(gentle music) >> Hello, everyone welcome to "theCUBE's" live coverage here in San Francisco, California for VMware Explore not VMworld, it's VMware Explore. I'm John Furrier, your host of "theCUBE" with Dave Vellante. We're here with two sets. 12th year, Dave, covering VMworld, now VMware Explore, what a journey? I had a little reminiscing from Paul Maritz in 2010, who predicted the future but the timing was off. Raghu predicting the future, but is his timing right with multi-cloud or super-cloud? We're going to get into it. We got three days of wall to wall CUBE coverage, two sets. All the top execs from VMware coming on, including the CEO Raghu himself, Vittorio, Kit Colbert, the whole kit and caboodle of the executive group to talk about the future of VMware, where it's going, and of course the appearance of Hock Tan here from Broadcom, Dave, made an appearance. Michael Dell was also in presence. I get the vibe that there's something going on with Broadcom and VMware beyond just the acquisition. So a lot of people are curious. This event again is notable and historic from the sense of it's VMware Explore not VMworld, so they changed the name, and Broadcom's intent, and they're going to be buying VMworld. Dave, the keynote was anticipated by all, how it was going to go down, what was going to be said. Raghu set the table, I got a ton of notes, I know you do. What's your take? >> Well, you have to start with the Broadcom acquisition. You're right, Hock Tan was in the audience, he stood up, he got a little clap. >> Golf clap. >> He's paying $60 billion for VMware, he better be able to be recognized. And he was here yesterday with Michael Dell at the executive sessions. And their purpose I'm sure, they didn't let us in, but I'm sure the purpose was to make sure that customers were calm, they were comfortable with the direction. Of course, the narrative coming out of VMware is that, hey, they're investigating, they're going deep into our portfolio, and they like what they see, it's going to be all good, it's not going to be like the CA acquisition and de-levering and all that stuff. I still stand by what I wrote in my breaking analysis back in May. The fact is, Broadcom has promised $8.5 billion in EBITDA within three years. That's the only way they get there, is to cut, so that's going to happen. But the interesting dynamic in the market, I don't know if you've noticed this, VMware stock is trading at a 20% discount to what Broadcom is paying for it. So there's a big amount of fluff, if you want to do some arbitration. And I think it's due to the fact that it's a stock and a cash deal, it's a combination deal, and it's not going to close for a year. So there's maybe some skepticism around that. But that was an interesting dynamic. The keynote we'll get into it, but it's all around multi-cloud and what we call super-cloud. >> I have my conspiracy theories on Broadcom, actually they make chips. Looking at all the waves right now in the technology industry, silicon is hot, anyone who's doing custom silicon and putting software on the chip, making purpose built vertical applications is seeing performance gains in cloud and in these applications. So one, I'm really excited by the dots connecting there. But also the VMware story, Dave, is pretty interesting in the sense that timing's everything, the Broadcom acquisition, EBITDA focus might drive behavior. But notable for VMware, is Raghu has been on this vision for years. I remember in 2016 when I interviewed him with Andy Jassy, who was then the CEO of AWS, they had moved everything to Amazon Web Services. And that was the beginning of the vision of multi-cloud and cloud-native. VMware invested a ton, and so we're seeing some fruit come off the tree. If you will, bearing some fruit from that VMware investment in cloud-native across the board which was their bet prior to Broadcom buying them out. So the question is, does Broadcom harvest that, continue that nurturing of that "plantation of goodness" that could come out of that VMware? And again, it's probability, it's not guaranteed. Commentary on Twitter is pretty heavy on, can they win the Devs? Can the new Ops bringing around the front? So, VMware's and Broadcom in a tough position, they bought more than they thought in my opinion. And I think a lot of people are saying, does Broadcom recognize the strategic value of what's coming out of the oven, so to speak, or what's blowing off the tree from VMware? And is it real? That is the number one question. I talk to people in the hallway, that's what they're saying. They want to know what's going to happen with what's around the corner, that's on top of mind of everybody. >> It's a really important question because VMware's future is multi-cloud management, what we call super-cloud. And without Tanzu, and I speculated that Tanzu was probably going to be under the microscope and potentially on the chopping block because they spend a lot of money marketing it, but they're probably not today getting a lot of returns. But without Tanzu, without a cross-cloud PaaS we sometimes call a super PaaS. their strategy doesn't work, it basically fails. And I think what a lot of people are missing, and I saw you chime in on Twitter, is can they win the Devs? Can they win the Devs? This is table stakes. If you don't have a cross-cloud PaaS, and it's really about not necessarily just the Devs, it's about the ops, right? Because now it's about security. Yes, shift left, but shield right. But the DevOps team, the Ops team needs consistency. It's like Adrian Cockcroft says, the Devs, they love to get married, the Ops, they got to clean up after the divorce. And so they need standard- >> You're implying that they'll use any tool for the job and not really worry about lock in. And I think today on the keynote, Deshaun was up there who submitted a comment, "You kids have it easy these days." Implying us old guys, when we coded, you had to do everything yourself. Kelsey Hightower mentioned her support pack desktop edition. The old days when had to build everything by hand, now it's all automated, all goodness. But in all seriousness, the focus there was DevOps has won, DevOps is what the developers are doing. The developers are in the clear right now, as far as I'm concerned. They're sitting on the beach right now, sunglasses on, sun shining, everything's shift left, CI/CD pipeline, cloud-native goodness. If you're a dev, things are much rosier than an Ops person. So DevOps is developer, security and DataOps, is where the action is. So it's not so much IT operations as it is security and data leveling up to the velocity demand of developers and also ease of use. So self-service in the motion of coding, in the pipelining, that's what the developers have to have. And if people don't build that experience from the upside, the new ops is not going to enable the develop, it won't be adopted in my opinion. >> You mentioned Paul Maritz before, his whole thing was any workload, any cloud, the software mainframe, they're talking about any Kubernetes, any cloud. And we got to go through some of the announcements real quick here. VMware Aria is the new multi-cloud management platform. That is the fundamental strategy for going cross-cloud or what we call super-cloud. The vSphere and vSAN 8 are big deals. And as relates to compute with vSphere, they're really pushing that whole DPU. You might remember Project Monterey. Well, Project Monterey is essentially like AWS Nitro, it's the future of computing architecture seven years after AWS introduced it. So AWS has a huge lead here. But it's critical that a company like VMware is able to offer that capability with XPU optionality, GPU, CPU, Arm based, Pensando capabilities, eventually NPUs, other capabilities to bring in and support new workloads, new data driven workloads. So the lot of talk about the whole DPU thing. As I mentioned, Tanzu new version of Tanzu, they talked about edge. They're basically bringing VMware to the edge with an eventual consistency model. >> Hold on, the vSphere thing, just to jump in there real quick. I always thought that that'd be higher up in the keynote. Clearly in the keynote, they flexed their cloud-native positioning, they had to address the Broadcom thing, talk about modern applications. So it felt like they were selling the dream on the front end. And they buried the lead in my opinion, which is vSphere 8. They don't do a lot of vSphere 8 announcements. If you look at the history of VMworld, every few years they got a new release. This was packed with a lot of goodness. And I thought they'd buried that in the keynote. >> I don't know, Raghu mentioned it. Yeah, they had a lot to cover. And then the other thing was they announced support for Red Hat OpenShift. So everybody's like, "Ooh, wow." And then Tanzu for all the Kubernetes versions from the cloud guys. So a lot of announcements, you got to always give VMware props. It's not like they stopped engineering, they have a great engineering culture. And so it's nice to see Project Monterey in particular, go from R&D to actual product. And so we like to see that. >> Even towards the end, now that we're doing the keynote review, Raghu said, "As proud as we are," this is when they started talking about the sustainability, implying they're real proud engineering, and that's a good call out there. I think that's what were trying to get across to Hock Tan, who was sitting in the front row. But Dave, in terms of keynote, my analysis is clear. Raghu was nervous, you can tell. But he's a product guy, he even said that on stage. He set the table at the beginning, I thought really well with modern applications. He had to address the name change, and I thought that was interesting. He actually said, "We built a community with VMworld, but now with multi-cloud, we're going to recall it Explore." Not sure I agree with that. I think VMworld community is still vibrant, and that's why they're here. So I thought that was nice, the way he balance that out, the messaging is good, the graphics and the branding of Explore is world class, I think it's phenomenal. I'm not a big fan of the name change, but I never go well with change there. Hock Tan didn't speak, he did stand up and wave. >> There's no way he's going to get up to speak. >> He didn't speak. So I thought that was interesting front end, so they got that right out of the way. And absolutely you saying last night. And then they got into this digitally smart concept, which I thought was on point. Did not like the great replatforming message. I'm not a big fan of that because it reminded me of the great resignation. And I think there's going to be a lot of memes on that. So not a big fan of the great replatforming. I did like the Cloud Universal pitch. But this whole multi-cloud pitch seems to me, and I want to get your thoughts on this, is that that's what it reminded me of, Paul Maritz. So when Raghu is clearly betting the ranch on multi-cloud, the question is timing. Paul Maritz in 2010 here at VMworld Moscone, he laid out the vision, he was right. But timing was off, the top of the stack didn't materialize. But at the end of the day, ended up being the right architecture. Is VMware too early with multi-cloud, Dave? And that's the question, that's the question on the table. >> Well, so a couple things. So Maritz, the one mistake Maritz made was he really tried to go into apps, remember? So now at least I think Raghu, the current VMware thinking is, we're going to enable apps to be developed. And that is the right thinking. Are they too early or too late with multi-cloud? I think technically it just wasn't feasible, the customers weren't ready for it. VMware moves at the speed of the CIO we like to say. So I think the timing is actually really good because the technical capabilities are now there. You've got to have across-cloud paths, which Tanzu is about. And I think Tanzu was too immature before. They've got the pieces on the DPU side. And the other thing about the timing is now with Broadcom acquiring VMware, the whole non Dell ecosystem has got to be a lot happier. NetApp, guys like that, Cisco. >> Why is that? >> Because Dell, their thumb on the scale, they had the thing rigged, Dell was first in line for everything. When EMC owned VMware, that was the case. But they were required about it, Dell made no concessions. And they just came out and said, "We are going to be VMware first, we are the preferred partner, we do more business with anybody." They really drove a truck through that. And I think it caused a lot of the ecosystem to pull back, like HPE and others to say, "Okay, we're going to find some alternatives here." Now they can really lean in. It's like when HP broken two, that really changed the ecosystem posture with HPE. This is like that, but times 10. >> What did you think about the ecosystem floor last night? When I did a walk of the floor, I thought it was very vibrant, it was not a ghost town at all. >> No, not at all, we saw Alibaba Cloud was there, we saw a lot of- >> AWS. >> Smaller companies >> Microsoft. >> And so I thought it was better than I thought it would be. There's probably what, 7,000 people here I would say? So well off from the 15,000 pre-COVID highs, but still very robust, it's a good crowd. People are excited to be back in person obviously. And I think the messaging was right, John. I think cross-cloud, multi-cloud, super-cloud, that is the future. Well, David Floid took a stab at it and said, "I think it's going to be $100 billion market by the end of the decade." >> Super-cloud is a thing for sure. And I think that came out in Aria announcement, which was basically a rebranding. It's not a new product, essentially it's a cobble together management platform. I thought the Cloud Universal notes here were interesting. The Cloud Universal is the commercial cloud smart component. Meaning they're trying to make that the frame, Dave, for the hyperscalers to come in to a de facto consortium movement. I feel like that's next here. If this Cloud Universal could become the super-cloud consortium, that might give them a better shot. The ecosystem is buzzing, attendance is strong. It's interesting a lot of people were speculating, will this be an event? I thought they did a great job and I thought they came through well with this. >> You were saying about consortium, because have to have the cloud guys in any consortium. But is any one cloud going to drive it? VMware could be- >> AWS >> Could be the driver. >> I'm thinking if I had to make a prediction, looking at what I just saw in the keynote, we'll see what the VMware execs say, If I had to make a guess, I think you're going to have customers, "Let's still double down on VMware stuff." They're going to settle into vSphere and networking compute and storage, the normal stuff that they've got, the software to find data center core as a cloud operational platform. And then you're going to see a lot more AWS migration. You might see that if Broadcom doesn't nurture the fruit coming off the tree, as we mentioned earlier, I think you might see people go more cloud-native. But I think VMware's prepared for that with the hybrid. So it's going to be very interesting to see. I think the winners coming out of this will be AWS, maybe a little bit of trickle into Azure, Alibaba mostly for the European, I mean the China side. But I don't see them playing. Google is a wild card, we'll see it from them. >> I think the other big thing about the timing, to your earlier point is, VMware used to go to market with very bespoke, We got vSAN, we got NSX, we got vSphere, and now they're trying to bring that together. And essentially remember, they used to go to market and say, "Okay, hey, your ELA is up, time to renew." And they're talking to the wrong people. So now they're going forth with the Azure service model, they're going to move to a subscription model. And I think the timing is right for that. I would've liked to see it a little bit before hand, maybe pre COVID would have been better timing. But I think technically, the time is right now for that. >> And I think looking at the acquisition, speculating on that, I think let's discuss how we see things, how they might move forward. Again, we'll ask the guests as much as best as we can and the best they could answer. But let's take this forward. Okay, based upon what I'm seeing here, if I'm Hock Tan in the audience, I'm saying to myself, "Okay, I got more here than I thought I was buying." Maybe I thought I was getting some great EBITDA. I wonder if his outlook changed on how he goes to market with the new VMware post acquisition. So that means in the around February timeframe, I would probably, if I was advising him to say, "Okay, let's keep it as is, let's not do the cut, cut, cut. Maybe trim a little bit here and there." But for the most part, he's got the solid customer base and he's going to have to keep the event. >> Here's the problem with that. They have a very high do-say ratio. They do what they say they're going to do. And as a result, they've promised 8.5 billion in EBITDA within three years out of VMware. And they return 50% of their free cash flow to investors. If they break that promise, their stock will get crushed. I don't think they're going to break that promise. So I think they're going to run. That's something I believe in their playbook that they're not going to change. Now, could they get there without massive cuts? I think it's going to be hard. Can they get there with price increases? Yes. And better efficiency, yes. But they don't have a lot of go to market synergies, John. Broadcom doesn't have a big sales force that they can say, "Okay, we're going to fire all the VMware sales force and you're going to go to market through our channel." Like Oracle would do with their big sales force or a Dell would do with an acquisition, they can't. And so I just don't see how they're going to around it. The only other thing I would say is, to me, I thought the application development piece, the Tanzu piece was very appropriate. And I think they got it. Whether or not they're going to succeed there, we can debate that. But I thought what was missing was there wasn't enough, in my opinion, on their security posture, their security strategy. I thought they gave it lip service with, "Oh yeah, we're going to shift left and dev security, et cetera." They did not go in depth. I think when you talk to someone like Tom Gillis, who really can go deep, I think talking about Barry and the lead, that was not, security is the number one issue of CIOs, CSO. >> Data and security >> At boards, it's number one. And data is the second thing. And those two stories in the keynote where quasi non-existent or/and weak. >> Again, the reason why I believe, and you're discussing it publicly at a high level, is super-cloud is real because it's not just SaaS on cloud, it's hybrid, it's DevOps, it's developer. And security and data operations are just absolutely now leveling up, and the edge is a complete wild card. We met a company last night, they're doing the edge cloud. The edge is going to open up all kinds of new use cases and challenges. And that's on the DataOps, data security side. DevOps, IT operations is already in the dev cycle. If companies aren't doing that, in my opinion, they're not really doing it right. So I think it'll shift to security and Ops and DataOps, that's going to be the action. In the cloud operational framework, that's super-cloud. To me, if I'm Hock Tan, I'm saying, "VMworld, VMware Explore, VMware has to be a core component of super-cloud of the future. Not multi-cloud just a state." I think multi-cloud will be a description of a state, of an architecture, and an outcome, but that's not super-cloud, that's not a functioning operating system, that's not a functioning business driven technology. So I think VMware has the opportunity. So I look at that and say, I got cheap options all the way up to the top of the stack. And super-cloud paths layer, as you describe, that I think is the way to go. >> When you think about how VMware got here, VMware was a $13 billion trailing 12 month revenue company. There aren't a lot of $13 billion software companies. And the way VMware got here, is through great software engineering. They identified problems that the customers had and they went and solved them. They did it with virtualization, they did it with private cloud, they figured out their public cloud strategy. So I think the question for Broadcom is going to be okay, how fast can we monetize that engineering? Can we turn that engineering R&D into dollars? And how fast can we do that? They have two choices in my opinion, keep innovating, which of course we hope that's the case, or act like a private equity firm and just squeeze as much cash out of VMware as possible. Which I don't think would be the right strategy because eventually that says, okay, what's going to happen to Broadcom? How are they going to continue to grow? Are they're going to have to just keep growing through acquisitions? So I think R&D is a really good spend when it's VMware. >> And I think as we wrap up our keynote analysis, one of the things that's going to come out of this as the conversation, no doubt in my mind will be, VMware isn't CA. And the question is, does Broadcom go off their playbook with VMware because of the fact that you look at the sponsorships for the show, we got a robust set of sponsorships for "theCUBE." With two sets, we're booked, fully loaded. Conversation's high, the floor is all about next level cloud operations. This is not a dying market, this is a growth wave coming. So the question, as super-cloud becomes that growth, and everyone's talking about super-cloud there. Some people who don't like the name, which is good, keep grace debate. But there's no doubt that that next wave is the super-cloud philosophy, the super-cloud mindset and architecture, and development environment. And we've documented that on supercloud.world if anyone's interested. But that wave is coming, and you can see it on the floor. Look at the sponsors, look at what people are talking about, Dave. This is not like Broadcom buying VMware and tucking it under and saying, "Okay, hope we can service the customer." There's a real market growth here story. So the question is, what do you do with that? >> Well, so you start with the base. VMware is a very good platform. The reason why they don't have a ton of competition and the reason why, okay, Nutanix can maybe trickle some away, but VMware is really good, it works, it's stable, it recovers from failures, it's got a super strong ecosystem. So you start by building there and then you identify the places where you can spend a dollar and make it 10. >> Well, I was very excited that when we had our super-cloud event, which was a virtual event as a test, we had great VMware support. And a lot of the catalog sessions up here, on Moscone West, where we're sitting, upstairs is all the sessions, they're crowded. And they overlay, Dave, with our narrative and the industry narrative. On the influencer side, you're starting to see the influencers meeting our editorial and pursuing a super-cloud with VMware and their ecosystem. Kind of agreeing super-cloud is real. And I think that is an important note because just last December, when we coined the term at Reinvent, I think it was Reinvent look what's happened. I want to get your thoughts and your reaction to why super-cloud has got so much traction, it's a great buzz with the name. But why is it that our super-cloud, the VMware, and the ecosystem are all aligning with this? Why do you think that's happening? Why do you think that the momentum is accelerating? >> The reason is that, as everybody knows, organizations have multiple clouds, it's a function of shadow Devs, M&A. And so they end up with all these different clouds, all these different projects, different primitives, different APIs, different tool sets. And they called it cloud chaos today. It's accurate, it is cloud chaos. So what's the problem with that? Well, that makes it harder to secure, it makes it harder to govern, it makes it harder to share data, it creates data silos. What's the answer? Well, if you can create a layer that's an abstraction layer that simplifies all that cross cloud data sharing and development and have a consistent set of APIs through a PaaS layer, we call it super PaaS and you are going to have a metadata intelligence that says, "Okay, I'm going to put this here or put that there. And I'm going to deal with latency, I'm going to optimize for whatever purpose, data sharing, or performance or whatever it is." You're going to solve a lot of problems. And you're going to make the CIO's life easier so that they can invest in their own business and their digital transformation and their digital strategy. So that's why people agree. They might not agree with the name, but they certainly agree with the concept of that abstraction layer. >> The name is certainly a better name than multi-cloud, multi-cloud sounds broken. But I think CIOs and CXOs, CISO, CSOs have to get buy-in from their teams. The organic dev relationship with Ops and SecOps and DataOps has to be symbiotic, not conflicting. And I love the chaos story because as Andy Grove, the legend at Intel once said, "Let chaos reign and then reign in the chaos." >> Chaos is cash. >> So in any innovation inflection point, chaos becomes the complexity, abstraction layers, and or innovation takes that complexity away. This is the formula for success. And I think VMware is right in the middle of it. And I think if I'm looking at VMware right now, I'm saying, hey, reign in that chaos right now and you win. So chaos is not a bad thing if you can reign it in, Dave. >> And that's what they've done. You think about what they did with virtualization, it was chaotic, it was wasteful. I think of what they did with private cloud. They said, "Hey IT guys, we're going to help you not get cloudified. We're going to cloudify your presence on-prem and not just throw everything into the cloud." They did a great job there. And now it's all about multi-cloud. >> Well, we're going to reign in the chaos, extract the signal from the noise. Super CUBE here at super-cloud event VMware Explore. Dave, great to kick it off again. Again, 12th year of CUBE coverage. It seems like a lifetime, Dave. Just yesterday we were 2010 >> Amazing, right. We've been in Moscone South, we've been in North, we've been in Las Vegas. Now we're here West, first time in west. >> Some of these developers were in elementary school when we started "theCUBE" here, I was just feeling old relics. Anyway, we're going to bring more action, three days of coverage, thecube.net, check it out. Join our community, join the conversation. As the influences are coming more onto the market, you're seeing a lot more conversations on Twitter, on LinkedIn, on the internet, check it out. Join the conversation. I'm John Furrier and Dave Vellante. We'll be back with more coverage here in San Francisco after this break. (gentle music)

>>Fly from San Francisco. It's the cube covering RSA conference, 2020 San Francisco brought to you by Silicon angle media. >>Hey, welcome back everyone. Cubes coverage here in San Francisco, the Moscone South. We're here at the RSA conference. I'm John, your host and the cube. You know, cybersecurity is now a global phenomenon, but cubbies have to move at the speed of business, which now is at the speed of the potential attacks. This is a new paradigm shift. New generation of problems that have to be solved and companies solving them. We have a hot startup here that's growing. Hazel cast, the CEO, Kelly Kelly Harrell is here. Cube alumni. Good to see you. Good to see you, John. Hey, so we know each other you've been on before. Um, you know, networking, you know, compute, you know the industry. You're now the CEO of Hazel cast. So first of all, what does Hazelcast do? And then we can get into some of the cool things. Hazel cast is an in memory compute platform. >>So we're a kind of a neutral platform. You write your applications to us. We sit in front of things like databases and stream, uh, streaming sources, uh, and we execute applications at microsecond speeds, which is really, really important as we move more and more towards digital and AI. Uh, so basically when, when time matters, when time is money people buy Hazelcast. So I've got to ask you your interest in better, you can do a lot of different things. You can run any companies you want. Why Hazelcast what attracted you to this company? What was unique about it that got your attention and what made you join the firm? Well, when I first started looking at it and realized that a hundred of the world's largest companies are their customers and this company really was kind of kind of a run silent run deep company. A lot of people didn't know about it. >>Um, I could not, I had this dissonance, like how can this possibly be the case? Well, it turns out, uh, if you go into the Java developer world, the name is like Kleenex. Everybody knows Hazelcast because of the open source adoption of it, which has gone viral a long, long time ago. So once I started realizing what they had and why people were buying it, and I looked at that, that problem statement and the problem statement is really increasing with digitalization. So the more things are speeding up, the more applications have to perform at really, really low latency. So there was this big big growth market opportunity and Hazel CAS clearly had the had the drop on the market. So I've got to ask you, so we're at RSA and I mentioned on my intro here the speed of business while he's been down the, it kind of cliche moving at the speed of business, but now business has to move as the speed of how to react to some of the large scale things, whether it's compute power, cloud computing, and obviously cyber is attacks and a response. >>How do you view that and how are you guys attacking that problem? Well, you know, it's funny. I think the first time I truly understood security was the day that I was shopping for a home safe. You know, because I realized that all of these safes, they all were competing on one of the common metric, which is the meantime to break in, right? Is that you had one job and all you can tell me is that it's going to happen eventually, you know? So the kind of the scales got peeled off my eyes and I realized that, that when it comes to security, the only common factor is elapsed time, you know, and uh, so the last time is what matters. And then the second thing is that time is relative. It's relative to the speed of the attack. You know, if I'm just trying to protect my goods in a safe, the last amount of time is how long it can take for the bad guy to break into the safe. >>But now we're working at digital speeds, you know, so, you know, you take a second break that down to a thousand, uh, that's uh, you know, milliseconds. It takes 300 milliseconds. The blink. Yeah. Now we're working at microsecond speeds. Uh, and we're finding that there are just a really rapidly growing number of transactions that have to perform at that scale and that, and that speed. Um, you know, it, it may have escaped people completely, but card processing, credit card, debit card processing, ever Dawn on you that that's an IOT application now. Yeah, because my phone is a terminal. Amazon's a giant terminal number of transactions go up. They have three milliseconds to decide whether or not they're going to approve that. And uh, now with using Hazel Cassady not just handle it within that three milliseconds, but they also are running multiple fraud detection algorithms in that same window. >>Okay. So I get it now. That's why the in-memory becomes critical. You can't gotta be in memory. Okay, so I got to ask the next logical question, which is okay, I get that it makes less sense and I want to dig into that in a second. But let's go to the application developer. Okay, I'm doing dev ops, I'm doing cloud. I'm cool. Right? So now you just wake me up and say, wait a minute, I'm not dealing with nanosecond latency. What do I do? Like what's I mean, who's, how to applications respond to that kind of attack velocity? Well, it's not a not a a an evolution. So the application is written to Hazel cast is very, very simple to do. Um, there are, uh, like 60 million Hazel cast cluster starts every month. So people out in the wild are doing this all day long and we're really big in the Java developer community, but not only Java. >>Um, and so it's very, very straightforward with how to write your application and pointed at Hazelcast instead of pointing at the database behind us. Uh, so that part is actually very, very simple. All right, so take me through, I get the market space you're going after. It makes total sense. You run the, I think the right wave in my opinion. Business model product, how you guys organize, how do people sign up for our development and the development side? Who's your buyer? What's the business look like? Share a Hazel. Cast a one-on-one. Yeah. So we're an open core model, meaning the core engine is open source and fully downloadable and you know, free to use, uh, the additional functionality is the commercial aspect of it, which are tend to be features that are used when you're really going into, into sensitive and large scale deployments. Um, so the developers have access to a, they just come to hazelcast.org and uh, and join the community that way. >>Um, the people that we engage with are everyone from the developer all the way up through the architect and then the a C level member who's charged with standing up whatever this new capability is. So we talk up and down that chain, um, where you're a very, very technical company. Uh, but we've got a very, very powerful RLM. What's the developer makeup look like? Is it a software developer? Is it an engineer? So what's the makeup of the, of the developer? They're core application developers. Um, a lot in Java, increasingly in.net, uh, as a MLM AR coming on, we're getting a lot of Python. Uh, so it's, it's developers with that skillset and they're basically, uh, writing an application that they're, um, uh, basically their division is specified. So we need this new application. It could be a new application for a customer engagement and application for fraud detection and an application for stock trading. >>Anything that's super, super time sensitive and, uh, they, they select us and they build on us. So you get the in-memory solution for developers. Take me through the monetization on the open core. Is it services? Is it, uh, it's a subscription. It's a subscription model. So, okay. Uh, w we are paid on a, on a annual basis, uh, for, for use of the software. And um, you know, however large the installation gets is a function that basically determines, uh, you know, what the price is and then it's just renewed annually. Awesome. We'll do good subscriptions. Good economics. It is. What about the secret sauce? What sun in the cut was on the covers? Can you share what the magic is or is it proprietary? Is that now what's, uh, it's, it's hardcore computer science. It really is what it is. And that is actually what is in the core engine. >>Um, but I mean, we've got PhDs on staff. We're tackling some really, really hard problems. You know, I can, I can build anything in memory. I can make a spreadsheet in memory, I can make a word processor and memory. But you know, the question is how good is it? How fast is it, how scalable, how resilient. So, um, you know, those, you're saying speed, resilience and scale are the foundation and it took the company years and years to be able to master this. That's an asymptotic attempt and you're never at the end of that. But we've got, you know, the most resilience, so something, it doesn't go down. It can't go down because our customers lose millions for every second that it's down. So it can't go down. It's got to scale. And it's gotta be low latency number of customers you guys have right now. Can you tell us about the public references and why they using Hazelcast and what did they say about it? >>Yeah, I mean we've got a hundred of the largest, uh, financial services, about 60% of our revenue. E-commerce is a, another 20% large telcos. Another job. There are a lot of IOPS type companies, right? Yeah. Basically it's, um, so you know, in the financial services, uh, it's all the names that you would know, uh, every logo in your wallet. It's probably one of our customers as an example. Um, massive banks, uh, card processors, uh, we don't get to talk about very many of them, but you know, something like national bank of Australia, uh, capital one, um, you know, you can, you can let your, your mind run there. Um, our largest customer has over a trillion dollar market cap. There's only a few that meet that criteria. So I'll let you on that one. One of the three. Um, all right, so what's next for you guys? >>Give the quick plug in. The company would appreciate the insights. I think he'd memory's hot. What do you guys are going to do? What's your growth strategy? Uh, what's, what do you, what's your priorities? The CEO? Yeah. Well, we just raised a $50 million round, which is a very, very significant round. Um, and we're putting that to work aggressively. We just came off the biggest quarter in the company's history. So we're really on fire right now. Uh, we've established a very strong technology partnership with Intel, uh, including specialty because of their AI initiatives. Because we power a lot of AI, uh, uh, applications. IBM has become a strategic partner. They're now reselling Hazelcast. Uh, so we've got a bunch of, uh, a bunch of wind in our sails right now coming into this year, what we're going to be doing is, uh, really delivering a full blown, uh, in memory compute platform that delivers, that can process stored and streaming data simultaneously. >>Nothing else on the planet can do that. We're finding some really innovative applications and, um, you know, we're just really, really working on market penetration right now. You know, when you see all these supply chain hacks out there, you're going to look at more in memory detection, prevention, counter strike, you know, all this provision things you got to take care of. Mean applications have to now respond. It's almost like a whole new SLA for application requirement. Yeah, it is. I mean, the bad guys are moving to digital speed, you know, if you have important apps that, uh, that are affected by that. Right. You know, you'd better get ahead of that. Well, actually you could be doing that, by the way. You can be doing that on your, on premise or you could be doing in the cloud with the managed service that we've also stood up while still we get the Cuban in, in memory Africa and when we were there, I will be happy. Kelly, congratulations on the funding. Looking forward to tracking you. We'll follow up and check in with you guys. All right. Congratulations. Awesome. Thanks John. I appreciate it. Okay. It's keep coverage here in San Francisco, the Moscone. I'm John furrier. Thanks for watching.

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering RSA Conference 2020 San Francisco. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE's coverage from RSA Conference on Moscone South. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. You know, cybersecurity is changing, and the next technology is right around the corner, and it's got to be invented somewhere, and of course Accenture Labs is part of it. Our next guest is Lisa O'Connor, Global Security R&D Lead for Accenture Labs. Lisa's working on some of those hard problems all around the world. Thank you for joining me today. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for having me. >> So, we always get the good scoop from Accenture, because you have a lot of smart people in that company. You know, they know their stuff. I know you got a huge analytics team. I've talked to Jean-Luc Chatelain before, and I know you got a massive amount of, deep bench of talent. But as you have to go do the applied R&D, and maybe some of the crazy ideas, you got to start thinking about where the puck is going to be. >> Absolutely. >> You got to understand that. Well, it's pretty clear to us that Cloud is certainly there. Palo Alto Networks had a disappointing earnings yesterday, because their on-premises business is shifting to the Cloud. You're seeing hybrid operating model and multicloud for the enterprise, but now you got global challenges. >> We absolutely do. >> Huge, so what are you guys working on that's coming? Tell us. >> So we're working on lots of exciting things, and Cloud is one of them. But, some of the things I'm so passionate about in labs, and I have the best job at Accenture. Don't tell anyone. (laughs) I do. So, we are working on, like Jean-Luc is working on applied intelligence, we are working on robust AI. So, when we think about AI in the future, how do we feel that, and know that it's okay? How do we put it out there and know it's safe in production, we've done the right training, we've made our model resilient to what's out there? One of the things we see happening, and I love AI, love it. It has great potential, and we get great insights out of it, but a lot of times we stop, we get the insights, and we say, "Okay, it's in the box, we got a couple hits there, "we're good, it's good." No, maybe not. And so really, it's learning and creating the actually applied attacks on AI, and then figuring out what the right defenses are. And, depending on what type of machine learning you're using, those defenses change. And so, we're having a great time in our lab in Washington D.C., working on basically defending AI and building those techniques, so that what we put out as Accenture is robust. >> You know, it's interesting, AI, you watch some of the hardcore, you know, social justice warriors out there going after Amazon, Google, you know, because they're doing some pretty progressive things. Oh, facial recognition, you got AI, you got Alexa. You know, a lot of people are like, "Oh, I'm scared." But, at the end of the day, they also have some challenges like network security, so you have all this AI up and down the stack. And, one thing I like about what's being talked about in the industry is the shared responsibility model. So, I got to ask you, as AI becomes exciting, but also, balancing, frightening to people, how do you get that shared responsibility model, so we get it right, do the experimentation, without people freaking out? (laughs) So, it's kind of like this weird mode we're in now, where I want to do more AI, because I think it benefits society, but everyone's freaking out. >> Yeah, so, in our tech vision that we just launched, The Tech Vision 2020, there's a lot of talk about value and values, which is really important when we think about AI because we can get great value out of it, but there's a values piece of it and it's how we're using it, how we're getting those insights. Because, the one thing, we have this circle, and it's between customer experience, because the companies that do customer experience well are going to excel, they're going to keep their clients, they're going to do amazing things, they're going to become sticky. But, to do that well, you have to be a good custodian of their data and their information, and curated experiences that they want, and not the creepy ones, not the ones they don't want. And so, we really look at that trust is necessary in that ecosystem, in building that, and keeping that with clients. So, that's something that came out of our technology vision. And, in fact, we're going to be talking at the Executive Women's Forum, this is tomorrow, and we're going to be having a panel on AI, and defending it, which will be very interesting. >> Make sure your people film that conference. We'd like to get a view of it on YouTube after. We love those conferences, really insightful. But, I want to get back to what you were talking about, the fun side. >> Yeah. >> You got a lot of new things on, your guys are kicking the tires on, scratching the surface on. You have two operating labs, one in Washington D.C., and one in Israel. What city in Israel? Is it in Tel Aviv or-- >> Herzliya. >> Okay, did not know. >> Yeah, the tech district, just north of Tel Aviv. It's the hotspot. >> So, Silicon Valley, D.C., and Israel, hotbeds of technology now. >> Yes. >> What's coming out of those labs, what's hot? >> Oh, there's so much exciting stuff coming out of our lab in Herzliya. One of the things that we have, and it's something that's been long and coming, it's been brewing for a while, but it's really looking at creating a model of the enterprise security posture. And, when I say a model of it, I'm talking about a cyber digital twin. Because, so much we can't do in our production networks, we don't have the capabilities. We can look around the room, but we don't have the capabilities on the SOCs team side, to ingest all this stuff. We need a playground where we can ask the what-ifs, where we can run high performance analytics, and we do that through a temporal knowledge graph. And, that's a hard thing to achieve, and it's a hard thing to do analytics at scale. So, that's one of the big projects that we're doing out of our Israel lab. >> Are you saying digital twins is a framework for that? >> Yeah. >> Does it really work well with that? >> So the knowledge graph, we can create digital twins around many things, because a digital twin is a model of processes, people, technologies, the statefulness of things, and configurations, whatever you want to pull in there. So, when we start thinking about, what would we take in to create the perfect enterprise security posture? What would give us all the insights? And, then we can ask the questions about, okay, how would an adversary do lateral movement through this? I can't fix everything that's a 10, but I could fix the right ones to reduce the risk impactfully. And, those are the kind of what-ifs that you can do. >> That's real sci-fi stuff, that's right around the corner. >> Yeah, it is. >> That simulation environment. >> It is. >> What-ifs. Oh my god, the company just got hacked, we're out of business. That's your simulation. You could get to, that's the goal, right? >> It absolutely is, to ask those good business questions about the data, and then to report on the risk of it. And, the other thing, as we move to 5G, this problem's getting bigger and bigger, and we're now bringing in very disparate kinds of compute platforms, computing-at-the-edge. And, what does that do to our nice little network model that we had, that our traditional systems are used to defending against? >> I mean, just the segmentation of the network, and the edge opens up so much more aperture-- >> Yes, it does (laughs). >> to the digital twin, or a knowledge graph. You brought up knowledge graph, I want to get your thoughts on this. I was just having dinner last night with an amazing woman out of New York. She's a Ph.D. in computer science. So, we're talking about graphs, and I love riffing on graph databases. But, the topic came up about databases in general, because with the cloud, it's horizontally scalable, you've got all kinds of simulation, a lot of elasticity going on, there's a lot of software being written on this. You got time series database, you got relational database, you got unstructured, and you got graphs. You got to make them all work together. This is kind of the unique challenge. And, with security, leveraging the right database, and the right construct is a super important thing. How do you guys look at that in the labs? Because, is it something that you guys think about, or is it going to be invisible someday? >> Oh, we think about it a lot. In fact, we've had a number of research projects over the last five years now, actually six years, where we've really pivoted hard in cyber security to graph databases. And, the reason for that is, the many-to-many relationships, and what we can do in terms of navigating, asking the questions, pulling on a thread, because in cyber hunting, that's what we're doing. In many of these use cases that we're trying to defend an enterprise, we're following the next new path based on the newest information of now what the challenge is, or what the current configuration is. So, that's really important. So, graph databases enable that so well. Now, there's still the architecture challenge of, okay, when I ask a query, what am I doing? Am I disrupting the whole apple cart? Do I have to process everything over, or is there a way to do that elegantly, where I can ask my query, and because of how I've structured it in storage, I can do it much better, and I can do it much more efficiently. And that, I think, is where the opportunities are. >> I got to tell you, I'm getting exited now on this whole database discussion, because you think about the logic around what you just said. A graph database with that kind of complexity, when you factor in contextually different things happening at any given time, the database needs to be parsed and managed differently. >> Yes. >> That's a huge challenge. >> It is a great research challenge, which is why we're doing it. >> What is that, how far along are we going to be able to have this dynamic, self-evolving, self-governing, self-healing data modeling? Is that coming soon, or... >> Yeah, I hope so. We wrote about it a couple of years ago. >> You did? >> The self-healing enterprise, aspirational. But I think, I mean, we try to get to real time, right? And, we try to get to real time, and again, refactoring. As we talk about what an adversary is going to do, or lateral movement through a business process, we're talking about a lot of computational horsepower to recalculate all that, process it again, update it, and then again present that back. So the number of things we're asking, how we're asking it becomes also very important to the structure. >> Just, it goes zooming up a little bit, high level, what we're really talking about here is value >> of the data. >> Absolutely. >> And, when you get into the valuation of the nodes, and the arcs, and all that graphs, and other databases, you got to know what to pay attention to. It's kind of like going into the hospital and hearing all these alarms going off. At some point you don't know what's, until they hear a flat line, or whatever. >> Right. That's a bad one. >> I mean, well that's obvious. But, now sometimes there's so many alerts, there's so many alarms. How do you understand at any given time what to pay attention to, because obviously when someone's having a problem you want to pay attention to it. If it's a security alert, that's prioritized. >> And the devil is in the analytics, right? What's the question we're asking, and the analytics that give us that prioritization? And that's non-trivial, because there are a lot of other folks that are doing prioritization in a different manner. To do it at scale, and to do it, not just one hop out, but I want to go all the way to the crown jewels, I want that whole path navigated, and I want to know where to cut along that path. That's a hard thing to do. And so, we've actually developed, and we've submitted patents for them, but we've developed new analytics that'll support that. >> Awesome. Well Lisa, I want to ask you kind of a, I'll give you a plug here, just going to get it out, because I think it's important. Skills gap's a big thing, so I want to give you a minute to explain, or share what you're looking for in your hiring. Who are you looking for? What kind of, the make-up of individual, obviously? Maybe, do you use straight, more academic paper kind of people, or practitioners? I mean, when you look to hire, what are some of the priorities that you look for, and who would thrive in an Accenture Lab's environment? >> Oh, my goodness. >> Take a minute to share what you're looking for. >> Yeah, so we love people that think out of the box, and those kinds of people come from very different backgrounds. And so, part of that is, some of them we look for Ph.D.'s, that have wonderful applied skills, and applied is a key word there. White papers are great, I need to be able to prove something, I need to be able to demo something that has value. So, having the applied skills to a business challenge is really important. So, that sort of ground, understanding the business, very important too. But, our talent comes from many different areas. I mean, I kind of joke, my lab looks like the UN, it's wonderful. I have people from across the globe that are in our cyber security lab. I have, in our Washington D.C. lab, we're 50% women, which is also exciting, because we want different experiences, and we shoot for cognitive diversity, right? So, we're looking for people that think differently about solving problems, and are not encumbered by what they've seen in the past, because we're trying to be tip of spear. And, I'm sure you know that from Paul Daugherty. >> Yeah. >> We are trying to be three to five years over the horizon. >> You guys got a good narrative. I always love talking to Accenture, they have a good vision. So, I got to ask you, the next logical question is, obviously, in the news, you see everyone talking about breaches, and ya know, it's not a breach if the door's open, you just walk in. They're really walking in, nothing was really breached, you're just giving it to them. >> Yeah. It's a passive invitation. >> (laughs) Hey come on in. Human error is a big part of it, but then, breach is obviously targeted, phishing, and all that good stuff. But, as those stories get told, there's a whole nother set of stories that aren't being told that are super important. So, I'd love to get your thoughts on, what are the most important stories that we should be talking about that aren't being talked about? >> Yeah, so I have two that are front-of-mind for me. One theme we come back to, and it's not sexy, it's hygiene. It is IT hygiene, and so many of the large companies, and even medium, small companies, we have legacy technology, and keeping that adds complexity, it adds to the whole breadth and depth of what we have to manage and defend. Keeping that attack surface simple and small, cloud-enabled, all those good things, is a real asset and it makes it much easier to defend. So, that's kind of the first non-sexy one, hygiene. The other one I'll say that I think is a challenge that we are not dealing with yet, quantum computing, right? And so, we're on the way to getting our post quantum cryptography in place, but there's another dimension to it, and it's our histories. So, all of the things that have passed on the wire, all the communications with the key exchanges, all that brilliant stuff, is sitting somewhere. Once we get to that point where this becomes very routine, and it's coming fast, we predicted eight years, two years ago. >> So, all that exhaust is somewhere, pent up. >> It's somewhere that, we have to think about how much data we're keeping as custodians, how we're managing it, and then we have to think about the exposure from our past, and say, "Okay, what does that mean that, that was out there?" "Is it aged enough that it doesn't have value?" And, I think there's a real triage that needs to be done, and certainly data management. >> I think, you know, the hygiene brings up a good point. It reminds me of the story Andy Jassy was telling about the mainframe customer that they couldn't find who had the password. They had to find their person, who was retired 10 years earlier to get the password. You don't forget things, but also, there's a human component in all this. Humans and machines are working together. >> Absolutely. >> And. that's a huge part of it. It's not just machines dominating it all, there's going to be a human component, there's a societal impact that we're seeing with information. And, whether that's out in the open, or behind closed doors, there's all kinds of things looming. >> There are, and I think one of the things in the companies that we're seeing who are embracing innovation well, are doing a lot of retraining. Because, the things that people are excellent at, AI is not good at, and the things that AI is good at, are not at all what people are good at. So, the good news is there is a beautiful teaming there, if we retool the skills, or if we re-envision those roles, so that people can get into those roles, and I think that's really important, because I'd rather see AI do all the heavy lifting well, and be trustworthy, and robust and all those great things, and the people be doing the much smarter things that require a human. >> Does the process serve the purpose? Does the purpose serve the process? Same kind of question, right? >> Exactly. >> AI, you can't have great AI that does nothing. >> That's right. >> (laughs) So, it has to be relevant. >> It absolutely does. >> Relevance is kind of a big thing. >> And we own that context, right? Humans own that context. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming in, and sharing the insight. Really appreciate it. Final question, it's always tough to pick your favorite child, but what is your most coolest thing you're working on right now? >> I'll tell you, the cyber digital twin stuff is so cool. >> The what? >> The cyber digital twin stuff is so cool. When you see the power of what that picture, and the analytics can do, we'll show ya. >> Do you have a demo of that now? >> We absolutely do. >> You do. Is it online, or is it more in person you got to see it? >> More in person. >> Okay. >> Folks can reach out, yeah. >> We'll have to get the exclusive on that. >> We do. >> I love those simulations. I think it's very beneficial. >> It is. >> A lot of learning. I mean, who doesn't want practice? >> Well, and a picture, you know that is worth a million dollars. It's just incredible to look at it, and it clicks. It clicks of all the potential things you could ask or do. And, that's the exciting part now, as we show this with customers' and we co-innovate with customers', they're coming up with a laundry list of questions. >> And, this is the beautiful thing about cloud, is that new capabilities are emerging every day, and you could use the good ones. Lisa O'Connor is here. Thank you very much for sharing your insights. Global Security R&D Lead for Accenture Labs. TheCUBE coverage, getting all the signal here on the show floor, extracting that from all the noise. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live, from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next '19. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. Live coverage here with theCUBE in San Francisco, California, Moscone South. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Here at Google Next 2019 we have here in theCUBE for the first time as a Google employee, Cube alumni, Amit Zavery. Head of platform for Google Cloud. Great to see you. >> No, thanks for having me. It's always a pleasure to see you guys again. >> So you're just now on the job, not even two months. 25 years, 23? >> Amit: Close to 25, yes. >> Three years at Oracle. TK's over here as CEO, part of Google. They got a lot of action going on here. >> Oh definitely, it's very exciting times. I've spent some time kind of learning and hearing about what the vision at Google has been and it's very clear they're here to win it and we have the investment that they're making, the innovation which is going on is very attractive and very exciting, I think. >> Always love our conversations in the past in theCUBE around platform You got a deep technical background. Um you've been in the business. You've seen many waves of innovation up and down the stack. So it's not, I don't think there is a move you haven't seen in the business. But Cloud, there's some new things happening, it's going to, but it's all part of other things, kind of meshing together. Pun intended, service meshes. >> Yeah. >> But as customers move to the cloud from on prem, having cloud, multiple clouds, multiple dimensions of change. >> Yes. What's your take on this because, I think, you have a unique perspective in that 20 something years at Oracle, leader in databases and software? >> Yeah. >> Google's got great leadership in tech. >> Yep. >> But now they're standing up a whole new cloud business, at a whole 'nother level. Your thoughts? >> Yeah, yeah, I think if you look at what's going on and I talk to a lot of customers and developers and IT teams and clearly, I think, they are overwhelmed with different things, you said, going on in this space, so how do you make it simple? How do you make it open? How do you make it hybrid so you have flexibility of choices? It's becoming top of the mind for many of the users nowadays. The lock-in, which many vendors currently provide, becomes very difficult for many of this uh users who kind of keep moving around and meet the business requirements. So I think having a solution and a technology stack, which is really understanding the complexity around that and making it simple enough to adopt, I think is important. >> You know, one of these things, we watch these key notes very carefully. Especially when you have a new CEO, Thomas Kurian. We follow NetApp as well as his twin brother. But his first opening line was a little you know, tip of the cap to Diane Greene, which I thought was very classy. We hear all the other things. Scale, the multi-cloud piece. And then Jennifer Lynn gave a great demo, and she said something in her demo I want to get your reaction to. What are the business benefits of Anthos' negotiating contracts? Meaning choice. >> Yes. So lock-in's shifting. This means lock-in is not your grandfather's lock-in. You know, you worked at Oracle which has an amazing lock-in spec in databases. This is a whole new world, it's capabilities, the new lock-in. Or what is the new, I mean I guess lock-in is a function of-- >> Amit: No I mean, (mumbles) Again, it's not ideas. Lock-in is definitely not the right way of kind of looking at it. The way to kind of really make sure you attract users and attract customers, is to really make a value add capabilities in there. Right and then if the customers really love it they're going to keep on using it. In respective you call it lock-in or provide some propriotariness or not. >> Value. >> Right. Value is complete, exactly. I think it's important to really think about how you build some of the services and technologies which give this value. But also give you the choice of moving if you want to. That I think, if you start from the beginning that there's no choice, then the value doesn't come out, ever. >> John: So value's the new lock-in. >> It has to be, it has to be. >> Alright, talk about apogee. because you're one of the key piece of the platform is apogee. Talk about your focus, you're still learning, getting your feet wet. But again, you've got your running shoes on, you're experienced. What is that platform that you're handling. Give a quick description. >> Apogee, an acquisition, which Google made a few years ago. And I think it's a kind of center spaced offering which allows customers to really do the life cycle and digital transformation of the technology they have in the back end. Right and uh the apogee team has done a great job of keeping, being the market leader and keeping innovating. I think the next phase for us as we look forward is one is to make it very completely integrated and make it very seamless with all the rest of Google properties we have and the assets we have and second thing is to really add other capabilities around it so that customers depending on what they want to do like line of business or IT steams to be able to now unlock a lot of the application data they have and expose it to both the customer, spotners, as well as internal employees in a simple easy manner. So a lot of wantization can happen, monitoring, all these things can be really great for them. >> John: So there's a lot of head room in apogee. >> Very very much yes. >> By technology and business benefit. >> Dave: So head of platform. You know we in the industry we hear platform and we kind of understand what it's all about. People outside the industry maybe, some of an inmorphis concept to them. So my first question though before we get into this, what attracted you to Google? >> No I think that basically if I look at the strength Google brings as a organization, be it in terms of innovation, be it in terms of investment, the infrastructure and the willingness to invest in the long term. I think that is really really attractive. I think for me to kind of have the ability to kind of invest and grow a lot of the footprint we have to offer to a customer and solve the business problems in a little more longer term than short term oriented, I think is very very exciting. >> So let's talk more about platforms. You think of platforms as a set of capabilities steeped in sort of an architectural premise, there's maybe some dog mutt in there that you've got have have these capabilities then ultimately you're going to deliver value and turn into products and customer value. What is platform to you and what's that sort of how should we think about that fly wheel effect? >> Yeah in the way that I look at the platform is basically one is capabilities the customer require, one to build an application, integrate it, and be able to secure it and manage it right? So all the different capabilities you'd acquire instead of having to get piece meal of it and have to tie it all together yourself, you can now do it with a much easier fashion and one that provides you the capability as one integrated capability right? So that's really what I think of the platform. >> So your constituencies are obviously your internal developers, your external developers. Who are you serving with that platform? >> A few audiences. No doubt to others to be able to build an application. But I think the bigger audience if you go beyond that is really, apps IT and a line of business. So to them more and more line of business at doing extension to an application. The doing integration without having the right code. And if you can provide a powerful tool where any person who is not a professional developer can do that kind of tasks and get more power out of the application of the business systems they're running, the value is immense. And that's really I think the audience we need to be able to attract and be able to now cater to so that they have a lot more benefits from using the Google platform. >> Is that part technical capability, part you know, go to market? How do you view that? >> It's definitely a lot of work to be done from the product perspective to make it simple um make it more consumable by apps IT and line of business user where such professional developers but also in terms of how you design it and make it self service and attractive enough for an audience who is not really kind of having to do deal with a lot of this themselves. >> Okay so that's presumably what we should be expecting from you. Maybe talk about your priorities and give us a little you know, how should we be, sort of, judging you down the road, judging you not the right term but what milestones should we be looking for? >> A little too early, I mean this is four weeks at Google but I think uh, the way to look at this is are we basically catering to all the new requirements you see from a lot of the next generation users and I think uh, the ability for us to kind of expand that capability in a platform offering so it's not just catering to one kind of an audience but also new buyers which we seeing as users coming into the platform. So over the next six months or nine months we start seeing some of those things which you do. >> Is this a new role? Was it sort of by committee before or? >> No I think Google has been doing a lot of these things I think when you start to think about a rationalized skew of the areas and how do you keep on expanding. There's a lot of headroom for Google cloud to go and we continue to kind of look at where we need to be and how we can keep on expanding and meet those requirements. >> Amit talk about Thomas Kurian also known as TK onstage. He's been busy, he's going to come on the queue eventually. He's talking to a lot of customers we heard. Hundreds of customers been promoted. You worked in that oracle, what's he like? Share some color commentary on TK, he set the chops obviously in enterprise. What's he like? People, he's new CEO. >> Yeah, yeah I've worked with Thomas for 18 plus years and I think he's probably one of the smartest person I've worked with for sure. But I think it's very strategic vision and clear execution. I think combination is rare for a lot of people. We have a very clear vision but how do you execute and get operationally make those things possible? I think that really what Thomas brings to any any place he gets into. Right so he has a very clear idea where we should be going, he talks to a lot of customers, get you all the input and has a clear plan in terms of how we deli, what we should be doing. And then he gets very involved wit the execution operational work we should be doing right? So that is the unique thing to bring to the table. >> John: He can get down and dirty if you want him to do it. >> Yeah oh very much, yes yes. (laughs) He's fun to work with in that way. >> So I want to ask you a personal question I know we've been following your career, certainly you got a great, great technical background as well. As you look at the cloud, and having all that enterprise experience, you see many ways in innovation, hardware, software, evolution to the cloud. As you look at the modern enterprise, you mentioned IT apps, apps IT, it's a whole new app revolution renaissance happening. You got hybrid and multi cloud. What does it mean to be enterprise ready? If you could take all the learnings in your career, as you look at the new, you know, out in the new pasture, of the next ten years plus, you see changes happening, what's your vision? >> I think that enterprise ready for us, I mean I think that's what we are doing a lot, if you saw today from Thomas' announcements, there's a lot of things we are planning and we have been doing already and we need to do as well. But I think it's understanding the existing landscape of a customer. And enterprise, let's use them on and invest on many customers we've made and systems you can't rip and replace instantly. And to be able to understand how you operate in that kind of constrains as well as context is very important when you build new generational applications. So kind of having the connectivity and the tissue of kind of making it all work together, while you kind of modernize and digitally transform your offering, I think is a critical way of thinking. And I think that's what you'll start seeing a lot more of that from the product planning, product delivery perspective and understanding that yet many customers have to pay before they can move everywhere right? So you saw today with Thomas' announcement about hybrid which allows you to kind of inter operate with existing investments. Multicloud because you might be running into multiple environments. As well as you saw some the things we doing to really make it easy and simple to integrate with the existing portfolio that customers have. >> You know what's interesting is that you know, he also mentioned industries, which you guys at Oracle certainly you know every industry's got unique requirements. What's interesting and kind of validates on a queue we've, Dave and I have talked for years that the clouds horizontally scalable yet with data and AI you can be differentiated in the industry level so you can actually have best of both worlds now. That's what I see kind of coming together at the platform 'cause you have to have a platform that enables. How do you see that? Do you agree with that? Do you see that shaping out? How would you see that ability to take advantage of the horizontal scale, the ability, connective tissue, plus enabling this horizontal specialization for industry solutions? >> Yeah, no I think you saw again some of the announcements around that, with how do you make it not pertinent to a particular end user. Alright each industry has specific data models, specific use cases and you need to be able to provide and cater to that. So you have to have a horizontal platform which can cater to multiple, different things you want to do. But then you'd have to provide the main specific content and that's when you'll start seeing as you think that Oracle does some of the things that other companies do that and we will do some of that stuff as well. >> Well that's interesting point because you're in a point of a horizontal scaling because it creates this, uh, another disruption agenda. Yeah you can disrupts search and productivity software but you can also triverse industries with your partners. We were talking about apogee before with the API economy. You can see Google and its partners getting the healthcare, financial services, autonomist vehicles, I mean virtually every industry because it's data and that to me is the exciting part of platform. >> Oh no doubt. I think Google also brings a lot strength in terms of the modeling and the AI work they've been doing for many years and that can really exhilarate capabilities around these things in a much more easier way than it could be otherwise. >> And you kind of have a clean sheet of paper in the enterprise >> That's right. >> Amit great to see you, I'm glad we can get your first public appearance at Google here in theCUBE. Appreciate the commentary, I want to finally, final question is, personal question. If you were a cloud architect for a large enterprise that had complex to simple work loads and everything in between, what would you be doing in advising and setting up and architecting, what would you, what would you do? >> I think that the best thing to do I think is to identify different categories of applications. I don't think it's one thing fits all right? So define what are the categories of applications you have. Some of them are cloud ready and make sure that you can, status are ready and adoption and moving to more agile delivery model. Second on the application which you might want to now start thinking about rewriting and then having a road map associated with that so you're not trying to go and rip and replace because that has an impact on your business and capabilities right? And then third thing we might want to look at retiring some of the staff and then hey you have to modernize, I mean there's nothing, there's no way out of it. Just like software goes through cycles of innovation and changes every ten years you see a new stack of technologies come out and you have to remain competitive by adopting some of the states. So I think that's kind of in recognizing what you have and how you adopt is probably the number one thing. >> And you'll be probably driving containers throughout >> No doubt, I think the technologies out there now with the containerization, much much simpler to kind of go and run and write one's, run anywhere kind of thing. >> Those scenarios is kind of what the guy from Kohl's was saying today in the key note >> Yeah they're very similar yeah. >> He didn't say this, this one use case of just leave it there which was interesting to me. So, do nothing was not his strategy. It is, it is for some. >> Amit Zavery here on theCUBE. Great, great insight, thanks for sharing. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule. Amit Zavery head of platform at Google Cloud here on theCUBE. I'm John Furrier. See us with more day one coverage. We're here for three days. Live, we'll be right back after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next '19. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back everyone. It's theCUBE's live coverage here in San Francisco in Moscone South. We're on the ground floor here at Google Next, Google's Cloud conference. I'm chatting with Stu Miniman; Dave Vellante's also hosting. He's out there getting stories. Our next two guests: Dana Berg, Chief Operating Officer of SADA and Chris Lehman, Head of Engineering for SADA. Guys, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for joining us. We're here on the ground floor. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> This is exciting. I feel like a movie star right here. >> It's game day here. All the tech athletes are out, Dave. If you look at the show, look at the demographics, hardcore developers, lot of IT, leaders also here, cloud architects, a lot of people trying to figure it out. We heard the keynote. Google is bringing a lot to the table. So what's new with you guys? You guys recently sold your Microsoft business, going all-in on Google. Talk about that relationship. >> We are. This is a brand new day for SADA. The energy around this place, where we are in the market, and where we are with the expanded attendance here has actually reaffirmed our business strategy to go all-in with Google. I don't know if you are aware but SADA has been around for almost 20 years. Historically have always been leaders in bringing people to the cloud even before there was really much of a cloud. We were a you know a pilot partner within Microsoft and Google and had a great thriving Microsoft business but an even bigger Google business and you know, we looked at the tea leaves, we looked at where we wanted to be, and aligned with a company that shared our mission and values and it was a clear choice. We chose Google. We made a very specific and deliberate act to sell off our Microsoft business so that we could take the horsepower of all of our engineering staff and apply them to Google. >> It's interesting you know, we've been around for 10 years doing theCUBE, go to a lot of events, I mean Dave Vellante, Stu, and I have been around for 30 years covering the IT, you guys 20 years. You guys have seen many ways of innovation come and go. Now you're going all in on Google. What is it about this wave right now that made that decision? What do you guys see? You're seeing something early here. Expand on that. Give us some color commentary because there's a wave here, right? A lot of people try. It's a combination of things. I mean, we saw the client-server thing. We saw that movement. Also the internet, we saw the web, mobile, now it's cloud. What's the big wave? What are you guys riding? >> I think there's a couple of things and I think it's unique to, philosophically, how we think of our real special relationship with Google. There is a momentum, right, and not to quote like a Bernie Sanders, but, seems like there's a revolution going on here, right, and, you know, I think, you know, what we see when we look around and we hear conversations and even with our customers, the way that we're all winning together is because we're winning the hearts and minds of the people inside of our customer base that are actually the ones responsible for inventing and the ones responsible for building, so when we're in board rooms and we're selling and along with Google, we're talking with developers, we're talking with designers, we're talking about people that are actually driving the vision for these business applications. We're not always talking to the CIO down like some of our other competitors seems to have only been able to sell that way. We're talking about the people responsible for not only constructing it but maintaining it. So that revolution is there. These folks are bubbling that up and they're seeing the real value inside of Google and what is that value from our point of view, and why did we make such a bold statement just to stick with Google is, and we saw Thomas today echo this, I think there's very few cloud providers that are bold enough to actually lead with the fact that we want our customers to have full choice whether you're using GCP or not. We want to build, architect, and manufacture a product offering that allows you to keep your stuff in your data centers, move your stuff to AWS. That power of choice is really not like what we've never heard anywhere else. >> And then on top of that, too, you got an application renaissance, right? A whole new way of coding, infrastructure that's programmable and going away, I mean if you think about what that does to the existing infrastructures, they can now mix and match and rearchitect everything from scratch and accelerate the app movement. >> Well, that's absolutely true, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that there are managed services in the cloud which makes it dramatically easier to build applications of course, so there's no question about that. Some of the offerings on GCP are particularly attractive for our clients, particularly the managed Kubernetes service. That's where we're seeing perhaps most of the interest that we're seeing, like that's a very common theme. Also the ML stack is an area that our customers are very interested in. >> Chris, can you bring us in some of those customer environments, you know, one of the things you hear, you know, most customers, it's, "I've got my application portfolio." Modernizing that is pretty challenging. There are some things that are kind of easy, some things that take a lot more work, but, you know, migration is one of those things that makes most people that have been in IT a while cringe because there's always the devil in the details and something goes wrong once you've got 95 percent done. What are you seeing, what's working, what's not working, how's the role of data changing, and all of that? >> I think migrations are usually more complex than they at first appear and so even with best intentions thinking that customers can just move their workloads seamlessly to the cloud have actually in practice been more challenging. So some of the areas that we find challenges are around data migration, especially in the context of zero downtime. That's always more difficult than with applications. So that's definitely an area that were we're spending a lot of time working with our customers to deliver. >> Just to add to that, I have to keep reminding myself of the name, but obviously the Anthos announcement today sounds incredibly intriguing as a lower barrier of effort to actually migrate. Our customers have been trying to really absorb and take a hold of Kubernetes and can it containerize methods for a long time. Some are having a harder time doing it than others. I think Anthos promises to make that endeavor much, much easier, and I think about as we leave here this week and we go back and we reeducate our own engineering teams as well as our customers, I think we might see some highly accelerated project timelines go from here down to here. >> And the demo that Jennifer Lynn did was pretty impressive. I mean, running inside of containers, whether it's VMs, and then having service patches on the horizon coming to the table is going to change the implementation delivery piece too in a massive way. I mean, you've got-- >> Oh, absolutely. >> Code, build, run on the cloud side, but this this kind of changes the equation on your end. Can you guys share the insight into that equation, because Google's clearly posturing to be partner friendly. You guys are a big partner now. You're going all-in. This is an interesting dynamic because you can focus on solving customers' problems. All this heavy lifting kind of goes away. Talk about the impact to you as a partner when you look at Anthem, Anthem migrate in particular, some of these migration challenges with containers and Kubernetes seems like it's a perfect storm right now to kind of jump in and do more, faster. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's certainly very interesting. Well, we'll want to take a really hard look at it. I mean, a very, very cool announcement. Moving to containers in the source prior to the migration obviously solves a lot of challenges so for that reason, it's definitely a move forward. >> And I think... You know, we always talk about, in this industry, the acceleration for consumption, but really that's a poor way of saying... Probably what we should be saying is an acceleration of value. So we're constantly in this battle to try and deliver value to our customers faster. That's what our customers want, right, and in essence we see Anthos as being potentially a big game-changer there so that, you know, our CIOs that we're talking with can show to their various stakeholders that they are making very good proactive moves into the cloud at lower-caught barriers of entry, right? >> Yeah. So, you brought up the the ML piece of Google. Wondering if you could help share a little bit on that. When I think back two years ago, you know, data was really at the core of what a lot of what Google was talking about. I was actually surprised not to hear a lot of it on the main stage this morning, but you know, AI, ML, what are you doing, what are your customers doing, does Google have leadership in the space? >> Google certainly has leadership in the space. Our customers, I think, relatively universally, think that their ML stack is the strongest among the competitors, but I think in practice what we're finding is there's a lot more urgency as far as just literal data migrations off of their data centers into the cloud, and I foresee a lot more AI and ML work as more move in. >> John: Yeah. >> So you might, in our booth here, not to give a plug, but we've got a booth down at the end with a full-fledged racing car, just to talk about the art of the possible with AI and ML. Our engineering teams in the race teams that we sponsor, they're there, the driver's there, you should go down and talk to 'em. We've taken all the race telemetry data for the last six months and all of his races and practices, we've aggregated that data all into GCP, run AI and ML algorithms on it to provide his racing team some very predictive ways that he can get better and that team can get better, and so I'd invite just anybody that wants to go there and take a look at, even if you're in banking, or if you're in retail, or if you're in health care, take a look at some of how that was done, because it's a very, very powerful way, to answer your question, head and shoulders down why Google is actually accelerating and exceeding in AI. >> And one of the things that Thomas Kurian showed onstage was the recent Hack-a-Thon they had with the college students with the NCAA data of the game that just finished, and throughout that experience, this is a core theme of GCP, and now Anthos, which is getting data in and using it easily, and scaling at a scale level that seems unprecedented. So this team seems to be the application... The new differentiator. >> I think it is. I think that announcement, obviously the big three takeaways for us, certainly, scale, unmatched. Certainly speed and migration with Anthos. If I could highlight one other, I was incredibly pleased with, well I've been pleased since Thomas' arrival in general by bringing an enterprise class strategy within sight of Google that I think are going to respond well to our enterprise customers, and part of enterprise class is also making sure that their partner community has amazing enhancement programs that really incentivize those partners that are actually in the full managed services space from cradle to grave, lifetime customer value. So we're very excited about even further announcements this week that no doubt have been inspired by Thomas to try and really take advantage of their partner community that are in the business of cradle to grave support of customers. >> You feel comfortable with Thomas. He's taught a lot of customers, he knows the enterprise. >> We've had an opportunity to meet with him. We've had some shared customers that have had a great privilege of getting to know him and support us and collectively them. >> John: He knows the partner equation pretty well, and the enterprise. >> Without a doubt. >> It's about partnering, because there's a monetization, the shared go to markets together. Talk about the importance of that and what's it like to be a partner. >> Yeah, without a doubt, again, you know, his embrace of the open-source community that you saw today, really taking advantage of highlighting partner value is wonderful, but I think Thomas, above anything else, knows that Google needs to scale. They need to scale, and then they have to have breadth and they have to have depth, and, you know, to get to where Google needs to be over the course of the next two, three years, it's wonderful, it's refreshing, it's 100% accurate that Google knows and Thomas knows that the path to do that is via partners; partners that share in Google's vision, that are 100% aligned to the same things that Google is aligned with, and I think that's why I'm so thankful to be at SADA, large in part, because all of the things that we care about in terms of our customer success as well as Google's success, we all share that, so it's a great trifecta. >> It's a ground-floor opportunity. Congratulations. Guys, talk about your business. What's going on? You've got some new offices I heard you opened up. What's going on in the state of the business? Obviously the Google focus you're excited about obviously. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> There, at the beginning, I called Google the dark horse. I think with the tech that they have and the renewed focus on the enterprise, building on what Diane Greene had put foundationally, Thomas is meeting with hundreds of customers. He's so busy he doesn't have time to come on theCUBE, but he'll come on soon, but he's focused. This is now a great opportunity. Talk about your business. What's the state of the union there? Give an update. >> I can take that one if you don't mind. >> Go ahead. >> You can add poetic color if you want. (laughing) Yeah, so as I said, we're entering a new journey for SADA in light of renewed focus, renewed conviction to Google. We are investing more than we ever have into the common belief that Google is the one to beat in terms of momentum, drive, and ultimately winning the hearts and the minds of who we've talked about. So, over the last four months, we've opened five new offices in New York, Austin, Chicago, Denver. Our headquarters is in Los Angeles, and just recently, we just opened a brand new office in Toronto, so we can really help our Canadian customers really see the the same type of white-glove treatment we provide those customers in the States and so that's why, well, I wasn't earlier, but I'm walking around with a Canadian flag. We're very excited about the presence that we're going to have in Canada >> Its "Toronno." I always blow and I call it "Toron-to," being the American that I am. It's "Toronno." >> Dana: Glad you said it right. Good. >> Now, on the engineering side, so you guys are on the front lines as also a sales, development, there's also customer relationship, engineering side, so I'm sure you guys are hiring. There's some hard problems to solve out there. Can you guys share some color commentary on the type of solutions you guys are doing? What's the heavy? What solutions are you solving, problems that you're solving for customers, what are the key things that you got going on? >> Yeah. >> Well, a lot of cloud migrations, a lot of web and application development, custom development, and data pipelines. I'd say those are really the three key focus areas that we're working on at the moment. >> One other thing, too: so... we believe that we want 100% customer retention, always, and that goes above and beyond an implementation. So the other big area of investments that we're making is in a whole revamped technical account management team, so for those of our GCP customers that have had the privilege, we've had the privilege of working with and for, we are building out a team of individuals that will, well beyond the project, stay with that customer, work with them weekly, monthly, quarterly, and try to always find ways to expand and move workloads into the cloud. We think that provides stickiness. We think that provides ultimate value to try and help our customers identify where else they can take full advantage of the cloud, and it's a fairly new program, and large in part I just want to thank Thomas and the partner team for new programs that are coming out to help us so that we can actually reinvest in things that go you know throughout the lifecycle of the customer. So, very, very good stuff. >> Dana, Chris, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. We'll check out your booth, the car's there, with the data. Bring that data exhaust to the table, pun intended. >> Yes. >> Analyzing with Google Cloud, Anthos. Good commentary. Thanks for sharing. >> Really appreciate being on board. Thanks for having us. >> Alright, great. CUBE coverage here live on the floor in San Francisco. Google Next 2019. This is Google's cloud conference. Customers are here. A lot of developers. More action, live on the day one of three days of coverage after this short break. Stay with us. (theCUBE Theme)

(upbeat music) >> From San Francisco, it's The Cube, covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with the Cube. We're coming to the end of a long day here at the Conga Connect West Event. It's at The Thirsty Bear, just a couple doors down from Moscone South. And as you can see behind me, the silent disco has begun. You can't hear it, but they're all dancing. So, we're excited to have our next guest. He's Steve DeMarco, the chief revenue officer of Conga. Steve, great to see you. >> Great to be here, Jeff, thanks. >> So how about, your first week on the job you get to come on The Cube. Not a bad deal. (Jeff laughing lightly) >> It's fantastic. I'm a big fan of you guys, and it's great to be here. >> Thank you, and they're spending all your money on this big, expensive party. >> I know, I better go sell something. >> You better sell something. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So, you just started. I'm teasing you, but what attracted you? You've been in the valley for a long time, you see a lot of opportunities. What attracted you to Conga? >> Well, I've known these guys for a while. I've known Matt Shultz, our CEO, and Bob DeSantis. Those guys are veterans. I've known them for a while. I've known of Conga for a while. I know what they do, I know how they help customers. And when the opportunity came up to join them, I jumped at it. It's kind of my dream job, to be honest with you. >> Oh that's awesome. >> What they sell, helping customers be more productive, they have a great customer base, fantastic products, great reputation. I mean, I don't want to oversell it, but it was an easy decision for me. >> Yeah well there's a lot of good stuff going on, like you said. >> Yeah. >> They're attached to this rocket ship. Got a 65-story building just down the street. >> That's right. >> That's a good one to attach to. >> That's right. >> And really playing in a good space. >> Yeah that's it, I've been in the Salesforce ecosystem with one company or another, for about 13 years now and so, I'm really familiar with Salesforce, and the partner opportunities here. So it was a perfect fit for me. >> Good, so I wanted to take it up a notch and talk about something I think is pretty special and under-reported and that's really when, you've got an ongoing relationship and a SAS relationship-- >> Yeah. >> When you're paying monthly, or annually, or whatever your payment rate is, it's a very different conversation. Customer, vendor relationship, than if I send you some software. I send it off and then I'll see you in 12 months for the 15 percent. >> Right. >> It's a fundamentally different way of being associated with a customer. >> Yeah, and me, like a lot of veterans in technology, started out selling software products as a perpetual license, right? And we would go and try to get a big check up front and then, whether the customer used the software or not, we didn't care. We got our money up front. Salesforce was one of the pioneers of the cloud solution, or delivering it as a SAS solution. And SAS really puts the power in the customer's hands, because you don't get all that money up front, they pay for it as a subscription. And as such, they can shut you off if they're not happy. >> Right. >> That's a very powerful concept. So vendors like Conga have to continuously improve our product and make our customers happy, period after period after period, in order to keep them renewing. >> Right. >> So it's a great concept, puts the power in the customer's hands, and it really pushes us to be better for our customers. >> You know, we heard this story earlier today with one of your customers, was talking about a successful implementation they had on the document creation system, but then they wanted to get into a new product, which I guess the contract system was so early, hadn't even delivered it. But she said to her boss, "Hey listen, I trust these guys, "they're not going to let me hang." >> That's right. >> "So I'm willing to take that bet. "We need this, and this is a partner "that that I feel comfortable "in making this investment." >> That's right, I mean Jeff, that's just a testament to Conga's place in the market. They've geen doing this for many years. They have thousands and thousands of extremely happy customers. Customers trust us. Customers trust Conga. That was another attraction to me. And for a customer to be able to take that kind of leap with a vendor, it's a very special thing. Conga's reputation proceeds itself, and that's how our customers feel about us. >> Right, and also Salesforce knew you were coming. So they baked a couple of your core products into their core products. >> Right. >> That worked out pretty well. >> That's huge. Salesforce now, I've known them for 12, 15 years, they don't do that. They do not do that very often. I mean, you can count on one hand how many partners they've actually baked into their product set. And so it's a special relationship we have with Salesforce. We're proud of it. But it's going to be a really good thing for them and their customers, working with Conga in that capacity. >> So last question, I think you've been here a week, you said? You're just getting going. So what are some of your priorities? You're coming in, fresh breath of air, a lot of enthusiasm, as you look forward, what is some of the stuff you're itching to get to work on? >> Well we're going to expand our partnerships, our SI partners, our systems integrated partners. We're going to continue to work really closely with Salesforce. It's all about growth. Grow, grow, grow. We have a great sales team today. We're going to really attack the market. We've got some great competition out there, so we're going to face them, and it's going to be a lot of fun. >> Alright well Steve, thanks for taking a few minutes of your time. I'll let you get back to the customers, the party. Get some headphones on and start dancing. >> Alright, thank you. >> He's Steve, I'm Jeff, and you're watching The Cube, we're at Conga Connect West at Salesforce. Thanks for watching, see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey, welcome back. Get ready, Jeff Frick with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Francisco. It's Salesforce, Dreamforce. They're telling me it's 170,000 people which I find hard to believe but I'm not out there walking around in the traffic or stuck in an Uber. Hopefully you aren't either. We're excited, we're at the Conga Connect West of it. Here at the Thirsty Bear, they're giving out free drinks, free entertainment, free food. Stop on by, just a couple steps over from Moscone South and they'll be here for all three days. So we're excited to be here, too. First Salesforce, we've got some great guests lined up for you today. Talk about the whole life cycle of this cash-to-quote, or quote-to-cash, excuse me. To Sharmon Moss first, she is the Practice Lead at ATG for CLM. Sharmon, great to see you. >> It's great to be with you, Jeff. >> Absolutely, and with her is Bob Grewal. He is VP of Enterprise Contract Sales for Conga. Bob, great to see you. >> You as well. Glad that we are here. >> So, what an event. Just before we jump into it, you guys said you did this last year, you had such a great turnout, you had kind of up the investment. >> Yeah, so last year, we did a phenomenal amount of events, we wanted to provide our customers opportunity to come in and have a place where they can meet with us, socialize, meet our technical folks but at the same time, enjoy themselves and find a place to relax and work. We do a disco party, a silent disco party last year, that was phenomenal and over-subscribed so this year we ended up having to put a tent in the back and maybe even a bigger investment so our people and partners can come in here and have a great place work, meet and greet, and learn. >> Great. So Sharmon here, she is a Practice Lead out in the field with all the customers. >> It's true. >> So we talk a lot, we go to a lot of tech events at theCUBE and we always talk about people processing tech. And more often than not, the tech is the easiest part. >> It's true. >> To really make this stuff work, so give us kind of what you see in the field, kind of the state of the market in contract management. >> So what we're seeing at ATG, we are a technology management consulting firm and what we've seen recently is, you know, we had the whole optimization of CPQ over the last four or five years and right now, we're really seeing the digitalization of contract management really take a front place in what companies are trying to automate. And that's why we're so excited to work with the team at Conga because our synergies and the way we work together and our cultures are so similar that we're really able to provide just a great compliment to our customers. >> So when you say automating contract management, the first thing the probably goes into most people's heads, at least the first time I heard it, was no way, there's so much nuance, there's so much you know, legalese and maybe negotiated terms and settlements in a contract. How do you possibly automate that beyond, which is state-of-the-art ten years ago, where is it and when is it due? So what are some of the things that people, you know, what can you do today, what does the future hold, what is the state-of-the-art in contract management? >> Well, I think you nailed it on both points. So it's not just about the technology and us as the technology provider would probably argue it's not the easiest part of the solution. But I think it's the combination and the reason why ATG partnership with Conga makes so much sense for us, is that, to capture the digital transformation, or the contract automation value, we really got to do two things. One, you got to get the right technology which Conga provides today. And then you got to have the partner to work with you where we've partnered with ATG to really look at your business processes and as you do that, this is a great opportunity to review how you're doing it today, optimize that, because it's not just about going digital with it, it's really about making sure that we have the right approval process. And then you say, what's possible today? Well, today, CLM has been around for a long time, right, and we think that it's hit a tipping point where it's not just about creating workflows and approval processes. In fact, in many cases, those are table stakes. We seem to do it better, we've designed it so it's easier to use, easier to manage, but the piece that we're seeing as really a focus on the datasite. How do we make that data that lives in those contracts valuable to the organization? So when you're engaging with your customers, now you have a better engagement strategy based on real data, what's changes, what being utilized in your contract. So for us, a big part of it is that we can do the workloads, we can do the approval processes, but where we're really going to differentiate ourselves is that data and making sure that we can make that work, to optimize revenue, to mitigate risk but most importantly, to be able to understand what's happening in the contract world, what you're negotiating so we can make your engagements in the future easier and faster. >> Right, right. So just curious, Sharmon, because you negotiate the contract, you go through all the pain, you know, and you finally get it signed but then generally it would just go in a drawer, or somebody's hard drive on a laptop and let's just hope they're working for us in a year from now, we didn't give them the laptop. But how does that get baked A, into making sure, there was an example earlier, that the right payment terms get into the ERP system and then also, going forward, how does that not just become a stale document that's just sitting in a repository but how do we extract the value to your point to get more benefit from that tough negotiated piece of paper that we worked so hard on. >> Right, and I think that's where we're seeing the change now. Because, historically, it was our legal teams that wanted to automate things, to make their lives simpler, and now we're seeing we need not just to support the legal teams with this information, we need to support reporting, we need to support renewals, we need to support amendments and we need those data elements that are associated. So like you said, the payment terms or the length of the term of a specific service, we needed to datatize that, put that in a system where people can search for it, discover it. So many cases, even like companies with MNA, do due diligence based on this content, right? It can't just be a piece of paper in a box somewhere anymore. It needs to be out there and that's what the future of contract management offers. We are, at this point, in the emergence of this technology where customers are starting to realize the value in that digitalization. >> Go ahead. >> If that helps. >> I was just going to say that the other thing is happening too, is the nature of business relationships is changing so much with new revenue models, right. Subscription models, you know, and kind of prorated and how do you work in your discount structure. It's so much more complicated and so much variety in the ways people are engaging with their customers. I would imagine most of the time that just kind of happens in that contract is still in that guy's laptop that we don't know where it is and we just kind of execute those things. So how is that getting surfaced and kind of bait back so that it's more of a closed loop process? >> Yeah, so a couple of things and we can talk about the processes as Sharmon walking us through kind of hey, we can automate this, we can do this. There's a couple of things in the technology side that Conga's really done and when we think about that, one is a True-up. So when we built this on the Salesforce platform, one of the things that we really did was how do we take what's been in that contract, so simple thing like the terms for payment change from 30 days to 45. Well today or traditionally, people would go and have to update that manually. Well we created a technology called True-up where you're able identify all those key factors, these key data points, and automatically have that update within your Salesforce instance. A challenge for one of our customers is renewals, right? Often we have standard policies of we're going to have to notice customers 60 days in advance of their renewal. Well sometimes we have to negotiate that and sometimes it's 90 days or six months. We've made that really easy when those terms change, we have the ability to true those up and that actually will be reflected in Salesforce automatically. So without any human intervention, outside of approving the term that you've accepted it, it automatically uploads into Salesforce. >> So Truing-up, just to repeat what you said to make sure I understand, so it's basically taking a negotiated terms and the contract and making sure it's getting into the system of records, system of engagement. >> Exactly. >> So it's implemented. >> Yup. >> It's true and another factor within the integration of the Salesforce, is that you can make some of that negotiation happen upfront. So, if you're using CPQ solution for instance, you may negotiate the quote before it even gets to the contract and that can limit the amount of Truing-up we even have to do at the end. >> Right, right. >> And that's the other piece is that one of the things we've done is when it comes to just a cash to quote, we've built a product specifically designed for the cash-to-quote. We call it Conga Contracts Negotiator Edition. And what that really is designed of is, for those customers that have quotes that are going out, that are getting quantities in negotiated, maybe a price propose change, maybe a different terms that are already listed on that quote, we've provided a technology that basically can support that so when the customer comes back with those changes, it also can be Trued-up with Salesforce without having to go in and go back and rework the quote and redo all those quantities. We've made that sync in that True-up capability available even for that quote thing. So very complimentary to the CPQ practice that ATG has today. >> Right. Just curious, Sharmon, from some of your experience with customers. What is the hardest thing that people think is going to be easy and then what's the low-hanging fruit that people go "oh my goodness, this is phenomenal," that maybe is not that hard but the value delivery is consistently over the top for people that are kind of in this journey? >> The thing that I think companies often struggle to do implement into their vision here, is that when you are buying a piece of technology to solve a problem, is that, that piece of technology on its own is not going to solve your problem. You have to take a look at the processes that you use and figure out how to optimize those along with the tools, these awesome tools, that you get with the technology and not pave your cart path. So don't keep doing the same things you've been doing for 20 years and just make them automated. Take advantage of this tool that you have. I think what people underestimate how easy it is, is all the things that they have available to them with this automation. The approval process that can be automated. I don't have to email four people and get their responses back to say "yeah, those changes are OK". That I can build that approval process, that I can build in the acceptance of changes to clauses. My legal department can say "I'll accept this as governing law or that as governing law" and give my salespeople the opportunity to do that without involving legal. And people often don't understand how easy that can be. >> Right. Fewer emails? That's got to be an easy case. >> Yeah, I wish it was just that simple but absolutely right, we're eliminating everything that lives outside of it and getting control. I mean, I couldn't agree more. Customers sometimes think the technology is going to solve the problem and it's really not just the technology when it comes to CLM. It's about the technology and the process and I think with the processes we've done and the practices we've developed, that's really helping customers get greater at adoption, greater rate of ROI, really optimize that so that they're getting a higher value. And time to evaluate what the process we use when they're looking at CLM. >> It's almost a waste of money if you don't go the extra mile for the people in the process, to really take advantage of the investment. Well Bob, Sharmon, thanks for taking a few minutes of your day and Bob, specifically, congrats on this great event and thank you for having us. >> Yeah, thank you for joining us as well and thank you for the time. >> Thank you. >> All right, he's Bob, she's Sharmon, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're at Conga Connect West at the Thirsty Bear at Dreamforce, San Francisco. Thanks for watching.

(exciting electronic music) >> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Francisco at the Thirsty Bear. We're at Dreamforce. I can't get an official number, I keep asking, but the number they're throwing around is 170,000 people, so if you're coming, do not bring your car. It will take you four days to get here from AT&T and I think the Giants have a home game today, too, which just makes things even more interesting. But we're at a special side event, it's the Conga Connect West event here at the Thirsty Bear, three doors down from Moscone South, so we're excited to be here. It's our first time at Salesforce, and to kick things off, we've got Bob DeSantis, the chief operating officer of Conga, and with him, Jason Gabbard, the head of AI strategy. So gentlemen, welcome. >> Thank you. >> Good morning, great to be here with you. >> So what a cool event. You guys have this thing rented out for three days. >> Yep. You've got entertainment, you've got the silent disco. I think tomorrow night, some crazy bands. >> Yeah, we've got an open bar, food going all day and all night, actually we did this last year, and we were so crowded that this year we rented the parking lot behind and we built two circus tents so we actually extend all the way out to the next block. We have multiple sponsors here helping us to bring their customers and their partners in. So, open bar, open food, meeting rooms, demo stations, a place to come and relax and kick back a little bit from the chaos of those 170,000 people just a block away. >> It's just crazy, so come on down and meet the Conga crew and all the people, you have a good time. Let's jump into it. The topic at hand is AI. We are all the buzz about AI, AI, AI, machine learning, artificial intelligence, and what we hear time and time again is no one, I just need to go buy some AI. Really that's not the way the implementation is going to work, but where we see it in a great example I like to use a lot that people are familiar with is Gmail, those little tiny automated responses back to that email, there's actually a ton of AI behind those setting context and voice, and this that and the other. How are you guys leveraging AI in your solutions? You've been at this for a while. AI represents a great new opportunity. >> Yeah, it really is, Jason do you want to? >> Yeah, sure, you may not be aware, but Conga has actually been developing AI inside of the contract management system for a few years now, and I came over to Conga in connection with the acquisition of a company I founded focused on AI, and so obviously, things are getting a lot more interesting, technology is getting a lot more robust. You know, I think you made a great analogy to Gmail. Inside of the Conga CLM, Conga Contracts, you'll actually see that we're starting to make suggestions around contracts, so you may load a document in and you might see a popup over in the margin that says, "Hey, is this a limitation of liability clause?" So that's one example of AI working in the background of CLM. >> Well, I was going to say, what are some of the things you look for? I had a friend years ago, he had a contract management company, and I was like, "How?" And this was before OCR, and it was not good. "How? How are you doing this?" He goes, "No, if we just tell them where's the document and when does it expire, huge value there." He sold the company, he made a ton of money. But obviously, time has moved along. A lot of different opportunities now, so what are some of the things you do in contract lifecycle management? >> Think of that example as phase one of contract lifecycle management. Just get all my contracts into a common repository, give me some key metadata, like what's the value, who are the counterparties, and what's the expiration date? That's huge. So, ten years ago, 15 years ago, that was the cutting edge of CLM, contract lifecycle management, now the evolution has continued, we're in what we think of as sort of the third phase of CLM. So now, how do we actually pull actionable data out of contracts? So having the contract, you mentioned OCR, having machine readable data in a repository is great, but what's actually in the contract? What did we negotiate six months ago that now could have an impact on our business if we knew it? If we could act on it? And so with Conga AI, and the machine learning technology that Jason's company developed, and that we've now embedded in our CLM products, we can unlock the data that's hidden in documents, and make it actionable for our customers. >> So one of the things that you used to trigger that action, because the other thing about contracts we always think about, right, is you negotiate them, it's a pain in the butt, you sign them, then you put them in the file cabinet, nobody thinks about it again. So in terms of making that more of a living document beyond it's just simply time to renew, what are some of the things that you look for using the AI? Are you flagging bad things, are you looking for good things, are you seeing deltas? What are you looking for? >> I'll give you a really concrete example. We recently had a customer that negotiated a payment term to their benefit with one of their suppliers, but that payment term was embedded in the document, and their payables team was paying on net 30 when their negotiators had negotiated net 90. That data was locked in the contract. With Conga AI, we can pull that data out, update the system of record, in that case, it would have been SAP, and now the payables team can take advantage of those hard fought wins in that contract negotiation. That's just one example. >> Yeah, so two obvious use cases we're seeing day in and day out right now, number one, I'll call an on ramp to the CLM, so that's likely a new customer or relatively new customer at Conga that says, "Hey, I have 50,000 contracts." I was on the phone this morning with this precise use case. "I have 50,000 contracts, really happy to be part of the Conga family, get my CLM up and running, but now I got to get those 50,000 contracts into the system, so how do we do that?" Well, there's one way to do that, get a bunch of people together and work for a couple years and we'll have it done. The other way is to use AI to accelerate some of that. Classic misconception is that the AI is going to do all of the work, that's just not the case. At Conga, we tend to take more of a human computer symbiosis sort of working side by side, and the AI can really do the first pass. You might be able to automate something like 75% of the fields, so you can take your reduced team of people then and get the rest of the information into the system and verified, but we may be able to cut that down from a couple years to 30, 60 days, something like that, so that's one obvious use case for the technology, and then I think the second is more of a stare and compare exercise. Historically, you would see companies come in and say, "If I'm going to sign an NDA, it's got to have the following ten features, and I'll never accept x, y, and z." So we can sort of key to that with our AI, and take the first pass of a document and really do the triage, and so again, while it may not be 100%, we'll get to 80-90% and say, "Here are the three or four areas where you need to let your knowledge workers focus." >> And are there some really discrete data points that you call out in a defined field for every single contract because there always are payment terms, I imagine, obviously dates and signatures, so some of those things that are pretty consistent across the board versus, I would imagine, all of the crazy, esoteric-y stuff, which is probably their corner cases that people focus too much on relative to the value that you can get across that entire pop, 50,000 contracts is a lot of contracts. >> I don't know what your view is, but for me, I think it's follow the money. Everyone always cares about dollars, when I'm getting my dollars, and the other is follow very high risk stuff. Like indemnities, limitations and liability, occasionally you're seeing people interested in change in control, what happens if I sell my company or take on a bunch of financing, does that trigger anything? >> What's interesting about contracts is there are hundreds if not thousands of different potential clauses that could live in a contract, but in general, sort of the 90-10 rule is that there's about 40 clauses that you find in most commercial agreements, most business to business, or even business to consumer commercial agreements, so with Conga Machine Learning, we train based on the sort of use cases that extend that for a specific domain. So for example, we've done a lot of work in commercial real estate, right? So those commercial real estate agreements have that core base, but then they have unique attributes that are unique to commercial real estate, so Conga Machine Learning, as part of the Conga AI suite, can be trained to learn so that we can reduce that cycle time. You know, when we go into our tenth commercial real estate use case, it's going to be a lot more efficient, a lot faster, and a lot higher initial hit than we start training it at the beginning. For us, it's about helping customers consume the documents that make sense for their business. And machine learning is intuitively about learning, so there is this process that has to take place, but it's amazing how quickly it can learn. You use the google example, I like to think of the Amazon.com suggestion service example. They literally know what I'm going to buy before I'm going to buy it. >> Right, right. >> That didn't just happen yesterday, they've been learning that from me for the last 20 years or 15 years. We're at sort of the beginning of that phase right now in terms of B to B CLM, but it's amazing how quickly it's moving, and how quickly it's having an impact on our customers businesses. >> Yeah, I was going to ask, so where are we on the lifecycle of the opportunity of using AI in these contracts beyond just the signature date and the renewal date for some of these things? And also I would imagine, you guys can tie some of that back into your document creation process >> That's right. >> So that you again remove a lot of anomalies, and get more of a standardized process >> Yeah, so Conga provides a full digital document transformation suite, and that includes, as you mentioned, document generation capabilities, contract management, Conga AI >> Signature, the whole thing, right? >> Conga sign. So we're not here yet, but imagine if through Conga AI, we're able to learn what type of clause structure actually has a higher close rate, or a faster cycle time, or a higher dollar value for a given book of business, so customer x is selling their products to consumers or other businesses, and if we can learn, we can, how their contracts streamline and improve their effectiveness, then we can feed that right back into the creation side of their business. So that's just over the horizon. >> And then the other thing, I would imagine, is that you can get the best practices both inter-department, inter-company, and then I don't know where the legal limits are in terms of using it anonymized and the best practice data to publish benchmarks and stuff, which we're seeing more and more because people want to know the benefits of using so many of these things. You know, what's next? And then do you see triggers? Will some day it will be a trigger mechanism or is it really more a kind of an audit and adjust going forward? >> From my perspective, I think the some day is more, we're extremely focused on the analytics and the kind of discovery of documents right now, but I think looking out over the one year horizon, it's less about triggers and more about more touchpoints in the work close, and so really optimizing the contracting process, so being able to walk into a company and say, "Hey, I know you would like for this to be in all your contracts, but as a matter of practice, it's not, so maybe we need to abandon that policy, and get to a signed document faster. So more of that type of exercise with AI, and also integrating with sibling systems and testing what you expected to happen in the document versus what actually happened. That may be vis-à-vis an integration with ERP or something like that. >> It's pretty amazing, because as we know, the stuff learns fast. >> It does. >> From watching that happen with the chess and the go and everything else, and you read some of the books about exponential curves, you'll get down that path probably faster than we think. >> Yes. >> Well, Bob, Jason, thanks for taking a few minutes, and again thanks for inviting us to this cool event, and everybody come on down, there's lots of free food and drinks. >> Come down to the Thirsty Bear. >> Thanks so much. >> Alright, he's Bob, he's Jason, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at the Conga Connect West event at Dreamforce at the Thirsty Bear, come on down and see us. Thanks for watching. (energetic electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Google Cloud Next 2018, brought to you by Google Cloud, and it's Ecosystem Partners. >> Hello everyone, and welcome back theCUBE live coverage, here in San Francisco, the Moscone South. I'm John Furrier with the SiliconANGLE on theCube, with my cohost Dave Vellante, for next three days. Day one, wrap up of Google Next here. Google Cloud's premiere event. This is a different Google. It's a world changing event, in my opinion, of Google. Dave, I want to analyze day one as we put it in the books. Let's analyze and let's look at it, and critique and observe the moves that Google's making vis-à-vis the competition. And Diane Greene, who's on theCUBE earlier, great guest. Kind of in her comfort zone here on theCUBE because she talks, she's an engineer, she's super smart. She thinks free thoughts but she really has a good chessboard view of the landscape. My big walk away today is that she's got full command of what she wants to do, but she's in an uncomfortable position that I think she's not used to. And that is at VMworld, at VMware, she didn't have competition. First mover, changes the market. Certainly, winning at all fronts when VMware was starting. And they morphed over and then you know the history of Vmware: sold to EMC and then now the rest is history. But they really changed the category. They created a category. And were very successful in IT with virtual machines. She's got competition in Cloud. She's playing from behind. She's got the big guns. She's going to bring out the howitzers, you know? I mean she's got Spanner, BigQuery, all the Scale, Kubernetes. Which the internal name is Borg which has been running on the Google infrastructure. Provisioning services on all their applications with billions and billions of users. If she can translate that, that's key. So that's one observation. And the second one is that Google is taking a data centric view. Their competitive advantage is dealing with data. And if you look at everything that they're doing from TensorFlow for AI and all the themes here. They are positioning Google as with a place to bring your data. Okay, that is clear to me as a stake in the ground. With the large scale technical infrastructure they're going to roll out with SREs. Those two things to me are the front and center major power moves that they're making. The rest wrapping around it is Kubernetes, Istio, a service oriented architecture managing services not products and providing large scale value to their customers that don't want to be Google. They want to be like Google in the benefits of Scale, which comes in automation. And I think I head room for Google Cloud is IT operations. So that's kind of like my take. I think day one, the people we've had on from Google sharp as nails, no enterprise tech. Jennifer Lin, Deepti, Diane Greene. The list goes on and on. What's your take? >> Well so, first of all with what's goin' on here and Diane Greene, the game she's playing now. Completely different obviously than VMware. Where it was all about cutting costs. Vmware, when you think about it, sold for $635 million to EMC way back when. So, it was just a little scratch compared to what we're talkin' about now. She didn't have the resources. The IT business, you remember Nick Carr's famous piece on HBR 'Does IT Matter?' That was the sentiment back then. IT, waste of time, undifferentiated. Just cut costs. Cut, cut, cut. Perfect for Vmware. The game they're playing now is totally different. As you said they were late to the enterprise. Ironically, late to the "enterprise cloud" >> They got competition >> They got competition. Obviously the two big ones Microsoft and, of course, AWS. But so what might take away here is: the differentiation. So they're not panicking. They're obviously playing the open source card. Kubernetes, TensorFlow, etc. Giving back to the community. Data, they're definitely going to lead in AI and machine intelligence. No question about it. So they're going to play that card. The database, we had the folks from Cloud Spanner on today. Amazing technology. Where as you think about it, they're talkin' about a transaction-oriented database. We heard a customer today, talking about we replaced Oracle. Right? We got rid of Oracle, now-- >> When was the last time you heard that? Not many times. >> It's not often. No, and they're only $120 million company. But to her point was it's game changing for us. It's a 10-X value proposition. And we're getting the same quality that we're getting out of our Oracle databases. They're leading with apps on Google Cloud. Twitter is there. Spotify. They obviously have a lot of history. So that's part of it, part to focus. We on SiliconANGLE.com, there's a great article by Mark Albertson. He talked about the-- he compared the partner Ecosystem. Google's only about 13,000 partners. Amazon 100,000. Azure 70,000. So a long way to go there. Serverless, this is they're catching up on serverless. But they're still behind. Kind of still in Beta, right? &But serverless, John, I'd love your take on this. Can be as profound as virtualization was. Last to developer love. They've got juice with developers. And then the technology. Massive scale. We heard things about Spanner, the relational semantics. BigQuery, Kubernetes, TensorFlow. They have this automate or die culture. You talked about this in your article. That's a bottoms-up engineering culture. Much different than the traditional enterprise top-down "Go take that hill! "You're going to get shot at but take that hill by midnight" >> It's true. Well I mean, first of all, I think developers are in charge. I think one of the things that's happening is that it's clear is that every company, whether you're a start up or large enterprise, has to come to grips with if they're going to be a software company. And that's easy to say "Oh, that's easy. You just hire some software developers" No, it's not that easy. One, there's software developers coming out. But the way IT was built and the way people were buying IT, it's just not compatible with what software developers want to do. They want to work in a company that's actually building software. They don't want to be servicing infrastructure. So, saying that everyone's going to be a software company is one thing. That's true. And so that's the challenge. And I think Google has an opportunity. Just like Oedipus has been dominating with service-oriented approach managing services. By creating building blocks that create large Scale that allow people to write software easily. And I think that's the keyword. How do I make things common interface. You asked Diane Greene about common primitives. They're going to do the foundational work needed. It might be slower. But at a core primitive, they'll do that work. Because it'll make everything a faster. This is a different mind shift. So again, you also asked one of the guests, I forget who it was, IT moves at a very slow speeds. It's like a caravan-- >> You said glacial >> But yeah, well that used to be. But they have to move faster. So the challenge is: how do you blend the speed of technology, specifically on how modern software is being written, when you have Cloud Scale opportunities? Because this is not a cost cutting environment. People want to press the gas, not the brake. So you have a flywheel developing in technology, where if you are right on a business model observation, where you can create differentiation for a business, this is now the Cloud's customers. You know, you're a bank, you're a financial institution, you're manufacturing, you're a media company. If you can see an opportunity to create a competitive advantage, the Cloud is going to get you there really fast. So, I'm not too hung up on who has the better serverless. I look at it like a car. I want to drive the car. I always want to make sure the engine doesn't fall out or tires don't break. But so you got to look at it, this is a whole 'nother world. If you're not in the Cloud, you're basically on horse and buggy. So yeah, you're not going to have to buy hay. You don't have to deal with horses and clean up all the horse crap on the street. I mean all of that goes away. So IT, buying IT, is like horse and buggy. Cloud is like the sports car. And the question is 'Do I need air-conditioning?' 'Do I need power windows?' This is a whole new view. And people just want to get the job done. So this is about business. Future work. Making money. >> So-- >> And technology is going to facilitate that. So I think the Cloud game is going to get different very fast. >> Well I want to pick up on a couple things you said. Software, every company's becoming a software company. Take Andreessen, said 'Software is eating the world' If software's eating the world, data is eating software. So you've got to become a data company, as well as, a software company. And data has to be at the core of your business in order to compete. And data is not at the core of most company's businesses. So how do they close that gap? >> Yeah >> You've talked about the innovation sandwich. Cloud, data, and AI are sort of the cocktail that's going to drive innovation in the future. So if data is not at the core of your company, how are you going to close that AI gap? Well the way you're going to close is you're going to buy AI from companies like Google and Amazon and others. So that's one point. >> Yeah, and if you don't have an innovation sandwich, if you don't have the data, it's a wish sandwich. You wish you had some meat. >> You wish you had it right (Laughing) Wish I had some meat. You know the other thing is, you mentioned Diane Greene in her keynotes said "We provide consistency "with a common core set of primitives" And I asked her about that because it's really different than what Amazon does. So Amazon, if you think about Amazon data pipeline, and we know because were customers. We use DynamoDB, we use S3, we use all these different services in the data pipeline. Well, each of those has a different API. And you got to learn that world. What Google's doing, they're just simplifying that with a common set of primitives. Now, Diane mentioned, she said there's a trade off. It takes us longer to get to market if-- >> Yeah, but the problem is, here's the problem. Multicloud is a real dynamic. So even though they have a common set of primitives, if you go to Azure or AWS you still have different primitives over there. So the world of Multicloud isn't as simple as saying 'moving workloads' yet. So although you're startin' to see good signs within Google to say 'Oh, that's on prim, that's in the Cloud' 'Okay that's hybrid' within Google. The question is when I don't have to hire an IT staff to manage my deployments on Azure or my deployments on AWS. That's a whole different world. You still got to learn skill sets on those other-- >> That's true >> On other Clouds >> But as your pipeline, as your data pipeline grows and gets more and more complex, you've got to have skill sets that grow. And that's fine. But then it's really hard to predict where I should put data sometimes and what. Until you get the bill at the end of the month and you go "Oh I should've put that in S3 instead of Aurora" Or whatever it is. And so Google is trying to simplify that and solve that problem. Just a different philosophy. Stu Miniman asked Andy Jassy about this, and his answer on theCUBE was 'Look we want to have fine grain control over those primitives in case the market changes. We can make the change and it doesn't affect all the other APIs we have' So that was the trade off that they made. Number one. Number two is that we can get to market faster. And Diane admitted it slows us down but it simplifies things. Different philosophy. Which comes back to differentiation. If you're going to win in the enterprise you have to believe. I get the sense that these guys believe. >> Well and I think there's a belief but as an architectural decision, Amazon and Google are completely different animals. If you look at Amazon and you look at some of the decisions they make. Their client base is significantly larger. They've been in business longer. The sets of services they have dwarf Google. Google is like on the bar chart Andy Jassy puts up, it's like here, and then everyone else is down here, and Google's down here. >> Yeah and the customer references, I mean, it's just off the charts >> So Google is doing, they're picking their spots to compete in. But they're doing it in a very smart engineering way. They can bring out the big guns. And this is what I would do. I love this strategy. You got hardened large scale technology that's been used internally and you're not trying to peddle that to customers. You're tweaking it and making it consumable. Bigtable, BigQuery, Spanner. This is tech. Kubernetes. This is Google essentially being smart. Consuming the tech is not necessarily shoving it down someone's throat. Amazon, on the other hand, has more of a composability side. And some people will use some services on Amazon and not others. I wouldn't judge that right now. It's too early to tell. But these are philosophy decisions. We'll see how the bet pans out. That's a little bit longer term. >> I want to ask you about the Cisco deal. It seems like a match made in heaven. And I want to talk specifically about some of the enterprise guys, particularly Dell, Cisco, and HPE. So you got Dell, with VMware, in bed with Amazon in a big way. We were just down at DC last month, we heard all about that. And we're going to hear more about it this fall at re:Invent. Cisco today does a deal with Google. Perfect match, right? Cisco needs a cloud, Google needs an enterprise partner. Boom. Where's that leave HP? HP's got no cloud. All right, and are they trying to align? I guess Azure, right? >> Google's ascension-- >> Is that where they go? They fall to Azure? >> Well that's what habit is. That's the relationship. The Wintel. >> Right >> But back up with HP for a second. The ascension of Google Cloud into the upper echelon of players will hurt a few people. One of them's obviously Oracle, right? And they've mentioned Oracle and the Cloud Spanner thing. So I think Oracle will be flat-footed by, if Google Cloud continues the ascension. HPE has to rethink, and they kind of look bad on this, because they should be partnering with Google Cloud because they have no Cloud themselves. And the same with Dell. If I'm Dell and HP, I got to get out of the ITOps decimation that's coming. Because IT operations and the manageability piece is going to absolutely be decimated in the next five years. If you're in the ITOps business or IT management, ITOM, ITIL, it's going to get crushed. It's going to get absolutely decimated. It's going to get vaporized. The value is going to be shifted to another part of the stack. And if you're not looking at that if your HPE, you could essentially get flat-footed and get crushed. So HP's got to be thinking differently. But what Google and Amazon have, in my opinion, and you could even stretch and say Alibaba if you want a gateway to China, is that what the Wintel relationship of Windows and Intel back in the 80s and 90s that created massive innovations So I see a similar dynamic going on now, where the Cloud players, we call them Cloud native, Amazon and Google for instance, are creating that new dynamic. I didn't mention Microsoft because I don't consider them yet in the formal position to be truly enabling the kind of value that Google and Amazon will value because-- >> Really? Why not? >> Because of the tech. Well and I think Amazon is more, I mean Microsoft is more of a compatibility mode (Talking over each Other) I run Microsoft. I've got a single server. I've got Office. Azure's got good enough, I'm not really looking for 10-X improvement. So I think a lot of Microsoft's success is just holding the line. And the growth and the stock has been a function of the operating model of Cloud. And we'll see what they do at their show. But I think Microsoft has got to up their game a bit. Now they're not mailing it in. They're doing a good job. But I just think that Google and Amazon are stronger Cloud native players straight up on paper, right? And if you look up their capability. So the HPEs and the Ecosystems have to figure out who's the new partner that's going to make the market. And rising tide will float all boats. So to me, if I am at HP I'm thinking to myself "Okay, I got to manage services. "I better get out in front of the next wave "or I'm driftwood" >> Well Oracle is an interesting case too. You mentioned Oracle. And somebody said to me today 'Oracle they're really hurting' And I'm like most companies would love to be hurting that badly but-- >> Oracles not hurting >> Their strategy of same-same but it's the same Oracle stack brought into the Cloud. They're sending a message to the customers 'Look you don't have to go to another Cloud. 'We've got you covered. We're investing in R&D', which they do by the way. But it was really interesting to hear from the Cloud Spanner customer today that they got a 10-X value, 10-X reduction in costs, and a 10-X capability of scaling relative to Oracle that was powerful to hear that. >> There's no doubt in my mind. Oracle's not hurting. Oracle's got thousands and thousands of customers that do hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. And categories that people would love to have. The question on Oracle is the price pressure is an innovator's dilemma because there's no doubt that Oracle could just snap a few fingers and replicate the kind of deliverables that people are offering. The question is can they get the premium that they're used to getting. One. Number two, if everyone's a software company, are they truly delivering the value that's expected. To be a software company, to be competitive, not to make the lights run-- >> To enable >> To enable competitive-- (Talking over each other) Competitive advantage at a level, that's to me, going to be the real test of how Cloud morphs. And I question that you got to be agile and have a real top line revenue numbers where using technology at a cost benefit ratio that drives value-- >> But with Oracle-- >> If Oracle can get there then that's what we'll see >> The reason why they'll continue to win is because they move at the speed of the CIO. The CIO, and they'll say all the right things: AI-infused, block chain, and machine learning, and all that stuff. And the CIOs will eat it up because it's a safe bet. >> Well, I want to get your thoughts because I talked about this a couple years ago. Last year we started harping on it. We got it more into theCUBE conversation around Cloud being horizontally scalable yet at the top of the stack you've got vertical differentiation. That's great for data. Diane Greene in her key notes said that the vertical focus with engineering resources tied to it it's a key part of their strategy. Highlighted healthcare was their first vertical. Talked about National Institute of Health deal-- >> Retail >> NGOs, financial service, manufacturing, transportation, gaming and media. You got Fortnight on there, a customer in both Clouds. Start ups and retail. >> Yeah he had the target cities >> Vertical strategy is kind of an old enterprise play book TABE. Is that a viable one? Because now with the kind of data, if you got the data sandwich, maybe specialism and verticals can Scale. Your thoughts? >> I'll tell you why it is. I'll tell you why it's viable. Because of digital. So for years, these vertical stacks have been hardened. And the expertise and the business process and the knowledge within that vertical industry, retail, transportation, financial services, etc., has been hardened. But with digital, you're seeing it all over the place. Amazon getting into content. Apple getting into content. Amazon getting into groceries. Google getting into healthcare. So digital allows you to not only disrupt horizontally at the technology layer, but also vertically within industries. I think it's a very powerful disruption agenda. >> Analytics seems to be the killer app. That's the theme here: data. Maybe take it to the next step. That's where the specialism is. That's where the value's created. Why not have vertical specialty? >> No and >> Makes a lot of sense >> And it's a different spin. It's not the traditional-- >> Stack >> Sort of hire a bunch of people with that knowledge in that stack. No, it's really innovate and change the game and change the business model. I love it. >> That was a great surprise to me. Dave, great kicking off day one here this morning. Ending day one here with this wrap up. We got three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Go to siliconANGLE.com. We've got a great Cloud special Rob Hof, veteran chief of the team. Mark Albertson, and the rest of the crew, put some great stories together. Go to theCUBE.net and check out the video coverage there. That's where we're going to be live. And of course WIKIBAN.com for the analyst coverage from Peter Burris and his team. Check that out. Of course theCUBE here. Day one. Thanks for watching. See you tomorrow

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next, 2018. Brought to you by Google Cloud, and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi this is Peter Burris from Wikibon SiliconANGLE, stepping in for John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Continuing our CUBE coverage here at Google Next 2018 from Moscone South, an impressive array of talent, and that includes my next guest, Jon Thomas. Jon is the director of Product Management for Digital Services Management Cloud Services at BMC Software. Welcome to theCUBE, Jon. >> Thank you for having me. >> You know this is a really an interesting topic for me, because as an old infrastructure hack, someone who's been in IT operations in a couple different worlds, as well as being an Industry Analyst in infrastructure, it's important that we not lose sight of the fact that there's a lot of expertise out there regarding how we run complex systems, that the Cloud companies are demonstrating, but the business as an adopt Cloud services, nonetheless, has to sustain. So talk to us a little bit about what BMC is doing to try to bring some of that knowledge over 30 years of working in the data center, and apply it for businesses as they become better Cloud citizens. >> Yeah, thank you for asking. So, BMC is worked with some of the largest IT organizations. In fact, over 80% of the Fortune 500 use BMC software to help them manage IT. At this point when I go out and talk to those customers, they're all on a Cloud journey. And the really exciting thing is that the conversations stop becoming if we're going to use public cloud, but it's going to be a how to use public cloud, and really at this point, it's about how do we use it in a way that we can scale that out, scale that innovation out within the organization. And we're seeing that those organizations are actually, in a lot of times, they're reorganizing in order to really facilitate that innovation. And so BMC, like you said, is taking that expertise that we've had and helping them manage the data center asset, and to apply the same learnings that we had with a new spin to actually work with the public cloud as they start to adopt public cloud. >> So, give us an example of a few of the more modern approaches in the cloud that are being employed by BMC to ensure that you get the type of control, manageability, and automation, that BMC customers have gotten used to on-premise. >> Yeah, I mean, one great example is for a very long time BMC has had the BladeLogic Product Line, and we've helped customers to make sure that they can harden their servers and their network devices and their databases on premise. Now as they move the public cloud, there's a big question, what does it mean to even harden a public cloud configuration? And a lot of organizations are trying to understand what is their responsibility in that shared responsibility model. And so one thing that we've done is take that knowledge about hardening assets and apply it to public cloud resources, and also just in the way that we do it. You know if you think about traditionally, IT's gotten a bad rap as being Captain No, and now with the public cloud and the ability of application teams that go directly to the public cloud, IT has to just change the way that it's providing its services to their consumers, their internal consumers. So, now instead of putting a big block in the process, instead we're enabling IT to provide services. Because application teams, they don't want to be insecure. They're not out there nefariously trying to break things and leave data out there. >> They may sometimes not know when they're not being secure. >> Exactly, and so IT's new and changing role is about how do you provide services and consultation to your business to be a facilitator. And so with the products that we're offering now, we think we've taken that history, and that legacy, and our heritage, and hardening in that data center, and then applying that same model to the public cloud, but in a model that fits for how you leverage public cloud resources. >> I presume that a customer that decides to go with, say, Google or Google Cloud-- >> Yeah. >> Or decides to go with Amazon or AWS, is going to use your product and exploit the best or the capabilities of both clouds. as they are uniquely provided, is that accurate? >> Absolutely. Yeah when we talk to our customers, very few of them have the luxury of only using one public cloud vendor. Whether it's based off of decisions from application teams or even acquisitions, a lot of times they have to manage across multiple clouds on top of all of that on-premise infrastructure that they still have to manage. And so we do, we try to help to simplify that complexity for them by bringing it all together into one visibility, into what is the state of the risk of their cloud services. >> But to employ, or to be able to exploit the best that each of those platforms has, while at the same time from an overall manageability standpoint, being able to provide a common view to those different resources, have I got that right? >> Exactly, exactly. >> Now, how does that tie back in to the data center? One of the things that we've seen over the course of the last week is something that Wikibon has been calling it your private cloud. The idea that there are going to be circumstances when an enterprise's data requires that you move the cloud to the data, as opposed to moving the data to the cloud. >> Yeah. >> And there's no doubt there's going to be a lot of data that's going to, for any number of physical, legal, election property control reasons, will be on-premise, or within the confines of the business. So, how do you envision that the practices and tooling and automation regimes that are currently on-premise, and what we're doing now on the cloud are going to start together, come together over the next few years. So we can put data where it naturally should be. >> Yeah, I'm glad you asked that. It's just, some of the tools and some of the reasons that we're able to help our customers on their cloud journey is because we have that knowledge of their on-premise infrastructure. So being able to do things like discover what they have on-prem, and understand the dependencies, helps us to be really uniquely positioned to help them with cloud migration. And migration might not be just from on-premise to cloud, it could be from cloud back to on-premise, it could be between clouds or even between different regions based off of the need of the business at that time. >> So that's migration, what about overall classes of integration that might allow a DevOps person, for example, to be able to look at an application that spans multiple places, or multiple locations, but still be able to administrate as a coherent resource? >> Yeah, so in that same discovery capabilities that we have, we've extended those out to the public cloud as well, so we can discover on-premise, in the public cloud, so that whenever you need it, you can go to a single place and understand what's the state of your infrastructure, no matter where it exists. >> So what do you think of Google Next? Are you having good conversations with customers? Do you see Google Cloud coming on more? And how does BMC going to make it easier for everybody? >> Absolutely, we're really excited by the progress that Google Cloud is making and we're seeing a lot of adoption in particular certain segments of our businesses are really, really fond of Google Cloud. And what we're doing is trying to make sure that from the tools that we have that we're integrating into Google Cloud, so that it gives our customers that choice to pick what's the right cloud for them at the right time and for the right circumstances, and then still get that simplification by putting it all into the same tool where they can get in the single view. >> Now every company has a challenge as they migrate to the cloud, both from a standpoint of where the applications are being developed, where the applications are being run. But also, strategically, the cloud has a pretty significant impact. BMC seems to be one of those companies that's able to partly, I would presume in large measure, because of 30 years of really working with the customers is having a relatively facile time enacting that transformation. Give us a sense, especially in the Product Management Committee, thinking about how BMC's going to provide value in the cloud. What is BMC think the future of cloud and cloud management looks like? >> Well, we see it's evolving. Right now a lot of organizations are creating centralized Cloud Centers of Excellence just to figure out how, like I said, to scale out best practices within their organization. And right now, those teams really have a couple of areas of focus. Number one is the migration, so figuring out how to do their migration projects. Number two is how do we do security of those resources, so being able to understand what's their risk posture, and set up some governance around that, we say a cloud with guard rails. And the last thing is last year was really a time of customers coming to us because they had 10 ex-million dollar surprise builds. And so one of the things that we want to do to help facilitate the use of public cloud, because we believe that it can be as safe or safer, as efficient or more efficient, is to take away those concerns that would keep a company from feeling like they're able to migrate more workloads to the cloud, or build more applications to the cloud. >> So, Jon, I'm going to do kind of a lightning round here. >> Alright. >> I'm going to put something in front of you and I want you to respond as best as you can from a standpoint of how the value proposition's going to play out. Let's start with speed to value. How does the tooling that you're providing improve speed to value, especially to those companies that are looking for greater flexibility than strategies? >> Well, speed to value, one of the biggest things is in order to have real data up in the public cloud, organizations just need to understand what is their risk posture, make sure that those services that they're creating are hardened. And so with our true side cloud security product, we're able to give them that visibility so that they can get the check mark to move quickly to go to market with the solutions they're creating in the public cloud. >> The second thing, modern application development, containers, Kubernetes, those types of things. >> Yeah, absolutely. In the same platform that we support the public cloud, it's really all new modern innovations. So we also support Kubernetes, and Docker as well, so you bring that all into the same platform and the same visibility. >> Big data, advanced analytics, and AI. >> So as companies want to leverage AI, that's one of the examples where they're trying to figure out as they do it, what are their costs going to do? New services, we've heard stories where people turn on a brand new service and then find out that that service costs them a lot of money. And so with some of our expense management for a cloud tools, we're able to do baselines of their spending and start to forecast out, identify when you have something that is going to come and surprise you later on. >> Can't talk about cloud without talking security. >> Absolutely. Yeah, so through true side cloud security, we're helping organizations to not only identify where they might have a risky configurations that might leave them open to data breaches, but also built in automated remediation so that you can take action, and to bring yourself to a very safe place. >> One of the big challenges of the cloud on a global basis is privacy, trust, local. How does GDPR fit into this mix, for example? >> Well, one of the requirements that GDPR is really to have state of the art, that's what they say. And so you have to have state of the art controls in place. So with our solution, especially just like cloud security, that allows organizations to be able to not only have state of the art prosthesis in place and tools to access their risk, but to also prove it. And I think that's a big aspect. >> IoT. >> IoT is also something that's coming up a lot in our customer base, so being able to manage those same cloud resources in terms of the cost of the resources and the security as well. >> Serverless? >> Yeah, Serverless. In fact, internally when we developed our application, we used a lot of Serverless. So we love cloud native artifacts, we believe that they really can help application teams to develop applications quicker. And so one of the things that we provide is the ability to look at hardening of applications built on cloud native resources. >> Now you've already mentioned cost, but what's it cost to? How do you use the tooling to get the most out of your expenditures in the cloud? >> So, first off we give you the visibility in to what you're spending, and then run that through machine learning to search and do forecasting to help you identify when you're going to overrun your cost, but the second part of that is to actually look at optimization. So we're examining out your accounts to understand, do you have idle VM's that are out there? Do you have ones that were over revision? Different ways that we can help bring down your cost to make it sure that your maximizing your cost in the public cloud. >> Okay, so, the next two years at BMC, going to continue to drive its affinity with these new cloud-based workloads. What are you most excited about as you look out at working with customers over the next couple of years? >> Really looking at the adoption going bigger. And, right now, and they talked about it in The Keynote this morning, the number of workloads in the public cloud, it is still relatively small to what they have on-premise. And so we believe that as organizations start to do hardware refreshes, starts to do data center consolidation projects, they're going to start looking into public cloud more and more, and we're going to see more and more resources making their way to the public cloud, and we find that very exciting. >> A wide opportunity for thought leadership, isn't there Jon? >> Absolutely. >> Alright, Jon Thomas, who's been crucial to driving a lot of the product management efforts around some of BMC's cloud management software. Thanks very much for being on theCUBE, Jon. >> Thanks for having me. >> Okay, we'll be right back with more coverage from Google Next, thanks for watching.

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next 2018. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone and welcome back it's theCUBE coverage live in San Francisco at Moscone South for Google Cloud Next 18, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, next guest is Jennifer Lin, Director of Product Management, Google Cloud featured in Forbes as one of the power women at Google Cloud. Congratulations on your Forbes distinction. >> Thanks so much John. >> Great to see you. So we had a chat before the event, couple weeks ago leading up to it around Istio, Kubernetes. You're in charge of a lot of the cool, I would say the modern middleware. >> Yes. >> That's going on. I want to say middleware kind of in quotes, it's not really middleware, it's cloud, it's horizontally scalable. Take a minute to explain some of the areas you're working on and then the importance of Istio's announcement today that 1.0 generally available, huge news, it's kind of nuanced it's not as big as the cloud sources platform and some of the Cisco relationships, but huge progress. >> Yes. >> In this services, microservices, this is the key part. Take a minute to explain. >> Yeah, we're really excited to get to this week and I think the announcement of the cloud services platform of which, obviously, the evolution of Kubernetes and Istio are a key part. Now we've kind of changed the way people manage container environments, and now people are really writing really innovative services and microservices and the ability to manage that easily is really what Istio's all about. And do that in a secure way. >> So we had the CEO Sundar Pichai on the stage, of Google proper, as Diane Greene was also on stage. Sundar made the comment, this is the only event I could make a containers and Kubernetes joke. >> Yes, with the big containers. >> Translate, he's smart, he knows tech. Very strong tech culture here. Jennifer, explain to the people why Google Cloud is differentiating around APIs and services and open source. Why is that so important? >> At heart I think we really are a software innovation company, and Google is a company of developers that want to do creative things with software. As Diane said this morning, I think the, sort of, ability to do that in a way that hides the complexity, but also excites emerging developers with all the things that they can do, I think that's what we're seeing in cloud. Originally we started very much with the cloud natives who were doing very new types of consumer applications. As Sundar said, when we moved into doing business applications and more and more people were developing enterprise applications with a cloud native model, we started to see a big uptake and adoption of our cloud platform. And I think with a lot of the things we're doing in security and the ability to enable administrators to kind of, manage that in a more automated way, that's a lot of what I think we're differentiating around. >> So one of the headlines that I can see happening on these on SiliconANGLE or TechCrunch or some of the blogs and publications out there is Google Doubles Down on Kubernetes. >> Yes. >> And the announcement of Istio's general availability of 1.0 certainly is good news, what does that mean? What should people know about the importance of Kubernetes doubling down as a momentum point for Google and the importance of Istio? What is the real benefit to the customer? >> We've had a managed Kubernetes environment on GCP for four years now, but before that, Urs talked about a decade worth of understanding how to scale Kubernetes in an operational environment. So we've learned a lot of domain knowledge there that we're kind of baking into the software platform itself. Istio really models the way we do microservice management, as we launch billions of containers a week. So how do we essentially secure the service environment? How do we give really good visibility? We showed the service graph where we can see the latency between two services, and really hide a lot of the back end complexity that really, from an operational perspective, is causing a lot of toil for application developers as well as operators. >> I notice toil is a word that's being kicked around the Google community a lot, toil being headaches, pains, but I wanted you to take a minute to explain for the folks that are learning about Kubernetes for the first time. Kubernetes was donated, or donated by an open source but by Google, but prior to Kubernetes, you guys have been running Borg, which is the internal system. >> That's right. >> That's been the foundation of the scale of the service management for all of Google. >> That's right. >> Explain that important history there, and how you're making Kubernetes easy to consume because most companies aren't Google. >> Yes. >> Explain the little history and then how it translates to consumption. >> I think Borg was really built and designed to keep developer agility up and make sure that developers could be very productive, but we could run essentially at global scale the container orchestration environment. When Kubernetes was donated to the open source community, there were some things that needed to be defined, such that the abstractions could be very clean outside of a Google environment. But that framework, obviously, held up very well and hence the growth with Kubernetes. Istio, I think similarly, models a lot of the way that we've done service management with the service mesh within Google. Obviously the names are slightly different, but there's a lot of operational domain knowledge on best practices and how to essentially enable automation at a much more granular level of applications. Where it's not a bunch of proprietary applications, but you have a lot of loosely coupled systems coming together. >> So, Jennifer, the maturity curve of the developer community, obviously is in some bell shape. >> Yes. >> How does Google approach engaging with those developers? Are you trying to get leading edge guys that want to develop software the way Google develops software? Obviously you're trying to reach a bigger market, so how do you balance those two? >> I think that's where open source is the most exciting, 'cause whether it's kids in school or very experienced developers, number one the transparency, things move so fast, a lot of that is about developer reach. But also about the participation of developers to give back to the community and help evolve the system. For something like Kubernetes, obviously, and Istio, Google sort of bootstrapped that and donated it to the community, but since then, we've seen just incredible participation at things like Kubecon, and developer hackathons, et cetera. So that's both a model for growing the community, but also just to educate and share, essentially, a lot of the best practices in a different type of way than most software companies, I think. >> Well, and you've worked at a lot of very successful enterprise companies, some very profitable enterprise companies. I get the sense that profit is an outcome of doing good work at Google. >> Yeah. >> You don't wake up in the morning and say okay, how am I going to make money? >> Yeah. >> You say, how am I going to do work and you don't seem to be stressing. I guess it helps that you have $100 billion in the balance sheet. But is that the right way to think about how you guys think about the marketplace? >> Yeah, I think the goal is very clear for us and I know Sundar talked about it a lot, the alignment between our original mission at Google and the opportunity we see in Cloud. Data is exploding, new applications are being written in a way that really brings together worlds that didn't come together before. Healthcare applications where you need to share a lot of data, people need to do research, and you need to make it very easy to share, but at the same time it needs to be highly secure. We're under the same pressures as any other enterprise in terms of regulatory environments, et cetera, so making all of that easy, I think is the reason why open source and open ecosystems make a lot of sense to us. It's just the only way to move fast, and actually make sure that we're bringing the whole community with us. >> But not everybody takes that philosophy, obviously. It's one that you're attuned to. But when you think about Google's posture in this community, I mean you started kind of late to the enterprise game, don't seem to be too stressed about it, you're developing the ecosystem. We've seen in this world, some of the companies you work with, it's winner take all. >> Yeah. >> Is Cloud just so big that there's plenty of room for everybody? Or is it winner take all in different segments? How do you think about that? >> Our leadership, to Diane, basically really sees this as we're playing the long game. And it is about driving adoption more so than essentially quarter to quarter revenue. When we're reinventing how software is designed and delivered, and published, et cetera, and shared? I think it is not going to be the monetization per quarter, which, many of the companies, I think, have to be under the pressure for. Within Google, I think we really do see this as the future of software, and that's going to take some time, but yeah. Urs talked a lot about spend has gone up in many enterprise environments despite the fact that they are changing their environment. Automation is a way to bring down a lot of the cost, so we believe there's a lot of value to be captured there, but we're not in a race to essentially monetize every piece of every product we put out there. >> So how do you measure your success? Is it just a feeling that, yeah we're doing good work? Or adoption, or? >> Adoption and the happiness of our customers and the lead partners that we work with. Our leadership is very focused on that. We want to prove it out with some trusted partners and customers, and I think some of those were on stage today. Make sure that it's replicable, and make sure that we leave our options open. 'Cause you never know what's going to happen in the next year. >> I got to ask you about the on-prem solution that was demoed today >> Yup. >> Actually they put a little easter egg in the demo and then came back and said, oh by the way, that node was on-premise. >> Yep. >> And Cloud. One of the things we talked about, and you've been harping on this, about Kubernetes orchestrating an abstraction at higher levels of services. >> Yes. >> Both in the cloud and on-premise. >> Yes. >> It's happening now, that was really elegant. Is that a demo? Is that actually shipping code? How far along are you? >> Yeah. >> Where's the head room in this? Explain this important phenomenon, because this is multi-cloud, and I've been really negative on multi-cloud, until we see things like this. This is easy to understand. >> Yeah. >> Your thoughts? >> Now that you really have workload portability and a common abstraction layer, and a single point of administrative control, there's a lot you can do there. And that was really hard to do, I think, with the proprietary systems. That wasn't just a demo, a lot of customers are starting to see that they have to think about hybrid and multi-cloud in a different way. And using some of these innovative technologies with containerization, you don't have to worry about the kernel version and the OS and a lot of the toil that was in the system before. So yeah, I think we're coming at hybrid cloud and multi-cloud in a way that no other cloud provider is, and that was, I think, the start of what a lot of customers have waited for. >> Yeah, and certainly this is the benefit of a Kubernetes and Istio now has got some capabilities into it, policy and that's still going to evolve. The question I want to put to you, and I'll play the devil's advocate role. Shouldn't the multi-cloud be an independent group? Or if I'm going to say, "Okay Google, I'm nervous, you're going to do all this stuff." There's a trust there, how do you guys answer the naysayers who might say it should be an independent organization handling multi-cloud. What's the answer to that? >> I think that's why a lot of the partners that we worked on initially with something like Istio, IBM and Lyft, they also didn't want to be locked into any one cloud provider. And we've done some things in the marketplace where we believe that the future is hybrid and multi-cloud. I think from a technology perspective, just making sure that essentially we can define those interfaces in a way that's not tied to a vendor implementation, be transparent. We have in Istio things like partner mixer adapters, that ecosystem is growing very quickly, so that pluggable adapter model allows the whole ecosystem to participate. >> And the role of open source in all this, obviously STO, we were at the Linux Foundation's CNCF covering this pretty heavily in Denmark just recently, we've spoken about it. How does all the action happening here at Google Next impact open source? What's going upstream, what are some of the updates, can you share what's going on in open source with Google? >> Istio 1.0 is essentially an announcement about the open source effort. I think we also saw that many of our enterprise customers want a managed environment. So just like Kubernetes, we have the open source Kubernetes which is rockin' and rollin' along, we have our managed Kubernetes commercial offer. Now that there's a level of maturity in the managed Kubernetes environment, and people are excited that Istio 1.0 is getting more mature, they want that to be a part of the evolution of their managed Kubernetes environment. Which is why we're starting to see just the whole stack evolve. First we abstracted the infrastructure, now we can manage services, and then we can bring in a whole new type of ecosystem. So, it's very exciting. >> So here's a philosophical question for you, Dave and I always like to talk about old new way. So old IT is like horse and carriage, and buggy, and cloud is like the first car, now you got sports car. How do you explain all the under the hood examples of the engine? >> Yeah. >> The car just drives. You don't have to feed the horses the hay, what's the new benefits that the old world won't see with clarity? Can you tease out, from your perspective, what are some of those things that go away and say, wow, we used to do that? What are some of the things? >> I think, even within how we build our products, we're very focused on user experience. And sometimes the user is a developer, sometimes the user is an administrator, and sometimes the user is the end user, in our case, maybe the customer's customer. So we do a lot of UX research, but like you said, there's a lot of complexity in a car, but when I drive a car, I just want to drive the car. So the user experience for the driver is very different from the mechanic who's fixing the engine. There's no doubt that there is a lot of complexity in these large-scale, global distributed systems, but many of our enterprise customers don't want to know every little bit of how it's built. What they want to know is some declarative end-state of what they want to get to. The functions that they want or application that they're trying to drive. That is the maturity level that we're at, where Istio hides a lot of that complexity, provides a common service abstraction, but still gives essentially the administrators the things that they need out of the system. >> Well and it speaks to as well, and you guys talked about this in your interview, how software's being developed and how that's changing. When I deal with Spotify, if I have a problem, I don't call up. >> No. >> Their billing department, or their customer service department, I just do it. >> Yes. >> And that's the way software is going to be developed in the future. >> Yes. >> Versus the way most enterprise. >> And you talk about a great customer of GCP, Spotify, I use them everyday as well, but yeah, that is a lot about user experience. But what they've done with machine learning, to basically serve up the song that I want to hear that day, based on the playlists I had before, it really is changing how software is done. >> So if you look at some of these old metaphors like horses versus cars, you mentioned that. Jobs get automated away with that old model, but yet there's new jobs are created. >> Yes. >> So I want you to talk about what's going away and what's evolving. 'Cause the value is shifting up the stack with higher level sets of services and new abstractions. >> Yup. >> Which you don't need to know all the details, just magic happens for the customer. There's new value being created. >> Yup. >> You could almost look at the market and say, IT operations, decimated. Manual configuration, decimated. >> Yes, well. I mean that's the history. >> That's my words. >> Of technology. The history of technology is moving forward and automating things. For Google, obviously, we don't think of the software layer as just the infrastructure layer. A lot of what we're trying to get to is essentially with things like machine learning and analytics, and that's real business value that people really had too much toil to essentially stitch the systems together. >> Yes. >> Now as the platform evolves, I think it just becomes one stack. And we can put those tools into-- >> Is there an API administrator? 'Cause you start to see people starting wiring services together. >> Yep. >> Between building blocks. >> Yes. >> So almost the cloud model. Right? >> Yep. >> So is that a API administrator? Is it code? >> You know-- >> There's still a human component. We agree. >> Yes, yes. >> But what is that new role? >> I think we've always had the notion of API management, with cloud endpoints and our apogee acquisition. APIs are evolving with microservices, and a lot of the partners that essentially have been in that space are all re-basing on something like Istio where they can do service management at a higher level. The API is part of it. Within Google, we use things like protobufs, where you have structured data and message protocols that essentially are not just an API. We think about API and service management hand in hand. Both of those things I think are changing. >> So my final question for you, I want to get your advice to any of the practitioners out there or customers that really want to take cloud native because with the containers, Kubernetes and Istio, you can actually manage lifecycle of old stuff and still bring in the new. >> Yup. >> You guys do API service management, you got cloud endpoints, billing, commerce, marketplace, Kubernetes serverless, and Istio is kind of a focus group. What's your advice and what's coming next that people should be aware of? For the folks who want to go cloud native, want to put the more gas, less brake, put the pedal to the metal with cloud native and not foreclose or have to do a rip and replace. Manage their existing lifecycle applications and to bring in the new with cloud native. What's your advice? >> I think build for the future, make sure you don't get stuck in a silo. We often see that different pace of customers and the way they're moving to cloud native. Our tagline for this conference was also, we're bringing the cloud to our enterprise customers, they can move at their own pace. We recognize that sometimes the migration challenges are pretty tough with their legacy systems. But they have a much clearer view now, in terms of where software is going, so depending on the steps they want to take, we want to enable that either natively, with what we're doing with CSP, or enabling partners to take phased approach to that end state. >> Awesome, and ultimately the developers for the applications >> Absolutely. >> Will win on this. Jennifer Lin, Director of Product Management at Google Cloud here inside theCUBE, breaking down all the action around APIs, service management, and why it's important as the modern middleware within the cloud, enabling developers. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Back with more live coverage here in San Francisco after this short break. Stay with us. (electronic music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next 2018. Brought to you by Google Cloud and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Google Cloud here at Moscone South, in San Francisco. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, covering all the stop stories here, and day one of three days of coverage with siliconeangle.com, thecube.net for all the great content. Our next guest is Suzanne Frey, director of security, trust, and compliance and privacy at Google Cloud, welcome to theCUBE, thanks for coming in today. >> Thank you so much, it's a pleasure to be here today. >> Don't you love the cube that Google built out here, fits the theme, it's beautiful. >> It is mighty fly, it is awesome. It's so exciting. >> That's great. Great to see Google kind of go the next level. The energy, the people in the company I've talked to, we've been following Diane's career since VMware. I knew she was an investor in Cloud, theCUBE actually started at the Cloud Air office when they got their first round of funding, so really a savvy industry executive. Now two years in the gestation period you can kind of see it. The best of Google being exposed to the world is really kind of a great strategy, we've been commenting on that, but one of things Google has, and has had for a long time is, they've had that really open culture of openness, open source, but trust; "Do no evil's" the slogan and they have all this expertise. >> Yep. >> Is your job to harness that. Take a minute, what is your job? Are you brokering all this greatness? Are you shepherding it? Are you influencing product? What's your role? >> My role, specifically, is to ensure that we make Google Cloud the most trusted place for user data. Now, trust is a multi-faceted thing. I often say that trust starts with making sure that what you expect is what you experience. That's the foundation of it and so my job is first to start there and make sure that everything that we do is in line with the customer's expectations and it's in line with what they experience once they're in the Cloud and that's everything from making sure that we're compliant, that we handle their data responsibly in line with all the rules and regulations around the world which vary greatly. You know all the way through to making sure that we're building exceptional, simple, smart, and secure products every single day across our stack. So that's my job and it's to galvanize that, not just in product and not just in expectations, but also in the people we hire and the culture we engender. >> You know it's interesting, we live in an interesting time right now, and as they say, if you look at the global landscape; from politics, play, to technology, a transformation is happening where security trust, the data, you got GDPR happening in Europe, you got fake news on Facebook, you got users not trusting where's my data, so you have this cultural dynamic, kind of independent of the mission of the big companies where there's an opportunity to use AI for good. There's an opportunity to have a compliance model that's going to maintain that. How does that affect you guys? I'm sure it does in some way, but this is on the minds of people. Surely no one want to be hacked, they want their data to be secure. I want to control my data. I want my data to be leverageable. I want to get utility out of the system, Because it's something bigger with Google Cloud, it's not part of a system. How are you guys talk about that internally? What are some of the conversations that you guys have around this cultural shift? >> It's day one of any new product of feature we develop, those conversations occur. It's part of our process in developing any new product or feature. We have a team, in fact a large portion of my organization is entirely dedicated to reviewing and scrutinizing every single feature, every single new product we bring to bear. Even if a customer wants to build, or I should say, even if an internal developer wants to build a new model, our team is responsible for reviewing that and making sure it's in line with the commitments we have to both legal commitments as well as our customers. So it's part of, and it continues all the way through to the point where I hit the launch button and say, "This is okay to go." >> (laughs) Nice. >> So the way you measure trust is that the expectations match the experience. Now when I look at your scope, we run our business on your scope. G-mail, Inbox, I personally love Inbox, I'm like an Inbox ambassador. >> Fantastic. >> And so thank you for developing that product. Google Drive, Docs, Sheets, you count it, I mean we run our business on your products. And so I wonder sometimes are we doing it right? Some of the challenges we have I think are onboarding and off-boarding folks. When somebody leaves the company or comes on the company you want to give them access to certain sheets or certain documents and then you sort of forget to take them off. How do you handle that? What's best practice there? Are you develop tooling around that? Maybe you could take about that a little bit. >> So we do it in many, many ways. And there certainly are best practices, they are documented out there through a number of tools and papers that we produce. We also have partners that work with our customers that engender those practices, but also then we bake the technology in so that you don't have to think about these things. And a good example would be; we released Team Drives last year. Team Drives is a great example of how you manage documentation for the inbound and outbound employees. It used to be that somebody'd actually have to think, "oh wait, Joe's no longer on this, We need to move him off," And all of that. But with the Team Drive that's handled automatically. Groups is another way. Google Groups is a great way to manage access to information and the like. And then we have tools like IRM, that allow you to sort of manage copying and forwarding information. And there's some more announcements that are coming tomorrow that'll let you also handle some of these things, but I can't talk about them quite yet. So stay tuned. >> You didn't want to release it too early. >> Can you talk about how you go to market with those cause every now and then I'll get a phone call or an e-mail from somebody at Google trying to either introduce me to something, maybe sell something, but it's kind of intermittent. What's the go-to market to inform people? We're obviously a small company. We heard today, "we want to help small, large, start-ups, big companies, governments." How do you guys go to market? >> We do it in lots of different ways. We certainly leverage our communication channels online heavily and we've been ramping up, I mean our investment in marketing and Cloud and getting all of these things, I mean you can see I right here at Next. This is a huge example of how we're trying to get the word out. We're at large across all of our verticals, across all of our customer sets, because I think that is information management and so that you understand, "hey I have these great tools to bear." That's super important for us to get right and we're continuing to evolve it. >> One of the things I always admire about Google from day one, the mission has always been speed. Load the pages faster, find what you're looking for, organize the information. With security and trust now, we were talking before we came on camera, I see Cloud as an opportunity, AI's an opportunity, as Diane Green said, security is the number one worry. Dave's asked this question every year, going back to since 2012, is security a do-over with the Cloud? You guys have such great experience with Sass and Cloud; is it an opportunity for customers going Cloud-native to do security over. Your thoughts? >> Well I think about this, so ill answer this in two ways, for us at Google it's not a do-over, it's been part of our DNA from day one because we were born in the Cloud. From the moment we started to think about how we design a data center to how we design a server to how we retire discs, this was mentioned in the keynote, that's been part of our DNA from day one. So for us we don't believe it's a do-over, we actually believe we're ahead of Darwin in terms of security, well ahead of it. And we'll put our words behind it, that we do believe, bar none, that we are the most secure cloud out there. Certainly customers using G-Suite, Chromebooks, Security Keys, we mentioned that at the keynote this morning as well- zero account hijackings. No one else can make that claim and we're proud to do it. For customers, however, I think many customers are realizing Patch Tuesdays and heterogeneous operating systems and tons of different platforms with customers that are storing information on their hard drives or their thumb drives- its a nightmare for many customers who have been operating on premise for many years and I think they're waking up to realize, "wait a minute, you're going to take care of all of that. You're going to take care of it. One operating system. All managed from the Cloud. One place. My documents are going to sit there. Oh my gosh, I can sleep again if I move to the Cloud." and that's really part of the overall narrative here. >> Just to follow up on that, so that was Chromebook, G Suite, and Two-factor authentication right? >> Yes. >> You called it Titan Security, is that right? >> Yes, Titan Security Keys, correct. >> And the Two-factor authentication comes from what, is it a dongle or- >> It's actually hardware based so if you think about- two-factor's not a new term, two-factor's been around for a long time. A lot of people would have these tokens that would generate a numeric key and you'd look at that and you'd plug it in. Well that's phishable actually, that key gets transmitted when you actually authenticate and that can be picked up. >> Exposed, yeah. >> Exposed. With hardware, its all base of the hardware, there's no key that's exchanged. It's all authenticated to your device and that makes it un-phishable. >> You don't think about it. >> Yeah, exactly. >> So lets talk about compliance for a second. That's part of your job. Honestly we see this year was kind of a- the earthquake, the tectonic plates of GDPR. >> Yes. (laughs) >> Certainly Google's experience, a little fine in the EU of some other areas of your business. Obviously data is a regional thing, obviously in Germany we know what's going on there, so as a customer goes global, you could be in the US, there's now policies that need to be implemented. Is that where softwares going to help? How are you guys talking to your customers and what's the solution that you guys see for compliance and making it seamless because it's a real hassle. >> Yep. >> Some sites and some companies aren't deploying their solution. Their website has been stripped down because they couldn't comply with the GDPR regulation which gives the users the ability to essentially tell you to forget me and all kinds of other things, I don't want to get into it, but the point is, that it puts the pressure on companies, like literally overnight, where it was policy. People in the database world know that data sprawls is a huge problem- people don't even know where the data is. What data base is that on. This is a huge issue. How do you guys talk about that? >> Well first I'll say that compliance is always a shared responsibility between ourselves and our customers. However, those customers who have worked with us, and have been going Cloud-native with us have found that the journey to be much much less friction-full, I will say, or I'd say its more friction-less. Because we are the team that's had to really implement the technical controls around the GDPR. And I want to emphasize, GDPR is incredibly important legislation. We believe it's very important. Two years ago we launched an initiative to be sure we were compliant on time. We're proud to say that we were among the first to announce that compliance in the Cloud. And we're really happy. Our customers have been happy. And our relationships- we take on a large responsibility for maintaining relationships with the legislators and the regulators around the world Many companies can't scale to do that and by going with Google you know you've got a tight and good relationship, a company that is focused on maintaining good relationships world-wide on that front and it's been important. >> So two years before GDPR went into effect, that's much better, most companies were two months before the fines went into effect. (laughs) >> It was roughly about two years, it wasn't quite exactly two years between the time it was announced, but it was close to that. >> But it's not just the technology problem too, which makes it so hard, it's a lot of people and a lot of process. >> Absolutely, yes. >> Shared responsibility as you said just now. >> Yes, and the fact that the data's all in one place of the Cloud, again, makes a huge huge difference with your posture, and your compliance posture for GDPR. >> Susanne, you've been at Google for over a decade, what's motivating you these days, obviously the Cloud market's pretty hot, so that's kind of a nice wave to be on. What's the culture like at Google now? What's the DNA? What's the in- cause Google Cloud's got to spring to their step, we can obviously feel it. We can see the results. But it's just the beginning of this new wave. >> Yep, yep. >> What's exciting you and what's the DNA of Google culture? Google Cloud culture? >> Well Sundar echoed this this morning and I was so happy to hear it. I'm at Google because of the mission. I'm here to manage the world's information, make it universally accessible and useful and secure. (laughs) I will add the "and secure" to my mission. I came because that was so exciting to me. As a kid I never got Encyclopedia's because my father was like, "there going to be out of date." (laughs) He know instantly. >> Data quality number one, he was smart. Data scientist- >> Yes he was, he was. And when Google started to evolve, I was so excited. I'm like, "oh my gosh, look at what's happening to information management in the world." And that's why I'm here and I'm surrounded by other fellow citizens who are so excited about that but also excited about the challenge of keeping information secure. So that's what excites me and to work around so many great data scientists and software engineers and site reliability engineers and customer engineers. Google is about engineering at it's core but we take such a human approach to working with our customers. Understanding how important their information, their productivity in the Cloud is, their security in the Cloud is, and that's what excites me every single day. >> Final question for you; talk about what you're working on. What's your guiding principles for your organization. Where are you guys hiring- obviously you mentioned earlier, which I loved, the expectation is the experience should match; that's a great quote, I think that's important but I would argue that, to add to that complexity, is that expectations that are coming are not yet known. You saying things like "block chain" for instance, that kind of hit a lot of exciting areas around security, decentralization, decentralized applications, token economics. So you're seeing the world starting to get a little bit different where those expectations are not yet seen. So you got to get out in front of that. How are you guys managing that? How are you hiring? What's the vision? >> Sure. So there's sort of three pillars that Prabhakar Raghavan talked about this morning; simple, smart, and secure. Those are kind of our guiding principles for everything we do and, for example, G Suite. How we're thinking about the future, well we're very very lucky that we are always getting low latency signals about what's happening in the world right now. We talk about spam and phishing protection and things like that and we get billions of signals every single day about malicious information or malware, ransomware, those sorts of things. So we have a very low latency view into what's happening at the next minute around the world in that respect. And that gives us a competitive edge in terms of really thinking about what's the next thing that's going to happen. We certainly know that machine learning, whether it's smart compose and smart reply, or it's actually based in security, an anomaly detection. What's an anomaly to one company, is not necessarily an anomaly to another, depends on what business you're in and the like. So investing in machine learning and understanding how to be that security guardian for our customers in an automated fashion, so the people don't have to worry about security, but we've taken care of it for them. That's the holy grail and that's what we're investing in right now. >> Suzanne thank you so much for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate it. We were just talking before we came on, Dave and I, before we went live that if security and some of these complexities can be just services under the wire, like electricity. All cue-ade before we even turn the lights on of computing. That's kind of the goal. (laughs) So we're super early. >> Yes, absolutely. >> That's great. Director of security, trust, compliance, and privacy at Google Cloud's theCUBE. Live coverage, stay with us. This is day one of three days of wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, we'll be right back. >> Thank you. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco. It's theCUBE! Covering RedHat Summit 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat. >> Alright welcome back, this is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Red Hat 2018. I'm John Furrier, the co host of theCUBE with John Troyer, co-founder of TechReckoning Advisory Firm. Next guest is Chris Wright, Vice President and CTO Chief of Technology of his Red Hat. Great to see you again, thanks for joining us today. >> Yeah, great to be here. >> Day one of three days of CUBE coverage, you got, yesterday had sessions over there in Moscone South, yet in classic Red Hat fashion, good vibes, things are rocking. Red Hat's got a spring to their step, making some good calls technically. >> Chris: That's right. >> Kubernetes' one notable, Core OS Acquisition, really interesting range, this gives, I mean I think people are now connecting the dots from the tech side, but also now on the business side, saying "Okay we can see now some, a wider market opportunity for Red Hat". Not just doing it's business with Linux, software, you're talking about a changing modern software architecture, for application developers. I mean, this is a beautiful thing, I mean. >> Chris: It's not just apps but it's the operator, you know, operation side as well, so we've been at it for a long time. We've been doing something that's really similar for quite some time, which is building a platform for applications, independent from the underlying infrastructure, in the Linux days I was X86 hardware, you know, you get this HeteroGenius hardware underneath, and you get a consistent standardized application run time environment on top of Linux. Kubernetes is helping us do that at a distributive level. And it's taken some time for the industry to kind of understand what's going on, and we've been talking about hybrid cloud for years and, you really see it real and happening and it's in action and for us that distributed layer round Kubernetes which just lights up how do you manage distributed applications across complex infrastructure, makes it really real. >> Yeah it's also timing's everything too right? I mean, good timing, that helps, the evolution of the business, you always have these moments and these big waves where you can kind of see clunking going on, people banging against each other and you know, the glue layers developing, and then all of a sudden snaps into place, and then it just scales, right? So you're starting to see that, we've seen this in other ways, TCPIP, Linux itself, and you guys are certainly making that comparison, being Red Hat, but what happens next is usually an amazing growth phase. Again, small little, and move the ball down the field, and then boom, it opens up. As a CTO, you have to look at that 20 mile stair now, what's next? What's that wave coming that you're looking at in the team that you have on Red Hat's side and across your partners? What's the wave next? >> Well there's a lot of activity going on that's beyond what we're building today. And so much of it, first of all, is happening in Open Source. So that itself is awesome. Like we're totally tuned into these environments, it's core to who we are, it's our DNA to be involved in these Open Source communities, and you look across all of the different projects and things like machine learning and blockchain, which are really kind of native Open Source developments, become really relevant in ways that we can change how we build functionality and build business, and build business value in the future. So, those are the things that we look at, what's emerging out of the Open Source communities, what's going to help continue to accelerate developers' ability to quickly build applications? Operations team's ability to really give that broad scale, policy level view of what's going on inside your infrastructure to support those applications, and all the data that we're gathering and needing to sift through and build value from inside the applications, that's very much where we're going. >> Well I think we had a really good example of machine learning used in an everyday enterprise application this morning, they kicked off the keynote, talking about optimizing the schedule and what sessions were in what rooms, you know, using an AI tool right? >> Chris: That's right. >> And so, that's reality as you look at, is that going to be the new reality as you're looking into the future of building in these kind of machine learning opportunities into everyday business applications that, you know, in the yesteryear would've been just some, I don't know, visual basic, or whatever, depending on how far back you look, right? You know, is that really going to be a reality in the enterprise? It seems so. >> It is, absolutely. And so what we're trying to do is build the right platforms, and build the right tools, and then interfaces to those platforms and tools to make it easier and easier for developers to build, you know, what we've been calling "Intelligent Apps", or applications that take advantage of the data, and the insights associated with that data, right in the application. So, the scheduling optimization that you saw this morning in the keynote is a great example of that. Starting with basic rules engine, and augmenting that with machine learning intelligence is one example, and we'll see more and more of that as the sophisticated tools that are coming out of Open Source communities building machine learning platforms, start to specialize and make it easier and easier to do specific machine learning tasks within an application. So you don't have to be a data scientist and an app developer all in one, you know, that's, there's different roles and different responsibilities, and how do we build, develop, life cycle managed models is one question, and how do we take advantage of those models and applications is another question, and we're really looking at that from a Red Hat perspective. >> John F: And the enterprises are always challenged, they always (mumbles), Cloud Native speaks to both now, right? So you got hybrid cloud and now multi-cloud on the horizon, set perfectly up with Open Shift's kind of position in that, kind of the linchpin, but you got, they're still two different worlds. You got the cloud-native born in the cloud, and that's pretty much a restart-up these days, and then you've got legacy apps with container, so the question is, that people are asking is, okay, I get the cloud-native, I see the benefits, I know what the investment is, let's do it upfront, benefits are horizontally scalable, asynchronous, et cetera et cetera, but I got legacy. I want to do micro-servicing, I want to do server-less, do I re-engineer that or just containers, what's the technical view and recommendation from Red Hat when you say, when the CIO says or enterprise says, "Hey I want to go cloud native for over here and new staff, but I got all this old staff, what do I do?". Do I invest more region, or just containerize it, what's the play? >> I think you got to ask kind of always why? Why you're doing something. So, we hear a lot, "Can I containerize it?", often the answer is yes. A different question might be, "What's the value?", and so, a containerized application, whether it's an older application that's stateful or whether it's a newer cloud-native application (mumbles), horizontally scalable, and all the great things, there's value potentially in just the automation around the API's that allow you to lifecycle manage the application. So if the application itself is still continuing to change, we have some great examples with some of our customers, like Keybank, doing what we call the "Fast moving monolith". So it's still a traditional application, but it's containerized and then you build a CICD model around it, and you have automation on how you deliver and deploy production. There's value there, there's also value in your existing system, and maybe building some different services around the legacy system to give you access, API access, to data in that system. So different ways to approach that problem, I don't think there's a one size fits all. >> So Chris, some of this is also a cultural and a process shift. I was impressed this morning, we've already talked with two Red Hat customers, Macquarie and Amadeus, and you know Macquarie was talking about, "Oh yeah we moved 40 applications in a year, you know, onto Open Shift", and it turns out they were already started to be containerized and dockerized and, oh yeah yeah you know, that is standard operating procedure, for that set of companies. There's a long tail of folks who are still dealing with the rest of the stuff we've had to deal, the stack we've had to deal with for years. How is Red Hat, how are you looking at this kind of cultural shift? It's nice that it's real, right? It's not like we're talking about microservices, or some sort of future, you know, Jettison sort of thing, that's going to save us all, it's here today and they're doing it. You know, how are you helping companies get there? >> So we have a practice that we put in place that we call the "Open Innovation Lab". And it's very much an immersive practice to help our customers first get experience building one of these cloud native applications. So we start with a business problem, what are you trying to solve? We take that through a workshop, which is a multi-week workshop, really to build on top of a platform like Open Shift, real code that's really useful for that business, and those engineers that go through that process can then go back to their company and be kind of the change agent for how do we build the internal cultural shift and the appreciation for Agile development methodologies across our organization, starting with some of this practical, tangible and realist. That's one great example of how we can help, and I think part of it is just helping customers understand it isn't just technology, I'm a technologist so there's part of me that feels pain to say that but the practical reality is there's whole organizational shifts, there's mindset and cultural changes that need to happen inside the organization to take advantage of the technology that we put in place to build that optimize. >> John F: And roles are changing too, I'll see the system admin kind of administrative things getting automated way through more operating role. I heard some things last week at CubeCon in Copenhagen, Denmark, and I want to share some quotes and I want to get your reaction. >> Alright. >> This is the hallway, I won't attribute the names but, these were quotes, I need, quote, "I need to get away from VP Engine firewalls. I need user and application layer security with unfishable access, otherwise I'm never safe". Second quote, "Don't confuse lift and shift with running cloud-native global platform. Lot of actors in this system already running seamlessly. Versus say a VM Ware running environment wherein V Center running in a data center is an example of a lift and shift". So the comments are one for (mumbles) cloud, you need to have some sort of security model, and then two, you know we did digital transformation before with VM's, that was a different world, but the new world's not a lift and shift, it's re-architect of a cloud-native global platform. Your reaction to those two things, and what that means to customers as they think about what they're going to look like, as they build that bridge to the future. >> Security peace is critical, so every CIO that we're talking to, it's top of mind, nobody wants to be on the front page of The Wall Street Journal for the wrong reasons. And so understanding, as you build a micro-services software architected application, the components themselves are exposed to services, those services are API's that become potentially part of the attack surface. Thinking of it in terms of VPN's and firewalls, is the kind of traditional way that we manage security at the edge. Hardened at the edge, soft in the middle isn't an acceptable way to build a security policy around applications that are internally exposing parts of their API's to other parts of the application. So, looking at it for me, application use case perspective, which portions of the application need to be able to talk to one another, and it's part of why somebody like Histio are so exciting, because it builds right in to the platform, the notion of mutual authentication between services. So that you know you're talking to a service that you're allowed to talk to. Encryption associated with that, so that you get another level of security for data and motion, and all of that is not looking at what is the VPN or what is the VLAN tag, or what is the encapsulation ID, and thinking layer two, layer three security, it's really application layer, and thinking in terms of that policy, which pieces of the application have to talk to each other, and nobody else can talk to that service unless it's, you know, understood that that's an important part for how the application works. So I think, really agree, and you could even say DevSecOps to me is something that I've come around to. Initially I thought it was a bogus term and I see the value in considering security at every step of build, test and deliver an application. Lift and shift, totally different topic. What does it mean to lift and shift? And I think there's still, some people want to say there's no value in lift and shift, and I don't fully agree, I think there's still value in moving, and modernizing the platform without changing the application, but ultimately the real value does come in re-architecting, and so there's that balance. What can you optimize by moving? And where does that free up resources to invest in that real next generation application re-architecting? >> So Chris, you've talked about machine learning, right? Huge amounts of data, you've just talked about security, we've talked about multi-cloud, to me that says we might have an issue in the future with the data layer. How are people thinking about the data layer, where it lives, on prem, in the cloud, think about GDPR compliance, you know, all that sort of good stuff. You know, how are you and Red Hat, how are you asking people to think about that? >> So, data management is a big question. We build storage tooling, we understand how to put the bytes on disc, and persist, and maintain the storage, it's a different question what are the data services, and what is the data governance, or policy around placement, and I think it's a really interesting part of the ecosystem today. We've been working with some research partners in the Massachusetts Open Cloud and Boston University on a project called "Cloud Dataverse", and it has a whole policy question around data. 'Cause there, scientists want to share data sets, but you have to control and understand who you're sharing your data sets with. So, it's definitely a space that we are interested in, understand, that there's a lot of work to be done there, and GDPR just kind of shines a light right on it and says policy and governance around where data is placed is actually fundamental and important, and I think it's an important part, because you've seen some of the data issues recently in the news, and you know, we got to get a handle on where data goes, and ultimately, I'd love to see a place where I'm in control of how my data is shared with the rest of the world. >> John F: Yeah, certainly the trend. So a final question for you, Open Source absolutely greatness going on, more and more good things are happening in projects, and bigger than ever before, I mean machine learning's a great example, seeing not just code snippets, code bases being you know, TensorFlow jumps out at me (mumbles), what are you doing here this year that's new and different from an Open Source standpoint, but also from a Red Hat standpoint that's notable that people should pay attention to? >> Well, one of the things that we're focused on is that platform layer, how do we enable a machine learning workload to run well on our platform? So it starts actually at the very bottom of the stack, hardware enablement. You got to get GPUs functional, you got to get them accessible to virtual machine based applications, and container based applications, so that's kind of table stakes. Accelerate a machine learning workload to make it usable, and valuable, to an enterprise by reducing the training and interference times for a machine learning model. Some of the next questions are how do we embed that technology in our own products? So you saw Access Insights this morning, talking about how we take machine learning, look at all of the data that we're gathering from the systems that our customers are deploying, and then derive insights from those and then feed those back to our customers so they can optimize the infrastructure that they're building and running and maintaining, and then, you know, the next step is that intelligent application. How do we get that machine learning capability into the hands of the developer, and pair the data scientist with the developers so you build these intelligent applications, taking advantage of all the data that you're gathering as an enterprise, and turning that into value as part of your application development cycle. So those are the areas that we're focused on for machine learning, and you know, some of that is partnering, you know, talking through how do we connect some of these services from Open Shift to the cloud service providers that are building some of these great machine learning tools, so. >> Any new updates on (mumbles) the success of Red Hat just in the past two years? You see the growth, that correlates, that was your (mumbles) Open Shift, and a good calls there, positioned perfectly, analysts, financial analysts are really giving you guys a lot of props on Wall Street, about the potential revenue growth opportunities on the business side, what's it like now at Red Hat? I mean, do you look back and say, "Hey, it was only like three years ago we did this", and I mean, the vibes are good, I mean share some inside commentary on what's happening inside Red Hat. >> It's really exciting. I mean, we've been working on these things for a long time. And, the simplest example I have is the combination of tools like the JBoss Middleware Suite and Linux, well they could run well together and we have a lot of customers that combine those, but when you take it to the next step, and you build containerized services and you distribute those broadly, you got a container platform, you got middleware components, you know, even providing functionality as services, you see how it all comes together and that's just so exciting internally. And at the same time we're growing. And a big part of-- >> John F: Customers are using it. >> Customers are using it, so putting things into production is critical. It's not just exciting technology but it's in production. The other piece is we're growing, and as we grow, we have to maintain the core of who we are. There's some humility that's involved, there's some really core Open Source principles that are involved, and making sure that as we continue to grow, we don't lose sight of who we are, really important thing for our internal culture, so. >> John F: Great community driven, and great job. Chris, thanks for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. Chris Wright, CTO of Red Hat, sharing his insights here on theCUBE. Of course, bringing you all a live action as always here in San Francisco in Moscone West, for Red Hat Summit 2018, we'll be right back. (electronic music) (intense music)

but cute at servicenow knowledge 14 is sponsored by service now here are your hosts Dave vellante and Jeff Creek we're back this is Dave vellante with Jeff Frick we're here live at moscone south and we're covering wall-to-wall this knowledge conference service now transforming IT from a cost center into a value producer services is the the tip of the spear service oriented businesses we're seeing this notion of a single cmdb as a single data model as a very powerful concept and one that the majority of companies don't have today but the ones that are moving in that direction are definitely transforming in a way that is pretty meaningful Brad Powell is here he's the vice president of internal customer technologies that merits a customer of service now Brad welcome back to the queue good thank you it's good to be here so you are speaking at this event right absolutely what's your topic IT evolution so taking IT to the next level okay so before we get it to that tell us a little bit about your company you know you roll what you've been doing you know the last since we last talked sure absolutely well we're actually going through a huge cultural shift inside of merits right now and it's all about the people right IT needs to realize that we're really a service based organization now and so that's really hard for people to grasp right we talk about i.t changing all the time and when IT people here that they think moving from one technology to a new technology this time it's completely different it's all about the people so we're asking the IT people to change and be more like sales people to really sell the services that it's-- offering and that's difficult for them so I'm really driving that inside America's culture from an organization perspective to really get out in front of it and solve real people needs you know we talk about business needs it's really people needs that we need to solve and so that's what I've been up to so what are some of the secrets because we that keeps coming up over and over that is going to change and like it its people and probably love we're getting out of their comfort zones oh absolutely are they reset you know how receptive are they really i think you know you have some people that are receptive some people that aren't but they have to get out of there there there East their comfort right to be able to do this and what it really takes is you got to step back and look at the bigger picture right this is kind of where tools come in IT has always been this kind of working on request working on incidents tracking it in that way those metrics are really are useless to our customers because we are trying to prove our existence by numbers they don't care right they carry solving my problems right so we have to transition them out and that's where you bring tools in because what you're able to do is automate those activities right and anytime that you're freeing up from them that's when you take them out and move them into the business actually sitting with the business to understand and listen to what they're saying so that they can solve those business needs so that's what you have to do and it is very uncomfortable for IT I always think about the old saturday night live skit I don't know if you guys remember it but it had the IT people and they call right and they'd say here can you solve this and you'd say click here do this do this and they move and then they jump out of the way and he'd slam on the keyboard and fix it right that's the old IT that's the old silo die team we don't have that anymore now we need to listen become that sales become brokers of services it's interesting you talk about you know sales itea sales people I had we had one of the guests on Martha hella actually said generally IT people are not great salespeople they undersell mom now now part of the issue is a sales person you want a hot product right we got a hot product that you're really proud of then it's easier mm-hmm to sell so I guess the question is how has your product evolved in the last you know in years and and what have been the drivers so the product how you need to evolve you know when you're started talking about tools is ease of use that is going to be the number one selling for your customers of IT above anything else so if I can give the customer solution like they get it at home you know if they have a problem they google it they look it up they fix it themselves so you need to really take that to the next level and sell that where you bring the people in to get them engaged is they know the back-end technology in order to make that happen and so they get excited about that and then what you need to do is put people in front of them to really sell that to the business I'm talking marketing slicks I'm talking everything that's where you need to do really so you guys are doing collateral yeah we have to be able to sell your IT services I mean that's what it's all about we are transitioning to a service based culture one hundred percent and you know you brought up a good point there are a lot of people that just can't make that transition it doesn't mean that we don't need them anymore what it does mean though is you need to really focus their efforts in a certain area and then put that customer facing sales oriented people out in front of the customers so what was the contribution of service now to this transformation was it you know a little small piece of it was it the you know the other end of the spectrum the reason why was it the key enabler talk about them yeah well when you look at it and this is you know coming back to from a tools discussion is what you want to do is you want to be able to free up that it's-- time right in order to do that you need to automate in order to automate you need tools to automate which is the orchestration pieces and things like that of service now so that is actually enabler for us to free up the time to get in front of the businesses to be able to sell our services so that was a really big step in the right direction the other thing is ticketing systems of the past were just really used to track things right that's not the case anymore you don't just track things with IT ticketing systems now what you want to do is actually use it to sell your service okay so you have to build your catalog you have to build all those services in such a way that's easy to use like an Amazon things like that so that you can really sell those services and that's where the tools come in so it's actually twofold it frees up your IT people's time in order for them to get in front of business and then you need to use it to sell and get out of IT get into facilities management get into HR management all of those different things are huge and really it's like an upsell for IT well Brad that's really interesting because the research that we've done it with you gone so you started with problem management and change management like most service now customers but the research we've done at Wikibon when we asked people about moving to transforming to IT as a service and do you know service catalogs and what the biggest challenges what they tell us is that the hardest part is aligning with the business figuring out what the business needs aligning with those business needs developing those service catalogs in a way that resonates right the business so if I heard you correctly you're saying you started with problem and change management and all the sort of blocking and tackling and then that freed up resources for you guys to actually go and talk to the wallets of that dragon ization that's right you have to automate those activities that you do day in and day out from an incident change perspective and that frees up your staff to actually go sit with the business and listen and learn and that's a skill set that you have to teach your IT people but it's an important skill set because if you can put the eye teeth workforce actually with the business they'll hear the problems that they're facing and start to work through that with them and that's a win-win for everybody so I gotta ask you was culturally how did you achieve this of this transformation was it we was a situation where the the IT staff was sort of clamoring for this did you have to drag them kicking and screaming you know changes is often times not easy sometimes it's it's welcome but but often times it's not so how were you able to affect that that change from a cultural standpoint you know that that's a very good question and it wasn't easy I'll be honest with you it's a very difficult transition because you're changing people you know it's not too little thing like that so what you do is you find those things that motivate those right the real geeks of IT what do they want to do they want to automate they want to build those back-end systems so drive them towards that okay so that that gets them motivated and starting from the cultural shift and besides that you know they want to be innovative they really do if you talk to any IT guy they want to be innovative they want to make a difference it's just guiding them along path and it takes a lot of work to change a culture like that but it's so important and without it your IT organizations just aren't going to make it you know you have those people like your database administrators your system administrators that are set and siloed in their ways that's just the old IT you know though they need to go to cloud providers may be in work because you know they're still there still doing that type of activity but your corporate business now it's going to be service providers and that's how you need to make them change and understand that so a couple of questions so one is how are the business people receiving this new you know almost of pairing it sounds like with with IT folks and then to from the IT perspective what do they think about Amazon what do they think about shadow IT you know are they pissed about it are they happy to have something to combat it are they you know we just can't compete there they're working at a different speed than we are you know I this is one of the things I always talk about in my presentations at maritz is we don't I T in the future doesn't compete we complement and that's where you need to do so if you're putting a lot of your servers in the cloud and an Amazon or Azure build a portal and make it easy for your customers to do it too you're complimenting those services that's where I T needs to go is more of a complementing factor and the business are they liking it absolutely because we're solving real business problems they actually are getting there faster than I T right think about it when you go home you fix your own issues you go to the store it's easy its quick right you are driving the customers of I tier driving this cultural shift IT needs to catch up and get get going in this direction today excellent so let me get one more if I know we're getting light on time but I remember one of the highlights of knowledge 13 was the brad vegas movie where I think you hit every single venue up and down the strip from the from the airport to the Grand Canyon so I'm curious have they taken you out for the streets of San Francisco they have not taken me out for the streets of San Francisco but that was quite a life-changing event I tell you we hit every stop in Vegas you name it we were there and luckily they cut you know they didn't show the whole video they cut sections out that maybe was a little too risky we got to find that video we'll put it up on our playlist because it's certainly a must-see TV that cruise around San Francisco of a lot less interesting oh yeah you never know this is early yeah I Lombard Street whoo I hype 4head listen thanks very much for coming Lee anytime great to see you thank you so much I keep right there everybody would react with our next guest we're live from moscone we're here at servicenow knowledge we'll be right back this is the cube

but cute at servicenow knowledge 14 is sponsored by service now here are your hosts Dave vellante and Jeff trick okay we're back this is Dave vellante with Jeff Frick were here live at moscone south and this is the knowledge 14 conference 6600 people here growing was about 4,000 last year you seen this conference grow and about the same pace as a services service now stop line they're growing at sixty percent plus on pace to do over 600 million in revenue this year on pace to be a billion-dollar company and we have the CFO here Mike Scarpelli cube alum Mike great to see you again thank you so this is amazing I mean Moscone is a great venue of the aria last year's kind of intimate you know and now you're really sort of blowing it out I would expect next year you're going to be in the into the big time of conferences well I got a budget for that Tiffany I'm a budget I know it's going to cost more just like the attendance is going up fifty sixty percent the costs are going up as well too but our partners are really important and our partners offset a lot of those costs will get over eight million in sponsorship revenue to offset that so when we expect next year will see a corresponding increase in the sponsorship revenue as well well it's impressive you have a lot of strong partners particularly the system integrator consultancy types you know we saw I hope it will miss somebody definitely saw sent you there last night we start Ernie young giving a presentation k p.m. ET le is about so cloud sherpas yeah the cloud shippers and so we had them on earlier she have a lot of these facilitators which is a great sign for you and they're realizing okay there's there's money to be made around the ServiceNow ecosystem helping customers implement so that's going to make you really happy no you know one of the things that's really important for us with the system integrators is today they haven't really brought us any deals but they've been very influential in accelerating deals and we think that theme is going to continue and based upon what they're seeing they're able to do in the ServiceNow ecosystem in terms of professional service consulting engagement we think that's going to start to motivate them to now bring us into deals that we were never in before but what they have been able to do as well besides just accelerate is have the deals grow beyond IT and we see that numerous on global 2000 accounts for us and you're not trying to land grab the professional services business that's clear effect when you talk to some of your customers when I've ever last year when your customer scoop is complaining that your your price is real high on the surface of suck which it probably makes you happy because it leaves more room for you for your partners and that's really not a long-term piece of your revenue II think you've said publicly you want to be less than fifteen percent of your business right yes yes we have a little bit of a ongoing debate internally my preference is not to see the professional service organization grow in terms of headcount with the pure implementation people the area that I would like to see it grow is more on the training side unfortunately some of our customers they insist that we are part of the professional service engagement so those are more the ones that we're going to be involved and if a customer is looking for a lower-cost alternative we want to make it fair for our partner so that we're not competing with them so they can come up with a lower price to offer a good quality service is important though that it's not going for the lowest price our partners need to make investment so it can be a quality implementations this is a number of early implementations that were done by partners that were some of our smaller partners where they really didn't meet the the expectations of those customers that we've had to go in and fix some of those engagements so the number one goal for our professional service is to ensure we have happy customers because happy customers renew and buy more which are two of the key drivers for our growth so you keep growing like crazy blew it out last quarter to get a 181 million in Billings revenues up 60-plus percent you're throwing off cash hitting all your metrics of course the stock went down oh there you go not much more you could do but you got to really be pleased with the consistent performance and really predictability it seems of the company yeah no I'm since I've been the CFO company it's going to be coming on three years suit in the summer the one thing that I will say about this business model is it's extremely predictable in terms of the the forecasting and what helps with that is the fact that we have such high renewal rates that really helps because we really since I've been here we've never lost any major accounts I think our renewal rate has been averaging north of ninety-five percent and in terms of our upsells or up sells have been very consistent on average they run about a third of our business every quarter and that was Frank has made comments before too that if we don't sign on another customer we can still grow twenty-five percent per year plus just based upon the upsell business opportunity that we have within our existing installed base of customers that's penetrating accounts deeper more seats more licenses more processes and applications yeah the main grower of our upsells are the main contributor to our upsells within our customers really has been additional seat licenses because many of our customers we still have even fully penetrated IT and as we roll out more applications or make our applications more feature-rich as we talked about as Frank his keynote he talked a little bit today aitee costing we've always had that as an application but that's going to be coming out as a much more feature-rich application it's going to be a lot more usable to some of our customers when that goes live that's going to drive more licenses because many times it's different people with an IT that are the process users behind that and then it's going outside of IT as well with the adoption of people enterprise service management concept that Frank's been talking about that will drive incremental users as well too we do have some additional products such as orchestration discovery with a vast majority of our growth and customers is additional licensing so very consistent performance like I say the stock pull back a little bits interesting you guys worked a Splunk tableau smoking hot stocks of all pullback obviously it's almost like you trade as a groupie even though completely different companies completely different business models you don't compete really at all but so you kind of got to be flattering to be in that yeah obviously but it's I looked at as X this is good in a way this is a healthy you know pull back it's maybe a buying opportunity for people that wanted to get in and there are a lot of folks that I'm sure they're looking at that do you I mean how much attention do you even pay for it i know most CFOs i took a say look we can't control it all we can control is you know what we can control and that's what we focus on but you even look at things like that you order your thoughts on you know and unfortunately there is a little bit of a psychology going on here with some of our employees and they're always asking and my comment to them is the only price that matters is the day you sell and this pullback that we've seen recently this is not uncommon was I expecting it to happen right now you know I don't if I if I could predict those things a lot of different line of business but what I will say history is the best indicator of the future and even a company like salesforce com one of our large investors last week he sent me an email and said you do realize that in the first five years of sales force being a public it had forgot if it was four or five fifty percent pullbacks in the stock price so this this happens it will happen I guarantee it will happen again sometime in the future but not just with us with all the other companies I'd be more concerned if it was we were the only company that traded down and everyone stayed up but we're all trading down we all came back today it's interesting and you kind of burned the shorts last year and they've made some money now but but you know Peter Lynch they don't ever short great companies and it's very hard to too short great companies your timing has to be perfect so and your core business you know like for instance a workday is is fundamentally very profitable or you know it should be right and because you're spending like crazy on sales and marketing you're expanding into into AP you're expanding your total available market and you're still throwing off cash what if you can talk about that a little bit you had said off camera your goal is to really be you know so throw off little cash basically be cash flow breakeven yes yes so you know you can only grow at a certain pace last quarter we added 150 new people into our sales and marketing organization that was the the largest number that we've ever added in one quarter we actually added 273 net new employees in q1 that was the most we've ever added in a quarter and even with all those ads we still had very good positive cash flow so it's pretty hard to add at any faster pace than what we're doing right now and so you know I just I don't see us being cashflow negative anytime in the future right now unless something happened and write it have to be a pretty major catastrophe thing and it's not going to be specific to service now it will be kind of across the board we're all CIOs stop spending and the other thing I learned here I thought maybe I just wasn't paying attention to earlier conference calls but the AP focus a large percentage of the global 2000 is in asia-pacific so you're out nation-building right I won't if he could talk about that sure so in two thousand and from March 31st 2013 till March 31st 2014 we open up in 10 new countries most of those were in asia-pacific there's still more countries we're going to be going into an asia-pacific and why are we going into these countries we're going into these countries because that's where the global 2000 accounts are that is our strategy because we focus on quality of customers not quantity of customers what I mean by quality of quality customers one that can grow over time to be a very large customer and even in 2013 we went into Italy and people said at the time well why are you going into Italy we went to Italy because they have global 2000 have 30-something global 2000 accounts even though the Italian economy wasn't doing well global 2000 customers still spend it's not specific to that country their global we signed to global 2000 counts in Italy last quarter so we have a history of showing that if we go into those countries we will be successful in winning those global 2000 and will continue there are some global 2000 so in geographies where it's going to take some time before we actually have a physical presence such as mainland China we do not have any sales people in mainland China today Russia we did not have any people in Russia today how about Ukraine you know we have no one in Ukraine today good thing about Hitler you get to go visit there that's your country I wanted to talk about the TAM yesterday last year we had I kind of watched it but but I was asking Colombo questions about the team because it was you know very interesting I saw a lot of potential want to try to understand how big it could be you and I talked about you had said its north eight billion of course the the stock took off i think it probably 10 billion from a value standpoint I didn't my own tam of mid year I did a blog post I had it up to 30 billion so I started to understand it was a top down it wasn't a bottom up but you guys are starting to sort of communicate to him a little bit differently you got had the help desk and then beyond that the IT Service Management and then you you've essentially got the operations strike the operations management and even now sort of enterprise and business management so I wonder if you could talk about how you look at the the tam and any attempts that you've made to quantify it sure so there's really four markets we play in that really intersect with one another in the core of our market is the IT Service Management that's kind of our beachhead and how we go into accounts in that market right now when historically when we went public gartner groups of the world they looked at it as a helpdesk replacement market they were saying as a 1.4 to 1.6 billion dollar market what they were missing is there's many other things in that space IT service management such as ppm such as our cmdb such as asset management a lot of these things aren't in your traditional help desk we think based upon the rate at which we've been extracting from the market that somewhere we can afford a six billion dollar market opportunity just IT Service Management and then IT Service Management is a subset of the overall enterprise service management market that Frank has been talking about we talked about in our analyst state we think that is potentially as high as 10x the size of our IT Service Management so that can get you up to say that 40 billion dollar plus and then you as well have the IT operations management space IT Service Management you just have the legacy vendors down there nothing innovative happening down there service relationship a lot of white space a lot of stuff that's being done in email lotus notes microsoft access sharepoint those are the markets were going after there really are no true systems in and that's in that space it's those one-off custom apps IT operations management there is a lot of innovation happening down that in that space it is very crowded with some new vendors as well as the legacy vendors the area that will plan might be the whole 18 billion dollar market at IDC talks about you know it's still early innings but it's at least two billion of that market 24 billion will be going after and then Frank brought up this concept of the whole business analytics as well too we talked about we did our acquisition in mirror 42 in 2013 and the business analytics kind of sits at the top of enterprise service relationship management the market we can go after in there that's a that's a whole market into itself at least as big as the enterprise service management but we're not going after that whole market it's just the business analytics to the extent it relates to enterprise service management so that's at least a couple billion more unfortunately this is what we believe there is no published reports out there and times going to is going to tell it similar to when Salesforce went public no one believed the opportunity in front of it and now look how big that come have a 30 billion dollar plus company valuations are depends on what time of year it is what the markets doing but over the long term you know you can sort of do valuation analysis it in the CFO world is there some kind of thought in terms of the ratio between an organization's tan and it's in its valuation you know I mean these other things raid obviously the leadership etc but but for the top companies there a relationship I personally don't get wrapped up in valuation you know I can't control that I can't control public company multiples the only thing we have control over is running our own business and we're going to stay very focused on running our business and let other we'll take care of the valuation good business you picked a good one yes no I I'm very pleased with this one excellent all right Mike well listen thanks very much for coming on the cube we're up against the clock and I always appreciate you thank you Dave time up alrighty bryce bravely request with our next guest we're live from tony south this is dave vellante with jeff record right back