(bright music) >> Welcome back everyone. theCube's live coverage here. Day two, of two sets, three days of theCube coverage here at VMware Explore. This is our 12th year covering VMware's annual conference, formerly called VM World. I'm John Furrier, with Dave Vellante. We'd love seeing the progress and we've got great security comes Tom Gill, senior vices, president general manager, networking and advanced security business group at VMware. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks. for having me. >> Yeah, really happy we could have you on. >> I think this is my sixth edition on the theCube. Do I get frequent flyer points or anything? >> Yeah. >> You first get the VIP badge. We'll make that happen. You can start getting credits. >> Okay, there we go. >> We won't interrupt you. Seriously, you got a great story in security here. The security story is kind of embedded everywhere, so it's not called out and blown up and talked specifically about on stage. It's kind of in all the narratives in the VM World for this year. But you guys have an amazing security story. So let's just step back and to set context. Tell us the security story for what's going on here at VMware and what that means to this supercloud, multi-cloud and ongoing innovation with VMware. >> Yeah, sure thing. So probably the first thing I'll point out is that security's not just built in at VMware. It's built differently. So, we're not just taking existing security controls and cut and pasting them into our software. But we can do things because of our platform, because of the virtualization layer that you really can't do with other security tools. And where we're very, very focused is what we call lateral security or East-West movement of an attacker. 'Cause frankly, that's the name of the game these days. Attackers, you've got to assume that they're already in your network. Already assume that they're there. Then how do we make it hard for them to get to the stuff that you really want? Which is the data that they're going after. And that's where we really should. >> All right. So we've been talking a lot, coming into VMware Explore, and here, the event. About two things. Security, as a state. >> Yeah. >> I'm secure right now. >> Yeah. >> Or I think I'm secure right now, even though someone might be in my network or in my environment. To the notion of being defensible. >> Yeah. >> Meaning I have to defend and be ready at a moment's notice to attack, fight, push back, red team, blue team. Whatever you're going to call it. But something's happening. I got to be able to defend. >> Yeah. So what you're talking about is the principle of Zero Trust. When I first started doing security, the model was we have a perimeter. And everything on one side of the perimeter is dirty, ugly, old internet. And everything on this side, known good, trusted. What could possibly go wrong. And I think we've seen that no matter how good you make that perimeter, bad guys find a way in. So Zero Trust says, you know what? Let's just assume they're already in. Let's assume they're there. How do we make it hard for them to move around within the infrastructure and get to the really valuable assets? 'Cause for example, if they bust into your laptop, you click on a link and they get code running on your machine. They might find some interesting things on your machine. But they're not going to find 250 million credit cards. >> Right. >> Or the script of a new movie or the super secret aircraft plans. That lives in a database somewhere. And so it's that movement from your laptop to that database. That's where the damage is done and that's where VMware shines. >> So if they don't have the right to get to that database, they're not in. >> And it's not even just the right. So they're so clever and so sneaky that they'll steal a credential off your machine, go to another machine, steal a credential off of that. So, it's like they have the key to unlock each one of these doors. And we've gotten good enough where we can look at that lateral movement, even though it has a credential and a key, we're like wait a minute. That's not a real CIS Admin making a change. That's ransomware. And that's where you. >> You have to earn your way in. >> That's right. That's right. Yeah. >> And we're all kinds of configuration errors. But also some user problems. I've heard one story where there's so many passwords and username and passwords and systems that the bad guys scour, the dark web for passwords that have been exposed. >> Correct. >> And go test them against different accounts. Oh one hit over here. >> Correct. >> And people don't change their passwords all the time. >> Correct. >> That's a known vector. >> Just the idea that users are going to be perfect and never make a mistake. How long have we been doing this? Humans are the weakest link. So people are going to make mistakes. Attackers are going to be in. Here's another way of thinking about it. Remember log4j? Remember that whole fiasco? Remember that was at Christmas time. That was nine months ago. And whoever came up with that vulnerability, they basically had a skeleton key that could access every network on the planet. I don't know if a single customer that said, "Oh yeah, I wasn't impacted by log4j." So here's some organized entity had access to every network on the planet. What was the big breach? What was that movie script that got stolen? So there wasn't one, right? We haven't heard anything. So the point is, the goal of attackers is to get in and stay in. Imagine someone breaks into your house, steals your laptop and runs. That's a breach. Imagine someone breaks into your house and stays for nine months. It's untenable, in the real world, right? >> Right. >> We don't know in there, hiding in the closet. >> They're still in. >> They're watching everything. >> Hiding in your closet, exactly. >> Moving around, nibbling on your cookies. >> Drinking your beer. >> Yeah. >> So let's talk about how this translates into the new reality of cloud-native. Because now you hear about automated pentesting is a new hot thing right now. You got antivirus on data is hot within APIs, for instance. >> Yeah. >> API security. So all kinds of new hot areas. Cloud-native is very iterative. You know, you can't do a pentest every week. >> Right. >> You got to do it every second. >> So this is where it's going. It's not so much simulation. It's actually real testing. >> Right. Right. >> How do you view that? How does that fit into this? 'cause that seems like a good direction to me. >> Yeah. If it's right in, and you were talking to my buddy, Ahjay, earlier about what VMware can do to help our customers build cloud native applications with Tanzu. My team is focused on how do we secure those applications? So where VMware wants to be the best in the world is securing these applications from within. Looking at the individual piece parts and how they talk to each other and figuring out, wait a minute, that should never happen. By almost having an x-ray machine on the innards of the application. So we do it for both for VMs and for container based applications. So traditional apps are VM based. Modern apps are container based. And we have a slightly different insertion mechanism. It's the same idea. So for VMs, we do it with a hypervisor with NSX. We see all the inner workings. In a container world we have this thing called a service mesh that lets us look at each little snippet of code and how they talk to each other. And once you can see that stuff, then you can actually apply. It's almost like common sense logic of like, wait a minute. This API is giving back credit card numbers and it gives five an hour. All of a sudden, it's now asking for 20,000 or a million credit cards. That doesn't make any sense. The anomalies stick out like a sore thumb. If you can see them. At VMware, our unique focus in the infrastructure is that we can see each one of these little transactions and understand the conversation. That's what makes us so good at that East-West or lateral security. >> You don't belong in this room, get out or that that's some weird call from an in memory database, something over here. >> Exactly. Where other security solutions won't even see that. It's not like there algorithms aren't as good as ours or better or worse. It's the access to the data. We see the inner plumbing of the app and therefore we can protect the app from. >> And there's another dimension that I want to get in the table here. 'Cause to my knowledge only AWS, Google, I believe Microsoft and Alibaba and VMware have this. >> Correct >> It's Nitro. The equivalent of a Nitro. >> Yes. >> Project Monterey. >> Yeah. >> That's unique. It's the future of computing architectures. Everybody needs a Nitro. I've written about this. >> Yeah. >> Right. So explain your version. >> Yeah. >> It's now real. >> Yeah. >> It's now in the market, right? >> Yeah. >> Or soon will be. >> Here's our mission. >> Salient aspects. >> Yeah. Here's our mission of VMware. Is that we want to make every one of our enterprise customers. We want their private cloud to be as nimble, as agile, as efficient as the public cloud. >> And secure. >> And secure. In fact, I'll argue, we can make it actually more secure because we're thinking about putting security everywhere in this infrastructure. Not just on the edges of it. Okay. How do we go on that journey? As you pointed out, the public cloud providers realized five years ago that the right way to build computers was not just a CPU and a graphics process unit, GPU. But there's this third thing that the industry's calling a DPU, data processing unit. And so there's kind of three pieces of a computer. And the DPU is sometimes called a Smartnic. It's the network interface card. It does all that network handling and analytics and it takes it off the CPU. So they've been building and deploying those systems themselves. That's what Nitro is. And so we have been working with the major Silicon vendors to bring that architecture to everybody. So with vSphere 8, we have the ability to take the network processing, that East-West inspection I talked about, take it off of the CPU and put it into this dedicated processing element called the DPU and free up the CPU to run the applications that Ahjay and team are building. >> So no performance degradation at all? >> Correct. To CPU offload. >> So even the opposite, right? I mean you're running it basically Bare Metal speeds. >> Yes, yes and yes. >> And you're also isolating the storage from the security, the management, and. >> There's an isolation angle to this, which is that firewall, that we're putting everywhere. Not just that the perimeter, but we put it in each little piece of the server is running when it runs on one of these DPUs it's a different memory space. So even if an attacker gets to root in the OS, they it's very, very, never say never, but it's very difficult. >> So who has access to that resource? >> Pretty much just the infrastructure layer, the cloud provider. So it's Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and the enterprise. >> Application can't get in. >> Can't get in there. Cause you would've to literally bridge from one memory space to another. Never say never, but it would be very. >> But it hasn't earned the trust to get. >> It's more than barbwire. It's multiple walls. >> Yes. And it's like an air gap. It puts an air gap in the server itself so that if the server is compromised, it's not going to get into the network. Really powerful. >> What's the big thing that you're seeing with this supercloud transition. We're seeing multi-cloud and this new, not just SaaS hosted on the cloud. >> Yeah. >> You're seeing a much different dynamic of, combination of large scale CapEx, cloud-native, and then now cloud-native drills on premises and edge. Kind of changing what a cloud looks like if the cloud's on a cloud. >> Yeah. >> So we're the customer, I'm building on a cloud and I have on premise stuff. So, I'm getting scale CapEx relief from the hyperscalers. >> I think there's an important nuance on what you're talking about. Which is in the early days of the cloud customers. Remember those first skepticism? Oh, it'll never work. Oh, that's consumer grade. Oh, that's not really going to work. Oh some people realize. >> It's not secure. >> Yeah. It's not secure. >> That one's like, no, no, no it's secure. It works. And it's good. So then there was this sort of over rush. Let's put everything on the cloud. And I had a lot of customers that took VM based applications said, I'm going to move those onto the cloud. You got to take them all apart, put them on the cloud and put them all back together again. And little tiny details like changing an IP address. It's actually much harder than it looks. So my argument is, for existing workloads for VM based workloads, we are VMware. We're so good at running VM based workloads. And now we run them on anybody's cloud. So whether it's your east coast data center, your west coast data center, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Alibaba, IBM keep going. We pretty much every. >> And the benefit of the customer is what. >> You can literally VMotion and just pick it up and move it from private to public, public to private, private to public, Back and forth. >> Remember when we called Vmotion BS, years ago? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> VMotion is powerful. >> We were very skeptical. We're like, that'll never happen. I mean we were. This supposed to be pat ourselves on the back. >> Well because alchemy. It seems like what you can't possibly do that. And now we do it across clouds. So it's not quite VMotion, but it's the same idea. You can just move these things over. I have one customer that had a production data center in the Ukraine. Things got super tense, super fast and they had to go from their private cloud data center in the Ukraine, to a public cloud data center out of harm's way. They did it over a weekend. 48 hours. If you've ever migrated a data center, that's usually six months. Right. And a lot of heartburn and a lot of angst. Boop. They just drag and dropped and moved it on over. That's the power of what we call the cloud operating model. And you can only do this when all your infrastructures defined in software. If you're relying on hardware, load balancers, hardware, firewalls, you can't move those. They're like a boat anchor. You're stuck with them. And by the way, they're really, really expensive. And by the way, they eat a lot of power. So that was an architecture from the 90's. In the cloud operating model your data center. And this comes back to what you were talking about is just racks and racks of X86 with these magic DPUs, or smart nics, to make any individual node go blisteringly fast and do all the functions that you used to do in network appliances. >> We just had Ahjay taking us to school, and everyone else to school on applications, middleware, abstraction layer. And Kit Culbert was also talking about this across cloud. We're talking supercloud, super pass. If this continues to happen, which we would think it will happen. What does the security posture look like? It feels to me, and again, this is your wheelhouse. If supercloud happens with this kind of past layer where there's vMotioning going on. All kinds of spanning applications and data across environments. >> Yeah. Assume there's an operating system working on behind the scenes. >> Right. >> What's the security posture in all this? >> Yeah. So remember my narrative about the bad guys are getting in and they're moving around and they're so sneaky that they're using legitimate pathways. The only way to stop that stuff, is you've got to understand it at what we call Layer 7. At the application layer. Trying to do security to the infrastructure layer. It was interesting 20 years ago, kind of less interesting 10 years ago. And now it's becoming irrelevant because the infrastructure is oftentimes not even visible. It's buried in some cloud provider. So Layer 7 understanding, application awareness, understanding the APIs and reading the content. That's the name of the game in security. That's what we've been focused on. Nothing to do with the infrastructure. >> And where's the progress bar on that paradigm. One to ten. Ten being everyone's doing it. >> Right now. Well, okay. So we as a vendor can do this today. All the stuff I talked about, reading APIs, understanding the individual services looking at, Hey, wait a minute this credit card anomalies, that's all shipping production code. Where is it in customer adoption life cycle? Early days 10%. So there's a whole lot of headroom for people to understand, Hey, I can put these controls in place. They're software based. They don't require appliances. It's Layer 7, so it has contextual awareness and it's works on every single cloud. >> We talked about the pandemic being an accelerator. It really was a catalyst to really rethink. Remember we used to talk about Pat as a security do over. He's like, yes, if it's the last thing I do, I'm going to fix security. Well, he decided to go try to fix Intel instead. >> He's getting some help from the government. >> But it seems like CISOs have totally rethought their security strategy. And at least in part, as a function of the pandemic. >> When I started at VMware four years ago, Pat sat me down in his office and he said to me what he said to you, which is like, "Tom," he said, "I feel like we have fundamentally changed servers. We fundamentally change storage. We fundamentally change networking. The last piece of the puzzle of security. I want you to go fundamentally change it." And I'll argue that the work that we're doing with this horizontal security, understanding the lateral movement. East- West inspection. It fundamentally changes how security works. It's got nothing to do with firewalls. It's got nothing to do with Endpoint. It's a unique capability that VMware is uniquely suited to deliver on. And so Pat, thanks for the mission. We delivered it and it's available now. >> Those WET web applications firewall for instance are around, I mean. But to your point, the perimeter's gone. >> Exactly. >> And so you got to get, there's no perimeter. so it's a surface area problem. >> Correct. And access. And entry. >> Correct. >> They're entering here easy from some manual error, or misconfiguration or bad password that shouldn't be there. They're in. >> Think about it this way. You put the front door of your house, you put a big strong door and a big lock. That's a firewall. Bad guys come in the window. >> And then the windows open. With a ladder. >> Oh my God. Cause it's hot, bad user behavior trumps good security every time. >> And then they move around room to room. We're the room to room people. We see each little piece of the thing. Wait, that shouldn't happen. Right. >> I want to get you a question that we've been seeing and maybe we're early on this or it might be just a false data point. A lot of CSOs and we're talking to are, and people in industry in the customer environment are looking at CISOs and CSOs, two roles. Chief information security officer, and then chief security officer. Amazon, actually Steven Schmidt is now CSO at Reinforce. They actually called that out. And the interesting point that he made, we had some other situations that verified this, is that physical security is now tied to online, to your point about the service area. If I get a password, I still got the keys to the physical goods too. >> Right. So physical security, whether it's warehouse for them or store or retail. Digital is coming in there. >> Yeah. So is there a CISO anymore? Is it just CSO? What's the role? Or are there two roles you see that evolving? Or is that just circumstance. >> I think it's just one. And I think that the stakes are incredibly high in security. Just look at the impact that these security attacks are having on. Companies get taken down. Equifax market cap was cut 80% with a security breach. So security's gone from being sort of a nuisance to being something that can impact your whole kind of business operation. And then there's a whole nother domain where politics get involved. It determines the fate of nations. I know that sounds grand, but it's true. And so companies care so much about it they're looking for one leader, one throat to choke. One person that's going to lead security in the virtual domain, in the physical domain, in the cyber domain, in the actual. >> I mean, you mention that, but I mean, you look at Ukraine. I mean that cyber is a component of that war. I mean, it's very clear. I mean, that's new. We've never seen. this. >> And in my opinion, the stuff that we see happening in the Ukraine is small potatoes compared to what could happen. >> Yeah. >> So the US, we have a policy of strategic deterrence. Where we develop some of the most sophisticated cyber weapons in the world. We don't use them. And we hope never to use them. Because our adversaries, who could do stuff like, I don't know, wipe out every bank account in North America. Or turn off the lights in New York City. They know that if they were to do something like that, we could do something back. >> This is the red line conversation I want to go there. So, I had this discussion with Robert Gates in 2016 and he said, "We have a lot more to lose." Which is really your point. >> So this brand. >> I agree that there's to have freedom and liberty, you got to strike back with divorce. And that's been our way to balance things out. But with cyber, the red line, people are already in banks. So they're are operating below the red line line. Red line meaning before we know you're in there. So do we move the red line down because, hey, Sony got hacked. The movie. Because they don't have their own militia. >> Yeah. >> If their were physical troops on the shores of LA breaking into the file cabinets. The government would've intervened. >> I agree with you that it creates tension for us in the US because our adversaries don't have the clear delineation between public and private sector. Here you're very, very clear if you're working for the government. Or you work for an private entity. There's no ambiguity on that. >> Collaboration, Tom, and the vendor community. I mean, we've seen efforts to try to. >> That's a good question. >> Monetize private data and private reports. >> So at VMware, I'm very proud of the security capabilities we've built. But we also partner with people that I think of as direct competitors. We've got firewall vendors and Endpoint vendors that we work with and integrate. And so coopetition is something that exists. It's hard. Because when you have these kind of competing. So, could we do more? Of course we probably could. But I do think we've done a fair amount of cooperation, data sharing, product integration, et cetera. And as the threats get worse, you'll probably see us continue to do more. >> And the government is going to trying to force that too. >> And the government also drives standards. So let's talk about crypto. Okay. So there's a new form of encryption coming out called processing quantum. >> Quantum. Quantum computers have the potential to crack any crypto cipher we have today. That's bad. Okay. That's not good at all because our whole system is built around these private communications. So the industry is having conversations about crypto agility. How can we put in place the ability to rapidly iterate the ciphers in encryption. So, when the day quantum becomes available, we can change them and stay ahead of these quantum people. >> Well, didn't NIST just put out a quantum proof algo that's being tested right now by the community? >> There's a lot of work around that. Correct. And NIST is taking the lead on this, but Google's working on it. VMware's working on it. We're very, very active in how do we keep ahead of the attackers and the bad guys? Because this quantum thing is a, it's an x-ray machine. It's like a dilithium crystal that can power a whole ship. It's a really, really, really powerful tool. >> Bad things will happen. >> Bad things could happen. >> Well, Tom, great to have you on the theCube. Thanks for coming on. Take the last minute to just give a plug for what's going on for you here at VMWorld this year, just VMware Explore this year. >> Yeah. We announced a bunch of exciting things. We announced enhancements to our NSX family, with our advanced load balancer. With our edge firewall. And they're all in service of one thing, which is helping our customers make their private cloud like the public cloud. So I like to say 0, 0, 0. If you are in the cloud operating model, you have zero proprietary appliances. You have zero tickets to launch a workload. You have zero network taps and Zero Trust built into everything you do. And that's what we're working on. Pushing that further and further. >> Tom Gill, senior vices president, head of the networking at VMware. Thanks for coming on. We do appreciate it. >> Thanks for having us. >> Always getting the security data. That's killer data and security of the two ops that get the most conversations around DevOps and Cloud Native. This is The theCube bringing you all the action here in San Francisco for VMware Explore 2022. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Thanks for watching. (bright music)

>> Welcome back to the cubes, ongoing coverage of VMworld 2021 the second year in a row. We've done this virtually. My name is Dave Volante and long time VMware technologist and new CTO kit Colbert is here. Kit welcome good to see you again. >> Thanks Dave, super excited to be here. >> So let's talk about your new role, you've been at VMware. You've touched all the bases, so to speak and, you know, love the career evolution, you're ready for this job. So tell us about that role. >> Well, I hope so. I don't know. It's definitely a big step up been here at VMware for 18 years now, which if you're not Silicon valley, you know, that's a long time. It's probably like four or five normal Silicon valley lifetime in terms of stints at a company. But I love it. I love the company, I love the culture. I love the technology and I'm super passionate, super excited about it. And so, you know, the, the new role previously, I was CTO for one of our business groups and focused on a specific set of our products and services. But now as the corporate CTO, I really am overseeing all of VMware, R and D. In the sense of really trying to drive a whole bunch of core engineering transformations, right? Where we've talked a lot about our shift toward becoming a SAS company. So, you know, a cloud services company. And so there's a lot of changes. We got to make internally, technologies, platform services we need to build out, you know, the, the sort of culture aspects of it again. And so, you know, I'm kind of sitting at the center of that and it's, I'll be honest, it's big, there's a lot of stuff to go and do, but I am just super excited about it. Wake up every day, really excited to meet a whole bunch of new people across the organization and to learn all the cool things we're doing, it's just, well, you know, I'll say it again, like the level of innovation happening inside of VMware is just insane. And it's really cool now that I get kind of more of a front and center road to see everything that's happening. >> Well and when I was preparing for the interview with Ragu, I was thinking about, you know, I've been following VMware for a long time, and I sort of noted that it's like the fourth wave of executive management and sort of went back and said, okay, yes, we know it started with, you know, workstation. Okay, fine. But then really quickly went into really changing the way in which we think about servers, server utilization and driving. I remember the first time I ever saw a demo, I said, wow, this is going to be completely game changing. And really, and then, and then thought about the era of the software defined data center, fine tuning the cloud strategy. And then this explosion of innovation, whether it was the sort of NSX piece, the acquisitions you've made around security, again, more cloud expansion. And now you're laying out sort of this Switzerland from multi-cloud combined with this as you're pointing out this as a service model. So when you think about the technical vision of the company transforming into a cloud and subscription model, what does that mean from a sort of architectural standpoint or a mindset perspective? >> Oh yeah. Both great questions, both sort of key focus areas for me. And by the way, it's something I've been thinking about for quite a while, right? Yeah so you're right. Like we are on our third or fourth lap of the track depending on, on how you count. But I also think that this one that this notion of getting into multicloud of becoming a real cloud services company is going to be probably the biggest one for us. And the biggest transformation that we're going to have to make. You know, we, we did extend from core compute virtualization to network and storage, but the software defined data center. But now these things I think are a bit more fundamental. So, you know, how are we thinking about it? But we're thinking about it in a few different ways. I do think, as you mentioned, the mindset is definitely the most important thing. This notion that, you know, we no longer really have product teams purely. They should be thinking of themselves as service teams and the idea being that they are operating and accountable for the availability of their cloud service. And so this means we really need to step up our game. We have in terms of the types of tooling that we built, but really it's about getting these developers engaged with that, to know that, hey, like what matters most of all right now is that service availability. In addition to things like security compliance, et cetera, but we have monitoring systems to tell you, hey, there's a problem. And that you need to go jump on those things immediately. This is not like, you know, a normal bug that comes in, oh, I'll get to it tomorrow or whatever. It's like, no, no, no, you got to step up and really get there immediately. And so there is that big mindset shift. That's something we've been driving the past few years, but we need to continue to push there. And as part of that, you know, the other thing we're doing is that what we've seen is that a lot of our individual teams have gone out and build like really great cloud services. But what we really want to build to enable us to accelerate that is a platform, a true SaaS platform and leveraging all these great capabilities that we have to help all of our teams go faster. So it gets to things like standardization and really raising the bar across the board to allow all these teams to focus on what makes their products or services unique and differentiated rather than, you know, just doing the basic blocking and tackling. So those are a couple of things I'm really focused on both driving the mindset shift. You know, I think when I, you know, as I was taking on this role, I did a lot of reading on other CTOs and, you know, how do they view their roles within their companies? And one of the things I did hear there was that the CTO is kind of the I dunno, the keeper is the right word, but the keeper of the engineering culture, right. That you want to really be a steward for that to help take it forward in the right sort of directions that align with the strategic direction of the business. And so that's a big aspect for what I'm thinking about. And the second one, the SAS platform, one of the really interesting things about this reorg that we've done internally is that traditionally CTO has kind of focused, you know, outbound, maybe a little bit inbound, but typically don't have large engineering organizations, but here what we want to do, because this, this SAS platform is so important to us. We did centralize it within the office of the CTO. And so now, you know, my customers from an engineering standpoint are all the internal business units. So a lot of really big changes inside VMware, but I think this is the sort of stuff we need to do to help us really accelerate toward the multi-cloud vision that we're painting. >> Well, VMware has always had a super strong engineering culture. And I like the way you phrase that the steward of the engineering culture, when you think about a product mindset, when, of course correct me, if I'm off here, but when you're building a product and you're making that thing rock solid, you want more rich to talk about the hardened top, and so it seems to me that the services mindset expands the mind a little bit in terms of what other services can I integrate to make my service better. Whether that's a machine intelligence service or a security service, or, you know, the dozens of other services that you guys are now building the combination of that innovation is, has like a step function and a lever on top of the sort of traditional product mindset. >> Yeah, there is, I think you're absolutely right. There's a ton of like really fundamental mental mindset shifts, right? That are a part of that. And the integration piece, you mentioned super critical, but I also think it's, it's actually taking a step back and looking at the life cycle more holistically when you're thinking about a product you're thinking about, okay, I get the bits together, I'm going to ship it out, but then it's really up to the customer to go deploy that, to operate it and, you know, deal with problems and bugs that come up. And when you're delivering a cloud service, those are all problems that you, as the application creator have to deal with. And so you got to be on top of all those things. And, you know, if you design something in such a way that it becomes kind of hard to bug it runtime, well, that's going to directly impact your availability that might have, you know, contractual obligations with an SLA impact to a customer. So there's some really big implications there that I think traditionally product teams didn't always fully think through, but now that they sort of have to with a cloud service. The other point, I think that's really important, there is the notion of simplicity and ease of use experience is always important, right? Customer experience, user experience, but it gets even more magnified in a SaaS type of environment because the idea is that you shouldn't have to talk to anybody view, you as a user, should be able to go and call an API and start using this thing right and swipe a credit card and you're good to go. And so, you know, that sort of maniacal focus on how you just remove roadblocks, remove any unnecessary things between that customer and getting the value that they're looking for. So in general, the thing that I really love about SaaS and cloud services is that they really align incentives very well. What you want to do as an application builder, as a solution builder really aligns well with what customers are looking for. And you can get that feedback very, very rapidly, which allows for much quicker evolution of the underlying product and application. >> So one of the other things I learned from my interview with Ragu and I couldn't go deep into it. I did a little bit with summit, but I want to get your perspectives as well as I always talk about this obstruction layer across clouds, hybrid, multicloud edge extract, extracting, the complexity of the, you know, the underlying complexity, and Ragu was sort of it's nuance, but he said, okay, but the thing is, we're not trying to limit access to the primitives. We want to allow developers to go there to the extent they want to and my takeaway was okay, but the, the abstraction is you want to be that single management layer with access to the deep primitives and APIs of the respective clouds. But simplify to your point across those estates at the management layer, and maybe you could add some color to that. >> Yeah you know, it's a really interesting question. And but let me tell you about how we think about it because you're right. And that the, you know, the abstractions can sometimes find the underlying primitives and capabilities. And so Ragu is getting at, hey, like we don't necessarily force you one way or the other. And here's the way to think about it is that it's really about delivering optionality. And we do that through offering these abstractions at different layers. So to your point, Dave, like we have a management capabilities that can enable you to manage consistently across all types of clouds, public, private, edge, et cetera, irrespective of what that underlying infrastructure is. And so you look at things that are like our V realize suite of products or cloud health or tons, and tons of mission control is really focused on that one as well. But then we also have our infrastructure layer. That's what we're doing with VMware cloud and this notion of delivering consistent infrastructure. Now, even though, the core sort of IS layer is more consistent, you still get great flexibility in terms of the higher level services. If you want to use a database from one of the public clouds or messaging system or streaming services, you know, AI, whatever it is, you still got that sort of optionality as well. And so the reason that we offer these different things is because customers are just in different places. As a matter of fact, a single customer may have all of those different use cases, right? They may have some apps where they're moving from on-prem and the cloud, they want to do that very quickly. So, boom, we can just do it really fast with VMware cloud consistent infrastructure, we can vMotion that thing up in the cloud. Great. But for other ones, maybe a modern app they're building and maybe a team has chosen to use native AWS for that, but they want to leverage Kubernetes. So there you could put in a ton of mission control to give them that, you know, consistent management across sites or leverage cloud health to understand costs and to really enable the application teams to manage costs on their own. So I think, you know, I always go back to that concept of optionality, like we offer sort of these different levels of abstraction. And it really depends on what the use case is because the reality is especially for a complex enterprise, they're likely going to have all those use cases. >> You know. I want to stay on optionality for a moment because you're essentially becoming a cloud company. I'm expanding the definition of cloud and that's, which I think is appropriate because the cloud is expanding. It's going on, prem, it's going out to the edge hybrid connections across clouds, et cetera. And when you look at the public cloud players there, they all are deep into what I'll call data management. I'm not even sure what that term means anymore sometimes, but certainly they all own own databases, but they also offer databases from folks. You I go back to something Moritz said with the software mainframe that we want to be able to run any workload, you know, anywhere and, and have high reliability recovery, you know, lowest costs, et cetera. It doesn't seem as though you're going to run those, those workloads project Monterey is about supporting new workloads, but it doesn't seem like you have aspirations to, own sort of the database layer, for example, what's your philosophy around that? >> Not generally I mean, we do have some solutions like Greenplum, for instance, that play in that space, more of a data warehouse solution. But generally speaking, you're absolutely right. You know, VMware success was built through tight partnerships. We have a very, very broad partner network. And of course we see hyperscalers as great partners as well. And so, you know, I think if we get back to like, what's the core of VMware, it really is providing those powerful abstractions in the right places, at the infrastructure level, at the management level and so forth. But yeah, we're not trying to necessarily compete with everyone reinvent the world, what we're trying to do is, and by the way, if I just take a step back when we talk to customers, what really drives them toward multi clouds toward using multiple clouds is the fact that they want to get after these, what we call best of breed cloud services, that many of the different public clouds offer databases and AI and ML systems. And for each app team, the exact one that perfectly meets their needs, maybe different, right? Maybe on one cloud versus another cloud. And so that is really the optionality that we want to optimize for when we talk to those customers that they want the easiest way of getting that app onto that cloud. So we can take advantage of that cloud service, but what they worry about is the lack of consistency there. And that goes across the board. You know, if something fails at two AM, you have to wake up and go fix it. Do you have like the right sort of tooling in place, if it's fails on one cloud versus another, do you have to like, you know, scramble to figure out which tools to go use, how to go, you know, which dashboard to look at? I was like, no, they want kind of a consistent one. When you think about, from a security perspective, how do you drive a secure software supply chain? How do you prevent the types of attacks that we've seen in the past few years where people insert malicious code into your supply chain, and now you're running with hack code out there. And if you have different teams doing different things across different clouds, well, that's going to just open up sort of a can of worm, of different possibilities there for hackers to get in. So that's why this consistency is so important. And so, you know, if, I guess if we refine, the optionality a little bit, that point it's about getting optionality around cloud services and that those, like, those are the things that really differentiate. And so that, you know, we're not trying to compete with that. We're saying, hey, like we want to bring customers to those and give them the best experience that they can irrespective of whether that's in the public cloud or on prem or even at the edge. >> That's a huge technical challenge and amazing value for customers, I want to ask you, there's a lot of talk about ESG today. How does that fit into the CTO mindset? Is it a bolt-on, is it as it is fundamental component? >> Yeah the idea there is that if we look at the core values for VMware, this is something that's hugely important and something that we've actually been focused on for quite a while. We now have a whole team focused on this really being a force multiplier to help keep us honest across VMware, to help ensure equity and in many different ways that we have an air continue to increase. For instance, the amount of female representation within our organization or underrepresented minorities or communities ensuring that, you know, pay is equal across the company. You know, these different sorts of things, but also around sustainability. They actually have a number of folks working very closely with our teams to drive sustainability into our products. You know, vSphere is great because it reduces the amount of physical servers you need. So by definition reduces the carbon footprint there, but now, you know, I'm taking a step further. We have cloud partners that we're working with to ensure that they have net zero carbon emissions, you know, using a hundred percent renewables by 2030. And in fact, that's something that we ourselves have signed up for. As you know, today we are carbon neutral, but what we want to get to is to be net carbon zero by 2030, which is an absolutely huge lift. And that's, by the way, not just for VMware, our operations, our offices, but also for our supply chain as well. And so, you know, when you look across this, you know, as well as efforts around diversity and inclusion, this is something that is very core to what we do as a company, but it's also a personal passion of mine. The ESG office actually lives within my organization. And it does that because what I view the office of the CTO as being as really a force multiplier, as I said before, like, yes, the team is located here, but their purview is across all of engineering. And in fact, all of VMware. So I think, you know, when we look at this, it's about getting the best talent we have, very diverse talent increasing our ability to deliver innovative products, but also doing so in a way that's good for the planet that is sustainable and that is giving back to the community. But I think, you know, I'm looking at measuring success in a few different ways. First of all, as I said before, the ESG component and in diversity equity inclusion in particular, in terms of our workforce, extraordinarily important to me and something we're going to be really pushing hard on, you know, as we all know, you know, women, underrepresented minorities, not very well represented in general in Silicon valley. So something that we all need to step up on. And so we're going to be putting a lot of effort in there and that will actually help drive as I said before, all of these innovations, this fundamental shift in mindset, I mean that requires diverse perspectives. It requires pushing us out of our comfort zone, but the net result of that is, so what you're going to see is a much faster cadence of releases of innovation coming from VMware. So there's some just insanely exciting things that are happening in the labs right now that we're cooking up. But, you know, as we start making this shift, we're going to be delivering those faster and faster to our customers and our partners. >> You know, I'm interested to hear that it's a passion of yours. There was an article, I think it was last week in the wall street journal was this, it was an insert section on, on women in the workforce. And there was a stat in there, which I thought was pretty interesting. I'll run it by you see what you think it said that, you know, it's talking about COVID and post COVID and the stresses. And it's interesting to me because a lot of executives are, and you know, I'm, I'm with them is, hey, work from home. This is some beautiful thing. It's good for business too, because you know, everybody's more productive, but then you have this perpetual workday now it's like we never sleep. And then it goes bleeds in the weekends. And the stat from Qualtrics, which was published in the journal, said that, I think it said 30% of working women said that they, their mental health has declined since COVID. And that number was only 15% for working men, still notable but half. And so, you know, one has to question maybe that perpetual work week, and, you know, maybe there's a benefit from business productivity, but then there's the other side of that as well. And a lot of women have left the workforce, a lot of working previously working moms. And so there's a, there's an untapped labor pool there, and there's this huge labor shortage. And so these are important issues, but they're not easy ones to solve, are they? >> No, no, no. It's something we've been putting a lot of thought into at VMware. So we do have a flexible program that we're rolling out in terms of work. People can come into the office if they want to, of course, you know, where we have offices, where it's safe to do so where the government is allowed that our people can and people can have an actual desk there, or sometimes they can say, hey, I only want to come in once or twice a week. And then we say, okay, we'll have some floating desks that you can take. And others are saying, I want to be fully remote. So we give people a pretty broad range in terms of how they want to address that. But I do think to your point though, and this is something I've been really trying to do already is to create a more inclusive environment by doing a number of different things. And so it's being thoughtful around when you're sending emails 'cause like I do like the, my sort of schedule as I do tend to like fire off a lot of emails late at night after the kids are in bed and get a little quiet time, some thinking time, but I make it very clear that I'm not expecting an immediate response don't worry about it. I'm just, this is my work time. Doesn't have to be your work time. And so really setting those, I guess, boundaries very well explicitly and kind of the, the expectations name is a better term setting that explicitly trying to schedule meetings, not at times where you're going to have to drop the kids off at school or pick them to take over your life. And so we really try to emphasize boundaries and, and really studying those things appropriately. But honestly, it's something that we're still working on and I'm still learning and so I'd love to get feedback from folks, but those are some of the early thinkings. But I would say that we at VMware are taking it very, very seriously and really supporting our employees in terms of navigating that work-life balance. >> Well, okay. Congratulations on the new role and it's great to see you again I hope I hope next year we could be face-to-face always a pleasure to have you on the cube. >> Thanks, Dave. Appreciate it being here. >> Alright and thank you for watching the cubes continuous coverage of VMworld 2021, the virtual edition. Keep it right there for more right after this.

(slow music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's ongoing coverage of VMworld 2021, the second year in a row we've done this virtually. My name is Dave Vellante and long-time VMware technologist and new CTO Kit Colbert is here. Kit, welcome. Good to see you again. >> Thanks, Dave. Super excited to be here. >> So let's talk about your new role. You've been at VMware. You've touched all the bases so to speak (Kit chuckles) and, you know, love the career evolution. You're ready for this job. So tell us about that role. >> Well, I hope so. I don't know. It's definitely a big step up. Been here at VMware for 18 years now, which, if know Silicon Valley, you know that's a long time. It's probably like four or five normal Silicon Valley lifetime's in terms of stints at a company. But I love it. I love the company. I love the culture. I love the technology and I'm super passionate, super excited about it. And so, you know, previously I was CTO for one of our business groups and focused on a specific set of our products and services. But now, as the corporate CTO, I really am overseeing all of VMware R&D. In the sense of really trying to drive a whole bunch of core engineering transformations, right, where we've talked a lot about our shift toward becoming a SaaS company. So, you know, a cloud services company. And so there's a lot of changes we got to make internally. Technologies, platform services we need to build out, you know, the sort of culture aspects of it again. And so, you know, I'm kind of sitting at the center of that and, I'll be honest, it's big, there's a lot of stuff to go and do, but I am just super excited about it. Wake up every day, really excited to meet a whole bunch of new people across the organization and to learn all the cool things we're doing. Well, you know, I'll say it again, like the level of innovation happening inside VMware is just insane. And it's really cool now that I get kind of more of a front and center row to see everything that's happening. >> And when I was preparing for the interview with Raghu, you know, I've been following VMware for a long time, and I sort of noted that it's like the fourth, you know, wave of executive management and I sort of went back and said, okay, yes, we know it started with, you know, Workstation. Okay, fine. But then really quickly went into really changing the way in which we think about servers, and server utilization, and driving. I remember the first time I ever saw a demo, I said, "Wow, this is going to be completely game-changing." And then thought about the era of the software-defined data center, fine-tuning the cloud strategy, and then this explosion of innovation, whether it was this sort of NSX piece, the acquisitions you've made around security, again, more cloud expansion. And now you're laying out sort of this Switzerland from Multi-Cloud combined with, as you're pointing out, this as a service model. So when you think about the technical vision of the company transforming into a cloud and subscription model, what does that mean from a sort of architectural standpoint >> Yeah. >> Or a mindset perspective? >> Oh yeah. Both great questions and both sort of key focus areas for me, and by the way, it's something I've been thinking about for quite a while, right? Yeah, so you're right. Like we are on our third or fourth lap of the track depending on how you count. But I also think that this notion of getting into Multi-Cloud, of becoming a real cloud services company is going to be probably the biggest one for us. And the biggest transformation that we're going to have to make, you know, we did extend from core compute virtualization to network and storage with the software-defined data center. But now these things I think are a bit more fundamental. So, you know, how are we thinking about it? Well, we're thinking about it in a few different ways. I do think, as you mentioned, the mindset is definitely the most important thing. This notion that, you know, we no longer really have product teams purely, they should be thinking of themselves as service teams and the idea being that they are operating and accountable for the availability of their cloud service. And so this means we really needed to step up our game, and we have in terms of the types of tooling that we built, but really it's about getting these developers engaged with that, to know that, hey, like what matters most of all right now is that service availability, in addition to things like security, compliance, et cetera. But we have monitoring systems to tell you, hey, like there's a problem. And that you need to go jump on those things immediately. This is not like, you know, a normal bug that comes in, oh, I'll get to it tomorrow or whatever. It's like, no, no, you got to step up and really get there immediately. And so there is that big mindset shift and that's something we've been driving for the past few years, but we need to continue to push there. And as part of that, you know, what we've seen is that a lot of our individual teams have gone out and build like really great cloud services, but what we really want to build to enable us to accelerate that, is a platform, a true, you know, SaaS platform and leveraging all these great capabilities that we have to help all of our teams go faster. And so it gets to things like standardization and really raising the bar across the board to allow all these teams to focus on what makes their products or services unique and differentiated rather than, you know, just doing the basic blocking and tackling. So those are couple of things I'm really focused on. Both driving the mindset shift. You know, as I was taking on this role, I did a lot of reading on other CTOs and, you know, how do they view their roles within their companies? And one of the things I did hear there was that the CTO is kind of the, I don't know if the keeper is the right word, but the keeper of the engineering culture, right, that you want to really be a steward for that to help take it forward in the right sort of directions that aligned with the strategic direction of the business. And so that's a big aspect for what I'm thinking about. And the second one in the SaaS platform, one of the really interesting things about this reorg that we've done internally is, that traditionally CTO is kind of focused, you know, outbound, maybe a little bit inbound, but typically don't have large engineering organizations, but here, what we want to do, because the SaaS platform is so important to us. We did centralize it within the office of the CTO. And so now, you know, my customers, from an engineering standpoint, are all the internal business units. So a lot of really big changes inside VMware, but I think this is the sort of stuff we need to do to help us really accelerate toward the multi-cloud vision that we're painting. >> Well, VMware has always had a superstrong engineering culture, and I liked the way you phrase that, "The steward of the engineering culture," when you think about a product mindset, 'course correct me, if I'm off here, but when you're building a product and you're making that thing rock-solid, you know, Maritz used to talk about the hardened top. And so it seems to me that the services mindset expands the mind a little bit in terms of what other services can I integrate to make my service better, whether that's a machine, intelligence service, or a security service or, you know, the dozens of other services that you guys are now building, the combination of that innovation has like a step function and a lever on top of the sort of traditional product mindset. >> Yeah, I think you're absolutely right there's a ton of like really fundamental mental mindset shifts, right? That are a part of that. And the integration piece you mentioned, super critical, but I also think it's actually taking a step back and looking at the life cycle more holistically. When you're thinking about a product, you're thinking about, okay, I'ma get the bits together, I'm going to ship it out. But then it's really up to the customer to go deploy that, to operate it, to, you know, deal with problems and bugs that come up. And when you're delivering a cloud service, those are all problems that you, as the application creator, have to deal with. And so you've got to be on top of all those things. And, you know, if you design something in such a way that it becomes kind of hard to debug at runtime, well, that's going to directly impact your availability, that might have, you know, contractual obligations with an SLA impact to a customer. So there's some really big implications there that I think traditionally product teams didn't always fully think through, but now that they sort of have to with like a cloud service. The other point, I think that's really important there, is the notion of simplicity and ease of use. Experience is always important, right? Customer experience, user experience, but it gets even more magnified in a SaaS type of environment because the idea is that you shouldn't have to talk to anybody. You, as a user, should be able to go and call an API and start using this thing, right, and swipe a credit card and you're good to go. And so, you know, that sort of maniacal focus on how you just remove roadblocks, remove any unnecessary things between that customer and getting the value that they're looking for. So in general, the thing that I really love about SaaS and cloud services is that they really align incentives very well. What you want to do, as an application builder, as a solution builder, really aligns well with what customers are looking for. And you can get that feedback very, very rapidly, which allows for much quicker evolution of the underlying product and application. >> So one of the other things I learned from my interview with Raghu, and I couldn't go deep into it, I did a little bit with Sumit, but I wonder if I get your perspectives as well. I always talk about this abstraction layer across clouds, hybrid, multi-cloud, edge, abstracting, you know, the underlying complexity, and Raghu, it's nuance, but he said, "Okay, but the thing is, we're not trying to limit access to the primitives. We want to allow developers to go there to the extent." And my takeaway was okay, but the abstraction is you want to be that single management layer with access to the deep primitives and APIs of the respective clouds. But simplify, to your point, across those estates at the management layer, maybe you could add some color to that. >> Yeah, you know, it's a really interesting question. But let me tell you about how we think about it because you're right. In that, you know, the abstractions can sometimes find the underlying primitives and capabilities. And so Raghu getting at, hey, like we don't necessarily force you one way or the other. And here's the way to think about it, is that it's really about delivering optionality. And we do that through offering these abstractions at different layers. So to your point, Dave, like we have a management capabilities that can enable you to manage consistently across all types of clouds, public, private, edge, et cetera, irrespective of what that underlying infrastructure is. And so you'll look at things that are like our vRealize suite of products, or CloudHealth, or Tanzu, Tanzu Mission Control is really focused on that one as well. But then we also have our infrastructure layer. That's what we're doing with VMware Cloud. And this notion of delivering consistent infrastructure. Now, even though the core, sort of IIS layer, is more consistent, you still get great flexibility in terms of the higher-level services. If you want to use a database from one of the public clouds, or a messaging system, or streaming service, or, you know, AI, whatever it is, you still got that sort of optionality as well. And so the reason that we offer these different things is because customers are just in different places. As a matter of fact, a single customer may have all of those different use cases, right? They may have some apps where they're moving from on-prem into the cloud. They want to do that very quickly. So, boom, we can just do it really fast with VMware Cloud, consistent infrastructure. We can VMotion that thing up in the Cloud, great. But for other ones, maybe a modern app they're building, and maybe a team has chosen to use native AWS for that, but they want to leverage Kubernetes. So there you could put in a Tanzu Mission Control to give them that, you know, consistent management across sites, or leverage CloudHealth to understand costs and to really enable the application teams to manage costs on their own. So, you know, I always go back to that concept of optionality, like we offer sort of these different levels of abstraction, and it really depends on what the use case is because the reality is, especially for a complex enterprise, they're likely going to have all of those use cases. >> You know, I want to stay on optionality for a moment because you're essentially becoming a cloud company. I'm expanding the definition of cloud, which I think is appropriate 'cause the cloud is expanding. It's going on-prem, it's going out to the edge, there's hybrid connections, across clouds, et cetera. And when you look at the public cloud players, they all are deep into what I'll call data management. I'm not even sure what that term means anymore sometimes, but certainly they all own, own, databases, but they also offer databases from folks. I go back to something Maritz said with the software mainframe that we want to be able to run any workload, you know, anywhere and have high reliability, recovery, you know, lowest costs, et cetera. So you're going to run those workloads. Project Monterey is about supporting new workloads, but it doesn't seem like you have aspirations to own sort of the database layer, for example, what's your philosophy around that? >> Yeah. Not generally. I mean, we do have some solutions like Greenplum, for instance, that play in that space, more of a data warehouse solution, but generally speaking, you're absolutely right. You know, VMware success was built through tight partnerships. We have a very, very broad partner network. And of course, we see hyperscalers as great partners as well. And so, I think if we get back to like, what's the core of VMware, it really is providing those powerful abstractions in the right places, at the infrastructure level, at the management level, and so forth. But yeah, we're not trying to necessarily compete with everyone, reinvent the world. And by the way, if I just take a step back, when we talk to customers, what really drives them toward using multiple clouds is the fact that they want to get after these, what we call, best of breed cloud services, that many of the different public clouds offer databases and AI and ML systems. And for each app team, the exact one that perfectly meets their needs may be different, right? Maybe on one conference is another cloud. And so that is really the optionality that we want to optimize for when we talk to those customers. They want the easiest way of getting that app onto that cloud, so we can take advantage of that cloud service, but what they worry about is the lack of consistency there. And that goes across the board. You know, if something fails at 2:00 am, and you have to wake up and go fix it. Do you have like the right sort of tooling in place, if it's fails on one cloud versus another, do you have to like, you know, scramble to figure out which tools to go use, you know, which dashboard to look at? It's like, no, that you want kind of a consistent one. When you think about, from a security perspective, how do you drive a secure software supply chain? How do you prevent the types of attacks that we've seen in the past few years? Where people insert malicious code into your supply chain and now you're running with hack code out there. And if you have different teams doing different things across different clouds, well, that's going to just open up sort of a can of worm of different possibilities there for hackers to get in. So that's why this consistency is so important. And so, you know, I guess, if we refine the optionality a little bit, that point, it's about getting optionality around cloud services and then like those are the things that really differentiate. And so, you know, we're not trynna compete with that. We're saying, hey, like we want to bring customers to those and give them the best experience that they can, irrespective of whether that's in the public cloud, or on-prem, or even at the edge. >> And that's a huge technical challenge and amazing value for customers. I want to ask you, there's a lot of talk about ESG today. How does that fit into the CTO mindset? >> Yeah. >> Is it a bolt-on, is it a fundamental component? >> Yeah. Yeah, so ESG is talking about environment, sustainability, and governance. And so, you know, it's not an environment, excuse me, equity, (Kit chuckles) equity, sustainability, and governance. Getting my acronyms wrong, which as the technologist, really a faux pas, but any case, equity, sustainability, and governance. And the idea there is that if we look at the core values for VMware, this is something that's hugely important. And something that we've actually been focused on for quite a while. We now have a whole team focused on this, really being a force multiplier to help keep us honest across VMware, to help ensure equity, and in many different ways, that we have or continue to increase, for instance, the amount of female representation within our organization, or underrepresented minorities or communities, ensuring that, you know, pay is equal across the company. You know, these different sorts of things, but also around sustainability. They actually have a number of folks working very closely with our teams to drive sustainability into our products. You know, vSphere is great because it reduces the amount of physical servers you need. So by definition reduces the carbon footprint there. But now, you know, taking a step further. We have cloud partners that we're working with to ensure that they have net-zero carbon emissions, you know, using 100% renewables by 2030. And in fact, that's something that, we ourselves, have signed up for, you know, today we are carbon-neutral, but what we want to get to is to be net carbon zero by 2030, which is an absolutely huge lift. And that's, by the way, not just for VMware, our operations, our offices, but also for our supply chain as well. And so, you know, when you look across, you know, as well as efforts around diversity and inclusion, this is something that is very core to what we do as a company, but it's also a personal passion of mine. The ESG office actually lives within my organization. And it does that because what I view the office of the CTO as being is really a force multiplier, as I said before, like, yes, the team is located here, but their purview is across all of engineering. And in fact, all of VMware. So I think, you know, when we look at this, it's about getting the best talent we have, very diverse talent, increasing our ability to deliver innovative products, but also doing so in a way that's good for the planet, that is sustainable. And that is giving back to the community. >> You know, by the way, I don't think that was faux pas. (Kit laughs) 'Cause a lot of times, people use environmental, social, and governance, and your equity piece would fall into the S in that equation, the social responsibility, you know, components. So I think you've just done an interesting twist on the acronym. So no mistake there. (Dave chuckles) Just another way to look at it. >> Yup, yup, yup. >> So you're now deep into the CTO role. What should we look for in the, you know, coming months and years? How should we >> Hmm. >> Kind of evaluate progress? What are those sort of milestones that we should be looking at? >> Yeah, so about a month or so into the job now, and so still getting my arms wrapped around, but, you know, I'm looking at measuring success in a few different ways. First of all, as I said before, the ESG component and in diversity, equity inclusion in particular, in terms of our workforce, extraordinarily important to me and something we're going to be really pushing hard on, you know, as we all know, you know, women, underrepresented minorities, not very well represented, in general, in Silicon Valley. So something that we all need to step up on. And so we're going to be putting a lot of effort in there, and that will actually help drive, as I said before, all of these innovations, this fundamental shift in mindset, I mean, that requires diverse perspectives. It requires pushing us out of our comfort zone, but the net result of that, so that what you're going to see, is a much faster cadence of releases of innovation coming from VMware. So there's some just insanely exciting things (Kit laughs) that are happening in the labs right now that we're cooking up. But, you know, as we start making this shift, we're going to be delivering those faster and faster to our customers and our partners. >> You know, I'm interested to hear that it's a passion of yours. There was an article, I think it was last week, in "The Wall Street Journal," it was an insert section on "Women in the Workforce," and there was a stat in there, which I thought was pretty interesting. I'll run it by and you see what you think, you know, it was talking about COVID, and post COVID,and the stresses. And it's interesting to me because a lot of executives, and pfft, you know, I'm with them, said, "Hey, work from home. This a beautiful thing. It's good for business too, because, you know, everybody's more productive," but you have this perpetual workday now. It's like we never sleep. It bleeds in the weekends. And the stat from Qualtrics, which was published in the journal, I think it said, "30% of working women said that their mental health has declined since COVID." And that number was only 15% for working men, is still notable, but half. And so, you know, one has to question maybe that perpetual work week and, you know, maybe there's a benefit from business productivity, but then there's the other side of that as well. And a lot of women have left the workforce, a lot of previously working moms. And so there's an untapped labor pool there, and there's this huge labor shortage. And so these are important issues, but they're not easy ones to solve, are they? >> No, no, no. It's something we've been putting a lot of thought into at VMware. So we do have a flexible program that we're rolling out in terms of work. People can come into the office if they want to, of course, you know, where we have offices where it's safe to do so, where the government has allowed that, and people can have an actual desk there, or sometimes they can say, "Hey, I only want to come in once or twice a week." And then we say, "Okay, we'll have some floating desks that you can take." And others are saying, "I want to be fully remote." So we give people a pretty broad range in terms of how they want to address that. But I do think, to your point though, and this is something I've been really trying to do already is to create a more inclusive environment by doing a number of different things. And so it's being thoughtful around when you're sending emails. 'Cause like my sort of schedule is, I do tend to like fire off emails late at night after the kids are in bed, I get a little quiet time, some thinking time, but I make it very clear that I'm not expecting an immediate response. Don't worry about it. This is my work time. Doesn't have to be your work time. And so really setting those, I guess, boundaries, if you will, explicitly and kind of the expectations maybe is a better term, setting that explicitly, trying to schedule meetings, not at times where you're going to have to drop the kids off at school or pick them (indistinct) and to take over your life. And so we really try to emphasize boundaries and really setting those things appropriately. But honestly, it's something that we're still working on and I'm still learning. And so I'd love to get feedback from folks, but those are some of the early thinkings. But I would say that we at VMware are taking it very, very seriously and really supporting our employees in terms of navigating that work-life balance. >> Well Kit, congratulations on the new role and it's great to see you again. I hope next year we can be face-to-face, always a pleasure to have you on theCUBE. >> Thanks, Dave. Appreciated being here. >> All right, and thank you for watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of VMworld 2021, the virtual edition. Keep it right there for more right after this. (slow music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE. With digital coverage of VMworld 2020 brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm Stuart Miniman and this is theCUBES's coverage of VMworld 2020. Our 11th year doing the show and happy to welcome back to the program one of our CUBE's alums. Somebody that's is going to VMworld longer than we have been doing it for theCUBE. So Vaughn Stewart he is the Vice President of Technology Alliances with Pure Storage Vaughn, nice to see you. How you doing? >> Hey, Stu. CUBE thanks for having me back. I miss you guys I wish we were doing this in person. >> Yeah, we all wish we were in person but as we've been saying all this year, we get to be together even while we're apart. So we look to you on little screens and things like that rather than bumping into each other at some of the after parties or the coffee shops all around San Francisco. So Vaughn, obviously you know Pure Storage long, long, long partnership with VMware. I think back the first time that I probably met with the Pure team, in person, it probably was around Moscone, having a breakfast having a lunch, having a briefing or the likes. So just give us the high level. I know we've got a lot of things to dig into. Pure and VMware, how's the partnership going these days? >> Partnership is growing fantastic Pure invests a lot of engineering resources in programs with VMware. Particularly the VMware design partner programs for vVols, Container-Native Storage et cetera. The relationship is healthy the business is growing strong. I'm very excited about the investments that VMware is making around VMware Cloud Foundation as a replatforming of what's going on MPREM to help better enable hybrid cloud and to support Tanzu and Kubernetes platforms. So a lot going on at the infrastructure level that ultimately helps customers of all to adopt cloud native workloads and applications. >> Wonderful. Well a lot of pieces to unpack that. Of course Tanzu big piece of what they're talking about. But let's start. You mentioned VCF. You know what is it on the infrastructure side, that is kind of driving your customer adoption these days, and the some of the latest integrations that you're doing? >> Yeah you know VCF has really caught the attention of our mid to large or mid to enterprise size customers. The focus around, as I use the phrase replatform is planning out with VMworld phrase. But the focus on simplifying the lifecycle management, giving you a greater means to connect to the public cloud. I don't know if you're aware, but all VMware public cloud offerings have the VCF framework in terms of architectural framework. So now bringing that back on-prem, allowing customers on a per workload domain basis to extend to a hybrid cloud capability. It's a really big advancement from kind of the base vSphere infrastructure, which architecturally hasn't had a significant advancement in a number of years. What's really big around VCF besides the hybrid connectivity, is the couple of new tools SDDC Manager and vSphere Lifecycle Manager. These tools can actually manage the infrastructure from bare metal up to workload domains and then from workload domains you're now handing off to considered like delegated vCenter Servers right? So that the owner of a workload if you will and then that person can go ahead and provision virtual machines or containers, based on whatever is required to run their workloads. So for us the big gain of this is the advancement in the VMware management. They are bringing their strength in providing simplicity, and end-to-end hardwared application management to disaggregated architectures. Where the focus of that capability has been with HCI over say the past five or six years. And so this really helps close that last gap, if you will, and completes a 360 degree view of providing simplified management across dissimilar architecture and it's consistent and it's standardized by VMware. So HCI, disaggregated architecture, public cloud, it all operates the same. >> So Vaughn, you made a comment about not a lot of changes. If I remember our friends at VMware they made a statement vSphere 7 was the biggest architectural change in over a decade. Of course bringing in Kubernetes it's a major piece of the Tanzu discussion. Pure. Your team's been pretty busy in the Kubernetes space too. Recent acquisition of Portwox to help accelerate that. Maybe let's talk a little bit about you know cloud native. What you're hearing from your customers. (chuckles) And yeah, like we've Dave Vellante had a nice interview with, Pure and Portwox CEOs. Give the VMworld audience a little bit of an update as you know where you all fit in the Kubernetes space. >> Yeah and actually, there was a lot that you shared there kind of in connecting the VCF piece through to vSphere 7 and a lot of changes there in driving into Tanzu and containers. So maybe we're going to jump around here a bit but look we're really excited. We've been working with VMware, but in addition to all of our application partners, you are seeing nearly every traditional enterprise application being replatformed to support containers. I'd love to share with you more details, but there's a lot of NDAs I'd be breaking in that. But the way for enterprise adoption of containers is right upon us. And so the timing for VMware Tanzu is ideal. Our focus has always been around providing a rich set of data services. One that provides faster provisioning, simplified fleet management, and the ability to move that container and those data services between different clouds and different cloud platforms, Be it on-prem, or in the public cloud space. We've had a lot of success doing that with the Pure Service Orchestrator Version 6.0 enables CSI compliant persistent storage capabilities. And it does support Tanzu today. The addition or I should say the acquisition of Portworx is really interesting. Because now we're bringing on an enhanced set of data services that not only run on a Pure Storage storage products, but runs universally regardless of the storage platform, or the Cloud architecture. The capabilities within Portworx are above and beyond what we had in PSO. So this is a great expansion of our capabilities. And ultimately we want to help customers. Whether they want to do containers solely on Tanzu, or if they're going to mix Tanzu with say Amazon EKS, or they've got some department that does development on OpenShift. Whatever it might be. You know that the focus of storage vendors is obviously to help customers make that data available on these platforms through a consistent control plane. >> Yeah. Vaughn it's a great acquisition. Think a nice fit. Anybody that's been talking to Pure the last year or so you've been. How do we take the storage make it more cloud native if you will. So you've got code. Obviously, you've got a great partnership with VMware, but as you said, in Amazon and some of the other hyper clouds those clouds, those storage services, no matter where a customer is, so that that core value, of course we know, is this the software underneath it. And that's what Portworx is. So you know not only Pure's, but other hardware, other clouds and the likes. So a really interesting space You know Vaughn, you and I've been covering this, since the early days of VMware. Hey this software is kind of a big deal and you know (chuckles) cloud in many ways is an extension of what we're doing. I know we used to joke how many years was it that VMworld was storage world? You know. >> Ooh yeah. >> There was talk about like big architectural changes, you know vVols When that finally came out, it was years of hard work by many of the big companies, including your previous and current you know employer. What's the latest? My understanding is that there are some updates there when it comes to the underlying vVols. What are the storage people need to know? >> Yeah. So great question and VMware is always been infrastructure world really Right? Like it is a showcase for storage. But it's also been a showcase for the compute vendors and every Intel partner. From a storage perspective, a lot is going on this year that should really excite both VMware admins and those who are storage centric in their day-to-day jobs. Let's start with the recent news. vVols has been promoted within VCF to being principal storage. For those of you who maybe are unfamiliar with this term 'principal storage' VMware Cloud Foundation supports any form of storage that's supported by vSphere. But SDDC manager tool that I was sharing with you earlier that really excites large scale organizations around it's end-to-end simplicity and management. It had a smaller, less robust support list when it comes to provisioning external storage. And so it had two tiers. Principal and secondary. Principal meant SDDC manager could provision and deprovision sub-tenants. So the recent news brings vVols both on Fiber Channel and iSCSI up to that principal tier. Pure Storage is a VMware design partner around vVols. We are one of the most adopted vVols storage platforms, and we are really leaning in on VCF. So we are very happy to see that come to fruition for our customers. Part of why VMware partners with Pure Storage around VCF, is they want VCF enabled on any Fabric. And you know some vendors only offer ethernet only forms of connectivity. But with Pure Storage, we don't care what your Fabric is right. We just want to provide the data services be it ethernet, fiber channel or next generation NVMe over Fabric. That last point segments into another recent announcement from from VMware. Which is the support for NVMe over Fabric within vSphere 7. This is key because NVMe over Fabric allows the IO path to move away from SCSI based form of communication one to a memory based form of communication. And this unleashes a new level of performance, a way to better support those business and mission critical applications. Or a way to drive greater density into a smaller form factor and footprint within your data center. Obviously Fabric upgrades tend to not happen in conjunction with hypervisor upgrades, but the ability to provide customers a roadmap and a means to be able to continually evolve their infrastructure non disruptively, is our key there. It would be remiss of me to not point out one kind of orthogonal element, which is the new vMotion capabilities that are in vSphere 7. Customers have been tried for a number of years, probably from vSphere 4 through six to virtualize more performance centric and resource intense applications. And they've had some challenges around scale, particularly with the non-disruptive. The ability to non disruptively move a workload. VMware rewrote vMotion for vSphere 7 so it can tackle these larger more performance centric workloads. And when you combine that along with the addition of like NVMe over Fabric support, I think you're truly at a time where you can say, almost every workload can run on a VMware platform, right? From your traditional two two consolidation where you started to looking at performance centric AI, in machine learning workloads. >> Yeah. A lot of pieces you just walked through Vaughn, I'm glad especially the NVMe over Fabric piece. Just want to drill down one level there. As you said, there's a lot of pieces to make sure that this is fully worked. The standards are done, the software is there, the hardware, the various interconnects there and then okay, when's does the customer actually ready to upgrade that? How much of that is just you know okay hitting the update button. How much of that is do I need to do a refresh? And we understand that the testing and purchasing cycles there. So how many customers are you talking to that are like, "Okay I've got all the pieces, "we're ready to roll, "we're implementing in 2020." And you know, what's that roadmap look like for kind of the typical enterprise, which I know is a bit of an oxymoron? (laughs) >> So we've got a handful. I think that's a fair way to give you a size without giving you an exact number. We had a handful of customers who have NVMe over Fabric deployments today. The deployments tend to be application or workload centric versus ubiquitous across the data center. Which I think does bear an opportunity for VMware adoption to be a little bit earlier than across the entire data center. Because most VMware architectures today are based on top of rack switching. Whether that switching is fiber channel or ethernet base, I think the ability to then upgrade that switch. Either you've got modern hardware and it just needs a firmware update, or you've got to replace that hardware and implement NVMe over Fabric. I think that's very attractive. Particularly that you can do so in a non disruptive manner with a flash array or with flash deck. We expect to see the adoption really start to take take hold in 2021. But you probably won't see large market gains until 2022 or 23. >> Well that's super helpful Vaughn especially Pure Storage you've got customers that have some of the most demanding performance environments out there. So they are some of the early adopters that you would expect go into adopting this new technology. All right. I guess last piece, listening to the keynote looking at all the announcements that they have you know, VMware obviously has a big push into the cloud native space they've made a whole lot of acquisitions. We touched on a little bit before but what's your take as to what you are hearing from your customers, where they are with adoption into really modernizing and accelerating their businesses today? >> I think for the majority of our customers and again I would consider more of a commercial or mid market centric up through enterprise. They've particularity enterprise, they've adapted cloud native technologies particularity in developing their own internal or customer facing applications. So I don't think the technology is new. I think where it's newer is this re platforming of enterprise applications and I think that what's driving the timeline for VMware. We have a number of Pivotal deployments that run up here. Very large scale Pivotal deployments that run on Pure. And hopefully as you audience knows Pivotal is what VMware Tanzu has been rebranded as. So we've had success there. We've have had success in the test and development and in the web facing application space. But now this is a broader initiative from VMware supporting enterprise apps along with you know the cloud native disaggregated applications that have been built over the last say five to 10 years. But to provide it though a single management plane. So I'm bullish, I'm really bullish I think they are in a unique position compared to the rest of our technology partners you know they own the enterprise virtualization real estate and as so their ability to successfully add cloud native application to that, I think it's a powerful mix . For us the opportunity is great. I want to thank you for focusing on the fact that we've been able to deliver performance. But performances found on any flash product. And it's not to demote our performance by any means, but when you look at our customers and what they purchase us in terms of the repeat purchases, it's around simplicity, it's around the native integration with VMware and the extending of that value prop through our capabilities whether it's through the end-to-end infrastructure management, through data protection extending in the hybrid cloud. That's where Pure Storage customers fall in love with Pure Storage. And so it's a combination of performance, simplicity and ultimately, you know, economics. As we know economics drive most technical decisions not the actual technology itself. >> Well, Vaughn Stewart thank you so much for the update, congratulation on all the new things that are being brought out in the partnership >> Thank you Stu appreciate being on theCUBE, big shout out to VMware congratulations on VMworld 2020, look forward to seeing everybody soon >> All right, stay tuned for more coverage VMworld 2020 I'm Stu Miniman and that you for watching theCUBE. (bright upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are having a very special Cube conversation and kind of the the ongoing unveil, if you will, of the new VMware vSphere seven dot O. We're going to get a little bit more of a technical deep-dive here today and we're excited to have a longtime CUBE alumni. Kit Colbert here is the VP and CTO of Cloud platform at VMware. Kit, great to see you. >> Yeah, happy to be here. And new to theCUBE, Jared Rosoff. He's a Senior Director of Product Management of VMware and I'm guessing had a whole lot to do with this build. So Jared, first off, congratulations for birthing this new release and great to have you on board. >> Thanks, feels pretty great, great to be here. >> All right, so let's just jump into it. From kind of a technical aspect, what is so different about vSphere 7? >> Yeah, great. So vSphere 7 bakes Kubernetes right into the virtualization platform. And so this means that as a developer, I can now use Kubernetes to actually provision and control workloads inside of my vSphere environment. And it means as an IT admin, I'm actually able to deliver Kubernetes and containers to my developers really easily right on top of the platform I already run. >> So I think we had kind of a sneaking suspicion that that might be coming with the acquisition of the Heptio team. So really exciting news, and I think Kit, you teased it out quite a bit at VMware last year about really enabling customers to deploy workloads across environments, regardless of whether that's on-prem, public cloud, this public cloud, that public cloud, so this really is the realization of that vision. >> It is, yeah. So we talked at VMworld about Project Pacific, right, this technology preview. And as Jared mentioned of what that was, was how do we take Kubernetes and really build it into vSphere? As you know, we had a hybrid cloud vision for quite a while now. How do we proliferate vSphere to as many different locations as possible? Now part of the broader VMware cloud foundation portfolio. And you know, as we've gotten more and more of these instances in the cloud, on premises, at the edge, with service providers, there's a secondary question of how do we actually evolve that platform so it can support not just the existing workloads, but also modern workloads as well. >> Right. All right, so I think he brought some pictures for us, a little demo. So why don't we, >> Yeah. Why don't we jump over >> Yeah, let's dive into it. to there and let's see what it looks like? You guys can cue up the demo. >> Jared: Yeah, so we're going to start off looking at a developer actually working with the new VMware cloud foundation four and vSphere 7. So what you're seeing here is the developer's actually using Kubernetes to deploy Kubernetes. The self-eating watermelon, right? So the developer uses this Kubernetes declarative syntax where they can describe a whole Kubernetes cluster. And the whole developer experience now is driven by Kubernetes. They can use the coop control tool and all of the ecosystem of Kubernetes API's and tool chains to provision workloads right into vSphere. And so, that's not just provisioning workloads though, this is also key to the developer being able to explore the things they've already deployed. So go look at, hey, what's the IP address that got allocated to that? Or what's the CPU load on this workload I just deployed? On top of Kubernetes, we've integrated a Container Registry into vSphere. So here we see a developer pushing and pulling container images. And you know, one of the amazing things about this is from an infrastructure as code standpoint, now, the developer's infrastructure as well as their software is all unified in source control. I can check in not just my code, but also the description of the Kubernetes environment and storage and networking and all the things that are required to run that app. So now we're looking at a sort of a side-by-side view, where on the right hand side is the developer continuing to deploy some pieces of their application. And on the left hand side, we see vCenter. And what's key here is that as the developer deploys new things through Kubernetes, those are showing up right inside of the vCenter console. And so the developer and IT are seeing exactly the same things with the same names. And so this means when a developer calls, their IT department says, hey, I got a problem with my database. We don't spend the next hour trying to figure out which VM they're talking about. They got the same name, they see the same information. So what we're going to do is that, you know, we're going to push the the developer screen aside and start digging into the vSphere experience. And you know, what you'll see here is that vCenter is the vCenter you've already known and love, but what's different is that now it's much more application focused. So here we see a new screen inside of vCenter, vSphere namespaces. And so, these vSphere namespaces represent whole logical applications, like the whole distributed system now is a single object inside of vCenter. And when I click into one of these apps, this is a managed object inside of vSphere. I can click on permissions, and I can decide which developers have the permission to deploy or read the configuration of one of these namespaces. I can hook this into my Active Directory infrastructure. So I can use the same corporate credentials to access the system. I tap into all my existing storage. So this platform works with all of the existing vSphere storage providers. I can use storage policy based management to provide storage for Kubernetes. And it's hooked in with things like DRS, right? So I can define quotas and limits for CPU and memory, and all of that's going to be enforced by DRS inside the cluster. And again, as an admin, I'm just using vSphere. But to the developer, they're getting a whole Kubernetes experience out of this platform. Now, vSphere also now sucks in all this information from the Kubernetes environment. So besides seeing the VMs and things the developers have deployed, I can see all of the desired state specifications, all the different Kubernetes objects that the developers have created. The compute, network and storage objects, they're all integrated right inside the vCenter console. And so once again from a diagnostics and troubleshooting perspective, this data's invaluable. It often saves hours just in trying to figure out what we're even talking about when we're trying to resolve an issue. So as you can see, this is all baked right into vCenter. The vCenter experience isn't transformed a lot. We get a lot of VI admins who look at this and say, where's the Kubernetes? And they're surprised, they like, they've been managing Kubernetes all this time, it just looks like the vSphere experience they've already got. But all those Kubernetes objects, the pods and containers, Kubernetes clusters, load balancer, storage, they're all represented right there natively in the vCenter UI. And so we're able to take all of that and make it work for your existing VI admins. >> Well that's a, that's pretty wild, you know. It really builds off the vision that again, I think you kind of outlined, Kit, teased out it at VMworld which was the IT still sees vSphere, which is what they want to see, what they're used to seeing, but devs see Kubernetes. And really bringing those together in a unified environment so that, depending on what your job is, and what you're working on, that's what you're going to see and that's kind of unified environment. >> Yep. Yeah, as the demo showed, it is still vSphere at the center, but now there's two different experiences that you can have interacting with vSphere. The Kubernetes based one, which is of course great for developers and DevOps type folks, as well as a traditional vSphere interface, APIs, which is great for VI admins and IT operations. >> Right. And then, and really, it was interesting too. You teased out a lot. That was a good little preview if people knew what they were watching, but you talked about really cloud journey, and kind of this bifurcation of kind of classical school apps that are running in their classic VMs and then kind of the modern, you know, cloud native applications built on Kubernetes. And you outlined a really interesting thing that people often talk about the two ends of the spectrum and getting from one to the other but not really about kind of the messy middle, if you will. And this is really enabling people to pick where along that spectrum they can move their workloads or move their apps. >> Yeah, no. I think we think a lot about it like that. That we look at, we talk to customers and all of them have very clear visions on where they want to go. Their future state architecture. And that involves embracing cloud, it involves modernizing applications. And you know, as you mentioned, it's challenging for them because I think what a lot of customers see is this kind of, these two extremes. Either you're here where you are, with kind of the old current world, and you got the bright nirvana future on the far end there. And they believe that the only way to get there is to kind of make a leap from one side to the other. That you have to kind of change everything out from underneath you. And that's obviously very expensive, very time consuming and very error-prone as well. There's a lot of things that can go wrong there. And so I think what we're doing differently at VMware is really, to your point, is you call it the messy middle, I would say it's more like how do we offer stepping stones along that journey? Rather than making this one giant leap, we had to invest all this time and resources. How can we enable people to make smaller incremental steps each of which have a lot of business value but don't have a huge amount of cost? >> Right. And it's really enabling kind of this next gen application where there's a lot of things that are different about it but one of the fundamental things is where now the application defines the resources that it needs to operate versus the resources defining kind of the capabilities of what the application can do and that's where everybody is moving as quickly as makes sense, as you said, not all applications need to make that move but most of them should and most of them are and most of them are at least making that journey. So you see that? >> Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that certainly this is one of the big evolutions we're making in vSphere from looking historically at how we managed infrastructure, one of the things we enable in vSphere 7 is how we manage applications, right? So a lot of the things you would do in infrastructure management of setting up security rules or encryption settings or you know, your resource allocation, you would do this in terms of your physical and virtual infrastructure. You talk about it in terms of this VM is going to be encrypted or this VM is going to have this Firewall rule. And what we do in vSphere 7 is elevate all of that to application centric management. So you actually look at an application and say I want this application to be constrained to this much CPU. Or I want this application to have these security rules on it. And so that shifts the focus of management really up to the application level. >> Jeff: Right. >> Yeah, and like, I would kind of even zoom back a little bit there and say, you know, if you look back, one thing we did with something like VSAN, before that, people had to put policies on a LUN, you know, an actual storage LUN and a storage array. And then by virtue of a workload being placed on that array, it inherited certain policies, right? And so VSAN really turned that around and allows you to put the policy on the VM. But what Jared's talking about now is that for a modern workload, a modern workload's not a single VM, it's a collection of different things. We got some containers in there, some VMs, probably distributed, maybe even some on-prem, some in the cloud, and so how do you start managing that more holistically? And this notion of really having an application as a first-class entity that you can now manage inside of vSphere, it's a really powerful and very simplifying one. >> Right. And why this is important is because it's this application centric point of view which enables the digital transformation that people are talking about all the time. That's a nice big word, but the rubber hits the road is how do you execute and deliver applications, and more importantly, how do you continue to evolve them and change them based on either customer demands or competitive demands or just changes in the marketplace? >> Yeah, well you look at something like a modern app that maybe has a hundred VMs that are part of it and you take something like compliance, right? So today, if I want to check if this app is compliant, I got to go look at every individual VM and make sure it's locked down, and hardened, and secured the right way. But now instead, what I can do is I can just look at that one application object inside of vCenter, set the right security settings on that, and I can be assured that all the different objects inside of it are going to inherit that stuff. So it really simplifies that. It also makes it so that that admin can handle much larger applications. You know, if you think about vCenter today you might log in and see a thousand VMs in your inventory. When you log in with vSphere 7, what you see is a few dozen applications. So a single admin can manage a much larger pool of infrastructure, many more applications than they could before because we automate so much of that operation. >> And it's not just the scale part, which is obviously really important, but it's also the rate of change. And this notion of how do we enable developers to get what they want to get done, done, i.e., building applications, while at the same time enabling the IT operations teams to put the right sort of guardrails in place around compliance and security, performance concerns, these sorts of elements. And so by being able to have the IT operations team really manage that logical application at that more abstract level and then have the developer be able to push in new containers or new VMs or whatever they need inside of that abstraction, it actually allows those two teams to work actually together and work together better. They're not stepping over each other but in fact now, they can both get what they need to get done, done, and do so as quickly as possible but while also being safe and in compliance and so forth. >> Right. So there's a lot more to this. This is a very significant release, right? Again, lot of foreshadowing if you go out and read the tea leaves, it's a pretty significant, you know, kind of re-architecture of many parts of vSphere. So beyond the Kubernetes, you know, kind of what are some of the other things that are coming out in this very significant release? >> Yeah, that's a great question because we tend to talk a lot about Kubernetes, what was Project Pacific but is now just part of vSphere, and certainly that is a very large aspect of it but to your point, vSphere 7 is a massive release with all sorts of other features. And so instead of a demo here, let's pull up some slides and we'll take a look at what's there. So outside of Kubernetes, there's kind of three main categories that we think about when we look at vSphere 7. So the first one is simplified lifecycle management. And then really focus on security is the second one, and then applications as well, but both including the cloud native apps that couldn't fit in the Kubernetes bucket as well as others. And so we go on the first one, the first column there, there's a ton of stuff that we're doing around simplifying lifecycle. So let's go to the next slide here where we can dive in a little bit more to the specifics. So we have this new technology, vSphere life cycle management, vLCM, and the idea here is how do we dramatically simplify upgrades, life cycle management of the ESX clusters and ESX hosts? How do we make them more declarative with a single image that you can now specify for an entire cluster. We find that a lot of our vSphere admins, especially at larger scales, have a really tough time doing this. There's a lot of in and outs today, it's somewhat tricky to do. And so we want to make it really really simple and really easy to automate as well. >> Right. So if you're doing Kubernetes on Kubernetes, I suppose you're going to have automation on automation, right? Because upgrading to the seven is probably not an inconsequential task. >> And yeah, and going forward and allowing, you know, as we start moving to deliver a lot of this great vSphere functionality at a more rapid clip, how do we enable our customers to take advantage of all those great things we're putting out there as well? >> Right. Next big thing you talk about is security. >> Yep. >> And we just got back from RSA, thank goodness we got that show in before all the madness started. >> Yep. >> But everyone always talked about security's got to be baked in from the bottom to the top. So talk about kind of the changes in the security. >> So, done a lot of things around security. Things around identity federation, things around simplifying certificate management, you know, dramatic simplifications there across the board. One I want to focus on here on the next slide is actually what we call vSphere trust authority. And so with that one what we're looking at here is how do we reduce the potential attack surfaces and really ensure there's a trusted computing base? When we talk to customers, what we find is that they're nervous about a lot of different threats including even internal ones, right? How do they know all the folks that work for them can be fully trusted? And obviously if you're hiring someone, you somewhat trust them but you know, how do you implement the concept of lease privilege? Right? >> Right. >> Jeff: Or zero trust, right, is a very hot topic >> Yeah, exactly. in security. >> So the idea with trust authority is that we can specify a small number of physical ESX hosts that you can really lock down and ensure are fully secure. Those can be managed by a special vCenter server which is in turn very locked down, only a few people have access to it. And then those hosts and that vCenter can then manage other hosts that are untrusted and can use attestation to actually prove that okay, this untrusted host haven't been modified, we know they're okay so they're okay to actually run workloads on they're okay to put data on and that sort of thing. So it's this kind of like building block approach to ensure that businesses can have a very small trust base off of which they can build to include their entire vSphere environment. >> Right. And then the third kind of leg of the stool is, you know, just better leveraging, you know, kind of a more complex asset ecosystem, if you will, with things like FPGAs and GPUs and you know, >> Yeah. kind of all of the various components that power these different applications which now the application can draw the appropriate resources as needed, so you've done a lot of work there as well. >> Yeah, there's a ton of innovation happening in the hardware space. As you mentioned, all sorts of accelerateds coming out. We all know about GPUs, and obviously what they can do for machine learning and AI type use cases, not to mention 3-D rendering. But you know, FPGAs and all sorts of other things coming down the pike as well there. And so what we found is that as customers try to roll these out, they have a lot of the same problems that we saw on the very early days of virtualization. I.e., silos of specialized hardware that different teams were using. And you know, what you find is all things we found before. You find very low utilization rates, inability to automate that, inability to manage that well, put in security and compliance and so forth. And so this is really the reality that we see at most customers. And it's funny because, and so much you think, well wow, shouldn't we be past this? As an industry, shouldn't we have solved this already? You know, we did this with virtualization. But as it turns out, the virtualization we did was for compute, and then storage and network, but now we really need to virtualize all these accelerators. And so that's where this Bitfusion technology that we're including now with vSphere really comes to the forefront. So if you see in the current slide we're showing here, the challenges that just these separate pools of infrastructure, how do you manage all that? And so if you go to the, if we go to the next slide what we see is that with Bitfusion, you can do the same thing that we saw with compute virtualization. You can now pool all these different silos infrastructure together so they become one big pool of GPUs of infrastructure that anyone in an organization can use. We can, you know, have multiple people sharing a GPU. We can do it very dynamically. And the great part of it is is that it's really easy for these folks to use. They don't even need to think about it. In fact, integrates seamlessly with their existing workflows. >> So it's pretty interesting 'cause of the classifications of the assets now are much larger, much varied, and much more workload specific, right? That's really the opportunity slash challenge that you guys are addressing. >> They are. >> A lot more diverse, yep. And so like, you know, a couple other things just, now, I don't have a slide on it, but just things we're doing to our base capabilities. Things around DRS and VMotion. Really massive evolutions there as well to support a lot of these bigger workloads, right? So you look at some of the massive SAP HANA, or Oracle Databases. And how do we ensure that VMotion can scale to handle those without impacting their performance or anything else there. Making DRS smarter about how it does load balancing and so forth. >> Jeff: Right. >> So a lot of the stuff is not just kind of brand new, cool new accelerator stuff, but it's also how do we ensure the core apps people have already been running for many years, we continue to keep up with the innovation and scale there as well. >> Right. All right, so Jared, I give you the last word. You've been working on this for a while, there's a whole bunch of admins that have to sit and punch keys. What do you tell them, what should they be excited about, what are you excited for them in this new release? >> I think what I'm excited about is how, you know, IT can really be an enabler of the transformation of modern apps, right? I think today you look at a lot of these organizations and what ends up happening is the app team ends up sort of building their own infrastructure on top of IT's infrastructure, right? And so now I think we can shift that story around. I think that there's, you know, there's an interesting conversation that a lot of IT departments and app dev teams are going to be having over the next couple years about how do we really offload some of these infrastructure tasks from the dev team, make you more productive, give you better performance, availability, disaster recovery, and these kinds of capabilities. >> Awesome. Well, Jared, congratulation, again both of you, for you getting the release out. I'm sure it was a heavy lift and it's always good to get it out in the world and let people play with it and thanks for sharing a little bit more of a technical deep-dive. I'm sure there's a ton more resources for people that even want to go down into the weeds. So thanks for stopping by. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right, he's Jared, he's Kit, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're in the Palo Alto studios. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(bright upbeat music) >> Hello and welcome to the Palo Alto Studios, theCube. I'm John Furrier, we here for a special Cube Conversation and special report, big news from VMware to discuss the launch of the availability of vSphere 7. I'm here with Krish Prasad SVP and General Manager of the vSphere Business and Cloud Platform Business Unit. And Paul Turner, VP of vSphere Product Management. Guys, thanks for coming in and talking about the big news. >> Thank you for having us. >> You guys announced some interesting things back in March around containers, Kubernetes and vSphere. Krish, tell us about the hard news what's being announced? >> Today we are announcing the general availability of vSphere 7. John, it's by far the biggest release that we have done in the last 10 years. We premiered it as project Pacific few months ago. With this release, we are putting Kubernetes native support into the vSphere platform. What that allows us to do is give customers the ability to run both modern applications based on Kubernetes and containers, as well as traditional VM based applications on the same platform. And it also allows the IT departments to provide their developers, cloud operating model using the VMware cloud foundation that is powered by this release. This is a key part of our (murmurs) portfolio solutions and products that we announced this year. And it is targeted fully at the developers of modern applications. >> And the specific news is vSphere.. >> Seven is generally available. >> Generally a vSphere 7? >> Yes. >> So let's on the trend line here, the relevance is what? What's the big trend line, that this is riding obviously we saw the announcements at VMware last year, and throughout the year, there's a lot of buzz. Pat Gelsinger says, "There's a big wave here with Kubernetes." What does this announcement mean for you guys with the marketplace trend? >> Yes what Kubernetes is really about is people trying to have an agile operation, they're trying to modernize the IT applications. And the best way to do that, is build off your current platform, expand it and make it a an innovative, an Agile Platform for you to run Kubernetes applications and VM applications together. And not just that customers are also looking at being able to manage a hybrid cloud environment, both on-prem and public cloud together. So they want to be able to evolve and modernize their application stack, but modernize their infrastructure stack, which means hybrid cloud operations with innovative applications Kubernetes or container based applications and VMs. >> What's exciting about this trend, Krish, we were talking about this at VMworld last year, we had many conversations around cloud native, but you're seeing cloud native becoming the operating model for modern business. I mean, this is really the move to the cloud. If you look at the successful enterprises, leaving the suppliers, the on premises piece, if not moved to the cloud native marketplace technologies, the on-premise isn't effective. So it's not so much on-premises going away, we know it's not, but it's turning into cloud native. This is the move to the cloud generally, this is a big wave. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, John, if you think about it on-premise, we have, significant market share, we are by far the leader in the market. And so what we are trying to do with this, is to allow customers to use the current platform they are using, but bring their modern application development on top of the same platform. Today, customers tend to set up stacks, which are different, so you have a Kubernetes stack, you have stack for the traditional applications, you have operators and administrators who are specialized in Kubernetes on one side, and you have the traditional VM operators on the other side. With this move, what we are saying is that you can be on the same common platform, you can have the same administrators who are used to administering the environment that you already had, and at the same time, offer the developers what they like, which is Kubernetes dial-tone, that they can come and deploy their applications on the same platform that you use for traditional applications. >> Yeah, Paul, Pat said Kubernetes can be the dial-tone of the internet. Most millennials might even know what dial-tone is. But what he meant is that's the key fabric, that's going to orchestrate. And we've heard over the years skill gap, skill gap, not a lot of skills out there. But when you look at the reality of skills gap, it's really about skills gaps and shortages, not enough people, most CIOs and chief information security officers, that we talk to, say, I don't want to fork my development teams, I don't want to have three separate teams, I don't have to, I want to have automation, I want an operating model that's not going to be fragmented. This kind of speaks to this whole idea of, interoperability and multi cloud. This seems to be the next big way behind hybrid. >> I think it is the next big wave, the thing that customers are looking for is a cloud operating model. They like the ability for developers to be able to invoke new services on demand in a very agile way. And we want to bring that cloud operating model to on-prem, to Google Cloud, to Amazon cloud to Microsoft Cloud to any of our VCPP partners. You get the same cloud operating experience. And it's all driven by a Kubernetes based dial-tone that's effective and available within this platform. So by bringing a single infrastructure platform that can run in this hybrid manner, and give you the cloud operating agility the developers are looking for, that's what's key in version seven. >> Does Pat Gelsinger mean when he says dial-tone of the internet Kubernetes. Does he mean always on? or what does he mean specifically? Just that it's always available? what's the meaning behind that phrase? >> The first thing he means is that developers can come to the infrastructure, which is, The VMware Cloud Foundation, and be able to work with a set of API's that are Kubernetes API's. So developers understand that, they are looking for that. They understand that dial-tone, right? And you come to our VMware cloud foundation that runs across all these clouds, you get the same API set that you can use to deploy that application. >> Okay, so let's get into the value here of vSphere 7, how does VMware and vSphere 7 specifically help customers? Isn't just bolting on Kubernetes to vSphere, some will say is that's simple or (murmurs) you're running product management no, it's not that easy. Some people say, "He is bolting Kubernetes on vSphere." >> it's not that easy. So one of the things, if anybody has actually tried deploying Kubernetes, first, it's highly complicated. And so definitely one of the things that we're bringing is you call it a bolt on, but it's certainly not like that we are making it incredibly simple. You talked about IT operational shortages, customers want to be able to deploy Kubernetes environments in a very simple way. The easiest way that you can do that is take your existing environment that route 90% of IT, and just turn on the Kubernetes dial-tone, and it is as simple as that. Now, it's much more than that, in version seven, as well, we're bringing in a couple things that are very important. You also have to be able to manage at scale, just like you would in the cloud, you want to be able to have infrastructure, almost self manage and upgrade and lifecycle manage itself. And so we're bringing in a new way of managing infrastructure so that you can manage just large scale environments, both on-premise and public cloud environments at scale. And then associated with that as well is you must make it secure. So there's a lot of enhancements we're building into the platform around what we call intrinsic security, which is how can we actually build in a truly a trusted platform for your developers and IT. >> I was just going to touch on your point about this, the shortage of IT staff, and how we are addressing that here. The way we are addressing that, is that the IT administrators that are used to administering vSphere can continue to administer this enhanced platform with Kubernetes, the same way they administered the older releases, so they don't have to learn anything new. They are just working the same way. We are not changing any tools, process, technologies. >> So same as it was before? >> Same as before. >> More capability. >> More capability. And developers can come in and they see new capabilities around Kubernetes. So it's a best of both worlds. >> And what was the pain point that you guys are solving? Obviously, the ease of use is critical, obviously, operationally, I get that. As you look at the cloud native developer cycles, infrastructure as code means, as app developers, on the other side, taking advantage of it. What's the real pain point that you guys are solving with vSphere 7. >> So I think it's multiple factors. So first is we've talked about agility a few times, there is DevOps is a real trend inside an IT organizations. They need to be able to build and deliver applications much quicker, they need to be able to respond to the business. And to do that, what they are doing is they need infrastructure that is on demand. So what we're really doing in the core Kubernetes kind of enablement, is allowing that on demand fulfillment of infrastructure, so you get that agility that you need. But it's not just tied to modern applications. It's also all of your existing business applications and your monitoring applications on one platform, which means that you've got a very simple and low cost way of managing large scale IT infrastructure. So that's a huge piece as well. And then I do want to emphasize a couple of other things. We're also bringing in new capabilities for AI and ML applications for SAP HANA databases, where we can actually scale to some of the largest business applications out there. And you have all of the capabilities like the GPU awareness and FPGA awareness that we built into the platform, so that you can truly run this as the fastest accelerated platform for your most extreme applications. So you've got the ability to run those applications, as well as your Kubernetes and Container based application. >> That's the accelerated application innovation piece of the announcement right? >> That's right, yeah. It's quite powerful that we've actually brought in, basically new hardware awareness into the product and expose that to your developers, whether that's through containers or through VMs. >> Krish, I want to get your thoughts on the ecosystem and then the community but I want to just dig into one feature you mentioned. I get the lifestyle improvement, life lifecycle improvement, I get the application acceleration innovation, but the intrinsic security is interesting. Could you take a minute, explain what that is? >> Yeah, so there's a few different aspects. One is looking at how can we actually provide a trusted environment. And that means that you need to have a way that the key management that even your administrator is not able to get keys to the kingdom, as we would call it. You want to have a controlled environment that, some of the worst security challenges inside in some of the companies has been your internal IT staff. So you've got to have a way that you can run a trusted environment independent. We've got vSphere Trust Authority that we released in version seven, that actually gives you a secure environment for actually managing your keys to the kingdom effectively your certificates. So you've got this, continuous runtime. Now, not only that, we've actually gone and taken our carbon black features, and we're actually building in full support for carbon black into the platform. So that you've got native security of even your application ecosystem. >> Yeah, that's been coming up a lot conversations, the carbon black and the security piece. Krish obviously vSphere everywhere having that operating model makes a lot of sense, but you have a lot of touch points, you got cloud, hyper scalars got the edge, you got partners. >> We have that dominant market share on private cloud. We are on Amazon, as you will know, Azure, Google, IBM Cloud, Oracle Cloud. So all the major clouds, there is a vSphere stack running. So it allows customers if you think about it, it allows customers to have the same operating model, irrespective of where their workload is residing. They can set policies, components, security, they set it once, it applies to all their environments across this hybrid cloud, and it's all supported by our VMware Cloud Foundation, which is powered by vSphere 7. >> Yeah, I think having that, the cloud as API based having connection points and having that reliable easy to use is critical operating model. Alright guys, so let's summarize the announcement. What do you guys their takeaway from this vSphere 7, what is the bottom line? What's it really mean? (Paul laughs) >> I think what we're, if we look at it for developers, we are democratizing Kubernetes. We already are in 90% of IT environments out there are running vSphere. We are bringing to every one of those vSphere environments and all of the virtual infrastructure administrators, they can now manage Kubernetes environments, you can you can manage it by simply upgrading your environment. That's a really nice position rather than having independent kind of environments you need to manage. So I think that is one of the key things that's in here. The other thing though, I don't think any other platform out there, other than vSphere that can run in your data center in Google's, in Amazon's, in Microsoft's, in thousands of VCPP partners. You have one hybrid platform that you can run with. And that's got operational benefits, that's got efficiency benefits, that's got agility benefits. >> Great. >> Yeah, I would just add to that and say that, look, we want to meet customers, where they are in their journey. And we want to enable them to make business decisions without technology getting in the way. And I think the announcement that we made today, with vSphere 7, is going to help them accelerate their digital transformation journey, without making trade offs on people, process and technology. And there is more to come. Look, we are laser focused on making our platform the best in the industry, for running all kinds of applications and the best platform for a hybrid and multi cloud. And so you will see more capabilities coming in the future. Stay tuned. >> Well, one final question on this news announcement, which is awesome, vSphere, core product for you guys, if I'm the customer, tell me why it's going to be important five years from now? >> Because of what I just said, it is the only platform that is going to be running across all the public clouds, which will allow you to have an operational model that is consistent across the cloud. So think about it. If you go to Amazon native, and then you have a workload in Azure, you're going to have different tools, different processes, different people trained to work with those clouds. But when you come to VMware and you use our Cloud Foundation, you have one operating model across all these environments, and that's going to be game changing. >> Great stuff, great stuff. Thanks for unpacking that for us. Congratulations on the announcement. >> Thank you. >> vSphere 7, news special report here, inside theCube cCnversation, I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music) >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCube. We are having a very special Cube Conversation and kind of the the ongoing unveil, if you will of the new VMware vSphere 7.0 we're going to get a little bit more of a technical deep dive here today we're excited to have longtime Cube alumni, Kit Colbert here, is the VP and CTO of Cloud Platform at VMware. Kit, great to see you. And, and new to theCube, Jared Rosoff. He's a Senior Director of Product Management VMware, and I'm guessing had a whole lot to do with this build. So Jared, first off, congratulations for birthing this new release. And great to have you on board. >> Feels pretty good, great to be here. >> All right, so let's just jump into it. From kind of a technical aspect, what is so different about vSphere 7? >> Yeah, great. So vSphere 7, bakes Kubernetes right into the virtualization platform. And so this means that as a developer, I can now use Kubernetes to actually provision and control workloads inside of my vSphere environment. And it means as an IT admin, I'm actually able to deliver Kubernetes and containers to my developers really easily right on top of the platform I already run. >> So I think we had kind of a sneaking suspicion that might be coming with the acquisition of the FTO team. So really exciting news. And I think Kit you tease it out quite a bit at VMware last year about really enabling customers to deploy workloads across environments, regardless of whether that's on-prem, public cloud, this public cloud, that public cloud. So this really is the realization of that vision. >> It is, yeah. So, we talked at VMworld about project Pacific, this technology preview, and as Jared mentioned, what that was, is how do we take Kubernetes and really build it into vSphere. As you know, we had Hybrid Cloud Vision for quite a while now. How do we proliferate vSphere to as many different locations as possible. Now part of the broader VMware Cloud Foundation portfolio. And as we've gotten more and more of these instances in the cloud on-premises, at the edge, with service providers, there's a secondary question, how do we actually evolve that platform? So it can support not just the existing workloads, but also modern workloads as well. >> All right. So I think you brought some pictures for us a little demo. So why (murmurs) and let's see what it looks like. You guys can keep the demo? >> Narrator: So we're going to start off looking at a developer actually working with the new VMware Cloud Foundation for and vSphere 7. So what you're seeing here is a developer is actually using Kubernetes to deploy Kubernetes. The selfie in watermelon, (all laughing) So the developer uses this Kubernetes declarative syntax where they can describe a whole Kubernetes cluster. And the whole developer experience now is driven by Kubernetes. They can use the coop control tool and all of the ecosystem of Kubernetes API's and tool chains to provision workloads right into vSphere. And so, that's not just provisioning workloads, though. This is also key to the developer being able to explore the things they've already deployed, so go look at, hey, what's the IP address that got allocated to that? Or what's the CPU load on this workload I just deployed. On top of Kubernetes, we've integrated a Container Registry into vSphere. So here we see a developer pushing and pulling container images. And one of the amazing things about this is, from an infrastructure is code standpoint. Now, the developers infrastructure as well as their software is all unified in source control. I can check in, not just my code, but also the description of the Kubernetes environment and storage and networking and all the things that are required to run that app. So now we're looking at sort of a side by side view, where on the right hand side is the developer continuing to deploy some pieces of their application and on the left hand side, we see vCenter. And what's key here is that as the developer deploys new things through Kubernetes, those are showing up right inside of the vCenter console. And so the developer and IT are seeing exactly the same things, the same names, and so this means what a developer calls their IT department and says, "Hey, I got a problem with my database," we don't spend the next hour trying to figure out which VM they're talking about. They got the same name, they see the same information. So what we're going to do is that, we're going to push the the developer screen aside and start digging into the vSphere experience. And what you'll see here is that vCenter is the vCenter you've already known and love, but what's different is that now it's much more application focused. So here we see a new screen inside of vCenter vSphere namespaces. And so these vSphere namespaces represent whole logical applications, like the whole distributed system now as a single object inside of vCenter. And when I click into one of these apps, this is a managed object inside of vSphere. I can click on permissions, and I can decide which developers have the permission to deploy or read the configuration of one of these namespaces. I can hook this into my active directory infrastructure, so I can use the same, corporate credentials to access the system, I tap into all my existing storage. So, this platform works with all of the existing vSphere storage providers. I can use storage policy based management to provide storage for Kubernetes. And it's hooked in with things like DRS, right? So I can define quotas and limits for CPU and memory, and all that's going to be enforced by DRS inside the cluster. And again, as an admin, I'm just using vSphere, but to the developer, they're getting a whole Kubernetes experience out of this platform. Now, vSphere also now sucks in all this information from the Kubernetes environment. So besides, seeing the VMs and things that developers have deployed, I can see all of the desired state specifications, all the different Kubernetes objects that the developers have created, the compute network and storage objects, they're all integrated right inside the vCenter console. And so once again, from a diagnostics and troubleshooting perspective, this data is invaluable, often saves hours, just to try to figure out what we're even talking about more trying to resolve an issue. So, as you can see, this is all baked right into vCenter. The vCenter experience isn't transformed a lot, we get a lot of VI admins who look at this and say, "Where's the Kubernetes?" And they're surprised. They're like, they've been managing Kubernetes all this time, it just looks, it looks like the vSphere experience they've already got. But all those Kubernetes objects, the pods and containers, Kubernetes clusters, load balancer stores, they're all represented right there natively in the vCenter UI. And so we're able to take all of that and make it work for your existing VI admins. >> Well, it's pretty wild. It really builds off the vision that again, I think you kind of outlined Kit teased out at VMworld, which was, the IT still sees vSphere, which is what they want to see, what they're used to seeing, but (murmurs) see Kubernetes and really bringing those together in a unified environment. So that, depending on what your job is and what you're working on, that's what you're going to see in this kind of unified environment. >> Yeah, as the demo showed, (clears throat) it is still vSphere at the center, but now there's two different experiences that you can have interacting with vSphere, Kubernetes base one, which is of course great for developers and DevOps type folks, as well as the traditional vSphere interface API's, which is great for VI admins and IT operations. >> And then it really is interesting too, you tease that a lot. That was a good little preview, people knew they're watching. But you talked about really cloud journey and kind of this bifurcation of kind of classical school apps that are that are running in their classic VMs, and then kind of the modern, kind of cloud native applications built on Kubernetes. And you outlined a really interesting thing that people often talk about the two ends of the spectrum, and getting from one to the other, but not really about kind of the messy middle, if you will, and this is really enabling people to pick where along that spectrum, they can move their workloads or move their apps. >> Yeah, I think we think a lot about it like that, we talk to customers, and all of them have very clear visions on where they want to go, their future state architecture. And that involves embracing cloud and involves modernizing applications. And you know, as you mentioned, it's challenging for them. Because I think what a lot of customers see is this kind of these two extremes either you're here where you are, kind of the old current world, and you got the bright Nirvana future on the far end there. And they believe that the only way to get there is to kind of make a leap from one side to the other, they have to kind of change everything out from underneath you. And that's obviously very expensive, very time consuming, and very error prone as well. There's a lot of things that can go wrong there. And so I think what we're doing differently at VMware is really to your point as you call it, the messy middle, I would say it's more like, how do we offer stepping stones along that journey? Rather than making this one giant leap we had to invest all this time and resources? How can we enable people to make smaller incremental steps, each of which have a lot of business value, but don't have a huge amount of cost? >> And it's really enabling kind of this next gen application, where there's a lot of things that are different about it. But one of the fundamental things is where now the application defines the resources that it needs to operate, versus the resources defining kind of the capabilities what the application can do. And that's where everybody is moving as quickly as makes sense. As you said, not all applications need to make that move, but most of them should, and most of them are, and most of them are at least making that journey. Do you see that? >> Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that, certainly this is one of the big evolutions we're making in vSphere from, looking historically at how we managed infrastructure, one of the things we enable in vSphere 7, is how we manage applications. So a lot of the things you would do in infrastructure management of setting up security rules or encryption settings, or, your resource allocation, you would do this in terms of your physical and virtual infrastructure, you talk about it in terms of, this VM is going to be encrypted, or this VM is going to have this firewall rule. And what we do in vSphere 7 is elevate all of that to application centric management. So you actually look at an application and say, I want this application to be constrained to this much CPU. Or I want this application to have these security rules on it. And so that shifts the focus of management really up to the application level. >> And like, I can even zoom back a little bit there and say, if you look back, one thing we did was something like vSAN before that people had to put policies on a LAN an actual storage LAN, and a storage array. And then by virtue of a workload being placed on that array, inherited certain policies. And so, vSAN will turn that around allows you to put the policy on the VM. But what Jared is talking about now is that for a modern workload, a modern workloads is not a single VM, it's a collection of different things. You got some containers in there, some VMs, probably distributed, maybe even some on-prem, some on the cloud. And so how do you start managing that more holistically? And this notion of really having an application as a first class entity that you can now manage inside of vSphere is really powerful and very simplified one. >> And why this is important is because it's this application centric point of view, which enables the digital transformation that people are talking about all the time. That's a nice big word, but when the rubber hits the road is how do you execute and deliver applications. And more importantly, how do you continue to evolve them and change them, based on on either customer demands or competitive demands, or just changes in the marketplace. >> Yeah when you look at something like a modern app that maybe has 100 VMs that are part of it, and you take something like compliance. So today, if I want to check if this app is compliant, I got to go look at every individual VM and make sure it's locked down hardened and secured the right way. But now instead, what I can do is I can just look at that one application object inside of vCenter, set the right security settings on that and I can be assured that all the different objects inside of it are going to inherit that stuff. So it really simplifies that. It also makes it so that that admin can handle much larger applications. If you think about vCenter today, you might log in and see 1000 VMs in your inventory. When you log in with vSphere 7, what you see is few dozen applications. So a single admin can manage much larger pool of infrastructure, many more applications than they could before. Because we automate so much of that operation. >> And it's not just the scale part, which is obviously really important, but it's also the rate of change. And this notion of how do we enable developers to get what they want to get done, done, i.e. building applications, while at the same time enabling the IT operations teams to put the right sort of guardrails in place around compliance and security performance concerns, these sorts of elements. And so being by being able to have the IT operations team really manage that logical application at that more abstract level, and then have the developer be able to push in new containers or new VMs or whatever they need inside of that abstraction. It actually allows those two teams to work actually together and work together better. They're not stepping over each other. But in fact, now they can both get what they need to get done, done, and do so as quickly as possible but while also being safe, and in compliance, and so forth. >> So there's a lot more to this, this is a very significant release, right? Again, a lot of foreshadowing, if you go out and read the tea leaves, it's a pretty significant kind of re-architecture of many, many parts of vSphere. So beyond the Kubernetes, kind of what are some of the other things that are coming out in this very significant release? >> Yeah, that's a great question, because we tend to talk a lot about Kubernetes, what was Project Pacific, but it's now just part of vSphere. And certainly, that is a very large aspect of it. But to your point, vSphere 7 is a massive release with all sorts of other features. And so there is a demo here, let's pull up some slides. And we're ready to take a look at what's there. So, outside of Kubernetes, there's kind of three main categories that we think about when we look at vSphere 7. So the first first one is simplified Lifecycle Management. And then really focused on security as a second one, and then applications as well, but both including, the cloud native apps that could fit in the Kubernetes bucket as well as others. And so we go on the first one, the first column there, there's a ton of stuff that we're doing, around simplifying life cycles. So let's go to the next slide here where we can dive in a little bit more to the specifics. So we have this new technology vSphere Lifecycle Management, vLCM. And the idea here is how do we dramatically simplify upgrades, lifecycle management of the ESX clusters and ESX hosts? How do we make them more declarative, with a single image, you can now specify for an entire cluster. We find that a lot of our vSphere admins, especially at larger scales, have a really tough time doing this. There's a lot of ins and outs today, it's somewhat tricky to do. And so we want to make it really, really simple and really easy to automate as well. >> So if you're doing Kubernetes on Kubernetes, I suppose you're going to have automation on automation, because upgrading to the sevens is probably not an inconsequential task. >> And yeah, and going forward and allowing you as we start moving to deliver a lot of this great VCR functionality at a more rapid clip. How do we enable our customers to take advantage of all those great things we're putting out there as well. >> Next big thing you talk about is security. >> Yep >> We just got back from RSA. Thank goodness, we got that show in before all the badness started. But everyone always talks about security is got to be baked in from the bottom to the top. Talk about kind of the the changes in the security. >> So I've done a lot of things around security, things around identity federation, things around simplifying certificate management, dramatic simplifications they're across the board. What I want to focus on here, on the next slide is actually what we call vSphere Trust Authority. And so with that one, what we're looking at here is how do we reduce the potential attack surfaces, and really ensure there's a trusted computing base? When we talk to customers, what we find is that they're nervous about a lot of different threats, including even internal ones, right? How do they know all the folks that work for them can be fully trusted. And obviously, if you're hiring someone, you somewhat trust them. How do you implement the concept of least privilege. >> Jeff: Or zero trust (murmurs) >> Exactly. So they idea with trust authority that we can specify a small number of physical ESX hosts that you can really lock down ensure a fully secure, those can be managed by a special vCenter Server, which is in turn very locked down, only a few people have access to it. And then those hosts and that vCenter can then manage other hosts that are untrusted and can use attestation to actually prove that, okay, this untrusted host haven't been modified, we know they're okay, so they're okay to actually run workloads or they're okay to put data on and that sort of thing. So it's this kind of like building block approach to ensure that businesses can have a very small trust base off of which they can build to include their entire vSphere environment. >> And then the third kind of leg of the stool is, just better leveraging, kind of a more complex asset ecosystem, if you will, with things like FPGAs and GPUs, and kind of all of the various components that power these different applications which now the application can draw the appropriate resources as needed. So you've done a lot of work there as well. >> Yeah, there's a ton of innovation happening in the hardware space, as you mentioned, all sorts of accelerators coming out. We all know about GPUs, and obviously what they can do for machine learning and AI type use cases, not to mention 3D rendering. But FPGAs, and all sorts of other things coming down the pike as well there. And so what we found is that as customers try to roll these out, they have a lot of the same problems that we saw in the very early days of virtualization, i.e. silos of specialized hardware that different teams were using. And what you find is, all the things we found before you find very low utilization rates, inability to automate that, inability to manage that well, putting security and compliance and so forth. And so this is really the reality that we see in most customers and it's funny because, and sometimes you think, "Wow, shouldn't we be past this?" As an industry should we have solved this already, we did this with virtualization. But as it turns out, the virtualization we did was for compute and then storage network. But now we really need to virtualize all these accelerators. And so that's where this bit fusion technology that we're including now with vSphere, really comes to the forefront. So if you see in the current slide, we're showing here, the challenges that just these separate pools of infrastructure, how do you manage all that? And so if the we go to the next slide, what we see is that, with that fusion, you can do the same thing that we saw with compute virtualization, you can now pool all these different silos infrastructure together. So they become one big pool of GPUs of infrastructure that anyone in an organization can use. We can, have multiple people sharing a GPU, we can do it very dynamically. And the great part of it is that it's really easy for these folks to use. They don't even need to think about it, in fact, integrates seamlessly with their existing workflows. >> So it's free, it's pretty cheap, because the classifications of the assets now are much, much larger, much varied and much more workload specific right. That's really the opportunity slash challenge there. >> They are a lot more diverse And so like, a couple other things just, I don't have a slide on it, but just things we're doing to our base capabilities, things around DRS and vMotion. Really massive evolutions there as well to support a lot of these bigger workloads, right. So you look at some of the massive SAP HANA or Oracle databases, and how do we ensure that vMotion can scale to handle those, without impacting their performance or anything else there? Making DRS smarter about how it does load balancing, and so forth. So a lot of the stuff not just kind of brand new, cool new accelerator stuff, but it's also how do we ensure the core as people have already been running for many years, we continue to keep up with the innovation and scale there as well. >> All right. So Jared I give you the last word. You've been working on this for a while. There's a whole bunch of admins that have to sit and punch keys. What do you tell them? What should they be excited about? What are you excited for them in this new release? >> I think what I'm excited about is how IT can really be an enabler of the transformation of modern apps. I think today, you look at all of these organizations, and what ends up happening is, the app team ends up sort of building their own infrastructure on top of IT infrastructure. And so, now, I think we can shift that story around. I think that there's an interesting conversation that a lot of IT departments and app dev teams are going to be having over the next couple of years about how do we really offload some of these infrastructure tasks from the dev team? Make you more productive, give you better performance, availability, disaster recovery and these kinds of capabilities. >> Awesome. Well, Jared, congratulation and Kit both of you for getting the release out. I'm sure it was a heavy lift. And it's always good to get it out in the world and let people play with it. And thanks for for sharing a little bit more of a technical deep dive into this ton more resources for people that didn't want to go down into the weeds. So thanks for stopping by. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Alright, he's Jared, he's Kit, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCube. We're in the Palo Alto Studios. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music) >> Hi, and welcome to a special Cube Conversation. I'm Stu Miniman, and we're digging into VMware vSphere 7 announcement. We've had conversations with some of the executives some of the technical people, but we know that there's no better way to really understand the technology than to talk to some of the practitioners that are using it. So really happy to have joined me on the program. I have Philip Buckley-Mellor, who is an infrastructure designer with British Telecom joining me digitally from across the pond. Phil, thanks so much for joining us. >> Nice too. >> Alright, so Phil, let's start of course, British Telecom, I think most people know, you know what BT is and it's, really sprawling company. Tell us a little bit about, your group, your role and what's your mandate. >> Okay, so, my group is called service platforms. It's the bit of BT that services all of our multi millions of our customers. So we have broadband, we have TV, we have mobile, we have DNS and email systems. And it's all about our customers. It's not a B2B part of BT, you're with me? We specifically focus on those kind of multi million customers that we've got in those various services. And in particular, my group we do infrastructure. we really do from data center all the way up to really about boot time or so we'll just pass boot time, and the application developers look after that stage and above. >> Okay, great, we definitely going to want to dig in and talk about that, that boundary between the infrastructure teams and the application teams. But let's talk a little bit first, we're talking about VMware. So, how long has your organization been doing VMware and tell us, what you see with the announcement that VMware is making for vSphere 7? >> Sure, well, I mean, we've had really great relationship with VMware for about 12, 13 years, something like that. And it's a absolutely key part of our infrastructure. It's written throughout BT, really, in every part of our operations, design, development, and the whole ethos of the company is based around a lot of VMware products. And so one of the challenges that we've got right now is application architectures are changing quite significantly at the moment, And as you know, in particular with serverless, and with containers and a whole bunch of other things like that. We're very comfortable with our ability to manage VMs and have been for a while. We currently use extensively we use vSphere NSXT, VROPs, login site, network insight and a whole bunch of other VMware constellation applications. And our operations teams know how to use that they know how to optimize, they know how to pass the plan, and (murmurs). So that's great. And that's been like that for half a decade at least, we've been really, really confident with our ability to deal with VMware environments. And along came containers and like, say, multi cloud as well. And what we were struggling with was the inability to have a single pane of glass, really on all of that, and to use the same people and the same processes to manage a different kind of technology. So we, we've been working pretty closely with VMware on a number of different containerization products. For several years now, I've worked really closely with the vSphere integrated containers, guys in particular, and now with the Pacific guys, with really the ideal that when we bring in version seven and the containerization aspects of version seven, we'll be in a position to have that single pane of glass to allow our operations team to really barely differentiate between what's a VM and what's a container. That's really the Holy Grail. So we'll be able to allow our developers to develop, our operations team to deploy and to operate, and our designers to see the same infrastructure, whether that's on-premises, cloud or off-premises, and be able to manage the whole piece in that respect. >> Okay, so Phil, really interesting things you walk through here, you've been using containers in a virtualized environment for a number of years, want to understand and the organizational piece just a little bit, because it sounds great, I manage all the environment, but, containers are a little bit different than VMs. if I think back, from an application standpoint, it was, let's stick it in a VM, I don't need to change it. And once I spin up a VM, often that's going to sit there for, months, if not years, as opposed to, I think about a containerization environment. It's, I really want to pool of resources, I'm going to create and destroy things all the time. So, bring us inside that organizational piece. How much will there needs to be interaction and more interaction or change in policies between your infrastructure team and your app dev team? >> Well, yes, me absolutely right, that's the nature and the timescales that we're talking about between VMs and containers is wildly different. As you say, we probably almost certainly have Vms in place now that were in place in 2018 certainly I imagine, and haven't really been touched. Whereas as you say, VMs and a lot of people talk about spinning them all up all the time. There are parts of architecture that require that, in particular, the very client facing bursty stuff, does require spinning up and spinning down pretty quickly. But some of our some of our other containers do sit around for weeks, if not months, really does depend on the development cycle aspects of that, but the heartbeat that we've really had was just visualizing it. And there are a number of different products out there that allow you to see the behavior of your containers and understand the resource requirements that they are having at any given moment. Allies troubleshoot and seven. But they need any problems, the new things that we we will have to get used to. And also it seems that there's an awful lot of competing products, quite a Venn diagram of in terms of functionality and user abilities to do that. So again coming back to being able to manage through vSphere. And to be able to have a list of VMs on alongside is a list of containers and to be able to use policies to define how they behave in terms of their networking, to be able to essentially put our deployments on rails by using in particular tag based policies, means that we can take the onus of security, we can take the onus of performance management and capacity management away from the developers who don't really have a lot of time, and they can just get on with their job, which is to develop new functionality, and help our customers. So that means then we have to be really responsible about defining those policies, and making sure that they're adhered to. But again, we know how to do that with the VMs through vSphere. So the fact that we can actually apply that straight away, just with slightly different compute unit, is really what we're talking about here is ideal, and then to be able to extend that into multiple clouds as well, because we do use multiple clouds where (murmurs) and as your customers, and we're between them is an opportunity that we can't do anything other than be excited about (murmurs) >> Yeah, Phil, I really like how you described really the changing roles that are happening there in your organization need to understand, right? There's things that developers care about the they want to move fast, they want to be able to build new things and there's things that they shouldn't have to worry about. And, you know, we talked about some of the new world and it's like, oh, can the platform underneath this take care of it? Well, there's some things platforms take care of, there's some things that the software or your team is going to need to understand. So maybe if you could dig in a little bit, some of those, what are the drivers from your application portfolio? What is the business asking of your organization that's driving this change? And being one of those tail winds pushing you towards, Kubernetes and the vSphere 7 technologies? >> Well, it all comes down to the customers, right? Our customers want new functionality. They want new integrations, they want new content, they want better stability and better performance and our ability to extend or contracting capacity as needed as well. So there will be ultimate challenges that we want to give our customers the best possible experience of our products and services. So we have to have address that really from a development perspective, it's our developers have the responsibility to, design and deploy those. So, in infrastructure, we have to act as a firm, foundation, really underneath all of that. That allows them to know that what they spend their time and develop and want to push out to our customers is something that can be trusted is performant. We understand where the capacity requirements are coming from in the short term, and in the long term for that, and he's secure as well, obviously, is a big aspect to it. And so really, we're just providing our developers with the best possible chance of giving our customers what will hopefully make them delighted. >> Great, Phil, you've mentioned a couple of times that you're using public clouds as well as, your VMware firm. Want to make sure I if you can explain a little bit a couple of things. Number one is, when it comes to your team, especially your infrastructure team, how much are they in involved with setting up some of the basic pieces or managing things like performance in the public cloud. And secondly, when you look at your applications, or some of your clouds, some of your applications hybrid going between the data center and the public cloud. And I haven't talked to too many customers that are doing applications that just live in any cloud and move things around. But you know, maybe if you could clarify those pieces as to, what cloud really means to your organization and your applications? >> Sure, well, I mean, tools. Cloud allows us to accelerate development, which is nice because it means we don't have to do on-premises capacity lifts for new pieces of functionality are so we can initially build in the cloud and test in the cloud. But very often, applications really make better sense, especially in the TV environment where people watch TV all the time. I mean, yes, there are peak hours and lighter hours of TV watching. Same goes for broadband really. But we generally were well more than an eight hour application profile. So what that allows us to do then is to have applications that are, well, it makes sense. We run them inside our organization where we have to run them in our organization for, data protection reasons or whatever, then we can do that as well. But where we say, for instance, we have a boxing match on. And we're going to be seeing an enormous spike in the amount of customers that want to sign up into our auto journey to allow them to view that and to gain access to that, well, why would you spend a lot of money on servers just for that level of additional capacity? So we do absolutely have hybrid applications, not sorry, hybrid blocks, we have blocks of sub applications, dozens of them really to support our platform. And what you would see is that if you were to look at our full application structure for one of the platforms, I mentioned, that some of the some of those application blocks have to run inside some can run outside and what we want to be able to do is to allow our operations team to define that, again, by policies to where they run, and to, have a system that allows us to transparently see where they're running, how they're running, and the implications of those decisions so that we can tune those maybe in the future as well. And that way, we best serve our customers. We got to get our customers yeah, what they need. >> All right, great, Phil, final question I have for you, you've been through a few iterations of looking at VMs containers, public cloud, what what advice would you give your peers with the announcement of vSphere 7 and how they can look at things today in 2020 versus what they might have looked at, say a year or two ago? >> Well, I'll be honest, I was a little bit surprised by vSphere 7. We knew that VMware will working on trying to make containers on the same level, both from a management deployment perspective as VMs. I mean, they're called VMware after all right? And we knew that they were looking at that. But I was surprised by just quite how quickly they've managed to almost completely reinvent the application, really. It's, you know, if you look at the whole Tansy stuff and the Mission Control stuff, I think a lot of people were blown away by just quite how happy VMware were to reinvent themselves from an application perspective, and to really leap forward. And this is, between version six and seven. I've been following these since version three, at least. And it's an absolutely revolutionary change in terms of the overall architecture. The aims to, to what they want to achieve with the application. And luckily, the nice thing is, is that if you're used to version six is not that big a deal, it's really not that big a deal to move forward at all, it's not such a big change to process and training and things like that. But my word, there's an awful lot of work underneath that, underneath the covers. And I'm really excited. And I think all the people in my position should really use take it as an opportunity to revisit what they can achieve with, in particular with vSphere, and with in combination with NSXT, it's quite hard to put into place unless you've seen the slides about it and unless you've seen the product, just how revolutionary the version seven is compared to previous versions, which have kind of evolved through a couple of years. So yeah, I think I'm really excited about it. And I know a lot of my peers or the companies that I speak with quite often are very excited about seven as well. So yeah, I'm really excited about though the whole base >> Well, Phil, thank you so much. Absolutely no doubt this is a huge move for VMware, the entire company and their ecosystem rallying around, help move to the next phase of where application developers and infrastructure need to go. Phil Buckley joining us from British Telecom. I'm Stu Miniman. Thank you so much for watching theCube. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are having a very special CUBE conversation and kind of the the ongoing unveil, if you will, of the new VMware vSphere 7.0. We're going to get a little bit more of a technical deep-dive here today and we're excited to have a longtime CUBE alumni. Kit Colbert here is the VP and CTO of Cloud platform at VMware. Kit, great to see you. >> Yeah, happy to be here. And new to theCUBE, Jared Rosoff. He's a Senior Director of Product Management of VMware and I'm guessing had a whole lot to do with this build. So Jared, first off, congratulations for birthing this new release and great to have you on board. >> Thanks, feels pretty great, great to be here. >> All right, so let's just jump into it. From kind of a technical aspect, what is so different about vSphere 7? >> Yeah, great. So vSphere 7 bakes Kubernetes right into the virtualization platform. And so this means that as a developer, I can now use Kubernetes to actually provision and control workloads inside of my vSphere environment. And it means as an IT admin, I'm actually able to deliver Kubernetes and containers to my developers really easily right on top of the platform I already run. >> So I think we had kind of a sneaking suspicion that that might be coming with the acquisition of the Heptio team. So really exciting news, and I think Kit, you teased it out quite a bit at VMware last year about really enabling customers to deploy workloads across environments, regardless of whether that's on-prem, public cloud, this public cloud, that public cloud, so this really is the realization of that vision. >> It is, yeah. So we talked at VMworld about Project Pacific, right, this technology preview. And as Jared mentioned of what that was, was how do we take Kubernetes and really build it into vSphere? As you know, we had a hybrid cloud vision for quite a while now. How do we proliferate vSphere to as many different locations as possible? Now part of the broader VMware cloud foundation portfolio. And you know, as we've gotten more and more of these instances in the cloud, on premises, at the edge, with service providers, there's a secondary question of how do we actually evolve that platform so it can support not just the existing workloads, but also modern workloads as well. >> Right. All right, so I think he brought some pictures for us, a little demo. So why don't we, >> Yeah. Why don't we jump over >> Yeah, let's dive into it. to there and let's see what it looks like? You guys can cue up the demo. >> Jared: Yeah, so we're going to start off looking at a developer actually working with the new VMware cloud foundation four and vSphere 7. So what you're seeing here is the developer's actually using Kubernetes to deploy Kubernetes. The self-eating watermelon, right? So the developer uses this Kubernetes declarative syntax where they can describe a whole Kubernetes cluster. And the whole developer experience now is driven by Kubernetes. They can use the coop control tool and all of the ecosystem of Kubernetes API's and tool chains to provision workloads right into vSphere. And so, that's not just provisioning workloads though, this is also key to the developer being able to explore the things they've already deployed. So go look at, hey, what's the IP address that got allocated to that? Or what's the CPU load on this workload I just deployed? On top of Kubernetes, we've integrated a Container Registry into vSphere. So here we see a developer pushing and pulling container images. And you know, one of the amazing things about this is from an infrastructure as code standpoint, now, the developer's infrastructure as well as their software is all unified in source control. I can check in not just my code, but also the description of the Kubernetes environment and storage and networking and all the things that are required to run that app. So now we're looking at a sort of a side-by-side view, where on the right hand side is the developer continuing to deploy some pieces of their application. And on the left hand side, we see vCenter. And what's key here is that as the developer deploys new things through Kubernetes, those are showing up right inside of the vCenter console. And so the developer and IT are seeing exactly the same things with the same names. And so this means when a developer calls, their IT department says, hey, I got a problem with my database. We don't spend the next hour trying to figure out which VM they're talking about. They got the same name, they see the same information. So what we're going to do is that, you know, we're going to push the the developer screen aside and start digging into the vSphere experience. And you know, what you'll see here is that vCenter is the vCenter you've already known and love, but what's different is that now it's much more application focused. So here we see a new screen inside of vCenter, vSphere namespaces. And so, these vSphere namespaces represent whole logical applications, like the whole distributed system now is a single object inside of vCenter. And when I click into one of these apps, this is a managed object inside of vSphere. I can click on permissions, and I can decide which developers have the permission to deploy or read the configuration of one of these namespaces. I can hook this into my Active Directory infrastructure. So I can use the same corporate credentials to access the system. I tap into all my existing storage. So this platform works with all of the existing vSphere storage providers. I can use storage policy based management to provide storage for Kubernetes. And it's hooked in with things like DRS, right? So I can define quotas and limits for CPU and memory, and all of that's going to be enforced by DRS inside the cluster. And again, as an admin, I'm just using vSphere. But to the developer, they're getting a whole Kubernetes experience out of this platform. Now, vSphere also now sucks in all this information from the Kubernetes environment. So besides seeing the VMs and things the developers have deployed, I can see all of the desired state specifications, all the different Kubernetes objects that the developers have created. The compute, network and storage objects, they're all integrated right inside the vCenter console. And so once again from a diagnostics and troubleshooting perspective, this data's invaluable. It often saves hours just in trying to figure out what we're even talking about when we're trying to resolve an issue. So as you can see, this is all baked right into vCenter. The vCenter experience isn't transformed a lot. We get a lot of VI admins who look at this and say, where's the Kubernetes? And they're surprised, they like, they've been managing Kubernetes all this time, it just looks like the vSphere experience they've already got. But all those Kubernetes objects, the pods and containers, Kubernetes clusters, load balancer, storage, they're all represented right there natively in the vCenter UI. And so we're able to take all of that and make it work for your existing VI admins. >> Well that's a, that's pretty wild, you know. It really builds off the vision that again, I think you kind of outlined, Kit, teased out it at VMworld which was the IT still sees vSphere, which is what they want to see, what they're used to seeing, but devs see Kubernetes. And really bringing those together in a unified environment so that, depending on what your job is, and what you're working on, that's what you're going to see and that's kind of unified environment. >> Yep. Yeah, as the demo showed, it is still vSphere at the center, but now there's two different experiences that you can have interacting with vSphere. The Kubernetes based one, which is of course great for developers and DevOps type folks, as well as a traditional vSphere interface, APIs, which is great for VI admins and IT operations. >> Right. And then, and really, it was interesting too. You teased out a lot. That was a good little preview if people knew what they were watching, but you talked about really cloud journey, and kind of this bifurcation of kind of classical school apps that are running in their classic VMs and then kind of the modern, you know, cloud native applications built on Kubernetes. And you outlined a really interesting thing that people often talk about the two ends of the spectrum and getting from one to the other but not really about kind of the messy middle, if you will. And this is really enabling people to pick where along that spectrum they can move their workloads or move their apps. >> Yeah, no. I think we think a lot about it like that. That we look at, we talk to customers and all of them have very clear visions on where they want to go. Their future state architecture. And that involves embracing cloud, it involves modernizing applications. And you know, as you mentioned, it's challenging for them because I think what a lot of customers see is this kind of, these two extremes. Either you're here where you are, with kind of the old current world, and you got the bright nirvana future on the far end there. And they believe that the only way to get there is to kind of make a leap from one side to the other. That you have to kind of change everything out from underneath you. And that's obviously very expensive, very time consuming and very error-prone as well. There's a lot of things that can go wrong there. And so I think what we're doing differently at VMware is really, to your point, is you call it the messy middle, I would say it's more like how do we offer stepping stones along that journey? Rather than making this one giant leap, we had to invest all this time and resources. How can we enable people to make smaller incremental steps each of which have a lot of business value but don't have a huge amount of cost? >> Right. And it's really enabling kind of this next gen application where there's a lot of things that are different about it but one of the fundamental things is where now the application defines the resources that it needs to operate versus the resources defining kind of the capabilities of what the application can do and that's where everybody is moving as quickly as makes sense, as you said, not all applications need to make that move but most of them should and most of them are and most of them are at least making that journey. So you see that? >> Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that certainly this is one of the big evolutions we're making in vSphere from looking historically at how we managed infrastructure, one of the things we enable in vSphere 7 is how we manage applications, right? So a lot of the things you would do in infrastructure management of setting up security rules or encryption settings or you know, your resource allocation, you would do this in terms of your physical and virtual infrastructure. You talk about it in terms of this VM is going to be encrypted or this VM is going to have this Firewall rule. And what we do in vSphere 7 is elevate all of that to application centric management. So you actually look at an application and say I want this application to be constrained to this much CPU. Or I want this application to have these security rules on it. And so that shifts the focus of management really up to the application level. >> Jeff: Right. >> Yeah, and like, I would kind of even zoom back a little bit there and say, you know, if you look back, one thing we did with something like VSAN, before that, people had to put policies on a LUN, you know, an actual storage LUN and a storage array. And then by virtue of a workload being placed on that array, it inherited certain policies, right? And so VSAN really turned that around and allows you to put the policy on the VM. But what Jared's talking about now is that for a modern workload, a modern workload's not a single VM, it's a collection of different things. We got some containers in there, some VMs, probably distributed, maybe even some on-prem, some in the cloud, and so how do you start managing that more holistically? And this notion of really having an application as a first-class entity that you can now manage inside of vSphere, it's a really powerful and very simplifying one. >> Right. And why this is important is because it's this application centric point of view which enables the digital transformation that people are talking about all the time. That's a nice big word, but the rubber hits the road is how do you execute and deliver applications, and more importantly, how do you continue to evolve them and change them based on either customer demands or competitive demands or just changes in the marketplace? >> Yeah, well you look at something like a modern app that maybe has a hundred VMs that are part of it and you take something like compliance, right? So today, if I want to check if this app is compliant, I got to go look at every individual VM and make sure it's locked down, and hardened, and secured the right way. But now instead, what I can do is I can just look at that one application object inside of vCenter, set the right security settings on that, and I can be assured that all the different objects inside of it are going to inherit that stuff. So it really simplifies that. It also makes it so that that admin can handle much larger applications. You know, if you think about vCenter today you might log in and see a thousand VMs in your inventory. When you log in with vSphere 7, what you see is a few dozen applications. So a single admin can manage a much larger pool of infrastructure, many more applications than they could before because we automate so much of that operation. >> And it's not just the scale part, which is obviously really important, but it's also the rate of change. And this notion of how do we enable developers to get what they want to get done, done, i.e., building applications, while at the same time enabling the IT operations teams to put the right sort of guardrails in place around compliance and security, performance concerns, these sorts of elements. And so by being able to have the IT operations team really manage that logical application at that more abstract level and then have the developer be able to push in new containers or new VMs or whatever they need inside of that abstraction, it actually allows those two teams to work actually together and work together better. They're not stepping over each other but in fact now, they can both get what they need to get done, done, and do so as quickly as possible but while also being safe and in compliance and so forth. >> Right. So there's a lot more to this. This is a very significant release, right? Again, lot of foreshadowing if you go out and read the tea leaves, it's a pretty significant, you know, kind of re-architecture of many parts of vSphere. So beyond the Kubernetes, you know, kind of what are some of the other things that are coming out in this very significant release? >> Yeah, that's a great question because we tend to talk a lot about Kubernetes, what was Project Pacific but is now just part of vSphere, and certainly that is a very large aspect of it but to your point, vSphere 7 is a massive release with all sorts of other features. And so instead of a demo here, let's pull up some slides and we'll take a look at >> Already? what's there. So outside of Kubernetes, there's kind of three main categories that we think about when we look at vSphere 7. So the first one is simplified lifecycle management. And then really focused on security is the second one, and then applications as well, but both including the cloud native apps that couldn't fit in the Kubernetes bucket as well as others. And so we go on the first one, the first column there, there's a ton of stuff that we're doing around simplifying lifecycle. So let's go to the next slide here where we can dive in a little bit more to the specifics. So we have this new technology, vSphere life cycle management, vLCM, and the idea here is how do we dramatically simplify upgrades, life cycle management of the ESX clusters and ESX hosts? How do we make them more declarative with a single image that you can now specify for an entire cluster. We find that a lot of our vSphere admins, especially at larger scales, have a really tough time doing this. There's a lot of in and outs today, it's somewhat tricky to do. And so we want to make it really really simple and really easy to automate as well. >> Right. So if you're doing Kubernetes on Kubernetes, I suppose you're going to have automation on automation, right? Because upgrading to the seven is probably not an inconsequential task. >> And yeah, and going forward and allowing, you know, as we start moving to deliver a lot of this great vSphere functionality at a more rapid clip, how do we enable our customers to take advantage of all those great things we're putting out there as well? >> Right. Next big thing you talk about is security. >> Yep. >> And we just got back from RSA, thank goodness we got that show in before all the madness started. >> Yep. >> But everyone always talked about security's got to be baked in from the bottom to the top. So talk about kind of the changes in the security. >> So, done a lot of things around security. Things around identity federation, things around simplifying certificate management, you know, dramatic simplifications there across the board. One I want to focus on here on the next slide is actually what we call vSphere trust authority. And so with that one what we're looking at here is how do we reduce the potential attack surfaces and really ensure there's a trusted computing base? When we talk to customers, what we find is that they're nervous about a lot of different threats including even internal ones, right? How do they know all the folks that work for them can be fully trusted? And obviously if you're hiring someone, you somewhat trust them but you know, how do you implement the concept of lease privilege? Right? >> Right. >> Jeff: Or zero trust, right, is a very hot topic >> Yeah, exactly. in security. >> So the idea with trust authority is that we can specify a small number of physical ESX hosts that you can really lock down and ensure are fully secure. Those can be managed by a special vCenter server which is in turn very locked down, only a few people have access to it. And then those hosts and that vCenter can then manage other hosts that are untrusted and can use attestation to actually prove that okay, this untrusted host haven't been modified, we know they're okay so they're okay to actually run workloads on they're okay to put data on and that sort of thing. So it's this kind of like building block approach to ensure that businesses can have a very small trust base off of which they can build to include their entire vSphere environment. >> Right. And then the third kind of leg of the stool is, you know, just better leveraging, you know, kind of a more complex asset ecosystem, if you will, with things like FPGAs and GPUs and you know, >> Yeah. kind of all of the various components that power these different applications which now the application can draw the appropriate resources as needed, so you've done a lot of work there as well. >> Yeah, there's a ton of innovation happening in the hardware space. As you mentioned, all sorts of accelerateds coming out. We all know about GPUs, and obviously what they can do for machine learning and AI type use cases, not to mention 3-D rendering. But you know, FPGAs and all sorts of other things coming down the pike as well there. And so what we found is that as customers try to roll these out, they have a lot of the same problems that we saw on the very early days of virtualization. I.e., silos of specialized hardware that different teams were using. And you know, what you find is all things we found before. You find very low utilization rates, inability to automate that, inability to manage that well, put in security and compliance and so forth. And so this is really the reality that we see at most customers. And it's funny because, and so much you think, well wow, shouldn't we be past this? As an industry, shouldn't we have solved this already? You know, we did this with virtualization. But as it turns out, the virtualization we did was for compute, and then storage and network, but now we really need to virtualize all these accelerators. And so that's where this Bitfusion technology that we're including now with vSphere really comes to the forefront. So if you see in the current slide we're showing here, the challenges that just these separate pools of infrastructure, how do you manage all that? And so if you go to the, if we go to the next slide what we see is that with Bitfusion, you can do the same thing that we saw with compute virtualization. You can now pool all these different silos infrastructure together so they become one big pool of GPUs of infrastructure that anyone in an organization can use. We can, you know, have multiple people sharing a GPU. We can do it very dynamically. And the great part of it is is that it's really easy for these folks to use. They don't even need to think about it. In fact, integrates seamlessly with their existing workflows. >> So it's pretty interesting 'cause of the classifications of the assets now are much larger, much varied, and much more workload specific, right? That's really the opportunity / challenge that you guys are addressing. >> They are. >> A lot more diverse, yep. And so like, you know, a couple other things just, now, I don't have a slide on it, but just things we're doing to our base capabilities. Things around DRS and vMotion. Really massive evolutions there as well to support a lot of these bigger workloads, right? So you look at some of the massive SAP HANA, or Oracle Databases. And how do we ensure that vMotion can scale to handle those without impacting their performance or anything else there. Making DRS smarter about how it does load balancing and so forth. >> Jeff: Right. >> So a lot of the stuff is not just kind of brand new, cool new accelerator stuff, but it's also how do we ensure the core apps people have already been running for many years, we continue to keep up with the innovation and scale there as well. >> Right. All right, so Jared, I give you the last word. You've been working on this for a while, there's a whole bunch of admins that have to sit and punch keys. What do you tell them, what should they be excited about, what are you excited for them in this new release? >> I think what I'm excited about is how, you know, IT can really be an enabler of the transformation of modern apps, right? I think today you look at a lot of these organizations and what ends up happening is the app team ends up sort of building their own infrastructure on top of IT's infrastructure, right? And so now I think we can shift that story around. I think that there's, you know, there's an interesting conversation that a lot of IT departments and app dev teams are going to be having over the next couple years about how do we really offload some of these infrastructure tasks from the dev team, make you more productive, give you better performance, availability, disaster recovery, and these kinds of capabilities. >> Awesome. Well, Jared, congratulation, again both of you, for you getting the release out. I'm sure it was a heavy lift and it's always good to get it out in the world and let people play with it and thanks for sharing a little bit more of a technical deep-dive. I'm sure there's a ton more resources for people that even want to go down into the weeds. So thanks for stopping by. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right, he's Jared, he's Kit, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're in the Palo Alto studios. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

Live from San Diego, California it's theCUBE! covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon brought to you by Red Hat a CloudNative computing foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, this is theCube's coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2019 in San Diego I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host for the week, John Troyer, and happy to welcome to the program, Tom Phelan, who's an HPE Fellow and was the BlueData CTO >> That's correct. >> And is now part of Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. Tom, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks, Stu. >> All right, so we talked with a couple of your colleagues earlier this morning. >> Right. >> About the HPE container platform. We're going to dig in a little bit deeper later. >> So, set the table for us as to really the problem statement that HP is going to solve here. >> Sure, so Blue Data which is what technologies we're talking about, we addressed the issues of how to run applications well in containers in the enterprise. Okay, what this involves is how do you handle security how do you handle Day-2 operations of upgrade of the software how do you bring CI and CD actions to all your applications. This is what the HPE container platform is all about. So, the announcement this morning, which went out was HPE is announcing the general availability of the HPE container platform, an enterprise solution that will run not only CloudNative applications, are typically called microservices applications, but also Legacy applications on Kubernetes and it's supported in a hybrid environment. So not only the main public cloud providers, but also on premise. And a little bit of divergence for HPE, HPE is selling this product, licensing this product to work on heterogeneous hardware. So not only HPE hardware, but other competitors' hardware as well. >> It's good, one of the things I've been hearing really over the last year is when we talked about Kubernetes, it resonated, for the most part, with me. I'm an infrastructure guy by background. When I talk in the cloud environment, it's really talking more about the applications. >> Exactly. >> And that really, we know why does infrastructure exist? Infrastructure is just to run my applications, it's about my data, it's about my business processes >> Right. >> And it seems like that is a y'know really where you're attacking with this solution. >> Sure, this solution is a necessary portion of the automated infrastructure for providing solutions as a service. So, um, historically, BlueData has been specializing in artificial intelligence, machine learning, deep learning, big data, that's where our strong suit came from. So we, uh, developed a platform that would containerize those applications like TensorFlow, um, Hadoop, Spark, and the like, make it easy for data scientists to stand up some clusters, and then do the horizontal scalability, separate, compute, and storage so that you can scale your compute independent of your storage capacity. What we're now doing is part of the HPE container platform is taking that same knowledge, expanding it to other applications beyond AI, ML, and DL. >> So what are some of those Day-2 implications then uh what is something that folks run into that then now with an HPE container platform you think will eliminate those problems? >> Sure, it's a great question, so, even though, uh, we're talking about applications that are inherently scalable, so, AI and ML and DL, they are developed so they can be horizontal- horizontally scalable, they're not stateless in the true sense of the word. When we say a stateless application, that means that, uh, there is no state in the container itself that matters. So if you destroy the container, reinstate it, there's no loss of continuity. That's a true stateless or CloudNative application. Uh, AI and ML and DL applications tend to have configuration information and state information that's stored in what's known as the Root Storage of the compute node, okay, what's in slash, so you might see, um, per node configuration information in a configuration file in the Etsy directory. Okay, today, if you just take standard off the shelf Kubernetes, if you deploy, um, Hadoop for example, or TensorFlow, and you configure that, you lose that state when the container goes down. With the HPE container platform, we are, we have been moving forward with a, or driving, a open source project known as KubeDirector. A portion of KubeDirector, of the functionality is to preserve that, uh, Root Storage so that if a container goes down, we are allowed- we are enabled to bring a Nether Instance of that container and have it have the same Root Storage. So it'll look like a just a reboot to the node rather than a reinstall of that node. So that's a huge value when you're talking about these, um, machine learning and deep learning applications that have the state in root. >> All right, so, Tom, how does KubeDirector fit compared to compare contrast it, does it kind of sit aside something like Rook, which was talked about in the keynote, talking about being able to really have that, uh, that kind of universal backplate across all of my clusters >> Right, you're going to have to be >> Is that specific for AI and ML or is this >> I, well, that's a great question, so KubeDirector itself is a Kubernetes operator, okay, uh, and we have implemented that, the open-source communities joining in, so, but what it allows us, KubeDirector is, um, application agnostic, so, you could author a YAML file with some pertinent information about the application that you want to deploy on Kubernetes. You give that YAML file to the KubeDirector operator, it will then deploy the application on your Kubernetes cluster and then manage the Day-2 activities, so this is beyond Helm, or beyond KubeFlow, which are deployment engines. So this also has, well, what happens if I lose my container? How do I bring the services back up, and those services are dependent upon the type of application that's there. That's what KubeDirector does. So, KubeDirector allows a new application to be deployed and managed on Kubernetes without having to write a operator in Go Code. Makes it much easier to bring a new application to the platform. >> Gotcha, so Tom, kind of a two-part question, first part, so, uh, you were one of the co-founders of BlueData >> And now with HPE, there's, sometimes I think with technology, some of them are kind of invented in a lab, or in a graduate student's head, others come out of real world experience. And, uh, you're smiling 'cause I think BlueData was really built around, uh, y'know, at least your experience was building these BlueData apps. >> This is a hundred percent real world experience. So we were one of the real early pioneers of bringing, um, these applications into containers y'know, truth be told, when BlueData first started, we were using VMs. We were using OpenStack, and VM more. And we realized that we didn't need to pay that overhead it was possible to go ahead and get the same thing out of a container. So we did that, and we suffered all the slings and arrows of how to make the, um, security of the container, uh, to meet enterprise class standards. How do we automatically integrate with active directory and LDAP, and Kerberos, with a single sign on all those things that enterprises require for their infrastructure, we learned that the hard way through working with, y'know, international banking organizations, financial institutions, investment houses, medical companies, so our, our, all our customers were those high-demand enterprises. Now that we're apart of HP, we're taking all that knowledge that we acquired, bringing it to Kubernetes, exposing it through KubeDirector, where we can, and I agree there will be follow on open-source projects, releasing more of that technology to the open-source community. >> Mhm that was, that was actually part-two of my question is okay, what about, with now with HPE, the apps that are not AI, ML and you nailed it, right, >> Yeah. >> All those enterprise requirements. >> Same problems exist, right, there is secure data, you have secure data in a public cloud, you have it on premise, how do you handle data gravity issues so that you store, you run your compute close to your data where it's necessary you don't want to pay for moving data across the web like that. >> All right, so Tom, platforms are used for lots of different things, >> Yes. >> Bring us inside, what do you feel from your early customers, some of the key use cases that should be highlighted? >> Our key use cases were those customers who were very interested, they had internal developers. So they had a lot of expertise in house, maybe they had medical data scientists, or financial advisors. They wanted to build up sandboxes, so we helped them stand up, cookie-cutter sandboxes within a few moments, they could go ahead and play around with them, if they screwed them up, so what? Right, we tear them down and redo it within moments, they didn't need a lot of DevOps, heavy weight-lifting to reinstall bare-metal servers with these complex stacks of applications. The data scientist that I want to use this software which just came out of the open-source community last week, deployed in a container and I want to mess it up, I want to tighten, y'know, really push the edge on this and so we did that. We developed this sandboxing platform. Then they said, okay, now that you've tested this, I have it in queue A, I've done my CI/CD, I've done my testing, now I want to promote it into production. So we did that, we allowed the customer to deploy and define different quality of service depending on what tier their application was running in. If it was in testing dev, it got the lowest tier. If it was in CI/CD, it got a higher level of resource priority. Once it got promoted to production, it got guaranteed resource priority, the highest solution, so that you could always make sure that the customer who is using the production cluster got the highest level of access to the resources. So we built that out as a solution, KubeDirector now allows us to deploy that same sort of thing with the Kubernetes container orchestrator. >> Tom, you mentioned blue metal, uh, bare-metal, we've talked about VMs, we've been hearing a lot of multicloud stories here, already today, the first day of KubeCon, it seems like that's a reality out in the world, >> Can you talk about where are people putting applications and why? >> Well, clearly, uh, the best practices today are to deploy virtual machines and then put containers in virtual machines, and they do that for two very legitimate reasons. One is concern about the security, uh, plane for containers. So if you had a rogue actor, they could break out of the container, and if they're confined within the virtual machine, you can limit the impact of the damage. One very good, uh, reason for virtual machines, also there's a, uh, feeling that it's necessary to maintain, um, the container's state running in a virtual machine, and then be allowed to upgrade the the Prom Code, or the host software itself. So you want to be able to vMotion a virtual machine from one physical host to another, and then maintain the state of the containers. What KubeDirector brings and what BlueData and HP are stating is we believe we can provide both of those functionalities on containers on bare-metal. Okay, and we've spoken a bit about today already about how KubeDirector allows the Root File System to be preserved. That is a huge component of of why vMotion is used to move the container from one host to another. We believe that we can do that with a reboot. Also, um, HPE container platform runs all virtual machines as, um, reduced priority. So you're not, we're not giving root priority or privileged priority to those containers. So we minimize the attack plane of the software running in the container by running it as an unprivileged user and then tight control of the container capabilities that are configured for a given container. We believe it's just enough priority or just enough functionality which is granted to that container to run the application and nothing more. So we believe that we are limiting the attack plane of that through the, uh and that's why we believe we can validly state we can run these containers on bare-metal without, without the enterprise having to compromise in areas of security or persistence of the data. >> All right, so Tom, the announcement this week, uh is HP container platform available today? >> It will be a- we are announcing it. It's a limited availability to select customers It'll be generally available in Queue 1 of 2020. >> All right, and y'know, give us, y'know, we come back to KubeCon, which will actually be in Boston >> Yes. >> Next year in November >> When we're sitting down with you and you say hugely successful >> Right. >> Give us some of those KPIs as to y'know >> Sure. >> What are your teams looking at? >> So, we're going to look at how many new customers these are not the historic BlueData customers, how many new customers have we convinced that they can run their production work loads on Kubernetes And we're talking about I don't care how many POCs we do or how many testing dev things I want to know about production workloads that are the bread and butter for these enterprises that HP is helping run in the industry. And that will be not only, as we've talked about, CloudNative applications, but also the Legacy, J2EE applications that they're running today on Kubernetes. >> Yeah, I, uh, I don't know if you caught the keynote this morning, but Dan Kohn, y'know, runs the CNCF, uh, was talking about, y'know, a lot of the enterprises have been quitting them with second graders. Y'know, we need to get over the fact that y'know things are going to break and we're worried about making changes y'know the software world that y'know we've been talking about for a number of years, absolutely things will break, but software needs to be a resilient and distributed system, so, y'know, what advice do you give the enterprise out there to be able to dive in and participate? >> It's a great question, we get it all the time. The first thing is identify your most critical use case. Okay, that we can help you with and, and don't try to boil the ocean. Let's get the container platform in there, we will show you how you have success, with that one application and then once that's you'll build up confidence in the platform and then we can run the rest of your applications and production. >> Right, well Tom Phelan, thanks so much for the updates >> Thank you, Stu. >> Congratulations on the launch >> Thank you. >> with the HP container platform and we look forward to seeing the results in 2020. >> Well I hope you invite me back 'cause this was really fun and I'm glad to speak with you today. Thank you. >> All right, for John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, still watch more to go here at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2019. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (energetic music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston Massachusetts, it's the theCUBE. Now here's your host, Dave Velllante (electronic music) >> Hi everybody. Welcome to the special CUBE conversation sponsored by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. This is part of our partner series. You know the partner business has changed quite dramatically over the years. It used to be you could make a lot of money pushing hardware and get some pretty good margins there. But increasingly, partners are becoming system integrators. They're becoming much more specialized in helping organizations transform, supporting their digital transformations, their infrastructure modernization, moving to the cloud, hybrid cloud, security. It really runs the gamut. And here to talk to me about that is Tim Ferris, who's a solutions architect at GreenPages. Tim, good to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Great to be here. Thank you. >> So tell me a little bit about GreenPages. It's kind of a cool name. Where did that come from? And what are you guys all about? >> Oh God, I'm going to be killed for not knowing the history here. But, I think back in the old days, we used to hand out a neon green catalog. So we couldn't, back when we were doing cold calls, you'd probably get a lot of okay, we shipped you a catalog. Did you get that? Oh, I'm not quite sure. It may be buried under there. Neon green catalog, you could not lose. (laughs) I think we do our invoices on neon green paper now. >> That's good, green, the color of money. So tell us about your role as a solutions architect. What does that entail? And what's your background? >> Sure. So I'm a solutions architect. We have a number of different solutions architects at GreenPages who have a number of different specialties. My specialty is storage, disaster recovery and data management and protection and DR automation. And that's where it computes hyperconvergence, infrastructure and hybrid cloud. So specialization, a little bit wide, but we have other architects who are very deep in networking and hybrid cloud networking and that sort of thing as well. >> So let's get into some of that. Looking at your website, you guys are into everything. You've got software defined. You got cloud. You got security. You got DevOps and really runs the gamut. Well sometimes in this industry, we suffer from acronym soup. The reality is that things are changing quite dramatically. I mean it used to be you'd build an infrastructure to support a single application. You'd harden that infrastructure and that was it. It became a silo and people don't want that anymore. They want their data to be shared. They want it out of the silos, but at the same time it has to be protected. So what are some of the big trends that you're seeing in the marketplace and let's get into it. >> Sure. So yeah, many years ago that one app, one server, one application thing went the way of the dodo. You just got back from VM world. I paid my dues during the Wave One virtualization boom. When people were transforming racks and racks of servers into virtual machines. And so it used to be so easy to impress a customer. You show them a vMotion and it was like magic. You move the server from this server to that server without missing a beat. Now people are looking at hybrid cloud. So not just cloud, but hybrid cloud. Everybody we're talking to, we hear some people say that this is the last major hardware purchase that I want to make. Now I don't know the reality is that. That's debatable, right? But I think people want to have a roadmap to move their infrastructure to cloud or cloud services. Not just infrastructure as a service. You know, lift and shift. Software is a service and take advantage of that. So helping our customers manage that hybrid cloud journey is a big part of what GreenPages does. >> And of course, what the customer is really telling you is we don't want to spend a lot of time provisioning LUNs anymore because it doesn't add value to our business. We want to focus on building new apps or our digital transformation, etc. So and I think you're right. It's sort of aspirational that okay, we're not going to buy anymore hardware anymore. To me the key is, can the industry, through R & D, simplify what's on-prem and you know, lets face it, those mission critical apps you don't just want to throw them into the cloud. I mean, they're working. You don't want to have to refactor them and migrate. That's sort of an evil word. So to the extent that the industry can deliver that cloud-like experience on-prem, you can start to see this hybrid cloud vision evolve. What are your thoughts on that? >> Sure. So I think, in H it's fortuitous that we're here with HPE. I think they're doing a couple of things with some of their products and services that help push that. So it used to be that storage was relatively complicated. There were a lot of knobs and dials on storage that you could push and rotate in order to increase performance. You could have a number of different RAID levels. You know the 3PAR chunklets, and this sort of thing. There was a lot of customization you could do, you could use as a customer in order to properly set up your array for your workloads. People appreciate that level of detail that you can put into that but they want it easier. So I'm seeing a trend toward less customization and more ready just set it and forget it arrays. Nimble, the 3PAR array was highly available. Very good, very good array, very fast, but a little bit higher end to operate. Nimble with HPE's acquisition of Nimble, they've taken that operational complexity down significantly. Not only with operating the array, provisioning LUNs but managing it, maintaining it and performing predictive analytics through Infosite and that sort of thing. So at the storage level I think Nimble, in that paradigm is transforming storage. And HPE's GreenLake technologies, that is very much an answer to the private cloud. Having that hyperscale feel, that ability to expand elastically and get out of the hardware maintenance business by using the GreenLake service. >> So actually, a little bit of history here. So 3PAR was actually, the company was formed in the early 2000s before the term cloud computing really came out. They used, I think utility computing in their S-1 registration. But what 3PAR did is, it really simplified that high end. And then 3PAR reached escape velocity by going after the high end EMC base and did very well and of course famously got acquired by Hewlett Packard. At the time HP then became HPE. Nimble now is bringing sort of a new level where you're talking about intelligent automation and AI managing infrastructure, predictive analytics and that drives more automation which I think, Tim has really got to be a theme of hybrid cloud. I mean cloud is all about automation so hybrid cloud, on-prem, and public some kind of interconnection has to be highly automated, doesn't it? >> It absolutely does and people don't have time to turn the dials and to optimize their storage. They need systems that will do that for them. And there's the level one, the level two support that you get through those predictive analytics of Infosite are critical to customers. They don't, you know a lot of customers don't have time for full time storage admins anymore. And these technologies are what's freeing up those resources, those people resources to do other strategic things for the business. >> Especially in small and mid-sized businesses. >> Absolutely. >> Where they're generalist really, not really specialists at one thing. I want to come back to the hybrid cloud. You know thinking about data governance and management and security. Are we at the point where you can start to see sort of a consistent framework across clouds? You're smiling. (laughs) So what's the journey there? How are we going to get there? I mean (mumbling) (laughs) >> Yeah, I would say we're certainly early days there. I think you know customers need to be much more cognizant of the tools that they use and buy. They can't be necessarily proprietary on-prem tools. The best use of your money is to buy tools, that can be used to manage hybrid and secure hybrid infrastructures. So that should be a main qualifier for what people are looking for for security technologies and that sort of thing. It's not quite the wild west, though we still see, you know there's that shared governance model. That shared responsibility in the cloud. I think there are still some who haven't woken up to that basic concept. That just because I moved the workload to the cloud doesn't mean it's no longer my responsibility to secure that data. Though we're still talking with people today who may be under that misimpression. >> You're right, Tim. I mean that is not well understood and people think if I move in the cloud, I'm good. But there is shared responsibility model whether it's for security or governance, etc. And when you talk to chief information security officers they'll tell you, yeah, you know the cloud vendor might secure the storage device, but its' really our responsibility to do everything else. And the list of everything else is still quite long. >> Absolutely, you know rights, roles and responsibilities. Those sorts of things, firewall rules. They provide the firewall. They make sure the firewall is up to date on it's firmware. But you're setting the rules. You're setting the ingress, egress. So, yes it's very much still a shared responsibility. And yeah, it's eye opening still to some. >> Let's talk about your partnership with HPE. We talked about some of the products, but what do you look for in a partner? Obviously as I said before, you know used to be you sell in boxes. You want margin and I'm sure you still want margin. But there's got to be more, right? >> Well yeah, I mean we've known for quite a while. I mean we've seen the writing on the wall that, I remember the glory, I don't know glory days, the old days back when people could make a fortune selling memory, back before the turn of the century, turn of the century. (laughs) I'm dating myself. But it's true you could make quite a bit of money selling memory back then. But today and certainly over the past 20 years, people, our clients are choosing partners that they can't, not just the cheapest price, but people who can talk to them about a solution. Not just a product. Hear their business problems and turn that into technology solutions that help them address those problems. So that's what I would look for as a partner, if I were, we look to HPE for the same thing. Not just pushing product, where to sell product, but to solve business problems. And I think that HPE is listening, they're hearing their clients. They were listening to them with the acquisition of HPE Nimble. They're listening to them, how they're expanding Infosite from just a Nimble platform, the 3PAR and Prolient and other things and expanding some of those things. >> Yeah, the pendulum has swung after the dot.com boom it became cut, cut, cut. Everyone was concerned about budgets. You know IT doesn't matter anymore. We heard all that >> crosstalk >> and that's totally changed. IT's driving revenue. It's driving top line. Of course budgets are still critical and we've talked a lot about simplification which is a lot about attacking the IT labor problem. But right now the sentiment with the booming economy we're in. This tenth, ninth year of a run on a bull market, obviously in the late cycles, but the sentiment is much more toward how do I enable the business with technology? >> Yes. Yeah, yeah. So how does IT add value back to the business? They can do that through AI, through analytics and through digital transformation in general. I think we've seen a, you know there's always been this upward curve to storage growth. But it's dramatically increased I think. It's upward, predicted to be upward of 40 zettabytes, or something like that by the year 2022. And that's because more and more businesses are using this data more creatively. They're saving it more and not only is that growing, the usable data, but they need to retain it for longer. You've got to retain it, you've got to protect it and we've still got data protection problems. Not just storing it and providing the right performance level for it. But it's really difficult. And then you've got to secure all that extra data, as well. >> Well, I think you're right too. The curve is getting non-linear. I mean it used to be, I've said this often on the theCUBE that we for decades, we've marched to the cadence of Moore's law. But now the innovation sandwich, if you will, it's about applying machine intelligence to data and then automating, whether it's public cloud or on-prem cloud-like, it's being able to scale. >> Right. >> And it's those three pieces of the sandwich that are now driving innovation. No longer the doubling of transistors every 18 months. >> Yeah, so do people want to scale on-prem? Do they want to scale to the cloud and the cloud market itself as it's very elastic, very easy to grow and shrink and contrast? Or can you do some of those types of things on-prem? You know with GreenLake and with some other programs that let you have your on-prem security blanket and your on-prem performance with the hands-off operational paradigm and the elastic growth that you have in cloud. I think that's the best of both worlds for some. >> Let's end with a call to action. So what advice would you give to practitioners, clients that are looking to modernize their infrastructure? They're trying to support their digital transformation. They want to get from point A to point B. They don't want to spend a billion dollars doing it. They got to go on a journey. How do they get there? What's your advice? >> My advice is to certainly, I'm jaded here, but I would say engage professionals who have done this many many times. Don't learn on the job here. You can make some expensive mistakes moving workloads to the cloud. And we've seen anecdotal evidence, and in-person evidence of people moving to the cloud, doing it the wrong way and then having to migrate that back. That's a costly mistake. So make sure you do your planning. Migrate in phases. Move your data there in phases. Bite off some smaller chunks first to make sure if you have growing pain, teething pains that that happens with a non-critical application. Build your knowledge base and then make some better decisions. Engage people like GreenPages to help you roadmap your journey, your hybrid cloud journey. And don't go in with a preconceived notion of where you need to end, right? The applications, their performance requirements and that assessment work up front should dictate where the best place is for those workloads. >> Great advice. Tim Ferris from GreenPages. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. It's great to have you. >> Thank you. >> And thank you for watching everybody. We'll see you next time. This is Dave Vellante. We're out. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's theCUBE, covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and it's Ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back, everyone. Live CUBE coverage here at VMworld 2019. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, hosts of theCUBE here in two sets. We're on the main set. The set over there, Dave Vellante's hosting. This morning, we have two great guests here. Bob Ganley, who's Cloud Marketing at Dell EMC. John Allwright, Director of Product Marketing at Pivotal. We got operators, we got development experts here. Guys, thanks for joining us. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, excited to be here. >> John: Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, it's great to be here. >> So the show, VMworld, we're obviously an operators' show, one of the things that's really interesting is the Dell EMC equation of VMware on Dell EMC. You're seeing the piece parts coming together. The Pivotal acquisition, you're in Product Marketing over there, so I'm sure you got to perspective on the dots that connect there, even though the acquisition's a couple days old. Let's start with Dell EMC. Michael was on yesterday. I said, "You guys were number one in all the metric quadrants." You know, this, that, servers. As you've got to pull that together on-premises, where the Data Center is nearly going away and the Edge has emerged, you got to have an operating model that's got to be cloud. And that's really seems to be the focus, clearly. >> Yeah, absolutely. What we see is that customers today are trying to deliver value through applications. And it's all about apps, because apps is where that value gets delivered to the customer. So, as organizations are trying to deliver those applications, the question becomes what's the best place to put the app. So right workload, right cloud is a big thing for us. Clearly, organizations have been adopting public cloud in droves. What we see is that they're trying to figure out how do they get that public cloud infrastructure to work with what they're doing on-prem. What we're bringing to the table, is a solution called Dell Technologies Cloud. We're super-excited about bringing together private and public in a hybrid cloud solution in a way that provides consistent infrastructure and consistent operations. As you guys have seen, everybody's excited about next-generation apps, right? So now, where are we going with next generation apps? That's really what this show is all about. >> Bob, I'm so glad you brought up the apps. Because we often, my background's infrastructure, and we get down in the weeds as to what's doing, and, like, oh we architected this better and chipsets and all these things there. But it's that modernization that customers are going through. Can you pick us through, what are the patterns you're seeing? One term I'd used for a while is, modernize the platform and then modernize the apps. Is that it? Containerization, where do all these pieces fit, again, when they're talking about their application development? >> It's interesting because every customer's on an application journey. We all started in physical, right? I was a software developer right out of college. Working with physical infrastructure is where it's at. Organizations have clearly adopted virtualization. And most organizations are now trying to pivot toward how do I get more efficiency, more agility, for my virtualized applications. That's really where infrastructure as a service, and IT as a service is adding a lot of value today. So, the question becomes, as I'm working with my existing virtualized applications, and now looking at next generation apps and developing those, how am I going to bring that along? We see this physical to virtual to infrastructure as a service, to container as a service, as being a very logical progression for customers. >> Well, certainly it's absolutely standardized now. Containers, since Docker hit the scene. Containers had been around for a while. You talk to anyone with development, oh, containers, put a wrapper around things, it's kind of a known concept. John, I want to get your thoughts, because one of the things about Dev Ops in the Cloud 1.0 was, clearly the cloud native world was obvious. If you were a startup, you were born in the cloud, it was all goodness. You didn't have on-premise to deal with. You just did everything. The operator was the developer, right? So, Cloud 2.0 is a little bit more complicated. And we're seeing that the trend where the infrastructure has to be enabling for the developer, and that has been a key thing. But what's interesting is, in Cloud 2.0, as we're calling it, the world is flipped upside down. It used to be the infrastructure would dictate what the application developers could do, based upon what the capabilities were, to now the application developers dictating resources below them to be on demand, or elastic, or one cloud, two clouds. So the application's dictating configuration and architecture, either dynamically or specifically. Not limited to what is rolled out. So this relationship between infrastructure and developers is evolving very quickly. I would love to get your thoughts on how you see it. You've been around the block on this point. >> I mean, Pat had a great slide in the Keynote, which kind of put Kubernetes as in between developers and operators. I think the way that is evidenced itself is that Kubernetes has been something that's been driven down from developers. They're saying, this is the infrastructure that we want to run our applications. Working at the levels that typically infrastructure is provided. There's too much work for them to do. So in some cases, they were packaging up Kubernetes with their applications and saying to the infrastructure folks, hey, deploy this. I think we've now kind of crossed the point where Infrastructure go, well this is a thing and I need to provide that. So things like Project Pacific, or a recognition that, yeah, why not bake that into the infrastructure? So Kubernetes is kind of Dev Ops, materialized in a product. >> Yeah, it was interesting. I had an interview yesterday. We've been watching Kubernetes since the beginning. But the way they described it is, Kubernetes is really the new server. It's like I can spin up that environment in a much shorter period of time. Which, of course, was part of the value proposition of going to containerization. Project Pacific is, you're going to take your install base of VMs and give them that bridge to the future. Pivotal also, if I wanted to just do it in the public cloud, you've got the options there. Correct? What I'd love, John, if you can help tease us out the Kubernetes message. If I take VMware plus Pivotal and Heptio and all the pieces, help us sort through the fog a little bit. >> The thing that's become very clear to us at Pivotal and, I think, in the industry is that Kubernetes is now becoming an expected default. Whereas maybe before it was VMs, that's the basic foundation that I'm going to build my workers, my applications on. Now it's Kubernetes. And whether I'm building custom applications or a vendor is supplying me with something as a container images in a pod, that's kind of the default. So the big thing about the announcers from the Keynote was that's really what we're working to. In something like Tanzu Mission Control, now distracts you away from necessarily where those Kubernetes are appearing, whether that is on-prem or in the public cloud. Let's you work across a foundation that actually appears in a lot of different places. >> The impact of Mission Control. Just drill down on that for a second, because that demo was pretty sweet. Just take a minute to explain the relevance of having the view of all those Kubernetes clusters across the cloud and what it means to the operator. Because that was an interesting demo. >> Yeah, so the analogy I use, and it doesn't fit exactly, but it's kind of like power stations in a grid. With a lot of products, things like SoS with PKS, have been creating the power stations that let you run Kubernetes, but the power is really in having the grid. So Mission Control gives you the grid. It lets you do operations across Kubernetes wherever they are. But also do things like migrations. We talk about Enterprise PKS being a really good start point of getting into this new world of Pacific and everything. And it's actually Tanzu Mission Control that enables that. It's like VMotion for containers, almost. >> It is such an important piece, because every platform is going to have Kubernetes, and while VMware is going to have some Kubernetes, it's not going to have all Kubernetes. So if I've got some in Amazon, and I'm using Anthos over here, we'd love to have that management platform that gives me visibility. Bob, I just want to bring it back to you here. In the industry, we've had time and time again where we want to manage a heterogeneous environment. It's been Don Quixote chasing after that dream. Tell us how do we pull that together and where do we live? >> I think you guys were talking about the fact that developers expect this Kubernetes dial tone today, and that's driving infrastructure choices. One of the things that we need to do as infrastructure people is make that real. In other words, it's all well and good to develop an application on a Kubernetes infrastructure, but now how do I turn that into a production service that is helping me drive revenue, for example. What we need to do is operationalize that, in a way that can bring that to life, and bring that to life in a production way. That's really where we're going with PKS, on VCF, on VxRail. So PKS on VCF allows organizations to actually automated fashion deploy a Kubernetes cluster. So what that does is allow organizations to now suddenly bring their investment in what they've been doing in virtualization today, and bring that toward this next generation containerized-based applications. This is key because in order to, for example, stand up a Kubternetes cluster, and then make that into a production service, there's just tons of moving parts. So why not automate that in a fashion that essentially takes all of the stress out of that Day Zero. And then, furthermore, when it comes to Day Two, and making sure that's up to date, making sure that you can patch that. For example, if there's a critical bug, you want to be able to do that in an automated fashion as well, because there's just so many moving parts that it's impossible to keep track of all this stuff manually. >> Bob, there's so many changes that go through when we're moving to that environment where it's going to change a lot more. We think about management. It used to be, oh, okay, I know where the server lives. Wait, VMs fly all over the place with VMotion of containers, by the time you go looking for it, it feels like it's trying to measure the speed and direction of an atom. You can't pin it down. But the one I want to get you, from a customer along that journey, the consumption model has to be something that is changing along the lines. How does the infrastructure, how do we make sure it can scale like the cloud, and how can I pay for it like that, that flexible model? >> That's pretty interesting, because we see a couple of things. Organizations come to us and say, I'm all in uncloud. Okay, what do you mean you're all in uncloud? Well, there's two things that come out, right? One is elastic capacity, the ability to expand as needed. The other one is metered use. In other words, I only want to pay for this stuff when I'm actually using it. We're providing a couple of ways to get there today with Dell Technologies Cloud. One is this Data Center as a Service offering that we've been discussing, which is VMware Cloud on Dell EMC. The other one is flex on demand, and flex on demand is an offer that we'll bringing to the table for traditional customer-managed infrastructure that allows organizations to essentially only pay for the nodes that they're using in their on-premises cluster. We believe that being able to deliver that, whether it's on-prem with traditional infrastructure, or in a public cloud environment, which organizations clearly have voted with their dollars on, is key. So that's what we're bringing to the table with Dell Tech Cloud. >> It's clear you guys are building that out and running as fast as you can (laughing) to get it done. The final thought I want to get your guys to weight in on, the show this week. What's the big takeaway from your perspective? Obviously Pivotal is big news into the fold with VMware is going to be a really strategic opportunity for VMware to go that next level with developers and then figuring out, connecting the dots there. What's the top stories that you're seeing, that people, that you're walking away with from the show this week? >> For me, it's really you don't have to choose. In other words, organizations are looking at containerization and saying, wow, next generation applications are going there. Maybe I should be shifting everything over there. And yet they're saying, gosh, I've got all this existing infrastructure, what am I going to do? So really, PKS on VCF is allowing organizations to say, I can have existing virtualized apps living right next to my emerging containerized applications, and use existing infrastructure, existing skills in order to get there. And I think really you don't have to choose. You've got a path forward from where you are today, into this next generation of cloud-native applications is really exciting, and that's what we're >> John, your thoughts. >> bringing to the table. >> I think organizations, customer organizations, need to re-evaluate who VMware is, and what they can do for them. Pivotal's always been about business outcomes for our customers, and those outcomes come through developing software to drive the business. VMware has reached out to developers in the past, but that's really on steroids now. >> They've really had a ton of success there because they're operators. But they've always been a software company. VMware is, at heart, a software company. >> Right, but I always think of marketing as save money, make money (laughing) but go faster. VMware's been amazing at helping folks to save money, go faster. >> I think the Pivotal relationship's going to be really important for VMware. I think it's going to completely change the game. We'll be tracking the progress. Thanks for sharing, thanks for coming on. Thanks for the insight, here on theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, and more of the live coverage from Vmworld 2019 after this short break. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Fransciso, celebrating 10 years of hi-tech coverage, it's the theCUBE, covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and its eco-system partners. >> Welcome back everyone. It's theCUBE's live coverage at VMworld 2019. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, Dave, 10 years doing theCUBE at VMworld, what a transformation, lot of technologies coming back into the center of all the action. SD-WAN's one of them, we got two great guests, two entrepreneurs, the co-founders of VeloCloud. Sanjay Uppal who's the VP and GM of VeloCloud Business Unit part of VMware, VMware bought on December 2017, Steve Woo, Senior Director of VeloCloud Business Unit. Also co-founder, you guys both strong in networking, entrepreneurs, congratulations on. >> Thank you. >> That was two years ago. Okay, so, we were reminiscing about 10 years, 2010, when we first started doing theCUBE to now, but more than ever SD-WAN, just over the past 24 months, 36 months, a lot's changing as cloud has become more obvious. Certainly public cloud, no debate, but we start talking about cloud 2.0. Enterprise requirements are much unique and different that just, you know, being born in the cloud at least like the startups are. So, whole different challenges. This is a kind of difficult, it's a networking challenge. Networking and security are the two biggest, hottest areas right now in tech as clouds scale, the enterprise comes in. What's the vision, Sanjay? >> So what's going on here as you were rightly pointing out, cloud is changing. It's no longer people just want to get from private to public, it's a multi-cloud world and it's a hybrid cloud world. Now, that's talking at it from the compute standpoint. But, other services are also moving to the cloud, security services are moving to the cloud, so when you look at it from that standpoint, our customers want to get from the clients, which could be a user, it could be a thing, it could be a machine, all the way to the container which has the application. So we're looking at SD-WAN as being that fabric that connects from the client to the cloud to the container. And as you're rightly pointing out, networking and security is the hot area right now. So how does security and networking impact this client to cloud to container world is where SD-WAN is headed toady. >> And Pat Gelsinger who just came fresh off the keynote, he'll be on tomorrow, I'm going to ask him this question directly but, we've always been saying public cloud is such a great resource, I mean, who doesn't want all that massive compute, massive storage, if you can use it? But when you start getting into hybrid, right? I said the data center's an edge. And he's talking about a thin edge and a big edge and a thick edge, so when you're a networking packet, when you're in networking you move stuff around, you're an edge and you're a center, you're a core. These are networking concepts, this is not new, I mean, this is not new. >> Yes, this is not new. And I think the concept of the edge, as he was pointing out, there's different edges everywhere and you have to really look at it from, as you're crossing the boundary, how do you get the packets from point A to point B? Making sure that the performances are short, so you get the application layer performance, but yet not increasing your attack surface from a security standpoint. And so, the facilities that Steve and myself and other folks at VeloCloud have constructed is really reducing the attack surface by segmentation. But making sure that the conversation from the client to the cloud to the container has that assured performance, particularly for real time applications. Which are actually not easy to get right because the underlying transport may not actually help in any great way. >> So, John, you said it's not really new for you networking guys, it's really not. At the same time, Pat talked about choice versus complexity so it's a much more complex world. So you've had to change the way in which, you approach from a technology standpoint I presume? The roadmap has probably shifted, maybe you could talk about that a little bit. >> So, absolutely. So the discussion about moving to the cloud has been about the compute, but then you have to also actually look at the network, right? They forecast that 30 to 50% of the enterprise traffic is going to go to the cloud, right? But the network in the past was built for applications going to the on premise data center. So what we've had is inequality where you've had a full enterprise grade network going to the enterprise data center, but actually your cloud access was a second grade citizen. As Sanjay was saying, I still want performance, I still want security, and then in fact, as people actually expand to the cloud but actually put more and more workloads in the cloud, they start to realize, gee, where's my automation? Where's my scaling? So that still has to be done at the branch that the remote sites that need access to the cloud, and they need this automated, secure, high performing access to all the cloud workloads. Especially even that it's now moved to multi-cloud, right? So you went from on premise, a little bit in the hybrid, private cloud, now many more instances and now multi-cloud, becomes more and more complex and that's where cloud delivered SD-WAN really addresses that problem. >> So Steve, lay out the architecture, so let's just all roleplay for a second here. I'm a CCO, CIO, I'm progressive, got my hands in all the top things, certainly security's number one concern I have. And I'm building my own stack, I love the cloud, I don't want to make it a second class citizen, I really want to re-architect this. What the playbook, what do I do, what's your recommendation? >> Alright, so the playbook is, and this is advice from the cloud compute centers as well, right? Go direct to the cloud, don't back haul it through the enterprise data center and introduce latency so you now need Internet Breakout at more locations, not just the central data center. But I still need the security, so how do I have cloud security for traffic going straight to the cloud versus going back to the east west, to the data center? So really, the advantage that the SD-WAN solution has is it's actually a hybrid that has a footprint on premise but also has a cloud footprint. So Sanjay and I and VeloCloud, we have this big network of cloud gateways so you have the footprint on prem and in the cloud to have distributed security. >> So, Sanjay, talk about, back to your original bumper sticker, client, cloud, containers. So, I see that security piece. How important has the container piece become? And what is that role of the container in the future? Is it going to be a wrapper for legacy apps, is it going to be primary for new apps? Because Kubernetes clearly is orchestrating a bunch of containers and other services so the role of the container's certainly super valuable. How does that impact some of the efficiencies that's needed for networking and to ensure security? >> Yeah, great question. You know, the networking folks, and networking was always relegated to being the underlay or the plumbing. Now what's becoming important is that the applications are making their intent aware to the network. And the intent is becoming aware. As the intent becomes aware, we networking people know what to do in the SD-WAN layer, which then shields all the intricacies of what needs to get done in the underlay. So to put it in very simple terms, the container's what really drives the need and what we're doing is we're building the outcome to satisfy that need. Now containers are critical because as Pat was saying, all of the new digital applications are going to be built with containers in mind. So the reason we call it client to cloud to container is because the containers can literally be anywhere. You know, we're talking about them being in the private cloud and then the public cloud, they could be right next to where the client is because of the edge cloud. They could be in the telco network which is the telco cloud. So between these four clouds, you literally have a network of these containers and the underlying infrastructure that we are doing is to provide that SD-WAN layer that'll get the containers to talk to one another as well as to talk to the clients that are getting access to those applications. >> You know, sometimes it takes a history lesson to figure out the future. I was talking with Steve Herrod and I want to get your reaction to a comment he made to me when we were talking about the impact of VMware back in the old days, you know, virtualization. Virtualization kind of came out as an application and then it became what it did in the server world, just changed the game. But one key thing that we talked about and he mentioned was, the key was that virtualization allowed for massive efficiencies. Not just on price and consolidation of service and efficiency on price, but it enabled more efficiencies in performance without any code changes to the application. So the question is, is that, okay, containers I buy 100%, we agree, since Docker and early days to now with the Kubernetes, containers are going to be a game changer. What's that dynamic that's going to come next? Is there a view from your perspective on that step up function of value without a lot of application rewrites or network changes? I mean, I'm just trying to figure out how that fits together what's your view on that? >> Yeah, let me drag this first and then maybe Steve can comment as well, so. The first thing is that SD-WAN, just like server virtualization did, we're doing what server virtualization was for the network. So you don't require any changes to your underlay, meaning that you don't require changes to your broadband, you don't require changes to your LTE and even 5G, as well as the NPLS network so you don't have to twiddle with those bits, we manage it all in the overlay, this is exactly similar to what VMs did when it came to server virtualization. Now, when containers come in, because we get the visibility of what the container wants, we can both in real time, as well as a priori, figure out how the network should be configured. And that is a game changer because a container could be right next to you, it could be in the cloud, far edge, thin edge, it's not just a destination, it's literally everywhere. And that underlying fabric, if the underlying fabric of the network doesn't work, your digital transformation project for containers is not going to work either. You there's a key building block over there. >> So if I get this right, you're saying is that because you have that underlay visibility without any changes, by making efficiencies there, you then can understand what the container wants so you're bringing intelligence to the container and vice versa? >> Yes, so that containers tells us what do they need to run, I mean the application tells us, which is built with containers. And what we do is we dynamically measure how the network is performing, and we adapt to what the container wants. We call this outcome driven. We know what the outcome is and we adapt the networking to deliver that outcome. >> So I want to ask you guys, so Pat talked today about 8% better improvement relative to bare metal, but it's really about the entire system, the entire network. And I'm curious as to how you guys are evolving. You know, John and I talk about cloud 2.0, how you're evolving to support that. Because it's really about application performance in total, what the user sees, not what I can measure in some on prem data center, I'm not saying Pat was doing that, but my guess to deduce the numbers for the keynote they probably did do that. So, how is your infrastructure and architecture evolving to support application performance across the network? >> Right, right. So, to add to what Sanjay was saying in terms of just being aware of the requirements of the containers and optimizing and having visibility but actually, leverage the container and virtual machine technology in the SD-WAN platform itself. So in terms of solving the network problem, it's not just about us virtualizing the network resources and then choosing the best path across the network to the applications, but actually hosting some applications that deserve to be moved out to the edge to help solve the performance problem as well. A good example is IOT, where you just have a lot of data, a lot of real time data that needs real time control response instead of necessarily going over the most efficient path to an existing cloud data center on premise, perhaps do some of the analytics actually in the SD-WAN network edge, and we can do that with containers. >> So what about the real time aspect? Because I think that's a key point, you mentioned that, Sanjay, earlier. Because, I remember, not the date myself, but I remember back in the days when policy was a revolution, oh my God, we can do policy based stuff! And provisional stuff, that was an, oh my God, static network, though, I mean everything was provisioned, buttoned up nicely, you're not dealing with a static network when you're dealing with services. So you're moving up the stack, we're talking containers now, at the application level, assuming you have the fabric down here. There's going to be a lot of stuff being turned on, turned off, things provisioning, unprovisioning, so a lot of dynamic nature going on. So, if I see this right, policy is key and enables some intelligence, it's got to have an impact on the real time so talk about what real time means, some of the challenges, is it just a transactional issue? Is it latency? And is that where the container magic happens? Just unpack that a little bit. >> So there's really four classes of real time applications that we see. Voice, video, VDI and IOT. Now, there's of course, other applications that are built from these building blocks or these types of application, sub-applications. Now, each of these has a latency requirement, but it also has a requirement in terms of dynamism, so as you know, video can change dramatically from one moment to the other, variable portrayed video, right? Voice doesn't change as dramatically but has very stringent requirements in terms of when that packet should show up. So when we look at these, and you put them on a best effort network that only says that they're going to get the packet from point A to point B, these real time applications may not work. So what we have constructed is an overlay that supports realtime applications even on best effort networks. And this is actually a fairly significant shift in the industry, like if you look at running, you know, all of us have done a voice call, on a broadband and you hear these artifacts and rubberbanding and you can't hear the other person, right? But with VeloCloud, we're able to provide guarantees running on best effort networks. And I think that is a game changer. That is going to be a game changer also as the applications get much more dynamic. I mean, you bring in containers, one of the issues is where should that application run? That can be decided in real time. VMware invented this whole vMotion idea, well how about vMotioning the container? And how are you going to vMotion it and how are you going to decide where that container should be? So all of this is really what a networking infrastructure can provide for you in real time. >> And you've got this overlay, and without performance degradation or dramatic performance degradation, right? So what's the secret sauce behind that? >> So, the secret sauce in our solution is something we call dynamic multi-path optimization. So just like virtualization was done for the data center, first continuously monitor the resource's performance, capacity of the different underlay resources and then in real time, recognizing the business priority of the different applications, instantly put the workload, or in this case, the network WAN traffic on the right resource and actually have the flexibility to move it as conditions change, as capacity changes. And further than that, if you can't stare around the problems that we may see in the network, we can actually remediate the actual traffic streams and since we're on both ends we can have a lot of optimization tricks and actually make sure that real time data applications work perfectly. >> So it's a data analysis and a math problem to solve? >> Yeah, so we use that for real time optimization, and then the other benefit is we have this huge, in the cloud, of course, huge data lake of information that we continue to share more and more with the users so they can see the overlay, so that the entire underlay environment of the WAN, where it's going in the different hybrid cloud, and also the overlay performance. There's going to be huge value in that in terms of solving network problems. >> Are the telcos a bottleneck to the future or is 5G going to solve all that, or? >> Telcos are a partner, and more than 50% of our business is done with the telco. So it's us working with the telco and then going eventually to the enterprise. >> And they're moving at the speed that you want em to move? They're saddled with pressures on costs and network function virtualization, and it's a complicated problem. >> Right, as you heard Pat say in the morning, the telcos are going through a dramatic change. Because they're shifting away from this custom proprietary hardware infrastructure into a completely software driven world, right? And so the telco is a critical partner. They are virtualizing their own network, they are virtualizing the core of the network using VMware and other technologies, and as they're doing that, they're virtualizing what goes out to the enterprise customer. And the network virtualization piece, of course, is built on SD-WAN. One thing I wanted to add to what Steve said, is that we collect almost 10 billion flow records a day. From across all of our 150,000 sites, and this is a treasure trove of information. It is this information that allows us to develop the next generation algorithms. We're the only ones who have that much information that is collected, it's rich information, it's about how the network performs, how the applications are, where it is going, how the application workloads are. And using this we generate the next generation algorithms that'll optimize the networks and make them more secure. >> And that is the benefit of SaaS, the beautiful thing about having a SaaS platform, easy to stand up, the data becomes a really critical aspect for making the network smarter, to your point, this is all those data points. It's an operating, sounds like an operating system to me. >> It's a highly distributed network operating system. >> Guys, thanks for coming on, great insight. Final question to end the segment, as two co-founders and entrepreneurs, when you started VeloCloud, knowing what's going on today, explain in your entrepreneurial mind, where this is going, because this isn't your, as they say, grandfather's SD-WAN market anymore. It's really turning into, quite frankly, next generation networking, next generation software, you mentioned it's network operating system, it's one big distributed network. And all these new things are happening, what's the vision? Is this what you thought it would be when you guys started? >> Well, you know, the amazing this is many startups usually go through a pivot, right? They start off as one thing and maybe more than one pivot, in fact, I think it was a couple of years ago that we just for grins, looked at the first few slides that Steve has made when we had got started. For our seed investor, where we actually had absolutely nothing! And it was, actually is very true, the graphics were very very poor, other than that the idea of moving to the cloud and using the cloud as the network, even at that time we said the cloud is the network. That has not changed. And so, the enduring vision here is that regardless of where you are, you're on laptops right now, clients could be sensors, actuators, all of this is going to go through a network cloud. And that network cloud is going to be responsible for getting you to any final destination. Whether it's your nearby container or whether it's running in some public cloud. And so the vision is trust the network, it's going to make sure that it'll figure out whether you should be on Wi-Fi or Bluetooth or LTE or 5G or whatever have you. You just say this application's important to me. The network is going to take care of the rest of it. >> Well you guys are certainly music to our ears, we love network effects, we think network effects is not just the way media is today but also technology, the network is all interconnected it's all instrumented, you can get the data. There's no blindspots, if you can instrument it, you can automate it. You guys are pioneers, thanks for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. >> Good to have ya. >> Thank you. >> CUBE coverage here, 10 years covering VWworld, I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. Back with more live coverage after this short break. (electronic music)

>> From the Silicon Angle Media office in Boston Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now here's your host, Dave Vellante. (upbeat music) >> Hello everybody, this is Dave Vallante with Stu Miniman and we're going to take a look back at ten years of theCUBE at VMworld and look forward to see what's coming next. So, as I say, this is theCUBE's 10th year at VMworld, that's VMworld, of course 2019. And Stu, if you think about the VMware of 2010, when we first started, it's a dramatically different VMware today. Let's look back at 2010. Paul Maritz was running VMware, he set forth the vision of the software mainframe last decade, well, what does that mean, software mainframe? Highly integrated hardware and software that can run any workload, any application. That is the gauntlet that Tucci and Maritz laid down. A lot of people were skeptical. Fast forward 10 years, they've actually achieved that, I mean, essentially, it is the standard operating system, if you will, in the data center, but there's a lot more to the story. But you remember, at the time, Stu, it was a very complex environment. When something went wrong, you needed guys with lab coats to come in a figure out, you know, what was going on, the I/O blender problem, storage was a real bottleneck. So let's talk about that. >> Yeah, Dave, so much. First of all, hard to believe, 10 years, you know, think back to 2010, it was my first time being at VMworld, even though I started working with VMware back in 2002 when it was like, you know, 100, 150 person company. Remember when vMotion first launched. But that first show that we went to, Dave, was in San Francisco, and most people didn't know theCUBE, heck, we were still figuring out exactly what theCUBE will be, and we brought in a bunch of our friends that were doing the CloudCamps in Silicon Valley, and we were talking about cloud. And there was this gap that we saw between, as you said, the challenges we were solving with VMware, which was fixing infrastructure, storage and networking had been broken, and how were we going to make sure that that worked in a virtual environment even better? But there were the early thought leaders that were talking about that future of cloud computing, which, today in 2019, looks like we had a good prediction. And, of course, where VMware is today, we're talking all about cloud. So, so many different eras and pieces and research that we did, you know, hundreds and hundreds of interviews that we've done at that show, it's definitely been one of our flagship shows and one of our favorite for guests and ecosystems and so much that we got to dig into at that event. >> So Tod Nielsen, who was the President and probably COO at the time, talked about the ecosystem. For every dollar spent on a VMware license, $15 was spent on the ecosystem. VMware was a very, even though they were owned by EMC, they were very, sort of, neutral to the ecosystem. You had what we called the storage cartel. It was certainly EMC, you know, but NetApp was right there, IBM, HP, you know, Dell had purchased EqualLogic, HDS was kind of there as well. These companies were the first to get the APIs, you remember, the VASA VAAI. So, we pushed VMware at the time, saying, "Look, you guys got a storage problem." And they said, "Well, we don't have a lot of resources, "we're going to let the ecosystem solve the problem, "here's an API, you guys figure it out." Which they largely did, but it took a long time. The other big thing you had in that 2010 timeframe was storage consolidation. You had the bidding war between Dell and HP, which, ultimately, HP, under Donatelli's leadership, won that bidding war and acquired 3PAR >> Bought 3PAR >> for 2.4, 2.5 billion, it forced Dell to buy Compellent. Subsequently, Isilon was acquired, Data Domain was acquired by EMC. So you had this consolidation of the early 2000s storage startups and then, still, storage was a major problem back then. But the big sea change was, two things happened in 2012. Pat Gelsinger took over as CEO, and VMware acquired Nicira, beat Cisco to the punch. Why did that change everything? >> Yeah, Dave, we talked a lot about storage, and how, you know, the ecosystem was changing this. Nicira, we knew it was a big deal. When I, you know, I talked to my friends that were deep in networking and I talked with Nicira and was majorly impressed with what they were doing. But this heterogeneous, and what now is the multi-cloud environment, networking needs to play a critical role. You see, you know, Cisco has clearly targeted that environment and Nicira had some really smart people and some really fundamental technology underneath that would allow networking to go just beyond the virtual machine where it was before, the vSwitch. So, you know, that expansion, and actually, it took a little while for, you know, the Nicira acquisition to run into NSX and that product to gain maturity, and to gain adoption, but as Pat Gelsinger has said more recently, it is one of the key drivers for VMware, getting them beyond just the hypervisor itself. So, so much is happening, I mean, Dave, I look at the swings as, you know, you said, VMware didn't have enough resources, they were going to let the ecosystem do it. In the early days, it was, I chose a server provider, and, oh yeah, VMware kind of plays in it. So VMware really grew how much control and how much power they had in buying decisions, and we're going through more of that change now, as to, as they're partnering we're going to talk about AWS and Microsoft and Google as those pieces. And Pat driving that ship. The analogy we gave is, could Pat do for VMware what Intel had done for a long time, which is, you have a big ecosystem, and you slowly start eating away at some of that other functionality without alienating that ecosystem. And to Pat's credit, it's actually something that he's done quite well. There's been some ebbs and flows, there's pushback in the community. Those that remember things like the "vTax," when they rolled that out. You know, there's certain features that the rolled into the hypervisor that have had parts of the ecosystem gripe a little bit, but for the most part, VMware is still playing well with the ecosystem, even though, after the Dell acquisition of EMC, you know, we'll talk about this some more, that relationship between Dell and VMware is tighter than it ever was in the EMC days. >> So that led to the Software-Defined Data Center, which was the big, sort of, vision. VMware wanted to do to storage and networking what it had done to compute. And this started to set up the tension between with VMware and Cisco, which, you know, lives on today. The other big mega trend, of course, was flash storage, which was coming into play. In many ways, that whole API gymnastics was a Band-Aid. But the other big piece if it is Pat Gelsinger was much more willing to integrate, you know, some of the EMC technologies, and now Dell technologies, into the VMware sort of stack. >> Right, so Dave, you talked about all of those APIs, Vvols was a huge multi-year initiative that VMware worked on and all of the big storage players were talking about how that would allow them to deeply integrate and make it virtualization-aware storage your so tense we come out on their own and try to do that. But if you look at it, VVols was also what enabled VMware to do vSAN, and that is a little bit of how they can try to erode in some of the storage piece, because vSAN today has the most customers in the hyperconverged infrastructure space, and is keeping to grow, but they still have those storage partnerships. It didn't eliminate it, but it definitely adds some tension. >> Well it is important, because under EMC's ownership it was sort of a let 1,000 flowers bloom sort of strategy, and today you see Jeff Clarke coming in and consolidating the portfolios, saying, "Look, let's let VMware go hard with vSAN." So you're seeing a different type of governance structure, we'll talk about that. 2013 was a big year. That's the year they brought in Sanjay Poonen, they did the AirWatch acquisition, they took on what the industry called VDI, what VMware called EUC, End-User Computing. Citrix was the dominant player in that space, VMware was fumbling, frankly. Sanjay Poonen came in, the AirWatch acquisition, now, VMware is a leader in that space, so that was big. The other big thing in 2013 was, you know, the famous comment by Carl Eschenbach about, you know, if we lose to the book seller, we'll all lose. VMware came out with it's cloud strategy, vCloud Air. I was there with the Wall Street analyst that day listening to Pat explain that and we were talking afterwards to a number of the Wall Street analysts saying, "This really doesn't make a lot of sense." And then they sort of retreated on that, saying that it was going to be an accelerant, and it just was basically a failed cloud strategy. >> And Dave, that 2013 is also when they spun out Cloud Foundry and founded Pivital. So, you know, this is where they took some of the pieces from EMC, the Greenplum, and they took some of the pieces from VMware, Spring and the Cloud Foundation, and put those together. As we speak right now, there was just an SEC Filing that VMware might suck them back in. Where I look at that, back in 2013, there was a huge gap between what VMware was doing on the infrastructure side and what Cloud Foundry was doing on the application modernization standpoint, they had bought the Pivotal Labs piece to help people understand new programming models and everything along those lines. Today, in 2019, if you look at where VMware is going, the changes happening in containerization, the changes happening from the application down, they need to come together. The Achilles heel that I have seen from VMware for a long time is that VMware doesn't have enough a tie to or help build the applications. Microsoft owns the applications, Oracle owns the applications. You know, there are all the ISVs that own the applications, and Pivotal, if they bring that back into VMware it can help, but it made sense at the time to kind of spin that out because it wasn't synergies between them. >> It was what I called at the time a bunch of misfit toys. And so it was largely David Goulden's engineering of what they called The Federation. And now you're seeing some more engineering, financial engineering, of having VMware essentially buy another, you know, Dell Silver Lake asset, which, you know, drove the stock price up 77% in a day that the Dow dropped 800 points. So I guess that works, kind of funny money. The other big trend sort of in that mid-part of this decade, hyperconverged, you know, really hit. Nutanix, who was at one point a strong partner of both VMware and Dell, was sort of hitting its groove swing. Fast forward to 2019, different situation, Nutanix really doesn't have a presence there. You know, people are looking at going beyond hyperconverged. So there's sort of the VMware ecosystem, sort of friendly posture has changed, they point fingers at each other. VMware says, "Well, it's Nutanix's fault." Nutanix will say it's VMware's fault. >> Right, so Dave, I pointed out, the Achilles heel for VMware might be that they don't have the closest tie to the application, but their greatest strength is, really, they are really the data center operating system, if you will. When we wrote out our research on Server SAN was before vSAN had gotten launched. It was where Nutanix, Scale Computing, SimpliVity, you know, Pivot3, and a few others were early in that space, but we stated in our research, if Microsoft and VMware get serious about that space, they can dominate. And we've seen, VMware came in strong, they do work with their partnerships. Of course, Dell, with the VxRail is their largest solution, but all of the other server providers, you know, have offerings and can put those together. And Microsoft, just last year, they kind of rebranded some of the Azure Stack as HCI and they're going strong in that space. So, absolutely, you know, strong presence in the data center platform, and that's what they're extending into their hybrid and multi-cloud offering, the VMware Cloud Solutions. >> So I want to get to some of the trends today, but just real quick, let's go through some of this. So 2015 was the big announcement in the fall where Dell was acquiring EMC, so we entered, really, the Dell era of VMware ownership in 2016. And the other piece that happened, really 2016 in the fall, but it went GA 2017, was the announcement AWS and VMware as the preferred partnership. Yes, AWS had a partnership with IBM, they've subsequently >> VMware had a partnership >> Yeah, sorry, VMware has a partnership with IBM for their cloud, subsequently VMware has done deals with Google and Microsoft, so there's, we now have entered the multi-cloud hybrid world. VMware capitulated on cloud, smart move, cleaned up its cloud strategy, cleaned that AirWatch mess. AWS also capitulated on hybrid. It's a term that they would never use, they don't use it necessarily a lot today, but they recognize that On Prem is a viable portion of the marketplace. And so now we've entered this new era of cloud, hybrid cloud, containers is the other big trend. People said, "Containers are going to really hurt VMware." You know, the jury's still out on that, VMware sort of pushes back on that. >> And Dave, just to put a point on that, you know, everybody, including us, spent a lot of time looking at this VMware Cloud on AWS partnership, and what does it mean, especially, to the parent, you know, Dell? How do they make that environment? And you've pointed out, Dave, that while VMware gets in those environments and gives themselves a very strong cloud strategy, AWS is the key partner, but of course, as you said, Microsoft Azure, Google Cloud, and all the server providers, we have a number of them including CenturyLink and Rackspace that they're partnering with, but we have to wait a little while before Amazon, when they announced their outpost solutions, VMware is a critical software piece, and you've got two flavors of the hardware. You can run the full AWS Stack, just like what they're running in their data center, but the alternative, of course, is VMware software running on Dell hardware. And we think that if VMware hadn't come in with a strong position with Amazon and their 600,000 customers, we're not sure that Amazon would have said, "Oh yeah, hey, you can run that same software stack "that you're running, but run some different hardware." So that's a good place for Dell to get in the environment, it helps kind of close out that story of VMware, Dell, and AWS and how the pieces fit together. >> Yeah, well so, by the way, earlier this week I privately mentioned to a Dell executive that one of the things I thought they should do was fold Pivotal into VMware. By the way, I think they should go further. I think they should look at RSA and Dell Boomi and SecureWorks, make VMware the mothership of software, and then really tie in Dell's hardware to VMware. That seems to me, Stu, the direction that they're going to try to gain an advantage on the balance of the ecosystem. I think VMware now is in a position of strength with, what, 5 or 600,000 customers. It feels like it's less ecosystem friendly than it used to be. >> Yeah, Dave, there's no doubt about it. HPE and IBM, who were two of the main companies that helped with VMware's ascendancy, do a lot of other things beyond VMware. Of course, IBM bought Red Hat, it is a key counterbalance to what VMware is doing in the multi-cloud. And Dave, to your point, absolutely, if you look at Dell's cloud strategy, they're number one offering is VMware, VMware cloud on Dell. Dell as the project dimension piece. All of these pieces do line up. I'll say, some of those pieces, absolutely, I would say, make sense to kind of pull in and shell together. I know one of the reasons they keep the security pieces at arm's length is just, you know, when something goes wrong in the security space, and it's not of the question of if, it's a question of when, they do have that arm's length to be able to keep that out and be able to remediate a little bit when something happens. >> So let's look at some of the things that we're following today. I think one of the big ones is, how will containers effect customer spending on VMware? We know people are concerned about the vTax. We also know that they're concerned about lock-in. And so, containers are this major force. Can VMware make containers a tailwind, or is it a headwind for them? >> So you look at all the acquisitions that they've made lately, Dave, CloudHealth is, from a management standpoint, in the public cloud. Heptio and Bitnami, targeting that cloud native space. Pair that with Cloud Foundry and you see, VMware and Pivotal together trying to go all-in on Kubernetes. So those 600,000 customers, VMware wants to be the group that educates you on containerization, Kubernetes, you know, how to build these new environments. For, you know, a lot of customers, it's attractive for them to just stay. "I have a relationship, "I have an enterprise licensing agreement, "I'm going to stay along with that." The question I would have is, if I want to do something in a modern way, is VMware really the best partner to choose from? Do they have the cost structure? A lot of these environments set up, you know, it's open source base, or I can work with my public cloud providers there, so why would I partner with VMware? Sure, they have a lot of smart people and they have expertise and we have a relationship, but what differentiates VMware, and is it worth paying for that licensing that they have, or will I look at alternatives? But as VMware grows their hybrid and multi-cloud deployments they absolutely are on the short list of, you know, strategic partners for most customers. >> The other big thing that we're watching is multi-cloud. I have said over and over that multi-cloud has largely been a symptom of multi-vendor. It's not necessarily, to date anyway, been a strategy of customers. Having said that, issues around security, governance, compliance have forced organizations and boards to say, "You know what, we need IT more involved, "let's make multi-cloud part of our strategy, "not only for governance and compliance "and making sure it adheres to the corporate edicts, "but also to put the right workload on the right cloud." So having some kind of strategy there is important. Who are the players there? Obviously VMware, I would say, right now, is the favorite because it's coming from a position of strength in the data center. Microsoft with it's software state, Cisco coming at it from a standpoint of network strength. Google, with Anthos, that announcement earlier this year, and, of course, Red Hat with IBM. Who's the company that I didn't mention in that list? >> Well, of course, you can't talk about cloud, Dave, without talking about AWS. So, as you stated before, they don't really want to talk about hybrid, hey, come on, multi-cloud, why would you do this? But any customer that has a multi-cloud environment, they've got AWS. And the VMware-AWS partnership is really interesting to watch. It will be, you know, where will Amazon grow in this environment as they find their customers are using multiple solutions? Amazon has lots of offerings to allow you leverage Kubernetes, but, for the most part, the messaging is still, "We are the best place for you, "if you do everything on us, "you're going to get better pricing "and all of these environments." But as you've said, Dave, we never get down to that homogeneous, you know, one vendor solution. It tends to be, you know, IT has always been this heterogeneous mess and you have different groups that purchase different things for different reasons, and we have not seen, yet, public cloud solving that for a lot of customers. If anything we often have many more silos in the clouds than we had in the data center before. >> Okay. Another big story that we're following, big trend, is the battle for networking. NSX, the software networking component, and then Cisco, who's got a combination of, obviously, hardware and software with ACI. You know, Stu, I got to say, Cisco a very impressive company. You know, 60+% market share, being able to hold that share for a long time. I've seen a lot of companies try to go up against Cisco. You know, the industry's littered with failures. It feels, however, like NSX is a disruptive force that's very hard for Cisco to deal with in a number of dimensions. We talked about multi-cloud, but networking in general. Cisco's still a major player, still, you know, owns the hardware infrastructure, obviously layering in its own software-defined strategy. But that seems to be a source of tension between the two companies. What's the customer perspective? >> Yeah, so first of all, Dave, Cisco, from a hardware perspective, is still going strong. There are some big competitors. Arista has been doing quite well into getting in, especially, a high performance, high speed environments, you know, Jayshree Ullal and that team, you know, very impressive public company that's doing quite well. >> Service providers that do really well there. >> Absolutely, but, absolutely, software is eating the world and it is impacting networking. Even when you look at Cisco's overall strategy, it is in the future. Cisco is not a networking company, they are a software company. The whole DevNet, you know, group that they have there is helping customers modernize, what we were talking about with Pivotal. Cisco is going there and helping customers create those new environments. But from a customer standpoint, they want simplicity. If my VMware is a big piece of my environment, I've probably started using NSX, NSX-T, some of these environments. As I go to my service providers, as I go to multi-cloud, that NSX piece inside my VMware cloud foundation starts to grow. I remember, Dave, a few years back, you know, Pat Gelsinger got up on a stage and was like, "This is the biggest collection of network administrators that we've ever seen!" And everybody's looking around and they're like, "Where? "We're virtualization people. "Oh, wait, just because we've got vNICs and vSwitches "and things like that." It still is a gap between kind of a hardcore networking people and the software state. But just like we see on storage, Dave, it's not like vSAN, despite it's thousands and thousands of customers, it is not the dominant player in storage. It's a big player, it's a great revenue stream, and it is expanding VMware beyond their core vSphere solutions. >> Back to Cisco real quickly. One of the things I'm very impressed with Cisco is the way in which they've developed infrastructures. Code with the DevNet group, how CCIEs are learning Python, and that's a very powerful sort of trend to watch. The other thing we're watching is VMware-AWS. How will it affect spending, you know, near-term, mid-term, long-term? Clearly it's been a momentum, you know, tailwind, for VMware today, but the questions remains, long-term, where will customers place their bets? Where will the spending be? We know that cloud is growing dramatically faster than On Prem, but it appears, at least in the near- to mid-term, for one, two, maybe three more cycles, maybe indefinitely, that the VMware-AWS relationship has been a real positive for VMware. >> Yeah, Dave, I think you stated it really well. When I talked to customers, they were a bit frozen a couple of years ago. "Ah, I know I need to do more in cloud, "but I have this environment, what do I do? "Do I stay with VMware, do I have to make a big change." And what VMware did, is they really opened things up and said, "Look, no, you can embrace cloud, and we're there for you. "We will be there to help be that bridge to the future, "if you will, so take your VMware environment, "do VMware cloud in lots of places, "and we will enable that." What we know today, the stat that we hear all the time, the old 80/20 we used to talk about was 80% keeping the lights on, now the 80% we hear about is, there's only 20% of workloads that are in public cloud today. It doesn't mean that that other 80% is going to flip overnight, but if you look over the next five to ten years, it could be a flip from 80/20 to 20/80. And as that shift happens, how much of that estate will stay under VMware licenses? Because the day after AWS made the announcement of VMware cloud on AWS, they offered some migration services. So if you just want to go on natively on the public cloud, you can do that. And Microsoft, Google, everybody has migration services, so use VMware for what I need to, but I might go more native cloud for some of those other environments. So we know it is going to continue to be a mix. Multi-cloud is what customers are doing today, and multi- and hybrid-cloud is what customers will be doing five years from now. >> The other big question we're watching is Outposts. Will VMware and Outposts get a larger share of wallet as a result of that partnership at the expense of other vendors? And so, remains to be seen, Outposts grabbed a lot of attention, that whole notion of same control plane, same hardware, same software, same data plane On Prem as in the Data Center, kind of like Oracle's same-same approach, but it's seemingly a logical one. Others are responding. Your thoughts on whether or not these two companies will dominate or the industry will respond or an equilibrium. >> Right, so first of all, right, that full same-same full stack has been something we've been talking about now, feels like for 10 years, Dave, with Oracle, IBM had a strategy on that, and you see that, but one of the things with VMware has strong strength. What they have over two decades of experiences on is making sure that I can have a software stack that can actually live in heterogeneous environments. So in the future, if we talk about if Kubernetes allows me to live in a multi-cloud environment, VMware might be able to give me some flexibility so that I can move from one hardware stack to another as I move from data centers to service providers to public clouds. So, absolutely, you know, one to watch. And VMware is smart. Amazon might be their number one partner, but they're lining up everywhere. When you see Sanjay Poonen up on stage with Thomas Kurian at Google Cloud talking about how Anthos in your data center very much requires VMware. You see Sachi Nodella up on stage talking about these kind of VMware partnerships. VMware is going to make sure that they live in all of these environments, just like they lived on all of the servers in the data center in the past. >> The other last two pieces that I want to touch on, and they're related is, as a result of Dell's ownership of VMware, are customers going to spend more with Dell? And it's clear that Dell is architecting a very tight relationship. You can see, first of all, Michael Dell putting Jeff Clarke in charge of everything Dell was brilliant, because, in a way, you know, Pat was kind of elevated as this superstar. And Michael Dell is the founder, and he's the leader of the company. So basically what he's created is this team of rivals. Now, you know, Jeff and Pat, they've worked together for decades, but very interesting. We saw them up on stage together, you know, last year, well I guess at Dell Technologies World, it was kind of awkward, but so, I love it. I love that tension of, It's very clear to me that Dell wants to integrate more tightly with VMware. It's the clear strategy, and they don't really care at this point if it's at the expense of the ecosystem. Let the ecosystem figure it out themselves. So that's one thing we're watching. Related to that is long-term, are customers going to spend more of their VMware dollars in the public cloud? Come back to Dell for a second. To me, AWS is by far the number one competitor of Dell, you know, that shift to the cloud. Clearly they've got other competitors, you know, NetApp, Huawei, you know, on and on and on, but AWS is the big one. How will cloud spending effect both Dell and AWS long-term? The numbers right now suggest that cloud's going to keep growing, $35, $40 billion run-rate company growing at 40% a year, whereas On Prem stuff's growing, you know, at best, single digits. So that trend really does favor the cloud guys. I talked to a Gartner analyst who tracks all this stuff. I said, "Can AWS continue to grow? It's so big." He said, "There's no reason, they can't stop. "The market's enormous." I tend to agree, what are your thoughts? >> Yeah, first of all, on the AWS, absolutely, I agree, Dave. They are still, if you look at the overall IT spend, AWS is still a small piece. They have, that lever that they have and the influence they have on the marketplace greatly outweighs the, you know, $30, $31 billion that they're at today, and absolutely they can keep growing. The one point, I think, what we've seen, the best success that Dell is having, it is the Dell and VMware really coming together, product development, go to market, the field is tightly, tightly, tightly alligned. The VxRail was the first real big push, and if they can do the same thing with the vCloud foundation, you know, VMware cloud on Dell hardware, that could be a real tailwind for Dell to try to grow faster as an infrastructure company, to grow more like the software companies or even the cloud companies will. Because we know, when we've run the numbers, Dave, private cloud is going to get a lot of dollars, even as public cloud continues its growth. >> I think the answer comes down to a couple things. Because right now we know that 80% of the spend and stall base is On Prem, 20% in the cloud. We're entering now the cloud 2.0, which introduces hybrid-cloud, On Prem, you know, connecting to clouds, multi-cloud, Kubernetes. So what it comes down to, to me Stu, is to what degree can Dell, VMware, and the ecosystem create that cloud experience in a hybrid world, number one? And number two, how will they be able to compete from a cost-structure standpoint? Dell's cost-structure is better than anybody else's in the On Prem world. I would argue that AWS's cost-structure is better, you know, relative to Dell, but remains to be seen. But really those two things, the cloud experience and the cost-structure, can they hold on, and how long can they hold on to that 80%? >> All right, so Dave here's the question I have for you. What are we talking about when we're talking about Dell plus VMware and even add in Pivotal? It's primarily hardware plus software. Who's the biggest in that multi-cloud space? It's IBM plus Red Hat, which you've stated emphatically, "This is a services play, and IBM has, you know, "just got, you know, services in their DNA, "and that could help supercharge where Red Hat's going "and the modernization." So is that a danger for Dell? If they bring in Pivotal, do they need to really ramp up that services? How do they do that? >> Yeah, I don't think it's a zero sum game, but I also don't think there's, it's five winners. I think that the leader, VMware right now would be my favorite, I think it's going to do very well. I think Red Hat has got, you know, a lot of good market momentum, I think they've got a captive install base, you know, with IBM and its large outsourcing business, and I think they can do pretty well, and I think number three could do okay. I think the other guys struggle. But it's so early, right now, in the hybrid-cloud world and the multi-cloud world, that if I were any one of those five I'd be going hard after it. We know Google's got the dollars, we know Microsoft has the software state, so I can see Microsoft actually doing quite well in that business, and could emerge as the, maybe they're not a long-shot right now, but they could be a, you know, three to one, four to one leader that comes out as the favorite. So, all right, we got to go. Stu, thanks very much for your insights. And thank you for watching and listening. We will be at VMworld 2019. Three days of coverage on theCUBE. Thanks for watching everybody, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCube covering Dell Technologies world 2019 brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Good afternoon and welcome back to theCube day three of our live coverage of Dell Technologies World 2019, I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host Dave Vellante. Hey, Dave. >> Hey, Lisa, how's it going? >> Good. Day three. >> It's cold here. >> It's cold in here. I agree. But we're going to lighten it up with some really good conversation. We've got Rob Emsley back on thCube, Director of Product Marketing for data protection, Dell EMC, Rob, great to have you back. >> Great to be back. >> We got show and tell you brought Adam Schmitt network architect from customer GEI consultants. Welcome, Adam. >> Thank you-- >> Time to heat it up. >> What a great topic he's out with data protection. >> It's a hot topic. You're right. All right. So before we turn the way up on the seat, Adam, give us an overview of GEI Consultants who you guys are, what you do. >> Sure, GEI consultants is an environmental water resources, structural an engineering firm, we focus on anything and everything under the sun from structural geotechnical, bio chemical, you know, pretty much anything and everything engineering. >> So important stuff. Talk to us about before you were using working with Dell EMC, talk to us about your, your infrastructure, on prem, hybrid, what were you doing in terms of ensuring that that data was protected was accessible, so insights can be extracted from it? >> Absolutely. So GEI has 43 offices East to West Coast, and each of those offices has their own actual infrastructure that we have to protect at each site, ranging anywhere between three to 15 terabytes of size. So we're talking a lot of data and a lot of different geographical locations that I as a network architect had to worry about protecting, and one of the challenges of our older infrastructure, we were running 40 servers, just doing file level backups and restores, and we didn't have the ability to do any offline site backups in any locations. Now, we did have those in our primary data centers, and we were able to cross backup from each location to another when necessary, but it was, again, only a file level backup, it wasn't an actual full image, and we didn't have a full cloud picture yet that we could expand on going forward. >> So not a really robust data disaster recovery strategy in the event that you had to get something like that. >> It took several times and there are examples that I could give you office lost hardware in their actual infrastructure and we had to do a restore by restoring the files out an off site location, putting it on a USB hard drive and shipping it to that location, and then having to rebuild the infrastructure from the ground up and copy the data over not a timely manner of free storage. >> Or inexpensive. >> Robin, in the old days, you'd have an admin in the remote office, they load in a tape and it did recycle the tape every day, you know, you'd have it for a week, and then you'd reuse the same tape over and over again. That was the architecture, state of the art back then. >> Yeah, you probably remember something for those ads, there was a picture of a slightly undesirable individual and says, would you like this person to be your backup admin, which I thought was a little bit strange. But now I think things have moved on a little bit. >> What's the architecture look like today? >> Well, you know, one of the things in architecture is a very key word, because we have a belief in a saying that architecture matters, and when you have a distributed network, where you have lots of edge locations, and you have the requirement to protect them, and bring them back to the edge, the architecture that you deploy, really does make a difference. You know, there's a famous Star Trek line, I've heard it a few times this week that you cannot change the laws of Physics, and the amount of data that you move from the edge to the core, you want to make it as small as possible because if you don't, the amount of time that it takes to get data protected from the edge, especially you have lots of edges becomes a real constraint. So that was something which you know, GEI was able to take advantage of. >> So can you do that at speed? Doesn't that change the laws of Physics anyway? We don't go there, okay, so I wonder if you could share with us kind of how you came to this spot? What was life like before? Did you look at any other vendors, you know, paint the picture for us. >> So working with the Dell EMC technical team, as well as the DPS sales team, we were able to come up with a different strategy going forward. But it wasn't after a lot of trial and error when doing proof of concepts with other companies that, you know, made promises that they could do the backups that we needed off site at different locations geographically, but when it came down to it, we were going to have to fork up a lot of money for infrastructure being installed at every single location, whereas Dell EMC, I don't have to deploy any or any hardware, all I had to deploy was a virtual appliance at each location and we were successful in backing up remotely, we tried various technologies that claim that they could do it, and they didn't work successfully. So after a lot of trial and error, roughly, in total about a year's worth of trying, we finally got Dell EMCs technical team and the DPS came on board and we sat down in front of a whiteboard in Boston, Massachusetts, and said, this is what we're trying to paint as a picture, help me paint this as a full blown architecture and make this happen in this design fashion, and luckily, the Dell EMC team was so experienced and has so many different strategies that they can focus on, they were able to take every little thing that we needed, mark every checkbox and deliver a package with DPS for our solution in our own architecture that answered all of my questions instantly. >> You said virtual appliance it's got to run on something. So what is that actually? It's like serverless, right? >> So we have a physical infrastructure at every location, I deployed a virtual CentOS box, that's proxy that talks back to my data domain and communicates the CVT data changes back for backup. So it's not doing a full consecutive backup. That leaves a lot of headroom left over on your actual production server, so that it's not pegged while staff are using it. So I can kick off backups during the day, it takes a snapshot, and then the data gets backed up without anybody knowing. >> So this is really important as you said, Rob, you can't change the law of Physics. I imagine you got a straw and you got to put all this data through. It's like, it's like when you backup your iPhone for the first time it takes forever now. So you're talking about, you know, changed, just checking the changed data, and putting it through that straw, even though it's maybe a little bigger than a straw, so each day, it's just a smaller amount of data, okay, but what happens on a restore? >> On a restore same instance. So we'll restore that file, if we're doing the file level restore to the data domain, and then copy it wherever we need to on the network. Or if we're doing a full image based backup, we can restore that either to the cloud disaster recovery into AWS or Azure, or we can restore it to the actual data domain and Vmotion it wherever we need to after that point. >> So let's talk about business impact Sounds like there was a lot of trial and error, as you explained, really needing to work with a strategic partner who said all right, I get what you're trying to do, obviously, not easy, but you've been able to implement that. So how is GEI's business positively benefiting from this data protection strategy that you've implemented? >> Well, not just on a financial perspective, because we've eliminated the need for a completely separate off site data center, we have everything running in a cloud environment for CDR, so that we can restore instantly anytime that we need to, so we no longer needed to spend the footprint on another network architect on another infrastructure on all the different things that rely on another infrastructure at a separate location, so on top of financial savings for the company, I mean, we saved a huge amount of money, they're on infrastructure, that's only for disaster recovery, it's not doing anything, whereas we can just spend money on object storage in AWS, and use that as our cloud disaster recovery strategy. When you need it, you pay for it for your instances but otherwise, you're just paying for object storage, it's a lot cheaper than ever having to run a full separate data center. >> Specifically what is Dell's role in that equation in terms of the value chain? >> The data domain, we also got CDR, which allows us to use an appliance on premise to talk to an instance server in AWS or Azure, and it after its normal backup period, the backup completes and then shoots all the data that changed up to AWS in an S3 Bucket, and your data stored there and in a VMDK chunk data, that after need for restore can be turned into an AMI for AWS available, and then online whenever you need it. >> So this is very key, you know, on Tuesday, cloud was a big topic, hybrid cloud reality for the majority of customers and Adam and GEI the leverage of AWS is a great example of what many of our clients are looking to do from their investment in the public cloud. Certainly no GEI today is using AWS as a alternative to having to purchase a secondary disaster recovery site, or having to sign up with a managed service provider that's providing like a co-location service for disaster recovery, so using the public cloud and using the software capabilities around cloud disaster recovery, gives them a tremendous opportunity to save themselves a lot of money and do it very efficiently. >> It's like though friends don't let friends build data centers just for DR. Yeah, if you're going to build it for something that gives you a competitive advantage, okay. >> But it's interesting with some of the plans that Adam's got for the future, you know, you want to share some of those as far as what you're thinking about for the next few years. >> So future plans for GEI is definitely more cloud growth and minimizing the footprint that we have on premise, making it so that we don't have to have infrastructure at every location, consolidation of all of our data, obviously, going forward, GEI is going to continue growing with data, with videos that were modeling for different damn inspections, levy inspections, we're collecting a lot of data. But the problem is having that data geographically everywhere makes it challenging for future admins, including myself to continue to restore and backup and keep everybody happy. It's a really challenging task to continue supporting. So going forward with consolidating all that data into a central location, i.e. multi cloud environments, or Dell EMC cloud that was announced this week, we have the option for leveraging multi cloud instances, and being able to keep all of our instances alive in the cloud, rather than on premise. >> So you said put it on one location you talking physically or is it some kind of logical mapping that you're doing? >> There'll be logical mapping with some type of caching technology at the off site so that it's ready and available-- >> So a mapping that allows you to recover really fast if you need to, what about as part of that future in the roadmap, analytics on that of backup data? >> So the analytics on in terms of how much backups are going on on a nightly basis-- >> So specifically, are you using that corporate for any other reason? Well, let's see, might be looking at anomalous behavior, doing stuff with with air gaps, and you know, investigating that other DevOps activities. >> It's interesting that you say that because we were talking about a Data Domain having an air gap last night, at an event and the air gap method, making sure that your data domain is protected, it puts it in a right only mode, so that nobody can get into your data domain and actually do any damage to your data. Because you're right, you're backing out. There are anomalies that happen. If those anomalies happen to get into your infrastructure into your data backups, you could technically get ransomware or you know, locked out of your own data. Whereas Data Domain does support air gap technology, allowing you to lock down the system and require two admins before any changes are made to it. So definitely going-- >> Read only, read only. >> I think I heard that. But it's it's a good question with respect to data reuse is that, you know, the use case that Adam is currently using is to use AWS as a disaster recovery location, but the ability to spin up his data within AWS, yes, for the purpose of insurance, being able to access those production copies within AWS. But why not be able to use those for other purposes, such as interrogation of the data that was in them? That's all things that really start to evolve the conversation from what do you do for data protection to what do you do for data management? >> Yeah, so let's use some of the tool chains in live in AWS, say for example, apply some machine intelligence and machine learning and see what we find there, maybe anticipate anomalies or find some things that we didn't know. >> Absolutely, especially when users are dumping large amounts of data, we had an instance where before we started to actually seeing large data dumps when our data started to grow in the first place, we were inspecting levees and models in Colorado, and we had three engineers fill up an entire server of 4k videos, and our nightly backup all of a sudden said, Hey, you just got a huge amount of data change in an instant. Were you expecting this kind of change? If not, you should probably start knocking on someone's door, so we were able to use that analysis really quickly. >> So looking at day three of Dell Technologies World lots of announcements, Robbie, you kind of talked about some of those, you know, cloud enabled data protection becoming a big focus for you guys, I'm curious, Adam, to get your thoughts on some of the announcements. You mentioned the VMware on Dell, a cloud on Dell EMC, what are some things that really kind of piqued your interest as, hey, we're going to have more and more data coming, we've got lots of edge devices, they talked yesterday about the edges coming what did you hear that you thought, awesome, this is really going to be integral part of our strategy going forward? >> Definitely, so one thing that was mentioned was Power Protect, and that has everybody's interest right now. Because having the ability of basically an Avamar system with all flash or a Data Domain with all flash gives you obvious IO advantages in the future, that's probably going to be my next hot topic that I'm very vigorously researching everything out to see if in a couple of years or sooner that's going to fit into GEI's infrastructure and give us more benefits going forward. >> What's your biggest data protection challenge in 2019? >> Our biggest challenge up front was definitely moving from one backup strategy to a new backup strategy and that's from file level backups, only to image based backups, that was one of the biggest challenges, because anytime you lift a backup infrastructure out of production, and put a new one in, you're starting from zero, you can't really start from where you left off, you had to get all of that data, and geographically 43 offices doesn't seem like a lot, but when you're collecting data at all of those locations, that was a challenge, getting everything worked out and getting everything backed up in the first place. >> So you're knocking down that problem. If you're in a private meeting with Rob and his engineering team is there, what's the one thing that he could do to make your life easier? >> One thing he could do to make my life easier-- >> Drop prices-- >> Oh, sorry, then I have nothing else to say. (both laugh) >> Sounds like you-- >> Really, is that what you were going to say? >> So if we could enhance the performance of DD Boost, DD Boost already does a lot of performance benefits for what we do, DD Boost, in essence of what your network performance is, if there was a way of tweaking that on new servers, when you implement it, for example, we acquire companies every now and then we're implementing their strategies for their backups, and we have to start new backups, if there was a better methodology of seeding rather than having to go out physically plug in a hard drive and an NFL storage, make a clone of it and transfer it back. If there was a different method of seeding that technology or those backups, that would make things a little bit easier. >> Get on that. >> I mean, nobody can ever have enough performance and then, as Adam said, the big part of the Power Protect announcement yesterday was, you know, the introduction of, you know, the industry's first all-flash purpose built backup appliance with integrated software capabilities, and an all flash, I think, over the coming years is going to get is going to become a definite option for secondary storage workloads, not only for the straight performance of backup and restore speeds, but also for this huge opportunity around data reuse, and I think that you'll start to see more flash appearing in the data center, not just for production systems, but also for secondary workloads and where you're storing copies of production. >> At the end of the day, it sounds like you're probably quite the hero to all those folks that need making sure they have access to that data because that's what is, as we say, it's Michael Dell said it's inexhaustible, it's gold, that's what drives the business forward, that's what allows you to identify new products and new revenue streams. So we'll say congratulations on being an enabler of the business so far, we appreciate you guys sharing what GEI is doing and Rob, we appreciate your insights as well. We thank you for spending some time with us on theCube. >> Thank you very much. >> Oh, our pleasure. For Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCube live, Dell Technologies World 2019 day three of theCubes coverage continues in just a moment. (upbeat music)

>> Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCube! Covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, And their ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, live here, in Las Vegas, Amazon Web Services AWS re:Invent 2018. 52,000 people here. Two days. Second day of three days of wall to wall coverage here at theCUBE. I'm John, with Dave Vellante. Dave, six years, we've been doing theCUBE. We've been to all re:Invents except for the first year. We've been a customer, we've been following these guys. >> Plus the summits! >> Plus the summits. Great ecosystem. And VMware and VMworld, similar dynamic. I want to talk about that now, obviously the new announcement, on-premise, is huge. Want to dig in to it with our guest, Sanjay Poonen, who's the Chief Operating Officer of VMware. Sanjay, great to see you. Cube alumni, many times, thanks for coming back again. >> John and Dave, pleasure to be on your show. >> Thanks for coming on, great to see you. >> Congratulations on all this success, you've got a wonderful booth and presence here, and I think this is becoming like the Mecca of all IT events. >> You know, we have our new video cloud service on AWS, we're ingesting over 110 videos, we'll have 500 short video clips behind it. Tons of blog posts, tons of coverage. There's an insatiable appetite for Amazon Web Services content as Andy pointed out in my interview with him. And it's just the beginning. You guys at VMware really, I mean, talk about a seminal moment in the history of the computer industry, and VMware was, when you guys recognized the sea change of operators on IT and cloud developers coming together, you guys were very proactive two years ago. Raghu, yourself, and the team, Pat. We're going to, hey you know what? Let's just align. Culture's a fit with Amazon. Let's co-develop. Let's ride the wave together, and let's see where the chips fall. Which is basically, I'm oversimplifying, but that's kind of what's happened. So much has happened. I saw Raghu last night at the Greylock partner event. This is a historic moment. Good outcome so far, deep partnership, meaningful partnership. A lot of resonance in the marketplace, you guys are iterating and raising the bar. That's Amazon talk for success. How do you feel? >> Yeah, no, I think it's, absolutely, John. We, if you think about how this has evolved, you know five years ago when I joined VMware, I felt like cloud and containers, the two C's, were our big headwinds. We've turned those headwinds now into tailwinds, but it took some catharsis from us. We had vCloud Air, our own public cloud. We had to divest that. And I think the Amazon VMware coming together, when we announced it two and a half years ago, was like a Berlin Wall moment, where you had the US and the Soviet Union getting together. That was good for world peace. People were surprised, because these are two purported enemies now, and it really built trust. And step by step, launching VMware on AWS, announcing RDS on VMware, the beginning of on-premise, and then today, announcing Outposts, it's just an example of not just the validity of VMware as a hybrid cloud leader, but the strength of this partnership. We have a very special relationship with Andy, Pat, myself, Raghu, spent a lot of time together. Often, you can't tell, when our engineering teams meet, when an Amazon engineer and a VMware apart from each other. They're like finishing each other's sentences. That, we don't do, like, Mickey Mouse, Barney, you know press releases. It's real stuff. >> And the culture of, the engineering culture of VMware, which has been a core, cultural thing, the DNA of VMware is technical. Very community oriented. Amazon, technical, very operationally efficient, good community. This is good fit there. I got to get your perspective, though, on how that is going to evolve, specifically around on-premise. Because certainly Andy Jassy validates on-premises with the announcement that VMworld, which you guys covered, Pat Gelsinger uses words like dial tone, Kubernetes, you mentioned containers. Andy, when I asked him, "Andy, you know you told me "in theCUBE, five years ago, "that everything's going to the public cloud. "Change of tune? "You mind if I pin you down?" "No, John, you can pin me down all you want." He says good leaders are self-aware. He said "Our customers wanted this." And he's cool to it. And the partnership with VMware highlights that this is not going to happen overnight, he recognizes the duration, the role of on-premise. And then he also says that the data center's like a big Edge. So, if everything's cloud, what you guys basically announced with Outpost is, cloud, public cloud everywhere. So, just, there's no public, private, it's just cloud. This is a game changer, because-- >> Absolutely. >> Just, why wouldn't I want to buy this product? >> I mean, first off, congratulations on scoring that interview. Not many people have access to Andy that way, and you guys have built a very good relationship. I thought that interview you did with him was phenomenal. There was a special point in that, John, where you tried to get him to talk about Outposts, this was before he announced it, which is will Amazon go on-premise. So a couple of months ago, when Andy called us, and Matt Garman, to talk about this project under NDA, it was a continuation of those RDS type discussions where we basically said, if you want to do anything on-premise, you should do it with VMware, because you're going to have to go through this door called VMware. We are the de facto king of the on-premise private cloud world. Many of these customers are used to our tooling, vSphere, vMotion. They want anything to run on VMware. So from that became a sequence of discussions that really really evolved very quickly, and well, so we can announce this together. I mean, you know, Andy had three guests on stage, and only one partner, and that was VMware. And that's an indication of the strength of this partnership. Vice versa, of the 50,000 people here, probably all of them have VMware on-premise. So if Amazon's going to do more on premise, why not do it with the leader in that area, VMware. And we want to be in the software industry. The de facto standard for software-defined infrastructure. Right? And that's a special space that we can fill. >> Well, the amazing thing to me, is, here's VMware, no public cloud, Amazon wouldn't even say the word hybrid, or private cloud, doesn't use private cloud, but it wouldn't say hybrid before. You've now emerged as the tandem, de facto leader in hybrid cloud. Overnight. With an ecosystem that all wants to connect and partner with VMware and all wants to partner with AWS. Overnight. I mean, it feels that way anyway, 24 months. >> I think that's absolutely right. I mean, we were the first to start using the term hybrid, three or four years ago. As we did, then it took a while, because I think a lot of customers, and some of the public cloud vendors, felt it was going to be binary, all public cloud and no private cloud, but they began to realize you need both. But your point on the ecosystem, also surrounding, I just came back from meeting one of the top SIs in the world. They're betting big with us because they see this as the place for both of them, and they're also betting big with AWS. The System Integrators are all over this. The security vendors, all over this. Palo Alto Networks, Splunk, want to see. Often, many of these companies come to us and say, "You have cracked something special "in your relationship with Amazon. "How did you do that and how can we follow that model?" We're happy to share our playbook of how we think about ecosystems. So, we want to create a platform, just like Amazon's a platform, where everybody, SIs, tech vendors, software vendors, can all plug in to. >> And the other observation I make is, you know, previously the distance between infrastructure players and the guys who really are driving application value, the application developers, was quite a distance. And now it's closing, with infrastructure as code. And it's just so transformative for organizations. >> I think, and one of the things that's making that is microservices and containers. And as you know, since we last talked, we acquired Heptio. If you think about Heptio, they are the founders of Kubernetes, okay? They left Google, started their own company, Craig and Joe, and we're excited about that. That platform will augment PKS, which was our big bet in containers, and become something that could run on-premise, or in a public cloud environment like this. We acquired CloudHealth. CloudHealth is a multi-cloud management tool for costing resource management. That becomes something that could send, a lot of Amazon reps actually refer CloudHealth as the preferred way to get your insights. So we're beginning to see this now a lot more clearly than we did two years ago, thanks to this partnership. >> So, Sanjay, I know that Outposts, super exciting, it's been covered on Silicon Angle, there's a zillion stories on our site on this whole event. But, it's not going to be shipping for about a year. But you guys already have some working products now. What's the current track to that shipping because when that comes out, that'll be a game changer. Why would anyone want to buy hardware again? Michael Dell wins either way because he's got VMware. But others who sell hardware, this is a real, it could be a killer blow. But, I don't want to (laughs), you can comment on that if you want, but what's in-between that one year, you've got a product now, how do customers move along? >> Yeah, I think there's some very tangible things that, first off, VMware Cloud on AWS is, as you've described Dave, the best hybrid cloud option. You get the best of the on-premise world and the public cloud. You know, we announced hundreds of customers, we have a goal to get to thousands of customers, and then tens of thousands of customers. We're going to continue down that march. I want to have a significant number, over 500,000 customers. If Amazon has 40, 50 percent market share, based on some of the numbers that Andy shared today, a significant number of our customers have Amazon, we should get them onto VMC. VMware Cloud and AWS. Secondly, we do have, we announced Project Dimension, some Edge computing capabilities running on existing hardware players, so we are beginning this journey ourselves, in terms of cloud managed on-premise environment. Right? Project Dimension was announced before this, and that will run on Dell and Lenovo hardware, and that's well and good to go. They will have Edge IOT use cases. And then when Amazon comes and gets us ready, we would have learned a lot about this market. Which is really kind of this Edge computing market, cloud-managed. So we're not going to be, we're going to plan and do the other pieces. Much of the software components that VMware is building is not completely from scratch code. We're taking NSX. One of the most important components that VMware is adding to Outposts is NSX. We're not rewriting NSX, we're taking the NSX and applying this now, to a use case that's very much like that because we've adapted NSX now to be container-friendly, cloud-friendly. We've added NSX into the branch, VeloCloud. So those are the things that we're, you know, there's no rest for the weary anymore. >> And that gives you a consistent networking model, which is not trivial, as we've talked about. >> One of the things that I'm excited by, intrigued by, is, I know it's nuanced, but I see it as a key point, containers sometimes don't meet the security boundary issue. So, you guys can run a VM around a container, and run it under the covers. With Lambda. At super lightning speeds. It's not like a ten second instance to stand up. So that means there's more opportunities to create more abstractions around Kubernetes. And maintain security. There's so many benefits from this integrated kind of concept of consistency of operations for the software developer. >> John, you're absolutely right. Part of what we're trying to do is that word you talked about. Consistent infrastructure and operations. Consistent infrastructure and operations. And the container, if you've been seeing some of the ads in the San Francisco airport, we have some in London, and a few of the airports in New York, you'll see an ad that says "Containerware." It's playing on the word "ware", VMware. We want to be everyWARE, W-A-R-E. And if you think about the container being as pervasive as the vm in the future, I'm not going to say we're going to change the name of the company to be Containerware, but we want to be as pervasive as vm has been in VMware. So we have tens of millions of vms, in the twenty years we've had, maybe there'll be ten times as many containers. We want to become that de facto platform and containerware starts to take over. Right? What is that? Kubernetes-based. And we'll partner with the best. We've partnered with Google, we've partnered with Pivotal. Some of it would land on AWS, some of it will land on Azure. And you get a lot of the flexibility you have with that microservices platform. >> So, since you guys are on more of the software side, obviously Amazon's got software, but you guys actually are going to be much more broader, multiple clouds, as Amazon moves up the stack, I would imagine that as customers, I'm not going to buy in to only one cloud, there's other clouds out there, you guys should become a real strategic, traversal between clouds. So, we were debating, will customers have certain instances in, say, different clouds for specific, unique things, but yet run still horizontally, scalable on-premises, with VMware across multiple clouds. >> I think, you know John, it's going to be a lot like the hardware market was 20 years ago. It started to evolve into two or three major players. What's today Dell, HPE, Lenovo, at the time it was IBM, they divested to Lenovo, Cisco. In the storage place, two or three. I think the public cloud is not going to be three, five, ten. It's going to be two or three. Maybe four. And then maybe, in like China, Alibaba. So already, we have certain tools. Like CloudHealth's proposition is to manage costs and resources across multiple clouds. So we began to be already thinking about what is a multi-cloud world do? That said, in areas like this, which is a data center offer, we felt it was good for us to focus and get VMware Cloud and AWS to be the best hybrid cloud option. Give that a couple years, rather than trying to do everything and do it poorly, when you peanut butter your approach and try to do a lot of things with various different, so this is why we put a lot of special attention on VMware Cloud and AWS. We have an offering with IBM. We announced something with Alibaba. In due course VMware will need to have multiple cloud offerings. But I feel like this partnership and the specialness of this has really benefited both sides. >> Well, it's going to be very interesting, because IBM just made a 34 billion dollar validation of multi-cloud, so, and we talk about competition all the time. And it's evolving. >> We have a very good relationship with IBM. And listen, you have to be reasonably nuanced in your partnerships. So we're going to partner very heavily with IBM Global Services. We're going to partner very well with IBM Cloud. We're going to compete really hard with Red Hat! That's okay! Well, we'll compliment Linux. The bulk of their revenue's Linux. >> Of course, yeah. >> But make no mistake, we're going to compete hard with OpenShift. That's okay! That doesn't mean our IBM relationship is competitive. There's one piece of that, a very small part of the Red Hat revenue, OpenShift, that we overlap. The rest of it is complementary. We can be nuanced. It's sort of like walking and chewing gum. We can do both. And that's how we play. >> Before you wrap, now you know what we think of you, we think very highly of you, you're a superstar in our minds. However, you got to interview Sushmita, in India-- >> You know who Sushmita is? >> a true Bollywood superstar. Yes, an amazing actress, beautiful, talented. That must have been quite an experience. >> Well I got to tell ya, I was very intimidated. I opened-- >> I'll bet. >> Cause somehow I get assigned all these interviews to do. Malala, I'm usually on the opposite end. Your end. Malala, and Condoleezza Rice, and I told her I was really intimidated by her, and she said "Why?" I said, it's the first time that, I'm usually not tongue tied, but I did not know how to explain to my wife that I was going to be interviewing Ms. Universe. Okay, and she's like "What do you guys do at VMware? What the heck does Sushmita Sen have to do" But it was a good interview, I mean listen, for the India audience, we were celebrating our 20 year anniversary. She is an amazing woman who has achieved something that very few Indians have. And we wanted our Indian audience there to see that women can be successful. She's a big supporter of more women in business, fairness, equality, no prejudice, equal pay, all those things that we stand for. Which is part of our values. And if it weren't for the India audience she probably, I don't know if she would have worked at a Vmworld. We had Malala there, we had Condoleezza Rice at our last sales kickoff. We do these because we want to both teach our employees something, but also inspire them. And sometimes these speakers help with that cause. >> Sanjay, great to see you, thanks for coming on. I know you got to catch a flight. Big day today for you guys at VMware, congratulations. >> Thank you very much for having me. >> Thanks for all your support, great to see you. Great commentary, great insight. Sanjay Poonen, COO at VMware breaking down the announcement of Outposts, its relevance and impact on the market, and more importantly, the VMware AWS relationship. This is theCUBE bringing you all the action, day two of three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Two sets, hundreds of video assets coming, tons of posts on siliconangle.com, where all the coverage is. We'll be right back with more after this short break. (techno music)

[Music] hi I'm Stu Mittleman and welcome to a cube conversation really excited to have to the program a first-time guest and a user Vinny Chopra is an IT engineer with Medallia Vinny thank you so much for joining us thank you and - Vinny's left we have Krishnan bad Rena Ryan in who's a director of product marketing with Nutanix Chris thanks so much for you here okay so we always love to be able to dig in with the customers understand the challenges they're facing Chris let's set the table first I'm very familiar with Nutanix we go to all the new tannic shows and the like but for customers what is Nutanix to them why do they turn to Nutanix okay absolutely so I think it's a great time to be in IT you see new businesses that are sprouting at all the last 10 years or so starting with uber Airbnb specifically the ones we've really heard of that have disrupted some really really big industries right so technology is making it happen while IT teams are the ones that help make that happen and helps those CEOs disrupt they're not in the best of positions to utilize infrastructure they have today the way it's set up to be able to get more done be more agile and truly serve the needs of the business and help create those competitive differentiation which is why neutronics is here to help our partners within companies such as yourself to be able to be those people to lean in and help CEOs really achieve what they're trying to get that yeah that's great yeah we definitely see it used to be okay IT was a cost center IT you know business would actually ask for something in IT would often be the no or be really slow and do they work with that so Vinnie before we dig into the IDE piece of it tell us a little bit about Medallia the business what's happening what's Sherma Delia's been around for about 15 years now we're located in it we're headquartered in San Mateo we used to be in Palo Alto moved last year we have a brand new building right off 101 a 92 we our analytics company and we and there's a lot of lots of fields in analytics we specialize in an area called CX which stands for customer experience and our goal is to make our customers customers happy which therefore makes our customers happy and we specialize in doing surveys and then especially in designing surveys for different types of companies and then and then we analyze that data you know surveys well Vinny I I find there's very few companies that I talked to whose industries are stagnant or not changing much the analytic space space that we cover heavily you know here here on the cube and with our research it's boy has that changed a lot I mean five years ago we were talking very much about Big Data today you know all the AI ml and and things like that what what give us a little bit about what's it like being in that business you know fast driving your silicon valley-based I have to imagine that the business is going through a lot of changes that put stresses and strains on IT oh definitely so I better the IT industry for many years and IT area different big companies Sun Microsystems Juniper Networks NetApp in the past excite calm which was a search engine way back when before Google days I remember excite you know because Microsoft didn't they buy that or things well there was an early cerulean at home there's a partnership with that on but yeah excited people would confuse as to wait excite calm what kind of site was that it's like no no it's a search engine back before by the way audience for those of you that haven't been around a while it wasn't all just being in Google there were a lot of predecessors that there was four or five big search engines at that time so most of my company had been out we've always been packaging stuff in a box and selling it in this is my first time at an analytics company and it's it's like you said it's a fast-moving field things are being the things there's no development staging production type of stuff things are just continuously being put into production changes are made you know customized you know customer's applications and their interface so it's it's a very fast-moving alright and Vinny you say IT engineers your job what does that encompass what your role how many people in the group what is your sure so we have basically two IT groups we have one that manages our production data centers which are which our customers interface with and we have one that supports our engineers so I'm part of that group and it's kind of a week up art of the IT system and engineering team and that involves traditional IT tasks like backups monitoring application install new server installs managing storage networking basically keeping infrastructure and applications running as efficiently as possible and therefore keeping our engineers happy because they can get their work done and their development done okay sounds like a you know pretty typical from from what I hear from companies is it what do you hear from customers structure-wise challenges they're facing absolutely so it's very much in line with what you were just talking about where there's these multiple needs from the business and customer expectations so how do you really help IT organizations be able to keep up with those needs infrastructure needs to be the big quittez data needs to be Vic witness application services need to be Vic Willis and you need to be able to scale out as your business needs needs to do so to be able to serve all those multiple requirements so whether it's standardizing internal applications that are delivered through virtual desktops or deploying databases are starting up customer websites you need to be able to do that and respond as quickly as possible and if you're spending cycles on acquiring infrastructure deploying it making sure it's well integrated and then once it's up and running figuring out what went wrong and enjoying those multiple nights of pizza right to figure out how to get this thing going back to the way it was it's it just distracts you from what's important so it's only when you make infrastructure invisible and truly scalable very much cloud-like and and make it your own as a process of doing so can you truly be that business partner and you and I hope we've done that with you definitely all right so Bennie let's go inside was there a specific project rollout that you would that led towards Nutanix was there a pain point you were having would give us kind of the before and what was the mature so traditionally an IT you would you want to set up a new application at you in your infrastructure environment you would buy servers and you would buy storage you would buy HBA cards which helps you connect the servers to the storage you've got things like worldwide numbers to worry about getting the right cables getting the right cards and then you put it all together you get all the stuff delivered and then two weeks later you might have things working and but you having some permission issues security issues so it was always a big challenge to get things up and running so it was the fun of ideas let's roll up our sleeves let's turn those geek knobs and you know optimize everything and yeah within six months I'm sure everything's rocking in right everything's rocking rolling but you're still not quite confident that things are running you're worried that a card might go bad you're worried that a world-wide number might change somewhere or somebody might you know mess up your security so you would spend a lot of time just getting things up and running versus spending time on development and you know working with your people you're supporting and trying to try to enhance things versus just keeping things getting things up and running so Nutanix you know with the hyper-converged infrastructure you know what kind of we're not worried about those things anymore it has our storage needs it has our compute needs it has our memory needs so what was it a refresh cycle what was the impetus that led to looking at a new arc sugar as we were growing and entering base was growing an IT was growing and our requests and you know what we need to satisfy was increasing tremendously we before we were working with just individual desks like desktops or blade servers but each one was kind of working individually with its own storage its own applications not the notion things weren't being shared or anything and we were just growing fast so we needed some we need a new infrastructure where we could actually have everything working of most efficiently and be secure and fast and and easy to manage and so we did look at we did some analysis on a few products and Nutanix you know after some a few pocs Nutanix was our product of choice yeah I mean you described something we heard a lot is it used to be every application you would kind of build your own temple for it yeah let me build it let me get the performance I need let me optimize certain things let me forecast how it's gonna grow but I get islands out there as opposed to I want to be able to scale I don't want to worry about you know here's one of the challenges out there most people and across the board forecasting is really hard or impossible I either overestimated a bunch and then I bought stuff I didn't eat her right under missed it estimate it and then oh my gosh I need to look to a new architecture yeah and then things ended up burning like at 10% of you know you utilizing temperature of the resources that you're purchasing yeah I remain poor virtualization it was like you know six seven percent is usually what we were running awesome so challenges before and we had you know silos out there I couldn't share I couldn't do talk about that that role how did you get from that old environment to the new one there's something I said when you you look at this wave of really a distributed architecture in the old world migrations were really really tough yeah and you had to do it with every cycle hopefully moving to an architecture like this this is your last migration it was like you know my wife always said the last time that's the last time I never want to have to move well I T I'm sure those migrations were always painful what was the experience my heading to migrations was is one thing that we went through but also just now it's just setting up new VMs or new applications new servers it's you know within a few minutes versus hours as far as migration we were we were running a hypervisor before but like I said it was on individual servers so the migration was basically picking your VMs or your servers one at a time and just migrating over to Tenex once it was there and you know with the hypervisor tools that are available it's very easy to use it's like things like vmotion or different types of migration tools that Nutanix offers with their hv hypervisor so it was just it was pretty seamless it was just you just pick and choose and identify your destination host ons Nutanix node or Nutanix cluster and all your stories that you want to move it to and just go okay so so Vinnie you went through a bit of a bake-off to figure out the solution tell us when you finish the deployment how are you measuring what does success mean to in deployment of your stand point and give us the after what show does this change for your process your organization sure qualitatively success is when our engineers are smiling and not calling us too much and asking us go to lunch versus telling us about issues they're having so that's qualitatively quantitatively looking at performance CPU memory I ops performance on a storage how our applications responding that that's what we measured it quantitatively yeah did you know like what kind of utilization you're getting on your current infrastructure then with the Nutanix um also currently you meet as far as uh what you said you were lucky to get 10% in the old world do you measure that yeah we met her that week we kind of um you know we have our kind of have our choices of how much storage you want to use how much CPU remember you want to allocate to each VM and we we just monitor it and through the prism interface that Nutanix offers the image you can actually see performance of each VM and you can decide when to throttle things so but as far as you know how much we're utilizing we're you know we have it we have a structured where we have room to grow so yeah absolutely and if we do need to grow later we can easily add nodes or you know chassis wood notes yeah I think back to the early years of you know what we call hyper converge environments and it was like oh well they are monolithic blocks even if they're small and but you don't have flexibility there when I look at you know many of the solutions especially what Nutanix ups there's a lot of flexibility into how I can grow in scale and get the the utilization that I need but get the performance the ops and everything what I think from your customers how is that story play out today yeah I mean ultimately it's all about empowering people right it's about making IT people truly successful broadening their skillset giving them greater control over the full stack if you will right so it's no longer siloed across functions you're no longer found helpless relying on a different team to deliver upon something that was promised based on a certain SLA so how do we do that how do we make evolved functional specialists into IT journalists would then become cloud engineers true cloud engineers right the world is changing technology is adapting businesses are a craving for more and the only way we can keep up is to adapt ourselves and utilize the best of breed technologies that gives us that power so as a result we hear that a lot where we find a lot of a customer's progressing from being either storage admins network specialists but most likely virtualization admins who then become these cloud engineers if you will they reorganize that way they tend to be in a position where they are a lot more infrastructure we're talking about 100x of what they used to do prior in the in the earlier days so the the number of the ratios just grow immensely as well as the quality of service provided the SAS are far reduced as they used to be so all of that goodness that our customers are able to deliver to their state goes in the organization makes us feel good about what we do if any would love we talked about you know this the engineers now they're smiling and going out to further then you know fighting bugs anything complaining about is yeah anything kind of when you look at skill set if they're you know I've talked to some entertainment customer he's like oh you know I had that security project that was sitting on my desk for years I can finally tackle that or there's I can be more responsive to the business so that they don't you know I can engage with them rather than just going off running it and do in stealth IT any anything along those lines that you can share I mean one thing like IT admins we typically want to know everything right so we all know what's happening behind the scenes with Nutanix we don't have to as much but we still like to and so we we take the opportunity to you know do trainings learn what's happening in an interface you support when needed so as far as yeah as far as skills go I think it's you know the skills you keep up with it's just different like Chris mentioned it's different different type of administration like we're managing virtualization or managing cloud you know you're not just managing loans and cables you know I love you sounds like you've got a team that's got that intellectual curiosity wants to understand what's going on how was the how was the on-ramp how was the kind of the cycle to understand the Nutanix piece how did you yeah so we learned a lot of the POC of course that's when you kind of you know you can play around with stuff and break stuff and try to break stuff if you want we use professional we used some freshly served since to help us get set up originally and after that it was just kind of learning day to day and just improving improving our knowledge in different areas like not if we're not used to having everything in one like in you know in one kind of a couple jassi's storage and you know compute so that was a networking as well so that was a little bit not challenged technically but just just you just need to reset the mindset these are the way I used to do things versus the the way now I can't do three and in troubleshooting um you know the great thing is when we have troubleshooting we're not calling three different vendors like a networking company a storage company in a compute company and having them point fingers oh it's networking now we if I ever have an issue or a question I call Nutanix supporting it so if any how long has it been since you the solution was deployed about two and a half years now awesome so it but you first of all I love your viewpoint as to how Nutanix has changed in those two those two years and along those lines too now that you look at things through the lens of 2018 if you could go back to peers of yours what would you tell them now that you wish you had known back when you rolled this out a couple of years ago I would you know how to tell them there's a much easier way to minute you know the deploy and manager infrastructure and you know this is this is one of the new techniques is definitely something you should look at alright Chris what what advice do you give to the IP people of the world that you know I'm sure most of them heard about this but you know what misconceptions might they have what what things do we want to make sure we open the door for sure so as a former developer myself you know several years ago I think it's very easy for us to forget the role we play in our organizations we're not all about the applications we're not all over the speeds and feeds we had a critical core part of how businesses go to market and achieve success right so let us recognize that and use the best approaches that are available out there to be able to deliver that value right if it means going where the good hyper-converged infrastructure solution if it means leaning in and building new disruptive technologies and such that can help your businesses do better the other thing that I want to highlight is just as you are in the the customer service business I believe we are as well we pride ourselves on our support so if you have if ask questions about how hyper-converged infrastructure can add value call us give support a call you would be put in touch with anyone who can speak about all the values we deliver to our customers and begin to get some of those ideas all right Vinnie uh want to ask you you you've got some experience works for some of the you know really well-known companies you not only here in the valley but in tech in general what's exciting you these days what do you look at either in the analytic space or an IT that that's getting you excited for me it's I like to get up without stress and so ease of management ease of deployment in the IT area is very that that's one of things I look forward to like you know being able to do other stuff than just focusing on data you know routine stuff yeah and one of those lines if I could give you you know the one wish to help make that goal even more either from Nutanix or you know the broad ecosystem out there what would what would make your job even easier you know it's it's I don't know I'm trying to think of a good answer but it's typically you know when issues once them all we have application issues it would just be some kind of self-healing type things you know maybe or maybe some automatic adjustments that could be done that maybe something in the future yeah like I just means as far as resources allocated to different types of yeah all right Chris sure I'll let you have the final word there cuz absolutely once we simplify modernize the platform modernizing the application some it's definitely something I've heard from many of your customers as to you know that role of infrastructure really is to serve up and support those applications and that seems to be where it's going that's right that's right the the business partners right partners the business CFO whoever on the other side of the fence they care about applications and services not so much about all the blood sweat and tears we put into the infrastructure so I think it's an opportunity for us to help us elevate beyond the infrastructure and focus on apps and services along with making sure we have some of those self-healing capabilities such that take care of us and not require us to pay heat to all those infrastructure speeds and feeds so it's a great opportunity to do and you know be truly strategic in the company right alright well Chris really appreciate you sharing the updates Vinny really appreciate you sharing your customer story it's our purpose here at the cube to always help bring out the information so make sure to check out the cube net if you actually go to the top there's a search we've got over five or six thousand interviews we've done including many customers including many of Nutanix go in search Nutanix you'll find a plethora of content out there if you ever have any question for us please reach out to us see us at any of the shows or in between so I'm Stu minimun and thanks again for watching the cube thank you

>> Live, from Las Vegas! It's theCube! Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone, it's theCube's live coverage in Las Vegas for VMworld 2018, it's theCube. We got two sets, 24 interviews per day, 94 interviews total. Next three days, we're in day two of three days coverage. It's our ninth year of covering VMworld. It's been great. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, next guest, Cube alumni, number one in the leading boards right now, Sanjay Poonen did a great job today on stage, keynote COO for VMware. Great to have you back. Thanks for coming on. >> John and Dave, you're always so kind to me, but I didn't realize you've been doing this nine years. >> This is our ninth year. >> That's half the life of VMware, awesome. Unreal. Congratulations. >> We know all the stories, all the hidden, nevermind, let's talk about your special day today. You had a really, so far, an amazing day, you were headlining the key note with a very special guest, and you did a great job. I want you to tell the story, who was on, what was the story about, how did this come about? Tech for good, a big theme in this conference has really been getting a lot of praise and a lot of great feedback. Take us through what happened today. >> Well listen, I think what we've been trying to do at VMware is really elevate our story and our vision. Elevate our partnerships, you've covered a lot of the narrative of what we've done with Andy Jessie. We felt this year, we usually have two 90 minute sessions, Day One, Day Two, and it's filled with content. We're technical company, product. We figured why don't we take 45 minutes out of the 180 minutes total and inspire people. With somebody who's had an impact on the world. And when we brainstormed, we had a lot of names suggested, I think there was a list of 10 or 15 and Malala stood out, she never spoke at a tech conference before. I loved her story, and we're all about education. The roots of VMware were at Stamford Campus. Diane Greene, and all of that story. You think about 130 million girls who don't go to school. We want to see more diversity in inclusion, and she'd never spoken so I was like, you know what, usually you go to these tech conferences and you've heard somebody who's spoken before. I'm like, lets invite her and see if she would come for the first time, and we didn't think she would. And we were able to score that, and I was still a little skeptical 'cause you never know is it going to work out or not. So thank you for saying it worked, I think we got a lot of good feedback. >> Well, in your first line, she was so endearing. You asked her what you thought a tech conference, you said too many acronyms. She just cracked the place up immediately. >> And then you heard my response, right? If somebody tells me like that, you tell VMotion wrong she looked at me what? >> Tell them about our story, real quick, our story I want to ask you a point in question. Her story, why her, and what motivated you to get her? >> Those stories, for any of you viewers, you should read the book "I'm Malala" but I'll give you the short version of the story. She was a nine year old in the Pashtun Area of the Swat Valley in Pakistan, and the Taliban setted a edict that girls could not go to school. Your rightful place was whatever, stay at home and become a mom with babies or whatever have you. You cannot go to school. And her father ran a school, Moster Yousafzai, wonderful man himself, an educator, a grandfather, and says know what, we're going to send you to school. Violating this order, and they gave a warning after warning and finally someone shot her in 2012, almost killed her. The bullet kind of came to her head, went down, and miraculously she escaped. Got on a sort of a hospital on a plane, was flown to London, and the world if you remember 2012, the world was following the story. She comes out of this and she's unscathed. She looks normal, she has a little bit of a thing on the right side of her face but her brains normal, everything's normal. Two years later she wins the Nobel Peace Prize. Has started the Malala Fund, and she is a force of nature, an amazing person. Tim Cook has been doing a lot with her in the Malala Fund. I think that actually caught my attention when Tim Cook was working with her, and you know whatever Apple does often gets a little bit of attention. >> Well great job selecting her. How's that relevant to what you guys are doing now, because you guys had a main theme Tech for Good? Why now, why VMware? A lot of people are looking at this, inspired by it. >> There are milestones in companies histories. We're at our 20 year birthday, and I'm sure at people's birthday they want to do big things, right? 20, 30, 40, 50, these decades are big ones and we thought, lets make this year a year to remember in various things we do. We had a 20 year anniversary celebration on campus, we invited Diane Greene back. It was a beautiful moment internally at Vmware during one of our employee meetings. It was a private moment, but just with her to thank her. And man, there were people emotional almost in tears saying thank you for starting this company. A way to give back to us, same way here. What better way to talk about the impact we're having in the community than have someone who is of this reputation. >> Well we're behind your mission 100%, anything you need. We loved the message, Tech for Good, people want to work for a mission driven company. People want to buy >> We hope so. >> from mission driven companies, that stated clear and the leadership you guys are providing is phenomenal. >> We had some rankings that came out around the same time. Fortune ranked companies who are changing the world, and VMware was ranked 17th overall, of all companies in the world and number one in the software category. So when you're trying to change the world, hopefully as you pointed out it's also an attractor of talent. You want to come here, and maybe even attractor of customers and partners. >> You know the other take-away was from the key note was how many Cricket fans there are in the VMworld Community. Of course we have a lot of folks from India, in our world but who's your favorite Cricketer? Was it Sachin Tendulkar? (laughs) >> Clearly you're reading off your notes Dave! >> Our Sonya's like our, >> Dead giveaway! >> Our Sonya's like our Cricket Geek and she's like, ask him about Sachin, no who's your favorite Cricketer, she wants to know. >> Sachin Tendulkar's way up there, Shayuda Free, the person she likes from Pakistan. I grew up playing cricket, listen I love all sports now that I'm here in this country I love football, I love basketball, I like baseball. So I'll watch all of them, but you know you kind of have those childhood memories. >> Sure >> And the childhood memories were like she talk about, India, Pakistan games. I mean this was like, L.A. Dodgers playing Giants or Red Socks, Yankee's, or Dallas Cowboys and the 49ers, or in Germany playing England or Brazil in the World Cup. Whatever your favorite country or team rivalry is, India Pakistan was all there more, but imagine like a billion people watching it. >> Yeah, well it was a nice touch on stage, and I'd say Ted Williams is my favorite cricketer, oh he plays baseball, he's a Red Sock's Player. Alright Sanjay, just cause your in the hot seat, lets get down to business here. Great moment on stage, congratulation. Okay Pat Gelsinger yesterday on the key note talked about the bridges, VMware bridging, connecting computers. One of the highlights is kind of in your wheelhouse, it's in your wheelhouse, the BYOD, Bring Your Own Device bridge. You're a big part of that. Making that work on on the mobile side. Now with Cloud this new bridge, how is that go forward because you still got to have all those table stakes, so with this new bridge of VMware's in this modern era, cloud and multicloud. Cluely validated, Andy Jassy, on stage. Doing something that Amazon's never done before, doing something on premise with VMware, is a huge deal. I mean we think it's a massive deal, we think it's super important, you guys are super committed to the relationship on premises hybrid cloud, multicloud, is validated as far as we're concerned. It's a done deal. Now ball's in your court, how are you going to bring all that mobile together, security, work space one, what's your plan? >> I would say that, listen on as I described in my story today there's two parts to the VMware story. There's a cloud foundation part which is the move the data center to the cloud in that bridge, and then there's the desk job move it to the mobile. Very briefly, yes three years of my five years were in that business, I'm deeply passionate about it. Much of my team now that I put in place there, Noah and Shankar are doing incredible jobs. We're very excited, and the opportunity's huge. I said at my key note of the seven billion people that live in the world, a billion I estimate, work for some company small or big and all of them have a phone. Likely many of those billion have a phone and a laptop, like you guys have here, right? That real estate of a billion in a half, maybe two billion devices, laptops and phones, maybe in some cases laptop, phone, and tablets. Someone's going to manage and secure, and their diverse across Apple, Google, big option for us. We're just getting started, and we're already the leader. In the data center, the cloud world, Pat, myself, Raghu, really as we sat three years ago felt like we shouldn't be a public cloud ourselves. We divested vCloud Air, as I've talked to you on your show before, Andy Jassy is a friend, dear friend and a classmate of mine from Harvard Business School. We began those discussions the three of us. Pat, Raghu, and myself with Andy and his team and as every quarter and year has gone on they become deeper and deep partnerships. Andy has told other companies that VMware Amazon is the model partnership Amazon has, as they describe who they would like to do business more with. So we're proud when they do that, when we see that happen. And we want to continue that. So when Amazon came to us and said listen I think there's an opportunity to take some of our stack and put it on premise. We kept that confidential cause we didn't want it to leak out to the world, and we said we're going to try'n annouce it at either VMworld or re:Invent. And we were successful. A part with these projects is they inevitably leak. We're really glad no press person sniffed it out. There was a lot of speculation. >> Couldn't get confirmation. >> There was a lot of speculation but no one sniffed it out and wrote a story about it, we were able to have that iPhone moment today, I'm sorry, yesterday when we unveiled it. And it's a big deal because RDS is a fast growing business for them. RDS landing on premise, they could try to do on their own but what better infrastructure to land it on than VMware. In some cases would be VMware running on VxRail which benefits Dell, our hardware partners. And we'll continue doing more, and more, and more as customers desire, so I'm excited about it. >> Andy doesn't do deals, as you know Andy well as we do. He's customer driven. Tell me about the customer demand on this because it's something we're trying to get reporting on. Obviously it makes sense, technically the way it's working. You guys and Andy, they just don't do deals out of the blue. There's customer drivers here, what are those drivers? >> Yeah, we're both listening to our customers and perhaps three, four, five years ago they were very focused on student body left, everybody goes public cloud. Like forget your on premise, evaporate, obliterate your data centers and just go completely public. That was their message. >> True, sweep the floor. >> Right, if you went to first re:Invent I was there on stage with them as an SAP employee, that's what I heard. I think you fast forward to 2014, 2015 they're beginning to realize, hey listen it's not as easy. Refactoring your apps, migrating those apps, what if we could bring the best of private cloud and public cloud together enter VMware and Amazon. He may have felt it was harder to have those cultivations of VMware or for all kinds of reasons, like we had vCloud Air and so on and so forth but once we divested that decision culminations had matured between us that door opened. And as that door opened, more culminations began. Jointly between us and with customers. We feel that there are customers who want many of those past type of services of premise. Cause you're building great things, relational database technology, AI, VI maybe. IoT type of technologies if they are landing on premise in an edge-computing kind of world, why not land on VMware because we're the king of the private cloud. We're very happy to those, we progress those discussion. I think in infrastructure software VMware and Amazon have some of the best engineers on the planet. Sometimes we've engineers who've gone between both companies. So we were able to put our engineering team's together. This is a joint engineering effort. Andy and us often talk about the fact that great innovation's built when it's not just Barny go to Marketing and Marketing press releases this. The true joint engineering at a deep level. That's what happened the last several months. >> Well I can tell you right now the commitment I've seen from an executive level and deep technology, both sides are deep and committed to this. It's go big or go home, at least from our perspective. Question I want to ask you Sanjay is you're close to the customer's of VMware. What's the growth strategy? If you zoom out, look down on stage and you got vSAN, NSX at the core, >> vSANjay (laughs) >> How can you not like a product that has my name on it? >> So you got all these things, where's the growth going to come from, the merging side, is the v going to be the stable crown jewels at NSX? How do you guys see the growth, where's it going to come from? >> Just kind of look at our last quarter. I mean if you peel back the narrative, John and Dave, two years ago we were growing single digits. Like low single digits. Two, three percent. That was, maybe the legacy loser description of VMware was the narrative everyone was talking about >> License revenue was flattish right? >> And then now all of sudden we're double digits. 12, 15 sort of in that range for both product revenue. It's harder to grow faster when you're bigger, and what's happened is that we stabilize compute with vSphere in that part and it's actually been growing a little bit because I think people in the VMware cloud provider part of our business, and the halo effect of the cloud meant that as they refresh the servers they were buying more research. That's good. The management business has started to grow again. Some cases double digits, but at least sort of single digits. NSX, the last few order grew like 30, 40%. vSAN last year was growing 100% off a smaller base, this year going 60, 70%. EUC has been growing double digits, taking a lot of share from company's like Citrix and MobileIron and others. And now, also still growing double digits at much bigger paces, and some of those businesses are well over a billion. Compute, management, end-user computing. We talked about NSX on our queue forming called being a 1.4 billion. So when you get businesses to scale, about a billion dollar type businesses and their sort of four, training five that are in that area, and they all get to grow faster than the market. That's the key, you got to get them going fast. That's how you get growth. So we focus on those on those top five businesses and then add a few more. Like VMware Cloud on AWS, right now our goal is customer logo count. Revenue will come but we talked on our earnings call about a few hundred customers of VMware Cloud and AWS. As that gets into the thousands, and there's absolutely that option, why? Because there's 500,000 customers of VMware and two million customers of Amazon, so there's got to be a lot of commonality between those two to get a few thousand. Then we'll start caring about revenue there too, but once you have logos, you have references. Containers, I'd like to see PKS have a few hundred customers and then, we put one on stage today. National Commercial Bank of Jamaica. Fantastic story of PKS. I even got my PKS socks for this interview. (John laughs) >> So that give you a sense as to how we think, there will be four, five that our businesses had scale and then a few are starting to get there, and they become business to scale. The nature of software is we'll always be doing this show because there will be new businesses to talk about. >> Yeah, hardware is easy. Software is hard, as Andy Patchenstien said on theCUBE yesterday. Congratulations Sanjay and all the success, you guys are doing great financially. Products looking really good coming out, the bloom is rising from the fruit you guys have harvested, coming together. >> John if I can say one last thing, I shared a picture of a plane today and I put two engines behind it. There's something I've learned over the last years about focus of a company, and I joked about different ways that my name's are pronounced but at the core of me there's a DNA. I said on stage I'd rather not be known as smart or stupid but having a big heart. VMware, I hope is known by our customers as having these two engines. An engine of innovation, innovating product and a variety of other things. And focused on customer obsession. We do those, the plane will go a long way. >> And it's looking good you guys, we can say we've been to Radio Event, we've been doing a lot of great stuff. Congratulations on the initiative, and a great interview with you today on doing Tech for Good and sharing your story. Getting more exposure to the kind of narratives people want to hear. More women in tech, more girls in tech, more democratization. Congratulations and thanks so much for sharing. >> Thank you John and Dave. >> Appreciate you being here. >> Sanjay Poonen, COO of VMware. Friend of theCUBE, Cube Alumni, overall great guy. Big heart and competitive too, we know that from his Twitter stream. Follow Sanjay on Twitter. You'll have a great time. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, stay with us for more coverage from day two live, here in Las Vegas for VMware 2018. Stay with us. (tech music)