(upbeat music) >> Hey, everyone, welcome to theCube's special program series Women of the Cloud brought to you by AWS. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I'm very pleased to welcome back one of our alumni Adrianna Bustamante joins me, the VP of Global Alliances at Rackspace Technology. Adrianna, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for joining me today. >> Lisa, thank you so much for having me again. I love this. >> Yeah, me too. Tell me a little bit about you, a little bit about Rackspace Technology, as well as the role that you currently have. >> Sure, so again, I'm Adrianna Bustamante. I look after our global alliances within Rackspace, specifically looking after some of our strategic partners. I've been with Rackspace for a little over 16 years now, working with partners in some form or fashion. Rackspace Technology, we are the multicloud solution experts. We really work with our clients to drive business outcomes and transformations in this multicloud world. And our mission is to embrace technology, empower our customers, and deliver the future. And I get to have the fun pleasure of building and curating and cultivating partnership relationships. So very much our partnerships are important to our success. We are privileged to be able to work with AWS along with other partners across the industry to help do more, and bring more value to clients. >> So you've been with Rackspace Technology for a while. Tell me a little bit about recommendations. Any tactical recommendations that you have for other women, maybe even men who are looking to grow their careers in tech maybe they're wanting to get into tech. What are some of the things that you've learned along the way that you highly recommend? >> Yeah, no, great, great question. I've had the fortune of being at Rackspace now for a number of years, and it's always 'cause I've been able to create my own opportunities and work. And so that really falls in line to some of the recommendations that I hold dear to my heart. And number one is really to stay curious and learn, from reading articles, to staying close, and asking questions from your colleagues. You know, I know just like at AWS and at Rackspace, there are some very talented people across all areas of the business, and they are the best to learn from. You know, I also am a firm believer in developing and expanding that network 'cause that helps you bring and build out your reach and helps you continue to learn in different areas outside the company. I think from raising your hand, leaning in, don't be afraid to speak up. Especially as we think about, you know, women of the cloud which is part of what the theme of this session is. And I think about, you know, how much I love to see women elevated within roles inside of Rackspace and out, you know. It is about raising your hand, getting uncomfortable in speaking up if you're, if you are a bit shy or timid. If there's an area that you are interested in and passionate about, go learn and drive. Because there's opportunities to create new roles for yourself, new ways to bring value into the organization. And then you become memorable for, you know, that, you know this person was known for helping solve this problem. It's been a good fortune. And within our company culture of any Racker, the front lines know how to solve most problems just as much as the top executives. >> Yeah, I love you saying stay curious. I think curiosity is probably one of the best things that people can have. It's, to your point of, I like to call it getting comfortably uncomfortable. Raise your hand, ask a question. I always think, if you're in a meeting, and maybe you tune out or there's something that you don't understand, ask a question. 'Cause I guarantee there's five other people in that room that have the same question, but they're not curious enough or hungry enough to ask the question to learn more. So I think those are such great recommendations that you have provided that I think you probably would tell your younger self stay curious, ask questions. >> Yes, for sure. I also am so big, at least for me personally, context is so important for me. If I understand context, then I'm really able to figure out where can I drive the most value for me personally. And then that goes into leading my teams. And so to me, the only way you get the context is if you're learning or asking the questions if you don't understand. 'Cause it really helps you understand the holistic business. >> A hundred percent. That context is everything. But a lot of people are just a little bit timid sometimes and don't want to be the one to raise their hand in a room or online these days. And I think it's such a great skill that anybody can benefit from. I'd love to know some of your other skills. Some examples of specific success stories where in your current role, where you've really helped organizations solve problems related to the cloud. >> Yes, so, you know, and I think about ultimately we're looking to see and always looking to see how we can help transform our clients' businesses. And often the underlying root of that is through technology solutions. And so, you know, we've helped clients who are mostly, you know, legacy data center based clients that have built large infrastructure components and environments, and they want to learn and lean into the cloud. And they're not really sure how to do that. They probably may have a leader that's told them that they need to do this. Everybody's at a different level of journey. And so, you know, specifically, and especially in partnership with some of our hyperscaler partners just at like AWS is, you know, we can help customers understand what that journey needs to look like. How to successfully move, let's say if they're a large VMware shop today they already have a little bit of cloud native. You know, together through our ecosystem of relationships, we've helped customers not only be able to build and maintain part of their data center footprint that's not ready yet to transform, but move some of this into a facility that is within our data centers to get out of that huge kind of CapEx heavy workload type environment. And then, and especially with AWS, and the partnership that they have along with Rackspace, with VMware, we leverage BMC on AWS solutions. And then we can help them fully embrace that cloud native. And from a Rackspace perspective we are providing those services and expertise across all levels in a single pane of glass. So you can manage from your more traditional workloads to embracing more of a cloud native approach. >> And it's all about helping clients drive business outcomes as you said. Every organization these days, I always like to think, whether it's my grocery store retailer or bank has to be a data driven company. But it has to leverage obviously the cloud. But there's so many options. It's quite nebulous, no pun intended, maybe pun intended. So, but it's all about helping clients drive those business outcomes. I imagine it's quite fulfilling for you to be able to help different types of organizations really maximize their use of technology, their understanding of technology, to really build bridges, deliver the products and services that everybody's expecting these days. >> Yes. No and I think what I, again, it's what I love about being in partnerships because those relationships become fundamental in helping remove those complexities for the clients. And so the more that we as Rackspace are able to connect and deepen these relationships it just becomes less decision making, less things that the client ultimately has to think about. So nothing gives me more joy than being able to help solve the customer's problems. And then in turn we're doing that through our partnership relationships. So we're bringing everybody together to ultimately provide a better outcome for the client. >> Yeah. And as you said, those relationships are foundational to everything and ultimately the outcomes that the end customer is able to deliver to these demanding, whether it's consumer or business or whatnot. A lot of challenges that organizations have today. But it sounds like the relationship cultivating that you're helping lead is really critical in those organizations being able to embrace technology, utilize it in ways that allow them to get products and services to market as fast as the consumer demands. I'd love to get your perspective as a female in technology. We talk a lot about diversity, inclusion, equity. We can talk about it all day long, but there's still some challenges there. What are some of the challenges that you see that are still persistent with respect to diversity and tech today? And maybe some of your recommendations to eradicate some of those? >> No, sure. So, you know, it starts really early. It starts almost in education and making sure that women, and a diverse set of applicants are taking certain, studying certain disciplines. And then I think about it from a recruiting and hiring perspective. Are organizations doing enough to expand their reach? You know, we were actually talking- I have the good fortune of being the executive sponsor of our resource group within Rackspace. It's called Power, which is the professional organization of women's empowerment at Rackspace. And we were talking just I think last week on, we need to make sure we're going where the women are to make sure we are letting them know about Rackspace, the benefits about Rackspace. And it ultimately, in turn that helps build more recruiting into the talent pool. More people are raising their hand and interviewing and hiring. I think talent in general as we're seeing right now, is so hard to come by, and so even more important to retain. And the more diverse pools that we have of Rackers, it's just bringing different perspectives, and Rackers are what we call Rackspace employees. It's bringing those Rackers together to help solve the bigger problems. Because you're able to do more with a diverse set of outlook. And I think, you know, as a woman, I want to have that equitable seat at the table. And so ultimately when I think about myself from a leadership perspective, am I making sure that all of those opportunities are available for the women that come along behind me? And how am I elevating other women within our organization from a day-to-day so they have that spotlight. So, you know, fundamentally, organizations need to focus on how to expand that reach to bring that diverse set of applicants and voices. And then you need strong leaders at every level to be advocates and sponsors to make sure that this is an important topic and top of mind in all organizations. So you can ultimately provide an equitable approach. >> Yeah, I love that. I agree a hundred percent. You know, it's so important to start at the education front, but also to be able to have just the thought diversity alone in organizations. I've seen many studies that show having females in executive positions are, companies that do that, are more profitable. There's a lot of data out there that demonstrates that there are huge advantages to any type of organization to really invest in diversity. But to your point, it's not just about attracting, it's about retaining the talent as well. I mean that, that is critical for every business. >> Yes. No absolutely. You know, more and more we're starting to see that soft benefits are becoming more important as we think about a younger workforce coming in. And when I think about soft benefits, it's more around our employee resource groups. What our benefits look like for our females within our healthcare, within the insurance plans? What type of time off and maternity benefits are we extending? What does that work-life balance look like in a hybrid world or a virtual world? Those questions become, I mean, when I remember years ago no one would even think about asking those questions. And now we see, not only those questions coming up more regularly, but we are trying to be more intentional within our organization. To be proactive about that messaging so we can help show and demonstrate that we are an inclusive community. And that there's support for women to be successful within Rackspace. You know, we have mentoring programs that we do that are you know, that we really try to highlight and promote for our female community. And then also for our broader community. We look at building different circles that women can come together in a space that they feel comfortable to ask questions. To figure out how do they excel and advance in their career. Those become very attractive for getting that talent that we want. >> Absolutely. And you just brought up such a great point, Adrianna and that's intention. Programs like what you're describing that the Rackers have opportunity to access, is that there's intention in all of this. Which is so critical for diversity programs to be successful. To attract the right talent, to retain the right talent. It's like a flywheel, I think it's all, it's all linked together. But I'd love to know what you see that's next in cloud. How do you see your role evolving in the industry? We talked about the great relationship building that you're doing. What do you see as next in cloud? >> No, sure. Again, 'cause I helplessly can't be biased. It is all about to me that that partner ecosystem. It is how we can build strong relationships that help minimize the complexities for the clients. You know, now the pace for innovation and competitive edge is faster than it was than we saw 24 months ago. You know, we saw COVID advance lots of different areas of the business, but really it forced a lot of companies to transform. And this is where I think there's a unique opportunity to really look at what a partner ecosystem looks like. You know, who are the right partners that organizations like AWS, like Rackspace should be working with. 'Cause oftentimes the partners that were our partners and key partners, maybe three to five years ago, maybe aren't going to be as relevant in that same ecosystem in the next five years. So constantly making sure that we have the right ecosystem in place, and the right relationships to help ultimately drive better outcomes for the clients. >> And that's like we said several times already during this interview. It's all about the outcomes for clients. You mentioned COVID, you know, there's been- I call 'em COVID catalysts. A lot of transformation, forcing function. There's definitely been some silver linings, but I'd love to get your perspective if we go back like the last five years. Some of the biggest changes that you've seen in the tech workforce, in innovation, in the last, you know, three to five years that really excite you. >> Yeah, so I think we all had to learn to be virtual by default. And so I think we're just coming out. People are excited to be in person again. You know, when we have different events, whether they be with internal Rackers or with partners or clients, like everyone's excited to to see each other again. But you're still seeing this mix of, we need to be hybrid by default, which I know wasn't in everybody's DNA from a technology perspective. And I think that's enabling more virtual teams, more matrixed type of teams, where you're bringing together different expertise across the organization to move at a faster pace. You know, we talk about, you know, we talk about COVID which led to that great resignation where you saw many people changing their jobs. You know, we saw women not only within Rackspace, but even outside, like really, you know, take a pause and really start thinking about what's important to them in that returning to work. And so I just think all of this has really, as you mentioned, Lisa, of forcing function on being intentional to create the right environments that are building a place that we can retain that level of skill and expertise. And I think that's just going to become something that's more increasingly important with every year and profession choice. >> I agree. It's going to be building upon, like it's that flywheel that I'm talking about. That of successes, of promoting women, of making sure that there's plenty of opportunity. Encouraging women, to your point, to be curious raise your hand, ask the question. There's so much value, it's invaluable for organizations to really have diversity throughout their organization. You did a great job of explaining. Even in the benefits framework. So, I so appreciate you being on theCUBE. Adrianna, it's great to see you again. Thank you for sharing your story, the successes that you've had as a Racker in cloud, and some of the things that you recommend to the next generation. We really appreciate your time. >> No, thank you. If I can walk into more rooms where there is more women at the table and on the calls, I am a happier individual. So I love any opportunity to really see how we can continue to make more space in the rooms for women that are just overly talented and deserve to be there. >> I am with you on that. Again, thank you so much. Great to see you and we'll see you again soon. >> Thank you, Lisa. Take care. Have a good afternoon. >> Thank you. We want to thank you for watching theCube's special program series Women of the Cloud, brought to you by AWS. I'm Lisa Martin, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, friends, and welcome to another edition of this special program series from theCUBE highlighting the brilliant women of the cloud. I am absolutely thrilled to be joined today by a transformative visionary, accelerating the route to market for many of North Americans' top businesses. Please welcome Tia Wiggins of AWS. Tia, thank you so much for being here. >> Hello. Hello everyone. Thank you for having me. >> I know there's a lot that we're going to talk about tech and innovation and the very exciting parts of your role, both at AWS as well as on the philanthropy side. Excuse me. But before we get there, I want to know how you got to where you're sitting right now. >> Yes, yes. Well, I'm proud to say my entire family is STEM born and bred. You know, I think I have a more traditional American upbringing of parents that did not have college degrees, but they've always had us in programs. So, you know, like I say, proud today. I have two sisters who are doctors and I was on a path to be a pharmacist. And, you know, I had got sponsored by a leader that took me on through the business journey and allowed me to connect the STEM side of my life to helping businesses grow. I'm also, I'm proud to share that I'm a philanthropist. I do believe in building communities and removing barriers to help people grow. Also, you know, as a child of two military parents, you know, my mother leaned on programs, right? I went through local hospital programs that taught me about medicine, that taught me about math, school that taught me about physics, right? That were free and funded, that allowed me to, you know, explore and get exposure. So, with that, you know, I've always had a knack to figure out how do I, in my own capacity, not being a billionaire, not being, you know, a trust fund child, but how do I create resourcing to help others come along on this pathway, leveraging and bringing bridging the two of STEM and community together. So, yeah, that's a little bit about my background. >> Yeah, I mean, it seems like it's a lifelong commitment not just a career long commitment to the industry and you're very clearly a curious person. You mentioned the role that resources and community have played in your journey. How would you recommend others who may be interested in a similar career path or exploring technology and business take actionable steps to do some of the similar things to you've done? >> Absolutely. So, as I believe that I have everyone watching this from from early career before actually in college. So I would tell for the entry level for you to focus on first finding programs, you know, AWS we have programs that help you come into the cloud computing. We will help you get your cloud certification. We have great internship programs but then also too, you know, there's diverse programs like National Society of Black Engineers, Society of Women Engineers, Society of Hispanic Engineers. There's so many programs, right, that can help you gain those actual training will actually provide you a job and exposure so they can help you actually figure out what the path you want to take when it comes to STEM. What I would share for mid-level something that I do personally for myself is, after you're in the industry, is to write a vision. So my superpowers or is transformation and a vision and every year I start off with like a love letter to myself and it includes something related to my career; a bold move. And as I get crisp on to saying something dangerous that I want to go do, I share that with my sponsors. I share that with my network, what I call my tribe, and those individuals help me gain the experiences that actually make the moves to get there, right? And it might not be exact, right? I might not actually hit that move that year. But if I look backwards, I actually looked I actually took some of the steps that were needed and essential for me to thrive when I actually get there. So definitely I would say, you know, one, in terms of exposure with programs. Two, for if you're actually in your career, write your vision, right? Get real crisp what you want to go do about it and then share it with your team. And then the last point that I think is essential that we don't really talk about a lot is feedback, right? It sounds it's easy, but feedback is communication and how you perceive yourself is not how others always perceive you, right? And I do believe in having pride. I do believe you need a certain level of ego for yourself, right, to thrive. However, there is nuggets in there that can help you accelerate on your journey, right? So I take time and I actually go on listening circles and I ask about what are my blind spots? Like, just be honest, right? Something about the AWS culture I love is that we use this principle of being vocally self-critical, right? That creates a level of transparency and honesty for others to be honest with us about something that we might not see, right? Or we might have failed, right? Or we might need to improve. So I would say, again, programs, write your vision, right? You know I call it a love letter to make it more personalized. And then three, get your, get feedback. It's essential. >> I like that, there's almost like an id, an ego and an external to that, as well as a qualitative and a quantitative component to that which I think is really interesting. You know, I went to five different classes, or I try, I looked at six different YouTube videos to learn about these skills, versus I took the time to think about what that would actually mean to me and to myself. And I think a lot of folks at any stage in their career journey don't necessarily give themselves the time to have that type of reflection. So it's wonderful to see someone who's been as successful as you talk about both your process as well as that level of transparency and communication. Taking feedback is a skillset that you'll have to use in many aspects of your life moving forward. >> Yeah. It's just communication. That's all it is. Just communication. >> Absolutely. Yes, and working on that is a certainly a lifelong journey. You've had a lot of success in your 15 years of being in the cloud. Can you give us some examples of your favorite moments? >> Yeah, you know, I'm proud. Like I took some, I took very... I got along with that vision, right? I took some very critical steps to ensure that I was taking roles that created mobility, right? You know, going back to starting at BAE systems, working with a aerospace and defense contractor where I had to move different states and get exposure to different platforms and lines of business, IT, manufacturing, down to actually stepping into an international nonprofit firm where I worked the redesign of that company, right? You know, understanding different levels of contracts how do we go to route in the market with other foreign countries, right? And then coming back into my previous- >> Not simple problems there. >> Not simple at all! But pretty amazing. >> To give you a shout out on complexity, yeah. >> Complexity, right? And it constantly be moving. And also, side note to everyone, you know obtaining my additional degrees. So, you know, if you look at my background, you know you'll see a lot of HR former roles. But if you look at the components of those jobs, it was business building, project management agile management, change management, right? So when I, I will say two of my major success moves, well one would be I was chair at Northrop Grumman. It actually allowed me to crack my teeth when it comes to new business acquisition, business proposals, right? So take all that idea of programs but actually being a part of a team to go after some of our most sacred nation contracts and programs that protects our country, right? Building, coming up with a solution and strategy, using technology, using data modernization, pulling together cloud components and then actually going out there and actually identifying the talent across the world that will be aligned to this. And making that and being a part of that team and actually signing off and saying, "Alright, this is what we believe is the best program for our solutions, for our employees for our world, for our nation," right? Had several multiple multi-billion dollar contracts that I worked on that we actually won with the Northrop Grumman that really also, from a side note, helped me build my confidence to say, "Hey, I can do more." Like, "Hey, I don't have 50 years in this industry but you know what I know is I have exposure, I have experience, I have, hey, I have an idea," right? And I know about technology and tools and how this links together into a story to say, "Hey, how does this bring value?" So I would say we had several, again national security programs that I was a part of, and then here at Amazon to speak more for our partners, right? Our partner experience. Just this year, you know, coming into my role within two quarters, we actually delivered, we actually confirmed that we actually identify Amazon opportunities for our partners, right? We believe Amazon opportunities helping our partners route to market helps them actually identify better partner opportunities so we can actually help them attach them to an actual customer. With that, within two quarters we were able to deliver over- >> Just to insert number for scale for folks listening. >> Yes. >> You have over a hundred thousand partners, correct? >> That's right, we have over a hundred thousand partners. >> So echoing on the complexity, it's not just like you're matchmaking, you know, two different people from two different sides of the fence here. >> No. >> The matrix is massive in the flywheel. That's wild. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, with that, we took a subset to start with a subset of partners to say, "Hey how do we just pilot an experiment," right? If we did an exercise where we actually you know, do, you know use tools to identify opportunities that better aligned to partners, and how do we deliver that to them, right? Versus us reacting to just waiting for them to provide something to us. Within- >> What's the biggest challenges for you there? >> Oh gosh. Complexity, right? >> Yeah. >> Complexity partner types. You know, we deal with, you know, system integrators, we deal with independent software vendors, resellers - everyone has their own additional needs. They have their own complexity, they have their own in terms of their makeup, right? In terms of resourcing. So, you know, we have to, on top of that, we have to work with the partner to make sure they're actually ready and equipped to actually receive opportunities from us. And then also how do we help work with them to build a sales plan to go after those opportunities. So it's, it's all of the if you think about the flywheel, yeah we could throw something over the line, but we also have to work with them as one team to say, okay how do we help make this help you launch this opportunity with the customer, with us? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so what do you hope to see coming in the next five years? Where do you hope your role takes you at the next... >> Oh gosh. You know, I don't actually go off five years because if I look back at the last 15, I didn't imagine all those different opportunities, by the way. Right? >> Love that. So true. >> So, yeah. So I don't, again, it goes back to like I hate putting boxes over myself and but vision-wise, you know, just to say thank you to my mentors, to my sponsors, you know, I see myself C-suite, right? I see myself over an organization helping again connecting the dots with business growth and opportunities. Now, is it Amazon, I hope? Be wonderful, right? But if it's another large Fortune 500 company, absolutely. But in far, in terms of the cloud computing industry I mean, we're the unimaginable, right? You already, you talk about, you know AI we've talked about in the past, we talk about this meta, you know, this digital transformative world where we're living virtually. That scares me, right? By the way, just to be honest, everyone. But, I do believe that as a company, we are going to be moving to be more digital, you know, I do believe our customers will be more digital. I do think in more virtual engagement, right? And I see myself building those programs to help ensure that our workforce is there, that our sellers are there, that we can actually continue to drive growth and that they're actually equipped to actually align to those opportunities to help our customers grow their business. >> Yeah. The acceleration and the evolution of the modern workforce is a challenge that so many businesses are facing right now. I'm sure tens of thousands, if not all of the six-figure plus partners in your program are experiencing a dynamic range of challenges as a result. And they are all very lucky to have you there to support them. Hopefully everyone at AWS is listening to that nice plug and opportunity to promote you to the C-suite where I'm sure you belong, as time goes on. Switching from digital to diversity just a little bit, it's clear that you have had people in your community who have mentored you and taught and been a part of the education side of your journey. And I'm curious to see, or curious to ask you rather, what are the challenges that you still see in diversity in general today? >> Yeah. Well, you know, it unfortunately is still here. You know, we still have unconscious bias, right? In senior level career advancement. I think that's embedded in our culture and that's something that we constantly have to combat. You know, I was also trained under the mindset and had this belief that say, "Hey let your work speak for yourself." And in reality, it's not about your work, it's also about who knows you and who actually wants to know about you, right? And that equals unconscious bias, right? Someone that actually, you know, for people to see you for who you are and see what you actually contribute versus they just liking you. So, you know, and also too, you know we've run into the issue of being taught in our culture to lean in, right? For a moment there, I believe that, but at some point when you look around and you're like, "Oh gosh, you know I worked all last year, but my pay was only this." Or, "Hey, that person got promoted and they only worked on this one thing." And then you, and then it pinches like, oh, it's still there, right? So I just believe as leaders and including myself as my commitment is like any organization of my part like how do I advocate for others? How do I create opportunities? How do I address it? I'm very blessed to have a leader that also sees what's possible in me and creates those opportunities and, you know, removes those roadblocks and those barriers. But I, you know, I can't lie is that, you know, I've also personally been through that. But then again, I look around my family and my community and I have, you know family that's also civil servants, public servants. This is nothing new, right? And, you know, and I go around them and I get empowered to say, "Hey, you know you can actually do this and this is how you can overcome this." But then also with your commitment as a leader my commitment is how do I create those pathways for others and remove those barriers. And when I see that, how do I address it? >> And how to really be what you're touching on there so much is allyship. >> Yes! >> I think there's, it takes, being an ally takes many forms across workplaces and functions and genders and demographics and anything quite frankly. And not everyone can advocate for themselves as loudly as someone else can. And that's particularly if whatever that demographic is sees itself a lot on the leadership side of things. But it's really easy to compliment a friend or a teammate, and I think it's actually pretty easy to say nice things about them in the room when they're not in there. And that's one of the easiest ways to be an ally. And I love that you just brought that up. I think that, yeah, we just, we forget that someone else is still fighting to be noticed. And when I was looking at your, you let the work speak for itself. One of the lines that I've always referenced is "be so good they can't ignore you" which kind of combines exactly what you just mentioned is the being noticed piece. And I think it's all of our jobs to help other people and the right people and projects get noticed. So, I really love that. >> Yeah. >> Final question for you- >> So actually, just another quick line about that, you know. >> Yeah. >> And also, you know, and this is another reality about this is knowing when to walk away, right? Cause some people can chew and, you know, I do believe in closed doors are a blessing. You know, when you face rejection, you know it's redirection to where you need to go. But I also do believe like I was at this conference years ago and this woman made this analogy. There's, you know, she said, "There's a million men out there, you know, if it doesn't work for you, go get another one." And that's the idea is that your one company is not your only company. There's other companies that might be better aligned to you. Believe in yourself that you're worth it to go find another opportunity that's better aligned where people can actually celebrate you versus where they say this concept of tolerates you. So I just put that out there, is that bold belief that you have to know that about yourself to know that, hey, you're worth it, and there is another company that you can thrive and you're going to be okay. And when you do it, you'll be happy that you actually took that leap of faith. And that's something that I've taken. And when I know that, hey, my time's up, if I sense that if I see that, then I just will move on it. And I'm okay. >> I've been back here behind the curtain just snapping as you've been talking. I couldn't agree more. The only brand you're ever going to represent your whole life is you. >> Yeah. >> And I think you just nailed it. I was going to ask you for some closing inspiration, but I think you you just nailed it with that statement to be quite honest. So I don't want to poison the well. Tia Wiggins, thank you so much for joining us. It is very clear why you are a go-to market leader and AWS is very lucky to have you. And thank you to our audience for joining us for this a special program series here on theCUBE where we are featuring women of the cloud. My name's Savannah Peterson, and may the skies be clear and blue and with beautiful clouds in your universe today. (upbeat music)

(sparkly music) >> Welcome to the Cube Special Program series "Women of the Cloud", brought to you by AWS. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I'm very pleased to welcome Veronica McCarthy to the program, Senior Sales Manager ISB for Amazon Web Services. Veronica, great to have you on the program. Thanks for joining me today. >> Thanks for having me. >> Tell me a little bit about your current role. A little bit about yourself. >> Absolutely. Yeah, so I've been at Amazon just about four years now. I am really passionate about technology. I've been in the tech industry for about 20 plus years. Right now I'm a sales leader, so I lead a team of folks that help software companies build technology in the cloud or move technology to the cloud and help them scale and innovate in the cloud. >> Awesome, I love that. Talk a little bit about for, for those looking to grow their careers in tech, what are some of the tactical recommendations that you have that you think are really, really pertinent for others that are looking to climb that ladder? >> Yeah, it's so important to have that passion for technology 'cause that's what we do every day. It excites me to jump out of bed and learn what's new, what's coming, what we're building together and how early we are in cloud computing and in technology as a whole. So really get curious and even, you know feel free to get, get hands on. I remember early as a kid just building computers with my dad in his room. So get hands on. Today there's so many things available on the internet for free tiers. You can just play with software to get building websites, games, whatever interests you. And oh by the way, watch the Cube 'cause you're going to learn a lot and you're going to get immersed in technology, which is so important when you're learning to grow a career here because it comes across when you're interviewing, when you're talking with others, when you're networking, that you're really interested in the topic and you're really here to, to grow and and help build tech to be what it can be in the future. >> These are all great recommendations for really building that authenticity. I love your advice of really from an immersion perspective. You're right, there's so many opportunities for people of all ages to start playing around with tech and, and, but that your point of opening up your mind and being curious and embracing the different learning paths is also that curiosity. I always think creativity as well are just really important recommendations for others that are looking to grow their career in tech. >> I want to understand some of, based on some of, of those tactical recommendations. Talk to us about a success story that you've had where you've solved problems for customers relating to cloud computing based on some of your recommendations. >> Totally, just picking up on the curiosity theme that we were talking about, one of the things that I did when I was earlier in my career and I was looking after a customer, is I got curious about their business. How did they interact with their customers? And I worked backwards from that experience 'cause they were selling to consumers and I said what if they could do all these other things that could open up the consumer's eyes? So I came up with a zany idea of what if they did a partnership with Amazon and we flew their goods directly to the end consumer by a drone, you know, just crazy stuff. And I wrote something called a PRFAQ which at Amazon we use very often. It's a press release, frequently asked questions. This PRFAQ was, what could you do in the future with tech? What could, you know things what could we unlock with tech in your business? The C-suite of this company said, "You know what, that's really interesting. We're not going to do that crazy drone thing. But we like the thinking, we like the learning we like thinking about the future. How does cloud help us unlock that future?" So the long story short, they had a monolith OnPrem getting their, getting their technology from a OnPrem monolith to microservices in the cloud unlocks and opens up APIs for them to partner with other organizations to grow their customer base and in turn grow their revenue. This company in particular, pandemic hit, market change. They had to pivot or else they were going to go out of business. And because we had moved their technology from an OnPrem monolith to the cloud they were able to make that pivot and they survived the pandemic and are thriving. So it's a real life example of a success story of just getting curious, understanding the customer's business, coming back from that and then aligning for the future and getting a customer to, to get curious with you and build for the future, which worked out. And who could have predicted the pandemic, but it worked >> Right. But getting the the customer to be curious with you kind of leads me into talking about, you know, and, and the customer wanting to embrace and, and embrace cloud computing is really a transformative business model. Also takes cultural impact. Sounds like what you've been able to achieve with this particular success story. The customer had the appetite from a cultural transformation perspective but that's a hard thing to accomplish. Talk a little bit about that maybe from that customer's perspective and how they really were able to transform into a culture that embraces cloud computing. >> Absolutely. You're spot on . With all of these transformations, it's people process technology. Technology's the easy part, right? The cloud's there, we can, the architecture's there, we can build software. It's the people and the process that's hard. So as part of that transformation and part of that engagement, they actually hired me. So I left Amazon and I went and became the VP of technology for this company and I led 650 engineers globally through this transformation from an OnPrem model with microservices in the cloud. So they put faith in me because they knew this was the outcome we needed to get to but they needed the people in the process to change. So bringing the, the engineers on that journey of I know you've been building this way for a really long time and in this place, we're going to bring you into the future and we're all going to do it together. So it's a learning journey because we're all going to learn how to build microservices in the cloud and we're going to do it together and then it opens up their future as well as they continue to grow as engineers. So it's not easy to do, but it takes time. But we were able to do it in that case. >> But you bring up a great point, it's a learning journey. Yeah. And for organizations to have that appetite and that understanding and appreciation, that is as critical as the technology. You talk about, you know, people across technology. The technology is easy, it's really changing the frames of mind at the speed at which they need to change for organizations to be competitive so they can leverage cloud to really help unlock the competitive advantage as as that success story customer that you mentioned. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And building on that innovation, right which innovation is just a, a flywheel of learning. So absolutely. >> It is. Let's shift gears a little bit, but speaking of people and processes, you know, what are some of the challenges that you see from a diversity perspective whether it's thought diversity in tech today? >> Yeah, great question. Tech is an opportunity for a level playing ground because tech is a platform with which you can build things. The important piece of building tech though is we need to make sure that many diversities are represented in the room. So when we're making tech decisions of how we're going to build, what our consumers are going to, how they're going to interact with our technology. Not everyone is one individual person. It's not a monolith out there, you know consuming our technology. So let's make sure we have that diversity in the decision making and building the tech as well as in the user use case and, and working backwards from our end users of our technology. I think one of the most, one of the easiest ways to start to approach, approach that diversity of thought and getting that diversity within your teams is looking at a gender diversity ratio. And, and we've seen historically, whilst we've seen gains in gender diversity and technology over the last few years, it's still not where it needs to be. There's a stat that I read recently in a McKinsey study that only one in four C-suite leaders are women today. And of all of all the entry level jobs from entry level to manager of all, like let's say you take a hundred men only 87 of those are women that are concurrently being promoted. Only 82 are women of color. So it's an opportunity for us to really level the playing field and think about how do we intentionally put people in the room when tech decisions are being made that can make change and build tech for who we, we know is out there to consume and, and are be a part of our tech community. >> Intention you mentioned. That is so critical for organizations really need to be looking at diversity, DEI from a, from an an intentional perspective. It can't just be ad hoc here and there. They really have to have a strategy behind it. And when I see companies, and there are a few that I've worked with that really caught my eye that have done a phenomenal job of that thought diversity, gender diversity, cultural diversity within their leadership even the people that they put on stage to talk to their events, they stand out incredibly well. We also know that there's, you probably have numbers on this, that organizations with women in the C-suite are far more profitable than organizations that don't have that. So the data, we want to talk nerdy tech, the data is there. It's demonstrating what the potentials are the capabilities, the, the opportunities. Yet we're still so far behind and we have so much road to cover. We know the direction we need to go in, we just got to be able to get the teams behind that to get there. >> Absolutely. And data's key. I read a study recently that said if you don't have at least 30% diversity in the room when you're making decisions, you are statistically not going to make the right decision, which is incredible. So the powers and the data. We know better decisions are made. Companies do better when there's diversity in the room of all types. >> Absolutely. And can you imagine the sky's the limit, if organizations are actually able to just start making headway on that percentage number and shifting it towards that diversity. What incredible opportunities and technologies and services and solutions that can be developed and delivered to meet the demanding consumers needs. So much potential there. It's, it's a, it's kind of like a crystal ball. If only we had one, we could actually see what we could actually be. >> Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think thinking about some of the older reasons why maybe women didn't stay in the workforce longer or maybe didn't take a a career in tech, a lot of those were minimized during the pandemic. So we think about the work from home concept, right? Like that's so normal now it's, we're no longer grinding you know, I have to leave early for daycare pickup or whatever the challenges or the perceived challenges there were to women progressing in their careers. A lot of that can be managed now. So there was some good things that have come out of that pandemic time that, you know, it's much more acceptable to be home remote working. I think the balance isn't making sure that we continue our in-person innovation where we can. I find with customers today, bringing executive teams together in a room to have them brainstorm and innovate is still priceless, right? Like we still have to spend that time, we're humans, but as a woman in technology, I love the flexibility that we are now taking and adopting as a norm. And even, you know, some of my male peers that have kids at home, they love being around the kids at home and and it's a, it's a real positive impact I think that we've had amongst a lot of negative impacts by the pandemic as well. >> It is, they're definitely silver linings. That's one of them. I was talking with somebody in, in Italy this morning we were filming and you said, "I don't think my daughters are going to run in here." And I thought, you know what, even if they do that's part of totally the remote workforce, that's part of the hybrid workforce that we're all embracing. But you bring up a great point about the in-person innovation. You know, events are starting to come back, so exciting. There's just certain things about event from an innovation perspective you just can't replicate by video. So getting those executives in a room together. Talk about what you guys are doing there and, and some of the things that you think of over the next few years that will really help drive evolution and innovation of tech. >> Absolutely, yeah. I have a lot of clients that often will say, "Oh well we're we're a remote first company." So it's okay that we do our innovation session online. But then I remind them of when was the last happy hour you had online? Like do you remember the early days of the pandemic? And we all sat on, you know pick your web conferencing platform and we, you know drank wine and but there was only one person that you could hear in that. So when they're, everybody's going around and all the boxes are on the screen, it was difficult to have multiple conversations. If you walk into a happy hour in, in real life people all over the room are having multiple conversations and a lot of different things are happening in the room at the same time. It's the same thing with innovation. If we bring an executive team into the room, guess what? There's going to be a couple sidebar conversations going on as the big room progresses. And that's really healthy and that's a great way to get people that may not be the one, the star of the happy hour that wants to speak the whole time to also get their inputs and their feedback into the innovation process. So that's just an example of why it's so important. One of the things we do here at Amazon is we have so called a digital innovation workshop which is exactly as it sounds, right? Just get in a room with some whiteboards, with some thought leaders and really let's innovate for the future and it's a blank sheet of paper kind of start and out of it we come up with a business plan, a PRFAQ, like a press release I mentioned in my story earlier. That's the seeds of that. So it's really powerful and I'm so excited we're continuing to do those face to face 'cause it's so important. >> It's so important, you know, to have diversity present in the room when decisions are being made, whether it's decisions about technology or not. That thought diversity is, and as the data show that you mentioned, demonstrates how much more successful and profitable organizations can be. I'm going to ask you kind of switching gears again. Last question. If we look kind of down the road from an evolution perspective of of you're in cloud, of your role evolving. What are some of the things that you see down down the pike? >> Yeah, so great question. I am in a field sales organization today, so when the pandemic first hit, I thought, oh boy, that's the end of our career. I think we're not going to be going out and calling on customers face to face anymore. But it's actually been the opposite. I've seen more engagement from our customers. They, they really do want to spend time with us innovating. When we come into those conversations we come in with a curious mindset. So I think from a field sales perspective, it's it's not, you know, going away. And I think it's going to continue to build and it's a great career for women in particular to get into. Super flexible, the privilege of travel which is a nice vacation from home life sometimes. And the, the benefit of working from home as well. So a good balance there. So I think from a, my role specifically it's going to continue to evolve and continue to be a growth area. >> From previous roles I've had where I've worked in technology and, and software development, I think are we're still such at early stages in cloud computing and cloud technology that there is so much technology that we're continuing to build from an engineering standpoint. And I think back to my, you know, 20 year old self if I was in those shoes today and I would absolutely be doing a career in engineering. I think it's such an exciting space and as a person of, of of a, as a female I want to be at the forefront of the engineering team. So I encourage anyone if they're, you know of a diverse background, like you are the people that I want in engineering in the future because that's how you're going to build the future is build the tech, which is really cool. >> So absolutely. It's, it's very cool. I do have one more question for you. What's of your lens, what's next in cloud? What are some of the things that you think are coming down the horizon? >> Yeah, so great question. So I, I actually have a son who's special needs and I think about some of the accommodations that we have to make for him today. And I think about the tech that's coming in terms of personal tech on helping him communicate or helping him read or helping him write. And I'm excited for his future where I think a diagnosis like his, if I'd gotten it many years ago, I would be very fearful about his future. But I know that tech is going to support people like him. So I'm excited for what it's going to do for humanity. I'm excited for what it's going to help us unlock for people that may have been hindered in previous lives. My, my mom grew up with a disability and she had to keep her career relatively low level because she couldn't overcome that disability without tech. And now that she has tech, you know it would've changed the game for her. So I'm excited for my son and his future. That's what inspires me and, and I'm excited about. >> I love that. Well, with a mom like you, he's sure to succeed and fly flying colors. Veronica, it's been such a pleasure having you on the Cube. >> Thank you. >> Exciting special series of women in the cloud. We so appreciate your insights and your time. You'll have to come back. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate it. >> All right, Veronica McCarthy. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube's special program series Women of the Cloud, brought to you by AWS. Thanks for watching. (sparkly music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey everyone, welcome to theCUBE's special program series Women of the Cloud, brought to you by AWS. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. Very pleased to welcome Angie Perez Thomas the area sales leader from AWS as my next guest. Angie, welcome to theCUBE. It's great to have you here. >> I'm super excited. Thank you so much, Lisa. >> Of course. Talk to me a little bit about you a little bit about your role in sales at AWS. >> Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a tenure Amazonian so I've been with AWS for about 10 years here. And as you mentioned, I'm the area sales leader and so my team supports new enterprise customers and executives who are just starting their journey into the cloud. >> Talk a little bit about some of your career paths. Did you have a linear path? You said tenure Amazonian, linear path maybe more Zig-zaggy. I'd love to get some of your recommendations for those who may be early in their tech careers looking to grow their careers. What are some of the experiences that you've had that you think are have shaped your career? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, mine have, I've gone back and forth through different roles, both in leadership and as an IC and I'd probably say I've got three recommendations for those looking to grow their career in technology. So the first one is prioritize your time to actually think about what career experiences you want in in your fullness of your career. And so this actually may look like sitting down reserving time to actually deep think about what are those experiences you're looking to gain but also doing research on other careers of those who may inspire you and kind of collecting those ideas. My second recommendation is around documenting, writing down those career aspirations and actually putting it within and memorializing it within a document. So I've applied Amazon's working backwards methodology myself and applied that on my career and writing my own career press release. And so it's dated in 2029. It's got a headline and you know, it's a physical document of my own career aspirations. And third, I recommend sharing this documentation with others. You know, I really enjoy receiving and reading what others are wanting to do with their career aspirations and helping provide feedback and guidance. And so what we find is people genuinely want to help others. >> I agree. I love your recommendations for really being mindful, being thoughtful about what it is that you want to do doing that research, and then actually documenting it. I think it's so wonderful that you're taking Amazon's working backward approach from the press release going this is where I want to be in five years or in 10 years. And then putting that on paper. I still connect a lot with things like you that you put down on paper that you want to accomplish or something about writing it down that actually helps to you bring it to fruition. And then to your point is great about sharing it with others that can be mentors, that can be sponsors. I'm sure you've had some great mentors and sponsors along your career path that have probably helped you pretty successful. >> Yeah, absolutely. It's been really an effective tool for communicating with those who have helped me navigate as well. >> Talk a little bit about some of the successes now we'll switch gears but we'll continue on the success train. Some of the successes that you've had helping organizations really navigate, migrate to the cloud and and become successful businesses as a result. >> Yeah, no, absolutely. So across my tenure at AWS, you know I've truly enjoyed working with our customer executives and helping them deliver on their business outcomes. And so just recently I met with the COO of a real estate firm here in the Pacific Northwest and the COO has an initiative to identify and modify home titles and deeds with decades old discriminatory language and restrictions. So, although not invisible, due to the Fair Housing Act of 1968, racial covenants they're still present in millions of home titles across the United States today. And so partnering with AWS and using our cloud technology, you know, our teams together were able to build an application that was able to where homeowners are able to look up their titles you know, analyze it for discriminatory language and be able to submit it for modification. And so this, you know, today it can be done manually, but partnering with AWS, our teams were able to address modifying titles and deeds at scale. And so it's truly incredible what cloud computing has enabled just all of us to accomplish together. And so I kind of think of it like this our a catalyst for change is our customers and AWS and our partners is the how to accelerate that change. So it's really this partnership >> I love that accelerating change is so important across so many aspects of life, but the example that you gave is so, it's such an interesting use case. I wouldn't think that there is discriminatory language in deeds for houses, but the fact that it's probably a pervasive problem globally and the ability to help organizations to be able to change that for the better with cloud, with automation at scale is huge. I can imagine that's a use case that can be replicated surely across the states and more. >> Yeah, it's definitely gained interest across with different real estate forms across the United States. So we're really excited to be partnering and having impact on this change. >> And it's also an example of tech for good. I mean, we talk about that all the time but the fact that there's discriminatory language and housing deeds is still kind of blows my mind. But and we've seen so much in tech in terms of diversity and equity and inclusion but from a diversity perspective there's still a lot more to do. I'd love to get your opinion on what you think some of the the present day challenges are with respect to diversity in tech and maybe some of the things you think can be changed to for the better. >> Yeah, so you know, there's been a huge focus on, you know hiring for diverse talent in the tech industry for a number of years. And where I think we as an industry have an opportunity is to improve in investing and developing in this diverse talent and try to really think about how are we building up the skillsets to build today's and tomorrow's leaders. And so when I think about this it requires senior leaders to be really intentional about building a diverse ecosystem of talent and investing in this diverse talent. And let me clarify a little bit when I talk about investing in diverse talent, you know, this expands outside of just mentoring. This includes sponsoring, coaching, really providing opportunities where this talent has the ability to have a seat at the table. Getting into the room where it all happens. And so by doing so we're helping this talent build their skillsets to learn what questions are being asked within, the room? How are others communicating with each other? So that they can build the skillset so not only have a seat at the table but can be really leading with that seat at the table. And I would say last, we as companies we tend to or you know, we in the industry, we tend to just focus on developing those within our companies. And where I see a need is to really challenge the industry to reach outside of our own companies in diverse talent. And so developing just that ecosystem because not just thinking about the roles that are open today but really building the skillsets for the roles and and senior level positions that are going to be open tomorrow and making sure we're developing this talent to raise their hand and be the leading candidate for those opportunities. >> I love how you said kind of really a couple things that you know, with all the women in this program that I've spoken to is a common theme in terms of diversity and it's really about senior leaders making investments. And another thing that you said that's spot on is doing it with intention. There's so much to be gained by having an intention with diversity, thought diversity. To your point, going outside, it sounds to me like kind of let's go outside of our comfort zones to bring in different thoughts, different perspectives be able to grow them in their career because of course technologies and products and solutions can only get better the more diversity of thought we have. >> Yeah, no, absolutely. It's really being intentional. We as senior leaders, we have a law on our plate. And so yes this is an additional thing to be thinking about but it really has impact and change in driving the right things both for our customers and for the industry as well. And so it's an investment that's worth making. >> And speaking of that investment worth making I liked how you said, let's have some forethought about what are some of the roles that are going to be there in the future. How are some of the roles today going to be evolving? How do you see your role evolving in the next few years? How do you see cloud evolving and what excites you about that? >> Yeah, well, cloud has really been helping our customers move faster and adapt to just the ever changing landscape. I mean it's over the last couple years it's been very real for all of us to see. And so my role has moved from just being an advisor to a CIO to actually being an advisor to both the CEO and board of directors and when they come speak to us, cost or cloud is not just about cost savings, it truly is about helping a CEO deliver on their business outcomes. So I'll give an example. We're working with a growing community bank and their executive team has embarked on a transformation to becoming a digital first bank. And so when we think about the economic factors that they're working with them to come to mind. The first, their move towards online banking has it's accelerated with the pandemic really creating that customer experience of which when you think about local banks, you think about community where everybody knows your name over in the brick and mortar down the road. Well they have to bridge that community and trust into the digital world. And second, they needed to improve on operational efficiencies. And so they have to strategically think about what investments they're going to make to balance inflation while driving growth. And so where I've been finding both myself and my teams is having a seat at the table with these executives, helping them make these strategic business decisions. And we know we're successful when our customers are able to deliver on those business outcomes. They meet those objectives, they exceed those objectives. And then we know we've just exceeded customer expectation when our partnership actually shows up in their next earnings call. You know, it's really special. >> Oh, I bet it is. I mean, being able to be that influential in terms of an organization's success I love how you talked about kind of a career evolution that your career has evolved from now you're really with the board of directors having a seat at the table there. My last question for you is kind of on that front Angie is what are some of the changes in in the tech workforce that you've seen the last few years and what are some of the things that you're excited about that are down the road? >> Yeah, so a couple things where I've really seen change and evolution has been in the leadership level. We are needing to lead with empathy and really think about inclusion as a cornerstone skillset. So for our customers, our partners, our employees we've really moved into this hybrid environment. We're both leaders and team norms. We're challenged to change. We have to adapt. And so really having inclusion as that foundational skillset is a requirement for both today and tomorrow's leaders. What I'm really excited about is on the innovation front. Anyone can innovate now, you don't need to be a part of the R&D division of a company. We're seeing that cloud is providing tools all the way down to the elementary student level. So when you think about that, just think the imagination of our youth, brought to life with cloud technology. I mean, the future really is bright. >> It is. That horizon is endless. And I'm going to take some of your advice, Angie I loved that you talked about from your own perspective and your recommendations for the audience. Write that down, write your own press release in terms of what you want to see down the road. I'm going to take your advice, I'm going to do that. I thank you so much for joining me on the program. You've been so inspiring. Your career path has been impressive. What you're seeing in terms of innovation and cloud coming next is incredibly exciting. Thank you so much for your time, Angie. >> Thank you Lisa. >> For Angie Perez Thomas. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's special program series Women of the Cloud, brought to you by AWS. We'll see you soon. (upbeat music)

(bright, upbeat music) >> Hello, brilliant humans and welcome to this special programming on theCUBE featuring Women of the Cloud, brought to you by AWS. My name is Savannah Peterson, and I am very excited to be joined by a brilliant woman both in supply chain as well as digital transformation. Please welcome Jeanette Barlow, VP of Product at Instacart. Jeanette, thank you so much for joining us from Boston today. How you doing? >> Thank you. I'm doing well, thank you. And thank you to the Amazon team for letting me join you. I'm excited to participate in this. I think it's such an important topic to learn all about how as women we're helping shape the future of business, supply chain, consumer experiences. So thank you very much. >> That's fantastic to have you and to be really celebrating women of the cloud properly. To start us off, how long, let's just, let's run with this. How long have you been a woman of the cloud? (Jeanette and Savannah laugh) >> Oh, probably since there, before there was a cloud, actually I have spent my entire career in enterprise technology and I spent nearly 25 years actually with IBM. And, you know, I remember when the internet really took off as far as a highly accessible thing and then the very beginnings of e-commerce where it was really the wild west and it was such a different experience than you get now. And I've been very fortunate throughout that journey to have a variety of roles from sales, marketing, communications. I eventually landed in product management and that's pretty much where I stayed. >> Savannah: At least for now. >> At least for now. >> Sounds like you're very curious. I can tell that you are a very curious person. Since you've been around for what I would consider a, an impressive period of time in an industry, especially when there were not a ton of women to reference or receive mentorship from, what was the initial catalyst or spark or inspiration for you to pursue a career in technology? >> I'll be really honest, getting out of college with college debt, money. (Savannah laughs) The best salary, I'm not going to sugarcoat that but once I landed there, it just was so amazing how technological advance advances were fundamentally changing the way businesses would work or how humans could get things done. And that whole, my whole career trajectory has been very much working at the forefront of new areas whether that be collaboration, software or supply chain which is, obviously we're all well aware, such a deep and important area and even low-code workflow automation before I came to Instacart. >> I love the transparency there. It's a indicator of a great leader and that level of authenticity. Were there any hurdles that you felt you had to overcome in the beginning or was the curiosity enough to power through the initial first few years that are always tough for anyone, no matter their gender or career? >> I think I was a very fortunate person. I do want to say that, sure, there are a lot of long hours and I often felt that I had to be more prepared, maybe than some of my colleagues that were men back, way back in the day. But I had the very good fortune of working for companies throughout my history that really believed in an equitable and respectful workplace. And I had wonderful mentors, both women and men, along the way who really were there to help develop talent. So I never felt that I had sort of a glass ceiling. I definitely felt that I had to to sit there and assert a point of view, at times. >> Savannah: Mm-Hm. >> But, I've seen this whole industry and space change and it's not just gender, but also racial backgrounds educational backgrounds, that neurodiversity I'm now seeing much greater respect for listening to that chorus of voices because we do get better, much better outcomes that way. >> Absolutely. I couldn't agree more and I'm happy to hear that you've been supported along your journey. I think the industry can definitely get a bad rap and there are a lot of people paving the way for us. I want to talk a little bit about supply chain because I don't know about you, but for me I don't think there were as many people talking about the industry and probably what you do, say four years ago, as are now. How did you find your way into supply chain and what is it about helping that be more efficient that excites you? >> Yes. There's nothing like a shortage of toilet paper to get people to. (Savannah laughs) Or to understand what supply chain means. And I, as tough as those times were, especially at the beginning of the pandemic and the uncertainty, it was so exciting for those of us in supply chain because suddenly people got what we did like- >> Savannah: Mm-Hm. >> And they were interested in hearing about it. So I really, I really have, we did enjoy that. I got exposed to that because ultimately I served as the Vice President of Product Management and Strategy for IBM, Sterling Supply Chain which was a very large brand within the IBM portfolio, serving over 10,000 clients worldwide, really focused on their omnichannel order management and their other supply chain processes around order to cash, procure to pay, logistics and things like that. And when you start to learn about the intricacies and that choreography needed across so many players in the value chain, it's an absolutely fascinating puzzle. And- >> Savannah: Yeah. >> Often the further away from the consumer experience you got, the more analog it became. And so the opportunity to start to digitize and transform that was really something that was very, very intriguing. And now here at Instacart, the opportunity to sort of parlay that into one of probably the most complex supply chains that there are, grocery, food just adds another level- >> Yeah. >> Of excitement intrigue to the work. >> I can only imagine there are, I'm just thinking about it right now. I'm not sure there are many supply chains, if any that touch as many lives as food does, as, I mean so is that what brought you, you joined Instacart relatively recently if I'm not mistaken, within the last year. Is that what brought you to them? Was the complexity of that global challenge? >> Absolutely. That was definitely the start of it, was so intriguing to me to see, to, the more I learned about Instacart when they approached me was also they're really changing an industry that's been very static for many, many years, right? And they're fundamentally reshaping that industry. One that's, as you said, is crucial to the everyday lives of pretty much everyone. And I was intrigued by that. But I was also intrigued by the breadth at which they're approaching this, not just the marketplace, but how we are helping retailers through our Instacart platform actually reach their consumers in ways that they like to shop whether it's online or in the store. We are also very, very committed to not just serving from a convenience standpoint, but actually improving access to healthy and nutritious food for as many people as might need that. So it just, core to the complexity of the problem the criticality of it, but also just frankly speaking to the core of who Instacart is as a company, I, it just felt like it was like a culmination of a lot of things to have this opportunity to work here. >> Sounds like a fantastic opportunity. I want to dive a little bit deeper into the technology side there. How is Instacart's technology helping grocers with varying levels of scale and geographical challenges and I'm sure a variety of other things and even a digital skillset. How are you helping them navigate their digital transformation? >> You know, this is probably one of the sectors that lags behind other retail sectors as far as digital transformation. And when the progress that's been made over the last four years is tremendous. And the road ahead is still before us is still a long way to go. I mean Instacart built the world's largest grocery marketplace, if you want to think about that. And so we have more than 10 years of experience in understanding the complexity of that. With, again a supply chain that is very, very complex. So last spring we announced the Instacart platform as a way of really putting a name to a lot of work we were already doing. And it's all about opening up the capability and the technology that we have to help grocers reach their customers directly as well as through our marketplace. So we help grocers like Publix, Wegmans, The Fresh Market just hundreds of grocers build out their own storefronts, their own mobile apps and that we are actually powering for them. We help them create some very unique fulfillment models that might serve customers or be new market opportunities. Certainly we have the traditional full service shop, but we also have virtual convenience that can enable delivery in minutes. And in certain geographies and demographics, that's, you know, really important. We are even going in the store with our connected stores technologies that we announced earlier this year, and that is everything from smart cards to scan and pay to wayfinding that it just, it's a lot of very interesting work we're doing and we're very, very fortunate to be able to partner with some of the best and brightest grocery retailers out there as well as retailers and other verticals as well. But grocery store is sort of our core. >> Yeah, I can only imagine some of the conversations that you have and the user behaviors that you get to learn about as people are on their food journey. You teased a little bit there about what's coming next. What else do you think is in our food future? >> Well, I think, you know, the pandemic pushed the grocery industry to get online to start to digitally transform itself, but we believe it's not an either or. There are virtually no one that's exclusively online and we know more and more there's no one that's exclusively you know, only in the store. We really expect to have that blend and I think as long as we're very, very savvy about understanding the, our retailers' needs as well as their customers' needs on how they can really traverse seamlessly between whether they're online or in store, how they can have an engaging experience that's consistent to the brand of the retailer. >> Savannah: Mm-Hm. >> How they can be rewarded for their loyalty. How they can be encouraged to try new things and just have a much more engaging experience with that grocer because food is a very emotional sort of buy, right? I mean, it's a very sensory rich. And so how- >> Sort of? I think you can go ahead and just make that claim. Just for a lot of people, yeah, yeah. We'll endorse that. >> You're right, yeah, it is. Right, we're passionate about our brand of this or that or we want to touch or smell or do things like that. So there's a tremendous amount of innovation you get online, like personalization and other things that you don't get when you get, you walk into the store, everybody's got the same end cap like I see the same end cap as you see and we might be very different. And then vice versa. I get a very much a sensory experience when I'm in the store, right? That I don't have, how do we blend that? And so there's some really interesting things that we're working on with our retail partners to embrace that omnichannel approach. So we create that flywheel of experience and innovation between the two. So I think you're going to see a lot more focus on an omnichannel experience that traverses between the on and the in, online and the in-store. >> Yeah, I, so I love this because you know, we, there's a continued debate around remote and in-person, working remote and in-person events, but it sounds like hybrid is here to stay when it comes to food and and how we eat, which is very exciting. Last question for you, Jeanette. What would you say to someone, a woman of any age who is looking at this video or maybe dreaming about a career in cloud technology? What's your moment of inspiration? >> You know, I think my best advice is all, you know, stay curious. Just be in love with not even just the technology for technology's sake, but what the technology can unlock as far as an experience and focus on building those experiences. Not only for your direct customer in my case, retailers, grocers, but for their customer. Trying to understand that. And I think if you can connect those dots, you know the cloud is the limit, let's put it that way. (Jeanette and Savannah laugh) >> I'll take it upon that. I love that. Jeanette Barlow, thank you so much for joining us. The team at Instacart is lucky to have you. And thank you to our audience for joining us for this special program on theCUBE featuring Women of the Cloud. My name is Savannah Peterson and I look forward to celebrating more brilliant women like Jeanette with you all soon. (upbeat, happy music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey everyone. Welcome to theCUBE's special program series "Women of the Cloud", brought to you by AWS. I'm your host for the program, Lisa Martin. Very pleased to welcome back one of our alumni to this special series, Dr. Tendu Yogurtcu joins us, the CTO of Precisely. >> Lisa: Tendu, it's great to see you, it's been a while, but I'm glad that you're doing so well. >> Geez, it's so great seeing you too, and thank you for having me. >> My pleasure. I want the audience to understand a little bit about you. Talk to me a little bit about you, about your role and what are some of the great things that you're doing at Precisely. >> Of course. As CTO, my current role is driving technology vision and innovation, and also coming up with expansion strategies for Precisely's future growth. Precisely is the leader in data integrity. We deliver data with trust, with maximum accuracy, consistency, and also with context. And as a CTO, keeping an eye on what's coming in the business space, what's coming up with the emerging challenges is really key for me. Prior to becoming CTO, I was General Manager for the Syncsort big data business. And previously I had several engineering and R&D leadership roles. I also have a bit of academia experience. I served as a part-time faculty in computer science department in a university. And I am a person who is very tuned to giving back to my community. So I'm currently serving as a advisory board member in the same university. And I'm also serving as a advisory board member for a venture capital firm. And I take pride in being a dedicated advocate for STEM education and STEM education for women in particular, and girls in the underserved areas. >> You have such a great background. The breadth of your background, the experience that you have in the industry as well in academia is so impressive. I've known you a long time. I'd love the audience to get some recommendations from you. For those of the audience looking to grow and expand their careers in technology, what are some of the things that you that you've experienced that you would recommend people do? >> First, stay current. What is emerging today is going to be current very quickly. Especially now we are seeing more change and change at the increased speed than ever. So keeping an eye on on what's happening in the market if you want to be marketable. Now, some of the things that I will say, we have shortage of skills with data science, data engineering with security cyber security with cloud, right? We are here talking about cloud in particular. So there is a shortage of skills in the emerging technologies, AI, ML, there's a shortage of skills also in the retiring technologies. So we are in this like spectrum of skills shortage. So stay tuned to what's coming up. That's one. And on the second piece is that the quicker you tie what you are doing to the goals of the business, whether that's revenue growth whether that's customer retention or cost optimization you are more likely to grow in your career. You have to be able to articulate what you are doing and how that brings value to business to your boss, to your customers. So that becomes an important one. And then third one is giving back. Do something for the women in technology while being a woman in technology. Give back to your community whether that's community is gender based or whether it's your alumni, whether it's your community social community in your neighborhood or in your country or ethnicity. Give back to your community. I think that's becoming really important. >> I think so too. I think that paying it forward is so critical. I'm sure that you have a a long list of mentors and sponsors that have guided you along the way. Giving back to the community paying it forward I think is so important. For others who might be a few years behind us or even maybe have been in tech for the same amount of time that are looking to grow and expand their career having those mentors and sponsors of women who've been through the trenches is inspiring. It's so helpful. And it really is something that we need to do from a diversity perspective alone, right? >> Correct. Correct. And we have seen that, we have seen, for example Covid impact in women in particular. Diverse studies done by girls who quote on Accenture that showed that actually 50% of the women above age 35 were actually dropping out of the technology. And those numbers are scary. However, on the other side we have also seen incredible amount of technology innovation during that time with cloud adoption increasing with the ability to actually work remotely if you are even living in not so secure areas, for example that created more opportunities for women to come back to workforce as well. So we can turn the challenges to opportunities and watch out for those. I would say tipping points. >> I love that you bring up such a great point. There are so, so the, the data doesn't lie, right? The data shows that there's a significant amount of churn for women in technology. But to your point, there are so many opportunities. You mentioned a minute ago the skills gap. One of the things we talk about often on theCUBE and we're talking about cybersecurity which is obviously it's a global risk for companies in every industry, is that there's massive opportunity for people of, of any type to be able to grow their skills. So knowing that there's trend, but there's also so much opportunity for women in technology to climb the ladder is kind of exciting. I think. >> It is. It is exciting. >> Talk to me a little bit about, I would love for the audience to understand some of your hands-on examples where you've really been successful helping organizations navigate digital transformation and their entry and success with cloud computing. What are some of those success stories that you're really proud of? >> Let me think about, first of all what we are seeing is with the digital transformation in general, every single business every single vertical is becoming a technology company. Telecom companies are becoming a technology company. Financial services are becoming a technology company and manufacturing is becoming a technology company. So every business is becoming technology driven. And data is the key. Data is the enabler for every single business. So when we think about the challenges, one of the examples that I give a big challenge for our customers is I can't find the critical data, I can't access it. What are my critical data elements? Because I have so high volumes growing exponentially. What are the critical data elements that I should care and how do I access that? And we work at Precisely with 99 of Fortune 100. So we have two 12,000 customers in over a hundred countries which means we have customers whose businesses are purely built on cloud, clean slate. We also have businesses who have very complex set of data platforms. They have financial services, insurance, for example. They have critical transactional workloads still running on mainframes, IBM i servers, SAP systems. So one of the challenges that we have, and I work with key customers, is on how do we make data accessible for advanced analytics in the cloud? Cloud opens up a ton of open source tools, AI, ML stack lots of tools that actually the companies can leverage for that analytics in addition to elasticity in addition to easy to set up infrastructure. So how do we make sure the data can be actually available from these transactional systems, from mainframes at the speed that the business requires. So it's not just accessing data at the speed the business requires. One of our insurance customers they actually created this data marketplace on Amazon Cloud. And the, their challenge was to make sure they can bring the fresh data on a nightly basis initially and which became actually half an hour, every half an hour. So the speed of the business requirements have changed over time. We work with them very closely and also with the Amazon teams on enabling bringing data and workloads from the mainframes and executing in the cloud. So that's one example. Another big challenge that we see is, can I trust my data? And data integrity is more critical than ever. The quality of data, actually, according to HBR Harvard Business Review survey, 47% of every new record of data has at least one critical data error, 47%. So imagine, I was talking with the manufacturing organization couple of weeks ago and they were giving me an example. They have these three letter quotes for parts and different chemicals they use in the manufacturing. And the single letter error calls a shutdown of the whole manufacturing line. >> Wow. >> So that kind of challenge, how do I ensure that I can actually have completeness of data cleanness of data and consistency in that data? Moreover, govern that on a continuous basis becomes one of the use cases that we help customers. And in that particular case actually we help them put a data governance framework and data quality in their manufacturing line. It's becoming also a critical for, for example ESG, environment, social and governance, supply chain, monitoring the supply chain, and assessing ESG metrics. We see that again. And then the third one, last one. I will give an example because I think it's important. Hybrid cloud becoming critical. Because there's a purest view for new companies. However, facilitating flexible deployment models and facilitating cloud and hybrid cloud is also where we really we can help our customers. >> You brought up some amazingly critical points where it comes to data. You talked about, you know, a minute ago, every company in every industry has to become a technology company. You could also say every company across every industry has to become a data company. They have to become a software company. But to your point, and what it sounds like precisely is really helping organizations to do is access the data access data that has high integrity data that is free of errors. Obviously that's business critical. You talked about the high percentage of errors that caused manufacturing shutdown. Businesses can't, can't have that. That could potentially be life-ending for an organization. So it sounds like what you're talking about data accessibility, data integrity data governance and having that all in real time is table stakes for businesses. Whether it's your grocery store, your local coffee shop a manufacturing company, and e-commerce company. It's table stakes globally these days. >> It is, and you made a very good point actually, Lisa when you talked about the local coffee shop or the retail. One other interesting statistic is that almost 80% of every data has a location attribute. So when we talk about data integrity we no longer talk about just, and consistency of data. We also talk about context, right? When you are going, for example, to a new town you are probably getting some reminders about where your favorite coffee shop is or what telecom company has an office in that particular town. Or if you're an insurance company and a hurricane is hitting southern Florida. Then you want to know how the path of that hurricane is going to impact your customers and predict the claims before they happen. Also understand the propensity of the potential customers that you don't yet have. So location and context, those additional attributes of demographics, visitations are creating actually more confident business insights. >> Absolutely. And and as the consumer we're becoming more and more demanding. We want to be able to transact things so easily whether it's in our personal life at the grocery store, at that cafe, or in our business life. So those demands from the customer are also really influencing the direction that companies need to go. And it's actually, I think it's quite exciting that the amount of personalization the location data that you talk about that comes in there and really helps companies in every industry deliver these the cloud can, these amazing, unique personalized experiences that really drive business forward. We could talk about that all day long. I have no problem. But I want to get in our final minutes here, Tendu. What do you see as in your crystal ball as next for the cloud? How do you see your role as CTO evolving? >> Sure. For what we are seeing in the cloud I think we will start seeing more and more focus on sustainability. Sustainable technologies and governance. Obviously cloud migrations cloud modernizations are helping with that. And we, we are seeing many of our customers they started actually assessing the ESG supply chain and reporting on metrics whether it's the percentage of face or energy consumption. Also on the social metrics on diversity age distribution and as well as compliance piece. So sustainability governance I think that will become one area. Second, security, we talked about IT security and data privacy. I think we will see more and more investments around those. Cybersecurity in particular. And ethical data access and ethics is becoming center to everything we are doing as we have those personalized experiences and have more opportunities in the cloud. And the third one is continued automation with AI, ML and more focus on automation because cloud enables that at scale. And the work that we need to do is too time-intensive and too manual with the amount of data. Data is powering every business. So automation is going to be an increased focus how my role evolves with that. So I have this unique combination. I have been open to non-linear career paths throughout my growth. So I have an understanding of how to innovate and build products that solve real business problems. I also have an understanding of how to sell them build partnerships that combined with the the scale of growth, the hyper growth that we have absorbed in precisely 10 times growth within the last 10 years through a combination of organic innovation and acquisitions really requires the speed of change. So change, implementing change at scale as well as at speed. So taking those and bringing them to the next challenge is the evolution of my role. How do I bring those and tackle keep an eye on what's coming as a challenge in the industry and how they apply those skills that I have developed throughout my career to that next challenge and evolve with it, bring the innovation to data to cloud and the next challenge that we are going to see. >> There's so much on the horizon. It's, there are certainly challenges, you know within technology, but there's so much opportunity. You've done such a great job highlighting your career path the, the big impact that you're helping organizations make leveraging cloud and the opportunity that's there for the rest of us to really get in there get our hands dirty and solve problems. Tendu, I always love our conversations. It's been such a pleasure having you back, back on theCUBE. Thank you for joining us on this special program series today. >> Thank you Lisa. And also thanks to AWS for the opportunity. >> Absolutely. This is brought, brought to us by AWS. For Dr.Tendu, you are good to go. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE special program series Women of the Cloud. We thank you so much for watching and we'll see you soon. (upbeat music)

(bright music plays) >> Welcome to theCUBE's Special Program Series: Women of the Cloud, brought to you by AWS. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. Very pleased to welcome our next guest, Sherry Karamdashti, sales director at AWS Startups. Sherry, welcome to the program. It's great to have you today. >> Thanks for having me, Lisa. >> Tell me a little bit about you, a little bit about your role at AWS Startups. >> Great. Yes, um, I run the startup sales in the US uh, for AWS. I've joined AWS really early in the cloud journey, um, that was in 2013, so I'm almost 10 years there, all in sales leadership. So I've been able to work with really amazing customers, mostly, you know, startups in the beginning cause those were our predominantly original customers. And now obviously going to, the business has grown to, you know, other enterprises and, and really have seen some great things in my 10 year journey. >> Lisa: So you're almost a 10 year Amazonian. Congratulations on your impending anniversary. Talk to me a little bit about your career path. Did you always know you wanted to be in tech? Did you get into tech from a different field? What does that look like? >> Yeah, yes. I was always interested in technology. I was a electrical engineer in my undergrad and I pretty much quickly realized I didn't want to write code or, you know, design integrated circuits. There really wasn't an internet back then. I think the engineering students had emails but we emailed each other, nobody else had them. And I just got into a program actually at Intel and it was a technical sales program and so they recruited folks, engineering students, put us through some rotations and various um, reps. And then we rolled out to the field and I became a sales, technical sales person. >> Got it. So you were a EE from the start, kind of always knew you wanted to be in tech but then now as a sales leader, talk to me a little bit about that path and what are some of your recommendations for people that might be starting out in tech or interested and don't really know how to navigate their career? >> Yeah, I think, you know, I think for me I was a little bit of luck and timing and you know, some intelligence of picking the right path. And I think really just around your skill sets, right? And I had a technical background, I was a people person. Relationships and connections were something that were important to me. And really just figuring out kind of how to match your skill sets to what you, what you actually enjoy doing. You know, again, I wasn't looking for a career in sales leadership but it was definitely something I quickly embraced. You know, I enjoy developing people, working with our customers to help them solve their challenges and various technology companies I've worked for. And as far as navigating, I think having, I always tell people, do the best job you can in your current role and be looking at what you want next. Because I have a lot of people that come to me and say, I want to do this next. And I'm like, well, you have to really be doing excellent in what you're doing today, so that you get to have supporters and allies to help sponsor you in other, other things. >> Absolutely. Mentors and sponsors are so critical. Often when I ask people this question, they talk about things like, raise your hand, ask a question. Let me pay attention to your point about the things that you're interested in and start navigating a pathway that way. But also the importance of having mentors, having sponsors who you can share your ideas with, share your dreams with is also something that I think is quite helpful for those that are navigating maybe early in their tech careers or maybe they're midway through and there's a change they want to make but they just aren't aware of what else is out there. >> Sherry: Yep, absolutely. And I think I've been really lucky to have some great allies and mentors along the way. >> So you've had some great successes. I want to now kind of pivot to understanding some of the successes that you've had, where you've helped customers internally, externally solve problems where it's related to cloud. >> Yeah, I mean, yeah, so, you know, for 10 years I've been doing that, you know, early in my career, like I thought it was, most of our customers were startups and it was really a great place to be because AWS at the time, very early helped democratize access to the cloud, right? And so there were these startups who didn't have a lot of capital or people. And so it helped bring that flexibility and agility to startups that maybe, you know, most enterprises have the resources to do. And you know, and I, throughout my career, I've worked with really interesting companies. Right now I've just met with the CEO, Jill Stelfox at Panzura who really outlined, you know, why AWS is great and what, what it's helped, how it had helped them achieve things. And it's really, her thing is that AWS is really helps them build and deploy at scale so that they're able to reach their customer, you know, more broadly. And it really helps them with the backend functions like deploying products, you know, maintaining that security and these user controls that become part of the AWS solutions, so they don't have to worry about it. You know, I've had interesting startups that are embracing machine learning in various ways, right? They, I had an autonomous vehicle startup that uses the advanced driving, the assisted driving system to predict and, you know, whether it's, you know, changing lanes or helping, you know, automate those things and they want to make sure that they provide reliability to their car manufacturers. And there's many, many others, you know, in the healthcare industry that we've helped bring really, ultimately helping them deploy and so that they can innovate and bring market, bring products to market faster. >> That's what it's all about. Innovation, being able to bring products to market faster, being able to pivot quickly when change happens. I literally just today saw that interview that Jill did from Panzura on AWS and the relationship there. I've got a number of friends who've just starting their, their new jobs at Panzura. So it's so great to see just the tech ecosystem being so intertwined and interconnected. I love that so much. I want to understand now from your perspective, switching gears a bit, talking about diversity thought diversity, diversity of people, what, you know, we talk about this Sherry, so often intact DE&I is, it's a very prominent topic of conversation but there's still some challenges there. Talk to me about some of the things that you've seen with respect to diversity that are still challenges present and what are some of your recommendations for organizations to employ to get some of those challenges scraped out of the way? >> Yeah, I mean, I was an engineer and you know, (laughs) in the early nineties, engineering student in the early nineties. So I was the one of 10 females in my, in my, in my school, in my degree area. So, you know, being underrepresented was nothing new. And I wish that we weren't here talking about that, right? It's like, it doesn't matter if I'm a female tech leader, I'm just a tech leader, but we're not quite there yet, right? And, and I think maybe in the next generation can have that luxury and that we have to do that, you know, make that investment and effort today, so that we are helping the path. Now I tell people, you know, you have to, it takes time, right? You can't just go and say, "I'm going to hire a tech sales leader", right? And I started very early and developed my career there. So you have to invest and give yourself time to help develop, you know, underrepresented folks. And ultimately, I think you have to be intentional and you have to, you know, focus on, you know, maybe looking or having different criteria that maybe you haven't typically had, to bring that diverse perspective. Because if you're always looking for the same thing, that's what you'll get. And so I encourage my leaders at their hiring and recruiting to really, you know, look at one developing the pipeline of candidates, right? To bring on board, but also be open to, you know, the profile or the skill sets and things that they're looking for. >> You hit on three things there, Sherry, in all the interviews for this series that I've done, I'm hearing consistently where it comes to diversity, it's the investment that organizations need to make. It's the intention that organizations and leaders need to have and finding that talent. And it's the, the ability to be open-minded to looking for different thoughts, different skills, maybe going outside of the comfort zone to bring in diverse perspectives. So I love what you just said. It very much aligns with all the female leaders that we've been talking to in terms of this is what's needed next to make diversity, to actually bring diversity to life throughout organizations and not just have it as a talking point on an agenda. >> Yep, absolutely. And yeah, and honestly like I, my team is, I take pride in having a very diverse team. I have a very gender diverse team, and I would say it was intentional, but sometimes it's not. (laughs) So. >> Lisa: No, that's true. >> Right? And sometimes it's, you know, people gravitate towards, you know, female leaders, so they want to come work for me but also really it's just we have to create an environment where different people want to come in and feel like they can, you know, have a voice and contribute and grow, you know, in their career. >> Absolutely. People need to see what they can be, be able to feel that I'm going to be included in this conversation. I can raise my hand, I can ask a question. That's not a stupid question, it's probably a question that many other people in the room or on, on the virtual meeting have as well. So that, that ability to bring that diversity and that inclusion into roles whether it's we're talking about AI, machine learning, cloud is so important and it really will impact the direction that we go in. And so, for example, impact the direction that cloud goes in, in terms of how cloud's going to evolve, how your role is going to evolve. What are some of the things that you see there in terms of the next steps in cloud and in your role? >> Yeah, I think really, you know, in my role in dealing with various customers, I think succeeding with data in today's world really requires taking an end to end view. For organization today, people are drowning in their data and don't how to make, use it to make decisions. And we are, we are seeing an intersection of data and machine learning and analytics and databases. So I think we, um, all have to get, uh, smart about it and, you know, help our customers, you know, work their way through this journey. >> It is a journey and you know, every company these days has to be a data company. They've got to be a tech company, they have to be a software company, however you want to describe it but data is gold to an organization and I always think it's whether it's my grocery store or a retailer or a manufacturer or an automotive company, they have to be able to glean insights from data as quickly as possible to make business decisions that push their businesses forward. So that's one of the things that I love is that every company these days has to be a data company but they have to have the right tools, the right people, the right processes in place to be able to extract that value so that they can jump ahead of their competition. >> Exactly. And it's a competitive need. So I think that's, that's our job, that's our next, next big role is to help our, help our customers, you know, align that journey. >> Absolutely and be successful. Last question for you is if you look back over the last three to five years, what are some of the biggest changes in tech, in the tech workforce that you've seen and in innovation and what excites you about the direction that we're going in? >> Yeah, you know, I meet with startup founders and you know, you read their backgrounds or you get to know them and, you know, there were some engineering student at, you know, X, Y, Z and I was like, what if I were an engineer like five years ago? What could I have accomplished, right? So I am seeing this evolution of, you know, things or problems that are, smart people are solving whether it's machine learning like you said, whether it's biosciences. And so, you know, I'm really seeing things coming out of universities, like research things that are really coming to light and solving real world problems. So, so that's a big trend, right? When I, when I was a, you know, when I, in the, you know, years ago, I know you couldn't do much with, you know, satellite or telecommunications like you can with some of the topics that are coming out of school now. I'm also seeing investment in early talent. So, you know, companies that, you know, like you said, you, you know, you're finding really great experienced smart people. So you know, AWS, you know, on the sales and solution architect team, you know, we are investing in early, early talent, in early career talent. So, you know, and they're accomplishing great things. So I'm seeing companies like AWS embrace that a lot more. >> I love that, investing early in talent is so going to be so beneficial to companies in every industry. I'm excited, as are you, to see what happens in the future with that so much potential. So much potential. Sherry, thank you so much for joining me on the program today, talking about what your role is, what you're doing, how you've been helping organizations succeed with cloud, what you see coming down the road and your recommendations for organizations to be more diverse. We so appreciate your time and your insights. >> It was my pleasure. Thank you. >> Excellent. For Sherry Karamdashti, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's Special Program Series: Women of the Cloud, brought to you by AWS. Thanks for watching. (soft music plays)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to this special program series by theCUBE, "Women of the Cloud", brought to you by AWS. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. Very pleased to welcome my next guest, Tia Dubuisson, president, co-founder of Belle Fleur Technologies. Tia, welcome to the program. It's great to have you. >> Thank you so much, Lisa. I'm very happy to be here, thank you. >> Tell me a little bit about you, a little bit about Belle Fleur Technologies and your current role. >> Yeah, so myself, a little bit about me. I'm actually a former microbiologist, so we'll talk a little bit more about that and my journey into tech and shifting over into helping others, right? Belle Fleur technologies was birthed basically after I got a wake up call in the lab and saw that data was really going to be driving a lot of decision making, you know, in not so near future, which we're seeing now, and that was probably a good 11 years ago and you're seeing almost data driven everything or at least conversations about that now. So I have to say that was a good shift. And how we help customers, we're a consulting partner, and so helping them to make a journey that maybe I made on maybe more of an individual level to shift into you know, what does that look like? You have data but gaining the value out of it to actually make, you know, decisions. And so helping our customers to actually do the assessment around the type of data that they have taking them through a process all the way through to insights that they could then look at how can we monetize that is where we actually play and that is our specialty. >> Okay, my heart skipped a beat when you said you were a microbiologist because that's what I studied in undergrad. Oh my gosh, isn't that crazy? That's what we have in common. >> I'm super excited about that, yes. >> Yes, and I got segued into tech as well so we could chat for hours about that I'm sure of it. But, you know, you bring up such a great point, especially science being so data driven. Every industry is data driven. Every company has to be a data company and to help organizations really understand where their data is it's growing obviously continuously, exponentiation how to extract value from it is where a lot of organizations really struggle. So it sounds like that Belle Fleur comes in and really helps organizations to tackle that challenge so that they can extract value from the data that will give them that competitive advantage that they're looking for. >> Absolutely, absolutely, Lisa. >> So talk to me a little bit about your career path was zig-zaggy which I love, so is mine. What are some recommendations that you would have for others watching this program that are really looking to step that ladder in tech from a career perspective? >> Well, I think, you know if I pull from my own individual experience, I would definitely say when you have that aha moment, try to investigate a little bit more about that. I was blessed in the sense that I was married to a computer scientist, so I was able to go home and kind of tell him, hey, I just saw a demonstration that blew me away. We were doing drug discovery work, and we were going to be able to use a computer program to basically help us to narrow the focus of our drug discovery work to see which drugs would be most active before we even synthesized them. And so that was going to save us a lot of money, a lot of time. Drug discovery work is a guessing game, itty house. So if a computer can actually make a million different compounds in a month, I knew that was way more than me and the whole team could make at the bench and then order them by activity. So I came home and I told him that and he said, oh, in 10 years everything will be data driven, no doubt. And we started to have these conversations. And so then I started to then investigate a little more. I started taking courses, dusting off my Python, my R trying to see, you know, where else is data, you know, king. And basically it was everywhere. I wasn't seeing a lot of people at that time really using their data. There was really dark data still, right? They were collecting it but not really using it. And so I said, I think this is something I can help companies do. And I was really excited to really learn more about that. So I started to go learn, pick up certification. So then I'm starting to reinvest in myself. I would really highly advise you once you find that this is part of your passion. You know, find a mentor. I was, thankfully I was already married to a mentor, but there are other mentors and he wasn't my only mentor. There were others, right, to help you along this journey 'cause no one person rules, I think rules at all, right? When you're trying to make this journey and try to make this shift because it is complex, and so you want to make sure you have your tribe, right? That's going to get you there and you want to make sure that you can contribute to the tribe. So I always tried to find ways that I could actually contribute to different projects, right? Even if they're open, you know, projects, hackathons go to boot camps, a lot of them are free, some of them not so free but pretty close. And I think it's, you know, kind of lowers that bar to access where you can kind of take a little peek and you can even go to some that are, you know, driven from an area that you're interested in. If you're interested in healthcare, do a hack for good around healthcare. You know, try to get involved. You'll meet a lot of good people that I think will be very happy to help steward you along the way as you try to navigate these waters, 'cause there is no straight path, right? There is no A plus B gets you to C. You really kind of have to navigate those waters. But I would definitely say get the exposure, make a decision around your passion, meet, you know, nice people at boot camps, you know, workshops, hackathons and then go for some of those industry certifications. Do an do an online search, you know and find out what are the top 10 certifications that would help to support a role that you're looking for, right, in the area that you're passionate about. And then invest in yourself, study for it go for those things, make plans, right? And bounce those off of your mentor. I think they'll be very impressed that you laid out plans and you're actually meeting those goals. They'll be more inclined to actually invest back in you, as well. >> Absolutely, and I love how you said invest in yourself. You laid out some really great tactical recommendations and guidelines. There's very few paths do I come across in tech that have been linear. Most of them have been like yours and mine very zig-zaggy. But the most important thing is investing in yourself. And sometimes I'll hear people say things like create personal board of directors and that kind of reminded me of some of the things that you said, to have those mentors, have those sponsors. To your point, after you invest in you and have those folks invest in you as well. That's great advice, Tia. >> Awesome, thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely, we have to invest in each other. I think that that's the better together story here, right? >> I do too, it's got to be symbiotic. I'll bring up a a biology word for you, symbiotic. (laughs) >> (laughing) Yes, symbiotic. >> Yes, let's talk a little bit now about some of the specific projects where you've helped either internal customers or external customers solve problems related to cloud. >> Yeah, so I would say from an internal customer standpoint, that's what we call our employees, our our BFFs, right, our Belle Fleur friends. We want to make sure that we're investing in them just as much as we do our external customers. If you have happy internal customers, you're definitely without a shadow of a doubt going to be able to solution and really have happy external customers. So you got, you know, everything starts at home first, right? So far as you know, success stories, I would say from the internal customers is really looking at how to upscale and reskill not just junior talent but senior talent. Probably over the last two and a half years, we've been working very closely with a couple of non-profits, community colleges that now have cloud computing certificates that you can get, and also bachelor's degrees, and actually creating a talent pipeline, a playbook for a talent pipeline, to reskill and upskill, to make sure that people have the skill sets that are in market today. We were seeing that there was a gap between classroom and industry as we were trying to hire. And so we wanted to be a part of the narrative not just point out the problem. But how can we really dig in there? And so, it's been tested, tried and true this playbook over 300 different interns, as well as apprentices. So we're super excited to actually have a playbook that, you know, we're able to pull from that we're now sharing with our external customers. They are also struggling with the talent pipeline. They said, hey, you come and you build these solutions so, you know, internally we need to be reskilled and we need to be skilled up and how can we work alongside you and your team not just to build out the solution but for the longer term? How can we actually build out a bench that's healthy, right? That can keep up with the pace, right? That cutting edge pace of innovation and get right in there. And so it's been really great to work with a good majority of our customers are very quite interested in the how. They maybe don't have that playbook internally or that process internally, which tends to be a challenge. So I would say, so far as cloud computing, in addition to just solving, you know, technical problems that is something in parallel that you equally have to give a lot of respect to, right? >> Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of the talent pipeline, I want to get your thoughts on where we are with respect to diversity. We talk about DEI a lot in technology but there's still challenges there. What are some of those challenges that you see and how can organizations really correct those challenges to build a diverse talent pipeline? >> That's a great question. I would say the challenges, I would call 'em the three A's, access, acceleration, and acceptance. And I think what we found with just doing this journey in the last two and a half years really documenting what are those challenges and how can we, you know, iterate to kind of just get past those challenges and just blow right through the doors and say, hey, there's ways that we can introduce access. And so joining forces, like we said with those nonprofits and those community colleges that are already, I think we all have different pieces of the puzzle, and I think we're all trying to give different pieces of access, but how do we draw a thread through it? And I think that's what our playbook attempts to do. I mean because when we say in tech that is so vast and so even within tech we say, okay, within tech these are the areas where we play, right? We have a playbook around data and analytics and we're now working from (indistinct) machine learning. And so we're looking at individuals that are coming from backgrounds that maybe are not typical, right? Maybe not a computer science degree, maybe they're biologists, like ourselves, you know, maybe that's how they started. Maybe they're psychologists. We have a few psychologists on the team. We have accountants on the team. And so what happens is that we're able to go into these different groups that we're partnered with and actually showcase to them from an access standpoint, how is tech really intersecting. I don't like to use the word disrupting, but intersecting with, you know, the traditional accounting degree, with a traditional biology degree. Did you know that this was happening? You know, and try to peak their interests and if they're interested in learning more taking them through that process. A very similar process that I had to make that decision you know, over a decade ago to really, you know, look at ways to reskill myself. And so we've put together different programs with those nonprofits and the colleges and other partners as well to make sure that we're moving them along the way and the path of access, and then, you know, also giving, you know some acceleration around some of the different programs. Some of the colleges are giving scholarships, which is awesome, with some of their partners to accelerate some of the people through our program to actually get some of those skill sets that are very applicable. Helping them to understand how their psychology background actually plays a part in that. So really not using random examples but really examples from their traditional learning and saying, you know, this is how this applies in the tech world. And so then it really helps to lower that bar, right? You know, so that they can really, not only have access, but really accelerate because now it's applied. And so when you are able to then apply it, show them how it can be applied in other industries, right? Whether they're similar or not, we all have data and data takes a very similar path in an interesting way. So once they're able to dive in there and then the acceptance, so then making those partnerships with our customers and, you know, other industries that maybe don't have this talent pipeline but would like to have that. They partner with us for the pipeline and so making sure that either they land with us or with one of our customers where they can now showcase what they've learned. They can go in and be more, maybe more junior at those companies, but they're able to grow over a two year cycle with that company that has an agreement that they're actually going to nurture that talent and really, you know, invest back in people who have invested in themselves. >> I love what you just described as four A's. It's so intentional and I think that's what a lot of organizations miss with respect to diversity is it's not, and it's not done with intention and interest as it should be, but it sounds like what you've developed is a fantastic playbook to provide access, to provide that ability to accelerate, to be able to apply their skills. Really kudos to that because my cheeks were hurting from smiling with what you were describing. It's just, it's so needed. There's so much opportunity out there, especially for people who might be on a zig or a zag and not sure where what to do next. Showing them, giving them the access, showing them what they can do and how it applies to their industry with data that's where the world is going. So I love that, very exciting. Last couple questions for you as we wrap up our time here. What are some of the things that you see next in cloud that are evolving that excite you about where we're going? >> I'm super excited. It brings you back to the A's. I think that companies of all sorts, right, have already gotten a lot of access because they can build a, you know, they can build a not a server farm, but necessarily they can have the power of the same computing, right, as some of the larger enterprises, whether you're a startup or, you know, smaller, medium-sized business. So I'm super excited that it's going from, I think more of a solution conversation where you're a lot closer to the end goal even from the first assessment conversation and less of an infrastructure kind of conversation where you're talking about the different services around cloud computing and, you know, inside those. And so I'm super excited about that. I think, you'll see a lot of solutions being kind of more or less pre-baked ready for those buy versus build conversations. You'll still have to configure. You'll still have to integrate, but I think we're going to all live around the API. I see a lot of APIs, you know, driving some really great SaaS applications that are really then connecting data to everything. And then it's not just about having that data that can then be shared across the organization, but even organizational units across the enterprise can self-serve from those analytics and those insights instead of, you know, I think back on one of our customers, they were a manufacturer and really it was their accounting team that brought us in and they said, listen, we need to get insights during a manufacturing run to make decisions if we're profitable or not. Right now, we're manually trying to wrangle the data as accountants across different, you know, even different states, right, to get this information and we're not getting the insights, and we're scratching the surface 'cause we don't have that time until a month after it's already shipped. There's really at that point you can't make a decision. And so they really wanted to change that. They really wanted to look at profitability. They really wanted to look at how can we go back to just being accountants? Like we don't want to be data wranglers. >> Right. >> And I think a lot of our customers are in that boat. They don't want to manually wrangle data. How can you help us to at least make it to where it's more of a self-service, and we're consuming, not the data, but the insights, right? So we can be actionable on the insights. And that's what I'm super excited about, and that's what I think you'll see become easier and easier for companies to be able to do with cloud computing. >> Which is so exciting because the frontier is endless but as every company, whether it's a retailer, or a manufacturer, or a life sciences organization have to be a data company these days. There's no choice. You have to be able to serve customers 'cause of course we have the demand as consumers in our personal lives and our business lives. We want that data to deliver relevant content to us. And so organizations have to work with folks like you to be able to do that. Tia, it's been such a pleasure having you on the program. Thank you so much for giving us some of your time walking us through your interesting background and some of the great techniques that you're employing at your company to really help drive organizations to be successful with with the talent pipeline, with the cloud. We really appreciate your insights. >> Thank you so much, Lisa. Appreciate you, theCUBE, AWS as well, thank you. >> Yeah, you're very welcome. For Tia Dubuisson, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCube's special program series, "Women of the Cloud", brought to you by AWS. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(bright upbeat music) >> Hey everyone. Welcome to theCUBE Special Program series: Women of the Cloud brought to you by AWS. I'm your host for the series, Lisa Martin. Very pleased to welcome Kesha Williams, senior principal at Slalom who joins me next. Kesha, great to have you. Thank you so much for your time today. >> Thank you for having me Lisa. >> Tell me a little bit about you and your role at Slalom. >> Hi everyone. I've been in tech for 26 years working across several industries like the airline industry, healthcare, hospitality and several government agencies. I really built a solid foundation in the Java software engineering space. A few years ago I added on AWS in the cloud and I really haven't looked back since. Throughout my career, I realized that I had a heart to teach and mentor, and that's what really brought me to Slalom. I currently serve as a program director in our AWS Cloud Residency program, which is a career accelerator for cloud engineers. >> 26 years. So you've had some great experiences and talk along that journey. You've grown your career as well. I love that you have that heart for teaching and mentoring. I think that's fantastic. Talk about, for the audience, some of the tactical recommendations that you have for those watching to be able to follow in your footsteps and grow their careers in tech. >> Well, tech is a very broad category. I always recommend that people really figure out what they enjoy doing to help narrow that focus into a specific domain in technology. For example, do you enjoy coding? Then you would look to be a software engineer. Do you enjoy telling people what to do? Then you may enjoy technical project management, and there are so many disciplines. I also recommend for people just getting started in tech to really consider the cloud. There is a huge demand for cloud engineers and people that are cloud-literate and not enough people to fill that demand. If you're looking to start a career in the cloud, I always recommend starting with learning the foundations, so going after your AWS Certified Cloud Practitioner exam. And once you understand the foundations, then start to build that hands on experience and build that portfolio so that you can speak to what you've developed in the past. And once you have that understanding, start to think about your specialty area. Do you want to specialize in machine learning or security or networking, and then continue to go after those more advanced certifications? >> That is brilliant advice that you really walked the audience through very strategically. I love how you think about it in that sense. I'd love to get into now you've grown your career over 26 years, as you said, some of the success stories that you've had in cloud. Can you share a few of those with us that you think really demonstrate the value of that foundation that you've built? >> Sure. I think a lot about success stories that really hit home and the first one that comes to mind is Georgia State University. That hits home because I'm from Georgia. It also hits home because my son attended Georgia State University. And Slalom joined Georgia State to really help them adopt this serverless approach and implement DevOps practices, and what that brings with serverless, you're able to really think less about the infrastructure management, and focus on building solutions and capabilities in Georgia State's example, really helping students achieve what they're trying to achieve. And I think that just the serverless model helps organizations move faster and deliver faster and innovate faster, and that's what we saw at Georgia State University. I'm happy when I think about that project because now Georgia State is ranked as the fourth most innovative university in the country, and I believe it's because we were able to help them shift and move some of their key applications to the cloud and really realize the benefits of what the cloud brings. >> And so, I love that. The fourth most innovative university in the country. That's a pretty impressive pedigree to be able to have there and you've shown the value of that. There's value across the organization, right? Across the staff, the educators, the students, the prospective students, and of course they have such great technology foundation with which they can use to learn and grow. You've got a second great example at Securian. I'd love to hear that success story and how you really helped that organization transform itself. >> Right. Securian, that case study really speaks to me because I'm all about teaching and mentoring, and empowering people to really realize the benefits of the cloud, and we were able to do that at Securian. We came in and really helped them define their cloud strategy, define that adoption strategy, define how they're going to migrate their applications to the cloud, and then we worked right alongside them to help them do that migration. But as a part of that, we talked about talent development and really help them up level their skills to be able to maintain what we've developed from an ongoing long-term perspective. >> The talent focus, the demand for talent, your focus on that is it can be such a flywheel for organizations in terms of innovation, evolution, that in upskilling is something that every organization I think regardless of industry should be focused on. Talk to me a little bit more about the heart that you have for helping organizations to attract that talent, to retain that talent by being able to be embracing of technology in emerging technologies in their organization, and how does that help them attract talent? >> Well, when you think about the mindset of engineers and the people in tech, we always have this goal to be at the leading edge and keep our skills current and have an opportunity to experiment with the latest and greatest technologies. And there is a huge appetite for cloud engineering skills from an engineer perspective and just from a demand perspective in the industry. So when companies are utilizing these really leading edge technologies that have shifted how we build applications, how we support applications, it really attracts top talent. >> Absolutely, and that should be a focus of every organization. Speaking of talent, one of the things that is talked about tremendously in organizations is diversity. But talk to me about some of the things that you see from a diversity lens through your eyes and what are some of the challenges today? There's so much talk about it, but yet dot dot dot to be continued. >> Right, Right. I am super excited that there is a huge focus on diversity in tech. Like I mentioned before, I've been in tech for 26 years, and I remember when a lot of organizations didn't care about diversity. So I'm appreciative that now there's a huge focus. But with that, there's also a need and a desire to focus on what we call inclusion and equity. So we're seeing organizations hire diverse candidates, but when those people come in, they're not in an environment that's welcoming. They're not in an environment where they feel included. And so there can be a retention problem if there isn't a focus on also inclusion and equity, which I call the other side of diversity. >> Yeah, the other side of the coin there. That's a great point that inclusion and equity are so critical to that diversity piece. In fact, they're really kind of engines to help make it successful so that organizations can attract diverse talent, but also retain them, make them feel welcome. Talk to me about some of the commitments that Slalom has to really a DEI approach. >> Right. At Slalom, we work really hard to build a culture where employees can bring their a authentic selves to work and be authentic, and really enjoy equitable opportunities in a welcoming environment that celebrates authenticity. For example, our employees have access to a multitude of employee resource groups. Those types of groups, we call them ERGs, they really help with a sense of inclusion and a sense of belonging. When I think about the cloud residency, we do the same thing. We have a focus on diversity, so our leadership team is diverse, the residents in the program are diverse. So we have diversity from the bottom to the top. We also practice equity and inclusion in how we staff our residents on projects and how we make sure really I call it an even playing field for everyone, and really think about and understand some of the barriers that people face. And like I said, try to make it an even playing field. >> Wouldn't that be nice one day if there actually is an even playing field and we don't have to focus on this so much? That's kind of a nirvana, I think, for us to get to, but so much productivity comes when people are treated fairly. And to your point, I love that you said getting to be their authentic selves. I think that's what everybody wants in every walk of life, in every aspect of life. Let me being my authentic self and employer, I'm going to be far more productive as a result for you. I just think they're linked like this. >> I totally agree. Like you mentioned, it helps bring retention. And when people have that sense of belonging, that sense of inclusion and they know that the organization they work for really cares and values those those things. >> Speaking of authenticity, the organization needs to be authentic. That's a whole other conversation, Kesha, we could have I'm sure. But I want to ask you a final question. I can't believe you have 26 years experience in tech. Don't look at for one, but you have had- I appreciate that- >> such opportunities to grow and expand your career. You've left our audience with some fantastic strategic advice, tactical recommendations for how they can really climb that ladder. What do you see as next for the evolution in the cloud and where do you think your role is going to go? >> I definitely see this growing demand and need for machine learning. The use of how we're applying machine learning really in every area of life is just exploding. And I see just next this supercharged focus on truly democratizing machine learning and putting it in the hands of everyone: technical people, business people, non-technical people. And when I think about AWS and some of their newer services, it really seeks to do just that. And when I think about my role and in the Cloud Residency and how that role will evolve, it's just very important for me to lead the team to be intentional in building cloud engineers that can quickly jumpstart their machine learning journey to help fill that demand and better serve our clients. I also see my role really evolving into one that truly stays in line with the trends that we're seeing in the tech industry, and bringing those trends back and really preparing our cloud engineers to succeed. >> It's all about being intentional, intentional in DEI, intentional in cloud engineering, intentional in democratizing machine learning. Kesha, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the program, Women of Cloud. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and your advice with the audience. I know they appreciate it. >> Thank you for having me. >> My pleasure. For Kesha Williams, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching this special CUBE program series, Women of the Cloud brought to you by AWS. We thank you so much for watching and we'll see you soon. (bright upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey, everyone. Welcome to theCUBE's Special Program Series: Women of the Cloud, brought to you by AWS. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. Very pleased to welcome Ashley Gaare to the program, Global Extended Executive Board Member and President, North America at SoftwareONE. Ashley, welcome, it's great to have you here. >> Hi Lisa, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. >> Talk to us a little bit about you, about SoftwareONE, about your role, give us that context. >> So SoftwareONE is a global services provider for end-to-end software cloud management. We operate in over 90 countries. Our headquarters globally are in Zurich, Switzerland. Our North American headquarters are in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And I run the North American region with scales from the US, Canada, we have parts in Costa Rica, in Mexico. And our primary purpose and to serve our clients is to help them really understand the restraints in cloud management, everything from licensing used rights to financial operations to workload migrations, to help them drive better outcomes for their business. >> It's all about outcomes for the business. Every conversation we have always goes back to outcomes, but I want to learn a little bit more actually about you. Talk a little bit about your career path and then give us some recommendations that you would have for others who are looking to really kind of step the ladder in their tech careers. >> Yeah, so I've been very fortunate and blessed to be able to be at SoftwareONE for 15 years. So I came up through inside sales. I had no idea how the tech world operated, didn't even know what a server was. And I learned on the job, and this was before even cloud was really relevant. And I think for me, I get asked a lot, "How did you work your way up," so to speak, and it's really about understanding where your strengths sit and investing in those strengths, building a brand of yourself and what your identity is like within the workplace. What do you want people to know of you? Do they want to, "Oh, I got to get Ashley on this project because she accelerates and executes cleanly," right? Or, "I need Ashley to do this because she can collaborate with peers and bring people along." So really understanding where you want to sit, what your skills are, and your strengths, and then asking for mentorship, getting career advice, raising your hand, take on more, and don't ever be afraid to ask questions and admit stuff when you don't know, that humble is part of our core value within SoftwareONE, and it's really, really helped me grow in my own career. >> Ashley, I love that you talked about creating your own personal brand. Another thing that I hear often from women in this situation is creating your own personal board of directors, of mentors, and sponsors who can help guide you along that path. You also talk about investing in you, and I think that is such pertinent advice for those to be able to create success stories within their career. I would love to then know about some of the successes that you've had, where you've helped solve problems relating to cloud computing for organizations, internal, external. >> Yeah, it's a great question. That's why we're here, right? Women of the Cloud. Yeah, SoftwareONE in particular, took the approach early on that we were going to go cloud first in our services portfolio offering, right? We saw the writing on the wall. There was no reason to invest backwards and build (indistinct) and data center consulting practices. So for us, everything we built from the ground up has been cloud native. And so some of the amazing client stories that we've had are really I think, I know it's a silver lining coming out of the pandemic when you had industries hit so hard but hit so differently. And technology was at the core on how they address those problems. So you had the healthcare space that had to get protection and be able to meet with their patients face to face but virtual at the same time. So they had to be able to take the data and still governance with HIPAA laws, keep it secure but then move it to the cloud and shift it fast, right? And then you had manufacturing who had employees who had to stay on site, right? To keep the supply chain running, but at the same time you had office workers that had to move home and completely be 100% remote. And so what we've been able to do really with AWS and our certifications in that practice is AWS differentiates itself with its agility, its framework, it allows for true development in the the PaaS space. It provides a really, really secure robust end to end solution for our clients. And when you have to be able to be nimble that quickly it's created this new expectation in the industry that it could happen again. So are you set up for the next recession? Are you set up for the next pandemic? God willing, there isn't one, but you never know. And so investing in the right infrastructure there in the cloud is critical. And then having the framework, to manage it and go it is second in line and importance. >> Being able to be just aware of the situations that can happen. In hindsight, it's, that's a silver lining coming at a COVID cheer point, being able to prepare for disasters of different types or the need to establish business continuity. I mean, we saw so many organ, well every, almost that survived every surviving organization pivot to cloud during the last couple of years that had no choice to one, survive and two, to be able to be competitive in our organization. And so we've seen so many great stories of successes. And it sounds like SoftwareONE has really been at the forefront of enabling a lot of businesses, I would imagine. Can the industry be successful in that migration and that quick pivot to being competitive advantage competitively, competitive? >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think our differentiator which comes from our core strength of this licensing and asset financial management piece. So with COVID, right? When you had this great acceleration to the cloud whether it was remote workplace or it was IaaS you then had no choice but to pay what you had to pay. It was all about keeping the lights on and running the business and thriving as much as you could. And so cost wasn't a concern. And then you had the impact in certain industries where it became a concern pretty quick. And so now we're seeing this over pendulum kind of this pendulum swing back where it's like, okay we're in the cloud, now we got to go back in time and kind of fix the processes and the financial piece and the components and the compliance that we didn't really address or have time to sit and think because we were in survival mode. And that's where SoftwareONE really comes in with this end to end view on everything from what should you move to the cloud? How does it impact your budget, your bottom line should you capitalize it? Can you capitalize it? And so the CFO and the CEO and that CIO suite have to be working end to end on how to do this effectively, right? So that they can continue to thrive in the business and not just run in survival mode anymore. >> Absolutely, we're past that point of running in survival mode. We've got to be able to thrive to be able to be agile and nimble and flexible to develop new products, new services to get them to market faster than our competition. So much has changed in the last couple of years. I'm wondering what your perspective is on diversity. We've talked about it a lot in technology. We talk about DEI often. >> Yeah. >> A lot's gone on in the last couple of years thought there's so much value in thought diversity alone. But talk to me about some of the things that you're seeing through the diversity lens and what are some of the challenges that are still there that organizations need help to eradicate? >> Yeah, topic I'm very passionate about. So there's a couple of big bullets, right? That are big rocks that we have to move. There's a gender gap, we know this. There's a wage gap, we know this. Statistics state, essentially that women make 82 cents for every $1 a man makes. Men hold 75% of the US tech jobs and working mothers, for example. 34% of them do not return to the workforce. It's mind blowing, fun facts and SoftwareONE is we actually have a hundred percent return working mothers come back and stay for at least a year, yeah. And it requires really intentional investment in making sure that they have an environment that they can be successful as they transition back making diligent choices on the benefits that you provide those women so that they don't feel that they have to make some of the tough choices that they feel pressured to do. And then you have this talent shortage, right? So on top of gender, on top of pay, then you have this all up shortage of underrepresented groups, right? And you also have, in the tech space there's just a lack of talent all up. And I think looking back, hindsight's always 2020 but as a community and as a vertical in the tech space, the organizations didn't do enough good job of reaching into high schools, understanding early on in elementary and middle school to provide equal opportunity to make the computer coding classes a requirement and not an elective to give everybody exposure to how tech works in the real world, right? As opposed to offering it as an elective. It should be a requirement. I mean, it's like financial management. It's how the world runs today is on tech. So something that SoftwareONE has done to really address that is we built this academy it's only two years in its infancy, so it's young but we go intentionally to schools and we hand select and we create a program, right? To get them exposed to the industries that they're interested in. Personally though, I think we need to start way earlier on and I think that's something that we all can work better at and is exposing the next generation to setting an expectation that tech is going to be in your life. And so let's learn about it and not be afraid of it and turn it into a career, right? >> Absolutely, every company these days has to be a data company. They have to be a tug company whether it's your grocery store, a retailer, a manufacturer, a car dealer. So that kind of choice isn't really there anymore that's just the direction that these companies have to go in. You mentioned something that I love because I've been hearing it a lot from women in this series. And that is, with respect to diversity organizations need to be intentional. It has to be intentional, really from the get go. And it sounds like SoftwareONE has done a great job with intention about creating the program and looking at how can we go after and solve some of the challenges that we have today but really go after some of these younger groups who might not understand the impact and the influence that tech is having in their lives. >> Yeah, and the only way to be intentional with the right outcome is to ensure that you have diversity of thought in the leadership teams that make those decisions, right? So you can put your best foot forward in being intentional with trying to keep women in the workforce but if you don't have women on your leadership team where are you getting that feedback from? And so it starts by this getting the talent into the company at the very bottom level from an inclusion standpoint, keeping them, but also intentionally selecting the right diversity of thought at the leadership levels where they make decisions. Because that's where the magic happens Where, I have the privilege to be able to choose and work with my HR partner on what benefits we provide. And you have to have a team that's all inclusive in understanding the needs of all the groups, right? Otherwise you end up intentionally in with the best intent of heart creating benefits that don't really help women. I think it takes a lot of work and and time, but it's something that's very important. >> Very, very important. The fact that you mentioned thought diversity, the amount of value that can come from thought diversity alone is huge. I've seen so many different data points that talk about when there are females or people of color in the executive positions at organizations they are x percent say 20% more profitable. So the data is there to demonstrate the power and the business value that can come from thought diversity alone. >> Yep. Exactly. Yep. >> So moving on, we've got a couple minutes left. I want to understand what you are seeing in your crystal ball or maybe it's a magic ball about what's next in cloud. How do you see your role evolving in the industry? >> So, well, what I think what's next in cloud both from an industry and a SoftwareONE standpoint is expanding outside of this infrastructure as a service mindset where cloud was there to run your business. And the beauty of it now is that cloud is there to also drive your business and create new products and capabilities. And so one of the biggest trends we're seeing is all organizations at some form or at some point in time will become a service provider or have an application that they host that they provide to their clients, right? And so they're a tech company. And so it's not just using tech to run it's using tech to build and innovate and be able to create a profit center to be able to drive back those to meet your clients' needs. And in order for you to make the appropriate decisions on financial strategy and budget management you have to know the cost to go into, to building the product, right? And if you don't know the cost to go into the building the product then you don't know the profit margins to set and you don't have a strategy to go sell it, at market value. And so it really becomes this linchpin in all of the areas of the business where you're not only running but you're also developing and building. So you have to have a very good, strong investment in the financial operations component of cloud. And I think that's where FinOps is coming in. You'll hear that phrase a lot, right? And so the end to end ability to financially manage cloud while secure, but also with visibility is that is this next generation, and it's going to include SaaS, right? 'Cause they're going to be plugging in it's going to include governance because it's not just the CIO making decisions anymore. It's business line leaders. And so how do you have this cloud center of excellence to be able to provide the data to the decision makers so that they can drive the business? >> And that's what it's all about, is data being able to be be used, extracting insights from it in a fast real time manner to create those business decisions that help organizations to be successful to pivot when needed and to be able to meet consumer demand. Last question for you, Ashley is, if you think about in the last say five years what are some of the biggest changes in terms of the tech workforce and innovation that you've seen? And what excites you about the direction that we're going in? >> Oh, I think that, well I think the biggest change over the last five years is the criticality of the space. It used to be like, well we're not so mature in cloud. We'll eventually get there, we'll dabble in it, we'll dip our toes in it, eventually, we'll move everything. And it's like, well, we're there.(laughs) So if you're not in it, you're behind. And I think what is really important for people who want to get into this space is it doesn't mean you have to be super techy, right? The number of times people are like can you help me with my computer? And I'm like, "No, I don't even know how." Like, "No, I not can help you with your computer." I consult and I help drive, business decisions with clients. And so there's all these peripheral roles that people can get involved in, whether it's marketing or it's sales or it's product design. It's not just engineering anymore. And I think that's what's really exciting about what's to come in this space. >> The horizon is infinite. Ashley, thank you so much for joining me on the program, talking about your role, what you're doing at SoftwareONE, some of the great successes that you've had in the cloud and some of your recommendations for organizations and people to grow their careers and really increase diversity in tech. We so appreciate your time. >> Thank you, Lisa. Thanks for having me. >> My pleasure. For Ashley Gaare, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE special program series; Women of the Cloud, brought to you by AWS. Thanks so much for watching. (soft upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> We're back with Charley Dublin. He's the Vice President of Product Management at Acquia. Great to see you, Charley welcome to theCUBE. >> Nice to meet you Dave. >> Acquia, tell us about the company. >> Sure, so Acquia is the largest and best provider of Drupal hosting capabilities. We rank number two in the digital experience platform space, just behind Adobe. Very strong business growing well and innovating every day. >> Drupal open source, super deep high quality content management system. And more experience, you call it an experience platform. >> An experience platform, open, flexible. We want our customers to have choice the ability to solve their problems how they want leveraging the power of the open source community. >> What were the big challenges? Just describe your, kind of the business drivers. We're going to talk about StormForge but the things that you were facing some of the challenges that's kind of led you to StormForge. >> Sure, so our objective first is to provide the best experience with Drupal. So that entails lots of capabilities around ease of use for Drupal itself. But that has to run on a world class platform. It has to be the most performance. It has to be the most secure. It needs to be flexible to enable customers to run Drupal however they want to run Drupal. And so that involves the ability to support thousands of different kinds of modules that come out of the community. We want our customers to have choice with Drupal and to be able to support those choices on our platform. >> So optionality is key. Sometimes that creates other challenges. Like you've got one of everything. How do you deal with that challenge? >> That's a great question. Every strength is a form of weakness. And so our objective is really first to provide that choice but to do it in a cost efficient way. So we try to provide reference architectures for customers, opinionation for our customers to standardize take out some of the complexity that they might have if everything were a snowflake. But our objective is really to support their needs and err on the side of that flexibility. >> So you guys had to go through a major replatforming effort around containers and Kubernetes can you talk about that and what role StormForge played? >> Sure, so tied to the last point, our objective is to provide customers the highest performance, most secure platform. The entire industry of course is moving to Kubernetes and leveraging containers. We are a large consumer of AWS Services and are undergoing a major replatforming away from Legacy AWS towards Kubernetes and containers. And so that major replatforming effort is intending to enable customers to run applications how they want to and the power of Kubernetes and containers is to support that. And so we looked at StormForge as a way for us to right size resource capacity to support our customer's applications. >> I love it, AWS is now Legacy. But Andy Jassy one time said that if they had to redo Amazon they'd it in Lambda using serverless and so, it's been around a long time now. Okay so what were the outcomes that you were seeking? Was it, better management, cost reduction and how'd that go? >> Our customers run a wide range of applications. We support customers leveraging Drupal in every industry. Globally we do business in 30 different countries. And so what you have is a very wide range of applications and consumer and consumption models. And so we felt that leveraging StormForge would put us in a position where we'd be able to right size resource to those different kinds of applications. Essentially let the platform align to how customers wanted to operate their applications. And so StormForge's capability in conjunction with Kubernetes and containers really puts us in a position where customers are able to get the performance that they want, and when they need it on demand. A lot of the auto scaling capabilities that you get from Kubernetes and containers supports that. And so it really enables customers to run their applications how they want to functionally, as well as from a performance perspective. >> So this move toward containers and microservices sort of modern application development coincides with a modern platform like StormForge. And so there are, I'm sure there are alternatives out there, why StormForge? Maybe you could explain a little bit more about why, from your perspective what it does and why you chose them. >> So we leverage AWS in many respects in terms of the underlying platform, but we are a very strong DIY for how that platform supports Drupal applications. We view our expertise as being the best of Drupal. And so we felt like for us to true really maximize Kubernetes and containers and the power of those underlying technologies. On the one hand allows us to automate more and do more for customers. On the other side of it, it puts a tremendous burden on the level of expertise in order to do that well for every customer every day at scale. And so that at scale part of that was the challenge. And so we leverage StormForge to enable us to rightsize applications for performance, provide us cost benefits, allocate what you need when you need it for our customers. And that at scale piece is a critical part. We could do elements of it internally. We tried to do elements of that internally, but as you start getting to scale from, a few apps to hundreds of apps to certainly across our fleet of tens of thousands of applications, you really need something that leverages machine learning. You really need a technology that's integrated well within AWS and StormForge provided that solution. >> Make sure I got this right. So it sounds like you sort of from a skill standpoint transitioned or applied your skills from turning knobs if you will, to automation and scale. >> Correct. >> And what was that like? Was the team leaning into that, loving it? Was it a, a challenging thing for you guys to get there? >> That's a good question. The benefit in the way that StormForge applies it. So they leverage machine learning to enable us to make better decisions. So we still have the control elements, but we have much greater insight into what that would mean ahead of time before customers would be affected. So we still have the knobs we need, but we're able to do it at scale. And then from the automation point, it allows us to focus our deep expertise on making Drupal and the core hosting platform capabilities awesome. Sort of the stuff and resource allocation resource consumption. That's an enabler we can outsource that to StormForge >> This is not batch it's, you're basically doing this in sort of near realtime Optimize Live, is the capability, maybe you can describe what it is. >> So Optimize Live is new, we're in testing with that. We've done extensive testing with StormForge on the core call it decision making logic that allows for the right sizing of consumption and resources for our customer application. So that has already been tested. So the core engine's been tested. Optimize Live allows us to do that in real time to make policy decisions across our fleet on what's the right trade off between performance cost, other parameters. Again, it informs our decision making and our management of our platform. That would be very, very difficult otherwise. Without StormForge we'd have to do massive data aggregation. We'd have to have machine learning and additional infrastructure to manage to derive this information, and, and, and. And that is not our core business. We don't want to be doing that. We want insights to manage our platform to enable customers and StormForge for provides that. >> So it's kind of human in the loop thing. Hey, here's what like our recommendation or here's some options that you might want to, here's a path that you want to go down, but it's not taking that action for you necessarily. You don't want that. You want to make sure that the experts are have a hand in it still, is that correct? >> Correct, you still want the experts to have a hand in it but you don't want them to have a hand in it on each individual app. You need that, that machine learning capability that insight that allows you to do that at scale. >> So if you had to step back and think about your relationship with StormForge what was the business impact of bringing them in? >> First, from a time to market perspective we're able to get to market with a higher performing more cost effective solution earlier. So there's that benefit. Second benefit to the earlier point is that we're able to make resource allocation decisions focused on where our core competency is, not into the guts of Kubernetes containers and the like. Third is that the machine learning talent that StormForge brings to the table is world class. I've run machine learning teams, data science teams and would put them in the top 1% of any team that I've worked with in terms of their expertise. The logic and decision making and insights is outstanding. So we can get to the best decision, the optimal decision much more quickly. And then when you accompany that with the newer product in Optimize Live with that automation component you mentioned, all the better. So we're able to make decisions quicker, get it implemented in our platform and realize the benefits. What customers get from that is much better performance of their applications. More real time, higher, able to scale more dynamically. What we get is resource efficiency and our network and platform efficiency. We're not over allocating a capacity that costs us more money than we should. We're under allocating capacity that could have a lower performance solution for our customers. >> So that puts money in your pocket and your customers are happier. So there are higher renewal rates, less churn, high air prices over time as you add more capabilities. >> That's correct. >> What's it like, new application approach, Kubernetes containers, fine. Okay I need a modern platform but it's a relatively new company StormForge. What's it like working with them? >> Their talent level is world class. I wasn't familiar with them when I joined Acquia came to know them and been very impressed. There's many other providers in the market that will speak to some similar capabilities and will make many claims. But from our assessment our view is that they're the right partner for us, they're the right size, they're flexible, excellent team. They've evolved their technology roadmap very quickly. They deliver on their promises and commits a very good team to work with. So I've been very impressed for such an early stage company to deliver and to support our business so rapidly. So I think that's a strength. And then I think again the quality that people that's been manifested in the product itself, it's a high quality product. I think it's unique to the market. >> So Napoleon Hill famous writer, thinker, he wrote "Think and Grow Rich." If you haven't read it, check it out. One of his concepts is this a lever, small lever can move a big rock. It can be very powerful. Do you see StormForge as having that kind of effect on your business that change on your business? >> I do. Like I said, I think the engagement with them has proven, and this isn't, debatable based on the results that we've had with them. We ran that team through the ringer to validate the technology. Again, we'd heard lots of promises from other companies. Ran that team through the ringer with extensive testing across many customers, large and small, many use cases, to really stress test their capabilities. And they came out well ahead of any metric we put forth even well ahead of claims that they had coming into the engagement. They exceeded that. And so that's why I'm here. Why I'm an advocate. Why I think they're an outstanding company with a tremendous amount of potential. >> Thinking about, what can you tell us about where you want to take the company and the partnership with StormForge. >> I think the main next step is for us to engage with StormForge to drive automation drive decisioning, as we expand and move more and more customers over to our new platform. We're going to uncover use cases, different challenges as we go. So I think the, it's a learning process for both both sides, but I think the it's been successful so far and has a lot potential. >> Sounds like you had a great business and a great new partnership. So thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. >> Thank you very much, appreciate your time. >> My pleasure. And thank you for watching theCUBE, you're global leader in enterprise tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in Mountain View, California, at a really cool start-up, Phantom Auto. They're coming at this autonomous vehicle thing from a very different direction. They're not a car company, it's not BMW and Audi and Nissan and all the other people you hear about. It's a pure software play, but it really has a huge impact on the autonomous vehicle industry. We're excited with the guy who's putting all these development, business development deals together. He's Jordan Sanders, director of business development and operations. Jordan, great to see you. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. >> So, again, when I first heard about you guys I thought, "Okay, do I order "this to drive my grandfather to the store," because he shouldn't be driving even though he has his driver's license, but no, that's not it at all. You guys have a very specific target market and it's really more a biz dev than a direct-to-consumer market. >> Yeah, exactly, so we are a B2B business and our target customers are those who are closest to getting their autonomous vehicles on the road. And so, that's frankly where we're seeing the most traction for now, at this point, from customers. As you get closer to true deployment of level four robo-taxis you realize a need for remote assistance, and we think we have the best solution on the market. >> Jeff: Right. >> To actually remotely drive the car and have a human in the loop to promote safety and service. >> So, as you look at your kind of tam, your ecosystem that you're going to market with, obviously we all know Waymo. We see the cars driving around all the time, the Nest is right up the street, but how's that landscape evolving? You know, we obviously hear about Uber, we hear about Lyft, you hear little bits and pieces about BMW and different car companies. As you sit back from where you're sitting, how do you kind of segment the market, how do you figure out where you're going to go next? >> Yeah, it's an interesting question. I mean, right now, you know, there's obviously a lot of excitement around this market and where it will be in five years. Right now the number of actual autonomous vehicles deployed is relatively low, and so that is frankly what our business is tied to. Again, it's enabling every vehicle on the road to actually operate safely, and so in terms of total addressable market, how we see it evolving, right now it's a relatively small number of cars and a relatively small number of players, but we see huge opportunity and huge growth in the sector over the next five years and 10 years. >> Right, and obviously a big integration challenge for you guys because each platform that you partner with is, you know, we hear all the time, some of them are using some shared infrastructure, some of them are trying to use their own, some are RADAR, some are LIDAR, some are camera, some are combination, so from a business development point of view you guys have to integrate with all those different platforms. >> That's correct, and so that's from the very beginning, we're building our end-to-end service to be very flexible and the software piece especially can integrate with any vehicle, with any vehicle manufacturer, because frankly we want to be open to the market and we don't want to just cover, you know, one customer's vehicles. We are sort of a third party who can provide a safety solution for a number of AV operators. >> Right, now the other interesting thing that people probably don't think about is, you know, we hear all about the technology in the cars and the machines, right, and IOT and it's all about machines, but in bringing a human operator into the equation it's not just to operate the vehicle, it's actually a person and all that that means. I wonder if you can kind of explain how that impacts people's autonomous car vehicle when there's actually a person involved. >> Yeah, definitely, so I think, you know, I think about this from a personal standpoint, so part of me is very excited for autonomous vehicles and I've ridden in several autonomous vehicles, feel very comfortable in them very quickly, but I also live in Silicon Valley and not everyone does just get to zip around in autonomous vehicles and is working in this industry, and so we do view there's going to be a, you know, a big consumer adoption kind of hurdle to overcome, and a piece of that is having the passengers in the car comfortable and feeling that, you know, someone has their back, right? >> Jeff: Right. >> So that's a key part of what we believe that we deliver is a human touch to self-driving cars, which we think is very important just at a psychological level, knowing that you have somebody who is monitoring your ride and is ready to intervene and protect you, you know, in the event that something goes wrong with the ride. And the other thing is by having a human in the loop it also enables all sorts of interesting ways of providing better service, and that's going to be a very, a key piece of whenever everyone inside the car is a passenger, there are no longer drivers, we're passengers. There are going to be lots of opportunities for enhancing passenger experience, and we think part of that can be, you know, providing a human service, an actual human on the other end making you feel comfortable and also connecting you with almost like a concierge. >> Right, and like OnStar has been around forever, right, that's probably the first kind of two way- >> You said that, not me, yeah. >> Two way communication, right, into the vehicle, which at first was I think mainly a safety feature. You crash and it sends out a 911 and then I think they kind of evolved it into a little bit of a concierge service. >> Exactly, so again, there's certainly that piece that we think is going to be really important for consumer adoption. I mean, I think AAA did a survey recently that showed 75% of consumers are afraid of trusting a machine, an autonomous vehicle. Now, we're very confident that the AV tech, once you get inside an autonomous vehicle that you very quickly realize, "Wow, this is a great driver," and we're very bullish on, you know, autonomous vehicle technology and believe that it's very reliable. But again, in those edge case scenarios, having a human who's going to intervene on your behalf and be able to actually operate the vehicle will be really important. >> Right, so somebody's watching this and going, "Ha-ha-ha," you know, "I'm a hacker, I'm going to hack into the stream," and it's not going to be Ben, the nice, smooth driver taking over the car but some person that maybe we don't want taking over the car. So, in terms of security and network infrastructure, how much are you leveraging your partners' infrastructure, how much are you leveraging your own, where does kind of security fit in this whole puzzle? >> Yeah, it's a great question and certainly one that, you know, we're hearing from a lot of customers. So, we are working with a variety of cybersecurity firms for making sure that our solution is extremely secure across multiple vectors, so whether it's just on the software piece or really our end-to-end solution, from the hardware that we can offer in the car, to the software, to the actual control center, the operation center where the driver's driving you, making sure that we have end-to-end security to avoid any situation like that. >> Right, so Jordan, for the people that aren't in Silicon Valley, what should they know about autonomous vehicles, how close are we, how much is it just, you know, stuff in the newspaper and you know, kind of nirvana still or just, you know, specialize Waymo vehicles that we see all the time in this neighborhood. How close is this to Main Street, how close is this to being that vehicle that picks me up when I get off the Caltrain to San Francisco and I need to go to a meeting over the Embarcadero? >> Yeah, so I think what people should know about this technology is that it is incredible technology that will be life-saving and that needs to get on the road, but that needs to happen in a safe manner and at a time where you can have full confidence in the operation and all settings, right. The technology is incredible, and so what Phantom Auto is here to do is to get these life-saving vehicles on the road quicker, and so what I would say to the average person who's a little uncertain of this technology is that it is incredible and you're going to enjoy the experience and it will be life-saving, and again, I think Phantom Auto is working to actually bring that experience to consumers by getting these robo-taxi services deployed. >> Jeff: Right. >> Pull out the safety driver and have a remote safety driver, a Phantom Auto remote operator ready to take over control of the vehicle in the event that you need assistance. >> And in terms of where you guys are as a company, right, you're a relatively small company, got this cool Lincoln here, where are you in terms of your company? Do you have POCs in place, do you have customers in place, kind of where is it in terms of the deployment of the technology within your ecosystem? >> Yeah, well we realize that we're bringing a very critical solution to these operators, so again, if you're an autonomous vehicle developer and operator and really thinking seriously about deployment you realize that you need a solution like ours, and so on the business standpoint we have several deals already closed, some pilots planned over the next few months, so you'll be seeing a lot more, I think, of us very soon out in the market. >> All right, now you're going to see more of us on the street. So, Jordan, let's stop talking and let's go take a ride in the car. >> Let's get in the car. >> All right, he's Jordan, I'm Jeff. We're getting in the car, thanks for watching. (techy music playing)

(click) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. It's 2018. We just got out of the CES show and all the rage is autonomous vehicles. You can't get away from it. It's what everybody's talking about. Tesla just announced their autonomous truck, their autonomous Roadster. We're here in Palo Alto, right on San Antonio Road. Googleplex and Waymo's are right up the street. So everyone is all about autonomous vehicles, but we're excited to be here at Phantom Auto and they're taking a slightly different approach for a slightly different problem. We're excited to have Shai Magzimof. He's the co-founder and CEO of Phantom Auto. Shai, great to see you. >> Nice talking to you, yeah. Thanks for having me. >> So Phantom Auto, you guys just got back from CES. You were giving demos, but you weren't stuck in, like, the little lane that was protected. You were actually driving people all over the streets. >> We were driving on the Strip, yeah, yeah. We actually were picking people from the hotel lobby, so the valet guys would let us in with an empty vehicle. These videos are actually also online, and we drove them off the Strip and back to the hotel, or to another destination. >> So you're doing a whole different thing. You do not have an autonomous vehicle. >> It's not an autonomous vehicle. >> You were the ultimate chauffeur driven vehicle. >> Right. Right. So again, for the show, we did our job to show that the vehicle can drive without a driver in the driver's seat, but what we do is actually a safety solution for autonomous vehicles. And that safety is basically what happens if an autonomous vehicle artificial intelligence doesn't work. Let's say there's something that it cannot see, or something that, you know, an unidentified object, road construction areas, severe weather conditions, all this stuff happens all the time. And autonomous vehicles may struggle with the situation so Phantom Auto provides a solution that we work with these companies. We provide them that solution that allows remote operations, so someone will connect remotely. >> So let's back up a couple steps. Autonomous vehicles are meant for no driver. You guys have a driver but you're really assisted driving with a person from a remote location. So how do you describe that in a short category? I'm sure the analysts will want you to have a category. >> The category would be the same way you think about air traffic control, right, or any type of control center, like call control centers. Any type of support for customers, you would have a bunch of people sitting in front of computers, in our case they're sitting at computers with steering wheels, we'll see that later, and they can connect to a vehicle remotely, and when they move the steering wheel or press the gas or brake, it would actually happen in realtime. So we have this software that allows this realtime, critical communication for autonomous vehicles. >> Now what's weird is when we first heard about you guys, I'm thinking, okay what is the use case? Am I going to send the Phantom Auto to go pick up my hundred-year old grandfather who probably shouldn't be driving anymore, where you're escorting it. But really it's a very different application, and I don't think most people understand that, in autonomous vehicles, there's a whole lot of use cases still that they haven't quite figured out. My favorite one is when two of them pull up to a four-way stop, and neither of them wants to go first. They get stuck in a friendly lock, right, they get paper-logger, some poor kid has his foot in the intersection and is trying to wave the car through and it won't go through. So it's corner cases that you guys are all about, to really enable that next-stage of machinery. >> When I started a company, right, I'm a big believer in autonomous vehicle, I wanted to make them happen faster and sooner because it's life-saving technology. This is going to change the world. We all want it faster. Now, the reason why we're still not there yet is because there are many corner cases, edge cases, these situations where the machine didn't train enough for, and in this situation they provide a cover. So we have a person that would sit in an office, he doesn't have to be so close nearby. When we were in Vegas a couple weeks ago, the driver was in Mountain View, so Mountain View, California, Silicon Valley to Vegas, and he moves the steering wheel and he moves it real time. >> But he's driving the car. >> Yeah. >> So one of the great knocks on cloud, right, is latency, and clearly the use case that's always brought up is if you're in a self-driving car, you don't have time for the data to get it to the cloud and back to make a decision if a little ball rolls out into the street. So latency is a big issue. How do you guys deal with the latency issue? >> That's our secret sauce, obviously, but I'm happy to share as much as I can. The high level description would be, we connect multiple networks at the same time. We would usually have only AT&T in your cellphone, right, or in your car, and then we have AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, and a few networks, all of these together are bonded, and once they're bonded they get a much stronger connection. It sounds maybe easy, okay so let's plug a few phones and then get a really good connection, but it's much more complicated than that. We share and split the data across multiple networks at the same time, we prioritize the data. So, like a brake, it's very important, right, so if the remote operator is pressing the brake, you want it to be first in the vehicle, where the right side of the camera is not as critical, so lower latency for the brake, and then a little bit higher latency for something less important. >> So you've got dynamic, kind of, latent distribution. >> It's all dynamic, realtime, you know, so that's what we do, our real core. We provide this communication, real time, critical layer of communication for the video streaming and back of the data from the remote operator, back and forth all the time. >> So that's one big piece of it. Another big piece of it is the communications between the occupants in the vehicle and the driver. Another really important piece that obviously most people aren't thinking about for autonomous vehicles because they don't have that use case. But that's a pretty important piece of your solution. >> Yeah, that's a big one. I'd say that for this, you don't need to do a lot of innovation. It could be a simple call with the driver remotely. But, we're all about safety, right, and we're all about giving passengers this psychological trust, and it is true, you want to sit in a car that drives 100% of the time. If I tell you that your car today would go in and drives only 95% of the time, you would not buy this car. Same thing with autonomous vehicles. So we provide a safety and service layer. On the safety side, it's about assisting the vehicle when there's an emergency. It could be post-emergency or before it happens. Let's say you're just stuck in the middle of the lane and you don't know what happens. Even if the driver remotely wouldn't actually drive the car, you still want to be able to talk to somebody, right. So, I'd start with first the person, the driver, the human being would greet you when you enter the vehicle. It's an autonomous vehicle, he would say hello, how are you, nice to meet you, my name is let's say Ben- >> Ben is going to be your driver. >> Your driver soon, and Ben is going to tell you that whenever you have a problem, if you need any assistance, he would be there for you. That already gives you like a whole different type of experience, and when you leave the vehicle too, he's not going to be there all the time engaged with the car. The car is going to drive on an autonomous AV system, but at least he's there in case you need him. >> And again, the attention thing, which is an issue, you see with some of the test autonomous cars out there we were talking before we turned the cameras on, where the engineer's got his hands ready to grab the wheel if there's an emergency. That's not really Ben's role here. The car is going to take evasive action in terms of emergency. It's more to get out of like these weird corner cases as you said. >> Correct, it's not a test driver. Today, most autonomous vehicle companies still require and mandate it, it's actually illegal. By the regs, you have to have a person in the car. We also have a person in the car, and we do that same thing, although when Ben is driving, he's not replacing that person. He's just assisting when the autonomous vehicle system would have an issue. >> Right. So the next thing I think that's pretty interesting about your company, as you said, you're a software company. There is hardware components, you can see the back of the car, we'll take some film of the driving station, but you use a lot of off the shelf, really simple hardware to execute this. There's Logitech, little steering wheels are over there, it feels like a big video game, you've got the big, curved Samsung screens, basic cameras on the car, so talk about the opportunity to build a software company and you're leveraging somebody else's autonomous vehicle technology to really get in the middle of this with just software, a pretty cool opportunity. >> I'll tell you what. The best time of my life was earlier this year, when I was just putting this whole thing together because it was plugging in the hardware and the software, I did it together with a team that's also here in the office. Obviously, it was more challenging because from a software person to try and build this hardware, you know, is more challenging, but I'd say today, you can get anything on Amazon, you buy on eBay a part you need, you plug it in and it would just work. So, again, we did a lot of iteration, I'd say we spent a bit more money than we were supposed to. But, that works. >> Right. And then the last piece of the puzzle that I think is fascinating is the way you're going to integrate in with other people's autonomous vehicle, so again, we talked about Waymo up the street, the Google one, Uber is working on theirs, Volvo, every day you read about BMW, et cetera et cetera, so you really get to take advantage of those hardware systems, the sensor systems, the control systems, not only from those autonomous vehicles, but you're seeing now all this stuff that's coming in factory, right, avoidance collision and radar and all types of sensors, so you will have to be able to take advantage of those different platforms and integrate your system into those various platforms. >> Right. So we would work with a company, let's say if it's one of the big OEMs or ride-sharing companies, we would know how their vehicle is set up, all we need for our solution to work is a bunch of cameras and a few modems, right, so cameras everybody have, it's one of the most essential things in an autonomous vehicle- >> Right, right. >> We would just tag into these cameras, use the modems that we need for the software to run, and that's about it. So it's a pretty straightforward solution to allow remote control assistant for autonomous vehicles. >> I'm just curious, when you're talking to customers or potential partners, what is the piece that really resonates with them when you kind of explain your solution and how it fits with what they're trying to accomplish? >> Right, so our solution is really trying to help them reach market faster, so we're not replacing anybody's work. We're adding another layer of support and safety so when yous computer crashed, when your software crashed in the car, we're going to be there with another redundancy system to support with a driver remotely. So, that's what we do at the service level. >> Okay, so can I go take a drive? >> Yeah, sure. Let's do it. >> All right, we're going to check it out, we're going to take a drive. We'll see you in the car. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Welcome to the latest edition of the MIT Sloan Expert Series. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. Our topic today is racial bias in the sharing economy, how Uber and Lyft are failing black passengers, and what to do about it. Here to talk about that is Chris Knittel. He is a professor of Applied Economics here at MIT Sloan, and he's also the co-author of a study that shows how Uber and Lyft drivers discriminate based on a passenger's skin color. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Oh, it's great to be here. >> Before we begin, I want to remind our viewers that we will be taking your questions live on social media. Please use the hashtag MITSloanExpert to pose your questions on Twitter. Chris, let's get started. >> Chris: Sure. So there is a lot of research that shows how difficult it is to hail a cab, particularly for black people. Uber and Lyft were supposed to represent a more egalitarian travel option, but you didn't find that. >> That's right, so what we found in two experiments that we ran, and one in Seattle, and one in Boston, is that Uber and Lyft drivers were discriminating based on race. >> Rebecca: We've already seen, actually some evidence of racial discrimination in the sharing economy, not just with ride sharing apps. >> Sure, so there's evidence for Airbnb. And what's interesting about Airbnb actually, is that discrimination is two-sided. So not only do white renters of properties not want to rent to black rentees, but white renters do not stay at a home of a black home owner. >> Did your findings and the findings of that other research you just talked about, does it make you discouraged? >> Partly, I was an optimist. We went into this, at least I went into this hoping that we wouldn't find discrimination, but one thing that has helped, or at least shined a more positive light, is that there are ways that we can do better in this sector. >> You've talked about this study, which you undertook with colleagues from the University of Washington and Stanford, shows the power of the experiment. Can you talk a little bit about what you mean by that? >> Sure, what we did was actually run two randomized control trials. Just like you would test whether a blood pressure medication works, so you would have a control group that wouldn't get the medication, and a treatment group that would. We did the same thing where we sent out in Seattle both black and white RAs that hailed Uber and Lyft rides, and we randomized whether or not it was a black RA calling the ride or a white RA that particular time, and they all drove the same exact route at the same exact times of the day. >> So what did you find? Let's talk about first, what you found in Seattle. >> Sure, so in Seattle, we measured how long it took for a ride to be accepted, and also, how long it took, once it was accepted, for the driver to show up and pick up the passenger. And what we found is, if you're a black research assistant, that in hailing an Uber ride, it took 30 percent longer for a ride to be accepted, and also 30 percent longer for the driver to show up and pick you up. >> 30 percent seems substantial. >> Well, for the time it takes to accept the ride, we're talking seconds, but for the time it takes for a passenger to actually be picked up, it's over a minute longer. And I'll mention also for Lyft, we found a 30 percent increase in the amount of time it took to be accepted, but there was no statistically significant impact on how long it took for the driver to actually show up. >> So, the thing about the minute difference, that can be material, particularly if you're trying to catch a cab, an Uber or a Lyft for a job interview or to get to the airport. >> Yeah, this is introspection, but I always seem to be late, so even a minute can be very costly. >> I hear you, I hear you. So why do you think there was the difference between Lyft and Uber? >> What's interesting, and we learned this while we were doing the experiment, a Lyft driver sees the name of the passenger before they accept the ride, whereas an Uber driver only sees the name after they've accepted. So in order for an Uber driver to discriminate, they have to first accept the ride, and then see the name and then cancel, whereas a Lyft driver can just pass it up right away. So it turns out because of that, the Lyft platform is more easily capable of handling discrimination because it pushed it to another driver faster than the Uber platform. >> I want to come back to that, but I want to say also, that difference caused you to change the way you did the experiment in Boston. >> In Boston, a couple differences. One is that we sent out RAs with two cell phones actually. So each RA had an Uber and Lyft account under a stereotypically white sounding name, and then also an Uber and Lyft account under a stereotypically black sounding name. That was one difference, and then also, what we measured in Boston that we didn't measure in Seattle, is cancellations. So an Uber driver accepts the ride, and then cancels on the RA. >> Let's go back to the stereotypically black sounding name verses white sounding name. You're an economist, how did you determine what those names are? >> We relied on another published paper that actually looked at birth records from the 1970s in Boston, and the birth records tell you not only the name, but also the race of the baby. So they found names that actually 100 percent of the time were African American or 100 percent of the time were not African American. So we relied on those names. >> And the names were... >> So you could imagine Jamal for example, compared to Jerry. >> Alright, Ayisha and Alison. >> Chris: Sure. >> So what was your headline finding in Boston? >> In Boston, what we found is, if you were a black male calling an Uber ride, that you were canceled upon more than twice as often as if you were a white male. >> And what about Lyft? >> For Lyft, there is no cancellation effect, and that's not because there's no discrimination, it's just that they don't have to accept and then cancel the ride, they can just pass up the ride completely. It's actually a nice little experiment within the experiment, we shouldn't find an effect of names on cancellations for Lyft and in fact, we don't. >> And also, the driver network is much thicker in Boston than in Seattle. >> So in Boston, although we found this cancellation effect, we didn't find that it has a measurable impact on how long you wait. And this is somewhat speculation, but we speculate that that's because the driver network is so much more dense in Boston that, although you were canceled upon, there's so many only drivers nearby, that it doesn't lead to a longer wait time. >> How do you think what you found compares to hailing traditional cabs? We started our conversation talking about the vast body of research that shows how difficult it is for black people to hail cabs. >> Yeah, we are quick to point out that we are not at all saying that Uber and Lyft are worse than traditional, status quo system, and we want to definitely make that clear. In fact, in Seattle, we had our same research assistants stand at the busiest corners and hail cabs. What we found there is, if you were a black research assistant, the first cab passed you 80 percent of the time. But if you were a white research assistant, it only passed you 20 percent of the time. So just like the previous literature has found, we found discrimination with the status quo system as well. >> You've talked to the companies about you findings, what has the response been? >> That's been actually heartening. Both companies reached out to us very quickly, and we've had continued conversations with them, and we're actually trying to design followup studies to minimize the amount of discrimination that's occurring for both Uber and Lyft. >> But those are off the record and... >> Right, we're not talking specifics, but what I can say is that the companies understand this research and they definitely want to do better. >> In fact, the companies both have issued statements about this, the first one is from Lyft, "we are extremely proud of the positive impact..." Uber has also responded. So let's talk about solutions to this. What do you and your colleagues who undertook this research suggest? >> We've been brainstorming, we don't know for sure if we have the silver bullet, but a few things could change, for example, you could imagine Uber and Lyft getting rid of names completely. We realize that has a trade off in the sense that it's nice to know the name of the driver... >> Rebecca: Sure, you can strike up a conversation... >> It makes it more social, it makes it more personal, more peer to peer if you will. But it would eliminate the type of discrimination that we uncovered. Another potential change is to delay when you give the name to the driver, so that the driver has to commit more to the ride than he or she previously had to. And that may increase the costs of discrimination. >> So that would be changing the software? >> Right, so you could imagine now, like I said, with Lyft that you see the name right away. Maybe you wait until they're 30 seconds away from the passenger before you give them the name. >> What about the dawn of the age of autonomous vehicles? Might that have an impact? We already know that Uber is experimenting with driverless cars in Pittsburgh and Arizona. >> That would obviously solve it, so that would take the human element out of things, and it's important to point out that these are the drivers that are deciding to discriminate. So provided you didn't write the autonomous vehicle software to discriminate, you would know for sure that that car is not going to discriminate. >> What about a driver education campaign? Do you think that would make a difference? I'm reminded of an essay written by Doug Glanville, who is an ESPN commentator and former pro ball player. He writes, on talking about his experience being denied service by an Uber driver, "the driver had concluded I was a threat, "either because I was dangerous myself, "or because I would direct him to a bad neighborhood, "or give him a lower tip, either way, "given the circumstances, it was hard "to attribute his refusal to anything other than my race. "Shortly after we walked away, I saw the driver assisting "another passenger who was white." >> We all hope that information helps, and eliminates discrimination. It's certainly possible that Uber and Lyft could have a full information campaign, where they show the tip rates for different ethnicities, they show the bad ride probabilities for different ethnicities, and my hope is that once the drivers learn that there aren't differences across ethnicities, that the drivers would internalize that, and stop discriminating. >> Policy, Senator Al Franken has weighed in on this, urging Uber and Lyft to address your research. Do you think that there could be policies too? Does government have a role to play? >> Potentially, but what I'll say again is, that Uber and Lyft, I think have all the incentive in the world to fix this, and that they seem to be taking active steps to fixing this. So what could policy makers do? They can, obviously it's already outlawed. They could come down and potentially fine the companies if there's more evidence of discrimination. But I would at least allow the companies some time to internalize this research, and respond to it, and see how effective they can be. >> Many, many think tanks and government advocacy groups have weighed in too. The MIT Sloan Expert Series recently sat down with Eva Millona of the Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Coalition. She will talk about this research in the context of immigration, let's roll that clip. >> We're an advocacy organization, and we represent the interest of foreign born, and our mission is to promote and enhance immigrant and refugee integration. Anecdotally, yes, I would say that the research, and given the impressive sample of the research really leads to a sad belief that discrimination is still out there, and there is a lot that needs to be done across sectors to really address these issues. We are really privileged to live in such a fantastic commonwealth with the right leadership and all sectors together, really making our commonwealth a welcoming place. And I do want to highlight the fantastic role of our Attorney General for standing up for our values, but Massachusetts is one state, and it could be an example, but the concern is nation wide. Given a very divisive campaign, and also not just a campaign, but also, what is currently happening at the national level that the current administration is really rejecting this welcoming effort, and the values of our country as a country, who welcomes immigrants. All sectors need to be involved in an effort to really make our society a better one for everyone. And it's going to take political leadership to really set the right tone, send the right message, and really look into the integration, and the welcoming of the newcomers as an investment in our future of our nation. Uber and Lyft have an opportunity here to provide leadership and come up with promotion of policies that integrate the newcomers, or that are welcoming to the newcomers, provide education and training, and train their people. And as troubling as the result of this research are, we like to believe that this is the attitude of the drivers, but not really what the corporate represents, so we see an opportunity for the corporate to really step in and work and promote policies of integration, policies of improvement and betterment for the whole of society and provide an example. Let me say thank you to Professor Knittle for his leadership and MIT for always being a leader, and looking into these issues. But if we can go deeper into A, the size, B, the geography, but also looking into a wider range of all communities that are represented. Looking into the Latino community, looking into the Arab communities in other parts of the nation in a more rigorous, more deep and larger size of research will be very helpful in terms of promoting better policies and integration for everybody who chooses America to be their home. >> That was Eva Millona of the Massechusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition. Chris, are you confident this problem can in fact be remedied? >> I think we can do better, for sure. And I would say we need more studies like what we just preformed to see how widespread it is. We only studied two cities, we also haven't looked at all at how the driver's race impacts the discrimination. >> Now we're going to turn to you, questions from our viewers. Questions have already been coming in this morning and overnight, lots of great ones. Please use the hashtag MITSloanExpert to pose your question. The first one comes from Justin Wang, who is an MIT Sloan MBA student. He asks, "what policies can sharing economy startups "implement to reduce racial bias?" >> Well, I would say the first thing is to be aware of this. I think Uber and Lyft and Airbnb potentially were caught off guard with the amount of discrimination that was taking place. So the research that we preformed, and the research on Airbnb gives new startups a head start on designing their platforms. >> Just knowing that this is an issue. >> Knowing it's an issue, and potentially designing their platforms to think of ways to limit the amount of discrimination. >> Another question, did you look at gender bias? Do you have any indication that drivers discriminate based on gender? >> We did look at gender bias. The experiments weren't set up to necessarily nail that, but one thing that we found, for example in Boston, is that there is some evidence that women drivers were taken on longer trips. Again, both the male and the female RAs are going from the same point A to the same point B. >> Rebecca: That was a controlled part of the setting. >> That was the controlled part of the experiment. And we found evidence that women passengers were taken on longer trips and in fact, one of our RAs commented that she remembers going through the same intersection three times before she finally said something to the driver. >> And you think... So you didn't necessarily study this as part of it, but do you have any speculation, conjecture about why this was happening? >> Well, there's two potential motives. One is a financial motive that, by taking the passenger on a longer drive. They potentially get a higher fare. But I've heard anecdotal evidence that a more social motive might also be at play. For example, I have a colleague here at Sloan, who's told me that she's been asked out on dates three times while taking Uber and Lyft rides. >> So drivers taking the opportunity to flirt a little bit. >> Chris: Sure. >> Another question, can you comment on the hashtag DeleteUber campaign? This of course, is about the backlash against Uber responding that it was intending to profit from President Trump's executive order, the banning immigrants and refugees from certain countries from entering the United States. Uber maintains that its intentions were misunderstood, but it didn't stop the hashtag DeleteUber campaign. >> Yeah, I haven't followed that super closely, but to me it seems like Uber's getting a bit of a bad rap. One potential reason why they allowed Uber drivers to continue working is that, maybe they wanted to bring protesters to the airports to protest. So from that perspective, actually having Uber and Lyft still in business would be beneficial. >> Another question, did your study take into account the race of the drivers themselves? >> We actually we not allowed to. So any time you do a randomized control trial in the field like this, you have to go through a campus committee that approves or disapproves the research, and they were worried that if we collected information on the driver, that potentially, Uber and Lyft could go back into their records and find the drivers that discriminate, and then have penalties assigned to those drivers. >> So it just wouldn't be allowed to... >> At least in this first phase, yeah. They didn't want us to collect those data. >> Last question, we have time for one more. Why aren't there more experiments in the field of applies economics like this one? That's a good question. >> That's a great question, and in fact, I think many of us are trying to push experiments as much as possible. My other line of research is actually in energy and climate change research, and we've been- >> Rebecca: You like the hot topic. (lauhging) >> We've been designing a bunch of experiments to look at how information impacts consumers' choices in terms of what cars to buy, how it impacts their use of electricity at home. And experiments, randomized control trials actually started in developmental economics, where MIT has actually pioneered their use. And again, it's the best way to actually test, the most rigorous way to test whether intervention actually has an effect because you have both the controlled group and the treatment group. >> So why aren't they done more often? >> Well, it's tough, often you need to find a third party, for example, we didn't need a third party in the sense that we could just send RAs out with Uber and Lyft. But if we wanted to do anything with the drivers, for example, an information campaign, or if we wanted to change the platform at all, we would've needed Uber and Lyft to partner with us, and that can sometimes be difficult to do. And also experiments, let's be honest, are pretty expensive. >> Expensive because, you obviously weren't partnered with Uber and Lyft for this one, but... >> Right, but we had research assistants take 1500 Uber and Lyft rides, so we had to pay for each of those rides, and we also had to give them an hourly rate for their time. >> Well, Chris Knittle, thank you so much. This has been great talking to you, and you've given us a lot to think about. >> It's been fun, thanks for having me. >> And thank you for joining us on this edition of the MIT Sloan Expert Series. We hope to see you again soon.

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to The Great Cloud Debate. I'm your moderator Rachel Dines. I'm joined by two debaters today Corey Quinn, Cloud Economist at the Duckbill Group and Stu Miniman, Senior Analyst and Host of theCube. Welcome Corey and Stu, this when you can say hello. >> Hey Rachel, great to talk to you. >> And it's better to talk to me. It's always a pleasure to talk to the fine folks over at CloudHealth at by VMware and less of the pleasure to talk to Stu. >> Smack talk is scheduled for later in the agenda gentlemen, so please keep it to a minimum now to keep us on schedule. So here's how today is going to work. I'm going to introduce a debate topic and assign Corey and Stu each to a side. Remember, their assignments are what I decide and they might not actually match their true feelings about a topic, and it definitely does not represent the feelings of their employer or my employer, importantly. Each debater is going to have two minutes to state their opening arguments, then we'll have rebuttals. And each round you the audience gets to vote of who you think is winning. And at the end of the debate, I'll announce the winner. The prize is bragging rights of course, but then also we're having each debater play to win lunch for their local hospital, which is really exciting. So Stu, which hospital are you playing for? >> Yeah, so Rachel, I'm choosing Brigham Women's Hospital. I get a little bit of a home vote for the Boston audience here and was actually my wife's first job out of school. >> Great hospital. Very, very good. All right, Corey, what about you? >> My neighbor winds up being as specialist in infectious diseases as a doctor, and that was always one of those weird things you learn over a cocktail party until this year became incredibly relevant. So I will absolutely be sending the lunch to his department. >> Wonderful! All right. Well, is everyone ready? Any last words? This is your moment for smack talk. >> I think I'll say that for once we can apply it to a specific technology area. Otherwise, it was insulting his appearance and that's too easy. >> All right, let's get going. The first topic is multicloud. Corey, you'll be arguing that companies are better off standardizing on a single cloud. While Stu, you're going to argue the companies are better off with a multicloud strategy. Corey, you're up first, two minutes on the clock and go. >> All right. As a general rule, picking a single provider and going all in leads to the better outcome. Otherwise, you're trying to build every workload to run seamlessly on other providers on a moment's notice. You don't ever actually do it and all you're giving up in return is the ability to leverage whatever your primary cloud provider is letting you build. Now you're suddenly trying to make two differently behaving load balancers work together in the same way, you're using terraform or as I like to call it multicloud formation in the worst of all possible ways. Because now you're having to only really build on one provider, but all the work you're putting in to make that scale to other providers, you might theoretically want to go to at some point, it slows you down, you're never going to be able to move as quickly trying to build for everyone as you are for one particular provider. And I don't care which provider you pick, you probably care which one you pick, I don't care which one. The point is, you've got to pick what's right for your business. And in almost every case, that means start on a single platform. And if you need to migrate down the road years from now, great, that means A you've survived that long, and B you now have the longevity as a business to understand what migrating looks like. Otherwise you're not able to take care of any of the higher level offerings these providers offer that are even slightly differentiated from each other. And even managed database services behave differently. You've got to become a master of all the different ways these things can fail and unfortunate and displeasing ways. It just leaves you in a position where you're not able to specialize, and of course, makes hiring that much harder. Stu, fight me! >> Tough words there. All right, Stu, your turn. Why are companies better off if they go with a multicloud strategy? Got two minutes? >> Yeah, well first of all Corey, I'm really glad that I didn't have to whip out the AWS guidelines, you were not sticking strictly to it and saying that you could not use the words multicloud, cross-cloud, any cloud or every cloud so thank you for saving me that argument. But I want you to kind of come into the real world a little bit. We want access to innovation, we want flexibility, and well, we used to say I would have loved to have a single provider, in the real world we understand that people end up using multiple solutions. If you look at the AI world today, there's not a provider that is a clear leader in every environment that I have. So there's a reason why I might want to use a lot of clouds. Most companies I talked to, Corey, they still have some of their own servers. They're working in a data center, we've seen huge explosion in the service provider world connecting to multiple clouds. So well, a couple of years ago, multicloud was a complete mess. Now, it's only a little bit of a mess, Corey. So absolutely, there's work that we need to do as an industry to make these solutions better. I've been pining for a couple years to say that multicloud needs to be stronger than the sum of its pieces. And we might not yet be there but limiting yourself to a single cloud is reducing your access to innovation, it's reducing your flexibility. And when you start looking at things like edge computing and AI, I'm going to need to access services from multiple providers. So single cloud is a lovely ideal, but in the real world, we understand that teams come with certain skill sets. We end up in many industries, we have mergers and acquisitions. And it's not as easy to just rip out all of your cloud, like you would have 20 years ago, if you said, "Oh, well, they have a phone system or a router "that didn't match what our corporate guidelines is." Cloud is what we're doing. There's lots of solutions out there. And therefore, multicloud is the reality today, and will be the reality going forward for many years to come. >> Strong words from you, Stu. Corey, you've got 60 seconds for rebuttal. I mostly agree with what you just said. I think that having different workloads in different clouds makes an awful lot of sense. Data gravity becomes a bit of a bear. But if you acquire a company that's running on a different cloud than the one that you've picked, you'd be ridiculous to view migrating as anything approaching a strategic priority. Now, this also gets into the question of what is cloud? Our G Suite stuff counts as cloud, but no one really views it in that way. Similarly, when you have an AI specific workload, that's great. As long as it isn't you seriously expensive to move data between providers. That workload doesn't need to live in the same place as your marketing website does. I think that the idea of having a specific cloud provider that you go all in on for every use case, well, at some point that leads to ridiculous things like pretending that Amazon WorkDocs has customers, it does not. But for things that matter to your business and looking at specific workloads, I think that you're going to find a primary provider with secondary workloads here and they're scattered elsewhere to be the strategy that people are getting at when they use the word multicloud badly. >> Time's up for you Corey, Stu we've got time for rebuttal and remember, for those of you in the audience, you can vote at any time and who you think is winning this round. Stu, 60 seconds for a rebuttal. >> Yeah, absolutely Corey. Look, you just gave the Andy Jassy of what multicloud should be 70 to 80% goes to a single provider. And it does make sense we know nobody ever said multicloud equals the same amount in multiple environments but you made a clear case as to why multicloud leveraging multi providers is likely what most companies are going to do. So thank you so much for making a clear case as to why multicloud not equal cloud, across multiple providers is the way to go. So thank you for conceding the victory. >> Last Words, Corey. >> If that's what you took from it Stu, I can't get any closer to it than you have. >> All right, let's move on to the next topic then. The next topic is serverless versus containers which technology is going to be used in, let's say, five to 10 years time? And as a reminder, I'm going to assign each of the debaters these topics, their assignments may or may not match their true feelings about this topic, and they definitely don't represent the topics of my employer, CloudHealth by VMware. Stu, you're going to argue for containers. Corey you're going to argue for start serverless. Stu, you're up first. Two minutes on the clock and go. >> All right, so with all respect to my friends in the serverless community, We need to have a reality check as to how things work. We all know that serverless is a ridiculous name because underneath we do need to worry about all of the infrastructure underneath. So containers today are the de facto building block for cloud native architectures, just as the VM defined the ecosystem for an entire generation of solutions. Containers are the way we build things today. It is the way Google has architected their entire solution and underneath it is often something that's used with serverless. So yes, if you're, building an Alexa service, serverless make what's good for you. But for the vast majority of solutions, I need to have flexibility, I need to understand how things work underneath it. We know in IT that it's great when things work, but we need to understand how to fix them when they break. So containerization gets us to that atomic level, really close to having the same thing as the application. And therefore, we saw the millions of users that deploy Docker, we saw the huge wave of container orchestration led by Kubernetes. And the entire ecosystem and millions of customers are now on board with this way of designing and architecting and breaking down the silos between the infrastructure world and the application developer world. So containers, here to stay growing fast. >> All right, Corey, what do you think? Why is serverless the future? >> I think that you're right in that containers are the way you get from where you were to something that runs effectively in a cloud environment. That is why Google is so strongly behind Kubernetes it helps get the entire industry to write code the way that Google might write code. And that's great. But if you're looking at effectively rewriting something from scratch, or building something that new, the idea of not having to think about infrastructure in the traditional sense of being able to just here, take this code and run it in a given provider that takes whatever it is that you need to do and could loose all these other services together, saves an awful lot of time. As that continues to move up the stack towards the idea of no code or low code. And suddenly, you're now able to build these applications in ways that require just a little bit of code that tie together everything else. We're closer than ever to that old trope of the only code you write is business logic. Serverless gives a much clearer shot of getting there, if you can divorce yourself from the past of legacy workloads. Legacy, of course meaning older than 18 months and makes money. >> Stu, do you have a rebuttal, 60 seconds? >> Yeah. So Corey, we've been talking about this Nirvana in many ways. It's the discussion that we had for paths for over a decade now. I want to be able to write my code once not worry about where it lives, and do all this. But sometimes, there's a reason why we keep trying the same thing over and over again, but never reaching it. So serverless is great for some application If you talked about, okay, if you're some brand new webby thing there and I don't want to have to do this team, that's awesome. I've talked to some wonderful people that don't know anything about coding that have built some cool stuff with serverless. But cool stuff isn't what most business runs on, and therefore containerization is, as you said, it's a bridge to where I need to go, it lives in these cloud environments, and it is the present and it is the future. >> Corey, your response. >> I agree that it's the present, I doubt that it's the future in quite the same way. Right now Kubernetes is really scratching a major itch, which is how all of these companies who are moving to public cloud still I can have their infrastructure teams be able to cosplay as cloud providers themselves. And over time, that becomes simpler and I think on some level, you might even see a convergence of things that are container workloads begin to look a lot more like serverless workloads. Remember, we're aiming at something that is five years away in the context of this question. I think that the serverless and container landscape will look very different. The serverless landscape will be bright and exciting and new, whereas unfortunately the container landscape is going to be represented by people like you Stu. >> Hoarse words from Corey. Stu, any last words or rebuttals? >> Yeah, and look Corey absolutely just like we don't really think about the underlying server or VM, we won't think about the containers you won't think about Kubernetes in the future, but, the question is, which technology will be used in five to 10 years, it'll still be there. It will be the fabric of our lives underneath there for containerization. So, that is what we were talking about. Serverless I think will be useful in pockets of places but will not be the predominant technology, five years from now. >> All right, tough to say who won that one? I'm glad I don't have to decide. I hope everyone out there is voting, last chance to vote on this question before we move on to the next. Next topic is cloud wars. I'm going to give a statement and then I'm going to assign each of you a pro or a con, Google will never be an actual contender in the cloud wars always a far third, we're going to have Corey arguing that Google is never going to be an actual contender. And Stu, you're going to argue that Google is eventually going to overtake the top two AWS and Azure. As a constant reminder, I'm assigning these topics, it's my decision and also they don't match the opinions of me, my employer, or likely Stu or Corey. This is all just for fun and games. But I really want to hear what everyone has to say. So Corey, you're up first two minutes. Why is Google never going to be an actual contender and go. >> The biggest problem Google has in the time of cloud is their ability to forecast longer term on anything that isn't their advertising business, and their ability to talk to human beings long enough to meet people where they are. We're replacing their entire culture is what it's going to take to succeed in the time of cloud and with respect, Thomas Kurian is a spectacular leader internally but look at where he's come from. He spent 22 years at Oracle and now has been transplanted into Google. If we take a look at Satya Nadella's cloud transformation at Microsoft, he was able to pull that off as an insider, after having known intimately every aspect of that company, and he grew organically with it and was perfectly positioned to make that change. You can't instill that kind of culture change by dropping someone externally, on top of an organization and expecting anything to go with this magic one day wake up and everything's going to work out super well. Google has a tremendous amount of strengths, and I don't see that providing common denominator cloud computing services to a number of workloads that from a Google perspective are horrifying, is necessarily in their wheelhouse. It feels like their entire focus on this is well, there's money over there. We should go get some of that too. It comes down to the traditional Google lack of focus. >> Stu, rebuttal? Why do you think Google has a shaft? >> Yeah, so first of all, Corey, I think we'd agree Google is a powerhouse in the world today. My background is networking, when they first came out with with Google Cloud, I said, Google has the best network, second to none in the world. They are ubiquitous today. If you talk about the impact they have on the world, Android phones, you mentioned Kubernetes, everybody uses G Suite maps, YouTube, and the like. That does not mean that they are necessarily going to become the clear leader in cloud but, Corey, they've got really, really smart people. If you're not familiar with that talk to them. They'll tell you how smart they are. And they have built phenomenal solutions, who's going to be able to solve, the challenge every day of, true distributed systems, that a global database that can handle the clock down to the atomic level, Google's the one that does that we've all read the white papers on that. They've set the tone for Hadoop, and various solutions that are all over the place, and their secret weapon is not the advertising, of course, that is a big concern for them, but is that if you talk about, the consumer adoption, everyone uses Google. My kids have all had Chromebooks growing up. It isn't their favorite thing, but they get, indoctrinated with Google technology. And as they go out and leverage technologies in the world, Google is one that is known. Google has the strength of technology and a lot of positioning and partnerships to move them forward. Everybody wants a strong ecosystem in cloud, we don't want a single provider. We already discussed this before, but just from a competitive nature standpoint, if there is a clear counterbalance to AWS, I would say that it is Google, not Microsoft, that is positioned to be that clear and opportune. >> Interesting, very interesting Stu. So your argument is the Gen Zers will of ultimately when they come of age become the big Google proponents. Some strong words that as well but they're the better foil to AWS, Corey rebuttal? >> I think that Stu is one t-shirt change away from a pitch perfect reenactment of Charlie Brown. In this case with Google playing the part of Lucy yanking the football away every time. We've seen it with inbox, Google Reader, Google Maps, API pricing, GKE's pricing for control plane. And when your argument comes down to a suddenly Google is going to change their entire nature and become something that it is as proven as constitutionally incapable of being, namely supporting something that its customers want that it doesn't itself enjoy working on. And to the exclusion of being able to get distracted and focused on other things. Even their own conferences called Next because Google is more interested in what they're shipping than what they're building, than what they're currently shipping. I think that it is a fantasy to pretend that that is somehow going to change without a complete cultural transformation, which again, I don't see the seeds being planted for. >> Some sick burns in there Stu, rebuttal? >> Yeah. So the final word that I'll give you on this is, one of the most important pieces of what we need today. And we need to tomorrow is our data. Now, there are some concerns when we talk about Google and data, but Google also has strong strength in data, understanding data, helping customers leverage data. So while I agree to your points about the cultural shift, they have the opportunity to take the services that they have, and enable customers to be able to take their data to move forward to the wonderful world of AI, cloud, edge computing, and all of those pieces and solve the solution with data. >> Strong words there. All right, that's a tough one. Again, I hope you're all out there voting for who you think won that round. Let's move on to the last round before we start hitting the lightning questions. I put a call out on several channels and social media for people to have questions that they want you to debate. And this one comes from Og-AWS Slack member, Angelo. Angelo asks, "What about IBM Cloud?" Stu you're pro, Corey you're con. Let's have Stu you're up first. The question is, what about IBM Cloud? >> All right, so great question, Angelo. I think when you look at the cloud providers, first of all, you have to understand that they're not all playing the same game. We talked about AWS and they are the elephant in the room that moves nimbly as a cheetah. Every other provider plays a little bit of a different game. Google has strength in data. Microsoft, of course, has their, business productivity applications. IBM has a strong legacy. Now, Corey is going to say that they are just legacy and you need to think about them but IBM has strong innovation. They are a player in really what we call chapter two of the cloud. So when we start talking about multicloud, when we start talking about living in many environments, IBM was the first one to partner with VMware for VMware cloud before the mega VMware AWS announcement, there was IBM up on stage and if I remember right, they actually have more VMware customers on IBM Cloud than they do in the AWS cloud. So over my shoulder here, there's of course, the Red Hat $34 billion to bet on that multicloud solution. So as we talk about containerization, and Kubernetes, Red Hat is strongly positioned in open-source, and flexibility. So you really need a company that understands both the infrastructure side and the application side. IBM has database, IBM has infrastructure, IBM has long been the leader in middleware, and therefore IBM has a real chance to be a strong player in this next generation of platforms. Doesn't mean that they're necessarily going to go attack Amazon, they're partnering across the board. So I think you will see a kinder, gentler IBM and they are leveraging open source and Red Hat and I think we've let the dogs out on the IBM solution. >> Indeed. >> So before Corey goes, I feel the need to remind everyone that the views expressed here are not the views of my employer nor myself, nor necessarily of Corey or Stu. I have Corey. >> I haven't even said anything yet. And you're disclaiming what I'm about to say. >> I'm just warning the audience, 'cause I can't wait to hear what you're going to say next. >> Sounds like I have to go for the high score. All right. IBM's best days are behind it. And that is pretty clear. They like to get angry when people talk about how making the jokes about a homogenous looking group of guys in blue suits as being all IBM has to offer. They say that hasn't been true since the '80s. But that was the last time people cared about IBM in any meaningful sense and no one has bothered to update the relevance since then. Now, credit where due, I am seeing an awful lot of promoted tweets from IBM into my timeline, all talking about how amazing their IBM blockchain technology is. And yes, that is absolutely the phrasing of someone who's about to turn it all around and win the game. I don't see it happening. >> Stu, rebuttal? >> Look, Corey, IBM was the company that brought us the UPC code. They understand Mac manufacturing and blockchain actually shows strong presence in supply chain management. So maybe you're not quite aware of some of the industries that IBM is an expert in. So that is one of the big strengths of IBM, they really understand verticals quite well. And, at the IBM things show, I saw a lot in the healthcare world, had very large customers that were leveraging those solutions. So while you might dismiss things when they say, Oh, well, one of the largest telecom providers in India are leveraging OpenStack and you kind of go with them, well, they've got 300 million customers, and they're thrilled with the solution that they're doing with IBM, so it is easy to scoff at them, but IBM is a reliable, trusted provider out there and still very strong financially and by the way, really excited with the new leadership in place there, Arvind Krishna knows product, Jim Whitehurst came from the Red Hat side. So don't be sleeping on IBM. >> Corey, any last words? >> I think that they're subject to massive disruption as soon as they release the AWS 400 mainframe in the cloud. And I think that before we, it's easy to forget this, but before Google was turning off Reader, IBM stopped making the model M buckling spring keyboards. Those things were masterpieces and that was one of the original disappointments that we learned that we can't fall in love with companies, because companies in turn will not love us back. IBM has demonstrated that. Lastly, I think I'm thrilled to be working with IBM is exactly the kind of statement one makes only at gunpoint. >> Hey, Corey, by the way, I think you're spending too much time looking at all titles of AWS services, 'cause you don't know the difference between your mainframe Z series and the AS/400 which of course is heavily pending. >> Also the i series. Oh yes. >> The i series. So you're conflating your system, which still do billions of dollars a year, by the way. >> Oh, absolutely. But that's not we're not seeing new banks launching and then building on top of IBM mainframe technology. I'm not disputing that mainframes were phenomenal. They were, I just don't see them as the future and I don't see a cloud story. >> Only a cloud live your mainframe related smack talk. That's the important thing that we're getting to here. All right, we move-- >> I'm hoping there's an announcement from CloudHealth by VMware that they also will now support mainframe analytics as well as traditional cloud. >> I'll look into that. >> Excellent. >> We're moving on to the lightning rounds. Each debater in this round is only going to get 60 seconds for their opening argument and then 30 seconds for a rebuttal. We're going to hit some really, really big important questions here like this first one, which is who deserves to sit on the Iron Throne at the end of "Game of Thrones?" I've been told that Corey has never seen this TV show so I'm very interested to hear him argue for Sansa. But let's Sansa Stark, let's hear Stu go first with his argument for Jon Snow. Stu one minute on the clock, go. >> All right audience let's hear it from the king of the north first of all. Nothing better than Jon Snow. He made the ultimate sacrifice. He killed his love to save Westeros from clear destruction because Khaleesi had gone mad. So Corey is going to say something like it's time for the women to do this but it was a woman she went mad. She started burning the place down and Jon Snow saved it so it only makes sense that he should have done it. Everyone knows it was a travesty that he was sent back to the Wall, and to just wander the wild. So absolutely Jon Snow vote for King of the North. >> Compelling arguments. Corey, why should Sansa Stark sit on the throne? Never having seen the show I've just heard bits and pieces about it and all involves things like bloody slaughters, for example, the AWS partner Expo right before the keynote is best known as AWS red wedding. We take a look at that across the board and not having seen it, I don't know the answer to this question, but how many of the folks who are in positions of power we're in fact mediocre white dudes and here we have Stu advocating for yet another one. Sure, this is a lightning round of a fun event but yes, we should continue to wind up selecting this mediocre white person has many parallels in terms of power, et cetera, politics, current tech industry as a whole. I think she's right we absolutely should give someone with a look like this a potential opportunity to see what they can do instead. >> Ouch, Stu 30 seconds rebuttal. >> Look, I would just give a call out to the women in the audience and say, don't you want Jon Snow to be king? >> I also think it's quite bold of Corey to say that he looks like Kit Harington. Corey, any last words? >> I think that it sad you think Stu was running for office at this point because he's become everyone's least favorite animal, a panda bear. >> Fire. All right, so on to the next question. This one also very important near and dear to my heart personally, is a hot dog a sandwich. Corey you'll be arguing no, Stu will be arguing yes. I must also add this important disclaimer that these assignments are made by me and might not reflect the actual views of the debaters here so Corey, you're up first. Why is a hot dog not a sandwich? >> Because you'll get punched in the face if you go to a deli of any renown and order a hot dog. That is not what they serve there. They wind up having these famous delicatessen in New York they have different sandwiches named after different celebrities. I shudder to think of the deadly insult that naming a hot dog after a celebrity would be to that not only celebrity in some cases also the hot dog too. If you take a look and you want to get sandwiches for lunch? Sure. What are we having catered for this event? Sandwiches. You show up and you see a hot dog, you're looking around the hot dog to find the rest of the sandwich. Now while it may check all of the boxes for a technical definition of what a sandwich is, as I'm sure Stu will boringly get into, it's not what people expect, there's a matter of checking the actual boxes, and then delivering what customers actually want. It's why you can let your product roadmap be guided by cart by customers or by Gartner but rarely both. >> Wow, that one hurts. Stu, why is the hot dog a sandwich? >> Yeah so like Corey, I'm sorry that you must not have done some decent traveling 'cause I'm glad you brought up the definition because I'm not going to bore you with yes, there's bread and there's meat and there's toppings and everything else like that but there are some phenomenal hot dogs out there. I traveled to Iceland a few years ago, and there's a little hot dog stand out there that's been there for over 40 or 50 years. And it's one of the top 10 culinary experience I put in. And I've been to Michelin star restaurants. You go to Chicago and any local will be absolutely have to try our creation. There are regional hot dogs. There are lots of solutions there and so yeah, of course you don't go to a deli. Of course if you're going to the deli for takeout and you're buying meats, they do sell hot dogs, Corey, it's just not the first thing that you're going to order on the menu. So I think you're underselling the hot dog. Whether you are a child and grew up and like eating nothing more than the mustard or ketchup, wherever you ate on it, or if you're a world traveler, and have tried some of the worst options out there. There are a lot of options for hot dogs so hot dog, sandwich, culinary delight. >> Stu, don't think we didn't hear that pun. I'm not sure if that counts for or against you, but Corey 30 seconds rebuttal. >> In the last question, you were agitating for putting a white guy back in power. Now you're sitting here arguing that, "Oh some of my best friend slash meals or hot dogs." Yeah, I think we see what you're putting down Stu and it's not pretty, it's really not pretty and I think people are just going to start having to ask some very pointed, delicate questions. >> Tough words to hear Stu. Close this out or rebuttal. >> I'm going to take the high road, Rachel and leave that where it stands. >> I think that is smart. All right, next question. Tabs versus spaces. Stu, you're going to argue for tabs, Corey, you're going to argue for spaces just to make this fun. Stu, 60 seconds on the clock, you're up first. Why are tabs the correct approach? >> First of all, my competitor here really isn't into pop culture. So he's probably not familiar with the epic Silicon Valley argument over this discussion. So, Corey, if you could explain the middle of algorithm, we will be quite impressed but since you don't, we'll just have to go with some of the technology first. Looks, developers, we want to make things simple on you. Tabs, they're faster to do they take up less memory. Yes, they aren't quite as particular as using spaces but absolutely, they get the job done and it is important to just, focus on productivity, I believe that the conversation as always, the less code you can write, the better and therefore, if you don't have to focus on exactly how many spaces and you can just simplify with the tabs, you're gona get close enough for most of the job. And it is easier to move forward and focus on the real work rather than some pedantic discussion as to whether one thing is slightly more efficient than the other. >> Great points Stu. Corey, why is your pedantic approach better? >> No one is suggesting you sit there and whack the spacebar four times or eight times you hit the Tab key, but your editor should be reasonably intelligent enough to expand that. At that point, you have now set up a precedent where in other cases, other parts of your codebase you're using spaces because everyone always does. And that winds up in turn, causing a weird dissonance you'll see a bunch of linters throwing issues if you use tabs as a direct result. Now the wrong answer is, of course, and I think Steve will agree with me both in the same line. No one is ever in favor of that. But I also want to argue with Stu over his argument about "Oh, it saves a little bit of space "is the reason one should go with tabs instead." Sorry, that argument said bye bye a long time ago, and that time was the introduction of JavaScript, where it takes many hundreds of Meg's of data to wind up building hello world. Yeah, at that point optimization around small character changes are completely irrelevant. >> Stu, rebuttal? >> Yeah, I didn't know that Corey did not try to defend that he had any idea what Silicon Valley was, or any of the references in there. So Rachel, we might have to avoid any other pop culture references. We know Corey just looks at very specific cloud services and can't have fun with some of the broader themes there. >> You're right my mistake Stu. Corey, any last words? >> It's been suggested that whole middle out seen on the whiteboard was came from a number of conversations I used to have with my co-workers as in people who were sitting in the room with me watching that episode said, Oh my God, I've been in the room while you had this debate with your friend and I will not name here because they at least still strive to remain employable. Yeah, it's, I understand the value in the picking these fights, we could have gone just as easily with vi versus Emacs, AWS versus Azure, or anything else that you really care to pick a fight with. But yeah, this is exactly the kind of pedantic fight that everyone loves to get involved with, which is why I walked a different path and pick other ridiculous arguments. >> Speaking of those ridiculous arguments that brings us to our last debate topic of the day, Corey you are probably best known for your strong feelings about the pronunciation of the acronym for Amazon Machine Image. I will not be saying how I think it is pronounced. We're going to have you argue each. Stu, you're going to argue that the acronym Amazon Machine Image should be pronounced to rhyme with butterfly. Corey, you'll be arguing that it rhymes with mommy. Stu, rhymes with butterfly. Let's hear it, 60 seconds on the clock. >> All right, well, Rachel, first of all, I wish I could go to the videotape because I have clear video evidence from a certain Corey Quinn many times arguing why AMI is the proper way to pronounce this, but it is one of these pedantic arguments, is it GIF or GIF? Sometimes you go back and you say, Okay, well, there's the way that the community did it. And the way that oh wait, the founder said it was a certain way. So the only argument against AMI, Jeff Barr, when he wrote about the history of all of the blogging that he's done from AWS said, I wish when I had launched the service that I pointed out the correct pronunciation, which I won't even deem to talk it because the community has agreed by and large that AMI is the proper way to pronounce it. And boy, the tech industry is rific on this kind of thing. Is it SQL and no SQL and you there's various ways that we butcher these constantly. So AMI, almost everyone agrees and the lead champion for this argument, of course is none other than Corey Quinn. >> Well, unfortunately today Corey needs to argue the opposite. So Corey, why does Amazon Machine Image when pronounce as an acronym rhyme with mommy? >> Because the people who built it at Amazon say that it is and an appeal to authorities generally correct when the folks built this. AWS has said repeatedly that they're willing to be misunderstood for long periods of time. And this is one of those areas in which they have been misunderstood by virtually the entire industry, but they are sticking to their guns and continuing to wind up advocating for AMI as the correct pronunciation. But I'll take it a step further. Let's take a look at the ecosystem companies. Whenever Erica Brescia, who is now the COO and GitHub, but before she wound up there, she was the founder of Bitnami. And whenever I call it Bitn AMI she looks like she is barely successfully restraining herself from punching me right in the mouth for that pronunciation of the company. Clearly, it's Bitnami named after the original source AMI, which is what the proper term pronunciation of the three letter acronym becomes. Fight me Stu. >> Interesting. Interesting argument, Stu 30 seconds, rebuttal. >> Oh, the only thing he can come up with is that, you take the word Bitnami and because it has that we know that things sound very different if you put a prefix or a suffix, if you talk to the Kubernetes founders, Kubernetes should be coop con but the people that run the conference, say it cube con so there are lots of debates between the people that create it and the community. I in general, I'm going to vote with the community most of the time. Corey, last words on this topic 'cause I know you have very strong feelings about it. >> I'm sorry, did Stu just say Kubernetes and its community as bastions of truth when it comes to pronouncing anything correctly? Half of that entire conference is correcting people's pronunciation of Kubernetes, Kubernetes, Kubernetes, Kubernetes and 15 other mispronunciations that they will of course yell at you for but somehow they're right on this one. All right. >> All right, everyone, I hope you've been voting all along for who you think is winning each round, 'cause this has been a tough call. But I would like to say that's a wrap for today. big thank you to our debaters. You've been very good sports, even when I've made you argue for against things that clearly are hurting you deep down inside, we're going to take a quick break and tally all the votes. And we're going to announce a winner up on the Zoom Q and A. So go to the top of your screen, Click on Zoom Q and A to join us and hear the winner announced and also get a couple minutes to chat live with Corey and Stu. Thanks again for attending this session. And thank you again, Corey and Stu. It's been The Great Cloud Debate. All right, so each round I will announce the winner and then we're going to announce the overall winner. Remember that Corey and Stu are playing not just for bragging rights and ownership of all of the internet for the next 24 hours, but also for lunch to be donated to their local hospital. Corey is having lunch donated to the California Pacific Medical Centre. And Stu is having lunch donated to Boston Medical Centre. All right, first up round one multicloud versus monocloud. Stu, you were arguing for multicloud, Corey, you were arguing for one cloud. Stu won that one by 64% of the vote. >> The vendor fix was in. >> Yeah, well, look, CloudHealth started all in AWS by supporting customers across those environments. So and Corey you basically conceded it because we said multicloud does not mean we evenly split things up. So you got to work on those two skills, buddy, 'cause, absolutely you just handed the victory my way. So thank you so much and thank you to the audience for understanding multicloud is where we are today, and unfortunately, it's where we're gonnao be in the future. So as a whole, we're going to try to make it better 'cause it is, as Corey and I both agree, a bit of a mess right now. >> Don't get too cocky. >> One of those days the world is going to catch up with me and realize that ad hominem is not a logical fallacy so much as it is an excellent debating skill. >> Well, yeah, I was going to say, Stu, don't get too cocky because round two serverless versus containers. Stu you argued for containers, Corey you argued for serverless. Corey you won that one with 65, 66 or most percent of the vote. >> You can't fight the future. >> Yeah, and as you know Rachel I'm a big fan of serverless. I've been to the serverless comp, I actually just published an excellent interview with Liberty Mutual and what they're doing with serverless. So love the future, it's got a lot of maturity to deliver on the promise that it has today but containers isn't going anyway or either so. >> So, you're not sad that you lost that one. Got it, good concession speech. Next one up was cloud wars specifically Google. is Google a real contender in the clouds? Stu, you were arguing yes they are. Corey, you were arguing no they aren't. Corey also won this round was 72% of the votes. >> Yeah, it's one of those things where at some point, it's sort of embarrassing if you miss a six inch pot. So it's nice that that didn't happen in this case. >> Yeah, so Corey, is this the last week that we have any competitors to AWS? Is that what we're saying? And we all accept our new overlords. Thank you so much, Corey. >> Well I hope not, my God, I don't know what to be an Amazonian monoculture anymore than I do anyone else. Competition makes all of us better. But again, we're seeing a lot of anti competitive behaviour. For example, took until this year for Microsoft to finally make calculator uninstallable and I trust concerned took a long time to work its way of course. >> Yeah, and Corey, I think everyone is listening to what you've been saying about what Google's doing with Google Meet and forcing that us when we make our pieces there. So definitely there's some things that Google culture, we'd love them to clean up. And that's one of the things that's really held back Google's enterprise budget is that advertised advertising driven culture. So we will see. We are working hand-- >> That was already opted out of Hangouts, how do we fix it? We call it something else that they haven't opted out of yet. >> Hey, but Corey, I know you're looking forward to at least two months of weekly Google live stuff starting this summer. So we'll have a lot of time to talk about google. >> Let's not kid ourselves they're going to cancel it halfway through. (Stu laughs) >> Boys, I thought we didn't have any more smack talk left in you but clearly you do. So, all right, moving on. Next slide. This is the last question that we did in the main part of the debate. IBM Cloud. What about IBM Cloud was the question, Stu, you were pro, Corey you were con. Corey, you won this one again with 62% of the vote and for the main. >> It wasn't just me, IBM Cloud also won. The problem is that competition was oxymoron of the day. >> I don't know Rachel, I thought this one had a real shot as to putting where IBM fits. I thought we had a good discussion there. It seemed like some of the early voting was going my way but it just went otherwise. >> It did. We had some last minute swings in these polls. They were going one direction they rapidly swung another it's a fickle crowd today. So right now we've got Corey with three points Stu with one but really the lightning round anyone's game. They got very close here. The next question, lightning round question one, was "Game of Thrones" who deserves to sit on the Iron Throne? Stu was arguing for Jon Snow, Corey was arguing for Sansa Stark also Corey has never seen Game of Thrones. This was shockingly close with Stu at 51.5% of the vote took the crown on this King of the North Stu. >> Well, I'm thrilled and excited that King of the North pulled things out because it would have been just a complete embarrassment if I lost to Corey on this question. >> It would. >> It was the right answer, and as you said, he had no idea what he's talking about, which, unfortunately is how he is on most of the rest of it. You just don't realize that he doesn't know what he's talking about. 'Cause he uses all those fast words and discussion points. >> Well, thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. Now, I am completely crestfallen as to the results of this question about a thing I've never seen and could not possibly care less about not going in my favor. I will someday managed to get over this. >> I'm glad you can really pull yourself together and keep on going with life, Corey it's inspiring. All right, next question. Was the lightning round question two is a hot dog a sandwich? Stu, you were arguing yes. Corey, you were arguing no. Corey landslide, you won this 75% of the vote. >> It all comes down to customer expectations. >> Yeah. >> Just disappointment. Disappointment. >> All right, next question tabs versus spaces. Another very close one. Stu, what were you arguing for Stu? >> I was voting tabs. >> Tabs, yeah. And Corey, you were arguing spaces. This did not turn out the way I expected. So Stu you lost this by slim margin Corey 53% of the vote. You won with spaces. >> Yep. And I use spaces in my day to day life. So that's a position I can actually believe in. >> See, I thought I was giving you the opposite point of view there. I mistook you for the correct answer, in my opinion, which is tabs. >> Well, it is funnier to stalk me on Twitter and look what I have to there than on GitHub where I just completely commit different kinds of atrocities. So I don't blame you. >> Caught that pun there. All right, the last rounds. Speaking of atrocities, AMI, Amazon Machine Image is it pronounced AMI or AMI? >> I better not have won this one. >> So Stu you were arguing that this is pronounced AMI rhymes with butterfly. Corey, you were arguing that it's pronounced AMI like mommy. Any guesses under who won this? >> It better be Stu. >> It was a 50, 50 split complete tie. So no points to anyone. >> For your complete and utterly failed on this because I should have won in a landslide. My entire argument was based on every discussion you've had on this. So, Corey I think they're just voting for you. So I'm really surprised-- >> I think at this point it shows I'm such a skilled debater that I could have also probably brought you to a standstill taking the position that gravity doesn't exist. >> You're a master of few things, Corey. Usually it's when you were dressed up nicely and I think they like the t-shirt. It's a nice t-shirt but not how we're usually hiding behind the attire. >> Truly >> Well. >> Clothes don't always make a demand. >> Gentlemen, I would like to say overall our winner today with five points is Corey. Congratulations, Corey. >> Thank you very much. It's always a pleasure to mop the floor with you Stu. >> Actually I was going to ask Stu to give the acceptance speech for you, Corey and, Corey, if you could give a few words of concession, >> Oh, that's a different direction. Stu, we'll start with you, I suppose. >> Yeah, well, thank you to the audience. Obviously, you voted for me without really understanding that I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm a loudmouth on Twitter. I just create a bunch of arguments out there. I'm influential for reasons I don't really understand. But once again, thank you for your votes so much. >> Yeah, it's always unfortunate to wind up losing a discussion with someone and you wouldn't consider it losing 'cause most of the time, my entire shtick is that I sit around and talk to people who know what they're talking about. And I look smart just by osmosis sitting next to them. Video has been rough on me. So I was sort of hoping that I'd be able to parlay that into something approaching a victory. But sadly, that hasn't worked out quite so well. This is just yet another production brought to you by theCube which shut down my original idea of calling it a bunch of squares. (Rachael laughs) >> All right, well, on that note, I would like to say thank you both Stu and Corey. I think we can close out officially the debate, but we can all stick around for a couple more minutes in case any fans have questions for either of them or want to get them-- >> Find us a real life? Yeah. >> Yeah, have a quick Zoom fight. So thanks, everyone, for attending. And thank you Stu, thank you Corey. This has been The Great Cloud Debate.

For Las Vegas, it's the cube covering vm world 2018, brought to you by vm ware and its ecosystem partners. Ladies and gentlemen, Vm ware would like to thank it's global diamond sponsors and it's platinum sponsors for vm world 2018 with over 125,000 members globally. The vm ware User Group connects via vmware customers, partners and employees to vm ware, information resources, knowledge sharing, and networking. To learn more, visit the [inaudible] booth in the solutions exchange or the hemoglobin gene vm village become a part of the community today. This presentation includes forward looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially as a result of various risk factors including those described in the 10 k's 10 q's and k's vm ware. Files with the SEC. Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome Pat Gelsinger. Welcome to vm world. Good morning. Let's try that again. Good morning and I'll just say it is great to be here with you today. I'm excited about the sixth year of being CEO. When it was on this stage six years ago were Paul Maritz handed me the clicker and that's the last he was seen. We have 20,000 plus here on site in Vegas and uh, you know, on behalf of everyone at Vm ware, you know, we're just thrilled that you would be with us and it's a joy and a thrill to be able to lead such a community. We have a lot to share with you today and we really think about it as a community. You know, it's my 23,000 plus employees, the souls that I'm responsible for, but it's our partners, the thousands and we kicked off our partner day yesterday, but most importantly, the vm ware community is centered on you. You know, we're very aware of this event would be nothing without you and our community and the role that we play at vm wares to build these cool breakthrough innovations that enable you to do incredible things. You're the ones who take our stuff and do amazing things. You altogether. We have truly changed the world over the last two decades and it is two decades. You know, it's our anniversary in 1998, the five people that started a vm ware, right. You know, it was, it was exactly 20 years ago and we're just thrilled and I was thinking about this over the weekend and it struck me, you know, anniversary, that's like old people, you know, we're here, we're having our birthday and it's a party, right? We can't have a drink yet, but next year. Yeah. We're 20 years old. Right. We can do that now. And I'll just say the culture of this community is something that truly is amazing and in my 38 years, 38 years in tech, that sort of sounds like I'm getting old or something, but the passion, the loyalty, almost a cult like behavior that we see in this team of people to us is simply thrilling. And you know, we put together a little video to sort of summarize the 20 years and some of that history and some of the unique and quirky aspects of our culture. Let's watch that now. We knew we had something unique and then we demonstrated that what was unique was also some reasons that we love vm ware, you know, like the community out there. So great. The technology I love it. Ware is solid and much needed. Literally. I do love Vmr. It's awesome. Super Awesome. Pardon? There's always someone that wants to listen and learn from us and we've learned so much from them as well. And we reached out to vm ware to help us start building. What's that future world look like? Since we're doing really cutting edge stuff, there's really no better people to call and Bmr has been known for continuous innovation. There's no better way to learn how to do new things in it than being with a company that's at the forefront of technology. What do you think? Don't you love that commitment? Hey Ashley, you know, but in the prep sessions for this, I thought, boy, what can I do to take my commitment to the next level? And uh, so, uh, you know, coming in a couple days early, I went to down the street to bad ass tattoo. So it's time for all of us to take our commitment up level and sometimes what happens in Vegas, you take home. Thank you. Vm Ware has had this unique role in the industry over these 20 years, you know, and for that we've seen just incredible things that have happened over this period of time and it's truly extraordinary what we've accomplished together. And you know, as we think back, you know, what vm ware has uniquely been able to do is I'll say bridge across know and we've seen time and again that we see these areas of innovation emerging and rapidly move forward. But then as they become utilized by our customers, they create this natural tension of what business wants us flexibility to use across these silos of innovation. And from the start of our history, we have collectively had this uncanny ability to bridge across these cycles of innovation. You know, an act one was clearly the server generation. You know, it may seem a little bit, uh, ancient memory now, but you remember you used to walk into your data center and it looked like the loove the museum of it passed right? You know, and you had your old p series and your z series in your sparks and your pas and your x86 cluster and Yo, it had to decide, well, which architecture or am I going to deploy and run this on? And we bridged across and that was the magic of Esx. You don't want to just changed the industry when that occurred. And I sort of called the early days of Esx and vsphere. It was like the intelligence test. If you weren't using it, you fail because Yup. Servers, 10 servers become one months, become minutes. I still have people today who come up to me and they reflect on their first experience of vsphere or be motion and it was like a holy moment in their life and in their careers. Amazing and act to the Byo d, You know, can we bridge across these devices and users wanted to be able to come in and say, I have my device and I'm productive on it. I don't want to be forced to use the corporate standard. And maybe more than anything was the power of the iphone that was introduced, the two, seven, and suddenly every employee said this is exciting and compelling. I want to use it so I can be more productive when I'm here. Bye. Jody was the rage and again it was a tough challenge and once again vm ware helped to bridge across the surmountable challenge. And clearly our workspace one community today is clearly bridging across these silos and not just about managing devices but truly enabling employee engagement and productivity. Maybe act three was the network and you know, we think about the network, you know, for 30 years we were bound to this physical view of what the network would be an in that network. We are bound to specific protocols. We had to wait months for network upgrades and firewall rules. Once every two weeks we'd upgrade them. If you had a new application that needed a firewall rule, sorry, you know, come back next month we'll put, you know, deep frustration among developers and ceos. Everyone was ready to break the chains. And that's exactly what we did. An NSX and Nice Sierra. The day we acquired it, Cisco stock drops and the industry realizes the networking has changed in a fundamental way. It will never be the same again. Maybe act for was this idea of cloud migration. And if we were here three years ago, it was student body, right to the public cloud. Everything is going there. And I remember I was meeting with a cio of federal cio and he comes up to me and he says, I tried for the last two years to replatform my 200 applications I got to done, you know, and all of a sudden that was this. How do I do cloud migration and the effective and powerful way. Once again, we bridged across, we brought these two worlds together and eliminated this, uh, you know, this gap between private and public cloud. And we'll talk a lot more about that today. You know, maybe our next act is what we'll call the multicloud era. You know, because today in a recent survey by Deloitte said that the average business today is using eight public clouds and expected to become 10 plus public clouds. And you know, as you're managing different tools, different teams, different architectures, those solution, how do you, again bridge across, and this is what we will do in the multicloud era, we will help our community to bridge across and take advantage of these powerful cycles of innovation that are going on, but be able to use them across a consistent infrastructure and operational environment. And we'll have a lot more to talk about on this topic today. You know, and maybe the last item to bridge across maybe the most important, you know, people who are profit. You know, too often we think about this as an either or question. And as a business leader, I'm are worried about the people or the And Milton Friedman probably set us up for this issue decades ago when he said, planet, right? the sole purpose of a business is to make profits. You want to create a multi-decade dilemma, right? For business leaders, could I have both people and profits? Could I do well and do good? And particularly for technology, I think we don't have a choice to think about these separately. We are permeating every aspect of business. And Society, we have the responsibility to do both and have all the things that vm ware has accomplished. I think this might be the one that I'm most proud of over, you know, w we have demonstrated by vsphere and the hypervisor alone that we have saved over 540 million tons of co two emissions. That is what you have done. Can you believe that? Five hundred 40 million tons is enough to have 68 percent of all households for a year. Wow. Thank you for what you have done. Thank you. Or another translation of that. Is that safe enough to drive a trillion miles and the average car or you could go to and from Jupiter just in case that was in your itinerary a thousand times. Right? He was just incredible. What we have done and as a result of that, and I'll say we were thrilled to accept this recognition on behalf of you and what you have done. You know, vm were recognized as number 17 in the fortune. Change the world list last week. And we really view it as accepting this honor on behalf of what you have done with our products and technology tech as a force for good. We believe that fundamentally that is our opportunity, if not our obligation, you know, fundamentally tech is neutral, you know, we together must shape it for good. You know, the printing press by Gutenberg in 1440, right? It was used to create mass education and learning materials also can be used for extremist propaganda. The technology itself is neutral. Our ecosystem has a critical role to play in shaping technology as a force for good. You know, and as we think about that tomorrow, we'll have a opportunity to have a very special guest and I really encourage you to be here, be on time tomorrow morning on the stage and you know, Sanjay's a session, we'll have Malala, Nobel Peace Prize winner and fourth will be a bit of extra security as you come in and you understand that. And I just encourage you not to be late because we see this tech being a force for good in everything that we do at vm ware. And I hope you'll enjoy, I'm quite looking forward to the session tomorrow. Now as we think about the future. I like to put it in this context, the superpowers of tech know and you know, 38 years in the industry, you know, I am so excited because I think everything that we've done over the last four decades is creating a foundation that allows us to do more and go faster together. We're unlocking game, changing opportunities that have not been available to any people in the history of humanity. And we have these opportunities now and I, and I think about these four cloud, you have unimaginable scale. You'll literally with your Amex card, you can go rent, you know, 10,000 cores for $100 per hour. Or if you have Michael's am ex card, we can rent a million cores for $10,000 an hour. Thanks Michael. But we also know that we're in many ways just getting started and we have tremendous issues to bridge across and compatible clouds, mobile unprecedented scale. Literally, your application can reach half the humans on the planet today. But we also know that five percent, the lowest five percent of humanity or the other half of humanity, they're still in the lower income brackets, less than five percent penetrated. And we know that we have customer examples that are using mobile phones to raise impoverished farmers in Africa, out of poverty just by having a smart phone with proper crop, the information field and whether a guidance that one tool alone lifting them out of poverty. Ai knows, you know, I really love the topic of ai in 1986. I'm the chief architect of the 80 46. Some of you remember what that was. Yeah, I, you know, you're, you're my folk, right? Right. And for those of you who don't, it was a real important chip at the time. And my marketing manager comes running into my office and he says, Pat, pat, we must make the 46 a great ai chip. This is 1986. What happened? Nothing an AI is today, a 30 year overnight success because the algorithms, the data have gotten so much bigger that we can produce results, that we can bring intelligence to everything. And we're seeing dramatic breakthroughs in areas like healthcare, radiology, you know, new drugs, diagnosis tools, and designer treatments. We're just scratching the surface, but ai has so many gaps, yet we don't even in many cases know why it works. Right? And we'll call that explainable ai and edge and Iot. We're connecting the physical and the digital worlds was never before possible. We're bridging technology into every dimension of human progress. And today we're largely hooking up things, right? We have so much to do yet to make them intelligent. Network secured, automated, the patch, bringing world class it to Iot, but it's not just that these are super powers. We really see that each and each one of them is a super power in and have their own right, but they're making each other more powerful as well. Cloud enables mobile conductivity. Mobile creates more data, more data makes the AI better. Ai Enables more edge use cases and more edge requires more cloud to store the data and do the computing right? They're reinforcing each other. And with that, we know that we are speeding up and these superpowers are reshaping every aspect of society from healthcare to education, the transportation, financial institutions. This is how it all comes together. Now, just a simple example, how many of you have ever worn a hardhat? Yeah, Yo. Pretty boring thing. And it has one purpose, right? You know, keep things from smacking me in the here's the modern hardhat. It's a complete heads up display with ar head. Well, vr capabilities that give the worker safety or workers or factory workers or supply people the ability to see through walls to understand what's going on inside of the equipment. I always wondered when I was a kid to have x Ray Vision, you know, some of my thoughts weren't good about why I wanted it, but you know, I wanted to. Well now you can have it, you know, but imagine in this environment, the complex application that sits behind it. You know, you're accessing maybe 50 year old building plants, right? You're accessing HVAC systems, but modern ar and vr capabilities and new containerized displays. You'll think about that application. You know, John Gage famously said the network is the computer pat today says the application is now a network and pretty typically a complicated one, you know, and this is the vm ware vision is to make that kind of environment realizable in every aspect of our business and community and we simply have been on this journey, any device, any application, any cloud with intrinsic security. And this vision has been consistent for those of you who have been joining us for a number of years. You've seen this picture, but it's been slowly evolving as we've worked in piece by piece to refine and extend this vision, you know, and for it, we're going to walk through and use this as the compass for our discussion today as we walk through our conversation. And you know, we're going to start by a focus on any cloud. And as we think about this cloud topic, you know, we see it as a multicloud world hybrid cloud, public cloud, but increasingly seeing edge and telco becoming clouds in and have their own right. And we're not gonna spend time on it today, but this area of Telco to the is an enormous opportunity for us in our community. You know, data centers and cloud today are over 80 percent virtualized. The Telco network is less than 10 percent virtualized. Wow. An industry that's almost as big as our industry entirely unvirtualized, although the technologies we've created here can be applied over here and Telco and we have an enormous buildout coming with five g and environments emerging. What an opportunity for us, a virgin market right next to us and we're getting some early mega winds in this area using the technologies that you have helped us cure rate than the So we're quite excited about this topic area as well. market. So let's look at this full view of the multicloud. Any cloud journey. And we see that businesses are on a multicloud journey, you know, and today we see this fundamentally in these two paths, a hybrid cloud and a public cloud. And these paths are complimentary and coexisting, but today, each is being driven by unique requirements and unique teams. Largely the hybrid cloud is being driven by it. And operations, the public cloud being driven more by developers and line of business requirements and as some multicloud environment. So how do we deliver upon that and for that, let's start by digging in on the hybrid cloud aspect of this and as we think about the hybrid cloud, we've been talking about this subject for a number of years and I want to give a very specific and crisp definition. You're the hybrid cloud is the public cloud and the private cloud cooperating with consistent infrastructure and consistent operations simply put seamless path to and from the cloud that my workloads don't care if it's here or there. I'm able to run them in a agile, scalable, flexible, efficient manner across those two environments, whether it's my data center or someone else's, I can bring them together to make that work is the magic of the Vm ware Cloud Foundation. The vm ware Cloud Foundation brings together computer vsphere and the core of why we are here, but combines with that networking storage delivered through a layer of management and automation. The rule of the cloud is ruthlessly automate everything. We laid out this vision of the software defined data center seven years ago and we've been steadfastly working on this vision and vm ware. Cloud Foundation provides this consistent infrastructure and operations with integrated lifecycle management automation. Patching the m ware cloud foundation is the simplest path to the hybrid cloud and the fastest way to get vm ware cloud foundation is hyperconverged infrastructure, you know, and with this we've combined integrated then validated hardware and as a building block inside of this we have validated hardware, the v Sand ready environments. We have integrated appliances and cloud delivered infrastructure, three ways that we deliver that integrate integrated hyperconverged infrastructure solution. And we have by far the broadest ecosystem of partners to do it. A broad set of the sand ready nodes from essentially everybody in the industry. Secondly, we have integrated appliances, the extract of vxrail that we have co engineered with our partners at Dell technology and today in fact Dell is releasing the power edge servers, a major step in blade servers that again are going to be powering vxrail and vxrack systems and we deliver hyperconverged infrastructure through a broader set of Vm ware cloud partners as well. At the heart of the hyperconverged infrastructure is v San and simply put, you know, be San has been the engine that's just been moving rapidly to take over the entire integration of compute and storage and expand to more and more areas. We have incredible momentum over 15,000 customers for v San Today and for those of you who joined us, we say thank you for what you have done with this product today. Really amazing you with 50 percent of the global 2000 using it know vm ware. V San Vxrail are clearly becoming the standard for how hyperconverge is done in the industry. Our cloud partner programs over 500 cloud partners are using ulv sand in their solution, you know, and finally the largest in Hci software revenue. Simply put the sand is the software defined storage technology of choice for the industry and we're seeing that customers are putting this to work in amazing ways. Vm Ware and Dell technologies believe in tech as a force for good and that it can have a major impact on the quality of life for every human on the planet and particularly for the most underdeveloped parts of the world. Those that live on less than $2 per day. In fact that this moment 5 billion people worldwide do not have access to modern affordable surgery. Mercy ships is working hard to change the global surgery crisis with greater than 400 volunteers. Mercy ships operates the largest NGO hospital ship delivering free medical care to the poorest of the poor in Africa. Let's see from them now. When the ship shows up to port, literally people line up for days to receive state of the art life, sane changing life saving surgeries, tumor site limbs, disease blindness, birth defects, but not only that, the personnel are educating and training the local healthcare providers with new skills and infrastructure so they can care for their own. After the ship has left, mercy ships runs on Vm ware, a dell technology with VX rail, Dell Isilon data protection. We are the it platform for mercy ships. Mercy ships is now building their next generation ship called global mercy, which were more than double. It's lifesaving capacity. It's the largest charity hospital ever. It will go live in 20 slash 20 serving Africa and I personally plan on being there for its launch. It is truly amazing what they are doing with our technology. Thanks. So we see this picture of the hybrid cloud. We've talked about how we do that for the private cloud. So let's look over at the public cloud and let's dig into this a little bit more deeply. You know, we're taking this incredible power of the Vm ware Cloud Foundation and making it available for the leading cloud providers in the world and with that, the partnership that we announced almost two years ago with Amazon and on the stage last year, we announced their first generation of products, no better example of the hybrid cloud. And for that it's my pleasure to bring to stage my friend, my partner, the CEO of aws. Please welcome Andy Jassy. Thank you andy. You know, you honor us with your presence, you know, and it really is a pleasure to be able to come in front of this audience and talk about what our teams have accomplished together over the last, uh, year. Yo, can you give us some perspective on that, Andy and what customers are doing with it? Well, first of all, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. It's great to be here with all of you. Uh, you know, the offering that we have together customers because it allows them to use the same software they've been using to again, where cloud and aws is very appealing to manage their infrastructure for years to be able to deploy it an aws and we see a lot of customer momentum and a lot of customers using it. You see it in every imaginable vertical business segment in transportation. You see it with stagecoach and media and entertainment. You see it with discovery communications in education, Mit and Caltech and consulting and accenture and cognizant and dxc you see in every imaginable vertical business segment and the number of customers using the offering is doubling every quarter. So people were really excited about it and I think that probably the number one use case we see so far, although there are a lot of them, is customers who are looking to migrate on premises applications to the cloud. And a good example of that is mit. We're there right now in the process of migrating. In fact, they just did migrate 3000 vms from their data centers to Vm ware cloud native us. And this would have taken years before to do in the past, but they did it in just three months. It was really spectacular and they're just a fun company to work with and the team there. But we're also seeing other use cases as well. And you're probably the second most common example is we'll say on demand capabilities for things like disaster recovery. We have great examples of customers you that one in particular, his brakes, right? Urban in those. The brings security trucks and they all armored trucks coming by and they had a critical need to retire a secondary data center that they were using, you know, for Dr. so we quickly built to Dr Protection Environment for $600. Bdms know they migrated their mission critical workloads and Wallah stable and consistent Dr and now they're eliminating that site and looking for other migrations as well. The rate of 10 to 15 percent. It was just a great deal. One of the things I believe Andy, he'll customers should never spend capital, uh, Dr ever again with this kind of capability in place. That is just that game changing, you know, and you know, obviously we've been working on expanding our reach, you know, we promised to make the service available a year ago with the global footprint of Amazon and now we've delivered on that promise and in fact today or yesterday if you're an ozzie right down under, we announced in Sydney, uh, as well. And uh, now we're in US Europe and in APJ. Yeah. It's really, I mean it's very exciting. Of course Australia is one of the most virtualized places in the world and, and it's pretty remarkable how fast European customers have started using the offering to and just the quarter that's been out there and probably have the many requests customers has had. And you've had a, probably the number one request has been that we make the offering available in all the regions. The aws has regions and I can tell you by the end of 2019 will largely be there including with golf clubs and golf clap. You guys have been, that's been huge for you guys. Yeah. It's a government only region that we have that a lot of federal government workloads live in and we are pretty close together having the offering a fedramp authority to operate, which is a big deal on a game changer for governments because then there'll be able to use the familiar tools they use and vm ware not just to run their workloads on premises but also in the cloud as well with the data privacy requirements, security requirements they need. So it's a real game changer for government too. Yeah. And this you can see by the picture here basically before the end of next year, everywhere that you are and have an availability zone. We're going to be there running on data. Yup. Yeah. Let's get with it. Okay. We're a team go faster. Okay. You'll and you know, it's not just making it available, but this pace of innovation and you know, you guys have really taught us a few things in this respect and since we went live in the Oregon region, you know, we've been on a quarterly cadence of major releases and two was really about mission critical at scale and we added our second region. We added our hybrid cloud extension with m three. We moved the global rollout and we launched in Europe with m four. We really add a lot of these mission critical governance aspects started to attack all of the industry certifications and today we're announcing and five right. And uh, you know, with that, uh, I think we have this little cool thing you know, two of the most important priorities for that we're doing with ebs and storage. Yeah, we'll take, customers, our cost and performance. And so we have a couple of things to talk about today that we're bringing to you that I think hit both of those on a storage side. We've combined the elasticity of Amazon Elastic Block store or ebs with ware is Va v San and we've provided now a storage option that you'll be able to use that as much. It's very high capacity and much more cost effective and you'll start to see this initially on the Vm ware cloud. Native us are five instances which are compute instances, their memory optimized and so this will change the cost equation. You'll be able to use ebs by default and it'll be much more cost effective for storage or memory intensive workloads. Um, it's something that you guys have asked for. It's been very frequently requested it, it hits preview today. And then the other thing is that we've worked really hard together to integrate vm ware's Nsx along with aws direct neck to have a private even higher performance conductivity between on premises and the cloud. So very, very exciting new capabilities to show deep integration between the companies. Yeah. You know, in that aspect of the deep integration. So it's really been the thing that we committed to, you know, we have large engineering teams that are working literally every day. Right on bringing together and how do we fuse these platforms together at a deep and intimate way so that we can deliver new services just like elastic drs and the c and ebs really powerful, uh, capabilities and that pace of innovation continue. So next maybe. Um, maybe six. I don't know. We'll see. All right. You know, but we're continuing this toward pace of innovation, you know, completing all of the capabilities of Nsx. You'll full integration for all of the direct connect to capabilities. Really expanding that. You're only improving licensed capabilities on the platform. We'll be adding pks on top of for expanded developer a capabilities. So just. Oh, thank you. I, I think that was formerly known as Right, and y'all were continuing this pace of storage Chad. So anyway. innovation going forward, but I think we also have a few other things to talk about today. Andy. Yeah, I think we have some news that hopefully people here will be pretty excited about. We know we have a pretty big database business and aws and it's. It's both on the relational and on the nonrelational side and the business is billions of dollars in revenue for us and on the relational side. We have a service called Amazon relational database service or Amazon rds that we have hundreds of thousands of customers using because it makes it much easier for them to set up, operate and scale their databases and so many companies now are operating in hybrid mode and will be for a while and a lot of those customers have asked us, can you give us the ease of manageability of those databases but on premises. And so we talked about it and we thought about and we work with our partners at Vm ware and I'm excited to announce today, right now Amazon rds on Vm ware and so that will bring all the capabilities of Amazon rds to vm ware's customers for their on premises environments. And so what you'll be able to do is you'll be able to provision databases. You'll be able to scale the compute or the memory or the storage for those database instances. You'll be able to patch the operating system or database engines. You'll be able to create, read replicas to scale your database reads and you can deploy this rep because either on premises or an aws, you'll be able to deploy and high high availability configuration by replicating the data to different vm ware clusters. You'll be able to create online backups that either live on premises or an aws and then you'll be able to take all those databases and if you eventually want to move them to aws, you'll be able to do so rather easily. You have a pretty smooth path. This is going to be available in a few months. It will be available on Oracle sql server, sql postgresql and Maria DB. I think it's very exciting for our customers and I think it's also a good example of where we're continuing to deepen the partnership and listen to what customers want and then innovate on their behalf. Absolutely. Thank you andy. It is thrilling to see this and as we said, when we began the partnership, it was a deep integration of our offerings and our go to market, but also building this bi-directional hybrid highway to give customers the capabilities where they wanted cloud on premise, on premise to the cloud. It really is a unique partnership that we've built, the momentum we're feeling to our customer base and the cool innovations that we're doing. Andy, thank you so much for you Jordan Young, rural 20th. You guys appreciate it. Yeah, we really have just seen incredible momentum and as you might have heard from our earnings call that we just finished this. We finished the last quarter. We just really saw customer momentum here. Accelerating. Really exciting to see how customers are starting to really do the hybrid cloud at scale and with this we're just seeing that this vm ware cloud foundation available on Amazon available on premise. Very powerful, but it's not just the partnership with Amazon. We are thrilled to see the momentum of our Vm ware cloud provider program and this idea of the vm ware cloud providers has continued to gain momentum in the industry and go over five years. Right. This program has now accumulated more than 4,200 cloud partners in over 120 countries around the globe. It gives you choice, your local provider specialty offerings, some of your local trusted partners that you would have in giving you the greatest flexibility to choose from and cloud providers that meet your unique business requirements. And we launched last year a program called Vm ware cloud verified and this was saying you're the most complete embodiment of the Vm ware Cloud Foundation offering by our cloud partners in this program and this logo you know, allows you to that this provider has achieved the highest standard for cloud infrastructure and that you can scale and deliver your hybrid cloud and partnering with them. It know a particular. We've been thrilled to see the momentum that we've had with IBM as a huge partner and our business with them has grown extraordinarily rapidly and triple digits, but not just the customer count, which is now over 1700, but also in the depth of customers moving large portions of the workload. And as you see by the picture, we're very proud of the scope of our partnerships in a global basis. The highest standard of hybrid cloud for you, the Vm ware cloud verified partners. Now when we come back to this picture, you know we, you know, we're, we're growing in our definition of what the hybrid cloud means and through Vm Ware Cloud Foundation, we've been able to unify the private and the public cloud together as never before, but we're also seeing that many of you are interested in how do I extend that infrastructure further and farther and will simply call that the edge right? And how do we move data closer to where? How do we move data center resources and capacity closer to where the data's being generated at the operations need to be performed? Simply the edge and we'll dig into that a little bit more, but as we do that, what are the things that we offer today with what we just talked about with Amazon and our VCP p partners is that they can consume as a service this full vm ware Cloud Foundation, but today we're only offering that in the public cloud until project dimension of project dimension allows us to extend delivered as a service, private, public, and to the edge. Today we're announcing the tech preview, a project dimension Vm ware cloud foundation in a hyperconverged appliance. We're partnered deeply with Dell EMC, Lenovo for the first partners to bring this to the marketplace, built on that same proven infrastructure, a hybrid cloud control plane, so literally just like we're managing the Vm ware cloud today, we're able to do that for your on premise. You're small or remote office or your edge infrastructure through that exact same as a service management and control plane, a complete vm ware operated end to end environment. This is project dimension. Taking the vcf stack, the full vm ware cloud foundation stack, making an available in the cloud to the edge and on premise as well, a powerful solution operated by BM ware. This project dimension and project dimension allows us to have a fundamental building block in our approach to making customers even more agile, flexible, scalable, and a key component of our strategy as well. So let's click into that edge a little bit more and we think about the edge in the following layers, the compute edge, how do we get the data and operations and applications closer to where they need to be. If you remember last year I talked about this pendulum swinging of centralization and decentralization edge is a decentralization force. We're also excited that we're moving the edge of the devices as well and we're doing that in two ways. One with workspace, one for human optimized devices and the second is project pulse or Vm ware pulse. And today we're announcing pulse two point zero where you can consume it now as a service as well as with integrated security. And we've now scaled pulse to support 500 million devices. Isn't that incredible, right? I mean this is getting a scale. Billions and billions and finally networking is a key component. You all that. We're stretching the networking platform, right? And evolving how that edge operates in a more cloud and that's a service white and this is where Nsx St with Velo cloud is such a key component of delivering the edge of network services as well. Taken together the device side, the compute edge and rethinking and evolving the networking layer together is the vm ware edge strategy summary. We see businesses are on this multicloud journey, right? How do we then do that for their private of public coming together, the hybrid cloud, but they're also on a journey for how they work and operate it across the public cloud and the public cloud we have this torrid innovation, you'll want Andy's here, challenges. You know, he's announcing 1500 new services or were extraordinary innovation and you'll same for azure or Google Ibm cloud, but it also creates the same complexity as we said. Businesses are using multiple public clouds and how do I operate them? How do I make them work? You know, how do I keep track of my accounts and users that creates a set of cloud operations problems as well in the complexity of doing that. How do you make it work? Right? And your for that. We'll just see that there's this idea cloud cost compliance, analytics as these common themes that of, you know, keep coming up and we're seeing in our customers that are new role is emerging. The cloud operations role. You're the person who's figuring out how to make these multicloud environments work and keep track of who's using what and which data is landing where today I'm thrilled to tell you that the, um, where is acquiring the leader in this space? Cloudhealth technologies. Thank you. Cloudhealth technologies supports today, Amazon, azure and Google. They have some 3,500 customers, some of the largest and most respected brands in the, as a service industry. And Sasa business today rapidly span expanding feature sets. We will take cloudhealth and we're going to make it a fundamental platform and branded offering from the um, where we will add many of the other vm ware components into this platform, such as our wavefront analytics, our cloud, choreo compliance, and many of the other vm ware products will become part of the cloudhealth suite of services. We will be enabling that through our enterprise channels as well as through our MSP and BCPP partners as well know. Simply put, we will make cloudhealth the cloud operations platform of choice for the industry. I'm thrilled today to have Joe Consella, the CTO and founder. Joe, please stand up. Thank you joe to your team of a couple hundred, you know, mostly in Boston. Welcome to the Vm ware family, the Vm ware community. It is a thrill to have you part of our team. Thank you joe. Thank you. We're also announcing today, and you can think of this, much like we had v realize operations and v realize automation, the compliment to the cloudhealth operations, vm ware, cloud automation, and some of you might've heard of this in the past, this project tango. Well, today we're announcing the initial availability of Vm ware, cloud automation, assemble, manage complex applications, automate their provisioning and cloud services, and manage them through a brokerage the initial availability of cloud automation services, service. Your today, the acquisition of cloudhealth as a platform, the aware of the most complete set of multicloud management tools in the industry, and we're going to do so much more so we've seen this picture of this multicloud journey that our customers are on and you know, we're working hard to say we are going to bridge across these worlds of innovation, the multicloud world. We're doing many other things. You're gonna hear a lot at the show today about this year. We're also giving the tech preview of the Vm ware cloud marketplace for our partners and customers. Also today, Dell technologies is announcing their cloud marketplace to provide a self service, a portfolio of a Dell emc technologies. We're fundamentally in a unique position to accelerate your multicloud journey. So we've built out this any cloud piece, but right in the middle of that any cloud is the network. And when we think about the network, we're just so excited about what we have done and what we're seeing in the industry. So let's click into this a little bit further. We've gotten a lot done over the last five years. Networking. Look at these numbers. 80 million switch ports have been shipped. We are now 10 x larger than number two and software defined networking. We have over 7,500 customers running on Nsx and maybe the stat that I'm most proud of is 82 percent of the fortune 100 has now adopted nsx. You have made nsx these standard and software defined networking. Thank you very much. Thank you. When we think about this journey that we're on, we started. You're saying, Hey, we've got to break the chains inside of the data center as we said. And then Nsx became the software defined networking platform. We started to do it through our cloud provider partners. Ibm made a huge commitment to partner with us and deliver this to their customers. We then said, boy, we're going to make a fundamental to all of our cloud services including aws. We built this bridge called the hybrid cloud extension. We said we're going to build it natively into what we're doing with Telcos, with Azure and Amazon as a service. We acquired the St Wagon, right, and a Velo cloud at the hottest product of Vm ware's portfolio today. The opportunity to fundamentally transform branch and wide area networking and we're extending it to the edge. You're literally, the world has become this complex network. We have seen the world go from the old defined by rigid boundaries, simply put in a distributed world. Hardware cannot possibly work. We're empowering customers to secure their applications and the data regardless of where they sit and when we think of the virtual cloud network, we say it's these three fundamental things, a cloud centric networking fabric with intrinsic security and all of it delivered in software. The world is moving from data centers to centers of data and they need to be connected and Nsx is the way that we will do that. So you'll be aware of is well known for this idea of talking but also showing. So no vm world keynote is okay without great demonstrations of it because you shouldn't believe me only what we can actually show and to do that know I'm going to have our CTL come onstage and CTL y'all. I used to be a cto and the CTO is the certified smart guy. He's also known as the chief talking officer and today he's my demo partner. Please walk, um, Vm ware, cto ray to the stage. Right morning pat. How you doing? Oh, it's great ray, and thanks so much for joining us. Know I promised that we're going to show off some pretty cool stuff here. We've covered a lot already, but are you up to the task? We're going to try and run through a lot of demos. We're going to do it fast and you're going to have to keep me on time to ask an awkward question. Slow me down. Okay. That's my fault if you run along. Okay, I got it. I got it. Let's jump right in here. So I'm a CTO. I get to meet lots of customers that. A few weeks ago I met a cio of a large distribution company and she described her it infrastructure as consisting of a number of data centers troll to us, which he also spoke of a large number of warehouses globally, and each of these had local hyperconverged compute and storage, primarily running surveillance and warehouse management applications, and she pulls me four questions. The first question she asked me, she says, how do I migrate one of these data centers to Vm ware cloud on aws? I want to get out of one of these data centers. Okay. Sounds like something andy and I were just talking exactly, exactly what you just spoke to a few moments ago. She also wanted to simplify the management of the infrastructure in the warehouse as themselves. Okay. He's age and smaller data centers that you've had out there. Her application at the warehouses that needed to run locally, butter developers wanted to develop using cloud infrastructure. Cloud API is a little bit late. The rds we spoken with her in. Her final question was looking to the future, make all this complicated management go away. I want to be able to focus on my application, so that's what my business is about. So give me some new ways of how to automate all of this infrastructure from the edge to the cloud. Sounds pretty clear. Can we do it? Yes we can. So we're going to dive right in right now into one of these demos. And the first demo we're going to look at it is vm ware cloud on aws. This is the best solution for accelerating this public cloud journey. So can we start the demo please? So what you were looking at here is one of those data centers and you should be familiar with this product. It's a familiar vsphere client. You see it's got a bunch of virtual machines running in there. These are the virtual machines that we now want to be able to migrate and move the VMC on aws. So we're going to go through that migration right now. And to do that we use a product that you've seen already atx, however it's the x has been, has got some new cool features since the last time we download it. Probably on this stage here last year, I wanted those in particular is how do we do bulk migration and there's a new cool thing, right? Whole thing we want to move the data center en mass and his concept here is cloud motion with vsphere replication. What this does is it replicates the underlying storage of the virtual machines using vsphere replication. So if and when you want to now do the final migration, it actually becomes a vmotion. So this is what you see going on right here. The replication is in place. Now when you want to touch you move those virtual machines. What you'll do is a vmotion and the key thing to think about here is this is an actual vmotion. Those the ends as room as they're moving a hustler, migrating remained life just as you would in a v motion across one particular infrastructure. Did you feel complete application or data center migration with no dying town? It's a Standard v motion kind of appearance. Wow. That is really impressive. That's correct. Wow. You. So one of the other things we want to talk about here is as we are moving these virtual machines from the on prem infrastructure to the VMC on aws infrastructure, unfortunately when we set up the cloud on VMC and aws, we only set up for hosts, uh, that might not be, that'd be enough because she is going to move the whole infrastructure of that this was something you guys, you and Andy referred to briefly data center. Now, earlier, this concept of elastic drs. what elastic drs does, it allows the VMC on aws to react to the workloads as they're being created and pulled in onto that infrastructure and automatically pull in new hosts into the VMC infrastructure along the way. So what you're seeing here is essentially the MC growing the infrastructure to meet the needs of the workloads themselves. Very cool. So overseeing that elastic drs. we also see the ebs capabilities as well. Again, you guys spoke about this too. This is the ability to be able to take the huge amount of stories that Amazon have, an ebs and then front that by visa you get the same experience of v Sign, but you get this enormous amount of storage capabilities behind it. Wow. That's incredible. That's incredible. I'm excited about this. This is going to enable customers to migrate faster and larger than ever before. Correct. Now she had a series of little questions. Okay. The second question was around what about all those data centers and those age applications that I did not move, and this is where we introduce the project which you've heard of already tonight called project dementia. What this does, it gives you the simplicity of Vm ware cloud, but bringing that out to the age, you know what's basically going on here, vmc on aws is a service which manages your infrastructure in aws. We know stretch that service out into your infrastructure, in your data center and at the age, allowing us to be able to manage that infrastructure in the same way. Once again, let's dive down into a demo and take a look at what this looks like. So what you've got here is a familiar series of services available to you, one of them, which is project dimension. When you enter project dimension, you first get a view of all of the different infrastructure that you have available to you, your data centers, your edge locations. You can then dive deeply into one of these to get a closer look at what's going on here. We're diving into one of these The problem is there's a networking problem going on in this warehouse. warehouses and we see it as a problem here. How do we know? We know because vm ware is running this as a managed service. We are directly managing or sorry, monitoring your infrastructure or we discover there's something going wrong here. We automatically create the ASR, so somebody is dealing with this. You have visibility to what's going on, but the vm ware managed service is already chasing the problem for you. Oh, very good. So now we're seeing this dispersed infrastructure with project dementia, but what's running on it so well before we get with running out, you've got another problem and the problem is of course, if you're managing a lot of infrastructure like this, you need to keep it up to date. And so once again, this is where the vm ware managed service kicks in. We manage that infrastructure in terms of patching it and updating it for you. And as an example, when we released a security patch, here's one for the recent l, one terminal fault, the Vmr managed service is already on that and making sure that your on prem and edge infrastructure is up to date. Very good. Now, what's running? Okay. So what's running, uh, so we mentioned this case of this software running at the edge infrastructure itself, and these are workloads which are running locally in those age, uh, those edge locations. This is a surveillance application. You can see it here at the bottom it says warehouse safety monitor. So this is an application which gathers images and then stores those images He said my sql database on top there, now this is where we leverage the somewhere and it puts them in a database. technology you just learned about when Andy and pat spoke about disability to take rds and run that on your on prem infrastructure. The block of virtual machines in the moment are the rds components from Amazon running in your infrastructure or in your edge location, and this gives you the ability to allow your developers to be able to leverage and operate against those Apis, but now the actual database, the infrastructure is running on prem and you might be doing just for performance reasons because of latency, you might be doing it simply because this data center is not always connected to the cloud. When you take a look into under the hood and see what's going on here, what you actually see this is vsphere, a modified version of vsphere. You see this new concept of my custom availability zone. That is the availability zone running on your infrastructure which supports or ds. What's more interesting is you flip back to the Amazon portal. This is typically what your developers are going to do. Once again, you see an availability zone in your Amazon portal. This is the availability zone running on your equipment in your data center. So we've truly taken that already as infrastructure and moved it to the edge so the developer sees what they're comfortable with and the infrastructure sees what they're comfortable with bridging those two worlds. Fabulous. Right. So the final question of course that we got here was what's next? How do I begin to look to the future and say I am going to, I want to be able to see all of my infrastructure just handled in an automated fashion. And so when you think about that, one of the questions there is how do we leverage new technologies such as ai and ml to do that? So what you've got here is, sorry we've got a little bit later. What you've got here is how do I blend ai in a male and the power of what's in the data center itself. Okay. And we could do that. We're bringing you the AI and ml, right? And fusing them together as never before to truly change how the data center operates. Correct. And it is this introduction is this merging of these things together, which is extremely powerful in my mind. This is a little bit like a self driving vehicle, so thinking about a car driving down the street is self driving vehicle, it is consuming information from all of the environment around it, other vehicles, what's happening, everything from the wetter, but it also has a lot of built in knowledge which is built up to to self learning and training along the way in the kids collecting lots of that data for decades. Exactly. And we've got all that from all the infrastructure that we have. We can now bring that to bear. So what we're focusing on here is a project called project magna and project. Magna leverage is all of this infrastructure. What it does here is it helps connect the dots across huge datasets and again a deep insight across the stack, all the way from the application hardware, the infrastructure to the public cloud, and even the age and what it does, it leverages hundreds of control points to optimize your infrastructure on Kpis of cost performance, even user specified policies. This is the use of machine language in order to fundamentally transform. I'm sorry, machine learning. I'm going back to some. Very early was here, right? This is the use of machine learning and ai, which will automatically transform. How do you actually automate these data centers? The goal is true automation of your infrastructure, so you get to focus on the applications which really served needs of your business. Yeah, and you know, maybe you could think about that as in the past we would have described the software defined data center, but in the future we're calling it the self driving data center. Here we are taking that same acronym and redefining it, right? Because the self driving data center, the steep infusion of ai and machine learning into the management and automation into the storage, into the networking, into vsphere, redefining the self driving data center and with that we believe fundamentally is to be an enormous advance and how they can take advantage of new capabilities from bm ware. Correct. And you're already seeing some of this in pieces of projects such as some of the stuff we do in wavefront and so already this is how do we take this to a new level and that's what project magnet will do. So let's summarize what we've seen in a few demos here as we work in true each of these very quickly going through these demos. First of all, you saw the n word cloud on aws. How do I migrate an entire data center to the cloud with no downtime? Check, we saw project dementia, get the simplicity of Vm ware cloud in the data center and manage it at the age as a managed service check. Amazon rds and Vm ware. Cool Demo, seamlessly deploy a cloud service to an on premises environment. In this case already. Yes, we got that one coming in are in m five. And then finally project magna. What happens when you're looking to the future? How do we leverage ai and ml to self optimize to virtual infrastructure? Well, how did ray do as our demo guy? Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. Right. Thank you. So coming back to this picture, our gps for the day, we've covered any cloud, let's click into now any application, and as we think about any application, we really view it as this breadth of the traditional cloud native and Sas Coobernetti is quickly maybe spectacularly becoming seen as the consensus way that containers will be managed and automate as the framework for how modern APP teams are looking at their next generation environment, quickly emerging as a key to how enterprises build and deploy their applications today. And containers are efficient, lightweight, portable. They have lots of values for developers, but they need to also be run and operate and have many infrastructure challenges as well. Managing automation while patch lifecycle updates, efficient move of new application services, know can be accelerated with containers. We also have these infrastructure problems and you know, one thing we want to make clear is that the best way to run a container environment is on a virtual machine. You know, in fact, every leader in public cloud runs their containers and virtual machines. Google the creator and arguably the world leader in containers. They runs them all in containers. Both their internal it and what they run as well as G K, e for external users as well. They just announced gke on premise on vm ware for their container environments. Google and all major clouds run their containers and vms and simply put it's the best way to run containers. And we have solved through what we have done collectively the infrastructure problems and as we saw earlier, cool new container apps are also typically some ugly combination of cool new and legacy and existing environments as well. How do we bridge those two worlds? And today as people are rapidly moving forward with containers and Coobernetti's, we're seeing a certain set of problems emerge. And Dan cone, right, the director of CNCF, the Coobernetti, uh, the cloud native computing foundation, the body for Coobernetti's collaboration and that, the group that sort of stewards the standardization of this capability and he points out these four challenges. How do you secure them? How do you network and you know, how do you monitor and what do you do for the storage underneath them? Simply put, vm ware is out to be, is working to be is on our way to be the dial tone for Coobernetti's. Now, some of you who were in your twenties might not know what that means, so we know over to a gray hair or come and see me afterward. We'll explain what dial tone means to you or maybe stated differently. Enterprise grade standard for Cooper netties and for that we are working together with our partners at Google as well as pivotal to deliver Vm ware, pks, Cooper netties as an enterprise capability. It builds on Bosh. The lifecycle engine that's foundational to the pivotal have offerings today, uh, builds on and is committed to stay current with the latest Coobernetti's releases. It builds on Nsx, the SDN container, networking and additional contributions that were making like harbor the Vm ware open source contribution for the container registry. It packages those together makes them available on a hybrid cloud as well as public cloud environments with pks operators can efficiently deploy, run, upgrade their coopernetties environments on SDDC or on all public clouds. While developers have the freedom to embrace and run their applications rapidly and efficiently, simply put, pks, the standard for Coobernetti's in the enterprise and underneath that Nsx you'll is emerging as the standard for software defined networking. But when we think about and we saw that quote on the challenges of Kubernetes today, we see that networking is one of the huge challenge is underneath that and in a containerized world, things are changing even more rapidly. My network environment is moving more quickly. NSX provides the environment's easily automate networking and security for rapid deployment of containerized environments that fully supports the MRP chaos, fully supports pivotal's application service, and we're also committed to fully support all of the major kubernetes distribution such as red hat, heptio and docker as well Nsx, the only platform on the planet that can address the complexity and scale of container deployments taken together Vm Ware, pks, the production grade computer for the enterprise available on hybrid cloud, available on major public clouds. Now, let's not just talk about it again. Let's see it in action and please walk up to the stage. When di Carter with Ray, the senior director of cloud native marketing for Vm ware. Thank you. Hi everybody. So we're going to talk about pks because more and more new applications are built using kubernetes and using containers with vm ware pts. We get to simplify the deploying and the operation of Kubernetes at scale. When the. You're the experts on all of this, right? So can you take as true the scenario of how pks or vm ware pts can really help a developer operating the Kubernedes environment, developed great applications, but also from an administrator point of view, I can really handle things like networking, security and those configurations. Sounds great. I love to dive into the demo here. Okay. Our Demo is. Yeah, more pks running coubernetties vsphere. Now pks has a lot of cool functions built in, one of which is Nsx. And today what I'm going to show you is how NSX will automatically bring up network objects as quick Coobernetti's name spaces are spun up. So we're going to start with the fees per client, which has been extended to Ron pks, deployed cooper clusters. We're going to go into pks instance one, and we see that there are five clusters running. We're going to select one other clusters, call application production, and we see that it is running nsx. Now a cluster typically has multiple users and users are assigned namespaces, and these namespaces are essentially a way to provide isolation and dedicated resources to the users in that cluster. So we're going to check how many namespaces are running in this cluster and more brought up the Kubernetes Ui. We're going to click on namespace and we see that this cluster currently has four namespaces running wire. We're going to do next is bringing up a new name space and show that Nsx will automatically bring up the network objects required for that name space. So to do that, we're going to upload a Yammel file and your developer may actually use Ku Kata command to do this as well. We're going to check the namespace and there it is. We have a new name space called pks rocks. Yeah. Okay. Now why is that guy now? It's great. We have a new name space and now we want to make sure it has the network elements assigned to us, so we're going to go to the NSX manager and hit refresh and there it is. PKS rocks has a logical robber and a logical switch automatically assigned to it and it's up and running. So I want to interrupt here because you made this look so easy, right? I'm not sure people realize the power of what happened here. The developer, winton using Kubernetes, is api infrastructure to familiar with added a new namespace and behind the scenes pks and tardy took care of the networking. It combination of Nsx, a combination of what we do at pks to truly automate this function. Absolutely. So this means that if you are on the infrastructure operation, you don't need to worry about your developer springing up namespaces because Nsx will take care of bringing the networking up and then bringing them back down when the namespace is not used. So rate, but that's not it. Now, I was in operations before and I know how hard it is for enterprises to roll out a new product without visibility. Right, so pks took care of those dates, you operational needs as well, so while it's running your clusters, it's also exporting Meta data so that your developers and operators can use wavefront to gain deep visibility into the health of the cluster as well as resources consumed by the cluster. So here you see the wavefront Ui and it's showing you the number of nodes running, active parts, inactive pause, et cetera. You can also dive deeper into the analytics and take a look at information site, Georgia namespace, so you see pks rocks there and you see the number of active nodes running as well as the CPU utilization and memory consumption of that nice space. So now pks rocks is ready to run containerized applications and microservices. So you just get us a very highlight of a demo here to see a little bit what pks pks says, where can we learn more? So we'd love to show you more. Please come by the booth and we have more cool functions running on pks and we'd love to have you come by. Excellent. Thank you, Lindy. Thank you. Yeah, so when we look at these types of workloads now running on vsphere containers, Kubernedes, we also see a new type of workload beginning to appear and these are workloads which are basically machine learning and ai and in many cases they leverage a new type of infrastructure, hardware accelerators, typically gps. What we're going to talk about here is how in video and Vm ware have worked together to give you flexibility to run sophisticated Vdi workloads, but also to leverage those same gpu for deep learning inference workloads also on vsphere. So let's dive right into a demo here. Again, what you're seeing here is again, you're looking at here, you're looking at your standard view realized operations product, and you see we've got two sets of applications here, a Vdi desktop workload and machine learning, and the graph is showing what's happening with the Vdi desktops. These are office workers leveraging these desktops everyday, so of course the infrastructure is super busy during the daytime when they're in the office, but the green area shows this is not been used very heavily outside of those times. So let's take a look. What happens to the machine learning application in this case, this organization leverages those available gpu to run the machine learning operations outside the normal working hours. Let's take a little bit of a deeper dive into what the application it is before we see what we can do from an infrastructure and configuration point of view. So this machine learning application processes a vast number of images and it clarify or sorry, it categorizes these images and as it's doing so, it is moving forward and putting each of these in a database and you can see it's operating here relatively fast and it's leveraging some gps to do that. So typical image processing type of machine learning problem. Now let's take a dive in and look at the infrastructure which is making this happen. First of all, we're going to look only at the Vdi employee Dvt, a Vdi infrastructure here. So I've got a bunch of these applications running Vdi applications. What I want to do is I want to move these so that I can make this image processing out a application run a lot faster. Now normally you wouldn't do this, but pot insisted that we do this demo at 10:30 in the morning when the office workers are in there, so we're going to move older Vdi workloads over to the other cluster and that's what you're seeing is going on right now. So as they move over to this other cluster, what we are now doing is freeing up all of the infrastructure. The GPU that Vdi workload was using here. We see them moving across and now you've freed up that infrastructure. So now we want to take a look at this application itself, the machine learning application and see how we can make use of that. Now freed up infrastructure we've got here is the application is running using one gpu in a vsphere cluster, but I've got three more gpu is available now because I've moved the Vdi workloads. We simply modify the application, let it know that these are available and you suddenly see an increase in the processing capabilities because of what we've done here in terms of making the flexibility of accessing those gps. So what you see here is the same gps that youth for Vdi, which you probably have in your infrastructure today, can also be used to run sophisticated machine learning and ai type of applications on your vsphere infrastructure. So let's summarize what we've seen in the various demos here in this section. First of all, we saw how the MRPS simplifies the deployment and operating operation of Kubernetes at scale. What we've also seen is that leveraging the Nvidia Gpu, we can now run the most demanding workloads on vsphere. When we think about all of these applications and these new types of workloads that people are running. I want to take one second to speak to another workload that we're seeing beginning to appear in the data center. And this is of course blockchain. We're seeing an increasing number of organizations evaluating blockchains for smart contract and digital consensus solutions. So this tech, this technology is really becoming or potentially becoming a critical role in how businesses will interact each other, how they will work together. We'd project concord, which is an open source project that we're releasing today. You get the choice, performance and scale of verifiable trust, which you can then bring to bear and run in the enterprise, but this is not just another blockchain implementation. We have focused very squarely on making sure that this is good for enterprises. It focuses on performance, it focuses on scalability. We have seen examples where running consensus algorithms have taken over 80 days on some of the most common and widely used infrastructure in blockchain and we project conquered. You can do that in two and a half hours. So I encourage you to check out this project on get hub today. You'll also see lots of activity around the whole conference. Speaking about this. Now we're going to dive into another section which is the anti device section. And for that I need to welcome pat back up there. Thank you pat. Thanks right. So diving into any device piece of the puzzle, you and as we think about the superpowers that we have, maybe there are no more area that they are more visible than in the any device aspect of our picture. You know, and as we think about this, the superpowers, you know, think about mobility, right? You know, and how it's enabling new things like desktop as a service in the mobile area, these breadth of smartphones and devices, ai and machine learning allow us to manage them, secure them and this expanding envelope of devices in the edge that need to be connected and wearables and three d printers and so on. We've also seen increasing research that says engaged employees are at the center of business success. Engaged employees are the critical ingredient for digital transformation. And frankly this is how I run vm ware, right? You know, I have my device and my work, all my applications, every one of my 23,000 employees is running on our transformed workspace one environment. Research shows that companies that, that give employees ready anytime access are nearly three x more likely to be leaders in digital transformation. That employees spend 20 percent of their time today on manual processes that can be automated. The way team collaboration and speed of division decisions increases by 16 percent with engaged employees with modern devices. Simply put this as a critical aspect to enabling your business, but you remember this picture from the silos that we started with and each of these environments has their own tribal communities of management, security automation associated with them, and the complexity associated with these is mind boggling and we start to think about these. Remember the I'm a pc and I'm a Mac. Well now you have. I'm an Ios. I'm a droid and other bdi and I'm now a connected printer and I'm a connected watch. You remember citrix manager and good is now bad and sccm a failed model and vpns and Xanax. The chaos is now over at the center of that is vm ware, workspace one, get it out of the business of managing devices, automate them from the cloud, but still have the mentor price. Secure cloud based analytics that brings new capabilities to this critical topic. You'll focus your energy on creating employee and customer experiences. You know, new capabilities to allow like our airlift, the new capability to help customers migrate from their sccm environment to a modern management, expanding the use of workspace intelligence. Last year we announced the chromebook and a partnership with HP and today I'm happy to announce the next step in our partnerships with Dell. And uh, today we're announcing that Dell provisioning for Vm ware, workspace one as part of Dell's ready to work solutions Dallas, taking the next leap and bringing workspace one into the core of their client to offerings. And the way you can think about this as Literally a dell drop ship, lap pops showing up to new employee. day one, productivity. You give them their credential and everything else is delivered by workspace one, your image, your software, everything patched and upgraded, transforming your business, right beginning at that device experience that you give to your customer. And again, we don't want to talk about it. We want to show you how this works. Please walk to the stage with re renew the head of our desktop products marketing. Thank you. So we just heard from pat about how workspace one integrated with Dell laptops is really set up to manage windows devices. What we're broadly focused on here is how do we get a truly modern management system for these devices, but one that has an intelligence behind it to make sure that we're kept with a good understanding of how to keep these devices always up to date and secure. Can we start the demo please? So what we're seeing here is to be the the front screen that you see of workspace one and you see you've got multiple devices a little bit like that demo that patch assured. I've got Ios, android, and of course I've got windows renewal. Can you please take us through how workspace one really changes the ability of somebody an it administrator to update and manage windows into our environment? Absolutely. With windows 10, Microsoft has finally joined the modern management body and we are really excited about that. Now. The good news about modern management is the frequency of ostp updates and how quickly they come out because you can address all those security issues that are hitting our radar on a daily basis, but the bad news about modern management is the frequency of those updates because all of us in it admins, we have to test each and every one of our applications would that latest version because we don't want to roll out that update in case of causes any problems with workspace one, we saw that we simply automate and provide you with the APP compatibility information right out of the box so you can now automate that update process. Let's take a quick look. Let's drill down here further into the windows devices. What we'll see is that only a small percentage of those devices are on that latest version of operating system. Now, that's not a good thing because it might have an important security fix. Let's scroll down further and see what the issue is. We find that it's related to app compatibility. In fact, 38 percent of our devices are blocked from being upgraded and the issue is app compatibility. Now we were able to find that not by asking the admins to test each and every one of those, but we combined windows analytics data with APP intelligent out of the box and be provided that information right here inside of the console. Let's dig down further and see what those devices and apps look like. So knew this is the part that I find most interesting. If I am a system administrator at this point I'm looking at workspace one is giving me a key piece of information. It says if you proceed with this update, it's going to fail 84, 85 percent at a time. So that's an important piece of information here, but not alone. Is it telling me that? It is telling me roughly speaking why it thinks it's going to fail. We've got a number of apps which are not ready to work with this new version, particularly the Mondo card sales lead tracker APP. So what we need to do is get engineering to tackle the problems with this app and make sure that it's updated. So let's get fixing it in order to fix it. What we'll do is create an automation and we can do this right out of the box in this automation will open up a Jira ticket right from within the console to inform the engineers about the problem, not just that we can also flag and send a notification to that engineering manager so that it's top of mine and they can get working on this fixed right away. Let's go ahead and save that automation right here, ray UC. There's the automation that we just So what's happening here is essentially this update is now scheduled meeting. saved. We can go and update oldest windows devices, but workspace one is holding the process of proceeding with that update, waiting for the engineers to update the APP, which is going to cause the problem. That's going to take them some time, right? So the engineers have been working on this, they have a fixed and let's go back and see what's happened to our devices. So going back into the ios updates, what we'll find is now we've unblocked those devices from being upgraded. The 38 percent has drastically dropped down. It can rest in peace that all of the devices are compliant and on that latest version of operating system. And again, this is just a snapshot of the power of workspace one to learn more and see more. I invite you all to join our EOC showcase keynote later this evening. Okay. So we've spoken about the presence of these new devices that it needs to be able to manage and operate across everything that they do. But what we're also seeing is the emergence of a whole new class of computing device. And these are devices which are we commonly speak to have been at the age or embedded devices or Iot. And in many cases these will be in factories. They'll be in your automobiles, there'll be in the building, controlling, controlling, uh, the building itself, air conditioning, etc. Are quite often in some form of industrial environment. There's something like this where you've got A wind farm under embedded in each of these turbines. This is a new class of computing which needs to be managed, secured, or we think virtualization can do a pretty good job of that in new virtualization frontier, right at the edge for iot and iot gateways, and that's gonna. That's gonna, open up a whole new realm of innovation in that space. Let's dive down and taking the demo. This spaces. Well, let's do that. What we're seeing here is a wind turbine farm, a very different than a data center than what we're used to and all the compute infrastructure is being managed by v center and we see to edge gateway hose and they're running a very mission critical safety watchdog vm right on there. Now the safety watchdog vm is an fte mode because it's collecting a lot of the important sensor data and running the mission critical operations for the turbine, so fte mode or full tolerance mode, that's a pretty sophisticated virtualization feature allowing to applications to essentially run in lockstep. So if there's a failure, wouldn't that gets to take over immediately? So this no sophisticated virtualization feature can be brought out all the way to the edge. Exactly. So just like in the data center, we want to perform an update, so as we performed that update, the first thing we'll do is we'll suspend ft on that safety watchdog. Next, we'll put two. Oh, five into maintenance mode. Once that's done, we'll see the power of emotion that we're all familiar with. We'll start to see all the virtual machines vmotion over to the second backup host. Again, all the maintenance, all the update without skipping a heartbeat without taking down any daily operations. So what we're seeing here is the basic power of virtualization being brought out to the age v motion maintenance mode, et cetera. Great. What's the big deal? We've been doing that for years. What's the, you know, come on. What's the big deal? So what you're on the edge. So when you get to the age pack, you're dealing with a whole new class of infrastructure. You're dealing with embedded systems and new types of cpu hours and process. This whole demo has been done on an arm 64. Virtualization brought to arm 64 for embedded devices. So we're doing this on arm on the edge, correct. Specifically focused for embedded for age oems. Okay. Now that's good. Okay. Thank you ray. Actually, we've got a summary here. Pat, just a second before you disappear. A lot to rattle off what we've just seen, right? We've seen workspace one cross platform management. What we've also seen, of course esx for arm to bring the power of vfx to edge on 64, but are in platforms will go no. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Now we've seen a look at a customer who is taking advantage of everything that we just saw and again, a story of a customer that is just changing lives in a fundamental way. Let's see. Make a wish. So when a family gets the news that a child is sick and it's a critical illness, it could be a life threatening illness. The whole family has turned upside down. Imagine somebody comes to you and they say, what's the one thing you want that's in your heart? You tell us and then we make that happen. So I was just calling to give you the good news that we're going to be able to grant jackson a wish make, which is the largest wish granting organizations in the United States. English was featured in the cbs 60 minutes episode. Interestingly, it got a lot of hits, but uh, unfortunately for the it team, the whole website crashed make a wish is going through a program right now where we're centralizing technology and putting certain security standards in place at our chapters. So what you're seeing here, we're configuring certain cloud services to make sure that they always are able to deliver on the mission whether they have a local problem or not is we continue to grow the partnership and work with vm ware. It's enabling us to become more efficient in our processes and allows us to grant more wishes. It was a little girl. She had a two year old brother. She just wanted a puppy and she was forthright and I want to name the puppy in my name so my brother would always have me to list them off a five year old. It's something we can't change their medical outcome, but we can change their spiritual outcome and we can transform their lives. Thank you. Working together with you truly making wishes come true. The last topic I want to touch on today, and maybe the most important to me personally is security. You got to fundamentally, when we think about this topic of security, I'll say it's broken today and you know, we would just say that the industry got it wrong that we're trying to bolt on or chasing bad, and when we think about our security spend, we're spending more and we're losing more, right? Every day we're investing more in this aspect of our infrastructure and we're falling more behind. We believe that we have to have much less security products and much more security. You know, fundamentally, you know, if you think about the problem, we build infrastructure, right? Generic infrastructure, we then deploy applications, all kinds of applications, and we're seeing all sorts of threats launched that as daily tens of millions. You're simple virus scanner, right? Is having tens of millions of rules running and changing many times a day. We simply believe the security model needs to change. We need to move from bolted on and chasing bad to an environment that has intrinsic security and is built to ensure good. This idea of built in security. We are taking every one of the core vm ware products and we are building security directly into it. We believe with this, we can eliminate much of the complexity. Many of the sensors and agents and boxes. Instead, they'll directly leverage the mechanisms in the infrastructure and we're using that infrastructure to lock it down to behave as we intended it to ensure good, right on the user side with workspace one on the network side with nsx and microsegmentation and storage with native encryption and on the compute with app defense, we are building in security. We're not chasing threats or adding on, but radically reducing the attack surface. When we look at our applications in the data center, you see this collection of machines running inside of it, right? You know, typically running on vsphere and those machines are increasingly connected. Through nsx and last year we introduced the breakthrough security solution called app defense and app defense. Leverages the unique insight we get into the application so that we can understand the application and map it into the infrastructure and then you can lock down, you could take that understanding, that manifest of its behavior and then lock those vms to that intended behavior and we do that without the operational and performance burden of agents and other rear looking use of attack detection. We're shrinking the attack surface, not chasing the latest attack vector, you know, and this idea of bolt on versus chasing bad. You sort of see it right in the network. Machines have lots of conductivity, lots of applications running and something bad happens. It basically has unfettered access to move horizontally through the data center and most of our security is north, south. MosT of the attacks are eastwest. We introduced this idea of microsegmentation five years ago, and by it we're enabling organizations to secure some networks and separate sensitive applications and services as never before. This idea isn't new, that just was never practical before nsx, but we're not standing still. Our teams are innovating to leap beyond 12. What's next beyond microsegmentation, and we see this in three simple words, learn, imagine a system that can look into the applications and understand their behavior and how they should operate. we're using machine learning and ai instead of chasing were to be able to ensure good where that that system can then locked down its behavior so the system consistently operates that way, but finally we know we have a world of increasing dynamic applications and as we move to more containerize the microservices, we know this world is changing, so we need to adapt. We need to have more automation to adapt to the current behavior. Today I'm very excited to have two major announcements that are delivering on this vision. The first of those vsphere platinum, our flagship vm ware vsphere product now has app defense built right in platinum will enable virtualization teams. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, let's use it. Platinum will enable virtualization teams you to give an enormous contribution to the security profile of your enterprise. You could see whatever vm is for its purpose, its behavior until the system. That's what it's allowed to do. Dramatically reducing the attack surface without impact. On operations or performance, the capability is so powerful, so profound. We want you to be able to leverage it everywhere, and that's why we're building it directly into vsphere, vsphere platinum. I call it the burger and fries. You know, nobody leaves the restaurant without the fries who would possibly run a vm in the future without turning security on. That's how we want this to work going forward. Vsphere platinum and as powerful as microsegmentation has been as an idea. We're taking the next step with what we call adaptive microsegmentation. We are fusing Together app defense and vsphere with nsx to allow us to align the policies of the application through vsphere and the network. We can then lock down the network and the compute and enable this automation of the microsegment formation taken together adaptive microsegmentation. But again, we don't want to just tell you about it. We want to show you. Please welcome to the stage vj dante, who heads our machine learning team for app dispense. Vj a very good vj. Thanks for joining us. So, you know, I talked about this idea right, of being able to learn, lock and adapt. Uh, can you show it to us? Great. Yeah. Thank you. With vc a platinum, what we have done is we have put in everything you need to learn, lock and adapt, right with the infrastructure. The next time you bring up your wifi at line, you'll actually see a difference right in there. Let's go with that demo. There you go. And when you look at our defense there, what you see is that all your guests, virtual machines and all your host, hundreds of them and thousands of virtual machines enabling for that difference. It's in there. And what that does is immediately gets you visibility into the processes running on those virtual machines and the risk for the first time. Think about it for the first time. You're looking at the infrastructure through the lens of an application. Here, for example, the ecommerce application, you can see the components that make up that application, how they interact with each other, the specific process, a specific ip address on a specific board. That's what you get, but so we're learning the behavior. Yes. Yeah, that's very good. But how do you make sure you only learn good behavior? Exactly. How do we make sure that it's not bad? We actually verify me insured. It's all good. We ensured that everybody these reputation is verified. We ensured that the haven is verified. Let's go to svc host, for example. This process can exhibit hundreds of behaviors across numerous. Realize what we do here is we actually verify that failure saw us. It's actually a machine learning models that had been trained on millions of instances of good, bad at you said, and then automatically verify that for okay, so we said, you. We learned simply, learn now, lock. How does that work? Well, once you learned the application, locking it is as simple as clicking on that verify and protect button and then you can lock both the compute and network and it's done. So we've pushed those policies into nsx and microsegmentation has been established actually locked down the compute. What is the operating system is exactly. Let's first look at compute, protected the processes and the behaviors are locked down to exactly what is allowed for that application. And we have bacon policies and program your firewall. This is nsx being configured automatically for you, laurie, with one single click. Very good. So we said learn lock. Now, how does this adapt thing work? Well, a bad change is the only constant, but modern applications applications change on a continuous basis. What we do is actually pretty simple. We look at every change as it comes in determinant is good or bad. If it's good, we say allow it, update the policies. That's bad. We denied. Let's look at an example as asco dxc. It's exhibiting a behavior that they've not seen getting the learning period. Okay? So this machine has never behave this This hasn't been that way. But. way. But again, our machine learning models had seen thousands of instances of this process. They know this is normal. It talks on three 89 all the time. So what it's done to the few things, it's lowered the criticality of the alarm. Okay, so false positive. Exactly. The bane of security operations, false positives, and it has gone and updated. Jane does locks on compute and network to allow for that behavior. Applications continues to work on this project. Okay, so we can learn and adapt and action right through the compute and the network. What about the client? Well, we do with workplace one, intelligence protect and manage end user endpoint, but what's one intelligence? Nsx and actually work together to protect your entire data center infrastructure, but don't believe me. You can watch it for yourself tomorrow tom cornu keynote. You want to be there, at 1:00 PM, be there or be nowhere. I love you. Thank you veejay. Great job. Thank you so much. So the idea of intrinsic security and ensuring good, we believe fundamentally changing how security will be delivered in the enterprise in the future and changing the entire security industry. We've covered a lot today. I'm thrilled as I stand on stage to stand before this community that truly has been at the center of changing the world of technology over the last couple of decades. In it. We've talked about this idea of the super powers of technology and as they accelerate the huge demand for what you do, you know in the same way we together created this idea of the virtual infrastructure admin. You'll think about all the jobs that we are spawning in the discussion that we had today, the new skills, the new opportunities for each one of us in this room today, quantum program, machine learning engineer, iot and edge expert. We're on the cusp of so many new capabilities and we need you and your skills to do that. The skills that you possess, the abilities that you have to work across these silos of technology and enabled tomorrow. I'll tell you, I am now 38 years in the industry and I've never been more excited because together we have the opportunity to build on the things that collective we have done over the last four decades and truly have a positive global impact. These are hard problems, but I believe together we can successfully extend the lifespan of every human being. I believe together we can eradicate chronic diseases that have plagued mankind for centuries. I believe we can lift the remaining 10 percent of humanity out of extreme poverty. I believe that we can reschedule every worker in the age of the superpowers. I believe that we can give modern ever education to every child on the planet, even in the of slums. I believe that together we could reverse the impact of climate change. I believe that together we have the opportunity to make these a reality. I believe this possibility is only possible together with you. I asked you have a please have a wonderful vm world. Thanks for listening. Happy 20th birthday. Have a great topic.

(upbeat music) >> Hi, I'm Peter Burris. Welcome to another Cube Conversation from our beautiful studio here in Palo Alto, California, and once again I'm joined by Eric Herzog. Eric is the CMO and vice president of channels in IBM Sports Group, Eric? >> Well thank you, we love coming to see theCUBE. And by the way, I'm a Palo Alto native! >> Hey, I've heard that! You know, I don't think we're going to get into that today. Maybe some other time we can talk about that. But what I do want to talk about is, storage has historically been way down in the food chain of strategy, of business strategy. >> Eric: Right. >> Now we're talking about digital business. And digital business at least from our perspective, and I think you would agree, is predicated on the idea that you use data as an asset. In fact, Wikibon says that the difference between business and digital business is that digital businesses use data as an asset. Now, since storage is where you put that data, and is responsible for availability, throughput, reliability, flexibility, in how you do things differently with data, that kind of elevates storage's position as part of a strategic digital business capability. But nobody talks about it. So, as a smart guy in the storage community, I'd like to talk to you about that. First off, do you agree with my proposition? >> Ah yeah, I would posit that in today's digital business world build around private clouds, storage is, if not the critical foundation, one of the top two critical foundations you have to rely for your digital business. So if you're the CEO or you're the CFO and you know you're gone digital business, if the storage goes down or the storage is slow, your digital business and the value of that data you're driving both internally and for your customers just dramatically shrank. So it's critical, critical. Just as when you're building a giant building in downtown San Francisco or downtown New York or downtown Singapore, if you don't have that foundation right, the building literally can fall right down. >> And in San Francisco, one of the big buildings is actually starting to lean about two or three degrees. It's got a bunch of people pretty freaked out. But let's talk about, therefore what are the strategic digital business capabilities that are associated with storage that CXOs have to start thinking about? You mentioned one, we call it true private cloud. >> Right. >> The idea that you're still going to need some capacity where the data has to be. Because you're not going to be able to put everything in the public cloud. So a true private cloud is going to be one of them. >> Eric: Right. >> What's another one? >> So I think the big thing here is modern data protection. In the modern data protection scheme, because you're a digital business, which means you probably have test guys, you have some DevOps guys, inside, that are constantly playing with your own code or commercial code that you've bought. To optimize for your digital business, you've got to be able to give them real data sets to work with. Now that doesn't mean you can't track it in case there's a data leak or whatever, but the bottom-line is you want those developers to be A, always be able to get it, B, have it to be self service, because the IT guys are keeping your digital business up and going, they can't be bothered with hey can you get me real data set? The quality of the data that those developers produce for you goes way up, so you have less downtime which by the way, if you're a digital business you don't want to have any downtime. >> Peter: Right. >> And it gets it faster. So if you're playing with some commercial software writing your own that you're using in a digital business, you want to get there before your competitors do. >> Peter: Right. >> So you want those DevOps guys constantly working, and you want to be able to do that. Yet at the same time the IT guy can focus on what they need to do. And by the way, they can track where all those copies of the real data sets are. So everybody wins and it makes it work well. >> So in other respects, what you're saying is that availability, which used to be associated with the performance of an individual application, is now associated with digital business strategy. Because you need to be able to test new business ideas, pursue new business ideas, be fast in bringing things to market. And the whole notion of availability extends beyond just making sure the data is where you need it to be, or where the application says it needs to be, to now using availability as a metric for ensuring that the data can be where it needs to be within the business, so the business can make the appropriate changes and adjustments and extensions to what its strategy is. >> Well, think of this as you've got a data set. The more you use that data set, not just for the primary storage that's used by the end users that are coming to your digital business, but for everything else. Back it up, okay great. Check box. Okay, interface with common API so the DevOps guys can use it. Another check box. Making sure that the test guys can test real data sets, not faux ones, guess what? Faster test time, more accurate test time, boom, better impact for your digital business. So extending the value of the data from just primary storage throughout your entire digital software development process is critical. And in today's world, that's what you can do with the modern data protection that, for example, we have with our IBM solutions. >> So let me build on top of that, because I think another capability might be increasing the association with speed of development. It used to be, again, that storage was very closely aligned with what your server needed. Increasingly, we're starting to see the concept of data protection and the concept of data availability actually start to mean something very, very different to developers. Are we now seeing developers and the developer ecosystem start to drive more of what's required in storage? >> Well, you've got to look at it, the developer wants to be able to spin things up quickly on their own. So in the old world, you do a ticket, you give it to the VMaura guy, the HyperV guy, the IT guy, takes a week or so. You don't want to do that. So with our stuff, for example, you could check in and check out, it integrates with all their APIs, they can quickly do their work. It's a real data set, not using fake data, so that makes it better from a reliability perspective, and it gets done faster and they know how it really is going to work when you deploy that in your digital business. They can check it in and check it out themselves, so it happens way faster. So all that means for you as a digital business guy is better time and faster time to market with more reliable products for your end users and your clients. >> And that's kind of a key, that's kind of what the goal is. So we've got three thus far. This notion of true private cloud, where we need resources where the data demands. This notion of modern data protection, which is to say that the notion of availability is beyond just backup and restore, >> Right. >> Peter: So now the multiple ways to use it. New communities are going to be more closely associated with storage capabilities like the developer world. >> Eric: Right, the DevOps. >> Are there multi-cloud? Are there other kind of strategic business capabilities that CXOs have to think about as they envision their digital business strategy and the role that storage is going to play in either constraining it or facilitating it? >> Well, I think there's a couple things. First of all, you can look at it in three buckets. Item one is that your storage infrastructure, you still may have some of your older tuff. You still may be using Oracle, not yet using Hadoop. And using an Oracle data warehouse versus Hadoop big data analytic workload. >> I hear there's some customers out there that still have z-series installed, running things. >> So, you've got to be able to take the thing and cut costs on your traditional infrastructure, and your traditional applications workloads and use cases, while you're going to the next generation and modernizing. So you want to be able to handle the older workloads and cut their costs, at the same time invest more in things like Hadoop and Spark and Mango. And Cassandra. You want to be able to do both. At the same time, as you create your private cloud infrastructure, you want to be able to use new paragons, such as containers. And if you're going to do that, you want a set of storage solutions, both software and array infrastructure that can support that. And that's a critical element, is being able to A, modernize and cut costs of your older while you're moving to the new. For all your new stuff you want to be out that it's optimized and the DevOps guys can work it and you've got all the right APIs. And then, for the true private cloud, you're going to containerize model just like the public cloud guys do, because you want every advantage for your own digital business that the public does, and we can do all of that, but it's critical that you do all of that continuum, from the newest of the new, to the application in the middle, but you still have the old stuff while you're getting the new stuff up and running. So it's critical, if I'm the CEO, to make sure that my storage does all of that. 'Cuz if I fall down on the old stuff, well that's a problem. I can't bill, I can't invoice, I can't ship things. >> Right. >> If I fall down on the new stuff, guess what? I'm completely uncompetitive. >> Mm hm. >> Right? If I fail on the container world, what I'll call the refactoring of my infrastructure, I've totally lost the game because I'm not making it fast, I'm not making it resilient, I'm not cutting my costs, because everything is cost competitive. If data is the value, everything is built around that data, that doesn't mean you want your data to be super expensive, got to figure a way to do it cost-effectively, yet still deliver the value in your digital business that the end user wants. >> And it's got to be flexibility across the board. Okay, so we've got some strategic capabilities that CXOs have to think about that storage is going to enable. It's February 2018, we're looking at say, October 2019, next 18 months. What's going to be the one or two biggest changes in the storage world do you think? >> Ah, okay. First thing is going to be the automation of storage software across the board. Not just for the storage guy, not that all storage companies don't love the storage guy, but increasingly there's a move to DevOps and other functions. So, while each company is managing eons and eons and eons of more storage capacity, they're not adding eons and eons of storage admins. So you've got to have the docker guy, you've got to have the application guy, be able to backup, be able to optimize their workloads, be able to go ahead and spin up a new container without calling the IT guy, because the IT guys are overworked. So that's item one, is integration with all the coming APIs, automation, self-service are critical. The more it's automated the more self-serve is is, the more you can factor in the non-storage guys into creating a true digital business. That's on number one. Second thing you've got is a new technology known as NVME. This is a very high performance storage interface, it's new to the market, all the big storage vendors are working on it including IMB. We did an announcement on February 20th all about NVME. The value there is more and more applications and workloads, because the performance of the system itself, which is already highly resistant, highly available, and highly capable of handling any failure mode, is it's super fast, which means you can put more and more applications and workloads on a physical infrastructure, which saves you time and saves you money. So those are two critical things. The rise of this automation paradime, and the self-service paired across all of your storage software, and integrating it with your application layer, being able to use real data sets, right, as modern did, and then this new high-performance storage interface that will dramatically allow more workloads for every ounce of storage you buy, saving you money, and also making highly performing to meet your digital business SLAs. >> I think those are two great ones. I'm going to add one more and I'm sure we're going to be talking more about this. I think over the course of the next year and a half we're going to see even greater understanding of the relationship between storage and data, and new rules, new conventions, new approaches to how to think about that relationship so that all this great stuff that's happening when the storage actually does become a strategic business capability. >> Yeah, you could say that storage managing software will morph into data management, or at least a hybrid of partially managing the storage but actually also managing the data. And things like what is the metadata and how can you use metadata to more effectively manage your business. And we're going a whole bunch of that with IBM and we've already announced several things around that, so that's an actually great observation. >> And it's not too far from there to say digital asset management. Not in a traditional marketing sense, but overall how it works. Eric Herzog, CMO, vice president of channels, IMB storage, once again thanks for coming theCUBE and talking to us about some of the things that are going to happen over the next 18 months in the storage world. >> Great, thank you very much, we always apprecite being with you, and thanks again. >> I'm Peter Burris, once again this has been a Cube conversation from our Palo Alto studios with Eric Herzog of IBM. Until next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from New York, it's theCUBE. Covering the IBM Machine Learning Launch Event. Brought to you by IBM. Now, here are your hosts, Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. >> Welcome back to New York City, everybody this is theCUBE, we're here at the IBM Machine Learning Launch Event, Rob Thomas is here, he's the general manager of the IBM analytics group. Rob, good to see you again. >> Dave, great to see you, thanks for being here. >> Yeah it's our pleasure. So two years ago, IBM announced the Z platform, and the big theme was bringing analytics and transactions together. You guys are sort of extending that today, bringing machine learning. So the news just hit three minutes ago. >> Rob: Yep. >> Take us through what you announced. >> This is a big day for us. The announcement is we are going to bring machine learning to private Clouds, and my observation is this, you look at the world today, over 90% of the data in the world cannot be googled. Why is that? It's because it's behind corporate firewalls. And as we've worked with clients over the last few years, sometimes they don't want to move their most sensitive data to the public Cloud yet, and so what we've done is we've taken the machine learning from IBM Watson, we've extracted that, and we're enabling that on private Clouds, and we're telling clients you can get the power of machine learning across any type of data, whether it's data in a warehouse, a database, unstructured content, email, you name it we're bringing machine learning everywhere. To your point, we were thinking about, so where do we start? And we said, well, what is the world's most valuable data? It's the data on the mainframe. It's the transactional data that runs the retailers of the world, the banks of the world, insurance companies, airlines of the world, and so we said we're going to start there because we can show clients how they can use machine learning to unlock value in their most valuable data. >> And which, you say private Cloud, of course, we're talking about the original private Cloud, >> Rob: Yeah. >> Which is the mainframe, right? >> Rob: Exactly. >> And I presume that you'll extend that to other platforms over time is that right? >> Yeah, I mean, we're going to think about every place that data is managed behind a firewall, we want to enable machine learning as an ingredient. And so this is the first step, and we're going to be delivering every quarter starting next quarter, bringing it to other platforms, other repositories, because once clients get a taste of the idea of automating analytics with machine learning, what we call continuous intelligence, it changes the way they do analytics. And, so, demand will be off the charts here. >> So it's essentially Watson ML extracted and placed on Z, is that right? And describe how people are going to be using this and who's going to be using it. >> Sure, so Watson on the Cloud today is IBM's Cloud platform for artificial intelligence, cognitive computing, augmented intelligence. A component of that is machine learning. So we're bringing that as IBM machine learning which will run today on the mainframe, and then in the future, other platforms. Now let's talk about what it does. What it is, it's a single-place unified model management, so you can manage all your models from one place. And we've got really interesting technology that we pulled out of IBM research, called CADS, which stands for the Cognitive Assistance for Data Scientist. And the idea behind CADS is, you don't have to know which algorithm to choose, we're going to choose the algorithm for you. You build your model, we'll decide based on all the algorithms available on open-source what you built for yourself, what IBM's provided, what's the best way to run it, and our focus here is, it's about productivity of data science and data scientists. No company has as many data scientists as they want, and so we've got to make the ones they do have vastly more productive, and so with technology like CADS, we're helping them do their job more efficiently and better. >> Yeah, CADS, we've talked about this in theCUBE before, it's like an algorithm to choose an algorithm, and makes the best fit. >> Rob: Yeah. >> Okay. And you guys addressed some of the collaboration issues at your Watson data platform announcement last October, so talk about the personas who are asking you to give me access to mainframe data, and give me, to tooling that actually resides on this private Cloud. >> It's definitely a data science persona, but we see, I'd say, an emerging market where it's more the business analyst type that is saying I'd really like to get at that data, but I haven't been able to do that easily in the past. So giving them a single pane of glass if you will, with some light data science experience, where they can manage their models, using CADS to actually make it more productive. And then we have something called a feedback loop that's built into it, which is you build a model running on Z, as you get new data in, these are the largest transactional systems in the world so there's data coming in every second. As you get new data in, that model is constantly updating. The model is learning from the data that's coming in, and it's becoming smarter. That's the whole idea behind machine learning in the first place. And that's what we've been able to enable here. Now, you and I have talked through the years, Dave, about IBM's investment in Spark. This is one of the first, I would say, world-class applications of Spark. We announced Spark on the mainframe last year, what we're bringing with IBM machine learning is leveraging Spark as an execution engine on the mainframe, and so I see this as Spark is finally coming into the mainstream, when you talk about Spark accessing the world's greatest transactional data. >> Rob, I wonder if you can help our audience kind of squint through a compare and contrast, public Cloud versus what you're offering today, 'cause one thing, public Cloud adding new services, machine learning seemed like one of those areas that we would add, like IBM had done with a machine learning platform. Streaming, absolutely you hear mobile streaming applications absolutely happened in the public Cloud. Is cost similar in private Cloud? Can I get all the services? How will IBM and your customer base keep up with that pace of innovation that we've seen from IBM and others in the public Cloud on PRIM? >> Yeah, so, look, my view is it's not an either or. Because when you look at this valuable data, clients want to do some of it in public Cloud, they want to keep a lot of it in the system that they built on PRIMA. So our job is, how do we actually bridge that gap? So I see machine learning like we've talked about becoming much more of a hybrid capability over time because the data they want to move to the Cloud, they should do that. The economics are great. The data, doing it on private Cloud, actually the economics are tremendous as well. And so we're delivering an elastic infrastructure on private Cloud as well that can scale the public Cloud. So to me it's not either or, it's about what everybody wants as Cloud features. They want the elasticity, they want a creatable interface, they want the economics of Cloud, and our job is to deliver that in both places. Whether it's on the public Cloud, which we're doing, or on the private Cloud. >> Yeah, one of the thought exercises I've gone through is if you follow the data, and follow the applications, it's going to show you where customers are going to do things. If you look at IOT, if you look at healthcare, there's lots of uses that it's going to be on PRIMA it's going to be on the edge, I got to interview Walmart a couple of years ago at the IBM Ed show, and they leveraged Z globally to use their sales, their enablement, and obviously they're not going to use AWS as their platform. What's the trends, what do you hear form their customers, how much of the data, are there reasons why it needs to stay at the edge? It's not just compliance and governance, but it's just because that's where the data is and I think you were saying there's just so much data on the Z series itself compared to in other environments. >> Yeah, and it's not just the mainframe, right? Let's be honest, there's just massive amounts of data that still sits behind corporate firewalls. And while I believe the end destination is a lot of that will be on public Cloud, what do you do now? Because you can't wait until that future arrives. And so the place, the biggest change I've seen in the market in the last year is clients are building private Clouds. It's not traditional on-premise deployments, it's, they're building an elastic infrastructure behind their firewall, you see it a lot in heavily-regulated industries, so financial services where they're dealing with things like GDPR, any type of retailer who's dealing with things like PCI compliance. Heavy-regulated industries are saying, we want to move there, but we got challenges to solve right now. And so, our mission is, we want to make data simple and accessible, wherever it is, on private Cloud or public Cloud, and help clients on that journey. >> Okay, so carrying through on that, so you're now unlocking access to mainframe data, great, if I have, say, a retail example, and I've got some data science, I'm building some models, I'm accessing the mainframe data, if I have data that's elsewhere in the Cloud, how specifically with regard to this announcement will a practitioner execute on that? >> Yeah, so, one is you could decide one place that you want to land your data and have it be resonant, so you could do that. We have scenarios where clients are using data science experience on the Cloud, but they're actually leaving the data behind the firewalls. So we don't require them to move the data, so our model is one of flexibility in terms of how they want to manage their data assets. Which I think is unique in terms of IBM's approach to that. Others in the market say, if you want to use our tools, you have to move your data to our Cloud, some of them even say as you click through the terms, now we own your data, now we own your insights, that's not our approach. Our view is it's your data, if you want to run the applications in the Cloud, leave the data where it is, that's fine. If you want to move both to the Cloud, that's fine. If you wanted to leave both on private Cloud, that's fine. We have capabilities like Big SQL where we can actually federate data across public and private Clouds, so we're trying to provide choice and flexibility when it comes to this. >> And, Rob, in the context of this announcement, that would be, that example you gave, would be done through APIs that allow me access to that Cloud data is that right? >> Yeah, exactly, yes. >> Dave: Okay. >> So last year we announced something called Data Connect, which is basically, think of it as a bus between private and public Cloud. You can leverage Data Connect to seamlessly and easily move data. It's very high-speed, it uses our Aspera technology under the covers, so you can do that. >> Dave: A recent acquisition. >> Rob, IBM's been very active in open source engagement, in trying to help the industry sort out some of the challenges out there. Where do you see the state of the machine learning frameworks Google of course has TensorFlow, we've seen Amazon pushing at MXNet, is IBM supporting all of them, there certain horses that you have strong feelings for? What are your customers telling you? >> I believe in openness and choice. So with IBM machine learning you can choose your language, you can use Scala, you can use Java, you can use Python, more to come. You can choose your framework. We're starting with Spark ML because that's where we have our competency and that's where we see a lot of client desire. But I'm open to clients using other frameworks over time as well, so we'll start to bring that in. I think the IT industry always wants to kind of put people into a box. This is the model you should use. That's not our approach. Our approach is, you can use the language, you can use the framework that you want, and through things like IBM machine learning, we give you the ability to tap this data that is your most valuable data. >> Yeah, the box today has just become this mosaic and you have to provide access to all the pieces of that mosaic. One of the things that practitioners tell us is they struggle sometimes, and I wonder if you could weigh in on this, to invest either in improving the model or capturing more data and they have limited budget, and they said, okay. And I've had people tell me, no, you're way better off getting more data in, I've had people say, no no, now with machine learning we can advance the models. What are you seeing there, what are you advising customers in that regard? >> So, computes become relatively cheap, which is good. Data acquisitions become relatively cheap. So my view is, go full speed ahead on both of those. The value comes from the right algorithms and the right models. That's where the value is. And so I encourage clients, even think about maybe you separate your teams. And you have one that's focused on data acquisition and how you do that, and another team that's focused on model development, algorithm development. Because otherwise, if you give somebody both jobs, they both get done halfway, typically. And the value is from the right models, the right algorithms, so that's where we stress the focus. >> And models to date have been okay, but there's a lot of room for improvement. Like the two examples I like to use are retargeting, ad retargeting, which, as we all know as consumers is not great. You buy something and then you get targeted for another week. And then fraud detection, which is actually, for the last ten years, quite good, but there's still a lot of false positives. Where do you see IBM machine learning taking that practical use case in terms of improving those models? >> Yeah, so why are there false positives? The issue typically comes down to the quality of data, and the amount of data that you have that's why. Let me give an example. So one of the clients that's going to be talking at our event this afternoon is Argus who's focused on the healthcare space. >> Dave: Yeah, we're going to have him on here as well. >> Excellent, so Argus is basically, they collect data across payers, they're focused on healthcare, payers, providers, pharmacy benefit managers, and their whole mission is how do we cost-effectively serve different scenarios or different diseases, in this case diabetes, and how do we make sure we're getting the right care at the right time? So they've got all that data on the mainframe, they're constantly getting new data in, it could be about blood sugar levels, it could be about glucose, it could be about changes in blood pressure. Their models will get smarter over time because they built them with IBM machine learning so that what's cost-effective today may not be the most effective or cost-effective solution tomorrow. But we're giving them that continuous intelligence as data comes in to do that. That is the value of machine learning. I think sometimes people miss that point, they think it's just about making the data scientists' job easier, that productivity is part of it, but it's really about the voracity of the data and that you're constantly updating your models. >> And the patient outcome there, I read through some of the notes earlier, is if I can essentially opt in to allow the system to adjudicate the medication or the claim, and if I do so, I can get that instantaneously or in near real-time as opposed to have to wait weeks and phone calls and haggling. Is that right, did I get that right? >> That's right, and look, there's two dimensions. It's the cost of treatment, so you want to optimize that, and then it's the effectiveness. And which one's more important? Well, they're both actually critically important. And so what we're doing with Argus is building, helping them build models where they deploy this so that they're optimizing both of those. >> Right, and in the case, again, back to the personas, that would be, and you guys stressed this at your announcement last October, it's the data scientist, it's the data engineer, it's the, I guess even the application developer, right? Involved in that type of collaboration. >> My hope would be over time, when I talked about we view machine learning as an ingredient across everywhere that data is, is you want to embed machine learning into any applications that are built. And at that point you no longer need a data scientist per se, for that case, you can just have the app developer that's incorporating that. Whereas another tough challenge like the one we discussed, that's where you need data scientists. So think about, you need to divide and conquer the machine learning problem, where the data scientist can play, the business analyst can play, the app developers can play, the data engineers can play, and that's what we're enabling. >> And how does streaming fit in? We talked earlier about this sort of batch, interactive, and now you have this continuous sort of work load. How does streaming fit? >> So we use streaming in a few ways. One is very high-speed data ingest, it's a good way to get data into the Cloud. We also can do analytics on the fly. So a lot of our use case around streaming where we actually build analytical models into the streaming engine so that you're doing analytics on the fly. So I view that as, it's a different side of the same coin. It's kind of based on your use case, how fast you're ingesting data if you're, you know, sub-millisecond response times, you constantly have data coming in, you need something like a streaming engine to do that. >> And it's actually consolidating that data pipeline, is what you described which is big in terms of simplifying the complexity, this mosaic of a dupe, for example and that's a big value proposition of Spark. Alright, we'll give you the last word, you've got an audience outside waiting, big announcement today; final thoughts. >> You know, we talked about machine learning for a long time. I'll give you an analogy. So 1896, Charles Brady King is the first person to drive an automobile down the street in Detroit. It was 20 years later before Henry Ford actually turned it from a novelty into mass appeal. So it was like a 20-year incubation period where you could actually automate it, you could make it more cost-effective, you could make it simpler and easy. I feel like we're kind of in the same thing here where, the data era in my mind began around the turn of the century. Companies came onto the internet, started to collect a lot more data. It's taken us a while to get to the point where we could actually make this really easy and to do it at scale. And people have been wanting to do machine learning for years. It starts today. So we're excited about that. >> Yeah, and we saw the same thing with the steam engine, it was decades before it actually was perfected, and now the timeframe in our industry is compressed to years, sometimes months. >> Rob: Exactly. >> Alright, Rob, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. Good luck with the announcement today. >> Thank you. >> Good to see you again. >> Thank you guys. >> Alright, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be right back with our next guest, we're live from the Waldorf Astoria, the IBM Machine Learning Launch Event. Be right back. [electronic music]