>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston. It's the Cube covering empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by >>Oracle Consulting. Everybody, this is Dave Vellante. We've been covering the transformation of Oracle consulting and really, it's rebirth. And I'm here with Chris Fox, who's the group vice president for Enterprise Cloud Architects and chief technologist for the North America Tech Cloud at Oracle. Chris, thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >>Thanks too great to be here, >>So I love this title. You know, years ago, this thing is a cloud architect. Certainly there were chief technologist, but so you really that's those are your peeps, Is that right? >>That's right. That's right. That's really in my team. And I That's all we dio. So our focus is really helping our customers take this journey from when they were on premise. You really transforming with cloud? And when we think about Cloud, really, for us, it's a combination. It's it's our hybrid cloud, which happens to be on premise. And then, of course, the true public cloud, like most people, are familiar with so very exciting journey and frankly, of seeing just a lot of success for our customers. You know what I think we're seeing at Oracle, though? Because we're so connected with SAS. And then we're also connected with the traditional applications that have run the business for years. The legacy applications that have been, you know, servicing us for 20 years and then the cloud native developers. So with my team and I are constantly focused on now is things like digital transformation and really wiring up all three of these across. So if we think of, like a customer outcome like I want to have a package delivered to me from a retailer that actual process flow could touch a brand new cognitive site of e commerce it could touch essentially maybe a traditional application that used to be on Prem that's now in the cloud. And then it might even use new SAS application, maybe for maybe Herman process or delivery vehicle and scheduling. So when my team does, we actually connect all three. So what? I was mentioned, too. In my team and all of our customers, we have field service, all three of those constituents. And if you think about process flows, so I take a cloud. Native developer we help them become efficient. We take the person use to run in a traditional application, and we help them become more efficient. And then we have the SAS applications, which are now rolling out new features on a quarterly basis and the whole new delivery model. But the real key is connecting all three of these into your business process flow. That makes the customers life much more vision. >>So I want to get into this cloud conversations that you guys are using this term last mover advantage. I asked you last I was being last, You know, an advantage. But let me start there. >>People always say, You know, of course, we want to get out of the data center. We're going zero data center and how we say, Well, how are you going to handle that back office stuff, right? The stuff that's really big Frankie, um, doesn't handle just, you know, instances dying or things going away too easily. It needs predictable performance in the scale. It absolutely needs security. And ultimately, you know, a lot of these applications truly have relied on Oracle database. The Oracle database has its own specific characteristics that it means to run really well. So we actually looked at the cloud and we said, Let's take the first generation clouds but you're doing great But let's add the features that specifically a lot of times the Oracle workload needed in order to run very well and in a cost effective manner. So that's what we mean when we say last mover advantage, We said, Let's take the best of the clouds that are out there today. Let's look at the workloads that, frankly, Oracle runs and has been running for years. What are customers needed? And then let's build those features right into this, uh, this next version of the cloud we service the Enterprise. So our goal, honestly, which is interesting is even that first discussion we had about cloud, native and legacy applications and also the new SAS applications. We built a cloud that handles all three use cases at scale resiliently in very secure manner, and I don't know of any other cloud that's handling those three use cases all in. We'll call it the same pendency process. Oracle >>Mike witnesses. Why was it important for Oracle? And is it important for Oracle on its customers that have to participate in IAS and Pass and SAS. Why not just the last two layers of that? Um What does that mean from a strategic advantage standpoint? What does that do for >>you? Yeah, great question. So the number one reason why we needed to have all three was that we have so many customers to today are in a data center. They're running a lot of our workloads on premise, and they absolutely are trying to find a better way to deliver lower cost services to their customers. And so we couldn't just say, Let's just everyone needs to just become net new. Everyone just needs to ditch the old and go just a brand new alone. Too hard, too expensive at times. So we said, You know, let's kill us customers the ultimate amount of choice. So let's even go back against that developer conversation and SAS Um, if you didn't have eyes, we couldn't help customers achieve a zero data center strategy with their traditional applications will call it PeopleSoft or JD Edwards, Revisit Suite or even. There's some massive applications that are running on the Oracle cloud right now that are custom applications built on the Oracle database. What they want is, they said, Give me the lowest. Possibly a predictable performance. I as I'll run my app steer on this number two. Give me a platform service for database because, frankly, I don't really want to run your database. Like with all the manual effort. I want someone automate, patching scale up and down and all these types of features like should have given us. And then number three. You know, I do want SAS over time. So we spend a lot of time with our customers really saying, How do I take this traditional application, Run it on eyes and has and the number two Let's modernize it at scale. Maybe I want to start peeling off functionality and running in the cloud Native services right alongside, right? That's something again that we're doing at scale. And other people are having a hard time running these traditional workloads on Prem in the cloud. The second part is they say, you know, I've got this legacy traditional your api been servicing we well, or maybe a supply chain system ultimately want to get out of this. How do I get to SAS? You say Okay, here's the way to do this. First bring into the cloud running on IAS and pass and then selectively, I call it cloud slicing. Take a piece of functionality and put it into SAS. We're helping customers move to the cloud at scale. We're helping them do it at their rate, with whatever level of change they want. And when they're ready for SAS, we're ready for them. >>How does autonomous fit into this whole architecture Wait for that? That that description? I mean, it's a it's nuanced, but it's important. I'm sure you haven't discussed this conversation with a lot of cloud architects and chief technologist. They want to know this stuff. They want to know how it works. Um, you know, we will talk about what the business impact is, but but yeah, it's not about autonomous and where that fits. >>So the autonomous database, what we've done is really big. And look at all the runtime operations of an Oracle database. So tuning, patching, sparing all these different features and what we've done is taken the best of the Oracle database the best of something called Exit Data right, which we run in the cloud which really helps a lot of our customers. And then we wrapped it with a set of automation and security tools to help it. Really, uh, managing self tune itself. Patch itself scale up and down, independent between compute and storage. So why that's important, though, is that it? Really? Our goal is to help people run the Oracle databases they have for years, but with far less effort and then even not letting far less effort. Hopefully, you know a machine. Last man out of the equation we always talk about is your man plus machine is greater than man alone, so being assisted by, um, artificial intelligence and machine learning to perform those database operations, we should provide a better service to our customers. Far less paths are hoping goal is that people have been running Oracle databases, you know, How can we help them do it with far less effort and maybe spend more time on what the data can do for the organization? Right? Improve customer experience at Centra versus maybe like Hana Way. How do I spin up the table? It >>so talk about the business impact. So you go into customers, you talk to the the cloud Architects, the chief technologist. You pass that test now, you got to deliver the business impact. We're is Oracle Consulting fit with regard to that? And maybe you could talk about that where you were You guys want to take this thing? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so you know, the cloud is a great set of technologies, but where Oracle Consulting is really helping us deliver is in, um, you know, one of the things I think that's been fantastic working with the Oracle consulting team is that, you know, Cloud is new for a lot of customers who've been running these environments for a number of years. There's always some fear and a little bit of trepidation saying, How do I learn this new cloud of the workloads? We're talking about David, like tier zero, tier one, tier two and all the way up to Dev and Test and, er, um, Oracle consulting. This really couple things in particular, Number one, they start with the end in mind, and number two that they start to do is they really help implement these systems. And, you know, there's a lot of different assurances that we have that we're going to get it done on time and better be under budget because ultimately, you know, again, that's a something is really paramount for us and then the third part of it. But sometimes a run book, right? We actually don't want to just live in our customer's environments. We want to help them understand how to run this new system. So training and change management. A lot of times, Oracle Consulting is helping with run books. We usually well, after doing it the first time. We'll sit back and say, Let the customer do in the next few times and essentially help them through the process. And our goal at that point is to leave only if the customer wants us to. But ultimately our goal is to implemented, get it to go live on time and then help the customer learn this journey to the cloud and without them. Frankly, uh, you know, I think these systems were sometimes too complex and difficult to do on your own. Maybe the first time, especially cause I could say they're closing the books. They might be running your entire supply chain. They run your entire HR system, whatever they might be, uh, too important, leading a chance. So they really help us with helping a customer become live and become very confident. Skilled. They could do themselves >>of the conversation. We have to leave it right there. But thanks so much for coming on the Cube and sharing your insights. Great stuff. >>Absolutely. Thanks for having me on. >>All right. You're welcome. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for the Cube. We are covering the oracle of North American Consulting. Transformation. And it's rebirth in this digital event. Keep it right there. We'll be right back.

>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, it's theCUBE! Covering empowering the autonomous enterprise. Brought to you by ORACLE Consulting. >> Back to theCUBE everybody, this is Dave Vellante. We've been covering the transformation of ORACLE Consulting, and really it's rebirth, and I'm here with Chris Fox, who's the Group Vice President for Enterprise Cloud Architects and Chief Technologist for the North America Tech Cloud at ORACLE. Chris, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks Dave, glad to be here. >> So, I love this title. I mean, years ago, there was no such thing as a cloud architect. Certainly there were chief technologists, but so, you are really, those are your peeps, is that right? >> That's right, that's right. That's really my team and I, that's all we do. So, our focus is really helping our customers take this journey from when they were on-premise to really transforming with cloud, and when we think about cloud, really, for us, it's a combination. It's our hybrid cloud, which happens to be on-premise, and then, of course, the true public cloud, like most people are familiar with. So, very exciting journey and, frankly, I've seen just a lot of success for our customers. You know, Dave, what I think we're seeing at ORACLE though, because we're so connected with SaaS, and then we're also connected with the traditional applications that have run the business for years, the legacy applications that have been, you know, servicing us for 20 years, and then the cloud needed developers. So, what my team and I are constantly focused on now is things like digital transformation and really wiring up all three of these across. So, if we think of, like, a customer outcome like I want to have a package delivered to me from a retailer, that actual process flow could touch a brand new cloud-native site from eCommerce, it could touch, essentially, maybe a traditional application that used to be on-prem that's now on the cloud, and then it might even use a new SaaS application, maybe, for maybe a permit process or delivery vehicle and scheduling. So, what my team does, we actually connect all three. So, what I always mention to my team and all of our customers, we have to be able to service all three of those constituents and really think about process flows. So, I take the cloud-native developer, we help them become efficient. We take the person who's been running that traditional application and we help them become more efficient, and then we have the SaaS applications, which are now rolling out new features on a quarterly basis and it's a whole new delivery model, but the real key is connecting all three of these into a business process flow that makes the customer's life much more efficient. People always say, you know, Chris, we want to get out of the data center, we're going zero data center, and I always say, well, how are you going to handle that back office stuff? Right? The stuff that's really big, it's cranky, doesn't handle just, you know, instances dying or things going away too easily. It needs predictable performance, it needs scale, it absolutely needs security, and ultimately, you know, a lot of these applications truly have relied on an ORACLE database. The ORACLE database has its own specific characteristics that it needs to run really well. So, we actually looked at the cloud and we said, let's take the first generation clouds, which are doing great, but let's add the features that specifically, a lot of times, the ORACLE workload needed in order to run very well and in a cost effective manner. So, that's what we mean when we say last mover advantage. We said, let's take the best of the clouds that are out there today, let's look at the workloads that, frankly, ORACLE runs and has been running for years, what our customers needed, and then let's build those features right into this next version of the cloud which can service the enterprise. So, our goal, honestly, which is interesting, is even that first discussion we had about cloud-native and legacy applications and also the new SaaS applications, we built a cloud that handles all three use cases at scale, resiliently, in a very secure manner, and I don't know of any other cloud that's handling those three use cases all in, we'll call it the same tendency for us at ORACLE. >> My question is why was it important for ORACLE, and is it important for ORACLE and its customers, to participate in IaaS and PaaS and SaaS? Why not just the last two layers of that? What does that give you from a strategic advantage standpoint and what does that do for your customer? >> Yeah, great question. So, the number one reason why we needed to have all three was that we have so many customers who, today, are in a data center. They're running a lot of our workloads on-premise and they absolutely are trying to find a better way to deliver lower-cost services to their customers and so we couldn't just say, let's just, everyone needs to just become net new, everyone just needs to ditch the old and go just to brand-new alone. Too hard, too expensive, at times. So we said, you know, let's give us customers the ultimate amount of choice. So, let's even go back again to that developer conversation in SaaS. If you didn't have IaaS, we couldn't help customers achieve a zero data center strategy with their traditional application, we'll call it PeopleSoft or JD Edwards or E-Business Suite or even, there's some massive applications that are running on the ORACLE cloud right now that are custom applications built on the ORACLE database. What they want is they said, give me the lowest cost but yet predictable performance IaaS. I'll run my apps tier on this. Number two, give me a platform service for database, 'cause frankly, I don't really want to run your database, like, with all the menial effort. I want someone to automate patching, scale up and down, and all these types of features like the cloud should have given us. And then number three, I do want SaaS over time. So, we spend a lot of time with our customers really saying, how do I take this traditional application, run it on IaaS and PaaS, and then number two, let's modernize it at scale. Maybe I want to start peeling off functionality and running them as cloud-native services right alongside, right? That's something, again, that we're doing at scale and other people are having a hard time running these traditional workloads on-prem in the cloud. The second part is they say, you know, I've got this legacy traditional ERP. It's been servicing me well, or maybe a supply chain system. Ultimately I want to get out of this. How do I get to SaaS? And we say, okay, here's the way to do this. First, bring it to the cloud, run it on IaaS and PaaS, and then selectively, I call it cloud slicing, take a piece of functionality and put it into SaaS. We're helping customers move to the cloud at scale. We're helping 'em do it at their rate, with whatever level of change they want, and when they are ready for SaaS, we're ready for them. >> And how does autonomous fit into this whole architecture? Thank you, by the way, for that description. I mean, it's nuanced but it's important. I'm sure you're having this conversation with a lot of cloud architects and chief technologists. They want to know this stuff, and they want to know how it works. And then, obviously, we'll talk about what the business impact is, but talk about autonomous and where that fit. >> So, the autonomous database, what we've done is really taken a look at all the runtime operations of an ORACLE database, so tuning, patching, securing, all these different features, and what we've done is taken the best of the ORACLE database, the best of something called Exadata, right, which we run on the cloud, which really helps a lot of our customers, and then we've wrapped it with a set of automation and security tools to help it really manage itself, tune itself, patch itself, scale up and down independent between computant storage. So, why that's important though is that it really, our goal is to help people run the ORACLE database as they have for years but with far less effort, and then even not only far less effort, hopefully, you know, a machine plus man, kind of the equation we always talk about is man plus machine is greater than man alone. So, being assisted by artificial intelligence and machine learning to perform those database operations, we should provide a better service to our customers with far less cost. Our hope and goal is that people have been running ORACLE databases. How can we help them do it with far less effort, and maybe spend more time on what the data can do for the organization, right? Improve customer experience, etc. Versus maybe, like, how do I spin up (breaks up). >> So, let's talk about the business impact. So, you go into customers, you talk to the cloud architects, the chief technologists, you pass that test. Now you got to deliver the business impact. Where does ORACLE Consulting fit with regard to that? And maybe you could talk about where you guys want to take this thing. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the cloud is great set of technologies, but where ORACLE Consulting is really helping us deliver is in the outcome. One of the things, I think, that's been fantastic working with the ORACLE Consulting team is that, you know, cloud is new. For a lot of customers who've been running these environments for a number of years, there's always some fear and a little bit of trepidation saying, how do I learn this new cloud? I mean, the workloads we're talking about, Dave, are like tier zero, tier one, tier two and, you know, all the way up to DEV and TEST and DR. ORACLE Consulting does really couple of things in particular. Number one, they start with the end in mind, and number two that they start to do, is they really help implement these systems and there's a lot of different assurances that we have that we're going to get it done on time and better be under budget, 'cause ultimately, again, that's something that's really paramount for us. And then the third part of it, a lot of times it's runbooks, right? We actually don't want to just live in our customers' environments. We want to help them understand how to run this new system, so in training and change management, a lot of times ORACLE Consulting is helping with runbooks. We usually will, after doing it the first time, we'll sit back and let the customer do it the next few times and essentially help them through the process, and our goal at that point is to leave. Only if the customer wants us to, but ultimately our goal is to implement it, get it to go live on time, and then help the customer learn this journey to the cloud. And without them, frankly, I think these systems are sometimes too complex and difficult to do on your own maybe the first time, especially 'cause like I say, they're closing the books. They might be running your entire supply chain. They run your entire HR system or whatever they might be. Too important to leave to chance. So, they really help us with helping the customer become live and become very confident and skilled 'cause they can do it themselves. >> Well Chris, we've covered the gamut. Loved the conversation. We'll have to leave it right there, but thanks so much for coming on theCUBE and sharing your insights. Great stuff. >> Absolutely, thanks Dave, and thanks for having me on. >> All right, you're welcome, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. We are covering the ORACLE of North America Consulting transformation and its rebirth in this digital event. Keep it right there, we'll be right back.

>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, it's theCUBE! Covering empowering the autonomous enterprise. Brought to you by ORACLE Consulting. >> Back to theCUBE everybody, this is Dave Vellante. We've been covering the transformation of ORACLE Consulting, and really it's rebirth, and I'm here with Chris Fox, who's the Group Vice President for Enterprise Cloud Architects and Chief Technologist for the North America Tech Cloud at ORACLE. Chris, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks Dave, glad to be here. >> So, I love this title. I mean, years ago, there was no such thing as a cloud architect. Certainly there were chief technologists, but so, you are really, those are your peeps, is that right? >> That's right, that's right. That's really my team and I, that's all we do. So, our focus is really helping our customers take this journey from when they were on-premise to really transforming with cloud, and when we think about cloud, really, for us, it's a combination. It's our hybrid cloud, which happens to be on-premise, and then, of course, the true public cloud, like most people are familiar with. So, very exciting journey and, frankly, I've seen just a lot of success for our customers. You know, Dave, what I think we're seeing at ORACLE though, because we're so connected with SaaS, and then we're also connected with the traditional applications that have run the business for years, the legacy applications that have been, you know, servicing us for 20 years, and then the cloud needed developers. So, what my team and I are constantly focused on now is things like digital transformation and really wiring up all three of these across. So, if we think of, like, a customer outcome like I want to have a package delivered to me from a retailer, that actual process flow could touch a brand new cloud-native site from eCommerce, it could touch, essentially, maybe a traditional application that used to be on-prem that's now on the cloud, and then it might even use a new SaaS application, maybe, for maybe a permit process or delivery vehicle and scheduling. So, what my team does, we actually connect all three. So, what I always mention to my team and all of our customers, we have to be able to service all three of those constituents and really think about process flows. So, I take the cloud-native developer, we help them become efficient. We take the person who's been running that traditional application and we help them become more efficient, and then we have the SaaS applications, which are now rolling out new features on a quarterly basis and it's a whole new delivery model, but the real key is connecting all three of these into a business process flow that makes the customer's life much more efficient. People always say, you know, Chris, we want to get out of the data center, we're going zero data center, and I always say, well, how are you going to handle that back office stuff? Right? The stuff that's really big, it's cranky, doesn't handle just, you know, instances dying or things going away too easily. It needs predictable performance, it needs scale, it absolutely needs security, and ultimately, you know, a lot of these applications truly have relied on an ORACLE database. The ORACLE database has its own specific characteristics that it needs to run really well. So, we actually looked at the cloud and we said, let's take the first generation clouds, which are doing great, but let's add the features that specifically, a lot of times, the ORACLE workload needed in order to run very well and in a cost effective manner. So, that's what we mean when we say last mover advantage. We said, let's take the best of the clouds that are out there today, let's look at the workloads that, frankly, ORACLE runs and has been running for years, what our customers needed, and then let's build those features right into this next version of the cloud which can service the enterprise. So, our goal, honestly, which is interesting, is even that first discussion we had about cloud-native and legacy applications and also the new SaaS applications, we built a cloud that handles all three use cases at scale, resiliently, in a very secure manner, and I don't know of any other cloud that's handling those three use cases all in, we'll call it the same tendency for us at ORACLE. >> My question is why was it important for ORACLE, and is it important for ORACLE and its customers, to participate in IaaS and PaaS and SaaS? Why not just the last two layers of that? What does that give you from a strategic advantage standpoint and what does that do for your customer? >> Yeah, great question. So, the number one reason why we needed to have all three was that we have so many customers who, today, are in a data center. They're running a lot of our workloads on-premise and they absolutely are trying to find a better way to deliver lower-cost services to their customers and so we couldn't just say, let's just, everyone needs to just become net new, everyone just needs to ditch the old and go just to brand-new alone. Too hard, too expensive, at times. So we said, you know, let's give us customers the ultimate amount of choice. So, let's even go back again to that developer conversation in SaaS. If you didn't have IaaS, we couldn't help customers achieve a zero data center strategy with their traditional application, we'll call it PeopleSoft or JD Edwards or E-Business Suite or even, there's some massive applications that are running on the ORACLE cloud right now that are custom applications built on the ORACLE database. What they want is they said, give me the lowest cost but yet predictable performance IaaS. I'll run my apps tier on this. Number two, give me a platform service for database, 'cause frankly, I don't really want to run your database, like, with all the menial effort. I want someone to automate patching, scale up and down, and all these types of features like the cloud should have given us. And then number three, I do want SaaS over time. So, we spend a lot of time with our customers really saying, how do I take this traditional application, run it on IaaS and PaaS, and then number two, let's modernize it at scale. Maybe I want to start peeling off functionality and running them as cloud-native services right alongside, right? That's something, again, that we're doing at scale and other people are having a hard time running these traditional workloads on-prem in the cloud. The second part is they say, you know, I've got this legacy traditional ERP. It's been servicing me well, or maybe a supply chain system. Ultimately I want to get out of this. How do I get to SaaS? And we say, okay, here's the way to do this. First, bring it to the cloud, run it on IaaS and PaaS, and then selectively, I call it cloud slicing, take a piece of functionality and put it into SaaS. We're helping customers move to the cloud at scale. We're helping 'em do it at their rate, with whatever level of change they want, and when they are ready for SaaS, we're ready for them. >> And how does autonomous fit into this whole architecture? Thank you, by the way, for that description. I mean, it's nuanced but it's important. I'm sure you're having this conversation with a lot of cloud architects and chief technologists. They want to know this stuff, and they want to know how it works. And then, obviously, we'll talk about what the business impact is, but talk about autonomous and where that fit. >> So, the autonomous database, what we've done is really taken a look at all the runtime operations of an ORACLE database, so tuning, patching, securing, all these different features, and what we've done is taken the best of the ORACLE database, the best of something called Exadata, right, which we run on the cloud, which really helps a lot of our customers, and then we've wrapped it with a set of automation and security tools to help it really manage itself, tune itself, patch itself, scale up and down independent between computant storage. So, why that's important though is that it really, our goal is to help people run the ORACLE database as they have for years but with far less effort, and then even not only far less effort, hopefully, you know, a machine plus man, kind of the equation we always talk about is man plus machine is greater than man alone. So, being assisted by artificial intelligence and machine learning to perform those database operations, we should provide a better service to our customers with far less cost. Our hope and goal is that people have been running ORACLE databases. How can we help them do it with far less effort, and maybe spend more time on what the data can do for the organization, right? Improve customer experience, etc. Versus maybe, like, how do I spin up (breaks up). >> So, let's talk about the business impact. So, you go into customers, you talk to the cloud architects, the chief technologists, you pass that test. Now you got to deliver the business impact. Where does ORACLE Consulting fit with regard to that? And maybe you could talk about where you guys want to take this thing. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the cloud is great set of technologies, but where ORACLE Consulting is really helping us deliver is in the outcome. One of the things, I think, that's been fantastic working with the ORACLE Consulting team is that, you know, cloud is new. For a lot of customers who've been running these environments for a number of years, there's always some fear and a little bit of trepidation saying, how do I learn this new cloud? I mean, the workloads we're talking about, Dave, are like tier zero, tier one, tier two and, you know, all the way up to DEV and TEST and DR. ORACLE Consulting does really couple of things in particular. Number one, they start with the end in mind, and number two that they start to do, is they really help implement these systems and there's a lot of different assurances that we have that we're going to get it done on time and better be under budget, 'cause ultimately, again, that's something that's really paramount for us. And then the third part of it, a lot of times it's runbooks, right? We actually don't want to just live in our customers' environments. We want to help them understand how to run this new system, so in training and change management, a lot of times ORACLE Consulting is helping with runbooks. We usually will, after doing it the first time, we'll sit back and let the customer do it the next few times and essentially help them through the process, and our goal at that point is to leave. Only if the customer wants us to, but ultimately our goal is to implement it, get it to go live on time, and then help the customer learn this journey to the cloud. And without them, frankly, I think these systems are sometimes too complex and difficult to do on your own maybe the first time, especially 'cause like I say, they're closing the books. They might be running your entire supply chain. They run your entire HR system or whatever they might be. Too important to leave to chance. So, they really help us with helping the customer become live and become very confident and skilled 'cause they can do it themselves. >> Well Chris, we've covered the gamut. Loved the conversation. We'll have to leave it right there, but thanks so much for coming on theCUBE and sharing your insights. Great stuff. >> Absolutely, thanks Dave, and thanks for having me on. >> All right, you're welcome, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. We are covering the ORACLE of North America Consulting transformation and its rebirth in this digital event. Keep it right there, we'll be right back.

(enlightening music) >> Hello everyone, I'm John Furrier here at theCUBE headquarters in Palo Alto, California, for a special CUBE Conversation. I'm the host of theCUBE here with my special guest, Monica Kumar, vice president of Oracle Cloud platform. Monica, thanks for joining me today. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> So Oracle Cloud has got some great stuff goin' on, one of the things I'm most intrigued about, I've heard a lot about, is this autonomous database. I have a lot of questions, want to dig into it and really unpack that, so first take a minute to explain, what is the autonomous database? >> You know, before I do that, John, can I ask you a question? >> Sure! >> You use a smartphone, right? >> Yep. >> Do you know what happens every minute of when we use a smartphone and use the internet, how much data gets generated? >> No. >> Okay, I'm going to tell you. >> Alright, good. >> 16 million text messages happen every single minute, about four million Google searches, we're talking four million YouTube videos watched, about a million Facebook pages are open, and half a million Tweets. Now think about the impact of all this data in just one minute. Somebody, somewhere, is finding this data useful, and can actually extract some value out of it. Now, you might have heard this also, that in the last two years, the world's 90 percent of data has actually been created, and it's doubling every two years. >> So my kid's LTE bill, that's why, they're watching Netflix, that's why I'm paying all this extra bandwidth. (laughs) This is a real world. I mean, I can imagine my iPhone, I got multiple apps on there, lot of power being used, but that's just one piece, like when I'm buying with Apple Pay, or I'm doing things around, there's a lot of mobility involved, what's the value of all this? >> Well see, there's also a lot of devices, I mean we talk about IoT. By the year 2021, or in about the next five years, there'll be 50 billion devices that will be collecting data, analyzing data, sharing data. So what we're talking about is the sheer volume of the data that's being generated. And ultimately, every organization is trying to figure out how to extract insights from this data, how to make their businesses run better because of those insights. Whether create new revenue streams, maybe optimize for efficiency, deliver better customer services. So that is the problem we are dealing with today is, how do we get more value out of that data? >> So how does it all work, I mean autonomous driving, you see cars around, Uber's been trying to do it, other people have fleets, cars all over the place. Autonomous database, I mean it sounds like it's self-driving, which implies that's what cloud is all about, automation. How does the check work, what's goin' on under the hood? >> Yeah so let me explain to you, I mean this is where Oracle comes in. We've been in the data and information business for over four decades. This is what we've done. We've actually been solving the hard problem for our customers when it comes to data management, and using data. And now with this new whole deluge of more and more data, who better than Oracle to solve this problem? And one of the more important ways in which we can solve this problem is by automation, is by the use of machine learning. So that's where we're moving as a company, is you're moving to adopt and embed more and more machine learning across our entire cloud portfolio. And one of the biggest things we're doing is what you're talking about, autonomous database, which is exactly that, it's combining machine learning with the decades and decades of the database optimizations that we've been putting out in the industry. It's the power of that combination, which has culminated into what we call autonomous database today. >> Is autonomous database on-premises and Cloud, or both, how does that work? >> Yes, Oracle's always been about choice, so definitely it's both. And I'll explain to you the cloud offering, in fact, you eluded to self-driving cars. It's very similar to that. So there are three core attributes of autonomous database. It's self-driving, self-securing, and self-repairing, and let me explain to you what I mean by each of those. So self-driving is really the database provisioning itself, upgrading itself, patching, tuning, monitoring, backing up, all of the functions that are very manual today, are all done by autonomous database itself, so that's the self-driving part. Self-securing, applying all of the security patches by itself so the user doesn't have to worry about it. And the self-repairing is really focused on maximizing uptime, productivity. So today we offer with autonomous 99.995 percent uptime, which means 2.5 minutes of downtime or less per month, per month, which includes, by the way, both planned and unplanned downtime. So that's what autonomous database is, it's using the power of machine learning to automate all of the manual tasks that a human being is doing, which is really not of high value, which is really very administrative type of work. >> So I can see some of the time things are great for customers, what other benefits do those customers have in terms of having this, obviously automation takes away a lot of, makes free time, but what specific benefits do you guys see coming out of this for customers? >> Yeah, absolutely, I think for businesses it's all about outcome. So there are three major benefits of autonomous. The first one is reducing cost, it's making sure that the administrative times, I'll give you an example, we now with autonomous can cut off the administrative time by 80 percent, the cost of administering a database. So that's real hard savings for the customer, and they can then take that and put into something else that more strategic to them. It's about reducing risk. The risk of breeches, which could cause reputational damage to companies, which could cause, shareholder value loss. So the fact that we are reducing risk with autonomous technology is another big benefit. And the third, and the most important one, is really innovation, the time to innovation, the time to insights, more productivity for the customer. So those three, in my opinion, are the top three benefits >> To organizations. >> Now being agile, having flexibility, the cloud certainly brings that scale out mentality, that server list we hear things like that in the industry, so certainly very relevant, and machine learning makes that automation happen. Love that message. The question I would have for you is okay, in my mind, I'm trying to think, how would I buy this, how would I use it? What are some of the offerings that you guys have, is it turnkey box, is it software, how do you roll this out to customers, how do they consume it? Take us through the offering itself. >> Sure, today we offer autonomous in our cloud in two different offerings. One is autonomous data warehouse, which is purely for analytics, so you can actually create new data warehouses, or data mods to get insights from your data. The second one is transaction processing, it's autonomous transaction processing, which can be used to develop applications, to deploy applications, high-performance workloads, mission-critical workloads in the cloud. So those are the two ways we can do, in fact, we have many customers who are using our technology today in our cloud. But like I said, this is also going to be available in on-premises as well. >> That's awesome. So, when you get into the customer examples, who's using this now? Is it shipping? What's the status of it? I mean this gets a lot of attention, and the press articles are great. We covered it on SiliconANGLE, what are the customer examples? >> Absolutely, so of course it's shipping, and it's the first and only self-driving database in the industry. We have many, many customers for the last few months who are using it. I'll give you a few examples. We have a major Enterprise car rental company who is using it, and they were able to cut down their time to provision databases from two weeks to eight minutes. Now what does that mean? That means they can now roll out projects faster, and improve their customer services and offers they are making to customers. We have another customer who is in the shipping and oil industry, and they've cut down their time to querying complex data sets from 20 minutes to a few seconds. Again, which means they can get access to insights much faster to make decisions. And they've also eliminated downtime from patching because everything is done online, patching is done automatically on the database while it's running online. And then we have another customer who's a managed service provider. They're now able to provision their customers 10 times faster. So that means they can grow their business, they can provision more customers, their current customers can be happier because they are supporting them better and faster. >> What are some of the comments and messages, to kind of go off tangent for a second here but, I mean, they go "Wow, this is amazing"? What's some of the feedback you're getting? What are they saying, what are some the anecdotal comments? Share some color around that. >> Sure, I mean one of the big comments is "Wow! Me, I'm a DB, I thought this was "going to take my job away, but actually, "to the contrary, it's making my job easier." DBAs are now realizing they can actually manage many more databases efficiently in the same time that they were doing before. And secondly, they don't have to be involved in manual drudgery tasks, they can now offload all of that to autonomous database, and they can now focus on more strategic tasks. They can become a partner to the business, they can focus on application life-cycle management, on data security, on data architectures. So that's the one reaction we are getting is like "Wow, I didn't realize how much of my time "I was spending doing maintenance stuff, "which really adds no value to the organization." So customers are seeing a lot of productivity gains. I think the second thing is the speed of innovation. The fact that it would take them three months, six months, to deploy new projects, and now they can do it quickly within a few minutes is actually unbelievable to them. >> This is a real good point, I just want more double-down on that real quick, because one of the things we're seeing is, across all the events we go to, that message of the fear of "Oh my god, "I'm going to lose my job" or "I'm going to be automated away" actually isn't true. If they get re-deployed in other easier jobs, I don't want to say easier, but all the mundane tasks can be automated, that's a good thing. The security thing about the patching and self-updating, that's amazing. But the skill gaps is a huge problem CIOs face is that they need more people. And cloud architects are the number-one demand jobs, so I mean this must be really refreshing to hear that when you say "Hey, you were doing "a DBA job before, or something else, "now you're a cloud architect." Are you seeing the cloud architect role become important, and if so, what are they doing? What's the role of a cloud architect, and how does this fit into that? >> Yeah, I think the way we describe it, I think it's close to cloud architect, but think about it from administering data, or managing databases to actually using databases to mine insights, it's a different mindset. So you're becoming a data professional from a data administrator. So as opposed to having a job of managing a database, that's not important, what's important is you use the database to get insights and make your business smarter. So now we are working with, for example, our DBA stakeholders, which have been our Oracle family for four decades, to help them re-skill, to new ways of thinking, to becoming data professionals, to becoming data architects, and like I said, focusing on things like data life-cycle management, how do you work with application developers, how do you work with lines of businesses when your line of business comes to you and says "Hey, I want a database tag deployed for XYZ", the ability for them to say "Of course, I can give it to you in minutes." as opposed to saying "Oh, you'll have to wait two months." Imagine that. >> Yeah they're helping people, and they're also, more important, they're powerful. >> Right, right. >> Okay, Oracle OpenWorld is happening, and so one of the conversations we're hearing, and certainly this is consistent throughout the industry, the role of security. I put my skeptic hat on like okay Monica, tell me the truth, is it really self-updating the security patches? What about the phishing attacks? There's a real paranoia on the security. Take me through the security, while you guys are comfortable with the security, what's the big message and what's the big feature of why it's so secure? >> Right. But before I do that, let me paint a picture for you. We all know the opportunity that comes with Cloud, it presents huge opportunities to organizations. But with every opportunity, there comes a challenge that needs to be solved. And like you said, security is a big challenge. We are talking about massive scale of security breeches happening in the industry. We are talking about bad guys having access to very sophisticated technologies to wage this war against us, the organizations, to get access to core data. And we are talking about the number of security issues that are happening multiplying and compounding, and I'll give you some data points. There are 3.5 million cyber security jobs that are open in the next couple years. We don't have enough people to fill those jobs, even if we did, we can't keep pace with the amount of security threats and challenges that we need to navigate and address. >> And by the way, that's a data problem by the way, too. >> Back to your data is the central value proposition. >> Exactly, and also the other point I want to give you, which is equally important is of all the breeches that have happened, 85 percent actually had to fix available, and yet it wasn't applied and the breech happened. So again, we are talking about human beings who are very busy >> The human error on the patch side is huge. Spear phishing and also patches are the two number one areas of security. >> Right, but also people are busy. You kind of say "Okay, I'm going to do this later, "I have so many other 10 things to take care of first, "and I'm going to apply this patch later." Now what happens is, that's why we need to throw automation and machine learning at this problem. I don't think we can solve it by throwing just more and more human man-power on it. We need to combine the power of human and machine to tackle this security problem, and that's what we're doing with autonomous database. Not only can we predict a breech before it happens, we can actually fix it before it becomes an issue. And that's what I'm talking about with the whole self-securing notion. That's the power of autonomous database. >> A few Oracle OpenWorlds ago, Larry Ellison said on stage, I'll never forget this, I actually loved the line, other people kind of gave him some heat for it, but he said "Security should always be on. "Off is the exception." Has that view permeated through Oracle? >> Oh, Oracle was built on that view. We have, if you look again at our history, and our customer base, we are supporting the largest and the biggest governments in the world. We support from federal governments, to state governments, to public sector, to every organization who cares deeply about security, and it's not just a government issue, it's every organization has to safeguard the data of their customers. I mean that's the law. Every single organization cares about it. Oracle was built on that, that's the foundation that we are built on. So for us, security is very important, that's the first design principle of our data management, and all of our technology solutions. >> Well you guys are in the middle of all the cloud action, for sure, we're covering you guys, it's great to have you on theCUBE. Monica, thanks for coming and sharing your story. Where can people find out more information on the autonomous database, this awesome new product? >> Well, it's going to be all over oracle.com, so I'd say go there at first and from there you can navigate to a lot of great content on autonomous database. We have customer studies, we have free trials, so you can take us for a spin. It's like driving a self-driving car, it's self-driving database. >> It's a Tesla. >> Yeah, it's like the Tesla of databases, exactly. >> Monica, thanks for coming, I'm John Furrier here for CUBE Conversation, we are in Palo Alto at our headquarters, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, thanks for watching. (enlightening music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE! Covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017. Brought to you by Oracle. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. We are here live, in Las Vegas, the Mandalay Bay Convention Center, this is SiliconANGLE Media's theCUBE, our flagship program where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier with my co-host, Peter Burris, Head of Research at siliconANGLE and wikibon.com. Our next guest is Jennifer Renaud, who's the CMO/Global Marketing Lead for Oracle Marketing Cloud. She's the brains behind this show, underneath Laura Ipsen, who was on yesterday, General Manager, SVP. Great to see you, Jennifer. >> Thanks, it's great to see you. >> John: Thanks for coming on, I know you're super busy, thanks for spending the time to come on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me, I'm really happy to be here. >> So we talked last year. You guys were new. Laura popped into the position, took over the helm at Oracle Marketing Cloud, you joined the team. It's been quite a transformation over the past year. A lot of great feedback on the show. I mean, the Markies was like the Golden Globes, was glammed up, and people screaming, you mentioned. And then now, the conversations in the hallways, certainly great feedback on the sessions, and people in there saying, "Hey, I'm getting great, qualified people walk through, having great conversations." What happened? Between last year and this year. Give us some insight into what was the big shift. >> The big shift? Well, we've had a big shift in our team. You know, during that time period. (both laughing) Which is really interesting. >> And as manifest by the show, a big shift in direction. >> Yeah, a big shift in direction. You know, two things I think, seriously, there was a big shift in the team, overall, you know, my marketing team, we've made a lot of changes, we're relooking at how we do the work that we do. Really looking at the stories that we tell. You know, there's been a lot of change in that, as well. And then, how we tell our stories together with the rest of our CX team. That's been really important. I spend a lot of time with the rest of my CX peers, you know, that are here also. >> It's interesting, we've been following Oracle, this is our eighth year covering Oracle as Oracle proper, and two years covering Marketing Cloud, with theCUBE, and it was interesting, we were observing that how you guys got here, or there, last year, a lot of great acquisitions and integrated pretty well. But the question was, man, if you can just put all this together. Which you guys were kind of smiling, smirking, but you were doing that, so you have now this cohesive story and platform. You still have pillars of solutions, but, yet integrated under one customer experience. Give us some insight into where that is, and what's next, and how that's going. >> So, the connection with the entire customer experience cloud? >> John: Yeah. >> You know, we've been sharing that message for a while. You know, across Oracle. And I think you probably heard it the first time at Open World, which is where I met you, this last year, and we made some announcements then, but we are continuing to drive that total experience, you know, for our customers to engage with their customers. And, you know, I think probably the best way to look at that, and we were just talking about this a few minutes ago, you know, when I was thinking back in marketing 25 years ago. I've been reminiscing a lot lately. And I was looking back at re-reading the one-to-one future. And at that time, they were really saying, you know, the great thing you can do is engage with a customer in a way where you're a learning organization. So every touchpoint has the right reaction. I might call it, maybe, the physics of marketing. You know, we're going to have the energy that goes with this, so, you know, if I talk to you, if my last engagement with you is a services conversation, then the next marketing message better be in reaction to the last services conversation. And I think now with the ability for us to connect everything that we do in customer experience, and be able to connect our data, and be able to connect our interactions, our transactions, we have the ability to have a really great experience for our customers as result of having this connection. >> And the Marketing Cloud has gotten some good props, too. But I want to ask you about the CMO summit that you guys had in parallel here at the Mandalay Bay, we didn't get a chance to cover it, we were busy doing interviews all day yesterday, but we heard some good feedback. Mark Hurd came in and laid down some, like, "We have all this technology, why are we getting a 1% conversion improvement?" Or, I mean, all that tech. So it makes you rethink about CMO roles. And I want to ask you specifically, what was the conversation like when marketers were trying to think of progressive ways to get modern? What were some of the conversations around where they turn things upside down, what are some of the conversations that the CMOs were having, and saying, look, we know the future's the certain direction, directionally correct data, what do I got to do? >> Yeah, well, it's interesting, we talked a lot about data. We talked a lot about hiring people who can govern data, integrate data, manage data. Several of the companies said, you know, we're in merger and acquisition all the time, and it's a huge issue for us, because a whole new data set comes in. And it may have the same customer touchpoints. You know, the same customers. And now we have to figure out how to match the IDs. And so they said it's a huge challenge for them, you know, to be able to merge all of that. >> It's a great marketing opportunity for you to go to startups saying, hey, if you want to get by the big company, and they're on Oracle, make sure you're on Oracle! >> Jennifer: Make sure to call us. >> But that's a good point. >> Peter: Extends the ecosystem. >> Jennifer: Yeah, exactly. >> But that, the whole system of record, this brings up the integration challenges of moving fast and integrating in data. >> Right, and one of the things that came out of that, which was fascinating, is, the question was asked, is IT doing that, or is business doing it? And, without fail, almost all the marketers said, we own this now. This is our thing. You know, it's the customer touchpoint, business has to own it. >> What percentage of that is ownership by the marketing folks? Because I would say that I see a similar pattern where the digital end-to-end life cycle, from beginning to moment of truth is owned by the marketer. >> Yeah, well, it's happening more and more all the time, of course. >> John: 50/50? 60/40? 70/30? >> I mean, in reality? >> Yeah, reality. Middle America, middle of the world, not Silicon Valley. >> Let's see, in reality, it's maybe 50/50, maybe. I mean, I think we have a long way to go. >> John: Well had the commerce folks on earlier, saying that, 'cause we interviewed her, two years ago at Open World, 50% now are on the cloud vs. on-prem. >> Jennifer: Right. >> On commerce cloud. That's pretty significant. >> Oh yeah, big move. But I think as far as, you know, going back to the question on managing the data, how many people, how this is happening, and who owns it yet? I think there's probably still tension across all the businesses on who owns it and how you do that. If you could drop that tension and say we really do want that customer experience, we are going to focus on the customer. >> But are seeing that, and it's an interesting point, are people battling for control of the process, or are people battling for the control of the data, or both? 'Cause there's a difference. >> I think they are controlling the data. I don't think they're controlling the process, and it would be really great if they got to just obsessing about the customer instead. 'Cause if you did that, then the question of process or owning the data would go away. 'Cause you would do what was right for your business. >> So how has that relationship been between, the crucial relationship between sales and marketing starting to evolve? 'Cause in many respects, marketing used to be in service to sales, especially in the B2B universe, and now what we've heard today, and what we agree with, is marketing needs to be put in service to the customer. You need to do valuable things for the customer, otherwise you're not going to get any business, and you're not going to get any data back. So how is the marketing/sales relationship evolving as both of you try to focus on the customer? >> Well, you know it's interesting. Of course I'm doing that in my own role. Not just watching what's happening with my customers, but in my own role, my relationship is evolving with our salespeople. And, you know, relooking at what happens with the lead? And when we get a lead, what kinds of customers are we doing this with, and how do we want to engage with our customers? And we're completely changing how we've been doing this. I think, in the past, and I think it's really easy for customers to follow the numbers. >> What changes are you guys making right now that you can talk about that would be notable business practice wise that has been based upon data? >> So right now, just reducing our numbers of leads. Making sure that they are the right ones, and match the sales models we have. >> You're still taking a lot of inquiries you're more than happy to have pour in. But you're doing a better job of qualifying. >> We have a lot of demand. Making sure the demand becomes the right lead and opportunity, I think is the most important piece of this. You know, it's interesting language. We call it MQL, a lead score lead that comes out of Eloqua. And, to me, that's not really a qualified lead. I feel like there needs to be human interaction for it to be qualified. So I think it's interesting that the industry, over time, has started calling it an MQL. To me, it's an ML. >> Is the funnel changing now? 'Cause now we also observed and had conversations here on theCUBE where, if there's now super omnichannels, not just omnichannel, but like, every channel's open. There's been a flattening of channels. So you can have anything could be a channel. The entry point to the cloud for you guys could be Marketing Cloud, it could be commerce, it could be something else. Either way, the market is involved. So there's so many channels out there, so what does that do for the funnel? Because, if you're using third party data, which you guys have announced here, with the first party data, that's a compelling, game-changing shift in thinking. So the vertical funnel to your point of, you know, what's at the top. >> There's no such thing as a vertical funnel anymore. I mean, it just doesn't exist that way. Really, if you think about how we are engaging with customers, or consumers, you know, all the time. We talk about the omnichannel world, just like you just said, you can't look at it and say, "I'm going to go out and target someone" and wait for that to come in. People are searching all the time. They're picking up their phone. We just released that CMO Club whitepaper today, you know, talking about mobility. I was laughing, because we said people look at their phones 150 times a day, and I thought, seriously, I do it 150 times an hour. I can't even imagine. >> You're the first CMO that I've ever met that has agreed with me on this one. You're awesome. All right, so the funnel is sideways, it's all over the place, it's everywhere. That brings up the data question. And I think I know where you're going with this, so I'm going to try to see if I can lead you on there. So if that premise is there, which I agree is true, 'cause we have a lot of data that we're putting out there. That's our engagement data with siliconANGLE and all of our assets. The question is, it's the data. So, if the funnel was built for a certain reason, to track things, but that's to get the data, now the data's everywhere, so this brings the question up: how do you find the right data? So is the data available? 'Cause you mentioned the customers are talking, they're doing things. >> Data's available. We have it all over, we just have to make sure we're aggregating it in the right way. So, you know, for us, we're using our DMP, we're connecting it to our third party data, which I think is a great way to do this. You can know more about your customers. In some cases, maybe more than they might know about themselves. We're learning a lot about them as a result. And I think, with that, as we talked about earlier, I want more data. I don't want less data. I want more data. I want to know more about-- >> That's counterintuitive to what most people think about it. >> Exactly, I think it's very counterintuitive. I'm really excited about IOT for that reason. I would love to be marketing to people in space and time. I want to know where you are and what you're doing so that the conversation and the dialogue I'm having with you is exactly relevant to what's happening at that moment. >> You might be an outlier, maybe, but because you work for Oracle, you got a big net. You walk on the tightrope, but you got a net called Oracle. A lot of marketers might not have that support. So you're data-driven, you want more data, bring on the data is what you're saying. >> Yeah. >> Which is good, 'cause you can make sense of it. How does a company get to that position where they would have the courage and confidence to say "bring it on, bring on the data"? What would they-- >> Find the right partnerships. I mean, you can get that data, you have your own first party data, you can get second party data with other groups. There's no reason why you can't go in and say, hey I want to partner with another business on this. Companies have loyalty programs. You can go and share, you know, anonymized data with another group like that and learn more about your potential customer base. There are ways to get at this. >> And you guys are opening up the data cloud to them. Is this a true statement? Oracle customers can get access to the data cloud? Which is all the data that you guys are providing, third party data? >> They can purchase the data. >> John: Well, they can subscribe to it. >> Yeah, they get it with purchasing DMP as well. Yeah, they can subscribe to the data. Yeah, any customer can get access to it. >> I have two questions about what you've said thus far. One was, I heard you say, I want to make sure I heard it, that it's an ML, it's not an MQL until it touches a person. Because that, at a conference where everybody's talking about AI and everyone's talking about automation, that is counterintuitive. Totally agree with you, but want to hear what you mean by that. >> Okay, so we'll distinguish what I think AI will do versus what happens when a lead comes out from Eloqua that's lead scored. So, when a lead is lead scored, you know, it's still human interaction right now that says how do I come up with a lead score? You know, so my team, we spend a lot of time, like, which metric should we be using to make sure we figure out, is truly a lead that should come out of Eloqua at this point. We spend a lot of time, and then we run the data, and we look at it and figure out what's going to be the right mix. >> So you're, in many respects, training Eloqua. Just in a very labor-intensive way. >> Jennifer: Yes, it is a labor-intensive way. >> John: That's a human-curated algorithm. >> It is a human-curated algorithm, yes, and we talk to all of our global teams, we look at absolutely every way we should do this, and then we start testing it and making sure that we get the right leads that are coming out of this. At the right rate. That matches the number of people that we have that can serve the leads, as well. Too many doesn't help us if I don't have enough salespeople. Too few doesn't help me if my salespeople are sitting there not doing anything. >> So the readiness is the knob you're turning. So that the flow of leads are popping out in capacity to fulfill them. >> Exactly, exactly. It's an interesting mix. You know, we've been doing the model that says more is better, more is better, more is better. And after while you say, you know, how are this many people going to service this x many times leads that come out of this? But lead scoring is still based on my less than perfect -- >> Peter: Discretionary observation on what this actually means. >> Jennifer: What this actually means, exactly. >> That's great, that's great-- >> So I still need a human to pick up the phone and call the person and say, you know, are you actually a perspective customer? Are you a student, or are you, you know. >> So you're using some of the inside to then validate and use your judgment, it can be very quick, and very simple, but it's a central feature of the whole process, and it's the ultimate data. It's the ultimate first person data. Did you talk to someone, are they there? That's great. Second question-- >> John: I'm not sure I agree-- >> Now we can go to the AI, I think, which is the other part of that question, which is the predictive analytics that's coming out of this now. So now we have predictive analytics are coming out of this, that are looking at this and saying, hey we can look at this a little differently and do a little more listening and see how people are really engaging. Do we have different search patterns? We're saying, do we see search patterns inside of a company that might say there really is a buying activity happening here? So, great way to look at it from a B2B perspective. Now that begins to change what's happening with the lead. >> So it sets priorities on who they should be calling. Do you still anticipate that that customer's going to get a phone call? >> Jennifer: Yes, yeah. >> Okay great, second question-- >> Hold on, I'm going to push back on that side. One little caveat I have. I agree with your statement, in the all-digital world, the users are self-serving, so you can imagine a scenario where there's no human involvement at all. I'm flying around the web, I'm surfing, I'm discovering, and I'm a person, and I'm into some marketplace, and I'm buying, I'm buying. No human touched me at all. I'm a qualified lead, but I get link-baited, or I get tracked into a discovery pattern that is completely digital. There's no human involvement in that. >> In a B2B sense, though, it's setting up the contract so someone can buy off a contract, for example. So the buying activity may be set up. >> John: Oh, you're talking about B2B? >> Yeah, B2B, always. >> Yeah, and B2C I think it's a totally different scenario. >> When was the last time you got a call from somebody at Amazon? >> John: Never. >> Yeah. So second question, and I think this a great point, it ties back to the conversation we had earlier about partners. The partner often is the weakest chain. Weakest link in the chain. In a world where digital is both informing the customer about what's good and what's bad, but also you're sharing data. You run the risk that that partner defines the quality of the entire chain. So you've got to start sharing more data, you got to start sharing. How is the role of data impacting and influencing the activity of bringing on, nurturing, measuring, ultimately managing, partnerships? >> I think you guys talked to Doug Kennedy yesterday. >> John: He's a pro. >> Yeah, he's fantastic. From a marketing standpoint, in the same way, we are going to continue to share with our partners. So if we're looking at the numbers of partners that we engage with. Could they be the weakest link? I would probably challenge you on that, I think our partners can be our strongest link in what we're doing, and are probably closer to our customers than we are, in marketing, by a long shot. So I count on my partners to bridge that gap that way, absolutely, but will we share data so we can absolutely have a better relationship, from a selling perspective? Yeah. >> First let me qualify, that when you have multiple partnerships involved, and typically a solution, a complex solution like the Marketing Cloud, what we're talking about, is going to have multiple partnerships involved. You may have three phenomenal partnerships, and one good partnership. But that one good partner could have an enormous influence over the three very good partners. That's what I mean. So the second thing is, what I'm talking about is, does Oracle compete, or does Oracle utilize its willingness to use data, especially through tooling like Marketing Cloud, and the customer experience cloud, as a way of making Oracle more attractive to partners? >> Yes, absolutely. We would absolutely want to do that. We haven't been doing a lot of it, but we are moving forward that way, absolutely. We want to have that engagement. Absolutely, we want to have that engagement with our partners. I think, especially in marketing, we don't want them to just buy technology. I mean, they need to buy the really great creativity that comes with our partners, as well. And so we have to share as much data as possible to create that great experience for our customers, through our partnerships. >> Jennifer, I want to thank you for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate you coming on, sharing the insight into your role as CMO from Oracle Marketing Cloud. Appreciate it. Just share what's up for next year. Will there be another, bigger Markies? What's on the agenda for in between this event and next year, what's the plans between event windows? What do you got going on, what's the plan? >> Okay, so, when the 12th annual Markies happens next year, roughly about this time. I think it's almost the same week. Which will be fantastic. In the meantime, we're going to do a lot of storytelling. You will hear a lot about the Markies nominees and Markies winners. We have some incredible stories to tell, it gives us a great opportunity, actually, to talk about the people. You know, for us, the heroes, that created all of these great stories for us. The technology. And how they were using the technology to really make all of this happen, and the partners that they were using. >> Yeah, Doug rolled out his new strategy to the partners, he's been seven weeks on the job, back to Oracle from Oracle in the old days. So he's a pro. >> Jennifer: Yeah, oh yeah, he's great. I worked with him at Microsoft. >> And integrating into the Oracle cloud, still part of the plan? >> Jennifer: Yes. >> Cool. >> Just staying connected with the rest of Oracle, absolutely, we are Oracle. >> We will keep track of the stories with you guys. So we'll be tracking them. >> We'll be telling them with you, all year. >> We'll be documenting them. Jennifer, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. Congratulations on the very successful event. >> Thank you very much. >> We're looking forward to hearing the data stories that you're using, and expanding on that next time. It's theCUBE live here at Las Vegas, at Mandalay Bay, for Oracle Modern CX show, #modernCX, this is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris, more after this short break.

(energetic upbeat music) >> Host: Live from Las Vegas, it's The CUBE. Covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017. Brought to you by Oracle. >> Welcome back, everyone. We are here live in Las Vegas at the Mandalay Bay for Oracle's Modern CX show, Modern Customer Experience. The Modern Marketing Experience converted into the Modern CX Show. I'm John Furrier with The Cube. My co-host Peter Burris. Day two of coverage. Our next guest is Catherine Blackmore, Global Vice President, Customer Success, Global Customer Success at Oracle Marketing Cloud. Catherine, welcome back to The CUBE. Great to see you. >> Thank you so much for having me here. It's been an incredible week, just amazing. >> Last year we had a great conversation. Remember we had. >> Yes. >> It was one of those customer focused conversations. Because at the end of the day, the customers are the ones putting the products to use, solving their problems. You were on stage at the keynote. The theme here is journeys, and the heroes involved. What was the summary of the keynote? >> Sure. As you say, this theme has really been around heroic marketing moments. And in a way, I wanted to take our marketers and the audience to an experience and a time where I think a lot of folks can either remember or certainly relate where, what was the beginning of really one experience, which was Superman. If you think about heroism and a superhero, well, Superman will come to mind. But I think what was interesting about that is that it was created at a time where most folks were not doing well. It was actually during the Great Depression. And most folks wouldn't realize that Superman almost never came to be. It was an image, an icon, that was created by two teenage boys, Jerry Shuster and Joe Siegal. And what they did is they got audience. They understood, just as two teenage boys, my parents, my family, my community is just not doing well. And we see that folks are trying to escape reality. So we're going to come up with this hero of the people. And in doing so, what's interesting is, they really were bold, they were brave. They presented a new way to escape. And as a result, DC Comics took it up. And they launched, and they sold out every single copy. And I think it's just a really strong message about being able to think about creativity and being bold. Jerry and Joe were really the heroes of that story, which was around. My challenge to the audience is, who's your Superman? What is your creative idea that you need to get out there? Because in many ways, we need to keep moving forward. At the same time, though, balance running a business. >> It's interesting, you did mention Superman and they got passed over. And we do a lot of events in the industry, a lot of them are big data events. And it's one little insight could actually change a business, and most times, some people get passed over because they're not the decision maker or they may be lower in the organization or they may just be, not be knowing what to do. So the question on the Superman theme, I have to ask you, kind of put you on the spot here is, what is the kryptonite for the marketer, okay, because >> (laughing) Yes. >> there's a lot of obstacles in the way. >> Catherine: It is. >> And so people sometimes want to be Superman, but the kryptonite paralyzes them. >> Catherine: Yeah. >> Where's the paralysis? >> It's funny that you say that. I think I actually challenge folks to avoid the kryptonite. There was three things that we really talked about. Number one is, Modern Marketing Experience, it's just an incredible opportunity for folks to think ahead, dream big, be on the bleeding edge. But guess what, we're all going to go on flights, we're going to head home, and Monday morning's going to roll around and we're going to be stuck and running the business. And my inspiration and, really, challenge to the audience and to all of our marketers is how do we live Modern Marketing Experience everyday? How do we keep looking ahead and balance the business? And, really, those heroic marketers are able to do both. But it doesn't stop there. We talked a lot about this week, about talent. Do we have the right team? Kryptonite is not having the right people for today and tomorrow, and then in addition to that, you can't just have a team, you can't just have a vision, but what's your plan? Where actually having the right stakeholders engaged, the right sponsorship, that's certainly probably the ultimate kryptonite if you don't. >> The sponsorships are interesting because the people who actually will empower or have empathy for the users and empower their people and the team have to look for the yes's, not the no's. Right. And that's the theme that we see in the Cloud success stories is, they're looking for the yes. They're trying to get that yes. But they're challenging, but they're not saying no. That's going to shut it down. We've seen that in IT. IT's been a no-no, I was going to say no ops but in this digital transformation with the emphasis on speed, they have to get to the yes. So the question is, in your customer interactions, what are some of those use cases where getting to that yes, we could do this, What are some of the things, is it data availability? >> Catherine: Absolutely. >> Share some color on that. >> I think, So I actually had a wonderful time connecting with Marta Federici, she met with you earlier. And I love her story, because she really talks about the culture and placing the customer at the center of everything they're doing, to the extent that they're telling these stories about why are we doing this? We're trying to save lives, especially in healthcare. And just to have stories and images. And I know some companies do an amazing job of putting the customer up on the wall. When we talk to our customers about how do we actually advance a digital transformation plan? How do we actually align everyone towards this concept of a connected customer experience? It starts with thinking about everyone who touches the customer every day and inspiring them around how they can be part of being a customer centric organization. And that's really, that's really important. That's the formula, and that's what we see. Companies, that they can break through and have that customer conversation, it tends to align folks. >> Interesting. We were talking earlier, Mark Hurd's comment to both the CMO Summit that was happening in a separate part of the hotel here in the convention center, as well as his keynote. He was saying, look, we have all this technology. Why are we doing this one percent improvement? And he was basically saying, we have to get to a model where there's no data department anymore. There never was. >> That's right. >> And there shouldn't be. There shouldn't be, that department takes care of the data. That's kind of the old way of data warehousing. Everyone's a data department, and to your point, that's a liberating, and also enables opportunities. >> It does. We talked a lot. Actually, the CMO Summit that we had as well this week, a lot of our CMOs were talking about the democratization of data. And Elissa from Tableau, I think you also talked to. We talked about, how do you do that? And why, what are those use cases, where, Kristen O'Hara from Time Warner talked about it as well. And I think, that's where we have to go. And I think there's a lot of great examples on stage that I would like to think our marketers, and quite frankly, >> Which one's your favorite, favorite story? >> My favorite story. >> John: Your favorite story. >> Wow, that's really putting me on the spot. >> It's like picking your favorite child. I have four. I always say "well, they're good at this sport, or this kid's good in school." Is there? >> I guess one. >> John: Or ones that you want to highlight. >> Well one that I, because we talked about it today. And it was really a combination of team and plan. Just really highlighting on what Marta's driving. If you think about the challenges of a multinational >> Peter: Again, this is at Philips. >> John: Marta, yeah. >> Catherine: This is Philips, Royal Philips. So Marta, what she's really, her team has been trying to accomplish, both B to C and B to B, and it speaks to data, and it talks about obviously having CRM be kind of that central nervous system so that you can actually align your departments. But then, being able to think about team. They've done a lot of work, really making certain they have the team for today and the future. They're also leveraging partners, which is also key to success. And then, having a plan. We spent time with Royal Philips actually at headquarters a number of weeks ago and they are doing this transformation, this disruptive tour with all of their top folks across, around the world that running their different departments, to really have them up and them think differently which is aligning them around that culture of looking out to the future. >> Peter: Let's talk a bit about thinking differently. And I want to use you as an example. >> Catherine: Sure. >> So your title is Customer Success. Global Vice President, Global Customer Success. What does that mean? >> Sure. I know a lot of folks, I'd like to think that, that's just a household name right now in terms of Customer Success. But I realize it's still a little new and nascent. >> We've seen it elsewhere but it's still not crystal clear what it means. >> Sure, sure. So when I think of Customer Success, the shorter answer is, we help our customers be successful. But that, what does it really mean? And when I think about the evolution of what Customer Success, the department, the profession, the role, has really come to be, it's serving a very important piece of this Cloud story. Go back a decade when we were just getting started actually operationalizing SaaS and thinking about how to actually grow our businesses, we found that there just needed to be a different way of managing our customers and keeping customers, quite frankly. Cause as easy as it is to perhaps land a SaaS customer, and a Cloud customer, because it's easier to stand them up and it's easier for them to purchase, but then they can easily leave you too. And so what we found is, the sales organization, while, obviously understands the customer, they need to go after new customers. They need to grow share. And then in addition to that, in some organizations, there still are services to obviously help our customers be successful. And that's really important, but that is statement-of-work-based. There's a start and a stop and an end to that work. And then obviously there's support that is part of a services experience, but they tend to be queue-based, ticket-based, break-fix. And what we found in all of this is, who ultimately is going be the advocate of the customer? Who's going to help the customer achieve ROI business value and help them ensure that they are managing what they've purchased and getting value, but also looking out towards the future and helping them see what's around the corner. >> Catherine I want to ask the question. One of the themes in your keynote was live in the moment every day as a modern marketing executive, build your team for today and tomorrow, and plan for the future. You mentioned Marta, who was on yesterday, as well as Kristen O'Hara from Time Warner. But she made an interesting comment, because I was trying to dig into her a little bit, because Time Warner, everyone knows Time Warner. So, I was kind of curious. At the same time, it was a success story where there was no old way. It was only a new way, and she had a pilot. And she had enough rope to kind of get started, and do some pilots. So I was really curious in the journey that she had. And one thing she said was, it was a multi-year journey. >> Catherine: Yes. >> And some people just want it tomorrow. They want to go too fast. Talk through your experience with your customer success and this transformation for setting up the team, going on the transformational journey. Is there a clock? Is there a kind of order of magnitude time frame that you've seen, that works for most companies? >> Sure. And actually I want to bring in one more experience that I know folks had here at Modern Marketing, which was, also, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, he actually talked about this very thing. I think a lot of folks related to that because what he's been doing in terms of building out this community and creating crowd-sourced, or I should say, I think he would want to say community-sourced content and creativity. It was about, you can't really think about going big. Like I'm not thinking about feature film. I'm thinking about short video clips, and then you build. And I think everyone, the audience, like okay I get that. And Kristen's saying, it took many little moments to get to the big moment. I think folks want to do it all, right at the very beginning. >> John: The Big Bang Theory, just add, >> Absolutely. >> Just add water, and instant Modern Marketing. >> It is, it is. >> John: And it's hard. >> And what we have found, and this is why the planning part is so important, because what you have to do, and it might not be the marketer. The marketer, that VP of Marketing, even that CMO may know, it's going to be a three year journey. But sometimes it's that CEO, Board of Director alignment that's really required to mark, this is the journey. This is what year one's going to look like. This is what we're going to accomplish year two. There may be some ups and downs through this, because we need to transform sales, we need to transform back in operations in terms of how we're going to retire old processes and do new. And in doing so, we're going to get to this end state. But you need all of your stakeholders to be engaged, otherwise you do get that pressure to go big because, you know what Mark was saying, I've got 18 months, we need to be able to show improvement right away. >> We were talking about CIOs on another show that I was doing with Peter. And I think Peter made the comment that the CIO's job sometimes doesn't last three years. So these transformations can't be three years. They got to get things going quicker, more parallel. So it sounds like you guys are sharing data here at the event among peers >> Catherine: Yes. >> around these expectations. Is there anything in terms of the playbook? >> Catherine: Yes. >> Is it parallel, a lot of AGILE going on? How do you get those little wins for that big moment? >> So I think this is where the, what I would call, the League of Justice. You got to call in that League of Justice. For all you Superman out there. Because in many ways you're really challenged with running the business, and I think that's the pressure all of us are under. But when you think about speeding up that journey, it really is engaging partners, engaging, Oracle Marketing Cloud, our success and services team. I know you're going to be talking to Tony a little bit about some of the things we're building but that's where we can really come in and help accelerate and really demonstrate business value along the way. >> Well one more question I had for you. On the show floor, I noticed, was a lot of great traffic. Did you guys do anything different this year compared to last year when we talked to make this show a little bit more fluid? Because it seems to me the hallway conversation has been all about the adaptive intelligence and data is in every conversation that we have right now. What have you guys done differently? Did it magically just come to you, (Catherine laughing) Say, we're going to have to tighten it up this year? What was the aha moment between last year and this year? It's like night and day. >> I would like to think that we are our first and best customer, because as we ourselves are delivering technology, we ourselves also have to live what we tell our customers to do every day. Look at the data, look at the feedback. Understand what customers are telling you. How can you help customers achieve value? And we think of this as an important moment for our partners and our companies, that are here spending money and spending time to be here, achieve value. What we've done is really create an experience where it's so much easier to have those conversations. Really understanding the flow of traffic, and how we can actually ensure people are able to experience our partners, get to know them, get to know other customers. A lot of folks, too, have been saying, love keynote, love these different breakout sessions, but I want to connect with other folks going through that same thing that I am, so I can get some gems, get some ideas that I can pick up. >> And peer review is key in that. They talk to each other. >> Exactly. That's right, that's right. And so we've really enabled that, the way that we've laid out the experience this year. And I know it's even going to be better next year. Cause I know we're going to collect a lot more data. >> Well last year we talked a lot about data being horizontally scalable. That's all people are talking about now, is making that data free. The question for you is, in the customer success journeys you've been involved, what's the progress bar of the customer in terms of, because we live in Silicon Valley. So oh yeah, data driven marketer! Everyone's that. Well, not really. People are now putting the training wheels on to get there. Where are we on the progress bar for that data driven marketer, where there's really, the empathy for the users is there. There's no on that doubts that. But there's the empowerment piece in the organization. Talk about that piece. Where are we in that truly data driven marketer? >> Oh, we're still early days. It was obvious in talking to our various CMO's. We were talking about talent and the change, and what the team and the landscape needs to look like to respond to certainly what we've experienced in technology over the last number of years and then even what was introduced today. That level of, I need to have more folks that really understand data on my team but I'll tell you, I think the thing that's really interesting though about what we've been driving around technology and specifically AI. I love what Steve said, by the way, which is if a company is presenting AI as magic, well the trick's on you. Because truly, it's not that easy. So I think the thing that we need to think about and we will work with our customers on is that there's certainly a need and you have to be data driven but at the same time, we want to be innovation ready and looking and helping our customers see the future to the extent that how we think about what we're introducing is very practical. There's ways that we can help our customers achieve success in understanding their audience in a way that is, I wouldn't say, it's just practical. We can help them with use cases, and the way the technology is helping them do that, I think we're going to see a lot of great results this year. >> AI is great, I love to promote AI hype because it just makes software more cooler and mainstream, but I always get asked the question, how do you evaluate whether something is BS in AI or real? And I go, well first of all, what is AI? It's a whole 'nother story. It is augmented intelligence, that's my definition of it. But I always say, "It's great sizzle. Look for the steak." So if someone says AI, you got to look on the grill, and see what's on there, because if they have substance, it's okay to put a little sizzle on it. So to me, I'm cool with that. Some people just say, oh we have an AI magical algorithm. Uh, it's just predictive analytics. >> Catherine: Yes. >> So that's not really AI. I mean, you could say you're using data. So how do you talk to customers when they say, "Hey, AI magic or real? How do I grok that?" How do I figure it out? >> I think it's an important advancement, but we can't be distracted by words we place on things that have probably been around for a little while. It's an important way to think about the technology, and I think even Steve mentioned it on stage. But I think we're helping customers be smarter and empowering them to be able to leverage data in an easier way, and that's what we have to do. Help them, and I know this is talked a lot, not take the human and the people factor out because that's still required, but we're going to help them be able to concentrate on what they do best, whether it's, I don't want to have to diminish my creative team by hiring a bunch of data scientists. We don't want that. We want to be able to help brands and companies still focus on really understanding customers. >> You know, AI may be almost as old as Superman. >> Catherine: (laughing) I think you're right. >> Yeah, because it all comes back to Turing's test of whether or not you can tell the difference between a machine and a human being, and that was the 1930s. >> Well, neural networks is a computer science. It's a great concept, but with compute and with data these things really become interesting now. >> Peter: It becomes possible. >> Yeah, and it's super fun. But it promotes nuanced things like machine learning and Internet Of Things. These are geeky under-the-hood stuff that most marketers are like, uh what? Yeah, a human wearing a gadget is an Internet of Things device. That's important data. So then if you look at it that way, AI can be just a way to kind of mentally think about it. >> That's right, that's right. >> I think that's cool for me, I can deal with that. Okay, final question, Catherine, for you. >> Catherine: Yes. >> What's the most important thing that you think folks should walk away from Modern CX this year? What would you share from this show, given that, on the keynote, CMO Summit, hallways, exhibits, breakouts, if there's a theme or a catalyst or one? >> Peter: What should they put in the trip report? >> It's all about the people. I think that, if I were to distill it down, you think about that word bubble chart, that's people. I think that's the biggest word that came out of this. As much as technology is important, it's going to enable us, it's going to enable our people, and it's going to put a lot of attention on our talent and our folks that are going to be able to take our customers to the next level. >> And then people are the ones that are generating the data too, that want experiences, to them. >> Catherine: That's right. >> It's a people centric culture. >> Catherine: It is. >> Catherine Blackmore here on site, The CUBE, at Modern CX's The CUBE, with more live coverage here from the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas, live after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas! It's the CUBE, covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017, brought to you by Oracle. >> Welcome back, and we are here live at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas for Oracle's Modern CX. I'm John Furrier with Silicon Angle. This is the CUBE and my co-host, Peter Burris here for two days of wall-to-wall coverage, day two. Doug Kennedy, Vice President of Business Development and Partner Strategy of Oracle, former Oracle, left Oracle, went to NetSuite, now back at Oracle running partners... Great to have you on the CUBE. >> Yeah great to be here. >> Thanks for joining us. We were just talking before we rolled live about some of the history and some of the dynamics in the industry, and it's a very interesting time, because the partner landscape is becoming a critical linchpin for this digital transformation as the vendors get Cloud and the suppliers become "Cloudified" if you will. The roll of the partners is beyond strategic, it's actually technical. >> Well you've got to look at actually the expertise that you need to actually work with the customer. Always sit in the customer's seat and look back at the vendors and the partner eco-system to determine what they need to be successful. And candidly, we bring part of it as Oracle, partners bring the rest of it, whether it's industry expertise, vertical expertise, they deeply understand agencies, whatever that expertise is, we have to figure out the right partnership with them to go be successful together, and that's the trick, and that's why partners are so important right now. >> And what's the message and focus here at Modern CX? Obviously it's not just pillars of solutions, it's, you got a little bit of a unification, you have this Modern CX, who's got a platform (mumbles). What's the conversation like with partners here? >> So, the ones that I've been having this week... So I've been back all of seven weeks, so I'm rolling out a new partner strategy pretty quickly here, and I introduced it to several of our top partners here this week, and it really is to specialize and focus on the prioritization you can bring to our partnerships. That it's back to specialization. I roll everything back, I've done partnering for, good lord, a couple of decades now. The number one question is, How do we both be profitable? We're in partnerships actually each make money and win together. So back it up to that and look at how they specialize, and don't get too thin, don't get too wide, but look at what you're successful at doing as a partner, and for us to then figure out how to work together in that partnership to go win. So I've been amplifying that up with the partners this week. You'll fail if you're spread too thin and trying to be everything to everyone, and I'm pushing the partners to make sure they bring that to the forefront with us first, before we actually go engage the prospects and customers. So I'm kind of backing up again with a lot of these partners. >> So it's not a general purpose philosophy? >> Doug: Nope. >> It's really, find some swim lanes... Everyone's got a unique specialty, I mean PWC has got their thing, now Deloitte, Accenture, they all kind of have their swim lanes developing, but specialism, it seems to have much more domain expertise, now I was talking to Accenture CTO of analytics, Jean-Luc Chatelain, and they have tons of data scientists. They're coding away! Before they used to be project managers, now they got coders, so seeing that transformation, is that also a dynamic you're seeing? >> Yeah, definitely seeing that. If you look at our eco-system, we've got a little over a thousand partners right now that focus on OMC, the Marketing Cloud. They're ISV's, they're the old traditional SI's shifting into more manage services vein, and still doing implementations. Then you get the agencies, which is unique in and of itself because they're running on behalf of their customers. They understand the marketing industry deeply, so now they're taking our solutions and running on behalf of customers, but they're also a partner type. So it's determining which type you are, and some, by the way, are all three. So how do we work with them most effectively? Cause this is a co-sell model. >> And what's the plan? Can you give any details to the strategy? >> Well the strategy is, first of all, there is an ideal partner profile for each of those partner categories. And to replicate that, the programs we're putting in place, we want more of those that fit what I call the ideal partner profile, which comes, at the end of the day, they're going to be profitable, we're going to be profitable. But if you look at the agency model, you know, how do they actually have the reach in coverage with the customers that they currently actually service? How can we actually work with them to introduce our solutions into that product mix that they already use in their managed operations environment? How do we make sure we're bringing that to the forefront in a way that values the agency's business and then also values their customers? Right? So that's unique just 'cause we're in a sense dealing with two customers. We're dealing with the agencies as a partner who's running on behalf of their customers, but we have to have a solution that fits that equation. Think of it that way. >> But there's something else going on, I want to test you with this. >> Sure. >> That is, it used to be that the traditional partner model, you know, the on-premise orientated partnership model was that the partner was a channel partner, they might embed their software on top of the product, et cetera, but Oracle could be good, and the partner could be good. If Oracle's really good and the partner's okay, it still could work out. This more deeply integrated world where data is the asset, and how you flow it and the speed with which it flows, and the degree to which you can show that end to end coherence is going to determine winners or losers. That means that whoever is the weakest link is the weakest link for every, or sets the quality for everybody to a degree. How is that going to change the way you talk to partners? Because they're going to have to step up their game in a big way for Oracle to be able to step up the game. >> Right, now great question. So we have a co-selling model first of all, right? We have indirect in certain markets--Japan and some of the southeast Asia markets are indirect-- so we will rely on the partners to do most of the selling as well as the delivery and managed services. The rest of the world's co-sell. So with our co-sellers, half of the equation is our own people, so I'm doing a couple different things. First of all, on our side, we're defining roles and responsibities of co-selling and making sure that our own sales people know, not who to engage, how to engage the partner. Going back to the basics of how early you pull them in, do you have them do pre-sales? Do you do pre-sales? Who does the demos? Basically through the entire sales cycle, defining roles and responsibilities. And taking that same set of rules to the partners. So we actually have ground rules on how we want to engage through the sales cycle. The last, and this important point, the last thing you want is for the partner and our own sales rep to meet each other in the prospects lobby at the 11th hour of a sales cycle. We're trying to fix that, but more importantly you raised a really good point. What am I asking the partners to step up and do? We're just putting in place, depending on the partner type, six different criteria, there's also a seventh criteria, that I'm measuring our best partners by. It's around capability to execute locally on both pre-sales and technical implementations and operations. I'm looking at revenue, I'm looking at number of customer ads so you're not just out shooting elephants once a year, but you're also bringing in a volume with us. I'm looking at references. That's the proof in the pudding, that you're capable of maintaining that environment and you're helping your customers derive the most value out of the service and solution. And then the last one is really looking at are you in an industry in a vertical and can you bring that to the forefront effectively in co-selling. So I'm putting a bar out there that says, these are the criteria, you've got to get to over this bar to be one of the partners I take into my co-selling engine and promote you to my sales force. So extremely prescriptive on who we're going to co-sell with. >> So it's sales synergy, not conflict. >> Doug: Exactly. >> So you're trying to identify hand-in-glove kind of fit points. >> Doug: Defining how and who. >> Let me offer one other one and see if this resonates with you, make one other suggestion, is that especially for partners that are part of the Cloud mix, have you talked about end-to-end performance, end-to-end effectiveness, end-to-end efficiency, and start to benchmark some of these partners and say, you're doing okay, but we got other folks over here who (crosstalk). I mean the time of execution, the number of errors that are generated, all these other things, because we're now talking about an integration that is not just in the marketing function, not just in the selling function, not just in the service function, but in the execution. That that's where the customer's going to determine whether the partnership is working. Are you starting to look at some of those measures as well? >> Yes, so the back end of this, I'm now looking at a report that says where are we churning? Where are we actually having down sales, in other words the subscription's not renewd at the same level, and I'm correlating that report for the first time back to the associated partner. Then I could sit back down with them and say, look, we're correlating you to a certain percentage of churn, what do we need to do to fix this? Is it better education? Are you not focusing on the whole life cycle of the customer? So we'll be able to come back at that with the partners as well. We haven't done a very good job of that, candidly. It's kind of the front of the sale, move through, get 'em running and then once in a while we turn up to make sure they're delighted, and that they're renewing. You can't do that any more. >> The interesting thing that you're getting at is, I hate to say, eat your own dog food or drink your own champagne or whatever you want to call it. You guys are saying here, use data and change business practices. >> Doug: Exactly. Exactly. >> So you're going to look at the data and bring that in, but the data model is first, if I hear you correctly is, identify clearly your parameters for ideal partnership. >> Doug: Yup. >> On a profitable win/win scenario. >> Yup, who we're working with, and then define how we're working together so our field can effectively co-sell with them. >> Okay so what's the reaction? I mean, the agency I can see has a potential, a lot of moving parts there, so I think that's challenging in general, just agencies are different than more committed partners, (mumbles), I don't mean to put down the agency, but agencies have a lot of moving parts. >> Doug: Yeah. >> What has been the reaction from agencies and the other different types of partners? >> And this is literally this week for the past three days have been meeting with a lot of the top partners. >> John: Standing ovation? >> They're very pleased, they said we want this approach. 'cause candidly if I say, Look, here's why I'm going to bet on you and here's why I'm going to work with you, you can invest ahead of the curve. Most partners aren't going to invest ahead of the curve. They kind of look in the rear view mirror and go, Yeah I got a couple of deals last month, I'm going to maybe start adding capacity. I could say, Look we're committing to you in these regions in these areas and here's how we're working together. It gives them more confidence to start investing ahead of the curve with us. And that's the best, you don't want them lagging behind the demand. >> And what about the swim lanes we talked about, I call swim lanes, you said specialty? Because that seems to be on the partner, not saying, well you could bring a lot to the table and say, here's how we think you might be fit based on the parameters, but that's a transformation that the partners are going through. Are you being proactive in recommending? Are they coming to you? They seem to be kind of in swim lanes... >> If you leave it up to the partner, they'll come to you. And I swim in every lane and I do everything. In a past life, what I was able to do and I've done a little bit now we're going to finish this job, I was able to run transactions through D & B for the past three years of my partner system. And partners would say, I play in every industry and every vertical, and I'd bring data back and say, actually, no you don't. Here's where you focus. >> John: They hope to be in every vertical. >> Right, they want to, they want to, and that's how they fail, they spread themselves too thin. But we come back with the data to say, look, here's where your references are, here's where the majority of your revenue has come from. I'm going to promote you in these swim lanes. You can move into another swim lane over time, but let's focus here. And we've done that. We've actually, we're about 95% through this exercise over the past six weeks. I've taken some of the maps back to some of the partners to say, here's where we believe we're going to win with you. That's an exercise we're going to finish over the next couple of months, and it'll evolve over time, but those are going to be the swim lanes. I'm glad you use that, I use that privately. Which swim lanes are they in and how do I promote those to be the swim lanes my co-sellers are going to work with them on? And that's the way we work. By the way, it helps them with capacity too. If I'm missing somebody in a swim lane, I will first of all try to take somebody out of the lane and get 'em into an adjacent lane for capacity. They like that, instead of just bringing somebody new in. >> I mean I always say the partner business is pretty straight forward, it comes down to money right? What's in it for me, I want to make some cash. Profitability is really important. I think it's cool that you're being transparent about it, saying, hey we're in business to make money, let's just put that on the table. 'Cause, they're going to posture and, at the end of the day, it's what's in it for me? >> I still think that this notion of moving from a product orientation to a service orientation which Cloud describes means a churn, CX, those types of measures, at the end of the day if Oracle's going to win, it has to be able to demonstrate to the marketplace, our eco-system operates better than anybody else's eco-system. >> Doug: Right. >> And starting to bake some of those measures and bake some of those ways of thinking into the relationship so the partners are lifting their game up, it's going to be really crucially important. >> Well the eco-system thing is going to be tested by the fact that, at the end of the day, at least my experience in talking to customers and experience in dealing with the partners, is at the end of the day, the 11th hour sales conflict is ultimately the indicator of if it's working or not. If this conflict with the customer and trust, like, wait a minute, this guy's not going to deliver, that's an undertone that, if that sentiment's there, it's not working. If it's working, pass, shoot, score! Everyone's happy! Sales guy gets comped on the Oracle side, feeding more business to the partner, you know this is a relationship where it flows to the good partners. >> Right, that's why you don't deal with... all thousand can play in the eco-system, but you place your bets on the top ones and get that right, and that's where your growth is going to come from. >> John: It's gamification. >> Also, also, think of it another way is that, I'd rather give the next dollar to one of my top partners that fits my ideal partner profile and can drive growth with me, than to give it to the person on the tail end of the tail, because they can't turn that same dollar into more revenue together. The guys at the top of the pyramid are more capable of reinvesting in our business. >> And the emerging ones that have an ascention vision of sending up and to be a partner will see the cash being doled out and will align... >> And we're going to be transparent of where the bar is. You want to get there? Here's the things you've got to be able to do. >> Right, and how are you guys helping them with any kind of soft, this is to say, partners say, hey Oracle, thanks for the mentoring thanks for the clarity, I really want to be in the swim lane, and I'm willing to invest. What are you going to do for me? >> So the education and training for them... Some of them, as we look at their profile and how successful they are, we will grandfather them in to certain lanes as well. Like, this isn't, go off into a dark room and prove to me you're successful and pop your head up and I may like you. We're going to still look at that next trench of partners that want to get above that bar and work with them, because if we get them over the bar we'll be successful, we'll be more successful, so we have to help them through training and education and enablement as well to be able to do that, and some opportunities to participate in different marketing programs and campaigns. >> Well you're a pro. It's good to co-sell and it's challenging, and it's got a great, I like the formula. Seven days in... >> Doug: Seven weeks. >> Seven weeks in. What's your feedback on the show? Thoughts? >> No this is very good. It's good for a variety of reasons. Obviously the customer focus is extremely good. The other thing it does for our partners is it gives them a chance to network. Because a customer doesn't just buy one solution from one partner. Typically our sales involve three or four partners at times. It gives them a networking opportunity and I'm trying to aggregate those solutions together into more of a complete offering, and we're just one part of that equation. So these type of events help those partners network together and we drive some of that networking as well. >> Doug Kennedy. So next year when we're sitting on the CUBE at a location, maybe here, maybe somewhere else, what's success in your mind for one year out in terms of in your mind's eye, what do you want to see happening, envision happening for next year's event? >> Well a stake in the ground for our own eco-system is we've doubled the impact of our co-selling through our top line with partners. That's a pretty big challenge, but that's what I'm committing to. It's a big net that we're going to go after. But also here you're going to have a partner eco-system, to be blunt, they're more profitable. They're doing better. They actually want more. I would argue we're going to have more people attending here from my partner eco-system next year, hungry for more information and more opportunities to work together. That's success. >> You're going to grow it up top line and grow the eco-system. >> Yup, and other partners that are not part of that growth, wanting it. 'Cause if you make some poster children, the rest are going to want more of that. So we'll see more of a herd mentality start. >> Doug Kennedy in charge of Business Development and Partners here at Oracle on the CUBE. I'm John Furrier with Peter Barris. We'll be back with more live coverage after this short break.

(energetic music) >> Voiceover: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, Covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017. Brought to you by Oracle. (upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back and we are here live in Las Vegas at Mandalay Bay Convention Center for Oracle's Modern C-EX, Modern Customer Experience Event. Part of Oracle Marketing Cloud, I am John Furrier with SiliconANGLE. My co-host Peter Burris, head of research at Wikibon.com. Our next guest is Adrian Chang, director of customer programs at Oracle Marketing Cloud, also emcee of the Markie and big part of that program. Congratulations on the success of the Markie's awards, which were given out last night. I read your blog post on the site this morning. >> Thank you >> Great to see you again and welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me, always great to be here and I love Modern Customer Experience and that marketing is a part of it. >> It's really been a great transformation this year. The simplification of just now narrowing it down to one simple value president, Modern Customer Experience, which encapsulates a lot of stuff. Quickly review what that is and then let's talk about the Markies. >> Absolutely, so I start with the Markies and so we have a history of celebrating excellence in data-driven modern marketing. So, this program has grown tremendously over the past 11 years. When I look at the submissions, they're customers that are focusing on acquisition and loyalty retention. And they read these stories all the time and spend weeks preparing the submissions. So this event is all about how can we share our intent to have our customers have a good experience as part of Oracle and then how can we help them delight their customers in delivering experiences and create value at every touch point. >> One of the thing I really like about the change in the name from Modern Marketing Experience to Modern Customer Experience is you move from the process, the function, to the outcome and the result. So how are the Markies reflecting that this year? >> Absolutely. So if you think about where we started, again it was six categories celebrating excellence in B2B marketing and reaching folks behind a single device, their laptop computer. So cut to 2017, the customers' preferences, their activities are fluid. So great marketing requires you to use a series of channels to reach them everywhere. And so, marketers have to balance brand with action, and then also deliver on intent. So the Markies have had to evolve to think about the habits. So the account-based marketing team of the year was a new award that we gave out that really represented the intent. Are people actually doing this, we have tons of great stories. So we have to balance out a bit of the usage of the product and the technology and embracing the new strategies and what's current within the marketplace. >> So the future of marketing as it goes into data, that's been the theme here. All of our interviews, day one. And certainly the key notes, even Mark was giving a great specific example. Now data is at the heart of it. Adaptive intelligence is the theme. You can see the dots are connecting the convergence of where the Markies are showing traction are some pretty interesting use cases. Any notables you'd like to share that kind of highlight that data piece? >> Absolutely. So our winner for best email campaign was from Jetstar and they're an airline in Austraila. What's great is they have been able to find ways to-- so when you get an email about travel, sometimes you book at one particular point and your preferences and relationship with that airline may change. Your travel destinations may change. So the fact that they can optimize the information at the time of send, sending the weather, curing you to maybe upsell and look at other opportunities to have a pleasant experience, that's amazing. So Laura Ipsen spent some time talking about how we at Oracle are looking to evolve preferences, so going from one to many, to one to one, and the hallmark which is one to you. And I think the Jetstar campaign, they use Oracle responses as a perfect example of that. The first award that we gave out was to Covance for account-based team of the year and by doing, setting up an account-based marketing strategy, putting it in place, getting all the stakeholders in sales in place, getting the discipline on the content. They were able to increase their engagement with key accounts by a significant margin. And they were delighted to be among those that are partners to celebrate that achievement. >> Adrian, I want you to talk about, for the folks that are watching who aren't here, the buzz in the hallways, because the hallways is always a good conversation, certainly the lunch table as well. I'll include that technically at the hallway, but people sitting down. >> Absolutely. >> AI has been front and center, but it's not being painted over, white-washed, "Oh! AI! It's hot so let's jump on the bandwagon." There's some real tech involved. What has been the reaction from customers in used cases that you hear in the hallways? >> Customers are excited about it. I think for a lot of our customers had the opportunity to hear Mark Heard talk about it. Where he embraced and said, "If you think about AI at the core, it's computing done real fast to help people make really rich decisions about what to do next." And so, I think our customers are still grappling with all the technology and how to get value out of their core platforms, how do they deliver on their initial objective and then we have a subset of our most mature, most excited, who are starting to put those data plots together, and start getting more predictive and allow the machine to do the work for you. But in order for you to have, to even think about it, you've got to have great, you've got to fill the cup with great data. And I think people are still getting there so that the machine isn't biased and you don't make the wrong decision about how to treat your customers. >> So just notable trending tweets I wanted to share with you, and again, get your reactions, because this is speaking to the customer in used case. One was from a part from our digitizing panel, Mark wrote "According to digitize, if you're not looking to use chatbots and AI, you're going to be out of business hashtag MME17", a little bit of that, legacy there. And then hashtag Modern CX. And the other one is, "Netflix is a great example of a company creating content combined with powerful AI targeting programs." Little bit of sample of some of the things we're seeing. Chatbots. It's a new interface. It's a new way to use data. Netflix content, which modern marketers need content in this platform. Picking a Netflix approach. So, kind of begs a question. Chatbots? Netflix? Kind of modern. Email? Old? So how do you get a marketer to get you to use the reliability of hardened critical infrastructure, like email, not going away anytime soon but, it's going to be one dimension of Netflix. Content marketing. Binge watching. All this content out there. Netflix and chatbots interface. Your thoughts? >> So my thought is I am, so I was in the room when I watched the chatbot piece and I loved the fact of the, we could live in a world where we could have a fluid customer experience anywhere. You can ask a question. I also support our communities where you ask a question and know you're automatically going to get an answer to the algorithm. So that delivers on that one to you scenario. So I'm super excited about it. When I look at the Netflix example, even to get the information on what the recommendation engine should be, you still need a lot of data. And you still need to know what are the habits of your customers who even land on that decision tree. So I love the fact that folks are thinking Netflix and thinking content, but that chatbot thing, oh my goodness. When people start doing that I can't wait to see those customers that win those Markies. >> Peter: But they have to do it right. >> They have to do it right. >> One of the dangers that marketing always faces is the idea that it's all about collecting information, having the customer give something to me and not giving something valuable in return. >> Adrian: Absolutely >> And the challenge that I see with chatbots is, and I think you agree John, is are chatbots going to be used to further automate information collection at the expense of really presenting value. The new marketing, the Modern Customer Experience, has to be focused on are we delivering value with the customer at every single interaction, not is the customer doing more for us inside of marketing. What do you think about that? >> So I agree. Cause if we do not know that we are creating value and that we're not, that we're adding friction into the problem, you pour that into your algorithm, there's going to bias. And so then, you can't make a decision about how to feed information into the machine and not have the right information that says we don't have the right region, we don't understand the behavior across all products. You can't have bias in the model at all. It has to be complete for you to then look at your customer base holistically. >> Yeah, we don't want to better automate bad marketing practices. >> Adrian: Absolutely. >> We want to use these technologies to continuously drive to use a famous person's parlance a more perfect union between this marketer and the buyer. >> Adrian: Absolutely. >> John: Well you got a great article up on Martechseries, "This year has gone above and beyond, fully leverage and most innovative marketing technology to create customer centric campaigns that deliver outstanding results that Laurie has spent, Senior Vice President Chairman." Okay that's obviously marketing packaging for the quote, from PR, but what she's getting at is customer centric. Again this is the theme, multitude of technologies now in the platform. Very interesting. Are customers responding well to this platform and are they seeing the need to stand up thing quickly in these campaigns? >> Adrian: Absolutely. They are finding that there's more pressure to get interim value. They are absolutely buying into the platform message and we have quite a few customers who also were recognized for the use of multiple products and multiple partner related applications. And so we're actually seeing a nice trend in both. To do great marketing, part of the messaging, or part of Laura's talk track from today was people are freaked out about the data but if you find a way to harness it, you'll create experiences where you'll stop chasing the customers. They'll start chasing you cause you'll find the right way to have the conversation with them. >> And word of mouth gets around too. I'm going to ask you to pick your favorite child of the awards. Was there one that jumps out, without alienating all the winners. Is there one that you like? >> This is a really, really hard question for me. As you know I read all the submissions, I play a heavy role in writing the speech. So it's really hard. >> John: Here we go, the preamble, not picking one. Here we go! I don't like to pick my favorite child. No parent likes to do that. >> I don't like to pick my favorite child. This is a really, really hard thing. >> Okay, audience favorite? >> How are they different this year from last year? How about that? Or is there something general that shows, that kind of reinforces some of this customer experience or are you seeing a progress in how the Markies are evolving? >> Yeah, that's a great question. So I'm happy to answer that one. And so for the first time since 2012, we brought back the dinner. And so having the Markies and our customer celebration, it shows our intent as Oracle Marketing Cloud, for our customers as well. That we love and want them to have a great week and want to celebrate their accomplishments and get other people to the winning circle. So being at a table and feeling that energy, getting that opportunity to sit with an executive or sit with a member of a team is a really, really great lift to then come to an event with over 4,000 people and feel warm and feel included. So I think that was an important part, that was a huge feel. I mentioned that we added a account-based team of the year award. Again, you couldn't be in B2B marketing and hide from account-based marketing. It's everywhere. We also delivered an overall customer experience award, so we had two customer-related awards and we created one category. I personally the videos, so our best video submission categories won where the viewers got to pick. And I would say the reaction of Juniper taking home two trophies last night, if I had to pick one, because that one had bit of a go to it. >> Peter: Juniper? >> Juniper Networks. >> Really? >> John: Two awards. >> They won two awards last night. I loved their reaction as well as the reaction of our folks from Brazil. You know, really, really great stories from their use of data. We also had Chris Diaz, our leader of the year, who not only led really strong customer experience transformations across marketing, sales, and service. >> This is the CMO of Time Warner? >> Uh no, that's Kristin. >> Kristi? >> Uh yeah, that's Kristin at Time Warner. I'm talking about Chris Diaz who is also driving sustainability efforts in Africa. It's really transformational. Huge, huge advocate of Oracle. As is the team at Kenya Airways. There's some really feel good moments. There are really exciting moments, you can feel it. People were hugging each other. People were laughing. People brought their own noise cannons and sparklers. >> Who doesn't love an awards show? When you're giving out great trophies? >> You know, we always get the comparison to the Oscars, and so this year it felt like the Golden Globes. >> So you handed out the wrong award. >> So you had a couple of times when the winner, when the wrong winner was >> We actually did not have that but we actually did joke about it. We embraced it. So Kayla Sullivan helped us with the awards distribution. And that was fun. The trophy itself is actually made by the same designer who makes the Emmy. And I believe I said that last year. But the feel was more like the Golden Globes. There was refreshments and opportunity to have there. >> John: It was well done. It looked great on photos. Big crowd. You had the jibs and all the cameras. Great camera angles. >> We had a drone do the delivery so we played with some new drone deliveries >> John: That's the next one up on Amazon delivering your packages by drone, you know, dropping in. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. So we had one delivered via tweet and then we had one that was delivered via drone and so we covered all their risk management pieces in advance. And I'm just super happy that InVision, who partnered with us in hosting and producing the event, were able to get some of these things cleared. So our intent was let's be futuristic, let's be digital, let's be now. And they managed to incorporate that into the show for us. >> Well, Adrian. Congratulations on all the great work with the Markies and continued success. What's next next year? What do you guys look, I know, processing, you got to have a little fun now. Relax a little bit. But as you look forward to next year's Markies, you're watching, you've got your submission. It's kind of like the college admissions. You want to know who the judge is. Here he is. What are you looking for for next year? Have you though about it, any ideas? Random thoughts? >> Yeah, it's a great question. It takes us about seven months to actually plan. To sit down and actually plan our calendar from submission peer, the content. And so, we tend to create the categories that are aspirational. So we likely will figure out what's the best way to incorporate the trend. Get them out early to drive customers to get really excited about what's next. We're talking about AI now. What will we be talking about in six months? I'm looking forward to to hearing more customers share about the value their getting from Marketing Cloud, the new channels that they're using, how they've overcome barriers within their organizations to do new and great things. And really focus on taking these stories and telling them all year. >> And that's speed and empowerment. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Adrian Chang. Here in theCUBE back with Markies update with great commentary. Great to see you. Looking great, love the outfit. Lookin' good, as always. Thank you for taking the time and sharing your perspective. >> Thanks for having me. >> Peter: Took me a while to figure out what that was though The flower. What is that thing? From here it's like >> It's good. Looks good on you. Adrian Chang, here inside theCUBE bringing all the Markie action, all the great coverage. It's theCUBE. We'll have more live coverage after the short break. (energetic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube! Covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017. Brought to you by Oracle. (light, upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live in Las Vegas at the Mandalay Bay. This is the Cube. Silicon Angle's flagship program, where we go out to the events and extract the noise. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Peter Burris, Head of Research at Silicon Angle, Wikibon.com. And our next guest is Steve Krauss, Group Vice President of Product Management for Oracle Marketing Cloud. Great to see you again, welcome back to the cube. >> Thank you John. >> So a lot of great announcements today. I want to just jump into it. First of all, you've got a great job. You've got the product side. You've been busy this year, so congratulations. Some announcements I want to get your reaction to that we saw today. The Adaptive Intelligence, love that. I love how it speaks to the data in motion, real time needs of applications. >> Peter: 150 milliseconds >> 150 milliseconds boot shot. We got that on the queue, so it's on the record. It's going to be good, it's going to be good. And also the chat bot thing, which big fan of chat bots as an illustration of what's coming. Not so much as chat bots by themselves, but it does speak to the new user interactions, the new interfaces, new ways to notify and inform as part of that experience. This is some heavy tech, so I want, the first question is AI. Everyone seems to be washing thereselves. Oh, we've got A.I. >> Yeah, Yeah. >> Well that's just predictive analytics, that's been done before. >> Steve: M-Hmm. But Augmented Intelligence or Artificial Intelligence and Neural Networks have been around for a while. What are you guys doing specifically on the product side? Because this is super exciting announcements, to make Adaptive Intelligence work, what's the key tech? >> Steve: Yeah, Well there's a couple things. In fact, I think often when people talk about AI, they want to go immediately to the algorithms and think that somehow that is the only secret sauce. And the reality is, you know, like a lot of things in the world of computing, you put bad data into one of these things and you get bad results out. You put good data, you get good results. You put better data, that's when things start getting really interesting. And so one of the neat things about the marketing version of Adaptive Intelligence is called Adaptive Intelligence Offers, is that it has the ability to not just take the data that the marketer has, but it can reach into something called the Oracle Data Cloud and get additional data to drive better signal into the AI algorithms to make them run better. So we're bringing a data advantage to the table, and then probably as you've heard from the AI apps people, there's already a heritage at Oracle for building these real time decisioning systems. And so you've got these algorithms that are real time, that can adapt every click, update themselves, make the models go better. If you've tracked data mining for a long time, data mining contests, honestly the winner in second place is usually a very small margin. We think really that data piece is going to be the thing that's going to be the biggest differentiator. Because there's a lot of smart people with really great adaptive algorithms. So we're bringing both to the table. >> John: Okay, data or algorithms, there's always been the chicken in the egg syndrome. >> Yeah. >> Is it algorithms or the data, data or algorithms? A lot of people are voting in the crowd, that conversation we're involved in, data trumps algorithms. >> Steve: I would vote that way as well. I think there's far greater variance in what you can do with data if you collect it in a smart way. And in the case of Oracle, we've assembled this massive data cloud. It's not something someone else can casually do. The reality is with a lot of the algorithms, Google's open sourcing a lot of tents are slow, and so we'll see. I mean, it's not like we are chumps with the algorithms. We take that stuff very seriously, but the data itself just make everything more better. >> John: But the right tool for the right job is the same premise, you articulate for algorithms. Pick your tool, pick your algorithm, but if you don't have the data, you're SOL anyway. >> Peter: As you've mentioned John, the algorithms have been around a long time. What's new is that we now have so many more data sources, so we have data for the first time. >> John: And massive compute. >> And now we have massive compute that can be set up easily, so we actually do something with it. I want to point out, I want to test ya on this, we had Jack Berkowitz on honorly which is the source the 150 millisecond. Jack noted that Oracle aspires to be able to have the right answer anywhere in the world inside 150 milliseconds. Which is an amazing, amazing vision, and for most people who think of the cloud, they think of data flying all over the place. >> Steve: Yeah. For you guys, Jack said something very interesting, and I want to, as a proof point, Jack said, "Yeah but sometimes you don't have to move the data." >> Steve: Yes. >> And one of the advantages that you guys have, I think, which is what I want to test you on, is that by having a relatively complete, installed set of capabilities, you have that primary person data-first person data, and there is an advantage to not having to move it. Could you just articulate that a little bit? What does that... >> John: Is that true? >> First of all, is that true, and what kind of possibilities does that open up for Oracle and Oracle customers if it is true? >> Steve: Well yeah, I think you are onto something. Oracle obviously has the long heritage of having many enterprises and government's data in Oracle systems already in the first place. And those investments have been made. And so when you start talking about, "Let's add to that, let's add applications like Adaptive Intelligence offers." Well instead of saying we have to do these massive data transfers it may well be the case at this point that that data is resident an Oracle data center in the first place, and of course Oracle owns its own data centers. These are all world wide, so there's a bunch of advantages to the Oracle scale here. And one of them is that we don't have to move the mountain. Right? The mountain is already in the Oracle database, and we can go and put these services next to it that allow an ease of integration. And John, we were talking about this before we started here. It matters to make this stuff work fast when its a year long project to see if maybe its going to fly. That's no longer a reasonable thing, and so agility matters. Having the data where you already need it is great. >> John: Well and also the trend is system of record database and mountains of corpuses of stuff that you can tap into which you are pointing out, but also, I believe that the winner of all this will use a term that's used in the cloud industry: Standing Up Apps. >> Steve: Uh-huh. And I think that one of the things that's very clear to me if you look at the SAS marketplace where it's, and I think Mark Hurd said this, "There is no past, it's a SAS." So, in infrastructure, so and you kind of see in the separation, you have to have stuff done in weeks-apps. And I mean literally, not months, weeks. >> Steve: Yeah. >> And I would argue that minutes become it. So with that as a backdrop, how do you look at microservices? Because now, if look at, out of the move the data, so I might want to compose something and send it somewhere else, and move an app to the edge of the network or have a retail lab or do something in email. So now I can compose an app from data here and then move it so that brings up orchestration, microservices, and some of these cloud native concepts. How do you guys deal with that? >> Steve: Yeah, well let me give you the marketing part of this in terms of the Oracle Marketing Cloud. Because there are so many parts of Oracle, they have their own versions. For us, one of the big things we want is to have this concept called Orchestration that says if I'm a marketer, I should be able to reach my customer wherever he or she welcomes my messaging. These days, it no longer is just email. These are people who getting mobile messaging, they're potentially interacting with things like chat bots, it's become very fragmented. And so what Oracle wants to do is provide these Orchestration systems that allow apps plug in some that we build, but others that third parties build. So that as this complexity increases and there's more ways you can communicate, we can keep up with this in an agile way either ourselves or with others who do this really well. So that's one of the theories. >> John: It's the marketing cloud plus it's broader Oracle suite-cloud suite. >> Steve: Beautiful, yes. It's the Oracle Cloud suite which includes Oracle CX. It also includes something that we call the Oracle Marketing App Cloud, which is this third party ecosystem. Because we're Oracle, we have a lot of customers, we have hundreds of companies that say, "Yeah, I would love my stuff to get in the hands of Oracle's customer base." The way I'm going to do it is I'm going to make a turn key integration. So that when they buy it from me, they can just request turn it on for Oracle, and it will, again as you said, "Don't make it weeks, make it minutes." It's minutes when the integration is already done. >> So software business Larry Ellison, founder of Oracle, still around one of the legends of the industry. Larry, if you're watching, you're still hanging around, taking names and kicking butt. Started off with shrink wrap software, then download on the internet, then you SAS, now you have SAS plus coming on. Which is smarter apps, smarter customer experience. So it begs the question on this next journey for customers, it's going to be really cloud all the way right. >> Steve: Yeah. >> So you're going to have to have this cloud component, you guys have a strategy there. Isn't Oracle moving away from, a smarter CX's data by the way, so Oracle's no longer a software company. You're a data company. >> Steve: M-hmm. >> Data is eating the world. Yeah no, software is eating the world, which Marc Andreessen wrote, now data is eating software. >> Steve: Uh-huh. How do you view that because some people say that software is never going to go away. But data is becoming much more of a front burner issue, vis-a-vis just like software was in software development. >> Steve: Sure, well I think some of this is just semantics as where software leave off and data begin. But a great example is the thing you talked about earlier, Adaptive Intelligence, where part of the power of this, what makes it different from what you can get elsewhere is that it comes with data included that is different data then is available from anyone else. And so, in fact, you know Oracle, when it made the big investment in the data cloud, people I think thought, "What are you doing, you just set up a vending machine for data? Is that what Oracle's going to be about?". And the answer there is no. I mean there is a good data business, but where it gets profound is when that strategic asset, all that data, all of the sudden enables new products like Adaptive Intelligence Offers to be fundamentally different than came before. >> John: It's an enabling technology. >> It can be absolutely, yes. >> John: Data is enabling. It brings to life apps and then offers new apps opportunities. That's what you said. >> Steve: Yes, and marking data very much is the fuel for the marketing engine. So you get richer fuel, you will get richer results. >> John: Alright, so we're getting down the weeds here, so bottom line, let's up level it up for the person that's watching and saying, "Hey, I got the message." >> Steve: Yeah. >> "Data is super important." >> Steve: Yeah. Bottom line, what is happening this week here in Modern CX that's important for the person that has to scratch their head, isn't inside the ropes in the industry? What's going off of their world? What should they be thinking about? How should they be planning their life moving forward in this new modern era of marketing? >> Steve: Yeah, so I think the big things announced this week definitely involves things like a new level of being able to do recommendations of offers and products using the Oracle Data Cloud. It involves conversational user interfaces such as the new chat bot's platform. And in the case of the marketing cloud, we've got a series of products that have come out that allow a greater degree of self service for both marketers as well as their stakeholders like sales people. So how does the sales person get the output of a marketing automation system? Sales people aren't necessarily known for assiduously going and looking for marketing assets. We've got some new things around, for example, content portals. We've got some new things around features that let people be more autonomous in getting their own work done rather than needing to go to some other system somewhere. >> John: Awesome. And the customer we had on this morning from Royal Philips, really was the head of CRM. So customer relationship management is not a new concept obviously, you guys have a big chunk of business there in the software side of it. But customer relationship management, that is marketing cloud now >> Steve: M-Hmm. >> and customer experiences. So you're starting to see that really go to the next level. What's the big take away for the person at home? Watching in their businesses as they go on their journeys. How should they be thinking about the customer relationship? >> Peter: Well, that's a big question. I think for a CRM oriented person who maybe started out in something like database marketing, where you had a list, and you somehow try to learn about people on the list, that world has gotten a lot bigger now. Where it used to be you learned about someone once they became your customer. These days, though various advertising technologies, you can learn about people you don't yet know, but you know of their existence. And you can start creating that relationship, hoping to draw them in maybe with ads to the point where they do self identify. So there's this whole front end to CRM that is showing up in ad tech with things like DMP's-Data Management Platforms, that solve the same problem, but do it in these whole other realms. >> John: And new channels. Adaptive Intelligence, I think, is an awesome position. Love that Adaptive Intelligence Apps, Apps being stood up on a platform. You guys have it. >> Steve: Yes. >> Where's the next level? Take us through, you run the product rode map. You know, share with the folks, what's on the road maps? What should they be expecting more from Oracle, where are you going to be doubling down, where's the work you filling the white spaces, and what should they expect of the next year? >> Steve: Sure. Well, at least in my key note this morning which again focused on marketing, we had four themes. One was intelligence, we already talked about that one quite a bit. Another is mobile, and that's not just mobile like chat bots, but it's actually mobilizing the experience of our customers' customers for the marketing. So example of this, we have a product called the Eloqua which lots of email can be sent. They have a new email designer that inherently builds responsively designed emails. So those are the ones you open up on your phone that look good, you open on the desktop they look good. That's how it all should work. Unfortunately, it's not for a lot of folks today. So just having that be part of the tooling, big deal. So that's the mobile part. We talked a bit about self service, that's theme number three. And the fourth theme is actually a bit of a sleeper, it's about taking another pass through some of the core technologies we already have that people use the most, and being able to find... >> John: Like what? >> Maximizer a test and targeting a personalization tool. Used by a lot of our customers, the fundamental thing you do inside maximizer is you live in a campaign designer. And it allows you to adjust various parts of a webpage for testing, targeting, and personalization. We've got an entirely new way to do that that's based on an analysis of what do people do when they use this and how can we shave off some number of clicks per session? How can we make it less error prone when people are deciding what to do? How can we make more performant? You talked about 150 milliseconds, how about if we just eliminate the save button altogether so that anything you do automatically saves in the background. You don't have to reload anything. That kind of stuff comes from watching people use the product and realizing, wow, they're in there all day long. If we can just make all of those things a little better, over a course of a year, that's huge. >> John: So basically, we're looking at the core jewels and the platform and making it simpler, reducing the steps to do things, just end up being more efficient in some of the proven tools. >> Steve: Exactly, and in the speech this morning, we said, "Hey look, we don't talk about this enough." >> John: That's not a sleeper that's good. >> The tendency is to come out here, and we all want to talk about everything that's new like AI and the people who are our actual customers. They're seeing pearls rain from the sky when all of the sudden something that took them 12 minutes to do at a time now takes eight, and they do that 2000 times a year. >> John: I always say it's a great business model by, you know, making things simpler, reducing the time to do things and steps >> Steve: Yeah >> and making things intuitive and easy to use. Which it sounds like you're doing, but now let's talk about the glamor side of it. Because I think AI and chat bots speaks to the future, what other glam do you see happening out there right now? Obviously, AI is hot right now. >> Steve: Yeah, I think the other glam at this point is a little more speculative at least as it applies to my area with marketing like Augmented Reality, Virtual Reality, and so on. There's also internet of things. Certainly that world is changing. There are more devices of various types that can talk to the network. We've got a customer, you may be familiar with it, a sleep number bed company, the ones that have the bed where you can pick your number. That's actually a connected device, and so there's some interesting things that can be done there with careful discretion about what data you're collecting. But when we started thinking about, incidentally, so many things that in the past used to be a inert objects are generating data. That can feed into various applications whether it's marketing or other areas. >> John: And more data's coming in, it's just not stopping. >> And it's great for Oracle because if Oracle is good at anything it's good at dealing with very large scale data. That's been the business for a long time, and the trend won't change. There will continue to be larger and larger scale data. >> Steve, final point, what's the theme of the show this year besides the messaging that you have? What do you seeing that's happening here that's evolving? What's the top story here? >> Steve: Well, you know we did a customer advisory board meeting here for the marketing cloud, and I think if I were going to ask the customers what their top story is, I think their top story is they themselves want to continue becoming more customer centric. Everybody talks about it. Well of course, we should be that way. But so many companies grew up doing things like focusing on the thing we're selling, they're being offer centric. And so organizationally changing, using the technologies like we have so they can create the kinds of experiences, we call them the connected customer experience that they themselves want to have. It's a bit challenge, and so their permissions are to say transform ourselves to be from the tech down to the organizational incentives, truly customer centric. >> John: Steve Krauss, Group Vice President of Product Management Oracle Marketing Cloud. Great to see you. Thanks for sharing the insight of the real road map and all the exciting stuff happening here and your clean up this morning, congratulations. I'm John Furrier and Peter Burris. More live coverage coming up here at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas with the Cube after this short break. (live upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017, brought to you by Oracle. (bright, lively music) >> Hello and welcome back to a CUBE coverage of Oracle's Modern Customer Conference here at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE, theCUBE, with my co-host this week, Peter Burris, head of research at Wikibon.com, part of SiliconANGLE Media, and our next guest is Austin Miller, Product Marketing Director for Oracle Marketing Cloud. Welcome to theCUBE conversation. >> Thank you very much for having me. >> This coveted post-launch spot. >> Yeah, we have a lunch coma kicking in, but no, seriously, you have a really tough job because you're seeing the growth of the Platform Play, right, really robust horizontal platform, but how you got here through some really smart acquisitions but handled well, and integrated, we covered that last year. You guys are seeing some nice tailwinds with some momentum certainly around the expectations of what the customers want. >> Yeah, I think that one of the best things when we start thinking about, to your point, product integration, it's also the way that we are talking to our customers about how they can use the products together. It's not really enough just to have maybe one talk to another, but unless we prove out the use cases, you don't get the utilization, and I think this year what we've really seen is getting those use cases to actually start getting some traction in the field. >> So this integrated marketing idea seems to be the reality that everyone wants. >> Where are we on that progress bar, because this seems to be pretty much unanimous with customers, the question is how to get there, the journey, and the heroes that are going to drive and the theme of the conference. But the reality is this digital transformation is being forced for business change. >> Austin: Absolutely. >> And marketing is part of that digital fabric. >> I think that one of the most interesting things about this is if you look at kind of the history of when did the stacks start becoming actually part of the story, it was at a point where we didn't really necessarily even have the capabilities to do it. As a result many marketers who thought they were maybe buying into a stack approach got a little bit burned. I think now we are actually at that place where that value is not only something that they can see inherently and say "oh, I'd like all these applications to talk together," but it's actually feasible, it's something that they're going to be able to use, and they can be optimistic about, frankly. >> Where are they getting burned, you mentioned that, from buying into a full stack of software for a point solution, is that kind of what you meant? >> No, I think that in the marketing realm, when you're talking to marketers, it is very easy to think about all the horrible things that they have to deal with on a daily basis, all these problems. And the reality is that oftentimes you've had to have this conversation with them that says, you know, there are not going to be easy answers to hard problems. There are usually hard answers to hard problems. We can help alleviate some of that friction, especially when we start talking about data silos or things about interoperability, so being able to not just have integration, but pre-built function within these particular platforms, but realistically, it just wasn't something that we necessarily in the market in general were able to deliver on until somewhat recently. >> So, I am very happy that I heard you use the word "use cases," especially at a launch, because that's been one of the biggest challenges of both marketing technology when we think about big data, there's been such a focus on the technology, getting the technology right, and then the use cases and how it changed the way the business or the function did things, kind of either did or didn't happen. Talk about how a focus in use case is actually getting people to emphasize the outcomes, and how Oracle is helping people then turn that into technology decisions. >> This may sound almost counterintuitive, but in reality the way that use cases we see helping us the most is that it really helps spur about the organizational changes that we need in order to actually have some of this happen, 'cause it's very easy to say, "we have all this technology marketer and you should be using it all," but if you don't actually prove it out and how that's going to impact let's say the way that they're creating their marketing messages, on even a kind of not exciting basis, like how are you creating your emails, how are you creating your mobile messaging, how are you doing your website, and then start talking about those in actual use cases, it's very hard for people to organize their organizations around this kind of transformation. They need something tangible to hold onto. >> And the old way with putting things in buckets, >> Austin: Exactly. >> Right, so so hey we got one covered, move on to the next one ... >> Peter: Or by channels even. We got an email solution, or we got a web solution and as the customer moves amongst these different mechanisms, or engages differently with these mechanisms, the data then becomes, we've talked a lot about this, becomes the integration point, and that as you said affects a significant change on how folks think about organizing, but what do you think are going to be some of the big use cases if people are going to be ... you're providing advice and counsel to folks on the 2017. >> Yeah, so I think that talking about marketing-specific use cases is really important, especially when we start thinking about how am I using my first-party data that I may have within a particular channel. And I'm using that to contextually change the way I'm communicating to somebody on another channel. But if we kind of take that theme, and we think about let's not just expand it to marketing but let's really talk about customer experience, because as a customer, I go in-store, I go on email, I go on your mobile app, I don't view those as different things. That's just my experience with your brand. And even as we start getting to maybe some of the service things, am I calling a call center? The way that we're really thinking about marketing is not only bringing all this information across our traditional marketing channels, but how are we helping marketers drive organizational change beyond the traditional bounds of even their own marketing department into service, into sales, into on-store, because in reality that's where kind of the next step is. It's not just about, to your point, promotional emails. It's about how are we bringing this experience across the full spectrum. >> So it's really how is first-person data going to drive the role of marketer differently, the tasks of marketing as a consequence, and therefore how we institutionalize that work. >> Absolutely, and I think that you can see this in the investments that we've made in the ODC, Oracle Data Cloud. It's first step, let's start thinking about how we can start moving around on first-party data, that'll be a nice starting point, but then afterwards, how are we taking third-party data let's say from offline purchases, starting to incorporate that and that store's third-party data, 'cause then we really start getting to that simultaneously good experience or at least consistent experience across digital, across in-store, we start piecing together, but we really need to start at that baseline. >> A lot of people have been talking about the convergence of adtech and martech for years, and we had a CUBE alumni on our CUBE many years ago, when the Big Data movement started to happen, and he was a visionary, revolutionary kind of guy, Jeff Hammerbacher, the founder of Cloudera, who's now doing some pioneering work in New York City around science. He's since left Cloudera. But he said on theCUBE what really bothered him was some of the brightest minds in the industry were working on using data and put an ad in the right place. And he was being kind of critical of, use it for cooler things, but we look at what's happening on martech side, when you have customer experience, that same kind of principle of predictive thinking around how to use an asset can be applied to the customer journey, so now you bring up the question of A.I. If you broaden the scope of adtech and martech to say all things consumer, in any context, at any given time, you got to have an A.I. or machine learning approach to put the right thing at the right place at the right time that benefits the user >> Austin: It's not scalable. That's the reality of it. To you point, if you're going to start thinking about this across all these different channels, including advertising as well, the idea of being able to do these on a one-off basis, from a manual perspective, it's completely untenable, you're completely correct, but to that point, where you're talking about the best minds in the industry maybe dedicated to figuring out, "if I put a little target here, am I going to get somebody to click on that ad one time, or how am I placing it," that is very much the way that we were at the very beginning parts of marketing technology, where it was bash and blast messaging, how can we just kind of get the clicks and the engagement, and how do we send out >> John: spray and pray >> Exactly. And now I think that we are getting to a much more nuanced understanding of the way that we advertise because it's much more reliant on context, it's not just how can I get my stuff in front of somebody's eyeballs, it's how am I placing it when they're actually showing some sort of intention for maybe the products I already have. >> Adaptive intelligence is interesting to me because what that speaks to is, one, being adapted to a real time, not batch, spray and pray and the old methodology of database-driven things, no offense to the main database cache at Oracle, but it's a system of record, but now new systems of data are available, and that seems to be the key message here, that the customer experience is changing, multiple channels, that's omnichannel, there needs to be ... everyone's looking for the silver bullet. They think it's A.I., augmented intelligence or artificial intelligence. How do you see that product roadmap looking, because you're going to need to automate, you're going to need to use software differently to handle literally real time. >> Completely. I think that this is a really important distinction about the way that we view A.I. and how it factors into marketing technology and the way that I think a lot of people in the industry do. I think that once again this theme of there aren't easy answers to hard problems, it is very pleasant to think that I'm just going to have one product that's going to solve everything, from when I should send my next email, to if there's clean water in this particular area in a third-world country, and that's just something that maybe sounds nice, but it's not necessarily something that's actually tangible. The way that we view A.I. is it's something that's going to be embedded and actually built into each of these different functions so that we can do the mission-critical things on the actual practical level, and kind of make it real for marketers, make it something that's isn't just "oh, buy this and it will solve all your problems." >> So I'm going to ask you the question, the old adage, "Use the right tool for the right job, and if you're a hammer everything looks like a nail." A lot of people use email marketing that way, they're using it for notifications when in reality that's not the expectation of the consumer, some are building in a notification engine separate from email. All that stuff's kind of under the covers, in the weeds, but the bigger question to you is, I want to get your insight on this because you're talking to customers all the time, is as customers as you said need to change organizationally, they're essentially operationalizing this modern era of CX, customer experience, so it's a platform-based concept which pretty much everyone agrees on, but we're in the early innings of operationalizing this >> Austin: Oh yeah. >> So how do you see that evolving and what do you want customers to do to be set up properly if they're coming in for the first inning of their journey, or even if they're midstream with legacy stuff? >> I think that that's a really good perspective, because you don't want to necessarily force people to go through excruciating organizational change in preparation if we're in maybe the first inning, but it is really just about setting up the organization to adjust as realistically we get into the middle innings and into the later innings. And really the kind of beginning foundation of this is understanding that these arbitrary almost like tribal distinctions between who owns what channel, who's the email marketer, or who's the mobile person, they need to be broken down, and start thinking about things instead of these promotional blasts to your point, or even maybe reactionary notifications. How is this contributing to the number of times your brand is touching me in a day, or the way that I'm actually communicating, so I think that it's an interesting kind of perspective of how we were organizationally set up for that, but the short answer is that A.I. is going to fundamentally change the way that marketers are operating. It's not going to fundamentally change maybe everything that they're doing or it's not going to be replacing it. It's going to be a complementary role that they need to be ready to adjust to. >> So you are, you're in product, product management. >> Austin: Product marketing >> Product marketing. So you are at that interface between product and marketing, both moving more towards agile. How are you starting to use data differently and how would you advise folks like you in other businesses not selling software that might not have the same digital component today but might have a comparable digital component in the future, what would you tell them to do differently? >> So, I think that the first step is to actually have an honest assessment of what we have and what we don't have. I think that there's a lot of people who like to kind of close their eyes or maybe plug their ears and just sort of continue down the path of least resistance. >> Peter: Give me ... >> Oh, an honest assessment of what kind of data we do have today, what kind of data we might actually need, and then most importantly, is that actually feasible data to get. Because you can't >> you can wish it but you can't get it >> You can wave a magic wand and say these are the numbers that I need on this particular maybe interest level of these particular ... >> John: The fatal flaw is hoping that you're going to get data that you never get, or is ungettable. >> Or, this is really something that I think a lot, would resonate more with marketers is that we have now set up all these different points of interaction that are firehoses of data spraying it at me, I may be able to retroactively look at it and maybe garner some kind of insight, but there's just no real way for me to take that and make it actionable right away. It is a complete mess of data in a lot of these organizations. >> And that's where A.I. comes in. >> Austin: Absolutely. It's able to automate that, reaction ... >> Peter: Triage at a bare minimum. >> Correct >> So the first starts with data. What would be the second thing? >> So it's data, presume that you're going to need help on the triage and organizing that data. Is there a third thing? >> I would say that you're going down the right path with the steps there, but once again, we're all talking about these concepts that do require a great deal of specialization and a lot of actual understanding of the way we're dealing with data. So honest assessment is definitely that first part, but then do I have the actual people that I need in order to actually take action on this? Because it is a specialized kind of role that really hasn't traditionally been within marketing organizations. >> I know you guys have a big account-based, focus-account-based marketing, you know, doing all kinds of things, but I'm a person, I'm not a company, so that's a database saying "hey, what company do you work for?" And all the people who work for that company and their target list. I'm a person. I'm walking around, I've got a wearable, I might be doing a retail transaction, so the persona base seems to be the rage and seems to be the center and we heard from Mark Hurd's keynote, that's obviously his perspective and others as well so it's not like a secret, but how do you take it to the next level? An account base could help there too, but you need to organize around the person, and that seems to open up the identity question of okay, how do I know it's John? >> I think that goes beyond just personal taste, but into what does this person actually do at this company, because I can go in and give a headspinning presentation to maybe a C-level executive and say, "look at all this crazy stuff you can do," and meanwhile the guy who might be making the buying decision at the end of the table's looking at that and being like, "there's no way we can do that, we don't have the personnel to do that, there's no chance," and you have already dissension from the innards of the actual people who are making the buying decisions. The vision can't be so big that it resonates with no one. And you need to understand on a persona level what is actually resonated with them. 'Cause feasibility is a very important thing to our end user, and we need to actually incorporate that into our messaging, so it's not just so pie-in-the-sky visioning. >> I did a piece of research, sorry John, I did a piece of research a number of years ago that looked at the impact of selling mainly to the CIO. And if you sell successfully to the CIO, you can probably guarantee nine months additional time before the sale closes. >> Austin: Yeah. Because the CIO says "this is a great idea," and then everybody in the organization who's now responsible for doing it says "hold on, don't put this in my KPIs while I take a look at it and what it really means and blah blah blah. Don't make me responsible for this stuff." You just added nine months. >> Absolutely. I even have a very minute example for something that we rolled out. This was a great learning opportunity. Because we rolled out a feature called multi-variant testing. It's not important what exactly it is for the purposes of this, but basically it's the idea of you can take one email and eight versions of it, test it, and then send out the best one. Sounds great, right? I'm an executive, I'm like boy, I'm going to get every last ounce of revenue from my emails, I'm only going to send out the best content. If you don't pitch that right, the end user, all they hear is wait, the thing that I do one of, I have to create eight of now? Am I going to get to see my kids ever again? That's just the way you have to adjust ... >> And seven of 'em are going to be thrown away. I'm going to be called a failure. >> Exactly. So it's just not something that you can take for granted because marketers have a variety of different roles and a variety of firm responsibilities. >> And compound that with everything's going digital. >> Exactly. >> So (mumbles) Austin, great to have you on theCUBE. Spend the last minute though, I'd like you just to share for the last minute, what's the most important thing happening here at #ModernCX besides the simplicity of the messaging of modern era of customer expectations, experiences, all that's really awesome, but what should people know about that aren't here, watching. >> I'd just say that the one thing that at least resonates most with me, and this is once again coming from a product and sort of edging on marketing, is that the things that we've been talking about with not only A.I. but even just simple things like having systems that are communicating to each other, they're actually real and we're seeing that as real. You can actually see them working together in products and serving up experiences to customers that we're even doing now as part of the sales process and saying "hey, this is how you would actually do this," as opposed to just "here's our Chinese menu of different options. Pick what you want and then we can just kind of serve it up." Because I think that there's something that's very heartening to maybe marketers who have a little bit of, I don't know, doubt about whether or not this is real. It is real, it's here today, and we're able to execute on it. >> And that's the integration of a multi-product and technology solution. >> I would almost say that it's slightly different from that though, in terms of, it's not just integration of these pieces, it's integration that's pre-built, so we actually have it pre-built together and then we also have these tremendous, new, innovative features and functionality that are coming with those integrations. It's not just portability, it's actual use cases. >> Would you say that it's as real as the data? >> It's as real as the data. I think that that's ... >> If you have the data, then you can do what you need to do. >> That's a very, a very good point. >> Austin Miller, Product Marketing Director at Oracle Marketing Cloud. Thanks for sharing the data here on theCUBE where we're agile, agile marketing is the focus. I'm John Furrier, Peter Burris. More coverage from day one at Mandalay Bay for Oracle Modern Customer Experience show. We'll be right back with more after this short break. (bright, lively music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco it's The Cube covering Oracle OpenWorld 2016 brought to you by Oracle. Now here's your host, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Hey welcome back everyone. We are live in San Francisco at Oracle OpenWorld 2016. This is SiliconANGLE, the key of our flagship program. We go out to the events, extract a signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, Co-CEO of SiliconANGLE with Peter Burris, head of Research at SiliconANGLE as well as the General Manager of Wikibon Research, our next guest is Siddhartha Agarwal, Vice-President of Product Management and Strategy of Oracle Cloud Platform. Welcome back to the Cube, good to see you. >> Yes, hi John. Great to be here. >> So I've seen a lot of great stuff. The core messaging from the corporate headquarters Cloud Cloud Cloud, but there's so much stuff going on in Oracle on all the applications. We've had many great conversations around the different, kind of, how the price are all fitting into the cloud model. But Peter and I were talking yesterday in our wrap-up about, we're the developers. >> Siddhartha: Yeah. >> Now and someone made a joke, oh they're at JavaOne, which is great. A lot of them are at JavaOne, but there's a huge developer opportunity within the Oracle core ecosystem because Cloud is very developer friendly. Devops, agile, cloud-native environments really cater to, really, software developers. >> Yeah, absolutely and that's a big focus area for us because we want to get developers excited about the ability to build the next generation of applications on the Oracle Cloud. Cloud-native applications, microservices-based applications and having that environment be open with choice of programming languages, open in terms of choice of which databases they want, not just Oracle database. NoSQL, MySQL, other databases and then choice of the computeship that you're using. Containers, bare metal, virtual environments and an open standard. So it's giving a very open, modern easy platform for developers so that they'll build on our platform. >> You know, one of the things that we always talk about at events is when we talk to companies really trying to win the hearts and minds of developers. You always hear, we're going to win the developers. They're like an object, like you don't really win developers. Developers are very fickle but very loyal if you can align with what they're trying to do. >> Siddartha: Yeah. >> And they'll reject hardcore tactics of selling and lock-in so that's a concern. It's a psychology of the developers. They want cool but they want relevance and they want to align with their goals. How do you see that 'cause I think Oracle is a great ecosystem for a developer. How do you manage that psychology 'cause Oracle has traditionally been an enterprise software company, so software's great but... Amazon has a good lead on the developers right now. You know, look at the end of the day you have to get developers realizing that they can build excellent, fun creative applications to create differentiation for their organizations, right, and do it fast with cool technologies. So we're giving them, for example, not just the ability to build with Java EE but now they can build in Java SE with Tomcat, they can build with Node, they can build with PHP and soon they'll be able to do it with Ruby and Daikon. And we're giving that in a container-based platform where they don't necessarily have to manage the container. They get automatic scalability, they get back up batching, all of that stuff taken care of for them. Also, you know, being able to build rich, mobile applications, that's really important for them. So how they can build mobile applications using Ionic, Angular, whatever JavaScript framework they want, but on the back end they have to be able to connect these mobile apps to the enterprise. They have to get location-based inside and to where the person is who's using the mobile app. They need to be able to get inside and tell how the mobile app's been used, and you've heard Larry talk about the Chatbot platform, right? How do you engage with customers in a different way through Facebook Messenger? So those are some of the new technologies that we're making very easily available and then at the end of the day we're giving them choice of databases so it's not just Oracle database that you get up and running in the Cloud and it's provision managed, automated for you. But now you can ask for NoSQL databases. You can have Cassandra, MongoDB run on our IaaS and MySQL. We just announced MySQL enterprise edition available as a service in the Public Cloud. >> Yeah one of the things that developers love, you know, being an ex-developer myself in the old days, is, and we've talked to them... They're very loyal but they're very pragmatic and they're engineers, basically they're software engineers. They love tools, great tools that work, they want support, but they want distribution of their product that they create, they're creators, so distribution ultimately means modernization but developers don't harp too much on money-making although they'd want to make money. They don't want to be abandoned on those three areas. They don't want to be disloyal. They want to be loyal, they want support and they want to have distribution. What does Oracle bring to the table to address those three things? >> Yeah, they're a few ways in which we're thinking of helping developers with distributions. For example, one is, developers are building applications that they exposing their APIs and they want to be able to monetize those APIs because they are exposing business process and a logic from their organization as APIs so we're giving them the ability to have portals where they can expose their APIs and monetize the APIs. The other thing is we've also got the Oracle Cloud Marketplace where developers can put their stuff on Oracle Cloud Marketplace so others can be leveraging that content and they're getting paid for that. >> How does that work? Do they plug it into the pass layer? How does the marketplace fit in if I'm a developer? >> Sure, the marketplace is a catalog, right, and you can put your stuff on the catalog. Then when you want to drag and drop something, you drop it onto Oracle PaaS or onto Oracle IaaS. So you're taking the application that you've built and then you got it to have something that-- >> John: So composing a solution on the fly of your customer? >> Well, yeah exactly, just pulling a pre-composed solution that a developer had built and being able to drop it onto the Oracle PaaS and IaaS platform. >> So the developer gets a customer and they get paid for that through the catalog? >> Yes, yes, yes and it's also better for customers, right? They're getting all sorts of capability pre-built for them, available for them, ready for them. >> So one of the things that's come up, and we've heard it, it was really amplified too much but we saw it and it got some play. In developer communities, the messaging on the containers and microservers as you mentioned earlier. Huge deal right now. They love that ability to have the containerization. We even heard containers driving down into the IaaS area, so with the network virtualization stuff going on, so how is that going to help developers? What confidence will you share to developers that you guys are backing the container standards-- >> Siddhartha: Absolutely. >> Driving that, participating in that. >> Well I think there are a couple of things. First of all, containers are not that easy in terms of when you have to orchestrate under the containers, you have to register these containers. Today the technology is for containers to be managed, the orchestration technology which is things like Swarm, Kubernetes, MISO, et cetera. They're changing very rapidly and then in order to use these technologies, you have to have a scheduler and things like that. So there's a stack of three or four, relatively recent technologies, changing at a relatively fast pace and that creates a very unstable stack for someone who create production level stuff for them, right? The docker container that they built actually run from this slightly shaky stack. >> Like Kubernetes or what not. >> Yeah yeah and so what we've done is we're saying, look, we're giving you container as a service so if you've already created docker containers, you can now bring those containers as is to the Oracle Public Cloud. You can take this application, these 20 containers and then from that point on we've taken care of putting the containers out, scaling the containers up, registering the containers, managing the containers for you, so you're just being able to use that environment as a developer. And if you want to use the PaaS, that's that IaaS. If you want to use the PaaS, then the PhP node, JavaSE capability that I told you was also containerized. You're just not exposed to docker there. Actually, I know he's got a question, but I want to just point out Juan Loaiza, who was on Monday, he pointed out the JSON aspect of the database was I thought was pretty compelling. From a developer's standpoing, JSON's very really popular with managing APIs. So having that in the database is really kind of a good thing so people should check out that interview. >> Very quickly, one of the historical norm for developers is you start with a data model and then you take various types of tools and you build code that operates against that development for that basic data model. And Oracle obviously has, that's a big part of what your business has historically been. As you move forward, as we start looking at big data and the enormous investment that businesses are making in trying to understand how to utilize that technology, it's not going as well as a lot folks might've thought it would in part because the developer community hasn't fully engaged how to generate value out of those basic stacks of technology. How is Oracle, who has obviously a leadership position in database and is now re-committing itself to some of these new big data technologies, how're you going to differentially, or do you anticipate differentially presenting that to developers so they can do more with big data-like technologies? >> They're a few things that we've done, wonderful question. First of all, just creating the Hadoop cluster, managing the Hadoop cluster, scaling out the Hadoop cluster requires a lot of effort. So we're giving you big data as a service where you don't have to worry about that underlying infrastructure. The next problem is how do you get data into the data lake, and the data has been generated at tremendous volume. You think about internet of things, you think about devices, et cetera. They're generating data at tremendous volume. We're giving you the ability to actually be able to use a streaming, Kafka, Sparc-based serviced to be able to bring data in or to use Oracle data intergration to be able to stream data in from, let's say, something happening on the Oracle database into your big data hub. So it's giving you very easy ways to get your data into the data hub and being able to do that with HDFS, with Hive, whichever target system you want to use. Then on top of that data, the next challenge is what do you visualize, right? I mean, you've got all this data together but a very small percentage is actually giving you insight. So how do you look at this and find that needle in the haystack? So for that we've given you the ability to do analytics with the BI Cloud service to get inside into the data where we're actually doing machine learning. And we're getting inside from the data and presenting those data sets to the most relevant to the most insightful by giving you some smart insights upfront and by giving you visualizations. So for example, you search for, in all these forms, what are the users says as they entered in the data. The best way to present that is by a tag cloud. So giving you visualization that makes sense, so you can do rich discovery and get rich insight from BI Cloud service and the data visualization cloud service. Lastly, if you have, let's say, five years of data on an air conditioner and the product manager's trying to get inside into that data saying, hey what should I fix so that that doesn't happen next time around. We're giving you the big data discovery cloud service where you don't have to set up that data lab, you don't have to set up the models, et cetera. You could just say replicate two billing rows, we'll replicate it in the cloud for you within our data store and you can start getting insight from it. >> So how are developers going to start using these tools 'cause it's clear that data scientists can use it, it's clear that people that have more of analytic's background can use it. How're developers going to start grabbing a lot of these capabilities, especially with machine learning and AI and some of the other things on the horizon? And how do you guys anticipate you're going to present this stuff to a developer community so that they can, again, start creating more value for the business? Is that something that's on the horizon? >> You know it's here, it's not on the horizon, it's here. We're helping developers, for example, build a microservice that wants to get data from a treadmill that one of the customers is running on, right? We're trying to get data from one of the customers on the treadmills. Well the developer now creates a microservice where the data from the treadmill has been ingested into a data lake. We've made it very easy for them to ingest into the data lake and then that microservice will be able to very easily access the data, expose only the portion of the data that's interesting. For example, the developer wants to create a very rich mobile app that presents the customer running with all the insight into the average daily calorie burn and what they're doing, et cetera. Now they can take that data, do analytics on it and very easily be able to present it in the mobile platform without having to work through all the plumbing of the data lake, of the ingestion, of the visualization, of the mobile piece, of the integration of the backend system. All of that is being provided so developers can really plug and play and have fun. >> Yeah, they want that fun. Building is the fun part, they want to have fun-- >> They want relevance, great tools and not have to worry about the infrastructure. >> John: They want distribution. They want their work to be showcased. >> Peter: That's what I mean about relevance, that's really about relevance. >> They want to work on the cool stuff and again-- >> And be relevant. >> Developers are starting to have what I call the nightclub effect. Coding is so much fun now, there's new stuff that comes out. They want to hack with the new codes. They want to play with some that fit the form factor with either a device or whatnot. >> Yeah and one other thing that we've done is, we've made the... All developers today are doing containers delivery because they need to release code really fast, right. It's no longer about months, it's about days or hours that they have to release. So we're giving a complete continuous delivery framework where people can leverage Git for their code depository, they can use Maven for continuous integration, they can use Puppet and Chef for stripping. The can manage the backlog of their task. They can do code reviews, et cetera, all done in the cloud for them. >> So lifestyles, hospitality. Taking care of developers, that's what you got to do. >> Exactly, that's a great analogy. You know all these things, they have to have these tools that they put together and what we're doing is we're saying, you don't have to worry about putting together those tools, just use them. But if you have some, you can plug in. >> Well we think, Wikibon and SiliconeANGLE, believe that there's going to be a tsunami of enterprise developers with the consumerization of IT, now meaning the Cloud, that you're going to see enterprise development, just a boom in development. You're going to see a lot more activity. Now I know it's different in development by it's not just pure Cloud need, it's some Legacy, but it's going to be a boom so we think you guys are very set up for that. Certainly with the products, so my final question for you Siddhartha is, what's your plans? I mean, sounds great. What're you going to do about it? Is there a venture happening? How're you guys going to develop this opportunity? What're you guys going to do? >> So the product sets are already there but we're evolving those products sets to a significant pace. So first of all, you can go to cloud.oracle.com/tryit and try these cloud services and build the applications on it, that's there. We've got a portal called developer.oracle.com where you can get resources on, for example, I'm a JavaScript developer. What's everything that Oracle's doing to help JavaScript developers? I'm a MySQL developer. what's everyone doing to help with that? So they've got that. Then starting at the beginning of next year, we're going to roll out a set of workshops that happen in many cities around the world where we go work with developers, hands on, and getting them inside an experience of how to build these rich, cloud-native, microservices-based applications. So those are some of the things and then our advocacy program. We already have the ACE Program, the ACE Directive Program. Working with that program to really make it a very vibrant, energetic ecosystem that is helping, building a sort of sample codes and building expert knowledge around how the Oracle environment can be used to build really cool microservices-based, cloud-native-- >> So you're investing, you're investing. >> Siddhartha: Oh absolutely. >> Any big events, you're just more little events, any big events, any developer events you guys going to do? >> So we'll be doing these workshops and we'll be sponsoring a bunch non-Oracle developer events and then we'll be launching a big developer event of our own. >> Great, so final question. What's in it for the developer? If I'm a developer, what's in it for me? Hey I love Oracle, thanks for spending the money and investing in this. What's in it for me? Why, why should I give you a look? >> Because you can do it faster with higher quality. So that microservices application that I was talking about, if you went to any other cloud and tried to build that microservices-based application that got data from the treadmill into a data lake using IoT and the analytics integration with backend applications, it would've taken you a lot longer. You can get going in the language of your choice using the database of your choice, using standards of your choice and have no lock-in. You can take your data out, you can take your code out whenever you want. So do it faster with openness. >> Siddhartha, thanks for sharing that developer update. We were talking about it yesterday. Our prayers were answered. (laughing) You came on The Cube. We were like, where is the developer action? I mean we see that JavaOne, we love Java, certainly JavaScript is awesome and a lot of good stuff going on. Thanks for sharing and congratulations on the investments and to continuing bringing developer goodness out there. >> Thank you, John. >> This The Cube, we're sharing that data with you and we're going to bring more signal from the noise here after this short break. You're watching The Cube. (electronic beat)

>> Voiceover: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE! Covering Oracle OpenWorld 2016, brought to you by Oracle. Now here's your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Welcome back everyone, we're here live in San Francisco for Oracle OpenWorld 2016. This is SiliconANGLE Media's theCUBE, our flagship program We go out to events and extract the signal noise. Three days of coverage, wall to wall, ending up day one right now. Wrapping up amazing day. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Peter Burris. Our next guest is Senior Vice President of Oracle Cloud, Steve Daheb. CUBE alumni, great to see you again! >> I have four times, four time alum. >> (Mumbles) the MVP award for most times on theCUBE. You've been there almost for a couple years now. >> Yeah. >> Peter: Yeah, you and Alec Baldwin. (laughter) >> Yeah, less than two years, it's exciting. >> So you are working hard. Last time I saw you like, you have to be running harder. You're running harder. >> Yeah, we were in DC together. >> You've been running really hard, so congratulations. Saw the numbers, 70% growth percentage. Not numbers, I don't remember the eh, four billion. >> Numbers are getting bigger, percentages are still going up, so it's good. >> Percentages are double digits, but the real big thing is that you guys now are putting a dent into the awareness of Oracle being a viable and competing opportunity against Amazon Web Service. Larry Ellison said "Amazon, your lead is no more." Which was a headline in SiliconANGLE. So question, how are you guys continuing to differentiate yourself against AWS and Microsoft? >> I think there's three things. One is we differentiate when we look holistically in cloud. 'Cause you know you talk about cloud, and people define it in multiple different ways. Some say oh, Salesforce is cloud, or Amazon is cloud. And we define it as really requiring all three layers of the stack. So Software as a Service, which we can talk about. Platform as a Service, which is that core database middleware application development. And then the Infrastructure as a Service. And we're seeing at some points all these things are interrelated. When does past-op and IS begin? What's a discrete IaaS motion and how does that move to sort of production databases and different things? And so we first and foremost differentiate by looking holistically at what we're offering, and then sharing that we have a complete portfolio that's also open and provides choice to customers in terms of how to deploy it. >> Holistic, end to end holistic or holistic breadth? >> I think it's both. So we look at where we go deep into all layers of the cloud, and then we'll look holistically around a hybrid solution that allows people to deploy in cloud and on prem. And that's where we can differentiate with Amazon. So you know, at a technology perspective, Larry announced some incredible things in terms of we have the benefit of coming in and re-defining what an IaaS architecture looks like and provide scale and performance as well as cost. We provide choice in terms of, look, if I deploy something on Amazon, I can't actually move that back to what's on prem. You can't actually have isolated orphaned sort of instances on public cloud without tying that back to what's on prem. And then you just look at some of the database examples. It's a fork of an old code. I mean, it's not compatible with anything so I can run Oracle database on Amazon, I can run Oracle database on Oracle, I can run Oracle database in Microsoft. I can run Amazon on Amazon. I can't inter-operate with DV2, with SQL, with Oracle, with Teradata, so I think we're just sort of trying to demystify a little bit of what's going on out there. >> But one of the ways was talk about work loads moving between on prem, that's going to get that right 100% across the board. >> Absolutely. >> It's interesting, but I got to ask you. Larry Ellison said on the earnings call last Thursday after Safra and then Mark Hurd made their announcements and man, sounded like things were going amazing. The earnings call was like woohoo, oh my God, the Kool-Aid injection! Then Larry got on, but he said a really cool thing I wanted to just drill down on. He said we're not even getting started yet. We are playing the long game is what he's obviously saying. But he made a comment about Microsoft. He said Microsoft is already well into moving their install base and apps onto Azure. >> Yeah. >> And Oracle hasn't even begun getting started. Now, I'm sure you started, but implying significantly that a lot of the database customers and customers haven't really moved there yet. Is that true? How would you (mumbles). >> It's actually interesting, 415 Research just actually published a study and they said only 6% of workloads are actually running in public cloud infrastructure today. And IDC just actually put out a note that said only 6% around database and analytics. So I think we're actually showing up with the right solution at the right time. And we have 4,000 database customers, we're in a great position to move them to cloud. >> So is Larry right, that a large portion haven't moved yet, and Microsoft, larger have moved? >> Yeah, I think that the majority hasn't. I think that the analogy he was drawing is think about Microsoft that can move their office suite. Take 365 and move that to cloud, or things like SharePoint and move that to cloud. I think what he's saying is look at that analogy in terms of who's in the best position to migrate these database customers to cloud, and we believe Oracle is. And again, it is early days overall. There's a lot of noise about what the cool kids are out there doing, but when you think about it, 90% of these. >> The cool kids are making money. >> The cool kids are making money, Oracle is making money too. >> Of course, that's what I brought a (mumbles). You had a question, sorry to interrupt. >> Well yeah, no, really quickly. So in many respects, it sounds like what you're saying is that you can do what Amazon can do, but Amazon still can't do what you can do. >> Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think we're coming out and saying look, if you look at it, the application layer, they don't have anything. And so again, we have core ERP, HCM, supply, sales, service, all these things that we've shipped it to cloud. We actually do 45 billion transactions a day and support 30 million unique users weekly on our cloud. We're a viable cloud. These are core financial systems that companies use to run their business. We've been running in cloud for a while. We have the PaaS layer, our database, our middleware, the analytics, the security, things like IOT, that's core to Oracle's DNA. And then yeah, you have this commodity compute infrastructure. If you look at Amazon, 86% of their business is still about commodity compute. So we can offer that for customers as part of the overall solution. And I know they've been talking about getting it to the database so I would say stay tuned to what Larry has to say tomorrow on that. But we believe holistically when you look at all the pieces, we provide that solution that those 95% of workloads that haven't moved to cloud yet actually really need. >> So that brings up a good point. Cloud world, you mentioned DC where we had your special event, theCUBE was broadcasting live in DC. There all up on youtube.com/siliconangle. >> Shameless plug, shameless plug. >> Of course, get that last minute in there. But I want to ask you (mumbles) you announced the Cloud at Customer >> Yeah. >> So what's the status of that, 'cause we get lost in the slew of announcements here at Oracle OpenWorld. What's the update? Doing well? Reaction from customers? >> It's doing really well. It actually solves a big, again, that problem we talked about. I want to consume public cloud services, but I might have regulatory data sovereignty sort of industry or it might just be my own internal governance that's not going to allow me to deploy that, consume public cloud services on somebody else's cloud, but I can consume it with Cloud at Customer. >> Is it a transition point, because they feel good about this, they get some stability with the Cloud on Customer? Is it a transition point, is it a fixture, is it a blanky? Is it their binky? >> I think it could be both. I think it could be a transition point. I think for some customers again, depending on where they are, where they live, what type of industry, what type of data we're talking about, that might be the way they're going to consume it. Whereas I have data sovereignty laws, I can't actually move anything to cloud unless those change, but it still allows me to consume cloud in a cloud-like fashion subscription basis. Same identical services that we have in our public cloud, but just have it behind their firewall. >> So today's announcements featured partners pretty strong, and Oracle's always had a pretty big ecosystem. It's one of the key reasons for your success. And a lot of the partners out there would like themselves to start getting into the cloud, by offering services to their customers using a lot of what you're doing from a standpoint of moving your enterprise customers forward. As Oracle looks out at the landscape, you see Oracle, AWS, you're going to compete aggressively for that. But also your partners are going to step up, and they're going to offer their own cloud services. What about your customers? Do you anticipate seeing branded cloud services from your customers as they engage their customers differently through digital means? >> Yeah, that's actually a great question. I do think, yeah, a lot of our customers actually have their own services that they provide to end users. And I would say first, to back up, I think again it's about providing choice to our customers so they can engage within Oracle. They can engage with our partners on not only our technology, but maybe how do I migrate to cloud? How do I consume it in different ways? Also take a more solutions-based approach. (intercom blares) So if I'm looking at. Aw, we just got hit with that. Are they shutting this thing down in a few minutes? >> No no, we're good. >> A 16 ton thing's going to drop on the table. >> What is happening here? >> The Monty Python foot is going to come down on us. >> That's right. >> I thought that was a CUBE announcement sort of coming up. >> CUBE, Steve Daheb is on theCUBE! >> We should be announcing that. So I think that again, enabling the ecosystem to provide solutions. And I think as customers provide their own branded solutions, hopefully that's based on Oracle Cloud services and it's something that they can just re-brand, maybe augment, customize, and deploy for their own customers. >> They're giving us the bell here, but I want to get one last word in, we've got a little noise factor going on here. >> This is alright, man. >> The Infrastructure as a Service really is the third leg of the stool here for you guys. Big push here, you have the SaaS business on the press release. Second year in a row, Oracle has sold more SaaS and PaaS than any other cloud service provider. I think Larry used the word combined. Not sure I agree with that, but I haven't looked up the numbers, so I haven't fact-checked that. But then the next one comes down here as the second generation infrastructure that does twice the compute, twice the memory, four times the storage, 10 times more IO, 20% in price lower than Amazon Web Services. It's a new opportunity for Oracle to layer on top of our rapidly growing SaaS and PaaS. How are you going to layer infrastructures on top of PaaS and Saas? Isn't it the other way around? >> Yeah, I think it, yeah, sort of how do you look at it. They're tightly integrated. There's different sorts of entry points for IaaS. There could be discrete compute, but we think ultimately we see a lot of pull through from PaaS. So I might be deploying Oracle database but I'm doing it on a non-Oracle sort of application here. So I move the database to cloud and I pull compute to support that. And then from a software perspective, as Mark would say and Larry would say, we actually when we sell SaaS, you know, Software as a Service, we're selling that full stack to go along with it. >> Well, put it this way, that a database buyer looks at IaaS and sees infrastructure. An applications seller looks at the database and sees infrastructure. And so as you said, it's really what your perspective is. Containers is going to make it even more complex. >> Yeah, I agree. But it's interesting, 'cause I think ultimately that's the more strategic way that this is going to be consumed. I don't think you walk into somewhere, you say hey, you want some compute? We got some compute. Maybe more on the storage archive position, but when you look at the application development, when you look at applications, when you look at migrating databases, I think that's where you're going to pull through the infrastructure, and so that's why we're focused on offering all three layers of the cloud. >> There's definitely a trend towards enterprise-grade cloud, I was seeing that here at Oracle and at VMworld. We were just at theCUBE there. You're seeing this shift, they're getting out of the cloud game, so they're a different strategy. But Pat Gelsinger when I asked, pressed him on Amazon Web Service, saying did Amazon Web Service kind of force your hand? He kind of called it the developer cloud. That's how he called the Amazon Web Services. But they have developers. So my question to you is what's the strategy for developers? 'Cause at the end of the day we're seeing, talking to the VC certainly that was just on, there's going to be a mobile explosion of enterprise developers for mobile, cloud, lot of white space. You guys have an ecosystem, you have PaaS that's developer friendly. >> It is very developer friendly. >> What do you do with developers? Give us the update. What specifically are you guys doing in market. >> We have a big focus you're going to see with respect to developers. We've had Java developers that have been an incredible community for years and we've been serving them for years. I think Judy, before Larry took the stage, announced Oracle Code, which is going to be a multi-city road show where can get together. We're going to provide them access to Oracle Cloud, allow them to develop in multiple type tools, which I think was an important part of the announcement as well. Larry's saying look, it's not just about Java. It's about Ruby, it's about Python, it's about Node.js, it's about having an open platform that supports all developers. Tools like application containers and some of the other things. >> How would you grade you guys now? Not well suited for developers? Certainly Java you have developer community. But in market when you bring it to customers, is there a developer program that you guys have in motion? What's in the market? >> We do have things in motion. There's a developer program today and we continue to expand in that community. So we move away from just maybe traditionally Oracle developers to a broader set of developers. I think giving them a robust enterprise-grade platform, that gives them choice. So you're going to see a lot, hopefully we'll see you guys on the road at some of these events. But we're going to go out. >> There's a huge demand for developers to create opportunity in the ecosystem. I know you got to go, better wrap up. Thanks for spending the time. >> No thanks, a great way to wrap up the day. >> Congratulations, I know you're running hard. You look great, nice watch again. Yeah, flash the watch. >> I just miss the pocket square that you guys had in DC, I got to get that right next time. >> Best dressed man at Oracle. We are here live at theCUBE in San Francisco. I'm John Furrier, Peter Burris. Day one of coverage, three days wall-to-wall here live. TheCUBE, Thanks for watching.

>> Presenter: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Oracle OpenWorld 2016. Brought to you by Oracle. Now, here's your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Welcome back, everyone. We are here live in San Francisco, for three days of wall-to-wall coverage of Oracle OpenWorld 2016. The big story, Oracle moving through the cloud. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE. My cohost this week, Peter Burris, head of Research at SiliconANGLE Media, General Manager of Wikibon Research. Our next guest is Ashish Mohindroo, who is the Vice President of Oracle Cloud on the good old market side. Welcome to theCUBE, good to see you. >> Thanks John, same here. >> John: We have a mutual friend from Prasada. (laughter) Say hello. >> Hi Prakash! >> John: Prakash! He's good. Okay, entrepreneurs are all moving to the cloud, obviously it's a green field for them. But Oracle is a big company, this is clearly the mandate, this isn't cloud washing. People are saying oh they're cloud washing, but not really, Oracle is putting the effort in, we've been watching and documenting it. Obviously some critical analysis that's due here and there but for the most part, the progression is good, they're moving to the cloud. Can you give us an update because SaaS business, everyone sees that, knows that, the Platform as a Service, last year, was the big push, a lot of progress, so give us a quick one minute overview of what's the update on PaaS, Platform as a Service, and what's different this year about Infrastructure as a Service. >> Definitely, well thanks John, I think you hit the nail on the head with the fact that Oracle is the biggest secret in the industry, being the biggest cloud company, right, the most exciting cloud company in the valley. What we've really done is if you look at our numbers, we just announced our Q1 earnings, our business SaaS and PaaS business grew about 77%. It's the fastest growing SaaS and PaaS growth rate in the industry, compared to any other vendor, including Amazon, including Microsoft, and if you compare that to the Q4 numbers, where we grew at 66%, that was again faster than Amazon and Microsoft. So the market is expanding and Oracle is the fastest growing business in there. In addition to that-- >> John: By revenue or by percentage growth? >> By percentage growth. So we're close to about a $4 billion run rate on SaaS and PaaS as of Q1 FY17. >> That's across all the different, as a service? >> It's primarily SaaS, PaaS infrastructure and overall cloud revenue for us. >> John: Okay, got it. >> A big chunk of that is attributed to SaaS and PaaS. Now I want to give you some other statistics in terms of the size of our cloud business. You know there are about 98 million plus daily active users on a cloud. In addition, we do about 50 billion plus transactions a day on Oracle Cloud, right, so the massive scale, but we are operating across 195 different countries and growing, we have 19 plus regional data centers, I mean expanding more into China and Middle East, so the growth and the pace and the expansion of the business is massive and we believe that this market is growing at such an unprecedented rate that Oracle is well positioned to take advantage of that and really provide and end-to-end offerings to our customers. >> Larry Ellison in his key note last night and Rob Hope, our Editor in Chief at SiliconANGLE, who runs our editorial, grabbed the head line, his quote was Amazon, talking to Amazon, Amazon, your lead is over. Okay, what does that mean? What does that mean? Saying that your lead is over in the sense that we're closing the gap or enjoy it while you have it, we're coming after you? >> A number of things. One is that we're really making new exciting announcements into the infrastructure of the service play market. So you're going to hear within the next couple of days in terms of new offerings. We today announced the fact that we expanded our infrastructure's service capabilities from virtualized environments to also bare metal, which is something that Amazon doesn't offer. And the advantage of that is that companies can now run more high performance applications on bare metal service, versus being bothered by having to share that capacity to compute space with other applications and other customers. The other big thing what Oracle is doing is providing an end-to-end offering. So if you think about it, right, Amazon started out being with a compute layer. They said look, if you want to spin up a server, and just have to compute capacity, storage capacity, great, you don't need to invest in that, you don't need to buy it on premise, you can go to us. What customers are really looking for is yes, you can spin up a server, then what do you do next? You got to be able to build an application, you got to be able to scale that application, monitor that application, integrate that application, run analytics on that, and then at some point, do an end-of-life. So you want to have a complete application life cycle and management so you need an integrated capabilities. Today if you look at the public cloud offerings, you got to piece that together for multiple vendors. Even in Amazon, they provide you the basic services, but then you have to go to their partners to kind of fill in those pieces, manage multiple contracts, worry about integration, Oracle is providing an end-to-end capability. So today we also announced 19 plus additional services on our PaaS layer, from databases to integration, to IOT, so we are really providing you everything you need to not only get your data center moving towards the cloud but also your application development, integration, and management capabilities, that have not been available in the market today from a single vendor. So Oracle, with Larry, what he was really claiming was the market is up for grabs, we are the only vendor providing everything from end-to-end and we are going to be aggressively competing in the core infrastructure space with our new expanded offerings. >> What do you think Oracle's biggest advantage is? >> Sorry? >> What do you think Oracle's biggest advantage in the cloud is? I mean, you talked about the size of it, what do you think, fundamentally, is going to set Oracle apart from everybody else in the cloud? >> So part of that is the comprehensive nature of our offerings. From IAS to PaaS to SaaS. There's no other vendor that has that breadth. Customers are looking for a single throat to choke, in some ways, or a single vendor to deal with for a majority of the services, so we have a big advantage there. The second is our application ecosystem. If you look at the number of customers we have, the size of our offerings from ERP to CRM, to ACM, you can see that we provide everything, there's an economy around that, so customers want to build extensions, they want to integrate through these applications, and they really want to drive their business to one primary vendor, so Oracle has that advantage. The other stuff as we look at the cloud environment today, only 6% of all workloads are running on public infrastructure. That's growing at about 50% year over year. Now, 90% plus of workloads are still relying on on-premise environments, where do you think those are running on? Those are primarily running on Oracle infrastructures, whether it's Oracle databases, Oracle metalware, or also on-premise Oracle applications. So we believe customers want to have the same enterprise-grade capabilities on the cloud, which we've been working on for 40 years, now we learn from that experience, we learned from what our competitors have done over the last ten years, we bring that together to our new cloud infrastructure, PaaS and SaaS offerings. So from a technology perspective, the breadth perspective, and the customer experience perspective, we believe Oracle has a tremendous advantage, which is kind of hard to close a gap for it in terms of other competitors. >> The declining revenue on licenses, and the earnings call was pointed out, some color was given by Mark Heard on that but the growth in cloud was higher than the decline in on-prem licenses. And then Larry came over the top and said well, Microsoft has been moving all their customers to the cloud, we really haven't moved our people over. And then Mark Heard said we're in the long game, I'm kind of playing at that I want to get to a question, which is interesting, the database is very sticky. You guys have an in to all of your applications so it seems to me that the core of the show here is talking about infrastructure as a service, seem to be table stays low cost, high performance, comodotize the IaaS, and then move your customers over. Is that the strategy, is that just the timing? Am I over-reading into this thing, is it a conspiracy theory? >> What it is actually is that customers want high-quality, high-performance capabilities in the cloud, right? They've been used to building their own data centers. There's a reason for that. They could choose the infrastructure that they wanted, the servers that they wanted, the stories they wanted, the compute capacity they really needed, and they want the same experience on the public cloud. But cost was a big factor. So if you look at Amazon, it's very easy to get started but as your application scales, the cost starts to ramp, accelerate really fast, and customers are very wary of that fact that is this really a cost benefit for me in the long run to move to Amazon. One example is a company like Dropbox. That was in the news that brought back the infrastructure from Amazon to in-house, right? Couple of things for that, one was they wanted a better infrastructure and secondly they wanted to lower the costs. With Oracle, what we are saying is cost is a big factor for you to move to the cloud. We're going to take that away. We're going to make sure that you're getting the best performance, the best infrastructure, at the lowest cost possible in the industry, then we're going to give you capabilities to brace moving to the cloud, to migrate to the cloud. You're not going to say only build cloud-native applications in the cloud, but how do you take all these critical business applications, the core infrastructure that you're running today, and be able to transition that to the cloud, so we have new capabilities that we're introducing and infrastructures to servers, called Ravello Cloud Service, for example, that can literally do a lift and shift of all your V-Ems, of virtualized environment workloads, to the cloud. You don't have to rewrite them, you don't have to reconfigure them, all it does is simply point and click and you got them moving there. Nobody in the industry has that native cability coming with us. So we understand the challenges that other companies are going through, and we're giving them the capabilities and a path to move there. On top of that, Oracle went through a similar transition, so we learned a lot from our own internal transition. We went from on-premise systems to actually moving our internal systems to the Oracle Cloud. So we understood the pain, the challenges, and the opportunities that provided us to get that and we bring that same experience back to our customers. >> And as my final question for you, if you could take a minute and explain kind of what you do at Oracle but mainly, what going on in the field. As you guys take this to the customers, what are some of the things you're working on, do you have any events coming up, what's your road map for activities, and how are customers are engaging with Oracle? >> Very good questions, so my responsibility is go to market for Oracle Cloud, so especially for IaaS and PaaS. What we're noticing with our customers is every single conversation that we engage in, any size customer, whether it's a Fortune 500 customer, mid-size, or even a small company, they're all interested in either building out new applications in the cloud, migrating to the cloud, or really retiring their entire data center, and then moving all the workloads into the cloud. So we are noticing the tremendous amount of interest. They're all figuring out strategies of how do you get there. A lot of interest in hybrid clouds. So customers are going to start with new applications, up their applications in the cloud, but they'll still want to retain, because of regulatory compliance, security purposes, some applications in-house, so they want to know how do you kind of built out these hybrid cloud capabilities where you can have the same business model of subscription, metered offerings, within their own data center, and at the same time have the same flexibility to move to the cloud. So for that, we got to introduce our Oracle Cloud machine, or cloud customer capabilities that gives them that option, the flexibility to decide and move at their own pace. >> John: So a lot of education. >> Sorry? >> So you're doing a lot of education. >> Tremendous amount of education, we're actually going to be doing about a 50 plus city roadshow with our Cloud Days and Cloud World, close to OpenWorld. We're doing a lot of virtual-- >> So Cloud World is going to continue, we did the Cloud World in DC with theCUBE there, that was great. You going to do more of those regionally? >> We're going to do a global tour starting in October. We're actually going to be covering AMIA, APAC, North America, and even Latin America and South America so we're going across the world, going to different countries, I think we're covering about 50 plus countries in those events and basically spreading the word out and engaging with every kind of customer to educate them on Oracle and also give them a-- >> So big tent events in regions and then city events, satellite events to hub and spoke off those kinds of activities. >> Absolutely, yes. And doing a lot on the virtual as well, online. >> Yeah. Any virtual reality, walk into an Oracle database with my headset, look at this scheme, it's all screwed up! >> Ashish: That will be the next time around, we aren't there yet for that one. >> Thanks so much for sharing your insight and good luck with your activities, great to see you, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks John, thanks man. >> Alright, we are here live at Oracle OpenWorld and if you want to join the conversation, go to Twitter and check out the hashtag #thecube, go to siliconangle.com and check out the research at wikibon.com and of course, go to siliconangle.tv, I'm John Furrier, Peter Burris live here in San Francisco for Oracle OpenWorld 2016. In fact, there's more after this short break. (techno music)

(gentle music playing) >> For centuries, we've been captivated by the concept of machines doing the job of humans. And over the past decade or so, we've really focused on AI and the possibility of intelligent machines that can perform cognitive tasks. Now in the past few years, with the popularity of machine learning models ranging from recent ChatGPT to Bert, we're starting to see how AI is changing the way we interact with the world. How is AI transforming the way we do business? And what does the future hold for us there. At theCube, we've covered Oracle's AI and ML strategy for years, which has really been used to drive automation into Oracle's autonomous database. We've talked a lot about MySQL HeatWave in database machine learning, and AI pushed into Oracle's business apps. Oracle, it tends to lead in AI, but not competing as a direct AI player per se, but rather embedding AI and machine learning into its portfolio to enhance its existing products, and bring new services and offerings to the market. Now, last October at Cloud World in Las Vegas, Oracle partnered with Nvidia, which is the go-to AI silicon provider for vendors. And they announced an investment, a pretty significant investment to deploy tens of thousands more Nvidia GPUs to OCI, the Oracle Cloud Infrastructure and build out Oracle's infrastructure for enterprise scale AI. Now, Oracle CEO, Safra Catz said something to the effect of this alliance is going to help customers across industries from healthcare, manufacturing, telecoms, and financial services to overcome the multitude of challenges they face. Presumably she was talking about just driving more automation and more productivity. Now, to learn more about Oracle's plans for AI, we'd like to welcome in Elad Ziklik, who's the vice president of AI services at Oracle. Elad, great to see you. Welcome to the show. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. >> You're very welcome. So first let's talk about Oracle's path to AI. I mean, it's the hottest topic going for years you've been incorporating machine learning into your products and services, you know, could you tell us what you've been working on, how you got here? >> So great question. So as you mentioned, I think most of the original four-way into AI was on embedding AI and using AI to make our applications, and databases better. So inside mySQL HeatWave, inside our autonomous database in power, we've been driving AI, all of course are SaaS apps. So Fusion, our large enterprise business suite for HR applications and CRM and ELP, and whatnot has built in AI inside it. Most recently, NetSuite, our small medium business SaaS suite started using AI for things like automated invoice processing and whatnot. And most recently, over the last, I would say two years, we've started exposing and bringing these capabilities into the broader OCI Oracle Cloud infrastructure. So the developers, and ISVs and customers can start using our AI capabilities to make their apps better and their experiences and business workflow better, and not just consume these as embedded inside Oracle. And this recent partnership that you mentioned with Nvidia is another step in bringing the best AI infrastructure capabilities into this platform so you can actually build any type of machine learning workflow or AI model that you want on Oracle Cloud. >> So when I look at the market, I see companies out there like DataRobot or C3 AI, there's maybe a half dozen that sort of pop up on my radar anyway. And my premise has always been that most customers, they don't want to become AI experts, they want to buy applications and have AI embedded or they want AI to manage their infrastructure. So my question to you is, how does Oracle help its OCI customers support their business with AI? >> So it's a great question. So I think what most customers want is business AI. They want AI that works for the business. They want AI that works for the enterprise. I call it the last mile of AI. And they want this thing to work. The majority of them don't want to hire a large and expensive data science teams to go and build everything from scratch. They just want the business problem solved by applying AI to it. My best analogy is Lego. So if you think of Lego, Lego has these millions Lego blocks that you can use to build anything that you want. But the majority of people like me or like my kids, they want the Lego death style kit or the Lego Eiffel Tower thing. They want a thing that just works, and it's very easy to use. And still Lego blocks, you still need to build some things together, which just works for the scenario that you're looking for. So that's our focus. Our focus is making it easy for customers to apply AI where they need to, in the right business context. So whether it's embedding it inside the business applications, like adding forecasting capabilities to your supply chain management or financial planning software, whether it's adding chat bots into the line of business applications, integrating these things into your analytics dashboard, even all the way to, we have a new platform piece we call ML applications that allows you to take a machine learning model, and scale it for the thousands of tenants that you would be. 'Cause this is a big problem for most of the ML use cases. It's very easy to build something for a proof of concept or a pilot or a demo. But then if you need to take this and then deploy it across your thousands of customers or your thousands of regions or facilities, then it becomes messy. So this is where we spend our time making it easy to take these things into production in the context of your business application or your business use case that you're interested in right now. >> So you mentioned chat bots, and I want to talk about ChatGPT, but my question here is different, we'll talk about that in a minute. So when you think about these chat bots, the ones that are conversational, my experience anyway is they're just meh, they're not that great. But the ones that actually work pretty well, they have a conditioned response. Now they're limited, but they say, which of the following is your problem? And then if that's one of the following is your problem, you can maybe solve your problem. But this is clearly a trend and it helps the line of business. How does Oracle think about these use cases for your customers? >> Yeah, so I think the key here is exactly what you said. It's about task completion. The general purpose bots are interesting, but as you said, like are still limited. They're getting much better, I'm sure we'll talk about ChatGPT. But I think what most enterprises want is around task completion. I want to automate my expense report processing. So today inside Oracle we have a chat bot where I submit my expenses the bot ask a couple of question, I answer them, and then I'm done. Like I don't need to go to our fancy application, and manually submit an expense report. I do this via Slack. And the key is around managing the right expectations of what this thing is capable of doing. Like, I have a story from I think five, six years ago when technology was much inferior than it is today. Well, one of the telco providers I was working with wanted to roll a chat bot that does realtime translation. So it was for a support center for of the call centers. And what they wanted do is, Hey, we have English speaking employees, whatever, 24/7, if somebody's calling, and the native tongue is different like Hebrew in my case, or Chinese or whatnot, then we'll give them a chat bot that they will interact with and will translate this on the fly and everything would work. And when they rolled it out, the feedback from customers was horrendous. Customers said, the technology sucks. It's not good. I hate it, I hate your company, I hate your support. And what they've done is they've changed the narrative. Instead of, you go to a support center, and you assume you're going to talk to a human, and instead you get a crappy chat bot, they're like, Hey, if you want to talk to a Hebrew speaking person, there's a four hour wait, please leave your phone and we'll call you back. Or you can try a new amazing Hebrew speaking AI powered bot and it may help your use case. Do you want to try it out? And some people said, yeah, let's try it out. Plus one to try it out. And the feedback, even though it was the exact same technology was amazing. People were like, oh my God, this is so innovative, this is great. Even though it was the exact same experience that they hated a few weeks earlier on. So I think the key lesson that I picked from this experience is it's all about setting the right expectations, and working around the right use case. If you are replacing a human, the level is different than if you are just helping or augmenting something that otherwise would take a lot of time. And I think this is the focus that we are doing, picking up the tasks that people want to accomplish or that enterprise want to accomplish for the customers, for the employees. And using chat bots to make those specific ones better rather than, hey, this is going to replace all humans everywhere, and just be better than that. >> Yeah, I mean, to the point you mentioned expense reports. I'm in a Twitter thread and one guy says, my favorite part of business travel is filling out expense reports. It's an hour of excitement to figure out which receipts won't scan. We can all relate to that. It's just the worst. When you think about companies that are building custom AI driven apps, what can they do on OCI? What are the best options for them? Do they need to hire an army of machine intelligence experts and AI specialists? Help us understand your point of view there. >> So over the last, I would say the two or three years we've developed a full suite of machine learning and AI services for, I would say probably much every use case that you would expect right now from applying natural language processing to understanding customer support tickets or social media, or whatnot to computer vision platforms or computer vision services that can understand and detect objects, and count objects on shelves or detect cracks in the pipe or defecting parts, all the way to speech services. It can actually transcribe human speech. And most recently we've launched a new document AI service. That can actually look at unstructured documents like receipts or invoices or government IDs or even proprietary documents, loan application, student application forms, patient ingestion and whatnot and completely automate them using AI. So if you want to do one of the things that are, I would say common bread and butter for any industry, whether it's financial services or healthcare or manufacturing, we have a suite of services that any developer can go, and use easily customized with their own data. You don't need to be an expert in deep learning or large language models. You could just use our automobile capabilities, and build your own version of the models. Just go ahead and use them. And if you do have proprietary complex scenarios that you need customer from scratch, we actually have the most cost effective platform for that. So we have the OCI data science as well as built-in machine learning platform inside the databases inside the Oracle database, and mySQL HeatWave that allow data scientists, python welding people that actually like to build and tweak and control and improve, have everything that they need to go and build the machine learning models from scratch, deploy them, monitor and manage them at scale in production environment. And most of it is brand new. So we did not have these technologies four or five years ago and we've started building them and they're now at enterprise scale over the last couple of years. >> So what are some of the state-of-the-art tools, that AI specialists and data scientists need if they're going to go out and develop these new models? >> So I think it's on three layers. I think there's an infrastructure layer where the Nvidia's of the world come into play. For some of these things, you want massively efficient, massively scaled infrastructure place. So we are the most cost effective and performant large scale GPU training environment today. We're going to be first to onboard the new Nvidia H100s. These are the new super powerful GPU's for large language model training. So we have that covered for you in case you need this 'cause you want to build these ginormous things. You need a data science platform, a platform where you can open a Python notebook, and just use all these fancy open source frameworks and create the models that you want, and then click on a button and deploy it. And it infinitely scales wherever you need it. And in many cases you just need the, what I call the applied AI services. You need the Lego sets, the Lego death style, Lego Eiffel Tower. So we have a suite of these sets for typical scenarios, whether it's cognitive services of like, again, understanding images, or documents all the way to solving particular business problems. So an anomaly detection service, demand focusing service that will be the equivalent of these Lego sets. So if this is the business problem that you're looking to solve, we have services out there where we can bring your data, call an API, train a model, get the model and use it in your production environment. So wherever you want to play, all the way into embedding this thing, inside this applications, obviously, wherever you want to play, we have the tools for you to go and engage from infrastructure to SaaS at the top, and everything in the middle. >> So when you think about the data pipeline, and the data life cycle, and the specialized roles that came out of kind of the (indistinct) era if you will. I want to focus on two developers and data scientists. So the developers, they hate dealing with infrastructure and they got to deal with infrastructure. Now they're being asked to secure the infrastructure, they just want to write code. And a data scientist, they're spending all their time trying to figure out, okay, what's the data quality? And they're wrangling data and they don't spend enough time doing what they want to do. So there's been a lack of collaboration. Have you seen that change, are these approaches allowing collaboration between data scientists and developers on a single platform? Can you talk about that a little bit? >> Yeah, that is a great question. One of the biggest set of scars that I have on my back from for building these platforms in other companies is exactly that. Every persona had a set of tools, and these tools didn't talk to each other and the handoff was painful. And most of the machine learning things evaporate or die on the floor because of this problem. It's very rarely that they are unsuccessful because the algorithm wasn't good enough. In most cases it's somebody builds something, and then you can't take it to production, you can't integrate it into your business application. You can't take the data out, train, create an endpoint and integrate it back like it's too painful. So the way we are approaching this is focused on this problem exactly. We have a single set of tools that if you publish a model as a data scientist and developers, and even business analysts that are seeing a inside of business application could be able to consume it. We have a single model store, a single feature store, a single management experience across the various personas that need to play in this. And we spend a lot of time building, and borrowing a word that cellular folks used, and I really liked it, building inside highways to make it easier to bring these insights into where you need them inside applications, both inside our applications, inside our SaaS applications, but also inside custom third party and even first party applications. And this is where a lot of our focus goes to just because we have dealt with so much pain doing this inside our own SaaS that we now have built the tools, and we're making them available for others to make this process of building a machine learning outcome driven insight in your app easier. And it's not just the model development, and it's not just the deployment, it's the entire journey of taking the data, building the model, training it, deploying it, looking at the real data that comes from the app, and creating this feedback loop in a more efficient way. And that's our focus area. Exactly this problem. >> Well thank you for that. So, last week we had our super cloud two event, and I had Juan Loza on and he spent a lot of time talking about how open Oracle is in its philosophy, and I got a lot of feedback. They were like, Oracle open, I don't really think, but the truth is if you think about database Oracle database, it never met a hardware platform that it didn't like. So in that sense it's open. So, but my point is, a big part of of machine learning and AI is driven by open source tools, frameworks, what's your open source strategy? What do you support from an open source standpoint? >> So I'm a strong believer that you don't actually know, nobody knows where the next slip fog or the next industry shifting innovation in AI is going to come from. If you look six months ago, nobody foreseen Dali, the magical text to image generation and the exploding brought into just art and design type of experiences. If you look six weeks ago, I don't think anybody's seen ChatGPT, and what it can do for a whole bunch of industries. So to me, assuming that a customer or partner or developer would want to lock themselves into only the tools that a specific vendor can produce is ridiculous. 'Cause nobody knows, if anybody claims that they know where the innovation is going to come from in a year or two, let alone in five or 10, they're just wrong or lying. So our strategy for Oracle is to, I call this the Netflix of AI. So if you think about Netflix, they produced a bunch of high quality shows on their own. A few years ago it was House of Cards. Last month my wife and I binge watched Ginny and Georgie, but they also curated a lot of shows that they found around the world and bought them to their customers. So it started with things like Seinfeld or Friends and most recently it was Squid games and those are famous Israeli TV series called Founder that Netflix bought in, and they bought it as is and they gave it the Netflix value. So you have captioning and you have the ability to speed the movie and you have it inside your app, and you can download it and watch it offline and everything, but nobody Netflix was involved in the production of these first seasons. Now if these things hunt and they're great, then the third season or the fourth season will get the full Netflix production value, high value budget, high value location shooting or whatever. But you as a customer, you don't care whether the producer and director, and screenplay writing is a Netflix employee or is somebody else's employee. It is fulfilled by Netflix. I believe that we will become, or we are looking to become the Netflix of AI. We are building a bunch of AI in a bunch of places where we think it's important and we have some competitive advantage like healthcare with Acellular partnership or whatnot. But I want to bring the best AI software and hardware to OCI and do a fulfillment by Oracle on that. So you'll get the Oracle security and identity and single bill and everything you'd expect from a company like Oracle. But we don't have to be building the data science, and the models for everything. So this means both open source recently announced a partnership with Anaconda, the leading provider of Python distribution in the data science ecosystem where we are are doing a joint strategic partnership of bringing all the goodness into Oracle customers as well as in the process of doing the same with Nvidia, and all those software libraries, not just the Hubble, both for other stuff like Triton, but also for healthcare specific stuff as well as other ISVs, other AI leading ISVs that we are in the process of partnering with to get their stuff into OCI and into Oracle so that you can truly consume the best AI hardware, and the best AI software in the world on Oracle. 'Cause that is what I believe our customers would want the ability to choose from any open source engine, and honestly from any ISV type of solution that is AI powered and they want to use it in their experiences. >> So you mentioned ChatGPT, I want to talk about some of the innovations that are coming. As an AI expert, you see ChatGPT on the one hand, I'm sure you weren't surprised. On the other hand, maybe the reaction in the market, and the hype is somewhat surprising. You know, they say that we tend to under or over-hype things in the early stages and under hype them long term, you kind of use the internet as example. What's your take on that premise? >> So. I think that this type of technology is going to be an inflection point in how software is being developed. I truly believe this. I think this is an internet style moment, and the way software interfaces, software applications are being developed will dramatically change over the next year two or three because of this type of technologies. I think there will be industries that will be shifted. I think education is a good example. I saw this thing opened on my son's laptop. So I think education is going to be transformed. Design industry like images or whatever, it's already been transformed. But I think that for mass adoption, like beyond the hype, beyond the peak of inflected expectations, if I'm using Gartner terminology, I think certain things need to go and happen. One is this thing needs to become more reliable. So right now it is a complete black box that sometimes produce magic, and sometimes produce just nonsense. And it needs to have better explainability and better lineage to, how did you get to this answer? 'Cause I think enterprises are going to really care about the things that they surface with the customers or use internally. So I think that is one thing that's going to come out. And the other thing that's going to come out is I think it's going to come industry specific large language models or industry specific ChatGPTs. Something like how OpenAI did co-pilot for writing code. I think we will start seeing this type of apps solving for specific business problems, understanding contracts, understanding healthcare, writing doctor's notes on behalf of doctors so they don't have to spend time manually recording and analyzing conversations. And I think that would become the sweet spot of this thing. There will be companies, whether it's OpenAI or Microsoft or Google or hopefully Oracle that will use this type of technology to solve for specific very high value business needs. And I think this will change how interfaces happen. So going back to your expense report, the world of, I'm going to go into an app, and I'm going to click on seven buttons in order to get some job done like this world is gone. Like I'm going to say, hey, please do this and that. And I expect an answer to come out. I've seen a recent demo about, marketing in sales. So a customer sends an email that is interested in something and then a ChatGPT powered thing just produces the answer. I think this is how the world is going to evolve. Like yes, there's a ton of hype, yes, it looks like magic and right now it is magic, but it's not yet productive for most enterprise scenarios. But in the next 6, 12, 24 months, this will start getting more dependable, and it's going to change how these industries are being managed. Like I think it's an internet level revolution. That's my take. >> It's very interesting. And it's going to change the way in which we have. Instead of accessing the data center through APIs, we're going to access it through natural language processing and that opens up technology to a huge audience. Last question, is a two part question. And the first part is what you guys are working on from the futures, but the second part of the question is, we got data scientists and developers in our audience. They love the new shiny toy. So give us a little glimpse of what you're working on in the future, and what would you say to them to persuade them to check out Oracle's AI services? >> Yep. So I think there's two main things that we're doing, one is around healthcare. With a new recent acquisition, we are spending a significant effort around revolutionizing healthcare with AI. Of course many scenarios from patient care using computer vision and cameras through automating, and making better insurance claims to research and pharma. We are making the best models from leading organizations, and internal available for hospitals and researchers, and insurance providers everywhere. And we truly are looking to become the leader in AI for healthcare. So I think that's a huge focus area. And the second part is, again, going back to the enterprise AI angle. Like we want to, if you have a business problem that you want to apply here to solve, we want to be your platform. Like you could use others if you want to build everything complicated and whatnot. We have a platform for that as well. But like, if you want to apply AI to solve a business problem, we want to be your platform. We want to be the, again, the Netflix of AI kind of a thing where we are the place for the greatest AI innovations accessible to any developer, any business analyst, any user, any data scientist on Oracle Cloud. And we're making a significant effort on these two fronts as well as developing a lot of the missing pieces, and building blocks that we see are needed in this space to make truly like a great experience for developers and data scientists. And what would I recommend? Get started, try it out. We actually have a shameless sales plug here. We have a free deal for all of our AI services. So it typically cost you nothing. I would highly recommend to just go, and try these things out. Go play with it. If you are a python welding developer, and you want to try a little bit of auto mail, go down that path. If you're not even there and you're just like, hey, I have these customer feedback things and I want to try out, if I can understand them and apply AI and visualize, and do some cool stuff, we have services for that. My recommendation is, and I think ChatGPT got us 'cause I see people that have nothing to do with AI, and can't even spell AI going and trying it out. I think this is the time. Go play with these things, go play with these technologies and find what AI can do to you or for you. And I think Oracle is a great place to start playing with these things. >> Elad, thank you. Appreciate you sharing your vision of making Oracle the Netflix of AI. Love that and really appreciate your time. >> Awesome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. >> Okay. Thanks for watching this Cube conversation. This is Dave Vellante. We'll see you next time. (gentle music playing)

(upbeat music) >> You got it, it's theCUBE. We are in Vegas. This is the Cube's live coverage day one of the full event coverage of AWS reInvent '22 from the Venetian Expo Center. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante. We love being in Vegas, Dave. >> Well, you know, this is where Super Cloud sort of was born. >> It is. >> Last year, just about a year ago. Steve Mullaney, CEO of of Aviatrix, you know, kind of helped us think it through. And we got some fun stories around. It's happening, but... >> It is happening. We're going to be talking about Super Cloud guys. >> I guess I just did the intro, Steve Mullaney >> You did my intro, don't do it again. >> Sorry I stole that from you, yeah. >> Steve Mullaney, joined just once again, one of our alumni. Steve, great to have you back on the program. >> Thanks for having me back. >> Dave: It's happening. >> It is happening. >> Dave: We talked about a year ago. Net Studio was right there. >> That was two years. Was that year ago, that was a year ago. >> Dave: It was last year. >> Yeah, I leaned over >> What's happening? >> so it's happening. It's happening. You know what, the thing I noticed what's happening now is the maturity of the cloud, right? So, if you think about this whole journey to cloud that has been, what, AWS 12 years. But really over the last few years is when enterprises have really kind of joined that journey. And three or four years ago, and this is why I came out of retirement and went to Aviatrix, was they all said, okay, now we're going to do cloud. You fast forward now three, four years from now, all of a sudden those five-year plans of evacuating the data center, they got one year left, two year left, and they're going, oh crap, we don't have five years anymore. We're, now the maturity's starting to say, we're starting to put more apps into the cloud. We're starting to put business critical apps like SAP into the cloud. This is not just like the low-hanging fruit anymore. So what's happening now is the business criticality, the scale, the maturity. And they're all now starting to hit a lot of limits that have been put into the CSPs that you never used to hit when you didn't have business critical and you didn't have that scale. They were always there. The rocks were always there. Just it was, you never hit 'em. People are starting to hit 'em now. So what's happening now is people are realizing, and I'm going to jump the gun, you asked me for my bumper sticker. The bumper sticker for Aviatrix is, "Good enough is no longer good enough." Now it's funny, it came in a keynote today, but what we see from our customers is it's time to upgrade the native constructs of networking and network security to be enterprise-grade now. It's no longer good enough to just use the native constructs because of a lack of visibility, the lack of controls, the lack of troubleshooting capabilities, all these things. "I now need enterprise grade networking." >> Let me ask you a question 'cause you got a good historical perspective on the industry. When you think about when Maritz was running VMWare. He was like any app, he said basically we're building a software mainframe. And they kind of did that, right? But then they, you know, hit the issue with scale, right? And they can't replicate the cloud. Are there things that we can draw from that experience and apply that to the cloud? What's the same, what's different? >> Oh yeah. So, 1992, do you remember what happened in 1992? I do this, weird German software company called SAP >> Yeah, R3. announced a release as R/3. Which was their first three-tier client-server application of SAP. Before that it ran on mainframes, TCP/IP. Remember that Protocol War? Guess what happened post-1992, everybody goes up like this. Infrastructure completely changes. Cisco, EMC, you name it, builds out these PCE client-server architectures. The WAN changes, MPLS, the campus, everything's home running back to that data center running SAP. That was the last 30 years ago. Great transformation of SAP. They've did it again. It's called S/4Hana. And now it's running and people are switching to S/4Hana and they're moving to the cloud. It's just starting. And that is going to alter how you build infrastructure. And so when you have that, being able to troubleshoot in hours versus minutes is a big deal. This is business critical, millions of dollars. This is not fun and games. So again, back to my, what was good enough for the last three or four years for enterprises no longer good enough, now I'm running business critical apps like SAP, and it's going to completely change infrastructure. That's happening in the cloud right now. And that's obviously a significant seismic shift, but what are some of the barriers that customers have been able to eliminate in order to get there? Or is it just good enough isn't good enough anymore? >> Barriers in terms of, well, I mean >> Lisa: The adoption. Yeah well, I mean, I think it's all the things that they go to cloud is, you know, the complexity, really, it's the agility, right? So the barrier that they have to get over is how do I keep the developer happy because the developer went to the cloud in the first place, why? Swipe the credit card because IT wasn't doing their job, 'cause every time I asked them for something, they said no. So I went around 'em. We need that. That's what they have to overcome in the move to the cloud. That is the obstacle is how do I deliver that visibility, that control, the enterprise, great functionality, but yet give the developer what they want. Because the minute I stop giving them that swipe the card operational model, what do you think they're going to do? They're going to go around me again and I can't, and the enterprise can't have that. >> That's a cultural shift. >> That's the main barrier they've got to overcome. >> Let me ask you another question. Is what we think of as mission critical, the definition changing? I mean, you mentioned SAP, obviously that's mission critical for operations, but you're also seeing new applications being developed in the cloud. >> I would say anything that's, I call business critical, same thing, but it's, business critical is internal to me, like SAP, but also anything customer-facing. That's business critical to me. If that app goes down or it has a problem, I'm not collecting revenue. So, you know, back 30 years ago, we didn't have a lot of customer-facing apps, right? It really was just SAP. I mean there wasn't a heck of a lot of cust- There were customer-facing things. But you didn't have all the digitalization that we have now, like the digital economy, where that's where the real explosion has come, is you think about all the customer-facing applications. And now every enterprise is what? A technology, digital company with a customer-facing and you're trying to get closer and closer to who? The consumer. >> Yeah, self-service. >> Self-service, B2C, everybody wants to do that. Get out of the middle man. And those are business critical applications for people. >> So what's needed under the covers to make all this happen? Give us a little double click on where you guys fit. >> You need consistent architecture. Obviously not just for one cloud, but for any cloud. But even within one cloud, forget multicloud, it gets worst with multicloud. You need a consistent architecture, right? That is automated, that is as code. I can't have the human involved. These are all, this is the API generation, you've got to be able to use automation, Terraform. And all the way from the application development platform you know, through Jenkins and all other software, through CICD pipeline and Terraform, when you, when that developer says, I want infrastructure, it has to go build that infrastructure in real time. And then when it says, I don't need it anymore it's got to take it away. And you cannot have a human involved in that process. That's what's completely changed. And that's what's giving the agility. And that's kind of a cloud model, right? Use software. >> Well, okay, so isn't that what serverless does, right? >> That's part of it. Absolutely. >> But I might still want control sometimes over the runtime if I'm running those mission critical applications. Everything in enterprise is a heterogeneous thing. It's like people, people say, well there's going to, the people going to repatriate back to on-prem, they are not repatriating back to on-prem. >> We were just talking about that, I'm like- >> Steve: It's not going to happen, right? >> It's a myth, it's a myth. >> And there's things that maybe shouldn't have ever gone into the cloud, I get that. Look, do people still have mainframes? Of course. There's certain things that you just, doesn't make sense to move to the new generation. There were things, certain applications that are very static, they weren't dynamic. You know what, keeping it on-prem it's, probably makes sense. So some of those things maybe will go back, but they never should have gone. But we are not repatriating ever, you know, that's not going to happen. >> No I agree. I mean, you know, there was an interesting paper by Andreessen, >> Yeah. >> But, I mean- >> Steve: Yeah it was a little self-serving for some company that need more funding, yeah. You look at the numbers. >> Steve: Yeah. >> It tells the story. It's just not happening. >> No. And the reason is, it's that agility, right? And so that's what people, I would say that what you need to do is, and in order to get that agility, you have to have that consistency. You have to have automation, you have to get these people out of the way. You have to use software, right? So it's that you have that swipe the card operational model for the developers. They don't want to hear the word no. >> Lisa: Right. >> What do you think is going to happen with AWS? Because we heard, I don't know if you heard Selipsky's keynote this morning, but you've probably heard the hallway talk. >> Steve: I did, yeah. >> Okay. You did. So, you know, connecting the dots, you know doubling down on all the primitives, that we expected. We kind of expected more of the higher level stuff, which really didn't see much of that, a little bit. >> Steve: Yeah. So, you know, there's a whole thing about, okay, does the cloud get commoditized? Does it not? I think the secret weapon's the ecosystem, right? Because they're able to sell through with guys like you. Make great margins on that. >> Steve: Yeah, well, yeah. >> What are your thoughts though on the future of AWS? >> IAS is going to get commoditized. So this is the fallacy that a lot of the CSPs have, is they thought that they were going to commoditize enterprise. It never happens that way. What's going to happen is infrastructure as a service, the lower level, which is why you see all the CSPs talking about what? Oracle Cloud, industry cloud. >> Well, sure, absolutely, yeah. >> We got to get to the apps, we got to get to SAP, we got to get to all that, because that's not going to get commoditized, right. But all the infrastructural service where AWS is king that is going to get commoditized, absolutely. >> Okay, so, but historically, you know Cisco's still got 60% plus gross margins. EMC always had good margin. How pure is the lone survivor in Flash? They got 70% gross margins. So infrastructure actually has always been a pretty good business. >> Yeah that's true. But it's a hell of a lot easier, particularly with people like Aviatrix and others that are building these common architectural things that create simplicity and abstract the way the complexities of underneath such that we allow your network to run an AWS, Azure, Google, Oracle, whatever, exactly the same. So it makes it a hell of a lot easier >> Dave: Super cloud. >> to go move. >> But I want to tap your brain because you have a good perspective of this because servers used to be a great margin business too on-prem and now it's not. It's a low margin business 'cause all the margin went to Intel. >> Yeah. But the cloud guys, you know, AWS in particular, makes a ton of dough on servers, so, or compute. So it's going to be interesting to see over time if that gets com- that's why they're going so hard after silicon. >> I think if they can, I think if you can capture the workload. So AWS and everyone else, as another example, this SAP, they call that a gravity workload. You know what gravity workload is? It's a black hole. It drags everything else with it. If you get SAP or Oracle or a mainframe app, it ain't going anywhere. And then what's going to happen is all your other apps are going to follow it. So that's what they're all going to fight for, is type of app. >> You said something earlier about, forget multicloud, for a moment, but, that idea of the super cloud, this abstraction layer, I mean, is that a real business value for customers other than, oh I got all these clouds, I need 'em to work together. You know, from your perspective from Aviatrix perspective, is it an opportunity for you to build on top of that? Or are you just looking at, look, I'm going to do really good work in AWS, in Azure? Now we're making the same experience. >> I hear this every single day from our customers is they look and they say, good enough isn't good enough. I've now hit the point, I'm hitting route limitations. I'm hitting, I'm doing things manually, and that's fine when I don't have that many applications or I don't have mission critical. The dogs are eating the dog food, we're going into the cloud and they're looking and then saying this is not an operational model for me. I've hit the point where I can't keep doing this, I can't throw bodies at this, I need software. And that's the opportunity for us, is they look and they say, I'm doing it in one cloud, but, and there's zero chance I'm going to be able to figure that out in the two or three other clouds. Every enterprise I talk to says multicloud is inevitable. Whether they're in it now, they all know they're going to go, because it's the business units that demand it. It's not the IT teams that demand it, it's the line of business that says, I like GCP for this reason. >> The driver's functionality that they're getting. >> It's the app teams that say, I have this service and GCP's better at it than AWS. >> Yeah, so it's not so much a cost game or the end all coffee mug, right? >> No, no. >> Google does this better than Microsoft, or better than- >> If you asked an IT person, they would rather not have multicloud. They actually tried to fight it. No, why would you want to support four clouds when you could support one right? That's insane. >> Dave and Lisa: Right. If they didn't have a choice and, and so it, the decision was made without them, and actually they weren't even notified until day before. They said, oh, good news, we're going to GCP tomorrow. Well, why wasn't I notified? Well, we're notifying you now. >> Yeah, you would've said, no. >> Steve: This is cloud bottle, let's go. >> Super cloud again. Did you see the Berkeley paper, sky computing I think they call it? Down at Berkeley, yep Dave Linthicum from Deloitte. He's talking about, I think he calls it meta cloud. It's happening. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> It's happening. >> No, and because customers, customers want that. They... >> And talk about some customer example or two that you think really articulates the value of why it's happening and the outcomes that it's generating. >> I mean, I was just talking to Lamb Weston last night. So we had a reception, Lamb Weston, huge, frozen potatoes. They serve like, I dunno, some ungodly percentage of all the french fries to all the fast food. It's unbelievable what they do. Do you know, they have special chemicals they put on the french fries. So when you get your DoorDash, they stay crispy longer. They've invented that patented it. But anyway, it's all these businesses you've never heard of and they do all the, and again, they're moving to SAP or they're actually SAP in the cloud, they're one of the first ones. They did it through Accenture. They're pulling it back off from Accenture. They're not happy with the service they're getting. They're going to use us for their networking and network security because they're going to get that visibility and control back. And they're going to repatriate it back from a managed service and bring it back and run it in-house. And the SAP basis engineers want it to happen because they see the visibility and control that the infrastructure guy's going to get because of us, which leads to, all they care about is uptime and performance. That's it. And they're going to say the infrastructure team's going to lead to better uptime and better performance if it's running on Aviatrix. >> And business performance and uptime, business critical >> That is the business. That is the business. >> It is. So what are some of the things next coming down the pike from Aviatrix? Any secret sauce you can share? >> Lot of secrets. So, two secrets. One, the next thing people really want to do, embedded network security into the network. We've kind of talked about this. You're going to be seeing some things from us. Where does network security belong? In the network. Embedded in the fabric of the network, not as this dumb device called the next-gen firewall that you steer traffic to. It has to be into the fabric of what we do, what we call airspace. You're going to see us talk about that. And then the next thing, back to the maturity of the cloud, as they build out the core, guess what they're doing? It's this thing called edge, Dave, right? And guess what they're going to do? It's not about connecting the cloud to the edge to the cloud with dumb things like SD-WAN, right? Or SaaS. It's actually the other way around. Go into the cloud, turn around, look out at the edge and say, how do I extend the cloud out to the edge, and make it look like a VPC. That's what people are doing. Why, 'cause I want the operational model. I want all the things that I can do in the cloud out at the edge. And everyone knows it's been in networking. I've been in networking for 37 years. He who wins the core does what? Wins the edge, 'cause that's what happens. You do it first in the core and then you want one architecture, one common architecture, one consistent way of doing everything. And that's going to go out to the edge and it's going to look like a VPC from an operational model. >> And Amazon's going to support that, no doubt. >> Yeah, I mean every, you know, every, and then it's just how do you want to go do that? And us as the networking and network security provider, we're getting dragged to the edge by our customer. Because you're my networking provider. And that means, end to end. And they're trying to drag us into on-prem too, yeah. >> Lot's going on, you're going to have to come back- >> Because they want one networking vendor. >> But wait, and you say what? >> We will never do like switches and any of the keep Arista, the Cisco, and all that kind of stuff. But we will start sucking in net flow. We will start doing, from an operational perspective, we will integrate a lot of the things that are happening in on-prem into our- >> No halfway house. >> Copilot. >> No halfway house, no two architectures. But you'll take the data in. >> You want one architecture. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, totally. >> Right play. >> Amazing stuff. >> And he who wins the core, guess what's more strategic to them? What's more strategic on-prem or cloud? Cloud. >> It flipped three years ago. >> Dave: Yeah. >> So he who wins in the clouds going to win everywhere. >> Got it, We'll keep our eyes on that. >> Steve: Cause and effect. >> Thank you so much for joining us. We've got your bumper sticker already. It's been a great pleasure having you on the program. You got to come back, there's so, we've- >> You posting the bumper sticker somewhere? >> Lisa: It's going to be our Instagram. >> Oh really, okay. >> And an Instagram sto- This is new for you guys. Always coming up with new ideas. >> Raising the bar. >> It is, it is. >> Me advance, I mean, come on. >> I love it. >> All right, for our guest Steve Mullaney and Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live enterprise and emerging tech coverage.

>>When Oracle acquired my SQL via the Sun acquisition, nobody really thought the company would put much effort into the platform preferring to focus all the wood behind its leading Oracle database, Arrow pun intended. But two years ago, Oracle surprised many folks by announcing my SQL Heatwave a new database as a service with a massively parallel hybrid Columbia in Mary Mary architecture that brings together transactional and analytic data in a single platform. Welcome to our latest database, power panel on the cube. My name is Dave Ante, and today we're gonna discuss Oracle's MySQL Heat Wave with a who's who of cloud database industry analysts. Holgar Mueller is with Constellation Research. Mark Stammer is the Dragon Slayer and Wikibon contributor. And Ron Westfall is with Fu Chim Research. Gentlemen, welcome back to the Cube. Always a pleasure to have you on. Thanks for having us. Great to be here. >>So we've had a number of of deep dive interviews on the Cube with Nip and Aggarwal. You guys know him? He's a senior vice president of MySQL, Heatwave Development at Oracle. I think you just saw him at Oracle Cloud World and he's come on to describe this is gonna, I'll call it a shock and awe feature additions to to heatwave. You know, the company's clearly putting r and d into the platform and I think at at cloud world we saw like the fifth major release since 2020 when they first announced MySQL heat wave. So just listing a few, they, they got, they taken, brought in analytics machine learning, they got autopilot for machine learning, which is automation onto the basic o l TP functionality of the database. And it's been interesting to watch Oracle's converge database strategy. We've contrasted that amongst ourselves. Love to get your thoughts on Amazon's get the right tool for the right job approach. >>Are they gonna have to change that? You know, Amazon's got the specialized databases, it's just, you know, the both companies are doing well. It just shows there are a lot of ways to, to skin a cat cuz you see some traction in the market in, in both approaches. So today we're gonna focus on the latest heat wave announcements and we're gonna talk about multi-cloud with a native MySQL heat wave implementation, which is available on aws MySQL heat wave for Azure via the Oracle Microsoft interconnect. This kind of cool hybrid action that they got going. Sometimes we call it super cloud. And then we're gonna dive into my SQL Heatwave Lake house, which allows users to process and query data across MyQ databases as heatwave databases, as well as object stores. So, and then we've got, heatwave has been announced on AWS and, and, and Azure, they're available now and Lake House I believe is in beta and I think it's coming out the second half of next year. So again, all of our guests are fresh off of Oracle Cloud world in Las Vegas. So they got the latest scoop. Guys, I'm done talking. Let's get into it. Mark, maybe you could start us off, what's your opinion of my SQL Heatwaves competitive position? When you think about what AWS is doing, you know, Google is, you know, we heard Google Cloud next recently, we heard about all their data innovations. You got, obviously Azure's got a big portfolio, snowflakes doing well in the market. What's your take? >>Well, first let's look at it from the point of view that AWS is the market leader in cloud and cloud services. They own somewhere between 30 to 50% depending on who you read of the market. And then you have Azure as number two and after that it falls off. There's gcp, Google Cloud platform, which is further way down the list and then Oracle and IBM and Alibaba. So when you look at AWS and you and Azure saying, hey, these are the market leaders in the cloud, then you start looking at it and saying, if I am going to provide a service that competes with the service they have, if I can make it available in their cloud, it means that I can be more competitive. And if I'm compelling and compelling means at least twice the performance or functionality or both at half the price, I should be able to gain market share. >>And that's what Oracle's done. They've taken a superior product in my SQL heat wave, which is faster, lower cost does more for a lot less at the end of the day and they make it available to the users of those clouds. You avoid this little thing called egress fees, you avoid the issue of having to migrate from one cloud to another and suddenly you have a very compelling offer. So I look at what Oracle's doing with MyQ and it feels like, I'm gonna use a word term, a flanking maneuver to their competition. They're offering a better service on their platforms. >>All right, so thank you for that. Holger, we've seen this sort of cadence, I sort of referenced it up front a little bit and they sat on MySQL for a decade, then all of a sudden we see this rush of announcements. Why did it take so long? And and more importantly is Oracle, are they developing the right features that cloud database customers are looking for in your view? >>Yeah, great question, but first of all, in your interview you said it's the edit analytics, right? Analytics is kind of like a marketing buzzword. Reports can be analytics, right? The interesting thing, which they did, the first thing they, they, they crossed the chasm between OTP and all up, right? In the same database, right? So major engineering feed very much what customers want and it's all about creating Bellevue for customers, which, which I think is the part why they go into the multi-cloud and why they add these capabilities. And they certainly with the AI capabilities, it's kind of like getting it into an autonomous field, self-driving field now with the lake cost capabilities and meeting customers where they are, like Mark has talked about the e risk costs in the cloud. So that that's a significant advantage, creating value for customers and that's what at the end of the day matters. >>And I believe strongly that long term it's gonna be ones who create better value for customers who will get more of their money From that perspective, why then take them so long? I think it's a great question. I think largely he mentioned the gentleman Nial, it's largely to who leads a product. I used to build products too, so maybe I'm a little fooling myself here, but that made the difference in my view, right? So since he's been charged, he's been building things faster than the rest of the competition, than my SQL space, which in hindsight we thought was a hot and smoking innovation phase. It kind of like was a little self complacent when it comes to the traditional borders of where, where people think, where things are separated between OTP and ola or as an example of adjacent support, right? Structured documents, whereas unstructured documents or databases and all of that has been collapsed and brought together for building a more powerful database for customers. >>So I mean it's certainly, you know, when, when Oracle talks about the competitors, you know, the competitors are in the, I always say they're, if the Oracle talks about you and knows you're doing well, so they talk a lot about aws, talk a little bit about Snowflake, you know, sort of Google, they have partnerships with Azure, but, but in, so I'm presuming that the response in MySQL heatwave was really in, in response to what they were seeing from those big competitors. But then you had Maria DB coming out, you know, the day that that Oracle acquired Sun and, and launching and going after the MySQL base. So it's, I'm, I'm interested and we'll talk about this later and what you guys think AWS and Google and Azure and Snowflake and how they're gonna respond. But, but before I do that, Ron, I want to ask you, you, you, you can get, you know, pretty technical and you've probably seen the benchmarks. >>I know you have Oracle makes a big deal out of it, publishes its benchmarks, makes some transparent on on GI GitHub. Larry Ellison talked about this in his keynote at Cloud World. What are the benchmarks show in general? I mean, when you, when you're new to the market, you gotta have a story like Mark was saying, you gotta be two x you know, the performance at half the cost or you better be or you're not gonna get any market share. So, and, and you know, oftentimes companies don't publish market benchmarks when they're leading. They do it when they, they need to gain share. So what do you make of the benchmarks? Have their, any results that were surprising to you? Have, you know, they been challenged by the competitors. Is it just a bunch of kind of desperate bench marketing to make some noise in the market or you know, are they real? What's your view? >>Well, from my perspective, I think they have the validity. And to your point, I believe that when it comes to competitor responses, that has not really happened. Nobody has like pulled down the information that's on GitHub and said, Oh, here are our price performance results. And they counter oracles. In fact, I think part of the reason why that hasn't happened is that there's the risk if Oracle's coming out and saying, Hey, we can deliver 17 times better query performance using our capabilities versus say, Snowflake when it comes to, you know, the Lakehouse platform and Snowflake turns around and says it's actually only 15 times better during performance, that's not exactly an effective maneuver. And so I think this is really to oracle's credit and I think it's refreshing because these differentiators are significant. We're not talking, you know, like 1.2% differences. We're talking 17 fold differences, we're talking six fold differences depending on, you know, where the spotlight is being shined and so forth. >>And so I think this is actually something that is actually too good to believe initially at first blush. If I'm a cloud database decision maker, I really have to prioritize this. I really would know, pay a lot more attention to this. And that's why I posed the question to Oracle and others like, okay, if these differentiators are so significant, why isn't the needle moving a bit more? And it's for, you know, some of the usual reasons. One is really deep discounting coming from, you know, the other players that's really kind of, you know, marketing 1 0 1, this is something you need to do when there's a real competitive threat to keep, you know, a customer in your own customer base. Plus there is the usual fear and uncertainty about moving from one platform to another. But I think, you know, the traction, the momentum is, is shifting an Oracle's favor. I think we saw that in the Q1 efforts, for example, where Oracle cloud grew 44% and that it generated, you know, 4.8 billion and revenue if I recall correctly. And so, so all these are demonstrating that's Oracle is making, I think many of the right moves, publishing these figures for anybody to look at from their own perspective is something that is, I think, good for the market and I think it's just gonna continue to pay dividends for Oracle down the horizon as you know, competition intens plots. So if I were in, >>Dave, can I, Dave, can I interject something and, and what Ron just said there? Yeah, please go ahead. A couple things here, one discounting, which is a common practice when you have a real threat, as Ron pointed out, isn't going to help much in this situation simply because you can't discount to the point where you improve your performance and the performance is a huge differentiator. You may be able to get your price down, but the problem that most of them have is they don't have an integrated product service. They don't have an integrated O L T P O L A P M L N data lake. Even if you cut out two of them, they don't have any of them integrated. They have multiple services that are required separate integration and that can't be overcome with discounting. And the, they, you have to pay for each one of these. And oh, by the way, as you grow, the discounts go away. So that's a, it's a minor important detail. >>So, so that's a TCO question mark, right? And I know you look at this a lot, if I had that kind of price performance advantage, I would be pounding tco, especially if I need two separate databases to do the job. That one can do, that's gonna be, the TCO numbers are gonna be off the chart or maybe down the chart, which you want. Have you looked at this and how does it compare with, you know, the big cloud guys, for example, >>I've looked at it in depth, in fact, I'm working on another TCO on this arena, but you can find it on Wiki bod in which I compared TCO for MySEQ Heat wave versus Aurora plus Redshift plus ML plus Blue. I've compared it against gcps services, Azure services, Snowflake with other services. And there's just no comparison. The, the TCO differences are huge. More importantly, thefor, the, the TCO per performance is huge. We're talking in some cases multiple orders of magnitude, but at least an order of magnitude difference. So discounting isn't gonna help you much at the end of the day, it's only going to lower your cost a little, but it doesn't improve the automation, it doesn't improve the performance, it doesn't improve the time to insight, it doesn't improve all those things that you want out of a database or multiple databases because you >>Can't discount yourself to a higher value proposition. >>So what about, I wonder ho if you could chime in on the developer angle. You, you followed that, that market. How do these innovations from heatwave, I think you used the term developer velocity. I've heard you used that before. Yeah, I mean, look, Oracle owns Java, okay, so it, it's, you know, most popular, you know, programming language in the world, blah, blah blah. But it does it have the, the minds and hearts of, of developers and does, where does heatwave fit into that equation? >>I think heatwave is gaining quickly mindshare on the developer side, right? It's not the traditional no sequel database which grew up, there's a traditional mistrust of oracles to developers to what was happening to open source when gets acquired. Like in the case of Oracle versus Java and where my sql, right? And, but we know it's not a good competitive strategy to, to bank on Oracle screwing up because it hasn't worked not on Java known my sequel, right? And for developers, it's, once you get to know a technology product and you can do more, it becomes kind of like a Swiss army knife and you can build more use case, you can build more powerful applications. That's super, super important because you don't have to get certified in multiple databases. You, you are fast at getting things done, you achieve fire, develop velocity, and the managers are happy because they don't have to license more things, send you to more trainings, have more risk of something not being delivered, right? >>So it's really the, we see the suite where this best of breed play happening here, which in general was happening before already with Oracle's flagship database. Whereas those Amazon as an example, right? And now the interesting thing is every step away Oracle was always a one database company that can be only one and they're now generally talking about heat web and that two database company with different market spaces, but same value proposition of integrating more things very, very quickly to have a universal database that I call, they call the converge database for all the needs of an enterprise to run certain application use cases. And that's what's attractive to developers. >>It's, it's ironic isn't it? I mean I, you know, the rumor was the TK Thomas Curian left Oracle cuz he wanted to put Oracle database on other clouds and other places. And maybe that was the rift. Maybe there was, I'm sure there was other things, but, but Oracle clearly is now trying to expand its Tam Ron with, with heatwave into aws, into Azure. How do you think Oracle's gonna do, you were at a cloud world, what was the sentiment from customers and the independent analyst? Is this just Oracle trying to screw with the competition, create a little diversion? Or is this, you know, serious business for Oracle? What do you think? >>No, I think it has lakes. I think it's definitely, again, attriting to Oracle's overall ability to differentiate not only my SQL heat wave, but its overall portfolio. And I think the fact that they do have the alliance with the Azure in place, that this is definitely demonstrating their commitment to meeting the multi-cloud needs of its customers as well as what we pointed to in terms of the fact that they're now offering, you know, MySQL capabilities within AWS natively and that it can now perform AWS's own offering. And I think this is all demonstrating that Oracle is, you know, not letting up, they're not resting on its laurels. That's clearly we are living in a multi-cloud world, so why not just make it more easy for customers to be able to use cloud databases according to their own specific, specific needs. And I think, you know, to holder's point, I think that definitely lines with being able to bring on more application developers to leverage these capabilities. >>I think one important announcement that's related to all this was the JSON relational duality capabilities where now it's a lot easier for application developers to use a language that they're very familiar with a JS O and not have to worry about going into relational databases to store their J S O N application coding. So this is, I think an example of the innovation that's enhancing the overall Oracle portfolio and certainly all the work with machine learning is definitely paying dividends as well. And as a result, I see Oracle continue to make these inroads that we pointed to. But I agree with Mark, you know, the short term discounting is just a stall tag. This is not denying the fact that Oracle is being able to not only deliver price performance differentiators that are dramatic, but also meeting a wide range of needs for customers out there that aren't just limited device performance consideration. >>Being able to support multi-cloud according to customer needs. Being able to reach out to the application developer community and address a very specific challenge that has plagued them for many years now. So bring it all together. Yeah, I see this as just enabling Oracles who ring true with customers. That the customers that were there were basically all of them, even though not all of them are going to be saying the same things, they're all basically saying positive feedback. And likewise, I think the analyst community is seeing this. It's always refreshing to be able to talk to customers directly and at Oracle cloud there was a litany of them and so this is just a difference maker as well as being able to talk to strategic partners. The nvidia, I think partnerships also testament to Oracle's ongoing ability to, you know, make the ecosystem more user friendly for the customers out there. >>Yeah, it's interesting when you get these all in one tools, you know, the Swiss Army knife, you expect that it's not able to be best of breed. That's the kind of surprising thing that I'm hearing about, about heatwave. I want to, I want to talk about Lake House because when I think of Lake House, I think data bricks, and to my knowledge data bricks hasn't been in the sites of Oracle yet. Maybe they're next, but, but Oracle claims that MySQL, heatwave, Lakehouse is a breakthrough in terms of capacity and performance. Mark, what are your thoughts on that? Can you double click on, on Lakehouse Oracle's claims for things like query performance and data loading? What does it mean for the market? Is Oracle really leading in, in the lake house competitive landscape? What are your thoughts? >>Well, but name in the game is what are the problems you're solving for the customer? More importantly, are those problems urgent or important? If they're urgent, customers wanna solve 'em. Now if they're important, they might get around to them. So you look at what they're doing with Lake House or previous to that machine learning or previous to that automation or previous to that O L A with O ltp and they're merging all this capability together. If you look at Snowflake or data bricks, they're tacking one problem. You look at MyQ heat wave, they're tacking multiple problems. So when you say, yeah, their queries are much better against the lake house in combination with other analytics in combination with O ltp and the fact that there are no ETLs. So you're getting all this done in real time. So it's, it's doing the query cross, cross everything in real time. >>You're solving multiple user and developer problems, you're increasing their ability to get insight faster, you're having shorter response times. So yeah, they really are solving urgent problems for customers. And by putting it where the customer lives, this is the brilliance of actually being multicloud. And I know I'm backing up here a second, but by making it work in AWS and Azure where people already live, where they already have applications, what they're saying is, we're bringing it to you. You don't have to come to us to get these, these benefits, this value overall, I think it's a brilliant strategy. I give Nip and Argo wallet a huge, huge kudos for what he's doing there. So yes, what they're doing with the lake house is going to put notice on data bricks and Snowflake and everyone else for that matter. Well >>Those are guys that whole ago you, you and I have talked about this. Those are, those are the guys that are doing sort of the best of breed. You know, they're really focused and they, you know, tend to do well at least out of the gate. Now you got Oracle's converged philosophy, obviously with Oracle database. We've seen that now it's kicking in gear with, with heatwave, you know, this whole thing of sweets versus best of breed. I mean the long term, you know, customers tend to migrate towards suite, but the new shiny toy tends to get the growth. How do you think this is gonna play out in cloud database? >>Well, it's the forever never ending story, right? And in software right suite, whereas best of breed and so far in the long run suites have always won, right? So, and sometimes they struggle again because the inherent problem of sweets is you build something larger, it has more complexity and that means your cycles to get everything working together to integrate the test that roll it out, certify whatever it is, takes you longer, right? And that's not the case. It's a fascinating part of what the effort around my SQL heat wave is that the team is out executing the previous best of breed data, bringing us something together. Now if they can maintain that pace, that's something to to, to be seen. But it, the strategy, like what Mark was saying, bring the software to the data is of course interesting and unique and totally an Oracle issue in the past, right? >>Yeah. But it had to be in your database on oci. And but at, that's an interesting part. The interesting thing on the Lake health side is, right, there's three key benefits of a lakehouse. The first one is better reporting analytics, bring more rich information together, like make the, the, the case for silicon angle, right? We want to see engagements for this video, we want to know what's happening. That's a mixed transactional video media use case, right? Typical Lakehouse use case. The next one is to build more rich applications, transactional applications which have video and these elements in there, which are the engaging one. And the third one, and that's where I'm a little critical and concerned, is it's really the base platform for artificial intelligence, right? To run deep learning to run things automatically because they have all the data in one place can create in one way. >>And that's where Oracle, I know that Ron talked about Invidia for a moment, but that's where Oracle doesn't have the strongest best story. Nonetheless, the two other main use cases of the lake house are very strong, very well only concern is four 50 terabyte sounds long. It's an arbitrary limitation. Yeah, sounds as big. So for the start, and it's the first word, they can make that bigger. You don't want your lake house to be limited and the terabyte sizes or any even petabyte size because you want to have the certainty. I can put everything in there that I think it might be relevant without knowing what questions to ask and query those questions. >>Yeah. And you know, in the early days of no schema on right, it just became a mess. But now technology has evolved to allow us to actually get more value out of that data. Data lake. Data swamp is, you know, not much more, more, more, more logical. But, and I want to get in, in a moment, I want to come back to how you think the competitors are gonna respond. Are they gonna have to sort of do a more of a converged approach? AWS in particular? But before I do, Ron, I want to ask you a question about autopilot because I heard Larry Ellison's keynote and he was talking about how, you know, most security issues are human errors with autonomy and autonomous database and things like autopilot. We take care of that. It's like autonomous vehicles, they're gonna be safer. And I went, well maybe, maybe someday. So Oracle really tries to emphasize this, that every time you see an announcement from Oracle, they talk about new, you know, autonomous capabilities. It, how legit is it? Do people care? What about, you know, what's new for heatwave Lakehouse? How much of a differentiator, Ron, do you really think autopilot is in this cloud database space? >>Yeah, I think it will definitely enhance the overall proposition. I don't think people are gonna buy, you know, lake house exclusively cause of autopilot capabilities, but when they look at the overall picture, I think it will be an added capability bonus to Oracle's benefit. And yeah, I think it's kind of one of these age old questions, how much do you automate and what is the bounce to strike? And I think we all understand with the automatic car, autonomous car analogy that there are limitations to being able to use that. However, I think it's a tool that basically every organization out there needs to at least have or at least evaluate because it goes to the point of it helps with ease of use, it helps make automation more balanced in terms of, you know, being able to test, all right, let's automate this process and see if it works well, then we can go on and switch on on autopilot for other processes. >>And then, you know, that allows, for example, the specialists to spend more time on business use cases versus, you know, manual maintenance of, of the cloud database and so forth. So I think that actually is a, a legitimate value proposition. I think it's just gonna be a case by case basis. Some organizations are gonna be more aggressive with putting automation throughout their processes throughout their organization. Others are gonna be more cautious. But it's gonna be, again, something that will help the overall Oracle proposition. And something that I think will be used with caution by many organizations, but other organizations are gonna like, hey, great, this is something that is really answering a real problem. And that is just easing the use of these databases, but also being able to better handle the automation capabilities and benefits that come with it without having, you know, a major screwup happened and the process of transitioning to more automated capabilities. >>Now, I didn't attend cloud world, it's just too many red eyes, you know, recently, so I passed. But one of the things I like to do at those events is talk to customers, you know, in the spirit of the truth, you know, they, you know, you'd have the hallway, you know, track and to talk to customers and they say, Hey, you know, here's the good, the bad and the ugly. So did you guys, did you talk to any customers my SQL Heatwave customers at, at cloud world? And and what did you learn? I don't know, Mark, did you, did you have any luck and, and having some, some private conversations? >>Yeah, I had quite a few private conversations. The one thing before I get to that, I want disagree with one point Ron made, I do believe there are customers out there buying the heat wave service, the MySEQ heat wave server service because of autopilot. Because autopilot is really revolutionary in many ways in the sense for the MySEQ developer in that it, it auto provisions, it auto parallel loads, IT auto data places it auto shape predictions. It can tell you what machine learning models are going to tell you, gonna give you your best results. And, and candidly, I've yet to meet a DBA who didn't wanna give up pedantic tasks that are pain in the kahoo, which they'd rather not do and if it's long as it was done right for them. So yes, I do think people are buying it because of autopilot and that's based on some of the conversations I had with customers at Oracle Cloud World. >>In fact, it was like, yeah, that's great, yeah, we get fantastic performance, but this really makes my life easier and I've yet to meet a DBA who didn't want to make their life easier. And it does. So yeah, I've talked to a few of them. They were excited. I asked them if they ran into any bugs, were there any difficulties in moving to it? And the answer was no. In both cases, it's interesting to note, my sequel is the most popular database on the planet. Well, some will argue that it's neck and neck with SQL Server, but if you add in Mariah DB and ProCon db, which are forks of MySQL, then yeah, by far and away it's the most popular. And as a result of that, everybody for the most part has typically a my sequel database somewhere in their organization. So this is a brilliant situation for anybody going after MyQ, but especially for heat wave. And the customers I talk to love it. I didn't find anybody complaining about it. And >>What about the migration? We talked about TCO earlier. Did your t does your TCO analysis include the migration cost or do you kind of conveniently leave that out or what? >>Well, when you look at migration costs, there are different kinds of migration costs. By the way, the worst job in the data center is the data migration manager. Forget it, no other job is as bad as that one. You get no attaboys for doing it. Right? And then when you screw up, oh boy. So in real terms, anything that can limit data migration is a good thing. And when you look at Data Lake, that limits data migration. So if you're already a MySEQ user, this is a pure MySQL as far as you're concerned. It's just a, a simple transition from one to the other. You may wanna make sure nothing broke and every you, all your tables are correct and your schema's, okay, but it's all the same. So it's a simple migration. So it's pretty much a non-event, right? When you migrate data from an O LTP to an O L A P, that's an ETL and that's gonna take time. >>But you don't have to do that with my SQL heat wave. So that's gone when you start talking about machine learning, again, you may have an etl, you may not, depending on the circumstances, but again, with my SQL heat wave, you don't, and you don't have duplicate storage, you don't have to copy it from one storage container to another to be able to be used in a different database, which by the way, ultimately adds much more cost than just the other service. So yeah, I looked at the migration and again, the users I talked to said it was a non-event. It was literally moving from one physical machine to another. If they had a new version of MySEQ running on something else and just wanted to migrate it over or just hook it up or just connect it to the data, it worked just fine. >>Okay, so every day it sounds like you guys feel, and we've certainly heard this, my colleague David Foyer, the semi-retired David Foyer was always very high on heatwave. So I think you knows got some real legitimacy here coming from a standing start, but I wanna talk about the competition, how they're likely to respond. I mean, if your AWS and you got heatwave is now in your cloud, so there's some good aspects of that. The database guys might not like that, but the infrastructure guys probably love it. Hey, more ways to sell, you know, EC two and graviton, but you're gonna, the database guys in AWS are gonna respond. They're gonna say, Hey, we got Redshift, we got aqua. What's your thoughts on, on not only how that's gonna resonate with customers, but I'm interested in what you guys think will a, I never say never about aws, you know, and are they gonna try to build, in your view a converged Oola and o LTP database? You know, Snowflake is taking an ecosystem approach. They've added in transactional capabilities to the portfolio so they're not standing still. What do you guys see in the competitive landscape in that regard going forward? Maybe Holger, you could start us off and anybody else who wants to can chime in, >>Happy to, you mentioned Snowflake last, we'll start there. I think Snowflake is imitating that strategy, right? That building out original data warehouse and the clouds tasking project to really proposition to have other data available there because AI is relevant for everybody. Ultimately people keep data in the cloud for ultimately running ai. So you see the same suite kind of like level strategy, it's gonna be a little harder because of the original positioning. How much would people know that you're doing other stuff? And I just, as a former developer manager of developers, I just don't see the speed at the moment happening at Snowflake to become really competitive to Oracle. On the flip side, putting my Oracle hat on for a moment back to you, Mark and Iran, right? What could Oracle still add? Because the, the big big things, right? The traditional chasms in the database world, they have built everything, right? >>So I, I really scratched my hat and gave Nipon a hard time at Cloud world say like, what could you be building? Destiny was very conservative. Let's get the Lakehouse thing done, it's gonna spring next year, right? And the AWS is really hard because AWS value proposition is these small innovation teams, right? That they build two pizza teams, which can be fit by two pizzas, not large teams, right? And you need suites to large teams to build these suites with lots of functionalities to make sure they work together. They're consistent, they have the same UX on the administration side, they can consume the same way, they have the same API registry, can't even stop going where the synergy comes to play over suite. So, so it's gonna be really, really hard for them to change that. But AWS super pragmatic. They're always by themselves that they'll listen to customers if they learn from customers suite as a proposition. I would not be surprised if AWS trying to bring things closer together, being morely together. >>Yeah. Well how about, can we talk about multicloud if, if, again, Oracle is very on on Oracle as you said before, but let's look forward, you know, half a year or a year. What do you think about Oracle's moves in, in multicloud in terms of what kind of penetration they're gonna have in the marketplace? You saw a lot of presentations at at cloud world, you know, we've looked pretty closely at the, the Microsoft Azure deal. I think that's really interesting. I've, I've called it a little bit of early days of a super cloud. What impact do you think this is gonna have on, on the marketplace? But, but both. And think about it within Oracle's customer base, I have no doubt they'll do great there. But what about beyond its existing install base? What do you guys think? >>Ryan, do you wanna jump on that? Go ahead. Go ahead Ryan. No, no, no, >>That's an excellent point. I think it aligns with what we've been talking about in terms of Lakehouse. I think Lake House will enable Oracle to pull more customers, more bicycle customers onto the Oracle platforms. And I think we're seeing all the signs pointing toward Oracle being able to make more inroads into the overall market. And that includes garnishing customers from the leaders in, in other words, because they are, you know, coming in as a innovator, a an alternative to, you know, the AWS proposition, the Google cloud proposition that they have less to lose and there's a result they can really drive the multi-cloud messaging to resonate with not only their existing customers, but also to be able to, to that question, Dave's posing actually garnish customers onto their platform. And, and that includes naturally my sequel but also OCI and so forth. So that's how I'm seeing this playing out. I think, you know, again, Oracle's reporting is indicating that, and I think what we saw, Oracle Cloud world is definitely validating the idea that Oracle can make more waves in the overall market in this regard. >>You know, I, I've floated this idea of Super cloud, it's kind of tongue in cheek, but, but there, I think there is some merit to it in terms of building on top of hyperscale infrastructure and abstracting some of the, that complexity. And one of the things that I'm most interested in is industry clouds and an Oracle acquisition of Cerner. I was struck by Larry Ellison's keynote, it was like, I don't know, an hour and a half and an hour and 15 minutes was focused on healthcare transformation. Well, >>So vertical, >>Right? And so, yeah, so you got Oracle's, you know, got some industry chops and you, and then you think about what they're building with, with not only oci, but then you got, you know, MyQ, you can now run in dedicated regions. You got ADB on on Exadata cloud to customer, you can put that OnPrem in in your data center and you look at what the other hyperscalers are, are doing. I I say other hyperscalers, I've always said Oracle's not really a hyperscaler, but they got a cloud so they're in the game. But you can't get, you know, big query OnPrem, you look at outposts, it's very limited in terms of, you know, the database support and again, that that will will evolve. But now you got Oracle's got, they announced Alloy, we can white label their cloud. So I'm interested in what you guys think about these moves, especially the industry cloud. We see, you know, Walmart is doing sort of their own cloud. You got Goldman Sachs doing a cloud. Do you, you guys, what do you think about that and what role does Oracle play? Any thoughts? >>Yeah, let me lemme jump on that for a moment. Now, especially with the MyQ, by making that available in multiple clouds, what they're doing is this follows the philosophy they've had the past with doing cloud, a customer taking the application and the data and putting it where the customer lives. If it's on premise, it's on premise. If it's in the cloud, it's in the cloud. By making the mice equal heat wave, essentially a plug compatible with any other mice equal as far as your, your database is concern and then giving you that integration with O L A P and ML and Data Lake and everything else, then what you've got is a compelling offering. You're making it easier for the customer to use. So I look the difference between MyQ and the Oracle database, MyQ is going to capture market more market share for them. >>You're not gonna find a lot of new users for the Oracle debate database. Yeah, there are always gonna be new users, don't get me wrong, but it's not gonna be a huge growth. Whereas my SQL heatwave is probably gonna be a major growth engine for Oracle going forward. Not just in their own cloud, but in AWS and in Azure and on premise over time that eventually it'll get there. It's not there now, but it will, they're doing the right thing on that basis. They're taking the services and when you talk about multicloud and making them available where the customer wants them, not forcing them to go where you want them, if that makes sense. And as far as where they're going in the future, I think they're gonna take a page outta what they've done with the Oracle database. They'll add things like JSON and XML and time series and spatial over time they'll make it a, a complete converged database like they did with the Oracle database. The difference being Oracle database will scale bigger and will have more transactions and be somewhat faster. And my SQL will be, for anyone who's not on the Oracle database, they're, they're not stupid, that's for sure. >>They've done Jason already. Right. But I give you that they could add graph and time series, right. Since eat with, Right, Right. Yeah, that's something absolutely right. That's, that's >>A sort of a logical move, right? >>Right. But that's, that's some kid ourselves, right? I mean has worked in Oracle's favor, right? 10 x 20 x, the amount of r and d, which is in the MyQ space, has been poured at trying to snatch workloads away from Oracle by starting with IBM 30 years ago, 20 years ago, Microsoft and, and, and, and didn't work, right? Database applications are extremely sticky when they run, you don't want to touch SIM and grow them, right? So that doesn't mean that heat phase is not an attractive offering, but it will be net new things, right? And what works in my SQL heat wave heat phases favor a little bit is it's not the massive enterprise applications which have like we the nails like, like you might be only running 30% or Oracle, but the connections and the interfaces into that is, is like 70, 80% of your enterprise. >>You take it out and it's like the spaghetti ball where you say, ah, no I really don't, don't want to do all that. Right? You don't, don't have that massive part with the equals heat phase sequel kind of like database which are more smaller tactical in comparison, but still I, I don't see them taking so much share. They will be growing because of a attractive value proposition quickly on the, the multi-cloud, right? I think it's not really multi-cloud. If you give people the chance to run your offering on different clouds, right? You can run it there. The multi-cloud advantages when the Uber offering comes out, which allows you to do things across those installations, right? I can migrate data, I can create data across something like Google has done with B query Omni, I can run predictive models or even make iron models in different place and distribute them, right? And Oracle is paving the road for that, but being available on these clouds. But the multi-cloud capability of database which knows I'm running on different clouds that is still yet to be built there. >>Yeah. And >>That the problem with >>That, that's the super cloud concept that I flowed and I I've always said kinda snowflake with a single global instance is sort of, you know, headed in that direction and maybe has a league. What's the issue with that mark? >>Yeah, the problem with the, with that version, the multi-cloud is clouds to charge egress fees. As long as they charge egress fees to move data between clouds, it's gonna make it very difficult to do a real multi-cloud implementation. Even Snowflake, which runs multi-cloud, has to pass out on the egress fees of their customer when data moves between clouds. And that's really expensive. I mean there, there is one customer I talked to who is beta testing for them, the MySQL heatwave and aws. The only reason they didn't want to do that until it was running on AWS is the egress fees were so great to move it to OCI that they couldn't afford it. Yeah. Egress fees are the big issue but, >>But Mark the, the point might be you might wanna root query and only get the results set back, right was much more tinier, which been the answer before for low latency between the class A problem, which we sometimes still have but mostly don't have. Right? And I think in general this with fees coming down based on the Oracle general E with fee move and it's very hard to justify those, right? But, but it's, it's not about moving data as a multi-cloud high value use case. It's about doing intelligent things with that data, right? Putting into other places, replicating it, what I'm saying the same thing what you said before, running remote queries on that, analyzing it, running AI on it, running AI models on that. That's the interesting thing. Cross administered in the same way. Taking things out, making sure compliance happens. Making sure when Ron says I don't want to be American anymore, I want to be in the European cloud that is gets migrated, right? So tho those are the interesting value use case which are really, really hard for enterprise to program hand by hand by developers and they would love to have out of the box and that's yet the innovation to come to, we have to come to see. But the first step to get there is that your software runs in multiple clouds and that's what Oracle's doing so well with my SQL >>Guys. Amazing. >>Go ahead. Yeah. >>Yeah. >>For example, >>Amazing amount of data knowledge and, and brain power in this market. Guys, I really want to thank you for coming on to the cube. Ron Holger. Mark, always a pleasure to have you on. Really appreciate your time. >>Well all the last names we're very happy for Romanic last and moderator. Thanks Dave for moderating us. All right, >>We'll see. We'll see you guys around. Safe travels to all and thank you for watching this power panel, The Truth About My SQL Heat Wave on the cube. Your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage.

>>Hey guys. Welcome back to the Cubes coverage of Ansible Fast 2022. This is day two of our wall to wall coverage. Lisa Martin here with John Ferer. John, we're seeing this world where companies are saying if we can't automate it, we need to, The automation market is transforming. There's been a lot of buzz about that. A lot of technical chops here at Ansible Fest. >>Yeah, I mean, we've got a great guest here coming on Cuba alumni, Dean Newman, future room. He travels every event he's got. He's got his nose to the grindstone ear to the ground. Great analysis. I mean, we're gonna get into why it's important. How does Ansible fit into the big picture? It's really gonna be a great segment. The >>Board do it well, John just did my job for me about, I'll introduce him again. Daniel Newman, one of our alumni is Back Principal Analyst at Future and Research. Great to have you back on the cube. >>Yeah, it's good to join you. Excited to be back in Chicago. I don't know if you guys knew this, but for 40 years, this was my hometown. Now I don't necessarily brag about that anymore. I'm, I live in Austin now. I'm a proud Texan, but I did grow up here actually out in the west suburbs. I got off the plane, I felt the cold air, and I almost turned around and said, Does this thing go back? Yeah. Cause I'm, I've, I've grown thin skin. It did not take me long. I, I like the warm, Come on, >>I'm the saying, I'm from California and I got off the plane Monday. I went, Whoa, I need a coat. And I was in Miami a week ago and it was 85. >>Oh goodness. >>Crazy. So you just flew in. Talk about what's going on, your take on, on Ansible. We've talked a lot with the community, with partners, with customers, a lot of momentum. The flywheel of the community is going around and round and round. What are some of your perspectives that you see? >>Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's you know, I'm gonna take a quick step back. We're entering an era where companies are gonna have to figure out how to do more with less. Okay? We've got exponential data growth, we've got more architectural complexity than ever before. Companies are trying to discern how to deal with many different environments. And just at a macro level, Red Hat is one of the companies that is almost certainly gonna be part of this multi-cloud hybrid cloud era. So that should initially give a lot of confidence to the buying group that are looking at how to automate their environments. You're automating workflows, but really with, with Ansible, we're focused on automating it, automating the network. So as companies are kind of dig out, we're entering this recessionary period, Okay, we're gonna call it what it is. The first thing that they're gonna look at is how do we tech our way out of it? >>I had a wonderful one-on-one conversation with ServiceNow ceo, Bill McDermott, and we saw ServiceNow was in focus this morning in the initial opening session. This is the integration, right? Ansible integrating with ServiceNow. What we need to see is infrastructure automation, layers and applications working in concert to basically enable enterprises to be up and running all the time. Let's first fix the problems that are most common. Let's, let's automate 'em, let's script them. And then at some point, let's have them self resolving, which we saw at the end with Project Wisdom. So as I see it, automation is that layer that enterprises, boards, technologists, all can agree upon are basically here's something that can make our business more efficient, more profitable, and it's gonna deal with this short term downturn in a way that tech is actually gonna be the answer. Just like Bill and I said, let's tech our way out of it. >>If you look at the Red Hat being bought by ibm, you see Project Wisdom Project, not a product, it's a project. Project Wisdom is the confluence of research and practitioners kind of coming together with ai. So bringing AI power to the Ansible is interesting. Red Hat, Linux, Rel OpenShift, I mean, Red Hat's kind of position, isn't it? Kind of be in that right spot where a puck might be coming maybe. I mean, what do you think? >>Yeah, as analysts, we're really good at predicting the, the recent past. It's a joke I always like to make, but Red Hat's been building toward the future. I think for some time. Project Wisdom, first of all, I was very encouraged with it. One of the things that many people in the market probably have commented on is how close is IBM in Red Hat? Now, again, it's a $34 billion acquisition that was made, but boy, the cultures of these two companies couldn't be more different. And of course, Red Hat kind of carries this, this sort of middle ground layer where they provide a lot of value in services to companies that maybe don't use IBM at, at, for the public cloud especially. This was a great indication of how you can take the power of IBM's research, which of course has some of the world's most prolific data scientists, engineers, building things for the future. >>You know, you see things like yesterday they launched a, you know, an AI solution. You know, they're building chips, semiconductors, and technologies that are gonna power the future. They're building quantum. Long story short, they have these really brilliant technologists here that could be adding value to Red Hat. And I don't know that the, the world has fully been able to appreciate that. So when, when they got on stage and they kind of say, Here's how IBM is gonna help power the next generation, I was immediately very encouraged by the fact that the two companies are starting to show signs of how they can collaborate to offer value to their customers. Because of course, as John kind of started off with, his question is, they've kind of been where the puck is going. Open source, Linux hybrid cloud, This is the future. In the future. Every company's multi-cloud. And I said in a one-on-one meeting this morning, every company is going to probably have workloads on every cloud, especially large enterprises. >>Yeah. And I think that the secret's gonna be how do you make that evolve? And one of the things that's coming out of the industry over the years, and looking back as historians, we would say, gotta have standards. Well, with cloud, now people standards might slow things down. So you're gonna start to figure out how does the community and the developers are thinking it'll be the canary in the coal mine. And I'd love to get your reaction on that, because we got Cuban next week. You're seeing people kind of align and try to win the developers, which, you know, I always laugh cuz like, you don't wanna win, you want, you want them on your team, but you don't wanna win them. It's like a, it's like, so developers will decide, >>Well, I, I think what's happening is there are multiple forces that are driving product adoption. And John, getting the developers to support the utilization and adoption of any sort of stack goes a long way. We've seen how sticky it can be, how sticky it is with many of the public cloud pro providers, how sticky it is with certain applications. And it's gonna be sticky here in these interim layers like open source automation. And Red Hat does have a very compelling developer ecosystem. I mean, if you sat in the keynote this morning, I said, you know, if you're not a developer, some of this stuff would've been fairly difficult to understand. But as a developer you saw them laughing at jokes because, you know, what was it the whole part about, you know, it didn't actually, the ping wasn't a success, right? And everybody started laughing and you know, I, I was sitting next to someone who wasn't technical and, and you know, she kinda goes, What, what was so funny? >>I'm like, well, he said it worked. Do you see that? It said zero data trans or whatever that was. So, but if I may just really quickly, one, one other thing I did wanna say about Project Wisdom, John, that the low code and no code to the full stack developer is a continuum that every technology company is gonna have to think deeply about as we go to the future. Because the people that tend to know the process that needs to be automated tend to not be able to code it. And so we've seen every automation company on the planet sort of figuring out and how to address this low code, no code environment. I think the power of this partnership between IBM Research and Red Hat is that they have an incredibly deep bench of capabilities to do things like, like self-training. Okay, you've got so much data, such significant size models and accuracy is a problem, but we need systems that can self teach. They need to be able self-teach, self learn, self-heal so that we can actually get to the crux of what automation is supposed to do for us. And that's supposed to take the mundane out and enable those humans that know how to code to work on the really difficult and hard stuff because the automation's not gonna replace any of that stuff anytime soon. >>So where do you think looking at, at the partnership and the evolution of it between IBM research and Red Hat, and you're saying, you know, they're, they're, they're finally getting this synergy together. How is it gonna affect the future of automation and how is it poised to give them a competitive advantage in the market? >>Yeah, I think the future or the, the competitive space is that, that is, is ecosystems and integration. So yesterday you heard, you know, Red Hat Ansible focusing on a partnership with aws. You know, this week I was at Oracle Cloud world and they're talking about running their database in aws. And, and so I'm kind of going around to get to the answer to your question, but I think collaboration is sort of the future of growth and innovation. You need multiple companies working towards the same goal to put gobs of resources, that's the technical term, gobs of resources towards doing really hard things. And so Ansible has been very successful in automating and securing and focusing on very certain specific workloads that need to be automated, but we need more and there's gonna be more data created. The proliferation, especially the edge. So you saw all this stuff about Rockwell, How do you really automate the edge at scale? You need large models that are able to look and consume a ton of data that are gonna be continuously learning, and then eventually they're gonna be able to deliver value to these companies at scale. IBM plus Red Hat have really great resources to drive this kind of automation. Having said that, I see those partnerships with aws, with Microsoft, with ibm, with ServiceNow. It's not one player coming to the table. It's a lot of players. They >>Gotta be Switzerland. I mean they have the Switzerland. I mean, but the thing about the Amazon deal is like that marketplace integration essentially puts Ansible once a client's in on, on marketplace and you get the central on the same bill. I mean, that's gonna be a money maker for Ansible. I >>Couldn't agree more, John. I think being part of these public cloud marketplaces is gonna be so critical and having Ansible land and of course AWS largest public cloud by volume, largest marketplace today. And my opinion is that partnership will be extensible to the other public clouds over time. That just makes sense. And so you start, you know, I think we've learned this, John, you've done enough of these interviews that, you know, you start with the biggest, with the highest distribution and probability rates, which in this case right now is aws, but it'll land on in Azure, it'll land in Google and it'll continue to, to grow. And that kind of adoption, streamlining make it consumption more consumable. That's >>Always, I think, Red Hat and Ansible, you nailed it on that whole point about multicloud, because what happens then is why would I want to alienate a marketplace audience to use my product when it could span multiple environments, right? So you saw, you heard that Stephanie yesterday talk about they, they didn't say multiple clouds, multiple environments. And I think that is where I think I see this layer coming in because some companies just have to work on all clouds. That's the way it has to be. Why wouldn't you? >>Yeah. Well every, every company will probably end up with some workloads in every cloud. I just think that is the fate. Whether it's how we consume our SaaS, which a lot of people don't think about, but it always tends to be running on another hyperscale public cloud. Most companies tend to be consuming some workloads from every cloud. It's not always direct. So they might have a single control plane that they tend to lead the way with, but that is only gonna continue to change. And every public cloud company seems to be working on figuring out what their niche is. What is the one thing that sort of drives whether, you know, it is, you know, traditional, we know the commoditization of traditional storage network compute. So now you're seeing things like ai, things like automation, things like the edge collaboration tools, software being put into the, to the forefront because it's a different consumption model, it's a different margin and economic model. And then of course it gives competitive advantages. And we've seen that, you know, I came back from Google Cloud next and at Google Cloud next, you know, you can see they're leaning into the data AI cloud. I mean, that is their focus, like data ai. This is how we get people to come in and start using Google, who in most cases, they're probably using AWS or Microsoft today. >>It's a great specialty cloud right there. That's a big use case. I can run data on Google and run something on aws. >>And then of course you've got all kinds of, and this is a little off topic, but you got sovereignty, compliance, regulatory that tends to drive different clouds over, you know, global clouds like Tencent and Alibaba. You know, if your workloads are in China, >>Well, this comes back down at least to the whole complexity issue. I mean, it has to get complex before it gets easier. And I think that's what we're seeing companies opportunities like Ansible to be like, Okay, tame, tame the complexity. >>Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I mean, look, when I was watching the demonstrations today, my take is there's so many kind of simple, repeatable and mundane tasks in everyday life that enterprises need to, to automate. Do that first, you know? Then the second thing is working on how do you create self-healing, self-teaching, self-learning, You know, and, and I realize I'm a little broken of a broken record at this, but these are those first things to fix. You know, I know we want to jump to the future where we automate every task and we have multi-term conversational AI that is booking our calendars and driving our cars for us. But in the first place, we just need to say, Hey, the network's down. Like, let's make sure that we can quickly get access back to that network again. Let's make sure that we're able to reach our different zones and locations. Let's make sure that robotic arm is continually doing the thing it's supposed to be doing on the schedule that it's been committed to. That's first. And then we can get to some of these really intensive deep metaverse state of automation that we talk about. Self-learning, data replication, synthetic data. I'm just gonna throw terms around. So I sound super smart. >>In your customer conversations though, from an looking at the automation journey, are you finding most of them, or some percentage is, is wanting to go directly into those really complex projects rather than starting with the basics? >>I don't know that you're, you're finding that the customers want to do that? I think it's the architecture that often ends up being a problem is we as, as the vendor side, will tend to talk about the most complex problems that they're able to solve before companies have really started solving the, the immediate problems that are before them. You know, it's, we talk about, you know, the metaphor of the cloud is a great one, but we talk about the cloud, like it's ubiquitous. Yeah. But less than 30% of our workloads are in the public cloud. Automation is still in very early days and in many industries it's fairly nascent. And doing things like self-healing networks is still something that hasn't even been able to be deployed on an enterprise-wide basis, let alone at the industrial layer. Maybe at the company's on manufacturing PLAs or in oil fields. Like these are places that have difficult to reach infrastructure that needs to be running all the time. We need to build systems and leverage the power of automation to keep that stuff up and running. That's, that's just business value, which by the way is what makes the world go running. Yeah. Awesome. >>A lot of customers and users are struggling to find what's the value in automating certain process, What's the ROI in it? How do you help them get there so that they understand how to start, but truly to make it a journey that is a success. >>ROI tends to be a little bit nebulous. It's one of those things I think a lot of analysts do. Things like TCO analysis Yeah. Is an ROI analysis. I think the businesses actually tend to know what the ROI is gonna be because they can basically look at something like, you know, when you have an msa, here's the downtime, right? Business can typically tell you, you know, I guarantee you Amazon could say, Look for every second of downtime, this is how much commerce it costs us. Yeah. A company can generally say, if it was, you know, we had the energy, the windmills company, like they could say every minute that windmill isn't running, we're creating, you know, X amount less energy. So there's a, there's a time value proposition that companies can determine. Now the question is, is about the deployment. You know, we, I've seen it more nascent, like cybersecurity can tend to be nascent. >>Like what does a breach cost us? Well there's, you know, specific costs of actually getting the breach cured or paying for the cybersecurity services. And then there's the actual, you know, ephemeral costs of brand damage and of risks and customer, you know, negative customer sentiment that potentially comes out of it. With automation, I think it's actually pretty well understood. They can look at, hey, if we can do this many more cycles, if we can keep our uptime at this rate, if we can reduce specific workforce, and I'm always very careful about this because I don't believe automation is about replacement or displacement, but I do think it is about up-leveling and it is about helping people work on things that are complex problems that machines can't solve. I mean, said that if you don't need to put as many bodies on something that can be immediately returned to the organization's bottom line, or those resources can be used for something more innovative. So all those things are pretty well understood. Getting the automation to full deployment at scale, though, I think what often, it's not that roi, it's the timeline that gets misunderstood. Like all it projects, they tend to take longer. And even when things are made really easy, like with what Project Wisdom is trying to do, semantically enable through low code, no code and the ability to get more accuracy, it just never tends to happen quite as fast. So, but that's not an automation problem, That's just the crux of it. >>Okay. What are some of the, the next things on your plate? You're quite a, a busy guy. We, you, you were at Google, you were at Oracle, you're here today. What are some of the next things that we can expect from Daniel Newman? >>Oh boy, I moved Really, I do move really quickly and thank you for that. Well, I'm very excited. I'm taking a couple of work personal days. I don't know if you're a fan, but F1 is this weekend. I'm the US Grand Prix. Oh, you're gonna Austin. So I will be, I live in Austin. Oh. So I will be in Austin. I will be at the Grand Prix. It is work because it, you know, I'm going with a number of our clients that have, have sponsorships there. So I'll be spending time figuring out how the data that comes off of these really fun cars is meaningfully gonna change the world. I'll actually be talking to Splunk CEO at the, at the race on Saturday morning. But yeah, I got a lot of great things. I got a, a conversation coming up with the CEO of Twilio next week. We got a huge week of earnings ahead and so I do a lot of work on that. So I'll be on Bloomberg next week with Emily Chang talking about Microsoft and Google. Love talking to Emily, but just as much love being here on, on the queue with you >>Guys. Well we like to hear that. Who you're rooting for F one's your favorite driver. I, >>I, I like Lando. Do you? I'm Norris. I know it's not necessarily a fan favorite, but I'm a bit of a McLaren guy. I mean obviously I have clients with Oracle and Red Bull with Ball Common Ferrari. I've got Cly Splunk and so I have clients in all. So I'm cheering for all of 'em. And on Sunday I'm actually gonna be in the Williams Paddock. So I don't, I don't know if that's gonna gimme me a chance to really root for anything, but I'm always, always a big fan of the underdog. So maybe Latifi. >>There you go. And the data that comes off the how many central unbeliev, the car, it's crazy's. Such a scientific sport. Believable. >>We could have Christian, I was with Christian Horner yesterday, the team principal from Reside. Oh yeah, yeah. He was at the Oracle event and we did a q and a with him and with the CMO of, it's so much fun. F1 has been unbelievable to watch the momentum and what a great, you know, transitional conversation to to, to CX and automation of experiences for fans as the fan has grown by hundreds of percent. But just to circle back full way, I was very encouraged with what I saw today. Red Hat, Ansible, IBM Strong partnership. I like what they're doing in their expanded ecosystem. And automation, by the way, is gonna be one of the most robust investment areas over the next few years, even as other parts of tech continue to struggle that in cyber security. >>You heard it here. First guys, investment in automation and cyber security straight from two analysts. I got to sit between. For our guests and John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching The Cube Live from Chicago, Ansible Fest 22. John and I will be back after a short break. SO'S stick around.