>>Hello from Las Vegas. It's the cube live at AWS reinvent 2021, Lisa Martin and Dave Nicholson here. We're in our fourth day, Dave, we have two live sets of the kid. There's a dueling set right across from us, kind of like dueling pianos, only a little bit louder. We have had about a hundred guests on the program at AWS reinvent this year. And we're pleased to welcome back. One of our alumni, Richard Potter joins us the CEO of peak. Richard. Welcome back to the cube. >>Great to be here. Talk to >>Us. So we haven't seen you in a couple of years. Talk to us about what's going on at pink. I know there's some news. >>Yeah, yeah. Loads of things going on at peak. I mean, we've been growing really quick. So since the last time you saw us, which was yeah, in London a few years ago, uh, we've grown to be the, sort of essentially the global leader in decision intelligence systems. Um, us as an AI company, we specialize in putting artificial intelligence right into the heart of how companies run their businesses and make their day-to-day decisions, which is why we call it decision intelligence. We think it's the biggest thing in software and, uh, probably the biggest new category of software. Um, we will see this decade. So it's super exciting to be in that position and great to be back chatting to you guys on the cube. When were you based founded? We were founded in 2016. Uh, and, uh, yeah. And you can probably tell by my accent English company headquartered in Manchester, but we're global. Now we have operations in India. We have a couple of development centers in India. We have a growing customer base in Asia and a growing customer base in the U S as well. Uh, so yeah, we're kind of international, but born out of, uh, Northern English roots. >>I like it. Talk to me about back in 2016, what were some of the gaps in the market that you saw from a, because you know, as, as here we are in almost 20, 22, every company is a data company. They have to be being able to extract intelligence timely hard. What gaps did you see back in 2016 >>Back then a read on the market was really simple, which was the companies that are going to harness data to run themselves well, we'll win, but the most companies were struggling to make that change to be data-driven. So our rich was, you know, as founders, there's three of us who started the business was trying to explore that problem. Like what, what, what stops companies running on data? And there's loads of reasons, right? Tech ones, uh, skills, ones, even just like business people using data in their day-to-day decision-making rather than say their gut-feel, which I think is also a data-driven decision. They just don't understand that necessarily. Uh, so we really honed in on that problem and we grew quite quickly to be the leading business in that sort of applied data space in the UK, you know, a market leader in, uh, helping companies perform better with data. And over time that has taken us on this journey to be the sort of global leader in decision intelligence, which is really cool. But the itch we were scratching was that, Hey, you know, there's something in this, we think companies that do this and do it well are gonna win, but no one's doing it. So why is that? And then, and then we've built software that effectively responds to that opportunity. >>You mentioned harnessing data. Yeah. How do you balance the harnessing of data successfully with being harnessed by data? Because, because if you're talking about the concept of Dai yeah. Who's making the decision. If the machine is making the decision, I better trust it. Why should I trust it? So how do you, how do you strike that balance to get people to trust what you're doing? The work you're doing for them behind the scenes? Yeah, >>I think it's, it's really important that humans trust the machines that they're working alongside. And I think that's the big change we're seeing, right? So this is a new industrial revolution, the intelligence era that we're in, but all previous industrial revolutions have all amplified human potential. They've amplified like a physical potential, whether it was, you know, machinery, steam, power and so on, or computers have amplified our cognitive capability, but humans have always controlled those machines. If you think about it now in the intelligence era, our machines can think with us, they can think alongside us. So we have to learn how to, as people, how to co-exist with those machines and then let those machines amplify us and essentially make us superhuman and what we do. And that's a part of the challenge we face at peak as to how do we make, how do we humanize that? >>How do we make it such that everyone trusts the machine? Uh, and we always have that human in the loop is the way we think about it. Uh, decision intelligence empowers us to be awesome at our jobs, make the great decisions all the time. If we trust the machine so much that we just want it to make the decision for us, we can let it, but we're always in control and we're in control of how it thinks and what it does. And it's our job as a software company to build software that lets you understand why that recommendation or that decision is being suggested to you. So I think, I think the coexistence of our machines alongside people in a new way that a human to machine interface is going to completely change with artificial intelligence and decision intelligence and, and us as people we're going to have to relearn how we, how we work with our technology. >>You just mentioned a couple of really good words in terms of, of the people, part of people, process and technologies, amplify and empower. Those are two things that stuck out at me is that's what you're giving people in any, whether they're an operations or finance or marketing, it's the amplification to do their jobs, empowering them to do their jobs with data that will help make them more skilled and better able to make decisions that benefit themselves, the company. >>That's exactly right. Yeah, because if you, if you redact doing business to its basics, it's, it's actually just making decisions, right. Companies are make great decisions. They win and those decisions could be anything, you know, they could be product decisions, they could be pricing decisions, operational supply chain decisions, but it's a sequence of decisions that creates value for my company. And so that's why I believe this technology is so empowering because as people we're, we're actually great at making those decisions. What we're not great at is making those decisions 24 by seven really, really quickly, very consistently. So, you know, humans are awesome at forecasting. They're awesome at choosing pricing that would appeal to other people, but alongside this technology, we can have machines that do a lot of that thinking for us, speed us up and help us make more, um, quick, great consistently awesome decisions. And then that just makes us great at our jobs. If you're a marketeer or in finance or in supply chain, you, you become awesome. And I think that that, that empowerment is key to the sort of humanization of AI in business. And actually that's what it means in practice. It isn't AI coming for peoples' jobs or replacing jobs. It's it's AI helping us all be gray. And our companies grow faster with wider profit margins when we do that, which creates more jobs for people, which is really cool. >>So, um, we talk about people trusting machines to do things for them. Uh, it's, it's not necessarily a new concept. We just sort of take some of those things for granted. Um, I trust my refrigerator at home to measure the internal temperature and make adjustments as necessary. Turn the compressor on, turn the compressor off. And I'm sorry, I you're from England refrigerators, this thing, it's a box. We use it to refrigerate our beer, which I took to make it >>Cold, which I know. >>So it's kind of a, you know, got to love those cliches, but so can you give us an example of a situation where a customer is trusting something that it's gotten from DEI from peak, where if you, as the CEO heard that anecdotal story, you would be absolutely delighted. >>Well, I think the earth is loads of great examples of that. So, um, the reason we call it decision intelligence decision intelligence is because it's the, it's applying AI into the active decision making, right? Uh, artificial intelligence or machine learning is making a prediction or a categorization over a huge data set. Right? But that on its own is kind of useless. You need to take that prediction that forward looking view and then effectively infuse it with business logic constraints and like knowledge of how your company works to give you a recommendation. Right? So let's just say I'm a marketeer and I'm trying to work out who I should send a particular offer to on black Friday over email, or even not even over email over any channel. When, if I, if I was CEO and I heard one of my teams say, Hey, what I've done is I've used the decision intelligence platform to tell me who buy, who are my customers that are in market for X type of products at why kind of price and what channels do they like to be communicated to over? >>Uh, I would think that's awesome. And then that market here, we're typically infuse that message with the sort of language and content that would appeal to that customer. But they're using the artificial intelligence to be super targeted and really like deliver the message to that person in the way they want to consume it, which creates a really enjoyable experience as a customer. You don't feel spammed or you don't feel like it's effectively used. You feel like you're having a direct one-to-one personal communication with the brand or retailer. That's talking to you, which in itself creates loyalty and like increases the lifetime value of that relationship, which is great for the retailer. But I think using AI for those kinds of decisions is essentially like a great example of like amplifying the human potential of a marketing team for this. >>Absolutely. Because what we expect as consumers, regardless of what the product or service is, is that we want brands to know who we are, what we want. Don't if I just bought a tent on Amazon, don't show me more tests, show me other things that go with it. I want you to know that. And so we have this expectation that brands when whatever industry they're in, no, oh, Richard bought this. >>Exactly, exactly. So, and I think that it starts to really jar. Now you've got some retailers and brands doing this really well, and you get really enjoyable, uh, communications at the frequency you want with the offers and the promotions that were irrelevant to you. When you just start to get trapped, you know, effectively stalked around the internet for something you've already bought, it becomes really jarring and frustrating. And then that actually creates a negative brand effect for that particular brand. So it's super important that these retailers, CPG com everyone really moves to this way of thinking and tries to have a direct. And that's the beauty of AI and decision intelligence. I think for retail, if we get into retail specifically, it allows us to treat every individual customer individually because we can use the machine to make decisions on a per customer basis. And then our marketing can be amplified by that. Whereas in the past, we bucketed customers into groups and just treated them all the same, which does create a rather impersonal experience. >>Yeah. Which can be a negative for a brand, as you mentioned, but give them the ability to treat people individually, but at scale, and in real time, one of the things we learned in the pandemic is that real-time data access isn't no is not a nice to have. It's an essential one of the themes too, that Dave and I have been talking about the last few days is that we're hearing at re-invent is every company has to be a data company. Yep. Talk to me about with that in mind, are you talking to more chief data officers, chief digital officers, where are your customer conversations as we've we're in this explosion of data? >>It's a great question though. So if every company has to be a data company and a company that's powered by AI, that means you have to be talking to everyone really. So your chief data, chief chief information officers, chief data officers, CEO, CFOs, and every sort of head of business, head of line of business, it's really important. So what we do at peak is as a decision intelligence platform, peak itself, unifies everything you need in one cloud platform, into a single software product that gives you all the infrastructure for your technical teams to process data for your data scientists to create the intelligence, but then it gives you a place to work for your business teams. So unifies your whole business around a platform. And then that means our conversations. As you know, as the provider of that technology are with technical teams, they're with business teams, they're with business leaders because it has to permeate everything. So I think it's, I think that's the future companies will have to effectively run alongside they'll create their own intelligence, basically on a dedicated platform like peek. And that intelligence will then be distributed across the whole business, um, with w w you know, in the way we do it. So I think it's really cool and exciting. Yeah. >>Let let's say hypothetically, now this is something that would never happen, but just hypothetically say I'm an American goes to England to take over coaching, a British soccer, soccer, or football. Okay. I sounds crazy, but how would I, how would I use peak and Dai and BI to help improve my winning percentage if I cared about winning? Because it's possible that I would, I I'm really only interested in the personal development of my, of my team as individuals, but, but, but what would in athletics? Is that something that is a, >>I think possible? Yeah, for sure. I mean, you're seeing an explosion of data science and analytics and AI techniques being used in sport. Right. I mean, peak we're very much focused on the commercial application of AI with our platform. So we, we work with, uh, commercial businesses and so on, but in that space, yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's, if you think about it, what do you need to create that intelligence? You need data and you can see it on the back of every players share. They've got the little devices that are gathering data in training in matches, constantly monitored. Those data points, feed algorithms. Those algorithms can show us if a player is fatigued, you know, where they are, or they can even show us, uh, deep learning techniques can help us see patterns of play and understand like how should we better set our teams up? How should we get players to interact in for, you know, on a soccer field? Um, and yeah, and you're seeing premier league clubs use those sort of techniques all the time. We don't do that at peak, but yeah, I mean, I think, uh, I think those sort of things are readily available now for, uh, those kinds of clubs to do that kind of stuff. >>I think Dave is angling to be a consultant on Ted last. So I think what I'm hearing last question for you, you guys are from an AWS relationship perspective. Richard, you guys were announced just yesterday, you're named by AWS as an ISB partner, APN partner of the year for 2021 for UK. And I, congratulations. Talk to us a little bit about that. >>Yeah, it was really, I kind of, yeah, it's super exciting for us. It's a great recognition. Obviously they give one of those awards out every year, uh, as a global company, it's nice to have that sort of stamp of approval that AWS sees us as their independent software vendor partner of the year. It's a, it's a great recognition for us because we come from a heritage of, uh, starting peak as a consulting company, actually just to do whatever it took to help our customers be successful. And in doing that, we had an idea for a software platform. Uh, we got some venture funding to do that, and we've turned into a, you know, we became a software company a couple of years after we founded, uh, and to get to this point now a few years later where AWS are recognizing us as their software vendor partner of the year is, um, a huge team. Fantastic. It's a huge Testament to, uh, to our engineering teams and the, and the, and the technical teams at peak that we've built something so impactful. Yeah, >>Absolutely. That validation is really, really critical. And last question in our last 30 seconds or so what are some of the things on the roadmap that you're excited for for, for peak for 20 22, 22 >>Is going to be a huge year for us. Cause I think it's the year that, uh, our platform goes out there into the wild, into the mainstream. So we made a couple of big announcements in the last few weeks. Uh, we've launched some new products on the pig platform. So there's three big platform, product sets. Now, one very much geared around creating your AI ready data set. That's called doc, uh, one that's very much geared around creating your intelligence, which is factory. And then an area where our business like the business teams of our customers go to work, which is called work actually. So those three big feature sets are going to be available from January. And the platform is being totally opened up as a self-serve platform for anyone anywhere to build upon. So I think it's a huge moment for decision intelligence. Garner is saying decision intelligence is the big tech trend of next year. And we feel as the market leader, we've got the platform that can help everyone get on, get on that trend really. So I think we're really looking forward to 2022 and what it brings. And, um, we think that our platform and our company is in a great shape to help more and more businesses take that leap into being powered by decision Intel. >>It sounds exciting, Richard, so we'll have to follow up with you next year and see what's going on. We appreciate you joining us on the cube, talking about peep, what you're doing, your relationship with AWS and how impactful decision intelligence can be for everybody. We appreciate it. Thanks for Dave Nicholson. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube, the global leader in live tech coverage.

>> live from London, England. It's the queue covering a ws summat. London twenty nineteen, Brought to you by Amazon Web services, >> come to the A. W s summit in London's Excel Center. I'm Susanna Street, and David Aunty is my co host today on the Cube. This means so much to talk about here at the summit today to do with machine learning and a I. And I'm really pleased to say that we have to really key people here to discuss this. We've got time. Tom Summerfield, who is head off commerce, a foot asylum on also Richard Potter, who is the CEO of Peak. Now you guys have really formed a partnership. Haven't you put asylum? Is a leisure wear really? Retailer started in bricks and mortar stores. Really moved online on Peak is a pioneer for artificial intelligence. System's really well to get together. What What sparked? Really your demands. Ready for their services, Tom. >> Yeah, well, so way knew that we needed to be doing something with data on A and we didn't really know exactly what it would be Way were interested in personalization, but then also in a bigger picture, like a wider digital transformation piece for the business where well established bricks, a martyr business, but then a fast growing online business. And we're interested to know how way could harness the momentum of the stores to help the digital side of the business and also vice versa. On we thought data would be the key, and we ended up having a conversation with the guys at Peak, and that's exactly what we've been able to do. Actually, on the back of that deliver, we're delivering a hyper personal experience for our consumers Now. >> I was one of the statue that I notice when looking into what you be doing, a twenty percent increase in email revenue. So that's quite remarkable, Really. So Richard, tell us, you know how you're able to do this? What kind of services that you lean on? T make those kind of result. >> It's a combination of a lot of things, really. You know, you obviously need people who know what they're doing from a returning a business perspective. Married with technical experts, data science algorithms, data. Um, I think specifically how we've done it is a pig's built, a fairly unique A I system that becomes almost like the central brain within our customers. Businesses on off that algorithms help automate certain business processes and deliver tangible uplifts in business performance like the twenty eight percent uplifting sales here, Um, in order to do it. So it's quite a long journey, I suppose. The outlook we took when we started collaborating was was that if we could deliver that hyper personalized shopping experience, we were always going to be ableto show customers the right product at the right time. And if we were doing that that we would lead Toa High brand engagement, higher loyalty higher on higher lifetime values of customers. And that's and that's what's shown to be the case in silent example. >> Yeah, definitely that echo that. You know that the high profits hypothesis wass If you can show the right custom of the right product at the right time, then their purchase frequency average order Volumetrics all start to move positively and ultimately than affecting their long term engagement with our brand, which increases revenue on also delivers a more, you know, a frictionless consumer experience, hopefully for the customer, >> because I suppose your experience is the same. So many companies out there they're sitting on this huge pile of data, yet they don't know how to best optimize that data. When did you first realize, Richard that there was this kind of gap in the market for Pete to grow? >> Yeah, I think data and analytics have come on a bit of a journey away from common sense reporting tio more advanced analytics. But when you get a I and machine learning what you're talking about, his algorithms being our self learning make predictions about things that actually fundamentally changes the way businesses can operate on DH. And in this case, a great example is you know, we're sending hyper personalized marketing communications, Teo, every single for silent customer. They don't realize necessarily that they are tailored to them, but they just become more relevant. But it doesn't require a digital marketing to create every single one of those campaigns or emails and even trigger the sending of those materials. Brain takes care of that. It can automate it. And what the marketer needs to do is it's faded, engaging content and set up digital campaigns. And then and then and then you're left with this capability where eyes saying you might be a market for this product. Let's let's send you something that might appeal to you on DH that just gives that gives a marketing team scale. And then, as we move into other use cases like in the supply chain for film and delivery of product the same thing the team's just get huge scale out of letting algorithms do those things for them. Andi, I suppose the realization for us that there was that gap in the market was just that you can see the out performance of certain cos you can see that Amazon attributes five percent of their sales to their machine learning recommendation systems. I think Netflix says eighty five percent of all content is consumed >> because it's Al Burns. Andi. Companies >> like that can harness machine learning to such a great degree. How does how did howto other businesses do it? Who can't access that talent pool of Silicon Valley or along the global? You know, the global talent leaders in tech and that's that's where we had the insight that his peak way could create a company that gave our custom is that that technology and that capability Teo deliver that same kind results that the Amazon and Netflix >> so before the Internet brand's had all the power you could price however you wanted if you overprice, nobody even even knew. And the Internet was sort of like the revenge of the consumer. Aye, aye, And data now gives the brands the ability to learn more about its customers. But you have to be somewhat careful, don't you? Because their privacy concerns obviously DPR etcetera. So you have to have a value proposition for the customer, as you were saying, which they made are you know that machine is providing these offers, but they get value out of it. So how do you guys think about that in terms of experience for the customer? And how do you draw that balance? >> I think from my angle, that Richard touch on a couple of bits there to do it scale first and foremost across the entire alarm on Thai network of consumers is killer element to it. But to deliver that personal experience, I think consumers nowadays are so they're more expectant of this. Really. We would have considered it innovation a couple of years ago, but now actually it's expected, I think, from the consumer. So it's actually in the name ofthe You have to move forward to stand still. So but way think where we're right at the front of this at the moment. And we're really looking now how we optimize the journey for the consumer so that actually we know if we're from some transactional data that we have in a little bit of over behavioral data that, you know, we're really conscious of the whole GDP, our peace and stuff, and that's really, really relevant and super important. Andi, I'm pleased to say that you know, we have that. We know that by a peek, it's completely on lock down from that perspective as >> well. Where did the data's where the data source of comfort. You mentioned some transaction data. Where is the other day to come from using show social data and behavioral data? Where does that come? >> So those elements of social data, some of it is a little bit black box. You can't always access it, and that's a GDP, our peace there, and rightly so. Actually, in some cases we have a loyalty scheme which allows us to understand our Kashima's better in our bricks and mortar retail, which is really cool that we've got some of that transactional data on a customer level from the stars. We know that some people in our sector maybe don't have that, so that so that allows us to complete sort of single customer view, which then we can aggregate in peaks brain, then transaction data on the website in the app and bits off browsing, you know, just within our own network. You know where customs potentially being and reacted with somethin. A piece of content. Janet within the website, that's that's how we build that view. >> Do you think this is the way that more bricks and more two stores Khun survive? Because so many are closing in high streets up down the UK and in other countries because simply they're not really delivering what the customer wants? >> Yeah, I think so. We rich now. Both feel quite strongly now that wear so onto this now a little bit. It's a really As as our relationship for the two businesses has evolved, it's become clearer and clearer that actually we've armed with this. You know this data, our fingertips, we can actually breathe fresh life into the stores, and it's in the eye of proper true Omnichannel retailing way. Don't mind where the cost consumer spends the money. We just need to be always on in a connected environment so that A Z said before pushing the right product at the right time. And when they're when they're in market, we turn up the mark the message a little bit. But then understanding when they're not in market and maybe to back off him and maybe we warn them what with a little bit of a different type of message then and actually we're trapped with one challenge ourselves to send but less better marketing communications to our consumers. But absolutely that store piece is now, so we tail back. Our store opening strategy is a business to focus more on the digital side of things, but now it's possible that way might open some more stores now, but it will be with a more reform strategy of wet, wet where, why we need to do that? >> Isn't this ironic? The brick and mortar marketplaces getting disrupted by online retailers, obviously Amazons, that big whale in the marketplace, and your answer to that is to use Amazons, cloud services and artificial intelligence to pave the way for your future. Yeah, I mean, that's astounding when you think about >> me. Yeah, this sort of unified commerce approach, Tio, you know, there's a place in the world for shops. It's like it's not Romance isn't completely dead and going shopping. It turns out, you know so on. Actually, yeah, we're using honesty in the eight of us, but we'LL hire our friends at Peak. Yeah, it's it's some irony there. I think it's really cool. >> And that decision that you made obviously wasn't made made lightly. But you saw the advantages of working with the clouds outweighing the potential trade offs of competition. >> Yeah, I mean, that's not that was never really, really no, I'm certainly not know. I think this is something that is happening, that data, and on harnessing it in a safe, responsible, effective way, I believe, is the future of all commerce. So >> that as far as security is concerned because, of course, we have had data breaches your customers, credit card details, access. How do you ensure that it's as secure as possible in the way that you you you choose the services I think >> that come that just comes down to best practice infrastructure on the way we look at it, a peak is there's no bear tools in the world to do that, then the same technologies that Amazon themselves use. It's to do with how you configure those services until ls to make it secure, you know, And if you have an unsecure open database on a public network, of course that's not secure. But you could have the same thing in your own infrastructure, and it wouldn't be secure. So I think the way we look at it is exactly the same thing on actually, being in the Amazon prime for us gives us a greater comfort, particularly in terms of co location of date centers and like making sure that our application fails over into different locations. It gives us infrastructure we couldn't afford otherwise, and then on top of that, we get all these extra pieces of technology that can make us even more secure than we could do. Otherwise we'd have to wait, have to employ an army of infrastructure engineers, and we don't have to do that because we run on Yes. >> Okay, so we were able to eliminate all that heavy lifting. That same goes. You've got this corpus of data. I'm interested in how long it took to get through. A POC trained the models how much data science was involved. How much of a heavy lift was that? Yeah, well, I think for >> us we better be pretty rapid. Actually, we started working together in January last year, so we're only just sort of year into that. >> And in that faith in that entire >> sofa length of of our relationship, we've gone from high for personalizing digital campaigns to recommendation systems on a website to now optimizing customer acquisition on social media and then finally into the supply chain and optimizing demand and so on it. And I think there's >> a lot of reasons >> why we've been able to do it quickly. But that's fundamental to the technologies that the peak is built. There's two. There's two sides to it. Our technologies cut out a lot of the friction so way didn't run a proof of concept. We were able to just pick it up, run with it and deliver value. And that's to do with I think, the product that peak is built. But then you obviously need a a customer who's who's going on a transformation journey and is hungry to make that make that stick in London on. Then when the two come together, >> I think that it's an interesting point that, though, because while suite for asylum, we always I always say it's that we're not. We're not massive, but we're not tiny, but it's the sort place you Khun turn upon a Monday and say, I've had an idea about something and we're not doing it by Friday. That's That's a nice, agile culture. It can create some drama as well. Possibly. I think it's really straightforward to get straight into it. And I think this is where some of the bigger, um, sleepier high street retailers that Amar, fixed in a in a brick from our world, needs to not be too afraid to come out and start embracing it, because I think some of them are trying now. I think it might be a little bit late for some now, but it's just it's just it just wasn't that hard really to get going >> and you've seen the business results, can you share any measurements? or quantification. We've >> got a really a really good one that we're just talking about at the moment. Actually, Way were able to use segmentation tools within within the peak brain Teo to use them on Social than Teo. Create lookalike audiences. So Facebook Custom tools, Right? We'LL help you create audiences that it thinks you're the right buyer. It's complex algorithms itself, but we almost took a leap ahead of their algorithms by fire, our algorithms uploading our own segments to create a more sophisticated lookalike audience. We produced a row US results or return on that spend. People are not familiar with that of eight thousand four hundred percent, which Wei would normally be happy as a business, we've sort of seven, eight hundred percent. If you're running that that we've say on AdWords campaign or something like that, that's quite efficient campaign. So it's at zero. We were a bit like it felt like it's a mistake that, you >> know that is >> not the right, >> Yeah, but not so that's super cool. And that's really that's really opened our eyes to the potential of punishing that the, you know, our sort of piquet I brain to then bring it onto Social on. Do more outward. Advertise on there. >> So moving the goal post meant that your teeth are really high school. Thank you. Thank you very much for telling us all about that time someone feels on which floor. Sir. Thank you for joining me and David Auntie here at the eight of US Summit in London. Merchant to come on the King.

>> live from London, England. Q. Covering A Ws summat. London twenty nineteen Brought to you by Amazon Web services >> to the A. W s Summit in London's Excel Center home. Susanna Street and David is my co host today on the Cube. They mean so much to talk about here at the summit today to do with machine learning an A I and I'm really pleased to say that we have to really key people here to discuss this. But we've got some Tom Summerfield who is head off commerce, a foot asylum on also Richard Potter, who is the CEO of Peak. Now, you guys have really formed a partnership, haven't you? Foots asylum is a leisure wear really. Retailer started in bricks and mortar stores. Really moved online on Peak has been a pioneer for artificial intelligence systems really well to get together. What what comes? Sparked Really your demands ready for their services, Tom? >> Yeah, well, so way knew that we needed to be doing something with data on A and we didn't really know exactly what it would be way were interested in personalization, but then also in a bigger picture, like a wider digital transformation piece for the business where well established bricks, a martyr business but a fast grow in online business. And we're interested to know how we could harness the momentum of the stores to help the digital side of the business and also vice versa. On we thought data would be the key, and we ended up having a conversation with the guys at Peak, and that's exactly what we've been able to do. Actually, on the back of that deliver, we're delivering a hyper personal experience for our consumers Now. >> I was one of the statue that I notice when looking into what you be doing, a twenty percent increase in email revenue. So that's quite remarkable, really. So Richard, tell us you how you're able to do this. What kind of services that you lean on? T make those kind of result. >> It's a combination of a lot of things, really. You know, you obviously need people who know what they're doing from a returning a business perspective. Married with technical experts, data science algorithms, data, I think specifically how we've done is picks built a fairly unique A I system that becomes almost like the central brain within our customers businesses on off that algorithms help automate certain business processes and deliver tangible uplifts in business performance like the twenty eight percent up lift in sales here, Um, in order to do it. So it's quite a long journey, I suppose. The outlook we took when we started collaborating was was that if we could deliver that hyper personalized shopping experience, we were always going to be ableto show customers the right product at the right time. And if we were doing that that we would lead Tio Hi brand engagement, higher loyalty, higher on higher lifetime values of customers. And that's and that's what's shown to be the case in a silent example. >> Yeah, definitely that echo that. You know that the hypothesis hypothesis, wass. If you can show the right custom of the right product at the right time, then their purchase frequency average order Volumetrics all starts move positively and ultimately than affecting their long term engagement with our brand, which increases revenue on also delivers a more, you know, a frictionless consumer experience, hopefully for the customer, >> because I suppose your experience is the same. So many companies out there they're sitting on this huge pile of data, yet they don't know how to best optimize that data. When did you first realize, Richard that there was this kind of gap in the market for Pete to grow? >> Yeah. I think data and analytics have come on a bit of a journey away from common sense reporting Thio more advanced analytics. But when you get a I and machine learning what you're talking about, his algorithms being our self learning make predictions about things, and that actually fundamentally changes the way businesses can operate on DH. And in this case, a great example is you know, we're sending hyper personalized marketing communications, Teo every single foot silent customer. Um, they don't realize necessarily that they are tailored to them, but they just become more relevant. But it doesn't require a digital marketed to create every single one of those campaign or emails and even triggered the sending of those materials. The brain takes care of that. It can automate it. And what the marketer needs to do is feed it engaging content and set up digital campaigns. And then and then and then you're left with this capability where eyes saying you might be a market for this product. Let's let's send you something that might appeal to you on DH that just gives that gives a marketing team scale. And then, as we move into other use cases like in the supply chain for film and delivery of product the same thing that teams just get huge scale out of letting algorithms do those things for them. Andi, I suppose the realization for us that there was that gap in the market was just that you can see the out performance of certain cos you can see that Amazon attributes thirty five percent of their sales to their machine learning recommendation systems. I think Netflix says eighty five percent of all content is consumed >> in prison. It's Al Burns. Andi. Companies >> like that can harness machine learning to such a great degree. How does how do you know howto other businesses do it? Who can't access that talent pool of Silicon Valley or along the global? You know, the global talent leaders in tech and that's that's what we have. The insight that is Peak Way could create a company that gave our system is the that technology and that capability Teo deliver that same kind results that the Amazon and Netflix >> So before the Internet Yeah. Brand's had all the power you could price however you wanted if you overprice, nobody even even knew. And the Internet was sort of like the revenge of the consumer. Aye, aye. And data. How gives the brands the ability to learn more about its customers. But you have to be somewhat careful, don't you? Because your privacy concerns, obviously. Gpr etcetera. So you have to have a value proposition for the customer, as you were saying, which they may not even know that machine is providing these offers. Yeah, but they get value out of it. So how do you guys think about that in terms of experience for the customer? And how do you draw that balance? >> I think from my angle that Richard touch on a couple of bits there to do it scale first and foremost across the entire all on on Thai network of consumers is killer element to it. But to deliver that personal experience, I think consumers nowadays are so they're more expectant of this. Really? We would have considered it innovation a couple of years ago, but now Actually, it's expected, I think, from the consumer. So it's actually in the name ofthe You have to move forward to stand still. So but way Think we're We're right at the front of this at the moment. And we're really looking now how we optimize the journey for the consumer so that actually we know if we're from Simpson transactional data that we have in a little bit of over behavioral data that, you know, we're really conscious of the whole GDP, our peace and stuff, and that's really, really relevant and super important. Andi, I'm pleased to say that you know, we have that backed by a peek. It's completely on lock down from that perspective as >> well. Where do the data's where the data source of comfort. You mentioned some transaction data. Where is the other data come from? Using show social data and behavioral data? Where does that come >> with these elements of social data? Some of it is a little bit black box, so you can always access it. And that's the GPR piece there. And rightly so. Actually, in some cases we have a loyalty scheme which allows us to understand our Kashima's better in our bricks and mortar retail, which is really cool that we've got some of that transactional data on a customer level from the store's way know that some people in our sector maybe don't have that, so that so that allows us to complete sort of single customer view, which then we can aggregate in peaks brain, then transaction data on the website in the app and bits off browsing, you know, just within our own network. But you know where customers potentially being and reactive of somethin, a piece of content on journeys within the website, That's that's how we build that view. >> Do you think this is the way that more bricks and more two stores Khun survive? Because so many are closing in high streets up down that you can in other countries, because simply they're not really delivering what the customer wants? >> Yeah, I think so. Rich Now, both feel quite strongly now that wear something to this now a little bit. It's a really As as our relationship for the two businesses has evolved, it's become clearer and clearer that actually we've armed with this. You know this data, our fingertips, we can actually breathe fresh life into the stores, and it's in the eye of proper true omnichannel retailing way. Don't mind where the cost consumer spends the money. We just need to be always on in a connected environment. So that way said before pushing the right product at the right time. And when that when they're in market, we turn up the mark the message a little bit. But then understanding when they're not in market and maybe to back off him and maybe we warn them what with a little bit of a different type of message then and actually we're trapped would want to challenge ourselves to send but less better marketing communications to our consumers. But absolutely that store piece is now, so we tail back. Our store opening strategy is a business to focus more on the digital side of things, but now it's possible that way might open some more stores now, but it will be with a more reform strategy of wet, wet where, why we need to do that? >> Isn't this ironic? The brick and mortar marketplaces getting disrupted by online retailers, obviously Amazons, that big whale in the marketplace and your answer to that is to use Amazon's cloud services and artificial intelligence to pave the way for your future. Yeah, I mean, that's astounding when you think about >> coming. >> Yeah, sort of unified commerce approach, Tio. You know, there's a place in the world for shops. It's like it's not Romance isn't completely dead and going shopping Friends out, you know so on. Actually, yeah, we're using honest in the eight of us, but we'LL hire our friends at Peak. Yeah, it's it's some irony there. I think it's really cool. >> And that decision that you made obviously made made lightly. But you saw the advantages of working with the clouds outweighing the potential trade offs of competition. >> Yeah, I mean, that's not that was never really, really no, I'm certainly not know. I think this is something that is happening, that data, and on harnessing it in a in a safe, responsible, effective way, I believe, is the future of all commerce. So >> that as far as security is concerned because, of course, we have had data breaches. Yeah, customers, credit card details, access. How do you ensure that it's as secure as possible in the way that you you you choose the services. I think >> that come that just comes down to best practice infrastructure on the way we look at it, a peak is there's no bear tools in the world to do that, then the same technologies that Amazon themselves use. It's to do with how you configure those services until ls to make it secure. You know, if you have an unsecure open database on a public network, of course that's not secure. But you could have the same thing in your own infrastructure, and it wouldn't be secure. So I think the way we look at it is exactly the same thing on actually, being in the Amazon plan for us gives us a greater comfort, particularly in terms of co location of data centres, like making sure that our application fails over into different locations. It gives us infrastructure we couldn't afford otherwise, and then on top of that, we get all these extra pieces of technology that can make us even more secure than we could do. Otherwise we'd have to wait, have to employ an army of infrastructure engineers, and we don't have to do that because we run on Yes, >> okay, so we were able to eliminate all that heavy lifting. Same goes. You've got this corpus of data. I'm interested in how long it took to get through. A POC trained the models how much data science was involved. How much of a heavy lift was that? Yeah, well, I think for us >> we better be pretty rapid. Actually, we start working together in January last year, so we're only just sort of year into that. >> And in that faith in that entire >> sofa length of of our relationship, we've gone from high for personalizing digital campaigns to recommendation systems on a website to now optimizing customer acquisition on social media and then finally into the supply chain and optimizing demand. And so on and on. I think there's a lot of reasons why we've been able to do it quickly, but that's fundamental to the technologies that that peak is built. There's two. There's two sides to it. Our technologies cut out a lot of the friction so way didn't run a proof of concept. We were able to just pick it up, run with it and deliver value. And that's to do with I think, the product that peak is built. But then you obviously need a a customer who's who's going on a transformation journey and is hungry to make that make that stick in London on. Then when the two come together, >> I think that it's an interesting point that, though, because while suite for asylum, we always I always say it's that we're not. We're not massive, but we're not tiny, but it's the sort place you Khun turn upon a Monday and say, I've had an idea about something and we're not doing it by Friday. That's That's a nice, agile culture. It can create some drama as well. Possibly. I think it's really straightforward to get straight into it. And I think this is where some of the bigger, um, sleepier high street retailers that Amar fixed in a in a brick Samara world need to not be too afraid to come out and start embracing it. Because I think some of them are trying now. I think it might be a little bit late for some now, but it's it was just it was just wasn't that hard really to get going here >> and you've seen the business results. Can you share any measurements or quantification. We've >> got a really a really good one that we're just talking about at the moment. Actually, Way were able to use segmentation tools within within the peak brain, too to use them on social than Teo. Create lookalike audiences. So Facebook custom tools, right? We'LL help you create audiences that it thinks will be wrapped pirates complex algorithms itself. But we almost took a leap ahead of their algorithms by fire, our algorithms uploading our own segments to create a more sophisticated lookalike audience. We produced a row US results or return on that spend People are not familiar with that of eight thousand four hundred percent which we we would normally be happy as a business. We've sort of seven, eight hundred percent. If you're running that that we've say on AdWords campaign or something like that, that's quite efficient campaign. So it's at zero. We were a bit like it felt like it's a mistake that, you >> know, that is >> not the right Yeah, but not so that's super cool. And that's really that's really opened our eyes to the potential of punishing that the, you know, our sort of piquet I brain to then bring it onto Social on. Do more outward. Advertise on there. >> So moving the goal post meant that your teeth have really high school. Thank you. Thank you very much for telling us all about that time someone feels on Richard for so thank you for joining me and David Auntie here at the age of Lou s summit in London. Merchant to come on the King.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube covering VMworld 2017 brought to you by VMware and it's ecosystem partners. (electronic music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone. Live here, day three coverage, I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. VMworld 2017, we're in the the VM village for wall to wall coverage of VMworld. Our next two guests, Erik Kaulberg who's the senior director of cloud solutions and Jason Chamiak who's the senior systems engineer of Peak 10. Guys, welcome back. Infinidat, you guys are doing great. >> Absolutely, it's been a wonderful year for us. >> We were just talking on camera, got surprised when we kind of went live. Day three, and we were just talking about Infinidat's history and the growth you guys have and just kind of the DNA of the company, how you guys attack the accounts and then kind of profile storage guys you go after and you're disruptive but you're not doing anything super-radical technically, you just come in blocking and tackling with storage solutions for big industrial clients. Give us this update. >> Absolutely, I mean I'd say that the disruption is in two areas. One, it's in how we're approaching the clients and where we're going in the data center. Most typical disruptors would start at the edge and eventually get to the core but Infinidat's modus operandi, from day one, was let's start in the core and then broaden the aperture so we're out there displacing VMAX, we're out there displacing legacy storage arrays that are used for Tier 1 workloads from day one and that strategy has worked out great for us with 260% year over year growth just this past quarter. It's been a wild ride. >> So one of the things that people may or may not know is that this whole scene here at VMworld is all about disruption, oh, the computer industry's thrown upside down. You guys have a very simple approach, come in and just get a better price performance, more bang for the buck if you will, but really deliver some of that core storage. Can you just take a minute to elaborate on that specific point? >> Absolutely, so the story line is really about commodity hardware paired with awesome software that makes all the difference versus the traditional architectures. So what we do with our combination of flash and DRAM and high-capacity hard drives allows us to make sure that the workloads are in the right place at the right time all the time and that means something transformational for our large-scale clients. And the challenge that we see as, versus all the other startups in this space or the smaller companies in this space, that ultimately you have real challenges doing that at scale unless you have the intelligence and the expertise that our three generations of storage leadership have really brought together. >> So Jason, I wonder if we can bring Peak 10 and ViaWest, recent merger, but bring you into the conversation. Maybe talk about, briefly, your company and your role. >> Yeah, sure, so Peak 10 and ViaWest were a hybrid IT company. We specialize in collocation and cloud services and we package that in with managed and professional services. We were looking for a way to consolidate a bunch of the dedicated client arrays that we had out there and we needed a good shared solution that offered high performance that we could throw a bunch of different workloads onto. We evaluated a bunch of flash arrays and other hybrid arrays and Infinidat just happened to outperform pretty much everything that we benchmarked. >> And your role is to look after that infrastructure? >> Yeah, so currently, we have 11 InfiniBox arrays ranging from the 1000 series up to the 6000. We have about four petabytes of physical space and almost 10 petabytes of virtual space. >> So, before we get into the environment, we want to do that, what are the, I mean, as a service provider, obviously, SLAs are super important, you're merging companies so you got a bunch of different infrastructure, you're going to have to deal with that down the road. But like a lot of service providers, you mentioned sort of you wanted to consolidate things, you are probably servicing different workloads with different types of infrastructure but what are the big drivers in your business? You know, cloud obviously, the big wave is here, what are the things that are driving your business that effect IT specifically? >> So one of the things is we want our clients to be able to get to market faster. So, with the InfiniBox, the implementation and configuration of it is extremely simplified over some of the other storage products that we've used in the past. So we're able to get our clients up to speed, they start to use the infrastructure sooner and the performance benefit is amazing. We've actually had testimonials from clients that have put their workload that they had residing on other vendor products, as soon as we put them on, even a shared InfiniBox, not even a dedicated but a shared InfiniBox with other workloads running, they've seen as much as a 500% to 800% improvement in application performance. >> So, paint a picture of your environment, at least the part that you're responsible and have visibility on. What's it look like? I mean, kind of workloads, servers, storage capacities, I mean, whatever you feel comfortable sharing. >> Yeah, sure. So I work on the platform engineering team and we're responsible for the infrastructure and code that make up our client center cloud offering and that is based on VMware and the InfiniBox. So we have a mixed workload. We have clients that have physical servers connecting that run Oracle RAC installations. They'll have Hadoop clusters, large SQL servers, whether that's normal OLTP or analytical workloads in addition to large and small VMware deployments. And we just run that all together on the same unit and there's no hotspots. >> Dave: Are you virtualizing RAC? >> I don't believe so, we may have some. >> Dave: But it's not possible and common that people don't? >> Yeah, I can tell you we do have some virtualized SQL server clusters out there along with physical, you name it, we have it out there. >> Okay, so take us back to pre-Infinidat. What was life like? What was the conversation like with Infinidat? You know, small company comes in knocking at your door, hey, I got an array to sell you. Take us through that story. >> We ended up with, like I mentioned before, we ended up with a lot of dedicated arrays for clients. I think, at one point, we were over 70 dedicated arrays. >> Dave: 70? >> Yeah. So that becomes kind of a management nightmare when it comes to patching and things like that. But even before we get to how we got that many, for each individual client, we try and talk to them, take a look at their workload and then from that, we would have to model what kind of RAID groups we need, how many disks within those RAID groups, so there was a lot of consulting time involved in getting the correct configuration for them. Moving to the InfiniBox, we don't have that problem. We don't have an option to do different types of RAID groups, everything just works within the infrastructure that's there. So we've saved a ton of time having to do all that consulting work beforehand and that also adds to, you know, quicker time to market for our clients. >> So you essentially consolidated a large number of arrays down to an InfiniBox infrastructure, is that right? >> Yeah, so we have, like I said before, we have 11. We have those scattered across multiple locations. >> Okay, and the biggest impact was what, time? People time or? >> Time, there's less time for deployment configuration. We spend less time looking at performance problems so we have more time to focus on the more important things. We do a lot of monitoring and things like that for these arrays now, we do trending and everything. We have time to actually put forth for creating those scripts and those infrastructures. >> So can you talk about performance? I mean, Erik, you could maybe address this too. Infinidat has basically said, look, you don't need an all-flash array, we can deliver a little bit of flash and a lot of spinning disk and work our algorithmic magic and deliver better performance than an all-flash array. Am I summarizing your point of view correctly? >> You got it, exactly. I mean, we would say that the all-flash array movement is great for certain workloads but by and large, for the 80, 90% of common data center environments, it's just a way to make storage expensive again. (laughing) >> Hear, hear, come to the party. And so Jason, from your experience, can you talk about the performance, did you look at other all-flash alternatives or other alternatives to Infinidat? >> Yeah, so we actually started looking at all-flash arrays to start off with because we knew that, with a cloud type infrastructure, we're going to be putting all these varied workloads on there. And we tested several flash arrays, we benchmark those when we get them in, and we actually saw more consistent and better performance across all those workloads from the InfiniBox. And, as you know, with the flash, you pay a lot for a much smaller amount of capacity so that was a problem too. So, from a cost perspective and performance perspective, the InfiniBox pretty much beat out all the competitors. >> I'm sorry if I missed this, how much capacity are you managing? >> So, right now, we have four petabytes of physical, about 10 petabytes of virtual. >> And how many people manage that? >> Probably just a handful of people and it's basically set it and forget it. >> So it's arms and legs? You know, like constantly tuning and... >> Yeah, we don't have to do any of that stuff, it's optimized from the start. >> And that was obviously different prior to the installation of Infinidat or? >> Yeah, before, there was a lot of, you know, like I said, tweaking of disconfigurations and storage pools and cache settings and things like that so there was a lot more hand-holding. >> So, what'd you do with all that time that freed up? I mean, what did you do with that labor resource? Where did you point it? >> We put that into our analytics and monitoring platform on the backend so we create a lot of scripts to help us kind of trend capacity and performance for the InfiniBox arrays. >> Erik, I want to ask you the final question for me. The story I'm hearing at VMworld is that as you do more of these projects, some of the costs kind of add up. Where are you guys seeing kind of the opportunity to come in, stabilize operations from storage to endpoint, free up that time, that's always a great value proposition, reduce steps and save time and money. But where is the action happening where the costs start to get out of control, when people start thinking about true private cloud, hybrid cloud, where's the hotspots that customers should look at saying, if you don't be careful, that's going to blow out of control in terms of costs. >> I personally think it's all about scale at some level. Whether you're thinking about a large-scale public cloud deployment or whether you're thinking about going from five all-flash arrays to 50, let's say, that's when the cumulative costs grow at an exponential rate. And that's the opportunity for companies like Infinidat, successfully bringing these multi-petabyte architectures to fruition while managing all the labor costs and all the implementation costs and operational costs. >> So vSAN's been growing like crazy, for instance, let's take that as an example. Those things can add up in price. How do you guys compare to, say, vSAN? >> So, head-to-head against vSAN at scale, there is no comparison frankly. Whether you're looking at-- >> John: You guys benefit over them or? >> Yeah, definitely us over them. When we look at multi-petabyte scale deployments of which there are relatively few in the market today, you have so much investment. One customer quoted $12 million to do what Infinidat could do for $2 million comparing against the vSAN base. >> I'm kind of skeptical on those numbers, I'd like to see, that's a huge delta so we'll have to kind of follow up on that. >> Erik: You'll have to see it to believe it. >> I mean, that's a $10 million savings. >> Erik: Absolutely. >> You're saying that you guys, it's going to save $10 million off the vSAN number. >> In terms of TCL, when you look at, again, it's not the cost of the hardware or even necessarily the software so much but it's the cost of the implementation, it's the opportunity cost versus all of the innovation, like he was mentioning previously, that really eats into the overall budget-- >> Okay, so let's go to the customers, okay, so that's a good value proposition, puts a stake in the ground, good order of magnitude in terms of solar system of value, right, two versus 12, that's significant. How does that play out in reality when you think about those kinds of numbers? Where's that saving coming from? Just the box deployment, the consolidation, where's that coming from? >> It's pretty much all over. So, part of the cost savings that we have too is once you have a large number of individual arrays, you've got to re-up on maintenance costs and things like that. So we're able to have a much lower number of arrays to service that same workload. We've saved there, we save on man-hours for configuration, for performance troubleshooting and things like that. So across the board, we're saving on time for our employees. >> John: Awesome, Erik, Jason, thanks so much for sharing. Bold statement, huge stake in the ground. Good job you guys are aggressive and hey, lower prices and potential performance is what people want so congratulations Infinidat. Here inside The Cube I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, back with more live coverage, day three of three days of coverage after this short break. Back from VMworld 2017. (electronic music)

>>Hello, everyone. Welcome to the cubes presentation of the 80 startup showcase marketing technology, emerging cloud scale customer experiences. This is season two, episode three of the ongoing series covering the exciting startups from the, a AWS ecosystem to talk about all the top trends and also featuring the key customers. I'm your host, John ER, today we're joined by Louis Fernando, Denise vice president of peak pay social and John Kim, the CEO of Sandberg to learn about the future of what's going on in fostering deeper customer relationships. Gentlemen, thanks for joining us in the cube showcase, >>Excited to be here. >>So John talk about Sendbird real quick set the table for us. What you guys do, you got a customer here to highlight some of the key things you're doing with customers, the value proposition what's Sendbird and what's the showcase about, >>Yeah, I'm really excited to be here. Uh, I'm John founder, C of Sandberg. So Sandberg is the worst leading conversations platform for mobile applications. We can power user to user conversations in mobile applications, as well as the brand to user conversations such as marketing sales and support. So, uh, today we power over quarter billion users on a monthly basis. Uh, we have, you know, through over 300 employees across seven different countries around the world, we work with some of the world's leading, uh, uh, customers such as big pay that we are going to showcase today, along with other, uh, wonderful customers like DoorDash, Reddit, <inaudible> sports and so forth. We have collectively raised over 200 million in funding. Um, so that's kind of where we are today. >>Well, it's always great to have, uh, one great success. Uh, good funding, more important is the customers. And I love showcases where the customers do the talking, because that means you've got some success stories. Louise, talk about, um, are you happy customer? What's it like working with Sandberg? Give us the, give us the scoop. >>So sandbar is being a great partner with us. So pick pay is a Brazilian payment app. We're at a FinTech here with more than 30 million active users using everyday pick pay to pay everything. So the, the, the majority of the payments are between peers, between people. So sandbar is, is helping us to improve a lot this journey to make it more pleasant between every everyone who are using big, big. So we are here, let's talk and it's a >>Pleasure. Yeah, it's awesome. Well, I great to have you guys on great, great relationship. And one of the things we've been talking about on the cube, if the folks watching that know our audience, no we've been banging the, the drum hard on this new world and this new patterns of user expectations and building relationships in this new digital world is not about the old way, the old MarTech way. There are new new use cases, new expectations by the consumers, John, that are, that are bringing up new opportunities, but also expectations. It's not about, I mean, I mean, if someone's using discord, for example, cuz they're gamers, they're done discord. If they want to communicate with, with slack, they, I do slack, SMS, kind of old hat. You got WhatsApp, you've got all these now peer to peer organic connections, multiple channels. This is all the new world. What's your vision on this new relationship building digital communication world. >>Yeah. So I, I think you brought a really good point there. One of the most frequently used applications in the world today are messaging applications across any countries, any region, any culture, if you look at the most frequently used and most longest used applications are usually some form of a, a messaging application. Now the end users or the customers in the world are so used to using, uh, uh, such a, you know, frictionless ver very responsive, modern experience on those messaging applications. What we want to help with the business around the world, the 99.9% of the business around the world don't have those really te knowledge or user experience expertise in messaging. So we want to help our businesses, help our customers be able to harness the power of modern messaging capabilities and then be able to embed it in their own business so that they can retain their users on their platform, engage with them in the con context that their, uh, what their business is about so that they can not only, uh, control or provide a better user experience, but also be able to, uh, understand their users better, uh, understand what they're doing on their businesses, be able to own and, uh, control the data in a more secure and safe way. >>So really it's uh, we're like the Robin hood of the world trying to keep superpower yeah. Back to the businesses. >>Yeah. Deal from the rich idea, the messaging scale. Bring that to everybody else. I love that. Uh, and you got kind of this double int Robin hood kind of new for the new generation finance. This is about taking the advantage of scalable platforms, monopolies, right. And giving the entrepreneur an opportunity to have that same capability feature, rich Louise PPE. You guys used Sendbird together. You have to level up, you gotta compete with those big monopolies to pride, scalable conversations. Okay. How did you engage this? What was your success path look? What was it look like? >>Yeah. When we look to this majority, the bigger chat apps that we have nowadays in the market, we are looking to them and then Brazilians are using for their daily course, but Brazilians are paying every day millions and millions of payments. And these chat apps are not, uh, able to, to, to deal with these payments. So what we are doing here is that, uh, providing a solution where every conversation that are going to happen before, during, or after a payment between the, the people, they would, uh, uh, have a nice platform that could afford all, all of their emotions and discussions that they have to do before or after the payment. So we are putting together the chat platform and we with the payment platform. So that's, that's what we are doing now. >>Okay. So just so I get this right. You're using Sandberg essentially integrated your mobile payment experience. Okay. Which is your app you're Sandberg to bring that scalability into the, into the social app application into the app itself. Is that right? >>Yes. Perfect. Integrated with the payment journey. So everybody who is going to pay, they need to find the one, the, the one they want to pay and then they can chat and conclude the payment through the platform. Yeah. I >>Mean, why not have it right there at point of, uh, transaction. Right. Um, why did you, um, decide to, um, to use conversations in your mobile wallet? Just curious. >>So it's important to say that we were born social. We born in 2012. So when our main main product was peer to peer payments, so everybody were sending money to a friend requesting or charging their family. So a service provider. And once we, we started as a social platform in that period. In that moment, we are just focusing in likes comments and like public interactions and the word become more private. And as soon we under understood this situation, we decided to move from a public feed to a private, to a private interaction. So that's, uh, that then the, the conversational space was the solution for that moving from a public interaction to a private interaction. So between the peers, which are involved in the, the transaction. So that's why we are providing the chat solution integrated with payments. >>That's a great call. John, just give some context here, again, for the folks watching this is now expected, this integrated experience. What's your, how would you talk to folks out there? I mean, first of all, I, I, I see it clearly, you've got an app, you gotta have all this integration and you need it scaling to reach features. Talk about your view on that. Is that the, is that what's happening here? What's, what's the real dynamic here. What's the, the big trend. >>Yeah. One thing that's, uh, super interesting about, uh, uh, like messaging experience in general, if you think about any kind of conversations that's happening, uh, digitally between human beings, more and more conversations, just like what Louis mentioned earlier are happening between in a private setting, even on applications, whether it be slack or other forms of communication, uh, more hap uh, more conversations happen through either one-on-one conversations or in a private small group settings. And because people feel more secure, uh, safe to have, uh, more intimate conversations. So even when you're making transactions is more, you know, there's a higher trust and, uh, people tend to engage, uh, far better on platforms through these kind of private conversations. That's where we kind of come in, whether it be, you want to set a one-on-one conversations or with a group conversation. And then ultimately if you want to take it public in a large group setting, you can also support, you know, thousands, if not, you know, hundreds of thousands of people, uh, engaging a public forum as well. So all of those capabilities can be implemented using something Ember, but again, the world is, uh, right now the businesses and how the user are, are interacting with this with each other is all happening through digital conversations. And we're seeing more and more of that happening, uh, throughout the life cycle of our company. >>Yeah, just as a sidebar, I was just talking to a venture in San Francisco the other day, and we're talking about the future of security and SAS and cloud scale. And, you know, the conversation went to more of, is it SAS? Is it platform as a service Louis? I wanna get your thoughts because, you know, you're seeing more and more needs for customization, low code, no code. You're seeing these trends. You gotta built in security. So, you know, the different, the old SAS model was softwares a service, but now that's everything in the cloud is softwares a service. So, but you need to have that platform kind of vibe for scale customization, maybe some developer integration, cuz apps are becoming the, the touchpoint. So can you walk us through what your vision was when you decided to integrate, chat into your app and how did you see that chat, changing the customer experience for payments and across your user journey? Cause, I mean, it's obvious now looking at it, but it might not have been for some. What was your, what was your vision? And when you had to do that, >>When you looked to Brazilian reality, we can see those in, uh, payment apps. All of them are focused on the transactional moment. And as soon as we started to think, how could be, how could our journey be better, more pleased than the others and make people want to be here and to use and to open our app every day is just about making the interaction with the peers easier, even with a merchant or even with my friend. So the main point that our first step was just to connect all, all the users between themselves to payments. The second step we are providing now is using the chat platform, the send bird platform as a platform for peak pay. So we are going to provide more best information. We're going to provide a better customer experience through the support and everything. So, um, this, this, this interaction or this connection, this partnership with Sandberg are going to unlock a new level of service for our users. And at the same time, a much more pleasant or a more pleasant journey for them while they are using the, the app for a, a simple payment, or if they are going to look for a group objective or maybe a crowdfund in the future or a group to decide, or just to pay something. So we are then locking a new level of interaction between the peers between the people and the users that are, that are involved into this, this payment or this simple transaction, we are making it more conversational. >>Yeah. You're making the application more valuable. We're gonna get to that in the next segment about, you know, the future of apps one and done, you see a lot of sports apps, oh, this big tournament, you know, and then you use it and then you never use it again until next year. You know, you have very time specific apps, but now you guys are smart to kind of build this in, but I gotta ask you a question because a lot of developers and companies out there always have this buy versus build decision. Why did you decide to use Sendbird versus building it in house? It's always kind of like the big trade off. >>Yeah. First of all, it will take a long, long time for us to achieve a major platform as Sandberg. And we are not a chat platform. So we are going to use this social interaction to improve the payment platform that we have. So when we look to the market and we found Sandberg, then we thought, okay, this guys, they are a real platform. And through the conversations, we are seeing that they are roadmap working in synergy with our roadmap. And then we can, we could start to deliver value to our, to our users in a fastest way. Could you imagine it spending 2, 3, 4 years to develop something like sand? And even when we achieve this point, probably our solution will be, would be weaker than, than Sandberg. So it was like no brainer to do that. Yeah. Because we want to improve the payment journey, not to do a chat, only a chat platform. So that's why we are working together to prove it's >>Really, you start to see these plugins, these, you know, look at Stripe for payments, for instance, right. And here in the success they've had, you know, people want to plug in for services. So John, I gotta ask you about, um, about the, the complexity that goes into it. The trust required that they have for you, you have to do this heavy lifting, you gotta provide the confidence that your service is gonna have to scale the compliance. Talk about that. What do you guys do under the covers that make this easy again, great business model, heavy lifting done by you. Seamless integration provide that value. That's why business is good, but there's a lot going on share what's happening under the, under the covers. >>Yeah. Um, before going to like the technical, like intricacy of what we do just to provide a little bit of background context on why we even started this business is we, uh, this is my second startup. My first company was a gaming company. We had built like chat three, four times just for our own game. So we were basically, we felt like we were reinventing the wheel. And then we actually went on a buyer's journey when we were building a social application, uh, uh, for, for, uh, uh, building our own community. We tried to actually be a buyer to see if we can actually find a solution. We want to use turns out that there weren't a lot of like sophisticated, you know, top notch, modern, uh, uh, chat experience that we can build using some other third party solutions. So we had to build all of that ourselves, which became the foundation for se today. >>And what we realized is that for most companies like using a building, the most sophisticated chat is probably not going to be their highest priority in case a pick pay will be, you know, financial transactions and all the other business that can be built on and hosted by platform like pick pay. But, you know, building the most topnotch chat experience would be a priority for a company like let's say WhatsApp or, or telegram, but it will probably not be the priority for, you know, major gaming companies, food delivery companies, finance companies, chat is not the highest priority. That's kind of where we come in, cuz chat is the highest priority for us. And we also have a privilege of working with some of the other, uh, world industry, uh, industry leaders. So by, uh, having this collective experience, working with the industry leaders, we get, uh, uh, technological superiority, being able to, uh, scale to, you know, hundreds of millions of users on a monthly basis. Also the security and the compliances by working with some of the largest commercial banks on some of the largest FinTech applications across the globe. So we have, you know, security, compliances, all the industry, best practices that are built in and all the new topnotch user experience that we are, uh, building with other customers can be also be, uh, utilized by a customer like pick pay. So you get this collective almost like evolutionary benefit. Yeah. By, uh, working with a company like us, >>You get a lot of economies of scale. Could you mind just sharing the URL for the company? So folks watching can go get, do a deep dive. Cause I'm you guys got a lot of, lot of, um, certifications under the covers, a lot of things you guys do. So you mind just sharing URL real quick. >>Yeah. So our company, uh, you can find everything about our company on sandberg.com like carrot pigeon. So, uh, you're sending a bird to send a message. So, uh, yeah. send.com >>All so let's get it to the application, cuz this is really interesting cuz Chad is table stakes now, but things are evolving beyond Chad. You gotta integrate that user experience. It's data. Now you gotta have scale. I mean, you know, people who wanna roll their own chat will find out there's a lot of client side and backend scale issues. Right. You can have a tsunami river like on Twitch, you know, you chat. I mean that, could you got client side issues, data scale. <laugh> right. You got backend. Um, Louis, talk about that dynamic because you know, as you start to scale, you want to rely on that. Talk about this dynamic, how apps now are integrating all these new features. So is it, are apps gonna go like more multifunctional? Do you see apps one and done? What's the, how do you guys see this app world playing out and where does, does the Sendbird fit in? And >>Just, just let me know better John, about the performance or about the, just, just let me >>Oh, slow with performance. Uh, performance is huge, right? You gotta have no one wants to have lag on, on chat. >>Okay. So, um, big pay when we look to the payments have millions, thousands of, of, of payments happen happening every second. So what we are doing now is moving all the payments through a conversation. So it always happened inside the conversation. So since from the first moment, um, every second counts to convert this client. And since from the first moment we never saw in, on Sandberg, any issue about that. And even when we have a question or something that we need to improve the team we're working together. So that that's, those are the points that are making us to work together and to make things going pretty fast. When we look to the users who are going to use chat, they are, their intention is three times better than the users who are not using payments through the chat. They are average. Average spent is three times higher too. >>So they, they are making more connections. They are chatting with their friends. They are friends are here. So the network effect is stronger. So if they're going to pay and they need to wait one more second, two seconds to conclude the payment, probably they will not go into choose paying through the, again, they will use only the wallet, only the code, only the Alliance of the user. So that's is so important for us to perform really, really fast. And then this is what we are finding. And this is what is happening with the integration with Sandberg. >>And what's interesting is, is that the by build chat with conversation, we just had a minute ago kind of plays in here. You get the benefits of Sandberg, but now your transactional fidelity is in the chat <laugh> that you don't build that you rely on them on. So again, that's an interesting dynamic. This is the future of apps, John, this is where it matters. The engagement. This is what you talk about is the new, the new digital experience who would've thought that five, 10 years ago. I mean, chat was just like, Hey, what's going around direct message. Now it's integral part of the app. What's your reading. >>Yeah. I mean, we're seeing that across, uh, uh, to Lewis's point, not just transactions, but like marketing messages are now being sent through chat. So the marketing is no longer just about like giving discount calls, but you can actually reengage with the brand. Uh, also support is becoming more real time through chat. So you're actually building a relationship. The support agents have a better context about the previous conversations and the transactions, the sales conversations, even like building, uh, building alerts, notification, all those things are now, uh, happening through conversations. And that's a better way for customers to engage with the brand cuz you actually, you're actually building a better relationship and also, uh, being able to trust the brand more because there is a channel for you to communicate and, and, and be seen and be heard, uh, by the brand. So we do believe that that's the future of the business and how more and more, uh, brands will be building relationships with their customers. >>Yeah. I love, I love your business model. I think it's really critical. And I think that stickiness is a real, uh, call out point there and the brand, the co-branding and the branding capability, but also really quickly in the last minute we have John and Luis, if you don't mind talking about security, I mean, I can't go a day now without getting an SMS scam, uh, text, uh, you seeing it now on WhatsApp. I mean, I don't even use telegram anymore. I mean, come on. So like, like this is now a problem. The old way has been infiltrated with spam and security issues. Security has to be there. The trust and security real quick, John, we'll start with you and we all Louis go, go ahead. >>No, no. Just, just to, to say how important is that we are not only a chatting platform. We are a payment platform, so we have money now, the transaction. So here in Brazil, we have all this safe, the, the, the layers, the security layers that we have in, on our app. And then we have the security layers provided from Sandburg. So, and when we look to the features, Sandberg are providing to us a lot of features that help users to feel safer like per refined profiles, like announcements, where it's a profile from peak pay, where the users can recognize. So this is peak pay talking with me. It's not a user trying to pass, trying to use big Bay's name to talk with me. So these issues is something that we are really, really, we really care about here because we are not only a chat platform. As I said before, we are a payment platform. We are a FinTech, we're at a digital bank. So we need to take care a lot and we don't have any complaint about it because Sandberg understood it. And then they, they, they are providing since the first moment with the perfect solutions and the user interface to make it simpler for the users to recognize that we speak, pay who is chatting with them, not a user with, with bad, bad intentions. >>Great, great insight, Louis. Thanks for sharing that, John really appreciate you guys coming on. Great showcase. Real final word. John will give you the final word folks watching out there. How do they engage with Sendbird? I want to integrate, I want to use your chat service. What do I do? Do I have to connect in as it managed service is the line of code. What do I do to get Sendbird? >>Yeah. So if you're a developer building a mobile application, simply come visit our website, we have a open documentation and SDK you can download and simply plug into your application. You can have a chat experience up and running matter of minutes, if not ours using our UI kit. So we want to make it as easy as possible for all the builders in the world to be able to harness the superpower of digital conversations. >>All right, great. Congratulations, John, on your success and all the growth and Louis, thanks for coming in, sharing the customer perspective and great insight. Thanks for coming on the showcase. Really appreciate it. Thanks for your time. >>Yeah. Thank you for having me. >>Okay. The a of us startup showcase season two, episode three here I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching.

>>mhm >>mm >>Hello and welcome back to HPD discovered 2021. My name is Dave Volonte and we're going to dig into H P E. Green Lake, we've heard a lot about this, we want to find out how real it is and test a little bit of how how can help solve your business problems. We also want to understand Green Lake relative to the competition. HPV was the first, as you probably know to declare it all in with an as a service model and virtually every major infrastructure player has now followed suit. So we want to hear from HP directly how it's different from the competition, where it's innovating and that means we're gonna poke a little bit of customer examples and how the partner ecosystem is adopting and responding to Green Lake and with me is the right person to do this is keith White, who is the senior Vice President General Manager of the Green Lake cloud services business unit at HP, keith, great to see you, thanks for coming back to the cube. >>Okay, fantastic to see you as always. So thanks so much for having me. >>Yeah, it's our pleasure. So look, we're hearing a lot leading up to discover and at this event about Green Lake you got momentum now, everybody's excited about it. What's driving demand? Where's the excitement coming from? >>No, it's a great question. And you know, the reality is customers are expecting this cloud experience, right? So they they've been using the public cloud, they've been engaging on that front and this cloud experience is really driven, a pretty high amount of customer expectations, make itself served, make it automated, make it easy to consume, only want to pay for what I'm using and then manage it all for me on the back end. But 60 to 70% of apps and data will stay on prem per Gardner and I D. C. And so give me that experience on prem. And so that's why I think Green Lake has gotten so much interest, so much positive growth and momentum is because we're bringing that cloud experience to our customers in their data center, in their Coehlo or at the edge and that's where they want to see it just as much. And so since the world is now hybrid, we have a fantastic solution for folks. >>So you, you were first in this game and so you took some arrows and I'm interested in how Green Lake has evolved, Take us through the journey maybe what were some of the bumps in the road that you had to overcome? Maybe how it compares with the competition. Maybe some of the things that they're going to have to go through as well to get to the point where you are. >>No, it's true. And you know, the great thing is HP as a company is really moving to be much more of a cloud services and software company. And you know, we're seeing this from our competition, as you mentioned, have followed suit. But in essence, you know, you have to move from just sort of providing lease type financing type scenarios for our customers into truly delivering that cloud experience. And that's what's been so exciting over this last year is we've gone from just the basic cloud services, compute storage, networking and VMS to really providing containers as a service, bare metal as a service. Uh, machine learning ops, S. A P V. D I. You know, we've now created a set of workloads and as you heard it discover we're now delivering industry solutions, so electronic medical records for hospitals or high delivery payment transaction processing for, for financial, so that the challenge of moving from just sort of leasing basic capabilities to a true cloud experience that again pay as I go, fully automated self serve, all managed for me has really been a challenge and it's exciting, it's exciting to see customers jump on and really sort of lean in and see the business value that comes from having that level of solution >>keith, am I correct in that pretty much every large tech company has a services arm and they could, they could sort of brute force, some kind of cloud like experience and that's kind of what people have done historically the layer in a financial like leasing financial as you said and and but every situation was unique, it was kind of a snowflake if you will and you guys are probably there a few years ago as well and so I'm interested in sort of how you evolved beyond that. Was it a mindset was a technology, was it sort of cultural? You know, it came from the top as well, but maybe you could describe that a little bit. >>Yeah, the ship comes from our customers because what's happening is customers no longer trying to buy component parts. They're saying it's really about Tesla's like, hey, I want you to deliver this for me. In essence, we're running the data center for them now. We're running their machine learning operations environment for them. Now, you know, we're migrating their mainframe over now. And so what's happening is these sls are really, what matters to customers like that? It's not so much about, hey, what are the speeds and feeds and this and that? And so yes, you can sort of brute force that piece of it. But what you really are having to do is create this deep partnership and relationship with your customer to truly understand their business challenges and then provide them with that capability. Now I think the things that's exciting is yes, the public cloud gives you some some significant benefits for certain workloads and certain capabilities. But what we're hearing from customers is hey, I want to have much more control over my data center. I want to ensure that it has the security required. I want to make sure that I can make the adjustments necessary and so you're doing all that at a lower cost with open platform that I can use a variety of tools and other applications just makes it that much more powerful. So I think that's what we're seeing is we're getting into what our customers really requiring and then you know the most interesting thing is how do you make it work with my entire environment because I am running Azure and I am running A W. S. And I am running google and I'm running some other things. And so how does this cloud really helped me bring all those together to really govern that hybrid estate? And that's where I think Green Lake has really shine. >>So it kind of part of the secret sauce is automation because you've got to be, you still have, you have to be competitive, you know, at least within reason to cloud cost, sometimes it's going to be less expensive, maybe sometimes it can be more expensive. You've got some advantages in certain cases where, you know, there's government governance things and and you know, we don't have to go through all that, but there's the automation but you've got to be profitable at this too. So there's the automation, there's the tooling, there's the openness. So, so that was really a key part of it. Is it not that sort of automating? >>That's right. Automation is key as is really understanding what that customer environment is and optimizing for that piece of it. And so as you heard, we're really excited to announce our Green Lake Lighthouse, which is really providing workload optimized systems that are fully managed for them that provide that capability to run multiple workloads for that customer. But at the same time, to your point, there's a lot of charges that happened on the public cloud side. So, you know, data is the new, you know, gold if you will right, everyone's trying to monetize their data, trying to use it to make decisions and really understand what's happening across their environment and in the cloud. You know, if you put it up in the cloud, you have to pay to get it out. The egress charges can be significant and it's also a bit slower at times because of the latency that happens across that that that connection. And so we are now in a situation where we're seeing a lot of customers that are really trying to analyze their data, leveraging our HPC systems, leveraging our machine learning operation systems in order to really get that data happening, Getting the dancers out much, much faster and a much lower cost than what it would cost them to do that in the cloud. >>So you have some experience at this now. I wonder if we could dig into the customers how customers are using Green Lake. Maybe you can give some examples of success. >>Yeah. Yeah, no. You know it's exciting because you know first off everyone's looking at their digital transformation and that means something different for every single customer, so really understanding what they're trying to do from a transformation standpoint and then saying, okay, well how can we bring a solution to help accelerate that? To help be uh, you know, more connected to your customers to help improve your product delivery. We went to Lyondellbasell for example, one of the largest manufacturers in the world. And you know, they said, hey look, we don't want to run our data center anymore. Most most customers are trying to get out of the data center management business and they're saying, hey, run this for me, uh let me free up resources to go focus on things that really can drive additional value for our customers instead of keeping the lights on patching, blah blah blah. So we have taken their entire environment and moved it to a Coehlo and we're managing it now for them. And so in essence we freed up not just a ton of resources, but they have also been able to drop their carbon footprint, which is also this whole sustainability push is significant as well. And then you look at a customer like care stream, one of the largest medical diagnostic companies in the world, saying hey we gotta be able to allow our doctors to be able to um analyze and diagnose things much much faster through our X ray systems and through our diagnostic machines. And so they have implemented our machine learning operations scenario to dramatically speed up those types of capabilities. So as you go down the list and you start to see these customers really um leveraging technology to meet that digital transformation, saving costs, moving their business forward, creating new business models. It's just, it's really exciting. >>What about partners keith? How how have they responded? I mean, on the one hand, you know, that's great opportunities for them, you know, they're they're transforming their own business model. On the other hand, you know, maybe they were comfortable with the old model, they got a big house, nice, nice boat, you >>know? >>But how are they changing their their their business and how are they leaning in >>similar to what we're seeing? The opportunity for partners is dramatic, right? Because what happens is you have to have a very different relationship with your customer to truly understand their digital transformation. Their business challenges the problems that they're having to address. And so where we're seeing partners really, really sort of the opportunity is where there's the services and that sort of deeper relationship piece of it. So in essence, it's creating much more opportunity because the white spaces dramatic we're seeing, I want to say it's in the 30 to $40 billion worth of market opportunity as we move into an as a service on prem world. So they're seeing that opportunity. They're seeing the ability to add services on top of that and deepen the relationship with our customers. And you know, it's it's from my SVS. We're working closely with S. A. P. For example, to deliver their new rise private cloud customer edition. We're working closely with loosest, for example, who is doing a lot of payment processing type scenarios Nutanix and their database as a service scenario and Splunk because again, we went back to the data piece and these guys are doing so much big data type implementations for risk analytics and and regulatory type scenarios. It's just significant. And so because there's such a push to keep things on prem to have the security to reduce the latency to get rid of the egress charges and everything else. There's just a significant white space for both our partners and then from our distributors and resellers, they're getting to change their business model again, to get much deeper in that relationship with our customers >>to be Green Lake is, I mean it's H. P. E. As a service, it's your platform. And so I wonder if you can think about how you're thinking about uh, share with us, How you think about platform innovation? Um, you've got the pricing model, you know, flex up, flex down. Is there other technology we should know about and other things that are going to move you forward in this battle for the next great hybrid cloud and edge platform? >>Yeah, it's a great push because if you think about it, we are Green Lake is the edge to cloud platform And in essence because we have such a strong edge capability with the arab acquisition we made a few years back. That's really significant momentum with the Silver Peak acquisition to give us SD when you've got that edge connectivity all the way up to our high performance computing. And so you'll see us deliver high performance computing as a service. We're announcing that here at discover um you'll see us announced, you know, machine learning ops I mentioned ASAP, but also a virtual desktops. I think the pandemic has brought a lot more work from home type scenarios and customers really want to have that secure desktop. And so, working with partners like Citrix and Nutanix and and VM ware and Crew were able to provide that again, unique scenario for our customers. And so, um, yeah, the innovation is going to keep coming. You know, I mentioned bare metal as a service because many people are starting to really leverage the metal that's out there. You're seeing us also engaged with folks like intel on our silicon on demand. So this is a really exciting technology because what it allows us to do is turn on cores when we need them. So hey, I need additional capacity. I need some power. Let's turn on some cores. But then I turn off those cores when I'm not using them. You go to a software core based software pricing model, like an oracle or a sequel server. I'm saving dramatic cost now because I don't have to pay for all the cores that are on the system. I'm only paying the licenses for the ones that I use. And so that should bring dramatic cost savings to our customers as well. So we're looking from the silicon all the way up. Uh you know, you hear us talk about project Aurora, which is our security capability. We're looking at the silicon level, but we're also looking at the the container and bare metal and then obviously the workloads in the industry solution. So we're sprinting forward. We're listening to our customers were taking their feedback. We're seeing what they're prioritizing and because we have that tight relationship with them as we help move them to the direction they want to go, it's giving us a ton of fantastic inside information for what really matters. >>Right, Thank you for that. So, I want to ask you about data. A lot of organizations are kind of rethinking their ideal data architecture, their organization. They're they're they're seeing the amount of data that is potentially going to be created at the edge, thinking about ai inference and influencing at the edge and maybe reimagining their data organization in this age of insight. I wonder how Green Lake fits into that. How are you thinking about the new era of data and specifically Green Lakes role? >>Yeah, you mentioned the age of insights and and it really is right. So we've moved sort of as the next phase of digital transformation is basically saying, hey look, I've got all this data. I've got to first get my arms around my data estate because in essence it's in all these different pockets around. And so Green Lake gives you that ability to really get that data estate established. Then I want to take and get the answers in the analytics out of it. And then I want to monetize that data either out to my customer set or out to my industry or out to other scenarios as well. And so as we start to deliver our develops capability, our ai and analytics capabilities through HPC. And it's an open platform. So it allows data scientists to easy boot up easily boot up a cluster with which to do their models and their training and their algorithms. But we can also then use and Estancia at that into the business decisions that our customers are trying to make again without the significant cost that they're seeing on that on the public cloud side and in a very secure way because they have the data exactly where they need it. You'll see us continue to do sort of disaster recovery and data protection and those types of scenarios both with our partners and from H P E. So it's exciting to just understand that now you're going to have the tools and resources so you can actually focus on those business outcomes versus how do I protect the data? Where do I start, how do I get my model set up, etcetera. All that becomes automated and self service. You mentioned earlier >>When you talk to customers Keith one of the big sort of challenges that you're addressing. What's the typical, there was no typical but the but the real nuts that they're trying to crack is it financial? We want to move from Capex to opec's is that hey we want this cloud model but we can't do it in the public cloud for a variety of reasons, edicts, organization leaders or we want to modernize our our state. What are the real sort of sticking points that you're addressing with Green Lake? >>Yeah, I think it's threefold and you sort of touched on those. So one is, it really does start with modernization. Hey, you know, we've got to take costs out of the equation. We've got to reduce our carbon footprint. We've got to automate these things because we have limited resources and how do we maximize the ones that we have? And so I mentioned earlier, getting out of the data center, modernizing our apps, really monetizing our data. So I think that's number one. Number two is what you said as well, which is, hey look, I don't need to have all these capital assets. I don't want to be in charge of managing all all these assets. I just want the capability and so being able to sell them that service that says, hey, we can, we can do X number of desktops for your V. D. I. We can run your S. A. P. Environment or we can make sure that you have the, the analytics structure set up to be able to run your models that becomes super compelling and it frees up a lot of resources in cash on that front as well. And then I think the third thing is what you said, which is the world is hybrid. And so I need to find out what's going to run best in my on prem environment and what's going to run best up in the cloud. And I want to be able to optimize that so that I'm not wasting costs in one place or the other, and I want to be able to govern and govern that holistically. So I have the ability to see what's happening end to end across that so I can manage my business most effectively. So I think those are the three big things that people are really excited about with Green Lake as they enable those things. Um and you know, the reality is that it also means that they have a new partner to help them really think through how can they move forward? So it's not them by themselves. Uh It's really in a one plus one equals three type scenario and then you bring the ecosystem in and now you've got, you know, things working really well. So, >>so big enterprise tech, it's like, it's like the NFL is a sort of a copycat league. And so what, you know what I'm saying? But you guys all got >>big, yeah, >>you've got great resources, hey, this West Coast office exactly is gonna work. We're gonna get a short passing game going. And so that happened. So I feel like, okay, you've raised the bar now on as a service and that's gonna become table stakes. Um you know, it's got a lot of work to get there. I know, and it's a it's a journey, but but when you think about the future uh for H. P. E. Uh what's exciting you the most? >>I think what's exciting me the most is this the reaction that we're seeing with customers because in essence it gets them out of the bits and bytes and speeds and feeds and you know, um >>you >>know, component goo and really gets into business value, business outcomes sls and, and that's what they're looking for because what they're trying to do is break out of, you know that day to day and be able to really focus on the future and where they're going. So I think that's one, I think the second big thing is as you see all these things come together, um you know, we're able to basically provide customers with, I would say a mindset that's like, hey, I can do this holistically, but I can always pick and choose the best that I want and if I ramp up, I have capacity. If I ramp down, I don't have to pay for first scenarios. And so I'm getting the best of both worlds across that piece of it. And then third is I mentioned it earlier. But this whole relationship thing is so important because you know, this isn't about technology anymore. As much as it it is about what's the value that you're going to get out of that technology. And how does that help us move the company and the world forward? Like I love the fact that H. P. E. Was so involved in this pandemic. >>You know, >>with our systems were able to actually uh to run a set of of algorithms and analysis on how to, you know, find a vaccine on how to how to address the things that are going forward. You've seen us now up in space and as we, we broaden our frontier and so as a company you're seeing technology turned into things that are truly helping the world go forward. I think that's exciting as well. >>Yeah. Space. It's like the ultimate edge. >>I >>like you said to me if I take it, it's not not about ports and Mick, nips and gigabytes anymore. It's about the outcome. You mentioned before the S L. A. Um, you know, the thing about, you know, think about virtual, it's great. We have to get in the plane. Its downside. We all know we can't hang out, you know, afterwards, you know, have a drink or you know, chit chat about what's going on in the world, but we can't reach a lot more people. But the other downside of virtual is, you know, you don't have the hallway track. It's not like, hey, did you check out that, that demo on IOT? It's really cool. Where is that? So give us the hallway track. How can folks learn more about discover where would you direct folks? >>You bet. You know, I'm doing a full spot. Obviously let me start with at the top right Antonio Neri our ceo he's going to lay out the whole strategy and then I'll have a spotlight. It's about a 30 minute deep dive on all of these things that that you and I just talked about and then we've got a bunch of breakout sessions were doing some with our partners like Nutanix and others, um, Microsoft as well as we talk about, we didn't really touch on that, but you know, we have a strong partnership with the hyper scholars with Microsoft and with others because in essence customers are expecting an integrated solution that's hybrid. And so, you know, we're showcasing all of that with the with the discover breakouts as well and they're available on demand. We have a huge opportunity with respect to that, so really excited and you know, frankly we're here to help, like I hope people understand this is our opportunity to help you be successful and so please know that our ears are wide open to hear what the challenges are and we're ready to help customers as they needed. >>I'm glad you mentioned the partnership with Microsoft and other hyper skills. I feel like keith, the the Hyper scale is giving us a gift. They've spent last year they spent over $100 billion on Capex build out. That is like, it's like the internet. Thank you. >>Now we're gonna build on >>top of it, we're gonna build an abstraction layer that hides all that underlying complexity. We're gonna connect things and and that's really your job. That's really kind of what you're bringing to the table I think with Green Lake and some of these innovations. So >>I really >>appreciate it. Go ahead please. >>I appreciate the time as well. It's always a pleasure and it's always exciting to get a chance to share with you and and as always, any time you don't want me back, I'm happy to happy to join. Alright, >>would love to do that. So appreciate that. And thank you for spending some time with us. Stay tuned for more great coverage from HPD discovered 21 everything is available on demand as well as the that is the other good thing about virtually go back and watch all this content. This is Dave Volonte for the cube the leader in enterprise tech coverage. Be right back

>>Yeah, >>approximately two years after HP split into two separate companies, antonioni Ranieri was named president and Ceo of Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Under his tenure, the company has streamlined its operations, sharpened his priorities, simplified the product portfolio and strategically aligned its human capital with key growth initiatives. He's made a number of smaller but high leverage acquisitions and return the company to growth while affecting a massive company wide pivot to an as a service model. Welcome back to HPD discovered 2021. This is Dave Volonte for the cube and it's my pleasure to welcome back Antonio Neary to the program. Antonio it's been a while. Great to see you again. >>Hi, Dave. Thanks for having me. >>That's really our pleasure. It was just gonna start off with the big picture. Let's talk about trends. You're a trend spotter. What do you see today? Everybody talks about digital transformation. We had to force marks to digital last year. Now it's really come into focus. But what are the big trends that you're seeing that are affecting your customers transformations? >>Well, Dave, I mean obviously we have been talking about digital transformation for some time uh in our view is no longer a priority is a strategic imperative. And through the last 15 months or so since we have been going through the pandemic, we have seen that accelerated to a level we haven't never seen before. And so what's going on is that we live in a digital economy and through the pandemic now we are more connected than ever. We are much more distributed than ever before and an enormous amount of data is being created and that data has tremendous value. And so what we see in our customer's name, more connectivity, they need a platform from the edge to the cloud to manage all the data and most important they need to move faster and extracting that inside that value from the data and this is where HP is uniquely positioned to deliver against those experiences and way we haven't imagined before. >>Yeah, we're gonna dig into that now, of course you and I have been talking about data and how much data for decades, but I feel like we're gonna look back at 2030 and say, wow, we never, we're not gonna do anything like that. So we're really living in a data centric era as the curves are going exponential, What do you see? How do you see customers handling this? How are they thinking about the opportunities? >>Well, I think, you know, customer realized now that they need to move faster, they need to absolutely be uh much more agile and everything. They do, they need to deploy a cloud experience for all the work clothes and data that they manage and they need to deliver business outcomes to stay ahead of the competition. And so we believe technology now plays even a bigger role and every industry is a technology industry in many ways, every company, right, is a technology company, whether your health care, your manufacturer, your transportation company, you are an education, everybody needs more. It no less. It but at the same time they want the way they want to consumer dave is very different than ever before, right? They want an elastic consumption model and they want to be able to scale up and down based on the needs of their enterprise. But if you recall three years ago, I knew and I had this conversation, I predicted that enterprise of the future will be edge century, cloud enable and data driven. The edge is the next frontier, we said in 2018 and think about it, you know, people now are working remotely and that age now is much more distribute than we imagined before. Cloud is no longer a destination, it is an experience for all your apps and data, but now we are entering what we call the edge of insight, which is all about that data driven approach and this is where all three have to come together in ways that customer did envision before and that's why they need help. >>So I see that, I see the definition of cloud changing, it's no longer a set of remote services, you know, somewhere up there in the cloud, it's expanding on prem cross clouds, you mentioned the edge and so that brings complexity. Every every company is a technology company but they may not be great at technology. So it seems that there are some challenges around there, partly my senses, some of some of what you're trying to do is simplify that for your customers. But what are the challenges that your customers are asking you to solve? >>Well, the first they want a consistent and seamless experience, whatever that application and data lives, so, you know, for them, you know, they want to move away from running it to innovate in our 90 and then obviously they need to move much faster. As I said earlier about this data driven approaches. So they need help because obviously they need to digitize every every aspect of the company, but at the same time they need to do it in a much more cost effective way. So they're asking for subject matter expertise on process engineering. They're asking for the fighting the right mix of hybrid experiences from the edge to cloud and they need to move much faster at scale in deploying technologies like Ai deep learning and machine learning and Hewlett Packard Enterprise uh is extremely well positioned because we have been building an age to club platform where you provide connectivity where you bring computing and storage uh in a softer, define scalable way that you can consume as a service. And so we have great capabilities without HP Point next technology services and advice and run inside. But we have a portfolio with HP Green Lake, our cloud services, the cloud that comes to you that are addressing the most critical data driven warlords. >>Probably about 24 months ago you announced that HP was was going to basically go all in on as a service and get there by by 2022 for all your solutions. I gotta get, I gotta say you've done a good job communicating the Wall Street, I think, I think culturally you've really done a good job of emphasizing that to your, to the workforce. Uh, but but how should we measure the progress that you've made toward that goal? How our customers responding? I I know how the markets responding, you know, three or four year big competitors have now announced. But how should we measure, you know, how you're tracking to that goal? >>Well, I think, you know, the fact that our competitors are entering the other service market is a validation that our vision was right. And that's that's that's good because in the end, you know, it tells us we are on the right track. However, we have to move much faster than than ever before. And that's why we constantly looking for ways to go further and faster. You're right. The court of this is a cultural transformation. Engineering wise, once you state, once you state the North Star, we need to learn our internal processes to think Cloud first and data first versus infrastructure. And we have made great progress. The way we measure ourselves. Dave is very simple is by giving a consistent and transparent report on our pivot in that financial aspect of it, which is what we call the annualized revenue run rate, which we have been disclosed enough for more than a year and a half. And this past quarter grew 30% year over year. So we are on track to deliver a 30-40% Kegel that we committed two years ago And this business going to triple more than uh more than one year from now. So it's gonna be three times as bigger as we enter 2022 and 2023. But in the end, it's all about the experience you deliver and that's why architecturally uh while we made great progress. I know there is way more work to be done, but I'm really excited because what we just announced here this week is just simply remarkable. And you will see more as we become more a cloud operating driven company in the in the next months and years to come. >>I want to ask you kind of a personal question. I mean, COVID-19 is you know, sharpened our sensitivity and empathy to to a lot of different things. Uh and I think uh ceos in your position of a large tech company or any large company, they really can't just give lip service to things like E. S. G. Or or ethical uh digital transformation, which is something that you've talked about in other words, making sure that it's inclusive. Everybody is able to participate in this economy and not get left behind. What does this mean to you personally? >>Well, they remember I'm in a privileged position, right? Leading a company like Hewlett Packard Enterprise that has Hewlett and Packard on the brand is an honor, but it's also a big responsibility. Let's remember what this company stands for and what our purpose is, which is to advance the way people live and work, and in that we have to be able to create a more equitable society and use this technology to solve some of the biggest societal challenge you have been facing The last 18 months has been really hard on a number of dimensions, not just for the business but for their communities. Uh, we saw disruption, we saw hardships on the financial side, we saw acts of violence and hatred. Those are completely unacceptable. But if we work together, we can use these technologies to bring the community together and to make it equitable. And that's one is one of my passion because as we move into this digital economy, I keep saying that connecting people is the first step and if you are not connected, you're not going to participate. Therefore we cannot afford to create a digital economy for only few. And this is why connectivity has to become an essential service, not different than water and electricity. And that's why I have passion and invest my own personal time working with entities like World Economic Forum, educating our government, right, Which is very important because both the public sector and the private sector have to come together. And then from the technology standpoint, we have to architect these things that are commercially accessible and viable to everyone. And so it's uh it's I will say that it's not just my mission. Uh this is top of mind for many of my colleagues ceos that talked all the time and you can see of movement, but at the same time it's good for business because shareholders now want to invest in companies that take care about this, how we make, not just a word more inclusive and equitable, but also how we make a more sustainable and we with our technologies, we can make the world way more sustainable with circular economy, power, efficiency and so forth. So a lot of work to be done dave but I'm encouraged by the progress but we need to do way way more. >>Thank you for that Antonio. I want to ask you about the future and I want to ask you a couple of different angles. So I want to start with the edge. So it seems to me that you're you're building this vision of what I call a layer that abstracts the underlying complexity of the whether it's the public cloud across clouds on prem and and and the edge and it's your job to simplify that. So I as the customer can focus on more strategic initiatives and that's clearly the vision that you guys are setting forth on. My question is is how far do you go on the edge? In other words, it seems to me that Aruba for example, for example, awesome acquisition could go really, really deep into the far edge, maybe other parts of your portfolio, you're kind of more looking at horizontal. How should we think about HP. Es, positioning and participation in that edge opportunity? >>Well, we believe we are becoming one of the merger leaders at the intelligent edge. Right? These edges becoming way more intelligent. We live in a hyper connected world and that will continue to grow at an exponential pace. Right? So today we we may have billions of people and devices pursue. We're entering trillions of things that will be connected to the network. Uh, so you need a platform to be able to do with the scale. So there is a horizontal view of that to create these vertical experiences which are industry driven. Right? So one thing is to deliver a vertical experience in healthcare versus manufacturer transportation. And so we take a really far dave I mean, to the point that we just, you know, put into space 256 miles above the Earth, a supercomputer that tells you we take a really far, but in the end, it's about acting where the data is created and bringing that knowledge and that inside to the people who can make a difference real time as much as possible. And that's why I start by connecting things by bringing a cloud experience to that data, whatever it lives because it's cheaper and it's way more economical and obviously there's aspects of latest in security and compliance. They have to deal with it and then ultimately accelerate that inside into some sort of outcome. And we have many, many use cases were driving today and Aruba is the platform by the way, which we have been using now to extend from the edge all the way to the core into the cloud business. And that's why you HP has unique set of assets to deliver against that opportunity. >>Yes, I want to talk about some of the weapons you have in your arsenal. You know, some people talk about, hey, well we have to win the architectural battle for hybrid cloud. I've heard that statement made, certainly HP is in that battle. It's not a zero sum game, but you're a player there. And so when I, when I look at as a service, great, you're making progress there. But I feel like there's more, there's, there's architecture there, you're making acquisitions, you're building out as moral, which is kind of an interesting data platform. Uh, and so I want to ask you how you see the architecture emerging and where H. P. S sort of value add, I. P. Is your big player and compute you've got actually, you've got chops and memory disaggregate asian, you've done custom silicon over the years. How how should we think about your contribution to the next decade of innovation? >>Well, I think it's gonna come different layers of what we call the stock, right? Obviously, uh, we have been known for an infrastructure company, but the reality is what customers are looking for. Our integrated solutions that are optimized for the given world or application. So they don't have to spend time bringing things together. Right? And and spend weeks sometimes months when they can do it in just in a matter of minutes a day so they can move forward innovative on I. T. And so we were really focused on that connectivity as the first step. And Aruba give us an enormous rich uh through the cloud provisioning of a port or a wifi or a one. As you know, as we move to more cloud native applications. Much of the traffic through the connectivity will go into the internet, not through the traditional fixed networks. And that's what we did acquisitions like Silver Peak because now we can connect all your ages and all your clouds in an autonomous softer. The final way as we go to the other spectrum. Right? We talk about one load optimization and uh for us H. P. S my role is the recipe by which we bring the infrastructure and the software in through that integrated solution that can run autonomously that eventually can consume as a service. And that's why we made the introduction here of HP Green like Lighthouse, which is actually a fully optimised stack. They with the push of a bottom from HP Green Lake cloud platform, we can deploy whatever that that is required and then be able to Federated so we can also address other aspects like disaster recovery and be able to share all the knowledge real time. Swarm learning is another thing that people don't understand. I mean if you think about it. So I'm learning is a distributed Ai learning ecosystem and think about what we did with the D. C. Any in order to find cures for Alzheimer's or dementia. But so I'm learning is going to be the next platform sitting on this age to cloud architecture. So that instead of people worrying about sharing data, what we're doing is actually sharing insights And be able to learn through these millions of data points that they can connect with each other in a secure way. Security is another example, right? So today on an average takes 28 days to find a bridge in your enterprise with project Aurora, which we're going to make available at the end of the year by the end of the year. We actually can address zero day attacks within seconds. And then we're work in other areas like disaster recovery when you get attacked. Think about the ransom ramp somewhere that we have seen in the last few weeks, right? You know, God forbid you have to pay for it. But at the same time, recovery takes days and weeks. Sometimes we are working on technology to do it within 23 seconds. So this is where HP can place across all spectrums of the stack And at the same time of course people expect us to innovate in infrastructure layer. That's why we also partner with companies like Intel were with the push of a bottom. If you need more capacity of the court, you don't have to order anything. She's pushed the bottle, we make more calls available so that that warlord can perform and when you don't need it, shut it off so you don't have to pay for it. And last finalist, you know, I will say for us is all about the consumption availability of our solutions And that's what I said, you know, in 2019 we will make available everything as a service by 2022. You know, we have to say as you know, there is no need to build the church for Easter Sunday when you can rent it for that day. The point here is to grow elastically. And the fact that you don't need to move the data is already a cost savings because cost of aggression data back and forth is enormous and customers also don't want to be locked in. So we have an open approach and we have a true age to cloud architecture and we are focusing on what is most valuable aspect for the customer, which is ultimately the data. >>Thank you for that. One of the other things I wanted to ask you about, again, another weapon in your arsenal is you mentioned supercomputing before. Up in space, we're on the cusp of exa scale and that's the importance of high performance computing. You know, it used to be viewed as just a niche. I've had some great conversations with DR go about this, but that really is the big data platform, if you will. Uh can I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how that fits into the future. Your expertise in HPC, you're obviously a leader in that space. What's the fit with this new vision you're laying out? >>Well, HPC, high performance computing in memory computer are the backbone to be able to manage large data sets at massive scale. Um, and, you know, deployed technologies like deep learning or artificial intelligence for this massive amount of data. If we talked about the explosion of data all around us and uh, you know, and the algorithms and the parameters to be able to extract inside from the day is getting way more complex. And so the ability to co locate data and computed a massive scale is becoming a necessity, whether it's in academia, whether it's in the government obviously to protect your, your most valuable assets or whether it is in the traditional enterprise. But that's why with the acquisition of cray as G. I. And our organic business, we are absolutely the undisputed leader to provide the level of capabilities. And that's why we are going to build five of the top six exa scale systems, which is basically be able to process the billion billion, meaning billion square transactions per second. Can you imagine what you can do with that? Right. What type of problems you can go solve climate problems? Right. Um you know, obviously be able to put someone back into the moon and eventually in mars, you know, the first step to put that supercomputer as an edge computer into the international space station. It's about being able to process data from the images that take from the ice caps of the of the earth to understand climate changes. But eventually, if you want to put somebody in in into the Marks planet, you have to be able to communicate with those astronauts as they go and you know, you can't afford the latency. Right? So this is what the type of problems we are really focused on. But HPC is something that we are absolutely super committed and it's something that honestly, we have the full stack from silicon to software to the system performance that nobody else has in the industry. >>Well, I think it's a real tailwind for you because the industry is moving in that direction and everybody talks about the data and workloads are shifting. We used to be uh I got O. L. T. P. And I got reporting. Now you look at the workloads, there's so much diversity so I'll give you the last word. What what really is the most exciting to you about the future of HPV? >>Well, I'm excited about the innovation will bring it to the market and honestly as the Ceo I care about the culture of the company. For me, the last almost 3.5 years have been truly remarkable. As you said at the beginning, we are transforming every aspect of this company. When I became Ceo I had three priorities for myself. One is our customers and partners. That's why we do these events right to communicate, communicate, communicate. They are our North Star, that's why we exist. Second is our innovation right? We compete and win with the best innovation, solving the most complex problems in a sustainable and equitable way. And third is the culture of the company, which are the core is how we do things in our Team members and employees. You know, I represent my colleagues here, the 60,000 strong team members that had incredible passion for our customers and to make a contribution every single day. And so for me, I'm very optimistic about what we see the recovery of the economy and the possibilities of technology. Uh, but ultimately, you know, we have to work together hand in hand and I believe this company now is absolutely on the right track to not just be relevant, but really to make a difference. And remember That in the end we we have to be a force for good. And let's not forget that while we do all of this, we have some farm with technology. We have to also help some, uh, to address some of the challenges we have seen in the last 18 months and H. P. E. is a whole different company uh, that you knew 3.5 years ago. >>And as you said, knowledge is the right thing to do. It's good. It's good for business Antonio. Neary, thanks so much for coming back to the cube is always a pleasure to see you. >>Thanks for having me. Dave and >>thank you for watching this version of HP discover 2021 on the cube. This is David want to keep it right there for more great coverage. Mm

>>approximately two years after HP split into two separate companies, antonioni Ranieri was named president and Ceo of Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Under his tenure, the company has streamlined its operations, sharpened his priorities, simplified the product portfolio and strategically aligned its human capital with key growth initiatives. He's made a number of smaller but high leverage acquisitions and return the company to growth while affecting a massive company wide pivot to an as a service model. Welcome back to HPD discovered 2021. This is Dave Volonte for the cube and it's my pleasure to welcome back Antonio. Neary to the program Antonio it's been a while. Great to see you again. >>Dave Thanks for having me. >>That's really our pleasure. I was just gonna start off with >>the big picture. >>Let's talk about trends. You're a trend spotter. What do you see today? Everybody talks about digital transformation. We had to force marks to digital last year now it's really come into focus. But what are the big trends that you're seeing that are affecting your customers transformations? >>Okay. I mean obviously we have been talking about digital transformation for some time uh in our view is no longer a priority is a strategic imperative. And through the last 15 months or so since we have been going through the pandemic we have seen that accelerated to a level we haven't never seen before. And so what's going on is that we live in a digital economy and through the pandemic now we are more connected than ever. We are much more distributed than ever before and an enormous amount of data is being created and that data has tremendous value. And so what we see in our customers need more connectivity, they need a platform from the edge to the cloud to manage all the data and most important they need to move faster and extracting that inside that value from the data and this is where HP is uniquely positioned to deliver against those experiences the way we haven't imagined before. >>Yeah, we're gonna dig into that now, of course, you and I have been talking about data and how much data for decades, but I feel like we're gonna look back at, you know, in 2030 and say, Wow, we never, we're not gonna do anything like that. So we're really living in a data centric era as the curves are going exponential. What do you see? How do you see customers handling this? How are they thinking about the opportunities? >>Well, I think, you know, customer realized now that they need to move faster, they need to absolutely be uh much more agile and everything. They do. They need to deploy a cloud experience for all the war clothes and data that they manage and they need to deliver business outcomes to stay ahead of the competition. And so we believe technology now plays even a bigger role and every industry is a technology industry in many ways. Every company right, is a technology company, whether your health care, your manufacturer, your transportation company, you are an education, everybody needs more. It no less I. T. But at the same time they want the way they want to consumer Dave is very different than ever before, right? They want an elastic consumption model and they want to be able to scale up and down based on the needs of their enterprise. But if you recall three years ago I knew and I had this conversation, I predicted that enterprise of the future will be edge centric cloud enable and data driven. The edge is the next frontier. We said in 2018 and think about it, you know, people now are working remotely and that age now is much more distribute than we imagined before. Cloud is no longer a destination, it is an experience for all your apps and data, but now we are entering what we call the edge of insight which is all about that data driven approach and this is where all three have to come together in ways that customer did envision before and that's why they need help. >>So I see that I see the definition of cloud changing, it's no longer a set of remote services, you know, somewhere up there in the cloud, it's expanding on prem cross clouds, you mentioned the Edge and so that brings complexity. Every every company is a technology company but they may not be great at technology. So it seems that there are some challenges around there, partly my senses, some of some of what you're trying to do is simplify that for your customers. But what are the challenges that your customers are asking you to solve? >>Well the first they want a consistent and seamless experience, whatever that application and data lives. And so um you know for them you know they want to move away from running I. T. to innovate in our 90 and then obviously they need to move much faster. As I said earlier about this data driven approaches. So they need help because obviously they need to digitize every every aspect of the company but at the same time they need to do it in a much more cost effective way. So they're asking for subject matter expertise on process engineering. They're asking for the fighting the right mix of hybrid experiences from the edge to cloud and they need to move much faster as scale in deploying technologies like Ai deep learning and machine learning. Hewlett Packard Enterprise uh is extremely well positioned because we have been building an age to cloud platform where you provide connectivity where you bring computing and storage uh in a soft of the fine scalable way that you can consume as a service. And so we have great capabilities without HP Point next technology services and advice and run inside. But we have a portfolio with HP Green Lake, our cloud services, the cloud that comes to you that are addressing the most critical data driven warlords. >>Probably about 24 months ago you announced that HP was, was going to basically go all in on as a service and get there by by 2022 for all your solutions. I gotta get, I gotta say you've done a good job communicating the Wall Street, I think. I think culturally you've really done a good job of emphasizing that to your, to the workforce. Uh, but but how should we measure the progress that you've made toward that goal? How our customers responding? I know how the markets responding, you know, three or four year big competitors have now announced. But how should we measure, you know, how you're tracking to that goal? >>Well, I think, you know, the fact that our competitors are entering the other service market is a validation that our vision was right. And that's that's that's good because in the end, you know, it tells us we are on the right track. However, we have to move much faster than than ever before. And that's why we constantly looking for ways to go further and faster. You're right. The court of this is a cultural transformation. Engineering wise, once you step, once you state the North Star, we need to learn our internal processes to think cloud first and data first versus infrastructure. And we have made great progress. The way we measure ourselves. Dave is very simple is by giving a consistent and transparent report on our pivot in that financial aspect of it, which is what we call the annualized revenue run rate, Which we have been disclosed enough for more than a year and a half. And this past quarter grew 30% year over year. So we are on track to deliver at 30 to 40% cake or that we committed two years ago And this business going to triple more than uh more than one year from now. So it's gonna be three times as bigger as we enter 2022 and 2023. But in the end it's all about the experience you deliver and that's why architecturally uh while we made great progress. I know there is way more work to be done, but I'm really excited because what we just announced here this week is just simply remarkable. And you will see more as we become more a cloud operating driven company in the next month and years to come. >>I want to ask you kind of a personal question. I mean, COVID-19 has sharpened our sensitivity and empathy to a lot of different things. And I think ceos in your position of a large tech company or any large company, they really can't just give lip service to things like E. S. G. Or or ethical uh digital transformation, which is something that you've talked about in other words, making sure that it's inclusive. Everybody is able to participate in this economy and not get left behind. What does this mean to you personally? >>Well, they remember I'm in a privileged position, right? Leading a company like Hewlett Packard Enterprise that has Hewlett and Packard on the brand is an honor, but it's also a big responsibility. Let's remember what this company stands for and what our purpose is, which is to advance the way people live and work. And in that we have to be able to create a more equitable society and use this technology to solve some of the biggest societal challenge you have been facing Last 18 months has been really hard on a number of dimensions, not just for the business but for their communities. Uh, we saw disruption, we saw hardships on the financial side, we saw acts of violence and hatred. Those are completely unacceptable. But if we work together, we can use these technologies to bring the community together and to make it equitable. And that's one is one of my passion because as we move into this digital economy, I keep saying that connecting people is the first step and if you are not connected you're not going to participate. Therefore we cannot afford to create a digital economy for only few. And this is why connectivity has to become an essential service, not different than water and electricity. And that's why I have passion and invest my own personal time working with entities like World Economic Forum, educating our government, which is very important because both the public sector and the private sector have to come together. And then from the technology standpoint, we have to architect these things. They are commercially accessible and viable to everyone. And so it's uh it's I will say that it's not just my mission. Uh this is top of mind for many of my colleagues ceos that talked all the time and you can see of movement, but at the same time it's good for business because shareholders now want to invest in companies that take care about this. How we make, not just a world more inclusive and equitable, but also how we make a more sustainable and we with our technologies we can make the world way more sustainable with circular economy, power, efficiency and so forth. So a lot of work to be done dave but I'm encouraged by the progress but we need to do way way more. >>Thank you for that Antonio I want to ask you about the future and I want to ask you a couple of different angles. So I want to start with the edge. So it seems to me that you're you're building this vision of what I call a layer that abstracts the underlying complexity of the whether it's the public cloud across clouds on prem and and and the edge And it's your job to simplify that. So I as the customer can focus on more strategic initiatives and that's clearly the vision that you guys are setting forth on. My question is is how far do you go on the edge? In other words, it seems to me that Aruba for example, for example, awesome acquisition can go really, really deep into the far edge. Maybe other parts of your portfolio, you're kind of more looking at horizontal. How should we think about HP es positioning and participation in that edge opportunity? >>Well, we believe we are becoming one of the merger leaders at the intelligent edge. Right. These edges becoming more intelligent. We live in a hyper connected world and that will continue to grow at an exponential pace. Right? So today we we might have billions of people and devices pursue. We're entering trillions of things that will be connected to the network. Uh, so you need a platform to be able to do with the scale. So there is a horizontal view of that to create these vertical experiences which are industry driven. Right? So one thing is to deliver a vertical experience in healthcare versus manufacturer transportation. And so we take a really far dave I mean, to the point that we just, you know, put into space 256 miles above the earth, a supercomputer that tells you we take a really far, but in the end it's about acting where the data is created and bringing that knowledge and that inside to the people who can make a difference real time as much as possible. And that's why I start by connecting things by bringing a cloud experience to that data wherever it lives because it's cheaper and it's where more economical and obviously there is aspects of latest in security and compliance that you have to deal with it and then ultimately accelerate that inside into some sort of outcome and we have many, many use cases were driving today and Aruba is the platform by the way, which we have been using now to extend from the edge all the way to the core into the cloud business and that's why you HP has unique set of assets to deliver against that opportunity. >>Yes, I want to talk about some of the weapons you have in your arsenal. You know, some people talk about a week and we have to win the architectural battle for hybrid cloud. I've heard that statement made, certainly HPV is in that balance is not a zero sum game, but but you're a player there. And so when I when I look at as a service, great, you're making progress there. But I feel like there's more, there's there's architecture there, you're making acquisitions, you're building out as moral, which is kind of an interesting data platform. Uh, and so I want to ask you, so how you see the architecture emerging and where H. P. S sort of value add i. P. Is your big player and compute you've got actually you've got chops and memory disaggregate asian, you've done custom silicon over the years. How how should we think about your contribution to the next decade of innovation? >>Well, I think it's gonna come different layers of what we call the stock, right? Obviously, uh, we have been known for an infrastructure company, but the reality is what customers are looking for Our integrated solutions that are optimized for the given workload or application. So they don't have to spend time bringing things together. Right? And and spend weeks sometimes months when they can do it in just in a matter of minutes a day so they can move forward innovative or 90. And so we we are really focused on that connectivity as the first step. And Aruba give us an enormous rich uh through the cloud provisioning of a port or a wifi or a one. As you know, as we move to more cloud native applications. Much of the traffic through the connectivity will go into the internet, not through the traditional fixed networks. And that's what we did acquisitions like Silver Peak because now we can connect all your ages and all your clouds in an autonomous software defined way as you go to the other spectrum, right. We talk about what load optimization and uh for us H. P. S. My role is the recipe by which we bring the infrastructure and the software in through that integrated solution that can run autonomously that eventually can consume as a service. And that's why we made the introduction here of HP Green like lighthouse which is actually I fully optimised stack the with the push of a bottom from HP Green Lake cloud platform we can deploy whatever that that is required and then be able to Federated so we can also address other aspects like disaster recovery and be able to share all the knowledge real time. So I'm learning is another thing that people don't understand. I mean if you think about it. So I'm learning is a distributed Ai learning uh ecosystem and think about what we did with the D. C. Any in order to find cures for Alzheimer's or dementia. But swam learning is gonna be the next platform sitting on this age to cloud architecture so that instead of people worrying about sharing data, what we're doing is actually sharing insights And be able to learn to these millions of data points that they can connect with each other in a secure way. Security is another example, right? So today on an average takes 28 days to find a bridge in your enterprise with project Aurora, which we're gonna make available at the end of the year, by the end of the year. We actually can address zero day attacks within seconds. And then we're work in other areas like disaster recovery when you get attacked. Think about the ransom ramp somewhere that we have seen in the last few weeks, right? You know, God forbid you have to pay for it. But at the same time, recovery takes days and weeks. Sometimes we are working on technology to do it within 23 seconds. So this is where HP can place across all spectrums of the stack. And at the same time, of course, people expect us to innovate in infrastructural layer. That's why we also partnered with companies like Intel, we're with the push of a bottle. If you need more capacity of the court, you don't have to order anything, just push the bottle. We make more calls available so that that will load can perform and when you don't need to shut it off so you don't have to pay for it. And last finalist, you know, I will say for us is all about the consumption availability of our solutions And that's what I said, you know, in 2019 we will make available everything as a service by 2022. You know, we have to say as you know, there is no need to build the church for easter sunday when you can rent it for that day. The point here is to grow elastically and the fact that you don't need to move the data is already a cost savings because cost of aggression data back and forth is enormous and customers also don't want to be locked in. So we have an open approach and we have a through age to cloud architecture and we are focusing on what is most valuable aspect for the customer, which is ultimately the data. >>Thank you for that. One of the other things I wanted to ask you about, and again, another weapon in your arsenal is you mentioned uh supercomputing before up in space where we're on the cusp of exa scale and that's the importance of high performance computing. You know, it used to be viewed as just a niche. I've had some great conversations with Dr go about this, but that really is the big data platform, if you will. Uh can I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how that fits into the future. Your expertise in HPC, you're obviously a leader in that space. What's the fit with this new vision? You're laying out? >>Well, HPC, high performance computer in memory computer are the backbone to be able to manage large data sets at massive scale. Um and, you know, deployed technologies like deep learning or artificial intelligence for this massive amount of data. If we talked about the explosion of data all around us and uh, you know, and the algorithms and the parameters to be able to extract inside from the day is getting way more complex. And so the ability to co locate data and computed a massive scale is becoming a necessity, whether it's in academia, whether it's in the government obviously to protect your, your most valuable assets or whether it is in the traditional enterprise. But that's why with the acquisition of Cray, S. G. I. And our organic business, we are absolutely the undisputed leader to provide the level of capabilities. And that's why we are going to build five of the top six exa scale systems, which is basically be able to process they billion billion, meaning billion square transactions per second. Can you imagine what you can do with that? Right. What type of problems you can go solve climate problems? Right. Um you know, obviously be able to put someone back into the moon and eventually in mars you know, the first step to put that supercomputer as an edge computer into the international space station. It's about being able to process data from the images that take from the ice caps of the, of the earth to understand climate changes. But eventually, if you want to put somebody in in into the Marks planet, you have to be able to communicate with those astronauts as they go and you know, you can't afford the latency. Right? So this is where the type of problems we are really focused on. But HPC is something that we are absolutely uh, super committed. And it's something that honestly we have the full stack from silicon to software to the system performance that nobody else has in the industry. >>Well, I think it's a real tailwind for you because the industry is moving that direction. Everybody talks about the data and workloads are shifting. We used to be uh, I got LTP and I got reporting. Now you look at the workloads, there's so much diversity. So I'll give you the last word. What what really is the most exciting to you about the future of HPV? >>Well, I'm excited about the innovation, will bring it to the market and honestly, as the Ceo, I care about the culture of the company. For me, the last almost 3.5 years have been truly remarkable. As you said at the beginning, we are transforming every aspect of this company. When I became CEO, I had three priorities for myself. One is our customers and partners. That's why we do these events right to communicate, communicate, communicate. Uh they are our North Star, that's why we exist. Uh, second is our innovation right? We compete to win with the best innovation, solving the most complex problems in a sustainable and equitable way. And third is the culture of the company, which are the core is how we do things in our Team members and employees. You know, I represent my colleagues here, the 60,000 strong team members that have incredible passion for our customers and to make a contribution every single day. And so for me, I'm very optimistic about what we see the recovery of the economy and the possibilities of technology. But ultimately, you know, we have to work together hand in hand. Uh and I believe this company now is absolutely on the right track to not just be relevant, but really to make a difference. And remember that in the end we we have to be a force for good. And let's not forget that while we do all of this, we have some farm with technology. We have to also help some uh to address some of the challenges we have seen in the last 18 months. An H. P. E is a whole different company, uh, that you knew 3.5 years ago. >>And as you said, it's, it's knowledge is the right thing to do. It's good. It's good for business Antonio. Neary. Thanks so much for coming back to the cube. Is always a pleasure to see you. >>Thanks for having me Dave >>and thank you for watching this version of HP discover 2021 on the cube. This is David want to keep it right there for more great coverage. >>Mm

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of IBM. Think 20, 21 brought to you by IBM, >>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of IBM, think 20, 21. We're gonna talk about the edge. Like what is the edge, how it's going to evolve. And we're gonna take a look at an autonomous vessel use case, which is quite interesting with me as Rob high. He was an IBM fellow VP and CTO. IBM edge computing. Rob. Welcome. Great to see you again. Thanks Dave. Appreciate that. Yeah. So let's start with the basic question here. You know, people's like, Oh, what is the edge? Like, it's one big thing and it's not, it's it's many things, but how should we think about the edge and why should enterprises, you know, feel like it's necessary to begin to lean in? >>Well, so let's just start with the use cases. Uh, you know, what edge means is the ability to put a camera on a manufacturing floor, you know, perhaps juxtaposed with a robot monitoring the work that the robot is doing using AI visual recognition to detect whether what that robot is doing is producing high quality parts or not. And to be able to do that in real time, to be able to use that analytic thin to, you know, quickly remediate any kind of quality issues, uh, helps lower costs, it helps increase your yield and it helps increase the overall efficiency of your production processes. Or if not that then putting it in something a little bit. It's perhaps a little bit more familiar to us, the idea of an autonomous vehicle, you know, being able to, you know, drive and, and, uh, do driver assistance to drivers safety kinds of features, you know, all of that requires compute and having that compute where people are actually performing these tasks based on the data that they're receiving at the moment that they receive it, they are able to process that real time, be able to give them the feedback that allows them to make better decisions, to be able to do that. >>Not only with lower latency, but actually with better protection of their data, uh, better protection of their personal information or private information. If you're thinking about, you know, the business in which they operate, you know, be able to do that, even when the network fails, be able to do that without necessarily having to transmit tons and tons of data back to the cloud, especially if you end up not actually using that anywhere. That's what as computing really means. >>Yeah. So it sounds like the edge isn't that maybe we shouldn't think of it as a place, but the most logical place to process the data, um, depending on latency and other factors, it's a, that's a good way to look at it. So >>It's just where we do our work. >>Yeah. Well, you do the work, right? That's that makes a lot of sense. Thank you for that. So, you know, we always were talking about the pandemic changing the way we think about things. And I wonder if you can comment on, on the, the edge context as come back from, you know, work from home or remote work, um, you know, think 20, 22, we hope it's going to be face-to-face could edge play a part in that has the pandemic, uh, made you think differently about the opportunities at edge? >>Yeah. And in fact, what we've seen is the pandemic is actually beginning to accelerate digital transformation. If you think about it, you know, any store that wanted to survive the same Deming could only do so by basically introducing a digital presence, you know, the ability to buy online. And even if you're picking up at the store, picking up the curbside, you know, you can't go into a restaurant without getting that QR code that gives you, you know, your digital menu, um, trying to get workers back into both the factories, as well as the warehouses and offices, and to do so safely, be able to ensure that they're wearing the face mask and socially distancing properly. All of these things I think have driven digital transformation. And if you think about the task of, you know, buying online and picking up the store while store is better, have a pretty good idea of where their inventory is. >>Um, they need to know exactly where that product is so they can quickly pick it and get it available to the client before they arrive at the store. Um, and so that's edge computing. We need edge computing to be able to automate the processes of inventory tracking down to individual items and where they're located throughout the store to be able to do the recognition for whether people are or are not being changing their social distancing or wearing their PPE, um, to be able to ensure that our processes are as automated as possible to limit the amount of human interaction that's required in order to perform these processes. All of that I think has accelerated both digital transformation, as well as particularly the use of edge computing, uh, in, in all of our businesses. >>I think about, you know, the forced March to digital in 2020. And if you weren't a digital business, you were out of business, but to your, my big takeaway from what you just said is that digital transformation is just starting and now people really have some time to think about that, that digital strategy. And as we think about doing things more safely, maybe with less human intervention, we love autonomous vehicles. Examples just cause because there's a technically they're challenging, but, but I wonder if you could tell us the story of the Mayflower autonomous ship it's it's upcoming journey, it's going to be cruelest across the Atlantic, unbelievable collecting data, you know, talk about how edge relates to that story. What can you tell us? >>Well, first of all, this is simply talk about the task of navigating a ship from one port on one side of the world to another port across the ocean, across the Atlantic. Um, you know, the ocean is a dangerous place. Uh, yes, it's wide open it's, you know, lots of water, but the reality is it's full of barriers. Of course, you've got land barriers, you've got other ships, you've got Marine life, you've got debris that gets stuck dropped in the ocean. And so the task of navigating is actually quite difficult. And again, to the same point that we've made earlier, you have to have local compute in order to really be able to make those decisions fast enough with enough acuity, with enough clarity, to be able to, um, to be able to safely safely navigate around those kinds of obstacles. So we have to put compute in the ship. >>So the Mayflower ship is as I sort of implied, uh, a, a ship that will be autonomous. There are no human beings involved in the, in operating the ship. It has to be able to on its own, both recognize these obstacles, recognize on the ship, recognize about recognized, um, you know, that cargo container that happened to fallen off, uh, some other ship and floating through the ocean, uh, recognize, you know, uh, rain life, uh, whales and other, other, uh, fish and birds that might be, uh, uh, on, in the way. Um, and, and, and to be able to, um, do all that, you know, entirely without any human intervention. So that compute power is really a prime example of an edge computer. It is compute in the, in the business of navigation, uh, making decisions about, um, the things that it sees and, and making decisions about how best to circumvent those issues. >>Um, now along the way, I should also say part of what the med flagship is going to do is not only exercise the task of navigation and prove that, um, these algorithms can efficiently and effectively, uh, bring that shift from one side of the world to be upside safe, but along the way, it's going to conduct science is going to, um, collect water samples for the, um, chemical makeup of, of the oceans at various points along the way, it's going to be sampling for microplastics or, uh, examining phytoplankton for its health and life. Uh, it's going to be the detecting wave motions and the wave energy that might be indicative of how the world is transforming in the presence of global climate change. Um, these science packages that are going to be formed are also being performed autonomously without human intervention. And that actually opens up a very exciting potential future, which is the idea of these autonomous ships navigating the oceans, collecting data that can then be brought back for the scientists to examine so that they, the scientists are not having to go out and spend weeks and months at a time in perilous conditions. >>These potentially the only conditions, um, collected that data, but rather they can remain safely at land. The ship will collect the data and they can analyze that data from their home labs. So this is actually a really exciting project, but one that I think would demonstrate not only the idea of edge computing, but also the advances in navigation and Marine science. >>Yeah, because I mean, the ship has to navigate itself. Not only is it bringing back data, but there's a great, great example. I met a lot of the work in machine intelligence today is done in the modeling side. This is, this, this is inference going on in near real time. Uh, which we think is where, where the, the, the action is. That's why we love the autonomous, because there's a lot of IBM tech involved in here as well. Is there not, I mean, you've got to have software and you've got your edge devices. You've got, you know, automation capabilities. I mean, it's not right. That this is like serious technical challenge. >>Yeah. Well, we were approached by the primary team on this project and it didn't take us long to realize the utility that some of our technology would have to advancing their project. And so you're right. I mean, we have things like operational decision manager, ODM, which typically is used in the financial services industry, but now it's being applied to the rules of navigation. We've called the Culver over cold rags. Um, we've got, uh, our AI services that do visual recognition because obviously we've got to be able to detect and identify, um, the things that, that the ship is seeing along the way and be able to distinguish what those things are. Uh, we have our IBM edge application manager, which is being used to manage deployment of these kinds of workloads, and frankly, all of the workloads that are hosted in the ship, getting that managed and deployed onto the ship. Uh, and, and of course, you know, all these things have to be integrated. And so that's just a small sampling of the kinds of technologies, but it's a good example of where I think the edge kind of represents the combination of what we have all been working with in this industry, which is how do we bring technologies together, the solver problem as an integrated solution, >>You mentioned financial services. So I wonder if we could, you know, think beyond shipping maybe, uh, what, what are you seeing in other industries? Are there any patterns that are developing where clients are saying, Hey, we need this sort of this capability. What can you tell us? >>So edge computing is it's probably greatest demand right now in manufacturing, uh, in industrial four dash zero, uh, kinds of, uh, environments where, you know, most of the industry, the industrial industry, the markets have grown up largely dependent upon operations, technology, OT, but one of the things that people need in these kinds of environments is the additional benefits that come from AI. And we've talked about, you know, using AI to do visual recognition on manufacturing processes, looking at quality inspection, for example, but you know, there's other aspects of production optimization of worker safety. We talked a little bit about that, um, around, uh, you know, predictive maintenance and asset management, uh, you know, these kinds of additional things that are necessary to really run your factory efficiently, or you're, you know, you're a drilling rig or your energy production systems. All these kinds of industrial processes can benefit from the advances that are occurring in analytics in, um, in, and then of course, having localized compute to do that with, to both do those kinds of decisions in real time, but also to offload the amount of transmission, the data that we have the transmitting back to the cloud. >>So industry four O or manufacturing is one big area retail. We talked a little bit about that, but you think about, you know, point of sale terminals, and the idea of being able to brute two offers at point of sale, to be able to do price checking to help you navigate the store is digital signage. Um, you know, all the user experiences, spillage and spoilage and loss prevention, these are all kinds of use cases that will benefit retail retailers, um, lot of demand. And of course, again, the need to be able to do that locally within the store, we talked to touch a little bit on automotive. The whole automotive industry right now is going through a really fundamental transformation where virtually every automobile now is being imbued with more and more compute capacity and localized processing for doing driver's safety and, and car maintenance and, and, and even short of, you know, full autonomy, which is of course is another topic in its own, right? Uh, lots of experiences that can be brought there as well. So lots of opportunity in distribution, manufacturing, retail banking, uh, uh, virtually every industry that we've looked at has some opportunity for, um, leveraging the benefit that does computing. >>It's hard to get cars right now because the chip short is. But, um, I wonder real quick, if you could talk about 5g, you hear a lot about 5g, there's a ton tons of hype there. Uh, how should we be thinking about 5g? How real is it? What's your take in terms of its impact on the edge? >>So a couple of thoughts here. One is 5g obviously is accelerating, and it has the effect of accelerating edge computing, because one of the benefits of 5g of course, is lower latency and higher bandwidth. And that kind of opens people's minds, the potential to leverage the network connectivity of equipment that otherwise, you know, is hard to connect. If you think about the factory floor for a moment in all the kinds of equipment you have on the factory floor, if you had to hard wire, all that equipment to get access to the compute power on that, that could be a very expensive proposition. You'd like to kind of wirelessly connect that equipment. And that's one of the things that 5g brings to the table, because some of the spectrum that five peak uses has less potential to interfere with that equipment then than you would otherwise. So I think that what we're going to see is 5g will sort of disproportionately benefit I'll call them industrial or commercial unit use cases as compared to 4g and LTE, which were very much centered on consumer use cases. 5g is accelerating as competing in a many ways. 5g actually depends on edge computing. It doesn't mean that we can't do educated beginning without 5g. We can, we can certainly do it for DLP than wireline. Uh, but I think 5g is going to have a very symbiotic effect on, on edge computing, >>Just like wifi was enabler on mobile, but this is a, you know, much, much, much larger potential. Rob. We got to go, thanks so much for coming on and sharing your insights. Love to have you back. Awesome. All right. Appreciate it. Thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for the cubes coverage of IBM. Think 2020, 21, 2021. We'll be right back.

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now here are your hosts, Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. >> Hi everybody, Dave Vellante here with Stu Miniman. We're here to unpack the recent acquisition that IBM announced of Red Hat. $34 billon acquisition financed with cash and debt. And Stu, let me get us started. Why would IBM spend $34 billion on Red Hat? Its largest acquisition to date of a software company had been Cognos at $5 billion. This is a massive move. IBM's Ginni Rometty called this a game changer. And essentially, my take is that they're pivoting. Their public cloud strategy was not living up to expectations. They're pivoting to hybrid cloud. Their hybrid cloud strategy was limited because they didn't really have strong developer mojo, their Bluemix PaaS layer had really failed. And so they really needed to make a big move here, and this is a big move. And so IBM's intent, and Ginni Rometty laid out the strategy, is to become number one in hybrid cloud, the undisputed leader. And so we'll talk about that. But Stu, from Red Hat's perspective, it's a company you're very close to and you've observed for a number of years, Red Hat was on a path touting a $5 billion revenue plan, what happened? Why would they capitulate? >> Yeah Dave, on the face of it, Red Hat says that IBM will help it further its mission. We just listened to Arvin Krishna from IBM talking with Paul Cormier at Red Hat, and they talked about how they were gonna keep the Red Hat brand alive. IBM has a long history with open source. As you mentioned, I've been working with Red Hat, gosh, almost 20 years now, and we all think back to two decades ago, when IBM put a billion dollars into Linux and really pushed on open source. So these are not strangers, they know each other really well. Part of me looks at these from a cynicism standpoint. Somebody on Twitter said that Red Hat is hitting it at the peak of Kubernetes hype. And therefore, they're gonna get maximum valuation for where the stock is. Red Hat has positioned itself rather well in the hybrid cloud world, really the multicloud world, when you go to AWS, when you go to the Microsoft Azure environment, you talk to Google. Open source fits into that environment and Red Hat products specifically tie into those environments. Remember last year, in Boston, there's a video of Andy Jassy talking about a partnership with Red Hat. This year, up on stage, Microsoft with Azure partnering deeply with Red Hat. So Red Hat has done a nice job of moving beyond Linux. But Linux is still at its core. There definitely is concern that the operating system is less important today than it was in the past. It was actually Red Hat's acquisition of CoreOS for about $250 million earlier this year that really put a fine point on it. CoreOS was launched to be just enough Linux to live in this kind of container and Kubernetes world. And Red Hat, of course, like we've seen often, the company that is saying, "We're going to kill you", well you go and you buy them. So Red Hat wasn't looking to kill IBM, but definitely we've seen this trend of softwares eating the world, and open sources eating software. So IBM, hopefully, is a embracing that open source ethos. I have to say, Dave, for myself, a little sad to see the news. Red Hat being the paragon of open source. The one that we always go to for winning in this space. So we hope that they will be able to keep their culture. We've had a chance, many times, to interview Jim Whitehurst, really respected CEO. One that we think should stay involved in IBM deeply for this. But if they can keep and grow the culture, then it's a win for Red Hat. But still sorting through everything, and it feels like a little bit of a capitulation that Red Hat decides to sell off rather than keep its mission of getting to five billion and beyond, and be the leading company in the space. >> Well I think it is a bit of a capitulation. Because look, Red Hat is roughly a $3 billion company, growing at 20% a year, had that vision of five billion Its stock, in June, had hit $175. So while IBM's paying a 60% premium off of its current price, it's really only about 8 or 9% higher than where Red Hat was just a few months ago. And so I think, there's an old saying on Wall Street, the first disappointment is never the last. And so I think that Red Hat was looking at a long slog. They reduced expectations, they guided lower, and they were looking at the 90-day shot clock. And this probably wasn't going to be a good 'nother couple of years for Red Hat. And they're selling at the peak of the market, or roughly the peak of the market. They probably figured, hey, the window is closing, potentially, to do this deal. Maybe not such a bad time to get out, as opposed to trying to slog it out. Your thoughts. >> Yeah, Dave, I think you're absolutely right. When you look at where Red Hat is winning, they've done great in OpenStack but there's not a lot of excitement around OpenStack. Kubernetes was talked about lots in the announcement, in the briefings, and everything like that. I was actually surprised you didn't hear as much about just the core business. You would think you would be hearing about all the companies using Red Hat Enterprise Linux around the world. That ratable model that Red Hat really has a nice base of their environment. It was talking more about the future and where Kubernetes, and cloud-native, and all of that development will go. IBM has done middling okay with developers. They have a strong history in middleware, which is where a lot of the Red Hat development activity has been heading. It was interesting to hear, on the call, it's like, oh well, what about the customers that are using IBM too say, "Oh well, if customers want that, we'll still do it." What about IBM with Cloud Foundry? Well absolutely, if customers wanna still be doing it, they'll do that. So you don't hear the typical, "Oh well, we're going to take Red Hat technology "and push it through all of IBM's channel." This is in the IBM cloud group, and that's really their focus, as it is. I feel like they're almost limiting the potential for growth for Red Hat. >> Well so IBM's gonna pay for this, as I said, it's an all cash deal. IBM's got about 14 and a half billion dollars on the balance sheet. And so they gotta take out some debt. S&P downgraded IBM's rating from an A+ to an A. And so the ratings agency is going to be watching IBM's growth. IBM said this will add 200 basis points of revenue growth over the five year CAGR. But that means we're really not gonna see that for six, seven years. And Ginni Rometty stressed this is not a backend loaded thing. We're gonna find revenue opportunities through cross-selling and go-to-market. But we have a lot of questions on this deal, Stu. And I wanna sorta get into that. So first of all, again, I think it's the right move for IBM. It's a big move for IBM. Rumors were that Cisco might have been interested. I'm not sure if Microsoft was in the mix. So IBM went for it and, as I said, didn't pay a huge premium over where their stock was back in June. Now of course, back in June, the market was kind of inflated. But nonetheless, the strategy now is to go multi-cloud. The number one in the multi-cloud world. What is that multi-cloud leadership? How are we gonna measure multi-cloud? Is IBM, now, the steward of open source for the industry? To your point earlier, you're sad, Stu, I know. >> You bring up a great point. So I think back to three years ago, with the Wikibon we put together, our true private cloud forecast. And when we built that, we said, "Okay, here's the hardware, and software, "and services in private cloud." And we said, "Well let's try to measure hybrid cloud." And we spent like, six months looking at this. And it's like, well what is hybrid cloud? I've got my public cloud pieces, and I've got my private cloud pieces. Well there's some management layers and things that go in between. Do I count things like PaaS? So do you save people like Pivotal and Red Hat's OpenShift? Are those hybrid cloud? Well but they live either here or there. They're not usually necessarily helping with the migration and moving around. I can live in multiple environments. So Linux and containers live in the public, they live in the private, they don't just fly around in the ether. So measuring hybrid cloud, I think is really tough. Does IBM plus Red Hat make them a top leader in this hybrid multi-cloud world? Absolutely, they should be mentioned a lot more. When I go to the cloud shows, the public cloud shows, IBM isn't one of the first peak companies you think about. Red Hat absolutely is in the conversation. It actually should raise the profile of Red Hat because, while Red Hat plays in a lot of the conversations, they're also not the first company that comes to mind when you talk about them. Microsoft, middle of hybrid cloud. Oracle, positioning their applications in this multi-cloud world. Of course you can't talk about cloud, any cloud, without talking about Amazon's position in the marketplace. And SAS is the real place that it plays. So IBM, one of their biggest strengths is that they have applications. Dave, you know the space really well. What does this mean vis-à-vis Oracle? >> Well let's see, so Oracle, I think, is looking at this, saying, alright. I would say IBM is Oracle's number one competitor in the enterprise. You got SAP, and Amazon obviously in cloud, et cetera, et cetera. But let me put it this way, I think Oracle is IBM's number one competitor. Whether Oracle sees it that way or not. But they're clearly similar companies, in terms of their vertical integration. I think Oracle's looking at this, saying, hey. There's no way Oracle was gonna spend $34 billion on Red Hat. And I don't think they were interested in really spending any money on the alternatives. But does this put Canonical and SUSE in play? I think Oracle's gonna look at this and sort of message to its customers, "We're already number one in our world in hybrid cloud." But I wanna come back to the deal. I'm actually optimistic on the deal, from the standpoint of, I think IBM had to make a big move like this. Because it was largely just bumping along. But I'm not buying the narrative from Jim Whitehurst that, "Well we had to do this to scale." Why couldn't they scale with partners? I just don't understand that. They're open. This is largely, to me, a services deal. This is a big boon for IBM Services business. In fact, Jim Whitehurst, and Ginni even said that today on the financial analyst call, Jim said, "Our big constraint was "services scale and the industry expertise there." So what was that constraint? Why couldn't they partner with Accenture, and Ernie Young, and PwC, and the likes of Deloitte, to scale and preserve greater independence? And I think that the reason is, IBM sees an opportunity and they're going hard after it. So how will, or will, IBM change its posture relative to some of those big services plays? >> Yeah, Dave, I think you're absolutely right there. Because Red Hat should've been able to scale there. I wonder if it's just that all of those big service system integrators, they're working really closely with the public cloud providers. And while Red Hat was a piece of it, it wasn't the big piece of it. And therefore, I'm worried on the application migration. I'm worried about the adoption of infrastructure as a service. And Red Hat might be a piece in the puzzle, but it wasn't the driver for that change, and the move, and the modernization activities that were going on. That being said, OpenShift was a great opportunity. It plays in a lot of these environments. It'll be really interesting to see. And a huge opportunity for IBM to take and accelerate that business. From a services standpoint, do you think it'll change their position with regard to the SIs? >> I don't. I think IBM's gonna try to present, preserve Red Hat as an independent company. I would love to see IBM do what EMC did years ago with VMware, and float some portion of the company, and truly have it at least be quasi-independent. With an independent operating structure, and reporting structure from the standpoint of a public company. That would really signal to the partners that IBM's serious about maintaining independence. >> Yeah now, look Dave, IBM has said they will keep the brand, they will keep the products. Of all the companies that would buy Red Hat, I'm not super worried about kinda polluting open source. It was kinda nice that Jim Whitehurst would say, if it's a Red Hat thing, it is 100% open source. And IBM plays in a lot of these environments. A friend of mine on Twitter was like, "Oh hey, IBM's coming back to OpenDaylight or things like that." Because they'd been part of Cloud Foundry, they'd been part of OpenDaylight. There's certain ones that they are part of it and then they step back. So IBM, credibly open source space, if they can let Red Hat people still do their thing. But the concern is that lots of other companies are gonna be calling up project leads, and contributors in the open source community that might've felt that Red Hat was ideal place to live, and now they might go get their paycheck somewhere else. >> There's rumors that Jim Whitehurst eventually will take over IBM. I don't see it, I just don't think Jim Whitehurst wants to run Z mainframes and Services. That doesn't make any sense to me. Ginni's getting to the age where IBM CEOs typically retire, within the next couple of years. And so I think that it's more likely they'll bring in somebody from internally. Whether it's Arvin or, more likely, Jim Kavanaugh 'cause he's got the relationship with Wall Street. Let's talk about winners and losers. It's just, again, a huge strategic move for IBM. Frankly, I see the big winners is IBM and Red Hat. Because as we described before, IBM was struggling with its execution, and Red Hat was just basically, finally hitting a wall after 60-plus quarters of growth. And so the question is, will its customers win? The big concern I have for the customers is, IBM has this nasty habit of raising prices when it does acquisitions. We've seen it a number of times. And so you keep an eye on it, if I were a Red Hat customer, I'd be locking in some attractive pricing, longterm. And I would also be calling Mark Shuttleworth, and get his take, and get that Amdahl coffee cup on my desk, as it were. Other winners and losers, your thoughts on some of the partners, and the ecosystem. >> Yeah, when I look at this and say, compare it to Microsoft buying GitHub. We're all wondering, is this a real game changer for IBM? And if they embrace the direction. It's not like Red Hat culture is going to just take over IBM. In the Q&A with IBM, they said, "Will there be influence? Absolutely. "Is this a marriage of equals? No. "We're buying Red Hat and we will be "communicating and working together on this" But you can see how this can help IBM, as to the direction. Open source and the multi-cloud world is a huge, important piece. Cisco, I think, could've made a move like this. I would've been a little bit more worried about maintaining open source purity, if it was somebody like Cisco. There's other acquisitions, you mentioned Canonical and SUSE are out there. If somebody wanted to do this, the role of the operating system is much less important than it is today. You wouldn't have seen Microsoft up on stage at Red Hat Summit this year if Windows was the driver for Microsoft going forward. The cloud companies out there, to be honest, it really cements their presence out there. I don't think AWS is sitting there saying, "Oh jeez, we need to worry." They're saying, "Well IBM's capitulated." Realizing that, "Sure they have their own cloud, "and their environment, but they're going to be "successful only when they live in, "and around, and amongst our platform of Amazon." And Azure's gonna feel the same way, and same about Google. So there's that dynamic there. >> What about VMware? >> So I think VMware absolutely is a loser here. When I went back to say one of the biggest strengths of IBM is that they have applications. When you talk about Red Hat, they're really working, not only at the infrastructure layer, but working with developers, and working in that environment. The biggest weakness of VMware, is they don't own the applications. I'm paying licenses to VMware. And in a multi-cloud world, why do I need VMware? As opposed to Red Hat and IBM, or Amazon, or Microsoft, have a much more natural affinity for the applications and the data in the future. >> And what about the arms dealers? HPE and Dell, in particular, and of course, Lenovo. Wouldn't they prefer Red Hat being independent? >> Absolutely, they would prefer that they're gonna stay independent. As long as it doesn't seem to customers that IBM is trying to twist everybody's arms, and get you on to Z, or Power, or something like that. And continues to allow partnerships with the HPEs, Dells, Lenovos of the world. I think they'll be okay. So I'd say middling to impact. But absolutely, Red Hat, as an independent, was really the Switzerland of the marketplace. >> Ginni Rometty had sited three growth areas. One was Red Hat scale and go-to-market. I think there's no question about that. IBM could help with Red Hat's go-to-market. The other growth vector was IBM's products and software on the Red Hat stack. I'm less optimistic there, because I think that it's the strength of IBM's products, in and of themselves, that are largely gonna determine that success. And then the third was Services. I think IBM Services is a huge winner here. Having the bat phone into Red Hat is a big win for IBM Services. They can now differentiate. And this is where I think it's gonna be really interesting to see the posture of Accenture and those other big guys. I think IBM can now somewhat differentiate from those guys, saying, "Well wait, "we have exclusive, or not exclusive, "but inside baseball access to Red Hat." So that's gonna be an interesting dynamic to watch. Your final thoughts here. >> Yeah, yeah, Dave, absolutely. On the product integration piece, the question would be, you're gonna have OpenAPIs. This is all gonna work with the entire ecosystem. Couldn't IBM have done more of this without having to pay $34 billion and put things together? Services, absolutely, will be the measurement as to whether this is successful or not. That's probably gonna be the line out of them in financials, that we're gonna have to look at. Because, Dave, going back to, what is hybrid, and how do we measure it? What is success for this whole acquisition down the line? Any final pieces to what we should watch and how we measure that? >> So I think that, first of all, IBM's really good with acquisitions, so keep an eye on that. I'm not so concerned about the debt. IBM's got strong free cash flow. Red Hat throws off a billion dollars a year in free cash flow. This should be an accretive acquisition. In terms of operating profits, it might take a couple of years. But certainly from a standpoint of free cash flow and revenue growth, I think it's gonna help near-term. If it doesn't, that's something that's really important to watch. And then the last thing is culture. You know a lot of people at these companies. I know a lot of people at these companies. Look, the Red Hat culture drinks the Kool-Aid of open. You know this. Do they see IBM as the steward of open, and are they gonna face a brain drain? That's why it's no coincidence that Whitehurst and Rometty were down in North Carolina today. And Arvin and Paul Cormier were in Boston today. This is where a lot of employees are for Red Hat. And they're messaging. And so that's very, very important. IBM's not foolish. So that, to me, Stu, is a huge thing, is the culture. Dave, IBM is no longer the navy suit with the red tie, and everybody buttoned down. People are concerned about like, oh, IBM's gonna give the Red Hat people a dress code. Sure, the typical IBMer is not in a graphic tee and a hoodie. But, Dave, you've seen such a transformation in IBM over the last couple of decades. >> Yeah, definitely. And I think this really does, in my view, cement, now, the legacy of Ginny Rometty, which was kinda hanging on Watson, and Cognitive, and this sort of bespoke set of capabilities, and the SoftLayer acquisition. It, now, all comes together. This is a major pivot by IBM. I think, strategically, it's the right move for IBM. And I think, if in fact, IBM can maintain Red Hat's independence and that posture, and maintain its culture and employee base, I think it does change the game for IBM. So I would say, smart move, good move. Expensive but probably worth it. >> Yeah, where else would they have put their money, Dave? >> Yeah, right. Alright, Stu, thank you very much for unpacking this announcement. And thank you for watching. We'll see you next time. (mellow electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. Covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to SiliconANGLE media's coverage of Dell Technologies World 2018. I'm Stu Miniman here with my cohost Keith Townsend, happy to welcome back to the program Tom Burns, who's the SVP of Networking and Solutions at Dell EMC. Tom, great to see ya. >> Great to see you guys as well. Good to see you again. >> All right, so I feel like one of those CNBC guys. It's like, Tom, I remember back when Force10 was acquired by Dell and all the various pieces that have gone on and converged in infrastructure, but of course with the merger, you've gotten some new pieces to your toy chest. >> Tom: That's correct. >> So maybe give us the update first as to what's under your purview. >> Right, right, so I continue to support and manage the entire global networking business on behalf of Dell EMC, and then recently I picked up what we called our converged infrastructure business or the VxBlock, Vscale business. And I continue also to manage what we call Enterprise Infrastructure, which is basically any time our customers want to extend the life of their infrastructure around memory, storage, optics, and so forth. We support them with Dell EMC certified parts, and then we add to that some third-party componentry around rack power and cooling, software, Cumulus, Big Switch, things like that. Riverbed, Silver Peak, others. And so with that particular portfolio we also cover what we call the Dell EMC Ready Solutions, both for the service provider, but then also for traditional enterprises as well. >> Yeah, well luckily there's no change in any of those environments. >> Tom: No, no. >> Networking's been static for decades. I mean they threw a product line that I mean last I checked was somewhere in the three to four billion dollar range. With the VxBlock under what you're talking there. >> Yeah it's a so, yeah-- >> Maybe you could talk, what does this mean? 'Cause if I give you your networking guy. >> Right. >> Keith and I are networking guys by background, obviously networking's a piece of this, but give us a little bit of how the sausage is made inside to-- >> Tom: Sure. >> Get to this stuff. >> Well I think when you talk about all these solutions, Cloud, Hybrid Cloud, Public Cloud, when you think about software-defined X, the network is still pretty darn important, right? I often say that if the network's not working, it's going to be a pretty cloudy day. It's not going to connect. And so the fabric continues to remain one of the most critical parts of the solution. So the thought around the VxBlock and moving that in towards the networking team is the importance of the fabric and the capability to scale out and scale up with our customers' workloads and applications. So that's probably the reason primarily the reason. And then we can also look at how we can work very closely with our storage division 'cause that's the key IP component coming from Dell EMC on the block side. And see how we can continue to help our customers solve their problems when it comes to this not your do-it-yourself but do-it-for-me environment. >> All right, I know Keith wants to jump in, but one just kind of high-level question for you. I look at networking, we've really been talking about disaggregation of what's going on. It's really about disaggregated systems. And then you've got convergence, and there's other parts of the group that have hyper convergence. How do you square the circle on those two trends and how do those go together? >> Well, I think it's pretty similar on whether you go hyper converge, converge, or do-it-yourself, you build your own block so to speak. There's a set of buyers that want everything to be done for them. They want to buy the entire stack, they want it pre-tested, they want it certified, they want it supported. And then there's a set of customers that want to do it themselves. And that's where we see this opportunity around disaggregation. So we see it primarily in hyperscale and Cloud, but we're seeing it more and more in large enterprise, medium enterprise, particular verticals where customers are in essence looking for some level of agility or capability to interchange their solutions by a particular vendor or solutions that are coming from the same vendor but might be a different IP as an example. And I'm really proud of the fact that Dell EMC really kicked off this disaggregation of the hardware and software and networking. Some 4 1/2 years ago. Now you see some of the, let's say, larger industry players starting to follow suit. And they're starting to disaggregate their software as well. >> Yeah, I would have said just the commonality between those two seemingly opposed trends it's scale. >> Right. >> It's how do customers really help scale these environments? >> Exactly, exactly. It depends a lot around the customer environment and what kind of skill sets do they have. Are they willing to help go through some of that do-it-yourself type of process. Obviously Dell EMC services is there to help them in those particular cases. But we kind of have this buying conundrum of build versus buy. I think my old friend, Chad Sakac, used to say, there's different types of customers that want a VxRail or build-it-themselves, or they want a VxBlock. We see the same thing happen in a networking. There's those customers that want disaggregated hardware and software, and in some cases even disaggregated software. Putting those protocols and features on the switch that they actually use in the data center. Rather than buying a full proprietary stack, well we continue to build the full stack for a select number of customers as well because that's important to that particular sector. >> So again, Tom, two very different ends of the spectrum. I was at ONS a couple of months ago, talked to the team. Dell is a huge sponsor of the Open Source community. And I don't think many people know that. Can you talk about the Open Source relationship or the relationship that Dell Networking has with the Open Source community? >> Absolutely, we first made our venture in Open Source actually with Microsoft in their SONiC work. So they're creating their own network operating software, and we made a joint contribution around the switch abstraction interface, or side. So that was put into the Open Compute Project probably around 3 1/2, maybe four years ago. And that's right after we announced this disaggregation. We then built basically an entire layer of what we call our OS10 base, or what's known in the Linux foundation as OPX. And we contributed that to the OPX or to the Linux foundation, where basically that gives the customer the capability through the software that takes care of all the hardware, creates this switch subtraction interface to gather the intelligence from the ASIC and the silicon, and bringing it to a control plane, which allows APIs to be connected for all your north-bound applications or your general analysis that you want to use, or a disaggregated analysis, what you want to do. So we've been very active in Linux. We've been very active in OCP as well. We're seeing more and more of embracing this opportunity. You've probably seen recently AT&T announced a rather large endeavor to replace tens of thousands of routers with basically white box switches and Open Source software. We really think that this trend is moving, and I'm pretty proud that Dell EMC was a part of getting that all started. >> So that was an awful lot of provider talk. You covered both the provider's base and the enterprise space. Talk to us about where the two kind of meet. You know the provider space, they're creating software, they're embracing OpenStack, they're creating plug-ins for disaggregated networking. And then there's the enterprise. There's opportunity there. Where do you see the enterprise leveraging disaggregation versus the service provider? >> Well, I think it's this move towards software-defined. If you heard in Michael's keynote today, and you'll hear more tomorrow from Jeff Clarke. The whole world is moving to software-defined. It's no longer if, it's when. And I think the opportunity for enterprises that are kind of in that transformation stage, and moving from traditional software-defined, or excuse me, traditional data centers to the software-defined, they could look at disaggregation as an opportunity to give them that agility and capability. In a manner of which they can kind of continue to manage the old world, but move forward into the new world of disaggregation software-defined with the same infrastructure. You know it's not well-known that Dell EMC, we've made our switching now capable of running five different operating softwares. That's dependent upon workloads and use cases, and the customer environment. So, traditional enterprise, they want to look at traditional protocols, traditional features. We give them that capability through our own OS. We can reduce that with OS partners, software coming from some of our OS partners, giving them just the protocols and features that they need for the data center or even out to the edge. And it gives them that flexibility and change. So I think it really comes at this point of when are they going to move towards moving from traditional networking to the next generation of networking. And I'm very happy, I think Dell Technologies is leading the way. >> So I'm wondering if you could expand a little bit about that. When I think about Dell and this show, I mean it is a huge ecosystem. We're sitting right near the Solutions Expo, which will be opening in a little bit, but on the networking side, you've got everything from all the SD-WAN pieces, to all the network operating systems that can sit on top. Maybe, give us kind of the update on the overview, the ecosystem, where Dell wins. >> Yeah, yeah I mean, if you think about 30-something years ago when Michael started the company and Dell started, what was it about. It was really about transforming personal computing, right? It was about taking something that was kind of a traditional proprietary architecture and commoditizing it, making sure it's scalable and supportable. You think of the changes that's occurred now between the mainframe and x86. This is what we think's happening in networking. And at Dell Technologies in the networking area whether it's Dell EMC or to VMware, we're really geared towards this SDX type of market. Virtualization, Layer two, day or three disaggregated switching in the data center. Now SD-WAN with the acquisition of Velocloud by VMware. We're really hoping customers transform at the way networking is being managed, operated, supported to give them much more flexibility and agility in a software-defined market. That being said, we continue to support a multitude of other partners. We have Cumulus, Big Switch, IP infusion, and Pluribus as network operating software alternatives. We have our own, and then we have them as partners. On the SD-WAN area while we lead with Velocloud, we have Silver Peak and we also have Versa Technology, which is getting a lot of upkick in the area. Both in the service provider and in the enterprise space. Huge area of opportunity for enterprises to really lower their cost of connectivity and their branch offices. So, again, we at Dell, we want to have an opinion. We have some leading technologies that we own, but we also partner with some very good, best-of-breed solutions. But being that we're open, and we're disaggregated, and we have an incredible scaling and service department or organization, we have this capability to bring it together for our customers and support them as they go through their IT transformation. >> So, Dell EMC is learning a lot of lessons as you guys start to embrace software-defined. Couple of Dell EMC World's ago, big announcement Chad talked about, ScaleIO, and abstracting, and giving away basically, ScaleIO as a basic solution for free. Then you guys pulled back. And you said, you know what, that's not quite what customers want. They want a packaged solution. So we're talking on one end, total disaggregation and another end, you know what, in a different area of IT, customers seem to want packaged solutions. >> Tom: Yeah. >> Can you talk to the importance of software-defined and packaged solutions? >> Right, it's kind of this theory of appliances, right? Or how is that software going to be packaged? And we give that flexibility in either way. If you think of VxRail or even our vSAN operating or vSAN ready node, it gives that customer the capability to know that we put that software and hardware together, and we tested it, we certified it, most importantly we can support it with kind of one throat to choke, one single call. And so I think the importance for customers are again, am I building it myself or do I want to buy a stack. If I'm somewhere in the middle maybe I'm doing a hybrid or perhaps a Rail type of solution, where it's just compute and storage for the most part. Maybe I'm looking for something different on my networking or connectivity standpoint. But Dell EMC, having the entire portfolio, can help them at any point of the venture or at any part of the solution. So I think that you're absolutely right. The customer buying is varied. You've got those that want everything from a single point, and you got others that are saying I want decision points. I think a lot of the opportunity around the cost savings, mostly from an Opex standpoint are those that are moving towards disaggregated. It doesn't lock 'em in to a single solution. It doesn't get 'em into that long life cycle of when you're going to do changes and upgrades and so forth. This gives them a lot more flexibility and capability. >> Tom, sometimes we have the tendency to get down in the weeds on these products. Especially in the networking space. One of my complaints was, the whole SDN wave, didn't seem to connect necessarily to some of the big businesses' challenges. Heard in the keynote this morning a lot of talk about digital transformation. Bring us up to speed as to how networking plays into that overall story. What you're hearing from customers and if you have any examples we'd love to hear. >> Yeah, no so, I think networking plays a critical part of the IT transformation. I think if you think of the first move in virtualization around compute, then you have the software-defined storage, the networking component was kind of the lagger. It was kind of holding back. And in fact today, I think some analysts say that even when certain software-defined storage implementations occur, interruptions or issues happen in the network. Because the network has then been built and architected for that type of environment. So the companies end up going back and re-looking at how that's done. And companies overall are I think are frustrated with this. They're frustrated with the fact that the network is holding them back from enabling new services, new capabilities, new workloads, moving towards a software-defined environment. And so I think this area again, of disaggregation, of software-defined, of offering choice around software, I think it's doing well, and it's really starting to see an uptick. And the customer experiences as follows. One is, open networking where it's based upon standard commodity-based hardware. It's simply less expensive than proprietary hardware. So they're going to have a little bit of savings from the CapEx standpoint. But because they moved towards this disaggregated model where perhaps they're using one of our third-party software partners that happens to be based in Linux, or even our own OS10 is now based in Linux. Look at that, the tools around configuration and automation are the same as compute. And the same as storage. And so therefore I'm saving on this configuration and automation and so forth. So we have examples such as Verizon that literally not only saves about 30% cost savings on their CapEx, they're saving anywhere between 40 and 50% on their Opex. Why? They can roll out applications much faster. They can make changes to their network much faster. I mean that's the benefit of virtualization and NSX as well, right? Instead of having this decisions of sending a network engineer to a closet to do CLI, down in the dirt as you would say, and reconfigure the switch, a lot of that now has been attracted to a software lever, and getting the company much more capability to make the changes across the fabric, or to segregate it using NSX micro segmentation to make the changes to those users or to that particular environment that needs those changes. So, just the incredible amount of flexibility. I think SDN let's say six, seven years ago, everyone thought it was going to be CapEx. You know, cheaper hardware, cheaper ASICs, et cetera. It's all about Opex. It's around flexibility, agility, common tool sets, better configuration, faster automation. >> So we all have this nirvana idea that we can take our traditional stacks, whether it's pre-packaged CI configurations that's pre-engineered, HCI, SDN, disaggregated networking. Add to that a software layer this magical automation. Can you unpack that for us a little bit? What are you seeing practically whether it's in the server provider perspective or on the enterprise. What are those crucial relationships that Dell EMC is forming with the software industry to bring forth that automation? >> Well obviously we have a very strong relationship with VMware. >> Keith: Right. >> And so you have vRealize and vROps and so forth, and in fact in the new VxBlock 1000, you're going to see a lot of us gearings, a lot of our development towards the vRealize suite, so that helps those customers that are in a VMware environment. We also have a very strong relationship with Red Hat and OpenStack, where we've seen very successful implementations in the service provider space. Those that want to go a little bit more, a little bit more disaggregated, a little bit more open, even it from the storage participation like SAP and so forth. But then obviously we're doing a lot of work with Ansible, Chef, and Puppet, for those that are looking for more of a common open source set of tools across server, compute, networking storage and so forth. So I think the real benefit is kind of looking at it at that 25,000-foot view on how we want to automate. Do you want to go towards containers, do you want to go traditional? What are the tool sets that you've been using in your compute environment, and can those be brought down to the entire stack? >> All right, well Tom Burns, really appreciate catching up with you. I know Keith will be spending a little time at Interop this week too. I know, I'm excited that we have a lot more networking here at this end of the strip also this week. >> Appreciate it. Listen to Pat's talk this afternoon. I think we're going to be hearing even more about Dell Technology's networking. >> All right. Tom Burns, SVP of Networking and Solutions at Dell EMC. I'm Stu Miniman and this is Keith Townsend. Thanks for watching The Cube. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Congratulations, Reggie Jackson. >> Certainly in the moment, is about what are youth is and who we are today as a country, as a universe. You are CUBE alumni. Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Oracle OpenWorld 2016. Brought to you by Oracle now here's your host John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Hey welcome back everyone we're live here in San Francisco at Oracle OpenWorld. This is SiliconANGLE Media's flagship program, theCUBE, where we go out to the events and extract the signal from noise. I'm John Furrier, co-CEO of SiliconANGLE Media, with Peter Burris, general manager at Wikibon research, and Head of Research at SiliconANGLE Media. Our next guest is CUBE alumni, Chuck Hollis, Senior Vice-President of Infrastructure at cloud and storage. Welcome back to theCUBE. >> It's always a pleasure. I always have a good time when I'm here. >> So the best part of having you on is you've seen the movie before, you've lived it on other teams, you're now at Oracle, what, two and a half years? >> Chuck: One year at Oracle. >> Almost two years, so -- >> Chuck: I'm not dead yet. >> I don't think you -- >> What's that mean? Let's explore that. When will you be dead? >> You're looking good right now. You actually look like you been working out. >> A little tan, like you, like you, you know? >> So is it the country club here at Oracle? >> No, no, no. >> Chairs spinning at five o' clock? >> I'm up early and to bed late and weekends included, right? >> Well, certainly, Dave Donatelli's here, and a team of people really ramping up, essentially engineered systems, AKA hardware engineered in with the software. >> Both, in the cloud, and on premises, right? >> In the cloud and on premises. Clear, end-to-end oracle solution, which will, one, be optimized to run on Oracle, or -- >> Among other things, yes. >> So give us the update; what's the new announcements today? >> So Larry from onstage was very proud to talk about our new gen-two infrastructures of service, and our belief is there's a gap in the market. We have people doing public cloud, right, which, basically, is Startover, Azure, AWS. No chance of an on-prem solution. We have the private cloud guys, basically a Vmware shop, infrastructure only, no pass no nothing, and certainly not a lot of choices if you want to go to public cloud. We think that Oracle's doing a good job of creating that third option. Here's a combined, integrated strategy, on-premises and in the cloud, same technology, same set of capabilities aimed at enterprise applications that basically works the way enterprise IT needs it to work. So this next-gen two infrastructures of service is kind of the first peak of this massive investment we'd be making making entirely new infrastructure cloud that meets the needs of enterprise IT. >> So is this a reboot, or is this an extension of where you guys were? Some were, analysts were saying, not us, but -- >> Chuck: Ah, you'd never say that. >> Well, they said, I was using their words. Holger at Constellation said it's a reboot of their other infrastructure service, so he didn't want to say it failed, implied a transition -- >> Well, I wouldn't say it failed, it's more like a leapfrog. >> John: Explain. >> Oracle got into this business software as service, rather than standalone Sass packages, they worked on integrating everything tightly together, unifying the company. That was followed by platform as a service, aimed at 9,000,000 Java developers around the planet and everything they do. Infrastructure as a service was just made separately about a year ago. We got into the market, we learned a lot of things, but we also realized that we could actually start over again. We look at the engineering team, it's up to about 400 people who are building this next-gen IS, are all ex-Amazon, all ex-Azure. This is not their first infrastructure cloud, and because they were handed a blank piece of paper and said, "you can start over again," it actually is pretty exciting what they've done architecturally. >> So there's got to be something Oracle's doing that's distinct, so just for any number of reasons. Oracle has a lot of existing customers that're running heavy-duty enterprise applications. >> Chuck: Yeah, the tough stuff. >> The tough stuff, so talk to us about how the tough stuff is going to end up in the cloud. >> I think you bring up a good point. One way of looking at it now is that the easy stuff is gone. Desktop has gone to Office 365, and those kids from college are playing with AWS, and maybe I've got some generic workload consolidation sitting in the back room with a private cloud. What about those hairy applications, the demanding databases, in-memory analytics, the big to-do workloads? Where are they going to go? Well, what you see with out infrastructure-to-service is that we're actually providing two capabilities. We can run all of those through our cloud using those exact same technologies that we're running on-premises. You're probably familiar with products like Exadata. Well, you can buy an Exadata. You can use the Exadata in the Oracle public cloud, or you can consume it as a cloud machine, something we call "cloud-to-customer" on premises. And I think that's an important differentiation. A lot of this market is focused on consolidating generic workloads. That's more moderately interesting to us. To your point, what we're really interested are the big, hairy ones. As I joke, these are the ones that have vice-presidents attached to them, right? Yeah, the ones that people really care about. >> Peter: And typically eight figures. >> Depends on the size of the company. Like, Mark was interviewing a lot of people, a lot of customers this morning, and some of them were not large shops. >> But even those partners that're serving those customers often have eight figures associated with their investment in Oracle as well, so it cascades out through the entire industry. But it's also, I want to ask you this, Chuck. It's also not always the applications that have to be brought forward, but we were talking about ageism and it's always better if it's new, but there's a lot of skills in the industry. It's not a question of we want to bring them along. That's still where a lot of the value's being created, so talk about how this third way is going to make not only existing customers and existing apps, but also existing skill sets more rapidly develop inside and experience the expertise with these new technologies. >> I think that's a very good important because any IT organization's only as good as their skill set portfolio. I think anybody who's worked with IT understands that. By the same token, look at the portfolio. Walk into an average IT shop. Here's the stuff that was built decades ago. Here's the stuff that's kind of modern client-server three-tier. Here's the new stuffs that were using containers and microservices. If you're going to be an enterprise cloud provider to that IT shop, you got to support the old stuff, you got to support the kind of current stuff, and you definitely got to give a little pathway to the new stuff, and give me the ability to evolve that portfolio, and peoples' skills forward at the same time. This is what my big arguments that most public cloud providers is public cloud is easy. Just blow everything up and start over in our cloud. Well, as attractive as that might sound, that may not just be a financial reality for the majority of IT organizations. >> Yeah, operationally, too, they can't run their business. So so much for the container stuff. Ravello was the new container cloud server. >> Two things. So we have Ravello and we have a new container cloud service. So we'll put that on Ravello. So we all know hypervisors virtualize hardware. Ravello virtualizes hypervisors. What it does is it comes in to a VC or KVM environment, lifts it up, strips off the hypervisor, encapsulates the network to storage and the compute, then you can actually choose your cloud. You want to run it on AWS, you want to run it on Google, or do you want to run on the Oracle cloud? And it'll show you the prices for each, and you can shop there, so the reason we think that's interesting is nobody really wants to get locked into anybody's cloud, and if we can give people workload portability through VMs, that's great. Well, that's for stuff that we wrapped with virtualization. What about the new containerization? Well, trick with containers is container management, and today, if you want to do container management, you got to graft some open-source stuff and basically build your own. What Oracle has done is created and end-to-end container management service that says, alright, if you really would like to build your own, have at it, but in the meantime, here's something that kind of works. We can do that on-premises, on our cloud machines. We can do this in public Oracle clouds. We have this fast-burning desire to do this on other people's clouds just as soon as we get our own stuff sorted out. But it's the same thing. If I'm developing an application, Oracle has to go compete for that infrastructure business. It can't just say, well, you're an Oracle customer, you have go on all our stuff. And it would be the rare IT leader that would accept lock-in at the cloud level. >> There's no reason to do it today. There's absolutely no reason to do that. >> They may choose to go with us. >> But even if they choose to go with you, they want to do so in a way that doesn't force the lock-in. >> We all flew here, did you pay attention to the flight attendant when she showed where the exit rows are and everything? You may not plan on using that, but it's nice to know they're there. >> And it's nice for you to know where they are, too. Because you guys have learned that to stay at the vanguard of the industry, you have to be always aware of who's about to eat your lunch. >> And I think the Oracle database did a good job back in the day, and still to this day of being affordable. You can invest in the database, it can go wherever you want. And we're trying to do the same thing for that application ecosystem. And we're trying to involve three categories. The old, legacy stuff, the somewhat contemporary stuff, and the emerging containers, microservices-based stuff. >> So talk about your partners, because I know that something that we've been talking about on theCUBE a fair amount is -- >> Partners, we got lots of them. Infrastructure partners in particular? >> John: Well, Centure has an announcement. >> There's a disco party going on behind us here. >> There sure is, unfortunately theCUBE sign's in the way. Otherwise I could participate in it. >> I can see. >> But come back to this notion of a lot of the value that has always been created in the Oracle ecosystems has been created in partners. I have this theory, we have this theory at Wikibon that ultimately there will be more examples of college suppliers being created by your customers and your partners than by individual like AWS and Oracle and Microsoft. >> So Oracle's always had a very rich partner ecosystem. Applications, development, to infrastructure. And the exciting thing that I'm seeing with out partners is like they're seeing opportunity. So let's say that you have this cool vertical application. Five years ago your were selling on-prem hardware with all that entailed. Now you can run the in the Oracle cloud and simply sell a subscription service to your customers. You've evolved your business model forward. Folks that we partner with do application development. They have a platform now for application integration where they have vastly more capablites as opposed to the old school, got to go build it, got to go assemble it, etc, etc. The people who're feeling a little threatened by all of this not surprisingly, are the box-shifters, right? They're guys who just move hardware from A to B. And we're working with them, it's like there's still opportunity there. You just have to look up the stack a little bit. Their skills are still valid, they're just not assembling hardware. >> And you got a Centure announced that the business groups taking the infrastructure-to-service products out, that press release went out today. We covered that. >> I didn't know if that went out yet, but thanks for confirming. >> Oh, maybe that was embargoed, oops. >> Roll back, roll back, roll back. >> Put that back in the model, live TV. >> Centure, all these guys, they want to provide more value to their clients, and 10 years ago, that was stitching together hardware. Now it's about teaching them how to intelligently consume cloud. And I think what these partners like about the Oracle offering is designed to work the way enterprise IT works. It's not this, hey, here's our model, take it or leave it. >> One more thought on this, that there's a difference between the traditional, as you said, three-tier infrastructure, client-server innovation center, and some of the new analytic stuff that's on the horizon. Talk about how you guys are specifically focusing on some of the new analytics applications that are on the horizon coming into the cloud and how you intend to make the two worlds work better together. >> So I think that's great. Old-school analytics we used to call data warehousing, and business intelligence. That hasn't gone away. If you look back five years, it was all about big data, and mining values. Now we're moving to a phase of real-time decision making. Welcome to in-memory analytics things as fast as they can be. And once you figure out how to monetize data, it's addictive, you just want to do it faster and faster and faster and faster. Also, we're talking about relatively exotic infrastructure, right? Multi-terabyte memory spaces, shared Numa architectures. Pretty hard to go down to Best Buy and find the hardware for that and go build that, so as people start pushing the envelope, they're looking more for on-prem engineered solutions or more often, what can you do for me in the cloud. Interestingly enough, we talked about this gen-2 infrastructure service. One of the things it's very good at is having enormous memory spaces and very fast to compute, this kind of bare-metal compute we're seeing in real-time analytics. I think the other factor on this is internet of things, forgive me for playing buzzword bingo, the easy part is gathering the data. The real-time decisioning and actioning on it, that's heavy computing. >> Peter: And delivery with control. >> Yeah, delivering with control. You've got 10 million gas meters. Okay, how do I reason over that in real time, right? That kind of thing. >> So I had to ask you, we've been hearing about this spark-based exadata, what it's all about. What's that all about, is it a new product? >> Another member in the family. So you guys probably know the headlines on the spark chip has a couple of unique talents. It's got 32 encryption processors, so it can encrypt in real time, no delay. Has this ability to take queries and run them in silicon. It also has the ability to compress and decompress memory for in-memory analytics. So the exadata is basically a purpose-built, engineered system for database, so by taking our processor technology and putting it in this purpose-built machine, it gets a whole bunch of new talents for no more money because again, that's part of our differentiation. Things I've learned since I've been a year at Oracle is it's nice to have your own chips. Sometimes they come in very very handy as you build differentiated solutions, so I think exadata customers will have a new option, and I'm sure in the fullness of time it'll be available in our public cloud, it'll be available as a cloud -- >> But this brings up a good point, though. Intel was on stage yesterday, gave the same old corporate pitch, didn't really learn anything new there. >> Chuck: They had nice slides, though. >> That Ian Bryant's awesome. But the thing is, and Larry said that I find compelling is now that I can get your thoughts on it because it kind of comes back to the hyperconversion trend, which is he said, "we are going to provide it faster and cheaper." So he's clearly looking at infrastructures, bring this thing down, cost down to zero if possible, while performance he wants to bring up to a whole other level. How are you guys going to do that, what's the strategy? >> I think Larry and Oracle have the ability to invest like crazy. Don't forget, we build our own hardware. We build our own servers. We build our own data center fabrics. We don't have to buy this stuff from anybody. We build it, so Larry and the team, a couple years ago set this team up with a mission to go compete. Now if you've looked at Amazon, AWS margins, you know there's a lot of fat there. They're also running on really old stuff, the basic architecture was designed 10, 11 years ago. I don't want to throw aspersions around, but you could call it legacy cloud, right? >> John: What do you call it? >> Legacy cloud, anything 10 years or older, it's got to be legacy. So there's a clear opportunity to go build something new. That being said, this is a big boy's game. This is not let's round up a couple million dollars of VC and build a new cloud. So to look at the aggregate spend Oracle's putting behind this infrastructure -- >> Well, you just said the big boys are public, like Rackspace, they couldn't make it, right? So you're starting to see, they were a little, kind of a big boy, I mean... >> They're reasonable out there. But look at it this way, Oracle's got a national software franchise. Much like Microsoft does bring people on. We build our own hardware. We build our own data centers. We actually can become a vertical supplier in this and the argument is efficiency is result. >> So we're going to see Dave Donatelli on Wednesday after his keynote. I know he's prepping up for that. How's it going with Dave, what's going on with Dave? >> Dave's having a good time. I mean, we all came to Oracle on the same premise, is that the industry was rotating, and I think we've seen that in some of the analyst numbers, less and less on-premise spend, more and more spent in the cloud. >> A lot of new hires coming in from an industry that we know on Oracle, pre-existing players. >> And if you asked 'em five years ago if they ever would end up working for Oracle, they might have not said so. >> John: You're being polite. They'd say, "no friggin' way." >> Go through your mind and think what are the traditional on-prem IT vendors that transition their customers to the cloud? It would be a very short list. >> So you buy the whole cloud-broker Dell technologies? >> They don't have a cloud. I think customers want to consume cloud. >> Bing cloud air network now has 4,000 cloud providers. >> All slightly different, all slightly different. >> All working together with hypervisor. >> It's like a big portfolio management company. >> Is that a chess game, or is that just hail Mary? >> Vshpere was designed for the data centers. EMC bombed 10 years ago. Our tech's designed for the data center, and it wasn't designed for a world where people don't want data centers anymore. So I think VM ware's very challenged because their technology and business model is standing up viable public cloud options. The last big one was, oh no, we can't do it. We'll go to IBM. What's your cloud strategy, VM ware? Call IBM? That's kind of a rough deal on a sales call. >> Well, if you put it in the context of a V-cloud air network, you could argue that they're giving up the cloud. Basically, VM world, they said, "we're done with the cloud." they yielded -- >> Peter: I don't think they said that, John. >> They yielded that they weren't going to have their own cloud. >> Absolutely they yielded. >> They yielded on not having their own cloud. >> Okay, they yielded on their own cloud, that's what I meant. >> Nothing more than kind of a boutique offering, and certainly there's a market for small regional service providers around the world. No argument there. And there's a natural tendency, but as I look at people going to cloud, the sticking point isn't the hypervisor, the sticking point is the database and the applications, the middleware. This is something Microsoft has done brilliantly with Azure. >> Larry pointed out that's Ernie's call. Microsoft's well ahead of Oracle on migrating their install base half into their cloud. >> And that's what you guys have to try to figure out how to do as well. >> We're well along the way. But the point is that without that franchise, that's a tough road to hoe, right? The infrastructure guys maybe, the applications guys are the ones you want to talk to. >> Peter said, I'd like to get your thoughts on a comment Peter made on our intro with Matt Eastwood from IDC, everything's on the table. Ecosystems, channel partners, >> Chuck: And we're shaking the table apart. >> So if you have the gravity, an Oracle face of the world that's a suite, which I think is a little bit orthogonal to where the cloud is, but I get the language of Oracle the suite. Is it gravity around the suite, not a winner-take-all? >> You got to be able to pick off pieces and they have to stand on their own. >> You could build a ecosystem around that, and open ecosystem, so that means a new lock-in spec is stickyness, or pure performance, or not, am I getting that right? >> I think Oracle's going to try to play on both sides. If you appreciate the value of the suite, the IAS working with a pass, working with a Sass, great, we have all those pieces; pick and choose. Larry made it pretty clear. He wanted to go head-to-head on iops, memory and core, and dollars per whatever. Oracle intends to feed on that as well, so it'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Nothing like a low price to get an IT buyer -- >> Well he said, and the word he called this is interesting, he was overselling in my opinion, I've heard Larry. >> Chuck: Larry? I can't imagine he'd do that. >> Larry was overselling on their earnings call, but I don't think the analysts understand, they don't see the long game. You look down the 20-mile stare, it just hasn't even started for Oracle. >> Larry is a master at the long game in ways that I'm just now starting to appreciate. >> Well, let's be honest. What is the most sticky thing in the industry? Your applications, that's the stickiest thing in the industry. After that, the developer ecosystem and then you get down to the hypervisor, and you get down to the first -- >> Chuck: And then you get to the wires that connect it together and all that kind of stuff. >> But the most sticky thing is the businesses are still run around some of these floor applications. >> Well, that's why I brought up the suite angle, because I think that the developer angle is sticky because agility has proven that not everyone can build a killer app, so for instance, with an HCM there's probably some feature of HCM that is sub-par relative to some genius entrepreneur that eats, breathes that one feature, has an app, that could be integrated into that feature. >> I think that's your point, and with the platform-as-a-service offering, oh, you want to add it, do something different, great. Yes, exactly. >> It's all a continuous development, continuous integration, but that continuity still is close to the application. >> Yeah, ecosystem to me is, I've heard talks about what the developers' market, go-to-market strategy is. If that's in place, Oracle could have a very robust -- >> We're seeing the both the same thing on the hardware and the software. So hardware, build-your-own, is starting to get out of bow, ya know? Less and less popular buying servers and storage and knitting them together. A lot of guys still buy into that, but that market's going down. I think you're going to see the same thing with software and applications. Rather than starting with a blank piece of paper, where are the big chunks of enterprise functionality that I can grab out of the box and build the thing -- >> Reused, preexisting applications. >> Yes, yes! >> Everybody's talking about business capabilities, right? And the idea is that this capability is the things that I have to do to perform the activities to fit my business needs. And those activities are people, and increasingly, software. And being able to grab those capabilites and pick parts of them from the industry and weave them together quickly, continuously sustained, the match with the marketplace, to your point -- >> Well, we're going to have Juan Luzon next, and we're going to go deep on this, but I think -- >> That was a great guy. >> The API economy, if anything, showed us one, security is FUBARed and needs to be fixed fast, and the encryption on a chip thing has been downplayed. I don't know why Fowler's not getting more airtime on that. That's a really huge thing, but the API economy has proven that this ability to pull stuff that someone else has already done, not assembling like a junkyard kind of situation, why build it if someone's got to get it though an API? >> You talk about giving capital management, right? And you know, there's 175 functions, I don't know, some large number of function there, they're fine. I need this one little thing, so I'm just going to extend it, and still do it in such a way that I'm not developing -- >> And a developer who does that becomes a feature in a bigger pie. I mean, he'll make more money, doesn't go out of business, doesn't try to go public. >> So I wanted to share, before we wrapped up, one interesting thought. We all talked about cloud is coming, cloud is coming. I actually got tangible evidence at the beginning of the year that it's here. So a new word was given to me, cloud quotas. Cloud quotas, and it was kind of funny. This is happening mostly in the larger banks. Senior management, executive management, you're a little slow on this cloud thing. Let me help you out. We'll set a strategic objective. Five years from now, how much did we cloud-spend? This year, your cloud quota is 15% between cloud and non-cloud spent. Next year, etc, and I think what we're seeing is that kind of like the gears are starting to rub, between the businesses says, guys, this can't be so hard. Let's get on with it. >> I'm sure your sales guys have cloud quotas, too. >> Different kind of cloud quota. Different kind of cloud quota. >> On that point, 20 years ago, when it became very popular to pay executives on the basis of RONA, return on net assets, it was right about that time that outsourcing got popular. >> Shocking, isn't that, your mess for less, right? >> Sounds like cloud. >> Okay, bottom line, for the folks at home, Oracle's infrastructure stuff that you're involved in is not new, but it's growing now because it didn't have a lot of nurturing. It was always kind of like that back office secret sauce. What's the update, give a quick update. >> We want to give people a strategy for their enterprise applications for cloud. If they want to consume on-prem, great. Engineered system's cloud equivalence. You want to consume off-prem, same set of capabilites and more in our public cloud. You want to consume the public cloud in your data center, that's a cloud machine, and it oughtta be the technology stack and the set of capabilities. Geographical location, the consumption model really doesn't matter, and when we put this in front of large IT shops, and even smaller ones, they're like, this is great. I can build my architecture, I can build my strategy. I don't have to make a cloud decision now, and if I do make one, then I can undo it later. That agility has become very very attractive to people. >> I could invest in options but have a future. >> Chuck Hollis, Senior Vice-President of infrastructure, congratulations, and then Larry Ellison got to the end of his keynote, didn't have a lot of time, but there's a lot of meat on the bone in the keynote, that he kind of, he couldn't hit. Welcome to the cloud, too many product announcements. Welcome to Amazon's world. >> Peter: Seems excited. >> There's a lot of stuff coming down. It was great talking to you guys, thanks for your time. >> Thanks for sharing your insight and the data and the bits here. Here at theCUBE, we're always sending out the packets of content out to the network, live, original content. I'm John for Peter Burris with SiliconANGLE theCUBE. We'll be right back with more live coverage after this short break. >> Hi, I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of

>>Live from Las Vegas, Nevada. It's the cube covering EMC world 2015. Brought to you by EMC, Brocade and VCE. >>Okay. Welcome back everyone. We are live here in Las Vegas with the cube at EMC real 2015. I'm John ferry, the founder of Silicon Ang. I'm joined with two special guests. Stella Lowe. Who's the global communications at EMC runs, global communications and Amy Posey, neuro facilitator at peak teams. Welcome to the cube. >>So >>You had a session women of the world. We did it last year, but great cube session last year. Um, so I want to get a couple of quick questions. What's going on with women of the world, what you guys just came from there and you guys were on the panel and then what is a neuro facilitator? And then let's get into it. Let's talk about men and women, how we work together. >>Okay, great. So let's start with women of world. So, um, so last year we talked about the challenges that we face and how we reframe them into opportunities that we had some fantastic panelists, but this year I was really interested in the science behind men and women. So it's clear that we're different and we're all bled for success, but, but we're wired differently. And we kind of knew that already. I know we talked about it before John, but we now have the science behind it. We can look at brain scans and we can see that we, Oh, we have different brain patterns. We think differently, uh, different parts of the brain fire fire up when, in times of motivation and stress and people like Amy here, who've done lots of work into this, have having the stages. It was great to have her on the panel to discuss it. >>I'm going to give you a plug because EMC does all kinds of things with formula one cars, motorcycles, getting the data and understanding the race. But now you're dealing with people. So what is going on? Tell us what's up neuro facilitator and let's >>So a neuro facilitator is maybe the best made up job title in the world that I gave myself. So essentially what I do is I look at information about the brain and I curate the research that's out there. So there's a lot of new technology to actually read and look inside our heads. We all have a brain, but we don't necessarily all know how it works. So there's a lot more research and, and tools to read our brains and take a look inside. So what I do is I take that research and, and work with, um, neuroscientists and neurobiologist at Stanford, Columbia, UCLA, and, and reach out and figure out how do we take that information and make it easier, still attain. And I do it in the scope of leadership at organizations like EMC and other technology companies to figure out how do we work better? What information is out there? You know, soft skills and sort of relationship skills. I've always been sort of squishy, right? So now there's a lot more science and information about our brains that are informing it. The, the data's out there, what I do and what my job is, is to pull the data and figure out how do we make it into practical, useful applications for us at work at home, wherever we are. So that's essentially, I'm doing so you >>Guys discussed and how men and women are different. Actually look at the data. We have to give a lot of qualitative data. I mean, it keeps counselors in business. You know, the grant in the workforce, uh, balance is important, but we have a lot of that data, but what's the numbers. What is your findings? So >>What's interesting is looking at men and women's brains. What's fascinating is that we are more alike than dissimilar in looking at a brain. If you looked at a brain scan, one of a man and woman, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two, but they're now finding and looking at different parts of the brain in different functions. So for instance, men have approximately 6% more gray matter than women. So in terms of the gray matter, that's the thinking brain essentially, and women have more white matter than gray. Matter about 9% more than men. And the white matter is what connects the brain and communicate both front and back and side to side. And so you can make some extrapolation of that information and say, you know, men may focus more on issues, solutions, problems, whereas women sort of think more broadly or wider. >>So, I mean, there are generalities, but a lot of the sciences is fascinating. There's also some interesting science about the hippocampus, which is, um, sort of deep. If this is your brain, it's deep inside the brain and the hippocampus is the memory center. And it's what they're finding is that for women, they tend to store emotional memories more effectively. So happy, sad, fearful those types of emotions get stored more effectively in the hippocampus. Whereas men oftentimes during stress, the hippocampus actually has a challenge in making connections. So that's where, again, some of the, the focus and determination and silo viewed sometimes that men have in situations or problems comes into play. Um, there's one other piece, the anterior cingulate cortex, which is sort of within the brain and that's the brains error detector. And it turns out it's a little bit bigger in women. So women sort of tend to look for, uh, issues CA you know, problems, um, maybe less solution focused, especially under times of stress and, and a lot of this, data's interesting. >>It, it causes you to make some generalities, you know, not everybody is going to operate in that way. Your mileage may theory, but it's, it's good because it helps us inform some of the quirky behavior that we deal with at work and figuring out why, why don't you do that? Why do you do that and installed that women being better or women using more of the brain or less of the brain it's, it's, it's simply about we, we, if all brains away from differently, we both bring different things to the table. And how do you take both of those benefits and bring them forward into a better outcomes? >>Always great to talk about because in the workforce, people are different. And so differences is a term that we use, like, you know, with kids learn differently, some have evolved differently and men and women have had differences. So the data shows that that's clear. Um, I want to share a quote that my wife shared on Facebook. It says mother, um, well, a worried mother does better research than the FBI. So, um, I bring that up, you know, it's instinctual. So a lot of it's also biological and also environmental talk about the dynamics around that, that wiring, because you're wired by your upbringing too, that affects you. And what's the, what's the data show in the biology. >>So it's interesting because the, the key piece is that it's not just the biological brain differences. It's, it's a whole host of factors that leave a footprint on us, in our behavior. So it's our education, it's our, uh, you know, where we, where we grew up, our culture is part of that. It's also gender stereotypes that play a role in how we operate. And I think all of those things leave a footprint on a, an and lead us to different behaviors. And so you can't just say it's the, the, the information that's on our brains. It's a whole host of factors that influence. So my study of looking at how the brains are a little bit different and what the research is coming, it's, it's blended in with research around leadership and things like confidence and motivation in the workplace bias in the workplace. And they're, they're showing very different things. >>So for instance, if you think about confidence, we did an interesting exercise in the event at women of world. And I asked, you know, there's, there's a lot about confidence and confidence is essentially the will or motivation to act. So how many women in the room, uh, would raise the, you know, go up for a job that they were really interested in and fascinated by, but maybe weren't a hundred percent qualified for, like, how many of you have maybe turned down that job or decided not to apply because it wasn't the right time. Like you, you're pretty competent, but not a hundred percent confident in it. And it was funny because the majority, all the women's hands went up in the room. So then I asked him, I flipped the question in the room and I asked the men in the room. I said, okay, if you were only about 50% confident for a job that you were going up for, would you, of course, right. Like, yes, I >>Fabricate some stuff on their resume and you make >>Them look bigger. So, exactly. So what's interesting is testosterone plays a role in confidence and motivation at work. And it turns out men have 10 times the amount of testosterone as women do. So part of that is that aggression, but we both have it, but that, that aggressive factor, that idea to go after something, to be more confident, um, women are behind the curve in that, from the research that I've seen. So it takes more effort to, to, to be able to have the confidence, to go for it and to sort of break down those barriers that exist for women to, to go after those jobs that they want, even if it's not a hundred percent. And so we did a, an exercise in boosting confidence in testosterone called power posing. And Amy Cuddy out of Harvard does a, a whole Ted talk on it, which is fascinating. >>But the idea is that you, you know, you, you put your chest back, you put your hands on your hips and it helps boost your testosterone up to about 20%. And it reduces cortisol, which is a stress hormone. So it's a, it's a quick way. You don't do it in front of people. You do it sort of on the sly or else you kind of, you don't look very nice to others, but you, you boost your confidence doing that. And it's just a small sort of brain hack that you can do to give yourself an upper hand, knowing that knowing the science behind it. So it's a behavior changing type of research that's coming out, which I think is really, >>That's really interesting, but now it translates into leadership and execution in the workforce. So people are different than men and women are different that changes the dynamic around what good is, because if your point about women not asking for that job or having confidence to the field, like I'm not going to go for it, like a man bravado, whatever testosterone that's what mean that that's the benchmark of what drive means. So this came up with Microsoft CEO at the Anita board conferences, which we had a cube there. And, and this is a big issue. So how do HR, how do the managers, how do people recognize the differences and what does the data show, and, and can you share your thoughts on that? >>Yeah, so I think a lot of it comes down to bias and bias is essentially a shortcut that we use in our brains to take less energy. And it's not a bad thing. It's, it's something we all do. And it's conscious and it's unconscious. So bias, I think is a key piece of that. And the research on bias is fascinating. It's very, it's, it's very popular topic these days, because I think being able to do a couple of things, be aware that there are hundreds of biases and they're both conscious and unconscious, uh, acknowledge that it exists, but not legitimize it not make that. Okay. The third piece is to, to counter it and, and being able to counter bias by making sure that people have opportunities. And even though you may have re removed hypothetical barriers explicitly stating that you want people, men, or women to apply for promotions, be this type of leader, not just assume that because there are no barriers that it's okay, but really be explicit in how you give people opportunities and let them know that they're out there. I think that's really key. >>Yeah. That brings up the point around work life balance, because, you know, I have a family of four, four kids it's stressful just in and of itself to have four kids, but then I go to the workforce and the same with women too. So there's also a home dynamic with leadership and biases and roles. Um, what's your take on any data on the how of that shifting persona realities, if you will, um, shapes the data. >>It's interesting because it's, it's something that we even talked about in the session that it's a struggle and, and, um, Bev career from Intel was talking about that. There's a period of time that actually is really tough to keep women in the workforce. And it's that time where you're growing your family, you're growing your career. And oftentimes things sort of struggle. And I, I read something recently around women in STEM careers, over a 10-year period, 42% of women drop out of the workforce in comparison to 17% of men. And so I think there's a lot, a ways to go in terms of being able to set up environments where working life is integrated, because it's, it's not even balanced anymore. It's integration. And how do you set up structures so that people can do that through how they work through how they connect with others. And, and to me, that's a big piece is how do you keep people in the workforce and still contributing in that critical point in time? And, you know, Intel hasn't figured it out. It's a tough challenge, >>Stamina. We're a big fans of women in tech, obviously because we love tech athletes. We'd love to promote people who are rock stars and technology, whether it's developers to leaders. And I also have a daughter, two daughters. And so two questions. One is women in tech, anything you could share that the data can talk to, to either inspire or give some insight and to, for the young women out there that might not have that cultural baggage, that my generation, at least our worse than older than me have from the previous bias. So motivating young daughters out there, and then how you deal with the career advice for existing women. >>So the motivating young women to get into tech, um, Bev shared a really absolutely fascinating statistic that between the ages of 12 and 18, it's incredibly important to have a male support model for young girls to get into STEM careers, that it was absolutely critical for their success. And it's funny because the question came up like, why can't that be a woman too? And what's interesting. And what we find is oftentimes we give men the short shrift when they try and support women, and we don't want to do that. We want to support men supporting women because when that happens, we all win. Um, and so I think that's a big piece of it is starting young and starting with male support as well as female support. So many women who, who cite men as, as he had mental was in that gray, you know, or in their daily life. And it's pretty important that they can feel that they can do that. >>And this goes back down the wiring data that you have the data on how we're were wired. It's okay, guys, to understand that it's not an apples to apples. So to speak, men are from Mars. Women are from beans, whatever that phrase is, but that's really what the data is. >>And being explicit to men to say, we want you to support women instead of having men take a back seat feeling like maybe this isn't my battle to fight. It's, it's really important to then encourage men to speak up to in those, those situations to, to think about sort of women in tech. One of, uh, a really interesting piece of research that I've seen is about team intelligence and what happens on teams and Anita Willy from Carnegie Mellon produced this really fascinating piece of research on the three things that a team needs to be more intelligent. It's not just getting the smartest people in the room with the highest IQ. That's a part of it. You want table stakes, you want to start with smart people, but she found that having women, more women on a team actually improved the team's overall intelligence, the collective intelligence and success of a team. So more women was the first one. The second was there's this ability and women tend to be better at it, but the ability to read someone's thoughts and emotions just by looking at their eyes. So it's called breeding in the mind's eye. So just taking a look and being able to sense behavior, um, and, and what someone's thinking and feeling, and then being able to adjust to that and pivot on that, not just focusing on the task at hand, but the cohesion of a team with that skill made a difference. >>It's like if it's a total team sport, now that's what you're saying in terms of how use sport analogy, but women now you see women's sports is booming. This brings up my, my, your, uh, awesome research that you just did for the folks out there. Stella was leading this information generation study and the diversity of use cases now with tech, which is why we love tech so much. It's not just the geeky programmer, traditional nail role. You mentioned team, you've got UX design. You have, um, real time agile. So you have more of a, whether it's a rowing analogy or whatever sport or music, collaboration, collaboration is key. And there's so many new disciplines. I mean, I'll share data that I have on the cube looking at all the six years and then even women and men, the pattern that's coming up is women love the visualization. It's weird. I don't know if that's just so it's in the data, but like data scientists that render into reporting and visualization, not like just making slides like in the data. Yeah. So, but they're not writing, maybe not Python code. So what do you guys see similar patterns in terms of, uh, information generation, it's sexy to have an iWatch. It's >>Cool. So like a cry from Intel on the panel, she gave a great statistic that actually, uh, it's more it's women that are more likely to make a decision on consumer tech than men. And yet a lot of the focus is about trying to build tech for men, uh, on the, you know, if consumer tech companies want to get this right, they need to start thinking about what are women looking for, uh, because, uh, they're the ones that are out there making these decisions, the majority of those decisions. >>Yeah. I mean, it's an old thing back in the day when I was in co, um, right out of college and doing my first startup was the wife test. Yeah. Everything goes by the wife because you want to have collaborative decision-making and that's kind of been seen as a negative bias or reinforcement bias, but I think what guys mean is like, they want to get their partner involved. Yeah. So how do, how do we change the biases? And you know, where I've talked to a guy who said, the word geek is reinforcing a bias or nerd where like, I use that term all the time, um, with science, is there, I mean, we had the, the lawsuit with Kleiner Perkins around the gender discrimination. She wasn't included. I mean, what's your take on all of this? I mean, how does someone practically take the data and put it into practice? >>I think the big thing is, you know, like I said, acknowledging that it exists, right? It's out there. We've been, I feel like our brains haven't necessarily adapted to the modern workplace and the challenges that we've dealt with because the modern workplace is something that was invented in the 1960s and our brains have evolved over a long time. So being able to handle some of the challenges that we have, especially on how men and women operate differently at the workplace, I think is key, but calling it out and making it okay to acknowledge it, but then counter where it needs to be countered where it's not right. And being explicit and having the conversations I think is the big piece. And that's what struck me with the Kleiner Perkins deal was let's have the conversation it's out there. A lot of times people are reticent to, to have the conversation because it's awkward and I need to be PC. And I'm worried about things. It's the elephant in the room, right. But it actually is. Dialogue is far better than leaving it. >>People are afraid. I mean, guys are afraid. Women are afraid. So it's a negative cycle. If it's not an out in the open, that's what I'm saying. >>And the idea is it's, what can we do collectively better to, to be more positive, to, to frame it more positively, because I think that makes a bigger difference in terms, in terms of talking about, Oh, we're different. How are we the same? How can we work together? What is the, the connection point that you bring, you bring, we all bring different skills and talents to the table. I think it's really taking a look at that and talking about it and calling it out and say, I'm not great at this. You're great at this. Let's, let's work together on what we can do, uh, more effectively, >>Okay. Team sports is great. And the diversity of workforce and tech is an issue. That's awesome. So I'd ask you to kind of a different question for both of you guys. What's the biggest surprise in the data and it could be what reinforced the belief or insight into something new share, uh, a surprise. Um, it could be pleasant or creepy or share it. >>Price to me is intuition. So we always talk about women having intuitions. I've had men say, you know, well, my wife is so intuitive. She kind of, she kinda gets that and I've had that in the workplace as well. And I think the biggest surprise for me was that we can now see, we've now proved the intuition. Intuition is a thing that women have, and it's about this kind of web thinking and connecting the dots. Yeah. So we sort of store these memories deep, deep inside. And then when we see something similar, we then make that connection. We call it intuition, but it's actually something it's a kind of a, you know, super recall if you like, and, and, and replaying that situation. But that I think was the biggest surprise to me, Amy. So I would think that the thing that, that always astonishes me is the workplace environment and how we set up environments sometimes to shoot ourselves in the foot. >>So, so often we'll set up, uh, a competitive environment, whatever it is, let's let's and it's internal competition. Well, it turns out that the way that the brain chemicals work in women is that competition actually froze us into, to stress or threat cycle much more easily than it does to men, but men need it to be able to get to optimal arousal. There's a lot of interesting research from Amy Ernest in, at Yale and, and that piece of how you can manipulate your environment to be more successful together to me is absolutely key. And being able to pull out elements of competition, but also elements of collaboration, you kind of knew it, but the science validates it and you go, this is why we need to make sure there's a balance between the two. So everyone's successful. So to me, that's the aha. I could listen to Amy all day and how we apply it to the workplace. That's the next big step. Yeah. >>Yeah. You guys are awesome. And thanks so much for sharing and I wish we could go long. We're getting the hook here on time, but is there any links and locations websites we can, people can go to to get more information on the studies, the science. So I, a lot of my day curating >>And looking for more research. So peak teams.com/blog is where I do a lot of my writing and suggestions. Um, it's peak teams, P E K T E M s.com. And so I run our blog and kind of put my musings every once in a while up there so that people can see what I'm working on. Um, but they can reach out at any time. And I'm on Twitter at, at peak teams geek. Speaking of geeks, I embraced the geek mentality, right? >>Well, we have, I think geeks comment personally, but, um, final point, I'll give you the last word, Amy, if you could have a magic wand to take the science and change the preferred vision of the future with respect to men and women, you know, working cohesively together, understanding that we're different decoupled in science. Now, what would you want to see for the environment work force, life balance? What would be the magic wand that you would change? >>I think being able to make women more confident by helping reduce bias with everybody. So being more keyed in to those biases that we have in those automatic things we do to shortcut and to be more aware of them and work on them together and not see them as bad, but see them as human. So I think that's my big takeaway is remove, remove more bias. >>Fantastic. Stella Lowe, and Amy Posey here inside the cube. Thanks so much. Congratulations on your great work. Great panel. We'll continue. Of course, we have a special channel on SiliconANGLE's dot TV for women in tech. Go to SiliconANGLE dot DV. We've got a lot of cube alumni. We had another one here today with Amy. Thank you for joining us. This is the cube. We'll be right back day three, bringing it to a close here inside the cube live in Las Vegas. I'm John Forney. We'll be right back after this short break.