(click) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. It's 2018. We just got out of the CES show and all the rage is autonomous vehicles. You can't get away from it. It's what everybody's talking about. Tesla just announced their autonomous truck, their autonomous Roadster. We're here in Palo Alto, right on San Antonio Road. Googleplex and Waymo's are right up the street. So everyone is all about autonomous vehicles, but we're excited to be here at Phantom Auto and they're taking a slightly different approach for a slightly different problem. We're excited to have Shai Magzimof. He's the co-founder and CEO of Phantom Auto. Shai, great to see you. >> Nice talking to you, yeah. Thanks for having me. >> So Phantom Auto, you guys just got back from CES. You were giving demos, but you weren't stuck in, like, the little lane that was protected. You were actually driving people all over the streets. >> We were driving on the Strip, yeah, yeah. We actually were picking people from the hotel lobby, so the valet guys would let us in with an empty vehicle. These videos are actually also online, and we drove them off the Strip and back to the hotel, or to another destination. >> So you're doing a whole different thing. You do not have an autonomous vehicle. >> It's not an autonomous vehicle. >> You were the ultimate chauffeur driven vehicle. >> Right. Right. So again, for the show, we did our job to show that the vehicle can drive without a driver in the driver's seat, but what we do is actually a safety solution for autonomous vehicles. And that safety is basically what happens if an autonomous vehicle artificial intelligence doesn't work. Let's say there's something that it cannot see, or something that, you know, an unidentified object, road construction areas, severe weather conditions, all this stuff happens all the time. And autonomous vehicles may struggle with the situation so Phantom Auto provides a solution that we work with these companies. We provide them that solution that allows remote operations, so someone will connect remotely. >> So let's back up a couple steps. Autonomous vehicles are meant for no driver. You guys have a driver but you're really assisted driving with a person from a remote location. So how do you describe that in a short category? I'm sure the analysts will want you to have a category. >> The category would be the same way you think about air traffic control, right, or any type of control center, like call control centers. Any type of support for customers, you would have a bunch of people sitting in front of computers, in our case they're sitting at computers with steering wheels, we'll see that later, and they can connect to a vehicle remotely, and when they move the steering wheel or press the gas or brake, it would actually happen in realtime. So we have this software that allows this realtime, critical communication for autonomous vehicles. >> Now what's weird is when we first heard about you guys, I'm thinking, okay what is the use case? Am I going to send the Phantom Auto to go pick up my hundred-year old grandfather who probably shouldn't be driving anymore, where you're escorting it. But really it's a very different application, and I don't think most people understand that, in autonomous vehicles, there's a whole lot of use cases still that they haven't quite figured out. My favorite one is when two of them pull up to a four-way stop, and neither of them wants to go first. They get stuck in a friendly lock, right, they get paper-logger, some poor kid has his foot in the intersection and is trying to wave the car through and it won't go through. So it's corner cases that you guys are all about, to really enable that next-stage of machinery. >> When I started a company, right, I'm a big believer in autonomous vehicle, I wanted to make them happen faster and sooner because it's life-saving technology. This is going to change the world. We all want it faster. Now, the reason why we're still not there yet is because there are many corner cases, edge cases, these situations where the machine didn't train enough for, and in this situation they provide a cover. So we have a person that would sit in an office, he doesn't have to be so close nearby. When we were in Vegas a couple weeks ago, the driver was in Mountain View, so Mountain View, California, Silicon Valley to Vegas, and he moves the steering wheel and he moves it real time. >> But he's driving the car. >> Yeah. >> So one of the great knocks on cloud, right, is latency, and clearly the use case that's always brought up is if you're in a self-driving car, you don't have time for the data to get it to the cloud and back to make a decision if a little ball rolls out into the street. So latency is a big issue. How do you guys deal with the latency issue? >> That's our secret sauce, obviously, but I'm happy to share as much as I can. The high level description would be, we connect multiple networks at the same time. We would usually have only AT&T in your cellphone, right, or in your car, and then we have AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, and a few networks, all of these together are bonded, and once they're bonded they get a much stronger connection. It sounds maybe easy, okay so let's plug a few phones and then get a really good connection, but it's much more complicated than that. We share and split the data across multiple networks at the same time, we prioritize the data. So, like a brake, it's very important, right, so if the remote operator is pressing the brake, you want it to be first in the vehicle, where the right side of the camera is not as critical, so lower latency for the brake, and then a little bit higher latency for something less important. >> So you've got dynamic, kind of, latent distribution. >> It's all dynamic, realtime, you know, so that's what we do, our real core. We provide this communication, real time, critical layer of communication for the video streaming and back of the data from the remote operator, back and forth all the time. >> So that's one big piece of it. Another big piece of it is the communications between the occupants in the vehicle and the driver. Another really important piece that obviously most people aren't thinking about for autonomous vehicles because they don't have that use case. But that's a pretty important piece of your solution. >> Yeah, that's a big one. I'd say that for this, you don't need to do a lot of innovation. It could be a simple call with the driver remotely. But, we're all about safety, right, and we're all about giving passengers this psychological trust, and it is true, you want to sit in a car that drives 100% of the time. If I tell you that your car today would go in and drives only 95% of the time, you would not buy this car. Same thing with autonomous vehicles. So we provide a safety and service layer. On the safety side, it's about assisting the vehicle when there's an emergency. It could be post-emergency or before it happens. Let's say you're just stuck in the middle of the lane and you don't know what happens. Even if the driver remotely wouldn't actually drive the car, you still want to be able to talk to somebody, right. So, I'd start with first the person, the driver, the human being would greet you when you enter the vehicle. It's an autonomous vehicle, he would say hello, how are you, nice to meet you, my name is let's say Ben- >> Ben is going to be your driver. >> Your driver soon, and Ben is going to tell you that whenever you have a problem, if you need any assistance, he would be there for you. That already gives you like a whole different type of experience, and when you leave the vehicle too, he's not going to be there all the time engaged with the car. The car is going to drive on an autonomous AV system, but at least he's there in case you need him. >> And again, the attention thing, which is an issue, you see with some of the test autonomous cars out there we were talking before we turned the cameras on, where the engineer's got his hands ready to grab the wheel if there's an emergency. That's not really Ben's role here. The car is going to take evasive action in terms of emergency. It's more to get out of like these weird corner cases as you said. >> Correct, it's not a test driver. Today, most autonomous vehicle companies still require and mandate it, it's actually illegal. By the regs, you have to have a person in the car. We also have a person in the car, and we do that same thing, although when Ben is driving, he's not replacing that person. He's just assisting when the autonomous vehicle system would have an issue. >> Right. So the next thing I think that's pretty interesting about your company, as you said, you're a software company. There is hardware components, you can see the back of the car, we'll take some film of the driving station, but you use a lot of off the shelf, really simple hardware to execute this. There's Logitech, little steering wheels are over there, it feels like a big video game, you've got the big, curved Samsung screens, basic cameras on the car, so talk about the opportunity to build a software company and you're leveraging somebody else's autonomous vehicle technology to really get in the middle of this with just software, a pretty cool opportunity. >> I'll tell you what. The best time of my life was earlier this year, when I was just putting this whole thing together because it was plugging in the hardware and the software, I did it together with a team that's also here in the office. Obviously, it was more challenging because from a software person to try and build this hardware, you know, is more challenging, but I'd say today, you can get anything on Amazon, you buy on eBay a part you need, you plug it in and it would just work. So, again, we did a lot of iteration, I'd say we spent a bit more money than we were supposed to. But, that works. >> Right. And then the last piece of the puzzle that I think is fascinating is the way you're going to integrate in with other people's autonomous vehicle, so again, we talked about Waymo up the street, the Google one, Uber is working on theirs, Volvo, every day you read about BMW, et cetera et cetera, so you really get to take advantage of those hardware systems, the sensor systems, the control systems, not only from those autonomous vehicles, but you're seeing now all this stuff that's coming in factory, right, avoidance collision and radar and all types of sensors, so you will have to be able to take advantage of those different platforms and integrate your system into those various platforms. >> Right. So we would work with a company, let's say if it's one of the big OEMs or ride-sharing companies, we would know how their vehicle is set up, all we need for our solution to work is a bunch of cameras and a few modems, right, so cameras everybody have, it's one of the most essential things in an autonomous vehicle- >> Right, right. >> We would just tag into these cameras, use the modems that we need for the software to run, and that's about it. So it's a pretty straightforward solution to allow remote control assistant for autonomous vehicles. >> I'm just curious, when you're talking to customers or potential partners, what is the piece that really resonates with them when you kind of explain your solution and how it fits with what they're trying to accomplish? >> Right, so our solution is really trying to help them reach market faster, so we're not replacing anybody's work. We're adding another layer of support and safety so when yous computer crashed, when your software crashed in the car, we're going to be there with another redundancy system to support with a driver remotely. So, that's what we do at the service level. >> Okay, so can I go take a drive? >> Yeah, sure. Let's do it. >> All right, we're going to check it out, we're going to take a drive. We'll see you in the car. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>Welcome back everyone to the Cube's live coverage of snowflake summit 22, we are live in Las Vegas. Caesar's forum, Lisa Martin, Dave Valante, Dave. This is day one of a lot of wall action on the, >>Yeah. A lot of content on day one. It, it feels like, you know, the, the reinvent fire hose yes. Of announcements feels like a little mini version of that. >>It does. That's a good, that's a good way of putting it. We've been unpacking a lot of the news. That's come out, stick around, lots more coming. We've got two guests joining us from tech systems global services. Please welcome Devon. Pania managing director and Shai Sheva of us senior and Shire. Shrivastava senior manager, guys. Great to have you on the cube. >>Thank you so much. Good to see you. And it's great to be in person. Finally, it's been a long UE, so excited to be here. >>Agree. The keynote this morning was not only standing room only, but there was an overflow area. >>Oh my goodness. We have a hard time getting in and it is unbelievable announcement that we have heard looking forward for an exciting time. Next two days here >>Absolutely exciting. The, the cannon shotgun of announcements this morning was amazing. The innovation that has been happening at snowflake and you know, this clearly as partner has been, it just seems like it's the innovation flywheel is getting faster and faster and faster. Talk to us a little bit, Devon about tech systems. Give us the audience a little bit of an overview of the company, and then talk to us about the partnership with snowflake. >>Sure. Thank you. Lisa tech system global services is a full stack global system integrator working with 8% of fortune 500 customers helping in accelerating their business as well as technology modernization journey. We have been a snowflake partner since 2019, and we are one of the highest accredited sales and technical certification with snowflake. And that's what we have earned as a elite partner or sorry, emerging partner with snowflake last year. And we are one of the top elite partner as well. >>Yeah. So since 2019, I mean, in the keynote this morning, Frank showed it. I think Christian showed it as well in terms of the amount of, of change innovation that's happened since 2019 Ellen, we were talking before we went live to share about the, the last two years, the acceleration of innovation cloud adoption digital transformation. The last two years is kind of knock your head back. You need a yeah. A whiplash collar to deal with that. Talk about what you've seen in the last three years, particularly with the partnership and how quickly they are moving and listening to their customers. >>Yeah. Yeah. I think last two years really has given pretty much every organization, including us and our customers a complete different perspective. And that's, that's the exact thing which Christian was talking about, you know, disruption, that's the that's that has been the core message, which we have seen and we've got it from the customers. And we have worked on that right from the get go. We have, you know, all our tools and technology. We are working hand in hand with snowflake in terms of our offerings, working with customers, we have tools. We talk about, you know, accelerators quote unquote that's that helps our customers, you know, to take it from on-prem systems to all the way to the snowflake data cloud and that too, you know, fraction of seconds. You talk about data, you talk about, you know, code conversion, you talk about data validation. So, you know, there are ample amount of things, you know, in terms of, you know, innovation, all workload, I've heard, you know, those are the buzzwords today, and those are like such an exciting time out here. >>So before the pandemic, you know, digital transformation, it was, it was sort of a thing, but it was, it was also a lot of complacency around it. And then of course, if you weren't in a digital business, you were out of the business and boom. So you talked to bang about the stack. You guys obviously do a lot in cloud migration. What's changed in cloud migration. And how is the stack evolving to accommodate that? >>That's a great question there when last two years, it's absolutely a game changer in terms of the digital transformation. Can we believe that 90% of world's data that we have produced and captured is in last two years? It's, isn't that amazing? Right. And what IDC is predicting by 20 25, 200 terabytes of data is going to be generated. And most of them is going to be unstructured. And what we are fascinated about is only 0.5% of unstructured data is currently analyzed by the organization to look at the immense opportunity in front of us and with Snowflake's data cloud, as well as some of the retail data cloud finance and healthcare data cloud launching, it's going to immensely help in processing that unstructured data and really bring life to the data in making organization and market leader. >>Quick, quick fall, if I could, why is, is such a small, why is so much data dark and not accessible to organizations? What's >>The, that's a, that's a great question. I think it's a legacy that we have been trained such a way that data has to be structured. It needs to be modeled, but last decade or so we have seen note it hasn't required that way. And all the social media data being generated, how we communicate in a world is all arm structure, right? We don't create structured data and put it into the CSV and things like that. It's just a natural human behavior. And I think that's where we see a lot of potential in mining that dataset and bringing, you know, AI ML capabilities from descriptive to diagnostic analysis, moving forward with prescriptive and predictive analytics. And that's what we heard from snowflake in Christian announce, Hey, machine learning workload is going to be the key lot of investment happening last 10 years. Now it's going to, you know, capitalize on those ROI in making quick decisions. >>Should you talk to me about those customer conversations? Obviously they have they've transformed and evolved considerably. Yeah. But for customers that have this tremendous amount of unstructured data, a lot of potential as you talked about dung, but there's gotta be, it's gotta be a daunting task. Oh yeah. But these days, every company has to be a data company to be successful, to be competitive and to deliver the experience that the demanding consumers expect. Yeah. How do you start with customers? Where do they start? What's that conversation like and how can tech systems help them get rid of that kind of that daunting iceberg, if you will and get around >>It. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think you got the right point there. Unstructured data is just the tip of the iceberg we are talking about and we have just scratched little surface of it, you know, it's it's and as the one was mentioning earlier, it's, it's gone out those days, you know, where we are talking about, you know, gigabytes of data or, you know, terabytes. Now we are talking about petabytes and Zab bytes of data, and there are so many, and that's, that's the data insight we are looking for and what else, you know, what best platform you can get better than, you know, snowflake data cloud. You have everything in there. You talk about programmability today. You know, Christian was talking about snow park, you know, that, that gives you all the cutting edge languages. You talk about Java, you talk about scale, you talk about Python, you know, all those languages. >>I mean, there were days when these languages, you need to bring that data to a separate platform, process it and then connect it. Now it is right there. You can connect it and just process it. So I think that's, that's the beginning. And to start the conversation, we always, you know, go ahead and talk to the customers and, you know, understand their perspective, know where they want to start, you know, what are their pain points and where they, they want to go, you know, what's their end goal, you know, how they want to pro proceed, you know, how they want to mature in terms of, you know, data agility and flexibility and you know, how do they want to offer their customers? So that's, that's the basically, you know, that's our, the path forward and that's how we see it. >>And just, >>Just to add on top of that, Dave, sorry about that. What we have seen with our customers, the legacy mindset of creating the data silos, primarily because it's not that they wanted it that way, but there were limitations in terms of either the infrastructure or the unlimited scalability and flexibility and accent extensibility, right? That's why those kind of, you know, work around has been built. But with snowflake unified data cloud platform, you have everything in unified platform and what we are telling our customers, we need to eliminate the Datalog. Yes, data is a new oil, but we need to make sure that you eliminate the Datalog within the enterprise, as well as outside the enterprise to really combine then and get a, you know, valuable insight to be the market leader. >>You know, when the cube started, it was 2010. And I remember we went to Hadoop world and it was a lot of excitement around big data and yes, and it turned out, it didn't quite live up to the expectations. That's an understatement, but we, we learned a lot and we made some strides and, and now we're sort of entering this, this new era, but you know, the, the, the last era was largely this big batch job right now, today. You're seeing real time, you know, we've, we've projected out real time in, is gonna become more and more of a thing. How do you guys see the, the sort of data patterns changing and again, where do you see snowflake fitting in? >>Yeah. Great question. And they, what I would have to say, just in a one word is removing the complexity and moving towards the simplicity. Why the legacy solutions such as big data didn't really work out well, it had all the capabilities, but it was a complex environment. You need to really be, you know, knowing a lot of technical aspect of it. And your data analyst were struggling with that kind of a tool set. So with snowflake simplicity, you can bring citizen data scientists, you can bring your data scientists, you can bring your data analysts, all of them under one platform, and they can all mine the data because it's all sitting in the one environment, are >>You seeing organizations change the way they architect their data teams? And specifically, are you seeing a decentralization of data teams or you see, you mentioned citizen data scientists, are you seeing lines of business take more ownership of the data or is it still cuz again, that big data era created this data science role, the data engineering role, the data pipeline, and it was sort of an extension of the sort of EDW. We had a, a few people, maybe one or two experts who knew how to use the system and you build cubes. And it was sort of a, you know, in order of magnitude more complex than that could maybe do more, but are you seeing it being pushed out to the lines of business? >>That's a great question. And I think what we are seeing in the organization today is this time is absolutely both it and business coming together, hand in hand. It's not that, Hey, it, you do this data pipeline work. And then I will analyze this data. And then we'll, you know, share the dashboards to the CEO. We are seeing more and more cohesiveness within the organization in making a path forward in making the decision intelligence very, very rapid. So I think that's a great change. We don't need to operate in silos. I think it's coming together. And I think it's going to create a win-win combination for our >>Customers. Just to add one more point, what the one has mentioned. I think it's the world of data democratization we are talking about, you know, data is available there, insights. We need to pull it out and you know, just give it to every consumer of the organization and they're ready to consume it. They are, they are hungry. They are ready to take it. You know, that's, that's, that's something, you know, we need to look forward for. >>Well, absolutely look forward to it. And as you talked about, there's so much potential it's we see the tip of the iceberg, right? There's so much underneath that guys. I wish we had more time to continue unpacking this, but thank you so much for joining Dave and me on the program, talking about tech systems and snowflake, what you guys are doing together and what you're enabling those end customers to achieve. We appreciate your insights. >>Yeah. Thank you so much. It's an exciting time for us. And we have been, you know, partnering with snowflake on retail data cloud launch, as well as some upcoming opportunity with manufacturing and also the financial competency that we have earned. So I think it's a great time for us ahead in future. So >>Excellent. Lots to come from Texas systems guys. Thank you. We appreciate your time. Thank you. >>Appreciate it. Thank you. Let it snow. I would say let >>It snow, snow. Let it snow. I like that. You're heard of your life from hot Las Vegas for our guests and Dave ante. I'm Lisa Martin. We are live in Las Vegas. It's not snowing. It's very hot here. We're at the snowflake summit, 22 covering that stick around Dave and I will be joined where next guests in just a moment.

>>Live from Denver, Colorado. It's the cube covering comm vault. Go 2019 brought to you by Combolt. >>Welcome to the cube Lisa Martin, the stupid a man live on day one of Combalt go 19 we're in Colorado this year and we're excited to welcome to the Cape for the first time we have Matt Shai, VP of strategic pricing at Combalt. Matt, welcome. Thanks for having me here. So lots of news coming out yesterday and today. You know in the last student, I've had a number of conversations today already about just how much evolution has happened with Convault in this calendar year alone and list came in, you know when Sanjay took over con ball, you've got to upgrade your sales force. We've seen the sales leadership changes, I said enhance your marketing. We've seen new routes to market partner focus expansion into, you know, really expanding the Tamworth Hedvig acquisition. Talk to us a little bit about from a pricing perspective, a strategic perspective. What are you guys doing? What's new this year that you guys are really saying, Hey, we're listening to our customers, we're listening to our partners. >>So there's two parts to it. The first is really just making things simpler and easier for everybody. So we started that journey last year. Sanjay came in and said keep it going, so we need to continue to go to market simplification, make it easier for people. So we've tried to do that as much as possible. We're going to continue to do that. Whether it's packaging related pricing related, make it quicker for customers and partners to get access to the software. The second part to that is when we release new products like activate, we've talked a lot about activate over the last couple of days. We have new packaging for that, which is exciting, but we need to make sure that's accessible. So making that easy for our partners to get to it, cross selling and upselling, that kind of thing for everybody to have access to. So that's really the direction that we've gotten from Sanjay and as we get into the future, it's continuing that with things like vague and metallic and and all that. >>Anything particular about activate a, you know, what differentiates, how that pricing package versus how come might've done to that stuff in the back. It's the granularity of it is what it is. So come fall. One of the great things that we can do here is we can be flexible and Sanjay talked a lot about that in his main stage presentation this morning. And we can give a customer the ability to do what they want, when they want and how they want. So they've purchased from comm vault in the past. Likely they have different routes that they bought from and activate gives them the ability to buy in that same manner. So it's granular, it gives them the ability to get software when they need it, the type of software they need, but in the manner they want to buy it as well. So that's the exciting parts of it. >>So we had a chat with Rob earlier talking about metallic and your how, how that sass product was put together. Well customers have a lot of experience now with, with sass. So tell us from a pricing and packaging standpoint, your involvement and what customers they're going to see when it comes to metallic. Yes, we're directly involved with the pricing. We wanted to make sure that it aligns with everything we stand for as a pricing organization at con vault. And I'm excited about it because we've never really had a straight SAS product that's like go to the website, get the price, download it, good to go. Right. It's exciting. I'm, I'm, I can't wait to have it out there. I can't wait for customers to go get it and download it. The booth has been really, really slammed today from what I've heard. So I'm excited about the pricing. >>All right. And there's a couple of different pricing models depending on how they're doing. Maybe you could walk us through that. Yeah, sure. So you have three different options that you can buy. Each one gives you a different use case. So you have backup endpoint, mailbox, all that O three 65 different things you can buy. They all start at one particular price point and they're tiered. So the bigger you get, the more of a discount you get. The other cool thing that we can do here, because we do different use cases, which is sometimes different than competitors, is that you get a family discount with Convault. So if you buy one and you get to a high enough level, you can go into another one and into another one and get that same discount. So we're really trying to get customers to use as much as they can, get them accessible and we hope they like it. >>Where were customers in terms of when this was being conceived? You know, just not just metallic from a product and a technology perspective, but from a consumption subscription perspective where they actively, I would imagine certain customers like maybe part of an advisory board helping you guys determine this is kind of a new direction for calm ball, where they talked to us about the influence that some of these key customers had and really enabling this pricing to be so transparent. >>We had, it was, it wasn't even just customers. There was a lot of people who had influence into that. So industry, influencers, financial and flood, a lot of people had a lot of influence and a lot of input into how we do it because obviously everybody has a way that they like to buy. Customers had a big input cause as we started this, one of the first things we came through was how do we make sure that the packaging looks good. And that was one of the first core deliverables cause everything sort of runs off that. Make sure that it looks right, make sure it's accessible to customers and easy. So that was one of the first things we did was go out surveys, customer surveys, input data points, all that really started the process. And Matt metallic is 100% through the channels. So tell us a little bit about how that works for a SAS offering. >>Yeah. So through the channel for us is going to be fantastic because we want to make sure that our partners can sell it to folks. That was one of the biggest things our customers came back with was we like to buy through our, our partner. Like, we don't have to go do all bunch of different things, so great, you should go out and buy from your partner. They have access to it. It's easy to understand. It's easy to price, easy to package, and there really shouldn't be a whole lot of worrying about it from a customer standpoint. Quicken, painless. Yeah. And the other thing I understand if it's core, it's by capacity. If it's the O three 65 for endpoint on, it's based on your number of users. There's that piece in there that if I have my own cloud storage, I can leverage that. >>So is that just a different pricing, cause I didn't see that piece on the website. How does that impact thing? Yeah, so it really is about flexibility. Like if you want to use ours, you can and that's fine. If you have your own and you want to go use that, that's fine too. Like we're not really, we don't want to lock anybody into something that they may not need or want. So if you already have a contract with one of the cloud providers, you're free to go and use that. And we're not gonna worry about it. If you want to go do it through us and that's great, we'll, we'll work with you on that. So metallic focused on the mid market, but combo has a really good percentage of revenue that comes from a large global enterprise accounts. You guys had made some leadership changes there, new initiatives on these large global enterprises and some that are going to be fulfilled and delivered exclusively through I think global systems integrators. >>We do have a GSI program that from a, from a strategic perspective, knowing so much business comes through the channel for those really large enterprise accounts. What's that strategic pricing conversation concept all about? Yes, so that one's a little bit different. That's, we have so many different things that we do. We have metallic, we have Hedvig obviously that we just acquired. We have Comvalt complete and all the different things we do. So from an enterprise standpoint, it's how do we get the right go to market for them, which is potentially a systems integrator if they, if they go that route. Larger partners, potentially. Some of our Alliance partners are key to that as well. And then there's the, how do we make it easy for them to buy all that technology in one so that they don't have to have five different things that they're buying from comm vault. >>So that is the roadmap discussion. So how do we get from here to there and make sure that they have easy access to that. So that's part of the conversation we're having now. But it's the first thing that's on my mind every morning and my team works on it every day. So as we, as we integrate Hedvig, as Metalla comes into market, obviously we have appliances and different routes there. Those all have to be easy. So if you're a customer and you want to buy five of them, it's like quick and painless for you to buy all five. And it's a, it's an easy model for an enterprise. So that's how we like that to go. How does it work with, say, let's look at the Hedvig acquisition as an example. They come and bring in customers. They announced the acquisition in September, it's closed. You're already working on integrations touches a little bit about from a strategic perspective when, when there's an acquisition, there's customers that are on certain, you know they've got certain contracts. >>How do you take all of that past experience from the incoming company and start kind of massaging those pricing, pricing, the structure to now fit and be delivered through a combo? Yeah, it's a great question. That's one of the things that we're starting to work on now, which is how do we take all those different price points and packaging and work them in? We've done a little bit of it, so we've integrated what had vague guys into our portfolio in terms of it's there through con vaults, so there they're the same BS, the same support. They'll say maintenance the same everything in that respect, which is great. They're going to align to combat and that way, but really the next step is going to be exactly what you said, which is how do we put those two together so we don't want to keep them apart. >>We don't want to. You can buy Hedvig and then you can buy combo all. We want them to be the same and so the longterm vision for that will be to do that. We haven't gotten there yet. That's the next plan with Hedvig integration is to take those customers and say, how did you buy it? What did you like, what didn't you like? And then we can take that feedback and really use it to package up a solution. I'm curious how the changes in the public cloud have been impacting your line of work. You know, for example, we watched the AWS marketplace and they have more and more customers buying through them. Last year they came out with the, I forget what they call it, just like the private buying so that you can, even if you have a special arrangement, you can still buy it through the AWS marketplace. >>Is that, are you seeing that as a trend or customer's interest in that is Combalt looking down that path? Yeah, they're interested in it and certainly will enable people to go do it. It hasn't been a huge focus yet in terms of price. Right? Because a lot of the things that we have that are priced are already aligned to how they should be in the cloud. So when we sell something like a VM for example, it's kind of aligned to how they buy it anyway. So we haven't seen a huge change in how people would do that. It's more as we get more into the cloud and multi-cloud with Sanjay's vision, we'll start to see some more go to market perspectives that are like that. And the routes to market will change a little bit, but we're set up for it already from a pricing standpoint. So it's not going to be a big change. >>So as we look at the momentum that Combalt carries into their fourth annual go with how much leadership change, we talked about that the routes to market and things, what are some of you think the bar has been set? Like, all right, we've got to figure this out. For example, the, the, the simplification of the Hedvig combat structure. Is there kind of an expectation that as fast as there no iterating and delivering on technology, you've gotta be able to do the same from a pricing standpoint. Yep. >>Everything you won't need to do on technology. I need to be just as fast on pricing. Yeah, there's definitely that expectation and that's a great expectation. I mean, we can't have the technology lag, we can't have the pricing like it has to be, it has to go at the same time. And that's, so we're, we're tight with all the folks who were doing that had big integration, making sure that we're aligned to it. There's absolutely that expectation. But I loved that expectation because what we have to get it out at the same time and that's great. >>It does. Will it? Well, it, it makes things interesting and exciting. The customers are demanding this transparency because if we think about it in our consumer lives, we have transparency. I mean, think about buying a car these days as the consumer, you're so empowered with whatever you want to buy. And there's this expectation, right as as an it buyer that they have the same type of transparency and the same type of simplified pricing structure. So you've got to be able to deliver to meet that too, right? >>We do. And there's no black box anymore. Like when I first started doing this a long time ago, it was like here's a product, here's a black box, here's, you'll buy it from your partner that's gone. Like they need to know exactly what goes into that. So transparency, we talk a lot about it from a pricing standpoint. It used to be like, don't talk about pricing, right? Cause that nobody knew. We should really know what happens in there. Everybody knows what happens in there now and they should, I mean it's their money. So we need to make sure that they understand how they're spending it, why they should be spending it with one vendor versus another, and then what's going to be good for them in the longterm. So we talk a lot about that from a strategy standpoint. >>Well that's actually something that could be a competitive differentiator for cobalt. Right? Compare if there are others who are saying, you know, secret sauce, talk to sales. That can be with how quickly things change. A new these days, that transparency can be a real game changer in the customer's experience. >>It can be. And one of the, so I came from a background of competitive intelligence when I did, I worked at a firm for a long time and CII and so I was told by my boss at the time, he said, don't be the department of Rob, Rob. He's a department of facts, right? And so as a pricing person, it's the department of facts. I'll tell you as a customer, this is good, this is coming, this is where we are now. All that stuff. And it's up to you to make a decision. Like it's, you know, it's there, the facts are there. The pricing we think is structured in a way that helps you and support you, but you're free to make a decision. I don't want to force anything on you. And so that's for me and my group, that's where our transparency kind of lives. As we know customers have to buy. We know they have options. They're not always going to choose Convolt. We'd like them to, but they're not going to, and we just try to make that as easy as possible and make it a painless problem. Make it a painless solution. >>Right. Easy and painless. I'll take it now. Thank you for joining Stu and me and talking to us about what you're doing and how quickly things are iterating all the way from the technologies to the pricing structure. We appreciate your time. Thanks for having me. All right. Firstly, men and men, I N Lisa Martin, and you're watching the cube vault go in 19.

(orchestral music) >> Hello there and welcome to this special CUBEConversation. I'm John Furrier, here in theCUBE Studios, in Palo Alto, California. I'm here with special guest, Shawn Douglass, who's the Founder and CEO of Amberdata, Amberdata.io. It's a hot blockchain-based analytics startup kind of taking a different approach. I obviously would like to highlight some of the startups that are doing pretty amazing things. Shawn welcome to this CUBEConversation >> Great, thank you very much for having me here. >> So you have an enterprise background. You're entrepreneur, technical, been a CTO at EMC. You've helped EMC run their venture capital firms over the years. Helped them build it up from scratch. Done a variety of startups. Kind of cloud, kind of like large-scale. Now doing the blockchain startup. That's, I find super interesting. I think you might have more there than you think, but that's my opinion seeing the demo. Folks watching Amberdata.io is the site. Let's talk about that, I mean obviously blockchain, we've been covering pretty heavily recently with theCUBE. We've been covering Bitcoin since 2010 on our blog SiliconANGLE.com But you're seeing a renaissance in software development, with cloud computing, but now you start to see a new wave coming. We've been documenting. We've been calling it, you know, the future of money, the future of work, the future of infrastructure, because what blockchain and decentralized applications are doing is changing the stack a bit. And you've been in, in many, involved in those waves, so you're at the heart of it. So I got to ask you, you know, as an entrepreneur, before we get into what your company does, I want to just get your take on, you know, I mean, you kind of look at this market and say, it's a wide-open space. >> Right. >> As an entrepreneur who's doing a start-up, what's it like? What's your view? And how do you see the marketplace evolving? >> Yeah, that's a great question, there's a lot there. Let me try to unpack that the best that I can. So having gone between startup to big company to investor, helped buy, build, sell, in companies and operating for as long as I have in Silicon Valley. I think, as you said, technology and innovation happen in waves. And I think that waves are mini-revolutions, if you will. And I think that revolutions are about addressing a fundamental human need. If we look at, look to history, to see where the future is going. If you look at the Industrial Revolution, it was about automation and supply, I mean, uh production chains, and to be able to produce things at scale. If you look at the Information Age it was about the ability to communicate, and the servers and the networks and the web 2.0 companies that arose out of that, was around communication. That was another major wave. If you look at what's happening with AI right now, and self-driving cars, that's about the ability, for the need to think, right? And you're starting to see algorithms and machine learning applied to Google self-driving cars, and you know, just about every facet of our life AI is touching, you're using Siri at home, whatever you're using. I think what we're seeing with blockchain is that next wave. It's that next revolution, and that revolution I believe is about trust, and about decentralization. So, coming out of web 2.0 we saw participatory and non-participatory consolidations, in creation of juggernauts of technology. The Facebooks of the world, the Amazons of the world. On the other side, the Equifaxes of the world, where you didn't opt-in, in exchange for being the product, to use their platform, they just got your data. We've seen violation of that trust in data breaches, you know, at every major player, you know. Equifax being the bad guy in this case, where they've lost every single citizen in the United States data, and we never benefited from that, but we carry the liability forward. And what we're seeing with blockchain is the ability for people to leverage decentralized platforms and smart contract platforms, specifically, as mechanisms to easily deploy with zero barrier to entry. These, you know, these smart contract vending machines, if you will, into a world where people are taking back trust. So I, that's what we see, and we see that opportunity across both the enterprise space, 'cause we're hard core enterprise people, that we're building member data, but we're also seeing new enterprises being created on chain and that list is really long. So it's pretty, it's definitely a big wave. >> Well, the one, blockchain's an infrastructure, I think people getting all crazy over that, which I think it's legit. And there's some people out there saying, "Oh, blockchain's not legit." They don't really know what they're talking about in my opinion, and that's just, and a lot of people are confused. So there's a lot of people who are, you know, obviously don't see it, some people do. But I think the phenomenon that's interesting is, you know, taking a tech stack approach is, if you look at the decentralized application market, >> Shawn: Right. >> Where Ethereum for instance has got a lot of, the most developers. And they're working fast on some technical challenges they had but they're making progress. The D applications, the distributed, I mean the decentralized applications, that's like an application server on the blockchain. >> Yeah, exactly. >> So what that happens, is the things are happening, so you almost think of it, and you and I were talking about this, is that, you know, the vending machine of the future or the transaction service layer is that decentralized smart contract. >> Absolutely. >> 'Cause that's where the value is going to be captured. >> Shawn: Absolutely. >> And created and captured. >> Let me unpack that, because that's spot-on, I 100% agree with what you're saying there. Is that, what is a blockchain? A blockchain is effectively a decentralized database and network put together. What I think is interesting, is smart contract platforms that put a virtual machine on top of that. Like Ethereum has the EVM. Where it's your application server. And what are smart contracts? Smart contracts, like you said, are vending machines. They're a vending machine that has the appropriate level of security, the appropriate level of service, and allows you to have an autonomous transaction with that. When you walk up to a Pepsi machine, you put in a dollar, you expect to get back a Pepsi, it works, you go away, you don't think anything about it. What blockchain is allowing anybody to do, is to publish a smart contract on chain and monetize that at the most elemental level. It's analogous to, if Amazon allowed you to deploy a lambda function and monetize that. It's analogous to, if E-Business Suite allowed you to monetize your plugins from an Oracle world. It's analogous to if SAP with, when Shai Agassi was still there doing composable applications, allowed you to, as a vendor, anybody publish into that SAP ecosystem and monetize that. This is a massive, massive transformation and it reduces barriers to entries for people to come in and compete with juggernauts like an Amazon or an Oracle because at the barrier to entry is, they're publishing into a globally available, decentralized, platform, right. >> And the thing too that's interesting, and just to tie that together with what's happening in the cloud world, is if you look at like Kubernetes containers, and micro-services, the ability to be efficient with micro-services, allows for that IT infrastructure to completely be re-platformized. >> Exactly. >> So what you're getting at, is with the smart contracts and the atomic nature of the transaction, you can be laser-focused and scale transactions, >> Right. >> and be efficient, so the efficiency is a big part of this. >> It is, there's efficiency, and there is the ability to decompose things, and that's been a trend, for as long as I've been in technology right. It's, first it was, you know, cloud services, then it was SOA, then it was cloud, and now it's serverless, it's blockchain, it's just on that spectrum. There's not a lot new here actually, right. It's a continuum of technology, and I think all of these waves are enabled by different revolutionary forces. >> Operational change and software drives it obviously And you got the characteristics of blockchain, immutability et cetera, et cetera and DApps is just a new way to kind of write the software for that. They create those vending machines or transactional services So I got to ask you, so with what you guys are doing, I want to tie that together, because one of the things we've been reporting on theCUBE is, the piece of action that's most hyped up is, ICOs. These blockchain apps that are changing, and the old guard and disrupting incumbents. But there's not a lot of tooling around it, so, you know, if you think about like trading platforms, >> Right. 24/7 traders have access to stuff. Now the world's a 24/7, 365 global. There's not a lot of tooling, not a lot stuff. So this instant industry's created. This new wave is coming. You're building some tooling, so I want to get your thoughts on the support needed to do this. >> Shawn: Right. >> Say I put my business on the blockchain >> Shawn: Right. >> And with, use developers to do decentralized applications. >> Yeah, so, >> I need tools. >> Aboslutely, that's exactly, so, you know, got a little gray hair here, and I grew up building internet software at scale, right. Whenever you run anything in production, you always have your network operations center. You have your AppD, you have your Splunks, you have your New Relics, you have all of this. You've instrumented your infrastructure. You've instrumented your application transactions. You've instrumented search for operational log data. You need to be able to triage a security instance. You need to be able to respond to performance or production issues. You need to be able to communicate with your customers. None of this existed when I looked at the blockchain space, and I'm like I don't get it. This is a massive opportunity, because if you look at the enterprise space, 'cause public right now, sure, it's very interesting. ICOs are the killer use case. There's 300 million dollars per hour traversing in the public at their IMNetwork, 50% of those are going to smart contracts. A lot of that is actual transactional trading volume. But step back from the hype for a second, and you look at IBM, you look at VMware, you look at Cisco, you look at Microsoft, you look at, you know, all these guys. JP Morgan with Quorum. You look at, they all have major bets that are starting to evolve around taking things and removing intermediaries, just like public chain, but they're doing it with things like swaps, credit default swaps, interest swaps, currency swaps. They're talking about removing escrow services, they're talking about, >> So pre-existing companies are going to take the efficiency side of this and drive it. >> It's going to, it is a massive transformation right, and especially when they're working with their trading partners, there's almost a, what, a 2006 VMware data center consolidation play. Remember when the data centers were full of servers, and then all of a sudden, you know, they started pulling back the number of servers and turning off the A/C because they were able to take entire data center floors and consolidate them inside of VMs where they had three and four virtual machines in a server. And I think that you're going to get those same types of efficiencies over time once they get to pass some scaling issues around blockchain where you don't have to have seven copies of your data across your front office, your back office, across your trading partner. You can have one single source of truth and operate in an open transparent world where you can reduce some of those inefficiencies. And then there's a whole business transformation play that, you know, there's there's just, I think it's a, >> It's a perfect storm. You have a consolidation piece, which is more efficient operationally, and then you got the top-line revenue opportunity with disrupting kind of industries with new transactional models, business models and token economics. So we've talked a lot about it in theCUBE. I want to talk to you about your company, Amberdata. So you guys are trying to make sense of what's happening because if you're going to put a business on the blockchain, >> You need this. >> and use decentralized applications as a transactional application server if you will, for lack of a better description. You got to know what's going on, and there's gas involved, you got to pay the mining fees, so where there's costs, you need visibility. >> Right. So the old school, the old model was, you'd have KPIs, set some alerts, dashboarding, you're doing that right? >> That's what we've done. >> So take a minute to explain what Amberdata's doing. Did you do a round of funding? What's going on with the company? You got the product up there Amberdata.io >> Right, yeah, so let me unpack, there's a lot there. So uh, we started the company end of August. We raised a round of funding with traditional enterprise venture capital firm Hummer Winblad. Lars Leckie, amazing investor, really understands enterprise software and how to enable companies to grow. Amazing partner to work with. We've been heads down building a product. About 45 days ago we launched our platform live, and what we have today, is we have instrumentation for blockchain infrastructure, decentralized applications, transactions, and an ontology-based search, that gives a clean user experience where you can be search-driven to drill into a smart contract, a transaction, into a block, and you know, if you're building on top of chain, I mean, we're a classic picks and shovels play, It's pure, it's enterprise software, we built this for enterprises. Today our platform supports public Ethereum, but it was really to demonstrate, if we can do this for the entire Ethereum network and we can do this for its scale, of course we can do this for any enterprise. And today we support public Ethereum and Quorum, which is private Ethereum, it's a JPMorgan project, that I think is the one of the leaders in private blockchain, and that's a project that's being supported by the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance. We will also in our working with IBM, I was just on the Hyperledger technical steering committee this morning, I participate in that. So, we will support Hyperledger in the future, we will support multiple other public and private chains so the private ecosystem today is, you know, Enterprise Ethereum à la Quorum. It is Hyperledger. It is Corda. On the public side, it is Ethereum, it is Stellar, it is, you know, things like Quantum that are emerging, Neo, or emerging. >> So is your business model SaaS? Yes, it's a SaaS model and today we support public chain as a demonstration of it, but we're also working on allowing people to, just like a data dog, or what have you, where we have a connector, we can pull your data in, and it's private, it's only visible for you, for your private blockchain. Or we could deploy into their private cloud or into (talking over each other) >> John: So is Amberdata.io like a demo site, or is that more of, >> It's a demonstration of the ability to instrument blockchain infrastructure, applications, transactions, with search, the ability to set alerts on every single panel, which are your KPIs. If you're going to run a business, you either have explicit or implicit service level agreements, and you need to be able to instrument those service level agreements with KPIs, and those KPIs you need to be able to set alerts and events, receive emails, you know, all of those. >> I love the demo, the demo, I think the demo will be a great freemium model, because it showed, just my notes here, smart contracts on the decentralized application, top 50 sorted transaction volume, token velocity change in price, because you know gas you're still paying the gas to get the transaction written. I mean this is kind of like spot pricing for Amazon almost. You need to understand what am I paying for, if there's an SLA involved in a smart contract? >> Absolutely. >> You got to know the policy involved right? So, again, this is like old-school, like enterprise thinking, >> Shawn: Right. >> The world is now a global enterprise if you think about it. >> Shawn: Yeah, you absolutely need transparency into your operating costs. Those are your transactions costs of either, for your customers to consume your service or for you to provide your service. And, prior to this, there was very little transparency. It's ironic, is that, the most trustless, transparent platform, had no real view into it. And that's what we've built. We've built transparency and are enabling you to trust the trustless platform, to get transparency into your DApp KPIs, and so for example, if you're building, like you look at like EtherDelta's, EtherDelta's is one of the non-custodial smart contract based exchanges. They're doing 70 million dollars a month in transaction value. I don't know what they did before. We've talked with people that are consumers of that. We've talked to people on pretty much all of the decentralized exchange platforms. But the ability to understand, what are the number of transactions per hour, per second, per minute, that are hitting my smart contracts? What are the token transfers, if I've tokenized my unit economics. Who are the top 10 callers to my contract? Is my smart contract calling other contracts? What are my pending transactions? What is my book of trades? What is market depth of my gas prices? What, I need to be able to search if I've got failure. Show me transactions between this date, that date, to, from, where, that is all mission-critical stuff that you need if you're going to operate any business. >> So a lot of operational data and that's phenomenal, but are you worried that people aren't going to adopt? Blockchain I mean. >> I'm not worried about that at all. I actually think that there's an entire, when we started this, we were focused on enterprises exclusively, and we saw what we were doing on public Ethereum as a marketing ploy. We're like "Hey we'll go instrument "the whole public Ethereum Network". I'm a big data guy, we've built high-throughput, four terabytes a day of social graph ingestion platforms. We're like, public Ethereum, you know, not that transactionally intensive. We're going to do this for the world. Now, after building the platform and seeing 300 million dollars an hour, with 50% of those transactions going to smart contracts, we're seeing a new Enterprise emerge. You can look at companies like, you know, Sia, Storj coin, IPFS. >> So can actually see the activity (slurred) it's encrypted, but you can look at the metadata and get the patterns. I mean you're essentially looking at the transactional volume, almost like a stock exchange. We can, we have full transparency into every transaction, that's happening on chain, and we can see, like the other day, I did a tweet on, there was a token that's traded, I don't know, we're not interested in the trading side but it's the use case that has the most buzz, and we have transparency, so we see it, we're like, "Hey, this smart contract went "from two thousand transactions, to 40 thousand "transactions. What is going on?" Right, and we actually saw that. >> You can see the pump-and-dump scams too. >> Oh you can totally see that. In providing transparency, is now, it's becoming easy for anybody to search for anything. >> Well that's a great free service, and I appreciate you, and I've been playing with that over the weekend, I love it, I'm like, "Hmm, I might get some trades on this thing." >> Thank you. Check it out. We'd love feedback from anybody that's seeing this, Amberdata.io and I can be reached at Shawn@Amberdata.io >> So, I mean obviously funding you must have a ton of VCs throwing money at you, is that the case? Are you thinking about an ICO? What's the thoughts on the capital expansion? Yes obviously got a great, hot startup here, so what's the funding strategy? >> We've been heads down on building things, and we're obviously getting inbound, but you know, we're well funded, we're in as, I think we're in a position of strength. What we're focused on is taking the mountain, and defining and being the category leader. I think right now, we have defined it. >> There's no one else doing it. >> Yeah, exactly. >> So you're like the solo, you're the only one doing it. >> So, we are going to define the space for operational monitoring analytics for public and private blockchain, and be that single pane of glass that allows enterprises to build on or around, you know, decentralized smart contract platforms, or, you know, private smart contract platforms. And we're going to take that hill, and we're going to stay out in front. So right now, we're heads down. We'll eventually, (talking over each other) >> Can I get an API to the data set? Can you just give me an API? Like a fire hose opportunity there? >> So we are enabling this as a platform, to drive network effects, and we're working with several exchanges, we're working, you know, some of non-custodial exchanges. We've got a lot of inbound interest from people more on the trading side. We're evaluating whether we do that, and we want people to be able to build on top of our platform, other analytics tools, you know, connect to exchanges, connect what have you, right and create that marketplace, create those APIs, inroads, and then allow people to drive that. And on the ICO front, we're really not focused on that. We're enterprise software. >> Well theCUBE team would love to have an API and program with it for theCUBEInsights, we'd love to look at that. >> That would be great right. >> That's something we can work together and collaborate on that. I got to ask you about the data 'cause this is fascinating, coming from the search background that I come from, it's almost like the Google crawler. You went out, >> It's a Google for blockchain. >> Is it true that you guys crawled all the Genesis nodes on Ethereum, so you got into the Genesis nodes? >> Shawn: That's correct. >> So from the Genesis nodes to today, you've essentially gotten all those instrumented, >> Shawn: Right >> And have real time data coming in. >> Yes, that is correct. So as far as I know, we're the only people that have done this. It's computationally intensive and from the data structure perspective pretty difficult to do. But what we've done is, and it has to do with the data structures in the way Ethereum works whether that be public or private, is that there's an account-based blockchain that has transactions, but then the smart contracts and transfers of tokens happen in messages. So what we've done is, we have the ability to, or we have done and we have the ability to do in perpetuity moving forward, we instrument every transaction, every internal transaction, every token transfer, with time series data, indexed, searchable, we also have graph as well as relational views into the data, to be able to give the transparency, enable trust, enable you to triage an issue. Like, you know, I think about having worked at, you know, other enterprises in the past. Where you have a, you know, a security incident, that you need to respond to. We're currently under attack we need to find out who, what are they doing, what have they done, what is our exposure, how do we contain that, how do we, you know, deal with that? Without what we have, you can't do that. You got to like right Python scripts, and do API (talking over each other) >> You're chasing a ghost basically, and by the time you get it, it's over. >> Right, and then for enterprises, they've got hard core regulatory compliance considerations that you need to deal with. Ad-hoc queries from an auditor, you need to be able to show "Hey, I've got confidentiality, I have availability, "I have integrity" >> Well, even these smart contracts are still software. They, and you know, we've interviewed Hartej Sawhney, who's got a company that's doing just that auditing, >> He's killing it right. >> Auditing, the smart contracts because someone's going to write the code, and the code's back vulnerabilities. >> Absolutely. >> So there's a compliance aspect coming, quickly. >> Yes, yes absolutely. Yeah, I mean, so there's, it's an amazing space. There's a tremendous amount going on. It's moving super fast. >> Picks and shovels for the new miners, literally miners. Shawn, great to have you on. Congratulations >> Thank you. >> On your new startup. I think you've got a great product. I've been playing with the data, I love it. I think it's fascinating. If you could summarize the data that you've learned from the tool that you've built and platformed, what's the summary? What if you had to kind of tease it out, what's actually happening right now in the market, on the Ethereum network, with the apps and blockchain? >> Right, so, there is, so at the end of the day, Ethereum is a smart contract platform, and it pans out, that 50% of the transactions are actually going to smart contracts, which is a great validation right. Two: the actual value being transferred and interacting with smart contracts is 300 million dollars an hour. That is, it's, on an enterprise software perspective, it's not huge, but it's definitely a validation. >> It's legit. >> It's legit. The number of smart contracts that have been created in the last three months, is 400%. It is just going through the roof. Some of this, there's a lot of junk, but there's a lot of stuff that are people are building new enterprises, and on the enterprise side, we're seeing real business cases going into production, working with a few large customers now, on instrumenting real, you know, removing, you know, instrumenting real, over-the-counter type use cases. It's very, very interesting times. >> Well, you know my rants. I've been ranting about some of these bankers that have come from an old-school bank, and they're young kids too, so they're not, they're younger than me but they're trying to valuation mechanisms around, you know, companies and tokens, and they're using like discounted cash flow. Now I mean I get how they could go there, 'cause they learn that in school. >> Shawn: Right. But the reality is there's a new school going on. The school's in session. If you know the data, you have very interesting valuation variables that could be constructed on these new models that need to be looked at. I mean, how do you value a company? Certainly velocity. >> Shawn: Yeah, volume. >> Who's actually doing the transactions? Are they real smart contracts? So there's a lot of gamification and, I won't say scams, but I would say the investors want the transparency too. >> Yeah, I think it's amazing is that, we have that transparency, we provide that transparency as free service to the community right now and the ability to have transparency into transaction volume for smart contracts, token velocity, number of unique callers, market capitalization, the change in price, this gives you the ability to value that. That's something that, you know, we've thought about extensively is, maybe we should just provide valuation as a service, on just these assets that are publicly available? Yeah, I don't know. >> You had a lot of opportunities, so great job. Congratulations, good work. You guys have really done the work on this project, love it. And again, it validates the reality of the smart contracts, the application side of the business changing. Shawn Douglass here, inside theCUBE for CUBEConversation here at Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (orchestral music)