live from San Francisco it's the queue covering micron insight 2019 back to you by micron welcome back to micron insight 2019 in San Francisco you watching the cube the leader and live tech coverage we're wrapping up our day Dave Volante with David Floria we're Kia Jones is here she's the senior principal for 5g connectivity in the GPM group at Microsoft great to see you great to see you guys it's been a wonderful day yeah nice job up on stage today you know we're gonna talk a little bit about a 5g and get your perspectives on it but tell us more about your group and sort of what you focused yeah well you know I'm in Azure and azure is even though it's our cloud infrastructure there has to be a lot of backbone support so inside of networking we have all those components that would support the physical structure of cloud technology so we focus on virtualizing a lot of the different managed services that we have and we provide those to customers for scalability and sustainable models that allow them to pretty much transport data safely what's it like inside of Microsoft these days I mean what a transformation of the company I did a little segment on LinkedIn the other day a little video segment there's a lot of ways if you want to spend some money there's a lot of ways to spend money with Microsoft you know you got cloud you got an application management you got security you got all the abs I mean really is you're hitting on all cylinders it's what a dynamic what's it like inside of there these days you know I think I think the world now is very different I see Microsoft making a huge transformation over the last have only been there three years but what I can say to you is that I see that the opportunity is there for partnership now which is something that I don't think we focused on we did too well in the past with our new CEO Satya Nadella and Peggy Johnson who leads our business development I mean we are really taking the the game and just changing and and making making it more something that we can do with everyone instead of in silo and so the culture is definitely changing is their opportunity yeah but I think our company is dedicated and focused on you know creating more diverse technology that can meet two customer's needs all over the yeah I mean windows are still a huge part of Microsoft's business but it's not the future of Microsoft it's very very impressive to see that transformation all right what what should we know about 5g what's Microsoft's put point of view on 5g what's the opportunity for you well that's a great question a lot of people were like Microsoft and 5g how does that work well in the past I think with the telcos and all the communication service providers we've always been either their customer or they've been our customer the new world that we're going into now is how do we help the telcos now be better enablers so that we can accelerate business and so I took over this charter along with my boss Yusuf Khalidi and about a year ago and our vision for what we thought we could do came to really great reality when we understood the the ecosystem that already existed this this business of 5g is not as simple as it sounds so what we decided to do and we released a press release back in July was we're going pretty much all in in a sense with AT&T in helping them with their global strategy for really Wireless you know to help stabilize their wireless network and combine some software-defined principles and capabilities so what they're they're already planning for in the future so I think with that transformation honestly a lot of it is unknown but we're taking a day by day we're talking earlier about a lot of is unknown in terms of like what apps are going to emerge who's gonna pay for what but but there's a lot of hype around 5g certainly a lot of folks in the technology community you're excited about it yeah help us understand what's real and what's not what's hype and what sort of things that users can actually expect and then I want to know exact months and you know what I think if you can imagine it it's a possibility I think it all boils down to the type of partnerships I always say that it's the power of three in the sense in the past has always been the power of two where two companies come together we can make it work well now you need you need an extra component not only do you need a company like Microsoft but you need to tell Co but you're going to need a system integrator right and I'm not talking about the hardware side but more of the software application side I think if a lot of people talking about like these things we know that smart city we think that's a possibility real soon mmm I still think we got it way to go with a lot of the townships and the city infrastructures moving so slow with governmental policies changing I think that we can likely see improvement in connected vehicles connected you know Internet of Things in and if everything is coming we first must be able to connect the dots with those things first before we actually bring in a government entity I think they have a lot of questions that we're not yet ready to answer and so I think there's a lot of great need for POCs and that's what my team focuses on inside of Azure networking he's looking at what can be the next PLC where we can help truly define the next generation requirements you're kind of acting as the accelerant I like the power three analogy a bump set spike yeah right now fashion sports analogies in the cube and then you know you point about I think governments is right on I was saying the earlier to David that I participated in a mayor of Boston as this you know the Smart City future initiative and you're talking 2050 oh yeah you know that's their time horizon I'm trying to figure that that's right around the corner yeah I mean I can't believe we're about to be in the 2020 feels like I just graduated high school when you're looking at these opportunities there seems to be a big divergence of opinion in terms of networking between are you going to push the processing out to the edge and do as much of it possible there and only take the the subset of data from that processing or are you going to bring it in to some sort of center to do do the processing there yeah what are you what are you seeing in your five-year as the models of computer putting together compute storage and networking yeah for me I have a this is rukia's opinion but I think that in the future when we talk about compute we need to be able to chop it up and we need to sell it to individuals individuals could be enterprises or consumer in my world and the way I think about this I think that we have an enormous amount of opportunity to give customers freedom and flexibility if we're not able to give them freedom and flexibility I think that we really limit the possibilities of what truly podgy can bring and so in my world I believe that you should be able to prepay for your computing power I believe that you can literally distribute it among all your devices within your families like you know you have the family rate plans that the telcos are selling well think about this and that family rate plan now there's an additional component that you will sell which will be compute I may not want to go as fast as you like for gaming for instance absolutely right okay gaming for everyone and at the speed of what you need so atomic of components of compute that you can actually assign to individual users applications workloads yeah it's not - you told me tomorrow rookie what do you want to do that's not saying ok so what what are you doing here what's the connection between sort of Microsoft your role and you know this micron insight event micron is a a great partner with with Microsoft I think we do a lot of business as it relates to chips I specifically am here because Peggy Johnson supports the company and she's over our business development operations for the companies and she believes micron is on to something and so I'm proud to be here and getting to know more about the business visit micron and the partnerships that we can create in the future well we more partnerships obviously you need membrane storage to run all this totally do we can do it part of the build-out well Rukia thank you so much for for coming on the cube we'll give you the last word your takeaway is what should we be watching for from you and your group yeah I mean I think that as we go forth with our partnership with AT&T which happens to be one of the global carriers around the world we are planning for some amazing things and we will make announcements at our Microsoft ignite event in early November and so I hope that everyone will attend that event and perhaps support us by sharing the information and coming to talk to us about new partnerships with our clouds networking department great well we'll be there at ignite hope to have you back on that'll be great thank you and thank you everybody thank you David Fleur a great job with the crew which is a wrap from Pier 27 at Microsoft blending Microsoft mega you both say the same names right the insight conference micron inside 2019 check out Silicon angle comm check out the cube net for all the videos and we'll see you next time is Dave Volante for David floor thank you

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering micron insight 2019 brought to you by micron welcome back to San Francisco everybody we're here at Pier 27 the Sun is setting behind the the buildings in San Francisco you're watching the cube the leader in live tech cover jump date Volante with my co-host David Flair we've been here all day covering micron insight 2019 Tommy Vee is here is the senior vice president and general manager of the compute and networking business unit at micron Tama great to see you again great to see you so you got compute and networking two of the big three you're in your business unit there you go but we're gonna talk about 3d crosspoint today but so anyway you know absolutely we're kind of bringing you outside the swimlane or maybe not but tell us about your bu and what's the update yes we you know we sell primarily memory today DRAM although in the future we see 3d crosspoint it's a great opportunity into the the data center you know both traditional servers and the cloud players pcs graphics and networking yes so you get some hard news today why don't we dig into that a little bit we surely haven't covered much of it but okay yeah so I guess you know a couple couple things of interest probably most directly as we we announced our our first 3d crosspoint storage device it's a it's a it's the highest performance SSD in the world and offers compared to other 3d crosspoint based solutions on the market you know anywhere from three and a half to five times the performance on a range of both sequential and random reads and writes two and a half million I ops bandwidth readin right north of nine gigabytes a second and I'm super fast super fast fast and you know similar similar you know a very positive comparisons up against up against me and SSDs ok and so we're excited about that so where's the fit what are the use cases who you're targeting with sure yeah I mean I think you know that one way to think about it is that anytime you introduce a new layer into the memory and storage hierarchy you know historically it was SRAM caches and then it was SSDs going in between dear and rotating media now this is 3d crosspoint sitting in between DRAM and and NAND and and the reason it is a benefit in terms of another layer is it's you know higher density and and greater persistence than DRAM it's greater performance and and you know you can it can cycle greater endurance than the man and and when you do that you do nibble away at either side of that layer so in this case that nibbles away a little bit from DRAM and a little bit from NAND but it grows the overall pie and it's the only player in the industry that provides DRAM 3d crosspoint in and we think that's a great opportunity at some code to the economics cuz it's more expensive than and less expensive than the DRAM higher performance than the traditional flash short lower performance well under the performance of DRAM so yeah I mean so again I think you know the the the you know the benefits like I said is it's it offers greater density and it offers greater persistence than DRAM and so that's the advantage there and it offers much greater performance on things like bandwidth and I ops and much greater endurance than the NAND and certainly our preliminary results are in in applications like databases in certain AI and machine learning workloads and in workloads that that benefit from low latency I think financial service markets is one specific example you know we think there's a good value bro so so a Colombo question if I may yeah so si P would say no throw it throw everything in memory in Hana and of course sell the DRAM and say ok that's ok with us so you mentioned databases how should we think about this relative to in-memory databases sure I mean I think that if if you can afford it and of course it will be more expensive we would love to provide you know our highest density DRAM modules on on the highest end server platforms and you know put put you know you mentioned you know Hana database in the terabytes and terabytes of the RAM that would be great that is is not free if we refer you to do it right exactly and and so if you have the need for that performance that's will do but we we see there's a you know a an attractive range of workloads that cannot afford you know there's a costume that very high-end solution and so this affords something that that gives you know good benefits a database performance but at a slightly more I know you want to jump in go oh yeah sure I compare yourself with Intel which is obviously got the same raw technology they have gone for consumer type obtain [Music] SSDs but they put all their effort into combining it with a DVD or envied him and have combined that with the processor itself and made a combination which is very good for storage controllers yeah so the quest you can very well in in in the SSD much much much more than they have are you looking to go into that and the dim because he obviously you don't have the processes themselves to to to man yeah I mean you know to be clear the you know what we're offering today you know is a product that runs on standard and yeah and via me and while there may in the future be opportunities to further enhance performance with software optimization it runs you know out of the box absolutely without any software optimization and but I do think that you know there are opportunities both to use this technology in you know more of a storage type of configuration and and looking forward there are also opportunities to use it in a memory configuration you know what what what we're announcing today is our is our first storage and with regard to additional products you know stay tuned so if I think about the storage hierarchy you know the the classical pyramid and forget about let's let's focus on the persistent end of that spectrum yeah this is at the tip right is that how we should think about this or not necessarily I mean it is at the storage tip yes but I think we 10 to think a little bit more holistically that you know that that triangle extends from you know from DRAM traditionally to SSDs to rotating and we're now inserting a 3d crosspoint based layer in between and and so from that perspective it is it is the tip of the storage triangle right but it does sit below it does sit below DRAM so in the overall and the reason for my question was sort of a loaded question because if you eliminate the the DRAM piece now you've got that tip sewn and benefits from the volume of consumer thoughts on how you get volume with 3d crosspoint sure you know again I think there are you know at a at a lower performance point you know you can get higher density you know more cost effective storage solutions with that um and we certainly don't see you know NAND going away or we're quite bullish on that you're like man you know it's both a both a SATA and a nvme 96 layer TLC nan based products today so that's that continues to be a major area of investment but you know from a you know from a from a value and opportunity point of view we see a better opportunity you know applying this technology again into this layer in the you know in the in the server or datacenter hierarchy um you know as opposed to what one might be able to do in the consumer space and your OEM say bring it on right I mean they they want this we're talking about the server manufacturers data center yeah I mean I think we're in you know we're in we're in limited sampling with select customers so you know more to say about our go-to-market you know at a at a future date but certainly we we see that there is you know we're we're bullish about the opportunity the marketplace so just asking a question about volume making sure you if you look at the marketplace it's arm has been incredibly successful and it's driven a huge amount of memory and and Nan for yourself then that seems to be where the volume is growing much faster than most other platforms are you looking to use this technology 3d crosspoint as in in in that environment as even memory as in DRAM itself as memory itself at a much lower level I'm just thinking of ways that you could increase volume sure I mean so to be just just to be clear you're talking about what's driven overwhelmingly by by the cell phone market right obviously it's it's proliferating into IOT you know I guess again our our our view of the of the first and best opportunity is in the data center which is still today an x86 dominated world I would say you know in terms of opportunities like I said for you know memory based solutions in the data center um and for how we apply this in other areas you know stay tuned let's talk about this forward next acquisition so it's really interesting to see micron making moves in an AI why the acquisition tell us more about it sure yeah so it's a it's a it's a small small start-up you know handful of players although you know fairly experienced as as I believe sanjay mentioned they're on their their fifth generation of their architecture and so what we've acquired it's both it's both the hardware architecture that currently runs on FPGAs along with the supporting software that supports all the common frameworks the tensorflow is the the PI torches as well as the range of the network architectures you know that that are necessary to support again primarily on the inference side you know are we see the best opportunities in edge in fencing but in terms of what's behind the acquisition first of all there is there's an explosion of opportunity in machine learning we see that in particular on you know on edge inferencing and we feel that in order for us to continue to optimize and develop the best solutions both over all of a deep learning platform that includes memories but also just memories that are best optimized we need to understand you know when you noticed in the workloads we understand the best solutions and and and so that's why we made this acquisition we integrated it with our team that has for some time developed FPGA based adding cards and it's actually the basis of the technology for some of the dialog that used to offer example with OHSU when you talk about edge inferencing we're envisioning this sort of massively scalable distributed system that of course comprises edge you want to bring the compute to the data wherever the data lives obviously don't want to start moving data around now you're bringing a eye to that data which is the data data ai cloud all these superpowers coming together uh-huh so our premise is that the inferencing is going to be done at the edge much much of the data if not most of the data is going to stay at the edge yeah so this is what you're enabling through that integration provision heterogeneous combination of technologies correct I mean you know to use the extreme example that we talked about you know on stage earlier you know CERN has this massive amount of information that comes from the I think it's 40 million collisions a second or I may have my figures wrong and you cannot possibly store nor do you want to transmit that data and and so you you have to be applying AI to figure out what the good stuff is and there's no stream it's exactly and that solution exists in a myriad of applications you know the very you know simplistic one you're not going to send you know the picture of who's at your front door you know to a core data center to figure out if it's somebody in your family yeah you don't want to be doing that maybe not in the camera but certainly a lot closer because you just you know the network simply will not can't handle the capacity all right we got to go but but last word you know what are the takeaways from today what do you want our audience to remember from this event well I think you know I think it's just we continue to build on our memory and storage base to to move up the stack and add values in way that maybe storage subsystems like our our NAND SSD and 3d crosspoint that you know go a little further up the stack in terms of our gaining greater expertise in you know machine learning solutions or or the example with authentic of providing you know a broader solution including key management for how we secure the billions of devices they're gonna be at the edge touching all the bases Tom all right congratulations on all the hard work and it was great to see you again thanks guys Dave and Dave thank you and you keep right there but it will be back to wrap micron insight 2019 right after this short break from San Francisco you watching the cube

>>Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering my groin insight 2019 brought to you by micron. >>We're back at pier 27 in San Francisco. This is the cube, the leader in live tech coverage and we're covering micron insight 2019 I'm Dave Vellante with my cohost David Floyd and this event is kind of interesting. David, it basically intersperses cube interviews with big tent discussions, thought leadership, we've heard from automotive, healthcare and and 5g discussions and no Han is here. He's the vice president and CTO of the emerging business at Erickson. And you were just on a panel. Welcome to the cube. Thanks. Great to be here. You were talking about five G, we're going to talk about five G. so first of all, talking about the emerging business at Ericsson, >>your whole group, you know, so Ericsson, we, you know, 99 a lot of our business today has done what operators emerging business group, we're sort of looking at the intersection of industry, cloud computing, our traditional mobile network operator customers, and how do we, how do we put those together and look for new either products or business models. And really create something new for customers. >>So we tell him when he's talking about five G, everybody gets all excited. Certainly the technology community is excited about it. There's a whole value chain and an ecosystem that's that's pumping right along. The carriers are adopting and the users are just waiting. So what should we know about? >>So I, you know, I think there's a couple of different things. One is from a consumer perspective, you're definitely looking at faster, you know, better. All of the things we've got from the other GS at older things. You know, today, you know, faster downloads of movies. I think what we're, and I'm, I'm in the tech business, not in the prediction business, you know. So I think what we've learned from previous technologies is we almost don't know what the new applications are. We're trying to make the platform as easy as possible for developers to utilize what the network actually has to offer. So I think that's a big part of what we're trying to do. The other part is enhancing what you have today as a consumer is massive, but also industries is a huge pull on 5g. So we talked about industry four. Dot. Zero and really transforming industries and cutting the cables in production lines, allowing monitoring of systems that never happened before. >>A lot of use cases that can be out there. So a, I have a younger son of 22 and I look at my a bill every month. Yeah, I do have him downloading 10 times more data. It doesn't fill me with uh, duty or just the excise to carriers. I mean while we've seen with every, every end. And of course that was the question how much of a down, yeah, how much low is the price going to be on this baffled breeze you go to invest an awful lot. Absolutely. So I mean we're going to see it tens, 10 orders of magnitude cheaper. So even as it is now with 4g, we're seeing a lot of the unlimited plans coming available and so on. I think we're just going to see more of that. And then the question, actually a big question for five G is what will you pay for? >>You know, if we talk about age compute and low latency, if you're a gamer and I can give you X milliseconds of latency versus you know, a two X milliseconds, how much would you pay for that? So I think what we know at the moment is people will pay for that. We don't know exactly how much, and that's where you need the ecosystem and you need to get stuff out there. And actually some of the economic impact is fuzzy. But in thinking past, there's no prologue. But if you think about the other GS as they sort of were adopted, what can we learn from those? And how do you think five G will be different in terms of its adoption and economic impact? Let's say if you look at adoption, I mean just a number of contracts. We have the number of deployments we have globally, just off the charts in terms of where we are with 4g Korea launched and a few months ago, just just before the summer, within two months they had a million 5g subscribers with smart phones in their eyes and two months later they added a second million subscribers. >>I mean for a market to go from zero to that in, in that period of time with smartphones, if we go back to 4g, all of that was with dongles and sort of hotspots on routers, you know, so to jump directly to smartphones, huge adoption, it's going to happen fast. Well what do you, what are the sequence, what's the sequence of events that have to occur for adoption to really take off? >> So obviously you need to build out the networks and the operators are doing that are pretty high speed. You need to have the devices ready and all the devices. Now it's not like you have a 5g only device. It's obviously capable of all the four G things. And then it's better when you have 5g. So the devices are going to come and take and fast. So all your new devices, most of the high end devices have 5g capability already in there. >>Um, and then the networks just getting built out more and more. And then of course the application developers actually understanding how can I take advantage of those new capabilities? And then you'll start to see, okay, wow, you know, I didn't, this wasn't possible before. It's not just a faster download. It's really, there's just new experiences happening >> from a development standpoint. How much access do they have to the technology? Do they have to wait until this is all built out? Obviously not, but, but, but what's the status of sort of the devs? So we're, we're trying to, and we're working with a lot of the ecosystem. We have, we call it the D 15 studio in our Santa Clara office. We're bringing developers in there and really trying to understand, because you know, we talk Telekom as well. So we want to expose things. We want to understand, do you know what variable, if we say quality of service, what does that mean for you? You know, how do you translate that? So, and we're working with, you know, the cloud players where to developers live to some extent to bring in that ecosystem and understand how it all plays together. So >>ahead. Yup. Um, so if really, if you're looking at it longterm, obviously it's going to happen, but the experience is as I go around the States, is that you've got all these different four G three GS edges still in a very, very patchy a level of it. Is this going to be different? Is this going to actually go into different places because there's a big investment that has to be made, a lot of things very close together. Yes, yes. That seems to be a recipe for everything being or right in the cities. But as soon as you go outside the urban areas, it's going to be very patchy. How does that compare, for example, with Elon Musk's idea of a doing stuff from the sky? >>Well, everything comes down to economics. So you know, it's, it's obviously you're going to have denser deployments in the cities, then you are in the countryside and so on. One of the big advantages would 5g is am, and not to get too deep into the technical part, but you can use all the spectrum that's available. And spectrum is super important as we get, you know, when we have lower frequency spectrum, you can cover a hundred miles Wade, one base station as you get to the millimeter wave, which is you get super high bandwidth, then you're add hundreds of meters. Yeah. And so obviously one is more suitable for a rural environment, the other is more suitable for. So for an urban environment, so obviously having those working together in one technology allows you to deploy everything and get the benefits in a much broader area than we had for any of the previous. >>There's choice there in terms of how you deploy or, or leverage the spectrum. So you're saying that the higher performance end of the spectrum, it's gonna require a greater density of other components. And absolutely. When people talk about oil, there's going to be a lot more distributed, you know, pieces of the five G network that has to get built out. So who does that? Who's putting those pieces of the value chain in? So different players, obviously the mobile network operators, the 18 Ts and Verizons of the world are doing a lot of the heavy lifting and know what our support to actually put the, the radios and the towers in place. And then there's an edge compute piece as well, which is different players are putting in that. Um, so, so a lot of that infrastructure has been done. I think one thing that we've been pushing quite a lot, all our install base of radios is um, 5g upgradable via software. >>So that means that a lot of the already installed, uh, radios and infrastructure, you're just softer upgrade, you know, an hour later it's now 5g ready. So I think that's a big piece of basin. Back to your question of how quickly and and can reach all those areas, are there any specific commercial blockers that you see, um, that you're thinking through? I am I, I think the, just understanding some of the more challenging when you look at, if you're deploying edge compute and you have to invest billions and really getting that far out to the edge, I think there's some questions still there. Like I said, how much would you pay for 20 milliseconds versus 15 milliseconds. And that might sound like a lot, but that's a lot of extra infrastructure you would need to put out. So I think that's still being worked true. >>And obviously some of that will happen quicker in a downtown San Francisco than it will in a, you know, middle of Nevada plays well and the others that you've mentioned before, it's unclear what new applications are going to emerge here. And so it's almost like build it and they will come and then we'll figure it out and then we'll figure out how to charge for it. Like you say the gamers, how much will they pay for it? Yeah, so those are some of the uncertainties but they'll shake themselves out. So absolutely. I was a pretty smart about doing. What about micron and the role of memory players and storage players? How will this affect them? Eight say a huge opportunity when you ah, yeah, I mean invest no and Bardy hats. >> Yeah, I think it's a, when you look at the number of devices and, okay, what's the device? >>The devices are smartphone. Well the devices now your car, it's every IOT device and down to your toaster and all the crazy stuff people are talking about too. I mean to every industrial application tool that age, computers. So you're distributing now a lot of different compute memory storage across different parts of the network. So I mean they talked earlier in the panel about phones having terabytes of data. You know, it's in, it's just unimaginable. The amount of data storage. Remember you're going to need in a vehicle, you know, they're looking at terabytes per hour of data and then how much of that should they shift off the vehicle? How much did it keep there? So huge opportunity. >> Well, I'd be willing to pay for, um, some memory in my appliances. They tell me when they're going to break. I just got a new dishwasher and I can program it with my, my remote. I don't want to program. I just want to know that on Thanksgiving morning it was that it works. But in a week before it's going to break, I want to know so I can deal with vending and maintenance. That's a big use case. Can't wait until that happens. The last question, so >>I was going to be, I was following up on that last point you were making. Um, uh, so again, this cost of everything, this, this value that you're going to get out of it. Um, it seems to me that, um, that this is gonna take a long time to push out. Um, and, and before it actually down. And people will actually know whether they can pay for this. And then one thing in particular is there's a lot of resistance in, in the, in the States anyway, to all of these devices being put very, very close, you know, to the, to, to it for example, putting all the devices down, download a row for example, that, that, that seems to be very expensive and, and going to get a lot of reaction from consumers is, is that not the case? >>So I actually, we're not seeing it that much. I mean if you look across the globe, um, China obviously is a slightly unique situation. Massive deployments already happening there. Like I said, Southeast Asia, South Korea being among the, you know, the forefront, big deployments already there. And we're seeing big pull from industries already and the operators here in U S are announcing new cities, you know, every month practically. So they are really full on into this. And to some extent it's, it's really just, there's a capacity need to have the spectrum. They need to make the investments and they're, they're doing it as we speak. >>So I think it depends on me. Why was it a meeting the other day in Boston with a lot of city officials and folks that worked for the mayor's office? They're envisioning Boston, you know, for the next 50 years, smart cities and five G was like, if you did a word cloud 5g was that the number one topic? You know, we talked earlier about sports stadiums. You can see that being, you know, use cases going to be these >>hotspots where it's of very, very high >>of the city in this case in Boston's case are they're going to invest, right? And they're gonna think that's going to be a differentiator for cities. >>You have this amazing infrastructure, you know, five G infrastructure that allows you to take advantage of that, be it just from, they talked about traffic congestion and what the city can do and then what the businesses and the consumers can do in that area that that can end up being a differentiator for innovation companies going there and so on. >>Right. All right. We're going to go before they blow us out. No, thanks very much for coming to the queue very much. All right, great. To have you on. I keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back with our next guest after this short break. You're watching the cube live from micron insight 2019 from San Francisco right back.

>>Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering micron insight 2019 brought to you by micron. >>We'll come back to San Francisco. Everybody wears pier 27. This is the queue. We're following micron insight 2019. Dave Volante with David flora. Theresa Kelly is here. She is the vice president of the CPG consumer products group at my country. So thanks for running over to the cube for a moment. >>Glad to be here. Thank you. So tell us about CPG. What's the, what's the scope? >> So CPG is a consumer products group. We have a crucial Grande that's been around for 23 years. Uh, we sell to you and you and me. And we provide SSD solutions and DRAM solutions. So it could be someone upgrading their computer, it can be someone that is trying to be a gamer because we have high performance DRAM. And today we announced we broke the world record. Yeah. So with a, an AMD platform and ASIS, uh, a team. So the three teams, partners, so pretty excited about that. Tell us about the hard news. What are the announcements that you made? So I just mentioned that we broke the record. So we were able to achieve a, a speed of 6,024 mega transfers with the AMD, um, partnership. And as soon as, so pretty excited about that because that just shows we are, you know, a vertically integrated company and we're great. We've got great product out there and we provide that to the gamers out there and are able to give a group a solution both at the mainstream and the high end performance. >> And then that's a major growth area. That game is, yes, it is a couple of these shows. Yes, yes. Different normal than number audiences they get in person and online. So you got it. >>So when we started the cube, we started on Justin TV, which became, >>which we used to get so much traffic. We're like, where's all this traffic coming from? You know, what it was, it was the gamers, so. Huh. What's the importance of gaming? Well, let's start, >> you mentioned Twitch. We've got one of the teams we sponsor that's a big Twitch, uh, following up there, the energy team. And so they're one of the, uh, both set better happening. So, you know, from a gaming perspective, it, it, it is a very, you know, one of the fastest growing, uh, consumer DRAM markets. And it is something that allows us to put both DRAM and SSD out there to the consumer. We sell to the consumer. We also partner with those that make those platforms. You know, it could be someone upgrading a computer or um, someone that's buying it in the store. So pretty excited about because we have both solutions and are, are both vertically integrated, which no one else has. >>Some gamers need. They need memory, they need need. Joe's about more about the, the crucial brand. You know, you guys are amplifying that know what's behind the brand and what's the brand promise. Yeah, crucial is um, having met with some friends yesterday, they said, you are a trusted brand. We know we're gonna get quality product from you. We ask what do we know now? And we do, we deliver on what we say. We don't make hype news. We very much are able to say we're going to deliver such a product and, and bring that back to you. And we're known for great customer support too. We've spent time over the past 12 months continuing to build out a portfolio for our consumers and they've, the response has been great. Both again on the SSD side and on the DRAM side. So it is, it's a brand that is worldwide. We're across the world. We sell places like Amazon but also a lot in Europe and in Asia. There's still a lot of retail, so we saw to retail too and or@crucial.com so we're provide solutions. >>Well it's good. Yeah. Consumer spending is powering our economy right now, so that's great. Last question is what should we expect going forward? You know, give us some guideposts. >>So you know, we have, as with the announcements today, I mentioned, I hadn't mentioned that the exit was announced today. It's our portable SSD almost twice as fast as any SSD portable SSD out there with that price point. So pretty excited for that. Again, giving great, you know, value for our money with our vertical integration. And we definitely have, um, insights into wine to build, uh, a broader portfolio in time for our consumers and we look to them and where the market's going to provide the solutions. And as mentioned, gaming is very important to us, so we intend to continue to have investments there too. >>Love, it sure is the gift that keeps on giving, right? We keep increasing capacities, lowering costs, and now increasing performance. Theresa, thanks very much for coming on the. Okay. Give right there. We be back shortly. Is this the cube from micron inside 2019.

>>live from San Francisco. It's the Q covering Micron Insight 2019 to You by Micron. >>Welcome back, everybody. We hear a Pier 27 in San Francisco. Beautiful day. David Floor is my co host on Day Volante, and this is Micron Inside. 2019. Jeff Baylor is here. He's the corporate vice president of the embedded business unit at Micron. Jeff, great to see you again. >>Thank you. Nice to be here >>so love to talk about autos. I o. T Edge. Use cases to talk about the focus of your team. Let's start there. Yeah, >>sure. So the embedded business to point. It's absolutely focused on the automotive industry's way. Call industrial markets. So factory automation, surveillance and stolen a swell as a consumer electronics businesses on we're really in across all those sort of focused on how connectivity and compute is changing inside of those. And, of course, how that drives memory. >>I mean, yeah, memory and storage. They hide in places that we use every day. You don't see them, but if they weren't there, you wouldn't be able to use all these devices. They wouldn't be as life changing as they are. So you know you mentioned some of the consumer stuff. You know what the big trends that are driving your business? Well, I do >>think it is absolutely. That's sort of the ubiquity of connectivity. First of all, and then, sort of the ubiquity of compute has enabled all of these what used to be sort of isolated applications to now be connected and doing a whole lot more analytics inside that machine. Do you think about intelligence in your thermostat on the wall? You think about intelligence, obviously, in the automotive business, where safety features and so on are using so much more electron ICs and a I machine learning. And that's happening really in every application, whether it's the smart speakers at home, voice control on your TV and so on and so forth. All of those drive more intelligence, more connectivity and then more memory and storage behind that. >>When people talk about automotive, of course, everybody wants to talk about autonomous vehicles. I love to talk about autonomous vehicles, but there's so much action going on in today's vehicles dozens and dozens of microprocessors throwing off all kinds of data. So give us the update on the automotive industry. >>Yeah, you're exactly right. I mean, autonomous gets the headlines and it will for several more years just be headlines more or less right? And the real story is what we call eight ass or advanced driver assistant system. So things like lane departure warning, lane departure, keeping things like auto emergency braking those those sort of much simpler, easier problems to solve are still very compute intensive on. So are driving a huge growth and electronics on memory of storage inside the car. The other major part of the car market in the automotive market is what we call infotainment, sort of the center console. More and more large screens going into that more high function capabilities being integrated in that whether it's navigation or streaming media service is and all of those air driving again a much richer mix that's required >>for those applications. I was at the arm conference and they were talking about automotive and some of the challenges, one of the most fascinating areas they were talking about. How do you make something that will last for 20 years in the car on make it such that if it does go wrong that it that it could recover seamless less. Can you talk about some of the technologies that >>are sort of two parts to that? Unpack a little bit? First through? What does it take to succeed in automotive? First of all, it's all about quality. Yeah, right. It is quality, quality, quality location, location, location. It's quality. It's it's reducing and eliminating defense fundamentally at the end of the day and so inside of our process. Design inside of our technology designed our product designs. Our product manufacturing flows are all designed to sort of fundamentally improve and continue to improve the quality level because at the end of the day, that is what what makes or breaks you in the car. As soon as you solve that, you know, small problem. Next problem is longevity and stability of that solution, because the design cycle itself is shortening and automotive. But it's a very long design cycle, and then the life cycle in automotive is still very, very long. I mean, the average car on the road in the U. S. Is 12 or 15 years old, right, and that needs to both continue to be viable but also often need toe continue shipping that product. It's gonna shipment volumes or have spares and replace. So So we have a strategy that sort of focused on both bringing those leading edge technologies that Micron has into automotive as soon as possible and that timeline is shrinking. But then also having a very long life manufacturing strategy to continue to provide those for so long. >>So you're certainly a leader in automotive. You might even be the leader. I'm not sure I have the data, but what is it you mentioned? You know, quality and those other factors. What is it that's allowing you to do so well in automotive? >>So So we are the beater for sure. We're about 40% market share, which is a little more than three times as big as the nearest competitors, right, So leader by far, really an automotive. And it's been a very long time that we're in this industry and very focused on. So it is. It is about the product mix and bringing in particular lately leading edge technology into that story. You know, we are at the very beginnings of LP five, the low power GDR five generation, where the very beginnings of that rolling out into mobile applications, its primary markets at the same time, almost literally the same time. Way air sampling and providing that into our automotive customers and our automotive partners to start beginning building their systems around L P. Five. So that time to adopt leading edge technology is rowing is shrinking very rapidly. And so we're able to provide that leading edge Tech started, coupled with that long life solution and then one of the areas, when you think about being in a 40% market share position, way air investing tremendously in sort of partnering with the customers around, essentially defining and driving the innovation that they need to deliver So way have a number of labs that we've established customer facing labs that were able to bring customers and even our customers customers. So the Auto am is directly into those labs to start looking at usage models and architectural sort of feasibility and optimization kinds of things that we could then plan into our road map to follow two or three years later. After that, >>a lot of domain expertise there, so tremendous I said the Derrick Dicker that Micron has a very large observation space. You sell to a lot of different channels and I want to ask you about industrial I ot David night. We spent a lot of time in the Enterprise and we see a lot of I t company saying, Hey, here's a box. We're gonna throw it over. We're gonna go dominate the edge anywhere you talkto operations, technology, professions there like No, we're talking about machines and equipment and it's like this whole different parlance and language. So what are you seeing? Just in terms of the ecosystem, how it's developing the sort of analog going to digital And that whole explosion? Yeah, >>again, Industrial is extremely broad market, and it means a 1,000,000,000 things toe people. Right? So So, one of the first things we have to do is sort of narrow the field a little bit, at least into specific verticals and specific areas. Way have the right product mix and opportunity, right? So, for example, in the in the space of factory automation, it's a little bit what you're just saying the operational technology guys are trying to figure out how they're gonna drive efficiency, drive productivity inside a factory on, and that is often a question of instrument ing, and putting in my crown is doing a lot of this sort of smart manufacturing deployment. Putting this sensor network multiple cameras, multiple high resolution cameras, audio sensors, accelerometers, sort of sensors and capturing all of that sensor data to Dr Things like better predictive maintenance, better sort of yield detection or excursion detection kind of capability. So you could tell this machine, you know, seven days, five days out of the week Sounds like this. But last night at 10 o'clock, it started sounding different way. Don't know what it means necessarily, but we can detect that. And that's where all of the A I and Machine Learning is now being applied to say. And that means it's due for a P M. About this particular portion of >>what about security at the edge, obviously a hot topic in the Enterprise on every C. I ose mind what's happening with security in Io ti industrial out in the edge. Yeah, I think >>to some extent, security in the I. O. T. I think is, is why I ot is where it is in the hype cycles. Maybe it's sort of still at the bottom of one of these types cycles, meaning solving that increasing security problem, that cyber security problem that the edge is really a big problem. You saw you know the hacks a few years back of the Jeep charity. You saw the hack two years back on surveillance cameras. All these cameras moving toe i p surveillance cameras means they're now connected and open to the world. Dispersed. He just announced last week in a report that basically showed I ot specific hacks up seven fold or seven fold this year after being up tenfold last year. So it's absolutely a growing problem for people thinking about deploying again. Connectivity is a great tool in a great weapon, Depending. And I was so so. One of my crown is doing is is way. >>Have a >>solution called authentic, which is essentially a cybersecurity, is a secure element built into the non volatile memory that goes in each one of these systems. So today, security is not a one chip problem. It is a full and and system problem. And so what we're tryingto build with that is the capability at a very sort of lowest level in the system right where the code is right where the four part of the system is to protect that in the memory itself and sort of a test that that is safe and secure. And then the system can build out about around that. And that sort of simple boot device, in the case of a nor device or Anand device is in every embedded application >>right in the world, >>right? I mean, you think about you go back a long way, Stuxnet. You know, 10 plus years ago with a seaman's controller, which was the and now you think about fast forward, how much Maur infrastructure is out there? How much more complicated it is, It's ah, it's a scary situation is Oh, it is so that we think that's a >>big opportunity. And we're making the announcement later, uh, later in the show today, on an extension of what we're doing already in that space. >>I know you're working with other vendors. People like >>me are worry with Yes, >>it is really >>an end to end. >>This is really an end to an an ecosystem >>activity, for sure, because again, arm is a great example. You know, all of the S o. C. Vendors. You know, everybody in this industry has some slice of the of the rules. Let's say to figure out how they're going to secure this system and we're tryingto build a basic building block that they can then build on >>that when we started this morning was really quiet. But the crowd is rolling in. Now there's a buzz that you can hear, hear. The key was excited to be here, Jeff. Thanks very much for coming on. The king here to see you again. >>Very much nicer here. >>All right. Keep it right to everybody. We're gonna be taking a short break. We'll be back. Day long coverage wall to Wall of Micron inside. 2019. You're watching the cube.

>>Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering my groin. Insight 2019 brought to you by micron. >>Welcome back to pier 27 in San Francisco. I'm your host Dave Vellante with my cohost David foyer and this is the cube, the leader in live tech coverage. This is our live coverage of micron insight 2019 we were here last year talking about some of the big picture trends. Derek ticker is here, he's the general manager and vice president of the storage business unit at micro and great to see you again. Thank you so much for having me here. Welcome. So you know we talk about the super powers a lot, you know, cloud data, AI and these new workloads that are coming in. And this, this, I was talking to David earlier in our kickoff like how real is AI? And it feels like it's real. It's not just a bunch of vendor industry hype and it comes in a lot of different forms. Derek, what are you seeing in terms of the new workloads and the big trends in artificial intelligence? >>I think just on the, on the front end, you guys are absolutely right. The, the role of artificial intelligence in the world is, uh, is absolutely transformational. I was sitting in a meeting in the last couple of days and somebody was walking through a storyline that I have to share with you. That's a perfect example of why this is becoming mainstream. In Southern California at a children's hospital, there were a set of parents that had a few days old baby and this baby was going through seizures and no one could figure out what it was. And during the periods of time of the seizure, the child's brain activity was zero. There was no brain activity whatsoever. And what they did is they performed a CT scan, found nothing, check for infections, found nothing. And can you imagine a parent just sitting there dealing with their child and that situation, you feel hopeless. >>This particular institution is so much on the bleeding edge. They've been investing in personalized medicine and essentially what they were able to do was extract a sample of blood from that sample of blood within a matter of minutes. They were able to run an algorithm that could sift through 5 million genetic variants to go find a potential match for a genetic variant that existed within this child. They found one that was 0.01% of the population found a tiny, tiny, call it a less than a needle in the haystack. And what they were able to do is translate that actual insight into a treatment. And that treatment wasn't invasive. It didn't involve surgery. It involves supplements and providing this shower, just the nutrients that he needed to combat this genetic variant. But all of this was enabled through technology and through artificial intelligence in general. And a big part of the show that we're here at today is to talk about the industry coming together and discussing what are the great advances that are happening in that domain. >>It's just, it's super exciting to see something that touches that close to our life. I love that story and that's, that's why I love this event. I mean, well, obviously micron memories, you know, DRAM, NAND, et cetera, et cetera. But this event is all about connecting to the impacts on our lives. You take, you take that, I used to ask this question a lot of when will machines be able to make better diagnoses than, than doctors. And I think, you know, a lot people say, well they already can, but the real answer is it's really about the augmentation. Yeah. You know, machines helping doctors get to that, you know, very, you know, uh, a small probability 0.1001% yes. And it'd be able to act on it. That's really how AI is affecting our lives every day. >> Wholeheartedly agree. And actually that's a, that's a big part of our mission. >>Our mission is to transform how the world uses information to enrich life. That's the heart and soul of what you just described. Yeah. And we're actually, we're super excited about what we see happening in storage as a result of this. Um, one of the, one of the things that we've noticed as we've gotten engaged with a broad host of customers in the industry is that there's a lot of focus on artificial intelligence workloads being handled based on memory and memory bandwidth and larger amounts of memory being required. If you look at systems of today versus systems of tomorrow, based on the types of workloads that are evolving from machine learning, the need for DRAM is growing dramatically. Multiple factors, we see that, but what nobody ever talks about or rarely talks about is what's going on in the storage subsystem and one of the biggest issues that we've found over time or challenges that exist is as you look at the AI workloads going back to 2014 the storage bandwidth required was a few megabytes per second and called tens of, but if you just look every year, over time we're exceeding at gigabyte, two gigabytes of bandwidth required out of the storage subsystem. >>Forget the memory. The storage is being used as a cash in it flushes, but once you get into a case where you actually want to do more work on a given asset, which of course everybody wants to do from a TCO perspective, you need super high performance and capability. One of the things that that we uncovered was by delivering an SSD. This is our 9,300 drive. We actually balanced both the read IOPS and the ride IOPS at three gigs per second. And what we allow to have happened is not just what you can imagine as almost sequential work. You load up a bunch of data into a, into a training machine, the machine goes and processes on it, comes back with a result, load more data in by actually having a balanced read and write a model. Your ingest times go faster. So while you're working on a sequence, you can actually ingest more data into the system and it creates this overall efficiency. And it's these types of things that I think provided a great opportunity for innovation in the storage domain for these types of that's working >> requiring new architectures in storage, right? I mean, yeah, >>I mean, th th so one of the things that's happened in, in bringing SSDs in is that the old protocols were very slow, etc. And now we all the new protocols within in Vme and potentially even more new protocols coming in, uh, into this area. What's micron? What, how is micron making this thing happen? This speed that's gonna provide these insights? >>It's a fan fan. Fantastic question and you're absolutely right. The, the world of standards is something that we found over the course of time. If you can get a group of industry players wrapped around a given set of standards, you can create a large enough market and then people can innovate on top of that. And for us in the, in the storage domain, the big transitions had been in Sada and NBME. You see that happening today when we talked a little bit about maybe a teaser for what's coming a little later at, at our event, um, in some of the broader areas in the market, we're talking about how fabrics attach storage and infrastructure. And interestingly enough, where people are innovating quite a bit right now is around using the NBME infrastructure over fabrics themselves, which allows for shared storage across a network as opposed to just within a given server there. >>There's some fantastic companies that are out there that are actually delivering both software stacks and hardware accelerators to take advantage of existing NBME SSDs. But the protocol itself gets preserved. But then they can share these SSDs over a network, which takes a scenario where before you were locked with your storage stranded within a server and now you can actually distribute more broad. It's amazing difference, isn't it at that potential of looking at data over as broad an area as you want to. Absolutely. And being able to address it directly and having it done with standards and then having it done with low enough latency such that you aren't feeling severely disadvantaged, taking that SSD out of a box and making it available across a broad network. So you guys have a huge observation space. Uh, you sell storage to the enterprise, you sell storage to the cloud everywhere. >>I want to ask you about the macro because when you look at the traditional storage suppliers, you know, some of them are struggling right now. There aren't many guys that are really growing and gaining share because the cloud is eating away at that. You guys sell to the cloud. So that's fine. Moving, you know, arms dealer, whoever wins it may the best man win. Um, but, but at the same time, customers have ingested so much all flash. It's giving them head room and so they're like, Hey, I'm good for awhile. I used to have this spinning disc. I'd throw spinning disc at it at the problem till I said, give me performance headroom. That has changed. Now we certainly expect a couple of things that that will catch up and there'll be another step function. But there's also elasticity. Yes. Uh, you saw for instance, pure storage last quarter said, wow, hit the price dropped so fast, it actually hurt our revenues. >>And you'd say, well, wait a minute. If the price drops, we want people to buy more. There's no question that they will. It just didn't happen fast enough from the quarter. All of these interesting rip currents going on. I wonder what you're seeing in terms of the overall macro. Yeah. It's actually a fantastic question. If you go back in time and you look at the number of sequential quarters, when we had ASP decreases across the industry, it was more than six. And the duration from peak to trough on the spot markets was high double digit percentages. Not many markets go through that type of a transition. But as you suggested, there's this notion of elasticity that exists, which is once the price gets below a certain threshold, all of a sudden new markets open up. And we're seeing that happen today. We're seeing that happen in the client space. >>So, so these devices actually, they're going through this transition where companies are actually saying, you know what, we're going to design out the hard drive cages for all platforms across our portfolio going into the future. That's happening now. And it's happening largely because these price points are enabling that, that situation and the enterprise a similar nature in terms of average capacities and drives being deployed over time. So it's, I told you, I think the last time we saw John, I told just one of the most exciting times to be in the memory and storage industry. I'll hold true to that today. I, I'm super excited about it, but I just bought a new laptop and, and you know, I have, you know, a half a half a terabyte today and they said for 200 bucks you can get a terabyte. Yes. And so I said, Oh wow, I could take everything from 1983 and bring it, bring it over. >>Yeah. Interestingly, it was back ordered, you know, so I think, wow, it am I the only one, but this is going to happen. I mean, everybody's going to have, you know, make the price lower. Boom. They'll buy more. We, we, we believe that to be the case for the foreseeable future. Okay. Do you see yourself going in more into the capacity market as well with SSTs and I mean, this, this, this drop, let's do big opportunity or, yeah. Actually, you know, one of the areas that we feel particularly privileged to be able to, to engage in is the, the use of QLC technology, right. You know, quad level solar for bits per cell technology. We've integrated this into a family of, uh, of SSDs for the enterprise, or interestingly enough, we have an opportunity to displace hard drives at an even faster rate because the core capability of the products are more power efficient. >>They've got equal to, or better performance than existing hard drives. And when you look at the TCO across a Reed intensive workloads, it's actually, it's a no brainer to go replace those HDD workloads in the client space. There's segments of the market where we're seeing QLC to play today for higher, higher capacity value segments. And then there's another segment for performance. So it's actually each segment is opening up in a more dramatic way. So the last question, I know you got some announcements today. They haven't hit the wire yet, but what, can you show us a little leg, Derrick? What can you tell us? So I, I'll, I'll give you this much. The, um, the market today, if you go look in the enterprise segment is essentially NBME and SATA and SAS. And if you look at MDME in 20 2019 essential wearing crossover on a gigabyte basis, right? >>And it's gonna grow. It's gonna continue to grow. I mentioned earlier the 9,300 product that we use for machine learning, AI workloads, super high performance. There's a segment of the market that we haven't announced products in today that is a, a a mainstream portion of that market that looks very, very interesting to us. In addition, we can never forget that transitions in the enterprise take a really long time, right, and Sada is going to be around for a long time. It may be 15% of the market and 10% out a few years, but our customers are being very clear. We're going to continue to ship Satta for an extended period of time. The beautiful thing about about micron is we have wonderful 96 layer technology. There's a need in the market and both of the segments I described, and that's about as much as I can give you, I don't bet against data. Derek, thanks very much for coming on. Thank you guys so much. You're welcome. There's a lot of facts. Keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back at micron insight 2019 from San Francisco. You're watching the cube.

>>live from San Francisco. It's the Q covering Micron Insight 2019 to You by Micron. >>We're back to Pier 27 in lovely San Francisco, Everybody. I'm Dave a lot with my co host, David Floy Er and you're watching the Cube, the leader and live tech coverage. Evan cursed Ellis here. He's a social digital influencer. First time in the Cube. Evan, Great to see you. >>Thanks for having me. First time's the best. >>You Very well. And it is beautiful. Out him in October is the best month in San Francisco. Way better way warmer than July. I mean, you live out here. Holy cow. All right, let's get right into it. You're just fresh off of mobile work. World Congress down in L. A. >>This morning. Yeah, five g on the brain's >>s. So what do we need to know about five g? You >>know, I think my big takeaway as an industry observer is that five g Israel, and it's now I mean, we've seen 5 10 years, maybe of hype, an expectation and marketing buzz and even spin. But I think we're now in the business of practical deployments, scaling rollouts of networks and that's, you know, as a industry observers, quite exciting. >>So what is five g mean for the average user? I mean, is it gonna be like going from dial up toe, high speed Internet or, you know, it's gonna be interesting. >>The average user, I think we'll experience, you know, like a 10 x increase in their current experience on mobile in terms of uploads and downloads and speed and Leighton see, And that kind of thing, which is super exciting, it's it's gonna blow people's mind. >>An ex stoked to get a 10 extra. When can I get this? >>It's when and it's where, right? I mean, if you look at how these networks are evolving, there are hundreds of thousands of small cells of base stations that have to be deployed naturally to get five G ubiquitous across the country. So it's it's when it's where it's how. But we're here. We're at the starting point and look for the next years and months ahead to see that riel attraction. >>If I look now when I travel around the country, I still have four G. I still have three g. I still have edge. I have a ll the old ones are still there, and it's taken forever, even just to get to 40. So isn't lesson. Isn't the rollout of this going to take a long time ago or 10 year horizon? >>I think, to get ubiquitous coverage indoor, outdoor, suburban, urban, rural It's going to take 10 years. But if you look at those hot spots that generate a lot of activity, whether it's, you know, indoor coverage in the Enterprise, whether it's, you know, the Bruins playing in Boston Garden I mean those air where five G is really going to come into play first and then it's going to sort of go outside of those urban dense areas. >>You mean like the fan experience in the fan experience in the venue >>is huge? I mean, if you go to any you know, baseball, basketball, football game, you know what the experience is like Pretty pretty bad, right? So horrible. So those kind of hot spots are ripe for five g like right away today. Now, >>so by the way, David, sometimes I get five g on my that's right, and I feel like it's fake. Five years like HD ready. What's that all about? Well, you know, >>these networks evolve, and so the carriers are maximizing for G, including biggest speed on four G and five. Gene is really if overlay to these existing networks. And so, as you get your next Samsung, you know five G enabled devices. Apple next year comes out with a five G iPad. You'll then begin to use. The service is as you use your existing device. >>Can you help us understand the fundamental architecture of five G? My understanding is it's, you know, no basis more distributed on. That's part of the reason why it's taking so long to roll out. But what do we need to know about that E? >>I think it's a brand new editor interface. So if you think about the current radio on for G, they reinvented the wheel with five G, which means you can support a huge number of endpoints of I o. T devices of wearables of home access points. And so it enables almost a 10 to 100 ex war devices in terms of scale. So while the end user may think this is business as usual, what's really happening on the network side is pretty revolutionary And once the networks are primed and built and ready, what's gonna be happening on the device side is gonna be really extraordinary. You're talking about a K A video on a mobile device or augmented reality through in new kinds of glasses. And so it's sort of a chicken and a little bit. You know what? She's gonna come first, the network or the incredible new devices. So we're seeing now the network's being put in place for those wave of devices, >>which makes sense. Device manufactures don't want over rotate into something that's not quite. >>But if you look at the network, it's you have to have a lot of device is very close to each other. I in my area that all these the holdings holding these hearings about radiation, everything else like that, which is never, never really a problem unless you're underneath. >>Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of fun, you know, fear, uncertainty around five G. >>Yeah, and I'm just the practical thing. You gotta have all of these lots of these very close in the The exposure to having a gap of some sort is pretty high. >>Yeah, I think it's an issue of frequencies as well. Right now, we're seeing very high frequency five deployed for those dense urban suburban areas. We're going to Seymour Spectrum rolled out next year. The FCC is putting out new auction so you'll see lower bit rate five g rolled out for suburban and rural areas. So it's a It's a work in progress, but the fact that we have first devices first silicon for software first networks. It's kind of a big inflection >>point, but some bumps. I'm inferring this ATT the back end. It could be a lot of machine to machine communications, so that's kind of sets up this whole coyote and an edge discussion. And of course, that means more data. What can you tell us about how that's going to affect really the amount of data and how we use that data? >>The data explosion is extraordinary. I mean, we experience this as early adopters here at the table every day, and so no one's ever said, you know, my network is fast enough is good enough, secure enough. There's always that insatiable appetite now, given the connected world in which we live. And so it's not just the network speed it's the input output of the device. I mean, we have Leighton see that frankly, from these networks operates at the speed of the human brain, you know, in in milliseconds, in terms of input output on the network. And so that's really gonna change the user experience to when the way you do gaming or collaboration or video conferencing video calls and all these service is we use today will be much more tuned to how we live and work. >>So dial upto high speed Internet obvious Are you want? I'll update you say you go back. I'm also I know remember this stuff But that was a significant change. Obvious step change, really a step function. Exactly. But subsequent to that it was I could doom. Or but it was just so much more data and acts were flowing through the network that it really didn't change the experience a little bit. Maybe, actually, you know, be careful. I watched the Patriots game on the plane on the NFL app on the way out here, which could probably have done a year or two ago, but so that was that's goodness. But generally speaking, the experience is substantially similar. Will you said a 10 X before? Will the user actually see a difference like that kind of dial up to high speed step function? Or is it going to be sort of a slow roll? >>I think the user will see a big a big improvement because of the efficiencies of the network and the way in which data is kind of throttled and limited. Today, with three and four for G networks, I think more interestingly, is how businesses and enterprises and sm bees will consume. Five g. I mean, there are a lot of antiquated networks out there, whether it's legacy wired Network, D S. L. Whether it's, you know, crappy WiFi that we all experience in hotel rooms, five g has the opportunity to come in and really displace all of that legacy crap that that's in our networks and give users in those enterprises hotels, venues, a brand new experience. And when's the last time you had a bad hotel? WiFi, for the idea of, of getting rid of a legacy network and delivering those high speed service is from a public network. It's her Private networking is a really exciting opportunity for the carriers and, really, for the B two B enterprise. >>Well, the technology suppliers are pumped about their pumped and their >>look at their profitability, their revenue, their sales. Everything's up. >>Well, the thing is that that is, the carriers, like you say they have no choice but to remain competitive. They have to consume. They have to spend more >>on what a great time in the mobile industry. I mean to be a consumer of devices and service is, I mean, the consumers that businesses are winning in this march. >>So tell us about Mobile World Congress. What was the vibe? It was >>very buzzy. I mean, there were lots of Rhea World applications on display, whether wearable devices for health care and hospital T applications. There were examples of remote controlled autonomous shipping and autonomous trucking monitored, supervised with five G. There were examples of vehicle to vehicle communications for accident, safety purposes being deployed in the next generation of cars baked in, and so five. He's gotten very practical. Now it's like, Okay, we've built this network, we have silicon, we have software we have storage memory out of we deploy it so is very focused on deployment usage and an application. >>If you take that one of automotive, for example, if you're a god, health and life on your If you If you can't guarantee that you've got connectivity toe, what's the value wouldn't do? For example, wouldn't you prefer vehicle to vehicle direct communication, as opposed to going outside to some much faster? >>Exactly. Exactly. And there's a new technology called vehicle Be two extra people vehicle standards that are being baked so that that's not funny. It's based on the five of the family of standards, and so one of the technologies within the five G family is vehicle to vehicle. Qualcomm's doing some amazing work there. And once the automobile manufacturers baked that technology into cars, the car manufacturers can then build in vehicle avoidance, vehicle collision technology and so forth. >>So I'm worried that was some talk about a I right? I mean, lots of talk that mobile world Congress, you're gonna hear a lot about here. What about the ecosystem that's emerging to support five G? There's gotta be a whole value chain specialized chips. I mean, obviously, micron, you know? Yeah, you know, the >>whole supply chain has to come together and Micron powering all of these devices with memory and storage to the application developers to the O E ems to the network providers. And so that ecosystem is getting really baked, fully baked and and integrated. And that was on display at MWC, too. So all these things are coming together, and I think it's pretty exciting. As a long time skeptic like yourself. I saw some real world. >>I say, I'm excited about it. I just I'm just not holding my breath. Don't >>hold your breath. Not >>recommended weight. That's great, Evan. Thanks very much for coming in. Thanks so much. Appreciate your insights. Thanks so much. Thank you for watching. Keep it right there. But it will be back from Micron Insight 2019 from San Francisco. You're watching the Cube?

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Micron Insight 2019. (upbeat music) Brought to you by Micron. >> Hi, everybody, welcome to Pier 27 in San Francisco. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm with my co-host, David Floyer. And you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. This is our coverage of Micron Insight 2019, #microninsight. David, I love this show because, well, of course we're going to talk about Micron and memories and DRAMs and NANDs and all that techy stuff. We're also going to sort of set the tone on this day. It's a really thought leadership day and we talk a lot about AI and Edge and the big mega trends and superpowers, the cloud, mobile, that are really affecting demand and it all starts with data. So, Micron is a company that we're going to talk about and talk about in detail. But what are you seeing, David, as the big trends that are driving demand for bits? >> For bits. Well, let's start with the Edge that you were talking about. The Edge is growing and it's going to grow very, very strongly indeed. It's going to grow with smaller processes, it's the ARM processors at the Edge doing inference processing, capturing the data, and wanting to do that capturing of the data and the processing of that data as close to the origin of that data as possible. So memory and all of the, the NAND is moving out to the Edge itself. And it's going to be lots of smaller processes as opposed to the lots of big processes. >> Let me ask you a question. We've been following these markets for many, many years and, of course, when we started in the business it was all mainframe, and that was really what drove the consumption of data, and then the PC changed that. >> David: Took over, yep. >> And then that, you used to count markets. We used to do that all the time, and there was much more data going to the laptops and desktops, the Internet began to change that and of course, cloud sort of re-centralized a lot of the spending, and a lot of the buying power. Do you see, is it a pendulum swing again, is it that dramatic? Or do you see it as different? >> Like all big trends, the center still remains. So, the center now is cloud. Still mainframes is part of that cloud. That has to remain, and that is just much more economical for large-scale processing. That's the most economical. However, also the economics of it is that moving data is very expensive. It's very expensive in terms of the effort and it also, when you move data, you lose context. So, if you want the best context, and if you want to do things in real time, you want to process that data in real time as close to where it was produced as possible. So, yes, there will be a very big swing in the amount of processing and the amount of important processing that happens at the Edge. >> So, from the standpoint of things like NAND and flash, Steve Jobs changed everything when they decided to put flash inside of the iPhone. >> Actually not the iPhone. >> In the iPod, actually. >> iPod, yes. >> That drove massive massive, that was the beginning, the dam breaking, and what happened is that volumes went through the roof, cost went down, and that's really when you first predicted way back in the early part of this decade that NAND and flash would affect spinning disc, and it clearly has. Pricing maybe hasn't come down as fast as we thought because of supply constraints. But, nonetheless, it's happening. And now the prices are coming down more. You've seen somewhat of an oversupply in NAND. Prices have come down pretty substantially. And there's elasticity. Ever since we've been following this market, you've seen when prices drop, people buy more. At the same time, you saw like Pure Storage last quarter said, well, the prices dropped faster than we thought, it actually hurt our revenue. Because it just happened so fast in the middle of the quarter, that it hurt pricing overall for the subsystems, but nonetheless, that's the trend that we see happening. It feels like there's a new wave or a new step function of consumption going on with regard to flash. What are you seeing? >> Yes, flash was always about performance before, and there were two constraints to flash, in terms of its impact on the whole industry. The first was that the protocols that were used in flash were the old fashioned protocols that were used for HDD. Now, those have improved enormously with NVMe, et cetera, and those have got much, much better. So, that increases the demand for that flash. The usefulness of flash is now much better. And the second is, in terms of, that's high performance, there's high-capacity flash, and now flash is growing in two dimensions. It's growing in the number of layers, but it's growing from SLC to MLC to TLC to QLC in terms of the number of bits that it can pack into it. >> So, those all have cost implications on the cost per bit, obviously? >> Sure. Both of those are reducing the cost per bit, and making it available for different markets. So the capacity market, now as the prices come down, mean that it's going to take a bigger bite into the HDDs. In data center, it's going to become the norm just to have flash only. >> Micron's a little bit late to NVMe, but they're now hopping on board. Actually, you've made the comment to me in previous discussions, that they've actually timed things pretty well. >> Yeah. >> You kind of didn't want to over-rotate to NVMe. I know Pure was first, but Pure's a relatively small part of the marketplace. It seems like now everybody's going to NVMe. And basically what this does, as you pointed out, it eliminates a lot of the sort of older, slow, over head chatty protocols, and now it's like a bat phone right to the data. What are you seeing in terms of NVMe adoption? Is it now mainstream? >> Yes, we're predicting that in 2019 50% of the drives will be NVMe drives. That's a very rapid change. >> Let's up-level a little bit. We're talking about all of this geeky stuff down here, but what I'm interested in is why we need this. And the obvious question is there's so much more data now but it's also, AI. We talk a lot about the new innovation sandwich of being data plus AI plus cloud, combine those things together and that's really what's driving innovation. How real is AI? I presume we need all this stuff to be able to support these data-driven workloads, but how real is AI? It feels like it's pretty substantive. When we go to a lot of these shows, you hear about digital transformation and all these buzzwords and the Edge and IOT. 'Course, AI's one of the big buzzwords, but it does really actually feel like a superpower to invoke one of Pat Gelsinger's words. >> Yeah, it is. And AI could only operate if there was all that data available, so it's the availability of that data, because the algorithms and AI go back a long way. There's nothing new in that. But AI has now the availability of processing that data, large amounts of data, which makes it much more powerful. And now you're getting AI in things like a cellphone, the amount of AI that goes into recognizing your face is enormous. And it's now practical, everyday things are being done in AI, and it's going from being a niche to being just everyday use. And it's impact longterm is profound. It'll do all the jobs that humans do, many of the jobs that humans do, much more efficiently. Driving a car. It'll be better at driving a car than human beings are. >> Yeah, you see AI everywhere, you're right. Ad serving still stinks, but it's getting better. Fraud detection's getting much, much better. Email is now finishing my sentences for me. Right, you've noticed that in the last year or so. Basically say, oh, I like that choice, boom, I'll take it. And so as much as we hate autocorrect... And so those are some small examples, but what the industry likes to talk about is how it's changing lives, what it's going to do for healthcare, autonomous vehicles. Those are some of the big-picture items. >> David: Really big things. >> Which really haven't kicked in yet, just in terms of, or have they? In terms of consuming demand, for things like DRAM and NAND? >> It's relatively small at the moment but it has the potential to be very large, obviously. >> Dave: Go ahead, finish your thought. >> Because in the next 10 years we're going to see automated cars, it's going to be in pieces. You're going to have the trucks going first, and then other cars later. >> I know you're fairly sanguine and optimistic about autonomous vehicles, I know there are a lot of skeptics out there that talk about, we don't have enough data and we'll see, but we'll talk more about that. But I want to talk about Micron a little bit. Micron's a company, last year they were a $30 billion company, they got $23 billion in revenue this year so dramatic drop in revenues. And that was really due to the change in the supply/demand dynamic. Now, historically, when these things happen the stocks of these companies would just, you could predict it, you'd say, okay, time to sell, 'cause here comes the over-supply. And then when they hit the bottom, time to buy. Micron's done an amazing job of sort of steadying that. Managing its demand and supply balance. Also, obviously doing share buybacks that help the stock price, but the stock price has held up pretty well. So Micron's now a $23 billion company, last year they threw off $17 billion in free cash flow, this year, 13 billion. But still, well over 50% of their revenue's going back to free cash flow, which is quite large. Their market cap's 51 billion, so they're trading at a 2.2X revenue multiple, which is very strong. And they've got a 30% gross margin, right? The PC business, think about that. The DRAM, this is a good business, right? That's a nice business, because they don't have a giant direct sales force, so they don't have that cost, it's all through OEM. It's a fairly efficient business, and they've managed it pretty well. Your thoughts on Micron as a company. >> Yes, they have. They've managed the timing of every new release very well indeed. If you go too early, you over-rotate, then you are struggling to get that out. The costs are higher, and the people who are selling the previous generation are going to do better. But they've always timed it perfectly. >> Yeah, now they're facing some challenges. I talked about the supply/demand imbalance, but they're managing that. China, the tariffs hurt them. Huawei, was a big customer. They can't sell the Huawei anymore. China coming after companies like Micron, really going after consumer flash, building fab capacity to begin with, and then eventually China is going to aim at the higher value enterprise. What are you seeing there? >> I agree with you. They've had to rotate because of this problem with the tariffs that have been put on China. So, what's the reaction? They're going to have to invest. And that, long term, is good news for consumers and good news for everybody else, but it's going to be bad news for other people in the business. >> So, a bunch of announcements today. We can't talk about it, 'cause they're not public yet, but you're going to see some SSD stuff coming out. Maybe some acquisitions announced, you might see some other things around 3D XPoint, which is something that we really haven't talked much about but we will, I know your thoughts on that are it's still kind of niche. Remember the HP Memristor, right? Which is, nobody talks about that anymore. But now Micron's in a different situation. They'll figure out, okay, where that fits, but it's still a niche in your view because it doesn't have the volume. But we're going to be talking about that stuff. But, again, up-leveling the conversation to some of those big mega trends, those superpower drivers, data, AI, IOT, and the Edge, and some of the things that are really driving change, in not only industry but also our lives. So, David, appreciate the insight. David and I will be here all day today. You're watching theCUBE from Micron Insight from San Francisco. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. (upbeat music)

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering micron insight 2018 brought to you by micron welcome back to the San Francisco Bay everybody we saw the Sun rise in the bay this morning of an hour so we're gonna see the Sun set this gorgeous setting here at Pier 27 Nob Hills up there the Golden Gate Bridge over there and of course we have this gorgeous view of the bay you're watching the cube the leader in live tech coverage we're covering micron insight 2018 ai accelerating intelligence a lot of talk on on on memory and storage but a lot more talk around the future of AI so we got a great discussion here on the auto business and how AI is powering that business Jeff Bader is here is the corporate vice president and general manager of the embedded business unit at micron good to see you again Jeff thanks for coming on and Simon and rigor is the vice president BMW and he's also joined by Vijay Nadkarni who was the global head of AI and augmented reality at Visteon which is a supplier to Automobile Manufacturers gentlemen welcome to the cube thanks so much for coming on thank you so you guys had a panel earlier today which was pretty extensive and just a lot of talk about AI how AI will be a platform for interacting with the vehicle the consumer the driver interacting with the vehicle also talked a lot about autonomous vehicles but Simon watch you kick it off your role at BMW let's let's just start there it will do the same for Vijay and then get into it research portion that we do globally in which is represented here in North America and so obviously we're working on autonomous vehicles as well as integrating assistance into the car and basically what we're trying to do is to get use AI as much as possible in all of the behavioral parts of the vehicle that uses have an expectations towards being more personalized and having a personalized experience whereas we have a solid portion of the vehicle is going to be as a deterministic anesthetic as we have it before like all of the safety aspects for example and that is what we're working on here right now Vijay Visteon is a supplier to BMW and other auto manufacturers yes we are a tier 1 supplier so we basically don't make cars but we supply auto manufacturers of which BMW is one and my role is essentially AI technology adversity on and also augmented reality so in AI there are basically two segments that we cater to and one of them is that almost driving which is fully our biggest segment and the second one is infotainment and in that the whole idea is to give the driver a better experience in the car by way of recommendations or productivity improvements and such so that is so my team basically develops the technology and then we centrally integrate that into our products so so not necessarily self-driving it's really more about the experience inside the vehicle that is the and then on the autonomous driving side we of course very much are involved with the autonomous driving technology which is tested with detecting objects are also making the proper maneuvers for the Waker and we're definitely going to talk about that now Jeff you sell to the embedded industry of fooding automobile manufacturers we hear that cars have I forget the number of microprocessors but there's also a lot of memory and storage associate yeah I mean if you follow the chain you have our simon representing the OEMs Vijay represented the Tier one suppliers were supplier to those Tier one suppliers in essence right so so we're providing memory and storage that then goes in to the car in as you said across all of the different sort of control and engine drone and computing units within the car in particular into that infotainment application and increasingly into the a TAS or advanced driver assistance systems that are leading toward autonomous driving so there's a lot of AI or some AI anyway in vehicles today right presumably yeah affected David who did a wonderful job on the panel he was outstanding but he kind of got caught up in having multiple systems like a like an apple carplay your own system I actually have a bit about kind of a BMW have a mini because I'm afraid it's gonna be self-driving cars and I just want to drive a drive on car for this take it away from me though but but you push a button if you want to talk to a Syrian yeah push another button if you want to talk to the mini I mean it's it's gonna use it for different use cases right exactly may I is also about adaption and is also about integrating so AI is is is coming with you with the devices that you have with you anyway right so your might be an Alexa user rather than a Google assistant user and you would have that expectation to be able to ask to chat with your Alexa in your car as well that's why we have them in the vehicle also we have an own voice assistant that we recently launched in Paris Motorshow which augments the experience that you have with your own assistants because it factors in all of the things you can do with the car so you can say there is a solid portion of AI already in the vehicle it's mainly visible in the infotainment section right and of course I remember the first time I'm sure you guys experienced to that the the car braked on my behalf and then kind of freaked me out but then I kind of liked it too and that's another form of machine intelligence well that out well that counts for you that had not that has not necessarily been done by AI because in in in let's say self-driving there is a portion of pretty deterministic rule based behavior and exactly that one like hitting an object at parking you don't need AI to determine to hit the right there is no portion or of AI necessary in order to improve that behavior whereas predicting the best driving strategy for your 20-mile ride on the highway this is where AI is really beneficial in fact I was at a conference last week in Orlando it's the Splunk show and it was a speaker from BMW talking about what you're doing in that regard yeah it's all about the data right learning about it and and in turning data into insights into better behavior yes into better expected behavior from whatever the customer wants so Vijay you were saying before that you actually provide technology for autonomous vehicles all right I got a question for you could it autonomous - could today's state of autonomous vehicles pass a driver's test no no would you let it take one no it depends I mean there are certain companies like way mo for example that do a lot but I still don't think way mo can take a proper driver's test as of today but it is of course trying to get there but what we are essentially doing is taking baby steps first and I think you may be aware of the SAE levels so level 1 level 2 level 3 level 4 SF and a 5 so we and most of the companies in the industry right now are really focusing more on the level 2 through level 4 and a few companies like Google or WAV or other and uber and such are focusing on the level 5 we actually believe that the level 2 through 4 is the market would be ready for that essentially in the shorter term whereas the level 5 will take a little while to get that so everybody Christmas and everyone we're gonna have autonomous because I'm not gonna ask you that question because there's such a spectrum of self-driving but I want to ask you the question differently and I ask each of you when do you think that driving your own car will become the exception rather than than the rule well I'd rather prefer actually to rephrase the question maybe to where not when because we're on a highway setting this question can be answered precisely in roughly two to three years the the functionality will kick in and then it's going to be the renewal of the vehicles so if you answer if you if you ask where then there is an answer within the next five years definitely if we talk about an urban downtown scenario the question when is hard to answer yeah well so my question is more of a social question it is a technology question because I'm not giving up my stick shift high example getting my 17 year old to get his permit was like kicking a bird out of the nest I did drive his permanent driver on staff basically with me right so why but I mean when I was a kid that was freedom 16 years old you racing out and there is a large generational group growing up right now that doesn't necessarily see it as a necessity right so not driving your own car I think car share services right share who bore the so and so forth are absolutely going to solve a large portion of the technology of the transportation challenge for a large portion of the population I think but I agree with the the earlier answers of it's gonna be where you're not driving as opposed to necessarily win and I think we heard today of course the you know talking about I think the number is 40,000 fatalities on the roadways in the u.s. in the u.s. yeah everybody talks about how autonomous vehicles are going to help attack that problem um but it strikes me talk about autonomous cars it why don't we have autonomous carts like in a hospital or even autonomous robots that aren't relying on lines or stripes or beacons you one would think that that would come before in our autonomous vehicle am I missing something are there are there there there systems out there that that I just haven't seen well I don't know if you've ever seen videos of Amazon distribution centers yeah but they're there they're going to school on lines and beacons and they are they're not really autonomous yeah that's fair that's fair yeah so will we see autonomous carts before we see autonomous cars I think it's a question what problem that solves necessarily yeah it's just as easy for them to know where something is yeah you think about microns fabs every one of our fabs is is completely automated as a material handling system that runs up and down around the ceilings handling all the wafers and all the cartridges the wafers moving it from one tool to the next tool to the next tool there's not people anymore carrying that around or even robots on the floor right but it's a guided track system that only can go to certain you know certain places well the last speaker today ii was talking about it I remember when robots couldn't climb stairs and now they can do backflips and you know you think about the list of things that humans can do that computers can't do it let's get smaller and smaller every year so it's kind of scary to think about one hand is that does the does the concept of Byzantine fault-tolerance you guys familiar with that does that does that come into play here you guys know what that's about I don't know what it is exactly so that's a problem and I first read about it with it's the Byzantine general problem if you have nine generals for one Oh attack for one retreat and the ninth sends a message to half to retreat or not and then you don't have the full force of the attack so the concept is if you're in a self-driving boat within the vehicle and within the ecosystem around the city then you're collectively solving the problem so there these are challenging math that need to be worked out and and I'm not saying I'm a skeptic but I just wanted more I read about it the more hurdles we have there's some isolated examples of where AI I think fits really well and is gonna solve problems today but this singularity of vehicle seems to be we have a highly regulated environment obviously public transportation or public roads right are a highly regulated environment so it's like it's different than curating playlists or whatever right this is not so much regulated traffic and legislation isn't there yet so especially and it's it's designed for humans right traffic cars roads are designed for human to use them and so the adoption to they the design of any legislation any public infrastructure would be completely different if we didn't drive as humans but we have it we have machines drive them so why are robots and carts not coming because the infrastructure really is designed for humans and so I think that's what's going to be the ultimate slow down is how fast we as a society that comes up with legislation with acceptance of behavioral aspects that are driven by AI on how fast we adopt it technically I think it can happen faster than yeah yeah it's not a technology problem as much as it is the public policy insurance companies think about one of the eventually you can think of from from let's say even level four capable car on a highway is platooning yeah right instead of having X number of car lengths to the turn fryer you just stack them up and they're all going on in a row that sounds great until Joe Blow with their 20 year old Honda you know starts to pull into that Lane right so you either say this Lane is not allowed for that or you create special infrastructure essentially that isn't designed for humans there is more designed specifically for the for the machine driven car right how big is this market it's it feels like it's enormous I don't know how do you look at the tan we can talk to the memory I can talk the memory storage part of it right but today memory and storage all of memory storage for automotive is about a two and a half billion dollar market that is gonna triple in the next three years and probably beyond that my visibility is not so good maybe yours is better for sure but it then really driven by adoption rate and how fast that starts to penetrate through the car of OAM lines and across the different car in vijay your firm is when were you formed how long you've been around or vistas be around basically since around 2001 okay we were part of relatively old spun out whiskey on that at work right okay so so alright so that's been around forever yeah for this Greenfield for you for your your group right where's the aw this is transitional right so is it is it is it you try not to get disrupted or you trying to be the disrupter or is it just all sort of incremental as a 101 year old company obviously people think about you as being ripe for disruption and I think we do quite well in terms of renewing ourselves coming from aeroplane business to a motorcycle business to garbage and so I think the answer is are we fast enough I'll be fast enough in adoption and on the other hand it's fair to say that BMW with all of its brands is part of a premium thing and so it's not into the mass transportation so everything that's going to be eaten up by something like multi occupancy vehicle mass transportation in a smaller effort right this is probably not going to hurt the premium brand so much as a typical econo type of boxy car exciting time so thanks so much for coming on the cube you got a run appreciate thank you so much okay thanks for watching everybody we are out from San Francisco you've watched the cube micron inside 2018 check out Silicon angle comm for all the published research the cube dotnet as well you'll find these videos will keep on calm for all the research thanks for watching everybody we'll see you next time you

>> Hey, welcome back here everybody. It's Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit. It's in San Francisco at Pier 27. It's a new facility, we've never been here. It's pretty unique. It's right between the Bay bridge and Pier 39. Beautiful day out on the water and it's all about DevOps here at PagerDuty. And I'm going to tease Jen later if people even know what a pager is at this town. So we are excited to have Nicole Forsgren She's a founder at CEO and chief scientist of DevOps research and assessment. I had to read it, it's a big mouthful but it goes buy DORA for sure. Nicole, welcome to see you. Good to see you. >> Thanks so much. It's good to be here. >> Alright so you are the DevOps expert. You got a really interesting past. Did some research on the LinkedIn profile industry. Academe industry, Academe and now you're out helping people. >> Yes, bounce around a bit. It's all about the pivot right? >> Absolutely. >> Out here doing DevOps. >> Absolutely, absolutely so you do an annual report on the state of DevOps. So where are we? DevOps has been being talked about for a long, long time. How much is reality? How far are we on this journey? What are you seeing? >> Right so it's really interesting you point that out right, because for years everyone's been like DevOps. What is it? Does it matter? And so DORA and by the way, DORA is myself. Jess Humble, Jame Kim. We just brought on Sue Chow. But the core founders, we've partnered up with the team at Puppet, and for the last several years. We've put out the state of DevOps report. To kind of help define at least from a research standpoint and from our standpoint. What it is? What are the key contributors to really drive value and does it drive value? It's for years and I'll talk about this later this afternoon on my closing keynote. For years and when I say years, I mean decades of academic rigorous, pure review research. Technology didn't matter. Like it didn't matter at all. It just never delivered value to organizations. But then we started seeing patterns and really interesting patterns and companies saying no. We're seeing results, we're delivering value. We're delivering outcomes. Core essential outcomes for end users and customers in the business. And so we got together and say okay, let's really take a look at this in a really important way. >> Right, now how far we've come right. 'Cause now most companies are technology companies. They just happen to warp their technology around a particular product or a particular service. >> Yeah, exactly. >> And now most leading the technology in terms of a vehicle to drive value and to drive transformation. So DevOps is also very wrapped up in this whole concept of digital transformation. That's all anybody wants to talk about. It's in every earnings call, so how closely are the two related and how do you see, 'cause DevOps got a little bit more history in terms of the buzz of transformation. Are people applying DevOps concept beyond strictly development and operations? >> So, there's a lot to unpack there. So like you said, it's really, really involved. Although it has some kind of a buzz word, right? Some people love it, some people embrace it, some people never want to hear it. So it's really all about what's important to the company in delivering value. But it's core is really about taking important methodologies and practices to deliver value and it's about using technology and automation, in conjunction with core values and practices and processes that we've adopted from the lane and agile movements. >> Jeff: Right, right. And having a really good healthy culture that's about more than just DevOps. Right like you said. DevOps, QA, Info Sec. The business marrying all of that, pulling all of it together, working in conjunction in the right kind of ways to deliver value. To deliver key outcomes to help us pivot, move fast, learn, have fast feedback. So that we can do what we need to do for the company, for the business, because like you said, it's so many companies right now, really are technology organizations that happened to be wrapped around in some particular industry. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> Capital One is a financial institution. Really they are a technology organization that happens to do finance and deliver finance really, really well for their customers. So many other companies are doing retail but it's driven by technology. Right or they do insurance and it's driven by technology or they're a healthcare organizations that really can't do what they do unless they have technology to really drive it. >> Right, right. The financials institutions are interesting because if you talk to like my kids. If they've ever been inside of an actual bank and then and how often do they go to the atm? So not even atm, so the way that people more and more interact with the company is through digital mediums. >> Right. >> But I'm curious to get you're input on the big question that we always ask people is how do I get started. Right, what is the easy paths to success? How do I get some early success so I can build on that success? What's interesting is you have a very unique approach to solve that question as oppose to what I think or based on what I'm really good at, I think we should start here. >> Yes, we really do-- >> Do you guys have different-- >> And this is really why DORA exist and this is what we do. So myself Jess Humble, Jean Kim. This explains the genesis of DORA. So we have a couple different things so the mission of DORA is to help companies get better through science and proven methods. Ans so we have a couple of different things we do. The first is that state of DevOps report that we put together at Puppet. And those are all open sourced and so if you want some ideas of what really statistically drives improvement, go find those. They're open source, they're totally free. We've tried so many resources because we don't want companies to fail. We've all lived through that awful dot com mess. We've seen companies fail. Go find those resources. Now your question though, where should I start? If I'm a company, what should I do? We've all go into conferences myself, Jean, Jess and we've had companies come up and say well where should I start? And the answer is always, it depends. The answer is always it depends because I can't tell you absent context, absent data, absent information. If I don't know about someone's detail information. I can't tell you and so what we also have is we offer an assessment where I can collect data from the doers. Right there's this fantastic report from Forester. It's called the dangerous disconnect and that's such a great title because if you ask executives. They drastically over estimate technology and DevOps maturity in organizations. So you shouldn't be, I mean I love-- >> Over estimate. >> Of course they do. I mean because we need to be really, really optimistic about where our organizations are going. >> Right, right. >> Those are our roles as executives. And so that's appropriate but in certain conditions that's appropriate. But where it's not appropriate is when you're setting detail strategy for your organizations. And so what we do is we offer an assessment where using these strong scientifically based measure that we have prepared and refined over now, four years of rigorous academic research. We can go with a 15 minute survey, collect data from everyone in organization that like I said are the doers. DevOps, TestOps, QA, InfoSec including vendors, contractors, consultants to people that are in the weeds every single day. I can measure you. I can benchmark you against the industry. I've got over 23,000 data points around the world. All industries, all company sizes. And then, where should they start? I can algorithmically tell you what your bottle neck is, what your constraint is. Where you should start to accelerate your performance. >> Based on my data? >> Based on your data. >> Based on your algorithms and based on your population data from this huge data set >> Yes, and with the companies that we're working with right now, they're seeing amazing results. They're calling it out-sized results. So a really great example we have was with Capital One. They did the assessment across over a dozen lines of business. And by focusing on two core capabilities out of over 20. We focus them on the right two capabilities. They saw a 20X improvement in deploy frequency in only two months with zero increase in internet. >> 20% improvement-- >> 20X >> 20X? >> 20X >> In two months. >> 20 times. >> Wow. >> So it's that ability to measure consistently see visibility throughout that software engineering life cycle. So we also had feedback from customer like Verizon. That that visibility, that consistency of measurement was also a really huge value add. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> Measurements hard. >> Well it's interesting, I saw some of your videos and some of your prior key notes and stuff and talking about, everyone says data is in the world. But the data without context, the data without the right algorithms, and you talk about a bunch data dirty things and data problems. Data itself is not the new oil. So I wanted to get to your report 'cause that's kind of your bench mark. That's your big stake in the ground. So how are we've been doing it? What do you do different than other things that are out there? Besides the fact that it's open source which I'll ask you about as a follow up. What makes your research special? >> So why is our report different from any other reports out there? I think there's a couple things. The piece that makes me the proudest is that, the state of DevOps report is so different because it's academically rigorous. It's a true research report and I love that the team has been so loving and so patient with me. Because when I started working with the rest of the group four years ago, I stepped in and I said. This is what I want to do. These are my ideas. I was still a professor at the time, so as you mentioned, I was industry and then academia and I'm now in industry again. But I stepped in and I said, I think there's this really, really fantastic opportunity to take a look of what's going on but we have to measure this in really rigorous ways. And by doing that, it allows us to look at predictive relationships, which is interesting because it let's us say. If we focus on core capabilities, they will predict organization's ability to develop and deliver quality software with speed and stability. Which will in turn drive improvements in organizational performance. Profitability, productivity, market share. Effectiveness, efficiency delivering mission and organizational goals. Notice I'm saying predict and drive. I'm not saying correlate, which is really interesting. And so in these years of research, we've been able to identify core capabilities that drive improvement. So it allows organizations to understand what's important to invest in. It's not just this worked for my team. This worked for that team. Hey, I think this is what I'm going to try because as someone fond of joking. Anecdote is nice but the plural of anecdote isn't anecdata. (laughing) Right, and that was my frustration when I was in tech and before and when I was in consulting. If you want to try a thing and you want to apply it but it's really hard if I only have one or two or three or five maybe even 10 stories. We need so much data to really understand what will likely work for teams and for industries as a whole. And like I said, God bless the team, because I came in and I was really rigorous and I would say that doesn't work, we can't measure that. That doesn't work here and sometimes I'd come back and I'd say that doesn't hold. The stats don't hold and they say, "But it has to." "I know it worked here and I know it worked here." And I'm like, but it's not, we have no evidence to support that. The stats don't hold. This doesn't work. We can't say that and we're like hey, we'll have to try it again next year. Not try it again next year but we have to find a different way to measure it. We have to have a different hypothesis to test. But then we also find really amazing things like I said a couple times, it predicts a team's ability to develop and deliver code with speed and stability. Speed and stability. We found four years ago speed and stability go together. For years, we didn't know that was the case or we thought that in order to get stability, you had to slow down. It doesn't show up anywhere in the data. No where, high performers get both. >> So do the executives, do they realize the leader that having better internal thought for development has an impact on their business relative to saving a few bucks on parts or spending a few more bucks on marketing? As a real driver of value as oppose to it's just always internal apps that we have to build for whatever reason. >> They're starting to get there. And so what we're starting to do is we're really focusing heavily on delivering code with speed and stability. And then, we're saying okay, imagine if you could deliver with speed and stability here. What could you do with delivering features? How does that help you get to market faster? How does that help you beat your competitors? How does it allow you to respond to complaints and regulatory changes? And so that's really what helps us drive and then another way that we are a little different from other reports that are out there. Other industry reports are also very helpful but they are very different. So I don't say things like 27% of the industry is using configuration management. Other report say that and that is interesting. I don't report on percentage of the industry that's doing something. >> Right, right. >> But those other reports can not say what is predictive of improvement. So we are the prediction. Occasionally, I'll report correlations if I don't have the statistics to go as strong as-- >> And what moves it from correlation to prediction is the strength of the algorithms? >> No, it's the strength of the research design. >> The strength of the research design upfront? >> Yep, up front. >> Before you feed it in. >> Upfront and-- >> 'Cause really, you're knocking them at research. >> Yes. >> Rigor. >> Yep. >> That's the underpinning of the whole thing. >> And much more data has been published in academic periodicals, so we are still actively doing research. >> And I would imagine that the annual report is really an ongoing, longitudinal study across a whole lot of the same companies over and over and over, year in, year out. So you get them-- >> So it's open every year. >> As well. >> Yep. >> Awesome, alright Nicole. Well that is fascinating and everyone should go to DORA and get the free research. And then if they want to bring you guys in, and you offer custom services to help the particular company execute and do better. >> Yes, absolutely. So you can go to DevOps-research.com to find all of our research and anything else you want to find out about engaging with us or anything like that. >> Nicole Forsgren. She's DORA the explorer. She'll help you out with your DevOps. I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE from PagerDuty Summit. Thanks for watching. (uptempo techno music)

>> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit in Downtown San Francisco. Actually, out on the wharf. It's called Pier 27, never been here before. Pretty cool venue between Pier 39 and the Bay Bridge. We're excited to have a very seasoned Silicon Valley veteran, Nick Mehta. He's the CEO of Gainsight, but look at his LinkedIn profile. He's been on startups, he's been at venture capital companies and now we hear you might may be growing a little unicorn thingy out of your head after that last round. (Nick laughs) >> I don't know about unicorn-- >> Nick, great to see you. >> But a gray hair, for sure. Seasoned, I think just means gray hair, so. >> Absolutely. >> That's growing in my head for sure. >> For people who aren't familiar with Gainsight, give them the basic overview. >> Sure, Jeff. At Gainsight, we really believe that almost every business model is shifting to ones where customers have more power. Therefore, you can't afford to just sell a customer and move on, and for a long time, businesses, the vendors had all the power. You sell a software product or hardware, you sell a device, and once the customer has it, it's up to them whether they get value. Gainsight, we're trying to help enable a shift to this concept we call customer success, where companies have to own whether or not their customers are getting value, whether they're getting the outcomes they want, whether they're using the stuff they buy, and we build a software product, a SAS application, that helps companies make sure everyone in your company is orienting your customers towards getting more value, and in the process, get them to stay with you longer, spend more money with you, and become bigger fans of your company. >> Right, I imagine a lot of people might confuse it with CRN. >> Right. >> Customer relation management and there's a big 60 storey building going up. >> I've seen the building, and we love those guys. Think of us as an adjacent product to what you might do with a Salesforce automation product like salesforce.com. We actually integrate very tightly with Salesforce, as an example, they're an investor in Gainsight. As you're managing sales with your Salesforce, you're managing your support team, you're managing other systems. How do you manage your customers and make sure they're getting value, make sure they're going to stay with you and grow over time? That's what Gainsight does. >> It's really interesting, 'cause people have been talking about the 360 degree view of the customer forever, but that's the challenge you guys went directly after with your application. >> Yeah, it's funny. That's right. I think, for a long time, people were trying to solve 360 view of the customer, but what they were really solving was 360 view of the deal, 'cause it was all about the sale, and the sale is important, it's still very important, right? It was about marketing leads and who I'm selling to and who has power and those are all really important things but now if you think about a world where the customer has power, you've got to look at 360 view of the customer. Are they getting the outcomes they're looking for? Are they adopting and using what they bought? Are they having a good experience? It's a totally different pivot on the world. It's about the customer, not the deal. >> It's interesting too to parallel that with just SAS and Cloud, because when you have a SAS relationship with a client and an ongoing subscription revenue model, you have to keep delivering value, you have to make sure they're going to pay you next month and the month after and the month after. It's not just a sell it and walk away. >> That's exactly right, Jeff. As you know, first of all, it's way cheaper to keep and grow an existing customer than to go get a new one, and because of that, the SAS business model depends on actual high retention rates. People talk about gross retention rate, basically, "Are you keeping the customers you've got?" And then also your net retention rate, are they spending more money with you over time? And the most successful SAS companies, the highest valued ones, are keeping their customers and getting them to spend more money, so that's one of the most important value drivers in SAS. >> I'm curious, when you guys deploy into a new company, a new customer, what are some of the early a-has that you just see over and over and over again that they just miss before they had this view? >> Totally, so number one is almost every company feels today like they're reactive. They find out about things but very late. A customer leaving them, somebody unhappy, a missed sales opportunity, so number one is just getting your organization to be more proactive. Number two, how do you get everyone in the company aligned around the customer? You might have somebody that cares about that one customer, but that customer is talking to support, they're working with your services team, they're going through training. How do you get everyone aligned around the customer and really have a good view across your whole organization so they're all marching for that? Number three, the third a-ha, is how do you scale that? You might have 100 customers, you might have 1,000, you might have a million. How do you scale the right approach with the right customer, whether it's a human outreach or whether it's a fully digital experience, which we can do both, of course. >> What about, there's customers that are in your sales book as a company, but then there's individuals, right, that you're interacting with. >> That's right. >> And in a big company to (mumbling) a relationship, it's not just two companies. It's thousands, or hundreds of thousands of people that are interacting at a bunch of different levels. >> I'm so glad you said that. >> How do you integrate that in? >> Yeah, totally, it's funny, because if you have a big customer and somebody says, "Is your big customer happy or not?" There's no one answer to that question. There might be one part that loves you, another part that doesn't like you, one part that's rolling out, one part that's using some new stuff, one part that's not using anything, and so you have to be able to break up that company in a lot of little pieces, we call those relationships, and then measure each of those differently and be able to drive each of those forward. So, you're totally right. It's not about one company, it's about a lot of little customers within that big customer. >> Right, now you bought into Cloud early in. I think you were actually at a VC firm looking at Cloud and obviously you're at Gainsight and SAS Application. As you look forward, you just got off a panel, what's next? Where do you see the next big evolution or revolution, if you will, in the way IT services and software are delivered? >> Totally, I think the biggest thing that's happening right now is that Cloud is just a delivery vehicle, I think everyone knows that. SAS is kind of table stakes. Mainstream companies are saying, how do I reinvent my core business by shifting to these business models that are digitally enabled? People call that digital transformation. That's what this panel we just did was all about. That's happening not just in Silicon Valley, that's happening in manufacturers and retailers and financial services companies. When they do that, they're rethinking everything about what they do, how they manage product development, how they actually sell, and also the customer experience, which is where we come in. We think the biggest thing is kind of obvious, it's digital transformation. Underneath that, you can leverage all kinds of new technologies whether it's artificial intelligence, machine learning, bots. But the transformation of mainstream businesses is happening at a rapid speed right now. >> I want to get one last point before we let you go, the impact of social, direct social back to these big companies. My favorite one is Comcast Cares. Every time my internet goes down, I jump on and I tweet-- >> Nick: Oh my God. >> Give my internet back! >> I feel for those Comcast Cares social people. They deal with a lot of mean words. >> No, this is not Xfinity Cares, this is Comcast Cares. But it's a really interesting paradox for companies, because people can reach out directly in kind of a semi public forum, which it wasn't, you know, just calling the 1800 number. How are they integrating that into this customer relationship management? >> Oh my God, we talk about the fact that customers have more power and they have bigger voices. One customer has a much bigger voice than they ever did, and so you have this amazing opportunity to either create a great advocate who could bring you new customers and new sales, or create all these detractors. I think that that public voicing of customer experience has made CEOs much more aware of why it matters. Before, a customer has a bad experience, they type up a letter and mail it to some office that nobody ever reads, and now, this CEO is seeing on her or his Facebook or Twitter feed or LinkedIn the customer upset, and I think that's making them much more aware of customer experience being really important. >> Right, right, and are you seeing, it's interesting to me, there's some senior executives, Michael Dell, Beth Comstock, just picked two out of the hat, that are super active on social-- >> Nick: Oh my gosh, yeah. >> Directly engaging with their community. There's other big companies, which I won't name, where people don't even have a LinkedIn account-- >> That's right. >> Much less a Twitter account. Is there a direct correlation that you're seeing between embracing a direct engagement with your community versus, "Eh, I don't want to say anything bad," which I think, it's either or the other. >> Yeah, I empathize with the fear, because I think people worry about saying something bad, so I get it. I think it's definitely misguided and kind of backwards. You can't stick your head in the sand anymore. Take somebody like Marc Benioff, who's so great at this, and he's on Twitter, he's advocating for causes. He's taking, maybe, controversial stands in some cases, but he's putting himself out there and he cares about his customers. Same thing with Michael Dell, same thing with Beth Comstock. There's so many great CEOs out there, so honestly, at this point, if you're not out there, you look like you have something to hide, right? (laughter) Which is not good. >> Which is not good. Alright, Nick, thanks for taking-- >> Thanks so much, Jeff. >> A few minutes, and congratulations. I saw you were a Top 50 SAS CEO of 2017, and continued success at Gainsight. >> I don't know how I made that list, but I felt honored, so thank you so much. >> Absolutely. >> I really appreciate it. >> We'll see you next time. He's Nick Mehta, I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE from PagerDuty Summit 2017. Thanks for watching.

(clicking) >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit in San Francisco at Pier 27, I got to look at it. I've never been here before. It's a cool facility right on the water, between Pier 39 and the Bay Bridge. We're really excited to have back, I can't believe it's been like three years. To have Sheila Jordan, she's a CIO of Symantec and last we saw you was, I looked it up it was Service Now Knowledge 2014. >> Yes that's correct. >> Sheila, great to see you. >> Sheila: Nice to see you. Thanks for being here. >> Absolutely. So I think when we first talked you were just starting in your role in Symantec and now you're three years into it, you just got off a panel about leading digital transformation, so just give us kind of a general view of what you've been up to and how has that journey been progressing? >> Right, well it's been quite a journey and I would say that it's been really a transformational journey. So the vision for Symantec really is to become the largest cyber security company in the world. And that vision really started two, two and half years ago and I'd say that today it's a reality. When I was hired, I was actually hired to in source IT, so we completed that and then when we went through the Veritas separation, so we separated the company with Veritas which was a pretty significant separation. And then subsequently we've acquired four or five companies, we've recently acquired the Blue Coat company, which with that acquisition, we get our CEO Greg Clark. And then we've also acquired some other companies on the consumer side so the LifeLock business is really tied to our consumer digital safety. So we've been very busy and now we've just announced a small divestiture on our website security business. So lots of acquisitions, lots of change, lots of transformation, that really would been bringing into the organization. >> Jeff: Right and you talked on the panel your job is you got to keep the lights on and keep things moving. Then you've got this acquisition and in your case big, the split the divestiture. But then you still want to innovate and you've talked about looking at new applications, and I thought a really interesting comment you made was about shadow IT. >> Right >> And shadow IT is not all bad. There's a reason that somebody decided to take that action. And really they're trying to understand why? And what was the application requirement? And not just throw it out as unauthorized use. Pretty interesting lesson. >> Sheila: Well a couple things on that. Working in an engineering organization you can't ignore when there's apps being used and come up, because there's a need. Obviously there's a need that the IT organization isn't providing and so what it that need? And what is that capability that the organization is looking for? Now the cool thing is we have technology called CASB which is the Cloud Access Security Broker. That allows us to look at the entire environment of what both cloud applications of who's using what. So for example, we are sanctioned and our standard is box, but I can look across the organization and see what cloud applications we're using and if Drop Box appears, that's a question to say no that doesn't make sense, our standard's box. But the reality is is that all other applications that might be coming out of the engineering organization's using, we should be asking ourselves why? What capability are we not delivering? And how do we bring that into the IT arsenal? >> Jeff: Right, right. And essentially you bring up the box example because another thing you talked about on the stage was your cloud adoption. So kind of you threw out a number, 62%. So I'm not exactly sure what 62% is. But where was it when you got there? What is 62%? What are you measuring? And there's conversations about direct ROI but it's a much more complicated formula than just a simple ROI. >> Yes it really is, and I would say that first of all, from an IT perspective, I think any CIO has the obligation to help the organization run, change, and grow. And forward thinking CEOs really understand that technology can be used to not only run the company, that's kind of old school legacy total cost of ownership costs. Really super important, but it's not only run, but how do you use the technology to change and grow? So when you have opportunities like Saas, that allow the CIOs to have, reduce our total cost of ownership, be more agile, have the Saas providers update their products and solutions and all of that, that's kind of on the Saas providers. It makes our job a little easier or different I'd say. What I mean by that is the role of the CIO hasn't changed. Our job is to protect the company's assets. All of our company's assets and our data whether that's customer data, employee data, partner data. And yet five or seven years ago, it was these monolithic applications it was a private data center. on-prem physical data center. It was massive or monolithic geopcs. All of that has changed. So the role hasn't changed but now we've got to think about Saas applications. Cloud, infrastructure as a service. Public cloud on the infrastructure side. We think about all the applications that are coming in on our mobile devices. We think about IOT, we think about structured and unstructured data. Our role is the same, but how we have to manage that complexity to help our companies and enable our companies run, change, and grow; it's just very different. >> Jeff: And then you get involved in kind of investigating how the second order impacts? Kind of the law of unintended positive consequences by going to a Saas application, for instance. Or going to some of these platforms that doesn't show up in the simple ROI analysis. >> No, I agree with that. But I also think it's total cost of ownership but it's also as important today, as a agility. Everyone wants to get to market faster. Everyone wants to feel to be more productive. So it's really the combination of both total cost of ownership and agility. >> Yeah you said an interesting thing too. "Speed is a habit." Which is a really interesting quote. Because everybody wants speed. >> Absolutely >> And we just had another guest who talked about speed actually does correlate to better software. Because it forces you to do that. But everybody wants speed. You got to have it. So the other, you were all over, I got notes. We could go on all day. I won't go on all day, but somebody talked about what are the limits? What are the limits of applications? As you made a really interesting comment that at the end of the day, it's just about the data flow, and having a horizontal view from your seat. You may find that there's other ways to skin that cat based on what other people are doing. >> Sheila: Right, so I would say one of the reasons I love being in IT, is we see horizontally. There's many functions in the company that see in those silos, but we get to see horizontally which means we see the redundancies in an organization and some of the gaps. And so and as the world changes, that it's less about these monolithic, huge applications, but more about cloud and Saas. It really becomes important about the data flow. Where is the data? Not only is it in that say sales force application, but how does that sales force application move to a box? And how does that content move from box to say some of the collaboration tools in technology and how does that move and flow? Our role has to be about, one: Understanding the data flow and really where that exists. And how do we enable the entire business? Every function to be even more productive. But also how we protect and secure that. So, I think it's so exciting that not only are we doing, our view in IT is to deliver that unified, end to end experience. And it all comes down to the reference architecture approach. But the other part why I'm so excited about Symantec is because we're moving into the notion and the vision of having an integrated cyber defense platform. And I'll explain that for one second. Because historically, the security business has been really fragmented. Point solutions to protect every layer of your architecture. So whether you had a point solution in infrastructure, or end points, or data, or at the web gateway layer. Whatever that was, and what happened is, over time, our recent report would suggest that a large enterprise has anywhere between 65 and 85 security products in there enterprise. Large, large enterprise. >> 65 to 85. >> Security products >> Point solutions. >> In their enterprise. (Jeff chuckles) Yeah and so >> Tough to manage. >> It becomes, yeah it really does. One of the visions that Greg Clark and Mike Fey have for our company, is why can't we be, and deliver this integrated, cyber defense platform? Because it's really connected. We then have products that will live at each layer of the architecture but connected. And so the really super cool thing about that, is that the white spaces between those fragmented products, really are breeding grounds for the bad guys to come in and stay awhile and sit and watch and observe. If you have all that legacy technology and legacy applications, it just becomes a breeding ground. And when you have an integrated cyber trends platform that actually allows it to be much more integrated and really reduce some of the risks and all for our CEOs and customers, a better opportunity to effectively manage their environment. >> Right and you guys are a security company, but also you're a CIO of trying to protect stuff. So you're in a really good spot. Cause the other thing that's happening is this radical increase in the tax services. Especially as we go beyond cloud and APIs to edge economy and IOT devices. As you kind of look at the future of both for protecting your own stuff but also helping to deliver the products for your customers, if the security space is really really rapidly evolving. >> Rapidly evolving and becoming even more important. Because again, the flow of data from your sales force application to your mobile device to IOT back to a content solution. Back to some of the collaboration. The flow of data, is now app to app, or Saas to Saas. Saas to device, device to infrastructure as a service, so it really is the flow of data is so dynamic, and so security becomes just super critical to make sure we're securing that data in motion. >> Right, Right. Yeah it's crazy. And even if you have the most secure systems, you might have lapses in protocol which we hear like some of the CAWS breaches, where somebody didn't configure something right. Alright so, I could keep you here all day (Sheila chuckles) But I won't. But I want to give you that last word. What's next? And there was a little bit of conversation on the panel, so I want to open that up again. As you kind of look forward or, the cloud thing's kind of done, the API thing is kind of done as you look forward, what's kind of the next ... Never say five years in this business. Next couple years, you're excited about the move in the industry forward. >> Sheila: Well I actually think, and I know it might be an overused term, but I really think that we're just scratching the surface on AI artificial intelligence and machine learning. We're using a lot of that in our products today and how we're building our security products. But when I think about corporate IT, and I think about how we deliver statistics and information about our business. So transactional reporting on bookings and revenue and forecast and expenses, there needs to be a better, more predictive way of analyzing that data and understanding it in a much more sophisticated AI. Machine learning that we get our customer insights. And we really start to use those insights into building out that kind of knowledge as we move forward. I look forward to really beginning to really really have some strategies on AI and machine learning in corporate IT. >> Alright, well Sheila Jordan it was great to see you. Hopefully it won't be >> Nice to see you! >> Three years >> Three years till we see you again! CIO of Symantec. I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE from PagerDuty Summit San Francisco. Thanks for watching. >> Sheila: Thank you so much. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit. It's our first time at PagerDuty Summit and Pier 27, our first time to this cool venue. It's right on the water between the Bay Bridge and Pier 39, beautiful view outside. Unfortunately, the fire smoke's a little over-the-top. But we're excited to have one of our favorite guests, Jennifer Tejada. She's the CEO at PagerDuty. Jennifer, great to see you. >> Thank you. It's so great to be back, Jeff. >> Absolutely. So this is, what, your second PagerDuty Summit? >> This is our second PagerDuty Summit. >> 500-some-odd people? >> I think we've had 700 through the door already. We've got a few hundred streaming online. Almost twice what we did last year. So we're really excited. We're still in the infancy stages of sponsoring an industry event, and we've been really focused on trying to make it a little different to insure that people walk away with actionable insights, and best practices and learnings they can take immediately back to their teams, and to their companies. So we've had just some awesome guest speakers and panelists here today, and it's been a lot of fun. The PagerDuty band played live at lunch. >> That's right, I saw them at lunchtime. >> Yeah, which was great. So we're having a good time. >> What are they called? The On-Calls. >> The On-Calls. I let them name themselves. >> And so, you've been here a year now. So, how are things moving, how are you moving the company along since you got here? What are some of the strategic things that you've been able to execute, and now you're looking forward? >> So, it's just been an incredible year, honestly. You always hope for a number of things when you come into a new role. You hope that the team rallies around the business. You hope that the opportunity is as significant as you thought it would. You hope that there aren't more bad surprises than you think there are going to be. PagerDuty's been so unique, in that there have been more good surprises than bad surprises. There's so much potential to unlock in the business. But probably the thing that's most amazing about it is the people, the community, and the culture around PagerDuty, and just the sense of alliance towards making the engineering world work better to insure that customer experience and employee experience is better. There's just a real sense of duty there, and there's a sense that the community is there with you trying to make it happen, as opposed to working against you. So a lot of our innovation this year, and I mean, we've released tons of new technology product, including machine learning and analytics, and going from reactive and responsive to proactive. There's a lot of stuff happening. So much of that has come from input from our practitioner community and our customer base. You just don't always have that kind of vocal engagement, that proactive, constructive engagement from your customer base, so that's just been amazing. And the team's awesome. We've expanded into the UK and western Europe over this summer. We opened an office in Sydney recently. We've shifted from being a single-product company to a platform company. We've more than doubled in size, 150 people to over 350 people. We're in 130 countries now, in terms of where our customer base lives, and just around 10 thousand customers, so really, really amazing progress. Sometimes I feel like we're a little bit of a teenage prodigy, you know? We're growing super fast, other kids are starting to learn how to play the piano. It's a little awkward, but we're still really good at what we do. I think the thing that keeps us out in front is our commitment, and all of our efforts being in service to making both the lives better of the practitioners in our community, and creating quantifiable value for our enterprise customers. >> It's interesting to focus on the duty, because that kind of came with the old days of when you were the person that had to wear the pager, right? Whether you're a doctor on call, or you were the IT person. So it's an interesting metaphor, even though probably most of the kids here have never seen a pager. >> No, I remember as a kid, my dad was in healthcare, and he had a pager, and you knew that when the pager went off, it was time. You were on-duty, you were out. And there's an honor in duty, and it is a service to the organization. Adrian Cockcroft was here this morning, VP of architecture from AWS, and known for cloud architecture that he built out at Netflix. And he said something really interesting, which is, he believes all people should be on-call, because you need the pain to go where it's most useful. And if everybody's on-call, it also creates this kind of self-fulfilling cycle. If you know you're going to be on-call, you build better code. If you know you're going to be on-call on the weekend, you don't ship something stupid on Friday night. If you know you're going to be on-call and you're a non-technical person, you align yourselves with people who are technical that can help you when that happens. So there's something sort of magical that happens when you do have that culture of being available on the spot when things don't go as planned. >> And now you've got a whole new rash of technology that you can apply to this, in the area of artificial intelligence and machine learning. Wonder if you could share a little bit, where is that now taking you for the next step? >> I think the biggest opportunity with machine learning for us is that, over the last eight years, we've been collecting a tremendous amount of data. And AI and machine learning are only as good as the data they sit on top of. So we have three really interesting data sets. We have the events and the signals that come from all of the machine instrumentation, the applications, the monitoring environment, the ticketing platforms that we integrate directly to. We have information around the workflow, what works best for most of our customers, what doesn't work. What's the best agile-centric DevOps related workflow that enables ultimate response and ultimate availability and resilience for customers. And then finally, what's going on with the people? Who are the people that work the hardest for you? Who are the people that have the subject matter expertise to be the most useful when things aren't working the way they should? You bring all of that together, and you build a model that starts to learn, which immediately means you can automate a lot of manual process. You can improve the quality of decisions, because you're making those decisions in context. An example would be, if an incident pops up, we see it in the form of a signal or a set of events. And our machine learning will recognize that we've actually seen those events before. And the last time this happened, here's what the outcome was, here's what went well and not so well, here's how you fixed it, and here's the person who was on top of it, here's the expert you need to call. So I've immediately shortened the distance between signal and action. I've gotten the people, now, that are going to come in to that process to respond to either a problem or an opportunity, are already much more prepared to be successful quickly, efficiently, and effectively. >> So you've shortened it and you've increased the probability of success dramatically. >> Exactly. And maybe you don't even need a person. That person can go off and do other more important proactive work. >> But you're all about people. And we first met when you were at Keynote and we brought you out for a Women in Tech interview. So you had a thing on Tuesday night that I want for you to share. What did you do Tuesday night? >> I was just super moved and inspired and excited. I've had the opportunity to attend lots of diversity events, lots of inclusion events, a lot of support groups, I'm asked to speak a lot on behalf of women and under-represented minorities, and I appreciate that, and I see that as my own civic duty to help lead the way and set an example, and reach back for other people and help develop younger women and minorities coming up. But I've found that a lot of these events, it's a bunch of women sitting in a room talking about all the challenges that we're facing. And I don't need to spend more time identifying the problem. I understand the problem. What I really wanted to do was bring together a group of experts who have seen success, who have a demonstrable track record for overcoming some of these barriers and challenges, and have taken that success and applied it into their own organizations, and sort of beating the averages in terms of building inclusive, diverse teams and companies. So Tuesday was all about one, creating a fun environment, we had cocktails, we had entertainment, it was in a great venue at Dirty Habit, where we could have a proactive, constructive, action-oriented conversation about things that are working. Things that you can hear from a female leader who's a public company executive, and take that directly back to your teams. Expert career advice, how some of these women have achieved what they have. And we just had a phenomenal lineup. Yvonne Wassenaar, who's the CEO of Airware, and Andreessen Horowitz come, theCUBE alumni, previously CIO at New Relic. We had Merline Saintil, who's the head of operations for all of product and technology for Intuit. Sheila Jordan, the CIO of Symantec. We had Alvina Antar, who's the CIO at Zuora. And, I'm missing one ... Oh, Rathi Murthy, the CTO at the Gap. And so, just quite an incredible lineup of executives in their own right. The fact that they happen to be a diverse group of women was just all the more interesting. And then we surprised the organization. After about 45 minutes of this discussion, sharing key learning, sharing best practices, we brought in the San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus, who are just embarking, in the next 10 days, on a trip called the Lavender Pen Tour, where they're looking to spread love, hope, and social justice, and proof that diversity delivers results, in the southern states, where equality equals gender equality, and I think challenges for equal opportunity for the LGBTQ community are really significant. And Mikkel Svane, who's the CEO of Zendesk, introduced me to Chris, the director there, about a week before, and I was so inspired by what they're doing. This is a group of 450 volunteers, who have day jobs, who perform stunning shows, beautiful music together, that are going to go on four buses for 11 days around the Deep South, and I think, make a big difference. And they're taking the Oakland Interfaith Gospel Choir with them. So just really cool. So they came, and I mean, when's the last time you went to a diversity event and people were singing, and dancing, and toasting? It was just really different, and everybody walked away learning something new, including the number of male executives, champions that I asked to come as my special guest, to support people in building sponsorship, to support these women and these under-represented minorities in finding connections that can help them build their own careers, they learned a lot at the event. It was incredible. I'm really proud of it, and it's the start of something special. >> I love it. I mean, you bring such good energy, both at your day job, and also in this very, very important role that you play, and it's great that you've embraced that, and not only take it seriously, but also have some fun. >> What's the point if you're not going to have fun? You apply the growth mindset to one of the biggest problems in the industry, and you hack it the same way you would a deeply technical problem, or a huge business problem. And when we get constructive and focused like that, amazing things happen. And so I now have people begging to be on the next panel, and we're trying to find the next venue, and got to come up with a name for it, but this is a thing. >> And oh, by the way, there's better business outcomes as well. >> I mean, I did a ton of business that night. Half that panel were customers that are continuing to invest and partner with PagerDuty, and we're excited about the future. And some of those women happen to be machine learning experts, for instance. So, great opportunity for me to partner and get advice on some of the new innovation that we've undertaken. >> Well, Jennifer, thanks for inviting us to be here. We love to keep up with you and everything that you're doing, both before and in your current journey. And congrats on a great event. >> My pleasure. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. >> She's Jennifer Tejada, I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE from PagerDuty Summit. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit 2017, the second year at this event in downtown San Francisco, downtown Pier 27 out on the water. Beautiful day outside, and we're really excited to have the CFO of this fast growing company. He's Steven Gatoff, as I said, CFO of PagerDuty. Steven, nice to see you. >> Right on, thanks. Good to be here. >> Absolutely. So you've been with the company since January, so relatively new and yet you've been here for a funding round, things are moving. We've just had Jennifer on, she's just always full of energy. So first off, welcome to the company. And what attracted you to PagerDuty? >> A lot, particularly the whole disruption, the whole notion of driving change. If not even defining a new industry. The ability, and kind of from a financial standpoint also of seeing a company and a product evolve from a very cool software tool to an operations platform. And that is something that I was lucky enough to do at my last company, at Rapid7, where it was a similar journey and value creation exercise of moving from tool to platform, and disrupting an industry. And we did it there in the security space, in cybersecurity, and it was a great run. And then I got lucky enough to get connected with Jennifer and the team here, and realized there was a similar journey, similar value prop, albeit in a much larger TAM across all of operations. >> It's funny the kind of stepping function of: Is it a feature or is it a tool? Or is it an application? And of course everybody wants to get to the platform play, but nobody's got a line-item that they need to purchase a new platform in Q4, 2017. So you really need to have that application focused to lay the groundwork for the platform play, but if you can make the transition, obviously a huge opportunity. >> So that's a great, we should have you engage with customers because that is spot on, particularly here, and I think that's some of the excitement about the summit, because it's really the first coming out, if you will, for us of digital operations management, where we have been so successful in the past at the tool level, with the practitioner, with helping make their lives better, and all of that value-creation around what they do, and then a little bit of the context, it's sometimes better to be a little lucky than smart with some hard investment and input that we've done in the product that has evolved to the platform notion, but as you you've heard and talked with people, it's starting to come to fruition. With the whole notion of decentralization of operations, of the whole disappearance of centralized command and control across organization. It's kind of a modern-day digital ops analogy to software rules the world. It's really digital and cloud rules the world. So people need to do their job, and they need to focus on what creates value, whether it's marketing or finance, or software development, and with all of the influx of tools that they use, whether it's applications or infrastructure, we have this neat little niche where we're able to provide people the visibility and the knowledge to know what's going on and how things are working so they can focus on what they do, and that's pretty cool. >> So everybody's a software company now, right? Everybody's delivering software wrapped in some type of product or service. We hear that all the time, but I'm just curious to get your perspective from a CFO. Obviously public company CFOs have very specific tasks that they are given based on regulations, governments and stuff, but you're not there yet, in terms of the company, so what are some of the things that a CFO does in this stage of a company where you can really impact the growth. What do you do day-to-day besides just filing quarterlies and these types of activities. >> Hopefully someone else is going to be focused on that. The most fun about the role and the real value-add is really providing support and insight and visibility to the rest of the company. So kind of an Uber service provider to our stakeholders, to our exec team, to our employees, to our board and investors, and what we're really trying to do is provide a CFO, provide visibility to what happened, how have we done, what has the performance been, what did we think it was going to be, and why did that happen, and then visibility going forward. What is the road ahead look like, financially? Where are we growing, how are we growing, how are we investing our funds, what kind of returns are we getting from a profile of investment of cost versus what it generates in revenue and yield. That's the fun part about bringing people along on that journey. Whether they're in finance or marketing, that people understand what we're investing in, what they're investing in, what the returns are from that, and how we grow in scale. >> Growing and scaling is really interesting, right? Because growing and scaling is a good thing, but there's also some bad parts of growing and scaling. There's the joke like B to C guy. Guess what: you just got to order from Wal-Mart, good news. Bad news: you just got to order from Wal-Mart. You better start building stuff. >> Be careful what you ask for. >> Managing growth is an interesting dynamic, because you don't want to get too far over your skis, and yet, especially here in Silicon Valley, where it's all about growth. You're not a big throwing-off-dividends, cash company, AT&T back in the day. So when you look at some of the factors, what are some of the things to think about that maybe people don't really think about when you're trying to map out your growth. You guys are going international, just put a few extra bucks in the bank. >> I'll tell ya, one of the most significant things that is very difficult, very easy and obvious to say and talk about, is the whole dynamic of introducing the ability for a company to scale and do things well in large format at low costs, low friction, and not become a bureaucracy. So not to introduce too much process, too much control, too much front-end prevention, while at the same time, making sure people are doing smart things, that you're doing smart business, that people aren't getting too far out over their skis on committing capital, or committing the company to do something. You want to support people by putting in the big three: people, process, and technology in a way that the company can grow without hindering growth. You see that in so many different areas as you grow and you start building up your finance functions and you put in ERP systems, so you don't want it to be too cumbersome. Similarly, you bring functions like legal in-house. In some companies I've been at, folks get really nervous. Like: Oh no, now we're going to have a no person killing deals. The nice thing that I've experienced here at PagerDuty is that the sales folks have really yearned and craved that input and leadership, saying "hey, when are we getting "a new head of legal, when are we getting a team "to come help us craft deals and drive things forward?" So it's a little bit of an art, less a science insofar as bringing in resources, putting in processes, putting in systems to help marketing, sales, engineering-- really those three, do their craft and do it well with less friction and without more bureaucracy and too much oversight. >> One more question. As you've seen the growth of open source, and API economy, and a platform versus an application where you get much more value by opening up the API to a broader community, and yet at the same time maybe you're not protecting quite the same level of IP protection which, before, everything was kept in-house. We had no open source projects, and it was all of our IP. But really, the former is proving to be a much more valuable way to go to market. As you've seen that evolve, what's your take on it? Obviously you got a good ecosystem that is developing here. There's a big expo hall upstairs. It's a very different way to build value. >> It is, and in my humble opinion, it's really based on the user, and for me that's the most significant metric of value creation. At the end of the day, how many users do you have on your platform? And if you look at it from that perspective, the driver to getting users to come into the platform is an open, high integration, user-based focus on what they can use, not a walled garden approach. So the value comes in what you're able to do, not the propriety of your code. In that regard, having a high integration-- the whole PagerDuty text stack is about integrating with 200+ different applications and pieces of infrastructure so that users can, therefore, get the greatest value from everything else they're investing in and spending on. So you've created a valuable company like RedHat and other folks have, based on the ultimate of open source, where you provide a valuable service that is not necessarily the propriety of your code-- to your point, intellectual property, Albeit, there's a pretty decent amount there, it's really the competitive advantage, the time to market, the heavy lifting and steep curve on being able to integrate everything that's out there, correlate what's out there, too, which is a difficult task and takes a lot of time and money to learn and get good at, and that in and of itself is a tremendous amount of value to users. >> Well, Steven, great insights and enjoy your journey. I'm sure Jennifer will keep you movin' and hustlin' down the road. Thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day. >> Thank you. >> All right, he's Steven, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit 2017 in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)