>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe, 2022. Brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome to Valencia Spain and cuon cloud native con 20 Europe, 2022. I'm your host Keith towns alongside a new hope en Rico, senior reti, senior editor. I'm sorry, senior it analyst at <inaudible> Enrique. Welcome to the program. >>Thank you very much. And thank you for having me. It's exciting. >>So thoughts, high level thoughts of CU con first time in person again in couple years? >>Well, this is amazing for several reasons. And one of the reasons is that yeah, I had the chance to meet, uh, with, uh, you know, people like you again. I mean, we, we met several times over the internet over zoom calls. I, I started to eat these zoom codes. <laugh> because they're really impersonal in the end. And like last night we, we are together group of friends, industry folks. It's just amazing. And a part of that, I mean, the event is, uh, is a really cool, it's really cool. There are a lot from people interviews and, you know, real people doing real stuff, not just, uh, you know, again, in personal calls, you don't even know if they're telling the truth, but when you can, you know, look in their eyes, what they're doing, I, I think that's makes a difference. >>So speaking about real people, meeting people for the first time, new jobs, new roles, Greg Moscarella, enterprise container management and general manager at SUSE. Welcome to the show, welcome back clue belong. >>Thank you very much. It's awesome to be here. It's awesome to be back in person. And I completely agree with you. Like there's a certain fidelity to the conversation and a certain, uh, ability to get to know people a lot more. So it's absolutely fantastic to be here. >>So Greg, tell us about your new role and what SUSE has gone on at KU coupon. >>Sure. So I joined SA about three months ago to lead the rancher business unit, right? So our container management pieces and, you know, it's a, it's a fantastic time. Cause if you look at the transition from virtual machines to containers and to moving to microservices, right alongside that transition from on-prem to cloud, like this is a very exciting time to be in this industry. And rancher has been setting the stage. And again, I'm go back to being here. Rancher's all about the community, right? So this is a very open, independent, uh, community driven product and project. And so this, this is kinda like being back to our people, right. And being able to reconnect here. And so, you know, doing it, digital is great, but, but being here is changes the game for us. So we, we feed off that community. We feed off the energy. So, uh, and again, going back to the space and what's happening in it, great time to be in this space. And you guys have seen the transitions you've seen, I mean, we've seen just massive adoption, uh, of containers and Kubernetes overall and ranchers been been right there with some amazing companies doing really interesting things that I'd never thought of before. Uh, so I'm, I'm still learning on this, but, um, but it's been great so far. >>Yeah. And you know, when we talk about strategy about Kubernetes today, we are talking about very broad strategies. I mean, not just the data center or the cloud with, you know, maybe smaller organization adopting Kubernetes in the cloud, but actually large organization thinking guide and more and more the edge. So what's your opinion on this, you know, expansion of Kubernetes towards the edge. >>So I think you're, I think you're exactly right. And that's actually a lot of meetings I've been having here right now is these are some of these interesting use cases. So people who, uh, whether it be, you know, ones that are easy to understand in the telco space, right? Especially the adoption of 5g and you have all these space stations, new towers, and they have not only the core radio functions or network functions that they're trying to do there, but they have other applications that wanna run on that same environment. Uh, I spoke recently with some of our, our good friends at a major automotive manufacturer, doing things in their factories, right. That can't take the latency of being somewhere else. Right. So they have robots on the factory floor, the latency that they would experience if they tried to run things in the cloud meant that robot would've moved 10 centimeters. >>By the time, you know, the signal got back, it may not seem like a lot to you, but if, if, if you're an employee, you know, there, you know, uh, a big 2000 pound robot being 10 centimeters closer to you may not be what you, you really want. Um, there's, there's just a tremendous amount of activity happening out there on the retail side as well. So it's, it's amazing how people are deploying containers in retail outlets. You know, whether it be fast food and predicting, what, what, how many French fries you need to have going at this time of day with this sort of weather. Right. So you can make sure those queues are actually moving through. It's, it's, it's really exciting and interesting to look at all the different applications that are happening. So yes, on the edge for sure, in the public cloud, for sure. In the data center and we're finding is people want a common platform across those as well. Right? So for the management piece too, but also for security and for policies around these things. So, uh, it really is going everywhere. >>So talk to me, how do, how are we managing that as we think about pushing stuff out of the data center, out of the cloud cloud, closer to the edge security and life cycle management becomes like top of mind thought as, as challenges, how is rancher and sushi addressing >>That? Yeah. So I, I think you're, again, spot on. So it's, it starts off with the think of it as simple, but it's, it's not simple. It's the provisioning piece. How do we just get it installed and running right then to what you just asked the management piece of it, everything from your firmware to your operating system, to the, the cluster, uh, the Kubernetes cluster, that's running on that. And then the workloads on top of that. So with rancher, uh, and with the rest of SUSE, we're actually tacking all those parts of the problems from bare metal on up. Uh, and so we have lots of ways for deploying that operating system. We have operating systems that are, uh, optimized for the edge, very secure and ephemeral container images that you can build on top of. And then we have rancher itself, which is not only managing your ES cluster, but can actually start to manage the operating system components, uh, as well as the workload components. >>So all from your single interface, um, we mentioned policy and security. So we, yeah, we'll probably talk about it more, um, uh, in a little bit, but, but new vector, right? So we acquired a company called new vector, just open sourced, uh, that here in January, that ability to run that level of, of security software everywhere again, is really important. Right? So again, whether I'm running it on, whatever my favorite public cloud providers, uh, managed Kubernetes is, or out at the edge, you still have to have security, you know, in there. And, and you want some consistency across that. If you have to have a different platform for each of your environments, that's just upping the complexity and the opportunity for error. So we really like to eliminate that and simplify our operators and developers' lives as much as possible. >>Yeah. From this point of view, are you implying that even you, you are matching, you know, self, uh, let's say managed clusters at the, at the very edge now with, with, you know, added security, because these are the two big problems lately, you know, so having something that is autonomous somehow easier to manage, especially if you are deploying hundreds of these that's micro clusters. And on the other hand, you need to know a policy based security that is strong enough to be sure again, if you have these huge robots moving too close to you, because somebody act the, the, the class that is managing them, that is, could be a huge problem. So are you, you know, approaching this kind of problems? I mean, is it, uh, the technology that you are acquired, you know, ready to, to do this? >>Yeah. I, I mean, it, it really is. I mean, there's still a lot of innovation happening. Don't, don't get me wrong. We're gonna see a lot of, a lot more, not just from, from SA and ranch here, but from the community, right. There's a lot happening there, but we've come a long way and we solved a lot of problems. Uh, if I think about, you know, how do you have this distributed environment? Uh, well, some of it comes down to not just, you know, all the different environments, but it's also the applications, you know, with microservices, you have very dynamic environment now just with your application space as well. So when we think about security, we really have to evolve from a fairly static policy where like, you might even be able to set an IP address and a port and some configuration on that. >>It's like, well, your workload's now dynamically moving. So not only do you have to have that security capability, like the ability to like, look at a process or look at a network connection and stop it, you have to have that, uh, manageability, right? You can't expect an operator or someone to like go in and manually configure a YAML file, right? Because things are changing too fast. It needs to be that combination of convenient, easy to manage with full function and ability to protect your, your, uh, your resources. And I think that's really one of the key things that new vector really brings is because we have so much intelligence about what's going on there. Like the configuration is pretty high level, and then it just runs, right? So it's used to this dynamic environment. It can actually protect your workloads wherever it's going from pod to pod. Uh, and it's that, that combination, again, that manageability with that high functionality, um, that, that is what's making it so popular. And what brings that security to those edge locations or cloud locations or your data center. >>So one of the challenges you're kind of, uh, touching on is this abstraction on, upon abstraction. When I, I ran my data center, I could put, uh, say this IP address, can't talk to this IP address on this port. Then I got next generation firewalls where I could actually do, uh, some analysis. Where are you seeing the ball moving to when it comes to customers, thinking about all these layers of abstraction IP address doesn't mean anything anymore in cloud native it's yes, I need one, but I'm not, I'm not protecting based on IP address. How are customers approaching security from the name space perspective? >>Well, so it's, you're absolutely right. In fact, even when you go to IPV six, like, I don't even recognize IP addresses anymore. <laugh> yeah. >>That doesn't mean anything like, oh, just a bunch of, yeah. Those are numbers, alpha Ric >>And colons. Right. You know, it's like, I don't even know anymore. Right. So, um, yeah, so it's, it comes back to that, moving from a static, you know, it's the pets versus cattle thing. Right? So this static thing that I can sort of know and, and love and touch and kind of protect to this almost living, breathing thing, which is moving all around, it's a swarm of, you know, pods moving all over the place. And so, uh, it, it is, I mean, that's what Kubernetes has done for the workload side of it is like, how do you get away from, from that, that pet to a declarative approach to, you know, identifying your workload and the components of that workload and what it should be doing. And so if we go on the security side some more like, yeah, it's actually not even namespace namespace. >>Isn't good enough if we wanna get, if we wanna get to zero trust, it's like, just cuz you're running in my namespace doesn't mean I trust you. Right. So, and that's one of the really cool things about new vectors because of the, you know, we're looking at protocol level stuff within the network. So it's pod to pod, every single connection we can look at and it's at the protocol layer. So if you say you're on my SQL database and I have a mye request going into it, I can confirm that that's actually a mye protocol being spoken and it's well formed. Right. And I know that this endpoint, you know, which is a, uh, container image or a pod name or some, or a label, even if it's in the same name, space is allowed to talk to and use this protocol to this other pod that's running in my same name space. >>Right. So I can either allow or deny. And if I can, I can look into the content that request and make sure it's well formed. So I'll give you an example is, um, do you guys remember the log four J challenges from not too long ago, right. It was a huge deal. So if I'm doing something that's IP and port based and name space based, so what are my protections? What are my options for something that's got logged four J embedded in like, I either run the risk of it running or I shut it down. Those are my options. Like those neither one of those are very good. So we can do, because again, we're at the protocol layer. It's like, ah, I can identify any log for J protocol. I can look at whether it's well formed, you know, or if it's malicious and it's malicious, I can block it. If it's well formed, I can let it go through. So I can actually look at those, those, um, those vulnerabilities. I don't have to take my service down. I can run and still be protected. And so that, that extra level, that ability to kind of peek into things and also go pod to pod, you know, not just same space level is one of the key differences. So I talk about the evolution or how we're evolving with, um, with the security. Like we've grown a lot, we've got a lot more coming. >>So let's talk about that a lot more coming what's in the pipeline for SUSE. >>Well, probably before I get to that, we just announced new vector five. So maybe I can catch us up on what was released last week. Uh, and then we can talk a little bit about going, going forward. So new vector five, introduce something called um, well, several things, but one of the things I can talk in more detail about is something called zero drift. So I've been talking about the network security, but we also have run time security, right? So any, any container that's running within your environment has processes that are running that container. What we can do is actually comes back to that manageability and configuration. We can look at the root level of trust of any process that's running. And as long as it has an inheritance, we can let that process run without any extra configuration. If it doesn't have a root level of trust, like it didn't spawn from whatever the, a knit, um, function was in that container. We're not gonna let it run. Uh, so the, the configuration that you have to put in there is, is a lot simpler. Um, so that's something that's in, in new vector five, um, the web application firewall. So this layer seven security inspection has gotten a lot more granular now. So it's that pod Topo security, um, both for ingress egress and internal on the cluster. Right. >>So before we get to what's in the pipeline, one question around new vector, how is that consumed and deployed? >>How is new vector consumed, >>Deployed? And yeah, >>Yeah, yeah. So, uh, again with new vector five and, and also rancher 2 65, which just were released, there's actually some nice integration between them. So if I'm a rancher customer and I'm using 2 65, I can actually deploy that new vector with a couple clicks of the button in our, uh, in our marketplace. And we're actually tied into our role-based access control. So an administrator who has that has the rights can just click they're now in a new vector interface and they can start setting those policies and deploying those things out very easily. Of course, if you aren't using, uh, rancher, you're using some other, uh, container management platform, new vector still works. Awesome. You can deploy it there still in a few clicks. Um, you're just gonna get into, you have to log into your new vector, uh, interface and, and use it from there. >>So that's how it's deployed. It's, it's very, it's very simple to use. Um, I think what's actually really exciting about that too, is we've opensourced it? Um, so it's available for anyone to go download and try, and I would encourage people to give it a go. Uh, and I think there's some compelling reasons to do that now. Right? So we have pause security policies, you know, depreciated and going away, um, pretty soon in, in Kubernetes. And so there's a few things you might look at to make sure you're still able to run a secure environment within Kubernetes. So I think it's a great time to look at what's coming next, uh, for your security within your Kubernetes. >>So Paul, we appreciate chief stopping by from ity of Spain, from Spain, I'm Keith Townsend, along with en Rico Sinte. Thank you. And you're watching the, the leader in high tech coverage.

>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe 22, brought to you by the cloud native computing foundation. >>Welcome to Valencia Spain and con cloud native con 20 Europe, 2022. I'm your host, Keith Townson alongside a new host en Rico senior reti, senior editor. I'm sorry, senior it analyst at giong Enrique. Welcome to the program. >>Thank you very much. And thank you for having me. It's exciting. >>So thoughts, high level thoughts of CU con first time in person again in couple years? >>Well, this is amazing for several reasons. And one of the reasons is that yeah, I had the chance to meet, uh, with, uh, you know, people like you again. I mean, we, we met several times over the internet, over zoom codes. I, I started to eat these zoom codes. <laugh> because they're very impersonal in the end. And like last night we, we are together group of friends, industry folks. It's just amazing. And a part of that, I mean, the event is, uh, is a really cool, it's really cool. There are a lot from people interviews and, you know, real people doing real stuff, not just, uh, you know, again, in personal calls, you don't even know if they're telling the truth, but when you can, you know, look in their eyes, what they're doing, I, I think that's makes a difference. >>So speaking about real people, meeting people for the first time, new jobs, new roles, Greg Moscarella enterprise container management in general manager at SUSE, welcome to the show, welcome back clue belong. >>Thank you very much. It's awesome to be here. It's awesome to be back in person. And I completely agree with you. Like there's a certain fidelity to the conversation and a certain, uh, ability to get to know people a lot more. So it's absolutely fantastic to be here. >>So Greg, tell us about your new role and what SUSE has gone on at KU con. >>Sure. So I joined SA about three months ago to lead the rancher business unit, right? So our container management pieces and, you know, it's a, it's a fantastic time. Cause if you look at the transition from virtual machines to containers and to moving to micro services, right alongside that transition from on-prem to cloud, like this is a very exciting time to be in this industry and rancher's been setting the stage. And again, I'm go back to being here. Rancher's all about the community, right? So this is a very open, independent, uh, community driven product and project. And so this, this is kinda like being back to our people, right. And being able to reconnect here. And so, you know, doing it, digital is great, but, but being here is changes the game for us. So we, we feed off that community. We feed off the energy. So, uh, and again, going back to the space and what's happening in it, great time to be in this space. And you guys have seen the transitions you've seen, I mean, we've seen just massive adoption, uh, of containers and Kubernetes overall, and rancher has been been right there with some amazing companies doing really interesting things that I'd never thought of before. Uh, so I'm, I'm still learning on this, but, um, but it's been great so far. >>Yeah. And you know, when we talk about strategy about Kubernetes today, we are talking about very broad strategies. I mean, not just the data center or the cloud with, you know, maybe smaller organization adopting Kubernetes in the cloud, but actually large organization thinking guide and more and more the edge. So what's your opinion on this, you know, expansion of Kubernetes towards the edge. >>So I think you're, I think you're exactly right. And that's actually a lot of meetings I've been having here right now is these are some of these interesting use cases. So people who, uh, whether it be, you know, ones that are easy to understand in the telco space, right? Especially the adoption of 5g and you have all these base stations, new towers, and they have not only the core radio functions or network functions that they're trying to do there, but they have other applications that wanna run on that same environment, uh, spoke recently with some of our, our good friends at a major automotive manufacturer, doing things in their factories, right. That can't take the latency of being somewhere else. Right? So they have robots on the factory floor, the latency that they would experience if they tried to run things in the cloud meant that robot would've moved 10 centimeters. >>By the time, you know, the signal got back, it may not seem like a lot to you, but if, if, if you're an employee, you know, there, you know, uh, a big 2000 pound robot being 10 centimeters closer to you may not be what you, you really want. Um, there's, there's just a tremendous amount of activity happening out there on the retail side as well. So it's, it's amazing how people are deploying containers in retail outlets. You know, whether it be fast food and predicting, what, what, how many French fries you need to have going at this time of day with this sort of weather. Right. So you can make sure those queues are actually moving through. It's, it's, it's really exciting and interesting to look at all the different applications that are happening. So yes, on the edge for sure, in the public cloud, for sure. In the data center and we're finding is people want to common platform across those as well. Right? So for the management piece too, but also for security and for policies around these things. So, uh, it really is going everywhere. >>So talk to me, how do, how are we managing that as we think about pushing stuff out of the data center, out of the cloud cloud, closer to the edge security and life cycle management becomes like top of mind thought as, as challenges, how is rancher and sushi addressing >>That? Yeah. So I, I think you're, again, spot on. So it's, it starts off with the think of it as simple, but it's, it's not simple. It's the provisioning piece. How do we just get it installed and running right then to what you just asked the management piece of it, everything from your firmware to your operating system, to the, the cluster, uh, the Kubernetes cluster, that's running on that. And then the workloads on top of that. So with rancher, uh, and with the rest of SUSE, we're actually tacking all those parts of the problems from bare metal on up. Uh, and so we have lots of ways for deploying that operating system. We have operating systems that are, uh, optimized for the edge, very secure and ephemeral container images that you can build on top of. And then we have rancher itself, which is not only managing your Kubernetes cluster, but can actually start to manage the operating system components, uh, as well as the workload components. >>So all from your single interface, um, we mentioned policy and security. So we, yeah, we'll probably talk about it more, um, uh, in a little bit, but, but new vector, right? So we acquired a company called new vector, just open sourced, uh, that here in January, that ability to run that level of, of security software everywhere again, is really important. Right? So again, whether I'm running it on, whatever my favorite public cloud providers, uh, managed Kubernetes is, or out at the edge, you still have to have security, you know, in there. And, and you want some consistency across that. If you have to have a different platform for each of your environments, that's just upping the complexity and the opportunity for error. So we really like to eliminate that and simplify our operators and developers lives as much as possible. >>Yeah. From this point of view, are you implying that even you, you are matching, you know, self, uh, let's say managed clusters at the, at the very edge now with, with, you know, added security, because these are the two big problems lately, you know, so having something that is autonomous somehow easier to manage, especially if you are deploying hundreds of these that's micro clusters. And on the other hand, you need to know a policy based security that is strong enough to be sure again, if you have these huge robots moving too close to you, because somebody act the class that is managing them, that could be a huge problem. So are you, you know, approaching this kind of problems? I mean, is it, uh, the technology that you are acquired, you know, ready to, to do this? >>Yeah. I, I mean, it, it really is. I mean, there's still a lot of innovation happening. Don't, don't get me wrong. We're gonna see a lot of, a lot more, not just from, from SA and rancher, but from the community, right. There's a lot happening there, but we've come a long way and we've solved a lot of problems. Uh, if I think about, you know, how do you have this distributed environment? Uh, well, some of it comes down to not just, you know, all the different environments, but it's also the applications, you know, with microservices, you have very dynamic environment now just with your application space as well. So when we think about security, we really have to evolve from a fairly static policy where like, you might even be able to set an IP address in a port and some configuration on that. It's like, well, your workload's now dynamically moving. >>So not only do you have to have that security capability, like the ability to like, look at a process or look at a network connection and stop it, you have to have that, uh, manageability, right? You can't expect an operator or someone to like go in and manually configure a YAML file, right? Because things are changing too fast. It needs to be that combination of convenient, easy to manage with full function and ability to protect your, your, uh, your resources. And I think that's really one of the key things that new vector really brings is because we have so much intelligence about what's going on there. Like the configuration is pretty high level, and then it just runs, right? So it's used to this dynamic environment. It can actually protect your workloads wherever it's going from pod to pod. Uh, and it's that, that combination, again, that manageability with that high functionality, um, that, that is what's making it so popular. And what brings that security to those edge locations or cloud locations or your data center >>Mm-hmm <affirmative> so one of the challenges you're kind of, uh, touching on is this abstraction on upon abstraction. When I, I ran my data center, I could put, uh, say this IP address, can't talk to this IP address on this port. Then I got next generation firewalls where I could actually do, uh, some analysis. Where are you seeing the ball moving to when it comes to customers, thinking about all these layers of abstraction I IP address doesn't mean anything anymore in cloud native it's yes, I need one, but I'm not, I'm not protecting based on IP address. How are customers approaching security from the name space perspective? >>Well, so it's, you're absolutely right. In fact, even when you go to I P six, like, I don't even recognize IP addresses anymore. <laugh> >>Yeah. Doesn't mean anything like, oh, just a bunch of, yes, those are numbers, ER, >>And colons. Right. You know, it's like, I don't even know anymore. Right. So, um, yeah, so it's, it comes back to that, moving from a static, you know, it's the pets versus cattle thing. Right? So this static thing that I can sort of know and, and love and touch and kind of protect to this almost living, breathing thing, which is moving all around, it's a swarm of, you know, pods moving all over the place. And so, uh, it, it is, I mean, that's what Kubernetes has done for the workload side of it is like, how do you get away from, from that, that pet to a declarative approach to, you know, identifying your workload and the components of that workload and what it should be doing. And so if we go on the security side some more like, yeah, it's actually not even namespace namespace. >>Isn't good enough. We wanna get, if we wanna get to zero trust, it's like, just cuz you're running in my namespace doesn't mean I trust you. Right. So, and that's one of the really cool things about new vectors because of the, you know, we're looking at protocol level stuff within the network. So it's pod to pod, every single connection we can look at and it's at the protocol layer. So if you say you're on my database and I have a mye request going into it, I can confirm that that's actually a mye protocol being spoken and it's well formed. Right. And I know that this endpoint, you know, which is a, uh, container image or a pod name or some, or a label, even if it's in the same name, space is allowed to talk to and use this protocol to this other pod that's running in my same name space. >>Right. So I can either allow or deny. And if I can, I can look into the content that request and make sure it's well formed. So I'll give you an example is, um, do you guys remember the log four J challenges from not too long ago, right. Was, was a huge deal. So if I'm doing something that's IP and port based and name space based, so what are my protections? What are my options for something that's got log four J embedded in like I either run the risk of it running or I shut it down. Those are my options. Like those neither one of those are very good. So we can do, because again, we're at the protocol layers like, ah, I can identify any log for J protocol. I can look at whether it's well formed, you know, or if it's malicious, if it's malicious, I can block it. If it's well formed, I can let it go through. So I can actually look at those, those, um, those vulnerabilities. I don't have to take my service down. I can run and still be protected. And so that, that extra level, that ability to kind of peek into things and also go pod to pod, you know, not just name space level is one of the key differences. So I talk about the evolution or how we're evolving with, um, with the security. Like we've grown a lot, we've got a lot more coming. >>So let's talk about that a lot more coming what's in the pipeline for SUSE. >>Well, how, before I get to that, we just announced new vector five. So maybe I can catch us up on what was released last week. Uh, and then we can talk a little bit about going, going forward. So new vector five, introduce something called um, well, several things, but one of the things I can talk in more detail about is something called zero drift. So I've been talking about the network security, but we also have run time security, right? So any, any container that's running within your environment has processes that are running that container. What we can do is actually comes back to that manageability and configuration. We can look at the root level of trust of any process that's running. And as long as it has an inheritance, we can let that process run without any extra configuration. If it doesn't have a root level of trust, like it didn't spawn from whatever the, a knit, um, function was and that container we're not gonna let it run. Uh, so the, the configuration that you have to put in there is, is a lot simpler. Um, so that's something that's in, in new vector five, um, the web application firewall. So this layer seven security inspection has gotten a lot more granular now. So it's that pod Topo security, um, both for ingress egress and internal on the cluster. Right. >>So before we get to what's in the pipeline, one question around new vector, how is that consumed and deployed? >>How is new vector consumed, >>Deployed? And yeah, >>Yeah, yeah. So, uh, again with new vector five and, and also rancher 2 65, which just were released, there's actually some nice integration between them. So if I'm a rancher customer and I'm using 2 65, I can actually just deploy that new vector with a couple clicks of the button in our, uh, in our marketplace. And we're actually tied into our role-based access control. So an administrator who has that has the rights can just click they're now in a new vector interface and they can start setting those policies and deploying those things out very easily. Of course, if you aren't using, uh, rancher, you're using some other, uh, container management platform, new vector still works. Awesome. You can deploy it there still in a few clicks. Um, you're just gonna get into, you have to log into your new vector, uh, interface and, and use it from there. >>So that's how it's deployed. It's, it's very, it's very simple to use. Um, I think what's actually really exciting about that too, is we've opensourced it? Um, so it's available for anyone to go download and try, and I would encourage people to give it a go. Uh, and I think there's some compelling reasons to do that now. Right? So we have pause security policies, you know, depreciated and going away, um, pretty soon in, in Kubernetes. And so there's a few things you might look at to make sure you're still able to run a secure environment within Kubernetes. So I think it's a great time to look at what's coming next, uh, for your security within your Kubernetes. >>So, Paul, we appreciate you stopping by from ity of Spain. I'm Keith Townsend, along with en Rico Sinte. Thank you. And you're watching the, the leader in high tech coverage.

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante last week's aws re invent brought into focus the degree to which cloud computing generally and aws specifically have impacted the technology landscape from making infrastructure orders of magnitude simpler to deploy to accelerating the pace of innovation to the formation of the world's most active and vibrant infrastructure ecosystem it's clear that aws has been the number one force for change in the technology industry in the last decade now going forward we see three high-level contributors from aws that will drive the next 10 years of innovation including one the degree to which data will play a defining role in determining winners and losers two the knowledge assimilation effect of aws's cultural processes such as two pizza teams customer obsession and working backwards and three the rise of super clouds that is clouds that run on top of hyperscale infrastructure that focus not only on i.t transformation but deeper business integration and digital transformation of entire industries hello everyone and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we'll review some of the takeaways from the 10th annual aws re invent conference and focus on how we see the rise of super clouds impacting the future of virtually all industries one of the most poignant moments for me was a conversation with steve mullaney at aw aws re invent he's the ceo of networking company aviatrix now just before we went on the cube nick sterile one of aviatrix's vcs looked up at steve and said it's happening now before i explain what that means this was the most important hybrid event of the year you know no one really knew what the crowd would be like but well over twenty 000 people came to reinvent and i'd say at least 25 to 26 000 people attended the expo and probably another 10 000 or more came without badges to have meetings and side meetings and do networking off the expo floor so let's call it somewhere between thirty to forty thousand people physically attended the reinvent and another two hundred thousand or more online so huge event now what nick sterile meant by its happening was the next era of cloud innovation is upon us and it's happening in earnest the cloud is expanding out to the edge aws is bringing its operating model its apis its primitives and services to more and more locations yes data and machine learning are critical we talk about that all the time but the ecosystem flywheel was so evident at this year's re invent more so than any other re invent partners were charged up you know there wasn't nearly as much chatter about aws competing with them rather there was much more excitement around the value that partners are creating on top of aws's massive platform now despite aggressive marketing from competitive hyperscalers other cloud providers and as a service or on-prem slash hybrid offerings aws lead appears to be accelerating a notable example is aws's efforts around custom silicon far more companies especially isvs are tapping into aws's silicon advancements we saw the announcement of graviton 3 and new chips for training and inference and as we've reported extensively aws is now on a curve a silicon curve that will outpace x86 vis-a-vis performance price performance cost power consumption and speed of innovation and its nitro platform is giving aws and its partners the greatest degree of optionality in the industry from cpus gpus intel amd and nvidia and very importantly arm-based custom silicon springing from aws's acquisition of annapurna aws started its custom silicon journey in 2008 and is and it has invested massive resources into this effort other hyperscalers notably microsoft google and alibaba which have the scale economics to justify such custom silicon efforts are just recently announcing initiatives in this regard others who don't have the scale will be relying on third-party silicon providers a perfectly reasonable strategy but because aws has control of the entire stack we believe it has a strategic advantage in this respect silicon especially is a domain where to quote andy jassy there is no compression algorithm for experience b on the curve matters a lot and the biggest story in my view this past week was the rise of the super clouds in his 2020 book with steve hamm frank slootman laid out the case for the rise of data cloud a title which i've conveniently stolen for this breaking analysis rise of the super cloud thank you frank in his book slootman made a case for companies to put data at the center of their organizations rather than organizing just around people for example the idea is to create data networks while people of course are critical organizing around data and enabling people to access and share data will lead to the democracy democratization of data and network effects will kick in this was essentially metcalfe's law for data bob metcalf was the inventor of ethernet ethernet he put forth that premise when we we both worked or the premise when we both worked for pat mcgovern at idg that the value of a network is proportional to the square of the number of its users or nodes on the network thought of another way the first connection isn't so valuable but the billionth connection is really valuable slootman's law if i may says the more people that have access to the data governed of course and the more data connections that can be shared or create sharing the more value will be realized from that data exponential value in fact okay but what is a super cloud super cloud is an architecture that taps the underlying services and primitives of hyperscale clouds to deliver incremental value above and beyond what's available from the public cloud provider a super cloud delivers capabilities through software consumed as services and can run on a single hyperscale cloud or span multiple clouds in fact to the degree that a super cloud can span multiple clouds and even on-premises workloads and hide the underlying complexity of the infrastructure supporting this work the more adoption and the more value will be realized now we've listed some examples of what we consider to be super clouds in the making snowflake is an example we use frequently frequently building a data cloud that spans multiple clouds and supports distributed data but governs that data centrally somewhat consistent with the data mesh approach that we've been talking about for quite some time goldman sachs announced at re invent this year a new data management cloud the goldman sachs financial cloud for data with amazon web services we're going to come back to that later nasdaq ceo adina friedman spoke at the day one keynote with adam silipsky of course the new ceo of aws and talked about the super cloud they're building they didn't use that term that's our term dish networks is building a super cloud to power 5g wireless networks united airlines is really in my view they're porting applications to aws as part of its digital transformation but eventually it will start building out a super cloud travel platform what was most significant about the united effort is the best practices they're borrowing from aws like small teams and moving fast but many others that we've listed here are on a super cloud journey just some of the folks we talked to at reinvent that are building clouds on top of clouds that are shown here cohesity building out a data management cloud focused on data protection and governance hashicorp announced its ipo at a 13 billion valuation building an it automation super cloud data bricks chaos search z-scaler z-scaler is building a security super cloud and many others that we spoke with at the event now we want to take a moment to talk about castles in the cloud it's a premise put forth by jerry chen and the team at greylock it's a really important piece of work that is building out a data set and categorizing the various cloud services to better understand where the cloud giants are investing where startups can participate and how companies can play in the castles that are being built that have been built by the hyperscalers and how they can cross the moats that have been dug and where innovation opportunities exist for other companies now frequently i'm challenged about our statements that there really are only four hyperscalers that exist in the world today aws microsoft google and alibaba while we recognize that companies like oracle have done a really excellent job of improving their clouds we don't consider companies like oracle ibm and other managed service providers as hyperscalers and one of the main data points that we use to defend our thinking is capex investment this was a point that was made in castles in the cloud there are many others that we look at elder kpi size of ecosystem partner acceleration enablement for partners feature sets etc but capex is a big one here's a chart from platform nomics a firm that is obsessed with cl with capex showing annual capex spend for five cloud companies amazon google microsoft ibm and oracle this data goes through 2019 it's annual spend and we've superimposed the direction for each of these companies amazon spent more than 40 billion dollars on capex in 2020 and will spend more than 50 billion this year sure there are some warehouses for the amazon retail business in there and there's other capital expenses in these numbers but the vast majority spent on building out its cloud infrastructure same with google and microsoft now oracle is at least increasing its cap x it's going to spend about 4 billion but it's de minimis compared to the cloud giants and ibm is headed in the other direction it's choosing to invest for instance 34 billion dollars in acquiring red hat instead of putting its capital into a cloud infrastructure look that's a very reasonable strategy but it underscores the gap okay another metric we look at is i as revenue here's an updated chart that we showed last month in our cloud update which at the time excluded alibaba's most recent quarter results so we've updated that very slight change it wasn't really material so you see the four hyperscalers and by the way they invested more than a hundred billion dollars in capex last year it's gonna be larger this year they'll collectively generate more than 120 billion dollars in revenue this year and they're growing at 41 collectively that is remarkable for such a large base of revenue and for aws the rate of revenue growth is accelerating it's the only hyperscaler that can say that that's unreal at their size i mean they're going to do more than 60 billion dollars in revenue this year okay so that's why we say there are only four hyperscalers but so what there are so many opportunities to build on top of the infrastructure that the three u.s giants especially are building as folks are really cautious about china at the moment so let's take a look at what some of the companies that we've been following are doing in the super cloud arena if you will this chart shows some etr data plotting net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and market share or presence in the etr data set on the horizontal axis most every name on the chart is building some type of super cloud but let me start as we often do calling out aws and azure i guess they're already super clouds but they're not building necessarily on top of of of other people's clouds and there are a little bit you know microsoft does some of that certainly google's doing some of that amazon really bringing its cloud to the edge at this point it's not participating in multi-cloud actively anyway aws and azure they stand alone as the cloud leaders and you can debate what's included in azure in our previous chart on revenue attempts to strip out the microsoft sas business but this is a customer view they see microsoft as a cloud leader which it is so that's why its presence on the horizontal axis and its momentum is is you know very large and very strong stronger than even in aws in this view even though it's is revenue that we showed earlier microsoft is significantly smaller but they both have strong momentum on the vertical axis as shown by that red horizontal line anything above that remember is considered considered elevated that 40 percent or above now google cloud it's well behind these two to we kind of put a red dotted line around it but look at snowflake that blue circle i mean i realize we repeat ourselves often but snowflake continues to hold a net score in the mid to high 70s it held 80 percent for a long time it's getting much much bigger it's so hard to hold that and in 165 mentions in the survey which you can see in the inserted table it continues to expand its market's presence on the horizontal axis now all the technology companies that we track of all of them we feel snowflake's vision and execution on its data cloud and that strategy is most is the most prominent example of a super cloud truly every tech company every company should be paying attention to snowflakes moves and carving out unique value propositions for their customers by standing on the shoulders of cloud giants as ceo ed walsh likes to say now on the left hand side of the chart you can see a number of companies that we spoke with that are in various stages of building out their super clouds data bricks dot spot data robots z z scalar mentioned hashi you see elastic confluent they're all above the forty percent line and somewhat below that line but still respectable we see vmware with tanzu cohesity rubric and veeam and many others that we didn't necessarily speak with directly at reinvent and or they don't show up in the etr dataset now we've also called out cisco dell hpe and ibm we didn't plot them because there's so much other data in there that's not apples to apple but we want to call them up because they all have different points of view and are two varying degrees building super clouds but to be honest these large companies are first protecting their respective on-prem turf you can't blame them those are very large install basis now they're all adding as a service offerings which is cloud-like i mean they're behind way behind trying to figure out you know things like billing and they don't nearly have the ecosystem but they're going to fight rightly they're going to fight hard and compete with their respective portfolios with their channels and their vastly improved simplicity but when you speak to customers at re invent and these are not just startups we're talking to we're talking about customers of these enterprise tech companies these customers want to build on aws they look at aws as cloud and that is the cloud that they want to write to now they want to connect they're on-prem but they're still largely different worlds when you when you talk to these customers now they'll fully admit they can't or won't move everything out of their data centers but the vast vast majority of the customers i spoke with last week at reinvent have much more momentum around moving towards aws they're not repatriating as everybody's talking about or not everybody but many are talking about and yeah there's some recency bias because we just got back but the numbers that we shared earlier don't lie the trend is very clear now these large firms that we mentioned these incumbents in the tech industry these big enterprise tech giants they're starting to move in the super cloud direction and they will have much more credibility around multi-cloud than the hyperscalers but my honest view is that aws's lead is actually accelerating the gap in my opinion is not closing now i want to come back and dig into super cloud a little bit more around 2010 and 2011 we collaborated with two individuals who really shaped our thinking in the big data space peter goldmaker was a cell side analyst at common at the time and abi abhishek meta was with bank of america and b of a was transforming its data operations and avi was was leading that now peter was you know an analyst sharp and less at the time he said you know it's going to be the buyers of big data technology and those that apply big data to their operations who would create the most value he used an example of sap he said look you you couldn't have chosen that sap was going to lead an erp but if you could have figured out who which companies were going to apply erp to their business you would have made a lot of money investing so that was kind of one of his investment theses now he posited that the companies that would apply the big data technology the buyers if you will would create far more value than the cloud errors or the hortonworks or a collection of other number of big data players and clearly he was right in that regard now abi mehta was an example of that and he posited that ecosystems would evolve within vertical industries around data kind of going back to frank slootman's premise that in putting data at the core and that would power the next generation of value creation via data machine learning and business transformation and he was right and that's what we're seeing with the rise of super cloud now after the after the first reinvent we published a post seen on the right hand side of this chart on wikibon about the making of a new gorilla aws and we said the way to compete would be to take an industry focus or one way to compete with take an industry focus and become best to breed within that industry and we aligned really with abbey meta's point of view that industry ecosystems would evolve around data and offer opportunities for non-hyperscalers to compete now what we didn't predict at the time but are now seeing clearly emerge is that these super clouds are going to be built on top of aws and other hyperscale clouds makes sense goldman's financial cloud for data is taking a page out of aws it's pointing its proprietary data algorithms tools and processes at its clients just like amazon did with its technology and it's making these assets available as a service on top of the aws cloud a super cloud for financial services if you will they are relying on aws for infrastructure compute storage networking security and other services like sagemaker to power that super cloud but they're bringing their own ip to the table nasdaq and dish similarly bringing forth their unique value and as i said as i said earlier united airlines will in our view eventually evolve from migrating its apps portfolio to the cloud to building out a super cloud for travel what about your logo what's your super cloud strategy i'm sure you've been thinking about it or perhaps you're already well down the road i'd love to hear how you're doing it and if you see the trends the same or differently as we do okay that's it for now don't forget these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen all you do is search breaking analysis podcast you definitely want to check out etr's website at etr.plus for all the survey data remember we publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com you can email me if you want to get in touch with david.velante at siliconangle.com you can dm me at devolante on twitter you can comment on our linkedin posts this is dave vellante for the cube insights powered by etr have a great week stay safe be well and we'll see you next time [Music] you

(upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. This is theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, my host Lisa Martin here, with some keynote guests who are on the big stage here at re:Invent, Linda Jojo, Chief Digital Officer at United Airlines. Thanks for coming on. >> Hey, great to be here. Thanks for having me. >> So up on the big stage, big transformation story in front of 27,000 people, on the virginity, >> Linda: That many? >> that's the number, >> It's a big room >> pretty small for Amazon web services, nearly 60,000, but you know, pandemic and all but great presentation. What was the, what was the transformation story for United? >> Well, I think there's two parts of the story. One is just how fast everything happened, you know. February of 2020, we're having a kickoff meeting with AWS about how we're going to really transform the airline and a month later the world shut down. And so it changed, we went from thinking about the future to really just trying to make it through the next few weeks. But as soon as that happened, we knew that we had to take advantage of the crisis and think about everything from what can we do with our onboard products, we've changed out a lot of things about our airplanes, we've doubled down on sustainability. We're really focused on the diversity of our workforce, but also we really said, what can we do about transforming our technology? And that's where AWS came in because one of the silver linings for our tech team was that we didn't always have a plane in the air. And so when that happens, we had no time to make a change and back it out, if it doesn't work or heaven forbid have an outage. We a little bit longer. So we got aggressive and we made a lot of changes and made a lot of move to AWS Cloud. >> Talk to me a little bit about the cultural shift involved. I mean, you talked about, you know, everybody was just scrambling. >> Yeah. So quickly, there was this instant, what do we do? How do we pivot? How do we survive mode? But from a cultural perspective, it sounds like you took, you leveraged the situation to be able to make a lot of improvements across the United, but culturally that's, that's challenging to get all those folks on board at the same time. How did you facilitate that? >> Well, you know what, the story I'm going to tell isn't all just about me. It's about the incredible team that we have, but you know, folks got focused and Amazon talks about having a two pizza team about how if your team should be no bigger than what can be fed by two pizzas, and that really keeps the decision-making streamlined and fast. For us since we were now all working from home, we called it a one screen team. And so the idea was no more than a number of people that could fit on that video call was the idea. So that was the number of people that we had on our teams. We branded them even call them scrappy teams, which was really kind of fun. And those are the groups that just kind of got their job done. And you know, the first part of their job was every week or every day it seemed like we were getting new rules from the U.S government about what countries you couldn't fly to. And it was chaotic. It was confusing for customers and frankly, our, that one screen team, they were up like every night making modifications to who could check in online and who couldn't. And we said when it's time to open back up, we can't, we got to do this better. And so that group came up with something we now call the Travel-Ready Center. Which is really pretty incredible. What you can do now is first of all, when you book your flight, we'll tell you what you need to fly. You need this type of a COVID test, this many days in advance. This is what fully vaccinated means in the country you're going to. And so this was the kind of vaccine card we need to see. You upload it all. We use Amazon SageMaker and we have machine learning models that actually now will within seven seconds validate that you're ready to fly. And what that means is just like always, you can get your boarding pass before you get to the airport. Now, if you guys travel a lot, I hope you still do, >> Yeah. what that means is that you can actually bypass the lobby of the airport and all the document checking that's going on because your travel ready. So customers love it. Gate agents love it too, because gate agents, the rules are changing so fast. They don't, you know, and they work the flight to Tel Aviv one day and the flight to Paris the next and the rules are different. And maybe in between, they changed. So having the software actually figured that out is what helps. >> So very dynamic and new innovations popped out of this pandemic. What else did Amazon help you with? Was there other Amazon innovations that you guys gravitated to SageMaker was one, what were some of the other? >> Yeah. You know, honestly, the team uses a lot of the tools and a lot of different ways. I would say the other big one was DynamoDB, and some of the things that we did to actually migrate some of our core systems to Amazon and actually, you know, instead of making phoning home to data centers all the time, we're now going right to the Cloud and getting some, some really great performance out of that. >> And, and, and the travel thing that you guys did that was came out of the innovation from the teams. >> Yeah. >> is there any other, other examples that popped out from you guys? >> Yeah. Well, I think another one is something that we call Agent on Demand. Agent on Demand is where you used it when you had to talk to an agent in the airport, you'd go get in line somewhere. And sometimes it was a long line, right? Because there's only two people there. And so the first thing we did was we made sure the technologies they used worked on a phone or an iPad. So now we weren't limited by the number of, of stations at the gate. The next thing we is that we made it QR code enabled. And now what customers can do is they can scan the QR code and they get a live agent, like a FaceTime call on their, on their phone. They can do it from anywhere from their seat at the gate or in line for a coffee, and they can solve their problem right there. And those agents, by the way, now maybe there's a snowstorm going on in Chicago, but the agents are in Houston where it's sunny. And so we can actually leverage the fact that those agents are there to help our customers. >> So you've got the user experience, you did some innovation. How about the operational things, I noticed when I traveled the United, the packaging's different ,the greetings are different. I get why all these operational impacts happened to the whole supply chain.(laughing) >> Yeah. Well, you know, the technology's great, but what makes you remember United are the people that you're going to interact with. And so we really focused on service for our, for our employees. And how do we give them information in the palm of their hand to, to treat you in a very personal way. We know that you flew last week and where you went. We know that you just made a million miles. And so we can give that information to our flight attendant and they can provide a really great experience. >> That experience is key. These days. One of the things that's been in short supply, during the pandemic is patience. And obviously you guys have to be very cognizant of that with some of the things that have happened across all the airlines and passengers not having the patience that they normally would have. >> Oh yeah. That is a real kudos to our flight attendants. And what we did with them, you know, wearing a mask is required on the aircraft and, you know, some folks don't like to be told what to do anywhere, right? And so people don't like that. Our flight attendants learned how to deescalate the situation and deal with it on the ground. So it's very simple. If you're not wearing a mask, flight attendant asked you nicely, you still don't put your mask on. They just give you a little card that says, by the way, if you don't put your mask on, this is going to be your last United flight. And the vast majority of customers put their masks on. So we have not seen some of that level of stress that's happened on some of other, other airlines. >> That's key. Cause it's been pretty rampant. But the fact that you're, you're making things much more accessible. And in real time, I think another thing we learned during the pandemic is that real time is no longer a nice to have. It's essential. We have this expectation as consumers, whether we're flying or we're buying something from an online retailer that we're going to be able to get whatever we want in the palm of our hand. >> Yeah. Well, you know what we like to say, we're very proud of our mobile app. We're very proud of it. But we like to say that are not comparing our mobile app to another airline mobile app. You're, you're comparing it to the last app you probably used. And that might've been the Amazon app. So we have to be as good as the Amazon app, but we have a lot of legacy technology behind it. And so we have really focused on that. >> Good, I want to ask you cause you're a Chief Digital Officer, because this comes up in a lot of our CUBE conversations and around the digital side is that obviously with the virtual now hybrid things, new innovations have happened. So I have to ask you what's changed for the better that's going to be around and what might not be around that you've learned from the pandemic, because these new things are emerging. New standards, new protocols, new digital experiences. What have you learned that's going to stay around and what kind of went away? >> Yeah. >> Well, I think nothing tells you about how important your customers are if you're standing in the middle of O'Hare and not seeing any. And that's what happened in April of 2020, when we actually, there was a day that year, that month that we had more pilots than passengers. It was just, you know, so you realize it's really all about the customer. And what we have to do is make sure that customers choose us. There might be less reasons to fly to certain places all the time, but when you do fly, we want you to pick United. And so it's got to be more than just where we fly. It's got to be the experiences you have with the people. And we have to use the technology to make it easier. I mean, Touchless, wasn't really a thing. QR codes are back. I mean, they were gone, right. And we have QR codes on everything now. Cause you want to get through that airport without having to touch anything, and you do that with your mobile app. >> Yeah. Great innovations. >> It is a great innovation. That contact list is key. You talk about QR cuts coming back. And just some of the things that we've, that we've, some of the silver linings and frankly there have been some the last 22 months or so, but being able to have that experience, that's tailored to me as a consumer. >> Right. I don't need to know what's under the hood enabling it. I just know I want to be able to make transactions or find whatever I need to in the palm of my hand, 24/7. >> Yeah. And you know, for airlines, it usually comes back to something went wrong and frankly, there's always something that going quite right. There's a, there's a weather delay somewhere or maybe your bag didn't get on the same flight you did. And so we want to give you transparency in that and control over what you can do. And so how make it, make it easier to rebook, make you understand what the situation is, be very transparent about it. And we even have something called Connection Saver. And what we do with that is we actually use real time data analytics. And what we do is we say, there's a person that's arriving late. And then we say with real-time weather, real-time connection data. We say, can we hold that flight for Lisa? And we, and we, yeah.(laughing) The worst thing is when that door closed, you run all the way through the airport and they closed the door. Right? We don't want to do, gate agents don't like doing that either. And so we use calculations that say, you know, the wind is blowing in the right direction. The pilots can make up the time. There isn't anybody on the other side, that's going to miss a connection. And so about 2000 times a day, we hold a connection for our customer. >> That's key. If you missed, sometimes just stay overnight. If you miss that connection. >> Especially on the last flight of the day we'll be, we'll be very generous because that doesn't do anybody any good. >> Well, great, great story. I love the keynote, Cloud has changed. I have to ask you this year at re:Invent, what's your observation on the Cloud as the cloud continues to expand, as Adam is talking about, how do you guys see the Cloud evolving for United? >> Well, you know, I, I think what's really impressive here is everybody is coming from every industry. It's not one or two industries that are here, are early adopters in the industry. It really is what you have to do to survive. But I probably would be remiss not to say that, which was really great was that there were two women on the, on the keynote stage and two men. So we were at 50 50 now there are 51% women in the world, but we'll take it. And I, in all seriousness, I do think that there is, there's a lot more diversity here and I think that's good. Not just for AWS. That's good for everybody. >> I couldn't agree more. That was one of the first things I noticed this morning when you took the keynote stage was a strong female leader before you even started telling the story. And that's something from an optics perspective. I know that Amazon is really keen on, but it's nice to hear from your perspective as well that there's, there's that diversity. There's also that thought diversity when you have different perspectives come into play because there's so many dynamics going on these days. But I have to ask you one question. We know we talked to, we, we, we talk about every company, these days being a data company, being a digital company needing to be, to be competitive. >> Right. Do you think of United, should, should we be thinking about United as a digital first company? >> Well, we, we, we connect people, right? And so we are physically moving people from one destination to another and they really want to get there. So we're not going to always be digital, but I would tell you that I often speak with our Chief Customer Officer and our Chief Operating Officer. And it's really hard for us to talk about anything without talking about technology or how it impacts the operation or how it impacts our customer. It's really, really meshing together for sure. >> Great stuff, Linda, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. United Airlines, Chief Digital Officer on the main stage here at re:Invent and now on theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the tech leader in event coverage. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, welcome to theCUBE's coverage of AnsibleFest 2021 virtual; I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We've got a great power panel here from Kyndryl whose great company has spun out of IBM. IT services great, technology, great conversation. Scott Kinane, director of worldwide automation, Anand Gopalakrishnan, chief automation architect, love the title, from Kyndryl, and Lisa Chavez, automations architect from Kyndryl. Guys, thanks for coming on. Appreciate the conversation. Looking forward to it. >> Thanks John glad to be here. >> Thank you. >> Scott, we covered you guys at IBM Think 2021, the new name, everything's happening. The extreme focus, the tactical execution has been pretty much on cloud, cloud native automation. This is the conversation. Knowing how much has gone behind the new name, can you just take a minute to share, give us an update on who Kyndryl is and how that's going? >> Yeah, I'd love to. You know, as Kyndryl, we really have the privilege of being responsible for designing, building, managing, and modernizing, you know, the mission critical systems that the world depends on every day, you know? When our thousands of clients span every industry and are leaders in their industries, right? You run the mission critical application environments for, you know, seven of the 10 largest airlines, 28 of the top 50 banks, right? All the largest mobile providers. You know, most of the largest retailers out there, and so on and so forth, right? That these companies really trust us to ensure that their business operations are really flawlessly being run. And operating our scale, and with the quality that these clients demand, is only possible by doing enterprise strength automation. Right? It's only, you know, it's not only about reactive automation, but using intelligent automation so we can predict and prevent issues before they really become a problem. Right? And because of our intelligent approach to automation, our clients have a... you know, they get tremendous business benefits for it, right? Retailers can open stores faster because systems and services are deployed more efficiently, right? Banks ATM's right, we all depend on those day to day, you know. They're working when you need them with our automation behind the scenes. You know, healthcare systems are more robust and responsive because we monitor for potential breaks and prevent them before they occur, right. Data processing systems, right. We hear about breaches all the time, right? Our clients are more secure because their environments are checked into, are checked to ensure that security exposures are quickly discovered and intermediated, right? So like automation, orchestration, intelligence, driving the world's digital economy, right. If you ask what Kyndryl is it, you know, that's our DNA. And it's really what we do well. >> Yeah, what's interesting, I want to get you to just quick followup on that because the name implies kind of a fresh perspective, working together. There's a lot of shared experiences and that. And the new normal now is honestly with hybrid and virtual continuing, people are doing things differently. And I would like you, if you don't mind taking a minute to share about the automation environment that you guys are operating in, because it's a different approach, but the game is still the same. Right? (John and Scott laugh) You got to make sure that these things are scaling and people are working again. So it's a combination of people and technology, in a new equation. Take a minute to talk about that. >> Yeah, I'd love to. You know, and you're right, right; the game is really changing. And automation is really ingrained into, needs to be ingrained in the way everybody's approaching what they do day to day. And if you talk about automation, in a way it's really included in what we do in our BAU delivery operations, right. And we do it at a tremendous scale, right. Where we have, you know, millions of infrastructure components and applications managed with automation, right. We're going to talk a little bit about CACF here in a few minutes, right? We've got over half a million devices themselves boarded onto that, and we're running over 11 million automations on a month to month basis through that, through the, the Red Hat technology that that's built on, right. We've got RPA as a key part of our environment, running millions of transactions through that on a yearly basis, right. And our automation's really covering the entire stack, right? It's not just about traditional IT, but we cover public cloud, private cloud, hybrid, you know, network components, applications and business processes, right? You talked about people, right. Help desk, right. We cover automation to automate a lot of the help desk processes are happening behind the scenes; security and resiliency. And it's really about driving all that through, you know, not just prescriptive reactions, but you know, us using our experience; insights we have from our data lakes, and intel, and AI ops technologies, and really making proactive based decisions based on that to really help drive the value back for our clients and to ensure that they're operating the way they need to. >> Yeah, that systems mindset, outcome driven focus is unique. That's awesome, congratulations. And onto Lisa, we're going to get into the architect side of it, because you're seeing more and more automation at the center of all the conversation. Reminds me of the machine learning AI vibe a couple of years ago. It's like, oh yeah, everything's MLAI. Automation, now everything's automation. Anand, your title is chief automation architect, love that title. What do you do? Like, I mean, you're architecting more automation, are you? Could you take a minute to explain your role? I love the title. And automation is really the technology driving a lot of the change. What do you do? >> Thank you, John. So let me first thank you for allowing us to come and speak to you and inform here about what we have done using Ansible and the other Red Hat products. So Ansible is one of the many products that we have used within Red Hat to support the solution that we have deployed, Paul, as our automation community framework, right? So, Scott touched upon it a few minutes earlier in terms of what are we doing for our clients? How do we make sure that our client's environment is secure? How do we make sure that our client environment is available all the time? So that... Are the infrastructure services that we're providing for our clients has a direct impact for their clients. So this is where the implementation of automation using the products that we have from Red Hat has helped us achieve. And we'll continue, we will continue to expand on supporting that, right. So let me break this into two parts. One is from an infrastructure standpoint, how we have implemented the solution and scaled it in such a way that we can support the number of devices that Scott was referring to earlier, And also the number of clients that we have touched on. And the second part, I'll let my colleague Lisa talk about the application architecture and the application scalability that we have, right? So firstly, we touch on infrastructure. So if you look at the way we needed to establish a capability to provide support for our clients, we wanted to make sure our infrastructure is available all the time, right? That's very important. So, before we even basically say, hey, we're going to make sure that our client's infrastructure is available all the time or our client's infrastructure is secure. And also we provide, we are able to provide the automation services for the infrastructure service that we're providing, right? So the stack that we built was to support our solution to be truly cloud native. So we began with of course, using OCP, which is the OpenShift cloud platform that we have. We relied on Red Hat CoreOS, which is basically enabling the automation platform to be deployed as a true cloud native application; that can be scalable to not just within one country, but multiple countries. Supporting data privacy that we need to have, supporting the compliance parts of that we need to support, and scalable to support the half a billion devices that we are supporting today. Right? So essentially, if you look at what we have, is a capability enabled on the entire stack of the Red Hat products that we have. And we are able to focus on ensuring that we are able to provide the automation by gaining efficiencies, right? If you look at a lot of automations that we have it's about biggest in complexities, right? So just think about the amount of risk that we are removing, and the quality that we are assuring from the qualified and standardized changes that we are basically implementing. Or, just, the amount of risk that we are able to eliminate by removing thousands of manual labor hours as well. So if you look at the automation need, it's not just about efficiency of the removal of labor hours, but efficiency of providing standards and efficiency of providing the capabilities that support our clients, who their needs; i.e. making sure that their infrastructure is compliant, their infrastructure is secure, and their infrastructure is highly available all the time. So it just basically making sure that we are able to address what we call as day one and day two activities, while we are able to support their day two infrastructure services activities; i.e. right from ground up. Building the server, which is provisioning, doing some provisioning activities, and deploying applications, and basically supporting the applications once they are deployed. So look at the scale, we have quite a bit there. >> So, you got the cloud native platform... >> Hey, careful Anand... >> You've got the cloud native platform, right? Let me just summarize that; cloud native platform for scale. So that means you're aligning, and targeting, and working with people who will want to do cloud native applications. >> Absolutely. >> And they want fast speed. (John laughing) >> Yes, and they want... >> They want everything to go faster. And by the way, the compliance piece is super important because if you can take that away from them, for waiting for the answers from the compliance department or security department, then that's the flywheel. Is that what you're getting at? This is the trend? >> Absolutely. So I'm going to turn it over to Lisa, who's going to help us. >> Yeah >> Go ahead Lisa >> Lisa, weigh in on the flywheel here. (Lisa chuckles) >> Yeah. Sure, sure. Yeah. So, so one of the things that CACF allows us to do, right, and it's again, as Anand described, `it's a very robust, powerful infrastructure. Supports many, many clients as we run a lot of applications through this infrastructure. And we do things like run security health checks on all our client's servers, and process the data real time and get that data out to our teams to address issues almost immediately, right? Scott touched on the fact that we are monitoring incident data real time and taking automated actions to correct problems in the environment. These are just really, really powerful capabilities that we're able to offer. We also have other use cases, we do a lot of identity management, primary and secondary controls through the CACF infrastructure. So we're able to have one point of connectivity into our client's environments. It's agentless, right, so you set up one connection to their servers and we can do a whole lot of management of various things through this single automation platform. So... >> So I, so that just to call this up, this is actually very powerful. And first of all, you mentioned the CACF that's the cloud automation community framework. >> Yes, correct. >> Right. >> Okay, so that's the platform. (Lisa chuckles) >> Yes >> Okay, so now the platforms' there; and now talk about the advantages. Because the power here is this truly highlights the transformation of DevOps, infrastructure as code, and microservices, coming around the corner where the developer; And I know developers want to build security into the applications from day one and take advantage of new services as they come online. That is now one. That puts the pressure on the old IT teams, the old security teams, who have been the NoOps. No, you can't do or slow, are slower. This is a trend, this is actually happening. And this culture shift is happening. Could you guys weigh in on that because this is a really important part of this story. >> Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, if you go back, circa 2019 or so, right. You know, we were back then and we were recognized as a leader in the automation space by a lot of the analysts. But we kind of look at that culture change you were just talking about and look at, you know, how do we become more agile? How do we go faster and what we're doing, right. And then I'm working with Jason McKerr and the Red Hat's Ansible automation platform team. We kind of define this platform that Lisa and Anand are talking to, right. Wrapping together, the OpenShift and Ansible, and 3scale with, you know, our services platform with Watson, and, and, you know, it really gave us the ability to leverage two of our core capabilities, right? The first, you know, in order for us to go faster, was our community model, right? Our community experience, right? So we've got a large delivery community that's out there really experts in a lot of, experts in a lot of technologies and industries. And, and by putting this in place, it gave us a way to really leverage them more in that community model development, so they could create, and we can harvest more of the automation playbooks. A lot of the different use cases that Lisa was talking incident remediation, patch scanning and deployment, security compliance, checking and enforcement. You know, basically anything that needs to get done as part of our what we'd call day one or day two operations we do for a client, right. And Steve's approach really to, to do a lot of high quality automation and get to the point where we could get thousands of automation modules that our clients could, that we could use as a part of our, a part of our services we delivered to the client environments. And, you know, that type of speed and agility, and being able to kind of leverage that was something that wasn't there previously. It also gave us a way to leverage, I guess they are one of our other core capabilities, right; which is a systems integrator, right? So we were able to focus more, by having that core engine in place, we were able to form focus more on our integrator experience and integrate, you know, IBM technologies, ServiceNow, ScienceLogic, VMware, and many more, right to the engine itself. So you know, basically, you know, all the applications out there that the, the clients then depend on for their business environments integrate directly with them; so we could more seamlessly bring the automation to their, to their environments, right. So it really gave us both the, the ability to change our culture, have a community model in place that we didn't before and really leveraged that services integrator expertise that we bring to the table, and act really fast on behalf of our clients out there. >> That's great stuff. Lisa, Lisa if you don't mind, could you share your thoughts on what's different about the community platform, and because automation has been around for a while, you do a couple of times, you do something repetitive, you automate it. Automate it out of way, and that's efficiency. Anand was the one saying that. >> Yeah but within Kyndryl, we have a very strong community and we have very strong security guidelines around what the community produces and what we deliver to our clients, right? So, we give our teams a lot of flexibility, but we also make sure that the content is very secure; we do a lot of testing. We have very strong security teams that do actual physical, penetration testing, right. They actually could try and come in and break things. So, you know, we really feel good about, you know, not only do we give our teams the flexibility, but we also, you know, make sure that it's safe for our clients. >> How's the relationship with Ansible evolving? Because as Ansible continues to do well with automation; automations now, like in automation as code, if things are discoverable, reuse is a big topic in the community model. How is Ansible factoring into your success? >> So... So firstly, I want to break this again into two discussions, right? One is the product itself. And second is how we have collaborated very closely with our colleagues at Red Hat, right? So essentially it's the feedback that we get from our clients, which is then fed into our solution, and then from our solution, we basically say, does it meet what our client's requirements are? If it doesn't, then we work with our Red Hat colleagues and say, hey, you know, we need some enhancements to be made. And we've been, we've been lucky enough to work with our colleagues at Red Hat, very closely, where we have been able to make some core product changes to support our clients requirements, right. And that's very, very important in terms of the collaboration from, with Red Hat, from a, you know, from a client standpoint. That's number one. Number two, from a product standpoint, Ansible, and the use of Ansible itself, right? Or Ansible Tower as the automation hub that we've been using. So we began this with a very base product capability, which was through what we call event automation. That was our first. Then we said, no, I think we can certainly look at expanding this to beyond event automation. I.e. can we do, when we say event that is very typically BAU activities, day two activities. But then we said, can we, can we do day one, day two infrastructure services automation? We said yes, why not? And then we worked again with our colleagues at Red Hat, identifying opportunities to improve on those. And we basically enhanced the framework to support those additional use cases that we basically identified. And as a matter of fact, we are continually looking at improving as well. In terms of not just hey, using the base product as is, but also receiving that feedback, giving that feedback to our Red Hat colleagues, and then implementing it as we go. So that's the, that's the approach we have taken. >> And what's the other half of the subject? Split it in two, What's the other half? >> Yep. But the other half is the actual implementation itself. So we like, which is basically expanding the use cases to go from beyond event automation to back from building the server, to also patching compliance. And now we're actually looking at even what we call service requests automation. By this is we basically want to be able to say hey user, we want a specific action to be performed on a particular end point. Can we take it to that next level as well? So that's where we are basically looking at as we progress. So we're not done. I would say we're still at the beginning of expansion. >> Yeah. >> Well no, I totally agree. I think it's early days, and I think a lot of it's, you mentioned day two operations; I love that. Day zero, day one, day two. Does anyone want to take a stab at defining what day two operations is? (John laughing) >> Do you want to go? >> Well, I got the experts here. It's good to get the definitions out there. >> Absolutely. >> 'Cause day one you're provisioned, right? >> Day zero, you provision. >> Day zero you provision. >> So day zero they look at... Yeah, so day zero you look at what is the infrastructure, what's the hardware that's there. And then day one you do what we call post provisioning activities, configuring everything that we need to do, like deploying the middleware applications, making sure the applications are configured properly, making sure that our, you know, the operating systems that we need to have. Whether it is a base operating system or operating systems for supporting the containers that are basically going to be enabled, all those will need to be looked at, right? So that's day one. Then day two is business as usual. >> Everything breaks on day two. (everyone laughs) >> Although I... >> Day one's fun, everything's good, we got everything up and running. We stood it up, and day two it breaks; And like, you know it's his fault. >> Exactly. >> Who's fault is it? (everyone laughing) So if you look at the approach that we took was, we said, let's start with the day two, then get to day zero, right. So which time where we have lots of lessons learned as we go through. And that's the expansion of how we are looking at Ansible. >> Well this is, all fun aside. First of all, it's all fun to have, to have to have jokes like that; but the reality is that the hardened operational discipline required to go beyond day one is critical, right? So this is where we start getting into the ops side where security downtime, disruptive operations, it's got to be programmable. And by the way, automation is in there too. So which means that it's not humans it's software running. Right? So, edge is going to complicate the hell out of that too. So, day two becomes super important from an architecture standpoint. You guys are the architects; what's the strategy, what should people be doing? What, what, how should, because day one is fun. You get it up, stand it up. But then it starts getting benefit; people start paying attention. >> Yep. _ And then you need to scale it and harden it. What's the strategy? What should people do? >> Yeah. I mean, if you think about automation, right? It's not... oh, I should, I meant to say John, you know, if it breaks, it's always Anand's fault, always Anand's. (John, Lisa, and Anand laugh) Don't ask any of that. >> I agree. >> Exactly. Thank you, Lisa. (everyone laughing) But, but automate, you know, you know, automation in a lot of conversations, people talk about it as gaining efficiency. And you know, it's not just that, you know, Automation is about de-risking complexities. Right? Think about all the risk that's removed, you know, and quality assured from the codified and standardized changes, right. Think about all the risk removed from eliminating, you know, tens of thousands of manual labor hours that have to be done. And those various things, right, that get done. So, for, we talk about day two operations, what we're doing, getting more automation in there, you know, our focus is definitely how do we de-risk changes? How do we make it safer for the clients? How do we make it more secure for the clients? And how do we ensure that their business operations, you know, are operating at their peak efficiencies? >> Yeah. And as I mentioned, we really go above and beyond on the security. We have much, much, much automated testing. And we also have the penetration testing I was talking about, so. We take security very seriously. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think what's interesting about what you guys are doing with the platform is, it's cloud native. You start to see not just the replatforming, but the fun parts. When you start thinking about refactoring applications and benefits start to come out of nowhere; I go new benefits, new net, new use cases. So I think the outcomes side of this is interesting. A lot of people talk about, okay let's focus on the cost, but there's now net new positive, potentially revenue impact for your customers. This is kind of where the game changes a lot. What do you guys think about that; 'cuz that's, you know, you always have this argument with folks who are very cost centric, repatriated for getting off the cloud, or let's look at the net new opportunities that are going to be enabled by rapid programming, identifying new workflows, automating them, and creating value. >> Yeah. I mean, this is, you know, you're talking about the future where we're going, things that we do, you know, obviously getting more closer to, and being directly aligned with the DevSecOps teams that are out there. You talk about day two, you know, the closer we are to those guys, the better for, for us and everybody else that's going there, going forward. You know, and as you know, businesses keep returning to their pre COVID level levels, you know, automation gives the possibility and that ones that we were doing gives possibility for hopefully the clients to do more of that revenue capture, right. Being able to, you know, be ahead a little bit earlier, being able to stand up retail stores faster, right. Being able to deploy business-based applications that are, generating revenue for the clients at a you know, you know, at a moment's notice. Things like that are really possible with automation, and possible with the way we've done this solution with Red Hat and our clients, right. And I think we've got tons of benefits there. We're seeing, you know, we've got almost 900 clients supported on it today, right. You know Anand hit on, we've got half a million plus devices that are connected to this, right. And we're seeing things where, you know, the clients are, are, that are on this are, are getting results, you know, Something such as 61% of all tickets being resolved with no human intervention, you know, 84% of their entire service base server base is being checked automatically for security and compliance daily. And, and, you know, we could go through lots of those different metrics, but the, you know, the fact we can do that for our clients gives, gives through automation, gives, you know, our engineers, our delivery community, the ability to closely more closely work with the client to do those revenue generation activities; to help them capture more, more revenue in the market. >> We'll just put that in context, the scale and speed of what's happening with those numbers; I mean, it's significant. It's not like it's a small little test. That's like large scale. Scale's the advantage of cloud. Cloud is a scale game. The advantage is scaling and handling that scale. What's your thoughts? >> Absolutely. So if you basically, again, when we started this, we started small, right. In terms of the use cases that we wanted to tackle, the number of devices that we said we could basically handle, right. But then once we saw the benefits, the initial benefits of how quickly we were able to fix some of the problems from a day one day, two standpoint; or address some of the compliance and patching issues that we needed to look at, right. We, we quickly saw opportunities and said, how fast can we go? And in terms of, well, it's not just how fast can we go in terms of setting up our own infrastructure by you know, saying, hey, we are cloud native. I can just spin up another container and, you know, make sure that I can have another a hundred servers onboarded to support, or a hundred that network devices to be onboarded to support and so on, right. So it was also the scale from a automation standpoint, where we needed to make sure that our resources were skilled, to develop the automations as well. So the scale is not in terms of just the infrastructure, but the scale is also in terms of people that can do the automation in terms of, you know, providing the services for our infrastructure, right. So that's how we approached it. People and then an application and infrastructure. So that included providing education in, in Kyndryl today rose to about 11,000 people that we have trained on Ansible, the use of Ansible, and the use of Ansible Tower, and just even doing development of the playbooks using Ansible. That's a theme. if you look at, if you look at, it's not just infrastructure scale. It's infrastructure scale, application to be able to scale to that infrastructure, and people to be able to scale to what we're trying to do to support our clients as well. >> I think the people think is huge because you have a side benefit here as harmony, and the teams. You got cohesiveness that breeds peace, not war. (everyone laughs) >> Absolutely. >> That's between teams. >> If you look at the, you know, the words that we said; cloud automation, community framework. If you really break it down, right, it's a framework, but for who? It's for the community. >> Yeah. >> But, what are they doing? They're building automation. >> Yeah >> And that is what >> The Security team wants to, >> the cloud is about, right? >> The security team wants to, make the apps go faster, The apps want to be fast, they don't want to be waiting. Everything's about going faster; Pass, shoot, score, as they say in sports. But, but, okay, I love this conversation. I think it's going to be the beginning of a big wave. How do people engage and how do I get involved if I want to use the cloud automation community framework? What's the consumption side for, how do you guys push this out there, and how do people engage with you? >> Scott do you want to take that one? >> Yeah. I mean the, the easiest way is, you know, Kyndryl, you know, we're, we're out there. We're, coming forward with our company, a spin off from IBM, come engage with our sales reps, come engage with our, our outsourcing, our social risk management service delivery organizations, and, and, you know, happy to get them engaged, get them on board, and get them using the automation framework we've got in place. >> That's awesome. Great. Well, great stuff. Love the automation conversation. Automation and hybrid are the big, big trends that are never going to stop. It's going to be a hybrid world we live in. And the edge is exciting. It's got, you mentioned the edge; it's just more and more action. It's a distributed computing paradigm. I mean, it really the same. We've seen this movie before Anand. Yeah, in tech. So now it's automation. So great stuff. Lisa, thank you for coming on; I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you, John. >> Thank you, John. We have coverage for Ansible Fest 2021. Power panel breaking down automation with Kyndryl. The importance of community, the importance of cohesiveness with teams, but more importantly, the outcome, the speed of development and security. I'm John for theCUBE, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(smooth upbeat music) >> Hello, everybody, John Walls here. Welcome to "theCUBE," in our continuing coverage of Ansible Fest 2021. We now welcome onto "theCUBE," three representatives from Red Hat. Joining us is Ashesh Badani. Who's the Senior Vice President of Products at Red Hat. Ashesh, thank you for joining us today. >> Thanks for having me, John. >> You bet. Also with us Stefanie Chiras, who is the Senior Vice President of the Platforms Business Group also at Red Hat. And Stefanie, how are you doing? >> Good, thanks, it's great to be here with you, John. >> Excellent, thanks for joining us. And last, but certainly not least, Joe Fitzgerald, who is the Vice President and General Manager of the Ansible Business Unit at Red Hat. Joe, good to see you today, thanks for being with us. >> Good to see you again John, thanks for having us. >> It's like, like the big three at Red Hat. I'm looking forward to this. Stefanie, let's just jump in with you and let's talk about what's going on in terms of automation in the hybrid cloud environment these days. A lot of people making that push, making their way in that direction. Everybody trying to drive more value out of the hybrid cloud environment. How is automation making that happen? How's it making it work? >> We have been focused at Red Hat for a number of years now on the value of open hybrid cloud. We really believe in the value of being able to give your applications flexibility, to use the best technology, where you want it, how you need it, and pulling all of that together. But core to that value proposition is making sure that it is consistent, it is secure and it is able to scale. And that's really where automation has become a core space. So as we continue to work our portfolio and our ecosystems and our partnerships to make sure that that open hybrid cloud has accessibility to everything that's new and relevant in this changing market we're in, the automation space that Ansible drives is really about making sure that it can be done in a way that is predictable. And that is really essential as you start to move your workloads around and start to leverage the diversity that an open hybrid cloud can deliver. >> When you're bringing this to a client, and Joe, perhaps you can weigh in on this as well. I would assume that as you're talking about automation, there's probably a lot of, successful head-nodding this way, but also some kind of this way too. There's a little bit of fear, right? And maybe just, they have these legacy systems, there's maybe a little distrust, I don't want to give away control, all these things. So how do you all answer those kinds of concerns when you're talking to the client about this great value that you can drive, but you got to get them there, right? You have to bring them along a bit. >> It's a great question, John, and look, everybody wants to get the hybrid cloud, as Stefanie mentioned. That journey is a little complicated. And if you had silos and challenges before you went to a hybrid cloud, you're going to have more when you got there. We work with a lot of customers, and what we see is this sort of shift from, I would call it low-level task automation to much more of a strategic focus on automation, but there's also the psychology of automation. One of the analysts recently did some research on that. And imagine just getting in your car and letting the car drive you down the street to work. People are still not quite comfortable with that level of automation, they sort of want to be able to trust, but verify, and maybe have their hands near the wheel. You couldn't take the wheel away from them. We see the same thing with automation. They need automation and a lot automation, or they need to be able to verify what it is doing, what they do, what it's going to do. And once they build that confidence, then they tend to do it at scale. And we're working with a lot of customers in that area. >> Joe, you're talking about a self-driving car, that'll never work, right? (laughs) You us bring an interesting point though. Again, I get that kind of surrendering control a little bit and Ashesh, I would assume in the product development world, that's very much your focus, right? You're looking for products that people, not only can use, but they're also comfortable with. That they can accept and they can integrate, and there's buy-in, not only on the engineering level, but also on the executive level. So maybe walk us through that product development, staging or phases, however you want to put it, that you go through in terms of developing products that you think people, not only need, but they'll also accept. >> I think that's absolutely right. You know, I think both Stefanie and Joe, led us off here. I talked about hybrid cloud and Joe, started talking about moving automation forward and getting people comfortable. I think a lot of this is, meeting customers where they are and then helping them get on the journey, right? So we're seeing that today, right? So traditional configuration management on premise, but at the same time, starting to think about, how do we take them out into the cloud, bringing greater automation to bear there. But so that's true for us across our existing customer base, as well as the new customers that we see out there. So doing that in a way that Joe talked about, right? Ensuring the trust, but verify is in play, is critical. And then there's another area which I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more about, right? Is ensuring that security implications are taken into account as we go through it. >> Well, let's just jump into security, that's one of the many considerations these days. About ensuring that you have the secure operation, you're doing some very complex tasks here, right? And you're blending multi-vendor environments and multi-domain environments. I mean you've got a lot, you're juggling a lot. So I guess to that extent, how much of a consideration is security and those multiple factors today, for you. And again, I don't know which one of the three of you might want to jump on this, but I would assume, this is a high priority, if not the highest priority, because of the headlines that security and those challenges are garnering these days. >> Well, there's the general security question and answer, right? So this is the whole, shift-left DevSecOps, sort of security concerns, but I think specific to this audience, perhaps I can turn over to Joe to talk a little bit about how Ansible has been playing in the security domain. >> Now, it's a great way to start, Ashesh. People are trying to shift left, which means move, sort of security earlier on in the process where people are thinking about it and development process, right? So we've worked with a lot of customers who were trying to do DevSecOps, right? And to provide security, automation capabilities during application build and deployment. Then on the operational side, you have this ongoing issue of some vulnerability gets identified, how fast can I secure my environment, right? There's a whole new area of security, orchestration, automation, or remediation that's involved, and the challenge people have is just like with networking or other areas, they've got dozens in some cases, hundreds of different systems across their enterprise that they have to integrate with, in order to be able to close a vulnerability, whether it's deploying a patch or closing a port, or changing firewall configuration, this is really complicated and they're being measured by, okay, there's this vulnerability, how fast can we get secure? And that comes down to automation, it has to. >> Now, Joe, you mentioned customers, if you would maybe elaborate a little bit about the customers that we've been hearing from on the stage, the virtual stage, if you will, at Ansible Fest this year and maybe summarize for our audience, what you're hearing from those customers, and some of those stories when we're talking about the actual use of the platform. >> Yeah, so Ansible Fest is our annual, automation event, right? For Ansible users. And I think it's really important to hear from the customers. We're vendors, we can tell you anything you want and try and get you to believe it. Customers they're actually doing stuff, right? And so, at Ansible Fest, we've got a great mix of customers that are really pushing the envelope. I'll give you one example, JP Morgan Chase. They're talking about how in their environment with focus over the past couple of years, they've now gotten to a level of maturity with automation, where they have over 50,000 people that are using Ansible automation. They've got a community of practice where they've got people in over twenty-two countries, right? That are sharing over 10,000 playbooks, right? I mean, they've taken automation strategically and embraced it and scaled it out at a level that most other organizations are envious of, right? Another one, and I'm not going to go through the list, but another one I'll mention is Discover, which sort of stepped back and looked at automation strategically and said, we need to elevate this to a strategic area for the company. And they started looking at across all different areas, not just IT automation, business process automation, on their other practices internally. And they're doing a presentation on how to basically analyze where you are today and how to take your automation initiatives forward in a strategic way. Those are usually important to other organizations that maybe aren't as far along or aren't on a scale of that motivation. >> Yeah, so Stefanie, I see you nodding your head and you're talking about, when Joe was just talking about assessment, right? You have to kind of see where are we, how mature are we on our journey right now? So maybe if you could elaborate on that a little bit, and some of the key considerations that you're seeing from businesses, from clients and potential clients, in terms of the kind of thought process they're going through on their journey, on their evolution. >> I think there's a lot of sort of values that customers are looking for when they're on their automation journey. I think efficiency is clearly one. I think one that ties back to the security discussion that we talked about. And I use the term consistency, but it's really about predictability. And I think I have a lot of conversations with customers that if they know that it's consistently deployed, particularly as we move out and are working with customers at the edge, how do they know that it's done the same way every time and that it's predictable? There's a ton of security and confidence built into that. And I think coming back to Joe's point, it is a journey providing transparency and visibility is step one, then taking action on that is then step two. And I think as we look at the customers who are on this automation journey, it's them understanding what's the value they're looking for? Are they looking for consistency in the deployments? Are they looking for efficiency across their deployments? Are they looking for ways to quickly migrate between areas in the open hybrid cloud? What is the value they're looking for? And then they look at how do they start to build in confidence in how they deliver that. And I think it starts with transparency. The next step is starting to move into taking action, and this is a space where Joe and the whole team, along with the community have really focused on pulling together things like collections, right? Playbooks that folks can count on and deploy. We've looked within the portfolio, we're leveraging the capabilities of this type of automation into our products itself with Red Hat enterprise Linux, we've introduced systems roles. And we're seeing a lot of by pulling in that Ansible capability directly into the product, it provides consistency of how it gets deployed and that delivers a ton of confidence to customers. >> So, Ashesh I mean, Stefanie was talking about, the customers and obviously developing, I guess, cultural acceptance and political acceptance, within the ranks there. Where are we headed here, past what know now in terms of the traditional applications and traditional automations and whatever. Kind of where is this going, if you would give me your crystal ball a bit about automation and what's going to happen here in the next 12-18 months. >> So what I'm going to do, John, is try to marry two ideas. So we talked about hybrid cloud, right? Stefanie started talking about joining a hybrid cloud. I'm going to marry automation with containers, right? On this journey of hybrid cloud, right? And give you two examples, both some successful progress we've been making on that front, right? Number one, especially for the group here, right? Check out the Ansible collection for Kubernetes, it's been updated for Python Three, of course, with the end-of-life for Python Two, but more important, right? It's the focus on improving performance for large automation tasks, right? Huge area where Ansible shines, then taking advantage of turbo mode, where instead of the default being a single connection to a Culebra API, for every request that's out there with turbo mode turned on, the API connection gets reused significantly and obviously improving performance. Huge other set of enhancements as well, right? So I think that's an interesting area for the Ansible community to leverage and obviously to grow. And the second one that I wanted to call out was just kind of the, again, back to this sort of your notion of the marriage of automation with containers, right? Is the work that's going on, on the front of the integration, the tight integration between Ansible as well as Red Hat's, advanced cluster management, right? Which is helping to manage Kubernetes clusters at scale. So now Red Hat's ACM technology can help our monthly trigger Ansible playbooks, upon key lifecycle actions that have happened. And so taking advantage of technologies like operators, again, core Kubernetes construct for the hybrid cloud environment. This integration between advanced cluster management and Ansible, allows for much more efficient execution of tasks, right? So I think that's really powerful. So wrapping that up, right? This world of hybrid cloud really can be brought together by just a tighter integration between working Ansible as well as the work that's going on on the container plant. >> Great, well, thank you. Ashesh, Stefanie, Joe, thank you all for sharing the time here. Part of our Ansible Fest coverage here, enjoy the conversation and continuous success at Red Hat. Thank you for the time today. >> Thank you so much John. >> Thank you. >> You bet. I'm joined here by three executives at Red Hat, talking about our Ansible Fest 2021 coverage. I'm John Walls, and you're watching "theCUBE." (bright music)

>>from around the globe. >>It's the cube >>covering fortunate security summit brought to you by ford in it. >>Welcome back to the cubes coverage, affording that security summit at the ford championship here in napa. I'm lisa martin and I'm very pleased to welcome back to the cube kenzi founder and chairman and ceo affording that, ken. Welcome back to the program. >>Thank you is uh, we're happy to be here after almost two years and uh, >>I know it's great to see you in person. I was saying before we went live, I forgot how tall you are. So this is a great event. But I want you to talk to me a little bit about some of the amazing growth. The Fortinet has seen 500,000 customers close to 30% year on year growth continuing to post solid earnings stock is more than double this year. What are some of the things that you attribute this group to and what do you think in your opinion differentiates format? >>I think some of the more strategic long term investment we made started paying off like uh, we're still the only company actually develop basic chip which can making a huge computing power advantage compared to using software to all the security function computing Because security tend to need about like 1300 times more company in power to process the same data as a routing switching. So that's where for the network security definitely a chap, a huge advantage And we invested very early and take a long term and also a big investment and so far started paying off the other thing we also keeping a lot of innovation and the internal organic growth for the company instead of do a lot of acquisition and that's also started making all these different products integrate well ultimately to get well. And that's also driving a huge growth, not just that was security, but also we see the fabric also has global fast, >>interesting. So you're really keeping it organic, which is not common a lot of these days we see a lot of acquisitions, but one of the things, a lot of growth, another thing that we do know that's growing is the threat landscape I was mentioning before we went live that I spoke with Derek Manky a couple times this summer and John Madison and the global threat landscape report showing ransomware up nearly 11 times in the last year. Of course we had this rapid transition to work from home and all these devices on accessing corporate networks from home. Talk to me about some of the security challenges that you're helping customers deal with. >>I think during the pandemic, definitely you see a lot of security issues that come up because work from home with your remote access a lot of important information, a lot of important data there At the same time. The ransomware attacks studying like a mentioning 11 times compared to like one or two years ago all this driving all there's a new technology for security. So now you cannot just secure the board anymore. So you have a secure the whole infrastructure. Both internal to a lot of internal segmentation And also go outside security when like I see when the 5G. Connection and how to secure work from home and they trust their trust access environment all these drive a lot of security growth. So we see the yeah it's a it's a pretty healthy market >>it's definitely a healthy market that's one thing looking at it from that lens. What are some of the customer conversation? How have the customer conversations changed? Are you now talking with different levels and organizations security Being a board level conversation discussion and talk to me about how those conversations have evolved. >>Security now become very important part of I. T. And uh pretty much all top one top two on the 80 spending now and the same time what to work from home or some other uh definitely seeing the board level conversation right now because you can see if there's a security issue for the company the damage could be huge. Right? So that's where the secure awareness especially ransomware is very very huge And plus the supply chain issues some other attack on the infrastructure. So we see a lot of security conversation in the bowl level in the Ceo in the in the executive level now compared to before more I. T. Conversation. So it's to drive the huge awareness of security and that's also we see everybody citing concerns security now. >>But I'm sure I imagine that's across every industry. Yes. >>Yeah pretty much all the vertical right? And especially a lot of new area traditionally they don't have much security like some smb some consumer some traditional Ot IOT space now it's all security studying that very important for them now. >>So let's talk about, here we are. The security summit at the fortunate championship. Give me your perspective on the P. G. A. Ford in that relationship. >>Uh first I think it's a golf is also event sports especially during the epidemic that's probably become the most favorite spot. And for me also I'm a golfer for 30 years. Never market golfer but I love the sport on the other side we see sometimes it's uh working with a lot of a customer a lot of a partner they behave if we can combine some business and there was certain like activity especially outdoor that's also be great. And also helping Brandon and that's another way we can contribute back to the community. So they say hey then then that's that's the first time for us. We just love it gets going. >>It's great to be outdoors right at 40 minutes doing an event outdoors showing that yes you can do that safely. But also I also hear from some of your other team members that it's a very culturally synergistic relationship. The pgn format. >>Yes. Exactly. Yeah that's where we love this golf and especially working with a different partner and different partner and also all the team working together. So it's a team sport kind of on the other side it's all do and enjoy a combined working uh activity altogether. Everybody love it. >>Something that so many of us have missed Ken for the last 18 months or so. So we're at the security summit, there's over 300 technology leaders here. Talk to me about some of the main innovations that are being discussed. >>Uh definitely see security starting uh little covered whole infrastructure and uh especially in a lot of environment. Traditionally no security cannot be deployed like internal segmentation because internal network can be 10, 200 faster than the one connection. So it has to be deployed in the in the internal high speed environment whether inside the company or kind of inside the data center, inside the cloud on the other side, like a lot of one connection traditionally like whether they see one or the traditional like cuba more than the S E O. They also need to be combined with security and also in the zero trust access environment to really supporting work from home and also a lot of ot operation technology and a lot of other IOT space utility. All these different kind of like environment need to be supported, sometimes recognized environment. So we see security studying deport everywhere whether the new small city or the like connected car environment and we just see become more and more important. That's also kind of we studying what we call in a secure driven networking because traditionally you can see today's networking just give you the connectivity and speed so they treat everything kind of uh no difference but with security driven network and you can make in the networking decision move based on the security function, like a different application or different content, different user, different device, even different location, you can make a different kind of level decision so that we see is a huge demand right now can make the whole environment, whole infrastructure much secure. >>That's absolutely critical that pivot to work from home was pretty much overnight a year and a half ago and we still have so many people who are permanently remote, remote but probably will be permanently and a good amount will be hybrid in the future, some TBD amount. Uh and one of the challenges is of course you've got people suddenly from home you've got a pandemic. So you've got an emotional situation, you've got people multitasking, they've got kids at home trying to learn maybe spouses working, they're trying to do Everything by a video conferencing and collaboration tools and the security risks. There are huge and we've seen some of that obviously reflected in the nearly 11 x increase in ransomware but talk to me about what 14 announced yesterday with links is to help on that front in a considerable way. >>That's where we totally agree with you the work from home or kind of hybrid way to work in. Pretty much will become permanent. And that's where how to make a home environment more kind of supporting is a remote working especially like when you have a meeting, there are some other things going on in the whole activity and also sometimes data you access can be pretty important, pretty confidential. That's where whether in the zero trust environment or making the home connection more reliable, more secure. It's all very, very important for us. Uh, that's where we were happy to partner with Lynxes and some other partner here uh, to support in this hybrid working environment to make work from home more secure. And uh, as we see is a huge opportunity, >>huge opportunity and a lot of industries, I had the pleasure of talking with links to Ceo Harry do is just an hour or so ago and I asked him what are some of the vertical, since we know from a security and a ransomware perspective, it's just wide open. Right, Nobody's safe anymore from it. But what are some of the verticals that you think are going to be early adopters of this technology, government health care schools, >>I think pretty much all vertical start and see this work from home and it's very, very important for us. There's a few top vertical, traditionally finance service, uh, spend a lot of money healthcare, spend a lot of money on security. So they are still the same? We don't see that change March on the other side. A lot of high tech company, which also one of the big vertical for us now, I say maybe half or even more than half the employee they want to work for home. So that's also making they say uh they call home branch now, so it's just make home always just secure and reliable as a branch office and at the same time of Southern government and the sort of education vertical and they all started C is very, very important to do this, remote their trust access approach and the same time working with a lot of service providers to supporting this, both the D. N. A. And also the sassy approach. So we are only companies on the saturday company partner, a lot of IT service provider. We do believe long term of the service provider, they have the best location, best infrastructure, best team to supporting Sassy, which we also build ourselves. If customers don't have a service provider, we're happy to supporting them. But if they have a service provider, we also prefer, they go to service provider to supporting them because we also want to have a better ecosystem and making everybody like uh benefit has women's situation. So that's what we see is whether they trust no access or sassy. Very happy to work with all the partners to making everybody successful. >>And where our customers in that evolution from traditional VPN to Z T and a for example, are you seeing an acceleration of that given where we are in this interesting climate >>uh definitely because work from home is uh if you try to access use VPN, you basically open up all the network to the home environment which sometimes not quite secure, not very reliable. Right? So that's where using a Z T N A, you can access a certain application in a certain like environment there. And the same leverage ste when there's other huge technology advantage can lower the cost of the multiple link and balance among different costs, different connection and uh different reliability there. Uh it's a huge advantage, >>definitely one of the many advantages that reporting it has. So this afternoon there's going to be a, as part of the security summit, a panel that you and several other Fortinet execs are on taking part in A Q and a, what are some of the topics that you think are going to come up? And as part of that Q and >>A. I see for certain enterprise customer, definitely the ransomware attack, how to do the internal segmentation, how to securely do the remote access work from home. So we are very important For some service provider. We also see how to supporting them for the sassy environment and certain whole infrastructure security, whether the 5G or the SD went because everyone has a huge demand and uh it's a group over for us, we become a leader in the space. It's very very important for them. We also see uh like a different vertical space, Some come from healthcare, some from come from education. Uh they all have their own kind of challenge. Especially like there's a lot of uh oh T IOT device in healthcare space need to be secured and the same thing for the O. T. IOT space, >>Tremendous amount of opportunity. One thing I want to ask it, get your opinion on is the cybersecurity skills gap. It's been growing year, over year for the last five years. I know that just last week 14 that pledge to train one million professionals in the next five years, you guys have been focused on this for a while. I love that you have a veterans program. I'm the daughter of a Vietnam combat veterans. So that always warms my heart. But is that something, is the cybersecurity skills got something that customers ask you ken? How do you recommend? We saw this? >>Yes, we have been doing this for over 10 years. We have the program, we call the network secured expert program a different level. So we have 24 million people. We also commit a traditional million people because there's a huge shortage of the scale separate security expert there. So we do work in with over like a 4500 university globally at the same time. We also want to offer the free training to all the people interested, especially all the veterans and other Like even high school graduate high school student there and at the same time anyone want to learn several security. We feel that that's, that's very good space, very exciting space and very fast-growing space also still have a huge shortage globally. There's a 3-4 million shortage of skilled people in the space, which is a or fast growing space. And so we were happy to support all the train education with different partners at the same time, try to contribute ourselves. >>I think that's fantastic. Will be excited to see over the next five years that impact on that training one million. And also to see it to your point with how much the industry is changing, how much, how fast supporting that's growing. There's a lot of job opportunity out there. I think it was Sandra who said that I was talking to her this morning that there's no job security like cybersecurity. It's really true. If you think about it. >>Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. Like remember a few years ago when we started the first time to do all this interview, I said, hey, it's a barber hot space now, let's get harder and harder, more people interested now. And I really thank you cube and you give all the support it all these years and we're happy to be here. >>Absolutely. It's our pleasure. Well, I know you are paired up. You said tomorrow with Phil Mickelson for the pro am. That's pretty exciting, ken. >>I'm not sure I'm a very good golfer, but I will try my best. >>You try your best. I'm sure it will be a fantastic experience. Thank you for having the cube here for bringing people back together for this event, showing that we can do this, we can do this safely and securely. And also what Fortinet is doing to really help address that cyber security skills gap and uh, really make us more aware of the threats and the landscape and how we, as individuals and enterprises can help sort to quiet that storm >>also will be happy to be here and also being honored to be part of the program at the same time. We also want to thank you a lot of partner model customer and join us together for this big PJ event and thank you for everyone. >>Absolutely. And you guys are a big partner driven organization. I'm sure the partners appreciate that, ken, Thank you so much. >>Thank you. Thank you lisa >>for kenzi. I'm lisa martin. You're watching the cue from the Fortinet security summit in napa valley. >>Yeah. Mhm

>> It's The Cube covering Fortinet Security Summit brought to you by Fortinet. >> Hey and welcome back to the cubes coverage of Fortinets championship series. Cybersecurity summit here in Napa valley Fortinet is sponsoring the PGA tour event, kicking off the season here, and the cubes here as part of the coverage. And today is cybersecurity day where they bring their top customers in. We got Glenn Katz SVP, general manager, Comcast Enterprise Solutions. Glenn, thanks for coming on The Cube. Thanks for taking time out of your day. - Thank you no This is great. This is great. >> Interviewer: Tell me to explain what you guys do in the Comcast business enterprise group. >> That's our Comcast business. We're a part of Comcast overall. I always like to explain what Comcast really is. If you look at Comcast, it's a technology innovation company by itself that happens to focus on communications and media type of, of markets, right? And if you look at the Comcast side there on the communication side, it's really everything residential with customers. Then there's the us Comcast business and we're the fastest growing entity over the last 15 years within Comcast. And we started in small business, voice, video, and data to small businesses. Then we moved up to provide fiber ethernet type of a transport to mid-market. And then my group started in 2014. And what we do is focus on managed services. It doesn't matter who the transport layer is for enterprise Fortune 1000 type companies. And then when you layer in all these managed wider network services. So that's my business unit. >> Interviewer: Well, we appreciate it we're a customer by the way in Palo Alto >> Glen: Oh great >> So give a shout out to you guys. Let's get into the talk you're giving here about cybersecurity, because I mean, right now with the pandemic, people are working at home. Obviously everyone knows the future of work is hybrid now you're going to see more decentralized defy and or virtual spaces where people are going to want to work anywhere and businesses want to have that extension, right? What people are talking about, and it's not new, but it's kind of new in the sense of reality, right? You've got to execute. This is a big challenge. >> Glen: It is - What's your thoughts on that, >> Well it's a big challenge. And one of the things that I'll try to, I'll speak to this afternoon here, which is at least from the enterprise perspective, which includes the headquarters, the enterprise, the branch locations, the digital commerce, everywhere else, commerce is being done. It's not just at a store anymore. It's everywhere. Even if you only have a store and then you have the remote worker aspect. I mean, they do that to your point earlier. We're not in that fortress sort of security mentality anymore. There's no more DMZs it's done. And so you've got to get down to the zero trust type of network architecture. And how do you put that together? And how does that work? Not just for remote workers that have to access the enterprise applications, but also for simple, you know, consumers or the business customers of these, of these enterprises that have to do business from over the phone or in the store. >> Interviewer: What are the some of the challenges you hear from your customers, obviously, business of the defend themselves now the, the, the attacks are there. There's no parameters. You mentioned no fortress. There's more edge happening, right? Like I said, people at home, what are the top challenges that you're hearing from customers? >> So the biggest challenge, and this is, I would think this is, this is mostly focused on the enterprise side of it is that the is two interesting phenomenons going on. This is sort of beginnings before the pandemic. And then of course the pandemic, the role of the CIO has been elevated to now, they have a real seat at the table. Budgets are increasing to a point, but the expertise needed in these, in these it departments for these large enterprises, it's, it's impossible to do what you were just talking about, which is create a staff of people that can do everything from enterprise applications, e-commerce analytics, the network. How do you secure that network all the way down to the end users? Right? So it's that middle portion. That's the biggest challenge because that takes a lot of work and a lot of effort. And that's where folks like Comcast can come in and help them out. That's their biggest challenge. They can handle the enterprise, they can handle the remote workers. They can handle their own applications, which are continually trying to be, you know, have to be it's competitive out there. It's that middle area, that communications layer that their challenged with. >> Interviewer: Yeah. And John Madison's EVP, CMO Ford. It's always talking about negative unemployment in cybersecurity. Nevermind just the staff that do cyber >> Glen: That's exactly right, that's given. If you're a business, you can't hire people fast enough and you might not have the budget for you want to manage service. So how do you get cyber as a service? >> Glen: Well, so it's even bigger than that. It's not just the cyber as a service because it's now a big package. That's what SASE really is SASE is Secure Access Service Edge. But think of it where I think of it is you've got remote users, remote workers, mobile apps on one side, you've got applications, enterprise or commercial that are now moved into different cloud locations. And in the middle, you've got two real fundamental layers, the network. And, and that includes uh, the actual transport, the software defined wide area, networking components, everything that goes with that, that's the network as a service. And then you've got the secure web gateway portion, which includes everything to secure all the data, going back and forth between your remote laptop, the point of sales. And let's say the cloud based applications, right? So that's really the center stage right there. >> Interviewer: And the cloud has brought more service at the top of the stack. I mean, people thought down stack up stack is kind of like a geeky terms. You're talking about innovation. If you're down stack with network and transport, those are problems that you have to solve on behalf of your customers And make that almost invisible. And that's your job >> That's our job. That's our job is to service provider What's interesting is though back in the day, I mean, when, I mean, back in the day, it could have been 10 years ago in 20. You really, you know, you had stable networks, they were ubiquitous, they were expensive and they were slow. That's kind of the MPLS legacy TDM. Yeah. So you just put them in and you walked away and you still did all your enterprise. You still did all of your applications, but you had your own private data centers. Everything was nicer. It was that fortress mentality right now. It's different. Now everybody needs broadband. Well guess what? Comcast is a big company, but we don't have broadband everywhere. ATT doesn't have it. Verizon doesn't have it Charter doesn't have it. Right. So you need, so now to think about that from enterprise, I'm going to go, I'll give you an example. All of our customers to fulfill a nationwide network, just for the broadband infrastructure, that's, you know, redundant. If you want to think of it that way we, we source probably 200 to 300 different providers to provide an ubiquitous network nationwide for broadband. Then we wrap a layer of the SD wan infrastructure for that, as an example, over the top of that, right? You can't do that by yourself. I mean, people try and they fail. And that's the role of a managed service provider like us is to pull all that together. Take that away. We have that expertise. >> Interviewer: I think this is a really interesting point. Let's just unpack that just for a second. Yeah. In the old days, we want to do an interconnect. You had an agreement. You did, you have your own stuff, do an interconnected connect. >> Glen: Yep. >> Now this, all this mishmash, you got to traverse multiple hops, different networks. >> Glen: That's right >> Different owners, different don't know what's on that. So you guys have to basically stitch this together, hang it together and make it work. And you guys put software on the top and make sure it's cool is that how it works? >> Glen: Yeah. Software and different technology components for the SD wan. And then we would deliver the shore and manager all that. And that's, that's where I really like what's happening in the industry, at least in terminology, which is they try, you have to try to simplify that because it's very, very complicated, but I'm going to give you the network as a service mean, I'm going to give you all the transport and you have to don't have to worry about it. I'm going to rent you the, the SD wan technology. And then I'm going to have in my gateways all these security components for a firewall as a service, zero trust network access, cloud brokerage services. So I will secure all of your data as you go to the cloud and do all of that for you. That's really what we, that's what we bring to the table. And that's what is really, really hard for enterprises to do today. Just because they can't, the expertise needed to do that is just not there. >> Interviewer: Well, what's interesting is that first you have to do it now because the reality of your business now is you don't do it. You won't have customers, but you're making it easier for them. So they don't have to think about it. - [Glen] That's right. >> But now you bring in hybrid networking hybrid cloud, they call it or multi-cloud right. It's essentially a distributed computing and essentially what you're doing, but with multiple typologies, >> Glen: that's right. >> Interviewer: I got an edge device. - [Glen] That's right. If I'm a business. - [Glen] That's right. >> That's where it could be someone working at home >> Glen: That's right. - Or it could be my retail >> Or whatever it could be. So edge is just an extension of what you guys already do. And is that right? Am I getting that right? >> Glen: Yeah that's exactly right. And, and, but the point is, is to make it economic and to make it really work for the end user. If you're a branch, you may have a, a application that's still being run via VPN, but you also need wifi internet for your customers because you want to use your mobile device. They've entered into your store and you want to be able to track that right. And push something to them. And then you've got the actual store applications could be point of sales could be back of house comparing that's going up to AWS. Azura whatever. Right. And that all has to be, it all has to come from one particular branch and someone has to be able to manage that capability. >> Interviewer: It's funny, - Its so different >> Interviewer: just as you're talking, I'm just thinking, okay. Facial recognition, high, high bandwidth requirements, >> Glen: Huge high bandwidth requirements >> Processing at the edge becomes huge. >> Glen: It does. >> So that becomes a new dynamic. >> Glen: It does. It's got to be more dynamic. It's not a static IP end point. >> Glen: Well, I'll give you another an example. Let's say it's, it seems silly, but it's so important from a business perspective, your quick service restaurant, the amount of digital sales from applications are just skyrocketing. And if you yourself, and particularly in the pandemic, you order something, or that goes up to the cloud, comes back through, goes to the point of sales. And then the, the back of house network in a particular restaurant, if that doesn't get there, because one line of you only have one internet connection and it's down, which sometimes happens, right? You lose business, you lose that customer. It's so important. So what's being pushed down to the edge is, you know, reliable broadband hybrid networks, where you have a primary wire line and a secondary wire line, maybe a tertiary wireless or whatever. And then a box, a device that can manage between those two so that you can keep that 99.9, 9% availability at your branch, just for those simple types of applications. >> Interviewer: You know Glenn, you as you're talking most people, when we talk tech, like this is mostly inside the ropes, Hey, I can get it. But most people can relate with the pandemic because they've ordered with their phone on - [Glen] Exactly right >> With the QR code. - [Glen] That's exactly right >> They see the menu - [Glen] That's right >> They get now what's happening - [Glen] That's right that their phone is now connected to the service. >> Glen: That's right >> This is not going away. The new normal. >> Glen: No, it's absolutely here. And what I've seen are there are many, many companies that already knew this and understood this pre pandemic. And they were, they had already changed their infrastructure to really fit what I was calling that network as a service in the SASE model, in different ways. Then there were a bunch that didn't, and I'm not going to name names, but you can look at those companies and you can see how they're, they're struggling terribly. But then there was this. Now there's a, a much bigger push and privatization again, see, I was sending, Hey, I asked for this before. It's not like the CIO didn't know, but management said, well, maybe it wasn't important. Now it is. And so you're seeing this actual amazing surge in business requests and requirements to go to the model that we're all talking about here, which is that SASE type of implementation high-speed broadband. That's not going away for the same reason. And you need a resilient network, right? Yes. >> Interesting. Best practice. Let's just take that advice to the, to the audience. I want to get your thoughts because people who didn't do any R and D or experimentation prior to the pandemic, didn't have cloud. Wasn't thinking about this new architecture got caught flat-footed. -Exactly. >> And they're hurting and or out of business. >> Correct. >> If people who were on the right side of that took advantage as a tailwind and they got lifts. >> That's exactly right. >> So what is the best practice? How should a business think about putting their toe in the water a little bit or jumping in and getting immersed in the new, new architecture? What advice would you give? Because people don't want to be in the wrong side of history. >> No, they don't. >> What's your guy's best practice? >> I may sound biased, but I'm really not trying to be biased. And this'll be some of the I'll speak about here later today. You have to try it. You, as the end user, the enterprise customer, to, to fulfill these types of needs, you've got to really probe your managed service providers. You've got to understand which ones, not just can give you a nice technology presentation and maybe a POC, but who's going to be there for the longterm who has the economic wherewithal to be able to give the resources needed to do what I was talking about, which is you're going to outsource your entire network to me and your sh, and a good portion of your security for the network to a service provider. that service provider has to be able to provide all that has to be able to have the financial capabilities, to be able to provide you with an operating type of model, not you have to buying equipment all the time. That service provider has to be able to have teams that can deliver all of that 200 to 300 different types of providers aggregate all that, and then be there for day two. Simple thing. Like if you know, most companies, if you're not a really large location, you can't afford to, you know, double types of routers that are connected. And if one fails you have fail over, right, most of them will have one router and they'll have, but they'll have two backup paths. Well, what happens is that router or switch, single switch fails? You need to have a meantime to repair a four hours. I mean, that's kind of basic and well do that. How do you do that? You've got to have depots around the entire country. These are the types of questions that any enterprise customers should be probing their managed service provider, right? It's not just about the technology. It's about how can you deliver this and assure this going forward. >> And agility too cause when, if, if things do change rapidly, being agile... >> Exactly >> means shifting and being flexible with your business. >> That's exactly right. And that's important. That's a really important question. And the agility comes from this financial agility, right? Like new threat, new box. I want, I want this old one. I'm going to upgrade to a different type of service. The service providers should be able to do that without me having to force you to go get some more CapEx and buy some more stuff. Cause that's number one. But the other agility is every enterprise is different. Every enterprise believes that its network is the only network in the world and they have opinions and they've tested different technologies. And you're going to have to adapt a little bit to that. And if you don't, you're not going to get out of this. >> It's funny. The old days non-disruptive operations was like a benefit, we have non-disrupt- now it's a table stakes. You can't disrupt businesses. - You can't. You can't at the branch at the remote worker. If you're on a zoom call or whatever, or you're on a teams call, we've all been there. We're still doing it. If it breaks in the middle of a presentation to a customer that's problem. >> Glenn thanks for coming on the cube with great insight. >> Oh great. This was fun. >> Are you exciting and plays golf? You're going to get out there on the range? >> I played, I played golf a lot when I was younger, but I haven't. And so I have a few other things I do, but I guess I'm going to have to learn now that we're also a sponsor of PGA, so yeah, for sure. >> Great. Well, great to have you on - All right thank you and great talk. Thanks for coming on and sharing your insight. >> This was great. I appreciate okay. >> Keep coverage here. Napa valley with Fortinet's Cybersecurity Summit as part of their PGA tour event, that's happening this weekend. I'm John for the Cube. Thanks for watching.

>> Okay. We're here with Vasanth Kumar who's the Principal Solutions Architect for MongoDB. Vasanth, welcome to "theCube." >> Thanks Dave. >> Hey, listen, I feel like you were born to be an architect in technology. I mean, you've worked for big SIs, you've worked with many customers, you have experience in financial services and banking. Tell us, the audience, a little bit more about yourself, and what you're up to these days. >> Yeah. Hi, thanks for the for inviting me for this discussion. I'm based out of Bangalore, India, having around 18 years experience in IT industry, building enterprise products for different domains, verticals, finance built and enterprise banking applications, IOT platforms, digital experience solutions. Now being with MongoDB nearly two years, been working in a partner team as a principal solutions architect, especially working with ISBs to build the best practices of handling the data and embed the right database as part of their product. I also worked with technology partners to integrate the compatible technology compliance with MongoDB. And also worked with the private cloud providers to provide a database as a service. >> Got it. So, you know, I have to Vasanth, I think Mongo, you kind of nailed it. They were early on with the trends of managing unstructured data, making it really simple. There was always a developer appeal, which has lasted and then doing so with an architecture that scales out, and back in the early days when Mongo was founded, I remember those days, I mean, digital transformation, wasn't a thing, it wasn't a buzz word, but it just so happens that Mongo's approach, it dovetails very nicely with a digital business. So I wonder if you could talk about that, talk about the fit and how MongoDB thinks about accelerating digital transformation and why you're different from like a traditional RDBMS. >> Sure, exactly, yeah. You had a right understanding, let me elaborate it. So we all know that the customer expectation changes day by day, because of the business agility functionality changes, how they want to experience the applications, or in apps that changes okay. And obviously this yields to the agility of the information which transforms between the multiple systems or layers. And to achieve this, obviously the way of architecting or developing the product as completely a different shift, might be moving from the monolith to microservices or event-based architecture and so on. And obviously the database has to be opt for these environment to adopt these changes, to adopt the scale of load and the other thing. Okay. And also like we see that the common, the protocol for the information exchange is JSON, and something like you, you adopt it. The database adopts it natively to that is a perfect fit. Okay. So that's where the MongoDB fits perfectly for billing or transforming the modern applications, because it's a general purpose database which accepts the JSON as a payload and stores it in a BSON format. You don't need to be, suppose like to develop any particular application or to transfer an existing application, typically they see the what is the effort required and how much, what is the cost involved in it, and how quickly I can do that. That's main important thing without disturbing the functionality here where, since it is a multimodal database in a JSON format, you don't easily build an application. Okay? Don't need a lot of transformation in case of an RDBMS, you get the JSON payload, you transform into a tabular structure or a different format, and then probably you build an ORM layer and then map it and save it. There are lot of work involved in it. There are a lot of components need to be written in between. But in case of MongoDB, what they can do is you get the information from the multiple sources. And as is, you can put it in a DB based on where, or you can transform it based on the access patterns. And then you can store it quickly. >> Dave: Got it. And I tell Dave, because today you haven't context data, which has a selected set of information. Probably tomorrow the particular customer has more information to put it. So how do you capture that? In case of an RDBMS, you need to change the schema. Once you scheme change the schema, your application breaks down. But here it magically adopts it. Like you pass the extra information, it's open for extension. It adopts it easily. You don't need to redeploy or change the schema or do something like that. >> Right. That's the genius of Mongo. And then of course, you know, in the early days people say, oh, you know, Mongo, it won't scale. And then of course we, through the cloud. And I follow very closely Atlas. I look at the numbers every quarter. I mean, overall cloud adoption is increasing like crazy, you know, our Wiki Bon analyst team. We got the big four cloud vendors just in IAS growing beyond a 115 billion this year. That's 35% on top of, you know, 80-90 billion last year. So talk more about how MongoDB fits with the cloud and how it helps with the whole migration story. 'Cause you're killing it in that space. >> Yeah. Sure. Just to add one more point on the previous question. So for continuously, for past four to five years, we have been the number one in the wanted database. >> Dave: Right Okay. That that's how like the popularity is getting done. That's how the adoption has happened. >> Dave: Right. >> I'm coming back to your question- >> Yeah let's talk about the cloud and database as a service, you guys actually have packaged that very nicely I have to say. >> Yeah. So we have spent lot of effort and time in developing Atlas, our managed database as a service, which typically gives the customer the way of just concentrating on their application rather than maintaining and managing the whole set of database or how to scale infrastructure. All those things on work is taken care. You don't need to be an expert of DB, like when you are using an Atlas. So we provide the managed database in three major cloud providers, AWS, GCP, and Azure, and also it's a purely a multicloud, you know, like you can have a primary in AWS and you have the replicated nodes in GCP or Azure. It's a purely multicloud. So that like, you don't have a cloud blocking. You feel that, okay, your business is, I mean, if this is the right for your business you are choosing the model, you think that I need to move to GCP. You don't need to bother, you easily migrate this to GCP. Okay. No vendor lock in, no cloud lock in this particular- >> So Vasanth, maybe you could talk a little bit more about Atlas and some of the differentiable features and things that you can do with Atlas that maybe people don't know about. >> Yeah, sure Dave like, Atlas is not just a manage database as a service, you know, like it's a complete data platform and it provides many features. Like for example, you build an application and probably down the line of three years, the data which you captured three years back might be an old data. Like how do you do it? Like there's no need for you to manually purge or do thing. Like we do have an online archival where you configure the data. So that like the data, which is older than two years, just purge it. So automatically this is taken care. So that like you have hot data kept in Atlas cluster and the cold data moved up to an ARKit. And also like we have a data lake where you can run a federated queries . For example, you've done an archival, but what if people want to access the data? So with data lake, what it can do is, on a single connection, you can fire a- you can run a federated queries both on the active and the archival data. That's the beauty, like you archive the data, but still you can able to query it. And we do also have a charts where like, you can build in visualization on top of the data, what you have captured. You can build in graphs or you can build in graphs and also embed these graphs as part of your application, or you can collaborate to the customers, to the CXOs and other theme. >> Dave: Got it. >> It's a complete data platform. >> Okay. Well, speaking of data platform, let's talk about Io-Tahoe's data RPA platform, and coupling that with Mongo DB. So maybe you could help us understand how you're helping with process automation, which is a very hot topic and just this whole notion of a modern application development. >> Sure. See, the process automation is more with respect to the data and how you manage this data and what to derive and build a business process on top of it. I see there are two parts into it. Like one is the source of data. How do you identify, how do you discover the data? How do you enrich the context or transform it, give a business context to it. And then you build a business rules or act on it, and then you store the data or you derive the insights or enrich it and store it into DB. The first part is completely taken by Io-Tahoe, where you can tag the data for the multiple data sources. For example, if we take an customer 360 view, you can grab the data from multiple data sources using Io-Tahoe and you discover this data, you can tag it, you can label it and you build a view of the complete customer context, and use a realm web book and then the data is ingested back to Mongo. So that's all like more sort of like server-less fashion. You can build this particular customer 360 view for example. And just to talk about the realm I spoke, right? The realm web book, realm is a backend APA that you can create on top of the data on Mongo cluster, which is available in addclass. Okay. Then once you run, the APS are ready. Data as a service, you build it as a data as a service, and you fully secure APIs, which are available. These APS can be integrated within a mobile app or an web application to build in a built in modern application. But what left out is like, just build a UI artifacts and integrate these APIs. >> Yeah, I mean we live in this API economy companies. People throw that out as sort of a buzz phrase, but Mongo lives that. I mean, that's why developers really like the Mongo. So what's your take on DevOps? Maybe you could talk a little bit about, you know, your perspective there, how you help Devs and data engineers build faster pipelines. >> Yeah, sure. Like, okay, this is the most favorite topic. Like, no, and it's a buzzword along, like all the DevOps moving out from the traditional deployment, what I learned online. So like we do support like the deployment automation in multiple ways okay, and also provide the diagnostic under the hood. We have two options in Mongo DB. One is an enterprise option, which is more on the on-prem's version. And Atlas is more with respect to the cloud one manage database service. Okay. In case of an enterprise advanced, like we do have an Ops manager and the Kubernetes operator, like a Ops manager will manage all sort of deployment automation. Upgrades, provides your diagnostics, both with respect to the hardwares, and also with respect to the MongoDB gives you a profiling, slow running queries and what you can get a context of what's working on the data using that. I'm using an enterprise operator. You can integrate with existing Kubernetes cluster, either in a different namespace on an existing namespace. And orchestrate the deployment. And in case of Atlas, we do have an Atlas-Kubernetes operator, which helps you to integrate your Kubernetes operator. And you don't need to leave your Kubernetes. And also we have worked with the cloud providers. For example, we have we haven't cloud formation templates where you can just in one click, you can just roll out an Atlas cluster with a complete platform. So that's one, like we are continuously working, evolving on the DevOps site to roll out the might be a helm chart, or we do have an operator, which has a standard (indistinct) for different types of deployments. >> You know, some really important themes here. Obviously, anytime you talk about Mongo, simplicity comes in, automation, you know, that big, big push that Io-Tahoe was making. What you said about data context was interesting because a lot of data systems, organizations, they lack context and context is very important. So auto classification and things like that. And the other thing you said about federated queries I think fits very well into the trend toward decentralized data architecture. So very important there. And of course, hybridisity. I call it hybridisity. On-prem, cloud, abstracting that complexity away and allowing people to really focus on their digital transformations. I tell ya, Vasanth, it's great stuff. It's always a pleasure chatting with Io-Tahoe partners, and really getting into the tech with folks like yourself. So thanks so much for coming on theCube. >> Thanks. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for having a nice discussion with you. >> Okay. Stay right there. We've got one more quick session that you don't want to miss.

(upbeat music) >> From around the globe, it's theCUBE. With digital coverage of Postgres Vision 2021 brought to you by EDB. >> Well, good day, everybody. John Walls here on theCUBE. We continue our coverage here at Postgres Vision in 2021. Talking today with Andy Harris, who is the Chief Technology Officer at Osirium, a leader in the Privileged Access Management Space, and Andy, good day to you. Thanks for joining us here on theCUBE. >> Good morning to you and good afternoon, yes. >> That's right. Joining us from overseas over in England, we're on this side of the big pond, but nonetheless, we're joined by the power of Zoom. So again, thanks for the time. Andy, for those who aren't familiar who are watching about Osirium, share a little bit about your various service levels of what you provide, the kind of solutions you provide, and how you've achieved a great success in this space. >> Okay. I know these things, mine will be boring. So I'll just put a little slide up now, which is the minimum I think I can get away with which is that we're all about managing privilege. So that's privileged at the endpoint, Privileged Access Management, and Privileged Process Automation. So wherever a CIS admin has to do something on a machine that needs privilege, we like to be involved. Obviously, we like to be able to delegate all the way down to the business functions with Privileged Process Automation and with the EDB or the BDR part of that functionality in EDB that really fits in to our Privileged Access Management. So what I'll do just to take you away from our product. So I'll just quickly show you a slide of the architecture, which is as simple as we have these nodes. If you like the running ADB BDR and they can perform log-ins to a target device using privileged credentials, which we control when we might be really long up to about 128 characters. >> So Andy, if you would, I think you had put together a little show and tell you a demonstration for how when these systems are perhaps under siege if you will. That there are ways in which obviously you've developed to counter this and to be able to continue secure communications, which in the privilege assets world as you know is paramount. >> Yes, indeed. So I'll show you another slide, which gives you a kind of a overview of everything that's going on and you're going to see a little demonstration of two nodes here that has the BDL technology on and they can make these logins, and we have these characters, Bob and Allison. I've just noticed how it marks in department turn Alice to Allison. they should really be Alice because you get Bob, Alice, Carol, Dave, which are the standard encryption users. And what we're going to do is we're going to demonstrate that you can have breaks in the network. So I'm just sharing the network breaks slide. I'm showing the second network break slide. And then we have this function that we've built which we're going to demonstrate for you today, which is called evil beatings. And what it does is whilst there is a politician in the network, we are going to refresh many thousands of times the credentials on the target device. And then we're going to heal the break in the network and then prove that everything is still working. So right now, I'm going to zoom over to my live connection, terminal connections to the machine. And I'm going to run this command here, which is Python EV3. And I'm going to put a hundred cycles in it which is going to do around about 10,000 password refreshes. Okay. And I'm then going to go over to Chrome, and I should have a system here waiting for me. And in this system, you'll see that I've got the device demo and I've got this come online, SSH. And if I click on this I've got a live connection to this machine. Even whilst I have a huge number of queued up and I'll just show you the queued out connections through the admin interface. The system is working extremely hard at the moment. And in fact, if I show you this slide here, you can see that I have all of these queued credential resets and that is giving our system an awful lot of grief. Yeah. I can go back to the device connection and it is all here still top. Why not? And as you can see, it is all working perfectly. And if I was a user of EDB, I think this has to be one of the demonstrations I'd be interested in because it's one of the first things that we did when we dropped that functionality into our products. We wanted to know how well it would work under extreme conditions because you don't think of extreme conditions as normal working, but whenever you have 10 nodes in different countries, there will always be a network break somewhere and someone will always need to be refreshing passwords a ridiculous rates of knots. So Andy let's talk about this kind of the notion that you're providing here, this about accountability and visibility, audit-ability, all these insights that you're providing through this kind of demonstration you've given us how critical is that today, especially when we know there are so many possible intrusions and so many opportunities with legacy systems and new apps and all of this. I mean talking about those three pillars, if you will, the importance of that and what we just saw in terms of providing that peace of mind that everybody wants in their system. >> That's a cracking question. I'm going to enjoy that question. Legacy systems, that's a really good question. If you, we have NHS, which is our national health service and we have hospitals and you have hospitals every country has hospitals. And the equipment that they use like the MRI scanners, the electro-microscope, some of the blood analysis machines, the systems in those costs multiple Gillions of dollars or should use dollars euros, dollars, pounds and the operating systems running those systems, the lifetime of that piece of equipment is much much longer than the lifetime of an operating system. So we glibly throw around this idea of legacy systems and to a hospital that's a system that's a mere five years old and has got to be delivering for another 15 years. But in reality, all of this stuff gets, acquires vulnerabilities because our adversaries the people that want to do organizations bad things ransomware and all the rest of it they are spending all that time learning about the vulnerabilities of old systems. So the beauty of what we do is being able to take those old legacy systems and put a zero trust safety shell around them, and then use extremely long credentials which can't be cracked. And then we make sure that those credentials don't go anywhere near any workstations. But what they do do, is they're inside that ADB database encrypted with a master encryption key, and they make that jump just inside the zero trust boundary so that Bob and Alice outside can get administration connections inside for them to work. So what we're doing is providing safety for those legacy systems. We are also providing an environment for old apps to run in as well. So we have something called a map server which I didn't think you'd asked us that question. I'd have to find you some slides or presentations, which we want to do. We have a map server, which is effectively a very protected window server, and you can put your old applications on them and you can let them age gracefully and carry on running. Dot net 3.5 and all of those old things. And we can map your connection into the older application and then map those connections out. But in terms of the other aspects of it is the hospital stay open 24 hours a day banks run 24 hours a day and they need to be managed from anywhere. We're in a global pandemic, people are working from home. That means that people are working from laptops and all sorts of things that haven't been provisioned by centrality and could all have all sorts of threats and problems to them. And being able to access any time is really important. And because we are changing the credentials on these machines on a regular basis, you cannot lose one. It's absolutely critical. You cannot go around losing Windows active directory domain credentials it just can't be done. And if you have a situation where you've just updated a password and you've had a failure one of those 10 nodes has the correct set of credentials. And when the system heals, you have to work out which one of the 10 it is and the one that did it last must be the one that updates all the other 10 nodes. And I think the important thing is as Osirium we have the responsibility for doing the updates and we have the responsibility for tracking all those things. But we hand the responsibility of making sure that all the other 10 nodes are up to date which just drop it into bi-directional replication and it just happens. And you've seen it happen. I mean, might be just for the fun of it, We'll go back to that demonstration Chrome, and you can see we're still connected to that machine. That's all still running fine but we could go off to our management thing, refresh it and you see that everything there is successful. I can go to a second machine and I can make a second connection to that device. Yet, in the meantime that password has been changed, Oh, I mean, I wouldn't like to tell you how many times it's been changed. I need to be on a slightly different device. I was going to do a reveal password for you, I'll make another connection but the passwords will be typically, do a top on that just to create some more load. But the passwords will typically be... I'll come back to me. They'll typically be 128 characters long. >> Andy, if I could, I mean, 'cause I think you're really showing this very complex set of challenges that you have these days, right? In terms of providing access to multiple devices across, in multiple networking challenges, when you talk to your prospective clients about the kind of how this security perimeters changed, it's very different now than it was four or five years ago. What are the key points that you want them to take away from your discussion about how they have to think about security and access especially in this day and age when we've even seen here in the States. Some very serious intrusions that I think certainly get everybody's attention. >> That's a great question again. They're all... The way that I would answer that question would definitely depend on the continent that I was talking to. But my favorite answer will be a European answer, so I'll give you a European answer. One of the things that you're doing when you come along and provide Privileged Access Management to a traditional IT team, is your taking away the sysadmins right now, before privilege access, they will know the passwords. They will be keeping the passwords in a password vault or something like this. So they own the passwords, they own the credentials. And when you come along with a product like privilege access management you're taking over management of those credentials and you're protecting those systems from a whole wide range of threats. And one of those threats is from the system administrators themselves. And they understand that. So what I would say, it's an interesting question. 'Cause I'm like, I'm thinking I've got two ways of answering I can answer as if I'm talking to management or as if I'm talking to the people who are actually going to use the products and I feel more aligned with the, I feel more aligned with the actual users. >> Yeah, I think let's just, we'll focus on that and I'll let you know, we just have a moment or two left. So if you could maybe boil it down for me a little bit. >> Boiling it down, I would say now look here CIS admins. It's really important that you get your job done but you need to understand that those privileged accounts that you're using on those systems are absolute gold dust if they get into the hands of your adversaries and you need protections income away from those adversaries, but we trust you and we are going to get you the access to your machines as fast as possible. So we're a little bit like a nightclub bouncer but we're like the Heineken of nightclub bounces. When you arrive, we know it's you and we're going to get you to your favorite machine logged on as domain admin, as fast as possible. And while you're there, we're going to cut that session recording of you. And just keep you safe and on the right side. >> All right, I'm going to enjoy my night in the nightclub. Now I can sleep easy tonight knowing that Andy Harris and Osirium are on the case. Thanks, Andy. Andy Harris speaking with us. So the Chief Technology Officer from Osirium as part of our Postgres vision, 2021, coverage here on theCUBE. (upbeat music) >> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto, in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCUBE conversation.

>> Good morning, good afternoon and good evening wherever you are. My name is Robyn Bergeron and I'm very, very, very, truly excited to welcome all of you to this year's Ansible Fest. Whether you're joining us for the first time or if you've attended in the past. It's wonderful to know that you're all out there watching from the office in your home, maybe the makeshift office in your closet or dining room, or maybe even your actual office. Even though I've attended many Ansible Fest in the fast I continue to find to be one of the most educational and interesting events I've ever been to. I hope you do as well. One of the most exciting things about Ansible Fest for me this year is our theme, which can you shared in her opening remarks, automate to connect. As a community architect and as a manager of the Ansible community team. The solitating connections enable our community is most important thing we do every day. And scaling what we can all accomplish together is becoming credibly important, as Ansible become one of the most active open source projects in the world. There's no better example of understanding the growth and the scale of the Ansible community than seeing just how many of you were, we were able to connect with today at our very first virtual Ansible Fest with tens of thousands of folks attending over the course of our time together and even more on their own schedules. We're now actually able to connect with more members of our community than we ever have before. And this statement we are all the community continues to be as true as ever for Ansible. I truly believe that every connection counts I really believe that each and every one of us has the ability to participate in the Ansible community in countless ways, whether it's through code, whether it's through sharing with your friends or coworkers or helping others all over the world. And no matter how big we becomes a community we want to make sure that those connections and your sense of being part of this community to be alive and is full of potential as it always has been. And we want that because that very potential and taking advantage of all of those connections and opportunities is what enables innovation to happen. And we see that innovation happening in Ansible every single day. We all know that open source communities and produce some of the most innovative and most popular software that exists today. But being a community doesn't just come simply by the virtue of being open source, right? And neither does innovation growing the community requires frameworks and enable these connections to exist right between developers and users code and tools. And when we are able to combine those frameworks with opportunities and ideas, that's where innovation can actually flourish and that's the place where the benefits of opensource truly shine. And in Ansible from the very beginning, we strive to ensure that all of those frameworks and ingredients versus such a successful project were present. We made it easy to learn and get started with. We made sure it was at least minimally useful and then it could grow over time. We built the tool itself with a modular plugin architecture that would make it easy to contribute to. In turn, all of those contributions enabled Ansible to become even more useful, connecting audit, connecting and automating even more technologies which then made it useful to even more people. And this, this is really open source innovation at its finest, right? Thousands of users and contributors working together developing feedback loops all going to build software that everybody loves. But doing it well and having some good fortune and timing along the way has also meant that we've gotten fairly large and incredibly active as a community. What this level of scale and more relatable terms that we probably understand since we've all been on video call lately, imagine that you've made something and you would like to get feedback about the thing that you've made. So you invite a hundred people to your video call and you want all of them to provide feedback. Cause you want that feedback, You need the feedback cause you want to act on the feedback. Are you actually going to get that feedback in the phone call? Or the folks that you invited truly feel like they were heard or will you spend the whole call saying I'm sorry, are you trying to talk? Are you, are you on mute? Maybe? Could you make yourself? No, no, not you. The other person you can, you, can you try again? Thanks, for us in Ansible we want to make sure that every voice counts, every contribution matters. Every single bug reported, every improvement and usability, every question answered every word for me Emoji really does count, over its history Ansible had more than 13,000 individual voices speak at least once. And many of those individuals have done so hundreds and some even thousands of times. And for every single connection individual makes multiple automated processes and communications occur fanning out to even more members of our community. And for end users, while we know that adding new ways to automate with Ansible increases its usefulness we've heard that particular folks get more experienced that things like being more selective and flexible in what they choose rather than having all 6,800 modules included for them. The collection concept is the innovative answer to improving our country contributor process and the end user experience and ensuring they'll both scale smarter ways as we move into the future. And it's really more the result of more than a year of work. In a nutshell, collections are a new way to make use of the content that you connect to Ansible modules even roles, and do soar in more dynamic and flexible ways. There's a couple of things that really excited me about collections. So number one, it's easier to contribute to right? collections can live in their own individual repositories which for the Ansible community makes it a lot easier for folks to find and connect with the content that they care about and connect with the users and contributors to that more human scaled community. The second thing, is for users, it's not easier to easier than ever to use Ansible in all the ways that you want to or need to. Since collections can be packaged and made available on their own schedules, you can update them or upgrade them as frequently or as infrequently as you'd like or you can upgrade a more minimal Ansible installation without updating your collection. Now, I know what you're all saying. What do we want? Collections. When do we want it? yesterday. Woo. Well, behold I am super proud to re announce the release of Ansible to Dutch and which arrives in late September. And yes, the collection curated by the Ansible community for inclusion in Ansible are into 2.10. The amazing thing about this release is really the amount of coordination amongst so many points of connection, right? We required changes to our build and release processes extraordinary amounts of work being done under the hood. And it was a significant part of our feedback loop as well. We finished the work on the collections concept but the important thing about two 10 is this as an upstream community that continually develops new technologies. You know, we really see collections as a significant part of the future of Ansible. So getting early feedback on your experiences and using collections is incredibly important to our community. Two 10 is the first release where we're actually able to start broadly gathering an information. And as a part of the process we can hear your feedback a lot better as well now. Now, we all know that this year has been interesting for all of us, right here, I have the 2020 dumpster fire. Yes, it's been the best. We've all had to adapt and change in lots of ways right? At home, at work in public and at school and in the communities that we love. I always like to remind people that contributing code is not the only way to contribute or participate in the community. Our aunts will meet up communities that have been growing in size and membership over the past number of years. We now have more than 260 groups all over the world still looking for that one in Antarctica. Self organizing and creating Ansible content to share in their local communities. This is really an aspect of the Ansible community that I've always loved that so many humans recognize how sharing information in their own local areas collaborating together to teach each other new things helps to improve their own communities for the better. But this year they've also reminded me that humans are incredibly resilient right? We bounce back from life altering situations. We bounce back from, you know, New store, we adapt to new situations and we always form new connections and points of collaboration along the way. A ton of these groups still wanting to share all of their experiences and teach each other together pivoted their meetup groups in a variety of ways. Since March, there've been more than 54 virtual Ansible meetups all over the world. And all those organizers are starting to see the patterns that connect local and not so local meetup members in the best ways whether that's by common language, time zone country rather than a city they're all coming together adapting as best as they can given the year. But for me personally one of the most important lessons that I draw from is a community person over and over again, is that connecting contributors to opportunities isn't necessarily about deciding what I think should be available as opportunities. It's about making that the short doors open for anyone to create those connections and opportunities that nobody had yet started. This year in Ansible, we've seen this in action with the creation of a diversity and inclusion working group which meets regularly to explore all the ways in which we can improve and do outreach and be more inclusive. And the group was also key in our projects work to improve the inclusiveness of our code and language itself, which began many months ago. I can honestly say that all of these activities initiated by all the passionate folks in the Ansible community are things that make me so proud to call Ansible my home. And it really does make me proud to see how much we're maturing as a community. In my role, I've had the privilege of you know, being able to meet and chat with Ansible users all over the world. Sometimes the person, sometimes on the internet one of the discussions I had a few years ago was with someone who was a systems administrator which was a job that I had numerous years ago. So lots of empathy. It was the nineties for me, but anyway, chatted with him and he told me how much he loves Ansible how's finally a tool that he could get started with and be productive with and you know, felt good about it very quickly, he was able to start solving problems. And he told me about all the things that he had accomplished and you know, he'd been able to change things you know, for the better for himself at work for his coworkers and you know, they're actually finally getting ahead. I asked how long they've been using Ansible. And he said, well, you know, it's been about a year but then he also said this, you know, a year ago I wasn't really sure that I could go on at my job. Like, you know, there was so much to do I was, you know, fight fighting fires. I was on call constantly, you know, nothing ever ended I was deep underwater and I was missing out on my family and their lives, you know, all of their milestones. And he said, this year I actually got to go to my daughter's fifth birthday which he had missed her fourth birthday the year before because he was at work fighting fires and he said, you know, Ansible has changed my life I can see my kids again, like on the weekends and you know like a normal person should and you know, hearing stories like that, that's stuff that makes me very proud you know, and humbled to be in this community. And one of the main reasons why I go to work every single day and feel great about what I do and those stories, aren't really all that uncommon it's really our shared love of automation. Our, all of our shared embrace of this universal language and tool that we call Ansible that has helped so many people to improve their personal lives their work lives, their careers you know, the world they're in the world for all of us. And it really truly does connect us in so many amazing ways. It's not just shared code, it's a shared passion and that kind of connection is something that can change our own worlds or the world for all of us. If you're attending Ansible festival live this week I hope you'll take time to connect with others in the event platform to meet all of the other automation users in your community our experts ask questions or share your own experiences. And I hope to bump into you too on the internet and hear your stories about your own connections to automation and the Ansible community. Thank you so much and I hope you enjoy the event.

(upbeat instrumental music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome to another great CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto, our CUBE Studio, I'm John Furrier. We've got a great conversation with a friend Saar Gillai CUBE alumni. Saar is an executive, coaching startups, investing, was in Silicon Valley, sees a lot of the landscape, knows networking, knows cloud. Saar, great to see you. Thanks very much. >> It's great to be here again as always. >> Yeah, love having you come in and be an analyst for us and help us squint through some of the big mega trends that we're following. As you know, we believe that cloud is here to stay. And I'm always chirping, certainly online about how Amazon clearly way ahead of Microsoft Google has a great network, and you and I we going to to talk more about that. But the game is just getting started and compute is phase one of the game of cloud. >> Saar: Correct. >> Completely been commoditized it's serverless, a lot of great things are helping developers. This next wave of networking is going to be the next battleground of innovation and certainly transformation. This is your wheelhouse, you've seen this movie, from old school networking to telcos to now, we're in the middle of it. What's your take on networking? Because we're going to be at Cisco Live Barcelona next week. But you have a good view into the overall landscape. Tell us what are you seeing? >> Sure, no, I mean, I think you said it right. I mean, basically if you look at what happened in computing in the last decade plus or minus in terms of the the advent of the public cloud and the cloud model and automation, even if you're using private cloud, you know, that is all going to, what happened last 10 years there is going to happen in networking in the next 10 years. Because, you know, there's no reason why these things aren't going to happen. The cloud has changed the model people work, people expect to be as a service. More and more of the network traffic is moving from the enterprise into the cloud, or to reach the cloud and that's changing how important is in a network, it's changing how the network's going to operate. >> The cloud certainly has been game changing. And I want to get your thoughts on this. You call it, and before we came on camera I'll make sure we get this out, the cloudification of networking. >> Saar: Correct. >> And this is a term that you coined, what is that mean? Tell us what is cloudification of networking? >> Sure well there are different elements to it, right. But, you know, I think if you look, I think the first thing that's important is to look at it from the user perspective, like what does it mean from a user, right? So if you look at the classic network, you know, 10 years ago most of your traffic is in your campus and in your own data center. And you're using standard Cisco switches, you know, you've got, you know, some hierarchical system you've got your data center, you're using six K's in there, set of nexuses whatever, you've got your end switches some WiFi, that's what the world looks like, that's where everything goes. And you may have someone WAN with MPLS and maybe things like that. But, you know, that's not a big use or some internet use, the internet, but that's not your mission-critical network. If you now fast forward to 2020. I can't even say that >> It's like you've been 10 years. >> 2020 is like, you know, God, all of a sudden, from user perspective, where are you getting your packets from, right? Most of your stuff in a public cloud. So your traffic, whether you're in enterprise or at home, is typically going toward the cloud. The cloud itself has its own very complicated network of 100 gig up to even getting going to 400 gig at some point connections, massive, massive data centers, fully automated, right? In the campus is all Wi-Fi, but again most of the traffic is back and forth to the cloud. So if you look at the network architecture the network architecture you have, the cloud now has completely changed the network architecture from being mostly internal to all being from you to the public cloud. And the public cloud itself now has become such a super compute system, that's like a massive computer. And of course massive computer has massive networking. Now when you think about cloud, so that's from a user perspective. Now let's talk about what this actually means. So first of all, you know, when you think about the cloud, okay, what has enabled the cloud? I mean, the cloud there's nothing special about the cloud. It's a bunch of CPUs and coordinate jobs, okay, but it can happen fast. Why can it happen fast? 'Cause it's automated, right? It's all automated it's all software, right? It's CICD develop, deploy, boom, boom, boom, right? There's nothing you're doing there that you couldn't do 20 years ago it just would take a year instead of a day because nothing was automated, okay. Now you look at networking right? That means that everything is going to be automated and software-centric. So, you know, if you look at the way the network is today, classically, right, it's not really automated. Yes, people have done some scripting and so forth, but it's not an automated dynamic environment that is software-centric. So if you look at, for example, the data center that people are building, if you look at the big public cloud guys have deployed, right, they have deployed a very automated system. You look it and say, "Well how many SIS admins "there are per how many nodes right?" And the ratio is in these public clouds are things that you've never seen in enterprise. So you're seeing the data centers becoming these very cloud-centric networks. And then you're seeing the whole traffic pattern change, where you're mission-critical network now is from where you are to the public cloud over the WAN. And this is what's driving, you know, the evolution of SD-WAN. >> So essentially WAN used to be old school, you had your local area network you mentioned the data center and PCs all connected, hubs and printers. And then you go out over the wide area network to something else, another building another data center maybe third party cloud and and other storage. Now you're saying it's all, essentially, going to the cloud. So WAN is the new LAN then. >> And what happens also is that you quickly get on one of these big networks. So you, you know, you think about, okay, what does the LAN look like, right? Historically the WAN was a bunch of links between data centers, you know, you had leased lines you could go from, you know, you had like every enterprise had I don't know 20, 30 data centers worldwide and then be linked in the WAN. Now what you do is you get on the first connection into an Amazon or Google or Microsoft network and then you're in their network. And so these guys have massive networks. Like, if you ask me, "Who's got the biggest "most impressive WAN? It's Google. They built it for themselves, right. If you put a-- >> So you're saying Google's the best network. of all the clouds? >> Yes, and it's not necessarily long, they don't have it long term, but Google has always been crazy about performance, right. They're crazy about performance because that, you know, it's about how fast can you get a search result and so on-- >> And they had (chuckles), that's money, speed is money to Google, right. >> Speed is money to Google and so Google have, from day one, looked at ways to optimize their network, their internal network, and the Google Cloud gets the benefit of that, right. They are crazy about performance. So they have, Microsoft is getting better, they're working a lot on it. And Amazon I think is now, Amazon is very good inside their network. So they built a lot of, they've been very focused on how fast their internal, like, their data center between the servers and so on. They did Annapurna and they did all kinds of optimizations there, which have actually led the industry. But when you go into the WAN, that hasn't been a big focus for Amazon to date. >> And Google's got great security too they've have lot of security. >> So, you know, from a inside a data center perspective I would say that Amazon is top. Once you start talking about the WAN connection, Google is the best. >> All right, so I'm trying to pull this together. So the cloudification of networking means, if I hear you correctly is, what the LAN used to mean with the data center. You had a data center and you had LANs there was a campus or whatever, is now the cloud. The cloud is now the new data center, and that's the WAN is now the new LAN? >> Correct, exactly correct. The data center is the cloud, the LAN is the WAN, yep. >> So, okay, I get that. By the way I agree with that, I think there's going to be a massive disruption-- >> And again there's a long tail. So you can easily say to me, "No, well look, look at all these LAN's." Sure my future is here, it's not evenly distributed, okay. There's a long tail, nothing's disappearing, but today-- >> How many NICs are in the PCs on the desk these days? Probably not a lot of PCs and no, NICs only Wi-Fi. >> It's Wi-Fi and also, look, there's the question you have to ask is, how many data centers does the average enterprise have? How many new data centers have been commissioned? You know, when I was at HP a decade ago whatever, right? We had data centers up the wazoo, that's where everything was, right. Nobody commission's data centers now. The only people buying data centers are cloud guys. >> Yeah, and we'll get to Equinix comp share I want to get to the Outpost with Amazon, 'cause I think that hybrid edge is an interesting trend that will come into the whole network edge thing. But let's stay on this WAN thing because if you're saying, and I'm agreeing with you, that what the LAN was to the data center you have WAN to the cloud. >> Saar: Correct. >> So if the cloud disrupts and creates an innovative enabling opportunity for startups and the clouds to create new value, it's going to be there. So with that being said, if you believe that, what happens to the old SD-WAN markets because the old SD-WAN was a riverbed was a box you connected one thing to another, in other words-- >> So again, first of all on paper it's a revolution, in the market it's an evolution (laughs). And so, you know, SD-WAN itself has been moving in different directions, you know, it started off with just, okay, we do choices. Now, it's more about WAN and you still have the telcos who are offering services with boxes in front of them. And that's not a bad businesses, it's growing. But, over time, the question you want to have to ask is, if the Amazon or the Google or whatever network becomes bigger and bigger and bigger, how many hops do I need before I just get on their cloud, and then I'm just under cloud and they have a massive internal network? >> I love the expression it's not your grandfather's blank, has always been am expression. So it's not your grandfather's SD-WAN would mean, like, if you look at, like, all the incumbent players you got Cisco even with VMware, they all SD-WAN players. But SD-WAN's different now. So what does SD-WAN look like because you have startups coming out, you have security companies, I'm covering the news on security companies that are becoming SD-WAN. >> Because the firewall, the firewall and your Wanax is becoming the same thing. So if you're a Palo Alto, if you're a firewall company, or if you're an SD-WAN company's security and if your firewall company, right, you need to have SD-WAN, it's becoming the same thing. The firewall used to be the entry point into your network. And now it's SD-WAN, because that's like a distributed firewall, right, that's your perimeter. And so now the difference what's happening in SD-WAN is, you know, in the early days of SD-WAN it was about choice like you basically said, okay, "I can put my slow traffic "or my less important traffic on standard internet "and I can put my important traffic "on my expensive MPLS links, right?" Problem is MPLS is not very dynamic, and people want a lot more capabilities. And so now it's much more intelligent where you have various players saying, "No, I can give you a faster link" not over, like, Teridion the company I used to work for did that, as well as other companies, as well, and so now it's becoming a lot more sophisticated in that. It's like, okay, give me the traffic and I'll figure out how to get it across. And a lot of people are saying you don't even need MPLS anymore. But the thing that's important to understand about the SD-WAN is-- >> That was locked down traffic routes that was essentially application workloads that were earmarked to be high priority or value. Now you have dynamic-- >> Now it's dynamic, but I think the important thing that, the question that you need to ask yourself all the time is. What is the goal? Why does SD-WAN exist? >> John: That's my question. >> So SD-WAN, so why does WAN exist, right? So WAN exist because you want to connect to resources that are further than the LAN right? SD-WAN exists because the existing connections were either too expensive or too inflexible. So we figured out a software way to do that, which is better. But, if all you're trying to do is get to the cloud resources, and the cloud is expanding it's going to eventually push on SD-WAN. >> John: So I've got to ask you, why is there been a renaissance in SD-WAN, what's the reach? >> I don't think there's been a renaissance I think that-- >> John: It's kind of seems to be growing. >> But, it's not a renaissance, it's been growing I don't think it ever stopped. I mean, there was there software-defined networking, which was sort of all talk-- >> Why is SD-WAN exploding in popularity? >> It's exploding because of the cloud. Because what happens is, if you're an enterprise all your traffic now is going to the cloud, and you need a dynamic WAN to support that. MPLS isn't going to cut it anymore for you right? It's not dynamic, it's not flexible. Even if it's not expensive, it's too complicated and internationally too expensive. So if you have like offices all over the world and all they want to do is access your cloud your Salesforce and so forth. It doesn't work very well. It's not dependable. It's not a, unless you tie in a bunch of MPLS lines all the time, it's not very reliable. And so you want something that can do that reliably. >> And SaaS drives that the cloud and SaaS. >> SaaS drives it correct the consumption model of SaaS is driving the need for a better WAN. The current solution for a better WAN is different flavors of SD-WAN. >> I want to ask you about Cisco because one of the things I'm really been focused on is the evolution of Cisco. They own the routes, they have BGP, cloud has networking but there's some needs that the enterprise's might have, certainly at the edge and with the edge of the network, and Cisco has that position. The future of networking in the cloud application of networking if we take this to the next level is, puts a bulls eye on Cisco. It certainly shines a spotlight on their market position and potentially opportunities or losses that they may incur from it. So there's opportunities, there's scenarios of where they can gain big time. And there's scenarios where they could get flat-footed. What your thoughts on their position. >> That's a really good, I think that's a really good point. Look, the good news, so yes, if you look at what happened to the various incumbents in compute, you know, the move to cloud was interesting at best for them, right? And so obviously the cloudification of networking and the fact that more of it will be in the public cloud is going to present some challenges to the existing network players, The biggest one of course and probably the most capable of them being Cisco, of course. But the change will be different because networking, as all the networking geeks always say, is a bit different, right. I think the first thing that, the first challenge that Cisco faces is, you know, we're moving to, as a service, right? And they've started to understand that and, you know, you have like Meraki that provides everything as a service. So I think, they're just a business model thing, they would have to figure out, okay, well how do we charge? Because, you know, people are used to cloud, they're saying well I want everything as a service. I think the bigger challenge that I think-- >> That's working up for some, Nutanix took a year. They took a loss on their stock price for a year but the pivot moved. >> They have to move. And again you have to decide when you make that switch, the innovators dilemma right? Especially someone like Cisco's got massive business you know, you can't just say, "Oh this is cool let's go do that." >> John: Next week. >> So it's a difficult, it's obviously-- >> So they can do as a service. What else do you see? >> The can do as a service. I think the bigger issue for them is when you start doing as a service then the question is what assets do you own in the network on the WAN, right? Today, they tried to do this, when the cloud came up they had their multicloud, I forgot what they called it, and that really didn't play out because they weren't really a compute provider to do that, so that made sense. I think in the network they have a lot more assets. But I think they're going to have to own some assets I think to provide a network as a service they can go two ways, they can rely on the telcos. But, you know, I think CISCO's a bit more agile than the telcos, and I don't know that's going to work. They're trying to do that-- >> There's a new chip coming out. >> They're trying to do that to rely on the telcos to do this as a service. But I think ultimately they're going to have to figure out how to own some networking assets if they truly want to be a player here. >> When you say assets what do you mean by that? more assets-- >> A network, own networks, own a network. Like if you're looking at the, if you look at Amazon or Google so forth, right? They're owning, they're building out networks. If you want to do a network as a service and you don't own some assets, right. >> John: You're relying on someone else. >> You're relying on someone else, and, you know, that works, but, you know, like apple if you want to control the experience you need to own it. Now they understand, the good news about Cisco is, you know, they, Cisco understands all of this, they understand networking, they're very close to their customers, they see what's going on. But, you know, they have innovators dilemma they've got to deal with. >> I would agree, you think they understand what's going on? >> Yes. >> And they just haven't made their moves yet? >> They haven't made moves that are obvious. And also, you know, dilemmas are difficult, right, innovators dilemma, there's a reason why it's called the dilemma. If it wasn't a dilemma, then you'd just go, "Okay let's do this," right (chuckles). So it's easy to sit here and pontificate while they're protecting a whatever $50 billion business. I think that they understand they've got to make choices and they've got to pick the timing of when they do certain things. >> That's the key point. Sometimes the best decision is not to move, but also the time that they waste you can't get that back. So, timings everything here. Just in your opinion, if you were at Cisco what would you do? Get some assets? >> I think that historically when Cisco had to wanted to make big moves like this the way they got around waiting is acquisitions. So, you know, I think that they will have to acquire some, if they want to make this move they choose to make this move it will involve acquisitions, maybe deeper partnerships with some people who currently own networks. There are various players in that area, in that space. But historically, at least, that's been their playbook and that way, because they have a big checkbook, they can make up for the fact that they took their time. >> Yeah, but, also John Chambers addressed transitions with a lot of M&A and it ended up biting them in the butt a little bit because you've got to integrate it all. I personally think that Cisco's opportunity is to be the on ramp for multicloud, to own the edge, and I think they need to find their TCP/IP moment. If you go back to the OSI stack, that changed the game, that created Internetwork, and that created Cisco the open standards. And I see the whole world almost going to proprietary. I remember those days you had DECnet, SNA proprietary NAS, right, and what's interesting now is everyone's going back to these proprietary walled garden kind of models, you know, open source with a twist. So the question I'm looking at is that, is there going to be this interoperable layer, abstraction layer that could exist between creating cloudification of networking and more value? >> Look I think the opportunity, right, but again that opportunity requires a big investment. And Cisco has the ability to make that investment, is to be the on ramp to the multicloud. But that means your network has to be better than the cloud guys because you're honest broker, and to have a map, but you only have one massive footprint whether it's through partnerships or whatever, you have to have massive footprint, that footprint costs money. So like I said, I think if someone could do it, Cisco could do it, but, you know, they have the service providers who are their partners. So, you know, they may not be that happy, requires a big investment, requires a different mindset. I think they understand the challenge. I think, again, they have innovators dilemma, but it's an opportunity and a threat for them. >> Well, Saar, it's great to see you. I know you're just chilling out now advising, investing, you're clipping coupons sitting on the beach. >> Beats is hard, but you know. >> You're doing some fun things. Let's get you back in, there're some things I wanted to chat next time, 5G network automation. I think the analytics, auto tuning, AI is going to be a big thing. I think Wi-Fi application awareness. These are topics I would love to have you come in and do a drill down on, appreciate it. >> Always great to be here. >> Great. Saar Galli, friend of theCUBE. Now analysts here in our studio for future of networking. We're going to continue the series, more networking. Cloudification of networking a big trend, theCUBE is on it. It's going to impact the edge, it's going to impact enterprises, it's going to impact how we do business. And more importantly how software is being built. This is theCUBE here in Palo Alto I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching (upbeat instrumental)

>> Narrator: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico, it's theCube, covering CoinAgenda, brought to you by SiliconANGLE. (salsa music) >> Hello everyone, welcome to our special CUBE exclusive coverage in Puerto Rico. I've been here on the island all week, talking to the most important people, entrepreneurs, citizens of Puerto Rico, the entrepreneur, the students, connecting with Blockchain, investors, thought leaders, and the pioneers. I'm John Furrier, the cohost of theCUBE, co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media, and we're here with Crystal Rose, who is the CEO and co-founder of Sensay, doing something really cutting edge, really relevant, and kind of ahead of its time, but I think it's time to get it out there and get that token program. Crystal Rose, thanks for joining me and spending time with me. >> Thank you for having me. >> So one of the things I think that you're doing, and I want you to explain this because it's nuanced, and a lot of the super geeks get it and alpha geeks will get it, but the mainstream people are used to dealing in their silos. I use Facebook, I use LinkedIn, I use Twitter, I use chat, I use Telegram, I use these apps. The world's kind of horizontally being disrupted because of the network affect that Blockchain and Crypto is now the underpinnings of, and there's ICOs out there and other things happening, but it's a disruption at the technology stack with software. You guys are doing something with Sensay in the SENSE token that is changing the equation of how people come together, how people grow and learn, whether it's a nonlinear path of some proficiency or connecting with folks or just learning, whatever it is, it's a discovery mechanism. Take a minute to explain what you guys are doing and why it's so important. >> Well we built Sensay to connect everyone together without any borders or intermediaries, and so really it's as simple as every phone has the capability to have a messenger. We have five billion phones that have SMS on them, and so we wanted to take the most basic messaging system, which is the most important thing that people do, and connect it to any other messenger, so Facebook Messenger, Telegram, Slack, anywhere where people are chatting, we wanted to create a system that is interoperable and can decentralize your contact list, essentially. >> Yeah, so this is important, so like most people when they go to social networks you got to find a friend, you get connected. In some cases I don't want to have to friend someone just to have a chat, I mean I may not want to friend them, or I might want to or it's a hassle, I don't know who to friend. Is that kind of where you guys come in? >> Yeah, that's one really great use case, because things like Facebook max you at five thousand friends, so if you friended everybody that you had a conversation with, if you needed to know something. Let's say that every Google search that you did was actually a conversation, you would cap the number of potential contacts. We have a circle of people around us that extends out with different tiers. But I think some of the most important people in our lives are actually strangers. So instead of building the social graph we wanted to build the stranger graph. Sensay cares more about what you know than who you know. Because if we can connect people together around similar interests and like-mindedness, we're connecting tribes, and that's really the innate human connection that we're all looking for. And it's also when you extend yourself outside of your social graph, you're most likely to educate yourself or to uplift yourself more. So the way to level up is to get somebody who's an eight or a 10 if you're a five or a two, and find someone outside of your current circle. >> And that also eliminates all this group think we've seen on some of these hate threads that have been on, whether it's Facebook or some IRC backchannel or Slack channel, you see the hate just comes in because everyone's just talking to themselves. This is the new way, right? Connecting out? Through the metadata of the chat. >> Exactly, we want people to seek out good connections, helpful connections, and so if you can both contribute what you know you get rewarded. And if you can ask people on the network you also get rewarded. So by asking something, you're receiving a reward. It's a two-way system. So it's not just the person who is helping, so we don't really encourage an economy of experts. We think that everyone is a sensei. A sensei literally means a person who's been there before. So we think of that as somebody who has had that life experience. And I think if we look at the internet, the internet democratized expertise. It gave us the ability for every single person to write what they were thinking, or contribute some kind of content in some way. But for 20 years the internet has been free. It's a really beautiful thing for consumption, and open source is the absolute right methodology for software. When it comes to your own content a reward makes sense, and so we wanted to create SENSE on top of the platform as a value exchange. It was a point system, so kind of like Reddit Karma. And we wanted to let people exchange it out for some value that they could transact in the world. >> So basically you're going to reward folks with a system that says, okay, first ante up some content, that's your SENSE token, and then based upon how you want to work with people in the network, there's a token transaction that could come out of it. Did I get that right? >> Exactly. So the person who contributes on the network gets rewarded for that data, and it can be anything that you've done in the past, too. So if you have a lot historical data on Facebook or on GitHub for instance. Let's say you're a developer and you have a bunch of repos out there that could be analyzed to see what kind of developer you are, or if you've contributed a lot to Reddit, all of that data is out there, and it's been something that defines you and your personality and your skills and who you are, so you can leverage that, and you can get a reward for it just by letting Sensay understand more about you, so the AI runs through it. You get more rewards, though, if you have real conversations. So it's almost like a bounty program on conversation. >> So we have the same mission. We love what you're doing. I'm really so glad you're doing it. I want to get to an example in Puerto Rico where you've reached out with strangers, I know you have. And get that, I want to get to that in a minute, but I want to continue on the Sensay for a second and the SENSE token. As you guys do this, what is the token going to be looking like to the user? Because you have a user who's contributing content and data, and then you have people who are going to transact with the token, it could be a bounty, it could be someone trying to connect. How is the token economics, just so I can get that out there, how does that work? >> Well right now in Sensay the transaction is peer to peer, so both users who are chatting have the ability to tip each other, essentially. They can give each other some coins within the chat. We have the concept that when you're having a conversation it's always a buyer and a seller. It's always a merchant and a consumer, and sometimes those roles flip, too. I'll be selling you something and eventually you're selling me something. But it's a natural way that we chat to transact. So that was the first way that the token could be used. We then realized that the powerful part of the platform is actually everything underlying the application. So the layer underneath really was the most powerful thing. And so SENSE network evolved as a way for developers who are creating apps or bots to be able to build on top of the network and leverage the access to the humans or to their data, and so now the token can be used to access the network. You get paid if you contribute data or users and vice versa, you can pay to access them. What that's doing is it's taking away the advertising model from being the only entity that's earning a profit on the data. So you, the user, when you're giving your data to Facebook, Facebook earns a lot of money on it, selling it over and over repeatedly to advertisers, and while it's technically yours in the terms you own it, you don't actually have any upside of that profit, and so what we're doing is saying, well why don't we just let a potential business talk to you directly on your consent and give you the money directly for that? So that two or five dollars for one connection would go straight to you. >> This is the new business model. I mean, this is something that, I mean first of all, don't get me started on my ad and tech rant because advertising creates a bad behavior. Okay? You're chasing a business model that's failing, attention and page views, so the content is not optimized the proper way. And you mentioned the Facebook example. Facebook's not optimizing their data for a user experience, they're optimizing for their monetization, which is counter to what users want to do. So I think you kind of are taking it in another direction, which we love 'cause that's what we do, we are open source content, but the role of the data is critical so I got to ask you the hard question. I'm a user, it's my data, how do the developers get access to it? Do they pay me coins or... You want developers because that's going to be a nice piece of the growth so what's the relationship between the developer, who's trying to add value, but also respecting the user's data? >> Exactly, so the developer pays the network and as a user you're a token holder, you own the network, essentially. So there is really no real middle layer since the token will take a small amount out for continuing to power the network, but a nominal amount. Right now the most expensive thing that happens is the gas that's on top of Ethereum because we're an ERC20 token. So we're looking to be polychain. We want to move onto other types of blockchains that have better, faster transactions with no fees and be able to pass that through as well. So we really want to just do a peer-to-peer connection. There's no interest in owning that connection or owning the repository of data. That's why the blockchain's important. We want the data to be distributed, we want it to be owned by the user, and we want it to be accessible by anyone that they want to give access to. So if it's a developer, they're building a bot maybe, or if it's a brand, they're using a developer on their behalf they have to pay the user for that data. So the developer's incentives are completely aligned with the peer-to-peer architecture that you have, users interests, and the technical underpinnings of the plumbing. Is that right? >> Exactly. >> Okay, good, so check. Now I got that. All right, now let's talk about my favorite topic, since we're on this kind of data topic. Who's influential? I mean, what does an influencer mean to you? Is it the most followers (mumbles) it's kind of a canned question, you can hear it coming. I'll just say it. I don't like the influencer model right now because it's all about followers. It's the wrong signal. 'Cause you can have a zillion followers and not be influential. And we know people are buying followers. So there's kind of been that gamification. What should influence really be like in this network? Because sometimes you can be really influential and then discover and go outside your comfort zone into a new area for some reason, whether it's a discovery or progression to some proficiency or connection, you're not an influencer, you're a newbie. So, context is very important. How do you guys look at, how do you look at influencers and how influence is measured? >> I think at the bare bones an influencer is someone who drives action. So it's a person who can elicit an action in another person. And if you can do that at scale, so one to many, then you have more power as an influencer. So that's sort of the traditional thinking. But I think we're missing something there, which is good action. So an influencer to me, a good influencer, is somebody who can encourage positive action. And so if it's one to one and you get one person to do one positive thing, versus one to a thousand and you get a thousand people to do something not so great, like buy a product that's crap because it was advertised to them for the purpose of that influencer making profit, that metric doesn't add up. So I think we live in a world of vanity metrics, where we have tons of numbers all over the place, we have hearts and likes and stars and followers and all of these things that keep adding up, but they have no real value. And so I think it's a really, like you said before, the behavior is being trained in the wrong way. We're encouraged to just get numbers rather than quality, and so what I think a really good influencer is is somebody who has a small group of people who will always take action. It can be any number of people. But let's say a group of followers who will take action based on that person's movements and will follow them in a positive direction. >> And guess what, its a network graph so you can actually measure it. That's interesting... >> Exactly, exactly. >> I can see where you're going with this. Okay, so I got to talk about your role here in Puerto Rico. You mentioned earlier about reaching out to strangers, the stranger graph, which is a way, people's outside of their comfort zones sometimes, reaching out to strangers. You came here in the analog sense, you're in person, but on the digital side as well, kind of blends together. Give an example where you reached out to strangers and how that's impacted your life and their life, because this is the heart of your system, if I can get that right. You're connecting people and creating value, I mean sometimes there might not be value, but you're creating connections, which have the potential for more value. What have you done here in Puerto Rico that's been a stranger outreach that turned into a wow moment. >> Our outreach has been so far an invitation. So we bought a space here that's turned into a community center. Even at the very beginning we had no power as most of the places around that have been sitting for a year or two or since the hurricane, and so we put a call out and said we'd like to get to know the community. We're doing something called Let There Be Light, which is turn the power on, and you know, we put it out to a public group and saw who would show up. So basically it's a community, central building, it's a historical building, so a lot of people know it. There's a lot of curiosity, so it was just a call, it was a call for help. It was really, I think the biggest thing people love is when you're asking them for help, and then you give gratitude in return for that help and you create a connection around it. So that's why we built Sensay the way that we did, and I think there's a lot of possibilities for how it could be used, but having that encouragement of the community to come and share, we've done that now this whole week, so this is restart week, and one of the other things that we've done is help all of the conferences come together, collaborate rather than compete, so go into the same week, and put all of these satellite groups around it. And then we blanketed a week around it so that we had one place for people to go and look for all of the events, and also for them to understand a movement. So we since then have done a dinner every single night, and it's been an open invitation. It's basically whoever comes in first, and we've had drinks every night as well, open. So it's really been an invitation. It's been an open invitation. >> Well congratulations. I really love what you're doing. You guys are doing great work down here. The event this week has been great. We've got great content. We have some amazing people and it's working, so congratulations on that. As you guys look forward, one of the things I've observed in my many years of history, is that there are a lot of waves, I've seen all the waves, this wave's the biggest. But what jumps out at me is the mission-driven aspect of it. So I mean I can geek out on what's the decentralize and the stacks and all the tech stuff happening, but what's most impressive is the mission oriented, the impact kind of thinking. This is now, society is now software driven. This is a new major thinking. Used to be philanthropy was a waterfall model. Yeah, donate, it either goes or doesn't go. Go to the next one, go to the next one. Now you have this integrated model where it's not just philanthropy, it's action, there's money behind it, there's coding, there's community. This is now a new era of societal entrepreneurship, societal missions. Let's talk about your vision on this mission and impact culture that's part of this ethos. >> I think impact is the important word there. So we think about, we think about bringing capital, like you said with normal philanthropy, you can bring capital and you can continuously pump capital into something, but if the model is wrong it's just going to drain, and it's going to go to inefficient systems, and in the end maybe do some help, but a very small percentage of the capacity of what it could do. So what we have the concept of is bringing funds here. We have a fund that was just launched called Restart Ventures, and the idea is instead of compounding interests, we want to make compounding impact, and so it's a social good focused fund, but at the same time all of the proceeds generated from the fund recycle back into other things that are making more impact. So we're measuring based on how much impact can be created with different projects. It could be a charity or it could be an entrepreneur. And if we're getting a multiple, most of that money is going back. So a very small percentage goes to the actual fund and to the fund managers, and the lion's share of the fund is going back into Puerto Rico. So I think if we look at how we can help in a way that is constantly regenerative, sustainable is good, regenerative is better. We want to at least elevate ourselves and get to the point of sustainability, but we're not improving at that point. We're still just fixing problems. We want regenerative. So if we can keep planting things that regrow themselves, if we can make it so that we're setting up the ecosystem to constantly mend itself, it's like a self-healing system of software, this is the right way to do it. So I think that's the new model. >> You built in some nurturing into the algorithm, I like that. 'Cause you're not going to do the classic venture capital carry, you're going to rotate in, but still pay some operators to run it, so they got to get paid. So I noticed in the announcement there was some money for managing directors to do it. So they get paid, and the rest goes into the compounding impact. >> Right. >> Okay, so I got to ask you what your view is these days on something that's really been important in open source software, which again, when I started it was a tier 2 citizen, at best, now it's running the world, tier 1. Open source ethoses are sprinkled throughout these new, awesome opportunities, but community made it happen. What is your current view on the role of the community, communities in general, to make this new compounding impact, whether it's software development, innovation, impact giving, regenerative growth. What's your view on community? >> If community operates with a mentality of giving or contribution over consumption we do a lot better. So when you have an open source network, if a community comes and they contribute to it more, that's something that regenerates. It keeps adding value. But if a community comes and they just keep consuming, then you have to continue to have more and more people giving. I think a really good example of this is Wikipedia. Wikipedia has hundreds of thousands of people who constantly contribute, and the only reward that they've ever gotten for that is a banner ad that says please donate because we don't do ads. So it's a broken model, because you want it to be free and you want it to continue to have the same ethos and you want it to have no advertising, yet the people who contribute most of the time also contribute most of the funding to keep it alive because they love it and care about it so much. So how could we change that model so that the community could give contributions while also receiving a way to make sure that they're able to keep doing that. And a reward system works, and maybe that's not the only solution, but we have to think about how we can keep creating more and more. >> Well I think transparency is one thing I've always loved. The thing that I always hear, especially with women in tech and these new important areas like underserved minorities, and also the bad behavior that goes on in other groups, is to shine the light on things. Having the data being open, changes everything. That is a huge thing. So community and open data. Your thoughts? I'm sure you agree? Open data and the importance of having the data exposed. >> One hundred percent. So our platform also has a layer of anonymity on the user by default, and part of the idea of being able to understand whether or not data is good. Because think of human data, we have to figure out quality. In the past there would be a validation system that is actually other humans telling you whether or not you're good and giving you some accreditation, some verification. This is our concept of experts on things. Now we would rather take consensus. So let's just crowdsource this validation and use a consensus mechanism that would see whether or not other humans think the data is good. If we're using a system like that, we have to have open data, it has to be transparent and it has to be able to be viewed in order to be voted on. So on our platform on just the first application on Sensay, we expose this consensus mechanism in a feature called Peek. So Peek basically lets you peek inside of conversations happening on the network. You can watch all the conversations that happen, the AI pulls out the good ones, and then you vote on them. >> It's kind of like when you walk into a nightclub, do I want to kind of hang out here? >> Yeah, you're kind of a voyeur but you get rewarded for doing it. It's a way for us to help classify, it's a way for us to help train the AI, and also it's a way for people to have passive ability to interact without having to have a conversation with an actual human. >> Well you're exposing the conversation to folks, but also you get signaling data. Who jumps in, who kind of walks away. I mean it's a gesture data, but it's a data point. >> Right, and it's completely private. So the beauty of the transparency is there's actually privacy baked in. And that's what I love about blockchain is it has all of the good things. >> Crystal, I got to ask you a final question. I know you're very busy, and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me today here on theCUBE here in Puerto Rico. This week you've been super busy, you look great. I'm sure you've been up, burning the midnight oil, as they say. What is the, I won't say craziest thing because I've seen a lot of cool, crazy things going on here, it's been fun, what is some highlights for you? Conversations, meeting new people, can you just share a couple anecdotal highlights from restart week that have moved you or surprised you or just in general might be worth noting. >> I've been overall extremely surprised but the sheer number of people who showed up. I feel like a few months ago there was a small group of us sitting around wondering what it would be like if we could encourage our friends to come here and share the space. So just to see the thousands of people who have come here to support these several conferences has been amazing. My most surprising thing, though, is the amount of people that have told me that they bought a one-way ticket and have no intention of going home. So to make Puerto Rico your home I think is a really amazing first step, and I just did a panel earlier today with the person in government who had instituted Act 20 and 22, and that was the initial incentive-- >> Just take a minute to explain what that is for the folks that don't know what it is. >> Sure. So Act 20 and 22 are for the company and the individual respectively. They are a way for you to get a tax incentive for moving here as a resident or domiciling your company here. So you get 0% taxes. I think companies range up to 4% or something like that, and that incentive was created to bring more brilliant minds and entrepreneurs and different types of people with different vocations to the island. So basically, give them a tax incentive and encourage the stimulation of economy. So that has brought this wave of people in who have an idea that no taxes are great. At the same time they fall in love with the island. It's amazing because to me Puerto Rico is a combination of LA's weather, San Francisco's open-mindedness, and Barcelona's deep European history. It's just a really beautiful place. >> And it's US territory, so it's a short hop and a jump to the States if you need to, or Europe. >> Yeah exactly. And no customs and you have your driver's license to get here. Also it's a US dollar. And I say that because most people in America mainland don't realize that Puerto Rico is an American territory, and so they sort of think they're going to a foreign country because it's treated that way by our government. But what I've been really shocked about, though, is the sheer amount of innovation already here. The forward thinking ways of people and the embracing of things like open source and blockchain technology, because their minds are already in a mode of community, a mode of sharing, a mode of giving. >> We interviewed Michael Angelo from Edublock.ido, Edublock, they're connecting all the universities with blockchain. We also interviewed Damaris Rivera, with Puerto Rico Advantage. They'll move you down here. You can press a button, it's instant move. So folks in Silicon Valley who are watching who know us and around the world know theCUBE, there's a group of like-minded people here that have tech chops, there's capital flowing. There's capital people I know have moved here, setting up shop, as well as the Caymans and everywhere else, but it's nice. So it's kind of like LA. >> There is a lot of capital. I have just witnessed a couple hundred million dollars of funds that were established in the last couple of months. And this is around all different types of technology sectors. You don't have to be a blockchain company. You can be innovating in any way possible. One of my favorite projects is a machine that turns plastic bottles into diesel fuel. So one of the problems here is that the generators on the island, when we were here last time we met a guy that was working at a bar in a restaurant, and he was like, "Hey I saw you guys in New York Times "and I think you're like the Crypto people." And he had a conversation, and he said, "I was wondering if you could help my grandmother "who is stuck with no power, and it's been months, "and she's in her 90s, and she needs a generator to run "a machine that keeps her life supported." and so a couple of people went out to bring more fuel, bring a generator to donate. They started understanding that there are so many areas that still need this level of help, that there's a lot that we can do. So when I see projects like that, that's something I want to back. >> Yeah, it's entrepreneurial action taking impact. Crystal, thanks so much for coming out. Crystal Rose, CEO, co-founder of Sensay, real innovative company, pioneer here in the Puerto Rico movement. It's a movement, a lot of tech, entrepreneurs, capital, investors, and the pioneers in the blockchain, decentralized internet are all here. This is like the Silicon Valley of Crypto, right? >> I think they're calling it Crypto Island. >> Crypto Island, yes. It sounds like a TV show. We should be on it. It's not lost, it's Crypto Island. >> Exactly. >> Thanks so much for spending the time on theCUBE. >> Thanks John. >> John: I appreciate it. >> I appreciate it so much. Thanks for making sense of me. >> I'm John Furrier here on theCUBE here in Puerto Rico. Our coverage continues after this short break.

>>Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering Fortinet Accelerate 18. Brought to you by Fortinet. >> Welcome to Fortinet Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin with theCUBE and we're excited to be here doing our second year of coverage of this longstanding event. My cohost for the day is Peter Burris; excited to be co-hosting with Peter again, and we're very excited to be joined by the CEO, Founder, and Chief Chairman of Fortinet, Ken Xie, Ken welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you, Lisa, thank you, Peter. Happy to be here. >> It's great to be here for us as well, and the title of your Keynote was Leading the Change in Security Transformation, but something as a marketer I geeked out on before that, was the tagline of the event, Strength in Numbers. You shared some fantastic numbers that I'm sure you're quite proud of. In 2017, $1.8 in billing, huge growth in customer acquisitions 17.8 thousand new customers acquired in 2017 alone, and you also shared that Forinet protects around 90% of the Global S&P 100. Great brands and logos you shared Apple, Coca Cola, Oracle. Tell us a little bit more and kind of as an extension of your Keynote, this strength in numbers that you must be very proud of. >> Yeah, I'm an engineer background, always liked the number, and not only we become much bigger company, we actually has 25 to 30% global employment in a network security space. That give a huge customer base and last year sales grow 19% and we keeping leading the space with a new product we just announced today. The FortiGate 6000 and also the FortiOS 6.0. So all this changing the landscape and like I said last year we believe the space is in a transition now, they've got a new generation infrastructure security, so we want to lead again. We started the company 18 years ago to get into we called a UTM network firewall space. We feel infrastructure security is very important now. And that we want to lead in the transition and lead in the change. >> So growth was a big theme or is a big theme. Some of the things that we're also interesting is another theme of really this evolution, this landscape I think you and Peter will probably get into more the technology, but give our viewers a little bit of an extension of what you shared in your keynote about the evolution. These three generations of internet and network security. >> Yeah, when I first start my network security career the first company I was study at Stanford University, I was in the 20s. It was very exciting is that a space keeping changing and grow very fast, that makes me keeping have to learning everyday and that I like. And then we start a company call Net Screen when it was early 30s, that's my second company. We call the first generation network security which secured a connection into the trust company environment and the Net Screens a leader, later being sold for $4 billion. Then starting in 2000, we see the space changing. Basically you only secure the connection, no longer enough. Just like a today you only validate yourself go to travel with a ticket no longer enough, they need to see what you carry, what's the what's the luggage has, right. So that's where we call them in application and content security they call the UTM firewall, that's how Fortinet started. That's the second generation starting replacing the first generation. But compared to 18 years ago, since change it again and nowadays the data no longer stay inside company, they go to the mobile device, they go to the cloud, they call auditive application go to the IoT is everywhere. So that's where the security also need to be changed and follow the important data secure the whole infrastructure. That's why keeping talking from last year this year is really the infrastructure security that secure fabric the starting get very important and we want to lead in this space again like we did 18 years ago starting Fortinet. >> Ken, I'd like to tie that, what you just talked about, back to this notion of strength in numbers. Clearly the bad guys that would do a company harm are many and varied and sometimes they actually work together. There's danger in numbers Fortinet is trying to pull together utilizing advanced technologies, new ways of using data and AI and pattern recognition and a lot of other things to counter effect that. What does that say about the nature of the relationships that Fortinet is going to have to have with its customers going forward? How is that evolving, the idea of a deeper sharing? What do you think? >> Actually, the good guy also started working together now. We formed the they call it the Cyber Threat Alliance, the CTA, and Fortinet is one of the founding company with the five other company including Palo Alto Network, Check Point and McAfee and also feel a Cisco, there's a few other company all working together now. We also have, we call, the Fabric-Ready Program which has 42 big partners including like IBM, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, all this bigger company because to defend the latest newest Fabric threat you have to be working together and that also protect the whole infrastructure. You also need a few company working together and it's a because on average every big enterprise they deploy 20 to 30 different products from different company. Management cost is number one, the highest cost in the big enterprise security space because you have to learn so many different products from so many different vendor, most of them competitor and now even working together, now communicate together. So that's where we want to change the landscape. We want to provide how infrastructure security can work better and not only partner together but also share the data, share the information, share the intelligence. >> So fundamentally there is the relationship is changing very dramatically as a way of countering the bad actors by having the good actors work more closely together and that drives a degree of collaboration coordination and a new sense of trust. But you also mentioned that the average enterprise is 20 to 30 fraud based security products. Every time you introduce a new product, you introduce some benefits you introduce some costs, potentially some new threat surfaces. How should enterprises think about what is too many, what is not enough when they start thinking about the partnerships that needed put together to sustain that secure profile? >> In order to have the best protection today you need to secure the whole infrastructure, the whole cyberspace. Network security still the biggest and also grow very fast and then there's the endpoint and there's a like a cloud security, there's a whole different application, email, web and all the other cloud all the other IoT. You really need to make sure all these different piece working together, communicate together and the best way is really, they have to have a single panel of our management service. They can look at them, they can make it integrate together they can automate together, because today's attack can happen within seconds when they get in the company network. It's very difficult for human to react on that. That's where how to integrate, how to automate, this different piece, that is so important. That's where the Fabric approach, the infrastructure approach get very important. Otherwise, you cannot react quick enough, in fact, to defend yourself in a current environment. On the other side for your question, how many vendor do you have, I feel the less the better. At least they have to work together. If they're not working together, will make it even more difficult to defend because each part they not communicate and not react and not automate will make the job very, very difficult and that's where all this working together and the less vendor they can all responsible for all your security it's better. So that's where we see some consolidation in the space. They do still have a lot of new company come up, like you mentioned, there's close to 2,000 separate security company. A lot of them try to address the point solution. I mentioned there's a four different level engineer after engineer work there because I see 90% company they do the detection. There's a certain application you can detect the intrusion and then the next level is where they after you attack what are going to do about it. Is it really the prevention setting kick in automatic pull out the bad actor. After that, then you need to go to the integration because there's so many different products, so many different piece you need to working together, that's the integration. Eventually the performance and cost. Because security on average still cost 100 times more expensive under same traffic and also much slower compared to the routing switch in networking device. That's what the performance cost. Also starting in the highest level, that's also very difficult to handle. >> So, we're just enough to start with the idea of data integration, secure data integration amongst the security platform, so enough to do as little as possible, as few as possible to do that, but enough to cover all the infrastructure. >> Yes, because the data is all a whole different structure. You no longer does have to trust environment. Because even inside the company, there's so many different way you can access to the outside, whether it by your mobile device so there's a multiple way you can connect on the internet and today in the enterprise 90% connection goes to Wi-Fi now it's not goes to a wired network, that's also difficult to manage. So that's where we will hide it together and make it all working together it's very important. >> So, in the spirit of collaboration, collaborating with vendors. When you're talking with enterprises that have this myriad security solutions in place now, how are they helping to guide and really impact Fortinet's technologies to help them succeed. What's that kind of customer collaboration like, I know you meet with a lot of customers, how are they helping to influence the leading security technologies you deliver? >> We always want to listen the customer. They have the highest priority, they gave us the best feedback. Like the presentation they talked about there's a case from Olerica which is where they have a lot of branch office and they want to use in the latest technology and networking technology, SD-WAN. Are working together with security, that's ready the new trend and how to make sure they have all the availability, they have the flexibility software-defined networking there and also make sure to security also there to handle the customer data, that's all very important so that's what we work very closely with customer to response what they need. That's where I'm still very proud to be no longer kind of engineer anymore but will still try to build in an engineer technology company. Listen to the customer react quick because to handle security space, cyber security, internet security, you have to work to quickly react for the change, on internet, on application. So that's where follow the customer and give them the quick best solution it's very very important. >> On the customer side in Anaemia we talked about that was talked a little bit about this morning with GDPR are is around the corner, May 2018. Do you see your work coordinates work with customers in Anaemia as potentially being, kind of, leading-edge to help customers in the Americas and Asia-Pacific be more prepared for different types of compliance regulations? >> We see the GDPR as an additional opportunity, as a additional complement solution compared to all the new product technology would come up. They definitely gave us an additional business rate, additional opportunity, to really help customer protect the data, make the data stay in their own environment and the same time, internet is a very global thing, and how to make sure different country, different region, working together is also very important. I think it's a GDPR is a great opportunity to keeping expanding a security space and make it safer for the consumer for the end-user. >> So Ken as CEO Fortinet or a CEO was tough act, but as CEO you have to be worried about the security of your business and as a security company you're as much attacked, if not more attacked than a lot of other people because getting to your stuff would allow folks to get to a lot of other stuff. How do you regard the Fortinet capabilities inside Fortinet capability as providing you a source of differentiation in the technology industry? >> Yeah we keep security in mind as the highest priority within a company. That's where we develop a lot of product, we also internally use tests first. You can see from endpoint, the network side, the email, to the web, to the Wi-Fi access, to the cloud, to the IoT, it's all developing internally, it tests internally so the infrastructure security actually give you multiple layer protection. No longer just have one single firewall, you pass the fire were all open up. It's really multiple layer, like a rather the ransomware or something they had to pass multiple layer protection in order to really reach the data there. So that's where we see the infrastructure security with all different products and developed together, engineer working together is very important. And we also have were strong engineer and also we call the IT security team lead by Phil Cauld, I think you are being interview him later and he has a great team and a great experience in NSA for about 30 years, secure country. And that's where we leverage the best people, the best technology to provide the best security. Not only the portal side, also our own the internal security in this space. >> So, in the last minute or so that we have here, one of the things that Patrice Perce your global sales leader said during his keynote this morning was that security transformation, this is the year for it. So, in a minute or so, kind of what are some of the things besides fueling security transformation for your customers do you see as priorities and an exciting futures this year for Fortinet, including you talked about IoT, that's a $9 billion opportunity. You mentioned the securing the connected car to a very cool car in there, what are some of the things that are exciting to you as the leader of this company in 2018? >> We host some basic technology, not another company has. Like a built in security for a single chip. I also mentioned like some other bigger company, like a Google started building a TPU for the cloud computing and Nvidia the GPU. So we actually saw this vision 18 years ago when we start a company and the combine the best hardware and best technology with solve for all this service together. So, long term you will see the huge benefit and that's also like translate into today you can see all these technology enable us to really provide a better service to the customer to the partner and we all starting benefit for all this investment right now. >> Well Ken, thank you so much for joining us back on theCUBE. It's our pleasure to be here at the 16th year of the event, our second time here. Thanks for sharing your insight and we're looking forward to a great show. >> Thank you, great questions, it's the best platform to really promoting the technology, promoting the infrastructure security, thank you very much. >> Likewise, we like to hear that. For my co-host Peter Burris, I'm Lisa Martin, we are coming to you from Fortinet Accelerate 2018. Thanks for watching, stick around we have great content coming up.