>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE, covering Fortinet Security Summit, brought to you by Fortinet. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, Lisa Martin here live in Napa Valley at the Fortinet Championship. This is the site of kickoff to the 2021-22 FedEx Cup regular series. We're here with Fortinet and we're here with one of our distinguished alumni, John Madison, the CMO and EVP of products. John, it's great to see you in person. >> Yes, Lisa it's been a while. >> It has been a while. >> Good to be back here, live. >> I know, you're not on Zoom, you're actually right six feet across from me. >> Yep, look, yes, it's definitely physical. >> It does, talk to me about the PGA and Fortinet. What are some of the synergies? >> There's a lot. I think one of the biggest ones is the culture of the two companies. So I mean, PGA tour, I think they've donated almost $3 billion to charities over the last 15 years, 20 years and we're the same. We would definitely want to give back to the community. We want to make sure we're providing training and education. We're trying to re-skill some of the veterans, for example, over 2000, also women in technology, you may have heard one of the key notes today about that, attempts from a education and training perspective. So there's a lot of synergies between the PGA Tour, and Fortinet from a cultural perspective. >> I love that. Cultural synergy is so important but also some of the initiatives, women in tech, STEM, STEAM, those are fantastic. Give our audience a little overview of what's going on here. We've got over 300 partners and customers here. What are some of the key themes being discussed today? >> Yeah, we're going to try and keep it smaller, this event. We don't want 10,000, 20,000 people. We'll keep it smaller. So about 300 customers and partners, and what we want to do is bring together, you know, the top people in cybersecurity and networking, we want to bring in customers so they can net with each other, we want to bring the partners here. And so, what you're going to see is you can see the tech expo behind you there, where people are talking technology. Some of the keynotes focus on areas like ransomware, for example, and cyber security in different industries. So definitely it's a smaller gathering, but I think it's very focused on cybersecurity and networking. >> Well, that's such an important topic these days. You know, you and I have spoken a number of times this summer by Zoom, and talking about the threat landscape and the changes-- >> Yep. >> And the work from anywhere. When you and I spoke, I think it was in June, you said 25% we expect are going to go back to the office, 25% permanently remote and the other 50 sort of transient. Do you still think given where we are now in September that that's still-- >> Yeah, I'm going to modify my prediction a bit, I think it's going to be hybrid for some time. And I don't think it's just at home or not at home or at work or not at work, I think it's going to be maybe one or two days, or maybe three days versus five days. And so, we definitely see the hybrid mode of about 50% for the next couple of years at least. I think that, you know, ransomware has been in the news a lot. You saw the Colonial, the ransomware has increased. We did a threat report recently. Showed about a 10X increase in ransomware. So, I think customers are very aware of the cybersecurity threats. The damage now is not just sucking information out and IP, it's causing damage to the infrastructure. So definitely the, you know, the attack surface is increased with people working from home, versus in the office, and then you've got the threat landscape, really, really focused on that ransomware piece. >> Yeah, ransomware becoming a household word, I'm pretty sure even my mom knows what that is. And talking about the nearly 11X increase in, what was that, the first half of 2021? >> Yeah, over the last 12 months. And I think what's also happened is ransomware used to be a broad attack. So let me send out, and see if I can find a thousand companies. Again, you saw with the Colonial attack, it's very targeted now as well. So you've got both targeted and broad ransomware campaigns going on. And a lot of companies are just rethinking their cybersecurity strategy to defend against that. And that work from home component is another attack surface. So a lot of companies that were operational technology companies that had air gaps and people would come to work, now that you can remotely get into the network, it's again, you can attack people at home, back into the network. >> Is that a direct correlation that you've saw in the last year, in terms of that increase in ransomware and this sudden shift to working from home? >> Well, I also think there's other components. And so, I think the ransomware organizations, the gangs, could use crypto more reasonably than checks and dollars and stuff like that. So they could get their money out. It became very profitable versus trying to sell credit card data on the dark web. So you saw that component. You also saw, as I said, the attack surface be larger for companies, and so those two things unfortunately have come together, and you know, really seen an exponential rise in attacks. >> Perfect storm. Let's talk about some of your customer conversations and how they've changed and evolved in the last 18 months. Give me a snapshot of when you're talking with customers, what are some of the things that they're coming to you for help, looking for the most guidance? >> Yeah, well I think, you know, the digital innovation transformation is almost accelerated because of, you know, COVID. They've accelerated those programs, especially in industries like retail, where it becomes almost essential now to have that digital connectivity. So they can't stop those programs. They need to accelerate those programs, but as they move those programs faster, again they expand their attack surface. And so, what I'm definitely seeing is a convergence of traditional kind of networking, connectivity, and cybersecurity teams like the CIO and the CSO working on projects jointly. So whether it be the WAN connectivity, or whether it be endpoint, or whether it be cloud, both teams are working much more closely going forward. >> Synergies there that are absolutely essential. Talk to me about what you guys announced with Linksys yesterday, speaking of work from home and how that has transformed every industry. Talk to us about the home work solution powered by Fortinet. >> Yeah, well, we definitely see work from home being there for some time. And so the question is, what do you do there? So I think initially 18 months ago, what happened was companies turned on their, what they call a VPN, which gives them an encrypted access when they went from 5% to a 100% people on the VPN. I speak to customers now and they're saying, that was kind of a temporary solution. It puts an end point security there. It was kind of temporary and now I need a longer-term solution because I can see this at least 50% for the next two years, being this hybrid work from home, and some of them are saying, "Well, let's look at something. Let's try and take the best of enterprise networking and security, and then try and match that with an easy to set up Wi-Fi or routing system." So the two companies, you know, have come together with this joint venture. We're taking Linksys technology from an ease of use at home, it's very simple to set up, you can do it on an app or whatever. And then we integrate the Fortinet technology inside there from a security and enterprise networking. The enterprises can manage themselves, the enterprise component and the consumer can manage their piece. What's very important is that separation as well. So the privacy of your home network, and then to make sure the enterprise piece is secure, and then also introducing some simple, what we call quality of service. So for a business person, things like Teams or Zoom as preference over some of the gaming and downloads of the family. So I think it brings the best of both worlds: ease of use and enterprise security together. >> I'm sure the kids won't like that it's not optimized for gaming, but it is optimized for things like video conferencing which, in the last year we've been dependent on for collaboration and communication. Tell me a little bit about the tuning for video conferencing and collaboration. >> Yeah, so we announced both Zoom and Microsoft Teams, probably the two biggest apps, which I use from a work from home business perspective. And definitely if you've got a normal system at home and your kids they've been downloading something, a new game or something like that, they can just take the whole bandwidth. And so the ability to kind of scale that back and make sure the Zoom meeting or the Teams meeting is first priority, I think is very important, to get that connectivity and that quality of service, but also have that security component as well. >> Yeah, the security component is increasingly important. Talk to me about why Linksys, was COVID the catalyst for this partnership? >> Well, I think we looked at it and we have our own work from home solutions as well. I mean, our own gear. We definitely wanted to find something where we could integrate into more of a ease of use solution set. And it just so happened we were speaking to Linksys on some other things and as soon as we started talking, it was very, very clear that this would be a great relationship and joint venture and so we made the investment. Not just "here's some of our code", we made a substantial investment in Linksys and yeah, we see some other things coming in the future as well. >> Can you talk to me a little bit about what the go to market will be, how can enterprises and consumers get this? >> Yeah. So it's more of an enterprise sale. I know some people think Linksys, they think consumer straight away. For us, this is a sale to the enterprises. So the enterprises buy it, it's a subscription service. So they just pay a monthly fee and they can have different levels of service inside there as well. They will get, you know, for each employee they'll get one, two or three nodes. And then so the, so the enterprise is paying for it, which I think will help a bit and they will manage it through their system, but the consumer will get this kind of a game that's very easy to use, very high speed connectivity, mesh technology. So yes, Linksys will sell some of it as well. But I think, you know, actually Fortinet will be the major kind of go to market because of our 500,000 business customers we have out there. >> Right. And your huge partner network. >> Yes. >> So let's talk about, give me a little bit of a view in terms of the benefit that IT will get leveraging the Linksys home work solution. I imagine that centralized visibility of all the devices connected to the corporate network, even though, wherever the devices are? >> Yeah, it actually extends the corporate network. So not in this initial release, in the second release. In the first release, they can go to a cloud portal and they can manage what they can manage from an enterprise perspective. The employee can go to the same portal, but gets a different view, can manage their piece. In the second release, we'll actually have support in our management systems. So if you're an existing Fortinet customer and you've got our management systems and say you've got, I don't know, 250 sites, and you're managing some of our firewalls or SD WAN systems, You'll be able to see all the employees links as systems as well, in that same management system. But again, there's a separation of duty and privacy where they can just manage the enterprise components, not they can't see the traffic from the employees' side, from the non-business transactions. >> Good. That privacy is key there. Do you think that in a perfect world, would help quiet down some of the perfect storm that we're seeing with ransomware and this explosion, this work from anywhere, work from home, going to be persisting technologies, like what you're doing with Linksys, is going to help make a dent in that spike? >> I think it's a component. So for us, the long term strategy for users, end point, this kind of Linksys component is an element. We also feel like there needs to be a transition of VPN technology into zero trust. So you're limiting again, the access to applications versus the network. And then definitely the third component would be a technology like EDR, which is more behavioral-based versus signature-based. And so you bring all those three together. Absolutely we'll make a dent in ransomware because you're just reducing the attack surface greatly, but also scanning the technology to make sure if you see something, you can act straight away. >> And then pair that with what you guys are doing and the investment that Fortinet's been making for a while in training and helping to fill that cybersecurity skills gap, which is growing year on year. >> Yeah. I speak to a lot of CSOs and CIOs and they go "What's the latest technology? What can you do next?" I say, well, the most important thing you can do is train your people. Train them not to click on that phishing link, right? Because still our numbers are around 6% of employees click on things and it doesn't matter what company you are. And so the education and the training is the one of the core, the most basic steps. We're introducing what we call an IT awareness program as part of NSC, which allows companies to download some tools. And they'll try some phishing emails that go out there, they'll see the response, see how they can (mumbles). So I always say that the people, the social engineering is the first step to try and fix and reduce. That's the biggest attack surface you will have. >> It's getting so sophisticated and so personalized. I mean I've seen examples with training that I've done for various companies where you really have to look 2, 3, 4 times at it and have the awareness alone to know that this might not be legitimate. >> Yeah, especially when people are just clicking on more things because they're going to more places. And so you have to be very careful. You can stop a bunch of that with some rule sets. So the systems, but if they're faking the domain, spear phishing, where they know exactly the context of where the email's coming out, it's hard, but you've just got to be very, very careful. If in doubt don't click on it. >> I agree if in doubt, don't click it. Well, John, it's always great talking to you. Exciting to hear the growth of Fortinet, what you're doing with PGA tour, the synergies there, the cultural synergies and the growth in customers and partners, lots of stuff to come. Can't wait till our next conversation, which I hope is also in person. >> Yes, yes, yes, for sure. You know, I think this is a great venue in that it's- as you can see it's open, which helps a lot. >> Yeah. >> It's not far from our headquarters, just down the road there, we've committed to this event for six or seven years. And so this is our first time, but definitely we're hoping to get out a bit more as we go forward. >> Excellent. I'm glad to see to see a company like Fortinet taking the lead and you look like you're dressed for golf. You said you have meetings, but I'm going to let you go because you probably have to get to that. >> I have a few more meetings. I wish they would leave a little gap for some golf. I'll try and work one as we go forward. >> Yeah. Anyway, John, thank you for joining me, great to see you. For John Madison, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE from the Fortinet Championship Security Summit in Napa. (Upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE, covering Fortinet Security Summit brought to you by Fortinet. >> Welcome to theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin. We are live at the Fortinet Championship, the PGA Tour Kickoff to the 2021-2022 FedEx Regular Season Cup. And this is so exciting to be here with Fortinet, to be at an in-person event, and to be talking about a very important topic of cybersecurity. One of our alumni is back with me, Sandra Wheatley is here, the SVP of Marketing, Threat Intelligence, and Influencer Communications at Fortinet. Sandra, it's great to see you. >> You too, Lisa. Thank you for having me. >> This is a great event. >> Yeah, it's awesome, yeah. >> Great to be outdoors, great to see people again, and great for Fortinet for being one of the first to come back to in-person events. One of the things I would love to understand is here we are at the PGA tour, what's the relationship with Fortinet and the PGA Tour? >> Well, first of all, I think the PGA tour is an amazing brand. You just have to look around here and it's extremely exciting, but beyond the brand, there's a lot of synergies between the PGA tour and Fortinet CSR initiatives, particularly around STEM, diversity inclusion, as well as veterans rescaling. And so some of the proceeds from the Fortinet Championship will go to benefit local nonprofits and the local community. So that's something we're very excited about overall. >> Lisa: Is this a new partnership? >> It is a new partnership and we will be the Fortinet Championship sponsor for about the next five years. So we're looking forward to developing this partnership and this relationship, and benefiting a lot of nonprofits in the future. >> Excellent, that's a great cause. One of the things, when you and I last saw each other by Zoom earlier in the summer, we were talking about the cybersecurity skills gap. And it's in its fifth consecutive year, and you had said some good news on the front was that data show that instead of needing four million professionals to fill that gap, it's down to three, and now there's even better news coming from Fortinet. Talk to me about the pledge that you just announced to train one million people in the next five years. >> Absolutely, we're very excited about this. You know, Fortinet has been focused on reducing the skills gap for many years now. It continues to be one of the biggest issues for cybersecurity leaders if you think about it. You know, we still need about 3.1 million professionals to come into the industry. We have made progress, but the need is growing at about 400,000 a year. So it's something that public and private partnerships need to tackle. So last week we did announce that we are committed to training a million professionals over the next five years. We're very excited about that. We're tackling this problem in many, many ways. And this really helps our customers and our partners. If you really think about it, in addition to the lack of skills, they're really tackling cybersecurity surface that's constantly changing. In our most recent FortiGuard's threat report, we saw that ransomware alone went up 10 times over the last year. So it's something that we all have to focus on going forward. And this is our way of helping the industry overall. >> It's a huge opportunity. I had the opportunity several times to speak with Derek Manky and John Maddison over the summer, and just looking at what happened in the first half, the threat landscape, we spoke last year, looking at the second half, and ransomware as a service, the amount of money that's involved in that. The fact that we are in this, as Fortinet says, this work from anywhere environment, which is probably going to be somewhat persistent with the attack surface expanding, devices on corporate networks out of the home, there's a huge opportunity for people to get educated, trained, and have a great job in cybersecurity. >> Absolutely, I like to say there's no job security like cybersecurity, and it is. I mean, I've only been in this industry about, I'm coming up on six years, and it's definitely the most dynamic industry of all of the IT areas that I've worked in. The opportunities are endless, which is why it's a little bit frustrating to see this big gap in skills, particularly around the area of women and minorities. Women make up about 20%, and minorities are even less, maybe about 3%. And so this is a huge focus of ours. And so through our Training Advancement Agenda, our TAA initiative, we have several different pillars to attack this problem. And at the core of that is our Network Security Expert Training or NSC training and certification program. We made that freely available to everybody at the beginning of COVID. It was so successful, at one point we we're seeing someone register every five minutes. And that was so successful, we extended that indefinitely. And so to date, we've had about almost 700,000 certifications. So it's just an amazing program. The other pillars are Security Academy Program, where we partner with nonprofits and academia to train young students. And we have something like 419 academies in 88 countries. >> Lisa: Wow. >> And then the other area that's very important to us is our Veterans Program. You know, we have about 250,000 veterans every year, transfer out of the service, looking for other jobs in the private sector. And so not only do we provide our training free, but we do resume building, mentoring, all of these types of initiatives. And we've trained about 2,000 veterans and spouses, and about 350 of those have successfully got jobs. So that's something we'll continue to focus on. >> That's such a great effort. As the daughter of a Vietnam combat veteran, that really just hits me right in the heart. But it's something that you guys have been dedicated for. This isn't something new, this isn't something that is coming out of a result of the recent executive order from the Biden administration. Fortinet has been focused on training and helping to close that gap for a while. >> That's exactly true. While we made the commitment to train a million people on the heels of the Biden administration at Cybersecurity Summit about two weeks ago, we have been focused on this for many years. And actually, a lot of the global companies that were part of that summit happened to be partners on this initiative with us. For example, we work with the World Economic Forum, IBM, and Salesforce offer our NSC training on their training platforms. And this is an area that we think it's really important and we'll continue to partner with larger organizations over time. We're also working with a lot of universities, both in the Bay Area, local like Berkeley, and Stanford and others to train more people. So it's definitely a big commitment for us and has been for many years. >> It'll be exciting to see over the next few years, the results of this program, which I'm sure will be successful. Talk to me a little bit about this event here. Fortinet is 100% partner driven company, more than 300 or so partners and customers here. Tell me a little bit about what some of the interesting topics are that are going to be discussed today. >> Sure, yeah, so we're delighted to bring our partners and customers together. They will be discussing some of the latest innovations in cybersecurity, as well as some of the challenges and opportunities. We are seeing, you know, during COVID we saw a lot of change with regards to cybersecurity, especially with remote working. So we'll discuss our partnership with LYNX that we just announced. We'll also be talking about some of the emerging technologies like CTNA, 5G, SASE, cloud, and really understanding how we can best help protect our customers and our partners. So it's very exciting. In addition to our Technology Summit, we have a technology exhibition here with many of our big sponsors and partners. So it's definitely going to be a lot of dynamic conversation over the next few days. >> We've seen so much change in the last year and a half. That's just an understatement. But one of the things that you touched on this a minute ago, and we're all feeling this is is when we all had to shift to work from home. And here we are using corporate devices on home networks. We're using more devices, the edge is expanding, and that became a huge security challenge for enterprises to figure out how do we secure this. Because for some percentage, and I think John Maddison mentioned a few months ago to me, at least 25% will probably stay remote. Enterprises have to figure out how to keep their data secure as people are often the weakest link. Tell me about what you guys announced with LYNX that will help facilitate that. >> Well, we're announcing an enterprise grade security offering for people who are working remotely. And the nice thing about this offering is it's very easy to set up and implement, so consumers and others can easily set this up. It also provides a dashboard for the enterprise, IT organization to, they can see who's on the network, devices, everything else. So this should really help because we did see a big increase in attacks, really targeting remote workers. As cyber criminals try to use their home as a foothold into the enterprise. So we're very excited about this partnership, and definitely see big demand for this going forward. >> Well, can you tell me about the go-to market for that and where can enterprises and people get it? >> Well, we're still working through that. I know you'll talk with John later on, he'll have more details on that. But definitely, we'll be targeting both of our different sets of customers and the channel for this. And I definitely think this is something that will, it's something that enterprises are definitely looking for, and there'll be more to come on this over the next few months. >> It's so needed. The threat landscape just exploded last year, and it's in a- >> Sandra: Yeah, absolutely. >> Suddenly your home. Maybe your kids are home, your spouse is working, you're distracted, ransomware, phishing emails, so legitimate. >> Sandra: They do. >> Lisa: But the need for what you're doing with LYNX is absolutely essential these days. >> Sandra: Yeah, these threats are so sophisticated. They're really difficult. And the other thing we did in addition to LYNX was as we got into COVID, we saw that, or the most successful organizations were really using this as an opportunity to invest for the longterm in cybersecurity. We also saw that, and this continues to be the case that, the insider threat continues to be one of the biggest challenges, where an employee will accidentally hit on a phishing email. So we did roll out an infosec awareness training, and we made that free for all of our customers and partners. So we're trying to do everything we can to really help our customers through this demanding time. >> Lisa: Right, what are some of the feedback that you're hearing from customers? I'm sure they're very appreciative of the education, the training, the focus effort from Fortinet. >> Sandra: Absolutely, it's definitely huge. And more and more we're seeing partners who want to work with us and collaborate with us on these initiatives. We've had a really positive response from some of the companies that I mentioned earlier, some of the big global names. And we're very excited about that. So we feel like we have some key initiatives on pillars, and we'll continue to expand on those and bring more partners to work with us over time. >> Lisa: Expansion as the business is growing amazingly well. Tell me a little bit about that. >> Sandra: Yeah, I think, in our last quarter we announced our largest billings growth for many, many years. And so, Fortinet, we're been very fortunate over the last few years, has continued to grow faster than the market. We now have half a million customers, and I think our platform approach to security is really being adopted heavily. And we continue to see a lot of momentum, especially around our solutions like SD-WAN. I think we're the only vendor who provides security in SD-WAN appliance. And so that's been a key differentiator for us. The other thing that's increasingly important, especially with the rollout of 5G is performance. And, you know, Fortinet, from the very beginning, created its own customized ASX or SPU, which really provides the best performance in security compute ratings in the industry. So all of this is really helping us with our growth, and we're very excited about the opportunities ahead. >> Lisa: And last question, on that front, what are some of the things that you're excited about as we wrap up 2021 calendar year and go into 2022? >> Sandra: Well, this been very exciting year for Fortinet. And I think we're in a great position to take advantage of many of the different growth areas we're seeing in this new and changing space. And, you know, we're all on board and ready to take advantage of those opportunities, and really fire ahead. >> Lisa: Fire ahead, I like that. Sandra, thank you so much for joining me today, talking about the commitment, the long standing commitment that Fortinet has to training everybody from all ages, academia, veterans, to help close that cybersecurity skills gap. And such an interesting time that we've had. There's so much opportunity, and it's great to see how committed you are to helping provide those opportunities to people of all ages, races, you name it. >> Sandra: Thank you, Lisa, I really appreciate it. >> Lisa: Ah, likewise. For Sandra Wheatley, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCube at the Fortinet Championship Security Summit. (soft bright music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to this cube conversation. I'm Lisa Martin. I'm joined by Aamir Lakhani, the Lead Researcher and Cybersecurity Expert at FortiGuard Labs at Fortinet. Aamir, welcome back to theCube. >> Hey, it's always good to be back on. >> It is, even though we're still in this work from anywhere environment, and that's one of the things that I want to talk to you about. We're in this environment now, I've lost count, 16 months, 17 months? And we now have this distribution of folks working still from home, maybe some in the office, and a good portion that probably want to remain remote. And one of the things that, that you guys have seen in this time is this huge uptick and sophistication in phishing attacks. Talk to me about what's going on. >> You know, it's a funny thing you mention that, Lisa, every attack that I've seen in the last 16 months usually has a phishing component, and over the last, even just the last couple of weeks, we've seen some really sophisticated attacks, attacks that are against industrial control systems, against critical infrastructure, against large corporations, government entities, and almost every one of those attacks, whether it's a ransomware attack, whether it's a denial of service attack, usually has a phishing component. And the sad part is usually the initial attack vector, how attackers are getting into the network, a lot of times as the first step is through phishing. And, you know, it works, it's a method that has always worked. It works just as well today as it always did, so attackers are basically going back to the well and basically making their phishing attacks more complicated, and more sophisticated, and it's much more effective than it ever used to be. >> Tell me how they're making it more sophisticated because I know, I've seen interesting examples through Twitter, for example, of people that are very well-versed, you might even consider them cybersecurity experts, who've just almost fallen for a phishing email that looks so legitimate. How is it getting more sophisticated? >> Well, what attackers are doing is they're definitely playing on your emotions. They understand that there's a lot of things happening in the world, and sometimes we get a little emotion about it, whether it's, "Hey, how do you get the latest vaccine?" Maybe information, you know, around getting jobs, going back to work, LinkedIn, is a good example. A lot of people are looking for jobs. When the U.S. elections were happening, and there was a lot of phishing attacks around, political donations, and affiliations. They kind of kind of find these hot button items that they know people are really going to not think first about security, and really think like, "Hey, how do I respond back to this?" and really attack them that way. The other thing that we're seeing on how it's getting complicated is, it used to be like a phishing attack. You know, it used to be pretty simple, like click on a link. Now what they're doing is they're actually targeting organizations and what you do as a job. For example, I've seen a lot of phishing attacks against the HR, the human resource departments, and I feel sad for anyone in human resources because their job all day is to basically open files, and emails from strangers, and that's what attackers are doing. They're like, "Hey, I want to apply for a cybersecurity position. "And by the way, my resume is encrypted. "Please click on this link to see "my secure version of my resume". And when they do that, you know, HR person may be thinking, "Hey, this is a cybersecurity guy, like good. "He's actually sending me an encrypted link." In reality, when they click on that button, it's attacking their machine, and actually getting into their organization. The attacks are getting into the organization. So they're using more and more tricks to actually technically bypass some of the security tools you may have. >> So getting more sophisticated by preying on emotions, and also using technology, and things that an HR person, like you said, would think, "Great, this is the level of sophistication that this applicant has. How do they, how do organizations start reducing those attacks, that are falling victim to these attacks? >> Yeah, so I was thinking, at Fortinet we always mention, like at FortiGuard labs, that training and security awareness is some of the best ways you can protect against this attack. At Fortinet we have our training advancement agenda, that's out of Fortinet.com/training/taa. Basically what that does, well what we emphasize, what we preach, is that training is the key and education is the key, in helping protect against those attacks. And, you know, you can train anyone these days, at least some level of, you know, awareness. My mom used to call me up, and used to tell me like, "Hey, I got the IRS calling me, "should I answer these questions?" I was like, "No, absolutely not, like this is dangerous, "the IRS doesn't call you up and asking you "for your credit card number." I actually had my mum go for our level, one of our training, and she actually gets it. She's like, "Okay, I get why I shouldn't call the, you know, "answer the questions from the IRS now." So I say any type of training, to anyone you can give, and you can start it off like with people in high school, with people in elementary school, all the way up to professionals, I think it helps in all levels. >> So first of all, your mom sounds like my mom, and I need to get my mom to do this training, I really do. But one of the things that kind of highlights is the fact that there are five generations in the workforce. So there, and in every industry, there is a huge variety of people that understand technology, and know to be suspicious. And that's one of the things I think that's challenging for organizations, because if a lot of that responsibility falls on the person, the more sophisticated, the more personalized this phishing email is, the more likely I'm to think this is legitimate instead of questioning it. So that training that you're talking about, tell me a little bit more about that. You mentioned a variety of ages and generations, that folks as young as high school kids, and then folks in our parents' generation can also go on and learn how to navigate through basic emails, for example, to look for, to see what to look for. >> Yeah, it's not only emails. So attackers, like I said, they are getting sophisticated. We are seeing phishing attacks, not only through emails, but through applications, mobile applications. There's actually like some advanced phishing techniques now on smart speakers. When you ask your smart speaker, a certain skill like, "Hey, tell me my balance, "tell me what the weather is." There's like some phishing attacks there. So there's phishing attacks all across the board. Obviously, when we talk about phishing we're mostly talking about email attacks, but every generation kind of has their tools kind of has their, you know, techniques or apps that they're comfortable with. So, and we're trained, like a lot of my friends are trained to basically click on any app, download any app, allow, they don't really read the pop-ups that say like, "Do you want to share information?" They'll just start sharing information. People in the workforce, like sometimes that are not paying attention, they're just clicking on emails, and attackers realize this, most of the time when attacks happen, it's not when you're paying attention. It's like when we're on our Zoom calls, and we're actually like looking at our phones, looking at emails, multitasking, and that's when your attention kind of diverts a little bit, And that's when attackers are really jumping in, and really trying to take advantage of that situation. And that's, I think that's a good idea about the training is because it opens up your eyes to understand, hey, it's more about just emails, it's really about every way we can use technology, can be a vector on how we get attacked, and we have a couple of good examples on that as well. >> Let's talk about that, cause I want to see how easy it is for the bad actors to create phishing attacks. You were saying, it's not just email, it's through apps, it's through my smart speaker, which is one of the reasons I don't have one. But talk to me about how easy it is for them to actually set these up. >> Yeah, so we have, I think we have a demo we can show, an example that we can show, of what's going on. And what I'm showing here is basically how easy you can download proof of concept apps. Now, what I'm showing here is actually a defensive tool, it's for defenders, and people that want to test for security on testing, phishing, and how susceptible their organization may be to phishing. But you can see like attackers could do something very similar. This tool is called Black Eye. And what it does is allows me to create multiple different types of phishing websites. I can create a custom one, or I can use a template that's already created. Once I use this template, for example I'm using the LinkedIn template here, it's going to create a website for me. It already, this website, I can embed into a link if I was, if I was potentially a bad guy, I could hide it behind a link. I could potentially change the website to make it look more like LinkedIn. But when I go to the LinkedIn fake website, this phishing website, which is hosted, you'll see, it kind of looks like LinkedIn. It actually has that little security box, that little green box, because it generates a certificate as well. And when I go to the real LinkedIn website, yes, the real LinkedIn website does look a little different. It's using a more updated template, a more updated website, but most people aren't going to notice the difference between the real LinkedIn website, and here, where we have the fake LinkedIn website. And I'll just show you like, if I log in and I'm going to log in with a demo account, this is actually a honeypot demo account that we have, just to showcase this tool. But I'll log in here, and you'll see from our test box, as soon as we log in, and we go back to the attacker's point of view, he's captured the username, the password, but not only that he has the IP address, the ISP, the location of where the victim is coming from. So they have a lot of different types of information that they've captured. And this is just one simple way of doing the attack. Now, one thing to remember, I know I speak very fast, but at the same time, this is real time. I didn't like copy and paste anything, I just recorded this in real time, and replayed this. And this is how easy it is for an attacker to potentially start setting up a system where they can attack victims. >> That's remarkable, because I mean, I'm in LinkedIn every day, and I don't know, you talked about, we're all busy, multitasking, and things like that. I don't know that I would've, nothing that you showed caught my attention. So how would I know to, what would I know to look for as a user, as a potential victim? How do I look for something on that page to tell me "think twice about this? >> Yeah, it's getting much more difficult these days. I mean, one of the things that I do is I try and make sure I type in like the addresses, especially when I get links in emails, I try not to like, just click on the link directly. I try and look at what's behind that link, is it really going to the LinkedIn website, you know, I'll try and go ahead and type in it, type in the website in the web browser. But mostly I think the thing that we can do to all protect ourselves is like kind of slow down. One of the reasons I mentioned LinkedIn is not because LinkedIn is doing anything bad. They're actually taking a lot precautions on being secure. But you know, people, these days are very emotion, they're going back to work, they're maybe looking for new jobs, or they're trying to get back into the workforce after a pandemic. So there's a lot of people that are getting phishing attacks from attackers, and it's a really mean thing. They're taking once again, advantage of that emotion, like someone needs a job, so let me go ahead and send them a LinkedIn link, and this time they're just stealing their username and passwords. >> That's remarkable. I think another thing you can do, can you hover over the link, and if it looks suspicious, if it doesn't go to like linkedin.com, for example, in this case, that's one way, right, is to check out what that actual URL is. >> Yeah, absolutely, and that's a great way of doing that, so we definitely recommend that. Look at the, hover over the link, look over the links, type in the links directly if you can. And you can see like, you know, attackers are getting sophisticated.. We used to tell people, look for that green lock box, attackers can now generate that green lockbox, so you have to do a little more due diligence. Just keep your eyes a little sharper these days. >> Do you thing phishing is, and I know a lot of us understand what it is, but do you think it's as common ransomware was up? I think Derek told me 7X in the second half of calendar year, 2020, Is phishing becoming more of a household word like ransomware is? Or is that something that you think actually will help more organizations, and more people and more generations be just more aware of let me just take a step back, and check that this is legitimate. >> Yeah, so phishing, you have to remember is it's like the initial attack. So the demo that I just showed you, you could say the true attack was me possibly stealing the username and password, but a phishing would be the way that someone would get to get to that. Like by essentially mimicking the LinkedIn website, as I showed in the example. So ransomware is an attack, it's the main attack. Usually the attack that attackers are going for, but how they get into the system is usually through a phishing site. They'll usually try and phish your username and password to your corporate site, maybe your VPN services, or your remote desktop services. So phishing is usually in conjunction with another attack, and that's the scary part is attackers have a lot of attacks that you can choose from, but the attacks that they're normally normally conducting to get that initial access to your system is phishing. >> So besides training, which is obviously absolutely critical, how can organizations protect themselves against this threat landscape that I imagine is only going to continue to grow? >> Yeah, no, it's definitely going to continue to grow. And as I said, I really believe education is the best thing you can do. But on top of that, you know, just I would say, you know, cyber hygiene. The basic things that we always mention every time, it was like, make sure like your security products are up to date, make sure they're installed, make sure your patches are up to date, which is very difficult, but that does start helping things. Make sure you're using the latest version of your web browser. There's a lot of web browsers these days has some sort of anti-phishing type of tools in them as well, especially for websites. So they can kind of detect things. There's a once again, a lot of just even free plugins, security plugins, that are available, that kind of detect a lot of phishing sites as well. So there's a lot of things I think people can do to protect themselves from a technology standpoint. You know, with basic cyber hygiene, as well as security awareness. >> So you think this is really preventable, essentially. >> I don't think it's 100% preventable, because I think, you know, attackers are always going to take advantage of those times in our emotion when our emotions are heightened, and they're going to take advantage of just us sometimes like not paying as much attention to as we can. But I think you can definitely reduce that attack surface. The more we educate ourselves. >> Absolutely, tell me that training website again. >> Sure things, so it's basically Fortinet.com/training/taa. >> Excellent, and can you access different levels? Like if I literally point my mom to that website, can she access something that would be at her 75 year old brain level? >> Absolutely, so we have different levels out there. I would suggest that I go trying, everyone should try basically Level 1, NSC Level 1. That's our Security Institute. So that's really good awareness for everyone on all sorts of different levels. But we have training, geared towards specific individuals, and different age groups as well. >> Excellent, and it's one of those things that culturally is difficult I think for Americans, slow down, right? We don't do that, especially when people are still working from home, and probably now it's summertime, kids are out of school, things are a little bit more chaotic. That that best practice of an organization really keeping up with their cyber hygiene and us as individuals slowing down, checking something are really some of the best ways. Aamir, this is such an interesting topic. Thank you for showing us how easy it is to create phishing attacks, and what some of the things are that we as individuals, and companies can do to protect ourselves against it. >> Hey, no problem, glad to be here. >> For Aamir Lakhani, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching this Cube conversation. (soft music)

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world this is a cube conversation everyone welcome to this cube conversation here in the cubes Palo Alto Studios we're here with the quarantine crew I'm John for your host we've got a great guest John Madison CMO an EVP of products of Fortinet and today more than ever in this changing landscape accelerating faster and faster certainly as this covin 19 crisis has forced business to realize a lot of the at scale problems are at hand and a lot of things are exposed in terms of problems and opportunities you have to take care of one of them security John thanks for coming on cube and looking forward to chatting about your recent event you had this week and also the updates at Florida thanks for joining me yeah it's great to be here John so more than ever the innovation strategies are not just talking points anymore in board meetings or companies there's they actually have to come out of this pandemic and operate through it with real innovation with actionable outcomes they've got to get their house in order you're seeing projects really focusing in on the at scale problems which is essentially keep the network's run and keep the sick the security fabric in place this is critical path stuff but the innovation coming out of it has to be a growth play for companies and this has been a big thing so you guys are in the middle of it we've chatted about all the four to guard stuff and all this you're seeing all the traffic you're seeing all the all the impact this work at home has forced companies to not only deal to new realities but it's exposed some things they need to double down on and things they need to either get rid of or fix fast what's your take on all this yeah you know I think it took a lot of people by surprise and the first thing I would like to do is you know spank our employees our customers and partners for the work they've done in the last six to seven weeks now what was happening was a lot of customers had built their work from home programs around a certain percentage 5% 10% 15% and that's what they scaled it for then all of a sudden you know everybody had to work from home and so you went from maybe a thousand people to 10,000 or 5,000 to 50,000 they had to scale very quickly because this had to be implemented in hours and days not weeks and months luckily our systems are able to gaile very quickly we can scale using a security processing units which offload the CPU and allow a lot of users simultaneously to access through VPN SSL VPN IPSec VPN and then we have an implementation at home ranging from a very simple Microsoft Wyant all the way to our clients all the way to even off Buda gate firewalls at home so we really did work very hard to make sure that our customers could maintain their business proposition during these times you know I want to get those work at home and I think it's a little big Sdn story and you guys have been on for a long time I mean we've talked with your you and your folks many times around st Wynn and what it means to to have that in place but this work at home those numbers are off the charts strange and this is disruption this was an unforeseen disruption it's not like a hurricane or flood this is real and we've also talked with you guys and your team around the endpoint you know the edge of the network that's the explosion of the billions of edges this is just an industry kind of inside baseball conversation and then also the immersion of the lifestyle we now live in so you have a world where it was inside baseball for this industry now every company and everyone's feeling it this is a huge issue I'm at home I got to protect myself I got data I gotta have a VPN I mean this is a reality that just wasn't seen I mean what do you guys are what are you guys doing in this area well I think it changes that this long-term architect and so you know the past we talked about there being millions of edges and people go how many billions of edges and what's happened is if you're working from home that's an edge and so the long term architecture means that companies need to take care of where their network edges are now the SEM at home they had them at the branch office they have them at the end of prize and the data center in the cloud then we need to decide know where to apply the security is it at the endpoint is it at the edges is the data center or bout an S T one is absolutely essential because every edge you'll have whether that were home now whether it be in your data center or eCampus on the cloud needs that st-1 technology and make sure you can guide the applications in a secure manner what's interesting is I actually deployed st-1 in my home here I've got two ISP connections one week I'm casting off with AT&T now that may be overkill right now for most people about putting st-1 in their homes but I think long-term homes are gonna be part of the enterprise network it's just another eight take a minute to explain the SD win I would call it the this is a mill especially this is not your grandfather's st win I mean it's changed st when is the internet I mean basically at home what does that mean if users don't know care what the products are at the end of the day they're working at home so kind of SD win has taken on a new broader scope if you will it's not just the classic SD win or is it can you take us through I mean and this is a category that's becoming much broader what's your what's your nails is there yeah again I'm not saying that you know consumers are gonna be putting SD wine in the homes right now but if I'm an executive and I rely on my communication out there are lots of meetings during the day work from home I want it to be as reliable as possible so if my one is pee goes down and I can't get on the internet that's an issue if I have to ISPs I have much higher availability but more importantly us you and I can guide the applications where I want when they want I can make sure you know my normal home traffic goes off certain direction the certain on a VLAN and segmentation policy whereas my war can be completely set out so again I you know I think SDRAM technology is important for the home long term is important for the branch for the enterprise and the data center and Earls St ones built into all up all our forty gates have sp1 you just switch it on we think it's a four essential technology going forward to drive that cloud on-ramp real quick follow-up on that for the folks in the enterprise I see the enterprise will make it easier for their customers their users who are at home so it feels consumer II invisible if you will I think that's the short-term what's what are what are you seeing your customers and prospective customers thinking when they come back or as they operate now in this new reality when they say you know what we really miss forecasted this now they have to get back to business what are they gonna do do they do more sta on I mean what's the architecture how does that get done what's the conversation like you know as this evolved for the next it's gonna slowly open up it still it's going to be a new reality for at least 12 months what's the conversation with the customer right now when it comes to going in and taking care of this so it doesn't happen again yeah what I'm doing actually actually what I'm doing a lot of virtual ABC's obviously we usually have 200 our customers that come to our corporate quarters or executive briefings and I'm doing actually more virtually and a lot of the opening conversations is they don't think they're gonna go completely Hunter's under percent back to where they were there's always going to be now a fraction of work-from-home people they may move around some of their physical location so as I said the ST when is that piece on the edge whether it be your home ranch campus or data centers gonna be there to guide the applications guide the users and devices to the right applications of wherever they may be as it could be in the cloud of communion data center it could be anywhere and then the key conversation thereafter for customers long-term architecture wise is where do I apply my security stack and the security spat consists of basic things like antivirus all right yes more detection capabilities even even response to Isis given that stack how much do I put in the edge how much do I put in my endpoint how much do I put my branch how much I put in my campus data center and cloud and then how do I maintain a policy a single policy across all of those and then now and again maybe I have to move that stack cross so that's going to be the key long term architecture question for enterprises as they move to a slightly different composition of workforce in different locations is hey I've got to make sure every edge that I have I identify and I secure when SP ran and then how do I apply the security stack cross all the diff tell great insight thanks for sharing that I want to get your take on now speaking of working at home you're also the CMO as well as the EVP of products which is a unique job because you can talk about any think when the cube we love it you had an event accelerate 2020 the folks watching go to the hashtag on Twitter hashtag accelerate 20 that's the hash tag you'll see a lot of the the pictures of the slides and some commentary I was laying down some tweets all the analysts were as well what are some of the highlights for you is a great presentation by the CEO you gave a talk and there's a lot of breakouts you had to do a digital event because you couldn't hold the physical event so you kind of had a shelter-in-place kind of and how did it go and what are some of the highlights yeah on the one side I was a bit sad you know we had or what we call accelerates arrange for this year in Barcelona and New York Mexico and San Jose we had to cancel war for them and I'm very quickly spin up a digital event a virtual event and you know we end up there's some initial targets around you know you know each of our physical events we get between two and three thousand and so we're thinking you know if we got to ten thousand this would be great we actually ended up with thirty thirty-two thousand or something like that registered and actually the percentage that showed off was even higher so we had over 20,000 people actually come online and go through our keynotes we built it so you go through the keynotes then you can go off to the painting what we call the breakouts for more detail we did verticals oh it did more technology sessions and so it's great and you know we tried our best to answer the questions online because these things are on demand we had three we had one for the u.s. one premiere and won't write back and so there was times but to get that sort of exposure to me is amazing twenty thousand people on there listening and it connects into another subject which is education and fun yet for some time as invested I would say you know my CEO says but I'll invest a bit more in education versus the marketing advertising budget now go okay okay that's that hey we'll work on that but education for us we announced a few weeks ago that education is now training is free for customers for everybody and we'd also been you know leading the way by providing free training for our partners now it's completely free for everybody we have something called the network security expert which goes from one to eight one and two of that are actually open to the public right now and if I go to the end of last year we had about two to three thousand people maybe a week come on and do the training obviously majority doing the NSC one courses you get further through to eight it's more technical last week we had over eighty thousand people we just think about those numbers incredible because people you know having more time let's do the training and finding is as they're doing this training going up the stack more quickly and they're able to implement their tools more quickly so training for us is just exploded off the map and I and there's a new reality of all the unemployment and also people are at home and there's a lot of job about the skill gap before in another cube conversation it's it's more apparent than ever and why not make it free give people some hope give them some tools to be successful there's demand yes and it's not you know it's not just them you know IT professionals are Ennis e1 is a foundational course and you'll see kids and students and universities doing it and so Ben Mars granddad's dad's doing it so we we're getting all sorts of comments and social media about the training you know our foundation great stuff has a great we'll put a plug on that when should we get that amplified for its really good stuff I got to ask you about the event one of the things I really like about the presentation was from your CEO and you gave one as well was the clarity around the vision of security and a couple of things that were notable to me was the confluence of the collision between networking and security and at the intersection of those two forces you have an accelerated integrated policy dynamic to me this is the heart of DevOps of what used to be in cloud being kind of applied to security you have data you got all kinds of new things emerging new patterns new signals that's security so you got to be you got to be fast you got to identify things so you guys are in this business that's one force and the other one was the billions of edges and this idea that there's no perimeter so it's everything's immersive so illustrate some points of validation on that from your standpoint is that how you guys are seeing it unfold in the future is that happening now can you give us a feeling for whether where we are and that those those kind of paradigms yeah good point so I think it's been happening it's happening now has been happening the future you know if you look at networking and our CEO Enzi talked about this and that networking hasn't really cheer outing and switching we go back to 2000 we had 100 mega under megabit now you have formed a gigabit but the basic function we haven't really changed that much securities different we've gone from a firewall and we add VPN then we at next-gen firewall then we had SSL inspection now we've added sd1 and so this collisions kind of an equal in that you know networking's sped ahead and firewalling is stayed behind because it's just got too many applications on that so the basic principle premise of the company of putting net is to build and bring that together so it's best of all accelerate the basic security network security functions so you can consolidate multiple functions on one system and then bring networking and security together a really good example of security where or nexium firewall where you can accelerate and so our security processing units and my analogy simple analogy is GPUs inside games where their GPU offloads CPU to allow rendering to happen very quick it's the same for us RSP use way of a network SPU and we have a Content SPU which all flows the CPU to allow a security and networking do it be accelerated work now coming to your second point about the perimeter I I'm not quite sure whether the perimeters disappear and the reason I say that is customer still goes they have firewalls on the front of the networks they have endpoint protection they have protection in the cloud so it's not that the perimeters disappeared it's just but much larger and so now the perimeters sitting across all your infrastructure your endpoints your in factories you got IOT devices you've got workloads in different powered and that means you need to look very carefully at those and give visibility initially and then apply the control that control maybe it's a ten-point security it may be SD mine at the edge it may be a compliance template in the cloud but you need visibility of all those edges which have been created with the perimeters reading across the image it's interesting you bring up a good point we always have kind of debates over beers on this on this topic you know the old model was mote you know get the castle and the gate but here the perimeter of the edge if you believe there's an edge and I do believe you find it perfectly the edge is a perimeter it's an endpoint right so it's a door into the internet so are the network so is the perimeter just an end adorn there's more doors right so or service yeah just think about it the castle would did multiple doors is the back everyone's the door there's this dozle someday and you have to define those H's and have visibility of them and that's why things like network access control know for you know zero trust network access is really important making sure you kind of look at the edge inside your way and so your data center and then it's like you powd what workloads are spinning off and what's the configuration and what's there what's from a data perspective right your recommendation and I'm a customer looking at my network I got compute I got edge devices and users I realized there's a billions of edges on my network now and the realities hit me I wasn't really being proactive on investing what do I do what's the PlayBook for me as I start to rethink that and what do I put into place how do I get going now I got to rethink it I now recognize I got full validation I got to manage this I got to do something what's your recommendation to me if I'm a customer the key to me is and I've had this conversation now for the last five years and it's getting louder and louder and that is I suppose I spend a lot of money on point solution point but even end point may have five point products on there and so they're getting to the conclusion it's just too hard to manage I can't find all the right people I get so many alerts from so many security systems I can't work out what's going on and the conversation now is how do I deploy a platform we call it the security fabric now I don't deploy that fabric across my network I'm not saying you should go from 30 vendors to one vendor that would be nice of course but I what I'm saying as you go from 30 vendors down to maybe five or six platform the platform's perform multiple functions it could be they're out there you attach a platform a designer platform just birth protector or a particular organization or part of the network and so the platform allows you then to build automation and the automation allows you to see things more quickly and react to things more quickly and do things without manual intervention the platform approach it's absolutely starting to resonate yes you've still got very very large customers who put everything into segments of a C's Exedra book most customers now moving towards a yeah I think you know as you see and again back to that collision with the end of the intersection we have integrated policies if you're gonna do any integration which is the data problem so we talk about all the time to a lot of different tools can create silos and there's a use case for that but also creates problematic situations I mean a platform gives you a much more robust capability to be adaptive to be real time to program and automate yeah it's it's it's an issue if you've got 30 vendors and just be honest it's also an issue in the industry so I mean networking the story kind of worked out how to work together you can use the same different vendor switches and routers and they roughly work together with cybersecurity they've all been deal you know built totally separately not to even work and that's why you've got these multiple layers you've got a product the security problem then this got its own analytics engine and manager then you've got a manager of managers and an analyzer of analyzers and the sim system and then a saw I mean just goes on it makes it so complex for people and that's why I think they look into something a bit more simplified but most importantly the platform must be friendly from a consumption model you must be able to do an appliance where you need to do virtual machine SAS cloud native container whatever it may be because that network has changed in those ages as those edges move you've got them to have a platform that adaptable to the consumption model require you know I had a great cartridge with Phil Quaid you see your seaso over there and we were chatting around you know this idea of I won't say customization but there's no one turnkey monolithic application it seems to these platforms tend to be enabling where the seaso trend is to have teams building ok and and and almost a customized but building software to automate to solve their use case for their outcome so enabling that is a trend we're seeing so I think you guys are on the right track there any comment on your take on this enabling platform is that something that you guys are seeing that CSIS is looking at more in-house development more use case focus because they have the data they got real-time they need to be building on a platform not told what they could do yeah I think you've always had this this network team trying to build things fast and open and the security team trying to post things down and make it more secure you know it becomes even more problematic if you kind of go to the cloud where you've got pockets a developer's kind of thing do things in the DevOps way really as fast as possible and sometimes the controls are not put in place in fact no the big as I said the biggest issue for the cloud is not so much you know malware it it's more about miss configuration that's why you're seeing the big breaches and that's more of a customer thing to do and so I think what the seaso is trying to do is make sure they apply the controls appropriately and again their job has become much harder now we've got all the multitude of endpoints that they didn't have before they've got now there when that's not just the closed MPLS network is old off different types of broadband 5 G's coming towards the end of this year next year as well the data centers may have decreased a bit but they've still got datacenter capacity and they're probably got 5 or 6 hours and 20 different SAS applications that put a deal with and they've got to deal with developers in there so it's a harder job for them and they need to melt or add those tools but come back to that single point of management great stuff John Madison CMO EVP great insight there it's almost a master class right there you laid it all out on what's going on a final question any change is what any other news updates on the four net front I know you guys got some answer I didn't see the breakouts of the session I had something else going on I think I've been walking dog and do some other things but you know being at home and to take care of things what's new what's what's out that people might have missed that's coming out of for today you're telling me you didn't have 60 hour a breakout on dedicated I don't think yeah we've you know we've have a lot going on you know we have a big R&D team here in North America and Canada and with a lot of products coming out this time of the year we bring out our 40 OS network operating system with 6.4 over 300 new features inside there including new orchestration systems for sp1 and then also we actually launched on network processor seven and the board gate already 200 F powered by four network processor sevens it's some system out there and provide over 800 gigs of fire or capacities but in bill V explain acceleration they can do things like elephant flows huge flows of data so there's always there's always new products coming out of 14 it sure those are the two big ones for this quarter you guys certainly are great interviews to talk to great a lot of expertise there final final question you know everyone every company's got their culture Moore's laws cadence of Moore's laws Intel faster cheaper smaller what's the for Annette culture if you had to kind of boil it down what's it you guys are always pushing great products out there all high quality I'll see security you got to be buttoned up and have good ops and controls but you still need to push the envelope and have stadia what's the culture if you had to kind of boil the culture down for Porter net what would it be that's always an interesting question and so the company's been going since 2000 okay the founders are still there NZ's CEO and Michael Z's the CTO and I think that one of the philosophies is that listen to the customer very closely because you can get distracted by shiny objects all over the place I want to go and do this oh yeah let's build this what about this and in the end the customer and and what they want may get lost and so we listen very closely we use you know we have a very high content of technology people who can translate the customer use case into what we should build and so I think that's the culture we have and maintain that so we're very close to our customers we've been building very quickly for them make sure it works it needs tweaking then we'll look at it again a very very customer driven always great to hear from the founders you guys had a great event accelerate 20 that's the hashtag some great highlights on Twitter some commentary there and of course go to Ford a net site to check out the replays Sean man so thanks for taking the time to share your insights here on the cube conversation I really appreciate it thank you okay it's cube concert here in Palo Alto we're bringing you all the interviews during this time we have our quarantine crew the cube is virtual we'll do whatever it takes to get the interviews out there and get the stories out there and the people behind the tech making it happen I'm John Fourier thanks for watching [Music]

>> Narrator: Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE... covering Accelerate '19. (electronic music) Brought to you by Fortinet. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We are at Fortinet Accelerate 2019 in Orlando, Florida. I'm Lisa Martin with Peter Burris. We've been here all day talking with Fortinet executives, with partners, really understanding the evolution of cybersecurity and how they are helping customers to combat those challenges to be successful. We're pleased to welcome back to theCUBE alumni John Bove, the VP of North America's channel for Fortinet. John welcome back to the program. >> Thanks for having me, great to see you both again. >> Likewise, so, so much going on today, some news coming out. The keynote this morning started with a lot of electricity around Fortinet's industry leadership, product leadership, there was a lot of growth numbers shared >> John: Yup >> There's also a lot of people here about close to four thousand. >> John: Close to four thousand people, yup. >> And you saying that a good percentage of that is partners, forty countries represented. What are some of the things from your perspective, that you've observed today, in terms of the reaction from the channel to all of this news coming out. >> Yeah so first off, the heritage of this event really was a partner conference going back to its infancy and you know as Fortinet continues to grow and our customer profile continues to you know, move up market, we've now invited customers. So it's really great the synergy that we have. We've got a number of partners with their customers coming to meetings and meeting with executives, and so it's just really fantastic. You know relative to the announcements about the partner program, we've seen really positive feedback. I think the program was introduced about a decade ago and it really was time for a refresh, and so, what we've done is, we want to bring a program to our partner community that, allows them to engage with us in how they see fit, and then we want to build the go to market that's a little bit more in tune with the market that exists here, as we're moving into the year 2020 and beyond. So we're really assimilating a reseller, MMSP and Cloud as types of partner go to markets, and organizing that all underneath the Fortinet partner program umbrella. We'll also be introducing a consultancy track because we want to insure that the assets within the network security expert program are available to those consultants that are working with customers on their journey to the Cloud, for instance, or through this digital transformation. And then finally we're introducing what we're calling a competency focus. So as Fortinet continues to grow as a company there's a number of competencies that we feel if we enable partners appropriately they're going to be able to benefit from. They're going to build a stronger business around the Fortinet Security Fabric. So, we're going to focus on SD-WAN, we're going to focus on Fabric, we're going to focus on Data Center, operational technologies and then S.A.C., because we do think, you know, S.A.C. operations, is an area, that cybersecurity and the number of tool sets are introduced, it's an area that we need to grow into as a company as well. >> Lots going on. >> Lot's going on, yes. >> So as you consider some of the challenges that your partners face, we talked a little bit about this with Patrice, partners, throughout the industry are hurting as they try to transition from a more traditional hardware to whatever's going to be the steady state, >> John: That's right >> with the Cloud and the Edge having such an impact. Education is crucial. You not just get your customers educated about how cybersecurity works, but your partners need to be increasingly educated so they can find those opportunities, niches, stay in business, help you engage, how's that playing out? >> My number one initiative as the channel leader is to drive partner competency and preference. And so, going back to competency, if we can build partner competencies, they're going to build a healthier, more margin rich business around the Security Fabric, which then, selfishly, is going to lead them to delivering more preference around Fortinet. But there's no doubt, it's a changing dynamics. Business models are changing on the fly. We're seeing evolution of VAR to MSP, and MSP to MSSP, and we are laser focused on capitalizing that. Our FortiSIEM technology for instance is, I really view as a Beachhead technology for us to go capitalize that MSP market in the mid-market. I think that the evolution of consumption to more of a consumption model away from a transactional acquisition, also lends itself to new and innovative programs that need to be delivered. In fact with our North American distributors, in the past six months, we've introduced hardware as a service, to reduce, you know, to position things as an operational expense, which may be more in tune with how customers are purchasing today, and we've introduced FortiSIEM for MSSP. The evolution of VAR to a service provider can be very capital intensive, and so one of the things that we've done with our hardware as a service and FortiSIEM for MSSP, we've really tried to reduce the cost of the entry point, and drive more day one margin opportunity for those partners. >> Let me build on that if I may Lisa, so Ken and Mike have done a pretty phenomenal job of steering Fortinet into the future and anticipating some of the big changes that have occurred. You guys have therefore pretty decent visibility into how things are going to play out, and are now large enough that your actually participating in making the future that >> Right >> Everybody else is thinking about. When you introduce a product, I mean, it takes a period of time for your partners to get educated, to up-skill, to really set themselves up to succeed in this dynamic world. Are you introducing educational regimens, competency tests, providing advice and council about the new competencies they're going to need, in anticipation to some of these, some of the roadmap of the, to the future that you see? >> Yeah, so two things I'll touch on there is you know, the NSC program has been wildly successful program for ... >> Peter: No what does NSE stand for? >> Network Security Expert so it's a training course where for a partner and you've got new team members coming on board, the NSE113 really enables them of how to position, you know, Fortinet, and what the challenges are in a network in a cybersecurity environment today. With the elements four through eight being more technical. We've seen over 200,000 certifications being adopted globally, so, I think, part of the visionary capabilities that Michael and Ken have, is they've incorporated the education piece of it, and so carrying that along, and so as we do introduce new products, it's built into the NSE modules. I'll point to one of the most successful things we did in 2018 was called Fast Tracks, and so we've basically taken the NSE content and put it into consumable two hour, hands on, technical labs for our partners and customers. We had a goal in 2018 to hit about a thousand people going through the Fast Track program, we hit over eight thousand people. So, we know that there is a thirst for knowledge out there and the company's done a really good job, through the NSE program, the Network Security Expert Program, through out Network Security Academy Program, and through our Fast Tracks to drive that necessary enablement. >> Peter: That's very exciting. >> Yeah I know absolutely, I mean, it's a fantastic time to be at Fortinet, its a fantastic time to be a Fortinet partner, and I think with the announcements that we made today, we're really trying to set our partners up for success, and help them build a all encompassing business around the Security Fabric. It's a very noisy industry out there. There's a lot of point based solutions that, that lack the integration and really you need an integrated set of solutions in this, you know, expanding digital footprint that customers are faced with. >> So when we talk about education and I'm glad that you guys brought that up, that was a big topic, it was a pillar that Ken talked about, that Patrice talked about as well, it was one of the core pillars that was talked about at the World Economic Forum that was just a couple of months ago. So as we talk about education and educating your partners, I'd like to kind of flip that and ask how are your partners educating you on, these are the trends and concerns and the issues that we're seeing in the market today, to help influence the direction of Fortinet's technology? >> Yup, you know it's funny that you say that, I've been in partner meetings all day today, and it's great I get to spend, I don't think I've ever been this popular and definitely not in high school or college, but in spending time with partners and understanding their challenges it's good to see that our focus on the competency and preference and providing consumption modeling, fits to exactly the challenges that they're faced with, because VARS will tell you that the transition from being a reseller to an MSP can be very, very expensive. And so, with FortiSIEM for MSSP and the as of service offerings, we're reducing that. And so, there are , they're resonating to that. But the other thing is, for the mid-market customer, the Security Fabric alleviates the need for the Cyber skills gap, right? We can't hire fast enough, and so, by depending upon the broad integrated and automated posture that this Fortinet Security Fabric allows, it really allows partners and customers to overcome some of the challenges, just from a head count standpoint. And I think that the NSE program also does a very good job of filling that gap as well. >> So the partner used to mean, these are the, for that group of customers, who our direct sales organization can't make money on, we will give them to partners, or the very, very large, for a very, very large company that's owned by Accenture or owned by Dimension Data, or something like that, >> Yup >> We'll work with them and deliver it. And that kind of middle was kind of lost. But even today, that Loewen, that idea of segmenting purely on the basis of how big they are, is problematic because there's a lot of small companies happening because of this digital transformation they're going to very rapidly grow into some very, very big footprints. >> Absolutely >> So how is that line between what Fortinet does, what the partner does, what the customer does, to achieve these outcomes, starting to shift? >> We're going to be introducing an ecosystem based approach. It's called Partner to Partner Connect, and it is to actually do that very thing. For those partners that may be in the mid-market, that need those expertise, we're going to allow partners to create almost a marketplace of service offerings so they can fill their gaps and they can build meaningful practices, leveraging what Fortinet is doing, but also leveraging somewhat some of our other partners are doing. We're seeing this immediately done with our distribution partners, in North America, and we're going to be introducing the Partner to Partner Connect later this year, and accessible through our Partner Portal. >> And those competencies that are associated with the NSE and the education, then become part of those Partner to Partner brands >> John: Absolutely >> Which makes it easy for those partners to be more trustworthy of whatever accommodations they put together to serve customers. >> Yup, I'll give you an example. So, we're also going to be announcing tomorrow afternoon in our North America breakout session, a Cloud Channel Initiative, and so our goal with this Cloud Channel Initiative, is to allow partners to build meaningful security and networking businesses in the public Cloud. We're going to utilize blueprints for reference architectures, we're going to align with education and certification, and then we're going to guide them through enablement to go to market. That's one of the things also we released this week was the NSE7 for public and private Cloud. So again, as we introduce new technologies and we introduce new opportunities, we're also aligning that to education as well, so the partners can be self service, because the better job a partner does is developing that competency , then the more services rich they're going to be able to deliver to the end customer themselves. >> What are some of your expectations in terms of FY19, I know this is a 20% year on your growth that Fortinet as a company achieved last year, I imagine a good amount of that was driven and influenced by the channel, but as this momentum continues to grow, as we saw this morning, and we've heard throughout this show today, what are some of your expectations about growing the number of partners in the programs that you talked about, like by the end of this year? >> Yes, we recognize, you know, first of all we appreciate our partners so much, and we want to ensure that we are enabling their business we're absolute in active recruitment mode. You know, we're currently going through recruitment and reactivation campaigns with partners that we want or maybe have done business with us before. We see we're coming off of a quarter in which we set a record for the most deal registrations and so that's really the metric in which we look for partner impact. They bring us an opportunity, we give them additional margin and we protect them. So, Q1, fiscal Q1 for us, was our largest deal registration quarter we've ever had. And in 2018 we saw a 52% increase in closed opportunities through our deal registration program. So the impact of the North American Channel is absolutely being felt and we're really excited about the new partner program and what it's going to allow us to do as we expand more into the MSP market, more into the Cloud market, and then hopefully go enable that whole consultancy layer that's out there as well, to help customers on their journey. >> So in terms of your session tomorrow, 'Transforming Your Profitability with Fortinet's Tailor Made Programs,' you mentioned some of the new announcements, what are like the top three take aways that attendees from that session are going to walk away with? >> Well it's going to be, we want to drive partner initiated revenue, we want to do that through competency development, through Widespace account penetration, and through meaningful investments that allow our partners to scale their business. >> Lisa: Lot of momentum, John thank you so much for visiting with Peter and me on theCUBE this afternoon, we can't wait to hear what great news you have next year. >> I look forward to it, thank you both. >> Excellent, our pleasure. For Peter Burris, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE. Covering Accelerate 19. Brought to you by Fortinet. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We are live in Orlando, Florida for Fortinet Accelerate 2019. I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host for the day Peter Burroughs. Peter and I are pleased to welcome back to theCUBE Patrice Perche, the senior executive vice president of world wide sales and support from Fortinet. Patrice, it's a pleasure to have you, fresh from the Keynote Stage, here on theCUBE program. >> Yeah, well thank you for inviting me here. It's a great opportunity. >> So lots of people this morning and an energy infused keynote starting from all this loud music that I loved and helped wake me up, so thanks to your events team for that. About 4000 attendees, >> Patrice: Yeah. >> From 40 countries. You have a ton of partners here. You can hear a lot of the noise behind us. I'd like you to share with our audience the connection that you made in your keynote about what you guys shared last Accelerate 2018 and the connection to the world economic forum from just a few months ago. >> Okay well, the last year we definitely in fact exposed our strategy in term of the product, in term of the go to market and of course how we can increase in fact the value proposition to our customer, it was all about the fabric and the eco-system that we build around the fabric. So we have been of course since now 12 months working hard on expanding and growing what I call the Phase two of the fabric and when Cain went to Davos which the World Economic Forum is held early in January. And when we got all this, I would say a vision from Klaus Schwab which is the Chairman and Founder of the World Economic Forum. Explaining that the false revolution that we are all going through. The Cyber Security its a massive, I would say problem for them and it will be a key point for the future because they will enable, in fact, most of those take technology and use it that we will go for this revolution, so >> Peter: It's intrinsic. >> It's intrinsic, they call it guardian. So it really is something that if we can't, fix this problem, it's all about digital trust. So none of the user, you, myself we will not trust maybe voting system, or you cannot trust. We know that everything is going digital. And they expressed the need for of course the education, because you need to educate and you need to, increase the skilled people especially with cyber-security as we have a huge shortfall about 1.5million, some say even two million for next year. They need also need to work as an eco-system. So, for them the eco-system is really to see public, private collaboration but also Government, technologies, companies like us. And that's in fact the purpose of Davos. To bring all this different, in fact groups and be able to talk and share and define some line for the future. And for us of-course, the concept of the eco-system is all about building around in fact this major problem that we are facing, has all the traits. In fact, a collective approach where everybody can add value. We as a vendor we build technology, we build a lot of value but we can't be with each of the customers. So and we want to build a partnership not only with the partner but also with the customer because cyber security is a real time problem. So when something happen, you need to jump, and you need to make sure that all the line is set and then everybody can work together to fix the problem. So this eco-system really resonates value well for us after we was talking last year at the Accelerate. And the last I will say pillar for the Economic Forum is about of course Education and clearly I was mentioning one of the Engineers from the SERP which is nuclear agency in Europe Januity she said that 3D, of course the problem is that with these robots we will have a lot of jobs that will be omitted. So they talk about 800 million. So it's a massive number but it sees more than an opportunity to up-skill people. So the education is really helping of course especially the young generation to go and to up-skill it and especially on the cyber security. Because, as everything is going digital, we have to secure everything so it's really, these pieces will grow much beyond that what we think today. Those three pillars are the Education, the Eco-system and of course the Technology. And the good news is that Ken was representing in fact cyber security at the Davos, so it was also a great moment for us to see in fact pushing 14 at that stage of level of discussion so. Those three pillars: Education, Technology and Eco-system of course fit very well with our strategy that we build and that's why I decided to share a bit this morning. It's not everybody going to such a place. And what really resonate well in term of the strategy and the vision we are in fact pursuing so that's what we are doing. >> So I want to build on something that you said to do so I want to paraphrase. Peter who is much smarter than I am, Peter Drucker who observed many years ago there's a difference in strategies between what he called: value in exchange was his presumption that what I am selling is valuable. And value in utility which is a presumption that the value stems from how the something is used. And that notion of partnership that Fortinet has put in place with its customers so they can get value in utility is so crucially important. And you talked a bit this morning about you know the different levels of customization, and how you are going to allow customers to engage you and apply technology to suit their business. Could you take a bit about that especially based on your experience in the field? >> Yeah so as I mention I think we, it has been also our sales strategy from day one. So we always consider that in order to succeed, we need to work through the partners and through the people that are very close to our customer. And as technology evolves of course it's a real challenge to keep them at the level. Even for us, internally, we used to understand and be always at the top level about the new technology that we are putting in place. We imagine that, just for the employees, it's a challenge so we do a lot of training. But then for the partner it's another challenge. So, I think we have been always trying to help them to of course evolving on this expertise, but we don't see that the cloud of course there is a certain I will say a trend about Okay lets go Direct because we don't. The cloud can allow to sell direct to the customer so you don't need those channels. So there's no value for them. We don't see that in the cyber security because it's a much more complex environment and I think that is why we have been successful. We even see some of our competitor, they tempted to go on this direction. I think it's maybe one of the challenges we'll face in the future. So for us they key message I was trying to give this morning to the partner is really that we count on them, it's a partnership, it's very important and of course when we adapt our partner program we want to learn from them to make sure that the three pillars of this program will fit well with their, in fact, view because of course we are from a vendor in certain perspective, they have of course a different perspective on their side. What I was mentioning the goal to market because we see that some are very specialized on the cloud, some are specialized on the premise. We have to define what is the go to market here. What kind of expertise there are in fact having because as you can see we have very broad product of frame cover, you know from almost everything, so from OT, IT, even imbedded. So, we are working with partners that are, as an example, on the connected car. That's for maybe the next two years where we will secure those car. They are not the typical or traditional partner that you see on the networking business so, we try to adapt in fact our engagement with them and make sure that in fact we build a value proposition that can fit in fact for the customer requirement. So it's really about be very close and try to have a bit of a-la-carte kind of approach. And not try to enforce a very historical view that we had in fact, to be honest. But okay, you have like three tiers, depending of level of business and then you sign. So it's really moving away from that. >> I want to stay in this notion of partners because I think it's so crucially important. You talked about the skills that they have the capabilities that they have, but your partners in general are amongst the companies that have to learn the most about cyber security. Because they are the ones that are trying to match technology to the outcomes the customers have. That leads to a question about your education programs. I got to believe that there is, that even as you're trying to educate your enterprise customers, you're also really investing in your enterprise, in upgrading and up scaling your partnership. Talk a bit about the relationship of education and Eco-system from a very practical standpoint. >> Yeah so it's a very good point because of course we need to help them to evolve and as an example we have seen traditional IT partner, interested to evolve on this OT security but they didn't have too much skill so it was new for them. So we see the purpose of building this NSC training vocation course which we have eight level, which started in 2015 and we have about now almost 200 000 certified engineers. A very large portion of those Engineers come from partners. So, on this program, in fact the origin of the program, depending on where you want to play. If it's cloud, you will have to go for NSC4. If you want to go beyond a OT, it can be NSC5. We build in fact this expertise and we ask them also to of course follow those course so the engagement with us, the requirement will be also that they have the right certified Engineer. Depending on level of engagement they want to work with us. So we build this course which is a lot of work and we have a lot of, a big team to make this happen. We have to refresh constantly because it's evolving almost every day. But as for this, the great value, you may have seen it pass on the networking sites. Cisco made a bit similar approach, which was very successful. I think we went like three years ago on thinking about this and that's what we are achieving right now and we are in fact the most I will say advanced in such a report and I think it's all NSC certification is becoming a bit stand out in the market. Both from end-user but the partner. And even going as we was mentioning, we are also working with the Academics to build in fact and train in fact new Engineers that will come in the market in the next two to three years. So we help them on, it's not pure about product, it's really about cyber security expertise that we have and of course we help them on understanding a bit how the Fortinet value can deploy on the customer, so that aspect and we try to target of course young I will say people going for university but also veterans who we had program to bring those veterans because they're also looking we are talking about up skilling. That's a perfect example on bringing a change to them. And I think it's high level, maybe it's a bit, you know think that we have a high potential. But we want of course to help on resolving the overall challenge to be unemployed. I can tell you that if you invest time and you get a certification on cyber security you will never have any problems with a job. So that's a bit the overall idea we have behind this education and certification. And truly the partner, I will say, evolution in terms of their expertise, it's based about this NSC. >> Alright Patrice as we kind of get towards the end here, let's talk about outcomes. Peter mentioned that word, I know that when I was looking at my notes here that in Q4 of 2018, service providers, and managed security service providers represented 11 of the top 25 deals. You guys also closed a massive seven figure deal in Europe. Let's talk about outcomes that Fortinet and your partner eco-system are helping businesses achieve at the business level. Not just in terms of obviously improving security but are you helping businesses generate new revenue streams, skip to new products on market faster, identify attacks and become pro active? What is one of those really key outcomes that you are proud of? >> I think the, and I was part of the presentation last year. We all, I would say on this digital transformation journey. Whole company, even us. We're evolving with much more tools, much automation. So I think every sector, whether it's public or private company, has to go for this evolution. The biggest challenge is all about digital so again the blocking point is about security. So last year we explained about how we can help with positioning our platform in the security fabric to run to this obstacle and that was the purpose of the security transformation that we was talking last year. And I know it's some, even complete as relayed a message, it was interesting that it was part of all. So I think it was really trying to unlock this digital transformation that add business benefit because at the end this whole, those company will evolve in the future, generate more profit, be more efficient, leverage, I would say, the data that they are collecting from almost everywhere. From customer but also the sensor, and transform this to a more business intelligence and then I will say generate in fact future revenue and future dollars from that. That has been a bit the idea behind. So we definitely help on evolving and going through this digital transformation journey. I think we had few example of course as one of our customers, they deploying world wide on their gas-station. A better customer journey. Typically of course you calm, you try to make your gas and you want to be connected. And they try to increase of course by upselling a lot of things. So of course you have your go for the coffee machine, you can even buy many goods. We have been deploying you know, with secure access so they have secure access they go for the internet so that's where we play with segmentation. But our wireless which is fully connected also to the Fortigate and the analytic tools allow them to do business intelligence in term of where people are moving inside you know the shops. And then, you know, redesign and rethink about okay, how they move here. So that's, that allow them to accelerate even more business or decide that maybe this spot doesn't work well, so they push that to the side and they evolve. That's depicted the value of all this intelligence and we can grasp from the data that we collect to transform to a business value. >> So I want to make one comment before we close here and that is that I don't know the degree to which people really understand the relationship between secure networking and digital business. Data is an interesting asset. It could be shared, it could be copied, it could be easily corrupted. In many respects over the next five years we believe that people will recognize that network security is the basis for privatizing data. It is what you do to turn data into an asset. I don't think people have made that connection, to the degree that they need to. >> No I agree, I agree because maybe the mindset they think about network, they think about wired. In fact we are talking about 5G, we are talking about Wireless so the data is that what we want to protect because we don't want that people stole your personal information or even company. >> It's more than protect. You want to create the asset. >> Yes, we integrate the asset. And then of course when we talk about network it's no longer wires, of course it's much more virtual I would say networks. And that's the misinterpretation and why they feel okay the network is moving away. No, it's even more in the future. And as Cain mentioned early this morning: I think the edge will become much more important in future because the compute power that we are having now on every device and even. That will in fact allow to of course generate much more data. Yeah and you need to protect. You notice when you need to go and to consolidate this into the cloud. So it's really, the age will become a very important aspect. But this will be a hybrid and that's what we feel as Fortinet we've been building in fact the very comprehensive offer and to the partner and to our customer. We just want, in fact to give them the time to move at their pace. But they have everything ready for today. That's a bit the concept. >> Well if only we had more time Patrice, we could keep going and going. Thank you so much for sharing some time on the program today talking about your GTM, what you are doing to educate partners and customers and this tremendous potential that Fortinet is attacking. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you very much, I appreciate it too. >> We want to thank you for watching for Peter Burroughs, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

(upbeat techno music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering Fortinet Accelerate '18, brought to you by Fortinet. >> Welcome back to The Cube's continuing coverage live from Fortinet Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin with The Cube, along with my co-host Peter Burris, and we're very excited to welcome a Cube alumni back to The Cube, Derek Manky, the global security strategist from Fortinet - welcome back! >> Derek: Thank you, it's always good to be here. We have great conversations. >> Lisa: We do. We're happy that you think that. So, lots of news coming out today. But, I want to kind of start with, maybe a top-down approach, the theme of the event: strength in numbers. >> Derek: Yes. >> Lisa: As a marketer I'm like, "What are they going to share?" And of course, Ken and a lot of your peers shared a lot of interesting statistics. From your standpoint - what you're doing with FortiGuard Labs, strength in numbers, help us understand that from the technology standpoint. What does that mean to you? >> Derek: Sure, sure. So, there's a couple aspects to that. First of all, I've always been a firm advocate that we can never win the war on cybercrime alone. We have to be able to collaborate; collaboration is a key aspect. The attack surface today now, just from if you look at the complexity of attacks, the attack surface is massive today. And it's going to continue to expand. I mean, 15 years ago, we're just dealing with you know, threats that would operate on IRC channels or something, you know, some websites, and just some spam attacks. Now, we have to deal with that in addition to this growing attack surface, right? Specifically, with IOMT - the Internet of Medical Things, OT, as well. You have within that OT umbrella, obviously, things like the connected vehicles and all of these different things, which I know you've seen here, also, at Accelerate. So, when we look at that attack surface, you need security in all aspects - end-to-end, right? And so, from a security architecture perspective, strength in numbers is important to have that whole coverage of the attack surface, right? That's not complex and easy to manage. At the same time, being able to inter-operate: that's another strength. You know, the more a structure is bonded or glued together, the more resilient it's going to become. That's the exact concept of the fabric, right? The more that we can inter-weave the fabric and connect the different nodes together and share intelligence, that becomes a much, much stronger structure. So, to me, the strength in numbers means collaboration, information flow, and also end-to-end coverage between the security solutions. >> Peter: But it also means, you know, the growing ecosystem; the need for additional expertise, greater specialization in people. Talk a little bit about how, from a strategy standpoint, Fortinet is helping prepare people for different types of inclusion, different types of participation; what it means to be great, in a security way. >> Derek: Yeah, absolutely. I think there's very (mumbles) We're taking a multi-pronged approach to that. If you look at things like our NSC training program - it's the largest in the industry - so, training other experts through our partners. Growing, doing that knowledge transfer in expertise onto new features, like we're doing here at Accelerate, is critically important. So, that's one aspect when you look at the ecosystem. When you look at something for FortiGuard, as an example, what we're doing. We have, traditionally, you know, we've trained up a very large team; we have 215 security experts at FortiGuard, which is, for a network security organization one of the largest in the world, if not the largest. >> Peter: And FortiGuard is a practical and active think tank, right? >> Derek: Absolutely, yeah. It's many things, it's reactive protection, it's proactive protection, it's - now we've just launched the FortiGuard AI, as well; artificial intelligence, machine learning, that's all the threat intelligence aspect. So, it's threat detection and response. Again, if you look at technology, when we started just with antivirus and intrusion prevention and things like this, it was very signature-based and reactive. We went from signature-based detections to anomaly-based detections. Now, the third generation of this is machine learning and deep learning And going back to your question: we don't ever want to replace humans - because humans are very important in this ecosystem - rather, repurpose them, right? So, what we're doing, as an example, is when we, you know, train our analysts. Instead of having them do day to day tasks like some signature creation or something like this, we can actually have AI systems replace that to identify a threat, respond to it, and then repurpose those humans for something more strategic, you know, looking at the context, "How bad is this threat?" "Why is it a threat?" "How do we respond to it?" "How do we work with partners and customers?" We've launched our threat intelligence service, as well. This is a good example of something we've used internally within FortiGuard to protect customers. Now, we're offering this as a service to customers for security operation centers. We also have our Forti analyzer product and incident response framework. These are all key components that we're empowering organizations to be able to respond those threats. But, again, strength in numbers, it's this ecosystem working together. So, fabric-ready partners is another good example of that strength in numbers, I think, too. >> Peter: Well, I remember the first time I walked into a knock and found the security person and their eyes were literally bleeding. (Derek chuckles) And it's nice to have AI be able to take that kind of a load off, to be looking at some of these challenges, some of these anomalies, things previously we expected people to be able to uncover. >> Derek: Yeah, and (mumbles) when we talk about AI, to me, it's a trust exercise, as well. When you talk about machine learning, it's an accuracy problem, right? "How accurate can the machines really be?" When we pass the torch, as I say, to the machines to be able to take on those day to day jobs, we have to be able to trust it, saying, "You're doing a good job and you're accurate." So, we're using supervised learning, right, where we have our human experts actually training the machines - that's a good use for them, instead of just doing the same cycles day to day, you know, as an example. That's another way that we're scaling out that way. I think it's absolutely required in today's day and age. If you look at the numbers, it's an exponential curve right now. Last year, one year ago today, on average we're seeing about a million hacking attempts in just a minute across the entire globe, right? Now, we're seeing that number up over four million. So, it's increased four-fold in just a year, and that's just going to continue to rise. So, having that automated defense and AI machine learning; machine learning's just a learning aspect; the AI is the actionable part - how we can take that intelligence and put that into the fabric so that the customer doesn't have to do that themselves. I mean, the customer doesn't always have to be involved in the security aspect of that, and that's how we start reducing on the complexity, too. >> Lisa: You mentioned a couple terms that I wanted to pivot on: proactive/reactive. One of the biggest challenges that we hear from the C-suite in this perspective is visibility, complexity, but also high TCO reactivity. Where is Fortinet enabling, when you talk to customers, that shift, that successful shift from reactive to proactive? >> Derek: Right, yeah. Good question, very good question. I think - just parallels - I mean, they're both always going to have to exist, that's just their nature. I mean, if you keep walking across, you know, it's like Frogger - if you keep walking across a busy highway, you're going to get hit eventually, 'cause there's that much traffic, that much attacks coming, right? So, again, the incident response angle - using detection systems and, you know, threat reporting, and this intelligence service to be able to, you know, alert on what sort of attacks are happening and how to prioritize that is one way on the reactive end. On the proactive end: consulting. We have a team of consulting engineers and specifically, ones on FortiGuard, so threat experts that are able to actually analyze. So, we have programs, like CTAP, as a cyberthreat assessment program that is able to able to go into these new networks as a free service and do assessments. So, audits and assessments on the state of security on that network - end-to-end, right? So, we're talking even up to the distributed enterprise level. It's very, very important because we're in a day and age of information overload, especially if you talk to, you know, most CSOs (chief security officer) I talk to, they say "Derek, I got so much traffic being thrown at me; I have all these security logs that are letting up - how do I prioritize and respond to that?" So, if you can understand who your enemy is - what they're up to, then you can start building an appropriate security strategy around that, as opposed to just building checkboxes and, you know, building a fort and thinking you're protected against everything. That's a very important part. And, of course, there's proactive security technologies: anomaly-based, you know, things like sandbox detection that we've already integrated into the fabric ecosystem. But, visibility is key first; know your enemy, understand it, then build up a stack around that. >> Peter: So you're a strategist? >> Derek: Yes. >> Peter: What's the difference between a security strategist and a strategist - a business strategist? And, specifically, how is security strategy starting to find its way into business strategy? >> Derek: Really good question. So, it's becoming blended, right, because security is a vital part of business today. So, if you look at some attacks that even happened last year, there's targeted attacks that are starting to go after big businesses; critical revenue streams and services, because these are high payouts, right? And so, you know, if you look at building a business, you have to identify what are your digital assets: that can include services, intellectual property, and what would happen if that service was, you know, if there was a denial-of-service attack on that? How much lead or revenue loss are you going to have versus the cost of implementing, you know, an adequate security structure around that? So, you know, security's a board-level discussion right now, right? And so, when I think you look at building up these businesses, security should be, by design, from the top down - let's start it there. >> Peter: But, is it finding its way, and we've asked this question a couple times - at least I have - is it finding its way into "Hey, my balance sheet is a source of competitive advantage; my sales force is a source of competitive advantage." Is your security capabilities a source of competitive advantage in a digital business? >> Derek: I would say absolutely, yeah. It's starting to find its way in there. If you look at regions like Australia, you know, they just implemented a mandatory breach disclosure, right, so then, any business that is earning, I think it's like over two million dollars in revenue, needs to, you know, have a certain security posture in place and be able to respond to that. And that's trust and brand recognition. So, because, having, you know, cases like this, building trust with your provider, especially if we talk about, you know, cloud services; I'm putting my data into your hands and trust. How well do you trust that? Of course, if there's good reputation and a powerful security solution, you know customers are going to feel safer doing that. It's like, are you going to, you know, put your gold in Fort Knox or are you going to put it, you know, bury it in your backyard? There's a definite relationship happening there. >> Lisa: I read (hesitates) I didn't read this report, but I saw it the other day that in 2017, a kind of cybercrime report that said by 2021, which isn't that far away, that the global impact will be six trillion dollars in cybercrime. >> Derek: Yeah. >> How do you see the public sector, the private sector working together to help mitigate that, where that cybercrime is concerned and the costs that are so varied and large. >> Derek: Yeah, it's not just cybercrime, either. It's cyberterrorism, these other aspects, especially if you're talking about public sector, if you're talking about critical infrastructure and also with, you know, energy sector and operational technology and all of these things, too. So, you know, it becomes very important for doing a collaboration in alliances - that's something that's actually close to my heart. You know, at FortiNet and FortiGuard, we've formed several strategic partnerships in alliance with public sector, mostly, you know, national computer emergency response, because we feel that we have a lot of intelligence. We're very good at what we do, you know, we can protect customers; detecting threats. But, if there's an attack happening on a national level, you know, we should be able to empower - to be able to work together to combat the threat. It's the same thing even with cybercrime, right? So, as an example, we work with law enforcement, as well with cybercrime, trying to find threat actors in the adversary; cybercriminals are running their own business, and the more expensive you can make it for them to operate, it slows down their operations. >> Peter: A COGS approach to competition. >> Derek: Yeah. (chuckles) Yeah, yeah. And, you know, they're always going to find the path of least resistance, right? That's the whole idea of security, strategy too, is, we call it the "attack chain," right, this layered security - that's the strength in numbers theme again, right; end-to-end security that makes the whole security chain stronger 'cause of that bond and that makes it more expensive for the cybercriminals to operate, too. So, as an example, like I said, national CERT, law enforcement; we're even teaming up in the private sector - a cyberthreat alliance, as well, that's been a very successful project; Fortinet's a founding member, I'm on the steering committee of the cyberthreat alliance. >> Peter: It was Ken's brainchild, wasn't it? >> Derek: Yeah, yep, yeah. And so, you know, we're competitors in the industry but we're actually - it's a friendly environment when we meet and it's actionable intelligence that's being shared. Again, it comes down to how well you can implement that technology, or that (hesitates) information in your technology - that's an important part. >> Lisa: So, here we are at Accelerate 2018 the - I think Ken was saying the 16th year of this event. What are you looking forward to in 2018 for Fortinet, looking at the strength of the partners - those behind us. What's exciting you about the opportunities that Fortinet has in 2018? >> Derek: It's never a boring day. (laughs) There's a lot of interesting opportunities to work with. I think it's - what's exciting to me is the vibe. People are very keen on this, right? If you look at our fabric-ready program, it's growing quite significantly and I think it's fantastic, there's a lot of people, you know, that are energized and willing to work in these programs. There's a lot of programs we can build at, specifically, FortiGuard, as well. Like I said, these threat intelligence services that we're offering to our partners now, which include, you know, proactive alerts, early warning systems. That empowerment and, you know, working together definitely excites me - there's a lot of opportunities there. And there's going to be a lot of, you know, challenges to overcome. If we look at the threat landscape right now, you know, one thing I'm talking about is swarm bots. It's this swarm intelligence - there's parallels here again; we talk about strength in numbers and what we're doing on our side. The bad guys are also teaming up and doing strength in numbers on their side, too. So, we're looking at on the horizon threats like this that are using, leveraging, their own learning mechanisms, being able to self-adapt to be much quicker to attack systems, right, because that's on the horizon - we're already seeing indications of that; we have to get this right. I think for the first time in the industry, you know, we're doing this right. You know, if you look at years past, cybercriminals, they can do a million things wrong and they don't care, right? So, we need to be able to overcome more hurdles. If we work together, which we're doing right now; I think for the first time, we have the opportunity to have an advantage over the cybercriminals, too. So, that's also exciting. >> Lisa: Definitely. We've heard a lot of, I think, conversation today along the spirit of collaboration, compatibility. So, that sentiment, I think, was well represented from your peers that we've spoken with today. >> Derek: Yeah. Everybody has a part to play, I think, right? And that's the thing - you mentioned the word "ecosystem" and that's exactly what it is, right? And that's another brilliant thing we're finding is that everybody brings some strength to the table, so that's another aspect, and I think people, you know, are realizing that organizations are realizing that they can actually play in these collaborations. >> Peter: It's not a zero sum game. >> Derek: No. >> Peter: It's not. I mean, there's so much diversity and so much opportunity and this digital transformation going to have touched so many different corners in so many different ways. >> Derek: Yeah. >> At this point in time, it's "How fast can we all work together to take advantage of the opportunities?" and not "Eh, I want that piece and I want that piece." because then the whole thing won't grow as fast. >> Derek: Yeah, and, you know, the other challenges - the technology challenge, and that's something we are addressing as well. Like, we're actually creating a solution to this - a framework, as we did with the cyberthreat alliance, but also with the fabric program, as well, so having those tools is very important, I think, as well, to help grow that ecosystem, right? >> Lisa: Exciting stuff, Derek. Thanks so much for joining us on The Cube and sharing some of the things that you're working on, and, it sounds, like you said earlier, never a dull moment; every day is a busy day. >> Derek: Absolutely not. Yeah, there's a long road ahead and I think there always will be. But, like I said, it's a lot of exciting times and it's good to see progress in the industry. >> Lisa: Absolutely. Well, thanks for your time. We look forward to our chat next year and to see what happens then. >> Derek: Okay, thank you so much! >> Lisa: Absolutely. We want to thank you for watching The Cube's continuing coverage of Fortinet Accelerate 2018. For Peter Burris, I'm Lisa Martin, and we'll be right back after a short break. 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>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering Fortinet Accelerate 18. Brought to you by Fortinet. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE. Our continuing coverage of Fortinet Accelerate 2018. We're excited to be here. I'm Lisa Martin with Peter Burris, and we're excited to talk to one of the Keynotes the big cheese from the main stage session this morning, John Maddison. >> I say, small cheese I would say. >> SVP of Products and Solutions at Fortinet. Welcome back to theCUBE. >> It's great to be here again. >> So two things I learned about you when you started off your Keynote. One you're a Man City Fan, Manchester City. >> Manchester City Blue. >> Okay. >> Through and through, for many years. >> Premier League all the way. And you have the best job at Fortinet. >> I do indeed. >> Wow. >> That is to announce the new products of course. >> So let's talk about that. So you talked about some exciting announcements today. Tell us about, start with a Security Fabric. What's new there, what's going on, what's exciting? >> Well the core of the Security Fabric is FortiOS 6.0, that's our network operating system. That's the core of he Fabric and when we do a big release like this, many different features, new functionalities. Also we have tighter integration now between all our products in the Fabric. Bus, as I said, new features as well. Things like SD-WAN has been improved, we now have probably estimate of breed SD-WAN security. The Fabric integration itself is going on. We built out some new connectors with cloud. Now we have connectors for all the public clouds. All the public clouds. We have a new CASB connector, acronym city, of course, as usual, CASB is cloud access security broker, API access the SaaS clouds. And so we've got that not only in it's standalone form but also very much integrated inside the Fabric. We've also introducing some new FortiGuard service as part of FortiOS 6.0, a new security rating which is based on a bunch of new practices or best practices that all our customers have said this is great best practices, can you put this together and apply these to our network overall. That's just skimming the surface as I say, I think I said there's 200 plus new services I could have stood up there for like six hours or whatever. But great new services are 6.0 big announcement for us. >> We just chatted with your America's Channel Chief Jon Bove, talk to us about. >> Who's an Arsenal fan by the way. >> What. >> And we beat him Sunday three nil in the Cup final. >> Excellent. >> Just to make sure you get this. >> I'm sure. >> Write that down. >> Jot that down. >> So what excitement are you hearing in, from your perspective, in the channel with respect to all of the new announcements that you made today? >> Great feedback, so this obviously is a big channel partner event here. You know what a lot of channel partners are saying is that I need to make sure I provide more of a solution to the customers. In the past, you know maybe they sell a point product, it's hard to kind of keep that relationship going with that customer. But if they sell a solution with one or two products that's part of that solution or managed and some services as part of that, it's much stickier for the partners and gives them a bit more of an architectural approach to their customers network. They really like the Fabric as I said. The Fabric doesn't have to be everything inside the Fabric, they can be components. It's what we've seen far from a Fabric components. Our partners really latched on to the network plus the advanced threat protection, plus the management or plus the access points. But they definitely prefer to sell a complete solution. It's hard for them to manage 40 different security vendors, the skill sets, the training and everything else. Now they're not saying there needs to be one security vendor, much as we would like it to be Fortinet, but they need to be reduced to maybe a set of 10 or 12 and really, our Fabric allows them to do that. >> That's a key differentiator. >> Absolutely key differentiator and as I said, you know it's very hard to build a Fabric. It's a mesh network, all these products talk to each other. You can only really do that if you build those products organically, step-by-step, alongside the network operating system. It's no good acquiring lots of bits and pieces and trying to bolt it together, it's not going to work. We spent a long time, 10 years, building out this Fabric organically to make sure it integrates but also putting the best of breed features and things like SD-WAN and CASB. >> What is the product? In this digital world what is a product? >> A security product? >> Any kind of product. As a guy who runs product management, what's a product, can we talk about what is a security product? >> I think in the past you know product management used to be very focused on I've got a box that comes out, or I've got a piece of software that comes out, these days it could be virtual machine or cloud, but it's doing a single instance, there's a single thing that it's doing inside, inside the network from a security perspective. What we believe in is that multifunction, now consolidation, multiple threat vectors I refer to this that like the digital attack surface. The digital transformation, security transformation. The biggest issue though, is that digital attack surface. That's just expanded enormously, it's very dynamic. Things are coming on on off the network was spinning up virtual machines and applications here and there. A point product these days just can't cope, can't cope. You need solutions against specific threat vectors that are applied in a dynamic way using the Fabric. >> But arguably it's even beyond solutions. You need to be able to demonstrate to the customer that there is an outcome that's consistent and that you will help achieve that outcome, You'll take some responsibility for it. In many respects, we move from a product to a solution, to an outcome orientation. Does that resonate with you and if so, how does that influence the way you think and the way that you're guiding Fortinet and partners? >> Yes, definitely. You know one of the first things they're very worried about is you know can they see that digital attack surface. It's very large now and it's moving around. Their outcome, first outcomes to say, do I know my risk on my attack surface? That's the very first out. Is it visible, can I see it, or can I protect it or can I apply the right threat protection against that. That outcome to them is they can see everything, protect everything, but as I said also, now they're moving into this more detection environment. Where you've got machine learning, artificial intelligence because you need to apply that. The bad guys these days are very smart in that they know they can morph things very quickly and provide you know targeted attacks, zero-day attacks, we probably haven't seen it before. I hate this analogy where we say somebody else got to get infected before everyone else gets protected. It shouldn't be that way. With, you know, with technologies like artificial intelligence, machine learning, we should be able to protect everybody from day one. >> Kind of pivoting on, you brought up the word outcome, and I want to go off that for a second. When you're talking with customers and you mentioned, I think, before we went live that you visited, talked to over 300 customers last year. Who is at the table, at a customer, in terms of determining the outcome we need to have? Are we talking about the CSO's team, what about folks in other organizations, operational technology departments. Who are you now seeing is in this conversation of determining this outcome. >> A new job role which I think been coming for a while, it's the security architect. Two years ago, I'll go into a room and there would be the networking team on one side of the table, this InfoSec team security side, on this side of the table, the CIO over here and the CSO over here and they be debating. I would be almost invisible in the room. They'll be debating what's going to happen because you know the CIO wants to build out more agile business applications, wants to move faster. The security team has got to answer to the Board these days, and they got to make sure everything's secure. What's their risk factor? And what I see is a new job function called the security architect, that kind of straddles a bit the networking team, understands what they're building out from an SDN, architecture, cloud perspective, but also understands the risks when you open up the network. The security architect provides more holistic, long-term architecture view for the customer, versus, I've got to fix this problem right now I've got a hold of a bucket, I've got to fix it, then we move on to the next. They're building a system on architecture long term. We have something called a Network Security Expert, it's our training education capability. We have an NSC eight, we have around 100 thousand people certified in the last two years on NSC between one and eight. And about 100 people on eight, because eight's a very high level architect level across all the security technologies. But we definitely see a lot of partners who want to get their people trained to NCE level eight because they would like to provide that security architect that's in the customer now, that advice on what should be that holistic security architecture. The big change to me is that the networking team and the security team have realized they can't just keep fixing things day to day, they need a more holistic long-term architecture. >> Let's talk about that holistic approach. At Wikibon we talk a lot about SiliconANGLE Wikibon, we talk a lot about how the difference between business and digital business is the role that data assets play in the digital business. I think it's a relatively interesting, powerful concept, but there's not a lot of expertise out there about thinking how is a data asset formed. I think security has a major role to play in defining how a data assets structured because security in many respects is the process of privatizing data so that it can be appropriated only as you want it to. What does the security architect do? Because I could take what you just said and say the security architect is in part responsible for defining and sustaining the data asset portfolio. >> Yes and you know, if you go back a few years, there's data leakage prevention was a big area, big marketplace, DLP is the best thing. Their biggest problem that they did was they couldn't tag the assets. They didn't know what assets were so then when it came to providing data protection they go well, what is it, I don't know where it's from, I don't know what it is. And so that a whole marketplace kind of just went away. We're still there a bit, but everyone's really struggling with it still. The 6.0 introduced something called tagging technology. It's inherent already inside routing systems and switching systems, SDN systems. The tagging technology allows you to look at data or devices or interfaces or firewalls from a higher level and say this is the business relationship between that device, that data and what my business objectives are. We talked about intent based network security and the ability long term is to say, hey, if I've got a user and I want to add that user to this network at security level six to that application, I say that, then it gets translated into bits and bytes and network comport and then gets translated end-to-end across the network. The tagging technology from my mind is the first step in a to be able to kind of tag interfaces and data and everything else. Once you've got that tagging done then you can apply policies as a much higher level which are data centric and business aware centric. >> I'm going to ask you a question related to that. Historically, networks in the IT world were device was the primary citizen right. Then when we went to the web the page became a primary citizen. Are we now talking about a world in which data becomes the primary citizen we're really talking about networks of data? >> I think to some extent. If you look at the users today, they have like maybe three or four devices. Because students, universities, there's something on with those lectures, they've got an iPad, their iPhone, three devices attaching there. I think the definition of one user and one device has gone away and it's multiple devices these days. And you know a lot of devices attaching that no one has any clue about. I don't think it's going to be completely data centric because I still think it's very very hard to tag and classify that data completely accurately as it's moving around. I think tends to be a part of it, I think devices going to be part of it, I think the network itself, the applications, are all going to be part of this visibility. In our 6.0 we provide this topology map where you can see devices users. You can see applications spin up, you can see the relationship between those things and the policies, the visibility is going to be extremely important going forward and then the tagging goes along with that and then you can apply the policy. >> With respect to visibility, I wanted to chat about that a little bit in the context of customers. One of the things that Ken talked about in his keynote was. >> Ken? >> Ken. >> Ken Xie. >> Yes. (laughing) >> Ken who? >> That guy? The guy that steals slides from you in keynotes. >> He did as usual. >> I know, I saw that. >> Tells me like two minutes before tells me John, I need that slide. (Peter laughing) >> That's why you have the best job. Everybody wants to copy you. In terms of what what the CEO said, that guy, that Fortinet protects 90% of the global S&P 100. There were logos of Apple, Coca-cola, Oracle, for example. In terms of visibility, as we look at either, a giant enterprise like that or maybe a smaller enterprise where they are, you mentioned this digital tax surface is expanding because they are enabling this digital business transformation, they've got cloud, multi-cloud, mobile, IoT, and they also have 20, north of 20, different security products in their environments. How did they get visibility across these disparate solutions that don't play together. How does Fortinet help them achieve that visibility, so they can continue to scale at the speed they need to? >> Well I think they use systems like SIM systems we have a Forti SIM as well where you can use standard base sys logs and SNMP to get information up there so they can see it that way. They're using orchestration systems to see parts of it, but I think long term, I think I speak to most customers they say, although there's specific, new vendors maybe for specific detection capabilities, they really want to reduce the number of vendors inside their network. You say 20, I sometimes I hear 30 and 40. It's a big investment for them. But they also realize they can't maintain it long term. Our recommendation to customers is to, if you've got some Fortinet footprint in there, look at what's the most obvious to build out from a Fortinet perspective. Sometimes we're in the data centers or sometimes we expand into the WAN and sometimes we expand into the cloud. Sometimes we'll add some advanced threat protection. We're not saying replace everything obviously with Fortinet, we're saying build what's most obvious to you and then make sure that you've got some vendors in that which are part of our Fabric alliance. We have 42 vendors now, security vendors, from end point to cloud to management that can connect in through those different APIs. And when we click them through those APIs they don't get you know the full Fabric functionality in terms of telemetry and visibility but they apply a specific functionality. A good example would be an endpoint vendor connecting through our sandbox not quite sure about files, entered our sandbox we'll give them a recommendation back. As soon as we know about that, all the Fabric knows about it instantly across the whole network because time is of the essence these days. When something gets hacked, it's inside a network. It's less than 60 seconds for something for the whole network. That's why segmentation, interim segmentation, is still a very important project for our customers to stop this lateral movement of infections once they get inside the network. >> But, very quickly, it does sound as though that notion of the security architect, this increasing complexity inside the network and I asked the question about whether data is going to be the primary decision, you get a very reasonable answer to that. But it sounds like increasingly, a security expert is going to have to ask the question how does this data integrate? How am I securing this data? And that, in many respects, becomes a central feature of how you think about security architecture and security interactions. >> Yeah but I think people used to build a network and bolt on security as an afterthought. I think what they're saying now is we need for the networking people and security people to work together to build a holistic security architecture totally integrated day one, not some afterthought that goes on there. That's why we know, we've been building the Fabric all these years to make sure it's a totally integrated Fabric end-to-end segmentation architecture where you can also then connect in different parts of the network. It has to be built day one that way. >> Last question, is sort of, I think we asked your CSO this, the balance between enabling a business to transform digitally at speed and scale. I think it was one of you this morning, that said that this is going to be the year of security transformation. Could've been that guy, that other guy, that you know, steals your slides. But how do how does a company when you're talking with customers, how do they get that balance, between we are on this digital transformation journey. We've got a ton of security products. How do they balance that? It's not chicken and egg to be able to continue transforming to grow profit, you know be profitable, with underpinning this digital business with a very secure infrastructure. >> As I said, I think most of them got that now. They kind of go, they've got this five-year plan versus a one-year plan or a six-month plan on the security side. It's integrated into the network architecture plan long term and that's the way they're building it out and that's the way they've got a plan to get, you know, you look at financial organizations who want to provide internet access or branch offices. They've got a plan to roll it out, that's safe going forward, or they want to add broadband access to their internet, like 5G or broadband interconnection, they've got a plan for it. I think people are much more aware now that when I build something out whether it be on the data side on the network side, it has to be secure from day one. It can't be something I'll do afterwards. I think that's the biggest change I've seen in my customer interactions is that they absolutely, essential is absolutely essential that they build out a secure network from day one, not an afterthought going forward. >> Well, we'll end it there, secure network from day one. John, thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE, congratulations on the announcements and we hope you have a great show. >> Great thanks. >> Thank you for watching, we are theCUBE, live from Fortinet Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host Peter Burris. Stick around, we'll be right back.