>> Narrator: TheCUBE's live coverage is made possible by funding from Dell Technologies, creating technologies that drive human progress. (upbeat music) (logo background tingles) >> Hey everyone, it's so good to see you, welcome back to theCube's day two coverage of MWC 23. We are live in Barcelona, Lisa Martin with Dave Nicholson, Dave we have had no signage of people dropping out, this conference is absolutely jam packed. There's so much interest in the industry, you've had a lot of interviews this morning, before we introduce our guests and have a great conversation about the industry and challenges and how they're being solved, what are some of the things that stuck out to you in conversations today? >> Well, I think the interesting, kind of umbrella conversation, that seems to be overlapping you know, overlying everything is this question about Open RAN and open standards in radio access network technology and where the operators of networks and the providers of technology come together to chart a better path forward. A lot of discussion of private 5G networks, it's very interesting, I think I've said this a few times, from a consumer's perspective, we feel like 5G has been with us for a long time- >> We do. >> But it's very clear that this, that we're really at the beginning of stages of this and I'm super excited for our guests that we have here because we're going to be able to talk to an actual operator- >> Yes. >> And hear what they have to say, we've heard a lot of people talking about the cool stuff they build, but we're going to get to hear from someone who actually works with this stuff, so- >> Who actually built it, absolutely. Please welcome our two guests, we have Ihab Tarazi CTO and SVP at Dell Technologies, and Juan Carlos Garcia SVP Technology Innovation and Ecosystems at Telephonica, it's great to have you guys on the program. >> So, thank you very much. >> So the buzz around this conference is incredible, 80,000 plus people, 2000 exhibitors, it's standing room only. Lot of opportunity in the industry, a lot of challenges though, Juan Carlos we'd love to get your perspective on, what are some of the industry challenges that Telephonica has faced that your peers are probably facing as well? >> Well we have two kinds of challenges, one is a business challenge, I would say that we may find in other industries, like profitability and growth and I will talk about it. And the second challenge is our technology challenge, we need the network to be ready to embrace a new wave of technologies and applications that are, you know, very demanding in terms of network characteristics and features. On the efficiency and profitability and growth, the solution comes as a challenge from changing the way networks are built and operated, from the traditional way to make them become software platforms. And this is not just at the knowledge challenge, it's also changing the mindset of network operators from a network and service provider to a digital service provider, okay? And this means several things, your network needs to become software-based so that you can manage it digitally and on top of it, you need to be able to deliver detail services digitally, okay? So there are three aspects, making your network so (indistinct) and cloud and cloud waste and then be able to sell in a different way to our customers. >> So some pretty significant challenges, but to your point, Juan Carlos, you share some of those challenges with other industries so there's some commonality there. I wanted to bring Ihab into the conversation, from Dell's perspective, we're seeing, you know, the explosion of data. Every company has to be a data company, we expect to have access to data in real time, if it's a new app, whatever it is. What are some of the challenges that you're seeing from your seat at Dell? >> Yeah, I think Juan Carlos explained that really well, what all the operators are talking about here between new applications, think metaverse, think video streaming, going all the way to the edge, think all the automation of factories and everything that's happening. It's not only requiring a whole new model for delivery and for building networks, but it's throwing out enormous amount of data and the data needs to be acted on to get the value of it. So the challenge is how do I collect the data? How do I catalog it? How do I make it usable? And then how do I make it persistent? So you know, it's high performance data storage and then after that, how do I move it to where I want to and be able to use it. And for many applications that has to happen in milliseconds for the value to come out. So now we've seen this before with enterprise but now I would say this digital transformation is happening at very large scale for all the telcos and starting to deal with very familiar themes we've seen before. >> So Juan Carlos, Telephonica, you hear from partners, vendors that they've done this before, don't worry, you're in good hands. >> Juan Carlos: Yeah, yeah. >> But as a practical matter, when you look at the challenges that you have and you think about the things you'll do to address them as you move forward, what are the immediate short term priorities? >> Okay. >> Versus the longer term priorities? What's realistic? You have a network to operate- >> Yeah. >> You're not just building something out of nothing, so you have to keep the lights on. >> Yeah. >> And you have to innovate, we call that by the way, in the CTO trade, ambidextrous, management using both hands, so what's your order of priorities? >> Well, the first thing, new technologies you are getting into the network need to come with a detail shape, so being cloud native, working by software. On the legacies that you need to keep alive, you need to go for a program to switch (indistinct) off progressively, okay? In fact, in Spain we are going to switch up the copper network in two years, so in 2024, Telephonica will celebrate 100 years and the celebration will be switching up the copper network and we'll have on the fixed access only fiber, okay. So more than likely, the network is necessary, all this digitalization may happen only on the new technologies because the new technologies are cloud-based, cloud native, become already ready for this digitalization process. And not only that, so you need also to build new things, we need an abstraction layer on top of the physical infrastructure to be able to manage the network by software, okay. This is something that happened in the computing world, okay, where the servers, you know, were covered with a cloud stack layer and we are doing the same thing in the network. We are trained to abstract the network services and capabilities and be able to offer them digitally to our customers. And this is a process that we are ongoing with many initiatives in the market, so one was the CAMARA community that was opened in Linux Foundation and the other one was the announcement we made yesterday of the open gateway initiative here at Mobile World Congress where all telecom operators have agreed to launch in this year a set of service APIs that are common worldwide, okay. This is a similar thing to what we did with 2G 35 years ago, to agree on a standard way of delivering a service and in this case is digital services based on APIs. >> What's the net result of? What are the benefits of having those open standards? Is it a benefit that myself as a consumer would enjoy? It seems, I mean, I've been, I'm old enough to remember, you know, a time before cellular telephones and I remember a time when it was very, very difficult to travel from North America to Europe with a cell phone. Now I land and my provider says, "Hey, welcome-" >> Juan Carlos: Yes. >> "Welcome, we're going to charge you a little extra money." And I say, "Hallelujah, awesome." So is part of that interoperability a benefit to consumers or, how, what? >> Yeah, you touch the right point. So in the same way you travel anywhere and you want to still make a call and send an SMS and connect to the internet, you will like your applications in your smartphone to work being them edge applications, okay, and these applications, each application will have to work to be executed very close to where you are, in a way that if you travel abroad the visitor network is serving you, okay. So this means that we are somehow extending the current interconnection and roaming agreements between operators to be able also to deliver edge applications wherever you are, in whatever network, with whatever technology. >> We have that expectation on the consumer side, that it's just going to work no matter where we are, we want apps to be updated, whether I'm banking or I'm shopping for groceries, I want to make sure that they know who I am, the data's got to be there, it's got to be real time, it's got to be right, it's got to serve me personally, but it just has to work. You guys talked about some of the big challenges, but also the opportunities in terms of the future of networking, the data turning companies in the data companies. Walk us through the future of networking from Telephonica's lens, you talked about some of the big initiatives that you have by 2024. >> Yes. >> But if you had a crystal ball and you could look in there and go it looks like this for operators, what would you say? And I'd love to get your feedback too. >> Yeah, I liked how Juan Carlos talked about how the future is, I think I want to add one thing to it, to say, a lot of times the user is no longer a consumer, it's an automated thing, you know, AI think robots, so a lot of times, more and more the usage is happening by some autonomous thing and it needs to always connect. And more and more these things are extending to places where even cellular coverage doesn't exist today, so you have edge compute show up. So, and when you think about it, the things we have to solve as a community here and this is all the discussions is, number one, how you make it a fully open standard model, so everything plugs and play, more and more, there's so many pieces coming, software, hardware, from different components and the integration of all of that is probably one of the biggest challenges people want solved. You know, how it's no longer one box, you buy from one person and put it away, now you have a complex combination of hardware and software. Also the operational model is very important and that is one of the areas we're focused on at Dell, is that while the operational model works inside the data centers for certain application, for telcos, it looks different when you're out at the cell tower and you're going to have these extended temperature changes. And sometimes this may not be inside a cabinet, maybe outside and the person servicing it is not an IT technician. This is somebody that needs to know exactly how to plug it, to be able to place equipment quickly and add capacity, those are just two of the areas, the cloud, making it work like a cloud, where it's intuitive, automated and you can easily add capacity, you can, you know, get a lot of monitoring, a lot of metrics, those are some of the things that we're all solving in this community. >> Let's talk about exactly how you're achieving this, Telephonica and Dell have been working together for a couple of years, you said before we went live. Talk about, you're doing this, you talked about the challenges, the opportunities how are you solving them and why with Dell? >> Okay, well you need to go with the right partners, not to this kind of process of transforming your network into a digital platform. There are big challenges on creating the cloud infrastructure that you need to support the complex, functionality and network requires. And I think you need to have with you, companies that know about the processors, that know about the hardware, the server, that know about how to make an abstraction of that hardware layer so that you can manage that digitally and this is not something any company can do, so you need companies that are very specialized. Telecom operators are changing the way to work, we work in the past with traditionally, with network equipment vendors, now we need to start working with technology providers, hardware (indistinct) providers with cloud providers with an ecosystem that is probably wider than what we had in the past. >> Yes. >> So I come from a background, I call myself a "knuckle dragging hardware engineer" sort of guy, so I'm almost fascinated by the physical part of this. You have a network, part of that network includes towers that have transmitters, receivers, at the base of those towers and like you mentioned, they're not all necessarily in urban areas or easy to access. There's equipment there, let's say that, that tower has been there for 5 years, 10 years, in the traditional world of IT, we have this this concept of the "refresh cycle" >> Juan Carlos: Yeah. >> Where a server may have a useful life of 36 months before it's consuming more power than it should based on the technology. How do you move from, kind of a legacy more proprietary, all-inclusive stack to an open system? I mean, is this a, "Okay, we're planning for an outage for the tower and you're wheeling out old equipment and wheeling in new equipment?" >> Juan Carlos: Yeah. >> I mean that's not, that's what we say as a non-trivial exercise, it's something that isn't, it's not something that's just easy to do, but is that what progress looks like? Sort of, methodically one site at a time? >> Yeah, well, I mean, you have touched an important point. In the technology renewal cycles, we were taking an appliance and replacing that by another one. Now with the current technology, you have the couple, the hardware from the software and the hardware, you need to replace it only when you run out of processing capacity to do what you want, okay? So then we'll be there 2, 3, 4, 5 years, whatever, when you need additional capacity, you replace it, but on the software side you can make the replacement every hour, every week. And this is something that the new technologies are bringing, a flexibility for the telecom operator to introduce a new feature without having to be physically there in the place, okay, by software remotely and this is the kind of software network we want to build. >> Lisa Martin: You know- >> Yeah, I want to add to that if I can- >> Please. >> Yeah. >> I think this is one of the biggest benefits of the open model. If the stack is all integrated as one appliance, when a new technology, we all know how quickly selecon technology comes out and now we have GPU's coming out for AI more increasingly, in an appliance model it may take you two years to take advantage of some new selecon that just came out. In this new open model, as Juan Carlos was saying, you just swap out, you know, you have time to market CPUs launched, it can be put out there at the cell tower and it could double capacity instantly and we're going to need that in that world, that easily going to be AI enabled- >> Lisa Martin: Right. >> So- >> So my last question to you, we only got a minute left or so, is given everything that we've talked about, the challenges, the opportunities, what you're doing together, how would you Juan Carlos summarize how the business is benefiting from the Dell partnership and the technologies that you're enabling with this new future network? >> Well, as I said before, we will need to be able to cover all the characteristics and performance of our network. We will need the right kind of processing capacity, the right kind of hardware solutions. We know that the functionality of the network is a very demanding one, we need hardware acceleration, we need a synchronization, we need time-sensitive solutions and all these can only done by hardware, so you need a good hardware partner, that ensures that you have the processing capacity you need to be able then to run your software, you know, with the confidence that it will work and with the performance that you need. >> That confidence is key. Well it sounds like what Telephonica and Dell have achieved together has been quite successful. Congratulations on the first couple of years, sounds like it's really helping Telephonica's business move in the strategic direction that it wants. We appreciate you joining us on the program today, describing all this, thank you both so much for your time. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, this was fun. >> A pleasure. >> Good, our pleasure. For our guests and for Dave Nicholson, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live day two from Barcelona, MWC 23. Don't go anywhere, Dave and I will be right back with our next guests. (cheerful bouncy music)

foreign to the AWS re invent Cube coverage I'm John Furrier here with thecube got a great guest line up here talking about computer vision at the edge and saramba product lead AWS events mobile app and Steven White solution architect for Edge ml thanks for joining me today computer vision at the edge with adios Panorama thanks for coming on happy to be here so what is Ada's Panorama let's get that out there right away what's the focus of that let's define what that is and we'll get into this computer vision at the Edge Story yeah so thanks Sean uh AWS Panorama is our managed uh computer vision at the Ed service and so to put that perspective you know imagine with me the last time that you've been into a restaurant or maybe your favorite retail store or even office building and didn't notice a camera and so we were talking to customers and trying to understand you know what is it that they do with all of this uh video content that they're collecting and surprisingly we found out that large part of this data just sits on a hard drive somewhere and never gets used and so as we dug in a little deeper to better understand you know why this data is just sitting there I think there were three main themes that continue to come up across the board uh one is you know around privacy right privacy security a lot of the data that's being captured with these cameras tend to be either intellectual property that is you know focused on kind of the Manifest factoring process or maybe about their products that they don't want to get out there you know or and or it could just be a private pii data privacy data related to their employee Workforce and and maybe even customers so you know privacy is is a big concern second was just the amount of bandwidth that cameras create and produce tend to be uh prohibitive from for you know sending back to a centralized location for processing uh each camera stream tends to generate about a couple of megabytes of data so it could get very voluminous as you've got tons of cameras at your location and the other issue was around just the latency required to take action on the data so a lot of times especially in the manufacturing space um you know as as you've got a manufacturing line of products that are coming through and you need to take action in milliseconds and so latency is extremely important from process processing time to taking action so those three uh main drivers you know we ended up developing this AWS service called Panorama that addressed these three main challenges with uh you know with analyzing video content and database Panorama in particular there's there's two main components right we've got the compute platform that is about the size of a sheet of paper your standard you know eight and a half by eleven size sheet of paper so the platform itself is extremely compact it's a it's a video and and deep learning algorithms it sits at the customer premise and directly interfaces with video cameras using the standard IP protocols collects that data uh processes it and then immediately deletes the data so there isn't any any information that's actually stored at the location and you know basically the only thing that's left over is just metadata that describes that data and then the other key component here is the cloud um you know service component which helps manage the fleet of devices that are existing so all of these Panorama appliances that are sitting at your premise there's a cloud component that helps you configure you know operationalize check the health as well as deploy applications and configure cameras so that's uh basically you know the the service is really hopefully optimal or you know is focused on um helping customers really make use of all of their video data at the edge you know the theme here at re invent this year is applications we've seen things like connect add value to customers this is one of those situations where everyone's got cameras it's easy to connect to an IP address and Cloud kind of gives you all those Services there are a lot of real world applications that people can can Implement with this because with the cloud you kind of have this ability to kind of stand it up and get value out of that data what are some of the real world applications that it was because they're implementing with the camera because I mean I can see a lot of use cases here where I can you don't have to build the clouds there for me I can stand it up and start getting value what kind of use cases do you see implementing from your customers yeah so our customers are really amazing with the different types of problems um and opportunities that they bring to us for uh using computer vision at the edge in their data um you know we've got everything from animal Warfare use cases to being able to use you know video to uh to to make sure that you know food processing and just you know the health of animals is uh is uh sufficient we've got cases in manufacturing doing visual inspection and anomaly detection so looking at products that are on the conveyor belt as they're being manufactured and put together to make sure that obviously they're they're put together in the right in the right way um and then we've got different port authority and airports that use uh for you know security and cargo tracking to make sure that the products get to where they're supposed to go in a timely and efficient manner manager manage and then finally one of the use cases that really show facing a re invent this year is a part of our retail analytics portfolio which is line counting and so in particular we see a lot of customers in the retail space such as quick service restaurants even you know Peril retail and convenience stores where they want to better understand um you know whether their product is being made to the customer specification we've got like french fry use cases to see how the quality of that french fry is um you know over time and if they need to make a new batch when they've got a influx of customers coming in and to understanding employee to customer ratio maybe they need to put somebody on the cash register you know at busy time so there's really just a big number of customers you know opportunities that we've really solving with the computer vision service looks like a great service Panorama looking good and I want to get your thoughts you have the events happy the product lead take us through with your app I know you have decided to use it was Panorama I was a fit for you this year at re invent 2022 but you know you've been doing this event app for a while now take us through the app when it started how it's evolved and kind of what's the focus this year of course Sean app started in 26 4 re invent and since we've really expanded this year we've actually supported up to 34 events for AWS and continue to expand that for future years for this year though specifically we wanted to contribute to the overall event experience at re invent by helping people go through the process of checking in and picking up their badge in a more formed and efficient way so we decided that the AWS Panorama team and their computer vision and Edge capabilities were the best fit to analyze the lines and the registration kiosks that we have on site at both the Venetian and MGM at the airport we'll have digital signage showcasing our bad pickup wait times that will help attendees select which badge pickup location that they want to go to and see the current wait times live on those signs as well as through the mobile app so I can basically um get the feel for the line size when to come in does it give me a little recognition of who I am and kind of when I get there there's a TIA pull up my records as I do a little intelligence behind the scenes give us a little peek under the covers what's the solution look like so you do have to sign into the mobile app with your registration and so with that we will have your QR code specific for your check-in experience available to you you'll see that at the top of the screen and we'll know once you've checked in that will disappear but if you haven't checked in that Banner is at the top of the event screen and when you tap that that's when you can see all the different options where you can go and pick up your badge we do have five locations this year for badge pickup and the app will help you kind of navigate which one of those options will be best for you given you know maybe you want to pick it up right away at the airport or you may want to go even to one of your other Hotel options that we'll have um to pick it up at foreign okay now I gotta get I got to ask you on the app what's the coolest thing you got going on this year what's new every year there seems to be a new feature what's the focus this year so can you share a a peek on some of the key features yeah so our biggest and most popular features are always around the session catalog and calendar as you can utilize both to of course organize your event schedule and really stay on top of what you want to do on site and get the most out of your reinvent experience this year we have a few new exciting features of course badge pickup line counting is is one of our biggest but we also will have a one-way calendar sync so you can sync all of your calendar activities to your native device calendar as well as pure talk which is our newest feature that we launched at the start of November where you can interact with other attendees who have opted in and even set up time on site to meet one-on-one with them we've also filled that experience with peer talk experts that include AWS experts that are ready to meet and interact with attendees who have interest on site you know I love this topic it's a very cool video we love video we're doing this remote video I'm getting ready for you know all the action and and analyzing it video's cool and so to me if we could look at the video and say hey we haven't soon that might have body cams in the future um video is great people love videos very engaging but always people that say what about my privacy so how do you guys put in place uh mechanisms to preserve attendee privacy yeah I think so I'm not I think you know you and our customers share the same concern and so we have built uh foundationally that AWS Panorama to address you know both privacy and security concerns with uh associated with all this video content and so in particular the AWS Panorama Appliance is something that sits at the customer premise it interface directly with video cameras uh the data all the video that's processed is immediately deleted nothing stored um and you know the outcome of the processing is just simple metadata so it's Text data that you know as an example in the case of the AWS uh line counting solution that we're demoing this year at Panorama along with you know the events team uh it's simply a count of the number of people in the video at any given time so so you know we we do take privacy uh at heart and have made every effort to address them and what are some of the things that you're doing at the event app I mean I'm imagining you're probably looking at space I mean there's a fire marshal issues around you know people do you take it to that level I mean what's how far are you pushing the envelope on on Panorama what are some of the things that you guys are doing besides check-ins or anything you can share on what's Happening the area where we're utilizing you know Anonymous attendee data otherwise other things in the app are very Anonymous just in nature I mean you do sign in but besides that everything we collect is anonymous and we don't collect unless you consent with the cookie consent that appears right when you first launch the app experience besides that we do have as I mentioned peer talk and and that's just where you're sharing information that you want to share with other attendees on site and then we do have session surveys where you can provide information that you wish about how this survey or how the sessions rather went that you attended on-site yeah Stephen you're you're uh your title has you the solution architect for Edge ml this is the Ultimate Edge use case you're seeing here I mean it's a big part of the future of how companies are going to use video and data just what's your reaction to all this I mean we're at a time it's very kind of an interesting time in the history of the industry as you look at this this is a really big part of of the future with video and Edge like I mentioned users are involved people are involved spaces are involved kind of a fun area what's your reaction to where this is right now so personally I'm very passionate about this uh particular solution and service I've been doing computer vision now for 12 years I started doing in the cloud but when I heard about you know customers really looking for an edge component solution and this you know AWS was still in the early stages I knew I had to be a part of it and so I I you know work with some amazing talented engineers and scientists putting this solution together and of course you know our customers continue to bring us these amazing use cases that you know that just I wouldn't get an opportunity to um you know witness without without you know the support of our customers and so we've got some amazing opportunity amazing projects and you know I just love the love to uh experience that with our customers and partners yeah and and Stephen this is like one of those times where the industry has always had this everyone's scratching the niche somewhere but then you get cloud and scale and data come in and just it accelerates some of these areas that were you know I won't say not growing fast but very interesting like computer vision video events technology in the cloud is changing in a good way some of these areas uh and we're seeing that like computer vision as you mentioned Stephen so Ann event same thing I can imagine this event app will blow up to probably be all things Amazon events and and be the touch Touchstone for all customers and attendees I'm probably thinking the road map there's looking pretty interesting with all the vision you have there what's your what's your reaction to the cloud scale meets events absolutely yeah I know we we have a lot of events that happen at AWS and our goal is to have as many of them in the app as possible where it makes sense right we have a lot of partial Day events to multi-day events and the multi-day events are definitely the area where it's harder for an attendee to organize all that they have to do going on on site as well as everything surrounding the event pre-event uh topics and sessions looking up what they want to do to make sure that they're getting the most of their time on site so we really want to make sure that that's something that an attendee can do with our app as well as it showcase as many of the AWS Services as we have like we are doing here with Panorama we have a few other services in the app as well Amazon location service and Amazon connect to name a couple and we hope to just include more and more with each year as well as more events as the time goes on I'm sure your roadmaps looking great the computer vision is awesome I mean this is a mashup integration apis are going to come around the corner so much excitement after re invent love to follow up with you guys and find out more I think this is a super interesting area the convergence of what you guys are working on to kind of wrap up where do you guys see um AWS Panorama going and where can people learn more about how to get involved how to use the service how to test it out where's this going and how do people learn more but first off you can get customers can get more information about panorama from our website aws.amazon.com Panorama and you know I think where we're going is super exciting you know we continue to improve the product to add support for as an example containers we've added support for Hardware acceleration to improve the number of cameras that we can support so we've you know we've got um you know we can support now with a single device up to 30 40 cameras we've got the ability now to support many different uh we continue to expand the interface types that we support um you know and the different types of even adding sensors and you know expanding to Sensor Fusion so not just computer vision but we've learned from customers that they actually want to incorporate other uh other sensor types and other interfaces so we're bringing in the ability to handle you know computer vision and video but also many other data types as well all right and and Stephen thank you for sharing great stuff computer vision at the edge with Panorama thanks for coming on thecube appreciate it thanks for coming on thank you okay AWS coverage here in the cube I'm John for your host thanks for watching

>>Hello, everyone. Welcome to this cube conversation. I'm here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John furrier, host of the cube, and we have a great guest here. Barack Shuster. Who's in Tel-Aviv senior director of chief architect at bridge crew, a part of Palo Alto networks. He was formerly the co-founder of the company, then sold to Palo Alto networks Brock. Thanks for coming on this cube conversation. >>Thanks John. Great to be here. >>So one of the things I love about open source, and you're seeing a lot more of the trend now that talking about, you know, people doing incubators all over the world, having open source and having a builder, people who are starting companies, it's coming more and more, you you're one of them. And you've been part of this security open source cloud infrastructure infrastructure as code going back a while, and you guys had a lot of success. Now, open source infrastructure as code has moved up to the stack, certainly lot going down at the network layer, but developers just want to build security from day one, right? They don't want to have to get into the, the, the waiting game of slowing down their pipelining of code in the CIC D they want to move faster. And this has been one of the core conversations this year is how to make developers more productive and not just a cliche, but actually more productive and not have to wait to implement cloud native. Right. So you're in the middle of it. And you've got you're in, tell us, tell us what you guys are dealing with that, >>Right? Yeah. So I hear these needles working fast, having a large velocity of releases from many of my friends, the SRAs, the DevOps, and the security practitioners in different companies. And the thing that we asked ourselves three years ago was how can we simplify the process and make the security teams an enabler instead of a gatekeeper that blocks the releases? And the thing that we've done, then we understood that we should do is not only doing runtime scanning of the cloud infrastructure and the cloud native clusters, but also shift left the findings and fixings the remediation of security issues to the level of the code. So we started doing infrastructure is good. We Terraform Kubernetes manifests cloud formation, server less, and the list goes on and we created an open source product around it, named checkup, which has an amazing community of hundreds of contributors. Not all of them are Palo Alto employees. Most of them are community users from various companies. And we tried to and succeeded to the democratic side is the creation of policy as code the ability to inspect your infrastructure as code and tell you, Hey, this is the best practice that you should use consider using it before applying a misconfigured S3 bucket into production, or before applying a misconfigured Kubernetes cluster into your production or dev environment. And the goal, >>The goal, >>The goal is to do that from the ID from the moment that you write code and also to inspect your configuration in CGI and CD and in runtime. And also understand that if there is any drift out there and the ability to fix that in the source code, in the blueprint itself. >>So what I hear you saying is really two problems you're solving. One is the organizational policies around how things were done in a environment before all the old way. You know, the security teams do a review, you send a ticket, things are waiting, stop, wait, hurry up and wait kind of thing. And then there's the technical piece of it, right? Is that there's two pieces to that. >>Yeah, I think that one thing is the change of the methodologies. We understood that we should just work differently than what we used to do. Tickets are slow. They have priorities. You have a bottleneck, which is a small team of security practitioners. And honestly, a lot of the work is repetitive and can be democratized into the engineering teams. They should be able to understand, Hey, I wrote the code piece that provision this instance, I am the most suitable person as a developer to fix that piece of code and reapply it to the runtime environment. >>And then it also sets the table for our automation. It sets the table for policies, things that make things more efficient scaling. Cause you mentioned SRS are a big part of this to dev ops and SRE. Those, those folks are, are trying to move as fast as possible at scale, huge scale challenge. How does that impact the scale piece become into here? >>So both themes Esri's and security teams are about a link to deploying application, but new application releases into the production environment. And the thing that you can do is you can inspect all kinds of best practices, not only security, best practices, but also make sure that you have provision concurrencies on your serverless functions or the amount of auto-scaling groups is what you expect it to be. And you can scan all of those things in the level of your code before applying it to production. >>That's awesome. So good, good benefits scales a security team. It sounds like too as well. You could get that policy out there. So great stuff. I want to really quickly ask you about the event. You're hosting code two cloud summit. What are we going to see there? I'm going to host a panel. Of course, I'm looking forward to that as well. You get a lot of experts coming in there. Why are you having this event and what topics will be covered? >>So we wanted to talk on all of the shifts, left movement and all of the changes that have happened in the cloud security market since inception till today. And we brought in great people and great practitioners from both the dev ops side, the chaos engineering and the security practitioners, and everybody are having their opinion on what's the current status state, how things should be implemented in a mature environment and what the future might hold for the code and cloud security markets. The thing that we're going to focus on is all of the supply chain from securing the CCD itself, making sure your actions are not vulnerable to a shut injection or making sure your version control system are configured correctly with single sign-on MFA and having branch protection rules, but also open source security like SCA software composition analysis infrastructure as code security. Obviously Ron thinks security drifts and Kubernetes security. So we're going to talk on all of those different aspects and how each and every team is mitigating. The different risks that come with. >>You know, one of the things that you bring up when you hear you talking is that's the range of, of infrastructure as code. How has infrastructure as code changed? Cause you're, you know, there's dev ops and SRS now application developers, you still have to have programmable infrastructure. I mean, if infrastructure code is real realize up and down the stack, all aspects need to be programmable, which means you got to have the data, you got to have the ability to automate. How would you summarize kind of the state of infrastructure as code? >>So a few years ago, we started with physical servers where you carried the infrastructure on our back. I, I mounted them on the rack myself a few years ago and connected all of the different cables then came the revolution of BMS. We didn't do that anymore. We had one beefy appliance and we had 60 virtual servers running on one appliance. So we didn't have to carry new servers every time into the data center then came the cloud and made everything API first. And they bill and enabled us to write the best scripts to provision those resources. But it was not enough because he wanted to have a reproducible environment. The is written either in declarative language like Terraform or CloudFormation or imperative like CDK or polluted, but having a consistent way to deploy your application to multiple environments. And the stage after that is having some kind of a service catalog that will allow application developer to get the new releases up and running. >>And the way that it has evolved mass adoption of infrastructure as code is already happening. But that introduces the ability for velocity in deployment, but also new kinds of risks that we haven't thought about before as security practitioners, for example, you should vet all of the open source Terraform modules that you're using because you might have a leakage. Our form has a lot of access to secrets in your environment. And the state really contains sensitive objects like passwords. The other thing that has changed is we today we rely a lot on cloud infrastructure and on the past year we've seen the law for shell attack, for example, and also cloud providers have disclosed that they were vulnerable to log for shell attack. So we understand today that when we talk about cloud security, it's not only about the infrastructure itself, but it's also about is the infrastructure that we're using is using an open source package that is vulnerable. Are we using an open source package that is vulnerable, is our development pipeline is configured and the list goes on. So it's really a new approach of analyzing the entire software bill of material also called Asbell and understanding the different risks there. >>You know, I think this is a really great point and great insight because new opera, new solutions for new problems are new opportunities, right? So open source growth has been phenomenal. And you mentioned some of those Terraform and one of the projects and you started one checkoff, they're all good, but there's some holes in there and it's open source, it's free, everyone's building on it. So, you know, you have, and that's what it's for. And I think now is open source goes to the next level again, another generational inflection point it's it's, there's more contributors there's companies are involved. People are using it more. It becomes a really strong integration opportunity. So, so it's all free and it's how you use it. So this is a new kind of extension of how open source is used. And if you can factor in some of the things like, like threat vectors, you have to know the code. >>So there's no way to know it all. So you guys are scanning it doing things, but it's also huge system. It's not just one piece of code. You talking about cloud is becoming an operating system. It's a distributed computing environment, so whole new area of problem space to solve. So I love that. Love that piece. Where are you guys at on this now? How do you feel in terms of where you are in the progress bar of the solution? Because the supply chain is usually a hardware concept. People can relate to, but when you bring in software, how you source software is like sourcing a chip or, or a piece of hardware, you got to watch where it came from and you gotta track track that. So, or scan it and validate it, right? So these are new, new things. Where are we with? >>So you're, you're you're right. We have a lot of moving parts. And really the supply chain terms of came from the automobile industry. You have a car, you have an engine engine might be created by a different vendor. You have the wheels, they might be created by a different vendor. So when you buy your next Chevy or Ford, you might have a wheels from continental or other than the first. And actually software is very similar. When we build software, we host it on a cloud provider like AWS, GCP, Azure, not on our own infrastructure anymore. And when we're building software, we're using open-source packages that are maintained in the other half of the war. And we don't always know in person, the people who've created that piece. And we do not have a vetting process, even a human vetting process on these, everything that we've created was really made by us or by a trusted source. >>And this is where we come in. We help you empower you, the engineer, we tools to analyze all of the dependency tree of your software, bill of materials. We will scan your infrastructure code, your application packages that you're using from package managers like NPM or PI. And we scan those open source dependencies. We would verify that your CIC is secure. Your version control system is secure. And the thing that we will always focus on is making a fixed accessible to you. So let's say that you're using a misconfigured backup. We have a bot that will fix the code for you. And let's say that you have a, a vulnerable open-source package and it was fixed in a later version. We will bump the version for you to make your code secure. And we will also have the same process on your run time environment. So we will understand that your environment is secure from code to cloud, or if there are any three out there that your engineering team should look at, >>That's a great service. And I think this is cutting edge from a technology perspective. What's what are some of the new cloud native technologies that you see in emerging fast, that's getting traction and ultimately having a product market fit in, in this area because I've seen Cooper. And you mentioned Kubernetes, that's one of the areas that have a lot more work to do or being worked on now that customers are paying attention to. >>Yeah, so definitely Kubernetes is, has started in growth companies and now it's existing every fortune 100 companies. So you can find anything, every large growler scale organization and also serverless functions are, are getting into a higher adoption rate. I think that the thing that we seeing the most massive adoption off is actually infrastructure as code during COVID. A lot of organization went through a digital transformation and in that process, they have started to work remotely and have agreed on migrating to a new infrastructure, not the data center, but the cloud provider. So at other teams that were not experienced with those clouds are now getting familiar with it and getting exposed to new capabilities. And with that also new risks. >>Well, great stuff. Great to chat with you. I want to ask you while you're here, you mentioned depth infrastructure as code for the folks that get it right. There's some significant benefits. We don't get it. Right. We know what that looks like. What are some of the benefits that can you share personally, or for the folks watching out there, if you get it for sure. Cause code, right? What does the future look like? What does success look like? What's that path look like when you get it right versus not doing it or getting it wrong? >>I think that every engineer dream is wanting to be impactful, to work fast and learn new things and not to get a PagerDuty on a Friday night. So if you get infrastructure ride, you have a process where everything is declarative and is peer reviewed both by you and automated frameworks like bridge and checkoff. And also you have the ability to understand that, Hey, once I re I read it once, and from that point forward, it's reproducible and it also have a status. So only changes will be applied and it will enable myself and my team to work faster and collaborate in a better way on the cloud infrastructure. Let's say that you'd done doing infrastructure as code. You have one resource change by one team member and another resource change by another team member. And the different dependencies between those resources are getting fragmented and broken. You cannot change your database without your application being aware of that. You cannot change your load Bonser without the obligation being aware of that. So infrastructure skullduggery enables you to do those changes in a, in a mature fashion that will foes Le less outages. >>Yeah. A lot of people getting PagerDuty's on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and on the old way, new way, new, you don't want to break up your Friday night after a nice dinner, either rock, do you know? Well, thanks for coming in all the way from Tel-Aviv really appreciate it. I wish you guys, everything the best over there in Delhi, we will see you at the event that's coming up. We're looking forward to the code to cloud summit and all the great insight you guys will have. Thanks for coming on and sharing the story. Looking forward to talking more with you Brock thanks for all the insight on security infrastructures code and all the cool things you're doing at bridge crew. >>Thank you, John. >>Okay. This is the cube conversation here at Palo Alto, California. I'm John furrier hosted the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>From the cube studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cute conversation. >>Everyone. Welcome to the cube conversation here from our Palo Alto studios. I'm John furrier, host of the cube. We're here with our remote crew, getting all the interviews, getting all the stories that matter during this time were all sheltering in place during the COVID crisis. We've got a great returning guest, John Madison, EVP of products and chief marketing officer. Fordanet John. Great to see you, uh, looking good with the home studio. They're getting used to it. Yeah, indeed. Good to be here again, John. Thanks for coming. I really appreciate it. We're hearing a lot about sassy, which has a secure access network adjuncts, zero trust network access. Uh, what does that all mean now these days? What does this sassy? Well, there's definitely a lot of hype around the word sassy, which is the security of the age. Uh, for us actually it confirms a strategy that we've had since the beginning of the company. >>And two important concepts. One is, uh, the coming together of, uh, networking and security. We could refer to it as security driven networking, and we've been doing it using ACX and appliances for a long time. Uh, we're now going to expand it to a cloud as well as that's one concept, again, bringing together networking and security or converging them in a way. And then the second concept is more around a platform approach. So if you look at the definition of sassy, it includes, it includes web gateway as a service you a trust Caz B, a wife, et cetera. And so bringing those together in a platform approach, we refer to it as the fabric. So we're actually really happy about those two concepts coming together. Maybe the name itself could be, could be different, but definitely the concepts and the technologies play really well to our strategy. >>Yeah, it's sassy. S a S E not two ways, not like SAS softwares of service. Wait for one noses cloud. Yeah. I tried using the full name and I've reverted back to sassy again. So short and sassy, keep it short and sweet. Um, okay, well this is a super important relevant topic for multiple reasons. One is COVID is kind of accelerated the future for everybody. And you know, we've been kind of riffing on Twitter and throughout the industry I've been calling it the big IOT, uh, experiment because the unforecasted disruption of COVID is forced everyone to work at home. So the notion of work changes workplace is now home workforce, the people, how their interaction with the networks, workloads, workflows, all changing new expectations, new experiences. This is the real deal. And the edge is where the action is. That's the big, new obvious architectural highlight here. >>Yeah, so we talked last time. I think it would just be getting this work from home, uh, element, but, um, we're still here. And I think what it says is that what is forced is that, uh, enterprises and customers need to look at their edges and they're increasing. So we always, the one edge was a new one over the last two years. As we introduced us the, when they had a data center edge, they had an endpoint edge and now you have a home edge. And so you've got to apply security as a cloud edge as well. You've got to apply security to these edges. And the key is the flexibility to apply the security you want and you need against this agent. And so we're seeing some customers right now, look at setting up mini enterprise networks to protect that home age again, in that, in the homes of their executives or developers. >>And we reported with the news. You guys had a couple of months ago around just as such been a feeding frenzy for hackers and bad actors to go after the home environment. Um, as well as the it guys who are working from home, you have the cloud consumption's shifted as well. You're seeing the cloud players doing extremely well because now you have more cloud, you have more vulnerabilities at the edge with the home. This is changing completely increasing the attacks. >>Yeah. The tack factors, you know, predominantly, still actually, you know, a lot of fishing, but then if you're on the network, that attack factor is very important. So for us, and, you know, we did an acquisition last week of opaque networks because that gave us an additional consumption model and different additional form factor. So if somebody going from the home straight into the cloud, or the pairing off a branching off an SD Wang connection straight into the cloud, we can now apply that cloud edge security throughout our sassy capabilities. And so again, the ability to have security at all, these edges has become very important going forward. So for us now we've got appliances, we've got virtual machines, we've got cloud delivery, and this is becoming very important to customers. I'm not saying, and customers are not saying they're going to go to just cloud only going forward. They're going to be hybrid. And so having those options is very important. >>You mentioned opaque networks, we reported that acquisition. Congratulations. What does that mean for Fordanet and where does that technology fit? And you mentioned software. Can you just take a minute to explain the acquisition impact Affordanet and where does the tech fit? >>Well, as I said, we've been driving a lot of this conversion, sassy conversions through our appliances. Um, but it's sometimes makes sense to put that security closer to the cloud during points or wherever. And so opaque, we really liked their model of building out these hyper hearing stations and making sure they got high-speed security there as well as edges. And so, um, we bring, we're going to bring that inside our environment, uh, update it to include some of our technology, uh, but it gives us now great flexibility, uh, of applying that security at the SD wan edge, the data center agent now without edge or longer-term roadmaps will integrate orchestration capabilities. It also includes a zero trust network access capability as well. So really when we looked at our, uh, of sassy framework, uh, we had most of the things in place. This now adds firewall as a service as well as zero trust network access, giving us the most complete sassy framework in the marketplace. >>What is the security component of the work at home? You mentioned earlier, there's more networks and companies are looking to kind of up level the capabilities. Can you give an example and take us through what that like and what companies are thinking about, because it's not just, here's some extra money for your home bandwidth, your people are working there. It's like, it's gotta be industrial strength edge. Now it's not just, um, you know, temporary and their kids are home too. So you got they're gaming, they're watching Netflix, people zooming in and doing WebExes all day long. >>Yeah, it can be as simple as putting a zero trust network access, you know, an agent on there and doing some security locally, and then going back through a proxy in a, we believe actually that it's, it can be even better than that. That can apply many enterprise security in your house through a next gen firewall, give high availability through SD wan, uh, then, you know, expand out their secure access and switching and end points. And we can do that today. I think what's going to be key going forward is as you're dealing as it, uh, teams have to deal with more of a consumer approach remotely in the homes, we're gonna have to simplify the way things get set up, such that you can easily separate out, maybe home usage from corporate enterprise users. So that will be something we'll be working on over the next 18 months. >>I mean, just the provisioning, the hardware, okay, here you go. Plug it in it. Should it be plug and play? And this is kind of back to the future of where SAS is going. I mean, the old days was plug and play was the technology. Now you've hit that concept. It has to be auto configured. You have to provision pretty quickly. What's the future of sassy in your mind. >>Yeah. And so, you know, if you think about, you know, coming back to the home usage, then people have dumbed down those routers and the security is very simplistic. So we, people can just plug and play. If you, it needs to be a bit more sophisticated. Uh, you're going to need to put some tools in place. We believe longterm that the sassy model, once you've got the platforms in place, once you've got SD wan in place, your Cosby or your sassy zero trust and longterm, you're going to need an orchestration system. That's more AI driven. So we've done a lot of work on AI around security and making sure we can see things very quickly. Um, but the longterm goal, I think will be around AI ops, AI network ops, uh, where the system and the big data systems are looking across your network, across these different components to see where there may be an issue. Maybe there's a certain length has gone down across a certain ISP. We need to bring that back up. Maybe there's a certain cure or as to an application in the cloud somewhere. So we need to change the OnRamp. Uh, so once everything's in place and you have that console and policy engine that can look across everything, and then we need to get smarter by looking at the data and the logs, et cetera, and applying some of that AI technology. >>You know, John, we've been following Fordanet as you know, for many, many years and watching the evolution of you guys as a company. And also as the industry, the new waves are coming in. Um, a lot of the stuff you're doing with the fabric and now the secure driven networking has been kind of on the playbook. So I want to get your thoughts before we get into those topics and define them and kind of unpack them. But generally customers are looking at, um, a slew of vendors out there and you have 10 of two approaches. You have a platform, and then you have the we're an application or fully full stack or SAS or something. And this there's trade offs between the two. And how should customers understand the difference? Because there's different value propositions for each platforms, more enabling out of the box, SAS or point solution can solve a particular thing, but it may not have that breadth. How should customers think about a platform approach or fabric and how should they think about the value and how to engage with that longterm? >>Yeah, I'm definitely seeing more customers look towards a platform going forward. They just can't manage all the different point solutions and you don't have to train an individual in that product. You have to have a separate management console, you have to integrate it. And so more and more I'm finding customers wanting to converge, which is the basis of sassy consolidate applications onto a platform of security applications. What's important over that platform is that the consumption model is flexible enough to be an appliance, to be a virtual machine and to be cloud delivery does as a customer's networks move and their orchestration systems move into different, more cloud, or they've got their IP enabling their factories, for example, then they need that security to be flexible. So yes, you need to be a platform as the way forward. Um, but two things. One is you need a flexible consumption model for it. You know, clients, virtual machine and cloud. And also that platform needs to be very open. It needs to have connectors into the main orchestration systems that needs to allow people to build API and automation. So, uh, yes, you, you need a platform, but it needs to be open and it needs to be flexible. >>Great, great insight there. And that's exactly what the marketing, especially with cloud the kind of scale, second follow up question to that is how do you tell the difference between a tool camouflage is a platform. So I have a tool I want to sell you a tool, but no, it's a platform. So a lot of people are peddling tools and saying their platforms. How do you know the difference? >>Well, to me, a platform that has much greater scope across the attack surface festival, they attack factors whether that be email or application the network, the end point. So platforms not just of a specific attack back to go across the complete surface. And then also a platform is Wednesday organically built, allows those products to communicate. So then you can build automation across it. It's very hard to build automation across two or three different vendors. They have different scripts. So been able to build that automation. And then of course, on top of that, to have a single view, single visibility capability, as well as longterm applied that AI ops across it. So platform is very, very different from the, some of the tools I've seen in the marketplace. >>I want to get to your reaction to a comment that your CEO said about security driven, networking, and underscores what we've been saying for years, blah, blah, blah. He goes on in this era of hyperconnectivity and expanding networks with the network edge stretching across the entire digital infrastructure, um, networking and security have to be kind of be their, their convergence. You mentioned describe how you view hyper-connectivity and expanding networks and how the edge stretches across the digital infrastructure. What's what does that look like? Can you share your vision of that? >>Well, when you think about networking, if you go back 20 years, when you have these 10 megabit per second connections, learning, networking, and routing and switching, they haven't really changed that much over the last eight years, 20 years, they've just got a lot faster, gone to now to 400. You give us a second, but the basic functionality is the same. And so it's allowed them to go a lot faster. Um, security is very different, even though it started off with firewalling than VPN, and then next gen firewall, SSL inspection, all these functionalities IPS have been added, making a lot harder for it to keep up in the network. And so one of the fundamental principles of security and networking is bringing these two things together, but accelerating them either using a six and now cloud through our acquisition, uh, to allow those to run in a converged format. >>And that's very important because as I said, there's now more, you can look at it two ways. You can say the perimeter has expanded because it used to be a very narrow perimeter. The data center across these areas, or at the edges have formed as well. There's new edges sitting at the OT environment, sitting at the wan edge, sitting at the home mattress. I talked about seeing the cloud edge. And so the ability to apply that security in very high performance, very high quality security, not just a small sampling of security, a full enterprise stack, but those edges is going to be critical going forward. And the flexibility to apply in different ways is going to be very important. >>I think the convergence piece is totally relevant and honestly it consolidating into a platform is very key point there. Um, while I got you here, I would just like you I'd like you to define what is security driven networking and what does it mean to be security driven? So define security, driven, networking, and give an example of what it means. >>Yeah. And so I think it's, I think the one edge was one of the best examples of it. I mean, actually go before that next gen Fila was where you bought firewalling and then content inspection to go there. But I think the latest one is definitely the one edge or secure SD land where you had a networking function, which was to get the users to the right applications. And so they got this application now steering that goes out through there. Well, you also want to apply security to that because security into the wham, you've also got to protect the land. And so the ability to run a security stack there, whether it be IDs, right, patient control is very important. So getting all those networking functions, working at high speed, getting all the security functions, working at high speed, uh, is that it's the kind of the Genesis of security driven networking, and you can apply it there. We can also apply it in other places at the age, in the cloud. Now the home, uh, it's a very, very important concept, uh, to be able to run networking and security together. But high speed, >>Everyone has their own kind of weird definition of sassy, depending on when you're building your own or different analyst firms. Uh, I noticed you guys have a different take on this. Even Gartner has a different view on this. How do you guys diff differ from that, that definition and what should people be aware of when they hear that? What is the right definition? >>Yeah. You know, it's unfortunate. I mean, I think Ghana does some good work there and that they define it and I've come up with sassy, but this is like acronym soup. And, you know, I want a bit of next gen firewall on my sassy. It's just, it's just so many different terms. It confuses the customer. Then what makes it more confusing is that vendors look at their portfolio and go, Oh, sassy is a hot topic. I've got a sassy as well. And really, it should be very clear what the definition from Gardner is. It is bringing together security and networking. Now their definition is that they, uh, you should do that in the cloud, which we agree with as well, but it can only be in the cloud. The reason it's in the cloud is because not many people have got the ability to run on an appliance very fast. >>So we believe our different stairs that you should be able to run it on an appliance virtual machine in cloud. And then the second kind of differences that they've defined the components of Sassies being Estee, wagon, Cosby, firewalls, a service zero trust. We also think that the land age is very important. So we would add into that definition, that secure access of wifi and Ethan at switching as well. And so we try and point out, you know, the gun definition and we also point out where we differ and I think that's fair to the customer can make a good decision. >>I think it is fair. And I think one of the things I've been saying for years, and I love garden, I love the guys over there and gals. I just don't think that their business model is real time as much, but they ended up kind of getting it right down the road. But you brought up a good point. And again, I've been saying this for years, cloud changes Gartner's model because there's, if you have quadrants, it implies silos and implies categories. And one of the best things about cloud is it does horizontally scale. So some of the best vendors actually have multiple capabilities that might fall on different quadrants that may or may not be judged on a criteria that meets what cloud's doing. So, yeah, for instance, Asics, you mentioned right. That's in there too. You get cloud and ACX is that where they've got two different categories? You add the edge in there. If you do all three, really great as an integrated, converged and consolidated platform, you're technically awesome, but you might not fit in the quadrant. >>Yes. That's a really good point. I have this conversation with them all the time in that traditionally enterprises have a networking teams and security teams, and they've been in silos or I've had a networking team that just does switching or just this routing, just this SD wan. And I have a security team that does web gateway, and then they like to separate them all into different components. When you look inside those Nike quadrants, they're all different, even at the same vendor, the different products. And what we like to do is bring it all together. You a single operating system, a single appliance or cloud virtual machine. Sometimes it's not quite, it doesn't quite fit the model, but in the end, you're trying to do the same thing. Know, and COVID-19 >>One of the real realities that everyone's dealing with is it does expose everything and an expose. And again, it's been a disruption unforecasted, but it's not like an outage or a flood or a hurricane. If it happened and it's happening, it really puts the pressure on looking at the network. It's looking at how you can have continuous operations. How are you working with your people and workloads, workforces apps. You got to have it all there. And if you're not digitally enabled, you're going to be on the wrong side of history. This is what companies are facing every day. And they've got to come back and double down on the right project. So every CXO I talk about, that's the number one challenge I need to come out of the pandemic with a growth strategy and an architecture. That's going to allow me to take advantage of the new realities. Hey, it's really good for people to work at home. That's cool. Some people are going to continue to do that. Maybe that's normal. Maybe that's a new tactic >>And it's going to vary by industry as well. So if I'm a retail outlet, I absolutely need it 100% of the time, but those retail outlets cause people are ordering online and then they're driving up. And so it has changed the dynamics. It's for me working at home, I have to be on all the time. And so the ability to do really good, high quality networking, high availability, high IQ of as, with this integrated security across the different edges is super critical. >>I was talking with a network friend of mine. Again, we were having a few zoom cocktails and do a little social networking online. And we were like, and we've, and we've mentioned it before in the queue, but we keep coming back to the land is the new land. And meaning that it's in the old days, land was everything, everything, the local area network, and you were inside the data center, everything was great on premises. When is the new land? So if you think about it that way you go, okay, when edge I got a, now Atlanta at home, you got to SD wan and your house, of course you worked for Fournette. So it's a little bit beneficial for you, your, your, your, your geek there, but this is the new normal where it's all one network. It's not just a land link, it's a system. Can you react to that? What's your take on that? When is the new land kind of ref, >>First of all, it can't be too picky. He goes on the CMO as well. So there's no talk about the geekiness. Um, but, um, it's just, it just makes as a skip saying, it's, it's, it's making sure that wherever you may be, uh, you know, you're doing less traveling these days, but that may come back at some point or where they are at a branch office or a campus environment or wherever applications, and then moving around in different clouds, in different areas, in terms of consumption of workloads, um, wherever that's happening, you gotta be able to be flexible and applying that security to the different edges, land edge, one edge home edge data center edge. And so the ability to do that, uh, while providing high speed and connectivity, uh, is very important. And then again, as you go forward and you implement that platform approach. So not just the point product now, three or four products working together, uh, being able to apply that policy orchestration and AI ops is going to make sure that they get that user in the end. It's all about the user experience. Do I have a high quality of experience, whatever application I'm using? That's the key measurement in the end? >>You know, one observation I would have, if you look back at the whole virtualization trend, going back to the early days of VMware, that kind of enabled Amazon and kind of having a large scale kind of infrastructure, hyperconvergence really kind of collapsed everything together. And now you seeing things with Amazon, like outposts, you seeing, you know, these non premises devices, which is basically one cloud operations kind of highlights what you're saying here. And I want to get your thoughts on this because the combination of Asics with cloud, it's not a bug, it's a feature for you guys. That's a value proposition and it's kind of consistent with some of the big players like AWS. When you look at what they're doing and apprenticeships, for instance, what they're putting in the servers, having that combination of horsepower Asex with cloud is a guiding principle of the future architecture. Can you share your thoughts was also, you guys are, are announcing that and have that feature. >>Yeah, well, w another reason why I like the opaque acquisition as they were their major appearing pubs into the different cloud service providers that were using hardware and that hardware, uh, we, we can run hardware and with our Asics almost 50, a hundred times faster than equipment CPU. So I've got a firewall application I've gone on appliance. There, I may need a hundred virtual machines and, and CPU they're running the same thing. So again, we're coming back to our definition of security driven, networking in our minds. It can be basic, it can be virtual machine and it can be cloud. Now, imagine if we can take the best benefits of basic and combine that with cloud, uh, that's a great model going forward again, given that flexibility. So when people think cloud something has to run on something, it doesn't run in fresh air. So, you know, the big cloud vendors are putting in some Asex to accelerate some of the AI stuff, and we're going to use the same thing in some of our major, what we call 40 sassy. You know, our naming methodology is 40, whatever it does or going forward to provide us that performance and high availability now. Yeah. So you're always going to need some flexibility of virtual machines in certain areas, but we think the combination of both, it gives us a great advantage. Yeah. >>And there's definitely evidence that, I mean, there's a, there's kind of two schools of thought on hardware. Are you a box mover, you know, commodity general purpose, or are you using the hardware and a system architecture, acceleration has been a huge advantage, whether I've seen companies doing accelerated Kubernetes processing, you know, for clusters and some, you know, see GPS are out there. It's, it's, it's how you use the hardware. Yeah. That's the, really the key it's and again, back to the architecture. So, okay. So wrapping up, if you, if you believe that, and you look at the fabric that you guys are having out there, and as it evolves, what's the, what's the next level for 400. How do you see this going forward? You've got security driven networking, and you got the fabric. What's next? What are you guys working on the product side? >>I know you're public, you can't reveal any future earnings, but give us a taste of kind of the direction on the roadmap. I think, you know, we've got now all the, all the kind of component that underlying components of the platform in terms of the ability to apply appliances, deliver it by appliances or virtual machine or cloud. Um, we've got a very broad portfolio from endpoint, uh, all the way into, to the cloud and the networks, all those things that are in place. Obviously you always need some features here and there as you go forward and nest it when and next gen firewall, et cetera. Um, but I think the longterm, I think a goal for his nine is to, again, to apply a bit more intelligence, uh, both from a security perspective and from a network perspective, such that we can predict things, we can automatically change things. >>We can build automation and react to things much more quickly. So I think the building blocks are in place. Now. I think it's the ability to provide a bit more smarts across it, uh, which of course takes big data and very specific application programming. And I think, uh, definitely our customers are asking us about that. And we look very closely with our customers to build out that, to make sure it meets their needs going forward while it's great to see the platform continue to grow and, and fill in a holistic view of the, of the landscape from edge to throughout the enterprise. So a great strategy and thanks for the update, John Madison, the VP of product and CMR for that. John. Great to have you on. Thanks for coming on extra. Okay. This is the cube conversation here in Palo Alto studios. I'm Chad for a year hosting the cube. Thanks for watching.

from the silicon angle media office in Boston Massachusetts it's the cube now here's your host David on tape the imperative to protect data has never been more pressing as companies transform themselves from businesses into digital businesses the intrinsic value of their data Rises exponentially the problem for infrastructure pros is that everything in IT is additive it seems like nothing ever dies which means more things to manage now think about that when you're protecting data you have bare metal VMs now containers you've got cloud you got to worry about the edge all this data needs to be protected not only does this increase complexity it expands the attack surface for adversaries wanting to steal or ransom your data at the heart of all this is a build out of a massively global distributed cloud we saw wave 1 of the cloud which was public wave 2 was really hybrid and that's evolving now in parallel you're seeing the emergence of multi cloud and as I said these earlier trends are additive they're not replacements and with me to discuss these important issues and how Dell EMC specifically is pivoting toward cloud data protection is Beth Phelan who is the president of Dell emcs Data Protection Division that's great to see you well good to be here again so we know the world is hybrid it's a fundamental the on-prem stuff is part of the fundamental digital digital transformations of these these companies and now you've got data protection for the cloud so what do you see happening in that world yeah let's start with what we're seeing in the market we recently remade on our global data protection index we've been doing it for many years and we've been really using that to help us understand the landscape and what our customers need and first not surprisingly it shows that continued trend of movement and reliance towards cloud environments for business applications continuing to increase on top of that the customers despite that are continuing to struggle with ensuring they have the right data protection for their cloud environments right so they're they're struggling you see that we see that as well what what's going on there well what is the data tell you yeah first of all more than half of the customers don't have a comprehensive data protection solution for their Salas cloud native and multi cloud environments more than two-thirds of the customers who may be relying on their cloud service providers for data protection say that they do not have a solution that covers all of their workloads so whether they're working with a cloud service provider or some other vendor they're being really clear that they do not have a comprehensive approach to cloud data protection yeah so I mean you see the cloud adoption is going like crazy but it seems like the data protection component is lagging how is that affecting the traction in your business yeah you know it's a double-edged sword right on one level customers see the advantages of moving to a cloud on the other hand you know they are really looking for vendors that they can partner with to still have the same confidence that the data is protected that they have on Prem and what we're seeing now is that customers are turning to us to help solve that problem we have over a thousand customers using Dell EMC for their Cloud Data Protection and we're narrowing in on three exabyte the data that we're currently protecting in the cloud so it's happening yeah that's pretty good traction so I want to talk about VMware obviously VMware is the linchpin of many customers hybrid strategy and it's a clearly an important component of Dell technologies talk a little bit about the relationship between Dell EMC data protection specifically and VMware I'm interested in you know they've announced project tenzou and there's kubernetes how are you guys working together to really deliver a value for customers so we are super excited about the opportunity to work so closely with VMware because as they're cut in their domain we're working directly with them and that's an advantage that comes with being part of the dell technologies family and so we were the first company to bring data protection for were kubernetes environments out to market it's available now so you'll see us bring that into the tenzou mission-critical has been moved forward partnering closely with with vmware and of course we're already fully certified for vmware cloud it's really an ongoing regular conversation about how we can work together to bring the best to our customers so Beth I gotta ask you so you're part of your role as the leader of the the division is obviously you gotta get a lot of mouths to feed big division you got to make your plan you got to deliver for customers but strategy is another key component of this how do all these cloud trends shape your strategy so core to our strategy is to be the essential provider of data protection for multi cloud environments so no matter where customers are choosing to deploy their applications they can have the same confidence that they always did that that data is protected and the way they can get it back so that's core and if you want three words to remember for our strategy think VMware cloud and cyber cloud is central to it and you're going to be hearing a lot more about it in the weeks and months ahead okay so I gotta ask you break out your binoculars maybe even the telescope what are the future what are the future's look like when you think about the division and the market so we've been talking about cloud for a long time but we are still in the middle of this journey customers are going to rely on the cloud even more for additional use cases and especially in the data protection space right now we're seeing backup to the cloud dr to the cloud but the future will include cyber resiliency that's leveraging cloud deployments you're also going to see more and more of an emphasis on people leveraging SAS for their software consumption and for us that means not only protecting SAS applications but it also means giving customers the option to consume data protection in a SAS model we already do that today with things like cloud snapshot manager with things like the power protect management and orchestration but you're going to see us do even more of that because they're just incredible benefits of people leveraging sass to consume their software data constantly evolving lamps landscape data protection has to evolve with it Beth thanks so much for thank you and thank you keep it right there we'll be right back right after this short break from world famous cloud Studios Dell Technologies presents the world's number one show on data protection solutions for today's organizations it's proven in modern magazine with Jake and Emmy hello everyone and welcome to the premiere of PM magazine where we cover the proven Dell technology solutions that you've come to rely on and the latest modern innovation driving powerful data protection for the future I recently spent some quality time with one of our customers and I learned a thing or two about Dell proven data protection solutions let's watch the clip we've always relied on tell performance efficiency and scale to help us keep pace with our data protection needs but there's so much more for example we've been crushing it with Dell cloud data protection for backup to the cloud in cloud backup cloud tearing cloud dr uh-huh look at the picture it's a huge business advantage how so our costs are down we spend less time on management we're meeting our service levels and we have peace of mind that all of our data is protected right awesome did you talk about how Dells agile development approach is accelerating the speed at which we deliver customer value yes and how cloud capabilities will continue to grow yes and about VMware protection yes and cyber recovery yes I mean we covered all of that as well as the mega trends that require data protection with a modern approach well modern is exactly what our guests today are here to discuss Jake he is Ken fatale a noted data protection expert and joining us from the field on her vacation in the Bahamas is Barbara Penner of the data management Institute thank you both for being here so Ken what should our viewers think about when they hear the phrase modern data protection they should think new requirements for modern applications cloud native workloads Cubana is multi-cloud and data services to name a few Barbara would you add anything to that list I would add business service recovery on premises or in the cloud autonomous protection to auto detect and protect workloads across edge core and cloud infrastructure and lastly all of this must operate at global scale thank you both this is exactly where we're heading with Dell power protect solutions well it's time for a break but when we come back we've got something special in store for you don't we Jake I was hoping you forgot oh no someone learned how to make cream puffs and it did not turn out well for him yeah my apologies in advance to my mother who tried to show me around the kitchen but as you can see we'll be right back [Music] we're back with Rob and Rob Emslie who's the director of product marketing for Delhi MCS data protection division Rob good to see you hi Dave good to be back so we just heard from Beth about some of the momentum that you guys have from your perspective from a product angle what is really driving this yeah well one of the things that we've you know definitely seen is that as we talk to our customers both existing and new customers cloud journeys is is top of mind for all of the CIOs it's being driven by either the desire to drive efficiency take out costs and data protection is one of the the most common use cases and one of the things that we find is that there's four use cases for data protection that we see long term retention of data cloud disaster recovery backup to the cloud and the emerging desire to stand up new applications in the cloud that need to be protected so backup in the cloud really completes the four major use cases well one of the things I think is really important this market is that you deliver optionality to your customers so how are our customers enabling these use cases yeah so the the first two UK's first two use cases of long term retention and cleitus recovery is is really driven by our software on our appliances both of those are really predicated based upon the assumption that customers are going to deploy data protection on premises to protect their on-premises workloads and then it's here to the cloud or which is becoming more common used to cloud as a disaster recovery target you know it's delivered by our data protection software and that's either in a software form factor or that software delivered in an integrated appliance form factor so let's talk about purpose-built backup appliances I think you know our friends at IDC I think you know coined that they tracked that market for a while you guys have been a leader there the acquisition of data domain obviously put you in a really strong position give us the update there is it's still a vibrant market is it growing what's the size it's it look like yeah so as we look at 2020 you know IDC forecasts the market size to be a little under five billion dollars so it's still a very large market the overall market is growing at a little over four percent but the interesting thing is that if you think about how the market is is made up it's made up of two different types of appliances one is a target appliance such as data domain and the new power protect dd and the other is integrated appliances where you integrate the target appliance architecture with data protection software and it's the integrated appliance part of the market that is really growing faster than the other part of the of the people being market it's actually growing at 8% in fact IBC's projection is that by 2022 half of the purpose-built back to appliance market will be made up of integrated appliance solutions so it's growing at twice the overall market rate but you guys have two integrated appliances what why - how should people think about those yeah so a little under three years ago we introduced a new integrated appliance the called the integrated data protection appliance it was really the combination of our backup software with our data domain appliance architecture and the integrated air protection appliance has been our workhorse for the last three years really allowing us to to support that that fastest-growing segment of the market in fact last year the integrated air protection appliance grew by over a hundred percent so triple digit growth was great you know it's something that you know allows us to address all market segments all the way down to SMB all the way to the enterprise but last year one of the things you may remember at Delta Nadi's world is we introduced our power to protect portfolio you know and that constituted power protect data manager our new software to find platform as well as the delivery of packet there in an integrated appliance form-factor with perfectly x400 so that's really our our new scale out data protection appliance we've never had a scale out appliance in the architecture before in the portfolio before and that gives us the ability to offer customers choice scale up or scale out integrated and target and with the X 400 it's available is a hybrid configuration or it's also our first or flash architecture so really we're providing customers with the existing software solutions that we've had in the market for a long time an integrated form factor with the integrator protection appliance as well as the brand-new software platform that will really be our innovation engine that will be where we'll be looking at supporting new workloads and certainly leaning into how we support cloud air protection and the hybrid cloud reality of the next decade okay so one of the other things I want to explore is we've heard a lot about your new agile development organization Beth has talked about that a lot and the benefit obviously is you're more you're able to get products out more quickly respond to market changes but ultimately the proof is in translating that development into product what can you tell us about how that's progressing yep so certainly with Papa Tech Data Manager and the X 400 that really is the the epicenter of our agile product development activities you know we've moved to a three-month cadence for software releases so working to deliver a small batch releases into the market much more rapidly than we've ever done before in fact since we introduced palpitate Denham manager where we we shipped the first release in July we're now at the third iteration of palpitate Data Manager and therefore the third iteration of the x100 appliance so there's three things that you know I'd like to highlight within the x100 appliance specifically first is really the the exciting news that we've introduced support for kubernetes so we're really the first you know large enterprise data protection vendor to to lean into providing kubernetes data protection so that becomes the vitally important especially with the developments over our partner in VMware with vSphere 7 with the introduction of tan zoo and the reality is that customers will have both these fear virtual machines and kubernetes containers working side-by-side and both of those environments need to be protected soap a patek denim algae and the x400 appliance has that support available now for customers to take advantage of second we talked about long-term retention of of data in the cloud the x100 appliance has just received the capabilities to also take part in long term retention to AWS so those are two very important cloud capabilities that are brand-new with the excellent appliance and then finally we introduced yet 400 appliance with a maximum configuration of four capacity cubes rough-and-tough that was 400 terabytes of usable capacity we've just introduced support of 12 capacity cubes so that gives the customers the ability to scale out the x100 appliance from 64 terabytes all the way to over a petabyte storage so now if you look at our two integrated appliances we now cover the landscape from small numbers of terabytes all the way through to a petabyte of capacity whether or not you pick a scale up architecture or a scale length architecture yeah so that really comes back to the point I was making about optionality and kubernetes is key it's gonna be a linchpin obviously a portability for multi cloud sets that up as we've said it's it's not the be-all end-all but it's a really necessary condition to enable multi cloud which is fundamental to your strategy absolutely alright Rob thanks very much for coming on the cube it's great to have you thanks Dave and thank you for watching everybody this is Dave Volante for the cube we'll see you next time [Music]

>>Live from San Diego, California at the cue covering to clock in cloud native con brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem Marsh. >>Welcome back to the cube here in San Diego for cube con cloud native con 2019. It's our fourth year of doing the cube here. I'm Stu Miniman. It's my fourth time I've done this show. Joining me is Justin Warren. He's actually been to more of the coupons than the cube has, I think at least in North America. And welcome into the program to two veterans of these events from pure storage. Uh, sitting to my right is she'll be uh, Shrivastava who's a director of product marketing and sitting to her right is Anthony lay Ferrario who's a senior product manager, uh, both of you with pure storage. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having us. All right, so, so we, we were kind of joking about veterans here because we know that things are moving faster and faster. You both work for storage companies. Storage is not known to be the fastest moving industry. Um, it's been fascinating for me to watch kind of things picking up the pace of change, especially when you talk about, uh, you know, how developers and you know, software and a multicloud environment, a fit-out. So she'll be maybe, you know, give us a frame for, you know, you, you know, you're in a Cooper ladies tee shirt here pures at the show. How should we be thinking about pure in this ecosystem? >>Sure. Yeah. So, uh, you're, as, you know, we, we side off as all flash on brand storage company, uh, 10 years ago and, uh, we've kept pace with constantly innovating and making sure we're meeting our customer's needs. One of the areas of course that we see a lot of enterprises moving today is two words, microservices, two words, containerized applications. And our goal that you're really is to help customers modernize, modernize their applications while still keeping that store it's seamless and keeping that, uh, invisible to the application developers. >> I think it actually lines up really well if you're do just a pure sort of steam across time has been performance with simplicity. Right? And I think the simplicity argument starts to mean something different over time, but it's a place that we still want to really focus as our customers started to use, uh, try to containerize our applications. >>There are couple of challenges. We saw continued environments, of course, they're known for their, uh, agility, uh, how portable they are. They're lightweight and they're fast. And when they're fast, storage can sometimes be a bottleneck because your storage might not necessarily scale as fast. It might not be able to provision storage volumes as fast, your container environment. And that's the challenge that we at pure why to solve with our Cuban eighties integrations. Anthony, you mentioned simplicity there. So I'm going to challenge you a bit on that because Kubernetes is generally not perceived as being particularly simple and the storage interfaces as well, like stateful sets is kind of only really stabilized over the last 18 months. So how >>is pure actually helping to make the Cuban Eddie's experience simpler for developers? Yeah, and you know, you're totally right. I don't think I was necessarily saying that someone looking for the simplest thing that could ever find would adopt Kubernetes and expect to find that. But what I really meant was, you know, on one hand you have, you know, your more traditional enterprise infrastructure type folks who are trying to build out the underlying private cloud that you're going to deploy, you know, your infrastructure on. And on the other hand, you have your developers, you have your Kubernetes, you have your cloud native applications, right? And really the interface between those is where I'm looking at that simplicity argument because traditionally pure has focused on that simple interface to the end user. But the end user, as we were talking about before, the show has shifted from a person to being a machine, right? >>And the objective for pure and what we're building on the cognitive side is how do we take that simple sort of as a service consumption experience and present that on top of what looks like a traditional infrastructure platform. So I can get more into the, the details of that if you'd like, but really that that layer is where we're focused on the simplicity and really just asking the, the, uh, the end user as few questions as we can. Right. I just want to ask you, what do you need? I don't want to ask you, well, tell me about the, you know, IQN and blah, blah. They don't want that, right? That's the simplicity I'm talking about. Yeah. Well, you run developers generally, I mean, the idea of dev ops and I challenge people whenever they mentioned dev ops, and I'm hearing a pretty consistent message that developers really don't care about infrastructure and don't want to have anything to do with it at all. >>So if you can just bake it into the system and somehow make it easier to operate it, that kind of SRE level, that infrastructure level that, that Kubernetes as a platform. So once that's solved, then as a developer, I can just get on with, with writing some code. We definitely want stories to be invisible. Yeah. So if you want, but if they want stories to be invisible, that's not so great for your brand because you actually want them to know and care about having a particular storage platform. So how do you, how do you balance that idea that we want to show you that we can have to have innovative products that you care about the storage, but you also don't need to care about the storage at all because we'll make it invisible. How does that work? >>So Coupa storage for container environments has been a challenge. And what we are trying to educate the platform level users is that with the right kind of storage, it can actually be easy stores. For QA, these can be easy. And, uh, the way we make it simple or invisible is through the automation that we provide. So pure service orchestrator is our, uh, automation for storage delivery into the containerized environments. And so it's delivered to a CSI plugin, but we tried to do a little more than just develop a plugin into your Cubanetis environments. We tried to make your scalability seamless, so it's super easy to add new storage. And, um, so yeah, I think because a container environments were initially developed for States, less applications when became to staple applications, they still think about, Oh, why should I care about storage? But people are slowly realizing that we need care about it because we don't want to ultimately be bothered by it. Right. >>And if I can make, if I can make a point to just tag on to that I, the conversations I've had at the show this week, I've even helped me sort of crystallize the way I like to explain this to people, which is at first, you know, a lot of people will say, Oh, I don't, I don't do stateful application. I'm doing stateless applications and competitors. And my response is, okay, I understand that you've decided to externalize the state of your system from your Kubernetes deployment. But at some point you have to deal with state. Now, whether that's an Oracle database, you happen to be calling out to outside of your community's cluster, whether that's a service from a public cloud like S3 or whether that's deciding to internalize that state into Coobernetti's and manage it through the same management plane you have to have state. >>Now when we talk about, you know, what we're doing in PSO and why that's valuable and why, you know, to your point about the brand, I don't necessarily worry is because when we can give a seamless experience at the developer layer and we can give the SRE or the cluster manager layer a way where they can have a trusted high performance, high availability storage platform that their developers consume without knowing or worrying about it. And then as we look into the future, how do we handle cross cluster and multi-cloud stateful workloads, we can really add value there. >>Well, yeah, and I'm glad you brought up the multi-cloud piece of it because one of the more interesting things I saw from pure this year is how pure is putting in software cloud native. Um, so when I saw that one of the questions like, okay, when I come to a show like this, how does Kubernetes and containers fit into that old discussion? So how help us connect the dots as to what was announced and everything else that's happening. >>You've heard about cloud block store, which is our software running on the AWS cloud today. And uh, that's basically what we've done is we've people have loved flash array all these years for the simplicity it provides for the automation and performance. You want to give you something similar and something enterprise grade in the public cloud. The cloud, Luxor is basically, you can think of it as a virtual flash array and on the AWS cloud. So with that, you now have D duplication, 10 provisioning capabilities in the cloud. You can, um, be brought an active cluster, which is active, active, synchronous replication between availability zones. So really making your AWS environments ready for mission critical applications. Plus with our, you know, PSO just works the same way on prem as in the cloud. So it's just great for hybrid application mobility. You have the same APIs. >>Yeah, it's actually very cool. Right? One of the, one of the, you know, fun things for me as a software developer at pure, at a software side guy at pure, um, is that the API's that our arrays have are the same API. It's actually the same underlying software version even though it's a totally different hardware, hardware back end implementation. When we run in a cloud native form factor versus when we run in a physical appliance form factor, the replication engines work between the two snapshots, clones. Um, our ability to do instant, um, restores like everything that we do and that has brought value from our, our storage software stack, we still get access to in a cloud native environment and the transports as well. I guess trying to understand, is there Kubernetes involved here or is this just natively in AWS? And then then on premises itself is a, >> is a compute orchestration layer component. So when I look at Kubernetes, I'd say Kubernetes sits above both sides, right? Or potentially above and across both sides, um, depending on how you decide to structure your environment. But the nice part is if you've developed a cloud native application, right, and that's running on Kubernetes, the ability to support that with the same storage interfaces, the same SLS, move it efficiently, copy it efficiently and do that on whatever cloud you care to do. That's where it gets really cool. >>So we developed this really cool demo where you have a container application running on PSO, on flash array, on prem. We migrated that to cloud block store and on AWS and it just runs, you use the same yanno scripts in both places. There is no need to, you know, do a massive rearchitecture anything. Your application just runs when you move it. And we take care of all the data mobility with our asynchronous replications, you can take a snapshot on prem, you can snap it out into AWS, restore it back into cloud block store. So it really opens up a lot of new use cases and make them simple for customers >>that that idea of write once run anywhere. I said I'm, I'm old enough to remember when Java was a brand new thing and that was the promise. And it never quite got there because it turns out it's really, really hard to do that. Um, but we are seeing for from pure and from a lot of vendors here at the show that there's a lot of work and effort being put in into that difficult problem so that other people don't have to care about it. So you're building that abstraction in and, and working on how this particular, how the details of this work. And, uh, I was fortunate enough to get a deep dive into the end of the architecture of cloud Brock's door, just a recent accelerate conference and the way you've actually used cloud resources as if they were kind of infrastructure components and then built the abstraction on top of it, but in the same way that it runs on site, it, that's what gives you that ability to, to keep everything the same and make it simple, is doing a lot of hard work and hard engineering underneath so that no one has to care anymore. >>Yeah. And the way we've architected CloudLock store is that, you know, be as use the highest performance performing, uh, AWS infrastructure. And the highest durability it this infrastructure. So you're actually now able to buy performance and, and durability in one through one single virtual appliance as you would. >>Yeah. How's the adoption of the products going? I know it was, it was very early when it was announced just a few months ago. So what's the feedback from customers been so far about? >>It's been really positive and actually, you know, the one use case that I want to highlight really most is actually dev ops use cases, right? This, the value add of being able to have the same deployment for that application for a test or dev infrastructure in one cloud versus a production to point them in another cloud has been very exciting for folks. So, you know, when you think about that use case in particular, right? The ability to say, okay, I'm coming up to a major quarterly release or whatever I have for my product, I need to establish a bunch more test environments. I don't necessarily want to have bought that and we're not necessarily talking about, you know, bursting over the wire anymore. Right. We're talking about local, uh, local storage under the same interfaces in the cloud that you choose to spin up all of those test environments. So cases like that are pretty interesting for folks. >>Yeah. I think that's how people have started to realize that it's that operation side of things. It's not even day to day 90 and day 147 where I want to be operating this in the same place in the same way no matter where it is because it just saves me so much heartache and time of not having to re implement differently and I don't have to retrain my resources because it all looks the same. So, uh, yeah, Def does definitely have a big use case migration through verbose. That's another use case that we are seeing a lot of customers interested in and uh, disaster recovery, using it as a disaster recovery. How do you, so you can efficiently store backups on Amazon S three, but how do you do an easy fast restore to actually run your applications there? So with CloudLock store, it is now possible to do that, to do a fast, easy restore. Also a couple of weeks ago actually, we started taking registrations for a beta program for cloud Glocks or for Azure as well. Uh, yup. Customers are going multi-cloud. We are going multi-cloud with them. >>Great. I want to give you both a final word, uh, takeaways for a pure storage participation here at the show. >>I think the biggest thing that I, that I want people to understand, and I actually gave this talk at the cloud native storage day on day zero is that cloud native storage is an approach to storage. There's not a location for storage. And I think pure storage that really defines to me the way we're going about this, we're trying to be cloud native storage wherever you need it. So that's, that's really the takeaway I'd like people to have about pure >>and cute and storage for Cuban. It is, doesn't have to be hard. We are here all day today as well. So, um, I mean this is a challenge the industry seeing today and uh, we have a solution to solve that for you. >>All right, well that's a, that's a bold statement, uh, to help end us as Shilpi. Anthony, thank you so much for joining us for Justin Warren. I'm Stu Miniman back with more coverage here from cube con cloud native con 2019 stay classy, San Diego. And thanks for watching the queue.

our Studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto California this is a cute conversation hey welcome back here ready Jeff Rick here with the cube we're in our pal 2 studios today for a cube conversation to talk about a pretty interesting topic right which is the security issue that is pervasive and needs to be baked in all over the place and combining that with networking and software to find networking which is often talked about as kind of the last area of really software-defined execution and a lot of activity around SD win so we're happy to have with us today from Fortin at John Madison he's the CMO and EVP of products for fortinet John great to see you you too and also joining us from Atlanta is Hilton styrsky he is the CIO of Crawford & Company Hilton great to see you as well so let's just jump into it big issue right Crawford & Company Hilton give us a little bit of the which you guys are and more importantly kind of what a distributed company that you are y SD win and when particularly is a pretty important piece of the equation absolutely SD wins very important to us as we look at growth so I'm a confident company we are 77 year old you asked in management's claims company we we haven't focus on restoring and enhancing lives businesses in communities in 2018 we processed about one and a half million claims they are translated into north of fifteen billion dollars in payments but more importantly when you think about the insurance space and really any highly transactional organization will go through a digital disruption and korfin and company is no difference and in particular with the culture of innovation that we have a profiling company we looking at all facets of the business to disrupt and that's our basic infrastructure all the way to the business process applications that interact with our customers and when we think about the network that's the lifeblood of our organization span in seven countries with almost 9,000 employees and NATO it touches every facet of our organization and our business and being on an innovative modern technology enables us to support the Scanlan growth that's invariably coming down the pipes in this industry thank you thanks for that summary and John over to you you know we got a lot of conferences as we go to your guys conference we go to RSA and security the topic because all these security needs to bake be baked in throughout the process it can't just be added on at the end and you guys have taken that to heart so tell us a little bit about you know your guys solution in this SD win space and how you're approaching it slightly differently yes he'll concern just about every company's going through this digital disruption and that means they really need to make sure that network is of high quality high speed can access the applications but most importantly is secure so what we do is make sure with all my networking gear and SDRAM being a specific example that security is totally integrated within that solution and you do it in a different way - right you're not just doing it with software but you've actually introduced you know a hardware component into this into this equation as well yeah well now obviously the software is still very important to make sure you can orchestrate and you've got the feature set but earlier this year we announced the the world's first sd1 ASIC which allows us to get that performance of the networking stack and security stack on a single appliance we're talking about five to 10 X performance and again allows the customer such as Crawford to run and networking and their security in that single appliance so help I'm curious from your perspective I have to say I feel sorry for CIOs cuz that you know as again we go to all these shows we walk around there's so much technology and in security specifically when you walk around RSA as the the granddaddy of all those conferences you know there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of vendors and I think my goodness how do you go through how do you evaluate so you know what do you do when you're looking for technology partners among this giant sea of potential opportunities and people telling you to do this that and the other you got to find a partner that's going to help you absolutely so I mean they're number of facets that come to that but first and foremost we take security and privacy not just security extremely or seriously hope it ends because of that we rely on our cyber team to help us make decisions and drive those discussion so these relationships are not just you know come about because of benefits that we see on white papers or interactions with the PIO they really are driven from our cyber organization in the indian research that they do envy attend products we're not just looking for a sexy brands name to put in our our branches in our data centers but we're really looking for a tried and tested product and it wasn't a network that really came down to our cyber team because of the integrated nature of the ESD way and the security applies it to em i'm curious in terms of the changing kind of government regulations you know ii had gdpr we've got the California Privacy Act has that impacted your you know kind of prioritization of security and privacy or has that always just been a top priority and that's just you know kind of another box to check yeah man it's always been there we haven't seen it impacted from a sigh from a networking perspective tea to date but as we think about applications we're looking for the flexibility in the application stack to adhere to GT bernini quite frankly any other regulatory control been in the insurance industry we are highly regulated and that type of scale and flexibility is something that we look to as we build new products more modern future and John to you I'm just curious you know some of the advantages of bringing these two things together to really bake the security and the SD win appliance what is that enable you to do that you couldn't do so much before well it's all about supporting the business and the applications so corporate for example you know obviously voice is very important to me they speak to a lot of people and branch offices video training their applications in the cloud and so bringing mass security and that networking together and accelerating it means they get a high quality of service to all the applications which are important to their business so what's next John what are some of the the things as you look forward and you see this this market to continuing to evolve you guys are really starting to take a real leadership position what are some of your priorities as you as you look forward and we're gonna flip the calendar here in just a few short months you know and definitely you know sd-1 an application on our appliance has exploded we just announced we're actually in the top three in terms of sd-1 benders globally what's coming next well I think what we call cloud on-ramp isn't very important where we provide specific routes and information to make sure we have even higher QoS of devices and users getting to the applications and I knew that on the land side of it was starting to roll out something called ST branch which gives you the same kind of fabric topology view control and workflow of access from Wi-Fi from Ethernet switching and we've also integrated nak network access control which gives you that visibility control of IOT devices great so I want it I want to give you the last word you know to share with your peers as they're going through this journey a lot of talk about digital transformation but when the rubber hits the road right you actually got to do do the things and do the small things that make a difference as you've gone through this and you've dealt the security you got a lot of remote branches this continuation around hybrid cloud and and distributed infrastructure what are some of the things on your top of mind and what would you share with some of your peers as they you know start to look at some of these technologies well you've got to have an open mindset and obviously like anything it's okay to fail as long as you learn from your mistakes but as we think specifically about our network and coordinate in particular I think trying to reference some of the technologies and that that requires a lot of data so you need to understand what the future looks like and provide a scale and flexible solution for our customers and John also reference Borden ACK we are in the process of deploy in that and it's all about having that single pane of glass in an integrated solution and makes it easier for a smaller supports team to manage and ultimately Triberr you and Ally investments and other parts of their company well Hilton I know we're up against it on the time I want to thank you for for taking some time out of your busy day and lovely Atlanta and sharing your story and John you know nothing but continued success to you and fortunate we've really been happy to be part of the story and share it and come to the conference's and just another step on that on that journey to success thank you thanks a lot all right thanks gentlemen all right you've been watching the cube from our Palo Alto studios thanks for watching we'll see you next time [Music]

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering del Technologies. World twenty nineteen, brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello. Welcome back to the Cube. At least a market with Dave Alonso. We are at Del Technologies World. This is our third day of coverage. As John has been saying, This is a cannon double cannon of Q content. We are pleased to welcome back a couple of alumni to keep. We've got Beth failing Presidents data Protection division from Italians. It's great to have you back. And Sherrod Rastogi also welcome back S VP of data protection product management Guys, Lots of news. The last three days, fifteen thousand or so people. Lot of partners. We've been hearing nothing but tremendous amount of positivity and also appreciation from your customers and partners for all of this collaboration within the Della Technologies company with partners. Some of the news, though, that you were on the keynote stage give us some anecdotes that you've heard from customers and partners the last few days about where Del Technologies is going. >> Yeah, I'm happy too. And you know, a big announcements this week. We're a power protect software and the power protect extra hundred appliance. And what we're hearing from customers is this is exactly what we needed to do because the demands on data protection are changing with more more. Brooke look being distributed with data being more more important and with the risks being more more prevalent that they were looking for us to take a bold step and introduce this next generation software to find platform. And so the feedback you're getting is you've done what you needed to do, and they're looking forward to learning more. >> So I wonder if we could sort of explore a little bit this concept of data management. So data management lead needs different things to different people. Sure, if your database person maybe maybe different from a person who's doing data protection, what does it mean in a data protection context? I think >> first of all, you know, having visibility off your data all across your infrastructure that resides in the edge. The court a cloud across multiple applications in physical virtual environments, right? So having full facility that I think is one component second is not the ability to move the data across seamlessly across any socially target but it is on track in the cloud. Robert Cloud. I think that sort of a second element, the third and probably the most important is how do you actually get value from the data, right? Already, Actually, not only unable to protect it, but make it available at the right time, right place for the right application and be able to use it because, as you know, data is the fuel of the modern visual economy. On making it available is really, really critical. And that to me. So you're combining all of that is what I would consider it at management to be. >> So double click on that. I mean, could you be more specific about the attributes of, you know, a modern data management system? So I >> would say, you know, any modern technology may be modular FBI driven, you know, it really sort of the automate scale performance coverage. All those attributes, I think are very important for any more than data protection product and be able to meet the needs of our customers. You know, high scale hi coverage and rapidly, >> and that gives you a cloud like experience presumably allows you to scale out many a performance. I've seen some of the conversations that start associating with that or scale in place Bath. You talked about that? Yeah, Well, yeah. I want to explore a little bit about your business because you know who knew? Who would have predicted a few years ago? The data protection would always because all of a sudden become this hot space veces diving in hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars being spent. And of course, you're the biggest player. So everybody wants a piece of your hide. And so and you got a portfolio. It goes back up llegado days. They have amar stuff data, domaine et cetera, et cetera. She had a sort of make sure that that was logical for your customers. Protect those customers that have made investment of you, but also shoma roadmap. Jeff Clark comes in, says, Okay, we're going to simplify, you know, marching orders. Your business in a very rapid time has transformed. Can you talk about that? What's what's taking place in your business? >> Absolutely, David, it's so interesting even comparing last year to this year, right? We're at this pivot point where we're building on the legacy of Trust and I T and knowledge and experience that we have. But we're now setting the foundation to be number one and data protection and data management for the next ten years. Introducing this new set of products were able to bring a customer's forward. We call it the path to power. So in addition to that, bring new customers into the family. We're looking for all those aspects of modern day to management, with simplicity, with multi cloud, with automation and with the new use cases where it's more than just back up. It's CCD are its analytics. It's testing toe. It's validation. So this is whole spectrum of things that we can expand into now that we have this new platform. It's really exciting. >> It is exciting. And yesterday the under Armour video was very cool, and one of the things that they set in there is that there they're leveraging data for brand reputation. I mean, they've got under Armour has incredible brand ambassadors Tom Brady, Steph Curry. But looking at it as not just a business ever. But this is actually tied to our brand reputation, did. It is so incredibly pivotal to the lifeblood of a business. It has to be protected. >> Yeah, and that's a big theme. And you probably something too. But, you know, in this day and time data is no longer something that maybe people in I'd worry about write It is now the lifeblood of most of our customers, corporations and at the same time list, like the threat of malware are very prevalent. And so things like what we've done with cyber recovery always were working with our customers to protect their data. In a survey we just did. With twenty two hundred I t professionals, twenty eight percent of them had had some data loss in the last twelve months. So the risk of data loss is real. And we take our responsibility very seriously to help our customers protect from that risk. >> So I like this message to any source. Any target, any s l a. I would I would had any workload and because on so talk about you're differentiation in the marketplace, that would be great, because it's hard sometimes, you know, squint through all the marketing. And so what makes you guys different specifically thinking >> about Delhi emcee Indiana production historically has its strength in dealing with complex work clothes at high scale, with high performance on having a wide coverage of work has been a strength and actually had very low cost, very efficient, right? So that string we sort of carry on into the future. And what we're adding on is I would say that the next degree off simplification and ease off ease off, install, upgrade use. Making those work was very, very simple, right? So I think that's another dimension. We are God. We're adding our dimension, what we call multi dimensional scale, which is both scale up and scale out the same time when you actually add more notes and more cubes, you are not only capacity, but he also improved performance, right? That's it, architecturally, a fundamentally different way in Harvey approach it. So I think that's an element of innovation, and I think on performance we're introducing our first all flash off Lions industry first, So we're super excited about that. And so I think it just helped our customers in terms of restore interactions store Do those work was a lot faster. Those are some other elements in which we continue innovating. >> That's great. Yeah, so you talk about the power protect X four hundred, which is your flesh. John Rose said something on stage. Beth, I want to ask you, Teo, sort of add some color. Hey, said this is not just secondary storage. It's protected. Managed infrastructure, >> huh? That's great face. >> What? What did he mean by that? And what should we take away? >> I mean, it shows how we're broadening the use cases that these products can help satisfy. And so much of what we're talking about Del Technologies is a simplified infrastructure across the board, not thinking about just point products, but giving the customer that experience of a seamless extendable infrastructure. So protected managed infrastructure means that your infrastructure, something you have, can confidence it's protected and that you also are not just dealing with all of these pieces and parts. But I can think of it has a managed whole. I think that that helps out and talk to John about that. But that's what I take away from what he's saying. >> If I can just add to that, I would say Like, you know, data management is sort of the perfect glue across the whole del technology infrastructure, but a server storage bm We're, you know, eighty, you know, infrastructure pivotal, right? Data management data productions are off, cuts across everything, and we can bring everything together. So >> I would like to add something to that if I make it. You know Beth on sure Art as well. Data protection Backup was always OK. We gotta back it up. Who's gonna? Okay, Bump bolted on. And what's happening is the lines are blurring. Primary storage, secondary storage. You're seeing back up in the e r. Use cases. You talked about analytics and, you know, so many new emerging. That's why it is so exciting. And so because those lines are blurring, you get more value out of the system. It goes beyond just insurance. And that means this could be a lot of money being made here >> if there is. And it is also a really important need, write one thing that we haven't touched on. But I also think it's really important is with our protect we're helping combine self service with centralized governance. So what I mean by that is, if you're a V a madman or Oracle Adnan or a sequel admin, you know, you could have control over protecting your data, but we pair that with a single, you know, governance model. So if I'm the person is responsible for my company's entire, you know, data set, I can still make sure that everything's happening is it should be. And there are no anomalies, so we're really making it as easy as possible, for the business is within our customers to protect and manage their data but not making it the Wild West. Because somebody in the end is accountable for saying I know where all the data is, and I know it's protected, so it's having both of those users. >> So as data protection has really elevated, the stay was saying to become its way beyond an insurance policy. This is absolutely table stakes because data has so much value and so much value that organisations haven't even been able to extract it right, how the conversation within the customer base changed. It's not just to the admin girl or guy anymore. Rightness is Are you saying this really leveled up Tio? Maybe a senior level C level challenge as our business imperative that the state of must be protected and readily accessible at any time. Who are you talking to? >> So answer quickly that I lied to you when we're talking to the eye to decision makers. So seo no, that level data protection strategy has become something that they have in their priority list, right? It's not really in any way what it was maybe five or ten years ago. Now it's something that there's cord of what they hold as their responsibilities, executives and and that's great. It's great to have those kind of conversations because it's strategic. >> Another conversation. Just an example from yesterday, while speaking with one of the chief architects at a major company, they're really talking about cyber security on How do you use Extend? You know what we offer into a full solution across their technology. Do address, you know, doesn't use case right. So I think it's expanding beyond just back up and protection to true protection off the data. Very most mission critical data is available and not just protected. They also want to talk about how can you recover that real quickly in very quick time, so that your operation, when you do have that cyber, if and when you have that attack So I think it's just expanding toe touch. A lot more customers, I would say Our people buying, buying decision makers across >> so that when I talk to people in division I sense a renewed energy. A renewed focus. I mean, GMC before Del. Tell'Em Steve always been really good. Taking engineering resource is to getting products out to the market. But But I I see again more focused effort here and one of the exam to keep pushing on. Is this notion of cloud model so beyond? Just okay, there's a target. How do we now get to that? You know, data protection is a service small. I know that you're working toward that. I know it's, you know, a lot of it's It's early days there, but you've got to be a leader in that, I presume. So. I want to keep watching that pushing that I won if you guys could comment on what coming >> on, both things that you said. First of all, there's absolutely a level of excitement and focus and confidence in what we're doing in the product groups. I'm really changing the way we're developing software so that we have a new customer value coming out every quarter. And they were having clarity between the top level strategies. White downs, what individual engineers are working on. So that's fun and excited because we're truly transforming the way we're developing Product says point one. And the second one, absolutely here, that theme throughout all of what we're talking about. You heard a nun day one, No, giving people that cloud that experience infrastructure has a service which certainly includes data management and data protection so they can consume it in a way that fit step business that scales with business That's automated, that doesn't require, you know, massive manual steps and is more what people expect today was a cloud like experience, even for them on from data centers. Clearly, that's where we're moving. And this one more point is you know, people really want automation they don't wanna have to think about. Did I remember to protect everything? They want the system to do that for them. So you'LL see more of that from us as well. You know how we helping them with machine learning? An A I an automation so they can have confidence that all of the assets are protected even if they haven't remember to do it all. >> I mean, I just add to it. I've bean at Delhi emcee for about a year. >> It >> has been a fantastic journey waiting. It's exciting. It's been awesome. Awesome experience. I totally see the >> focus. And I think that renewed focus the cloud like a model and the innovation. They all go hand in hand because the old waterfall model of okay, we're gonna develop properties shipment every year, eighteen months. Whatever it is that doesn't fly anymore. People want innovations, and now they want to push code every day. Right? So our baby, every quarter at least. >> Yeah. Yeah. Facing new energy to the engineers as well. >> So I mean, I understand that many of your team, if not your entire engineering team, has been trained in agile. Is that my getting it right? Is that right? >> Yeah, yeah, >> not just not just like internal train. You guys brought in outside people and really took him through some formal training. Right >> way have in multiple different kinds of training. And we have lots of communications inside to get people coaching. And it's not just a process book that we're following its really a different way of thinking about how you bring customer value in small increments, staying in a good known stay and making sure that we're maximizing our engineering capacity. >> That's big. And I wish we had more time cause that's cultural train. Yeah, yeah, that you guys are really driving. And we also didn't have time to touch on partners, but it can imagine there's a lot of excitement and your huge partner community about what you guys are doing This. Congratulations on all the announcement is gonna have to have you back because there's just so much more to dig into. But back Sherrod, Thank you for joining David me this afternoon on the you go. >> Thank you so much >> for our pleasure. For Dave Volonte and Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube live from Day three of Del Technologies, World twenty nineteen on the Cube. Thanks for watching

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies. And it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World here at the Sands Expo in Las Vegas. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my co-host Stu Miniman, we are joined by Lewie Newcomb he is the Vice President, Server Storage and HCI Engineering Dell EMC. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE >> Thank you. >> For the first time ever. >> For the first time, I'm excited. Very excited about it. >> Yes well we're happy to have you. So we're talking VxFlex and we have not talked a lot about VxFlex on the show, I now you had a segment earlier. Tell us about your news today. >> Okay, well the big news for the show this week is we've launched an appliance. So traditionally we do a rack level product with VxFlex. So we've launched an appliance, so basically, think half-rack without networking. And then we did some updates to our software that we can talk about. And we also still, and we've added some more platforms. So we added the 840 PowerEdge server. So all of our products are on PowerEdge servers. And the 840 with 4-socket, we now have a great platform for SAP HANA. >> So Lewie let's take it back a sec, because VxFlex, there are some new products, but a main piece of this, this was a rebranding of some of the other pieces in the CI and HCI family. So maybe those people that have a little history, if you can help put this into context as to which brands are gone and under this umbrella. >> Yeah, so I'll just start with the new brands. VxFlex is the brand, VxFlex Ready Nodes, VxFlex Appliance is the new product, VxFlex Integrated Rack. VxFlex OS and VxFlex Manager. So a lot of parts there. >> Simplicity. >> Okay. (laughs) >> The naming is very simple and it's easier to talk about. I think a big improvement over our previous brands. And then, I'll go into some of the details. So, I talked about the Appliance, think about new consumption model, little bit smaller chunk there. But we also updated the software, the OS, so the VxFlex OS we added compression in this release, it's VxFlex 3.0 is the revision, it's shipping today. We added compression and we changed the data layout so we actually have higher performance and small granularity and snapshots. So some storage features were added. We also have many new certifications. So I mentioned the SAP HANA, we also have Epic, both VDI and the database. We also have SAS Analytics has a great white paper talking about our product and the benefits of our product. And we're really a performant product. If you think about, it's a pure software SAN And we can also do HCI, we can also combine the software SAN with the HCI we call that two-layers, the way we refer to the software SAN. >> Alright, so this week there's a lot of discussion about VxRail, so maybe use that a touch point for people to understand. VxRail, joint integration between VMware and Dell. VMware Hypervisor, give us a little compare and contrast as to some of those pieces. >> Great question, the VxRail as you said, it's our, integrated in an entire VMware stack. And some great announcements, I love ACE, if you seen the ACE announcement. So the Flex though is a product that's out there because not all customers are in a VMware environment. We also support bare metal. >> Or even if they use VMware they're not 100% VMware. >> Not 100%, and many of our customers actually have both. For high performance databases they might pick Flex. For more general purpose VDI and things they might pick the Rail and so customers as we talk to 'em, they different needs and we have different products for those, so we give them that choice. >> Well, let's actually walk us through a little bit about the VxFlex customer and sort of, so this customer what are their needs and why is VxFlex the choice? >> And you've been doing software defined for a long time so I always see it this way, you start out with a customer that's transforming their business, they want to get into software defined, they want to prepare themselves for the future. Well that's where we start, we're software defined. And the next thing we look at is, do they need performance? Do need they need some one millisecond latency across you know, 50 nodes, 1000 nodes, we can do that. We're very high performance, so that's why I mentioned the databases. And the other things is, we just talked about is that choice they may not want to use just vSphere, they might want to use other hypervisors, so we support those hypervisors. And then the real interesting thing is that two-layer, because as you know with HCI we combine the application and the stored services all on one node. So in our product we can actually separate those, so you can scale storage and compute separately. And it's still all in one storage pool. So it's a very flexible product that fits that kind of customer's needs. >> Okay, simplicity is really one of the key words that we've heard in this whole trend there. It's interesting having had discussion from CI all the way through HCI, some of the software that allows me to manage it, really makes invisible some of those choices. You just said, well HCI was, I can have some choices between the computing storage, but usually they did go in blocks together versus scaling them separately. Can you talk a little bit about the management suite and what that means from a customer administrator and the infrastructure team as to how they look at this spectrum of offerings. >> Sure, so we have the VxFlex Manager, I mentioned that in the beginning, so that manager is starting to automate that management orchestration. So from deployment to serviceability to provisioning, we launched several new features in that, in this current release 3.2 release. So it, more granularity round the service of the drives and things like that. We'll continue to evolve that. You mentioned that you're hearing that, every customer I talked to this week, number one thing we talk about is more automation, more ease of use, so as they're going into software defined, they're all asking for the same thing and we're going to support that with the VxFlex Manager. >> Alright, great so talk a little bit about the application, you talk about high performance environment, one of the things we've been looking in this space especially is, what are some of the new areas, things like containerization, Kubernetes, is this platform that the customer builds ready for that environment and how do we span from kind of what I have and where I'm going. >> Yeah, so we just launched our Kubernetes plugin, the CSI plugin, so we have some customers already testing that beta and because we have bare metal, we can also support that in that native environment, So most customers they are still using that in a virtualization environment. But they're preparing for the future, they're looking at different options, so it gives them that flexibility if they want to go bare metal. >> So you're 15 years at Dell and you've really spent your career in storage and we're talking about the big customer... Customer list of what they want, they want ease of use, they want simplicity, they want speed. >> They want performance. >> They want performance, so what are the kinds of things that you're thinking about for the next year's? >> Yeah well next year, we're still building out some of the storage services. So later in the year we'll add some new storage services, like we just added compression, so our launch this week was compression and we'll add more and more storage services more data protection, more replication. We'll continue in that path, and more and more management. The management is going to be a key area focus for us. >> Right, can you take us inside some of those customer conversations, good excitement, 15,000 people here. I'm sure you've talked to a lot of customers, what are some of the key concerns that are raising to them and what's the feedback you're getting? >> A lot of the customers the reason they want automation is they want to manage their full environment, 'cause remember at the rack level we've integrated the switching. So they want a predictable outcome and when they have drift, when they want to do security updates, that's most of our conversations, they want us to do more and more automation around that. Compliance against the product itself and then when a security patch comes in. And by the way I'll mention the two-layer, another great advantage of two-layer, a lot of times, these security patches come in only on the compute side. So we can do a security patch on the compute side without disrupting the storage pool, so it's a big advantage so that's 90% of the conversations we're having. >> Yeah, maybe touch on one of the big concerns, you talk about, I want that cloud operating model. When I'm running in any of the public clouds, I don't have to think about what version I'm running. The old days of, oh I had to manage it to in the VCE days, it was the compatibility matrix and then the RCM documentation, how are we doing towards getting to that simple push button, you know I take care of it, securities patches come I don't have to worry about scrambling I've got that taken care of. >> That's nirvana, that's our north star. We're working on that and we're using the Flex Manager as that platform and more and more we're taking those requirements in the Flex Manager and we'll be rolling it out. Our goal is to have that one click upgrade right? That one button, our goal is to be able to do compliance and quick updates, and it's a journey. And it's the most complex part as you know, you mentioned, some older products, it's the most complex part of the solution, is keeping that compliance and that performance where you need it. >> So how do you manage that? I mean as you said it's a huge challenge that your company's facing and yet also all your clients are facing too. >> Well luckily we have a lot smart people. (laughs) and we have great customers. The nice thing you know, Dell's direct, the interaction we've had with customers this week, I mean they're designing with us, they're telling us what they need. And we're not a large large scale business in relative to a server business and using computing. So we have relationships with almost all of our customers. And we go and show them our roadmaps, we go get feedback from them, they help us define what they need and we follow our customers. >> Well it's really interesting, because we know that Dell's turning 35 very soon and middle age is the time where you start to get a little more set in your ways, a little older, a little creakier, but what you're describing is this real collaborative relationship with your customers and not sort of this my way or the highway kind of thing. >> I feel I work in a startup, we're agile, we're listening to our customers, we're doing the right things. We're not focused all just on our business, we're focused on our customer outcomes. We made a big ship this year on my product line of talking about the databases and the certifications and we're really trying to help our customers through those decisions without them having to make all those decisions themselves. >> Yeah, what about the consumption model, some of the other product lines we're talking to are going to manage their services as well as moving towards that OPEX model. How's that fit into the VxFlex? >> Yeah, we're not there yet, of course we're going to lead with our Dell Technologies portfolio, We have some great products in that portfolio. But we'll get there over time. Today, you saw the announcements on day one with VMware, Dell EMC and the cloud platforms. We'll continue to build infrastructure, we'll continue to stay in our lane, where we do really really well and the customers love us. But We'll eventually get to different consumption models. >> So tell us a little bit about this show for you. This is not your first rodeo here at Dell Technologies World. >> And I hope and you're seeing this, this feel like we're one big company now right? We've been three years in the making. And coming to Dell Tech this year, I feel like we're one. And Michael's key note was, the first customer I talked to, you know, everything Michael said, resonated so well with me and so it really feels that way. And just the vibe back there and in the solution expo, it's just, you know at level 10. >> Well right, so we're passed the Dell EMC integration point, but the big thing we've been talking about this week is, you know those seven logos up on the banner behind you there are acting like one. So VxRail designed together, sold together. Can you talk a little bit about where do some of the other pieces of the portfolio fit into place. >> Pivotal Cloud Foundry right? Almost all of us are parting with Pivotal Cloud Foundry and building that stack and offering that service to our customer, you know Secureworks RSA, we all need security right? We're all working there too. And even now, so I work in the PowerEdge team, you know, storage product, so we're working, we're taking PowerEdge and putting it everywhere. So all of our data protection products, RSA, our storage products, we're working PowerEdge everywhere and leveraging that. And the beauty about that is you saw the VxRail ACE announcement right? That's a platform, that's a analytics platform that now we can build on and designing PowerEdge. We can put requirements into PowerEdge to make that a much richer telemetry box and really start getting some analytics in that solve some problems, predictive analysis and things like that. So yeah, it's been fun, I've been on the tip of the spear of this, you know, coming from the storage side, and I'm starting to see it really really come together this year, here at this show. >> Alright, so want to give you the final word, VxFlex I know people, if they went through the expo hall they could see it, touch it and the like. For those that didn't make it to the show, what do you want the key takeaway for VxFlex? >> So we're pure software defined, we're very high performance, we're ideal for your databases, we're ideal for scale, we can scale up to 1000 nodes or higher. And we have many many customers doing that. We have running in the show this week, a database running at six nodes over a million IOPS, sub one millisecond latency. So... >> A good note to end on, (laughs) powerful. >> Bang yeah. (laughs) >> Lewie thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you, appreciate it, it's been fun. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Stu Miniman, we will have so much more of day three of theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World coming up in just a little bit. (techno music)

>> Live from Seattle, Washington, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and Cloud Native Con North America 2018. Brought to you by RedHat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Okay welcome back everyone we're here live in Seattle for KubeCon and Cloud Native Con. I'm John Furrier your host, Stu Miniman from Wikibon here. Next guests Anthony Lye, whose the senior vice president general manager of Cloud Data Services at NetApp, and Jonsi Stergesson, CTO and VP of Cloud Services. Great to have you guys on, great to see you again Anthony. >> As always thank you. >> So first I want to get out there we talked lots in the Kube lounge just to reset. The value parsons of NetApp have significantly been enhanced with the cloud. What is that value proposition? What have you guys seen the explosive headroom for value creation that you guys are enabling with NetApp and the cloud? >> You know what I think NetApp has done over now, probably five years, is really pushed itself to embrace the cloud. To recognize that the cloud is a very important part of everybody's IT infrastructure whether it's an extension of the existing IT infrastructure for things like DR or backup or whether it's the primary platform for legacy workloads or, as we're all here to do, to discuss the refactoring and rebuilding of applications around microservices. I think NetApp chose, unlike all of the traditional storage vendors, to see the cloud as an opportunity and I think it's helped the company and it's helped our customers to operate in what is, I think, is by default now, the end state for many companies is hybrid cloud. >> You guys also made some good moves early on with the cloud. We've documented certainly on SiliconANGLE and theCUBE early on. And then as flash comes in for performance, now you've got compute, storage and networking all being optimized in the cloud, creates app developers an environment where it's programmable infrastructure finally. I mean dev ops is happening, this is where services and notion of compute has gone from standing something up in seconds on the cloud to with functions milliseconds. This is changing the dynamic of applications but you've still got to store the data. Talk about, Jonsi, the impact of the services in piece to the developer, storage, services, provisioning, all that and it covers. >> We are taking, I mean all of our services that are running in all the hyperskills in Google and Azure and AWS and more and even on premise. Our view is our role is always to find the best home for any workload at any given time. Even though it's in public cloud or on premise. However storage has always been sort of left aside, it's always been living in this propietary chunk that is hard to move and the weight of the data is actually quite heavy. So we actually want to use Kubernetes and microservices and resistant volume claims by taking that data and making that very easily migratable replicated between locations, between hyperscalers and sort of adopt a true multi cloud strategy. With data with it not only moving those workloads or applications but the data is key, data is key. >> Sometimes, you know, you want to move the data to a compute and sometimes you want to move compute to the data. >> And that's been validated by Amazon's RDS announcement on VMware, Amazon announced outposting on premises, and the number one thing was latency, work was not yet moving. This is exactly to what you guys have been doing and implementing, today, this is like real product. >> I think the reality of the world is, you know, while there is a ton of innovation that exists in public cloud there are well documented use cases that struggle with a cloud only environment. I think NetApp has chosen to make each one of those three potential persistent stores equal to one another. So whether that's in a traditional on premise and upgrading on premise environments to get better price performance characteristics, embracing the public cloud or combining public and private cloud. >> While it's not trivial NetApp, at it's core, always was software so moving it from a hardware appliance, I mean, back in the day Network Appliance was the original name of the company to a software defined solution to being multi-cloud, you can kind of see that genesis where it can go. A lot of times the tougher part is from the customer standpoint. You know, the traditional person that bought and managed this was a storage administrator and getting them to understand cloud native applications and dev ops and all those things, those are pretty challenging moves so how much of it is education? How much of it is new buying centers inside the company or new clients, help us walk through that. >> Yeah I would make two points in maybe answering to you. So I think NetApp's history, actually 25 years ago, NetApp started off as selling into the developers who were running SUN workstations, who wanted shared everything and NetApp actually you know went around IT and put those appliances into the developers. We built a SaaN business, a very successful SaaN business, with the IT people. Now you're absolutely right, the people around here fall into the, sort of, the modern day dev ops characters. What Google calls the SREs the Site Reliability Engineers. And they're a new breed, they're young, they're doing more and more CICD. Storage is an integral part of what they do but maybe not a primary part. They expect storage to work. We are really lucky you know, a little company called Microsoft and another little company called Google sell our stuff so we get introduced into all of those cloud first, cloud only sort of use cases. Not just of refactoring of primary but building. So we're actually, in many cases now, very relevant to those people but we've been fortunate enough to leverage the big public clouds together. >> So you have a relationship with AWS, Google and Microsoft, Microsoft and Google, which you've just mentioned. You mentioned SRE, Site Reliability Engineer, this is a new persona that's clearly emerging and it has a focus around operations, now IT operations has been around for a long time, dev is changing too but this is, if they sell your stuff, their customers need to operate at scale. This is a big point, can you elaborate on the importance of this and what you guys are doing specifically to help that. >> So the Site Reliability Engineer, he is not doing operations. He is actually in charge of running the workload or the development or the application or the product that comes from development. They have to abide by specific rules that are actually set by the SRE. And to your point, because you were talking about different selling motions and not selling into the storage admin or not selling to traditional IT. This is actually what has actually been really surprising and showcases the power of Kubernetes and how widely adopted it has been, both on premise and in the public cloud because customers are actually coming to us and saying, "Hey we had no idea NetApp was actually "doing all of this in the public cloud. "We had no idea that you had your own Kubernetes services "that actually help solve one of the biggest problems "which is persistent volume claims and application of data." So it's actually coming, and you sort of see how important CNCF is, because they're actually educating the market and educating the enterprise space just as well as the new up and coming development team like I've traditionally come from. So I'm actually seeing that it's easier than I would have sort of thought in the beginning. So they're actually becoming more educated about microservices, more educated about how to run their, actually everybody almost in any company that I go into now, they have the SRE playbook somewhere in their meeting room somewhere and everybody sort of getting educated on how they need to, sort of, elevate themselves from being traditional system administrators into that SRE or dev op role. >> And it's also a cultural thing too, they have to develop, not just the playbook, but have some experience in economies of scale, managing it, and certainly it's a tail wind for you guys, storage because, again, it's also a lot of coating involved they need a pool of resources, storage being one of them. But the other thing that's interesting, those are single clouds, Amazon, Google, multi cloud is really where the action is, right? So multi cloud to me is just, to me, a modern version of multi vendor, which basically is about choice. Choice is critical, but having choice around the app, it becomes the value creator. So if you guys can scale with the app development environments that seems to be a sweet spot. How are you guys talking about that particular point because this becomes an under the covers, a new kind of operations, a new kind of scale, pushing code, not just you know stacking interacting boxes but, like, really making things, patching security things or could have been head of security things so doing things in a really really automated way. >> Yeah, I mean, I think the one thing I'm most proud of at my time at NetApp and what the team does and what the team continues to do is we took a very, very, I think, deliberate perspective that we would deliver storage, but we would do it in a very unique way. That my background was from Saas, I spent my entire career building applications, and when you build an application, you run the application, there is nothing you give the customer and say, "Here, administer it." When you look at a lot of the infrastructure services, they make the customer do a lot of work. So what we did at NetApp was we decided that we ourselves would almost create like an always available protocol that people could just ask for it and it would be there. There was no concept of setting it up or patching it or upgrading it. And that's really I think we have set a bar now on the public clouds that, I think, even the public clouds themselves have not done, and giving those developers that I asked for a storage through an API and all I need to do is ask for capacity and throughput. Nothing else, that's something to a developer they're like, "So now I don't even have to ask "anybody with storage skills. "I can tell my application to ask for it's own storage." >> It's interesting you're living in a new world where you need the scale of a system but the functionality of like an app server. I feel like we're living in that app server days where that middle ground and app development was the key focus, you've got to have both now. You need scalable systems but really application performance. >> And then you add an additional layer because now everybody wants to be able to use the same deployment script, the same configuration management system, Terraform, whatever they're actually using to deploy it on premise or in a public cloud but it needs to be done in a unified manner. This is why it's so important to be upstream compatible and there's a lot of companies out there that are actually destroying that model and not following the true cloud concept. >> Yes give them a slap on the wrist, get in line, fix it! >> If you are going to play in this space with the CNCF and with Kubenetes, you better play by the rules and do the open standards. And so you're actually compatible no matter where your workload resides. >> We've been monitoring how storage is maturing in this whole cloud native Kubenetes ecosystem here. A year ago there were a lot of backroom arguments over what were the right architectures, a few sub projects working through here, it actually blew me away in the keynote this morning to hear that 40% of all applications that are deployed in Kubernetes are stateful. So where are we? What's working? What's good for customers? And what do we still need to work on to kind of solidify the storage data piece of this? >> I think it's interesting, 'cause I think we, sort of, ourselves now consider NetApp to be a data company. Storage is an enabler but what's interesting, everyone talks about their Saas strategy, their PaaS strategy their IaaS strategies. I always ask people, "What's your data strategy?" and that's something I think the CNCF Kubernetes, themselves, recognize that they've done a lot of really great things for compute around the microservices themselves but the storage piece has always been something of a challenge. And we said, about solving that problem, we have an open source project called Trident, that essentially enables people to make persistent volume claims and if the container dies, they can essentially start a new container and pick up the storage exactly where they left off. So we really believe that stateful is an ever increasing percentage of the overall application model. Databases are important things, people need them. >> I would agree with that and that's developing too, it's early on. All right so I want to ask you guys a question, kind of outside the box. Multi cloud certainly is part of a hybrid, what they call a hybrid today, it's really a choice, multi cloud will be a future reality, no matter what anyone says, I believe that. How is multi cloud changing IT investments? Business investments, technical investments or both, what's your guys thoughts on how multi cloud is driving and changing IT investments? >> Well I actually think it offers you the opportunity to have like placement policy algorithms that fit your workload at any given time. For example, if this particular application is latency sensitive, and I created an application that all of a sudden became really popular in Mexico, then I should be able to see which one of the hyperscalers actually has a presence in Mexico City, deploy it there. If I'm under utilizing my private cloud and I have a lot of space on it and there is no specific requirements, it gives you that flexibility to, like I said, always find the best home for your workload at any given time. >> Dynamic policy based stuff? >> Yeah, precisely. And it allows you also, I mean, you can choose to do it whether its based on workload requirements or you can start doing it in a least cost effective route, I mean least cost routing. So it actually impacts both from a technical and a business sense in my opinion. >> I think you know you cannot help but get excited every day with what one cloud delivers over another cloud, and we're seeing something not unlike the arms race, you know, Google does this, then Amazon does this, then Microsoft does this. As developers we're very keen to take advantage of all these capabilities and we want to, in many cases, let the application itself make the decision. >> So yeah Amazons got there, everyone's catching up. Competitions good. All right, final question. Predictions for multi cloud in 2019. What's going to happen? Is there going to be a loud bang? Is there going to be a crash? Is it going to be fruit on the trees? What's the state of the multi cloud predictions for 2019? >> Well I actually believe it's going to become a standard. Nobody should be locked into any region or any one provider, I don't even care if it's on premise or NetOps specific, you should be able to... I mean, I think it's just going to become standard. Everybody has to have a multi cloud strategy and you can see that, like the IDC report that 86% of Fortune 500 companies are adopting multi cloud. And I think I'm actually quite fed up of this hyper cloud stuff because, in my opinion, on premise is just the fourth or the fifth hyperscaler and should be treated as such. So if you actually have that true cloud concept, you should be able to deploy that using the same script, the same APIs to deploy it everywhere. >> As I said in theCube the data center and non print, they're just an edge, a big edge. If it's an operating mall? >> My prediction? Your prediction. >> 2019 is the year of Istio. I think we've become enamored with Kubernetes, I think what Istio brings significantly advances Kubernetes, and we barely scratched the surface, I think, with the service mesh and all of the enhancements and all the contributions that will go into that. I think, you know, that 2019 will probably see as many vendors here next year with Istio credentials and STO capabilities as we see today with Kubernetes. >> Anthony, Jonsi, thanks for coming on, great insights, smart commentary, appreciate it. We should get in the studio and dig into this a little bit deeper. Really a great example of an incumbent, large company, NetApp, really getting a tailwind from the cloud, good smart bets you guys made, programmable infrastructure, dynamic policy routing, all kinds of under the covers goodness from smart cloud deployments. This is where software drives the data. >> Yep data is the new oil, that's what they say right? If you don't have a data set you're not very competitive. >> Thanks for coming on I appreciate it. More Kube coverage here, getting all the breakdown here, the impact of cloud computing at scale, the role of data software, all happening here at the CNCF. This is the KubeCon, I'm John Furrier and Stu Miniman, thanks for watching. More live coverage after this short break.

>> Announcer: From Chicago, it's theCUBE. Covering Veritas Vision Solution Day 2018. Brought to you by Veritas. >> Welcome back to Chicago, everybody. We're here covering the Veritas Solution Days. Veritas used to have a big tent event last year. This year they're going out to, I think, seven cities around the globe. Probably touching more people than they would've with the single event, but they're road warriors, and we're here with them. theCUBE is the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante, Roger Dombrowski is here. He's a data protection specialist at dcVAST, one of Veritas' big solution partners based here in Chicago. Roger, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me, Dave. >> You're very welcome. So, data protection specialist, so you're into it. Data protection is changing quite dramatically. There's cloud, there's the edge... We just talked to Jyothi about AI, and so lots is changing. From your prospective, how are customers responding to those change? What are some of the key drivers? >> A lot of the key drivers... You used to be able to differentiate with backups and things like that. Now it's table stakes, it's an insurance policy. And that's kind of the old classic way of looking at it, but I think with today what we're finding, and I think Veritas is doing such a great job of, is mining value out of stuff that's even been around a while. So while the workloads have changed, our best practices haven't changed, our strategies haven't changed. It's where things are going, but it's also mining that metadata to get more value out of the backups than to just be a insurance policy. >> So I mean one of the obvious things is, I've talked about, is DR, but DR is still insurance. It's just more insurance and maybe you're killing two birds with one stone, but when you talk about mining data and analytics, and getting more out of the metadata, give us some other examples of how customers are exploiting and leveraging that investment in what used to be just backup pure insurance. >> Yeah, and in fact it's kind of interesting 'cause Info Map's been out for a little while, and I think we've been going around to the customer base with a slide stack, maybe a couple of slides, and really underselling the value. And what I've had a great opportunity to do with a couple of customers here very recently, is get into some deep use cases, and it's been an eye opening experience. And what's so amazing is the date we're and the information we're gathering has been in their backups for years, right? It's like the data has been there. It's been on tap, we're tapping that with Info Map. Finding stale data, ransomware, age data, all kinds of better ways to tier. You know some of the discussions were around cloud. And hey do you really want put cat videos in the cloud? Well, we can find those things with the backups. And we've been looking a that data for years. We're finally now pulling the value out of that data. >> And one of those speakers earlier today talked about, he took us all the way back to the federal rules of civil procedure, and bringing together IT and legal. So those discussions now with GDPR, et cetera, coming back to the fore. And it's important you don't want data that could be a legal risk hanging around. Everybody says, oh big data, keep all the data. And General Council's go I don't want to keep all the data. So the backup corpus is a way you're saying to investigate that and reduce risks, and also potentially identify diamonds in the rough. That you can-- >> Absolutely. >> You can mine. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Let's talk about. I want to ask you about, there was a little company called Network Appliance, I think they were founded back in the '80s, they changed their name in the 2000s to NetApp, got out of that appliance, but appliances are still strong in the marketplace. Everybody's talking about software-defined. I think even Veritas uses it as part of its description of who they are and yet they continue to announce appliances as do others. Why appliances, from your practitioner perspective, what's going on there? >> Well, actually there's a customer whose actually here at the even today, and one of the things that really sold them on that whole form factor was the larger the company gets the more siloed, different aspects of business are. If you know if you wanted to make a change or implement something, you'd have the network team, you'd have change control, you'd have the OS team, the application teams. The appliance form factor's allowing the backup admins to wrangle in a lot of that crazy, hey, I've got to have 20 groups involved in something. Purpose built and performance tuned. I mean see it all the time. Customers, they still look at us and go, well, I think I can do it cheaper, and I've seen them try to do it, and maybe they'll save a few bucks, but the soft cost in terms of headaches, and problems, and tuning, and just limitations of building your own versus the appliance form factor. >> It's still going to run on hardware? So you're saying let the vendor do the integration and that's sort of the appeal of the appliance. There are use cases for PureSoftware based solutions, but if you just want to set it and (laughs) forget it. >> Roger: It really is that yeah. >> The appliance comes to play. What are some of the other big things and trends that you see, but let's talk cloud. You know the whole, I've often said renting is always more expensive than owning. You don't necessarily want, if you want to rent a car for a day, well go for it but if you want to drive at 100,000 miles, it probably make sense to buy it or even lease it. We heard today about cloud repatriation, I mean that's certainly a narrative that a lot of the on-prem guys want to talk about. What are you seeing in the marketplace? >> I'm seeing, I mean even before. I mean, we'll go back four or five years. Everyone's asking me, Roger, I want to get off of tape. Let's go to the cloud. What's been so interesting is to do those calculations, and I think that some people fly over that 100 miles an hour, and Veritas was one of the first ones to actually preserve deduplication all the way through the process. So it really changed, I call it that cost versus rent, or own versus rent ratio where depending on how long you're keeping data, how well the data dedupes, things like that, that's going to affect your cost model. And that's really, in my role at dcVAST, that's a big part of what I do, is to take the feature sets that Veritas brings to the table and apply them, and say, hey, does this make sense to put this in the cloud? Should this be on prem? And the great thing again is Veritas isn't. This isn't your dad's backup anymore. I mean the Access Appliance, the Flex Appliance, some of these things we're bringing to the table, Info Map, these other tools, we're not just doing backups, we're doing ancillary things to all that. >> Just geeking it out a little bit. You just talking about dedupe through the whole process. You mean without having to rehydrate the data. >> Roger: Exactly, exactly. >> Which is just a time consuming and complicated process. >> Roger: Absolutely. >> That's a technology they're pretty proud of, they talk about it a lot. >> Very, very, very much so. And I mean, if you look it, we've always been able to do it but it's the cost, right? If I have to virtualize an appliance in the cloud, it's a very expensive proposition, but if I can dedupe and all I'm doing is storing small fragments in a cheap storage target in the cloud, that's all better for the economics for the customer. >> All right, Roger, I'll give you the last word. Takeaways from today, and any other thoughts? >> Oh, I loved hearing about the telemetry. There's some new features coming in. I've heard some of this material before, but again, to hear the different perspectives, customers talking about the technology and where we're going, I'm glad we got to go and participate. >> All right Roger Dombrowski. Thanks very much for sharing your perspective. >> Thanks a lot, Dave. >> Great to see you. >> Take care. >> All right, keep it right there everybody, theCUBE. We'll be back at Veritas Vision in Chicago right after this short break, I'm Dave Vellante. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Nashville, Tennessee, it's theCUBE, covering Commvault GO, 2018. Brought to you by, Commvault. >> Welcome back to Nashville, Tennessee, this is Commvault Go and you're watching theCUBE, I'm Stu Miniman, joined by my co-host, Keith Townsend And we're going to get a little cloudy. Happy to welcome to the program, Sabina Joseph, who's the Global Segment Director with Amazon Web Services, welcome back to the program. >> Thank you very much for having us here, >> Miniman: And also welcome to the program, first time, Jeanna James, who's the Worldwide Cloud Alliances Leader with Commvault, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you for having us. >> Alright, so, we're looking at the ecosystem that Commvaults have, Sabina, why don't you give us a little bit on the history, and what's going on, between Amazon, and Commvault. >> I think I'm going to have Jeanna kind of kick that off, and then we will >> sure! Yeah! >> Add some comments! >> I'll take that, so we started our relationship over five years ago, and it's been a strong and growing relationship since that time. We started off with S3 integration, and we write natively to Amazon S3, and now our integration points have just become deeper and wider, so, S3, S3IA, Glacier, Snowball, we have full support across the Amazon services, and, about three years ago, Amazon started the storage Competency Program, and Commvault is a storage Competency Partner, and so with that launch, we started to do more on the go to market side, so we started off with that integration, and the technology side, and now today are expanding more on the go to market, and Sabina you want to talk a a little bit about that? >> Absolutely, thank you, Jeanna. Thank you for that question. So our collaboration indeed started five years ago, and Commvault has always embraced our best practices around technology and go to market. They've always focused on getting the technical integrations with our services right, prior to engaging on go to market and sales initiatives. They have launched a joint practices website on their webpages, which talks about our collaboration, our solutions, and also jointly validated reference architectures. We engaged early on in the channel. In addition, when AWS is about to launch services and new features, we engage Commvault's technical team early on, and wherever possible, Commvault has always participated in our beta launches. This is actually one of the reasons why Commvault has a wide integration across Amazon S3, S3IA, Glacier, Glacier Vault Lock, and different versions of Snowball. >> Yeah, so, Sabina, those of us that watch the industry, watching this storage segment, and how AWS relates to it has been one of the most fascinating stories there. At this conference, we're really enjoying getting to talk to some of the customers, we know that Amazon's always listening very much to the customers, what can you tell us about what you're hearing from the customers, and how is that impacting the focus of what you're doing together? >> Well, as you know, AWS is very focused on the customer, and Commvault has always embraced this vision, making sure to launch solutions that mutually delight our customers. Every year, our technical and our executive teams meet, to set the initiatives for the year, both on the business and the technical front. This is on of the reasons why solutions such as data disaster recovery, healthcare data protection solutions, and AIML solutions, really speak to Commvault's commitment to the Cloud, and we are also very open with each other on recommendations. They have given us recommendations on our services, and we have done the same with Commvault, and we very much welcome these suggestions. All of this has laid a very strong foundation for our collaboration, and we look forward, and we will expect to see continued strong growth in the coming years. >> So, data, we've heard it said time and time again, the new currency, super important, Amazon obviously a leader in Cloud storage, talk to us about what's happening around data protection, data management, at AWS Cloud. >> Well, when we talk to our customers, one of the very first workloads, there in fact moving into the Cloud is backup of data, and with this cloud-first initiative in mind, they are embracing cloud-based solutions around data protection and data management. As you might be aware, the amount of data that customers are needing to protect is growing two-fold every two years, and challenges around ransomware means that traditional industries, and heavily regulated industries, like financial services, healthcare, are moving data into the Cloud because of our collaboration for over five years, Commvault has a wide array of solutions to address these customer needs available on AWS globally. >> Yes, and just to add to that, with AWS over the last two years, we've seen 100% growth year over year, and we continue to expect additional growth >> absolutely >> with AWS and our customer base, and typically, what we see, is customers will start with backup and recovery and sending backup data into the could, and then once they get that data into the Cloud they start to use it. Let's test disaster recovery incident, and see if it works? Wow, it worked, great! Once it works, then they start moving more clothes into the Cloud, and protecting the data across regions, and all over the world, and so that's one of the great benefits that we have with Amazon and Commvault together. >> Congrats on the progress that you've been making, sounds like you've got some good proof points. As this is maturing, what feedback are you getting from customers, what are they asking you to do, to expand this partnership even further? >> Thank you for that question, as Jeanna knows, customers are always looking for a wide integration of Commvault solutions across our services. They want to use the rich features that Commvault has on premises, in the hybrid architecture model, and also for workloads that are running completely on AWS, and once this data moves into the Cloud they want to do more with this data. This is actually one of the reasons why we are working together, to have Commvault integrate across our machine learning services, like transcribe, translate, which means that customers can extract more value from this data, improve their time to market, and potentially even create net new solutions using this data. >> So from a Commvault perspective, we see, just like Sabina said, more and customers going through digital transformations, and when they go through those digital transformations, they've been sold on things like, we want to lower cost, and we want to have more agility with our business, and one of our big customers that's here today, Dow Jones, talks about that story, where they've gotten rid of a lot of their data centers, moved a lot of their infrastructure into the Cloud and so they've been able to become more agile as a business because of moving to the Cloud with Commvault and AWS, so, we hope that you'll take some time and hear some of the customers' stories out there, while you're here. >> Yeah, we'll listen to customers, and as customers are making that digital business transformation, what have you been hearing, or what are some of the trends you're seeing, and what are customers thinking about, and specifically in this collaboration, what are you guys thinking about when it comes to digital transformation and the impact on data protection? >> You want to start with that? So, again, lowering cost, scalability, global infrastructure, those are the big things for the digital transformation that we see customers wanting to embrace, and with Commvault, one of the big differentiators, I think, for the enterprise customers out there who are global, is they typically do have both an on-prem environment as well as an in Cloud environment, and even if they have an all in strategy, there is time between that, moving all into the Cloud where they need to be able to cover both the on-prem and in the Cloud workloads, and so Commvault really brings that together, we also work together with our HyperScale Appliance for those customers who want to have on-prem and in the Cloud so overall, it's simplicity, the ability to manage the data, wherever it needs to be, that's where Commvault and AWS really do well and shine. >> Alright, so, for people that are at this show, what flavor are they getting of AWS, or their sessions, or their labs, what's that kind of Cloud experience at this show? >> Well, we have a number of sessions that we are jointly presenting together at, focus around AIML, future SAAS solutions, and also healthcare data protection solutions. And in fact, at this show, we are launching over 2100 EC2 instances, every day at this show, through the hundreds of labs that Commvault has running. For customers and partners, you can come and try out the Commvault solutions on AWS for free at these labs, and for those of you listening out there, we are giving away two Alexas at each of our sessions. >> Wow. So, I think, still we're about eight weeks out, right, from the big show? >> Oh, my team's deep in planning already, I mean, this is a great show, but Amazon is one of the biggest shows that we do every year. What should we expect to see, this year? >> Well as you said, our team is preparing very hard, to make sure that we are providing value to the customers, and partners, attending re:INVENT, and there will be a number of announcements, we're looking forward to having our advanced technology partner and our storage competency partner, Commvault, at re:INVENT again this year. >> And we're excited to be there, so I hope that everybody who's here with us today, will join us at re:INVENT in November, and it's sure to be a great show. >> Alright, yeah, be sure to join theCUBE and over 50,000 of your closest friends >> (laughs) >> in the Cloud in Las Vegas the week right after Thanksgiving, if you haven't already, register quickly, because it will sell out, >> Townsend: That's right >> get your hotel, because they will sell out, what I'm saying is, it's a big show, so, we're excited to be there, for Keith Townsend, I'm Stu Miniman, we'll be be back here with more coverage, from Commvault GO in Nashville, Tennessee, thanks for watching theCUBE. >> Jeanna: Alright. 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(intense orchestral music) >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're having a CUBE Conversation in our Palo Alto studios, getting a short little break between the madness of the conference season, which is fully upon us, and we're excited to have a long time industry veteran Brian Pawlowski, the CTO of DriveScale, joining us to talk about some of the crazy developments that continue to happen in this in this world that just advances, advances. Brian, great to see you. >> Good morning, Jeff, it's great to be here, I'm a bit, still trying to get used to the timezone after a long, long trip in Europe, but I'm glad to be here, I'm glad we finally were able to schedule this. >> Yes, it's never easy, (laughs) one of the secrets of our business is everyone is actually all together at conferences, it's hard to get 'em together when when there's not that catalyst of a conference to bring everybody together. So give us the 101 on DriveScale. >> So, DriveScale. Let me start with, what is composable infrastructure? DriveScale provides product for orchestrating disaggregated components on a high-performance fabric to allow you to spin up essentially your own private cloud, your own clusters for these modern applications, scale out applications. And I just said a bunch of gobble-dee-gook, what does that mean? The DriveScale software is essentially an orchestration package that provides the ability to take compute nodes and storage nodes on high-performance fabric and securely form multi-tenant architectures, much like you would in a cloud. When we think of application deployment, we think of a hundred nodes or 500 nodes. The applications we're looking at are things that our people are using for big data, machine learning, or AI, or, or these scale out databases. Things like Vertica, Aerospike, is important, DRAM, ESES, dBase database, and, this is an alternative to the standard way of deploying applications in a very static nature onto fixed physical resources, or into network storage coming from the likes of Network Appliance, sorry NetApp, and Dell EMC. It's the modern applications we're after, the big data applications for analytics. >> Right. So it's software that basically manages the orchestration of hardware, I mean of compute, store, and networks you can deploy big data analytics applications? >> Yes. >> Ah, at scale. >> It's absolutely focused on the orchestration part. The typical way applications that we're in pursuit of right now are deployed is on 500 physical bare metal nodes from, pick your vendor, of compute and storage that is all bundled together and then laid out into physical deployment on network. What we do is just that you essentially disaggregate, separate compute, pure compute, no disks at all, storage into another layer, have the fabric, and we inventory it all and, much like vCenter for virtualization, for doing software deployment of applications, we do software deployment of scale out applications and a scale out cluster, so. >> Right. So you talked about using industry standard servers, industry standard storage, does the system accommodate different types of compute and CPUs, different types of storage? Whether it's high performance disks, or it's Flash, how does it accommodate those things? And if I'm trying to set up my big stack of hardware to then deploy your software to get it configured, what're some of the things I should be thinkin' about? >> That's actually, a great question, I'm going to try to hit three points. (clears throat) Absolutely. In fact, a core part of our orchestration layer is to essentially generalize the compute and storage components and the networking components of your data center, and do rule-based, constraint-based selection when creating a cluster. From your perspective when creating a cluster (coughs) you say "I want a hundred nodes, and I'm going to run this application on it, and I need that this environment for the application." And this application is running on local, it thinks it's running local, bare metal, so. You say "A hundred nodes, eight cores each minimum, and I want 64 gig of memory minimum." It'll go out and look at the inventory and do a best match of the components there. You could have different products out there, we are compute agnostic, storage agnostic, you could have mix and match, we will basically do a best fit match of all of your available resources and then propose to you in a couple seconds back with the cluster you want, and then you just hit go, and it forms a cluster in a couple seconds. >> A virtual cluster within that inventory of assets that I-- >> A virtual cluster that-- Yes, out of the inventory of assets, except from the perspective of the application it looks like a physical cluster. This is the critical part of what we do, is that, somebody told me "It's like we have an extension cord between the storage and the compute nodes." They used this analogy yesterday and I said I was going to reuse it, so if they listen to this: Hey, I stole your analogy! We basically provide a long extension cord to the direct-to-test storage, except we've separated out the storage from the compute. What's really cool about that, it was the second point of what you said is that you can mix and match. The mix and match occurs because one of the things your doing with your compute and storage is refreshing your compute and storage at three to five year cycles, separately. When you have the old style model of combining compute and storage in what I'd call a captured dazz scenario. You are forced to do refreshes of both compute and persistent storage at the same time, it just becomes, it's a unmanageable position to be in, and separating out the components provides you a lot of flexibility from mixing and matching different types of components, doing rolling upgrades of the compute separate from the storage, and then also having different storage tiers that you can combine SSD storage, the biggest tiers today are SSD storage and spinning disk storage, being able to either provide spinning disk, SSDs, solid-state storage, or a mixture of both for a hybrid deployment for an application without having to worry about a purchase time having to configure your box that way, we just basically do it on the fly. >> Right. So, and then obviously I can run multiple applications against that big stack of assets, and it's going to go ahead and parse the pieces out that I need for each application. >> We didn't even practice this beforehand, that was a great one too! (laughs) Key part of this is actually providing secure multi-tenant environment is the phrase I use, because it's a common phrase. Our target customer is running multiple applications, 2010, when somebody was deploying big data, they were deploying Hadoop. Quickly, (snaps) think, what were the other things then? Nothing. It was Hadoop. Today it's 10 applications, all scale out, all having different requirements for the reference architecture for the amount of compute storage. So, our orchestration layer basically allows you to provision separate virtual physical clusters in a secure, multi-tenant way, cryptographically secure, and you could encrypt the data too if you wanted you could turn on encryption to get over the wire with that data at rest encryption, think GDPR and stuff like that. But, the different clusters cannot interfere with each other's workloads, and because you're on a fully switched internet fabric, they don't interfere with performance either. But that secure multi-tenant part is critical for the orchestration and management of multiple scale out clusters. >> So then, (light laugh) so in theory, if I'm doing this well, I can continually add capacity, I can upgrade my drives to SSDs, I can put in new CPUs as new great things come out into my big cloud, not my cloud, but my big bucket of resources, and then using your software continue to deploy those against applications as is most appropriate? >> Could we switch seats? (both laugh) Let me ask the questions. (laughing) No, because it's-- >> It sounds great, I just keep adding capacity, and then it redeploys based on the optimum, right? >> That's a great summary because the thing that we're-- the basic problem we're trying to solve is that... This is like the lesson from VMware, right? One lesson from VMware was, first it was, we had unused CPU resources, let's get those unused CPU cycles back. No CPU cycle shall go unused! Right? >> I thought that they needed to keep 50% overhead, just to make sure they didn't bump against the roof. But that's a different conversation. >> That's a little detail, (both laugh) that's a little detail. But anyway. The secondary effect was way more important. Once people decoupled their applications from physical purchase decisions and rolling out physical hardware, they stopped caring about any critical piece of hardware, they then found that the simplified management, the one button push software application deployment, was a critical enabler for business operations and business agility. So, we're trying to do what VMware did for that kind of captured legacy application deployments, we're trying to do that for essentially what has been historically, bare metal, big data application deployment, where people were... Seriously in 2012, 2010, 2012, after virtualization took over the data center, and the IT manager had his cup of coffee and he's layin' back goin' "Man, this is great, I have nothing else to worry about." Then there's a (knocks) and the guy comes in his office, or his cube, and goes "Whaddya want?!" and he goes "Well, I'd like you to deploy 500 bare metal nodes to run this thing called Hadoop." and he goes "Well, I'll just give you 500 virtualized instances." a he goes "Nope, not good enough! I want to start going back to bare metal." And sense then it's gotten worse. So what we're trying to do is restore the balance in the universe, and apply for the scale out clusters what virtualization did for the legacy applications. Does that make a little bit of sense? >> Yeah! And is it heading towards the other direction ride is towards the atomic, right? So if you're trying to break the units of compute and store down to the base, so you've got a unified baseline that you can apply more volume than maybe a particular feature set, in a particular CPU, or a particular, characteristic of a particular type of a storage? >> Right. >> This way you're doing in software, and leveraging a whole bunch of it to satisfy, as you said kind of the meets min for that particular application. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think, kind of critical about the timing of all this is that virtualization drove, very much, a model of commoditization of CPUs, once VMware hit there, people weren't deploying applications on particular platforms, they were deploying applications on a virtualized hardware model, and that was how applications were always thought about from then on. From a lot of these scale out applications, not a lot of them, all of them, are designed to be hardware agnostic. They want to run on bare metal 'cause they're designed to run, when you play a bare metal application for a scale out, Apache Spark, it uses all of the CPU on the machine, you don't need virtualization because it will use all the CPU, it will use all the bandwidth and the disks underneath it. What we're doing is separating it out to provide lifecycle management between the two of them, but also allow you to change the configurations dynamically over time. But, this word of atomic kinda's a-- the disaggregation part is the first step for composability. You want to break it out, and I'll go here and say that the enterprise storage vendors got it right at one point, I mean, they did something good. When they broke out captured storage to the network and provided a separation of compute and storage, before virtualization, that was a step towards a gaining controlled in a sane management approach to what are essentially very different technologies evolving at very different speeds. And then your comment about "So what if you want to basically replace spinning disks with SSDs?" That's easily done in a composable infrastructure because it's a virtual function, you're just using software, software-defined data center, you're using software, except for the set of applications that just slip past what was being done in the virtualized infrastructure, and the network storage infrastructure. >> Right. And this really supports kind of the trend that we see, which is the new age, which is "No, don't tell me what infrastructure I have, and then I'll build an app and try and make it fit." It's really app first, and the infrastructure has to support the app, and I don't really care as a developer and as a competitive business trying to get apps to satisfy my marketplace, the infrastructure, I'm just now assuming, is going to support whatever I build. This is how you enable that. >> Right. And very importantly, the people that are writing all of these apps, the tons of low apps, Apache-- by the way, there's so many Apache things, Apache Kafka, (laughing) Apache Spark, the Hadoops of the world, the NoSQL databases, >> Flinks, and Oracle, >> Cassandra, Vertica, things that we consider-- >> MongoDB, you got 'em all. MongoDB, right. Let's just keep rolling these things off our tongue. >> They're all CUBE alumni, so we've talked to 'em all. >> Oh, this is great. >> It's awesome. (laughs) >> And they're all brilliant technologists, right? And they have defined applications that are so, so good at what they do, but they didn't all get together beforehand and say, "Hey, by the way, how can we work together to make sure that when this is all deployed, and operating in pipelines, and in parallel, that from an IT management perspective, it all just plays well together?" They solved their particular problems, and when it was just one application being deployed no harm no foul, right? When it's 10 applications being deployed, and all of a sudden the line item for big data application starts creeping past five, six, approaching 10%, people start to get a little bit nervous about the operational cost, the management cost, deployability, I talked about lifecycle management, refreshes, tech refreshes, expansion, all these things that when it's a small thing over there in the corner, okay, I'll just ignore it for a while. Yeah. Do you remember the old adventure game pieces? (Jeff laughs) I'm dating myself. >> What's adventure game, I don't know? (laughs) >> Yeah, when you watered a plant, "Water, please! Water, please!" The plant, the plant in there looked pitiful, you gave it water and then it goes "Water! Water! Give me water!" Then it starts to attack, but. >> I'll have to look that one up. (both laugh) Alright so, before I let you go, you've been at this for a while, you've seen a lot of iterations. As you kind of look forward over the next little while, kind of what do you see as some of the next kind of big movements or kind of big developments as kind of the IT evolution, and every company's now an IT company, or software company continues? >> So, let's just say that this is a great time, why I joined DriveScale actually, a couple reasons. This is a great time for composable infrastructure. It's like "Why is composalbe infrastructure important now?" It does solve a lot of problems, you can deploy legacy applications over and stuff, but, they don't have any pain points per se, they're running in their virtualization infrastructure over here, the enterprise storage over here. >> And IBM still sells mainframes, right? So there's still stuff-- >> IBM still sells mainframes. >> There's still stuff runnin' on those boxes. >> Yes there is. (laughs) >> Just let it be, let it run. >> This came up in Europe. (laughs) >> And just let it run, but there's no pain point there, what these increasingly deployed scale out applications, 2004 when the clocks beep was hit, and then everything went multi-core and then parallel applications became the norm, and then it became scale out applications for these for the Facebooks of the world, the Googles of the world, whatever. >> Amazon, et cetera. >> For their applications, that scale out is becoming the norm moving forward for application architecture, and application deployment. The more data that you process, the more scale out you need, and composable infrastructure is becoming a-- is a critical part of getting that under control, and getting you the flexibility and manageability to allow you to actually make sense of that deployment, in the IT center, in the large. And the second thing I want to mention is that, one thing is that Flash has emerged, and that's driven something called NVME over Fabrics, essentially a high-performance fabric interconnect for providing essentially local latency to remote resources; that is part of the composable infrastructure story today, and you're basically accessing with the speed of local access to solid state memory, you're accessing it over the fabric, and all these things are coming together driving a set of applications that are becoming both increasingly important, and increasingly expensive to deploy. And composable infrastructure allows you to get a handle on controlling those costs, and making it a lot more manageable. >> That's a great summary. And clearly, the amount of data, that's going to be coming into these things is only going up, up, up, so. Great conversation Brian, again, we still got to go meet at Terún, later so. >> Yeah, we have to go, yes. >> We will make that happen with ya. >> Great restaurant in Palo Alto. >> Thanks for stoppin' by, and, really appreciate the conversation. >> Yeah, and if you need to buy DriveScale, I'm your guy. (both laughing) >> Alright, he's Brian, I'm Jeff, you're walking the CUBE Conversation from our Palo Alto studios. Thanks for watchin', we'll see you at a conference soon, I'm sure. See ya next time. (intense orchestral music)

(intense orchestral music) >> Hi everybody this is Dave Vellante, welcome to this special CUBE presentation, where we're covering the Dell EMC Integrated Data Appliance announcement. You can see we also are running a crowd chat, it's an ask me anything crowd chat you can login with Twitter, LinkedIn, or Facebook, and ask any question. We've got Dell EMC executives, we're gonna hear from VMware executives, we've got the analyst perspective, we're gonna hear from customers and then of course we're gonna jump into the crowd chat. With me is Beth Phalen, who is the President of Dell's EMC, Dell EMCs Data Protection Division, Beth, great to see you again. >> Good to be here, Dave. >> Okay so, we know that 80% of the workloads are virtualized, we also know that when virtualization came on the scene it caused customers to really rethink their data protection strategies. Cloud is another force that's causing them to change the way in which they approach data protection, but let's start with virtualization. What are you guys doing for those virtualized customers? >> Data protection is crucial for our customers today, and more and more the vAdmins are being expected to protect their own environments. So we've been working very closely with VMware to make sure we're delivering the simplest data protection for VMware, taking into account all of the cloud capabilities that VMware is bringing to market and making sure we're protecting those as well. We have to do that without compromise, and so we have some really exciting innovations to talk about today. The first of those is the DP4400, we announced this a few weeks ago, it is a purpose-built appliance for mid-sized customers that brings forward all of our learnings from enterprise data protection, and makes it simple and easy to use, and at the right price point for our mid-sized customers. We're the extension into VMware environments and extensions into the cloud. >> Okay, so I mentioned up front that cloud is this disruptive force. You know people expect the outcome of cloud to be simplicity, ease of management, but the cloud adds IT complexity. How are you making data protection simpler for the cloud? >> And the cloud has many different ways the customers can leverage it. The two that we're gonna highlight today are for those customers that are using VMware Cloud on AWS, we're now enabling a seamless disaster recovery option, so customers can fail over to VMware Cloud on AWS for their DR configurations. And on top of that, we're very excited to talk about data protection as a service. We all know how wildly popular that is and how rapidly it's growing, and we've now integrated with VMware vCloud Director to allow customers to not have to have a separate backup as a service portal, but provide management for both their VMware environments and their data protection, all integrated within VCD. >> Okay great, so, we know that VMware of course is the leader in virtualization, we're gonna cut away for a moment and hear from VMware executives, we're gonna back here we're gonna do a deep dive, as I say we got great agenda, we're gonna explore some of these things; and then of course there's the crowd chat, the ask me anything crowd chat. So let's cut over to Palo Alto, California, in our studios over there, and let's hear from the VMware perspective and Peter Burris, take it away, Peter. (intense orchestral music) >> Thanks, Dave! And this is Peter Burris, and I can report that in fact we have another beautiful day here in California. And also, we've got a great VMware executive to talk a bit about this important announcement. Yanbing Li is the Senior Vice President and GM for the Storage and Availability Business Unit at Vmware, welcome back to theCUBE Yanbing. >> It's great to be here, thank you for having me Peter. >> Oh absolutely we've got a lot of great stuff to talk about but let's start with the obvious question. Why is it so important to VMware and Dell EMC to work on this question, data availability, data protection? >> You know I have a very simple answer for you. You know Dell EMC has been the marketing leader for the past decade, and they are also a leading solution for all of our VMware environment, it's very natural that we do a lot of collaboration with them. And what's most important, is our collaboration is not only go-to-market collaboration, in labeling our joint customers, but also deep engineering level collaboration, and that is very very exciting. Lots of our solutions are really co-engineered together. >> So, that is in service to something. And now putting all this knowledge, all this product together to create a solution, is in service of data protection but especially as it relates to spanning the cloud. So talk to us a little bit about how this is gonna make it easier for customers to be where they need to be in their infrastructure. >> Certainly VMware has been also on a journey to help with our customers, their transition from data center to the cloud, and data protection is a very crucial aspect of that; and we're looking for simpler, scalable, more robust data protection solutions. You know VMware launched our VMware Cloud on AWS service last year, and Dell EMC has been with us since day one; they're the first solution to be certified as a data protection service for VMware Cloud on AWS. We also work with 4500 VCCP partners, this is the VMware Cloud partner program partners that, you know they are building cloud services based on VMware software defined data center stack. And we are also working with Dell EMC on integrating their data protection source with vCloud, their vCloud Director software, so that you know our customer has integrated data protection for our VCCP partners. So you know across all the cloud initiatives, we are working very closely with Dell EMC. >> So bringing the best of the technology, the best of this massive ecosystem together, to help customers protect their data and give them options about where they operate their infrastructure. >> Definitely. I'm personally very excited about their recent announcement that has been to the Data Domain Virtual Edition, where they're offering a subscription-based data protection bundle that can allow a VMware Cloud on AWS instance to back up their data, you know, using a subscription model, and you can backup 96 terabytes for any single SDC cluster in VMware Cloud on AWS. So they're definitely driving a lot of innovation not only in technology, but also in consumption, how to make it easier for customers to consume. And we're excited to be a partner with Dell EMC together on this. >> Fantastic! Yanbing Li, VMware, back to you, Dave! >> Thanks, Peter. We're back for the deep dive, Beth Phalen and joining us again, and Ruya Barrett, who's the Vice President of Marketing for Dell EMC's Data Protection Division, thanks guys for coming on. Ruya, let me start with you. Why are customers, and what are they telling you, in terms of why they're acquiring your data protection solutions? >> Well, Beth talked a little bit about the engineering effort, and collaboration we've been putting in place, and so did Yanbing with VMware, so whether that's integration into vCenter, or vSphere, or vRealize Operations Manager, vRealize Automation or vCloud Director, all of this work, all of this engineering effort, and engineering hours is really to do two things: deliver simply powerful data protection for VMware customers >> But what do you mean by simple? >> Simple. Well, simple comes in two types of approaches, right? Simple is through automation. One of the things that we've done is really automate across the data protection stack for VMware. Where as 99% of the market solutions really leave it off at policy management, so they automate the policy layer. We automate not only the policy layer, but the vProxy deployment, as well as the data movement. We have five types of data movement capabilities that have been automated. Whether you're going directly from storage to protection storage, whether you're doing client to protection storage, whether you're doing application to protection storage, or whether you're doing Hypervisor Direct to application storage. So it really is to automate, and to maximize the performance of to meet the customer's service levels, so automation is critical when you're doing that. The other part of automation could be in how easy cloud is for the admins and users, it really has to do with being able to orchestrate all of the activities, you know very simply and easily. Simplicity is also management. We are hearing more and more that the admins are taking on the role of doing their backups and restores, so, our efforts with VMware have been to really simplify the management so that they can use their native tools. We've integrated with VMware for the vAdmins to be able to take backup and restore just a part of their daily operational tasks. >> So, when you talk about power, is that performance, you reference performance, but is it just performance, or is it more than that? >> That's also a great question, Dave, thank you. Power really, in terms of data protection, is three fold, it's power in making sure that you have a single, powerful solution, that really covers a comprehensive set of applications and requirements, not only for today, but also tomorrow's needs. So that comprehensive coverage, whether you're on-premise, or in the cloud is really critical. Power means performance, of course it means performance. Being able to deliver the highest performing protection, and more importantly restores, is really critical to our customers. Power also means not sacrificing efficiency to get that performance. So efficiency, we have the best source ID duplication technology in the market, that coupled with the performance is really critical to our customers. So all of these, the simplicity, the comprehensive coverage, the performance, the efficiency, also drives the lowest cost to protect for our customers. >> Alright, I wanna bring Beth Phalen into the conversation, Beth, let's talk about cloud a little bit. A lot of people feel as though I can take data, I can dump it into an object store in the cloud, and I'm protected. Your thoughts? >> Yeah, we hear that same misconception, and in fact the exact opposite is true; it's even more important that people have world class data protection when they're bringing cloud into that IT environment, they have to know where their data is, and how is protected and how to restore it. So we have a few innovations that are going on here for a long time, we've had our hyper cloud extensions, you can do cloud tiering directly from Data Domain. And now we've also extended what you can do if you're a VMware Cloud on AWS customer, so that you can use that for you cloud DR configuartion, fail over to AWS with VMware Cloud, and then fail back with vMotion if you choose to; and that's great for customers who don't wanna have a second site, but they do wanna have confidence that they can recover if there's a disaster. On top of that we've also been doing some really great with VMware, with vCloud Director integration. Data protection as a service is growing like crazy, it's highly popular around the globe as a way to consume data protection. And so now you can integrate both your VMware tasks, and your data protection tasks, from one UI in the Cloud Director. These are just a few of the things that we're doing, comprehensively bringing data protection to the cloud, is essential. >> Great, okay. Dell EMC just recently made an announcement, the IDPA DP4400, Ruya what's it all about? Explain. >> Absolutely, so, what we announced is really an integrated data protection appliance, turnkey, purpose-built, to meet the specific requirements of mid-sized customers, it's really, to bring that enterprise sensibility and protection to our mid-sized customers. It's all inclusive in terms of capabilities, so if you're talking about backup, restore, replication, disaster recovery, cloud disaster recovery, and cloud long-term retention, all at your fingertips, all included; as well as all of the capabilities we talked about in terms of enabling VM admins to be able to do all of their daily tasks and operations through their own native tools and UI's. So it's really all about bringing simply powerful protection to mid-sized customers at the lowest cost to protect. And we now also have a guarantee under our future proof loyalty program, we are introducing a 55 to one deduplication guarantee for those exact customers. >> Okay. Beth, could you talk about the motivation for this product? Why did you build it, and why is relevant to mid-sized customers? >> So we're known as number one in enterprise data protection we're known for our world-class dedupe, best in class, best in the world dedupe capabilities. And what we've done is we've taken the learnings and the IP that we have that's served enterprise customers for all of these years, and then we're making that accessible to mid-sized customers And there were so many companies out there that can take advantage of our technology that maybe couldn't before these announcements. So by building this, we've created a product that a mid-sized company, may have a small IT staff, like I said at the beginning, may have VM admins who are also responsible for data protection, that they can have what we bring to the market with best-in-class data protection. >> I wanna follow up with you on simple and powerful. What is your perspective on simple, what does it mean for customers? >> Yeah, I mean if you break it down, simple means simple to deploy, two times faster than traditional data protection, simple means easier to manage with modern HTML5 interfaces that include the data protection day-to-day tasks, also include reporting. Simple means easy to grow, growing in place from 24 terabytes up to 96 terabytes with just a simple software license to add in 12 terabyte increments. So all of those things come together to reduce the amount of time that an IT admin has to spend on data protection. >> So, when I hear powerful and here mid-sized customers, I'm thinking okay I wanna bring enterprise-class data protection down to the mid-sized organization. Is that what you means? Can you actually succeed in doing that? >> Yeah. If I'm an IT admin I wanna make sure that I can protect all of my data as quickly and efficiently as possible. And so, we have the broadest support matrix in the industry, I don't have to bring in multiple products to support protection on my different applications, that's key, that's one thing. The other thing is I wanna be able to scale, and I don't wanna have to be forced to bring in new products with this you have a logical five terabytes on-prem, you can grow to protecting additional 10 terabytes in the cloud, so that's another key piece of it, scalability. >> Petabytes, sorry. >> And then-- >> Sorry. Petabytes-- >> Petabytes. >> You said terabytes. (laughs) >> You live in a petabyte world! >> Of course, yes, what am I thinking. (all laugh) and then last but not least, it's just performance, right? This runs on a 14GB PowerEdge server; you're gonna get the efficiency, you can protect five times as many VMs as you could without this kind of product. So, all of those things come together with power, scalability, support matrix, and performance. >> Great, thank you. Okay, Ruya, let's talk about the business impact. Start with this IT operations person, what does it mean for that individual? >> Yeah, absolutely. So first, you're gonna get your weekends back, right? So, the product is just faster, we talked about it's simpler, you're not gonna have to get a PhD on how to do data protection, to be able to do your business. You're gonna enable your vAdmins to be able to take on some of the tasks. So it's really about freeing up your weekends, having that you know sound mind that data protection's just happening, it works! We've already tried and tested this with some of the most crucial businesses, with the most stringent service-level requirements; it's just gonna work. And, by the way, you're gonna look like a hero, because with this 2U appliance, you're gonna be able to support 15 petabytes across the most comprehensive coverage in the data center, so your boss is gonna think your just a superhero. >> Petabytes. >> Yeah exactly, petabytes, exactly. (all laugh) So it's tremendous for the IT user, and also the business user. >> By the way, what about the boss? What about the line of business, what does it mean to that individual? >> So if I'm the CEO or the CIO, I really wanna think about where am I putting my most skilled personnel? And my most skilled personnel, especially as IT is becoming so core to the business, is probably not best served doing data protection. So just being able to free up those resources to really drive applications or initiatives that are driving revenue for the business is critical. Number two, if I'm the boss, I don't wanna overpay for data protection. Data protection is insurance for the business, you need it, but you don't wanna overpay for it. So I think that lowest cost is a really critical requirement The third one is really minimizing risk and compliance issues for the business. If I have the sound mind, and the trust that this is just gonna work, then I'm gonna be able to recover my business no matter what the scenario; and that it's been tried and true in the biggest accounts across the world. I'm gonna rest assured that I have less exposure to my business. >> Great. Ruya, Beth, thank you very much, don't forget, we have an ask me anything crowd chat at the end of this session, so you can go in, login with Twitter, LinkedIn, or Facebook, and ask any question. Alright, let's take a look at the product, and then we're gonna come back and get the analysts perspective, keep it right there. (intense music) >> Organizations today, especially mid-sized organizations, are faced with increased complexity; driving the need for data protection solutions that enable them to do more with less. The Dell EMC IDPA DP4400 packages the proven enterprise class technologies that have made us the number one provider in data protection into a converged appliance specifically designed for mid-sized organizations. While other solutions sacrifice power in the name of simplicity, the IDPA DP4400 delivers simply powerful data protection. The IDPA DP4400 combines protection software and storage, search and analytics, and cloud readiness, in one appliance. To save you time and money, we made it simple for you to deploy and upgrade, and, easily grow in place without disruption, adding capacity with simple license upgrades without buying more hardware. Data protection management is also a snap with the IDPA System Manager. IDPA is optimized for VMware data protection. It is also integrated with vSphere, SQL, and Oracle, to enable a wider IT audience to manage data protection. The IDPA DP4400 provides protection across the largest application ecosystem, deliver breakneck backup speeds, more efficient network usage, and unmatched 55 to one average deduplication. The IDPA DP400 is natively extensible to the cloud for long-term retention. And, also enables simple, and cost effective cloud disaster recovery. Deduplicated data is stored in AWS with minimal footprint, with failover to AWS and failback to on-premises quickly, easily, and cost effectively. The IDPA DP4400 delivers all this at the lowest cost-to-protect. It includes a three year satisfaction guarantee, as well as an up to 55 to one data protection deduplication guarantee. The Dell EMC IDPA DP4400 provides backup, replication, deduplication, search, analytics, instant access for application testing and development, as well as DR and long-term retention to the cloud. Everything you need to deliver enterprise-class data protection, in a small integrated system, optimized for mid-sized environments. It's simply powerful. (upbeat music and rhythmic claps) >> Cool video! Alright, we're back, with Vinny Choinski, who is the Senior Analyst for the Validation Practice at ESG, Enterprise Strategy Group. ESG is a company that does a lot of research, and one of the areas is they have these lab reports, and they basically validate vendor claims, it's an awesome service, they've had it for a number of years and Vinny is an expert in this area. Vinny Choinski, welcome to theCUBE great to see you. >> How you doin' Dave? Great to see you. >> So, when you talk to customers they tell you they hate complexity, first of all, and specifically in the context of data protection, they want high performance, they don't wanna have to mess with this stuff, and they want low cost. What are you seeing in the marketplace? >> So our research is lining up with those challenges; and that's why I've recently done three reports. We talked to how EMC is addressing those challenges and how they are making it easier, faster, and less expensive to do data protection. >> So people don't wanna do a lot of heavy lifting. They worry about the time it takes to do deployment. So, what did you find, hands on, what'd you find with regards to deployment? >> Yeah, so for the deployment, we really yeah, we focused on the DP4400 and you know how that's making it easier for the IT generalist to do data protection deployment, and management. And what we did, I actually walked through the whole process from the delivery truck to first backup. We had it off the truck and racked up and powered up in about 30 minutes, so, it's a service sized appliance, pretty easy, easy to install. Spent 10 minutes in the server room kinda configuring it to the network, and then we went up to an office, and finished the configuration. After that I basically hit go on the configuration button, completely automated. And I simply monitored the process until the appliance was fully configured. Took me about 20 minutes, you know, to add that configuration to the appliance, hit go, and at the end, I had an appliance that was ready for on-site, and backups extended to the cloud. >> So, that met your expectations? It meshed with the vendors claims? >> It was real easy. We actually had to move it around a couple times, and you know, this stuff used to be huge you know, big box, metal gear. >> Refrigerators. (laughs) >> Refrigerators. It was a small appliance, once we installed it, got a note from the IT guy, had to move it. No tools, easy rack, the configuration was automated. We had to set network parameters, that's about it. >> How about your performance testing, what did that show? >> So we did some pretty extensive performance testing. We actually compared the IDPA Dell appliances to the industry recognized server grid scaled architecture. And basically we started by matching the hardware parameters of the box, CPU, memory, disk, network, flash, so once we had the boxes configured apples to apples shall we say, we ran a rigorous set of tests. We scaled the environment from a hundred to a thousand VMs, adding a hundred VMs in between each backup run. And what we found as we were doing the test was that the IDPA reduced the backup window significantly over the competitive solution. A 54 to 68% reduction in the backup window. >> Okay. So again, you're kind of expectations tied into the vendor claims? >> Yep. You know the reduction in backup time was pretty significant that's a pretty good environment, pretty good test environment, right, you got the hundred to a thousand VMs. We also looked at the efficiency of data transfer, and we found that IDPA outperformed the competitor there as well, significantly. And we found that this is do to the the mature data domain deduplication technology. It not only leverages, like most companies will, the VMware Changed Block Tracking API, but it has it's own client-side software that really reduces, significantly reduces the amount of data that needs to be transferred over the network for each backup. And we found that reduced the amount of data that needs to be transferred against the competitor by 74%. >> What about the economics, it's the one of the key paying points obviously for IT professionals. What did you see there? >> Yep, so, there's a lot that goes into the economics of a data protection environment. We summed it up into what we call the cost to protect. We actually collected call home data from 15,000 Dell EMC data protection appliances deployed worldwide. >> Oh cool, real data. >> Real data. So, we had the real data, we got it from 15,000 different environments, we took that data and we we used some of the stuff that we analyzed, the price that they paid for it, how long has it been in service, what the deduplication rates they're getting, and then the amount of data. So we had all the components that told us what was happening with that box. So that allowed us to to distill that into this InstaGraphic that we see up here, which takes 12, shows 12 of the customers that we analyzed. Different industries, different architectures, on the far left of this InstaGraphic you're gonna see that we had a data domain box connected to a third-party backup application, still performing economically, quite well. On the far right we have the fully integrated IDPA solution, you'll see that as you put things better together, the economics get even better, right? So, what we found was that both data domain and the IDPA can easily serve data protection environments storage for a fraction of a penny per month. >> Okay. Important to point out this is metadata, no customer data involved here, right, it's just. >> It's metadata that's correct. >> Right, okay. Summarize your impressions based on your research, and your hands on lab work. >> Yeah, so I've been doing this for almost 25 plus years, I've been in the data protection space, I was an end user, I actually ran backup environments, I worked in the reseller space, sold the gear, and now I'm an analyst with ESG, taking a look at all the different solutions that are out there, and, you know data protection has never been easy, and there's always a lot of moving parts, and it gets harder when you really need a solution that backs up everything, right? From your physical, virtual, to the cloud, the legacy stuff, right? Dell EMC has packaged this up, in my opinion, quite well. They've looked at the economics, they've looked at the ease of use, they've looked at the performance, and they've put the right components in there they have the data protection software, they have the target storage, they have the analytics, you can do it with an agent, you can do it without an agent. So I think they've put all the pieces in here, so it's not an easy thing in my opinion, and I think they've nailed this one. >> Excellent. Well Vinny, thanks so much for for comin' on and sharing the results of your research, really appreciate it. Alright, let's hear from the customer, and then we're gonna come back with Beth Phalen and wrap, keep it right there. (upbeat techno music) >> I was a fortune 500 company, a global provider of product solutions and services, and enterprise computing solutions. The DP4400 is attractive because customers have different consumption models. There are those that like to build their own, and there are those that want an integrated solution, they want to focus on their core business as opposed to engineering a solution. So for those customers that are looking for that type of experience, the DP4400 will address a full data protection solution that has a single pane of glass, simplified management, simplified deployment, and also, ease-of-management over time. >> Vollrath is a food service industry manufacturer, it's been in business for 144 years, in some way we probably touch your life everyday. From a semantic perspective, things that weren't meeting our needs really come around to the management of all of your backup sets. We had backup windows for four to eight hours, and we were to the point where when those backups failed, which was fairly regular, we didn't have enough time to run them again. With Dell EMC data protection, we're getting phenomenal returns, shorter times. What took us eight hours is taking under an hour, maybe it's upwards of two at times for even larger sets. It's single interface, really does help. So when you take into account how much time you spend trying to manage with old solutions that's another unparalleled piece. >> I'm the IT Director for Melanson Heath, we are a full service accounting firm. The top three benefits of the DP4400 simplicity of not having to do a lot of research, the ease of deployment, not having to go back or have external resources, it's really designed so that I can rack it, stack it, and get going. Having a data protection solution that works with all of my software and systems is vital. We are completely reliant on our technology infrastructure, and we need to know that if something happens, we have a plan B, that can be deployed quickly and easily. (upbeat techno music) >> We're back, it's always great to hear the customer perspective. We're back with Beth Phalen. Beth let's summarize, bring it home for us, this announcement. >> We are making sure that no matter what the size of your organization, you can protect your data in your VMware environment simply and powerfully without compromise, and have confidence, whether you're on-prem or in the cloud, you can restore your data whenever you need to. >> Awesome, well thanks so much Beth for sharing the innovations, and we're not done yet, so jump into the crowd chat, as I said, you can log in with Twitter, LinkedIn, or Facebook, ask any questions, we're gonna be teeing up some questions and doing some surveys. So thanks for watching everybody, and we'll see you in the crowd chat.