(upbeat music) >> Hello, everyone and welcome back to fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada, where we are here on the show floor at AWS re:Invent. We are theCUBE. I am Savannah Peterson, joined with John Furrier. John, afternoon, day two, we are in full swing. >> Yes. >> What's got you most excited? >> Just got lunch, got the food kicking in. No, we don't get coffee. (Savannah laughing) >> Way to bring the hype there, John. >> No, there's so many people here just in Amazon. We're back to 2019 levels of crowd. The interest levels are high. Next gen, cloud security, big part of the keynote. This next segment, I am super excited about. CUBE Alumni, going back to 2013, 10 years ago he was on theCUBE. Now, 10 years later we're at re:Invent, looking forward to this guest and it's about security, great topic. >> I don't want to delay us anymore, please welcome Mark. Mark, thank you so much for being here with us. Massive day for you and the team. I know you oversee three different units at Amazon, Inspector, Detective, and the most recently announced, Security Lake. Tell us about Amazon Security Lake. >> Well, thanks Savannah. Thanks John for having me. Well, Security Lake has been in the works for a little bit of time and it got announced today at the keynote as you heard from Adam. We're super excited because there's a couple components that are really unique and valuable to our customers within Security Lake. First and foremost, the foundation of Security Lake is an open source project we call OCFS, Open Cybersecurity Framework Schema. And what that allows is us to work with the vendor community at large in the security space and develop a language where we can all communicate around security data. And that's the language that we put into Security Data Lake. We have 60 vendors participating in developing that language and partnering within Security Lake. But it's a communal lake where customers can bring all of their security data in one place, whether it's generated in AWS, they're on-prem, or SaaS offerings or other clouds, all in one location in a language that allows analytics to take advantage of that analytics and give better outcomes for our customers. >> So Adams Selipsky big keynote, he spent all the bulk of his time on data and security. Obviously they go well together, we've talked about this in the past on theCUBE. Data is part of security, but this security's a little bit different in the sense that the global footprint of AWS makes it uniquely positioned to manage some security threats, EKS protection, a very interesting announcement, runtime layer, but looking inside and outside the containers, probably gives extra telemetry on some of those supply chains vulnerabilities. This is actually a very nuanced point. You got Guard Duty kind of taking its role. What does it mean for customers 'cause there's a lot of things in this announcement that he didn't have time to go into detail. Unpack all the specifics around what the security announcement means for customers. >> Yeah, so we announced four items in Adam's keynote today within my team. So I'll start with Guard Duty for EKS runtime. It's complimenting our existing capabilities for EKS support. So today Inspector does vulnerability assessment on EKS or container images in general. Guard Duty does detections of EKS workloads based on log data. Detective does investigation and analysis based on that log data as well. With the announcement today, we go inside the container workloads. We have more telemetry, more fine grain telemetry and ultimately we can provide better detections for our customers to analyze risks within their container workload. So we're super excited about that one. Additionally, we announced Inspector for Lambda. So Inspector, we released last year at re:Invent and we focused mostly on EKS container workloads and EC2 workloads. Single click automatically assess your environment, start generating assessments around vulnerabilities. We've added Lambda to that capability for our customers. The third announcement we made was Macy sampling. So Macy has been around for a while in delivering a lot of value for customers providing information around their sensitive data within S3 buckets. What we found is many customers want to go and characterize all of the data in their buckets, but some just want to know is there any sensitive data in my bucket? And the sampling feature allows the customer to find out their sensitive data in the bucket, but we don't have to go through and do all of the analysis to tell you exactly what's in there. >> Unstructured and structured data. Any data? >> Correct, yeah. >> And the fourth? >> The fourth, Security Data Lake? (John and Savannah laughing) Yes. >> Okay, ocean theme. data lake. >> Very complimentary to all of our services, but the unique value in the data lake is that we put the information in the customer's control. It's in their S3 bucket, they get to decide who gets access to it. We've heard from customers over the years that really have two options around gathering large scale data for security analysis. One is we roll our own and we're security engineers, we're not data engineers. It's really hard for them to build these distributed systems at scale. The second one is we can pick a vendor or a partner, but we're locked in and it's in their schemer and their format and we're there for a long period of time. With Security Data Lake, they get the best of both worlds. We run the infrastructure at scale for them, put the data in their control and they get to decide what use case, what partner, what tool gives them the most value on top of their data. >> Is that always a good thing to give the customers too much control? 'Cause you know the old expression, you give 'em a knife they play with and they they can cut themselves, I mean. But no, seriously, 'cause what's the provisions around that? Because control was big part of the governance, how do you manage the security? How does the customer worry about, if I have too much control, someone makes a mistake? >> Well, what we finding out today is that many customers have realized that some of their data has been replicated seven times, 10 times, not necessarily maliciously, but because they have multiple vendors that utilize that data to give them different use cases and outcomes. It becomes costly and unwieldy to figure out where all that data is. So by centralizing it, the control is really around who has access to the data. Now, ultimately customers want to make those decisions and we've made it simple to aggregate this data in a single place. They can develop a home region if they want, where all the data flows into one region, they can distribute it globally. >> They're in charge. >> They're in charge. But the controls are mostly in the hands of the data governance person in the company, not the security analyst. >> So I'm really curious, you mentioned there's 60 AWS partner companies that have collaborated on the Security lake. Can you tell us a little bit about the process? How long does it take? Are people self-selecting to contribute to these projects? Are you cherry picking? What does that look like? >> It's a great question. There's three levels of collaboration. One is around the open source project that we announced at Black Hat early in this year called OCSF. And that collaboration is we've asked the vendor community to work with us to build a schema that is universally acceptable to security practitioners, not vendor specific and we've asked. >> Savannah: I'm sorry to interrupt you, but is this a first of its kind? >> There's multiple schemes out there developed by multiple parties. They've been around for multiple years, but they've been built by a single vendor. >> Yeah, that's what I'm drill in on a little bit. It sounds like the first we had this level of collaboration. >> There's been collaborations around them, but in a handful of companies. We've really gone to a broad set of collaborators to really get it right. And they're focused around areas of expertise that they have knowledge in. So the EDR vendors, they're focused around the scheme around EDR. The firewall vendors are focused around that area. Certainly the cloud vendors are in their scope. So that's level one of collaboration and that gets us the level playing field and the language in which we'll communicate. >> Savannah: Which is so important. >> Super foundational. Then the second area is around producers and subscribers. So many companies generate valuable security data from the tools that they run. And we call those producers the publishers and they publish the data into Security Lake within that OCSF format. Some of them are in the form of findings, many of them in the form of raw telemetry. Then the second one is in the subscriber side and those are usually analytic vendors, SIM vendors, XDR vendors that take advantage of the logs in one place and generate analytic driven outcomes on top of that, use cases, if you will, that highlight security risks or issues for customers. >> Savannah: Yeah, cool. >> What's the big customer focus when you start looking at Security Lakes? How do you see that planning out? You said there's a collaboration, love the open source vibe on that piece, what data goes in there? What's sharing? 'Cause a big part of the keynote I heard today was, I heard clean rooms, I've cut my antenna up. I'd love to hear that. That means there's an implied sharing aspect. The security industry's been sharing data for a while. What kind of data's in that lake? Give us an example, take us through. >> Well, this a number of sources within AWS, as customers run their workloads in AWS. We've identified somewhere around 25 sources that will be natively single click into Amazon Security Lake. We were announcing nine of them. They're traditional network logs, BBC flow, cloud trail logs, firewall logs, findings that are generated across AWS, EKS audit logs, RDS data logs. So anything that customers run workloads on will be available in data lake. But that's not limited to AWS. Customers run their environments hybridly, they have SaaS applications, they use other clouds in some instances. So it's open to bring all that data in. Customers can vector it all into this one single location if they decide, we make it pretty simple for them to do that. Again, in the same format where outcomes can be generated quickly and easily. >> Can you use the data lake off on premise or it has to be in an S3 in Amazon Cloud? >> Today it's in S3 in Amazon. If we hear customers looking to do something different, as you guys know, we tend to focus on our customers and what they want us to do, but they've been pretty happy about what we've decided to do in this first iteration. >> So we got a story about Silicon Angle. Obviously the ingestion is a big part of it. The reporters are jumping in, but the 53rd party sources is a pretty big number. Is that coming from the OCSF or is that just in general? Who's involved? >> Yeah, OCSF is the big part of that and we have a list of probably 50 more that want to join in part of this. >> The other big names are there, Cisco, CrowdStrike, Peloton Networks, all the big dogs are in there. >> All big partners of AWS, anyway, so it was an easy conversation and in most cases when we started having the conversation, they were like, "Wow, this has really been needed for a long time." And given our breadth of partners and where we sit from our customers perspective in the center of their cloud journey that they've looked at us and said, "You guys, we applaud you for driving this." >> So Mark, take us through the conversations you're having with the customers at re:Inforce. We saw a lot of meetings happening. It was great to be back face to face. You guys have been doing a lot of customer conversation, security Data Lake came out of that. What was the driving force behind it? What were some of the key concerns? What were the challenges and what's now the opportunity that's different? >> We heard from our customers in general. One, it's too hard for us to get all the data we need in a single place, whether through AWS, the industry in general, it's just too hard. We don't have those resources to data wrangle that data. We don't know how to pick schema. There's multiple ones out there. Tell us how we would do that. So these three challenges came out front and center for every customer. And mostly what they said is our resources are limited and we want to focus those resources on security outcomes and we have security engines. We don't want to focus them on data wrangling and large scale distributed systems. Can you help us solve that problem? And it came out loud and clear from almost every customer conversation we had. And that's where we took the challenge. We said, "Okay, let's build this data layer." And then on top of that we have services like Detective and Guard Duty, we'll take advantage of it as well. But we also have a myriad of ISV third parties that will also sit on top of that data and render out. >> What's interesting, I want to get your reaction. I know we don't have much time left, but I want to get your thoughts. When I see Security Data Lake, which is awesome by the way, love the focus, love how you guys put that together. It makes me realize the big thing in re:Invent this year is this idea of specialized solutions. You got instances for this and that, use cases that require certain kind of performance. You got the data pillars that Adam laid out. Are we going to start seeing more specialized data lakes? I mean, we have a video data lake. Is there going to be a FinTech data lake? Is there going to be, I mean, you got the Great Lakes kind of going on here, what is going on with these lakes? I mean, is that a trend that Amazon sees or customers are aligning to? >> Yeah, we have a couple lakes already. We have a healthcare lake and a financial lake and now we have a security lake. Foundationally we have Lake Formation, which is the tool that anyone can build a lake. And most of our lakes run on top of Lake Foundation, but specialize. And the specialization is in the data aggregation, normalization, enridgement, that is unique for those use cases. And I think you'll see more and more. >> John: So that's a feature, not a bug. >> It's a feature, it's a big feature. The customers have ask for it. >> So they want roll their own specialized, purpose-built data thing, lake? They can do it. >> And customer don't want to combine healthcare information with security information. They have different use cases and segmentation of the information that they care about. So I think you'll see more. Now, I also think that you'll see where there are adjacencies that those lakes will expand into other use cases in some cases too. >> And that's where the right tools comes in, as he was talking about this ETL zero, ETL feature. >> It be like an 80, 20 rule. So if 80% of the data is shared for different use cases, you can see how those lakes would expand to fulfill multiple use cases. >> All right, you think he's ready for the challenge? Look, we were on the same page. >> Okay, we have a new challenge, go ahead. >> So think of it as an Instagram Reel, sort of your hot take, your thought leadership moment, the clip we're going to come back to and reference your brilliance 10 years down the road. I mean, you've been a CUBE veteran, now CUBE alumni for almost 10 years, in just a few weeks it'll be that. What do you think is, and I suspect, I think I might know your answer to this, so feel free to be robust in this. But what do you think is the biggest story, key takeaway from the show this year? >> We're democratizing security data within Security Data Lake for sure. >> Well said, you are our shortest answer so far on theCUBE and I absolutely love and respect that. Mark, it has been a pleasure chatting with you and congratulations, again, on the huge announcement. This is such an exciting day for you all. >> Thank you Savannah, thank you John, pleasure to be here. >> John: Thank you, great to have you. >> We look forward to 10 more years of having you. >> Well, maybe we don't have to wait 10 years. (laughs) >> Well, more years, in another time. >> I have a feeling it'll be a lot of security content this year. >> Yeah, pretty hot theme >> Very hot theme. >> Pretty odd theme for us. >> Of course, re:Inforce will be there this year again, coming up 2023. >> All the res. >> Yep, all the res. >> Love that. >> We look forward to see you there. >> All right, thanks, Mark. >> Speaking of res, you're the reason we are here. Thank you all for tuning in to today's live coverage from AWS re:Invent. We are in Las Vegas, Nevada with John Furrier. My name is Savannah Peterson. We are theCUBE and we are the leading source for high tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>>We're back with Jerome West, product management security lead at for HCI at Dell Technologies Hyper-converged infrastructure. Jerome, welcome. >>Thank you, David. >>Hey, Jerome, In this series, A blueprint for trusted infrastructure, we've been digging into the different parts of the infrastructure stack, including storage, servers and networking, and now we want to cover hyperconverged infrastructure. So my first question is, what's unique about HCI that presents specific security challenges? What do we need to know? >>So what's unique about Hyperconverge infrastructure is the breadth of the security challenge. We can't simply focus on a single type of IT system, so like a server or a storage system or a virtualization piece of software. I mean, HCI is all of those things. So luckily we have excellent partners like VMware, Microsoft, and internal partners like the Dell Power Edge team, the Dell storage team, the Dell networking team, and on and on. These partnerships, in these collaborations are what make us successful from a security standpoint. So let me give you an example to illustrate. In the recent past, we're seeing growing scope and sophistication in supply chain attacks. This mean an attacker is going to attack your software supply chain upstream so that hopefully a piece of code, malicious code that wasn't identified early in the software supply chain is distributed like a large player, like a VMware or Microsoft or a Dell. So to confront this kind of sophisticated hard to defeat problem, we need short term solutions and we need long term solutions as well. >>So for the short term solution, the obvious thing to do is to patch the vulnerability. The complexity is for our HCI portfolio. We build our software on VMware, so we would have to consume a patch that VMware would produce and provide it to our customers in a timely manner. Luckily, VX Rail's engineering team has co engineered a release process with VMware that significantly shortens our development life cycle so that VMware will produce a patch and within 14 days we will integrate our own code. With the VMware release, we will have tested and validated the update and we will give an update to our customers within 14 days of that VMware release. That as a result of this kind of rapid development process, Vxl had over 40 releases of software updates last year for a longer term solution. We're partnering with VMware and others to develop a software bill of materials. We work with VMware to consume their software manifest, including their upstream vendors and their open source providers to have a comprehensive list of software components. Then we aren't caught off guard by an unforeseen vulnerability and we're more able to easily detect where the software problem lies so that we can quickly address it. So these are the kind of relationships and solutions that we can co engineer with effective collaborations with our, with our partners. >>Great, Thank you for that. That description. So if I had to define what cybersecurity resilience means to HCI or converged infrastructure, and to me my takeaway was you gotta have a short term instant patch solution and then you gotta do an integration in a very short time, you know, two weeks to then have that integration done. And then longer term you have to have a software bill of materials so that you can ensure the providence of all the components help us. Is that a right way to think about cybersecurity resilience? Do you have, you know, a additives to that definition? >>I do. I really think that site cybersecurity and resilience for hci, because like I said, it has sort of unprecedented breadth across our portfolio. It's not a single thing, it's a bit of everything. So really the strength or the secret sauce is to combine all the solutions that our partner develops while integrating them with our own layer. So let me, let me give you an example. So hci, it's a, basically taking a software abstraction of hardware functionality and implementing it into something called the virtualized layer. It's basically the virtual virtualizing hardware functionality, like say a storage controller, you could implement it in a hardware, but for hci, for example, in our VX rail portfolio, we, or our vxl product, we integrate it into a product called vsan, which is provided by our partner VMware. So that portfolio strength is still, you know, through our, through our partnerships. >>So what we do, we integrate these, these security functionality and features in into our product. So our partnership grows to our ecosystem through products like VMware, products like nsx, Verizon, Carbon Black and Bsphere. All of them integrate seamlessly with VMware. And we also leverage VMware's software, par software partnerships on top of that. So for example, VX supports multifactor authentication through bsphere integration with something called Active Directory Federation services for adfs. So there is a lot of providers that support adfs, including Microsoft Azure. So now we can support a wide array of identity providers such as Off Zero or I mentioned Azure or Active Directory through that partnership. So we can leverage all of our partners partnerships as well. So there's sort of a second layer. So being able to secure all of that, that provides a lot of options and flexibility for our customers. So basically to summarize my my answer, we consume all of the security advantages of our partners, but we also expand on that to make a product that is comprehensively secured at multiple layers from the hardware layer that's provided by Dell through Power Edge to the hyper-converged software that we build ourselves to the virtualization layer that we get through our partnerships with Microsoft and VMware. >>Great. I mean that's super helpful. You've mentioned nsx, Horizon, Carbon Black, all the, you know, the VMware component OTH zero, which the developers are gonna love. You got Azure identity, so it's really an ecosystem. So you may have actually answered my next question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway cuz you've got this software defined environment and you're managing servers and networking and storage with this software led approach, how do you ensure that the entire system is secure end to end? >>That's a really great question. So the, the answer is we do testing and validation as part of the engineering process. It's not just bolted on at the end. So when we do, for example, the xra is the market's only co engineered solution with VMware, other vendors sell VMware as a hyperconverged solution, but we actually include security as part of the co-engineering process with VMware. So it's considered when VMware builds their code and their process dovetails with ours because we have a secure development life cycle, which other products might talk about in their discussions with you that we integrate into our engineering life cycle. So because we follow the same framework, all of the, all of the codes should interoperate from a security standpoint. And so when we do our final validation testing when we do a software release, we're already halfway there in ensuring that all these features will give the customers what we promised. >>That's great. All right, let's, let's close pitch me, what would you say is the strong suit summarize the, the strengths of the Dell hyperconverged infrastructure and converged infrastructure portfolio specifically from a security perspective? Jerome? >>So I talked about how hyper hyper-converged infrastructure simplifies security management because basically you're gonna take all of these features that are abstracted in in hardware, they're now abstracted in the virtualization layer. Now you can manage them from a single point of view, whether it would be, say, you know, in for VX rail would be b be center, for example. So by abstracting all this, you make it very easy to manage security and highly flexible because now you don't have limitations around a single vendor. You have a multiple array of choices and partnerships to select. So I would say that is the, the key to making it to hci. Now, what makes Dell the market leader in HCI is not only do we have that functionality, but we also make it exceptionally useful to you because it's co engineered, it's not bolted on. So I gave the example of, I gave the example of how we, we modify our software release process with VMware to make it very responsive. >>A couple of other features that we have specific just to HCI are digitally signed LCM updates. This is an example of a feature that we have that's only exclusive to Dell that's not done through a partnership. So we digitally sign our software updates so you, the user can be sure that the, the update that they're installing into their system is an authentic and unmodified product. So we give it a Dell signature that's invalidated prior to installation. So not only do we consume the features that others develop in a seamless and fully validated way, but we also bolt on our own specific HCI security features that work with all the other partnerships and give the user an exceptional security experience. So for, for example, the benefit to the customer is you don't have to create a complicated security framework that's hard for your users to use and it's hard for your system administrators to manage. It all comes in a package. So it, it can be all managed through vCenter, for example, or, and then the specific hyper, hyper-converged functions can be managed through VxRail manager or through STDC manager. So there's very few pains of glass that the, the administrator or user ever has to worry about. It's all self contained and manageable. >>That makes a lot of sense. So you got your own infrastructure, you're applying your best practices to that, like the digital signatures, you've got your ecosystem, you're doing co-engineering with the ecosystems, delivering security in a package, minimizing the complexity at the infrastructure level. The reason Jerome, this is so important is because SecOps teams, you know, they gotta deal with cloud security, they gotta deal with multiple clouds. Now they have their shared responsibility model going across multiple, They got all this other stuff that they have to worry, they gotta secure containers and the run time and, and, and, and, and the platform and so forth. So they're being asked to do other things. If they have to worry about all the things that you just mentioned, they'll never get, you know, the, the securities is gonna get worse. So what my takeaway is, you're removing that infrastructure piece and saying, Okay guys, you now can focus on those other things that is not necessarily Dell's, you know, domain, but you, you know, you can work with other partners to, and your own teams to really nail that. Is that a fair summary? >>I think that is a fair summary because absolutely the worst thing you can do from a security perspective is provide a feature that's so unusable that the administrator disables it or other key security features. So when I work with my partners to define, to define and develop a new security feature, the thing I keep foremost in mind is, will this be something our users want to use in our administrators want to administer? Because if it's not, if it's something that's too difficult or onerous or complex, then I try to find ways to make it more user friendly and practical. And this is a challenge sometimes because we are, our products operate in highly regulated environments and sometimes they have to have certain rules and certain configurations that aren't the most user friendly or management friendly. So I, I put a lot of effort into thinking about how can we make this feature useful while still complying with all the regulations that we have to comply with. And by the way, we're very successful in a highly regulated space. We sell a lot of VxRail, for example, into the Department of Defense and banks and, and other highly regulated environments, and we're very successful >>There. Excellent. Okay, Jerome, thanks. We're gonna leave it there for now. I'd love to have you back to talk about the progress that you're making down the road. Things always, you know, advance in the tech industry and so would appreciate that. >>I would look forward to it. Thank you very much, Dave. >>You're really welcome. In a moment I'll be back to summarize the program and offer some resources that can help you on your journey to secure your enterprise infrastructure. I wanna thank our guests for their contributions and helping us understand how investments by a company like Dell can both reduce the need for dev sec up teams to worry about some of the more fundamental security issues around infrastructure and have greater confidence in the quality providence and data protection designed in to core infrastructure like servers, storage, networking, and hyper-converged systems. You know, at the end of the day, whether your workloads are in the cloud, OnPrem or at the edge, you are responsible for your own security. But vendor r and d and vendor process must play an important role in easing the burden faced by security devs and operation teams. And on behalf of the cube production content and social teams as well as Dell Technologies, we want to thank you for watching a blueprint for trusted infrastructure. Remember part one of this series as well as all the videos associated with this program, and of course, today's program are available on demand@thecube.net with additional coverage@siliconangle.com. And you can go to dell.com/security solutions dell.com/security solutions to learn more about Dell's approach to securing infrastructure. And there's tons of additional resources that can help you on your journey. This is Dave Valante for the Cube, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. We'll see you next time.

>>The cybersecurity landscape continues to be one characterized by a series of point tools designed to do a very specific job, often pretty well, but the mosaic of tooling is grown over the years causing complexity in driving up costs and increasing exposures. So the game of Whackamole continues. Moreover, the way organizations approach security is changing quite dramatically. The cloud, while offering so many advantages, has also created new complexities. The shared responsibility model redefines what the cloud provider secures, for example, the S three bucket and what the customer is responsible for eg properly configuring the bucket. You know, this is all well and good, but because virtually no organization of any size can go all in on a single cloud, that shared responsibility model now spans multiple clouds and with different protocols. Now that of course includes on-prem and edge deployments, making things even more complex. Moreover, the DevOps team is being asked to be the point of execution to implement many aspects of an organization's security strategy. >>This extends to securing the runtime, the platform, and even now containers which can end up anywhere. There's a real need for consolidation in the security industry, and that's part of the answer. We've seen this both in terms of mergers and acquisitions as well as platform plays that cover more and more ground. But the diversity of alternatives and infrastructure implementations continues to boggle the mind with more and more entry points for the attackers. This includes sophisticated supply chain attacks that make it even more difficult to understand how to secure components of a system and how secure those components actually are. The number one challenge CISOs face in today's complex world is lack of talent to address these challenges. And I'm not saying that SecOps pros are not talented, They are. There just aren't enough of them to go around and the adversary is also talented and very creative, and there are more and more of them every day. >>Now, one of the very important roles that a technology vendor can play is to take mundane infrastructure security tasks off the plates of SEC off teams. Specifically we're talking about shifting much of the heavy lifting around securing servers, storage, networking, and other infrastructure and their components onto the technology vendor via r and d and other best practices like supply chain management. And that's what we're here to talk about. Welcome to the second part in our series, A Blueprint for Trusted Infrastructure Made Possible by Dell Technologies and produced by the Cube. My name is Dave Ante and I'm your host now. Previously we looked at what trusted infrastructure means and the role that storage and data protection play in the equation. In this part two of the series, we explore the changing nature of technology infrastructure, how the industry generally in Dell specifically, are adapting to these changes and what is being done to proactively address threats that are increasingly stressing security teams. >>Now today, we continue the discussion and look more deeply into servers networking and hyper-converged infrastructure to better understand the critical aspects of how one company Dell is securing these elements so that dev sec op teams can focus on the myriad new attack vectors and challenges that they faced. First up is Deepak rang Garage Power Edge security product manager at Dell Technologies. And after that we're gonna bring on Mahesh Nagar oim, who was consultant in the networking product management area at Dell. And finally, we're close with Jerome West, who is the product management security lead for HCI hyperconverged infrastructure and converged infrastructure at Dell. Thanks for joining us today. We're thrilled to have you here and hope you enjoy the program. Deepak Arage shoes powered security product manager at Dell Technologies. Deepak, great to have you on the program. Thank you. >>Thank you for having me. >>So we're going through the infrastructure stack and in part one of this series we looked at the landscape overall and how cyber has changed and specifically how Dell thinks about data protection in, in security in a manner that both secures infrastructure and minimizes organizational friction. We also hit on the storage part of the portfolio. So now we want to dig into servers. So my first question is, what are the critical aspects of securing server infrastructure that our audience should be aware of? >>Sure. So if you look at compute in general, right, it has rapidly evolved over the past couple of years, especially with trends toward software defined data centers and with also organizations having to deal with hybrid environments where they have private clouds, public cloud locations, remote offices, and also remote workers. So on top of this, there's also an increase in the complexity of the supply chain itself, right? There are companies who are dealing with hundreds of suppliers as part of their supply chain. So all of this complexity provides a lot of opportunity for attackers because it's expanding the threat surface of what can be attacked, and attacks are becoming more frequent, more severe and more sophisticated. And this has also triggered around in the regulatory and mandates around the security needs. >>And these regulations are not just in the government sector, right? So it extends to critical infrastructure and eventually it also get into the private sector. In addition to this, organizations are also looking at their own internal compliance mandates. And this could be based on the industry in which they're operating in, or it could be their own security postures. And this is the landscape in which servers they're operating today. And given that servers are the foundational blocks of the data center, it becomes extremely important to protect them. And given how complex the modern server platforms are, it's also extremely difficult and it takes a lot of effort. And this means protecting everything from the supply chain to the manufacturing and then eventually the assuring the hardware and software integrity of the platforms and also the operations. And there are very few companies that go to the lens that Dell does in order to secure the server. We truly believe in the notion and the security mentality that, you know, security should enable our customers to go focus on their business and proactively innovate on their business and it should not be a burden to them. And we heavily invest to make that possible for our customers. >>So this is really important because the premise that I set up at the beginning of this was really that I, as of security pro, I'm not a security pro, but if I were, I wouldn't want to be doing all this infrastructure stuff because I now have all these new things I gotta deal with. I want a company like Dell who has the resources to build that security in to deal with the supply chain to ensure the providence, et cetera. So I'm glad you you, you hit on that, but so given what you just said, what does cybersecurity resilience mean from a server perspective? For example, are there specific principles that Dell adheres to that are non-negotiable? Let's say, how does Dell ensure that its customers can trust your server infrastructure? >>Yeah, like when, when it comes to security at Dell, right? It's ingrained in our product, so that's the best way to put it. And security is nonnegotiable, right? It's never an afterthought where we come up with a design and then later on figure out how to go make it secure, right? Our security development life cycle, the products are being designed to counter these threats right from the big. And in addition to that, we are also testing and evaluating these products continuously to identify vulnerabilities. We also have external third party audits which supplement this process. And in addition to this, Dell makes the commitment that we will rapidly respond to any mitigations and vulnerability, any vulnerabilities and exposures found out in the field and provide mitigations and patches for in attacking manner. So this security principle is also built into our server life cycle, right? Every phase of it. >>So we want our products to provide cutting edge capabilities when it comes to security. So as part of that, we are constantly evaluating what our security model is done. We are building on it and continuously improving it. So till a few years ago, our model was primarily based on the N framework of protect, detect and rigor. And it's still aligns really well to that framework, but over the past couple of years, we have seen how computers evolved, how the threads have evolved, and we have also seen the regulatory trends and we recognize the fact that the best security strategy for the modern world is a zero trust approach. And so now when we are building our infrastructure and tools and offerings for customers, first and foremost, they're cyber resilient, right? What we mean by that is they're capable of anticipating threats, withstanding attacks and rapidly recurring from attacks and also adapting to the adverse conditions in which they're deployed. The process of designing these capabilities and identifying these capabilities however, is done through the zero press framework. And that's very important because now we are also anticipating how our customers will end up using these capabilities at there and to enable their own zero trust IT environments and IT zero trusts deployments. We have completely adapted our security approach to make it easier for customers to work with us no matter where they are in their journey towards zero trust option. >>So thank you for that. You mentioned the, this framework, you talked about zero trust. When I think about n I think as well about layered approaches. And when I think about zero trust, I think about if you, if you don't have access to it, you're not getting access, you've gotta earn that, that access and you've got layers and then you still assume that bad guys are gonna get in. So you've gotta detect that and you've gotta response. So server infrastructure security is so fundamental. So my question is, what is Dell providing specifically to, for example, detect anomalies and breaches from unauthorized activity? How do you enable fast and easy or facile recovery from malicious incidents, >>Right? What is that is exactly right, right? Breachers are bound to happen and given how complex our current environment is, it's extremely distributed and extremely connected, right? Data and users are no longer contained with an offices where we can set up a perimeter firewall and say, Yeah, everything within that is good. We can trust everything within it. That's no longer true. The best approach to protect data and infrastructure in the current world is to use a zero trust approach, which uses the principles. Nothing is ever trusted, right? Nothing is trusted implicitly. You're constantly verifying every single user, every single device, and every single access in your system at every single level of your ID environment. And this is the principles that we use on power Edge, right? But with an increased focus on providing granular controls and checks based on the principles of these privileged access. >>So the idea is that service first and foremost need to make sure that the threats never enter and they're rejected at the point of entry, but we recognize breaches are going to occur and if they do, they need to be minimized such that the sphere of damage cost by attacker is minimized so they're not able to move from one part of the network to something else laterally or escalate their privileges and cause more damage, right? So the impact radius for instance, has to be radius. And this is done through features like automated detection capabilities and automation, automated remediation capabilities. So some examples are as part of our end to end boot resilience process, we have what they call a system lockdown, right? We can lock down the configuration of the system and lock on the form versions and all changes to the system. And we have capabilities which automatically detect any drift from that lockdown configuration and we can figure out if the drift was caused to authorized changes or unauthorized changes. >>And if it is an unauthorize change can log it, generate security alerts, and we even have capabilities to automatically roll the firm where, and always versions back to a known good version and also the configurations, right? And this becomes extremely important because as part of zero trust, we need to respond to these things at machine speed and we cannot do it at a human speed. And having these automated capabilities is a big deal when achieving that zero trust strategy. And in addition to this, we also have chassis inclusion detection where if the chassis, the box, the several box is opened up, it logs alerts, and you can figure out even later if there's an AC power cycle, you can go look at the logs to see that the box is opened up and figure out if there was a, like a known authorized access or some malicious actor opening and chain something in your system. >>Great, thank you for that lot. Lot of detail and and appreciate that. I want to go somewhere else now cuz Dell has a renowned supply chain reputation. So what about securing the, the supply chain and the server bill of materials? What does Dell specifically do to track the providence of components it uses in its systems so that when the systems arrive, a customer can be a hundred percent certain that that system hasn't been compromised, >>Right? And we've talked about how complex the modern supply chain is, right? And that's no different for service. We have hundreds of confidence on the server and a lot of these form where in order to be configured and run and this former competence could be coming from third parties suppliers. So now the complexity that we are dealing with like was the end to end approach and that's where Dell pays a lot of attention into assuring the security approach approaching and it starts all the way from sourcing competence, right? And then through the design and then even the manufacturing process where we are wetting the personnel leather factories and wetting the factories itself. And the factories also have physical controls, physical security controls built into them and even shipping, right? We have GPS tagging of packages. So all of this is built to ensure supply chain security. >>But a critical aspect of this is also making sure that the systems which are built in the factories are delivered to the customers without any changes or any tapper. And we have a feature called the secure component verification, which is capable of doing this. What the feature does this, when the system gets built in a factory, it generates an inventory of all the competence in the system and it creates a cryptographic certificate based on the signatures presented to this by the competence. And this certificate is stored separately and sent to the customers separately from the system itself. So once the customers receive the system at their end, they can run out to, it generates an inventory of the competence on the system at their end and then compare it to the golden certificate to make sure nothing was changed. And if any changes are detected, we can figure out if there's an authorized change or unauthorize change. >>Again, authorized changes could be like, you know, upgrades to the drives or memory and ized changes could be any sort of temper. So that's the supply chain aspect of it and bill of metal use is also an important aspect to galing security, right? And we provide a software bill of materials, which is basically a list of ingredients of all the software pieces in the platform. So what it allows our customers to do is quickly take a look at all the different pieces and compare it to the vulnerability database and see if any of the vulner which have been discovered out in the wild affected platform. So that's a quick way of figuring out if the platform has any known vulnerabilities and it has not been patched. >>Excellent. That's really good. My last question is, I wonder if you, you know, give us the sort of summary from your perspective, what are the key strengths of Dell server portfolio from a security standpoint? I'm really interested in, you know, the uniqueness and the strong suit that Dell brings to the table, >>Right? Yeah. We have talked enough about the complexity of the environment and how zero risk is necessary for the modern ID environment, right? And this is integral to Dell powered service. And as part of that like you know, security starts with the supply chain. We already talked about the second component verification, which is a beneath feature that Dell platforms have. And on top of it we also have a silicon place platform mode of trust. So this is a key which is programmed into the silicon on the black service during manufacturing and can never be changed after. And this immutable key is what forms the anchor for creating the chain of trust that is used to verify everything in the platform from the hardware and software integrity to the boot, all pieces of it, right? In addition to that, we also have a host of data protection features. >>Whether it is protecting data at risk in news or inflight, we have self encrypting drives which provides scalable and flexible encryption options. And this couple with external key management provides really good protection for your data address. External key management is important because you know, somebody could physically steam the server walk away, but then the keys are not stored on the server, it stood separately. So that provides your action layer of security. And we also have dual layer encryption where you can compliment the hardware encryption on the secure encrypted drives with software level encryption. Inion to this we have identity and access management features like multifactor authentication, single sign on roles, scope and time based access controls, all of which are critical to enable that granular control and checks for zero trust approach. So I would say like, you know, if you look at the Dell feature set, it's pretty comprehensive and we also have the flexibility built in to meet the needs of all customers no matter where they fall in the spectrum of, you know, risk tolerance and security sensitivity. And we also have the capabilities to meet all the regulatory requirements and compliance requirements. So in a nutshell, I would say that you know, Dell Power Service cyber resident infrastructure helps accelerate zero tested option for customers. >>Got it. So you've really thought this through all the various things that that you would do to sort of make sure that your server infrastructure is secure, not compromised, that your supply chain is secure so that your customers can focus on some of the other things that they have to worry about, which are numerous. Thanks Deepak, appreciate you coming on the cube and participating in the program. >>Thank you for having >>You're welcome. In a moment I'll be back to dig into the networking portion of the infrastructure. Stay with us for more coverage of a blueprint for trusted infrastructure and collaboration with Dell Technologies on the cube, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. We're back with a blueprint for trusted infrastructure and partnership with Dell Technologies in the cube. And we're here with Mahesh Nager, who is a consultant in the area of networking product management at Dell Technologies. Mahesh, welcome, good to see you. >>Hey, good morning Dell's, nice to meet, meet to you as well. >>Hey, so we've been digging into all the parts of the infrastructure stack and now we're gonna look at the all important networking components. Mahesh, when we think about networking in today's environment, we think about the core data center and we're connecting out to various locations including the cloud and both the near and the far edge. So the question is from Dell's perspective, what's unique and challenging about securing network infrastructure that we should know about? >>Yeah, so few years ago IT security and an enterprise was primarily putting a wrapper around data center out because it was constrained to an infrastructure owned and operated by the enterprise for the most part. So putting a rapid around it like a parameter or a firewall was a sufficient response because you could basically control the environment and data small enough control today with the distributed data, intelligent software, different systems, multi-cloud environment and asset service delivery, you know, the infrastructure for the modern era changes the way to secure the network infrastructure In today's, you know, data driven world, it operates everywhere and data has created and accessed everywhere so far from, you know, the centralized monolithic data centers of the past. The biggest challenge is how do we build the network infrastructure of the modern era that are intelligent with automation enabling maximum flexibility and business agility without any compromise on the security. We believe that in this data era, the security transformation must accompany digital transformation. >>Yeah, that's very good. You talked about a couple of things there. Data by its very nature is distributed. There is no perimeter anymore, so you can't just, as you say, put a rapper around it. I like the way you phrase that. So when you think about cyber security resilience from a networking perspective, how do you define that? In other words, what are the basic principles that you adhere to when thinking about securing network infrastructure for your customers? >>So our belief is that cybersecurity and cybersecurity resilience, they need to be holistic, they need to be integrated, scalable, one that span the entire enterprise and with a co and objective and policy implementation. So cybersecurity needs to span across all the devices and running across any application, whether the application resets on the cloud or anywhere else in the infrastructure. From a networking standpoint, what does it mean? It's again, the same principles, right? You know, in order to prevent the threat actors from accessing changing best destroy or stealing sensitive data, this definition holds good for networking as well. So if you look at it from a networking perspective, it's the ability to protect from and withstand attacks on the networking systems as we continue to evolve. This will also include the ability to adapt and recover from these attacks, which is what cyber resilience aspect is all about. So cybersecurity best practices, as you know, is continuously changing the landscape primarily because the cyber threats also continue to evolve. >>Yeah, got it. So I like that. So it's gotta be integrated, it's gotta be scalable, it's gotta be comprehensive, comprehensive and adaptable. You're saying it can't be static, >>Right? Right. So I think, you know, you had a second part of a question, you know, that says what do we, you know, what are the basic principles? You know, when you think about securing network infrastructure, when you're looking at securing the network infrastructure, it revolves around core security capability of the devices that form the network. And what are these security capabilities? These are access control, software integrity and vulnerability response. When you look at access control, it's to ensure that only the authenticated users are able to access the platform and they're able to access only the kind of the assets that they're authorized to based on their user level. Now accessing a network platform like a switch or a rotor for example, is typically used for say, configuration and management of the networking switch. So user access is based on say roles for that matter in a role based access control, whether you are a security admin or a network admin or a storage admin. >>And it's imperative that logging is enable because any of the change to the configuration is actually logged and monitored as that. Talking about software's integrity, it's the ability to ensure that the software that's running on the system has not been compromised. And, and you know, this is important because it could actually, you know, get hold of the system and you know, you could get UND desire results in terms of say validation of the images. It's, it needs to be done through say digital signature. So, so it's important that when you're talking about say, software integrity, a, you are ensuring that the platform is not compromised, you know, is not compromised and be that any upgrades, you know, that happens to the platform is happening through say validated signature. >>Okay. And now, now you've now, so there's access control, software integrity, and I think you, you've got a third element which is i I think response, but please continue. >>Yeah, so you know, the third one is about civil notability. So we follow the same process that's been followed by the rest of the products within the Dell product family. That's to report or identify, you know, any kind of a vulnerability that's being addressed by the Dell product security incident response team. So the networking portfolio is no different, you know, it follows the same process for identification for tri and for resolution of these vulnerabilities. And these are addressed either through patches or through new reasons via networking software. >>Yeah, got it. Okay. So I mean, you didn't say zero trust, but when you were talking about access control, you're really talking about access to only those assets that people are authorized to access. I know zero trust sometimes is a buzzword, but, but you I think gave it, you know, some clarity there. Software integrity, it's about assurance validation, your digital signature you mentioned and, and that there's been no compromise. And then how you respond to incidents in a standard way that can fit into a security framework. So outstanding description, thank you for that. But then the next question is, how does Dell networking fit into the construct of what we've been talking about Dell trusted infrastructure? >>Okay, so networking is the key element in the Dell trusted infrastructure. It provides the interconnect between the service and the storage world. And you know, it's part of any data center configuration for a trusted infrastructure. The network needs to have access control in place where only the authorized nels are able to make change to the network configuration and logging off any of those changes is also done through the logging capabilities. Additionally, we should also ensure that the configuration should provide network isolation between say the management network and the data traffic network because they need to be separate and distinct from each other. And furthermore, even if you look at the data traffic network and now you have things like segmentation isolated segments and via VRF or, or some micro segmentation via partners, this allows various level of security for each of those segments. So it's important you know, that, that the network infrastructure has the ability, you know, to provide all this, this services from a Dell networking security perspective, right? >>You know, there are multiple layer of defense, you know, both at the edge and in the network in this hardware and in the software and essentially, you know, a set of rules and a configuration that's designed to sort of protect the integrity, confidentiality, and accessibility of the network assets. So each network security layer, it implements policies and controls as I said, you know, including send network segmentation. We do have capabilities sources, centralized management automation and capability and scalability for that matter. Now you add all of these things, you know, with the open networking standards or software, different principles and you essentially, you know, reach to the point where you know, you're looking at zero trust network access, which is essentially sort of a building block for increased cloud adoption. If you look at say that you know the different pillars of a zero trust architecture, you know, if you look at the device aspect, you know, we do have support for security for example, we do have say trust platform in a trusted platform models tpms on certain offer products and you know, the physical security know plain, simple old one love port enable from a user trust perspective, we know it's all done via access control days via role based access control and say capability in order to provide say remote authentication or things like say sticky Mac or Mac learning limit and so on. >>If you look at say a transport and decision trust layer, these are essentially, you know, how do you access, you know, this switch, you know, is it by plain hotel net or is it like secure ssh, right? And you know, when a host communicates, you know, to the switch, we do have things like self-signed or is certificate authority based certification. And one of the important aspect is, you know, in terms of, you know, the routing protocol, the routing protocol, say for example BGP for example, we do have the capability to support MD five authentication between the b g peers so that there is no, you know, manages attack, you know, to the network where the routing table is compromised. And the other aspect is about second control plane is here, you know, you know, it's, it's typical that if you don't have a control plane here, you know, it could be flooded and you know, you know, the switch could be compromised by city denial service attacks. >>From an application test perspective, as I mentioned, you know, we do have, you know, the application specific security rules where you could actually define, you know, the specific security rules based on the specific applications, you know, that are running within the system. And I did talk about, say the digital signature and the cryptographic check that we do for authentication and for, I mean rather for the authenticity and the validation of, you know, of the image and the BS and so on and so forth. Finally, you know, the data trust, we are looking at, you know, the network separation, you know, the network separation could happen or VRF plain old wheel Ls, you know, which can bring about sales multi 10 aspects. We talk about some microsegmentation as it applies to nsx for example. The other aspect is, you know, we do have, with our own smart fabric services that's enabled in a fabric, we have a concept of c cluster security. So all of this, you know, the different pillars, they sort of make up for the zero trust infrastructure for the networking assets of an infrastructure. >>Yeah. So thank you for that. There's a, there's a lot to unpack there. You know, one of the premise, the premise really of this, this, this, this segment that we're setting up in this series is really that everything you just mentioned, or a lot of things you just mentioned used to be the responsibility of the security team. And, and the premise that we're putting forth is that because security teams are so stretched thin, you, you gotta shift the vendor community. Dell specifically is shifting a lot of those tasks to their own r and d and taking care of a lot of that. So, cuz scop teams got a lot of other stuff to, to worry about. So my question relates to things like automation, which can help and scalability, what about those topics as it relates to networking infrastructure? >>Okay, our >>Portfolio, it enables state of the automation software, you know, that enables simplifying of the design. So for example, we do have, you know, you know the fabric design center, you know, a tool that automates the design of the fabric and you know, from a deployment and you know, the management of the network infrastructure that are simplicities, you know, using like Ansible s for Sonic for example are, you know, for a better sit and tell story. You know, we do have smart fabric services that can automate the entire fabric, you know, for a storage solution or for, you know, for one of the workloads for example. Now we do help reduce the complexity by closely integrating the management of the physical and the virtual networking infrastructure. And again, you know, we have those capabilities using Sonic or Smart Traffic services. If you look at Sonic for example, right? >>It delivers automated intent based secure containerized network and it has the ability to provide some network visibility and Avan has and, and all of these things are actually valid, you know, for a modern networking infrastructure. So now if you look at Sonic, you know, it's, you know, the usage of those tools, you know, that are available, you know, within the Sonic no is not restricted, you know, just to the data center infrastructure is, it's a unified no, you know, that's well applicable beyond the data center, you know, right up to the edge. Now if you look at our north from a smart traffic OS 10 perspective, you know, as I mentioned, we do have smart traffic services which essentially, you know, simplifies the deployment day zero, I mean rather day one, day two deployment expansion plans and the lifecycle management of our conversion infrastructure and hyper and hyper conversion infrastructure solutions. And finally, in order to enable say, zero touch deployment, we do have, you know, a VP solution with our SD van capability. So these are, you know, ways by which we bring down the complexity by, you know, enhancing the automation capability using, you know, a singular loss that can expand from a data center now right to the edge. >>Great, thank you for that. Last question real quick, just pitch me, what can you summarize from your point of view, what's the strength of the Dell networking portfolio? >>Okay, so from a Dell networking portfolio, we support capabilities at multiple layers. As I mentioned, we're talking about the physical security for examples, say disabling of the unused interface. Sticky Mac and trusted platform modules are the things that to go after. And when you're talking about say secure boot for example, it delivers the authenticity and the integrity of the OS 10 images at the startup. And Secure Boot also protects the startup configuration so that, you know, the startup configuration file is not compromised. And Secure port also enables the workload of prediction, for example, that is at another aspect of software image integrity validation, you know, wherein the image is data for the digital signature, you know, prior to any upgrade process. And if you are looking at secure access control, we do have things like role based access control, SSH to the switches, control plane access control that pre do tags and say access control from multifactor authentication. >>We do have various tech ads for entry control to the network and things like CSE and PRV support, you know, from a federal perspective we do have say logging wherein, you know, any event, any auditing capabilities can be possible by say looking at the clog service, you know, which are pretty much in our transmitter from the devices overts for example, and last we talked about say network segment, you know, say network separation and you know, these, you know, separation, you know, ensures that are, that is, you know, a contained say segment, you know, for a specific purpose or for the specific zone and, you know, just can be implemented by a, a micro segmentation, you know, just a plain old wheel or using virtual route of framework VR for example. >>A lot there. I mean I think frankly, you know, my takeaway is you guys do the heavy lifting in a very complicated topic. So thank you so much for, for coming on the cube and explaining that in in quite some depth. Really appreciate it. >>Thank you indeed. >>Oh, you're very welcome. Okay, in a moment I'll be back to dig into the hyper-converged infrastructure part of the portfolio and look at how when you enter the world of software defined where you're controlling servers and storage and networks via software led system, you could be sure that your infrastructure is trusted and secure. You're watching a blueprint for trusted infrastructure made possible by Dell Technologies and collaboration with the cube, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage, your own west product management security lead at for HCI at Dell Technologies hyper-converged infrastructure. Jerome, welcome. >>Thank you Dave. >>Hey Jerome, in this series of blueprint for trusted infrastructure, we've been digging into the different parts of the infrastructure stack, including storage servers and networking, and now we want to cover hyperconverged infrastructure. So my first question is, what's unique about HCI that presents specific security challenges? What do we need to know? >>So what's unique about hyper-converge infrastructure is the breadth of the security challenge. We can't simply focus on a single type of IT system. So like a server or storage system or a virtualization piece of software, software. I mean HCI is all of those things. So luckily we have excellent partners like VMware, Microsoft, and internal partners like the Dell Power Edge team, the Dell storage team, the Dell networking team, and on and on. These partnerships in these collaborations are what make us successful from a security standpoint. So let me give you an example to illustrate. In the recent past we're seeing growing scope and sophistication in supply chain attacks. This mean an attacker is going to attack your software supply chain upstream so that hopefully a piece of code, malicious code that wasn't identified early in the software supply chain is distributed like a large player, like a VMware or Microsoft or a Dell. So to confront this kind of sophisticated hard to defeat problem, we need short term solutions and we need long term solutions as well. >>So for the short term solution, the obvious thing to do is to patch the vulnerability. The complexity is for our HCI portfolio. We build our software on VMware, so we would have to consume a patch that VMware would produce and provide it to our customers in a timely manner. Luckily VX rail's engineering team has co engineered a release process with VMware that significantly shortens our development life cycle so that VMware would produce a patch and within 14 days we will integrate our own code with the VMware release we will have tested and validated the update and we will give an update to our customers within 14 days of that VMware release. That as a result of this kind of rapid development process, VHA had over 40 releases of software updates last year for a longer term solution. We're partnering with VMware and others to develop a software bill of materials. We work with VMware to consume their software manifest, including their upstream vendors and their open source providers to have a comprehensive list of software components. Then we aren't caught off guard by an unforeseen vulnerability and we're more able to easily detect where the software problem lies so that we can quickly address it. So these are the kind of relationships and solutions that we can co engineer with effective collaborations with our, with our partners. >>Great, thank you for that. That description. So if I had to define what cybersecurity resilience means to HCI or converged infrastructure, and to me my takeaway was you gotta have a short term instant patch solution and then you gotta do an integration in a very short time, you know, two weeks to then have that integration done. And then longer term you have to have a software bill of materials so that you can ensure the providence of all the components help us. Is that a right way to think about cybersecurity resilience? Do you have, you know, a additives to that definition? >>I do. I really think that's site cybersecurity and resilience for hci because like I said, it has sort of unprecedented breadth across our portfolio. It's not a single thing, it's a bit of everything. So really the strength or the secret sauce is to combine all the solutions that our partner develops while integrating them with our own layer. So let me, let me give you an example. So hci, it's a, basically taking a software abstraction of hardware functionality and implementing it into something called the virtualized layer. It's basically the virtual virtualizing hardware functionality, like say a storage controller, you could implement it in hardware, but for hci, for example, in our VX rail portfolio, we, our Vxl product, we integrated it into a product called vsan, which is provided by our partner VMware. So that portfolio of strength is still, you know, through our, through our partnerships. >>So what we do, we integrate these, these security functionality and features in into our product. So our partnership grows to our ecosystem through products like VMware, products like nsx, Horizon, Carbon Black and vSphere. All of them integrate seamlessly with VMware and we also leverage VMware's software, part software partnerships on top of that. So for example, VX supports multifactor authentication through vSphere integration with something called Active Directory Federation services for adfs. So there's a lot of providers that support adfs including Microsoft Azure. So now we can support a wide array of identity providers such as Off Zero or I mentioned Azure or Active Directory through that partnership. So we can leverage all of our partners partnerships as well. So there's sort of a second layer. So being able to secure all of that, that provides a lot of options and flexibility for our customers. So basically to summarize my my answer, we consume all of the security advantages of our partners, but we also expand on them to make a product that is comprehensively secured at multiple layers from the hardware layer that's provided by Dell through Power Edge to the hyper-converged software that we build ourselves to the virtualization layer that we get through our partnerships with Microsoft and VMware. >>Great, I mean that's super helpful. You've mentioned nsx, Horizon, Carbon Black, all the, you know, the VMware component OTH zero, which the developers are gonna love. You got Azure identity, so it's really an ecosystem. So you may have actually answered my next question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway cuz you've got this software defined environment and you're managing servers and networking and storage with this software led approach, how do you ensure that the entire system is secure end to end? >>That's a really great question. So the, the answer is we do testing and validation as part of the engineering process. It's not just bolted on at the end. So when we do, for example, VxRail is the market's only co engineered solution with VMware, other vendors sell VMware as a hyper converged solution, but we actually include security as part of the co-engineering process with VMware. So it's considered when VMware builds their code and their process dovetails with ours because we have a secure development life cycle, which other products might talk about in their discussions with you that we integrate into our engineering life cycle. So because we follow the same framework, all of the, all of the codes should interoperate from a security standpoint. And so when we do our final validation testing when we do a software release, we're already halfway there in ensuring that all these features will give the customers what we promised. >>That's great. All right, let's, let's close pitch me, what would you say is the strong suit summarize the, the strengths of the Dell hyper-converged infrastructure and converged infrastructure portfolio specifically from a security perspective? Jerome? >>So I talked about how hyper hyper-converged infrastructure simplifies security management because basically you're gonna take all of these features that are abstracted in in hardware, they're now abstracted in the virtualization layer. Now you can manage them from a single point of view, whether it would be, say, you know, in for VX rail would be b be center, for example. So by abstracting all this, you make it very easy to manage security and highly flexible because now you don't have limitations around a single vendor. You have a multiple array of choices and partnerships to select. So I would say that is the, the key to making it to hci. Now, what makes Dell the market leader in HCI is not only do we have that functionality, but we also make it exceptionally useful to you because it's co engineered, it's not bolted on. So I gave the example of spo, I gave the example of how we, we modify our software release process with VMware to make it very responsive. >>A couple of other features that we have specific just to HCI are digitally signed LCM updates. This is an example of a feature that we have that's only exclusive to Dell that's not done through a partnership. So we digitally signed our software updates so the user can be sure that the, the update that they're installing into their system is an authentic and unmodified product. So we give it a Dell signature that's invalidated prior to installation. So not only do we consume the features that others develop in a seamless and fully validated way, but we also bolt on our own a specific HCI security features that work with all the other partnerships and give the user an exceptional security experience. So for, for example, the benefit to the customer is you don't have to create a complicated security framework that's hard for your users to use and it's hard for your system administrators to manage it all comes in a package. So it, it can be all managed through vCenter, for example, or, and then the specific hyper, hyper-converged functions can be managed through VxRail manager or through STDC manager. So there's very few pains of glass that the, the administrator or user ever has to worry about. It's all self contained and manageable. >>That makes a lot of sense. So you've got your own infrastructure, you're applying your best practices to that, like the digital signatures, you've got your ecosystem, you're doing co-engineering with the ecosystems, delivering security in a package, minimizing the complexity at the infrastructure level. The reason Jerome, this is so important is because SecOps teams, you know, they gotta deal with cloud security, they gotta deal with multiple clouds. Now they have their shared responsibility model going across multiple cl. They got all this other stuff that they have to worry, they gotta secure the containers and the run time and and, and, and, and the platform and so forth. So they're being asked to do other things. If they have to worry about all the things that you just mentioned, they'll never get, you know, the, the securities is gonna get worse. So what my takeaway is, you're removing that infrastructure piece and saying, Okay guys, you now can focus on those other things that is not necessarily Dell's, you know, domain, but you, you know, you can work with other partners to and your own teams to really nail that. Is that a fair summary? >>I think that is a fair summary because absolutely the worst thing you can do from a security perspective is provide a feature that's so unusable that the administrator disables it or other key security features. So when I work with my partners to define, to define and develop a new security feature, the thing I keep foremost in mind is, will this be something our users want to use and our administrators want to administer? Because if it's not, if it's something that's too difficult or onerous or complex, then I try to find ways to make it more user friendly and practical. And this is a challenge sometimes because we are, our products operate in highly regulated environments and sometimes they have to have certain rules and certain configurations that aren't the most user friendly or management friendly. So I, I put a lot of effort into thinking about how can we make this feature useful while still complying with all the regulations that we have to comply with. And by the way, we're very successful in a highly regulated space. We sell a lot of VxRail, for example, into the Department of Defense and banks and, and other highly regulated environments and we're very successful there. >>Excellent. Okay, Jerome, thanks. We're gonna leave it there for now. I'd love to have you back to talk about the progress that you're making down the road. Things always, you know, advance in the tech industry and so would appreciate that. >>I would look forward to it. Thank you very much, Dave. >>You're really welcome. In a moment I'll be back to summarize the program and offer some resources that can help you on your journey to secure your enterprise infrastructure. I wanna thank our guests for their contributions in helping us understand how investments by a company like Dell can both reduce the need for dev sec up teams to worry about some of the more fundamental security issues around infrastructure and have greater confidence in the quality providence and data protection designed in to core infrastructure like servers, storage, networking, and hyper-converged systems. You know, at the end of the day, whether your workloads are in the cloud, on prem or at the edge, you are responsible for your own security. But vendor r and d and vendor process must play an important role in easing the burden faced by security devs and operation teams. And on behalf of the cube production content and social teams as well as Dell Technologies, we want to thank you for watching a blueprint for trusted infrastructure. Remember part one of this series as well as all the videos associated with this program and of course today's program are available on demand@thecube.net with additional coverage@siliconangle.com. And you can go to dell.com/security solutions dell.com/security solutions to learn more about Dell's approach to securing infrastructure. And there's tons of additional resources that can help you on your journey. This is Dave Valante for the Cube, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. We'll see you next time.

(bright upbeat music) >> In 2011, early Facebook employee and Cloudera co-founder Jeff Hammerbacher famously said, "The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to get people to click on ads, and that sucks!" Let's face it. More than a decade later, organizations continue to be frustrated with how difficult it is to get value from data and build a truly agile and data-driven enterprise. What does that even mean, you ask? Well, it means that everyone in the organization has the data they need when they need it in a context that's relevant to advance the mission of an organization. Now, that could mean cutting costs, could mean increasing profits, driving productivity, saving lives, accelerating drug discovery, making better diagnoses, solving supply chain problems, predicting weather disasters, simplifying processes, and thousands of other examples where data can completely transform people's lives beyond manipulating internet users to behave a certain way. We've heard the prognostications about the possibilities of data before and in fairness we've made progress, but the hard truth is the original promises of master data management, enterprise data warehouses, data marts, data hubs, and yes even data lakes were broken and left us wanting for more. Welcome to The Data Doesn't Lie... Or Does It? A series of conversations produced by theCUBE and made possible by Starburst Data. I'm your host, Dave Vellante, and joining me today are three industry experts. Justin Borgman is the co-founder and CEO of Starburst, Richard Jarvis is the CTO at EMIS Health, and Teresa Tung is cloud first technologist at Accenture. Today, we're going to have a candid discussion that will expose the unfulfilled, and yes, broken promises of a data past. We'll expose data lies: big lies, little lies, white lies, and hidden truths. And we'll challenge, age old data conventions and bust some data myths. We're debating questions like is the demise of a single source of truth inevitable? Will the data warehouse ever have feature parity with the data lake or vice versa? Is the so-called modern data stack simply centralization in the cloud, AKA the old guards model in new cloud close? How can organizations rethink their data architectures and regimes to realize the true promises of data? Can and will an open ecosystem deliver on these promises in our lifetimes? We're spanning much of the Western world today. Richard is in the UK, Teresa is on the West Coast, and Justin is in Massachusetts with me. I'm in theCUBE studios, about 30 miles outside of Boston. Folks, welcome to the program. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having us. >> Okay, let's get right into it. You're very welcome. Now, here's the first lie. The most effective data architecture is one that is centralized with a team of data specialists serving various lines of business. What do you think Justin? >> Yeah, definitely a lie. My first startup was a company called Hadapt, which was an early SQL engine for IDU that was acquired by Teradata. And when I got to Teradata, of course, Teradata is the pioneer of that central enterprise data warehouse model. One of the things that I found fascinating was that not one of their customers had actually lived up to that vision of centralizing all of their data into one place. They all had data silos. They all had data in different systems. They had data on prem, data in the cloud. Those companies were acquiring other companies and inheriting their data architecture. So despite being the industry leader for 40 years, not one of their customers truly had everything in one place. So I think definitely history has proven that to be a lie. >> So Richard, from a practitioner's point of view, what are your thoughts? I mean, there's a lot of pressure to cut cost, keep things centralized, serve the business as best as possible from that standpoint. What does your experience show? >> Yeah, I mean, I think I would echo Justin's experience really that we as a business have grown up through acquisition, through storing data in different places sometimes to do information governance in different ways to store data in a platform that's close to data experts people who really understand healthcare data from pharmacies or from doctors. And so, although if you were starting from a greenfield site and you were building something brand new, you might be able to centralize all the data and all of the tooling and teams in one place. The reality is that businesses just don't grow up like that. And it's just really impossible to get that academic perfection of storing everything in one place. >> Teresa, I feel like Sarbanes-Oxley have kind of saved the data warehouse, right? (laughs) You actually did have to have a single version of the truth for certain financial data, but really for some of those other use cases I mentioned, I do feel like the industry has kind of let us down. What's your take on this? Where does it make sense to have that sort of centralized approach versus where does it make sense to maybe decentralize? >> I think you got to have centralized governance, right? So from the central team, for things like Sarbanes-Oxley, for things like security, for certain very core data sets having a centralized set of roles, responsibilities to really QA, right? To serve as a design authority for your entire data estate, just like you might with security, but how it's implemented has to be distributed. Otherwise, you're not going to be able to scale, right? So being able to have different parts of the business really make the right data investments for their needs. And then ultimately, you're going to collaborate with your partners. So partners that are not within the company, right? External partners. We're going to see a lot more data sharing and model creation. And so you're definitely going to be decentralized. >> So Justin, you guys last, jeez, I think it was about a year ago, had a session on data mesh. It was a great program. You invited Zhamak Dehghani. Of course, she's the creator of the data mesh. One of our fundamental premises is that you've got this hyper specialized team that you've got to go through if you want anything. But at the same time, these individuals actually become a bottleneck, even though they're some of the most talented people in the organization. So I guess, a question for you Richard. How do you deal with that? Do you organize so that there are a few sort of rock stars that build cubes and the like or have you had any success in sort of decentralizing with your constituencies that data model? >> Yeah. So we absolutely have got rockstar data scientists and data guardians, if you like. People who understand what it means to use this data, particularly the data that we use at EMIS is very private, it's healthcare information. And some of the rules and regulations around using the data are very complex and strict. So we have to have people who understand the usage of the data, then people who understand how to build models, how to process the data effectively. And you can think of them like consultants to the wider business because a pharmacist might not understand how to structure a SQL query, but they do understand how they want to process medication information to improve patient lives. And so that becomes a consulting type experience from a set of rock stars to help a more decentralized business who needs to understand the data and to generate some valuable output. >> Justin, what do you say to a customer or prospect that says, "Look, Justin. I got a centralized team and that's the most cost effective way to serve the business. Otherwise, I got duplication." What do you say to that? >> Well, I would argue it's probably not the most cost effective, and the reason being really twofold. I think, first of all, when you are deploying a enterprise data warehouse model, the data warehouse itself is very expensive, generally speaking. And so you're putting all of your most valuable data in the hands of one vendor who now has tremendous leverage over you for many, many years to come. I think that's the story at Oracle or Teradata or other proprietary database systems. But the other aspect I think is that the reality is those central data warehouse teams, as much as they are experts in the technology, they don't necessarily understand the data itself. And this is one of the core tenets of data mesh that Zhamak writes about is this idea of the domain owners actually know the data the best. And so by not only acknowledging that data is generally decentralized, and to your earlier point about Sarbanes-Oxley, maybe saving the data warehouse, I would argue maybe GDPR and data sovereignty will destroy it because data has to be decentralized for those laws to be compliant. But I think the reality is the data mesh model basically says data's decentralized and we're going to turn that into an asset rather than a liability. And we're going to turn that into an asset by empowering the people that know the data the best to participate in the process of curating and creating data products for consumption. So I think when you think about it that way, you're going to get higher quality data and faster time to insight, which is ultimately going to drive more revenue for your business and reduce costs. So I think that that's the way I see the two models comparing and contrasting. >> So do you think the demise of the data warehouse is inevitable? Teresa, you work with a lot of clients. They're not just going to rip and replace their existing infrastructure. Maybe they're going to build on top of it, but what does that mean? Does that mean the EDW just becomes less and less valuable over time or it's maybe just isolated to specific use cases? What's your take on that? >> Listen, I still would love all my data within a data warehouse. I would love it mastered, would love it owned by a central team, right? I think that's still what I would love to have. That's just not the reality, right? The investment to actually migrate and keep that up to date, I would say it's a losing battle. Like we've been trying to do it for a long time. Nobody has the budgets and then data changes, right? There's going to be a new technology that's going to emerge that we're going to want to tap into. There's going to be not enough investment to bring all the legacy, but still very useful systems into that centralized view. So you keep the data warehouse. I think it's a very, very valuable, very high performance tool for what it's there for, but you could have this new mesh layer that still takes advantage of the things I mentioned: the data products in the systems that are meaningful today, and the data products that actually might span a number of systems. Maybe either those that either source systems with the domains that know it best, or the consumer-based systems or products that need to be packaged in a way that'd be really meaningful for that end user, right? Each of those are useful for a different part of the business and making sure that the mesh actually allows you to use all of them. >> So, Richard, let me ask you. Take Zhamak's principles back to those. You got the domain ownership and data as product. Okay, great. Sounds good. But it creates what I would argue are two challenges: self-serve infrastructure, let's park that for a second, and then in your industry, one of the most regulated, most sensitive, computational governance. How do you automate and ensure federated governance in that mesh model that Teresa was just talking about? >> Well, it absolutely depends on some of the tooling and processes that you put in place around those tools to centralize the security and the governance of the data. And I think although a data warehouse makes that very simple 'cause it's a single tool, it's not impossible with some of the data mesh technologies that are available. And so what we've done at EMIS is we have a single security layer that sits on top of our data mesh, which means that no matter which user is accessing which data source, we go through a well audited, well understood security layer. That means that we know exactly who's got access to which data field, which data tables. And then everything that they do is audited in a very kind of standard way regardless of the underlying data storage technology. So for me, although storing the data in one place might not be possible, understanding where your source of truth is and securing that in a common way is still a valuable approach, and you can do it without having to bring all that data into a single bucket so that it's all in one place. And so having done that and investing quite heavily in making that possible has paid dividends in terms of giving wider access to the platform, and ensuring that only data that's available under GDPR and other regulations is being used by the data users. >> Yeah. So Justin, we always talk about data democratization, and up until recently, they really haven't been line of sight as to how to get there, but do you have anything to add to this because you're essentially doing analytic queries with data that's all dispersed all over. How are you seeing your customers handle this challenge? >> Yeah, I mean, I think data products is a really interesting aspect of the answer to that. It allows you to, again, leverage the data domain owners, the people who know the data the best, to create data as a product ultimately to be consumed. And we try to represent that in our product as effectively, almost eCommerce like experience where you go and discover and look for the data products that have been created in your organization, and then you can start to consume them as you'd like. And so really trying to build on that notion of data democratization and self-service, and making it very easy to discover and start to use with whatever BI tool you may like or even just running SQL queries yourself. >> Okay guys, grab a sip of water. After the short break, we'll be back to debate whether proprietary or open platforms are the best path to the future of data excellence. Keep it right there. (bright upbeat music)

(bright music) >> The challenges of legacy data warehouses and traditional business intelligence systems, they've been well-documented. They're built on rigid infrastructure, and they're managed by really specialized gatekeepers. Data warehouses of the past were, as one financial customer once said to me, like a snake swallowing a basketball, imagine that. The amount of data ingested into a data warehouse has just overwhelmed the system. Every time Intel came out with a new microprocessor, practitioners, they would chase the chip in an effort to try to compress the overly restrictive elapsed time to insights, and this cycle repeated itself for decades. Cloud data warehouses, generally, and Snowflake, specifically, changed all this. Not only were resources virtually infinite, but the ability to separate, compute from storage, it actually turned off the compute when you weren't using it, permanently altered the cost, the performance, the scale and the value equation. But as data makes its way into the cloud and is increasingly democratized as a shared resource across clouds and at the edge, practitioners have to bring Sec DevOps mindsets to securing their cloud data warehouses. Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon, "theCUBE Insights," powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis," we take a closer look at the fundamentals of securing Snowflake and to do so, we welcome two guests into the program. Ben Herzberg is an experienced hacker and developer and an expert in several aspects of data security. He's currently working as the Chief Data Scientist at Satori, and he's joined by his colleague, Yoav Cohen, who is a technology visionary, and currently serving as CTO at Satori Cyber. Gentlemen, welcome to "theCUBE," great to see you. >> Great to be here. >> Thanks for having us, Dave. >> Now, these two individuals have co-authored a book on Snowflake Security. It's a comprehensive guide to what you need to know as a data practitioner using Snowflake. So guys, congratulations on the book. It's really detailed, packed with great information, best practices and practical advice and insights all in one place, so really good work. So, before we get into the discussion, I want to share some ETR survey data just to set the context. We're seeing cybersecurity and data, they're colliding in a really important way. And here's some data points that we've shared before from ETR's latest drill down survey. They asked more than 1200 respondents. We're talking CIOs, CSOs and IT professionals, "Which organizational priorities "will be most important in 2022?" And these were the top seven. There were a lot of others, but these were the most important. So, it's no surprise that security is number one, although, as we shared in our predictions post, the magnitude of its relative importance, it does vary by the degree of expertise within the organization. The Delta is maybe not as significant, for example, in large companies, and you can see where analytics and data fit. And we've tied these two domains together and picked up on a term that our two guests have used, in fact, you guys may have even coined it, called DataSecOps, which, to me, is the idea that you bring Agile DevOps practices to data operations and built-in security as part of the full cycle of managing, creating the data, using the data, accessing the data, not a bolt on, but it's fundamental, so guys, what do you make of this data, and what's your point of view on DataSecOps? >> So, definitely aligns with what we're seeing on the ground in the market. In between what you saw there, you had cybersecurity and data warehousing. In the middle you had cloud migration, and that's basically what's pushing companies to invest in both security and data and warehousing, because the cloud changed the game for cybersecurity. The tools that we use before are not the same tools that we need to use now. And also, it unlocks a lot of performance value and capabilities around data warehousing. So, all of that comes together to a big trend in the industry for investment, for replacement, and definitely we're seeing that on the Snowflake platform, which is doing really, really well recently. >> Yeah, well thank you, Yoav. And to that point, I want to share another data point and then dive in, maybe Ben, you can comment. And I want to address, why are we always talking about Snowflake? Of course, it's a hot company. Everybody knows that. You can see it in the company's financials, but the ETR survey data tells a really compelling story about the company. Here's a chart from the most recent ETR January survey. And so, you can see at the, at the top, that blue line, it represents net score or spending momentum, and the darker line at the bottom represents presence or pervasiveness in the survey sample. Just a background, there are 165 Snowflake customers that responded to this past survey. 10% of companies within the Fortune 500 were in the sample, and around 4% of Global 2000 companies participated. Just under 30% of the respondents were C-Suite executives, and about 20% were analysts or engineers or data specialist with around half were VP, director, manager roles that fat middle, with a very broad mix of industries, and there was a bias toward larger companies. Now, back to the chart, that net score for a moment, is that top line, is derived by asking customers, "Are you adopting Snowflake new in 2022?" That's the 27% lime green number. "Will you be spending 6% or more on Snowflake, "relative to 2021?" That's the 57% forest green. "Is your spending flat?" That's the gray. "Is it down by 6% or worse?" That's the other, the pink area. "Are you leaving the platform?" That's the bright red, and that's a zero defection, so there's none there. So you subtract the reds from the greens, and you get net score, which calculates out to 83% in his pet survey. But what's remarkable is that Snowflake has held this elevated score for more than 12 quarterly surveys. It's in the stratosphere among the many thousands and thousands of companies in the ETR survey. Remember, anything above that 40% line is elevated and Snowflake is like glued to the ceiling. So the bottom line shows that the company's market presence continues to grow, that darker line at the bottom, and that green shade shows us that the pace of last quarter is actually accelerating. Snowflake is becoming ubiquitous, and customers are becoming intimately familiar with its platform, and it's scaling like we've never seen before, and it's building a pretty hard to penetrate fortress, we think, and an ecosystem. Ben, I wonder, in your view, what accounts for Snowflake's performance? >> Okay, so I would say that we can spend a full session just about such thing, so I'll try to say what I think. I think, first of all, it does what it says on the box. You get from zero to being able to have a data warehouse easily, you have a very rich support of capability and features that you need for a cloud data warehouse. Your multi-cloud, you're not dependent on one of the big public clouds, and it's fast and scalable, and you don't need to worry yourself with the infrastructure behind. You don't need to, God-forbid, add any indexes or do things like that. You don't need to do that, at least not often, indexes never, but other maintenance. And the innovation rate, they innovate fast. They add a lot of new capabilities, like the move to unstructured data, like a lot of security and governance capabilities, high innovation rate as well. >> Okay, good, and we'll talk about that move. So let's get deeper into the topic now on securing Snowflake. My first question is look, Snowflake, when you talk to practitioners and customers, they get pretty high marks on security, largely because of the simplicity, so why did you feel the need to write a book on the subject? >> So, definitely Snowflake is investing a lot of effort and putting a lot of emphasis on security. However, it's connected to the cloud service, and like any other cloud service, there is a shared responsibility model between Snowflake and its customers when it comes to fully securing their data cloud. So Snowflake can build amazing features, but then customers have to really adopt them, implement them in the best way. One of the things that we've seen by working with Snowflake customers is that we typically interact with data engineers, but then they have to implement security features and security capability. We thought writing a book about the topic would help these customers to understand the features better, benefit from them better and really structure their implementation and decide what's most important to implement at every step of their journey. >> Yeah, and I think that when I was researching this topic, I could find a lot of good information on the web, but I kind of had to hunt and peck for it. It was really sort of dispersed, and you put the information all in one place. You have a nice table of contents, so I can just zip right to where I want to go, so that was quite useful, I thought. What are the very basic fundamentals of securing Snowflake? In other words, I'm interested in, you get this world of flexible, it's globally distributed. You get democratizing data. How do you really make sure that only those folks that should have access, do have access? I mean really, let's talk about that a little bit. >> Oh, I think that, of course there are a lot of different aspects, but I think that I would start with the big blocks. For example, when you get a Snowflake account out of the box, it's open to the world in terms of network. I would start by limiting that. That should be easy for an organization. It's a couple of commands, and you've lowered your risk significantly, both security and compliance. Then, one of the common things that you can get a good improvement in a decrease of your risk is around those indications. For example, do you have applications that are accessing Snowflake using user password? Okay, change that to using a key. Do you have users with username, password? Change that to Okta integration or your IDP integration. So I would start with the big blocks that can remove most of my risk, and then of course, there is a lot to do from getting to the data warehouse and to auditing and monitoring. >> Okay, thank you for that. But, Yoav, how are these fundamentals that we just heard from Ben, how are they different? Isn't this kind of common sense? What's unique about Snowflake? >> So, a couple things, first of all, security, we love to say that it's 80% good security hygiene. You have to make sure that your basics are locked and tightly configured and that brings a lot of value. But two points to consider, first of all, all of these types of controls are pretty static in the sense that once you get in, you get in, and then you have pretty broad access, and we'll talk about authorization concepts and everything, perhaps today, but these are really static gatekeepers around your data. Once you have access, then it's really free for all. When you compare it to other types of environments and what we're seeing in other domains, maybe a move to more dynamic type of controls, elevated access or elevated additional authentication steps before you get elevated access. And what we're thinking is that beyond those static controls, the market is going to move towards implementing more dynamic, more fine-grain control, especially because in Snowflake, but any other data warehouse or large-scale data store, which becomes an aggregation point of data in the company, and we work with really big companies, and they bring in data from multiple jurisdiction from across the world, so they can get an overview of the business and run the business in a much more efficient way, but that really creates a pressure point when it comes to securing that data. >> Okay, Ben, you touched on this a little bit. I want to kind of dig deeper. So, Snowflake takes a layered approach, of course, it's sensible, and the layers, network, which talked about identity, access and encryption. and so, with any cloud, as you guys mentioned, it's a shared responsibility model. So I want to break that down a bit, and let's start with the network. So my responsibility, as a customer, I'm going to be responsible to set up the DNS. How much public internet access am I going to have for other users and apps. So how should practitioners think about their end of the bargain on the network? What do they need to know? >> At the network level, as I mentioned before, a new account is open network-wise, it's open to the world. And one of the first thing I would do would be to set a network policy on the account to limit network access to that account. And of course, in many organizations, you would want to configure that with private link to your cloud environment, but that would be step two. (laughs) First step is simply set the network policy to make sure that it's not open to the public. >> Yeah, and that seems pretty straightforward, but let's talk about identity, 'cause it feels like that's where it starts to get tricky. You got to worry about setting up roles and managing users. You could even configure row and column base access, as I understand it, and I imagine access is where it really gets confusing for a lot of people, especially when you're crossing domain identities. Like for example, isn't a role-based security, let's land on that for a minute, I think you called it hierarchy hell in the book, so what should we think about in regards to identity? >> Well, first of all, it's hierarchy hell, in the book, it says that you can use hierarchy, but you should avoid getting to a hierarchy hell. Basically, we've seen that with several Snowflake customers where the ability to set roles in a hierarchy model, to set a role that inherits privileges from another role, that inherits privileges from other roles and maybe, of course, used in a good way, but it also in some of the cases, it leads to complexities and to access not being deterministic, at least not obvious to the person who gives access, who is usually the data engineer. So, whenever you start having a complex authorization model, whenever I want to give Yoav access to a certain data set, and because things are complex, I also, by mistake, give him access to the salary information of the company, that's when things become tricky. If your roles are messy and complex, then it may lead to data exposure within the organization or outside the organization. >> How do you find Snowflake's integrations? Like if I want to use Okta or I want to use a CyberArk, I mean, how would you grade them on their ability to integrate with popular third party platforms? >> So, I would say pretty high, actually. We haven't encountered many customers who haven't configured any of these... nowadays, really basic security integration, and it really, really helps, setting that good identity management foundation for the platform. So they're investing a lot in that area, and we've been following them for a couple of years now, and it's really, really coming along nicely. >> All right, let's talk about encryption. I mean, that seemed pretty straightforward. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think Snowflake auto rotates the keys every 30 days. It really seems like your responsibility there is monitoring, making sure you're in compliance. You got good log data or access to good log data. Is that right? >> So, this really depends. So, for the average company, I would say, yes. For some of the companies with higher security requirements or compliance requirements or both, sometimes there are issues like companies that do not want to have the data stored in clear text, in Snowflake, even encrypted as in the data warehouse encryption or the account encryption, even if someone accidentally gets access to the table, they want them not to be able to pull the data in clear text, and then it gets slightly more complicated. You have different ways of tackling this, but for the average company or companies who do not have such requirements, then everything in Snowflake is encrypted in transit and addressed, and of course, there are more advanced features for higher requirements. >> Okay, I'm interested in what you guys think of some of the more vulnerable aspects that Snowflake customers should really be aware of. Imagine I'm saying, "Guys, let's run a pen test. "Okay, make sure I have no open chest wounds, "but really try to fool me." What would you attack? Where should I be extra cautious? >> So, I would start with where data resides. And, if you look at the Snowflake architecture, there's a separation between storage and compute, but that also means storage is accessible without going through the compute. That can create opportunities for hackers to go and try and find access where access shouldn't be had. That's where I would focus on. >> I want to ask you about Virtual Private Snowflake. It seems to me, if I have sensitive data, if I don't use Virtual Private Snowflake, I feel like I'm increasing my risk that a security incident at the shared cloud services layer could impact multiple customers, and is this a valid concern? How should we think about reducing that risk, and when should I use that higher level of security? >> So, I think first of all, to the best of my knowledge, I'm not a Snowflake employee, but to the best of my knowledge, Virtual Private Snowflake is used by a minority of the customers, a small minority of the customers. There are other more popular ways within Snowflake, like private link, for example, I would say, to enhance your security and your account segregation. But I wouldn't say that simply because the platform is multi-tenant, it is vulnerable. Of course, in many cases, your security or compliance requirements requires you to eliminate even this risk, but I wouldn't say that there are a lot of other platforms in different areas that are multi-tenant and-- >> And probably better than your on-prem, your average on-prem installation. >> Probably, probably. >> Okay, so I buy that. >> I would say on that, that maybe a shared environment is a higher value target for hackers. So if you're on a shared environment with thousands of other customers, if I'm a hacker, I would go there, 'cause then I get data for thousands of customers instead of try to focus on just one target and getting data for just one company. I think that's the most significant advantage. And obviously, Snowflake are investing a lot in making all of their environments very, very secure, and from our interactions with large Snowflake customers, we know that Snowflake are going above and beyond in making sure these environments are secure. >> Yeah, that's good, that's good news, because if I don't have to spend up, I can put the budget elsewhere. How do you guys think Snowflake's recent moves... They're making a couple of big moves. They've recently added unstructured data. They used to have semi-structured data. They're going after the data science and data lake functionality. Do those kinds of moves, I guess they're two different things, but does that change the way that security pros should think about protecting their Snowflake environment? >> I would say that Snowflake is moving fast with adding new functionality, well fast, but not too fast. They're releasing it in a controlled way. I would say that for new capabilities, of course, in some cases there are new attack vectors or new risks and obviously, securing different types of data may bring new challenges, but the basics, I think, remains the same. The basics of the network, identity authentication, authorization and auditing monitoring. I would say they will be the same and perhaps new features or capability will need to be used. And the largest issue, as data democratization is growing within organizations, and more and more people are using your data cloud, that also needs to be addressed. >> All right, finally, I want to end, I want to talk a little bit about futures. Have you guys talked in your book about multi-cloud as a way to reduce your reliance on a single vendor? And of course, it happens through M and A, and that's cool. We've talked a lot about multi-cloud, and we've been using this term that we coined, called supercloud, and it references an abstraction layer that exists on top of, and floats across, if you will, multiple clouds, and it hides some of that underlying complexity, and we feel like Snowflake is a good example of a company that's moving in that direction, building value on top of all that hyperscale infrastructure. So I wonder how you see Snowflake's moves in that direction would impact the way you think about DataSecOps. >> So definitely, we also see the trend of companies adopting more and more types of cloud and cloud technologies. They're in one cloud today. They want to move to a second one, almost every company that I talk to have, nowadays, a multi-cloud strategy. With respect to Snowflake, they basically have it figured out, because they are an overlay, like a supercloud, super data cloud, that is spread across any cloud, and you can basically pick and choose where you want to put your data for what use cases, and that's really, really helpful, because then you don't have to manage the complexity of multiple solutions for multiple areas of the business. We see this also in other areas where companies are saying, "Hey, I prefer to not use a specific cloud technology "for that purpose, but use a vendor that can cover my needs "across the clouds," definitely on the security side, where they want one throat to choke, so to speak, but they want to control things on a central place. As Ben mentioned before, complexity is the enemy of security and having those multi-cloud operations, from a security perspective, definitely adds complexity, which adds risks, so simplifying that is really, really helpful. >> Hey, thank you for that, and thank you guys for coming on today. Why don't you give us a little bumper sticker on Satori. What do you guys do? Give us the quick commercial. >> So, we help companies secure access to their data on platforms like Snowflake and others. We build really innovative technology that decouples security controls from the actual data layer. So if you think about it, where you can put controls to govern how people access data. You can put it inside the database. You can put it somewhere on the client. We've actually invented a technology that can do that in the middle, so you don't have to coalesce and mix your security concerns with your data. You don't have to go to your clients' users' end-points, laptops and put technology there. We set technology that fits in the middle, that decouples that aspect of your DataSecOps operations, and really helps companies implement those security controls much faster, because it's detached from the rest of their operation. >> Nice thought, leaning into that simplicity trend that you talked about. Okay guys, that's all the time we have today. Really, I want to thank Ben and Yoav for coming on "theCUBE." It was really great to have you. I'd love to welcome you back at some point. >> Thank you, Dave. >> Thank you, it was a pleasure >> All right, remember these episodes, these episodes are all available as podcasts, wherever you listen. All you got to do is search breaking analysis podcasts. Check out ETR's website at ETI.ai. We also publish full report every week on Wikibon.com and SiliconAngle.com. You can get in touch with me. Email me, David.Vellante@SiliconANGLE.com @DVellante or comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for "theCUBE Insights," powered by ETR. Have a great week, stay safe, be well, and we'll see you next time. (bright music)

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE at ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante >> As we've reported extensively, the pandemic has affected cybersecurity markets perhaps more than any other. Remote work has caused CISOs, chief information security officers to shift spending priorities toward identity access management endpoint and cloud security. COVID has been a benefactor for next gen security companies that participate in these sectors. Notably, we believe tactical responses to the coronavirus have resulted in productivity improvements that will create permanent change in the way organizations defend themselves against cyber threats. Hello everyone and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we'll provide you with our quarterly update of the cybersecurity space and share fresh ETR data on the market. We also have some results from Eric Bradley's most recent Venn round table conducted with three senior chief information security officers. Let's start by looking at this notion of a single pane of glass. Now, despite the aspiration, there is no silver bullet to protect organizations from cyber attacks. The complexities of security, they're enormous and they require a layered defense approach. They range from securing internal networks to end points, to DMZ subnets, external traffic security, data in motion, data at rest, protecting from ransomware, dealing with web traffic, emails, phishing, not to mention threats from internal employees and contractors. As we mentioned at the open, there are three areas in particular that have seen significantly elevated spending momentum that is translated into the valuation increases for several companies, including CrowdStrike, Okta, Zscaler and several others. Zero trust security has gone from buzzword to reality. And spending shifts to these technologies have siphoned off demand from traditional hardware based firewalls. Although CISOs seem to be hedging their bets, at some point, they realized that people are actually going to come back to the office, so they have to remain agile. Lack of talent. Well, that remains one of the CISOs biggest challenges to securing applications and data. And automation while sometimes viewed as risky, is becoming increasingly important. Several companies have hit our radar this quarter and were highlighted in the CISO Panel, including Elastic which has seen momentum as an open source alternative to Splunk and notably multiple CIOs in the panel, they cited concerns related to Splunk's pricing and their sales tactics. They actually compared those of Splunk to those of EMC in the past, if anybody remembers how aggressive EMC salespeople could be. CloudFlare also broke into the top 10 in the ETR survey based on net score which is a measure of spending momentum. And that was for those companies with more than 50 mentions in the survey. CloudFlare is a CDN and provides security for websites. Also Netskope, a cloud security specialist cracked the top 10 in terms of net score and received high marks from the CISO panel, particularly with respect to it's vision and roadmap. Microsoft, Palo Alto Networks, Okta, CrowdStrike Cisco, CyberArk, SailPoint, Zscaler and Proofpoint remain focus vendors for us in the ETR survey as measured by spending momentum and their presence in the data set, what we call market share. And we'll talk more about those companies in a moment. Now finally, even CISOs that were skeptical about the permanence of the effects of COVID, they're seeing business benefits that suggest many of these shifts are circular, and not cyclical. Indeed, prior to the pandemic, ETR survey data showed that about 16% of organizations workers were primarily remote. CIOs expect that number to more than double post pandemic to 34%. Let's say you look at some of the cybersecurity vendors. We'll plot some, we don't have enough room to plot all of them, there are so many. But this chart shows one of our favorite XY views. On the Y axis, we measure net score. And that measures against spending velocity by looking at the net percentage of customers that are spending more versus those that are spending less within the ETR survey. The X axis measures market share or pervasiveness in the survey. Now we've included a select list of companies for this view and only include those with more than 50 responses, or 50 Ns, shared Ns, if you will, in the data set. In the upper right, you can see a table that shows the data sorted by both net score and shared Ns for each vendor. Now, as we indicated, Elastic has taken the top spot, just barely edging out Okta who took over from CrowdStrike in the last survey. And you can see the significant market presence of Palo Alto and Splunk and the most pervasive vendor here is Cisco. Note that Cisco also owns Umbrella and Duo which both have meaningful Ns in the survey. Now, if we were to combine these into one view, a single view of Cisco, all three of those, it would pull the company even further up into the right. Security is one of the bright spots in Cisco's portfolio and shows consistent year-on-year growth each quarter. Now having said that, some CISOs complained that Cisco's propensity to rely on acquisitions to fill gaps has caused them integration challenges in the past. Let's go back to Palo Alto for a moment. We'll make some comments later regarding their position relative to Fortinet, but we wanted to call them out here. Look, CISOs, they really liked Palo Alto. They trust the Palo Alto Networks. They consider Palo Alto as a trusted leader with a very strong portfolio and vision. Now let's turn our attention to the pack here, as we mentioned, Okta's momentum is notably elevated and it's meaningfully higher than the others. Its presence continues to increase up to the right, as does CrowdStrike's, or to the right, not necessarily up to the right, but to the right. But CrowdStrike has come off its net score high, so it's coming down actually in the vertical axis. And we're not super concerned about that because they're dramatically increasing their presence on the X axis each survey. But so is Okta, so that's something to watch. In other words, CrowdStrike's coming down in net score while it's increasing its presence, Okta is holding its net score while at the same time increasing its presence, which is really a strong sign. Now that they compete, they don't compete against each other directly, but it's they're still in the same sector. We've also included Carbon Black here because because of their VMware acquisition and VMware CEO, Pat Gelsinger, he's on a mission to fix security and the company has made a number of moves in cyber. VMware has a really good track record could of execution and while fixing Curity is highly aspirational. With its install base and history of success, we wanted to include them here because they're getting more attention of the CISOs in the ETR panel. So we're keeping an eye on VMware and Carbon Black. It's going to take some time, but we'll keep watching them. Now let's take a look at how the players have moved this year over the quarters. We're going to show you four tables here and we're going to compare the net scores and market share of the cyber companies for January, April, July, and October surveys. So pre-COVID and throughout the year. So let's look first at the pre-COVID positions. The left most chart is sorted by net score or spending momentum and the right most chart is the shared Ns, which is the number of mentions in the survey, which is what drives the horizontal axis that I showed you earlier. Now, when you go back to the January survey, you see CrowdStrike was already doing very well with an elevated net score of 68.3% and 123 mentions. By the way, please ignore those companies with less than 50 Ns, I didn't filter the data back then. I was kind of still learning how to use the ETR software platform. Okta was also elevated and you can see the others there as well. Now, last year, we came up with a method to assign stars to those companies that had both top net scores and large shared Ns in the survey. So spending momentum and strong market share. And you can see Microsoft, Splunk, Palo Alto Networks, Proofpoint, CrowdStrike, Zscaler and CyberArk made the cut and all received four stars. And we gave two stars to Cisco and Fortinet because they had strong net scores and very high presence in the survey. Now let's go forward and look at April when the lockdown was in full swing. Okay, so we tightened things up in April and on the presentation of the survey did and only included those companies with more than 50N. And we cut the top 10, that's the red line and we put in their Dell EMC which is RSA and IBM for context. And you can see CrowdStrike, they shot to the top with a 68% net score and increased it's shared N, and you can see the stars right. Now, let's just jump ahead to the July survey. So now we're well into the pandemic. Maybe things are calming down a little bit in the summer. People feeling a little bit more freedom, maybe not as concerned about the work-from-home peace, that's sort of settling in, and CISOs, they had a little time to respond here and that's kind of the picture in the summer. Okta jumped way up on the left, you see in spending momentum and CrowdStrike, they moderated a bit, although they remained elevated. And again, they're not direct competitors, but it's instructive to compare these two firms, 'cause they're both hot and growing. And you see the green lines, they show the direction of the momentum of the net score. CrowdStrike was a bit of a concern because its net score dropped and its presence in the dataset kind of moderated. But the company continued to report strong revenue during its earnings calls and the stock remain a darling. So some mixed signals in the data, one quarter doesn't necessarily make a trend. But Okta, Microsoft, Cisco, Palo Alto, Splunk and several others, they remained very, very strong. Now let's go into the most recent October survey. So again, we continue to fine tune our presentation analysis here. And you can see there are two red lines. The top one is the top 10 cutoff. And the second line is the top 20. As we said, Elastic hit the radar for net score but still not pervasive enough in the dataset on the right to earn some stars with the shared Ns. So Okta in our view continues to hold that top spot for momentum and made the top 10 cut for shared N, two very positive signs. It's shared N, for example, jumped from 139 to 185. So more and more mentions, people are increasingly relying on Okta for identity access management. Now for the green arrows here, the momentum lines, we've tried to take into consideration the shared N. So even though, for example CrowdStrike's net score dropped from 50 down to 43%, it's shared N, or again, the number of mentions, it jumped from 119 to 162. So that's a 36% increase and you might be thinking, well, why is that significant? Well, CIOs and IT buyers in the ETR survey, they're asked to choose the areas with which they are most familiar and then they answer questions on which vendors they use. So the fact that companies like Okta and Palo Alto and CrowdStrike and several others that we've highlighted are increasing their presence in the data set and still maintaining a very strong net score is a really good signal in our view. That's why, for example, take Zscaler, we still give them two stars, even though on a relative basis, it didn't make the top 10 cut. It's net score held relatively firm and it's shared N jumped by 39%. So we continue to like names like Zscaler, Okta, CrowdStrike, CyberArk, Proofpoint Fortinet and of course Microsoft, which consistently shines brightly. Let's look at a comment that underscores the CISOs sentiment and I think the market overall. Here's a comment from a CISO of a global travel and hospitality company. It's a name you would recognize and obviously this individual's business was hit hard by the pandemic. So there's an inherent bias toward hope anyway, toward a return to the normal. But look at the comment, I'll read it. "I was a skeptic on the permanence of the changes due to COVID, but I've seen firsthand, there are legitimate structural changes that are taking place, and that's going to fundamentally shift where companies are investing in cyber. Building leases are expiring, people, they're productive working from home. Products that enable work from home and that are cloud first, that trend will continue and be permanent." And you know what? We agree. Okay, here's a chart that we've been updating since right before the pandemic and it compares the performance of the S & P 500 and Nasdaq with specific security companies that are public. And we've been tracking the revenue multiples on a trailing 12 month revenue basis over time to get a sense of how these companies compare. And we prefer to use forward looking revenue, but find TTM to be more consistent and frankly easier to access quickly. So that's what we're using. Now note that Splunk, Octa, CrowdStrike and Zscaler, those are the guys I've highlighted in red, they have yet to report as of this publication. A couple of points here are worth noting. First, we've been talking a lot about the divergence in valuation between Palo Alto and Fortinet and we'll show some more data on that in a moment but we want to share some CISO comments about Fortinet. People sometimes refer to Fortinet as Forti knife, as in Swiss army knife. They're a Swiss army knife of cyber, Forti everything is what one CISO called it. Fortinet is more price attractive, especially for mid-sized companies who don't have the resources of larger firms that might gravitate toward Palo Alto Networks. And the companies around for awhile and has earned the trust of CISOs because of their portfolio and their track record. Now, the other notable item in this data is the rise in value for Okta, CrowdStrike and Zscaler which have seen values increase 78%, 128%, 124% respectively in the time period we show here. You can see the very highly elevated revenue multiples compared to some of the more mature companies. Splunk, they're a bit of an outlier here 'cause we're showing negative growth in that right-hand column. And that's because of its transition toward a subscription model. That really messes up the income statement. And we just wanted to cite that. Splunk's been doing a good job communicating to the street. There are some concerns in the ETR dataset, which we've talked about. They've sort of moderated lately. There's also concerns about pricing that CISOs have mentioned, but generally there's a real bifurcation in the market in terms of valuations. And we think that while there's a lot of discussion about the so-called stay-at-home stocks and a shift back away from those when the pandemic subsides, we believe that the productivity benefits of remote work are becoming more clear and these next gen security companies are going to continue to thrive. Now let's take a moment to look at the relative performance of Palo Alto and Fortinet. Back in February of this year, we noted that there was a valuation divergence occurring between these two companies. And we cited three factors at the time for this gap. First, we said the Palo Alto was trying to cloud proof its business, and as such, it was in transition. And second, it had some challenges with regard to the pace of that transition, including sales incentives, actually that's part of the first point. That was kind of one A. Secondly, we said that the shift away from appliance-based firewalls was accelerating and that was pressuring Palo Alto's valuation. They were kind of underperforming in that segment. And finally we said the Palo Alto was facing some very tough compares in 2019 relative to 2018. And that was causing investors to pause as Palo Alto began shifting to an annual recurring revenue model. Now we said at the time that CISOs really, they really liked Palo Alto and we felt it would... the company would deal with these issues in 2020. And this chart really shows that and they've begun to reverse this trend. The yellow line is Fortinet. The blue line is Palo Alto and it's showing this sort of relative performance here. And you can see that gap coming into 2020 which extended into the meat of 2020. But now it's starting to compress, thanks to a nice earnings report that beat EPS on revenue this month, as we're talking about Palo Alto. So we continue to believe that Fortinet has done a good job and a better job of moving to the cloud model. And Palo Alto has largely relied on acquisitions to accelerate this trend. And we'll see if they can continue to thrive during this transition to cloud. But there's little doubt that CISOs want to work with Palo Alto networks and they remain committed to having a strategic relationship with the company. Alright, let's wrap. The shift to the subscription model is well underway in the cybersecurity space and it's buoyed by cloud and next generation SAS-based security players. Splunk is in transition. Cisco and Palo Alto emphasize the importance of this trend and virtually all historically on-prem players are being forced to respond. Survey data and anecdotal information from theCUBE community supports what the ETR Venn CISOs are saying, that the internet is becoming the new private network and these trends toward cloud-based and remote worker support are delivering benefits that CEOs and CFOs are going to continue to push to operationalize. CISOs, they got to continue to take a multi-layered approach to defending their data, their applications and their users. And it's such a fragmented market with specialists is going to continue for quite some time. Now, despite these clear trends, CISOs face a real challenge, the timing of the return to semi normal, it's really uncertain. And we still don't have a clear picture of what that future will look like. As such incumbent firms with hardened networks, they're going to have to remain in a hybrid holding pattern to accommodate whatever happens. Why is that important? Well, this means that budgets are going to be stretched. Look, while security remains a top priority, you can't expect an open checkbook going to SecOps team. Throwing money at the problem wouldn't really solve it anyway. Rather CISOs have to take a balanced portfolio of investments, continuing with automation and data analytics and of course, good security practice practices. That's going to be the pattern. Alright, well, thanks everyone for watching this episode of theCUBE insights powered by ETR. There are many ways to get in touch. @dvellante on Twitter, david.vellante@siliconangle.com. You can comment on my LinkedIn posts. I publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and always appreciate the feedback from our community. These episodes, by the way, are all available as podcasts. So you can listen while you multitask and don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey action. This is Dave Vellante. Have a great Thanksgiving, be smart, stay safe and we'll see you next time. (light melodic music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with coverage of Coop Con and Cloud, Native Con Europe 2020 Virtual brought to You by Red Hat, The Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem Partners. Hi, I'm stupid, man. And this is the Cube's coverage of Cube con Cloud Native Con Europe event, which, of course, this year has gone virtual, really lets us be able to talk to those guests where they are around the globe. Really happy to welcome back to the program. Liz Rice. First of all, she is the vice president of Open Source Engineering at Aqua Security. She's also the chair of the Technical Oversight Committee has part of Ah CN cf. Liz, it is great to see you. Unfortunately, it's remote, but ah, great to catch up with you. Thanks for joining. >>Yeah, Thanks for having me. Nice to see you if you know across the ocean. >>So, uh, you know, one of the one of the big things? Of course, for the Cube Con show. It's the rallying point for the community. There are so many people participating. One of the things we always love to highlight its not only the the vendor ecosystem. But there is a very robust, engaged community of end users that participate in it. And as I mentioned, you're the chair of that technology oversight committee. So maybe just give our audience a little bit of, you know, in case they're not familiar with the TOC does. And let's talk about the latest pieces there. >>Yes, say the TOC is really hit. C can qualify the different projects that want to join the CNC F. So we're assessing whether or not they're cloud native. We're assessing whether they could joined at sandbox or incubation or graduation levels. Which of the different maturity levels that we have for for project within the CN CF yeah, we're really there, Teoh also provide it steering around the What does cloud native mean and what does it mean to be a project inside the CN CF community? We're also a voice for all of the projects. We're not the only voice, but, you know, part >>of our role >>really is to make sure the projects are getting what they need in order to be successful. So it's it's really around the technology and the projects that we call cloud native >>Yeah, and and obliges Cloud Native because when people first heard of the show, of course, Kubernetes and Cube Con was the big discussion point. But as you said, Cloud native, there's a lot of projects there. I just glanced at the sandbox page and I think there's over 30 in the sandbox category on and you know they move along their process until they're, you know, fully mature and reach that, you know, 1.0 state, which is the stamp of approval that, you know, this could be used in production. I understand there's been some updates for the sandbox process, so help us understand you know where that is and what's the new piece of that? >>Yeah. So it's really been because of the growth off cloud native in general, the popularity off the CN CF and so much innovation happening in our space. So there's been so many projects who want Teoh become hard off the CNC f family on and we used to have a sponsorship model where members of the TOC would essentially back projects that they wanted to see joining at the sandbox level. But we ran into a number of issues with that process on and also dealing with the scale, the number of applications that have come in. So we've revamped the process. We made it much easier for projects to apply as much simpler form where really not making so much judgment we're really saying is it's a cloud native project and we have some requirements in terms off some governance features that we need from a project. And it's worth mentioning that when a project joins the CN CF, they are donating the intellectual property and the trademark off that project into the foundation. So it's not something that people should take lightly. But we have tried to make it easier and therefore much smoother. We're able Teoh assess the applications much more quickly, which I think everyone, the community, the projects, those of us on the TOC We're all pretty happy that we can make that a much faster process. >>Yeah, I actually, it brings up An interesting point is so you know, I've got a little bit of background in standards committees. A swell as I've been involved in open source for a couple of decades now some people don't understand. You know, when you talk about bringing a project under a foundation. You talked about things like trademarks and the like. There are more than one foundation out there for CN CF Falls under the Linux Foundation. Google, of course, brought Kubernetes in fully to be supported. There's been some rumblings I've heard for the last couple of years about SDO and K Native and I know about a month before the show there was some changes along SDO and what Google was doing there may be without trying to pass too many judgments in getting into some of the political arguments, help us understand. You know what Google did and you know where that kind of comparison the projects that sit in the CN cf themselves. >>Yeah, So I e I guess two years ago around two years ago, Stu was very much the new kid in the cloud native block. So much excitement about the project. And it was actually when I was a program co chair that we had a lot of talks about sdo at Cube Con cloud native bomb, particularly in Copenhagen, I'm recalling. And, uh, I think everyone I just saw a natural fit between that project on the CN, CF and There was an assumption from a lot of people across the community that it would eventually become part of the CNC f. That was it's natural home. And one of the things that we saw in recent weeks was a very clear statement from IBM, who were one off the Uh huh, yeah, big contributing companies towards that project that that was also their expectation. They were very much under the impression that Stu would be donated to the CN CF at an appropriate point of maturity, and unfortunately, that didn't happen. From my point of view, I think that has sown a lot of confusion amongst the community because we've seen so much. It's very much a project of fits. Service mesh designed to work with kubernetes is it really does. You're fit naturally in with the other CN CF projects. So it's created confusion for end users who, many of whom assume that it was called the CN CF, and that it has the neutral governance that the other projects. It's part of the requirements that we have on those projects. They have to have an open governance that they're not controlled by a single vendor, Uh, and we've seen that you know that confusion, Andi. Frustration around that confusion being expressed by more and more end users as well as other people across the community. And yeah, the door is still open, you know, we would still love to see SDO join the community. Clearly there are different opinions within the SD wan maintainers. I will have to see what happens. >>Yeah, lets you bring up some really good points. You know, absolutely some of some of that confusion out there. Absolutely. I've heard from customers that if they're making a decision point, they might say, Hey, maybe I'm not going to go down that maybe choose something else because I'm concerned about that. Um, you know, I sdo front and center k native, another project currently under Google that has, you know, a number of other big vendors in the community that aiding in that So hopefully we will see some progress on that, you know, going forward. But, you know, back to you talked about, You know, the TOC doesn't make judgements as to you know which project and how they are. One of the really nice things out there in the CN CF, it's like the landscape just for you to help, understand? Okay, here's all of these projects. Here's the different categories they fit in. Here is where they are along that maturity. There's another tool that I read. Cheryl Hung blogged about the technology radar. I believe for continuous delivery is the first technology radar. Help us understand how that is, you know, not telling customers what to do but giving them a little guidance that you know where some of these projects projects fit. In a certain segment, >>Yeah, the technology radar is a really great initiative. I'm really excited about it because we have increasing numbers or end users who are using these different projects it both inside the CN CF and projects that are outside of the CNC F family. Your end users are building stacks. They're solving real problems in the real world and with the technology radar. What Cheryl's been able to facilitate is having the end you to the end user community share with us. What tools? They're actually using what they actually believe are the right hammers for specific nails. And, you know, it's it's one thing for us as it's more on the developer or vendor side Teoh look at different projects and say what we think are the better solutions for solving different problems. Actually hearing from the horse's mouth from the end users who are doing it in the real world is super valuable. And I think that is a really useful input to help us understand. What are the problems that the end user is still a challenge by what are the gaps that we still need to fail more input we can get from the end user community, the more will be solving real problems and no necessarily academic problems that we haven't sorry discovered in >>the real world. Alright, well is, you know, teeing up a discussion about challenges that users still have in the world. If we go to your primary jobs, Main hat is you live in the security world and you know, we know security is still something, you know, front and center. It is something that has never done lots of discussion about the shared responsibility model and how cloud native in security fit together and all that. So maybe I know there's some new projects there, but love to just give me a snap shot as where we are in the security space. As I said, Overall, it's been, you know, super important topic for years. This year, with a global pandemic going on, security seems to be raised even more. We've seen a couple of acquisitions in the space, of course. Aqua Security helping customers along their security journey. So what do you seeing out there in the marketplace today and hear from your custom? >>Yeah, I Every business this year has, you know, look at what's going on and you know, it's been crazy time for everyone, but we've been pleasantly surprised at how, you know, in relative terms, our business has been able to. It's been strong, you know. And I think you know what you're touching on the fact that people are working remotely. People are doing so many things online. Security is evermore online. Cloud security's evermore part off what people need to pay attention to. We're doing more and more business online. So, actually, for those of us in the security business, it has bean, you know that there have been some silver linings to this this pandemic cloud? Um, yes. So many times in technology. The open source projects and in particularly defaults in kubernetes. Things are improving its long Bina thing that I've you know, I wished for and talked about that. You know, some of the default settings has always been the most secure they could be. We've seen a lot of improvements over the last 23 years we're seeing continuing to see innovation in the open source world as well as you know, on the commercial side and products that vendors like Akwa, you know, we continue to innovate, continue to write you ways for customers to validate that the application workloads that they're going to run are going to run securely in the cloud. >>Alright and lives. There's a new project that I know. Ah, you know, you Aqua are participating in Tell us a little bit about Starbird. You know what's what's the problem? It's helping solve and you know where that budget >>Yes, So stockholders, one of our open source initiatives coming out of my team are equal on, and the idea is to take security reporting information and turn it into a kubernetes native, uh, resources custom resources. And then that means the security information, your current security status could be queried over the kubernetes AP I, as you're querying the status or the deployment, say you can also be clearing to see whether it's passing configuration audits or it's passing vulnerability scans for the application containers inside that deployment. So that information is available through the same AP eyes through the queue control interface through dashboards like Octane, which is a nice dashboard viewer for kubernetes. And starboard brings security information not just from acquittals but from other vendor tools as well front and center into that kubernetes experience. So I'm really excited about Star Border. It's gonna be a great way of getting security visibility, Teoh more kubernetes use it >>all right. And we were talking earlier about just the maturity of projects and how they get into the sandbox. Is is this still pretty sandbox for >>this? OK, we're still very much in the early phases and you know it. I think in the open source world, we have the ability to share what we're doing early so that we can get feedback. We can see how it resonates with with real users. We've had some great feedback from partners that we've worked with and some actual customers who actually collaborated with When we're going through the initial design, some great feedback. There's still lots of work to do. But, yeah, the initial feedback has been really positive. >>Yeah, is usually the event is one of those places where you can help try toe, recruit some other people that might have tools as well as educate customers about what's going on. So is that part of the call to action on this is, you know, what are you looking for for kind of the rest of 2020 when it when it comes to this project? >>Yeah, absolutely. So internally, we're working on an operator which will automate some of the work that's double does in the background in terms off getting more collaboration. We would love to see integrations from or security tooling. We're talking with some people across the community about the resource definition, so we've come up with some custom resource definitions, but we'd love them to be applicable it to a variety of different tools. So we want to get feedback on on those definitions of people are interested in collaborating on that absolutely do come and talk to me and my team are reluctant. >>Great. Listen, and I'll give you the final word. Obviously, we're getting the community together while we're part So you know any other you know, engagement opportunities, you get togethers. Things that you want people to know about the European show this year. >>Well, it's gonna be really you know, I'm on tenterhooks to see whether or not we can recreate the same atmosphere as we would have in Q con. I mean, it won't be exactly the same, but I really hope that people will engage online. Do come and, you know, ask questions of the speakers. Come and talk to the vendors, get into slack channels with the community. You know, this is an opportunity to pretend we're in the same room. Let's let's let's do what we can Teoh recreate as close as we can. That community experience that you keep corn is famous for >>Yeah, absolutely. That whole way track is something that is super challenging to recreate. And there's no way that I am getting the Indonesian food that I was so looking forward to in Amsterdam just such a great culinary and cultural city. So hopefully sometime in the future will be able to be back there. Liz Rice. Always pleasure catching up with you. Thanks so much for all the work you're doing on the TOC. And always a pleasure talking to you. >>Thanks for having me. >>All right, Lots more coverage from Cube Con Cloud, Native con the European 2020 show, Of course. Virtual I'm stew minimum. And thank you for watching the Cube. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Music] from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston it's the cube covering the IBM thing brought to you by IBM hello everybody this is state velocity of the cube and you're watching our wall-to-wall coverage of the IBM think digital experience at Justin Youngblood is here he's the vice president of IBM security Justin good to see you again thanks for coming on hey Dave good to be here thank you so look let's get right into it I mean we're here remote I wish we were you know for face-to-face and in Moscow II but things have changed dramatically there's a massive shift to work from home that's you know obviously kovat 19 has tightened the need for security but let's start with some of the things that you're seeing how you're responding the to secure those remote workers and let's get into some of the trends that you're seeing in the security space yeah absolutely some major trends and there is a big response around Cove at night 19 right now and and first of all you know what we tell all of our employees our clients our partners the entire ecosystem is number one priority stay safe and healthy of course even at IBM right now we have over 95% of IBM erse who are working from home we've seen that trend across our clients and partners as well and basically three themes keep popping up as it relates to security in Kovan 19 the first is clients are asking us to help them secure their remote workforce we have a number of tools technologies and services to help them do that the second is detecting and responding to accelerating threats amidst Cova 19 the threat actors are more active than ever they're driving some targeted attacks and phishing campaigns and our clients are asking us for help on that front and then the third is virtually extending security teams and operations and we've got a set of services managed services and and remote employees who can actually work with our clients and help them with their security operation centers and anything they need from a security program yeah I mean when you talk to CISOs they'll tell you look we you know our biggest problem is a lack of talent and we have all these fragmented tools and then now you throw kovat 19 at them and it's okay now overnight blank and secure the remote workforce so talk a little bit about this notion of platforms I've said often the security marketplace is very fragmented that accentuates the skills issue is you got to learn all these different tools and this is integration issues talk about platforms and how that might help solve this problem absolutely security platforms are on the rise do you see a lot of security platforms being announced by vendors today the problem statements are very clear oh as enterprises have moved along on their journey to cloud and digital transformation they now have workloads applications data users spread across multiple cloud environments every enterprise is using multiple clouds today so the problem statements become very clear for security security leaders have too many security tools they have too much data and they don't have enough people right so too many security tools that lack interoperability the average Enterprise has anywhere from 50 to 80 different security point products that don't talk to each other but trying to solve a security problem to pinpoint an issue actually takes looking at multiple screens too much data that comes without insights trying to stitch together all of this disparate data across a fragmented security landscape is very complex and it allows threats to be missed and then not enough people the shortage in cybersecurity is well documented over 2 million unfilled jobs today and that number continues to grow so enter security platforms that are that are on the value proposition of cleaning up this mess in November last year we announced the cloud pack for security that's IBM security platform and it has some some attributes that are powerful compelling we're seeing a lot of traction with client well you mentioned two things that really caught my attention the detection and the response because you know you're gonna get infiltrated everybody gets infiltrated and you know you've seen the stats it takes you know whatever 250 300 days before you can even detect it and then and then responses is critical so so talk about the cloud pack for security you know there are other platforms out there what makes yours different yeah are basically traditional security is broken we have a vision of modern security at centers on the cloud pack for security we set out two years ago with the concept of a next-generation platform it's a security control plane that works across hybrid multi cloud environments it connects all your security data and tools with a common platform that includes IBM and security tools and cloud platforms so whether you're using a sim like Q radar or Splunk endpoint detection systems like carbon black or CrowdStrike and any of the IBM any of the cloud platforms including IBM AWS or Azure it connects all of those and brings the insights together we work with over 50 enterprises and service providers help us co-create this solution and the attributes are its multi cloud capable but for security is multi cloud capable it can bring all the insights together from across these hybrid multi cloud environment it's open it's built and based on open standards and open technologies it's simple and it's composable in the sense that it has the ability to integrate with IBM and third-party technologies and add more capabilities over time what we see from other security platforms in the industry is they they basically approached the problem saying mr. customer bring all your data to our cloud will run the analytics on it and then provide you the insights what's different with cloud pack for security is we take the analytics to the data customers don't need to move their data from all the disparate sources where it exists we take the analytics to the data and bring those insights back to a common console or the or the security leaders and security analysts to take action on why you preaching to the choir now because well first of all you've got the the integration matrix and you've got the resources obviously I mean you mentioned a couple of really prominent and you know some hot products right now and this is the challenge right best to breathe versus fully integrated suite and what you're saying if I understand it correctly is we're not asking you to make that trade-off if you want to use you know of some tool go for it we're gonna integrate with that and give you the control and then the second piece is bringing that analytics capability to the data cuz that's the other thing you really don't want to move your data you the Einstein written move as much data as you have to but no more right absolutely this is a this is a team sport security is a team sport and that's where open technologies are so important the ability with an open API to integrate with any IBM or third-party technology this is not a rip and replace strategy clients can't afford to do that they want to work within their existing security tools but they need a common platform for bring it all together so we talked about the ability to gain complete insights across your hybrid multi cloud environment the ability to act faster with a set of playbooks and automation that basically runs security run books once a once an incident is detected to automatically go about about the fix and then third is the ability to run anywhere cloud pack for security like all of the IBM cloud packs is built on kubernetes and Red Hat openshift so it can be deployed on-premise or on the public cloud of the customers choosing complete choice and flexibility in that deployment I mean another key point you just made is automation and you talked earlier about that skills gap and the unfilled jobs automation is really the way certainly a way and probably a the most important way to close that gap I want to ask you about open could you think about you know security and networks and you know opens almost antithetical to secure I want close but you mean open in a different context and what if we could talk about that and maybe break down the key aspects of open as you defined it we've seen open technologies open standards open source be adopted across technology domains think of operating systems and Linux think of application development think of the management domain and kubernetes which now has a community of over 4,000 developers behind it it's more than any single vendor could put behind it so it's so open technologies really provide a force multiplier for any any industry security has been a laggard in adopting open standards and open source code so last year 2019 October time frame IBM partnered with McAfee and dozens of other vendors and launching the open Cyber Security Alliance focused on open standards that promote interoperability across security tools focused on open source code which we've adopted into an underpin the cloud pack I beams cloth pack for security focused on threat intelligence and analytics and ultimately sharing best practices and let me talk about run books this really comes down to the automated play books that customers need to run in response to a security threat or incident that's become really important automating actions to help security operations teams be more productive so all of those capabilities in total sum up what we're talking about with open technology for security and it underpins our IBM cloud pack for security solution well I've always felt that Open was part of the answer and like you said the industry was slowly to adopt adversary is highly capable he-she they're very well-funded do you think our industry is ready for this open approach we're absolutely ready for the open approach we see customers responding extremely positively to the cloud pack for security and the fact that it is built on open technologies many enterprises come to us and say they want that future proofing of their investments they want to know that what they purchased will interoperate with their existing environments without a rip rip and replace and the only way to get there is through open standards and open technology so it's it's already being well received and we're gonna see it grow just like it has any other technology domains operating systems application development management etc now is the time for security while Justin you're operating in one of the most important aspects of the IT value chain thank you for keeping us safe stay safe down there in Austin and thanks for coming on the queue thank you Dave good to be here take care and thank you for watching everybody watching the cubes coverage of IBM sync 2020 ibm's digital production keep it right there we're right back right after this short break [Music] you

ladies and gentlemen this is your captain speaking we will soon be taking off on our way to altitude please keep your seatbelts fastened and remain in your seats we will be experiencing turbulence until we are above the clouds ladies and gentlemen we are now cruising at altitude sit back and enjoy the ride [Music] altitude is a community of thought leaders and pioneers cloud architects and enlightened network engineers who have individually and are now collectively leading their own IT teams and the industry on a path to lift cloud networking above the clouds empowering Enterprise IT to architect design and control their own cloud network regardless of the turbulent clouds beneath them it's time to gain altitude ladies and gentlemen Steve Mulaney president and CEO of aviatrix the leader of multi cloud networking [Music] [Applause] all right good morning everybody here in Santa Clara as well as to the what millions of people watching the livestream worldwide welcome to altitude 2020 all right so we've got a fantastic event today really excited about the speakers that we have today and the experts that we have and really excited to get started so one of the things I wanted to just share was this is not a one-time event it's not a one-time thing that we're gonna do sorry for the aviation analogy but you know sherry way aviatrix means female pilot so everything we do as an aviation theme this is a take-off for a movement this isn't an event this is a take-off of a movement a multi-cloud networking movement and community that we're inviting all of you to become part of and-and-and why we're doing that is we want to enable enterprises to rise above the clouds so to speak and build their network architecture regardless of which public cloud they're using whether it's one or more of these public clouds so the good news for today there's lots of good news but this is one good news is we don't have any powerpoint presentations no marketing speak we know that marketing people have their own language we're not using any of that in those sales pitches right so instead what are we doing we're going to have expert panels we've got Simone Rashard Gartner here we've got 10 different network architects cloud architects real practitioners they're going to share their best practices and there are real-world experiences on their journey to the multi cloud so before we start and everybody know what today is in the u.s. it's Super Tuesday I'm not gonna get political but Super Tuesday there was a bigger Super Tuesday that happened 18 months ago and maybe eight six employees know what I'm talking about 18 months ago on a Tuesday every enterprise said I'm gonna go to the cloud and so what that was was the Cambrian explosion for cloud for the price so Frank kibrit you know what a Cambrian explosion is he had to look it up on Google 500 million years ago what happened there was an explosion of life where it went from very simple single-cell organisms to very complex multi-celled organisms guess what happened 18 months ago on a Tuesday I don't really know why but every enterprise like I said all woke up that day and said now I'm really gonna go to cloud and that Cambrian explosion of cloud went meant that I'm moving from very simple single cloud single use case simple environment to a very complex multi cloud complex use case environment and what we're here today is we're gonna go and dress that and how do you handle those those those complexities and when you look at what's happening with customers right now this is a business transformation right people like to talk about transitions this is a transformation and it's actually not just the technology transformation it's a business transformation it started from the CEO and the boards of enterprise customers where they said I have an existential threat to the survival of my company if you look at every industry who they're worried about is not the other 30 year old enterprise what they're worried about is the three year old enterprise that's leveraging cloud that's leveraging AI and that's where they fear that they're going to actually get wiped out right and so because of this existential threat this is CEO lead this is board led this is not technology led it is mandated in the organization's we are going to digitally transform our enterprise because of this existential threat and the movement to cloud is going to enable us to go do that and so IT is now put back in charge if you think back just a few years ago in cloud it was led by DevOps it was led by the applications and it was like I said before their Cambrian explosion is very simple now with this Cambrian explosion and enterprises getting very serious and mission critical they care about visibility they care about control they care about compliance conformance everything governance IT is in charge and and and that's why we're here today to discuss that so what we're going to do today is much of things but we're gonna validate this journey with customers do they see the same thing we're gonna validate the requirements for multi-cloud because honestly I've never met an enterprise that is not going to be multi-cloud many are one cloud today but they all say I need to architect my network for multiple clouds because that's just what the network is there to support the applications and the applications will run and whatever cloud it runs best in and you have to be prepared for that the second thing is is is architecture again with the IT in charge you architecture matters whether it's your career whether it's how you build your house it doesn't matter horrible architecture your life is horrible forever good architecture your life is pretty good so we're gonna talk about architecture and how the most fundamental and critical part of that architecture and that basic infrastructure is the network if you don't get that right nothing works right way more important and compute way more important than storm dense storage network is the foundational element of your infrastructure then we're going to talk about day 2 operations what does that mean well day 1 is one day of your life that's who you wire things up they do and beyond I tell everyone in networking and IT it's every day of your life and if you don't get that right your life is bad forever and so things like operations visibility security things like that how do I get my operations team to be able to handle this in an automated way because it's not just about configuring it in the cloud it's actually about how do I operationalize it and that's a huge benefit that we bring as aviatrix and then the last thing we're going to talk and it's the last panel we have I always say you can't forget about the humans right so all this technology all these things that we're doing it's always enabled by the humans at the end of the day if the humans fight it it won't get deployed and we have a massive skills gap in cloud and we also have a massive skill shortage you have everyone in the world trying to hire cloud network architects right there's just not enough of them going around so at aviatrix as leaders knew we're gonna help address that issue and try to create more people we created a program and we call the ACE program again an aviation theme it stands for aviatrix certified engineer very similar to what Cisco did with CC IES where Cisco taught you about IP networking a little bit of Cisco we're doing the same thing we're gonna teach network architects about multi-cloud networking and architecture and yeah you'll get a little bit of aviatrix training in there but this is the missing element for people's careers and also within their organization so we're gonna we're gonna go talk about that so great great event great show when try to keep it moving I'd next want to introduce my my host he's the best in the business you guys have probably seen him multiple million times he's the co CEO and co-founder of Tube John Fourier okay awesome great great speech they're awesome I totally agree with everything you said about the explosion happening and I'm excited here at the heart of Silicon Valley to have this event it's a special digital event with the cube and aviatrix where we live streaming to millions of people as you said maybe not a million maybe not really take this program to the world this is a little special for me because multi-cloud is the hottest wave and cloud and cloud native networking is fast becoming the key engine of the innovation so we got an hour and a half of action-packed programming we have a customer panel two customer panels before that Gartner is going to come on talk about the industry we have a global system integrators we talk about how they're advising and building these networks and cloud native networking and then finally the Aces the aviatrix certified engineer is gonna talk more about their certifications and the expertise needed so let's jump right in and let's ask someone rashard to come on stage from Gartner we'll check it all up [Applause] [Music] okay so kicking things off certain started gartner the industry experts on cloud really kind of more to your background talk about your background before you got the gardener yeah before because gardener was a chief network architect of a fortune five companies with thousands of sites over the world and I've been doing everything and IT from a C programmer in the 90 to a security architect to a network engineer to finally becoming a network analyst so you rode the wave now you're covering at the marketplace with hybrid cloud and now moving quickly to multi cloud is really I was talking about cloud natives been discussed but the networking piece is super important how do you see that evolving well the way we see Enterprise adapt in cloud first thing you do about networking the initial phases they either go in a very ad hoc way is usually led by non non IT like a shadow whitey or application people or some kind of DevOps team and it's it just goes as it's completely unplanned decreed VP sees left and right with a different account and they create mesh to manage them and their direct connect or Express route to any of them so that's what that's a first approach and on the other side again it within our first approach you see what I call the lift and shift way we see like Enterprise IT trying to basically replicate what they have in a data center in the cloud so they spend a lot of time planning doing Direct Connect putting Cisco routers and f5 and Citrix and any checkpoint Palo Alto divides the data that are sent removing that to that cloud and I ask you the aha moments gonna come up a lot of our panels is where people realize that it's a multi cloud world I mean they either inherit clouds certainly they're using public cloud and on-premises is now more relevant than ever when's that aha moment that you're seeing where people go well I got to get my act together and get on this well the first but even before multi-cloud so these two approach the first one like the adduct way doesn't scale at some point idea has to save them because they don't think about the two they don't think about operations they have a bunch of VPC and multiple clouds the other way that if you do the left and shift wake they cannot take any advantages of the cloud they lose elasticity auto-scaling pay by the drink these feature of agility features so they both realize okay neither of these ways are good so I have to optimize that so I have to have a mix of what I call the cloud native services within each cloud so they start adapting like other AWS constructor is your construct or Google construct then that's I would I call the up optimal phase but even that they they realize after that they are very different all these approaches different the cloud are different identities is completely difficult to manage across clouds I mean for example AWS has accounts there's subscription and in adarand GCP their projects it's a real mess so they realize well I can't really like concentrate used the cloud the cloud product and every cloud that doesn't work so I have I'm doing multi cloud I like to abstract all of that I still wanna manage the cloud from an API to interview I don't necessarily want to bring my incumbent data center products but I have to do that in a more API driven cloud they're not they're not scaling piece and you were mentioning that's because there's too many different clouds yes that's the piece there so what are they doing whether they really building different development teams as its software what's the solution well this the solution is to start architecting the cloud that's the third phase I call that the multi cloud architect phase where they have to think about abstraction that works across cloud fact even across one cloud it might not scale as well if you start having like 10,000 security group in AWS that doesn't scale you have to manage that if you have multiple VPC it doesn't scale you need a third party identity provider so it barely scales within one cloud if you go multiple cloud it gets worse and worse see way in here what's your thoughts I thought we said this wasn't gonna be a sales pitch for aviatrix you just said exactly what we do so anyway I'm just a joke what do you see in terms of where people are in that multi cloud a lot of people you know everyone I talked to started in one cloud right but then they look and they say okay but I'm now gonna move to adjourn I'm gonna move do you see a similar thing well yes they are moving but they're not there's not a lot of application that use a tree cloud at once they move one app in deserve one app in individuals one get happened Google that's what we see so far okay yeah I mean one of the mistakes that people think is they think multi-cloud no one is ever gonna go multi-cloud for arbitrage they're not gonna go and say well today I might go into Azure because I got a better rate of my instance that's never do you agree with that's never going to happen what I've seen with enterprise is I'm gonna put the workload in the app the app decides where it runs best that may be a sure maybe Google and for different reasons and they're gonna stick there and they're not gonna move let me ask you infrastructure has to be able to support from a networking team be able to do that do you agree with that yes I agree and one thing is also very important is connecting to that cloud is kind of the easiest thing so though while I run Network part of the cloud connectivity to the cloud is kind of simple I agree IPSec VP and I reckon Express that's a simple part what's difficult and even a provisioning part is easy you can use terraform and create v pieces and v nets across which we cloud provider right what's difficult is the day-to-day operations so it's what to find a to operations what is that what does that actually mean this is the day-to-day operations after it you know the natural let's add an app let's add a server let's troubleshoot a problem so what so your life something changes how would he do so what's the big concerns I want to just get back to this cloud native networking because everyone kind of knows with cloud native apps are that's been a hot trend what is cloud native networking how do you how do you guys define that because that seems to be the oddest part of the multi-cloud wave that's coming as cloud native networking well there's no you know official garner definition but I can create one on another spot it's do it I just want to leverage the cloud construct and a cloud epi I don't want to have to install like like for example the first version was let's put a virtual router that doesn't even understand and then the cloud environment right if I have if I have to install a virtual machine it has to be cloud aware it has to understand the security group if it's a router it has to be programmable to the cloud API and and understand the cloud environment you know one things I hear a lot from either see Saussure CIOs or CXOs in general is this idea of I'm definitely on going API so it's been an API economy so API is key on that point but then they say okay I need to essentially have the right relationship with my suppliers aka clouds you call it above the clouds so the question is what do i do from an architecture standpoint do I just hire more developers and have different teams because you mentioned that's a scale point how do you solve this this problem of okay I got AWS I got GCP or Azure or whatever do I just have different teams or just expose api's where is that optimization where's the focus well I take what you need from an android point of view is a way a control plane across the three clouds and be able to use the api of the cloud to build networks but also to troubleshoot them and do they to operation so you need a view across a three cloud that takes care of routing connectivity that's you know that's the aviatrix plug of you right there so so how do you see so again your Gartner you you you you see the industry you've been a network architect how do you see this this plane out what are the what are the legacy incumbent client-server on-prem networking people gonna do well these versus people like aviatrix well how do you see that plane out well obviously all the incumbent like Arista cisco juniper NSX right they want to basically do the lift and ship or they want to bring and you know VM I want to bring in a section that cloud they call that NSX everywhere and cisco monks bring you star in the cloud recall that each guy anywhere right so everyone what and and then there's cloud vision for my red star and contrail is in the cloud so they just want to bring the management plain in the cloud but it's still based most of them it's still based on putting a VM them in controlling them right you you extend your management console to the cloud that's not truly cloud native right cloud native you almost have to build it from scratch we like to call that cloud naive clown that close one letter yeah so that was a big con surgeon i reinvent take the tea out of cloud native its cloud naive i went super viral you guys got t-shirts now i know you love it but yeah but that really ultimately is kind of a double-edged sword you got to be you can be naive on the on the architecture side and rolling out but also suppliers are can be naive so how would you define who's naive and who's not well in fact they're evolving as well so for example in cisco you it's a little bit more native than other ones because they're really ACI in the cloud you call you you really like configure api so the cloud and nsx is going that way and so is Arista but they're incumbent they have their own tools it's difficult for them they're moving slowly so it's much easier to start from scratch Avenue like and you know and network happiness started a few years ago there's only really two aviatrix was the first one they've been there for at least three or four years and there's other ones like Al Kyra for example that just started now that doing more connectivity but they want to create an overlay network across the cloud and start doing policies and trying abstracting all the clouds within one platform so I gotta ask you I interviewed an executive at VMware Sanjay Pune and he said to me at RSA last week oh the only b2 networking vendors left Cisco and VMware what's your respect what's your response to that obviously I mean when you have these waves as new brands that emerge like AV X and others though I think there'll be a lot of startups coming out of the woodwork how do you respond to that comment well there's still a data center there's still like a lot of action on campus and there's the one but from the cloud provisioning and clown networking in general I mean they're behind I think you know in fact you don't even need them to start to it you can if you're small enough you can just keep if you're in AWS you can user it with us construct they have to insert themselves I mean they're running behind they're all certainly incumbents I love the term Andy Jesse's that Amazon Web Services uses old guard new guard to talk about the industry what does the new guard have to do the new and new brands that emerge in is it be more DevOps oriented neck Nets a cops is that net ops is the programmability these are some of the key discussions we've been having what's your view on how you see this program their most important part is they have to make the network's simple for the dev teams and from you cannot have that you cannot make a phone call and get it via line in two weeks anymore so if you move to that cloud you have to make the cloud construct as simple enough so that for example a dev team could say okay I'm going to create this VP see but this VP see automatically being your associate to your account you cannot go out on the internet you have to go to the transit VP C so there's a lot of action in terms of the I am part and you have to put the control around them too so to make it as simple as possible you guys both I mean you're the COC aviatrix but also you guys a lot of experience going back to networking going back to I call the OSI mace which for us old folks know that means but you guys know this means I want to ask you the question as you look at the future of networking here a couple of objectives oh the cloud guys they got networking we're all set with them how do you respond to the fact that networking is changing and the cloud guys have their own networking what some of the pain points that's going on premises and these enterprises so are they good with the clouds what needs what are the key things that's going on in networking that makes it more than just the cloud networking what's your take on well I as I said earlier that once you you could easily provision in the cloud you can easily connect to that cloud is when you start troubleshooting application in the cloud and try to scale so this that's where the problem occurs see what you're taking on it and you'll hear from the from the customers that that we have on stage and I think what happens is all the cloud the clouds by definition designed to the 80/20 rule which means they'll design 80% of the basic functionality and they'll lead the 20% extra functionality that of course every enterprise needs they'll leave that to ISVs like aviatrix because why because they have to make money they have a service and they can't have huge instances for functionality that not everybody needs so they have to design to the common and that's they all do it right they have to and then the extra the problem is that can be an explosion that I talked about with enterprises that's holy that's what they need that they're the ones who need that extra 20% so that's that's what I see is is there's always gonna be that extra functionality the in in an automated and simple way that you talked about but yet powerful with up with the visibility and control that they expect of on prep that that's that kind of combination that yin and the yang that people like us are providing some I want to ask you were gonna ask some of the cloud architect customer panels it's the same question this pioneers doing some work here and there's also the laggards who come in behind the early adopters what's gonna be the tipping point what are some of those conversations that the cloud architects are having out there or what's the signs that they need to be on this multi cloud or cloud native networking trend what are some the signals that are going on in their environment what are some of the threshold or things that are going on that there can pay attention to well well once they have application and multiple cloud and they have they get wake up at 2:00 in the morning to troubleshoot them they don't know it's important so I think that's the that's where the robber will hit the road but as I said it's easier to prove it it's okay it's 80s it's easy user transit gateway put a few V pcs and you're done and use create some presents like equinox and do Direct Connect and Express route with Azure that looks simple is the operations that's when they'll realize okay now I need to understand our car networking works I also need a tool that give me visibility and control not button tell me that I need to understand the basic underneath it as well what are some of the day in the life scenarios that you envision happening with multi cloud because you think about what's happening it kind of has that same vibe of interoperability choice multi-vendor because you have multi clouds essentially multi vendor these are kind of old paradigms that we've lived through the client-server and internet working wave what are some of those scenarios of success and that might be possible it would be possible with multi cloud and cloud native networking well I think once you have good enough visibility to satisfy your customers you know not only like to keep the service running an application running but to be able to provision fast enough I think that's what you want to achieve small final question advice for folks watching on the live stream if they're sitting there as a cloud architect or a CXO what's your advice to them right now in this market because honestly public check hybrid cloud they're working on that that gets on-premise is done now multi-class right behind it what's your advice the first thing they should do is really try to understand cloud networking for each of their cloud providers and then understand the limitation and is what their cloud service provider offers enough or you need to look to a third party but you don't look at a third party to start to it especially an incumbent one so it's tempting to say on and I have a bunch of f5 experts nothing against f5 I'm going to bring my five in the cloud when you can use a needle be that automatically understand ease ease and auto-scaling and so on and you understand that's much simpler but sometimes you need you have five because you have requirements you have like AI rules and that kind of stuff that you use for years you cannot do it's okay I have requirement and that net I'm going to use legacy stuff and then you have to start thinking okay what about visibility control about the tree cloud but before you do that you have to understand the limitation of the existing cloud providers so first try to be as native as possible until things don't work after that you can start taking multi-cloud great insight somewhat thank you for coming someone in charge with Gardner thanks for sharing thank you appreciate it [Applause] informatica is known as the leading enterprise cloud data management company we are known for being the top in our industry in at least five different products over the last few years especially we've been transforming into a cloud model which allows us to work better with the trends of our customers in order to see agile and effective in a business you need to make sure that your products and your offerings are just as relevant in all these different clouds than what you're used to and what you're comfortable with one of the most difficult challenges we've always had is that because we're a data company we're talking about data that a customer owns some of that data may be in the cloud some of that data may be on Prem some of them data may be actually in their data center in another region or even another country and having that data connect back to our systems that are located in the cloud has always been a challenge when we first started our engagement with aviatrix we only had one plan that was Amazon it wasn't till later that a jerk came up and all of a sudden we found hey the solution we already had in place for aviatrix already working in Amazon and now works in Missouri as well before we knew it GCP came up but it really wasn't a big deal for us because we already had the same solution in Amazon and integer now just working in GCP by having a multi cloud approach we have access to all three of them but more commonly it's not just one it's actually integrations between multiple we have some data and ensure that we want to integrate with Amazon we have some data in GCP that we want to bring over to a data Lake assure one of the nice things about aviatrix is that it gives a very simple interface that my staff can understand and use and manage literally hundreds of VPNs around the world and while talking to and working with our customers who are literally around the world now that we've been using aviatrix for a couple years we're actually finding that even problems that we didn't realize we had were actually solved even before we came across the problem and it just worked cloud companies as a whole are based on reputation we need to be able to protect our reputation and part of that reputation is being able to protect our customers and being able to protect more importantly our customers data aviatrix has been helpful for us in that we only have one system that can manage this whole huge system in a simple easy direct model aviatrix is directly responsible for helping us secure and manage our customers not only across the world but across multiple clouds users don't have to be VPN or networking experts in order to be able to use the system all the members on my team can manage it all the members regardless of their experience can do different levels of it one of the unexpected two advantages of aviatrix is that I don't have to sell it to my management the fact that we're not in the news at three o'clock in the morning or that we don't have to get calls in the middle of the night no news is good news especially in networking things that used to take weeks to build are done in hours I think the most important thing about a matrix is it provides me consistency aviatrix gives me a consistent model that I can use across multiple regions multiple clouds multiple customers okay welcome back to altitude 2020 for the folks on the livestream I'm John for Steve Mulaney with CEO of aviatrix for our first of two customer panels on cloud with cloud network architects we got Bobby Willoughby they gone Luis Castillo of National Instruments and David should Nick with fact set guys welcome to the stage for this digital event come on up [Music] hey good to see you thank you okay okay customer panelist is my favorite part we get to hear the real scoop we got the gardener giving us the industry overview certainly multi clouds very relevant and cloud native networking is the hot trend with the live stream out there and the digital event so guys let's get into it the journey is you guys are pioneering this journey of multi cloud and cloud native networking and it's soon gonna be a lot more coming so I want to get into the journey what's it been like is it real you got a lot of scar tissue and what are some of the learnings yeah absolutely so multi cloud is whether or not we we accepted as a network engineers is a is a reality like Steve said about two years ago companies really decided to to just to just bite the bullet and and and move there whether or not whether or not we we accept that fact we need to now create a consistent architecture across across multiple clouds and that that is challenging without orchestration layers as you start managing different different tool sets in different languages across different clouds so that's it's really important that to start thinking about that guys on the other panelists here there's different phases of this journey some come at it from a networking perspective some come in from a problem troubleshooting what's what's your experiences yeah so from a networking perspective it's been incredibly exciting it's kind of a once-in-a-generation 'el opportunity to look at how you're building out your network you can start to embrace things like infrastructure as code that maybe your peers on the systems teams have been doing for years but it just never really worked on pram so it's really it's really exciting to look at all the opportunities that we have and then all the interesting challenges that come up that you that you get to tackle an effect said you guys are mostly AWS right yep right now though we are looking at multiple clouds we have production workloads running in multiple clouds today but a lot of the initial work has been with Amazon and you've seen it from a networking perspective that's where you guys are coming at it from yep yeah we evolved more from a customer requirement perspective started out primarily as AWS but as the customer needed more resources to measure like HPC you know as your ad things like that even recently Google at Google Analytics our journey has evolved into mortal multi-cloud environment Steve weigh in on the architecture because this has been the big conversation I want you to lead this second yeah so I mean I think you guys agree the journey you know it seems like the journey started a couple years ago got real serious the need for multi-cloud whether you're there today of course it's gonna be there in the future so that's really important I think the next thing is just architecture I'd love to hear what you you know had some comments about architecture matters it all starts I mean every Enterprise that I talk to maybe talk about architecture and the importance of architecture maybe Bobby it's a particular perspective we sorted a journey five years ago Wow okay and we're just now starting our fourth evolution of our network architect and we'll call it networking security net sec yep adverse adjusters network and that fourth generation or architectures be based primarily upon Palo Alto Networks an aviatrix a matrix doing the orchestration piece of it but that journey came because of the need for simplicity okay I need for multi-cloud orchestration without us having to go and do reprogramming efforts across every cloud as it comes along right I guess the other question I also had around architectures also Louis maybe just talk about I know we've talked a little bit about you know scripting right and some of your thoughts on that yeah absolutely so so for us we started we started creating the network constructs with cloud formation and we've we've stuck with that for the most part what's interesting about that is today on premise we have a lot of a lot of automation around around how we provision networks but cloud formation has become a little bit like the new manual for us so we're now having issues with having to to automate that component and making it consistent with our on-premise architecture making it consistent with Azure architecture and Google cloud so it's really interesting to see to see companies now bring that layer of abstraction that SD when brought to the to the wine side now it's going up into into the into the cloud networking architecture so on the fourth generation of you mentioned you're in the fourth gen architecture what do you guys what have you learned is there any lessons scar tissue what to avoid what worked what was some of the there was a path that's probably the biggest list and there is when you think you finally figured it out you have it right Amazon will change something as you change something you know transit gateways a game changer so in listening to the business requirements is probably the biggest thing we need to do up front but I think from a simplicity perspective like I said we don't want to do things four times we want to do things one time we won't be able to write to an API which aviatrix has and have them do the orchestration for us so that we don't have to do it four times how important is architecture in the progression is it you guys get thrown in the deep end to solve these problems or you guys zooming out and looking at it it's a I mean how are you guys looking at the architecture I mean you can't get off the ground if you don't have the network there so all of those there we've gone through similar evolutions we're on our fourth or fifth evolution I think about what we started off with Amazon without a direct connect gate without a transit Gateway without a lot of the things that are available today kind of the 80/20 that Steve was talking about just because it wasn't there doesn't mean we didn't need it so we needed to figure out a way to do it we couldn't say oh you need to come back to the network team in a year and maybe Amazon will have a solution for it right you need to do it now and in evolve later and maybe optimize or change the way you're doing things in the future but don't sit around and wait you can I'd love to have you guys each individually answer this question for the live stream because it comes up a lot a lot of cloud architects out in the community what should they be thinking about the folks that are coming into this proactively and/or realizing the business benefits are there what advice would you guys give them an architecture what should be they be thinking about and what are some guiding principles you could share so I would start with looking at an architecture model that that can that can spread and and give consistency they're different to different cloud vendors that you will absolutely have to support cloud vendors tend to want to pull you into using their native toolset and that's good if only it was realistic to talk about only one cloud but because it doesn't it's it's it's super important to talk about and have a conversation with the business and with your technology teams about a consistent model so that's the David yeah talking as earlier about day two operations so how do I design how do I do my day one work so that I'm not you know spending eighty percent of my time troubleshooting or managing my network because I'm doing that then I'm missing out on ways that I can make improvements or embrace new technologies so it's really important early on to figure out how do I make this as low maintenance as possible so that I can focus on the things that the team really should be focusing on Bobby your advice the architect I don't know what else I can do that simplicity of operations is key alright so the holistic view of day to operation you mentioned let's can jump in day one is your your your getting stuff set up day two is your life after all right this is kinda what you're getting at David so what does that look like what are you envisioning as you look at that 20 mile stair out post multi-cloud world what are some of the things that you want in a day to operations yeah infrastructure is code is really important to us so how do we how do we design it so that we can fit start making network changes and fitting them into like a release pipeline and start looking at it like that rather than somebody logging into a router CLI and troubleshooting things on in an ad hoc nature so moving more towards the DevOps model is anything on that day - yeah I would love to add something so in terms of day 2 operations you can you can either sort of ignore the day 2 operations for a little while where you get well you get your feet wet or you can start approaching it from the beginning the fact is that the the cloud native tools don't have a lot of maturity in that space and when you run into an issue you're gonna end up having a bad day going through millions and millions of logs just to try to understand what's going on so that's something that that the industry just now is beginning to realize it's it's such a such a big gap I think that's key because for us we're moving to more of an event-driven or operations in the past monitoring got the job done it's impossible to modern monitor something there's nothing there when the event happens all right so the event-driven application and then detect is important yeah I think garden was all about the cloud native wave coming into networking that's gonna be a serious thing I want to get you guys perspectives I know you have different views of how you come into the journey and how you're executing and I always say the beauties in the eye of the beholder and that kind of applies how the networks laid out so Bobby you guys do a lot of high-performance encryption both on AWS and Azure that's kind of a unique thing for you how are you seeing that impact with multi cloud yeah and that's a new requirement for us to where we we have an intern crypt and they they ever get the question should I encryption and I'll encrypt the answer is always yes you should encrypt when you can encrypt for our perspective we we need to migrate a bunch of data from our data centers we have some huge data centers and then getting that data to the cloud is the timely experiencing some cases so we have been mandated that we have to encrypt everything leaving the data center so we're looking at using the aviatrix insane mode appliances to be able to encrypt you know 10 20 gigabits of data as it moves to the cloud itself David you're using terraform you got fire Ned you've got a lot of complexity in your network what do you guys look at the future for yours environment yeah so something exciting that or yeah now is fire net so for our security team they obviously have a lot of a lot of knowledge base around Palo Alto and with our commitments to our clients you know it's it's it's not very easy to shift your security model to a specific cloud vendor right so there's a lot of stuck to compliance of things like that where being able to take some of what you've you know you've worked on for years on Bram and put it in the cloud and have the same type of assurance that things are gonna work and be secure in the same way that they are on prem helps make that journey into the cloud a lot easier and Louis you guys got scripting and get a lot of things going on what's your what's your unique angle on this yeah no absolutely so full disclosure I'm not a not not an aviatrix customer yet it's ok we want to hear the truth that's good Ellis what are you thinking about what's on your mind no really when you when you talk about implementing the tool like this it's really just really important to talk about automation and focus on on value so when you talk about things like and things like so yeah encrypting tunnels and encrypting the paths and those things are it should it should should be second nature really when you when you look at building those backends and managing them with your team it becomes really painful so tools like aviatrix that that add a lot of automation it's out of out of sight out of mind you can focus on the value and you don't have to focus on so I gotta ask you guys I see AV traces here they're they're a supplier to the sector but you guys are customers everyone's pitching you stuff people are not gonna buy my stuff how do you guys have that conversation with the suppliers like the cloud vendors and other folks what's the what's it like where API all the way you got to support this what are some of the what are some of your requirements how do you talk to and evaluate people that walk in and want to knock on your door and pitch you something what's the conversation like um it's definitely it's definitely API driven we we definitely look at the at that the API structure of the vendors provide before we select anything that that is always first in mind and also what a problem are we really trying to solve usually people try to sell or try to give us something that isn't really valuable like implementing a solution on the on the on the cloud isn't really it doesn't really add a lot of value that's where we go David what's your conversation like with suppliers you have a certain new way to do things as as becomes more agile and essentially the networking become more dynamic what are some of the conversation is with the either incumbents or new new vendors that you're having what it what do you require yeah so ease of use is definitely definitely high up there we've had some vendors come in and say you know hey you know when you go to set this up we're gonna want to send somebody on site and they're gonna sit with you for your day to configure it and that's kind of a red flag what wait a minute you know do we really if one of my really talented engineers can't figure it out on his own what's going on there and why is that so you know having having some ease-of-use and the team being comfortable with it and understanding it is really important Bobby how about you I mean the old days was do a bake-off and you know the winner takes all I mean is it like that anymore what's the Volvic bake-off last year first you win so but that's different now because now when you you get the product you can install the product in AWS energy or have it up and running a matter of minutes and so the key is is they can you be operational you know within hours or days instead of weeks but but do we also have the flexibility to customize it to meet your needs could you want to be you won't be put into a box with the other customers we have needs that surpass their cut their needs yeah I almost see the challenge that you guys are living where you've got the cloud immediate value to make an roll-up any solutions but then you have might have other needs so you've got to be careful not to buy into stuff that's not shipping so you're trying to be proactive at the same time deal with what you got I mean how do you guys see that evolving because multi-cloud to me is definitely relevant but it's not yet clear how to implement across how do you guys look at this baked versus you know future solutions coming how do you balance that so again so right now we we're we're taking the the ad hoc approach and and experimenting with the different concepts of cloud and really leveraging the the native constructs of each cloud but but there's a there's a breaking point for sure you don't you don't get to scale this I like like Simone said and you have to focus on being able to deliver a developer they're their sandbox or their play area for the for the things that they're trying to build quickly and the only way to do that is with the with with some sort of consistent orchestration layer that allows you to so you've got a lot more stuff to be coming pretty quickly IDEs area I do expect things to start to start maturing quite quite quickly this year and you guys see similar trend new stuff coming fast yeah part of the biggest challenge we've got now is being able to segment within the network being able to provide segmentation between production on production workloads even businesses because we support many businesses worldwide and and isolation between those is a key criteria there so the ability to identify and quickly isolate those workloads is key so the CIOs that are watching or that are saying hey take that he'll do multi cloud and then you know the bottoms up organization think pause you're kind of like off a little bit it's not how it works I mean what is the reality in terms of implementing you know and as fast as possible because the business benefits are clear but it's not always clear in the technology how to move that fast yeah what are some of the barriers one of the blockers what are the enabler I think the reality is is that you may not think you're multi-cloud but your business is right so I think the biggest barriers there is understanding what the requirements are and how best to meet those requirements in a secure manner because you need to make sure that things are working from a latency perspective that things work the way they did and get out of the mind shift that you know it was a cheery application in the data center it doesn't have to be a Tier three application in the cloud so lift and shift is is not the way to go scale is a big part of what I see is the competitive advantage to allow these clouds and used to be proprietary network stacks in the old days and then open systems came that was a good thing but as clouds become bigger there's kind of an inherent lock in there with the scale how do you guys keep the choice open how're you guys thinking about interoperability what are some of the conversations and you guys are having around those key concepts well when we look at when we look at the moment from a networking perspective it it's really key for you to just enable enable all the all the clouds to be to be able to communicate between them developers will will find a way to use the cloud that best suits their their business team and and like like you said it's whether whether you're in denial or not of the multi cloud fact that your company is in already that's it becomes really important for you to move quickly yeah and a lot of it also hinges on how well is the provider embracing what that specific cloud is doing so are they are they swimming with Amazon or sure and just helping facilitate things they're doing the you know the heavy lifting API work for you or they swimming upstream and they're trying to hack it all together in a messy way and so that helps you you know stay out of the lock-in because they're you know if they're doing if they're using Amazon native tools to help you get where you need to be it's not like Amazon's gonna release something in the future that completely you know makes you have designed yourself into a corner so the closer they're more cloud native they are the more the easier it is to to deploy but you also need to be aligned in such a way that you can take advantage of those cloud native technologies will it make sense tgw is a game-changer in terms of cost and performance right so to completely ignore that would be wrong but you know if you needed to have encryption you know teach Adobe's not encrypted so you need to have some type of a gateway to do the VPN encryption you know so the aviatrix tool give you the beauty of both worlds you can use tgw with a gateway Wow real quick in the last minute we have I want to just get a quick feedback from you guys I hear a lot of people say to me hey the I picked the best cloud for the workload you got and then figure out multi cloud behind the scenes so that seems to be do you guys agree with that I mean is it do I go Mull one cloud across the whole company or this workload works great on AWS that work was great on this from a cloud standpoint do you agree with that premise and then wit is multi clouds did you mall together yeah from from an application perspective it it can be per workload but it can also be an economical decision certain enterprise contracts will will pull you in one direction that add value but the the network problem is still the same doesn't go away yeah yeah I mean you don't want to be trying to fit a square into a round hall right so if it works better on that cloud provider then it's our job to make sure that that service is there and people can use it agree you just need to stay ahead of the game make sure that the network infrastructure is there secure is available and is multi cloud capable yeah I'm at the end of the day you guys just validating that it's the networking game now how cloud storage compute check networking is where the action is awesome thanks for your insights guys appreciate you coming on the panel appreciate thanks thank you [Applause] [Music] [Applause] okay welcome back on the live feed I'm John fritz T Blaney my co-host with aviatrix I'm with the cube for the special digital event our next customer panel got great another set of cloud network architects Justin Smith was aura Justin broadly with Ellie Mae and Amit Oh tree job with Cooper welcome to stage [Applause] all right thank you thank you oK you've got all the cliff notes from the last session welcome rinse and repeat yeah yeah we're going to go under the hood a little bit I think they nailed the what we've been reporting and we've been having this conversation around networking is where the action is because that's the end of the day you got a move a pack from A to B and you get workloads exchanging data so it's really killer so let's get started Amit what are you seeing as the journey of multi cloud as you go under the hood and say okay I got to implement this I have to engineer the network make it enabling make it programmable make it interoperable across clouds I mean that's like I mean almost sounds impossible to me what's your take yeah I mean it's it seems impossible but if you are running an organization which is running infrastructure as a cordon all right it is easily doable like you can use tools out there that's available today you can use third-party products that can do a better job but but put your architecture first don't wait architecture may not be perfect put the best architecture that's available today and be agile to ET rate and make improvements over the time we got to Justin's over here so I have to be careful when I point a question adjusting they both have to answer okay journeys what's the journey been like I mean is there phases we heard that from Gardner people come into multi cloud and cloud native networking from different perspectives what's your take on the journey Justin yeah I mean from Mars like - we started out very much focused on one cloud and as we started doing errands we started doing new products the market the need for multi cloud comes very apparent very quickly for us and so you know having an architecture that we can plug in play into and be able to add and change things as it changes is super important for what we're doing in the space just in your journey yes for us we were very ad hoc oriented and the idea is that we were reinventing all the time trying to move into these new things and coming up with great new ideas and so rather than it being some iterative approach with our deployments that became a number of different deployments and so we shifted that tour and the network has been a real enabler of this is that it there's one network and it touches whatever cloud we want it to touch and it touches the data centers that we need it to touch and it touches the customers that we need it to touch our job is to make sure that the services that are of and one of those locations are available in all of the locations so the idea is not that we need to come up with this new solution every time it's that we're just iterating on what we've already decided to do before we get the architecture section I want to ask you guys a question I'm a big fan of you know let the app developers have infrastructure as code so check but having the right cloud run that workload I'm a big fan of that if it works great but we just heard from the other panel you can't change the network so I want to get your thoughts what is cloud native networking and is that the engine really that's the enabler for this multi cloud trend but you guys taken we'll start with Amit what do you think about that yeah so you are gonna have workloads running in different clouds and the workloads would have affinity to one cloud over other but how you expose that it's matter of how you are going to build your networks how we are going to run security how we are going to do egress ingress out of it so it's the big problem how do you split says what's the solution what's the end the key pain points and problem statement I mean the key pain point for most companies is how do you take your traditional on-premise network and then blow that out to the cloud in a way that makes sense you know IP conflicts you have IP space you pub public eye peas and premise as well as in the cloud and how do you kind of make them a sense of all of that and I think that's where tools like aviatrix make a lot of sense in that space from our site it's it's really simple it's latency and bandwidth and availability these don't change whether we're talking about cloud or data center or even corporate IT networking so our job when when these all of these things are simplified into like s3 for instance and our developers want to use those we have to be able to deliver that and for a particular group or another group that wants to use just just GCP resources these aren't we have to support these requirements and these wants as opposed to saying hey that's not a good idea now our job is to enable them not to disable them do you think you guys think infrastructure as code which I love that I think it's that's the future it is we saw that with DevOps but I just start getting the networking is it getting down to the network portion where it's network as code because storage and compute working really well is seeing all kubernetes on ServiceMaster and network is code reality is it there is it still got work to do it's absolutely there I mean you mentioned net DevOps and it's it's very real I mean in Cooper we build our networks through terraform and on not only just out of fun build an API so that we can consistently build V nets and VPC all across in the same way we get to do it yeah and even security groups and then on top and aviatrix comes in we can peer the networks bridge bridge all the different regions through code same with you guys but yeah about this everything we deploy is done with automation and then we also run things like lambda on top to make changes in real time we don't make manual changes on our network in the data center funny enough it's still manual but the cloud has enabled us to move into this automation mindset and and all my guys that's what they focus on is bringing what now what they're doing in the cloud into the data center which is kind of opposite of what it should be that's full or what it used to be it's full DevOps then yes yeah I mean for us it was similar on premise still somewhat very manual although we're moving more Norton ninja and terraform concepts but everything in the production environment is colored confirmation terraform code and now coming into the datacenter same I just wanted to jump in on a Justin Smith one of the comment that you made because it's something that we always talk about a lot is that the center of gravity of architecture used to be an on-prem and now it's shifted in the cloud and once you have your strategic architecture what you--what do you do you push that everywhere so what you used to see at the beginning of cloud was pushing the architecture on prem into cloud now i want to pick up on what you said to you others agree that the center of architect of gravity is here i'm now pushing what i do in the cloud back into on Prem and wait and then so first that and then also in the journey where are you at from zero to a hundred of actually in the journey to cloud do you 50% there are you 10% yes I mean are you evacuating data centers next year I mean were you guys at yeah so there's there's two types of gravity that you typically are dealing with no migration first is data gravity and your data set and where that data lives and then the second is the network platform that interrupts all that together right in our case the data gravity sold mostly on Prem but our network is now extend out to the app tier that's going to be in cloud right eventually that data gravity will also move to cloud as we start getting more sophisticated but you know in our journey we're about halfway there about halfway through the process we're taking a handle of you know lift and shift and when did that start and we started about three years ago okay okay go by it's a very different story it started from a garage and one hundred percent on the clock it's a business spend management platform as a software-as-a-service one hundred percent on the cloud it was like ten years ago right yes yeah you guys are riding the wave love that architecture Justin I want to ask you Sora you guys mentioned DevOps I mean obviously we saw the huge observability wave which is essentially network management for the cloud in my opinion right yeah it's more dynamic but this is about visibility we heard from the last panel you don't know what's being turned on or turned off from a services standpoint at any given time how is all this playing out when you start getting into the DevOps down well this layer this is the big challenge for all of us as visibility when you talk transport within a cloud you know we very interestingly we have moved from having a backbone that we bought that we owned that would be data center connectivity we now I work for soar as a subscription billing company so we want to support the subscription mindset so rather than going and buying circuits and having to wait three months to install and then coming up with some way to get things connected and resiliency and redundancy I my backbone is in the cloud I use the cloud providers interconnections between regions to transport data across and and so if you do that with their native solutions you you do lose visibility there there are areas in that that you don't get which is why controlling you know controllers and having some type of management plane is a requirement for us to do what we're supposed to do and provide consistency while doing it a great conversation I loved when you said earlier latency bandwidth availability with your sim pop3 things guys SLA I mean you just do ping times are between clouds it's like you don't know what you're getting for round-trip times this becomes a huge kind of risk management black hole whatever you want to call blind spot how are you guys looking at the interconnects between clouds because you know I can see that working from you know ground to cloud I'm per cloud but when you start doing with multi clouds workloads I mean s LA's will be all over the map won't they just inherently but how do you guys view that yeah I think we talked about workload and we know that the workloads are going to be different in different clouds but they are going to be calling each other so it's very important to have that visibility that you can see how data is flowing at what latency and whatever ability is our is there and our authority needs to operate on that so it's so you use the software dashboard look at the times and look at the latency in the old days strong so on open so on you try to figure it out and then your days you have to figure out just what she reinsert that because you're in the middle of it yeah I mean I think the the key thing there is that we have to plan for that failure we have to plan for that latency in our applications that start thinking start tracking in your SLI something you start planning for and you loosely couple these services and a much more micro services approach so you actually can handle that kind of failure or that type of unknown latency and unfortunately the cloud has made us much better at handling exceptions a much better way you guys are all great examples of cloud native from day one and you guys had when did you have the tipping point moment or the Epiphany of saying a multi clouds real I can't ignore it I got to factor it into all my design design principles and and everything you're doing what's it was there a moment was it was it from day one no there were two reasons one was the business so in business there was some affinity to not be in one cloud or to be in one cloud and that drove from the business side so as a cloud architect our responsibility was to support that business and other is the technology some things are really running better in like if you are running dot Network load or you are going to run machine learning or AI so that you have you would have that reference of one cloud over other so it was the bill that we got from AWS I mean that's that's what drives a lot of these conversations is the financial viability of what you're building on top of it which is so we this failure domain idea which is which is fairly interesting is how do I solve or guarantee against a failure domain you have methodologies with you know back-end direct connects or interconnect with GCP all of these ideas are something that you have to take into account but that transport layer should not matter to whoever we're building this for our job is to deliver the frames in the packets what that flows across how you get there we want to make that seamless and so whether it's a public internet API call or it's a back-end connectivity through Direct Connect it doesn't matter it just has to meet a contract that you signed with your application folks yeah that's the availability piece just in your thoughts on anything any common uh so actually a multi clouds become something much more recent in the last six to eight months I'd say we always kind of had a very much an attitude of like moving to Amazon from our private cloud is hard enough why complicate it further but the realities of the business and as we start seeing you know improvements in Google and Asia and different technology spaces the need for multi cloud becomes much more important as well as our acquisition strategies I matured we're seeing that companies that used to be on premise that we typically acquire are now very much already on a cloud and if they're on a cloud I need to plug them into our ecosystem and so that's really change our multi cloud story in a big way I'd love to get your thoughts on the clouds versus the clouds because you know you compare them Amazon's got more features they're rich with features I see the bills are how could people using them but Google's got a great network Google's networks pretty damn good and then you got a sure what's the difference between the clouds who with they've evolved something whether they peak in certain areas better than others what what are the characteristics which makes one cloud better do they have a unique feature that makes as you're better than Google and vice versa what do you guys think about the different clouds yeah to my experience I think there is approaches different in many places Google has a different approach very DevOps friendly and you can run your workload like the your network and spend regions time I mean but our application ready to accept that MS one is evolving I mean I remember 10 years back Amazon's Network was a flat network we will be launching servers and 10.0.0.0 so the VP sees concept came out multi-account came out so they are evolving as you are at a late start but because they have a late start they saw the pattern and they they have some mature set up on the yeah I think they're all trying to say they're equal in their own ways I think they all have very specific design philosophies that allow them to be successful in different ways and you have to kind of keep that in mind as you architectural solution for example amazon has a very much a very regional affinity they don't like to go cross region in their architecture whereas Google is very much it's a global network we're gonna think about as a global solution I think Google also has advantages its third to market and so has seen what Asia did wrong it seemed with AWS did wrong and it's made those improvements and I think that's one of their big advantage at great scale to Justin thoughts on the cloud so yeah Amazon built from the system up and Google built from the network down so their ideas and approaches are from a global versus or regional I agree with you completely that that is the big number one thing but the if you look at it from the outset interestingly the inability or the ability for Amazon to limit layer 2 broadcasting and and what that really means from a VPC perspective changed all the routing protocols you can use all the things that we have built inside of a data center to provide resiliency and and and make things seamless to users all of that disappeared and so because we had to accept that at the VPC level now we have to accept it at the LAN level Google's done a better job of being able to overcome those things and provide those traditional Network facilities to us just great panel can go all day here's awesome so I heard we could we'll get to the cloud native naive questions so kind of think about what's not even what's cloud is that next but I got to ask you had a conversation with a friend he's like Wayne is the new land so if you think about what the land was at a datacenter when is the new link you could talking about the cloud impact so that means st when the old st way is kind of changing into the new land how do you guys look at that because if you think about it what lands were for inside a premises was all about networking high-speed but now when you take the win and make it essentially a land do you agree with that and how do you view this trend and is it good or bad or is it ugly and what's what you guys take on this yeah I think it's a it's a thing that you have to work with your application architect so if you are managing networks and if you are a sorry engineer you need to work with them to expose the unreliability that would bring in so the application has to hand a lot of this the difference in the latencies and and the reliability has to be worked through the application there Lanois same concept is that BS I think we've been talking about for a long time the erosion of the edge and so is this is just a continuation of that journey we've been on for the last several years as we get more and more cloud native and we start about API is the ability to lock my data in place and not be able to access it really goes away and so I think this is just continuation that thing I think it has challenges we start talking about weighing scale versus land scale the tooling doesn't work the same the scale of that tooling is much larger and the need to automation is much much higher in a way and than it was in a land that's where is what you're seeing so much infrastructure as code yeah yes so for me I'll go back again to this its bandwidth and its latency right that bet define those two land versus win but the other thing that's comes up more and more with cloud deployments is where is our security boundary and where can I extend this secure aware appliance or set of rules to to protect what's inside of it so for us we're able to deliver vr af-s or route forwarding tables for different segments wherever we're at in the world and so they're they're trusted to talk to each other but if they're gonna go to someplace that's outside of their their network then they have to cross a security boundary and where we enforce policy very heavily so for me there's it's not just land when it's it's how does environment get to environment more importantly that's a great point and security we haven't talked to yet but that's got to be baked in from the beginning this architecture thoughts on security are you guys are dealing with it yeah start from the base have apt to have security built in have TLS have encryption on the data I transit data at rest but as you bring the application to the cloud and they are going to go multi-cloud talking to over the Internet in some places well have apt web security I mean I mean our principles day Security's day zero every day and so we we always build it into our design build into our architecture into our applications it's encrypt everything it's TLS everywhere it's make sure that that data is secured at all times yeah one of the cool trends at RSA just as a side note was the data in use encryption piece which is a homomorphic stuff is interesting all right guys final question you know we heard on the earlier panel was also trending at reinvent we take the tea out of cloud native it spells cloud naive okay they got shirts now aviatrix kind of got this trend going what does that mean to be naive so if you're to your peers out there watching a live stream and also the suppliers that are trying to supply you guys with technology and services what's naive look like and what's native look like when is someone naive about implementing all this stuff so for me it's because we are in hundred-percent cloud for us it's main thing is ready for the change and you will you will find new building blocks coming in and the network design will evolve and change so don't be naive and think that it's static you wall with the change I think the big naivety that people have is that well I've been doing it this way for 20 years and been successful it's going to be successful in cloud the reality is that's not the case you have to think some of the stuff a little bit differently and you need to think about it early enough so that you can become cloud native and really enable your business on cloud yeah for me it's it's being open minded right the the our industry the network industry as a whole has been very much I am smarter than everybody else and we're gonna tell everybody how it's going to be done and we had we fell into a lull when it came to producing infrastructure and and and so embracing this idea that we can deploy a new solution or a new environment in minutes as opposed to hours or weeks or four months in some cases is really important and and so you know it's are you being closed-minded native being open minded exactly and and it took a for me it was that was a transformative kind of where I was looking to solve problems in a cloud way as opposed to looking to solve problems in this traditional old-school way all right I know we're out of time but I ask one more question so you guys so good it could be a quick answer what's the BS language when you the BS meter goes off when people talk to you about solutions what's the kind of jargon that you hear that's the BS meter going off what are people talking about that in your opinion you here you go that's total BS but what triggers use it so that I have two lines out of movies that are really I can if I say them without actually thinking them it's like 1.21 jigowatts are you out of your mind from Back to the Future right somebody's getting a bang and then and then Martin Mull and and Michael Keaton and mr. mom when he goes to 22 21 whatever it takes yeah those two right there if those go off in my mind somebody's talking to me I know they're full of baloney so a lot of speech would be a lot of speeds and feeds a lot of data did it instead of talking about what you're actually doing and solutioning for you're talking about well I does this this this and any time I start seeing the cloud vendor start benchmarking against each other it's your workload is your workload you need to benchmark yourself don't don't listen to the marketing on that that's that's all what triggers you and the bsp I think if somebody explains you and not simple they cannot explain you in simplicity then that's good all right guys thanks for the great insight great time how about a round of applause DX easy solutions integrating company than we service customers from all industry verticals and we're helping them to move to the digital world so as a solutions integrator we interface with many many customers that have many different types of needs and they're on their IT journey to modernize their applications into the cloud so we encounter many different scenarios many different reasons for those migrations all of them seeking to optimize their IT solutions to better enable their business we have our CPS organization it's cloud platform services we support AWS does your Google Alibaba corkle will help move those workloads to wherever it's most appropriate no one buys the house for the plumbing equally no one buys the solution for the networking but if the plumbing doesn't work no one likes the house and if this network doesn't work no one likes a solution so network is ubiquitous it is a key component of every solution we do the network connectivity is the lifeblood of any architecture without network connectivity nothing works properly planning and building a scalable robust network that's gonna be able to adapt with the application needs critical when encountering some network design and talking about speed the deployment aviatrix came up in discussion and we then further pursued an area DHT products have incorporated aviatrix is part of a new offering that we are in the process of developing that really enhances our ability to provide cloud connectivity for the Lyons cloud connectivity is a new line of networking services so we're getting into as our clients moving the hybrid cloud networking it is much different than our traditional based services and aviatrix provides a key component in that service before we found aviatrix we were using just native peering connections but there wasn't a way to visualize all those peering connections and with multiple accounts multiple contacts for security with a VA Church were able to visualize those different peering connections of security groups it helped a lot especially in areas of early deployment scenarios were quickly able to then take those deployment scenarios and turn them into scripts that we can then deploy repeatedly their solutions were designed to work with the cloud native capabilities first and where those cloud native capabilities fall short they then have solution sets that augment those capabilities I was pleasantly surprised number one with the aviatrix team as a whole and their level of engagement with us you know we weren't only buying the product we were buying a team that came on board to help us implement and solution that was really good to work together to learn both what aviatrix had to offer as well as enhancements that we had to bring that aviatrix was able to put into their product and meet our needs even better aviatrix was a joy to find because they really provided us the technology that we needed in order to provide multi cloud connectivity that really added to the functionality that you can't get from the basically providing services we're taking our customers on a journey to simplify and optimize their IT maybe Atrix certainly has made my job much easier okay welcome back to altitude 2020 for the digital event for the live feed welcome back I'm John Ford with the cube with Steve Mulaney CEO aviatrix for the next panel from global system integrators the folks who are building and working with folks on their journey to multi cloud and cloud native networking we've got a great panel George Buckman with dxc and Derek Monahan with wwt welcome to the stage [Applause] [Music] okay you guys are the ones out there advising building and getting down and dirty with multi cloud and cloud native network and we just heard from the customer panel you can see the diversity of where people come in to the journey of cloud it kind of depends upon where you are but the trends are all clear cloud native networking DevOps up and down the stack this has been the main engine what's your guys take of the disk Jerry to multi cloud what do you guys seeing yeah it's it's critical I mean we're seeing all of our enterprise customers enter into this they've been through the migrations of the easy stuff you know now they're trying to optimize and get more improvement so now the tough stuffs coming on right and you know they need their data processing near where their data is so that's driving them to a multi cloud environment okay we heard some of the edge stuff I mean you guys are exactly you've seen this movie before but now it's a whole new ballgame what's your take yeah so I'll give you a hint so our practice it's not called the cloud practice it's the multi cloud practice and so if that gives you a hint of how we approach things it's very consultative and so when we look at what the trends are let's look a little year ago about a year ago we're having conversations with customers let's build a data center in the cloud let's put some VP C's let's throw some firewalls with some DNS and other infrastructure out there and let's hope it works this isn't a science project so what we're trying to see is customers are starting to have more of a vision and we're helping with that consultative nature but it's totally based on the business and you got to start understanding how the lines of business are using the and then we evolved into the next journey which is a foundational approach to what are some of the problem statement customers are solving when they come to you what are the top things that are on their my house or the ease of use of Julie all that stuff but what specifically they digging into yeah so complexity I think when you look at a multi cloud approach in my view is network requirements are complex you know I think they are but I think the approach can be let's simplify that so one thing that we try to do this is how we talk to customers is let's just like you simplify an aviatrix simplifies the automation orchestration of cloud networking we're trying to simplify the design the planning implementation of infrastructure across multiple workloads across multiple platforms and so the way we do it is we sit down we look at not just use cases and not just the questions in common we tis anticipate we actually build out based on the business and function requirements we build out a strategy and then create a set of documents and guess what we actually build in the lab and that lab that we platform we built proves out this reference architecture actually works absolutely we implement similar concepts I mean we they're proven practices they work great so well George you mentioned that the hard part's now upon us are you referring to networking what is specifically were you getting at Terrance's the easy parts done now so for the enterprises themselves migrating their more critical apps or more difficult apps into the environments you know they've just we've just scratched the surface I believe on what enterprises are doing to move into the cloud to optimize their environments to take advantage of the scale and speed to deployment and to be able to better enable their businesses so they're just now really starting the - so do you get you guys see what I talked about them in terms of their Cambrian explosion I mean you're both monster system integrators with you know top fortune enterprise customers you know really rely on you for for guidance and consulting and so forth and boy they're networks is that something that you you've seen I mean does that resonate did you notice a year and a half ago and all of a sudden the importance of cloud for enterprise shoot up yeah I mean we're seeing it not okay in our internal environment as you know we're a huge company or as customers so we're experiencing that internal okay and every one of our other customers so I have another question oh but I don't know the answer to this and the lawyer never asks a question that you don't know the answer to but I'm gonna ask it anyway DX c + w WT massive system integrators why aviatrix yep so great question Steve so I think the way we approach things I think we have a similar vision a similar strategy how you approach things how we approach things that world by technology number one we want to simplify the complexity and so that's your number one priorities let's take the networking let's simplify it and I think part of the other point I'm making is we have we see this automation piece as not just an afterthought anymore if you look at what customers care about visibility and automation is probably the top three maybe the third on the list and I think that's where we see the value and I think the partnership that we're building and what I would I get excited about is not just putting yours in our lab and showing customers how it works is Co developing a solution with you figuring out hey how can we make this better right visibility's a huge thing jump in security alone network everything's around visibility what automation do you see happening in terms of progression order of operations if you will it's a low-hanging fruit what are people working on now what are what are some of the aspirational goals around when you start thinking about multi cloud and automation yep so I wanted to get back to answer that question I want to answer your question you know what led us there and why aviatrix you know in working some large internal IT projects and and looking at how we were gonna integrate those solutions you know we like to build everything with recipes where network is probably playing catch-up in the DevOps world but with a DevOps mindset looking to speed to deploy support all those things so when you start building your recipes you take a little of this a little of that and you mix it all together well when you look around you say wow look there's this big bag of a VHS let me plop that in that solves a big part of my problems that I have to speed to integrate speed to deploy and the operational views that I need to run this so that was 11 years about reference architectures yeah absolutely so you know they came with a full slate of reference textures already the out there and ready to go that fit our needs so it's very very easy for us to integrate those into our recipes what do you guys think about all the multi vendor interoperability conversations that have been going on choice has been a big part of multi-cloud in terms of you know customers want choice they didn't you know they'll put a workload in the cloud that works but this notion of choice and interoperability is become a big conversation it is and I think our approach and that's why we talk to customers is let's let's speed and be risk of that decision making process and how do we do that because the interoperability is key you're not just putting it's not just a single vendor we're talking you know many many vendors I mean think about the average number of cloud application as a customer uses a business and enterprise business today you know it's it's above 30 it's it's skyrocketing and so what we do and we look at it from an interoperability approach is how do things interoperate we test it out we validate it we build a reference architecture it says these are the critical design elements now let's build one with aviatrix and show how this works with aviatrix and I think the the important part there though is the automation piece that we add to it in visibility so I think the visibility is what's what I see lacking across the industry today and the cloud needed that's been a big topic okay in terms of aviatrix as you guys see them coming in they're one of the ones that are emerging and the new brands emerging but multi-cloud you still got the old guard incumbents with huge footprints how our customers dealing with that that kind of component and dealing with both of them yeah I mean where we have customers that are ingrained with a particular vendor and you know we have partnerships with many vendors so our objective is to provide the solution that meets that client and you they all want multi vendor they all want interoperability correct all right so I got to ask you guys a question while we were defining day two operations what does that mean I mean you guys are looking at the big business and technical components of architecture what does day to Operations mean what's the definition of that yeah so I think from our perspective my experience we you know day to operations whether it's it's not just the you know the orchestration piece and setting up and let it a lot of automate and have some you know change control you're looking at this from a data perspective how do I support this ongoing and make it easy to make changes as we evolve the the the cloud is very dynamic the the nature of how the fast is expanding the number of features is astonish trying to keep up to date with a number of just networking capabilities and services that are added so I think day to operation starts with a fundable understanding of you know building out supporting a customer's environments and making it the automation piece easy from from you know a distance I think yeah and you know taking that to the next level of being able to enable customers to have catalog items that they can pick and choose hey I need this network connectivity from this cloud location back to this on pram and being able to have that automated and provisioned just simply by ordering it for the folks watching out there guys take a minute to explain as you guys are in the trenches doing a lot of good work what are some of the engagement that you guys get into how does that progress what is that what's what happens do they call you up and say hey I need some multi-cloud or you're already in there I mean take us through why how someone can engage to use a global si to come in and make this thing happen what's looks like typical engagement look like yeah so from our perspective we typically have a series of workshops in a methodology that we kind of go along the journey number one we have a foundational approach and I don't mean foundation meaning the network foundation that's a very critical element we got a factor in security we've got a factor in automation so we think about foundation we do a workshop that starts with education a lot of times we'll go in and we'll just educate the customer what is VP she's sharing you know what is a private Lincoln or how does that impact your business we have customers I want to share services out in an ecosystem with other customers and partners well there's many ways to accomplish that so our goal is to you know understand those requirements and then build that strategy with them thoughts Georgia yeah I mean I'm one of the guys that's down in the weeds making things happen so I'm not the guy on the front line interfacing with the customers every day but we have a similar approach you know we have a consulting practice that will go out and and apply their practices to see what those and when do you parachute in yeah and when I then is I'm on the back end working with our offering development leads for the networking so we understand or seeing what customers are asking for and we're on the back end developing the solutions that integrate with our own offerings as well as enable other customers to just deploy quickly to beep their connectivity needs it so the patterns are similar right final question for you guys I want to ask you to paint a picture of what success looks like and you know the name customers didn't forget in reveal kind of who they are but what does success look like in multi-cloud as you paint a picture for the folks here and watching on the live stream it's someone says hey I want to be multi-cloud I got to have my operations agile I want full DevOps I want programmability security built in from day zero what does success look like yeah I think success looks like this so when you're building out a network the network is a harder thing to change than some other aspects of cloud so what we think is even if you're thinking about that second cloud which we have most of our customers are on to public clouds today they might be dabbling in that as you build that network foundation that architecture that takes in consideration where you're going and so once we start building that reference architecture out that shows this is how to sit from a multi cloud perspective not a single cloud and let's not forget our branches let's not forget our data centers let's not forget how all this connects together because that's how we define multi-cloud it's not just in the cloud it's on Prem and it's off from and so collectively I think the key is also is that we provide them an hld you got to start with a high level design that can be tweaked as you go through the journey but you got to give a solid structural foundation and that that networking which we think most customers think as not not the network engineers but as an afterthought we want to make that the most critical element before you start the journey Jorge from your seed how do you success look for you so you know it starts out on these journeys often start out people not even thinking about what is gonna happen what what their network needs are when they start their migration journey to the cloud so I want this success to me looks like them being able to end up not worrying about what's happening in the network when they move to the cloud good point guys great insight thanks for coming on share and pen I've got a round of applause the global system integrators Hey [Applause] [Music] okay welcome back from the live feed I'm chef for with the cube Steve Eleni CEO of aviatrix my co-host our next panel is the aviatrix certified engineers also known as aces this is the folks that are certified their engineering they're building these new solutions please welcome Toby Foster min from Attica Stacy linear from Teradata and Jennifer Reid with Victor Davis to the stage I was just gonna I was just gonna rip you guys see where's your jackets and Jen's got the jacket on okay good love the aviatrix aces pile of gear they're above the clouds towards a new heights that's right so guys aviatrix aces love the name I think it's great certified this is all about getting things engineered so there's a level of certification I want to get into that but first take us through the day in the life of an ace and just to point out Stacey's a squad leader so he's like a Squadron Leader Roger and leader yeah Squadron Leader so he's got a bunch of aces underneath him but share your perspective day-in-the-life Jennifer will start with you sure so I have actually a whole team that works for me both in the in the North America both in the US and in Mexico and so I'm eagerly working to get them certified as well so I can become a squad leader myself but it's important because one of the the critical gaps that we've found is people having the networking background because they're you graduate from college and you have a lot of computer science background you can program you've got Python but now working in packets they just don't get and so just taking them through all the processes that it's really necessary to understand when you're troubleshooting is really critical mm-hmm and because you're gonna get an issue where you need to figure out where exactly is that happening on the network you know is my my issue just in the VP C's and on the instance side is a security group or is it going on print and this is something actually embedded within Amazon itself I mean I should troubleshot an issue for about six months going back and forth with Amazon and it was the vgw VPN because they were auto-scaling on two sides and we ended up having to pull out the Cisco's and put in aviatrix so I could just say okay it's fixed and I actually actually helped the application teams get to that and get it solved yeah but I'm taking a lot of junior people and getting them through that certification process so they can understand and see the network the way I see the network I mean look I've been doing this for 25 years when I got out when I went in the Marine Corps that's what I did and coming out the network is still the network but people don't get the same training they get they got in the 90s it's just so easy just write some software they work takes care of itself yes he'll be we'll come back to that I want to come back to that problem solve with Amazon but Toby I think the only thing I have to add to that is that it's always the network fault as long as I've been in network have always been the network's fault sure and I'm even to this day you know it's still the network's fault and part of being a network guy is that you need to prove when it is and when it's not your fault and that means you need to know a little bit about a hundred different things to make that and now you've got a full stack DevOps you got to know a lot more times another hundred and these times are changing they see your squadron leader I get that right what is what is a squadron leader first can you describe what it is I think it probably just leading all the network components of it but are they from my perspective when to think about what you asked them was it's about no issues and no escalation soft my day is like that's a good outcome that's a good day it's a good day Jennifer you mentioned the Amazon thing this brings up a good point you know when you have these new waves come in you have a lot of new things newly use cases a lot of the finger-pointing it's that guys problem that girls problem so what is how do you solve that and how do you get the young guns up to speed is there training is that this is where the certification comes in those where the certification is really going to come in I know when we we got together at reinvent one of the the questions that that we had with Stephen the team was what what should our certification look like you know she would just be teaching about what aviatrix troubleshooting brings to bear but what should that be like and I think Toby and I were like no no no that's going a little too high we need to get really low because the the better someone can get at actually understanding what actually happening in the network and and where to actually troubleshoot the problem how to step back each of those processes because without that it's just a big black box and they don't know you know because everything is abstracted in Amazon Internet and Azure and Google is substracted and they have these virtual gateways they have VPNs that you just don't have the logs on it's you just don't know and so then what tools can you put in front of them of where they can look because there are full logs well as long as they turned on the flow logs when they built it you know and there's like each one of those little things that well if they'd had decided to do that when they built it it's there but if you can come in later to really supplement that with training to actual troubleshoot and do a packet capture here as it's going through then teaching them how to read that even yeah Toby we were talking before he came on up on stage about your career you've been networking all your time and then you know you're now mentoring a lot of younger people how is that going because the people who come in fresh they don't have all the old war stories they don't know you talk about you know that's dimmer fault I walk in Mayr feet in the snow when I was your age I mean it's so easy now right they say what's your take on how you train the young P so I've noticed two things one is that they are up to speed a lot faster in generalities of networking they can tell you what a network is in high school level now where I didn't learn that too midway through my career and they're learning it faster but they don't necessarily understand why it's that way or you know everybody thinks that it's always slash 24 for a subnet and they don't understand why you can break it down smaller why it's really necessary so the the ramp up speed is much faster for these guys that are coming in but they don't understand why and they need some of that background knowledge to see where it's coming from and why is it important and that's old guys that's where we thrive Jennifer you mentioned you you got in from the Marines health spa when you got into networking how what was it like then and compare it now most like we've heard earlier static versus dynamic don't be static cuz back then you just said the network you got a perimeter yeah no there was no such thing ya know so back in the day I mean I mean we had banyan vines for email and you know we had token ring and I had to set up token ring networks and figure out why that didn't work because how many of things were actually sharing it but then actually just cutting fiber and running fiber cables and dropping them over you know shelters to plug them in and oh crap they swung it too hard and shattered it now I gotta be great polished this thing and actually shoot like to see if it works I mean that was the network current five cat 5 cables to run an Ethernet you know and then from that just said network switches dumb switches like those were the most common ones you had then actually configuring routers and you know logging into a Cisco router and actually knowing how to configure that and it was funny because I had gone all the way up and was a software product manager for a while so I've gone all the way up the stack and then two and a half three years ago I came across to to work with entity group that became Victor Davis but we went to help one of our customers Avis and it was like okay so we need to fix the network okay I haven't done this in 20 years but all right let's get to it you know because it really fundamentally does not change it's still the network I mean I've had people tell me well you know when we go to containers we will not have to worry about the network and I'm like yeah you don't I do and then with this within the program abilities it really interesting so I think this brings up the certification what are some of the new things that people should be aware of that come in with the aviatrix ace certification what are some of the highlights can you guys share some of the some of the highlights around the certifications I think some of the importance is that it's it doesn't need to be vendor specific for network generality or basic networking knowledge and instead of learning how Cisco does something or how Palo Alto does something we need to understand how and why it works as a basic model and then understand how each vendor has gone about that problem and solved it in a general that's true in multi cloud as well you can't learn how cloud networking works without understanding how AWS integer and GCP are all slightly the same but slightly different and some things work and some things don't I think that's probably the number one take I think having a certification across clouds is really valuable because we heard the global si you help the business issues what does it mean to do that is it code is that networking is it configuration is that aviatrix what is the amine oxy aviatrix is a certification but what is it about the multi cloud that makes it multi networking and multi vendor and easy answer is yes so you got to be a general let's go to your hands and all you have to be it takes experience because it's every every cloud vendor has their own certification whether that's hops and [Music] advanced networking and advanced security or whatever it might be yeah they can take the test but they have no idea how to figure out what's wrong with that system and the same thing with any certification but it's really getting your hands in there and actually having to troubleshoot the problems you know actually work the problem you know and calm down it's going to be okay I mean because I don't know how many calls I've been on or even had aviatrix join me on it's like okay so everyone calm down let's figure out what's happening it's like we've looked at that screen three times looking at it again it's not going to solve that problem right but at the same time you know remaining calm but knowing that it really is I'm getting a packet from here to go over here it's not working so what could be the problem you know and actually stepping them through those scenarios but that's like you only get that by having to do it you know and seeing it and going through it and then I have a question so we you know I just see it we started this program maybe six months ago we're seeing a huge amount of interest I mean we're oversubscribed on all the training sessions we've got people flying from around the country even with coronavirus flying to go to Seattle to go to these events were oversubscribed a good is that watching leader would put there yeah something that you see in your organizations are you recommending that to people do you see I mean I'm just I would guess I'm surprised I'm not surprised but I'm really surprised by the demand if you would of this multi-cloud network certification because it really isn't anything like that is that something you guys can comment on or do you see the same things in your organization's I say from my side because we operate in the multi cloud environment so it really helps an official for us I think I would add that networking guys have always needed to use certifications to prove that they know what they know it's not good enough to say yeah I know IP addresses or I know how a network works and a couple little check marks or a little letters buying helps give you validity so even in our team we can say hey you know we're using these certifications to know that you know enough of the basics enough of the understandings that you have the tools necessary right so okay I guess my final question for you guys is why an eighth certification is relevant and then second part is share what the livestream folks who aren't yet a certified or might want to jump in to be AVH or certified engineers why is it important so why is it relevant and why shouldn't someone want to be an ace-certified I'm used to right engineer I think my views a little different I think certification comes from proving that you have the knowledge not proving that you get a certification to get no I mean they're backwards so when you've got the training and the understanding and the you use that to prove and you can like grow your certification list with it versus studying for a test to get a certification and have no understanding it okay so that who is the right person that look at this is saying I'm qualified is it a network engineer is it a DevOps person what's your view you know is it a certain you know I think cloud is really the answer it's the as we talked like the edge is getting eroded so is the network definition getting eroded we're getting more and more of some network some DevOps some security lots and lots of security because network is so involved in so many of them that's just the next progression I don't say I expend that to more automation engineers because we have those nails probably well I think that the training classes themselves are helpful especially the entry-level ones for people who may be quote-unquote cloud architects but I've never done anything and networking for them to understand why we need those things to really work whether or not they go through to eventually get a certification is something different but I really think fundamentally understanding how these things work it makes them a better architect makes some better application developer but even more so as you deploy more of your applications into the cloud really getting an understanding even from our people who've tradition down on prime networking they can understand how that's going to work in the cloud too well I know we got just under 30 seconds left but I want to get one more question than just one more for the folks watching that are you may be younger that don't have that networking training from your experiences each of you can answer why is it should they know about networking what's the benefit what's in it for them motivate them share some insights and why they should go a little bit deeper in networking Stacey we'll start with you we'll go down let's say it's probably fundamental right if you want to deliver solutions no we're going use the very top I would say if you fundamental of an operating system running on a machine how those machines talk together as a fundamental change is something that starts from the base and work your way up right well I think it's a challenge because you've come from top-down now you're gonna start looking from bottom up and you want those different systems to cross communicate and say you've built something and you're overlapping IP space not that that doesn't happen but how can I actually make that still operate without having to reappear e-platform it's like those challenges like those younger developers or sis engineers can really start to get their hands around and understand those complexities and bring that forward in their career they got to know the how the pipes are working you guys know what's going some plumbing that's right and they gotta know how it works I had a code it it's right awesome thank you guys for great insights ace certain ABS your certified engineers also known as aces give a round of applause thank you okay all right that concludes my portion thank you Steve thanks for have Don thank you very much that was fantastic everybody round of applause for John for you yeah so great event great event I'm not gonna take long we got we've got lunch outside for that for the people here just a couple of things just call to action right so we saw the aces you know for those of you out on the stream here become a certified right it's great for your career it's great for not knowledge is is fantastic it's not just an aviatrix thing it's gonna teach you about cloud networking multi-cloud networking with a little bit of aviatrix exactly what the Cisco CCIE program was for IP network that type of the thing that's number one second thing is is is is learn right so so there's a there's a link up there for the four to join the community again like I started this this is a community this is the kickoff to this community and it's a movement so go to what a v8 community aviatrix comm starting a community a multi cloud so you know get get trained learn I'd say the next thing is we're doing over a hundred seminars in across the United States and also starting into Europe soon will come out and will actually spend a couple hours and talk about architecture and talk about those beginning things for those of you on the you know on the livestream in here as well you know we're coming to a city near you go to one of those events it's a great way to network with other people that are in the industry as well as to start to learn and get on that multi-cloud journey and then I'd say the last thing is you know we haven't talked a lot about what aviatrix does here and that's intentional we want you you know leaving with wanting to know more and schedule get with us in schedule a multi our architecture workshop session so we we sit out with customers and we talk about where they're at in that journey and more importantly where they're going and define that end state architecture from networking compute storage everything and everything you heard today every panel kept talking about architecture talking about operations those are the types of things that we solve we help you define that canonical architecture that system architecture that's yours so for so many of our customers they have three by five plotted lucid charts architecture drawings and it's the customer name slash aviatrix arc network architecture and they put it on their whiteboard that's what what we and that's the most valuable thing they get from us so this becomes their twenty-year network architecture drawing that they don't do anything without talking to us and look at that architecture that's what we do in these multi hour workshop sessions with customers and that's super super powerful so if you're interested definitely call us and let's schedule that with our team so anyway I just want to thank everybody on the livestream thank everybody here hopefully it was it was very useful I think it was and joined the movement and for those of you here join us for lunch and thank you very much [Applause] [Music] you

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. HOLLOWAY ALTO, California It is a cube conversation. >> Hi, and welcome to the Cube studios for another cube conversation where we go in depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the tech industry. I'm your host today, Peter Boris. One of the biggest challenges that every enterprise faces is how best to focus attention on the most important assets that are driving or facilitating that drive the digital business and digital business transformation. There's been a lot of emphasis over the last 50 years in tech on the hardware assets, but increasingly we need to look at the elements of it that are actually creating net new value within a business now, maybe the people, the services and the data that make digital business possible. And that requires that we rethink our approach is to how we actually manage, conceive of and monitor those key assets and is likely to lead to some very interesting unification Tze over the next few years, especially in SEC ups and neck cops now and have that conversation got a great guest today. Sanjay Moon. She is the vice president, product management, that net scout Technologies. Sanjay, welcome to the >> Cube. Thank you, Peter. Thank you. >> So, Sanjay, I said a lot upfront. But before we get into that, tell us a little bit about Net Scout. >> Thank you, Peter, for the introduction. Net Scout is a smart data company. Net Scout has three decades of leadership and innovation in troubleshooting monitoring and securing it based networks. We are deployed in 90% off the Fortune 500 companies and 90% off the top communication service providers. World White. We have 50% market teacher In each of the three segments that we playing. Where is the next biggest competitor? We have has less than 5%. Those three areas are number one network and application performance monitoring for hybrid cloud infrastructure for enterprises, D does and on security for enterprise and service providers and service assurance for service providers, which includes mobile operators, cable providers as well as I speak. Today we operate in 50 plus countries worldwide. We have 25 100 plus employees and 500 plus pattern store credit. >> Impressive story. Let's get right to the issue, though, and how Net scout is actually participating in some of these crucial transformations. I mentioned upfront that one of the biggest challenges that every enterprise has is to focus Maura their attention on those digital assets that are actually driving change and new sources of value named of the data, the services and the devices and the people, the applications or people that use those. So one >> of >> the challenges that we've had is that, ah, focus on devices leads to a focus on certain classes of data that are mainly improved or focus on improving the productivity of devices. Give us a background and how that's what that means. >> Let me in to do the concept of smart data that's that's born out ofthe nets, calibrated with smart data. Next called Pioneer. The leverage off Wired ate our package data three decades back that drives over ingenious portfolio that drives net ops and cloud tops. S i r. Adapt to service intelligence. This is a smart data that comes out ofthe packets with S I smart data. We uniquely converge application and network performance monitoring you are customers Toro visibility across application tears and two and networks and diverse data center locations. >> So just toe pick up on that moving away from a log focus, which is again mainly, Let's improve the productivity of the device. We're moving in a sigh, which is focus on Let's improve the productivity of the connection in the application. >> Absolutely absolute. And we'll talk a little bit more about long. Let's talk about Log and Net flew other sources of data that folks have gravitated towards, which is not there, not there, not authority to by any means. Let's say log data, for example, this log data, you know, as soon as a threat actor, for example, gets access to your systems. The first thing the protector will do is to turn off flogging are doing verse changed the log days, change the cyst, log messaging itself. Let's take a look at net flow data. For example, Net flow data number one Problem is, it's not Doesn't have layers. Seven. Intelligence, innit? Number two. It's not generated by all the devices in the network. For example, the Coyote devices do not generate any kind of flow data, so only data that authoritative and that comes with high fidelity is packet or wire data. That's one element off of smart data that we have the other element of smart data comes from our arbor portfolio. Arbor products are deployed in 400 plus tier one operators, mobile operators and service providers worldwide. And as such, we see 1/3 of the Internet traffic to our strategically located. Sensors in the service provider corps were able to generate another type of smart data that we call Atlas Intelligence feed R A F in sharp air for it. Plus intelligence Feed essentially tracks cyber reputation across domains across joe locations and across user identities. The combination of the A S I smart data that is generated from the core of the hybrid cloud infrastructure. Let's call it intranet and F Smart data that is generated from the Internet Corps gives Net Scout a unique data set combination that's unparalleled in the marketplace and makes us perhaps Lee, one of the food vendors who can drive a consolidated visibility architectures across net ops, cloud ups and second >> Okay, So let's turn that into against very practical things for folks, because what it has historically done is by focusing on individual devices or classes of devices and the data that those devices generate, they end up with a panoply Ah, wide arrangement of security tools that are each good at optimizing those devices with those, he said, they may not necessarily be a forte tive, but it's difficult to weave that into a consolidated, unified SEC ops Net ops overall, not just architecture but platform for performing the work crucial work of sustaining your digital business infrastructure. How does smart data translate into unified operation >> is appoint Peter? Thank you. That's a very good point. So let me give an example and talk about the customers that we have deployed our smart data, our hybrid cloud infrastructure. This is a typical Fortune 500 where we are deployed. Next card is deployed as the hybrid cloud monitoring infrastructure, and the networks in the club cloud upside. Typically, you will see this type of organization has one tool to cover the entire hybrid cloud monitoring infrastructure across their entire portfolio, whether it is on Prem, whether it's in the cloud, whether it's in the core location facility. But when you look at the SEC locks and the security side, the story is completely different. The same organization, the same Enterprise customer, has 25 to 30 different disparate display tools As a matter of fact, analysts are saying today that a typical Fortune 500 the US has 70 disparate security tools. Why is that the case? Why is it that on the net tops and cloud upside, they need 11 tool net scout, for example? But in the second up there, 70 different products. The reason is not only smart data but also smart architecture. So what? We have seen what we have done over the past three decades, We have designed this two tier architecture that generates Margarita. The dear one is our distributed instrumentation of sense of framework, which we call in Finnish Stream or the Stream. This is the distributor sensor framework that is deployed in the hybrid cloud infrastructure that generates the smart data. And then we had the centralized Analytics layer, which is our ingenious platform that essentially correlates data across the hybrid cloud infrastructure and provide customers complete visibility across the portfolio off the data centers. On the second upside, security side security is roughly 1 10 to 15 years old. Security tried to emulate the studio model as well, but the security industry failed. In doing that, nobody could design this distributed sensor instrumentation cost effectively tto make violate our feasible for analytics with the result they migrated to. As you said, this subpar sources of data like CeCe log like net flow. And today they put all the emphasis on the analytics layer with the result. They need one tool for use case or one vendor per use case on the second offside. And that's why you see the two proliferation because they don't have this distributed sensor framework that will make violate our package data feasible for the analytics lately. >> And I want I want to build on something you're saying because, uh, the it's a It's a misperception that all resources and all work of digital business and technology is going to end up in a central crowd location. The cloud really is an architecture form or broad distribution of data and work, which means, ultimately, that if we don't deal with this proliferation security tools now we're going tow. Probably have an even greater explosion in the number of security tools, which will mohr radically diminish or ability to establish new classes of options and digital business. >> Very good point. As a matter of fact, just a couple of years back, the average number of tools was 40 in in a SEC cops portfolio on enterprise has in the U. S. To date 70 it could go 200. But if you look at the risk profile, well, this profile has stayed the same, are in and make mint. Many cases deteriorated, right? What we found is the tool that a number of tools is going up. The cost of breaches going up the third. The number of breaches are going up, and at the same time, the number of analysts is always and Earth. So in short, high investments on the security side failed to reduce risk. So the risk and investment factor both are going in the north bound go, both are going up. So how do you control that? How do you make them come down? The only way? Smart data on a smart platform on a smart analytics later. >> Yeah. Again, let me emphasize this crucial point because it's one of things that we've seen in our conversation with clients is, ah, proliferation of tools. Proliferation of data leads to a proliferation of tasks and response responsibilities within a business, and you end up with more human failures of consequence. So by bringing all these things together, you end up with smarter data, smarter platform, simpler operations, more unified operations and get greater leverage. So so, let's talk then about ultimately, how should a business What's the road map? What's the next two or three things that an enterprise needs to do to start bringing these to start unifying these resources and generating the simplicity so that you open up greater strategic options for how you configure your digital business? >> That's a very good point. So >> two things we talked about already one is smart data relying on smart data, which comes from wide ate our package data. And the second is smart, smart architecture, which comprises of this two tier architecture with distributed instrumentation and centralized analytics. What happens when you do that is the first thing is early warning detection. What we have realized, Peter, is that if you look at the traditional kill chain in Lockheed Martin's kill chain, our miter mortal that people are using now traditional reconnaissance weaponization shin as well as ex filtration, we have seen that if you rely, if you generate analytics based on packet date are smart data, which we do as a net scow. You can detect these phases much earlier than if you rely on device data. Net floor, sis log. So what I call day minus not day zero, but day minus so leveraging the smart data and smart architecture. Er, we're able tto detect these threats or compromises much earlier than a traditional kill chain more than lot of miter models, >> but But again, the reason why is because we're looking at patterns in the traffic. >> We're looking at behavioral patterns in the traffic. That's correct. Let me go little bit more technical, if you will, were looking at transactions at the DNA's level, transactions at the CP level or at the active directly level that happened much earlier than when electoral movement or a reconnaissance is detected. This happens much earlier because we have the smart data, the wide ADA that enables us to do this early warning detection, >> get more visibility to source as opposed to the target. >> That's correct. The second thing that happens with US smart architecture, the two tier architecture is the consolidation of fuse case. We talked about it a little bit, so today if you want in our in our hybrid cloud scenario that we the next card is deployed in Fortune five hundreds. Over the past 23 decades, our customers have moved from private cloud infrastructure. First they had the core righty. Then they moved Private cloud. You know, I am Francisco. Then they moved echolocation clinics and others. And then they moved also to public cloud. All the workloads are migrating and everywhere we did not make any change to our instrumentation there. Can you believe it? No changes You only changes we made was in the analytics layer to take care of the news cases. So with the result, we could consolidate multiple whose case is in the cloud monitoring in tow. One platform, the smart platform that smart data. Now we're building that value into security with the smart platform and smart data that we talked about. So the consolidation of use cases on the security side is the second advantage other than the early warning detection that we talked about. >> So this has got to improve. Detection has got intrude. Management's gonna improve. Forensics. If I got that right, >> made a good point. And forensics we should talk about a little bit more. Perhaps the second set of things that we're doing is we have done is consolidate in the SEC upside forensics and detection. So let me explain that a little bit more. If you look at a typical enterprise today, they use Seymour security information and even management platforms to correlate data from multiple sources. So in the event off a seam alert, off alert generated best SIM platform forensics teams need to determine what happened and what systems were impacted. Essentially the what when, how, where off, the off the alert or the compromise that has been detected today. As we said, security teams are not using packet data at all but foreign. 16. In orderto validate that alert, they need toe access sessions. They need to access packets belonging to that Ellen, but they cannot today because none of the devices none of the security platforms is using violator in the first place. So what the security teams are doing? Forensic analysts. They're leveraging devices like via shark and tracking investigations with spreadsheets. This is delaying the investigation time. As you know today, it's well known that this cause is alert, fatigue and 50% of the alerts that are going to the seam today are disregarded by the security analysts. With the result, the real threats are getting unabated, and enterprises come to know about a security breach from the media rather than from their own IT department. >> Sanjay. So we've had a great conversation talking about how smart data smart platform is going to lead to greater unification of tasks, people, responsibilities and set ups and net tops and some of the it impacts on eh enterprises Overall response stance both from a detection, management and forensic standpoint. So what's going on? Thank you very much for being on the cue. Sanjay Moon. She Thank you. Thank you. And thanks again for joining us for the Cube conversation. We've been Sanjay Moon, she of Net scout technology. I'm Peter Burke's. See you next time

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCube, covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Well welcome back here at the Sands expos. We continue our coverage here on theCube of AWS re:Invent. We said about 40,000 attendees this week. We're just off the show floor, it is been jam packed, with a lot of energy, all day today. Justin Warren and John Walls we're joined up by Ramin Sayar who is the President, CEO of Sumo Logic. Ramin, how are you are doing. >> Good, thanks for having me back today. >> You bet, always good to have you back on theCube. You made some news, had an announcement yesterday that kind of takes your AWS linkage or partnership to a new level. Tell us a little bit about that. >> Yeah, so in short, you know we've been partnering with Amazon for well over eight years. We've been born and bred in the Cloud as a multi tenant service. And, over the years we've been working on a variety of ways to improve some operational best practices, not just innovations and products, and that's led us to really push Amazon to do more in security. Because, the security, posture, practices, understanding in the cloud world, is fundamentally different than that on prem in the traditional world. >> Yeah. So one of the key points of the announcement was some efforts that we're continuing with Amazon around security and bringing cloud first security posture, best practices as well as integrations, some things we've already announced, as well some things I may hypothetically be announced tomorrow. >> Okay, So tell us about that discussion. Alright, you say its been going on for some time. The need to bring a higher level of awareness or concern, however you want to word it, to security in the public cloud. I mean, how's that evolved and then where's that going to go? >> Well I guess, there's two ways looking at it. You know, one is, its really centered on the fact that there's a big movement right now for the lift and shift of workloads to the cloud. >> Yeah. >> And you can't bring along all the baggage that's associated with these workloads, because you're modernizing these applications, and fundamentally it requires different ways of instrumenting, collecting, analyzing and last and definitely not least, the tsunami of data that's being generated because of these distribute applications. You can't take the old way of writing rules to presuppose events and security issues in this new world. So we've been pushing Amazon really, really hard to build practices. So a competency was one of the things we first started with them, right? And that competency led us to understand it's not just about guard duty, it's not just about some simple best practices, but how we bring the broader community together. So, we're taking this on the road with them, bringing the MSPs or managed service providers, as well as managed security service providers together and building this integrated practice to them, and with them, so they can take it out as a channel. What are you expecting people to get out of this. So when you've this roadshow and you've taken this show on the road and you've got all this MSPs to sign up to this way of doing things. Where do you see them taking from where they are today and where they will end up at the end of this. >> Yes as simply put, managed service providers or managed security providers, are one vehicle. >> A lot of this is actually, teaching the practitioners, in terms of CSO's, security operations, and security analysts. Like what should you consider, what should you use in the cloud. So it's not just about VPC flow logs, it's not just about AWS config or guard duty, but the combination of what the Amazon does or AWS does, at the infrastructure level, coupled with what Sumo does at the security analytics level is what delivers that best in class cloud service for security. >> Right. >> And so it's educating 'em on that first. >> Second piece is, really pushing that responsibility not just as a security operations or a security analyst team, but upstream into the development teams. And so that's part of this whole notion that Sumo's been aggressively pushing called DevSecOps. It's a responsibility everybody in the organization, not just the people downstream that get the hangover when a breach happens. >> Right. >> Right? >> Feels like we've been talking about that idea of embedding bending security into, well, security is everyone's issue, and that we need to move it upstream, and you shift it left as a lot of people like to say. So, where we you think we are on that journey? So we've been talking about it for a little while. It feels like we still actually right at the beginning of that kind of movement. >> So, it's funny you say that, 'cause we're thinking about this before this event and categorically we see in born in the clouds types of companies, they have a security first principle mind already. And so, naturally as, they just look at it as another data source that they have to manage, not as a burden. And so, that's a difference with traditional security companies, the enterprise, who feel like, oh great my developers are going over there and now it's a burden for me to manage that. So, I think from the born and bred cloud perspective, adoption is super high. The ones that are doing the lift and shift now, we're trying to get the CSO's to be the champions. So we enter a lot of times there versus just the devops students. And so as a result, that's helping us educate the CSO's to take it down to the sock or the analyst so they can understand, what should I even use with Amazon and how does Sumo support that? >> Yeah, so it sounds like a lot of these more traditional companies are doing, in the same way that the cloud has changed the way developers actually write code and use infrastructure, it sounds like the security practices that have been born in the cloud are actually starting to make their way back up or upstream if you will into this more traditional companies and they're cloudifying the way they run things. Which is an interesting parallel to the what we're seeing with the infrastructure where it's becoming more hybrid. So we're kind of getting this hybrid security model of the old way of doing things and the cloud way of doing things. >> Yeah, and I think the interesting piece of that is, it's profoundly changing the operating model. Right, historically all this teams been siloed. They use their silo tools for security over here, for monitoring over there, for troubleshooting over here, right, for building and release systems over there. And this new way of deploying, building, running, securing workloads and more importantly cloud services now, it's fundamentally broke down those barriers. And so by nature, what's it done is, forced those team to either come together to collaborate, in a lot of cases what we say in accounts is also, there's a single throat to choke. Person that's owning that service owns and end to end. Right, and so our platform uniquely helps all those different constituents across the organization really share and collaborate, but also rely on one vendor, and one platform that spans not just obviously here with Amazon and Amazon Web Services, but also GCP, Azure, and 40% of the data we collect every day comes from on prem. We give them that single platform that spans everything that they need. >> What is the, if there is a fundamental problem that when somebody who has, they look at their migration and they say, okay public cloud that's where we're going, from a security stand point is it that, they are going to a space that they don't have total control over or they are going to a space, now this is the way we used to do it, and now you're going to, you're coming at it from a different side. I don't know if it that's by-end, I mean what is the kind of like the-- >> So I think it comes down to three things. I think one is mindset change. So we look for progressive CSO's that believe in the vision of fundamentally doing things different. Two is debunking the myth. And I say that because SIM has been a dirty word for years. Useless services and technology and vendors that have been pimping SIM for years and have not delivered on the value. >> Don't minse words, tell me what you think Ramin. >> No, been all seriousness, and so we have a job to clean up that dirty work. So with the cloud SIM and what we're doing on top of Amazon in supporting other cloud providers, we're trying to make it sexy again. But more importantly, make it real, deliver value through our cloud SIM. And the third is, we're trying to break down the silos. It's not just a security operations schemes anymore. And they understand that, in order for them to have that holistic control, because at the end of the day it's about control, they need to have accountability upstream and they need to be partnering with the devops teams. And so that's the value we bring because the devops team, the cyber liability engineers, the tech ops, platform engineering are all using Sumo. So now we can connect the CSO to them and they can have one unified way. Share it lights tiered model for data, they can have access control, predictable cost and then more importantly going forward allows them to start analyze data, different values, different sets as they need to through a consumption model. >> You say you're trying the SIM sexy again, which is an interesting way of putting it. What are you seeing customers using Sumo logic for that really gets your intent? What's something you think would be a thing that people here in this show should really pay attention to? Why should people use it? >> So are you a gamer? >> I have been known to game on occasion. >> Do you play Pokemon or Fortnite? >> No, I keep getting pestered to get Fortnite, but no, I'm an old schooler. I like Borderlands 2. >> So you do, okay. So I'll give two different contrasting examples in the gaming industry for example. So Pokemon, guess who their average age user is? >> About eight? >> No. >> No? >> Kids. Young kids. And so for them it's about protecting identity. Right, and protecting privacy of it's users, kids for parents. So we help them with privacy and controls. You compare that with Fortnight. We help fortify Fortnight because Fortnight needs to look at the metadata, what's going on in the game. Right, they're looking at all the actions from the chat, from the text, from the things that were unplanned in the game, to get a sense of how the real game experience is. They're both securing but in different ways. You compare/contrast that to outside of gaming, media, online retailers, what do we help them with? They have audit responsibilities because they take payments for PCI. They have health care responsibilities, because HIPAA compliance. They have regulatory responsibilities with GDPR. Right? And so we help all of them with the audit and compliance, but also we give them the threat and investigation capabilities when and if they have a breach or when they have an audit issue. >> So you are not a Pokemon player? >> I played Pokemon Go for a while, then I was like, I'm too busy hosting theCube. I don't have time for that. >> Ramin, thanks for being with us, we appreciate the story and wish you continued success. Sumo Logic just about 50 yards from our spot here on the floor, drawing a lot of attention in your booth. So, congratulations on that as well. >> Thanks for having me again, great seeing you guys. >> You bet. Alright, back with more here on theCube. We're at AWS re:Invent in Las Vegas. (soft alternative music)

[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] ladies and gentlemen please welcome Red Hat senior vice president of engineering Matt Hicks [Music] welcome back I hope you're enjoying your first day of summit you know for us it is a lot of work throughout the year to get ready to get here but I love the energy walking into someone on that first opening day now this morning we kick off with Paul's keynote and you saw this morning just how evolved every aspect of open hybrid cloud has become based on an open source innovation model that opens source the power and potential of open source so we really brought me to Red Hat but at the end of the day the real value comes when were able to make customers like yourself successful with open source and as much passion and pride as we put into the open source community that requires more than just Red Hat given the complexity of your various businesses the solution set you're building that requires an entire technology ecosystem from system integrators that can provide the skills your domain expertise to software vendors that are going to provide the capabilities for your solutions even to the public cloud providers whether it's on the hosting side or consuming their services you need an entire technological ecosystem to be able to support you and your goals and that is exactly what we are gonna talk about this afternoon the technology ecosystem we work with that's ready to help you on your journey now you know this year's summit we talked about earlier it is about ideas worth exploring and we want to make sure you have all of the expertise you need to make those ideas a reality so with that let's talk about our first partner we have him today and that first partner is IBM when I talk about IBM I have a little bit of a nostalgia and that's because 16 years ago I was at IBM it was during my tenure at IBM where I deployed my first copy of Red Hat Enterprise Linux for a customer it's actually where I did my first professional Linux development as well you and that work on Linux it really was the spark that I had that showed me the potential that open source could have for enterprise customers now iBM has always been a steadfast supporter of Linux and a great Red Hat partner in fact this year we are celebrating 20 years of partnership with IBM but even after 20 years two decades I think we're working on some of the most innovative work that we ever have before so please give a warm welcome to Arvind Krishna from IBM to talk with us about what we are working on Arvind [Applause] hey my pleasure to be here thank you so two decades huh that's uh you know I think anything in this industry to going for two decades is special what would you say that that link is made right Hatton IBM so successful look I got to begin by first seeing something that I've been waiting to say for years it's a long strange trip it's been and for the San Francisco folks they'll get they'll get the connection you know what I was just thinking you said 16 it is strange because I probably met RedHat 20 years ago and so that's a little bit longer than you but that was out in Raleigh it was a much smaller company and when I think about the connection I think look IBM's had a long long investment and a long being a long fan of open source and when I think of Linux Linux really lights up our hardware and I think of the power box that you were showing this morning as well as the mainframe as well as all other hardware Linux really brings that to life and I think that's been at the root of our relationship yeah absolutely now I alluded to a little bit earlier we're working on some new stuff and this time it's a little bit higher in the software stack and we have before so what do you what would you say spearheaded that right so we think of software many people know about some people don't realize a lot of the words are called critical systems you know like reservation systems ATM systems retail banking a lot of the systems run on IBM software and when I say IBM software names such as WebSphere and MQ and db2 all sort of come to mind as being some of that software stack and really when I combine that with some of what you were talking about this morning along hybrid and I think this thing called containers you guys know a little about combining the two we think is going to make magic yeah and I certainly know containers and I think for myself seeing the rise of containers from just the introduction of the technology to customers consuming at mission-critical capacities it's been probably one of the fastest technology cycles I've ever seen before look we completely agree with that when you think back to what Paul talks about this morning on hybrid and we think about it we are made of firm commitment to containers all of our software will run on containers and all of our software runs Rell and you put those two together and this belief on hybrid and containers giving you their hybrid motion so that you can pick where you want to run all the software is really I think what has brought us together now even more than before yeah and the best part I think I've liked we haven't just done the product in downstream alignment we've been so tied in our technology approach we've been aligned all the way to the upstream communities absolutely look participating upstream participating in these projects really bringing all the innovation to bear you know when I hear all of you talk about you can't just be in a single company you got to tap into the world of innovation and everybody should contribute we firmly believe that instead of helping to do that is kind of why we're here yeah absolutely now the best part we're not just going to tell you about what we're doing together we're actually going to show you so how every once you tell the audience a little bit more about what we're doing I will go get the demo team ready in the back so you good okay so look we're doing a lot here together we're taking our software and we are begging to put it on top of Red Hat and openshift and really that's what I'm here to talk about for a few minutes and then we go to show it to you live and the demo guard should be with us so it'll hopefully go go well so when we look at extending our partnership it's really based on three fundamental principles and those principles are the following one it's a hybrid world every enterprise wants the ability to span across public private and their own premise world and we got to go there number two containers are strategic to both of us enterprise needs the agility you need a way to easily port things from place to place to place and containers is more than just wrapping something up containers give you all of the security the automation the deploy ability and we really firmly believe that and innovation is the path forward I mean you got to bring all the innovation to bear whether it's around security whether it's around all of the things we heard this morning around going across multiple infrastructures right the public or private and those are three firm beliefs that both of us have together so then explicitly what I'll be doing here number one all the IBM middleware is going to be certified on top of openshift and rel and through cloud private from IBM so that's number one all the middleware is going to run in rental containers on OpenShift on rail with all the cloud private automation and deployability in there number two we are going to make it so that this is the complete stack when you think about from hardware to hypervisor to os/2 the container platform to all of the middleware it's going to be certified up and down all the way so that you can get comfort that this is certified against all the cyber security attacks that come your way three because we do the certification that means a complete stack can be deployed wherever OpenShift runs so that way you give the complete flexibility and you no longer have to worry about that the development lifecycle is extended all the way from inception to production and the management plane then gives you all of the delivery and operation support needed to lower that cost and lastly professional services through the IBM garages as well as the Red Hat innovation labs and I think that this combination is really speaks to the power of both companies coming together and both of us working together to give all of you that flexibility and deployment capabilities across one can't can't help it one architecture chart and that's the only architecture chart I promise you so if you look at it right from the bottom this speaks to what I'm talking about you begin at the bottom and you have a choice of infrastructure the IBM cloud as well as other infrastructure as a service virtual machines as well as IBM power and IBM mainframe as is the infrastructure choices underneath so you choose what what is best suited for the workload well with the container service with the open shift platform managing all of that environment as well as giving the orchestration that kubernetes gives you up to the platform services from IBM cloud private so it contains the catalog of all middle we're both IBM's as well as open-source it contains all the deployment capability to go deploy that and it contains all the operational management so things like come back up if things go down worry about auto scaling all those features that you want come to you from there and that is why that combination is so so powerful but rather than just hear me talk about it I'm also going to now bring up a couple of people to talk about it and what all are they going to show you they're going to show you how you can deploy an application on this environment so you can think of that as either a cloud native application but you can also think about it as how do you modernize an application using micro services but you don't want to just keep your application always within its walls you also many times want to access different cloud services from this and how do you do that and I'm not going to tell you which ones they're going to come and tell you and how do you tackle the complexity of both hybrid data data that crosses both from the private world to the public world and as well as target the extra workloads that you want so that's kind of the sense of what you're going to see through through the demonstrations but with that I'm going to invite Chris and Michael to come up I'm not going to tell you which one's from IBM which runs from Red Hat hopefully you'll be able to make the right guess so with that Chris and Michael [Music] so so thank you Arvind hopefully people can guess which ones from Red Hat based on the shoes I you know it's some really exciting stuff that we just heard there what I believe that I'm I'm most excited about when I look out upon the audience and the opportunity for customers is with this announcement there are quite literally millions of applications now that can be modernized and made available on any cloud anywhere with the combination of IBM cloud private and OpenShift and I'm most thrilled to have mr. Michael elder a distinguished engineer from IBM here with us today and you know Michael would you maybe describe for the folks what we're actually going to go over today absolutely so when you think about how do I carry forward existing applications how do I build new applications as well you're creating micro services that always need a mixture of data and messaging and caching so this example application shows java-based micro services running on WebSphere Liberty each of which are then leveraging things like IBM MQ for messaging IBM db2 for data operational decision manager all of which is fully containerized and running on top of the Red Hat open chip container platform and in fact we're even gonna enhance stock trader to help it understand how you feel but okay hang on so I'm a little slow to the draw sometimes you said we're gonna have an application tell me how I feel exactly exactly you think about your enterprise apps you want to improve customer service understanding how your clients feel can't help you do that okay well this I'd like to see that in action all right let's do it okay so the first thing we'll do is we'll actually take a look at the catalog and here in the IBM cloud private catalog this is all of the content that's available to deploy now into this hybrid solution so we see workloads for IBM will see workloads for other open source packages etc each of these are packaged up as helm charts that are deploying a set of images that will be certified for Red Hat Linux and in this case we're going to go through and start with a simple example with a node out well click a few actions here we'll give it a name now do you have your console up over there I certainly do all right perfect so we'll deploy this into the new old namespace and will deploy notate okay alright anything happening of course it's come right up and so you know what what I really like about this is regardless of if I'm used to using IBM clout private or if I'm used to working with open shift yeah the experience is well with the tool of whatever I'm you know used to dealing with on a daily basis but I mean you know I got to tell you we we deployed node ourselves all the time what about and what about when was the last time you deployed MQ on open shift you never I maybe never all right let's fix that so MQ obviously is a critical component for messaging for lots of highly transactional systems here we'll deploy this as a container on the platform now I'm going to deploy this one again into new worlds I'm gonna disable persistence and for my application I'm going to need a queue manager so I'm going to have it automatically setup my queue manager as well now this will deploy a couple of things what do you see I see IBM in cube all right so there's your stateful set running MQ and of course there's a couple of other components that get stood up as needed here including things like credentials and secrets and the service etc but all of this is they're out of the box ok so impressive right but that's the what I think you know what I'm really looking at is maybe how a well is this running you know what else does this partnership bring when I look at IBM cloud private windows inches well so that's a key reason about why it's not just about IBM middleware running on open shift but also IBM cloud private because ultimately you need that common management plane when you deploy a container the next thing you have to worry about is how do I get its logs how do I manage its help how do I manage license consumption how do I have a common security plan right so cloud private is that enveloping wrapper around IBM middleware to provide those capabilities in a common way and so here we'll switch over to our dashboard this is our Griffin and Prometheus stack that's deployed also now on cloud private running on OpenShift and we're looking at a different namespace we're looking at the stock trader namespace we'll go back to this app here momentarily and we can see all the different pieces what if you switch over to the stock trader workspace on open shipped yeah I think we might be able to do that here hey there it is alright and so what you're gonna see here all the different pieces of this op right there's d b2 over here I see the portfolio Java microservice running on Webster Liberty I see my Redis cash I see MQ all of these are the components we saw in the architecture picture a minute ago ya know so this is really great I mean so maybe let's take a look at the actual application I see we have a fine stock trader app here now we mentioned understanding how I feel exactly you know well I feel good that this is you know a brand new stock trader app versus the one from ten years ago that don't feel like we used forever so the key thing is this app is actually all of those micro services in addition to things like business rules etc to help understand the loyalty program so one of the things we could do here is actually enhance it with a a AI service from Watson this is tone analyzer it helps me understand how that user actually feels and will be able to go through and submit some feedback to understand that user ok well let's see if we can take a look at that so I tried to click on youth clearly you're not very happy right now here I'll do one quick thing over here go for it we'll clear a cache for our sample lab so look you guys don't actually know as Michael and I just wrote this no js' front end backstage while Arvin was actually talking with Matt and we deployed it real-time using continuous integration and continuous delivery that we have available with openshift well the great thing is it's a live demo right so we're gonna do it all live all the time all right so you mentioned it'll tell me how I'm feeling right so if we look at so right there it looks like they're pretty angry probably because our cache hadn't been cleared before we started the demo maybe well that would make me angry but I should be happy because I mean I have a lot of money well it's it's more than I get today for sure so but you know again I don't want to remain angry so does Watson actually understand southern I know it speaks like eighty different languages but well you know I'm from South Carolina to understand South Carolina southern but I don't know about your North Carolina southern alright well let's give it a go here y'all done a real real know no profanity now this is live I've done a real real nice job on this here fancy demo all right hey all right likes me now all right cool and the key thing is just a quick note right it's showing you've got a free trade so we can integrate those business rules and then decide to I do put one trade if you're angry give me more it's all bringing it together into one platform all running on open show yeah and I can see the possibilities right of we've not only deployed services but getting that feedback from our customers to understand well how well the services are being used and are people really happy with what they have hey listen Michael this was amazing I read you joining us today I hope you guys enjoyed this demo as well so all of you know who this next company is as I look out through the crowd based on what I can actually see with the sun shining down on me right now I can see their influence everywhere you know Sports is in our everyday lives and these guys are equally innovative in that space as they are with hybrid cloud computing and they use that to help maintain and spread their message throughout the world of course I'm talking about Nike I think you'll enjoy this next video about Nike and their brand and then we're going to hear directly from my twitting about what they're doing with Red Hat technology new developments in the top story of the day the world has stopped turning on its axis top scientists are currently racing to come up with a solution everybody going this way [Music] the wrong way [Music] please welcome Nike vice president of infrastructure engineering Mike witig [Music] hi everybody over the last five years at Nike we have transformed our technology landscape to allow us to connect more directly to our consumers through our retail stores through Nike comm and our mobile apps the first step in doing that was redesigning our global network to allow us to have direct connectivity into both Asia and AWS in Europe in Asia and in the Americas having that proximity to those cloud providers allows us to make decisions about application workload placement based on our strategy instead of having design around latency concerns now some of those workloads are very elastic things like our sneakers app for example that needs to burst out during certain hours of the week there's certain moments of the year when we have our high heat product launches and for those type of workloads we write that code ourselves and we use native cloud services but being hybrid has allowed us to not have to write everything that would go into that app but rather just the parts that are in that application consumer facing experience and there are other back-end systems certain core functionalities like order management warehouse management finance ERP and those are workloads that are third-party applications that we host on relevent over the last 18 months we have started to deploy certain elements of those core applications into both Azure and AWS hosted on rel and at first we were pretty cautious that we started with development environments and what we realized after those first successful deployments is that are the impact of those cloud migrations on our operating model was very small and that's because the tools that we use for monitoring for security for performance tuning didn't change even though we moved those core applications into Azure in AWS because of rel under the covers and getting to the point where we have that flexibility is a real enabler as an infrastructure team that allows us to just be in the yes business and really doesn't matter where we want to deploy different workload if either cloud provider or on-prem anywhere on the planet it allows us to move much more quickly and stay much more directed to our consumers and so having rel at the core of our strategy is a huge enabler for that flexibility and allowing us to operate in this hybrid model thanks very much [Applause] what a great example it's really nice to hear an IQ story of using sort of relish that foundation to enable their hybrid clout enable their infrastructure and there's a lot that's the story we spent over ten years making that possible for rel to be that foundation and we've learned a lot in that but let's circle back for a minute to the software vendors and what kicked off the day today with IBM IBM s one of the largest software portfolios on the planet but we learned through our journey on rel that you need thousands of vendors to be able to sport you across all of your different industries solve any challenge that you might have and you need those vendors aligned with your technology direction this is doubly important when the technology direction is changing like with containers we saw that two years ago bread had introduced our container certification program now this program was focused on allowing you to identify vendors that had those shared technology goals but identification by itself wasn't enough in this fast-paced world so last year we introduced trusted content we introduced our container health index publicly grading red hats images that form the foundation for those vendor images and that was great because those of you that are familiar with containers know that you're taking software from vendors you're combining that with software from companies like Red Hat and you are putting those into a single container and for you to run those in a mission-critical capacity you have to know that we can both stand by and support those deployments but even trusted content wasn't enough so this year I'm excited that we are extending once again to introduce trusted operations now last week we announced that cube con kubernetes conference the kubernetes operator SDK the goal of the kubernetes operators is to allow any software provider on kubernetes to encode how that software should run this is a critical part of a container ecosystem not just being able to find the vendors that you want to work with not just knowing that you can trust what's inside the container but knowing that you can efficiently run that software now the exciting part is because this is so closely aligned with the upstream technology that today we already have four partners that have functioning operators specifically Couchbase dynaTrace crunchy and black dot so right out of the gate you have security monitoring data store options available to you these partners are really leading the charge in terms of what it means to run their software on OpenShift but behind these four we have many more in fact this morning we announced over 60 partners that are committed to building operators they're taking their domain expertise and the software that they wrote that they know and extending that into how you are going to run that on containers in environments like OpenShift this really brings the power of being able to find the vendors being able to trust what's inside and know that you can run their software as efficiently as anyone else on the planet but instead of just telling you about this we actually want to show you this in action so why don't we bring back up the demo team to give you a little tour of what's possible with it guys thanks Matt so Matt talked about the concept of operators and when when I think about operators and what they do it's taking OpenShift based services and making them even smarter giving you insight into how they do things for example have we had an operator for the nodejs service that I was running earlier it would have detected the problem and fixed itself but when we look at it what really operators do when I look at it from an ecosystem perspective is for ISVs it's going to be a catalyst that's going to allow them to make their services as manageable and it's flexible and as you know maintainable as any public cloud service no matter where OpenShift is running and to help demonstrate this I've got my buddy Rob here Rob are we ready on the demo front we're ready awesome now I notice this screen looks really familiar to me but you know I think we want to give folks here a dev preview of a couple of things well we want to show you is the first substantial integration of the core OS tectonic technology with OpenShift and then the other thing is we are going to dive in a little bit more into operators and their usefulness so Rob yeah so what we're looking at here is the service catalog that you know and love and openshift and we've got a few new things in here we've actually integrated operators into the Service Catalog and I'm going to take this filter and give you a look at some of them that we have today so you can see we've got a list of operators exposed and this is the same way that your developers are already used to integrating with products they're right in your catalog and so now these are actually smarter services but how can we maybe look at that I mentioned that there's maybe a new view I'm used to seeing this as a developer but I hear we've got some really cool stuff if I'm the administrator of the console yeah so we've got a whole new side of the console for cluster administrators to get a look at under the infrastructure versus this dev focused view that we're looking at today today so let's go take a look at it so the first thing you see here is we've got a really rich set of monitoring and health status so we can see that we've got some alerts firing our control plane is up and we can even do capacity planning anything that you need to do to maintenance your cluster okay so it's it's not only for the the services in the cluster and doing things that you know I may be normally as a human operator would have to do but this this console view also gives me insight into the infrastructure itself right like maybe the nodes and maybe handling the security context is that true yes so these are new capabilities that we're bringing to open shift is the ability to do node management things like drain and unscheduled nodes to do day-to-day maintenance and then as well as having security constraints and things like role bindings for example and the exciting thing about this is this is a view that you've never been able to see before it's cross-cutting across namespaces so here we've got a number of admin bindings and we can see that they're connected to a number of namespaces and these would represent our engineering teams all the groups that are using the cluster and we've never had this view before this is a perfect way to audit your security you know it actually is is pretty exciting I mean I've been fortunate enough to be on the up and shift team since day one and I know that operations view is is something that we've you know strived for and so it's really exciting to see that we can offer that now but you know really this was a we want to get into what operators do and what they can do for us and so maybe you show us what the operator console looks like yeah so let's jump on over and see all the operators that we have installed on the cluster you can see that these mirror what we saw on the Service Catalog earlier now what we care about though is this Couchbase operator and we're gonna jump into the demo namespace as I said you can share a number of different teams on a cluster so it's gonna jump into this namespace okay cool so now what we want to show you guys when we think about operators you know we're gonna have a scenario here where there's going to be multiple replicas of a Couchbase service running in the cluster and then we're going to have a stateful set and what's interesting is those two things are not enough if I'm really trying to run this as a true service where it's highly available in persistent there's things that you know as a DBA that I'm normally going to have to do if there's some sort of node failure and so what we want to demonstrate to you is where operators combined with the power that was already within OpenShift are now coming together to keep this you know particular database service highly available and something that we can continue using so Rob what have you got there yeah so as you can see we've got our couch based demo cluster running here and we can see that it's up and running we've got three members we've got an off secret this is what's controlling access to a UI that we're gonna look at in a second but what really shows the power of the operator is looking at this view of the resources that it's managing you can see that we've got a service that's doing load balancing into the cluster and then like you said we've got our pods that are actually running the software itself okay so that's cool so maybe for everyone's benefit so we can show that this is happening live could we bring up the the Couchbase console please and keep up the openshift console both sides so what we see there we go so what we see on the on the right hand side is obviously the same console Rob was working in on the left-hand side as you can see by the the actual names of the pods that are there the the couch based services that are available and so Rob maybe um let's let's kill something that's always fun to do on stage yeah this is the power of the operator it's going to recover it so let's browse on over here and kill node number two so we're gonna forcefully kill this and kick off the recovery and I see right away that because of the integration that we have with operators the Couchbase console immediately picked up that something has changed in the environment now why is that important normally a human being would have to get that alert right and so with operators now we've taken that capability and we've realized that there has been a new event within the environment this is not something that you know kubernetes or open shipped by itself would be able to understand now I'm presuming we're gonna end up doing something else it's not just seeing that it failed and sure enough there we go remember when you have a stateful application rebalancing that data and making it available is just as important as ensuring that the disk is attached so I mean Rob thank you so much for you know driving this for us today and being here I mean you know not only Couchbase but as was mentioned by matt we also have you know crunchy dynaTrace and black duck I would encourage you all to go visit their booths out on the floor today and understand what they have available which are all you know here with a dev preview and then talk to the many other partners that we have that are also looking at operators so again rub thank you for joining us today Matt come on out okay this is gonna make for an exciting year of just what it means to consume container base content I think containers change how customers can get that I believe operators are gonna change how much they can trust running that content let's circle back to one more partner this next partner we have has changed the landscape of computing specifically with their work on hardware design work on core Linux itself you know in fact I think they've become so ubiquitous with computing that we often overlook the technological marvels that they've been able to overcome now for myself I studied computer engineering so in the late 90s I had the chance to study processor design I actually got to build one of my own processors now in my case it was the most trivial processor that you could imagine it was an 8-bit subtractor which means it can subtract two numbers 256 or smaller but in that process I learned the sheer complexity that goes into processor design things like wire placements that are so close that electrons can cut through the insulation in short and then doing those wire placements across three dimensions to multiple layers jamming in as many logic components as you possibly can and again in my case this was to make a processor that could subtract two numbers but once I was done with this the second part of the course was studying the Pentium processor now remember that moment forever because looking at what the Pentium processor was able to accomplish it was like looking at alien technology and the incredible thing is that Intel our next partner has been able to keep up that alien like pace of innovation twenty years later so we're excited have Doug Fisher here let's hear a little bit more from Intel for business wide open skies an open mind no matter the context the idea of being open almost only suggests the potential of infinite possibilities and that's exactly the power of open source whether it's expanding what's possible in business the science and technology or for the greater good which is why-- open source requires the involvement of a truly diverse community of contributors to scale and succeed creating infinite possibilities for technology and more importantly what we do with it [Music] you know what Intel one of our core values is risk-taking and I'm gonna go just a bit off script for a second and say I was just backstage and I saw a gentleman that looked a lot like Scott Guthrie who runs all of Microsoft's cloud enterprise efforts wearing a red shirt talking to Cormier I'm just saying I don't know maybe I need some more sleep but that's what I saw as we approach Intel's 50th anniversary these words spoken by our co-founder Robert Noyce are as relevant today as they were decades ago don't be encumbered by history this is about breaking boundaries in technology and then go off and do something wonderful is about innovation and driving innovation in our industry and Intel we're constantly looking to break boundaries to advance our technology in the cloud in enterprise space that is no different so I'm going to talk a bit about some of the boundaries we've been breaking and innovations we've been driving at Intel starting with our Intel Xeon platform Orion Xeon scalable platform we launched several months ago which was the biggest and mark the most advanced movement in this technology in over a decade we were able to drive critical performance capabilities unmatched agility and added necessary and sufficient security to that platform I couldn't be happier with the work we do with Red Hat and ensuring that those hero features that we drive into our platform they fully expose to all of you to drive that innovation to go off and do something wonderful well there's taking advantage of the performance features or agility features like our advanced vector extensions or avx-512 or Intel quick exist those technologies are fully embraced by Red Hat Enterprise Linux or whether it's security technologies like txt or trusted execution technology are fully incorporated and we look forward to working with Red Hat on their next release to ensure that our advancements continue to be exposed and their platform and all these workloads that are driving the need for us to break boundaries and our technology are driving more and more need for flexibility and computing and that's why we're excited about Intel's family of FPGAs to help deliver that additional flexibility for you to build those capabilities in your environment we have a broad set of FPGA capabilities from our power fish at Mac's product line all the way to our performance product line on the 6/10 strat exten we have a broad set of bets FPGAs what i've been talking to customers what's really exciting is to see the combination of using our Intel Xeon scalable platform in combination with FPGAs in addition to the acceleration development capabilities we've given to software developers combining all that together to deliver better and better solutions whether it's helping to accelerate data compression well there's pattern recognition or data encryption and decryption one of the things I saw in a data center recently was taking our Intel Xeon scalable platform utilizing the capabilities of FPGA to do data encryption between servers behind the firewall all the while using the FPGA to do that they preserve those precious CPU cycles to ensure they delivered the SLA to the customer yet provided more security for their data in the data center one of the edges in cyber security is innovation and route of trust starts at the hardware we recently renewed our commitment to security with our security first pledge has really three elements to our security first pledge first is customer first urgency we have now completed the release of the micro code updates for protection on our Intel platforms nine plus years since launch to protect against things like the side channel exploits transparent and timely communication we are going to communicate timely and openly on our Intel comm website whether it's about our patches performance or other relevant information and then ongoing security assurance we drive security into every one of our products we redesigned a portion of our processor to add these partition capability which is adding additional walls between applications and user level privileges to further secure that environment from bad actors I want to pause for a second and think everyone in this room involved in helping us work through our security first pledge this isn't something we do on our own it takes everyone in this room to help us do that the partnership and collaboration was next to none it's the most amazing thing I've seen since I've been in this industry so thank you we don't stop there we continue to advance our security capabilities cross-platform solutions we recently had a conference discussion at RSA where we talked about Intel Security Essentials where we deliver a framework of capabilities and the end that are in our silicon available for those to innovate our customers and the security ecosystem to innovate on a platform in a consistent way delivering that assurance that those capabilities will be on that platform we also talked about things like our security threat technology threat detection technology is something that we believe in and we launched that at RSA incorporates several elements one is ability to utilize our internal graphics to accelerate some of the memory scanning capabilities we call this an accelerated memory scanning it allows you to use the integrated graphics to scan memory again preserving those precious cycles on the core processor Microsoft adopted this and are now incorporated into their defender product and are shipping it today we also launched our threat SDK which allows partners like Cisco to utilize telemetry information to further secure their environments for cloud workloads so we'll continue to drive differential experiences into our platform for our ecosystem to innovate and deliver more and more capabilities one of the key aspects you have to protect is data by 2020 the projection is 44 zettabytes of data will be available 44 zettabytes of data by 2025 they project that will grow to a hundred and eighty s data bytes of data massive amount of data and what all you want to do is you want to drive value from that data drive and value from that data is absolutely critical and to do that you need to have that data closer and closer to your computation this is why we've been working Intel to break the boundaries in memory technology with our investment in 3d NAND we're reducing costs and driving up density in that form factor to ensure we get warm data closer to the computing we're also innovating on form factors we have here what we call our ruler form factor this ruler form factor is designed to drive as much dense as you can in a 1u rack we're going to continue to advance the capabilities to drive one petabyte of data at low power consumption into this ruler form factor SSD form factor so our innovation continues the biggest breakthrough and memory technology in the last 25 years in memory media technology was done by Intel we call this our 3d crosspoint technology and our 3d crosspoint technology is now going to be driven into SSDs as well as in a persistent memory form factor to be on the memory bus giving you the speed of memory characteristics of memory as well as the characteristics of storage given a new tier of memory for developers to take full advantage of and as you can see Red Hat is fully committed to integrating this capability into their platform to take full advantage of that new capability so I want to thank Paul and team for engaging with us to make sure that that's available for all of you to innovate on and so we're breaking boundaries and technology across a broad set of elements that we deliver that's what we're about we're going to continue to do that not be encumbered by the past your role is to go off and doing something wonderful with that technology all ecosystems are embracing this and driving it including open source technology open source is a hub of innovation it's been that way for many many years that innovation that's being driven an open source is starting to transform many many businesses it's driving business transformation we're seeing this coming to light in the transformation of 5g driving 5g into the networked environment is a transformational moment an open source is playing a pivotal role in that with OpenStack own out and opie NFV and other open source projects were contributing to and participating in are helping drive that transformation in 5g as you do software-defined networks on our barrier breaking technology we're also seeing this transformation rapidly occurring in the cloud enterprise cloud enterprise are growing rapidly and innovation continues our work with virtualization and KVM continues to be aggressive to adopt technologies to advance and deliver more capabilities in virtualization as we look at this with Red Hat we're now working on Cube vert to help move virtualized workloads onto these platforms so that we can now have them managed at an open platform environment and Cube vert provides that so between Intel and Red Hat and the community we're investing resources to make certain that comes to product as containers a critical feature in Linux becomes more and more prevalent across the industry the growth of container elements continues at a rapid rapid pace one of the things that we wanted to bring to that is the ability to provide isolation without impairing the flexibility the speed and the footprint of a container with our clear container efforts along with hyper run v we were able to combine that and create we call cotta containers we launched this at the end of last year cotta containers is designed to have that container element available and adding elements like isolation both of these events need to have an orchestration and management capability Red Hat's OpenShift provides that capability for these workloads whether containerized or cube vert capabilities with virtual environments Red Hat openshift is designed to take that commercial capability to market and we've been working with Red Hat for several years now to develop what we call our Intel select solution Intel select solutions our Intel technology optimized for downstream workloads as we see a growth in a workload will work with a partner to optimize a solution on Intel technology to deliver the best solution that could be deployed quickly our effort here is to accelerate the adoption of these type of workloads in the market working with Red Hat's so now we're going to be deploying an Intel select solution design and optimized around Red Hat OpenShift we expect the industry's start deploying this capability very rapidly I'm excited to announce today that Lenovo is committed to be the first platform company to deliver this solution to market the Intel select solution to market will be delivered by Lenovo now I talked about what we're doing in industry and how we're transforming businesses our technology is also utilized for greater good there's no better example of this than the worked by dr. Stephen Hawking it was a sad day on March 14th of this year when dr. Stephen Hawking passed away but not before Intel had a 20-year relationship with dr. Hawking driving breakthrough capabilities innovating with him driving those robust capabilities to the rest of the world one of our Intel engineers an Intel fellow which is the highest technical achievement you can reach at Intel got to spend 10 years with dr. Hawking looking at innovative things they could do together with our technology and his breakthrough innovative thinking so I thought it'd be great to bring up our Intel fellow Lema notch Minh to talk about her work with dr. Hawking and what she learned in that experience come on up Elina [Music] great to see you Thanks something going on about the breakthrough breaking boundaries and Intel technology talk about how you use that in your work with dr. Hawking absolutely so the most important part was to really make that technology contextually aware because for people with disability every single interaction takes a long time so whether it was adapting for example the language model of his work predictor to understand whether he's gonna talk to people or whether he's writing a book on black holes or to even understand what specific application he might be using and then making sure that we're surfacing only enough actions that were relevant to reduce that amount of interaction so the tricky part is really to make all of that contextual awareness happen without totally confusing the user because it's constantly changing underneath it so how is that your work involving any open source so you know the problem with assistive technology in general is that it needs to be tailored to the specific disability which really makes it very hard and very expensive because it can't utilize the economies of scale so basically with the system that we built what we wanted to do is really enable unleashing innovation in the world right so you could take that framework you could tailor to a specific sensor for example a brain computer interface or something like that where you could actually then support a different set of users so that makes open-source a perfect fit because you could actually build and tailor and we you spoke with dr. Hawking what was this view of open source is it relevant to him so yeah so Stephen was adamant from the beginning that he wanted a system to benefit the world and not just himself so he spent a lot of time with us to actually build this system and he was adamant from day one that he would only engage with us if we were commit to actually open sourcing the technology that's fantastic and you had the privilege of working with them in 10 years I know you have some amazing stories to share so thank you so much for being here thank you so much in order for us to scale and that's what we're about at Intel is really scaling our capabilities it takes this community it takes this community of diverse capabilities it takes two births thought diverse thought of dr. Hawking couldn't be more relevant but we also are proud at Intel about leading efforts of diverse thought like women and Linux women in big data other areas like that where Intel feels that that diversity of thinking and engagement is critical for our success so as we look at Intel not to be encumbered by the past but break boundaries to deliver the technology that you all will go off and do something wonderful with we're going to remain committed to that and I look forward to continue working with you thank you and have a great conference [Applause] thank God now we have one more customer story for you today when you think about customers challenges in the technology landscape it is hard to ignore the public cloud these days public cloud is introducing capabilities that are driving the fastest rate of innovation that we've ever seen in our industry and our next customer they actually had that same challenge they wanted to tap into that innovation but they were also making bets for the long term they wanted flexibility and providers and they had to integrate to the systems that they already have and they have done a phenomenal job in executing to this so please give a warm welcome to Kerry Pierce from Cathay Pacific Kerry come on thanks very much Matt hi everyone thank you for giving me the opportunity to share a little bit about our our cloud journey let me start by telling you a little bit about Cathay Pacific we're an international airline based in Hong Kong and we serve a passenger and a cargo network to over 200 destinations in 52 countries and territories in the last seventy years and years seventy years we've made substantial investments to develop Hong Kong as one of the world's leading transportation hubs we invest in what matters most to our customers to you focusing on our exemplary service and our great product and it's both on the ground and in the air we're also investing and expanding our network beyond our multiple frequencies to the financial districts such as Tokyo New York and London and we're connecting Asia and Hong Kong with key tech hubs like San Francisco where we have multiple flights daily we're also connecting Asia in Hong Kong to places like Tel Aviv and our upcoming destination of Dublin in fact 2018 is actually going to be one of our biggest years in terms of network expansion and capacity growth and we will be launching in September our longest flight from Hong Kong direct to Washington DC and that'll be using a state-of-the-art Airbus a350 1000 aircraft so that's a little bit about Cathay Pacific let me tell you about our journey through the cloud I'm not going to go into technical details there's far smarter people out in the audience who will be able to do that for you just focus a little bit about what we were trying to achieve and the people side of it that helped us get there we had a couple of years ago no doubt the same issues that many of you do I don't think we're unique we had a traditional on-premise non-standardized fragile infrastructure it didn't meet our infrastructure needs and it didn't meet our development needs it was costly to maintain it was costly to grow and it really inhibited innovation most importantly it slowed the delivery of value to our customers at the same time you had the hype of cloud over the last few years cloud this cloud that clouds going to fix the world we were really keen on making sure we didn't get wound up and that so we focused on what we needed we started bottom up with a strategy we knew we wanted to be clouded Gnostic we wanted to have active active on-premise data centers with a single network and fabric and we wanted public clouds that were trusted and acted as an extension of that environment not independently we wanted to avoid single points of failure and we wanted to reduce inter dependencies by having loosely coupled designs and finally we wanted to be scalable we wanted to be able to cater for sudden surges of demand in a nutshell we kind of just wanted to make everything easier and a management level we wanted to be a broker of services so not one size fits all because that doesn't work but also not one of everything we want to standardize but a pragmatic range of services that met our development and support needs and worked in harmony with our public cloud not against it so we started on a journey with red hat we implemented Red Hat cloud forms and ansible to manage our hybrid cloud we also met implemented Red Hat satellite to maintain a manager environment we built a Red Hat OpenStack on crimson vironment to give us an alternative and at the same time we migrated a number of customer applications to a production public cloud open shift environment but it wasn't all Red Hat you love heard today that the Red Hat fits within an overall ecosystem we looked at a number of third-party tools and services and looked at developing those into our core solution I think at last count we had tried and tested somewhere past eight different tools and at the moment we still have around 62 in our environment that help us through that journey but let me put the technical solution aside a little bit because it doesn't matter how good your technical solution is if you don't have the culture and the people to get it right as a group we needed to be aligned for delivery and we focused on three core behaviors we focused on accountability agility and collaboration now I was really lucky we've got a pretty fantastic team for whom that was actually pretty easy but but again don't underestimate the importance of getting the culture and the people right because all the technology in the world doesn't matter if you don't have that right I asked the team what did we do differently because in our situation we didn't go out and hire a bunch of new people we didn't go out and hire a bunch of consultants we had the staff that had been with us for 10 20 and in some cases 30 years so what did we do differently it was really simple we just empowered and supported our staff we knew they were the smart ones they were the ones that were dealing with a legacy environment and they had the passion to make the change so as a team we encouraged suggestions and contributions from our overall IT community from the bottom up we started small we proved the case we told the story and then we got by him and only did did we implement wider the benefits the benefit through our staff were a huge increase in staff satisfaction reduction and application and platform outage support incidents risk free and failsafe application releases work-life balance no more midnight deployments and our application and infrastructure people could really focus on delivering customer value not on firefighting and for our end customers the people that travel with us it was really really simple we could provide a stable service that allowed for faster releases which meant we could deliver value faster in terms of stats we migrated 16 production b2c applications to a public cloud OpenShift environment in 12 months we decreased provisioning time from weeks or occasionally months we were waiting for hardware two minutes and we had a hundred percent availability of our key customer facing systems but most importantly it was about people we'd built a culture a culture of innovation that was built on a foundation of collaboration agility and accountability and that permeated throughout the IT organization not those just those people that were involved in the project everyone with an IT could see what good looked like and to see what it worked what it looked like in terms of working together and that was a key foundation for us the future for us you will have heard today everything's changing so we're going to continue to develop our open hybrid cloud onboard more public cloud service providers continue to build more modern applications and leverage the emerging technology integrate and automate everything we possibly can and leverage more open source products with the great support from the open source community so there you have it that's our journey I think we succeeded by not being over awed and by starting with the basics the technology was key obviously it's a cool component but most importantly it was a way we approached our transition we had a clear strategy that was actually developed bottom-up by the people that were involved day to day and we empowered those people to deliver and that provided benefits to both our staff and to our customers so thank you for giving the opportunity to share and I hope you enjoy the rest of the summer [Applause] I got one thanks what a great story would a great customer story to close on and we have one more partner to come up and this is a partner that all of you know that's Microsoft Microsoft has gone through an amazing transformation they've we've built an incredibly meaningful partnership with them all the way from our open source collaboration to what we do in the business side we started with support for Red Hat Enterprise Linux on hyper-v and that was truly just the beginning today we're announcing one of the most exciting joint product offerings on the market today let's please give a warm welcome to Paul correr and Scott Scott Guthrie to tell us about it guys come on out you know Scot welcome welcome to the Red Hat summer thanks for coming really appreciate it great to be here you know many surprises a lot of people when we you know published a list of speakers and then you rock you were on it and you and I are on stage here it's really really important and exciting to us exciting new partnership we've worked together a long time from the hypervisor up to common support and now around hybrid hybrid cloud maybe from your perspective a little bit of of what led us here well you know I think the thing that's really led us here is customers and you know Microsoft we've been on kind of a transformation journey the last several years where you know we really try to put customers at the center of everything that we do and you know as part of that you quickly learned from customers in terms of I'm including everyone here just you know you've got a hybrid of state you know both in terms of what you run on premises where it has a lot of Red Hat software a lot of Microsoft software and then really is they take the journey to the cloud looking at a hybrid of state in terms of how do you run that now between on-premises and a public cloud provider and so I think the thing that both of us are recognized and certainly you know our focus here at Microsoft has been you know how do we really meet customers with where they're at and where they want to go and make them successful in that journey and you know it's been fantastic working with Paul and the Red Hat team over the last two years in particular we spend a lot of time together and you know really excited about the journey ahead so um maybe you can share a bit more about the announcement where we're about to make today yeah so it's it's it's a really exciting announcement it's and really kind of I think first of its kind in that we're delivering a Red Hat openshift on Azure service that we're jointly developing and jointly managing together so this is different than sort of traditional offering where it's just running inside VMs and it's sort of two vendors working this is really a jointly managed service that we're providing with full enterprise support with a full SLA where the you know single throat to choke if you will although it's collectively both are choke the throats in terms of making sure that it works well and it's really uniquely designed around this hybrid world and in that it supports will support both Windows and Linux containers and it role you know it's the same open ship that runs both in the public cloud on Azure and on-premises and you know it's something that we hear a lot from customers I know there's a lot of people here that have asked both of us for this and super excited to be able to talk about it today and we're gonna show off the first demo of it just a bit okay well I'm gonna ask you to elaborate a bit more about this how this fits into the bigger Microsoft picture and I'll get out of your way and so thanks again thank you for coming here we go thanks Paul so I thought I'd spend just a few minutes talking about wouldn't you know that some of the work that we're doing with Microsoft Asher and the overall Microsoft cloud I didn't go deeper in terms of the new offering that we're announcing today together with red hat and show demo of it actually in action in a few minutes you know the high level in terms of you know some of the work that we've been doing at Microsoft the last couple years you know it's really been around this this journey to the cloud that we see every organization going on today and specifically the Microsoft Azure we've been providing really a cloud platform that delivers the infrastructure the application and kind of the core computing needs that organizations have as they want to be able to take advantage of what the cloud has to offer and in terms of our focus with Azure you know we've really focused we deliver lots and lots of different services and features but we focused really in particular on kind of four key themes and we see these four key themes aligning very well with the journey Red Hat it's been on and it's partly why you know we think the partnership between the two companies makes so much sense and you know for us the thing that we've been really focused on has been with a or in terms of how do we deliver a really productive cloud meaning how do we enable you to take advantage of cutting-edge technology and how do we kind of accelerate the successful adoption of it whether it's around the integration of managed services that we provide both in terms of the application space in the data space the analytic and AI space but also in terms of just the end-to-end management and development tools and how all those services work together so that teams can basically adopt them and be super successful yeah we deeply believe in hybrid and believe that the world is going to be a multi cloud and a multi distributed world and how do we enable organizations to be able to take the existing investments that they already have and be able to easily integrate them in a public cloud and with a public cloud environment and get immediate ROI on day one without how to rip and replace tons of solutions you know we're moving very aggressively in the AI space and are looking to provide a rich set of AI services both finished AI models things like speech detection vision detection object motion etc that any developer even at non data scientists can integrate to make application smarter and then we provide a rich set of AI tooling that enables organizations to build custom models and be able to integrate them also as part of their applications and with their data and then we invest very very heavily on trust Trust is sort of at the core of a sure and we now have more compliant certifications than any other cloud provider we run in more countries than any other cloud provider and we really focus around unique promises around data residency data sovereignty and privacy that are really differentiated across the industry and terms of where Iser runs today we're in 50 regions around the world so our region for us is typically a cluster of multiple data centers that are grouped together and you can see we're pretty much on every continent with the exception of Antarctica today and the beauty is you're going to be able to take the Red Hat open shift service and run it on ashore in each of these different locations and really have a truly global footprint as you look to build and deploy solutions and you know we've seen kind of this focus on productivity hybrid intelligence and Trust really resonate in the market and about 90 percent of Fortune 500 companies today are deployed on Azure and you heard Nike talked a little bit earlier this afternoon about some of their journeys as they've moved to a dot public cloud this is a small logo of just a couple of the companies that are on ashore today and what I do is actually even before we dive into the open ship demo is actually just show a quick video you know one of the companies thing there are actually several people from that organization here today Deutsche Bank who have been working with both Microsoft and Red Hat for many years Microsoft on the other side Red Hat both on the rel side and then on the OpenShift side and it's just one of these customers that have helped bring the two companies together to deliver this managed openshift service on Azure and so I'm just going to play a quick video of some of the folks that Deutsche Bank talking about their experiences and what they're trying to get out of it so we could roll the video that'd be great technology is at the absolute heart of Deutsche Bank we've recognized that the cost of running our infrastructure was particularly high there was a enormous amount of under utilization we needed a platform which was open to polyglot architecture supporting any kind of application workload across the various business lines of the third we analyzed over 60 different vendor products and we ended up with Red Hat openshift I'm super excited Microsoft or supporting Linux so strongly to adopting a hybrid approach we chose as here because Microsoft was the ideal partner to work with on constructs around security compliance business continuity as you as in all the places geographically that we need to be we have applications now able to go from a proof of concept to production in three weeks that is already breaking records openshift gives us given entities and containers allows us to apply the same sets of processes automation across a wide range of our application landscape on any given day we run between seven and twelve thousand containers across three regions we start see huge levels of cost reduction because of the level of multi-tenancy that we can achieve through containers open ship gives us an abstraction layer which is allows us to move our applications between providers without having to reconfigure or recode those applications what's really exciting for me about this journey is the way they're both Red Hat and Microsoft have embraced not just what we're doing but what each other are doing and have worked together to build open shift as a first-class citizen with Microsoft [Applause] in terms of what we're announcing today is a new fully managed OpenShift service on Azure and it's really the first fully managed service provided end-to-end across any of the cloud providers and it's jointly engineer operated and supported by both Microsoft and Red Hat and that means again sort of one service one SLA and both companies standing for a link firmly behind it really again focusing around how do we make customers successful and as part of that really providing the enterprise-grade not just isolates but also support and integration testing so you can also take advantage of all your rel and linux-based containers and all of your Windows server based containers and how can you run them in a joint way with a common management stack taking the advantage of one service and get maximum density get maximum code reuse and be able to take advantage of a containerized world in a better way than ever before and make this customer focus is very much at the center of what both companies are really centered around and so what if I do be fun is rather than just talk about openshift as actually kind of show off a little bit of a journey in terms of what this move to take advantage of it looks like and so I'd like to invite Brendan and Chris onstage who are actually going to show off a live demo of openshift on Azure in action and really walk through how to provision the service and basically how to start taking advantage of it using the full open ship ecosystem so please welcome Brendan and Chris we're going to join us on stage for a demo thanks God thanks man it's been a good afternoon so you know what we want to get into right now first I'd like to think Brandon burns for joining us from Microsoft build it's a busy week for you I'm sure your own stage there a few times as well you know what I like most about what we just announced is not only the business and technical aspects but it's that operational aspect the uniqueness the expertise that RedHat has for running OpenShift combined with the expertise that Microsoft has within Azure and customers are going to get this joint offering if you will with you know Red Hat OpenShift on Microsoft Azure and so you know kind of with that again Brendan I really appreciate you being here maybe talk to the folks about what we're going to show yeah so we're going to take a look at what it looks like to deploy OpenShift on to Azure via the new OpenShift service and the real selling point the really great part of this is the the deep integration with a cloud native app API so the same tooling that you would use to create virtual machines to create disks trade databases is now the tooling that you're going to use to create an open chip cluster so to show you this first we're going to create a resource group here so we're going to create that resource group in East us using the AZ tool that's the the azure command-line tooling a resource group is sort of a folder on Azure that holds all of your stuff so that's gonna come back into the second I've created my resource group in East us and now we're gonna use that exact same tool calling into into Azure api's to provision an open shift cluster so here we go we have AZ open shift that's our new command line tool putting it into that resource group I'm gonna get into East us alright so it's gonna take a little bit of time to deploy that open shift cluster it's doing a bunch of work behind the scenes provisioning all kinds of resources as well as credentials to access a bunch of different as your API so are we actually able to see this to you yeah so we can cut over to in just a second we can cut over to that resource group in a reload so Brendan while relating the beauty of what you know the teams have been doing together already is the fact that now open shift is a first-class citizen as it were yeah absolutely within the agent so I presume not only can I do a deployment but I can do things like scale and check my credentials and pretty much everything that I could do with any other service with that that's exactly right so we can anything that you you were used to doing via the my computer has locked up there we go the demo gods are totally with me oh there we go oh no I hit reload yeah that was that was just evil timing on the house this is another use for operators as we talked about earlier today that's right my dashboard should be coming up do I do I dare click on something that's awesome that was totally it was there there we go good job so what's really interesting about this I've also heard that it deploys you know in as little as five to six minutes which is really good for customers they want to get up and running with it but all right there we go there it is who managed to make it see that shows that it's real right you see the sweat coming off of me there but there you can see the I feel it you can see the various resources that are being created in order to create this openshift cluster virtual machines disks all of the pieces provision for you automatically via that one single command line call now of course it takes a few minutes to to create the cluster so in order to show the other side of that integration the integration between openshift and Azure I'm going to cut over to an open shipped cluster that I already have created alright so here you can see my open shift cluster that's running on Microsoft Azure I'm gonna actually log in over here and the first sign you're gonna see of the integration is it's actually using my credentials my login and going through Active Directory and any corporate policies that I may have around smart cards two-factor off anything like that authenticate myself to that open chef cluster so I'll accept that it can access my and now we're gonna load up the OpenShift web console so now this looks familiar to me oh yeah so if anybody's used OpenShift out there this is the exact same console and what we're going to show though is how this console via the open service broker and the open service broker implementation for Azure integrates natively with OpenShift all right so we can go down here and we can actually see I want to deploy a database I'm gonna deploy Mongo as my key value store that I'm going to use but you know like as we talk about management and having a OpenShift cluster that's managed for you I don't really want to have to manage my database either so I'm actually going to use cosmos DB it's a native Azure service it's a multilingual database that offers me the ability to access my data in a variety of different formats including MongoDB fully managed replicated around the world a pretty incredible service so I'm going to go ahead and create that so now Brendan what's interesting I think to me is you know we talked about the operational aspects and clearly it's not you and I running the clusters but you do need that way to interface with it and so when customers are able to deploy this all of this is out of the box there's no additional contemporary like this is what you get when you create when you use that tool to create that open chef cluster this is what you get with all of that integration ok great step through here and go ahead don't have any IP ranges there we go all right and we create that binding all right and so now behind the scenes openshift is integrated with the azure api's with all of my credentials to go ahead and create that distributed database once it's done provisioning actually all of the credentials necessary to access the database are going to be automatically populated into kubernetes available for me inside of OpenShift via service discovery to access from my application without any further work so I think that really shows not only the power of integrating openshift with an azure based API but actually the power of integrating a Druze API is inside of OpenShift to make a truly seamless experience for managing and deploying your containers across a variety of different platforms yeah hey you know Brendan this is great I know you've got a flight to catch because I think you're back onstage in a few hours but you know really appreciate you joining us today absolutely I look forward to seeing what else we do yeah absolutely thank you so much thanks guys Matt you want to come back on up thanks a lot guys if you have never had the opportunity to do a live demo in front of 8,000 people it'll give you a new appreciation for standing up there and doing it and that was really good you know every time I get the chance just to take a step back and think about the technology that we have at our command today I'm in awe just the progress over the last 10 or 20 years is incredible on to think about what might come in the next 10 or 20 years really is unthinkable you even forget 10 years what might come in the next five years even the next two years but this can create a lot of uncertainty in the environment of what's going to be to come but I believe I am certain about one thing and that is if ever there was a time when any idea is achievable it is now just think about what you've seen today every aspect of open hybrid cloud you have the world's infrastructure at your fingertips and it's not stopping you've heard about this the innovation of open source how fast that's evolving and improving this capability you've heard this afternoon from an entire technology ecosystem that's ready to help you on this journey and you've heard from customer after customer that's already started their journey in the successes that they've had you're one of the neat parts about this afternoon you will aren't later this week you will actually get to put your hands on all of this technology together in our live audience demo you know this is what some it's all about for us it's a chance to bring together the technology experts that you can work with to help formulate how to pull off those ideas we have the chance to bring together technology experts our customers and our partners and really create an environment where everyone can experience the power of open source that same spark that I talked about when I was at IBM where I understood the but intial that open-source had for enterprise customers we want to create the environment where you can have your own spark you can have that same inspiration let's make this you know in tomorrow's keynote actually you will hear a story about how open-source is changing medicine as we know it and literally saving lives it is a great example of expanding the ideas it might be possible that we came into this event with so let's make this the best summit ever thank you very much for being here let's kick things off right head down to the Welcome Reception in the expo hall and please enjoy the summit thank you all so much [Music] [Music]

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering Fortinet Accelerate 18. Brought to you by Fortinet. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE. Our continuing coverage of Fortinet Accelerate 2018. We're excited to be here. I'm Lisa Martin with Peter Burris, and we're excited to talk to one of the Keynotes the big cheese from the main stage session this morning, John Maddison. >> I say, small cheese I would say. >> SVP of Products and Solutions at Fortinet. Welcome back to theCUBE. >> It's great to be here again. >> So two things I learned about you when you started off your Keynote. One you're a Man City Fan, Manchester City. >> Manchester City Blue. >> Okay. >> Through and through, for many years. >> Premier League all the way. And you have the best job at Fortinet. >> I do indeed. >> Wow. >> That is to announce the new products of course. >> So let's talk about that. So you talked about some exciting announcements today. Tell us about, start with a Security Fabric. What's new there, what's going on, what's exciting? >> Well the core of the Security Fabric is FortiOS 6.0, that's our network operating system. That's the core of he Fabric and when we do a big release like this, many different features, new functionalities. Also we have tighter integration now between all our products in the Fabric. Bus, as I said, new features as well. Things like SD-WAN has been improved, we now have probably estimate of breed SD-WAN security. The Fabric integration itself is going on. We built out some new connectors with cloud. Now we have connectors for all the public clouds. All the public clouds. We have a new CASB connector, acronym city, of course, as usual, CASB is cloud access security broker, API access the SaaS clouds. And so we've got that not only in it's standalone form but also very much integrated inside the Fabric. We've also introducing some new FortiGuard service as part of FortiOS 6.0, a new security rating which is based on a bunch of new practices or best practices that all our customers have said this is great best practices, can you put this together and apply these to our network overall. That's just skimming the surface as I say, I think I said there's 200 plus new services I could have stood up there for like six hours or whatever. But great new services are 6.0 big announcement for us. >> We just chatted with your America's Channel Chief Jon Bove, talk to us about. >> Who's an Arsenal fan by the way. >> What. >> And we beat him Sunday three nil in the Cup final. >> Excellent. >> Just to make sure you get this. >> I'm sure. >> Write that down. >> Jot that down. >> So what excitement are you hearing in, from your perspective, in the channel with respect to all of the new announcements that you made today? >> Great feedback, so this obviously is a big channel partner event here. You know what a lot of channel partners are saying is that I need to make sure I provide more of a solution to the customers. In the past, you know maybe they sell a point product, it's hard to kind of keep that relationship going with that customer. But if they sell a solution with one or two products that's part of that solution or managed and some services as part of that, it's much stickier for the partners and gives them a bit more of an architectural approach to their customers network. They really like the Fabric as I said. The Fabric doesn't have to be everything inside the Fabric, they can be components. It's what we've seen far from a Fabric components. Our partners really latched on to the network plus the advanced threat protection, plus the management or plus the access points. But they definitely prefer to sell a complete solution. It's hard for them to manage 40 different security vendors, the skill sets, the training and everything else. Now they're not saying there needs to be one security vendor, much as we would like it to be Fortinet, but they need to be reduced to maybe a set of 10 or 12 and really, our Fabric allows them to do that. >> That's a key differentiator. >> Absolutely key differentiator and as I said, you know it's very hard to build a Fabric. It's a mesh network, all these products talk to each other. You can only really do that if you build those products organically, step-by-step, alongside the network operating system. It's no good acquiring lots of bits and pieces and trying to bolt it together, it's not going to work. We spent a long time, 10 years, building out this Fabric organically to make sure it integrates but also putting the best of breed features and things like SD-WAN and CASB. >> What is the product? In this digital world what is a product? >> A security product? >> Any kind of product. As a guy who runs product management, what's a product, can we talk about what is a security product? >> I think in the past you know product management used to be very focused on I've got a box that comes out, or I've got a piece of software that comes out, these days it could be virtual machine or cloud, but it's doing a single instance, there's a single thing that it's doing inside, inside the network from a security perspective. What we believe in is that multifunction, now consolidation, multiple threat vectors I refer to this that like the digital attack surface. The digital transformation, security transformation. The biggest issue though, is that digital attack surface. That's just expanded enormously, it's very dynamic. Things are coming on on off the network was spinning up virtual machines and applications here and there. A point product these days just can't cope, can't cope. You need solutions against specific threat vectors that are applied in a dynamic way using the Fabric. >> But arguably it's even beyond solutions. You need to be able to demonstrate to the customer that there is an outcome that's consistent and that you will help achieve that outcome, You'll take some responsibility for it. In many respects, we move from a product to a solution, to an outcome orientation. Does that resonate with you and if so, how does that influence the way you think and the way that you're guiding Fortinet and partners? >> Yes, definitely. You know one of the first things they're very worried about is you know can they see that digital attack surface. It's very large now and it's moving around. Their outcome, first outcomes to say, do I know my risk on my attack surface? That's the very first out. Is it visible, can I see it, or can I protect it or can I apply the right threat protection against that. That outcome to them is they can see everything, protect everything, but as I said also, now they're moving into this more detection environment. Where you've got machine learning, artificial intelligence because you need to apply that. The bad guys these days are very smart in that they know they can morph things very quickly and provide you know targeted attacks, zero-day attacks, we probably haven't seen it before. I hate this analogy where we say somebody else got to get infected before everyone else gets protected. It shouldn't be that way. With, you know, with technologies like artificial intelligence, machine learning, we should be able to protect everybody from day one. >> Kind of pivoting on, you brought up the word outcome, and I want to go off that for a second. When you're talking with customers and you mentioned, I think, before we went live that you visited, talked to over 300 customers last year. Who is at the table, at a customer, in terms of determining the outcome we need to have? Are we talking about the CSO's team, what about folks in other organizations, operational technology departments. Who are you now seeing is in this conversation of determining this outcome. >> A new job role which I think been coming for a while, it's the security architect. Two years ago, I'll go into a room and there would be the networking team on one side of the table, this InfoSec team security side, on this side of the table, the CIO over here and the CSO over here and they be debating. I would be almost invisible in the room. They'll be debating what's going to happen because you know the CIO wants to build out more agile business applications, wants to move faster. The security team has got to answer to the Board these days, and they got to make sure everything's secure. What's their risk factor? And what I see is a new job function called the security architect, that kind of straddles a bit the networking team, understands what they're building out from an SDN, architecture, cloud perspective, but also understands the risks when you open up the network. The security architect provides more holistic, long-term architecture view for the customer, versus, I've got to fix this problem right now I've got a hold of a bucket, I've got to fix it, then we move on to the next. They're building a system on architecture long term. We have something called a Network Security Expert, it's our training education capability. We have an NSC eight, we have around 100 thousand people certified in the last two years on NSC between one and eight. And about 100 people on eight, because eight's a very high level architect level across all the security technologies. But we definitely see a lot of partners who want to get their people trained to NCE level eight because they would like to provide that security architect that's in the customer now, that advice on what should be that holistic security architecture. The big change to me is that the networking team and the security team have realized they can't just keep fixing things day to day, they need a more holistic long-term architecture. >> Let's talk about that holistic approach. At Wikibon we talk a lot about SiliconANGLE Wikibon, we talk a lot about how the difference between business and digital business is the role that data assets play in the digital business. I think it's a relatively interesting, powerful concept, but there's not a lot of expertise out there about thinking how is a data asset formed. I think security has a major role to play in defining how a data assets structured because security in many respects is the process of privatizing data so that it can be appropriated only as you want it to. What does the security architect do? Because I could take what you just said and say the security architect is in part responsible for defining and sustaining the data asset portfolio. >> Yes and you know, if you go back a few years, there's data leakage prevention was a big area, big marketplace, DLP is the best thing. Their biggest problem that they did was they couldn't tag the assets. They didn't know what assets were so then when it came to providing data protection they go well, what is it, I don't know where it's from, I don't know what it is. And so that a whole marketplace kind of just went away. We're still there a bit, but everyone's really struggling with it still. The 6.0 introduced something called tagging technology. It's inherent already inside routing systems and switching systems, SDN systems. The tagging technology allows you to look at data or devices or interfaces or firewalls from a higher level and say this is the business relationship between that device, that data and what my business objectives are. We talked about intent based network security and the ability long term is to say, hey, if I've got a user and I want to add that user to this network at security level six to that application, I say that, then it gets translated into bits and bytes and network comport and then gets translated end-to-end across the network. The tagging technology from my mind is the first step in a to be able to kind of tag interfaces and data and everything else. Once you've got that tagging done then you can apply policies as a much higher level which are data centric and business aware centric. >> I'm going to ask you a question related to that. Historically, networks in the IT world were device was the primary citizen right. Then when we went to the web the page became a primary citizen. Are we now talking about a world in which data becomes the primary citizen we're really talking about networks of data? >> I think to some extent. If you look at the users today, they have like maybe three or four devices. Because students, universities, there's something on with those lectures, they've got an iPad, their iPhone, three devices attaching there. I think the definition of one user and one device has gone away and it's multiple devices these days. And you know a lot of devices attaching that no one has any clue about. I don't think it's going to be completely data centric because I still think it's very very hard to tag and classify that data completely accurately as it's moving around. I think tends to be a part of it, I think devices going to be part of it, I think the network itself, the applications, are all going to be part of this visibility. In our 6.0 we provide this topology map where you can see devices users. You can see applications spin up, you can see the relationship between those things and the policies, the visibility is going to be extremely important going forward and then the tagging goes along with that and then you can apply the policy. >> With respect to visibility, I wanted to chat about that a little bit in the context of customers. One of the things that Ken talked about in his keynote was. >> Ken? >> Ken. >> Ken Xie. >> Yes. (laughing) >> Ken who? >> That guy? The guy that steals slides from you in keynotes. >> He did as usual. >> I know, I saw that. >> Tells me like two minutes before tells me John, I need that slide. (Peter laughing) >> That's why you have the best job. Everybody wants to copy you. In terms of what what the CEO said, that guy, that Fortinet protects 90% of the global S&P 100. There were logos of Apple, Coca-cola, Oracle, for example. In terms of visibility, as we look at either, a giant enterprise like that or maybe a smaller enterprise where they are, you mentioned this digital tax surface is expanding because they are enabling this digital business transformation, they've got cloud, multi-cloud, mobile, IoT, and they also have 20, north of 20, different security products in their environments. How did they get visibility across these disparate solutions that don't play together. How does Fortinet help them achieve that visibility, so they can continue to scale at the speed they need to? >> Well I think they use systems like SIM systems we have a Forti SIM as well where you can use standard base sys logs and SNMP to get information up there so they can see it that way. They're using orchestration systems to see parts of it, but I think long term, I think I speak to most customers they say, although there's specific, new vendors maybe for specific detection capabilities, they really want to reduce the number of vendors inside their network. You say 20, I sometimes I hear 30 and 40. It's a big investment for them. But they also realize they can't maintain it long term. Our recommendation to customers is to, if you've got some Fortinet footprint in there, look at what's the most obvious to build out from a Fortinet perspective. Sometimes we're in the data centers or sometimes we expand into the WAN and sometimes we expand into the cloud. Sometimes we'll add some advanced threat protection. We're not saying replace everything obviously with Fortinet, we're saying build what's most obvious to you and then make sure that you've got some vendors in that which are part of our Fabric alliance. We have 42 vendors now, security vendors, from end point to cloud to management that can connect in through those different APIs. And when we click them through those APIs they don't get you know the full Fabric functionality in terms of telemetry and visibility but they apply a specific functionality. A good example would be an endpoint vendor connecting through our sandbox not quite sure about files, entered our sandbox we'll give them a recommendation back. As soon as we know about that, all the Fabric knows about it instantly across the whole network because time is of the essence these days. When something gets hacked, it's inside a network. It's less than 60 seconds for something for the whole network. That's why segmentation, interim segmentation, is still a very important project for our customers to stop this lateral movement of infections once they get inside the network. >> But, very quickly, it does sound as though that notion of the security architect, this increasing complexity inside the network and I asked the question about whether data is going to be the primary decision, you get a very reasonable answer to that. But it sounds like increasingly, a security expert is going to have to ask the question how does this data integrate? How am I securing this data? And that, in many respects, becomes a central feature of how you think about security architecture and security interactions. >> Yeah but I think people used to build a network and bolt on security as an afterthought. I think what they're saying now is we need for the networking people and security people to work together to build a holistic security architecture totally integrated day one, not some afterthought that goes on there. That's why we know, we've been building the Fabric all these years to make sure it's a totally integrated Fabric end-to-end segmentation architecture where you can also then connect in different parts of the network. It has to be built day one that way. >> Last question, is sort of, I think we asked your CSO this, the balance between enabling a business to transform digitally at speed and scale. I think it was one of you this morning, that said that this is going to be the year of security transformation. Could've been that guy, that other guy, that you know, steals your slides. But how do how does a company when you're talking with customers, how do they get that balance, between we are on this digital transformation journey. We've got a ton of security products. How do they balance that? It's not chicken and egg to be able to continue transforming to grow profit, you know be profitable, with underpinning this digital business with a very secure infrastructure. >> As I said, I think most of them got that now. They kind of go, they've got this five-year plan versus a one-year plan or a six-month plan on the security side. It's integrated into the network architecture plan long term and that's the way they're building it out and that's the way they've got a plan to get, you know, you look at financial organizations who want to provide internet access or branch offices. They've got a plan to roll it out, that's safe going forward, or they want to add broadband access to their internet, like 5G or broadband interconnection, they've got a plan for it. I think people are much more aware now that when I build something out whether it be on the data side on the network side, it has to be secure from day one. It can't be something I'll do afterwards. I think that's the biggest change I've seen in my customer interactions is that they absolutely, essential is absolutely essential that they build out a secure network from day one, not an afterthought going forward. >> Well, we'll end it there, secure network from day one. John, thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE, congratulations on the announcements and we hope you have a great show. >> Great thanks. >> Thank you for watching, we are theCUBE, live from Fortinet Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host Peter Burris. Stick around, we'll be right back.

(upbeat music) >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are live at Moscone Center at the RSA Convention. 40,000 security professionals are here, talking about security. This thing grows every single year. We're happy to be here and excited for our next guest, Ajay Gupta. He's the Global Director, Product Marketing and Management from Huawei. Welcome. >> Oh thank you, Jeff. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for your time. >> Absolutely, so you've been coming here for years. You laughed at me when I asked how long you've been coming here. >> Oh it's been ages, you can look at me and you can imagine. >> No, look, all hairs still dark. >> Oh come on, you're being too nice to me. >> So what's really changed, as you've been coming for years. Kind of at a global perspective? >> Yeah, yeah I think we've seen the nature of security change, the nature of threats change. The different companies have changed actually over the years. The crowd has gone up and swelled like 40,000 you mentioned. So, we really think this show has really become the gold standard for the trade shows when it comes to security. We weren't there at RSA but last few years we have made it a point to be here every year to talk to the customers here. >> Yeah. >> And you meet all the people from all over the world. That's the best part, customers, partners, everybody. >> It's interesting because a big part of the theme here is collaboration and ecosystem. And nobody can do it alone. Everyone covers different pieces of the puzzle. I know you guys are trying to grow your ecosystem. What does ecosystem mean to Huawei? >> Absolutely. I think we do believe from a security perspective no single vendor can offer the best of the breach security to their customers. We really need partners, the ecosystem. Huawei has something called being integrated. That is, bringing the partners onboard to offer different pieces of the puzzle. In fact it's a good point to mention. We are announcing two announcements this morning actually. The first one what we'll talk about is Avira. It's the best AV engine company in Germany. Huawei really recognizes the importance of the AV. So we are bringing their AV engine on the Huawei's next generation firewall. It really brings two things. Performance and accuracy. That's what people need from a AV point of view. The second announcement we're going to make really is what's called the Huawei USG9000V. It's a security gateway actually. So as the cloud's proliferation, as people are moving to the cloud, as people are using more and more SAS applications, you're going to see lot more security building from the cloud perspective. Our USG9000V is actually the perfect gateway to combat the security threats in the cloud. So virtual data centers, the cloud data centers, the OTT's, we really bring all the different kinds of security in the USG9000V. The announcement we are making is really an upgraded version of the existing security appliance that we call 6000V. Again, it's a software security. Works with different VMs whether it's KVM, whether it's zen, whether MS6. Huawei's own virtual system. Huawei's FushionSphere. The performance is in terabit so you can actually go in and read some of the specs from the Huawei's perspective. One of the best of the V products for virtual security. >> Right. And the cloud's changed everything, right? So many applications are delivered via the cloud now. And even if it's not a cloud and it's an internal cloud people want the flexibility of cloud. They want to scalability of cloud. They really want the way the cloud works for them to deliver the applications to their customers and their employees. >> Definitely. So three things I'm going to mention here from a cloud perspective. What people are looking for from a cloud security perspective is on demand. How do you scale in, scale out as the demands of the bandwidth goes up. You got to make sure your network security is able to keep up with that demand. People are looking for visibility. You've got this multitude of appliances, boxes, cloud boxes, cloud security all over the place. How do you make sense out of it? How do you really bring all of those thresholds, all of those unloads come together into the form of CIO or CSO can really understand. >> Right. >> And the last thing I'm going to make it easy to configure. PLug and play. Some of the automation feature. Automation people are starting to move in the security but you got to be careful when you bring automation from a security perspective. You need to automate task that are not that mission critical. But as we more and more trust, you're going to see more security automation in the industry. >> Yeah. Because when it's cloud it just needs to work, right. Everybody just expects, I can add more capacity, I can spin it down. And it just needs to work. It's somebody else's problem, it's somebody else's data center. >> I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, I just know it works. >> Yeah. >> I pick up my phone, it's going to kick. That's exactly the concept of security. But you got to be really careful when it comes to security because you got to make sure that when, suppose the positive threats and positive and negative threats actually. How do you combat and make sure you automate from the positive point of view and not from a negative point of view. >> But there's one thing that hasn't changed, cloud or no cloud. And they talked about it in the keynote and that great line was every company has at least one person that will click on anything. (laughs) >> Oh, I love it. I love it actually. >> How do we get past, I mean, they're still getting the email from the African king who needs some dollar >> Nigeria, Nigeria >> For Nigeria. >> Let me put I this way. I would say hackers are getting smarter and smarter. How do you keep up with the threats from the hackers who are one step ahead of you. How do you really combat threats, unknown threats, in the future? So I think things we have seen in 2016, the phishing attacks are back on the rise actually. Always do you see Ransomware. Form the point of Ransomware I should mention there's something called par pon ton from Ransomware that I'm going to let you off the hook if you infect two other computers actually. I don't need the money from you. So hackers are coming with those innovations to really go and hack more people actually. You seen what happened with the collected costs. Chrysler had a recall on 1.4 million vehicles in the past. Do you see what's happened with the camera, the surveillance camera. So I think two things we really need to watch out in 2017. One is Ransomware and the number two thing which is extremely, extremely important is industrial IOT actually. >> Absolutely. >> As the sensors get deployed more and more around the world you've got to make sure those sensors are able to keep up with the threat, it's not easy. So what Huawei provides to the table is really end to end security. Two things in security; multi-layered security and security indifference. Those are the principles from the bottom, not from the top down. >> Right. It's funny, the funniest, it's not funny really. The Ransomware story was fake Ransomware. I didn't really put Ransomware on your machine I just told you that I did so go ahead and pay me anyway. And the other thought is really the ability for them to build a business because of Bitcoin as a way to collect anonymous money from people. That enabled a rise in the escalation in Ransomware. It's a complicated world. They give you the last take as people drive away, leave RSA 2017, really what should be the top of mind as they think about what's going to happen and what we'll be talking about when we come back a year from now? >> I think two things I would really suggest people to really take away from the RSA this year. First of all, what's happening in the industry? What's happening in the market? Keep updated with the latest threat. See what vendors had a very comprehensive solution from an end to end perspective. Really go do their own research, making sure that security is not an after thought. Security it needs to be proactive. Security needs to be built up from ground up. Don't regard security as something secondary actually. As long as people put premium on security, that's going to save their face rather than to be appearing on the Wall Street front page or have been hacked. They say there are two kinds of companies. 50% claim that they have been hacked. 50% know they just don't admit it. That's all. >> Alright, very good. Well Ajay thanks for stopping by and congrats on a great show. >> My pleasure, thanks Jeff. Thank you very much. >> He's Ajay Gupta, I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE from RSA conference in downtown San Francisco. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are live at Moscone Center at the RSA Convention. 40,000 security professionals are here, talking about security. This thing grows every single year. We're happy to be here and excited for our next guest, Ajay Gupta. He's the Global Director, Product Marketing and Management from Huawei. Welcome. >> Oh thank you, Jeff. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for your time. >> Absolutely, so you've been coming here for years. You laughed at me when I asked how long you've been coming here. >> Oh it's been ages, you can look at me and you can imagine. >> No, look, all hairs still dark. >> Oh come on, you're being too nice to me. >> So what's really changed, as you've been coming for years. Kind of at a global perspective? >> Yeah, yeah I think we've seen the nature of security change, the nature of threats change. The different companies have changed actually over the years. The crowd has gone up and swelled like 40,000 you mentioned. So, we really think this show has really become the gold standard for the trade shows when it comes to security. We weren't there at RSA but last few years we have made it a point to be here every year to talk to the customers here. >> Yeah. >> And you meet all the people from all over the world. That's the best part, customers, partners, everybody. >> It's interesting because a big part of the theme here is collaboration and ecosystem. And nobody can do it alone. Everyone covers different pieces of the puzzle. I know you guys are trying to grow your ecosystem. What does ecosystem mean to Huawei? >> Absolutely. I think we do believe from a security perspective no single vendor can offer the best of the breach security to their customers. We really need partners, the ecosystem. Huawei has something called being integrated. That is, bringing the partners onboard to offer different pieces of the puzzle. In fact it's a good point to mention. We are announcing two announcements this morning actually. The first one what we'll talk about is Avira. It's the best AV engine company in Germany. Huawei really recognizes the importance of the AV. So we are bringing their AV engine on the Huawei's next generation firewall. It really brings two things. Performance and accuracy. That's what people need from a AV point of view. The second announcement we're going to make really is what's called the Huawei USG9000V. It's a security gateway actually. So as the cloud's proliferation, as people are moving to the cloud, as people are using more and more SAS applications, you're going to see lot more security building from the cloud perspective. Our USG9000V is actually the perfect gateway to combat the security threats in the cloud. So virtual data centers, the cloud data centers, the OTT's, we really bring all the different kinds of security in the USG9000V. The announcement we are making is really an upgraded version of the existing security appliance that we call 6000V. Again, it's a software security. Works with different VMs whether it's KVM, whether it's zen, whether MS6. Huawei's own virtual system. Huawei's FushionSphere. The performance is in terabit so you can actually go in and read some of the specs from the Huawei's perspective. One of the best of the V products for virtual security. >> Right. And the cloud's changed everything, right? So many applications are delivered via the cloud now. And even if it's not a cloud and it's an internal cloud people want the flexibility of cloud. They want to scalability of cloud. They really want the way the cloud works for them to deliver the applications to their customers and their employees. >> Definitely. So three things I'm going to mention here from a cloud perspective. What people are looking for from a cloud security perspective is on demand. How do you scale in, scale out as the demands of the bandwidth goes up. You got to make sure your network security is able to keep up with that demand. People are looking for visibility. You've got this multitude of appliances, boxes, cloud boxes, cloud security all over the place. How do you make sense out of it? How do you really bring all of those thresholds, all of those unloads come together into the form of CIO or CSO can really understand. >> Right. >> And the last thing I'm going to make it easy to configure. PLug and play. Some of the automation feature. Automation people are starting to move in the security but you got to be careful when you bring automation from a security perspective. You need to automate task that are not that mission critical. But as we more and more trust, you're going to see more security automation in the industry. >> Yeah. Because when it's cloud it just needs to work, right. Everybody just expects, I can add more capacity, I can spin it down. And it just needs to work. It's somebody else's problem, it's somebody else's data center. >> I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, I just know it works. >> Yeah. >> I pick up my phone, it's going to kick. That's exactly the concept of security. But you got to be really careful when it comes to security because you got to make sure that when, suppose the positive threats and positive and negative threats actually. How do you combat and make sure you automate from the positive point of view and not from a negative point of view. >> But there's one thing that hasn't changed, cloud or no cloud. And they talked about it in the keynote and that great line was every company has at least one person that will click on anything. (laughs) >> Oh, I love it. I love it actually. >> How do we get past, I mean, they're still getting the email from the African king who needs some dollar >> Nigeria, Nigeria >> For Nigeria. >> Let me put I this way. I would say hackers are getting smarter and smarter. How do you keep up with the threats from the hackers who are one step ahead of you. How do you really combat threats, unknown threats, in the future? So I think things we have seen in 2016, the phishing attacks are back on the rise actually. Always do you see Ransomware. Form the point of Ransomware I should mention there's something called par pon ton from Ransomware that I'm going to let you off the hook if you infect two other computers actually. I don't need the money from you. So hackers are coming with those innovations to really go and hack more people actually. You seen what happened with the collected costs. Chrysler had a recall on 1.4 million vehicles in the past. Do you see what's happened with the camera, the surveillance camera. So I think two things we really need to watch out in 2017. One is Ransomware and the number two thing which is extremely, extremely important is industrial IOT actually. >> Absolutely. >> As the sensors get deployed more and more around the world you've got to make sure those sensors are able to keep up with the threat, it's not easy. So what Huawei provides to the table is really end to end security. Two things in security; multi-layered security and security indifference. Those are the principles from the bottom, not from the top down. >> Right. It's funny, the funniest, it's not funny really. The Ransomware story was fake Ransomware. I didn't really put Ransomware on your machine I just told you that I did so go ahead and pay me anyway. And the other thought is really the ability for them to build a business because of Bitcoin as a way to collect anonymous money from people. That enabled a rise in the escalation in Ransomware. It's a complicated world. They give you the last take as people drive away, leave RSA 2017, really what should be the top of mind as they think about what's going to happen and what we'll be talking about when we come back a year from now? >> I think two things I would really suggest people to really take away from the RSA this year. First of all, what's happening in the industry? What's happening in the market? Keep updated with the latest threat. See what vendors had a very comprehensive solution from an end to end perspective. Really go do their own research, making sure that security is not an after thought. Security it needs to be proactive. Security needs to be built up from ground up. Don't regard security as something secondary actually. As long as people put premium on security, that's going to save their face rather than to be appearing on the Wall Street front page or have been hacked. They say there are two kinds of companies. 50% claim that they have been hacked. 50% know they just don't admit it. That's all. >> Alright, very good. Well Ajay thanks for stopping by and congrats on a great show. >> My pleasure, thanks Jeff. Thank you very much. >> He's Ajay Gupta, I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE from RSA conference in downtown San Francisco. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)