>>To the Seaport in Boston, Massachusetts, everybody's buzzing. The Bruins are playing tonight. They tied it up. The Celtics tied it up last night. We're excited. We don't talk about the red Sox. Red Sox are getting struggles, but you know, we have good distractions. Paul goer is here. He's the president and chief executive officer at red hat and also a Boston fan of great to see, of course, you too. >>Nice to see you guys, you know, it's been a, it's been a while. >><laugh> yeah, we saw you, you know, online and virtually for a couple of years there, but, uh, you know, we've been doing red hat summit for a long, long time. Yeah, of course we were talking earlier. It's just much more intimate, kind of a VIP event, a few more suit jackets here. You know, I got my tie on, so I don't get too much grief. I usually get grief when I wear a tie of red hat summit, but it's a different format this year. Compressed keynotes. Your keynote was great. The new normal, sometimes we call it the new abnormal <laugh>, uh, but you know, how do you feel? >>I, I, I, I feel great. First of all, you know, combination today, virtual audience in, in house audience here today. I think we're gonna see a lot of that in the future. I mean, we designed the event around that and I, I think it, I think it played pretty well. Kudos, kudos to our team. You're right. It's, it's, it's a bit more intimate even the way it was set up, but those are the conversations we like having with our customers and our partners, much more partner centric, uh, as well right now, as well. >>You know, we were talking about, you know, hybrid cloud. It was kind of, you know, it was a good marketing term. And, but now it's, it's, it's become the real thing. I've said many times the, the definition of cloud is changing. It's expanding it's no, the cloud is no longer this remote set of services, you know, somewhere up in the cloud, it's on prem connecting to a cloud across clouds, out to the edge and you need capabilities that work everywhere. And that's what red hat did. The market's just swimming toward you. >>Yeah. I mean, you look at it, you know, I was, uh, you know, if you look at it, you know, the clouds are powerful unto themselves, right? The clouds are powerful unto themselves. They're all different. Right? And that that's, I mean, hardware vendors were, were similar, but different, same thing. You need that connective tissue across, across the whole thing. I mean, as I said, in my keynote today, I remember talking to some of our CIOs and customers 10 years ago and they said, we're going 90% of our apps tomorrow to one cloud. And we knew that wasn't practical because of course the clouds are built from Linux. So we knew it was underneath the hood and, and what's happened. It's taken some time, but as they started to get into that, they started to see, well, maybe one cloud's more suited for one application than the other, these apps. You may have to keep on premise, but you know, what really exploded at the, the, the hybrid thing, the edge. Now they're putting things at the edge, the GM announcement tell you, I know you're gonna talk to Francis. Yeah, yeah. Later. I mean, that's, that's a mini data center in, in every cloud, but that's still under the purview of the CIO, you know? So, so, so that's what hybrid's all about is tying all those pieces together, cuz it got more powerful, but it also more complex. >>You mentioned being the connective tissue, but we don't hear as much talk about multi-cloud seems to me, as we used to this conference has been all about hybrid cloud. You don't really talk about multi-cloud. How important is that to the red hat strategy, being that consistent layer? >>It's probably my mistake or our mistake because multi's more prevalent and more important than just hybrid alone. I mean, hybrid hybrid started from on-premise to one part to any one particular cloud. That was the, the first thought of hybrid. But as I said, as, as, as um, some of the cloud providers became so big, um, every, every CIO I talked to, whether they know whether they know it or not most do are in a multi environment for a whole bunch of reasons, right. You know, one cloud provider might be better in a different part of the world. And another one cloud provider might have a better service than another. Some just don't like to be stuck to one it's it's really hybrid multi. We should, we should train ourselves to every time we say hybrid, say multi, because that's really, that's really what it is. It, I think that happened overnight with, with Microsoft, you know, with Microsoft they've, they've, they've really grown over the last few years, so has Amazon for that matter. But Microsoft really coming up is what really made it a, a high, a multi world. >>Microsoft's remarkable what, what they're doing. But I, I, I have a different thinking on this. I, I heard Chuck Whitten last week at, at the Dell conference he used, he said used the phrase a multicloud, uh, by default versus multi-cloud by design. And I thought that was pretty interesting because I've said that multi-cloud is largely multi-vendor, you know? And so hybrid has implications, right? We, we bring and a shesh came up with a new term today. Metacloud I use Supercloud I like Metacloud better because something's happening, Paul. It feels like there's this layer abstraction layer that the underlying complexity is hidden. Think about OpenShift. Yeah. I could buy, I could get OpenShift for free. Yeah. I mean, I could, and I could cobble together and stitch together at 13, 15 dozens of different services and replicate, but I don't, I don't want that complexity. I want you to hide that complexity. I want, I'd rather spend money on your R and D than my engineering. So something's changing. It feels like >>You buy that. I totally buy that. I mean, you know, I, I, I'm gonna try to not make this sound like a marketing thing because it's not, not fair enough. Right. I mean, I'm engineer at heart, you know that, so, >>Okay. >>I really look to what we're trying to do is we're building a hybrid multi cloud. I mean that we, I look at us as a cloud provider spanning the hybrid multi all the way out to the edge world, but we don't have the data centers in the back. Like the cloud providers do in and by that is you're seeing our products being consumed more like cloud services because that's what our customers are demanding. Our, our products now can be bought out of the various marketplaces, et cetera. You're seeing different business models from us. So, uh, you're seeing, uh, committed spend, for example, like the cloud providers where a customer will buy so much up front and sort of just work it down. You're seeing different models on how they're consumed, consumption, based pricing. These, these are all things that came from the cloud providers and customers buying like that. >>They now want that across their entire environment. They don't wanna buy differently on premise or in one cloud and they don't wanna develop differently. They don't wanna operate differently. They don't wanna have to secure it differently. Security's the biggest thing with, with our, with our customers, because hybrid's powerful, but you no longer have the, you know, your security per perimeter, no longer the walls of your data center. You know, you're, you're responsible as a CIO. You're responsible for every app. Yeah. No matter where it's running, if that's the break in point, you're responsible for that. So that's why we've done things like, you know, we cried stack rocks. We've, we've built it into the container Kubernetes platform that spans those various footprints because you no longer can just do perimeter security because the perimeter is, is very, very, very large right now >>Diffuse. One of the thing on the multi-cloud hyper skills, I, I, red hat's never been defensive about public cloud. You, I think you look at the a hundred billion dollars a year in CapEx spend that's a gift to the industry. Not only the entire it industry, but, but the financial services companies and healthcare companies, they can build their own hybrid clouds. Metacloud super clouds taking advantage of that, but they still need that connective tissue. And that's where >>We products come in. We welcome our customers to go to, to the public cloud. Um, uh, look, it's it's. I said a long time ago, we said a long time it was gonna be a hybrid. Well, I should have said multi anybody said hybrid, then it's gonna be a hybrid world. It is. And it doesn't matter if it's a 20, 80, 80, 20, 40, 60, 60, 40. It's not gonna be a hundred percent anywhere. Yeah. And, and so in that, in that definition, it's a hybrid multi world. >>I wanna change the tune a little bit because I've been covering IBM for 40 years and seen a lot of acquisitions and see how they work. And usually it follows the same path. There's a commitment to leaving the acquire company alone. And then over time that fades, the company just becomes absorbed. Same thing with red hat. It seems like they're very much committed to, to, to leaving you alone. At least they said that upon the acquisition, have they followed through on that promise? >>I have to tell you IBM has followed through on every commitment they've made, made to us. I mean, I, I owe it, I owe a lot of it to Arvin. Um, he was the architect of the deal, right. Um, we've known each other for a long time. Um, he's a great guy. Um, he, uh, he, he believes in it. It's not, he's not just doing it that way because he thinks, um, something bad will happen if he doesn't, he's doing it that way. Cuz he believes in that our ecosystem is what made us. I mean, I mean, even here it's about the partners in the ecosystem. If you look at what made REL people think what made red hat as a company was support, right. Support's really important. Small piece of the value proposition life cycle supports certainly their life cycle a 10 year life cycle just came out of a, a, a customer conference asking about the life cycle and could we extend it to 15 years? You know? Um, the ecosystem is probably the most important part of, of, of, of the, of the overall value proposition. And Arvin knows in IBM knows that, you know, we have to be neutral to be able to do everything the same for all of our ecosystem partners. Some that are IBM's competitors, even. So, >>So we were noticing this morning, I mean, aside from a brief mention of power PC and the IBM logo during, at one point, there was no mention of IBM during the keynote sessions this morning. Is that intentional? Or is that just >>No, no, it it's, it's not intentional. I mean, I think that's part of, we have our strategy to drive and we're, we're driving our, our strategy. We, we, we IBM great partner. We look at them as a partner just as we do our, our many other partners and we won't, you know, we wouldn't, we wouldn't do something with our products, um, for I with IBM that we wouldn't offer to our, our entire ecosystem. >>But there is a difference now, right? I don't know these numbers. Exactly. You would know though, but, but pre 2019 acquisition red hat was just, I think north of 3 billion in revenue growing at maybe 12% a year. Something like that, AR I mean, we hear on the earnings calls, 21% growth. I think he's publicly said you're north of 5 billion or now I don't know how much of that consulting gets thrown in. IBM likes to, you know, IBM math, but still it's a much bigger business. And, and I wonder if you could share with us, obviously you can't dig into the numbers, but have you hired more people? I would imagine. I mean, sure. Like what's been different from that standpoint in terms of the accelerant to your >>Business. Yeah. We've been on the same hiring cycle percentage wise as, as we, we always were. I mean, I think the best way to characterize the relationship and where they've helped is, um, Arvin, Arvin will say, IBM can be opinionated on red hat, but not the other way around <laugh>. So, so what that, what that means is they had a lot of, they had, they had a container based Linux platform. Yeah, right, right. They, they had all their, they were their way of moving to the cloud was that when we came in, they actually stopped that. And they standardized on OpenShift across all of their products. We're now the vehicle that brings the blue software products to the hybrid cloud. We are that vehicle that does it. So I think that's, that's how, that's how they, they look about it. I mean, I know, I mean in IBM consulting, I know, I know they have a great relationship with Microsoft of course. >>Right. And so, so that's, that's how to really look at it. They they're opinionated on us where we not the other way around, but that, but they're a great partner. And even if we're at two separate companies, we'd do be doing all the same things we're doing with them. Now, what they do do for us can do for us is they open a lot of doors in many cases. I mean, IBM's been around for over a hundred years. So in many cases, they're in, in, in the C-suite, we, we may be in the C suite, but we may be one layer down, one, two layers down or something. They, they can, they help us get access. And I think that's been a, a part of the growth as well as is them talking into their, into, into their >>Constituents. Their consulting's one of the FA if not the fastest growing part of their business. So that's kind of the tip of the spear for application modernization, but enough on IBM you said something in your keynote. That was really interesting to me. You said, you, you, you didn't use the word hardware Renaissance, but that my interpretation was you're expecting the next, you know, several years to be a hardware Renaissance. We, we certainly have done relationships with arm. You mentioned Nvidia and Intel. Of course, you've had relationships with Intel for a long time. And we're seeing just the spate of new hardware developments, you know, does hardware matter? I'll ask you, >>Oh, oh, I mean the edge, as I said, you're gonna see hardware innovation out in the edge, software innovation as well. You know, the interesting part about the edge is that, you know, obviously remade red hat. What we did with REL was we did a lot of engineering work to make every hardware architecture when, when it was, when, when the world was just standalone servers, we made every hardware architecture just work out of the box. Right? And we did that in such, because with an open source development model. So embedded in our psyche, in our development processes is working upstream, bringing it downstream 10 years, support all of that kind of thing. So we lit up all that hardware. Now we go out to the edge, it's a whole new, different set of hardware innovation out at the edge. We know how to do that. >>We know how to, we know how to make hardware, innovation safe for the customer. And so we're bringing full circle and you have containers embedded in, in Linux and REL right now as well. So we're actually with the edge, bringing it all full circle back to what we've been doing for 20 plus years. Um, on, on the hardware side, even as a big part of the world, goes to containers and hybrid in, in multi-cloud. So that's why we're so excited about, about, about the edge, you know, opportunity here. That's, that's a big part of where hybrid's going. >>And when you guys talk about edge, I mean, I, I know a lot of companies will talk about edge in the context of your retail location. Okay. That's fine. That's cool. That's edge or telco that that's edge. But when you talk about, um, an in vehicle operating system, right. You know, that's to me the far edge, and that's where it gets really interesting, massive volumes, different architectures, both hardware and software. And a lot of the data may stay. Maybe it doesn't even get persisted. May maybe some comes back to the club, but that's a new >>Ballgame. Well, think about it, right? I mean, you, if you listen, I think you, right. My talk this morning, how many changes are made in the Linux kernel? Right? You're running in a car now, right? From a safety perspective. You wanna update that? I mean, look, Francis talked about it. You'll talk to Francis later as well. I mean, you know, how many, how many in, in your iPhone world Francis talked about this this morning, you know, they can, they can bring you a whole new world with software updates, the same in the car, but you have to do it in such a way that you still stay with the safety protocols. You're able to back things out, things like that. So it's open source, but getting raw upstream, open source and managing itself yourself, I just, I'm sorry. It takes a lot of experience to be able to be able to do those kinds of things. So it's secure, that's insecure. And that's what that's, what's exciting about it. You look at E the telco world look where the telco world came from in the telco world. It was a hardware stack from the hardware firmware operating system, every service, whether it was 9 1, 1 or 4, 1, 1 was its own stack. Yep. In the 4g, 3g, >>4g >>Virtualized. Now, now it's all software. Yeah. Now it's all software all the way out to the cell tower. So now, so, so now you see vendors out there, right? As an application, as a container based application, running out, running in the base of a cell tower, >>Cell tower is gonna be a little mini data >>Center. Yeah, exactly. Because we're in our time here asking quickly, because you've been at red hat a long time. You, you, you, uh, architected a lot of the reason they're successful is, is your responsibility. A lot of companies have tried to duplicate the red hat model, the, the service and support model. Nobody has succeeded. Do you think anybody ever will or will red hat continue to be a unicorn in that respect? >>No, I, I, I think, I think it will. I think open source is making it into all different parts of technology. Now I have to tell you the, the reason why we were able to do it is we stayed. We stayed true to our roots. We made a decision a long time ago that we weren't gonna put a line, say everything below the line was open and above the line was closed. Sometimes it's hard sometimes to get a differentiation with the competition, it can be hard, but we've stayed true to that. And I, to this day, I think that's the thing that's made us is never a confusion on if it's open or not. So that forces us to build our business models around that as well. But >>Do you have a differentiated strategy? Talk about that. What's your what's your differentiation >>Are, are, well, I mean, with the cloud, a differentiation is that common cloud platform across I differentiate strategy from an open source perspective is to, to sort make open source consumable. And, and it's even more important now because as Linux Linux is the base of everything, there's not enough skills out there. So even, even a container platform like open source op like OpenShift, could you build your own? Certainly. Could you keep it updated? Could you keep it updated without breaking all the applications on top? Do you have an ecosystem around it? It's all of those things. It was, it was the support, the, the, the hardening the 10 year to predictability the ecosystem. That was, that was, that is the secret. I mean, we even put the secret out as open. >>Yeah, <laugh> right. Free, like a puppy, as they say. All right, Paul, thanks so much for coming back in the cubes. Great to see you face to face. Nice to see you guys get it. All right. Keep it right there. Dave Valante for Paul Gill, you're watching the cubes coverage of red hat summit, 2022 from Boston. Be right back.

>>mhm Yes. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of red hat summit 2021 virtual john for your host of the cube paul. Comey who's here is the president and Ceo of red hat cube alumni paul always great to have you on the leader of red hat now President and Ceo for a year I think about a year now we're looking at under your belt now part of IBM Great to see you. >>You too nice to see you again john. >>So we've talked many times on the Cuban now. It's kind of playing out in real time. The software world with open source has gone mainstream. The conversation was moved to the cloud. Okay. People move to the cloud. Cloud native emerges devil has been around for a while. But now the conversation is cloud for the enterprise that uh, the enterprises, it's a tough world. You gotta, it's complicated is a lot of legacies, a lot of value and you want the new stuff. This is what the conversation is now. It's shifted to I got cloud, it's hybrid. What's your reaction to that? >>Well, you know, it really is, as you say, it's complicated but it's evolving and really, really fast. I mean, you know, I think you remember we've been here a lot. You first remember first software is eating the world and open source software is eating the world and in every every company is becoming a software company. All true. But that evolution continues today with the proliferation of hybrid cloud environments that it encompasses everything from data centers to public cloud services to And even now we'll talk about two for far flung edge deployments. That's all now part of the cloud. I mean, this is all what makes up hybrid. I like to always say that Hybrid really is the new data centers but now see IOS and I thi leaders, they need to reconsider what their roles, what their role here is and the way we look at it as every C I O now needs to be a cloud operator because because Hybrid is what their environment is now today, that used to be all in their data center. So, so but one of the things that really makes a choice even more important and its leaders, they need to address address specific needs, um not only to the organization, but even as they change and evolve in this because it really is a dynamic environment, I mean think about it and just mentioned edge and how how important that is to see IOS, we weren't even talking about that two years ago, so, so it's not a single answer here, right? Um and and you know, and there as there wasn't a single answer when it was all in one building or in one data center, but now it's even it's even more complex. So, so we need to enable really a new wave of cloud operators here with technologies that can be deployed as cloud services as well as on premises. We'll talk more about this too, but and we'll talk about this at the summit. We talked about the summit. Cloud services become really important, especially managed services, for example, because, um because we're so complex, Hybrid brings so much power, but it is complex. You know, see I need help with this, they need help managing this now. And so that's really where a lot of our focus is today. >>It's interesting you say there's no single answer. I would agree with you because it's now you can actually do a lot more customization with cloud and Hybrid. I think there's a general sentiment and directionally correct answer uh in the industry is that hybrid is operating model right? And I think you guys are have a whole division of SRS google talks about this all the time and their cloud site reliability engineers. And I think you're seeing that in educational institutions which we'll talk about. But I think this idea of cloud scale as the new I. T. And you mentioned hybrids, the new data center. You know, I don't I don't want to offend my I. T. Friends out there but they're kind of all realizing it to that if they don't understand how to operate cloud scale they'll be irrelevant and they're and they understand that their jobs are not just provisioning storage, networking and servers. Those are now involved in a hybrid architecture. And by the way, there is no one recipe, it's dependent. Each enterprise can have its own set of architecture based on their workloads again. So I buy that no single answer, but there is hybrid and I think it's pretty well understood. I mean, do you agree with that? >>I absolutely agree with that. But let's take a look at this, unpack it a little bit and take a look at the building blocks a bit. Right. Um, you know, we talked about open sources, what's driving all of this now and and everything we're talking about here is built in and around Lennox and it was only possible because Lennox was so open, so available and became so powerful, that's now been the platform that all this new innovation is built around. I mean, I oftentimes saying it's true the cloud just wouldn't be here had Lennox not only made its way in the open source development environment, but made its way into the enterprise to enable it to companies like us that make it enterprise ready, secure etcetera. So I think that's really an important thing to understand here. So when you talk about skills that the Ceos need certainly SRE skills, operation skills etcetera, but they also need Lennox skills and even open source skills. So so I think I think that's important, everything that's coming down the road and in in this space in um in his open source based and built in and around Lennox things like ai quantum computing, autonomous vehicles um IOT in and out to the edge all built on a foundation of Lennox and open source. So we see it in the enterprise everywhere now. I mean a survey where you know we did a survey out there and looking at the survey of C I O s out there, open is predominant out there, Lennox is predominant out there in hybrid is predominant and growing in a pretty big clip every year. >>You know, paul, I want to get your reaction to something because this may be kind of a dot connecting moment for me because I want to get your thoughts on this because it's a it's a pattern I'm seeing emerging now multiple times and usually I thought this was kind of a one off, but I'm starting to see it. So I'm going to get your thoughts on this. You guys have been super successful with open source in the enterprise, Super successful over decades, building a community and an ecosystem now with open source with with cloud Native, specifically we're seeing end users participating more in the, in the contribution starts out with the hyper scale ear's but now you're seeing kind of, I would call general purpose mainstream enterprises contributing projects, not necessarily their expertise, but they've been participating in taking the goodness of open source and bringing that into the into the enterprise. And I'll see you relying on you guys as well. But now I'm starting to see the pattern where people are relying on you to bring your community to them and they merge their communities with you guys and being kind of a steward there, is that a pattern? Do you see that evolving? Because we've heard that on multiple interviews on the cube where we've heard end users say we love the red hat ecosystem and and that seems to be more and more about they want to be building their ecosystem. So you did it for yourselves, you did it for the industry. Now, enterprises want this service is this is this is a pattern. And what's your reaction to that? >>It actually is a pattern because it's actually one of the reasons why innovation is moving so quickly right now. As I just said, you know, you know, this whole area here in infrastructure and cloud and development environments, Hybrid included. It's all built in and around, it's all built in and around Lennox. And in the past, what's happening and driven by open source development in the past? What happened? Look at the old fashioned way, right, where a company like us would be in a company, software company, not like us, but any old software company would be, you know, in their stovepipe, talking to their customers, getting their requirements and then bringing those requirements back from the customer base and then trying to work that into their products over time, get that back out to the customer to test it and try it, see it as it works. That's probably a five year, there's probably a five year journey, uh, for big, big requirements for big change requirements you look at now with, with actually end users now participating in upstream development, they're building their requirements into that upstream, which is our development environment. And actually that's what feeds our products. And so we've cut out the middleman, if you will completely in there now when we're building those requirements into our future future, R and D work in the upstream and then we bring that down into a product back into their enterprise for them to use in production. So it cuts out years of time for that innovation to get from concept to building to product, rising to production. And, and I think, you know, john, that's one of the big reasons why that customer base participating is one of the big reason why we're seeing innovation move like we've never seen it before in the enterprise, which in the old days that was a stodgy place where they didn't want to move very quickly. >>Yeah. And the values there, I mean I think it's clear what the pandemic we get to this towards the the last last talking track here. But with the pandemic I think it's pretty clear what the value is and the speed to capture opportunities and growth. I think enterprises are realizing that I think the power of the ecosystem is a modern error kind of phenomenon that is now kind of showing its its value and clearly in the market. And I think people who harness communities and ecosystems not try to fork them but connect them and and intersect them and kind of played well together. So again this is an open source concept kind of re imagined so we'll keep an eye on that. So, um, I want to get to your comment in the kino you mentioned at the top here every C I. O. It has to be a cloud operator. You know, that reminds me of all the start ups and all the positioning statements. Every company needs to be a software company. Every company needs to be a media company. Every company needs to be a cloud operator. So I love that. What does it mean? Because I could say, hey paul, I have a cloud, I'm working on amazon Or is that it? Or wait a minute as yours got, I got 365 over here and I'm using big query over here. I might use oracle over here. I mean all these multi cloud conversations. So it's confusing. >>Yeah. Tell me what, you know, if you look at, if you look at it, we were really one of the first ones to really build around this hybrid, this hybrid concept. And the reason why we were one of the first ones is because what amazon hit the world 12 or 13 years ago or something like that, They were the first major cloud and at the time that the narrative was that, you know, every application was going to move to the cloud tomorrow. Right well, because as I said earlier, everything is built in and in and around open source. And legs were very involved with our customers as they tried to move those first applications to the cloud. So certainly is a lot of value and moving to the cloud. But our customers quickly realized with us helping them, quickly realized that you know what, this is great. But not every application suited for the cloud, um for any cloud, but also I may want to run multiple clouds because another cloud provider over here might have a better service than this particular service over here, vice versa. And so we were in the middle of that. So one of the decisions we made seven or eight years ago, everything we did in that last seven or eight years around the portfolio, whether it was building products, m and A, requiring new companies etcetera, was built around that hybrid portfolio. What that means is a common platform that sits both on premise and bare metal machines. Virtual machines, private clouds on premise multiple clouds across out in the enterprise, that common platform so that developers, operators and the security people have that common platform to build with because just like in Lenox, even though they are all derived from open source upstream, they're all different, they all make different choices and how they're going to configure themselves. So, so that's important. So now we're out there with these multiple clouds. One of our surveys we see our Ceo is telling us now that You're using on the average I think six Clouds today and they expect that to go 8-10 over the next 3-5 years. So how are they going to manage that? How are they going to secure that? How are their operations people going to operate with that? That's all the things that we've been working on over the last number of years. So from that common platform, which is sort of the basis which is open shift to underneath it, which is the Linux operating system, which is well that spans all those footprints that I talked about. And then also you look at one of the latest trends is as well as manage services because what customers are now telling us is okay I got this environment that this hybrid is now my data center. It means I have to worry about these apps all in different footprints. Um I want to the platform to act like a cloud in some cases I don't want to I don't want to even manage it. I want you to manage it for me because for many reasons I want great up time. I might not have the right skill sets in my organization and so I want you to manage it. And so that's where we develop managed services and that's where we have set a large group today large SRE group that's providing those managed services no matter where our platform runs for our customers. Also, what I talked about in my keynote today is that to support that thought process is that we're doing a lot of research in this and so, you know, in a typical computer science research world, you know, of the past, you might really be into the into the real computer science of Research. We with the consortium around mass Open cloud with Boston University, MIT, Harvard Northeastern with this consortium. We're running mass Open cloud on all Red Hat with the collaboration of these universities and we're really focusing on the sorry aspect of it. What do we need to manage it? What do we need around automation to manage it? What do we need around ai to manage it? What do we need for tools to manage it? And and that's really goes down to what I fully briefly said in the beginning, is that every C I O N I T uh executive now has to be their own cloud operator because they are effectively stitching all these disparate clouds together. So that's where a big part of our focus takes us all the way from, You know, upstream development to product to the research we're doing for the next 3-5 plus years. >>You know, I gotta say the hybrid cloud is a new data center which is implying I T in the cloud operators with C X O S and C IOS is interesting because it's validated by Mckinsey's recent report that came out that said there's a trillion dollars of untapped value in one retrofitting existing infrastructure and operations and to net new operate use cases that the cloud enables. So there's clearly not two categories of value proposition that businesses are facing. One is, you know, kind of take care of the existing and then also bring in the new that cloud enables. So, you know, I think that's really key and that will drive the business leaders to foresight, if you will to be agile and adaptive to that. So so totally agree on that. I love this open cloud initiative, you mentioned the mass open cloud which I know is kind of like this beanpot for techies, um people who know what that means, uh it's in the boston area these institutions um this is gonna be a training and an opportunity to train the next generation and if you take it to the next level cybersecurity is also in this kind of net new novelty, interdisciplinary components. So you got engineering which is like devops engineering and then Systems Engineering and Computer Science intersecting together with kind of this data discipline. So it hits cybersecurity which is a board level conversation, it hits the new business model opportunities which is a driver, this is new, this is there's no pre existing curriculum. What how do you explain that to heads of the departments and the deans of these institutions saying, you know, it's an engineering thing. No, it's computer science thing. No, it's a it's a business school thing with data science. What's your what's your conversation with folks in the industry when you say this is a different thing? >>Uh you know, the university, you know, the university is getting, it was actually one of the one of the first things this is you know what you'll see. You know, I talked to uh dr bob Brown from President bu earlier in an interview and and this is what we imagined with them early on and even they brought those disciplines together now in in in what they call a harry institute, where to bring data, computer science engineering as you say. And now even operations, it's almost like, you know, systems engineering on steroids, it's a really big spanning system. And so so the universities are starting understand that's why these universities in the consortium, that's why we're working here. But also, you know, the industry's kind of learning it the hard way because now that they get some of their developers starting to move some of their application developments out into one, maybe two clouds and having the now they have to figure out how they're going to do all those things that we talked about, develop, secure operated. So they're they're learning the hard way that this is the new discipline because that's reality. I also think that, you know, as I said, like anything in tech, we always say this is going to happen tomorrow. I also think, like I said, when when cloud first came came out, everybody saying, I'm moving every app to the cloud tomorrow. We even had customers that bought into that said we're moving going full board but they realized once they get into it it wasn't practical. Don't take me wrong. Cloud brings a ton of value here but from a practical perspective it's going to be some apps and across many clouds and and so now they're having to deal with the I. T. Execs and the C. I. Was having to deal with it. So they're learning really fast because of the reality that they have to deal with. Now having said all that to it also brings up why managed services you're seeing so popular right now because as that's moving so fast they just don't have the skills necessary in many cases to really operate and run in this in this type of environment. It brings so much power but the skills aren't necessarily there in the industry. So that now you see the connection between the industry where we sit and even the university now looking at this whole big problem as as you put said, john, actually a new discipline, >>I think, I think, and I think one final leg of a three legged stool is at the business schools because when you think about systems programming, you mentioned that and you know, I love to go back in history and look at the history of operating systems. And you know, paul, we've talked us in the past and you guys know a lot about operating systems from a technology standpoint, it's not just about a productivity suite for a user or a department with the system, it's a company that needs to be programmed. So when people want to globally operate their business, that software defined this isn't now and this is now happening, right? So this the new leaders in these companies that want to run these global companies that scale operate them, just like operating the business not necessary. Operating a tech or shiny new toy, have to build the operating system for the business. To me, I think that's where I see IBM looking at cloud differently and saying, hey, this is an operating system under the covers for the business. The applications are multi fold from, you know, an application for productivity to an edge device, industrial or consumer user work at home. I mean it's a plethora of applications. What's your reaction to that? And you you see the same thing? >>I mean frankly, I think this is an area that a lot of the infrastructure players missed in the past. And I think I think this is what IBM saw with with bringing us in as well. It's all about the application. You know, I said earlier that, you know, we said every every company was a software company is true. And so that means the companies are running their businesses on these applications. So it's all about the app and I think a lot of infrastructure companies miss that. And and so with Hybrid now you have that ability to run the app wherever makes the most sense for for a whole host of reasons. And so now, but now comes the complexity of all of that. I think, I think IBM with bringing us in saw that that Hybrid was maybe as big, if not a bigger opportunity than cloud itself because of of the complexity it's going to bring, the power is going to bring. But also the complexity is gonna bring. I see that's why, you see Arvind, I sort of doubling down the entire IBM company on on hybrid services that are that are going to be really important here, that they provide these applications on top that are going to be really important, but that have to be architected in such a way that they can run in a hybrid environment. And finally there's all the infrastructure and tools and development pieces that we bring to the table. So, So yeah, I think I think are really, really understood that as they made the decision to bring redheaded, >>I talked to a center all the time and they also have this kind of concept of re factoring and reprogramming your business. Uh, it's not, it's a holistic view. This is kind of what's happening. So my final question for you is as as that becomes software enabled and programmed if you will with applications the business with many different subsystems in there. Um a lot of companies now looking at the light at the end of the tunnel with the pandemic and they're seeing vaccines coming out. Some say vaccines will be pretty much everywhere, everyone over 12 by the fall. So we're back to real life. There's gonna be a pullback of some projects on doubling down on others. As you as you mentioned, what are we doing? We're starting to see hybrid as companies come out of the pandemic, they're all jockeying to make sure that they have either done their work to re factor or reposition, reprogrammed their business and be set up for net new opportunities. >>What >>do you see as a growth model or growth opportunities for companies? You want to come out with a growth strategy out of the gate of the pandemic. What's your thoughts? >>Well, I mean, I think you have to plan for companies have to plan for your workforce to be anywhere, but in order to be anywhere in and to be productive, you need you need services like we're on right now for example, but you need the infrastructure to be able to do that. You need you need a way for your customers if you buy the fact that every company is a software company, you're running a business through their applications either way for your customers to be able to interact with you anywhere from where they are anywhere in a real time way. And so I think that's why from our perspective, things like that we're pushing a lot on the edge. Now, that's why you're seeing the hybrid cloud moved all the way out into the edge and you can see it in every vertical, you know, in the telco space. The edge means you gotta do, you have data and compute that needs to be done on the set on the cell tower in the manufacturing world. You have the state and compute that needs to be done on the factory floor, in the retail vertical. We see the edge really being significant in all these verticals, but but that edge is now extends that hybrid data center that we've been talking so much about. So even though you have all these edge devices way out there on the edge, it's a critical part of the business. So you have to have, your developers need need to be able to develop for it, you need to secure it, you need to and you need to operate it and manage it. So now, you know, in a very short period of time, hybrids taken on another dimension, bringing you out to all these points on the edge which is the same but slightly different in every vertical. Now comes complexity and that's why automation is so important because with that power comes complexity but it's going to take automation to keep it all running, >>paul. Great insight. Thanks for coming on the cube. Open innovation out in the open with with you guys again continue. And the focus of the evolution of software and the cloud with enterprise I. T. Clearly a lot of innovation and your contribution to academia and the mass open cloud and all the open cloud initiatives, phenomenal. The world's going. Open source and continues and continues. Doesn't stop. The operating system of businesses is coming and you guys are well positioned. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks again john. Always a pleasure. >>Okay paul, Cormier, President Ceo of Red Hat here on the Cuban, john for your host. Thanks for watching. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm mm.

>> From around the globe its theCUBE with digital coverage of Red Hat Summit 2020, brought to you by Red Hat. >> Hi I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's coverage of a Red Hat Summit 2020. Of course this year the event is virtual. We're bringing all the people on theCUBE from where they are and really happy to bring back to the program, one of our CUBE alumni, Paul Cormier, who is the president and CEO of Red Hat. Of course the keynote and you and I spoke ahead of the show. Paul great to see you and thanks so much for joining us. >> My pleasure, always great to see you Stu. My pleasure. >> All right, so Paul lots have changed since last time we got together for summit. One things stayed the same though. So, you know, the big theme, I heard in your keynote, you talked about open hybrid cloud of course. We've been talking about cloud for years when you ran the product theme, you know, making Red Hat go everywhere is something that we've watched, you know, that move. Is anything different when you're talking to customers, when you're talking to your, the product themes, you think about the times were in, why is open hybrid cloud not a buzzword but hugely important in the times were facing? >> Because the big premise to open hybrid cloud is that customers, cloud has become part of people's infrastructure. I've seen very few if any true enterprise customers that are moving everything, every app to one cloud. And so I think what people really realized once they started implementing clouds, part of their infrastructure was that you going to always have applications that are running bare metal. Some are virtual machine maybe on top of VMware it might been a private cloud, and not many people saying you know what the public clouds are all so different from each other I might want to run one application for whatever reason in one in a different one or another I think they started to realize the actual operational cost to that, the security cost of that and even more mobility the development cost of that from the application perspective and now having five silos up there now how that's so costly so now our whole premise since the beginning of open hybrid cloud has been to give you that level playing field to have those things all the same no matter where the application wants whether experimental virtual machine private multiple public cloud and so in the long run as customers start to start to really go to cloud first application development and they can still manage that under one platform in a common way but at the same time managed develop secure it but at the same time they can manage develop and secure their legacy applications that are also on linux as well in the same way so I think in the long run it really brings it together and saves money and efficiency in those areas. >> Yeah it's I always loved I look over time we have certain words that we think we know what they mean and then they mature over time let's just say we'll start with the first piece of what you're talking about open we live through those of us that have been through that the really ascendancy of open-source is in the early days open was free and we joke it was free like puppies >> Yeah. but today open source of course is very prevalent we see it all over the place but give from an open hybrid cloud why open is important today and what customers should think, how do customers think about that today? >> There's probably two most misunderstood things with open so first thing is that open source is a development model, first of all. I always say it's a verb not a noun, I even say well think internally and externally. We're not an open source company, we're an enterprise software company with an open source development model. So you think about that, that's what that's really important. Why is the open source development model so important? It's important because everyone has the same opportunity in terms of the features of within the code everyone has the same opportunity to contribute. The best technology wins that's how it works in the upstream community is it's not a technology driven by one company that may have a one company agenda. It's really a development process that allows the best technology to win and I think that's one of the main things and one of the main reasons why you see all the innovation frankly in the last five years around infrastructure and development, associated pieces and tools around that of being in and around Linux because Linux was available, it was powerful, it was open when people wanted to develop for when people wanted to develop kubernetes for example, they had to make changes to the Linux kernel in order to do that it did work because they could and so those are the things that make it really important as a development model and I think those are the things that get confused a lot. I think the other things that get confuses a lot of people think that, "hey if I have this great technology and I just open-source is that it'll all just work, everyone will come, now that's not the case. The things that really, the projects that really succeed of an open-source perspective are the problems that are common and horizontal across a big group of people so they're trying to solve similar problems and that's one of the things that we found as you go further up the stack the length typically the less community is involved it's the horizontal layers where you need whether you're in banking or retail or telco or whatever they're all the same, those are the pieces where open-source really fits well. >> Alright so the second piece you talk about hybrid I think back to the early days Paul when cloud was first defined and we talked about public and private cloud we had discussions of hybrid cloud and multi clouds and the concern that I have is it was very much an infrastructure discussion and it was pieces and the vision that we always have is, were customers to actually get value is, the total solution needs to be more valuable than the sum of its parts. So it's really about hybrid applications about where my data lives, so do you agree with some of those things I'm saying how does Red Hat look at it and from your team i do get lots of the application and app dev discussion which I always find even more meaningful than arguing over ontologies of how you build your cloud. >> Everything you said is all about the application if you look at just where we started with linux just along what did Linux bring to the enterprise when we first started rally me you and I talked about this earlier that was the thing that really opened things up. The enterprise's started buying Linux they right they started buying Linux for Linux for $29.95 at the book stores but when I first came on board we talked to some of the banking customers in there, they said well we love this technology but every time you guys change a release on my applications breaker when I get new hardware it doesn't work etc. So it's all about the application Linux is better about that all the time from the beginning of time what hybrid it really means here, is that I can run that seamlessly across wherever that footprint is going to live and so I think that's also one of the things that gets confused a bit. When the cloud first started, the cloud vendors were telling people that every application was going to move to one cloud tomorrow right? We knew that was not practical, that's the other thing from open-source developers, we look at a practical perspective, we look back in 2007 I just looked at just to prepare for the note I just put up to the company. Back in 2007 at the summit I talked about any application anywhere anytime. That's really the essence of what hybrid is here, so what we found here is what every application is impractical for every application to move to one cloud and so cloud is powerful but it's become part of people's development and operations and security environment so now as we stitch that in may make that common for those three things for the operation security in development more application development world that's where the power is. So I see the day where application developers and application users won't know or care what platform the back-end day is coming from for whatever applications they're writing, they shouldn't care that should just happen seamlessly under the covers but having said that, that complicates thing and that's why management needs to be retooled with it as well. Sorry on that but I could talk about that for three days right? >> Yeah so as an industry we kind of argue about these and everybody feels that they understand the way the future should look. So Paul for a number of years it was, "we're going to build this stack "and let's have the exact same stack here and there." There were some of the big iron companies that did that a few years ago now you see some of your public cloud partners saying, "we can give you that same experience "that same hardware all the way "down to the chip level things are going to be the same." When I look at software companies, there's two that come to mind to live across dispersed environments. One is very much from a virtualization standpoint they design themselves to live on any hardware out there. Red Hat has a slightly different way of looking at things, so what's your take on kind of the stack and why is hybrid in that hybrid cloud model that you're building probably looks and sounds and feels different then I think almost anybody else out there? >> Well the cloud guys, they all have similar technologies underneath I mean most of it not all of its based on Linux but they're all different I mean remember the UNIX days I'm old enough to remember the UNIX day. That was the goal back then but like each hardware vendor did each cloud vendor is now taking that Linux or the Associated pieces with it and they have to make their changes to adapt to their environment and some of those changes don't allow for applications to be portable outside that environment, that's exactly like the OEM world of the past and so I hope some people hate it when I say this to make this a comparison but I really look at the cloud guys as a mainframe and certainly mainframe as and still does bring a ton of value to certain customer base and so if you're going to keep your application in that one place, a mainframe will all on you mainframe mentality will always stitch it to bet together better but that's not the reality of what customers are trying to do out there. So I really think you have to look at it that way it's not that much different in concept anyways to the OEM days whether from when they started running Linux and the thing that Red Hat's done that some of the others haven't for VMware for example, VMware they have no pieces that touch the application I mean they have some now they had photon, they had some of the other pieces that sort of tried to touch the application but at the end of the day we always concentrated in Linux and especially from a Red Hat perspective of keeping the environment the same, both from an application perspective and from a hardware perspective. Certainly when an application runs in the cloud, we don't have to worry about the hardware anymore but we still have to worry about the application and businesses are all about the application and so we always took that tack from both sides of that. I think that's one of VMware's weaknesses frankly is that applications don't run on hypervisors, they run on operating systems including when I say operating systems I mean containers because that is a Linux operating system. >> Yeah Paul a lot of good points you brought up there and it's interesting the mainframe analogy in the early days of cloud there were some that would throw stones and saying right you're rebuilding the mainframe and you're going to be locked in, this is going to be an environment so I'd love to get your thought you think about what's happening in application development, the rise of is you talked about containers and kubernetes serverless is out there there's that, "we want to enable the application developers but we don't want to get locked into some platform there. Talk about red-hat's role how your products are helping the ship, help customers make sure that they can take advantage of some of these new ways of building, maintaining and changing without being stuck on any specific platform or technology >> Well the first place, I believe I'm sure I will be corrected on this but we really are the only company that I can think of at this moment that is a hundred percent open source. Everything we do when our products go is open source based goes back upstream to the community for everyone to take advantage of so that's the first thing. I mean the second thing we do is one of the big fallacies is, open source has become so popular that people are confusing upstream projects with downstream products and so for us I'll use us as an example, I'll use Linux and I'll use kubernetes as an example, the Linux kernel we all built from the Linux kernel us, Susa, Ubuntu we all build from the Linux kernel but at the end of the day we all make choices when we bring that upstream work down to become a product. In our case we go upstream to rel, we go from fedora to sent us to rel. We all make choices, which file systems were going to package, what development environment we're going to to package, what packages werre gonna package and so when we get down to what's get deployed in the enterprise, those choices in what makes the difference of why by rel is slightly different than SUSE Linux which is slightly different than Canonical's upon - but they're all come from the same heritage, the same as the case with kubernetes is this sort of fallacy that kubernetes is the last time I checked it was 127 different kubernetes vendors out there. They're all just going to magically work together yes they all come from the same place but we have to touch the users face, we have to touch the kernel and so there how do you line that up in the life cycle of what the customers get is going to be different. We might be able to take different pieces from different from those 127, make it work at one point but the first time any of us makes a change, it's not coordinated with the other side, it's probably going to break. Anyone our life cycles go out 10 plus years and so engineering that altogether is something that makes it all work together as you upgrade whether it be hardware or your applications and so some people confuse that with not being old till 100 percent open. When we find a bug in rel, rel that's been out there for five years maybe we give that fix back to the upstream community that's open it's out there and so I think that's the part that this doesn't become so accepted now and so much part of the mainstream now that we very much confused projects with products and so that's one of the biggest confusion points out there. >> Yeah really good points there Paul. So when I think about some of the things we've heard over the years is in the original days it was, "Oh well public hug Paul? I'm not going to need rel anymore they've got Linux then kubernetes has come along and Red Hat's had a really strong position but you look at it and you say, "Okay well if I'm most customers, "if I'm doing Amazon, "if I'm doing Google, "if I'm doing Microsoft, "I'm probably going to end up using some of their native services that they've got built-in. Talk about how the role of Red Hat kind of continues to change and you live in this multi cloud environment and i think it's kind of that intersection that you were talking about, open and compatibility as opposed to. You're not saying that Red Hat's going to conquer the world and take down all the other options >> Well cloud providers bring a ton of value. I mean the users have to be smart on how and when they use that value. If you truly are going to be a hundred percent of your applications in one public cloud, then you probably will get the best solution from that one public cloud. Serverless is a great example if you're an Amazon and you spin up via services serverless that container that gets spun up is never going to run outside that Club, if that's okay with you that's okay with you. (Voice scrambles) The we've gone about this is as I said to give you that seamless environment all the way across. If you want to run just containers, (voice scrambles) on one particular cloud vendor and you want it under their kubernetes and it's never going to run in any other place, that's okay too but if you're going to have an environment with applications that are in multiple cloud vendors infrastructure you're even on your own, you're now going to have to spin up these different silos of that technology even though the technology as the same heritage. So that's a huge operational and development cost as you grow bigger and able to order to do that and so our set a strategy is very simple, it's give the developers operations and security people that common environment to work across and over time (voice scrambles) they shouldn't care where the services are coming from. It should just all work and that's why you seen things like automation being so important now. I mean our nation is our biggest growing business with ansible right now and part of the reason is as people spread out to a container based environment applications that may now spread across those different footprints maybe you want to have your front (voice scrambles) we have one of the rel customers in Europe that has the front facing customer side of their ticket, their ticketing system up in the public cloud and they've got the backend financial transaction database pieces that click credit cards behind their firewall, that's really one application spread across containers, if you have do you want to have to manage the front end of that with one kubernetes and the backend of that were the different kubernetes? Probably not and so that's really what we bring to the table as we've really grown in with this new technology. >> Alright, so final question I have for you Paul I'm actually going to get away a little bit from your background on the product piece you have to talk a little bit about just red hat going forward. So you talked about, we know for many years red hat has been much more than the Linux piece you talk about automation I've got some great interviews this week talking about some of the the latest in application development, lots of open source projects and so many open source projects (laughing) nobody can keep them all straight there. So as customers look at strategic partnerships, what is the role of red hat and with now being under IBM Jim white her steps over to become president there Arvind of course had a long relationship and it was the architect behind the Red Hat acquisition what's the same and what's different as we think about Red Hat 2020 under your leadership? >> I think it's a lot of the same I mean I think the the difference becomes in the world we're in right now is sort of how we can help our customers come out of back and back into re-entry right and so how that's going to to be different than the past (voice scrambles) we're working through that with many of our customers and we think we can be a big help here because we run their business and today where they run their business over the platforms on their business and that's not going to go away for them and in fact if anything that's going to get even more critical for them because they've got to get more automation to get just more efficiency out of it so in terms of what we do and as a company that's not going to change at all I mean we've been on this path that we're on for a long time. I stand up in front of our sales kickoffs every year is hearing and virtual as well and I say, "we'll to talk to you about the strategy." Guess what? It hasn't changed much from last year and that's a good thing because these technology rollouts are multi-year rollouts, so we're going to continue on that I mean the other thing too is, our customers are seeing moving many more of their work close to the Linux environment and so I think we can help them expand that as well and I think from an IBM perspective (voice scrambles) one of the big premises here from our perspective is to help us scale because they're in the process of helping their customers move to this next generation architectures and at the same time be able support the current architectures and that's what we do well and so they can just help us get to places that we just wouldn't have had the time and the resources maybe to get there get on our own so we can expand that footprint even more quickly with IBM. So that's the focus right now is to really help our customers move to the next phase of this in terms of re-entry >> Yeah as I've heard you and many other Red Hatters say Red Hat is still Red Hat and definitely it's something that we can see loud and clear at Red Hat summit 2020. Thank you so much Paul. >> Thank you Stu nice to see you again. >> All right lots of coverage from Red Hat summit 2020 be sure to check out the cube net for the whole back catalogue that we have of Paul their customers, there their partners and thank you for so watching the queue [Music]

if Studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world this is a cute conversation hi I'm Stu minuteman and welcome to a special cube conversation we've been talking to leaders around the industry about how they are helping their organizations and their customers in these challenging time with Kovac 19 really happy to bring back to the program one of our cube alumni he also has a new title Paul Cormier is now the president and CEO of Red Hat Paul it is great to see you we live geographically not too far apart normally we would be getting together person for summit of course that event happening digitally but thanks so much for joining us all right so Paul you have you know storied history at Red Hat you know I've sat through many keynotes where you walk through the product in portfolio looked at the acquisitions looked at the strategic direction moves taking the new job as CEO is a big move in regular times of course we're not in regular times we're in rather unique times here so let's start there what does it mean about coming into this new role in the times that we are facing you know you know as I see it considering the times here I think it's probably one of the biggest decisions I have made in my career to take on this new job only because don't as you know Stu talked a lot I've been here from certainly the beginning of our move to the enterprise in 19 years I was played 120 or so and and I think I actually think that we brought such a big value our customers I think that customers actually going to see even more value as we come out of this because than they have in the past for one thing with the combination of IBM were able to reach a wider set of customers out there if we can bring into the Linux world where all the innovations happening so I think I think our customers we've treated this our product line is an enterprise-grade product line since the beginning since day one we're literally helping our customers eat their businesses running at this point on our product lines because of you know everything we've done the victim enterprise-class you know so Paul some previous you know challenges in my my career you talk about whether financial you know whether it is natural disasters or 9/11 you know the technical industry needs to kind of rally together but you know one of the things that is different about this is the impact that has on every employee I wasn't surprised to see that the letter that you sent out to all of the associates was you know posted on the Red Hat site it didn't need to be leaked or anything like that so you know the transparency always is appreciated but bring us inside a little bit the organization you know how are you you know helping your employees and making sure that they can deal with all the personal things that they need to deal with while still being there for your customers your I mean well first of all first of all one of the things is you know we're sort of used to working remotely when the need arises even full-time for that case a big percentage of our associates are work remotely 1% of the time we've always had the philosophy in that we especially in engineering where we go after the best possible talent and the unique part of being 100 percent open-source focus is that our engineers know the other engineers that are working in our communities whether they know them better met them face to face they certainly know them very well on a professional level so a lot of our people were used to working remotely the other thing the other thing is most of Red Hat is type A personality type people so that's that's a good thing on some days and may be a tough thing on other days but but what that means is everybody works from home at some period whether it's you know they go to the office all day and wake up at midnight and do some more or that's Saturday or Sunday we're all pretty much you know set up to do that so our IT department has been you know they've been fabulous through this you know we've had you know a gazillion more hours of both VPN and video hours and it's just all work but they've had a great test bed for all these years so from from that standpoint from that technical standpoint worked very well from from the employee standpoint we've really we've really picked up the video All Hands videoconferencing from once a quarter every two weeks and so you know I had an All Hands meeting two days ago three days ago when I was announced on my new role and I committed to them we're gonna we're gonna have it all hands every two weeks come in talk we'll give you the updates etc so I think that's one thing you can't over communicate that I like this and I think the third thing that my I guess that's to say my former products for now but you know I still I still love those guys buying my form proved the products group they actually had a very great idea they're holding virtual office hours for their for their colleagues in the field once a week and we're actually holding once in the morning once later at night for the people in asia-pacific actual hours with a product managers in the engineers except for getting on videoconference to integrate and in talk with the folks out in the field about what we're doing in the products and in what's going on and what's upcoming and hear their issues as well I think this serves as two things the first thing that serves a certainly it keeps people engaged but secondly you know our people love the technology and so to some extent with everything going on around kovin and how serious it is in every country it almost gives our our people almost an escape from that to really spend an hour or two a day on this and just really have conversations with each other about the business and the products and the technology so that's become a really big hit inside as well yeah you know definitely there are some things that just get amplified you talked about you know we're used to being able to be on or join meetings you know regardless of the time of day amateur your team plenty of blue jeans and zoom meetings before this but it has taken a slightly different tone now with you know you've now got everybody at home you know and managing you know other personal relationships and things that are happening on the outside you you are still holding red hat summit at the end of April you think there's there's a real strong you know push from your team to you know balance and make sure that you're there for your customers but it's it's not going to be as much of the hoopla there's not that you know the slag and the announcements that are going on why is it important to still bring the community together and you know meet with your partners and customers you know rather than push it off to later this year you know it's a great question you know I said anyone know that when I stand up on stage for my keynote at the summit every year even though I'm so many year I don't know me son it's 1314 something like that even when even it's such a rush because we really do stand there you know Jim talked about this on our internal handoff where he said you know remember Paul and I on a ballroom with one of the first summits at some hotel we look behind the curtain and I said to him there's 300 people out there and you know last year in Boston I looked out and said wow there's 10,000 people here it's amazing so it really started as a as a way to really talk to an interact with both our customers and our community as well but it turned into a celebration and not just a celebration of internal RedHat people a celebration of the whole ecosystem and partners and customers and upstream people of how far open-source and linux has come and we didn't think that celebration part this year was really appropriate considering where we were but but we all still have a job to do we're all doing him remotely and as I said we're running made our customers business so we felt it was really important to put this out there to have our customers understand where we're going in the coming year the new some of the new products that we have coming and how we can help them and so that's really more of the tone this year and we feel that still important we all have a big job right now in coming out of this we're even going to have bigger jobs and how we re-entry into this and balance that so that's really the focus this year how we can continue to help with the technology we brought to the enterprise for the last 19 years yeah Paul the last question I have for you you know I think back to summit last year Satya Nadella was on stage Jenny Jenny Rometty was up on stage of course Red Hat you know tightly tied into you know abroad community and ecosystem network out there so as the leader of Red Hat you know how are you you know in contact and working with you know the communities and the partner ecosystem to both manage through and be ready for the other side of today I mean in one regard especially with many it's almost more at this point I mean that the partners in the ecosystems are really important many of the partners especially the smaller partners they look to us for leadership so so we still have communication with them and partly the summit is is for them as well well some of the larger partners like that you mentioned Microsoft a certainly IBM and an Amazon and Google and others we actually communicate almost more now that we're all working from home because as I said earlier the same goes outside as it does in inside you just can't and over communicate this environment and you know as you know sue the tech industry looks like this giant industry but it really is kind of a small industry and a lot of us know each other from for many years and so that communication is going on we're comparing notes actually in many cases we're comparing notes maybe even more than we might have in the past well no what are you guys doing at your company the plan for this is and I've actually seen some of the partners who focus on proprietary technologies even become a more bit more open on those discussions now so I think maybe that could be if there's any good outcome of this that could be one of the outcomes that's slightly positive all right well Paul thank you so much for the update congratulations on your new role we absolutely are looking forward to the summit at the end of the month thanks again always great to see you soon thanks very much all right be sure to check out the cube dotnet where you can see the the preview of Red Hat summit as well as the guests that we will have there we will have Paul Stephanie Matt Hicks lots of the Red Hat executives their customers and partners I'm Stu minimun and thank you for watching the cube [Music]

why from Boston Massachusetts it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2019 watch you bye Red Hat well good morning welcome back to our live coverage here in Boston with the BCC and we're at Red Hat summit 2019 you're watching exclusive coverage here on the cube this is day three of three great days here at the summit's two minimun John wall's and we're joined now by Paul Cormier who's the president of products and technologies at Red Hat good morning Paul morning how are you doing I'm doing great great so are we a wonderful job on the on the keynote stage yesterday and we're gonna jump into that a little bit but I wanted to run something by you here a great man once said every great achievement begins with a bold goal I heard that I'm looking at that man yeah so one of the many statements that I thought really jumped out yesterday let's talk about that in terms of just the Red Hat philosophy what's happened with rl8 where you've gone with openshift for and just how that is embedded in your mind to how red hat goes about its business well you know we've we've we've been in the enterprise space for 17 plus years and prior to that red had you know we were basically through the retail through the retail channel but first and foremost Red Hat started as an open source company that's where they started not as an enterprise company once we decided with the bold goal that we're gonna get this into the enterprise that's what we really set you know really transformed into what you've maybe heard before from out of my mouth is where we're we're not an open source company although everything we do is open source for an enterprise software company with an open source development model that was kind of the beginning of the first bold goal let's get Linux to the enterprise and so that's sort of how we've thought about it from day one is let's take it one step at a time you know as I said get Linux in the enterprise make make rel the operating system in the enterprise now let's take on virtualization versus n then KVM and then as that all happens so much innovation happened around Linux that all these other pieces came you know Hadoop kubernetes all the other pieces so we just kept growing with that because it's all intertwined with Linux that's one step at a time so Paul before we get off this place I want you to put a fine point on it for our audience because you look out there you know open source is not a community it's lots of communities and it's not you know one thing it's many things out there and today people will look at there's certain companies how do I create IP and monetize what we're doing and you know where the project and the company are you know sometimes intertwined and licensing models changing you know Red Hat has a very simple philosophy on it and it's not something that's necessarily easily replicatable yeah I mean there's simple simple philosophy is it so it's it's upstream first that that's that's our philosophy yes we are a business and certainly making our products successful is is is important number number number one goal number zero goal before that is make the project successful our products can't be successful unless we're we're built on a successful project and it's not something that we even think about because it's just ingrained it's it's it's in our DNA so I mean I'll give you examples you know even kubernetes we didn't start the project Google started the project but we knew in order if we were going to incorporate that in a big way into our products that we had to be prominent in the community so that's what we did first and then it rolled out into the products it's just ingrained it's in the DNA yeah so let's talk a little bit about kubernetes openshift you've now got over a thousand customers congratulations on that and openshift for we spent a bunch of time talking with the team but let's start a little bit higher level because you know there's dozens of you know kubernetes options out there people look at is there interoperability between them you know in the early days customers would just spin their own pieces and on you know today every cloud provider has at least one option if not multiple options and there's all the independent how does this play out you know where are we along the maturity and how do all these pieces fit together or do they I mean if you look if you look at kubernetes I mean the thing here's the the good news the good news is open source has become so prominent in in everywhere we wear now ourselves included we make this mistake ourselves we've confused projects with products so kubernetes is a project it's a development project and we all talk about that like it's a product the same it's the same thing with Linux so I'll give you an example with the Linux kernel where all you know all the commercial vendors and everyone else is in that same upstream development tree with the Linux kernel but when the commercial guys like ourselves when we go to build a product we make choices of which file systems we're going to support which installers we're going to support you know what we're gonna do for management what we're gonna support for storage and for many reasons we all make different decisions so that's why at the end of the day when we come down to our products even though they're all completely open you know rel is different from Susu which is different from a bun too which is different from all the others it's the same exact thing with kubernetes we all develop here but now we bring that down into a platform like open shift that kubernetes touches userspace api's it such as kernel a api's and so unless you you integrate those and they all move forward in the lifecycle of that platform at the same time we get out of sync with each other and that's one of the reasons why it's a product and they don't necessarily work across each other with you know with all the other products it's the same exact principle that made rel and at the same exact principle how linux works right so what advice do you give to customers is how they look at this because they're like oh wait there's now azure an open shift this jointly offered solution but do I use that or Duty as the native you know aks solution out there you've got partnership to the AWS you know where does open shift versus anthos on google fit it's it definitely is a little bit fragmented well the other thing that's happened around the cloud one of the things that happened in early in the cloud a lot of the cloud providers said every applications going to the cloud tomorrow I think that was ten years ago and the last number I thought sorry we're about 20 percent there and so and that's great we think that's great but customers still have on-premise applications and they have a running on-premise either bare metal virtual machine they have their own private clouds in many cases and now they want to go across clouds every customer I talked to and it's not just for lock-in that's definitely an issue they want to go across clouds because this cloud provider might have a better service here than that cloud provider and vice versa so what customers want to do is they want one common operating environment both of the applications developer in the operators they can't afford to have five different silos because just like the example I used with Linux distributions being different every one of these kubernetes distributions is different and so anthos for example if you're gonna have all your applications including bare metal applications on Google Linux then that's good because your operators have one operating environment you developers have one development environment but that's impractical and that's why that's that's not gonna work I mean the reason why I think Microsoft is one of our best partners here is they understand this which is why they've embraced openshift so so deeply even though they have aks in their stable and the reason why I think they understand this is because they like us have been in the enterprise space for a long time this is how enterprise computing works and I think that's the model that our customers they don't have no choice to deploy they just can't afford to have five different you know operating environments it's like the UNIX days it's like the UNIX days all over again and you know when you had one vertical stack and you know customers started to roll out a common fact that's why Rell succeeded because we gave them that commonality and they couldn't afford five different silos to try to manage and develop their applications to you know is there a different rhythm or unique rhythm to the open source community in terms of development in terms of new products that might be a little different than then old older models because you know if I'm saying if I if there's an interest that focuses maybe in one area and the interests of ER you know or momentum shifts over to a different direction and and maybe this standard or this old way kind of loses a little bit of its impetus or its force I mean what that creates decision challenges on customer sign but but absolutely and and that's why as they said even with kubernetes we didn't jump in full force exactly right away you know we sort of we sort of worked in many of it with many container orchestration technologies out there most of which besides kubernetes are gone by the wayside a bit now and you know we sort of sort of look at that and see where this plays out well we get involved but we also try to make make the best technical decision as well kubernetes now it's got way too much momentum in in in the in with open source because it's got so much momentum that's where the innovation is happening and at the end of the day customers even though they have confused many projects with products they still want they still want the right technology to solve their business business problems right and so cuckoo Bernays has so much momentum around it that's where the innovation is happening so that's that's that's the plot that's the big part of the platform right now and so I think that's the other thing I think that a lot of people that try to jump into this space miss is if you're gonna base your enterprise product on an upstream project you better have good influence in that upstream project because when your customers ask you to address an issue or or take it in a direction or help take it in the direction if you don't have that influence you can't satisfy your customers so we learned very very early on that upstream is is not a bolt-on for us it's an integral part that starts even before the product starts so Paul I've heard many people often call Red Hat the Switzerland of IT you know being where you sit in the community and you know for years at this show we've interviewed you know all of the hardware players and everything like that sorry sorry I'm taking important calls it's no worries you know live audience can wait we'll show you the clip of John Cleese when we got interrupted on a program once we won't think was my admin telling me I needed to come here you're good but so you know with Red Hat starting as that as that Switzerland when I look at the multi cloud world its you've got interesting combination you know Satya Nadella up on stage is not something that we would have thought of right five years ago so you know VMware supporting OpenShift announced today is not something that many people will look at and be like oh geez you know that seems surprising to me because you know we have you know fights over virtualization or various piece of the stack what do you see in kind of the software and multi cloud world today that's maybe a little different than it was five or ten years ago I think I mean to VMware's credit they're trying to satisfy their customers and their customers are saying I want OpenShift and so we we work with trying to satisfy our customers to the Microsoft arrangement I mean as you guys probably well know we weren't the best of friends you know five six seven eight years ago and I think Satya said it on stage and they our customers got us together literally we had a set of big customers that almost took us in a room and said you guys need to talk and and frankly I think they're one of our best partners right now I'm not sure it could have happened without Satya but they're one of our best partners because we're both interested in satisfying our customers in and as I said I think Microsoft really understands the enterprise world and that's why we're going in the common direction we almost when we get in the room with their engineers we almost complete each other's sentences of you know when we start talking about what we need to do you know there's been an announcement early in the week ahead of a global economic study done IDC came up with this huge number right 10 trillion dollar impact that Linux is having globally speaking just if you would just curious about your perspective on that what kind of a statement that is and and the dollar values that are achieved or the incremental values that are achieved in terms of applying these technology I think it's a couple things I think I think it's a statement that this is the innovation most so open-source is the innovation model going forward period end of story full stop and I think as I said in my keynote yesterday you know leading up to the the biggest acquisition ever for a software company not an open-source software coming a software company that happened to be an open-source software company I don't think there's any doubt that that open source has one here here today it and it's because of the pace of innovation I mean yes I mean we've been at rel for 17 plus years well we probably spent the first third or so without 17 plus years trying to convince the world that Linux was secure and it was stable and it was ready for the enterprise once we got through that hurdle it was just off to the races from there and kubernetes what you know I said yesterday containers came on the scene although they've been here technically for a long time they came on the scene in 14 herba Nettie's in 15 it's only 2019 it's really not that far downstream where were as you said we've got a thousand commercial customers and the keynote this morning talking about some of the use cases that we're solving with with OpenShift I mean Boston Children's Hospital is just unbelievable of what they can do in a matter of a week that used to take them a matter of a month to do right that's because of the innovation model we have dr. Ellen Grant on yesterday by the way so if you haven't watched that yet go back to the cube net and check that interview out yeah I mean fascinating kind of customer conversation we've had about transformation but want to get your take on the only constant in our industry which is change I wrote right after the the announcement of the acquisition and meeting with your changes Red Hat the one thing that they've actually built themselves for is to deal with the massive amounts of change you know you could tell better than more how fast the Linux kernel is changing you know a third of the codes changed in the last two years and kubernetes is actually not as many lines of code as Linux but it's massive amounts of change I heard you know we relate out to about five years of development on that I heard the the pace going forward will only get faster every three years you're gonna have a major release every six months right a minor release so how do you get the team in the community and all these things you know ever keeping up and even turning it up to 11 that day that's that's probably the one of the biggest parts of our job our customers can't deal with that change you know frankly I think in the bidding beginning of OpenStack one of the one of the mistakes that we as a community did for our customers was there were some vendors out there trying to tell customers you need to stay close to the head to the upstream head you need to stay close to the head and we really all try to get things out in six months that's great to try to start to evaluate innovation and how what you can do with that it's not great for necessarily running a stable business on and that's what and that's what I think our job is is to help our customers consume open-source developed technologies in a way that they can continue to run their business and that was the goal that was the audacious goal of rel from the beginning is that the model of rel it's in it's no I it's it's not necessarily about the bits because they're free it's about the life cycle of that and how we can help our customers consume that and that's what we do that frankly it to the core well just to follow up on that if you ask your customer and you say hey you're using Azure what version you are using they're like Microsoft patches and updates that constantly as opposed to the traditional you know Patch Tuesday in Windows so you know we seem to be closing that gap a little but it's challenging between the stuff I control and the stuff that I consume well we'll look at even OpenShift for we used I mean I know ashesh was on yesterday talking about that but we used a lot of the great technology we got from core OS to start to bring that model bet on to even on premise if you so choose with open shift because there's so many of the components that are that are intertwined with each other you know you've got kubernetes with talking the user space talking the kernel user space talking to the kernel talking the storage talking to networking so now automating that for our customers for that updates is is is what they want because that's how they consume it in the cloud I remember when we first started rel we used to put the the features on the side of the box and the first thing was what version of the kernel it was that quickly went away - they don't want to have to worry about that because they don't have the expertise to do to be added' eyewire themselves well congratulations Paul great week thank you very much again well done now on the keynote stage yesterday fascinating stuff this morning - so well done on the program inside and we wish you look down the road and don't forget to check your voicemail no I will thank you guys very much might be important all right always a pleasure back with more here from Red Hat summit 2019 you're watching us live here on the Q [Music]

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone we're here live in San Francisco red hat summit 2018 s cubes exclusive coverage we're out in the open in the middle of floor here as open source has always done out in the open it's the cube doing our part extracting the cylinders I'm John for the co-host of the cube with John Troy you might coast analyst this week he's the co-founder of a firm advisory firm our guest case is Paul Comey a president and products on technology of Red Hat architecting the future of red hat and products and technologies all open source great to see you again major see you so thank you coming on so great keynote today you guys have done a great job here I thought the messaging was great but the excitement was strong we just came back off of a week in Copenhagen coop con where kubernetes clearly sees the de facto standard around kubernetes the core kubernetes with a lot of room to differentiate around you got sto service meshes a lot of exciting things for application developers and then under the hood and the new life being brought into OpenStack so there's clear visibility now into what's going on swim lanes whatever we call it people kind of see it so congratulations thank you magical moment Lucky Strike all on the cards give us some color you guys been working on this for a while go back and where did it all start and when did things start clicking together for you guys well I know I sometimes sound like a broken record here but I mean the key to our success is the commercialization of Linux I mean you know Linux we started Linux as a commodity play you know it was cheaper cheaper almost as good et cetera but it became such a powerful platform all the innovation you just talked about is built around Linux it's all tied into Linux so once we lay down the Linux base and the customer and the customer data centers which is such the logical extension to go to these new technologies because it really you really need to be a Linux vendor in order to be able to do a kubernetes to release to be able to support our containers release any of these things it's all just intertwining the Linux and your model is working honestly the open source is no secret that that's open open it's over proprietary and closed but you also have a community model that's feeding into the price of technologies Jim Weider zzyx you know went into detail on hey you don't you know you have a crystal ball and technology because you're smart guys but ultimately the users in the communities give you direct feedback of what's relevant and cool at the right time this is really where kubernetes Lucky Strike for you guys was really there you saw it so the commitment you jumped in can you explain that dynamic of how the products get fed in from the communities I'll give you actually a better example of OpenShift itself so we originally started OpenShift back in 2011 and we started it as a marketing project we started it as a as a cloud-based platform to get developers out there building to our platform and a lot of our customer base saw it and came to us and said I want this as a product this is really really powerful so we made a product out of it first one kubernetes wasn't around containers weren't around we'd built it on virtual machines we had we had what we called gears to lock in and and then containers started to morph in and read by release three we transformed it to containers then we brought in kubernetes because we had worked with the Google folks earlier on that so we really listened to our customers we started at something we thought was going to be an expense and it turns out to be you know one of our hottest our hottest platform right now based on what our customers in the community told us timings everything - and the good timing is as the clouds took the scale started also becoming relevant you see Amazon success now you got as your IBM and everyone's kind of seeing that opportunity how are you guys looking at the container piece because you know we can look at the history and docker you know trying to monetize too early we've been you know we've documented that it went well in the cube many times core OS a recent acquisition big one for you guys and strategic but also a great team containers are super important talk about the role of containers specifically not so much as a business model but as a lynchpin right between how orchestration is moving and how these service messages are coming out I mean you think just real quickly what containers are first containers are just Linux carved up in a different way you still have a kernel still have user space the difference is you take just the user space you want with the application and you run it that way so all the same life cycles security issues you have to fix etc they have to do on a standard Linux have to do it in containers the first thing containers been around forever they were in units if we all if we all remember but the killer app for containers was because now when I can bring just enough two of the OS with the application I can run that to the cloud that's how we get the app out to the cloud that's how we get it onto the private cloud out to any of the public clouds how we reverse the clouds so even though they've been around for a while it's the killer app for containers so you mentioned hybrid cloud hybrid cloud multi-cloud are there are the terms it's this week we hear them a lot that been up on stage one way of putting it is is thinking about that different places of deploying but in one you are really saying that it doesn't matter where you deploy there's there's layers of an especially openshift can take you to different clouds it location doesn't matter anymore can you drill down on that a little bit absolutely I mean our our whole we took a bed I mean it sounds obvious now it always does right we took a bed on hybrid cloud I've been talking about it for six or seven years and what it means is customers are going to have applications that run on bare metal they're going to have running as virtual machines probably on VMware they're going to maybe run their private clouds maybe containers maybe across multiple clouds end of the day it's it's Linux underneath that what customers don't want is five different operating because every Linux is slightly different they don't want five different operating environments they want and want one so what we do with rel and with openshift is we give you that abstraction layer for your application to code once and you can move that app anywhere I mean the clouds the public clouds have brought a tremendous amount of innovation and I don't want to say this in a derogatory way but in some sense they're like a mainframe because they have their stack all the way up to there a flick their products are their services and so you start you start up you start up a service of server lists of lambda that's never leaving Amazon never so so it's great in many cases if that's ok for that app but there's a lot of cases you might want to run the app here one day and there the next day so you really need an abstraction layer to ensure that you have that portability and that's what shift and containers are so important right I hear things like de-facto standard and abstraction layers the bells go up opportunity because you now that's where complexity can be reduced down when you have good at rational layers but we've been interviewing folks here and the some themes have come up about the sea change that we're facing this cloud scale new Internet infrastructure going on globally and the two points are tcp/ip moment you know during that time that was networking even and that disrupted decnet today and others and then HTTP both are different HTV was all new capabilities the web disrupt the Direct Mail and other things analog leaving but he stupid created inter inter networking basis right Cisco and everything else here what containers what's interesting and I want to get your reaction to this is that with containers I don't have to kill the old to bring in the new I can do the new and then let the lifecycle of those workloads take a natural natural course this is a good thing for enterprise they don't have to rush in do a rip and replace they don't have to react attacked hire new people at massive scale talk about that dynamic is that seems to be what's happening it's exactly what's heavy you know we did a bunch of demos on stage this week I think nine of them live the coolest demo was the one where we showed we actually took a Windows virtual machine with a Windows SQL based virtual machine from VMware with tools we brought that over to a KVM environment which is it's a different format for the VM brought that to a KVM environment we then use tools to slice it up into two containers one being the app itself the other being at SQL and we deployed it out to openshift and we could eventually have deployed out to any public cloud that's significant for two reasons first of all you're now seeing kubernetes orchestrating VMs right beside containers so you can kind of see where that's going right so that's really that's interesting for the operators now because now they get they bring whittled down some of that complex it's really interest interesting for the developers because from a perspective they're going to be asked to bring these traditional virtual machines into containers in the old world they have to go to a VMware front-end to do that then they have to come over here to a route to a to a rev or rel front-end to do it now they can just bring their VM with tools over work on it split it up into containers and deploy it it's it's its efficiency adds at its best and shift without any effort without any effort really how about the impact of the customers because this is to me that the big money moment because that means an enterprise can actually progress and accelerate their digital transformation or whatever they got going on to a new architecture a new internet infrastructure we hear things like Network effect decentralized storage with with blockchain new capabilities that aren't measured by traditional older stacks that we've seen an e-commerce DNS and other things so a shifts happening the shifts have a cloud scale I say synchronous the pile are these cars with a scalable whole new way let's see what does that mean for customers what it means for customers is two things that are important the shift is happening you're getting tools and you're getting tools and platforms to make that shift more seamless and you know I'd love to say it's all red head engineers that are giving you this but the reason why it's moving so fast is because it's open so the innovation comes from anywhere it's way too big of a problem for any one customer to solve where we're just helping our customers consume it that's one thing but I think the other thing is important is that's important is not every application is going to be suited to go to a container based application so because it's all on that rel common layer our customers can still have one operating environment and have have compatibility as they do the shift but still keep their business going over here maybe forever these apps may never come off a bare-metal for example Paul I wanted to talk a little bit about Red Hat scope inside IT I love the the connection that between you know the container layer that is just Linux but and also the standards layer but you know now that we're up at threat you know with the with open shift and with multi cloud you know global huge scale operation there's a lot there's a lot more involved right cloud layout level ops is you now at Red Hat is involved with with process and and culture and you have a lot more than just you have a lot more that you're involved in helping IT with than just a Linux and some and connection to the back to the machine so can you talk a little bit about about what you're trying to do with the customer great it's a great point then when I started with a company 17 years ago we weren't talking to CIOs in fact the CIOs we were in that we were coming in the back door the operations people were bringing Linux in the back door and they the CIOs didn't even know it was run in there and but now as you said we're CIOs are trying to figure out how does public cloud fit into my IT environment how does a multiple public cloud fit in out of containers fit in what do I do with my older applications where there re architecting that's at the cio level now you know they're having to re architecture architect for the next generation computing so we've had to build services around that we have labs we have innovation labs where we bring our customers in and work with them and help them you know figure out and help them map out where they're going for the first time we actually I've had cut many customers tell me so is this is the with openshift it's the first time I've got my developers in my Ops people in the same room and we've facilitated that discussion because no one's right it's gotta be one one motion and so that's that's the interesting part for us we've really moved up the chain and our customer base because we're almost a consultative sale now to help them get to the next generation talk about the enabling aspect of this because I referenced tcp/ip and HTTP but now if you go forward and say okay we're gonna have this new environment it's not just about redheads by Linux it's about the operating system which you guys obviously offer for free and then have services around it and have stopped software how is Linux with the new capability of open shift and standards like kubernetes with containers how in your opinion is that an enabling an opportunity for ecosystem new startups and enterprises themselves because we see if this happens and continues to happen oh yeah it's going to be a new names gonna come out of the woodwork new startups gonna happen you see you see it every day I mean you wouldn't do a start-up today that wasn't software wise it wasn't based on Linux and and and that's why in all the innovation today because all the innovation today is based on Linux you know one of the things we and that we released last week a cube con is I don't know if you saw it or not we released a kubernetes SDK and it can track or OS it couldn't came with the core OS guys we put that out into the community it's really an SDK for ISVs and software but vendors to build into the api's of kubernetes in an open way so that once they get out into the commercial world they're ready that's how significant we all think that kubernetes is going to be i we think that's where the services are going to hang in the infrastructure but but having said that I think it also tells you that you know the impact that these open technologies are having on the future I wanna get into the chorus in a minute but I want to ask you about the white spaces so if someone who's that in charge of the troops inside Red Hat products and technologies where's the white space opportunities that people can dig in and and build out innovation around this major shift that you guys are on this wave where's the opportunity for the channel partners the integrators globe last night's developers anyone where's the key areas I mean with our platforms of open shift and OpenStack we have we have certified entry points via api's in storage networking management so we've got hybrid management but certainly we don't think we're gonna do everything in management by any stretch we have it we have a set of api's from management partners to plug in and by the way what I tell my my management R&D folks no hidden api same api's we use they use so so storage is another area new storage solutions networking certainly AI is one of the areas one of the things we showcased here was AI permeating through our entire product line I don't know if you saw the face recognition demo out there but it was it was pretty cool in and even if you want to consume that AI through one of the cloud providers we can pass you straight through from openshift to consume it that way as well on automation I want to get your thoughts on something we've talked a few days ago here on the cube was automation is great so let's give an example I'm automating a service you know if it's a coop with kubernetes and containers and as a memory leak right and every boots but automates I don't know so you got to have a new level of instrumentation down at the code level how do you see that playing out because now we got to be smarter about what's working and not working because I might not never know just reboots intermittently give me some mystery was a memory link could be something else but but that's so this is one of the places where using AI so we've been we've been our first stint with AI came out of our support group so we've been supporting Linux and open source for 25 years got a massive database of what failures were what the fixes were we started using AI in a support group to point our reps at a particular article based symptoms that they were hearing from our we realized we had about an 80% hit rate on you know on getting to our reps to the right to the right article so now we've built that into the products and so we use that AI like for example OpenShift IO which is at one of our developer platforms developers trying to link in a library we can tell them you know what there's a new there's a newer version of that library you know what that library has a security flaw in and at this line of code maybe you want to consider using another one but it's from our years and years of doing this that we're building that day database I mean oai is only so good as the data that you fed it and so have a certain level of granularity down to do you do it and then also ai it also is a reason why all our services are now on open shift because you're absolutely right if I've got a raw JBoss service running on raw Amazon I can't instrument that underneath because Amazon's got that layer closed if I have open shifts there and it's in the infrastructure is open shift even running in Amazon or sure anywhere we can now instrument that to look at some of the things we need to look at to recognize an event a week or or whatever Paul talk about their journey with kora West obviously we've been super excited by that we've been following Korres from the beginning great technical team pure open-source guys and in that container part of the evolution in time everyone's trying to force a business model and you're really hard to force a business model is something that too early or might not even be relevant to build the business around it might be a feature not a company kind of thing so you guys put a big price tag on them sizable chunk of cash how did it all play out you guys just like hey wow we're gonna we wait like these guys they're super technical meeting of the minds and then how that has fit in from a product and technology stand a little bit a little of all of that of course the benefit of being you know having the open source development in in your DNA as we knew them all right so we knew how good they were because they we work our guys work with them every day so that was something when they decided early on like us to go to kubernetes they became a big part of the of the community of kubernetes in our model from day one you can't be an open-source provider if you're not strong in the upstream community because how can you affect what your customers are asking you to do if you and effect upstream they were big in the upstream big and kubernetes and so at that point we that's what we just said they had done some interesting things that we hadn't got to they did a lot of the automation they were doing over-the-air updates of the container platforms a week which we hadn't got to yet they had a really good following in the community so we decided you know we paid a we paid a hefty price but at this stage of the game we really feel that we took an early bit in kubernetes we really feel that that's gonna be the future in containers if there's gonna be a place a place that you pay maybe a little more this is the place well Paul I think another example is ansible a year or two back right and that's been a remained a huge success and I can say you haven't messed it up right and it's it's it's been powerful accomplished well most acquisitions you know and in end in tears so it seems like RedHat seems to be good at this kind of an open source acquisition we we get to interview them for two years before we bring them in based on well how we work in the community but you know we're very where we're bringing in people I don't I hate to say the word M&A or acquisition I just hate that word because we're just joining forces here you know it just took a a big check to do it yeah and you guys have the business model kneel down this is good was good for court at the time for them to they didn't have to worry about having to figure out a go to market and monetize right an upstream presence which was very valuable and then trying to shoehorn a business all around it and which is difficult companies died doing it yeah I mean I can't think of many that have been that successful at it I mean it's a hard thing to do I mean look we've had a great advantage you know we've had rail in the market for 16 years and it built a base for us I'm not gonna try to I'm not gonna try to kid you on that and it's the it's the Linux base that everything's getting built around and so we just keep those those principles we've used for the last 16 years we stay true to weak true to them we could not do a proprietary piece of software now if our lives depended on it that's the DNA well how do you handle the growth you get hiring new people - that's a challenge we've been we were talking to folks about on your team and across RedHat around hiring people and and you got to maintain that eco so you have to maintain that DNA way how do you guys do that what's the is there like a special three three day you know hypnotic class a you know this is how we do it I have to tell you it's a bit easier on the engineering side because you know it's typically engineers that have been working in the community etc but you know our business unit side and other pieces where people have been coming out of big companies and they're used to a hierarchical environment we really take that into account in the interview process I'll be frank not everyone makes it through I mean RedHat is you know titles really don't matter a ringlet company yeah totally engineering as all should be by the way if biased opinion fit okay so great to have you on thanks for spending the time I know you're super busy a couple questions before we wrap up what are you most proud of as you look back now I mean someone again it's almost hindsight's 2020 looks obvious these calls but you know I interviewed Diane at OpenStack many years ago took a lot of heat for that kubernetes movement people weren't it wasn't obvious to a lot of people at that time the kubernetes bet you guys make good bets looking back what are you most proud of that's most significant or or you think people should know well those were that was a seminal moment in redhead history that decision what take us through some of the key milestones in your opinion the for the first one there's probably three or four the first one was gonna Ralph because you have to understand what we did we were in we were a completely retail when I joined the company with 50 million dollars in revenue losing two hundred and so we had a retail product we stopped it to go to route literally literally stop the product bet the company move second one was JBoss we were about 300 million in revenue we paid 425 million for JBoss now that was a big one the third one you might not recognize this one moving from Xen to KVM because Xen was going off down the the VC world trying to figure out how to monetize as a company somebody in Israel came up with a with a better model with KVM the rest of the industry was on Zen we said as a single player we're going this way that was a big bet that I don't even know we recognized the significance of at the time and in kubernetes as I said we pivoted on that in 2012 or so and I've got a lot of R&D money in that and paying on what made you go to kubernetes just curious was the has the Borg success how software is being done at Google was it the role of containers did you guys have that foresight at that time saying containers gonna have a critical role we don't want to screw that up we can bring this in we're looking at from a stack perspective or was it more of a future scenario it was a lot of it was its its heritage out of Borg and knowing the talent in Google and engineering and we talked to we had we had many many discussions we all we continually do with those guys so I think it was mostly a technical decision and what we said was at that point putting our weight behind it we just need to make the community successful so I mean we quickly figure with us in Google it was a it was a fairly good bad not as sure bet but a good bet and that's what made us go there it was really it was really a technology decision possible final question as we wrap up for the folks watching who couldn't make it here in San Francisco for Red Hat summit 2018 what's the big takeaway what's the present technology what's the North Star for you and your team and what are you guys putting as a priority what's the focus I think I think the takeaway from here is you know I think it's I think it's a pretty solid couple things are really solid it's going to be the future is going to be open source period end of story especially in the infrastructure and application development world third thing is hybrid cloud is the model it's the only practical way not every application is moving to one public cloud tomorrow and the third thing is for Red Hat that's the architecture that we build around every day we guide what are what products we build what M&A we do everything we do is around that model and open if I see a centerpiece of all the piece without all that coming thank you for coming on president of Protestant technology at Red Hat I'm John ferry with John Moyer stay with us for more live covers our third day of three days of live coverage here out in the open like open source we're doing our share bringing you the content you right back with more after this short break you

>> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's The Cube covering Red Hat Summit 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat. (electronic music) >> Welcome Back to The Cube's coverage of the Red Hat Summit, Boston, Massachusetts. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost Stu Miniman. We are joined by Paul Cormier. He is the executive vice president and president of products and technologies here at Red Hat. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> I want to ask you about a point you made earlier in your keynote. You talked about the challenges the customer is facing. You talked about how last year the three big ones were cost, security, and automation. This year it's all about Cloud strategy and about the pace of innovation. What is driving this shift in customer priorities and challenges? >> I think the big thing that's driving it, I think over the previous years, people were really test driving a lot of the Cloud and the hybrid technologies. And now, as they actually start to move to the next phase and they actually have to stitch it into their environment, that's where we get real. And that's actually why we see a lot of customers here 'cause that's what we've done over the last 12 to 18 months is worked with our customers in getting this into their environment. Cloud as part of their IT environment and not the entire IT environment. So I think that's what driving it. We're solving real world problems now, and I think that's what we do best, and I think that's what open source does best. >> Paul, I thought it was a great point. I loved to see that the Cloud strategy was like the number one thing, because it is what I've been hearing when I've been talking to practitioners last year or two. I had a T-shirt that said, Blah blah cloud, because we spent so many years talking about it. In the industry it's always, Oh, there's this cool new thing and customer you need to get on it. Now, having a Cloud strategy is critical for any IT department to understand how they're going forward, where they deploy resources, where they go to their partners, like yourself, to be able to change and shift many of the things that they're doing. >> Well, what we've found, even in my own shop, right, even my own development shop, what we've found is you had a lot of departmental groups going out to the public Cloud. And now you're getting, now, because you're spending so much there and pieces going out, now the CIO gets involved, and now they want to look at it. How is this going to fit into my overall strategy? And so, at that point, the only way is hybrid. And so, the CIO now, they don't want five islands of different operating environments, they want one. As a little operating group, really doesn't care, they want their own thing, but when the CIO's now looking at an overall structure for the entire company, that's what's really driving hybrid right now. And that's really driving these implementations, and frankly, that's what's driving a lot of the desire to have this common operating environment that we've been talking about for a long time. And implementing for a long time. >> So how do you do it? When you talked about these five separate islands, but those five islands now need to work together and communicate and collaborate and come up with a unified strategy, how do you do it? >> Two things. First of all, because so much has moved to Linux, RHEL is that platform. The Cloud is about the application. One of the points that I made in my keynote this morning, kind of made it a little subtly, so maybe it didn't come through, we're not building infrastructure for the sake of building infrastructure. We're building infrastructure for the applications. And so, that's the really important part. The applications run on Linux, so the first step, the first step is really getting a common operating environment for the application. We did that 15 years ago with RHEL. So now, when you see RHEL on Bare Metal, RHEL as a virtual machine on US, VMware, or Microsoft, RHEL as a container in a private Cloud, RHEL in one of the public guys, it's the same RHEL. So, we do seven one or seven two, it's seven one or seven two, we upgrade in the same way with the same number of bits. When we have a security update for seven two, it's the same thing. So now the application really with RHEL really gets that consistency. Then, with OpenShift now we bring the infrastructure to maintain it, support it, deploy it, and manage it. And so, that's what's really, the light bulb's going on for a lot of CIO's as they've seen OpenShift, and OpenStack as well, because we're making this hybrid world now manageable and secure. But RHEL's been the key because that's the application. That's the application layer. Frankly, that is the piece that VMware didn't have, right? VMware didn't have any pieces that touched the app. Apps don't run on hypervisors, they run operating systems. And even containers, it's just a Linux OS sliced up in different way. So that's really been the key. We've been at this for 15 years. Really, if you look at it that way, we've evolved this over 15 years. >> Alright, Paul you mentioned briefly in your keynote an announcement with AWS. I know keynote tomorrow is going to go into more detail, but, we think it's a pretty big deal. I've been talking to some of the press, we talked to one of your customers, Optum, who's one of the keynote speakers. I mean, he said game changer. This is, he uses Open Shift, loves what we can do this. You were just talking about the application Affinity, and that's what infrastructure's for. Can you connect that with what we're talking about with AWS here? >> I think why this is a game changer for all of us, and mostly the customer, is because, prior to this, invoking an Amazon service for an application would mean that it could only be invoked from that infrastructure at AWS, can only be run there, frankly. And it really was limiting. With now bringing the connection points back into OpenShift the application can now invoke that Amazon service from on Amazon, or even on Premise. And it really extends the reach of Amazon to come in to really now build a hybrid environment. And I also think it's significant for our customers telling both of us, both Red Hat and Amazon, that they want want to run in a hybrid world. So, that's the game changer. It really extends both of our reaches that way while keeping that consistent operating environment with the RHEL base. >> And that's different than just saying oh, I can run a VM in an Amazon environment. >> Right, because you're running a VM as an island. Now, you're running an actual system that's spanning across the hybrid world being managed and orchestrated from one place. >> I want to talk to you about your approach to the product design and development process. In the past you have talked about the virtues of patience and how you do not build a multi-million dollar product overnight. It takes years. And yet, on the other hand, there is this desire and hunger for fast innovation and changes. How do you strike that balance with your team and also with customers? >> My wife wouldn't say I had that much patience. (laughing) >> But at least you appreciate that it's a good thing. >> No, I mean, frankly, our company and even all the way to our board of directors has been very, very supportive of that. I mean, the first thing we do is we start and ease up stream communities. And really, what we are doing now is we're really integrating multiple communities together. When it was just the OS in the past people used to say all the time there is no Linux community, there's multiple communities and our job is to bring it all together. Right now, it's that on steroids. We try to pick the right technologies and drive it. I mean, I'll give you a great example. We bought a company a few years back, Qumranet. At the time Zen was the hyper visor, the community was going to KVM, we bought the company, they had zero revenue, we had zero additional revenue because it was a hyper visor. We bought it so we could get behind the community, bolster it, and know it would go in the right direction. That is the key that no one else has really figured out, is to place yourself in these communities over the years, and drive it, drive it, drive it, and then bring that innovation into a product. I call it the difference between a project and a product. Our products are really an amalgamation of many communities put together in a platform to solve a real world problem. But you have to have the patience. RHEL has been such a successful product for us, frankly, it's fueled financially, it's fueled us and given us the ability to have the patience for all these next generation platforms. That's what's done it for us really. >> Your CEO Jim Whitehurst, in his book, talked about how from an acquisition standpoint, everything you do, it's got to be open sourced. Does that hamper you at all or are there certain technology areas, things are moving so fast, that would you buy something and keep it internal for a while until it was open source? How do you handle something like that? >> The last five or six acquisitions were not open sourced, so we open sourced them. >> Stu: Okay. >> It's just in our DNA, frankly, I think it's forced us to do it the right way, because we couldn't have a closed sourced product now if we tried. If Jim and I said we're going to have a closed sourced product we'd be in the office alone. And it's in the DNA, and it's really forced us to build better software, because we never ever think here's the line and everything below is open and above is closed. We never have to think that. It's all open. And it just forces that innovation. The landscape is littered with companies that have tried to have that line. It just doesn't work. You confuse your your engineers, you confuse your market, you confuse your customers, you confuse your partners. It's all open. And that's what really drives the innovation. >> Let's talk about recruitment and getting this war for talent that we're seeing in the tech industry. Red Hat's based in North Carolina. You're based here in Boston. Of course we have people here 70 different countries, as your CEO mentioned in his opening remarks. What are you seeing? What are the trends? What do the best and brightest developers want out of an employer? And how are you giving it to them? >> A couple things. Up here in Boston the products group is headquartered up here. Sales group is headquartered up here. So we sort of live together. One of the things we've just did, we just announced we're opening an office right across the street here, for both R&D and our customer briefing center. So one thing is-- >> Congratulations. We're excited for that. Of course you'd had the Westford facility with lots of engineers. But Boston, a block away from where GE's new headquarters going to be. >> A block away. It's about collaborating with the universities, collaborating with the students to come out of the universities. I see it around the world. No, but they want to be in the city. >> Rebecca: Yeah. >> They want to be in the city. That's the first thing. We have a thousand engineers in the Czech Republic that are core to our product. They build many of the products in the Czech Republic. We're near universities. The reason why we did Boston for the R&D is universities, just as the Czech Republic. Because now what's taught in engineering and computer science programs is Linux and open source. So when students can get out, go work for a company, we give them the freedom to really drive where the technology needs to go, that's really our recruiting draw. I would never go into our engineers and say you will implement this this way. They implement it the right way. >> Rebecca: So autonomy? >> Autonomy. >> Rebecca: And cities. (laughing) >> Paul: Well, autonomy and cities in the right places. >> Right, right. >> We're really looking for the talent that really wants to innovate. And they're coming out of the universities now doing that. So that's what's been successful for us. >> Alright, Paul we were talking about this is the 13th year of the show, it's the fourth year we've done it. The Cloud piece has really matured a lot. If you looked forward, if we come back a year from now, what do you kind of see as some of the major things that we'll want to have accomplished? What's on your plate for the next 12 months? >> One of the things that we're looking at now, I sort of ended it up in my keynote, is we really think that we've really abstracted the differences for the application layer, storage layer, application layer, management layer, across the hybrid world, but there's a lot of pieces of the infrastructure that the operations people have to deal with every day. The network stacks, the really underneath and the plumbing storage stacks. Sort of the difference between OpenShift and OpenStack. VM's being orchestrated beside containers. So we really starting to see those pieces come together. Really that application layer and that infrastructure layer coming together. We think of OpenStack as bringing the infrastructure to the hybrid world and OpenShift as bringing the application to the hybrid world. Starting to bring those pieces together. And I think that's what you'll see more of next year. Is commonality around management, orchestration, networking, storage, just more of that, and more ease of plug and play. >> Great, well Paul Cormier thank you so much for joining us. This is Rebecca Knight along with Stu Miniman. Thank you for joining us at Red Hat Summit 2017. We'll be back just after this. (electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We're covering Red Hat Summit 2022. We're going to wrap up now, Dave Vellante, Paul Gillin. We want to introduce you to Stephanie Chan, who's our new correspondent. Stephanie, one of your first events, your very first CUBE event. So welcome. >> Thank you. >> Up from NYC. Smaller event, but intimate. You got a chance to meet some folks last night at some of the after parties. What are your overall impressions? What'd you learn this week? >> So this has been my first in-person event in over two years. And even though, like you said, is on the smaller scale, roughly around 1000 attendees, versus it's usual eight to 10,000 attendees. There's so much energy, and excitement, and openness in these events and sessions. Even before and after the sessions people have been mingling and socializing and hanging out. So, I think a lot of people appreciate these in-person events and are really excited to be here. >> Cool. So, you also sat in some of the keynotes, right? Pretty technical, right? Which is kind of new to sort of your genre, right? I mean, I know you got a financial background but, so what'd you think of the keynotes? What'd you think of the format, the theater in the round? Any impressions of that? >> So, I think there's three things that are really consistent in these Red Hat Summit keynotes. There's always a history lesson. There's always, you know, emphasis in the culture of openness. And, there's also inspirational stories about how people utilize open source. And I found a lot of those examples really compelling and interesting. For instance, people use open source in (indistinct), and even in space. So I really enjoyed, you know, learning about all these different people and stories. What about you guys? What do you think were the big takeaways and the best stories that came out of the keynotes? >> Paul, want to start? >> Clearly the Red Hat Enterprise Linux 9 is a major rollout. They do that only about every three years. So that's a big deal to this audience. I think what they did in the area of security, with rolling out sigstore, which is a major new, I think an important new project that was sort of incubated at Red Hat. And they're trying to put in to create an open source ecosystem around that now. And the alliances. I'm usually not that much on partnerships, but the Accenture and the Microsoft partnerships do seem to be significant to the company. And, finally, the GM partnership which I think was maybe kind of the bombshell that they sort of rushed in at the last minute. But I think has the biggest potential impact on Red Hat and its partner ecosystem that is really going to anchor their edge architecture going forward. So I didn't see it so much on the product front, but the sense of Red Hat spreading its wings, and partnering with more companies, and seeing its itself as really the center of an ecosystem indicates that they are, you know, they're in a very solid position in their business. >> Yeah, and also like the pandemic has really forced us into this new normal, right? So customer demand is changing. There has been the shift to remote. There's always going to be a new normal according to Paul, and open source carries us through that. So how do you guys think Red Hat has helped its portfolio through this new normal and the shift? >> I mean, when you think of Red Hat, you think of Linux. I mean, that's where it all started. You think OpenShift which is the application development platforms. Linux is the OS. OpenShift is the application development platform for Kubernetes. And then of course, Ansible is the automation framework. And I agree with you, ecosystem is really the other piece of this. So, I mean, I think you take those three pieces and extend that into the open source community. There's a lot of innovation that's going around each of those, but ecosystems are the key. We heard from Stefanie Chiras, that fundamental, I mean, you can't do this without those gap fillers and those partnerships. And then another thing that's notable here is, you know, this was, I mean, IBM was just another brand, right? I mean, if anything it was probably a sub-brand, I mean, you didn't hear much about IBM. You certainly had no IBM presence, even though they're right across the street running Think. No Arvind present, no keynote from Arvind, no, you know, Big Blue washing. And so, I think that's a testament to Arvind himself. We heard that from Paul Cormier, he said, hey, this guy's been great, he's left us alone. And he's allowed us to continue innovating. It's good news. IBM has not polluted Red Hat. >> Yes, I think that the Red Hat was, I said at the opening, I think Red Hat is kind of the tail wagging the dog right now. And their position seems very solid in the market. Clearly the market has come to them in terms of their evangelism of open source. They've remained true to their business model. And I think that gives them credibility that, you know, a lot of other open source companies have lacked. They have stuck with the plan for over 20 years now and have really not changed it, and it's paying off. I think they're emerging as a company that you can trust to do business with. >> Now I want to throw in something else here. I thought the conversation with IDC analyst, Jim Mercer, was interesting when he said that they surveyed customers and they wanted to get the security from their platform vendor, versus having to buy these bespoke tools. And it makes a lot of sense to me. I don't think that's going to happen, right? Because you're going to have an identity specialist. You're going to have an endpoint specialist. You're going to have a threat detection specialist. And they're going to be best of breed, you know, Red Hat's never going to be all of those things. What they can do is partner with those companies through APIs, through open source integrations, they can add them in as part of the ecosystem and maybe be the steward of that. Maybe that's the answer. They're never going to be the best at all those different security disciplines. There's no way in the world, Red Hat, that's going to happen. But they could be the integration point. And that would be, that would be a simplifying layer to the equation. >> And I think it's smart. You know, they're not pretending to be an identity in access management or an anti-malware company, or even a zero trust company. They are sticking to their knitting, which is operating system and developers. Evangelizing DevSecOps, which is a good thing. And, that's what they're going to do. You know, you have to admire this company. It has never gotten outside of its swim lane. I think it's understood well really what it wants to be good at. And, you know, in the software business knowing what not to do is more important than knowing what to do. Is companies that fail are usually the ones that get overextended, this company has never overextended itself. >> What else do you want to know? >> And a term that kept popping up was multicloud, or otherwise known as metacloud. We know what the cloud is, but- >> Oh, supercloud, metacloud. >> Supercloud, yeah, here we go. We know what the cloud is but, what does metacloud mean to you guys? And why has it been so popular in these conversations? >> I'm going to boot this to Dave, because he's the expert on this. >> Well, expert or not, but I mean, again, we've coined this term supercloud. And the idea behind the supercloud or what Ashesh called metacloud, I like his name, cause it allows Web 3.0 to come into the equation. But the idea is that instead of building on each individual cloud and have compatibility with that cloud, you build a layer across clouds. So you do the hard work as a platform supplier to hide the underlying primitives and APIs from the end customer, or the end developer, they can then add value on top of that. And that abstraction layer spans on-prem, clouds, across clouds, ultimately out to the edge. And it's new, a new value layer that builds on top of the hyperscale infrastructure, or existing data center infrastructure, or emerging edge infrastructure. And the reason why that is important is because it's so damn complicated, number one. Number two, every company's becoming a software company, a technology company. They're bringing their services through digital transformation to their customers. And you've got to have a cloud to do that. You're not going to build your own data center. That's like Charles Wang says, not Charles Wang. (Paul laughing) Charles Phillips. We were just talking about CA. Charles Phillips. Friends don't let friends build data centers. So that supercloud concept, or what Ashesh calls metacloud, is this new layer that's going to be powered by ecosystems and platform companies. And I think it's real. I think it's- >> And OpenShift, OpenShift is a great, you know, key card for them or leverage for them because it is perhaps the best known Kubernetes platform. And you can see here they're really doubling down on adding features to OpenShift, security features, scalability. And they see it as potentially this metacloud, this supercloud abstraction layer. >> And what we said is, in order to have a supercloud you got to have a superpaz layer and OpenShift is that superpaz layer. >> So you had conversations with a lot of people within the past two days. Some people include companies, from Verizon, Intel, Accenture. Which conversation stood out to you the most? >> Which, I'm sorry. >> Which conversation stood out to you the most? (Paul sighs) >> The conversation with Stu Miniman was pretty interesting because we talked about culture. And really, he has a lot of credibility in that area because he's not a Red Hat. You know, he hasn't been a Red Hat forever, he's fairly new to the company. And got a sense from him that the culture there really is what they say it is. It's a culture of openness and that's, you know, that's as important as technology for a company's success. >> I mean, this was really good content. I mean, there were a lot, I mean Stefanie's awesome. Stefanie Chiras, we're talking about the ecosystem. Chris Wright, you know, digging into some of the CTO stuff. Ashesh, who coined metacloud, I love that. The whole in vehicle operating system conversation was great. The security discussion that we just had. You know, the conversations with Accenture were super thoughtful. Of course, Paul Cormier was a highlight. I think that one's going to be a well viewed interview, for sure. And, you know, I think that the customer conversations are great. Red Hat did a really good job of carrying the keynote conversations, which were abbreviated this year, to theCUBE. >> Right. >> I give 'em a lot of kudos for that. And because, theCUBE, it allows us to double click, go deeper, peel the onion a little bit, you know, all the buzz words, and cliches. But it's true. You get to clarify some of the things you heard, which were, you know, the keynotes were, were scripted, but tight. And so we had some good follow up questions. I thought it was super useful. I know I'm leaving somebody out, but- >> We're also able to interview representatives from Intel and Nvidia, which at a software conference you don't typically do. I mean, there's the assimilation, the combination of hardware and software. It's very clear that, and this came out in the keynote, that Red Hat sees hardware as matter. It matters. It's important again. And it's going to be a source of innovation in the future. That came through clearly. >> Yeah. The hardware matters theme, you know, the old days you would have an operating system and the hardware were intrinsically linked. MVS in the mainframe, VAX, VMS in the digital mini computers. DG had its own operating system. Wang had his own operating system. Prime with Prime OS. You remember these days? >> Oh my God. >> Right? (Paul laughs) And then of course Microsoft. >> And then x86, everything got abstracted. >> Right. >> Everything became x86 and now it's all atomizing again. >> Although WinTel, right? I mean, MS-DOS and Windows were intrinsically linked for many, many years with Intel x86. And it wasn't until, you know, well, and then, you know, Sun Solaris, but it wasn't until Linux kind of blew that apart. And the internet is built on the lamp stack. And of course, Linux is the fundamental foundation for Red Hat. So my point is, that the operating system and the hardware have always been very closely tied together. Whether it's security, or IO, or registries and memory management, everything controlled by the OS are very close to the hardware. And so that's why I think you've got an affinity in Red Hat to hardware. >> But Linux is breaking that bond, don't you think? >> Yes, but it still has to understand the underlying hardware. >> Right. >> You heard today, how taking advantage of Nvidia, and the AI capabilities. You're seeing that with ARM, you're seeing that with Intel. How you can optimize the operating system to take advantage of new generations of CPU, and NPU, and CPU, and PU, XPU, you know, across the board. >> Yep. >> Well, I really enjoyed this conference and it really stressed how important open source is to a lot of different industries. >> Great. Well, thanks for coming on. Paul, thank you. Great co-hosting with you. And thank you. >> Always, Dave. >> For watching theCUBE. We'll be on the road, next week we're at KubeCon in Valencia, Spain. We're at VeeamON. We got a ton of stuff going on. Check out thecube.net. Check out siliconangle.com for all the news. Wikibon.com. We publish there weekly, our breaking analysis series. Thanks for watching everybody. Dave Vellante, for Paul Gillin, and Stephanie Chan. Thanks to the crew. Shout out, Andrew, Alex, Sonya. Amazing job, Sonya. Steven, thanks you guys for coming out here. Mark, good job corresponding. Go to SiliconANGLE, Mark's written some great stuff. And thank you for watching. We'll see you next time. (calm music)

(bright music) >> Okay, we're back in theCUBE. We said we were signing off for the night, but during the hallway track, we ran into old friend Stu Miniman who was the Director of Market Insights at Red Hat. Stu, friend of theCUBE done the thousands of CUBE interviews. >> Dave, it's great to be here. Thanks for pulling me on, you and I hosted Red Hat Summit before. It's great to see Paul here. I was actually, I was talking to some of the Red Hatters walking around Boston. It's great to have an event here. Boston's got strong presence and I understand, I think was either first or second year, they had it over... What's the building they're tearing down right down the road here. Was that the World Trade Center? I think that's where they actually held it, the first time they were here. We hosted theCUBE >> So they moved up. >> at the Hines Convention Center. We did theCUBE for summit at the BCEC next door. And of course, with the pandemic being what it was, we're a little smaller, nice intimate event here. It's great to be able to room the hall, see a whole bunch of people and lots watching online. >> It's great, it's around the same size as those, remember those Vertica Big Data events that we used to have here. And I like that you were commenting out at the theater and the around this morning for the keynotes, that was good. And the keynotes being compressed, I think, is real value for the attendees, you know? 'Cause people come to these events, they want to see each other, you know? They want to... It's like the band getting back together. And so when you're stuck in the keynote room, it's like, "Oh, it's okay, it's time to go." >> I don't know that any of us used to sitting at home where I could just click to another tab or pause it or run for, do something for the family, or a quick bio break. It's the three-hour keynote I hope has been retired. >> But it's an interesting point though, that the virtual event really is driving the physical and this, the way Red Hat marketed this event was very much around the virtual attendee. Physical was almost an afterthought, so. >> Right, this is an invite only for in-person. So you're absolutely right. It's optimizing the things that are being streamed, the online audience is the big audience. And we just happy to be in here to clap and do some things see around what you're doing. >> Wonderful see that becoming the norm. >> I think like virtual Stu, you know this well when virtual first came in, nobody had a clue with what they were doing. It was really hard. They tried different things, they tried to take the physical and just jam it into the virtual. That didn't work, they tried doing fun things. They would bring in a famous person or a comedian. And that kind of worked, I guess, but everybody showed up for that and then left. And I think they're trying to figure it out what this hybrid thing is. I've seen it both ways. I've seen situations like this, where they're really sensitive to the virtual. I've seen others where that's the FOMO of the physical, people want physical. So, yeah, I think it depends. I mean, reinvent last year was heavy physical. >> Yeah, with 15,000 people there. >> Pretty long keynotes, you know? So maybe Amazon can get away with it, but I think most companies aren't going to be able to. So what is the market telling you? What are these insights? >> So Dave just talking about Amazon, obviously, the world I live in cloud and that discussion of cloud, the journey that customers are going on is where we're spending a lot of the discussions. So, it was great to hear in the keynote, talked about our deep partnerships with the cloud providers and what we're doing to help people with, you like to call it super cloud, some call it hybrid, or multi-cloud... >> New name. (crosstalk) Meta-Cloud, come on. >> All right, you know if Che's my executive, so it's wonderful. >> Love it. >> But we'll see, if I could put on my VR Goggles and that will help me move things. But I love like the partnership announcement with General Motors today because not every company has the needs of software driven electric vehicles all over the place. But the technology that we build for them actually has ramifications everywhere. We've working to take Kubernetes and make it smaller over time. So things that we do at the edge benefit the cloud, benefit what we do in the data center, it's that advancement of science and technology just lifts all boats. >> So what's your take on all this? The EV and software on wheels. I mean, Tesla obviously has a huge lead. It's kind of like the Amazon of vehicles, right? It's sort of inspired a whole new wave of innovation. Now you've got every automobile manufacturer kind of go and after. That is the future of vehicles is something you followed or something you have an opinion on Stu? >> Absolutely. It's driving innovation in some ways, the way the DOS drove innovation on the desktop, if you remember the 64K DOS limit, for years, that was... The software developers came up with some amazing ways to work within that 64K limit. Then when it was gone, we got bloatware, but it actually does enforce a level of discipline on you to try to figure out how to make software run better, run more efficiently. And that has upstream impacts on the enterprise products. >> Well, right. So following your analogy, you talk about the enablement to the desktop, Linux was a huge influence on allowing the individual person to write code and write software, and what's happening in the EV, it's software platform. All of these innovations that we're seeing across industries, it's how is software transforming things. We go back to the mark end reasons, software's eating the world, open source is the way that software is developed. Who's at the intersection of all those? We think we have a nice part to play in that. I loved tha- Dave, I don't know if you caught at the end of the keynote, Matt Hicks basically said, "Our mission isn't just to write enterprise software. "Our mission is based off of open source because open source unlocks innovation for the world." And that's one of the things that drew me to Red Hat, it's not just tech in good places, but allowing underrepresented, different countries to participate in what's happening with software. And we can all move that ball forward. >> Well, can we declare victory for open source because it's not just open source products, but everything that's developed today, whether proprietary or open has open source in it. >> Paul, I agree. Open source is the development model period, today. Are there some places that there's proprietary? Absolutely. But I had a discussion with Deepak Singh who's been on theCUBE many times. He said like, our default is, we start with open source code. I mean, even Amazon when you start talking about that. >> I said this, the $70 billion business on open source. >> Exactly. >> Necessarily give it back, but that say, Hey, this is... All's fair in tech and more. >> It is interesting how the managed service model has sort of rescued open source, open source companies, that were trying to do the Red Hat model. No one's ever really successfully duplicated the Red Hat model. A lot of companies were floundering and failing. And then the managed service option came along. And so now they're all cloud service providers. >> So the only thing I'd say is that there are some other peers we have in the industry that are built off open source they're doing okay. The recent example, GitLab and Hashicorp, both went public. Hashi is doing some managed services, but it's not the majority of their product. Look at a company like Mongo, they've heavily pivoted toward the managed service. It is where we see the largest growth in our area. The products that we have again with Amazon, with Microsoft, huge growth, lots of interest. It's one of the things I spend most of my time talking on. >> I think Databricks is another interesting example 'cause Cloudera was the now company and they had the sort of open core, and then they had the proprietary piece, and they've obviously didn't work. Databricks when they developed Spark out of Berkeley, everybody thought they were going to do kind of a similar model. Instead, they went for all in managed services. And it's really worked well, I think they were ahead of that curve and you're seeing it now is it's what customers want. >> Well, I mean, Dave, you cover the database market pretty heavily. How many different open source database options are there today? And that's one of the things we're solving. When you look at what is Red Hat doing in the cloud? Okay, I've got lots of databases. Well, we have something called, it's Red Hat Open Database Access, which is from a developer, I don't want to have to think about, I've got six different databases, which one, where's the repository? How does all that happen? We give that consistency, it's tied into OpenShift, so it can help abstract some of those pieces. we've got same Kafka streaming and we've got APIs. So it's frameworks and enablers to help bridge that gap between the complexity that's out there, in the cloud and for the developer tool chain. >> That's really important role you guys play though because you had this proliferation, you mentioned Mongo. So many others, Presto and Starbursts, et cetera, so many other open source options out there now. And companies, developers want to work with multiple databases within the same application. And you have a role in making that easy. >> Yeah, so and that is, if you talk about the question I get all the time is, what's next for Kubernetes? Dave, you and I did a preview for KubeCon and it's automation and simplicity that we need to be. It's not enough to just say, "Hey, we've got APIs." It's like Dave, we used to say, "We've got standards? Great." Everybody's implementation was a little bit different. So we have API Sprawl today. So it's building that ecosystem. You've been talking to a number of our partners. We are very active in the community and trying to do things that can lift up the community, help the developers, help that cloud native ecosystem, help our customers move faster. >> Yeah API's better than scripts, but they got to be managed, right? So, and that's really what you guys are doing that's different. You're not trying to own everything, right? It's sort of antithetical to how billions and trillions are made in the IT industry. >> I remember a few years ago we talked here, and you look at the size that Red Hat is. And the question is, could Red Hat have monetized more if the model was a little different? It's like, well maybe, but that's not the why. I love that they actually had Simon Sinek come in and work with Red Hat and that open, unlocks the world. Like that's the core, it's the why. When I join, they're like, here's a book of Red Hat, you can get it online and that why of what we do, so we never have to think of how do we get there. We did an acquisition in the security space a year ago, StackRox, took us a year, it's open source. Stackrox.io, it's community driven, open source project there because we could have said, "Oh, well, yeah, it's kind of open source and there's pieces that are open source, but we want it to be fully open source." You just talked to Gunnar about how he's RHEL nine, based off CentOS stream, and now developing out in the open with that model, so. >> Well, you were always a big fan of Whitehurst culture book, right? It makes a difference. >> The open organization and right, Red Hat? That culture is special. It's definitely interesting. So first of all, most companies are built with the hierarchy in mind. Had a friend of mine that when he joined Red Hat, he's like, I don't understand, it's almost like you have like lots of individual contractors, all doing their things 'cause Red Hat works on thousands of projects. But I remember talking to Rackspace years ago when OpenStack was a thing and they're like, "How do you figure out what to work on?" "Oh, well we hired great people and they work on what's important to them." And I'm like, "That doesn't sound like a business." And he is like, "Well, we struggle sometimes to that balance." Red Hat has found that balance because we work on a lot of different projects and there are people inside Red Hat that are, you know, they care more about the project than they do the business, but there's the overall view as to where we participate and where we productize because we're not creating IP because it's all an open source. So it's the monetizations, the relationships we have our customers, the ecosystems that we build. And so that is special. And I'll tell you that my line has been Red Hat on the inside is even more Red Hat. The debates and the discussions are brutal. I mean, technical people tearing things apart, questioning things and you can't be thin skinned. And the other thing is, what's great is new people. I've talked to so many people that started at Red Hat as interns and will stay for seven, eight years. And they come there and they have as much of a seat at the table, and when I talk to new people, your job, is if you don't understand something or you think we might be able to do it differently, you better speak up because we want your opinion and we'll take that, everybody takes that into consideration. It's not like, does the decision go all the way up to this executive? And it's like, no, it's done more at the team. >> The cultural contrast between that and your parent, IBM, couldn't be more dramatic. And we talked earlier with Paul Cormier about has IBM really walked the walk when it comes to leaving Red Hat alone. Naturally he said, "Yes." Well what's your perspective. >> Yeah, are there some big blue people across the street or something I heard that did this event, but look, do we interact with IBM? Of course. One of the reasons that IBM and IBM Services, both products and services should be able to help get us breadth in the marketplace. There are times that we go arm and arm into customer meetings and there are times that customers tell us, "I like Red Hat, I don't like IBM." And there's other ones that have been like, "Well, I'm a long time IBM, I'm not sure about Red Hat." And we have to be able to meet all of those customers where they are. But from my standpoint, I've got a Red Hat badge, I've got a Red Hat email, I've got Red Hat benefits. So we are fiercely independent. And you know, Paul, we've done blogs and there's lots of articles been written is, Red Hat will stay Red Hat. I didn't happen to catch Arvin I know was on CNBC today and talking at their event, but I'm sure Red Hat got mentioned, but... >> Well, he talks about Red Hat all time. >> But in his call he's talking backwards. >> It's interesting that he's not here, greeting this audience, right? It's again, almost by design, right? >> But maybe that's supposed to be... >> Hundreds of yards away. >> And one of the questions being in the cloud group is I'm not out pitching IBM Cloud, you know? If a customer comes to me and asks about, we have a deep partnership and IBM will be happy to tell you about our integrations, as opposed to, I'm happy to go into a deep discussion of what we're doing with Google, Amazon, and Microsoft. So that's how we do it. It's very different Dave, from you and I watch really closely the VMware-EMC, VMware-Dell, and how that relationship. This one is different. We are owned by IBM, but we mostly, it does IBM fund initiatives and have certain strategic things that are done, absolutely. But we maintain Red Hat. >> But there are similarities. I mean, VMware crowd didn't want to talk about EMC, but they had to, they were kind of forced to. Whereas, you're not being forced to. >> And then once Dell came in there, it was joint product development. >> I always thought a spin in. Would've been the more effective, of course, Michael Dell and Egon wouldn't have gotten their $40 billion out. But I think a spin in was more natural based on where they were going. And it would've been, I think, a more dominant position in the marketplace. They would've had more software, but again, financially it wouldn't have made as much sense, but that whole dynamic is different. I mean, but people said they were going to look at VMware as a model and it's been largely different because remember, VMware of course was a separate company, now is a fully separate company. Red Hat was integrated, we thought, okay, are they going to get blue washed? We're watching and watching, and watching, you had said, well, if the Red Hat culture isn't permeating IBM, then it's a failure. And I don't know if that's happening, but it's definitely... >> I think a long time for that. >> It's definitely been preserved. >> I mean, Dave, I know I read one article at the beginning of the year is, can Arvin make IBM, Microsoft Junior? Follow the same turnaround that Satya Nadella drove over there. IBM I think making some progress, I mean, I read and watch what you and the team are all writing about it. And I'll withhold judgment on IBM. Obviously, there's certain financial things that we'd love to see IBM succeed. We worry about our business. We do our thing and IBM shares our results and they've been solid, so. >> Microsoft had such massive cash flow that even bomber couldn't screw it up. Well, I mean, this is true, right? I mean, you think about how were relevant Microsoft was in the conversation during his tenure and yet they never got really... They maintained a position so that when the Nadella came in, they were able to reascend and now are becoming that dominant player. I mean, IBM just doesn't have that cash flow and that luxury, but I mean, if he pulls it off, he'll be the CEO of the decade. >> You mentioned partners earlier, big concern when the acquisition was first announced, was that the Dells and the HP's and the such wouldn't want to work with Red Hat anymore, you've sort of been here through that transition. Is that an issue? >> Not that I've seen, no. I mean, the hardware suppliers, the ISVs, the GSIs are all very important. It was great to see, I think you had Accenture on theCUBE today, obviously very important partner as we go to the cloud. IBM's another important partner, not only for IBM Cloud, but IBM Services, deep partnership with Azure and AWS. So those partners and from a technology standpoint, the cloud native ecosystem, we talked about, it's not just a Red Hat product. I constantly have to talk about, look, we have a lot of pieces, but your developers are going to have other tools that they're going to use and the security space. There is no such thing as a silver bullet. So I've been having some great conversations here already this week with some of our partners that are helping us to round out that whole solution, help our customers because it has to be, it's an ecosystem. And we're one of the drivers to help that move forward. >> Well, I mean, we were at Dell Tech World last week, and there's a lot of talk about DevSecOps and DevOps and Dell being more developer friendly. Obviously they got a long way to go, but you can't have that take that posture and not have a relationship with Red Hat. If all you got is Pivotal and VMware, and Tansu >> I was thrilled to hear the OpenShift mention in the keynote when they talked about what they were doing. >> How could you not, how could you have any credibility if you're just like, Oh, Pivotal, Pivotal, Pivotal, Tansu, Tansu. Tansu is doing its thing. And they smart strategy. >> VMware is also a partner of ours, but that we would hope that with VMware being independent, that does open the door for us to do more with them. >> Yeah, because you guys have had a weird relationship with them, under ownership of EMC and then Dell, right? And then the whole IBM thing. But it's just a different world now. Ecosystems are forming and reforming, and Dell's building out its own cloud and it's got to have... Look at Amazon, I wrote about this. I said, "Can you envision the day where Dell actually offers competitive products in its suite, in its service offering?" I mean, it's hard to see, they're not there yet. They're not even close. And they have this high say/do ratio, or really it's a low say/do, they say high say/do, but look at what they did with Nutanix. You look over- (chuckles) would tell if it's the Cisco relationship. So it's got to get better at that. And it will, I really do believe. That's new thinking and same thing with HPE. And, I don't know about Lenovo that not as much of an ecosystem play, but certainly Dell and HPE. >> Absolutely. Michael Dell would always love to poke at HPE and HP really went very far down the path of their own products. They went away from their services organization that used to be more like IBM, that would offer lots of different offerings and very much, it was HP Invent. Well, if we didn't invent it, you're not getting it from us. So Dell, we'll see, as you said, the ecosystems are definitely forming, converging and going in lots of different directions. >> But your position is, Hey, we're here, we're here to help. >> Yeah, we're here. We have customers, one of the best proof points I have is the solution that we have with Amazon. Amazon doesn't do the engineering work to make us a native offering if they didn't have the customer demand because Amazon's driven off of data. So they came to us, they worked with us. It's a lot of work to be able to make that happen, but you want to make it frictionless for customers so that they can adopt that. That's a long path. >> All right, so evening event, there's a customer event this evening upstairs in the lobby. Microsoft is having a little shin dig, and then serves a lot of customer dinners going on. So Stu, we'll see you out there tonight. >> All right, thanks you. >> Were watching a brewing somewhere. >> Keynotes tomorrow, a lot of good sessions and enablement, and yeah, it's great to be in person to be able to bump some people, meet some people and, Hey, I'm still a year and a half in still meeting a lot of my peers in person for the first time. >> Yeah, and that's kind of weird, isn't it? Imagine. And then we kick off tomorrow at 10:00 AM. Actually, Stephanie Chiras is coming on. There she is in the background. She's always a great guest and maybe do a little kickoff and have some fun tomorrow. So this is Dave Vellante for Stu Miniman, Paul Gillin, who's my co-host. You're watching theCUBEs coverage of Red Hat Summit 2022. We'll see you tomorrow. (bright music)

[Music] thecube's coverage of red hat summit 2022 thecube has been covering red hat summit for a number of years of course the last two years were virtual coverage now the red hat summit is one of the industry's most premier events and and typically red hat summits are many thousands of people i think the last one i went to was eight or nine thousand people very heavy developer conference this year red hat has taken a different approach it's a hybrid event it's kind of a vip event at the westin in boston with a lot more executives here than we would normally expect versus developers but a huge virtual audience my name is dave vellante i'm here with my co-host paul gillin paul this is a location that you and i have broadcast from many times and um of course 2019 the summer of 2019 ibm acquired red hat and um we of course we did red hat summit that year but now we're seeing a completely new red hat and a new ibm and you wouldn't know ibm owned red hat for what they've been talking about at this conference we just came out of the keynote where uh in the in the hour-long keynote ibm was not mentioned once and only appeared the logo only appeared once on the screen in fact so this is uh very much red hat being red hat not being a subsidiary at ibm and perhaps that's justified given that ibm's track record with acquisitions is that they gradually envelop the acquired company and and it becomes part of the ibm board yeah they blue wash the whole thing right it's ironic because ibm think is going on right across the street arvin krishna is here but no presence here and i think that's by design i mean it reminds me of when you know emc owned vmware you know the vmware team didn't want to publicize that they had an ecosystem of partners that they wanted to cater to and they wanted to treat everybody equally even though perhaps behind the scenes they were forced to do certain things that they might not have necessarily wanted to because they were owned by another company and i think that you know certainly ibm's done a good job of leaving the brand separate but when they talk about the con the conference calls ibm's earnings calls you certainly get a heavy dose of red hat when red hat was acquired by ibm it was just north of three billion dollars in revenue obviously ibm paid 34 billion dollars for the company actually by today's valuations probably a bargain you know despite the market sell-off in the last several months uh but now we've heard public statements from arvind kushner that that red hat is a 5 billion plus revenue company it's a little unclear what's in there of course when you listen to ibm earnings you know consulting is their big business red hat's growing at 21 but when i remember paul when red hat was acquired stu miniman and i did a session and i said this is not about cloud this is about consulting and modernizing applications and sure there's some cloud in there with openshift but from a financial standpoint ibm was able to take red hat and jam it right into its application modernization initiatives so it's hard to tell how much of that 5 billion is actually you know legacy red hat but i guess it doesn't matter anymore it's working ibm mathematics is notoriously opaque they if the business isn't going well it'll tend to be absorbed into another number in the in the earnings report that that does show some growth so we've heard uh certainly ibm talks a lot about red hat on its earnings calls it's very clear that red hat is the growth engine within ibm i'd say it's a bit of the tail wagging the dog right now where red hat really is dictating where ibm goes with its hypercloud strategy which is the foundation not only of its technology portfolio but of its consulting business and so red hat is really in the driver's seat of of hybrid cloud and that's the future for ibm and you see that very much at this conference where uh red hat is putting out its uh series of announcements today about improvements to his hybrid cloud the new release of route 9 red hat enterprise linux 9 improvements to its hybrid cloud portfolio it very much is going its own way with that and i sense that ibm is going to go along with wherever red hat chooses to go yeah i think you're absolutely right if by the way if you go to siliconangle.com paul just published a piece on red hat reds hats their roll out of their parade which of course is as you pointed out led by enterprise linux but to your point about hybrid cloud it is the linchpin of of certainly ibm strategy but many companies hybrid cloud strategies if you think about it openshift in particular it's it's the modern application development environment for kubernetes you can get kubernetes you can buy eks you can get that for free in a lot of places but you have to do dozens and dozens of things and acquire dozens of services to do what openshift does to get the reliability the recoverability the security and that's really red hat's play and they're the the thing about red hat combining with linux their linux heritage they're doing that everywhere it's going to open shift everywhere red hat everywhere whether it's on-prem in aws azure google out to the edge you heard paul cormier today saying he expects that in the next several years hardware is going to become one of the most important you know factors i agree i think we're going to enter a hardware renaissance you've seen the work that we've done on arm i think 2017 was when red hat and arm announced kind of their initial collaboration could have even been before that today we're hearing a lot about intel and nvidia and so affinity with all of these alternative processes i think they did throw in today in the keynote power and so i think i heard that that was the other ibm branding they sort of tucked that in there but the point is red hat runs everywhere so it's fundamental to building out hybrid cloud and that is fundamental to a lot of company strategies and red hat has been all over kubernetes with openshift it's i mean it's a drum beat here uh the openshift strategy is what really makes hybrid cloud possible because kubernetes is what makes it possible to shift workloads seamlessly from platform to platform you make an interesting point about hardware we have seen kind of a renaissance in hardware these last couple of years as these specific chipsets and uh and even full-scale processors have come to market we're seeing several in the ai area right now where startups are developing full-blown chipsets and and systems uh just for ai processing and nvidia of course that's that's really kind of their stock and trade these days so uh a a company that can run across all of those different platforms a platform like like rel which can run all across those different platforms is going to have a leg up on on anybody else and the implications for application development are considerable when you when you think about we talk about a lot about these alternative processes when flash replaced the spinning disk that had a huge impact on how applications are developed developers now didn't have to wait for that that disc to spin even though it's spinning very fast it's mechanical compared to electrons forget it and and the second big piece here is how memory is actually utilized the x86 you know traditional x86 you know memory everything goes through that core processor intel for years grabbed more and more function and you're seeing now that function become dispersed in fact a lot of people think we're moving from a processor-centric world to a connect centric world meaning connecting all these piece parts alternative processors memory controllers you know storage controllers io network interface cards smartnics and things like that where the communication across those resources is now where a lot of the innovation is going you see you're seeing a lot of that and now of course applications can take advantage of that especially now at the edge which is just a whole new frontier the edge certainly is part of that equation when you look at machine learning at training machine learning models the cpu actually does relatively little work most of it is happening in gpus in these parallel processes that are going on and the cpu is kind of acting as a traffic cop and you see that in the edge as well it's the same model at the edge where more of the intelligence is going to be out in discrete devices spread across the network and the cpu is going to be less of a uh you know less of a engine of intelligence at the same time though we've got cpus with we've got 100 core cpus are on the horizon and there are even 200 and 300 core cpus that we may see in the next uh in the next couple of years so cpus aren't standing still they are evolving to become really kind of super traffic cops for all of these other processors out in the network and on the edge so it's a very exciting time to be in hardware because so much innovation is happening really at the microprocessor level well we saw this you and i lived through the pc era and we saw a whole raft of applications come about as a result of the microprocessor the shift of the microprocessor-based economy we're going to see so we are seeing something similar with mobile and the edge you know just think about some of the numbers if you think about the traditional moore's law doubling a number of transistors every let's call it two years 18 to 24 months pat gelsinger at intel promises that intel is on that pace still but if you look at the apple m1 ultra they increased the transistor density 6x in the last 15 months okay so where is this another data point is the historical moore's law curve is 40 that's moderating to somewhere down you know down in the low 30s if you look at the apple a series i mean that thing is on average increasing performance at 110 a year when you add up into the combinatorial factors of the cpu the neural processing unit the gpu all the accelerators so we are seeing a new era the thing i i i wanted to bring up paul is you mentioned ai much of the ai work that's done today is modeling that's done in the cloud and when we talk about edge we think that the future of ai is ai inferencing in real time at the edge so you may not even be persisting that data but you're going to create a lot of data you're going to be operating on that data in streams and it's going to require a whole new new architectural thinking of hardware very low cost very low power very high performance to drive all that intelligence at the edge and a lot of that data is going to stay at the edge and and that's we're going to talk about some of that today with some of the ev innovations and the vehicle innovations and the intelligence in these vehicles yeah and in talking in its edge strategy which it outlined today and the announcements that are made today red hat very much uh playing to the importance of being able to run red hat enterprise linux at the edge the idea is you do these big machine learning models centrally and then you you take the you take what results from that and you move it out to smaller processors it's the only way we can cope with it with the explosion of data that will be uh that these sensors and other devices will be generating so some of the themes we're hearing in the uh announcements today that you wrote about paul obviously rel9 is huge uh red hat enterprise linux version nine uh new capabilities a lot of edge a lot of security uh new cross portfolio capabilities for the edge security in the software supply chain that's a big conversation especially post solar winds managed ansible when you think about red hat you really i think anyway about three things rel which is such as linux it powers the internet powers everything uh you think of openshift which is application development you think about ansible which is automation so itops so that's one of the announcements ansible on azure and then a lot of hybrid cloud talk and you're gonna hear a lot of talk this week about red hat's cloud services portfolio packaging red hat as services as managed services that's you know a much more popular delivery mechanism with clients because they're trying to make it easy and this is complicated stuff and it gets more complicated the more features they add and the more the more components of the red hat portfolio are are available it's it's gonna be complex to build these hybrid clouds so like many of these so thecube started doing physical events last summer by the way and so this is this is new to a lot of people uh they're here for the first time people are really excited we've definitely noticed a trend people are excited to be back together paul cormier talked about that he talked about the new normal you can define the new normal any way you want so paul cormier gave the uh the the intro keynote bidani interviewed amex stephanie cheris interviewed accenture both those firms are coming out stephanie's coming on with the in accenture as well matt hicks talked about product innovation i loved his reference to ada lovelace that was very cool he talked about uh serena uh ramyanajan a famous mathematician who nobody knew about when he was just a kid these were ignored individuals in the 1800s for years and years and years in the case of ada lovelace for a century even he asked the question what if we had discovered them earlier and acted on them and been able to iterate on them earlier and his point tied that to open source very brilliantly i thought and um keynotes which i appreciate are much shorter much shorter intimate they did a keynote in the round this time uh which i haven't seen before there's maybe a thousand people in there so a much smaller group much more intimate setting not a lot of back and forth but uh but there is there is a feeling of a more personal feel to this event than i've seen it past red hat summits yeah and i think that's a trend that we're going to see more of where the live audience is kind of the on the ground it's going to the vip audience but still catering to the virtual audience you don't want to lose them so that's why the keynotes are a lot tighter okay paul thank you for setting up red hat summit 2022 you're watching the cube's coverage we'll be right back wall-to-wall coverage for two days right after this short break [Music] you

>>Mm. Welcome back to the seaports in Boston City is abuzz. Bruins tonight, Celtics Tomorrow night. We're all excited. We're talking open source, which is a very exciting topic. Every company is using open source. I mean, it is the mainspring of innovation. I'm Dave along with my co host, Paul Dillon. And you're watching the cubes. Coverage of Red Hat. Summer 2022. Raj Raj Masinga is here. He's hybrid and emerging Platforms lead at Accenture and Ghetto Greber. Who's red hats? Business group lead eccentric. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming >>on. Thank you. >>Thank you, Raj. We saw in the keynote up there today with Stephanie. She's coming on tomorrow. Rockstar Stephanie. Cheers. Also a Boston sports fan, and I have to work at it, but you can talk about the history with red hat. How long have you guys been at this? And give us a journey update. >>Well, first of all, thanks for having us here. Um, yes, we are big fans of Red Hat and especially Stephanie. I get to I had the pleasure of working with a very closely, um, our relationship with Red Hat goes many, many years, decades I think. And but Paul, come here will tell you that. You know, we've been focused a lot with the formation of our new business unit in Cloud. First around, migrating to the public cloud. But now, as we focus more and more around how our clients begin to operate in the public cloud in the cloud ecosystem hybrid is coming much more into focus. And Red Hat is very much a key client of a key partner of us. So we go way back. But this is all about us doubling down and increasing our partnership and deepening it with them. >>So, uh, you talked today about hybrid Cloud is everything. And it seems like a couple of years ago there was focuses more on moving to the public cloud and getting off of private infrastructure. Has there been a change in the ways in which customers are thinking, are they gonna be hanging onto their private infrastructure longer, perhaps, than was expected a couple of years ago? >>I think the first of all, it's a very different industry by industry. If you look at retail or consumer goods, I think there's a big movement in terms of percentages of workloads that are getting moved onto public cloud. If you look at industries like banking or utilities or government, more regular financial services, more regulated industries. I think we are finding a much larger percentage of their workloads because of regulatory reasons and security reasons, etcetera. Our need to remain either on premise or in private cloud. So I think it very much depends on the industry. But regardless the hype, you know, especially with the movement to edge now hybrid is going to be, you know, permeating everything. So I think by industry depends. But but the edges driving a whole new flywheel. >>You know, we started the Cuban 2010, so the cloud was, you know, modern cloud. Anyway, it was like, say, four years in into it and at the time, to your point Raj Financial Services, there was an evil word. No way we're ever going to the cloud. No, that's changed, obviously. But then, when the financial crisis hit, >>you >>had so initially it was a lot of tyre kicking experimentation. When the financial crisis hit, you had a lot of CFO saying, Okay, let's shift Capex to Apex and so that was sort of a bridge. And then after we came out, it was like this spate of innovation. And then we saw that during the pandemic, where cloud migration was a high priority and or it was the lifeline. And now it sounds like customers are kind of rethinking to your earlier conversation. What is cloud? It's that operating model. So I wonder if you could sort of Can you confirm that's kind of the journey that customers are taking? Where are they today? What does it mean? There? You know the the operating model. What do they consider cloud? >>Um, you actually, you see it? It's like it's really try forward to the cloud. Uh, but where it was in the beginning, If it doesn't hype about Public Cloud, they become more and more aware that it's hybrid because they have to bring the legacy system and process into the cloud as well. And it takes more time that actually they have fought before. So it's like there was a process of learning and also like in the steps moving forward to the operating model because they also understand I cannot operate a cloud like I was operating in the classical way like my old data centre and everything. It needs all the capabilities it needs, all the skills and especially if you go in a hybrid world. And it's a hybrid operation between the classic traditional but also the new ways of how you operate into a cloud. And you really see also the financial services. Now, uh, we had, uh I mean watch presented at keynote. We had a client in Germany. He made a decision, a very traditional financial services clients providing the service to chairman saving banks. And they did this decision and I would say, if you have spoken to them 10 years ago, they will not go into the cloud. But now they went to the cloud via private cloud, and now they got the confidence about how to operate in it. And now they move forward into a public cloud. But from a private cloud into the public cloud. Today, after security, they have up Skilling on skills and people and they understand the process and what's really required and needed in order to have such an environment. >>Generally, what's the strategy with regard to modernisation organisations? More building like an abstraction layer? Uh, with microservices and then connecting to the cloud. Or are they actually rewriting applications to make them cloud native? What are you What are you advising clients from a strategy standpoint, and I know it depends, but, you know, it's >>a It's a great question. I think the genesis to that strategy is how they view infrastructure, Right? So you know, everyone is, has this kind of, I don't know that this is almost mythical opinion out there with cloud. You don't need to worry about your infrastructure. All the providers will worry about it, and you just need to move it there. But the opposite is true. It's really critical what your infrastructure strategy is as you move to the cloud, because depending on what workload you have, you know it can be on any one of the continuum that you described. So the first thing is, where do you want to house your workload? Is the question and that will drive. How what do you want to do with your application? Whether you want to just maintain it the way it is, Do you want to simply modernise it, keeping where it is, or do you want to completely risk in it or even eliminated. So so I think the entire basically the answer to your question around. Do we? What do we do with the application? Is fundamentally driven by what is your infrastructure strategy and what that workload needs to do for you. >>So I know you want to jump in, but I got to follow up. You're saying hardware matters because we heard Paul Corvino today talking about this hardware renaissance. I'm actually I just ran a power panel called. Does hardware still matter? You're saying it matters? >>Yeah. And and it doesn't. And infrastructure doesn't always. I mean, now that you can do infrastructure as code, right? I mean, I was at the Del summit last time and read That is a huge partner of Dell now, right? Which, you know, uh, was much more, uh, partnered with VM ware. But I think the whole ecosystem is opening up, and even the hardware providers are looking at this in a much more nimble way. But yes, it's very much part of the conversation. They haven't gone away. >>During your keynote. You outlined sort of your strategy. Going forward is called cloud first. Yes. What does cloud first mean? >>Well, um, we we want to make sure that when we talk about transformation of business with our clients, So extension always goes with the idea of an industry lens of solving a specific problem for a client. What is the business problem we solve? And increasingly, what we want to message and drive to our clients is if you're thinking about, regardless of what the business is technologies absolutely critical to whatever transformation you're doing and when. When you look at technology, you have to think cloud first because that's where all the innovation is happening. That's where all the, um um, investments are being driven. Whether it's an I mean, it's a software vendor, but it's a hardware vendor with its uh, so you have to think cloud first when you think about transforming your business. >>Uh, what is How does modernisation play into that? You know, a lot of vendors are throwing a lot of resources that the modernisation market VM ware, Tanzania and IBM and such, uh, how interesting our customers really a Modernising legacy applications >>hugely right, because fundamentally, I think everything is now driven by our experiences. What we now are used to in terms of, uh, interfacing with applications are interfacing with function sets or interfacing with technology. So there is a lot of inherent, um, legacy technology that doesn't have that experience. So when you think about transforming, you have to come at it from an experience point of view. And when you think in those terms modernisation or even rebuilding the same, even if it's the same function set, uh, re skinning it and modernisation is critical for the purposes of engagement. >>What's the number one challenge that customers that you're working with face in terms of modernisation? Is it trying to figure out like Rogers sort of laying out the portfolio? What do I do with it? Do I modernise it? Do I retire it? Do I let it just die on the vine? What's their number one challenge? >>Uh, mainly it depends also on the industry, but it's, uh, I would say, for the highly regulated, certainly regulations. They always have an own interpretation of the regulations. Regulation means for them, but normally it's not really what they understand. But I think this is more and more coming to Annie's and more people understand what it really means, but it's also what we see a lot. They think first about technology, but not what kind of business problem they want, Uh, and they want to solve. So it's like, instead of having a technology neutral discussion is really do want to achieve, um, to have really start on this side and then having this discussion away, which, obviously it's one of the key, even because they start to the cloud even without having a strategy without having a vision. If you have a clear vision, if you have a clear strategy, you know where you want to go, and then you can make your business case. You can make you architecture and then you decide on technology. And then, of course, on this journey, all the things about security compliance coming to the plane, Yeah, and I think I think that's the easiest approach. But clients struggle to understand. Of course, I mean, the technology is changing rapidly. Even new products and release cycle new life cycles, the complexity of all the tools hardware we mentioned before network is changing new working coming up. It's really hard to keep pace or keep up with the base of the technology and what's happening even for us. And then you understand the complexity and bring this complexity back to simplicity, but not without losing. We have this also keynote the efficiency and, uh, flexibility for an engineer, because that's what he needs >>to your clients. Have the skill sets to do all that such a self serving question to you guys. But but no, do they? I mean, there's a skills shortage. There's a a battle for talent. So how are they >>dealing? I mean, it's obvious the battle for talent is here. I mean, everybody is looking for the best talent, and if we need, if you need a full stack. Engineer, for example, is very hard to get a full stack engineer on your ground. You call really cloud native. So you have to up skill people to re skilled people. There's also a change coming into it and the changes not to forget. So it's what we say most time. The technology is an easy part, but the change change the organisation, change up skilled organisation. That's the hard part because you need to change from from one mindset to another, and we know from the from the past. What change? People are not open to change in general, so we need to change the mindset. >>I wanna go back to Hybrid Cloud because we have Dani from Red Hat was on earlier and he said, Edges really redefining the definition of hybrid cloud. It's it's more complex architecture, and it's changing the nature of how we think about hybrid Cloud. Are you seeing that with your customers? Are they changing their thinking about what hybrid means in that context? >>Yeah, completely. You know, I was I was We did a bunch of, uh, research recently, and I had I just wanted to make sure I called this. I mean, there's a flexible report that came out that says 80% of all enterprises now are on hybrid 89% multi cloud redheaded. A report that said 80% of our businesses are expected to, um, uh, increase their use of open source. Right, So So, yes, hybrid is everywhere. Edge is driving it, but there's a There's another critical element to that movement. The complexity of our clients. Estates are increasing because whether it's hybrid or whether it's edge or whatever, they are now. You know, given if you're a C i or a C T o. Your estate is really complex now. So one of the things that we now need to do is how do we simplify that? So, you know, we think and we've been talking with red hat about this. We need to come up with a clean, you know, we keep calling it, you know, single pane of glass for a enterprise that allows them to look at their estate in a way that allows them to then simply make some innovative decisions across the entire state. So, yes, edges driving hybrid. But the key thing that we now need to overcome is how do we manage that complexity? >>We have new term. Uh, I call it Super Cloud, but the session is a better word. Medic cloud. That's gonna what I think of that century. I think of deep industry expertise. Of course, we have that, but with the partnership from redhead, it's a very it's horizontal in the sense that it can go anywhere. So how do you guys work in in terms of within Accenture plugging into your deep industry expertise? And how does that horizontal redhead >>fit. That's a really good question. So, you know, one of the things, you know. First of all, we came out with a announcement today about our expanded relationship with Red Hat. One of the key elements in that announcement is how we are looking and bringing in red Hat into our industry business motions. So we actually have decided to pick a certain number of industries. You know, financial services is one. Telco is another. We are thinking about utilities in Europe. Public health is a is another one that we are looking at. And as we come up with our offerings, you heard me and Stephanie talk about joint offerings earlier on the keynote. Um, these offerings are industry offerings, but in those offerings we have embedded and we are, they're powered by redhead technology. Um, that allows these industry solutions to drive innovation through their technology. Um, yes. Red hat can be, for the most part, a horizontal cross industry, you know, technology. But you have to really bring them into specific industrial solutions because of the way we go to market. And I think Red hat brings innovation, uh, in a way that these industries haven't seen before. >>So I mean, how do you stay out of their way? Because they have a services operation that they're trying to grow. And that's your business as well. So where the lines of demarcation >>back to your question? I I don't I don't think there is a limiting opportunity. Read? Had, you know Stephanie Me, Paul, we're all talking about How do we collectively increase both our armies? You know, I I Yes, there might be occasional overlaps in the trenches, but when you look at the bigger picture, it is not a problem at all. >>I wouldn't think so. I mean, the way you're describing Rogers exactly the way it should work. You lead with the business, figure out the business problem, how you're gonna solve that. The technology will take care of itself. Technologies come and they go. And you want to use modern technologies, obviously. But if you don't get the business piece right, forget no technology is gonna save you >>exactly, right. And and the complexities of what the businesses today are facing is getting more and more difficult. And I think actually, technologies like red hat, you know, they're the whole concept of open source, I think is very creative around driving innovations from the market. I >>want to ask you that because Paul Kermie is you know, the storey was sort of an homage to open source. How much do customers really care about open source >>customers care about innovation and and anything that drives innovation to their business, whether it's whether it comes from technology, whether it comes from crowdsourcing, whether it comes from, you know, uh, marketing doesn't matter. I think when you look at the key hunger for innovation and how open source drives innovation, it becomes part of the business conversation. And, uh and I think that's been one of the mantras that Paul has had from day one about how this is such a great platform for innovation. And I think that's >>something customers asked for. They say we must develop this using open source platforms and tool sets. >>Um, it depends. I think I think there are some technology CEO s R c T O s that are much more religious about what? Their technologies that needs to be there are others that are that are much more business oriented. Um, so yes, there are. You know, if it's more in telecom field, I think telecom or some of the more, uh, technology driven fields, they will ask for open source. In others, they we bring, bring it through as part of offering. >>Here's the nuance that I see and you mentioned Paul Cormier. Accenture, especially. I mean, you look at your ascendancy as a company, you for years would take known processes and codify them in software. And you made, you know, a lot of great innovations doing that. And people who made a lot of >>money >>today, this new normal, he calls it. I call it the new abnormal. You don't know what's around the corner. You have to build flexibility into your business, and that is something that open source enables. Uh, so that's sort of this, Really Not really. We don't want to speak about it too much. Business resiliency and flexibility is that that is the new normal. I don't see how you can do it without without open sources expertise. >>I completely agree that I and I think, um, it's actually an asset. So you know, in some ways, selfishly, by having open source in a solution stack some of the innovation gets them much more democratised, right? So? So it can come from a much broader sweet. So the load is not only an extension to come up with all the innovation we can, we can actually come up with a more democratised way of bringing that innovation in. So I think that's that's >>great. And it doesn't always go back to the community. I mean, Amazon built a $70 billion business on open source, but not all right, guys. Thanks so much for coming. Thank you very much for having a pleasure. All right, keep it right there. This is Dave Volonte for Paul Dillon. The Cubes. Continuous coverage of Red Hat Summit 2022 from the seaport in Boston. We'll be right back. >>Mm mm.

welcome back to the seaport in boston massachusetts with cities crazy with bruins and celtics talk but we're here we're talking red hat linux open shift ansible and ashesh badani is here he's the senior vice president and the head of products at red hat fresh off the keynotes had amex up in the state of great to see you face to face amazing that we're here now after two years of of the isolation economy welcome back thank you great to see you again as well and you as well paul yeah so no shortage of announcements uh from red hat this week paul wrote a piece on siliconangle.com i got my yellow highlights i've been through all the announcements which is your favorite baby hard for me to choose hard for me to choose um i'll talk about real nine right well nine's exciting um and in a weird way it's exciting because it's boring right because it's consistent three years ago we committed to releasing a major well uh every three years right so customers partners users can plan for it so we released the latest version of rel in between we've been delivering releases every six months as well minor releases a lot of capabilities that are bundled in around security automation edge management and then rel is also the foundation of the work we announced with gm with the in-vehicle operating system so you know that's extremely exciting news for us as well and the collaboration that we're doing with them and then a whole host of other announcements around you know cloud services work around devsecops and so on so yeah a lot of news a lot of announcements i would say rel nine and the work with gm probably you know comes right up to the top i wanted to get to one aspect of the rail 9 announcement that is the the rose centos streams in that development now in december i think it was red hat discontinued development or support for for centos and moved to central streams i'm still not clear what the difference is between the two can you clarify that i think we go into a situation especially with with many customers many partners as well that you know didn't sort of quite exactly uh get a sense of you know where centos was from a life cycle perspective so was it upstream to rel was it downstream to rel what's the life cycle for itself as well and then there became some sort of you know implied notions around what that looked like and so what we decided was to say well we'll make a really clean break and we'll say centos stream is the upstream for enterprise linux from day one itself partners uh you know software partners hardware partners can collaborate with us to develop rel and then take it all the way through life cycle right so now it becomes a true upstream a true place for development for us and then rel essentially comes uh out as a series of releases based on the work that we do in a fast-moving center-os environment but wasn't centos essentially that upstream uh development environment to begin with what's the difference between centos stream yeah it wasn't wasn't um it wasn't quite upstream it was actually a little bit downstream yeah it was kind of bi-directional yeah and yeah and so then you know that sort of became an implied life cycle to it when there really wasn't one but it was just became one because of some usage and adoption and so now this really clarifies the relationship between the two we've heard feedback for example from software partners users saying hey what do i do for development because i used you know centervis in the past we're like yup we have real for developers available we have rel for small teams available we have rel available for non-profit organizations up and so we've made rail now available in various form factors for the needs that folks had and they were perhaps using centos for because there was no such alternative or rel history so language so now it's this clarity so that's really the key point there so language matters a lot in the technology business we've seen it over the years the industry coalesces around you know terminology whether it was the pc era everything was pc this pc that the internet era and and certainly the cloud we we learned a lot of language from the likes of you know aws two pizza teams and working backwards and things like that became common commonplace hybrid and multi-cloud are kind of the the parlance of the day you guys use hybrid you and i have talked about this i feel like there's something new coming i don't think my term of super cloud is the right necessary terminology but it signifies something different and i feel like your announcements point to that within your hybrid umbrella point being so much talk about the edge and it's we heard paul cormier talk about new hardware architectures and you're seeing that at the edge you know what you're doing with the in-vehicle operating system these are new the cloud isn't just a a bunch of remote services in the cloud anymore it's on-prem it's a cloud it's cross-clouds it's now going out to the edge it's something new and different i think hybrid is your sort of term for that but it feels like it's transcending hybrid are your thoughts you know really really great question actually since you and i talked dave i've been spending some time you know sort of noodling just over that right and you're right right there's probably some terminology something sort of you know that will get developed you know either by us or you know in collaboration with the industry you know where we sort of almost have the connection almost like a meta cloud right that we're sort of working our way towards because there's if you will you know the cloud right so you know on premise you know virtualized uh bare metal by the way you know increasingly interesting and important you know we do a lot of work with nvidia folks want to run specific workloads there we announced support for arm right another now popular architecture especially as we go out to the edge so obviously there's private cloud public cloud then the edge becomes a continuum now you know on that process we actually have a major uh uh shipping company so uh a cruise lines that's talking about using openshift on cruise lines right so you know that's the edge right last year we had verizon talking about you know 5g and you know ran in the next generation there to then that's the edge when we talk to retail the store front's the edge right you talk to a bank you know the bank environments here so everyone's got a different kind of definition of edge we're working with them and then when we you know announce this collaboration with gm right now the edge there becomes the automobile so if you think of this as a continuum right you know bare metal private cloud public cloud take it out to the edge now we're sort of almost you know living in a world of you know a little bit of abstractions and making sure that we are focused on where uh data is being generated and then how can we help ensure that we're providing a consistent experience regardless of you know where meta meta cloud because i can work in nfts i can work a little bit we're going to get through this whole thing without saying metaverse i was hoping i do want to ask you about about the edge and the proliferation of hardware platforms paul comey mentioned this during the keynote today hardware is becoming important yeah there's a lot of people building hardware it's in development now for areas like uh like intelligent devices and ai how does this influence your development priorities you have all these different platforms that you need to support yeah so um we think about that a lot mostly because we have engagements with so many partners hardware right so obviously there's more traditional partners i'd say like the dell and the hpes that we work with we've historically worked with them also working with them in in newer areas uh with regard to appliances that are being developed um and then the work that we do with partners like nvidia or new architectures like arm and so our perspective is this will be uh use case driven more than anything else right so there are certain environments right where you have arm-based devices other environments where you've got specific workloads that can take advantage of being built on gpus that we'll see increasingly being used especially to address that problem and then provide a solution towards that so our belief has always been look we're going to give you a consistent platform a consistent abstraction across all these you know pieces of hardware um and so you mr miss customer make the best choice for yourself a couple other areas we have to hit on i want to talk about cloud services we've got to talk about security leave time to get there but why the push to cloud services what's driving that it's actually customers they're driving right so we have um customers consistently been asking us say you know love what you give us right want to make sure that's available to us when we consume in the cloud so we've made rel available for example on demand right you can consume this directly via public cloud consoles we are now making available via marketplaces uh talked about ansible available as a managed service on azure openshift of course available as a managed service in multiple clouds um all of this also is because you know we've got customers who've got these uh committed spends that they have you know with cloud providers they want to make sure that the environments that they're using are also counting towards that at the same time give them flexibility give them the choice right if in certain situations they want to run in the data center great we have that solution for them other cases they want to procure from the cloud and run it there we're happy to support them there as well let's talk about security because you have a lot of announcements like security everywhere yeah um and then some specific announcements as well i i always think about these days in the context of the solar wind supply chain hack would this have you know how would this have affected it but tell us about what's going on in security your philosophy there and the announcements that you guys made so our secure announcements actually span our entire portfolio yeah right and and that's not an accident right that's by design because you know we've really uh been thinking and emphasizing you know how we ensure that security profile is raised for users both from a malicious perspective and also helping accidental issues right so so both matters so one huge amounts of open source software you know out of the world you know and then estimates are you know one in ten right has some kind of security vulnerability um in place a massive amount of change in where software is being developed right so rate of change for example in kubernetes is dramatic right much more than even than linux right entire parts of kubernetes get rewritten over over a three-year period of time so as you introduce all that right being able to think for example about you know what's known as shift left security or devsec ops right how do we make sure we move security closer to where development is actually done how do we ensure we give you a pattern so you know we introduced a software supply chain pattern uh via openshift delivers complete stack of code that you know you can go off and run that follows best practices uh including for example for developers you know with git ops and support on the pipelines front a whole bunch of security capabilities in rel um a new image integrity measurement architecture which allows for a better ability to see in a post install environment what the integrity of the packages are signing technology they're incorporating open shift as well as an ansible so it's it's a long long list of cables and features and then also more and more defaults that we're putting in place that make it easier for example for someone not to hurt themselves accidentally on security front i noticed that uh this today's batch of announcements included support within openshift pipelines for sigstor which is an open source project that was birthed actually at red hat right uh we haven't heard a whole lot about it how important is zig store to to you know your future product direction yeah so look i i think of that you know as you know work that's you know being done out of our cto's office and obviously security is a big focus area for them um six store's great example of saying look how can we verify content that's in uh containers make sure it's you know digitally signed that's appropriate uh to be deployed across a bunch of environments but that thinking isn't maybe unique uh for us uh in the container side mostly because we have you know two decades or more of thinking about that on the rel side and so fundamentally containers are being built on linux right so a lot of the lessons that we've learned a lot of the expertise that we've built over the years in linux now we're starting to you know use that same expertise trying to apply it to containers and i'm my guess is increasingly we're going to see more of the need for that you know into the edge as well i i i picked up on that too let me ask a follow-up question on sigstor so if i'm a developer and i and i use that capability it it ensures the provenance of that code is it immutable the the signature uh and the reason i ask is because again i think of everything in the context of the solar winds where they were putting code into the the supply chain and then removing it to see what happened and see how people reacted and it's just a really scary environment yeah the hardest part you know in in these environments is actually the behavior change so what's an example of that um packages built verified you know by red hat when it went from red hat to the actual user have we been able to make sure we verify the integrity of all of those when they were put into use um and unless we have behavior that you know make sure that we do that then we find ourselves in trouble in the earliest days of open shift uh we used to get knocked a lot by by developers because i said hey this platform's really hard to use we investigate hey look why is that happening so by default we didn't allow for root access you know and so someone's using you know the openshift platform they're like oh my gosh i can't use it right i'm so used to having root access we're like no that's actually sealed by default because that's not a good security best practice now over a period of time when we you know randomly enough times explained that enough times now behavior changes like yeah that makes sense now right so even just kind of you know there's behaviors the more that we can do for example in in you know the shift left which is one of the reasons by the way why we bought uh sac rocks a year right right for declarative security contain native security so threat detection network segmentation uh watching intrusions you know malicious behavior is something that now we can you know essentially make native into uh development itself all right escape key talk futures a little bit so i went downstairs to the expert you know asked the experts and there was this awesome demo i don't know if you've seen it of um it's like a design thinking booth with what happened how you build an application i think they were using the who one of their apps um during covet and it's you know shows the the granularity of the the stack and the development pipeline and all the steps that have to take place and it strikes me of something we've talked about so you've got this application development stack if you will and the database is there to support that and then over here you've got this analytics stack and it's separate and we always talk about injecting more ai into apps more data into apps but there's separate stacks do you see a day where those two stacks can come together and if not how do we inject more data and ai into apps what are your thoughts on that so great that's another area we've talked about dave in the past right um so we definitely agree with that right and and what final shape it takes you know i think we've got some ideas around that what we started doing is starting to pick up specific areas where we can start saying let's go and see what kind of usage we get from customers around it so for example we have openshift data science which is basically a way for us to talk about ml ops right and you know how can we have a platform that allows for different models that you can use we can uh test and train data different frameworks that you can then deploy in an environment of your choice right and we run that uh for you up and assist you in in uh making sure that you're able to take the next steps you want with with your machine learning algorithms um there's work that we've uh introduced at summit around databases service so essentially our uh a cloud service that allows for deep as an easy way for customers to access either mongodb or or cockroach in a cloud native fashion and all of these things that we're sort of you know experimenting with is to be able to say look how do we sort of bring the world's closer together right off database of data of analytics with a core platform and a core stack because again right this will become part of you know one continuum that we're going to work with it's not i'd like your continuum that's that's i think really instructive it's not a technical barrier is what i'm hearing it's maybe organizational mindset i can i should be able to insert a column into my my my application you know development pipeline and insert the data i mean kafka tensorflow in there there's no technical reason i can't can't do that it's just we've created these sort of separate stovepipe organizations 100 right right so they're different teams right you've got the platform team or the ops team and you're a separate dev team there's a separate data team there's a separate storage team and each of them will work you know slightly differently independently right so the question then is i mean that's sort of how devops came along then you're like oh wait a minute yeah don't forget security and now we're at devsecops right so the more of that that we can kind of bring together i think the more convergence that we'll see when i think about the in-vehicle os i see the the that is a great use case for real-time ai inferencing streaming data i wanted to ask you that about that real quickly because at the very you know just before the conference began we got an announcement about gm but your partnership with gm it seems like this came together very quickly why is it so important for red hat this is a whole new category of application that you're going to be working on yeah so we've been working with gm not publicly for a while now um and it was very clear that look you know gm believes this is the future right you know electric vehicles into autonomous driving and we're very keen to say we believe that a lot of attributes that we've got in rel that we can bring to bear in a different form factor to assist with the different needs that exist in this industry so one it's interesting for us because we believe that's a use case that you know we can add value to um but it's also the future of automotive right so the opportunity to be able to say look we can get open source technology we can collaborate out with the community to fundamentally help transform that industry uh towards where it wants to go you know that that's just the passion that we have that you know is what wakes us up every morning you're opening into that yeah thank you for coming on the cube really appreciate your time and your insights and uh have a great rest of rest of the event thank you for having me metacloud it's a thing it's a thing right it's it's it's kind of there we're gonna we're gonna see it emerge over the next decade all right you're watching the cube's coverage of red hat summit 2022 from boston keep it right there be right back you

>> From around the globe, it's theCUBE, with coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2021 Virtual. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon 2021 CloudNativeCon Europe Virtual, I'm John Furrier your host, preview with Brian Gracely from Red Hat Senior Director Product Strategy Cloud Business Unit Brian Gracely great to see you. Former CUBE host CUBE alumni, big time strategist at Red Hat, great to see you, always great. And also the founder of Cloudcast which is an amazing podcast on cloud, part of the cloud (indistinct), great to see you Brian. Hope's all well. >> Great to see you too, you know for years, theCUBE was always sort of the ESPN of tech, I feel like, you know ESPN has become nothing but highlights. This is where all the good conversation is. It's theCUBE has become sort of the the clubhouse of tech, if you will. I know that's that's an area you're focused on, so yeah I'm excited to be back on and good to talk to you. >> It's funny you know, with all the events going away loved going out extracting the signal from the noise, you know, game day kind of vibe. CUBE Virtual has really expanded, so it's been so much more fun because we can get more people easy to dial in. So we're going to keep that feature post COVID. You're going to hear more about theCUBE Virtual hybrid events are going to be a big part of it, which is great because as you know and we've talked about communities and ecosystems are huge advantage right now it's been a big part of the Red Hat story. Now part of IBM bringing that mojo to the table the role of ecosystems with hybrid cloud is so critical. Can you share your thoughts on this? Because I know you study it, you have podcasts you've had one for many years, you understand that democratization and this new direct to audience kind of concept. Share your thoughts on this new ecosystem. >> Yeah, I think so, you know, we're sort of putting this in the context of what we all sort of familiarly call KubeCon but you know, if we think about it, it started as KubeCon it was sort of about this one technology but it's always been CloudNativeCon and we've sort of downplayed the cloud native part of it. But even if we think about it now, you know Kubernetes to a certain extent has kind of, you know there's this feeling around the community that, that piece of the puzzle is kind of boring. You know, it's 21 releases in, and there's lots of different offerings that you can get access to. There's still, you know, a lot of innovation but the rest of the ecosystem has just exploded. So it's, you know, there are ecosystem partners and companies that are working on edge and miniaturization. You know, we're seeing things like Kubernetes now getting into outer space and it's in the space station. We're seeing, you know, Linux get on Mars. But we're also seeing, you know, stuff on the other side of the spectrum. We're sort of seeing, you know awesome people doing database work and streaming and AI and ML on top of Kubernetes. So, you know, the ecosystem is doing what you'd expect it to do once one part of it gets stable. The innovation sort of builds on top of it. And, you know, even though we're virtual, we're still seeing just tons and tons of contributions, different companies different people stepping up and leading. So it's been really cool to watch the last few years. >> Yes, interesting point about the CloudNativeCon. That's an interesting insight, and I totally agree with you. And I think it's worth double clicking on. Let me just ask you, because when you look at like, say Kubernetes, okay, it's enabled a lot. Okay, it's been called the dial tone of Cloud native. I think Pat Gelsinger of VMware used that term. We call it the kind of the interoperability layer it enables more large scale deployments. So you're seeing a lot more Kubernetes enablement on clusters. Which is causing more hybrid cloud which means more Cloud native. So it actually is creating a network effect in and of itself with more Cloud native components and it's changing the development cycle. So the question I want to ask you is one how does a customer deal with that? Because people are saying, I like hybrid. I agree, Multicloud is coming around the corner. And of course, Multicloud is just a subsystem of resource underneath hybrid. How do I connect it all? Now I have multiple vendors, I have multiple clusters. I'm cross-cloud, I'm connecting multiple clouds multiple services, Kubernetes clusters, some get stood up some gets to down, it's very dynamic. >> Yeah, it's very dynamic. It's actually, you know, just coincidentally, you know, our lead architect, a guy named Clayton Coleman, who was one of the Kubernetes founders, is going to give a talk on sort of Kubernetes is this hybrid control plane. So we're already starting to see the tentacles come out of it. So you know how we do cross cloud networking how we do cross cloud provisioning of services. So like, how do I go discover what's in other clouds? You know and I think like you said, it took people a few years to figure out, like how do I use this new thing, this Kubernetes thing. How do I harness it. And, but the demand has since become "I have to do multi-cloud." And that means, you know, hey our company acquires companies, so you know, we don't necessarily know where that next company we acquire is going to run. Are they going to run on AWS? Are they going to, you know, run on Azure I've got to be able to run in multiple places. You know, we're seeing banking industries say, "hey, look cloud's now a viable target for you to put your applications, but you have to treat multiple clouds as if they're your backup domains." And so we're, you know, we're seeing both, you know the way business operates whether it's acquisitions or new things driving it. We're seeing regulations driving hybrid and multi-cloud and, even you know, even if the stalwart were to you know, set for a long time, well the world's only going to be public cloud and sort of you know, legacy data centers even those folks are now coming around to "I've got to bring hybrid to, to these places." So it's been more than just technology. It's been, you know, industries pushing it regulations pushing it, a lot of stuff. So, but like I said, we're going to be talking about kind of our future, our vision on that, our future on that. And, you know Red Hat everything we end up doing is a community activity. So we expect a lot of people will get on board with it >> You know, for all the old timers out there they can relate to this. But I remember in the 80's the OSI Open Systems Interconnect, and I was chatting with Paul Cormier about this because we were kind of grew up through that generation. That disrupted network protocols that were proprietary and that opened the door for massive, massive growth massive innovation around just getting that interoperability with TCP/IP, and then everything else happened. So Kubernetes does that, that's a phenomenal impact. So Cloud native to me is at that stage where it's totally next-gen and it's happening really fast. And a lot of people getting caught off guard, Brian. So you know, I got to to ask you as a product strategist, what's your, how would you give them the navigation of where that North star is? If I'm a customer, okay, I got to figure out where I got to navigate now. I know it's super volatile, changing super fast. What's your advice? >> I think it's a couple of pieces, you know we're seeing more and more that, you know, the technology decisions don't get driven out of sort of central IT as much anymore right? We sort of talk all the time that every business opportunity, every business project has a technology component to it. And I think what we're seeing is the companies that tend to be successful with it have built up the muscle, built up the skill set to say, okay, when this line of business says, I need to do something new and innovative I've got the capabilities to sort of stand behind that. They're not out trying to learn it new they're not chasing it. So that's a big piece of it, is letting the business drive your technology decisions as opposed to what happened for a long time which was we built out technology, we hope they would come. You know, the other piece of it is I think because we're seeing so much push from different directions. So we're seeing, you know people put technology out at the edge. We're able to do some, you know unique scalable things, you know in the cloud and so forth That, you know more and more companies are having to say, "hey, look, I'm not, I'm not in the pharmaceutical business. I'm not in the automotive business, I'm in software." And so, you know the companies that realize that faster, and then, you know once they sort of come to those realizations they realize, that's my new normal, those are the ones that are investing in software skills. And they're not afraid to say, look, you know even if my existing staff is, you know, 30 years of sort of history, I'm not afraid to bring in some folks that that'll break a few eggs and, you know, and use them as a lighthouse within their organization to retrain and sort of reset, you know, what's possible. So it's the business doesn't move. That's the the thing that drives all of them. And it's, if you embrace it, we see a lot of success. It's the ones that, that push back on it really hard. And, you know the market tends to sort of push back on them as well. >> Well we're previewing KubeCon CloudNativeCon. We'll amplify that it's CloudNativeCon as well. You guys bought StackRox, okay, so interesting company, not an open source company they have soon to be, I'm assuring, but Advanced Cluster Security, ACS, as it's known it's really been a key part of Red Hat. Can you give us the strategy behind that deal? What does that product, how does it fit in that's a lot of people are really talking about this acquisition. >> Yeah so here's the way we looked at it, is we've learned a couple of things over the last say five years that we've been really head down in Kubernetes, right? One is, we've always embedded a lot of security capabilities in the platform. So OpenShift being our core Kubernetes platform. And then what's happened over time is customers have said to us, "that's great, you've made the platform very secure" but the reality is, you know, our software supply chain. So the way that we build applications that, you know we need to secure that better. We need to deal with these more dynamic environments. And then once the applications are deployed they interact with various types of networks. I need to better secure those environments too. So we realized that we needed to expand our functionality beyond the core platform of OpenShift. And then the second thing that we've learned over the last number of years is to be successful in this space, it's really hard to take technology that wasn't designed for containers, or it wasn't designed for Kubernetes and kind of retrofit it back into that. And so when we were looking at potential acquisition targets, we really narrowed down to companies whose fundamental technologies were you know, Kubernetes-centric, you know having had to modify something to get to Kubernetes, and StackRox was really the leader in that space. They really, you know have been the leader in enterprise Kubernetes security. And the great thing about them was, you know not only did they have this Kubernetes expertise but on top of that, probably half of their customers were already OpenShift customers. And about 3/4 of their customers were using you know, native Kubernetes services and other clouds. So, you know, when we went and talked to them and said, "Hey we believe in Kubernetes, we believe in multi-cloud. We believe in open source," they said, "yeah, those are all the foundational things for us." And to your point about it, you know, maybe not being an open source company, they actually had a number of sort of ancillary projects that were open source. So they weren't unfamiliar to it. And then now that the acquisition's closed, we will do what we do with every piece of Red Hat technology. We'll make sure that within a reasonable period of time that it's made open source. And so you know, it's good for the community. It allows them to keep focusing on their innovation. >> Yeah you've got to get that code out there cool. Brian, I'm hearing about Platform Plus what is that about? Take us through that. >> Yeah, so you know, one of the things that our customers, you know, have come to us over time is it's you know, it's like, I've been saying kind of throughout this discussion, right? Kubernetes is foundational, but it's become pretty stable. The things that people are solving for now are like, you highlighted lots and lots of clusters, they're all over the place. That was something that our advanced cluster management capabilities were able to solve for people. Once you start getting into lots of places you've got to be able to secure things everywhere you go. And so OpenShift for us really allows us to bundle together, you know, sort of the complete set of the portfolio. So the platform, security management, and it also gives us the foundational pieces or it allows our customers to buy the foundational pieces that are going to help them do multi and hybrid cloud. And, you know, when we bundle that we can save them probably 25% in terms of sort of product acquisition. And then obviously the integration work we do you know, saves a ton on the operational side. So it's a new way for us to, to not only bundle the platform and the technologies but it gets customers in a mindset that says, "hey we've moved past sort of single environments to hybrid and multi-cloud environments. >> Awesome, well thanks for the update on that, appreciate it. One of the things going into KubeCon, and that we're watching closely is this Cloud native developer action. Certainly end users want to get that in a separate section with you but the end user contribution, which is like exploding. But on the developer side there's a real trend towards adding stronger consistency programmability support for more use cases okay. Where it's becoming more of a data platform as a requirement. >> Brian: Right. >> So how, so that's a trend so I'm kind of thinking, there's no disagreement on that. >> Brian: No, absolutely. >> What does that mean? Like I'm a customer, that sounds good. How do I make that happen? 'Cause that's the critical discussion right now in the DevOps, DevSecOps day, two operations. What you want to call it. This is the number one concern for developers and that solution architect, consistency, programmability more use cases with data as a platform. >> Yeah, I think, you know the way I kind of frame this up was you know, for any for any organization, the last thing you want to to do is sort of keep investing in lots of platforms, right? So platforms are great on their surface but once you're having to manage five and six and, you know 10 or however many you're managing, the economies of scale go away. And so what's been really interesting to watch with Kubernetes is, you know when we first got started everything was Cloud native application but that really was sort of, you know shorthand for stateless applications. We quickly saw a move to, you know, people that said, "Hey I can modernize something, you know, a Stateful application and we add that into Kubernetes, right? The community added the ability to do Stateful applications and that got people a certain amount of the way. And they sort of started saying, okay maybe Kubernetes can help me peel off some things of an existing platform. So I can peel off, you know Java workloads or I can peel off, what's been this explosion is the data community, if you will. So, you know, the TensorFlows the PItorches, you know, the Apache community with things like Couchbase and Kafka, TensorFlow, all these things that, you know maybe in the past didn't necessarily, had their own sort of underlying system are now defaulting to Kubernetes. And what we see because of that is, you know people now can say, okay, these data workloads these AI and ML workloads are so important to my business, right? Like I can directly point to cost savings. I can point to, you know, driving innovation and because Kubernetes is now their default sort of way of running, you know we're seeing just sort of what used to be, you know small islands of clusters become these enormous footprints whether they're in the cloud or in their data center. And that's almost become, you know, the most prevalent most widely used use case. And again, it makes total sense. It's exactly the trends that we've seen in our industry, even before Kubernetes. And now people are saying, okay, I can consolidate a lot of stuff on Kubernetes. I can get away from all those silos. So, you know, that's been a huge thing over the last probably year plus. And the cool thing is we've also seen, you know the hardware vendors. So whether it's Intel or Nvidia, especially around GPUs, really getting on board and trying to make that simpler. So it's not just the software ecosystem. It's also the hardware ecosystem, really getting on board. >> Awesome, Brian let me get your thoughts on the cloud versus the power dynamics between the cloud players and the open source software vendors. So what's the Red Hat relationship with the cloud players with the hybrid architecture, 'cause you want to set up the modern day developer environment, we get that right. And it's hybrid, what's the relationship with the cloud players? >> You know, I think so we we've always had two philosophies that haven't really changed. One is, we believe in open source and open licensing. So you haven't seen us look at the cloud as, a competitive threat, right? We didn't want to make our business, and the way we compete in business, you know change our philosophy in software. So we've always sort of maintained open licenses permissive licenses, but the second piece is you know, we've looked at the cloud providers as very much partners. And mostly because our customers look at them as partners. So, you know, if Delta Airlines or Deutsche Bank or somebody says, "hey that cloud provider is going to be our partner and we want you to be part of that journey, we need to be partners with that cloud as well." And you've seen that sort of manifest itself in terms of, you know, we haven't gone and set up new SaaS offerings that are Red Hat offerings. We've actually taken a different approach than a lot of the open source companies. And we've said we're going to embed our capabilities, especially, you know OpenShift into AWS, into Azure into IBM cloud working with Google cloud. So we'd look at them very much as a partner. I think it aligns to how Red Hat's done things in the past. And you know, we think, you know even though it maybe easy to sort of see a way of monetizing things you know, changing licensing, we've always found that, you've got to allow the ecosystem to compete. You've got to allow customers to go where they want to go. And we try and be there in the most consumable way possible. So that's worked out really well for us. >> So I got to bring up the end user participation component. That's a big theme here at KubeCon going into it and around the event is, and we've seen this trend happen. I mean, Envoy, Lyft the laying examples are out there. But they're more end-use enterprises coming in. So the enterprise class I call classic enterprise end user participation is at an all time high in opensource. You guys have the biggest portfolio of enterprises in the business. What's the trend that you're seeing because it used to be limited to the hyperscalers the Lyfts and the Facebooks and the big guys. Now you have, you know enterprises coming in the business model is working, can you just share your thoughts on CloudNativeCons participation for end users? >> Yeah, I think we're definitely seeing a blurring of lines between what used to be the Silicon Valley companies were the ones that would create innovation. So like you mentioned Lyft, or, you know LinkedIn doing Kafka or Twitter doing you know, whatever. But as we've seen more and more especially enterprises look at themselves as software companies right. So, you know if you talk about, you know, Ford or Volkswagen they think of themselves as a software company, almost more than they think about themselves as a car company, right. They're a sort of mobile transportation company you know, something like that. And so they look at themselves as I've got to I've got to have software as an expertise. I've got to compete for the best talent, no matter where that talent is, right? So it doesn't have to be in Detroit or in Germany or wherever I can go get that anywhere. And I think what they really, they look for us to do is you know, they've got great technology chops but they don't always understand kind of the the nuances and the dynamics of open-source right. They're used to having their own proprietary internal stuff. And so a lot of times they'll come to us, not you know, "Hey how do we work with the project?" But you know like here's new technology. But they'll come to us and they'll say "how do we be good, good stewards in this community? How do we make sure that we can set up our own internal open source office and have that group, work with communities?" And so the dynamics have really changed. I think a lot of them have, you know they've looked at Silicon Valley for years and now they're modeling it, but it's, you know, for us it's great because now we're talking the same language, you know we're able to share sort of experiences we're able to share best practices. So it is really, really interesting in terms of, you know, how far that whole sort of software is eating the world thing is materialized in sort of every industry. >> Yeah and it's the workloads of expanding Cloud native everywhere edge is blowing up big time. Brian, final question for you before we break. >> You bet. >> Thanks for coming on and always great to chat with you. It's always riffing and getting the data out too. What's your expectation for KubeCon CloudNativeCon this year? What are you expecting to see? What highlights do you expect will come out of CloudNativeCon KubeCon this year? >> Yeah, I think, you know like I said, I think it's going to be much more on the Cloud native side, you know we're seeing a ton of new communities come out. I think that's going to be the big headline is the number of new communities that are, you know have sort of built up a following. So whether it's Crossplane or whether it's, you know get-ops or whether it's, you know expanding around the work that's going on in operators we're going to see a whole bunch of projects around, you know, developer sort of frameworks and developer experience and so forth. So I think the big thing we're going to see is sort of this next stage of, you know a thousand flowers are blooming and we're going to see probably a half dozen or so new communities come out of this one really strong and you know the trends around those are going to accelerate. So I think that'll probably be the biggest takeaway. And then I think just the fact that the community is going to come out stronger after the pandemic than maybe it did before, because we're learning you know, new ways to work remotely, and that, that brings in a ton of new companies and contributors. So I think those two big things will be the headlines. And, you know, the state of the community is strong as they, as they like to say >> Yeah, love the ecosystem, I think the values are going to be network effect, ecosystems, integration standards evolving very quickly out in the open. Great to see Brian Gracely Senior Director Product Strategy at Red Hat for the cloud business unit, also podcasts are over a million episode downloads for the cloud cast podcast, thecloudcast.net. What's it Brian, what's the stats now. >> Yeah, I think we've, we've done over 500 shows. We're you know, about a million and a half listeners a year. So it's, you know again, it's great to have community followings and, you know, and meet people from around the world. So, you know, so many of these things intersect it's a real pleasure to work with everybody >> You're going to create a culture, well done. We're all been there, done that great job. >> Thank you >> Check out the cloud cast, of course, Red Hat's got the great OpenShift mojo going on into KubeCon. Brian, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks John. >> Okay so CUBE coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon Europe 2021 Virtual, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE virtual. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston. It's the cube covering IBM thing brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman and we're here with the cubes coverage of IBM. Thank you. 2020. The global experience reaching all of the participants of the event where they are. I'm happy to welcome back one of our cube alumni, Mike Farris, who is the vice president of corporate development and strategy at red hat. Mike, it's great to see you. Likewise too. Happy to be here. All right, so what Mike, uh, you know, lots of things to talk about a few weeks back. Uh, of course the management changes happened. Uh, we're fresh off of a red hat summit. Uh, I, I had a pleasure really talking to a lot of your peers, uh, your new boss, uh, and uh, you know, many of the customers. Uh, but for our, I think audience, right? Bring us up to speed. Uh, you know, back in 2019, it, uh, the, the largest software acquisition ever, uh, completed with IBM buying red hat and there've been some management changes, uh, some people, uh, switching roles. >>And, and you've got a new title, so, uh, bring her audience speed. Sure. Absolutely. So it's, it's been an exciting several, several months as we've gone through this. Of course. Um, we knew things were going to happen, things were announced clearly with Jenny's retirement quite a while ago. Um, but certainly, you know, the Arvin announcement and then as well as having both Jim Whitehurst become president. Okay. Oh, Cormier becoming CEO of red hat. You know, it's been an exciting several months trying to try to go through this and understand, you know, what would change and frankly, what would not change. Um, I'll say from red hats perspective, having been with red hat for coming up, you're on 20 years, uh, not a lot is really changed. We're still focused on our mission of being the owner leading enterprise open source software company, uh, focusing on both taking our, our platforms, both red hat enterprise Linux and now OpenShift a Ford in the market, partnering around middleware components, hardening around our management, uh, as well as our storage elements. >>So, you know, our mission hasn't changed and that's kind of one of the key aspects of this. I'll say that certainly, you know, with Arvind now as CEO of IBM and Jim Whitehurst is president of IBM along with Oh for me or being, you know, CEO of red hat and we've got a really strong leadership group in place at IBM that understands what red hat is, what we mean to the customer and just as importantly what we mean to the open source community. Uh, and, and that type of action and, and, and drive is certainly something that, that we think, you know, that leadership in place will help to ensure that the value we've delivered to customers, frankly from day one back when we launched red hat enterprise Linux or red hat advanced server, frankly, uh, it's something that, that we'll be able to continue to do and drive in the community and with the customers as we move forward. >>Yeah. Mike, it's interesting when we look out, uh, on the, the ecosystems and happening out there, we understand for customers sometimes it might be challenging to say, Hey, I listened to 10 different vendors and they all say the same words. I've got multi hybrid cloud, digital modernization, things like that. Well, with our hat as a, as an analyst firm, we kind of say, okay, everybody does things a little bit different. Do you know if you look at the big cloud players, they are all playing different games. When we looked at the IBM strategy pre acquisition of red hat and red hat, they line up pretty well, you know, red hat. Yeah, very much. At summit it was open hybrid cloud. Uh, when I look at IBM, maybe a little bit more talk of multicloud than hybrid. Well, but hybrid is long bend a piece of it. >>So yeah. Okay. Give us a little bit of the inside, you know, with your strategy hat on it. How much had it been okay. Strong alignment, obviously IBM and red hat decades. Um, but you know, there are some places where, uh, you need to make sure that people understand that, you know, red sat still please markers with all the clouds. And of course IBM has services that span many places, but they also have, you know, products and services that are, uh, it was particular to IBM thing. Absolutely. And I think, you know, it's important to note, and this is well established that, you know, one of the core, uh, justifications and reasons for the acquisition was really around red hats. A physician, not just an open source, but in the hybrid cloud. Um, we've been talking about that for sure many years in fact, before most of the vendor's name has predicted up. >>Um, uh, but just as importantly, I think if you look back at Marvin Krishna's announcements on frankly the day that he was named CEO, uh, you know, he starts talking about things like IBM's focus being hybrid. Yeah. AI. And how did those things come together and who were the participants in that value being delivered? Certainly from red hat's perspective is, as we've said, we've been talking about hybrid and delivering on hybrid for many years now. Now that's being, being pushed as part of the IBM overall message. Um, and so certainly being able to leverage that value and extend it throughout the ecosystem that IBM brings throughout the software that IBM has and their services. You know, certainly we think we've got a, a good opportunity to really take that message broader in the market. Um, you know, with again, with, with both Paul and Jim, president and CEO of red hat working together and we'll be able to take that and leverage that capability throughout all of IBM generally. >>Yeah. I'm glad you brought up the AI piece because one of the things that really struck me, thumb it often we're talking about plot worms and we're talking about infrastructure. And while that is my background, we understand that the reason infrastructure exists is because my Apple, that application and one of the most important piece of applications or data. So, you know, red hat of course has a strong history with hi guys, uh, to applications and data. You, you've got an operating system as you know, one of the core pieces of what you're doing. And when I think about IBM and its strengths, well the first thing I probably think of is services. But the second thing I think of was all of the businesses productivity, uh, the databases, you know, all these applications that IBM has. I read it over the years, uh, wondering if we can just click down one notch and you talk about, uh, you know, hybrid cloud and AI and everything. >>How are IBM and red hat helping customers build all of those new applications go through those transformations, uh, to really be modern enterprises? Yeah, so certainly if you look at red hat's history where we focused very much on building the platforms and again, whether that was red hat, enterprise, Linux open shift or J boss, you know, our focus has been how can we make a standardized platform, it will work across the industry regardless of use case or industry verdict. IBM, you know, has both platforms as well as a lot of investment in capabilities in the higher level value services as well as the specializations. And use of these applications and platforms for specific vertical industries. And a lot of what they've been able to bring to the table with your investments in Watson and AI as well as a lot of their data services has certainly start to come to fruition. >>And when we start taking these two in combination and applying, for example, a focus on developers, developer tools, being able to bring a value to not just uh, the operations folks, but also the developer side and really put a lot of the AI capabilities cross that we're starting to see, you know, accelerated value, accelerated use. And then if you layer that on top of a hybrid approach, you know, we've got a very strong message that crosses everything from, you know, existing applications to net new applications before developing from their DevOps cycle all the way through their operation cycle at the bottom end where they're, they're actually trying to do boy cross multiple platforms, multiple infrastructures, and keep everything consistently managed, secured and operated. And that's, that's really the overall message that we're seeing as we talk about this together with IBM. All right. So, Mike, you touched on some of the products that that red hat, uh, offers in the portfolio. >>Uh, it was, it was a real focus at summit, not really to talk about the announcements, you know, a week before a summit two came out. Yeah. Uh, OpenShift bar dog four wasn't a big w blob. Uh, you know, give us the update on really the red hat portfolio and you know, where are those points? You know, IBM is helping red hat scale. Yeah. So certainly you've touched on some of the big ones, right? Well, OpenShift itself with the four dot. Four release brings a lot of new capabilities, uh, that are being brought forward to those customers. I have a better management, better capabilities and what they can do from monitoring service, et cetera. Um, but certainly also things like what we're doing with OpenShift virtualization, which was another announcement. There were, we're actually doing, you know, bringing a game, changing capability to the market, uh, and enabling customers that have both existing, uh, virtual virtualized environments and also new or, or migrated or transformed a container, native environments and running those on the same platform. >>With the same management infrastructure, we see that as huge to be able to simplify the management capabilities, understand cost and be able to control those environments in a much more consistent way. Uh, secondly, uh, you know, one of the big things that's been happening is really around advanced container management. What we're calling an ACM. Uh, this is, this is a good example of how red hat and IBM have worked together, uh, to bring existing IBM capabilities and what they had called a multi cluster management or MCM and bring those not just into red hat yes. Part of our platforms, but also have red hat take the step of open sourcing that and making it part of the industry standard through open source community. So being able to take that type of value that IBM had matured, take it through red hat into the open source community, but simultaneously deliver it to our customers. >>Yeah. Open shift and make it part of the platform. It's something we really see as, as a huge value add. Mmm. We're also doing a lot more with hyperscalers, especially in the space of OpenShift managed services. Uh, you saw some of those last week and I would encourage everyone to go out and, and look at the Paul Cormier and Scott Guthrie announcements that we did. There was a keynote, a video that you can go review. Uh, but, but certainly, uh, certainly the focus on how do we work with these hyperscalers inclusive of IBM, uh, to make open shift and much more fluid deployment option, have it more, more service oriented, a both on premise and off premise so the customers can actually, uh, work together better in it. Yeah. A red hat I think has always done a really good job of highlighting those partnerships. It's way easy on the outside to talk about the competitive nature of the industry. >>And I remember a few years ago, a red hat made, you know, a strong partnership with AWS. You mentioned, you know, Scott Guthrie from Microsoft. Well, okay. Not Satya Nadella. Okay. Love it last year, but Microsoft long partner. Oh, okay. Of course, with IBM back to the earliest days, uh, and with red hat or, uh, you know, in the much more recent days, uh, there was those partnerships. So critically important. ACM definitely an area, uh, we want to watch it. It was really question we had had, if you look at last year, Microsoft announced Azure, uh, there are lots of solutions announced as to how am I going to manage in this multicloud world. Um, because it's not, my piece is everywhere. It's now I need to manage a lot of things that are out of my control from different vendors and hopefully we learned a lot of the lessons from the multi-vendor era that will be fixed in the multi cloud era. >>Oh, absolutely. And you know, arc was part of our discussion with Scott Guthrie last week or Paul's discussion and you'll see a demo of that. But I would also expect that you'll see more things coming from us markers as well. Right. You know, this is about building a platform, a hybrid platform that works in a multicloud world and being able to describe that in a very consistent way. Manage it. You were at entitled it in a very consistent way of across all the vendors, inclusive of both self and managed services, only one option. And so we're very focused on doing that. Um, IBM, certainly AXA assisting in that, helping grow it. But overall this focus is really about red has perspective about making that hybrid, right? the leading hybrid platform, the leading Coobernetti's. Okay. uh, in the industry. And that's, that's really where starting from with OpenShift. >>All right. So, so Mike, we started out the discussion talking about some of the changes and you know, where red hat stays, red hat and where the company is working together. Obviously the leadership changes. Oh, we're a big piece. Uh, congratulations you, you got, you know, a new role. I've seen quite a few people, uh, with some new titles. Uh, you know, w which is always nice to see. Uh, the, the people that have been working for a long time. The other area where seems from the outside there coordinated effort is around the covert response. So, you know, I've seen the, the public letters from, from Arvin Krishna of course. red hat and Paul Cormier's letter. Well, he is there. Uh, IBM was one of the first companies that we had heard from, uh, that said, Hey, you know, we're not going to RSA conference this year. >>We're moving digital, uh, with the events. So no real focus on them boys. And then of course boarding customers. Yeah. How does that covert response happen? And am I right from the outside that it looks like there, there is a bit of United right attack, this global pandemic response. It is a, you know, I think there's two levels to this. Certainly between red hat and IBM were well coordinated. Um, within, within red hat we have, uh, we have teams that are specifically dedicated to making sure, yeah, our associates and more importantly, uh, our customers and the overall communities are well-served through this. As you said earlier in the interview, uh, certainly we hold back on any significant product announcements at summit, including with some of our partners merely because we wanted to maintain this focus on how can we help everyone through this very unfortunate experience. >>Um, and so, you know, as obviously a lot of us, all of us are sitting at home now globally. Uh, the focus is very much how do we stay connected or we keep the business flowing as much as possible through this and, and, and keep people safe and secure in their environments and make sure that we serve both the customers and the associates. Yes. Awesome away. So there's a lot of sensitivity and we want to make sure that, you know, the industry and the overall world knows, uh, that we're very focused on keeping people healthy and moving forward as we, as we work through this together as a world. Yeah. Well, Mike Ferris, thank you so much for the update. It's been been a pleasure catching up. Great. Thanks dude. Appreciate it. All right. Stay tuned for lots more coverage from IBM. Think 20, 20. The global digital experience. Okay. To a minimum. And thank you. We're watching. Thank you.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Red Hat. Summit 2020 Brought to you by Red Hat. >>Hi, I'm stupid, man. And this is the Cube's coverage of Red Hat Summit. Of course, it's happening digitally. We're interviewing Red Hat executives, customers and partners from around the globe who can are gonna be part of this event. And happy to welcome back to the program. One of our Cube alumni, Joe Fitzgerald, who is the vice president and general manager of the management business unit at Red Hat. Last time I caught up with Joe is that answerable fest last year. And, uh, Joseph, fourth year in a row, You've been on the Cube here at Red Hat Summit. Thanks so much for joining us again. >>Thanks for having me back. Still, I'm happy to be here, >>All right, So, Joe, I think it actually makes sense for us to kind of pick up the conversation where we left off and answer both best last year, so answerable fast. It's all about automation. You're really helping with digital transformation. What companies are going through in today's day and age automation and being able to be more agile. Of course, everybody, for the most part, is working from home, being able to enable things remote. The adoption of cloud is even more consideration. So what part there? And since we last talked, you know, obviously things have changed for everyone some, but give us the latest from your organization. >>Thanks to you know, when we met and so fast in Atlanta last fall, we were talking about strategic use of our nation. Um, in today's current crisis, if you will. There's a lot of folks who are leaning on automation in a much more immediate and tactical way. We're seeing a lot of automation being used by folks to the boy, either the infrastructure they need to deal with capacity and surge demand that they have. Right now, we're seeing people use it for things like working from home because they can't get access to gear we're seeing for bursting to public clouds because they can add more physical equipment, perhaps in the data center. So last year we were excited to talk to you about strategic automation. That's still really important. But right now a lot of folks have more pressing matters in terms of automating to get through the current crisis coming to you from northern New Jersey, which is certainly a hot spot on, but certainly a lot appreciation for the folks on the front lines. They're taking care of us and protecting us and things like that. We want to do everything we can as a company, as red hat, to enable folks to do whatever they need to do to be able to get through this crisis. >>Yeah, absolutely. Joe Ah, very important topics there. In the keynote for Red Hat Summit, there's discussion of your group, and of course, management has always been a critical piece of how we look at overall i t. When I first became an analyst, the joke was, Well, you know, security and management. We can always kind of okay, those pillars is two things we need to do is an industry to make things better. Ah, specifically, we've been talking for years about the growth of container ization and kubernetes. Of course, Red hat, strong leadership position with open shift. My understanding that if I heard right from the keynote, it's the advanced cluster. Management is the new piece. Can you give us a little bit about, you know, the team, the technology, how this fits into the overall red hat portfolio. >>Sure, so we're super excited around advanced cluster management. It turns out that you know, we have a lot of customers that are running open shift to other container based applications, and as they evolve, they inevitably end up with multiple clusters based on separation of duties or lines of business, perhaps for distributed availability zones and things like that with their clusters, so they inevitably back into a multi cluster scenario. What we've done is working with IBM would develop some very rich technology around advanced management for multi cluster environments built from scratch for container environments and kubernetes. We worked with IBM. We move that technology over to Red Hat. But when the process of doing two things one is we're announcing tech preview here at Summit of that technology and where the process we're open sourcing that technology because we're red hat and everything we do is open source. We're going to take some of the most advanced container management cluster management technology in the world that we've gotten from IBM, and we're going to open source that we're excited here is that we're gonna provide this red hat, offering advanced cluster management to help people who are struggling with managing clusters. >>Yeah, Joe, absolutely a super important point point. Anybody that's watched this space for the last few years, simplicity has not been the word that people have used for it. And over the last year there's been a lot of announcements from some of the major players in the industry about how do I manage those multiple cluster environment? So, Joe, if I think back two years ago Ah, it was, you know, here's the best way to run kubernetes. And when you talk to a lot of customers, it was well, they were starting with often spinning their own because that was what was available. And the number one choice that I usually heard from customers was, Oh, if I'm a Red Hat customer, started using open shift and start using open ships everywhere, fast forward to where we are today. Of course, you have lots of customers running open shift, but also in the public clouds. If I'm using Amazon, Google, Microsoft, other platform environments, often there's a native kubernetes, and I need to manage across those environments. So do I understand right? ACM Is that going toe? Help me not only with my open shift but as it moves forward. Also, manage some of those other kubernetes environment. And how does Red Hat approach this kind of the same or differently? From what I hear from from Microsoft with Arc with VM Ware with Andrew >>So ACM vessels Management from Red Hat supports any standard kubernetes environment. One of the advantages we have working in an open shift environments Open shift has a lot of functionality sides Kuban aids. In other words, it's already a layer of sophistication built on top of kubernetes, so open shift itself provides a lot of management automation. Now you had advanced cluster management on top of that, which will be able to import other communities clusters from other environments. But the ability for its take advantage of the sophistication that's already in open shift and then leverage things like Hansel Automation and then some of the management. SAS Services cloud at red dot com We're connected customer experience the ability to proactively look at open shift clusters and be ableto some cases tell people about problems they're having before they even realize they have the problem. That combination of management automation on top of the already rich open shift environment really puts us. A couple of you know, runs up in terms of capabilities. I'll be on a standard kubernetes vanilla. Our >>yeah, so one of the reasons I was looking forward to this conversation is one of the things that we've been looking at for the last few years is how is multi cloud the same or different from what we have done back, You know, 10 15 years ago with multi vendor. And I think anybody that's been around long enough and you talk about management in a multi vendor environment and you think about the leading tools from a software standpoint. We're out there and it gives us a little bit of flashbacks, and it's not. Not in a good way. So what have we learned as an industry? And, you know, you talked about it, you know, integration with answerable all the automation, you know, how do we make sure that we aren't repeating the sins of the past with these new generation of management tools? >>Well, what we've seen is that enterprises are inherently going to be hybrid and multi cloud red has been talking about open hybrid cloud for almost eight years. Right? So our CTO Paul Cormier, you know, sort of anticipated this, which was pretty insightful eight years ago because everybody thought and people gonna move exclusively cloud it would have any data centers and maybe hardware anywhere. That's why you've got data centers edge multiple public clouds with services that are all over those different footprints. We believe that, you know, unlike the past when you had heterogeneous systems management, right where you have different platforms that we're trying to manage is the lowest common denominator is a common platform. Now what Red hat is offering is open shift, which will run on all the public clouds, as well as on your physical and virtual hardware in the data centers at the edge. So it basically provides the consistency, which means that the management can then talk to a consistent environment, provided much higher level hybrid cloud management and trying to either have silos of different management tools by cloud by vendor by environment, um, and then try to Federated at the lowest common denominator. You'll see kubernetes management tools, for example, that have to use the lowest, you know, sort of common denominator, which is the straight kubernetes AP eyes. We could take advantage of those, but also the additional functionality That open shift brings in, for example, with the other kids abilities. It allows us to have a higher level of management but provide that consistency by having the same hybrid cloud platform this case. Coburn's shift run across those different environments. >>Yeah, so what? One of the things that also consumer concerns me a little bit as the industry when they talk about kubernetes. It's very much a discussion of the infrastructure piece, but we know this move to cloud native is very much about the application and the application development. So help me understand a little bit how that overall story for kind of the app Dev see I CD all those pieces fit into your story. I was one of the major points of discussion. You know, the best. >>Yeah, so So it is really all about the application. People really don't want to think about the infrastructure. They don't think about the application. That's really what's driving their business and their differentiation in the case of open shift, but open shift provides application. Lifecycle management for kubernetes environments are advanced. Cluster management sort of takes that a step further and allows you to extend that life cycle so that you can deploy applications based on policy to different environments based on your needs. Keeps compliance. All those things enforce regardless of how many different places the traction application. So it's not just a Z Z as taking an application to going into one location. People want to be able to continuously update their applications and deploy it to all of the places that it needs to be there based on availability, a proximity security environments and things like that represents a hard challenge. And so that's why some of the tools, like Advanced cluster Management, are exactly designed to help those kind of new applications. Yeah, >>all right, Joe, you talked about that. Some of the technology for for ACM came from the IBM side. Give us the update. When you look at the IBM Cloud portfolio, how is your group really interacting and supporting and working with the overall IBM solutions? >>So IBM has a very robust portfolio and they have you know a number of the cloud packs in their portfolio that address things like applications and data management, things like that. So IBM, in this case, I developed some advanced cluster management technology, but it was not open source. It wasn't available to other folks. One of the challenges with that is that we believe, as red Hat that the innovations happening in open source. If you develop something in a closed, proprietary way, maybe the best thing in the world today, a year, two years, three years from now there are other projects and there are other technologies have being collaborated on open that are going to make. But we leave you behind, right? So we think open is the future. So in this case, and working with IBM, we took some very advanced technology. We moved it over to Red Hat, and now we're in the process of open sourcing it, as well as providing an enterprise consumable version. More technology in Red Hat Advanced Cluster Management for kubernetes, IBM again has to support a much broader, diverse environment, right in terms of everything from mainframes to edge and containers and V M's and physical machines applications that span decades, So they have a much bigger sort of, you know, target environment that they have to work in. Red Hat's focused on the future. We're really sort of skating to where the puck is, if you will use a you know, hockey analogy where basically, we're trying to anticipate what enterprises are going to need and address that with not only the platforms with management automation, you're going to need to be successful with the cloud. >>Yeah, Joe, I want I want you to bring it into your customers and you talk about all these changes that are happening in the landscape and how they manage it. Any insight you can give as to, you know, organizational structures. You know, I remember last year at Summit I talked to a number of companies going through digital transformation. And, you know, we know that there is as much if not more organizational change that needs happen along with the technology pieces. So from your world, you know who's kind of leading the charge, what skill sets do people need to either, you know, bring to it or learn new on And you know, our companies, you know, taking advantage of >>Well, as they say, developers are sort of the new kingmakers, right? In some ways. And so you know the tools that you've always said people process and technology, right? And I know as software companies get very, very excited about technology, but it turns out that the people, the process here way people building their applications, Way Dev ops and see I CD. It's a very, very sort of different environment for management automation tools, you know and sort of. The relationship between teams has changed and will change more, by the way. And so one of things we're trying to do. You see this with answerable, but you're also seeing this with Advanced Cluster Management is ability to delegate and give different kinds of operational and management capabilities to the teams, whether it's like business developers, QE teams. So it's fundamentally changing the way that the processes were working. That requires that the tools map to those new team structures. There's no new processes on, and that's what I think's going on it fundamentally different, and one of things I think you're going to see is management tools that were built in the past for these were the old style organizing are not going to fare well in the new World, where these processes and the team structures are changing. >>All right, So, Joe, before I want to get some feedback from you on how your technologies and teams they're helping with the code 19 piece. But let's just wrap up the ACM discussion before we do that. So you said it's a tech preview. S 01 of things that really nice is when you move things to open source, the community gets pretty good visibility as to when things were getting releases. New features down the pike. So what should we be looking for as an industry for ACM? When that rolls out, how two people start getting their hands on it and you know, what does that look like? >>So there's really two paths there. One is from a tech preview point of view. You know, customers can get access to the technology right and see it in their environment and give us feedback. The fact that it's been developed for the past two years probably constitutes hundreds of years of developer, um, you know, time in it. It's not Alfa technology. It's pretty robust. So even though we're calling a tech preview, we anticipate that it's going to be production ready in short fashion. It will take us a little bit of time to open. Source. The technology's red hat has a history of open sourcing technologies that we acquire. Each one varies in terms of what's in the code licenses, how it's structured, how it should be open source. We just don't back the truck up and take a bunch of code and put in a repository is actually a thoughtful process about the way that's projects or set up a communities they should be in. We're going through that process now, but customers will be able to take advantage of it in short fashion, and I think they're gonna find a very high level of maturity, given how long and how much. I mean it's work of this, >>you know, a really important piece is there. The other one closed the discussion with how we started off. Obviously, you know, workers and companies are having to make changes and be more flexible than ever in response to the Kobe 19 endemic. What are some of the pieces of technologies and services Ah, that that you want to highlight as toe that are helping companies really adjust to what is happening in today's world. >>Well, Red Hat is always been a very conscientious company. And in my particular area, one of things we're doing is with sensible. We're trying to enable folks to use automation providing free workshop, free workshops and access to code playbooks and things for different environments. If you think about the different kinds of industries right now, some are struggling with no smaller workforces work at home. Other ones are under tremendous pressure to deliver services to help keep us safe and protect us. So we're trying to provide as much a so we can in terms of automation, enabling people to use free, open source innovation on automation to enable work from home to do everything from creative TVNZ toe, you know, set their statuses and communicate between teams in this new environment, but to burst into a lot of clouds in some cases because somewhere trying to scale because their business is now change but is under tremendous pressure. You see that delivery services and things like that. So we're trying to to help as much as we can with automation is something that could be immediately helpful and has been some of these other projects. You know, somebody's doing a transformation, and they're designing new applications as much longer. Burn to it. Whereas automation is needed today by companies under duress, you can help them accelerate, um, and connect the their their new work at home environments. Sweetie Automation. Helping a lot. The other thing I want to mention is that we have free capabilities like red hat insights that can actually access systems for security. The last thing you need is a security breach or some other problem. Why you're dealing with fighting fires. There are bad actors out there. We've seen a few already eso insides ability to look at systems and tell people what their current posture is. So they immediately, quickly, whether with our tools or some other tool they have. We're trying to do as much as we can to help our customers for this really tough time. >>Well, Joe, thank you so much for the updates. Ah, congratulations to the team on the progress and absolutely very important topics to help customers that need to react even faster than ever in today's time. Extra funding. I'm stew. Minimum lots more coverage from Red Hat Summit on the Cube. Check out the cube dot net. And thank you for watching. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah.