>>Hey everyone. Welcome back to Miami. Lisa Martin here live with the Cube at IFS Unleashed 2022. We're so excited to be here. We just had a great conversation with Ifss, CEO of Darren Rouse. Now we've got another exciting conversation. F1 is here. You know how much I love f1. Christian Peterson joins us as well, the Chief Product Officer at ifs, and Sean Edwards IT business partner at Aston Martin. F1. Guys, it's great to have you on the program. Thank you for having >>Us. Thank you >>Very much. We were talking about F one. We probably could have an entire conversation just on that, but Christian, I wanna talk with you. It's been three years since the Cube has covered ifs obviously for obvious reasons during that time. So much momentum has happened. IFS cloud was launched about 18 months ago. Give our audience an o, a flavor of IFS, cloud and some of the milestones that you've hit in such a short time period. >>Yeah, I mean IFS cloud is really transformational in many ways. It's transformational for first and foremost for our customers in what enables them to do, but also transformational for us from a technology perspective, how we work and how we do everything. And at the end of the day, it has really surfaced, served around the the, the fact of what we need to do for our customers. And what we saw our customers often do back then, or any company, was they were out looking for EAP solutions or FSM Solutions or EAM Solutions or what have you. And then they were trying to stitch it all together and we, we said like, Hang on a second, these these traditional software s, those are some that I'm guilty. You know, there's some that we actually invented over the years together with analysts. So we invented EER P and we invented CRM and EAM and all these different things. >>But at the end of the day, customers really want a solution to what they are, they are what they're dealing with. And so in these conversations it became very clear that and very repeated conclusions from the conversations that customers wanted something that could manage and help them optimize the use of their assets. Regardless of what industry you're in, assets is such a key component. Either you are using your assets or you're producing assets. Second thing is really get the best use of of your people, your teams and your crew. How do you get the right people on the right job at the same time? How do you assemble the right crew with the right set of skills in the crew? Get them to the right people at the same time. So, and then the final thing is of course customers, you know all the things that you need to do to get customers to answer these ultimate questions, Will you buy from this company again? And they should say yes. That's the ultimate results of moments of service. So that's how we bring it all together and that's what we have been fast at work at. That's what IFS cloud is all about. >>And you, you talked about IFS cloud, being able to to help customers, orchestrate assets, people, customers, Aston Martin being one of those customers. Shawn, you came from ifs so you have kind of the backstory but just give the audience a little bit of, of flavor of your role at Aston Martin and then let's dig into the smart factory. >>Sure. So I previously worked at IFS as a manufacturing consultant. So my bread and butter is production planning in the ERP sector. So we, I Aston Martin didn't have an ERP system pre IFS or a legacy system that wasn't working for them and the team couldn't rely upon it. So what we did was bring IFS in. I was the consultant there and as IFS always preached customer first, well customer first did come and I jumped to support the team. So we've implemented a fully RP solution to manage the production control and the material traceability all the way through from design until delivery to track. And we've mo most recently implemented a warehouse solution at Trackside as well. So we are now tracking our parts going out with the garage. So that's a really exciting time for RFS. In terms of the smart factory, it's not built yet. >>We're we're supposed to move next year. So that's really exciting cause we're quadrupling our footprint. So going from quite a small factory spread out across the North Hampton Share countryside, we're going into one place quadruple in our footprint. And what we're gonna start looking at is using the technology we're implementing there. So enabling 5G to springboard our IFFs implementations going forward with the likes of Internet of things to connect our 15 brand new CMC machines, but also things like R F I D. So that comes with its own challenges on a Formula One car, but it's all about speed of data capture, single point of truth. And IFFs provides that >>And well, Formula One, the first word that comes to mind is speed. >>Absolutely. Second >>Word is crazy. >>We, we are very unique in terms of most customers Christian deals with, they're about speed but also about profit and efficiency. That doesn't matter to us. It is all about time. Time is our currency and if we go quicker in designing and manufacturing, which ifs supports ultimately the cargo quicker. So speed is everything. >>And and if we, if we think of of people, customers and assets at Asset Martin F one, I can't, I can't imagine the quantity of assets that you're building every race weekend and refactoring. >>Absolutely. So a Formula one car that drives out of the garage is made up of 13,000 car parts, most of which, 50% of which we've made in house. So we have to track that all the way through from the smallest metallic component all the way up to the most complex assembly. So orchestrating that and having a single point of truth for people to look at and track is what IFFs has provided us. >>Christian, elaborate on that a little bit in terms of, I mean, what you're facilitating, F1 is such a great example of of speed we talked about, but the fact that you're setting up the car every, every other weekend maybe sometimes back to back weeks, so many massive changes going on. You mentioned 50% of those 13,000 parts you manufacture. Absolutely. Talk about IFS as being a catalyst for that. >>I mean the, it's, it's fascinating with Formula One, but because as a technology geek like me, it's really just any other business on steroids. I mean we talk, we talk about this absolutely high tech, super high tech manufacturing, but even, even before that, the design that goes in with CFDs and how you optimize for different things and loose simulation software for these things goes into manufacturing, goes into wind tunnels and then goes on track. But guess what, when it's on track, it's an asset. It's an asset that streams from how many sensors are on the car, >>I think it's over 10,000 >>Sensors, over 10,000 sensors that streams maybe at 50 hertz or 50 readings. So every lap you just get this mountain of data, which is really iot. So I always say like F one if one did IOT before anybody invented the term. >>Absolutely. >>Yep. You know, F1 did machine learning and AI before anybody thought about it in terms of pattern recognition and things like that with the data. So that's why it's fascinating to work with an organization like that. It's the, it's the sophistication around the technologies and then the pace what they do. It's not that what they do is actually so different. >>It is, it absolutely isn't. We just have to do it really quickly. Really >>Quickly. Right. And the same thing when you talk about parts. I mean I was fascinated of a conversation with, with one of your designers that says that, you know, sometimes we are, we are designing a part and this, the car is now ready for production but the previous version of that part has not even been deployed on the car yet. So that's how quick the innovation comes through and it's, it's, it's fascinating and that's why we like the challenge that Esther Martin gives us because if we can, if we can address that, there's a lot of businesses we can make happy with that as far, >>So Sha I talk a little bit about this is, so we're coming up, there's what four races left in the 2022 season, but this is your busy time because that new car, the 23 car needs to be debuted in what February? So just a few months time? >>Absolutely. So it's a bit cancer intuitive. So our busiest time is now we're ramping up into it. So we co, we go into something called car build which is from December to December to February, which is our end point and there's no move in that point. The car has gotta go around that track in February. So we have got to make those 13,000 components. We've gotta design 'em, we've gotta make 'em and then we've gotta get 'em to the car in February for our moment of service. They said it on stage. Our moment of service as a manufacturing company is that car going around the track and we have to do it 24 times next year and we've gotta start. Well otherwise we're not gonna keep up. >>I'm just gonna ask you what a, what a moment, what's a moment of service in f1 and you're saying basically getting that >>Functional car >>On the track quickly, as quickly as possible and being able to have the technology underpinning that's really abstracting the complexity. >>Absolutely. So I would say our customer ultimately is the driver and the fans they, they need to have a fast car so they can sport it and they ultimately drive it around the track and go get first place and be competitive. So that is our moment of service to our drivers is to deliver that car 24 times next year. >>I imagine they might be a little demanding >>They are and I think it's gonna be exciting with Alonzo coming in, could the driver if we've gotta manage that change and he'll have new things that he wants to try out on a car. So adds another level of complexity to that. >>Well how influential are the drivers in terms some of the, the manufacturing? Like did they, are they give me kind of a a sense of how Alon Fernando Alanzo your team and ifs maybe collaborate, maybe not directly but >>So Alonzo will come in and suggest that he wants cars to work a certain way so he will feed back to the team in terms of we need this car, we need this car part to do this and this car part to do that. So then we're in a cycle when he first gets into the car in that February, we've then gotta turnaround car parts based off his suggestions. So we need to do that again really quickly and that's where IFS feeds in. So we have to have the release and then the manufacturer of the component completely integrated and that's what we achieve with IFFs and >>It needs to be really seamless. >>Absolutely. If, if we don't get it right, that car doesn't go out track so there's no moving deadline. >>Right. That's the probably one of the industries where deadlines do not move. Absolutely. We're so used to things happening in tech where things shift and change and reorgs, but this is one where the dates are set in their firm. >>Absolutely. And we have to do anything we can do to get that car on the track. So yeah, it's just a move. >>Christian, talk about the partnership a little bit from your standpoint in terms of how influential has Aston Martin F1 been in IFS cloud and its first 18 months. I was looking at some stats that you've already gotten 400,000 plus users in just a short time period. How influential are your customers in the direction and even the the next launch 22 R too? >>I mean our customers do everything plain and simple. That's that's what it is. And we have, we have a partnership, I think about every single customer as a partner of ours and we are partnering in taking technology to the next level in terms of, of the outputs and the benefits it can create for our customers. That's what it's all, all about. And I, I always think about these, these three elements I think I mentioned in our state as well. I think the partnership we have is a partnership around innovation. Innovation doesn't not only come from IFS or the technology partner, it comes from discussions, requirements, opportunities, what if like all these things. So innovation comes from everywhere. There's technology driven innovation, there's customer driven innovation, but that's part of the partnership. The second part of the partnership is inspiration. So with innovation you inspire. So when you innovate on something new that inspires new innovation and new thinking and that's again the second part of the partnership. And then the third part is really iterate and execute, right? Because it's great that we can now innovate and we can agree on what we need to do, but now we need to put it into products, put it in technology and put it into actual use. That's when the benefits comes and that's when we can start bringing the bell. >>And I think it's really intrinsically linked. I mean if you look at progress with Formula One teams and their innovation, it's all underpinned by our technology partners and that's why it's so important. The likes of Christian pushes the product and improves it and innovates it because then we can realize the benefits and ultimately save time and go faster. So it's really important that our, our partners and certainly inform one, push the boundaries and find that technology. >>And I think one of the things that we also find very, very important is that we actually understand our customers and can talk the language. So I think that was one of the key things in our engagement, Martin from the beginning is that we had a set of people that really understand Formula One felt it on their bodies and can have the conversation. So when the Formula One teams they say something, then we actually understand what we're talking about. So for instance, when we talk about, you know, track side inventory, well it's not that different from what a field service technician have in his van when he goes service. The only difference is when you see something happening on track, you'll see the parts manager go out to the pit lane with a tablet and say like, oh we need this, we need that, we need this and we need that. And then we'll go back and pick it and put it on the car and the car is service and maintain and off go. Absolutely. >>Yeah that speed always impresses me. >>It's unbelievable. >>Shannon, last question for you. From a smart factory perspective, you said you're moving in next year. What are some of the things that you are excited about that you think are really gonna be transformative but IFS is doing? >>So I think what I'm really excited about once we get in is using the technology they've already put in terms of 5G networks to sort of springboard that into a further IFS implementation. Maybe IFFs cloud in terms of we always struggle to keep the system up to date with, with what's physically happening so that the less data entry and the more automatic sort of data capture, the better it is for the formula on team cuz we improve our our single point of truth. So I'm really excited to look at the internet of things and sort of integrate our CNC machines to sort of feed that information back into ifs. But also the RFID technology I think is gonna be a game changer when we go into the new factory. So really >>Excited. Excellent. Well well done this year. We look forward to seeing Alonso join the team in 23. Fingers >>Crossed. >>Okay. Fingers crossed. Christian, Jeanette, it's been a pleasure to have you on the program. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and how ifs asked Martin are working together, how you really synergistically working together. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you very much for having us. Our >>Thanks for having us. And go Aston >>Woo go Aston, you already here first Lisa Martin, no relation to Aston Martin, but well, I wanna thank Christian Peterson and Shannon Edwards for joining me, talking about IFS and Aston Martin team and what they're doing at Speed and Scale. Stick around my next guest joins me in a minute. >>Thank you.

(upbeat music) >> And welcome back. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're excited to welcome Teradata back to theCUBE and today with us at the ARIA is re:MARS conference coverage. It's great to hear with Hillary Ashton, Chief Product Officer of Teradata. Great to have you on. Thanks for coming on. >> John, thanks so much for having me. I'm super excited to be joining you today. >> So re:MARS, what a great event. It brings together the confluence of machine learning, which is data, automation, robotics, and space. Which is to me, is a whole new genre of conversations, around technology and business value. It is going to be a big kind of area. And it's just, again just getting started any one, as they say, and super excited. Tell us about what you guys are doing there and yourself. >> About two and a half years ago I head up the products organization. That means I have responsibility for our roadmap and our and our strategy overall on the product side. Prior to coming Teradata, gosh, I have spent the last 20 years, if I can say that, in the data and analytics space. I grew up in marketing application space, spent 11 years at SaaS, really cut my teeth on hardcore AI, ML and analytics at SaaS, and most recently was at PTC, where I was in charge of, I was a general manager of augmented reality, the business unit at PTC, focused on IOT data and how IOT data and augmented reality can really bring machines to life. >> It's interesting. You talked about SaaS and kind of your background, you know everything SaaSified with the cloud now. So you think about platform as a service, SaaS models emerging, software is an open source game now. So it's an integration cloud-scale data conversation we're seeing. What's your reaction to that? What's your reaction to that kind of idea that, okay, everything's open to source, software value integrating in with data. What's your reaction to that? >> Yeah, I mean, I think open source absolutely has some awesome things going on there. I think there's great opportunities for commercial, reliable, governed software and open source capabilities to come together in an open ecosystem that allow our customers to choose the best way to deliver the analytic outcomes that they're focused on. >> So you guys have been in the news lately around connecting multicloud data analytics platforms and transforming businesses around there, obviously, the background with Teradata is well documented. What's this news about? What's really going on there? You got Vantage platform. What's happening? Take us through that story. What's the key point? >> Yeah, we've worked super hard to deliver a true, multicloud, hybrid, data platform. So, if you think customers, many of our enterprise customers started with on-premises data systems and are moving violently to the cloud, right? So they're super excited about moving to the cloud but being able to deploy on multiple clouds, I think is important and then importantly, sort of this hybrid notion of being able to leverage data that's on-premises and combine it with data in the cloud on AWS, for example. And so being able to do those hybrid use cases you may have data that's like older and kind of archaic, needs to stay on-premises. There's not a lot of value in moving it to the cloud but you want to combine it with some of the innovative, analytic capabilities that perhaps you're doing on AWS. And so Teradata allows you to live in that hybrid multicloud environment and deliver analytic outcomes wherever your data is. >> Hillary, one of the top conversations is data cloud. You got to have a data cloud. I want to deal with this, move this around, but there's a lot of now integration opportunities to bring data from different sources together whether you're in healthcare, all the verticals have the same use case, multiple access to different databases, bringing them all together, ETL, all that old-school stuff is coming back in and being kind of refactored with machine learning, with cloud scale, with platforms like AWS, there's now this new commitment to bringing this to the next level for enterprises. And you mentioned some of those partnerships. What specifically is going on in the cloud that's notable, that's realistically that customers are executing on now? Not the hype, the reality. >> The reality. Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, I think today with Teradata our customers are leveraging something that we call a query fabric. And so this is the idea, as you said, John, that data might be in a lot of different places and you want to be able to get value out of that data without the difficulty of moving it around unnecessarily. Sometimes you want to move it around but unnecessary data movement is both expensive and an inefficient use of precious time. And so I think that there's an opportunity for this query fabric to be able to do remote push-down queries, wherever that data is and return back the results that you are looking for, analytic results, AI and ML results, combining different data that's in different locations to deliver that analytic outcome quickly without having to move the data around. So I would say query fabric is one of the areas that we are super invested in and, today, is delivering real value for our customers. >> It's really interesting. Data being addressable and available, low latency. I mean, we're talking about space, automation, robotics, real-time, so you have different data types stored in different data vehicles or mechanisms that need to be real-time and available. Because machine learning only works as good as the data they has available to it. So again, this is a key, kind of new way that folks are re-architecting. And again, we're here at, at re:MARS, right? I mean to machine learning automation, robotics and space, kind of the real world, physical, digital, trust, scale, huge concepts here. What's the partnership? How's it working with AWS? Take us through that strong partnership that you guys are developing. >> Yeah. I mean, we have a fantastic relationship with AWS. We're really excited that we signed a strategic collaboration agreement at the end of last year that really puts us in an elite category of AWS partners. We're really committed to co-investing and co-engineering with Amazon and our product development organization and also in go-to market and marketing and other parts of our business. As the Chief Product Officer, I'm really excited about three key areas. First is we've optimized Teradata Vantage to run in the AWS cloud at great scale, with unparalleled scale at the highest level for our customers. And so we've partnered with them to be able to handle some of the complex analytic workloads. And we think of analytic models are one part of a workload. There may be other ELT that you talked about, right? Workloads that you may need to run, all of that running at tremendous scale with AWS in the cloud. The second area is deep integration. So Teradata used to think that we were the ecosystem. We built everything soup connects end-to-end. Today, we live in a really exciting data and analytics space and we partner closely with CSPs like AWS, where we are deeply integrated. We have dozens of AWS native integrations in our AWS offer today. And that lets customers take advantage of AWS X3 for Cloud Lake, for example Amazon Kinesis for data ingestion and streaming and on and on. So we're really focused on the integration area there. And then finally, we've developed, co-developed with AWS, a fast and low risk migration approach to move from on-premises to the cloud for our enterprise customers. >> You know, what's interesting is as we kind of weave together, I hear you talking about those three areas. I mentioned earlier at the top of the interview, how integration is now the competitive advantage. Software is almost going commodity with open source because you mentioned that. All good, right? All good stuff. But when you think about kind of the big trends in this new computing world, it's hybrid cloud, it's edge, and IOT, okay? Again, cloud-scale and these new connected points, trust, access, all these things have to be integrated. So integration, you guys have been in the middle, Teradata has been around for a long time, leader in data warehousing, but now with cloud and in the data types, this is a game changer. I mean, this is notable. Can you share more about how you see this evolving with customers because at the end of the day the integration becomes super critical. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I'm super passionate about the opportunities of IOT streaming data. And that's one of the key areas of partnership with Amazon is taking that streaming data, leveraging the analytic opportunities with Amazon. We'll talk about that in just a second, but I think some of the examples that I could share with you, everyone loves to hear, I love to hear, about what actual customers are doing. So Brinker International, they're one of the world's largest casual dining restaurants. If you've ever been to a Chili's Grill or Maggiano's Little Italy those are the guys, Brinker International owns those brands. So we leveraged Amazon SageMaker and Teradata Vantage together to apply advanced analytic and predictive modeling to be able to understand things like demand. And you're in the middle of COVID and trying to understand how many people should you have on staff today? What is the demand going to look like? What should sales look like? What's foot traffic look like? So that demand forecasting capability across their 1,600 different store fronts or restaurant fronts is one of the examples that I could share with you. The other one is Hertz. So one of the world's largest vehicle rental companies. They are using Vantage and AWS together to track and analyze transaction data across all of its global locations and manage again that complex inventory. And some of that is streaming data, some of that is data that we're getting from the cars themselves, and then create a new value-added program to their loyalty members which is sort of the name of the game. Is customer acquisition and extension of brand across those customers. So those are two examples I can share with you. There's many, many others but I know you probably had some other questions. >> Yeah. I want to come back to the SageMaker thing. I think that's important partnership there because it's been one of the fastest growing services. It's always at the top or in the top two or three whenever I talk to Andy Jassy and the team over there. But I want to talk about scalability and I want to ask you, if you can scope for me the scalability of what's going on with this data challenging, 'cause where are we on that scale? Can you share how you would scope the scale? >> Absolutely. And I love talking about scale because it is a home run for Teradata. I think many customers start looking at the cloud and they start with kind of a little tiny baby footprints but we are an enterprise solution, an enterprise platform. And so I think that we're looking at tens of thousands of users and thousands of business critical applications. That's what our customers are doing and have done for decades with Teradata and bringing all of that scale to the cloud. And with AWS in particular, we recently did 1,000 node testing. I'm going to walk through this a little bit slowly, which is hard for me, as you can tell, but it was a single system of more than 1,000 nodes which is just to give you a sense, that's double our largest on-premises system. So it's huge. It was the single largest system. >> John: Double is your largest customer deployment? >> Double our largest customer deployment on-premises. Yeah, that's right. So it was 1,000 nodes with more than 1,000 different users submitting thousands of concurrent queries. So huge enterprise scale. And this was a real-world use case. We took not a traditional benchmark but a real world customer set of mixed workloads. So lots of long running strategic queries and lots of fast running queries that needed really tight SLAs. All of that running simultaneously. We saw no system down times, we were able to roll out and roll back new capabilities seamlessly in a true software as a service fashion. So that was an awesome test all run on AWS. And I think that their team was just as excited as we were about it. >> Well, I love the scale. I love that test you guys ran. I see you're sponsoring re:MARS which is great, congratulations. We love covering since the beginning, we believe of kind of a whole new genre of programming brings together the confluence of exciting technologies that just a decade ago weren't always working together. They were bespoke. >> That's right. Yeah. >> So now it's all integrated in at cloud scale, you got the test, got thousands of concurrents queries. What else are you showcasing? You mentioned the SageMaker because that's really where Amazon's connecting all these tools. How are you integrating in? It sounds like you're bringing all that Amazon goodness in with Teradata and vice versa. >> Absolutely. We're delivering sort of the best in class to our customers jointly. So here re:MARS today, we're really excited to be talking about SageMaker and our relationship with AWS to be able to deliver that seamless integration between our solutions for machine learning services and Teradata Vantage. So I'm sure it won't come as any surprise to you as we just talked about, but we're finding that massive investments in AI and ML and other advanced analytic capabilities are out there, and many organizations are really only experimenting. They're just starting to explore some of these opportunities. We think that there's tremendous value in this scale that we just talked about, that we can offer, combined with best in class AI and ML capabilities like SageMaker. And so we are excited to talk about it. If you want to see it, we've got a booth set up, you can come and take a look at what we're doing there but I think there's huge opportunities for customers to get to the analytic value with Teradata Vantage and AWS SageMaker. >> Yeah, it's great to see Teradata seeing that headroom opportunity to extend the value proposition to kind of new territory with your customers. I can definitely see it. Love the connection here. Where can they learn more about the Teradata partnership with AWS and Amazon? Is there a site? Is there a program coming? Is there any more content that they can be expecting to see? Take a little plug time to plug the company. >> If you insist, I will, John. Thank you. I think, if you're at the event right now, you can swing by Teradata's booth. We're at booth 111. You can get a demo of our SageMaker integration and learn more about both our enterprise scale and the advanced outcomes that we're able to provide to our customers. If you're not at re:MARS and we really think you should be, we would encourage you to sign up for one of our upcoming SageMaker webinars that we're doing with AWS this year. And if you'd like to, you can also just email us at aws@teradata.com. Again, that's aws@teradata.com and we'll set up a private demo for you. >> Well, Hillary Ashton, great to have you on. Chief Product Officer, Teradata, you must be feeling good. You got a lot to work with. You've got an install base. You have new territory to take down. As the Chief Product Officer, you got the keys to the kingdom. Give us a quick bumper sticker of where you guys are going with the product. >> We are fast and furious. My team will tell you, we are so excited to be here with AWS and Teradata is on an epic trajectory forward in our cloud first approach, so we are so excited about our roadmap. If you'd like to learn more, please swing by teradata.com. >> Lot of innovation happening. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Okay, this is theCUBE coverage of Amazon re:MARS machine learning, automation, robotics, and space. It cuts the confluence of digital, virtual data and real-world and space. You can't get any more than this. That's a big edge out there in space. Talk about edge computing and space. Of course, theCUBE's here covering it. I'm John Furrier, your host. Stay with us for more coverage here at Amazon re:MARS. (upbeat music)

>> Okay. We're now going to go into the customer panel, and we'd like to welcome Angelo Fausti, who's a software engineer at the Vera C. Rubin Observatory, and Caleb Maclachlan who's senior spacecraft operations software engineer at Loft Orbital. Guys, thanks for joining us. You don't want to miss folks this interview. Caleb, let's start with you. You work for an extremely cool company, you're launching satellites into space. Of course doing that is highly complex and not a cheap endeavor. Tell us about Loft Orbital and what you guys do to attack that problem. >> Yeah, absolutely. And thanks for having me here by the way. So Loft Orbital is a company that's a series B startup now, who, and our mission basically is to provide rapid access to space for all kinds of customers. Historically, if you want to fly something in space, do something in space, it's extremely expensive. You need to book a launch, build a bus, hire a team to operate it, have a big software teams, and then eventually worry about, a bunch like, just a lot of very specialized engineering. And what we're trying to do is change that from a super specialized problem that has an extremely high barrier of access, to a infrastructure problem. So that it's almost as simple as deploying a VM in AWS or GCP is getting your programs, your mission deployed on orbit with access to different sensors, cameras, radios, stuff like that. So, that's kind of our mission and just to give a really brief example of the kind of customer that we can serve. There's a really cool company called Totum Labs, who is working on building IoT cons, an IoT constellation for, internet of things, basically being able to get telemetry from all over the world. They're the first company to demonstrate indoor IoT which means you have this little modem inside a container that container that you track from anywhere in the world as it's going across the ocean. So, and it's really little, and they've been able to stay a small startup that's focused on their product, which is the, that super crazy, complicated, cool radio, while we handle the whole space segment for them, which just, you know, before Loft was really impossible. So that's our mission is providing space infrastructure as a service. We are kind of groundbreaking in this area and we're serving a huge variety of customers with all kinds of different missions, and obviously generating a ton of data in space that we've got to handle. >> Yeah. So amazing Caleb, what you guys do. Now, I know you were lured to the skies very early in your career, but how did you kind of land in this business? >> Yeah, so, I guess just a little bit about me. For some people, they don't necessarily know what they want to do like earlier in their life. For me I was five years old and I knew I want to be in the space industry. So, I started in the Air Force, but have stayed in the space industry my whole career and been a part of, this is the fifth space startup that I've been a part of actually. So, I've kind of started out in satellites, spent some time in working in the launch industry on rockets, then, now I'm here back in satellites and honestly, this is the most exciting of the different space startups that I've been a part of. >> Super interesting. Okay. Angelo, let's talk about the Rubin Observatory. Vera C. Rubin, famous woman scientist, galaxy guru. Now you guys, the Observatory, you're up way up high, you get a good look at the Southern sky. And I know COVID slowed you guys down a bit, but no doubt you continued to code away on the software. I know you're getting close, you got to be super excited, give us the update on the Observatory and your role. >> All right. So, yeah. Rubin is a state of the art observatory that is in construction on a remote mountain in Chile. And, with Rubin we'll conduct the large survey of space and time. We're going to observe the sky with eight meter optical telescope and take 1000 pictures every night with 2.2 Gigapixel camera. And we are going to do that for 10 years, which is the duration of the survey. >> Yeah, amazing project. Now, you earned a doctor of philosophy so you probably spent some time thinking about what's out there, and then you went out to earn a PhD in astronomy and astrophysics. So, this is something that you've been working on for the better part of your career, isn't it? >> Yeah, that's right, about 15 years. I studied physics in college. Then I got a PhD in astronomy. And, I worked for about five years in another project, the Dark Energy Survey before joining Rubin in 2015. >> Yeah, impressive. So it seems like both your organizations are looking at space from two different angles. One thing you guys both have in common of course is software, and you both use InfluxDB as part of your data infrastructure. How did you discover InfluxDB, get into it? How do you use the platform? Maybe Caleb you could start. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, the first company that I extensively used InfluxDB in, was a launch startup called Astra. And we were in the process of designing our first generation rocket there, and testing the engines, pumps, everything that goes into a rocket. And, when I joined the company our data story was not very mature. We were collecting a bunch of data in LabVIEW and engineers were taking that over to MATLAB to process it. And at first, there, you know, that's the way that a lot of engineers and scientists are used to working. And at first that was, like people weren't entirely sure that that was, that needed to change. But, it's, something, the nice thing about InfluxDB is that, it's so easy to deploy. So as, our software engineering team was able to get it deployed and, up and running very quickly and then quickly also backport all of the data that we collected this far into Influx. And, what was amazing to see and is kind of the super cool moment with Influx is, when we hooked that up to Grafana, Grafana as the visualization platform we used with Influx, 'cause it works really well with it. There was like this aha moment of our engineers who are used to this post process kind of method for dealing with their data, where they could just almost instantly easily discover data that they hadn't been able to see before, and take the manual processes that they would run after a test and just throw those all in Influx and have live data as tests were coming, and, I saw them implementing like crazy rocket equation type stuff in Influx, and it just was totally game changing for how we tested. >> So Angelo, I was explaining in my open, that you could add a column in a traditional RDBMS and do time series, but with the volume of data that you're talking about in the example that Caleb just gave, you have to have a purpose built time series database. Where did you first learn about InfluxDB? >> Yeah, correct. So, I work with the data management team, and my first project was the record metrics that measured the performance of our software, the software that we used to process the data. So I started implementing that in our relational database. But then I realized that in fact I was dealing with time series data and I should really use a solution built for that. And then I started looking at time series databases and I found InfluxDB, and that was back in 2018. The, another use for InfluxDB that I'm also interested is the visits database. If you think about the observations, we are moving the telescope all the time and pointing to specific directions in the sky and taking pictures every 30 seconds. So that itself is a time series. And every point in that time series, we call a visit. So we want to record the metadata about those visits in InfluxDB. That time series is going to be 10 years long, with about 1000 points every night. It's actually not too much data compared to other problems. It's really just a different time scale. >> The telescope at the Rubin Observatory is like, pun intended, I guess the star of the show. And I believe I read that it's going to be the first of the next gen telescopes to come online. It's got this massive field of view, like three orders of magnitude times the Hubble's widest camera view, which is amazing. Like, that's like 40 moons in an image, amazingly fast as well. What else can you tell us about the telescope? >> This telescope it has to move really fast. And, it also has to carry the primary mirror which is an eight meter piece of glass. It's very heavy. And it has to carry a camera which has about the size of a small car. And this whole structure weighs about 300 tons. For that to work, the telescope needs to be very compact and stiff. And one thing that's amazing about it's design is that, the telescope, this 300 tons structure, it sits on a tiny film of oil, which has the diameter of human hair. And that makes an, almost zero friction interface. In fact, a few people can move this enormous structure with only their hands. As you said, another aspect that makes this telescope unique is the optical design. It's a wide field telescope. So, each image has, in diameter the size of about seven full moons. And, with that, we can map the entire sky in only three days. And of course, during operations everything's controlled by software and it is automatic. There's a very complex piece of software called the Scheduler, which is responsible for moving the telescope, and the camera, which is recording 15 terabytes of data every night. >> And Angelo, all this data lands in InfluxDB, correct? And what are you doing with all that data? >> Yeah, actually not. So we use InfluxDB to record engineering data and metadata about the observations. Like telemetry, events, and commands from the telescope. That's a much smaller data set compared to the images. But it is still challenging because you have some high frequency data that the system needs to keep up, and, we need to store this data and have it around for the lifetime of the project. >> Got it. Thank you. Okay, Caleb, let's bring you back in. Tell us more about the, you got these dishwasher size satellites, kind of using a multi-tenant model, I think it's genius. But tell us about the satellites themselves. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, we have in space some satellites already that as you said, are like dishwasher, mini fridge kind of size. And we're working on a bunch more that are a variety of sizes from shoebox to, I guess, a few times larger than what we have today. And it is, we do shoot to have effectively something like a multi-tenant model where we will buy a bus off the shelf. The bus is what you can kind of think of as the core piece of the satellite, almost like a motherboard or something where it's providing the power, it has the solar panels, it has some radios attached to it. It handles the attitude control, basically steers the spacecraft in orbit, and then we build also in-house, what we call our payload hub which is, has all, any customer payloads attached and our own kind of Edge processing sort of capabilities built into it. And, so we integrate that, we launch it, and those things because they're in lower Earth orbit, they're orbiting the earth every 90 minutes. That's, seven kilometers per second which is several times faster than a speeding bullet. So we have one of the unique challenges of operating spacecraft in lower Earth orbit is that generally you can't talk to them all the time. So, we're managing these things through very brief windows of time, where we get to talk to them through our ground sites, either in Antarctica or in the North pole region. >> Talk more about how you use InfluxDB to make sense of this data through all this tech that you're launching into space. >> We basically, previously we started off when I joined the company, storing all of that as Angelo did in a regular relational database. And we found that it was so slow and the size of our data would balloon over the course of a couple days to the point where we weren't able to even store all of the data that we were getting. So we migrated to InfluxDB to store our time series telemetry from the spacecraft. So, that's things like power level, voltage, currents, counts, whatever metadata we need to monitor about the spacecraft, we now store that in InfluxDB. And that has, now we can actually easily store the entire volume of data for the mission life so far without having to worry about the size bloating to an unmanageable amount, and we can also seamlessly query large chunks of data. Like if I need to see, you know, for example, as an operator, I might want to see how my battery state of charge is evolving over the course of the year, I can have, plot in an Influx that loads that in a fraction of a second for a year's worth of data because it does, intelligent, it can intelligently group the data by assigning time interval. So, it's been extremely powerful for us to access the data. And, as time has gone on, we've gradually migrated more and more of our operating data into Influx. >> Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about, we throw this term around a lot of, you know, data driven, a lot of companies say, "Oh yes, we're data driven." But you guys really are, I mean, you got data at the core. Caleb, what does that mean to you? >> Yeah, so, you know, I think the, and the clearest example of when I saw this be like totally game changing is what I mentioned before at Astra where our engineer's feedback loop went from a lot of kind of slow researching, digging into the data to like an instant, instantaneous almost, seeing the data, making decisions based on it immediately rather than having to wait for some processing. And that's something that I've also seen echoed in my current role. But to give another practical example, as I said, we have a huge amount of data that comes down every orbit and we need to be able to ingest all of that data almost instantaneously and provide it to the operator in near real time, about a second worth of latency is all that's acceptable for us to react to see what is coming down from the spacecraft. And building that pipeline is challenging from a software engineering standpoint. My primary language is Python which isn't necessarily that fast. So what we've done is started, and the goal of being data-driven is publish metrics on individual, how individual pieces of our data processing pipeline are performing into Influx as well. And we do that in production as well as in dev. So we have kind of a production monitoring flow. And what that has done is allow us to make intelligent decisions on our software development roadmap where it makes the most sense for us to focus our development efforts in terms of improving our software efficiency, just because we have that visibility into where the real problems are. And sometimes we've found ourselves before we started doing this, kind of chasing rabbits that weren't necessarily the real root cause of issues that we were seeing. But now that we're being a bit more data driven there, we are being much more effective in where we're spending our resources and our time, which is especially critical to us as we scale from supporting a couple of satellites to supporting many, many satellites at once. >> Yeah, of course is how you reduced those dead ends. Maybe Angelo you could talk about what sort of data-driven means to you and your teams. >> I would say that, having real time visibility to the telemetry data and metrics is crucial for us. We need to make sure that the images that we collect with the telescope have good quality, and, that they are within the specifications to meet our science goals. And so if they are not, we want to know that as soon as possible and then start fixing problems. >> Caleb, what are your sort of event, you know, intervals like? >> So I would say that, as of today on the spacecraft, the event, the level of timing that we deal with probably tops out at about 20 Hertz, 20 measurements per second on things like our gyroscopes. But, the, I think the core point here of the ability to have high precision data is extremely important for these kinds of scientific applications and I'll give an example from when I worked at, on the rockets at Astra. There, our baseline data rate that we would ingest data during a test is 500 Hertz. So 500 samples per second, and in some cases we would actually need to ingest much higher rate data, even up to like 1.5 kilohertz, so extremely, extremely high precision data there where timing really matters a lot. And, you know, I can, one of the really powerful things about Influx is the fact that it can handle this. That's one of the reasons we chose it, because, there's, times when we're looking at the results of a firing where you're zooming in, you know, I talked earlier about how on my current job we often zoom out to look at a year's worth of data. You're zooming in to where your screen is preoccupied by a tiny fraction of a second, and you need to see same thing as Angelo just said, not just the actual telemetry, which is coming in at a high rate, but the events that are coming out of our controllers, so that can be something like, "Hey, I opened this valve at exactly this time," and that goes, we want to have that at, micro, or even nanosecond precision so that we know, okay, we saw a spike in chamber pressure at this exact moment, was that before or after this valve opened? That kind of visibility is critical in these kind of scientific applications, and absolutely game changing to be able to see that in near real time, and with, a really easy way for engineers to be able to visualize this data themselves without having to wait for us software engineers to go build it for them. >> Can the scientists do self-serve or do you have to design and build all the analytics and queries for your scientists? >> Well, I think that's absolutely, from my perspective that's absolutely one of the best things about Influx and what I've seen be game changing is that, generally I'd say anyone can learn to use Influx. And honestly, most of our users might not even know they're using Influx, because, the interface that we expose to them is Grafana, which is a generic graphing, open source graphing library that is very similar to Influx zone Chronograf. >> Sure. >> And what it does is, it provides this almost, it's a very intuitive UI for building your queries. So, you choose a measurement and it shows a dropdown of available measurements. And then you choose the particular fields you want to look at, and again, that's a dropdown. So, it's really easy for our users to discover and there's kind of point and click options for doing math, aggregations. You can even do like perfect kind of predictions all within Grafana, the Grafana user interface, which is really just a wrapper around the APIs and functionality that Influx provides. >> Putting data in the hands of those who have the context, the domain experts is key. Angelo, is it the same situation for you, is it self-serve? >> Yeah, correct. As I mentioned before, we have the astronomers making their own dashboards because they know what exactly what they need to visualize. >> Yeah, I mean, it's all about using the right tool for the job. I think for us, when I joined the company we weren't using InfluxDB and we were dealing with serious issues of the database growing to an incredible size extremely quickly, and being unable to like even querying short periods of data was taking on the order of seconds, which is just not possible for operations. >> Guys, this has been really formative, it's pretty exciting to see how the edge, is mountaintops, lower Earth orbits, I mean space is the ultimate edge, isn't it? I wonder if you could answer two questions to wrap here. You know, what comes next for you guys? And is there something that you're really excited about that you're working on? Caleb maybe you could go first and then Angelo you can bring us home. >> Basically what's next for Loft Orbital is more satellites, a greater push towards infrastructure, and really making, our mission is to make space simple for our customers and for everyone. And we're scaling the company like crazy now, making that happen. It's extremely exciting, an extremely exciting time to be in this company and to be in this industry as a whole. Because there are so many interesting applications out there, so many cool ways of leveraging space that people are taking advantage of, and with companies like SpaceX and the, now rapidly lowering cost of launch it's just a really exciting place to be in. We're launching more satellites, we are scaling up for some constellations, and our ground system has to be improved to match. So, there's a lot of improvements that we're working on to really scale up our control software to be best in class and make it capable of handling such a large workload, so. >> Are you guys hiring? >> We are absolutely hiring, so I would, we have positions all over the company, so, we need software engineers, we need people who do more aerospace specific stuff. So absolutely, I'd encourage anyone to check out the Loft Orbital website, if this is at all interesting. >> All right, Angelo, bring us home. >> Yeah. So what's next for us is really getting this telescope working and collecting data. And when that's happened is going to be just a deluge of data coming out of this camera and handling all that data is going to be really challenging. Yeah, I want to be here for that, I'm looking forward. Like for next year we have like an important milestone, which is our commissioning camera, which is a simplified version of the full camera, it's going to be on sky, and so yeah, most of the system has to be working by then. >> Nice. All right guys, with that we're going to end it. Thank you so much, really fascinating, and thanks to InfluxDB for making this possible, really groundbreaking stuff, enabling value creation at the Edge, in the cloud, and of course, beyond at the space. So, really transformational work that you guys are doing, so congratulations and really appreciate the broader community. I can't wait to see what comes next from having this entire ecosystem. Now, in a moment, I'll be back to wrap up. This is Dave Vellante, and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech enterprise coverage. >> Welcome. Telegraf is a popular open source data collection agent. Telegraf collects data from hundreds of systems like IoT sensors, cloud deployments, and enterprise applications. It's used by everyone from individual developers and hobbyists, to large corporate teams. The Telegraf project has a very welcoming and active Open Source community. Learn how to get involved by visiting the Telegraf GitHub page. Whether you want to contribute code, improve documentation, participate in testing, or just show what you're doing with Telegraf. We'd love to hear what you're building. >> Thanks for watching Moving the World with InfluxDB, made possible by Influx Data. I hope you learned some things and are inspired to look deeper into where time series databases might fit into your environment. If you're dealing with large and or fast data volumes, and you want to scale cost effectively with the highest performance, and you're analyzing metrics and data over time, times series databases just might be a great fit for you. Try InfluxDB out. You can start with a free cloud account by clicking on the link in the resources below. Remember, all these recordings are going to be available on demand of thecube.net and influxdata.com, so check those out. And poke around Influx Data. They are the folks behind InfluxDB, and one of the leaders in the space. We hope you enjoyed the program, this is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, we'll see you soon. (upbeat music)

>>Time series data is any data that's stamped in time in some way that could be every second, every minute, every five minutes, every hour, every nanosecond, whatever it might be. And typically that data comes from sources in the physical world like devices or sensors, temperature, gauges, batteries, any device really, or things in the virtual world could be software, maybe it's software in the cloud or data and containers or microservices or virtual machines. So all of these items, whether in the physical or virtual world, they're generating a lot of time series data. Now time series data has been around for a long time, and there are many examples in our everyday lives. All you gotta do is punch up any stock, ticker and look at its price over time and graphical form. And that's a simple use case that anyone can relate to and you can build timestamps into a traditional relational database. >>You just add a column to capture time and as well, there are examples of log data being dumped into a data store that can be searched and captured and ingested and visualized. Now, the problem with the latter example that I just gave you is that you gotta hunt and Peck and search and extract what you're looking for. And the problem with the former is that traditional general purpose databases they're designed as sort of a Swiss army knife for any workload. And there are a lot of functions that get in the way and make them inefficient for time series analysis, especially at scale. Like when you think about O T and edge scale, where things are happening super fast, ingestion is coming from many different sources and analysis often needs to be done in real time or near real time. And that's where time series databases come in. >>They're purpose built and can much more efficiently support ingesting metrics at scale, and then comparing data points over time, time series databases can write and read at significantly higher speeds and deal with far more data than traditional database methods. And they're more cost effective instead of throwing processing power at the problem. For example, the underlying architecture and algorithms of time series databases can optimize queries and they can reclaim wasted storage space and reuse it. At scale time, series databases are simply a better fit for the job. Welcome to moving the world with influx DB made possible by influx data. My name is Dave Valante and I'll be your host today. Influx data is the company behind InfluxDB. The open source time series database InfluxDB is designed specifically to handle time series data. As I just explained, we have an exciting program for you today, and we're gonna showcase some really interesting use cases. >>First, we'll kick it off in our Palo Alto studios where my colleague, John furrier will interview Evan Kaplan. Who's the CEO of influx data after John and Evan set the table. John's gonna sit down with Brian Gilmore. He's the director of IOT and emerging tech at influx data. And they're gonna dig into where influx data is gaining traction and why adoption is occurring and, and why it's so robust. And they're gonna have tons of examples and double click into the technology. And then we bring it back here to our east coast studios, where I get to talk to two practitioners, doing amazing things in space with satellites and modern telescopes. These use cases will blow your mind. You don't want to miss it. So thanks for being here today. And with that, let's get started. Take it away. Palo Alto. >>Okay. Today we welcome Evan Kaplan, CEO of influx data, the company behind influx DB. Welcome Evan. Thanks for coming on. >>Hey John, thanks for having me >>Great segment here on the influx DB story. What is the story? Take us through the history. Why time series? What's the story >><laugh> so the history history is actually actually pretty interesting. Um, Paul dicks, my partner in this and our founder, um, super passionate about developers and developer experience. And, um, he had worked on wall street building a number of time series kind of platform trading platforms for trading stocks. And from his point of view, it was always what he would call a yak shave, which means you had to do a ton of work just to start doing work, which means you had to write a bunch of extrinsic routines. You had to write a bunch of application handling on existing relational databases in order to come up with something that was optimized for a trading platform or a time series platform. And he sort of, he just developed this real clear point of view is this is not how developers should work. And so in 2013, he went through why Combinator and he built something for, he made his first commit to open source in flu DB at the end of 2013. And, and he basically, you know, from my point of view, he invented modern time series, which is you start with a purpose-built time series platform to do these kind of workloads. And you get all the benefits of having something right outta the box. So a developer can be totally productive right away. >>And how many people in the company what's the history of employees and stuff? >>Yeah, I think we're, I, you know, I always forget the number, but it's something like 230 or 240 people now. Um, the company, I joined the company in 2016 and I love Paul's vision. And I just had a strong conviction about the relationship between time series and IOT. Cuz if you think about it, what sensors do is they speak time, series, pressure, temperature, volume, humidity, light, they're measuring they're instrumenting something over time. And so I thought that would be super relevant over long term and I've not regretted it. >>Oh no. And it's interesting at that time, go back in the history, you know, the role of databases, well, relational database is the one database to rule the world. And then as clouds started coming in, you starting to see more databases, proliferate types of databases and time series in particular is interesting. Cuz real time has become super valuable from an application standpoint, O T which speaks time series means something it's like time matters >>Time. >>Yeah. And sometimes data's not worth it after the time, sometimes it worth it. And then you get the data lake. So you have this whole new evolution. Is this the momentum? What's the momentum, I guess the question is what's the momentum behind >>You mean what's causing us to grow. So >>Yeah, the time series, why is time series >>And the >>Category momentum? What's the bottom line? >>Well, think about it. You think about it from a broad, broad sort of frame, which is where, what everybody's trying to do is build increasingly intelligent systems, whether it's a self-driving car or a robotic system that does what you want to do or a self-healing software system, everybody wants to build increasing intelligent systems. And so in order to build these increasing intelligent systems, you have to instrument the system well, and you have to instrument it over time, better and better. And so you need a tool, a fundamental tool to drive that instrumentation. And that's become clear to everybody that that instrumentation is all based on time. And so what happened, what happened, what happened what's gonna happen? And so you get to these applications like predictive maintenance or smarter systems. And increasingly you want to do that stuff, not just intelligently, but fast in real time. So millisecond response so that when you're driving a self-driving car and the system realizes that you're about to do something, essentially you wanna be able to act in something that looks like real time, all systems want to do that, want to be more intelligent and they want to be more real time. And so we just happen to, you know, we happen to show up at the right time in the evolution of a >>Market. It's interesting near real time. Isn't good enough when you need real time. >><laugh> yeah, it's not, it's not. And it's like, and it's like, everybody wants, even when you don't need it, ironically, you want it. It's like having the feature for, you know, you buy a new television, you want that one feature, even though you're not gonna use it, you decide that your buying criteria real time is a buying criteria >>For, so you, I mean, what you're saying then is near real time is getting closer to real time as possible, as fast as possible. Right. Okay. So talk about the aspect of data, cuz we're hearing a lot of conversations on the cube in particular around how people are implementing and actually getting better. So iterating on data, but you have to know when it happened to get, know how to fix it. So this is a big part of how we're seeing with people saying, Hey, you know, I wanna make my machine learning algorithms better after the fact I wanna learn from the data. Um, how does that, how do you see that evolving? Is that one of the use cases of sensors as people bring data in off the network, getting better with the data knowing when it happened? >>Well, for sure. So, so for sure, what you're saying is, is, is none of this is non-linear, it's all incremental. And so if you take something, you know, just as an easy example, if you take a self-driving car, what you're doing is you're instrumenting that car to understand where it can perform in the real world in real time. And if you do that, if you run the loop, which is I instrumented, I watch what happens, oh, that's wrong? Oh, I have to correct for that. I correct for that in the software. If you do that for a billion times, you get a self-driving car, but every system moves along that evolution. And so you get the dynamic of, you know, of constantly instrumenting watching the system behave and do it. And this and sets up driving car is one thing. But even in the human genome, if you look at some of our customers, you know, people like, you know, people doing solar arrays, people doing power walls, like all of these systems are getting smarter. >>Well, let's get into that. What are the top applications? What are you seeing for your, with in, with influx DB, the time series, what's the sweet spot for the application use case and some customers give some >>Examples. Yeah. So it's, it's pretty easy to understand on one side of the equation that's the physical side is sensors are sensors are getting cheap. Obviously we know that and they're getting the whole physical world is getting instrumented, your home, your car, the factory floor, your wrist, watch your healthcare, you name it. It's getting instrumented in the physical world. We're watching the physical world in real time. And so there are three or four sweet spots for us, but, but they're all on that side. They're all about IOT. So they're think about consumer IOT projects like Google's nest todo, um, particle sensors, um, even delivery engines like rapid who deliver the Instacart of south America, like anywhere there's a physical location do and that's on the consumer side. And then another exciting space is the industrial side factories are changing dramatically over time. Increasingly moving away from proprietary equipment to develop or driven systems that run operational because what, what has to get smarter when you're building, when you're building a factory is systems all have to get smarter. And then, um, lastly, a lot in the renewables sustainability. So a lot, you know, Tesla, lucid, motors, Cola, motors, um, you know, lots to do with electric cars, solar arrays, windmills, arrays, just anything that's gonna get instrumented that where that instrumentation becomes part of what the purpose >>Is. It's interesting. The convergence of physical and digital is happening with the data IOT. You mentioned, you know, you think of IOT, look at the use cases there, it was proprietary OT systems. Now becoming more IP enabled internet protocol and now edge compute, getting smaller, faster, cheaper AI going to the edge. Now you have all kinds of new capabilities that bring that real time and time series opportunity. Are you seeing IOT going to a new level? What was the, what's the IOT where's the IOT dots connecting to because you know, as these two cultures merge yeah. Operations, basically industrial factory car, they gotta get smarter, intelligent edge is a buzzword, but I mean, it has to be more intelligent. Where's the, where's the action in all this. So the >>Action, really, it really at the core, it's at the developer, right? Because you're looking at these things, it's very hard to get an off the shelf system to do the kinds of physical and software interaction. So the actions really happen at the developer. And so what you're seeing is a movement in the world that, that maybe you and I grew up in with it or OT moving increasingly that developer driven capability. And so all of these IOT systems they're bespoke, they don't come out of the box. And so the developer, the architect, the CTO, they define what's my business. What am I trying to do? Am I trying to sequence a human genome and figure out when these genes express theself or am I trying to figure out when the next heart rate monitor's gonna show up on my apple watch, right? What am I trying to do? What's the system I need to build. And so starting with the developers where all of the good stuff happens here, which is different than it used to be, right. Used to be you'd buy an application or a service or a SA thing for, but with this dynamic, with this integration of systems, it's all about bespoke. It's all about building >>Something. So let's get to the developer real quick, real highlight point here is the data. I mean, I could see a developer saying, okay, I need to have an application for the edge IOT edge or car. I mean, we're gonna have, I mean, Tesla's got applications of the car it's right there. I mean, yes, there's the modern application life cycle now. So take us through how this impacts the developer. Does it impact their C I C D pipeline? Is it cloud native? I mean, where does this all, where does this go to? >>Well, so first of all, you're talking about, there was an internal journey that we had to go through as a company, which, which I think is fascinating for anybody who's interested is we went from primarily a monolithic software that was open sourced to building a cloud native platform, which means we had to move from an agile development environment to a C I C D environment. So to a degree that you are moving your service, whether it's, you know, Tesla monitoring your car and updating your power walls, right. Or whether it's a solar company updating the arrays, right. To degree that that service is cloud. Then increasingly remove from an agile development to a C I C D environment, which you're shipping code to production every day. And so it's not just the developers, all the infrastructure to support the developers to run that service and that sort of stuff. I think that's also gonna happen in a big way >>When your customer base that you have now, and as you see, evolving with infl DB, is it that they're gonna be writing more of the application or relying more on others? I mean, obviously there's an open source component here. So when you bring in kind of old way, new way old way was I got a proprietary, a platform running all this O T stuff and I gotta write, here's an application. That's general purpose. Yeah. I have some flexibility, somewhat brittle, maybe not a lot of robustness to it, but it does its job >>A good way to think about this is versus a new way >>Is >>What so yeah, good way to think about this is what, what's the role of the developer slash architect CTO that chain within a large, within an enterprise or a company. And so, um, the way to think about it is I started my career in the aerospace industry <laugh> and so when you look at what Boeing does to assemble a plane, they build very, very few of the parts. Instead, what they do is they assemble, they buy the wings, they buy the engines, they assemble, actually, they don't buy the wings. It's the one thing they buy the, the material for the w they build the wings, cuz there's a lot of tech in the wings and they end up being assemblers smart assemblers of what ends up being a flying airplane, which is pretty big deal even now. And so what, what happens with software people is they have the ability to pull from, you know, the best of the open source world. So they would pull a time series capability from us. Then they would assemble that with, with potentially some ETL logic from somebody else, or they'd assemble it with, um, a Kafka interface to be able to stream the data in. And so they become very good integrators and assemblers, but they become masters of that bespoke application. And I think that's where it goes, cuz you're not writing native code for everything. >>So they're more flexible. They have faster time to market cuz they're assembling way faster and they get to still maintain their core competency. Okay. Their wings in this case, >>They become increasingly not just coders, but designers and developers. They become broadly builders is what we like to think of it. People who start and build stuff by the way, this is not different than the people just up the road Google have been doing for years or the tier one, Amazon building all their own. >>Well, I think one of the things that's interesting is is that this idea of a systems developing a system architecture, I mean systems, uh, uh, systems have consequences when you make changes. So when you have now cloud data center on premise and edge working together, how does that work across the system? You can't have a wing that doesn't work with the other wing kind of thing. >>That's exactly. But that's where the that's where the, you know, that that Boeing or that airplane building analogy comes in for us. We've really been thoughtful about that because IOT it's critical. So our open source edge has the same API as our cloud native stuff that has enterprise on pre edge. So our multiple products have the same API and they have a relationship with each other. They can talk with each other. So the builder builds it once. And so this is where, when you start thinking about the components that people have to use to build these services is that you wanna make sure, at least that base layer, that database layer, that those components talk to each other. >>So I'll have to ask you if I'm the customer. I put my customer hat on. Okay. Hey, I'm dealing with a lot. >>That mean you have a PO for <laugh> >>A big check. I blank check. If you can answer this question only if the tech, if, if you get the question right, I got all this important operation stuff. I got my factory, I got my self-driving cars. This isn't like trivial stuff. This is my business. How should I be thinking about time series? Because now I have to make these architectural decisions, as you mentioned, and it's gonna impact my application development. So huge decision point for your customers. What should I care about the most? So what's in it for me. Why is time series >>Important? Yeah, that's a great question. So chances are, if you've got a business that was, you know, 20 years old or 25 years old, you were already thinking about time series. You probably didn't call it that you built something on a Oracle or you built something on IBM's DB two, right. And you made it work within your system. Right? And so that's what you started building. So it's already out there. There are, you know, there are probably hundreds of millions of time series applications out there today. But as you start to think about this increasing need for real time, and you start to think about increasing intelligence, you think about optimizing those systems over time. I hate the word, but digital transformation. Then you start with time series. It's a foundational base layer for any system that you're gonna build. There's no system I can think of where time series, shouldn't be the foundational base layer. If you just wanna store your data and just leave it there and then maybe look it up every five years. That's fine. That's not time. Series time series is when you're building a smarter, more intelligent, more real time system. And the developers now know that. And so the more they play a role in building these systems, the more obvious it becomes. >>And since I have a PO for you and a big check, yeah. What is, what's the value to me as I, when I implement this, what's the end state, what's it look like when it's up and running? What's the value proposition for me. What's an >>So, so when it's up and running, you're able to handle the queries, the writing of the data, the down sampling of the data, they're transforming it in near real time. So that the other dependencies that a system that gets for adjusting a solar array or trading energy off of a power wall or some sort of human genome, those systems work better. So time series is foundational. It's not like it's, you know, it's not like it's doing every action that's above, but it's foundational to build a really compelling, intelligent system. I think that's what developers and archs are seeing now. >>Bottom line, final word. What's in it for the customer. What's what, what's your, um, what's your statement to the customer? What would you say to someone looking to do something in time series on edge? >>Yeah. So, so it's pretty clear to clear to us that if you're building, if you view yourself as being in the build business of building systems that you want 'em to be increasingly intelligent, self-healing autonomous. You want 'em to operate in real time that you start from time series. But I also wanna say what's in it for us influx what's in it for us is people are doing some amazing stuff. You know, I highlighted some of the energy stuff, some of the human genome, some of the healthcare it's hard not to be proud or feel like, wow. Yeah. Somehow I've been lucky. I've arrived at the right time, in the right place with the right people to be able to deliver on that. That's that's also exciting on our side of the equation. >>Yeah. It's critical infrastructure, critical, critical operations. >>Yeah. >>Yeah. Great stuff, Evan. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate this segment. All right. In a moment, Brian Gilmore director of IOT and emerging technology that influx day will join me. You're watching the cube leader in tech coverage. Thanks for watching >>Time series data from sensors systems and applications is a key source in driving automation and prediction in technologies around the world. But managing the massive amount of timestamp data generated these days is overwhelming, especially at scale. That's why influx data developed influx DB, a time series data platform that collects stores and analyzes data influx DB empowers developers to extract valuable insights and turn them into action by building transformative IOT analytics and cloud native applications, purpose built and optimized to handle the scale and velocity of timestamped data. InfluxDB puts the power in your hands with developer tools that make it easy to get started quickly with less code InfluxDB is more than a database. It's a robust developer platform with integrated tooling. That's written in the languages you love. So you can innovate faster, run in flex DB anywhere you want by choosing the provider and region that best fits your needs across AWS, Microsoft Azure and Google cloud flex DB is fast and automatically scalable. So you can spend time delivering value to customers, not managing clusters, take control of your time series data. So you can focus on the features and functionalities that give your applications a competitive edge. Get started for free with influx DB, visit influx data.com/cloud to learn more. >>Okay. Now we're joined by Brian Gilmore director of IOT and emerging technologies at influx data. Welcome to the show. >>Thank you, John. Great to be here. >>We just spent some time with Evan going through the company and the value proposition, um, with influx DV, what's the momentum, where do you see this coming from? What's the value coming out of this? >>Well, I think it, we're sort of hitting a point where the technology is, is like the adoption of it is becoming mainstream. We're seeing it in all sorts of organizations, everybody from like the most well funded sort of advanced big technology companies to the smaller academics, the startups and the managing of that sort of data that emits from that technology is time series and us being able to give them a, a platform, a tool that's super easy to use, easy to start. And then of course will grow with them is, is been key to us. Sort of, you know, riding along with them is they're successful. >>Evan was mentioning that time series has been on everyone's radar and that's in the OT business for years. Now, you go back since 20 13, 14, even like five years ago that convergence of physical and digital coming together, IP enabled edge. Yeah. Edge has always been kind of hyped up, but why now? Why, why is the edge so hot right now from an adoption standpoint? Is it because it's just evolution, the tech getting better? >>I think it's, it's, it's twofold. I think that, you know, there was, I would think for some people, everybody was so focused on cloud over the last probably 10 years. Mm-hmm <affirmative> that they forgot about the compute that was available at the edge. And I think, you know, those, especially in the OT and on the factory floor who weren't able to take Avan full advantage of cloud through their applications, you know, still needed to be able to leverage that compute at the edge. I think the big thing that we're seeing now, which is interesting is, is that there's like a hybrid nature to all of these applications where there's definitely some data that's generated on the edge. There's definitely done some data that's generated in the cloud. And it's the ability for a developer to sort of like tie those two systems together and work with that data in a very unified uniform way. Um, that's giving them the opportunity to build solutions that, you know, really deliver value to whatever it is they're trying to do, whether it's, you know, the, the out reaches of outer space or whether it's optimizing the factory floor. >>Yeah. I think, I think one of the things you also mentions genome too, dig big data is coming to the real world. And I think I, OT has been kind of like this thing for OT and, and in some use case, but now with the, with the cloud, all companies have an edge strategy now. So yeah, what's the secret sauce because now this is hot, hot product for the whole world and not just industrial, but all businesses. What's the secret sauce. >>Well, I mean, I think part of it is just that the technology is becoming more capable and that's especially on the hardware side, right? I mean, like technology compute is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And we find that by supporting all the way down to the edge, even to the micro controller layer with our, um, you know, our client libraries and then working hard to make our applications, especially the database as small as possible so that it can be located as close to sort of the point of origin of that data in the edge as possible is, is, is fantastic. Now you can take that. You can run that locally. You can do your local decision making. You can use influx DB as sort of an input to automation control the autonomy that people are trying to drive at the edge. But when you link it up with everything that's in the cloud, that's when you get all of the sort of cloud scale capabilities of parallelized, AI and machine learning and all of that. >>So what's interesting is the open source success has been something that we've talked about a lot in the cube about how people are leveraging that you guys have users in the enterprise users that IOT market mm-hmm <affirmative>, but you got developers now. Yeah. Kind of together brought that up. How do you see that emerging? How do developers engage? What are some of the things you're seeing that developers are really getting into with InfluxDB >>What's? Yeah. Well, I mean, I think there are the developers who are building companies, right? And these are the startups and the folks that we love to work with who are building new, you know, new services, new products, things like that. And, you know, especially on the consumer side of IOT, there's a lot of that, just those developers. But I think we, you gotta pay attention to those enterprise developers as well, right? There are tons of people with the, the title of engineer in, in your regular enterprise organizations. And they're there for systems integration. They're there for, you know, looking at what they would build versus what they would buy. And a lot of them come from, you know, a strong, open source background and they, they know the communities, they know the top platforms in those spaces and, and, you know, they're excited to be able to adopt and use, you know, to optimize inside the business as compared to just building a brand new one. >>You know, it's interesting too, when Evan and I were talking about open source versus closed OT systems, mm-hmm <affirmative> so how do you support the backwards compatibility of older systems while maintaining open dozens of data formats out there? Bunch of standards, protocols, new things are emerging. Everyone wants to have a control plane. Everyone wants to leverage the value of data. How do you guys keep track of it all? What do you guys support? >>Yeah, well, I mean, I think either through direct connection, like we have a product called Telegraph, it's unbelievable. It's open source, it's an edge agent. You can run it as close to the edge as you'd like, it speaks dozens of different protocols in its own, right? A couple of which MQTT B, C U a are very, very, um, applicable to these T use cases. But then we also, because we are sort of not only open source, but open in terms of our ability to collect data, we have a lot of partners who have built really great integrations from their own middleware, into influx DB. These are companies like ke wear and high bite who are really experts in those downstream industrial protocols. I mean, that's a business, not everybody wants to be in. It requires some very specialized, very hard work and a lot of support, um, you know, and so by making those connections and building those ecosystems, we get the best of both worlds. The customers can use the platforms they need up to the point where they would be putting into our database. >>What's some of customer testimonies that they, that share with you. Can you share some anecdotal kind of like, wow, that's the best thing I've ever used. This really changed my business, or this is a great tech that's helped me in these other areas. What are some of the, um, soundbites you hear from customers when they're successful? >>Yeah. I mean, I think it ranges. You've got customers who are, you know, just finally being able to do the monitoring of assets, you know, sort of at the edge in the field, we have a customer who's who's has these tunnel boring machines that go deep into the earth to like drill tunnels for, for, you know, cars and, and, you know, trains and things like that. You know, they are just excited to be able to stick a database onto those tunnel, boring machines, send them into the depths of the earth and know that when they come out, all of that telemetry at a very high frequency has been like safely stored. And then it can just very quickly and instantly connect up to their, you know, centralized database. So like just having that visibility is brand new to them. And that's super important. On the other hand, we have customers who are way far beyond the monitoring use case, where they're actually using the historical records in the time series database to, um, like I think Evan mentioned like forecast things. So for predictive maintenance, being able to pull in the telemetry from the machines, but then also all of that external enrichment data, the metadata, the temperatures, the pressure is who is operating the machine, those types of things, and being able to easily integrate with platforms like Jupyter notebooks or, you know, all of those scientific computing and machine learning libraries to be able to build the models, train the models, and then they can send that information back down to InfluxDB to apply it and detect those anomalies, which >>Are, I think that's gonna be an, an area. I personally think that's a hot area because I think if you look at AI right now, yeah. It's all about training the machine learning albums after the fact. So time series becomes hugely important. Yeah. Cause now you're thinking, okay, the data matters post time. Yeah. First time. And then it gets updated the new time. Yeah. So it's like constant data cleansing data iteration, data programming. We're starting to see this new use case emerge in the data field. >>Yep. Yeah. I mean, I think you agree. Yeah, of course. Yeah. The, the ability to sort of handle those pipelines of data smartly, um, intelligently, and then to be able to do all of the things you need to do with that data in stream, um, before it hits your sort of central repository. And, and we make that really easy for customers like Telegraph, not only does it have sort of the inputs to connect up to all of those protocols and the ability to capture and connect up to the, to the partner data. But also it has a whole bunch of capabilities around being able to process that data, enrich it, reform at it, route it, do whatever you need. So at that point you're basically able to, you're playing your data in exactly the way you would wanna do it. You're routing it to different, you know, destinations and, and it's, it's, it's not something that really has been in the realm of possibility until this point. Yeah. Yeah. >>And when Evan was on it's great. He was a CEO. So he sees the big picture with customers. He was, he kinda put the package together that said, Hey, we got a system. We got customers, people are wanting to leverage our product. What's your PO they're sell. He's selling too as well. So you have that whole CEO perspective, but he brought up this notion that there's multiple personas involved in kind of the influx DB system architect. You got developers and users. Can you talk about that? Reality as customers start to commercialize and operationalize this from a commercial standpoint, you got a relationship to the cloud. Yep. The edge is there. Yep. The edge is getting super important, but cloud brings a lot of scale to the table. So what is the relationship to the cloud? Can you share your thoughts on edge and its relationship to the cloud? >>Yeah. I mean, I think edge, you know, edges, you can think of it really as like the local information, right? So it's, it's generally like compartmentalized to a point of like, you know, a single asset or a single factory align, whatever. Um, but what people do who wanna pro they wanna be able to make the decisions there at the edge locally, um, quickly minus the latency of sort of taking that large volume of data, shipping it to the cloud and doing something with it there. So we allow them to do exactly that. Then what they can do is they can actually downsample that data or they can, you know, detect like the really important metrics or the anomalies. And then they can ship that to a central database in the cloud where they can do all sorts of really interesting things with it. Like you can get that centralized view of all of your global assets. You can start to compare asset to asset, and then you can do those things like we talked about, whereas you can do predictive types of analytics or, you know, larger scale anomaly detections. >>So in this model you have a lot of commercial operations, industrial equipment. Yep. The physical plant, physical business with virtual data cloud all coming together. What's the future for InfluxDB from a tech standpoint. Cause you got open. Yep. There's an ecosystem there. Yep. You have customers who want operational reliability for sure. I mean, so you got organic <laugh> >>Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, again, we got iPhones when everybody's waiting for flying cars. Right. So I don't know. We can like absolutely perfectly predict what's coming, but I think there are some givens and I think those givens are gonna be that the world is only gonna become more hybrid. Right. And then, you know, so we are going to have much more widely distributed, you know, situations where you have data being generated in the cloud, you have data gen being generated at the edge and then there's gonna be data generated sort sort of at all points in between like physical locations as well as things that are, that are very virtual. And I think, you know, we are, we're building some technology right now. That's going to allow, um, the concept of a database to be much more fluid and flexible, sort of more aligned with what a file would be like. >>And so being able to move data to the compute for analysis or move the compute to the data for analysis, those are the types of, of solutions that we'll be bringing to the customers sort of over the next little bit. Um, but I also think we have to start thinking about like what happens when the edge is actually off the planet. Right. I mean, we've got customers, you're gonna talk to two of them, uh, in the panel who are actually working with data that comes from like outside the earth, like, you know, either in low earth orbit or you know, all the way sort of on the other side of the universe. Yeah. And, and to be able to process data like that and to do so in a way it's it's we gotta, we gotta build the fundamentals for that right now on the factory floor and in the mines and in the tunnels. Um, so that we'll be ready for that one. >>I think you bring up a good point there because one of the things that's common in the industry right now, people are talking about, this is kind of new thinking is hyper scale's always been built up full stack developers, even the old OT world, Evan was pointing out that they built everything right. And the world's going to more assembly with core competency and IP and also property being the core of their apple. So faster assembly and building, but also integration. You got all this new stuff happening. Yeah. And that's to separate out the data complexity from the app. Yes. So space genome. Yep. Driving cars throws off massive data. >>It >>Does. So is Tesla, uh, is the car the same as the data layer? >>I mean the, yeah, it's, it's certainly a point of origin. I think the thing that we wanna do is we wanna let the developers work on the world, changing problems, the things that they're trying to solve, whether it's, you know, energy or, you know, any of the other health or, you know, other challenges that these teams are, are building against. And we'll worry about that time series data and the underlying data platform so that they don't have to. Right. I mean, I think you talked about it, uh, you know, for them just to be able to adopt the platform quickly, integrate it with their data sources and the other pieces of their applications. It's going to allow them to bring much faster time to market on these products. It's gonna allow them to be more iterative. They're gonna be able to do more sort of testing and things like that. And ultimately it will, it'll accelerate the adoption and the creation of >>Technology. You mentioned earlier in, in our talk about unification of data. Yeah. How about APIs? Cuz developers love APIs in the cloud unifying APIs. How do you view view that? >>Yeah, I mean, we are APIs, that's the product itself. Like everything, people like to think of it as sort of having this nice front end, but the front end is B built on our public APIs. Um, you know, and it, it allows the developer to build all of those hooks for not only data creation, but then data processing, data analytics, and then, you know, sort of data extraction to bring it to other platforms or other applications, microservices, whatever it might be. So, I mean, it is a world of APIs right now and you know, we, we bring a very sort of useful set of them for managing the time series data. These guys are all challenged with. It's >>Interesting. You and I were talking before we came on camera about how, um, data is, feels gonna have this kind of SRE role that DevOps had site reliability engineers, which manages a bunch of servers. There's so much data out there now. Yeah. >>Yeah. It's like reigning data for sure. And I think like that ability to be like one of the best jobs on the planet is gonna be to be able to like, sort of be that data Wrangler to be able to understand like what the data sources are, what the data formats are, how to be able to efficiently move that data from point a to point B and you know, to process it correctly so that the end users of that data aren't doing any of that sort of hard upfront preparation collection storage's >>Work. Yeah. That's data as code. I mean, data engineering is it is becoming a new discipline for sure. And, and the democratization is the benefit. Yeah. To everyone, data science get easier. I mean data science, but they wanna make it easy. Right. <laugh> yeah. They wanna do the analysis, >>Right? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, it, it's a really good point. I think like we try to give our users as many ways as there could be possible to get data in and get data out. We sort of think about it as meeting them where they are. Right. So like we build, we have the sort of client libraries that allow them to just port to us, you know, directly from the applications and the languages that they're writing, but then they can also pull it out. And at that point nobody's gonna know the users, the end consumers of that data, better than those people who are building those applications. And so they're building these user interfaces, which are making all of that data accessible for, you know, their end users inside their organization. >>Well, Brian, great segment, great insight. Thanks for sharing all, all the complexities and, and IOT that you guys helped take away with the APIs and, and assembly and, and all the system architectures that are changing edge is real cloud is real. Yeah, absolutely. Mainstream enterprises. And you got developer attraction too, so congratulations. >>Yeah. It's >>Great. Well, thank any, any last word you wanna share >>Deal with? No, just, I mean, please, you know, if you're, if you're gonna, if you're gonna check out influx TV, download it, try out the open source contribute if you can. That's a, that's a huge thing. It's part of being the open source community. Um, you know, but definitely just, just use it. I think when once people use it, they try it out. They'll understand very, >>Very quickly. So open source with developers, enterprise and edge coming together all together. You're gonna hear more about that in the next segment, too. Right. Thanks for coming on. Okay. Thanks. When we return, Dave LAN will lead a panel on edge and data influx DB. You're watching the cube, the leader in high tech enterprise coverage. >>Why the startup, we move really fast. We find that in flex DB can move as fast as us. It's just a great group, very collaborative, very interested in manufacturing. And we see a bright future in working with influence. My name is Aaron Seley. I'm the CTO at HBI. Highlight's one of the first companies to focus on manufacturing data and apply the concepts of data ops, treat that as an asset to deliver to the it system, to enable applications like overall equipment effectiveness that can help the factory produce better, smarter, faster time series data. And manufacturing's really important. If you take a piece of equipment, you have the temperature pressure at the moment that you can look at to kind of see the state of what's going on. So without that context and understanding you can't do what manufacturers ultimately want to do, which is predict the future. >>Influx DB represents kind of a new way to storm time series data with some more advanced technology and more importantly, more open technologies. The other thing that influx does really well is once the data's influx, it's very easy to get out, right? They have a modern rest API and other ways to access the data. That would be much more difficult to do integrations with classic historians highlight can serve to model data, aggregate data on the shop floor from a multitude of sources, whether that be P C U a servers, manufacturing execution systems, E R P et cetera, and then push that seamlessly into influx to then be able to run calculations. Manufacturing is changing this industrial 4.0, and what we're seeing is influx being part of that equation. Being used to store data off the unified name space, we recommend InfluxDB all the time to customers that are exploring a new way to share data manufacturing called the unified name space who have open questions around how do I share this new data that's coming through my UNS or my QTT broker? How do I store this and be able to query it over time? And we often point to influx as a solution for that is a great brand. It's a great group of people and it's a great technology. >>Okay. We're now going to go into the customer panel and we'd like to welcome Angelo Fasi. Who's a software engineer at the Vera C Ruben observatory in Caleb McLaughlin whose senior spacecraft operations software engineer at loft orbital guys. Thanks for joining us. You don't wanna miss folks this interview, Caleb, let's start with you. You work for an extremely cool company. You're launching satellites into space. I mean, there, of course doing that is, is highly complex and not a cheap endeavor. Tell us about loft Orbi and what you guys do to attack that problem. >>Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, thanks for having me here by the way. Uh, so loft orbital is a, uh, company. That's a series B startup now, uh, who and our mission basically is to provide, uh, rapid access to space for all kinds of customers. Uh, historically if you want to fly something in space, do something in space, it's extremely expensive. You need to book a launch, build a bus, hire a team to operate it, you know, have a big software teams, uh, and then eventually worry about, you know, a bunch like just a lot of very specialized engineering. And what we're trying to do is change that from a super specialized problem that has an extremely high barrier of access to a infrastructure problem. So that it's almost as simple as, you know, deploying a VM in, uh, AWS or GCP is getting your, uh, programs, your mission deployed on orbit, uh, with access to, you know, different sensors, uh, cameras, radios, stuff like that. >>So that's, that's kind of our mission. And just to give a really brief example of the kind of customer that we can serve. Uh, there's a really cool company called, uh, totem labs who is working on building, uh, IOT cons, an IOT constellation for in of things, basically being able to get telemetry from all over the world. They're the first company to demonstrate indoor T, which means you have this little modem inside a container container that you, that you track from anywhere in the world as it's going across the ocean. Um, so they're, it's really little and they've been able to stay a small startup that's focused on their product, which is the, uh, that super crazy complicated, cool radio while we handle the whole space segment for them, which just, you know, before loft was really impossible. So that's, our mission is, uh, providing space infrastructure as a service. We are kind of groundbreaking in this area and we're serving, you know, a huge variety of customers with all kinds of different missions, um, and obviously generating a ton of data in space, uh, that we've gotta handle. Yeah. >>So amazing Caleb, what you guys do, I, now I know you were lured to the skies very early in your career, but how did you kinda land on this business? >>Yeah, so, you know, I've, I guess just a little bit about me for some people, you know, they don't necessarily know what they wanna do like early in their life. For me, I was five years old and I knew, you know, I want to be in the space industry. So, you know, I started in the air force, but have, uh, stayed in the space industry, my whole career and been a part of, uh, this is the fifth space startup that I've been a part of actually. So, you know, I've, I've, uh, kind of started out in satellites, did spent some time in working in, uh, the launch industry on rockets. Then, uh, now I'm here back in satellites and you know, honestly, this is the most exciting of the difference based startups. That I've been a part of >>Super interesting. Okay. Angelo, let's, let's talk about the Ruben observatory, ver C Ruben, famous woman scientist, you know, galaxy guru. Now you guys the observatory, you're up way up high. You're gonna get a good look at the Southern sky. Now I know COVID slowed you guys down a bit, but no doubt. You continued to code away on the software. I know you're getting close. You gotta be super excited. Give us the update on, on the observatory and your role. >>All right. So yeah, Rubin is a state of the art observatory that, uh, is in construction on a remote mountain in Chile. And, um, with Rubin, we conduct the, uh, large survey of space and time we are going to observe the sky with, uh, eight meter optical telescope and take, uh, a thousand pictures every night with a 3.2 gig up peaks of camera. And we are going to do that for 10 years, which is the duration of the survey. >>Yeah. Amazing project. Now you, you were a doctor of philosophy, so you probably spent some time thinking about what's out there and then you went out to earn a PhD in astronomy, in astrophysics. So this is something that you've been working on for the better part of your career, isn't it? >>Yeah, that's that's right. Uh, about 15 years, um, I studied physics in college, then I, um, got a PhD in astronomy and, uh, I worked for about five years in another project. Um, the dark energy survey before joining rubing in 2015. >>Yeah. Impressive. So it seems like you both, you know, your organizations are looking at space from two different angles. One thing you guys both have in common of course is, is, is software. And you both use InfluxDB as part of your, your data infrastructure. How did you discover influx DB get into it? How do you use the platform? Maybe Caleb, you could start. >>Uh, yeah, absolutely. So the first company that I extensively used, uh, influx DBN was a launch startup called, uh, Astra. And we were in the process of, uh, designing our, you know, our first generation rocket there and testing the engines, pumps, everything that goes into a rocket. Uh, and when I joined the company, our data story was not, uh, very mature. We were collecting a bunch of data in LabVIEW and engineers were taking that over to MATLAB to process it. Um, and at first there, you know, that's the way that a lot of engineers and scientists are used to working. Um, and at first that was, uh, like people weren't entirely sure that that was a, um, that that needed to change, but it's something the nice thing about InfluxDB is that, you know, it's so easy to deploy. So as the, our software engineering team was able to get it deployed and, you know, up and running very quickly and then quickly also backport all of the data that we collected thus far into influx and what, uh, was amazing to see. >>And as kind of the, the super cool moment with influx is, um, when we hooked that up to Grafana Grafana as the visualization platform we used with influx, cuz it works really well with it. Uh, there was like this aha moment of our engineers who are used to this post process kind of method for dealing with their data where they could just almost instantly easily discover data that they hadn't been able to see before and take the manual processes that they would run after a test and just throw those all in influx and have live data as tests were coming. And, you know, I saw them implementing like crazy rocket equation type stuff in influx, and it just was totally game changing for how we tested. >>So Angelo, I was explaining in my open, you know, you could, you could add a column in a traditional RDBMS and do time series, but with the volume of data that you're talking about, and the example of the Caleb just gave you, I mean, you have to have a purpose built time series database, where did you first learn about influx DB? >>Yeah, correct. So I work with the data management team, uh, and my first project was the record metrics that measured the performance of our software, uh, the software that we used to process the data. So I started implementing that in a relational database. Um, but then I realized that in fact, I was dealing with time series data and I should really use a solution built for that. And then I started looking at time series databases and I found influx B. And that was, uh, back in 2018. The another use for influx DB that I'm also interested is the visits database. Um, if you think about the observations we are moving the telescope all the time in pointing to specific directions, uh, in the Skype and taking pictures every 30 seconds. So that itself is a time series. And every point in that time series, uh, we call a visit. So we want to record the metadata about those visits and flex to, uh, that time here is going to be 10 years long, um, with about, uh, 1000 points every night. It's actually not too much data compared to other, other problems. It's, uh, really just a different, uh, time scale. >>The telescope at the Ruben observatory is like pun intended, I guess the star of the show. And I, I believe I read that it's gonna be the first of the next gen telescopes to come online. It's got this massive field of view, like three orders of magnitude times the Hub's widest camera view, which is amazing, right? That's like 40 moons in, in an image amazingly fast as well. What else can you tell us about the telescope? >>Um, this telescope, it has to move really fast and it also has to carry, uh, the primary mirror, which is an eight meter piece of glass. It's very heavy and it has to carry a camera, which has about the size of a small car. And this whole structure weighs about 300 tons for that to work. Uh, the telescope needs to be, uh, very compact and stiff. Uh, and one thing that's amazing about it's design is that the telescope, um, is 300 tons structure. It sits on a tiny film of oil, which has the diameter of, uh, human hair. And that makes an almost zero friction interface. In fact, a few people can move these enormous structure with only their hands. Uh, as you said, uh, another aspect that makes this telescope unique is the optical design. It's a wide field telescope. So each image has, uh, in diameter the size of about seven full moons. And, uh, with that, we can map the entire sky in only, uh, three days. And of course doing operations everything's, uh, controlled by software and it is automatic. Um there's a very complex piece of software, uh, called the scheduler, which is responsible for moving the telescope, um, and the camera, which is, uh, recording 15 terabytes of data every night. >>Hmm. And, and, and Angela, all this data lands in influx DB. Correct. And what are you doing with, with all that data? >>Yeah, actually not. Um, so we are using flex DB to record engineering data and metadata about the observations like telemetry events and commands from the telescope. That's a much smaller data set compared to the images, but it is still challenging because, uh, you, you have some high frequency data, uh, that the system needs to keep up and we need to, to start this data and have it around for the lifetime of the price. Mm, >>Got it. Thank you. Okay, Caleb, let's bring you back in and can tell us more about the, you got these dishwasher size satellites. You're kind of using a multi-tenant model. I think it's genius, but, but tell us about the satellites themselves. >>Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, we have in space, some satellites already that as you said, are like dishwasher, mini fridge kind of size. Um, and we're working on a bunch more that are, you know, a variety of sizes from shoebox to, I guess, a few times larger than what we have today. Uh, and it is, we do shoot to have effectively something like a multi-tenant model where, uh, we will buy a bus off the shelf. The bus is, uh, what you can kind of think of as the core piece of the satellite, almost like a motherboard or something where it's providing the power. It has the solar panels, it has some radios attached to it. Uh, it handles the attitude control, basically steers the spacecraft in orbit. And then we build also in house, what we call our payload hub, which is, has all, any customer payloads attached and our own kind of edge processing sort of capabilities built into it. >>And, uh, so we integrate that. We launch it, uh, and those things, because they're in lower orbit, they're orbiting the earth every 90 minutes. That's, you know, seven kilometers per second, which is several times faster than a speeding bullet. So we've got, we have, uh, one of the unique challenges of operating spacecraft and lower orbit is that generally you can't talk to them all the time. So we're managing these things through very brief windows of time, uh, where we get to talk to them through our ground sites, either in Antarctica or, you know, in the north pole region. >>Talk more about how you use influx DB to make sense of this data through all this tech that you're launching into space. >>We basically previously we started off when I joined the company, storing all of that as Angelo did in a regular relational database. And we found that it was, uh, so slow in the size of our data would balloon over the course of a couple days to the point where we weren't able to even store all of the data that we were getting. Uh, so we migrated to influx DB to store our time series telemetry from the spacecraft. So, you know, that's things like, uh, power level voltage, um, currents counts, whatever, whatever metadata we need to monitor about the spacecraft. We now store that in, uh, in influx DB. Uh, and that has, you know, now we can actually easily store the entire volume of data for the mission life so far without having to worry about, you know, the size bloating to an unmanageable amount. >>And we can also seamlessly query, uh, large chunks of data. Like if I need to see, you know, for example, as an operator, I might wanna see how my, uh, battery state of charge is evolving over the course of the year. I can have a plot and an influx that loads that in a fraction of a second for a year's worth of data, because it does, you know, intelligent, um, I can intelligently group the data by, uh, sliding time interval. Uh, so, you know, it's been extremely powerful for us to access the data and, you know, as time has gone on, we've gradually migrated more and more of our operating data into influx. >>You know, let's, let's talk a little bit, uh, uh, but we throw this term around a lot of, you know, data driven, a lot of companies say, oh, yes, we're data driven, but you guys really are. I mean, you' got data at the core, Caleb, what does that, what does that mean to you? >>Yeah, so, you know, I think the, and the clearest example of when I saw this be like totally game changing is what I mentioned before at Astro where our engineer's feedback loop went from, you know, a lot of kind of slow researching, digging into the data to like an instant instantaneous, almost seeing the data, making decisions based on it immediately, rather than having to wait for some processing. And that's something that I've also seen echoed in my current role. Um, but to give another practical example, uh, as I said, we have a huge amount of data that comes down every orbit, and we need to be able to ingest all of that data almost instantaneously and provide it to the operator. And near real time, you know, about a second worth of latency is all that's acceptable for us to react to, to see what is coming down from the spacecraft and building that pipeline is challenging from a software engineering standpoint. >>Um, our primary language is Python, which isn't necessarily that fast. So what we've done is started, you know, in the, in the goal of being data driven is publish metrics on individual, uh, how individual pieces of our data processing pipeline are performing into influx as well. And we do that in production as well as in dev. Uh, so we have kind of a production monitoring, uh, flow. And what that has done is allow us to make intelligent decisions on our software development roadmap, where it makes the most sense for us to, uh, focus our development efforts in terms of improving our software efficiency. Uh, just because we have that visibility into where the real problems are. Um, it's sometimes we've found ourselves before we started doing this kind of chasing rabbits that weren't necessarily the real root cause of issues that we were seeing. Uh, but now, now that we're being a bit more data driven, there we are being much more effective in where we're spending our resources and our time, which is especially critical to us as we scale to, from supporting a couple satellites, to supporting many, many satellites at >>Once. Yeah. Coach. So you reduced those dead ends, maybe Angela, you could talk about what, what sort of data driven means to, to you and your teams? >>I would say that, um, having, uh, real time visibility, uh, to the telemetry data and, and metrics is, is, is crucial for us. We, we need, we need to make sure that the image that we collect with the telescope, uh, have good quality and, um, that they are within the specifications, uh, to meet our science goals. And so if they are not, uh, we want to know that as soon as possible and then, uh, start fixing problems. >>Caleb, what are your sort of event, you know, intervals like? >>So I would say that, you know, as of today on the spacecraft, the event, the, the level of timing that we deal with probably tops out at about, uh, 20 Hertz, 20 measurements per second on, uh, things like our, uh, gyroscopes, but the, you know, I think the, the core point here of the ability to have high precision data is extremely important for these kinds of scientific applications. And I'll give an example, uh, from when I worked at, on the rocket at Astra there, our baseline data rate that we would ingest data during a test is, uh, 500 Hertz. So 500 samples per second. And in some cases we would actually, uh, need to ingest much higher rate data, even up to like 1.5 kilohertz. So, uh, extremely, extremely high precision, uh, data there where timing really matters a lot. And, uh, you know, I can, one of the really powerful things about influx is the fact that it can handle this. >>That's one of the reasons we chose it, uh, because there's times when we're looking at the results of a firing where you're zooming in, you know, I talked earlier about how on my current job, we often zoom out to look, look at a year's worth of data. You're zooming in to where your screen is preoccupied by a tiny fraction of a second. And you need to see same thing as Angela just said, not just the actual telemetry, which is coming in at a high rate, but the events that are coming out of our controllers. So that can be something like, Hey, I opened this valve at exactly this time and that goes, we wanna have that at, you know, micro or even nanosecond precision so that we know, okay, we saw a spike in chamber pressure at, you know, at this exact moment, was that before or after this valve open, those kind of, uh, that kind of visibility is critical in these kind of scientific, uh, applications and absolutely game changing to be able to see that in, uh, near real time and, uh, with a really easy way for engineers to be able to visualize this data themselves without having to wait for, uh, software engineers to go build it for them. >>Can the scientists do self-serve or are you, do you have to design and build all the analytics and, and queries for your >>Scientists? Well, I think that's, that's absolutely from, from my perspective, that's absolutely one of the best things about influx and what I've seen be game changing is that, uh, generally I'd say anyone can learn to use influx. Um, and honestly, most of our users might not even know they're using influx, um, because what this, the interface that we expose to them is Grafana, which is, um, a generic graphing, uh, open source graphing library that is very similar to influx own chronograph. Sure. And what it does is, uh, let it provides this, uh, almost it's a very intuitive UI for building your queries. So you choose a measurement and it shows a dropdown of available measurements. And then you choose a particular, the particular field you wanna look at. And again, that's a dropdown, so it's really easy for our users to discover. And there's kind of point and click options for doing math aggregations. You can even do like perfect kind of predictions all within Grafana, the Grafana user interface, which is really just a wrapper around the APIs and functionality of the influx provides putting >>Data in the hands of those, you know, who have the context of domain experts is, is key. Angela, is it the same situation for you? Is it self serve? >>Yeah, correct. Uh, as I mentioned before, um, we have the astronomers making their own dashboards because they know what exactly what they, they need to, to visualize. Yeah. I mean, it's all about using the right tool for the job. I think, uh, for us, when I joined the company, we weren't using influx DB and we, we were dealing with serious issues of the database growing to an incredible size extremely quickly, and being unable to like even querying short periods of data was taking on the order of seconds, which is just not possible for operations >>Guys. This has been really formative it's, it's pretty exciting to see how the edge is mountaintops, lower orbits to be space is the ultimate edge. Isn't it. I wonder if you could answer two questions to, to wrap here, you know, what comes next for you guys? Uh, and is there something that you're really excited about that, that you're working on Caleb, maybe you could go first and an Angela, you can bring us home. >>Uh, basically what's next for loft. Orbital is more, more satellites, a greater push towards infrastructure and really making, you know, our mission is to make space simple for our customers and for everyone. And we're scaling the company like crazy now, uh, making that happen, it's extremely exciting and extremely exciting time to be in this company and to be in this industry as a whole, because there are so many interesting applications out there. So many cool ways of leveraging space that, uh, people are taking advantage of. And with, uh, companies like SpaceX and the now rapidly lowering cost, cost of launch, it's just a really exciting place to be. And we're launching more satellites. We are scaling up for some constellations and our ground system has to be improved to match. So there's a lot of, uh, improvements that we're working on to really scale up our control software, to be best in class and, uh, make it capable of handling such a large workload. So >>You guys hiring >><laugh>, we are absolutely hiring. So, uh, I would in we're we need, we have PE positions all over the company. So, uh, we need software engineers. We need people who do more aerospace, specific stuff. So, uh, absolutely. I'd encourage anyone to check out the loft orbital website, if there's, if this is at all interesting. >>All right. Angela, bring us home. >>Yeah. So what's next for us is really, uh, getting this, um, telescope working and collecting data. And when that's happen is going to be just, um, the Lu of data coming out of this camera and handling all, uh, that data is going to be really challenging. Uh, yeah. I wanna wanna be here for that. <laugh> I'm looking forward, uh, like for next year we have like an important milestone, which is our, um, commissioning camera, which is a simplified version of the, of the full camera it's going to be on sky. And so yeah, most of the system has to be working by them. >>Nice. All right, guys, you know, with that, we're gonna end it. Thank you so much, really fascinating, and thanks to influx DB for making this possible, really groundbreaking stuff, enabling value creation at the edge, you know, in the cloud and of course, beyond at the space. So really transformational work that you guys are doing. So congratulations and really appreciate the broader community. I can't wait to see what comes next from having this entire ecosystem. Now, in a moment, I'll be back to wrap up. This is Dave ante, and you're watching the cube, the leader in high tech enterprise coverage. >>Welcome Telegraph is a popular open source data collection. Agent Telegraph collects data from hundreds of systems like IOT sensors, cloud deployments, and enterprise applications. It's used by everyone from individual developers and hobbyists to large corporate teams. The Telegraph project has a very welcoming and active open source community. Learn how to get involved by visiting the Telegraph GitHub page, whether you want to contribute code, improve documentation, participate in testing, or just show what you're doing with Telegraph. We'd love to hear what you're building. >>Thanks for watching. Moving the world with influx DB made possible by influx data. I hope you learn some things and are inspired to look deeper into where time series databases might fit into your environment. If you're dealing with large and or fast data volumes, and you wanna scale cost effectively with the highest performance and you're analyzing metrics and data over time times, series databases just might be a great fit for you. Try InfluxDB out. You can start with a free cloud account by clicking on the link and the resources below. Remember all these recordings are gonna be available on demand of the cube.net and influx data.com. So check those out and poke around influx data. They are the folks behind InfluxDB and one of the leaders in the space, we hope you enjoyed the program. This is Dave Valante for the cube. We'll see you soon.

(upbeat music) >> Okay, we're now going to go into the customer panel. And we'd like to welcome Angelo Fausti, who's software engineer at the Vera C Rubin Observatory, and Caleb Maclachlan, who's senior spacecraft operations software engineer at Loft Orbital. Guys, thanks for joining us. You don't want to miss folks, this interview. Caleb, let's start with you. You work for an extremely cool company. You're launching satellites into space. Cause doing that is highly complex and not a cheap endeavor. Tell us about Loft Orbital and what you guys do to attack that problem? >> Yeah, absolutely. And thanks for having me here, by the way. So Loft Orbital is a company that's a series B startup now. And our mission basically is to provide rapid access to space for all kinds of customers. Historically, if you want to fly something in space, do something in space, it's extremely expensive. You need to book a launch, build a bus, hire a team to operate it, have big software teams, and then eventually worry about a lot of very specialized engineering. And what we're trying to do is, change that from a super specialized problem that has an extremely high barrier of access to a infrastructure problem. So that it's almost as simple as deploying a VM in AWS or GCP, as getting your programs, your mission deployed on orbit, with access to different sensors, cameras, radios, stuff like that. So that's kind of our mission. And just to give a really brief example of the kind of customer that we can serve. There's a really cool company called Totum labs, who is working on building an IoT constellation, for Internet of Things. Basically being able to get telemetry from all over the world. They're the first company to demonstrate indoor IoT, which means you have this little modem inside a container. A container that you track from anywhere on the world as it's going across the ocean. So it's really little. And they've been able to stay small startup that's focused on their product, which is that super crazy, complicated, cool radio, while we handle the whole space segment for them, which just, before Loft was really impossible. So that's our mission is, providing space infrastructure as a service. We are kind of groundbreaking in this area, and we're serving a huge variety of customers with all kinds of different missions, and obviously, generating a ton of data in space that we've got to handle. >> Yeah, so amazing, Caleb, what you guys do. I know you were lured to the skies very early in your career, but how did you kind of land in this business? >> Yeah, so I guess just a little bit about me. For some people, they don't necessarily know what they want to do, early in their life. For me, I was five years old and I knew, I want to be in the space industry. So I started in the Air Force, but have stayed in the space industry my whole career and been a part of, this is the fifth space startup that I've been a part of, actually. So I've kind of started out in satellites, did spend some time in working in the launch industry on rockets. Now I'm here back in satellites. And honestly, this is the most exciting of the different space startups that I've been a part of. So, always been passionate about space and basically writing software for operating in space for basically extending how we write software into orbit. >> Super interesting. Okay, Angelo. Let's talk about the Rubin Observatory Vera C. Rubin, famous woman scientists, Galaxy guru, Now you guys, the observatory are up, way up high, you're going to get a good look at the southern sky. I know COVID slowed you guys down a bit. But no doubt you continue to code away on the software. I know you're getting close. You got to be super excited. Give us the update on the observatory and your role. >> All right. So yeah, Rubin is state of the art observatory that is in construction on a remote mountain in Chile. And with Rubin we'll conduct the large survey of space and time. We are going to observe the sky with eight meter optical telescope and take 1000 pictures every night with 3.2 gigapixel camera. And we're going to do that for 10 years, which is the duration of the survey. The goal is to produce an unprecedented data set. Which is going to be about .5 exabytes of image data. And from these images will detect and measure the properties of billions of astronomical objects. We are also building a science platform that's hosted on Google Cloud, so that the scientists and the public can explore this data to make discoveries. >> Yeah, amazing project. Now, you aren't a Doctor of Philosophy. So you probably spent some time thinking about what's out there. And then you went on to earn a PhD in astronomy and astrophysics. So this is something that you've been working on for the better part of your career, isn't it? >> Yeah, that's right. About 15 years. I studied physics in college, then I got a PhD in astronomy. And I worked for about five years in another project, the Dark Energy survey before joining Rubin in 2015. >> Yeah, impressive. So it seems like both your organizations are looking at space from two different angles. One thing you guys both have in common, of course, is software. And you both use InfluxDB as part of your data infrastructure. How did you discover InfluxDB, get into it? How do you use the platform? Maybe Caleb, you can start. >> Yeah, absolutely. So the first company that I extensively used InfluxDB in was a launch startup called Astra. And we were in the process of designing our first generation rocket there and testing the engines, pumps. Everything that goes into a rocket. And when I joined the company, our data story was not very mature. We were collecting a bunch of data in LabVIEW. And engineers were taking that over to MATLAB to process it. And at first, that's the way that a lot of engineers and scientists are used to working. And at first that was, like, people weren't entirely sure that, that needed to change. But it's something, the nice thing about InfluxDB is that, it's so easy to deploy. So our software engineering team was able to get it deployed and up and running very quickly and then quickly also backport all of the data that we've collected thus far into Influx. And what was amazing to see and it's kind of the super cool moment with Influx is, when we hooked that up to Grafana, Grafana, is the visualization platform we use with influx, because it works really well with it. There was like this aha moment of our engineers who are used to this post process kind of method for dealing with their data, where they could just almost instantly, easily discover data that they hadn't been able to see before. And take the manual processes that they would run after a test and just throw those all in Influx and have live data as tests were coming. And I saw them implementing crazy rocket equation type stuff in Influx and it just was totally game changing for how we tested. And things that previously it would be like run a test, then wait an hour for the engineers to crunch the data and then we run another test with some changed parameters or a changed startup sequence or something like that, became, by the time the test is over, the engineers know what the next step is, because they have this just like instant game changing access to data. So since that experience, basically everywhere I've gone, every company since then, I've been promoting InfluxDB and using it and spinning it up and quickly showing people how simple and easy it is. >> Yeah, thank you. So Angelo, I was explaining in my open that, you know you could add a column in a traditional RDBMS and do time series. But with the volume of data that you're talking about in the example that Caleb just gave, you have to have a purpose built time series database. Where did you first learn about InfluxDB? >> Yeah, correct. So I worked with the data management team and my first project was the record metrics that measure the performance of our software. The software that we use to process the data. So I started implementing that in our relational database. But then I realized that in fact, I was dealing with time series data. And I should really use a solution built for that. And then I started looking at time series databases and I found InfluxDB, that was back in 2018. Then I got involved in another project. To record telemetry data from the telescope itself. It's very challenging because you have so many subsystems and sensors, producing data. And with that data, the goal is to look at the telescope harder in real time so we can make decisions and make sure that everything's doing the right thing. And another use for InfluxDB that I'm also interested, is the visits database. If you think about the observations, we are moving the telescope all the time and pointing to specific directions in the sky and taking pictures every 30 seconds. So that itself is a time series. And every point in the time series, we call that visit. So we want to record the metadata about those visits in InfluxDB. That time series is going to be 10 years long, with about 1000 points every night. It's actually not too much data compared to the other problems. It's really just the different time scale. So yeah, we have plans on continuing using InfluxDB and finding new applications in the project. >> Yeah and the speed with which you can actually get high quality images. Angelo, my understanding is, you use InfluxDB, as you said, you're monitoring the telescope hardware and the software. And just say, some of the scientific data as well. The telescope at the Rubin Observatory is like, no pun intended, I guess, the star of the show. And I believe, I read that it's going to be the first of the next gen telescopes to come online. It's got this massive field of view, like three orders of magnitude times the Hubble's widest camera view, which is amazing. That's like 40 moons in an image, and amazingly fast as well. What else can you tell us about the telescope? >> Yeah, so it's really a challenging project, from the point of view of engineering. This telescope, it has to move really fast. And it also has to carry the primary mirror, which is an eight meter piece of glass, it's very heavy. And it has to carry a camera, which is about the size of a small car. And this whole structure weighs about 300 pounds. For that to work, the telescope needs to be very compact and stiff. And one thing that's amazing about its design is that the telescope, this 300 tons structure, it sits on a tiny film of oil, which has the diameter of human hair, in that brings an almost zero friction interface. In fact, a few people can move this enormous structure with only their hands. As you said, another aspect that makes this telescope unique is the optical design. It's a wide field telescope. So each image has, in diameter, the size of about seven full moons. And with that we can map the entire sky in only three days. And of course, during operations, everything's controlled by software, and it's automatic. There's a very complex piece of software called the scheduler, which is responsible for moving the telescope and the camera. Which will record the 15 terabytes of data every night. >> And Angelo, all this data lands in InfluxDB, correct? And what are you doing with all that data? >> Yeah, actually not. So we're using InfluxDB to record engineering data and metadata about the observations, like telemetry events and the commands from the telescope. That's a much smaller data set compared to the images. But it is still challenging because you have some high frequency data that the system needs to keep up and we need to store this data and have it around for the lifetime of the project. >> Hm. So at the mountain, we keep the data for 30 days. So the observers, they use Influx and InfluxDB instance, running there to analyze the data. But we also replicate the data to another instance running at the US data facility, where we have more computational resources and so more people can look at the data without interfering with the observations. Yeah, I have to say that InfluxDB has been really instrumental for us, and especially at this phase of the project where we are testing and integrating the different pieces of hardware. And it's not just the database, right. It's the whole platform. So I like to give this example, when we are doing this kind of task, it's hard to know in advance which dashboards and visualizations you're going to need, right. So what you really need is a data exploration tool. And with tools like chronograph, for example, having the ability to query and create dashboards on the fly was really a game changer for us. So astronomers, they typically are not software engineers, but they are the ones that know better than anyone, what needs to be monitored. And so they use chronograph and they can create the dashboards and the visualizations that they need. >> Got it. Thank you. Okay, Caleb, let's bring you back in. Tell us more about, you got these dishwasher size satellites are kind of using a multi tenant model. I think it's genius. But tell us about the satellites themselves. >> Yeah, absolutely. So we have in space, some satellites already. That, as you said, are like dishwasher, mini fridge kind of size. And we're working on a bunch more that are a variety of sizes from shoe box to I guess, a few times larger than what we have today. And it is, we do shoot to have, effectively something like a multi tenant model where we will buy a bus off the shelf, the bus is, what you can kind of think of as the core piece of the satellite, almost like a motherboard or something. Where it's providing the power, it has the solar panels, it has some radios attached to it, it handles the altitude control, basically steers the spacecraft in orbit. And then we build, also in house, what we call our payload hub, which is has all any customer payloads attached, and our own kind of edge processing sort of capabilities built into it. And so we integrate that, we launch it, and those things, because they're in low Earth orbit, they're orbiting the Earth every 90 minutes. That's seven kilometers per second, which is several times faster than a speeding bullet. So we've got, we have one of the unique challenges of operating spacecraft in lower Earth orbit is that generally you can't talk to them all the time. So we're managing these things through very brief windows of time. Where we get to talk to them through our ground sites, either in Antarctica or in the North Pole region. So we'll see them for 10 minutes, and then we won't see them for the next 90 minutes as they zip around the Earth collecting data. So one of the challenges that exists for a company like ours is, that's a lot of, you have to be able to make real time decisions operationally, in those short windows that can sometimes be critical to the health and safety of the spacecraft. And it could be possible that we put ourselves into a low power state in the previous orbit or something potentially dangerous to the satellite can occur. And so as an operator, you need to very quickly process that data coming in. And not just the the live data, but also the massive amounts of data that were collected in, what we call the back orbit, which is the time that we couldn't see the spacecraft. >> We got it. So talk more about how you use InfluxDB to make sense of this data from all those tech that you're launching into space. >> Yeah, so we basically, previously we started off, when I joined the company, storing all of that, as Angelo did, in a regular relational database. And we found that it was so slow, and the size of our data would balloon over the course of a couple of days to the point where we weren't able to even store all of the data that we were getting. So we migrated to InfluxDB to store our time series telemetry from the spacecraft. So that thing's like power level voltage, currents counts, whatever metadata we need to monitor about the spacecraft, we now store that in InfluxDB. And that has, you know, now we can actually easily store the entire volume of data for the mission life so far, without having to worry about the size bloating to an unmanageable amount. And we can also seamlessly query large chunks of data, like if I need to see, for example, as an operator, I might want to see how my battery state of charge is evolving over the course of the year, I can have a plot in an Influx that loads that in a fraction of a second for a year's worth of data, because it does, you know, intelligent. I can intelligently group the data by citing time interval. So it's been extremely powerful for us to access the data. And as time has gone on, we've gradually migrated more and more of our operating data into Influx. So not only do we store the basic telemetry about the bus and our payload hub, but we're also storing data for our customers, that our customers are generating on board about things like you know, one example of a customer that's doing something pretty cool. They have a computer on our satellite, which they can reprogram themselves to do some AI enabled edge compute type capability in space. And so they're sending us some metrics about the status of their workloads, in addition to the basics, like the temperature of their payload, their computer or whatever else. And we're delivering that data to them through Influx in a Grafana dashboard that they can plot where they can see, not only has this pipeline succeeded or failed, but also where was the spacecraft when this occurred? What was the voltage being supplied to their payload? Whatever they need to see, it's all right there for them. Because we're aggregating all that data in InfluxDB. >> That's awesome. You're measuring everything. Let's talk a little bit about, we throw this term around a lot, data driven. A lot of companies say, Oh, yes, we're data driven. But you guys really are. I mean, you got data at the core. Caleb, what does that what does that mean to you? >> Yeah, so you know, I think, the clearest example of when I saw this, be like totally game changing is, what I mentioned before it, at Astra, were our engineers feedback loop went from a lot of, kind of slow researching, digging into the data to like an instant, instantaneous, almost, Seeing the data, making decisions based on it immediately, rather than having to wait for some processing. And that's something that I've also seen echoed in my current role. But to give another practical example, as I said, we have a huge amount of data that comes down every orbit, and we need to be able to ingest all that data almost instantaneously and provide it to the operator in near real time. About a second worth of latency is all that's acceptable for us to react to. To see what is coming down from the spacecraft and building that pipeline is challenging, from a software engineering standpoint. Our primary language is Python, which isn't necessarily that fast. So what we've done is started, in the in the goal being data driven, is publish metrics on individual, how individual pieces of our data processing pipeline, are performing into Influx as well. And we do that in production as well as in dev. So we have kind of a production monitoring flow. And what that has done is, allow us to make intelligent decisions on our software development roadmap. Where it makes the most sense for us to focus our development efforts in terms of improving our software efficiency, just because we have that visibility into where the real problems are. At sometimes we've found ourselves, before we started doing this, kind of chasing rabbits that weren't necessarily the real root cause of issues that we were seeing. But now, that we're being a bit more data driven, there, we are being much more effective in where we're spending our resources and our time, which is especially critical to us as we scaled from supporting a couple of satellites to supporting many, many satellites at once. >> So you reduce those dead ends. Maybe Angela, you could talk about what sort of data driven means to you and your team? >> Yeah, I would say that having real time visibility, to the telemetry data and metrics is crucial for us. We need to make sure that the images that we collect, with the telescope have good quality and that they are within the specifications to meet our science goals. And so if they are not, we want to know that as soon as possible, and then start fixing problems. >> Yeah, so I mean, you think about these big science use cases, Angelo. They are extremely high precision, you have to have a lot of granularity, very tight tolerances. How does that play into your time series data strategy? >> Yeah, so one of the subsystems that produce the high volume and high rates is the structure that supports the telescope's primary mirror. So on that structure, we have hundreds of actuators that compensate the shape of the mirror for the formations. That's part of our active updated system. So that's really real time. And we have to record this high data rates, and we have requirements to handle data that are a few 100 hertz. So we can easily configure our database with milliseconds precision, that's for telemetry data. But for events, sometimes we have events that are very close to each other and then we need to configure database with higher precision. >> um hm For example, micro seconds. >> Yeah, so Caleb, what are your event intervals like? >> So I would say that, as of today on the spacecraft, the event, the level of timing that we deal with probably tops out at about 20 hertz, 20 measurements per second on things like our gyroscopes. But I think the core point here of the ability to have high precision data is extremely important for these kinds of scientific applications. And I'll give you an example, from when I worked on the rockets at Astra. There, our baseline data rate that we would ingest data during a test is 500 hertz, so 500 samples per second. And in some cases, we would actually need to ingest much higher rate data. Even up to like 1.5 kilohertz. So extremely, extremely high precision data there, where timing really matters a lot. And, I can, one of the really powerful things about Influx is the fact that it can handle this, that's one of the reasons we chose it. Because there's times when we're looking at the results of firing, where you're zooming in. I've talked earlier about how on my current job, we often zoom out to look at a year's worth of data. You're zooming in, to where your screen is preoccupied by a tiny fraction of a second. And you need to see, same thing, as Angelo just said, not just the actual telemetry, which is coming in at a high rate, but the events that are coming out of our controllers. So that can be something like, hey, I opened this valve at exactly this time. And that goes, we want to have that at micro or even nanosecond precision, so that we know, okay, we saw a spike in chamber pressure at this exact moment, was that before or after this valve open? That kind of visibility is critical in these kinds of scientific applications and absolutely game changing, to be able to see that in near real time. And with a really easy way for engineers to be able to visualize this data themselves without having to wait for us software engineers to go build it for them. >> Can the scientists do self serve? Or do you have to design and build all the analytics and queries for scientists? >> I think that's absolutely from my perspective, that's absolutely one of the best things about Influx, and what I've seen be game changing is that, generally, I'd say anyone can learn to use Influx. And honestly, most of our users might not even know they're using Influx. Because the interface that we expose to them is Grafana, which is generic graphing, open source graphing library that is very similar to Influx zone chronograph. >> Sure. >> And what it does is, it provides this, almost, it's a very intuitive UI for building your query. So you choose a measurement, and it shows a drop down of available measurements, and then you choose the particular field you want to look at. And again, that's a drop down. So it's really easy for our users to discover it. And there's kind of point and click options for doing math, aggregations. You can even do like, perfect kind of predictions all within Grafana. The Grafana user interface, which is really just a wrapper around the API's and functionality that Influx provides. So yes, absolutely, that's been the most powerful thing about it, is that it gets us out of the way, us software engineers, who may not know quite as much as the scientists and engineers that are closer to the interesting math. And they build these crazy dashboards that I'm just like, wow, I had no idea you could do that. I had no idea that, that is something that you would want to see. And absolutely, that's the most empowering piece. >> Yeah, putting data in the hands of those who have the context, the domain experts is key. Angelo is it the same situation for you? Is it self serve? >> Yeah, correct. As I mentioned before, we have the astronomers making their own dashboards, because they know exactly what they need to visualize. And I have an example just from last week. We had an engineer at the observatory that was building a dashboard to monitor the cooling system of the entire building. And he was familiar with InfluxQL, which was the primarily query language in version one of InfluxDB. And he had, that was really a challenge because he had all the data spread at multiple InfluxDB measurements. And he was like doing one query for each measurement and was not able to produce what he needed. And then, but that's the perfect use case for Flux, which is the new data scripting language that Influx data developed and introduced as the main language in version two. And so with Flux, he was able to combine data from multiple measurements and summarize this data in a nice table. So yeah, having more flexible and powerful language, also allows you to make better a visualization. >> So Angelo, where would you be without time series database, that technology generally, may be specifically InfluxDB, as one of the leading platforms. Would you be able to do this? >> Yeah, it's hard to imagine, doing what we are doing without InfluxDB. And I don't know, perhaps it would be just a matter of time to rediscover InfluxDB. >> Yeah. How about you Caleb? >> Yeah, I mean, it's all about using the right tool for the job. I think for us, when I joined the company, we weren't using InfluxDB and we were dealing with serious issues of the database growing to a an incredible size, extremely quickly. And being unable to, like even querying short periods of data, was taking on the order of seconds, which is just not possible for operations. So time series database is, if you're dealing with large volumes of time series data, Time series database is the right tool for the job and Influx is a great one for it. So, yeah, it's absolutely required to use for this kind of data, there is not really any other option. >> Guys, this has been really informative. It's pretty exciting to see, how the edge is mountain tops, lower Earth orbits. Space is the ultimate edge. Isn't it. I wonder if you could two questions to wrap here. What comes next for you guys? And is there something that you're really excited about? That you're working on. Caleb, may be you could go first and than Angelo you could bring us home. >> Yeah absolutely, So basically, what's next for Loft Orbital is more, more satellites a greater push towards infrastructure and really making, our mission is to make space simple for our customers and for everyone. And we're scaling the company like crazy now, making that happen. It's extremely exciting and extremely exciting time to be in this company and to be in this industry as a whole. Because there are so many interesting applications out there. So many cool ways of leveraging space that people are taking advantage of and with companies like SpaceX, now rapidly lowering cost of launch. It's just a really exciting place to be in. And we're launching more satellites. We're scaling up for some constellations and our ground system has to be improved to match. So there is a lot of improvements that we are working on to really scale up our control systems to be best in class and make it capable of handling such large workloads. So, yeah. What's next for us is just really 10X ing what we are doing. And that's extremely exciting. >> And anything else you are excited about? Maybe something personal? Maybe, you know, the titbit you want to share. Are you guys hiring? >> We're absolutely hiring. So, we've positions all over the company. So we need software engineers. We need people who do more aerospace specific stuff. So absolutely, I'd encourage anyone to check out the Loft Orbital website, if this is at all interesting. Personal wise, I don't have any interesting personal things that are data related. But my current hobby is sea kayaking, so I'm working on becoming a sea kayaking instructor. So if anyone likes to go sea kayaking out in the San Francisco Bay area, hopefully I'll see you out there. >> Love it. All right, Angelo, bring us home. >> Yeah. So what's next for us is, we're getting this telescope working and collecting data and when that's happened, it's going to be just a delish of data coming out of this camera. And handling all that data, is going to be a really challenging. Yeah, I wonder I might not be here for that I'm looking for it, like for next year we have an important milestone, which is our commissioning camera, which is a simplified version of the full camera, is going to be on sky and so most of the system has to be working by then. >> Any cool hobbies that you are working on or any side project? >> Yeah, actually, during the pandemic I started gardening. And I live here in Two Sun, Arizona. It gets really challenging during the summer because of the lack of water, right. And so, we have an automatic irrigation system at the farm and I'm trying to develop a small system to monitor the irrigation and make sure that our plants have enough water to survive. >> Nice. All right guys, with that we're going to end it. Thank you so much. Really fascinating and thanks to InfluxDB for making this possible. Really ground breaking stuff, enabling value at the edge, in the cloud and of course beyond, at the space. Really transformational work, that you guys are doing. So congratulations and I really appreciate the broader community. I can't wait to see what comes next from this entire eco system. Now in the moment, I'll be back to wrap up. This is Dave Vallante. And you are watching The cube, the leader in high tech enterprise coverage. (upbeat music)

>> Well, hello everybody, John Walls here on theCUBE and continuing our coverage. So splunk.com for 21, you know, we talk about big data these days, you realize the importance of speed, right? We all get that, but certainly Formula One Racing understands speed and big data, a really neat marriage there. And with us to talk about that is James Hodge, who was the global vice president and chief strategy officer international at Splunk. James, good to see it today. Thanks for joining us here on theCUBE. >> Thank you, John. Thank you for having me and yeah, the speed of McLaren. Like I'm, I'm all for it today. >> Absolutely. And I find it interesting too, that, that you were telling me before we started the interview that you've been in Splunk going on nine years now. And you remember being at splunk.com, you know, back in the past other years and watching theCUBE and here you are! you made it. >> I know, I think it's incredible. I love watching you guys every single year and kind of the talk that guests. And then more importantly, like it reminds me of conf for every time we see theCUBE, no matter where you are, it reminds me of like this magical week there's dot com for us. >> Well, excellent. I'm glad that we could be a part of it at once again and glad you're a part of it here on theCUBE. Let's talk about McLaren now and the partnership, obviously on the racing side and the e-sports side, which is certainly growing in popularity and in demand. So just first off characterize for our audience, that relationship between Splunk and McLaren. >> Well, so we started the relationship almost two years ago. And for us it was McLaren as a brand. If you think about where they were, they recently, I think it's September a Monza. They got a victory P1 and P2. It was over 3200 days since their last victory. So that's a long time to wait. I think of that. There's 3000 days of continual business transformation, trying to get them back up to the grid. And what we found was that ethos, the drive to digital the, the way they're completely changing things, bringing in kind of fluid dynamics, getting people behind the common purpose that really seem to fit the Splunk culture, what we're trying to do and putting data at the heart of things. So kind of Formula One and McLaren, it felt a really natural place to be. And we haven't really looked back since we started at that partnership. It's been a really exciting last kind of 18 months, two years. >> Well, talk a little bit about, about the application here a little bit in terms of data cars, the, the Formula One cars, the F1 cars, they've got hundreds of sensors on them. They're getting, you know, hundreds of thousands or a hundred thousand data points almost instantly, right? I mean, there's this constant processing. So what are those inputs basically? And then how has McLaren putting them to use, and then ultimately, how is Splunk delivering on that from McLaren? >> So I learned quite a lot, you know, I'm, I'm, I been a childhood Formula One fan, and I've learned so much more about F1 over the last kind of couple of years. So it actually starts with the car going out on the track, but anyone that works in the IT function, the car can not go out on track and less monitoring from the car actually is being received by the garage. It's seen as mission critical safety critical. So IT, when you see a car out and you see the race engineer, but that thumbs up the mechanical, the thumbs up IT, get their vote and get to put the thumbs up before the car goes out on track there around about 300 sensors on the car in practice. And there were two sites that run about 120 on race day that gets streamed on a two by two megabits per second, back to the FIA, the regulating body, and then gets streams to the, the garage where they have a 32 unit rack near two of them that have all of their it equipment take that data. They then stream it over the internet over the cloud, back to the technology center in working where 32 race engineers sit in calm conditions to be able to go and start to make decisions on when the car should pit what their strategy should be like to then relate that back to the track side. So you think about that data journey alone, that is way more complicated and what you see on TV, you know, the, the race energy on the pit wall and the driver going around at 300 kilometers an hour. When we look at what Splunk is doing is making sure that is resilient. You know, is the data coming off the car? Is it actually starting to hit the garage when it hits that rack into the garage, other than streaming that back with the right latency back to the working technology center, they're making sure that all of the support decision-making tools there are available, and that's just what we do for them on race weekend. And I'll give you one kind of the more facts about the car. So you start the beginning of the season, they launched the car. The 80% of that car will be different by the end of the season. And so they're in a continual state of development, like constantly developing to do that. So they're moving much more to things like computational fluid dynamics applications before the move to wind tunnel that relies on digital infrastructure to be able to go and accelerate that journey and be able to go make those assumptions. That's a Splunk is becoming the kind of underpinning of to making sure those mission critical applications and systems are online. And that's kind of just scratching the surface of kind of the journey with McLaren. >> Yeah. So, so what would be an example then maybe on race day, what's a stake race day of an input that comes in and then mission control, which I find fascinating, right? You've got 32 different individuals processing this input and then feeding their, their insights back. Right. And so adjustments are being made on the fly very much all data-driven what would be an example of, of an actual application of some information that came in that was quickly, you know, recorded, noted, and then acted upon that then resulted in an improved performance? >> Well, the most important one is pit stop strategy. It can be very difficult to overtake on track. So starting to look at when other teams go into the pit lane and when they come out of the, the pit lane is incredibly important because it gives you a choice. Do you stay also in your current set of tires and hope to kind of get through that team and kind of overtake them, or do you start to go into the pits and get your fresh sets of tires to try and take a different strategy? There are three people in mission control that have full authority to go and make a Pit lane call. And I think like the thing that really resonated for me from learning about McLaren, the technology is amazing, but it's the organizational constructs on how they turn data into an action is really important. People with the right knowledge and access to the data, have the authority to make a call. It's not the team principle, it's not the person on the pit wall is the person with the most amount of knowledge is authorized and kind of, it's an open kind of forum to go and make those decisions. If you see something wrong, you are just as likely to be able to put your hand up and say, something's wrong here. This is my, my decision than anyone else. And so when we think about all these organizations that are trying to transform the business, we can learn a lot from Formula One on how we delegate authority and just think of like technology and data as the beginning of that journey. It's the people in process that F1 is so well. >> We're talking a lot about racing, but of course, McLaren is also getting involved in e-sports. And so people like you like me, we can have that simulated experience to gaming. And I know that Splunk has, is migrating with McLaren in that regard. Right. You know, you're partnering up. So maybe if you could share a little bit more about that, about how you're teaming up with McLaren on the e-sports side, which I'm sure anybody watching this realizes there's a, quite a big market opportunity there right now. >> It's a huge market opportunity is we got McLaren racing has, you know, Formula One, IndyCar and now extreme E and then they have the other branch, which is e-sports so gaming. And one of the things that, you know, you look at gaming, you know, we were talking earlier about Ted Lasso and, you know, the go to the amazing game of football or soccer, depending on kind of what side of the Atlantic you're on. I can go and play something like FIFA, you know, the football game. I can be amazing at that. I have in reality, you know, in real life I have two left feet. I am never going to be good at football however, what we find with e-sports is it makes gaming and racing accessible. I can go and drive the same circuits as Lando Norris and Daniel Ricardo, and I can improve. And I can learn like use data to start to discover different ways. And it's an incredibly expanding exploding industry. And what McLaren have done is they've said, actually, we're going to make a professional racing team, an e-sports team called the McLaren Shadow team. They have this huge competition called the Logitech KeyShot challenge. And when we looked at that, we sort of lost the similarities in what we're trying to achieve. We are quite often starting to merge the physical world and the digital world with our customers. And this was an amazing opportunity to start to do that with the McLaren team. >> So you're creating this really dynamic racing experience, right? That, that, that gives people like me, or like our viewers, the opportunity to get even a better feel for, for the decision-making and the responsiveness of the cars and all that. So again, data, where does that come into play there? Now, What, what kind of inputs are you getting from me as a driver then as an amateur driver? And, and how has that then I guess, how does it express in the game or expressed in, in terms of what's ahead of me to come in a game? >> So actually there are more data points that come out of the F1 2021 Codemasters game than there are in Formula One car, you get a constant stream. So the, the game will actually stream out real telemetry. So I can actually tell your tire pressures from all of your tires. I can see the lateral G-Force longitudinal. G-Force more importantly for probably amateur drivers like you and I, we can see is the tire on asphalt, or is it maybe on graphs? We can actually look at your exact position on track, how much accelerator, you know, steering lock. So we can see everything about that. And that gets pumped out in real time, up to 60 Hertz. So a phenomenal amount of information, what we, when we started the relationship with McLaren, Formula One super excited or about to go racing. And then at Melbourne, there's that iconic moment where one of the McLaren team tested positive and they withdrew from the race. And what we found was, you know, COVID was starting and the Formula One season was put on hold. The FIA created this season and called i can't remember the exact name of it, but basically a replica e-sports gaming F1 series. We're using the game. Some of the real drivers like Lando, heavy gamer was playing in the game and they'd run that the same as race weekends. They brought celebrity drivers in there. And I think my most surreal zoom call I ever was on was with Lando Norris and Pierre Patrick Aubameyang, who was who's the arsenal football captain, who was the guest driver in the series to drive around Monaco and Randy, the head of race strategy as McLaren, trying to coach him on how to go drive the car, what we ended up with data telemetry coming from Splunk. And so Randy could look out here when he pressing the accelerator and the brake pedal. And what was really interesting was Lando was watching how he was entering corners on the video feed and intuitively kind of coming to the same conclusions as Randy. So kind of, you could see that race to intuition versus the real stats, and it was just incredible experience. And it really shows you, you know, racing, you've got that blurring of the physical and the virtual that it's going to be bigger and bigger and bigger. >> So to hear it here, as I understand what you were just saying now, the e-sports racing team actually has more data to adjust its performance and to modify its behaviors, then the real racing team does. Yep. >> Yeah, it completely does. So what we want to be able to do is turn that into action. So how do you do the right car setup? How do you go and do the right practice laps actually have really good practice driver selection. And I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of what really could be done. And the amazing part about this is now think of it more like a digital twin, what we learn on e-sports we can actually say we've learned something really interesting here, and then maybe a low, you know, if we get something wrong, it may be doesn't matter quite as much as maybe getting an analytics wrong on race weekend. >> Right. >> So we can actually start to look and improve through digital and then start to move that support. That's over to kind of race weekend analytics and supporting the team. >> If I could, you know, maybe pun intended here, shift gears a little bit before we run out of time. I mean, you're, you're involved on the business side, you know, you've got, you know, you're in the middle east Africa, right? You've got, you know, quite an international portfolio on your plate. Now let's talk about just some of the data trends there for our viewers here in the U S who maybe aren't as familiar with what's going on overseas, just in terms of, especially post COVID, you know, what, what concerns there are, or, or what direction you're trying to get your clients to, to be taking in terms of getting back to work in terms of, you know, looking at their workforce opportunities and strengths and all those kinds of things. >> I think we've seen a massive shift. I think we've seen that people it's not good enough just to be storing data its how do you go and utilize that data to go and drive your business forwards I think a couple of key terms we're going to see more and more over the next few years is operational resilience and business agility. And I'd make the assertion that operational resilience is the foundation for the business agility. And we can dive into that in a second, but what we're seeing take the Netherlands. For example, we run a survey last year and we found that 87% of the respondents had created new functions to do with data machine learning and AI, as all they're trying to do is go and get more timely data to front line staff to go. And next that the transformation, because what we've really seen through COVID is everything is possible to be digitized and we can experiment and get to market faster. And I think we've just seen in European markets, definitely in Asia Pacific is that the kind of brand loyalty is potentially waning, but what's the kind of loyalty is just to an experience, you know, take a ride hailing app. You know, I get to an airport, I try one ride hailing app. It tells me it's going to be 20 minutes before a taxi arrives. I'm going to go straight to the next app to go and stare. They can do it faster. I want the experience. I don't necessarily want the brand. And we're find that the digital experience by putting data, the forefront of that is really accelerating and actually really encouraging, you know, France, Germany are actually ahead of UK. Let's look, listen, their attitudes and adoption to data. And for our American audience and America, America is more likely, I think it's 72% more likely to have a chief innovation officer than the rest of the world. I think I'm about 64% in EMEA. So America, you are still slightly ahead of us in terms of kind of bringing some of that innovation that. >> I imagine that gap is going to be shrinking though I would think. >> It is massively shrinking. >> So before we, we, we, we are just a little tight on time, but I want to hear about operational resilience and, and just your, your thought that definition, you know, define that for me a little bit, you know, put a little more meat on that bone, if you would, and talk about why, you know, what that is in, in your thinking today and then why that is so important. >> So I think inputting in, in racing, you know, operational resilience is being able to send some response to what is happening around you with people processing technology, to be able to baseline what your processes are and the services you're providing, and be able to understand when something is not performing as it should be, what we're seeing. Things like European Union, in financial services, or at the digital operational resilience act is starting to mandate that businesses have to be operational in resilient service, monitoring fraud, cyber security, and customer experience. And what we see is really operational resilience is the amount of change that can be absorbed before opportunities become risk. So having a stable foundation of operational resilience allows me to become a more agile business because I know my foundation and people can then move and adjust quickly because I have the awareness of my environment and I have the ability to appropriately react to my environment because I've thought about becoming a resilient business with my digital infrastructure is a theme. I think we're going to see in supply chain coming very soon and across all other industries, as we realize digital is our business. Nowadays. >> What's an exciting world. Isn't it, James? That you're, that you're working in right now. >> Oh, I, I love it. You know, you said, you know, eight and an eight and a half years, nine years at Splunk, I'm still smiling. You know, it is like being at the forefront of this diesel wave and being able to help people make action from that. It's an incredible place to be. I, is liberating and yeah, I can't even begin to imagine what's, you know, the opportunities are over the next few years as the world continually evolves. >> Well, every day is a school day, right? >> It is my favorite phrase >> I knew that. >> And it is, James Hodge. Thanks for joining us on theCUBE. Glad to have you on finally, after being on the other side of the camera, it's great to have you on this side. So thanks for making that transition for us. >> Thank you, John. You bet James Hodge joining us here on the cube coverage of splunk.com 21, talking about McLaren racing team speed and Splunk.

>>From around the globe, it's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. >>Oh, welcome back to the cube. As we continue our coverage of AWS reinvent 2020, you know, I know you're familiar with Moneyball, the movie, Brad Pitt, starting as Billy Bean, the Oakland A's general manager, where the A's were all over data, right. With the Billy Bean approach, it was a very, uh, data driven approach to building his team and a very successful team. Well, AWS is taking that to an extraordinary level and with us to talk about that as Matt Hearst, who was the head of global sports marketing and communications at AWS and Matt, thanks for joining us here on the queue. >>John is my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. You >>Bet. Um, now we've already heard from a couple of folks, NFL folks, uh, at re-invent, uh, about the virtual draft. Um, but for those of our viewers who maybe aren't up to speed on that, or having a chance to see, uh, what those folks had to say, uh, let's just talk about that as an opener, um, about your involvement with the NFL and particularly with, with the draft and, and what that announcement was all about. >>Sure. We, we saw, we've seen a great evolution with our work with the NFL over the past few years. And you mentioned during the infrastructure keynote where Michelle McKenna who's, the CIO for the NFL talks about how they were able to stage the 2020 virtual draft, which was the NFL is much most watched ever, uh, you know, over 55 million viewers over three days and how they were unable to do it without the help and the power of AWS, you know, utilizing AWS is reliability, scalability, security, and network connectivity, where they were able to manage thousands of live feeds to flow to the internet and go to ESPN, to airline. Um, but additionally, Jennifer LinkedIn, who's the SVP of player health and innovation at the NFL spoke during the machine learning keynote during reinvent. And she talked about how we're working with the NFL, uh, to co-develop the digital athlete, which is a computer simulation model of a football player that can replicate infinite scenarios in a game environment to help better foster and understanding of how to treat and rehabilitate injuries in the short term and in the long-term in the future, ultimately prevent, prevent and predict injuries. >>And they're using machine learning to be able to do that. So there's, those are just a couple of examples of, uh, what the NFL talked about during re-invent at a couple of keynotes, but we've seen this work with the NFL really evolve over the past few years, you know, starting with next gen stats. Those are the advanced statistics that, uh, brings a new level of entertainment to football fans. And what we really like to do, uh, with the NFL is to excite, educate, and innovate. And those stats really bring fans closer to the game to allow the broadcasters to go a little bit deeper, to educate the fans better. And we've seen some of those come to life through some of our ads, uh, featuring Deshaun Watson, Christian McCaffrey, um, these visually compelling statistics that, that come to life on screen. Um, and it's not just the NFL. AWS is doing this with some of the top sports leagues around the world, you know, powering F1 insights, Buddhist league, and match facts, six nations, rugby match stats, all of which utilize AWS technology to uncover advanced stats and really help educate and engage fans around the world in the sports that they love. >>Let's talk about that engagement with your different partners then, because you just touched on it. This is a wide array of avenues that you're exploring. You're in football, you're in soccer, you're in sailing, uh, you're uh, racing formula one and NASCAR, for example, all very different animals, right? In terms of their statistics and their data and of their fan interest, what fans ultimately want. So, um, maybe on a holistic basis first, how are you, uh, kind of filtering through your partner's needs and their fans needs and your capabilities and providing that kind of merger of capabilities with desires >>Sports, uh, for AWS and for Amazon are no different than any other industry. And we work backwards from the customer and what their needs are. You know, when we look at the sports partners and customers that we work with and why they're looking to AWS to help innovate and transform their sports, it's really the innovative technologies like machine learning, artificial intelligence, high performance computing, internet of things, for example, that are really transforming the sports world and some of the best teams and leagues that we've talked about, that you touched on, you know, formula one, NASCAR, NFL, Buena, Sligo, six nations, rugby, and so on and so forth are using AWS to really improve the athlete and the team performance transform how fans view and engage with sports and deliver these real-time advanced statistics to give fans, uh, more of that excitement that we're talking about. >>Let me give you a couple of examples on some of these innovative technologies that our customers are using. So the Seattle Seahawks, I built a data Lake on AWS to use it for talent, evaluation and acquisition to improve player health and recovery times, and also for their game planning. And another example is, you know, formula and we talk about the F1 insights, those advanced statistics, but they're also using AWS high-performance computing that helped develop the next generation race car, which will be introduced in the 2022 season. And by using AWS F1 was able to reduce the average time to run simulations by 70% to improve the car's aerodynamics, reducing the downforce loss and create more wheel to wheel racing, to bring about more excitement on the track. And a third example, similar to, uh, F1 using HPC is any of those team UK. So they compete in the America's cup, which is the oldest trophy in international sports. And endosteum UK is using an HPC environment running on Amazon, easy to spot instances to design its boat for the upcoming competition. And they're depending on this computational power on AWS needing 2000 to 3000 simulations to design the dimension of just a single boat. Um, and so the power of the cloud and the power of the AWS innovative technologies are really helping, uh, these teams and leagues and sports organizations around the world transform their sport. >>Well, let's go back. Uh, you mentioned the Seahawks, um, just as, uh, an example of maybe, uh, the kind of insights that that you're providing. Uh, let's pretend I'm there, there's an outstanding running back and his name's Matt Hearst and, uh, and he's at a, you know, a college let's just pretend in California someplace. Um, what kind of inputs, uh, are you now helping them? Uh, and what kind of insights are you trying to, are you helping them glean from those inputs that maybe they didn't have before? And how are they actually applying that then in terms of their player acquisition and thinking about draft, right player development, deciding whether Matt Hertz is a good fit for them, maybe John Wallace is a good fit for them. Um, but what are the kinds of, of, uh, what's that process look like? >>So the way that the Seahawks have built the data Lake, they built it on AWFs to really, as you talk about this talent, evaluation and acquisition, to understand how a player, you know, for example, a John Walls could fit into their scheme, you know, that, that taking this data and putting it in the data Lake and figuring out how it fits into their schemes is really important because you could find out that maybe you played, uh, two different positions in high school or college, and then that could transform into, into the schematics that they're running. Um, and try to find, I don't want to say a diamond in the rough, but maybe somebody that could fit better into their scheme than, uh, maybe the analysts or others could figure out. And that's all based on the power of data that they're using, not only for the talent evaluation and acquisition, but for game planning as well. >>And so the Seahawks building that data Lake is just one of those examples. Um, you know, when, when you talk about a player, health and safety, as well, just using the NFL as the example, too, with that digital athlete, working with them to co-develop that for that composite NFL player, um, where they're able to run those infinite scenarios to ultimately predict and prevent injury and using Amazon SageMaker and AWS machine learning to do so, it's super important, obviously with the Seahawks, for the future of that organization and the success that they, that they see and continue to see, and also for the future of football with the NFL, >>You know, um, Roger Goodell talks about innovation in the national football league. We hear other commissioners talking about the same thing. It's kind of a very popular buzz word right now is, is leagues look to, uh, ways to broaden their, their technological footprint in innovative ways. Again, popular to say, how exactly though, do you see AWS role in that with the national football league, for example, again, or maybe any other league in terms of inspiring innovation and getting them to perhaps look at things differently through different prisms than they might have before? >>I think, again, it's, it's working backwards from the customer and understanding their needs, right? We couldn't have predicted at the beginning of 2020, uh, that, you know, the NFL draft will be virtual. And so working closely with the NFL, how do we bring that to life? How do we make that successful, um, you know, working backwards from the NFL saying, Hey, we'd love to utilize your technology to improve Clare health and safety. How are we able to do that? Right. And using machine learning to do so. So the pace of innovation, these innovative technologies are very important, not only for us, but also for these, uh, leagues and teams that we work with, you know, using F1 is another example. Um, we talked about HPC and how they were able to, uh, run these simulations in the cloud to improve, uh, the race car and redesign the race car for the upcoming seasons. >>But, uh, F1 is also using Amazon SageMaker, um, to develop new F1 insights, to bring fans closer to the action on the track, and really understand through technology, these split-second decisions that these drivers are taking in every lap, every turn, when to pit, when not to pit things of that nature and using the power of the cloud and machine learning to really bring that to life. And one example of that, that we introduced this year with, with F1 was, um, the fastest driver insight and working F1, worked with the Amazon machine learning solutions lab to bring that to life and use a data-driven approach to determine the fastest driver, uh, over the last 40 years, relying on the years of historical data that they store in S3 and the ML algorithms that, that built between AWS and F1 data scientists to produce this result. So John, you and I could sit here and argue, you know, like, like two guys that really love F1 and say, I think Michael Schumacher is the fastest drivers. It's Lewis, Hamilton. Who's great. Well, it turned out it was a arts incentive, you know, and Schumacher was second. And, um, Hamilton's third and it's the power of this data and the technology that brings this to life. So we could still have a fun argument as fans around this, but we actually have a data-driven results through that to say, Hey, this is actually how it, how it ranked based on how everything works. >>You know, this being such a strange year, right? With COVID, uh, being rampant and, and the major influence that it has been in every walk of global life, but certainly in the American sports. Um, how has that factored into, in terms of the kinds of services that you're looking to provide or to help your partners provide in order to increase that fan engagement? Because as you've pointed out, ultimately at the end of the day, it's, it's about the consumer, right? The fan, and giving them info, they need at the time they want it, that they find useful. Um, but has this year been, um, put a different point on that for you? Just because so many eyeballs have been on the screen and not necessarily in person >>Yeah. T 20, 20 as, you know, a year, unlike any other, um, you know, in our lifetimes and hopefully going forward, you know, it's, it's not like that. Um, but we're able to understand that we can still bring fans closer to the sports that they love and working with, uh, these leagues, you know, we talk about NFL draft, but with formula one, we, uh, in the month of may developed the F1 Pro-Am deep racer event that featured F1 driver, uh, Daniel Ricardo, and test driver TA Sianna Calderon in this deep racer league and deep racers, a one 18th scale, fully autonomous car, um, that uses reinforcement learning, learning a type of machine learning. And so we had actual F1 driver and test driver racing against developers from all over the world. And technology is really playing a role in that evolution of F1. Um, but also giving fans a chance to go head to head against the Daniel Ricardo, which I don't know that anyone else could ever say that. >>Yeah, I raced against an F1 driver for head to head, you know, and doing that in the month of may really brought forth, not only an appreciation, I think for the drivers that were involved on the machine learning and the technology involved, but also for the developers on these split second decisions, these drivers have to make through an event like that. You know, it was, it was great and well received. And the drivers had a lot of fun there. Um, you know, and that is the national basketball association. The NBA played in the bubble, uh, down in Orlando, Florida, and we work with second spectrum. They run on AWS. And second spectrum is the official optical provider of the NBA and they provide Clippers court vision. So, uh, it's a mobile live streaming experience for LA Clippers fans that uses artificial intelligence and machine learning to visualize data through on-screen graphic overlays. >>And second spectrum was able to rely on, uh, AWS is reliability, connectivity, scalability, and move all of their equipment to the bubble in Orlando and still produce a great experience for the fans, um, by reducing any latency tied to video and data processing, um, they needed that low latency to encode and compress the media to transfer an edit with the overlays in seconds without losing quality. And they were able to rely on AWS to do that. So a couple of examples that even though 2020 was, uh, was a little different than we all expected it to be, um, of how we worked closely with our sports partners to still deliver, uh, an exceptional fan experience. >>So, um, I mean, first off you have probably the coolest job at AWS. I think it's so, uh, congratulations. I mean, it's just, it's fascinating. What's on your want to do less than in terms of 20, 21 and beyond and about what you don't do now, or, or what you would like to do better down the road, any one area in particular that you're looking at, >>You know, our, our strategy in sports is no different than any other industry. We want to work backwards from our customers to help solve business problems through innovation. Um, and I know we've talked about the NFL a few times, but taking them for, for another example, with the NFL draft, improving player health and safety, working closely with them, we're able to help the NFL advance the game both on and off the field. And that's how we look at doing that with all of our sports partners and really helping them transform their sport, uh, through our innovative technologies. And we're doing this in a variety of ways, uh, with a bunch of engaging content that people can really enjoy with the sports that they love, whether it's, you know, quick explainer videos, um, that are short two minute or less videos explaining what these insights are, these advanced stats. >>So when you see them on the screening and say, Oh yeah, I understand what that is at a, at a conceptual level or having blog posts from a will, Carlin who, uh, has a long storied history in six nations and in rugby or Rob Smedley, along story history and F1 writing blog posts to give fans deeper perspective as subject matter experts, or even for those that want to go deeper under the hood. We've worked with our teams to take a deeper look@howsomeofthesecometolifedetailingthetechnologyjourneyoftheseadvancedstatsthroughsomedeepdiveblogsandallofthiscanbefoundataws.com slash sports. So a lot of great rich content for, uh, for people to dig into >>Great stuff, indeed. Um, congratulations to you and your team, because you really are enriching the fan experience, which I am. One of, you know, hundreds of millions are enjoying that. So thanks for that great work. And we wish you all the continued success down the road here in 2021 and beyond. Thanks, Matt. Thanks so much, Sean.

(upbeat music) >> Hi, and welcome to theCUBE, the leading source for insights into the world of technology and innovation. I'm your host Donald Klein, and today's topic is the market for autonomous vehicles and the ecosystem suppliers looking to tap into this brave new world of autonomous capabilities in our daily commute. To have this conversation I'm joined by Rudy Burger, managing partner at Woodside Capital. Rudy, welcome to the show. >> Thanks Don, it's great to be here. >> Great, so look, why don't we start off Rudy, why don't you tell us a little bit about Woodside Capital and your role there? >> Great, so I founded Woodside Capital about 20 years ago having started five different companies of my own, one of which I took public. We are a specialist M&A advisor. We work with so-called growth stage often venture-backed companies and help them find buyers that are usually much larger public companies. Our clients are usually US or European companies and we find buyers in the US, Europe, or Asia. >> Excellent, excellent, okay. And why don't you talk a little bit about your kind of specialty areas? >> So I focused my career, and certainly the work at Woodside Capital, on imaging technologies and as an enabling technology, and the products and markets that are enabled by imaging and increasingly computer vision. So nowadays that is autonomous vehicles, consumer technology, security surveillance, and digital health. So enabling technologies, the computer vision is the theme that binds those together. >> Okay, well, the thing that's on everybody's mind these days is autonomous vehicles, when are we going to get them? Very high profile for sure. Before the show we talking about the kind of two key ingredients to making this happen, the AI software which is kind of the brains of the operation and then also the sensors which enable all of the AI. So why don't we talk about the sensor world first, okay? Lot of discussion about there, so sort of does the brave new world of vehicles need lidar? Does it not need lidar? Are there other types of sensors coming along? What's your sense of that market and how it's looking for all of the different players in it? >> So, Don, I look at it from a sort of fairly basic standpoint. Humans have two very capable image sensors and a very powerful processor, and the degree to which the automotive manufacturers and so-called Robo-Taxi developers have decided it's necessary to sprinkle every sensor known to man, and I'm talking lidar, radar, ultrasound, thermal, and of course cameras, is to some extent a degree to which, you know, image sensors are not as good as our eyes today. Now, there are some areas in which we will probably always have technology as a help. For example, humans are not very good at seeing in the dark whereas a thermal technology can do that very well. But my overall belief is that it's never a good idea to bet against an incumbent technology, and in this case I'm talking about so-called CMOS image sensors which are the sensor that goes into pretty much every camera in the world now. It's never a good idea to bet against the incumbent technology being able to scale into a new market. Every time people have done that, they've been wrong. Back in the early days the debate was whether CMOS image sensors would ever be good enough to replace CCDs as the sensor technology, and of course now, you know, everything uses CMOS image sensors. In other markets there was a long period of time in which people were thinking that LCD panels would never be large enough to replace, you know, for television, for example, 50 inch and so forth. It was never going to happen, so we needed plasma TVs, we needed rear-projection TVs. But slowly but surely the incumbent technology, LCDs, expanded to that market. So my belief is that CMOS image sensors will evolve to a point at which they will replace the need for lidar in most applications. >> Interesting, so that's a very controversial statement, right? Because you've certainly seen a lot of emphasis on the development of new generation lidar capability. >> Over 100 lidar companies started over the last three, four years, and of course many of them will not be happy to hear me say that. There are two distinct markets and one is the so-called Robo-Taxi market, and the other is more of the consumer vehicle ADAS market, and I think we need to think about those separately because the economics behind both are very different. If you look at the Robo-Taxi market, those vehicles tend to be much more expensive and are relatively price-insensitive. So if they can improve safety a little bit by putting a lidar on there, you know, great, let's do it, multiple lidars because these vehicles will be in operation 24 by seven, and if each vehicle costs 200,000, $250,000, fine. When we talk about the mass market for automobiles, type of car that you and I might go down and buy, very different thing. And, you know, auto makers sweat the pennies, and so putting a one or $200 lidar in a vehicle, big decision. And to the extent that they can replace the need for that lidar with a much less expensive camera system, that's what they'll do. Bear in mind that Mobileye, which has been the biggest success story, acquired by Intel for $13.5 billion, second largest acquisition Intel ever made, they for the most part still run on one camera, forward-looking camera. That's it, no radar, no lidar, no thermal, one camera. So the clever use of image processing, computer vision, and one image sensor can do a great deal. >> Interesting, okay. Well, so I want to talk about the software in just a second, but just to kind of finish this point, so if you were advising a sensor company that's developing some next gen capabilities, whether lidar or other related technologies, is the point you're making here that there are certain segments of this industry which are going to be more attractive to your technology than others? >> Absolutely, yes. I mean, the first thing to recognize is that the automotive industry has never really been a particularly comfortable fit with the economics and timeline of venture capital. VCs need to invest and recoup and redeploy back to their LPs on an eight-year cycle. But the automotive industry moves quite slowly, perhaps Tesla are excepted, and what the first piece of advice I would give these companies is it's probably going to be three, four, five years before, even if you have the right technology, before that technology really starts generating any significant volume and revenue. So for many venture-backed companies, that's too long. So the first piece of advice is find pockets of revenue, right, beachheads if you will, where you can land your technology and start generating revenue before you get to the automotive market. And many of these lidar companies we just talked about are not going to last long enough to get to the automotive market because not only does the automotive market move slowly but the autonomous vehicle market keeps on getting pushed out to the right as the industry realizes that this is a big, hairy problem. And so I would say, what is it that your technology can do an order of magnitude better than any other technology? Focus on that and find some opportunities for revenue outside the automotive industry that will sustain the company on its way to the holy grail. >> Interesting, yeah, so find that alternative revenue source to get you to base camp, and then when the market's ready, climb that Everest to-- >> I've seen so many companies basically go out of business because they've set their sights on either the automotive market, and it's go for broke. We're not interested in, all these other things are distractions. You know, entrepreneurs don't have a plan B. Or this. We're going to get our technology into a smartphone, that's it. And there are possibly some other opportunities but it takes so long and it's so difficult to get your technology into a smartphone that they go out of business before they ever get to that point. >> Interesting, okay. So good advice for people looking to kind of apply their technology in this kind of a very difficult market, right, very complicated market. All right, well, then let's switch to the other side of it. So we were kind of talking about the key ingredients, right? Sensors but also AI and the software around that, okay, and there are some very big players developing the software. Tesla's had their Autonomy Day where they've showcased their technology. You've obviously got Google with their capabilities developing software. How do you make sense of this overall landscape because we do see a lot of smaller providers also trying to develop software here. >> So the first thing that I find fascinating about the automotive industry is that for the most part there is no software market. There's perhaps one exception of any scale, that's BlackBerry that sells the QNX software. They found a point within the entertainment console where they can license their software. But for all of the development and capital invested into automotive software, nobody is actually generating revenue, making a living, by licensing software. And one of the main reasons for that is that, you know, the automotive market, really since inception, has been a hardware business. This is a business of bending sheet metal, internal combustion engines, and software has really not played that big a role up until relatively recently. So even those companies that do have software technology have ended up selling it into the automotive supply chain as a piece of silicon, embedded on a piece of silicon, not as, you know, here's my software on a USB stick, right? I think that the whole software licensing model hasn't so far fit well, fit comfortably, with the automotive industry. And the other reason is that there's no standard platform. If I were to develop a piece of software, I can, in the PC industry, I can develop for Windows, I can develop for Mac, I can develop for an iPhone. There's no such thing in the automotive industry, and particularly in this new world of autonomous vehicles there is no standard platform. There are many different processors, Nvidia has staked an early claim there. And the reason that most of the companies developing autonomous vehicle technology have developed the so-called full-stack solution, everything from code running on the processor, integrated through the sensors and so forth, is for that reason, there is no standard platform. So each company has developed the whole solution for themselves, and there are many of them around here that have raised hundreds of millions of dollars, some cases billions of dollars, for that purpose. So there is, today, no software market for automotive in the same way that we think about it in other industries. >> Understood, understood. But in terms of the companies that are actually pushing the envelope on these kind of capabilities, right, so we're taking the best of AI, we're applying it to big data sets, and then hopefully being able to extract that to create capabilities for these vehicles, right? What's your sense of how far that's come along in-- >> Well, it's come a long way but, here I'm going to push the boat out a little bit. I don't believe that the so-called deep learning technology, which is the current state of the art for AI, it's the technology that has allowed computers to beat humans at chess, at Go, I don't think that that flavor of AI, that approach to AI, is ever going to get us to safe enough autonomous vehicles. And that's because it works extremely well in fairly well-bounded rules, rule-bounded games or any scenario like that, but can you imagine trying to teach your 16-year-old how to drive by showing them images of every situation that they might encounter, right? Impossible. It's an infinite, it's not a well-bounded set. And that's so difficult because we really haven't developed the technology to allow computers to learn, to have things like common sense, to infer, you know, well, this happened, so this is likely to happen. So I think we are going to need a whole new breakthrough in AI before we get to what is generally considered safe enough vehicles. >> Interesting, well then, maybe if we kind of apply your previous thought about sort of Robo-Taxis as maybe being the segment where you're going to see the most use of these newer sensor technologies. >> Rudy: Near term, yes. >> Exactly, what about maybe, is that sort of the same rules apply there for maybe the AI providers, that they're-- >> I think so and that's why they're all focused on that. I mean, from Uber to Waymo, they've all made the same calculation which is if you're running a fleet of vehicles, and so for example in Uber's case, the driver takes 80% of the fare and only 20% goes back to Uber, but if you can replace the driver with a computer, you can keep that vehicle on the road 24 by seven and you can keep 100% of the revenue. You don't need to pay the computer. So that's the calculus that they're all going through. But I think that many of them are making a fundamental mistake and I predicted recently that I think Uber, my prediction for 2020 is that Uber is going to divest its autonomous vehicle business and get back to the business that it should be focused on. Uber generates about $14 billion a year in gross revenue, so 20% of that, which is the piece that Uber keeps after the drivers take their 80, is what, 2.8 billion. Uber should be able to be an extremely profitable business on 2.8 billion of net revenue, but they're spending a huge chunk of money every year on R&D. Now, I would argue that Hertz and Avis have successful businesses. They're in the service, they're in the transportation business, but they didn't decide that they had to build their own cars in order to be in that business. My view, personal view, is that what Uber should be doing is saying, that's not our business, right? We are the world's best at managing this sort of peer-to-peer network crowdsourced transportation, if you will. And when some company, some Silicon Valley startup, comes out with safe enough technology, great, we'll use it, but we don't have to develop that ourselves. >> Well then, maybe just to play devil's advocate here for a second, what about it's a Robo-Taxi-type technologies being applied in bounded areas within metropolitan areas where the rules-- >> That's where it will start. >> Could be more-- >> I think that's where it will start, but I think part of the problem is that we have, perhaps in part due to all of the media hype around autonomous vehicles, we've been misdirected to thinking about autonomous vehicles as a replacement for the car we drive to work every day and I think that's the wrong way to think about it. I think that autonomous vehicles are going to show up in the market as an extension of public transportation. Right, you know, I get off the train and there's an autonomous vehicle waiting to take me for the last couple of miles to my office. >> And those last couple of miles would be sort of a regulated space. >> Rudy: May well be. >> Where the AI is more than capable of functioning. >> Right, and that, you know, yes. And so it's better to think about autonomous vehicles as not being a revolutionary technology but much more of an evolutionary technology. And in fact, most of these technologies are showing up in so-called ADAS technologies which are designed to make driving your regular car safer, lane assist, keeping you a safe distance. >> Donald: Maybe just explain that word, ADAS, and what that means. >> So ADAS stands for automated driver-assistance systems. So one of the first was cruise control, right, everybody's familiar with cruise control. And so to some extent ADAS is just building on cruise control. In addition to maintaining a constant speed, you can now stay in the lane. In addition to maintaining a constant speed, it will now automatically slow down if you get too close to the car in front. And so you can see ADAS as, you know, collision avoidance and so forth, not full autonomy, still have to have a driver in the driver's seat, but evolving year by year until one year we wake up and, yep, my car will actually drive me all the way from home to work without me intervening. Right, it's going to happen in that way. >> So incremental improvements. >> Incremental improvement. >> To ADAS as opposed to kind of revolution of autonomy. >> An overnight sensation. >> Yeah, right, coming from nowhere. Okay, understood. Well then, let's pivot from that then, okay. So let's talk about the automotive industry as a whole and sort of your thoughts on how this is all going to play out. >> Yeah, so there are some very interesting dynamics playing out in the automotive industry. Firstly, as good news, as a result of all of this money and innovation in the automotive industry, Detroit's actually coming back. I go there once or twice a year and you can feel the economy coming back in Detroit, but it's not going to come back around, you know, bending sheet metal. And the challenge that the automotive companies have is so much of their infrastructure and expertise has been built on construction, building a car, production lines to bend the metal, install the engine, and the internal combustion engine itself. And by complete coincidence, to some extent, we've got this confluence of all of these autonomous technologies and electric vehicles happening at the same time. Electric vehicles are much easier to make than internal combustion engines. Far fewer parts. It's one of the reasons that China has spun up about 20 different electric vehicle companies recently. So I think that long term, my prediction is that the automobile industry will go the same way that the personal computer industry went. When the PC first, you know, it was born by IBM, or Apple in some sense before that. There were dozens of companies producing different PCs and it was very much, they were expensive products, and, you know, relatively unusual. As the industry matured, the supply chains matured, and it became apparent there were really only two companies that were making a lot of money out of the PC industry. The companies that developed the software, operating system, and the companies that developed the processor, and all of the manufacturing went over to, in the PC's case, in Taiwan, right? And I think that exactly the same thing is going to happen with the automotive industry. Tesla today still actually makes cars, but I don't see them long term being in the car business because they're really a technology company. It's the reason I don't think Apple is ever going to get into the car industry. They make fantastic margins selling computer products. The gross margin selling a car, it's miserable. It can be single digits or teens. That would completely tank Apple's blended gross margin. So my prediction for the industry is there will be a few small pockets of very profitable businesses, particularly around the operating system, by which I mean the intelligence or the AI intelligence, and then the processor, whether it's a Qualcomm processor or a Nvidia processor or an Intel processor. And as with the PC industry, most of the profit will go there and most of the manufacturing will end up getting outsourced because that's not the value-add, you know, bending metal and so forth. >> Interesting, well, so in the kind of compute market today, right, we have this notion of sort of cloud-native, right, okay, and that many of the companies that are developing apps as relying on cloud-native infrastructure have a kind of technology lead that's going to be hard for some of the legacy providers to actually catch up on. Now, other people say that that's not necessarily the case and et cetera, right? Can you make the same argument for the electric car market, that some of the electric-natives might have a kind of sustainable advantage here? >> I should've added, today the cloud infrastructure companies, cloud services, SaaS companies, in the PC world, you know, very profitable, and I can see a similar cloud services model developing for the automotive industry. However, other than Tesla, it's very difficult to change the automotive channel to support that. I'll give you one example. Everyone that owns a Tesla is very used to the idea that, sometimes on a daily basis, a new bunch of software, operating system software, is downloaded overnight to your vehicle. You wake up in the morning and some new feature's been turned on, right? Tesla can do that because they bypass the entire dealership channel that has a complete lock on the rest of the industry. So for example, if GM wants to do the same thing as Tesla and do sort of what's called over-the-air, OTA, updates, software updates, they can't do that because their contract with the dealership network states that if there is service to be done on the vehicle, the vehicle has to be brought back to the dealership, and the dealerships consider updating the software on the vehicle as service. So their contract with the dealers actually prevent them from doing something that basic. So it's not just a technology issue. The whole channel and way vehicles get sold is going to have to change. >> Interesting, so that's the advantage that some of the new generation of vehicle manufacturers-- >> I would say that Tesla has a five year lead, technology lead, because they, like Apple, are vertically integrated. They're doing everything from user interface, fit and function, all the way down to the semiconductor. They're developing their own semiconductors now. So they have become a fearsome competitor in the electronic vehicle space because they've been doing it for longer than the other major auto companies. They've figured out a lot of the, you know, tricks and techniques of how to extend mileage and so forth. And so they have a substantial lead in the industry at this point, despite the fact that over the next 12, 18 months, every automotive company is going to be coming out with their own flavor of electronic vehicle. >> So then it's more than just about having electric drivetrains, et cetera, right? It's about the whole suite of capabilities. >> It's a systems engineering challenge. >> Interesting, okay. All right, well Rudy, we're going to have to leave it there, okay, but I think everything you've told us is, it sounds like some good news for some of the Tesla stock holders at the moment. >> I think so. >> Okay, well. (laughs) We'll pass on making an opinion about that, but great conversation, thank you for your insights. Okay, this is Donald Klein, host of theCUBE, here with Rudy Burger, managing partner at Woodside Capital. >> Rudy: Great, thank you, Don. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hi, and welcome to theCUBE, the leading source for insights into the world of technology and innovation. I'm your host Donald Klein, and today's topic is the market for autonomous vehicles and the ecosystem suppliers looking to tap into this brave new world of autonomous capabilities in our daily commute. To have this conversation I'm joined by Rudy Burger, managing partner at Woodside Capital. Rudy, welcome to the show. >> Thanks Don, it's great to be here. >> Great, so look, why don't we start off Rudy, why don't you tell us a little bit about Woodside Capital and your role there? >> Great, so I founded Woodside Capital about 20 years ago having started five different companies of my own, one of which I took public. We are a specialist M&A advisor. We work with so-called growth stage often venture-backed companies and help them find buyers that are usually much larger public companies. Our clients are usually US or European companies and we find buyers in the US, Europe, or Asia. >> Excellent, excellent, okay. And why don't you talk a little bit about your kind of specialty areas? >> So I focused my career, and certainly the work at Woodside Capital, on imaging technologies and as an enabling technology, and the products and markets that are enabled by imaging and increasingly computer vision. So nowadays that is autonomous vehicles, consumer technology, security surveillance, and digital health. So enabling technologies, the computer vision is the theme that binds those together. >> Okay, well, the thing that's on everybody's mind these days is autonomous vehicles, when are we going to get them? Very high profile for sure. Before the show we talking about the kind of two key ingredients to making this happen, the AI software which is kind of the brains of the operation and then also the sensors which enable all of the AI. So why don't we talk about the sensor world first, okay? Lot of discussion about there, so sort of does the brave new world of vehicles need lidar? Does it not need lidar? Are there other types of sensors coming along? What's your sense of that market and how it's looking for all of the different players in it? >> So, Don, I look at it from a sort of fairly basic standpoint. Humans have two very capable image sensors and a very powerful processor, and the degree to which the automotive manufacturers and so-called Robo-Taxi developers have decided it's necessary to sprinkle every sensor known to man, and I'm talking lidar, radar, ultrasound, thermal, and of course cameras, is to some extent a degree to which, you know, image sensors are not as good as our eyes today. Now, there are some areas in which we will probably always have technology as a help. For example, humans are not very good at seeing in the dark whereas a thermal technology can do that very well. But my overall belief is that it's never a good idea to bet against an incumbent technology, and in this case I'm talking about so-called CMOS image sensors which are the sensor that goes into pretty much every camera in the world now. It's never a good idea to bet against the incumbent technology being able to scale into a new market. Every time people have done that, they've been wrong. Back in the early days the debate was whether CMOS image sensors would ever be good enough to replace CCDs as the sensor technology, and of course now, you know, everything uses CMOS image sensors. In other markets there was a long period of time in which people were thinking that LCD panels would never be large enough to replace, you know, for television, for example, 50 inch and so forth. It was never going to happen, so we needed plasma TVs, we needed rear-projection TVs. But slowly but surely the incumbent technology, LCDs, expanded to that market. So my belief is that CMOS image sensors will evolve to a point at which they will replace the need for lidar in most applications. >> Interesting, so that's a very controversial statement, right? Because you've certainly seen a lot of emphasis on the development of new generation lidar capability. >> Over 100 lidar companies started over the last three, four years, and of course many of them will not be happy to hear me say that. There are two distinct markets and one is the so-called Robo-Taxi market, and the other is more of the consumer vehicle ADAS market, and I think we need to think about those separately because the economics behind both are very different. If you look at the Robo-Taxi market, those vehicles tend to be much more expensive and are relatively price-insensitive. So if they can improve safety a little bit by putting a lidar on there, you know, great, let's do it, multiple lidars because these vehicles will be in operation 24 by seven, and if each vehicle costs 200,000, $250,000, fine. When we talk about the mass market for automobiles, type of car that you and I might go down and buy, very different thing. And, you know, auto makers sweat the pennies, and so putting a one or $200 lidar in a vehicle, big decision. And to the extent that they can replace the need for that lidar with a much less expensive camera system, that's what they'll do. Bear in mind that Mobileye, which has been the biggest success story, acquired by Intel for $13.5 billion, second largest acquisition Intel ever made, they for the most part still run on one camera, forward-looking camera. That's it, no radar, no lidar, no thermal, one camera. So the clever use of image processing, computer vision, and one image sensor can do a great deal. >> Interesting, okay. Well, so I want to talk about the software in just a second, but just to kind of finish this point, so if you were advising a sensor company that's developing some next gen capabilities, whether lidar or other related technologies, is the point you're making here that there are certain segments of this industry which are going to be more attractive to your technology than others? >> Absolutely, yes. I mean, the first thing to recognize is that the automotive industry has never really been a particularly comfortable fit with the economics and timeline of venture capital. VCs need to invest and recoup and redeploy back to their LPs on an eight-year cycle. But the automotive industry moves quite slowly, perhaps Tesla are excepted, and what the first piece of advice I would give these companies is it's probably going to be three, four, five years before, even if you have the right technology, before that technology really starts generating any significant volume and revenue. So for many venture-backed companies, that's too long. So the first piece of advice is find pockets of revenue, right, beachheads if you will, where you can land your technology and start generating revenue before you get to the automotive market. And many of these lidar companies we just talked about are not going to last long enough to get to the automotive market because not only does the automotive market move slowly but the autonomous vehicle market keeps on getting pushed out to the right as the industry realizes that this is a big, hairy problem. And so I would say, what is it that your technology can do an order of magnitude better than any other technology? Focus on that and find some opportunities for revenue outside the automotive industry that will sustain the company on its way to the holy grail. >> Interesting, yeah, so find that alternative revenue source to get you to base camp, and then when the market's ready, climb that Everest to-- >> I've seen so many companies basically go out of business because they've set their sights on either the automotive market, and it's go for broke. We're not interested in, all these other things are distractions. You know, entrepreneurs don't have a plan B. Or this. We're going to get our technology into a smartphone, that's it. And there are possibly some other opportunities but it takes so long and it's so difficult to get your technology into a smartphone that they go out of business before they ever get to that point. >> Interesting, okay. So good advice for people looking to kind of apply their technology in this kind of a very difficult market, right, very complicated market. All right, well, then let's switch to the other side of it. So we were kind of talking about the key ingredients, right? Sensors but also AI and the software around that, okay, and there are some very big players developing the software. Tesla's had their Autonomy Day where they've showcased their technology. You've obviously got Google with their capabilities developing software. How do you make sense of this overall landscape because we do see a lot of smaller providers also trying to develop software here. >> So the first thing that I find fascinating about the automotive industry is that for the most part there is no software market. There's perhaps one exception of any scale, that's BlackBerry that sells the QNX software. They found a point within the entertainment console where they can license their software. But for all of the development and capital invested into automotive software, nobody is actually generating revenue, making a living, by licensing software. And one of the main reasons for that is that, you know, the automotive market, really since inception, has been a hardware business. This is a business of bending sheet metal, internal combustion engines, and software has really not played that big a role up until relatively recently. So even those companies that do have software technology have ended up selling it into the automotive supply chain as a piece of silicon, embedded on a piece of silicon, not as, you know, here's my software on a USB stick, right? I think that the whole software licensing model hasn't so far fit well, fit comfortably, with the automotive industry. And the other reason is that there's no standard platform. If I were to develop a piece of software, I can, in the PC industry, I can develop for Windows, I can develop for Mac, I can develop for an iPhone. There's no such thing in the automotive industry, and particularly in this new world of autonomous vehicles there is no standard platform. There are many different processors, Nvidia has staked an early claim there. And the reason that most of the companies developing autonomous vehicle technology have developed the so-called full-stack solution, everything from code running on the processor, integrated through the sensors and so forth, is for that reason, there is no standard platform. So each company has developed the whole solution for themselves, and there are many of them around here that have raised hundreds of millions of dollars, some cases billions of dollars, for that purpose. So there is, today, no software market for automotive in the same way that we think about it in other industries. >> Understood, understood. But in terms of the companies that are actually pushing the envelope on these kind of capabilities, right, so we're taking the best of AI, we're applying it to big data sets, and then hopefully being able to extract that to create capabilities for these vehicles, right? What's your sense of how far that's come along in-- >> Well, it's come a long way but, here I'm going to push the boat out a little bit. I don't believe that the so-called deep learning technology, which is the current state of the art for AI, it's the technology that has allowed computers to beat humans at chess, at Go, I don't think that that flavor of AI, that approach to AI, is ever going to get us to safe enough autonomous vehicles. And that's because it works extremely well in fairly well-bounded rules, rule-bounded games or any scenario like that, but can you imagine trying to teach your 16-year-old how to drive by showing them images of every situation that they might encounter, right? Impossible. It's an infinite, it's not a well-bounded set. And that's so difficult because we really haven't developed the technology to allow computers to learn, to have things like common sense, to infer, you know, well, this happened, so this is likely to happen. So I think we are going to need a whole new breakthrough in AI before we get to what is generally considered safe enough vehicles. >> Interesting, well then, maybe if we kind of apply your previous thought about sort of Robo-Taxis as maybe being the segment where you're going to see the most use of these newer sensor technologies. >> Rudy: Near term, yes. >> Exactly, what about maybe, is that sort of the same rules apply there for maybe the AI providers, that they're-- >> I think so and that's why they're all focused on that. I mean, from Uber to Waymo, they've all made the same calculation which is if you're running a fleet of vehicles, and so for example in Uber's case, the driver takes 80% of the fare and only 20% goes back to Uber, but if you can replace the driver with a computer, you can keep that vehicle on the road 24 by seven and you can keep 100% of the revenue. You don't need to pay the computer. So that's the calculus that they're all going through. But I think that many of them are making a fundamental mistake and I predicted recently that I think Uber, my prediction for 2020 is that Uber is going to divest its autonomous vehicle business and get back to the business that it should be focused on. Uber generates about $14 billion a year in gross revenue, so 20% of that, which is the piece that Uber keeps after the drivers take their 80, is what, 2.8 billion. Uber should be able to be an extremely profitable business on 2.8 billion of net revenue, but they're spending a huge chunk of money every year on R&D. Now, I would argue that Hertz and Avis have successful businesses. They're in the service, they're in the transportation business, but they didn't decide that they had to build their own cars in order to be in that business. My view, personal view, is that what Uber should be doing is saying, that's not our business, right? We are the world's best at managing this sort of peer-to-peer network crowdsourced transportation, if you will. And when some company, some Silicon Valley startup, comes out with safe enough technology, great, we'll use it, but we don't have to develop that ourselves. >> Well then, maybe just to play devil's advocate here for a second, what about it's a Robo-Taxi-type technologies being applied in bounded areas within metropolitan areas where the rules-- >> That's where it will start. >> Could be more-- >> I think that's where it will start, but I think part of the problem is that we have, perhaps in part due to all of the media hype around autonomous vehicles, we've been misdirected to thinking about autonomous vehicles as a replacement for the car we drive to work every day and I think that's the wrong way to think about it. I think that autonomous vehicles are going to show up in the market as an extension of public transportation. Right, you know, I get off the train and there's an autonomous vehicle waiting to take me for the last couple of miles to my office. >> And those last couple of miles would be sort of a regulated space. >> Rudy: May well be. >> Where the AI is more than capable of functioning. >> Right, and that, you know, yes. And so it's better to think about autonomous vehicles as not being a revolutionary technology but much more of an evolutionary technology. And in fact, most of these technologies are showing up in so-called ADAS technologies which are designed to make driving your regular car safer, lane assist, keeping you a safe distance. >> Donald: Maybe just explain that word, ADAS, and what that means. >> So ADAS stands for automated driver-assistance systems. So one of the first was cruise control, right, everybody's familiar with cruise control. And so to some extent ADAS is just building on cruise control. In addition to maintaining a constant speed, you can now stay in the lane. In addition to maintaining a constant speed, it will now automatically slow down if you get too close to the car in front. And so you can see ADAS as, you know, collision avoidance and so forth, not full autonomy, still have to have a driver in the driver's seat, but evolving year by year until one year we wake up and, yep, my car will actually drive me all the way from home to work without me intervening. Right, it's going to happen in that way. >> So incremental improvements. >> Incremental improvement. >> To ADAS as opposed to kind of revolution of autonomy. >> An overnight sensation. >> Yeah, right, coming from nowhere. Okay, understood. Well then, let's pivot from that then, okay. So let's talk about the automotive industry as a whole and sort of your thoughts on how this is all going to play out. >> Yeah, so there are some very interesting dynamics playing out in the automotive industry. Firstly, as good news, as a result of all of this money and innovation in the automotive industry, Detroit's actually coming back. I go there once or twice a year and you can feel the economy coming back in Detroit, but it's not going to come back around, you know, bending sheet metal. And the challenge that the automotive companies have is so much of their infrastructure and expertise has been built on construction, building a car, production lines to bend the metal, install the engine, and the internal combustion engine itself. And by complete coincidence, to some extent, we've got this confluence of all of these autonomous technologies and electric vehicles happening at the same time. Electric vehicles are much easier to make than internal combustion engines. Far fewer parts. It's one of the reasons that China has spun up about 20 different electric vehicle companies recently. So I think that long term, my prediction is that the automobile industry will go the same way that the personal computer industry went. When the PC first, you know, it was born by IBM, or Apple in some sense before that. There were dozens of companies producing different PCs and it was very much, they were expensive products, and, you know, relatively unusual. As the industry matured, the supply chains matured, and it became apparent there were really only two companies that were making a lot of money out of the PC industry. The companies that developed the software, operating system, and the companies that developed the processor, and all of the manufacturing went over to, in the PC's case, in Taiwan, right? And I think that exactly the same thing is going to happen with the automotive industry. Tesla today still actually makes cars, but I don't see them long term being in the car business because they're really a technology company. It's the reason I don't think Apple is ever going to get into the car industry. They make fantastic margins selling computer products. The gross margin selling a car, it's miserable. It can be single digits or teens. That would completely tank Apple's blended gross margin. So my prediction for the industry is there will be a few small pockets of very profitable businesses, particularly around the operating system, by which I mean the intelligence or the AI intelligence, and then the processor, whether it's a Qualcomm processor or a Nvidia processor or an Intel processor. And as with the PC industry, most of the profit will go there and most of the manufacturing will end up getting outsourced because that's not the value-add, you know, bending metal and so forth. >> Interesting, well, so in the kind of compute market today, right, we have this notion of sort of cloud-native, right, okay, and that many of the companies that are developing apps as relying on cloud-native infrastructure have a kind of technology lead that's going to be hard for some of the legacy providers to actually catch up on. Now, other people say that that's not necessarily the case and et cetera, right? Can you make the same argument for the electric car market, that some of the electric-natives might have a kind of sustainable advantage here? >> I should've added, today the cloud infrastructure companies, cloud services, SaaS companies, in the PC world, you know, very profitable, and I can see a similar cloud services model developing for the automotive industry. However, other than Tesla, it's very difficult to change the automotive channel to support that. I'll give you one example. Everyone that owns a Tesla is very used to the idea that, sometimes on a daily basis, a new bunch of software, operating system software, is downloaded overnight to your vehicle. You wake up in the morning and some new feature's been turned on, right? Tesla can do that because they bypass the entire dealership channel that has a complete lock on the rest of the industry. So for example, if GM wants to do the same thing as Tesla and do sort of what's called over-the-air, OTA, updates, software updates, they can't do that because their contract with the dealership network states that if there is service to be done on the vehicle, the vehicle has to be brought back to the dealership, and the dealerships consider updating the software on the vehicle as service. So their contract with the dealers actually prevent them from doing something that basic. So it's not just a technology issue. The whole channel and way vehicles get sold is going to have to change. >> Interesting, so that's the advantage that some of the new generation of vehicle manufacturers-- >> I would say that Tesla has a five year lead, technology lead, because they, like Apple, are vertically integrated. They're doing everything from user interface, fit and function, all the way down to the semiconductor. They're developing their own semiconductors now. So they have become a fearsome competitor in the electronic vehicle space because they've been doing it for longer than the other major auto companies. They've figured out a lot of the, you know, tricks and techniques of how to extend mileage and so forth. And so they have a substantial lead in the industry at this point, despite the fact that over the next 12, 18 months, every automotive company is going to be coming out with their own flavor of electronic vehicle. >> So then it's more than just about having electric drivetrains, et cetera, right? It's about the whole suite of capabilities. >> It's a systems engineering challenge. >> Interesting, okay. All right, well Rudy, we're going to have to leave it there, okay, but I think everything you've told us is, it sounds like some good news for some of the Tesla stock holders at the moment. >> I think so. >> Okay, well. (laughs) We'll pass on making an opinion about that, but great conversation, thank you for your insights. Okay, this is Donald Klein, host of theCUBE, here with Rudy Burger, managing partner at Woodside Capital. >> Rudy: Great, thank you, Don. (upbeat music)

>> from Seattle WASHINGTON. It's the Q covering AWS Imagine brought to you by Amazon Web service is >> Hey, welcome back, You're ready. Geoffrey here with the Cube were in Seattle, >> Washington downtown, right next to the convention center for the AWS. Imagine e d. You show. It's a second year of the show found by Andrew Cohen. His crew, part of Theresa's public sector group, really focused on education. Education means everything from K through 12 higher education and community college education, getting out of the military and retraining education. It's ah, it's a really huge category, and it's everything from, you know, getting the colleges to do a better job by being on cloud infrastructure, innovating and really thinking outside the box are really excited to have the man who's doing a lot of the work on the curriculum development in the education is Ken Eisner is the director of worldwide education programs for AWS. Educate can great to see you. Thank you so much for having absolutely nice shot out this morning by Theresa, she said. She just keeps asking you for more. So >> you want to deliver for Theresa? Carl says she is. She is a dynamo and she drives us >> all she does. So let's dive into it a little bit. So, you know, there was, Ah, great line that they played in the keynote with Andy talking about, You know, we cannot be protecting old institutions. We need to think about the kids is a story I hear all the time where somebody came from a time machine from 17 76 and landed here today. It wouldn't recognize how we talk, how we get around, but they would recognize one thing, and unfortunately, that's the school house down at the end of the block. So you guys are trying to change that. You're really trying to revolutionize what's happening in education, give us a little bit of background on some of the specific things that you're working on today. >> Yeah, I I think Andy, one of the things that he mentioned at that time was that education is really in a crisis on. We need to be inventing at a rapid rate. We need to show that invented simplify inside that occassion. Andi, he's incredibly, he's correct. The students are our customers, and we've got to be changing things for them. What we've been really excited to see is that with this giant growth in cloud computing A W S. It was the fastest I T vendor to ever hit $10,000,000,000 a year. The run rate We're now growing at a 42% or 41% year over year growth Ray and $31,000,000,000 a year Lee company. It's creating this giant cloud computing opportunity cloud computing in the number one Lincoln Skill for the past four years in Rome, when we look at that software development to cloud architecture to the data science and artificial intelligence and data analytics and cyber security rules. But we're not preparing kids for this. Market Gallop ran a study that that showed about 11% of business executives thought that students were prepared for their jobs. It's not working, It's gotta change. And the exciting thing that's happening right now is workforce development. Governments are really pushing for change in education, and it's starting to happen >> right? It's pretty amazing were here last year. The team last year was very much round the community college releases and the certification of the associate programs and trial down in Southern California, and this year. I've been surprised. We've had two guests on where it's the state governor has pushed these initiatives not at the district level, the city level, but from the state winning both Louisiana as well as Virginia. That's pretty amazing support to move in such an aggressive direction and really a new area. >> Yeah, I was actually just moderating a panel where we had Virginia, Louisiana, in California, all sitting down talking about that scaling statewide strategy. We had announcements from the entire CUNY and Sunni or City University of New York and State University of New York system to do both two and four year programs in Cloud Computing. And Louisiana announced it with their K 12 system, their community college system and their four year with Governor John Bel Edwards making the announcement two months ago. So right we are seeing this scaling consortium, a play where institutions are collaborating across themselves. They're collaborating vertically with your higher ed and K 12 and yet direct to the workforce because we need to be hiring people at such a rapid ray that we we need to be also putting a lot of skin in the game and that story that happened so again, I agree with Andy said. Education is at a crisis. But now we're starting to see change makers inside of education, making that move right. It's interesting. I wonder, >> you know, is it? Is it? I don't want to say second tier, that's the wrong word, but kind of what I'm thinking, you know, kind of these other institutions that the schools that don't necessarily have the super top in cachet, you know who are forced to be innovative, right? We're number two. We try harder. As they used to say in the in the Hertz commercial. Um, really a lot of creativity coming out of again the community colleges last year in L. A. Which I was, I was blown away, that kind of understand cause that specifically to skill people up to get a job. But now you're hearing it in much more kind of traditional institutions and doing really innovative things like the thing with the the Marines teaching active duty Marines about data science. >> Yeah, who came up with that idea that phenomenal Well, you know, data permeates every threat. It's not just impure data science, jobs and machine learning jobs. There's air brilliantly important, but it's also in marketing jobs and business jobs. And so on. Dad Analytics, that intelligence, security, cybersecurity so important that you think, God, you Northern Virginia Community College in U. S. Marine Corps are working for to make these programs available to their veterans and active military. The other thing is, they're sharing it with the rest of the student by. So that's I think another thing that's happening is this sharing this ability, all of for this cloud degree program that AWS educate is running. All these institutions are sharing their curricula. So the stuff that was done in Los Angeles is being learned in Virginia is the stuff that the U. S Marine Corps is doing is being available to students. Who are you not in military occupations? I think that collaboration mode is is amazing. The thing they say about community colleges and just this new locus of control for education on dhe. Why it's changing community colleges. You're right there. They're moving fast. These institutions have a bias for action. They know they have to. You change the r A. Y right? It's about preventing students for this work for, but they also serve as a flywheel to those four year institutions back to the 12 into the into the workforce and they hit you underserved audience. Is that the rest? So that you were not all picking from the same crew? You cannot keep going to just your lead institutions and recruit. We have to grow that pipeline. So you thank thank these places for moving quick brand operating for their student, right? >> Right, And and And that's where the innovation happens, right? I mean, that's that's, uh, that that's goodness. And the other thing that that was pretty interesting was, um, you know, obviously Skilling people up to get jobs. You need to hire him. That's pretty. That's pretty obvious and simple, but really bringing kind of big data attitude analytics attitude into the universities across into the research departments and the medical schools. And you think at first well, of course, researchers are data centric, right? They've been doing it that way for a long time, but they haven't been doing it and kind of the modern big, big data, real time analytics, you know, streaming data, not sampling data, all the data. So so even bringing that type of point of view, I don't know mindset to the academic institutions outside of what they're doing for the students. >> Absolutely. The machine learning is really changing the game. This notion of big data, the way that costs have gone down in terms of storing and utilizing data and right, it's streaming data. It's non Columbia or down, as opposed to yeah, the old pure sequel set up right that that is a game changer. No longer can you make just can you make a theory and tested out theories air coming streaming by looking at that data and letting it do some work for you, which is kind of machine learning, artificial intelligence path, and it's all becoming democratized. So, yes, researchers need to need learn these new past two to make sense and tow leverage. This with that big data on the medical center site, there are cures that can be discerned again. Some of our most pressing diseases by leveraging data way gonna change. And we, by the way, we gotta change that mindset, not just yeah, the phD level, but actually at the K 12 levels. Are kids learning the right skills to prepare them for you this new big data world once they get into higher ed, right? And then the last piece, which again we've seen >> on the Enterprise. You've kind of seen the movie on the enterprise side in terms of of cloud adoption. What AWS has done is at first it's a better, more efficient way to run your infrastructure. It's, you know, there's a whole bunch of good things that come from running a cloud infrastructure, but >> that's not. But that's not the end, right? The answer to the question >> is the innovation right? It's It's the speed of change, of speed development and some of the things that we're seeing here around the competitive nature of higher education, trying to appeal to the younger kids because you're competing for their time and attention in there. And they're dollar really interesting stuff with Alexa and some of these other kind of innovation, which is where the goodness really starts to pay off on a cloud investment. >> Yeah, without a doubt, Alexa Week AWS came up with robo maker and Deep Racer on our last reinvent, and there's there's organizations at the K 12 level like First Robotics and Project lead. The way they're doing really cool stuff by making this this relevant it you education becomes more relevant when kids get to do hands on stuff. A W S lowers the price for failure lowers the ability you can just open a browser and do real world hands on bay hands on stuff robotics, a rvr that all of these things again are game changers inside the classroom. But you also have to connect it to jobs at the end, right? And if your educational institutions can become more relevant to their students in terms of preparing them for jobs like they've done in Santa Monica College and like they're doing in Northern Virginia Community College across the state of Louisiana and by May putting the real world stuff in the hands of their kids, they will then start to attract assumes. We saw this happen in Santa Monica. They opened up one class, a classroom of 35 students that sold out in a day. They opened another co ward of 35 sold out in another day or two. The name went from 70 students. Last year, about 325 they opened up this California cloud workforce project where they now have 825 students of five. These Northern Virginia Community College. They're they're cloud associate degree that they ran into tandem with AWS Educate grew from 30 students at the start of the year to well over 100. Now the's programs will drive students to them, right and students will get a job at the end. >> Right? Right, well and can. And can the school support the demand? I mean, that's That's a problem we see with CS, right? Everyone says, Tell your kids to take CS. They want to take CS. Guess what? There's no sections, hope in C. S. So you know, thinking of it in a different way, a little bit more innovative way providing that infrastructure kind of ready to go in a cloud based way. Now we'll hopefully enable them to get more kids and really fulfill the demand. >> Absolutely. There's another thing with professional development. I think you're hitting on, so we definitely have a shortage in terms of teachers who are capable to teach about software development and cloud architecture and data sciences and cybersecurity. So we're putting AWS educators putting a specific focus on professional development. We also want to bring Amazonian, Tze and our customers and partners into the classroom to help with that, because the work based learning and the focus on subject matter expert experts is also important. But we really need to have programs both from industry as well as government out support new teachers coming into this field and in service training for existing teachers to make sure, because yes, we launch those programs and students will come. We have to make sure that were adequately preparing teachers. It's not it's not. It's not easy, but again, we're seeing whether it's Koda Cole out of yeah out of, uh, Roosevelt High School. Are the people that were working with George Mason University and so on were seeing such an appetite for making change for their students? And so they're putting in those extra hours they're getting that AWS certification, and they're getting stronger, prepared to teach inside the clients. >> That's amazing, cause right. Teachers have so many conflict ing draws on their time, many of which have nothing to do with teaching right whether it's regulations. And there's just so many things the teachers have to deal with. So you know the fact that they're encouraged. The fact that they want t to spend and invest in this is really a good sign and really a nice kind of indicator to you and the team that, you know, you guys were hitting something really, really positive. >> Yeah, I think we've had its this foam oh fear of missing out opportunity. There's the excitement of the cloud. There's the excitement of watching your kids. You're really transformed their lives. And it could be Alfredo Cologne who came over from Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria. You wiped out his economic potential and started taking AWS educate. And you're learning some of these pathways and then landing a job as the Dev Ops engineered. When you see the transformation in your students, no matter what their background is, it is. It is a game changer. This has got to be you. Listen, I love watching that women's team when I win the World Cup, and that the excitement cloud is like the new sport. Robotics is the new sport for these kids. They'll bring them on >> pathways to career, right. We'll take for taking a few minutes in The passion comes through, Andrew Koza big passion guy. And we know Teresa is a CZ Well, so it shines through and keep doing good work. >> Thank you so much for the time. Alright, he's can on Jeff. You're watching the cube. We're in downtown Seattle. A aws. Imagine e d. Thanks for watching. >> We'll see you next time.

>> from Seattle WASHINGTON. It's the Q covering AWS Imagine brought to you by Amazon Web service is >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeffrey here with the Cube were in Seattle, >> Washington downtown, right next to the convention center for the AWS. Imagine e d. You show. It's a second year of the show found by Andrew Cohen. His crew, part of Theresa's public sector group, really focused on education. Education means everything from K through 12 higher education, community college education, getting out of the military and retraining education. It's ah, it's a really huge category, and it's everything from, you know, getting the colleges to do a better job by being on cloud infrastructure, innovating and really thinking outside the box are really excited to have the man who's doing a lot of the work on the curriculum development in the education is Ken Eisner is the director of worldwide education programs for AWS. Educate can Great to see you. Thank you so much for having absolutely nice shot out this morning by Theresa, she said. She just keeps asking you for more. So >> you want to deliver for Theresa. Carl says she is. She is a dynamo, and she drives us >> all she does, so just dive into it a little bit. So, you know, there was, Ah, great line that they played in the keynote with Andy talking about, You know, we cannot be protecting old institutions. We need to think about the kids is a story I hear all the time where somebody came from a time machine from 17 76 and landed here today. It wouldn't recognize how we talk, how we get around, but they would recognize one thing, and unfortunately, that's the school house down at the end of the block. So you guys are trying to change that. You're really trying to revolutionize what's happening in education, give us a little bit of background on some of the specific things that you're working on today. >> Yeah, I think Andy, one of the things that he mentioned at that time was that education is really in a crisis on. We need to be inventing at a rapid rate. We need to show that invented, simple, fine inside education, and he's incredibly, he's correct. The students are our customers and we've got to be changing things for them. What we've been really excited to see is that with this giant growth in cloud computing a W. S. It was the fastest I T vendor to ever a $10,000,000,000 a year. The run rate. We're now growing at a 42% or 41% year over year growth Ray and $31,000,000,000 a year Lee company. It's creating this giant cloud computing opportunity, cloud computing in the number one linked in skill for the past four years in Rome. When we look at that software development to cloud architecture to the data science and artificial intelligence and data analytics and cyber security rules. But we're not preparing kids for this. Market Gallop ran a study that that showed about 11% of business executives thought that students were prepared for their jobs. It's not working, It's gotta change. And the exciting thing that's happening right now is workforce development. Governments are really pushing for change in education, and it's starting to happen right? It's pretty amazing were here last year. >> The team last year was very much round the community college releases and the certification of the associate programs and trial down in Southern California, and this year I've been surprised. We've had two guests on where it's the state governor has pushed these initiatives not at the district level, the city level, but from the state winning both Louisiana as well as Virginia. That's pretty amazing support to move in such an aggressive direction and really a new area. >> Yeah, I was actually just moderating a panel where we had Virginia, Louisiana, in California, all sitting down talking about that scaling statewide strategy. We had announcements from the entire CUNY and Sunni or City University of New York and State University of New York system to do both to end four year programs in Cloud Computing. And Louisiana announced it with their K 12 system, their community college system and their four year with Governor John Bel Edwards making the announcement two months ago. So right, we are seeing this scaling consortium, a play where institutions are collaborating across themselves. They're collaborating vertically with your higher ed and K 12 and yet direct to the workforce because we need to be hiring people at such a rapid ray that we we need to be also putting a lot of skin in the game. And that story that happened So again, I agree with Andy said. Education is at a crisis. But now we're starting to see change makers inside of education, making that move right. It's interesting. I wonder, >> you know, is it is it? I don't want to say second tier, that's the wrong word, but kind of what I'm thinking, you know, kind of these other institutions that the schools that don't necessarily have the super top in cachet, you know who are forced to be innovative, right? We're number two. We try harder. As they used to say in the in the Hertz commercial. Um, really a lot of creativity coming out of again the community colleges last year in L. A. Which I was, I was blown away, that kind of understand cause that specifically to skill people up to get a job. But now you're hearing it in much more kind of traditional institutions and doing really innovative things like the thing with the the Marines teaching active duty Marines about data science. >> Yeah, who came up with that idea that phenomenal Well, you know, data permeates every threat. It's not just impure data science, jobs and machine learning jobs. There's air brilliantly important, but it's also in marketing jobs and business jobs. And so on. Dad Analytics that intelligence, security, cybersecurity so important that you think, God, you Northern Virginia Community College in U. S. Marine Corps are working for to make these programs available to their veterans and active military. The other thing is, they're sharing it with the rest of the student by. So that's I think another thing that's happening is this. Sharing this ability all of for this cloud degree program that AWS educate is running. All these institutions are sharing their curricula. So the stuff that was done in Los Angeles is being learned in Virginia's stuff the U. S. Marine Corps is doing is being available to students. Who are you not in military occupations? I think that collaboration mode is is amazing, the thing they say about community colleges and just this new locus of control for education on dhe. Why it's changing community colleges. You're right there. They're moving fast. These institutions have a bias for action. They know they have to. You change the r A. Y right. It's about preventing students for this work for, but they also serve as a flywheel to those four year institutions back to the 12 into the into the workforce and they hit you underserved audience is that the rest is so that you were not all picking from the same crew. You cannot keep going to just share lead institutions and recruit. We have to grow that pipeline. So you thank thank these places for moving quick and operating for their student, right? >> Right, And and And that's where the innovation happens, right? I mean, that's that's, ah, that that's goodness. And the other thing that that was pretty interesting was obviously Skilling people up to get jobs, you need to hire him. That's pretty. That's pretty obvious and simple, but really bringing kind of big data attitude analytics attitude into the universities across into the research departments and the medical schools. And you think at first, of course, researchers are data centric, right? They've been doing it that way for a long time, but they haven't been doing it in kind of the modern big, big data. Real time analytics, you know, streaming data, not sampling data, all the data. So so even bringing that type of point of view, I don't know, mindset to the academic institutions outside of what they're doing for the students. >> Absolutely. The machine learning is really changing the game. This notion of big data, the way that costs have gone down in terms of storing and utilizing data and right, it's streaming data. It's non Columbia or down, as opposed to yeah, the old pure sequel set up right that that is a game changer. No longer can you make just can you make a theory and tested out theories air coming streaming by looking at that data and letting it do some work for you, which is kind of machine learning, artificial intelligence path, and it's all becoming democratized. So, yes, researchers need to need learn these new past two to make sense and tow leverage. This with that big data on the medical center site, there are cures that could be discerned again some of our most pressing diseases by leveraging data, way gonna change. And we, by the way, we gotta change that mindset, not just yeah, the phD level, but actually at the K 12 levels. Are kids learning the right skills to prepare them for you? This new big data world once they get into higher ed, right? And then the last piece, which again we've seen >> on the Enterprise. You've kind of seen the movie on the enterprise side in terms of of cloud adoption. What AWS has done is at first it's a better, more efficient way to run your infrastructure. It's, you know, there's a whole bunch of good things that come from running a cloud infrastructure, but >> that's not. But that's not the end, right? The answer to the question >> is the innovation right? It's It's the speed of change, of speed, a development and some of the things that we're seeing here around the competitive nature of higher education, trying to appeal to the younger kids because you're competing for their time and attention in there. And they're dollar really interesting stuff with Alexa and some of these other kind of innovation, which is where the goodness really starts to pay off on a cloud investment. >> Yeah, without a doubt, Alexa Week AWS came up with robo maker and Deep Racer on our last reinvent, and there's there's organizations at the K 12 level like First Robotics and project lead the way they're doing really cool stuff by making this this relevant you education becomes more relevant when kids get to do hands on stuff. A W S lowers the price for failure lowers the ability you can just open a browser and do real world hands on bay hands on stuff. Robotics, A R V R. That all of these things again are game changers inside the classroom. But you also have to connect it to jobs at the end, right? And if your educational institutions can become more relevant to their students in terms of preparing them for jobs like they've done in Santa Monica College and like they're doing in Northern Virginia Community College across the state of Louisiana and by May putting the real world stuff in the hands of their kids, they will then start to attract assumes. We saw this happen in Santa Monica. They opened up one class, a classroom of 35 students that sold out in a day. They opened another co ward of 35 sold out in another day or two. The name went from 70 students. Last year, about 325 they opened up this California Cloud Workforce Project, where they now have 825 students of five. These Northern Virginia Community College. They're they're cloud associate degree that they ran in tandem with AWS Educate grew from 30 students at the start of the year to well over 100. Now these programs will drive students to them right and students will get a job at the end. >> Right? Right, well in Ken. And can the schools sports a demand? That's that's a problem we see with CS, right? Everyone says, Tell your kids to take CS. They want to take CS. Guess what? There's no sections, hope in C. S. So you know, thinking of it in a different way, a little bit more innovative way providing that infrastructure kind of ready to go in a cloud based way. Now we'll hopefully enable them to get more kids and really fulfill the demand. >> Absolutely. There's another thing with professional development. I think you're hitting on, so we definitely have a shortage in terms of teachers who are capable to teach about software development and cloud architecture and data sciences and cybersecurity. So we're putting a W. C. Educate is putting a specific focus on professional development. We also want to bring Amazonian, Tze and our customers and partners into the classroom to help with that, because the work based learning and the focus on subject matter expert experts is also important. But we really need to have programs both from industry as well as government out support new teachers coming into this field and in service training for existing teachers to make sure, because yes, we launch those programs and students will come. We have to make sure that were adequately preparing teachers. It's not, it's not. It's not easy, but again, we're seeing whether it's Koda Cole out of out of, uh Roosevelt High School. Are the people that were working with George Mason University and so on were seeing such an appetite >> for >> making change for their students? And so they're putting in those extra hours they're getting that AWS certification, and they're getting stronger, prepared to teach inside the class. That's >> amazing, cause right. Teachers have so many conflict ing draws on their time, many of which have nothing to do with teaching right whether it's regulations and there's just so many things the teachers have to deal with. So you know the fact that they're encouraged the fact that they want t to spend and invest in this is really a good sign and really a nice kind of indicator to you and the team that, you know, you guys were hitting something really, really positive. >> Yeah, I think we've had its this foam oh fear of missing out opportunity. There's the excitement of the cloud. There's the excitement of watching your kids. You're really transformed their lives. And it could be Alfredo Cologne who came over from Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria. You wiped out his economic potential and started taking AWS educate and you're learning some of these pathways and then landing a job has the Dev ops engineer to Michael Brown, who went through that Santa Monica problem and >> landed an >> internship with Annika. When you see the transformation in your students, no matter what their background is, it is. It is a game changer. This has got to be you. Listen, I love watching that women's team when I win the World Cup, and that the excitement cloud is like the new sport. Robotics is the new sport for these kids. They'll bring them on >> pathways to career, right, well, take for taking a few minutes in The passion comes through Andrew Koza, Big passion guy. And we know Teresa is as well. So it shines through and keep doing good work. >> Thank you so much for the time. Alright, He's Can I'm Jeff, You're watching the Cube. We're in downtown Seattle. A aws. Imagine E d. Thanks for >> watching. We'll see you next time.

>> Live from Orlando, Florida. It's the Cube. Covering Enterprise Connect 2019, brought to you by Five9. >> Hello from Orlando, Florida. I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman on the Cube, at Enterprise Connect 2019. Stu and I are joined by a guest from Ribbon Communications. We've got Sacha Gera, the SVP of Cloud. Sacha welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> So we've had the opportunity to talk to one of your colleagues from Ribbon before but let's give our audience an opportunity to learn more about Ribbon, who you guys are, what you do and then of course we'll talk about some of the great new exciting announcements that you'll make here this week. >> Absolutely, so Ribbon Communications is a global leader in providing real-time communications. We provide piece parse technology to over a thousand carriers around the world and increasingly to independent software vendors and enterprise. So we came into existence about 18 months ago with the amalgamation of Sonus and GENBAND coming together and about 18 months old and doing some big things now so. >> And a lot of news coming out this week. Talk to us about some of the key announcements that Ribbon is making with some of your partners, AT&T for example. >> Absolutely, so our Kandy cloud communications business which is our SaaS brand, we're a white label platform as a service providing UCaaS and CPaaS services to independent software vendors and carriers around the world. And we're really excited about AT&T's announcement ahead of the conference here and AT&T, you know a lot of people have been saying, "We're waiting for the big tier one service providers to fire back at some of the more well-known CPaaS players out there." And so what we do is we helped AT&T with an end-to-end platform as a service play to help them launch their marketplace. And the key word there is marketplace. There is a lot of folks providing APIs and SDKs as you look around the conference here but when you think about the Fortune thousand looking for those low code, no code-type digital solutions that can have the easy button to launch and transform into the digital evolution that's going on, that's what we are helping AT&T to do. So it's been quite they announcement for us. >> Sacha, I love that. We've been saying for years you know, the enterprise really needs an upmarket place, just like we have on our phones, it'd be great to have that, you know when I came into the show. my first time coming here it was like okay, how much is it just API compatibility? And we were working amongst each other but as I walk around the show floor it's like, "Oh well yeah that (mumbles) makes sense." And then these kind of pieces, which ones come together and which ones would I, as an enterprise or service provider just be able to, you know, plug into. So can you speak a little a little of that maturation of the marketplace and what the reality out there is there today. >> Absolutely and think about that large enterprise that has an existing procurement vehicle with the large carriers. They're getting their data services, their telephony, their collaboration. It's an actual extension to want to sell use cases and digital solutions. And so with the carrier, you've got an existing bill. One bill. Now your adding APIs and SDKs, turn key digital solutions and an easy button that's more E-commerce centric. And that's really what we've been able to help AT&T do, to really move up the value chain, so. >> So when you're out talking with customers and I know one of your customers, Hertz was on the customer panel this morning during the general session. When you're out talking with customers, talk to us about real-time communication. It's this huge opportunity for customers. It's almost an imperative that they'll be able to have real-time communications with whoever they are transacting business with. How are you guys helping customers embrace and deliver real-time communications? >> Absolutely, so we were really pleased to hear Hertz give us the shout out this morning and you know our end customer is actually not Hertz. Hertz is a customer of IBM and we are helping IBM with their white label platform as a service for their UCaaS and collaboration services. And of course Hertz is transforming all of their rental car branches around the world into the cloud, using our hosted voice over IP and UCaaS services. So we're really pleased about the announcement. So when it comes to real-time communications, I mean this is, you got to think about the customer journey and we've heard this from a lot of folks. The consumer is more empowered than ever when it comes to the customer journey. Gone are the days of necessarily walking into a bricks and mortar shop, taking an hour to kind of learn about what's going on. People are making decisions like this because all the information is at the touch of their fingertips. And today it's about customer engagement and it's about making the best informed decisions as possible and customer engagement in especially the contact center is increasingly playing an important role. So we're helping customer like IBM transform their portfolios, fill in portfolio gaps where they can provide new hosting services but at the same time transform that contact center experience and really help drive new sales with engagement tools and new technologies like WebRTC and CPaaS are playing a really important role there. >> So Sacha, it's interesting you have for the most part a degree of separation between yourself and the end consumer. There's one of the press releases that caught my eye though, the scourge to the consumer today is robocalls. It's like most of all, I want to turn off my phone number because most of the calls that come through, even when it says it's somebody you think you know, often times it isn't. Can you talk about, there's an engagement that Ribbon has with a number of service providers, helping to attack this big challenge today. >> Absolutely. So we recently hosted a forum with a number of carriers coming down because there's some studies that show that upwards of 50% of calls in the next couple of years are going to be robocalls and they're annoying as heck, depending on the geography and where you live. So with our new kind of end-to-end portfolio which kind of mixes both analytics and our strategic positioning in the core and the edge. The enterprise edge as well as the core of the carrier. We're in a very strategic place to get that information, data mine it and proactively identify where we're not only getting robocalling but fraud and helping carriers and others to monetize that business and do proactive things with that data. So we have a new kind of solution coming out STIR-SHAKEN, you'll hear a little bit more about that and don't ask me to spell out that acronym. It does actually stand for something that's more technical but we're really excited about what's going on there. The robocalling industry is becoming quite annoying for a lot of folks. It's a big opportunity for us. >> Heck, John Oliver did a segment on it a couple of weeks ago. So, hopefully, your company can help solve that issue because that definitely holds us back today. >> Absolutely. >> So in terms of industry adoption, we mentioned Hertz as a customer of yours through IBM but talk to us about some of the verticals maybe that you're seeing as leading-edge. I think governments, health care, financial services. Are you really seeing those industries kind of lead in this real-time communications opportunity area? >> Absolutely, likes we like to think of ourselves more as of a horizontal player and specifically all verticals are kind of going towards frictionless real-time communications. And you know we have a great thing going on with Five 9s for example. Five 9s is a well-known Cloud contact, it's a center it's a service player and one of the things we're doing with Five 9s is they've got a bunch of end customers who are revolutionizing their contact center and so one of the things we were able to do with Five 9s for example is enable them with WebRTC services. And it was about this time last year, maybe a little bit before when WebRTC ubiquitously kind of got standardized in all the major web browsers. And what we're able to help do with Five 9s is introduce a new frictionless in context way of communicating into the contact center over WebRTC which is great for customers who want to save on the toll-free minutes. It's kind of over the top web toll-free but it's kind of in browser in context like again, contact center agents have that full contextual toolkit of engagement to be able to preserve customers and upsell and cross-sell and provide great customer service. And we're not really seeing any particular vertical that is necessarily adopting that more than the other. We like to think of ourselves as horizontal but certainly governments, financials, retails, telemedicine, we're seeing tremendous traction across all of those. >> See, oh go ahead Stu. >> Yeah I was just being in the cloud, can you talk about some of the relationships with the public cloud. No, no, there were some announcements with Microsoft, believe with Amazon also. How are you seeing, that the hyper-scale public clouds impacting your space? >> Absolutely. So you know in this day and age, you've got to be able to fire up new micro-services and new cloud services instantly and practically anywhere. And there's reasons for that. Some of that is data privacy, some of it's security, some of it's just latency and so on And you know AWS, Azure we're kind of agnostic to the public cloud infrastructure but we're pretty excited about some of their announcements. We've been working with Amazon and Microsoft Azure for some time and increasingly with IBM SoftLayer as well. And so the ability to fire up some of our piece parts or Session Border Controllers. Our WebRTC gateways up in the public cloud and able to facilitate our channel partners to go to market in rapid time. It's an important part of our strategy. With Microsoft, obviously we're one of two certified vendors and with Microsoft and Teams, you know a lot of enterprises are going towards the Teams. We're able to help carriers play in that by having those interconnects to the carriers to provide the voice services and the carrier services and fire up practically instantly in the public cloud. So we're pretty excited about some of those announcements here as well. >> And what can some folks find out and learn about in your booth here at Enterprise Connect? >> Yeah, so I think at our booth you'll see a number of key topics being highlighted. Obviously the public cloud and the Microsoft as well as some of the other public cloud announcements we've had. In addition to that, we recently acquired a company called Edgewater and so our heritage, we've been known very much as kind of a carrier SBC player of choice but we've kind of extended that to the enterprise edge with the acquisition of Edgewater. And what Edgewater provides us is kind of that Enterprise SBC, but with SD-WANs. So SD-WANs, a growing part of our story, having that end-to-end quality of service, over the top with analytics and all the protection of security and all that kind of stuff. So it's a perfect fit into our portfolio and that's another area that you'd be able to see at our booth here this year at Enterprise Connect. >> Excellent last-- >> So if I understand that, I'm sorry. So you have an SD-WAN offering, is it something we've been watching quite a bit in the multi-cloud space and a lot of movement high growth in that area? >> Absolutely. So the SD-WAN offering with the Edgewater product offers a number of key services. Obviously the disaster recovery, having multiple broadband inputs and being able to switch from an LTE to another broadband input is part of that but the analytics in the end-to-end quality of service are equally important and you know for somebody who helps run our cloud communications business, when we go deploy to folks like Hertz, putting that Edgewater CPE box on the prem is an important part of our solution to have that end-to-end visibility for things like SD-WAN but also the analytics and inevitably security and protection as well. >> As we talk about at this event the evolution of communication, the evolution of this event and collaboration, I know we're only kind of halfway through day two here but I'm just curious, any key takeaways that you have gleaned so far from the event that you're looking forward to bringing back to HQ after this event is over? >> Absolutely. You know, every year is a little bit different. There's always a buzz word or two. I think this year what I'm starting to see is there's a lot more focus on the use cases as opposed to the technology. You know in the past, you come here, you talk a lot about the three-letter acronyms, SIP and UCaaS and CPaaS and WebRTC. This year, you're seeing a lot more about how can we actually monetize the business? What are the use cases? And you know as opposed to APIs being a big part of how you get there and the focus on the how, it's more about the what, like APIs are just kind of de-facto and you need them to help mask the complexity of the network and monetize and do things like creating new digital solutions and use cases. So you know it's just an example of how people are trying to talk about things this year as well as analytics and BI. People aren't just talking about how they're doing it, they're showing you what they can do with sentiment analysis. They're showing you how proactive policy can be applied. So that's pretty cool because we're now getting into the fun part of monetizing all of this great technology investment we've made for 10 years. >> And actually showing the business outcomes that it should be delivering, >> Absolutely. >> Right? That's the need, right? >> That's right, yeah. >> Well Sacha thank you so much for stopping by the Cube and chatting with Stu and me. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> Our pleasure. >> All right. >> Thank you for watching the Cube, Lisa Martin for Stu Miniman, you're watching the Cube. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE. Covering Microsoft Ignite. Brought to you by Cohesity, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the CUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite here in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. Along with my co-host Stu Miniman. We're joined by Andrew Liu. He is the senior product manager at Azure Cosmos DB. Thanks so much for coming on the show Andrew. >> Oh, thank you for hosting. >> You're a first timer, so this will be a lot of fun. So, talk to me a little bit. Azure Cosmos DB is a database for building blazing fast planet scale applications. Can you tell our viewers a little bit about what you do and about the history of Azure Cosmos? >> Sure, so Azure Cosmos DB started with, about eight years ago, where we were also outgrowing a lot of our own database needs with what we had previously built. And a lot of the challenges that we had was really around partitioning, replication, and resource governance. So, I'll talk a little bit about each one. Partitioning is really about solving the problem of scale. Right? I have so much data, doesn't fit on a single machine, and I have so many requests per second. Also doesn't, can't be served out of a single machine. So how do I go and build a system, a database that can elastically scale over a cluster of machines, so I don't have to manually shard, and as a user have to shard a database across many, many instances. This way I really want to be able to scale just seamlessly. The velocity problem is, we also wanted to build something that, can respond in a very fast manner, in terms of latency. So, it's great and all that we can serve lots of request per second, but, what is the response time of each one of those requests? And the resource governance was there to really actually build this as a cloud native database in which we wanted to exploit the properties of our cloud. We wanted to use the economies of scale that we can have basically data centers built all around the world, and build this as a multi, truly multi-tenant service. And by doing so we can also afford the total cost of ownership for us, as well as, a guaranteed predictable performance for the tenants. Now we did this, for initially our first party tenants at Microsoft, where we have made a bet on everything from our Microsoft live platform, to Office, to Azure itself as built on Azure Cosmos DB. And about four years ago we found that hey, this is not really just a Microsoft problem that we're solving, but it's an everybody problem, it's become universal, and so we've launched it out to the open. >> Yeah, Andrew that's, great point, and I want you to help unpack that for us a little bit because you know, we've been saying on theCUBE for many years, distributed architectures are some of the toughest challenges of our time, but, if I'm a Facebook, or a Google, or a Microsoft, I understand some of the challenges, and I understand why I need it, but, when you talk about scale, well, scale means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. So, how does Cosmos? What does that mean to your users, end users, why do they need this? You know, haven't they just felt some microservices architecture? And they'll just leverage, ya know what's in Azure. And things like that. How does this global scale impact the typical user? >> So I'm actually seeing this come in different types of patterns for different types of industries. So for example, in manufacturing we're commonly seeing Cosmos DB used really for that scalability for the write scalability, and having many, many concurrent writes per second. Typically this is done in an IoT telemetry, or an IoT device registry case. So let's use one of our customers for example, Toyota. Each year they're shipping millions of vehicles on the road, and they're building a big connected car platform. The connected car platform allows you to do things like, whenever it alerts an airbag gets deployed, they can go and make sure and call their driver, hey, I saw the airbag was deployed are you okay? And if the user doesn't pick up their phone, immediately notify emergency services. But the challenge here is if each year I'm shipping millions of vehicles on the road, and each of 'em has a heartbeat every second, I'm dealing with millions of writes per second, and I need a database that can scale to that. In contrast, in retail I'm actually seeing very different use cases. They're using more of the replication side of our stock where they have a global user base, and they're trying to expand an eCommerce shop. So for example ASOS is a big fashion retailer, they ship to 200 different countries globally, and they want to make sure that they can deliver real-time experiences like real-time personalization, and based off of who the user is recommended set of products that is tailored to that user. Well now what I need is a data set that can expand to my shoppers across two different hundred, 200 countries around the globe, and deliver that with very, very low latency so that my web experience is also very robust. So what they use is our global distribution, and our multi-mastering technology. Where we can actually have a database presence, similar to like what a CDN does for static content, we're doing for our dynamic evolving content. So in a database your work load, typically your data set is evolving, and you want to be able to run queries with consistency over that. As opposed to in CDN you're typically serving static assets. Well here we can actually support those dynamic content, and then build these low latency experiences to users all around the globe. The other area we see a lot of usage is in ISV's for mission critical workloads. And the replication actually gets us two awesome properties, right? One is the low latency by shipping data closer to where the user is, but the other property you get is a lot of redundancy, and so we actually also offer industry leading SLA's where we guarantee five nines of availability, and the way we're able to do so is, with a highly redundant architecture you don't care if let's say a machine were to bomb out at any given time, because we have multiple redundant copies in different parts of the globe. You're guaranteed that your workload is always online. >> So my question for you is, when you have these, you just described some really, really interesting customer use cases in manufacturing, in retail, do you then create products and services for each of these industries? Or do you say hey other retail customers, we've noticed this really works for this customer over here, how do you go out to the community with what you're selling? >> Ah, got it. So we actually have found that this can be a challenging space for some of our customers today, 'cause we have so many products. The way we kind of view it is we want to have a portfolio, so that you can always choose the right tool for the right job. And I think a lot of how Microsoft has evolved as a business actually is around this. Previously we would sell a hammer, and we'd tell you don't worry everything's a nail, even if it looks like a screw let's just pretend it's a nail and whack it down. But today we've built this big vast toolbox, and you can think of Cosmos DB as just one of many tools in our vast toolbox. So if you have a screw maybe you pickup a screwdriver, and screw that in. And the way Azure works is then if we have a very comprehensive toolbox, depending on what precise scenario you have, you can kind of mix and match the tools that fit your problem. So think of them as like individual Lego blocks, and whether you're building like a death star, or an x-wing, you can go, and assemble the right pieces for your application. >> Andrew, some news at the show around Cosmos DB. Share us what the updates are. >> Oh sure, so we're really excited to launch a few new features. The highlights are multi-master, and Cassandra API. So multi-master really exploits the replicated nature of our database. Before multi-master what we would do is, we would allow you to have a globally distributed database in which you can have write requests go to single region, and reads being served out of any of these other locations. With multi-master we've actually made it so that each of those replicas we've deployed around the globe can also accept write requests. What that translates to from a user point of view is number one, your write requests are a lot faster, they're super low latency, single-digit millisecond latency in fact. No matter where the user is around the globe. And number two, you also get much higher write availability. So even if let's say, we're having a natural disaster, we had a nasty hurricane as you know pass through on the east coast last week, but with a globally distributed database the nice thing is even if you have, let's say, a power disruption in one region of the world, it doesn't matter cause you can then just fail over, and talk to another data center, where you have a live replica already located. So we just came out with multi-master. The short summary is low latency writes, as well as high available writes. The other feature that we launched is Cassandra API, and as you know this is a multi-model, multi-API database. What that means is, what we're trying to do is also meet our users where they are. As opposed to pushing our proprietary software on them, and we take the whole concept of vendor lock-in very, very seriously. Which is why we make such a big bet on the open source ecosystem. If you already have, let's say a MongoDB application, or a Cassandra application, but you'd really love to be able to take advantage of some of the novel properties that we've built with building a fully managed multi-master database. Well, what we've done is we've implemented this as a wire level protocol on the server side. So it can take an existing application, not change a single line of code, and point it to Cosmos DB as a back-end, and then take advantage of Cosmos DB as your database. >> One of the interesting things if you look at the kind of changing face of databases, it's how users are being able to leverage their data. You talk about everything from you know, I think Cassandra back, and some of the big data discussions, today everything's AI which I know is near and dear to Microsoft's heart. Satya Nadella I'm talking about, how do you think of the role of data in this solution set? >> Sorry, can you say that one more time? >> So, how customers think about leveraging data, how things like Cosmos allow them to really extract the value out of data, not just be some database that kind of stuck in the back-end somewhere. >> Yeah, yeah. I mean a lot of it is the new novel experiences people are building. So for example, like the connected car platform, I'm seeing people actually build this, and take advantage of new novel territories that a traditional automobile manufacturer used to not do. Not only are they building experiences around, how do they provide value to their end users? Like the air bag scenario, but they're also using this as a way of building value for their business, and how to make sure that, hey when, next time you're up for an oil change that they can send a helpful reminder, and say hey I noticed you're due for an oil change in terms of mileage. Why don't I just go set up an appointment, just up for you, as well as other experiences for things, like when they want to do fleet management, and do partnerships with either ride sharing companies like Uber, and Lyft, or rental car companies like Avis, Hertz, et cetera. I've also seen people take advantage of, taking kind of new novel experiences through databases, through AI, and machine learning. So for example, the product recommendations. This was something that historically, when I wanted to do recommendations a decade ago, maybe I have some big beefy data lake running somewhere in the back-end, it might take a week to munch through that data, but that's okay, a week later once I'm ready, I'll send out some mail, maybe some email to you, but today when I want to actually show live right when the user is browsing my website, my website has to load fast right? If my goal is to increase conversions on sales, having a slow running website is the fastest way for my user to click the back button. But if I want to build real-time personalization, and want to generate let's say a recommendation within 200 millisecond latency, well now that I have databases that can guarantee me single-digit millisecond latency, it gives me ample time to actually improve the business logic for those recommendations. >> I want to ask you a question about culture, because you are based at the mothership in Redmond, Washington. So we heard Satya Nadella on the main stage today talk about tech intensiveness, tech intensity, sorry, this idea that we need to not only be adopting technology, but also building the latest, and greatest. I'm curious about, how that translates at Microsoft's campus, and sort of how, how this idea is, infuses how you work with your colleagues, and then also how you work with your customers and partners? >> I think some of the biggest positive changes I've seen over the last decade has been how much more of a customer focus we have today then ever. And i think a lot of things have led to that. One is, just the ability to ship much faster. As we move to Cloud services we're no longer in these big box product release cycles of building a product, and waiting like one or two years to ship it to our users. But now we can actually get some real-time feedback. So as we go, and ship, and deploy software, we actually deploy even on a weekly cadence over here. What that allows us to do is actually experiment a lot more, and get real-time feedback, so if we have an idea, and rather than having to go through a long lengthy vetting process, spending years building, and hoping that it really pays off. What we can do is we can just go talk to our users, and say hey, ya know, we have an idea for our future. We'd love to get your feedback, or a lot of times honestly our customers actually come to us, where we're so tightly engaged these days, that when, users even come to us, and say like hey, what do you think about this idea? It would really add a lot of value to my scenario. We go, and try to root cause that, really get an idea of what exactly that they need. But then we can turn that around in blazing fast time. And I think a lot of the shift to Cloud services, and being able to avoid the overhead of well we got to wait for this ship train, and then wait for the right operation personnel to go and deploy the updates. Now that we can control our own destiny, and just ship on a very, very fast cadence, we're closer to our users, and we experiment a lot more, and I think it's a beautiful thing. >> Great, well Andrew thank you so much for coming on theCUBE, it was fun talking to you. >> Oh yeah, thank you for hosting. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Stu Miniman, we will have more from theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite coming up just after this. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge18. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge18. We're coming at you from The Venetian in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. I have with me Paul Webb; he is the ServiceNow Practice Lead for EY. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, Paul. >> Thanks for having me, Rebecca. >> So, before the cameras were rolling, we were talking about how, what EY's focus is, and it's not traditional IT, you're really focused on bringing ServiceNow into the business; can you talk a little bit about this? >> Yeah, that's right. >> Paul: So, traditionally ServiceNow's been seen inside the IT organization, transforming the way in which the service desk is run. But what we're finding is more and more of customers see the power of the platform and how it can be taken out into HR, customer service, and automate a lot of business process that have traditionally been manual or used by a bunch of disparate systems. So, that's been our focus and it's been very compelling to our customers and it's been very good to us. >> So, give me some examples of how, of what you're doing. What are some innovative solutions? >> Yeah, so we've got a couple of really cool ones. One is fleet car management, so we've taken a device that we've put in vehicles that then transmits back to a ServiceNow hub to give us the vehicle telemetry. So then when the vehicle comes back in from being used, someone like Hertz or Avis, anyone like that, they can then use a device to see whether the car needs a repair or a service, new tires, and then automatically trigger a work order to get that taken care of. So that's a really different use case than a traditional IT. >> Right, right, and so... How are clients, are they ready for this? Are they, you feel at this conference that there's been this pent-up exhaustion with the workplace and the way it's been structured because our consumer lives are so easy and intuitive. >> We're seeing this need for disruption sort of kicking in this year. It's like last year it was a lot of ideas, a lot of thought around the art of the possible, but now we're starting to see companies ready to embrace it, and so that change, that transformation is happening right now in 2018. >> And how are you helping them, because it's not easy, this stuff is hard, change management. >> Yeah, it's kind of great that we're such a diverse and broad company, so the fact that I can bring our customer service teams, our supply chain teams, our human resources teams, all of that consulting breadth that we have, and deep subject matter experience. We can bring that to the ServiceNow platform and then take it to a client to really transform the way in which they think about a problem. >> And what would you say are some of the best practices that have emerged, because as we've said, this is a really disruptive time for so many companies. You just talked about car industry. What would you say are the insights you've gleaned in working with clients? >> It's time to value, I think more than anything else it's getting something in the hands of the customer or the user very, very quickly. So, our typical cycle is 12 weeks from an ideation, an idea of what they want to achieve, to something they can actually touch and feel and experience. >> Rebecca: 12 weeks! >> 12 weeks, yeah. And we typically work in these 12-week delivery cycles, so that you don't end up with fatigue and design fatigue. You just get your hands on something you can touch, you can feel, you can experience, and then you can mature it from there. >> So, walk us through the process. I mean, at 12 weeks, that is stupendous. >> Yeah, first of all it's containing the scope, it's not trying to do too much all at once. We then really help the client to whiteboard what problem they want to solve, we may do something as simple as a proof of concept, or we call them hackathons, it's common here. Do that to get the ideas into an environment that they can touch, then we come up with a series of requirements that need to be in the first release, and then once we've done that, it's send it to our developers, get them to turn the crank, turn it into something that we can get in the hands, even if it's not in production, if it's not production-ready it's got to be close enough where they can say, "Yeah, we need x changed, we need y changed, we need something different." Or this is good to go, let's now evolve. >> When you're in this design process, which is messy and complicated, how are you sparking good ideas and creativity and innovation on your team? >> We find the client brings that themselves. We've got smart people, they do good things, they're young, they're innovative. But we find when we start to produce some ideas to the conversation, it rapidly sparks the same back from the client. So this collaborative approach works really well to bring everybody up to a whole new level of thinking. >> So, the tag line, the new branding for ServiceNow is making the world of work work better for people, and that is where you're focusing EY's business, too. So, what would you say should be next? What are the next employee pain points that you want to focus on with the ServiceNow platform? >> It's interesting that, it's a little less exciting, but it's this concept of the system of protection. One of the guys that works with me, Lawrence, came up with the concept of using ServiceNow as this system of protection, where we can look at things like compliance and security and risk, and use ServiceNow to help manage that, facilitate that risk. The second side is obviously the more creative, improve productivity, improve efficiency, drive more of this disruptive digital agenda into the equation. And so those two ends of the spectrum, protect the business and then innovate the business, are two prime agenda items right now. >> Finally, why would a client choose EY? What do you bring to the table? >> I think it's the breadth and depth. You know, we are a very large global company. We have a lot of really bright minds, I think 70 percent of our business is now millennials, so we've got a lot of brilliant minds that are really trying to bring new ideas, new disruptive thinking, and yet we still have that maturity and that experience across that spectrum. So, bring all that to bear on a problem for a client enables us to do some really unique things. >> Rebecca: Great, well thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, Paul. >> Thanks very much for having me, Rebecca. >> We will have more from ServiceNow Knowledge18 and theCUBE's live coverage just after this. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas it's The Cube, covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> We're back at IBM Think 2018. This is The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with my co-host Peter Burris, Moe Abdulla is here. He's the vice president of Cloud Garage and Solution Architecture Hybrid Cloud for IBM and Tim Davis is here, Data Analytics and Cloud Architecture Group and Services Center of Excellence IBM. Gentlemen, welcome to The Cube. >> Glad to be here. >> Thanks for having us. >> Moe, Garage, Cloud Garage, I'm picturing drills and wrenches, what's the story with Garage? Bring that home for us. >> (laughs) I wish it was that type of a garage. My bill would go down for sure. No, the garage is playing on the theme of the start-up, the idea of how do you bring new ideas and innovate on them, but for the enterprises. So what two people can do with pizza and innovate, how do you bring that to a larger concept. That's what The Garage is really about. >> Alright and Tim, talk about your role. >> Yeah, I lead the data and analytics field team and so we're really focused on helping companies do digital transformation and really drive digital and analytics, data, into their businesses to get better business value, accelerate time to value. >> Awesome, so we're going to get into it. You guys both have written books. We're going to get into the Field Guide and we're going to get into the Cloud Adoption Playbook, but Peter I want you to jump in here because I know you got to run, so get your questions in and then I'll take over. >> Sure I think so obvious question number one is, one of the biggest challenges we've had in analytics over the past couple of years is we had to get really good at the infrastructure and really good at the software and really good at this and really good at that and there were a lot of pilot failures because if you succeeded at one you might not have succeeded at the other. The Garage sounds like it's time to value based. Is that the right way to think about this? And what are you guys together doing to drive time to value, facilitate adoption, and get to the changes, the outcomes that the business really wants? >> So Tim you want to start? >> Yeah I can start because Moe leads the overall Garage and within the Garage we have something called the Data First Methodology where we're really driving a direct engagement with the clients where we help them develop a data strategy because most clients when they do digital transformation or really go after data, they're taking kind of a legacy approach. They're building these big monolithic data warehouses, they're doing big master data management programs and what we're really trying to do is change the paradigm and so we connect with the Data First Methodology through the Garage to get to a data strategy that's connected to the business outcome because it's what data and analytics do you need to successfully achieve what you're trying to do as a business. A lot of this is digital transformation which means you're not only changing what you're doing from a data warehouse to a data lake, but you're also accelerating the data because now we have to get into the time domain of a customer, or your customer where they may be consuming things digitally and so they're at a website, they're moving into a bank branch, they go into a social media site, maybe they're being contacted by a fintech. You've got to retain an maintain a digital relationship and that's the key. >> And The Garage itself is really playing on the same core value of it's not the big beating the small anymore, it's the fast beating the slow and so when you think of the fast beating the slow, how do you achieve fast? You really do that by three ways. So The Garage says the first way to achieve fast is to break down the problem into smaller chunks, also known as MVPs or minimum viable product. So you take a very complex problem that people are talking and over-talking and over engineering, and you really bring it down to something that has a client value, user-centered. So bring the discipline from the business side, the operation side, the developers, and we mush them together to center that. That's one way to do fast. The second way-- >> By the way, I did, worked with a client. They started calling it minimum viable outcomes. >> Yes, minimum viable outcomes means what product and there's a lot of types of these minimum viable to achieve, we're talking about four weeks, six weeks, and so on and so forth. The story of American Airlines was taking all of their kiosk systems for example and really changing them both in terms of the types of services they can deliver, so now you can recheck your flights, et cetera, within six week periods and you really, that's fast, and doing it in one terminal and then moving to others. The second way you do fast is by understanding that the change is not just technology. The change is culture, process, and so on. So when you come to The Garage, it's not like the mechanic style garage where you are sitting in the waiting room and the mechanic is fixing your car. Not at all. You really have some sort of mechanical skills and you're in there with me. That's called pair programming. That's called test-driven, these types of techniques and methodologies are proven in the industry. So Tim will sit right next to me and we'll code together. By the time Tim goes back to his company, he's now an expert on how to do it. So fast is achieving the cultural transformation as well as this minimum viable aspect. >> Hands on, and you guys are actually learning from each in that experience, aren't you? >> Absolutely. >> Oh yeah. >> And then sharing, yeah. >> I would also say I would think that there's one more thing for both of you guys and that is increasingly as business acknowledges that data is an asset unlike traditional systems approaches where we built a siloed application, this server, that database manager, this data model, that application and then we do some integration at some point in time, when you start with this garage approach, data-centric approach, figure out how that works, now you have an asset that can be reused in a lot of new and interesting ways. Does that also factor into this from a speed aspect? >> Yeah it does. And this is a key part. We have something called data science experience now and we're really driving pilots through The Garage, through the data first method to get that rapid engagement and the goal is to do sprints, to do 12 to 20 week kind of sprints where we actually produce a business outcome that you show to the business and then you put it into production and we're actually developing algorithms and other things as we go that are part of the analytic result and that's kind of the key and behind that, you know the analytic result is really the, kind of the icing on the cake and the business value where you connect, but there's a whole foundation underneath that of data and that's why we do a data topology and the data topology has kind of replaced the data lake, replaces all that modeling because now we can have a data topology that spans on premise, private cloud, and public cloud and we can drive an integrated strategy with the governance program over that to actually support the data analytics that you're trying to drive and that's how we get at that. >> But that topology's got to tie back to the attributes of the data, right? Not the infrastructure that's associated with it. >> It does and the idea of the topology is you may have an existing warehouse. That becomes a zone in the topology, so we aren't really ripping and replacing, we're augmenting, you know, so we may augment an on premise warehouse that may sit in a relational database technology with a Hadoop environment that we can spin up in the cloud very rapidly and then the data science applications and so we can have a discovery zone as well as the traditional structured reporting and the level of data quality can be mixed. You may do analytic discovery against raw data versus where you have highly processed data where we have extreme data quality for regulatory reporting. >> Compared to a god box where everything goes through some pipe into that box. >> And you put in on later. >> Yes. >> Well and this is the, when Hadoop came out, right, people thought they were going to dump all their data into Hadoop and something beautiful was going to happen right? And what happened is everybody created a lot of data swamps out there. >> Something really ugly happened. >> Right, right, it's just a pile of data. >> Well they ended up with a cheaper data warehouse. >> But it's not because that data warehouse was structured, it has-- >> Dave: Yeah and data quality. >> All the data modeling, but all that stuff took massive amounts of time. When you just dump it into a Hadoop environment you have no structure, you have to discover the structures so we're really doing all the things we used to do with data warehousing only we're doing it in incremental, agile, faster method where you can also get access to the data all the way through it. >> Yeah that makes sense. >> You know it's not like we will serve new wine before its time, you know you can. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> You know, now you can eat the grapes, you can drink the wine as it's fermenting, and you can-- >> No wrong or right, just throw it in and figure it out. >> There's an image that Tim chose that the idea of a data lake is this organized library with books, but the reality is a library with all the books dumped in the middle and go find the book that you want. >> Peter: And no Dewey Decimal. >> And, exactly. And if you want to pick on the idea that you had earlier, when you look at that type of a solution, the squad structure is changing. To solve that particular problem you no longer just have your data people on one side. You have a data person, you have the business person that's trying to distill it, you have the developer, you have the operator, so the concept of DevOps to try and synchronize between these two players is now really evolved and this is the first time you're hearing it, right at The Cube. It's the Biz Data DevOps. That's the new way we actually start to tell this. >> Dave: Explain that, explain that to us. >> Very simple. It starts with business requirements. So the business reflects the user and the consumer and they come with not just generics, they come with very specific requirements that then automatically and immediately says what are the most valuable data sources I need either from my enterprise or externally? Because the minute I understand those requirements and the persistence of those requirements, I'm now shaping the way the solution has to be implemented. Data first, not data as an afterthought. That's why we call it the data first method. The developers then, when they're building the cloud infrastructure, they really understand the type of resilience, the type of compliance, the type of meshing that you need to do and they're doing it from the outside. And because of the fact that they're dealing with data, the operation people automatically understand that they have to deal with the right to recovery and so on and so forth. So now we're having this. >> Makes sense. You're not throwing it over the wall. >> Exactly. >> That's where the DevOps piece comes in. >> And you're also understanding the velocity of data, through the enterprise as well as the gaps that you have as an enterprise because you're, when you go into a digital world you have to accumulate a lot more data and then you have to be able to match that and you have to be able to do identity resolution to get to a customer to understand all the dimensions of it. >> Well in the digital world, data is the core, so and it's interesting what you were saying Moe about essentially the line of business identifying the data sources because they're the ones who know how data affects monetization. >> Yes. >> Inder Paul Mendari, when he took over as IBM Chief Data Officer, said you must from partnerships with the line of business in order to understand how to monetize, how data contributes to the monetization and your DevOps metaphor is very important because everybody is sort of on the same page is the idea right? >> That's right. >> And there's a transformation here because we're working very close with Inder Paul's team and the emergence of a Chief Data Officer in many enterprises and we actually kind of had a program that we still have going from last year which is kind of the Chief Data Officer success program where you can help get at this because the classic IT structure has kind of started to fail because it's not data oriented, it's technology oriented, so by getting to a data oriented organization and having a elevated Chief Data Officer, you can get aligned with the line of business, really get your hands on the data and we prescribe the data topology, which is actually the back cover of that book, shows an example of one, because that's the new center of the universe. The technologies can change, this data can live on premise or in the cloud, but the topology should only change when your business changes-- (drowned out) >> This is hugely important so I want to pick up on something Ginny Rometti was talking about yesterday was incumbent disruptors. And when I heard that I'm like, come on no way. You know, instant skeptic. >> Tim: And that's what, that's what it is. >> Right and so then I started-- >> Moe: Wait, wait, discover. >> To think about it and you guys, what you're describing is how you take somebody, a company, who's been organized around human expertise and other physical assets for years, decades, maybe hundreds of years and transform them into a data oriented company-- >> Tim: Exactly. >> Where data is the core asset and human expertise is surrounding that data and learn to say look, it's not an, most data's in silos. You're busting down those silos. >> Exactly. >> And giving the prescription to do that. >> Exactly, yeah exactly. >> I think that's what Tim actually said this very, you heard us use the word re-prescriptive. You heard us use the word methodology, data first method or The Garage method and what we're really starting to see is these patterns from enterprises. You know, what works for a startup does not necessarily translate easily for an enterprise. You have to make it work in the context of the existing baggage, the existing processes, the existing culture. >> Customer expectations. >> Expectations, the scale, all of those type dimensions. So this particular notion of a prescription is we're taking the experiences from Hertz, Marriott, American Airlines, RVs, all of these clients that really have made that leap and got the value and essentially started to put it in the simple framework, seven elements to those frameworks, and that's in the adoption, yeah. >> You're talking this, right? >> Yeah. >> So we got two documents here, the Cloud Adoption Playbook, which Moe you authored, co-authored. >> Moe: With Tim's help. >> Tim as well and then this Field Guide, the IBM Data and Analytic Strategy Field Guide that Tim you also contributed to this right? >> Yeah, I wrote some of it yeah. >> Which augments the book, so I'll give you the description of it too. >> Well I love the hybrid cloud data topology in the back. >> That's an example of a topology on the back. >> So that's kind of cool. But go ahead, let's talk about these. >> So if you look at the cover of that book and piece of art, very well drawn. That's right. You will see that there are seven elements. You start to see architecture, you start to see culture and organization, you start to see methodology, you start to see all of these different components. >> Dave: Governance, management, security, emerging tech. >> That's right, that really are important in any type of transformation. And then when you look at the data piece, that's a way of taking that data and applying all of these dimensions, so when a client comes forward and says, "Look, I'm having a data challenge "in the sense of how do I transform access, "how do I share data, how to I monetize?," we start to take them through all of these dimensions and what we've been able to do is to go back to our starting comment, accelerate the transformation, sorry. >> And the real engagement that we're getting pulled into now in many cases and getting pulled right up the executive chains at these companies is data strategy because this is kind of the core, you've got to, so many companies have a business strategy, very good business strategies, but then you ask for their data strategy, they show you some kind of block diagram architecture or they show you a bunch of servers and the data center. You know, that's not a strategy. The data strategy really gets at the sources and consumption, velocity of data, and gaps in the data that you need to achieve your business outcome. And so by developing a data strategy, this opens up the patterns and the things that we talk to. So now we look at data security, we look at data management, we look at governance, we look at all the aspects of it to actually lay this out. And another thought here, the other transformation is in data warehousing, we've been doing this for the past, some of us longer than others, 20 or 30 years, right? And our whole thing then was we're going to align the silos by dumping all the data into this big data warehouse. That is really not the path to go because these things became like giant dinosaurs, big monolithic difficult to change. The data lake concept is you leave the data where it is and you establish a governance and management process over top of it and then you augment it with things like cloud, like Hadoop, like other things where we can rapidly spin up and we're taking advantage of things like object stores and advanced infrastructures and this is really where Moe and I connect with our IBM Club private platforms, with our data capabilities, because we can now put together managed solutions for some of these major enterprises and even show them the road map and that's really that road map. >> It's critical in that transformation. Last word, Moe. >> Yeah, so to me I think the exciting thing about this year, versus when we spoke last year, is the maturity curve. You asked me this last year, you said, "Moe where are we on the maturity curve of adoption?" And I think the fact that we're talking today about data strategies and so on is a reflection of how people have matured. >> Making progress. >> Earlier on, they really start to think about experimenting with ideas. We're now starting to see them access detailed deep information about approaches and methodologies to do it and the key word for us this year was not about experimentation or trial, it's about acceleration. >> Exactly. >> Because they've proven it in that garage fashion in small places, now I want to do it in the American Airlines scale, I want to do it at the global scale. >> Exactly. >> And I want, so acceleration is the key theme of what we're trying to do here. >> What a change from 15, 20 years ago when the deep data warehouse was the single version of the truth. It was like snake swallowing a basketball. >> Tim: Yeah exactly, that's a good analogy. >> And you had a handful of people who actually knew how to get in there and you had this huge asynchronous process to get insights out. Now you guys have a very important, in a year you've made a ton of progress, yea >> It's democratization of data. Everyone should, yeah. >> So guys, really exciting, I love the enthusiasm. Congratulations. A lot more work to do, a lot more companies to affect, so we'll be watching. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you very much. >> And make sure you read our book. (Tim laughs) >> Yeah definitely, read these books. >> They'll be a quiz after. >> Cloud Adoption Playbook and IBM Data and Analytic Strategy Field Guide. Where can you get these? I presume on your website? >> On Amazon, you can get these on Amazon. >> Oh you get them on Amazon, great. Okay, good. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks guys, appreciate it. >> Alright, thank you. >> Keep it right there everybody, this is The Cube. We're live from IBM Think 2018 and we'll be right back. (upbeat electronic music)