>>Oh, here we go again. Yeah. Here we go again. >>Cube Coverage of AWS re invent continues in a moment.

(upbeat electronic music) >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE, we got a great segment here on taming complexity. Niranjan Ramsunder and Raghu Bongula, Senior Vice President of Engineering TSYS, and Niranjan is the Chief Technology Officer of UST. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on. You've got a great use case here, taming complexity. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you, John, it's a pleasure to be here. >> So this is a great example of some of the major wave we're seeing coming in that were reporting this re:Invent is that this next generation of cloud scale powered by data and business value at the modern application layer, at the top of the new stack, if you will, going to call it that. This is the theme everyone's talking about, you've got Edge, all these things are happening, but at the heart of it is the complexity. So Niranjan, take us through what you guys are doing at UST with Raghu and his journey on the transformation. Set us up. >> Sure, John. Thanks, John, and Raghu, thanks for joining us. So when you look at AWS, John, you got it right. The situation has matured to a level where the real complex applications, the one which needs low latency, high throughput are now moving to the cloud, and concerns about data security, about privacy, about how to manage systems are not in my control are now getting resolved, and an important example of that is what TSYS and Raghu are doing in the sense of really taking their core functionalities, their fundamental business processes and moving it to the cloud. So it has been a great experience for us working with Raghu and the entire TSYS team on how a business function moves. What are the reasons why you would move? What considerations will you have? And then, you know, proving that it really is functional, that is critical because business has to see value. It's not just cloud because it's attractive, it is because cloud has a purpose. So we'd love to hear from Raghu as well on what are the motivations, but that is really what excites us, thanks. >> Raghu, before you get into your, the why on the transformation, I just want to set it up. You guys are running a very big business. You have a lot of business legacy systems built in place, your transforming to the cloud, you can't just kill the old to bring in the new, you got to work together, this is part of the benefit of the cloud. So with that said, take us through the journey, what's the purpose, what's the problem you're trying to solve? Take us through the highlights. >> Sure, John, thank you. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to talk here. So, you know, as I mentioned, I'm Raghu Bongula, I lead the delivery of platform analyzation and cloud migration programs at TSYS. TSYS, which is part of global payments, you know, is focused on payments and card processing for the issuer banks. We are the number one card issuer processor in the United States, and I think we lead in many countries across the world. So we run the most mission critical systems in the financial services. So our platforms are a combination of, you know, low latency workloads which span in thousands of transactions per second and also high-throughput workloads like a high throughput batch workloads, which, you know, which deal with the hundreds and thousands of, you know, transactions per second, you know, and, you know, in the current mainframes. So our challenge has been how to take this systems, you know, which have been so successful for so many years with the cloud, how do we kind of take that? You know, how do we kind of approach that? That has been our challenge. I think we have been, you know, in this journey along with UST to solve those. The motivations for us, you know, from my perspective, to take our platforms to the cloud, you know? There are many, but these are some of them, the first one being the business agility, you know? Right now, I think like any other company who is running on on-premise, they are bound by the infrastructure and you know, the rigid state of the data centers. So cloud provides us agility for us to take advantage of the infrastructure, you know, take advantage of the service (indistinct) build so that we don't have to build it ourself, we can use those Lego blocks to solve high-order problems for example. And so other, you know, advantage we have is the ability for us to offer the solutions across the world. Now today, if we go across the world and try to offer our solutions, you know, we are sometimes, I think, you know, are forced to look in to build a data center, which can be, you know, definitely expensive and also time taking, you know? And we lose the market opportunity in many of those cases. So what cloud does provide, in this case, AWS provides this, with this span of regions they have across the world, it provides us an opportunity for us to kind of quickly take our solution to any of these regions where we don't serve today, okay? And last but not least, the security. So I think security is, you know, is a foremost. The security of what we see in AWS, you know, is, you know, definitely meets our needs and our customers', and you know, we feel that to get that sophistication it's going to be more and more tougher in the on-premise environment. >> That's great stuff. I mean, Niranjan, we're talking about this all the time with cloud. This year and this kind of inflection point is where it goes the next level, you know? I mean, Raghu is running a very successful global payments system, a lot of transactions. So, you know, the metaphors range, you know? "Changing the airplane engine out at 30,000 feet," I've heard that one. That's kind of what's happening here, He's got to be successful. You can't just like put the pause button. >> Yes, and there are more than one, you know, allegory which fits your... One is of course is the airplane engine changing, the second, the pilot is changing as well. So it does, you know, it's not just enough to take care of technology moves and ensure business still runs, but at the same time, the people who are supporting it today work on older technologies, they need to move along with the change so that we don't lose the knowledge, they have the systems. And the one important part where we are contributing to this whole engagement is documenting their systems which have been written over a period of 30 years and ensuring that all the rules and subroutines and the nested loops within that get translated correctly and get tested correctly as they move to the cloud. So it is definitely in the engine, but you know, the entire transformation has to be seamless and business should not know better, it should be nothing happened except that now we're on the cloud, that is really where the fun part is. >> Raghu, I want to ask you, when you guys sit in the room and say, "Okay, we got to do this." What are the key business benefits are expected from this modernization program? I mean, I get the agility, that's, you know, check the box, yeah, we want to be more agile. What does that translate into from a benefits standpoint? >> Yeah, so build that agility for us means, you know, our ability to kind of adapt to the market needs as quickly as possible, which is, you know, we deal with different demographics, different regulatory environments across the world. So if a need arises to quickly build a payment product or a card product to serve a particular industry or a particular domain or a particular vertical, you know? Across the world, we want to be able to kind of quickly put together what we have in a, you know, a marketable solution, okay? So that's what it means for us and the business agility, and we want to be able to do across the world, so if we see an opportunity, you know, anywhere in the world, we want to be able to kind of quickly deploy our solution, tie our Lego pieces, build a product or, you know, configure a product which satisfies that particular vertical or that particular regulatory region across the world. >> All right, question for both of you guys. I would love to ask the same question if you don't mind answering it from the different perspectives that you're taking. What were the major challenges that you guys have anticipated and addressed in this program? Because you know, this is probably going to... I can almost guess how many times we bump up against something that's a little speed bump, it says, "Okay, whoa, okay, how do we do that?" 'Cause remember, it's all net new sometimes should be factoring your... not just re-platforming. So can you share some of the major challenges that you've anticipated and how you've addressed them with this modernization program? >> Sure, I can go first, and then, you know, Niranjan, feel free to add, you know, anything which I would have missed. From my perspective, I think, you know, when we run the most mission critical systems in the financial services, so a lot of customers depend on our systems to kind of perform their day-to-day financial leads, okay? So uptime, high availability are utmost important to us. At the same time, the ability to process through billions and billions of transactions we deal with everyday, you know, that is of utmost importance to us. So the solutions have been running for a long time in the mainframes, tuned for many years, performing at scale, as mentioned again, you know, very low latency with thousands of transactions per second, you know, in case of real time transactions or very high throughput, you know, workloads, then getting hundreds and thousands of transactions per second. So taking, and again, in most cases, are, you know, in our case, they're running as a monolith. Now, how do you take, you know, a system like this and break it down into microservices and apply it on the cloud? And how do you deal with data, for example? So the data is sitting at one place. Now you cannot... what you cannot do is come Monday and turn off everything on the on-premise and put everything on the cloud for something like this, so you need an iterating migration path. How do you build a iteration migration path when the plane is moving and make it happen? I think that has been the challenge. The way we address this, we have built various patterns, you know, to kind of take that right out to the cloud using, you know, a Securus pattern, okay? Using a CDC and a Securus pattern, so we build what we'll call... you know, a framework called data fabric, which allows us to kind of seamlessly migrate applications and where the applicants can live on both ends and successfully, you know, solve the traffic, for example. We build techniques, you know, like pilot testing using pilot testing framework which allows us to kind of do a A/B testing which is the application is running on the cloud, application is running on on-premise, but we run the transaction, we complete it at both locations and make sure that it behaves the way we have anticipated it to behave, for example. So this was some of the challenges we had and we've just gone over some of the techniques we have open in our case to solve that problem. >> Yes, to add to that, John, you know... >> Great by the way, great insight. Awesome, thank you for sharing. >> Sure. To add to that, I think what Raghu was saying and what we found with the project, what is happening is it has fundamental implications to people in their daily lives. You know, someone going to buy milk at the grocery store, I mean, they cannot have their transaction stopped, it is not like I can be 99% right, you have to be right. And therefore it's important that we capture the requirements in the right way and make sure that they are reflected correctly in the target, that's one part. The second part is that we are not, as you heard earlier from Raghu as well, not re-platforming, we are rewriting all of the critical activities because the paradigms have shifted, the way coding is done, the way you are, you know, composing code, and the way your writing functionalities have changed are therefore making sure that the principals have not changed, the functionalities have not changed, but the way of delivery is changing. That continuity of business functionality through the process has been a very interesting part of the project. As far as we are concerned, we're still a work in progress that's still going on and it is really exciting to see how Raghu and the team have got these huge volumes, and they've got a new way of working both happening together and that's what we are happy to participate in. >> Yeah, and just a quick highlight, I want to call out the fact that they are writing their own code, they're getting patents. This is the new normal, right? I mean you got to build it. And this is all software value, this is what cloud does. I do want to give you a chance to explain to the folks UST and what the benefits are for working with you guys as an Amazon implementation partner, what's the benefits that customers get? Obviously, you got migrations like this that are modernizations programs, taming complexity, obviously a key, on account here. What does other customers get from working with you? >> Yeah, so AWS provides all of the technology underpinnings in terms of the functionalities, the functions, which are available out of the box, and, you know, it's all in those category from AWS. You get a lot of capabilities in terms of their architecture and their support for their transformation. What we provide on top of it is a willingness to take ownership for outcomes, that we make sure that what AWS offers is actually working for the end client targeted, for example, TSYS, and make sure that we do it in a time and in a speed which meets business requirements, and taking that ownership for our outcomes is a very key add-on that UST provides towards what AWS provides. There are other minor benefits, for example, AWS will invest in something that'll partner with UST in terms of migration, in terms of, you know, some subsidy of the world required in the initial stages, but the real value comes because we make sure that AWS and TSYS are both successful, and it becomes our job to make sure that we are part of a successful rollout rather than just a roll out. >> Raghu, I got to ask you. Obviously, the fun part is writing code and when you have DevOps and DevSecOps fully operational, it's infrastructure as code, that's the dream scenario, right? So how close are you to that? And what's next on this modernization wave? >> Yeah, as part of this journey, I think what we have embarked is, I think, you know, in fact our code is kind of the base foundational element. I think everything, what we are doing, as part of this migration, we are taking advantage of how a large enterprise, you know, should operate. Like, you know, we operate across the world, we have teams across the world building a lot of solutions every day. So we have built, you know, in fact, our code using something called service catalog, it's an offering from AWS, to help with large enterprises converting to the... or migrating to the cloud. So we are using that as our foundational layer to help us build that, and I think we are looking forward to it. I think, you know, where we migrate all of our applications, and take advantage of the true power of the cloud, especially in the, you know, in the data space, in the ML space and in areas we are not necessarily are not able to as easily, you know, adapt on the on-premise. >> John: Niranjan and Raghu, thank you so much for coming onto theCUBE, sharing the UST story, TSYS, great customer example, really great use case, great insights into taming complexity, because that's what the now the opportunity is to do and to recast and reset and a refactor business innovation. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, John. Thank you for the opportunity. >> Thank you very much John and Raghu. >> Keeps coverage here at theCUBE AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE, thanks for watching. (relaxed atmospheric music)

(upbeat intro jingle) >> 'Kay, welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent, 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE, with your Matt Morgan, Vice President of Cloud Infrastructure Business Group of VMware, CUBE alumni. Matt, great to see you. Can't wait to see you in person, but thanks for coming in remotely for the virtual now hybrid CUBE for re:Invent. >> It's good to see you too, John. Thanks for having us. You know, it's our ninth year covering re:Invented, Remember the first year we went there, it was all developers, right? >> Right. >> And reminds me of the story that you guys have with AWS, you know, VMware Cloud, and VMware with vSphere pioneered operations in IT, you know, vSphere workloads, but now you move that all in the cloud. I remember Ragu when he announced that deal with Pat Gelsinger and Andy Jassy, we covered it extensively. People were like "What are they doing here? This is interesting". Boy- >> Yeah, you- >> The pundits all get it wrong. Their relationship has been blossoming. It's been really powerful, take us through the history here. >> Thanks, John, I mean, you're absolutely right. We have a phenomenal relationship with Amazon Web Services. The value of our partnership has been realized by customers all over the world, in every industry, as they embrace the seamless hybrid cloud experience powered by VMware, vSphere, and of course VM-ware Cloud Stack. Of course, we've recently expanded our operations here, including Japan and the launch of the Soccer Regions. And we're fully open for business with the U.S. Federal Government with VMware Cloud on AWS Gov Cloud. There's strong alignment across the field with new go-to-market teams on both sides and a powerful resell agreement that enables AWS sellers to take VMware Cloud on AWS and all the associated VMware services, such as VMware cloud disaster recovery, NSX vRealize Cloud Management, to their enterprise customers. And we couldn't be doing better. >> Yeah, and you brought up a lot of things there. You mentioned Outpost, mentioned Gov Cloud, you mentioned Marketplace, which means you mentioned the acronym, which is basically, I think it's called EDP Credits, which essentially the enterprise, Amazon's Salesforce working together. So, essentially full business model and technical integrations with Amazon. So, success certainly being demonstrated there. So congratulations, that being said, there's still more to do. We got this whole big wave coming on, you see the edge, you seeing multicloud, you seeing hybrid becoming the operational model, both on premises and in the cloud. And so, customers really are asking themselves "Okay, I got VMware, I got AWS Cloud, I got to secure these clouds now. I got to start putting the business model together on top of the technical architecture". You know, microservices, Kubernetes, Tansu, all the things you guys are doing, but customers want to ask you "What about securing the cloud?", this is the number one question, what's your reaction to that? >> Yeah, it's a great topic, John, at the end of the day, this is about evolving the hybrid cloud. And if you think about it, originally, the hybrid cloud was about unifying both infrastructure and operations between the on-premises world, and the public cloud world. And now what's happening, is we are seeing people embrace that in spades, and as a result of that, their Tier 1 applications are running both on-premises and in the public cloud. And with our new announced local cloud capabilities with VMware Cloud on AWS Outpost, it's leading to this whole new enterprise architecture, which we call the distributed cloud. When you look at deploying enterprise applications in a distributed cloud environment, the conversation starts with consistent networking and importantly security. So, let's talk about that for a moment. Customers are asking us "How do we secure our data when we start having infrastructure in a variety of locations? Are our applications and networks... Are they really secure when they run in these completely different environments? And importantly, when we move an application, we take it from our on-premise data center, we move it to the public cloud are the security policies... Are they moving with it? Do I need to re-architect for that?". And the real question, all of this boils down to "Are we expanding that attack surface when we move to VMware Cloud on AWS?". And so we have to come back to what do we do here to really alleviate these concerns? With data security, it's all about encryption, universal insights. We have the super root capability within our platform to ensure that everything is measured, every message from an application, every data, it's great for Chain Of Custody, Audit. Of course we have backup DR Ransomware. On the application side, of course, segmentation is super important with application centric firewalls, VPNs, tunneling, EDR, IDS, IPS. And of course, none of that matters if you have to reset everything up every time an application moves. And this is a real unique value proposition for us, it's about portability. We deliver portable security. We can move an application, the APIs are standard. You can move it up to the public cloud, your policies, your integrations, even if it's third-party integrations, they're maintained. And that really delivers the ability to say "Look, we can make sure your attack surface is not expanding, it's a controlled environment for you". And that really shrinks the risk factors associated with moving to this distributed cloud environment. >> You know, that's the really, I think the key point, I think that you brought up this infrastructure, kind of, table stakes. Which keeps rising because security's, honestly is now there's no... There's a huge... There's no perimeter. It's huge surface area. Everything has to be secured and locked down. And the big theme at re:Invent this year is data, right? So, you know, data and security all go hand in hand. And so that brings up the aspect of the edge. The edge is now booming, you seeing 5G again, you're here hearing it here at reinvent again, more and more 5G. You mentioned local services, Outpost is evolving. This is kind of the new area, and certainly, attack factor as well. So, you mentioned this whole local services. Take me through that because this becomes interesting because this is an architectural issue for enterprises to figure out, "Okay, I got to distribute a computing architecture, it's called The Cloud and multiple clouds. Now, I've got this edge, whole 'nother opening opens up the case for the architecture conversation". What's the strategy? How do you guys view the case? How do you make the case for local services? >> So, we were super excited to announce VMware Cloud on AWS Outpost. This is a local cloud as a service offering. So, let me break that down a little bit. Of course, compute at the edge is nothing new, but the problem with traditional approaches is typically edge locations may lack IT excellence. Which means there's no one there to manage the service. VMware Cloud on AWS outposts is that local cloud as a service, meaning it's fully managed and at the edge, that's a perfect fit. It's hand in glove for those types of workloads that are out, pushed all the way out, whether it's part of an agricultural deployment or an energy production facility or retail store, where there isn't that typical IT excellence. VMware cloud on AWS outposts enables customers to deploy the same Cloud instance as they're running VMware Cloud on AWS, but be able to do it out at that edge environment. And when you look at the overall value of VMware Cloud on AWS Outpost, it's about delivering a simpler, cost effective, consistent cloud experience for those on-prem environments that matches the operating model of the public cloud. Think of the places that you really want to have cloud infrastructure, where it's critical. Going back to your point on data, getting real time insights on that data, to be able to process that, we call those perishable insights. The value is the immediacy understanding that value specific to the moment it's being captured. Think about the different types of sensor environments, where data's coming off expensive equipment, that's measuring temperature and speed. Understanding that value back to the operator - really, really important. You don't have time to pipe that data up to a cloud process and send the results back down. Edge environments require that real-time stuff. So, together with AWS, we jointly deliver a fully managed service right down to the AWS hardware on which we built the VMware cloud instance. We think about where we're seeing the most interest here. You can look across all kinds of industries and use cases, and we're seeing it specifically in healthcare, out of the hospital, manufacturing for equipment monitoring, government, higher education, where those end points are typically virtualized. There are others, but these are the big ones so far. >> You know, I was just talking to an AMD executive or product marketing person on the gaming side. And they're living this right now because they're putting all the virtual collaboration in the cloud, all the data, because they have so much data and they have so much need for these special instances, whether it's GPUs, and CPUs, a mix and match. So, as instances become more special purposed, that's going to enable them to have more productivity. But then, when you have that baseline in the cloud, the edge also has processing power. So, I think people are starting to see this notion of "Okay, I'm in the cloud, but I can also have that cloud edge without moving data back to the centralized cloud and processing it at the edge with software". >> Yeah, that's true. >> This is real. >> It's super real. And the one that really resonates with customers, is one that we all understand and that's healthcare. Anytime you're in a regional environment where you're at a hospital, think of an ICU, the criticality of that data being processed, providing the insights, this is more mission critical than any other environment, because we're dealing with human lives, think about the complex compute requirements of that environment. And then look at the beauty and elegance of this system, a cloud-based system on premises, doing that compute, providing those insights, giving reality back to the clinician, so they can make those decisions. Healthcare is super, super important. And we see customers across the spectrum, looking at what's happening at the edge and embracing it, whether it's healthcare or other industries. And again, it's a perfect fit for them. >> Yeah, real quick, before we move on to what's new, I'm want to get to that, the Tansu stuff as well. What other industries are popping out? Obviously, manufacturing. What can you talk with some industries and some verticals that are really primed for this local cloud service? >> So, let's talk about manufacturing for a moment. Manufacturing is another facility oriented compute requirement that is perfectly fit, from a system and solution way like VMware cloud on AWS Outposts. Within the manufacturing environment, there's tons of very critical machines. There's inventory management, there's a combination of time management, people management, bringing it all together to ensure that process lines are moving as required, that inventory is provided at the specific moment it's needed, and to make sure that everything, especially in today's supply chain world is provided when is required. This type of capability allows an organization to bring in that sensor data, bring in that inventory data, produce applications that manage that in real time, delivering that compute. And in the manufacturing floor, again, limited IT excellence. So, this provides that capability. Another one is energy production. Think about energy production that's out in the field in North Dakota, or out on an oil rig that might be in the Gulf of Mexico. Not only are you dealing with lack of IT excellence, you're also dealing with limited connectivity. This equipment needs to be monitored and censored and the data from those sensors help drive critical decisions. And with limited connectivity, I mean, you may not even have an LTE signal, the need to do that real time is paramount, local cloud provides that. >> Yeah, and I'd also just add, because we're going to move on, but higher ED is going to be completely transformed. Well, I think that's going to be kind of like a pleat revamp. Let's get into what's new on VMware Cloud on AWS give us the update on the new things that people should know about. That's important that they should review, take us through that, what's new? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, the first is the integration with the AWS console. This is a big thing that we're delivering because VMware Cloud on AWS is a native service of AWS. I have to kind of say that twice, it's a native service of AWS. And because of that, we get the same operational and commerce experience for VMware Cloud instances as customers do with traditional AWS services. This means customers now have a choice between AWS centric operating model, which is highly relevant to DevOps and developers, or VMware centric operating model, which is very relevant to traditional operators, and IT users. VMware Cloud on AWS Gov Cloud is expanded to the U.S., East Virginia Region, and achieved aisle five certification. This new region will make the service more relevant for the Eastern Seaboard where much of the Federal Government resides. And of course with aisle five, it opens up VMware Cloud on AWS to the U.S. military and defense contractors, which is huge because there's massive cloud transformation contracts currently in play. And of course, VMware Cloud on AWS Gov Cloud provides the most secure enterprise cloud for those DOD customers, especially when they focus on those critical Tier 1 workloads. >> It's been three years since the GA of the VMware cloud on AWS, has been earlier, since you announced it> You're pumping on all cylinders, as we had predicted, others didn't, just FYI for the folks watching. What's the final vibe? End the segment with your view of what's going on with VMware Cloud on AWS? What's the bumper sticker? >> So, at the end of the day, every customer is looking to migrate and modernize their workloads. And VMWare cloud gives them that capability to do it faster than anyone else. Customers take their applications, tier 1 applications, move it to that secure distributed cloud construct, that idea of having VMware Cloud on AWS, sharing all those security policies, all of that consistent infrastructure and operations. And then they can modernize those applications, using all of those cloud services and the ability to use Tansu to containerize where applicable. We're excited about these capabilities, and our customers are adopting it faster each and every year. And we're thrilled about the traction we're had. And we're thrilled about the partnership we have with Amazon Web Services. So, lots more to come in this space. >> Lot of great stuff, people moving up the stack on the cloud, you're seeing more refactoring in the cloud. Matt Morgan, great to see you. We've been talking 'about this for years on theCUBE. Great to come on and give some insights. All happening. Infrastructure is code. And everyone's winning with containers and microservices. So, great stuff. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks a lot, John, take care. >> Okay, Matt Morgan, the VP of Cloud Infrastructure Business Group of VMware. This theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent, 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. 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(Upbeat intro music) >> Welcome to theCUBE's continuing coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm Lisa Martin and we are running one of the industry's most important and largest hybrid tech events with AWS in this ecosystem partners this year. We have two live sets, two remote sets over 100 guests talking about the next decade in cloud innovation. And we're excited to be joined by Patrick Jean the CTO of OutSystems, Patrick welcome to the program. >> Thank you, I appreciate being one of those 100 guests. >> One of the 100, one of the elite 100, we'll say it like that, right? >> Yes. >> So OutSystems has some revolutionary news. You guys are saying, you know what, developer experience needs to change, tell us more. >> It does I mean, it needs to change. And I've been in the industry developing applications for too many years to mention, basically since I was 12 years old writing software and going over that time and thinking about it, doing the traditional software development route. So many applications that take too long was costly to build, so much risk involved in it. Eventually it didn't meet all the requirements. And if you look at the investment we make in software, which is important, I mean, software is a unique differentiator for businesses. That investment has such a high-risk and a high cost and that needs to change. And it needs to change just because of the complexity that is in that process inherent in it. That's and that is what we are doing in OutSystems is tackling that problem. And from a business standpoint, it must change. >> It must change that is strong words there. So talk to me about what you're announcing what were the gaps in the market, customer feedback, were there any catalysts from the pandemic going we've got to change this developer experience and this is the time. >> For sure. I mean, if you think about from the pandemic and I mean, we were on a journey for digital transformation. We've been on this journey for a number of years the pandemic really accelerated that the experiences that we have with each other, you and me are not in the same studio today. I mean, there reasons that we use this experience remotely. We have a technology that can do it. The pandemic accelerated that. And so, so much of the experiences we have are digital experiences. And if you think about it, there's a device in between us. There's going to be a device in between all the people viewing what we're looking at. That experience that they will have with us will be basically surfaced through an application on that device. And the pandemic has really accelerated that. And that's an area that we play in, obviously for what's considered low-code application development. And if you just think about application development in general, that's what powers all of these experiences. And going back to that statement about that it needs to change. If we need these experiences to be diverse, if we need these experiences to be meaningful, if we need them to make sure that when people engage as far as what that device is something that brings, delight and pleasure to them. We need developers across the board investing in that. Today there is a very constrained market for professional developers because of the inherent complexity in software development. And so if you think about how that's almost, almost here limiting access to the people who can create those experiences, that's not a good situation. There's about 25 million developers in the world that would consider themselves developers today, seven, eight, nine, 10 billion devices out there. Think of that disparity between those two numbers. And so we need a larger number of people to actually develop applications so that experience can be much more diverse. We need to expose development to many more people. That is the problem today with software development is that it is complex, it is too specialized. It's too inherent as far with failure when you get it together. And so either you shy away from that as an organization or as an individual. To do development are you going on these very long development as far as cycles to actually create these applications? What we do is we take the approach of let's make it very simple to get into. Sometimes we call it citizen developer, low-code, basically all they're saying is let's reduce the risk of development. Let's go into a process where we make it accessible to more and more people. You can go through and develop applications with the lower risk. You can build change into that process. You can get value into end users as rapidly as possible. So that is the value proposition, that is what needs to change. >> Strong value proposition well said, Patrick. Talking about reducing the complexity, the risk as well. So go ahead and crack open what you guys are actually announcing today. >> Yeah, for sure. So we've been doing this for many years. We have software development, we have 14 million plus as far as end-users using applications that have been developed with the Allo systems platform. What we're announcing is taking some of the great benefits that we have to what you'd consider as the first part of that low-code process. Where you have a developer that has an idea, and there's a canvas in front of you. You're an artist, right, with a canvas that's what you are as a developer. And so you go in and you create that application. We've been doing this for many years and it worked really well. The thing that we're improving upon now is the ability to do that and scale that out to millions of end-users, 10 millions of end-users. So if you think about that inherent speed of developing an application, using a platform like OutSystems, we're taking that same concept and rolling that into an internet scale application, hosting architecture. So any developer that uses OutSystems, basically like it would be comparable to a traditional development team that has application architects, cloud architects, security engineers, database engineers, a whole team of very smart individuals that generally the biggest technology companies in the world can put together. Most companies can't do that, you don't have access to that type of skillset. And so we're providing that with Project Neo, which is what we're announcing today in our, at our user conference and customer conference. Is this brand new as far as platform that allows you to build these applications at scale. And this is initially built on AWS using all the great AWS technologies. If you look at what AWS has done and provided to developers today, it's amazing. It is absolutely amazing. The amount of technologies that you can leverage. It's also daunting because as a traditional developer, you have to go in and choose what do you do? It's like, there's just massive cognitive load. As far as upfront when you go in to design an application. What's up in messaging, what's up at data store, well, how do I host my application? What type of network as far as security do I use? We're taking all that heavy lifting, all that undifferentiated heavy lifting off of the developers, putting it into the Project Neo platform. Allowing a single developer or a small group of developers to actually leverage that best in class architecture on AWS today. >> So when you're talking to developers, what are some of the things that you describe as the unique differentiators of Project Neo? It sounds like this was really apt and apt time for change. But when you're talking to those folks, what do you say you know, one, two three, these are the things that make Project Neo unique. >> Yeah, so the first is don't worry about the application architecture. Like I mentioned when you go in, the idea, the concept of that application and what it means to deliver some value, whether it's into a business or a hobby or whatever. I mean, however you're developing application, you're doing it for a reason. You want that value to come out as quick as possible. You want that experience. And so that first thing is, you don't have to worry about the architecture anymore. So in the past you'd have to think about if it's a very large application, it's millions and millions of end-users. How do you structure that? How do you put it together? That concern is removed from you in that process. The other thing is we solve the problem of software disintegration. So with traditional development, when you develop an application and you get it into the hands of end users it immediately starts to disintegrate. So there will be bugs that will appear. There will be as far as security flaws that will come up services that you use will become deprecated. We'll swap out cloud services by AWS or Azure or Google. swap out cloud services with different services behind the scenes. Version, there'll be new versions of those that is software disintegration. As soon as you develop software today and all of these beautiful cloud services that you use and components. Something will become outdated almost by the time you release it. A lot of times with software development projects, it literally is you start with some version or some component before you can get that out in a traditional mode, something becomes outdated. We solved that issue. What I like to call software disintegration. We, as far as OutSystems, ensure we invest in that platform. And so when we may need to change out those components, those services, those versions fix is for security flaws, fixed bugs, we do that and it's seamless. And so your application, you do not have to rewrite your application. You do not have to go through that process as a tradition, as a developer on OutSystems like you would, as your traditional developer. We solve that software disintegration issue. So it's very empowering to developers to not have to worry about that. There are many, you look at the numbers today about how much is invested in innovation versus maintenance. A lot of companies start out at 70% innovation, 30% as far as maintenance, and then overtime that flips. And you'll get to 30% of your time spent on innovations development, 70% maintenance, that burden, we remove that burden. >> Those were some really powerful statements Patrick that you made and I really liked the way that you described software disintegration. I've actually never heard that term before. And it kind of reminded me of when you buy a brand new car, you drive it off the lot, the value goes down right away then before you even get things out. And on the consumer side, we know that as soon as we buy the newest iPhone, the next one's going to be out, or there's some part of it, that's going to be outdated. In terms of technical debt, I was reading a stat that technical debt is expected to reach in costs of businesses, 5 trillion, US dollars over the next 10 years. How does OutSystems help customers address the challenges with technical debt and even reduce it? >> Yeah, I mean if you think about in the kind of the truest sense of technical debt, it's a decision that you make in the development process to basically load up the future with some work that you don't want to do right now. And so we're solving that issue where not only, you don't even have to make that decision. So you can go back to that concept of removing that cognitive load of, do I get the software out right now or do I get it out in the right way? And that's really what technical debt, technical debt is saying I need to get it out now. And there are some things I want to do that it'd be better if I did them now, but I'm going to go ahead and push that out into the future. You don't have to do that today with us. And so what happens with OutSystems is we invest in that platform. And this is hard. I mean, this is not an easy thing to do. This is why we have some of the best and brightest engineers focusing on this process at the heart of this, not to get too technical, but the heart of this is what we call the true change engine within our platform. We go through and we look at all of the changes that you need to make. So you think of that concept of technical debt of like, ah, I want to get this in the hands of end users, but I don't want to invest in the time to do something right. It's always done right, as far as with the OutSystems platform. So we take that, we look at the intent of your change. So it's like a process where you tell us the intent. When you as a application developer, you're designing an application, you tell us the intent of the application is to look and feel. It could be some business processes this could be some integrations. We determine what's the best way to do that and then once again, from a software disintegration standpoint, we continue to invest in all the right ways to do that the best way possible. And so, I mean, we have customers that have written applications that's 10, 15 years ago. They're still using our platform with those same applications they've added to them, but they have not rewritten those applications. And so if you think about the normal traditional development process, the technical debt incurred over that type of lifetime would be enormous. With us there's no technical debt. They're still using the same application they've simply added capabilities to it. We invest in that platform so they don't have to. >> So big business outcomes down, obviously from a developer productivity perspective, but from the company wide perspective, the ability to eliminate technical debt, some significant opportunities there. Talk to me about the existing OutSystems customers. When are they going to be able to take advantage of this? What is the migration or upgrade path that they can take and when? >> Yeah and so it is very important to me and the team as far as OutSystems to be able to integrate, to innovate as far as for customers, without disrupting customers. And we've probably all been through this path of great new technology is awesome. But then to actually utilize that technology when you're a current customer, it creates pain. And so we've invested heavily in making sure that the process is pain-free. So you can use Project Neo. So we are announcing it as in, it was in public preview as far as now, and then we will release it from GA as far as in the first quarter of next year. So over this timeframe, you'll be able to get in and try it out and all that. Continue to use your current version, which is OutSystems 11. So what we affectionately call O-11, as far as Allo systems. The Allo systems 11 version continue to use, and you can continue to use that today side-by-side and coexistence with the Project Neo. And Project Neo is a code name. So we will have an official product name as for as at launch but it's our affectionate it's kind of a unofficial mascot as Neo. So we call the Project Neo is a little bit of a fun name and you can use it side by side and then in the future, you'll be able to migrate applications over. Or you can just continue to co-exist. I mean, we see a very long lifetime for OutSystems 11, it's a different platform, different technology behind the scenes. Project Neo's Kubernetes-base Linux containers. Based once again, on the ability, we went in with the gist and looked at it and said, re-architect, re-imagine, how would you do this if you had the best and brightest as far as engineers, architects, we have, which we do. Various market and those people and we did that. And so we did that for our customers. And so Neo is that OutSystems 11 still a great choice. If you have applications on it, you can use it. And we have, we anticipate the customers will actually side by side develop on both in which we have some customers in preview today. And that's the process that they have. They will develop on 11, they will develop on Neo and they will continue to do that. And there's no, we are dedicated to making sure that there's no disruption and no pain in that process. And then when customers are ready to migrate over, if that's what they choose, we'll help them migrate over. >> You make it sound easy. And I was wondering if Project Neo had anything to do with the new matrix movie I just saw the trailer for it the other day, I wonder if this is related. >> It was a happy coincidence. It is not easy let me, let me be clear. It is something we have been working on for three years and really this last year really kicked into high gear. And a lot of behind the scenes work, obviously for us, but once again, that's our value proposition. It's we do the hard work. So developers and the customers don't have to do that hard work. But no relations to Neo, I love, I do love the matrix movies. So it's a nice coincidence. (Lisa laughs) >> It is a nice coincidence. Last question, Patrick, for you, as we wrap up the calendar year 2021, we heading into 2022. I think we're all very hopeful that 2022 will be a better year than the last two. What are some of the things that you see as absolutely critical for enterprises? What are they most concerned about right now? >> Yeah, I think it's, look I mean, it's obviously it has been a crazy a couple of years. And if you think about what enterprises want, I mean, they want to provide a great experiences for their customers, a great experience for their employees. Once again, digital transformation, where you don't even kind of talk about digital transformation more because we're in it. And I think that customers need to make sure that the experiences they provide these digital experiences are the best possible experiences. And these are differentiators. These are differentiators for employees. These are differentiators for customers. I believe that software is one of the big differentiators for businesses today and going forward. And that will continue to be so where businesses may be invested in supply chains, invested in certain types of technologies. Business will continue to invest in software because software is that differentiator. And if you look at where we fit, you can go, you can go buy, some great set of software, my software as a service off the shelf. In the end, you're just like every other business you bought the same thing that everybody else had bought. You can go the traditional development route, where you invest a bunch of money, it's a high risk, takes a long time. And once again, you may not get what you want. We believe what is most important to businesses. Get that unique software that fits like a glove that is great for employees, it's great for their customers. And it is a unique differentiator for them. And I really see that in 2022, that's going to be big and going forward. They're the legs for that type of investment that companies make and they return on that is huge. >> I agree with you on that in terms of software as a differentiator. Now we're seeing every company become a software company in every industry these days to be, first to survive in the last 20 months and now to be competitive, it's really kind of a must have. So, Patrick thank you for joining me on the program, talking about Project Neo, GA in the first quarter of calendar year 22. Exciting stuff we appreciate your feedback and your insights and congratulations on Project Neo. >> Thanks, Lisa, appreciate it. >> For Patrick Jean, I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching theCUBEs continuous coverage of re:Invent 2021. (Outro music)

(bright music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We have Michael D´aniello, platform architect at VMware's Carbon Black. Michael, great to see you. We're here at re-Invent virtual hybrid in person. Great to have you on theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, thanks a lot. Glad to be here. >> So one of the big stories that we're tracking, obviously, is workloads. All cloud for all workloads. Obviously the data is a big part of things, but under the covers and optimizing cloud for the application developers, this modern application movement is more and more at the top of the stack. People just wanting to code. Infrastructure as code. You've seen DevSecOps is a big trend that's driving all new microservices, all new greatness for developers, but still, there's an optimization question. I want to get your thoughts on this, is what you do. Take a minute to explain what your role is at Carbon Black around this cloud optimization. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so my name is Michael D'aniello. I am a platform architect of VMware Carbon Black. I work across all the different engineering teams. And our main objective is to develop scalable platform tools and that includes, yeah, cloud security, automation pieces, pipelines, cost optimization, like we'll be talking about today, developer enablement tooling and observability tooling. >> One of the big things about instances is that, you know, do I have enough instances? 'Cause honestly, the elastic cloud is amazing, all kinds of new resources there, but talk about the AMD portion of the instances. How do we identify these instances? How to developers understand it, what's in them, and what's the selection criteria? Take us through that whole process of the Amazon web service and the AMD instances. >> Yeah, sure. So essentially, we're leveraging a lot of our instances to run our EKS clusters, which is a managed service for me and for us to run our Kubernetes clusters. And we identify that we can take a bunch of those instances and gain some cost optimization benefits by selecting from Intel to AMD processors. And, you know, initially, we had measured out to be roughly a 10% reduction in cost just for selecting that instance type. But yeah, we actually learned we gained quite a bit more, so. >> John: You know, developers are always like, I want more power, and this is what, you know, the whole idea of Cloud is. Cloud scale has been a big competitive advantage, but also the cost aspect of it. What's the balance between maximizing performance and cost optimization? Because now, you know, people don't want to, you know, they want more power. They also don't want to have a lot of extra spend. And this is kind of one of those things they talk about in Cloud where it's been so successful, cost is important. >> Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it's got to be easy, too, to get that cost optimization benefit. Otherwise, you're spending all your cycles and burning that money there in the human capital and the team and the engineering effort. So luckily, this change is a one-line change. We use Terraform for our automated provisioning, a layer, and we were able to make that one line change and then developers didn't have to make any application changes, which was great. So it was a no-brainer for us to pursue this. >> Talk about the EC2 instances that leverage AMD based process for the EKS, you mentioned that earlier, what is that all about? What's the benefits, what's in it for you guys? >> Yeah, for sure. So essentially, the workloads that are running on these instance types are actual Carbon Black Cloud application. So, all the backend systems that support our customers. And so in that use case, we're, you know, we're spinning up all of our containers that are running our applications and essentially, that's our use case for those instance types. >> How did you come to use the AWS EC2 instances on the AMD? Did you have an evaluation process? Did you just go select it? I mean, take us through that migration aspect of it. >> Yeah, sure, yeah. So originally, we're looking across the board. How can we do better cost optimization, right? And that goes across every different AWS resource, but we targeted this one specifically. We worked alongside with their AWS TAMs and representatives to basically find out, "Hey, is this financially worth the effort?" And we did reach that conclusion with some analysis, basically targeting these instance types and doing some analysis on that cost optimization specifically. And it ended up, you know, being the right thing to target. >> What was the ease of use of the switch? Take us through that. Was it a heavy lift? Was it seamless? Take us through the impact, there, on the move over and what were the results of that? >> Yeah, so I mean, that's the greatest thing. Like I said before, I mean, we had to make just a single line change just to change that instance type in our config and then roll that out across our regions. We did slow roll that in order to make sure that those changes in our development environments didn't make any, you know, performance hits or we didn't run into any snags with the applications themselves. But yeah, I mean, that's the greatest part about the story from my perspective is the ease to migrate over and to switch to these instance types, and then you just immediately gain that cost optimization benefit. >> You know what I love about what your job is, platform architect, that word kind of had a lot of meaning even 10, 15 years ago, but now with the Cloud, it's almost like you're always finagling and managing and massaging and nurturing the infrastructure to enable it. More new things are coming online as well, more high level services. So you've got a fun job and it's always evolving. How do you stay on top of it? What's the impact been for your customers, too, as you start deploying some of these new instance capabilities? Take us through kind of a day in the life of what you do and then what's the impact of customers? >> Yeah, sure. So, you know, like you said, there's quite a bit now to look at. You know, you got to stay on top of different blogs and keep connected with your network to see what your other colleagues are doing across different companies. You know, you can go into conferences like AWS re:Invent, right, to keep on the cutting edge here. But yeah, that's essentially, you know, one of the key aspects is just trying to look at all the different aspects, all the new technologies that are coming out, making sure you're making the right choices there and trying to get the most bang for your buck while you're at it. >> What are some of the big factors that you see in cloud native as you start to look at what customers are doing? Obviously with Kubernetes, your starting to see that platform develop inside the industry as well as defacto, kind of orchestration layer. But now as customers start to look at it, they want to have more ease of use there, too. At the same time, they don't want to have to do a lot of front end work. They want to get instant benefits in the Cloud, obviously, whether it's from a security standpoint or just rolling out a modern application. Okay, so as having all this infrastructure under the covers, how do you look at that problem and how do you capture that opportunity? >> Yeah, and I think that's why we're seeing a movement here on platform teams. It's kind of a newer terminology, usually a band of developers and SREs come together and say, "Well, we've got a lot of different things to look at. We're onboarding applications to Kubernetes, and we need to make tools so that developers don't have to think much about the transition and the underlying platform." And so that's one of our success metrics on the platform engineering team is just to almost, you know, be non-existent, right? To just have everything flow through our systems and then have just a high ease of use to onboard the applications to the new platform. >> You know, it looks like you have some great success with the AMD based instances. Can I ask you a question? 'Cause I wanted figure this out. How do you identify an AMD based instance when you're making the selections? >> Yeah, sure. It's as easy as just the A after the name. So for us, it was the C5.4XL. And if you want the AMD one, it's just the C5A.4XL. So I guess technically, instead of a one line change, it's actually a one letter change. So, quite easy there. >> Yeah, it's almost like back in the old glory days of command line, one quick update. The customer aspect of this is also important, too. If you don't mind, while I got you here, what are some of the things that you're hearing from your customers, from a performance standpoint, that they're looking for? Obviously, the cost optimization is key, but as they look to deploy more power and more performance, what are some of the things that your customers are looking for from Carbon Black? >> Yeah, so I mean, we are a security company, but we're really a data company because we have, you know, 8,000 customers, we processed over a trillion events per day, we ingress over a hundred terabytes of data per day. And so, our customers need high level performance. And if we can't provide that with low latency, we're not successful. So that's why, you know, performance on the underlying systems that are running our applications is super critical. >> Yeah, you're looking at trailblazer over there. I mean, the work that you guys are doing with the data is amazing. And that's a big theme at re:Invent this year is that data is a huge part. We look at the success of the cloud growth on this, I call gen-two cloud, happening. This whole modern movement is all about how people handle the data at scale, 'cause cloud scales here and now you've got processing all that data, The trailblazing that's going on, there's like this new wave of, I almost called it first-generation trailblazers, but you guys are doing that. What advice would you have for other architects out there and kind of the mainstream enterprises who are like, "Hey, I want to take advantage of the path that you guys have plowed through." What's your advice? >> Yeah, I think one of the key things in a place where we've had a lot of success is creating standards, making sure that we're choosing technology wisely, and making sure that your company isn't building the same solution in silos. And you know, that's a huge pattern that I've seen in my career. And if you can negate that, you're going to be in a great place. So, you know, choose the right technology, container first, cloud native first, push forward, and then make sure that everybody's kind of on that same ship running in the same direction. >> Well, great case study on this AMD based instance migration. Was there any uplift and experience that you've seen on the switch and the performance? Can you just talk about that? What does it mean to upgrade? What benefits are you seeing on the performance you have? >> Yeah, so I didn't hit on this yet and I really wanted to. Yeah, so upfront, the instance itself is 10% cheaper. However, we found out that we had to run far less instances because of that performance increase. So we ended up saving roughly 30% and we've continued to scale out. So at first, it was a couple of hundred instances. Now we're in the thousands and we're going to keep ramping up to over 10 thousands, tens of that. >> John: Let me get this right. So single line change, letter change, instance change. So you get not as many instances, and you save money, so you get cost optimization and higher performance. >> Yep. They say, if it's too good to be true, it's not. But in this case, it actually is. >> So why is it so good in your opinion? What did you discover? What was the big revelation that went down this path? Because that's good value proposition. >> Yeah, for sure. I mean, so initially, we were just chasing that initial BC to 10% and then as we kind of push it forward, we're looking at the metrics, month to month costs and we're actually saying, well, as we kind of swap over from one instance type to another, we're actually paying less. And then once we fully swapped over, it took five or six months to get to the same amount of costs as we continued to scale upward. So it's been a great story. >> It is a great story. It's super nuanced, but it's super important to know these platform benefits. I got to ask you on a personal question, if you don't mind. We love covering Cloud. We've been covering Amazon, it's our ninth year at re:Invent. Just love covering all the action and tech as this just total awesomeness environment. Cloud scale, innovation, capabilities, it's like surfing a big wave. But there's a bigger wave coming and we're seeing it now. I want to get your thoughts on this. As you look to the next big wave, beyond Cloud now, Cloud scale, data, new architecture is rolling out with Edge, basically distributing computing at large scale, and tons of security challenges, right? How do you look at this next big wave coming? Are you staring at it saying, wow, this is going to be huge? And how do you ride that wave? What's your mindset and how do you look at that? >> Well first of all, I'm extremely excited about it. Just the further this thing grows out, there's definitely more complexity, but just a whole slew of fun problems to solve. But when we look at these different problems and solving them at scale across multiple regions, it gets pretty exciting, right? So I can say one example of this is our security of our Cloud, not the security product, and we've developed automation for prevention and auto-remediation in our pipelines. It's been such a success story. And these type of technologies did not exist even a couple of years ago and we've been able to take advantage of them. So, there's going to be a lot more of that where that came from. So, yeah. >> Michael, great work. And again, you're truly a trailblazer, and this is, again, you got to do it. You got to screw your own cloud and stay on the cutting edge and ride that wave. Congratulations on the CostOp cloud optimization and the success with AMD based instances. Congratulations. Thanks. >> Thanks. >> Okay, this is theCUBEs coverage of AWS's re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (inspirational music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome everyone to this CUBE coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. We have a lot going on at this year's re:Invent with over 100 guests on the program, and I'm excited to welcome two of those guests here with me right now. We are joined by Ralph Munsen, the Chief Information Officer at Warner Music Group and Atif Khan, the CTO of Alkira and founder of Alkira as well. Gentlemen, welcome to the program. >> Thank you so much, Lisa. So glad to be here with you. >> Good to be here. >> Yeah. Good old fashioned Zoom is become our best friend in the last 22 months or so I'm losing count. Atif, I'd like to start with you. I know Alkira has been on the key before, but it's been a while and you guys are a relatively young company. Give the audience an overview of Alkira and what it is that you deliver. >> Absolutely, Lisa. So we started back in may of 2018, and the Cloud networking space, multicloud networking. And we came out of stealth mode back in April of 2020, and launched the company. In fact, one of our first events coming out of stealth mode was a Cuban interview back in April of 2020. So here at Telecare, what we are doing is we are building a Cloud platform, which allows customers to build a common network across multiple Clouds with built-in network and security services, with the policy and management layer on top full end to end visibility and governance capabilities. And all of this is delivered as a service and consumed as a service as well. And I'm very glad to be here with Ralph, who is from Warner Music Group and is one of our marquee customers. So I'll let Ralph introduce himself, and tell us a bit more about Alkira and WMTS Cloud journey. >> That sounds great. Ralph, why don't you start by giving the audience? I'm sure everyone knows Warner Music Group, but in case there's anyone out there that might not. Give us a little bit of a background. >> Yeah, so the Warner Music Group has been around since 1950 and 1940 even it had its roots at Hollywood and out of Warner Brothers Pictures, Today, say global company in 79 countries we operated. If the 100 employees and we have two major divisions, we have our era recorded music division, which has the labels people commonly turn to Atlantic records, Warner brothers records, and so forth. And then we have our publishing division, which is more a chapel, which is where our songwriters live. And of course we have some singer songwriters that are on both sides of our business. But now currently people may know our artists. We have ed Sheeran, Bruno Mars, Coldplay, Cardi B, Blake Shelton and I could go on and on. But exciting, great year, we're having one of our best years ever. And I'm so glad to be here and partnering with an Alkira. >> Excellent. I love all of those artists that you mentioned. Fantastic. So let's talk a little bit now Ralph about the backstory. Talk to me about the IT infrastructure at Warner Music Group, what you had there and some of the challenges that you had that you came to Alkira to solve. >> Yeah, well initially when I took over about five years ago now, we were very much a data center based business with traditional networking and IT functions. Additionally with our foreign affiliates, IT was sort of decentralized in the sense that a lot of the networking and data center components were left to regions. And so while we operated globally, we didn't really operate globally, at Warner among our affiliates. So one of the challenges was how do we get out of the data center? Cloud was new. One of the big things that were coming with big data, which is absolutely right for moving, going straight to the Cloud, especially if you don't have anything on-prem and how do we rationalize all of these different locations and conduct all the M&A work we've been doing? So it was quite a challenge, really. At the end, we wanted to have one view of the network, and now Alkira. I looked at many of companies and I'm curious in the best to provide that to us. So. >> Well, talk to me a little bit more about why Alkira, because as Atif was saying, they're very young. What came out of stealth mode during the pandemic Warner Music Group, being around since the 40s and 50s, the legacy institution, a great brand. What made you take a risk on such an early stage startup? >> Quite frankly, there was nothing in the space (chuckles) at the time you loved, there were companies that had components of it, of what Alkira does, which is basically network orchestration allowing us to use existing components. And nobody has the whole package, especially incorporating security. So, we figured why not take, take a chance? There's no, it won't hurt you no harm. And if anything is successful, it will give us a great ability to manage our network, much more efficiently taking things that took days down to hours and being able to do it much more efficiently with much fewer staff, as opposed to hiring a lot more because when you orchestrate all the components that are underneath, obviously it requires more bodies, more resources. >> Right. That efficiency and cost optimization is key there. Atif I have to ask you, talk to me about, this is only a few years ago, the gap in the market that you and your brothers saw a few years ago, when you founded the company, because as Rob was saying, there was nobody else in the market at the time that could do what you're doing. >> Yeah, absolutely. So Lisa, as you know, myself and Amir, we were also a part of the founding team of Viptela, which was the SD-WAN Company. So back in the day when we did SD-WAN, the requirement was to connect sites together. So if you go back like 5, 10, 5, 7, 10 years ago, networking was done to connect sites together, which could be remote sites, data centers, sites to data centers, all of that together. But fast forward, a few more years with the adoption of Cloud, requirements changed from the networking perspective. So now your network is not just connecting sites together, but most of the traffic now is from sites or users, which could be sitting anywhere. If you look at, what's going on? in the pandemic people are working from all across the globe. They are not just sitting in campuses or sites. So traffic patterns are from sites or users mostly to the Cloud or SaaS applications. So now networks also need to evolve and they need to be built inside the Cloud rather than from outside or connecting into the Cloud. So Cloud access is one capability, but building a network inside the Cloud becomes a requirement. And secondly, now it's not just only about connectivity because security becomes even more important because your security perimeter is changing as well. So securing all these Cloud networks becomes very, very complicated. And now as Ralph can tell you, majority of the enterprises have a multicloud strategy and each Cloud is done differently. So the moment you bring in multiple Clouds, multiple regions across the globe, it becomes so complicated for enterprises to build and manage. They need something, or a platform which makes it easy, gives them one way of doing networking, building a common network across whether you're connecting multiple Clouds or Clouds to your on-prem locations or Clouds to internet or sites to internet. So that's where we saw this gap and we decided to build Alkira to tackle this problem. >> Got it. So Rob, let's talk now about what you've implemented as a team was saying we live in this, in this work from anywhere hybrid multicloud world. Talk to us about Warner, what you implemented and maybe a little bit about your multicloud strategy, if you've got one. >> Ralph: Yeah. So over the last five years, Warner has migrated entirely into Cloud. And to this point before it's multicloud, we're mainly in AWS, but we do have some pleasure and some Google Cloud. And with that, I was telling Atif and Amir. It was interesting and they built a Cloud on site. They totally forgot about the networking aspect. So (laughs), you have ease of use for services and servers inside (indistinct) cloud, but networking is not really present, not to mention when it was built out, it wasn't made to go to competing Clouds. So most companies are facing this problem. How do you treat these environments as a single holistic environment? How do you turn things up, turn things down? How do you secure it, When every single one is different habits, selling unique ways of doing things? So that really was, how we ended up looking for an out Alkira, because I just kept looking at the costs and the profit print grow and grow and grow. And the complexity to a (indistinct) before is growing exponential. One change in one thing would lead to two changes to another. If you add another Cloud or you add another point on the network, you've got exponential growth and complexity, complexity, you have to deal with. So one stop shop. (chuckles) >> One stop shop and reducing that complexity. Talk to me about reducing complexity, and what you're accomplishing there. Especially, in the last year and a half as things have been so dynamic, shall we say? (chuckles) >> Yeah, well, I will say this. It was turnkey for the most part. It took a matter of months as opposed to years, because out of the box, there was a lot of integrations with the major network of players. So as of right now, you can buy firewalls, routing, VPC, things like this, they all exist, but they're not orchestrated together. Right? And then you have policies and security, again not orchestrating a different set of tools. So it really only took us two to three months to get it up and running, I acts, I just had a conversation (chuckles) with them when we were going to finish. So I think we'll be finishing this up completely in January and sometime. So, I was pretty sure. >> LISA: That's fantastic. So really, >> Yeah. >> Sorry Relaph fast time to market there with getting things implemented. Talk to me about from a business outcome perspective, you are CIO, what are some of the outcomes? That this technology is enabling you to deliver back to the business? >> Yeah, it really, the number 1, 2 big ones come to mind. One being able to provide them a secure enterprise. I know when there is the change it's made uniforms for our network without, some of older something's being forgotten about. So that's number one, security is big. You can imagine a company like more ever marquee brands, all brands, any company of marquee brands are targets today. That's number one. Number two is our time to market for eminent. So when we buy a company the time it takes us to get them to be completely part of Warner and therefore start realizing the business case and benefits sort of reasonably bought. Bought the company to begin with. So, we're buying a lot more and we're turning them up and turning those business cases up faster. But usually those cases would say things like six months to a year to integrate with us, and then we can unlock the set of benefits. Now it's more like, two to three months and you start to be able to lock the benefits sooner. And of course, those are different than a case by case basis, but that's. >> Sure, but significantly faster there, you're looking at a two to three X multiplier there, as you talked about. >> Ralph: right. >> Now, you mentioned multicloud Ralph. So here we are at re:Invent. I imagine part of your AWS as part of your Cloud infrastructure and they're a technology partner of ALkira's. >> Ralph: Correct. Yeah. So AWS is actually our biggest Cloud provider of the three, and yeah (laugh) they're their partner without cure. So Good. >> And Atif then you, Alkira's technology partner of AWS, correct? >> Yeas. Alkira is a technology partner of AWS, we are also available on AWS marketplace. So customers can consume, AlKira's platform from AWS marketplace as well. >> But given the fact that so many businesses in every industry are multicloud, I assume that you work with all the Cloud vendors. Atif Yeah? >> Absolutely. So our platform runs inside of the Cloud and runs in AWS is a Cloud as well. And from there it connects to multiple Clouds. So if customers need to connect to Azure or AWS from there or Oracle Cloud or any other Cloud, for that matter, they can connect from our platform and our platform is it scales horizontally. So as customers needs scale, it scales as well. And one of the key advantages is, it's consumed as a service. So there's no software to download or hardware to run for or to acquire for any of the customers. It's a software solution and it's consumed as a service. >> Got it. Ralph one on one more question for you before we wrap things up here, want to get your recommendations for IT Executives, CEOs, who might be in a similar situation to you, whether or not they are with a legacy organization, what are some of your recommendations that you say you need to be looking at a, B and C? >> Yeah, I would primarily say really need to be looking at some of these newer technologies that can help speed up, people, especially in this case to transition to the Cloud and that planning ahead of time, especially goal-setting, I find to be it's any of these places, providers is absolutely Paramount, because you can, if you don't make your own (indistinct) take that step forward and you can end up with shelter. So I make sure that it's very important that when you commit to that, you commit fully, you plan it out and you make sure you actually use it to get the benefits. One of my tech key is software. So. (chuckles) (Lisa Laughing) I'm a bit of it so. >> Well, you've been there and It costs a lot of money and it doesn't do any good. It doesn't move the business forward. And in this day and age, there is a competitor right behind the rear view mirror who might be smaller, more nimble, and more agile, who can take your place easily. >> Absolutely. >> If the organization isn't willing to take the risks and commit, as you said, Atif last question over for you, where are the customers go to learn more? I know you are at re:Invent your booth 1628, but what do you recommend folks go attendees of the event, as well as just other prospects to go to learn more about what you guys are delivering for companies like Warner Music Group. >> So if you're at re:Invent, please stop by our booth. And one of our Cloud specialists will give you a demo as well. So it's a very quick demo and you'll see, how we are reinventing networking for the Cloud narrow. You can also go to our website and you'll find a lot of information on our website. You can request a demo there as well. So look forward to seeing most of you at our booth and those who are not attending in person, please go visit our website. >> Lisa: Reinventing Networking. I like your play on words. They are Atif very appropriate. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me today talking about Alkira, Warner Music Group, what you guys are doing together and how this new early stage technology is really quite transformative. We appreciate your insights. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> For Ralph Munsen and Atif Khan, I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. Thanks for watching. (soft techno music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We're here with James Watters, CTO of Modern Applications at VMware here to talk about the big Tanzu cloud native application wave, the modernization's here. James, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Hey John, great to have you back on. And really excited about re:Invent this year. And I've been watching your coverage of it. There's lots of exciting stuff going on in this space. >> Awesome. Well, James, you've been riding the wave of, I would call cloud 1.0, 2.0 what do you want to call it, the initial wave of cloud where the advent of replatforming is there. You know all these benefits and things are moving fast. Things are being developed. A lot of endeavors, things are tracking. Some are kicking, Kubernetes kicks in, and now the big story is over the past year and a half. Certainly the pandemic highlighted is this big wave that's hitting now, which is the real, the modernization of the enterprise, the modernization of software development. And even Amazon was saying that in one of our talks that the sovereign life cycles over it should be completely put away to bed. And that DevOps is truly here. And you add security, you got DevSecOps. So an entirely new, large scale, heavy use of data, new methodologies are all hitting right now. And if you're not on that wave your driftwood, what's your take? >> Oh, I think you're dead John, and you know, kind of the first 10 years of working on this for sort of proving that the microservices, the container, the declared of automation, the DevOps patterns were the future. And I think everyone's agreed now. And I think DevSecOps and the trends around app modernization are really around bringing that to scale for enterprises. So the conversations I tend to be having are, Hey, you've done a little Kubernetes. You've done some modern apps and APIs, but how do you really scale this across your enterprise? That's what I think is excited today. And that's what we're talking about. Some of the tools we're bringing to Amazon to help people achieve faster, consumption, better scale, more security. >> You know, one of the things about VMware that's been impressive over the years is that on the wave of IT, they already had great operational install base. They did a deal with Amazon Ragu did that. I think 2016, that kind of cleared the air. They're not going to do their own cloud or they have cloud efforts kind of solidifies that. And then incomes, Kubernetes, and then you saw a completely different cloud native wave coming in with the Tanzu, the Heptio acquisition. And since then a lot's been done. Can you just take us through the Tanzu evolution because I think this is a cornerstone of what's happening right now. >> Yeah, that's a great question, John. I think that the emergence of Kubernetes as a common set of APIs that every cloud and almost every infrastructure agrees on was a huge one. And the way I talked to our clients about is that VMware is doing a couple of things in this space. The first is that we're recognizing that as an infrastructure or baking Kubernetes into every vSphere, be it vSphere on-prem, be it BMC on Amazon. You're just going to find Kubernetes is a big part of each year. So that's kind of a big step one, but it's in some ways the same way that Amazon is doing with EKS and Azure EKS, but like every infrastructure provider is bringing Kubernetes everywhere. And then that kind of unleashes this really exciting moment where you've got this global control plane that you can program to be your DevSecOps platform. And Kubernetes has this incredible model of extensibility where you can add CRDs and program, right against the Kubernetes APIs with your additional features and functions you want your DevSecOps pipeline. And so it's created this opportunity for Tanzu to kind of have then a global control plan, which we call Tanzu Mission Control to bring all of those Kubernetes running in different clouds together. And then the last thing that we'll talk about a little bit more is this Tanzu Application Platform, which is bringing a developer experience to Kubernetes. So that you're not always starting with what I like to say, like, oh, I have Kubernetes, am I done? There's a lot more to the story than that. >> I want to get to this Tanzu Application Platform on EKS. I think that's a big story at VMware. We've seen that, but before we do that for the folks out there watching who are like, I'm now seeing this, whether they're young, new to the industry or enterprises who have replatforming or refactoring, trying to understand what is a modern application. So give us the definition in your words, what is a modern application? >> You know, John, it's a great question. And I tend to start with why and like, hey, how did we get here? And you, you and I both, I think, used to work for the bigger iron vendors back in the day. And we've seen the age of the big box Silicon Valley. I don't know, I worked at Sun just across the aisle here and basically we'd sell you a big box and then once or twice a year, you'd change the software on it. And so in a sense, like there was no chance to do user-oriented design or any of these things. Like you kind of got what you got and you hope to scale it. And then modern applications have been much more of the age of like what you might say, like Instagram or some of these modern apps that are very user-oriented and how you're changing that user interface that user design might change every week based on user feedback. And you're constantly using big data to adjust that modern app experience. And so modern apps to me are inherently iterative and inherently scalable and amenable to change. And that's where the 12 factor application manifesto was written, a blog was written a decade ago, basically saying here's how you can start to design apps to be constantly upgradable. So to me, modern apps, 12 of factors, one of them Kubernetes compatible, but the real point is that they should be flexible to be constantly iterated on maybe at least once a week at a minimum and designed and engineered to do that. And that takes them away from the old vertically scaled apps that kind of ran on 172 processors that you would infrequently update in the past. Those are what you might call like cloud apps. Is that helpful? >> Yeah, totally helpful. And by the way, those old iron vendors, they're now called the on-premise vendors and, you know, HPE, Dell and whatnot, IBM. But the thing about the cloud is, is that you have the true infrastructure as code happening. It's happened, it's happening, but faster and better and greater the goodness there. So you got DevSecOps, which is just DevOps with security. So DevSecOps is the standard now that everyone's shooting for. So what that means is I'm a developer, I just want to write code, the infrastructure got to work for me. So things like Lambda functions are all great things. So assuming that there's going to be this now programmable layer for developers just to do stuff. What is, in context to that need, what is the Tanzu Application Platform about and how does it work? >> Yeah, that's a great question, John. So once you have Kubernetes, you have this abundance of programmable, inner infrastructure resources. You can do almost anything with it, right? Like you can run machine learning workflows, you can run microservices, you can build APIs, you can import legacy apps to it, but it doesn't come out of the box with a set of application patterns and a set of controllers that are built for just, you know, modern apps. It comes with sort of a lot of flexibility and it expects you to understand a pretty broad surface area of APIs. So what we're doing is we're following in the footsteps of companies like Netflix and Uber, et cetera, all of which built kind of a developer platform on top of their Kubernetes infrastructure to say, here's your more templatized path to production. So you don't have to configure everything. You're just changing the right parts of the application. And we kind of go through three steps. The first is an application template that says, here's how to build a streaming app on Kubernetes, click here, and you'll get in your version control and we'll build a Kubernetes manifest for it. Two, is an automated containerization, which is we'll take your app and auto create a container for it so that we know it's secure and you can't make a mistake. And then three is that it will auto detect your application and build a Kubernetes deployment for it so that you can deploy it to Kubernetes in a reliable way. We're basically trying to reduce the burden on the developer from having to understand everything about Kubernetes, to really understanding their domain of the application. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, and this kind of is inline, you mentioned Netflix early on. They were one of the pioneers in inside AWS, but they had the full hyperscaler developers. They had those early hardcore devs that are like unicorns. No, you can't hire these people. They're just not many enough in the world. So the world's becoming, I won't say democratization, that's an overused word, but what we're getting to is if I get this right, you're saying you're going to eliminate the heavy lifting, the boring mundane stuff. >> Yeah, even at Netflix as is great of a developers they have, they still built kind of a microservices or an application platform on top of AWS. And I think that's true of Kubernetes today, which if you go to a Kubernetes conference, you'll often see, don't expose Kubernetes to developers. So tons of application platforms starts to really solve that question. What do you expose to a developer when they want to consume Kubernetes? >> So let's ask you, I know you do a lot of customer visits, that's one of the jobs that make you go out in the field which you like doing and working backwards on the customers has been in the DNA of VMware for years. What is the big narrative with the customers? What's their pain point? How else has the pandemics shown them projects that are working and not working, and they want to come out of it with a growth strategy. VMware is now an independent company. You guys got the platform, what are the customers doing with it? >> Well, I'll give you one example. You know, I went out and I was chatting with the retailer, had seen their online sales goes from one billion to like three billion during the pandemic. And they had been using kind of packaged shopping cart software before like a basic online store that they bought and configured. And they realized they needed to get great at modern apps to keep up with customer demand. And so I would say in general, we've seen the drive, the need for modern apps and digital transformation is just really skyrocketing and everyone's paying attention to it. And then I think they're looking for a trusted partner and they're debating, do we build it all in-house or do we turn to a partner that can help us build this above the cloud? And I think for the people that want an enterprise trusted brand, they'll have a lot of engineering talent behind it. There's been strong interest in Tanzu. And I think the big message we're trying to get out is that Tanzu can not only help you in your on-prem infrastructure, but it can also really help you on public cloud. And I think people are surprised by just how much. >> It's just in the common thread. I see that it's that point is right on is that these companies that don't digitize their business and build an application for their customer are going to get taken away by a startup. I mean, we've seen, it's so easy if you don't have an app for that, you're out of business. I mean, this is like, no, no, it's not like maybe we should do the cloud, let's get proactive. Pretty much it's critical path now for companies. So I'm sure you agree with that, but what's the progress of most of the enterprises? What percentage do you think are having this realization? >> I would say at least 70, 80%, if not more, are there now, and 10 years ago, I used to kind of have to tell stories, like, you know, some startups going to come along and they might disrupt you and people kind of give you that like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I get it. And now it's sort of like, hey, someone's already in our market with an API. Tell me how to build API first apps we need to compete. And that's the difference in the strategic conversation kind of post pandemic and post, you know, the last 10 years. >> All right, final question for you 'cause this is right great thread. I've seen having a web interface it's not good enough, to your point. You got to have an application that they're engaging with, with all the modern capabilities, because the needs there, the expectation for the customers there. What new things are you seeing beyond mobile that are coming around the pike for enterprises, obviously web to mobile, mobile to what? What's next? >> I think the thing that's interesting is there is a bigger push to say more and more of what we do should be an API both internally, like, hey, other teams might want to consume some of these services as a well-formed API. I call it kind of like Stripe MB. Like you look at all these companies, they're like, Hey, stripes worth a hundred billion dollars now because they built a great API. What about us? And so I've seen a lot of industries from automotive to of course financial services and others that are saying, what if we gave our developers internally great APIs? And what if we also expose those APIs externally, we could get a lot, a more rat, fast moving business than the traditional model we might've had in the past. >> It's interesting, you know, commoditizing and automating a way infrastructure or software or capable workflows is actually normal. And if you can unify that in a way that's just better I mean, you have a lower cost structure, but the value doesn't go away, right? So I think a lot of this comes down to, beauty's in the eye of the beholder. I mean, that's how DevSecOps works. I mean, it's agile, it's faster, but you still have to achieve the value of the net is lower cost. What's your take on that? >> Well, I think you're dead right, John. And I think this is what was surprising about Stripe is it was possible before Stripe to go out as a developer and kind of pulled together a backend that did payments, but boy, it was hard. And I think that's the same thing with kind of this tons of application platform and the developer experience focus is people are realizing they can't hire enough developers. So this is the other thing that's happened during the pandemic and the great resignation, if you will, the war for talent is on. And you know, when I talked to a customer, like we might be able to help you, even 30% with your developer productivity, there's like one out of four developers. You might not have to be able to have to recruit they're all in. And so I think that API first model and the developer experience model are the same thing, which is like, it doesn't have to just be possible. It should be excellent. >> Well, great insight learning a lot. Of course, we should move to theCube API and we'll plug into your applications. We're here in the studio with our API, James. Great to have you on. Final word, what's your take this, the big story for re:Invent. If you had to summarize this year's re:Invent going in to 2022, what would you say is happening in this industry right now? >> You know, I'm just super excited about the EKS market and how fast it's growing. We're seeing EKS in a lot of places. We're super excited about helping EKS customers scale. And I think it's great to see Amazon adopting that standard API from Kubernetes. And I think that's going to be, just awesome to watch the creativity the industry is going to have around it. >> Well, great insight, thanks for coming on. And again, we'll work on that Cube API for you. The virtualization of theCUBE is here. We're virtual, which we could be in-person and hope to see you in-person soon. Thanks for coming on. >> You too John, thank you. >> Okay, Cube's coverage of alias re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host for theCUBE. In this segment, we're going to be talking about Red Hat and the AWS evolving partnership. A great segment, really talking about how Hybrid and the Enterprise are evolving, certainly multicloud and the horizon. But a lot of benefits in the cloud, we've been covering on theCUBE and on SiliconANGLE with Red Hat for the past year. Very relevant. We've got Gunnar Hellekson, GM of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, And Joe Fernandes, VP and GM of the Hybrid Platforms, both of Red Hat. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Yeah, thanks for having us. >> Thanks for having us John. >> So, you know, me, I'm a fan boy of Red Hat. So I always say, you guys made all the right investments, OpenShift, all these things that you guys made decisions years ago playing out beautifully. And I think, you know, with Amazon's re:Invent, you're seeing the themes all play out. Modern application stack, you're starting to see things at the top of the stack evolve, you've got 5G in the Edge, workloads being redefined and expanded on the cloud with Cloud Scale. So everything has been going down to Hybrid and Enterprise grade level discussions. This is in the Wheelhouse of Red Hat. So I want to congratulate you. But what's your reaction? What do you guys see this year at re:Invent? What's the top story? >> I can start. >> Who wants to start with first? >> Sure, I mean, clearly, AWS itself is huge. But as you mentioned, the world is Hybrid, right, so customers are running still in their data center, in the Amazon Public Cloud across multiple Public Clouds and out to the Edge and bring in more and more workloads. So it's not just the applications, analytics. It's AI, it's machine learning. And so, yeah, we can expect to see more discussion around that, more great examples of customer use cases. And as you mentioned, Red Hat has been right in the middle of this for some time John. >> You guys also had some success with the fully managed OpenShift service called ROSA, R-O-S-A, which is Red Hat OpenShift Service on AWS, another acronym, but really this is about what the customers are looking for. Can you take us through an update on OpenShift on AWS, because the combination of managed services in the cloud, refactoring applications, but working on-premises is a big deal. Take us through why that's so important. >> Yeah, so, we've had customers running OpenShift on AWS for a long time, right? So whether it's our software-based offerings where customers deploy OpenShift themselves, or our fully managed cloud service. We've had cloud services on AWS for over five years. What ROSA brings or Red Hat OpenShift on AWS is a jointly managed service, right? So we're working in partnership with Amazon, with AWS to make OpenShift available as a jointly-managed service offering. It's a native AWS service offering. You can get it right through the AWS console. You can leverage your AWS committed spend. But, most importantly, you know, it's something that we're working on together. Bringing new customers to the table for both Red Hat and AWS. And we're really excited about it because it's really helping customers accelerate their move to the public cloud and really helping them drive that Hybrid strategy that we talked about. >> Gunnar, you know what I want to get your thoughts on this, because one of the things that I love about this market right now is open-source continues to be amazing, continues to drive more value, and there's new migration of talent coming in. The numbers are just continuing to grow and grow. But the importance of Red Hat's history with AWS is pretty significant. I mean, Red Hat pioneered Open-source and it's been involved with AWS from the early days. Can you take us through a little bit of history for the folks that may not know Red Hat's partnership with AWS? >> Yeah. I mean, we've been collaborating with AWS since 2008. So for over a decade we've been working together, and what's made the partnership work is that we have a common interest in making sure that customers have a consistent approachable experience. Whether they're going on-premise or in the cloud. Nobody wants to have to go through an entire retraining and retooling exercise just to take advantage of all the great advantages of the cloud. And, so being able to use something like Red Hat Enterprise Linux as a consistent substrate on which you can build your application platforms is really attractive. So, that's where the partnership started. And since then we've had the ability to better integrate with native AWS services. And one thing I want to point out is that, a lot of these integrations are kind of technical. It's not just about technical consistency across these platforms, it's also about operational consistency and business concerns. And when you're moving into an Open Hybrid Cloud kind of a situation, that's what becomes important, right? You don't want to have two completely different tool sets on two completely different platforms. You want as much consistency as possible as you move from one to the other. And I think a lot of customers see value in that, both for the Red Hat Enterprise Linux side of the business, and also on the OpenShift side of the business. >> Well that's interesting. I'd love to get your both perspective on this whole Enterprise focus, because the Enterprise is, as you know, guys you've been there from the beginning, they have requirements. And there're sometimes, they're different by Enterprise. So as you see cloud, and I remember early days of Amazon, it's the 15th year of AWS, 10th year of re:Invent as a conference. I mean, that seems like a lifetime ago. But that's not, not too far ago where, you know, it was like, well, Amazon might not make it, its only for developers. Enterprisers do their own thing. Now it's like, it's all about the Enterprise. How are Enterprise customers evolving with you guys? Because they're all seeing the benefit of replatforming. But as they refactor, how has Red Hat evolved with that trend and how have you helped Amazon? >> Yeah, so as we mentioned, Enterprisers really across the globe are adopting a Hybrid Cloud Strategy. But, Hybrid actually isn't just about the infrastructure. So, its certainly the infrastructure where these Enterprisers are running these applications is increasingly becoming Hybrid as you move from data center to multiple public clouds and out to the Edge. But the Enterprisers application portfolios are also Hybrid, right? It's a Hybrid mix of very traditional monolithic and tier type applications. But also new cloud native services that have either been built from scratch, or as you mentioned, existing applications have been refactored. And then they're moving beyond the applications, as I mentioned to make better use of data. Also evolving their processes for how they build, deploy, and manage, leveraging, CI/CD and GitOps and so forth. So really for us it's, how do you help Enterprises bring all that together, right? Manage this Hybrid infrastructure that's supporting this Hybrid portfolio of applications that really help them evolve their processes. We've been working with Enterprises on these types of challenges for a long time. And we're now partnering with Amazon to do the same in terms of our joint product and service offerings. >> Talking about the RHEL evolution. I mean, because that's the bread and butter for Red Hat. It has been there for a long time. OpenShift again, making argument earlier, I mentioned the bets you guys made with Kubernetes, for instance, and it's all been made with all the right moves. So I love ROSA. You got me sold on that. RHEL though has been the tried and true steady workhorse. How has that evolved with workloads? >> Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think when customers were at the stage, when they were wondering, if well, can I use AWS to solve my problem, or should I use AWS to solve my problem? Our focus was largely on kind of technical enablement. Can we keep up with the pace of new hardware that Amazon is rolling up? Can we ensure that consistency with the on-premise and off-premise? And I think now we're starting to shift focus into really differentiating RHEL on the AWS platform. Again, integrating natively with AWS services, making it easier to operate in AWS. And a good example of this is using tools like Red Hat Insights, which we announced, I guess, about a year ago. Which is now included in every Red Hat Enterprise Linux subscription. Using tools like Insights in order to give customers advice on maybe potential problems that are coming up, helping customer solve them. Can the customers identify problems before they happen? Helping them with performance problems. And again, having additional tools like that, additional cloud-based tools, makes RHEL as easy to use on the Cloud despite all the complexity of all the redeploying, refactoring, microservices, there is now a proliferation of infrastructure options, and to the extent that RHEL can be the thing that is consistent, solid, reliable, secure, just as customers are getting in, then we can make customer successful. >> You know, Joe, we talked about this last time we were chatting, I think Red Hat Summit or Ansible Fest, I forget which event it was, but we were talking about how modern application developers at the top of the stack just want to code. They want to write some code, and now they want the infrastructure's code, AKA DevOps, DevSecOps, but as this trend of moving up the stack continues to be a big theme at re:Invent, that requires automation. That requires a lot of stuff that happened under the covers. Red Hat is at the center of all this action from historical perspective, pre-existing Enterprises before Cloud now, during Cloud, and soon to be Cloud Scale, how do you see that evolving? Because how are customers shaping their architecture? Cause this is distributed computing in the cloud. It's essentially, we've seen this moving before, but now at such a scale where data, security, these are all new elements. How do you talk about that? >> Yeah, well, first of all, got to mention, Linux is a given right. Linux is going to be available in every environment, data center, Public Cloud, Edge. Linux combined with Linux containers and Kubernetes, that's the abstraction like abstracting the applications away from the infrastructure. And now it's all about how do you build on top of that to bring that automation that you mentioned. So, we're very focused on helping customers really build fully automated end to end deployment pipelines, so they can build their applications more efficiently. They can automate the continuous integration and deployment of those applications into whatever Cloud or Edge footprint they choose. And that they can promote across environments. Because again, it's not just about developing the applications, it's about moving them all the way through to production where their customers are relying on those services to do their work and so forth. And so that's what we're doing is, you know, obviously I think, Linux is a given, Linux, Containers, Kubernetes. Those decisions have been made and now it's a matter of how can we put that together with the automation that allows them to accelerate those deployments out to production so customers can take advantage of them? >> You know, Gunnar, we were joking in theCUBE. I was old enough to remember we used to install Linux on a server back in the day. Now a lot of these young developers never actually have to install the software and do some of those configurations 'cause it's all automated now. Again, the commoditization and automation trend, abstraction layers, some say, is a good thing. So how do you see the evolution of this DevOps movement with the partnership with AWS going forward? What types of things are you working on with Amazon Web Services and what kind of offerings can customers look forward to? >> Yeah, sure. So, I mean, it used to be that as you say, Linux was something that you managed with a mouse and keyboard. And I think it's been quite a few years since any significant amount of Linux has been managed with a mouse and a keyboard. A lot of it is scripts, automation tools, configuration management tools, things like this. And the investments we've made both in RHEL and in specifically RHEL on AWS is around enabling RHEL to be more manageable. And so, including things like something we call System Roles. So these are Ansible modules that kind of automate routine system's administration tasks. We've made investments in something called Image Builder. And so this is a tool that allows customers to kind of compose the operating system that they need, create a blueprint for it, and then kind of stamp out the same image, whether it's an ISO image, so you can install it on-premise or an AMI so we can deploy it in AWS. So again, the problem used to be helping customers package and manage dependencies and that kind of old world, three and a half-inch floppy disc kind of Linux problems. And now we've evolved towards making Linux easier to deploy and manage at a grand scale whether you're in AWS or whether you're On premise. >> Joe, take us through the Hybrid story. I know obviously success with OpenShifts Managed Service on AWS. What's the update there for you? What are customers expecting this re:Invent and what's the story for you guys? >> Yeah, so, you know, the OpenShift Managed Services business this is the fastest growing segment of our business. We're seeing lots of new customers. And again, bringing new customers, I think for both Red Hat and AWS through this service. So, we expected to hear from customers at re:Invent about what they're doing. Again, not only with OpenShift and our Red Hat solutions, but really with what they're building on top of those service offerings, of those solutions to sort of bring more value to their customers. To me, that's always the best part of re:Invent is really hearing from customers. And when we all start going there in person again, to actually be able to meet with them one-on-one, whether it's in person or virtual and so forth. So, looking forward to that. >> Well, great to have you guys on theCUBE. Congratulations on all success. The Enterprise continues to adopt more and more Cloud which benefits all the work you guys have done both on the RHEL side, and as you guys modernize with all these great services and managed services continues to be the center of all the action. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >> Thanks John. >> Thank you. >> Okay, Red Hat's partnership with AWS evolving as Cloud scale Edge, all distributed computing, all happening at large scale. This is theCUBE with CUBE coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(bright upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome back to theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier your host of theCUBE wall-to-wall coverage, Sumit Dhawan president of VMware is joining me today. Sumit, welcome to theCUBE. >> Great to be here, John, good to see you. >> You know, I remember Raghu when we were talking to him when the original AWS deal, we covered it many, many years ago. It seems like yesterday, but since then, again, it was a lot of people who were kind of like looking at that deal, not understanding. We were very clear that we thought that that was going to create clarity. If you look at the success of VMware's cloud strategy, since that moment in time, it really has been an amazing run for VMware. And so congratulations and looking at that trajectory, we're going into what even a bigger wave now we're seeing, coming out of the pandemic with Edge, 5g, Cloud Native going mainstream. This is like another tipping point, another inflection. Well, how are we want to look at it? This is really big. Can you share your thoughts on how you see your customers and AWS customers coming together with the VMware. >> Yeah, we are excited about sort of this phase, era or whatever you want to call it, where customers are looking at just the power of cloud for all of their applications. And in fact, what we call multicloud, where they are looking at private cloud, public cloud, sometimes even multiple public clouds and Edge and how they are going to leverage all of this power of cloud across all their applications. And we're excited about the partnership, like you said, John, we did with AWS, customers have last two years, have had a hard time modernizing their infrastructure. And now they're looking at their tier one applications, which are oftentimes the lifeline of their businesses and they have not been, the infrastructure has not been modernized. And our partnership with AWS brings to the customers a fully modernized infrastructure as a service, which is optimized for their tier one application. So they can embrace the power of cloud, not just for new modern applications that they have built for running their new digital services, but also all of their tier one enterprise applications instantly modernize their infrastructure, secure it run their tier one applications through the power and the scale of public cloud. And then gradually start modernizing, like you mentioned, modernization of application is a key element and we have provided a rich stack for customers to be able to build their new SRE and DevOps practices and enable developers to have a fast journey to build these modern applications, leveraging the power of public cloud and in fact multiple public clouds seamlessly, and we're extending the same thing to the Edge. So it's actually exciting times in the industry. We call it the multicloud era and VMware is enabling our customers what we call smartest path to cloud. >> Well, congratulations, first of all, on the new independent company, VMware, that's great news. You guys now are on your own very valuable company in and of itself, under Dell Technologies now out on the open and we've been covering VMware, theCube's been to VMware every year. And looking at this year's VMware and looking at VMware for the old folks, the veterans VMware has been synonymous with operations, IT operations, running workloads in data centers to power business, enterprise classic innovation for business value. Now with the cloud, you see operations DevOps being discussed in security. You're talking about, and you mentioned SRE the workloads. The game is still the same, but it is shifting landscape wise. You got cloud scale, you mentioned on premises and multi-cloud. So with operations going to full scale, your customers are building and running their businesses on VMware and AWS and other clouds. This is the same game, but different world. Can you just share what's the current similarities and differences from where operations used to be from a workload standpoint. >> John, you're a hundred percent, right. The need for operational scale and discipline is always, there has always been there and now it's extended to potentially lot more complex world of what we call multicloud. In this new world, the whole aspect of operations is no longer the world of system admins, where you would have people pushing buttons to control the infrastructure and it's lot more where infrastructure is now designed to be managed as a code. There is a lot more of what is considered shift left, where more and more of power of orchestrating the infrastructure as given to the developers because they're oftentimes the sort of ones who understand the business logic and understand how the infrastructure is required to scale up and down the applications. And so along those two key trends, there is still a critical element of how a platform is needed for customers to operate that in Miami okay. You can sort of have operational discipline be lost just because you have the paradigm changed and that's what VMware is enabling now with VMware stack, you can manage your entire infrastructure, not just public cloud, but even private cloud as a code, you can create a platform where developers get this freedom and a great experience to leverage any public cloud, to build their services and work closely with DevOps and SRE functions, to make sure that the orchestration of all of their cloud environment in a multicloud environment is available and enabled seamlessly through Kubernetes. This doesn't have to be done through virtual machines anymore it could be virtual machines or Kubernetes orchestrated containers across all clouds. And so bottom line operations has always been critical, but it has been done in a certain way in the world of multicloud it's changed to where it's more and more of infrastructure as a service shift left to developers and cybersecurity is extremely important where it needs to be built into the platform. And that's what VMware solutions are now enabling for our customers. >> Yeah, and for all the young guns coming into the business that have developers, the DevOps is still the same game. You've got developers and you've got operations now at large scale. And I think this whole multi-cloud is really kind of the multi-vendor equation so I think clear synergies and congratulations on the trajectory. I think it's really relevant. Can you take us through on how this means for the businesses, because at VMWorld this year, you guys talked about cross-cloud services. Can you talk about what that is and what does it mean for the customers, and what's the focus at reInvent this year? >> Yeah, so VMware this year at VMworld announced our sort of portfolio for enabling customers to embrace the power of multicloud easily. We call it cross-cloud services and they fit into five major categories. First is our cloud infrastructure that is available through partnership with all major cloud providers. We started with AWS and we expanded with all major cloud providers, including Azure, Google, Ali in China, Oracle, IBM. Secondly, our cloud native platform, Cloud native platform is where it doesn't have to be traditional VM based applications, applications built using modern cloud native technologies container-based, or that can be orchestrated using Kubernetes that are operationalized using our platform where customers can get any Kubernetes on any public cloud and operate them in a consistent and scalable fashion and enable a great developer experience at the same time. Third is networking and security services, which are underlay across both the cloud infrastructure, as well as cloud native services for this cloud management, how infrastructure as a code and shift-left developer function can be enabled through our management technologies designed for both private and public cloud, both VM based or VMware based infrastructure, as well as native public cloud infrastructure. And then lastly, at workspace and Edge services, enabling customers to build today's requirements of people working from anywhere and anywhere workspace experience for a hybrid workforce. So these are our five cloud services, John, that we call collectively as cross-cloud services, which enable customers to embrace the power of multicloud easily. These are modular, easy to acquire services designed to run across all clouds. And obviously for customers looking at leveraging the power of AWS, these services enable you to embrace it AWS at the fastest speed. >> Yeah and I think anything cross-cloud, multi-cloud, the ease of use and choice is key, you have to have choice that's cool. Open source is driving a lot of that, which I want to get to with the Tanzu, but you guys have had a great partnership with AWS, both on a development level, as well as a business partnership. Take us through the evolution of the partnership between VMware and AWS, because I know Raghu was really into this with Pat Gelsinger and then Andy Jassy, we covered that. But if you look at what Amazon web services is doing under Adam's leadership now they're going to set the table for the next 15 years. And you've got Outpost is going to be a big part of that. You've got all of the cloud native high level services inside the cloud, inside AWS as well. So take us through your view of the evolution of the VMware AWS partnership. >> Yeah I mean, AWS and VMware started a partnership for those of you who don't know, we started our partnership about five years ago, where we announced the availability of VMware cloud on AWS, which is all of our fully sort of modernized software defined data centers infrastructure available for running tear one enterprise applications on top of AWS all of their data centers globally. So our software with AWS hardware together as a managed service means customers could get fully modern infrastructure without refactoring any of their applications. They can run on AWS. And that relationship has grown significantly. We have continued to enable more and more of sort of different sized sort of platform infrastructure that we have continually made available. And the business has led to great success. We have at this point in time thousands of customers, joint customers running all of their tier one business applications, whether it's banking to healthcare, to insurance on top of our infrastructure, and it's been great. We then gradually expanded that partnership to other industries. Now we have customers in telcos running major telco cloud on top of our platform, we've expanded our partnership to other solutions. We brought our Tanzu, which is our cloud native platform for managing native cloud services on AWS, in an enterprise fashion, connected to all of their enterprise requirements as well in the marketplace we have brought other offerings, including security services on AWS marketplace for customers to get so over time. >> Hold on Sumit if you don't mind me asking, so you saying that Tanzu Carbon Black and VMware cloud are all in AWS marketplace. >> They're all available in AWS marketplace and they're all available to be transacted through even just the AWS's EDP. So the commercial relationship with AWS has strengthened significantly over time. >> EDP is their sales channel that's their direct. >> EDP is their enterprise agreement that's right. >> So you go to market together with AWS under the marketplace. >> Joint support integration so their customers can get joint support with us. So over time, the technology integration that started has led to strong commercial integrations, helping making sure customers can get one commercial agreement and one support agreement with VMware and AWS together. And that's been great for customers, customers have loved it and we are continuing to build upon it. Your second question was, well, what happens when AWS has new modern native services? And what we have done is for example, at Tanzu Solution, it is integrated with AWS's EKS. So their Kubernetes distribution can be fully operationalized as well as a great developer experience can be created for AWS native services using VMware Tanzu solution. So we are embracing the power of more and more of AWS services for our enterprise solutions. >> You know I love following VMware, especially and AWS. I spoke to companies, both very technical, pragmatic, very smart companies So congratulations on success. I got to ask you from a customer perspective, as you look at the landscape of the commercial side, what are the customers saying? What's the big summary of where they're at? What's the vibe, where's their head, what are they thinking? Take us through some anecdotal customer sentiment or data. >> Yeah, our customers tell us three things consistently. Number one, they say that they have, at this point of time, just decided that they're going to have some kind of a black solution, which will span multiple clouds, which could have public cloud, private cloud and Edge or multiple public clouds. In fact, we just did a recent survey, John and we found that 74% of our customers are already using multiple clouds. And 90 plus percent said that they want that freedom and choice to be able to use cloud of their choice and not be encumbered by any particular sort of just choice that they make. So that's the first trend we see, secondly, customers want to modernize their infrastructure and modernize their applications. They haven't been able to do so over the course of last two years, and modernization is a key requirement and VMware and AWS gives them that ability to do so now at this point in time, very, very quickly. And then third thing we hear is that customers are looking for some solution where cybersecurity is built in it's something where they are standardizing their enterprise requirements via a platform, which has a great experience for the developers, great operational scale and cybersecurity. And these are the three trends John, that VMware is solely focused on as part of our services and solutions and our partnership with AWS. >> Sumit, always great to talk to you. One final point. I want to get your reaction to a VMware has made a couple of big bets in the past decade. One, the deal with Amazon, which opened the door for multicloud, that path is clear. Cloud-scale check the box well done. And the other one was cloud native technologies and Kubernetes specifically, two big bets that don't, that kind of no one kind of saw coming, turns out they turned out pretty well. What's your reaction to that? Would you agree? And how would you talk about those two events? >> Yeah, we at VMware always considered sort of how we are going to keep innovating and the way we see the world is follow where the applications are going. It's pretty simple. Okay we saw that a few years ago where cloud and container technologies are where the applications are going. And we innovated through both our organic investments, as well as inorganic investments to bring our VMware cloud Solutions and Tanzu Solutions. And similarly, John, we're looking at now the next generation of applications where we fast forward three years down the road, we envision a great degree of innovation is going to happen in the Edge. And that's the third sort of area of innovation for us. So that public cloud or multi-cloud cloud native applications, as well as Edge applications can all be orchestrated using VMware's cross-cloud services. >> Sumit Dhawan, president of VMware thanks for coming on theCUBE we appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of the event. I'm John Furrier host of theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (bright upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome everyone to theCUBE, continuing coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm Lisa Martin. We are running one of the industry's most important and largest hybrid tech events this year, two live sets, two remote studios with AWS, and its ecosystem partners. We've got over a hundred guests on the program this year, going deep as we enter the next decade of cloud innovation. We are pleased to welcome for the first time to theCUBE, John Kodumal, the CTO and co-founder of LaunchDarkly. John is here to talk about modern DevOps with feature management. John, welcome to the program. >> Thanks for having me, Lisa. >> Great to have you on the program. Let's talk a little bit about LaunchDarkly. I know it's been on theCUBE a couple of times, but it's been awhile. Give the audience an overview of LaunchDarkly, what it is that you do and what's new. >> Yeah. LaunchDarkly is the leading platform for feature management. We allow developers, product managers, anyone in the practice of building software to leverage feature flags, to deliver better software faster, a better product experiences through the use of feature flags. >> One thing that I noticed on the website is you guys have some big customer names, Square, I also saw Adidas, NBC, at least you've got some pretty big organizations that are relying on LaunchDarkly to deliver and control their software. What can you tell us about it from a customer perspective? >> Yeah. You know, it's an amazing thing. We have over 30% of the Fortune 100 using the LaunchDarkly platform for feature management. And, you know, I think it's been incredible to see how basically anyone building software can leverage feature flags to deliver better customer experiences. So, the companies you named, I mean, they're all over the map in terms of the kinds of products they deliver to consumers from Square to Adidas. I mean, those are totally different companies, but I think the thing that they all have in common is that they're increasingly becoming... They're either already a software company or they're increasingly becoming a software company and that's where we help our customers, the customers that are delivering more digital experiences to their consumers. >> That is table stake these days, you mentioned all software, all companies rather becoming software companies. If they're not, they're probably not going to be around much longer and you're right. You mentioned that's a quite a variety, NBC to Adidas as I talked about there, but in terms of what they have in common, talk to me a little bit about feature management. What is it and how can it help to bridge the divide between the developer folks, the business side of the organization? >> Absolutely. I think the fundamental thing that feature management provides, the simplest thing, that the thing that people first utilize LaunchDarkly for is to separate the processes of deploying software from releasing software. So it used to be in a pre-LaunchDarkly world, when you deploy a new piece of software, you package the artifact up, you put it out on your servers, and then your entire customer base was experiencing that new version of the software. So, if things were going wrong, if there was a bug, something wasn't working right, your blast radius was enormous. Literally, your entire customer base was impacted. And one of the things that LaunchDarkly does, the first thing that we do, the first piece of value that we provide is we help you sort of reduce that risk. So when you release a change, you can deliver that change to a much more targeted, smaller, safer cohort of users, measure the impact of what's going on. Are there any bugs? Are there any performance problems? Or is everything's smooth sailing? And if it is, then you can use LaunchDarkly to rapidly, and with a lot of visibility control, scale that release and scale that roll-out out. And that's the most fundamental value that we provide. >> Big value there. Speaking of value, let's talk about the partnership with LaunchDarkly and AWS. I know you have a lot of experience working with AWS for many years back when you were at Atlassian, but give us an overview of the partnership and that shared developer audience that you're both working with. >> Yeah. I've got a number of years of experience working with AWS. So, you mentioned my time prior to starting LaunchDarkly, I was at Atlassian for many years, and I was at Atlassian and during that time period where Atlassian was switching from traditional hosting providers to public cloud, to AWS specifically, and the capabilities that an unlocked, not only for our operations teams, but for our developers were pretty incredible. One of the things that we launched almost immediately on my team was the ability to like preview environments through AWS hosting and have that experience not happen on the local developers desktop, but rather in the cloud. And that was incredibly helpful for improving our velocity and helping us preview changes. Since starting LaunchDarkly, I mean, we've leveraged cloud and AWS in particular from the earliest days, we started the platform on AWS and we've been consuming more and more services through AWS and seeing more and more value. From a partnership perspective, we're incredibly excited because we have a massive number of customers that are either just beginning their public cloud journey or are making significant migrations or significant infrastructure changes, and they're using the LaunchDarkly platform to control the release of those changes to mitigate risk. We have customers using us to do migrations from one cloud provider to another, or go through modernization efforts and push change out safely as they migrate to a provider like AWS. >> Talk to me about some of the things that you've seen in the last year and a half, 20 months or more probably. Since the pandemic started, we've seen so much acceleration to cloud, so much cloud migration, so many companies, not only becoming software companies because they need to be competitive but understanding it's not why move to the cloud, it's when. How have you helped organizations, you know, from the NBC, the media folks to the retailers, to undergo those migrations safely but quickly in a time of such dynamics? >> Yeah, I mean, that is exactly what we saw during the pandemic, a massive amount of change, not just in the move to digital and digital experiences, but also in the need to sort of adapt to rapidly changing conditions. We had customers in, for example, food delivery that needed to rapidly change the way their software behaved in response to changes in regulations or guidelines around things like COVID. And our platform really was transformative for many of those organizations as they sort of needed to become more flexible and adapt, not only to changing rules and regulations, but changing consumer behavior and changing end-user behavior. So, it was an incredible year. It was a year that was sort of fraught with uncertainty, but it was a year where LaunchDarkly, our platform really helped many of our customers sort of navigate the waters and figure out how to get the experiences they needed to and the change they needed to in front of their customers rapidly. >> Yeah. Rapid being a keyword of the last 20 years, it feels like 20 years, doesn't it? Two years, 40 and slipped there. But talk to me a little bit about some of the other trends that you're seeing from a cloud perspective. We talked about the acceleration of migration. What are some of the other trends that your customers are facing and how is LaunchDarkly helping them to address those trends? >> Yeah. One of the trends that we're seeing is the rapidity of change is forcing companies that even companies that were really software driven at their heart to iterate more rapidly. I think there's this story around modernization that is becoming more and more common where you normally think of modernization as sort of like legacy companies, sort of non software-driven companies, having to make that shift and modernize their software stacks, but the rapid pace of change is it's shifting things into a world where even companies like my own company, like LaunchDarkly are having to modernize our stack. Our company is seven years old. And some of the things that we were doing seven years ago, they've been eclipsed in terms of like processes, tools, technologies, and use. And so we've had to go through modernization as well to keep up with the times and to give our developers the quality of tools and processes that they expect. >> I think that's an important point, John, that you bring up is that modernization isn't just for legacy applications, legacy businesses, and I'll be honest, that's how I normally think about it. I don't think of a company as young as LaunchDarkly needing to modernize, but you bring up a point that really what it is is an ongoing process for businesses in any industry. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you think about what the landscape looked like seven years ago and you fast forward to today, so many of the practices are different. So even companies like us, we're having to change. I mean, seven years ago, it wasn't really clear that Kubernetes was going to be a platform that was going to end up being the winner and sort of like the orchestration space. And so when we were starting out, none of our workloads were on Kubernetes. And even today, we're not really significantly using Kubernetes, we're sort of like legacy container-based. And that's just us, we're still a startup and we're still able to move pretty rapidly. But even for us, we're having to sort of like revisit the technologies and use and modernize our stack and kind of look around and see what's not working anymore and what we need to change. It's certainly a pace that is massively different from a company that is relying on a legacy software stack, I don't want to pretend like LaunchDarkly is, I would compare us to a company that's moving off of mainframes and COBOL or anything like that, but it's still something that we're cognizant of and something that we have to invest in. >> But you bring up a good point. And as we talk about this when we're talking with any vendor about, from the customer's perspective, it's a journey, it's the same thing that you're talking about here. It's evaluating what you have under the hood, what's working, what needs to be better as the markets change, as the dynamics change, as trends change. >> Yeah. That's exactly how I think about it and that's how a lot of these companies that are becoming more software-driven are thinking about it too. Just sort of like assessing the catalog of tools and technologies and saying what's working, what's not working. And I think one of the trends that we're seeing is that re-evaluation is happening more and more frequently and the frequency of new technologies and tools being adopted is increasing. And so, it's something that you have to spend an enormous amount of effort just to stay ahead of the game and stay ahead of what's modern. The practices that we've determined are really working for organizations. >> Right, exactly. So, I mentioned a few customers by name that work with LaunchDarkly, but can you tell me an example of one of your favorite customer stories that you think really articulate the value that LaunchDarkly is delivering to your customers across industries? >> Yeah. What comes to mind is TrueCar. TrueCar has been a LaunchDarkly customer for a long time. They're great partners of ours. We have a case study up with them. And one of the stories that they talked about was their own cloud migration. They shifted their workloads from one cloud provider to another and feature flags were instrumental in that. So, feature flags allowed them to sort of gate the flow of traffic from one cloud to another and to sort of in real-time assess whether things were working or not as they did that migration. It took a process that would have been incredibly risky and scary, and made it sort of business as usual for that organization. So, that's a company that I think of that really understands the value of LaunchDarkly and has really leveraged us to our full potential. >> Awesome. Something I want to ask you about as well, is this concept of release impact. Compare and contrast that to like the traditional optimization focused A/B Testing. What's the difference? What are the similarities? >> Yeah. You know, A/B Testing has been around for a long time and it's used in software, definitely in the past decade has grown tremendously as a piece of the software development experience. But when I think about the practice of building deep product experiences and contrast that to sort of like A/B testing on a marketing site, you know, testing out the layout of a page, we're testing out which call to action button color ends up creating more engagement. That's a very different world than I'm building a SaaS product and I'm building this a new feature within that SaaS product. Traditionally, you wouldn't really A/B test that. And part of the reason for that is it's really too expensive to build software. And it's not really a reality that most companies have where they can take a team and have them go build a feature for multiple weeks or months, pry it out in production and then say, "You know what, that didn't work. That million dollar expense that we just made. We're just going to roll that back and not use it." So, that's sort of the way I think about the difference between a traditional optimization focused A/B Testing, where it's sort of like smaller bets designed to move the needle on a metric where if it doesn't work, you can turn it off versus these deep product experiences where what you're more interested in is being more quantitative about the impact of that release, but you're not necessarily interested in sort of like A/B testing focused optimization, picking a winner in a short period of time. One of the things that we've realized at LaunchDarkly is those are two separate tasks, they're two separate processes, and they require different analysis and different tools under the hood. And so, we're really excited at LaunchDarkly to be innovating on sort of both fronts, not only just providing a platform for optimization focused A/B Testing, but providing a platform where product managers can be more quantitative about the capabilities that they're building and not thinking about it in terms of optimization, but just in terms of measuring the impact of the work that they're shipping to customers. >> The impact, and of course, it's all outcomes focus as we talk about with customers and vendors and at any industry. Last question, John, for you as we're coming up on re:Invent in-person, what are some of the things that attendees can learn and see at the LaunchDarkly booth? >> Yeah. You're going to learn a lot about, if you visit our booth, you're going to learn a lot about sort of like the direction that we're taking, which is I think the exciting thing about LaunchDarkly as a platform is we really provide two capabilities. For engineering teams, we help you mitigate risks. We help you move more efficiently. That gives you more at bats as a team. It lets you ship more product and see whether it's working. LaunchDarkly also though provide something on the flip side of that, which is the ability for product managers to measure whether the changes that they're making are the right changes for their customers. And when you combine those two things in one platform, you get the ability for the engineering team to have more at bats, to create more change in production and see whether it's working. And then you get product managers the ability to measure the impact on their customers. And you combine that together, and at the end of the day, what LaunchDarkly provides is the ability for you as an organization to deliver business value better, more quickly through the R&D investments that you're making, the software that you're producing. >> And that's critical. I love that baseball analogy, more at bats. Fantastic, John, thank you for joining me talking to the audience about LaunchDarkly, what you're doing, the trends that you're helping customers address, the partnership with AWS, and what folks can learn when they visit the LaunchDarkly booth at re:Invent. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much, Lisa. I really enjoyed our conversation. >> Me too, for John Kodumal, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re-Invent 2021. (upbeat music)

>>Welcome everybody to the cubes live coverage of AWS reinvent 2021 we're in person for a real event to live stages, to remain studios, probably the industry's most important hybrid event of the year. Over 100 guests on the cube at AWS reinvent 2021. All right, so let's get right into it. This is 10 years of re-invent. We've been here for nine 20 plus thousand people. Everybody is coming from every industry, learning from each other, learning from AWS, learning from the things that you're observing as well. Of course, last year during the lockdown reinvent was purely virtual. Obviously the pandemic change the world for everyone. We went from thinking about the future to really just trying to make it through the next few weeks. Everybody was scrambling. What do we do? How do we pivot? How do we survive? Mode Wiley gloves, all a very bad thing, but it actually help accelerate customer journey to cloud. We saw a ton of digital innovation, >>Really looking to data and analytics and machine learning to find new opportunities, >>Some returned to the office, but now they have the tools to be able to stay at home and be more flexible. Pandemic has proven a lot of people that digital works here, but it's suppose, but it doesn't work. Every company has to be a data company. It's actually a mustache. And so is location data. They go >>Typically that data with some point we'll come back into the cloud into S3, but it will be used to do heavy duty training. And then those models get pushed back up to the us >>On the ground of all the grown under the drone. It instances where they either can't move or won't move, but their resources into the cloud. There's no conductivity latency comes up a lot in edge conversations. The value is the immediacy. Understanding that value specific to the moment it's being captured. You know, the edge, these are resorts. That's more DME they've done the full cloud in AWS regions. Cloud is something that's changing the world for a lot of customers. Obviously there's cost reasons. There's MNA reasons, remove complexity from users and make it really easy for new workloads to be added to the system. You can leverage all their AIML tools, IOT edge container, block chain, where the most complete portfolio of any cloud provider when it comes to storage and data virtually infinite resources. Now at your disposal. The last thing we wanted to be is a server huggers. We're ready to accelerate these transformations. We actually had an enterprise migrate one of the largest production applications in just four days. How do we secure our data? When we start having infrastructure in a variety of locations >>And decide who's allowed to see it, what they're allowed to see. And if you want to change your mind, you can do that instantly. And all access can be locked. >>Governance should be an enabler, not an inhibitor. You then have the modern apps. The modern apps to me are inherently iterative and inherently scalable and a amenable to change. It's not just the applications, analytics, it's AI, it's machine learning. Human interpretation is pretty talent, I would say. So that's where he comes in to augment the intelligence that we have in terms of extracting information. Now it's true infrastructure as code. If I'm spinning up servers, that means that's a low level primitive. That should be automated. Right? When we look at how we are to move up the stack and other areas, we just continue to listen to our customers. What is your business strategy and your business vision, and how do we design the technology solutions? Working back from that, using tools like insights in order to give customers advice. If you have found good, you have an idea. >>You know, the thing that he wants to disrupt, and we're letting people do that in different ways, giving control back to the end user, whether that's a consumer or an enterprise, they want to say I like it. And then I get the market is deciding I'm going to go with my software runs the best that's right. I get distribution that create value and runs fast. Our vision is eventually to have a community of about 10 to 20 million of the most extraordinary doers in the world. But really the goal is how can customers get value as quickly as possible for as low cost as possible. Point it out black and white. This is your cost. Now this is what your cost is going to be. And everybody's happy. There's a huge ecosystem of data tools out there. That's right, that you guys have as partners that want to snap together. >>So the trend is things are starting to snap together. We talk about the power of three, which is you bring a JSI partner, you bring an ISV partner, you bring AWS, you create that power of three and you take it to all customers. And you can start for a few pennies scale up, you know, into the petabytes and beyond. They have a better don't think that you wish you were 20. Again, with all this code out there, the next 15 years about opportunity transforming faster decision making your work now is to really drive the data cloud, get adoption of build that Supercloud we call it container first, cloud native first, and then make sure that everybody's kind of on that same ship running in the same direction. Five to 15% only of workloads have moved to the cloud. We're at the Dawn of the era of cloud. >>There's plenty of room for a lot of players. They can't hire enough developers. So this is the other thing that's happened during the pandemic. The war for talent is on talent is truly evenly split around the world. But what is not as opportunity in order to enable talent, do you need to educate them? Our skill builder platform provides 500 free training courses in 16 languages press 200 countries. We attract, we retain, we grow. The opportunity for innovation is limitless, and it's all about we're wrapping up four days of coverage. Two sets you go to the events and expect the signal from the noise. Stay tuned because there's always more on the cube. The global leader in live tech coverage. We'll see you next time.

>>Good morning. It's the cube live from Las Vegas. This is day four of our coverage at AWS reinvent 2021. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Nicholson. We have had since Monday two live sets two remote studios over 100 guests on the program. This is a 10th annual reinvent. We're talking about the next decade of cloud innovation and we're pleased to welcome Ashley Kramer, the chief product officer and chief marketing officer of Sisense to the program. Welcome Ashley, thanks for having me today. So you own marketing and product. Tell me a little bit about your role. Obviously that's done. >>It's a big role. It has a big role, but I think as the analytics ecosystem has evolved, it makes sense to bring the product you're building the platform you're building and the messaging that you're taking to market together in one. And so I've been in size since almost two years, and I am responsible for both the messaging and the building of the product. >>Awesome. Talk to me a little bit about the next generation of business intelligence. Define Gen-Z one, two and where we are with three. >>Yeah. So when we think about the generations of analytics and we think about how the world is evolved, we're here clearly at a cloud conference, data apps, and the way people work has evolved over time. And I think analytics hasn't quite kept up and I'll explain what I mean about that. The first generation of analytics was really about, you know, that we're talking by the way, late nineties, early two thousands, big on-premise servers of data, things that would make people here sort of cringe, right? And the way to extract value was to put an analytics server right next to it, go wait in line, ask her it, Hey, I need a report. And then wait a few weeks. That report gets delivered. It's the wrong data. It's now stale. You've got to go get back in line, enter gen two, which by the way, I was a part of in my career at Tableau. >>And what we said was let's put data at everybody's fingertips. Let's allow people via desktop tool to drag and drop and build the perfect, beautiful dashboard. And then we can deploy it to everybody and we will break down that barrier to it. And that was successful. But the one thing that we didn't understand was not, everybody's an analyst, not everybody's data literate and dashboards could be very, very intimidating to the everyday worker. And so now we're on the cusp of what we call gen three and sysynced is well-positioned to really nail this market, which is make data invisible, make analytics invisible, and bring it to where people are. And that's what we consider gen three. And I of course can talk about that for hours. So I'd love to talk more about it. >>So are the lines blurred between what people think of as artificial intelligence and BI, because you're talking about, um, you know, making this invisible or transparent, you know, frictionless access, um, are you talking recommendations or just a presentation of raw information? How are those two topics, interleaved >>Talking both. And so what's, what's really beautiful about this is the dashboard doesn't have to go away, but you have to break it apart and you have to make it less intimidating, more approachable, more understandable, which is where AI comes in natural language generation, natural language querying maybe for some people, maybe for a doctor, they want to see the data presented in plain text, plain English. Great. Let them do that. And so AI is a big, big piece of this gen three. When we think about where BI and analytics is evolving to. So >>Like it, from a customization perspective, you're going to be able to allow people in healthcare, finance, marketing, sales, operations products, be able to have data at their fingertips when they need it. Because one of the things that we learned in the pandemic is that access to real-time data is no longer a nice to have it's required. But to your point, if it's intimidating or if it's inaccessible, or if it's too complicated, it's not useful. >>That's right. And what we also learned during the pandemic is people are busy and they don't have time to change what they're doing. They don't have time to leave their everyday workflow and process to go look for something. They don't have time to look for an unnatural experience and try to interpret what it says. So customization is a huge piece of this, make it look and feel the way that a healthcare worker needs it to look and feel, make it look and feel the way that, you know, a construction worker makes it as part of their everyday job. And that's a core piece of gen three as well. >>What are some of the things that you guys are doing with AWS? Obviously, AWS, very, very customer focused. They always talk about working backwards from the customer, really this customer obsession. What are some of the things that you guys are working on together that your joint customers will benefit from? >>Fun fact, I was Amazonian as part of my career. So I grew up with Amazon in the early days of AWS. And we are very close partners with them from two really big perspectives. The first is the data's moving there, all of the data, particularly things like red shift. And that is a perfect place for size sense to sit right on top of that data, query it live, bring that and extract it to people in the way that they need it to consume. It really make data-driven decisions. The second piece is, um, and we saw a great keynote yesterday by Swami, which is the AI piece of the story, the comprehend, the Lexio, you know, really bringing to people, the data and the information and the way they need, and that all plugs into the size sense experience. And we can be that visual front end layer on top of all of those services. >>So where you sit because of your purview, looking at product marketing, and then let's, let's make, let's make the third point in the triangle, the customer always what, from your perspective, because you're thinking in terms of product customer requirements, and then you're thinking about how do you get the message across to make sure people understand what you're doing? What does a delighted customer sound like to you? What makes you smile? When someone says, Hey, Ashley, we have this customer who absolutely loves us. And these are the things they love about us. What does, what does that sound like? >>Really a very, very simple thing to answer because through my career too often, and I've read products at all of the companies I've worked for, you sell these big deals and you help them be successful with one use case. And you come back a year later in three people in the organization are actually using that solution to make data-driven decisions. So my perfect customer is, you know, we take them by the hand, we help them deploy that we come back a year later and the entire organization, all of their customers are using the solution because we've made it more approachable, more personalized and less intimidating. >>So what's the opposite of shelf ware. That's what you just described >>The opposite of shelfware and that breaks down every stat you see out there, there's a really widely known one that, um, less than 30% of organizations are actually successful with their analytics solutions. And my theory, my thesis and the research that we've done is that's exactly why it's too intimidating. It's too clunky and it's too disjointed. >>So talk to me, I, one of the things I think is the best validation of brand can get is the voice of the customer. I agree with you that it's, it's exciting when you, cause there's, there's so many, there's so many tools and you just mentioned the stat, um, in terms of adoption, but share with us a customer example that you think really articulates the value of what you're talking about. That gen three BI customizable, personable, what customer comes to mind are customers. You have. >>So one of my favorites is a company called outreach and what outreach outreach caters to is sales. It's, you know, early sales, sales enablement, helping people understand which customers should I go target. And should I go sell to, these are not analysts using the platform. And when outreach came to us, they said, we want data and analytics to drive our experience for all of our customers. But these are young salespeople. They can't just be looking at dashboards. And so what we've done with them is we were actually the AI engine that drives the experience. And as that BDR, ADR SDR gets in there, they're actually using analytics to figure out who to call what account is hot, what to do next, and right. They're actioning right in the experience. And they have no clue that they're will using data. And that's okay. And they're optimized. They're more efficient at their job because science is powering that experience. >>So they could be in Salesforce and accessing this, like under the covers, not even knowing it, they have no idea >>Exactly >>What they're empowered with BI AI to be able to make decisions. >>And they're becoming better at their jobs because they're using data and they're not learning a new skill set because they don't have time. There's no time. >>That's a great point. One of the other points that we've heard a lot, the last three days is every company has to become a data company. One thing to say it whole other can of worms, right? To actually enable it. Because to your point earlier, you have access to data it's confusing or it's stale. There's a competitor right here. Ready to take over. Talk to me about how your customer conversations have changed, especially in the last 22 months about how do we become data really? Data-driven, >>That's, that's interesting because if you would've asked me two, three years ago, I would have given you this big pitch on, well, we need to go in and help them build this culture of data and analytics, right? We're going to go in and help them. That has changed. What we need to do now is accept that building. That whole culture is too hard to do. It requires people to go beyond their job and really learn a new skill set. So what we do is we make every company, a data company by not necessarily making them really realize that they're using analytics and data. We're making it personalized. We're removing the nuances that come with building the state of literacy culture. So yes, you still need to build the culture around it and have the support, but you need it to be less intimidating and you need it to just be part of the everyday workflow, the everyday process, the everyday experience, regardless of job title. There's another interesting stat that there's over 1 billion knowledge workers out there that are underserved. That's the barrier we need to break down. Next analysts are happy. Data scientists are happy. They have what they need. How do we get what they're doing to those 1 billion plus underserved knowledge workers. >>So when you're in customer conversations and they're like, Ashley, help us figure this out. >>You say, we go in and we show, you know, we, we figure out what their business case is. And they very often say, okay, let's start with a big, huge dashboard. Step them back and say, what are you really trying to solve? Okay. You want that doctor to be more efficient? You want to triage more properly, maybe right there within your system, within your medical system. We're just going to pop, you know, we're going to pull data out of red shift and we're just going to pop some insights there. Some recommendations, as you mentioned earlier, some plain text, we'll give you a search experience so you can search, you know, what beds are open and it will bring it back to you the way that you understand how to work, you don't have to change. >>And that's critical because one of the things that we talk about all the time is change management, cultural change. It's really hard to do, especially given the dynamics of the environment that we're in. People are still scattered, working from anywhere. That's going to persist for a while. We need to meet them where they are >>Absolutely a hundred percent nailed it. And I'm going to steal that in my marketing material. Thank you. I'm a marketer trademarks. Um, but absolutely meet them where they are. And you know, everybody wants to evolve. Everybody wants to upscale and you can help them, but don't expect it to happen overnight. And don't expect they're going to take it on as a second job because their core job function is the most critical. >>It's interesting from a marketer's perspective. Um, it's always great to have people running around wearing size sense, hoodies on the customer site what's even better is having them using the product. And maybe they don't even know as long as key stakeholders in the organization knows so that you can drive, you know, drive into the market. But is there anything disheartening about sort of being toiling in obscurity at times? >>It is the hardest part of the CMO hat that I wear is you both are very likely using size sense in something that you're doing and you have no idea. And that is a brand's nightmare. So yes, checking my pockets. In fact, we are giving away Fanny packs. And as soon as I'm done, I will be over here with two Fanny packs for you. Apparently that's the new thing. That's what the kids are doing. Um, but it is very hard. It's um, we have to do more because lots of people are using size sense and actually lots of people at this conference right now, a lot of these vendors have size sense embedded, and they don't necessarily know they're using it. It's a double-edged sword though, >>Because you're saying, you know, the whole point is making analytics invisible. So, but it is, but I'll take the Fanny pack. >>I'll be out. Don't worry about that. Don't you worry? >>So here we are wrapping up 10th annual at reinvent. You were an Amazonian. So you've been to many of these, obviously the first one in two years, there's nothing like the conversations that are going on behind it. There's nothing like an in-person interview to have a really a conversation about the technology. What are some of the things that have you heard at the conference that excite you going into 2022? >>My excitement going in is the focus that everybody's putting just beyond what's next beyond data like the AI, right? The AI perspective of everything, the way that AWS is evolving their data story, lots of serverless spoken by Adam in the first day. And I think there's really, really big things coming. You see the three big clouds competing and making each other better and better. You see vendors like size sense working cross-cloud because everybody has something best in class. And so I am one very excited to be in person and to be shaking hands and hugging friends that I have not seen except over zoom in two years. But I'm really excited for the direction. Particularly AWS is taking the data ecosystem inside sense plans to be a core part of that. >>Awesome. It's exciting. The amount of innovation that has gone on is we think, you know, the next 10 years is we're going to see far more in the next, probably five than we did in the previous 10. Actually. Thank you so much for joining us, talking to us about science. We'll have to, we'll have to think about that. Well, when we get our Fanny pack, so we can talk about science, how we're using it, but awesome. To be able to bring analytics to everyone so that it is invisible, usable, and we can actually extract value from data in real time. Thank you for >>Having me today. Our >>Pleasure for Dave Nicholson. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube, the global leader in live tech coverage.

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to Las Vegas Lisa Martin live here with David Nicholson. We're at AWS reinvent 2021, this an outstanding event. There's a lot of people here, tens of thousands. And this is probably one of the most important and largest hybrid tech events that we're doing this year with AWS and its massive ecosystem of partners. We're going to be covering this two live sets, two remote studios, over 100 guests on the CUBE at this re-invent and David and I are pleased to welcome Giorgio Vanzini next the vice president and global head of partners and alliances at DXC, Georgia Welcome to the program. >> Thank you for having me. >> Talk to us about what's going on at DXC, what are you in AWS doing together with what's the scoop? >> Yes Well, some exciting things are happening between AWS and DXC, which is we're really focusing on our customers that we have especially in the banking and capital markets, but also automotive. And then also we were a launch partner today with the AWS mainframe modernization right, and so we're focusing on mainframes as well. So exciting spaces for us to go collaborate and work with AWS, for our customers. >> Talk to me about some of the things you know the last 22 months have been quite challenging, quite dynamic and we've seen such a massive acceleration to the cloud. What have you seen from your perspective? Are you seeing customers in every industry that have really figured we've got to do this now because if we don't, we're going to be out of business? >> Yes, you're absolutely correct. We've seen a dramatic acceleration of people wanting or customers wanting to move to the cloud public and private, and an acceleration of assistance that they were requesting from a global systems integrator. So what we've seen is you know, part of our clouds ride strategy that we have, really understanding what does the customer need from a strategy perspective, from a business value perspective and the technology perspective, and AWS has been a great partner with us to actually accommodate all of these kinds of things and the announcements that you had today, you know, just substantiate kind of that fact as well. >> Can you double click on the Cloud Right approach, talk to us about what that is, why it's important and what are some of the outcomes that it's helping customers to generate? >> Absolutely love to Cloud Right is really DXC's strategy to take the customers on the journey from the mainframe to the cloud, and to customize this because every customer is different. They have different requirements, different environments, different business strategies. So therefore the Cloud Right approach is really customizing it for the customer. What is the right business strategy? What is the right technology strategy? And then migrating them over into the cloud as well. Keeping in mind that again, customers are specific, industries are specific. You know, data requirements are different analytics are different, you know, government requirements are different. So you need to those in mind when you transition customers over into the cloud space. >> Right, from a data residency, data sovereignty and all of the different rules and regulations that are popping up that are kind of similar to GDPR for example, that's a big challenge, but one of the things too that's happening Giorgio is that every company to be competitive these days has to become a data company, right? There's no choice, you've got to be data-driven, you've got to have a data strategy at the core of the business, otherwise there's a competitor in the rear view mirror, who's ready to take your place. >> That is absolutely correct, and so that's part of our Cloud Right strategy is understanding what are the business requirements from the customer? Understanding their competitive edge and migrating them over. Because in many instances, to your point, they have huge reams of data, petabytes of information of data, but really making sense of it, so running the analytics on it and having the business insights. So helping the customers understand that, but then also understanding of like, what are the key business requirements that they have? Which applications to migrate and which not to migrate? >> So I'm curious, you mentioned that you're a launch partner for mainframe modernization. That's sort of one slice of and very important slice of some organization's business and migration strategy to cloud. I'm curious what the DXC blend is between standardized offerings and bespoke services and how you manage that? Do you have a thought about that? Wouldn't it be great to have small, medium and large and have people click on it? >> Yes here's a T-shirt for you, which size are you? Now I'm actually glad you asked me that question because that's exactly going to the core of the Cloud Right strategy, and the Cloud Right really means that it's like, which T-shirt size is correct for you? Right. This is the question that we just addressed which is it has to be bespoke because one size does not fit all. And so understanding the customer requirements of do we need to move the data to the cloud? Or do we move to need a subset to the cloud? Do we need to move part of the business applications and which ones and in which order? Right? And so that's why I think we bring something to the table in the AWS mainframe modernization, which is unique because we have an end to end kind of approach from a planning to implementation, to execution and running as well. So I think DEX is uniquely positioned with our Cloud Right strategy. >> One of the things AWS Giorgio talks about is not being custom but being purpose-built. Talk to me about kind of compare contrast that with bespoke solutions, industry specific, obviously customers have specificities. Do you see a difference there between purpose-built under bespoke or are they aligned from your perspective? >> Yes, I do agree that a to technology layers are definitely common layers, horizontal layers, right Where I think you have bespoken limitations on the business strategy and the business rules. And so you have to understand what business is the customer really in and how to implement the business rules into the technology stack as well, and bringing it all together. So while the technology I think goes horizontal to your point right, you know, compute and storage is the same. Wherever you go the bits are the same, however how they're utilized and how you use them for your customers and your interaction is completely different from customer to customer and industry to industry, as you guys know as well. >> You know, it can be, it can be really disheartening working in this space when you think of 475 different kinds of instances and how important it is to get that right for a customer and how much they don't care. Ultimately they don't want to hear about it, they don't want to know, but they want you to get it right, so that it doesn't matter. So it's this irony of all of the work that people have to do like at DXC to make those details not matter. Any thoughts on that? Do you, are you a dejected because of that at all? >> Well, that is part of the value that we bring, right? >> David: Sure. >> To your point, absolutely the customer doesn't care in quotes, right? Just make it work for us and run it smoothly. On the other hand, we're on the hook to make sure that all the different partners that we have, that we integrate including AWS, right. Run smoothly and coherent and are up, you know, 99.999% of the time obviously right. And so the customers do care about our you know, interaction with them as well while AWS is always there. >> One of the things that we talked about a little bit ago is every industry had to pivot right. Dramatically the last 22 months or so. And we've seen every industry cloud is no longer a nice to have We've got to be able to get there, but you mentioned a focus in banking, and I think automotive, I'd love to get your perspectives on what some of the things are the opportunities that DXC sees in those particular industries, as opportunities to modernize. >> Yes, we latched on to banking and automotive because those are ripe for transition and the customers are willing to take the steps there as well. It doesn't mean that other industries are not relevant like, you know, consumer or retail or you know, technology and, and manufacturing. However, especially in automotive I think we have a unique positioning where we have the majority of the OAMs car manufacturers worldwide as customers, and when you think about AWS, you think about the utilization of the information that comes back from telematics information and customization, right. Petabytes of information that comes back from every device, which is a car and what kind of service you can provide there. So it's an industry you know, we talked about Tesla early on as well, right It's an industry that ripe for software and software updates. very similar you see a lot of things happening in the banking capital market space, where they're moving you know their customer base into new spaces as well. Just think about all the NFTs, those are happening, all the FinTech that's happening, right. So the, the banking capital markets companies have to, you know, have an evolution going on right, and assisting them in this evolution is as part of our strategy. >> So you're responsible for global partnerships and alliances DXC would be considered a large global systems integrator. The world is obviously moving in the direction of cloud. We've got the three big players AWS, and the other two I can't think of their names while I'm sitting here in Vegas right now, how do you balance what you do with those, with a variety of providers, for customers, and are you going to market primarily as DXC with the DXC relationship with the customer? Or in support of those cloud vendors that have essentially technology that if left unimplemented is essentially worthless, right I mean you, you bridge the divide between the technology and the true value of the technology, but are you the primary seat holder at the customer table, or is AWS the primary seat holder? Or is it a little of both? Long-winded question I apologize but I think you understand what I'm saying. It's an interesting world that we live in now. >> It definitely is, and if I wouldn't know you better I would say it's a trick question, but in all seriousness, we really are customer driven just like AWS as well right so, we really are trying to do the right thing for the customer. Hence our Cloud Right strategy, where we don't have a cookie cutter approach or saying just go do the following five things and you're going to be fine. We really want to look at the customer and say, what is important to you? What is the timeframe you're looking at? What is the strategic imperative that you have? What data do you have to move? You know, what system do you have to leave behind? And then do the right thing for the customer literally right. And so in this instance, absolutely you know, in my role AWS plays a huge role as you know is one of our core hyper scaler partners, a very good partner, we love AWS. And so making sure that they're always going to be there as part of that infrastructure is part of our strategy. >> You mentioned, oh sorry Dave >> No, I was just saying it makes sense. >> It does make sense in terms of being customer first, we talk with AWS, you can't kind of have an interview with, with one of their folks without talking about that. We work backwards from the customer first. This customer obsession, it sounds like from a cultural perspective, there's pretty strong alignment there with DXC. >> Exactly right, so I think from that perspective we share the same DNA where we look first to the customer and then say okay, how do we deduct what is right for the customer and implement it that way right, Because in many instances as you know, you mentioned the, the two other hyper scaler that we don't talk about, customers usually don't have a single source kind of approach, right They usually have a dual approach. And so while we have to work with that, there's preferred vendors that we engage with, right. And so clearly AWS is one of our preferred vendors that we engage with. >> Can you share an example? I'd love to know a customer that's taken the Cloud Right approach applied really kind of in a textbook way that you think really shows the value of DXC. Any customers, but even by industry if you don't want to name them, come to mind that really show the value of that approach. >> Yeah, So we, we just concluded a major migration from one of our leading insurance companies, a global big company that you know is similar with my birthplace. But what we really did is a Cloud Right approach of migrating them from their legacy mainframe and virtualized systems that they had, to a cloud approach. And in the process of doing this you know, we reduced their overall operating expenses, their cap X expenses obviously but also reduced their overall budget about 30% reduction by moving them to the cloud. Again during the Cloud Right approach of understanding what exactly to move in, which timeframe and what to leave behind right, Because in many instances, customers don't have an exit strategy. They rush to the cloud, but then leave their you know old legacy behind and like oh, what are you going to do with this? And so you need to have a comprehensive end to end system strategy of like, what do you want to leave behind? When do you want to sunset it? And when do you want to migrate certain things over as well? >> That's got to be quite challenging for I would assume a legacy historied insurance company been around for a long time, lots of data, but culturally very different than the cloud mindset. >> You bring up one of those soft skills, right. Which is the cultural aspect of talking with the customers of how do we migrate you? It's not just, and that's why I said it's not just a business decision or a technology decision. In many instances, you affect people's life as well. When you think about old systems administrators that were working on mainframes. Now if you move everything to the clouds, they become obsolete. So rescaling the workforce and having a comprehensive plan is part of the soft skills right, Where you think more comprehensive about the customer, it's not just technology it's really is the full experience right At 360 what happens to the people? How do we migrate the people? But also setting expectations with top management, for example right of saying, how is this going to change our business? What new opportunities are going to be there? So those are all the soft kind of skills as well. >> One of the things that struck me this morning during the AWS keynote is just all of the innovation that that goes on. But AWS really is a flywheel of the customer and all the opportunities that their customers create for AWS, and the opportunities then that AWS technologies create for the customers across industries I just thought that I just kind of really felt that flywheel this morning when Adam was talking about all of the things that they're revealing, you must feel the same as a partner. >> I do, and I I'm a tech geek, so I'm totally excited about this, and it you know it feeds my soul because I can remember when, you know, when we first had analytics with you know Redshift rights and then customers are coming back and going like, well could we do something that is real time? Because we have requirements in this, and then CAFCA came out right, as a new service and I'm like okay, great right, and so we're really there to embrace you know, every new service that comes out from AWS. Which is fantastic, right I mean the speed and agility that comes out with AWS and we totally embraced that for our customers. >> Awesome, Georgia thank you for joining David and me today talking about what's going on with DXC, your partnership with AWS, Cloud Right, and how you're helping customers get Cloud Right. We appreciate your insights and your time. >> Thank you, I appreciate it too, thank you. >> All right. For David Nicholson, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube, the leader in global alive tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>>Okay, welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage here at AWS reinvent 2021, our annual conference here with the cube goes out the ground. We're in person live in person, also a hybrid event online as well. A lot of great content flowing day one in the books keynotes out there, big news wall-to-wall coverage I'm shot for a year. Hosts got a great segment here with AWS marketplace and revolution, how customers are buying and deploying their technologies, DB orbit, and GM radio's marketplace and control services. And Chris Casey, worldwide ed, a business development of data exchange for AWS gentlemen, welcome to the cube, John, >>Thanks for having us >>Pleasure to be here. So I'm a huge fan of the marketplace. People know that I believe that ultimately it's going to be automated at anyway, and that procurement and enterprises as they buy and as people work together and the big theme this year is kind of this whole purpose built stack, where SAS is going to be a lot of integrations where people are working together. You see multiple partners plugging in and snapping into AWS. That was a big part of Adam's keynote today. So this really kind of lays a perfect foundation for the path that you guys have been on, which is partnering, go to market buying and consuming technology. So what's the update. Give us a, uh, an overview high level, Steven of marketplace. >>Yeah, John. And again, thanks for having us. It's awesome to be here, meeting with customers and partners again for the first time in a couple of years, great to be meeting in person and interacting. So we're super excited about where we're going with the marketplace, as you all probably know, customers in every industry are really thinking about how they transform their business using modern technology. And it's not just about the technology that they're building themselves. It's also the tools that they want to get from their partners, which we're super excited to be able to offer them on marketplace. We're about to have our ten-year anniversary. We launched the first version of marketplace in April of 2012. And back then, you know, it was a very simple e-commerce website that builders could come and buy Amazon machine instances and pay by the hour running popular, open source package or operating system software, but we've come an awful long way since then and changed the surface area of the business quite a bit, um, from a product type perspective, we now offer, uh, our partners the opportunity to list and meter their SAS solutions. >>Um, adding to the army base, we allow partners to vend their container images, and we have some new updates I'll share with you in just a second on that this year in 2019 customers asked us for the same experience that they have buying software to apply to the way they licensed data. So we launched AWS data exchange in 2019, and then in 2020 last year, we, we, we recognize that customers wanted to be able to bundle professional services offerings and with the software that they buy. So we launched a professional services offering type two. And then when you start to combine that with all of the different procurement motions that we now support, it's no longer just the self-service e-commerce capabilities, but when customers want to privately negotiate deals with their vendors, they can do so with our private offer capability, which we were the first to launch in 2000, which we then complemented in 2018 with the ability for customers to negotiate with the channel partner, reseller a managed service provider of their choice. So when you start to combine all of these different product type offerings and ways, our partners can go to market through marketplace in an automated way with all of these procurement options. We now have 2000 sellers listing more than 12,000 offerings on the marketplace, which more than 325,000 customers around the world buy either directly from the seller or from the channel partner of their choice. And when you add all that up, we've seen this year alone, billions of products and services sold through the market. >>Wow. What a rocket ship from a catalog to a full-blown comprehensive consumption environment, which by the way, the market wants that fast speed, speed, time to market. Okay. So give me the update a year at reinvent. What announcement did you guys just announced that the partner summit this week? What's the, what's the news. Yeah. So there's a couple of, >>Um, we'll talk about one and then I'll hand it over to Chris to talk about the data exchange announcements. But the first announcement we made at the partner keynote yesterday was around our container offering. So in 2018, we launched the ability for partners to list container based offerings. So their software and containers, whether it be net app Druva, um, Palo Alto or others who are having their security or other software and containers that could then be deployed by customers into the AWS managed container environments. So that could be deployed into Amazon EKS, ECS, or AWS far gate, which is great for customers who run their container workloads and our managed services. But we have a lot of customers who run their own Kubernetes environments either on, um, on AWS, on premises or using another one of the, um, Kubernetes platforms that are out there like red hat open shift. >>So we're a lot of customers just said, I also want that third-party software to be easily deployable into my own Kubernetes environment. So we were super happy to announce on Monday what we call now, the AWS marketplace for containers anywhere, which allows our partners like Apollo Alto or a CrowdStrike or a Cisco to list containers on the marketplace that can be deployed into any Kubernetes environment that the customer is running, whether that be on, on AWS, on premises, into VM-ware Tansu red hat, OpenShift, rancher, um, or wherever they, wherever they're running their Kubernetes workloads. So that's super exciting. And then we have a couple of announcements on data exchange, ed that Chris talk about also >>The dictionary. I'm going to come back to the containers with some really important things I want to drill into. Go ahead. >>There's two pretty significant, which we believe at game-changing capabilities that we've recently announced with data exchange. The first one is AWS data exchange for API APIs, and really why this is quite significant is customers had told us that not a lot, not all of their data use cases were really geared towards them consuming full flat files, which is what we launched data exchange with in terms of a delivery capability two years ago. And so with AWS data exchange for APIs, customers can come and procure an API from a third party data provider and only procure the data that they need via an API request response. Um, what, why this is so significant is for data providers, they can bring their API APIs to AWS data exchange, make them really easily available for data subscribers to find and subscribe to. And then for data subscriber, they're interacting with that API in the same way that they're interacting with other AWS APIs and they can enjoy the same governance and control characteristics using services like I am in CloudTrail. >>Um, so that flexibility in a new delivery type is, is, is really meaningful for data subscribers. The second, uh, announcement that we we really went into yesterday was the preview of Amazon data exchange for Amazon Redshift. And this capability gives customers, um, data subscribers, the ability to access data in the data warehouse supported by Amazon Redshift. And the unique aspect about this is the data subscriber. Doesn't actually have to copy the data out of Amazon Redshift if they don't want to, they can query the data directly. And what's really meaningful for them. There is they know that they're actually querying the latest data that the data provider has because they're actually querying the same data warehouse table that the data provider is publishing into data. Providers really love this, especially those ones, those data providers that were already using Amazon Redshift to store their data, because now they don't have to manage the entitlements and subscription aspects of really making their data available to as many of their data consumers as possible. >>So basically what you're saying is it makes it easier for them to keep an update. They don't have to worry about merchandising that service. They just have API APIs rolled in and the other one is for developers to actually integrate new API APIs into their role and whatever services they're building. Is that right? >>Yeah. And it's, it's really the ultimate flexibility for a developer coming to AWS data exchange. If their use case warrants, them consuming a full dataset, you know, maybe they want to look at 10 years of stock history, you know, using file-based data delivery and immutable copies of those files through our S3 object, data sharing capabilities is fit for their use case. Um, but if they want to dynamically interact with data, AWS data exchange for API APIs is a brand new delivery capability that is really unlocking. And we hope we're really excited to see the innovation >>It's like you're bringing the API economy even further to the customer base on the third party. The question I have for both of you guys on the containers and the API is security because, you know, we've seen with containers, approved containers, being vetted, making sure that they're not going to have any malware in there or API is making sure everything's clean and tight. What's the, what are they? What's the security concerns. Can you share how you guys are talking about that? For sure. >>So it's probably comes as no surprise to you or folks who might be listening or tuning in that security has always been AWS is number one priority. We build it into everything we do. This offering is no different. We scan all of the container images that are published to our catalog before they're exposed to customers for any kind of known vulnerabilities. We're monitoring our catalog every single day now against new ones that might come out and customers actually tell us, it's one of the things that they like about buying software on marketplace, better than let's say other third party repositories that don't have the same level of vetting because they can kind of build that constant trust, um, into, >>And trust is a key cause you can get containers anywhere. You don't know where it's from. So you guys are actually vetting the containers, making sure they're certified. So to speak with Amazon's security check. >>We, we, we are indeed. And, uh, we have a number of security ISV who are participating in both our containers in our containers anywhere. It's one of the most high-performing categories for us. As I said before, we have vendors like CrowdStrike and Cisco and Palo Alto who are, you know, um, um, vending, various different endpoint and network security, um, uh, offerings >>It's my catalogs are for, I mean, this is what trust is all about. Making sure that you guys can put your name behind it in the marketplace. Okay. Let's take it through the consumption. What's the current state of the art with the marketplace with enterprises, you guys have a lot of programs. We're constantly hearing great things about the go to market with joint selling on the top tier. Uh, I think there's like the top tier category. And then you've got all kinds of other incentives for companies to deploy the marketplace and sell their stuff, >>Right? So we're, we're really starting to hit our stride with, uh, co-selling with our partners and some of our, um, you know, our top, most performing partners, they into every feature and capability and incentive program that we develop. Um, give us a lot of feedback on it. Just like we work backwards from customer needs to help them transform their procurement. We work backwards from our partner needs to help them optimize their go to market channel. And, uh, you know, we take feedback from our partners, uh, very seriously. And then we build things like private offers when they want to custom negotiate deals with their customers or channel partner, private offers when they want to do that with the channel partner of their choice. And we're just continuing to listen to that feedback and, and helping them grow their business. And, and, and frankly, you know, while a lot of partners love that we're able to help get them new customers. One of their favorite things about co-selling with us is that they're able to close larger contracts faster because they're doing that in concert with the AWS field teams and taking advantage of the fact that the customer's already building on AWS. >>So I know we've got a couple minutes left. I want to get this out there because I heard it I'd have to add him prior to re-invent. And he said, quote, we don't want, cus customers don't want to reinvent the wheel. And they see, that's why this whole purpose built kind of thing is getting traction. What do you guys got in the marketplace? That's what you'd call leveraging stuff has been built. So customers don't have to rebuild things. >>Yeah. I mean, if you just look back to the very beginning of marketplace, when we launched the marketplace of Amazon machine instances, it was basically pre-built armies that customers could deploy into their own accounts already running the third-party software that they wanted. And when I think about where we're going with things like procurement governance, uh, we developed a thing called a private marketplace where customers could curate the various different solutions from our catalog that they want, because they want to be able to control who in their enterprise can buy what, and that's just a whole bunch of manual work that they would have had to do and reinvent the wheel from every customer to every customer. And instead we just delivered them the capability to do that same with our managed entitlements capability, where they can share entitlements across AWS accounts, within their own organizational, without having to manually track who's used how much of what, and report that back to the seller to make sure that they're compliant with the terms and conditions. We handle all that. So our customers don't have to continue to reinvent that. >>Why? Well, because it's like open source concept. It's like you're building on things that are already built. You can build on top of it. As you guys see these recipes get, or workflows get rolled out, you put them back in the microwave. >>That's right. Always learning from customers and partners. And while we've grown quite a bit, 2000 sellers, 325,000 customers and billions of dollars of products and services sold, we still have so much more to go >>Between data exchange and what you guys got going on. It's not, it's not, it's complex as it gets more and more complex. I know you guys are abstracting away the complexity and the heavy lifting for customers. What's on the horizon for you guys. What are you tackling next? What's the next mountain you're going to climb on. >>There's still more automation we can drive into the co-selling motion. And, uh, um, uh, so that's one, there's more procurement and governance, uh, capabilities that we think we're going to be able to add to customers. Basically what they're telling us is are the chief procurement officers that we face off with. They want to be able to get the best deal at the lowest price, uh, with the best and most favorable terms and conditions. So we're trying to work backwards from that need to make sure we have the right category selection, wherever they might want it, whether it be an infrastructure provider or a line of business, um, uh, a line of business solution and make sure they're able to get exactly that >>Chris, back to you for your vision. I honestly, analytics is a big part of SAS and platform billing and metering and where the data is. Data exchange. Almost imagine that's going to have a nice headroom to it in terms of what you can do with data exchange. Yeah. >>If you look at the announcements we've recently made and sort of our vision for data exchanges to help any AWS customer find subscribe to and use third party data in the cloud. And these two recent announcements really help on that use portion where someone can actually create, you know, shorten the time to value for them using some of our analytics services like Amazon Redshift. So we'll continue to innovate there and listen to customers in terms of their feedback and how we can help them really integrate their data pipelines with the rest of the AWS ecosystem. But we're also continuing to invest in the find and subscribe to portion. Steven talked about some of the automation and we've built data exchange on top of the lot of the plumbing and building blocks that AWS marketplace already had, which was a pretty significant leg up for us, but certainly the way in which people discover and find new datasets that might help them in an analytics problem is certainly an area that, you know, we're going to continue to lean into. >>And exchange has been around for a long, long time. Now it's in the cloud generation and I think you guys have such a great job in the marketplace and this next gen has more and more platform. Specific products are coming out. Partners are snapping together, a lot more integration. So a lot more action coming on integration I can imagine. Right. That's right. Definitely. Right. Thanks for coming on the cube. Really appreciate it, Steve. A great to see you. >>Appreciate it. Thanks for having us always a pleasure. >>Great to have all the action from Amazon here, marketplace continuing to be the preferred way to consume and deploy technology, and soon to be an integration hub for this next generation cloud. I'm Jeff, where to keep your watching the queue of the leader in worldwide tech coverage. Be right back.

>>Hello and welcome back to the cube in person at an event AWS reinvent 2021. We're here live with two sets. Also virtual we've watched the cube on the site. Virtual sits a hybrid event. I'm John for your host of the cube. We're here for three days. Wall-to-wall covered chicken off day one. All about software. ISV is also the value of the cloud. We've got two great guests, John Grosse and senior vice president, chief revenue officer Prisma, cloud of Palo Alto networks. Welcome to the cube. >>Thank you for having me excited to be here. >>Three to Joseph's general manager technology partners from AWS. Thanks for coming on again. Good to see you. So obviously the story here at re-invent is Adam Lesley, new CEO taking over Andy Jassy, uh, tomorrow's a big keynote. We're expecting to hear that the cloud is kind of going next gen. The next gen cloud is here. It's about applications, modern applications and true infrastructure as code security is code data as code essentially, applications are now the number one priority. This is a big thing. This is part of the movement of the cloud. So I got to get your guys' perspectives. Where are we in that movement? What are customers doing as they migrate to the cloud? It's not just lift and shift. They're like, okay, I got to rearchitect my business. Big things are happening. What do you guys see? >>Well, I think there's a couple of big drivers at the highest level, right? Some customers are thinking about migrating their it estate to the cloud. They want to take cost out. They want to drive agility. They want to drive a better user experience and you have other customers that want to innovate, right? They want to drive innovation that leverage the cloud for innovation and increase their speed of execution. And as they look at that opportunity, they're having to rethink dev ops and which is making them also think more about DevSecOps and how are they going to accelerate that cloud application life cycle so they can take advantage of microservices. And in addition to that, as we look back on the last two years, as we were talking about before we came on the air and this unfortunate pandemic era that will maybe refer to it, as many customers have been thinking about their supply chains, you know, what am I going to do with my supply chain? How do I really take problems out of that supply chain? So I can continue to serve my customers in my markets. And it's also made them think about different ways to approach their customers. How do they reach their customers? And then how do they fulfill bill and continue to nurture those customer relationships? So I think it goes to the big drivers >>And the, and the security aspect is so huge. You guys have Palo Alto networks? No, that's just give us a perspective and reaction to that. As people digitize their business, you get security built in from day one. This is the number one thing we talk about on the cube bit, baking it in from day one, whether they say shifting left, whatever sure. It's your business, you're now digital. Yeah. >>What are the things that we think we bring to CEO's and CIS is into boards is really three different ways to get started with cloud native security. With Prisma cloud, you can start at the simplest of terms with posture management. I just want to inventory my assets and know what I have out there and make sure those are secure. I want to be compliant. We want to deliver on compliance and governance for my board, my leadership team, others are thinking about workload protection, Kubernetes, serverless containers. What am I going to do with those critical workloads that I'm now moving to the cloud? And then to your point, big push area is shifting security left. I've got to build security in right from the start of that application development life cycle change the way I think about CIC D and delivering those applications securely in the cloud and doing a fast now time to market on applications is critical for customers. And they've got to think about building security. And so they don't have to rework those apps and build security and later. >>So let's talk about what you guys have been doing with customers during the pandemic and how they're going to come out of it with a growth strategy. We had some great talks on our cube program around how the software development life cycle is changing, how modern applications are being built. And I'll see Amazon, you guys enable people to make money on top of Amazon because you make money too. But how are you guys helping customers? What's the big thing that come out of the pandemic. >>Yeah, so, well, the pandemic has been unfortunate for all of humanity, but through this, we have really seen customers accelerating their journey into AWS and security is top of mind for them as customers continue to digitize their software, they are really looking for solutions from Palo Alto networks on AWS. And what they're looking for is something very simple and cost-effective which Palo Alto has provided because of our long-term partnership. And as John mentioned, right due to the pandemic and many other factors around it, there have been many constraints placed on the supply chain, but the economies of scale with AWS has really helped partners and customers address many of these constraints. So we have seen a tremendous movement into AWS the last 20 months. >>And how, how has the partnership for Palo Alto networks been for you guys? Because I wrote in my article, I just posted last night around the preview of this event in my interview that has Leschi is that cloud is enabling the partners Amazon's cloud is enabling partners to do more than be a point solution. And that we're talking about a platform, not tools. I mean, this tools tools are great, but this notion of super clouds are developing where partners are leveraging more than just hosting, right? >>What's your partnerships always start and end with customers. So one of the things we're most excited about from a first of a cloud perspective is we now have over 800 calmly customers that are utilizing Prisma cloud is secure workloads and to secure their security posture management and shift security left using Prisma cloud on AWS. And the other, a couple of big ingredients that we've had together is really multi-dimensional partnership that makes that all possible, right? We're an advanced technology partner. We have a number of programs that we run together, and we've also been a part of a handful of product launches and innovation launches that we're super excited about, like what we've done with guard duty, like what we've also done with auto provisioning using control tower. So multi-dimensional partnership, which is always the best we think starts with customers. And then from there, what we've done is we've taken a really intentional programmatic approach as we think about innovation programs and go to market together. Yeah. >>Follow up on the, you know, mind, you guys have been very successful at Palo Alto networks as your customer base, the more, more sophisticated and smarter around cloud, you got to add more value and be responsive. What is the big trend in your customer base? You see with cloud? Are they obviously keeping stuff on, on premises for certain things, obviously security reasons, but also data's got to open up. So now you have a more of a bigger data aperture. >>Absolutely. Absolutely. And what's happening is what should happen, which is customers are asking us to do more and innovate faster. And so, you know, we're really excited about our recent launch at Prisma cloud 3.0 where it really expanded the platform. Uh, we're now bringing an adoption adviser, which is going to simplify the experience for our mutual customers so that they can more readily adopt CSPs CWPP and extend their utilization of the platform. At the same time, we've made a number of announcements about adding more value into our infrastructure as code approach, you know, shifting security left. So very excited about that. And, and so I think that, you know, what we're finding is that we're needing to listen to customers and quickly build and deliver, uh, innovation in the cloud is they're all trying to your point new use cases and stretching their needs for cloud security. >>I got to say one of my observations of the past two and a half years, even coming into the pandemic was security clearly being baked in from the beginning, but the pandemic really exposed those who were ready for it. Yeah. And that, and that's a big point. And now it's like dev sec ops, no one argues about it anymore. Right. It is what it is. Right. That's a huge difference from just five years ago. >>Absolutely true. Absolutely true. And now, you know, as you're seeing, you know, partnering with AWS customers are delivering actually their end product in the cloud. Right. And that is the most critical relationship is their customer's customer. And they've got to make sure that it absolutely is a secure user experience because now we're talking about customers, identity payment information, we're talking about critical customer relationship management now all in the cloud. And it has to be secured end to end. So very exciting opportunities. >>I mean, uh, you're under a lot of pressure. Now you have a lot of these big partners doing big business. They have big customers. I know they do. Palo Alto has a lot of great customers. How do you support them? What are you guys doing to continue to nurture and support your customers? >>Yeah. Customers is the key word there, John. So we provide value to Palo Alto and other partners to a number of different ways. But one approach that we take is called a well-architected review. It's a process which looks at the software solutions through pillars of security, reliability, performance, cost optimization, and operational excellence. And the reason for that is we want to make sure that the foundation for customers is laid in the best way possible. Because once you have that foundation laid, you can really, really build and scale your business. And so that is one of the ways we continue to provide value and Palo Alto we've taken the well-architected review through all of their solutions, bought the ones existing and the ones in the future. >>I got to say, I've noticed you guys have been using the word primitives a lot. Now it's foundational services. Um, because what we're talking about here is foundation. And a lot of the trends we're seeing from your customers, both is they want to refactor their business value in the cloud, the modern application trend, isn't just apps is about business model innovation in the software itself. So it's asking the infrastructure to be code, ask you to be programmable security with automation, all that AI, this is a trend. Do you guys agree with that? Yeah, >>I absolutely. I do. And I think what you're seeing now from customer's point of view is they need to build security into that application lifecycle mental model. They have to have an end-to-end vision of how they're going to deliver those, those applications at speed and do it, you know, utilizing cloud native architecture so that they can have microservices that deliver value in they're more flexible. And that's part of the power. I think of AWS and Palo Alto networks. First of all, cloud is we're enabling customers to innovate at speed shift left with security, build security into those apps, take rework out, deliver applications faster, which obviously drives more value to them. >>Yeah. I'd love to get your thoughts on something, John, if you don't mind, while you're here, we were talking about for reinvented around major inflection points and every major inflection point in the history of the tech industry, whenever there's a change of how people develop applications, speed and performance was super important. Critical. How do you guys see that? Cause you guys are on the front lines with security performance matters. Now whether it's in the cloud or in transit, what's your >>Absolutely absolutely. You know, it was really interesting in customer conversations. Even some of the customer conversations I've had today, every customer now starts a conversation with some element of cloud security, security, posture management, workload protection, identity data, but they all are coming back now to shifting left with security. It's part of every single conversation. Yes. I was primarily leaders into posture management. Oh, by the way, absolutely got to dive into how I'm going to shift left and build security in. And so that speed of development now I think is going to be a key competitive differentiator for customers. They're going to have to become experts at delivering on that entire application pipeline. >>But your reaction to that speeds and feeds >>Well, it is, I believe it's really important. And um, we're trying to do everything that we can help partners like Palo Alto network with our processes. And most importantly, scaling the business, which I'm sure we'll talk about shortly, how we work together to really get those 800 customers >>Talking about that. Cause you have the advanced technology partnership program. Talk about what you guys do there. >>Yeah. So first of all, I want to thank John and the entire Palo Alto team for building such an excellent partnership across build co-sale and co-market. And as an advanced technology partner, Palo Alto is part of four different competencies, security containers, DevOps networking. And the reason why these competencies are so crucial is because you're able to list your validated solutions with public customer references by use case in each of these competencies, which I think John, you would agree enables them, asked to do focus, demand generation activities through dev days, blog posts, webinars, account mapping, which of course generates those opportunities together. And Palo Alto is also part of our ISB accelerate program. So our sales team is in incented in order to work with Palo Alto and help them close opportunities. And then also you are on AWS marketplace, which enables you to do free trials and enabling you to really scale across the globe. And then we are also helping Palo Alto across the globe with resources, including public sector to help them scale their business. >>The whole selling thing is interesting as the chief revenue officer, it's like, oh yeah, I love that. Um, this is a big deal. Talk about that further. I know the marketplace is where people are buying, but it's a joint sales, Amazon salespeople sell for you, right? >>Cosa, we call it co-sale whereby we can share opportunities with each other. And when we do share those opportunities, the sales teams are engaging together to understand, Hey, what's going on at the customer? What are the pain points? What are the use cases, value proposition, and then going in together to the customer to win the deal. And then continuing that relationship beyond to continue to grow net new revenue, >>Not too shabby, is it, oh yeah. Get more feet on the street. So to speak and virtual, >>There you go. It works on both dimensions and to all the points you made. I mean, we have some terrific mechanisms we use together, you know, like immersion days, dev days where we're able to work with customers, deliver well-architected visions for our customers together. And when we were both designed in, it's obviously a great, it's a great win for the customer enables us to scale. >>I think it's a cutting and not everyone gets these services to, you have to be a certain lay level to get the joint selling. >>That is correct. That's an advanced technology partner and also as part of ISB accelerate, which is our very focused Cosell program. Awesome. >>Well, thanks so much for coming on the cube. Really appreciate. Congratulations on a great partnership. Uh, two great brands. Congratulations, final minute. Just what's your expectation. As we come out of this pandemic, what do you see customers doing? What's the one thing that all customers are preparing for coming out of the pandemic? What do you guys see? >>Well, I think now customers are preparing for acceleration in all of their routes to market. Right now they're having to anticipate their return to some of the normal routes to market that they've for some time now have been trying to reinvent around and trying to drive primarily digital, go to market. Now I think we're going to see growth on every dimension with our customers, because they're going to need to return to some kind of normal with their supply chains, delivering through brick and mortar and their traditional delivery models on top of driving hyper growth that they're already enjoying through their digital go-to-market. >>That's great insight. So, you know, your, your thoughts on companies coming out of the pandemic, looking for a growth strategy, what's the, >>Well, I think they're going to prepare in order to address this pandemic in the future, Some calamity of some way. Right. But I do think that what I'm observing personally, especially segments that have been slower to adopt because they wanted evidence. The pandemic has really increased that whether that's vaccine research or treatment research, it has really accelerated that. So I agree with John B going to >>See it all across the board. I mean, one thing I'd say just support those two awesome insights is that the pandemic expose what works and what doesn't work. Right. You can't hide the ball anymore. You know, if, if software's being used, it's successful. If not, as self-aware right. You can't hide the ball cloud. If it's not working, you know what right away. Yeah. Thanks so much for coming on the Cape. Really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Okay. Cube coverage here at reinvent live 2021. I'm John for your host of the cube. Stay with us wall to wall coverage for the next four days here in the queue.

>>Hi, everyone. Welcome to the cubes coverage of Avis reinvent 2021 we're onsite in person. It's a virtual event, also hybrid events. I'm Jennifer and my host, David Dante ninth year, Dave, we've been doing Avis reinvent the cube and it's 11th season. We've seen a lot. Yeah, I'll say. >>And the show is pretty packed, John. I mean, I think it's surprised some folks over 25,000 people here. I mean, obviously a lot of sponsors, but >>Customers to a bad event for AWS in terms of attendance is like record-breaking for any other company, people are standing in line for sessions. It's definitely happening. People are here to learn. They're not just all employees. So definitely a successful event in person as well in the live stream. But so much news to talk about. Andy Jassy is now the CEO of Amazon. That's the top story Adam's Lipsky's taking over as CEO of AWS time, Amazonian who left Amazon to take the CEO job of Tableau sold that company to Salesforce under mark Benioff. Now back to take the helm from Andy Jassy and quite the pressure cooker here as he takes the stage, a lot of people are asking, is will he do well? Will he fumble on stage? Will he do the right things? And does he have what it takes to take the cloud to the next generation with AWS as their number one clear far and away, then the second competitor in Microsoft and then a look distant third and Google. So Amazon's are under a ton of competitive pressure. At least from an industry standpoint, everyone's still trying to catch up. It's the same theme, Dave, every year Amazon is out front and the lead just gets extended and extended. And again, here, no exception. Well, the Uber >>Of course there's you mentioned is Andy Jassy is now taking over a CEO of Amazon. And you know, history would suggest that a lot of times that companies falter when there's a CEO transition, but it feels like it's different this time. Andy Jassy was here since the beginning launched AWS versus a profit engine of Amazon brought back Adam sill Lipski who has a deep understand. He's not as technical as Andy, but obviously as a deep understanding of the business, yeah, he was comfortable up in the keynote. It wasn't John, a typical firehose of announcements. Even those, a lot of announcements, they didn't shove them down our throat and they didn't in the analyst session as well. Usually in the analyst session, it's hours and hours and hours of firehose Kool-Aid injection, not this year. Why do you think that is, is that a COVID thing? Is that a change in now? >>I think Adam's Leschi wants to be his own guy. As, as leader here, a lot of things were eliminated from the keynote that Andy Jasmine did, for instance, Andy Jesse loves music. So we always had the music walk up music like you see in sports, uh, which is very cool. That's an Andy Jassy kind of tweak. Andy is all about announcements and he was just, uh, pushing the envelope. Adam was much more laid back. He sees, I think, more of a holistic picture being more of an app guy being more of a data guy, less of a, I would say under the covers nerd like Jassy was, Andy was very deep on, on a lot of the tech stuff as is Adam. But I think Andy a little bit more proactive on that. So Adam was very much more about the impact of 80 of us culturally, as a society, as a company and kind of brought in this kind of think different apple vibe, which is, you know, the people who are Pathfinders, um, as he takes that Jassy kind of, um, approach of leaders, but be a builder, be a change agent, be a game changer. >>Adam took it to another level by saying, Hey, it's okay to be a Pathfinder because it's net new disruption with the cloud. And I think that's the story that I see coming out of this where, uh, in talking to Adam one-on-one Amazon absolutely has a secret weapon in it's chips, custom Silicon. They're absolutely crushing it with how they're thinking about SAS and platforms and they have a huge ecosystem. And I think at the end of the day, and we talked about this in our story on Silicon angle, Amazon could actually wipe out Microsoft. And I think Microsoft's core competitive advantage has always been their ecosystem and their developers. I think right now in the next few years, if Microsoft doesn't match Amazon, they will be decimated anyway, you know? >>Yeah, hold on. Okay. Amazon's not going to wipe out Microsoft. Microsoft has too much of a cash cow. Look at the hanging on to windows. Couldn't, you know, the mistake and missing mobile event initially missing the cloud. Didn't wipe out Microsoft. So they've just got too much of a software cashflow. That's not gonna happen maybe a little bit over the top. >>I thought, but Microsoft has done a great job and it's not going to tell it to kind of stay in the game and do more. But if you look at the major inflection points, Dave where's digital equipment corporation, where's prime computer. Well, >>I think this is the point is again, history would show that those companies, when they handed the reigns over to a new CEO failed, they faltered, it was self-inflicted wounds. It almost happened. You thought it would happen with Microsoft, whether it became irrelevant under bomber, but when Nadella came in, he reinvigorated because specifically they had the cashflow to be able to do that. Now. So the big question is, okay, w what's going to happen. We ran a survey to our community to see what could disrupt Amazon. You know, that the us government wants to break them apart or wants to regulate them. But our survey respondents said there's a 60% plus probability that Amazon will be disrupted by other factors. And that's what I was self-inflicted wound that's Jesse's that's right. And that's, Jessie's big challenge is how to not make those disruptions, how to fight those disruptions. >>The number one, uh, reason why they could be disrupted was self-inflicted wounds, which again, history would show what happened. But one of the things we talked about is that normally happens when companies stop innovating when they rest on their laurels. Right. And you kind of saw that with those companies that you mentioned, but you mentioned their secret weapon. We wrote about that in our article, the chips. So we heard no secret. Everybody knew graviton three was coming, right? And so that is Amazon secret up. And you know, I've been thinking about this. John Amazon makes a lot of money on x86 instances that they've deployed years ago and they charge a lot for, I was wondering, you know, is the, or the old X 86 instances actually more profitable than graviton, maybe at this point in time, but long-term graviton. They control their own destiny because they control the hardware and software stack. And I bet you allows them to get better negotiating leverage with >>M D and it's of course, I mean, pat, Kelsey, we should talk about this all the time, but as bad as Jason Intel, you, if you're not out in the next wave, your driftwood, I think Intel and AMD and others, they have purpose-built general purpose chips. They're probably going to be for the lift and shift stuff when you, but if you're actually seriously writing software as an owner on the cloud, and you want specific advantages of speed and performance, you're going to want the custom Silicon that's purpose-built for your application and write code to that stack. So, so I think there's a whole nother level of platform as a service. Dave, that's kind of coming out of this re-invent that I think could be a multi generational trend, which is, Hey, the cloud is of super cloud or platform. Look at the riser, snowflake and Databricks. Those guys are on Amazon. Like they're super clouds in and of themselves they're platforms. They're not appoint SAS solution. I think Microsoft in my, my analysis is, yeah, they got office 365, okay. Word processing stuff. But what other SAS apps do they have besides SQL server and other things that are actually being built on there? And if, if I'm a developer you're going to want to go to the platform. That's the highest performance for office 365. It's a cash cow. But how long is that going to last >>A long time? I mean, major momentum. We argue about that later, but I wanna, I want to touch on graviton three because I think that was the big announcement of the day 25% faster than graviton to at least twice the floating point performance twice the crypto graphic performance in three times for machine learning, learning workloads, and very importantly, 60% less power. So at Amazon scale, uh, Adam said this in our meeting, he said, the economics really favor us because of our scale. And so, and they've also announced new training them instances and, and, and what, what having custom Silicon allows Amazon to do is release on a much, much faster cadence than traditional x86. And they could do, and they could do really cool things. Nitro is there, Nick they're smart NEC, which it says the basis, their new hypervisor, if you will. So it allows them to bring in x86, uh, Nvidia NPUs some of their own or Nvidia GPU, some of their own Silicon. So optionality is really the key there. You heard them announce, uh, an SAP instance. So that's a memory intensive instance. They can dial things up, dial things down. They've got full control of the stack. And by the way, copying them Google's copy of Microsoft is copying them. And who's leading this charge in custom Silicon, AWS, obviously Tesla, apple. I mean, these are leading companies that I don't think they all got it wrong. I think >>The Silicon angle is to have your own custom Silicon. And that's the, that is the clearly the advantage as it's vertically integrated. But the other thing that's coming out of this reinvents, the purpose built software concept where, you know, they're not copying Microsoft playbook as the wall street journal was saying, and some are saying Microsoft copying Amazon, Amazon has always been this horizontally scalable resource that's cloud, but with machine learning and AI, you now have this purpose-built kind of capability from software into the app itself where data has to be addressable. And I think the people in the data business kind of know this, but as the rest of the world comes out, architecturally having that horizontal observation space and data that's vertically tied to machine learning is a huge architectural shift. This is a complete rethinking of how software is built and that's going to be a game changer. I think Amazon's well out on front of that. And I think that's going to be a huge architectural shift. >>Well, let's quantify this a little bit because you know, you're, you're making the point that Amazon is the number one cloud, which I would agree with. We're talking here about IAS infrastructure as a service in the past layer that sits on top of that. Microsoft defines the cloud is we'll put in an office 365, Google we'll put in its Google apps, Amazon pure infrastructure as a service. And if you just look at that space, that's about $120 billion business. When you add up AWS, Azure, Alibaba and GCP, which I would contend are the only four hyperscalers out there. I don't include Oracle as a hyperscale. I don't include IBM. I get a lot of crap for that sometimes. Yeah, but we're talking big scaler, $120 billion. So actually relatively small compared to the trillion dollar opportunity that they have, but it's growing at 35% a year. Amazon will do more than 60 billion this year, 62 billion, just to quantify it in that ISS space. Microsoft will be about 38, 30 9 billion. Okay. So pretty substantial. Those two are far ahead of the others. Everybody else's, you know, Google is still in, you know, under 10 billion, Alibaba is right around there. So those two, it's really a two horse race. And I asked Microsoft using its software estate. Amazon's gotta be the innovator and has to have the best cloud to win. And it does well >>Also a platform. Let's go back to the little history lesson for the younger folks out there. When Microsoft was had a monopoly, they had windows operating system, which has had DAS under the covers, but windows was the operating system. And office was a suite of applications. They encourage software developers to build on top of windows and they had other servers off SQL server all came out of that small history. So their bread and butter was to have developers build on top of windows. Hence the monopoly, of course they had the application and the system software, hence the monopoly, hence the Microsoft breakup by the government in 1997. Now today cloud is essentially one big kind of PC concept. It's like windows, it's windows equivalent. So cloud is essentially an environment platform that has apps that run on top of it. Okay. In that world, Amazon by far is the number one windows model at Amazon's. >>I mean, Microsoft is used to is okay, I got Azure and I got office 365 that keeps them in business that keeps them from losing. So it's a placeholder. So that what I'm looking at is what is Amazon? I mean, Amazon versus Azure, doing relative to ISV and uptake for developers. And I'm suggesting that this trend of Amazon will go, if it goes uncontested by Azure, they'll wipe the table on ISV and suffer developers. If you're an owner of a software, you're not gonna write software, that's gonna be sub-optimized for a platform. That's not going to be before, >>Unless you're, unless you're a Microsoft developer, nearly all.net days. And there are a lot of those. And that's what, that's what Microsoft is doing. They're they're, they're, they've, they've shifted to cloud, they've gone everything into cloud. So Azure is their platform for innovation and acceleration. >>So those developers are going to build a sub application versus going over here on AWS. >>Well, that's the, that's the story with Microsoft. Good enough. I know >>Again, this is we're speculating, but we're going to watch that, but that is, to me, will be the battlefield of what will determine Azure versus AWS. And I think everything else is smoke and mirrors Amazon Webster way ahead of Azure, but the TeleSign is going to be does 80 bus attract those developers on their cloud with the custom Silicon, with the integrated stack and with the purpose-built software. I mean, it's looking really good. I think they've got a really compelling story. >>I think it's less about Azure versus AWS. I mean, that's an interesting storyline and I love to talk about it, but I think they'll go back to 120 billion out of 4 trillion. That's really the, the larger opportunity for, for both Microsoft and AWS to continue to grow. Because you look at, you look at Dell with apex, you look at HPE with GreenLake, Lenovo, Cisco, they've all got their own clouds. One of the things that didn't get into our article, but Adam Lipski when, when you asked him about hybrid is that hybrid cloud. When we were talking about some of the stuff they're doing, he S he said, look, that's not cloud what those guys are doing. That's not what we did. And he talked today about edge has to be AWS, not like AWS. That was the quote to use. Talk about, you know, private 5g, bringing out posts. And he gave some examples of that. The point is they, AWS is bringing its system, its architecture to the edge it's programming model infrastructure as code to the edge. Now, Kubernetes, Kubernetes does moderate that a little bit, but his point was, that's not AWS. That's not the cloud. >>Yeah. I think in summary, Dave had to wrap up what's the big trend this week is that Amazon web services is a, is a heaven environment for a developer, for the elite people who want to roll their own for the folks in it. In these other environments, you can have prefabricated purpose-built software platform to build on top of. And I think that isn't going to address the whole ease of ease of rollout. So if I'm a SAS developer, I don't, I want, I don't want to rebuild that over again. I don't want to roll my own. I'll take what you got and connects a good example. If you want to call shedder, you can take it and use it and then build on top of it and iterate on it. So I think it's more of here's a platform for you and take it. So I think that to me is the big story and that's not and think about it. How many people out there, a role in their own Amazon, you've got to be pretty strong at Amazon, uh, familiar ups to roll your own gut >>Of other quick points that he barely emphasized the primitives, the API APIs, that multiple databases, right tool for the right job, took a shot at Oracle without mentioning Oracle because they had sort of one database, but I will say this is mission critical. Oracle still owns that. Uh, they talked about a mainframe migration, tooling and runtime from mainframe compatible runtime. That's going to allow them to nip at the edges of those mainframe workloads and Oracle workloads. It, they're not going to get to the core anytime soon. They also talked about role level and cell level security. We think that's the squirrel acquisition from years ago. And then he made a statement. We have three X with Redshift price performance better than any cloud data warehouse sort of interesting shot at, at, at, at a snowflake and Databricks Databricks. So, um, anyway, yeah, >>I mean, I think, I think overall, I thought Adam did a good job. I think he didn't, uh, he didn't disappoint. Okay. But that's comfortable. I think his goal was to get through this and not have people go well, it's not Andy Jassy. I thought he did an awesome job and he did a good job. And he, he got, he got what he needed to do >>Comfortable. And he obviously leaned on some of his Pathfinder customers. NASDAQ, I thought was very impressive. United airlines dish. So, >>Okay. Cutie coverage, ninth year of the cube here at ADP reinvent, uh, 2021 is the cube. You're watching the leader in high-tech coverage. The cube.

(Music) >> Welcome to the AWS executive summit presented by Accenture at AWS reinvent 2021. I'm Lisa Martin, and I've got two Cube alum here with me, please welcome Merim Becirovic, Managing Director of Global IT Enterprise Architecture at Accenture and Chris Wegmann, Accenture, AWS Business Group technology and practices, Senior Managing Director, gentlemen, welcome back to the program. >> Thank you, Lisa, great to be back. >> Thank you, Lisa. Great to be here. >> It is nice to be back in a way right here we are at this hybrid event, but we want to talk about what Accenture is doing with its, with AWS to serving its clients. And then we're going to get into your own internal use case, drinking your own champagne. Chris go ahead and start with you, talk to us about what Accenture is doing with AWS to serve its clients. >> Yeah, Lisa, it's exciting, as you said to be back in this hybrid event and you know, for me, this will be my 10th re-invent and for Accenture we're in year 14 of our partnership with AWS and actually year six of our partnership called Accenture AWS business group. And you know, the focus over the last year has been helping our clients come out of the pandemic stronger than, than where they started. Right? And a lot of that has been around focusing our customers, getting past cloud migration, past cloud modernization, and getting further into what we now call the cloud continuum, starting to truly leverage all the AWS assets and capabilities and services to, to truly speed their transformation. You know, we work with a lot of our customers who are needing to transform even faster today than they were before the pandemic. And, you know, we're focused on helping those customers do that with AWS services. >> So Merim, let's bring you into the conversation. Now Accenture's internal IT organization has been leveraging AWS and public cloud for a while. Talk to me about that you completed the journey a couple of years ago, 95% in the cloud. Talk to me about what you're doing there. >> Sure. Lisa, so our, our journey into the public cloud is complete. As you said, we put a bow on that project a couple of years ago. We started in 2015 and we went all in on public cloud. So we, the number 95%, 95% represents a true measure of everything it takes to run Accenture. Everything addressable is in the public cloud today. So the 95% just represents a small component of things that have to live outside of the cloud. But other than that, our journey to the cloud is complete, and we are very happy being in the cloud because it has opened tremendous doors for us as a business. I'm sure we'll talk about here as we go, but it's fundamentally a different place we live in today and where we were before we were in the cloud. >> Merim, you said something really powerful there a second ago. The Accenture's journey to the cloud is complete. I don't think I'd ever heard anybody say that. Talk to me about the impact, especially during the last 18 months that that cloud journey is delivered. >> I mean, one of the things I am extremely proud of for our collective global teams around the world, when the, obviously the, you know, when COVID hit and the pandemic engulf the world, the only difference for us was that people just did not come into an office to work. Our capabilities in the cloud, our capabilities of having everything in the cloud really made it that much easier for our people to go to work. We weren't fighting over resources around infrastructure. People could just work from home directly. So I'm extremely proud of the collective global team that made all of that happen as part of that execution of all those things. So it was really a very proud moment, I would say for all of us running IT. >> As well, it should be. Chris, talk about that from your perspective of facilitating that massive pivot 18, 19 months ago, and what your group was responsible for doing to enable this cloud journey to be complete. >> Yeah. I always laughed at, you know, Merim and our internal CIO organizations, we call it was our first customer, right. You know, way back when I started working in this partnership, you know, we were already starting to leverage AWS, S3 and EC2, and that insight Accenture, and we took a lot of those best practices and started helping, our clients leverages best practices. So, you know, from an Accenture, we always kind of harvest from internally what we're doing, but, you know, over the last several years, we really are our focused with the CIO organization, Merim's organization has been, you know, expanding the usage of non, you know, I, as I call Maya services, right? So past EC2, you know, past S3. Obviously there's always storage. There's always compute, but you know, truly doing and building serverless applications, truly using, you know, services, fully managed services. So, you know, the CIO organization doesn't have to spend their time doing that. And, for our customers, that's while it's, they're still early on in a lot of their journeys, that's a novel idea is a truly try to sunset IS services or EC2 and things like that, you know, and whether that's, you know, fix some containerization or things like that, I think the other big part is, is the maturing security footprint, right? Obviously, as you use one or more of these AWS services, your security posture, your presence, how you think about security. We created an asset called secure cloud foundation, leveraging many of the AWS services in the security space that have come out like guard duty and others really to help make that security foundation stronger, make it easier for our customers, including CIO to leverage those services and truly enable that move further up the cloud or further down the continuum as we call it. >> Merim, I want to get your thoughts on security from in a, because we have seen such a dramatic change in the threat landscape in the last 18, 19 months. We've seen a huge spike in ransomware. It's getting much more personal. It's now a household word. We've got the executive order. We had this rapid pivot to and hundreds of thousands of Accenture employees working from home. Talk to me about, you feel very confident in the cloud during that you didn't word where's your competence from a security perspective. >> As you said, security is the fastest growth in our business. Collectively, like you said, the bad guys don't sleep. We don't sleep either when it comes to security. One of the things that we're constantly thinking about is how do we turn on a lot of our capabilities as an example. So even, I would say at an enterprise level, it's different when you're running a big multinational corporation, 650,000 people like we do. We can't just turn everything on and hope for the best. We are very scripted in terms of how we think about those services, how we think about the processes, how we work with our CSO organization, so that we're very meticulous and very thorough in terms of what services we turn on, how we turn them on, when we turn them on? How long we make them available, because this is, this is the new world, right? We have extended our corporate structure out into the cloud. That means we have to think of different ways for how we want to consume those capabilities and services. So like Chris said, you know, the, the journey to the cloud for us is complete. A lot of it was I, as I would tell you, a lot of it was lift and shift for less. And we can talk about that if we get time, but it was more about getting into the cloud and taking advantage of the cloud where we are today, because now that we're there, we get to take advantage of all those capabilities that are there. And I would say the best part of being with on, in, in the cloud is also having the, the providers like AWS they are with us, helping us with that security posture. So it's not just us doing this by ourselves. >> So Chris, I want to talk about that Merim just said, this was mostly lift and shift. Talk to us about that. Cause when we talk to organizations in every industry, the cloud transition, the cloud journey is extremely challenging. It's complex. How did you do this? How did you facilitate this and in a relatively short time period, Chris? >> Yeah. And, and you're right. Everyone has conversations I have with my clients. You know, there's a huge debate whether to lift and shift or modernize or build new build cloud native, right? So, you know, in Accenture's situation, you know, very early on, it was identified that we can, we can do a large savings by doing a lift and shift migration, right. We were not a big data center owner, right. That wasn't, we're not a big capital intense organization. So for us, that, that journey we had, you know, colos and that stuff coming up for renewal. And we knew that we could, you know, get some early savings there and really, you know, reduce our footprint and take that investment and then invest it into, you know, true modernization. So Merim and his organization worked very closely to build the factory, to do the migrations, get that done in a very short amount of time and then turn their attention on truly refactoring rebuilding the applications. I'm super proud of the number of applications that we've rebuilt. I'm super proud of the number of applications that, that now are cloud native. And we live in these applications every day. You know, they they're everything from our performance to how we do our payroll and do our time charging and things like that. But which, you know, it was a big reason why, you know, we can access our systems remotely and at home versus going into different systems to get to that stuff. So, you know, it was very much heavily lift and shift early, then really focusing on modernization. And as Merim said, getting, you know, now it's about living there and continuing, continuing to modernize, continuing to accelerate what we're doing in the cloud. >> Yeah. Lisa, its little bit like, so our journey lift and shift was a core component of it. But the minute we decided to go to the cloud, one of the things, the first things we did, as I said, no more vans. So any new capability that we were going to build, we were going to build a cloud native micro-services based, and that's been our standard for the last 3 or 4 years ago. So any new capability that comes along today that we must do custom, we build a cloud native microservices because one of the other things that I've got on my plate is I'm trying to reduce our overall technical debt. So all of these IS platforms, I still have to maintain them, patch them, support them, upgrade them. And I would rather be much more efficient at doing those things as, as I can and reinvest money into refactoring and modernizing the rest of the application, plead through containers through microservices, et cetera, which then gives me the agility right back to actually go even faster, to enable more services for the business. >> Speed is something that we've seen become even more critical in the last 18, 19 months where we needed to everybody pivot businesses multiple times over and over. But part of the challenge there Merim, I want to get your thoughts on this is they are something cultural shift. Talk to me about, you've been at Accenture for a long time. Talk to me about the cultural shift needed to facilitate this massive transformation to cloud and how Chris's team was a facilitator of that. >> So, you know, one of the things for us, I have probably in the last five years spoken to a thousand of our clients, around our cloud journey and this culture conversation always comes up and I will say, you know, the biggest thing for us was interesting. We had those same fears. We had some same in when we first talked about going to the cloud, you know, six years ago, it was very, not everything was there, that's there today. So the teams were extremely nervous and they were confident that we could never be as, as good in the cloud as we were on, on site. Yet here we are six years later and we're constantly finding ways to add value and take, bring value back. And though, it's so same teams. And one of the things is just, we gave them the challenge to say, Hey, this is the future. We're telling our clients, this is where we're going. We have an opportunity here to do something different and they took it and the team really took it on. And they said, okay, let's do it. And they act, and we looked at how we run into cloud the many different ways, whether we're using reserved instances, whether we're using containers, whether we're using, you know, different computer capabilities, we went through all of it and we're running such a highly efficient machine right now that it's like, we're still able to continue to eat out savings even five years after the program. Even two years after the program is complete, we're still able to get savings. >> That's outstanding. That's ROI that every business and every industry hopes to be able to achieve from this. I want to switch gears a little bit now because this is actually pretty cool. Accenture is really focused also on sustainability. You guys have signed onto the Amazon climate pledge, which if you don't know what the Amazon climate pledge, and this is back in 2019, Amazon, co-founded this a commitment to be net zero carbon across businesses by 2040, which is actually 10 years ahead of the Paris agreement. You're in talk to us about that. And from Accenture's perspective, why it was important to sign on to that. >> So on a, on a personal level, I love obviously sustainability as a whole, that I think about the world park for my children that are growing up. So it's very important to me on a personal level as well. But I would say at a company level, what I love about the cloud is I am there right there with them as they make investments. All of our enterprise capabilities are there. We are able to very quickly shift and use those capabilities. So as Amazon, for example, in this scenario creates new capabilities, new compute offerings, new, new storage offerings, whatever it may be. They're doing it with a sustainability lens and me by being in the cloud already, I can then turn to start using those things too. So as much as I can, on that perspective, I'm in a great place with, as Amazon puts these sustainability capabilities out there, I'm right there consuming and making them more efficient. And then the other one is obviously as much of our workloads, as we can get to a cloud native perspective, microservices perspective, then we keep reducing that compute consumption and everything else that goes along with it. And lastly, I would say, you know, the, the other thing is we're very aggressive in managing all of our systems in terms of uptime. So for example, in a data center, most, most organizations don't think about turning off their development environments and everything else. But for us, we're very rigid in this process. And we have a, we have a target of all of our development environments being down 55% of the time. And primarily that's also a sustainability play in addition to a financial savings plan. >> Awesome. Great stuff, Chris, last question for you, as we wrap up here, what are some of the things that you were excited about that's coming in cloud in the next few years? Obviously here we are at, re-invent going to be hearing a lot of news, a lot of announcements about cloud in the coming days. What excites you most, Chris? >> Yeah. You know, obviously the machine learning and AI stuff is, is always the most exciting things right now in cloud. And, you know, we've put a lot of those to use here inside of Accenture as well. And, and our, you know, in our synopsis platform, which we use with our customers to run in a more intelligent operations, we use that internally as well. But you know, one of the things that excites me the most is the continued innovation at the core. Right. And you know, whether that be, you know, chip sets, you know, Merim talked a little bit about, you know, improvement and performance improvement and power consumption, you know, grabbing time, those types of stuff that, that excites me every year, I look forward to seeing what, what they come out with and, and then how we're going to put that to use. >> Well, I look forward to talking to you guys next year, you've done such a tremendous job. You should be proud of the massive transformation that you've done. I imagine this is, would be a great case study. If it's not already written up, it should be. It's really impressive. Merim and Chris, thank you for joining me at the summit. Talking to me about what's going on with Accenture and AWS and some of the things that you are looking forward to, we appreciate your insights and your time. >> Thanks, Lisa. >> Thanks, Lisa. >> You're welcome for my guests. I'm Lisa Martin. This is the AWS executive summit presented by Accenture at AWS reinvent 2021. (Music)

welcome back to the cube's presentation of the aws executive summit at re invent 2021 made possible by accenture my name is dave vellante we're going to look at how digital infrastructure is helping to transform consumer experiences specifically how an insurance company is changing its industry by incentivizing and rewarding consumers who change their behavior to live healthier lives a real passion of of mine and getting to the really root cause of health with me now are simon guest who's the chief executive officer of generality vitality gmbh and niels mueller who's the managing director at the cloud first application engineering lead for the european market at accenture gentlemen welcome to the cube thanks for having us you're very welcome simon generally vitality it's a really interesting concept that you guys have envisioned and now put into practice tell us how does it all work sure no problem and thanks for for having us on dave it's a pleasure to be here so look uh generally vitality is in its uh it's core pretty simple concepts so it's uh it's a program that you have on your phone and the idea of this program is that it's a it's a wellness coach for you as an individual and it's going to help you to understand your health and where you are in terms of the state of your health at the moment and it's going to take you on a journey to improve your your lifestyle and your wellness and hopefully help you to lead a healthier and a more sort of mindful life i guess is is the best way of summarizing it from um from our point of view with insurance company of course you know our historical role has always been to uh be the company that's there if something goes wrong you know so if unfortunately you pass away or you have sickness in your in your life or in your family's life that's that's historically been our role but what we see with generality vitality is something a little bit different so it's a program that really is uh supposed to be with you every day of your life to help you to live a healthier life it's something that we already have in in four european markets in fact in five from this week i'm a little bit behind the time so we're live already in in germany in france in austria and italy and in spain and fundamentally what we what we do dave is too is to say to customers look if you want to understand your health if you want to improve it by moving a little bit more by visiting the doctor more by eating healthier by healthy choices on a daily basis we're going to help you to do that and we're going to incentivize you for going on this journey and making healthy choices and we're going to reward you for for doing the same so you know we partner up with with great companies like garmin like adidas like big brands that are let's say invested in this health and wellness space so that we can produce really an ecosystem for customers that's all about live well make good choices be healthy have an insurance company that partners you along that journey and if you do that we're going to reward you for for that so you know we're here not just in the difficult times which of course is one of our main roles but we're here as a partner as a lifetime partner to you too to help you feel better and live a better life i love it i mean it sounds so simple but but it's i'm sure it's very complicated to to make the technology simple for the user you've got mobile involved you've got the back end and we're going to get into some of the tech but first i want to understand the member engagement and some of the lifestyle changes simon that you've analyzed what's the feedback that you're getting from your customers what does the data tell you how do the incentives work as well what what is the incentive for the the member to actually do the right thing sure look i think actually the the covered uh situation that we've had in the last sort of two years has really crystallized the fact that this is something that we really ought to be doing and something that our customers really value so i mean look just to give you a bit of a sort of information about how it works for for customers so what we try to do with them is is to get customers to understand uh their current health situation you know using their phone so uh you know we ask our customers to go through a sort of health assessment around how they live what they eat how they sleep you know and to go through that sort of process uh and to give them what a vitality age which is a sort of uh you know sort of actuarial comparison with their real age so i'm i'm 45 but unfortunately my my vitality age is 49 and it means i have some work to do to bring that back together uh and what we see is that you know two-thirds of our customers take this test every year because they want to see how they are progressing on an annual basis in terms of living a healthier life and if what if what they are doing is having an impact on their life expectancy and their lifespan and their health span so how long are they going to live healthier for so you see them really engaging in this in this approach of understanding their current situation then what we know actually because the program is built around this model that uh really activity and moving and exercise is the biggest contributor to living a healthier life we know that the majority of deaths are caused by lifestyle illness is like you know poor nutrition and smoking and drinking alcohol and not exercising and so a lot of the program is really built around getting people to move more and it's not about being an athlete it's about you know getting off the the underground one station earlier walking home or making sure you do your 10 000 steps a day and what we see is that that sort of 40 of our customers are on a regularly basis linking either their phone or their their exercise device to our program and downloading that data so that they can see how how much they are exercising and at the same time what we do is we set we set our customers weekly challenges to say look if you can move a little bit more than last week we are going to to reward you for that and we see that you know almost half of our customers are achieving this weekly goal every week and it's really a fantastic level of engagement that normally is an insurer uh we don't see the way the rewards work is is pretty simple it's similar in a way to an airline program so every good choice you make every activity you do every piece of good food that you eat when you check your on your health situation we'll give you points and the more points you get you go through through a sort of status approach of starting off at the bottom status and ending up at a gold and then a platinum status and the the higher up you get in the status that the higher the value of the rewards that we give you so almost a quarter of our customers now and this is accelerated through provide they've reached that platinum status so they are the most engaged customers that we we have and those ones who are really engaging in the in the program and what we really try to create is this sort of virtuous circle that says if you live well you make good choices you improve your health you you progress through the program and we give you better and stronger and more uh valuable rewards for for doing that and some of those rewards are are around health and wellness so it might be that you get you get a discount on on gym gear from adidas it might be that you get a discount on a uh on a device from garmin or it might be actually on other things so we also give people amazon vouchers we also give people uh discounts on holidays and another thing that we we did actually in the last year which we found really powerful is that we've given the opportunity for our customers to convert those rewards into charitable donations because we we work in generality with a with a sort of um campaign called the human safety net which is helping out the poorest people in society and some what our customers do a lot of the time is instead of taking those financial rewards for themselves they convert it into a charitable donation so we're actually also thinking wellness and feeling good and insurance and some societal good so we're really trying to create a virtuous circle of uh of engagement with our customers i mean that's a powerful cocktail i love it you got the the data because if i see the data then i can change my behavior you got the gamification piece you actually have you know hard dollar rewards you could give those to charities and and you've got the the most important which is priceless can't put a value on good health i got one more question for simon and niels i'd love you to chime in as well on this question how did you guys decide simon to engage with accenture and aws and the cloud to build out this platform what's the story behind that collaboration was there unique value that you saw that that you wanted to tap that you feel like they bring to the table what was your experience yeah look i mean we worked at accenture as well because the the the sort of construct of this vitality proposition is a pretty a pretty complex one so you mentioned that the idea is simple but the the build is not so uh is not so simple and that that's the case so accenture's been part of that journey uh from the beginning they're one of the partners that we work with but specifically around the topic of rewards uh you know we're we're a primarily european focused organization but when you take those countries that i mentioned even though we're next to each other geographically we're quite diverse and what we wanted to create was really a sustainable and reusable and consistent customer experience that allowed us to go and get to market with an increasing amount of efficiency and and to do that we needed to work with somebody who understood our business has this historical let's say investment in in the vitality concept so so knows how to bring it to life but that what then could really support us in making uh what can be a complex piece of work as simple and as as replicable as possible across multiple markets because we don't want to go reinventing the wheel every time we do we move to a new market so we need to find a balance between having a consistent product a consistent technology offer a consistent customer experience with the fact that we we operate in quite diverse markets so this was let's say the the reason for more deeply engaging with accenture on this journey thank you very much niels why don't you comment on on that as well i'd love to to get your thoughts and and really really it's kind of your role here i mean accenture global si deep expertise in industry but also technology what are your thoughts on this topic yeah i'd love to love to comment so when we started the journey it was pretty clear from the outset that we would need to build this on cloud in order to get this scalability and this ability to roll out to different markets have a central solution that can act as a template for the different markets but then also have the opportunity to localize different languages different partners for the rewards there's different reward partners in the different markets so we needed to build in an asset basically that could work as a tempos centrally standardizing things but also leaving enough flexibility to to then localize in the individual markets and if we talk about some of the more specific requirements so one one thing that gave us headaches in the beginning was the authentication of the users because each of the markets has their own systems of record where the basically the authentication needs to happen and we somehow needed to still find a holistic solution that comes through the central platform and we were able to do that at the end through the aws cognito service sort of wrapping the individual markets uh local idp systems and by now we've even extended that solution to have a standalone cloud native kind of idp solution in place for markets that do not have a local idp solution in place or don't want to use it for for this purpose yeah so you had you had data you have you had the integration you've got local laws you mentioned the flexibility you're building ecosystems that are unique to the to the local uh both language and and cultures uh please you had another comment i interrupted you yeah i know i just wanted to expand basically on the on the requirements so that was the central one being able to roll this out in a standardized way across the markets but then there were further requirements for example like being able to operate that platform with very low operations overhead there is no large i.t team behind generally vitality that you know works to serve us or can can act as this itis backbone support so we needed to have basically a solution that runs itself that runs on autopilot and that was another big big driver for first of all going to cloud but second of all making specific choices within cloud so we specifically chose to build this as a cloud native solution using for example manage database services you know with automatic backup with automatic ability to restore data that scales automatically that you know has all this built in which usually maybe a database administrator would take care of and we applied that concept basically to every component to everything we looked at we we applied this requirement of how can this run on autopilot how can we make this as much managed by itself within the cloud as possible and then land it on these services and for example we also used the the api gateway from from aws for our api services that also came in handy when for example we had some response time issues with the third party we needed to call and then we could just with a flick of a button basically introduce caching on the level of the api gateway and really improve the user experience because the data you know wasn't updated so much so it was easier to cache so these are all experiences i think that that proved in the end that we made the right choices here and the requirements that that drove that to to have a good user experience niels would you say that the architecture is is a sort of a data architecture specifically is it a decentralized data architecture with sort of federated you know centralized governance or is it more of a centralized view what if you could talk about that yeah it's it's actually a centralized platform basically so the core product is the same for all the markets and we run them as different tenants basically on top of that infrastructure so the data is separated in a way obviously by the different tenants but it's in a central place and we can analyze it in a central fashion if if the need arises from from the business and the reason i ask that simon is because essentially i look at this as a as largely a data offering for your customers and so niels you were talking about the local language and simon as well i would imagine that that the local business lines have specific requirements and specific data requirements and so you've got to build an architecture that is flexible enough to meet those needs yet at the same time can ensure data quality and governance and security that's not a trivial challenge i wonder if you both could comment on that yeah maybe maybe i'll give a start and then simon can chime in so um what we're specifically doing is managing the rewards experience right so so our solution will take care of tracking what rewards have been earned for what customer what rewards have been redeemed what rewards can be unlocked on the next level and we we foreshadow a little bit to to motivate to incentivize the customer and as that data sits in an aws database in a tenant by tenant fashion and you can run analysis on top of that maybe what you're getting into is also the let's say the exercise data the fitness device tracking data that is not specifically part of what my team has built but i'm sure simon can comment a little bit on that angle as well yeah please yeah sure sure yeah sure so look i think them the topic of data and how we use it uh in our business is a very is very interesting one because it's um it's not historically being seen let's say as the remit of insurers to go beyond the you know the the data that you need to underwrite policies or process claims or whatever it might be but actually we see that this is a whole point around being able to create some shared value in in this kind of product and and what i mean by that is uh look if you are a customer and you're buying an insurance policy it might be a life insurance or health insurance policy from from generali and we are giving you access to this uh to this program and through that program you are living a healthier life and that might have a you know a positive impact on generali in terms of you know maybe we're going to increase our market share or maybe we're going to lower claims or we're going to generate value out of that then one of the points of this program is that we then share that value back with customers through the rewards on the platform that we that we've built here and of course being able to understand that data and to quantify it and to value that data is an important part of the of the the different stages of how you of how much value you are creating and it's also interesting to know that you know in a couple of our markets we we operate in the corporate space so not with retail customers but with with organizations and one of the reasons that those companies give vitality to their employees is that they want to see things like the improved health of a workforce they want to see higher presenteeism lower absenteeism of employees and of course being able to demonstrate that there's a sort of correlation between participation in the vitality program and things like that is also is also important and as we've said the markets are very different so we need to be able to to take the data uh that we have out of the vitality program uh and be able in in the company that that i'm managing to to interpret that data so that in our insurance businesses we are able to make good decisions about the kind of insurance products we i think what's interesting to uh to make clear is that actually that the kind of health data that we generate stays purely within the vitality business itself and what we do inside the vitality business is to analyze that data and say okay is this is this also helping our insurance businesses to to drive uh yeah you know better top line and bottom line in the in the relevant business lines and this is different per company and per mark so yeah being able to interrogate that data understand it apply it in different markets and different uh distribution systems and different kinds of approaches to insurance is an is an important one yes it's an excellent example of a digital business in in you know we talk about digital transformation what does that mean this is what it means i i'd love i mean it must be really interesting board discussions because you're transforming an industry you're lowering overall cost i mean if people are getting less sick that's more profit for your company and you can choose to invest that in new products you can give back some to your corporate clients you can play that balancing act you can gain market share and and you've got some knobs to turn some levers uh for your stakeholders which is which is awesome neil something that i'm interested in i mean it must have been really important for you to figure out how to determine and measure success i mean you're obviously removed it's up it's up to generality vitality to get adoption for for their customers but at the same time the efficacy of your solution is going to determine you know the ease of of of delivery and consumption so so how did you map to the specific goals what were some of the key kpis in terms of mapping to their you know aggressive goals besides the things we already touched on i think one thing i would mention is the timeline right so we we started the team ramping in january or february and then within six months basically we had the solution built and then we went through a extensive test phase and within the next six months we had the product rolled out to three markets so this speed to value speed to market that we were able to achieve i think is one of the key um key criteria that also simon and team gave to us right there was a timeline and that timeline was not going to move so we needed to make a plan adjust to that timeline and i think it's both a testament to to the team's work that they did that we made this timeline but it also is enabled by technologies like cloud i have to say if i go back five years ten years if if you had to build in a solution like this on a corporate data center across so many different markets and each managed locally there would have been no way to do this in 12 months right that's for sure yeah i mean simon you're a technology company i mean insurance has always been a tech heavy company but but as niels just mentioned if you had to do that with it departments in each region so my question is is now you've got this it's almost like non-recurring engineering costs you've got that it took one year to actually get the first one done how fast are you able to launch into new markets just from a technology perspective not withstanding any you know local regulations and figuring out to go to market is that compressed yeah so if you are specifically technology-wise i think we would be able to set up a new market including localizations that often involves translation of because in europe you have all the different languages and so on at i would say four to six weeks we probably could stand up a localized solution in reality it takes more like six to nine months to get it rolled out because there's many other things involved obviously but just our piece of the solution we can pretty quickly localize it to a new market but but simon that means that you can spend time on those other factors you don't have to really worry so much about the technology and so you've launched in multiple european markets what do you see for the future of this program come to america you know you can fight you can find that this program in america dave but with one of our competitors we're not we're not operating so much in uh but you can find it if you want to become a customer for sure but yes you're right so look i think from from our perspective uh you know to put this kind of business into a new market it's not it's not an easy thing because what we're doing is not offering it just as a as a service on a standalone basis to customers we want to link it with with insurance business in the end we are an insurance business and we want to to see the value that comes from that so there's you know there's a lot of effort that has to go into making sure that we land it in the right way also from a customer publishing point of view with our distribution and they are they are quite different so so yeah look coming to the question of what's next i mean it comes in three stages for me so as i mentioned we are uh in five markets already uh in next in the first half of 2022 we'll also come to to the czech republic and poland uh which we're excited to to do and that will that will basically mean that we we have this business in in the seven main uh general markets in europe related to life and health business which is the most natural uh let's say fit for something like vitality then you know the next the sort of second part of that is to say okay look we have a program that's very heavily focused around uh activity and rewards and that that's a good place to start but you know wellness these days is not just about you know can you move a bit more than you did historically it's also about mental well-being it's about sleeping good it's about mindfulness it's about being able to have a more holistic approach to well-being and and covert has taught us and customer feedback has taught us actually that this is something where we need to to go and here we need to have the technology to move there as well so to be able to work with partners that are not just based on on on physical activity but also also on mindfulness so this is how one other way we'll develop the proposition and i think the third one which is more strategic and and we are you know really looking into is there's clearly something in the whole uh perception of incentives and rewards which drives a level of engagement between an insurer like generali and its customers that it hasn't had historically so i think we need to learn you know forget you know forgetting about the specific one of vitality being a wellness program but if there's an insurer there's a role for us to play where we offer incentives to customers to do something in a specific way and reward them for doing that and it creates value for us as an insurer then then this is probably you know a place we want to investigate more and to be able to do that in in other areas means we need to have the technology available that is as i said before replicable faster market can adapt quickly to to other ideas that we have so we can go and test those in in different markets so yes we have to we have to complete our scope on vitality we have to get that to scale and be able to manage all of this data at scale all of those rewards at real scale and uh to have the technology that allows us to do that without without thinking about it too much and then to say okay how do we widen the proposition and how do we take the concept of vitality that sits behind vitality to see if we can apply it to other areas of our business and that's really what the future is is going to look like for us you know the the isolation era really taught us that if you're not a digital business you're out of business and pre-kov a lot of these stories were kind of buried uh but the companies that have invested in digital are now thriving and this is an awesome example jeff another point is that jeff amebacher one of the founders of cloudera early facebook employee famously said about 10 12 years ago the best and greatest engineering minds of our my generation are trying to figure out how to get people to click on ads and this is a wonderful example of how to use data to change people's lives so guys congratulations best of luck really awesome example of applying technology to create an important societal outcome really appreciate you your time on the cube thank you thanks bye-bye all right and thanks for watching this segment of thecube's presentation of the aws executive summit at reinvent 2021 made possible by accenture keep it right there for more deep dives [Music] you