(upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's cover of DockerCon Mainstage, I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here with Shubha Rao, Senior Manager, Product Manager at AWS, in the container services. Shubha, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Hi, thank you very much for having me, excited to be here. >> So obviously, we're doing a lot of coverage with AWS recently, on containers, cloud native, microservices and we see you guys always at the events. But tell me about what your role is in the organization? >> Yeah, so I lead the product management and developer advocacy team, in the AWS Container Services group, where we focus on elastic containers. And what I mean by elastic containers, is that, all the AWS opinionated, out of the box solutions that we have for you, like, you know, ECS and App Runner and Elastic BeanStalk. So where we bring in our services in a way that integrates with the AWS ecosystem. And, you know, my team manages the product management and speaking to customers and developers like you all, to understand how we can improve our services for you to use it more seamlessly. >> So, I mean, I know AWS has a lot of services tha t have containers involved with them and it's a lot of integration within the cloud. Amazon's as cloud native as you're going to get at AWS. If I was a new customer, where do I start with containers if you had to give me advice? And then, where I have a nice roadmap to grow within AWS. >> Yeah, no, that's a great question a lot of customers ask us this. We recommend that the customers choose whatever is the best fit for their application needs and for their operational flexibilities. So, if you have an application which you can use, pretty abstract and like end to end managed by AWS service, we recommend that you start at the highest level of abstraction that's okay to use for your application. And that means something like App Runner, where you can bring in a web application and run it like end to end. And if there are things that you want to control and tweak, then you know, we have services like ECS, where you get control and you get flexibility to tweak it to your needs. Be it needs of like, integrations or running your own agents and running your own partner solutions or even customizing how it scales and all the, you know, characteristics related to it. And of course we have, if there are a lot of our customers also run kubernetes, so that is a requirement for you, if your apps are already packaged to run, you know, easily with the kubernetes ecosystem, then we have, yes, for you. So, like application needs, the operational, how much of the operations do you want us to handle? Or how much of it do you want to actually have control over. And with all that, like the highest level of abstraction so that we can do the work on your behalf, which is the goal of AWS. >> Yeah, well, we always hear that all that heavy lifting, undifferentiated heavy lifting, you guys handle all that. Since you're in product management, I have to ask the question 'cause you guys have a little bit longer view, as you have think about what's on the roadmap. What type of customer trends are you seeing in container services? >> We see a lot of trends about customers who want to have the plugability for their, you know, services of choice. And our EKS offerings actually help in that. And we see customers who want an opinionated, you know, give me an out of the box solution, rather than building blocks. And ECS brings you that experience. The new strengths that we are seeing is that a lot of our customer workloads are also on their data centers and in their on-prem like environments. Be it branch offices or data centers or like, you know, other areas. And so we've recently launched the, anywhere offerings for you. So, ECS anywhere, brings you an experience for letting your workloads run and management that you control, where we manage the scaling and orchestration and the whole like, you know, monitoring and troubleshooting aspects of it. Which is the new trend, which seems to be something that our customers use as a way to migrate their applications to the cloud in the long term or just to get, you know, the same experience and the same, like, constructs that they're familiar with, come onto their data centers and their environments. >> You know, Shubha, we hear a lot about containers. It's becoming standard in the enterprise now, mainstream. But customers, when we talk to them, they kind of have this evolution, they start with containers and they realize how great it is and they become container full, right. And then you start to see kind of, them trying to evolve to the next level. And then you start to see EKS come into the equation. We see that in cloud native. Is EKS a container? Or is it a service? How does that work with everything? >> So EKS is a Amazon managed service, container service, where we do the operational set up, you know, upgrades and other things for the customer on their behalf. So basically, you get the same communities APIs that you get to use for your application but we handle a little bit of the integrations and the operations selected to keeping it up and running with high availability. in a way that actually meets your needs for the applications. >> And more and more people are dipping their toe in the water, as we say, with containers. What are some of the things you've seen customers do when they jump in and start implementing that kind of phase one containers? Also, there's a lot of head room beyond that, as you mentioned. What's the first couple steps that they take? They jump in,, is it a learning process? Is it serverless? Where is the connection points all come together? >> Great, so, I want to say that, no one solution that we have, fits all needs. Like, it's not the best case, best thing for all your use cases, and not for all of your applications. So, how it all comes together is that, AWS gives you a ecosystem of tools and capabilities. Some customers want to really build the, you know, castle themselves with each of the Lego block and some customers want it to be a ready made thing. And I want, you know, one of the things that I speak to customers about is, is to rethink which of the knobs and controls do they really need to have, you know because none of the services we have is a one way door. Like, there is always flexibility and, you know ability to move from one service to the other. So, my recommendation is to always like, start with things where Amazon handles many of the heavy lifting, you know, operations for you. And that means starting with something like, serverless offerings, where, like, for example, with Lambda and Forget, we manage the host, we manage the patching, we manage the monitoring. And that would be a great place for you to use ECS offering and, you know, basically get an end to end experience in a couple of days. And over time, if you have more needs, if you have more control, you know, if you want to bring in your own agents and whatever else you have, the option to use your own EC2 Instances or to take it to other, like, you know, parts of the AWS ecosystem, where you want to, you know, tweak it to your needs. >> Well, we're seeing a lot of great traction here at DockerCon. And all the momentum around containers. And then you're starting to get into trust and security supply chain, as open source becomes more exponentially in growth, it's growing like crazy, which is a great thing. So what can we expect to see from your team in the coming months, as this rolls forward? It's not going away anytime soon. It's going to be integrated and keep on scaling. What do we expect from the team in the next month or so? Couple of months. >> Security and, you know, is our number one job. So you will continue to see more and more features, capabilities and integrations, to ensure that your workloads are secure. Availability and scaling are the things that we do, you know, as keep the lights on. So, you should expect to see all of our services growing to make it like, more user friendly, easier, you know, simpler ways to get the whole availability and scaling to your needs, better. And then like, you know, very specifically, I want to touch on a few services. So App Runner, today we have support for public facing web services. You can expect that the number of use cases that you can meet with app runner is going to increase over time. You want to invest into making it AWS end to end workflow experience for our customers because, that's the easiest journey to the cloud. And we don't want you to actually wait for months and years to actually leverage the benefits of what AWS provides. ECS, we've already launched our, like, you know, Forget and Anywhere, to bring you more flexibility in terms of easier networking capabilities, more granular controls in deployment and more controls to actually help you plug in your preferred, you know, solution ties. And in EKS, we are going to continue to keep the communities, you know, versions and, you know, bring simpler experiences for you. >> A lot of nice growth there, containers, EKS, a lot more goodness in the cloud, obviously. We have 30 seconds left. Tell us what you're most excited about personally. And what should the developers pay attention to in this conference around containers and AWS? >> I would say that AWS has a lot of offerings but, you know, speak to us, like, come to us with your questions or, you know, anything that you have, like in terms of feature requests. We are very, very eager and happy to speak to you all. You know, you can engage with us on the container store map, which is on GitHub. Or you can find, you know, many of us in events like this, AWS Summits and, you know, DockerCon and many of the other meetups. Or find us on LinkedIn, we're always happy to chat. >> Yeah, always open, open source. Open source meets cloud scale, meets commercialization. All happening, all great stuff. Shubha, thank you for coming on theCUBE. Thanks for sharing. We'll send it back now to the DockerCon Mainstage. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>Okay, welcome back everyone. This is the cubes coverage here in San Francisco, California, a Davis summit, 2022, the beginning of the event season, as it comes back, little smaller footprint, a lot of hybrid events going on, but this is actually a physical event to his summit in new York's coming in the summer. We'll be there too with the cube on the set. We're getting back in the Groove's psych to be back. We were at reinvent, uh, as well, and we'll see more and more cube, but you're can see a lot of virtual cube outta hybrid cube. We wanna get all those conversations, try to get more interviews, more flow going. But right now I'm excited to have Corey Quinn here on the back on the cube chief cloud economists with duct bill, a group, he's the founder, uh, and chief content person always got great angles, fun comedy, authoritative Corey. Great to see you. Thank >>You. Thanks. Coming on. Sure is a lot of words to describe is shit posting, which is how I describe what I tend to do. Most days, >>Shit posting is an art form now. And if you look at mark, Andrew's been doing a lot of shit posting lately. All a billionaires are shit posting, but they don't know how to do it. Like they're not >>Doing it right. There's something opportunity there. It's like, here's how to be even more obnoxious and incisive. It's honestly the most terrifying scenario for anyone is if I have that kind of budget to throw at my endeavors, it's like, I get excited with a nonsense I can do with a $20 gift card for an AWS credit compared to, oh well, if I could buy a midsize island to in doing this from, oh, then we're having fun. >>This shit posting trend. Interesting. I was watching a thread go on about, saw someone didn't get a job because of their shit posting and the employer didn't get it. And then someone on this side, I'll hire the guy cuz I get that's highly intelligent shit posting. So for the audience that doesn't know what shit posting is, what is shit posting? >>It's more or less talking about the world of enterprise technology, which even that sentence is hard to finish without falling asleep and toppling out of my chair in front of everyone on the livestream, but it's doing it in such a way that brings it to life that says the quiet part. A lot of the audience is thinking, but generally doesn't say either because they're polite or not a jackass or more prosaically are worried about getting fired for better or worse. I don't have have that particular constraint, >>Which is why people love you. So let's talk about what you, what you think is, uh, worthy and not worthy in the industry right now, obviously, uh, coupons coming up in Spain, which they're having a physical event, you see the growth of cloud native Amazon's evolving Adams, especially new CEO. Andy's move on to be the chief of all Amazon. Just so I, the cover of was it time magazine, um, he's under a lot of stress. Amazon's changed. Invoice has changed. What's working. What's not, what's rising, what's falling. What's hot. What's not, >>It's easy to sit here and criticize almost anything. These folks do. They're they're effectively in a fishbowl, but I have trouble imagining the logistics. It takes to wind up handling the catering for a relat a downscale event like this one this year, let alone running a 1.7 million employee company having to balance all the competing challenges and pressures and the rest. I, I just can't fathom what it would be like to look at all of AWS. And it's, it's sprawling immense that dominates our entire industry and say, okay, this is a good start, but I, I wanna focus on something with a broader remit. What is that? How do you even get into that position? And you can't win once you're there. All you can do is hold onto the tiger and hope you don't get mold. Well, >>There's a lot of force for good conversations. Seeing a lot of that going on, Amazon's trying to port eight of us is trying to portray themselves as you know, the Pathfinder, you know, you're the pioneer, um, force for good. And I get that. I think that's a good angle as cloud goes mainstream. It's still the question of, we had a guy on just earlier, who was a skydiving instructor and we were joking about the early days of cloud. Like that was like skydiving, build a parachute open, you know, and now it's saying kind of thing, as you move to edge, things are like reliable in some areas, but still new, new fringe, new areas. That's crazy. Well, >>Since the last time we've spoken, uh, Steve Schmidt is now the CISO for all of Amazon and his backfill replacement. The AWS CISO is CJ. Moses who as a hobby race as a semi-pro race car driver to my understanding, which either, I don't know what direction to take that in either. This is what he does to relax or ultimately, or ultimately it's. Huh? That, that certainly says something about risk assessment. I'm not entirely sure what, but okay. Either way, sounds like more exciting, like better >>Have a replacement ready <laugh> in case something gonna was wrong on the track, >>Highly available >>CSOs. I gotta say one of the things I do like in the recent trend is that the tech companies are getting into the formula one, which I was never a fan of until I watched that Netflix series. But when you look at the formula one, it's pretty cool. Cause it's got some tech angles, I get the whole data instrumentation thing, but the most coolest thing about formula one is they have these new rigs out. Yeah. Where you can actually race in e-sports with, there are people in pure simulation of the race car. You gotta get the latest and video graphics card, but it's basically a tricked out PC with amazing monitors and you have all the equipment of F1 and you're basically simulating racing. >>Oh, it's great too. And I can see the appeal of these tech companies getting into it because these things are basically rocket chips. When those cars go like they're sitting there, we cans instrument every last part of what is going on inside that vehicle. And then AWS crops up. And we can bill on every one of those dimensions too. And it's like slow down their hasty pudding one step at a time. But I do see the appeal. >>So I gotta ask you about, uh, what's going on in your world. I know you have a lot of great success. We've been following you in the queue for many, many years. Got a great newsletter, check out Corey Quinn's newsletter, uh, screaming in the cloud program. Uh, you're on the cutting edge and you've got a great balance between really being snarky and, and, and really being delivering content. That's exciting, uh, for people, uh, with a little bit of an edge, um, how's that going? Uh, what's the blowback, any blowback lately? Has there been uptick? What was, what are some of the things you're hearing from your audience, more Corey or Corey, and then of course the, the PR team's calling you >>The weird thing about having an audience beyond a certain size is far and away as a landslide. The most common response I get is silence where it's huh? I'm emailing an awful lot of people at last week in AWS every week and okay. They must not have heard me it. That is not actually true. People just generally don't respond to email because who responds to email newsletters, that sounds like something, a lunatic might do same story with response to live streams and podcasts. It's like, I'm gonna call into that am radio show and give them a piece of my mind. People generally don't do that. >>We should do that. Actually. I think sure would call in. Oh, I, >>I think >>I guarantee we had that right now. People would call in and say, Cory, what do you think about X? >>Yeah. It not, everyone understands the full context of what I do. And in fact, increasingly few people do and that's fine. I, I keep forgetting that sometimes people do not see what I'm doing in the same light that I do. And that's fine. Blowback has been largely minimal. Honestly, I am surprised anything about how little I have gotten over the last five years of doing this, but it would be easier to dismiss me if I weren't generally. Right. When, okay, so you launch this new service and it seems pretty crappy to me cuz when I try and build something, it falls over and begs for help. And people might not like hearing that, but it's what customers are finding too. Yeah. I really am the voice of the customer. >>You know, I always joke with Dave ante about how John Fort's always at, uh, um, reinvent getting the interview with jazzy now, Andy we're there, you're there. And so we have these rituals at the events. It's all cool. Um, one of the rituals I like about your, um, your content is you like to get on the naming product names. Um, and, and, and, and, and kind of Google from that. Now why I like is because I used to work at ETT Packard where they used to name things as like engineers, HP 1 0 5, or we can't call, we >>Have a new monitor. How are we gonna name it? Throw the wireless keyboard down the stairs again. And there you go. Yeah. >>It's and the old joke at HP was if they, if they invented SU uh, sushi, they'd say, yeah, we can't call sushi. It's cold, dead fish. That's what it is. And so the joke was cold. Dead fish is a better name than sushi. So, you know, fun. So what's the, what are the, how's the Amazon doing in there? Have they changed their naming, uh, strategy, uh, on some of their, their >>Producting. So they're going in different directions. When they named Amazon Aurora, they decided to explore a new theme of Disney princesses as they go down those paths. And some things are more descriptive. Some people are clearly getting bonused on a number of words. They can shove into it. Like the better a service is the longer it's name. Like AWS systems manager, session manager is a great one. I love the service ridiculous name. They have a systems manager, parameter store, which is great. They have secrets manager, which does the same thing. It's two words less, but that one costs my in a way that systems manage through parameter store does not. It's fun. >>What's your, what's your favorite combination of acronyms >>Combination >>Of you got E Ks. You got EMR, you got EC two, you got S3 SQS. Well, RedShift's not an acronym. You >>Gots is one of my personal favorites because it's either elastic block store or elastic bean stock, depending into highly on the context of the conversation. They still >>Up Beanstalk or is that still around? >>Oh, they never turn anything off. They like the Antigo, Google turns things off while they're still building it. Whereas Amazon is like, well, we built this thing in 2005 and everyone hates it, but while we certainly can't change it, now it has three customers on it. John three <laugh>. Okay. Simple DV still haunts our dreams. >>I, I actually got an email on, I saw one of my, uh, servers, all these C twos were being deprecated and I got an email. I'm like, couldn't figure out. Why can you just like roll it over? Why, why are you telling me just like, give me something else. Right. Okay. So let me talk about, uh, the other things I want to ask you is that like, okay, so as Amazon gets better, so areas where do they need more work in your opinion? Because obviously they're all interested in new stuff and they tend to like put it out there for their end to end customers. But then they've got ecosystem partners who actually have the same product. Yes. And, and this has been well documented. So it's, it's not controversial. It's just that Amazon's got a database, Snowflake's got a database service. So, you know, Redshift, snowflake 80 is out there. So you got this co-op petition. Yes. How's that going? And what are you hearing about the reaction to any of that stuff? >>Depends on who you ask. They love to basically trot out a bunch of their partners who will say nice things about them. And it very much has heirs of, let's be honest, a hostage video, but okay. Cuz these companies do partner with Amazon and they cannot afford to rock the boat too far. I'm not partnered with anyone. I can say what I want. And they're basically restricted to taking away my birthday at worse so I can live with that. >>All right. So I gotta ask about multi-cloud cause obviously the other cloud shows are coming up. Amazon hated that word. Multi-cloud um, a lot of people are saying, you know, it's not a real good marketing word. Like multi-cloud sounds like, you know, root canal. Mm-hmm <affirmative> right. So is there a better description for multi-cloud >>Multiple single, which >>Davey loves that term. Yeah. >>You know, you're building in multiple single points of failure, do it for the right reasons or don't do it as a default. I believe not doing it is probably the right answer. However, and if I were, if I were Amazon, I wouldn't want to talk about multi-cloud either as industry leader, let's talk about other clouds, bad direction to go in from a market cap perspective. It doesn't end well for you, but regardless of what they want to talk about, or don't want to talk about what they say, what they don't say, I tune all of it out. And I look at what customers are doing and multi-cloud exists in a variety of forms. Some brilliant, some brain dead. It depends a lot on context. But my general response is when someone gets on stage from a company and tells me to do a thing that directly benefits their company. I am skeptical at best. Yeah. When customers get on stage and say, this is what we're doing because it solves problems. That's when I shut up and listen. >>Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Corey, I gotta ask you a question cause I know you we've been, you know, fellow journeymen in the, and the cloud journey, going to all the events and then the pandemic hit. Of course, we're now in the third year, who knows what it's gonna gonna end? Certainly events are gonna look different. They're gonna be either changing footprint with the virtual piece, new group formations. Community's gonna emerge. You've got a pretty big community growing and it's growing like crazy. What's the weirdest or coolest thing, or just big changes you've seen with the pandemic, uh, from your perspective. Cause you've been in the you're in the middle of the whitewater rafting. Seeing the event you circle offline, you saw the online piece, come in, you're commentating, you're calling balls and strikes in the industry. You got a great team developing over there. Duck bill group. What's the big aha moment that you saw with the pandemic. Weird, funny, serious, real in the industry and with customers what's >>Accessibility. Reinvent is a great example. When in the before times it's open to anyone who wants to attend, who can pony up two grand and a week in Las Vegas and get to Las Vegas and wherever they happen to be by moving virtually suddenly it, it embraces the reality that talent is evenly. Distributed. Opportunity is not. And that means that suddenly these things are accessible to a wide swath of audience and potential customer base and the rest that hadn't been invited to the table previously, it's imperative that we not lose that. It's nice to go out and talk to people and have people come up and try and smell my hair from time to time, I smell delightful. Let me assure you. But it was, but it's also nice to be. >>I have some product for you if you want, you know? Oh, >>Oh excellent. I look forward to it. What is it? Pudding? Why not? <laugh> >>What else have you seen? So when accessibility for talent, yes. Which by the way is totally home run. What weird things have happened that you've seen? Um, that's >>Uh, it's, it's weird, but it's good that an awful lot of people giving presentations have learned to tight their message and get to the damn point because most people are not gonna get up from a front row seat in a conference hall, midway through your Aing talk and go somewhere else. But they will change a browser tab and you won't get them back. You've gotta be on point. You've gotta be compelling if it's going to be a virtual discussion. Yeah. >>And also turn off your iMessage too. >>Oh yes. It's always fun in the, in the meetings when you're talking to someone and colleague is messaging them about, should we tell 'em about this? And I'm sitting there reading it and it's >>This guy is really weird. Like, >>Yes I am and I bring it into the conversation and then everyone's uncomfortable. It goes, wow. Why >>Not? I love when my wife yells at me over I message. When I'm on a business call, like, do you wanna take that about no, I'm good. >>No, no. It's better off. I don't the only encourager. It's fine. >>Kids texting you. That's fun. Again. That's another weird thing. And, and then group behavior is weird. Now people are looking at, um, communities differently. Yes. Very much so, because if you're fatigued on content, people are looking for the personal aspect. You're starting to see much more of like yeah. Another virtual event. They gotta get better. One and two who's there. >>Yeah. >>The person >>That's a big part of it too is the human stories are what are being more and more interesting. Don't get up here and tell me about your product and how brilliant you are and how you built it. That's great. If I'm you, or if I wanna work with you or I want to compete with you, or I wanna put on my engineering hat and build it myself. Cause why would I buy anything? That's more than $8. But instead, tell me about the problem. Tell me me about the painful spot that you specialize in. Yeah. Tell me a story there. >>I, I think >>That gets a glimpse in a hook and makes >>More, more, I think you nailed it. Scaling storytelling. Yes. And access to better people because they don't have to be there in person. I just did a thing. I never, we never would've done the queue. We did. Uh, Amazon stepped up in sponsors. Thank you, Amazon for sponsoring international women's day, we did 30 interviews, APAC. We did five regions and I interviewed this, these women in Asia, Pacific eight, PJ, they call for in this world. And they're amazing. I never would've done those interviews cuz I never, would've seen 'em at an event. I never would've been in Japan or Singapore, uh, to access them. And now they're in the index. They're in the network. They're collaborating on LinkedIn. So a threads are developing around connections that I've never seen before. Yes. Around the content. >>Absolutely >>Content value plus network >>Effecting. And that is the next big revelation of this industry is going to realize you have different companies. And in Amazon's case, different service teams, all competing with each other, but you have the container group and you have the database group and you have the message cuing group. But customers don't really want to build things from spare parts. They want a solution to a problem. I want to build an app that does Twitter for pets or whatever it is I'm trying to do. I don't wanna basically have to pick and choose and fill my shopping cart with all these different things. I want something that's gonna basically give me what I'm trying to get as close to turnkey as possible. Moving up the stack. That is the future. And just how it gets here is gonna be >>Well we're here with Corey Quinn, the master of the master of content here in the a ecosystem. Of course we we've been following up from the beginning. It's great guy. Check out his blog, his site, his newsletter screaming podcast. Corey, final question for you. Uh, what do you hear doing what's on your agenda this week in San Francisco and give a plug for the duck build group. What are you guys doing? I know you're hiring some people what's on the table for the company. What's your focus this week and put a plug in for the group. >>I'm here as a customer and basically getting outta my cage cuz I do live here. It's nice to actually get out and talk to folks who are doing interesting things at the duck build group. We solve one problem. We fixed the horrifying AWS bill, both from engineering and architecture, advising as well as negotiating AWS contracts because it turns out those things are big and complicated. And of course my side media projects last week in aws.com, we are it's more or less a content operation where I indulge my continual and love affair with the sound of my own voice. >><laugh> and you're good. It's good content it's on, on point fun, Starky and relevant. So thanks for coming on the cube and sharing with us. Appreciate it. No, >>Thank you. Fun. >>Okay. This cube covers here in San Francisco, California, the cube is back going to events. These are the summits, Amazon web services summits that happen all over the world. We'll be in New York and obviously we're here in San Francisco this week. I'm John fur. Keep, keep it right here. We'll be back with more coverage after this short break.

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to this startup showcase. It's great to be here and talk about some of the innovations we are doing at AWS, how we work with our partner community, especially our open source partners. My name is Deepak Singh. I run our compute services organization, which is a very vague way of saying that I run a number of things that are connected together through compute. Very specifically, I run a container services organization. So for those of you who are into containers, ECS, EKS, fargate, ECR, App Runner Those are all teams that are within my org. I also run the Amazon Linux and BottleRocketing. So anything AWS does with Linux, both externally and internally, as well as our high-performance computing team. And perhaps very relevant to this discussion, I run the Amazon open source program office. Serving at AWS for over 13 years, almost 14, involved with compute in various ways, including EC2. What that has done has given me a vantage point of seeing how our customers use the services that we build for them, how they leverage various partner solutions, and along the way, how AWS itself has gotten involved with opensource. And I'll try and talk to you about some of those factors and how they impact, how you consume our services. So why don't we get started? So for many of you, you know, one of the things, there's two ways to look at AWS and open-source and Amazon in general. One is the number of contributors you may have. And the number of repositories that contribute to. Those are just a couple of measures. There are people that I work with on a regular basis, who will remind you that, those are not perfect measures. Sometimes you could just contribute to one thing and have outsized impact because of the nature of that thing. But it address being what it is, increasingly we'll look at different ways in which we can help contribute and enhance open source 'cause we consume a lot of it as well. I'll talk about it very specifically from the space that I work in the container space in particular, where we've worked a lot with people in the Kubernetes community. We've worked a lot with people in the broader CNCF community, as well as, you know, small projects that our customers might have got started off with. For example, I want to like talking about is Argo CD from Intuit. We were very actively involved with helping them figure out what to do with it. And it was great to see how into it. And we worked, etc, came together to think about get-ups at the Kubernetes level. And while those are their projects, we've always been involved with them. So we try and figure out what's important to our customers, how we can help and then take because of that. Well, let's talk about a little bit more, here's some examples of the kinds of open source projects that Amazon and AWS contribute to. They arranged from the open JDK. I think we even now have our own implementation of Java, the Corretto open source project. We contribute to projects like rust, where we are very active in the rest foundation from a leadership role as well, the robot operating system, just to pick some, we collaborate with Facebook and actively involved with the pirates project. And there's many others. You can see all the logos in here where we participate either because they're important to us as AWS in the services that we run or they're important to our customers and the services that they consume or the open source projects they care about and how we get to those. How we get and make those decisions is often depends on the importance of that particular project. At that point in time, how much impact they're having to AWS customers, or sometimes very feel that us contributing to that project is super critical because it helps us build more robust services. I'll talk about it in a completely, you know, somewhat different basis. You may have heard of us talk about our new next generation of Amazon Linux 2022, which is based on fedora as its sub stream. One of the reasons we made this decision was it allows us to go and participate in the preneurial project and make sure that the upstream project is robust, stays robust. And that, that what that ends up being is that Amazon Linux 2022 will be a robust operating system with the kinds of capabilities that our customers are asking for. That's just one example of how we think about it. So for example, you know, the Python software foundation is something that we work with very closely because so many of our customers use Python. So we help run something like PyPy which is many, you know, if you're a Python developer, I happened to be a Ruby one, but lots of our customers use Python and helping the Python project be robust by making sure PyPy is available to everybody is something that we help provide credits for help support in other ways. So it's not just code. It can mean many different ways of contributing as well, but in the end code and operations is where we hang our happens. Good examples of this is projects that we will create an open source because it makes sense to make sure that we open source some of the core primitives or foundations that are part of our own services. A great example of that, whether this be things that we open source or things that we contribute to. And I'll talk about both and I'll talk about things near and dear to my heart. There's many examples I've picked the two that I like talking about. The first of these is firecracker. Many of you have heard about it, a firecracker for those of you who don't know is a very lightweight virtual machine manager, which allows you to run these micro VMs. And why was this important many years ago when we started Lambda and quite honestly, Fugate and foggy, it still runs quite a bit in that mode, we used to have to run on VMs like everything else and finding the right VM for the size of tasks that somebody asks for the size of function that somebody asks for is requires us to provision capacity ahead of time. And it also wastes a lot of capacity because Lambda function is small. You won't even if you find the smallest VM possible, those can be a little that can be challenging. And you know, there's a lot of resources that are being wasted. VM start at a particular speed because they have to do a whole bunch of things before the operating system spins up and the virtual machine spins up and we asked ourselves, can we do better? come up with something that allows us to create right size, very lightweight, very fast booting. What's your machines, micro virtual machine that we ended up calling them. That's what led to firecracker. And we open source the project. And today firecrackers use, not just by AWS Lambda or foggy, but by a number of other folks, there's companies like fly IO that are using it. We know people using firecracker to run Kubernetes on prem on bare metal as an example. So we've seen a lot of other folks embrace it and use it as the foundation for building their own serverless services, their own container services. And we think there's a lot of value and learnings that we can bring to the table because we get the experience of operating at scale, but other people can bring to the table cause they may have specific requirements that we may not find it as important from an AWS perspective. So that's firecracker an example of a project where we contribute because we feel it's fundamentally important to us as continually. We were found, you know, we've been involved with continuity from the beginning. Today, we are a whole team that does nothing else, but contribute to container D because container D underlies foggy. It underlies our Kubernetes offerings. And it's increasingly being used by customers directly by their placement. You know, where they're running container D instead of running a full on Docker or similar container engine, what it has allowed us to do is focus on what's important so that we can operate continuously at scale, keep it robust and secure, add capabilities to it that AWS customers need manifested often through foggy Kubernetes, but in the end, it's a win-win for everybody. It makes continuously better. If you want to use containers for yourself on AWS, that's a great way to you. You know, you still, you still benefit from all the work that we're doing. The decision we took was since it's so important to us and our customers, we wanted a team that lived in breathed container D and made sure a super robust and there's many, many examples like that. No, that we ended up participating in, either by taking a project that exists or open sourcing our own. Here's an example of some of the open source projects that we have done from an AWS on Amazon perspective. And there's quite a few when I was looking at this list, I was quite surprised, not quite surprised I've seen the reports before, but every time I do, I have to recount and say, that's a lot more than one would have thought, even though I'd been looking at it for such a long time, examples of this in my world alone are things like, you know, what work had to do with Amazon Linux BottleRocket, which is a container host operating system. That's been open-sourced from day one. Firecracker is something we talked about. We have a project called AWS peril cluster, which allows you to spin up high performance computing clusters on AWS using the kind of schedulers you may use to use like slum. And that's an open source project. We have plenty of source projects in the web development space, in the security space. And more recently things like the open 3d engine, which is something that we are very excited about and that'd be open sourced a few months ago. And so there's a number of these projects that cover everything from tooling to developer, application frameworks, all the way to database and analytics and machine learning. And you'll notice that in a few areas, containers, as an example, machine learning as an example, our default is to go with open source option is where we can open source. And it makes sense for us to do so where we feel the product community might benefit from it. That's our default stance. The CNCF, the cloud native computing foundation is something that we've been involved with quite a bit. You know, we contribute to Kubernetes, be contribute to Envoy. I talked about continuity a bit. We've also contributed projects like CDK 8, which marries the AWS cloud development kit with Kubernetes. It's now a sandbox project in Kubernetes, and those are some of the areas. CNCF is such a wide surface area. We don't contribute to everything, but we definitely participate actively in CNCF with projects like HCB that are critical to eat for us. We are very, very active in just how the project evolves, but also try and see which of the projects that are important to our customers who are running Kubernetes maybe by themselves or some other project on AWS. Envoy is a good example. Kubernetes itself is a good example because in the end, we want to make sure that people running Kubernetes on AWS, even if they are not using our services are successful and we can help them, or we can work on the projects that are important to them. That's kind of how we think about the world. And it's worked pretty well for us. We've done a bunch of work on the Kubernetes side to make sure that we can integrate and solve a customer problem. We've, you know, from everything from models to work that we have done with gravity on our arm processor to a virtual GPU plugin that allows you to share and media GPU resources to the elastic fabric adapter, which are the network device for high performance computing that it can use at Kubernetes on AWS, along with things that directly impact Kubernetes customers like the CDKs project. I talked about work that we do with the container networking interface to the Amazon control of a Kubernetes, which is an open source project that allows you to use other AWS services directly from Kubernetes clusters. Again, you notice success, Kubernetes, not EKS, which is a managed Kubernetes service, because if we want you to be successful with Kubernetes and AWS, whether using our managed service or running your own, or some third party service. Similarly, we worked with premetheus. We now have a managed premetheus service. And at reinvent last year, we announced the general availability of this thing called carpenter, which is a provisioning and auto-scaling engine for Kubernetes, which is also an open source project. But here's the beauty of carpenter. You don't have to be using EKS to use it. Anyone running Kubernetes on AWS can leverage it. We focus on the AWS provider, but we've built it in such a way that if you wanted to take carpenter and implemented on prem or another cloud provider, that'd be completely okay. That's how it's designed and what we anticipated people may want to do. I talked a little bit about BottleRocket it's our Linux-based open-source operating system. And the thing that we have done with BottleRocket is make sure that we focus on security and the needs of customers who want to run orchestrated container, very focused on that problem. So for example, BottleRocket only has essential software needed to run containers, se Linux. I just notice it says that's the lineups, but I'm sure that, you know, Lena Torvalds will be pretty happy. And seeing that SE linux is enabled by default, we use things like DM Verity, and it has a read only root file system, no shell, you can assess it. You can install it if you wanted to. We allowed it to create different bill types, variants as we call them, you can create a variant for a non AWS resource as well. If you have your own homegrown container orchestrator, you can create a variant for that. It's designed to be used in many different contexts and all of that is open sourced. And then we use the update framework to publish and secure repository and kind of how this transactional system way of updating the software. And it's something that we didn't invent, but we have embraced wholeheartedly. It's a bottle rockets, completely open source, you know, have partners like Aqua, where who develop security tools for containers. And for them, you know, something I bought in rocket is a natural partnership because people are running a container host operating system. You can use Aqua tooling to make sure that they have a secure Indiana environment. And we see many more examples like that. You may think so over us, it's all about AWS proprietary technology because Lambda is a proprietary service. But you know, if you look peek under the covers, that's not necessarily true. Lambda runs on top of firecracker, as we've talked about fact crackers and open-source projects. So the foundation of Lambda in many ways is open source. What it also allows people to do is because Lambda runs at such extreme scale. One of the things that firecracker is really good for is running at scale. So if you want to build your own firecracker base at scale service, you can have most of the confidence that as long as your workload fits the design parameters, a firecracker, the battle hardening the robustness is being proved out day-to-day by services at scale like Lambda and foggy. For those of you who don't know service support services, you know, in the end, our goal with serverless is to make sure that you don't think about all the infrastructure that your applications run on. We focus on business logic as much as you can. That's how we think about it. And serverless has become its own quote-unquote "Sort of environment." The number of partners and open-source frameworks and tools that are spun up around serverless. In which case mostly, I mean, Lambda, API gateway. So it says like that is pretty high. So, you know, number of open source projects like Zappa server serverless framework, there's so many that have come up that make it easier for our customers to consume AWS services like Lambda and API gateway. We've also done some of our own tooling and frameworks, a serverless application model, AWS jealous. If you're a Python developer, we have these open service runtimes for Lambda, rust dot other options. We have amount of number of tools that we opened source. So in general, you'll find that tooling that we do runtime will tend to be always be open-sourced. We will often take some of the guts of the things that we use to build our systems like firecracker and open-source them while the control plane, etc, AWS services may end up staying proprietary, which is the case in Lambda. Increasingly our customers build their applications and leverage the broader AWS partner network. The AWS partner network is a network of partnerships that we've built of trusted partners. when you go to the APN website and find a partner, they know that that partner meets a certain set of criteria that AWS has developed, and you can rely on those partners for your own business. So whether you're a little tiny business that wants some function fulfill that you don't have the resources for or large enterprise that wants all these applications that you've been using on prem for a long time, and want to keep leveraging them in the cloud, you can go to APN and find that partner and then bring their solution on as part of your cloud infrastructure and could even be a systems integrator, for example, to help you solve this specific development problem that you may have a need for. Increasingly, you know, one of the things we like to do is work with an apartment community that is full of open-source providers. So a great one, there's so many, and you have, we have a panel discussion with many other partners as well, who make it easier for you to build applications on AWS, all open source and built on open source. But I like to call it a couple of them. The first one of them is TIDELIFT. TIDELIFT, For those of you who don't know is a company that provides SAS based tools to curate track, manage open source catalogs. You know, they have a whole network of maintainers and providers. They help, if you're an independent open developer, or a smart team should probably get to know TIDELIFT. They provide you benefits and, you know, capabilities as a developer and maintainer that are pretty unique and really help. And I've seen a number of our open source community embraced TIDELIFT quite honestly, even before they were part of the APN. But as part of the partner network, they get to participate in things like ISP accelerate and they get to they're officially an advanced tier partner because they are, they migrated the SAS offering onto AWS. But in the end, if you're part of the open source supply chain, you're a maintainer, you are a developer. I would recommend working with TIDELIFT because their goal is making all of you who are developing open source solutions, especially on AWS, more successful. And that's why I enjoy this partnership with them. And I'm looking to do a lot more because I think as a company, we want to make sure that open source developers don't feel like they are not supported because all you have to do is read various forums. It's challenging often to be a maintainer, especially of a small project. So I think with helping with licensing license management, security identification remediation, helping these maintainers is a big part of what TIDELIFT to us and it was great to see them as part of a partner network. Another partner that I like to call sysdig. I actually got introduced to them many years ago when they first launched. And one of the things that happened where they were super interested in some of our serverless stuff. And we've been trying to figure out how we can work together because all of our customers are interested in the capabilities that cystic provides. And over the last few years, he found a number of areas where we can collaborate. So sysdig, I know them primarily in a security company. So people use cystic to secure the bills, detect, you know, do threat response, threat detection, completely continuously validate their posture, get this continuous analytics signal on how they're doing and monitor performance. At the end of it, it's a SAS platform. They have a very nice open source security stack. The one I'm most familiar with. And I think most of you are probably familiar with is Falco. You know, sysdig, a CNCF project has been super popular. It's just to go SSS what 3, 37, 40 million downloads by now. So that's pretty, pretty cool. And they have been a great partner because we've had to do make sure that their solution works at target, which is not a natural place for their software to run, but there was enough demand and interest from our customers that, you know, or both companies leaned in to make sure they can be successful. So last year sister got a security competency. We have a number of specific competencies that we for our partners, they have integration and security hub is great. partners are lean in the way cystic has onto making our customer successful. And working with us are the best partners that we have. And there's a number of open source companies out there built on open source where their entire portfolio is built on open source software or the active participants like we are that we love working with on a day to day basis. So, you know, I think the thing I would like to, as we wind this out in this presentation is, you know, AWS is constantly looking for partnerships because our partners enable our customers. They could be with companies like Redis with Mongo, confluent with Databricks customers. Your default reaction might be, "Hey, these are companies that maybe compete with AWS." but no, I mean, I think we are partners as well, like from somebody at the lower end of the spectrum where people run on top of the services that I own on Linux and containers are SE 2, For us, these partners are just as important customers as any AWS service or any third party, 20 external customer. And so it's not a zero sum game. We look forward to working with all these companies and open source projects from an AWS perspective, a big part of how, where my open source program spends its time is making it easy for our developers to contribute, to open source, making it easy for AWS teams to decide when to open source software or participate in open source projects. Over the last few years, we've made significant changes in how we reduce the friction. And I think you can see it in the results that I showed you earlier in this stock. And the last one is one of the most important things that I say and I'll keep saying that, that we do as AWS is carry the pager. There's a lot of open source projects out there, operationalizing them, running them at scale is not easy. It's not all for whatever reason. It may not have anything to do with the software itself. But our core competency is taking that and being really good at operating it and becoming experts at operating it. And then ideally taking that expertise and experience and operating that project, that software and contributing back upstream. Cause that makes it better for everybody. And I think you'll see us do a lot more of that going forward. We've been doing that for the last few years, you know, in the container space, we do it every day. And I'm excited about the possibilities. With that. Thank you very much. And I hope you enjoy the rest of the showcase. >> Okay. Welcome back. We have Deepak sing here. We just had the keynote closing keynote vice-president of compute services. Deepak. Great to a great keynote, great wisdom and insight from that session. A very notable highlights and cutting edge trends and product information. Thanks for sharing. >> No, anytime it's always good to be here. It's too bad that we still doing this virtually, but always good to talk to you, John. >> We'll get hopefully through this way pretty quickly, I want to jump right in. Cause we don't have a lot of time. I want to get some quick question. You've brought up a good things. Open source innovation. Okay. Going next level. You've seen the rise of super clouds and super apps developing at open source. You're seeing big companies contributing, you know, you mentioned Argo into it. You're seeing that dynamic where companies are forming around this. This is a rising tide. This is, this is actually real. It's not the old school of, okay, here's a project. And then someone manages support and commercialization of it. It's actually platform in cloud scale. This is next gen. >> Yeah. And actually I think it started a few years ago. We can talk about a company that, you know, you're very familiar with as part of this event, which is armory many years ago, Netflix spun off this project called Spinnaker. A Spinnaker is CISED you know, CSED system that was developed at Netflix for their own purposes, but they chose to open solicit. And since then, it's become very popular with customers who want to use it even on prem. And you have a company that spun up on it. I think what's making this world very unique is you have very large companies like Facebook that will build things for themselves like VITAS or Netflix with Spinnaker and open source them. And you can have a lot of discussion about why they chose to do so, etc. But increasingly that's becoming the default when Amazon or Netflix or Facebook or Mehta, I guess you call them these days, build something for themselves for their own needs. The first question we ask ourselves is, should it be opensource? And increasingly we are all saying yes. And here's what happens because of that. It gives an opportunity depending on how you open source it for innovation through commercial deployments, so that you get SaaS companies, you know, that are going to take that product and make it relevant and useful to a very broad number of customers. You build partnerships with cloud providers like AWS, because our customers love this open source project and they need help. And they may choose an AWS managed service, or they may end up working with this partner on a day-to-day basis. And we want to work with that partner because they're making our customers successful, which is one reason all of us are here. So you're having this set of innovation from large companies from, you know, whether they are just consumer companies like Metta infrastructure companies like us, or just random innovation that's happening in an open source project that which ends up in companies being spun up and that foster that innovative innovation and that flywheel that's happening right now. And I think you said that like, this is unique. I mean, you never saw this happen before from so many different directions. >> It really is a nice progression on the business model side as well. You mentioned Argo, which is a great organic thing that was Intuit developed. We just interviewed code fresh. They just presented here in the showcase as well. You seeing the formation around these projects develop now in the community at a different scale. I mean, look at code fresh. I mean, Intuit did it Argo and they're not just supporting it. They're building a platform. So you seeing the dynamics of tools and now emerging the platforms, you mentioned Lambda, okay. Which is proprietary for AWS and your talk powered by open source. So again, open source combined with cloud scale allows for new potential super applications or super clouds that are developing. This is a new phenomenon. This isn't just lift and shift and host on the cloud. This is actually a construction production developer workflow. >> Yeah. And you are seeing consumers, large companies, enterprises, startups, you know, it used to be that startups would be comfortable adopting some of these solutions, but now you see companies of all sizes doing so. And I said, it's not just software it's software, the services increasingly becoming the way these are given, delivered to customers. I actually think the innovation is just getting going, which is why we have this. We have so many partners here who are all in inventing and innovating on top of open source, whether it's developed by them or a broader community. >> Yeah. I liked, I liked the represent container. Do you guys have, did that drove that you've seen a lot of changes and again, with cloud scale and open source, you seeing the dynamics change, whether you're enabling that, and then you see kind of like real big change. So let's take snowflake, a big customer of AWS. They started out as a startup too, but they weren't a data warehouse. They were bringing data warehouse like functionality and then changing everything differently and making it consumable for the cloud. And hence they're huge. So that's a disruption into an incumbent leader or sector. Then you've got new capabilities emerging. What's your thoughts, Deepak? Can you share your vision on how you have the disruption to existing leaders, old guard, if you will, as you guys call them and then new capabilities as these new platforms emerge at a net new functionality, how do you see that emerging? >> Yeah. So I speak from my side of the world. I've lived in over the last few years, which has containers and serverless, right? There's a lot of, if you go to any enterprise and ask them, do you want to modernize the infrastructure? Do you want to take advantage of automated software delivery, continuous delivery infrastructure as code modern observability, all of them will say yes, but they also are still a large enterprise, which has these enterprise level requirements. I'm using the word enterprise a lot. And I usually it's a trigger word for me because so many customers have similar requirements, but I'm using it here as large company with a lot of existing software and existing practices. I think the innovation that's coming and I see a lot of companies doing that is saying, "Hey, we understand the problems you want to solve. We understand the world where you live in, which could be regulated." You want to use all these new modalities. How do we allow you to use all of them? Keep the advantages of switching to a Lambda or switching to, and a service running on far gate, but give you the same capabilities. And I think I'll bring up cystic here because we work so closely with them on Falco. As an example, I just talked about them in my keynote. They could have just said, "Oh no, we'll just support the SE2 and be done with it." They said, "No, we're going to make sure that serverless containers in particular are something that you're going to be really good at because our customers want to use them, but requires us to think differently. And then they ended up developing new things like Falco that are born in this new world, but understand the requirements of the old world. If you get what I'm saying. And I think that a real example. >> Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, first of all, they're smart. So that was pretty obvious for most people that know, sees that you can connect the dots on serverless, which is a great point, but not everyone can see that again, this is what's new and and systig was just found in his backyard. As I found out on my interview, a great, great founder, they would do a new thing. So it was a very easy to connect the dots there again, that's the trend. Well, I got to ask if they're doing that for serverless, you mentioned graviton in your speech and what came out of you mentioned graviton in your speech and what came out of re-invent this past year was all the innovation going on at the compute level with gravitron at many levels in the Silicon. How should companies and open source developers think about how to innovate with graviton? >> Yeah, I mean, you've seen examples from people blogging and tweeting about how fast their applications run and grab it on the price performance benefits that they get, whether it's on, you know, whether it's an observability or other places. something that AWS is going to embrace across a compute something that AWS is going to embrace across a compute portfolio. Obviously you can go find EC2 instances, the gravitron two instances and run on them and that'll be great. But we know that most of our customers, many of our customers are building new applications on serverless containers and serveless than even as containers increasingly with things like foggy, where they don't want to operate the underlying infrastructure. A big part of what we're doing is to make sure that graviton is available to you on every compute modality. You can run it on a C2 forever. You've been running, being able to use ECS and EKS and run and grab it on almost since launch. What do you want me to take it a step further? You elastic Beanstalk customers, elastic Beanstalk has been around for a decade, but you can now use it with graviton. people running ECS on for gate can now use graviton. Lambda customers can pick graviton as well. So we're taking this price performance benefits that you get So we're taking this price performance benefits that you get from graviton and basically putting it across the entire compute portfolio. What it means is every high level service that gets built on compute infrastructure. And you get the price performance benefits, you get the price performance benefits of the lower power consumption of arm processes. So I'm personally excited like crazy. And you know, this has graviton 2 graviton 3 is coming. >> That's incredible. It's an opportunity like serverless was it's pretty obvious. And I think hopefully everyone will jump on that final question as the time's ticking here. I want to get your thoughts quickly. If you look at what's happened with containers over the past say eight years since the original founding of the first Docker instance, if you will, to how that's evolved and then the introduction of Kubernetes and the cloud native wave we're seeing now, what is, how would you describe the relationship between the success Docker, seeing now with Kubernetes in the cloud native construct what's different and why is this combination so successful? >> Yeah. I often say that containers would have, let me rephrase that. what I say is that people would have adopted sort of the modern way of running applications, whether containers came around or not. But the fact that containers came around made that migration and that journey is so much more efficient for people. So right from, I still remember the first doc that Solomon gave Billy announced DACA and starting to use it on customers, starting to get interested all the way to the more sort of advanced orchestration that we have now for containers across the board. And there's so many examples of the way you can do that. Kubernetes being the most, most well-known one. Here's the thing that I think has changed. I think what Kubernetes or Docker, or the whole sort of modern way of building applications has done is it's taken people who would have taken years adopting these practices and by bringing it right to the fingertips and rebuilding it into the APIs. And in the case of Kubernetes building an entire sort of software world around it, the number of, I would say number of decisions people have to take has gone smaller in many ways. There's so many options, the number of decisions that become higher, but the com the speed at which they can get to a result and a production version of an application that works for them is way low. I have not seen anything like what I've seen in the last 6, 7, 8 years of how quickly the most you know, the most I would say is, you know, a company that you would think would never adopt modern technology has been able to go from, this is interesting to getting a production really quickly. And I think it's because the tooling makes it So, and the fact that you see the adoption that you see right and the fact that you see the adoption that you see right from the fact that you could do Docker run Docker, build Docker, you know, so easily back in the day, all the way to all the advanced orchestration you can do with container orchestrator is today. sort of taking all of that away as well. there's never been a better time to be a developer independent of whatever you're trying to build. And I think containers are a big central part of why that's happened. >> Like the recipe, the combination of cloud-scale, the timing of Kubernetes and the containerization concepts just explode as a beautiful thing. And it creates more opportunities and will challenges, which are opportunities that are net new, but it solves the automation piece that we're seeing this again, it's only makes things go faster. >> Yes. >> And that's the key trend. Deepak, thank you so much for coming on. We're seeing tons of open cloud innovations, thanks to the success of your team at AWS and being great participants in the community. We're seeing innovations from startups. You guys are helping enabling that. Of course, they want to live on their own and be successful and build their super clouds and super app. So thank you for spending the time with us. Appreciate. >> Yeah. Anytime. And thank you. And you know, this is a great event. So I look forward to people running software and building applications, using AWS services and all these wonderful partners that we have. >> Awesome, great stuff. Great startups, great next generation leaders emerging. When you see startups, when they get successful, they become the modern software applications platforms out there powering business and changing the world. This is the cube you're watching the AWS startup showcase. Season two episode one open cloud innovations on John Furrier your host, see you next time.

>> From Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, Massachusetts, if the queue covering Vita Winter warmer, twenty nineteen brought to you by Silicon Angle media. >> Hi. I'm stupid women. And this is the cubes coverage of V tug. Winter warmer twenty nineteen, where we see the emergency connections between virtual ization and cloud computing happened have on the program A user at the event Con Rebates. Who is a senior integration engineer with P s lifestyle. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Nice to be here. >> All right, So, PS lifestyle, let's start there. Tell us a little bit about that in your role as a senior integration engineer and what that means. >> Okay, So, PS lifestyle, we're national Hair Salon were in thirty seven states, and we have, Ah, super niche angle. All of our salons are in senior assisted living communities as we focus exclusively on seniors and, you know, well, twenty mics in your life more enjoyable. >> Okay, well, that's that's excellent. We always talk about, you know, jobs of the future and where there is growth. Ueno the boo birds generation is, you know, creating lots of people, you know, in health care. And, you know, part of health is making sure you're feeling happy about how you look. So I don't need to worry too much about my hair. These days, but we do, other than just head say, the older generation >> way do some of that, like massage services. Just just Yeah, well, being >> very, very cool is, you know, definitely not something we've talked about on our program. And after nine years and thousands of interviews, it's nice to have some interesting angles talk about. So you're a senior integration engineer? My understanding from some of the prep is you're really working on cloud related activity primarily. >> Yeah. So I came on board about a year ago. I switched out of our operations, roll into a development role and P s lifestyle are looking too, uh, bring the internal systems forward. I've been doing a lot of work, a lot of writing the stylist in the field when I end up writing out their services that they perform everyday, which doesn't really scale. So yeah, they're trying. Teo, bring the services into the present. Um, get get away from having to write everything down. So we're building out like a It's not quite a point of sale. System is somewhere between point of sail on, like, an Internet s so that everyone in the field automate what they're doing? Our accounting team doesn't have tio re input everything that comes in. Andi, just make things flow smoother. >> Okay? So frigates inside a little bit, You know what cloud services are using, and there's there's coating that you're doing is is part of that also. >> So right now we're developing in a PHP framework called Larry Gill. And we're playing to both elastic being stalking a w s and s, um, and we're building. So we have off front ends our old Larry Gill in Elastic Beanstalk. Not back in. We're building a P. I's in Lumen and the micro services are in T. C s. So we could have been scaling. >> Yeah, and, you know, Cloud seems an obvious solution for, you know, a a highly distributed in environment, like as retail too often is. And you know your locations are Is that How long could you bring us? A little bit, as you've been on for a year. But how long has that car journey been going on? >> Actually, a year. Okay. Came in just as just a CZ. The company started developing. Thiss has been on the on the horizon for about two years. And as the study of ramping up. They brought on additional people such myself. Just a stuff up so that we could actually walk through it. >> Okay. And I was there, you know, eight of us, Obviously the leader in the spaces. It was there some consideration as Teo, which cloud they'd be using. There's >> no things they were already using a ws to some capacity for Like what? Press hosting. It was just a natural continuation of that with me coming on board I've been looking at Well, what if we do want redundancy? Do we do we try Multi cloud, You know that's now on option. You know, maybe we start exploring technologies like Tara forms so that we can actually duplicate environments just in case. On the very rare instance that eight of us does go down. Yeah, well, so >> is that a concern? When you know, people say, you know, a ws going down, does an availability zone sometimes have issues shore, But can't you architect around this, or, you know, >> you know, I mean, we've had issues where a w s has been unavailable to us for, like, non technical reasons. In that case is like we were we were trapped. Unfortunately, we were not in production at the time, But it's, you know, that's a little look, a lesson you learn once, and then you think, Well, all right, I need a backup, just in case something does happen. And I know it's, like, very unlikely to happen, so that that then informs, you know, what is my back up? You know how much how much dough I invest in the back of >> great? Yeah, because, you know, multi cloud is one of those things that people talk about when you dig down, It's like, Okay, we understand. Why is that something you're doing? Because, you know, I want tohave price leverage of one against the other. Is it? Is there a service that I wanted one that, you know that might not be available other? Or is it it's kind of insurance. And in your case that saying, you know, in the case that you are, Are you saying I think from an architectural standpoint, I'm not looking to run in both clouds all the time. But if I have an outage, I should be able to kind of fail over almost on spin, something up relatively fast. And another environment. >> Eggs. Exactly. So it's like way we're talking about, you know, possibly looking in Asia. Maybe that's a little overkill. Maybe we could just do with, like, a droplet on on digital Ocean Does our entire environment we develop in Dhaka. That's pretty easy just to pick up and leave, pick up and move somewhere else on DH. You know, maybe far standby environment is nowhere near as powerful, at least still running. >> Yeah, and so, so great. You know, you've got that containers is kind of the base level for free. How are you developing? You know what one of the challenges out there is, you know, digital ocean, great for developers. Work for the containers, but, uh, you know, please correct me if I'm not getting this right, you know, You know, Cloud today isn't a utility, so I can't just say, Oh, I'm running on a day of us and let me just take everything and throw it in azure throat. Indio, You know, we're like, there's usually, you know, some work and prepped to make sure that I've got what I need. >> There is there is so it's like, so right now, it's like we're focused on us so we can work with the tooling. And then, as as we start getting more comfortable, we can start looking at extending that tolling toe, be a little flexible toe with multiple providers >> and cloudy. And if some people you know, concern is Tio, you know, how do how do I make sure that my costs just don't kind of spiral out of control is you know, how does kind of the internal control, you know, is there budgeting process in place? Do you have? Do you have a good understanding around what you have today? You know, is there much growth going on and what you have? And you know what? I'll be down. >> We've been actually very surprising. That resource is that we get on our tier of VWs. It's like we're not even scratching the surface. So we keep looking at, you know, we need toe. Everyone says, Oh, you need to worry about scaling. You need to worry about this and that way Haven't even touched what we have s so we were right. Now our focus is more on just making sure things run and then start scaling us as we run into that issue. >> All right, Candy. Last thing. What will What brings you to this event? So obviously it's it's been doing more than virtual ization and canoeing cloud for about five years now. You know what? What? What? What brings you to this show? >> The community is fantastic. So I have been working with in a previous life I worked with somewhere, which is how I got it in tow. Vey tug. And the community around Socialization is just incredible, Very supportive. So it's like I try and give back, so come back. And >> so so just going to follow up on that. I know virtualization community, you know, very welcoming. And the like do you find in the cloud world similar types of communities? >> Yeah, so it's I've actually just started up, eh? Of'em will use a group and then a WS user group on both of those communities have been fantastic so far. I walk in also with PHP, as I said, and that's an entirely different community. I'm not saying it's not friendly, but it's a different style. >> Yeah, absolutely. You find different cultures and these various ecosystems. And yeah, it's very different. You know, the early VV number one, you've had people. It's like, Oh, I'm used to being about have to do a little bit of, you know, building on top of it. A Ws is definitely builders, you know, and what they're doing. And you know on that. So can we really appreciate you joining? Sharing your experiences on what's happened the cloud and the community's involved in? Yeah. Thanks for running user groups. Those air always super helpful, and it's usually done out of the passion and doing it. It's It's not like that. That's your day job, you know? All right. Candy Bates. Thanks so much for joining. Uh, I'm still Minutemen, and thanks so much >> for watching the cue.

from Gillette Stadium in Foxborough Massachusetts it's the cube covering Vita winter warmer 2019 brought to you by silicon angle media hi I'm Stu minimun and this is the cube at V tug winter warmer 2019 at Gillette Stadium home of the New England Patriots the AFC Championship team going to the Super Bowl third year in a row yet again Randall right yeah paying it's my Los Angeles Rams oh so happy to welcome to the program Randall hunt who's a software engineer with AWS did a keynote this morning I believe it was a hundred AWS features in 50 minutes and felt like you we added a couple more than 100 and went a little over 50 minutes but I think we probably hit 57 minutes that was what the slide counter said but yeah I added a couple of the updates since reinvent you know reinvent is not the end of our innovation we continued releasing new stuff after that all right so our program we're not going to be showing JavaScript we're gonna take a deep breath and slow down a little bit because you know our audience absolutely knows Amazon I tell you this show remember like four years ago first time AWS presented me at Microsoft and AWS here and people heard cloud 101 and I was like come on I could have given this presentation and they were walking around like oh my god I just you know found out that you know who you know horseless carriages and I can do that do them and things like this so you know cloud we've been there for a decade but we're still I believe you know day zero day one is what Amazon always likes this is day one it's always day one so there's no way we can shove the entire reinventing keynote into this discussion so you know want to start first Tulsa rent a little bit about yourself your role what you work on and what customers you talk to sure so I studied physics and then I found out physicists don't really make any money so I became a software engineer and I worked at NASA I worked at SpaceX and worked with this company called MongoDB back then it was called Tianjin and then I am an Amazon I was my second time around in Amazon I'm a software engineer there but I'm also a Technical Evangelist and what that means is I get to travel around the world and make make all of the demos and chat with all of our customers and kind of solicit feedback from them and then kind of try to act as the voice of the customer for the service teams whenever I can get them to listen yeah so probably not going to go into open source versus software licensing of things with you because we want to make sure that we can publish I tell you space is one of those things I love it when I've interviewed people that have been in space I've talked to lots of companies that have our code in space Amazon you have I loved you know robotics and space are hard and we make it easy and I kind of laugh cuz I was an engineer as an undergrad I mean I studied a little bit of you know what it takes to break gravity and understand I always love watching you know all the shows about space and track SpaceX would you work for and things like that give me a break you haven't made space easy well I think space as a whole is getting easier this industry is becoming more approachable one of the things that we launched to reinvent this year was a ground station and this is something where if you have an S band or UHF you know satellite and leo which is low Earth orbit or mio which is medium Earth orbit you can basically down stream that data to one of these ground stations which is you know essentially attach to a region you know in this case us East 2 which is in a like Ohio area and you can go and say hey just stream this data into s3 for me or you know let me access this from my V PC which is pretty gnarly if you think about it you know you have a you have an IP address which is a satellite in space yeah I love I worked on replication technology 15 years ago and it was like okay can the application take the ping off the satellite or you know how do we do this so look we're leveraging satellites a little bit more I understand it's a great tagline to make those useful and more readily just you know it's amazing you think about when you think about my availability zones and regions it's now you know that things aren't just on the Terra Firma well I'm looking forward to the first availability zone on the on the moon or on Mars that that'll be you know when we have utopia planitia 1a that'll be the really cool AZ alright we heard the first blue origins working to Mars no well the latency you know if you have 300,000 and fit three hundred fifty thousand kilometers on average between the Earth and the moon so you know you can go around the earth it would speed of light 7.5 times every second to go to the moon is a fool I hang it's like six seven seconds or so so the latency requirements become a little bit harder there I roll more my wrong pin I have I have the Grace Hopper nanosecond which is the wit which is you know curled up and if you follow the white thing it's how long light would take to travel that and it does it in two nanoseconds so you got me I'm a physics lover and love space as does a lot of our audience so bring it down to the thing one of the things that amazon has done really well is I don't need to be a physics geek to be able to use this technology we're having arguments as to you know if I'm starting out or if I want to restart my career today do I go code or heck you know let me just use lambda and all these wonderful things that Amazon have and I might not even need to know traditional coding I mean when I learned programming you know it was you learned logic and wrote lines of code and then when you went to coding it's pulling pieces and modifying things and in the future it's it seems like serverless goes even further along that spectrum I definitely think there's opportunities for folks who have just you know I don't want to say modest coding abilities but people who were kind of you know industry adjacent scientists you know data scientists folks like that who may not necessarily be software engineers or have the they couldn't recite in Big O notation for mergesort and things like that from scratch you know but they know how to write basic code there's a lot of opportunity now for those developers and I'll call them developers to go and write a lambda function and just have it accomplishing a large portion of their business logic for their whole company I think the you know you have a spectrum of compute options you have you know ec2 on the one side and then you have containers and then as you move towards service you get this this you know spectrum between Fargate and lambda and lambda being the the chief level of abstraction but I I think in a couple cases you can you know even go further than that with things like amplify which is a service that well it's an open source project that we launched and it's also a service that we launched and it takes together a bunch of different AWS services things like app sank and kognito and lambda and it merges them all together with one CLI call you can go and say hey spin up a static site for me like a Hugo static site or something and it'll build the code pipeline build all that stuff for you without you having to you know worry about all the stuff and if developers are starting new today you know I remember when I started I really had to go deep on some of the networking stuff you know I had to learn all these different routers and like how to program them and these like the industry router so you know the million dollar ones and having to rack and stack this stuff and the knowledge is not really needed to operate of large-scale enterprise you know if you if you know a Ralph's table and you you you know V pcs you know you can run you know a multi-billion dollar company if you want yeah it's been interesting to watch too and you know I think the last five years the proliferation of services in AWS got to a point where is like oh my gosh if I wanted to kind of configure a server for my datacenter or configure an equivalent something that I wanted at AWS there was more choices in the public cloud than there was there and people like oh my gosh how do I learn it how do I do this but what we start to see is it's more don't need to do that because what do I want to do if there's an application that I can run where services that will help make it easier for me to do that because the whole it's not let me replicate what I was doing here and do it there but I have to kind of start with a clean sheet of paper and say okay well what what's the goal what data do I need what applications do I need to build and start there I'm curious what you see and how do you help companies through that so that this is a really common scenario so I this is a kind of key point here is enterprises and companies have existed since before the cloud was really around so why do we keep seeing so much uptick why do we keep seeing so many customers moving into the cloud and how do we make it easier for customers to get into the cloud with their existing workloads so along that same spectrum if you have greenfield projects if I were running my own company and I were doing everything I would absolutely start in the cloud and I would build everything as kind of cloud native and if you want to migrate these existing workloads that's part of the one of the things that we launched this year in partnership with VMware is VMware kind of interface for AWS so you can use your native vCenter and vSphere kind of control plane to access EBS to access route 53 and ec2 and all the other kind of underlying stuff that you are interested in run it you can even do RDS on VMware in my environment so that line is definitely blurring between my stuff and my stuff somewhere else and when people are talking about migrating workloads right you know you can take the lowest hanging fruit the most orthogonal piece of your infrastructure and you can say hey let me take this piece as an experimental proof of concept workload and what kind of lift and shift it into the cloud and then let me build the accoutrement the glue and all the other stuff that kind of is associated with that workload cloud native and you'll get additional agility your you know 1:1 ops person can manage this whole suite of things across 19 20 regions of AWS and you know there's kind of global availability and all this kind of good stuff that typically comes with the cloud and in addition to that as you keep moving more and more workloads over it's not like it's a static thing you know you can evolve you can adjust the application you can add new features and you can build new stuff as your move these applications over to the cloud yeah and it's interesting because just the dynamics are changing so much so there's been there's still so much movement to the cloud and then oh well some people I'm pulling stuff back and then you see you have a WS outposts so later 2019 we expect to Amazon to have you know footprint in people's environments and then you know Jeff just to make things even more complicated well the whole edge computing IOT and the like which you know everything from snowball and these pieces so the answer is it gets even more complicated but you know your your AWS I know is trying to help simplify this for use right the board I think I can say anything at all about AWS it's that if a customer is asking us to build something we are gonna do our best to make that customer happy we take customer feedback so incredibly seriously in all of our meetings all of our service team meetings you know we that voice of the customer is very strong and so if people are saying hey I want a AWS in my own datacenter you know that's kind of the genesis of outpost and it's this idea that well we have this control plane we have this hardware let's figure out how we can get it to more customers and customers are saying hey I want into my data center I want to just be able to plug in some fiber and plug in some power and I want it to work and that's the idea right we're gonna when I think of every company that I've watched there's usually something that people will gripe about and what I've been very impressed with Amazon Amazon absolutely listens and moves pretty fast to be able to address things and if you see you know if I'm a competitor of Amazon I'm like oh well you know this is the way that we get in there you know where we think we have an advantage chances are that Amazon is addressing it looking to you know move past it and you know absolutely the Amazon of 2019 is sure not the Amazon of 2018 or you know when you thought about it you know 2015 and it's big challenge for people as to because usually I think of something and you never get a second chance to make a first impression but it changes so much right everything changes that you know I need to revisit it it's like oh well this is the way I do things well Amazon has five different ways you can do that now um you know which one fits you best and I think that's important is different applications gonna have different characteristics that you want to be able to pull in and run in different ways yeah you know honestly I'm a huge fan of service I I think service is where a ton of different workloads are going to move into the future and I just see more and more companies migrating their existing you know everything from elastic Beanstalk applications so like vdq you know VMware images into the service environment and I like seeing that kind of uptick and someone recently I I can't remember who it was someone sent me a screenshot of their console with their ec2 instances in 2010 and maybe it was part of this 10-year challenge thing on Twitter where it's 2009 versus 2019 but they sent me you know they're in one large and the screenshot of the console from back then and they sent me a screenshot of 2019 and Wow things really have changed and you don't really notice it as much when you're using it every day but I can imagine you know their their Ops teams where they haven't logged into the console in three years because you know everything is done kind of in an automated fashion they set up their auto scaling group you know three years ago and then the only time they ever log in is to update to new instance types or something for the cost savings and I get messages on Twitter sometimes from people who are like whoa console got an update this is so cool and then sometimes we we get messages from people where you know we changed the EBS volume snapshotting things we had somebody who had it was like 130,000 EBS snapshots or something and they were like hey you removed my ability for me to select multiple snapshots it what it's like well you have a hundred and thirty thousand so we went in into the UI and we added a little icon that works better for large groups of snapshots you know if there's a customer pain point we will do everything we can to address it all right Randall Hunt really appreciate you sharing with us your experience what's going on with customers and absolutely that 10-year challenge we know things change fast we used to measure in decades I say now it's usually more like you know 18 to 24 months before between everything AWS in 2029 it's gonna be crazy and I can't I can't imagine what its gonna look like then all right well the cube we started broadcasting from in 2010 we appreciate you staying with us through 2019 check out the cube net for all of our programming I'm Stu minimun and thanks so much for watching the key

(futuristic electronic music) >> Live from Las Vegas, its theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back everyone. Live here in Las Vegas with AWS, Amazon Web Services, re:Invent 2018's CUBE coverage. Two sets, wall-to-wall coverage here on the ground floor. I'm here with Dave Vellante. Dave, six years we've been coming to re:Invent. Every year except for the first year. What a progression. We got great news. Always raising the bar, as they say at Amazon. This year, big announcements. One of them is blockchain. Really kind of laying out early formation of how they're going to roll out, thinking about blockchain. We're here to talk about here, with Rahul Pathak, who's the GM of analytics, and data lakes, and blockchain. Managing that. And Shawn Bice who's the vice president of non-relational databases. Guys, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, it's great to be here. >> I wish my voice was a little bit stronger. I love this segment. You know, we've been doing blockchain. We've been following one of the big events in the industry. If you separate out the whole token ICO scam situation, token economics is actually a great business model opportunity. Blockchain is an infrastructure, a decentralized infrastructure, that's great. But it's early. Day one really for you guys in a literal sense. How are you guys doing blockchain? Take a minute to explain the announcement because there are use cases, low-hanging use cases, that look a lot like IoT and supply chain that people are interested in. So take a minute to explain the announcements and what it means. >> Absolutely, so when we began looking at blockchain and blockchain use cases, we really realized there are two things that customers are trying to do. One case is really keep an immutable record of transactions and in a scenario where centralized trust is okay. And for that we have Amazon QLDB, which is an immutable cryptographically verifiable ledger. And then in scenarios where customers really wanted the decentralized trust and the smart contracts, that's where blockchain frameworks like Hyperledger Fabric and Ethereum play a role. But they're just super complicated to use and that's why we built Managed Blockchain, to make it easy to stand up, scale, and monitor these networks, so customers can focus on building applications. And in terms of use cases on the decentralized side, it's really quite diverse. I mean, we've got a customer, Guardian Life Insurance, so they're looking at Managed Blockchain 'cause they have this distributed network of partners, providers, patients, and customers, and they want to provide decentralized verifiable records of what's taking place. And it's just a broad set of use cases. >> And then we saw in the video this morning, I think it was Indonesian farmers, right? Wasn't that before the keynote? Did you see that? It was good. >> I missed that one. >> Yeah, so they don't have bank accounts. >> Oh, got it. >> And they got a reward system, so they're using the blockchain to reward farmers to participate. >> So a lot of people ask the question is, why do I need blockchain? Why don't you just put in database? So there are unique, which is true by the way, 'cause latency's an issue. (chuckles) Certainly, you might want to avoid blockchain in the short term, until that gets fixed. Assume that every one will get fixed over time, but what are some of the use cases where blockchain actually is relevant? Can you be specific because that's really people starting to make their selection criteria on. Look, I still use a database. I'm going to have all kinds of token and models around, but in a database. Where is the blockchain specifically resonating right now? >> I'll take a shot at this or we can do it together, but when you think of QLDB, it's not that customers are asking us for a ledger database. What they were really saying is, hey, we'd like to have this complete immutable, cryptographically verifiable trail of data. And it wasn't necessarily a blockchain conversation, wasn't necessarily a database conversation, it was like, I really would like to have this complete cyrptographic verifiable trail of data. And it turns out, as you sort of look at the use cases, in particular, the centralized trust scenario, QLDB does exactly that. It's not about decentralized trust. It's really about simply being able to have a database that when you write to that database, you write a transaction to the database, you can't change it. You know, a typical database people are like, well, hey, wait a second, what does immutable really mean? And once you get people to understand that once that transaction is written to a journal, it cannot be changed at all and attached, then all of a sudden there's that breakthrough moment of it being immutable and having that cryptographic trail. >> And the advantage relative to a distributive blockchain is performance, scale, and all the challenges that people always say. >> Yeah, exactly. Like with QLDB, you can find it's going to be two to three times faster cause you're not doing that distributing consensus. >> How about data lakes? Let's talk about data lakes. What problem were you guys trying to solve with the data lakes? There's a lot of them, but. (chuckles) >> That's a great question. So, essentially it's been hard for customers to set up data lakes 'cause you have to figure out where to get data from, you have to land it in S3, you've got to secure it, you've then got to secure every analytic service that you've got, you might have to clean your data. So with lake formation, what we're trying to do is make it super easy to set up data lakes. So we have blueprints for common databases and data sources. We bring that data into an S3 data lake and we've created a central catalog for that data where customers can define granular access policies with the table, and the column, and the row level. We've also got ML-based data cleansing and data deduplication. And so now customers can just use lake formation, set up data lakes, curate their data, protect it in a single place, and have those policies that enforce across all of the analytic services that they might use. >> So does it help solve the data swamp problem, get more value out of the data lake? And if so, how? >> Absolutely, so the way it does that is by automatically cataloging all datas that comes in. So we can recognize what the data is and then we allow customers to add business metadata to that so they can tag this as customer data, or PII data, or this is my table of sales history. And that then becomes searchable. So we automatically generate a catalog as data comes in and that addresses the, what do I have in my data lake problem. >> Okay, so-- >> Go ahead. >> So, Rahul, you're the general manager. Shawn, what's your job, what do you do? >> So our team builds all the non-relational databases at Amazon. So DynamoDB, Neptune, ElastiCache, Timestream, which you'll hear about today, QLDB, et cetera. So all those things-- >> Beanstalk too, Elastic Beanstalk? >> No we do not build Beanstalk. >> Okay, we're a customer of DynamoDB, by the way. >> Great! >> We're happy customers. >> That's great! >> And we use ElastiCache, right? >> Yup, the elastic >> There you go! >> surge still has it. >> So-- >> Haven't used Neptune yet. >> What's the biggest problem stigmas that you guys are trying to raise the bar on? What's the key focus as you get this new worlds and use cases coming together? These are new use cases. How are you guys evaluating it? How are you guys raising the bar? >> You know, that's a really good question you ask. What I've found in my experience is developers that have been building apps for a long time, most people are familiar with relational databases. For years we've been building apps in that context, but when you kind of look at how people are building apps today, it's very different than how they did in the past. Today developer do what they do best. They take an application, a big application, break it down into smaller parts, and they pick the right tool for the right job. >> I think the game developer mark is going to be a canary in the coal mine for developers, and it's a good spot for data formation in these kind of unstructured, non-relational scenarios. Okay, now all this engagement data, could be first person shooter, whatever it is, just throw it, I need to throw it somewhere, and I'll get to it and let it be ready to be worked on by analytics. >> Well, yeah, if you think about that gamer scenario, think about if you and I are building a game, who knows if there's going to be one user, ten players, or 10 million, or 100 million. And if we had 100 million, it's all about the performance being steady. At 100 million or ten. >> You need a fleet of servers. (John laughing) >> And a fleet of servers! >> Have you guys played Fortnite? Or do you have kids that play? >> I look over my kid's shoulder. I might play it. >> I've played, but-- >> They run all their analytics on us. They've got about 14 petabytes in S3 using S3 as their data lake, with EMR and Athena for analytics. >> We got a season-- >> I mean, think about that F1 example on keynotes today. Great example of insights. We apply that kind of concept to Fortnite, by the way, Fortnite has theCUBE in there. It's always a popular term. We noticed that, the hastag, #wherestheCUBEtoday. (Rahul chuckling) I couldn't resist. But the analytics you could get out of all that data, every interaction, all that gesture data. I mean, what are some of the things they're doing? Can you share how they're using the new tech to scale up and get these insights? >> Yeah, absolutely. So they're doing a bunch of things. I mean, one is just the health of the systems when you've got hundreds of millions of players. You need to know if you're up and it's working. The second is around engagement. What games, what collection of people work well together. And then it's what incentives they create in the game, what power ups people buy that lead to continued engagement, 'cause that defines success over the long term. What gets people coming back? And then they have an offline analytics process where they're looking at reporting, and history, and telemetry, so it's very comprehensive. So you're exactly right about gaming and analytics being a huge consumer of databases. >> Now, Shawn, didn't you guys have hard news today on DynamoDB, or? >> Yeah today we announce DynamoDB On-Demand, so customers that basically have workloads that could spike up and then all of a sudden drop off, a lot of these customers basically don't even want to think about capacity planning. They don't want to guess. They just want to basically pay only for what they're using. So we announced DynamoDB On-Demand. The developer experience is simple. You create a table and you putyour read/write capacity in the on-demand mode, and you literally only pay for the request that your workload puts through system. >> It's a great service actually. Again, making life easier for customers. Lower the bill, manage capacity, make things go better, faster, enables value. >> It's all about improving the customer experience. >> Alright, guys, I really appreciate you coming in. I'm really interested in following what you guys do in the future. I'm sure a lot of people watching will be as well, as analytics and AI become a real part of, as you guys move the stack and create that API model for, what you did for infrastructure, for apps. A total game changer, we believe. We're interested in following you guys, I'm sure others are. Where are you going to be this year? What's your focus? Where can people find out more besides going to Amazon site? Is there certain events you're going to be at? How do people get more information and what's the plans? >> There's actually some sessions on lake formation, blockchain that we're doing here. We'll have a continuous stream of summits, so as the AWS Summit calendar for 2019 gets published that's a great place to go for more information. And then just engage with us either on social media or through the web and we'll be happy to follow up. >> Alright, well, we'll do a good job on amplifying. A lot of people are interested, certainly blockchain, super hot. But people want better, stronger, more stable, but they want the decentralized immutable database model. >> Cryptographically verifiable! >> And see as everyone knows. >> Scalable! >> Anyone who wants to keep those, they talk about CUBE coins but I haven't said CUBE coin once on this episode. Wait for those tokens to be released soon. More coverage after this short break, stay with us. I'm John Furrier, and Dave Vellante, we'll be right back. (futuristic buzzing) (futuristic electronic music)

it's the cube covering vmworld 2015 brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem sponsors and now your host dave vellante welcome back to vmworld 2015 we're here at moscone north this is the cube the cube goes out we extract the signal from the noise Brian Gracie and I are really thrilled we have a jay patel here is the senior vice president of product development for VMware cloud services the future I love it yeah great to see you thanks for coming on the cube appreciated thanks so big event here we saw Monday the announcement of you know the hybrid cloud the strategy you laying out a lot of vision it's a lot of products that you can get today a lot that you know have a little road map to them but huge crowd would think the number is Robin told us yesterday 23,000 absolutely great energy so congratulations how do you feel feel great he'll be tired to feel great the excitement the momentum it's really great conversation with customers partners it's been a good VMO how have you spent your time here you do in customer meetings presentations no it's a lot of press interviews for presentations a lot of service provider meetings I'm also responsible with bill for the vCloud air network business mm-hmm it's refreshing to see that we've kind of struck the right balance between having our own service but also enabling our service provider community so so what so talk about the scope of your responsibility so I work for Bill father's I'm part of the vcard survey because air our cloud services be you we have two roles we are a proud provide ourselves which is vCloud air with products or presence in the North America amia Japan and the latest edition big Australia so in this case we're standing up a VMware operated cloud and we're running that we also provide all our IP that we build for a cloud we make that available to our service provider partners we have 4,000 service provider partners who leverage VMware technology to run a VMware power cloud so for us success is delivering on both fronts VMV cloud air as a business but also VMware power cloud and owning the public cloud market with vmware technology that's really my juicy responsible for for strategy the auto service you want P&L absolutely so with Bill I'm responsible for running the service ov powder and then my partner Jeff waters works for bill is responsible to be cloudier network where we take my software and monetize that to the ricotta and not work to help them power their car as well okay so you made native announcements this week maybe you could take us through those and in fact you know what why don't we back up can you kind of give us the journey of we caught the offering yeah absolutely so we caught there a two-year-old service when we first started you know North America predominantly with three data centers we extended to five we added our FedRAMP certified data centers so on one scale we started to provide the geographic reach we opened our UK data center than Germany joint venture with Softbank and then a joint venture with Telstra for Australia in Japan so we've got the geographic reach we were able to kind of serve directly 1880 some odd percent of the core cloud market so let's hear one cloud markets in the regions there we're going native in those market as a service provider we also then took our technology which is vcd which is we cloud director and we're just rolling out an announcement of our 80 product this quarter which is our cloudstack our on-demand platform our cloud platform make that available to our service provider partners and with the rest of the partners there 99 percent coverage of the global cloud market today so VMware today are pretty proud to say you can get a VMware cloud service anywhere in the world ninety-nine percent come so what about the reactions to what was announced this week you know I think from the tech weenies in us we love the remotion across on frame and public cloud that that applause of having the vm move from on prem live into a week where a couple of customers say you know what I've been asking that for three years it's good to see you finally delivering on that a hard technology problem but that was probably the most sexy announcement if you will from a technology perspective on the second side it's all about containers in in that example I'll ask Pat because I asked him to square the circle for me I don't if you heard this question whereas you would always here for instance joe tucci and paul gill senior talk about the advantage that the hyper scalars had because of homogeneity right yet you've said your strategy is to manage heterogeneous cloud environment so how do we do that and Pat's point was well for certain things we have to have homogeneity and I'm presuming that demo is one where you've got to have homogeneity to me the world is going to be about what I call compatibility right how do I make sure that I have a compatible cloud and it's going to be infrastructure compatibility and then more importantly application compatible if I cannot make my application workload portables how I'm going to move the workload to where I needed to run so that big technical challenges are making the workload portable at the infrastructure level because of the hypervisor and some of the work we've done on NSX etc we're making the infrastructure programmable and abstracting away the workload from the infrastructure we're decoupling the binding of the application and the infrastructure from the physical infrastructure and then the next step is how do I make it easily available on any cloud which is the work we're sorry important when you announced the offering four years ago you made a big deal that look we are going to share the IP with our ecosystem you really laid down that commit we got a lot of questions about it absolutely probably got some heat too but but how has that worked out how is it at all you know give us a passing grade I think we could do better then I'll be honest where we've done a great job as we've invested in the people we come up with something called a V cloud technology kit we've taken our best practices and how to build it we release vcd 80 which is a capability but our customers one that we motion capably tomorrow so that lag between us having something we demo to getting the hands of service provider we need a string that time so the work we need to put in place is really delivering and agility and the speed by which they can absorb this technology and stand up in their own cloud environment the area we've done better is we've made made possible new program called an MSP program I managed services provider program where smaller cloud provider doesn't want to stand up their own card can resell a week loud air service so it's it's I would say a good passing rate more work to be done yeah you know one of the big themes this week is one cloud it's any application anybody in one cloud that one cloud for you is not only you know vCloud air it's the vCloud air work helped us understand how big is the vCloud air network not just the number of partners because everybody's got lots of partners but you know put it in proportion how we know roughly how big vCloud air is that the VMware runs what is what is that partner network look like is it is it the typical 8020 model where eighty percent of that business is what does it look like how big is that so so I don't have the exact numbers to share but if I were to do a back of the napkin I'm going to speculate right I would say the vCloud air network plus B cloud air together it's probably bigger or as big as a or someone like the in a public cloud market it's a significant public cloud presence if we're not number two or number three from overall public cloud market spin so let's assume it's a 50 billion dollar market span I would say let's say you know Amazon's thirty percent of it the next twenty percent of it is a week loud air network+ vCloud air it's of that size and scale representative it's a major provider so in the mix today vCloud air is growing fast and it's a big portion but the numbers will always be I believe we cut our network will be a bigger portion than vCloud air at any given time but the whole pillars need to grow in paralyzer market is exploding am I correct that the differentiation really is kind of what you talked about monday is the ability to take that huge install base right that you have and enable it to do what the vision of the promise of the hybrid cloud has always been I mean it nobody else really does that I mean amazon refuses to do that right microsoft kind of has trying to do that you know so maybe can do that at some point and that's really your wheelhouse can you talk about the difference yes so what when we first started our first customers would kick our tires right and they would use it for dev tests and they say you know this stuff looks pretty good they said what if I take some of my vm that are not protected and protect them in avocado and we started to see dr really take off for that was kind of a killer use case now I T is being asked to really look at not building out any more data center spaces they're saying guys we cannot afford to build infrastructure and a natural choice for IT as they're starting to come into the age of cloud is who's the best choice i'm already using vmware on prem the starting to think about a data center extension use case or data center replacement use case they're looking at vcloud as a strategic loud so the exciting news for this week has been the number of customers saying in the next two years I want to be out of the data center business you're on my destination cloud let's solve those hybrid use cases to move data between VMs between the clouds is really what we're seeing the most exciting part so it's that ease of moving workloads is really exciting with so it's SiliconANGLE Wikibon we have some experience we have a you know the crowd chat relationship crowd chat forum is an app that's like it we used to run it and you know Nicole oh that's it by our own servers and it was a nightmare so we decided to go to the club we went to Amazon and our developers you know took some time to get it up there was painful right but once it was up and running it worked well so we have some experience with the various clouds and one of the things we found cuz people always does for SiliconANGLE and the Cuban is hey we should run in our cloud and when we go to investigate we find that certain things aren't there you know things like elastic Beanstalk aren't mature or you know other little things are just in beta etc I wonder if you could give us an indication of how mature any cloud air is from that standpoint you know and how you can you know expect what gives you confidence that you can compete with that pace that Amazon you know we often get dinged in terms of the breadth of capably amazon offer it is pretty impressive the rate at which they're innovating very impressive when you go back to the enterprise workloads and look at the customer use cases they probably 10 or 15 services that are critical the two big gaps we had was we didn't have a database service RDS we didn't have an RDS competitor out there we just announced sequel air this week we didn't have a good object service if you're starting to build something natively in the cloud in an object service the video start to bridge these key gaps with doing that today and Gartner has a metric whether measure the ayahs capability of each of the vendors I'm happy to say that if we were to benchmark today were ahead of Google right behind a jour to be capable wise a complete I aspect in in the what some people would call the pass piece of that that database as a service is part of the interpreters a service is that right so we're starting to add these application services it's my background come from Oracle Iran Oracle's middleware business we're starting to build both organically our services but more importantly vmware is a partner friendly company our customers want their best to breed on vs to work in the cloud so the service is like Jenkins for continuous integration as a service they want to use perforce if that's the source code management system to be available as a repository of recovery so our strategy is to enable our isp ecosystem make them available so you won't see everything coming from the VMware factory but the ecosystem will deliver best of class solutions and services on Macleod air both those are the mounts work is an interesting you know workload I mean you have demand from customers that mean certainly have a working order we were one of the first to say virtualize Oracle with VMware oh damn the torpedoes and work there were a lot of interest there unfortunately Oracle has the licensing practices it forces them and more in a dedicated environment so we can support Oracle but unfortunately because of the right system restriction we have to set them in a dedicated cloud you need specialized hardware to run oracle now that now they may relax that over time I mean it's been their practice in the past to do that all right i mean so you would expect it as there are customers today use two things either leave the data on Prem and take the web tier in the front end and then connect back to to database like Oracle sometimes they're just moving out at Oracle using a my sequel cluster to run their web scale websites open that's the choice though that larry has to make it a point of which the customer says okay if you want to lock me into the hole or call approach at the risk of losing my database business and then if that happens then Oracle will loosen up on those recover that's how that work will behave the customers will drive them you're ready to catch him with what do you what do you think so so if i looked back at amazon web services two years in only a couple of services a handful of them you guys are two years in you know handful of services but if i look at who their customers say it's it's directly focused on developers i mean they're going after developers the number of services they come out i mean it's 10 15 20 30 a year how do you who is your customer what's your developer story because right now i mean if i'm talking about moving VMS there's not a developer on the planet who cares about moving in vm how do you talk to a developer and get them to come to your so let's address both sides so we definitely our IT focus and we have an inside-out strategy when its IT driven it's about moving workloads from on-prem to cloud when you have a developer conversations about building that new applications the application environment in the enterprise is not just about green field but off for an application extension I want to add a mobile front end to my enterprise application in front of my sa fie my ERP system etc we've announced mobile backend service for example as a service on top of each other so we're starting to provide those selective use cases where our customers our enterprise IT developers if you will that's our target it's the enterprise IT developer who's looking to put a mobile front end was looking to build a digital experience that's integrated back into the into the use case and you saw the hybrid extension use case and we talked about is really what's driving this so developer story driven by a customer demand around mobile as a spearhead and building the rich set of service so we've been talking about this a little bit this week and we had a good discussion with Pat about it he's like look is the the the are the operations guys you know or the developers really want to become operations guys it's really a lot of your guys are really ops dev right supporting the developer community that's what you're trying to do is enable suppose it's both providing them the frameworks and the tools so in the new develop and it's not about building an application ground up its composing applications taking services and putting them together and we're offering those services but also giving them the tool chain to build new application than an agile way so I guess it has to be both right because you're trying to expand your tan absolutely new areas how do you how do you take advantage of all the assets in the Federation I mean we had rodney rogers on from virtustream he was talking about you know going after SI p and maybe you you don't need just one cloud you can use multiple you announced an object service but it's not based on emc we have an object service with emc as well right both why we have the clout you know the cloud foundry service you know I can I can install it but I can't get it why isn't the Federation stuff tighter why isn't it going faster I mean it is in the Federation you will see this accelerate and I think we if you look at the last year in terms of where progress has been made EMC object service available today our data protection built on albemarle so very strong leverage around that in the pillow case most of our customers use paths for private cloud that's been the design center we have a pws enterprises you the multi-tenant cloud that tends to be more a trial code so we're really about the enterprise customer and the enterprise customers saying hey give me a dedicated pass on frame or ricotta we support that well they're not asking for our multi-tenant kind of engine yard or Uhuru coo that's not our base that tends to be the smaller developer where again focused on the enterprise mark so what's a typical customer scenario like you guys you get a hardcore VMware customer and you start talking to them about the opportunities for hybrid cloud I'll give you three or four different one is to give you the breadth of them right the simple use case if it's an IT operations driven one it's driven around data center migration it's around data sent extension we have the likes of large University that that's looking to complete shut down our data center and move into that so that's kind of a data center use case we have Columbia sports or we're looking at how harley-davidson harley-davidson has the entire dealer network the point of sale system running on vCloud air we have likes of betfair they built an application is more cloud native that dynamically when you were betting and you're right at the last minute you need a spike up capacity their application seamlessly spawns into week our air takes capacity and delivers that that's a cloud native application that's built around that so we see the spread breath off from everything from data center use cases extension capacity on demand use cases all the way to dev test use cases dr to really cloud native applications in that span the spectrum with mobile being the newest addition we have farmers who starting to build a mobile app you so the my vmware ab that you're using today for vmworld that's running on vCloud air using our mbaise service so we're starting to get covered an entire spectrum of enterprise use cases today yeah I've and I you know just just as a piece of i mean i would i would say the ability for you guys to tell that story right now it comes across as being vmware centrum you know very vm sin infrastructure centric you're allowing the rest of the cloud industry to sort of define for you what that is so if that's really your story if your customers are saying look I have a ton of applications you may want to extend them to mobile but I want to want to move them for data center and that's a huge space you know we are forecast even out until 2016 only say that public cloud becomes a third there's a huge amount of enterprise applications that need to go somewhere you know move forward somehow and they need to know what how to help with that so I leave you with that if you have s ap as a workload and you can move the workload on frame or cloud and then extend the workload with mobile any great SI p to Salesforce this is direction where we're going you saw the keynote it had mobile front and center it showed a demo of a mobile app that's been this is clearly move VMware moving from infrastructure to application services extending the reach beyond just infrastructure capacity building that new digital application at Sunday's experience at Sanjay's background so AJ what last question what keeps you up at night not not personal stuff but business you know what keeps me up at night is really how do we scale this business even faster how do i meet the demand my challenges that moved from getting customers to scaling the service fast enough to support the customer the conversation had with some of my customers today they would want to move thousands of vm in the next six months how do we ramp up so quickly how do we support them how do we advise them how do we get this scale going so the challenge is going to be how do we scale quickly I mean that is the floodgates are starting to open up more critical you got demand on the one hand I'm competition the other you've got the scale and you of course you know you don't have that lock in at the top end of the apps layer so you know that game well absolutely she's got skill so his delivery is awesome a great conversation really appreciate you coming so much appreciate you meeting you thank you so much I keep rising everybody will be back to wrap vmworld 2015 right after this you

>> Computer Museum, in the heart of Silicon Valley, extracting the signal from the noise. It's theCUBE. Covering OpenStack Silicon Valley 2015. Brought to you by Mirantis. Now, your hosts John Furrier and Jeff Frick. (upbeat music) >> Okay welcome back everyone. We are here live, broadcasting. This is SiliconANGLE Media, theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Jeff Frick this week. Two days of wall-to-wall coverage live in Silicon Valley for OpenStack Silicon Valley or #OpenStackSV or the hashtag for this event today, #OSSV15. Join the conversation. Join our crowd chat, crowdchat.net/OSSV15. Our next guest is Craig McLuckie, who's with Google. He's on the Google Cloud team, CUBE Alum. Welcome back to theCUBE. Got a keynote there, welcome back. >> Thank you so much, great to be with you again. >> So Silicon Valley house leads center of the innovation engine house a lot of investment capital here, a lot of big players, you guys, Facebook, VMware, Intel, you name it. It's the giants of the technology industry. And the bubble conversation's happening. China's going down in terms of economics, and seeing the stock market crash there. But yet, underlying infrastructure change is happening. Cloud certainly is floating, that wealth-creation engine, you guy are a big part of it here in Silicon Valley. Just talk about the state of the Cloud. OpenStack has momentum, you have some stability in the core compute side with OpenStack, virtualization is not going away. New things like Kubernetes, Containers, fast on the scene, rising very fast. What's your take on this innovation engine in the Cloud? >> So I think there's a couple of things that are really exciting and interesting that are happening right now, as we speak. The first is a transition to open. It's a way of rethinking about how you evaluate, acquire, and integrate your software. And I think that OpenStack has established a legitimacy as a technology that's really bringing the value proposition of traditional infrastructure service to everyone everywhere. And we're really starting to see a convergence to that community, a set of technologies that are consistent, of high simatic consistency, is really becoming a thing, which is phenomenal. At the same time we're also seeing another disruption happening. And it was really a disruption that was triggered by the emergence of Docker as a technology to support a new way of thinking about packaging and deployment. And it's really part of a bigger story around a move towards Cloud -Ntive computing. This is a computing set of patterns that was really inspired by the internet giants by the Google's, the Facebook's, the Twitter's. But it's really been cracked open and been accessible by folks like Docker who have opened up those container technologies and now we're seeing a lot of the players start to really focus on this and look at bringing the value proposition of that new style of computing to enterprises everywhere. >> You know you start to see maturity in a market specially when platforms are involved, platform wars, whatever the bloggers want to put the headline out there, when you see abstraction layers develop. And one of the things that you talked about in your keynote I'd like you can elaborate on is ending the distinction between what's under the hood. Containers you mentioned bring out this notion that, "I'm a developer I want interoperability." >> Right. >> "I want cross platform API's." This is the economy so I want you to explain that. What is this disruption with containers and Kubernetes? Do, for this abstraction, do we care about the features any more? And that's one of the signals of maturity. Is that you're not talking speeds and feeds and infrastructure to service, platform as a service. When those conversations go away you know things are moving. >> Right. >> Or is that true, what's your take on all that? >> I think that's a very good observation. I think that one of the things we as a community have looked for for a while is a separation between the world of tools and infrastructure that people interact with on a day to day basis to build applications and in the systems that actually take those built applications and run them for you. And a big part of our focus has been to make the set of subsystems that are actually responsible for the operations of applications, transparent to the end developer. And we're looking to formalize that interface that exists between how you create an application, how you package up it's dependencies and how you offer up the infrastructure and then how you run it. One of the most exciting and energizing things for me is to see the emergence of a standard set of abstraction that interface between these two worlds so it creates massive opportunities for innovation. By standardizing that interface you have incredible innovation in the tooling area with technologies like Docker or continuous integration of delivery frame works. You know new development environments that are producing an artifact that can be universally consumed everywhere else. And then on the infrastructure side you have a lot of innovation around running that artifact for the developer, the end enterprise efficiently and intelligently whether it's being deployed into a virtual machine on OpenStack with being deployed into a main-source cluster running on the metal or whether it's been deployed into a next generation Kubernetes cluster running in one of those environments or somewhere else. We're looking to create this common abstraction and it's going to drive a lot of innovation at every level of the stack. >> You know at Wikibon research one of the things that they're putting out, some cutting edge research around the innovation around some of the technologies under the hood. Conversion infrastructure, cloud technologies, flash, storage, software defined networking all that stuff under the hood is evolving as fast as well. So you have underlying core technology and tooling exploding. >> Right. >> So some really good stuff coming out Wikibon.com. And with that and your comment I want to ask, kind of a pointed question which is: Does hybrid cloud really exist? Is it a concept or is it a category? Do people buy hybrid-cloud? Do they buy into it? It seems to be that's the conversation people are talking about now. But I just don't see hybrid-cloud existing other than being part of private and public. >> Right. >> And talk about that. >> It's a great question. I love that question. It exists but not the way that people think of it existing. Right so you can think about it this way when you are building an application on your laptop and deploying it into a cloud it's kind of hybrid-cloud right? But it's not the way that people think about hybrid-cloud. When you want to run a continuous integration server for your company and have it hosted in the cloud and have it create artifacts that are deployed into you on-prem production clusters. That's hybrid-cloud but it's not the way people have come to think about it. And so what I think about it is really about the ecosystem. About establishing a common set of tools and capabilities so that first and foremost people can choose the destination for an application based solely on the technical merits of the infrastructure that they're ruing on. Google offers some very high quality, robust, fast, affordable cloud infrastructure. But we recognize and embrace the fact that for some customers you have very legitimate regional requirements. For some of the applications you might really want to run them on premises. And so the first step toward achieving legitimacy for hybrid-cloud is establishing a common set of patterns and tools and capabilities that exist in both places. The next step is going to be around creating a common services abstraction that let's you start to access things from other environments. And then over time you might actually see people deploy these sort of cloud bursting scenarios et cetera. But the path to get there is really through infrastructure. You know like a common set of abstractions, a common set of tools, a common set of pattern, and making those available to people everywhere. And then over time we will start building these fused together, legitimately hybrid solutions. >> So hybrid-cloud then is a paradigm, it's a concept that highlights the common tooling interoperability so developers can actually work in these environments without having to do anything. That's where Docker comes in, that's where Kubernetes come in? >> Exactly. And it's really, hybrid needs to be first and foremost about being able to use a common set of technologies to build an application for A or B. >> So let's take it forward. So let's put the brainstorming hat on. Let's talk about the future and let's kind of play with some scenario's. Internet of things opens up a huge can of worms and challenges, engineering challenges around: How do I manage the data? How do I drive workloads to these devices? Whether their wearables or cars or stacks or devices? Anything that's on the edge of the network is now considered a device. PC, mobile, internet of things. So for a developer to work in that kind of environment they need these toolings. Is that how you see it? >> Absolutely, I think that's a great way to think about it. You know it's an interesting thing you raise. Because if you think about it Cloud-Native has really been the domain of internet companies, right? It's really been something that Google's done because it's the only way to practically achieve a certain level of scale. We've seen co-evolution of this, of these patterns inside Twitter, eBay, Facebook, Netflix. Everyone's been doing it on their own terms. Now the reality is when IoT happens every enterprise has to kind of become a internet company right? And what we've seen consistently across, you know all of the internet companies that exist today is there's one pattern that really works well to actually deploy computational infrastructure, at scale efficiently. And that's this pattern around container package, dynamically schedule, microservices oriented computing. And so our mission is really to bring these technologies in a democratized way to enterprises so that they can actually tackle problems that were previously only really solved by the internet giants. Without having to make Google level investments or Facebook level investments in technology. >> Yeah. When we hear that Internet companies, just clarify like a hyperscaler like with Yahoo and Google did. Building large scale systems in a seamless way that's kind of abstract to the user. >> Right. >> Just pure performance all, everything is running and it's kind of a brilliant concept. That brings up the point of Google envy. I mean you hear this all the time in the enterprise. "I want to be more like Google." "I want to be more like Facebook." And what they really are saying is: "I want to have Ops." Right so. >> Right. >> DevOps, Cloud-Native do you hear hat often? And when you hear that: "I want to be more like Google." What does that really mean from your stand point? How do you guys internalize that? >> Right. >> How do you talk back to customers? >> So I think you know when I say I want to be more like Google I think there's a lot of different sort of angles that you might have there. I've heard people coin this phrase GIFEE to describe what we're trying to do: Google Infrastructure for Everyone else. But I think the heart of it is really this: If you're a Google engineer, it's like you have a superpower, right. You have access to this amazing almost unlimited mass of infrastructure that's just at your disposal immediately. At very little cost or overhead. And you don't have to worry about the mechanics of actually where the thing I built is run, right. Operations is just a function of the platform. The developer gets to focus on their application and their application operations and what they get for free is this cluster environment where cluster operations is handled for you. The process of actually mapping an atom of code into a distributors systems environment. The ability to use some very powerful services that make it trivial to build distributable systems. The fact that I'm not paged all the time because what I deploy is understandable by some very smart subsystems, they can watch it, they know what it's supposed to be doing. They can tell when it's not doing that and they know how to fix it, right. And so traditionally when you go out of operating parameters in a traditional system you get paged. And for me a lot of what this operate like Google really means is one is I want to be able to Access Compute at an unprecedented level easily and two is I don't want to get paged by my applications that are doing that. >> Yes so let's bring that up, the API economy. Let's bring this to the next level. Today applications are either Legacy or their Cloud-Native so and I ask everyone the question, even on our own Wikibon team we have a debate. And I ask Dave Alante: "Dave name the Cloud-Native Apps that are out there?" I don't think there are any Cloud-Native apps out there. I mean who has a Cloud-Native App? Now that's a trick question because he goes: "Amazons an App, Google has Cloud-Native." Well they're already hyperscaled. >> Right. >> So the question is what, where are the Cloud-Native apps? Where are the examples? Now Facebook's a Cloud-Native App because they built it from the ground up to be Cloud-Native. >> Sure. >> Google same way. So as an enterprise, what is the Cloud-Native App to the enterprise and how do they get there? And what Legacy do they have to throw away because its synchronous and API interactions is fundamental. >> Right. >> How do you ease that out? >> This is actually a fascinating topic and I think one of the most dangerous things people assume is that to accomplish Cloud-Native you have to go fully along the API-Fication path, right. Now the reality is that of you look at they way that people access data today the fast majority of business data's stored in relational database's. People have great tools to access data in relational databases. They want to be able to move that forward. And to me if you force API-Fication, if you force a protocol specific approach to actual integration, if you force people to use a specific authentication scheme you're going to alienate a very broad array of your customers and you're going to create this cognitive hurdle that's very hard for people to get over. So when I think about Cloud-Native, I think about it as providing a different paradigm for deployment management, activation et cetera. But it has to make allowances for integration with your existing systems. And so I think at the forefront of this is the notion of a service or a microservice. And a microservice has to be a minimal atom of software consumption, the easiest way to find and consume something and you can't force an opinion around how people project that, right. So if you build something that runs in a cluster you should be able to access an Oracle database as if it were a microservice running inside your cluster. You should be able to access a sales force SAS endpoint as if it were a microservice running inside your cluster. And so as I think about my mission and Google's mission around the move towards Cloud-Native computing, you can't create this experiential cliffs, you can't create these artificial boundaries to your system. You have to make natural allowances where, look there's some stuff that just works better in a vertically scalable VM. If you want to run a big database with a Dune Kernel and a few other things, by all means put it in a VM. And we are absolutely committed to the idea of creating a natural set of experiences when you want to go from that to some portion of the application that's doing stateless, front and serving. Or a portion of the application that's running in a cloud-friendly, distributed scaled out database. You shouldn't have to take the pull and be stuck in this world. You should be able to mix these. >> So you're saying it's dangerous to force API-Fication, if that's a term I can't even spell it, It's too may I's at the end there, I like that hyphen in there. But if you force API-Fication or movement, you can foreclose future performance and functionality by alienating existing apps. >> By alienating the existing system. It is a very dangerous, there's a lot of. It's very attractive to drive API-Fication but it has to be, you have to create this pressure grading that attracts people up it by adding value at every stage of the game. And you can't build your management systems around a predicated, sort of, opinionated API framework. We saw this with, in the world of SOA, I mean I don't know if you remember the SOAP and SOA stuff. >> Yeah, yeah. >> You know way back when. >> That was just another way of describing API-Fication and we've saw where it went. The problem was that. >> It wasn't ready, the market wasn't ready for web services at that time. >> And it was, but it was beyond that, it was like, no one's willing to make a massive infrastructure investment to get you to ground zero, where you can actually start building. >> So let's look at that web services back in 2000, 2001 when you saw SOAP, XML, SAM all those things emerging. At that time who did take advantage of that? It was the hyperscalers. It was internet companies cause they needed it, right. So the mainstream market now is adopting that kind of concept around microservices. Explain that. >> But it wasn't, the interesting thing is when you look at what the adoption was around microservices, it wasn't around interoperable SOAP, it was around discrete, highly optimized RPC protocols. It was around relatively closed systems at that time. And it worked well, right? The challenge. >> It was controlled. >> It was controlled and it worked well inside a closed ecosystem. Now what, the thing that really held people back is that to get there you had to do a big ESP deployment. You had to then go and SOA-fy a bunch of your components and it required a huge investment in terms of sort of infrastructure and capabilities to get, before you started realizing value. And it was inaccessible to most people and it alienated technologies that didn't fit well into that model. Right like how do you take your database and put it into that model? It was purely optimized around a certain portion of it. And so now we're in a world where we make it available to everyone. We reduce barriers to entry and you get immediate value without having to make huge investments. So let's take microservices and let's unpack that for the audience out there. You're seeing DockerCon, ContainerCon, KubeCon, MasosCon. All these conferences are around developers. And this is all about scale right? >> Right. >> Operating a scale, abstraction layers. I think it's, we need to be careful not to pigeonhole this as about operating at scale. It is the only practical way to operate at internet scale but the value proposition is just as applicable if you're running something in five virtual machines, at a more humble scale. >> So let's talk about development versus operation team. >> Right. >> Where does the Kubernetes, where does the microservices model fit in? And how do companies avoid the trap of alienating existing apps? How do they get the system up and running? What is the roadmap? And differentiate from a Dev standpoint and an Ops standpoint. >> I think one of the most important things you're going to start seeing is a specialization of the operations function. Today it's all kind of glum together and if you ask a developer to actually run an application they have to be cognizant of which virtual machine it's in. You force them into the ugly world of infrastructure Ops. And sort of common services Ops. And what we're going to start seeing, and what I hope to help companies achieve, is a specialization of the operations function. So Infrastructure Ops should be relegated to a set of people that actually understand the physical infrastructure. They will create an optimal physical environment surround your application. There'll be a small number of specialized people that know how to do that and they will rack and stack and wire and configure and do what ever needs to be done to tune the infrastructure. Above that you're going to see this Cluster Operations. So a common Services Operation team that provide a basic operational platform and common services to everyone. So these are a highly specialized set of people that provide you the tools you need to be able to autonomously run a distribute system. They are unlikely to be involved in the day to day operations because most of these systems will be autonomous but they're there to answer the call if something happens in, in that system. So it becomes a very specialized function. And Google does this with our SRE folks that actually manage our, like the Boar clusters that run all our infrastructure. Small number of highly specialized people providing a very valuable service to a lot of folks. And then at the top level you're going to have Application Operations. And that really just becomes the developers function. And it should really be about understanding and managing your code and you should never have to think about: Where it's running? How it's running? You never, should never have to SSH into an instance to try and debug it. All that should be presented to you through your tools. So the developer's experience becomes one of of using logical infrastructure. And so I think what we're going to start seeing is companies making investments in these clustering technologies. Offering up these simple, clustered service environments for their departments. And then having portfolio's of container package applications that can be easily taken, adjusted and run in these environments. And we'll naturally see the specialization of operations emerge. >> So we're running out of time. Jeff didn't get one question in but maybe next time. >> He has a role in that. >> Brendan Burns, Brendan Burns I think on your team. >> Yeah. >> Brendan, so he brought up something. He brought up the hybrid-cloud is kind of the way, meaning the way you described it, not as a category. But he also brought up the different aspects of Google Cloud in our last crowd chat last month. How do customers mix and mach with the cloud? I mean you guys offer Linux, you guys offer Windows. I mean if I want to work with Google Cloud what are the touch points? How do people ingratiate in? How do they engage with Google? What are some of the use cases? Can you share just put the plug in for Google Cloud what you guys have up and running that's mature, stable, >> Right >> Shipping. And how do customers get into the Google Cloud? >> So we've really seen Google Cloud, it needs to be in all of the above sort of capabilities. The operating characteristics. The thing that make Google Cloud unique is the quality of the basic infrastructure. We offer by far the most price performing basic infrastructure out there. It's an innovative clouds, you know it's driving and active in a lot of the sort of disruptions we're seeing around the container space. It's an open cloud. It's a cloud that's invested in making sure that we engage and connect with the OpenSource community. So if you want to work with Google Cloud there's a lot of different ways to do it. One is you can go and just buy beautiful, clean, pristine, powerful, affordable infrastructure in large chucks through Google compute engine. And we're seeing a tremendous amount of adoption. You don't have to make massive capex down payments to get our best price. We really focus on doing that. You can also come in if you just want to write a bit of code, have it run, we have a wonderful Pass product called Google App engine that's becoming very naturally integrated into the container ecosystem and is a natural sort of path. It's a great entry point for people that just want to operate on a higher level and want to take some code and then have it easily deployed and run on your behalf. And then we're also, another entry pointy that isn't obvious to people is, you can help us build the Google Cloud. What we're building with our next generation set of offerings with technologies like Google Container Engine, is an opensource cloud. It's been built in public. Come join our community, work with us. Try it out. Give us feedback and be part of actually building the next generation of clouds. >> Okay so the question I have for you is, let's just say I'm an Amazon customer and I want to go to Google Cloud, do you have like an elastic Beanstalk application containers an App Engine, how do I get I there? I mean there are some things that Amazon has you might have some things. How do you talk to that, Beanstalk particulars. >> That's a great question. So Beanstalk you know provides the ability to you know deploy and run applications. The closest analogy is App Engine. So Beanstalk traditionally was a Java base platform that you could provide your Java code and it would run it for you. App Engine gives you that equivalent capability. And with the new generation of App Engine we actually provide the ability to deploy into directly into VM. So that it feels a lot, it feels a lot like the Beanstalk experience. But it comes with a lot of other high value services. And so that's a natural starting point. And App Engine it self is being rebased on a lot of the Kubernetes concepts. So that you have this immediate, easy, accessible experience for code but when you reach an edge and you want to actually integrate it naturally with a vertically scaled database that runs in a VM, we have compute engine waiting for you and all very natural, it will feel natural to actually just integrate those two things together and snap together these more holistic solutions. >> You guys have a, final question. I now you guys have a lot of track record with developers certainly Google's history and OpenSource, everything is great. But other competitors, more commercial IBM and Amazon, they're providing marketplaces for distribution, where people can make some cash and some cabbage. >> Right. >> What's the plans Google? Is there anything there? How do I make money if I'm a developer with Google? Or is there plans there, what's the state of that? >> It's a great question and obviously we have aspirations in that space. I can't go into all the details right now. But you know the we are obviously investing in that area. And one of the things that we're really like though is looking at containers as a standard distribution framework, let's you plug into everyone's market places. So one of the things that I see around marketplaces historically is that they offer immediate value in connecting a producer and consumer of software but they're not offering steady state value. So once those two have been connected the marketplace isn't adding significant ongoing value. So when you think about what we want to do, we want to make sure that one is, we become a market maker, we let lost of different market places emerge and that we support those. But then in our own efforts we actually add legitimate value to both the producer and the consumer of the software. And the we're not just taking a cut off the top. So but that's, it will become much more clearer in the face of time. >> Craig, thanks for spending some time and congrats on a great keynote. Good to see you again. Thanks for jumping in and sharing the data here on theCUBE, really appreciate it. We are live here in Silicon Valley. It's theCUBE at OpenStackSV, join the conversation #OSSV15. We'll be right back after this short break. (upbeat music)