>>Welcome back everyone, to the special presentation of Cloud Native at scale, the Cube and Platform nine special presentation going in and digging into the next generation super cloud infrastructure as code and the future of application development. We're here with Bickley, who's the chief architect and co-founder of Platform nine Pick. Great to see you Cube alumni. We, we met at an OpenStack event in about eight years ago, or later, earlier when OpenStack was going. Great to see you and great to see congratulations on the success of Platform nine. Thank >>You very much. >>Yeah. You guys have been at this for a while and this is really the, the, the year we're seeing the, the crossover of Kubernetes because of what happens with containers. Everyone now has realized, and you've seen what Docker's doing with the new docker, the open source Docker now just a success Exactly. Of containerization. Right? And now the Kubernetes layer that we've been working on for years is coming, Bearing fruit. This is huge. >>Exactly, Yes. >>And so as infrastructure, as code comes in, we talked to Bacar, talking about Super Cloud. I met her about, you know, the new Arlon, our, our lawn you guys just launched, the infrastructure's code is going to another level, and then it's always been DevOps infrastructure is code. That's been the ethos that's been like from day one, developers just code. Then you saw the rise of serverless and you see now multi-cloud or on the horizon. Connect the dots for us. What is the state of infrastructures code today? >>So I think, I think I'm, I'm glad you mentioned it. Everybody or most people know about infrastructures code, but with Kubernetes, I think that project has evolved at the concept even further. And these dates, it's infrastructure is configuration, right? So, which is an evolution of infrastructure as code. So instead of telling the system, here's how I want my infrastructure by telling it, you know, do step A, B, C, and D. Instead, with Kubernetes, you can describe your desired state declaratively using things called manifest resources. And then the system kind of magically figures it out and tries to converge the state towards the one that you specify. So I think it's, it's a even better version of infrastructures code. Yeah, >>Yeah. And, and that really means it's developer just accessing resources. Okay. That declare, Okay, give me some compute, stand me up some, turn the lights on, turn 'em off, turn 'em on. That's kind of where we see this going. And I like the configuration piece. Some people say composability, I mean now with open source, so popular, you don't have to have to write a lot of code, this code being developed. And so it's into integrations, configuration. These are areas that we're starting to see computer science principles around automation, machine learning, assisting open source. Cuz you've got a lot of code that's right in hearing software, supply chain issues. So infrastructure as code has to factor in these new, new dynamics. Can you share your opinion on these new dynamics of, as open source grows, the glue layers, the configurations, the integration, what are the core issues? >>I think one of the major core issues is with all that power comes complexity, right? So, you know, despite its expressive power systems like Kubernetes and declarative APIs let you express a lot of complicated and complex stacks, right? But you're dealing with hundreds if not thousands of these yamo files or resources. And so I think, you know, the emergence of systems and layers to help you manage that complexity is becoming a key challenge and opportunity in, in this space. That's, >>I wrote a LinkedIn post today, it was comments about, you know, hey, enterprise is the new breed, the trend of SaaS companies moving our consumer comp consumer-like thinking into the enterprise has been happening for a long time, but now more than ever, you're seeing it the old way used to be solve complexity with more complexity and then lock the customer in. Now with open source, it's speed, simplification and integration, right? These are the new dynamic power dynamics for developers. Yeah. So as companies are starting to now deploy and look at Kubernetes, what are the things that need to be in place? Because you have some, I won't say technical debt, but maybe some shortcuts, some scripts here that make it look like infrastructure is code. People have done some things to simulate or or make infrastructure as code happen. Yes. But to do it at scale Yes. Is harder. What's your take on this? What's your >>View? It's hard because there's a per proliferation of methods, tools, technologies. So for example, today it's very common for DevOps and platform engineering tools, I mean, sorry, teams to have to deploy a large number of Kubernetes clusters, but then apply the applications and configurations on top of those clusters. And they're using a wide range of tools to do this, right? For example, maybe Ansible or Terraform or bash scripts to bring up the infrastructure and then the clusters. And then they may use a different set of tools such as Argo CD or other tools to apply configurations and applications on top of the clusters. So you have this sprawl of tools. You, you also have this sprawl of configurations and files because the more objects you're dealing with, the more resources you have to manage. And there's a risk of drift that people call that where, you know, you think you have things under control, but some people from various teams will make changes here and there and then before the end of the day systems break and you have no idea of tracking them. So I think there's real need to kind of unify, simplify, and try to solve these problems using a smaller, more unified set of tools and methodologies. And that's something that we tried to do with this new project. Arlon. >>Yeah. So, so we're gonna get into our line in a second. I wanna get into the why Arlon. You guys announced that at our GoCon, which was put on here in Silicon Valley at the, at the community invite in two where they had their own little day over there at their headquarters. But before we get there, vascar, your CEO came on and he talked about Super Cloud at our in AAL event. What's your definition of super cloud? If you had to kind of explain that to someone at a cocktail party or someone in the industry technical, how would you look at the super cloud trend that's emerging? It's become a thing. What's your, what would be your contribution to that definition or the narrative? >>Well, it's, it's, it's funny because I've actually heard of the term for the first time today, speaking to you earlier today. But I think based on what you said, I I already get kind of some of the, the gist and the, the main concepts. It seems like super cloud, the way I interpret that is, you know, clouds and infrastructure, programmable infrastructure, all of those things are becoming commodity in a way. And everyone's got their own flavor, but there's a real opportunity for people to solve real business problems by perhaps trying to abstract away, you know, all of those various implementations and then building better abstractions that are perhaps business or application specific to help companies and businesses solve real business problems. >>Yeah, I remember that's a great, great definition. I remember, not to date myself, but back in the old days, you know, IBM had a proprietary network operating system, so of deck for the mini computer vendors, deck net and SNA respectively. But T C P I P came out of the osi, the open systems interconnect and remember, ethernet beat token ring out. So not to get all nerdy for all the young kids out there, look, just look up token ring, you'll see, you've probably never heard of it. It's IBM's, you know, connection to the internet at the, the layer too is Amazon, the ethernet, right? So if T C P I P could be the Kubernetes and the container abstraction that made the industry completely change at that point in history. So at every major inflection point where there's been serious industry change and wealth creation and business value, there's been an abstraction Yes. Somewhere. Yes. What's your reaction to that? >>I think this is, I think a saying that's been heard many times in this industry and, and I forgot who originated it, but I think the saying goes like, there's no problem that can't be solved with another layer of indirection, right? And we've seen this over and over and over again where Amazon and its peers have inserted this layer that has simplified, you know, computing and, and infrastructure management. And I believe this trend is going to continue, right? The next set of problems are going to be solved with these insertions of additional abstraction layers. I think that that's really a, yeah, it's gonna continue. >>It's interesting. I just, when I wrote another post today on LinkedIn called the Silicon Wars AMD stock is down arm has been on a rise. We've remember pointing for many years now, that arm's gonna be hugely, it has become true. If you look at the success of the infrastructure as a serviced layer across the clouds, Azure, aws, Amazon's clearly way ahead of everybody. The stuff that they're doing with the silicon and the physics and the, the atoms, the pro, you know, this is where the innovation, they're going so deep and so strong at ISAs, the more that they get that gets come on, they have more performance. So if you're an app developer, wouldn't you want the best performance and you'd want to have the best abstraction layer that gives you the most ability to do infrastructures, code or infrastructure for configuration, for provisioning, for managing services. And you're seeing that today with service MeSHs, a lot of action going on in the service mesh area in in this community of, of co con, which we will be covering. So that brings up the whole what's next? You guys just announced Arlon at ar GoCon, which came out of Intuit. We've had Mariana Tessel at our super cloud event. She's the cto, you know, they're all in the cloud. So they contributed that project. Where did Arlon come from? What was the origination? What's the purpose? Why arlon, why this announcement? Yeah, >>So the, the inception of the project, this was the result of us realizing that problem that we spoke about earlier, which is complexity, right? With all of this, these clouds, these infrastructure, all the variations around and, you know, compute storage networks and the proliferation of tools we talked about the Ansibles and Terraforms and Kubernetes itself, you can think of that as another tool, right? We saw a need to solve that complexity problem, and especially for people and users who use Kubernetes at scale. So when you have, you know, hundreds of clusters, thousands of applications, thousands of users spread out over many, many locations, there, there needs to be a system that helps simplify that management, right? So that means fewer tools, more expressive ways of describing the state that you want and more consistency. And, and that's why, you know, we built our lawn and we built it recognizing that many of these problems or sub problems have already been solved. So Arlon doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, it instead rests on the shoulders of several giants, right? So for example, Kubernetes is one building block, GI ops, and Argo CD is another one, which provides a very structured way of applying configuration. And then we have projects like cluster API and cross plane, which provide APIs for describing infrastructure. So arlon takes all of those building blocks and builds a thin layer, which gives users a very expressive way of defining configuration and desired state. So that's, that's kind of the inception of, >>And what's the benefit of that? What does that give the, what does that give the developer, the user, in this case, >>The developers, the, the platform engineer, team members, the DevOps engineers, they get a a ways to provision not just infrastructure and clusters, but also applications and configurations. They get a way, a system for provisioning, configuring, deploying, and doing life cycle management in a, in a much simpler way. Okay. Especially as I said, if you're dealing with a large number of applications. >>So it's like an operating fabric, if you will. Yes. For them. Okay, so let's get into what that means for up above and below the, the, this abstraction or thin layer below as the infrastructure. We talked a lot about what's going on below that. Yeah. Above our workloads. At the end of the day, you, I talk to CXOs and IT folks that, that are now DevOps engineers. They care about the workloads and they want the infrastructure's code to work. They wanna spend their time getting in the weeds, figuring out what happened when someone made a push that that happened or something happened to need observability and they need to, to know that it's working. That's right. And here's my workloads running effectively. So how do you guys look at the workload side of it? Cuz now you have multiple workloads on these fabric, right? >>So workloads, so Kubernetes has defined kind of a standard way to describe workloads and you can, you know, tell Kubernetes, I wanna run this container this particular way, or you can use other projects that are in the Kubernetes cloud native ecosystem, like K native, where you can express your application in more at a higher level, right? But what's also happening is in addition to the workloads, DevOps and platform engineering teams, they need to very often deploy the applications with the clusters themselves. Clusters are becoming this commodity. It's, it's becoming this host for the application and it kind of comes bundled with it. In many cases it is like an appliance, right? So DevOps teams have to provision clusters at a really incredible rate and they need to tear them down. Clusters are becoming more, >>It's coming like an EC two instance, spin up a cluster. We very, people used words like that. >>That's right. And before arlon you kind of had to do all of that using a different set of tools as, as I explained. So with Arlon you can kind of express everything together. You can say I want a cluster with a health monitoring stack and a logging stack and this ingress controller and I want these applications and these security policies. You can describe all of that using something we call a profile. And then you can stamp out your app, your applications and your clusters and manage them in a very, >>So essentially standard like creates a mechanism. Exactly. Standardized, declarative kind of configurations. And it's like a playbook, deploy it. Now what there between say a script like I'm, I have scripts, I can just automate scripts >>Or yes, this is where that declarative API and infrastructures configuration comes in, right? Because scripts, yes you can automate scripts, but the order in which they run matters, right? They can break, things can break in the middle and, and sometimes you need to debug them. Whereas the declarative way is much more expressive and powerful. You just tell the system what you want and then the system kind of figures it out. And there are these things got controllers which will in the background reconcile all the state to converge towards your desire. It's a much more powerful, expressive and reliable way of getting things done. >>So infrastructure has configuration is built kind of on it's super set of infrastructures code because it's >>An evolution. >>You need edge re's code, but then you can configure the code by just saying do it. You basically declaring it's saying Go, go do that. That's right. Okay, so, alright, so cloud native at scale, take me through your vision of what that means. Someone says, Hey, what does cloud native at scale mean? What's success look like? How does it roll out in the future as you, not future next couple years. I mean people are now starting to figure out, okay, it's not as easy as it sounds. Kubernetes has value. We're gonna hear this year coan a lot of this. What does cloud native at scale mean? >>Yeah, there are different interpretations, but if you ask me, when people think of scale, they think of a large number of deployments, right? Geographies, many, you know, supporting thousands or tens or millions of, of users there, there's that aspect to scale. There's also an equally important a aspect of scale, which is also something that we try to address with Arran. And that is just complexity for the people operating this or configuring this, right? So in order to describe that desired state, and in order to perform things like maybe upgrades or updates on a very large scale, you want the humans behind that to be able to express and direct the system to do that in, in relatively simple terms, right? And so we want the tools and the abstractions and the mechanisms available to the user to be as powerful but as simple as possible. So there's, I think there's gonna be a number and there have been a number of CNCF and cloud native projects that are trying to attack that complexity problem as well. And Arlon kind of falls in in that >>Category. Okay, so I'll put you on the spot. Rogue got Coan coming up and obviously this'll be shipping this segment series out before. What do you expect to see at this year? What's the big story this year? What's the, what's the most important thing happening? Is it in the open source community and also within a lot of the, the people jogging for leadership. I know there's a lot of projects and still there's some white space in the overall systems map about the different areas get run time, there's ability in all these different areas. What's the, where's the action? Where, where's the smoke? Where's the fire? Where's the piece? Where's the tension? >>Yeah, so I think one thing that has been happening over the past couple of cub cons and I expect to continue and, and that is the, the word on the street is Kubernetes is getting boring, right? Which is good, right? >>Boring means simple. >>Well, >>Well maybe, >>Yeah, >>Invisible, >>No drama, right? So, so the, the rate of change of the Kubernetes features and, and all that has slowed, but in, in a, in a positive way. But there's still a general sentiment and feeling that there's just too much stuff. If you look at a stack necessary for hosting applications based on Kubernetes, there are just still too many moving parts, too many components, right? Too much complexity. I go, I keep going back to the complexity problem. So I expect Cube Con and all the vendors and the players and the startups and the people there to continue to focus on that complexity problem and introduce further simplifications to, to the stack. >>Yeah. Vic, you've had an storied career, VMware over decades with them, obviously in 12 years with 14 years or something like that. Big number co-founder here at Platform now you's been around for a while at this game. We, man, we talked about OpenStack, that project you, we interviewed at one of their events. So OpenStack was the beginning of that, this new revolution. I remember the early days it was, it wasn't supposed to be an alternative to Amazon, but it was a way to do more cloud cloud native. I think we had a cloud a Rod team at that time. We would joke we, you know, about, about the dream. It's happening now, now at Platform nine. You guys have been doing this for a while. What's the, what are you most excited about as the chief architect? What did you guys double down on? What did you guys pivot from or two, did you do any pivots? Did you extend out certain areas? Cuz you guys are in a good position right now, a lot of DNA in Cloud native. What are you most excited about and what does Platform Nine bring to the table for customers and for people in the industry watching this? >>Yeah, so I think our mission really hasn't changed over the years, right? It's been always about taking complex open source software because open source software, it's powerful. It solves new problems, you know, every year and you have new things coming out all the time, right? Open Stack was an example where the Kubernetes took the world by storm. But there's always that complexity of, you know, just configuring it, deploying it, running it, operating it. And our mission has always been that we will take all that complexity and just make it, you know, easy for users to consume regardless of the technology, right? So the successor to Kubernetes, you know, I don't have a crystal ball, but you know, you have some indications that people are coming up of new and simpler ways of running applications. There are many projects around there who knows what's coming next year or the year after that. But platform will, a, platform nine will be there and we will, you know, take the innovations from the, the, the community. We will contribute our own innovations and make all of those things very consumable to customers. >>Simpler, faster, cheaper. Exactly. Always a good business model technically to make that happen. Yes. Yeah. I think the, the reigning in the chaos is key, you know, Now we have now visibility into the scale. Final question before we depart Yeah. On this segment, what is at scale, how many clusters do you see that would be a, a watermark for an at scale conversation around an enterprise? Is it workloads we're looking at or, or clusters? How would you Yeah, I would you describe that when people try to squint through and evaluate what's a scale, what's the at scale kind of threshold? >>Yeah. And, and the number of clusters doesn't tell the whole story because clusters can be small in terms of the number of nodes or they can be large. But roughly speaking when we say, you know, large scale cluster deployments, we're talking about maybe hundreds, two thousands. Yeah. >>And final final question, what's the role of the hyperscalers? You got AWS continuing to do well, but they got their core ias, they got a PAs, they're not too too much putting a SaaS out there. They have some SaaS apps, but mostly it's the ecosystem. They have marketplaces doing, doing over $2 billion billions of transactions a year. And, and it's just like, just sitting there. It hasn't really, they're now innovating on it, but that's gonna change ecosystems. What's the role the cloud play in the cloud Native at scale? >>The the hyper square? >>Yeah. Yeah. Abras, Azure, Google, >>You mean from a business perspective, they're, they have their own interests that, you know, that they're, they will keep catering to, They, they will continue to find ways to lock their users into their ecosystem of services and, and APIs. So I don't think that's gonna change, right? They're just gonna keep Well, >>They got great I performance, I mean from a, from a hardware standpoint, yes. That's gonna be key, right? >>Yes. I think the, the move from X 86 being the dominant way and platform to run workloads is changing, right? That, that, that, that, and I think the, the hyperscalers really want to be in the game in terms of, you know, the, the new risk and arm ecosystems and the >>Platforms. Yeah. Not joking aside, Paul Morritz, when he was the CEO of VMware, when he took over once said, I remember our first year doing the cube. Oh, the cloud is one big distributed computer. It's, it's hardware and you got software and you got middleware. And he kinda over, well he kind of tongue in cheek, but really you're talking about large compute and sets of services that is essentially a distributed computer. Yes, >>Exactly. >>It's, we're back in the same game. Thank you for coming on the segment. Appreciate your time. This is cloud native at scale special presentation with Platform nine. Really unpacking super cloud Arlon open source and how to run large scale applications on the cloud, Cloud native develop for developers. And John Feer with the cube. Thanks for Washington. We'll stay tuned for another great segment coming right up.

>>Welcome back everyone, to the special presentation of Cloud Native at scale, the Cube and Platform nine special presentation going in and digging into the next generation super cloud infrastructure as code and the future of application development. We're here with Bickley, who's the chief architect and co-founder of Platform nine Pick. Great to see you Cube alumni. We, we met at an OpenStack event in about eight years ago, or well later, earlier when OpenStack was going. Great to see you and great to see congratulations on the success of Platform nine. Thank >>You very much. >>Yeah. You guys have been at this for a while and this is really the, the, the year we're seeing the, the crossover of Kubernetes because of what happens with containers. Everyone now has realized, and you've seen what Docker's doing with the new docker, the open source, Docker now just the success of containerization, right? And now the Kubernetes layer that we've been working on for years is coming, Bearing fruit. This is huge. >>Exactly. Yes. >>And so as infrastructures code comes in, we talked to Basco talking about Super Cloud. I met her about, you know, the new Arlon, our R lawn, and you guys just launched the infrastructures code is going to another level, and then it's always been DevOps infrastructures code. That's been the ethos that's been like from day one, developers just code. Then you saw the rise of serverless and you see now multi-cloud or on the horizon. Connect the dots for us. What is the state of infrastructures code today? >>So I think, I think I'm, I'm glad you mentioned it. Everybody or most people know about infrastructures code, but with Kubernetes, I think that project has evolved at the concept even further. And these dates, it's infrastructure is configuration, right? So, which is an evolution of infrastructure as code. So instead of telling the system, here's how I want my infrastructure by telling it, you know, do step A, B, C, and D. Instead, with Kubernetes you can describe your desired state declaratively using things called manifest resources. And then the system kind of magically figures it out and tries to converge the state towards the one that you specified. So I think it's, it's a even better version of infrastructures code. Yeah, >>Yeah. And that really means it developer just accessing resources. Okay, not clearing, Okay, give me some compute. Stand me up some, Turn the lights on, turn 'em off, turn 'em on. That's kind of where we see this going. And I like the configuration piece. Some people say composability, I mean, now with open source, so popular, you don't have to have to write a lot of code, this code being developed. And so it's integration, it's configuration. These are areas that we're starting to see computer science principles around automation, machine learning, assisting open source. Cuz you've got a lot of code that's right in hearing software, supply chain issues. So infrastructure as code has to factor in these, these new dynamics. Can you share your opinion on these new dynamics of, as open source grows, the glue layers, the configurations, the integration, what are the core issues? >>I think one of the major core issues is with all that power comes complexity, right? So, you know, despite its expressive power systems like Kubernetes and declarative APIs let you express a lot of complicated and complex stacks, right? But you're dealing with hundreds if not thousands of these yamo files or resources. And so I think, you know, the emergence of systems and layers to help you manage that complexity is becoming a key challenge and opportunity in, in this space. The that's, >>I wrote a LinkedIn post today was comments about, you know, hey, enterprise is a new breed. The trend of SaaS companies moving our consumer comp consumer-like thinking into the enterprise has been happening for a long time, but now more than ever, you're seeing it the old way used to be solve complexity with more complexity and then lock the customer in. Now with open source, it's speed, simplification and integration, right? These are the new dynamic power dynamics for developers. Yeah. So as companies are starting to now deploy and look at Kubernetes, what are the things that need to be in place? Because you have some, I won't say technical debt, but maybe some shortcuts, some scripts here that make it look like infrastructure is code. People have done some things to simulate or or make infrastructure as code happen. Yes. But to do it at scale Yes. Is harder. What's your take on this? What's your view? >>It's hard because there's a per proliferation of methods, tools, technologies. So for example, today it's very common for DevOps and platform engineering tools, I mean, sorry, teams to have to deploy a large number of Kubernetes clusters, but then apply the applications and configurations on top of those clusters. And they're using a wide range of tools to do this, right? For example, maybe Ansible or Terraform or bash scripts to bring up the infrastructure and then the clusters. And then they may use a different set of tools such as Argo CD or other tools to apply configurations and applications on top of the clusters. So you have this sprawl of tools. You, you also have this sprawl of configurations and files because the more objects you're dealing with, the more resources you have to manage. And there's a risk of drift that people call that where, you know, you think you have things under control, but some people from various teams will make changes here and there and then before the end of the day systems break and you have no idea of tracking them. So I think there's real need to kind of unify, simplify, and try to solve these problems using a smaller, more unified set of tools and methodologies. And that's something that we try to do with this new project. Arlon. >>Yeah. So, so we're gonna get into Arlan in a second. I wanna get into the why Arlon. You guys announced that at our GoCon, which was put on here in Silicon Valley at the computer by, in two, where they had their own little day over there at their headquarters. But before we get there, Bacar, your CEO came on and he talked about Super Cloud at our in aural event. What's your definition of super cloud? If you had to kind of explain that to someone at a cocktail party or someone in the industry technical, how would you look at the super cloud trend that's emerging? It's become a thing. What's your, what would be your contribution to that definition or the narrative? >>Well, it's, it's, it's funny because I've actually heard of the term for the first time today, speaking to you earlier today. But I think based on what you said, I I already get kind of some of the, the gist and the, the main concepts. It seems like super cloud, the way I interpret that is, you know, clouds and infrastructure, programmable infrastructure, all of those things are becoming commodity in a way. And everyone's got their own flavor, but there's a real opportunity for people to solve real business problems by perhaps trying to abstract away, you know, all of those various implementations and then building better abstractions that are perhaps business or application specific to help companies and businesses solve real business problems. >>Yeah, I remember that's a great, great definition. I remember, not to date myself, but back in the old days, you know, IBM had a proprietary network operating system. So the deck for the mini computer vendors, deck net and SNA respectively. But T C P I P came out of the osi, the open systems interconnect and remember, ethernet beat token ring out. So not to get all nerdy for all the young kids out there, look, just look up token ring, you'll see, you've probably never heard of it. It's IBM's, you know, connection for the internet at the, the layer two is Amazon, the ethernet, right? So if T C P I P could be the Kubernetes and the container abstraction that made the industry completely change at that point in history. So at every major inflection point where there's been serious industry change and wealth creation and business value, there's been an abstraction Yes. Somewhere. Yes. What's your reaction to that? >>I think this is, I think a saying that's been heard many times in this industry and, and I forgot who originated it, but I think the saying goes like, there's no problem that can't be solved with another layer of indirection, right? And we've seen this over and over and over again where Amazon and its peers have inserted this layer that has simplified, you know, computing and, and infrastructure management. And I believe this trend is going to continue, right? The next set of problems are going to be solved with these insertions of additional abstraction layers. I think that that's really a, yeah, >>It's >>Gonna >>Continue. It's interesting. I just, when I wrote another post today on LinkedIn called the Silicon Wars AMD stock is down arm has been on a rise. We've remember pointing for many years now, that arm's gonna be hugely, it has become true. If you look at the success of the infrastructure as a service layer across the clouds, Azure, aws, Amazon's clearly way ahead of everybody. The stuff that they're doing with the silicon and the physics and the, the atoms, the pro, you know, this is where the innovation, they're going so deep and so strong at ISAs, the more that they get that gets come on, they have more performance. So if you're an app developer, wouldn't you want the best performance and you'd wanna have the best abstraction layer that gives you the most ability to do infrastructures, code or infrastructure for configuration, for provisioning, for managing services. And you're seeing that today with service MeSHs, a lot of action going on in the service mesh area in in this community of, of co con, which will be a covering. So that brings up the whole what's next? You guys just announced our lawn at ar GoCon, which came out of Intuit. We've had Mariana Tessel at our super cloud event. She's the cto, you know, they're all in the cloud. So they contributed that project. Where did Arlon come from? What was the origination? What's the purpose? Why our lawn, why this announcement? >>Yeah, so the, the inception of the project, this was the result of us realizing that problem that we spoke about earlier, which is complexity, right? With all of this, these clouds, these infrastructure, all the variations around and, you know, compute storage networks and the proliferation of tools we talked about the Ansibles and Terraforms and Kubernetes itself, you can think of that as another tool, right? We saw a need to solve that complexity problem, and especially for people and users who use Kubernetes at scale. So when you have, you know, hundreds of clusters, thousands of applications, thousands of users spread out over many, many locations, there, there needs to be a system that helps simplify that management, right? So that means fewer tools, more expressive ways of describing the state that you want and more consistency. And, and that's why, you know, we built Arlan and we built it recognizing that many of these problems or sub problems have already been solved. So Arlon doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, it instead rests on the shoulders of several giants, right? So for example, Kubernetes is one building block, GI ops, and Argo CD is another one, which provides a very structured way of applying configuration. And then we have projects like cluster API and cross plane, which provide APIs for describing infrastructure. So arlon takes all of those building blocks and builds a thin layer, which gives users a very expressive way of defining configuration and desired state. So that's, that's kind of the inception of, >>And what's the benefit of that? What does that give the, what does that give the developer, the user, in this case, >>The developers, the, the platform engineer, team members, the DevOps engineers, they get a a ways to provision not just infrastructure and clusters, but also applications and configurations. They get a way, a system for provisioning, configuring, deploying, and doing life cycle management in a, in a much simpler way. Okay. Especially as I said, if you're dealing with a large number of applications. >>So it's like an operating fabric, if you will. Yes. For them. Okay, So let's get into what that means for up above and below the, the, this abstraction or thin layer below as the infrastructure. We talked a lot about what's going on below that. Yeah. Above our workloads. At the end of the day, you know, I talk to CXOs and IT folks that, that are now DevOps engineers. They care about the workloads and they want the infrastructure's code to work. They wanna spend their time getting in the weeds, figuring out what happened when someone made a push that that happened or something happened. They need observability and they need to, to know that it's working. That's right. And here's my workloads running effectively. So how do you guys look at the workload side of it? Cuz now you have multiple workloads on these fabric, right? >>So workloads, so Kubernetes has defined kind of a standard way to describe workloads. And you can, you know, tell Kubernetes, I want to run this container this particular way, or you can use other projects that are in the Kubernetes cloud native ecosystem, like K native, where you can express your application in more at a higher level, right? But what's also happening is in addition to the workloads, DevOps and platform engineering teams, they need to very often deploy the applications with the clusters themselves. Clusters are becoming this commodity. It's, it's becoming this host for the application and it kind of comes bundled with it. In many cases, it's like an appliance, right? So DevOps teams have to provision clusters at a really incredible rate and they need to tear them down. Clusters are becoming more, >>It's coming like an EC two instance, spin up a cluster. We've heard people used words like that. That's >>Right. And before arlon, you kind of had to do all of that using a different set of tools as, as I explained. So with Arlon you can kind of express everything together. You can say, I want a cluster with a health monitoring stack and a logging stack and this ingress controller and I want these applications and these security policies. You can describe all of that using something we call a profile. And then you can stamp out your app, your applications, and your clusters and manage them in a very, So >>It's essentially standard, like creates a mechanism. Exactly. Standardized, declarative kind of configurations. And it's like a playbook, deploy it. Now what's there is between say a script like I have scripts, I can just automate scripts >>Or yes, this is where that declarative API and infrastructures configuration comes in, right? Because scripts, yes, you can automate scripts, but the order in which they run matters, right? They can break, things can break in the middle and, and sometimes you need to debug them. Whereas the declarative way is much more expressive and powerful. You just tell the system what you want and then the system kind of figures it out. And there are these things about controllers, which will in the background reconcile all the state to converge towards your desire. It's a much more powerful, expressive and reliable way of getting things done. >>So infrastructure has configuration is built kind of on its super set of infrastructures code because it's an evolution. You need edge retro's code, but then you can configure the code by just saying do it. You basically declaring it saying Go, go do that. That's right. Okay, So, all right, so Cloudnative at scale, take me through your vision of what that means. Someone says, Hey, what does cloudnative at scale mean? What's success look like? How does it roll out in the future as you, not future next couple years? I mean, people are now starting to figure out, okay, it's not as easy as it sounds. Kubernetes has value. We're gonna hear this year at co con a lot of this, what does cloud native at scale >>Mean? Yeah, there are different interpretations, but if you ask me, when people think of scale, they think of a large number of deployments, right? Geographies, many, you know, supporting thousands or tens or millions of, of users. There, there's that aspect to scale. There's also an equally important a aspect of scale, which is also something that we, we try to address with Arlan. And that is just complexity for the people operating this or configuring this, right? So in order to describe that desired state, and in order to perform things like maybe upgrades or updates on a very large scale, you want the humans behind that to be able to express and direct the system to do that in, in relatively simple terms, right? And so we want the tools and the abstractions and the mechanisms available to the user to be as powerful but as simple as possible. So there's, I think there's gonna be a number and there have been a number of CNCF and cloud native projects that are trying to attack that complexity problem as well. And Arlon kind of falls in in that >>Category. Okay, So I'll put you on the spot road that Coan coming up, and obviously this will be shipping this segment series out before. What do you expect to see at Coan this year? What's the big story this year? What's the, what's the most important thing happening? Is it in the open source community and also within a lot of the, the people jocking for leadership. I know there's a lot of projects and still there's some white space in the overall systems map about the different areas get run time and there's their ability in all these different areas. What's the, where's the action? Where, where's the smoke? Where's the fire? Where's the piece? Where's the tension? >>Yeah, so I think one thing that has been happening over the past couple of cub cons and I expect to continue, and, and that is the, the word on the street is Kubernetes is getting boring, right? Which is good, right? >>Boring means simple. >>Well, well >>Maybe, >>Yeah, >>Invisible, >>No drama, right? So, so the, the rate of change of the Kubernetes features and, and all that has slowed, but in, in a, in a positive way. But there's still a general sentiment and feeling that there's just too much stuff. If you look at a stack necessary for hosting applications based on Kubernetes, there're just still too many moving parts, too many components, right? Too much complexity. I go, I keep going back to the complexity problem. So I expect Cube Con and all the vendors and the players and the startups and the people there to continue to focus on that complexity problem and introduce further simplifications to, to the stack. Yeah. >>B, you've had a storied career VMware over decades with them, obviously with 12 years, with 14 years or something like that. Big number. Co-founder here, a platform. Now you guys been around for a while at this game. We, man, we talked about OpenStack, that project you, we interviewed at one of their events. So OpenStack was the beginning of that, this new revolution. And I remember the early days it was, it wasn't supposed to be an alternative to Amazon, but it was a way to do more cloud cloud native. I think we had a cloud a Rod team at that time. We to joke we, you know, about, about the dream. It's happening now, now at Platform nine. You guys have been doing this for a while. What's the, what are you most excited about as the chief architect? What did you guys double down on? What did you guys pivot from or two, did you do any pivots? Did you extend out certain areas? Cuz you guys are in a good position right now, a lot of DNA in Cloud native. What are you most excited about and what does Platform nine bring to the table for customers and for people in the industry watching this? >>Yeah, so I think our mission really hasn't changed over the years, right? It's been always about taking complex open source software because open source software, it's powerful. It solves new problems, you know, every year and you have new things coming out all the time, right? OpenStack was an example where the Kubernetes took the world by storm. But there's always that complexity of, you know, just configuring it, deploying it, running it, operating it. And our mission has always been that we will take all that complexity and just make it, you know, easy for users to consume regardless of the technology, right? So the successor to Kubernetes, you know, I don't have a crystal ball, but you know, you have some indications that people are coming up of new and simpler ways of running applications. There are many projects around there who knows what's coming next year or the year after that. But platform will a, platform nine will be there and we will, you know, take the innovations from the, the, the community. We will contribute our own innovations and make all of those things very consumable to customers. >>Simpler, faster, cheaper. Exactly. Always a good business model technically to make that happen. Yeah, I think the reigning in the chaos is key, you know, Now we have now visibility into the scale. Final question before we depart this segment. What is at scale, how many clusters do you see that would be a, a watermark for an at scale conversation around an enterprise? Is it workloads we're looking at or, or clusters? How would you Yeah, how would you describe that? When people try to squint through and evaluate what's a scale, what's the at scale kind of threshold? >>Yeah. And, and the number of clusters doesn't tell the whole story because clusters can be small in terms of the number of nodes or they can be large. But roughly speaking when we say, you know, large scale cluster deployments, we're talking about maybe hundreds, two thousands. >>Yeah. And final final question, what's the role of the hyperscalers? You got AWS continuing to do well, but they got their core ias, they got a PAs, they're not too too much putting a SaaS out there. They have some SaaS apps, but mostly it's the ecosystem. They have marketplaces doing over $2 billion tran billions of transactions a year and, and it's just like, just sitting there. It hasn't really, they're now innovating on it, but that's gonna change ecosystems. What's the role the cloud play in the cloud need of its scale? >>The, the hyperscalers? >>Yeah. A's Azure, Google >>You mean from a business perspective, technical, they're, they have their own interests that, you know, that they're, they will keep catering to, they, they will continue to find ways to lock their users into their ecosystem of services and, and APIs. So I don't think that's gonna change, right? They're just gonna keep >>Well, they got great I performance, I mean from a, from a hardware standpoint, yes. That's gonna be key, right? >>Yes. I think the, the move from X 86 being the dominant way and platform to run workloads is changing, right? That, that, that, that, and I think the, the hyperscalers really want to be in the game in terms of, you know, the, the new risk and arm ecosystems and, and platforms. >>Yeah. Not joking aside, Paul Morritz, when he was the CEO of VMware, when he took over once said, and I remember our first year doing the cube, Oh, the cloud is one big distributed computer. It's, it's hardware and you got software and you got middleware and he kind of over, well he's kind of tongue in cheek, but really you're talking about large compute and sets of services that is essentially a distributed computer. >>Yes, >>Exactly. It's, we're back in the same game. Vic, thank you for coming on the segment. Appreciate your time. This is cloud native at scale special presentation with Platform nine. Really unpacking super Cloud Arlon open source and how to run large scale applications on the cloud. Cloud Native Phil for developers and John Furrier with the cube. Thanks for Washington. We'll stay tuned for another great segment coming right up.

>>Hello, welcome to the Cube here in Palo Alto, California for a special presentation on Cloud native at scale, enabling super cloud modern applications with Platform nine. I'm John Furr, your host of The Cube. We had a great lineup of three interviews we're streaming today. Meor Ma Makowski, who's the co-founder and VP of Product of Platform nine. She's gonna go into detail around Arlon, the open source products, and also the value of what this means for infrastructure as code and for cloud native at scale. Bickley the chief architect of Platform nine Cube alumni. Going back to the OpenStack days. He's gonna go into why Arlon, why this infrastructure as code implication, what it means for customers and the implications in the open source community and where that value is. Really great wide ranging conversation there. And of course, Vascar, Gort, the CEO of Platform nine, is gonna talk with me about his views on Super Cloud and why Platform nine has a scalable solutions to bring cloudnative at scale. So enjoy the program. See you soon. Hello everyone. Welcome to the cube here in Palo Alto, California for special program on cloud native at scale, enabling next generation cloud or super cloud for modern application cloud native developers. I'm John Furry, host of the Cube. A pleasure to have here, me Makoski, co-founder and VP of product at Platform nine. Thanks for coming in today for this Cloudnative at scale conversation. Thank >>You for having me. >>So Cloudnative at scale, something that we're talking about because we're seeing the, the next level of mainstream success of containers Kubernetes and cloud native develop, basically DevOps in the C I C D pipeline. It's changing the landscape of infrastructure as code, it's accelerating the value proposition and the super cloud as we call it, has been getting a lot of traction because this next generation cloud is looking a lot different, but kind of the same as the first generation. What's your view on super cloud as it fits to cloud native as scales up? >>Yeah, you know, I think what's interesting, and I think the reason why Super Cloud is a really good, in a really fit term for this, and I think, I know my CEO was chatting with you as well, and he was mentioning this as well, but I think there needs to be a different term than just multi-cloud or cloud. And the reason is because as cloud native and cloud deployments have scaled, I think we've reached a point now where instead of having the traditional data center style model where you have a few large distributions of infrastructure and workload at a few locations, I think the model is kind of flipped around, right? Where you have a large number of microsites, these microsites could be your public cloud deployment, your private on-prem infrastructure deployments, or it could be your edge environment, right? And every single enterprise, every single industry is moving in that direction. And so you gotta rougher that with a terminology that, that, that indicates the scale and complexity of it. And so I think supercloud is a, is an appropriate term for that. >>So you brought a couple of things I want to dig into. You mentioned edge nodes. We're seeing not only edge nodes being the next kind of area of innovation, mainly because it's just popping up everywhere. And that's just the beginning. Wouldn't even know what's around the corner. You got buildings, you got iot, ot, and IT kind of coming together, but you also got this idea of regions, global infras infrastructures, big part of it. I just saw some news around CloudFlare shutting down a site here. There's policies being made at scale, These new challenges there. Can you share because you can have edge. So hybrid cloud is a winning formula. Everybody knows that it's a steady state. Yeah. But across multiple clouds brings in this new un engineered area, yet it hasn't been done yet. Spanning clouds. People say they're doing it, but you start to see the toe in the water, it's happening, it's gonna happen. It's only gonna get accelerated with the edge and beyond globally. So I have to ask you, what is the technical challenges in doing this? Because there's something business consequences as well, but there are technical challenges. Can you share your view on what the technical challenges are for the super cloud or across multiple edges and regions? >>Yeah, absolutely. So I think, you know, in in the context of this, the, this, this term of super cloud, I think it's sometimes easier to visualize things in terms of two access, right? I think on one end you can think of the scale in terms of just pure number of nodes that you have deploy a number of clusters in the Kubernetes space. And then on the other axis you would have your distribution factor, right? Which is, do you have these tens of thousands of nodes in one site or do you have them distributed across tens of thousands of sites with one node at each site? Right? And if you have just one flavor of this, there is enough complexity, but potentially manageable. But when you are expanding on both these access, you really get to a point where that scale really needs some well thought out, well structured solutions to address it, right? A combination of homegrown tooling along with your, you know, favorite distribution of Kubernetes is not a strategy that can help you in this environment. It may help you when you have one of this or when you, when you scale, is not at the level. >>Can you scope the complexity? Because I mean, I hear a lot of moving parts going on there, the technology's also getting better. We we're seeing cloud native become successful. There's a lot to configure, there's a lot to install. Can you scope the scale of the problem? Because we're talking about at scale Yep. Challenges here. Yeah, >>Absolutely. And I think, you know, I I like to call it, you know, the, the, the problem that the scale creates, you know, there's various problems, but I think one, one problem, one way to think about it is, is, you know, it works on my cluster problem, right? So I, you know, I come from engineering background and there's a, you know, there's a famous saying between engineers and QA and the support folks, right? Which is, it works on my laptop, which is I tested this chain, everything was fantastic, it worked flawlessly on my machine, on production, It's not working. The exact same problem now happens and these distributed environments, but at massive scale, right? Which is that, you know, developers test their applications, et cetera within the sanctity of their sandbox environments. But once you expose that change in the wild world of your production deployment, right? >>And the production deployment could be going at the radio cell tower at the edge location where a cluster is running there, or it could be sending, you know, these applications and having them run at my customer site where they might not have configured that cluster exactly the same way as I configured it, or they configured the cluster, right? But maybe they didn't deploy the security policies, or they didn't deploy the other infrastructure plugins that my app relies on. All of these various factors are their own layer of complexity. And there really isn't a simple way to solve that today. And that is just, you know, one example of an issue that happens. I think another, you know, whole new ball game of issues come in the context of security, right? Because when you are deploying applications at scale in a distributed manner, you gotta make sure someone's job is on the line to ensure that the right security policies are enforced regardless of that scale factor. So I think that's another example of problems that occur. >>Okay. So I have to ask about scale, because there are a lot of multiple steps involved when you see the success of cloud native. You know, you see some, you know, some experimentation. They set up a cluster, say it's containers and Kubernetes, and then you say, Okay, we got this, we can figure it. And then they do it again and again, they call it day two. Some people call it day one, day two operation, whatever you call it. Once you get past the first initial thing, then you gotta scale it. Then you're seeing security breaches, you're seeing configuration errors. This seems to be where the hotspot is in when companies transition from, I got this to, Oh no, it's harder than I thought at scale. Can you share your reaction to that and how you see this playing out? >>Yeah, so, you know, I think it's interesting. There's multiple problems that occur when, you know, the two factors of scale, as we talked about, start expanding. I think one of them is what I like to call the, you know, it, it works fine on my cluster problem, which is back in, when I was a developer, we used to call this, it works on my laptop problem, which is, you know, you have your perfectly written code that is operating just fine on your machine, your sandbox environment. But the moment it runs production, it comes back with p zeros and pos from support teams, et cetera. And those issues can be really difficult to triage us, right? And so in the Kubernetes environment, this problem kind of multi folds, it goes, you know, escalates to a higher degree because you have your sandbox developer environments, they have their clusters and things work perfectly fine in those clusters because these clusters are typically handcrafted or a combination of some scripting and handcrafting. >>And so as you give that change to then run at your production edge location, like say your radio cell tower site, or you hand it over to a customer to run it on their cluster, they might not have not have configured that cluster exactly how you did, or they might not have configured some of the infrastructure plugins. And so the things don't work. And when things don't work, triaging them becomes nightmarishly hard, right? It's just one of the examples of the problem, another whole bucket of issues is security, which is, is you have these distributed clusters at scale, you gotta ensure someone's job is on the line to make sure that these security policies are configured properly. >>So this is a huge problem. I love that comment. That's not not happening on my system. It's the classic, you know, debugging mentality. Yeah. But at scale it's hard to do that with error prone. I can see that being a problem. And you guys have a solution you're launching. Can you share what Arlon is this new product? What is it all about? Talk about this new introduction. >>Yeah, absolutely. Very, very excited. You know, it's one of the projects that we've been working on for some time now because we are very passionate about this problem and just solving problems at scale in on-prem or at in the cloud or at edge environments. And what arlon is, it's an open source project, and it is a tool, it's a Kubernetes native tool for complete end to end management of not just your clusters, but your clusters. All of the infrastructure that goes within and along the site of those clusters, security policies, your middleware, plug-ins, and finally your applications. So what our LA you do in a nutshell is in a declarative way, it lets you handle the configuration and management of all of these components in at scale. >>So what's the elevator pitch simply put for what dissolves in, in terms of the chaos you guys are reigning in, what's the, what's the bumper sticker? Yeah, what >>Would it do? There's a perfect analogy that I love to reference in this context, which is think of your assembly line, you know, in a traditional, let's say, you know, an auto manufacturing factory or et cetera, and the level of efficiency at scale that that assembly line brings, right? Our line, and if you look at the logo we've designed, it's this funny little robot. And it's because when we think of online, we think of these enterprise large scale environments, you know, sprawling at scale, creating chaos because there isn't necessarily a well thought through, well structured solution that's similar to an assembly line, which is taking each component, you know, addressing them, manufacturing, processing them in a standardized way, then handing to the next stage. But again, it gets, you know, processed in a standardized way. And that's what arlon really does. That's like the deliver pitch. If you have problems of scale of managing your infrastructure, you know, that is distributed. Arlon brings the assembly line level of efficiency and consistency for >>Those. So keeping it smooth, the assembly on things are flowing. See c i CD pipe pipelining. Exactly. So that's what you're trying to simplify that ops piece for the developer. I mean, it's not really ops, it's their ops, it's coding. >>Yeah. Not just developer, the ops, the operations folks as well, right? Because developers, you know, there is, developers are responsible for one picture of that layer, which is my apps, and then maybe that middleware of applications that they interface with, but then they hand it over to someone else who's then responsible to ensure that these apps are secure properly, that they are logging, logs are being collected properly, monitoring and observability integrated. And so it solves problems for both >>Those teams. Yeah. It's DevOps. So the DevOps is the cloud needed developer's. That's right. The option teams have to kind of set policies. Is that where the declarative piece comes in? Is that why that's important? >>Absolutely. Yeah. And, and, and, and you know, ES really in introduced or elevated this declarative management, right? Because, you know, s clusters are Yeah. Or your, yeah, you know, specifications of components that go in Kubernetes are defined a declarative way, and Kubernetes always keeps that state consistent with your defined state. But when you go outside of that world of a single cluster, and when you actually talk about defining the clusters or defining everything that's around it, there really isn't a solution that does that today. And so Arlon addresses that problem at the heart of it, and it does that using existing open source well known solutions. >>And do I want to get into the benefits? What's in it for me as the customer developer? But I want to finish this out real quick and get your thoughts. You mentioned open source. Why open source? What's the, what's the current state of the product? You run the product group over at Platform nine, is it open source? And you guys have a product that's commercial? Can you explain the open source dynamic? And first of all, why open source? Yeah. And what is the consumption? I mean, open source is great, People want open source, they can download it, look up the code, but maybe wanna buy the commercial. So I'm assuming you have that thought through, can you share open source and commercial relationship? >>Yeah, I think, you know, starting with why open source? I think it's, you know, we as a company, we have, you know, one of the things that's absolutely critical to us is that we take mainstream open source technologies components and then we, you know, make them available to our customers at scale through either a SaaS model or on-prem model, right? But, so as we are a company or startup or a company that benefits, you know, in a massive way by this open source economy, it's only right, I think in my mind that we do our part of the duty, right? And contribute back to the community that feeds us. And so, you know, we have always held that strongly as one of our principles. And we have, you know, created and built independent products starting all the way with fision, which was a serverless product, you know, that we had built to various other, you know, examples that I can give. But that's one of the main reasons why opensource and also open source, because we want the community to really firsthand engage with us on this problem, which is very difficult to achieve if your product is behind a wall, you know, behind, behind a block box. >>Well, and that's, that's what the developers want too. And what we're seeing in reporting with Super Cloud is the new model of consumption is I wanna look at the code and see what's in there. That's right. And then also, if I want to use it, I'll do it. Great. That's open source, that's the value. But then at the end of the day, if I wanna move fast, that's when people buy in. So it's a new kind of freemium, I guess, business model. I guess that's the way that long. But that's, that's the benefit. Open source. This is why standards and open source is growing so fast. You have that confluence of, you know, a way for developers to try before they buy, but also actually kind of date the application, if you will. We, you know, Adrian Karo uses the dating met metaphor, you know, Hey, you know, I wanna check it out first before I get married. Right? And that's what open source, So this is the new, this is how people are selling. This is not just open source, this is how companies are selling. >>Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think, and you know, two things. I think one is just, you know, this, this, this cloud native space is so vast that if you, if you're building a close flow solution, sometimes there's also a risk that it may not apply to every single enterprises use cases. And so having it open source gives them an opportunity to extend it, expand it, to make it proper to their use case if they choose to do so, right? But at the same time, what's also critical to us is we are able to provide a supported version of it with an SLA that we, you know, that's backed by us, a SAS hosted version of it as well, for those customers who choose to go that route, you know, once they have used the open source version and loved it and want to take it at scale and in production and need, need, need a partner to collaborate with, who can, you know, support them for that production >>Environment. I have to ask you now, let's get into what's in it for the customer. I'm a customer. Yep. Why should I be enthused about Arla? What's in it for me? You know? Cause if I'm not enthused about it, I'm not gonna be confident and it's gonna be hard for me to get behind this. Can you share your enthusiastic view of, you know, why I should be enthused about Arlo? I'm a >>Customer. Yeah, absolutely. And so, and there's multiple, you know, enterprises that we talk to, many of them, you know, our customers, where this is a very kind of typical story that you hear, which is we have, you know, a Kubernetes distribution. It could be on premise, it could be public clouds, native Kubernetes, and then we have our C I C D pipelines that are automating the deployment of applications, et cetera. And then there's this gray zone. And the gray zone is well before you can you, your CS c D pipelines can deploy the apps. Somebody needs to do all of that groundwork of, you know, defining those clusters and yeah. You know, properly configuring them. And as these things, these things start by being done hand grown. And then as the, as you scale, what typically enterprises would do today is they will have their home homegrown DIY solutions for this. >>I mean, the number of folks that I talk to that have built Terra from automation, and then, you know, some of those key developers leave. So it's a typical open source or typical, you know, DIY challenge. And the reason that they're writing it themselves is not because they want to. I mean, of course technology is always interesting to everybody, but it's because they can't find a solution that's out there that perfectly fits the problem. And so that's that pitch. I think Ops FICO would be delighted. The folks that we've talk, you know, spoken with, have been absolutely excited and have, you know, shared that this is a major challenge we have today because we have, you know, few hundreds of clusters on ecos Amazon, and we wanna scale them to few thousands, but we don't think we are ready to do that. And this will give us the >>Ability to, Yeah, I think people are scared. Not sc I won't say scare, that's a bad word. Maybe I should say that they feel nervous because, you know, at scale small mistakes can become large mistakes. This is something that is concerning to enterprises. And, and I think this is gonna come up at co con this year where enterprises are gonna say, Okay, I need to see SLAs. I wanna see track record, I wanna see other companies that have used it. Yeah. How would you answer that question to, or, or challenge, you know, Hey, I love this, but is there any guarantees? Is there any, what's the SLAs? I'm an enterprise, I got tight, you know, I love the open source trying to free fast and loose, but I need hardened code. >>Yeah, absolutely. So, so two parts to that, right? One is Arlan leverages existing open source components, products that are extremely popular. Two specifically. One is Arlan uses Argo cd, which is probably one of the highest and used CD open source tools that's out there. Right's created by folks that are as part of into team now, you know, really brilliant team. And it's used at scale across enterprises. That's one. Second is Alon also makes use of Cluster api cappi, which is a Kubernetes sub-component, right? For lifecycle management of clusters. So there is enough of, you know, community users, et cetera, around these two products, right? Or, or, or open source projects that will find Arlan to be right up in their alley because they're already comfortable, familiar with Argo cd. Now Arlan just extends the scope of what City can do. And so that's one. And then the second part is going back to a point of the comfort. And that's where, you know, platform line has a role to play, which is when you are ready to deploy online at scale, because you've been, you know, playing with it in your DEF test environments, you're happy with what you get with it, then Platform nine will stand behind it and provide that >>Sla. And what's been the reaction from customers you've talked to Platform nine customers with, with that are familiar with, with Argo and then rlo? What's been some of the feedback? >>Yeah, I, I think the feedback's been fantastic. I mean, I can give you examples of customers where, you know, initially, you know, when you are, when you're telling them about your entire portfolio of solutions, it might not strike a card right away. But then we start talking about Arlan and, and we talk about the fact that it uses Argo adn, they start opening up, they say, We have standardized on Argo and we have built these components, homegrown, we would be very interested. Can we co-develop? Does it support these use cases? So we've had that kind of validation. We've had validation all the way at the beginning of our land before we even wrote a single line of code saying this is something we plan on doing. And the customer said, If you had it today, I would've purchased it. So it's been really great validation. >>All right. So next question is, what is the solution to the customer? If I asked you, Look it, I have, I'm so busy, my team's overworked. I got a skills gap. I don't need another project that's, I'm so tied up right now and I'm just chasing my tail. How does Platform nine help me? >>Yeah, absolutely. So I think, you know, one of the core tenets of Platform nine has always been been that we try to bring that public cloud like simplicity by hosting, you know, this in a lot of such similar tools in a SaaS hosted manner for our customers, right? So our goal behind doing that is taking away or trying to take away all of that complexity from customers' hands and offloading it to our hands, right? And giving them that full white glove treatment, as we call it. And so from a customer's perspective, one, something like arlon will integrate with what they have so they don't have to rip and replace anything. In fact, it will, even in the next versions, it may even discover your clusters that you have today and you know, give you an inventory. And that will, >>So if customers have clusters that are growing, that's a sign correct call you guys. >>Absolutely. Either they're, they have massive large clusters, right? That they wanna split into smaller clusters, but they're not comfortable doing that today, or they've done that already on say, public cloud or otherwise. And now they have management challenges. So >>Especially operationalizing the clusters, whether they want to kind of reset everything and remove things around and reconfigure Yep. And or scale out. >>That's right. Exactly. And >>You provide that layer of policy. >>Absolutely. >>Yes. That's the key value here. >>That's right. >>So policy based configuration for cluster scale up, >>Well profile and policy based declarative configuration and lifecycle management for clusters. >>If I asked you how this enables supercloud, what would you say to that? >>I think this is one of the key ingredients to super cloud, right? If you think about a super cloud environment, there's at least few key ingredients that that come to my mind that are really critical. Like they are, you know, life saving ingredients at that scale. One is having a really good strategy for managing that scale, you know, in a, going back to assembly line in a very consistent, predictable way so that our lot solves then you, you need to compliment that with the right kind of observability and monitoring tools at scale, right? Because ultimately issues are gonna happen and you're gonna have to figure out, you know, how to solve them fast. And arlon by the way, also helps in that direction, but you also need observability tools. And then especially if you're running it on the public cloud, you need some cost management tools. In my mind, these three things are like the most necessary ingredients to make Super Cloud successful. And you know, our alarm fills in >>One. Okay. So now the next level is, Okay, that makes sense. Is under the covers kind of speak under the hood. Yeah. How does that impact the app developers and the cloud native modern application workflows? Because the impact to me, seems the apps are gonna be impacted. Are they gonna be faster, stronger? I mean, what's the impact if you do all those things, as you mentioned, what's the impact of the apps? >>Yeah, the impact is that your apps are more likely to operate in production the way you expect them to, because the right checks and balances have gone through, and any discrepancies have been identified prior to those apps, prior to your customer running into them, right? Because developers run into this challenge to their, where there's a split responsibility, right? I'm responsible for my code, I'm responsible for some of these other plugins, but I don't own the stack end to end. I have to rely on my ops counterpart to do their part, right? And so this really gives them, you know, the right tooling for that. >>So this is actually a great kind of relevant point, you know, as cloud becomes more scalable, you're starting to see this fragmentation gone of the days of the full stack developer to the more specialized role. But this is a key point, and I have to ask you because if this RLO solution takes place, as you say, and the apps are gonna be stupid, they're designed to do, the question is, what did does the current pain look like of the apps breaking? What does the signals to the customer Yeah. That they should be calling you guys up into implementing Arlo, Argo and, and all the other goodness to automate? What are some of the signals? Is it downtime? Is it, is it failed apps, Is it latency? What are some of the things that Yeah, absolutely would be indications of things are effed up a little bit. Yeah. >>More frequent down times, down times that are, that take longer to triage. And so you are, you know, the, you know, your mean times on resolution, et cetera, are escalating or growing larger, right? Like we have environments of customers where they're, they have a number of folks on in the field that have to take these apps and run them at customer sites. And that's one of our partners. And they're extremely interested in this because they're the, the rate of failures they're encountering for this, you know, the field when they're running these apps on site, because the field is automating their clusters that are running on sites using their own script. So these are the kinds of challenges, and those are the pain points, which is, you know, if you're looking to reduce your meantime to resolution, if you're looking to reduce the number of failures that occur on your production site, that's one. And second, if you are looking to manage these at scale environments with a relatively small, focused, nimble ops team, which has an immediate impact on your budget. So those are, those are the signals. >>This is the cloud native at scale situation, the innovation going on. Final thought is your reaction to the idea that if the world goes digital, which it is, and the confluence of physical and digital coming together, and cloud continues to do its thing, the company becomes the application, not where it used to be supporting the business, you know, the back office and the maybe terminals and some PCs and handhelds. Now if technology's running, the business is the business. Yeah. Company's the application. Yeah. So it can't be down. So there's a lot of pressure on, on CSOs and CIOs now and boards is saying, How is technology driving the top line revenue? That's the number one conversation. Yep. Do you see that same thing? >>Yeah. It's interesting. I think there's multiple pressures at the CXO CIO level, right? One is that there needs to be that visibility and clarity and guarantee almost that, you know, that the, the technology that's, you know, that's gonna drive your top line is gonna drive that in a consistent, reliable, predictable manner. And then second, there is the constant pressure to do that while always lowering your costs of doing it, right? Especially when you're talking about, let's say retailers or those kinds of large scale vendors, they many times make money by lowering the amount that they spend on, you know, providing those goods to their end customers. So I think those, both those factors kind of come into play and the solution to all of them is usually in a very structured strategy around automation. >>Final question. What does cloudnative at scale look like to you? If all the things happen the way we want 'em to happen, The magic wand, the magic dust, what does it look like? >>What that looks like to me is a CIO sipping at his desk on coffee production is running absolutely smooth. And his, he's running that at a nimble, nimble team size of at the most, a handful of folks that are just looking after things, but things are >>Just taking care of the CIO doesn't exist. There's no ciso, they're at the beach. >>Yep. >>Thank you for coming on, sharing the cloud native at scale here on the cube. Thank you for your time. >>Fantastic. Thanks for >>Having me. Okay. I'm John Fur here for special program presentation, special programming cloud native at scale, enabling super cloud modern applications with Platform nine. Thanks for watching. Welcome back everyone to the special presentation of cloud native at scale, the cube and platform nine special presentation going in and digging into the next generation super cloud infrastructure as code and the future of application development. We're here with Bickley, who's the chief architect and co-founder of Platform nine Pick. Great to see you Cube alumni. We, we met at an OpenStack event in about eight years ago, or later, earlier when OpenStack was going. Great to see you and great to see congratulations on the success of platform nine. >>Thank you very much. >>Yeah. You guys have been at this for a while and this is really the, the, the year we're seeing the, the crossover of Kubernetes because of what happens with containers. Everyone now has realized, and you've seen what Docker's doing with the new docker, the open source Docker now just the success Exactly. Of containerization, right? And now the Kubernetes layer that we've been working on for years is coming, bearing fruit. This is huge. >>Exactly. Yes. >>And so as infrastructures code comes in, we talked to Bacar talking about Super Cloud, I met her about, you know, the new Arlon, our, our lawn, and you guys just launched the infrastructures code is going to another level, and then it's always been DevOps infrastructures code. That's been the ethos that's been like from day one, developers just code. Then you saw the rise of serverless and you see now multi-cloud or on the horizon, connect the dots for us. What is the state of infrastructure as code today? >>So I think, I think I'm, I'm glad you mentioned it, everybody or most people know about infrastructures code. But with Kubernetes, I think that project has evolved at the concept even further. And these dates, it's infrastructure is configuration, right? So, which is an evolution of infrastructure as code. So instead of telling the system, here's how I want my infrastructure by telling it, you know, do step A, B, C, and D instead with Kubernetes, you can describe your desired state declaratively using things called manifest resources. And then the system kind of magically figures it out and tries to converge the state towards the one that you specified. So I think it's, it's a even better version of infrastructures code. >>Yeah. And that really means it's developer just accessing resources. Okay. That declare, Okay, give me some compute, stand me up some, turn the lights on, turn 'em off, turn 'em on. That's kind of where we see this going. And I like the configuration piece. Some people say composability, I mean now with open source so popular, you don't have to have to write a lot of code, this code being developed. And so it's into integration, it's configuration. These are areas that we're starting to see computer science principles around automation, machine learning, assisting open source. Cuz you got a lot of code that's right in hearing software, supply chain issues. So infrastructure as code has to factor in these new dynamics. Can you share your opinion on these new dynamics of, as open source grows, the glue layers, the configurations, the integration, what are the core issues? >>I think one of the major core issues is with all that power comes complexity, right? So, you know, despite its expressive power systems like Kubernetes and declarative APIs let you express a lot of complicated and complex stacks, right? But you're dealing with hundreds if not thousands of these yamo files or resources. And so I think, you know, the emergence of systems and layers to help you manage that complexity is becoming a key challenge and opportunity in, in this space. >>That's, I wrote a LinkedIn post today was comments about, you know, hey, enterprise is a new breed. The trend of SaaS companies moving our consumer comp consumer-like thinking into the enterprise has been happening for a long time, but now more than ever, you're seeing it the old way used to be solve complexity with more complexity and then lock the customer in. Now with open source, it's speed, simplification and integration, right? These are the new dynamic power dynamics for developers. Yeah. So as companies are starting to now deploy and look at Kubernetes, what are the things that need to be in place? Because you have some, I won't say technical debt, but maybe some shortcuts, some scripts here that make it look like infrastructure is code. People have done some things to simulate or or make infrastructure as code happen. Yes. But to do it at scale Yes. Is harder. What's your take on this? What's your view? >>It's hard because there's a per proliferation of methods, tools, technologies. So for example, today it's very common for DevOps and platform engineering tools, I mean, sorry, teams to have to deploy a large number of Kubernetes clusters, but then apply the applications and configurations on top of those clusters. And they're using a wide range of tools to do this, right? For example, maybe Ansible or Terraform or bash scripts to bring up the infrastructure and then the clusters. And then they may use a different set of tools such as Argo CD or other tools to apply configurations and applications on top of the clusters. So you have this sprawl of tools. You, you also have this sprawl of configurations and files because the more objects you're dealing with, the more resources you have to manage. And there's a risk of drift that people call that where, you know, you think you have things under control, but some people from various teams will make changes here and there and then before the end of the day systems break and you have no idea of tracking them. So I think there's real need to kind of unify, simplify, and try to solve these problems using a smaller, more unified set of tools and methodologies. And that's something that we try to do with this new project. Arlon. >>Yeah. So, so we're gonna get into Arlan in a second. I wanna get into the why Arlon. You guys announced that at AR GoCon, which was put on here in Silicon Valley at the, at the community meeting by in two, they had their own little day over there at their headquarters. But before we get there, vascar, your CEO came on and he talked about Super Cloud at our in AAL event. What's your definition of super cloud? If you had to kind of explain that to someone at a cocktail party or someone in the industry technical, how would you look at the super cloud trend that's emerging? It's become a thing. What's your, what would be your contribution to that definition or the narrative? >>Well, it's, it's, it's funny because I've actually heard of the term for the first time today, speaking to you earlier today. But I think based on what you said, I I already get kind of some of the, the gist and the, the main concepts. It seems like super cloud, the way I interpret that is, you know, clouds and infrastructure, programmable infrastructure, all of those things are becoming commodity in a way. And everyone's got their own flavor, but there's a real opportunity for people to solve real business problems by perhaps trying to abstract away, you know, all of those various implementations and then building better abstractions that are perhaps business or applications specific to help companies and businesses solve real business problems. >>Yeah, I remember that's a great, great definition. I remember, not to date myself, but back in the old days, you know, IBM had a proprietary network operating system, so of deck for the mini computer vendors, deck net and SNA respectively. But T C P I P came out of the osi, the open systems interconnect and remember, ethernet beat token ring out. So not to get all nerdy for all the young kids out there, look, just look up token ring, you'll see, you've probably never heard of it. It's IBM's, you know, connection for the internet at the, the layer two is Amazon, the ethernet, right? So if T C P I P could be the Kubernetes and the container abstraction that made the industry completely change at that point in history. So at every major inflection point where there's been serious industry change and wealth creation and business value, there's been an abstraction Yes. Somewhere. Yes. What's your reaction to that? >>I think this is, I think a saying that's been heard many times in this industry and, and I forgot who originated it, but I think that the saying goes like, there's no problem that can't be solved with another layer of indirection, right? And we've seen this over and over and over again where Amazon and its peers have inserted this layer that has simplified, you know, computing and, and infrastructure management. And I believe this trend is going to continue, right? The next set of problems are going to be solved with these insertions of additional abstraction layers. I think that that's really a, yeah, it's gonna >>Continue. It's interesting. I just, when I wrote another post today on LinkedIn called the Silicon Wars AMD stock is down arm has been on a rise. We remember pointing for many years now that arm's gonna be hugely, it has become true. If you look at the success of the infrastructure as a service layer across the clouds, Azure, aws, Amazon's clearly way ahead of everybody. The stuff that they're doing with the silicon and the physics and the, the atoms, the pro, you know, this is where the innovation, they're going so deep and so strong at ISAs, the more that they get that gets come on, they have more performance. So if you're an app developer, wouldn't you want the best performance and you'd wanna have the best abstraction layer that gives you the most ability to do infrastructures, code or infrastructure for configuration, for provisioning, for managing services. And you're seeing that today with service MeSHs, a lot of action going on in the service mesh area in in this community of, of co con, which will be a covering. So that brings up the whole what's next? You guys just announced our lawn at Argo Con, which came out of Intuit. We've had Mariana Tessel at our super cloud event. She's the cto, you know, they're all in the cloud. So they contributed that project. Where did Arlon come from? What was the origination? What's the purpose? Why our lawn, why this announcement? >>Yeah, so the, the inception of the project, this was the result of us realizing that problem that we spoke about earlier, which is complexity, right? With all of this, these clouds, these infrastructure, all the variations around and, you know, compute storage networks and the proliferation of tools we talked about the Ansibles and Terraforms and Kubernetes itself. You can, you can think of that as another tool, right? We saw a need to solve that complexity problem, and especially for people and users who use Kubernetes at scale. So when you have, you know, hundreds of clusters, thousands of applications, thousands of users spread out over many, many locations, there, there needs to be a system that helps simplify that management, right? So that means fewer tools, more expressive ways of describing the state that you want and more consistency. And, and that's why, you know, we built our lawn and we built it recognizing that many of these problems or sub problems have already been solved. So Arlon doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, it instead rests on the shoulders of several giants, right? So for example, Kubernetes is one building block, GI ops, and Argo CD is another one, which provides a very structured way of applying configuration. And then we have projects like cluster API and cross plane, which provide APIs for describing infrastructure. So arlon takes all of those building blocks and builds a thin layer, which gives users a very expressive way of defining configuration and desired state. So that's, that's kind of the inception of, And >>What's the benefit of that? What does that give the, what does that give the developer, the user, in this case, >>The developers, the, the platform engineer, team members, the DevOps engineers, they get a a ways to provision not just infrastructure and clusters, but also applications and configurations. They get a way, a system for provisioning, configuring, deploying, and doing life cycle management in a, in a much simpler way. Okay. Especially as I said, if you're dealing with a large number of applications. >>So it's like an operating fabric, if you will. Yes. For them. Okay, so let's get into what that means for up above and below the the, this abstraction or thin layer below as the infrastructure. We talked a lot about what's going on below that. Yeah. Above our workloads. At the end of the day, you know, I talk to CXOs and IT folks that are now DevOps engineers. They care about the workloads and they want the infrastructures code to work. They wanna spend their time getting in the weeds, figuring out what happened when someone made a push that that happened or something happened. They need observability and they need to, to know that it's working. That's right. And is my workloads running effectively? So how do you guys look at the workload side of it? Cuz now you have multiple workloads on these fabric, >>Right? So workloads, so Kubernetes has defined kind of a standard way to describe workloads and you can, you know, tell Kubernetes, I want to run this container this particular way, or you can use other projects that are in the Kubernetes cloud native ecosystem like K native, where you can express your application in more at a higher level, right? But what's also happening is in addition to the workloads, DevOps and platform engineering teams, they need to very often deploy the applications with the clusters themselves. Clusters are becoming this commodity. It's, it's becoming this host for the application and it kind of comes bundled with it. In many cases it is like an appliance, right? So DevOps teams have to provision clusters at a really incredible rate and they need to tear them down. Clusters are becoming more, >>It's kinda like an EC two instance, spin up a cluster. We very, people used words like that. That's >>Right. And before arlon you kind of had to do all of that using a different set of tools as, as I explained. So with Armon you can kind of express everything together. You can say I want a cluster with a health monitoring stack and a logging stack and this ingress controller and I want these applications and these security policies. You can describe all of that using something we call a profile. And then you can stamp out your app, your applications and your clusters and manage them in a very, so >>Essentially standard creates a mechanism. Exactly. Standardized, declarative kind of configurations. And it's like a playbook. You deploy it. Now what's there is between say a script like I'm, I have scripts, I could just automate scripts >>Or yes, this is where that declarative API and infrastructures configuration comes in, right? Because scripts, yes you can automate scripts, but the order in which they run matters, right? They can break, things can break in the middle and, and sometimes you need to debug them. Whereas the declarative way is much more expressive and powerful. You just tell the system what you want and then the system kind of figures it out. And there are these things about controllers which will in the background reconcile all the state to converge towards your desire. It's a much more powerful, expressive and reliable way of getting things done. >>So infrastructure has configuration is built kind of on, it's as super set of infrastructures code because it's >>An evolution. >>You need edge's code, but then you can configure the code by just saying do it. You basically declaring and saying Go, go do that. That's right. Okay, so, alright, so cloud native at scale, take me through your vision of what that means. Someone says, Hey, what does cloud native at scale mean? What's success look like? How does it roll out in the future as you, not future next couple years? I mean people are now starting to figure out, okay, it's not as easy as it sounds. Could be nice, it has value. We're gonna hear this year coan a lot of this. What does cloud native at scale >>Mean? Yeah, there are different interpretations, but if you ask me, when people think of scale, they think of a large number of deployments, right? Geographies, many, you know, supporting thousands or tens or millions of, of users there, there's that aspect to scale. There's also an equally important a aspect of scale, which is also something that we try to address with Arran. And that is just complexity for the people operating this or configuring this, right? So in order to describe that desired state and in order to perform things like maybe upgrades or updates on a very large scale, you want the humans behind that to be able to express and direct the system to do that in, in relatively simple terms, right? And so we want the tools and the abstractions and the mechanisms available to the user to be as powerful but as simple as possible. So there's, I think there's gonna be a number and there have been a number of CNCF and cloud native projects that are trying to attack that complexity problem as well. And Arlon kind of falls in in that >>Category. Okay, so I'll put you on the spot road that CubeCon coming up and obviously this will be shipping this segment series out before. What do you expect to see at Coan this year? What's the big story this year? What's the, what's the most important thing happening? Is it in the open source community and also within a lot of the, the people jogging for leadership. I know there's a lot of projects and still there's some white space in the overall systems map about the different areas get run time and there's ability in all these different areas. What's the, where's the action? Where, where's the smoke? Where's the fire? Where's the piece? Where's the tension? >>Yeah, so I think one thing that has been happening over the past couple of cons and I expect to continue and, and that is the, the word on the street is Kubernetes is getting boring, right? Which is good, right? >>Boring means simple. >>Well, well >>Maybe, >>Yeah, >>Invisible, >>No drama, right? So, so the, the rate of change of the Kubernetes features and, and all that has slowed but in, in a, in a positive way. But there's still a general sentiment and feeling that there's just too much stuff. If you look at a stack necessary for hosting applications based on Kubernetes, there are just still too many moving parts, too many components, right? Too much complexity. I go, I keep going back to the complexity problem. So I expect Cube Con and all the vendors and the players and the startups and the people there to continue to focus on that complexity problem and introduce further simplifications to, to the stack. >>Yeah. Vic, you've had an storied career, VMware over decades with them obviously in 12 years with 14 years or something like that. Big number co-founder here at Platform. Now you guys have been around for a while at this game. We, man, we talked about OpenStack, that project you, we interviewed at one of their events. So OpenStack was the beginning of that, this new revolution. And I remember the early days it was, it wasn't supposed to be an alternative to Amazon, but it was a way to do more cloud cloud native. I think we had a cloud ERO team at that time. We would to joke we, you know, about, about the dream. It's happening now, now at Platform nine. You guys have been doing this for a while. What's the, what are you most excited about as the chief architect? What did you guys double down on? What did you guys tr pivot from or two, did you do any pivots? Did you extend out certain areas? Cuz you guys are in a good position right now, a lot of DNA in Cloud native. What are you most excited about and what does Platform nine bring to the table for customers and for people in the industry watching this? >>Yeah, so I think our mission really hasn't changed over the years, right? It's been always about taking complex open source software because open source software, it's powerful. It solves new problems, you know, every year and you have new things coming out all the time, right? OpenStack was an example when the Kubernetes took the world by storm. But there's always that complexity of, you know, just configuring it, deploying it, running it, operating it. And our mission has always been that we will take all that complexity and just make it, you know, easy for users to consume regardless of the technology, right? So the successor to Kubernetes, you know, I don't have a crystal ball, but you know, you have some indications that people are coming up of new and simpler ways of running applications. There are many projects around there who knows what's coming next year or the year after that. But platform will a, platform nine will be there and we will, you know, take the innovations from the the community. We will contribute our own innovations and make all of those things very consumable to customers. >>Simpler, faster, cheaper. Exactly. Always a good business model technically to make that happen. Yes. Yeah, I think the, the reigning in the chaos is key, you know, Now we have now visibility into the scale. Final question before we depart this segment. What is at scale, how many clusters do you see that would be a watermark for an at scale conversation around an enterprise? Is it workloads we're looking at or, or clusters? How would you, Yeah, how would you describe that? When people try to squint through and evaluate what's a scale, what's the at scale kind of threshold? >>Yeah. And, and the number of clusters doesn't tell the whole story because clusters can be small in terms of the number of nodes or they can be large. But roughly speaking when we say, you know, large scale cluster deployments, we're talking about maybe hundreds, two thousands. >>Yeah. And final final question, what's the role of the hyperscalers? You got AWS continuing to do well, but they got their core ias, they got a PAs, they're not too too much putting a SaaS out there. They have some SaaS apps, but mostly it's the ecosystem. They have marketplaces doing over $2 billion billions of transactions a year and, and it's just like, just sitting there. It hasn't really, they're now innovating on it, but that's gonna change ecosystems. What's the role the cloud play in the cloud native of its scale? >>The, the hyperscalers, >>Yeahs Azure, Google. >>You mean from a business perspective? Yeah, they're, they have their own interests that, you know, that they're, they will keep catering to, they, they will continue to find ways to lock their users into their ecosystem of services and, and APIs. So I don't think that's gonna change, right? They're just gonna keep, >>Well they got great I performance, I mean from a, from a hardware standpoint, yes, that's gonna be key, right? >>Yes. I think the, the move from X 86 being the dominant way and platform to run workloads is changing, right? That, that, that, that, and I think the, the hyperscalers really want to be in the game in terms of, you know, the the new risk and arm ecosystems and the platforms. >>Yeah, not joking aside, Paul Morritz, when he was the CEO of VMware, when he took over once said, I remember our first year doing the cube. Oh the cloud is one big distributed computer, it's, it's hardware and he got software and you got middleware and he kind over, well he's kind of tongue in cheek, but really you're talking about large compute and sets of services that is essentially a distributed computer. >>Yes, >>Exactly. It's, we're back on the same game. Vic, thank you for coming on the segment. Appreciate your time. This is cloud native at scale special presentation with Platform nine. Really unpacking super cloud Arlon open source and how to run large scale applications on the cloud Cloud Native Phil for developers and John Furrier with the cube. Thanks for Washington. We'll stay tuned for another great segment coming right up. Hey, welcome back everyone to Super Cloud 22. I'm John Fur, host of the Cuba here all day talking about the future of cloud. Where's it all going? Making it super multi-cloud clouds around the corner and public cloud is winning. Got the private cloud on premise and edge. Got a great guest here, Vascar Gorde, CEO of Platform nine, just on the panel on Kubernetes. An enabler blocker. Welcome back. Great to have you on. >>Good to see you >>Again. So Kubernetes is a blocker enabler by, with a question mark. I put on on that panel was really to discuss the role of Kubernetes. Now great conversation operations is impacted. What's interest thing about what you guys are doing at Platform nine? Is your role there as CEO and the company's position, kind of like the world spun into the direction of Platform nine while you're at the helm? Yeah, right. >>Absolutely. In fact, things are moving very well and since they came to us, it was an insight to call ourselves the platform company eight years ago, right? So absolutely whether you are doing it in public clouds or private clouds, you know, the application world is moving very fast in trying to become digital and cloud native. There are many options for you do on the infrastructure. The biggest blocking factor now is having a unified platform. And that's what we, we come into, >>Patrick, we were talking before we came on stage here about your background and we were gonna talk about the glory days in 2000, 2001, when the first as piece application service providers came out, kind of a SaaS vibe, but that was kind of all kind of cloudlike. >>It wasn't, >>And and web services started then too. So you saw that whole growth. Now, fast forward 20 years later, 22 years later, where we are now, when you look back then to here and all the different cycles, >>I, in fact you, you know, as we were talking offline, I was in one of those ASPs in the year 2000 where it was a novel concept of saying we are providing a software and a capability as a service, right? You sign up and start using it. I think a lot has changed since then. The tooling, the tools, the technology has really skyrocketed. The app development environment has really taken off exceptionally well. There are many, many choices of infrastructure now, right? So I think things are in a way the same but also extremely different. But more importantly now for any company, regardless of size, to be a digital native, to become a digital company is extremely mission critical. It's no longer a nice to have everybody's in the journey somewhere. >>Everyone is going digital transformation here. Even on a so-called downturn recession that's upcoming inflation's here. It's interesting. This is the first downturn in the history of the world where the hyperscale clouds have been pumping on all cylinders as an economic input. And if you look at the tech trends, GDPs down, but not tech. >>Nope. >>Cuz the pandemic showed everyone digital transformation is here and more spend and more growth is coming even in, in tech. So this is a unique factor which proves that that digital transformation's happening and company, every company will need a super cloud. >>Everyone, every company, regardless of size, regardless of location, has to become modernize their infrastructure. And modernizing Infras infrastructure is not just some new servers and new application tools, It's your approach, how you're serving your customers, how you're bringing agility in your organization. I think that is becoming a necessity for every enterprise to survive. >>I wanna get your thoughts on Super Cloud because one of the things Dave Ante and I want to do with Super Cloud and calling it that was we, I, I personally, and I know Dave as well, he can, I'll speak from, he can speak for himself. We didn't like multi-cloud. I mean not because Amazon said don't call things multi-cloud, it just didn't feel right. I mean everyone has multiple clouds by default. If you're running productivity software, you have Azure and Office 365. But it wasn't truly distributed. It wasn't truly decentralized, it wasn't truly cloud enabled. It didn't, it felt like they're not ready for a market yet. Yet public clouds booming on premise. Private cloud and Edge is much more on, you know, more, more dynamic, more real. >>Yeah. I think the reason why we think super cloud is a better term than multi-cloud. Multi-cloud are more than one cloud, but they're disconnected. Okay, you have a productivity cloud, you have a Salesforce cloud, you may have, everyone has an internal cloud, right? So, but they're not connected. So you can say okay, it's more than one cloud. So it's you know, multi-cloud. But super cloud is where you are actually trying to look at this holistically. Whether it is on-prem, whether it is public, whether it's at the edge, it's a store at the branch. You are looking at this as one unit. And that's where we see the term super cloud is more applicable because what are the qualities that you require if you're in a super cloud, right? You need choice of infrastructure, you need, but at the same time you need a single pain, a single platform for you to build your innovations on regardless of which cloud you're doing it on, right? So I think Super Cloud is actually a more tightly integrated orchestrated management philosophy we think. >>So let's get into some of the super cloud type trends that we've been reporting on. Again, the purpose of this event is to, as a pilots, to get the conversations flowing with with the influencers like yourselves who are running companies and building products and the builders, Amazon and Azure are doing extremely well. Google's coming up in third cloudworks in public cloud. We see the use cases on premises use cases. Kubernetes has been an interesting phenomenon because it's become from the developer side a little bit, but a lot of ops people love Kubernetes. It's really more of an ops thing. You mentioned OpenStack earlier. Kubernetes kind of came out of that open stack. We need an orchestration and then containers had a good shot with, with Docker. They re pivoted the company. Now they're all in an open source. So you got containers booming and Kubernetes as a new layer there. What's the, what's the take on that? What does that really mean? Is that a new defacto enabler? It >>Is here. It's for here for sure. Every enterprise somewhere else in the journey is going on. And you know, most companies are, 70 plus percent of them have won two, three container based, Kubernetes based applications now being rolled out. So it's very much here, it is in production at scale by many customers. And the beauty of it is, yes, open source, but the biggest gating factor is the skill set. And that's where we have a phenomenal engineering team, right? So it's, it's one thing to buy a tool >>And just be clear, you're a managed service for Kubernetes. >>We provide, provide a software platform for cloud acceleration as a service and it can run anywhere. It can run in public private. We have customers who do it in truly multi-cloud environments. It runs on the edge, it runs at this in stores are thousands of stores in a retailer. So we provide that and also for specific segments where data sovereignty and data residency are key regulatory reasons. We also un OnPrem as an air gap version. >>Can you give an example on how you guys are deploying your platform to enable a super cloud experience for your >>Customer? Right. So I'll give you two different examples. One is a very large networking company, public networking company. They have, I dunno, hundreds of products, hundreds of r and d teams that are building different, different products. And if you look at few years back, each one was doing it on a different platforms but they really needed to bring the agility and they worked with us now over three years where we are their build test dev pro platform where all their products are built on, right? And it has dramatically increased their agility to release new products. Number two, it actually is a light out operation. In fact the customer says like, like the Maytag service person cuz we provide it as a service and it barely takes one or two people to maintain it for them. >>So it's kinda like an SRE vibe. One person managing a >>Large 4,000 engineers building infrastructure >>On their tools, >>Whatever they want on their tools. They're using whatever app development tools they use, but they use our platform. >>What benefits are they seeing? Are they seeing speed? >>Speed, definitely. Okay. Definitely they're speeding. Speed uniformity because now they're building able to build, so their customers who are using product A and product B are seeing a similar set of tools that are being used. >>So a big problem that's coming outta this super cloud event that we're, we're seeing and we've heard it all here, ops and security teams cuz they're kind of too part of one theme, but ops and security specifically need to catch up speed wise. Are you delivering that value to ops and security? Right. >>So we, we work with ops and security teams and infrastructure teams and we layer on top of that. We have like a platform team. If you think about it, depending on where you have data centers, where you have infrastructure, you have multiple teams, okay, but you need a unified platform. Who's your buyer? Our buyer is usually, you know, the product divisions of companies that are looking at or the CTO would be a buyer for us functionally cio definitely. So it it's, it's somewhere in the DevOps to infrastructure. But the ideal one we are beginning to see now many large corporations are really looking at it as a platform and saying we have a platform group on which any app can be developed and it is run on any infrastructure. So the platform engineering teams, >>You working two sides of that coin. You've got the dev side and then >>And then infrastructure >>Side side, okay. >>Another customer like give you an example, which I would say is kind of the edge of the store. So they have thousands of stores. Retail, retail, you know food retailer, right? They have thousands of stores that are on the globe, 50,000, 60,000. And they really want to enhance the customer experience that happens when you either order the product or go into the store and pick up your product or buy or browse or sit there. They have applications that were written in the nineties and then they have very modern AIML applications today. They want something that will not have to send an IT person to install a rack in the store or they can't move everything to the cloud because the store operations has to be local. The menu changes based on, It's a classic edge. It's classic edge. Yeah. Right. They can't send it people to go install rack access servers then they can't sell software people to go install the software and any change you wanna put through that, you know, truck roll. So they've been working with us where all they do is they ship, depending on the size of the store, one or two or three little servers with instructions that >>You, you say little servers like how big one like a net box box, like a small little >>Box and all the person in the store has to do like what you and I do at home and we get a, you know, a router is connect the power, connect the internet and turn the switch on. And from there we pick it up. >>Yep. >>We provide the operating system, everything and then the applications are put on it. And so that dramatically brings the velocity for them. They manage >>Thousands of them. True plug and play >>Two, plug and play thousands of stores. They manage it centrally. We do it for them, right? So, so that's another example where on the edge then we have some customers who have both a large private presence and one of the public clouds. Okay. But they want to have the same platform layer of orchestration and management that they can use regardless of the location. So >>You guys got some success. Congratulations. Got some traction there. It's awesome. The question I want to ask you is that's come up is what is truly cloud native? Cuz there's lift and shift of the cloud >>That's not cloud native. >>Then there's cloud native. Cloud native seems to be the driver for the super cloud. How do you talk to customers? How do you explain when someone says what's cloud native, what isn't cloud native? >>Right. Look, I think first of all, the best place to look at what is the definition and what are the attributes and characteristics of what is truly a cloud native, is CNC foundation. And I think it's very well documented where you, well >>Con of course Detroit's >>Coming here, so, so it's already there, right? So, so we follow that very closely, right? I think just lifting and shifting your 20 year old application onto a data center somewhere is not cloud native. Okay? You can't put to cloud native, you have to rewrite and redevelop your application and business logic using modern tools. Hopefully more open source and, and I think that's what Cloudnative is and we are seeing a lot of our customers in that journey. Now everybody wants to be cloudnative, but it's not that easy, okay? Because it's, I think it's first of all, skill set is very important. Uniformity of tools that there's so many tools there. Thousands and thousands of tools you could spend your time figuring out which tool to use. Okay? So I think the complexities there, but the business benefits of agility and uniformity and customer experience are truly them. >>And I'll give you an example. I don't know how clear native they are, right? And they're not a customer of ours, but you order pizzas, you do, right? If you just watch the pizza industry, how dominoes actually increase their share and mind share and wallet share was not because they were making better pizzas or not, I don't know anything about that, but the whole experience of how you order, how you watch what's happening, how it's delivered. There were a pioneer in it. To me, those are the kinds of customer experiences that cloud native can provide. >>Being agility and having that flow to the application changes what the expectations of the, for the customer. >>Customer, the customer's expectations change, right? Once you get used to a better customer experience, you learn >>Best car. To wrap it up, I wanna just get your perspective again. One of the benefits of chatting with you here and having you part of the Super Cloud 22 is you've seen many cycles, you have a lot of insights. I want to ask you, given your career where you've been and what you've done and now the CEO platform nine, how would you compare what's happening now with other inflection points in the industry? And you've been, again, you've been an entrepreneur, you sold your company to Oracle, you've been seeing the big companies, you've seen the different waves. What's going on right now put into context this moment in time around Super >>Cloud. Sure. I think as you said, a lot of battles. Cars being been, been in an asp, been in a realtime software company, being in large enterprise software houses and a transformation. I've been on the app side, I did the infrastructure right and then tried to build our own platforms. I've gone through all of this myself with a lot of lessons learned in there. I think this is an event which is happening now for companies to go through to become cloud native and digitalize. If I were to look back and look at some parallels of the tsunami that's going on is a couple of paddles come to me. One is, think of it, which was forced to honors like y2k. Everybody around the world had to have a plan, a strategy, and an execution for y2k. I would say the next big thing was e-commerce. I think e-commerce has been pervasive right across all industries. >>And disruptive. >>And disruptive, extremely disruptive. If you did not adapt and adapt and accelerate your e-commerce initiative, you were, it was an existence question. Yeah. I think we are at that pivotal moment now in companies trying to become digital and cloudnative that know that is what I see >>Happening there. I think that that e-commerce was interesting and I think just to riff with you on that is that it's disrupting and refactoring the business models. I think that is something that's coming out of this is that it's not just completely changing the game, it's just changing how you operate, >>How you think, and how you operate. See, if you think about the early days of eCommerce, just putting up a shopping cart didn't made you an eCommerce or an E retailer or an e e customer, right? Or so. I think it's the same thing now is I think this is a fundamental shift on how you're thinking about your business. How are you gonna operate? How are you gonna service your customers? I think it requires that just lift and shift is not gonna work. >>Mascar, thank you for coming on, spending the time to come in and share with our community and being part of Super Cloud 22. We really appreciate, we're gonna keep this open. We're gonna keep this conversation going even after the event, to open up and look at the structural changes happening now and continue to look at it in the open in the community. And we're gonna keep this going for, for a long, long time as we get answers to the problems that customers are looking for with cloud cloud computing. I'm Sean Feer with Super Cloud 22 in the Cube. Thanks for watching. >>Thank you. Thank you, John. >>Hello. Welcome back. This is the end of our program, our special presentation with Platform nine on cloud native at scale, enabling the super cloud. We're continuing the theme here. You heard the interviews Super Cloud and its challenges, new opportunities around the solutions around like Platform nine and others with Arlon. This is really about the edge situations on the internet and managing the edge multiple regions, avoiding vendor lock in. This is what this new super cloud is all about. The business consequences we heard and and the wide ranging conversations around what it means for open source and the complexity problem all being solved. I hope you enjoyed this program. There's a lot of moving pieces and things to configure with cloud native install, all making it easier for you here with Super Cloud and of course Platform nine contributing to that. Thank you for watching.

>>Hello, everyone. Welcome to the cubes presentation of the 80 startup showcase marketing technology, emerging cloud scale customer experiences. This is season two, episode three of the ongoing series covering the exciting startups from the, a AWS ecosystem to talk about all the top trends and also featuring the key customers. I'm your host, John ER, today we're joined by Louis Fernando, Denise vice president of peak pay social and John Kim, the CEO of Sandberg to learn about the future of what's going on in fostering deeper customer relationships. Gentlemen, thanks for joining us in the cube showcase, >>Excited to be here. >>So John talk about Sendbird real quick set the table for us. What you guys do, you got a customer here to highlight some of the key things you're doing with customers, the value proposition what's Sendbird and what's the showcase about, >>Yeah, I'm really excited to be here. Uh, I'm John founder, C of Sandberg. So Sandberg is the worst leading conversations platform for mobile applications. We can power user to user conversations in mobile applications, as well as the brand to user conversations such as marketing sales and support. So, uh, today we power over quarter billion users on a monthly basis. Uh, we have, you know, through over 300 employees across seven different countries around the world, we work with some of the world's leading, uh, uh, customers such as big pay that we are going to showcase today, along with other, uh, wonderful customers like DoorDash, Reddit, <inaudible> sports and so forth. We have collectively raised over 200 million in funding. Um, so that's kind of where we are today. >>Well, it's always great to have, uh, one great success. Uh, good funding, more important is the customers. And I love showcases where the customers do the talking, because that means you've got some success stories. Louise, talk about, um, are you happy customer? What's it like working with Sandberg? Give us the, give us the scoop. >>So sandbar is being a great partner with us. So pick pay is a Brazilian payment app. We're at a FinTech here with more than 30 million active users using everyday pick pay to pay everything. So the, the, the majority of the payments are between peers, between people. So sandbar is, is helping us to improve a lot this journey to make it more pleasant between every everyone who are using big, big. So we are here, let's talk and it's a >>Pleasure. Yeah, it's awesome. Well, I great to have you guys on great, great relationship. And one of the things we've been talking about on the cube, if the folks watching that know our audience, no we've been banging the, the drum hard on this new world and this new patterns of user expectations and building relationships in this new digital world is not about the old way, the old MarTech way. There are new new use cases, new expectations by the consumers, John, that are, that are bringing up new opportunities, but also expectations. It's not about, I mean, I mean, if someone's using discord, for example, cuz they're gamers, they're done discord. If they want to communicate with, with slack, they, I do slack, SMS, kind of old hat. You got WhatsApp, you've got all these now peer to peer organic connections, multiple channels. This is all the new world. What's your vision on this new relationship building digital communication world. >>Yeah. So I, I think you brought a really good point there. One of the most frequently used applications in the world today are messaging applications across any countries, any region, any culture, if you look at the most frequently used and most longest used applications are usually some form of a, a messaging application. Now the end users or the customers in the world are so used to using, uh, uh, such a, you know, frictionless ver very responsive, modern experience on those messaging applications. What we want to help with the business around the world, the 99.9% of the business around the world don't have those really te knowledge or user experience expertise in messaging. So we want to help our businesses, help our customers be able to harness the power of modern messaging capabilities and then be able to embed it in their own business so that they can retain their users on their platform, engage with them in the con context that their, uh, what their business is about so that they can not only, uh, control or provide a better user experience, but also be able to, uh, understand their users better, uh, understand what they're doing on their businesses, be able to own and, uh, control the data in a more secure and safe way. >>So really it's uh, we're like the Robin hood of the world trying to keep superpower yeah. Back to the businesses. >>Yeah. Deal from the rich idea, the messaging scale. Bring that to everybody else. I love that. Uh, and you got kind of this double int Robin hood kind of new for the new generation finance. This is about taking the advantage of scalable platforms, monopolies, right. And giving the entrepreneur an opportunity to have that same capability feature, rich Louise PPE. You guys used Sendbird together. You have to level up, you gotta compete with those big monopolies to pride, scalable conversations. Okay. How did you engage this? What was your success path look? What was it look like? >>Yeah. When we look to this majority, the bigger chat apps that we have nowadays in the market, we are looking to them and then Brazilians are using for their daily course, but Brazilians are paying every day millions and millions of payments. And these chat apps are not, uh, able to, to, to deal with these payments. So what we are doing here is that, uh, providing a solution where every conversation that are going to happen before, during, or after a payment between the, the people, they would, uh, uh, have a nice platform that could afford all, all of their emotions and discussions that they have to do before or after the payment. So we are putting together the chat platform and we with the payment platform. So that's, that's what we are doing now. >>Okay. So just so I get this right. You're using Sandberg essentially integrated your mobile payment experience. Okay. Which is your app you're Sandberg to bring that scalability into the, into the social app application into the app itself. Is that right? >>Yes. Perfect. Integrated with the payment journey. So everybody who is going to pay, they need to find the one, the, the one they want to pay and then they can chat and conclude the payment through the platform. Yeah. I >>Mean, why not have it right there at point of, uh, transaction. Right. Um, why did you, um, decide to, um, to use conversations in your mobile wallet? Just curious. >>So it's important to say that we were born social. We born in 2012. So when our main main product was peer to peer payments, so everybody were sending money to a friend requesting or charging their family. So a service provider. And once we, we started as a social platform in that period. In that moment, we are just focusing in likes comments and like public interactions and the word become more private. And as soon we under understood this situation, we decided to move from a public feed to a private, to a private interaction. So that's, uh, that then the, the conversational space was the solution for that moving from a public interaction to a private interaction. So between the peers, which are involved in the, the transaction. So that's why we are providing the chat solution integrated with payments. >>That's a great call. John, just give some context here, again, for the folks watching this is now expected, this integrated experience. What's your, how would you talk to folks out there? I mean, first of all, I, I, I see it clearly, you've got an app, you gotta have all this integration and you need it scaling to reach features. Talk about your view on that. Is that the, is that what's happening here? What's, what's the real dynamic here. What's the, the big trend. >>Yeah. One thing that's, uh, super interesting about, uh, uh, like messaging experience in general, if you think about any kind of conversations that's happening, uh, digitally between human beings, more and more conversations, just like what Louis mentioned earlier are happening between in a private setting, even on applications, whether it be slack or other forms of communication, uh, more hap uh, more conversations happen through either one-on-one conversations or in a private small group settings. And because people feel more secure, uh, safe to have, uh, more intimate conversations. So even when you're making transactions is more, you know, there's a higher trust and, uh, people tend to engage, uh, far better on platforms through these kind of private conversations. That's where we kind of come in, whether it be, you want to set a one-on-one conversations or with a group conversation. And then ultimately if you want to take it public in a large group setting, you can also support, you know, thousands, if not, you know, hundreds of thousands of people, uh, engaging a public forum as well. So all of those capabilities can be implemented using something Ember, but again, the world is, uh, right now the businesses and how the user are, are interacting with this with each other is all happening through digital conversations. And we're seeing more and more of that happening, uh, throughout the life cycle of our company. >>Yeah, just as a sidebar, I was just talking to a venture in San Francisco the other day, and we're talking about the future of security and SAS and cloud scale. And, you know, the conversation went to more of, is it SAS? Is it platform as a service Louis? I wanna get your thoughts because, you know, you're seeing more and more needs for customization, low code, no code. You're seeing these trends. You gotta built in security. So, you know, the different, the old SAS model was softwares a service, but now that's everything in the cloud is softwares a service. So, but you need to have that platform kind of vibe for scale customization, maybe some developer integration, cuz apps are becoming the, the touchpoint. So can you walk us through what your vision was when you decided to integrate, chat into your app and how did you see that chat, changing the customer experience for payments and across your user journey? Cause, I mean, it's obvious now looking at it, but it might not have been for some. What was your, what was your vision? And when you had to do that, >>When you looked to Brazilian reality, we can see those in, uh, payment apps. All of them are focused on the transactional moment. And as soon as we started to think, how could be, how could our journey be better, more pleased than the others and make people want to be here and to use and to open our app every day is just about making the interaction with the peers easier, even with a merchant or even with my friend. So the main point that our first step was just to connect all, all the users between themselves to payments. The second step we are providing now is using the chat platform, the send bird platform as a platform for peak pay. So we are going to provide more best information. We're going to provide a better customer experience through the support and everything. So, um, this, this, this interaction or this connection, this partnership with Sandberg are going to unlock a new level of service for our users. And at the same time, a much more pleasant or a more pleasant journey for them while they are using the, the app for a, a simple payment, or if they are going to look for a group objective or maybe a crowdfund in the future or a group to decide, or just to pay something. So we are then locking a new level of interaction between the peers between the people and the users that are, that are involved into this, this payment or this simple transaction, we are making it more conversational. >>Yeah. You're making the application more valuable. We're gonna get to that in the next segment about, you know, the future of apps one and done, you see a lot of sports apps, oh, this big tournament, you know, and then you use it and then you never use it again until next year. You know, you have very time specific apps, but now you guys are smart to kind of build this in, but I gotta ask you a question because a lot of developers and companies out there always have this buy versus build decision. Why did you decide to use Sendbird versus building it in house? It's always kind of like the big trade off. >>Yeah. First of all, it will take a long, long time for us to achieve a major platform as Sandberg. And we are not a chat platform. So we are going to use this social interaction to improve the payment platform that we have. So when we look to the market and we found Sandberg, then we thought, okay, this guys, they are a real platform. And through the conversations, we are seeing that they are roadmap working in synergy with our roadmap. And then we can, we could start to deliver value to our, to our users in a fastest way. Could you imagine it spending 2, 3, 4 years to develop something like sand? And even when we achieve this point, probably our solution will be, would be weaker than, than Sandberg. So it was like no brainer to do that. Yeah. Because we want to improve the payment journey, not to do a chat, only a chat platform. So that's why we are working together to prove it's >>Really, you start to see these plugins, these, you know, look at Stripe for payments, for instance, right. And here in the success they've had, you know, people want to plug in for services. So John, I gotta ask you about, um, about the, the complexity that goes into it. The trust required that they have for you, you have to do this heavy lifting, you gotta provide the confidence that your service is gonna have to scale the compliance. Talk about that. What do you guys do under the covers that make this easy again, great business model, heavy lifting done by you. Seamless integration provide that value. That's why business is good, but there's a lot going on share what's happening under the, under the covers. >>Yeah. Um, before going to like the technical, like intricacy of what we do just to provide a little bit of background context on why we even started this business is we, uh, this is my second startup. My first company was a gaming company. We had built like chat three, four times just for our own game. So we were basically, we felt like we were reinventing the wheel. And then we actually went on a buyer's journey when we were building a social application, uh, uh, for, for, uh, uh, building our own community. We tried to actually be a buyer to see if we can actually find a solution. We want to use turns out that there weren't a lot of like sophisticated, you know, top notch, modern, uh, uh, chat experience that we can build using some other third party solutions. So we had to build all of that ourselves, which became the foundation for se today. >>And what we realized is that for most companies like using a building, the most sophisticated chat is probably not going to be their highest priority in case a pick pay will be, you know, financial transactions and all the other business that can be built on and hosted by platform like pick pay. But, you know, building the most topnotch chat experience would be a priority for a company like let's say WhatsApp or, or telegram, but it will probably not be the priority for, you know, major gaming companies, food delivery companies, finance companies, chat is not the highest priority. That's kind of where we come in, cuz chat is the highest priority for us. And we also have a privilege of working with some of the other, uh, world industry, uh, industry leaders. So by, uh, having this collective experience, working with the industry leaders, we get, uh, uh, technological superiority, being able to, uh, scale to, you know, hundreds of millions of users on a monthly basis. Also the security and the compliances by working with some of the largest commercial banks on some of the largest FinTech applications across the globe. So we have, you know, security, compliances, all the industry, best practices that are built in and all the new topnotch user experience that we are, uh, building with other customers can be also be, uh, utilized by a customer like pick pay. So you get this collective almost like evolutionary benefit. Yeah. By, uh, working with a company like us, >>You get a lot of economies of scale. Could you mind just sharing the URL for the company? So folks watching can go get, do a deep dive. Cause I'm you guys got a lot of, lot of, um, certifications under the covers, a lot of things you guys do. So you mind just sharing URL real quick. >>Yeah. So our company, uh, you can find everything about our company on sandberg.com like carrot pigeon. So, uh, you're sending a bird to send a message. So, uh, yeah. send.com >>All so let's get it to the application, cuz this is really interesting cuz Chad is table stakes now, but things are evolving beyond Chad. You gotta integrate that user experience. It's data. Now you gotta have scale. I mean, you know, people who wanna roll their own chat will find out there's a lot of client side and backend scale issues. Right. You can have a tsunami river like on Twitch, you know, you chat. I mean that, could you got client side issues, data scale. <laugh> right. You got backend. Um, Louis, talk about that dynamic because you know, as you start to scale, you want to rely on that. Talk about this dynamic, how apps now are integrating all these new features. So is it, are apps gonna go like more multifunctional? Do you see apps one and done? What's the, how do you guys see this app world playing out and where does, does the Sendbird fit in? And >>Just, just let me know better John, about the performance or about the, just, just let me >>Oh, slow with performance. Uh, performance is huge, right? You gotta have no one wants to have lag on, on chat. >>Okay. So, um, big pay when we look to the payments have millions, thousands of, of, of payments happen happening every second. So what we are doing now is moving all the payments through a conversation. So it always happened inside the conversation. So since from the first moment, um, every second counts to convert this client. And since from the first moment we never saw in, on Sandberg, any issue about that. And even when we have a question or something that we need to improve the team we're working together. So that that's, those are the points that are making us to work together and to make things going pretty fast. When we look to the users who are going to use chat, they are, their intention is three times better than the users who are not using payments through the chat. They are average. Average spent is three times higher too. >>So they, they are making more connections. They are chatting with their friends. They are friends are here. So the network effect is stronger. So if they're going to pay and they need to wait one more second, two seconds to conclude the payment, probably they will not go into choose paying through the, again, they will use only the wallet, only the code, only the Alliance of the user. So that's is so important for us to perform really, really fast. And then this is what we are finding. And this is what is happening with the integration with Sandberg. >>And what's interesting is, is that the by build chat with conversation, we just had a minute ago kind of plays in here. You get the benefits of Sandberg, but now your transactional fidelity is in the chat <laugh> that you don't build that you rely on them on. So again, that's an interesting dynamic. This is the future of apps, John, this is where it matters. The engagement. This is what you talk about is the new, the new digital experience who would've thought that five, 10 years ago. I mean, chat was just like, Hey, what's going around direct message. Now it's integral part of the app. What's your reading. >>Yeah. I mean, we're seeing that across, uh, uh, to Lewis's point, not just transactions, but like marketing messages are now being sent through chat. So the marketing is no longer just about like giving discount calls, but you can actually reengage with the brand. Uh, also support is becoming more real time through chat. So you're actually building a relationship. The support agents have a better context about the previous conversations and the transactions, the sales conversations, even like building, uh, building alerts, notification, all those things are now, uh, happening through conversations. And that's a better way for customers to engage with the brand cuz you actually, you're actually building a better relationship and also, uh, being able to trust the brand more because there is a channel for you to communicate and, and, and be seen and be heard, uh, by the brand. So we do believe that that's the future of the business and how more and more, uh, brands will be building relationships with their customers. >>Yeah. I love, I love your business model. I think it's really critical. And I think that stickiness is a real, uh, call out point there and the brand, the co-branding and the branding capability, but also really quickly in the last minute we have John and Luis, if you don't mind talking about security, I mean, I can't go a day now without getting an SMS scam, uh, text, uh, you seeing it now on WhatsApp. I mean, I don't even use telegram anymore. I mean, come on. So like, like this is now a problem. The old way has been infiltrated with spam and security issues. Security has to be there. The trust and security real quick, John, we'll start with you and we all Louis go, go ahead. >>No, no. Just, just to, to say how important is that we are not only a chatting platform. We are a payment platform, so we have money now, the transaction. So here in Brazil, we have all this safe, the, the, the layers, the security layers that we have in, on our app. And then we have the security layers provided from Sandburg. So, and when we look to the features, Sandberg are providing to us a lot of features that help users to feel safer like per refined profiles, like announcements, where it's a profile from peak pay, where the users can recognize. So this is peak pay talking with me. It's not a user trying to pass, trying to use big Bay's name to talk with me. So these issues is something that we are really, really, we really care about here because we are not only a chat platform. As I said before, we are a payment platform. We are a FinTech, we're at a digital bank. So we need to take care a lot and we don't have any complaint about it because Sandberg understood it. And then they, they, they are providing since the first moment with the perfect solutions and the user interface to make it simpler for the users to recognize that we speak, pay who is chatting with them, not a user with, with bad, bad intentions. >>Great, great insight, Louis. Thanks for sharing that, John really appreciate you guys coming on. Great showcase. Real final word. John will give you the final word folks watching out there. How do they engage with Sendbird? I want to integrate, I want to use your chat service. What do I do? Do I have to connect in as it managed service is the line of code. What do I do to get Sendbird? >>Yeah. So if you're a developer building a mobile application, simply come visit our website, we have a open documentation and SDK you can download and simply plug into your application. You can have a chat experience up and running matter of minutes, if not ours using our UI kit. So we want to make it as easy as possible for all the builders in the world to be able to harness the superpower of digital conversations. >>All right, great. Congratulations, John, on your success and all the growth and Louis, thanks for coming in, sharing the customer perspective and great insight. Thanks for coming on the showcase. Really appreciate it. Thanks for your time. >>Yeah. Thank you for having me. >>Okay. The a of us startup showcase season two, episode three here I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching.

>>Hey there, thank you for joining me. My name is Heather Pick and I head up strategy and portfolio for point next technology services. Um I really appreciate you guys joining me today. So I want to take you through some of the experiential changes that we are launching today in accordance with their compute space that we believe are going to drive the success of our compute platform without our customer environment. I always like to start these presentations with a provocative yet somewhat simple question and today um I want to start with what would you do if you had an hours, more time and every day. Now to be clear, I'm not looking to extend the day to 25 hours so you can cram more stuff into it. I'm really looking at if I gave you an hour's worth of time of stuff that you did today and tomorrow, you don't have to do it anymore. What would you do with that time? Would you take a lunch hour? Would you leave at a reasonable hour on a daily basis from work? Would you spend that hour really thinking about that strategic project that your boss needs you to go do some R. And D on and really forgot where it is. You need to take the company. What would you do with that precious time? And I ask you because here within point, next technology services, we believe that the element of time is one of the most valuable resources that we can give back to our customers, right? And we see that in two spaces, right? So both in time saved and then time well spent. And let me tell you what it is. I mean about this. So when we talk about giving time back to our customers, that's in terms of a rich digital experience that provides automation and Ai and ultimately access to the things that matter to our customers so that they can do the day to day job of managing their technology ecosystem. Yeah. We don't want to undermine the fact that that same digital platform is also leveraged in order to enhance conversations with our customers that we consider time well spent. So answering questions about what would happen if I turn to this feature on what can I expect um if I make this architectural changes and we're seeing both of those questions come our way hard and fast from our customer base. And these two elements are the underpinning of the entire portfolio experience change that we're bringing to market. Yeah. So what do I mean specifically when we talk about time well saved our time safe. So how how are you going to realize this within your day to day? So number one, it's it's knowing our customers, right? We are working with a lot of different personas within our customer base, right? So we might have a purchasing agent, we might have an I. T. Line manager and the ability and the requirement within that digital ecosystem to know that person the moment they walk through the front door, whatever their front door is, whether it's a digital front door, whether it's a phone call, whether it's an email, whether it's reaching out to an HP person that's on site that we have that digital footprint on them to know who they are and what information matters to them second, taking our technology capabilities and all the information and the richness that's within that digital environment and providing them access to the information about their products that's meaningful to them. Sometimes they don't want to talk to us. Sometimes they just want to know how to do a simple field replacement of something or, or when they get into those more complex. Hey, I need more expertise. I really do need to do some scenario planning. How do I get access to those technologists that can help me? And then how do those technologists bring other people to that conversation so that I leave that conversation knowing that have the right answer and the decision that I've made is the right one for my company. So let me take you through an example of what it is I'm talking about. So as you enter into the new digital customer experience or HP Support center, as you've known it, you're going to notice a dearth of information that's available to you. And one of the cornerstones are foundational elements in developing this new experience is really that it's tolerable. Not every customer and not every persona within every customer wants access to all this information. So, customization on this entry point is critical for you. So, whether you are a line manager who wants to understand all of the things that are going on within your environment, whether you're a technologist that wants to understand what is the technical risk within my environment right now, whether that's their product alerts or critical downloads, or again back into that broader view of what's happening with my contracts, what's expiring, how much money am I going to have to spend this year to keep the keep these contracts going? That's all available to you within this digital experience, and again, heavily customizable based on what you want to see. So in terms of asset management, let's get down to the technical aspects associated with it. So, our technologists need access into their environment on a per product or per technology basis. When we talk about compute it gets even more critical for me to know what kind of compute assets I have and again, what are the features and functionality or potential risks within those environments? This allows a rich ecosystem with access to all of that technical knowledge, very prescriptive information about the different products that's that you have running within your environment, access to both a digital ecosystem as well as peers doing similar things. And then finally, a roll up to give you proactive insights to again your entire environment from a technical view so that you can identify and manage risks in aggregate as opposed to on a per asset basis. We believe that these are the two foundational elements of success in giving customers time back and then also providing the foundation for meaningful experiences. So I've taken you through the detail on what we mean by saving you time. I've taken you through a demo of our new digital customer experience. Now let me talk a little bit in depth about what we mean by time, well spent more and more coming from our customers, they're expecting us to deal with the technology issues, you know, of our technology, but more and more. They also want information on the broader implications of technology changes within their environments so things around performance. How do I get more performance from this from this compute platform that I look at? How do I find tune it so that it can be more workload addressable? Um what happens when I toggle this feature to the network impact? So more and more often we're having to have much broader conversations, again, more meaningful conversations with our customer base on the outcomes that they're trying to drive. So as a result, our offerings are changing in order to pivot towards your more workload mindset and that more aggregate view as you'll see reflected in some of our technology tools. I'm going to take you through an interview with one of our technologists um to show you what it is I'm talking about. So joining me is Nation George. He is one of our senior technologists. Within point. Next Technology services Nation, thank you for joining us. How are you doing today? >>Be good, >>awesome. So you see a lot you've been with us, You're dealing with a lot of customers. Tell us what you're seeing on a day to day basis. What questions are you getting for their customers? How are you seeing these interactions change? >>Absolutely. Before I go into the examples, I've haven't seen your technologist in plain X. Global Remote Services. What I do late today is actually solving complex problems. I can give you a few examples. For example, like a couple of days back I was actually on a customer call um they were looking for understanding the benefits of tag versus tunnel network in more in hb synergy when inter operating with one view Cisco ASA and B M R V center and this is in the interoperability space. Another example would be a customer coming in and asking like this is a telecommunication customer who want to know how to integrate their centralist monitoring tool um to retrieve physical encounters from H. B. Products so that they can have their proactive monitoring in place, right. And some of the other common questions what we see from customers are around maintenance which means like they are doing an infrastructure former update and or infrastructure update. They would like to understand how the version compatibility, the known issues specific to their environment or the best practices what they can follow so that the updates complete successfully. You know, these are the type of request, what we are seeing mostly now from the customers. >>Okay, so really diverse, Pretty complex. A lot of moving parts. Um, how do you know, what kind of methodology or how are we doing to ensure consistency across all these interactions in the different customers? >>Absolutely. We have developed a method and a mindset to provide a frictionless experience to the customer. When they come with these questions, you know what it means is actually that when they come with the question, we try to understand their technical problem technical problem from a technology standpoint. Then we try to see how the technical problem impacts the workload and application and how does it impact their business. We get into an understanding of the technical problem. Then we try to understand that. What are the components involved in the solution for example like compute storage, fabric and software. And then try to understand the into anthropology and data flow with the understanding of the technical problem and the solution into interview. Now we are able to understand what the customer is trying to achieve and what the expected outcome of the interaction need to be and now that we know the expertise needed and most of the time we have the expertise needed to take care of the request. In some cases we need to bring additional experts but we will bring the additional experts but all the time we will keep the solution level ownership until the expected outcome is achieved. Once we are able to collaborate, the experts were able to explain to the customer that the actionable steps which they can perform to actually resolve the problem or achieve the expected outcome. You know? This is the type method what we use whenever the customer comes for advice and guidance. >>So what do you think the ultimate benefits are to the customer? And kind of simplified terms? >>Yeah, these are some of the benefits. What I can see, you know one. They can call us to the support line for any help. For example, like they have a question, they need an answer, they need an advice and guidance or they have support issues that one stop shop like they come to our call, they call us and get them the assistant second, it is a solution level ownership. The person who picks up the call and assist will stay on with the solution level ownership until the customers expected outcome is achieved third. Once we follow the method, what I explained earlier, we will always get to foster resolution and always achieves the customers outcomes. Actually see at the end of it. The central focus here is to reach customers outcome and with solution level ownership. >>Great, thank you so much for joining me. This has been really, really insightful. It's always good to be able to talk with our technologists. >>Thank you heather. >>Okay, so you can never come to one of these without some sort of a call to action. So what am I? What am I asks of you? Check out, check care, right, explore the digital customer experience, use those tools and resources that are available into the air. Use it and give us feedback. This is not a capability that we're rolling out, that we're not going to touch. You're going to see iterative value added to it and that's going to be driven primarily by customer feedback and then telemetry that we're getting on how it is. They're using it, so use it and give us that feedback. Get your time back, really, get your time back, take your lunch, um, spend time on the strategic projects. That's what we're here for. This is we think one of our most compelling assets that we can do for our customer base. Thank you for your time.

>>Good morning. Good afternoon. And good evening. I am Kevin Duke with HPE GreenLake cloud services and welcome to the HPE GreenLake per private cloud session. I enjoined today by Raj mystery and Steve show Walter, who will walk us through today's presentation and demonstration. We'd like to keep this session interactive. So please submit your questions in the chat window. We have subject matter experts on the line to answer your questions. So with that, I'll hand over to Raj Kilz. Thanks Kevin. So cloud is now fast becoming a reality. We says HPE and what our customers say to is that it's not an expectation anymore. It's an absolute necessity. So the research and the stats that you see on the screen, just kind of like prove that over the last five to six years, organizations, enterprises are adopting cloud. Be it in the data center with the hyperscalers are a mixture of both. >>But the interesting thing that we see now is a moving investment to basically increase private cloud capability. Uh, and in that vein, what we've done with Greenlight cloud services is create a rich portfolio that delivers that cloud-like experience either at the edge in your data center, co-location the actually matches and actually embraces the work that you do with the hyperscalers. What we're doing here is we're providing self-service capability elasticity in the means and the way that you would use this and the way that you would flex things open down more importantly, all of this is one and operated for you, which comes true to what we say in terms of delivering that cloud experience within those locations, being at the edge, the data center or the Colwell, um, Greenlight for private cloud was initially launched, uh, in summer 2020, it was the first iteration of what we call the Greenlight platforms. >>What we're trying to do with this element of the Greenlight cloud services portfolio is four things which is eliminate the complexity of building things that live, breathe, behave, and act like in a cloud-like manner in the data center, because this is hard. Yeah, the visibility around the way that you would manage and understand and run and operate certain elements of that cloud, uh, the governance and the compliance pace, which is important, especially when it comes to things like applying policies, et cetera, that you would have. And then the skills gap that we do from our managed services perspective, that takes things off. So from an infrastructure standpoint, beginning of the left, well class HPE compute storage networks, which is embracing the virtualization and the software defined networking layer together with a pretty rich cloud automation and orchestration portal all wrapped up for you. Pre-built pre architected, removing complexity, increasing time to value, uh, and, and, uh, the, the actual delivery timescales, if we move to the actual experience, although this is actually, uh, embracing the way that you would access these, uh, solutions. >>So in, through GreenLake central, uh, that's where your other service experience begins with HPE is your entry point into the world of as a service from here on which you would actually access that service. So from a, from a private cloud standpoint, this is where you would initiate the cloud management portal. And then you would begin either working in that and the roles of either administrator, consumer, et cetera. Lastly, you know, pushing buttons and provisioning stuff is really easy, but a lot of our focuses is in the pulse provisioning processes, understanding is it turned on? Is it off? How much is it costing me? Am I getting the most efficiency out of it? Am I running out of capacity to deliver services to my users? All of this is finally wrapped up with the managed platform capability, which means you now have to understand and treat Hewlett-Packard enterprise as an MSP and a cloud provider within our data center. We take care of the infrastructure, the software, and the experience, your entry point is that the cloud management layer, that's how we get you going. >>Hey, Roger, I know we made some announcements earlier today about a new scalable form factor version of private cloud. I was wondering if maybe you could talk about how that extends the value proposition for customers >>Question Steve. Um, so what the scalable form factor is really is it's also looking at market feedback, understanding of what our customers are bringing this as a entry point into the smaller and the more medium enterprise who are looking to deliver private cloud capabilities, you know, making it easier for them to embrace it and then scale. The other differences is the way that we actually have flexibility in the way that that cloud solution now grows. So different options, uh, available to customers in terms of what they want to do. We typically talk as a team and to our customers about different roles. So we have a notion of the cloud administrator or the cloud operator. This is more of your classic kind of like administrative role. So this is where our customers would come in, right at the cloud management layer and begin configuring their EMR environment, networking services, et cetera, from here, onwards is the cloud consumer. >>So applications, line, application, developers, lines of business, et cetera, they're presented with a self-service catalog for them to come and provision stuff. It could be normal VMs. It could be kind of like applications depending on what the administrators or the operators of Charles and to present to them. Lastly, it's around, how do I understand what's going on in the environment? So the focus, as I mentioned beforehand, visibility to them understand what's happening to then optimize later. So addressing the needs of lines of, or it leaders and business leaders within our customer base, although this then begins from our central point of access, which is GreenLake central from here, services and solutions that customers subscribe to are presented, depending on who you are, your privileges, your role within the actual environment, you get different options. So a cloud administrator may see different things in central because they require administrative functions within the cloud environment. I consume it such as me may have limited views in central access a service, but I can basically only read our provision set, things that are done for me from a lines of business or from an it leadership perspective. It's about providing predictive billing visibility into cost, understanding from a planning standpoint and allowing people to optimize it, ease and speed. So central is where your journey begins. And then from within there, you launch the necessary service like you're subscribed to today's focus is the private cloud. >>So who is this a solution built for Raj? Uh, initially we started off at the large enterprise level, Kevin, but what we've done as we did as HPE has listened to our customers. So we've reintroduced on them. We're launching today, the scalable form factor to address the needs of a multitude of clients, both large and small and enable people to have different kind of like deployment types. So remote office branch office for the larger customers, and for those smaller enterprises wanting to begin their private cloud journey, a great way for them to do that with HPE. >>All right. Thank you. >>Um, how does the customer access the private cloud environment, uh, by agreeing like central Kevin? Great question. That's our entry point for any of the services? Uh, easier to see later on in the demo that Steve's going to walk through, uh, it's where customers come in and depending on role access, privilege, rights, et cetera, you are presented with your services. And from within that you access the service depending on the role that's been assigned to you. So state, why don't you show us a little bit about what a cloud administrator or a cloud operator can do within the environment? Sure. Happy to rush. As we talked to these personas are use cases. You know, our experience, as Raj mentioned, will always start in GreenLake central. So the role or persona I'm taking on here is that of an administrator of this private cloud environment. So again, I start off by logging into GreenLake central. Once this stood up, services stood up and available, uh, within my data center, I see the green Lake for private cloud tile, which gives me an overview of services I'm consuming. And some of the things that might be running in that environment, clicking on the tile, takes me to the cloud management platform dashboard. This is where I, as an administrator can configure and control lots of things in the environment on behalf of my end users. So a couple of examples of things I might want to do first off. Uh, there's an important >>Notion of grouping that we use for access control within the environment. So I may want to organize my users into groups to control what they can see, what they can do, what sort of policies I can apply to them next. I probably want to configure the underlying software defined network that Raj talked about. So again, we deliver a software defined networking capability from within the software defined network. This is where I can create things like underlying networks, underlying distributed V switches at an IP address pools. I can also configure and manage software defined routers, firewall rules, and some of those sorts of things within the environment, uh, in the IP address pools I have that I want to make available to some of those underlying networks I could manage from within here as well. We also feature software to find load balancing capabilities. So again, if I expect to my developers or my end users, to be able to provision resources that require some load balancing, I can create those load balancers define the types of load balancing I want to make available to those end users from within here as well. >>Finally, I can manage keys and certificates. So if I have things like key payers or SSL certificates, again, that I want to make available to my end users, um, I could manage all that from within here. And then one of the final things I might want to do is start to manage a, an automation library. So a library of virtual images, I don't want to make available for, for my end users because the private cloud solution is based on VMware. I might want to just pull in some existing VMware images. I have, I might want to create some new custom images, but really I have a central place to be able to manage that library of images and then, you know, decide who has access to which images and how I want to make those available to end users users to be able to provision and lifecycle manage. >>So that's a quick overview of some of the administrative capabilities, uh, Kevin, any questions at this point about that capability? I got one for you customers bring their own tooling to the private cloud. Oh yeah. So that's a great question. So, you know, almost every customer I talk to nowadays has made a large investment, typically in some sort of automation tooling. And one of the things that we want to provide is the ability to surface that tooling and kind of allow customers to be able to reuse that tooling within our private cloud environment. So within the private cloud platform, as an administrator, I can create all sorts of scripts and, you know, maybe some basic capabilities I wanted to find for scripts, but they also have the ability to integrate automation platforms. So we can see in this particular environment, I've, I've onboarded a, uh, a set of Ansible playbooks that exist in a get repo. Uh, I really just point the cloud management platform to that repo it scrapes all the playbooks that it finds there and those become available as tasks and workflows that I can use, uh, after I provisioned BM. So again, I can reuse that investment that I've made in automating things like application provisioning, application configuration for my end users within my environment. >>I've got another one for you. Uh, how do customers improve control and governance of their private cloud? Yeah. So there are a couple of different ways to do that. So, you know, we'll talk specifically. One of the capabilities I have within, uh, the cloud management platform is the ability to create, uh, policies. Policies are really a way I can provide my users with, you know, self-service access to kind of go do the things that they need to do, but provide some control around what they can do. So there's all sorts of policies I can create. So policies around things like if I've got certain group of users that I want to require to get provision approval, anytime they approve provision something, I wanted an administrator to approve it. I can also limit the things that maybe a group of consumers of consumers can consume within my environment. Maybe I want to define a certain host name rule. So rather than create your own host names, I have a rule I want applied. Um, if tagging and showback is important, I might want to force some tags within my environment, say, Hey, anybody who provisioned something needs to provide me a value for this tag. And then I can define how that applies within the environment. So hopefully that answers some questions and gives you a feel of how these cloud administrators would work within the environment, TB to be able to manage the overall environment itself. >>Perfect. Thanks Steve. So what we've just described in seeing is, is the ability for a cloud administrator to a do day one tasks, set things up, set some services off and more importantly, apply some rules, controls, and governance. So it keeps users safe and it keeps it happy. Really. So let's say I'm Raj, I'm the head of applications and I've got a team of developers. So I'm now going to come in as a consumer. Can you show me what I can do as a consumer pleaser? >>Sure. Raj. So again, just like with the administrative use case, we talked about as a, as a cloud consumer, my experience starts in GreenLake central. So once I'm logged into GreenLake central, if I've been provided access to the environment by my administrators, I see the green Lake for private cloud tile, and I click on it to get to the cloud management platform. Just like the administrator you use. Now, I probably see a lot less because I probably have a lot less capabilities here, but one of the first places I'd probably want to go is take a look at what instances have been provisioned and maybe provision an instance on my own. So, you know, instance provisioning is very simple. Really. It's just a few clicks and answer a few questions. Uh, so in this case, if I have access to multiple groups, so kind of that logical separation that I talked about, I'd first pick, you know, which group is this a part of? >>Uh, again, in my particular case, I can provide a freeform name because that's the policy that's been set up for me. Um, I've got a forced tag, right? So I have to provide a tag or a label that tells me what, uh, what, what area this is a part of. And as I continue to drill down, now I get to a point where I can select my image based on the images that have been made, made available to me. Um, I can choose a size of a VM. So we have sort of some pre-provision sizes that might administrators have made available to me. And in some cases I can customize some things within those sizes, or maybe I can't, again, just depending on how this was created, select the network that I want to connect to, uh, and provide a few other options. One, the things I do want to talk about is this notion of tagging tagging is very important from a showback perspective. >>And we'll talk about when we get to cost analysis, how we can use any tags that get applied here to be able to do some show back reporting later. So if I want to provide a tag for an owner to make sure I can always write a report that says, show me everything that Steve has consumed. I've got the ability to provide those tags here. And again, through a policy, I can make those tags required. A couple of other choices. I have any of that available automation that maybe my administrators have made available. I can run here. I can select some scaling of my application, maybe go ahead and auto select the backup schedule, manage some lifecycle actions if maybe this VM only needs to run during weekdays. And I don't need it on the weekends. I can have it automatically shut down and start up. >>And at the end, just click on complete. Uh, and my VM is often being built. And then, you know, once my VMs are up and running, I've got access to be able to manage those VMs on a running basis. So, you know, if I have a VM that's running and I want to be able to manage it very simple again, from within the cloud management platform to go take a look at maybe how this VM is performing, maybe I want to log into the console. Maybe I want to take a look at the log stash that, you know, the log log error messages that this VM has created, or maybe I just want to stop it, start, it can create an image from it, or maybe, you know, after I've provisioned, it runs some of those workflows on it as a, as a end-user, I've got the capability to kind of fully manage and fully control those VMs once I have them up and running. >>So that's a quick overview of that cloud consumer use case. Uh, Kevin, do you have any questions right now about that use case? Yeah, I do, uh, cloud consumers today want more than a VM, so how can a private cloud deliver more value for cloud consumers? Yeah, so that's a great question. So we talked a little bit about the cloud management platforms, ability to integrate with existing automation, for things like, uh, application installation and configuration. Uh, but one thing I didn't talk about is kind of an alternate way. We can use that and that's through this notion of blueprints. So within the cloud management platform, I, as a developer or as an administrator can set up blueprints, which are really, uh, very complex applications. These could be multi-node multi-tiered applications where each tier may have a different application installed. They may be load balanced, all those sorts of things, and I can stitch all those together and make them available as a catalog item. >>It's just kind of one simple catalog item for an end user to consume. So they don't have to understand all the complexity or all the multiple nodes or all the workflows required on the backend to provide that service. I've already done all that hard work. I advertise it to them and they don't have to know, again, in this particular case, I've got a web tier made up of a couple of VMs, a database tier made up of a couple of VMs. Uh, there's some automation running, maybe through those Ansible playbooks, uh, in, in the backend to make all those things happen really, as an end user, I just say, Hey, I want one of these applications. I may need to answer a few questions, uh, depending on how the application or their blueprint is built. And then I could push that out as an application. And again, I don't have to understand all the complexities that make up that multi-node multi-tiered application on in the background >>Stay. That's really cool. So like phase as good as it can be. So, right. So we've pushed some buttons, we've set some stuff up, we've provisioned some stuff. So right at the beginning, you know, we spoke about the post provisioning stuff. So how do we actually manage the costs and also look at their usage within their environment, which is also important to our customers. >>Yeah. So it's a great question, Raj. So, you know, obviously customers want to understand what their overall green link consumption is, what their bill is, how all those things relate together. And then they probably want to do much more detailed cost analysis as well. So the good news here, we provide all this tooling and all this is available right through GreenLake central. So a couple of the tiles that you'll see in GreenLake central tie into the private cloud solution, just like they would any other GreenLake solution. So if I want to see overall what I've consumed, uh, within my private cloud, as a GreenLake resource, I can drill down to understand, Hey, what was actually metered as what I consumed, how did that relate to my GreenLake rate card? You know, how did that, how did that create the number that appeared on my GreenLake bill for this particular service at the end of the month, I've also got the tools to do capacity planning, again, just like every other green Lake environment. >>Uh, we want to be able to show kind of that capacity planning view so customers can understand kind of what they're consuming, uh, what direction that's trending. And when we need to add some, we may need to add some more additional capacity. So again, when a customer needs more, it's already there and ready to go, they just start to consume it and pay for it as a part of their green Lake bill. So Greenlight customers have a dedicated account team that kind of works with them to keep an eye on that capacity. And again, make sure we're working with customers to make the right decisions about when is the right time to add additional capacity to the environment. And then finally, you know, our customers also get access to consumption analytics for much more detailed cost reporting. So within consumption analytics, I can take advantage of those tags that I talked about previously. >>So here's a report I created where I want to see my private cloud consumption and use really broken down by cost center. And by the VMs that my users within each of those cost centers is consuming. So I wrote a report to do some showback costing based on those tags. So in this particular case, I can tell, for example, the colo engineer cost center that Hey you over the last month, you've consumed 32, uh, elements within the private cloud environment. You know, your total cost for that was $860. And I can give them the ability to, you know, if they want drill down on this. So, you know, now they'll see every individual VM that was provisioned, uh, where it ran when it ran. And in this particular case, I've broken down the cost between compute and storage, because I really wanted to see those separately as separate line items, but, you know, really give customers the ability to do whatever showback or chargeback reporting makes sense within their organization, based on the tags. >>They want to apply it and how they want to be able to show and consume those costs. So, Kevin, any questions about, uh, sort of this cost analysis use case? Yep. Is there a way to proactively monitor consumption of the private cloud environment? Yeah, so we actually provide a couple of different ways to do that. Uh, one right within consumption analytics that we talked about, one of the capabilities I have is, is the ability to set a budget. So in this particular case, I've set a budget again, kind of by that cost center that I can take a look at, Hey, you know, what are all these cost centers consuming within this private cloud environment? Uh, and how does that relate to, you know, what maybe, uh, an amount that I've given them to be able to use? So I can take a look at it and see, Hey, in the current period, you know, I've got one, a cost center that's over budget two that are under budget and take a look at their historical use as well. >>Going back to the cloud management platform. I also have more of a hard way to be able to set those consumption boundaries, uh, by using a policy. So again, if I want to create a policy that says, Hey, you know, Steve can only have 20 VMs. Uh, once he's provisioned those 20 VMs, he can't have any more, um, you know, he's got to come back and ask for more. And again, you know, when I create this policy, I could apply it to a group or an individual user just kind of based on how I want to put those guard rails around that environment and then sort of do that around that environment. So there's kind of a way to do this in more of a soft way based on cost to understand budgets and get notifications. When I get close to my budget limits or more of a hard way to actually, you know, be able to limit resources that customers can consume within the environment itself. So with that, Raj, I'll throw it back to you. >>Thanks, Dave, >>Just to wrap up really, you know, Steve and Kevin, thank you for the great demonstration and the chat, really, um, a few things for the audience and our customers, uh, to understand what we're now doing with Greenlight for private cloud and other platform solutions is helping you to get started really, really quickly, allowing you to begin your journey with us at the right level. And then you can scale depending on how you are actually managing your transformation, be it from an infrastructure standpoint application standpoint, or you are looking to basically just modernize the way that you deliver services back out to your internal users. The other side of it is, is the important fact that we now act and behave very much like a cloud. So because we run those environments for you, we eliminate the complexity of feeding them all, Trang, all the infrastructure, the configuration, and the updates of the software layer. It leaves you free to basically deliver the services like Steve has just shown the other side of it. Final point, is this all usage based? Uh, so again, lowering kind of like the initial investment risk for you guys, allowing you to, uh, benefit from the way that we've actually integrated the solutions and technologies. So you can just embrace them and take advantage of. >>Excellent. Thank you, Raj. So I would like to thank you all for today. Thank >>You, Raj and Steve, for a brilliant demonstration. If you would like more information or like to speak to someone directly, then please fill out the poll by clicking on the poll option at the top of the chat box. So in closing, if you are interested in HPE GreenLake for private cloud, then please start a trial. It's easy. Thank you. Thank you all and goodbye for now..

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation. >> Well, the Special Cube conversation. We are here in Palo Alto, California, Cube studios here. Tony, Gino, Domenico, Who's the senior security strategist and research at for Net and four to guard labs live from Las Vegas. Where Black Hat and then Def Con security activities happening, Tony, also known as Tony G. Tony G. Welcome to this cube conversation. >> Hey, Thanks, John. Thanks for having me. >> So a lot of action happening in Vegas. We just live there all the time with events. You're there on the ground. You guys have seen all the action there. You guys are just published. Your quarterly threat report got a copy of it right here with the threat index on it. Talk about the quarterly global threats report. Because the backdrop that we're living in today, also a year at the conference and the cutting edge is security is impacting businesses that at such a level, we must have shell shock from all the breaches and threats they're going on. Every day you hear another story, another story, another hack, more breaches. It said all time high. >> Yeah, you know, I think a lot of people start to get numb to the whole thing. You know, it's almost like they're kind of throwing your hands up and say, Oh, well, I just kind of give up. I don't know what else to do, but I mean, obviously, there are a lot of different things that you can do to be able to make sure that you secure your cybersecurity program so at least you minimize the risk of these particular routes is happening. But with that said with the Threat Landscape report, what we typically dio is we start out with his overall threat index, and we started this last year. If we fast forward to where we are in this actual cue to report, it's been one year now, and the bad news is that the threats are continuing to increase their getting more sophisticated. The evasion techniques are getting more advanced, and we've seen an uptick of about 4% and threat volume over the year before. Now the silver lining is I think we expected the threat volume to be much higher. So I think you know, though it is continuing to increase. I think the good news is it's probably not increasing as fast as we thought it was going to. >> Well, you know, it's always You have to know what you have to look for. Blood. People talk about what you can't see, and there's a lot of a blind spot that's become a data problem. I just want to let people know that. Confined the report, go to Ford Nets, ah website. There's a block there for the details, all the threat index. But the notable point is is only up 4% from the position year of a year that the attempts are more sophisticated. Guys gotta ask you, Is there stuff that we're not seeing in there? Is there blind spots? What's the net net of the current situation? Because observe ability is a hot topic and cloud computing, which essentially monitoring two point. Oh, but you gotta be able to see everything. Are we seeing everything? What's what's out there? >> Well, I mean, I think us as Ford, a guard on Darcy, have cyber threat in challenges. I think we're seeing a good amount, but when you talk about visibility, if you go back down into the organizations. I think that's where there's There's definitely a gap there because a lot of the conversations that I have with organizations is they don't necessarily have all the visibility they need from cloud all the way down to the end point. So there are some times that you're not gonna be able to catch certain things now. With that said, if we go back to the report at the end of the day, the adversaries have some challenges to be able to break into an organization. And, of course, the obvious one is they have to be able to circumvent our security controls. And I think as a security community, we've gotten a lot better of being able to identify when the threat is coming into an organization. Now, on the flip side, Oh, if you refer back to the minor Attack knowledge base, you'll see a specific tactic category called defense evasions. There's about 60 plus techniques, evasion techniques the adversary has at their disposal, at least that we know may there may be others, but so they do have a lot of opportunity, a lot of different techniques to be able to leverage with that, said There's one technique. It's, ah, disabling security tools that we started seeing a bit of an increase in this last cue to threat landscape report. So a lot of different types of threats and mile where have the capability to be ableto one look at the different processes that may be running on a work station, identifying which one of those processes happen to be security tools and then disabling them whether they're no, maybe they might just be able to turn the no, the actual service off. Or maybe there's something in the registry that they can tweak. That'll disable the actual security control. Um, maybe they'll actually suppress the alerts whatever. They conduce you to make sure that that security control doesn't prevent them from doing that malicious activity. Now, with that said, on the flip side, you know, from an organization for perspective, you want to make sure that you're able to identify when someone's turning on and turning off those security control to any type of alert that might be coming out of that control also. And this is a big one because a lot of organizations and this certainly do this minimize who has the ability to turn those particular security controls on and off. In the worst cases, you don't wanna have all of your employees uh, the you don't want to give them the ability to be able to turn those controls on and off. You're never gonna be ableto baseline. You're never gonna be able to identify a, you know, anomalous activity in the environment, and you're basically gonna lose your visibility. >> I mean, this increase in male wearing exploit activity you guys were pointing out clearly challenge the other thing that the report kind of She's out. I want to get your opinion on this. Is that the The upping? The ante on the evasion tactics has been very big trend. The adversaries are out there. They're upping the ante. You guys, we're upping the guarantees. This game you continue this flight will continues. Talk about this. This feature of upping the ante on evasion tactics. >> Yes. So that's what I was that I was kind of ah, referring to before with all the different types of evasion techniques. But what I will say is most of the all the threats these days all have some type of evasion capabilities. A great example of this is every quarter. If you didn't know. We look at different types of actors and different types of threats, and we find one that's interesting for us to dig into and where create was called an actual playbook, where we want to be able to dissect that particular threat or those threat actor methodologies and be able to determine what other tactics and corresponding techniques, which sometimes of course, includes evasion techniques. Now, the one that we focused on for this quarter was called His Ego's Was Ego, says a specific threat that is an information stealer. So it's gathering information, really based on the mission goals off, whatever that particular campaign is, and it's been around for a while. I'm going all the way back to 2011. Now you might be asking yourself, Why did we actually choose this? Well, there's a couple different reasons. One happens to be the fact that we've seen an uptick in this activity. Usually when we see that it's something we want to dive into a little bit more. Number two. Though this is a tactic of the of the adversary, what they'll do is they'll have their threat there for a little while, and then local doorman. They'll stop using that particular malware. That's no specific sort of threat. They'll let the dust settle that things die down. Organizations will let their guard down a little bit on that specific threat. Security organizations Ah, vendors might actually do the same. Let that digital dust kind of settle, and then they'll come back. Bigger, faster, stronger. And that's exactly what Z ghosted is. Ah, we looked at a specific campaign in this new mall where the new and improved Mauer, where is they're adding in other capabilities for not just being able to siphon information from your machine, but they're also now can capture video from your webcam. Also, the evasion techniques since Iran that particular subject, what they're also able to do is they're looking at their application logs. Your system logs your security logs, the leading them making a lot more difficult from a forensic perspective. Bill, go back and figure out what happened, what that actual malware was doing on the machine. Another interesting one is Ah, there. We're looking at a specific J peg file, so they're looking for that hash. And if the hash was there the axle? Um, our wouldn't run. We didn't know what that was. So we researched a little bit more on What we found out was that J Peg file happened to be a desktop sort of picture for one of the sandboxes. So it knew if that particular J pick was present, it wasn't going to run because it knew it was being analyzed in a sandbox. So that was a second interesting thing. The 3rd 1 that really leaned us towards digging into this is a lot of the actual security community attribute this particular threat back to cyber criminals that are located in China. The specific campaign we were focused on was on a government agency, also in China, So that was kind of interesting. So you're continuing to see these. These mile wears of maybe sort of go dormant for a little bit, but they always seem to come back bigger, faster, stronger. >> And that's by design. This is that long, whole long view that these adversaries we're taking in there as he organized this economy's behind what they're doing. They're targeting this, not just hit and run. It's get in, have a campaign. This long game is very much active. Howto enterprises. Get on, get on top of this. I mean, is it Ah, is it Ah, people process Issue is it's, um, tech from four to guard labs or what? What's what's for the Nets view on this? Because, I mean, I can see that happening all the time. It has >> happened. Yeah, it's It's really it's a combination of everything on this combination. You kind of hit like some of it, its people, its processes and technology. Of course, we have a people shortage of skilled resource is, but that's a key part of it. You always need to have those skills. Resource is also making sure you have the right process. Is how you actually monitoring things. I know. Ah, you know, a lot of folks may not actually be monitoring all the things that they need to be monitoring from, Ah, what is really happening out there on the internet today? So making sure you have clear visibility into your environment and you can understand and maybe getting point in time what your situational awareness is. You you, for my technology perspective, you start to see and this is kind of a trend. We're starting the leverage artificial intelligence, automation. The threats are coming, and it's such a high volume. Once they hit the the environment, instead of taking hours for your incident response to be about, at least you know not necessarily mitigate, but isolate or contain the breach. It takes a while. So if you start to leverage some artificial intelligence and automatic response with the security controls are working together. That's a big that's a big part of it. >> Awesome. Thanks for coming. This is a huge problem. Think no one can let their guard down these days? Certainly with service, they're expanding. We're gonna get to that talk track in the second. I want to get quickly. Get your thoughts on ransom, where this continues to be, a drum that keeps on beating. From a tax standpoint, it's almost as if when when the attackers need money, they just get the same ransomware target again. You know, they get, they pay in. Bitcoin. This is This has been kind of a really lucrative but persistent problem with Ransomware. This what? Where what's going on with Ransomware? What's this state of the report and what's the state of the industry right now in solving that? >> Yeah. You know, we looked into this a little bit in last quarter and actually a few quarters, and this is a continuous sort of trend ransom, where typically is where you know, it's on the cyber crime ecosystem, and a lot of times the actual threat itself is being delivered through some type of ah, phishing email where you need a user to be able to click a langur clicking attachment is usually kind of a pray and spray thing. But what we're seeing is more of ah, no sort of ah, you know, more of a targeted approach. What they'll do is to look for do some reconnaissance on organizations that may not have the security posture that they really need. Tohave, it's not as mature, and they know that they might be able to get that particular ransomware payload in there undetected. So they do a little reconnaissance there, And some of the trend here that we're actually seeing is there looking at externally RTP sessions. There's a lot of RTP sessions, the remote desktop protocol sessions that organizations have externally so they can enter into their environment. But these RTP sessions are basically not a secure as they need to be either week username and passwords or they are vulnerable and haven't actually been passed. They're taking advantage of those they're entering and there and then once they have that initial access into the network, they spread their payload all throughout the environment and hold all those the those devices hostage for a specific ransom. Now, if you don't have the, you know, particular backup strategy to be able to get that ransom we're out of there and get your your information back on those machines again. Sometimes you actually may be forced to pay that ransom. Not that I'm recommending that you sort of do so, but you see, or organizations are decided to go ahead and pay that ransom. And the more they do that, the more the adversary is gonna say, Hey, I'm coming back, and I know I'm gonna be able to get more and more. >> Yeah, because they don't usually fix the problem or they come back in and it's like a bank. Open bank blank check for them. They come in and keep on hitting >> Yeah >> same target over and over again. We've seen that at hospitals. We've seen it kind of the the more anemic I t department where they don't have the full guard capabilities there. >> Yeah, and I would have gone was really becoming a big issue, you know? And I'll, uh, ask you a question here, John. I mean, what what does Microsoft s A N D. H s have in common for this last quarter? >> Um, Robin Hood? >> Yeah. That attacks a good guess. Way have in common is the fact that each one of them urged the public to patch a new vulnerability that was just released on the RTP sessions called Blue Keep. And the reason why they was so hyped about this, making sure that people get out there and patch because it was were mobile. You didn't really need tohave a user click a link or click and attachment. You know, basically, when you would actually exploit that vulnerability, it could spread like wildfire. And that's what were mobile is a great example of that is with wannacry. A couple years ago, it spread so quickly, so everybody was really focused on making sure that vulnerability actually gets patched. Adding onto that we did a little bit of research on our own and ransom Internet scans, and there's about 800,000 different devices that are vulnerable to that particular ah, new vulnerability that was announced. And, you know, I still think a lot of people haven't actually patched all of that, and that's a real big concern, especially because of the trend that we just talked about Ransomware payload. The threat actors are looking at are Rdp as the initial access into the environment. >> So on blue Keep. That's the one you were talking about, right? So what is the status of that? You said There's a lot of vulnerable is out. There are people patching it, is it Is it being moving down, the down the path in terms of our people on it? What's your take on that? What's the assessment? >> Yeah, so I think some people are starting to patch, but shoot, you know, the scans that we do, there's still a lot of unpacked systems out there, and I would also say we're not seeing what's inside the network. There may be other RTP sessions in the environment inside of an organization's environment, which really means Now, if Ransomware happens to get in there that has that capability than to be able to spread like the of some RTP vulnerability that's gonna be even a lot more difficult to be able to stop that once it's inside a network. I mean, some of the recommendations, obviously, for this one is you want to be able to patch your RTP sessions, you know, for one. Also, if you want to be able to enable network authentication, that's really gonna help us. Well, now I would also say, You know, maybe you want a hard in your user name and passwords, but if you can't do some of this stuff, at least put some mitigating controls in place. Maybe you can isolate some of those particular systems, limit the amount of AH access organizations have or their employees have to that, or maybe even just totally isolated. If it's possible, internal network segmentation is a big part of making sure you can. You're able to mitigate some of these put potential risks, or at least minimize the damage that they may cause. >> Tony G. I want to get your thoughts on your opinion and analysis expert opinion on um, the attack surface area with digital and then ultimately, what companies can do for Let's let's start with the surface area. What's your analysis there? Ah, lot of companies are recognizing. I'll see with Coyote and other digital devices. The surface area is just everywhere, right? So I got on the perimeter days. That's kind of well known. It's out there. What's the current digital surface area threats look like? What's your opinion? >> Sure, Yeah, it's Ah, now it's funny. These days, I say no, Jenna tell you everything that seems to be made as an I P address on it, which means it's actually able to access the Internet. And if they can access the Internet, the bad guys can probably reach out and touch it. And that's really the crux of the problem of these days. So anything that is being created is out on the Internet. And, yeah, like, we all know there's really not a really rigid security process to make sure that that particular device as secure is that secure as it actually needs to be Now. We talked earlier on about You know, I ot as relates to maybe home routers and how you need to be ableto hard in that because you were seeing a lot of io teapot nets that air taking over those home routers and creating these super large I ot botnets on the other side of it. You know, we've seen ah lot of skate of systems now that traditionally were in air gapped environments. Now they're being brought into the traditional network. They're being connected there. So there's an issue there, but one of the ones we haven't actually talked a lot about and we see you're starting to see the adversaries focus on these little bit more as devices in smart homes and smart buildings in this queue to threat landscape report. There was a vulnerability in one of these you motion business management systems. And, you know, we looked at all the different exploits out there, and the adversaries were actually looking at targeting that specific exploit on that. That's smart management building service device. We had about 1% of all of our exploit, uh, hits on that device. Now that might not seem like a lot, but in the grand scheme of things, when we're collecting billions and billions of events, it's a fairly substantial amount. What, now that we're Lee starts a kind of bring a whole another thought process into as a security professional as someone responds double for securing my cyber assets? What if I include in my cyber assets now widen include all the business management systems that my employees, Aaron, for my overall business. Now that that actually might be connected to my internal network, where all of my other cyber assets are. Maybe it actually should be. Maybe should be part of your vulnerability mentioned audibly patch management process. But what about all the devices in your smart home? Now? You know, all these different things are available, and you know what the trend is, John, right? I mean, the actual trend is to work from home. So you have a lot of your remote workers have, ah, great access into the environment. Now there's a great conduit for the obvious areas to be ableto break into some of those smart home devices and maybe that figure out from there there on the employees machine. And that kind of gets him into, you know, the other environment. So I would say, Start looking at maybe you don't wanna have those home devices as part of, ah, what you're responsible for protecting, but you definitely want to make sure your remote users have a hardened access into the environment. They're separated from all of those other smart, smart home devices and educate your employees on that and the user awareness training programs. Talk to them about what's happening out there, how the adversaries air starting to compromise, or at least focus on some of them smart devices in their home environment. >> These entry points are you point out, are just so pervasive. You have work at home totally right. That's a great trend that a lot of companies going to. And this is virtual first common, a world. We build this new new generation of workers. They wanna work anywhere. So no, you gotta think about all that. Those devices that your son or your daughter brought home your husband. Your wife installed a new light bulb with an I peed connection to it fully threaded processor. >> I know it. Gosh, this kind of concern me, it's safer. And what's hot these days is the webcam, right? Let's say you have an animal and you happen to go away. You always want to know what your animals doing, right? So you have these Webcams here. I bet you someone might be placing a webcam that might be near where they actually sit down and work on their computer. Someone compromises that webcam you may be. They can see some of the year's name and password that you're using a log in. Maybe they can see some information that might be sensitive on your computer. You know, it's the The options are endless here. >> Tony G. I want to get your thoughts on how companies protect themselves, because this is the real threat. A ni O t. Doesn't help either. Industrial I ot to just Internet of things, whether it's humans working at home, too, you know, sensors and light bulbs inside other factory floors or whatever means everywhere. Now the surface area is anything with a knife he address in power and connectivity. How do companies protect themselves? What's the playbook? What's coming out of Red hat? What's coming out of Fort Annette? What are you advising? What's the playbook? >> Yeah, you know I am. You know, when I get asked this question a lot, I really I sound like a broken record. Sometimes I try to find so many different ways to spin it. You know, maybe I could actually kind of say it like this, and it's always means the same thing. Work on the fundamentals and John you mentioned earlier from the very beginning. Visibility, visibility, visibility. If you can't understand all the assets that you're protecting within your environment, it's game over. From the beginning, I don't care what other whiz bang product you bring into the environment. If you're not aware of what you're actually protecting, there's just no way that you're gonna be able to understand what threats are happening out your network at a higher level. It's all about situational awareness. I want to make sure if I'm if I'm a C so I want my security operations team to have situational awareness at any given moment, all over the environment, right? So that's one thing. No grabbing that overall sort of visibility. And then once you can understand where all your assets are, what type of information's on those assets, you get a good idea of what your vulnerabilities are. You start monitoring that stuff. You can also start understanding some of different types of jabs. I know it's challenging because you've got everything in the cloud all the way down to the other end point. All these mobile devices. It's not easy, but I think if you focus on that a little bit more, it's gonna go a longer way. And I also mentioned we as humans. When something happens into the environment, we can only act so fast. And I kind of alluded to this earlier on in this interview where we need to make sure that we're leveraging automation, artificial in intelligence to help us be able to determine when threats happened. You know, it's actually be in the environment being able to determine some anomalous activity and taking action. It may not be able to re mediate, but at least it can take some initial action. The security controls can talk to each other, isolate the particular threat and let you fight to the attack, give you more time to figure out what's going on. If you can reduce the amount of time it takes you to identify the threat and isolate it, the better chances that you're gonna have to be able to minimize the overall impact of that particular Reno. >> Tony, just you jogging up a lot of memories from interviews I've had in the past. I've interviewed the four star generals, had an essay, had a cyber command. You get >> a lot of >> military kind of thinkers behind the security practice because there is a keeping eyes on the enemy on the target on the adversary kind of dialogue going on. They all talk about automation and augmenting the human piece of it, which is making sure that you have as much realty. I'm information as possible so you can keep your eyes on the targets and understand, to your point contextual awareness. This seems to be the biggest problem that Caesar's heir focused on. How to eliminate the tasks that take the eyes off the targets and keep the situational winners on on point. Your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I have to. You know what, son I used to be? Oh, and I still do. And now I do a lot of presentations about situational awareness and being ableto build your you know, your security operations center to get that visibility. And, you know, I always start off with the question of you know, when your C so walks in and says, Hey, I saw something in the news about a specific threat. How are we able to deal with that? 95% of the responses are Well, I have to kind of go back and kind of like, you don't have to actually come dig in and, you know, see, and it takes them a while for the audio. >> So there's a classic. So let me get back to your boss. What? Patch patch? That, um Tony. Chief, Thank you so much for the insight. Great Congressional. The Holy Report. Keep up the good work. Um, quick, Quick story on black hat. What's the vibe in Vegas? Def con is right around the corner after it. Um, you seeing the security industry become much more broader? See, as the industry service area becomes from technical to business impact, you starting to see that the industry change Amazon Web service has had an event cloud security called reinforce. You starting to see a much broader scope to the industry? What's the big news coming out of black at? >> Yeah, you know, it's it's a lot of the same thing that actually kind of changes. There's just so many different vendors that are coming in with different types of security solutions, and that's awesome. That is really good with that, said, though, you know, we talked about the security shortage that we don't have a lot of security professionals with the right skill sets. What ends up happening is you know, these folks that may not have that particular skill, you know, needed. They're being placed in these higher level of security positions, and they're coming to these events and they're overwhelmed because they're all they'll have a saw slight. It's all over a similar message, but slightly different. So how did they determine which one is actually better than the others? So it's, um, I would say from that side, it gets to be a little bit kind of challenging, but at the same time, No, I mean, we continued to advance. I mean, from the, uh, no, from the actual technical controls, solutions perspective, you know, You know, we talked about it. They're going, we're getting better with automation, doing the things that the humans used to do, automating that a little bit more, letting technology do some of that mundane, everyday kind of grind activities that we would as humans would do it, take us a little bit longer. Push that off. Let the actual technology controls deal with that so that you can focus like you had mentioned before on those higher level you know, issues and also the overall sort of strategy on either howto actually not allow the officer to come in or haven't determined once they're in and how quickly will be able to get them out. >> You know, we talked. We have a panel of seashells that we talk to, and we were running a you know, surveys through them through the Cube insights Most see says, we talk Thio after they won't want to talk off the record. I don't want anyone know they work for. They all talked him. They say, Look, I'm bombarded with more and more security solutions. I'm actually trying to reduce the number of suppliers and increase the number of partners, and this is nuanced point. But to your what you're getting at is a tsunami of new things, new threats, new solutions that could be either features or platforms or tools, whatever. But most si SOS wanna build an engineering team. They wanna have full stack developers on site. They wanna have compliance team's investigative teams, situational awareness teams. And they want a partner with with suppliers where they went partners, not just suppliers. So reduce the number suppliers, increase the partners. What's your take on that year? A big partner. A lot of the biggest companies you >> get in that state spring. Yeah. I mean, that's that's actually really our whole strategy. Overall strategy for Ford. Annette is, and that's why we came up with this security fabric. We know that skills are really not as not as prevalent as that they actually need to be. And of course, you know there's not endless amounts of money as well, right? And you want to be able to get these particular security controls to talk to each other, and this is why we built this security fabric. We want to make sure that the controls that we're actually gonna build him, and we have quite a few different types of, you know, security controls that work together to give you the visibility that you're really looking for, and then years Ah, you know, trusted partner that you can actually kind of come to And we can work with you on one identifying the different types of ways the adversaries air moving into the environment and ensuring that we have security controls in place to be able to thwart the threat. Actor playbook. Making sure that we have a defensive playbook that aligns with those actual ttp is in the offensive playbook, and we can actually either detect or ultimately protect against that malicious activity. >> Tony G. Thanks for sharing your insights here on the cube conversation. We'll have to come back to you on some of these follow on conversations. Love to get your thoughts on Observe ability. Visibility on. Get into this. What kind of platforms are needed to go this next generation with cloud security and surface area being so massive? So thanks for spending the time. Appreciate it. >> Thanks a lot, Right. We only have >> a great time in Vegas. This is Cube conversation. I'm John for here in Palo Alto. Tony G with Fortinet in Las Vegas. Thanks for watching

>> Produced from the Cube studios. This's strong by science, in depth conversations about science based training, sports performance and all things health and wellness. Here's your hose, Max Marzo. I'm with >> the one and only Cory Slush Inger Cory is the director of men's sorry, director of performance from men's basketball at Stanford University. Good friend of mine, extremely passionate human. And for those you don't know former college basketball Hooper Corey really happened. Happy on a day to thank you for being here. >> No, man, it's an absolute pleasure. Me, Max. It's It's kind of crazy how our relationship has evolved throughout the years. Ah, start with Diem. You know, that's how it usually goes, the way your T shirt and he's got hair. So I wish I was that God, like I got it down here, but I got it out talk. So don't worry, Max. I'm going to make you a T shirt and I'm sending Teo. You said >> make a T shirt. I >> will wear >> until you plant cast with you again. >> Be careful with the pick. Might be >> way careful with that. Wait. Speaking of that, Corey, I mean, before we went on air here, you have a little story about your beard. And not to say you're only known for the beard, but the beer definitely is a staple in the slashing. Your appearance give me back for that. I want to hear it, and they will dive into some of the science. >> Yeah, man. So as far as the beard, I mean, it started at you. Maybe we're on a Spanish tour went overseas, and I did. One of those crazy handlebar mustache is right. I mean, it was gnarly, but being overseas just didn't shave, right? I mean, we're there for almost a week and a half, and I just started growing out the stubble. And then people are like, keep it going. And so I kept going and we were winning a lot of games. And then we end up winning a championship. And so it became like the tournament beard or became like the season beard. And so I just kept rolling it from there, and yeah, that's that's kind of where the beard is stated for now. And then when I realized, like if I could, it almost looks like a cancer patient. So I needed a key because he's blond eyebrows, man from five feet away. It looks like I'm ball period like I can't grow here. So, yeah, that's where the beard states is at this point. >> Well, Iet's fifty. I'm getting mine going. I'm not going to your caliber. I keep it trimmed, but it makes me feel like I'm a scientist or something. If I have a beard, makes you more intelligent, but getting off the topic here. When it comes to developing anybody, people say, you know, athletes, athletes, athletes athletes are what zero point zero zero one percent of population when it comes to developing anybody at all. We got talking about the bass aspects of human movement human development. You have an interesting take on this, and I don't want to spoil it for the listeners. I'd rather have you say it first, cause I'll just bastardized and screw it up. You're going to take on developing anybody regardless if they're an athlete or just general population, >> right? I mean, if you look through human evolution one or two things that we used to do, I used to farm. We used to kill things with our hands. We used to climb, you know, we used to throw things, you know? I mean, look at the the early Olympics, right? I mean, that's basically what the events wass. He wrestled someone. You ran faster than someone. You ran further than someone, and you threw some things. I and basically that's what human capacity is. So my goal before we actually trained them to be better athletes, is to make them better humans first, because if I can express their ability to be a better human, then they will be able to express their ability to be a better athlete. >> Joshua and with those movements, selections. If you have unique choice food people who don't follow up Instagram better weigh on your instagram handle at the end. But the selections of exercises you pick, it's not traditional a sense. Let's load a bar up. Let's do a hand claim you really take ownership of different shaped objects for that way, whether it be a yoke, whether it be a kettle bell, how do you come up with the most movements? Elections? What goes into that decision making? And for any individual out there, whether they are fast ball player who's seven one or a guy who's five eight, how do you decide which of those implements are best fitted for you? >> Well, everything that shaped the way I believe is one hundred ten percent based off my environment. And look, I played college basketball. Don't look at my stats. I was not that good, but I trained in or I've played with, and now for ten years I've trained that basketball athletic population, so you can imagine with me. Okay, I'm five foot ten. Very average, at best, especially with my links, man. Now imagine six foot six, but a seven foot two weeks man and all those things that I was good at, clean snatched jerk. You know, I was a purist in the beginning. I mean, of course I was right. I was just learning what strength iss How to be strong. Now, I'm trying to imagine further. Like, how do I have impact? How do I have quote unquote transfer? What? I'm trying to load these freaks. I mean, these guys are not normal human beings, right? They got seven foot two wings fans and short torso, so their levers are crazy. So now I'm asking them to do the same things that got me strong. Being at five. Ten, it just doesn't make much sense to me now, Not saying they don't have the capacity to do it mean help. Be honest with you. Some of my best weightlifters actually been seven foot tall, But that being said, if there's a way I can load them, that makes a lot more sense. That's easy to teach. I could do it often, and it's right in their comfort zone now, not comfort as in like we're not training hard, but like in their center of mass, where they can actually manipulate loads heavy loads at that with decent speeds. Then, yeah, I'm going to do that. So, for instance, we look at a bar bell, clean snatches all good. Why can't we do the same intent with a trap door? I mean, we could still pull. We could still triple extend and then we can still catch in that power position. The only thing that changes is the complexity of the movement. Now I'm not manipulating myself around a straight bar bell. It's in my centre of mass. And now I, Khun Express quote unquote force. Ah, lot more efficient, Effective. So now I can load it more loaded faster and do less teaching. Yeah, I do that. That makes a lot of things So that's really what it came from. And then to be honest with you, But how do you experience that light? How do you know a seven foot feels like? How do you know? And so you know, I've dabbled town some ways too. Open up my consciousness, if you will, to allow me to feel that ord, allow the imagination, my creativity to tryto understand what that could feel like. And then, of course, obviously feedback from my athletes. But I mean, why you always see, like the old school dues were just like, Oh, this is weak. This is squad. We we box what we what do we do? Whatever to get strong. But it's like, you know, it makes sense. If you're five foot six, it doesn't make much sense if your seven foot tall so you've got a truly find ways to experience it yourself. And now by the means that you do that probably not going to talk about on this podcast. But the way I did it work. >> Yeah, well, we'll refrain from diving that specific. I'd appreciate it on because to each his own one of the things you mentioned like talking about Hooper's I played basketball. I played your Batch three point shooter. Anyone's listening, too, By the way, when my feet are set, I'm not. I'm not an athlete, but I could shoot the shit out of basketball. I'LL be very blunt with you. I've >> been on the receiving end of that on one of our own game. You don't have to talk when you busted my ask way >> down to like. A lot of basketball players are bad movers, and what I mean by that it's their very good when you put a ball in their hands. That is something you talked about, too. But when you get them in a dance room right there, a lot different than football players and I mean by that is you don't see a bad end zone celebration, right? Want touchdown dances look really good, Odell Beckham being very soon and a lot of it's because those patterns are done without a ball in their hand. This is my opinion and they're very primal and natural with a minute and basketball everything's doing the ball in their hand and then when they start to move, especially because they're developing this, you starts. We're like a third rate. Now they have to only play basketball. And typically you don't play football and basketball, especially football. The high level, because you know you prepping for the basketball season itself. >> You get that deal in Scotland. Shit, bro, >> You have to play basketball for every waking hour the next fifteen years to get there. I'm kidding, but I'm thinking about my head is we're not exposed to those different movement. Parents were stuck in this ninety foot unless you're how light is forty six feet, something like that with court that really constrains how we move. And then you put someone in a waiting room where all the son of dealing with external loads and very unique movement patterns you get guys who just looked walking and I think you talked about this on different podcast, but I want to get into a little bit. Here was, I think so. That stems from our coaching of a young athletes and our physical education that we no longer does. Have we used to have back in the day and how that's really affecting athletes as they get older. >> I couldn't agree more. I mean, I get these quote unquote specialized athletes. And to be honest with you, I don't have athletes like I have guys who have a basketball in their hand. They got really long levers and they have some skill, right? They have some skill to be able to go from point A to point B and put on orange round ball into a cellar. That's that's so happen to be ten foot off the ground. That's what I have. I don't have a true athlete who can pick things up off the floor who could sit down on the floor and stand up, who can throw things who can sprint, who could jump onto things. I mean, some of the best vertical jumps that you see in basketball are not even close to what you would see in football and track and field. When you think this is a sport with the high flyers counter movement, jump hands on hips averages that I've seen on teams eighteen inches and everybody is like Oh, that's terrible But that's a true counter movement jump with long levers. So now if we add some momentum to that and add a seven foot two wingspan and then all of a sudden their elbows above the ramp. Right? So that's the difference we get. We see this a NRI or this false thought, or this false vision of what athleticism is because they're so long. But in reality. And then you put a bunch of cornerbacks out there that would be really special to see, because these are guys that are like five foot ten and the most explosive fast dude you've ever seen. There's don't have the skill to play basketball. So you know, with the way we are, physical education is set up now, obviously has been chopped in half, half, half so no more education. Physical education is what we get to. They only play one sport. They sit in chairs that they're not really made to be. They live in this wart western society where every chair they sit in Is that it? His ninety, which for them is more like this, right? And then they get up and down on these beds that their feet are hanging off of. So I don't know what sleep looks like for that. And if you saw my guys get on an airplane, a commercial airplane, you would be cringing the entire time because they're literally bundled up like this. And so not on ly. Are we trying to correct childhood development? I'm trying to correct what they deal with on a daily basis. Just walking the class. We watching my guys duck through door frames constantly. It is like some some of them are guards and they're ducking through frames. And you're just like I don't know how you've made it this far without knocking yourself out. So there's so many that it's really all about the environment and her. When I've trained my athletes, it's all about giving them the environment they have never had. So that's why we utilize the resting room. The gymnastics room. It's soft had so they know, so they don't necessarily fear the ground. They don't fear their interactions gravity. So now I'm giving them the ability to learn how to change levels. You know, little guys. So I don't see six foot ten guys wrestling, right? So I have an opportunity. Now they learn how to interact and change levels, and then even more so you put somebody with them. So now we're like pushing and pulling, just like you see in football. So now they know where they put their feet. So now we're not stepping on feet constantly looking. I mean, God, Hey, these guys are like because sixteen seventeen shoes like, of course, I'm going to step on each other's speed. But if they have that awareness in that sense of where other people are, then maybe they don't make that misstep. Or maybe they get their self out of harm's way and then even more so just learning how to fall. They learn how to fall properly from standing toe floor transitions. Then, when they jumped through the air at forty two inch words, whatever you see, that's make believe for you. Switch vertical right word, but and then they get hit in the air, and now they've got to figure out the most effective way. Not the break there. Nash. Well, most of the guys are going to do everything they can to stay on their feet. Well, that's where you want to get blown out, right? So now if I can give them a tumbling strategy, so now that they can interact with the floor a lot more smoother, athletic, well, then maybe they have a chance to not get hurt and be be back in the action, right? So it's performance enhancing as well as injury mitigation. >> I >> know that. I mean, I don't know where to begin. I have about nine comments off that. First. I love the idea of talking about how these guys are living in a world built for some one, five, ten. I'm six two and Kelsey, my girlfriend. But, hey, can you reach above and grab the top? Can apostle whatever I'm like? Yeah, Okay. But you look at a guy until you actually play hoops. I think, and really appreciate how big these dudes are. You play. It's a guy who's seven one. You look at him and go, Oh, my gosh, like that's at a different human. And then you know his shoe size next to you and you shake his hand and you get to the other side of his hand. You start to understand, like, who we dealing with here, right? You look at these, you know the body needs to heal when it goes into a stress or whatever, and we're putting these guys in positions that the body would not otherwise deem for recovery right now, like this call. Time out. Is that the funniest thing? MBA timeouts. Aside from LeBron James, that's got the nine foot chair right? These guys come out and these will stools that are too small for meaning, and >> so they're not really >> rusting. And you got a dude who's trying to recover his heart rate, but really the whole time, he's in a hip flexion. He's never been in the past, you know, thirty years, right? And if you're thinking about really taking care of an athlete, we spend so much time in the weight room and all this great stuff we can do. So Muchmore. If we had a liberty, too, I use we usually more like you, um, to you, then develop an environment that conducive to them. I know University. Kentucky did that. If you look at their dorm rooms, they had ESPN going on two years ago when they built at the new facility. For the basketball players, the sinks were higher, the magical tired, they were longer. And if you ever wash a guy who's seven foot dragging on the water fountain, I mean the amount of spinal flexion he has to go under. It's ridiculous. The guy's curling up in a C. And I mean, that's crazy to think about because the whole time on the way we were talking about how do we get these guys in a position that they can function successfully? And right now it's like optimally because obviously would have been something we did fifteen years ago to get in a position, right? But how do we get them to be successful? So I pose the question to your court. I'm gonna give you the keys to the castle. The kingdom. Okay, Philip, um, maybe not the whole environment. But there's three things you like to change the outside of the weight room that you had the crystal ball and you could go either back in time more just socially. Okay. I want to change his guys. You know, the size of his car. You know that the chair he sits and we're three things that you pick and dio >> number one. I would get them involved and dance or martial arts as their first sport. That would be probably number one so or gymnastics something. I don't care how tall you are like Who cares if you're not trying Win a gold medal at three, Right? Is just learning how to do those things right? Understanding your body number two. I would change how physical education is and in western society, um, and then number three. Let's give you something actual physical number three. If I could make what? I >> got some for you. Well, you're thinking, OK, I got you want to think your third for me? Basketball players eat horribly. You're so single, teacher. Yeah, basketball players, at least by team. And I will make this universal blanket statement. They just don't like to eat for some reason. Right? Who for? Three hours and drinking game and call it good. And I don't get it like I have a fat ass. My play. I gained weight in season. Really? Team he'll know what a food I take over which you're pulling their postgame meals. And that's when they remove the snack girl. Remember the snack role when, uh, >> you know, you have todo I had Taco Bell, bro. Like we won. We got talking about, you know? So I asked the level Appalachia, which we suck. >> I think I'm going to go a little. Can't you apologize? We're going to go play and that's a D three hoops. That's finest. We're rolling to a game. It's up north took a four hour drive and we stopped at the rude crib an hour and a half before taking a corner booth buffet of ribs. They got a bunch of island boys here. The rib crib you bring up platters were basically, you know, and capacity. And when they get like five points because our center had to pull out the throat at halftime. >> Yeah, it is. Did you ever have to drive the team ban? Because I have ways in the backseat in the bag who thought that was, like level once again, level athlete, that unreal. But I would say that the third thing Don't be wrong. Yes, food. But if there's a way, I mean, if there's a truly economical way across the board to just look, it got health, we could do that, don't care. But I can change your environment that could change your internal environment and will, And the number one is if I can just poof your gut and I can look at everything, then that will be the number one, because just a little moving world. But I don't know how you're absorbing it. I don't know what's going on. And then you wantto talk about these kids that you know, a phD or these kids that are super restless. Well, I think it starts with the gut, because if you're got health sucks, so does this. So that would be the third thing. >> No, that's crazy That way. May I have a little bit of experience is our company. I don't deal with the actual read now that the things I've learned and seeing the idea of taking that integrated approach. So hey, let's actually look at your stomach. Yes, you have to collect your poop three times a day, and I'm sorry. If you're going to do that, you can start to look at what you produced and way of excreting and whether or not you're absorbing what you need to absorb. And we start looking at injuries and no tendon, health and muscle tissue, everything as a holistic approach. What? We gotta look at the internal environment if any of our environments messed up inside and we're trying to impose a stressor on the body. But we have no idea what the internal systems like, and you have certain deficiencies or certain aspects that your lack and these were certain areas where it again people go, Oh, that's not scientific. There's no study. Well, unfortunately, if you understand complex systems and their dynamic interactions and not to get too detail, I'Ll explain it as simple as I can. But what happens is we have an outcome like a strange angle, and we say, Oh, and go weak angle get hurt, right? Well, kind of grooming. Or maybe it's ankle week. That's a risk factor. Athlete didn't sleep enough the past three nights. Risk factor Athlete had some sort of physical contact during the game. That critter there system risk factor athlete. Nutritionally, it wasn't recovering from previous workouts and games. Risk factors so happens of all these risk factors, and that's just a very there's no all the risk factors. A lot involved, all but these risk factors come about and then we have the probabilistic nature of something toe happen. So oh, how likely is it that something bad will go wrong and we see the last straw on the camel's back sprain an ankle and we go a week. But maybe it's didn't sleep enough Ankle week. All this other stuff and that ankle sprain. For people interested in complex systems, it's called an emergent pattern. So there's a common pattern that occurs when you have things go wrong. So if the money C l it's like, Oh, gluten medias is weak knee Val Agus. All right, you're a muscular control all these things that go into and nothing can pinpoint it. So if we're including these bomber, you know about mechanical factors and Eve Alvis, why aren't we including some internal factors like gut health Or, you know, the blood wood for the micro nutrient efficient season? Yes, I know I'm not versed enough to speak on micronutrient deficiencies and our interactions off, you know, health and whatnot. But something as simple as college in environments haven't adequate vitamin C for, you know, ten and healing instead of, you know, repair is obviously a factor. And so when we start looking the bottom, we gotta look at the big picture. It's not just how your knee bends. It's not how you shoot a jump shot. It's not how you land every time. >> Where are you? Our body is so much more resilient and durable than you. Give it credit for me. We've survived as a species. We're a very long time. You're very harsh conditions and you're going to tell me it's that one jump that got you one job. One job is the one that Oh, that needs a little dalliance. That's the one that got you. I mean, if you super slow mo A lot of these great expressions of physical capacity in sport it was you would be like, Oh, my God, they're neither this there that But in reality, like that's I'm close to the reason why they like break or don't Break. And Jordan shallow, brilliant dude, He gave me this metaphor. He was saying to Philip, a pond, Well, it's like this fungus that will Philip a pond and it doubles its size every day. So if it starts off it like, you know, point two, then the next day be point for and he asked me, he's like, Okay, if it's going to Philip in thirty days, Philip, the whole pond, What's the day? It's half full. Then I thought for a second it took me a lot longer than I should have thought about it. But he's like, but he an injection goes day twenty nine. I >> don't want an answer, by the way. >> Yeah, was like Day twenty nine I. That's why I look at the human body like that is literally the last thing and then pull. And so it's all these. We could have had all these interventions from day to today twenty eight or day twenty nine. Even the notes that one just last. Ah, strong. The camel's back to just there goes, you know, And that's what's great about being in the collegiate setting. And being a Stanford is we have a lot of safety nets for our safety, and that's if you will. So we try to have as many quote unquote KP eyes and objective measurements to give us an idea of what could possibly happen. But in reality, it's still the dynamic environment, so I don't understand. Like I can't account for school. I can't account for their sleep. I mean, we could through, like, grouper or or whatever, but it's not realistic and thine and are setting and in their gut hell's like way picking up poop. Three times a day. They were not drawn blood once. We're not doing these things. So unless we're doing that, then you're just trying to create most resilient, durable human beings so they can withstand the stressors some more than others. But hopefully have a successful season. >> No, that's like I hate to break it to people. We don't know what we're doing. We're doing our best. I think chase Wells with him. A Stanford. Get a great line, he said. We can't guarantee success. We can almost guarantee you're not guaranteed to fail. And what I mean by that is that you can't always KP eyes and really, we're looking at. If you jump nine inches, we're probably not going to be very good basketball unless you're seven. No, right. And so we're looking at the human system as a means of understanding what is going on really lagged behind in regards to your performance assessment and what might be hindering you in regards to launch into no tracking? Can I get a little bit of data? A lot? The way explain it is kind of like I don't ask my girlfriend Kelsey, how she's doing. Once a week, you know. I asked her every day and why I asked that every day is to realize, you know, all my clothes that I left out pissing her off. You know, I did. I forget that we're supposed to go on a date last night. You know, I might not have forgot a wallet last night. We went to dinner from now on, Accent, all supposed to buy. But that's a true story. WeII >> brought up. I mean, that's the most important thing is you gotta have feedback daily, right? And wait here. It's really simple. We take a controlled environment, do some things in it before they go into a dynamic environment, which is basketball games of basketball practice. So what we do is we call that microdot. It's our way of training. Every day, in some form or fashion, these individuals come into their work, their human capacity, a Siri's, if you will. Then after that, they go into their B series, which is complex. This is really what I know what's going on. I don't get me wrong when they walk in to get their weight, are joking or making eye contact and get that handshake. How firm is that handshake thes air, All the quantitative things that I'm trying to pick up as they're coming through the door. Then you watch them say We're hitting clean, complex and they're going through the motions and their consulate changing grip or or the pool isn't looking too good, and any sharp today will boom. That's my control Now. It's not the most objective feedback, but at least it's a constant. And so that's my way of having once against safety nets from a safety nets and then weekly or depending on how many games we have that we do, our force plate jumps. So once again, another safety net, and then we have our connects on day. So our GPS data that they do on the practice gym once again any one of those in isolation doesn't tell me much. But if I have a bunch of them, then I can at least paint a better picture from quantitative qualitative, and then I can go and knit. Pick what I think they're intervention may need to be, and so it's not going to be perfect, not even close, but as long as you have a constant and yours is beautiful. Like you said, Just something simple. You get daily. Hey, how are you doing? And you know how they express that. I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I'm cool. I'm great. Like, you know, what there was in flux is are like, you know what? They're how they're truly feeling. Just based off that one question alone. But once again, if you can set up your system or your program or whatever toe have safety nets for your safety nets, then I think you can You can catch a >> lot of those along the way. >> Yeah. No, that makes sense. It's how you provide context to a situation. And the more information that we can apply that we didn't classifier more to a system like jumping is, you know, your lower body strength and your verbal expressions, your most emotional state on DH, maybe even sweep or other things that go into that, the more we could understand what's actually happening to the person. So I was kind of really bad for a second. You said some of micro dose in and term overdose. You refer into training a little bit often. Yep. And Corey is well known for this and for those at home listening, I'm going to my best to explain it. Short weeks. I got a question off of it. If you know, explains it will stay here for another hour and a half because great to listen to. But I want Teo a little bit of a different direction off of athletics about it. Firstly, micro doses the idea that we're applying a moderate level toe, low level stressor consistently, and that adaptation occurs from the aggravation off those dresses over a period of time. So we're never going to Hi, we're never going to low. And the idea is that training in the weight room is only one small piece of your life. They even programmed High Day, and you don't sleep that night or you have emotional stressor for your case, your practice. Then all of a sudden, that high, big, magnified and starts spilling over the bar and becomes too much the idea of micro dozing, especially a non controlled external environment where it's called life, and we're trying to apply enough that you can handle. If someone's feeling good, then they can push a little bit that they themselves. Now My question for you, Cory, is I love an athletic sense. I also see it being very applicable to anyone out there general population and especially in terms of I got two things. Us too. In terms of one, someone learned a movement. You get a chance to do it often and daily and someone who wants to learn how to be in the weight room. And secondly, because there are, let's say we do it eight out of ten days. If you only miss one day, you're only missing ten percent of your entire workout, right? So instead of doing looking at this whole one workout one day, you look at like a ten day period. If you got eight days of pick from and you just can't do one, you only missed ten percent versus if you only had five days of pick one and you miss one, you missed twenty percent, right? And so now we have the ability to be more flexible in our environment. So how does that fit in like a general population? If it was my dad or my girlfriend trying to learn howto use some of this micro dose in the weight room. How do you plan? >> So one hundred percent with micro dozing. The reason why it came about was it was a solution to a problem. My problem is I don't have enough exposure to my guys. So how do I create more training frequency? And now we got rid of warm up something that was just kind of getting them ready for practice. That kind of don't care about it. The coach hated seen me do it. I personally hated doing it. So now it was a solution. What it turned into was motor learning. Now you want to learn how to train, will do it all the time. So that's where complex comes in. It's the value of orcs work, right? So basically, you take a bar bill and you do every movement that you would do in a weight room, in some sense, in one set, so you'd hinge You do a hip flexion. You do a press, do a pool. If I break down each one of those into isolation, it would look like already else Squad, Polish, military, press or row, those air all movements that you would do and if you separated each exercise in an isolation you would go more resistance on, just like you would see in general fitness, right? Like we're going to do three sets of ten on bench press or three sets a tent on back squad. Well, that's great. How about we just put it all in one and now we have more exposure. So now I'm learning how to do the movements, and then you can't tell me that doing one thing once a week is actually going to make you learn the movement. So now you learn those little small video sequences that you see with thirty year experience power lifters who truly understand, like, move from body, this foot stance, or this is how I start to hinge here within my squat X degree. And that's how they perfected is because they have so much exposure to it. So we're doing the same thing. We're just trying to create exposure at lower thresholds and and in doing it often now as faras general population, what's the number one concern? But I don't have enough time. Oh, really? You don't have a thirty minute today, twenty to thirty minutes a day to not kind ofwork. Now. Every day I call B s. I say You just don't want to train. So that's where my producing to me is beautiful in the general population is because it's living the way you start your day. It's lunch, or it's when you get off work. Perfect. You can pick any of those three slots twenty, thirty minutes. You can eat and shower and get backto work or before work. So you can't tell me that everybody doesn't have that situation. So now, creating training frequency, you're getting enough volume throughout the week. Now we have on and then most importantly, like you brought up if I just had to miss that one day, it's ten percent of my training like it's not well, only train twice a week, So fifty percent of my training is gone. So that's where I think it's beautiful. And that's where he could work from general population to the most elite athletes in the world and the reason why I say the most elite athletes in the world because I just so happen to train to of So I do it with all these populations

>> From the ARIA Resort in Las Vegas, it's theCube. Covering AWS Marketplace. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCube. We are at AWS Reinvent 2018. We got to get a number, I don't know how many people are here, but Vegas is packed. I think it's in six different venues tonight. We're at the ARIA at the hub with the AWS Marketplace & Service Catalog Experience, kicking everything off. We're excited to be joined by cube alumni. Last we saw him, I think it was in San Francisco Summit 2017. Carl Krupitzer, the CEO of ThingLogix. Carl, great to see you. >> Thank you it's great to be here. >> So I think you were saying before we turned the cameras on, you came early days. This whole piece here was not even as big a the room we're in. >> Right well we were part of the service launch for IoT, and that was just a few years ago, and it's exponentially bigger. Yeah. Just the expo, this is not even the expo floor right? And this is bigger than what we had originally. So excited to see it grow. >> So IoT keeps growing, growing, growing. That's all we hear about. In Industrial IoT, we did the Industrial IoT launch with GE back in better days. For them, huge opportunity. Really seeing a lot of momentum. What are some of the observations you're seeing actually out in marketplace? >> You know it's interesting. When we first started with the IoT service offering for AWS, there was a lot of proof of concepts going on, a lot of people kind of hacking their way through understanding what IoT is and how it could impact their business. And I think we've gotten to the point now where we're seeing more production roll-outs with very considerate business drivers behind it. >> Right. I think it's funny you're talking about doing some research for this, and you guys are really specific. I love it. It's not Greenfield projects you know? Have specific design objectives, have specific KPIs, have specific kind of ideas about what the functionality you want before you just kind of jump into IoT space with two feet. >> Right. Yeah we strongly discourage companies from just jumping in with both feet just because right? It's an expensive undertaking IoT, and it has the potential to really change your business for the better if you do it well. >> So where are you seeing the most uptake? Or maybe that surprises you the most in these early days? Kind of industry wise? >> We see a lot of creative use cases starting to come up. Kind of that secondary use of data, and one of the things that we've-- we kind of describe our customers having a life cycle of IoT right? They come in to solve a specific problem with us, which is usually a scalability, or a go to market issue. And then very quickly, they kind of get to the art of the possible. What can we do next? And we see a lot of companies really getting creative with the way they do things. From charging with-- using our FID tags in sub-Saharan Africa for water to solar power and things like that. It's interesting to see companies that didn't exist a few years ago, and couldn't have existed a few years ago, really kind of getting a lot of traction now. >> Right. It's funny we did an interview with Zebra Sports a few years ago actually now. And they're the one that's old RFID technology that put the pads in the shoulder pads for all the NFL players. They're on the refs, they're in the balls. It is such a cool way to apply on old technology to a new application and then really open up this completely different kind of consumer experience in watching sports. When you've got all this additional data about how fast are they running and what's their acceleration. And I think they had one example where they showed a guy in an interception. They had the little line tracker. Before he'd gotten all the way back in, it was a pick six. It's unbelievable now with this data. >> Our Middle Eastern group is actually doing a pilot right now for camel racing. So we're doing telemetry attached to the camels that are running around the tracks. We're getting speed and heart rate and those sorts of things. So it's everywhere right? >> I love it. Camel racing. So we're here at the AWS Marketplace Experience. So tell us a little bit about how's it working with AWS. How's the the marketplace fit within your entire kind of go to market strategy? >> Well so for us, the marketplace is really key to our go to market strategy right? I mean we're a small company and we-- our sales team is really kind of focused on helping customers solve problems and the marketplace really offers us the ability to not have to deal with a lot of the infrastructure things of servicing a customer right? They can go there, they can self sign up, they can implement the platform, our technology platform on their own and then billing is taken off of our plate. So it's not something that we have to have a bunch of resources dedicated to. >> Is there still a big services component though, that you still have to come in to help them as you say kind of define nice projects and good KPI's and kind of good places to start? Or do they often times on the marketplace purchase just go off to the races on their own? >> So it's a combination. If companies are looking to solve a specific problem with an IoT platform like Foundry, it's definitely a self implementable thing and it's becoming more and more self implementable. Foundry really deploys into a customers account using Cloud formation, and Cloud formation templates allow us to kind of create these customized solutions that can then be deployed. So it's-- we're getting a combination of both. >> Yeah, and I would imagine it's taken you into all kinds of markets that you just don't-- you just don't have the manpower to cover when you have a distribution partner at EWS. >> Yeah it's made things a lot faster for us to be able to spin up vertical solutions or specific offerings for a particular large customer. Marketplace can take care of all of the infrastructure on that. >> Alright so what are you looking for here at Reinvent 2018? You've been coming to these things for awhile. I know Andy's tweeting out, his keynote is ready to have the chicken wing contest I think, last night at midnight. Too late for me, I didn't make it. (laughs) >> For us I mean, some of the more exciting things that are out there are the emergence of server-less right? You see server-less, all of those AWS services really taking off. >> Right. >> But there's also the Sumarian, the ARVR's really kind of exploding. So for us it's really about, this is a great place for us to see the direction that AWS is heading and then make sure that our offering, and our technology is layered on top of that appropriately. >> And what are you hearing from your customers about Edge? All the talk about Edge and there's some fudd I think going about how does Edge work with Cloud and to me it's like two completely separate technology applications, but then you know what you're trying to accomplish. As kind of the buzzwords, Edge gets beyond the buzz and actually starts to be implemented, what do you kind of seeing and how's that working together with some of the services that Amazon's got? >> I mean Edge architecture's are an important component to a solution. Especially solutions that require real time data processing and decision making at the shop floor or whatever you have. AWS has taken very big strides toward creating service offerings and products down at the Edge that interface well with the Cloud. So for us, our perspective on it is that the Edge is really a reflection of the business logic and the processes and things that we define and build for a customer. Because ultimately those Edge processes have to feed the enterprise processes, which is what we really focus on right? How do we get machine data into enterprise systems? So Edge technology for us is definitely a consideration and when we build our select technology solutions, we look at Edge as a component in that architecture and we try to meet the needs of the customers specific use case when it comes to Edge. >> Right. Yeah it's not killing the Cloud. Who said that? - Right. >> So silly. >> Yeah it can't kill it. >> It's not slowing down this thing. >> Right. Alright Carl well thanks for taking a few minutes and have great Reinvent. >> Yeah thank you. - [Jeff] Hydrate. >> Thanks for your time. Definitely. - They say hydrate. Alright he's Carl, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCube. We're at AWS Marketplace inservice catalog experience. We're at the Aria in the quads. Stop on by. Thanks for watching we'll see you next time.

live from Gillette Stadium in Foxboro Massachusetts extracting the signal from the noise it's the kue covering Vitas New England winter warmer 2016 now your host Stu minimum welcome back to the cube I'm Stu miniman with Wikibon com we are here at the 2016 v tug winter warmer at Gillette Stadium home of the New England Patriots and very excited to have a patriot Hall of Famer three-time Super Bowl champion number 80 Troy brown Troy thank you so much for stopping by oh man thank you for having me on I appreciate it alright so so so Troy you know we got a bunch of geeks here and they they they we talked about you know their jobs are changing a lot and you know the question I have for you is you did so many different jobs when you're on the Patriot you know how do you manage that how do you go about that from a mindset i mean i think so many of the job you did we're so specialized never spent years doing it yet you know you excelled in a lot of different positions i think first of all i think the coach bill belichick you know I think he does a good job of evaluating is his people and his players and the people that work for them and think about him he never asked an individual to do more than they can handle and I think I was one of those individuals that he saw that could you know didn't get her out about too many different things that didn't get seemed like I was overwhelmed at any moment with the job that I was at already asked to do and if I had to do multiple jobs then I would probably be one of those guys that could handle that type of situation so it started with him and in me I guess it was just my personality and my work havoc and my work ethic and just never letting the opponent know that I was a little bit shaken a little bit weary a little bit tired at times and I just continue to chip away and be my job and not you know and I took a lot of pride in being able to manage and do a lot of different things at one time and and then really accelerate yeah so you saw the transformation in the Patriot organization I mean you know it great organization here in New England but you know we were living in a phenomenal time for the Patriots over the last 20 years it and what do you attribute that that transformation to well I think it started you know you look at when Robert crab bought the team in 94 which I was here year before he bought the team in 93 I was glad to be true Bledsoe and parcels are the first year and that really Parcells really kind of got people around here excited about football I think for the first time they were having you know capacity crowds at training camp out at Bryant college you know something they never did before I mean you're talking about a team that won two games the year prior they were two and 14 and things got so lucky winning those two games in 1992 so you bringing a guy that's you know when a couple super bowls with the Giants high-profile guy gets everybody excited about the possibility of winning and I think things started to change then and then you bring in a hands-on owner because I believe James awethu wine was the previous owner that he bought the team from and lived in st. Louis it can't be hands-on when you you know live you know half the country away from from here so he bought the team and bought the local guy and again that the enthusiasm goes through the roof and expectations in through the roof we make the playoffs in 1994 and you know the things happen they don't get along and then when you go through another coach Pete Carroll for three years and you bring in Belo check and he drives a young quarterback by the name of Tom Brady and you know those types of things those people those guys able to handle different things and different jobs as well you know and you couple that with you surround them with good people like myself david patten Antwone Smith I laws or the lawyer milloy Rodney Harrison guys that kind of embody the Patriot Way and you get what you have today and it all started with the fact that mr. Kraft and Bill Belichick now been together with 15 16 years and I think you look across the NFL across any sport you don't see the type of longevity and the type of continuity that those who have and you throw on Tom Brady into that mixers been along for that entire ride as well you just think you're not going to find out in any other sport any other team maybe a couple here you notice end Antonio Spurs no in longevity I believe it is the key and you have to build that you know see you see too many owners that throwing the town were too quick yeah you know what the young coast is trying to build a team in the system yeah so I have to ask you if you had to choose one for 15 years pray to your Belichick for 15 years yeah 15 years that maybe Brady because you know it eventually will come to an end you know Bella chikan probably coach I want to know one only known for longer than 15 years we had to choose one for 15 years I guess I'll go with Brady but you know I don't think I know if one works not the other you know so that's kind of how to be a question that people be asking for many many years to come yeah so personally for you when you look back at your career you know any favorite moments that they have that mean there's so many to so many the franchise for yourself i mean i could think of all the ones that i had the pleasure to say that was a big punt return against the pittsburgh starters yeah AFC championship no well botas me start up the scoring for us yeah that was a big moment that the strip in 06 in the superbowl that year it was a big play yeah able to get us into the AFC championship game this all the Super Bowls that we were part of and then were able to win and all those moments are just so treasured and value about me that is kind of hard to place a place one over the other but you know it was all a lot of great and fantastic moments for us all right so last question I have for you looking at the Patriots today what's your prediction for the Patriots you know going on in the playoffs here going to the AFC champ I think it a bit difficult task Denver's not been a friendly place for the Patriots over the history of this franchise not just now but it is specifics as to why it's so tough to find there I don't know I don't know what it is I mean you could say the altitude but we've been out then we played well at times even there's team this year they played well the first time they went out there had an unfortunate drop punt you know that kind of changed the complexity of the game and things just changed I mean it's that's the kind of luck that we have the last time I played out there was I think 05 I think of something in the divisional round and I fumbled Kevin Faulk fumble Tom Brady threw a pick-six basically and it was like you threw your most dependable players that turned the football over and didn't play well you know how often that would that happen so Rob Gronkowski gets hit in the knee this year so and then lose him for a couple games and his season starts to turn so just so many unfortunate things that happen out there but you have to give Denver a lot of credit as well because you know they come out and they play hard to have a really good defense quarterback that can be really good you know he's a game manager at this point in his career that's a great job of doing it you know and it seemed to rally behind his presence on the field so it'll be a tough task for the Patriots even though I think the Patriots do have the better football team overall it's just been a difficult place for the New England Patriots to get wins yeah in the past I said you have a matchup for the Super Bowl that you're picking I'm picking the Patriots for sure and from what I saw from Carolina last week I got to go with Carolina playing at home against Arizona I think the defense is just too tough and Cam Newton and that run game and that offensive line has just been been pretty remarkable and surprising after losing probably the best offensive weapon in Kelvin Benjamin so yeah well you know a little something about a Carolina versa you know New England Super Bowl so hopefully things will turn out like it did last time try really appreciate you stopping by thank you so much for trying to save the program will be right back here with a wrap-up of the cubes coverage of the V tug 2016 winter warmer thanks so much for watching you