from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante earnings season has shown a conflicting mix of signals for software companies well virtually all firms are expressing caution over so-called macro headwinds we're talking about ukraine inflation interest rates europe fx headwinds supply chain just overall i.t spend mongodb along with a few other names appeared more sanguine thanks to a beat in the recent quarter and a cautious but upbeat outlook for the near term hello and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis ahead of mongodb world 2022 we drill into mongo's business and what etr survey data tells us in the context of overall demand and the patterns that we're seeing from other software companies and we're seeing some distinctly different results from major firms these days we'll talk more about [ __ ] in this session which beat eps by 30 cents in revenue by more than 18 million dollars salesforce had a great quarter and its diversified portfolio is paying off as seen by the stocks noticeable uptick post earnings uipath which had been really beaten down prior to this quarter it's brought in a new co-ceo and it's business is showing a nice rebound with a small three cent eps beat and a nearly 20 million dollar top line beat crowdstrike is showing strength as well meanwhile managements at microsoft workday and snowflake expressed greater caution about the macroeconomic climate and especially on investors minds his concern about consumption pricing models snowflake in particular which had a small top-line beat cited softness and effects from reduced consumption especially from certain consumer-facing customers which has analysts digging more deeply into the predictability of their models in fact barclays analyst ramo lenchow published an especially thoughtful piece on this topic concluding that [ __ ] was less susceptible to consumption headwinds than for example snowflake essentially for a few reasons one because atlas mongo's cloud managed service which is the consumption model comprises only about 60 percent of mongo's revenue second is the premise that [ __ ] is supporting core operational applications that can't be easily dialed down or turned off and three that snowflake customers it sounds like has a more concentrated customer base and due to that fact there's a preponderance of its revenue is consumption driven and would be more sensitive to swings in these consumption patterns now i'll say this first consumption pricing models are here to stay and the much preferred model for customers is consumption the appeal of consumption is i can actually dial down turn off if i need to and stop spending for a while which happened or at least happened to a certain extent this quarter for certain companies but to the point about [ __ ] supporting core applications i do believe that over time you're going to see the increased emergence of data products that will become core monetization drivers in snowflake along with other data platforms is going to feed those data products and services and become over time maybe less susceptible and less sensitive to these consumption patterns it'll always be there but i think increasingly it's going to be tied to operational revenue last two points here in this slide software evaluations have reverted to their historical mean which is a good thing in our view we've taken some air out of the bubble and returned to more normalized valuations was really predicted and looked forward to look we're still in a lousy market for stocks it's really a bear market for tech the market tends to be at least six months ahead of the economy and often not always but often is a good predictor we've had some tough compares relative to the pandemic days in tech and we'll be watching next quarter very closely because the macro headwinds have now been firmly inserted into the guidance of software companies okay let's have a look at how certain names have performed relative to a software index benchmark so far this year here's a year-to-date chart comparing microsoft salesforce [ __ ] and snowflake to the igv software heavy etf which is shown in the darker blue line which by the way it does not own the ctf does not own snowflake or [ __ ] you can see that these big super caps have fared pretty well whereas [ __ ] and especially snowflake those higher growth companies have been much more negatively impacted year to date from a stock price standpoint now let's move on let's take a financial snapshot of [ __ ] and put it next to snowflake so we can compare these two higher growth names what we've done here in this chart has taken the most recent quarters revenue and multiplied it by 4x to get a revenue run rate and we've parenthetically added a projection for the full year revenue [ __ ] as you see will do north of a billion dollars in revenue while snowflake will begin to approach three billion dollars 2.7 and run right through that that four quarter run rate that they just had last quarter and you can see snowflake is growing faster than [ __ ] at 85 percent this past quarter and we took now these most of these profit of these next profitability ratios off the current quarter with one exception both companies have high gross margins of course you'd expect that but as we've discussed not as high as some traditional software companies in part because of their cloud costs but also you know their maturity or lack thereof both [ __ ] and snowflake because they are in high growth mode have thin operating margins they spend nearly half or more than half of their revenue on growth that's the sg a line mostly the s the sales and marketing is really where they're spending money uh and and they're specialists so they spend a fair amount of their revenue on r d but maybe not as high as you might think but a pretty hefty percentage the free cash flow as a percentage of revenue line we calculated off the full year projections because there was a kind of an anomaly this quarter in the in the snowflake numbers and you can see snowflakes free cash flow uh which again was abnormally high this quarter is going to settle in around 16 this year versus mongo's six percent so strong focus by snowflake on free cash flow and its management snowflake is about four billion dollars in cash and marketable securities on its balance sheet with little or no debt whereas [ __ ] has about two billion dollars on its balance sheet with a little bit of longer term debt and you can see snowflakes market cap is about double that of mongos so you're paying for higher growth with snowflake you're paying for the slootman scarpelli execution engine the expectation there a stronger balance sheet etc but snowflake is well off its roughly 100 billion evaluation which it touched during the peak days of tech during the pandemic and just that as an aside [ __ ] has around 33 000 customers about five times the number of customers snowflake has so a bit of a different customer mix and concentration but both companies in our view have no lack of market in terms of tam okay now let's dig a little deeper into mongo's business and bring in some etr data this colorful chart shows the breakdown of mongo's net score net score is etr's proprietary methodology that measures the percent of customers in the etr survey that are adding the platform new that's the lime green at nine percent existing customers that are spending six percent or more on the platform that's the forest green at 37 spending flat that's the gray at 46 percent decreasing spend that's the pinkish at around 5 and churning that's only 3 that's the bright red for [ __ ] subtract the red from the greens and you net out to a 38 which is a very solid net score figure note this is a survey of 1500 or so organizations and it includes 150 mongodb customers which includes by the way 68 global 2000 customers and they show a spending velocity or a net score of 44 so notably higher among the larger clients and while it's a smaller sample only 27 emea's net score for [ __ ] is 33 now that's down from 60 last quarter note that [ __ ] cited softness in its european business on its earning calls so that aligns to the gtr data okay now let's plot [ __ ] relative to some other data platforms these don't all necessarily compete head to head with [ __ ] but they are in data and database platforms in the etr data set and that's what this chart shows it's an xy graph with net score or as we say spending momentum on the vertical axis and overlap or presence or pervasiveness in the data set on the horizontal axis see that red dotted line there at 40 that indicates an elevated level of spending anything above that is highly elevated we've highlighted [ __ ] in that red box which is very close to that 40 percent line it has a pretty strong presence on the x-axis right there with gcp snowflake as we've reported has come down to earth but still well elevated again that aligns with the earnings releases uh aws and microsoft they have many data platforms especially aws so their plot position reflects their broad portfolio massive size on the x-axis um that's the presence and and very impressive on the vertical axis so despite that size they have strong spending momentum and you can see the pack of others including cockroach small on the verdict on the horizontal but elevated on the vertical couch base is creeping up since its ipo redis maria db which was launched the day that oracle bought sun and and got my sequel and some legacy platforms including the leader in database oracle as well as ibm and teradata's both cloud and on-prem platforms now one interesting side note here is on mongo's earning call it clearly cited the advantages of its increasingly all-in-one approach relative to others that offer a portfolio of bespoke or what we some sometimes call horses for courses databases [ __ ] cited the advantages of its simplicity and lower costs as it adds more and more functionality this is an argument often made by oracle and they often target aws as the company with too many databases and of course [ __ ] makes that argument uh as well but they also make the argument that oracle they don't necessarily call them out but they talk about traditional relational databases of course they're talking about oracle and others they say that's more complex less flexible and less appealing to developers than is [ __ ] now oracle of course would retur we retort saying hey we now support a mongodb api so why go anywhere else we're the most robust and the best for mission critical but this gives credence to the fact that if oracle is trying to capture business by offering a [ __ ] api for example that [ __ ] must be doing something right okay let's look at why they buy [ __ ] here's an etr chart that addresses that question it's it's mongo's feature breadth is the number one reason lower cost or better roi is number two integrations and stack alignment is third and mongo's technology lead is fourth those four kind of stand out with notice on the right hand side security and vision much lower there in the right that doesn't necessarily mean that [ __ ] doesn't have good security and and good vision although it has been cited uh security concerns um and and so we keep an eye on that but look [ __ ] has a document database it's become a viable alternative to traditional relational databases meaning you have much more flexibility over your schema um and in fact you know it's kind of schema-less you can pretty much put anything into a document database uh developers seem to love it generally it's fair to say mongo's architecture would favor consistency over availability because it uses a single master architecture as a primary and you can create secondary nodes in the event of a primary failure but you got to think about that and how to architect availability into the platform and got to consider recovery more carefully now now no schema means it's not a tables and rows structure and you can again shove anything you want into the database but you got to think about how to optimize performance um on queries now [ __ ] has been hard at work evolving the platform from the early days when you go back and look at its roadmap it's been you know started as a document database purely it added graph processing time series it's made search you know much much easier and more fundamental it's added atlas that fully managed cloud database uh service which we said now comprises 60 of its revenue it's you know kubernetes integrations and kind of the modern microservices stack and dozens and dozens and dozens of other features mongo's done a really fine job we think of creating a leading database platform today that is loved by customers loved by developers and is highly functional and next week the cube will be at mongodb world and we'll be looking for some of these items that we're showing here and this this chart this always going to be main focus on developers [ __ ] prides itself on being a developer friendly platform we're going to look for new features especially around security and governance and simplification of configurations and cluster management [ __ ] is likely going to continue to advance its all-in-one appeal and add more capabilities that reduce the need to to spin up bespoke platforms and we would expect enhance enhancements to atlas further enhancements there is atlas really is the future you know maybe adding you know more cloud native features and integrations and perhaps simplified ways to migrate to the cloud to atlas and improve access to data sources generally making the lives of developers and data analysts easier that's going to be we think a big theme at the event so these are the main things that we'll be scoping out at the event so please stop by if you're in new york city new york city at mongodb world or tune in to thecube.net okay that's it for today thanks to my colleagues stephanie chan who helps research breaking analysis from time to time alex meyerson is on production as today is as is andrew frick sarah kenney steve conte conte anderson hill and the entire team in palo alto thank you kristen martin and cheryl knight helped get the word out and rob hof is our editor-in-chief over there at siliconangle remember all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen just search breaking analysis podcast we do publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com want to reach me email me david.velante siliconangle.com or dm me at divalante or a comment on my linkedin post and please do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business this is dave vellante for the cube insights powered by etr thanks for watching see you next time [Music] you

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of HPE GreenLake announcements. We're seeing the transition of Hewlett Packard Enterprise as a company, yes they're going all in for as a service, but we're also seeing a transition from a hardware company to what I look at increasingly as a data management company. We're going to talk today to Vishal Lall who's GreenLake cloud services solutions at HPE and Matt Maccaux who's a global field CTO, Ezmeral Software at HPE. Gents welcome back to theCube. Good to see you again. >> Thank you for having us here. >> Thanks Dave. >> So Vishal let's start with you. What are the big mega trends that you're seeing in data? When you talk to customers, when you talk to partners, what are they telling you? What's your optic say? >> Yeah, I mean, I would say the first thing is data is getting even more important. It's not that data hasn't been important for enterprises, but as you look at the last, I would say 24 to 36 months has become really important, right? And it's become important because customers look at data and they're trying to stitch data together across different sources, whether it's marketing data, it's supply chain data, it's financial data. And they're looking at that as a source of competitive advantage. So, customers were able to make sense out of the data, enterprises that are able to make sense out of that data, really do have a competitive advantage, right? And they actually get better business outcomes. So that's really important, right? If you start looking at, where we are from an analytics perspective, I would argue we are in maybe the third generation of data analytics. Kind of the first one was in the 80's and 90's with data warehousing kind of EDW. A lot of companies still have that, but think of Teradata, right? The second generation more in the 2000's was around data lakes, right? And that was all about Hadoop and others, and really the difference between the first and the second generation was the first generation was more around structured data, right? Second became more about unstructured data, but you really couldn't run transactions on that data. And I would say, now we are entering this third generation, which is about data lake houses, right? Customers what they want really is, or enterprises, what they want really is they want structured data. They want unstructured data altogether. They want to run transactions on them, right? They want to use the data to mine it for machine learning purposes, right? Use it for SQL as well as non-SQL, right? And that's kind of where we are today. So, that's really what we are hearing from our customers in terms of at least the top trends. And that's how we are thinking about our strategy in context of those trends. >> So lake house use that term. It's an increasing popular term. It connotes, "Okay, I've got the best of data warehouse "and I've got the best of data lake. "I'm going to try to simplify the data warehouse. "And I'm going to try to clean up the data swamp "if you will." Matt, so, talk a little bit more about what you guys are doing specifically and what that means for your customers. >> Well, what we think is important is that there has to be a hybrid solution, that organizations are going to build their analytics. They're going to deploy algorithms, where the data either is being produced or where it's going to be stored. And that could be anywhere. That could be in the trunk of a vehicle. It could be in a public cloud or in many cases, it's on-premises in the data center. And where organizations struggle is they feel like they have to make a choice and a trade-off going from one to the other. And so what HPE is offering is a way to unify the experiences of these different applications, workloads, and algorithms, while connecting them together through a fabric so that the experience is tied together with consistent, security policies, not having to refactor your applications and deploying tools like Delta lake to ensure that the organization that needs to build a data product in one cloud or deploy another data product in the trunk of an automobile can do so. >> So, Vishal I wonder if we could talk about some of the patterns that you're seeing with customers as you go to deploy solutions. Are there other industry patterns? Are there any sort of things you can share that you're discerning? >> Yeah, no, absolutely. As we kind of hear back from our customers across industries, I think the problem sets are very similar, right? Whether you look at healthcare customers. You look at telco customers, you look at consumer goods, financial services, they're all quite similar. I mean, what are they looking for? They're looking for making sense, making business value from the data, breaking down the silos that I think Matt spoke about just now, right? How do I stitch intelligence across my data silos to get more business intelligence out of it. They're looking for openness. I think the problem that's happened is over time, people have realized that they are locked in with certain vendors or certain technologies. So, they're looking for openness and choice. So that's an important one that we've at least heard back from our customers. The other one is just being able to run machine learning on algorithms on the data. I think that's another important one for them as well. And I think the last one I would say is, TCO is important as customers over the last few years have realized going to public cloud is starting to become quite expensive, to run really large workloads on public cloud, especially as they want to egress data. So, cost performance, trade offs are starting to become really important and starting to enter into the conversation now. So, I would say those are some of the key things and themes that we are hearing from customers cutting across industries. >> And you talked to Matt about basically being able to essentially leave the data where it belongs, bring the compute to data. We talk about that all the time. And so that has to include on-prem, it's got to include the cloud. And I'm kind of curious on the edge, where you see that 'cause that's... Is that an eventual piece? Is that something that's actually moving in parallel? There's lot of fuzziness as an observer in the edge. >> I think the edge is driving the most interesting use cases. The challenge up until recently has been, well, I think it's always been connectivity, right? Whether we have poor connection, little connection or no connection, being able to asynchronously deploy machine learning jobs into some sort of remote location. Whether it's a very tiny edge or it's a very large edge, like a factory floor, the challenge as Vishal mentioned is that if we're going to deploy machine learning, we need some sort of consistency of runtime to be able to execute those machine learning models. Yes, we need consistent access to data, but consistent access in terms of runtime is so important. And I think Hadoop got us started down this path, the ability to very efficiently and cost-effectively run large data jobs against large data sets. And it attempted to work into the source ecosystem, but because of the monolithic deployment, the tightly coupling of the compute and the data, it never achieved that cloud native vision. And so what as role in HPE through GreenLake services is delivering with open source-based Kubernetes, open source Apache Spark, open source Delta lake libraries, those same cloud native services that you can develop on your workstation, deploy in your data center in the same way you deploy through automation out at the edge. And I think that is what's so critical about what we're going to see over the next couple of years. The edge is driving these use cases, but it's consistency to build and deploy those machine learning models and connect it consistently with data that's what's going to drive organizations to success. >> So you're saying you're able to decouple, to compute from the storage. >> Absolutely. You wouldn't have a cloud if you didn't decouple compute from storage. And I think this is sort of the demise of Hadoop was forcing that coupling. We have high-speed networks now. Whether I'm in a cloud or in my data center, even at the edge, I have high-performance networks, I can now do distributed computing and separate compute from storage. And so if I want to, I can have high-performance compute for my really data intensive applications and I can have cost-effective storage where I need to. And by separating that off, I can now innovate at the pace of those individual tools in that opensource ecosystem. >> So, can I stay on this for a second 'cause you certainly saw Snowflake popularize that, they were kind of early on. I don't know if they're the first, but they certainly one of the most successful. And you saw Amazon Redshift copied it. And Redshift was kind of a bolt on. What essentially they did is they teared off. You could never turn off the compute. You still had to pay for a little bit compute, that's kind of interesting. Snowflakes at the t-shirt sizes, so there's trade offs there. There's a lot of ways to skin the cat. How did you guys skin the cat? >> What we believe we're doing is we're taking the best of those worlds. Through GreenLake cloud services, the ability to pay for and provision on demand the computational services you need. So, if someone needs to spin up a Delta lake job to execute a machine learning model, you spin up that. We're of course spinning that up behind the scenes. The job executes, it spins down, and you only pay for what you need. And we've got reserve capacity there. So you, of course, just like you would in the public cloud. But more importantly, being able to then extend that through a fabric across clouds and edge locations, so that if a customer wants to deploy in some public cloud service, like we know we're going to, again, we're giving that consistency across that, and exposing it through an S3 API. >> So, Vishal at the end of the day, I mean, I love to talk about the plumbing and the tech, but the customer doesn't care, right? They want the lowest cost. They want the fastest outcome. They want the greatest value. My question is, how are you seeing data organizations evolve to sort of accommodate this third era of this next generation? >> Yeah. I mean, the way at least, kind of look at, from a customer perspective, what they're trying to do is first of all, I think Matt addressed it somewhat. They're looking at a consistent experience across the different groups of people within the company that do something to data, right? It could be a SQL users. People who's just writing a SQL code. It could be people who are writing machine learning models and running them. It could be people who are writing code in Spark. Right now they are, you know the experience is completely disjointed across them, across the three types of users or more. And so that's one thing that they trying to do, is just try to get that consistency. We spoke about performance. I mean the disjointedness between compute and storage does provide the agility, because there customers are looking for elasticity. How can I have an elastic environment? So, that's kind of the other thing they're looking at. And performance and DCU, I think a big deal now. So, I think that that's definitely on a customer's mind. So, as enterprises are looking at their data journey, those are the at least the attributes that they are trying to hit as they organize themselves to make the most out of the data. >> Matt, you and I have talked about this sort of trend to the decentralized future. We're sort of hitting on that. And whether it's in a first gen data warehouse, second gen data lake, data hub, bucket, whatever, that essentially should ideally stay where it is, wherever it should be from a performance standpoint, from a governance standpoint and a cost perspective, and just be a node on this, I like the term data mesh, but be a node on that, and essentially allow the business owners, those with domain context to you've mentioned data products before to actually build data products, maybe air quotes, but a data product is something that can be monetized. Maybe it cuts costs. Maybe it adds value in other ways. How do you see HPE fitting into that long-term vision which we know is going to take some time to play out? >> I think what's important for organizations to realize is that they don't have to go to the public cloud to get that experience they're looking for. Many organizations are still reluctant to push all of their data, their critical data, that is going to be the next way to monetize business into the public cloud. And so what HPE is doing is bringing the cloud to them. Bringing that cloud from the infrastructure, the virtualization, the containerization, and most importantly, those cloud native services. So, they can do that development rapidly, test it, using those open source tools and frameworks we spoke about. And if that model ends up being deployed on a factory floor, on some common X86 infrastructure, that's okay, because the lingua franca is Kubernetes. And as Vishal mentioned, Apache Spark, these are the common tools and frameworks. And so I want organizations to think about this unified analytics experience, where they don't have to trade off security for cost, efficiency for reliability. HPE through GreenLake cloud services is delivering all of that where they need to do it. >> And what about the speed to quality trade-off? Have you seen that pop up in customer conversations, and how are organizations dealing with that? >> Like I said, it depends on what you mean by speed. Do you mean a computational speed? >> No, accelerating the time to insights, if you will. We've got to go faster, faster, agile to the data. And it's like, "Whoa, move fast break things. "Whoa, whoa. "What about data quality and governance and, right?" They seem to be at odds. >> Yeah, well, because the processes are fundamentally broken. You've got a developer who maybe is able to spin up an instance in the public cloud to do their development, but then to actually do model training, they bring it back on-premises, but they're waiting for a data engineer to get them the data available. And then the tools to be provisioned, which is some esoteric stack. And then runtime is somewhere else. The entire process is broken. So again, by using consistent frameworks and tools, and bringing that computation to where the data is, and sort of blowing this construct of pipelines out of the water, I think is what is going to drive that success in the future. A lot of organizations are not there yet, but that's I think aspirationally where they want to be. >> Yeah, I think you're right. I think that is potentially an answer as to how you, not incrementally, but revolutionized sort of the data business. Last question, is talking about GreenLake, how this all fits in. Why GreenLake? Why do you guys feel as though it's differentiable in the market place? >> So, I mean, something that you asked earlier as well, time to value, right? I think that's a very important attribute and kind of a design factor as we look at GreenLake. If you look at GreenLake overall, kind of what does it stand for? It stands for experience. How do we make sure that we have the right experience for the users, right? We spoke about it in context of data. How do we have a similar experience for different users of data, but just broadly across an enterprise? So, it's all about experience. How do you automate it, right? How do you automate the workloads? How do you provision fast? How do you give folks a cloud... An experience that they have been used to in the public cloud, on using an Apple iPhone? So it's all about experience, I think that's number one. Number two is about choice and openness. I mean, as we look at GreenLake is not a proprietary platform. We are very, very clear that the design, one of the important design principles is about choice and openness. And that's the reason we are, you hear us talk about Kubernetes, about Apaches Spark, about Delta lake et cetera, et cetera, right? We're using kind of those open source models where customers have a choice. If they don't want to be on GreenLake, they can go to public cloud tomorrow. Or they can run in our Holos if they want to do it that way or in their Holos, if they want to do it. So they should have the choice. Third is about performance. I mean, what we've done is it's not just about the software, but we as a company know how to configure infrastructure for that workload. And that's an important part of it. I mean if you think about the machine learning workloads, we have the right Nvidia chips that accelerate those transactions. So, that's kind of the last, the third one, and the last one, I think, as I spoke about earlier is cost. We are very focused on TCO, but from a customer perspective, we want to make sure that we are giving a value proposition, which is just not about experience and performance and openness, but also about costs. So if you think about GreenLake, that's kind of the value proposition that we bring to our customers across those four dimensions. >> Guys, great conversation. Thanks so much, really appreciate your time and insights. >> Matt: Thanks for having us here, David. >> All right, you're welcome. And thank you for watching everybody. Keep it right there for more great content from HPE GreenLake announcements. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> My name is Dave Vellante. And with me are two world-class technologists, visionaries and entrepreneurs. Benoit Dageville, he co-founded Snowflake and he's now the President of the Product Division, and Florian Douetteau is the Co-founder and CEO of Dataiku. Gentlemen, welcome to the cube to first timers, love it. >> Yup, great to be here. >> Now Florian you and Benoit, you have a number of customers in common, and I've said many times on theCUBE, that the first era of cloud was really about infrastructure, making it more agile, taking out costs. And the next generation of innovation, is really coming from the application of machine intelligence to data with the cloud, is really the scale platform. So is that premise relevant to you, do you buy that? And why do you think Snowflake, and Dataiku make a good match for customers? >> I think that because it's our values that aligned, when it gets all about actually today, and knowing complexity of our customers, so you close the gap. Where we need to commoditize the access to data, the access to technology, it's not only about data. Data is important, but it's also about the impacts of data. How can you make the best out of data as fast as possible, as easily as possible, within an organization. And another value is about just the openness of the platform, building a future together. Having a platform that is not just about the platform, but also for the ecosystem of partners around it, bringing the level of accessibility, and flexibility you need for the 10 years of that. >> Yeah, so that's key, that it's not just data. It's turning data into insights. Now Benoit, you came out of the world of very powerful, but highly complex databases. And we know we all know that you and the Snowflake team, you get very high marks for really radically simplifying customers' lives. But can you talk specifically about the types of challenges that your customers are using Snowflake to solve? >> Yeah, so the challenge before snowflake, I would say, was really to put all the data in one place, and run all the computes, all the workloads that you wanted to run against that data. And of course existing legacy platforms were not able to support that level of concurrency, many workload, we talk about machine learning, data science, data engineering, data warehouse, big data workloads, all running in one place didn't make sense at all. And therefore be what customers did this to create silos, silos of data everywhere, with different system, having a subset of the data. And of course now, you cannot analyze this data in one place. So Snowflake, we really solved that problem by creating a single architecture where you can put all the data into cloud. So it's a really cloud native. We really thought about how solve that problem, how to create, leverage cloud, and the elasticity of cloud to really put all the data in one place. But at the same time, not run all workload at the same place. So each workload that runs in Snowflake, at its dedicated compute resources to run. And that makes it agile, right? Florian talked about data scientist having to run analysis, so they need a lot of compute resources, but only for a few hours. And with Snowflake, they can run these new workload, add this workload to the system, get the compute resources that they need to run this workload. And then when it's over, they can shut down their system, it will automatically shut down. Therefore they would not pay for the resources that they don't use. So it's a very agile system, where you can do this analysis when you need, and you have all the power to run all these workload at the same time. >> Well, it's profound what you guys built. I mean to me, I mean of course everybody's trying to copy it now, it was like, I remember that bringing the notion of bringing compute to the data, in the Hadoop days. And I think that, as I say, everybody is sort of following your suit now or trying to. Florian, I got to say the first data scientist I ever interviewed on theCUBE, it was the amazing Hillary Mason, right after she started at Bitly, and she made data sciences sounds so compelling, but data science is a hard. So same question for you, what do you see as the biggest challenges for customers that they're facing with data science? >> The biggest challenge from my perspective, is that once you solve the issue of the data silo, with Snowflake, you don't want to bring another silo, which will be a silo of skills. And essentially, thanks to the talent gap, between the talent available to the markets, or are released to actually find recruits, train data scientists, and what needs to be done. And so you need actually to simplify the access to technologies such as, every organization can make it, whatever the talent, by bridging that gap. And to get there, there's a need of actually backing up the silos. Having a collaborative approach, where technologies and business work together, and actually all puts up their ends into those data projects together. >> It makes sense, Florain let's stay with you for a minute, if I can. Your observation space, it's pretty, pretty global. And so you have a unique perspective on how can companies around the world might be using data, and data science. Are you seeing any trends, maybe differences between regions, or maybe within different industries? What are you seeing? >> Yeah, definitely I do see trends that are not geographic, that much, but much more in terms of maturity of certain industries and certain sectors. Which are, that certain industries invested a lot, in terms of data, data access, ability to store data. As well as experience, and know region level of maturity, where they can invest more, and get to the next steps. And it's really relying on the ability of certain leaders, certain organizations, actually, to have built these long-term data strategy, a few years ago when no stats reaping of the benefits. >> A decade ago, Florian, Hal Varian famously said that the sexy job in the next 10 years will be statisticians. And then everybody sort of changed that to data scientist. And then everybody, all the statisticians became data scientists, and they got a raise. But data science requires more than just statistics acumen. What skills do you see as critical for the next generation of data science? >> Yeah, it's a great question because I think the first generation of data scientists, became data scientists because they could have done some Python quickly, and be flexible. And I think that the skills of the next generation of data scientists will definitely be different. It will be, first of all, being able to speak the language of the business, meaning how you translates data insight, predictive modeling, all of this into actionable insights of business impact. And it would be about how you collaborate with the rest of the business. It's not just how fast you can build something, how fast you can do a notebook in Python, or do predictive models of some sorts. It's about how you actually build this bridge with the business, and obviously those things are important, but we also must be cognizant of the fact that technology will evolve in the future. There will be new tools, new technologies, and they will still need to keep this level of flexibility to understand quickly what are the next tools they need to use a new languages, or whatever to get there. >> As you look back on 2020, what are you thinking? What are you telling people as we head into next year? >> Yeah, I think it's very interesting, right? This crises has told us that the world really can change from one day to the next. And this has dramatic and perform the aspects. For example companies all of a sudden, show their revenue line dropping, and they had to do less with data. And some other companies was the reverse, right? All of a sudden, they were online like Instacart, for example, and their business completely changed from one day to the other. So this agility of adjusting the resources that you have to do the task, and need that can change, using solution like Snowflake really helps that. Then we saw both in our customers. Some customers from one day to the next, were growing like big time, because they benefited from COVID, and their business benefited. But others had to drop. And what is nice with cloud, it allows you to adjust compute resources to your business needs, and really address it in house. The other aspect is understanding what happening, right? You need to analyze. We saw all our customers basically, wanted to understand what is the going to be the impact on my business? How can I adapt? How can I adjust? And for that, they needed to analyze data. And of course, a lot of data which are not necessarily data about their business, but also they are from the outside. For example, COVID data, where is the States, what is the impact, geographic impact on COVID, the time. And access to this data is critical. So this is the premise of the data cloud, right? Having one single place, where you can put all the data of the world. So our customer obviously then, started to consume the COVID data from that our data marketplace. And we had delete already thousand customers looking at this data, analyzing these data, and to make good decisions. So this agility and this, adapting from one hour to the next is really critical. And that goes with data, with cloud, with interesting resources, and that doesn't exist on premise. So indeed I think the lesson learned is we are living in a world, which is changing all the time, and we have to understand it. We have to adjust, and that's why cloud some ways is great. >> Excellent thank you. In theCUBE we like to talk about disruption, of course, who doesn't? And also, I mean, you look at AI, and the impact that it's beginning to have, and kind of pre-COVID. You look at some of the industries that were getting disrupted by, everyone talks about digital transformation. And you had on the one end of the spectrum, industries like publishing, which are highly disrupted, or taxis. And you can say, okay, well that's Bits versus Adam, the old Negroponte thing. But then the flip side of, you say look at financial services that hadn't been dramatically disrupted, certainly healthcare, which is ripe for disruption, defense. So there a number of industries that really hadn't leaned into digital transformation, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Not on my watch. There was this complacency. And then of course COVID broke everything. So Florian I wonder if you could comment, what industry or industries do you think are going to be most impacted by data science, and what I call machine intelligence, or AI, in the coming years and decade? >> Honestly, I think it's all of them, or at least most of them, because for some industries, the impact is very visible, because we have talking about brand new products, drones, flying cars, or whatever that are very visible for us. But for others, we are talking about a part from changes in the way you operate as an organization. Even if financial industry itself doesn't seem to be so impacted, when you look at it from the consumer side, or the outside insights in Germany, it's probably impacted just because the way you use data (mumbles) for flexibility you need. Is there kind of the cost gain you can get by leveraging the latest technologies, is just the numbers. And so it's will actually comes from the industry that also. And overall, I think that 2020, is a year where, from the perspective of AI and analytics, we understood this idea of maturity and resilience, maturity meaning that when you've got to crisis you actually need data and AI more than before, you need to actually call the people from data in the room to take better decisions, and look for one and a backlog. And I think that's a very important learning from 2020, that will tell things about 2021. And the resilience, it's like, data analytics today is a function transforming every industries, and is so important that it's something that needs to work. So the infrastructure needs to work, the infrastructure needs to be super resilient, so probably not on prem or not fully on prem, at some point. And the kind of resilience where you need to be able to blend for literally anything, like no hypothesis in terms of BLOs, can be taken for granted. And that's something that is new, and which is just signaling that we are just getting to a next step for data analytics. >> I wonder Benoir if you have anything to add to that. I mean, I often wonder, when are machines going to be able to make better diagnoses than doctors, some people say already. Will the financial services, traditional banks lose control of payment systems? What's going to happen to big retail stores? I mean, maybe bring us home with maybe some of your finals thoughts. >> Yeah, I would say I don't see that as a negative, right? The human being will always be involved very closely, but then the machine, and the data can really help, see correlation in the data that would be impossible for human being alone to discover. So I think it's going to be a compliment not a replacement. And everything that has made us faster, doesn't mean that we have less work to do. It means that we can do more. And we have so much to do, that I will not be worried about the effect of being more efficient, and bare at our work. And indeed, I fundamentally think that data, processing of images, and doing AI on these images, and discovering patterns, and potentially flagging disease way earlier than it was possible. It is going to have a huge impact in health care. And as Florian was saying, every industry is going to be impacted by that technology. So, yeah, I'm very optimistic. >> Great, guys, I wish we had more time. I've got to leave it there, but so thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. It was really a pleasure having you.

>> Announcer: Live from New York City, it's theCUBE. Covering IBM Data Science For All. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome to the big apple, John Walls and Dave Vellante here on theCUBE we are live at IBM's Data Science For All. Going to be here throughout the day with a big panel discussion wrapping up our day. So be sure to stick around all day long on theCUBe for that. Dave always good to be here in New York is it not? >> Well you know it's been kind of the data science weeks, months, last week we're in Boston at an event with the chief data officer conference. All the Boston Datarati were there, bring it all down to New York City getting hardcore really with data science so it's from chief data officer to the hardcore data scientists. >> The CDO, hot term right now. Daniel Hernandez now joins as our first guest here at Data Science For All. Who's a VP of IBM Analytics, good to see you. David thanks for being with us. >> Pleasure. >> Alright well give us first off your take, let's just step back high level here. Data science it's certainly been evolving for decades if you will. First off how do you define it today? And then just from the IBM side of the fence, how do you see it in terms of how businesses should be integrating this into their mindset. >> So the way I describe data science simply to my clients is it's using the scientific method to answer questions or deliver insights. It's kind of that simple. Or answering questions quantitatively. So it's a methodology, it's a discipline, it's not necessarily tools. So that's kind of the way I approach describing what it is. >> Okay and then from the IBM side of the fence, in terms of how wide of a net are you casting these days I assume it's as big as you can get your arms out. >> So when you think about any particular problem that's a data science problem, you need certain capabilities. We happen to deliver those capabilities. You need the ability to collect, store, manage, any and all data. You need the ability to organize that data so you can discover it and protect it. You got to be able to analyze it. Automate the mundane, explain the past, predict the future. Those are the capabilities you need to do data science. We deliver a portfolio of it. Including on the analyze part of our portfolio, our data science tools that we would declare as such. >> So data science for all is very aspirational, and when you guys made the announcement of the Watson data platform last fall, one of the things that you focused on was collaboration between data scientists, data engineers, quality engineers, application development, the whole sort of chain. And you made the point that most of the time that data scientists spend is on wrangling data. You're trying to attack that problem, and you're trying to break down the stovepipes between those roles that I just mentioned. All that has to happen before you can actually have data science for all. I mean that's just data science for all hardcore data people. Where are we in terms of sort of the progress that your clients have made in that regard? >> So you know, I would say there's two majors vectors of progress we've made. So if you want data science for all you need to be able to address people that know how to code and people that don't know how to code. So if you consider kind the history of IBM in the data science space especially in SPSS, which has been around for decades. We're mastering and solving data science problems for non-coders. The data science experience really started with embracing coders. Developers that grew up in open source, that lived and learned Jupiter or Python and were more comfortable there. And integration of these is kind of our focus. So that's one aspect. Serving the needs of people that know how to code and don't in the kind of data science role. And then for all means supporting an entire analytics life cycle from collecting the data you need in order to answer the question that you're trying to answer to organizing that information once you've collected so you can discover it inside of tools like our own data science experience and SPSS, and then of course the set of tools that around exploratory analytics. All integrated so that you can do that end to end life cycle. So where clients are, I think they're getting certainly much more sophisticated in understanding that. You know most people have approached data science as a tool problem, as a data prep problem. It's a life cycle problem. And that's kind of how we're thinking about it. We're thinking about it in terms of, alright if our job is answer questions, delivering insights through scientific methods, how do we decompose that problem to a set of things that people need to get the job done, serving the individuals that have to work together. >> And when you think about, go back to the days where it's sort of the data warehouse was king. Something we talked about in Boston last week, it used to be the data warehouse was king, now it's the process is much more important. But it was very few people had access to that data, you had the elapsed time of getting answers, and the inflexibility of the systems. Has that changed and to what degree has it changed? >> I think if you were to go ask anybody in business whether or not they have all the data they need to do their job, they would say no. Why? So we've invested in EDW's, we've invested in Hadoop. In part sometimes, the problem might be, I just don't have the data. Most of the time it is I have the data I just don't know where it is. So there's a pretty significant issue on data discoverability, and it's important that I might have data in my operational systems, I might have data inside my EDW, I don't have everything inside my EDW, I've standed up one or more data lakes, and to solve my problem like customer segmentation I have data everywhere, how do I find and bring it in? >> That seems like that should be a fundamental consideration, right? If you're going to gather this much more information, make it accessible to people. And if you don't, it's a big flaw, it's a big gap is it not? >> So yes, and I think part of the reason why is because governance professionals which I am, you know I spent quite a bit of time trying to solve governance related problems. We've been focusing pretty maniacally on kind of the compliance, and the regulatory and security related issues. Like how do we keep people from going to jail, how do we ensure regulatory compliance with things like e-discovery, and records for instance. And it just so happens the same discipline that you use, even though in some cases lighter weight implementations, are what you need in order to solve this data discovery problem. So the discourse around governance has been historically about compliance, about regulations, about cost takeout, not analytics. And so a lot of our time certainly in R&D is trying to solve that data discovery problem which is how do I discover data using semantics that I have, which as a regular user is not physical understandings of my data, and once I find it how am I assured that what I get is what I should get so that it's, I'm not subject to compliance related issues, but also making the company more vulnerable to data breach. >> Well so presumably part of that anyway involves automating classification at the point of creation or use, which is actually was a technical challenge for a number of years. Has that challenge been solved in your view? >> I think machine learning is, and in fact later on today I will be doing some demonstrations of technology which will show how we're making the application of machine learning easy, inside of everything we do we're applying machine learning techniques including to classification problems that help us solve the problem. So it could be we're automatically harvesting technical metadata. Are there business terms that could be automatically extracted that don't require some data steward to have to know and assert, right? Or can we automatically suggest and still have the steward for a case where I need a canonical data model, and so I just don't want the machine to tell me everything, but I want the machine to assist the data curation process. We are not just exploring the application of machine learning to solve that data classification problem, which historically was a manual one. We're embedding that into most of the stuff that we're doing. Often you won't even know that we're doing it behind the scenes. >> So that means that often times well the machine ideally are making the decisions as to who gets access to what, and is helping at least automate that governance, but there's a natural friction that occurs. And I wonder if you can talk about the balance sheet if you will between information as an asset, information as a liability. You know the more restrictions you put on that information the more it constricts you know a business user's ability. So how do you see that shaping up? >> I think it's often a people process problem, not necessarily a technology problem. I don't think as an industry we've figured it out. Certainly a lot of our clients haven't figured out that balance. I mean there are plenty of conversation I'll go into where I'll talk to a data science team in a same line of business as a governance team and what the data science team will tell us is I'm building my own data catalog because the stuff that the governance guys are doing doesn't help me. And the reason why it doesn't help me is because it's they're going through this top down data curation methodology and I've got a question, I need to go find the data that's relevant. I might not know what that is straight away. So the CDO function in a lot of organizations is helping bridge that. So you'll see governance responsibilities line up with the CDO with analytics. And I think that's gone a long way to bridge that gaps. But that conversation that I was just mentioning is not unique to one or two customers. Still a lot of customers are doing it. Often customers that either haven't started a CDO practice or are early days on it still. >> So about that, because this is being introduced to the workplace, a new concept right, fairly new CDOs. As opposed to CIO or CTO, you know you have these other. I mean how do you talk to your clients about trying to broaden their perspective on that and I guess emphasizing the need for them to consider putting somebody of a sole responsibility, or primary responsibility for their data. Instead of just putting it lumping it in somewhere else. >> So we happen to have one of the best CDO's inside of our group which is like a handy tool for me. So if I go into a client and it's purporting to be a data science problem and it turns out they have a data management issue around data discovery, and they haven't yet figured out how to install the process and people design to solve that particular issue one of the key things I'll do is I'll bring in our CDO and his delegates to have a conversation around them on what we're doing inside of IBM, what we're seeing in other customers to help institute that practice inside of, inside of their own organization. We have forums like the CDO event in Boston last week, which are designed to, you know it's not designed to be here's what IBM can do in technology, it's designed to say here's how the discipline impacts your business and here's some best practices you should apply. So if ultimately I enter into those conversations where I find that there's a need, I typically am like alright, I'm not going to, tools are part of the problem but not the only issue, let me bring someone in that can describe the people process related issues which you got to get right. In order for, in some cases to the tools that I deliver to matter. >> We had Seth Dobrin on last weekend in Boston, and Inderpal Bhandari as well, and he put forth this enterprise, sort of data blueprint if you will. CDO's are sort of-- >> Daniel: We're using that in IBM by the way. >> Well this is the thing, it's a really well thought out sort of structure that seems to be trickling down to the divisions. And so it's interesting to hear how you're applying Seth's expertise. I want to ask you about the Hortonworks relationship. You guys have made a big deal about that this summer. To me it was a no brainer. Really what was the point of IBM having a Hadoop distro, and Hortonworks gets this awesome distribution channel. IBM has always had an affinity for open source so that made sense there. What's behind that relationship and how's it going? >> It's going awesome. Perhaps what we didn't say and we probably should have focused on is the why customers care aspect. There are three main by an occasion use cases that customers are implementing where they are ready even before the relationship. They're asking IBM and Hortonworks to work together. And so we were coming to the table working together as partners before the deeper collaboration we started in June. The first one was bringing data science to Hadoop. So running data science models, doing data exploration where the data is. And if you were to actually rewind the clock on the IBM side and consider what we did with Hortonworks in full consideration of what we did prior, we brought the data science experience and machine learning to Z in February. The highest value transactional data was there. The next step was bring data science to where the, often for a lot of clients the second most valuable set of data which is Hadoop. So that was kind of part one. And then we've kind of continued that by bringing data science experience to the private cloud. So that's one use case. I got a lot data, I need to do data science, I want to do it in resident, I want to take advantage of the compute grid I've already laid down, and I want to take advantage of the performance benefits and the integrated security and governance benefits by having these things co-located. That's kind of play one. So we're bringing in data science experience and HDP and HDF, which are the Hortonworks distributions way closer together and optimized for each other. Another component of that is not all data is going to be in Hadoop as we were describing. Some of it's in an EDW and that data science job is going to require data outside of Hadoop, and so we brought big SQL. It was already supporting Hortonworks, we just optimized the stack, and so the combination of data science experience and big SQL allows you to data science against a broader surface area of data. That's kind of play one. Play two is I've got a EDW either for cost or agility reasons I want to augment it or some cases I might want to offload some data from it to Hadoop. And so the combination of Hortonworks plus big SQL and our data integration technologies are a perfect combination there and we have plenty of clients using that for kind of analytics offloading from EDW. And then the third piece that we're doing quite a bit of engineering, go-to-market work around is govern data lakes. So I want to enable self service analytics throughout my enterprise. I want self service analytics tools to everyone that has access to it. I want to make data available to them, but I want that data to be governed so that they can discover what's in it in the lake, and whatever I give them is what they should have access to. So those are the kind of the three tracks that we're working with Hortonworks on, and all of them are making stunning results inside of clients. >> And so that involves actually some serious engineering as well-- >> Big time. It's not just sort of a Barney deal or just a pure go to market-- >> It's certainly more the market texture and just works. >> Big picture down the road then. Whatever challenges that you see on your side of the business for the next 12 months. What are you going to tackle, what's that monster out there that you think okay this is our next hurdle to get by. >> I forgot if Rob said this before, but you'll hear him say often and it's statistically proven, the majority of the data that's available is not available to be Googled, so it's behind a firewall. And so we started last year with the Watson data platform creating an integrating data analytics system. What if customers have data that's on-prem that they want to take advantage of, what if they're not ready for the public cloud. How do we deliver public benefits to them when they want to run that workload behind a firewall. So we're doing a significant amount of engineering, really starting with the work that we did on a data science experience. Bringing it behind the firewall, but still delivering similar benefits you would expect if you're delivering it in the public cloud. A major advancement that IBM made is run IBM cloud private. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that announcement. We made, I think it's already two weeks ago. So it's a (mumbles) foundation on top of which we have micro services on top of which our stack is going to be made available. So when I think of kind of where the future is, you know our customers ultimately we believe want to run data and analytic workloads in the public cloud. How do we get them there considering they're not there now in a stepwise fashion that is sensible economically project management-wise culturally. Without having them having to wait. That's kind of big picture, kind of a big problem space we're spending considerable time thinking through. >> We've been talking a lot about this on theCUBE in the last several months or even years is people realize they can't just reform their business and stuff into the cloud. They have to bring the cloud model to their data. Wherever that data exists. If it's in the cloud, great. And the key there is you got to have a capability and a solution that substantially mimics that public cloud experience. That's kind of what you guys are focused on. >> What I tell clients is, if you're ready for certain workloads, especially green field workloads, and the capability exists in a public cloud, you should go there now. Because you're going to want to go there eventually anyway. And if not, then a vendor like IBM helps you take advantage of that behind a firewall, often in form facts that are ready to go. The integrated analytics system, I don't know if you're familiar with that. That includes our super advanced data warehouse, the data science experience, our query federation technology powered by big SQL, all in a form factor that's ready to go. You get started there for data and data science workloads and that's a major step in the direction to the public cloud. >> Alright well Daniel thank you for the time, we appreciate that. We didn't get to touch at all on baseball, but next time right? >> Daniel: Go Cubbies. (laughing) >> Sore spot with me but it's alright, go Cubbies. Alright Daniel Hernandez from IBM, back with more here from Data Science For All. IBM's event here in Manhattan. Back with more in theCUBE in just a bit. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Munich, Germany; it's The Cube. Covering IBM; fast-track your data. Brought to you by IBM. (upbeat techno music) >> For you here at the show, generally; and specifically, what are you doing here today? >> There's really three things going on at the show, three high level things. One is we're talking about our new... How we're repositioning our hybrid data management portfolio, specifically some announcements around DB2 in a hybrid environment, and some highly transactional offerings around DB2. We're talking about our unified governance portfolio; so actually delivering a platform for unified governance that allows our clients to interact with governance and data management kind of products in a more streamlined way, and help them actually solve a problem instead of just offering products. The third is really around data science and machine learning. Specifically we're talking about our machine learning hub that we're launching here in Germany. Prior to this we had a machine learning hub in San Francisco, Toronto, one in Asia, and now we're launching one here in Europe. >> Seth, can you describe what this hub is all about? This is a data center where you're hosting machine learning services, or is it something else? >> Yeah, so this is where clients can come and learn how to do data science. They can bring their problems, bring their data to our facilities, learn how to solve a data science problem in a more team oriented way; interacting with data scientists, machine learning engineers, basically, data engineers, developers, to solve a problem for their business around data science. These previous hubs have been completely booked, so we wanted to launch them in other areas to try and expand the capacity of them. >> You're hosting a round table today, right, on the main tent? >> Yep. >> And you got a customer on, you guys going to be talking about sort of applying practices and financial and other areas. Maybe describe that a little bit. >> We have a customer on from ING, Heinrich, who's the chief architect for ING. ING, IBM, and Horton Works have a consortium, if you would, or a framework that we're doing around Apache Atlas and Ranger, as the kind of open-source operating system for our unified governance platform. So much as IBM has positioned Spark as a unified, kind of open-source operating system for analytics, for a unified governance platform... For a governance platform to be truly unified, you need to be able to integrate metadata. The biggest challenge about connecting your data environments, if you're an enterprise that was not internet born, or cloud born, is that you have proprietary metadata platforms that all want to be the master. When everyone wants to be the master, you can't really get anything done. So what we're doing around Apache Atlas is we are setting up Apache Atlas as kind of a virtual translator, if you would, or a dictionary between all the different proprietary metadata platforms so that you can get a single unified view of your data environment across hybrid clouds, on premise, in the cloud, and across different proprietary vendor platforms. Because it's open-sourced, there are these connectors that can go in and out of the proprietary platforms. >> So Seth, you seem like you're pretty tuned in to the portfolio within the analytics group. How are you spending your time as the Chief Data Officer? How do you balance it between customer visits, maybe talking about some of the products, and then you're sort of day job? >> I actually have three days jobs. My job's actually split into kind of three pieces. The first, my primary mission, is really around transforming IBM's internal business unit, internal business workings, to use data and analytics to run our business. So kind of internal business unit transformation. Part of that business unit transformation is also making sure that we're compliant with regulations like GDBR and other regulations. Another third is really around kind of rethinking our offerings from a CDO perspective. As a CDO, and as you, Dave, I've only been with IBM for seven months. As a former client recently, and as a CDO, what is it that I want to see from IBM's offerings? We kind of hit on it a little bit with the unified governance platform, where I think IBM makes fantastic products. But as a client, if a salesperson shows up to me, I don't want them selling me a product, 'cause if I want an MDM solution, I'll call you up and say, "Hey, I need an MDM solution. "Give me a quote." What I want them showing up is saying, "I have a solution that's going to solve "your governance problem across your portfolio." Or, "I'm going to solve your data science problem." Or, "I'm going to help you master your data, "and manage your data across "all these different environments." So really working with the offering management and the Dev teams to define what are these three or four, kind of business platforms that we want to settle on? We know three of them at least, right? We know that we have a hybrid data management. We have unified governance. We have data science and machine learning, and you could think of the Z franchise as a fourth platform. >> Seth, can you net out how governance relates to data science? 'Cause there is governance of the statistical models, machine learning, and so forth, version control. I mean, in an end to end machine learning pipeline, there's various versions of various artifacts they have to be managed in a structured way. Is your unified governance bundle, or portfolio, does it address those requirements? Or just the data governance? >> Yeah, so the unified governance platform really kind of focuses today on data governance and how good data governance can be an enabler of rapid data science. So if you have your data all pre-governed, it makes it much quicker to get access to data and understand what you can and can't do with data; especially being here in Europe, in the context of the EU GDPR. You need to make sure that your data scientists are doing things that are approved by the user, because basically your data, you have to give explicit consent to allow things to be done with it. But long term vision is that... essentially the output of models is data, right? And how you use and deploy those models also need to be governed. So the long term vision is that we will have a governance platform for all those things, as well. I think it makes more sense for those things to be governed in the data science platform, if you would. And we... >> We often hear separate from GDPR and all that, is something called algorithmic accountability; that more is being discussed in policy circles, in government circles around the world, as strongly related to everything you're describing. Being able to trace the lineage of any algorithmic decision back to the data, the metadata, and so forth, and the machine learning models that might have driven it. Is that where IBM's going with this portfolio? >> I think that's the natural extension of it. We're thinking really in the context of them as two different pieces, but if you solve them both and you connect them together, then you have that problem. But I think you're absolutely right. As we're leveraging machine learning and artificial intelligence, in general, we need to be able to understand how we got to a decision, and that includes the model, the data, how the data was gathered, how the data was used and processed. So it is that entire pipeline, 'cause it is a pipeline. You're not doing machine learning or AI in a vacuum. You're doing it in the context of the data, and you're doing it in the context about the individuals or the organizations that you're trying to influence with the output of those models. >> I call it Dev ops for data science. >> Seth, in the early Hadoop days, the real headwind was complexity. It still is, by the way. We know that. Companies like IBM are trying to reduce that complexity. Spark helps a little bit So the technology will evolve, we get that. It seems like one of the other big headwinds right now is that most companies don't have a great understanding of how they can take data and monetize it, turn it into value. Most companies, many anyway, make the mistake of, "Well, I don't really want to sell my data," or, "I'm not really a data supplier." And they're kind of thinking about it, maybe not in the right way. But we seem to be entering a next wave here, where people are beginning to understand I can cut costs, I can do predictive maintenance, I can maybe not sell the data, but I can enhance what I'm doing and increase my revenue, maybe my customer retention. They seem to be tuning, more so; largely, I think 'cause of the chief data officer roles, helping them think that through. I wonder if you would give us your point of view on that narrative. >> I think what you're describing is kind of the digital transformation journey. I think the end game, as enterprises go through a digital transformation, the end game is how do I sell services, outcomes, those types of things. How do I sell an outcome to my end user? That's really the end game of a digital transformation in my mind. But before you can get to that, before you transform your business's objectives, there's a couple of intermediary steps that are required for that. The first is what you're describing, is those kind of data transformations. Enterprises need to really get a handle on their data and become data driven, and start then transforming their current business model; so how do I accelerate my current business leveraging data and analytics? I kind of frame that, that's like the data science kind of transformation aspect of the digital journey. Then the next aspect of it is how do I transform my business and change my business objectives? Part of that first step is in fact, how do I optimize my supply chain? How do I optimize my workforce? How do I optimize my goals? How do I get to my current, you know, the things that Wall Street cares about for business; how do I accelerate those, make those faster, make those better, and really put my company out in front? 'Cause really in the grand scheme of things, there's two types of companies today; there's the company that's going to be the disruptor, and there's companies that's going to get disrupted. Most companies want to be the disruptors, and it's a process to do that. >> So the accounting industry doesn't have standards around valuing data as an asset, and many of us feel as though waiting for that is a mistake. You can't wait for that. You've got to figure out on your own. But again, it seems to be somewhat of a headwind because it puts data and data value in this fuzzy category. But there are clearly the data haves and the data have-nots. What are you seeing in that regard? >> I think the first... When I was in my former role, my former company went through an exercise of valuing our data and our decisions. I'm actually doing that same exercise at IBM right now. We're going through IBM, at least in the analytics business unit, the part I'm responsible for, and going to all the leaders and saying, "What decisions are you making?" "Help me understand the decisions that you're making." "Help me understand the data you need "to make those decisions." And that does two things. Number one, it does get to the point of, how can we value the decisions? 'Cause each one of those decisions has a specific value to the company. You can assign a dollar amount to it. But it also helps you change how people in the enterprise think. Because the first time you go through and ask these questions, they talk about the dashboards they want to help them make their preconceived decisions, validated by data. They have a preconceived notion of the decision they want to make. They want the data to back it up. So they want a dashboard to help them do that. So when you come in and start having this conversation, you kind of stop them and say, "Okay, what you're describing is a dashboard. "That's not a decision. "Let's talk about the decision that you want to make, "and let's understand the real value of that decision." So you're doing two things, you're building a portfolio of decisions that then becomes to your point, Jim, about Dev ops for data science. It's your backlog for your data scientists, in the long run. You then connect those decisions to data that's required to make those, and you can extrapolate the data for each decision to the component that each piece of data makes up to it. So you can group your data logically within an enterprise; customer, product, talent, location, things like that, and you can assign a value to those based on decisions they support. >> Jim: So... >> Dave: Go ahead, please. >> As a CDO, following on that, are you also, as part of that exercise, trying to assess the value of not just the data, but of data science as a capability? Or particular data science assets, like machine learning models? In the overall scheme of things, that kind of valuation can then drive IBM's decision to ramp up their internal data science initiatives, or redeploy it, or, give me a... >> That's exactly what happened. As you build this portfolio of decisions, each decision has a value. So I am now assigning a value to the data science models that my team will build. As CDOs, CDOs are a relatively new role in many organizations. When money gets tight, they say, "What's this guy doing?" (Dave laughing) Having a portfolio of decisions that's saying, "Here's real value I'm adding..." So, number one, "Here's the value I can add in the future," and as you check off those boxes, you can kind of go and say, "Here's value I've added. "Here's where I've changed how the company's operating. "Here's where I've generated X billions of dollars "of new revenue, or cost savings, or cost avoidance, "for the enterprise." >> When you went through these exercises at your previous company, and now at IBM, are you using standardized valuation methodologies? Did you kind of develop your own, or come up with a scoring system? How'd you do that? >> I think there's some things around, like net promoter score, where there's pretty good standards on how to assign value to increases in net promoter score, or decreases in net promoter score for certain aspects of your business. In other ways, you need to kind of decide as an enterprise, how do we value our assets? Do we use a three year, five year, ten year MPV? Do we use some other metric? You need to kind of frame it in the reference that your CFO is used to talking about so that it's in the context that the company is used to talking about. Most companies, it's net present value. >> Okay, and you're measuring that on an ongoing basis. >> Seth: Yep. >> And fine tuning as you go along. Seth, we're out of time. Thanks so much for coming back in The Cube. It was great to see you. >> Seth: Yeah, thanks for having me. >> You're welcome, good luck this afternoon. >> Seth: Alright. >> Keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back. Actually, let me run down the day here for you, just take a second to do that. We're going to end our Cube interviews for the morning, and then we're going to cut over to the main tent. So in about an hour, Rob Thomas is going to kick off the main tent here with a keynote, talking about where data goes next. Hilary Mason's going to be on. There's a session with Dez Blanchfield on data science as a team sport. Then the big session on changing regulations, GDPRs. Seth, you've got some customers that you're going to bring on and talk about these issues. And then, sort of balancing act, the balancing act of hybrid data. Then we're going to come back to The Cube and finish up our Cube interviews for the afternoon. There's also going to be two breakout sessions; one with Hilary Mason, and one on GDPR. You got to go to IBMgo.com and log in and register. It's all free to see those breakout sessions. Everything else is open. You don't even have to register or log in to see that. So keep it right here, everybody. Check out the main tent. Check out siliconangle.com, and of course IBMgo.com for all the action here. Fast track your data. We're live from Munich, Germany; and we'll see you a little later. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Munich, Germany, it's theCUBE. Covering IBM: Fast Track Your Data. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome, everybody, to Munich, Germany. This is Fast Track Your Data brought to you by IBM, and this is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my co-host Jim Kobielus. Rob Thomas is here, he's the General Manager of IBM Analytics, and longtime CUBE guest, good to see you again, Rob. >> Hey, great to see you. Thanks for being here. >> Dave: You're welcome, thanks for having us. So we're talking about, we missed each other last week at the Hortonworks DataWorks Summit, but you came on theCUBE, you guys had the big announcement there. You're sort of getting out, doing a Hadoop distribution, right? TheCUBE gave up our Hadoop distributions several years ago so. It's good that you joined us. But, um, that's tongue-in-cheek. Talk about what's going on with Hortonworks. You guys are now going to be partnering with them essentially to replace BigInsights, you're going to continue to service those customers. But there's more than that. What's that announcement all about? >> We're really excited about that announcement, that relationship, just to kind of recap for those that didn't see it last week. We are making a huge partnership with Hortonworks, where we're bringing data science and machine learning to the Hadoop community. So IBM will be adopting HDP as our distribution, and that's what we will drive into the market from a Hadoop perspective. Hortonworks is adopting IBM Data Science Experience and IBM machine learning to be a core part of their Hadoop platform. And I'd say this is a recognition. One is, companies should do what they do best. We think we're great at data science and machine learning. Hortonworks is the best at Hadoop. Combine those two things, it'll be great for clients. And, we also talked about extending that to things like Big SQL, where they're partnering with us on Big SQL, around modernizing data environments. And then third, which relates a little bit to what we're here in Munich talking about, is governance, where we're partnering closely with them around unified governance, Apache Atlas, advancing Atlas in the enterprise. And so, it's a lot of dimensions to the relationship, but I can tell you since I was on theCUBE a week ago with Rob Bearden, client response has been amazing. Rob and I have done a number of client visits together, and clients see the value of unlocking insights in their Hadoop data, and they love this, which is great. >> Now, I mean, the Hadoop distro, I mean early on you got into that business, just, you had to do it. You had to be relevant, you want to be part of the community, and a number of folks did that. But it's really sort of best left to a few guys who want to do that, and Apache open source is really, I think, the way to go there. Let's talk about Munich. You guys chose this venue. There's a lot of talk about GDPR, you've got some announcements around unified government, but why Munich? >> So, there's something interesting that I see happening in the market. So first of all, you look at the last five years. There's only 10 companies in the world that have outperformed the S&P 500, in each of those five years. And we started digging into who those companies are and what they do. They are all applying data science and machine learning at scale to drive their business. And so, something's happening in the market. That's what leaders are doing. And I look at what's happening in Europe, and I say, I don't see the European market being that aggressive yet around data science, machine learning, how you apply data for competitive advantage, so we wanted to come do this in Munich. And it's a bit of a wake-up call, almost, to say hey, this is what's happening. We want to encourage clients across Europe to think about how do they start to do something now. >> Yeah, of course, GDPR is also a hook. The European Union and you guys have made some talk about that, you've got some keynotes today, and some breakout sessions that are discussing that, but talk about the two announcements that you guys made. There's one on DB2, there's another one around unified governance, what do those mean for clients? >> Yeah, sure, so first of all on GDPR, it's interesting to me, it's kind of the inverse of Y2K, which is there's very little hype, but there's huge ramifications. And Y2K was kind of the opposite. So look, it's coming, May 2018, clients have to be GDPR-compliant. And there's a misconception in the market that that only impacts companies in Europe. It actually impacts any company that does any type of business in Europe. So, it impacts everybody. So we are announcing a platform for unified governance that makes sure clients are GDPR-compliant. We've integrated software technology across analytics, IBM security, some of the assets from the Promontory acquisition that IBM did last year, and we are delivering the only platform for unified governance. And that's what clients need to be GDPR-compliant. The second piece is data has to become a lot simpler. As you think about my comment, who's leading the market today? Data's hard, and so we're trying to make data dramatically simpler. And so for example, with DB2, what we're announcing is you can download and get started using DB2 in 15 minutes or less, and anybody can do it. Even you can do it, Dave, which is amazing. >> Dave: (laughs) >> For the first time ever, you can-- >> We'll test that, Rob. >> Let's go test that. I would love to see you do it, because I guarantee you can. Even my son can do it. I had my son do it this weekend before I came here, because I wanted to see how simple it was. So that announcement is really about bringing, or introducing a new era of simplicity to data and analytics. We call it Download And Go. We started with SPSS, we did that back in March. Now we're bringing Download And Go to DB2, and to our governance catalog. So the idea is make data really simple for enterprises. >> You had a community edition previous to this, correct? There was-- >> Rob: We did, but it wasn't this easy. >> Wasn't this simple, okay. >> Not anybody could do it, and I want to make it so anybody can do it. >> Is simplicity, the rate of simplicity, the only differentiator of the latest edition, or I believe you have Kubernetes support now with this new addition, can you describe what that involves? >> Yeah, sure, so there's two main things that are new functionally-wise, Jim, to your point. So one is, look, we're big supporters of Kubernetes. And as we are helping clients build out private clouds, the best answer for that in our mind is Kubernetes, and so when we released Data Science Experience for Private Cloud earlier this quarter, that was on Kubernetes, extending that now to other parts of the portfolio. The other thing we're doing with DB2 is we're extending JSON support for DB2. So think of it as, you're working in a relational environment, now just through SQL you can integrate with non-relational environments, JSON, documents, any type of no-SQL environment. So we're finally bringing to fruition this idea of a data fabric, which is I can access all my data from a single interface, and that's pretty powerful for clients. >> Yeah, more cloud data development. Rob, I wonder if you can, we can go back to the machine learning, one of the core focuses of this particular event and the announcements you're making. Back in the fall, IBM made an announcement of Watson machine learning, for IBM Cloud, and World of Watson. In February, you made an announcement of IBM machine learning for the z platform. What are the machine learning announcements at this particular event, and can you sort of connect the dots in terms of where you're going, in terms of what sort of innovations are you driving into your machine learning portfolio going forward? >> I have a fundamental belief that machine learning is best when it's brought to the data. So, we started with, like you said, Watson machine learning on IBM Cloud, and then we said well, what's the next big corpus of data in the world? That's an easy answer, it's the mainframe, that's where all the world's transactional data sits, so we did that. Last week with the Hortonworks announcement, we said we're bringing machine learning to Hadoop, so we've kind of covered all the landscape of where data is. Now, the next step is about how do we bring a community into this? And the way that you do that is we don't dictate a language, we don't dictate a framework. So if you want to work with IBM on machine learning, or in Data Science Experience, you choose your language. Python, great. Scala or Java, you pick whatever language you want. You pick whatever machine learning framework you want, we're not trying to dictate that because there's different preferences in the market, so what we're really talking about here this week in Munich is this idea of an open platform for data science and machine learning. And we think that is going to bring a lot of people to the table. >> And with open, one thing, with open platform in mind, one thing to me that is conspicuously missing from the announcement today, correct me if I'm wrong, is any indication that you're bringing support for the deep learning frameworks like TensorFlow into this overall machine learning environment. Am I wrong? I know you have Power AI. Is there a piece of Power AI in these announcements today? >> So, stay tuned on that. We are, it takes some time to do that right, and we are doing that. But we want to optimize so that you can do machine learning with GPU acceleration on Power AI, so stay tuned on that one. But we are supporting multiple frameworks, so if you want to use TensorFlow, that's great. If you want to use Caffe, that's great. If you want to use Theano, that's great. That is our approach here. We're going to allow you to decide what's the best framework for you. >> So as you look forward, maybe it's a question for you, Jim, but Rob I'd love you to chime in. What does that mean for businesses? I mean, is it just more automation, more capabilities as you evolve that timeline, without divulging any sort of secrets? What do you think, Jim? Or do you want me to ask-- >> What do I think, what do I think you're doing? >> No, you ask about deep learning, like, okay, that's, I don't see that, Rob says okay, stay tuned. What does it mean for a business, that, if like-- >> Yeah. >> If I'm planning my roadmap, what does that mean for me in terms of how I should think about the capabilities going forward? >> Yeah, well what it means for a business, first of all, is what they're going, they're using deep learning for, is doing things like video analytics, and speech analytics and more of the challenges involving convolution of neural networks to do pattern recognition on complex data objects for things like connected cars, and so forth. Those are the kind of things that can be done with deep learning. >> Okay. And so, Rob, you're talking about here in Europe how the uptick in some of the data orientation has been a little bit slower, so I presume from your standpoint you don't want to over-rotate, to some of these things. But what do you think, I mean, it sounds like there is difference between certainly Europe and those top 10 companies in the S&P, outperforming the S&P 500. What's the barrier, is it just an understanding of how to take advantage of data, is it cultural, what's your sense of this? >> So, to some extent, data science is easy, data culture is really hard. And so I do think that culture's a big piece of it. And the reason we're kind of starting with a focus on machine learning, simplistic view, machine learning is a general-purpose framework. And so it invites a lot of experimentation, a lot of engagement, we're trying to make it easier for people to on-board. As you get to things like deep learning as Jim's describing, that's where the market's going, there's no question. Those tend to be very domain-specific, vertical-type use cases and to some extent, what I see clients struggle with, they say well, I don't know what my use case is. So we're saying, look, okay, start with the basics. A general purpose framework, do some tests, do some iteration, do some experiments, and once you find out what's hunting and what's working, then you can go to a deep learning type of approach. And so I think you'll see an evolution towards that over time, it's not either-or. It's more of a question of sequencing. >> One of the things we've talked to you about on theCUBE in the past, you and others, is that IBM obviously is a big services business. This big data is complicated, but great for services, but one of the challenges that IBM and other companies have had is how do you take that service expertise, codify it to software and scale it at large volumes and make it adoptable? I thought the Watson data platform announcement last fall, I think at the time you called it Data Works, and then so the name evolved, was really a strong attempt to do that, to package a lot of expertise that you guys had developed over the years, maybe even some different software modules, but bring them together in a scalable software package. So is that the right interpretation, how's that going, what's the uptake been like? >> So, it's going incredibly well. What's interesting to me is what everybody remembers from that announcement is the Watson Data Platform, which is a decomposable framework for doing these types of use cases on the IBM cloud. But there was another piece of that announcement that is just as critical, which is we introduced something called the Data First method. And that is the recipe book to say to a client, so given where you are, how do you get to this future on the cloud? And that's the part that people, clients, struggle with, is how do I get from step to step? So with Data First, we said, well look. There's different approaches to this. You can start with governance, you can start with data science, you can start with data management, you can start with visualization, there's different entry points. You figure out the right one for you, and then we help clients through that. And we've made Data First method available to all of our business partners so they can go do that. We work closely with our own consulting business on that, GBS. But that to me is actually the thing from that event that has had, I'd say, the biggest impact on the market, is just helping clients map out an approach, a methodology, to getting on this journey. >> So that was a catalyst, so this is not a sequential process, you can start, you can enter, like you said, wherever you want, and then pick up the other pieces from majority model standpoint? Exactly, because everybody is at a different place in their own life cycle, and so we want to make that flexible. >> I have a question about the clients, the customers' use of Watson Data Platform in a DevOps context. So, are more of your customers looking to use Watson Data Platform to automate more of the stages of the machine learning development and the training and deployment pipeline, and do you see, IBM, do you see yourself taking the platform and evolving it into a more full-fledged automated data science release pipelining tool? Or am I misunderstanding that? >> Rob: No, I think that-- >> Your strategy. >> Rob: You got it right, I would just, I would expand a little bit. So, one is it's a very flexible way to manage data. When you look at the Watson Data Platform, we've got relational stores, we've got column stores, we've got in-memory stores, we've got the whole suite of open-source databases under the composed-IO umbrella, we've got cloud in. So we've delivered a very flexible data layer. Now, in terms of how you apply data science, we say, again, choose your model, choose your language, choose your framework, that's up to you, and we allow clients, many clients start by building models on their private cloud, then we say you can deploy those into the Watson Data Platform, so therefore then they're running on the data that you have as part of that data fabric. So, we're continuing to deliver a very fluid data layer which then you can apply data science, apply machine learning there, and there's a lot of data moving into the Watson Data Platform because clients see that flexibility. >> All right, Rob, we're out of time, but I want to kind of set up the day. We're doing CUBE interviews all morning here, and then we cut over to the main tent. You can get all of this on IBMgo.com, you'll see the schedule. Rob, you've got, you're kicking off a session. We've got Hilary Mason, we've got a breakout session on GDPR, maybe set up the main tent for us. >> Yeah, main tent's going to be exciting. We're going to debunk a lot of misconceptions about data and about what's happening. Marc Altshuller has got a great segment on what he calls the death of correlations, so we've got some pretty engaging stuff. Hilary's got a great piece that she was talking to me about this morning. It's going to be interesting. We think it's going to provoke some thought and ultimately provoke action, and that's the intent of this week. >> Excellent, well Rob, thanks again for coming to theCUBE. It's always a pleasure to see you. >> Rob: Thanks, guys, great to see you. >> You're welcome; all right, keep it right there, buddy, We'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from Munich, Fast Track Your Data, right back. (upbeat electronic music)

>> No. Yeah. Wait. >> Hi, everyone, and welcome to the big data. Deep Dive with the Cube on AMC TV. I'm Richard Schlessinger, and I'm here with tech industry entrepreneur and wicked bond analyst Dave Volonte and Silicon Angle CEO and editor in chief John Furrier. For this last segment in our show, we're talking about the future of big data and there aren't two better guys to talk about that you and glad that you guys were here. Let me sort of tee up the this conversation a little bit with a video that we did. Because the results of big data leveraging are only as good as the data itself. There has to be trust that the data is true and accurate and as unbiased as possible. So AMC TV addressed that issue, and we're just trying to sort of keep the dialogue going with this spot. >> We live in a world that is in a constant state of transformation, political natural transformation that has many faces, many consequences. A world overflowing with information with the potential to improve the lives of millions with prospects of nations with generations in the balance way are awakening to the power of big data way trust and together transform our future. >> So, Gentlemen Trust, without that, where are we and how big of an issue is that in the world of big data? Well, you know, the old saying garbage in garbage out in the old days, the single version of the truth was what you were after with data warehousing. And people say that we're further away from a single version of the truth. Now with all this data. But the reality is with big data and these new algorithms you, khun algorithmic Lee, weed out the false positives, get rid of the bad data and mathematically get to the good data a lot faster than you could before. Without a lot of processes around it. The machines can do it for you. So, John, while we were watching that video, you murmured something about how this is the biggest issue. This is cutting edge stuff. This is what I mean. >> Trust, trust issues and trust the trust equation. Right now it is still unknown. It's evolving fast. You see it with social networks, Stevens go viral on the internet and and we live in a system now with mobility and cloud things. Air scaling infinitely, you know, these days and so good day two scales, big and bad data scales being so whether it's a rumor on you here and this is viral or the data data, trust is the most important issue, and sometimes big data can be creepy. So a. This really, really important area. People are watching it on DH. Trust is the most important thing. >> But, you know, you have to earn trust, and we're still sort of at the beginning of this thing. So what has to happen to make sure that you know you don't get the garbage in, so you get the garbage. >> It's iterative and and we're seeing a lot of pilot projects. And then those pilot projects get reworked, and then they spawn into new projects. And so it's an evolution. And as I've said many, many times, it's very early we've talked about, were just barely scratching the surface here. >> It's evolving, too, and the nature of the data is needs to be questioned as well. So what kind of data? For instance, if you don't authorize your data to be viewed, there's all kinds of technical issues around. >> That's one side of it, But the other side of it, I mean, they're bad people out there who would try to influence, Uh, you know what? Whatever conclusions were being drawn by big data programs, >> especially when you think about big data sources. So companies start with their internal data, and they know that pretty well. They know where the warts are. They know how to manipulate. It's when they start bringing in outside data that this gets a lot fuzzier. >> Yeah, it's a problem. And security talk to a guy not long ago who thought that big data could be used to protect big data, that you could use big data techniques to detect anomalies in data that's coming into the system, which is poetic if nothing else, that guys think data has told me that that that's totally happened. It's a good solution. I want to move on because way really want to talk about how this stuff is going to be used. Assuming that these trust issues can be solved on and you know, the best minds in the world are working on this issue to try to figure out how to best, you know, leverage the data, we all produce, which has been measured at five exabytes every two days. You know, somebody made an analogy with, like something. If a bite was a paper clip and you stretched five exabytes worth of paper clips, they would go to the moon or whatever. Anyway, it's a lot of bike. It's a lot of actually, I think that's a lot of fun and back way too many times one hundred thousand times I lost track of my paper. But anyway, the best minds are trying to figure out, you know, howto, you know, maximize that the value that data. And they're doing that not far from here where we sit. Uh, Emmett in a place called C Sale, which was just recently set up, See Sail stands for the computer signs, an artificial intelligence lab. So we went there not long ago. It's just, you know, down the Mass. Pike was an easy trip, and this is what we found. It's fascinating >> Everybody's obviously talking about big data all the time, and you hear it gets used to mean all different types of things. So he thinks we're trying to do in the big data. Is he? Still program is to understand what are the different types of big data that exists in the world? And how do we help people to understand what different problems or fall under the the overall umbrella of big data? She sells the largest interdepartmental laboratory and mitt, so there's about one hundred principal investigators. So that's faculty and sort of senior research scientists. About nine hundred students who are involved, >> basically with big data, almost anything to do with it has to be in a much larger scale than we're used to, and the way it changes that equation is you have to You have to have the hardware and software to do the things you're used to doing. You have to meet them of comedy's a larger size a much larger size >> of times. When people talk about big data, they, I mean, not so much the volume of the data, but that the data, for example, is too complex for their existing data. Processing system to be able to deal with it. So it's I've got information from Social network from Twitter. I've got your information from a person's mobile phone. Maybe I've got information about retail records. Transactions hole Very diverse set of things that need to be combined together. What this clear? It says this is If you added this, credit it to your query, you would remove the dots that you selected. That's part of what we're trying to do here. And big data is he sail on. Our big data effort in general at MIT is toe build a set of software tools that allow people to take all these different data sets, combine them together, asked questions and run algorithms on top of them that allowed him to extracting sight. >> I'm working with it was dragged by NASA, but the purpose of my work right now is Tio Tio. Take data sets within Davis's, and instead of carrying them for table results, you query them, get visualizations. So instead of looking at large sets of numbers and text him or not, you get a picture and gave the motivation Behind that is that humans are really good into pretty pictures. They're not so that interpreting huge tables with big data, that's a really big issue. So this will have scientists tio visualize their data sets more quickly so they can start exploring And, uh, just looking at it faster, because with big data, it's a challenge to be able to visualize an exploiter data. >> I'm here just to proclaim what you already know, which is that the hour of big data has arrived in Massachusetts, and >> it's a very, very exciting time. So Governor Patrick was here just a few weeks ago to announce the Mass Big Data Initiative. And really, I think what he recognizes and is partly what we recognize here is that there's a expertise in the state of Massachusetts in areas that are related to big data, partly because of companies like AMC, as well as a number of other companies in this sort of database analytic space, CMC is a partner in our big data detail, initiatives and big data and See Sale is industry focused initiative that brings companies together to work with Emmet T. Think about it. Big data problems help to understand what big data means for the companies and also to allow the companies to give feedback. Tow us about one of the most important problems for them to be working on and potentially expose our students and give access to these companies to our students. >> I think the future will tell us, and that's hard to say right now, because way haven't done a lot of thinking, and I was interpreting and Big Data Way haven't reached our potential yet, and I just there's just so many things that we can't see right now. >> So one of the things that people tell us that are involved in big data is they have trouble finding the skill sets the data. Science can pick capability and capacity. And so seeing videos like this one of them, it is a new breed of students coming out there. They're growing up in this big data world, and that's critical to keep the big data pipeline flowing. And Jon, you and I have spent a lot of time in the East Coast looking at some of the big data cos it's almost a renaissance for Massachusetts in Cambridge and very exciting to see. Obviously, there's a lot going on the West Coast as well. Yeah, I mean, I'll say, I'm impressed with Emmett and around M I. T. In Cambridge is exploding with young, young new guns coming out of there. The new rock stars, if you will. But in California we're headquartered in Palo Alto. You know we in a chance that we go up close to Google Facebook and Jeff Hammer backer, who will show a video in a second that I interview with him and had dupe some. But he was the first guy a date at Facebook to build the data platform, which now has completely changed Facebook and made it what it is. He's also the co founder of Cloudera The Leader and Had Duke, which we've talked about, and he's the poster child, in my opinion of a data scientist. He's a math geek, but he understands the world problems. It's not just a tech thing. It's a bigger picture. I think that's key. I mean, he knows. He knows that you have to apply this stuff so and the passion that he has. This video from Jeff Hammer Bacher, cofounder of Cloud Ear, Watches Video. But and then the thing walk away is that big data is for everyone, and it's about having the passion. >> Wait. Wait. >> Palmer Bacher Data scientists from Cloudera Cofounder Hacking data Twitter handle Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you. >> So you're known in the industry? I'LL see. Everyone knows you on Twitter. Young Cora heavily follow you there at Facebook. You built the data platform for Facebook. One of the guys mean guys. They're hacking the data over Facebook. Look what happened, right? I mean, the tsunami that Facebook has this amazing co founder Cloudera. You saw the vision on Rommedahl always quotes on the Cube. We've seen the future. No one knows it yet. That was a year and a half ago. Now everyone knows it. So do you feel about that? Is the co founder Cloudera forty million thousand? Funding validation again? More validation. How do you feel? >> Yeah, sure, it's exciting. I think of you as data volumes have grown and as the complexity of data that is collected, collected and analyzed as increase your novel software architectures have emerged on. I think what I'm most excited about is the fact that that software is open source and we're playing a key role in driving where that software is going. And, you know, I think what I'm most excited about. On top of that is the commodification of that software. You know, I'm tired of talking about the container in which you put your data. I think a lot of the creativity is happening in the data collection integration on preparation stage. Esso, I think. You know, there was ah tremendous focus over the past several decades on the modeling aspect of data way really increase the sophistication of our understanding, you know, classification and regression and optimization. And all off the hard court model and it gets done. And now we're seeing Okay, we've got these great tools to use at the end of the pipe. Eso Now, how do we get more data pushed through those those modeling algorithm? So there's a lot of innovative work. So we're thinking at the time how you make money at this or did you just say, Well, let's just go solve the problem and good things will happen. It was it was a lot more the ladder. You know, I didn't leave Facebook to start a company. I just left Facebook because I was ready to do something new. And I knew this was a huge movement and I felt that, you know, it was very gnashing and unfinished a software infrastructure. So when the opportunity Cloudera came along, I really jumped on it. And I've been absolutely blown away by the commercial success we've had s o. I didn't I certainly didn't set out with a master plan about how to extract value from this. My master plan has always been to really drive her duped into the background of enterprise infrastructure. I really wanted to be as obvious of a choice as Lennox and you See you, you're We've talked a lot at this conference and others about, you know, do moving from with fringe to the mainstream commercial enterprises. And all those guys are looking at night J. P. Morgan Chase. Today we're building competitive advantage. We're saving money, those guys, to have a master plan to make money. Does that change the dynamic of what you do on a day to day basis, or is that really exciting to you? Is an entrepreneur? Oh, yeah, for sure. It's exciting. And what we're trying to do is facilitate their master plan, right? Like we wanted way. Want to identify the commonalities and everyone's master plan and then commoditize it so they can avoid the undifferentiated heavy lifting that Jeff Bezos points out. You know where you know? No one should be required, Teo to invest tremendous amounts of money in their container anymore, right? They should really be identifying novel data sources, new algorithms to manipulate that data, the smartest people for using that data. And that's where they should be building their competitive advantage on. We really feel that, you know, we know where the market's going on. We're very confident, our product strategy. And I think over the next few years, you know, you guys are gonna be pretty excited about the stuff we're building, because I know that I'm personally very excited. And yet we're very excited about the competition because number one more people building open source software has never made me angry. >> Yeah, so So, you know, that's kind of market place. So, you know, we're talking about data science building and data science teams. So first tell us Gerald feeling today to science about that. What you're doing that, Todd here, around data science on your team and your goals. And what is a data scientist? I mean, this is not, You know, it's a D B A for her. Do you know what you know, sheriff? Sure. So what's going on? >> Yeah, So, you know, to kind of reflect on the genesis of the term. You know, when we were building out the data team at Facebook, we kind of two classes of analysts. We had data analysts who are more traditional business intelligence. You know, building can reports, performing data, retrieval, queries, doing, you know, lightweight analytics. And then we had research scientists who are often phds and things like sociology or economics or psychology. And they were doing much more of the deep dive, longitudinal, complex modeling exercises. And I really wanted to combine those two things I didn't want to have. Those two folks be separate in the same way that we combined engineering and operations on our date infrastructure group. So I literally just took data analyst and research scientists and put them together and called it data scientist s O. So that's kind of the the origin of the title on then how that's translating what we do at Clyde era. So I've recently hired to folks into a a burgeoning data science group Cloudera. So the way we see the market evolving is that you know the infrastructure is going to be commoditized. Yes, mindset >> to really be a data scientists, and you know what is way should be thinking about it. And there's no real manual. Most people aboard that math skills, economic kinds of disciplines you mentioned. What should someone prepared themselves? How did they? How does someone wanna hire data scientist had, I think form? Yeah, kinds of things. >> Well, I tend to, you know, I played a lot of sports growing up, and there's this phrase of being a gym rat, which is someone who's always in the gym just practicing. Whatever support is that they love. And I find that most data scientists or sort of data rats, they're always there, always going out for having any data. So you're there's a genuine curiosity about seeing what's happening and data that you really can't teach. But in terms of the skills that are required, I didn't really find anyone background to be perfect. Eso actually put together a course at University California, Berkeley, and taught it this spring called Introduction to Data Science, and I'm teaching and teaching it again this coming spring, and they're actually gonna put it into the core curriculum. Uh, in the fall of next year for computer science. >> Right, Jack Harmer. Bakar. Thanks so much for that insight. Great epic talk here on the Cube. Another another epic conversations share with the world Live. Congratulations on the funding. Another forty months. It's great validation. Been congratulations for essentially being part of data science and finding that whole movement Facebook. And and now, with Amaar Awadallah and the team that cloud there, you contend a great job. So congratulations present on all the competition keeping you keeping a fast capitalism, right? Right. Thank >> you. But it's >> okay. It's great, isn't it? That with all these great minds working in this industry, they still can't. We're so early in this that they still can't really define what a data scientist is. Well, what does talk about an industry and its infancy? That's what's so exciting. Everyone has a different definition of what it is, and that that what that means is is that it's everyone I think. Data science represents the new everybody. It could be a housewife. It could be a homemaker to on eighth grader. It doesn't matter if you see an insight and you see something that could be solved. Date is out there, and I think that's the future. And Jeff Hamel could talked about spending all this time and technology with undifferentiated heavy lifting. And I'm excited that we are moving beyond that into essentially the human part of Big Data. And it's going to have a huge impact, as we talked about before on the productivity of organizations and potentially productivity of lives. I mean, look at what we've talked about this this afternoon. We've talked about predicting volcanoes. We've talked about, you know, the medical issues. We've talked about pretty much every aspect of life, and I guess that's really the message of this industry now is that the folks who were managing big data are looking too change pretty much every aspect of life. This is the biggest inflexion point in history of technology that I've ever seen in the sense that it truly affects everything and the data that's generated in the data that machine's generate the data that humans generate, data that forest generate things like everything is generating data. So this's a time where we can actually instrument it. So this is why this massive disruption, this area and disruption We should say the uninitiated is a good thing in this business. Well, creation, entrepreneurship, copies of being found it It's got a great opportunity. Well, I appreciate your time, I unfortunately I think that's going to wrap it up for our big date. A deep dive. John and Dave the Cube guys have been great. I really appreciate you showing up here and, you know, just lending your insights and expertise and all that on DH. I want to thank you the audience for joining us. So you should stay tuned for the ongoing conversation on the Cube and to emcee TV to be informed, inspired and hopefully engaged. I'm Richard Schlessinger. Thank you very much for joining us.

(upbeat music) >> Hello and welcome to this CUBE conversation here presenting the "AWS Startup Showcase: "New Breakthroughs in DevOps, Data Analytics "and Cloud Management Tools" featuring Opsani for the cloud management and migration track here today, I'm your host John Furrier. Today, we're joined by Patrick Conte, Chief Commercial Officer, Opsani. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate you coming on. Future of AI operations. >> Thanks, John. Great to be here. Appreciate being with you. >> So congratulations on all your success being showcased here as part of the Startups Showcase, future of AI operations. You've got the cloud scale happening. A lot of new transitions in this quote digital transformation as cloud scales goes next generation. DevOps revolution as Emily Freeman pointed out in her keynote. What's the problem statement that you guys are focused on? Obviously, AI involves a lot of automation. I can imagine there's a data problem in there somewhere. What's the core problem that you guys are focused on? >> Yeah, it's interesting because there are a lot of companies that focus on trying to help other companies optimize what they're doing in the cloud, whether it's cost or whether it's performance or something else. We felt very strongly that AI was the way to do that. I've got a slide prepared, and maybe we can take a quick look at that, and that'll talk about the three elements or dimensions of the problem. So we think about cloud services and the challenge of delivering cloud services. You've really got three things that customers are trying to solve for. They're trying to solve for performance, they're trying to solve for the best performance, and, ultimately, scalability. I mean, applications are growing really quickly especially in this current timeframe with cloud services and whatnot. They're trying to keep costs under control because certainly, it can get way out of control in the cloud since you don't own the infrastructure, and more importantly than anything else which is why it's at the bottom sort of at the foundation of all this, is they want their applications to be a really a good experience for their customers. So our customer's customer is actually who we're trying to solve this problem for. So what we've done is we've built a platform that uses AI and machine learning to optimize, meaning tune, all of the key parameters of a cloud application. So those are things like the CPU usage, the memory usage, the number of replicas in a Kubernetes or container environment, those kinds of things. It seems like it would be simple just to grab some values and plug 'em in, but it's not. It's actually the combination of them has to be right. Otherwise, you get delays or faults or other problems with the application. >> Andrew, if you can bring that slide back up for a second. I want to just ask one quick question on the problem statement. You got expenditures, performance, customer experience kind of on the sides there. Do you see this tip a certain way depending upon use cases? I mean, is there one thing that jumps out at you, Patrick, from your customer's customer's standpoint? Obviously, customer experience is the outcome. That's the app, whatever. That's whatever we got going on there. >> Sure. >> But is there patterns 'cause you can have good performance, but then budget overruns. Or all of them could be failing. Talk about this dynamic with this triangle. >> Well, without AI, without machine learning, you can solve for one of these, only one, right? So if you want to solve for performance like you said, your costs may overrun, and you're probably not going to have control of the customer experience. If you want to solve for one of the others, you're going to have to sacrifice the other two. With machine learning though, we can actually balance that, and it isn't a perfect balance, and the question you asked is really a great one. Sometimes, you want to over-correct on something. Sometimes, scalability is more important than cost, but what we're going to do because of our machine learning capability, we're going to always make sure that you're never spending more than you should spend, so we're always going to make sure that you have the best cost for whatever the performance and reliability factors that you you want to have are. >> Yeah, I can imagine. Some people leave services on. Happened to us one time. An intern left one of the services on, and like where did that bill come from? So kind of looked back, we had to kind of fix that. There's a ton of action, but I got to ask you, what are customers looking for with you guys? I mean, as they look at Opsani, what you guys are offering, what's different than what other people might be proposing with optimization solutions? >> Sure. Well, why don't we bring up the second slide, and this'll illustrate some of the differences, and we can talk through some of this stuff as well. So really, the area that we play in is called AIOps, and that's sort of a new area, if you will, over the last few years, and really what it means is applying intelligence to your cloud operations, and those cloud operations could be development operations, or they could be production operations. And what this slide is really representing is in the upper slide, that's sort of the way customers experience their DevOps model today. Somebody says we need an application or we need a feature, the developers pull down something from get. They hack an early version of it. They run through some tests. They size it whatever way they know that it won't fail, and then they throw it over to the SREs to try to tune it before they shove it out into production, but nobody really sizes it properly. It's not optimized, and so it's not tuned either. When it goes into production, it's just the first combination of settings that work. So what happens is undoubtedly, there's some type of a problem, a fault or a delay, or you push new code, or there's a change in traffic. Something happens, and then, you've got to figure out what the heck. So what happens then is you use your tools. First thing you do is you over-provision everything. That's what everybody does, they over-provision and try to soak up the problem. But that doesn't solve it because now, your costs are going crazy. You've got to go back and find out and try as best you can to get root cause. You go back to the tests, and you're trying to find something in the test phase that might be an indicator. Eventually your developers have to hack a hot fix, and the conveyor belt sort of keeps on going. We've tested this model on every single customer that we've spoken to, and they've all said this is what they experience on a day-to-day basis. Now, if we can go back to the side, let's talk about the second part which is what we do and what makes us different. So on the bottom of this slide, you'll see it's really a shift-left model. What we do is we plug in in the production phase, and as I mentioned earlier, what we're doing is we're tuning all those cloud parameters. We're tuning the CPU, the memory, the Replicas, all those kinds of things. We're tuning them all in concert, and we're doing it at machine speed, so that's how the customer gets the best performance, the best reliability at the best cost. That's the way we're able to achieve that is because we're iterating this thing in machine speed, but there's one other place where we plug in and we help the whole concept of AIOps and DevOps, and that is we can plug in in the test phase as well. And so if you think about it, the DevOps guy can actually not have to over-provision before he throws it over to the SREs. He can actually optimize and find the right size of the application before he sends it through to the SREs, and what this does is collapses the timeframe because it means the SREs don't have to hunt for a working set of parameters. They get one from the DevOps guys when they send it over, and this is how the future of AIOps is being really affected by optimization and what we call autonomous optimization which means that it's happening without humans having to press a button on it. >> John: Andrew, bring that slide back up. I want to just ask another question. Tuning in concert thing is very interesting to me. So how does that work? Are you telegraphing information to the developer from the autonomous workload tuning engine piece? I mean, how does the developer know the right knobs or where does it get that provisioning information? I see the performance lag. I see where you're solving that problem. >> Sure. >> How does that work? >> Yeah, so actually, if we go to the next slide, I'll show you exactly how it works. Okay, so this slide represents the architecture of a typical application environment that we would find ourselves in, and inside the dotted line is the customer's application namespace. That's where the app is. And so, it's got a bunch of pods. It's got a horizontal pod. It's got something for replication, probably an HPA. And so, what we do is we install inside that namespace two small instances. One is a tuning pod which some people call a canary, and that tuning pod joins the rest of the pods, but it's not part of the application. It's actually separate, but it gets the same traffic. We also install somebody we call Servo which is basically an action engine. What Servo does is Servo takes the metrics from whatever the metric system is is collecting all those different settings and whatnot from the working application. It could be something like Prometheus. It could be an Envoy Sidecar, or more likely, it's something like AppDynamics, or we can even collect metrics off of Nginx which is at the front of the service. We can plug into anywhere where those metrics are. We can pull the metrics forward. Once we see the metrics, we send them to our backend. The Opsani SaaS service is our machine learning backend. That's where all the magic happens, and what happens then is that service sees the settings, sends a recommendation to Servo, Servo sends it to the tuning pod, and we tune until we find optimal. And so, that iteration typically takes about 20 steps. It depends on how big the application is and whatnot, how fast those steps take. It could be anywhere from seconds to minutes to 10 to 20 minutes per step, but typically within about 20 steps, we can find optimal, and then we'll come back and we'll say, "Here's optimal, and do you want to "promote this to production," and the customer says, "Yes, I want to promote it to production "because I'm saving a lot of money or because I've gotten "better performance or better reliability." Then, all he has to do is press a button, and all that stuff gets sent right to the production pods, and all of those settings get put into production, and now he's now he's actually saving the money. So that's basically how it works. >> It's kind of like when I want to go to the beach, I look at the weather.com, I check the forecast, and I decide whether I want to go or not. You're getting the data, so you're getting a good look at the information, and then putting that into a policy standpoint. I get that, makes total sense. Can I ask you, if you don't mind, expanding on the performance and reliability and the cost advantage? You mentioned cost. How is that impacting? Give us an example of some performance impact, reliability, and cost impacts. >> Well, let's talk about what those things mean because like a lot of people might have different ideas about what they think those mean. So from a cost standpoint, we're talking about cloud spend ultimately, but it's represented by the settings themselves, so I'm not talking about what deal you cut with AWS or Azure or Google. I'm talking about whatever deal you cut, we're going to save you 30, 50, 70% off of that. So it doesn't really matter what cost you negotiated. What we're talking about is right-sizing the settings for CPU and memory, Replica. Could be Java. It could be garbage collection, time ratios, or heap sizes or things like that. Those are all the kinds of things that we can tune. The thing is most of those settings have an unlimited number of values, and this is why machine learning is important because, if you think about it, even if they only had eight settings or eight values per setting, now you're talking about literally billions of combinations. So to find optimal, you've got to have machine speed to be able to do it, and you have to iterate very, very quickly to make it happen. So that's basically the thing, and that's really one of the things that makes us different from anybody else, and if you put that last slide back up, the architecture slide, for just a second, there's a couple of key words at the bottom of it that I want to want to focus on, continuous. So continuous really means that we're on all the time. We're not plug us in one time, make a change, and then walk away. We're actually always measuring and adjusting, and the reason why this is important is in the modern DevOps world, your traffic level is going to change. You're going to push new code. Things are going to happen that are going to change the basic nature of the software, and you have to be able to tune for those changes. So continuous is very important. Second thing is autonomous. This is designed to take pressure off of the SREs. It's not designed to replace them, but to take the pressure off of them having to check pager all the time and run in and make adjustments, or try to divine or find an adjustment that might be very, very difficult for them to do so. So we're doing it for them, and that scale means that we can solve this for, let's say, one big monolithic application, or we can solve it for literally hundreds of applications and thousands of microservices that make up those applications and tune them all at the same time. So the same platform can be used for all of those. You originally asked about the parameters and the settings. Did I answer the question there? >> You totally did. I mean, the tuning in concert. You mentioned early as a key point. I mean, you're basically tuning the engine. It's not so much negotiating a purchase SaaS discount. It's essentially cost overruns by the engine, either over burning or heating or whatever you want to call it. I mean, basically inefficiency. You're tuning the core engine. >> Exactly so. So the cost thing is I mentioned is due to right-sizing the settings and the number of Replicas. The performance is typically measured via latency, and the reliability is typically measured via error rates. And there's some other measures as well. We have a whole list of them that are in the application itself, but those are the kinds of things that we look for as results. When we do our tuning, we look for reducing error rates, or we look for holding error rates at zero, for example, even if we improve the performance or we improve the cost. So we're looking for the best result, the best combination result, and then a customer can decide if they want to do so to actually over-correct on something. We have the whole concept of guard rail, so if performance is the most important thing, or maybe some customers, cost is the most important thing, they can actually say, "Well, give us the best cost, "and give us the best performance and the best reliability, "but at this cost," and we can then use that as a service-level objective and tune around it. >> Yeah, it reminds me back in the old days when you had filtering white lists of black lists of addresses that can go through, say, a firewall or a device. You have billions of combinations now with machine learning. It's essentially scaling the same concept to unbelievable. These guardrails are now in place, and that's super cool and I think really relevant call-out point, Patrick, to kind of highlight that. At this kind of scale, you need machine learning, you need the AI to essentially identify quickly the patterns or combinations that are actually happening so a human doesn't have to waste their time that can be filled by basically a bot at that point. >> So John, there's just one other thing I want to mention around this, and that is one of the things that makes us different from other companies that do optimization. Basically, every other company in the optimization space creates a static recommendation, basically their recommendation engines, and what you get out of that is, let's say it's a manifest of changes, and you hand that to the SREs, and they put it into effect. Well, the fact of the matter is is that the traffic could have changed then. It could have spiked up, or it could have dropped below normal. You could have introduced a new feature or some other code change, and at that point in time, you've already instituted these changes. They may be completely out of date. That's why the continuous nature of what we do is important and different. >> It's funny, even the language that we're using here: network, garbage collection. I mean, you're talking about tuning an engine, am operating system. You're talking about stuff that's moving up the stack to the application layer, hence this new kind of eliminating of these kind of siloed waterfall, as you pointed out in your second slide, is kind of one integrated kind of operating environment. So when you have that or think about the data coming in, and you have to think about the automation just like self-correcting, error-correcting, tuning, garbage collection. These are words that we've kind of kicking around, but at the end of the day, it's an operating system. >> Well in the old days of automobiles, which I remember cause I'm I'm an old guy, if you wanted to tune your engine, you would probably rebuild your carburetor and turn some dials to get the air-oxygen-gas mix right. You'd re-gap your spark plugs. You'd probably make sure your points were right. There'd be four or five key things that you would do. You couldn't do them at the same time unless you had a magic wand. So we're the magic wand that basically, or in modern world, we're sort of that thing you plug in that tunes everything at once within that engine which is all now electronically controlled. So that's the big differences as you think about what we used to do manually, and now, can be done with automation. It can be done much, much faster without humans having to get their fingernails greasy, let's say. >> And I think the dynamic versus static is an interesting point. I want to bring up the SRE which has become a role that's becoming very prominent in the DevOps kind of plus world that's happening. You're seeing this new revolution. The role of the SRE is not just to be there to hold down and do the manual configuration. They had a scale. They're a developer, too. So I think this notion of offloading the SRE from doing manual tasks is another big, important point. Can you just react to that and share more about why the SRE role is so important and why automating that away through when you guys have is important? >> The SRE role is becoming more and more important, just as you said, and the reason is because somebody has to get that application ready for production. The DevOps guys don't do it. That's not their job. Their job is to get the code finished and send it through, and the SREs then have to make sure that that code will work, so they have to find a set of settings that will actually work in production. Once they find that set of settings, the first one they find that works, they'll push it through. It's not optimized at that point in time because they don't have time to try to find optimal, and if you think about it, the difference between a machine learning backend and an army of SREs that work 24-by-seven, we're talking about being able to do the work of many, many SREs that never get tired, that never need to go play video games, to unstress or whatever. We're working all the time. We're always measuring, adjusting. A lot of the companies we talked to do a once-a-month adjustment on their software. So they put an application out, and then they send in their SREs once a month to try to tune the application, and maybe they're using some of these other tools, or maybe they're using just their smarts, but they'll do that once a month. Well, gosh, they've pushed code probably four times during the month, and they probably had a bunch of different spikes and drops in traffic and other things that have happened. So we just want to help them spend their time on making sure that the application is ready for production. Want to make sure that all the other parts of the application are where they should be, and let us worry about tuning CPU, memory, Replica, job instances, and things like that so that they can work on making sure that application gets out and that it can scale, which is really important for them, for their companies to make money is for the apps to scale. >> Well, that's a great insight, Patrick. You mentioned you have a lot of great customers, and certainly if you have your customer base are early adopters, pioneers, and grow big companies because they have DevOps. They know that they're seeing a DevOps engineer and an SRE. Some of the other enterprises that are transforming think the DevOps engineer is the SRE person 'cause they're having to get transformed. So you guys are at the high end and getting now the new enterprises as they come on board to cloud scale. You have a huge uptake in Kubernetes, starting to see the standardization of microservices. People are getting it, so I got to ask you can you give us some examples of your customers, how they're organized, some case studies, who uses you guys, and why they love you? >> Sure. Well, let's bring up the next slide. We've got some customer examples here, and your viewers, our viewers, can probably figure out who these guys are. I can't tell them, but if they go on our website, they can sort of put two and two together, but the first one there is a major financial application SaaS provider, and in this particular case, they were having problems that they couldn't diagnose within the stack. Ultimately, they had to apply automation to it, and what we were able to do for them was give them a huge jump in reliability which was actually the biggest problem that they were having. We gave them 5,000 hours back a month in terms of the application. They were they're having pager duty alerts going off all the time. We actually gave them better performance. We gave them a 10% performance boost, and we dropped their cloud spend for that application by 72%. So in fact, it was an 80-plus % price performance or cost performance improvement that we gave them, and essentially, we helped them tune the entire stack. This was a hybrid environment, so this included VMs as well as more modern architecture. Today, I would say the overwhelming majority of our customers have moved off of the VMs and are in a containerized environment, and even more to the point, Kubernetes which we find just a very, very high percentage of our customers have moved to. So most of the work we're doing today with new customers is around that, and if we look at the second and third examples here, those are examples of that. In the second example, that's a company that develops websites. It's one of the big ones out in the marketplace that, let's say, if you were starting a new business and you wanted a website, they would develop that website for you. So their internal infrastructure is all brand new stuff. It's all Kubernetes, and what we were able to do for them is they were actually getting decent performance. We held their performance at their SLO. We achieved a 100% error-free scenario for them at runtime, and we dropped their cost by 80%. So for them, they needed us to hold-serve, if you will, on performance and reliability and get their costs under control because everything in that, that's a cloud native company. Everything there is cloud cost. So the interesting thing is it took us nine steps because nine of our iterations to actually get to optimal. So it was very, very quick, and there was no integration required. In the first case, we actually had to do a custom integration for an underlying platform that was used for CICD, but with the- >> John: Because of the hybrid, right? >> Patrick: Sorry? >> John: Because it was hybrid, right? >> Patrick: Yes, because it was hybrid, exactly. But within the second one, we just plugged right in, and we were able to tune the Kubernetes environment just as I showed in that architecture slide, and then the third one is one of the leading application performance monitoring companies on the market. They have a bunch of their own internal applications and those use a lot of cloud spend. They're actually running Kubernetes on top of VMs, but we don't have to worry about the VM layer. We just worry about the Kubernetes layer for them, and what we did for them was we gave them a 48% performance improvement in terms of latency and throughput. We dropped their error rates by 90% which is pretty substantial to say the least, and we gave them a 50% cost delta from where they had been. So this is the perfect example of actually being able to deliver on all three things which you can't always do. It has to be, sort of all applications are not created equal. This was one where we were able to actually deliver on all three of the key objectives. We were able to set them up in about 25 minutes from the time we got started, no extra integration, and needless to say, it was a big, happy moment for the developers to be able to go back to their bosses and say, "Hey, we have better performance, "better reliability. "Oh, by the way, we saved you half." >> So depending on the stack situation, you got VMs and Kubernetes on the one side, cloud-native, all Kubernetes, that's dream scenario obviously. Not many people like that. All the new stuff's going cloud-native, so that's ideal, and then the mixed ones, Kubernetes, but no VMs, right? >> Yeah, exactly. So Kubernetes with no VMs, no problem. Kubernetes on top of VMs, no problem, but we don't manage the VMs. We don't manage the underlay at all, in fact. And the other thing is we don't have to go back to the slide, but I think everybody will remember the slide that had the architecture, and on one side was our cloud instance. The only data that's going between the application and our cloud instance are the settings, so there's never any data. There's never any customer data, nothing for PCI, nothing for HIPPA, nothing for GDPR or any of those things. So no personal data, no health data. Nothing is passing back and forth. Just the settings of the containers. >> Patrick, while I got you here 'cause you're such a great, insightful guest, thank you for coming on and showcasing your company. Kubernetes real quick. How prevalent is this mainstream trend is because you're seeing such great examples of performance improvements. SLAs being met, SLOs being met. How real is Kubernetes for the mainstream enterprise as they're starting to use containers to tip their legacy and get into the cloud-native and certainly hybrid and soon to be multi-cloud environment? >> Yeah, I would not say it's dominant yet. Of container environments, I would say it's dominant now, but for all environments, it's not. I think the larger legacy companies are still going through that digital transformation, and so what we do is we catch them at that transformation point, and we can help them develop because as we remember from the AIOps slide, we can plug in at that test level and help them sort of pre-optimize as they're coming through. So we can actually help them be more efficient as they're transforming. The other side of it is the cloud-native companies. So you've got the legacy companies, brick and mortar, who are desperately trying to move to digitization. Then, you've got the ones that are born in the cloud. Most of them aren't on VMs at all. Most of them are on containers right from the get-go, but you do have some in the middle who have started to make a transition, and what they've done is they've taken their native VM environment and they've put Kubernetes on top of it so that way, they don't have to scuttle everything underneath it. >> Great. >> So I would say it's mixed at this point. >> Great business model, helping customers today, and being a bridge to the future. Real quick, what licensing models, how to buy, promotions you have for Amazon Web Services customers? How do people get involved? How do you guys charge? >> The product is licensed as a service, and the typical service is an annual. We license it by application, so let's just say you have an application, and it has 10 microservices. That would be a standard application. We'd have an annual cost for optimizing that application over the course of the year. We have a large application pack, if you will, for let's say applications of 20 services, something like that, and then we also have a platform, what we call Opsani platform, and that is for environments where the customer might have hundreds of applications and-or thousands of services, and we can plug into their deployment platform, something like a harness or Spinnaker or Jenkins or something like that, or we can plug into their their cloud Kubernetes orchestrator, and then we can actually discover the apps and optimize them. So we've got environments for both single apps and for many, many apps, and with the same platform. And yes, thanks for reminding me. We do have a promotion for for our AWS viewers. If you reference this presentation, and you look at the URL there which is opsani.com/awsstartupshowcase, can't forget that, you will, number one, get a free trial of our software. If you optimize one of your own applications, we're going to give you an Oculus set of goggles, the augmented reality goggles. And we have one other promotion for your viewers and for our joint customers here, and that is if you buy an annual license, you're going to get actually 15 months. So that's what we're putting on the table. It's actually a pretty good deal. The Oculus isn't contingent. That's a promotion. It's contingent on you actually optimizing one of your own services. So it's not a synthetic app. It's got to be one of your own apps, but that's what we've got on the table here, and I think it's a pretty good deal, and I hope your guys take us up on it. >> All right, great. Get Oculus Rift for optimizing one of your apps and 15 months for the price of 12. Patrick, thank you for coming on and sharing the future of AIOps with you guys. Great product, bridge to the future, solving a lot of problems. A lot of use cases there. Congratulations on your success. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you so much. This has been excellent, and I really appreciate it. >> Hey, thanks for sharing. I'm John Furrier, your host with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent Executive Summit 2020 sponsored by Accenture and AWS. What? Welcome, everyone to the Cube Virtual and our coverage of the Accenture Executive Summit, part of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. Today we're talking about the power of three. And what happens when you bring together the scientific know how of a global bias Bio pharmaceutical powerhouse in Takeda, a leading cloud services provider in AWS and Accenture's ability to innovate, execute and deliver innovation, Joining me to talk about these things we have Aaron. Sorry. Arjun, baby. He is the senior managing director and chairman of Accenture's Diamond Leadership Council. Welcome margin, you Carl Hick. He is the chief digital and information officer at Takeda. >>Pleasure to be here. Thank you. Rebecca >>and Brian Bowen, global director and head of the Accenture AWS Business Group at Amazon Web services. Thanks so much for coming. Thank you. So, as I said, we're talking today about this relationship between your three organizations. Carl, I want to talk with you. I know you're at the beginning of your cloud journey. What was the compelling reason Why? Why I moved to the cloud and why now? >>Yeah. No, thank you for the question. So you know as ah, bio pharmaceutical leader were committed toe bringing better health and a brighter future to our patients. We're doing that by translating science and toe some really innovative and life transporting therapies. But throughout, you know, we believe that there's, ah responsible use of technology of data and of innovation. And those three ingredients air really key to helping us deliver on that promise. And so, you know, while I think I'll call it this Cloud Journeys already has always been a part of our strategy. Andi have made some pretty steady progress over the last years with a number of local it diverse approaches to the digital in AI. We just weren't seeing the impact at scale that we wanted to see. Andi, I think that you know, there's a there's a need ultimately to accelerate and broaden that shift. And, you know, we were commenting on this earlier, but there's, you know, it's been highlighted by a number of factors. One of those has been certainly a number of the large acquisitions we've made Shire being the most pressing example, but also the global pandemic. Both of those highlight the need for us to move faster at the speed of cloud ultimately on. So we started thinking outside of the box because it was taking us too long and we decided to leverage the strategic partner model on. It's giving us a chance to think about our challenges very differently. We call this the power of three on. Ultimately, our focus is singularly on our patients. I mean, they're waiting for us. We need Thio. Get there faster. It can take years. And so I think that there is a focus on innovation at a rapid speed so we can move ultimately from treating conditions to keeping people healthy. >>So as you are embarking on this journey, what are some of the insights you want to share about? About what you're seeing so far? >>Yeah. No, it's a great question. So I mean, look, maybe right before I highlight some of the key insights, I would say that, you know, with Cloud now as the as a launchpad for innovation, you know, our vision all along has been that in less than 10 years we want every single to Kito associate. We're employees to be empowered by an AI assistant. And I think that, you know that's gonna help us make faster, better decisions that will help us. Uh, fundamentally, you know, deliver transformative therapies and better experiences to to that ecosystem, to our patients, to positions to payers, etcetera much faster than we previously thought possible. Um, and I think that technologies like cloud and edge computing together with a very powerful or call it data fabric is gonna help us to create this this really time. I'll call it the digital ecosystem. The data has to flow ultimately seamlessly between our patients and providers or partners or researchers. Etcetera. Uh, and so we've been thinking about this, Uh, call it. We call it sort of this pyramid. Um, that helps us describe our vision on a lot of it has to do with ultimately modernizing the foundation, modernizing and re architect ing the platforms that drive the company, heightening our focus on data, which means that there's an accelerated shift towards enterprise data platforms and digital products. And then, ultimately, a, you know, really an engine for innovation. Sitting at the very top, um, and So I think with that, you know, there's a few different I'll call it insights that you know are quickly kind of come zooming into focus. I would say one is this need to collaborate very differently. Um, you know, not only internally, but you know, how do we define ultimately and build a connected digital ecosystem with the right partners and technologies? Externally, I think the second component that maybe people don't think as much about but, you know, I find critically important is for us to find ways of really transforming our culture. We have to unlock talent and shift the culture, certainly as a large biopharmaceutical, very differently. And then, lastly, you've touched on it already. Which is, you know, innovation at the speed of cloud. How do we re imagine that you know how Doe ideas go from getting tested in months? That kind of getting tested in days, you know, how do we collaborate very differently on So I think those air three, perhaps of the larger chocolate insights that you know the three of us are spending a lot of time thinking about right now. >>So, Arjun, I want to bring you into this conversation a little bit. Let's let's delve into those a bit. Talk first about the collaboration that Carl was referencing there. How how have you seen that it is enabling colleagues and teams to communicate differently, interact in new and different ways, both internally and externally. As Carl said, >>No, thank you for that. And I've got to give called a lot of credit because as we started to think about this journey, it was clear was a bold ambition. It was, uh, something that, you know, we had all to do differently. And so the concept of the power of three that Karl has constructed has become a label for us as a way to think about what are we going to do to collectively drive this journey forward? And to me, the unique ways of collaboration means three things. The first one is that what is expected is that the three parties they're going to come together, and it's more than just the sum of our resource is, and by that I mean that we have to bring all of ourselves all of our collective capabilities as an example. Amazon has amazing supply chain capabilities there. One of the best at supply chain. So in addition to Resource is when we have supply chain innovations, that's something that they're bringing in addition to just talent and assets. Similarly, for Accenture, right, we do a lot in the talent space. So how do we bring our thinking as to how we apply best practices for talent to this partnership? So as we think about this, so that's that's the first one. The second one is about shared success. Very early on in this partnership, we started to build some foundations and actually develop seven principles that all of us would look at it as the basis for this success shared success model. And we continue to hold that sort of in the forefront as we think about this collaboration. And maybe the third thing I would say is this one team mindset. So whether it's the three of our CEO's that get together every couple of months to think about this partnership or it is the governance model that Karl has put together, which has all three parties in the governance and every level of leadership, we always think about this as a collective group so that we can keep that front and center. And what this, I think, ultimately has enabled us to do Is it allowed us to move its speed, be more flexible and ultimately all be looking at the target the same way the North south? The same way. >>Brian. What? What about you? What have you observed? What are you thinking about? In terms of how this is helping teams collaborate differently? >>Yeah, absolutely. And Georgia made some great points there. And I think if you really think about what he's talking about, it's that diversity of talent, diversity of skill and viewpoint and even culture. Right? And so we see that in the power of three. And I think if we drilled down into what we see at Takeda and frankly, Takeda was really, I think, pretty visionary and on their way here, right, and taking this kind of cross functional approach and applying it to how they operate day to day. So moving from a more functional view of the world to more of a product oriented view of the world, right? So when you think about, we're gonna be organized around a product or service or capability that we're gonna provide to our customers are patients or donors. In this case, it implies a different structure, although altogether in a different way of thinking. Right, because now you've got technical people in business experts and marketing experts all working together in This is sort of a cross collaboration, and what's great about that is it's really the only way to succeed with Cloud, right, because the old ways of thinking where you've got application people in infrastructure, people and business people is sub optimal, right, because we can all access this tools and capabilities. And the best way to do that isn't across kind of a cross collaborative way. And so this is product oriented mindset of Takeda was already on, I think is allowed us to move faster in those areas. >>Carl, I wanna go back to this idea of unlocking talent and culture, and this is something that both Brian and origin have talked about. Two people are are an essential part of their at the heart of your organization. How will their experience of work change and how are you helping reimagine and reinforce a strong organizational culture, particularly at this time when so many people are working remotely. >>Yeah, that's a great question. And it's something that, you know, I think we all have to think a lot about. I mean, I think, you know, driving this this call this this digital and data kind of capability building takes a lot of a lot of thinking. So I mean, there's a few different elements in terms of how we're tackling this one is we're recognizing. And it's not just for the technology organization or for those actors that that we're innovating with. But it's really across, you know, all of Takeda. We're working through ways of raising what I'll call the overall digital leaders literacy of the organization. You know, what are the, You know, what are the skills that are needed almost at a baseline level, even for, ah, global biopharmaceutical company? And how do we deploy? I'll call it Those learning resource is very broadly, and then secondly, I think that, you know, we're very clear that there's a number of areas where they're very specialized skills that are needed. Uh, my organization is one of those, and so, you know, we're fostering ways in which you know, were very kind of quickly kind of creating avenues, excitement for for associates in that space. So one example specifically is we use, you know, during these very much sort of remote sort of days, we use what we call global it me days, and we set a day aside every single month and this last Friday. Um, you know, we create during that time, it's time for personal development. Um, and we provide active seminars and training on things like, you know, robotic process automation, Data Analytics Cloud. Uh, in this last month, we've been doing this for months and months now, but in his last month, more than 50% of my organization participated. And there's this huge positive shift, both in terms of access and excitement about really harnessing those new skills and being able to apply them on. So I think that that's, you know, 11 element that can be considered. And then thirdly, of course, every organization has to work on. How do you prioritize talent, acquisition and management and competencies that you can't re skill? I mean, there's just some new capabilities that we don't have, And so there's a large focus that I have with our executive team in our CEO and thinking through those critical roles that we need to activate in order kind of thio build on this, uh, this business led cloud transformation and lastly, probably the hardest one. But the one that I'm most jazzed about is really this focus on changing the mindsets and behaviors. Andi, I think there, you know, this is where the power of three is really kind of coming together nicely. E mean, we're working on things like, you know, how do we create this patient obsessed curiosity? Um, and really kind of unlock innovation with a really kind of a growth mindset, Uh, and the level of curiosity that's needed not to just continue to do the same things, but to really challenge the status quo. So that's one big area of focus. We're having the agility toe act just faster. I mean, toe worry less. I guess I would say about kind of the standard chain of command, but how do you make more speedy, more courageous decisions? And this is places where we can emulate the way that ah, partner like AWS works? Or how do we collaborate across the number of boundaries, you know, and I think origin spoke eloquently to a number of partnerships that we can build so we can break down some of these barriers and use these networks. Um, whether it's within our own internal ecosystem or externally, to help to create value faster. So a lot of energy around ways of working we'll have to check back in. But, I mean, we're early in on this mindset and behavioral shift, but a lot of good early momentum. >>Carl, you've given me a good segue to talk to Brian about innovation because you said a lot of the things that I was the customer obsession and this idea of innovating much more quickly. Obviously. Now the world has its eyes on drug development, and we've all learned a lot about it in the past few months. And accelerating drug development is all of is of great interest to all of us. Brian How does a transformation like this help a company's ability to become more agile and more innovative? Add quicker speed to >>Yeah, No, absolutely. And I think some of the things that Karl talked about just now are critical to that. Right? I think, where sometimes you know, folks fall short is they think, you know, we're going to roll out the technology and the technology is going to be the Silver Bullet, where, in fact it is. The culture it is is the talent, and it's the focus on that. That's going to be, you know, the determinant of success. And I will say, You know, in this power of three arrangement, Karl talked a lot about the pyramid, um, talent and culture and that change. And that kind of thinking about that has been a first class citizen since the very beginning. Right? That absolutely is critical for being there. Um and so that's been that's been key. And so we think about innovation at Amazon and AWS, and Carl mentioned some of things that, you know, partner like AWS can bring to the table is we talk a lot about builders, right? So we're kind of obsessive about builders, Onda. We mean what we mean by that is way at Amazon, we hire for builders, we cultivate builders and we like to talk to our customers about it as well. And it also implies a different mindset. Right? When you're a builder, you have that curiosity. You have that ownership. You have that steak and whatever I am creating. I'm going to be a co owner of this product or the service right getting back to that kind of product oriented mindset. And it's not just the technical people or the I t. People who are builders. It is also the business people, as Karl talked about right. So when we start thinking about innovation again, where we see folks kind of get into a little bit of innovation, pilot paralysis is that you can focus on the technology. But if you're not focusing on the talent and the culture and the processes and the mechanisms, you're gonna be putting out technology. But you're not gonna have an organization that's ready to take it and scale and accelerated right, and so that's that's been absolutely critical. So just a couple of things we've been doing with with Takeda indicate, has really been leading the way is think about a mechanism and a process, and it's really been working backwards from the customer, right? In this case again, the patient and the donor. And that was an easy one because a key value of decadas is to be a patient focused biopharmaceutical, right? So that was embedded in their DNA. So that working back from that, that patient, that donor was a key part of that process. And that's really deep in our DNA as well in eccentrics. And so we're able to bring that together. The other one is, is getting used to experimenting and even perhaps failing right and being able to reiterate and fail fast and experiment and understanding that you know some decisions, what we call it at Amazon or to a doors meaning you could go through that door not like what you see and turn around and go back. And cloud really helps there. Because the cost of experimenting and the cost of failure is so much lower than it's ever been. You could do it much faster, and the implications there so much less so just a couple of things that we've been really driving with a kid around innovation that's been really critical. >>Carl, where are you already seeing signs of success? >>Yeah, No, it's a great question. And so we chose, you know, with our focus on innovation to try to unleash maybe the power of data digital in uh, focusing on what I call sort of a maid. And so we chose our plasma derived therapy business. Um and you know, the plasma drive therapy business unit? It develops critical lifesaving therapies for patients with a rare and complex diseases. Um, but what we're doing is by bringing kind of our energy together, we're focusing on creating called State of the art digitally connected donation centers. And we're really modernizing. You know, the donor experience right now we're trying Thio improve. Also, I'll call it the overall Plasma Collection process. And so we've selected a number of uncle at very high speed pilots that were working through right now specifically in this in this area, and we're seeing really great results already on DSO. That's that's one specific area of focus. >>Arjun, I want you to close this out here. Any ideas? Any best practices advice you would have for other pharmaceutical companies that are that are at the early stage of their cloud journey. >>Sorry. Was that for me? >>Yes. Sorry. Urgent? >>Yeah. No, I was breaking up a bit. No, I think the key is what sort of been great for me to see is that when people think about cloud, you know, you always think about infrastructure technology. The reality is that the cloud is really the true enabler for innovation at innovating at scale. And if you think about that, right and all the components that you need, ultimately, that's where the value is for the company, right? Because, yes, you're gonna get some cost synergies, and that's great. But the true value is And how do we transform the organization? The case of Takeda and a life sciences clients, right. We're trying to take a 14 year process of research and development that takes billions of dollars and compress that right. Tremendous amounts of innovation, opportunity. You think about the commercial aspect, lots of innovation can come that the plasma derived therapy is a great example of how we're gonna really innovate to change the trajectory of that business. So I think innovation is at the heart of what most organizations need to do. And the formula the cocktail that Takeda has constructed with this Fuji program really has all the ingredients, um, that are required for that success. >>Great. Well, thank you so much. Arjun, Brian and Carl was really an enlightening conversation. >>Thank you. It's been a lot of >>fun. Thank you. >>Uh, been fun. Thanks, Rebecca. >>And thank you for tuning into the Cube. Virtual is coverage of the Accenture Executive Summit.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube covering HP. Discover Virtual experience Brought to you by HP. >>Welcome to the Cube's coverage of HP Discover 2020 Virtual Experience. I'm Lisa Martin, and I'm pleased to be joined by two guests from HP longtime partner Tech Data. We have calling Blair the vice president of sales and marketing of I. O. T. And Data Solutions and David Smith, H P E Pre Sales Field Solutions are common. And David, Welcome to the Cube. Thanks, Lisa. Great to see. So let's start with the calling. HP and Technical have been partners for over 40 years, but tell our audience a little bit about tech data before we get into the specifics of what you're doing and some of the cool I o. T. Stuff with HP. I >>think that the Tech data is a Fortune 100 distributor. We continued to evolved to be a solutions aggregator in these next generation technology businesses. As you've mentioned, we've been serving the I T distribution markets globally for for 40 plus years, and we're now moving into next generation technologies like Wild Analytics, I O. T and Security bubble Lifecycle Management services. But to be able todo position ourselves with our customer base and the needs of their clients have. So I'm excited to be here today to talk a little bit about what we're doing in I, O. T. And Analytics with David on the HPC side >>and in addition to the 40 plus years of partnership calling that you mentioned that Detected and HP have you've got over 200 plus hp. Resource is David, you're one of those guys in the field. Talk to us about some of the things that you're working on with Channel Partners Table David to enable them, especially during such crazy times of living and now >>absolutely, absolutely so. What we can do is we can provide strong sales and technical enablement if your team, for example, wants to better understand how to position HP portfolio if they require assistance and architect ing a secure performance i o t. Solution. We can help ensure that you're technical team is fully capable of having that conversation, and it's one that they're able to have of confidence, weaken validate the proposed HP solutions with the customers, technical requirements and proposed use case. We can even exist on a customer calls, if it would, would benefit our partner to kind of extend out to that. We also have a a a deep technical bench that Colin can speak to in the OT space toe lean on as well. For so solution is that kind of span into the space beyond where HP typically operates, which would be edge, compute computing and network. Sic security. >>Excellent call and tell me a little bit about Tech Data's investments in I o. T. When did this start? What are you guys doing today? >>Sure, we started in the cloud space. First tackle this opportunity in data center modernization and hybrid cloud. That was about seven years ago. Shortly thereafter we started investing very materially in the security cyber security space. And then we follow that with Data Analytics and then the Internet of things. Now we've been in those spaces with our long term partners for some time. But now that we're seeing this movement to the intelligent edge and a real focus on business outcomes and specialization, we've kind of tracked with the market, and we feel like we've invested a little bit ahead of where the channel is in terms of supporting our ecosystem of partners in this space. >>So the intelligent edge has been growing for quite some time. Poland in the very unique times that we're living in in 2020 how are you seeing that intelligent edge expand even more? And what are some of the pressing opportunities that tech data and HPC i O T solutions together can address? >>So a couple. So the first is a Xai mentioned earlier just data center modernization. And so, in the middle of code 19 and perhaps postcode 19 we're going to see a lot of clients that are really focused on monetizing the things that they've got. But doing so to drive business outcomes. We believe that increasingly, the predominance of use cases and compute and analytics is going to move to the edge. And HP has got a great portfolio for not just on premise high performance computing but also hybrid cloud computing. And then when we get into the edge with edge line and networking with Aruba and devices that need to be a digitized and sense arised, it's a really great partnership. And then what we're able to do also, Lisa, is we've been investing in vertical markets since 2000 and seven, and I've been a long the ride with that team, most all of that way. So we've got deep specialization and healthcare and industrial manufacturing, retail and then public sector. And then the last thing we've kind of turned on here recently just last month is a strategic partnership in the smarter cities space. So we're able to leverage a lot of those vertical market capabilities. Couple that with our HP organization and really drive specialized repeatable solutions in these vertical markets, where we believe increasingly, customers are going to be more interested in a repeatable solutions that can drive quick proof of value proof of concepts with minimal viable what kinds of products. And that's that's kind of the apartment today with RHB Organization and the HP Corporation >>David. Let's double click into some of those of vertical markets that Colin mentioned some of the things that pop into minor healthcare manufacturing. As we know, supply chains have been very challenged during covered. Give us an insight into what you're hearing from channel partners now virtually, but what are some of the things that are pressing importance? >>So from a pressing and important to Collins exact point, and your exact point as well is really it's all about the edge computing space now from a product perspective Azaz Colin had mentioned earlier. HP has their edge line converged systems, which is kind of taking the functionality of OT and edge T Excuse me of OT and I t and combine it into a single edge processing compute solution. You kind of couple that with the ability to configure components such as Tesla GP, use in specific excellent offerings to offer an aid and things like realtime, video processing and analytics. Uh, and a perfect example of this is, ah so for dissing and covert space. If if I need to be able to analyze a group of people to ensure they're staying as far apart as possible or, you know within self distant guidelines, that is where kind of the real time that's like an aspect of things can be taken advantage of same things with with the leveraging cameras where you could actually take temperature detection as as well, so it's really kind of best to think of Edge Lines Solutions is data center computing at the edge kind of transition into the Aruba space. Uh Rubio says offerings aid in the island Security is such a clear pass device inside, which allows for device discovery of network and monitoring of wired and wireless devices. There's also Aruba asset tracking and real time location of solutions, and that's particularly important in the healthcare space as well. If I have a lot of high value assets, things like wheelchairs, things like ventilation devices, where these things low located within my facilities and how can I keep keep track of them? They also, and by that I mean HP. They also kind of leveraging expanse ecosystem of partners. As an example, they leverage thing works allow their i o t solutions as well, when you kind of tying it all together with HP Point. Next to the end, customers provided with comprehensive loyalty solution. >>So, Colin, how ready? Our channel partners and the end user customers to rapidly pivot and start either deploying more technologies at the edge to be able to deliver some of the capabilities that David talked about in terms of analytics and sensors for social distancing. How ready are the channel partners and customers to be able to understand, adopt and execute this technology. >>So I think on the understanding side, I think the partners are there. We've been talking about digital transformation in the channel for a couple of years now, and I think what's happened through the 19 Pandemic is that it's been a real spotlight on the need for those business outcomes to to solve for very specific problems. And that's one of the values that we serve in the channel. So we've got a solution offering that we call our solution factory. And what we do really says is we leverage a process to look outside the industry. At Gartner, Magic Quadrant Solutions forced a Wave G two crowd. You know, top leaders, visionaries and understand What are those solutions that are in demand in these vertical markets that we talked about? And then we do a lot of work with David and his team internally in the HP organization to be able to do that and then build out that reference architectures so that we know that there's a solution that drives a bill of materials and a reference architecture that's going to work that clients are going to need and then we can do it quickly. You know, Tech data. Everything's about being bold, acting now getting scale. And we've got a large ecosystem partners that already have great relationships. So we pride ourselves on being able to identify what are those solutions that we can take to our partners that they can quickly take to their end users where you know we've We've kind of developed out what we think the 70 or 80% of that solution is going to look like. And then we drive point next and other services capabilities to be able to complete that last mile, if you will, of some of the customization. So we're helping them. For those who aren't ready, we're helping them. For those who already have very specific use cases and a practice that they drive with repeatable solutions were coming alongside them and understanding. What can we do? Using a practice builder approach, which is our consultative approach to understand where our partners are going in the market, who their clients are, what skill sets do they have? What supplier affinities do they want to drive? What brand marketing or demand generation support do they need? And that's where we can take some of these solutions, bring them to bear and engage in that consultative engagement to accelerate being ready as, as you rightly say, >>so tech. It has a lot of partners. You in general. You also have a lot of partners in the i o T space calling What? How do you from a marketing hat perspective? How do you describe the differentiation that Tech data and HP ease Iot solutions delivered to the channel to the end user? >>A couple of different things? I think that's that's differentiation. And that's one of the things that we strive for in the channel is to be specialized and to be competitively differentiated. And so the first part, I say to all of my team, Lisa, is you know, whether it's our solution consultants or our technical consultants, our solutions to the developers or the software development team that works my organization. Our goal is to be specialized in such a way that we're having relevant value added conversations not only our channel partners, but also end users of our partners want to bring us into those conversations, and many do. The next is really education and enablement as you would expect. And so there's a lot of things that are specialized in our technical. We drive education certification programs, roadshows, seminars, one of the things that we're seeing a lot of interest now. Lisa is for a digital marketing, and we're driving. Some really need offerings around digital marketing platforms that not only educate our partners but also allow our partners to bring their end users and tour some of this some of these technologies. So whether it's at our Clearwater office, where we've got an I. O T. Solution center, that we we take our partners and their clients through or we're using our facilities Teoh to do executive briefings and ideation as a service that, you know, kind of understanding the art of the possible. With both our resellers and their clients work, we're using our solution. Our solution catalogs that we've built an interactive pdf that allows our partners to understand over 50 solutions that we've got and then be able to identify. Where would they like to bring in David and his team and then my consultants to do that, that deep planning on business development, uh, that we talked about a little bit earlier. >>So the engagement right now is maybe even more important than it has been in a while because it's all hands off and virtual David. Talk to me about some of the engagement and the enablement piece that call and talked about. How are you able to really keep a channel partner and their end user customers engaged and interested in what you're able to deliver through this from New Virtual World? >>That's a great, great question. And we work in conjunction with our marketing teams to make sure that as new technologies and quite in I O. T space as well as within the HP East base as well that that our channel partners are educated and aware that these solutions exist. I know for a fact that for the majority of them you kind of get this consistent bombardment of new technology. But being able to actually have someone go out and explain it and then being able to correspondingly position it's use case and it's functionality and why it would provide value for your end customer is one of the benefits of tech data ads to kind of build upon that previous statement. The fact that We have such a huge portfolio of partners, so you kind of have HP and the edge compute space. But we have so many different partners in the OT space where it's really just a phone call, an email, a Skype message, a way to have that conversation around interoperability and then provide those responses back to our partners. >>Excellent. One more question before we go. Colin for you, A lot of partners. Why HP fry Mt. >>So a couple of reasons? One of the one of the biggest reasons as HP is just a great partner. And so when you look at evaluating I. O. T solutions that tend to be pretty comprehensive in many cases, Lisa it takes 10 or 12 partners to complete a really i o t solution and address that use case that that's in the field. And so when you have a partner like HP who's investing in these programs, investing in demand generation, investing in the spectrum of technology, whether it's hybrid Cloud Data Center, compute storage or your edge devices and Iot gateways, then to be able to contextualize those into what we call market ready solutions in each one of these vertical markets where there's references and there's use cases. And there were coupling education that specific rest of solutions. You know HP can do all of those things, and that's very important. Because in this new world, no one can go it alone anymore. It takes it takes partnerships, and we're all better together. And HP really does embrace that philosophy. And they've been a great partner for us in the Iot space. >>Excellent. Well, Colin and David, thank you so much for joining me today on the Cube Tech data. H p e i o t better together. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure talking with you. >>Thank you. >>Thank you. Lisa. >>And four Collet and David. I am Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube's virtual coverage of HP Discover 2020. Thanks for watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>>live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Splunk dot com. 19. Brought to you by spunk >>Welcome back Everyone's two cubes Live coverage from Las Vegas. Four Splunk dot com 2019 The 10th anniversary of their and user conference I'm John Free host of the key that starts seventh year covering Splunk Riding the wave of Big Data Day three of our three days were winding down. Our show are great to have on next guest Didn't Medoc executive director be Ibis Intelligence? Advanced Data Analytics at Clemson University Big A C C. Football team Everyone knows that. Great stadium. Great to have you on. Thanks for spending the time to come by and on Day three coverage. >>Thanks, John, for having me over. >>So, you know, hospitals, campuses, some use cases just encapsulate the digital opportunities and challenges. But you guys air have that kind of same thing going on. You got students, you got people who work there. You got a I ot or campus to campus is you guys are living the the real life example of physical digital coming together. Tell us about what's going on in your world that Clemson wouldn't your job there. What's your current situation? >>So, like you mentioned, we have a lot of students. So Clemson's about 20,000 undergraduate, children's and 5000 graduate students way faculty and staff. So you're talking about a lot of people every semester. We have new devices coming in. We have to support the entire network infrastructure, our student information systems on and research computing. So way we're focused on how convene make students lives better than experience. Better on how convene facilitated education for them. So way try toe in my role. Specifically, I'm responsible for the advanced eight analytics, the data that we're collecting from our systems. How can we? How can you use that on get more insides for better decision making? So that's that's >>Is a scope university wide, or is it specifically targeted for certain areas? >>So it does interest divide. So we have. We have some key projects going on University wide way, have a project for sure and success. There's a project for space utilization and how how, how we can utilize space and campus more efficiently. And then we're looking at energy energy usage across buildings campus emergency management idea. So we've got a couple of projects, and then Pettersson projects that most hired edge motion overseas work on this father's retention enrollment, graduation rates. How how the academics are. So so we're doing the same thing. >>What's interesting is that the new tagline for Splunk is data to everything. You got a lot of things. Their data. Ah, lot of horizontal use cases. So it seems to me that you have, ah, view and we're kind of talking on camera before we went live here was Dana is a fluid situation is not like just a subsystem. It's gotta be every native everywhere in the organization on touched, touches everything. How do you guys look at the data? Because you want to harness the data? Because data getting gathering on, say, energy. Your specialization might be great data to look at endpoint protection, for instance. I don't know. I'm making it up, but data needs to be workable. Cross. How do you view that? What's what's the state of the art thinking around data everywhere? >>So the key thing is, we've got so many IOC's. We've got so many sensors, we've got so many servers, it's it's hard when you work with different technologies to sort of integrate all of them on in the industry that have bean Some some software companies that try to view themselves as being deking, but really the way to dress it does you look at each system, you look at how you can integrate all of that, all of that data without being deking. So you basically analyze the data from different systems. You figured out a way to get it into a place where you can analyze it on, then make decisions based on that. So so that's essentially what we've been focused on. Working on >>Splunk role in all this is because one of things that we've been doing spot I've been falling spunk for a long time in a very fascinated with law. How they take log files and make make value out of that. And their vision now is that Grew is grow is they're enabling a lot of value of the data which I love. I think it's a mission that's notable, relevant and certainly gonna help a lot of use cases. But their success has been about just dumping data on display and then getting value out of it. How does that translate into this kind of data space that you're looking at, because does it work across all areas? What should what specifically are you guys doing with Splunk and you talk about the case. >>So we're looking at it as a platform, like, how can we provide ah self service platform toe analysts who can who can go into system, analyze the data way not We're not focusing on a specific technology, so our platform is built up of multiple technologies. We have tableau for visual analytics. We're also using Splunk. We also have a data warehouse. We've got a lot of databases. We have a Kafka infrastructure. So how can we integrate all of these tools and give give the choice to the people to use the tools, the place where we really see strong helping us? Originally in our journey when we started, our network team used to long for getting log data from switches. It started off troubleshooting exercise of a switch went down. You know what was wrong with it? Eventually we pulled in all for server logs. That's where security guard interested apart from the traditional idea of monitoring security, saw value in the data on. And then we talked about the whole ecosystem. That that's one provides. It gives you a way to bring in data withdrawal based access control so you can have data in a read only state that you can change when it's in the system and then give access to people to a specific set of data. So so that's that's really game changing, even for us. Like having having people be comfortable to opening data to two analysts for so that they can make better decisions. That's that's the key with a lot of product announcements made during dot com, I think the exciting thing is it's Nargis, the data that you index and spunk anymore, especially with the integration with With Dew and s three. You don't have to bring in your data in response. So even if you have your data sitting in history, our audio do cluster, you can just use the data fabric search and Sarge across all your data sets. And from what I hear that are gonna be more integrations that are gonna be added to the tool. So >>that's awesome. Well, that's a good use. Case shows that they're thinking about it. I got to ask you about Clemson to get into some of the things that you guys do in knowing Clemson. You guys have a lot of new things. You do your university here, building stuff here, you got people doing research. So you guys are bringing on new stuff, The network, a lot of new technology. Is there security concerns in terms of that, How do you guys handle that? Because you want to encourage innovation, students and faculty at the same time. You want gonna have the data to make sure you get the security without giving away the security secrets are things that you do. How do you look at the data when you got an environment that encourages people to put more stuff on the network to generate more data? Because devices generate data project, create more data. How do you view that? How do you guys handle that? >>So our mission and our goal is not to disrupt the student experience. Eso we want to make it seem less. And as we as we get influx of students every semester, we have way have challenges that the traditional corporate sector doesn't have. If you think about our violence infrastructure. We're talking about 20 25,000 students on campus. They're moving around. When, when? When they move from one class to another, they're switching between different access points. So having a robust infrastructure, how can we? How can we use the data to be more proactive and build infrastructure that's more stable? It also helps us plan for maintenance is S O. We don't destruct. Children's so looking at at key usage patterns. How what time's Our college is more active when our submissions happening when our I. D. Computing service is being access more and then finding out the time, which is gonna be less disruptive, do the students. So that's that's how we what's been >>the biggest learnings and challenges that you've overcome or opportunities that you see with data that Clemson What's the What's the exciting areas and or things that you guys have tripped over on, or what I have learned from? We'll share some experiences of what's going on in there for you, >>So I think Sky's the limit here. Really like that is so much data and so less people in the industry, it's hard to analyze all of the data and make sense of it. And it's not just the people who were doing the analysis. You also need people who understand the data. So the data, the data stores, the data trustees you need you need buy in from them. They're the ones who understand what data looks like, how how it should be structured, how, how, how it can be provided for additional analysis s Oh, that's That's the key thing. What's >>the coolest thing you're working on right now? >>So I'm specifically working on analyzing data from our learning management system canvas. So we're getting data informer snapshots that we're trying to analyze, using multiple technologies for that spunk is one of them. But we're loading the data, looking at at key trends, our colleges interacting, engaging with that elements. How can we drive more adoption? How can we encourage certain colleges and departments, too sort of moved to a digital classroom Gordon delivery experience. >>I just l a mess part of the curriculum in gym or online portion? Or is it integrated into the physical curriculum? >>So it's at this time it's more online, But are we trying to trying to engage more classes and more faculty members to use the elements to deliver content. So >>right online, soon to be integrated in Yeah, you know, I was talking with Dawn on our team from the Cube and some of the slum people this week. Look at this event. This is a physical event. Get physical campuses digitizing. Everything is kind of a nirvana. It's kind of aspiration is not. People aren't really doing 100% but people are envisioning that the physical and digital worlds are coming together. If that happens and it's going to happen at some point, it's a day that problem indeed, Opportunity date is everything right? So what's your vision of that as a professional or someone in the industry and someone dealing with data Clemson Because you can digitize everything, Then you can instrument everything of your instrument, everything you could start creating an official efficiencies and innovations. >>Yes, so the way I think you you structure it very accurately. It's amalgam of the physical world and the digital world as the as the as the world is moving towards using more more of smartphones and digital devices, how how can we improve experience by by analyzing the data on and sort of be behind the scenes without even having the user. The North is what's going on trading expedience. If the first expedience is in good that the user has, they're not going to be inclined to continue using the service that we offer. >>What's your view on security now? Splunk House League has been talking about security for a long time. I think about five years ago we started seeing the radar data. Is driving a lot of the cyber security now is ever Everyone knows that you guys have a lot of endpoints. Security's always a concern. How do you guys view the security of picture with data? How do you guys talk about that internally? How do you guys implement data without giving me a secret? You know, >>way don't have ah ready Good Cyber Security Operation Center. That's run by students on. And they do a tremendous job protecting our environment. Way monitored. A lot of activity that goes on higher I deserve is a is a challenge because way have in the corporate industry, you can you can have a set of devices in the in the higher education world We have students coming in every semester that bringing in new, important devices. It causes some unique set of challenges knowing where devices are getting on the network. If if there's fishing campaigns going on, how can be, How can we protect that environment and those sort of things? >>It is great to have you on. First of all, love to have folks from Clemson ons great great university got a great environment. Great Great conversation. Congratulations on all your success on their final question for you share some stories around some mischief that students do because students or students, you know, they're gonna get on the network and most things down. Like when when I was in school, when we were learning they're all love coding. They're all throwing. Who knows? Kitty scripts out there hosting Blockchain mining algorithms. They gonna cause some creek. Curiosity's gonna cause potentially some issues. Um, can you share some funny or interesting student stories of caught him in the dorm room, but a server in there running a Web farm? Is there any kind of cool experiences you can share? That might be interesting to folks that students have done that have been kind of funny mistress, but innovative. >>So without going into Thio, I just say, Like most universities, we have, we have students and computer science programs and people who were programmers and sort of trying to pursue the security route in the industry. So they, um, way also have a lot of research going on the network on. And sometimes research going on may affect our infrastructure environment. So we tried toe account for those use cases and on silo specific use cases and into a dedicated network. >>So they hit the honeypot a lot. They're freshmen together. I'll go right to the kidding, of course. >>Yes. So way do we do try to protect that environment on Dhe. Makes shooting experience better. >>I know you don't want to give any secrets. Thanks for coming on. I always find a talk tech with you guys. Thanks so much appreciated. Okay. Cube coverage. I'm shot for a year. Day three of spunk dot com for more coverage after this short break

>> From Cambridge, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE covering MIT Chief Data Officer and Information Quality Symposium 2019 brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. (upbeat techno music) >> Hi everybody, welcome back to Cambridge, Massachusetts. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in tech coverage. We go out to the events. We extract the signal from the noise, and we're here at the MIT CDOIQ Conference, Chief Data Officer Information Quality Conference. It is the 13th year here at the Tang building. We've outgrown this building and have to move next year. It's fire marshal full. Gokula Mishra is here. He is the Senior Director of Global Data and Analytics and Supply Chain-- >> Formerly. Former, former Senior Director. >> Former! I'm sorry. It's former Senior Director of Global Data Analytics and Supply Chain at McDonald's. Oh, I didn't know that. I apologize my friend. Well, welcome back to theCUBE. We met when you were at Oracle doing data. So you've left that, you're on to your next big thing. >> Yes, thinking through it. >> Fantastic, now let's start with your career. You've had, so you just recently left McDonald's. I met you when you were at Oracle, so you cut over to the dark side for a while, and then before that, I mean, you've been a practitioner all your life, so take us through sort of your background. >> Yeah, I mean my beginning was really with a company called Tata Burroughs. Those days we did not have a lot of work getting done in India. We used to send people to U.S. so I was one of the pioneers of the whole industry, coming here and working on very interesting projects. But I was lucky to be working on mostly data analytics related work, joined a great company called CS Associates. I did my Master's at Northwestern. In fact, my thesis was intelligent databases. So, building AI into the databases and from there on I have been with Booz Allen, Oracle, HP, TransUnion, I also run my own company, and Sierra Atlantic, which is part of Hitachi, and McDonald's. >> Awesome, so let's talk about use of data. It's evolved dramatically as we know. One of the themes in this conference over the years has been sort of, I said yesterday, the Chief Data Officer role emerged from the ashes of sort of governance, kind of back office information quality compliance, and then ascended with the tailwind of the Big Data meme, and it's kind of come full circle. People are realizing actually to get value out of data, you have to have information quality. So those two worlds have collided together, and you've also seen the ascendancy of the Chief Digital Officer who has really taken a front and center role in some of the more strategic and revenue generating initiatives, and in some ways the Chief Data Officer has been a supporting role to that, providing the quality, providing the compliance, the governance, and the data modeling and analytics, and a component of it. First of all, is that a fair assessment? How do you see the way in which the use of data has evolved over the last 10 years? >> So to me, primarily, the use of data was, in my mind, mostly around financial reporting. So, anything that companies needed to run their company, any metrics they needed, any data they needed. So, if you look at all the reporting that used to happen it's primarily around metrics that are financials, whether it's around finances around operations, finances around marketing effort, finances around reporting if it's a public company reporting to the market. That's where the focus was, and so therefore a lot of the data that was not needed for financial reporting was what we call nowadays dark data. This is data we collect but don't do anything with it. Then, as the capability of the computing, and the storage, and new technologies, and new techniques evolve, and are able to handle more variety and more volume of data, then people quickly realize how much potential they have in the other data outside of the financial reporting data that they can utilize too. So, some of the pioneers leverage that and actually improved a lot in their efficiency of operations, came out with innovation. You know, GE comes to mind as one of the companies that actually leverage data early on, and number of other companies. Obviously, you look at today data has been, it's defining some of the multi-billion dollar company and all they have is data. >> Well, Facebook, Google, Amazon, Microsoft. >> Exactly. >> Apple, I mean Apple obviously makes stuff, but those other companies, they're data companies. I mean largely, and those five companies have the highest market value on the U.S. stock exchange. They've surpassed all the other big leaders, even Berkshire Hathaway. >> So now, what is happening is because the market changes, the forces that are changing the behavior of our consumers and customers, which I talked about which is everyone now is digitally engaging with each other. What that does is all the experiences now are being captured digitally, all the services are being captured digitally, all the products are creating a lot of digital exhaust of data and so now companies have to pay attention to engage with their customers and partners digitally. Therefore, they have to make sure that they're leveraging data and analytics in doing so. The other thing that has changed is the time to decision to the time to act on the data inside that you get is shrinking, and shrinking, and shrinking, so a lot more decision-making is now going real time. Therefore, you have a situation now, you have the capability, you have the technology, you have the data now, you have to make sure that you convert that in what I call programmatic kind of data decision-making. Obviously, there are people involved in more strategic decision-making. So, that's more manual, but at the operational level, it's going more programmatic decision-making. >> Okay, I want to talk, By the way, I've seen a stat, I don't know if you can confirm this, that 80% of the data that's out there today is dark data or it's data that's behind a firewall or not searchable, not open to Google's crawlers. So, there's a lot of value there-- >> So, I would say that percent is declining over time as companies have realized the value of data. So, more and more companies are removing the silos, bringing those dark data out. I think the key to that is companies being able to value their data, and as soon as they are able to value their data, they are able to leverage a lot of the data. I still believe there's a large percent still not used or accessed in companies. >> Well, and of course you talked a lot about data monetization. Doug Laney, who's an expert in that topic, we had Doug on a couple years ago when he, just after, he wrote Infonomics. He was on yesterday. He's got a very detailed prescription as to, he makes strong cases as to why data should be valued like an asset. I don't think anybody really disagrees with that, but then he gave kind of a how-to-do-it, which will, somewhat, make your eyes bleed, but it was really well thought out, as you know. But you talked a lot about data monetization, you talked about a number of ways in which data can contribute to monetization. Revenue, cost reduction, efficiency, risk, and innovation. Revenue and cost is obvious. I mean, that's where the starting point is. Efficiency is interesting. I look at efficiency as kind of a doing more with less but it's sort of a cost reduction, but explain why it's not in the cost bucket, it's different. >> So, it is first starts with doing what we do today cheaper, better, faster, and doing more comes after that because if you don't understand, and data is the way to understand how your current processes work, you will not take the first step. So, to take the first step is to understand how can I do this process faster, and then you focus on cheaper, and then you focus on better. Of course, faster is because of some of the market forces and customer behavior that's driving you to do that process faster. >> Okay, and then the other one was risk reduction. I think that makes a lot of sense here. Actually, let me go back. So, one of the key pieces of it, of efficiency is time to value. So, if you can compress the time, or accelerate the time and you get the value that means more cash in house faster, whether it's cost reduction or-- >> And the other aspect you look at is, can you automate more of the processes, and in that way it can be faster. >> And that hits the income statement as well because you're reducing headcount cost of your, maybe not reducing headcount cost, but you're getting more out of different, out ahead you're reallocating them to more strategic initiatives. Everybody says that but the reality is you hire less people because you just automated. And then, risk reduction, so the degree to which you can lower your expected loss. That's just instead thinking in insurance terms, that's tangible value so certainly to large corporations, but even midsize and small corporations. Innovation, I thought was a good one, but maybe you could use an example of, give us an example of how in your career you've seen data contribute to innovation. >> So, I'll give an example of oil and gas industry. If you look at speed of innovation in the oil and gas industry, they were all paper-based. I don't know how much you know about drilling. A lot of the assets that goes into figuring out where to drill, how to drill, and actually drilling and then taking the oil or gas out, and of course selling it to make money. All of those processes were paper based. So, if you can imagine trying to optimize a paper-based innovation, it's very hard. Not only that, it's very, very by itself because it's on paper, it's in someone's drawer or file. So, it's siloed by design and so one thing that the industry has gone through, they recognize that they have to optimize the processes to be better, to innovate, to find, for example, shale gas was a result output of digitizing the processes because otherwise you can't drill faster, cheaper, better to leverage the shale gas drilling that they did. So, the industry went through actually digitizing a lot of the paper assets. So, they went from not having data to knowingly creating the data that they can use to optimize the process and then in the process they're innovating new ways to drill the oil well cheaper, better, faster. >> In the early days of oil exploration in the U.S. go back to the Osage Indian tribe in northern Oklahoma, and they brilliantly, when they got shuttled around, they pushed him out of Kansas and they negotiated with the U.S. government that they maintain the mineral rights and so they became very, very wealthy. In fact, at one point they were the wealthiest per capita individuals in the entire world, and they used to hold auctions for various drilling rights. So, it was all gut feel, all the oil barons would train in, and they would have an auction, and it was, again, it was gut feel as to which areas were the best, and then of course they evolved, you remember it used to be you drill a little hole, no oil, drill a hole, no oil, drill a hole. >> You know how much that cost? >> Yeah, the expense is enormous right? >> It can vary from 10 to 20 million dollars. >> Just a giant expense. So, now today fast-forward to this century, and you're seeing much more sophisticated-- >> Yeah, I can give you another example in pharmaceutical. They develop new drugs, it's a long process. So, one of the initial process is to figure out what molecules this would be exploring in the next step, and you could have thousand different combination of molecules that could treat a particular condition, and now they with digitization and data analytics, they're able to do this in a virtual world, kind of creating a virtual lab where they can test out thousands of molecules. And then, once they can bring it down to a fewer, then the physical aspect of that starts. Think about innovation really shrinking their processes. >> All right, well I want to say this about clouds. You made the statement in your keynote that how many people out there think cloud is cheaper, or maybe you even said cheap, but cheaper I inferred cheaper than an on-prem, and so it was a loaded question so nobody put their hand up they're afraid, but I put my hand up because we don't have any IT. We used to have IT. It was a nightmare. So, for us it's better but in your experience, I think I'm inferring correctly that you had meant cheaper than on-prem, and certainly we talked to many practitioners who have large systems that when they lift and shift to the cloud, they don't change their operating model, they don't really change anything, they get a bill at the end of the month, and they go "What did this really do for us?" And I think that's what you mean-- >> So what I mean, let me make it clear, is that there are certain use cases that cloud is and, as you saw, that people did raise their hand saying "Yeah, I have use cases where cloud is cheaper." I think you need to look at the whole thing. Cost is one aspect. The flexibility and agility of being able to do things is another aspect. For example, if you have a situation where your stakeholder want to do something for three weeks, and they need five times the computing power, and the data that they are buying from outside to do that experiment. Now, imagine doing that in a physical war. It's going to take a long time just to procure and get the physical boxes, and then you'll be able to do it. In cloud, you can enable that, you can get GPUs depending on what problem we are trying to solve. That's another benefit. You can get the fit for purpose computing environment to that and so there are a lot of flexibility, agility all of that. It's a new way of managing it so people need to pay attention to the cost because it will add to the cost. The other thing I will point out is that if you go to the public cloud, because they make it cheaper, because they have hundreds and thousands of this canned CPU. This much computing power, this much memory, this much disk, this much connectivity, and they build thousands of them, and that's why it's cheaper. Well, if your need is something that's very unique and they don't have it, that's when it becomes a problem. Either you need more of those and the cost will be higher. So, now we are getting to the IOT war. The volume of data is growing so much, and the type of processing that you need to do is becoming more real-time, and you can't just move all this bulk of data, and then bring it back, and move the data back and forth. You need a special type of computing, which is at the, what Amazon calls it, adds computing. And the industry is kind of trying to design it. So, that is an example of hybrid computing evolving out of a cloud or out of the necessity that you need special purpose computing environment to deal with new situations, and all of it can't be in the cloud. >> I mean, I would argue, well I guess Microsoft with Azure Stack was kind of the first, although not really. Now, they're there but I would say Oracle, your former company, was the first one to say "Okay, we're going to put the exact same infrastructure on prem as we have in the public cloud." Oracle, I would say, was the first to truly do that-- >> They were doing hybrid computing. >> You now see Amazon with outposts has done the same, Google kind of has similar approach as Azure, and so it's clear that hybrid is here to stay, at least for some period of time. I think the cloud guys probably believe that ultimately it's all going to go to the cloud. We'll see it's going to be a long, long time before that happens. Okay! I'll give you last thoughts on this conference. You've been here before? Or is this your first one? >> This is my first one. >> Okay, so your takeaways, your thoughts, things you might-- >> I am very impressed. I'm a practitioner and finding so many practitioners coming from so many different backgrounds and industries. It's very, very enlightening to listen to their journey, their story, their learnings in terms of what works and what doesn't work. It is really invaluable. >> Yeah, I tell you this, it's always a highlight of our season and Gokula, thank you very much for coming on theCUBE. It was great to see you. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. All right, keep it right there everybody. We'll be back with our next guest, Dave Vellante. Paul Gillin is in the house. You're watching theCUBE from MIT. Be right back! (upbeat techno music)

>> live from San Francisco, California. It's the key. You covering the IBM chief Data officer? Someone brought to you by IBM. >> We're back at the IBM CDO conference. Fisherman's Worf Worf in San Francisco. You're watching the Cube, the leader in life tech coverage. My name is David Dante. Glenn Finches. Here's the global leader of Big Data Analytics and IBM, and we're pleased to have Mark Clare. He's the head of data enablement at AstraZeneca. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming on my mark. I'm gonna start with this head of data Data Enablement. That's a title that I've never heard before. And I've heard many thousands of titles in the Cube. What is that all about? >> Well, I think it's the credit goes to some of the executives at AstraZeneca when they recruited me. I've been a cheap date officer. Several the major financial institutions, both in the U. S. And in Europe. Um, AstraZeneca wanted to focus on how we actually enable our business is our science areas in our business is so it's not unlike a traditional CDO role, but we focus a lot more on what the enabling functions or processes would be >> So it sounds like driving business value is really the me and then throw. Sorry. >> I've always looked at this role in three functions value, risk and cost. So I think that in any CDO role, you have to look at all three. I think the you'd slide it if you didn't. This one with the title. Obviously, we're looking at quite a bit at the value we will drive across the the firm on how to leverage our date in a different way. >> I love that because you can quantify all three. All right, Glenn. So you're the host of this event. So awesome. I love that little presentation that you gave. So for those you didn't see it, you gave us pay stubs and then you gave us a website and said, Take a picture of the paste up, uploaded, and then you showed how you're working with your clients. Toe. Actually digitize that and compress all kinds of things. Time to mortgage origination. Time to decision. So explain that a little bit. And what's that? What's the tech behind that? And how are people using it? You know, >> for three decades, we've had this OCR technology where you take a piece of paper, you tell the machine what's on the paper. What longitudinal Enter the coordinates are and you feed it into the hope and pray to God that it isn't in there wrong. The form didn't change anything like that. That's what that's way. We've lived for three decades with cognitive and a I, but I read things like the human eye reads things. And so you put the page in and the machine comes back and says, Hey, is this invoice number? Hey, is this so security number? That's how you train it as compared to saying, Here's what it So we use this cognitive digitization capability to grab data that's locked in documents, and then you bring it back to the process so that you can digitally re imagine the process. Now there's been a lot of use of robotics and things like that. I'm kind of taken existing processes, and I'm making them incrementally. Better write This says look, you now have the data of the process. You can re imagine it. However, in fact, the CEO of our client ADP said, Look, I want you to make me a Netflix, not a blood Urbach Blockbuster, right? So So it's a mind shift right to say we'll use this data will read it with a I will digitally re imagine the process. And it usually cuts like 70 or 80% of the cycle time, 50 to 75% of the cost. I mean, it's it's pretty groundbreaking when you see it. >> So markets ahead of data neighborhood. You hear something like that and you're not. You're not myopically focused on one little use case. You're taking a big picture of you doing strategies and trying to develop a broader business cases for the organization. But when you see an example like that and many examples out there, I'm sure the light bulbs go off. So >> I wrote probably 10 years cases down while >> Glenn was talking about you. You do get tactical, Okay, but but But where do you start when you're trying to solve these problems? >> Well, I look att, Glenn's example, And about five and 1/2 years ago, Glenn was one I went to had gone to a global financial service, firms on obviously having scale across dozens of countries, and I had one simple request. Thio Glenn's team as well as a number of other technology companies. I want cognitive intelligence for on data in Just because the process is we've had done for 20 years just wouldn't scale not not its speed across many different languages and cultures. And I now look five and 1/2 years later, and we have beginning of, I would say technology opportunities. When I asked Glenn that question, he was probably the only one that didn't think I had horns coming out of my head, that I was crazy. I mean, some of the leading technology firms thought I was crazy asking for cognitive data management capabilities, and we are five and 1/2 years later and we're seeing a I applied not just on the front end of analytics, but back in the back end of the data management processes themselves started automate. So So I look, you know, there's a concept now coming out day tops on date offices. You think of what Dev Ops is. It's bringing within our data management processes. It's bringing cognitive capabilities to every process step, And what level of automation can we do? Because the, you know, for typical data science experiment 80 to 90% of that work Estate engineering. If I can automate that, then through a date office process, then I could get to incite much faster, but not in scale it and scale a lot more opportunities and have to manually do it. So I I look at presentations and I think, you know, in every aspect of our business, where we clear could we apply >> what you talk about date engineering? You talk about data scientist spending his or her time just cleaning the wrangling data, All the all the not fun stuff exactly plugging in cables back in the infrastructure date. >> You're seeing horror stories right now. I heard from a major academic institution. A client came to them and their data scientists. They had spent several years building. We're spending 99% of their time trying to cleanse and prep data. They were spend 90% cleansing and prepping, and of the remaining 10% 90% of that fixing it where they fix it wrong and the first time so they had 1% of their job doing their job. So this is a huge opportunity. You can start automating more of that and actually refocusing data science on data >> science. So you've been a chief data officer number of financial institutions. You've got this kind of cool title now, which touches on some of the things a CDO might do and your technical. We got a technical background. So when you look a lot of the what Ginny Rometty calls incumbents, call them incumbent Disruptors two years ago at Ivy and think they've got data that has been hardened, you know, in all these projects and use cases and it's locked and people talk about the silos, part of your role is to figure out Okay, how do we get that data out? Leverage. It put it at the core. Is that is that fair? >> Well, and I'm gonna stay away from the word core cause to make core Kenan for kind of legacy processes of building a single repositories single warehouse, which is very time consuming. So I think I can I leave it where it is, but find a wayto to unify it. >> Not physically, exactly what I say. Corny, but actually the court, that's what we need >> to think about is how to do this logically and cream or of Ah unification approach that has speed and agility with it versus the old physical approaches, which took time. And resource is >> so That's a that's a computer science problem that people have been trying to solve for years. Decentralized, distributed, dark detectors, right? And why is it that we're now able Thio Tap your I think it's >> a perfect storm of a I of Cloud, the cloud native of Io ti, because when you think of I o. T, it's a I ot to be successful fabric that can connect millions of devices or millions of sensors. So you'd be paired those three with the investment big data brought in the last seven or eight years and big data to me. Initially, when I started talking to companies in the Valley 10 years ago, the early days of, um, apparatus, what I saw or companies and I could get almost any of the digital companies in the valley they were not. They were using technology to be more agile. They were finding agile data science. Before we call the data signs the map produce and Hadoop, we're just and after almost not an afterthought. But it was just a mechanism to facilitate agility and speed. And so if you look at how we built out all the way up today and all the convergence of all these new technologies, it's a perfect storm to actually innovate differently. >> Well, what was profound about my producing in the dupe? It was like leave the data where it is and shipped five megabytes a code two upended by the data and that you bring up a good point. We've now, we spent 10 years leveraging that at a much lower cost. And you've got the cloud now for scale. And now machine intelligence comes in that you can apply in the data causes. Bob Pityana once told me, Data's plentiful insights aren't Amen to that. So Okay, so this is really interesting discussion. You guys have known each other for a couple of couple of decades. How do you work together toe to solve problems Where what is that conversation like, Do >> you want to start that? >> So, um, first of all, we've never worked together on solving small problems, not commodity problems. We would usually tackle something that someone would say would not be possible. So normally Mark is a change agent wherever he goes. And so he usually goes to a place that wants to fix something or change something in an abnormally short amount of time for an abnormally small amount of money. Right? So what's strange is that we always find that space together. Mark is very judicious about using us as a service is firm toe help accelerate those things. But then also, we build in a plan to transition us away in transition, in him into full ownership. Right. But we usually work together to jump start one of these wicked, hard, wicked, cool things that nobody else >> was. People hate you. At first. They love you. I would end the one >> institution and on I said, OK, we're going to a four step plan. I'm gonna bring the consultants in day one while we find Thailand internally and recruit talent External. That's kind of phases one and two in parallel. And then we're gonna train our talent as we find them, and and Glenn's team will knowledge transfer, and by face for where, Rayna. And you know, that's a model I've done successfully in several organizations. People can. I hated it first because they're not doing it themselves, but they may not have the experience and the skills, and I think as soon as you show your staff you're willing to invest in them and give them the time and exposure. The conversation changes, but it's always a little awkward. At first, I've run heavy attrition, and some organizations at first build the organizations. But the one instance that Glen was referring to, we came in there and they had a 4 1 1 2 1 12 to 15 year plan and the C I O. Looked at me, he says. I'll give you two years. I'm a bad negotiator. I got three years out of it and I got a business case approved by the CEO a week later. It was a significant size business case in five minutes. I didn't have to go back a second or third time, but we said We're gonna do it in three years. Here's how we're gonna scale an organization. We scaled more than 1000 person organization in three years of talent, but we did it in a planned way and in that particular organization, probably a year and 1/2 in, I had a global map of every data and analytics role I need and I could tell you were in the US they set and with what competitors earning what industry and where in India they set and in what industry And when we needed them. We went out and recruited, but it's time to build that. But you know, in any really period, I've worked because I've done this 20 plus years. The talent changes. The location changes someone, but it's always been a challenge to find him. >> I guess it's good to have a deadline. I guess you did not take the chief data officer role in your current position. Explain that. What's what. What's your point of view on on that role and how it's evolved and how it's maybe being used in ways that don't I >> mean, I think that a CDO, um on during the early days, there wasn't a definition of a matter of fact. Every time I get a recruiter, call me all. We have a great CDO row for first time I first thing I asked him, How would you define what you mean by CDO? Because I've never seen it defined the same way into cos it's just that way But I think that the CDO, regardless of institutions, responsibility end in to make sure there's an Indian framework from strategy execution, including all of the governance and compliance components, and that you have ownership of each piece in the organization. CDO most companies doesn't own all of that, but I think they have a responsibility and too many organizations that hasn't occurred. So you always find gaps and each organization somewhere between risk costs and value, in terms of how how they're, how the how the organization's driving data and in my current role. Like I said, I wanted to focus. We want the focus to really be on how we're enabling, and I may be enabling from a risk and compliance standpoint, Justus greatly as I'm enabling a gross perspective on the business or or cost management and cost reductions. We have been successful in several programs for self funding data programs for multi gears. By finding and costs, I've gone in tow several organizations that it had a decade of merger after merger and Data's afterthought in almost any merger. I mean, there's a Data Silas section session tomorrow. It'd be interesting to sit through that because I've found that data data is the afterthought in a lot of mergers. But yet I knew of one large health care company. They've made data core to all of their acquisitions, and they was one the first places they consolidated. And they grew faster by acquisition than any of their competitors. So I think there's a There's a way to do it correctly. But in most companies you go in, you'll find all kinds of legacy silos on duplication, and those are opportunities to, uh, to find really reduce costs and self fund. All the improvements, all the strategic programs you wanted, >> a number inferring from the Indian in the data roll overlaps or maybe better than gaps and data is that thread between cost risk. And it is >> it is. And I've been lucky in my career. I've report toe CEOs. I reported to see Yellows, and I've reported to CEO, so I've I've kind of reported in three different ways, and each of those executives really looked at it a little bit differently. Value obviously is in a CEO's office, you know, compliance. Maurizio owes office and costs was more in the c i o domain, but you know, we had to build a program looking >> at all three. >> You know, I think this topic, though, that we were just talking about how these rules are evolving. I think it's it's natural, because were about 5 2.0. to 7 years into the evolution of the CDO, it might be time for a CDO Um, and you see Maur CEOs moving away from pure policy and compliance Tomb or value enablement. It's a really hard change, and that's why you're starting to Seymour turnover of some of the studios because people who are really good CEOs at policy and risk and things like that might not be the best enablers, right? So I think it's pretty natural evolution. >> Great discussion, guys. We've got to leave it there, They say. Data is the new oil date is more valuable than oil because you could use data to reduce costs to reduce risk. The same data right toe to drive revenue, and you can't put a gallon of oil in your car and a quart of oil in the car quarter in your house of data. We think it's even more valuable. Gentlemen, thank you so much for coming on the cues. Thanks so much. Lot of fun. Thanks. Keep right, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. You're watching the Cube from IBM CDO 2019 right back.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Dell World Technologies here in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight along with my cohost, Stu Miniman. We have two guests for this segment. We have Honore LaBourdette. She is the VP, Global Market Development, Telco Business Group. Welcome, VMware, thank you, sorry. >> Thank you, yes. >> Welcome. And we have Kevin Shatzkamer, Senior VP, Networking and Solutions, Dell EMC. Thank you both so much for coming on the show. >> Our pleasure. >> Thank you. >> So Kevin I want to start with you. There was a big announcement this morning, signing with Orange of France. Tell our viewers a little bit more about this. >> Yeah, sure. So, I think as overall Dell Technologies continues to focus on helping our service providers through what is a very complex transition, both in their business, in their operations, in their technology investments, in the operational skill set gaps, in the business models, the architecture's use cases kind of comes across the board of how their businesses are evolving. What we continue to do is focus on a core set of telecommunication service providers that we can partner with very deeply to help in that transformation and use the knowledge gained through that collaboration as a means to expand the Dell Technologies capabilities globally. So, I think that the belief is that when we help solve problems, it not only benefits the service provider we're working with, it benefits the industry as a whole with the lessons learned, so that we can then contribute back. >> And so far, there's been some enthusiasm about this? >> There certainly has. I think it's been a big day for us. Obviously, the first two days at Dell Technologies World, we're extremely focused on new product introductions across the Dell portfolio, and today, with the opportunity to expand the messaging and announce some of the great things we're doing with partners, we're doing with out customers, and we're doing within the ecosystem, I think we continue to drive a very positive message. >> Honore, the networking component is something that we know service providers have a need and is ever-changing. We've watched that expand greatly in the VMware portfolio over the years. I've done plenty of interviews with telcos talking about things like NFV, network functions virtualization, but the big thing everybody's been talking about, the last couple of years it feels like, is 5G. So, maybe we could start there, but talk a little bit about what you're hearing from service providers and how VMware and VMware plus Dell are helping to meet some of those requirements. >> Sure, well, needless to say, 5G is the topic of every conversation we have with our telecommunication customers, and I think that there's a number of areas around 5G that are most prevalent in those conversations. One is really how does the service provider get a return on investment for the huge amounts of monies that they're investing in this infrastructure, right? So, 5G is a new infrastructure, a new technology, that's going to require a refresh of the entire infrastructure. And so, while they're making all of those investments, and they are doing so very aggressively to have a first-mover advantage, in terms of the first to deliver on a 5G technology, they want to work with vendors who can, in fact, accelerate their time to a return on the investment for that infrastructure. So, many of our conversations are really focused around how can we help these service providers actually accomplish that, right? Not just build out, or take advantage of a software-defined infrastructure and all of the technologies that both Dell and WMware offer to them under the umbrella of the Dell Technology Companies, but also, how can we help them accelerate services that they want to to put on top of the 5G technology? I think one of the key differentiators of 5G over its predecessors is that the industry has recognized that it's going to require partnerships in order for the service providers to really get their return on investment. And that's where the partnership with VMware and with Dell and the work that Kevin and I are doing together to focus on service providing is really anchored, right? It's bringing together those partnerships, so that these telecommunication customers can take advantage of our technology and do it very quickly. >> So, there's a real acknowledgement of the need for partnerships? >> Yes. >> So then, how do you show customers that the VMware-Dell partnership is the right direction? >> Well, needless to say, it's anchored in our technology. Kevin and I have been working together for a number of years now, and our partnership really started out focusing on just making sure that the components of the stack worked as promised, right? That we could deliver a high degree of confidence to our customers that when they software-defined the infrastructure on Dell Technology hardware, and then layered on top of that, their virtual network functions, that it would perform our outperform their legacy, bare-metal, vertical-stack equipment. Over time, however, our partnership has progressed to where we're actually collaborating to bring new technology to market together. And one example of that is the City of Las Vegas. We recently announced a Smart City IoT use case, and that technology, that solution, was co-developed with NTT, Dell EMC, and VMware using VMware software, Dell hardware, as well as Dell Storage, Dell Data Analytics and Intelligence, and NTT's infrastructure and points of presence. >> Yeah, I think there's both a technical reality and an operational reality to the technologies that we speak of, right? The technical reality is that the transformation that the telcos are going through around NFV and the direction toward network edge, edge computing, cloud environments, is really just software-defined data center similar to what we've done on the IT side for a long time. So, the technologies that the telecommunications industry is adopting are the technologies that both Dell EMC and VMware have been working on for a very long time. The operational reality is that just taking what you've done in IT and applying it into a telco network is not sufficient. Understanding of the workloads, how those workloads layer on top of infrastructure, understanding that those workloads are in a transformation of their own, and that virtual network functions were not designed to natively consume and compute. They were designed for network appliances, and that there are still requirements that they drive down to the infrastructure was, I think, where Honore and I have been investing for the last several years, right? How do we complement the broad capabilities of both Dell EMC and VMware in IT virtualization software-defined data center, and bring in telco service provider networking expertise and domain knowledge that we can use to be able to really ramp up and accelerate the partnerships we have in the service provider industry? >> That's great stuff. We actually got to do an interview on the smarter cities earlier this week, and a fascinating discussion to see how there's, Kevin, I like what you laid out there. When I look at this space, scale gets talked about a lot, but you talk to telcos, they have a little bit of a different scale, and the management for these kind of environments is also quite a bit different than if you were talking to the enterprise. Are those some of the key items? Where would you say your focus? >> I also think that even further. That the challenges of scale that have been solved in the public cloud are a different set of challenges than the telco industry is really trying to wrestle with, right? In the public cloud, we're taking about a very small number of facilities, and we can build a homogenous architecture within there. We define a standard server. We replicate that server across a rack, replicate that rack across rows, replicate those rows across a data center. The reality is, as we get further and further towards the edge of the telco network, it looks more heterogeneous, right? I need GPUs for particular instances. I have cloud-native applications. I have virtualized applications that sit inside of VMs. I have native Linux environments. I need to handle dense networking topologies. I have east-west traffic, north-south traffic that I need to take into account. And I think that what we've figured out and what we've learned in automating and orchestrating the public cloud is how to handle hundreds of thousands of things at single-digit number of locations. And what we're talking about here is hundreds of thousands of locations with single-digit number of things. >> And that's another key area of the collaboration between the two groups, in terms of how we deliver value to our telco customers. So, rather than us working in silos and delivering yet another disparate technology for managing the edge, cloud, or all these different locations, we're working together so we can bring a cohesive technology to market for them. >> That's right, I think the infrastructure demands and openness and a willingness to be a productive member of a complex and consistently changing ecosystem, and I think that, obviously, Dell EMC does that in our way. VMware does it in their way, but there's clear recognition that the better capabilities are when we work together to really drive the platform and bring the true capabilities of the broader Dell technologies together. >> So, telcoms is a hugely competitive industry, and as you've talked about, there's a lot of challenges, and it's a real transformative moment for this sector. Can you lay out some of sort of what you're thinking about for after 5G, which as you've said, is a hugely expensive investment for these companies? But sort of post-5G, what are we looking at? What's on their minds of your customers? >> So, I don't know that there's going to be distinct, post-5G event, right? I think that 5G, in and of itself, is going to take some time to roll out and proliferate, to the extent that its predecessors is now deployed across all locations all over the world. I do think that 5G, in addition to the infrastructure technology, or the refresh of that technology, a lot of what is going to happen around 5G is, in fact, the applications and use cases that's going to take advantage of 5G. If we about what 5G is capable of enabling, it doesn't just address consumer applications. 5G also will address enterprise applications. And that opens up a whole world of innovation, and again, applications, partnerships, and vendors coming together, who can really help the service providers put those pieces together and deliver on those applications. There's already talk about 6G, although it's very limited. So, it's easy for me to say what's coming next after 5G will be 6G, but I think that there's still a lot of activity and a lot of innovation that will happen around 5G for some time to come. >> Yeah, we know that standards and the consortiums always have to be working. I was looking at terabit ethernet on the networking side. So, I wanted to help kind of bring this conversation together. If you have maybe a customer example, love if you could share who it is, but if not, give us a little bit of anonymity around what it is to help highlight this partnership. >> Sure, I think Honore shared the City of Las Vegas as a great example of where we're enabling the Smart Cities use case. We can speak to MetTel, in terms of the capabilities of Dell Technologies to be able to transform their NFV offerings and really help them bring NFV to market at scale. We can speak to at least one tier-one service provider in AMIA that is delivering a full-stack offering, in which we extended the capabilities of our Ericsson partnership that both Dell EMC, as well as VMware have, to build a complete stack offering of Ericsson, VMware, as well as Dell EMC. >> Yeah, and to Ericsson, there's some of the edge computing in there. I've talked to them quite a bit about what they're doing on their edge offering. >> Yeah, so I think we have a number of examples that we also can't share as publicly. But we continue to collaborate. I think we're driving fantastic innovation. The industry is responding extremely favorably across the board, and I think that the strategy that we have jointly to not just develop technology, but really change the way we engage with telecommunications organizations and service providers to work with them well before they're ready to deploy technology, and also, help them scale their own operations and understand this transformation is really key to the success here. Because just having the best technology at this inflection point in the industry is not enough. We really have to partner to help them understand how to operationalize and monetize that infrastructure. >> And we do have a number of innovation projects, with regards to the edge and far edge with some of the top-tier service providers, in particular, in the Americas, where we're working together for edge solutions. I've got to hear what this far-edge is in a future conversation, because I thought I was getting my arms around it, but -- >> I know, it was edge, and now it's edge and far-edge. >> That's for Dell Technologies World 2020. >> That's right. >> Honore, Kevin, thank you both so much for coming on theCUBE. >> My pleasure. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> It's a great time. >> You are watching theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World. There's more to come after this. (upbeat music)