>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> New data from ETR's soon to be released April survey, shows a clear deceleration in spending and a more cautious posture from technology buyers. Just this week, we saw sell side downgrades in hardware companies like Dell and HP and revised guidance from high flyer UiPath, citing exposures to Russia, Europe and certain sales execution challenges, but these headlines, we think are a canary in the coal mine. According to ETR analysis and channel checks in theCUBE, the real story is these issues are not isolated. Rather we're seeing signs of caution from buyers across the board in enterprise tech. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we are the bearers of bad news. Don't shoot the messenger. We'll share a first look at fresh data that suggests a tightening in tech spending calling for 6% growth this year which is below our January prediction of 8% for 2022. Now, unfortunately the party may be coming to an end at least for a while. You know, it's really not surprising, right? We've had a two year record run in tech spending and meteoric rises in high flying technology stocks. Hybrid work, equipping and securing remote workers. The forced march to digital that we talk about sometimes. These were all significant tailwinds for tech companies. The NASDAQ peaked late last year and then as you can see in this chart, bottomed in mid-March of 2022, and it made a nice run up through the 29th of last month, but the mini rally appears to be in jeopardy with FED rate hikes, Russia, supply chain challenges. There's a lot of uncertainty so we should expect the C-suite to be saying, hey, wait slow down. Now we don't think the concerns are confined to companies with exposure to Russia and Europe. We think it's more broad based than that and we're seeing caution from technology companies and tech buyers that we think is prudent, given the conditions. You know, looks like the two year party has ended and as my ETR colleague Erik Bradley said, a little hangover shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. So let's get right to the new spending data. I'm limited to what I can share with you today because ETR is in its quiet period and hasn't released full results yet outside of its client base. But, they did put out an alert today and I can share this slide. It shows the expectation on spending growth from more than a thousand CIOs and IT buyers who responded in the most recent survey. It measures their expectations for spending. The key focus areas that I want you to pay attention to in this data are the yellow bars. The most recent survey is the yellow compared to the blue and the gray bars, which are the December and September '21 surveys respectively. And you can see a steep drop from last year in Q1, lowered expectations for Q2 in the far right, a drop from nearly 9% last September to around 6% today. Now you may think a 200 basis point downgrade from our prediction in January of 8% seems somewhat benign, but in a $4 trillion IT market, that's 80 billion coming off the income statements of some tech companies. Now the good news is that 6% growth is still very healthy and higher than pre pandemic spending levels. And the buyers we've talked to this week are saying, look, we're still spending money. We just have to be more circumspect about where and how fast. Now, there were a few other callouts in the ETR data and in my discussions today with Erik Bradley on this. First, it looks like in response to expected supply chain constraints that buyers pulled forward their orders late last year and earlier this year. You remember when we couldn't buy toilet paper, people started the stockpile and it created this rubber banding effect. So we see clear signs of receding momentum in the PC and laptop market. But as we said, this is not isolated to PCs, UiPath's earning guidance confirm this but the story doesn't end there. This isn't isolated to UiPath in our view, rather it's a more based slowdown. The other big sign is spending in outsourced IT which is showing a meaningful deceleration in the last survey, showing a net score drop from 13% in January to 6% today. Net score remember is a measure of the net percentage of customers in the survey that on balance are spending more than last survey. It's derived by subtracting the percent of customers spending less from those spending more. And there's a, that's a 700 basis point drop in three months. This isn't a market where you can't hire enough people. The percent of companies hiring has gone from 10% during the pandemic to 50% today according to recent data from ETR. And we know there's still an acute skills shortage. So you would expect more IT outsourcing, but you don't see that in the data, it's down. And as this quote from Erik Bradley explains, historically, when outsourced IT drops like this, especially in a tight labor market, it's not good news for IT spending. All right, now, the other interesting callout from ETR were some specific company names that appear to be seeing the biggest change in spending momentum. Here's the list of those companies that all have meaningful exposure to Europe. That's really where the focus was. SAP has big exposure to on-premises installations and of course, Europe as well. ServiceNow has European exposure and also broad based exposure in IT in across the globe, especially in the US. Zoom didn't go to the moon, no surprise there given the quasi return to work and Zoom fatigue. McAfee is a bit of a concern because security seemed to be one of those areas, when you look at some of the other data, that is per actually insulated from all the spending caution. Of course we saw the Okta hack and we're going to cover that next week with hopefully some new data from ETR, but generally security's been holding up pretty well. You look at CrowdStrike, you look at Zscaler in particular. Adobe's another company that's had a nice bounce in the last couple of weeks. Accenture, again, speaks to that outsourcing headwinds that we mentioned earlier. And now the Google Cloud platform is a bit of a concern. It's still elevated overall, you know but down and well down in Europe. Under that magic, you know we often show that magic 40% dotted line, that red dotted line of net score anything above that we cite as elevated. Well, some important callouts to hear that you see companies that have Euro exposure. And again, we see this as just not confined to Europe and this is something we're going to pay close attention to and continue to report on in the next several weeks and months. All right, so what should we expect from here? The Ark investment stocks of Cathie Wood fame have been tracking in a downward trend since last November, meaning, you know, these high PE stocks are making lower lows and higher, sorry, lower highs and lower lows since then, right? The trend is not their friend. Investors I talk to are being much more cautious about buying the dip. They're raising cash and being a little bit more patient. You know, traders can trade in this environment but unless you can pay attention to in a minute by minute you're going to get whipsawed. Investors tell me that they're still eyeing big tech even though Apple has been on a recent tear and has some exposure with supply change challenges, they're looking for maybe entry points in, within that chop for Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, and Alphabet. And look, as I've been stressing, 6% spending growth is still very solid. It's a case of resetting the outlook relative to previous expectations. So when you zoom out and look at the growth in data, getting digital right, security investments, automation, cloud, AI containers, all the fundamentals are really strong and they have not changed. They're all powering this new digital economy and we believe it's just prudence versus a shift in the importance of IT. Now, one point of caution is there's a lot of discussion around a shift in global economies. Supply chain uncertainty, persistent semiconductor shortages especially in areas like, you know driver ICs and boring things like parts for displays and analog and micro controllers and power regulators. Stuff that's, you know, just not playing nice these days and wreaking havoc. And this creates uncertainty, which sometimes can pick up momentum in a snowballing effect. And that's something that we're watching closely and we're going to be vigilant reporting to you when we see changes in the data and in our forecast even when we think our forecast are wrong. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks to Alex Merson who does the production and podcasts for Breaking Analysis and Stephanie Chan who provides background research. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight, and all theCUBE writers they help get the word out, and thanks to Rob Hof, our EIC over at SiliconANGLE. Remember I publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. These episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis podcasts. etr.ai that's where you can get access to all this survey data and make your own cuts. It's awesome, check that out. Keep in touch with me. You can email me at dave.vellante@siliconangle.com. You can hit me up on LinkedIn. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE insights powered by ETR. Be safe, stay well, and we'll see you next time. (gentle music)

(gentle music) >> Welcome back to our coverage here on theCUBE of AWS re:Invent 22. We are on day three, starting to wind down, but still a lot of exciting topics to cover here on the AWS Global Showcase, part of the startup program there at AWS. Joining us now, two representatives from LTI Mindtree. You say LTI Mindtree? I thought they were two different companies. Well, they're actually one and the same. Been together just a mere two weeks now. We'll hear more about that from Sid Bohra, who is the Chief Business Officer at LTI Mindtree and Ashish Varerkar, who is the Vice President of Cloud Success at LTI Mindtree. Gentlemen, thanks for being with us here on theCUBE. >> Pleasures all ours. >> Thank you. >> And congratulations. So two weeks in the making in its infancy, still in the honeymoon period, but how's the two weeks been? Everything all right? >> Well, two weeks have been very exciting. >> I'll bet. >> Well, I would say the period prior to that was just as exciting as you can imagine. >> John: Oh, sure. And we are super excited about what the future holds for this company because we truly believe that we have a remarkable opportunity to create value for our clients as one company. >> Well let's talk about LTI Mind tree then a little bit. Ashish, I'll let you carry the ball on this. Tell us about your services, about your core focus, and about those opportunities that Siddharth was just telling us about. >> So I think with the two companies coming together, we have a larger opportunity to like go to market with our end to end business transformation services and leveraging cloud platforms, right? So, and that's what we do. My responsibility particularly is to see to it that what customers are deploying on cloud is aligned to their business outcomes and then take it forward from there. >> Yeah, Vice President of Cloud Success, that gives you a lot of runway, right? Does it not? I mean, how do you define success in the cloud? Because there are a lot of different areas of complexity with which companies are dealing. >> So I think you would agree that in today's scenario, customers are not looking for a platform, right? But they're looking for a platform which can deliver business value. They're looking at business value and resiliency and then at the end, the cost, right? So if you're able to deliver these three things to the customer through the cloud implementation, I think that's success for us. >> Right. We've talked about transformation a lot this week and modernization, right, which is those are two pretty key buzzwords right now we're hearing a lot of. So when you see said, you know, companies come to you and they say, okay, it's time for us to make this commitment. Do they make it generally wholeheartedly? Is there still some trepidation of the unknown? Because there's a lot of, as we've said, complexity to this, it's multidimensional. We can go public, we can go hybrid, we can go multicloud. I mean, we got a lot of flavors. >> Yeah >> Absolutely. >> No, we see a spectrum. There are customers who are very early in the journey of getting onto cloud and are a little uncertain about what value they can get out of it. And on the other end of the spectrum, there are companies who are well into the journey who have understood what are the benefits of truly leveraging cloud who also understand what are the challenges they will face in getting onto the journey. So we get to meet a spectrum of customers, I would say. If you ask me where do bulk of them lie, I would say early in their journey. I would say there are only a handful who have that maturity where they can predict what's exactly going to happen on the cloud journey, what value they will accumulate through the process. So there's a lot of hand holding to be done, a lot of, you know, solving together to be done with our clients. >> You know, it is such a dynamic environment too, right? You have new opportunities that seem to be developed and released on a daily basis, almost, right? There's a large amount of flexibility, I would think, that has to be in place because where you think you're going to go today might not be where you wind up in six months. >> That's true. >> Is that fair? >> Absolutely fair. And I think from that perspective, if you look at the number of services that AWS provides, right? And what customers are looking for is how can they compose their business processes using this multiple services in a very seamless manner. And most of the announcements that we have seen during the re:Invent as well, they're talking about seamless connectivity between their services. They're talking about security, they're talking about creating a data fabric, the data zone that they announced. I think all these things put together, if you're able to kind of connect the dots and drive the business processes, I think that's what we want to do for our customers. >> And the value to AWS, it just can't be underscored enough I would assume, because there's comfort there, there's confidence there. When you bring that to the table as well along with your services, what kind of magnitude are we talking about here? What kind of force do you think? How would you characterize that? >> Well I think, you know, firstly, I would say that most of our engagements are not just services. Ashish and team and the company have invested heavily in building IP that we pair with our services so that we bring non-linearity and more, I would say, certainty to the outcomes that our customers get. And I can share some examples in the course of the conversation, but to answer your question in terms of magnitude, what we are collaborating with AWS on for our clients ranges from helping customers build more resiliency. And I'm talking about life sciences companies build more resiliency in the manufacturing R and D processes. That's so critical. It was even more critical during the pandemic times because we were working with some of the pharma companies who were contributing to the efforts in the pandemic. That's one end of the spectrum. On the other side, we are helping streaming companies and media companies digitize their supply chain, and their supply chains, the media supply chain, so that it is more effective, it's more efficient, it's more real time, again, using the power of the cloud. We are helping pharmaceutical companies drive far greater speed in the R and D processes. We are helping banking companies drive far more compliance in their anti-money laundering efforts and all of those things. So if you look at the magnitude, we judge the magnitude by the business impact that it's creating and we are very excited about what AWS, LTI Mindtree, and the customer are able to create in terms of those business impacts. >> And these are such major decisions. >> That's right. >> For a company, right, to make, and there are a number of factors that come into play here. What are you hearing from the C-Suite with regard to what weighs the most in their mind and is there, is it a matter of, you know, fear missing out? Or is it about trying to stay ahead of your competition, catching up the competition? I mean, generally speaking, you know, where are the, where's the C-Suite weighing in on this? >> I think in the current times, I think there is a certain level of adoption of cloud that's already happened in most enterprises. So most CIOs in the C-suite- >> They already get it. They already get it. >> They kind of get it, but I would say that they're very cagey about a bunch of things. They're very cagey about, am I going to end up spending too much for too little? Am I going to be able to deliver this transformation at the speed that I'm hoping to achieve? What about security? Compliance? What about the cost of running in the cloud? So those are some really important factors that sometimes end up slowing the cloud transformation journeys down because customers end up solving for them or not knowing for them. So while there is a decent amount of awareness about what cloud can do, there are some, a whole bunch of important factors that they continue to solve for as they go down that journey. >> And so what kind of tools do you provide them then? >> Primarily, what we do is, to Siddharth's point, right? So on one end, we want to see to it that we are doing the business transformation and all our cloud journeys start with a business North Star. So we align, we have doubled down on, say, five to six business domains. And for each of these business domains industries, we have created business North Star. For these business North Star, we define the use cases. And these use cases then get lit up through our platform. So what we have done is we have codified everything onto our platform. We call it Infinity. So primarily business processes from level one, level two, level three, level, and then the KPIs which are associated with these business processes, the technical KPIs and the business KPIs, and then tying it back to what you have deployed on cloud. So we have end to end cloud transformation journeys enabled for customers through the business North Star. >> And Infinity is your product. >> Can I add something? >> Please do. Yeah, please. >> Yeah so, you know, Ashish covered the part about demystifying if I were to do this particular cloud initiative, it's not just modernizing the application. This is about demystifying what business benefit will accrue to you. Very rare to find unless you do a very deep dive assessment. But what the platform we built also accelerates, you talked about modernization early in the conversation, accelerates the modernization process by automating a whole bunch of activities that are often manual. It bakes insecurity and compliance into everything it does. It automates a whole bunch of cloud operations including things like finops. So this is a life cycle platform that essentially codifies best practices so that you are not getting success by coincidence, you're getting success by design. So that's really what, that's really how we've approached the topic of realizing the true power of cloud by making sure that it's repeatedly delivered. >> Right. You know, I want to hit on security too because you brought that up just a few moments ago. Obviously, you know, we all, and I'd say we, we can do a better job, right? I mean, there's still problems, there's still challenges, there are a lot of bad actors out there that are staying ahead of the game. So as people come to you, clients come to you, and they raise these security concerns, what's your advice to them in terms of, you know, what kind of environment they're going into and what precautions or protections they can put in place to try to give themselves a little bit of peace of mind about how they're going to operate? >> You want to take it? >> So I think primarily, if you are going to cloud, you are going with an assumption that you are moving out of your firewalls, right? You're putting something out of your network area. So and from that perspective, the parameter security from the cloud perspective is very, very important. And then each and every service or the interactions between the services and what you integrate out of your organization, everything needs to be secured through the right guard rates. And we integrate all those things into our platform so that whatever new apps that get deployed or build or any cost product that gets deployed on cloud, everything is secure from a 360 degree perspective. So primarily, maintaining a good security posture, which on a hybrid cloud, I would not say only cloud, but extending your on-prem security posture to cloud is very, very important to when you go to implementing anything on could. >> If you had a crystal ball and we were sitting down here a year from now, you know, what do you think we'd be talking about with regard to, you know, developing these end-to-end opportunities that you are, what's the, I wouldn't say missing piece, but a piece that you would like to have refined to the point where you come back next year and say, John, guess what we did? Look what we were able to accomplish. Anything that you're looking at that you want to tackle here in 2023? Or is there some fine tuning somewhere that you think could even tighten your game even more than it is already? >> We have a long, long way to go, I would say. I think my core takeaway in terms of where the world of technology is headed because cloud is, you know, is essentially a component of what customers want to achieve. It's a medium through which they want to achieve. I think we live in a highly change oriented economy. Every industry is what I call getting re-platformed, right? New processes, new experiences, new products, new efficiency. So a year from now, and I can tell you even for few years from now, we would be constantly looking at our success in terms of how did cloud move the needle on releasing products faster? How did cloud move the needle on driving better experience and better consumer loyalty, for example. How did cloud move the needle on a more efficient supply chain? So increasingly, the technology metrics like, you know, keeping the lights on, or solving tickets, or releasing code on time, would move towards business metrics because that's really the ultimate goal of technology or cloud. So I would say that my crystal ball says we will increasingly be talking business language and business outcomes. Jeff Bezos is an incredible example, right? One of his annual letters, he connected everything back into how much time did consumers save by using Amazon. And I think that's really where in the world, that's the world we are headed towards. >> Ashish, any thoughts on that? >> I think Siddharth put it quite well. I would say if you are able to make a real business impact for our customers in next one year, helping them in driving some of their newer services on cloud through cloud, that would be a success factor for us. >> Well gentlemen, congratulations on the merger. I said two weeks. Still very much in the honeymoon phase and I'm sure it's going to go very well and I look forward to seeing you back here in a year. We'll sit down, same spot, let's remember, fifth floor, and we'll give it a shot and see how accurate you were on that. >> Absolutely. >> Wonderful. It's been a pleasure. >> Thank you gentlemen. >> Thank you for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Very good. Ashish, good to see you, sir. >> Thank you. >> A pleasure. We'll continue here. We're at the Venetian at AWS re:Invent 22, continue at the AWS Global Showcase startup. I'm John Walls. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech coverage. (gentle music)

>>Hey everyone, welcome back. It's the Cube live in Las Vegas. We've been here since Monday covering the event wall to coverage on the cube at AWS Reinvent 22, Lisa Martin here with Dave Ante. Dave, we're hearing consistently north of 50,000 people here. I'm hearing close to 300,000 online. People are back. They are ready to hear from AWS and its ecosystem. Yeah, >>I think 55 is the number I'm hearing. I've been using 50 for 2019, but somebody the other day told me, no, no, it was way more than that. Right, right. Well this feels bigger in >>2019. It does feel bigger. It does feel bigger. And we've had such great conversations as you know, because you've been watching the Cube since Monday night. We're pleased to welcome from Sumo Logic. Lynn Doherty, the president of Worldwide Field Operations. Lynn, welcome to the program. >>Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. Talk >>To us about what's going on at Sumo Logic. We cover them. We've been following them for a long time, but what's what's new? >>We have a lot going on at Sumo Logic. What we do is provide solutions for both observability and security. And if you think about the challenges that our customers are facing today, everybody as they're doing this digital transformation is in a situation where the data and the digital exhausts that they have is growing faster than their budgets and especially in what looks like potentially uncertain economic times. And so what we do is enable them to bring that together on a platform so that they can solve both of those problems in a really cost effective way. >>What are some of the things that you're hearing from customers in the field where it relates to Sumo logic and aws? What are they asking for? >>They continue to ask for security and, and I think as everybody goes on that journey of digital transformation and, and I think what's going on now is that there are people who are kind of in wave two of that digital transformation, but security continues to be top of mind. And again, as as our customers are moving into potentially uncertain economic times and they're saying, Hey, I've gotta shore up and, and maybe do smarter things with my budget, cybersecurity is one piece of that that is not falling off the table. That their requirements around security, around audits, around compliance don't go away regardless of what else happens. >>How do you fit in the cloud ecosystem generally? AWS specifically? I think AWS is generally perceived as a more friendly environment for the ecosystem partners. We saw CrowdStrike yesterday, you know, stock got crushed. They had a great quarter, but not as great as they thought it could be. Yeah. And one, some of the analysts were saying, well, it could be Microsoft competition at the low end of the market. Okay. AWS is like the ecosystem partners are really strong in security, lot of places to add value. Where does Sumo Logic >>Fit? Yeah, we are all in with aws. So AWS is our platform of choice. It's the platform that we're built on. It's the only platform that we use. And so we work incredibly closely with aws. In fact, last year we were the first ever AWS ISV partner of the year for as Sumo Logic, which we're not as big as some of the other players, but it just is a testament to the partnership that we have with aws. >>When you're out in the field talking with customers, we talked about some of the challenges there, but where are your customer conversations? You talked about security and cyber as is not falling off the table. In fact, it's, it's rising up the stock, it's a board level conversation. So where are the customer conversations that you're having? Are they, are they at the developer level? Are they higher? Are they at the C-suite? What does that look like? >>Yeah, it's, it's actually at both the developer and the C-suite. And so there's really two motions. The first is around developers and practitioners and people that run security operation centers. And they need tools that are easy to use that integrate in their environment. And so we absolutely work with them as a starting point because if, if they aren't happy with the tools that they have, you know, the customer can't go on that digital transformation, can't have effective application usage. But we also need to talk to C-Suite and that to CIO or a CISO who's really thinking often more broadly about how do we do things as a platform and how do we consolidate some of our tools to rationalize what we're using and really make the most of the budget that we have. And so we come at it from both angles. We call it selling above the line and below the line because both of those are really important people for us to work with. >>Above the line being sort of the business executives, >>Business executives and C-suite executives. And then, but below the line are the actual people who are using the product and using a day to day interacting with the tools. >>So how are those above the line and below the line conversations, you know, different? What, what are the, what are the above the line conversations? What are the sort of keywords that, you know, that resonate? Let's start there. >>Yeah, above the line, there's a lot that's around how do we make the most of the investments that we're making. And so there are no shortage of tools, right? You can look around this AWS floor and see that there are no shortage of tools and software products out there. And so above the line it's how do we make use of the budget that we have and get the most out of the investments we've made and do that in a really smart way. Often thinking about platforms and consolidating tools and, and using the tools and getting full value of what they have below the line. I think it's really how do they have really strong ease of use? How do they get the fastest time to value? Because time to value is really important when you're a practitioner, when you're developing an application, when you're migrating and modernizing an application, having tools that are easy to use and not just give you data but give you insights. And so that's what a conversation with a practitioner for us is, is taking data and turning it into insights that they can use. >>You know, and it seems like we never get rid of stuff in it, but there's a big conversation now when you talk to practitioners, okay, well you got some budget pressures, your sales cycles are elongating. What are you doing about, a lot of 'em are saying, well, we're consolidating and nowhere is that more needed probably than insecurity. So how, how are you seeing that play out in the market? Are you able to take advantage of that as Sumo? >>I think there's the old joke that says there is no ciso. Whoever says, if I just had one more tool, I'd be secure. >>And >>Nobody ever says that it's not one more tool. It's having effective tools and having tools that integrate. And so when I think of Sumo Logic in that space, it's number one, we really integrate with so many different tools out there that give, again, not just security information, but security insights. And so that becomes a really important part of the conversation. What, when you talk about tool consolidation, that's absolutely, I think something that has been a journey that a lot of our customers have been on and probably will be on for the foreseeable future. And so that's a place that we can really help because we have a platform that you can leverage our tool on the DevOps side and on the security side. And that's a conversation that we have a lot with our customers. Are >>You helping bridge those two, the security folks, the dev folks? Cause we talk about Shift left and CISO being involved now. Is Sumo Logic helping from a cultural perspective to bridge those two? >>Yeah, well I think it's a really good point that you make. It's, there's part of it that's a technology challenge and then there's part of it that's a cultural challenge and an organization silo challenge that happens. And so it is something that we try to bring our customers together and often start in one area of the business and help move into other areas and bring them together. It, it also comes down to that data growing faster than budgets and customers can no longer afford to keep multiple copies of the same data, the same metrics, and all of that digital exhaust that comes as they move to the cloud and modernize their applications. And so we bring that together and help them get the most use out of it. >>There are a lot of, we've been talking all week in the cube about sort of adjacencies to security. We've talking about data protections now becoming an adjacency. You know, you talk about resilience within an organization, everybody was sort of caught off guard, obviously with the pandemic, not as resilient as they could have been. So it seems like the scope of security is really expanding. You know, they always say it's, it's a team sport, okay, it's a pro mine, but it's true. Right? Whereas it used to be that guy's problem. Yeah. What are you seeing in terms of that evolution? >>Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think the pandemics force some of that faster than was happening, but it's absolutely something that is going on that cybersecurity is now built in from the ground up and I've been in cyber security for years and it's moved from an afterthought or something that comes after the fact, Hey, let's build the application and then we'll worry about security to, it needs to be a secure application from the ground up. And so that is bringing together that dev and SEC ops a lot because it needs to be built in, the security piece needs to be built in from the ground up on the development side. >>Absolutely. The, the threat landscape has changed so much in the last couple of years. Has the fraudsters, bad actors, whatever you wanna call 'em, are getting far more sophisticated. Yeah. So security can't be an afterthought. Can't be a built on. Yeah, it's gotta be integrated, built in from the ground up for organizations to be able to be, as they've said, resilient. We're hearing a lot about resiliency and the importance of it. For any business. >>For any business, it's important for every business. And if you think about how we interact with companies now, our view of a bank isn't the branch, it's the app, our view of office, it's this, right? It's, it's on the phone, it's on digital devices, it's on a website. And so that is your interaction, that is your experience. And so that plays into, is it up, is it running, is it responsive? That application performance piece, but also the security piece of is it secure? Is my data protected? You know, do I have any vulnerability? >>Yeah, you must have, being in field operations, a favorite customer story that you really think defines the value proposition beautifully of Sumo Logic. What story is that? >>Wow, that's a good question. I have a lot of favorite stories. You know, we have customers, for example, gaming customers that maybe aren't able to predict what their usage looks like. And that's something that we really help our customers with is the peaks and valleys. And so we have gaming customers or retail customers that we're able to take their data sources and they may be at one level and go to 10 x in a day without any notice. And we're able to handle that for them. And I think that's something that I'm really proud of is that we don't make that the customer's problem. They're, they're peaks and valleys, they're spikes that may happen seasonally in retail. It's Black Friday sales that are coming up. It's a new game that gets released. It's a new music piece that gets released and they are going to see that, but they don't have to worry about that because of us. And so that really makes me proud that we handle that and take that problem off of their shoulders. I >>See Pokemon on the website, that's a hugely popular >>Game, Pokemon now. Yes. >>Last question for you, we've got about 30 seconds left. If you had a billboard to put up in Denver where you live about Sumo Logic and its impact like an elevator pitch or a phrase that you think really summarizes the impact, what would it >>Say? Yeah, well it's a really good question. I've got it on my shirt. I dunno, it's not for the G-rated, but we fix things faster. Fix shit faster. And so for us that's really, ultimately, it's not just about having information, it's not just about having the data, it's about being able to resolve your problems quickly. And whether that's an application or a security issue, we've gotta be able to fix it faster for our customers and that's what we enable them to do. >>Fix bleep faster. Lynn, it's been a pleasure having you on the program. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining us. Awesome step at Sumo Logic. For our guest and for Dave Ante. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube Live from Las Vegas, the leader in live enterprise and emerging tech coverage.

(upbeat music) >> Hey, everyone. Welcome to this CUBE Conversation that's part of the AWS startup showcase Season Two, Episode Four. I'm your host Lisa Martin. Chase Doelling joins me, the principles strategist at JumpCloud. Chase, welcome to theCUBE. It's great to have you. >> Chase: Perfect. Well, thank you so much, Lisa. I really appreciate the opportunity to come and hang out. >> Let's talk about JumpCloud. First of all, love the name. This is an open directory platform. Talk to the audience about what the platform is, obviously, the evolution of the domain controller. But give us that backstory? >> Yeah, absolutely. And so, company was started, and I think, from serial entrepreneurs, and after kind of last exit, taking a look around and saying, "Why is this piece of hardware still the dominant force when you're thinking about identities, especially when the world is moving to cloud, and all the different pieces that have been around it?" And so, over the years, we've evolved JumpCloud into an open directory platform. And what that is, is we're managing your identities, the devices that are associated to that, all the access points that employees need just to get their job done. And the best part is, is we're able to do that no matter where they are within the world. >> It seems like kind of a reinvention of how modern IT teams are getting worked done, especially in these days of remote work. Talk to me a little bit about the last couple of years particularly as remote work exploded, and here we are still probably, permanently, in that situation? >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's probably going to be one of those situations where we stick with it for quite a while. We had a very abrupt force in making sure that essentially every IT and security team could grapple with the fact of their users are no longer coming into the office. You know, how do we VPN into all of our different resources? Those are very common and unfortunate pain points that we've had over the last couple years. And so, now, people have starting to kind of get into the motion of it, working from home, having background and setups and other pieces. But one of the main areas of concern, especially as you're thinking about that, is how does it relate to my security infrastructure, or kind of my approach to my organization. And making sure that too, on the tail end, that a user's access and making sure that they can get into everything that they need to do in order to get work done, is still happening? And so, what we've done, is we've really taken, evolving and really kind of ripping apart this notion of what a directory was. 'Cause originally, it was just like, great, almost like a phone directory. It's where people lived they're going into all those different pieces. But it wasn't set up for the modern world, and kind of how we're approaching it, and how organizations now are started with a credit card and have all of their infrastructure. And essentially, all of their IP, is now hosted somewhere else. And so, we wanted to take a different approach where we're thinking about, not only managing that identity, but taking an open approach. So, matter where the identity's coming from, we can integrate that into the platform but then we're also managing and securing those devices, which is often the most important piece that we have sitting right in front of us in order to get into that. But then, also that final question, of when you're accessing networks applications, can you create the conditions for trust, right? And so, if you're looking at zero trust, or kind of going after different levels of compliance, ISO, SOC2, whatever that might be, making sure that you have all that put in place no matter where your employees are. So, in that way, as we kind of moved into this remote, now hybrid world, it wasn't the office as the gating point anymore, right? So, key cards, as much as we love 'em, final part, whereas the new perimeter, the kind of the new barrier for organizations especially how they're thinking about security, is the people's identities behind that. And so, that's the approach that we really wanted to take as we continue to evolve and really open up what a directory platform can do. >> Yeah. Zero trust security, remote work. Two things that have exploded in the last couple of years. But as employees, we expected to be able to still have the access that we needed to apps, to the network, to WiFi, et cetera. And, of course, on the security side, we saw massive changes in the threat landscape that really, obviously, security elevates to a board level conversation. So, I imagine zero trust security, remote work, probably compliance, you mentioned SOC2, are some of the the key use cases that you're helping organizations with? >> Those are a lot of the drivers. And what we do, is we're able to combine a lot of different aspects that you need for each one of those. And so, now you're thinking about essentially, the use case of someone joins an organization, they need access to all these different things. But behind the scenes, it's a combination of identity access management, device management, applications, networks, everything else, and creating those conditions for them to do their roles. But the other piece of that, is you also don't want to be overly cumbersome. I think a lot of us think about security as like great biometrics, so I'm going to add in these keys, I'm going to do everything else to kind of get into these secured resources. But the reality of it now, is those secure resources might be AWS infrastructure. It might be other Salesforce reporting tools. It might be other pieces, or kind of IP within the organization. And those are now your crown jewel. And so, if you're not thinking about the identities behind them and the security that you have in order to facilitate that transaction, it becomes a board level conversation very quickly. But you want to do it in a way that people can move forward with their lives, and they're not spending a ton of time battling the systems and procedures you put in place to protect it, but that it's working together seamlessly. And so, that's where, kind of this notion for us of bringing all these different technologies into one platform. You're able to consolidate a lot of those and remove a lot of the friction while maintaining the visibility, and answering the question, of who has access to what? And when did they do that? Those are the most critical pieces that IT and security teams are asking themselves when something happens. And hopefully, on the preventative side and not so much on the redacted side. >> Have you seen the escalation up the C-Suite change of the board in terms of really focusing on how do we do identity management? How do we do single sign on? How do we do device management and network access? Is that all the way up to the C-Suite board level as well? >> It certainly can be. And we've seen it in a lot of different conversations, because now you are thinking about all different portions of the organization. And then, two, as we're thinking about times we're currently in, there's also a cost associated to that. And so, when you start to consolidate all of those technologies into one area, now it becomes much more of total cost optimization types of story while you're still maintaining a lot of the security and basic blocking and tackling that you need for most organizations. So, everything you just mentioned, those are now table stakes for a lot of small, medium, startups to be at the table. So, how do you have access to enterprise level, essentially technology, without the cost that's associated to it. And that's a lot of the trade offs that organizations are facing and having those types of conversations as it relates to business preparedness and how we're making sure that we are putting our best foot forward, and we're able to be resilient in no matter what type, of either economic or security threat that the organization might be looking at. >> So, let's talk about the go-to market, the strategy from a sales and marketing perspective. Where are the customer conversations happening? Are they at the IT level? Are they higher up the stack? >> It's really at, I'd say the IT level. And so, by that, I mean the builders, the implementers, everyone that's responsible for putting devices in people's hands, and making sure that they can do their job effectively. And so, those are their, I'd say the IT admins the world as well as the managed service providers who support those organizations, making sure that we can enable them to making sure that their organizations or their client organizations have all the tools that their disposable to make sure that they have the security or the policies, and the technology behind them to enable all those different practices. >> Let's unpack the benefits from an IT perspective? Obviously, they're getting one console that they can manage at all. One user identity for email, and devices, and apps, and things. You mentioned regardless of location, but this is also regardless of operating system, correct? >> That's correct. And so, part of taking an open approach, is also the devices that you're running on. And so, we take a cross OS approach. So, Mac, Windows, Linux, iPhone, whatever it might be, we can make sure that, that device is secure. And so, it does a couple different things. So, one, is the employees have device choice, right? So, I'm a Mac person coming in. If forced into a Windows, it'd be an interesting experience. But then, also too, from the back end, now you have essentially one platform to manage your entire fleet. And also give visibility and data behind what's happening behind those. And then, from the end user perspective as well, everything's tied together. And so, instead of having, what we'll call user ID schizophrenia, it might be one employee, but hundreds of different identities and logins just to get their work done. We can now centralize that into one person, making sure you have one password to get into your advice, get into the network, to get into your single sign on. We also have push MFA associated with that. So, you can actually create the conditions for your most secured access, or you understand, say, "Hey, I'm actually in the office. I'm going to be a hybrid employee. Maybe I can actually relax some of those security concerns I might have for people outside of the network." And all we do, is making sure that we give all that optionality to our IT admins, manage service providers of the world to enable that type of work for their employees to happen. >> So, they have the ability to toggle that, is critically important in this day and age of the hybrid work model, that's probably here to stay? >> It is, yeah. And it's something that organizations change, right? Our own organizations, they grow, they change different. New threats might emerge, or same old existing threats continue to come back. And we need to just have better processes and automations put within that. And it's when you start to consolidate all of those technologies, not only are you thinking about the visibility behind that, but then you're automating a lot of those different pieces that are already tightly coupled together. And that actually is truly powerful for a lot of the IT admins of the world, because that's where they spend a lot of time, and they're able to spend more time helping users tackling big projects instead of run rate security, and blocking, and tackling. That should be enabled from the organization from the get go. >> You mentioned automation. And I think that there's got to be a TCO reduction aspect here with respect to security and IT practices. Can you talk about that a little bit? >> Yeah, absolutely. Let's think about the opposite of that. Let's say we have a laundry list of technology that we need to go out and source. One is, great, where the identity is, so we have an identity provider. Now, we need to make sure that we have application access that might look like single sign on. Now, we need to make sure, you are who you are no matter where you are in the world. Well, now we need multifactor authentication and that might involve either a push button, or biometrics. And then, well, great the device's in front of us, that's a huge component, making sure that I can understand, not only who's on the device, but that the device is secure, that there's certificates there, that there's policies that ensure the proper use of that wherever it might be. Especially, if I'm an employee, either, it used to be on the the jet center going between flying anywhere you need. Now, it's kind of cross country, cross domain, all those different areas. And when you start to have that, it really unlocks, essentially IT sprawl. You have a lot of different pieces, a lot of different contracts, trying to figure out one technology works, but the other might not. And you're now you're creating workarounds for all these different pieces. So, the opposite of that, is essentially, let's take all those technologies and consolidate that into one platform. So, not only is it cheaper essentially, looking after that and understanding all the different technologies, but now it's all the other soft costs around it that many people don't think about. It's all the other automations. It's all the workarounds that you didn't have to do in the first place. It's all the other pieces that you'd spend a lot of time trying to wire it together. Into the hopes of that, it creates some security model. But then again, you lose a lot of the visibility. So, you might have an incident happen over here, or a trigger, or alert, but it's not tied to the rest of the stack. And so, now you're spending a lot of time, especially, either trying to understand. And worse timing, is if you have an incident and you're trying to understand what's happening? Unraveling all of that as it happens, becomes impossible, especially if it's not consolidated with one platform. So, there's not only the hard cost aspect of bringing all that together, but also the soft costs of thinking about how your business can perform, or at least optimize for a lot of those different standard processes, including onboarding, offboarding, and everything else in between. >> Yeah. On the soft cost side, I can imagine. I can see huge benefits for HR onboarding, offboarding. I can see benefits for the employee experience period, which directly relates to the customer experience. So, in terms of the business impact that JumpCloud can make, it seems to be pretty horizontal across any type of organization? >> It is, and especially as you mentioned HR. Because when you think about, where does the origin of someone's identity start? Well, typically, it starts with a resume and that might be in applicant tracking software. Now, we're going to get hired, so we're going to move into HR, because, well, everyone likes payroll, and we need that in our lives, right? But now you get into the second phase, of great, now I've joined the organization. Now, I need access to all of these different pieces. But when you look at it, essentially horizontally, from HR, all the way into the employee experience, and their whole life cycle within the organization, now you're touching multiple different teams And that's one of the other, I'd say benefits of that, is now you're actually bringing in HR, and IT, and security, and everyone else that might be related within these kind of larger use cases of making work happen all coming under. And when they're tightly integrated, it's also a lot more secure, right? So, you're not passing notes along. You're not having a checklist of other stuff, especially when it relates to something as important as someone's identity, which is more often than not, the most common attack vector for people to go after. Because they know it's the keys to the kingdom. There's going to be a lot of different attempts, maybe malware and other pieces, but a lot of it comes back into, can I impersonate, or become the person that I want within the organization, because it's the identity allows you to access all those different pieces. And so, if it's coming from a disjointed process or something that's not as tightly as it could be, that's where it really opens up a lot of different vectors that organizations don't think about. >> Right, and those vectors are only growing and multiplying as we know, and here to stay. When you're in customer conversations what do you describe as maybe the top three differentiators of JumpCloud compared to the competition? >> Well, I think a lot of it is we take an open approach. And so, by that, I mean, it's one we're not locking into, I'd say different vendors or other areas. We're really looking into making sure that we can work within your environment as it stands today, or where you want to migrate in the future. And so, this could be a combination of on-prem resources, cloud resources, or nothing if you're starting a company from today. And the second, is again, coming back into how we're looking at devices. So, we take a cross OS approach that way, no matter what you're operating on, it all comes back from the same dashboard. But then, finally, we leverage a ton of different protocols to make sure it works with everything within your current technology stack, as well as it continues to elevate and evolve over time. So, it could be LD app and Radius, and Sam, and skim, and open ID Connect, and open APIs. And whatever that might be, we are able to tie in all those different pieces. So, now, all of a sudden, it's not just one platform, but you have your whole business tied into as that gives you some flexibility too, to evolve. Because even during the pandemic and the shift for remote, there's a lot of technology choices that shifted. A lot of people are like, "Okay, now's the time to go to the cloud." There might be other events that organizations change. There's other things that might happen. So, creating that flexibility for organizations to move and make those calls, is essentially how we're differentiating ourselves. And we're not locking you into this, walled garden of technology that's just our own. We really want to make sure that we can operate, and be that glue, so that way, no matter what you're trying to do and making sure that your work is being done, we can help facilitate that. >> Nice. No matter what happens. Because boy, at this day, anything's possible. One more question for you about your AWS partnership. Talk to me a little bit about that? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, we are preferred ADP identity provider and SSO provider for AWS. And so, now rebranded under their identity center. But it's crucial for a lot of our organizations and joint customers because again, when we think about a lot of organization IP and how they operate as a business, is tied into AWS. And so, really understanding, who has the right level of access? Who should be in there or not? And when too, you should challenge in making sure that actually there's something fishy there. Like let's make sure that they're not just traveling to Europe on a sabbatical, and it's really who they are instead of a threat actor. Those are some of the pieces when we're thinking about creating that authentication, but then also, the right authorization into those AWS resources. And so, that's actually something that we've been very close to, especially, I'd say that the origins of a company. Because a lot of startups, that's where they go. That's where they begin their journey. And so, we meet them where they are, and making sure that we're protecting not only everything else within their organization, but also what they're trying to get into, which is typically AWS >> Meeting customers where they are. It's all about that. Chase, thank you so much for joining me on the program talking about JumpCloud, it's open directory platform. The benefits, the capabilities, what's in it for IT, HR, security, et cetera. We appreciate all of your insights and time. Where do you want to point folks to go to learn more? >> Well, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for having us. And I'd say, if you're curious about any and all these different technologies, the best part is everything I talked about is free up to 10 users, 10 devices. So, just go to jumpcloud.com. You can create an organization, and it's great for startups, people at home. Any size company that you're at, we can help support all of those different facets in bringing in those different types of technologies all into one roof. >> Awesome. Chase, thank you so much. This is awesome, go to jumpcloud.com. For Chase Doelling, I'm Lisa Martin. We want to thank you so much for giving us some of your time and watching this CUBE Conversation. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Coupa Inspire 2022. We are in Las Vegas at the beautiful Cosmopolitan hotel. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. Brian McKillips joins me next, a managing director at Accenture. Brian, it's great to have you on the program. >> Thanks for having me, I'm glad to be here. >> So you have an interesting, you lead a lot of stuff at Accenture and I want to read this off, so I get it right. You lead the intelligent platform services strategy and the industry and functions platform group. Talk to me about those responsibilities. >> Yeah, so the intelligent platform services is the place in the business where we have kind of our large software partners, SAP, Oracle, Microsoft, Workday, Salesforce and Adobe. And we kind of think of ourselves as kind of the engine that powers industry and functional solutions, right? And the way Accenture's gone to market over the last couple of years has been kind of bringing together our breadth of experience all the way from strategy, all the way through operations and these big technology transformations are at the core of that. So that's what we do in intelligent platform services. And we recently launched this what we call the industry and functions platforms group because we realized there's a lot of strategic partners that are critical for us to be have a strong practice around, COUPA being one of them, you know in the supply chain and sourcing and procurement space so that we could create a home to be able to deliver these solutions globally and at scale. So I lead both kind of the strategy across all of IPS and then the new industry and functions platform group. >> Got it. All right. So you're here to talk to me about composable technology. First of all, define that for the audience so they understand what you're talking about. >> Yeah, you bet. So, you know, at Accenture, we're talking a lot about this is the age of compressed transformation, meaning, you know, change is only going to speed up and the need to change and so our clients are really struggling with not only kind of moving fast but that pressure around having to change as dynamics around the world change. So in the age of compressed transformation, we were really talking about how our clients should be kind of reorienting the way they think about their tech stack. And because, you know, historically a lot of us grew up in kind of monolithic implementations with, you know one software provider. But today it's really about composing technology to create new industry, new ways to solve industry problems, functional processes, customer experiences, right? And so composable technology we think about it in three parts. One is a cloud foundation that is, you know, the hyperscalers are a critical part of that. Secondly, our digital core and these are the kind of the historic software packages at the center of a lot of the industry and functional business processes. So you think about SAP and Oracle and Salesforce and things like that. But then around that digital core you have composable elements to be able to plug in. And that could be things like other software packages but it's also kind of industry IP or you know, edge devices, you know think IOT, think smart appliances, think and when you put, pull all those things together you need to be able to not only configure it once but configure and reconfigure as the dynamics of the marketplace change. >> So composable technology isn't necessarily new but has the pandemic been an accelerator of some of the things that you're seeing now in terms of why it's important, what's different about it now as being a foundation for competitive differentiation? >> Yeah, for sure. And it's, you know, I, anybody who's in technology say, you know, you tell them about this idea, they're like, well this isn't new, we've had service oriented architectures for 20 years. >> Right. >> You know, we've been talking about integrating things forever, but the you know, much like we all five to seven years ago we knew that we'd be using our phones to pay for pretty much everything but the tech hadn't caught up, right. Not every restaurant or store that you went to had the point of sale set up, right. So we all kind of knew that was coming. And the same thing has kind of happened around this idea of about composable technology and the three things that are new are one is that the cloud foundation is here, right. >> Yes. >> Where, you know, you now have not only kind of hyperscale high speed compute in at the core you actually have at the edge as well. And the same thing with high speed network, you know you have Starlink, you have 5G rolling out. So you have that cloud foundation that really wasn't there before. The second thing that's happening is the posture of a lot of the ecosystem, major ecosystem players has changed, right. And this started, you know when Satya Nadella took over Microsoft where Microsoft was very much a kind of a closed environment. >> Right. >> Where Satya under his leadership has really kind of changed the posture of being able to integrate into that. And we've seen that really pretty much across the entire landscape. And then lastly, it's become, you know, cheaper and, you know, quicker to be able to integrate with platforms like MuleSoft and others where there's kind of full scale integration platforms. So those are, those are the kind of the things that are new that allows for composable technology to be here in the real world. >> So it's something that's tangible, it's real organizations need to be on this bandwagon I imagine or they're going to be left behind. Gartner had some interesting stats that your team sent over and they were talking about these stats that were very compelling in terms of a seismic shift which always, you hear seismic living in California I think earthquakes, but something substantial. And they said, this seismic shift is going to happen by 2023. And I thought, hang on, that's less than a year away. >> Yeah. >> And they talked about by 2023, organizations that have adopted an intelligent composable approach will outpace competition 80% in the speed of new feature implementation. So if an organization hasn't started on that now is it too late? >> I would say not necessarily too late but they need to look for ways to change their disposition, right. And one of the ways that we've been helping clients do this is through pre-integrated solutions, right. So you know, in the past, the motion would be we would work with a client, they would work with our kind of strategists and consultants and say, what does the the future of supply chain look like for example. And if the client liked it, they would say, okay, I love it, what do I do next? Right. Then there would be another consulting engagement, another consulting engagement and then there would be a blueprint and architecture and at some point there was an implementation and a run. We've actually said we're investing heavily with our ecosystem partners to be able to pre-integrate solutions. So when that supply chain strategist says this is what the post COVID supply chain should look like and the client says, I love it what do I do next, that strategist can turn around and say, well, we've got a pre-integrated solution with SAP at the core sitting on a Microsoft Azure stack integrated with Coupa, wrapped with AI and machine learning and we can drop that and configure it for an environment. So that's how we're working with clients who are in that position that really need to kind of change their disposition is to bring these pre-integrated solutions and drop them in. >> Where are your conversations at the C- Suite level? Because this is, I hear many things in what you just said. Part of it is change management, which is very challenging. There's, people are very resistant to that. >> Brian: Yeah. >> One of the things that we've learned in the last two years is if it's going to come it's going to come but where are your conversations within that executive suite in terms of getting buy-in and going this is the direction we have to go in. >> Brian: Yeah. >> Because our business needs to be not just survive but thrive. >> Yeah. Yeah. These are, I mean, there are certainly of course in kind of traditional channels of tech whether it's, you know, the CIO or the CTO, but increasingly we're seeing this is a CEO discussion and, you know, our CEO Julie Sweet, is very, very market pacing and is having top to top conversations talking about compressed transformation, talking about composable technology because it's no longer just a, you know, a back office function as you know, right. I mean, this is really core to how companies you know, are, change their business models, make money, right. And it's a constant evolution. And that's why we talk about that kind of configuring and reconfiguring, it's not just coming in, implementing once, run it for five years and then when it's time to upgrade, we come back. >> No. >> We really want to be the partner with our clients to basically move in and, you know, across the patch whether it's specific industry processes, specific functional processes, specific customer experiences, we want to be the partner that is constantly tuning and configuring and reconfiguring and composing these solutions from across the ecosystem. >> And helping those businesses in any industry evolve as you talked about this compressed timeline, compressed transformation, such an interesting way of describing it but it's really true, it's what we've been living the last couple of years. >> Brian: Yeah. And so I want to get into Accenture's technology vision. You touched on this a little bit but there was some stats that your team provided that I thought were really, really interesting, a survey that Accenture did, 77% of executives, and we were just talking about the C-suite, state that their tech architecture is becoming critical to the overall success of the organization. So that awareness is there for sure en masse. Another thing that, stat that was interesting was 90% of business and IT execs agree that to be agile we always talk about agility, right, be resilient, organizations need to fast forward this digital transformation at the core. There's that compressed transformation. >> Brian: Yeah. >> Those are very high numbers. >> Brian: Yeah. >> In terms of where organizations say we see where we need to be. What's the vision at Accenture to help organizations get there fast? >> Yeah. Well, I think it's, you know, the thing that came to mind as you were talking is that we have, you know, major clients that have had this had in the, you know consumer packaged goods and apparel space that have had one way that they've done business is directly through retailers, you know, for pretty much their whole existence. Suddenly they need to shift to a direct to consumer model both in terms of marketing, in terms of commerce and that's not, you know, you don't just flip a switch in the back office and, you know, call IT and say hey, hey, can you change around a few things? It's actually shifting the entire core, it touches everything, it touches point of sale, it touches the customer experience, it touches supply chain, it touches employee experience even, right. >> Yeah. >> And so that's why I think it's so important for, you know technology leaders and business leaders to continue to kind of integrate themselves more tightly. >> Yes. >> To be able to make these business model transformations not just, you know, the tech that supports things. >> It's essential. >> Yeah. >> You know, we often in so many shows, Brian, we talk about alignment of business and technology, but it's not trivial. >> Yeah, yeah. >> It's absolutely fundamental to the success of every organization. And they've got to do so and as you said, I'm going to use your, your word, the compressed transformation. >> Yeah. >> A compressed timeframe. So talk to me about some customer examples where you really feel that Accenture and Coupa have helped this organization transform its supply chain to be able to be, use composable technology. >> Brian: Yeah. >> To be a leader in its industry. >> Yeah. Well, one example of that is a major industrial client that we have that has global operations across the world. And they're on a journey to kind of upgrade their digital core ERP that they've been on for a long time. And that's a multi-year journey. But at, you know, today they have needs for sourcing and procurement solutions in specific geographies around the world like Japan, for example. So what we've been able to do and it's a relatively simple example but quickly work with the client and Coupa to identify the right Coupa solution that's born in the cloud that has a great kind of user experience and implement that quickly as well as integrated it into the digital core, right. So they're not separate things. And it becomes part of that architecture, right. It just starts to kind of show the flexibility of when you have, when you come with a kind of composable technology point of view, the way we can help our clients do that. And in some other cases it's even more, you know, more cutting edge. So think about a utilities client, for example that has IOT sensors on their wires and when the, when that wire swings too far they say something's wrong. Automatically it goes back to the digital core cuts a ticket and finds the closest worker. >> Lisa: Okay. >> To then dispatch. The worker then can put on their hollow lens, for example and climb the pole and get directions on how to solve the problem right then and there, right? That's another example of you know, multiple systems, edge devices things coming together in order to create that. And it's only going to get faster, you know, with the metaverse. >> Lisa: Right. >> You know, with web 3.0 coming, with blockchain becoming more and more mainstream, companies need to be thinking about in this age of compressed transformation how to do that composable technology that you can figure and reconfigure. >> Do you think that we're in an age of compressed transformation or is that how it's going to be going forward given the global climate the last two years? >> Yeah. It's definitely going to be that way going forward over the next, you know, probably for the large part of the, the remainder of our career. I mean, we're, our CTO, Paul Daugherty, talks about us being an mega cycle, right? There's so many things changing. And even without these externalities of, you know, political issues and pandemics, you know, the introduction of AI and machine learning, a lot of these technologies I just mentioned, it's, the change is happening in every industry, in every, you know kind of area of the marketplace and in a way that's, you know, that's really exciting, right. And we get to help our clients be able to kind of solve those things not just once, but continually >> There's a tremendous amount of opportunity that's come from compressed transformation, right. A lot of opportunity, a lot of potential. What are some of the things that you're looking forward to say in the next year, as we talked about some of those business and lines of business and IT folks understand we've got to move in this direction. What excites you about the potential that you have to help these organizations really transform? >> Yeah, well, I think, I mean, the, we just came out with our new tech vision which is about the metaverse. And I think that the things that excite me are there's brand new ways like we've lived in a world where transactions take place in a very predictable way with local currencies through a single channel. And that was, that's been sort of fixed for a long time. The fundamentals of the economy or actually in the marketplace are starting to change in terms of how do we transact with things like cryptocurrencies, things like non fungible tokens, you know, all these things that we didn't, you know, they weren't, even the metaverse these were not main line words, even six you know, months ago, 12 months ago. >> Lisa: Right, right. >> Now these things, you know, every it seems like every month there's something new that is, you know, seismic to use your word that is shifting the fundamentals of the marketplace. And I think that's what's really exciting. I mean, that's where, I mean, it's probably one of the most exciting times to be in business, be in the marketplace. It certainly has a lot of challenges. >> Lisa: Yes. >> But, you know, I think we're really about using, you know, the promise of technology to unlock human ingenuity and this is a great time to be able to unlock that human ingenuity. >> And that's such a great alignment with Coupa. I was just in the keynote and there was an Accenture video, Julie Sweet was talking to some other folks about that. Great alignment in the partnership. Brian, thank you for joining me talking about composable technology, what's new, why and the potential that organizations and every business have to use it to unlock competitive advantages. >> Brian: Yeah. >> We appreciate your insights and your time. >> You bet. Pleasure to be here. >> All right. With Brian McKillips, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBEe from Coupa Inspire 2022. (upbeat music)

>>Hey everyone. Welcome to this cube conversation featuring next law. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. And today we are joined by Sukkot Sarab CEO and founder of next, next LA Sukkot. Great to have you on the program, >>Lisa, thank you so much for having me here really excited about this. >>Tell us a little bit about next level. What is it that you guys do? >>Yeah. Um, you know, we are in the world of data and one of the biggest challenges that we face, um, as an industry is there is so much data, so much variety. How do we really get it into the hands of people who use data? And, um, the users of data are all across. You know, they shouldn't have to be engineers. They are across the board in different functions. So next, last purpose and mission has always been ready to use data in the hands of the users. So, um, what misled us today is makes it possible for users across the board, whether those are data scientists, whether those are data analysts, whether those are people in various business functions to get the data that they need in the tools that they work with. So, um, we make that possible in a very, no code way, um, for users to get access to the data. Um, and very uniquely actually do that by automating a lot of the data engineering process. We'll talk more about that, but it's an exciting space to be in. >>It is an exciting space to be in. And of course that the volumes of data could just continue to explode and there's, that will not be slowing down anytime. Soon, as we know in businesses, one of the things we saw in the last two years was businesses pivoting so many times and really needing, going from survival mode to thriving mode, but the ability to harness the power and the insights and data is critical for businesses to be successful these days as consumers. We just expect that if it's our business life or personal life, whoever we're interacting with is going to know what we want, and we're going to be able to display that to us quickly. We think about data match. It's a relatively new concept, right? Talk to me about data mesh and what differentiates next left from your competition. >>Yeah. Um, so data mesh is essentially, I would say in the lineage of the concept of democratizing data, the idea has always been that data should get to the users. Now for a long time, these users were dependent on it and engineering to get the data to them. So what the data mesh is doing is it's bringing a framework by which users of data. We call them data, the domains, the different functions that use data. They can have the data to use themselves. They can manage things on their own. And I think that is allowing for a framework in which teams can truly scale. I mean, that bottleneck of depending on engineering to do everything for you is just not going work. And I think in the last two years, even more so we saw that as companies tried to move fast, it started to break down. And I think there is a lot of momentum around this concept of data mesh. For this reason, people are finding that this concept is what can help them scale >>And how does next SLA deliver that single tool so that you can really democratize data and give people with varying levels of technical fluency, the access that they need. I can imagine finance folks with ERP data marketing folks with CRM data. How do you do that with a single tool? >>Yeah. So, um, I think the key thing about getting data in the hands of users, as we think about data democratization has been that, how does it actually happen? How do you give people access to the data? You know, simply giving them passwords to systems is not enough right now the data mesh concept comes with the understanding that there should be an entity, which we call it a data, product data, you know, a data product becomes that sort of common entity that becomes something that people can get access to. They can use, they can collaborate on. Now, what is a data product becomes an important question, of course, and how do we get a data product? So our next step comes in in a very key way is we automatically generate these data products. So again, going back to the thinking that look there, there is not going to be enough engineers to write code for everything. What we are able to do is to say that we can actually, you know, connect to data systems, look to the data, understand it, and package it up as a product, as a data product. And that data product is a core element of the damage. I'm happy to share what a data product is, if it helps people understand and of, >>Yeah. Let's double click into that a little bit. I was noticing on your website about next sets and I wanted to know what that is and how does it reimagine data, product creation. >>Yeah. Um, so let me just break down a little bit about what is the data product in the first place, right. I mean, as consumers, we use products all the time, you know, I'm, I'm, my laptop is here on our desk and that is a product. It is a product made from raw materials, like wood and metal and screws, right. And somebody designed the product, somebody built it and I'm using it. So if we think of the same parallel in the world of data, then API APIs and files and database tables, those are the raw materials. Um, if somebody takes that and packages that up into something that other people can use easily, that is the concept of the data product. Now, what, how is it different from data? Well, you take the core data and you put things around it. Like, what is the distribution of data? >>What is the structure of it? You know, what are the validations that make it work, how to better manage that, who has access to it when you take that raw material and put all of those other structures, it that's when it sort of becomes a data product. And the next step concept in next door is essentially a manifestation of that. It is the concept that these data products do not need to be new copies of data, which is a huge pain by the way. But instead they can be these logical entities. So if I can take us back to the world of compute, where we understand the concept of containers, no, these containers are basically a logical NPP that gives us access to the computation resources. Think of next set as a very similar thing, a logical entity that gives us access to the data resources. And, um, this is something that, you know, we have been able to innovate and automate in such a way that today, when people think of the data mesh and they want to build that, they see us as a component in that whole framework. So data mesh is a much broader framework, but we are sort of the building block for that, through this concept >>Building block. Got it. Talk to me about where your customer conversations are happening. Are they within chief data officer chief information officer? Is it within the C-suite as data is every company these days has to be a data company. >>Oh yeah. Very much in the C-suite. Right. So again, this changes a little bit industry by industry because every industry is organized differently. Um, for example, you know, we have some amazing customer international services there. The conversation often is this the chief data officer or the chief analytics officer. And the key thing that the C suite is thinking is how does this work in the future? How do you know the scale of data challenges are, is the growth of that is so fast. How do we handle things to three years, five years from now? And that's where the strategic conversation is. And that's where things like data mesh become extremely important for companies where we talked to them about, you know, how our technology sort of enables that, right? Um, across other industries, the functions may vary. And one of the things which is very interesting with data, um, compared to other technologies is that it touches almost every aspect of business. It's not limited to engineering. It is your person in HR who is doing HR analytics, source candidates, and profiles are reviewing and all that stuff to finance, to operations, every aspect of business does touch data. So this has to be done in a language and a mechanism that's much more approachable. >>It's gotta be horizontal for all of those different types of users, right. To be able to understand so that ultimately not only did they get access to the data, but they can pull out those insights faster than their competition, whether it's to develop new revenue, streams, new products, new services, you know, the, the person on the other end or the companies on the other end are expecting that real-time interaction. >>Yeah. Yeah. But that's >>No longer a nice to have >>No longer likes to have. And to clarify, right. I mean, the use of data is in multiple ways, right? So analytics is a big use of data, which is how is my business doing and running. Um, we have customers like, um, you know, um, Marchex and Poshmark and bed bath beyond and so on. We'll use us heavily to bring data for the analytics use cases as our companies, for example, like a door dash or Instacart, but that data feeds operational purposes, operational purposes, meaning, understanding the availability of inventory or products across different stores. Not that data has functioned to say, well, if I know what products are available, then I can list them. Then I can go pick them up. And that's not a analytics use case alone. It has a, um, you know, it has an operational use case, right? Um, similarly we see that in audit tracking, we have customers, for example, like Narvar that use us to connect to different shipping tracking system. So the applications of data are in analytics. There are certainly also in operations, which is core business. And they're also, of course, in data science. There's no question that the extension of analytics from looking back on how business is doing to data science, which is, you know, what should we be doing and how should we be more intelligent? So it's across the board, >>Across the board, horizontal, all industries really need to do this, but one of the things that pop into my mind as you were walking through that example was the supply chain challenges that we're all experiencing right now. How can next help organizations mitigate some of the challenges that are going on? >>I think what happens is, you know, technologies like ours, which are the data layer are at a fundamental foundational level. One of the things about next slide is that we are able to bring a data into a much more real time usage. So where in companies, but traditionally moving data on a much more sort of periodic basis. We are our plumbing under the hood. We are completely in real time, which means that we are allowing companies to now get access to that data in a faster way where possible. So again, this is not something that can be fixed overnight, but the role that data can play in is better visibility. Um, and better visibility means those business decisions are being made earlier at the right time. It's more insight. And hopefully that eventually leads to sort of, um, much more efficient, actual on the ground, some movement of products and so on. >>Yeah. That visibility is absolutely critical regardless of the global climate. Right. Talk to me last question here, since we're almost out of time, give me a little bit about your AWS partnership and then talk to me about what's next for next time. >>Um, you know, as, as a technology provider, we ended up, um, running a lot of our own infrastructure on AWS as do many of our customers. And, uh, we have been an AWS partner for multiple years, but very decently, we actually made our product available on AWS marketplace, which means that the access to our technology has become so much easier for companies. Now, uh, next law has started its journey focusing on mid to large enterprises and some of the most complex use cases out there from some of the biggest banks to some of the biggest companies in marketing to some of the core companies in retail, logistics and so on. Now what is happening is that the powerful nature of our product and the ease of use that we have given that need is coming further and further earlier in the life cycle of companies, right? So today new companies are starting up, which said, which are saying that we need to make that sort of investment in data infrastructure earlier. You know, and that's why we have seen even some very small, early startups starting to use next level to come to us for our technology. So we are very much partnered up with AWS because AWS covers the whole gamut from companies that were started yesterday to extremely large enterprises, um, and bring our technology accessible to them. >>Excellent. Well, thank you so much for joining me. It sounds like a tremendous amount of momentum and opportunity at Nexa. We appreciate your insights and best of luck to you. We look forward to hearing more. >>Thank you, Lisa. It's a pleasure talking to it's an exciting space. So time flies, when we talked about that, >>Doesn't it, it really does for sockets sound room. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the queue, leave it here for more coverage and a leader in live tech hybrid events.

(upbeat music) >> Hey everyone, and welcome back to theCUBEs continuing coverage of AWS re:invent 2021 live in Las Vegas. Lisa Martin here, with David Nicholson. We are running one of the industry's largest, most important hybrid tech events this year with AWS and its enormous ecosystem of partners. We've been talking yesterday and today about the next decade and cloud innovation. We're pleased to welcome back one of our CUBE alumni, Alan Henson, the Vice President of Pariveda Solutions. Welcome back to the program. >> Thank you, glad to be here. >> So talk to us about what's going on at Pariveda. What are some of the things that you're focused on in the energy space? >> So for us, specifically, we're looking at energy as it's redefining itself, right? It's no longer just oil and gas. It's no longer just coal. It's renewable energies, it's carbon capture, it's retail energy, it's power generation. We're trying to understand as this energy industry redefines itself, how companies are starting to participate in there and how technologies are really helping them as they redefine their business models and go through their digital transformations. >> I was doing some reading that Amazon is already the largest purchaser of renewable energy in the world and will be 100% renewable energy by 2025. Talk to me about the partnership with AWS. >> So our partnership goes back quite a while. We were one of their early partners. We saw the early potential of AWS, jumped in both feet in the deep end, and we've had a wonderful partnership ever since. More recently over the last couple of three years, as they've really matured their definition of energy, we've been right there with them, partnering with them on a number of different projects across multiple industries and really getting excited about how they define their journey going forward in the energy industry. >> We're in such a state of flux right now. We have been for quite a while, but talk about the energy transition. What is that? Why now? Are we all ready? >> Ooh, great question. So the energy transition is really about us as a society, looking to new sources of energy over fossil fuels. 83% of the world's energy today comes from fossil fuels, about 30% from coal, a little over 50% from oil and gas itself. We as a world are looking at this as this is energy that can't continue to be our primary source. It has been a pivot-able source of energy getting us here. It is cheap, it is reliable, it is abundant. It's very good at what it does today. However, it's causing harm. So we need to address that. So what we're doing looking forward is helping companies understand what does it mean to be net zero? What does it mean to monitor and capture your carbon? What does it mean to transition your business model from a pure oil and gas play to one that's looking at new energies like carbon capture, like wind, like solar. So we're helping all of these companies go through that journey as they figure out those next steps. >> So where does Pariveda come into the picture? Take this down to the level of an engagement with an energy company. Who are the people that you parachute in? >> Sure. >> To engage with the customer? Well let's talk about oil and gas first. The most near-term best solution that we're seeing is really about operational excellence. How can I better run my business so I reduce my footprint? Am I having better maintenance to reduce accidental spills? Am I controlling my unexpected emissions, like flaring? How can I use technology to help me run my business better? Then we have companies in the retail energy, who are looking at their customer base who are purchasing large amounts of energy, who they themselves are striving to be net zero by 2050, 2060 and creating solutions for them so they can begin to capture their carbon solutions. So we typically parachute in a couple of different types of groups. Pariveda is both an advisory services firm and a technology services firm. So based upon where a company is in their journey, we may start more in the strategy space, working with the C-Suite. What does it mean to build and structure an organization to strategically go after this new energy space or perhaps they're focusing more on operational excellence. They're trying to figure out how to leverage technology and process, to run their business better, more cost effectively. More importantly, more ESG friendly. >> ESG is a big buzzword these days. You were talking about conversations at the C-Suite level? Has it always been there or is that something that with climate change and all the things going on, you think of, you know, Hurricane Ida, the drought in California and the fires, the flooding in Washington, is that something that is now more of a focus of the C-suite level? >> I think it has to be. Global warming first became mainstream back in the seventies, when we first started realizing there was going to be an impact from our use of fossil fuels. Originally, it wasn't quite sure the scientific data wasn't there necessarily to support it. But now we're starting to see that there is a climate change. Whether or not it's caused by fossil fuels is a debate for another day. But we are starting to see that. As a result, we're also starting to see a lot of pressures coming from various different areas of our world, the financial industry, wanting to become a lot more transparent about their investment holdings. Which means they're looking at their portfolio and choosing whether or not to put investment into capital projects, which is the heart of oil and gas companies. We're seeing social pressers, not just with campaigns and protests, but where people are choosing to work, the products they're choosing to buy, the brand that they're using to associate their identity. And that's also creating pressures for the C-Suite to start to pay attention because that impacts their whole pipeline of talent. So I think we're starting to see that because of those impacts becoming much more far reaching than just some scientific publications. >> Well, the focus on people is critical. You know, we talk about often people process technology, but the people focus is critical, especially since this has such, from an optics perspective, global visibility. >> Yes, people is critically important, not just from a talent acquisition, but also from a talent development perspective. These organizations are going to be going through some pretty dramatic changes. They're going to be leveraging technology they're already familiar with, perhaps some processes they're already familiar with, but they're ultimately moving into new industries, new competitive markets. So you need to not only be able to recruit the top talent by promoting an image that people can align to, but also be able to build that talent internally so that you can make them effective as you go through these business model transformations. >> You know, there's been a theme that we've seen just in the first full day today here at AWS re:invent. And that theme is that the AWS ecosystem is thriving and critical to the success of what AWS is developing. You've given a great example of an organization, your organization, that connects or bridges the divide between technology and the value that technology can bring. You said it at the outset, you're not going in and talking technology first, typically. It's, let's talk about strategy. Let's talk about people and culture, and then let's find the tools that are best suited to leverage to achieve the goals. Because you started talking about energy, and it's like, well, so which compute instance do I need for that, exactly? Somebody has to connect those dots. >> Absolutely. That's what I love about AWS. They offer a broad suite of services in their overall cloud infrastructure that allow you to start in multiple areas. Let's start with one of the very first projects that we got into that really focused on operational excellence and improving how the organization ran its business. This is a public reference, I'm going to go ahead and say it, we did work with AWS, partnering with them at ExxonMobil to help them redefine how they collaborate with their engineering procurement and construction companies. So this was a cloud platform that allowed them to change the way they interface with those vendors as they took on these large capital projects. We were able to take time out of the system, help that organization run more profitably, which allows them to invest in that new energy technology. Then we moved to retail energy where we've been looking at a large adoption in IOT technologies. That IOT capability of AWS allows organizations to monitor their infrastructure, understand how their equipment is performing, where carbon emissions might be occurring, or other greenhouse gases might be occurring, and bringing that in. Then you bring in the AL and ML stack capabilities. One of the leading ways of detecting emissions right now is image machine learning around emissions, looking at satellite photos to see if there are changes in the atmosphere where there might be a methane leak. So all these technologies work together to help us derive better answers for how to be a better energy company and how to be a more environmentally friendly corporation. >> What's the customer flywheel like? You know, often we talk with AWS there, they talk about really-- we start backwards. We start from the customer, we work forward, our customer obsession. We saw the NASCAR slides this morning of all the logos and I'm sure many more that didn't fit. But talk to me about the alignment between Pariveda, your focus on the customers, how they help you guys innovate and create new solutions, I imagine similar culturally to AWS. >> That's one of my favorite aspects about being a premier partner with AWS is the cultural alignment. We have a process that we call right to left faking. It's beginning with business outcomes before we ever look at the technology, ever start to design the solution, ever start to build that solution. Are we meeting the end user's needs, and where that culturally aligns with AWS is it aligns with their working backwards process where they sit with their primary end users and pick some point in the future and say, if I were to do a press release today, announcing the solution that we just built, what would it say? And then if I had questions, I wanted people to be able to find answers to the frequently asked questions. What would be in those frequently asked questions and what would those answers look like? So those two approaches to starting with the right to left business outcome focus helps us begin with the most important thing that we call "jobs to be done". So we're not working on a symptom, we're working on the actual problem. And that's where we've really aligned with AWS and our cultures have helped us focus on the most critical issues at hand. >> So we've talked a lot about energy and your affiliation with AWS in these efforts, but tell us a little more about Pariveda in terms of in a more broad sense. What's the history? >> Sure. >> Give us the pitch. >> Yeah, absolutely. Pariveda has been around for over 18 years. It started with a vision that our mission should be about developing people to their fullest potential. Start there and everything else will come. Since then, we've developed into both a strategy services firm and a technology services firm where we want to bring together what we consider to be the three primary components of an enterprise architecture. Basically business, product, technology, all wrapped around strategy. And so we want to focus on those areas when we use those to help deliver projects. So whether it's technology, whether we're helping travel and hospitality companies that you probably would recognize, or we're working with sports leagues to help rebrand, we're working in the agricultural industry to change how they capture data from equipment in the field. To working in the medical industry, redefining the way that doctors work with your patients by capturing your entire conversation for them. So they're spending less time translating their notes and instead evaluating their notes to ensure top quality health care, to working energy. So we're based in North America. We have ten offices in the U.S., one in Toronto. We're about 750 strong. And we are really focused on deliberate growth versus just exponential growth. >> Well the outcomes focus is absolutely critical, as you talked about earlier. For every organization, you know, one of the things that we learned during the last 22 months is that real-time data access is no longer a "nice to have". It's absolutely essential. But we're also seeing every company's becoming a data company, but they have to learn how. How can we work with technology partners like AWS, like Pariveda, to be able to capture the value that it -- unlock it quickly so that we can iterate and be able to deliver, especially in this interesting climate that we're in and pivot and pivot and pivot. So that outcomes focus that Pariveda has, is really critical for enabling businesses in every industry to be able to survive and thrive these days. >> You said it well, we agree with you completely. What we've designed at Pariveda is what we call the modern data enterprise, where it looks at the holistic vision of becoming a data company, everything from governance to technology choices, to how I structure my organization to have the right roles, the right leadership, the right executive support, and thinking about the full picture of delivering a successful data platform so that we can really focus on something that one of my mentees calls "data liquidity". It's the ability of a company to convert their data to value as quickly as possible. In order to do that, you have to come at it from multiple angles. >> You do, and that's a competitive differentiator these days. >> Yes, absolutely. It's more than just "Let me bring you a data link and hookup some data pipelines". Again, if that's where you start, you're probably not starting in the right place. We want to start with the end users. What questions are they answering? What jobs they trying to get done? And then moving back and say, well, what data do we need? And what form do we need and how do we present it to them so they can do their job extremely well and create their own competitive differentiation. >> Right. That's really critical. Last question is -- we have just a few seconds left here, Alan -- is so much announced today alone. This is, like David said, the first full day of coverage at re:invent, but from a visionary perspective, what are some of the things that we can expect to see from Pariveda as we finish the year 2021 and enter 2022? >> So let me speak a little selfishly to the energy. What you are going to see is us as an organization are going to work side-by-side with AWS energy to help shape the picture. What does it mean to be an energy company? As these industries start to converge, we're going to build more holistic platforms and more holistic approaches so organizations can figure out "How do I still do the business I need to do today to fund the business I need to so tomorrow?" And you're going to start to see us bringing better messaging to that on both strategy, technology, and product approaches. >> Awesome. Alan, thank you for joining David and me, talking about what's going on with power data, awesome approach. I love the people focus. Great stuff. >> Lisa, David, thank you for having me. >> Oh, our pleasure. For David Nicholson, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the global leader in live tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Welcome to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. The digital version. I'm Lisa Martin and I'm here with Todd Cary Thomas, the global head of the A. W s business group at Congressman Todd. It's great to have you on the program. >>Thanks. Great to be here. >>Unfortunately, we're not all cramped together in a massive space in Las Vegas, but it's great that we still get to come together virtually so. I want to just give our audience kind of an update on the Cognizant AWS strategic partnership. What's going on there? >>Sure. So a lot of exciting things. I mean, it's been a tough year, obviously, for for all of us in 2020. But one of the bright spots One of the exciting things for us is cognizant has been the announcement of the best business group and really a strategic relationship with AWS. It's just a great statement to the market that we're taking cloud seriously. We're taking a W s seriously, and it really is a core component of our go to market. It's a core component of how our customers right now are looking at what their plans are post pandemic, right? And how we survive 2020. If you look at the just the explosion of cloud, we all understand how critical now cloud computing is to all businesses, regardless of vertical, regardless of industry and what you're trying to accomplish. So for us it was it was really about putting a stake in the ground and saying, A W S is going to be a critical critical player for us and our go to market for 2020 and obviously beyond >>and beyond. I think we're all looking forward to that beyond talk to me a little bit about the core purpose, the mission and how you're going, how customers are reacting to this news about the strategic shift. >>Well, there's a couple of tracks. I mean, you know, if your ah large company looking at cloud, you're going down, the cost take out right, we're gonna go, and we're gonna be more efficient or or we're gonna go down the innovation track and for us, we really want to be able to serve our customers running both of those tracks in parallel. And so the role of the business group is to really be an innovation engine is to get into those those those deep, detailed layers of where clients are going through planning and assessment and trying to figure out how they want to leverage AWS. And on the other side, you know, there's a lot of legacy applications and appliances out that environments. And so how can the AWS business group that cognizant go in and help with that cost? Take out go accelerate the move from legacy applications and on Prem to Cloud. And so for us, it is much about the technology as it is about the outcome and is exactly how we're accomplishing gotten. So what I mean by that is that really being more creative, being an active player, an active investor and bringing A W. S and early in the solution ING cycle figuring out how we can drive ultimately the outcome for the customer? Because I think AWS will tell you as we we will tell you it's really not about technology. It's not about cognizant. It's not about a W s. It's about clients figuring out what they want how to get it and making sure that AWS and Cognizant can deliver that outcome together. >>It is all about outcomes, especially in these times when when businesses have pivoted multiple times in the last nine months probably will continue to do so and need toe have not just the right technology foundation, the right partners and the right culture to be able to get on board and continue to pivot. Talk to me, though, um, talked about, have your conversations within customer organizations change. Like knowing how much acceleration we're seeing of digital transformation. Is this a board level C suite conversation? Is that where you're starting? What's kind of that conversation like these days? >>Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's happening at all levels. What one of the main things that's happened about Cloud is that it's impacted literally every level of an organization. And and now, most of the time, though, we're seeing conversations enter at the business level. So whether that's a a new product to bring the market, or maybe it's cleaning up critical systems, maybe like policy administration or supply chain systems. Whatever the outcome in the business problem that they're trying to solve. That's really where the conversation starts. And and that really starts at the the See really see Exelon C suite all the way down to even the programming and application level. Those types of groups of really looking at A. W S and Cognizant has an enabler to solve those kinds of business issues, and and it's really driven out of really 2020. So obviously we exposed a lot of stuff with clients and and worker productivity with security, remote access to information. It's been a really tough year, but it's also exposed a lot of gaps and a lot of deficiencies. And those gaps and deficiencies didn't care if that was that the sea level or that was at a programming level or regional level or vertical. It just exposed everything. And so, and that's where we saw cloud consumption go up. But most companies weren't ready for that. They weren't prepared and were optimized and ready to take on that kind of kind of cloud consumption, you know, and and the overarching theme here of customer experience, employee experience, you know, how do we fix all those problems and also deliver really a limitless bandwidth experience to that individual user and ensure that while we're solving outcome, we're also gaining traction, saying with customer acquisitions or were quickly deploying. Applications were doing something good at every turn when we talk about eight of us >>like that. And as I was thinking and speaking of doing something good, that what you were talking about with the new business group, opportunities that come out of, you know, they always say stuff for these mother of invention. But you saw those gaps and they were exposed by this particular time. But it's just an opportunity to be able to identify them, help them and help customers with this light switch moment of especially those that were kind of caught off guard. Oh my gosh, we can't operate. We can't get to our data centers. We've gotta be able to have a remote workforce and get accessibility. How did you help them from that cultural perspective of that light switch moment of adopting cloud? Knowing that it's maybe in the beginning was a survival mechanism. >>Sure, there's been a couple of light switch moments. I mean, one of them is certainly you hit on. It is people in process. You know, Cloud is certainly about technology, but the people in process the organizational change management, the impact that cloud hands on a development community on a company as a whole, the acceleration the the pace at which you have to change and be flexible and agile to embrace a cloud. Native architectures is unlike most companies have ever done before, and so it's a failed strategy to just simply focus on the tech. You have to look a change. Management people and culture and systems. And how these how these everything works together in unison. And the other light switch moment has been how hard cloud is. You know, we saw early adoption. I mean, we we jumped out of the gate and that 1st 10 2030% of workloads just flew to the cloud. This was simple. Everyone was giving some amazing public statements of of how much we were gonna embrace Cloud. But what's happened is that we've got to the hard stuff like the on Prem, the legacy, the work of the stuff that just is stuck. It doesn't want to move, and it really requires some deep dive systems analysis, business analysis cost analysis to trying to figure out you know what services and data and everything is connected. And how do we disconnect that move to the Kyle transform that optimize it, but then also manage the company in between? Because a lot of companies now, in fact, almost 90% of CXS will tell you they've had to embrace the hybrid architecture for this reason. So now how do we help our clients manage applications in different environments, moving a different paces and make sure that they were transformed and optimizing and getting to a digital state as fast as possible? And so there's a lot. There's a lot to unpack there, but that's really the purpose of the AWS business group is to focus on all of these things all at the same time being able to drive that outcome we talked about earlier, but also making sure that we're keeping you know, our clients lights on right. We're keeping the boat afloat, that they can be successful in a very complex environment, very challenging environment, but then also, from a technology standpoint, >>something that that we talked about a number of times in terms of the people in the processes and the culture. I'm curious. Are you having conversations with customers or helping them kind of bring? As you said, it's not. This is not just about the technology knowing the business drivers air leaving this are you? Are you helping customers have those conversations between business units and the I t folks to really understand? This is what we've done so far. This This is the complexity that we have, but we've got to get over here is quickly as possible. And we've gotta bring these two cultures together, >>right? Yeah, we talked about a little bit early. It's there's the conductivity problem that that companies have because there's again there's that tech track and then there's people tracks and you've got to be able to blend those two. And that really, when you when you boil down the role of the age of this business group, within cognizant and within our client environments, that's really what we're working on is how do we pull in all of these disparate pieces and I like Thio. You wanna grab the front seat when you're a teenager, everybody's driving called shotgun. Well, we want to bring our clients along in that shotgun position, right? Be able to see how an enterprise class deployment works, how apt transformation and modernization works. Ah, lot of our clients are very open and transparent. So, like I don't really know how all of this is going to work. I'd really love to see. I would love to see this in motion. And so for us, we're very transparent of these types of engagements. This is not a cognizant showing up and delivering in a output or an outcome for a customer. It's making our clients better. It's making them mawr aggressive and more interested in more excited about cloud and transformation. Because, you know, the first couple of steps like we talked about a cloud typically is easy. It gets more complex. But as we as we saw for these complexities, we open up new pockets of data and new applications and new groups and regions and things that could move. And as soon as we start to move some of those heavier pieces, new opportunities absolutely explode. And and that's really what we want to do is take that message to our clients internally, evangelized the opportunity they have with AWS to take advantage of that and really challenge the mindset through innovation. You know, through new products, new go to market initiatives. What do they want to accomplish? Because, really, we're in a time that's very rare. Assed faras. I've I've been technology a long time. This is the first time that I can remember that the client had come to us and come to a W s ask for an outcome, ask for something and we could deliver it. And it's not gonna be a science project. We can actually commit to it, >>not not rocket science. So for those customers who would be able shotgun and gotten in the front with you guys put are some of the best practices that you've seen that you'd recommend our audience, pay attention to >>definitely assess. You see a lot of companies that they marked the finish line, and I always tell customers that were there is no finish line of digital. There is no finish line in cloud, and they've pretty much marked it. And this is what success looks like. I think success in cloud is absolutely a journey. It's a work in progress, always, and so you need to assess and look at where you want to be. Not in six months, not in 18 months. Where do you wanna be next month? Well, what's what are your immediate plans on immediate business pressures? Things that you need to solve right now, And that's what we focus on. But we we need to understand the environment. We need to understand the applications and work and what's in play and and really get a true assessment of the estate. And then we blend that with business outcomes, not technical, not a bunch of letters in acronyms and things like that. We don't wanna convoluted that, really. The effort is to try to figure out what you want to accomplish. And then, from an advisory standpoint, really put those hooks in and build a solid plan. And then we can execute. Now, whether we we execute that plan, it 100% pace or a 30% or 40% pace, it's about having that plan and at least the right direction, but a direction that's quickly attainable because, as we've seen, anything can happen. >>You're not kidding. We haven't seen that anything can happen. So as we look into going into calendar year 2021 hoping for a lot of great things. What are some of the key areas that cognizance a W s business group is gonna be focusing your investments >>on? Well, what we've seen from A clients and we hear them loud and players thio here from them about industry and vertical specific solutions. And so we are in in the emotions right now across the globe and my team building out vertical specific and I p based offerings on AWS things around S a P. Things about Amazon connect things that that really impacted clients business because it is hard. I mean, it's it just to be in total transparency. As a global systems integrator, it's hard to rise above a lot of noise And what? How you rise above that is really to be unique on AWS. And so, from a client standpoint, you know, one of the things they're going to get different from cognizant from saying some of our larger competitors and I will tell you one of the things obviously is complete commitment we have in a W s business group that gets up in the morning. Is Onley concerned about our client success in a W s. And so some of the things that we're gonna be born out of that direction are these vertical specific solutions or in in development of pipe. We've had amazing run with AWS and Cloud. I mean, we have over 600 projects deployed over almost 10,000 certified, uh, 10,000 certified. Uh, resource is on DSO for us. Super excited to bring that talent to market along with solutions. But again, it's not about what we have. It's really about what our clients need. >>But it's great advice that you're telling, You know, your clients look short term because we've got to be able to get just to hear and to hear. It's not necessarily about having this this 2020 vision. I don't think anybody wants that anymore about what's gonna happen in 12 months or 18 months. It's we've gotta be able t o get businesses to pivot quickly and leverage the technology to fuel those business outcomes. As you said in kind of shorter and faster time increments, because, as we all know, 2021 calendar changes and we're probably still going to be in quite a pickle, I guess for ah time longer. But I also from what you've said, it seems like you you're uncovering so many opportunities that what comes and kindle you do with a W s what you can deliver for businesses and how you can help the cultural shift so that these businesses thrive going forward, get out of that survival mode and actually be able to take advantage of those all those data sources that you talked about to deliver new products and new services, maybe even get into new markets. >>Yeah, most definitely. It is about time to market. And in the one of the things that we've seen to, his clients are getting away from this modernization first, then migration. And and that was really a big thing. When we started down this cloud journey, we saw the market reacted. Well, let me get my house in order. Let me start modernizing. Let me clean up some service layers and we saw some anti patterns. Let me let me figure all that out, and then I'm gonna go to cloud. And we've seen really the direct opposite of that, especially with cove it and during a pandemic, is Okay. How fast can I get these systems and data to the cloud? Alright. And then we'll worry about transformation. And so for us we've pivoted. I think very well is cognizant over overall is a company and the specific, innovative this business group to really maintain multiple work streams that that run on Prem right to be ableto fix and attack those workloads and make that on prime environment efficient. But move those applications while we're doing that. Move those a w s and then concurrently build a transformation plan around those applications and things that are now in the cloud around NWS. >>Excellent title. You've been busy, so I'm not let you get back to work. But great stuff that you guys are working on together with AWS, we look forward to seeing what's to come. >>Thank you, Lisa >>for Todd Kerry. Find Lisa Martin and you're watching the Cube

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCUBE conversation. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in our Palo Alto studios today for theCUBE conversation. We're talking about data. We're always talking about data and it's really interesting. You know we like to go out and get you the first person insight from the people that start the companies, run the companies, the practitioners and, and, and get the insight directly from them. We also like to go out and get original research and hear from original research. And this is a great opportunity to hear from both. So we're excited to have, and welcome back into the studio. He's Aaron Kalb. He's the co founder of Alation, many time CUBE alumni. Aaron. Great to see you. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. It's good to be here. >> Yeah, it's very cool. But today it's a special, a special thing. We've never done this before with you. You guys are releasing a brand new report called, the Alation State of Data Culture Report. So really interesting report. A lot of great information that we're going to dig in here for the next few minutes. But before we do, tell us kind of the history of this report. This is a, the kind of the inaugural release. What was kind of behind it, why did you guys do this? And give us a little background before we get into the details. >> Absolutely. So, yes, that's exactly right. It's debuting today that we plan to kind of update this research quarterly we going to see the trends over time. And this emerged because, you know, I, part of my job, I talk to chief data officers and chief analytics officers across our customer base and prospects. And I keep hearing anecdotally over and over that establishing a data culture, is often the number one priority for these data leaders and for these organizations. And so we wanted to really say, can we quantify that? Can we agree upon a definition of data culture? And can we create sort of a simple yardstick to more objectively measure where organizations are on this sort of data maturity curve to get it into culture. >> Right. I love it. So you created this data, data index right? The data culture index. And, and I think it's important to look at methodology. I think people, a lot of times go right to the results on reports before talking about the methodologies. And let's talk about the methodologies cause we're supposed to be talking about data, right? So you talked to 300, some odd executives, correct. And I think it's really interesting and you broke it down into three kind of buckets of data literacy, if you will. Data search and discovery, number one, data, two kind of literacy in terms of their ability to work with the data. And then the third bucket is really data governance. And then in, in the form ABCD, you gave him a four point score and basically, are they doing it well? Are they doing it in the majority of the time? Are they doing it about half, they got one or they got a zero and you get this four point scale and you end up with a 12 point scale which we're all familiar with from, from school, from an A to an, A minus and B, et cetera. Just dig it a little bit on those three categories and how you chose those. So the first one again is kind of the data search and discovery, you know can they find it and then their competency, if you will and then a governance and compliance. Kind of dig into each of those three buckets a little bit. >> For sure. So, so the, the end goal in data culture, is to have an organization in which data is valued and decisions are made based on data and evidence, right? Versus a culture in which we go with the highest paid person's opinion or what we did last quarter or any of these other ways things get done. And so the idea is to make that possible, as you said you've to be able to find the data when you need it. That's the data search and discovery. You've to be able to interpret that data correctly and draw valid conclusions from it. And that's a data literacy, excuse me. And both of those are contingent upon having data governance in place. So that data is well-defined and has high data quality, as well as other aspects, so that it is possible to find it and understand it properly. >> Right. And what are the things too that I think is really important that we call that, and again, we're going to dive into the details, is your perceived execution versus the reported execution by the people that are actually providing data. And I think you've found and you've highlighted on specific slides that you know, there's not necessarily a match there. And sometimes that you know, what you perceive is happening, isn't necessarily what's happening when you go down and query the people in the field. So really important to come up with a number. And I think a, I think you said this is going to be an ongoing thing over a period of time. So you kind of start to see longitudinal changes in these organizations. >> Absolutely. And we're very excited to see those, those trends over time. But even at the outset is this you know, very striking effect emerges which is, as you said, if we ask one of these you know, 300 data leaders, you know, all around the world actually, you know, if we ask, how is the data culture at your company overall, and this is very broad general top down way and have them graded on the sort of SaaS scale. You know, we get results where there's a large gap between kind of that level of maturity and what emerges in a bottom up methodology excuse me, in which you ask about, you know governance and literacy and, and such kind of by department and in a more bottom up way. And so we do see that that, you know, it can be helpful, even for data people to have a, a more granular metric and framework for quantifying their progress. >> Right? Let's jump into some of the results. It's, it's a fascinating, they're kind of all over the map, but there's some definite trends. One of the trends you talked about is that there's a lot of questions on the quality of the data. But that's a real inhibitor to people. Whether that suspicion is because it's not good data. And I don't know, this question for you, is, is, do they think it's not relevant to the decision that's being made? Is it an incomplete data set or the wrong data set? It seems to be that keeps coming up over and over about, decision-makers not necessarily having confidence in the data. What, can you share a little bit more color around that? >> Yeah, it's quite interesting actually. So what we find is that 90%. So 90 people, 10 executives (indistinct) to question the data sometimes often or always. But the part that's maybe disappointing or concerning is the two thirds of executives are believed to ignore the data and make a decision kind of pushing the data aside which is really quite striking when you think about it, why have all this data, if more often than not you're sort of disregarding it to make your final answer. And so you're absolutely correct when we dug into why, what are the reasons behind pushing it aside. Data quality was number one. And I think it is a question of, Oh, is the data inaccurate? Is it out of date, these sort of concerns sort of we, we hear from customers and prospects. But as we dig in deeper in the survey results, excuse me, we, we see some other reasons behind that. One is a lack of collaboration between the data analytics folks and the business folks. And so there's a question of, I don't know exactly where this data came from or to your point kind of how it was produced. What was the methodology? How was it sourced? And maybe because of that disconnect is a lack of trust. So trust really is the ultimate I think, failure to having data culture really take root. >> Right? And it's trust in this trust, as you said, not only in the data per se, the source of the data, the quality of the data, the relevance of the data but also the people who are providing you with the data. And obviously you get, you get some data sets. Sometimes you didn't get other data sets. So, that's really I'm a little bit disconcerting. The other thing I thought was kind of interesting is, it seems to be consistent that the, the primary reason that people are using big data projects is around operations and operations efficiency, a little bit about compliance, but, you know, it's interesting we had you on at the MIT CDOIQ, Chief Data Information Officer quality symposium, and you talked about the goodness of people moving from kind of a defensive posture to an offensive posture, you know using data in terms of product development and innovation. And, and what comes across in this survey is that's kind of down the list behind you know, kind of operational efficiency. We're seeing a little bit of governance and regulation but the, the quest for data as a tool for innovation, didn't really shine through in this report. >> Well, you know, it's very interesting. It depends whether you look at the aggregate level or you break things down a little bit more. So one thing we did after we got that zero to 12 scale on the data culture index or DCI, is it actually, we were able to break it down into thirds. And among the sort of bottom third, it has the least well-established data culture by this yardstick. We've found that governance and regulatory compliance, was the number one application of data. But among the top third of respondents, we actually found the opposite where things like providing a great customer experience, doing product innovation, those sort of things actually came to the fore and governance fell behind. So I think there is this curve where, It's table stakes to get the sort of defense side of data figured out. And then you can move on to offense in using data to make your organization meet its meet its other goals. >> Right. Right. And then I wanted to get your take on kind of the democratization of data, right? This is a, this is a trend that's been going on, and really, I think you said before you know, your guys' whole mission is to empower curious and rational world to give people the ability to ask the right questions have the right data and get the right answer. So, you know, we've seen democratization in terms of the access to the data, the access to the tools, the ability to do something with the data and the tool, and then the actual authority to execute business decision based on that. The results on that seem a little bit split here because a lot of the problems seem to be focused on leadership, not necessarily taking a data based decision move, but on the good hand a lot of people trying to break down data silos and make data more accessible for a larger group of people. So that more people in the organization are making data based decisions. This seems kind of like this little bit of a bifurcation between the C suite and everybody else trying to get their job done. >> Absolutely. There's always this question of you know, sort of the, that organizational wide initiative and then what's happening on the ground. One thing we saw that was very heartening and aligns with our customers index success, is a real emphasis being placed on having data governance and data context and data literacy factors sort of be embedded at the point of use. To not expecting people, to just like take a course and look things up and kind of end up with their workflow to be able to use data quickly and accurately and, and interpret it in varied ways. So that was really exciting to see as, as, as a initiative. It sort of bridges that gap along with initiatives to have more collaboration and integration between the data people and the business people. because really you know, they exist to serve one another. But in terms of the disconnect between the C suite and other parts of the org, there was a really interesting inverse correlation. Well, or maybe it's not interesting how you look at it, but basically, you know, when we talk to C level executives and ask, you know, does the C suite ignore data? Do they question data et cetera, those numbers came in lower than when we talked to, you know, senior director about the C suite right? It's sort of the farther you get, and there's a difference there, you know, from my perspective, I almost wonder whether that distance is actually is more objective viewpoint. And when you're in that role, it's hard to even see your cognitive biases and your tendency to ignore a data when it doesn't suit you. >> Right. Right. So there's, there's some other interesting things here. So one of them is, you know, kind of predictors, right? One of the whole reasons to do studies and collect data so that we can have some predictive ability. And, and it comes out here that the reporting structure is a strong predictor of a company's data tier structure. So, you know, there's the whole rise of the chief data officers and the chief analytics officer and the chief data and analytics officer and lots of conversations about those roles and what exactly are those roles and who do they report to. Your study finds a pretty compelling leading indicator that if that role is reporting to either the CEO or the executive board, which is often a one in the same person, that that's actually a terrific indicator of success in moving to a more data centric culture. >> That's absolutely correct. So we found that that top third of organizations on the data culture index were much more likely to have a chief data executive, a CDO, CAO or CDAO. In fact, they're more likely to have folks with the analytics in their title because in some organizations, data is thought to mean sort of raw data, infrastructural defense and analytics is sort of where it gets you know, infused into business processes and value. But certainly that top third is much more likely to have the chief data executive reporting into the executive board or CEO when the highest ranking data executive is under the CIO or some other part of the organization, those orgs tend to score a far lower on the DCI. >> Right. Right. So it's interesting, you know you're a really interesting guy even doing this for a while. You were at Siri before you were at Alation. So you have a really good feel for kind of what data can do and can't do and natural human or natural language processing and, and, and human voice interaction with these devices, a really interesting case study, and they can do a really good job within a small defined data set and instruction set, but they don't do necessarily so well once you kind of get outside how, how they're trained. And you've talked a lot about how metaphor shaped the way that we think and I know you and Dave talked about data oil and data lakes I don't want to necessarily go down that whole path but I do think it's important. And what came out of the study and the way people think about data. You know, there's a lot of conversation. How do you value data? Is data, you know it used to just be an expense that we had to buy servers to store the stuff we weren't sure what we ever did with it. So I wonder if there's any, you know, kind of top level metaphors level, kind of a thought or process or framing in the companies that you study that came out. maybe not necessarily in the top line data, but maybe in some of the notes that help define why some people, you know are being successful at making this transition and putting, you know kind of data out front of their decision processing versus data, either behind as a supporting thing or maybe data, I just don't have time with it or I don't trust it, or God knows where you got that, and this is not the data that I wanted. You know, was there any, you know, kind of tangental or anecdotal stuff that came out of this study that's more reflective of, of the softer parts of a data culture versus the harder parts in terms of titles and roles and, and, and job responsibilities. >> Yeah. It's a really interesting place to explore. I do think there's a, I don't want to make this overly simplistic group binary, but at the end of the day you know, like anything else within an organization, you can view data as a liability to say, okay, we have for example, you know, customer's names and phone numbers and passwords, and we just need to prevent an adverse event in which there's a leak or some sort of InfoSec problem that could cause, you know, bad press and fines and other negative consequences. And I think the issue there is if data's a liability, the most you know, the best case is that it's worth zero as opposed to some huge negative on your company's balance sheet. And, and I think, you know, intuitively, if you really want to prevent data misuse and data problems, one fail safe, but I think ultimately in its own way risky way to do that was just not collect any data, right. And not store it. So I think that the transition is to say, look data must be protected and taken care of that's step zero. But you know, it's really just the beginning and data is this asset that can be used to inform the huge company level strategic decisions that are made in annual planning at the board level, down to the millions of little decisions every day in the work of people in customer support and in sales and in product management and in, you know, various roles that just across industries. And I think once you have that, that shift, you know the upside is potentially, you know, unbounded. >> Right. And, and it just changes the way, the way you think. And suddenly instead of saying, Oh, data needs to be kind of hidden away, it's more like, Oh, people need to be trained on data use and empowered with data. And it's all about not if it's used or if it's misused but really how it's used and why it's used, what it's being used for to make a real impact. >> Right. Right. And it's funny when I just remember it being back in business school one of the great things that help teach is to think in terms of data, right. And you always have the infamous center consulting interview question, How many manhole covers are in Manhattan. Right. So, you know, to, to, to start to think about that problem from a data centric, point of view really gives you a leg up and, and even, you know where to start and how to attack those types of problems. And I thought it was interesting you know, talking about challenges for people to have a more data centric, point of view. It's interesting. The reports says, basically everybody said there's all kinds of challenges around data quality and compliance, and they had democratization. But the bottom companies, the bottom companies said that the biggest challenge was lack of buy in from company leadership. So I guess the good news bad news is that there's a real opportunity to make a significant change and get your company from the bottom third to a middle third or a top third, simply by taking a change in attitude about putting data in a much more central role in your decision making process. 'Cause all the other stuff's kind of operational, execution challenges that we all have, not enough people, blah, blah, blah. But in terms of attitude of leadership and prioritization, that's something that's very easy to change if you so choose. And really seems to be the key to unlock this real journey as opposed to the minutiae of a lot of the little details that that are a challenge for everybody. >> Absolutely. In your changing attitudes might be the easiest thing or the hardest thing depending on (indistinct). But I think you're absolutely right. The first step, which, which which could, maybe it should be easy, is admitting that you have a problem or maybe to put it more positively, realizing you have an opportunity. >> I love that. And then just again, looking at the top tier companies, the other thing that I thought was pretty interesting in this study is, I'm looking at it here, is getting champions in each of the operational segments. So rather than, I mean, a chief data officer is important and you know, somebody kind of at the high level to shepherd it in the executive suite, as we just discussed, but within each of the individual tasks and functions and roles, whether that's operations or customer service or product development or operational efficiency, you need some type of champion, some type of person, you know, banging the gavel, collecting the data, smoothing out the complexities, helping people get their thing together. And again, another way to really elevate your position on the score. >> Absolutely. And I think this idea of again, bridging between, you know, if data is centralized you have a chance to try to really get excellent practices within the data org. But even it becomes even more essential to have those ambassadors, people who are in the business and understand all the business context who can sort of make the data relevant, identify the key areas where data can really help, maybe demystify data and pick the right metaphors and the right examples to make it real for the people in their function. >> Right. Right. So Aaron has a lot of great stuff. People can go to the website at alation.com. I'm sure you'll have a link to this, a very prominently displayed, but, and they should and they should check it out and really think about it and think about how it applies to their own situation, their own department, company et cetera. I just wanted to give you the last word before we before we sign off, you know, kind of what was the most you know, kind of positive affirmation or not the most but one or two of the most outcome affirming outcomes of this exercise. And what were one or two of the things that were a little concerning or, you know, kind of surprises on the downside that, that came out of this research? >> Yeah. So I think one thing that was maybe surprising or concerning the biggest one is sort of where we started with that disconnect between, you know, what people would, say as an off the cuff overall assessment and the disconnect between that and what emerges when we go department by department and (indistinct) to be pillars of data culture from such a discovery to data literacy, to data governance. I think that disconnect, you know, should give one pause. I think certainly it should make one think, Hmm. Maybe I shouldn't look from 10,000 feet, but actually be a little more systematic. And considering the framework I use to assess data culture that is the most important thing to my organization. I think though, there's this quote that you move what you measure, just having this hopefully simple but not simplistic yardstick to measure data culture and the data culture index should help people be a little bit more realistic in their quantification and they track their progress, you know, quarter over quarter. So I think that's very promising. I think another thing is that, you know sometimes we ask, how long have you had this initiative? How much progress have you made? And it can sometimes seem like pushing a boulder uphill. Obviously the COVID pandemic and the economic impacts of that has been really tragic and really hard. You know, a tiny silver lining in that is the survey results showed that organizations have really observed a shift in how much they're using data because sometimes things are changing but it's like a frog in boiling water. You don't realize it. And so you just assume that the future is going to look like the recent past and you don't look at the data or you ignore the data or you miss parts of the data. And a lot of organizations said, you know COVID was this really troubling wake up call, but they could even after this crisis is over, producing enduring change which people were consulting data more and making decisions in a more data driven way. >> Yeah, certainly an accelerant that, that is for sure whether you wanted it, didn't want it, thought you had it at the time, didn't have time. You know COVID is definitely digital transformation accelerant and data is certainly the thing that powers that. Well again, it's the Alation State of Data Culture Report available, go check it at alation.com. Aaron always great to catch up and again, thank you for, for doing the work and supporting this research. And I think it's really important stuff. And it's going to be interesting to see how it changes over time. 'Cause that's really when these types of reports really start to add value. >> Thanks for having me, Jeff and I really look forward to discussing some of those trends as the research is completed. >> All right. Thanks a lot, Aaron, take care. Alright. He's Aaron and I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE, Palo Alto. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCUBE conversation. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in our Palo Alto studios today for theCUBE conversation. We're talking about data. We're always talking about data and it's really interesting. You know we like to go out and get you the first person insight from the people that start the companies, run the companies, the practitioners and, and, and get the insight directly from them. We also like to go out and get original research and hear from original research. And this is a great opportunity to hear from both. So we're excited to have, and welcome back into the studio. He's Aaron Kalb. He's the co founder of Alation, many time CUBE alumni. Aaron. Great to see you. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. It's good to be here. >> Yeah, it's very cool. But today it's a special, a special thing. We've never done this before with you. You guys are releasing a brand new report called, the Alation State of Data Culture Report. So really interesting report. A lot of great information that we're going to dig in here for the next few minutes. But before we do, tell us kind of the history of this report. This is a, the kind of the inaugural release. What was kind of behind it, why did you guys do this? And give us a little background before we get into the details. >> Absolutely. So, yes, that's exactly right. It's debuting today that we plan to kind of update this research quarterly we going to see the trends over time. And this emerged because, you know, I, part of my job, I talk to chief data officers and chief analytics officers across our customer base and prospects. And I keep hearing anecdotally over and over that establishing a data culture, is often the number one priority for these data leaders and for these organizations. And so we wanted to really say, can we quantify that? Can we agree upon a definition of data culture? And can we create sort of a simple yardstick to more objectively measure where organizations are on this sort of data maturity curve to get it into culture. >> Right. I love it. So you created this data, data index right? The data culture index. And, and I think it's important to look at methodology. I think people, a lot of times go right to the results on reports before talking about the methodologies. And let's talk about the methodologies cause we're supposed to be talking about data, right? So you talked to 300, some odd executives, correct. And I think it's really interesting and you broke it down into three kind of buckets of data literacy, if you will. Data search and discovery, number one, data, two kind of literacy in terms of their ability to work with the data. And then the third bucket is really data governance. And then in, in the form ABCD, you gave him a four point score and basically, are they doing it well? Are they doing it in the majority of the time? Are they doing it about half, they got one or they got a zero and you get this four point scale and you end up with a 12 point scale which we're all familiar with from, from school, from an A to an, A minus and B, et cetera. Just dig it a little bit on those three categories and how you chose those. So the first one again is kind of the data search and discovery, you know can they find it and then their competency, if you will and then a governance and compliance. Kind of dig into each of those three buckets a little bit. >> For sure. So, so the, the end goal in data culture, is to have an organization in which data is valued and decisions are made based on data and evidence, right? Versus a culture in which we go with the highest paid person's opinion or what we did last quarter or any of these other ways things get done. And so the idea is to make that possible, as you said you've to be able to find the data when you need it. That's the data search and discovery. You've to be able to interpret that data correctly and draw valid conclusions from it. And that's a data literacy, excuse me. And both of those are contingent upon having data governance in place. So that data is well-defined and has high data quality, as well as other aspects, so that it is possible to find it and understand it properly. >> Right. And what are the things too that I think is really important that we call that, and again, we're going to dive into the details, is your perceived execution versus the reported execution by the people that are actually providing data. And I think you've found and you've highlighted on specific slides that you know, there's not necessarily a match there. And sometimes that you know, what you perceive is happening, isn't necessarily what's happening when you go down and query the people in the field. So really important to come up with a number. And I think a, I think you said this is going to be an ongoing thing over a period of time. So you kind of start to see longitudinal changes in these organizations. >> Absolutely. And we're very excited to see those, those trends over time. But even at the outset is this you know, very striking effect emerges which is, as you said, if we ask one of these you know, 300 data leaders, you know, all around the world actually, you know, if we ask, how is the data culture at your company overall, and this is very broad general top down way and have them graded on the sort of SaaS scale. You know, we get results where there's a large gap between kind of that level of maturity and what emerges in a bottom up methodology excuse me, in which you ask about, you know governance and literacy and, and such kind of by department and in a more bottom up way. And so we do see that that, you know, it can be helpful, even for data people to have a, a more granular metric and framework for quantifying their progress. >> Right? Let's jump into some of the results. It's, it's a fascinating, they're kind of all over the map, but there's some definite trends. One of the trends you talked about is that there's a lot of questions on the quality of the data. But that's a real inhibitor to people. Whether that suspicion is because it's not good data. And I don't know, this question for you, is, is, do they think it's not relevant to the decision that's being made? Is it an incomplete data set or the wrong data set? It seems to be that keeps coming up over and over about, decision-makers not necessarily having confidence in the data. What, can you share a little bit more color around that? >> Yeah, it's quite interesting actually. So what we find is that 90%. So 90 people, 10 executives (indistinct) to question the data sometimes often or always. But the part that's maybe disappointing or concerning is the two thirds of executives are believed to ignore the data and make a decision kind of pushing the data aside which is really quite striking when you think about it, why have all this data, if more often than not you're sort of disregarding it to make your final answer. And so you're absolutely correct when we dug into why, what are the reasons behind pushing it aside. Data quality was number one. And I think it is a question of, Oh, is the data inaccurate? Is it out of date, these sort of concerns sort of we, we hear from customers and prospects. But as we dig in deeper in the survey results, excuse me, we, we see some other reasons behind that. One is a lack of collaboration between the data analytics folks and the business folks. And so there's a question of, I don't know exactly where this data came from or to your point kind of how it was produced. What was the methodology? How was it sourced? And maybe because of that disconnect is a lack of trust. So trust really is the ultimate I think, failure to having data culture really take root. >> Right? And it's trust in this trust, as you said, not only in the data per se, the source of the data, the quality of the data, the relevance of the data but also the people who are providing you with the data. And obviously you get, you get some data sets. Sometimes you didn't get other data sets. So, that's really I'm a little bit disconcerting. The other thing I thought was kind of interesting is, it seems to be consistent that the, the primary reason that people are using big data projects is around operations and operations efficiency, a little bit about compliance, but, you know, it's interesting we had you on at the MIT CDOIQ, Chief Data Information Officer quality symposium, and you talked about the goodness of people moving from kind of a defensive posture to an offensive posture, you know using data in terms of product development and innovation. And, and what comes across in this survey is that's kind of down the list behind you know, kind of operational efficiency. We're seeing a little bit of governance and regulation but the, the quest for data as a tool for innovation, didn't really shine through in this report. >> Well, you know, it's very interesting. It depends whether you look at the aggregate level or you break things down a little bit more. So one thing we did after we got that zero to 12 scale on the data culture index or DCI, is it actually, we were able to break it down into thirds. And among the sort of bottom third, it has the least well-established data culture by this yardstick. We've found that governance and regulatory compliance, was the number one application of data. But among the top third of respondents, we actually found the opposite where things like providing a great customer experience, doing product innovation, those sort of things actually came to the fore and governance fell behind. So I think there is this curve where, It's table stakes to get the sort of defense side of data figured out. And then you can move on to offense in using data to make your organization meet its meet its other goals. >> Right. Right. And then I wanted to get your take on kind of the democratization of data, right? This is a, this is a trend that's been going on, and really, I think you said before you know, your guys' whole mission is to empower curious and rational world to give people the ability to ask the right questions have the right data and get the right answer. So, you know, we've seen democratization in terms of the access to the data, the access to the tools, the ability to do something with the data and the tool, and then the actual authority to execute business decision based on that. The results on that seem a little bit split here because a lot of the problems seem to be focused on leadership, not necessarily taking a data based decision move, but on the good hand a lot of people trying to break down data silos and make data more accessible for a larger group of people. So that more people in the organization are making data based decisions. This seems kind of like this little bit of a bifurcation between the C suite and everybody else trying to get their job done. >> Absolutely. There's always this question of you know, sort of the, that organizational wide initiative and then what's happening on the ground. One thing we saw that was very heartening and aligns with our customers index success, is a real emphasis being placed on having data governance and data context and data literacy factors sort of be embedded at the point of use. To not expecting people, to just like take a course and look things up and kind of end up with their workflow to be able to use data quickly and accurately and, and interpret it in varied ways. So that was really exciting to see as, as, as a initiative. It sort of bridges that gap along with initiatives to have more collaboration and integration between the data people and the business people. because really you know, they exist to serve one another. But in terms of the disconnect between the C suite and other parts of the org, there was a really interesting inverse correlation. Well, or maybe it's not interesting how you look at it, but basically, you know, when we talk to C level executives and ask, you know, does the C suite ignore data? Do they question data et cetera, those numbers came in lower than when we talked to, you know, senior director about the C suite right? It's sort of the farther you get, and there's a difference there, you know, from my perspective, I almost wonder whether that distance is actually is more objective viewpoint. And when you're in that role, it's hard to even see your cognitive biases and your tendency to ignore a data when it doesn't suit you. >> Right. Right. So there's, there's some other interesting things here. So one of them is, you know, kind of predictors, right? One of the whole reasons to do studies and collect data so that we can have some predictive ability. And, and it comes out here that the reporting structure is a strong predictor of a company's data tier structure. So, you know, there's the whole rise of the chief data officers and the chief analytics officer and the chief data and analytics officer and lots of conversations about those roles and what exactly are those roles and who do they report to. Your study finds a pretty compelling leading indicator that if that role is reporting to either the CEO or the executive board, which is often a one in the same person, that that's actually a terrific indicator of success in moving to a more data centric culture. >> That's absolutely correct. So we found that that top third of organizations on the data culture index were much more likely to have a chief data executive, a CDO, CAO or CDAO. In fact, they're more likely to have folks with the analytics in their title because in some organizations, data is thought to mean sort of raw data, infrastructural defense and analytics is sort of where it gets you know, infused into business processes and value. But certainly that top third is much more likely to have the chief data executive reporting into the executive board or CEO when the highest ranking data executive is under the CIO or some other part of the organization, those orgs tend to score a far lower on the DCI. >> Right. Right. So it's interesting, you know you're a really interesting guy even doing this for a while. You were at Siri before you were at Alation. So you have a really good feel for kind of what data can do and can't do and natural human or natural language processing and, and, and human voice interaction with these devices, a really interesting case study, and they can do a really good job within a small defined data set and instruction set, but they don't do necessarily so well once you kind of get outside how, how they're trained. And you've talked a lot about how metaphor shaped the way that we think and I know you and Dave talked about data oil and data lakes I don't want to necessarily go down that whole path but I do think it's important. And what came out of the study and the way people think about data. You know, there's a lot of conversation. How do you value data? Is data, you know it used to just be an expense that we had to buy servers to store the stuff we weren't sure what we ever did with it. So I wonder if there's any, you know, kind of top level metaphors level, kind of a thought or process or framing in the companies that you study that came out. maybe not necessarily in the top line data, but maybe in some of the notes that help define why some people, you know are being successful at making this transition and putting, you know kind of data out front of their decision processing versus data, either behind as a supporting thing or maybe data, I just don't have time with it or I don't trust it, or God knows where you got that, and this is not the data that I wanted. You know, was there any, you know, kind of tangental or anecdotal stuff that came out of this study that's more reflective of, of the softer parts of a data culture versus the harder parts in terms of titles and roles and, and, and job responsibilities. >> Yeah. It's a really interesting place to explore. I do think there's a, I don't want to make this overly simplistic group binary, but at the end of the day you know, like anything else within an organization, you can view data as a liability to say, okay, we have for example, you know, customer's names and phone numbers and passwords, and we just need to prevent an adverse event in which there's a leak or some sort of InfoSec problem that could cause, you know, bad press and fines and other negative consequences. And I think the issue there is if data's a liability, the most you know, the best case is that it's worth zero as opposed to some huge negative on your company's balance sheet. And, and I think, you know, intuitively, if you really want to prevent data misuse and data problems, one fail safe, but I think ultimately in its own way risky way to do that was just not collect any data, right. And not store it. So I think that the transition is to say, look data must be protected and taken care of that's step zero. But you know, it's really just the beginning and data is this asset that can be used to inform the huge company level strategic decisions that are made in annual planning at the board level, down to the millions of little decisions every day in the work of people in customer support and in sales and in product management and in, you know, various roles that just across industries. And I think once you have that, that shift, you know the upside is potentially, you know, unbounded. >> Right. And, and it just changes the way, the way you think. And suddenly instead of saying, Oh, data needs to be kind of hidden away, it's more like, Oh, people need to be trained on data use and empowered with data. And it's all about not if it's used or if it's misused but really how it's used and why it's used, what it's being used for to make a real impact. >> Right. Right. And it's funny when I just remember it being back in business school one of the great things that help teach is to think in terms of data, right. And you always have the infamous center consulting interview question, How many manhole covers are in Manhattan. Right. So, you know, to, to, to start to think about that problem from a data centric, point of view really gives you a leg up and, and even, you know where to start and how to attack those types of problems. And I thought it was interesting you know, talking about challenges for people to have a more data centric, point of view. It's interesting. The reports says, basically everybody said there's all kinds of challenges around data quality and compliance, and they had democratization. But the bottom companies, the bottom companies said that the biggest challenge was lack of buy in from company leadership. So I guess the good news bad news is that there's a real opportunity to make a significant change and get your company from the bottom third to a middle third or a top third, simply by taking a change in attitude about putting data in a much more central role in your decision making process. 'Cause all the other stuff's kind of operational, execution challenges that we all have, not enough people, blah, blah, blah. But in terms of attitude of leadership and prioritization, that's something that's very easy to change if you so choose. And really seems to be the key to unlock this real journey as opposed to the minutiae of a lot of the little details that that are a challenge for everybody. >> Absolutely. In your changing attitudes might be the easiest thing or the hardest thing depending on (indistinct). But I think you're absolutely right. The first step, which, which which could, maybe it should be easy, is admitting that you have a problem or maybe to put it more positively, realizing you have an opportunity. >> I love that. And then just again, looking at the top tier companies, the other thing that I thought was pretty interesting in this study is, I'm looking at it here, is getting champions in each of the operational segments. So rather than, I mean, a chief data officer is important and you know, somebody kind of at the high level to shepherd it in the executive suite, as we just discussed, but within each of the individual tasks and functions and roles, whether that's operations or customer service or product development or operational efficiency, you need some type of champion, some type of person, you know, banging the gavel, collecting the data, smoothing out the complexities, helping people get their thing together. And again, another way to really elevate your position on the score. >> Absolutely. And I think this idea of again, bridging between, you know, if data is centralized you have a chance to try to really get excellent practices within the data org. But even it becomes even more essential to have those ambassadors, people who are in the business and understand all the business context who can sort of make the data relevant, identify the key areas where data can really help, maybe demystify data and pick the right metaphors and the right examples to make it real for the people in their function. >> Right. Right. So Aaron has a lot of great stuff. People can go to the website at alation.com. I'm sure you'll have a link to this, a very prominently displayed, but, and they should and they should check it out and really think about it and think about how it applies to their own situation, their own department, company et cetera. I just wanted to give you the last word before we before we sign off, you know, kind of what was the most you know, kind of positive affirmation or not the most but one or two of the most outcome affirming outcomes of this exercise. And what were one or two of the things that were a little concerning or, you know, kind of surprises on the downside that, that came out of this research? >> Yeah. So I think one thing that was maybe surprising or concerning the biggest one is sort of where we started with that disconnect between, you know, what people would, say as an off the cuff overall assessment and the disconnect between that and what emerges when we go department by department and (indistinct) to be pillars of data culture from such a discovery to data literacy, to data governance. I think that disconnect, you know, should give one pause. I think certainly it should make one think, Hmm. Maybe I shouldn't look from 10,000 feet, but actually be a little more systematic. And considering the framework I use to assess data culture that is the most important thing to my organization. I think though, there's this quote that you move what you measure, just having this hopefully simple but not simplistic yardstick to measure data culture and the data culture index should help people be a little bit more realistic in their quantification and they track their progress, you know, quarter over quarter. So I think that's very promising. I think another thing is that, you know sometimes we ask, how long have you had this initiative? How much progress have you made? And it can sometimes seem like pushing a boulder uphill. Obviously the COVID pandemic and the economic impacts of that has been really tragic and really hard. You know, a tiny silver lining in that is the survey results showed that organizations have really observed a shift in how much they're using data because sometimes things are changing but it's like a frog in boiling water. You don't realize it. And so you just assume that the future is going to look like the recent past and you don't look at the data or you ignore the data or you miss parts of the data. And a lot of organizations said, you know COVID was this really troubling wake up call, but they could even after this crisis is over, producing enduring change which people were consulting data more and making decisions in a more data driven way. >> Yeah, certainly an accelerant that, that is for sure whether you wanted it, didn't want it, thought you had it at the time, didn't have time. You know COVID is definitely digital transformation accelerant and data is certainly the thing that powers that. Well again, it's the Alation State of Data Culture Report available, go check it at alation.com. Aaron always great to catch up and again, thank you for, for doing the work and supporting this research. And I think it's really important stuff. And it's going to be interesting to see how it changes over time. 'Cause that's really when these types of reports really start to add value. >> Thanks for having me, Jeff and I really look forward to discussing some of those trends as the research is completed. >> All right. Thanks a lot, Aaron, take care. Alright. He's Aaron and I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE, Palo Alto. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's theCUBE covering IBM Think, brought to you by IBM. >> Hey, welcome back everybody to theCUBE's continuing coverage of IBM Think 2020, I'm Jeff Frick. We're in our studios in Palo Alto, and this year, IBM Think is digital, so unfortunately we're not all together at Moscone or the Stands or one of your favorite convention sites. We're bringing to you this all from people's homes, and we're excited to have our very next guest. She is Maria Winans, the CMO of North America for IBM. Maria, great to see you. >> Yeah, great to see you, thank you for having me. >> Absolutely, so let's jump into it. IBM Think 2020, the digital experience. You know, we've been going to so many IBM events for so many years, and you used to have them, you would inherit them when you brought in new companies, so there was many, many IBM events, there's a long history of IBM events. It's a really important part of your mix, but then suddenly, in mid-March, you wake up one day, and are told, "Guess what? "You can't do IBM Think in a physical event anymore." So give us a little background on what IBM thinks of events, and how important they are what you use them for, and then a little of the behind the scenes, what happened in mid-March when suddenly this thing had to go digital? >> Yeah, thank you for having me here again. theCUBE has been an integral part of many of our events, from our conferences way back when. So let me start by saying that events are at the core of our marketing strategy for driving value, for driving probe. I mean, they really are about helping us build the brand, events help us foster and nurture relationships for you and existing clients, they help us really establish that leadership. They help shape business and society, and it's a great opportunity for us to showcase our best of features, our new announcements, our product, our functionality through amazing demonstrations and labs, and more importantly, it's a great opportunity for our sellers to progress conversations and to close business. And we do all kinds of variety of events, from breakfasts to what we called roadshows, on the road, impression events, and our premier flagship event, which is Think 2020, it's the one time of year where IBM comes together, and it's a great opportunity to really showcase one idea. And that's what the Think 2020 is about. >> That's awesome. So when you guys, again, woke up mid-March, we got to change this thing, good for IBM to actually hold the date. Most of the people that we work with, which are numerous, either flat out canceled the date, postponed it to some future date where maybe things are a little bit more back to normal, or went with the digital, but even with the digital, they postponed. So as you think about what digital means, what a digital event kind of affords you, I think there's way too much conversation about what digital isn't, vis-a-vis the physical, it just isn't, it's not the same as being together. And yet on the other hand, there's a whole lot of new things you can do on digital, that you just can't do with a physical conference, so how did you guys search those things out, define what a digital event is, and then really get in a position to deliver on that promise? >> Yeah, so let me talk about that in a couple of forms. First of all, we know that our attendees perceive value our event if this really heavily depended on the in-person interactions. So as you think about that, we've had to step back and say, how do we reimagine how we deliver this meaningful, one-to-one engagement that our clients know that in a value, to really now through a digital environment, and really reimagine that whole interaction, while still maintaining that very personalized, best in class experience that our clients value, and that's what really excites me about Think 2020. First of all, we are, so let me just highlight a couple of things of why I think, and I personally am excited about Think 2020. First of all, we have broadened our reach. We are hosting over 50,000 attendees. That's clients, partners, IBMers, influencers, and we reaping a much broader set of roles and influencers who may have not had the ability to travel before to attend an in-person event. Second, complimentary. This will be our first event that of this size, that is free. So we have many more new accounts joining us to learn about IBM for the first time. And this really opens up the doors to new business and opportunities for us. Very targeted agenda. So what we've done is we've taken an event that was going to span over five days to now two days, and we went from over 2,000 sessions that we were going to run to really now, think about how do we feature 200 sessions that are very focused, that are very targeted and very much on point in messaging of really dealing with what our clients are experiencing today with the recent world crisis. Another very exciting thing is lots in media platform. We are leveraging our very own media and AI platform that can host over a million users at once, and really increases the opportunity for engagement. So very interactive experience, you know our labs are sold out. We are completely sold out of our labs, some of our sessions are wait listed, and we're also running the opportunity to do one-on-one meetings for these two days. So while we're not in person, we have a tremendous opportunity to really offer a very interactive experience by introducing live chat throughout the sessions, and really engaging clients with each other and with their sellers during the event. And then for those that cannot attend, or cannot attend all the sessions throughout the day, we are going to have what basically we're calling content on demand. The content will live on, it will live on in different platforms, and we will be delivering the content to our clients, making it accessible at any time whenever it's convenient for them. So super excited about what the teams have done to really step back and reimagine this whole experience maintaining the interactivity, the personal engagement, and really the value add that our clients look for. >> Right, you touched on so many good themes there, and I just want to unpack them a little bit more. The first one that you talked about right off the bat was democratization. And as you said, there are many people that just can't get up and go to a conference, whether it's just bad timing for the week, they've got to run their own business, they just can't get away. So for people to be able to attend digitally, as you said, opens up an entire new pallet of participation for people that maybe couldn't come before. Another thing I think that's lost is this kind of separation of content creation, content delivery, and content consumption which is consistent with how we consume a lot of things today in our media, and very few people sit down, even for big television events, it's like the Super Bowl has really appointment television, we're creating this content now, right, it's going to be going up in the middle of IBM Think, and people might watch it on May 5th, or May 6th, they might watch it on May 10th, they might watch it May 10th 2025. So I think it's a really different way to think about it, and I'm sure as a marketer, at some point you're going to feel a little bit more freedom rather than try to force fit all the product groups and all the announcements and all the sessions, all this stuff that's got to line up for these, well it was three days in Vegas or San Francisco, now can kind of be broken up, and if it makes more sense for some information to get out earlier, it can go out earlier, it can go out later, but you know, a conference is defined by the bounds of that physical location for three days and how much can you guys get in there, where now suddenly, you don't have those binds anymore, and it really opens up a much broader opportunity for you to communicate your messages, keynote messages, product information, training in a very, very different and in some ways, I would bet liberating way. >> Yeah, I think this, what's happening here is an opportunity to really rethink in so many ways how we do marketing and what we talk about when we say digital engagement. You know, we did a recent CMO survey, which we call our C-Suite Survey, and we interviewed over 2000 CMOs, and one of the big conclusions that came out of it was that digital engagement is the future, and the way that really, what it really lands on is the fact that really digital engagement is the fair trade off of information and the exchange of value. So when you really think about that, for us, as marketers, digital engagement and value exchange comes in many forms. How we show up on our own platform, like we're doing here with Watson Media, how we show up during an event, whether it's Webinars or third parties. Even more importantly, the way that our sellers are going to engage virtually. Think about virtual sullying and Webex meetings which is really how they're having to communicate with clients today, and then how we engage socially, and that's really through all the social channels in the work that we do with the influencers. So we're going to learn a lot, we are learning a lot, we're going to test, we're going to iterate, but this whole new normal has given us an opportunity as marketers to really connect the digital and the physical in new ways. And in that, we have to really consider all the multiple facets and elements when we're thinking about digital marketing, and that to me is a tremendous opportunity because digital engagement, there are many elements, and it's going to be super important for all the marketers to really kind of step back and think about, what are those multiple elements that are going to make us, as we think about, how do we stay essential? How do we stay essential with our clients? And that is providing information when they need it, how they want to consume it, and then how do we stay relevant? I think also, when you think about digital engagement, is you got to show flexibility. The ability to pivot strategically and quickly, which is really what we've done with Think. We were ready to move forward on a physical event, amazing event the teams have been working on, and with everything going on, we wanted to maintain May 5th and 6th, we had made a commitment to our clients, and we had to pivot very quickly and be flexible of how do we reimagine Think from physical to now digital. In a digital world, user first experience is a must. It has to be compelling. It has to be an incredible user experience, and the entire experience has to be digitally connected. You know, content, as you said before, content needs to be delivered in unique ways, and where the clients are, not where you want the clients to come, so how does the content find the clients? The relationships. How do we continue to incorporate the human connection? The human connection and build those relationships with the clients, and interacting with them in meaningful ways. And I think one of the things that we've really, over the last couple of years in IBM is grounded in leverage really our data and analytics to better understand behaviors and determine what is that best digital investment, that best touch point at that best time. Very targeted. >> Frick: If it. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. >> No go ahead. >> I was going to say, it's just, is it a hook or crook or circumstance, but just kind of an ironic, right, that when you guys were forced to make this pivot, and I think it's a nice statement to IBM that you were able to successfully make this pivot, again, one of the interesting things about COVID is nobody saw it coming, nobody really had time to prep, nobody put in plans, there was no slow transition, it was this light switch moment. But at the same moment in time, you just got a brand new CEO who is extremely social, and Arvind announced his kind of welcome to the world and his leadership changes and some promotions and stuff via a LinkedIn post, which I found really fascinating that he's leveraging the social medium in a way that wasn't necessarily done before at IBM in the leadership suite, and then the fact that you guys are making this quick switch, you took the challenge to keep that date the same, but reinvent Think, again, is a testament to kind of a shift in IBM's culture and ability to move quickly in the face of this new challenge which nobody really saw coming to the degree and speed in which we've had to react, so it's a very, it's a very nice statement on your guys ability to execute. >> Yeah, and it's exciting, I mean I think, when I think about marketing and I've been in marketing most of my career at IBM, it's an opportunity for us to really kind of lean in and put our creative juices to work, really team together and embrace, embrace the opportunity to kind of think differently, and I think when we look at how marketing will progress, and the leadership that we can provide in this digital era, we're going to see a lot more opportunity to get much more personalized, we're going to see ChatBot being used very strategically, as we're seeing them today. We're going to look at opportunities to infuse AI in the experience to augment it, to personalize it, dynamic content delivery. We're experimenting with many platforms to really do that more effectively and recommendation engines and really continue to automate the marketing process and marketing experience all the way through to make it as compelling and as personalized as we can. So a huge opportunity for every marketer in the world, and a huge opportunity that we've embraced in IBM. >> It's just, wow, just the forcing function, just automation, we've been talking about that for a long time, taking away boring tasks so people can focus on higher level activities. But it all kinds of come back to something I want to kind of close on, and that's leadership. And Michelle Peluso had a post a couple of days ago talking about leadership. You responded to it, and we've been reaching out to a lot of the leaders in our community to get their take on, from a leadership perspective, 'cause I think the cream really rises to the top in challenging times, and this is, again, cast upon us, no preparation, ready, set, go. And it is really a call to leadership, it's leading your own people, it's really putting a voice of confidence out to your customer base, as well as just your broader community, so that's partners and all of the constituents that play. So I wonder, we've been in it for a number of weeks now, as you kind of think back on adjusting your own leadership style, as down as well as the leadership within the IBM senior team, great example, being able to pull this Think together and completely flip it on its head, if you will. Wonder if you can share what are you trying to do different, what are some best practices, who are some of the folks you're looking to to give you kind of some tips and tricks to lead in basically from your home office? >> I think challenging times like this, and I've always said it, it is with the opportunity for every leader to step up and rise to the top. Leaders are made during challenging times, leaders become during these, turning challenges into opportunities. So for me, you know as I think about my own leadership style, number one, is you put the people first. Especially during these times, act with compassion and empathy. Focus on the team's help, focus on wellness, focus on making sure that you keep everybody motivated. Lead with energy. And this is back to Michelle's article in LinkedIn, she talked about team matters an awful lot now, and connecting people and making sure that everybody's well being, it's their mind, their wellness, their activity, and they're staying connected. I think the second is productivity, is we have to keep the business going, we have to make sure that the work from home environment is safe and productive and everybody's work environment differently. Everybody has their own challenges and opportunities, and we have to acknowledge that. So productivity is important, but everybody is in their own, and you've got to be aware as a leader of those circumstances. You can't expect everything to be the same for everyone, and you've got to be ready for interruptions. You got to be ready for those kids in the background and dogs barking and certain routines that have to be adjusted to. And I think the third is around staying connected. We have various tools, and we're very fortunate in IBM, and especially in marketing, that we've really embraced the new as far as the way that we communicate using Slack, looking at how do we leverage up our tools to inform our actions in marketing, and staying connected is more important than ever. And we're doing, we're touching teammates more often, I know that I am doing one-on-one calls with my team more often than I would have done otherwise. And then being agile. Whether it's the tools, the process, the culture, for us, embracing agile has been at the core of our marketing transformation, and it's more important than ever that we stay agile, that we continue to work in feedback, in learning, in testing, and in the ways that we know best. And it's an amazing opportunity to try new things. There is no bad idea, be open to innovation, try fast, learn, ready to pivot, you know, and really what's happening in the world has given us an opportunity to really step out of our normal and some amazing ideas are coming forward and at a very fast pace, and we have to be agile and we have to be authentic to our environment. And I'll close with one thing. One of the things that we did as IBMers is we all specifically as leaders, from Arvind to Michelle to every leader at IBM, we've made a pledge. A work from home pledge, that we will support each other, and we are each given examples of the things that we are taking forward to support each other as we're living through this new normal and digital engagement. So, an incredible opportunity for every IBMer and really a prideful moment to stay strong as an IBMer, to stay strong as an individual and a leader. >> Well very good, well it shows that you've been able to accomplish this feat in pull off this really big event in the same time window that you had allocated, and completely flipped it on its mind, so it's a great testament to you, as well as the leadership team and everybody executing up and down the line. So Maria, great to catch up, thanks for your time, and really a pleasure. >> Thank you, thank you. >> All right, she's Maria, I'm Jeff, it's theCUBE's continuing coverage of IBM Think 2020, the digital experience. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (inspirational digital music)

>>Yeah, yeah, yeah! >>Everybody, welcome back to the special digital presentation where we are tracking the transformation of Oracle consulting. And really, it's rebirth. Aaron Millstone is back. He's the senior vice president of consulting, joined by Jeff Davis. Who's ah, principal at Deloitte. He's the chief commercial officer for Oracle at Deloitte. Gentlemen, good to see you. Welcome. >>Thank you very much. >>Thanks for having me back. >>You're welcome, guys. Jeff, let me start with you. I've got the obvious question is why would Deloitte World Class? Yes, I well known why you partnering with Oracle Consultant? >>We're really It was a perfect match. The fact that we were looking to grow our oracle practice and really new and innovative ways around Oracle's cloud technology. Uh, in discussions with the oil, coal and specifically with Aaron Millstone, we discovered that we really had complementary capabilities and very little overlapping capabilities. So it was natural for us to find a way to work together. And specifically we found that there were strategic assets we had and there were tactical assets that Oracle had the mixture of two made a really unique and compelling value proposition for the customer base >>and Aaron. I mean, we've talked about the shift from from staff augmentation to much more strategic partnering with your customers. But you're not trying to compete with the big size of there's, there's it sounds like there's not a lot of overlap there. Where do you pick up and leave off for Deloitte? You describe that? >>Sure. I mean, we're You're right, right? We're not. We're not ever going to try to compete with the Deloitte. It's not our that's not in our DNA. It's not our intention. We exist to drive Oracle's to drive success for our customers on Oracle's cloud. That's that's our mantra. That's what we focus in on. So for us, right, we're deep technologists. We're We understand our cloud. We understand how cloud works within our various product suites that we migrate to the cloud. We understand how to manage it. We understand how to build paths extensions to it, but we don't have big program management. We don't understand non oracle components that well, you know, we've got some expertise here and there. But if we need to expand, you know, on Oracle solution to coexist with a Microsoft azure solution, we can't do that without going to a partner and as we bigger and the transformation that they're gonna have to change management and big, big transformation journey capabilities. Like again, That's not That's not expertise. >>Yeah, so Jeff will come back to you. So we see a lot of these deals. Sometimes we call them Barney deals. I love you. You love me. There's a press release, and that's it. But so one of the things we look for okay is their teeth behind this. You guys have come out with what you call elevate. What is elevate? How did it get started? And I have some follow up questions. >>Yeah, well, elevate really got started when Aaron and I started to look at the assets that each of the firms possessed on the Deloitte side, as Aaron suggested, We have deep capabilities and a broad range of technologies, some of them competing technologies with Oracle at the same time. Uh, we didn't have a great deal of depth in Oracle's technical products, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure and Oracle Autonomous. Our bench was not as big as Aaron's, and Aaron also had access to your local development at a level that we didn't have access to. So we really found ourselves in a situation where we could put those two capabilities together and we could offer something to our clients and a broad range of customers. Oracle customers in the field. They had access to all of the Lloyds capabilities, which includes great project management, great change management, real skill around the strategic aspects of cloud migration. And Aaron had tools on had resource is trained and developed around the late historical technology. They'd always be a step ahead of any s I So together we felt this was really a differentiation for marketplace, right, Erin? >>Yeah, absolutely right. And if I don't think I would add to it is that if you if you look at Deloitte approaches client conversation from, ah, business value perspective, you know, the work consulting teams tends to focus conversation. It tends to approach conversations with a focus on How do you want to do the technology? Um, both are helpful. But, you know, quite frankly, as we get into the bigger information in place, we need to lead with the Lloyd model of how do we How do we drive your business value and then begin from a technologist perspective, that's when we show up. So it really has been a very logical, very complimentary match. >>So you and I have talked about, you know, data centers and building data centers and investing. It's not just it's just not a good use of capital today. There's so many other things that organizations can do. You guys have identified data center. Consolidation is, is I'll call it Ah, you know, an initiative that you're seeing customers. I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit. Is that kind of a starting point for conversations? >>Yeah, well, it's definitely starting point, right? So we call it a referred to his infrastructure led transformation, Um, and appetite. The appetite for that is certainly high. We were seeing an increased focus on um, you know what customers need to do to take not just a workload here and there. But how do they get out of the data center business full? So it's a foregone conclusion, right? Like you just said, it's not. It's not really a question of should we invest in another data center? Where should we invest in up to in their data centers? The question has changed to Let's move the cloud. How do we get there and let's move in a big way? And that's why we're seeing that dialogue across all of our customers. And we find even for Oracle, it's been a learning for us, right? We started with on Oracle workload conversation, which is, Do you want to move this work? Work loads of oracle? But you want to move that Oracle workload works. And really, what we're finding is it's a wholesale transformation of everything in the data center, too. One or more clouds, right again, often often it's a multi cloud strategy, and that's okay. And we, you know, we were having more bigger conversations. The thing that has been really interesting is these conversations have evolved, and especially as we work with our partners at Deloitte, has been that, you know, we think that the combination of our our cloud technology, the consulting services that Oracle Consulting and Deloitte can bring to bear and then Oracle's ability to finance the whole deal makes the very compelling conversations for customers because you can walk in to a CEO to a CFO and say, Look on day one, you can actually have a lower spend that what you have today in your data center and get a cop transformation underway at the same time. >>So I want to come back to that business case and member Jeff, before we do, I want to ask you. So we heard Erin, you know, talking about the catalyst. You know, that sort of infrastructure transformation. But you're in the outcomes business, right in both. The bush has been deployed especially so So what is that North Star that you're seeing with customers? You know, it's not about the tech. They're not starting there. Um, that will often tell you that's kind of the easy part. But then we see tech coming and going, and it's the It's the business process. That's the people issues lining everybody. So what are you seeing is so the outcomes. What's that conversation like with your customers? >>Yeah, well, really, this conversation starts with business leadership. Um, if you think about it, there's a strong value proposition in infrastructure renewal. It's not at the top of mind, but once you start to understand the value that's created, it does raise two ah, high priority. Now, our experiences that virtually every board is looking for the C suite toe have a cloud strategy of some kind. People recognize the value of cloud in, uh in many of our clients and many of Oracle's customers, so the boards are pressing the C suite for a cloud strategy. Among those things are the value that cloud brings, including virtually unlimited scalability. Is is being tested real time now with a lot of current events. So when you see the scalability when you know you need a cloud strategy of some kind, your business advisors impressing you, the value proposition starts well, how do we get there? And what does it take to be successful? Our perspective is that it's it's fair to believe that the cloud will reduce infrastructure. Spend significantly. It's a great opportunity for consolidation. It also adds a layer of security, resiliency and scalability that you simply couldn't do on your own. So it addresses a lot of business needs Aziz well as a number of technical needs that need to be addressed. >>So let's talk a little bit more about that business cases that generally what you're seeing, where it starts is let's take some costs right out, and then Aaron, you and I talked about maybe investing that in the future of it. But is that really the starting point for the vast majority of customers? Let's let's let's cut some costs right away and get a payback immediately. >>So I'd like to share our perspective, which is, you know, nobody spends money for the sake of spending money on technology. It's got to have meaningful business value. So the conversation starts with really renewal and a path to the cloud. But there's a natural opportunity for savings in consolidation that we take advantage. We're not simply shifting from your hardware to the cloud we're actually modernizing, which will result in significant savings. But it also gives the business something that they don't have today at a level of security and scalability and ability to run a modern technology much faster, much better. Ah, and much more scalable. >>So a lot of people might again I go back to these deals. I think of this as a sales play. One of the things we look for is there. Is there any other integration? Are you doing co engineering in this case, maybe not, co engineering But are there tools that you're developing that you're taking to market, that you're actually leveraging? Eric, can you talk about that a little bit? Convinces. That's not just the sales play. >>Yeah, sure. And Jeff alluded to some of this earlier, too, right? So we definitely each had our respective tool. Angry Deloitte's investments in tools, what was built out of data that we have seen used quite a few times now we've been investing in something we call the Oracle soar. You know, our tools are, as you'd imagine, heavily Oracle focus. It's about moving Oracle technology to Oracle Cloud out of data and some of the tools that Deloitte's invested in our focus more comprehensively on holistically, looking at everything in a data center and everything that's across data centers and start to develop a set of facts around this stuff. But in both cases, we actually looked at these things and we said, You know what? If you combine these together, we get a very comprehensive view of what exactly it is, but we're looking at with a customer so we can tell everything from the types of traffic we see in the network to the specific versions of stuff you start to identify whether there's risk associated with having things, not aster on a supporter and get a very conference of you that's based on facts. And so, you know, we took those tools. We combined them together so that we can go into a customer and give a complete end and view from both on Oracle and Delight Perspective. And quite frankly, it doesn't matter whether the Lloyd leads or whether Oracle leads. We've developed these tools together. We're going to market together. And we've even got you know, the templates you'd expect consultancies tohave, right? So when you look at business cases, we've got joint business case templates that we've created together and that we're using actively with customers and therefore then we're refining them, improving them each time we do it. But, you know, we're at a point now where our tools are combined, templates are combined, and we even at this, you know, we're even Jeff in our poll earlier yesterday actually even got a joint Ah, war room that's constantly engaging with different account teams and making sure that we structurally approach things in a consistent way so that we're driving business value and using the tools appropriately. >>You know, I think, um, migration risk is probably one of the most significant factors in a business case. I mean, many don't understand it, but those in I t. And certainly hopefully in the executive office do you understand it? It sounds like that's a part of your tooling, anyway is designed to mitigate that's significant migration risk. When you talk about that a little bit, >>yeah, so we, you know, we approach migration from, you know, we start with the conversation. I'm almost always some type of log of what? The list of applications, what versions of things running they've been maintained by some might department somewhere, right? Or the collective? It's in varying degrees of accuracy is what we find. We don't rely on that. We go in and our our tools, our combined tooling across oracle, Deloitte interrogate the systems. We come back with actual information from the actual systems themselves. And then we started the plan. And so the funny thing is, with the migration, you know, probably 80% of the effort. 90% of the effort is in the planning stages and making sure that we understand exactly what we're moving exactly. When again, we're not. We're not dealing with the edge applications. Typically, we're dealing with the mission critical applications that are supporting the heart of a supply chain or a finance operation. And you can't. You just can't afford the down time that maybe you could afford on something that might be a consumer facing or a little less mission. Critical. So, yeah, we start finding very early and interrogate aggressively with actual data. >>Jeff, can you give us a sense as to how far you're into this elevate journey? May be thinking about a couple of customers either specifically or generically gonna where you're at with them. How far along? Maybe even some examples that you feel are representative. >>Sure. Um, you know, the the relationship has been probably about six Ah, close to seven months of maturity. In that time, we've had an opportunity to work on several key clients at scale. Uh, we've worked together in collaboration with one of the nation's largest retailers in the grocery business. We've worked collaboratively in aerospace and defense and also in the hospitality industry. In these cases, what we're finding and one is each one is in the various stage of maturity. One is done, one is in midstream on one is at the early stages and current economic conditions or driving a huge pipeline. Right now, I think our challenge right now is making sure that we identify those clients that can best take a value, take advantage of our services and our joint offering to deal with that pipeline. Right now, what we're finding is that the savings are at least as we projected. In some cases, we're finding even more. What people say they have and what people say they do isn't necessarily what you find when you get in there. But almost every case we're finding that there's unused equipment, unused capacity that they currently have redundancy, low utilization of their current assets. We can go a long way and streamlining that. Plus, I can't emphasize enough that ah, these days security is a major concern and we're adding a layer of security that they could never achieve themselves with soft. >>How do you guys on how the customers wanna approach the transaction? Is it a Bixby is a T and M. Is it a situation where you participate in some of the some of the savings of the game. How does the pricing work? >>So we have Go >>ahead. Um, I'll start off by saying each deal is really custom built around what a customer really needs, what they're trying to get out of it right now. As an example, Op X is very important. So we're engineering deals in a way that helps customers deal with their financial challenges, especially around op Ex. There are other structures that we can put in place. We have the backing of Oracle Finance, so we can be very innovative on deals they could be. When value was attained. They could be milestone based. There's just, uh, I think, a wide variety I don't want to say unlimited, but a wide variety of different options that we can offer our clients in order to be able to deal with whatever financial challenge or opportunity that may be looking at >>perfect, perfect. And you want >>to add to that >>and everything looking at other than you know, the there are. There are always things that are discovered during a personal project, and so, you know, we we also we do factor and things that allow some flexibility. Right? So even if we have a fixed price deal will include a bucket of ours to deal with, you know, unanticipated changes or even innovation. It doesn't have to be, You know, contingency could be Hey, we want to go out and spend and invest some money on artificial intelligence machine learning analytics over in this space since we've already moved these applications. All right, so we're approaching it again from a very flexible standpoint, and we're just point right. We can we can custom craft. Ah, deal to match what? The clients. Best business outcome. Okay. >>Yeah, that makes sense. That client might see some adjacent opportunity that they want to pursue, and they want that to be covered in the agreement I'm gonna end. Um, if you start with you, Aaron and then Jeff go to you. How? What do you guys see? A success? What does success look like? You know, when you were, you know, just less than a year in when you're 234 let's say five years and you look back, What does success look like? >>So, to me, successful success is gonna look like we've gotten a number of these big transformation deals in play. It's in motion, naturally between our organizations, not necessarily driven entirely by Jeff and I going out and driving the organization behave the right way. It's more in our DNA. But more importantly, I think we've gone into We've gone beyond the conversation of Let's Move workloads. We've gone into conversations off. Let's really talk about how to reimagine your business on top of Oracle's cloud and have an ongoing dialogue that looks at that transformation. Once we hit that 0.345 years from now, right, that will be a wild success, Jeff. >>But really, it's been around for 135 years. This is our birthday, uh, this year and in that time, what we've learned is there's no substitute for impact and value added to our clients. In our perspective, what this would success looks like his client success find success means improved scalability of their operations, uh, securing their technology and their data at a substantially lower cost, so that they can focus on what their core businesses and focus less on technology. That success to deploy >>right guys, thanks so much. Great session We're not only witnessing the rebirth of Oracle Consulting, but there's clearly a transformation going on. And it's cultural. Gentlemen, congratulations on your partnership. And thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >>Thank you so much >>for having us. >>You're welcome. Alright, Keep right there, everybody. We're back with our next guest covering Oracle Consulting North America. This is Dave Vellante with the Cube. Thanks for watching. >>Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, >>yeah.

>>live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Q covering I f s World Conference 2019. Brought to you by I >>f. S, I say, What a minute. I didn't cash it. Everybody welcome to I f s World 2019. You watching the Cube? The leader in live tech coverage on day Volante with my co host, Paul Galen. Marty Martin is here. She is the president of the service management division of I F s and C e o of work wave. Marty, good to see you. >>Yeah, it's great to be here. I'm so excited. >>A lot of action going on. You guys. Service management, Field Service management particular. You guys had an acquisition today. We're gonna talk about Let's start with your role you came in and 2017 with the >>pretty acting. Actually, >>2018 finalized the acquisition. I think they announce it in 2017. So tell us about how you came in and where you're at today with >>Certainly. So work wave the company. I lied. Join the effects family in 2017. Darren Ruess, who joined I f s in April 2018 recruited me into form a global business unit around service in August of 2018 and the reason why we did this is service isn't only a part of our economies all over the world, but it's a super great growth area that almost every business can go after in in progress both revenue and margins. So we had a lot of great software products, and we really wanted to improve our go to market around this. >>So why, why all of a sudden today, this talk about service management? Why's it becoming so hard? I mean, everybody's always been focused on customer service, but why this service management generally and field service management while the buzz. >>So first off, you've had the evolution of a number of line of business applications and service certainly has been a part of maintenance organizations or break fix where you're going out in repairing thing. What we're realizing now when you talk about service ization, how o E EMS air building what's called aftermarket revenue? There is literally $100 billion of revenue that you can get from that you look, we had Melissa did a nano from Souza. If you think about open source software, they make money from sirve ties, ing, open source software and the products. You look at apple how they're doing APs. So people are starting to realize that service is an engine for brand loyalty, customer experience, not just a cost center. How it used to be, what the >>customers do. Ah, companies do wrong with service one of the areas where they tend to have the greatest inefficiencies where you can help him. >>So first off, I'd say that often in the C suite, unless they're pure place service companies. They don't understand how transformative service is and how important it is to their brand. Many times now, if you have digital enablement of a new customer, the first time they see a face of your brand might be your service technician. So getting the awareness of the C suite is Step one, because we want to start talking about outcomes that grow revenue and profits and getting them to invest in service. So you know, many times will say, Oh, I want to do a C. R M project. I want to do an E r P project. That's certainly things were good at it. Here I a fest, but we can coach them through how you take the market opportunity for your company and service enabled by our technology and transform. Tomorrow I'll be with Accenture, one of our many great partners, and we're talking about adapting the business, the service transformation, sometimes digitally, sometimes with workflow transformation. But that opportunity and service is huge and almost never. There's no company I know of that's taking 100% of their service market share. That's the difference, especially in slower growth. Asset manufacturing are more mature verticals. >>So I was here last night walking the floor, and I went to the extent you Booth, you know, anytime you see, except you're in a show like this. Okay, Censure. You think Large company Global. I was actually quite impressed a little bit surprised to see you know, their presence here because they they go where the money is, right? And so my specific question is, think, except you think big companies. But you guys obviously focused on what range of companies smaller midsize company. So what's the landscape? Looked like? What's the difference is between sort of smaller and larger companies, >>so that's a great question. I'll take it in part So if you think about a neck censure definitely they looked a large. I also have had meetings with the Lloyd McKinsey Cap gem and I dxc etcetera Also tcs Tech Mahindra which a little bit or more telco focused. So if you think about at the very large and you have telco utilities, large manufacturing O e ems that our customers and definitely the customers I'm pursuing Maur with this focus But we also with work with go down to the S and B We had panels also of, for example, female owners of franchises and also males as well that are creating new service businesses and they're starting maybe with one truck in out providing service. So the fact that we can handle not only the breath and depth of complex service needs, but through work wave we also can encourage the small service businesses to reach their full potential is fantastic. And you know that makes me excited every day. And part of why I focused on service specifically is you are delighting customers. You are the face of a brand and you're making a difference. It's not something that s 02 is esoteric. This is about really value that we're delivering, >>always interested in the dynamics of serving the SNB market >>because one of >>these small companies don't really have that. Maybe family owned there found her own. They don't really put a lot of value on technology. How >>do you >>get in the door? How do you convince them that automating the service function is actually worth the investment? >>Well, first off, I'd say that even the big companies are struggling to go paperless. Okay, so, you know, I think some of the challenges we see survive, if you will, big to small, especially when you look globally in different countries. What have you. But the approach we take in the S and B is that we want to be a software as a service provider, and we were to really handle everything they need in their business. So everything from how they grow leads how they have c r m type functionality. How, then they're delivering service, how they're cross selling service, how they're billing service. So at the at the S M B level, we're putting that kind of all in one technology and there's really not that much integration or I T Service is around that right. We want it to be easy and fast, etcetera, as you go more into the mid market and then definitely into the enterprise. Then you start getting more complexity. You get more I t service's integrations, more configurable ity, sometimes even some customized software. So there is a definitely a difference in the complexity. But the fundamentals of what a service business needs really isn't that much different to your >>customers that you mentioned customize and you guys were SAS space. That's one of the text that we'd like to sort of explore a little bit. A lot >>of >>times SAS companies want to avoid, you know, custom mods. But at the same time, you guys are trying to offer a choice. So help us square that circle. How do you What's the conversation like with customers in terms of how you advise them, You guys obviously do a lot of deep functionality, you know? How do you sort of advise them whether or not to go heavily custom or try to go out of the box? >>Certainly. So in the true, I'd say the small business of a medium you start getting some crossover, but in the small business, Absolutely avoid customization because you won't be able to stay evergreen. It's going to be too hard to maintain. You don't have the subject matter experts, et cetera, so that's really a truce. Ask that from a community. A product engagement. We need to be driving the partnership with the customers that they can use a software out of the box in ways that matter to them. As you start getting into the mid market and especially the enterprise, then it becomes more of a choice, right? How much money do you have to spend? How robust is your organization and set trek? And in general, I advise customers if they care about evergreen software, et cetera. If they care about ease of upgrades, don't customize that Being said, we recognize sometimes in the field with your brand experience Custom mobile. You may need to customize a little bit, so it's Ah, say, a chicken and an egg. You have to weigh the benefits of the costs, and that's what we work through with our >>customers. Specifically morning. What's the upgrade cycle like? There's a customer having the choice Thio upgrade at a particular time, Or do they have a window? >>So it varies primarily, there's a few exceptions, but in general, with the work way, Family of products is true SAS. So it's almost like you're Apple Phone. We pushed the upgrade and you have to take it. Okay, And that's the true SAS model at I. F. S. And this is something Darren talked about in his keynote. We pride ourselves on offering choice. So even though we do have regular release cycles, we encourage customers to upgrade regularly. They have the choice on when they take upgrades and also how they deploy. We have some markets with things like data, privacy and what have you that they may, for that reason or for other reasons, go on premise even still today. So we give them the choice on how they upgrade as well as where they host. >>I'm fascinated by your product line. You have products for pest control. H V. A. C. Plumbing cleaning service is long and landscape. How different are these industries really in terms of their their automation needs? >>Well, I'll tell you one of the personal factors that Darren wanted to make sure I was comfortable with was multitasking. And that definitely is the case, because an I f s, we serve five key industries. So if you think about manufacturing utilities, telco service providers and Andy Okay, that's more at the enterprise level. If you think then when you go toe work wave. Those verticals that you mentioned are all the ones we service at work wave, and they are different. So you know what? Work wave. It's primarily service industries where you're going into ah, home and a little bit The commercial aspect and I effects were also doing more some heavy industries, some very large asset base, things like that. So I like to think about it as a product I service consumer based service. And then you can also differentiate across verticals with what are called high value assets versus, you know, Mork consumer size assets. >>So what >>are >>the one of the key technology enablers that are driving service management today? I mean, obviously, cloud, we talked about sas a lot of push on you X and customer experience, but what other key ones? >>So all the three that you mentioned mobile is huge. You know, Pete and even today, like I run. I work mainly from my phone, and that's really what people want. They want efficient work flows that are configurable on mobile, tied to the customer, the asset, the business. And that's an area that we're continuing to make investment. We also try to prioritize how we bring in the new technology trends into service. Because every technology trend that you see has applicable ity and service supply chain and how you run spare parts specially globally, you can see applications for Blockchain augmented emerged Reality how you can connect the field tech with an expert resource or remote resource to the consumer. That is obvious, right? So you talked about the enabling technologies like Cloud, how we're thinking about data platforms and Data's the currency. Of all of that, we need to d'oh. His service is really about a an execution engine, right? Because to deliver a customer experience that makes people come back to your brand. To purchase Maur, you need great service, so any time somebody talks about customer experience, but they don't talk about service. I want to say you're really naive because you can just get the customer. You have to delight the customer. >>Uh, the, uh, there's a lot of interesting technology going on now in the area. Fleet Management making fleets more efficient How does that figure into the service is? You offer. >>So Fleet management is an important part, and it's one that you have a very tangible return on investment when you deploy route management route optimization, fleet management. So you have the aspects that are very tangible, relate to how do you get the person or the truck where it needs to be when it needs to be okay, and that's pretty well understood. Then how do you get the most efficient schedule that minimizes miles driven gas, used et cetera? And then, of course, you also are thinking about health and safety. There's some cool things now that you can partner that if you have these fleet technologies installed in a way that is integrated in your service business, you can actually get lower insurance premiums, right? So it's not just the conventional use. Cases were starting to think in this kind of gig economy, how you can also be thinking about bringing in Maura what's called a contingent workforce. So if you have surge capacity in a certain period or you want to just do more third party service, probably your appliances. You know they're not the employees, if you will, of a g e or a world polar and LG right there Probably a contingent workforce. And that's a model that's also evolving. But to do Fleet Management across say, contractors, not just employees is an area that were thinking more and more led by some of the uber ization, if you will, of the of the marketplace >>right up against the clock, Marty. But to last questions You made an acquisition today, Vashti Uh, yeah, uh, I thought of it as a tuck in acquisitions, although Darren essentially sort of said, it's gonna make you the leader now in service management. Um And then I want to understand how you guys differentiate from some of the big whales. >>So, you know, overall, we're on track to be about 700 revenue this year in service management. We're working to get to 200 million, right? So this year will probably be around maybe 1/5 50 ish per se. Don't quote me on that check with our coms team, but the point being is that we have the ability to use these tuck in acquisitions and service to accelerate our lead, not just from a revenue perspective, which is what we were just talking about. But from a product perspective, you might have followed Salesforce acquiring Click. That means we are the only independent. Aye, aye. Optimization engine that is field tested. Battle ready. So that's great. This s t a is how we consolidate our dominance and complex service. So what darren was speaking to is not on Lee the service management segment of our revenue and how we continue to accelerate over the oracles in the S a. P s and the service maxes et cetera of the world. But how we take what we're already dominant in and really put the hammer down. Honesty is part of that. >>Your differentiation then if I infers, is focus. Um, you're you're deep customer customs agent deep >>domain expertise. Yeah, So really, when you think about a i optimization, which drives a ton of business value and the ability to handle the complex service cases that then drive business outcomes and outcomes based service models, we are number one and s dea tucks into that, even though it is very strategic on how we position ourselves with leadership and service. >>All right, Challenger becomes number one, Marty. Thanks very much. All right, Keep it right, everybody. Dave A lot with Paul Galen. You're watching the Cube from Boston Mass. I f s world 2019 right back.

>> Presenter: Live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's the Cube. Covering vmworld 2019. Brought to you by vmware and its ecosystem partners. >> So good to have you here with us on the first day of three days of live coverage here in San Francisco as The Cube continues its 10th year of coverage at vmworld 2019. Along with John Troyer, I'm John Walls, glad to have you with us. We're joined now by Bina Hallman who is the vice president of storage at IBM. Bina good to have you with us with this afternoon. >> Thanks for having me. >> You bet. You know, your everyday assignment is keeping so many people up at night and that's how do we defend ourselves, cyber. How do we develop these resilient networks, resilient services. Let's take a step back for a second and try to paint the scope of the problem in terms of what you're seeing at IBM in terms of cyber intrusions, the nature of those attacks and the areas where those are happening. >> I'll tell you from a client industry perspective, right touch on that a little bit. But cyber resiliency, cyber security it's a huge topic. This is something that every business is thinking about, is talking about. It's not just a discussion in the different departments, it's at the C Suite level, the board level. Because if you think about it, cyber crimes as frequent as they are and as impactful as they are, they can really affect the overall company's revenue generation. The cost of recovering from them can be very expensive. >> We're talking about more than just breeches here. Every week we hear ransomware is very interesting, it's very prevalent, it's here. I honestly hear a lot of government small town governments, or state governments, municipal governments maybe because they have reporting requirements. I don't know what goes on underneath in the private sector, but does it seem like that is one things? >> That's right that's right. We hear it in the news a lot. We hear about ransomware quite a bit as data breeches, as other types of things. When you look at some of the analyst statistics and what they say about the frequency of these types of events, and the likelihood of a business getting affected, the likelihood of a business getting affected by a cyber event is 1 in 3. It used to be 1 in 4 a couple years ago, now 1 in 3 over the next two years. Ransomware itself is increasing frequency. I think it was like every 14 seconds there is a ransomware attack somewhere in the world. The cost of this is tremendous. It's in the trillions of dollars. Both from recovering from that attack, the loss in business and revenue generation and actually the impact to the company's reputation. Again, not just ransomware, it's happening in many industries. You talked about government, it's in manufacturing, it's in financial, it's in health, it's in transportation. When you step back and say, how is it so broad, when you think about every organization to some extent is going through some level of transformation. There's digital transformation. They're leveraging capabilities like hybrid multi cloud, having resources on prim, workloads on prim some services in the cloud. They've got team members that are using mobile devices. Some companies depending on their business might have IOT. So when you look at all of those entry points, these are new ways that the bad guys can get into an organization. That creates the scale and complexity, just gets very large. It used to be that you have a backup. The traditional way for business resiliency used to be you do a backup, you have the data on an external system, you restore it if something happened. And then there was the business continuity. You would have a secondary infrastructure that in the case of an accident or some kind of a natural disaster, which didn't happen very often, you would have somewhere, a secondary infrastructure. All of those were designed with the likelihood being very low of happening. Then the recovery times and the disruption to business was somewhat tolerable. These days, with all of the dynamics we're talking about, and the potential areas of entry you need more of an end to end solution. That's a cyber resiliency strategy that is really comprehensive and that's what a lot of the businesses are thinking about today. How do I make sure I have a complete solution and a strategy that allows me to survive through and come up very quickly after an attack happens. I think most people recognize that they're going to get impacted at some point. It's not if, but it's when and when it does how do I quickly recover. >> You said it with the statistic, that 1 in 3 every two years. So my math tells me in six years time, I'm going to get hit by that standard. But it tells me that it's not if, it is when. So in terms of the strategies that companies are adopting, what do you recommend? What do you suggest now? You paint a realistically grim picture that there's so many different avenues, different opportunities and it's hard to put your fingers in all those holes. >> There's a lot happening in this space and I think that, you know, there are different standards, a lot of regulations but one that has been accepted and being leveraged in the US is around a framework and some guidance the NIST organization, National Institute of Standards in Technology. It's a framework that they put in place, a guidance on how do you plan for, how do you detect and then recover from these types of situations. I'll talk about it a little bit, but it's a very good approach. It starts with an organization needs to start by identifying what are some of the critical business services that their business is dependent on. What are they, what are the systems, what are the workloads, what are the applications. They identify and then what's the tolerance level. How quickly do you need to come up. What's the RPO, RTF. Based on that, develop and prioritize a plan. That plan has to be holistic. It involves from the CIO to the CSA, security office to the operations to the business continuity, to the data owners, the line of business. And then in this environment, you've got partners, you've got services you're leveraging. All of that has to be encompassing for those key services that you identify and prioritize as a client that you need up and running. And up and running very quickly. One of the examples of a client, financial institution. They determined they had 300 services they needed up and running within 24 hours in case there was an attack or in case something happened to their data or their environment. That they defined as what their requirement was. Then you go about working with them to do a few things. You identify and then there are other phases around that I can talk about that as well. >> I was going to go over to IBM a little bit in that obviously, you're with IBM and we're talking about storage, people may not realize how integral storage is now in security, but IBM brings to the table a lot more than just storage. >> Absolutely. >> So can you talk a little bit about that portfolio and IBM's approach? >> Sure, so when I talk about the NIST framework and I talk about the identify stage, there's also things around protection, protecting the environment and those services and those systems. The infrastructure, we do a lot in that space. It's around detection. So now that you've got the protection, and protection might include things like having identity management, having access control, just making sure that the applications are at the latest code levels. Often times that's when the vulnerability comes in when you don't have those security patches installed. Data protection and when it comes to that segment, we've got a very rich portfolio of data protection capabilities with our Spectrum Protect offerings. From a protection perspective, going into an encryption, having capabilities where the infrastructure is designed to have multiple types. You can have physical separation, so you can have an air gap, things like tape are ideal for that because it's physically separated. Tiering to the cloud. You can have technologies like write once read many where they're immutable, you can't change those. You can read them but you can't change them. We've done a lot of work in innovation around what we call safeguarded copies. This is making snapshots, but those snapshots are not deletable, they're access controlled, they're read-only. That allows you to very quickly bring up an environment. >> I think people don't realize that, I see some patterns of, sometimes these things hide. They'll be in there and they will be innocuous so you can't just restore the last backup. >> That's right. >> They may try to rewrite the backup so you may have to go back and find a good one. >> Absolutely, and detection is very important. Detecting that as early as possible is the best way to reduce the cost of recovering from these kinds of events. But like you said, I think I want to say 160 days, your environment might be exposed for 160 days before you detect it. So having capabilities in a portfolio in our offerings, and we do a lot working with a research team our security team on things like our data protection where we have algorithms built in where we look for patterns and we look for anomalies. As soon as we see the patterns for malware, ransomware, we alert the operator so you don't allow it to be resident for that period of time. You quickly try to identify it. Another example is in our infrastructure management software. You can see your whole heterogeneous storage environment. You typically start out by base lining a normal environment, similar to the backup piece but then it looks for anomalies, and are there certain things happening in the network, the storage that warns the operator. >> I almost get the feeling that sometimes it's almost like termites. You don't realize you have a problem until it's too late because they haven't been visible. In a 160 day window, whatever it might be, you might be passed that but because whatever that attack was, it was malicious and as clandestine enough that you didn't find it and it does cause problems so as we're wrapping up here, what kind of confidence do you want to share with the end users with people to let them know that there are tools that they can deploy. That it's not all grim reaper. But it is difficult. >> It is difficult, it's very real. But it's absolutely something that every business can have under control, have a plan around. From an IBM perspective, we are number one leader in security, we're the leader in security. Our focus is not just at a software level, it's starting from the chips we design to the servers we deliver to the storage, the flash core modules, FIPS 140 compliance, the storage software, the data protection, the storage management software all the way through the stack. All the way through our cloud infrastructure. Having that comprehensive end to end security and we have those capabilities, we also have services. Our services and security organization work with clients to establish these, evaluate the environment, establish these strategies and interim plans. It's really about creating the plan, prioritizing it and implementing it, making sure the whole organization is aware and educated on it. >> You got to prepare no doubt about that. Thanks for the time Bina, we appreciate that. And it's not all doom and gloom but it is tough. Tough work and very necessary work. Back with more here on The Cube. You're watching our coverage from vmworld 2019, Here in San Francisco.

>> Announcer: Live from San Diego, California it's The Cube! Covering Cisco Live US 2019. Brought to you by Cisco and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to The Cube's coverage of Cisco Live Day 2 from sunny San Diego. I'm Lisa Martin joined by Dave Vallante. Dave and I have an alumni, a Cube alumni back with us, Jeff Moncrief, consulting systems engineer from Cisco. Jeff, welcome back! >> Thank you very much, it's great to be back! >> So, we're in the DevNet Zone, loads of buzz going on behind us. This community is nearly 600,000 strong. We want to talk with you about Stealthwatch. You did a very interesting talk yesterday. You said, it had a couple hundred folks in there. War stories from real networks. War stories ... strong descriptor. Talk to us about what that means, what some of those war stories are, and how Stealthwatch can help customers learn from that and eradicate those. >> So it's called Saved by Stealthwatch. It was a really good session. This is the third Cisco Live that I've presented this session at. And it's really just stories from actual customer networks where I've actually deployed Stealthwatch into. I've been selling Stealthwatch for about five years now. And I've compiled quite a list of stories, right? And it really ... if you think about advanced threats and insider threats and those kinds of exciting things, the presentation was really about getting back to fundamentals. Getting back to the fact that in all these years that I've been working with customers and using Stealthwatch, a lot of the scary things that I have found have nothing to do with that. With the advanced type threat stuff. It really has to do with the fact that they're forgetting the basics. Their firewalls are wide open, their networks are flat. Their segmentation boundaries aren't being adhered to. So it's allowed us to come in and expose a lot of scary things that were going on and they were just completely oblivious to it. >> Why are those gaps there? Is it because of a change management issue? Technology's moving so quickly? Lack of automation? >> Yeah, I think there's a couple reasons that I've seen. It's a recurring theme really. Limited resources ... number one. Number two, limited budgets, so your priorities have to shift. But I think a big one that I've seen a lot is turnover and attrition. A lot of times we'll go in with Stealthwatch and we'll kick off an evaluation or whatnot and the customer will say, I just don't know what's there. I don't know if I have 100 machines that need visibility or for a thousand. And I'm a Stealthwatch cloud consulting systems engineer so the cloud world is where I spend a lot of my time now and what I'm seeing as it relates to the cloud realm is that's exponentially worse now. Because now you've got things like devops and shadow IT that are all playing in the customer's public cloud environment deploying workloads, deploying instances and building things that the security team has no awareness of. So there's a lot of things that are living and breathing on the network that they just don't know about. >> And so the tribal knowledge leaves the building, how do you guys help solve that problem? >> So we come in ... and you know the last time that you and I spoke, you used the term cockroaches, I think, which I loved. I actually have used that a lot since then, so thank you for that. >> Dave: Yeah, you're welcome. >> No, but, you know ... we come in and we actually, we turn the customer's network infrastructure ... Whether it's on-prem or in the public cloud into a giant security sensor grid. And we leverage something called NetFlow, which you've probably heard of. And it's essentially allowing us to account for every conversation throughout the entire infrastructure, whether or not it's on-prem or in the public cloud or maybe even in a private cloud. We've got you covered in that area. And it allows us to expose every one of those living, breathing things. And then we can just query the system. So think of us like a giant network DVR on steroids. We see everything, you can't hide from us, because we're using the network to look at everything. And then we can just set little trip wires up. And that's kind of what I go into in my presentation also is how you can set these trip wires ahead of time to find things that are going on that you just didn't know about and frankly, they're probably going to scare ya. >> One of the stories that you shared in your talk yesterday. You talk about people really forgetting the basics. A university that had a vending machine breach. You just think, a vending machine in a cafeteria? >> Jeff: That's right. >> Really? Tell us about that. What kind of data was exposed from a vending machine? >> So that's one of my favorite stories to tell. We had gone in and we'd installed Stealthwatch at a small university in the US. And they had a very small team. Okay, you're going to see that recurring theme. Limited staff. And they really just had a firewall. Okay, that was what they were doing for security. So we came in, we enabled NetFlow, we kind of let Stealthwatch do it's thing for a couple of days, and I just queried the system. Okay, it's not rocket science, it's not AI a lot of times, it's really the fundamentals. And I just said, tell me anything talking on remote desktop protocols inside the network out to the internet. And lo and behold, there was one IP address that had communication from it to every bad country you can imagine ... actively. And I said to them ... I said, what is this IP address? What's it doing? And that was in the conference room in the university with their staff and the guy looked it up in the asset inventory system, and he looked at me and he goes, that's a vending machine. And I said, a vending machine? And he said, yeah. And then I was like, okay, well that's a first, I've never heard of that before. And he goes wait a minute, it's a dirty tray return machine. You ever heard of one of those? >> Lisa: No. >> I hadn't either. >> Lisa: Explain. >> So for loss prevention, I guess universities and other public institutions, they will buy these unique vending machines that are designed for loss prevention. So that the college students don't go around and you know, steal or throw away the trays from the cafeteria. You have to return the tray to get a coin. There's a common supermarket chain that does the same thing with their shopping carts. And it's for loss prevention. So I said, okay, that's pretty strange. Even stranger than just vending machine. And I said, well did you realize that it was talking to a remote desktop all over the world? And he said no. And I said so, can you tell me what it has access to? So he looked it up in the firewall manager right there and he said, it has access to the entire network. Flat network, no segmentation. No telling how long this had been going on, and we exposed it. >> And Stealthwatch exposes those gaps with just kind of old school knock on the door. >> Yeah, it really is. We're talking about fundamental network telemetry that we're gathering off the route switch infrastructure itself. You know, obviously, we're at Cisco Live, we work really well with Cisco gear. Cisco actually invented NetFlow about 20 years ago. And we leveraged that to give visibility footprint that allow us to expose things like the vending machine. I've found hospital x-ray machines that were scanning all the US military, for instance. I find things in the cloud that are just completely wide open from a security ACL standpoint. So we've got that fundamental level of visibility with Stealthwatch, and then we kick in some really cool machine learning and statistical analytics and machine running analytics and that allows us to look for anomalies that would be indicators of compromise. So we're taking that visibility footprint and we're taking it to that next level looking for threats that might be in the customer's environment. >> So before we get to the machine intelligence, I presume that cloud and containers only makes this problem worse. What are you seeing in the field? How are you dealing with that? >> So we're in a landscape today where we've got a lot of customers that might be cloud averse. But we've also got a lot of customers that are on the wide other side of that spectrum and they're very cloud progressive. And a lot of them are doing things like server-less micro services, containers and, when you think of containers you think of container orchestration ... kubernetes. So Stealthwatch Cloud is actually in that realm right now today, able to protect and illuminate those environments. That's really the Wild West right now, is trying to protect those very abstract server-less and containerized environments but yeah, we come in, we are able to deploy inside kubernetes clusters or AWS or azure or GCP, and tell the Stealthwatch story in those environments, find segmentation violations, find firewall holes just like we would on premise, and then look for anomalies that would be interesting. >> So the security paradigm for those three you mentioned, those three cloud vendors, and you're on-prem, and maybe even some of your partners, is a lot of variability there. How should customers deal with maintaining the edicts of the organization and sort of busting down those silos? >> Yeah, so you think about like Stealthwatch Cloud which is the product that I'm a CSE for, we're really focusing on automation, high efficacy and accuracy. All right, we're not going to be triggering hundreds or thousands of alerts whenever you plug us in. It's going to further bog down a limited team. They've got limited time and they have to change their priorities constantly. This solution is designed to work immediately out of the box quickly deploy within a matter of hours. It's all SAAS based so actually it lives in the cloud. And it really takes that burden off of the organization of having to go and set a bunch of policies and trip wires and alerts. It does it automatically. It's going to let you know when you need to take a look at it so that you can focus on your other priorities. >> So curious where your conversations are within an organization - whether it's a hospital, or a university when what you're finding is in this multi-cloud world that we live in where there's attrition and all of these other factors contributing to organizations that don't know what they have with multi-cloud edge comes this very amorphous perimeter, right? Where are those conversations because if data is the lifeblood of an organization, if it's not secure and protected, if it's exposed there's a waterfall of problems that could come with that. So is this being elevated into the C-Suite of an organization? How do you start those conversations? >> So it's not just the C-Suite and the executive type structure that we're having to talk to now, traditionally we would go in with the Stealthwatch opportunity and talk to the teams in the organization it's going to be the InfoSec team, right? As we move to the cloud though, we're talking about a whole bunch of different teams. You've got the InfoSec team, you've got the network operations team now, they're deploying those workloads. The big one though that we've really got to think about and what we've really got to educate our customers on is the Dev Ops teams. Because the Dev Ops teams, they're really the ones that are deploying those cloud workloads now. You've got to think about ... they've got API access, they've got direct console login access. So you've got multiple different entry points now into all these different heterogeneous environments. And a lot of times, we'll go in and we'll turn on Stealthwatch and we show the organization, yeah, you knew that Dev Ops was in the VPC's deploying things, but you didn't know the extent that they were deploying them. >> Lights up like a Christmas tree? >> Yeah, lights up like a Christmas tree and like a conversation I had last week with a customer. I asked them, I said, all right so you're in AWS, are we talking do you have 50 instances or do you have 500? He said, I have no idea. Because I'm not the one deploying these instances. I'm just lucky enough to get permission to have access to them to let you plug your stuff in to show me what's going on in that environment. But yet they're in charge of securing that data. So it's quite frightening. >> So you've got discovery, you've got ways to expose the gaps, and then you're obviously advising on remediation activity. And you're also bringing in machine intelligence. So what's the endgame there? Is it automation? Is it systems of agency where the machine is actually taking action? Can you explain that? So when the statistical analysis comes in and the anomaly detection comes in, it's really that network DVR, so we've got the data, now let's do some really cool things with it. And that's where we're in actually, for every single one of these entities, and I do stress entities because the days of operating systems and IP addresses are going away. Face it, it's happening. Things are becoming more and more abstract. You know, API keys, user accounts, lambda's and runtime compute, we have to think about those. So what we do for all these different entities is we build a model for each one of these, and that model, that's where all the math and the AI comes in. We're going to learn Known Good for it. Who do they talk to? How much data's sent or received? And then we start looking for activity in that infrastructure as it relates to that entity that's outside of that Known Good model. So that would be the anomaly detection and you know, our anomaly detection, it really can be attributed to two different major categories. Number one is going to be, we're looking for things that cross the cyber kill chain. So those different IOC's as a threat actually manifests. That's what the anomaly detection's doing. And then we're also looking for just straight compliance and configuration violations in the customer's cloud infrastructure, for instance, that would just be a flat out security risk today, day one, forget base lining anomaly detection, it should just not be configured that way. >> Let's see, roughly 25% of Cisco's revenue is in services, what role does the customer service team play in all this? How do you interact ... how do the product guys and the service guys work together? >> So we've got a great customer experience team, customer services team for Stealthwatch and it doesn't matter if we're talking Stealthwatch on-premise or the Stealthwatch cloud, they cover both. And what will happen is we'll come in from a pre-sales standpoint, we do the evaluation, show good value, and then we've got a good relationship with the CX team where we'll hand that off to them, and then we'll work with the CX team to make sure that customer is good to go, they're taken care of, and it's not we've sold this and we're just going to forget you type scenario. They do a good job of coming in, they make sure that the customer's needs are met, any feature requests that they like taken care of. You know, they have routine touchpoints with the customers and they make sure that the product, for all intents and purposes, doesn't lose interest or visibility in the customer's environment. That they're using it, they're getting good value out of it, and we're going to build a relationship. I call it cradle to grave. We're going to be with that customer cradle to grave. >> Now Jeff, one of the things I didn't talk to you about at Google Next was ... first I got to ask you, you're a security guy, right? Have you always been a security guy? >> Yeah, security for about 20 years now, dating back to internet security systems. >> The question I often ask security guys is who's your favorite superhero? >> My favorite superhero ... I'd say Batman. >> Dave: Batman? >> Yeah. >> I like Batman. (chuckles) The reason I ask is that somebody told me one time that true security guys, they love superheroes because they grew up kind of wanting to save the world and protect the innocent. So ... just had to ask. >> Yeah there you go .. Batman. >> I'm sensing a tattoo coming. Last question for you Jeff is in terms of time to business impact, the vending machine story is just so polarizing because it's such a shocking massive exposure point, did they ever discover how long it had been open and in terms of being able to remedy that, how quickly can Stealthwatch come in, identify these- >> So very quick operation wise. So like the vending machine story, that's something that if you turn on Flow, and you send it to Stealthwatch right now, we can pick that up in 10 minutes. That quick to visibility and value. Now how long has it been going on? A lot of times they can't answer that question because they've never had anything to illuminate that to begin with. But moving forward, now they've got a forensic incident response audit trail capability with Stealthwatch which is actually a pretty common use case. Especially if you think about things like PCI that have got auto requirements and whatnot. A lot of organizations if they're not using a Flow based security analytics tool, they can't always meet those audit and forensic requirements. So at least from the point of installing Stealthwatch they'll be good to go from that point forward. >> So if they can find an anomaly that needs to be rectified in 10 minutes, what's the next step for them to actually completely close that gap? >> So like with Cisco Identity Services engine, we've got a great integration there where we can actually take action, shut off that machine instantly. We can shut off a switch port. We can isolate that machine to an isolated sandboxed VLAN, get it off the network, and then in the cloud, we can do things like automated remediation. We can use things like Amazon and Lambda to actually shut off an instance that might be compromised. We can actually use Lambda's to insert firewall rules. So if we find a hole, we can plug it. Very easily, automated- >> Ship a function to it and plug a hole. >> Batman slash detective. I think you need a tattoo and a badge. >> I can work on that, I like it. >> Jeff thank you so much for joining Dave and me on The Cube this afternoon. >> My pleasure. >> Really interesting stuff, we appreciate your time. >> Absolutely. >> For Dave Vallante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube's second day of coverage of Cisco Live from San Diego. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)