>>Good morning from Los Angeles, Lisa Martin here at Qube con cloud native con north America, 2021. This is the cubes third day, a wall-to-wall coverage. So great to be back at an event in person I'm excited to be joined by Vince Wang, senior director of products at 49. We're going to talk security and Kubernetes then welcome to the program. >>Thank you for having me. >>So I always love talking to 40 minutes. Cybersecurity is something that is such an impersonal interest of mine. The fording that talks about the importance of integrating security and compliance and the dev sec ops workflow across the container life cycle. Why is this important and how do you help companies achieve it? >>Well, as companies are making digital innovations, they're trying to move faster and as to move faster, or many companies are shifting towards a cloud native approach, uh, rapid integrations, rapid development, and rapid deployment, uh, but sometimes speed, you know, there's a benefit to that, but there's also the downside of that, where, you know, you can lose track of issues and you can, uh, introduce a human error in a problem. So as part of the, as part of the, the, the means to deliver fast while maintaining his six year approach, where both the company and the organizations delivering it and their end customers, it's important to integrate security throughout the entire life cycle. From the moment you start planning and development, and people's in process to when you're developing it and then deploying and running in production, um, the entire process needs to be secured, monitored, and, um, and vetted regularly with good quality, um, processes, deep visibility, and an integrated approach to the problem. Um, and I think the other thing to also consider is in this day and age with the current situation with COVID, there's a lot of, uh, development of employment in terms of what I call NASA dental Baltic cloud, where you're deploying applications in random places, in places that are unplanned because you need speed and that, uh, diversity of infrastructure and diversity of, uh, of clouds and development and things to consider then, uh, produces a lot of, uh, you know, uh, opportunities for security and, and challenges to come about. >>And we've seen so much change from a security perspective, um, the threat landscape over the last 18 months. So it's absolutely critical that the integration happens shifting left. Talk to us about now let's switch topics. Application teams are adopting CIC D uh, CICB workflows. Why does security need to be at the center of that adoption? >>Well, it goes back to my earlier point where when you're moving fast, your organizations are doing, um, you're building, deploying, running continuously and monitoring, and then improving, right? So the idea is you're, you're creating smaller, incremental changes, throwing it to the cloud, running it, adjusting it. So then you're, you're rapidly integrating and you're rapidly developing and delivery. And again, it comes down to that, that rapid nature, uh, things can happen. There's, there's more, uh, more points of touching and there's more points of interactions. And, you know, and again, when you're moving that fast, it's really easy to, um, miss things along the way. So as you have security as a core fundamental element of that DNA, as you're building it, uh, that that's in parallel with everything you're doing, you just make sure that, um, when you do deliver something that is the most secure application possible, you're not exposing your customers or your organizations to unforeseen risks that just kind of sits there. >>Uh, and I think part of that is if you think about cloud infrastructure, misconfiguration is still number one, uh, biggest problem with, uh, with security on the, in the cloud space, there's, uh, tasks and vulnerabilities those, we all know, and there's there's means to control that, but the configurations, when you're storing the data, the registries, all these different considerations that go into a cloud environment, those are the things that organizations need visibility on. And, um, the ability to, to adopt their processes, to be proactive in those things and know what they, uh, do. They just need to know what, what then, where are they're operating in, um, to kind of make these informed decisions. >>That visibility is key. When you're talking with customers in any industry, what are the top three, let's say recommendations to say, here's how you can reduce your exposure to security vulnerabilities in the CIS CD pipeline. What are some of the things that you recommend there to reduce the risk? >>There's a couple, oh, obviously security as a fundamental practice. We've been talking about that. So that's number one, key number. The second thing that I would say would be, uh, when you're adopting solutions, you need to consider the fact that there is a very much of a heterogeneous environment in today's, uh, ecosystem, lots of different clouds, lots of different tools. So integration is key. The ability to, um, have choices of deployment, uh, in terms of where you wanted to play. You don't want to deploy based upon the technology limitations. You want to deploy and operate your business to meet your business needs and having the right of integrations and toolings to, uh, have that flexibility. Now, option is key. And I think the third thing is once you have security, the choices, then you can treat, you create a situation where there's a lot of, uh, you know, process overhead and operational overhead, and you need a platform, a singular cybersecurity platform to kind of bring it all in that can work across multiple technologies and environments, and still be able to control at the visibility and consolidate, uh, policies and nationally consistent across all closet points. >>So we're to the DevOps folks, what are some of the key considerations that they need to take into >>Account to ensure that their container strategy isn't compromising security? Well, I think it comes down to having to think outside of just dev ops, right? You have to, we talk about CIC D you have to think beyond just the build process beyond just where things live. You have to think continuous life cycles and using a cyber security platform that brings it together, such as we have the Fortinet security fabric that does that tying a lot of different integration solutions. We work well within their core, but theirs have the ability to integrate well into various environments that provide that consistent policies. And I think that's the other thing is it's not just about integration. It's about creating that consistency across class. And the reality is also for, I think today's dev ops, many organizations are in transition it's, you know, as, as much as we all think and want to kind of get to that cloud native point in time, the reality is there's a lot of legacy things. >>And so dev ops set ups, the DevSecOps, all these different kind of operational functions need to consider the fact that everything is in transition. There are legacy applications, they are new cloud native top first type of application delivery is using containers of various technologies. And there needs to be a, again, that singular tool, the ability to tie this all together as a single pane of glass, to be able to then navigate emerge between legacy deployments and applications with the new way of doing things and the future of doing things with cloud native, uh, and it comes down again to, to something like the Fortinet security fabric, where we're tying things together, having solutions that can deploy on any cloud, securing any application on any cloud while bringing together that consistency, that visibility and the single point management, um, and to kind of lower that operational overhead and introduce security as part of the entire life cycle. >>Do you have a Vincent example of a customer that 49 has worked with that has done this, that you think really shows the value of what you're able to enable them to achieve? >>We do. We do. We have lots of customers, so can name any one specific customer for various reasons, you know, it's security after all. Um, but the, the most common use cases when customers look at it, that when you, we talked to a CIO, CSO CTO is I think that's a one enter they ask us is, well, how do we, how do we manage in this day and age making these cloud migrations? Everyone? I think the biggest challenge is everyone is in a different point in time in their cloud journey. Um, there's if you talk to a handful of customers or a rueful customers, you're not going to find one single organization that's going to be at the same point in time that matches them yet another person, another organization, in terms of how they're going about their cloud strategies, where they're deploying it at what stage of evolution there are in their organizational transformations. >>Um, and so what they're looking for is that, that that's the ability to deploy and security any application on any topic throughout their entire application life cycle. Um, and so, so the most common things that, that our customers are looking for, um, and, you know, they're doing is they're looking to secure things on the network and then interconnected to the cloud with, uh, to deliver that superior, uh, application experience. So they were deploying something like the security fabric. Uh, again, you know, Fordanet has a cybersecurity approach to that point and securing the native environments. They're looking at dev ops, they're deploying tooling to provide, uh, you know, security posture management, plus a few posture management to look at the things that are doing that, the registries, their environment, the dev environment, to then securing their cloud, uh, networks, uh, like what we do with our FortiGate solutions, where we're deploying things from the dev ops. >>I feel secure in the cloud environment with our FortiGate environments across all the various multitudes of cloud providers, uh, like, uh, AWS Azure, Google cloud, and that time that together with, with some secure, um, interconnections with SD LAN, and then tying that into the liver and productions, um, on the web application side. So it's a very much a continuous life cycle, and we're looking at various things. And again, the other example we have is because of the different places in different, uh, in terms of Tod journeys, that the number one key is the ability to then have that flexibility deployment to integrate well into existing infrastructure and build a roadmap out for, uh, cloud as they evolve. Because when you talk to customers today, um, they're not gonna know where they're going to be tomorrow. They know they need to get there. Uh, they're not sure how they're going to get there. And so what they're doing now is they're getting to cloud as quickly as they can. And then they're looking for flexibility to then kind of adjust and they need a partner like Fordanet to kind of bring that partnership and advisorship to, uh, to those organizations as they make their, their, their strategies clearer and, uh, adjust to new business demands. >>Yeah. That partnership is key there. So afforded it advocates, the importance of taking a platform approach to the application life cycle. Talk to me about what that means, and then give me like the top three considerations that customers need to be considering for this approach. >>Sure. Number one is how flexible is that deployment in terms of, do you, do customers have the option to secure and deploy any application, any cloud, do they have the flexibility of, um, integrating security into their existing toolings and then, uh, changing that out as they need, and then having a partner and a customer solution that kind of grows with that? I think that's the number one. Number two is how well are these, uh, integrations or these flexible options tied together? Um, like what we do with the security fabric, where everything kind of starts with, uh, the idea of a central management console that's, you know, uh, and consistent policies and security, um, from the get-go. And I think the third is, is looking at making sure that the, the, the security integrations, the secure intelligence is done in real time, uh, with a quality source of information, uh, and, and points of, uh, of responsiveness, um, what we do with four guard labs. >>For example, we have swell of large, um, machine learning infrastructure where have supported by all the various customer inputs and great intelligence organizations, but real time intelligence and percussion as part of that deployment life cycle. Again, this kind of really brings it all together, where organizations looking for application security and, and trying to develop in a CSED fashion. And you have the ability to then have security from the get, go hide ident to the existing toolings for flexibility, visibility, and then benefits from security all along the way with real time, you know, uh, you know, leading edge security, that then kind of brings that, that sense of confidence and reassurance as they're developing, they don't need to worry about security. Security should just be part of that. And they just need to worry about solving the customer problems and, uh, and, you know, delivering business outcomes and results. >>That's it, right? It's all about those business outcomes, but delivering that competence is key. Vince, thank you for joining me on the program today, talking through what 49 is doing, how you're helping customers to integrate security and compliance into the dev dev sec ops workflow. We appreciate your insights. >>Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. My >>Pleasure for vents Wang. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube live from Los Angeles, uh, cube con and cloud native con 21 stick around at Dave Nicholson will join me next with my next guest.

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of IBM. Think 20, 21 brought to you by IBM, >>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of IBM, think 20, 21. We're gonna talk about the edge. Like what is the edge, how it's going to evolve. And we're gonna take a look at an autonomous vessel use case, which is quite interesting with me as Rob high. He was an IBM fellow VP and CTO. IBM edge computing. Rob. Welcome. Great to see you again. Thanks Dave. Appreciate that. Yeah. So let's start with the basic question here. You know, people's like, Oh, what is the edge? Like, it's one big thing and it's not, it's it's many things, but how should we think about the edge and why should enterprises, you know, feel like it's necessary to begin to lean in? >>Well, so let's just start with the use cases. Uh, you know, what edge means is the ability to put a camera on a manufacturing floor, you know, perhaps juxtaposed with a robot monitoring the work that the robot is doing using AI visual recognition to detect whether what that robot is doing is producing high quality parts or not. And to be able to do that in real time, to be able to use that analytic thin to, you know, quickly remediate any kind of quality issues, uh, helps lower costs, it helps increase your yield and it helps increase the overall efficiency of your production processes. Or if not that then putting it in something a little bit. It's perhaps a little bit more familiar to us, the idea of an autonomous vehicle, you know, being able to, you know, drive and, and, uh, do driver assistance to drivers safety kinds of features, you know, all of that requires compute and having that compute where people are actually performing these tasks based on the data that they're receiving at the moment that they receive it, they are able to process that real time, be able to give them the feedback that allows them to make better decisions, to be able to do that. >>Not only with lower latency, but actually with better protection of their data, uh, better protection of their personal information or private information. If you're thinking about, you know, the business in which they operate, you know, be able to do that, even when the network fails, be able to do that without necessarily having to transmit tons and tons of data back to the cloud, especially if you end up not actually using that anywhere. That's what as computing really means. >>Yeah. So it sounds like the edge isn't that maybe we shouldn't think of it as a place, but the most logical place to process the data, um, depending on latency and other factors, it's a, that's a good way to look at it. So >>It's just where we do our work. >>Yeah. Well, you do the work, right? That's that makes a lot of sense. Thank you for that. So, you know, we always were talking about the pandemic changing the way we think about things. And I wonder if you can comment on, on the, the edge context as come back from, you know, work from home or remote work, um, you know, think 20, 22, we hope it's going to be face-to-face could edge play a part in that has the pandemic, uh, made you think differently about the opportunities at edge? >>Yeah. And in fact, what we've seen is the pandemic is actually beginning to accelerate digital transformation. If you think about it, you know, any store that wanted to survive the same Deming could only do so by basically introducing a digital presence, you know, the ability to buy online. And even if you're picking up at the store, picking up the curbside, you know, you can't go into a restaurant without getting that QR code that gives you, you know, your digital menu, um, trying to get workers back into both the factories, as well as the warehouses and offices, and to do so safely, be able to ensure that they're wearing the face mask and socially distancing properly. All of these things I think have driven digital transformation. And if you think about the task of, you know, buying online and picking up the store while store is better, have a pretty good idea of where their inventory is. >>Um, they need to know exactly where that product is so they can quickly pick it and get it available to the client before they arrive at the store. Um, and so that's edge computing. We need edge computing to be able to automate the processes of inventory tracking down to individual items and where they're located throughout the store to be able to do the recognition for whether people are or are not being changing their social distancing or wearing their PPE, um, to be able to ensure that our processes are as automated as possible to limit the amount of human interaction that's required in order to perform these processes. All of that I think has accelerated both digital transformation, as well as particularly the use of edge computing, uh, in, in all of our businesses. >>I think about, you know, the forced March to digital in 2020. And if you weren't a digital business, you were out of business, but to your, my big takeaway from what you just said is that digital transformation is just starting and now people really have some time to think about that, that digital strategy. And as we think about doing things more safely, maybe with less human intervention, we love autonomous vehicles. Examples just cause because there's a technically they're challenging, but, but I wonder if you could tell us the story of the Mayflower autonomous ship it's it's upcoming journey, it's going to be cruelest across the Atlantic, unbelievable collecting data, you know, talk about how edge relates to that story. What can you tell us? >>Well, first of all, this is simply talk about the task of navigating a ship from one port on one side of the world to another port across the ocean, across the Atlantic. Um, you know, the ocean is a dangerous place. Uh, yes, it's wide open it's, you know, lots of water, but the reality is it's full of barriers. Of course, you've got land barriers, you've got other ships, you've got Marine life, you've got debris that gets stuck dropped in the ocean. And so the task of navigating is actually quite difficult. And again, to the same point that we've made earlier, you have to have local compute in order to really be able to make those decisions fast enough with enough acuity, with enough clarity, to be able to, um, to be able to safely safely navigate around those kinds of obstacles. So we have to put compute in the ship. >>So the Mayflower ship is as I sort of implied, uh, a, a ship that will be autonomous. There are no human beings involved in the, in operating the ship. It has to be able to on its own, both recognize these obstacles, recognize on the ship, recognize about recognized, um, you know, that cargo container that happened to fallen off, uh, some other ship and floating through the ocean, uh, recognize, you know, uh, rain life, uh, whales and other, other, uh, fish and birds that might be, uh, uh, on, in the way. Um, and, and, and to be able to, um, do all that, you know, entirely without any human intervention. So that compute power is really a prime example of an edge computer. It is compute in the, in the business of navigation, uh, making decisions about, um, the things that it sees and, and making decisions about how best to circumvent those issues. >>Um, now along the way, I should also say part of what the med flagship is going to do is not only exercise the task of navigation and prove that, um, these algorithms can efficiently and effectively, uh, bring that shift from one side of the world to be upside safe, but along the way, it's going to conduct science is going to, um, collect water samples for the, um, chemical makeup of, of the oceans at various points along the way, it's going to be sampling for microplastics or, uh, examining phytoplankton for its health and life. Uh, it's going to be the detecting wave motions and the wave energy that might be indicative of how the world is transforming in the presence of global climate change. Um, these science packages that are going to be formed are also being performed autonomously without human intervention. And that actually opens up a very exciting potential future, which is the idea of these autonomous ships navigating the oceans, collecting data that can then be brought back for the scientists to examine so that they, the scientists are not having to go out and spend weeks and months at a time in perilous conditions. >>These potentially the only conditions, um, collected that data, but rather they can remain safely at land. The ship will collect the data and they can analyze that data from their home labs. So this is actually a really exciting project, but one that I think would demonstrate not only the idea of edge computing, but also the advances in navigation and Marine science. >>Yeah, because I mean, the ship has to navigate itself. Not only is it bringing back data, but there's a great, great example. I met a lot of the work in machine intelligence today is done in the modeling side. This is, this, this is inference going on in near real time. Uh, which we think is where, where the, the, the action is. That's why we love the autonomous, because there's a lot of IBM tech involved in here as well. Is there not, I mean, you've got to have software and you've got your edge devices. You've got, you know, automation capabilities. I mean, it's not right. That this is like serious technical challenge. >>Yeah. Well, we were approached by the primary team on this project and it didn't take us long to realize the utility that some of our technology would have to advancing their project. And so you're right. I mean, we have things like operational decision manager, ODM, which typically is used in the financial services industry, but now it's being applied to the rules of navigation. We've called the Culver over cold rags. Um, we've got, uh, our AI services that do visual recognition because obviously we've got to be able to detect and identify, um, the things that, that the ship is seeing along the way and be able to distinguish what those things are. Uh, we have our IBM edge application manager, which is being used to manage deployment of these kinds of workloads, and frankly, all of the workloads that are hosted in the ship, getting that managed and deployed onto the ship. Uh, and, and of course, you know, all these things have to be integrated. And so that's just a small sampling of the kinds of technologies, but it's a good example of where I think the edge kind of represents the combination of what we have all been working with in this industry, which is how do we bring technologies together, the solver problem as an integrated solution, >>You mentioned financial services. So I wonder if we could, you know, think beyond shipping maybe, uh, what, what are you seeing in other industries? Are there any patterns that are developing where clients are saying, Hey, we need this sort of this capability. What can you tell us? >>So edge computing is it's probably greatest demand right now in manufacturing, uh, in industrial four dash zero, uh, kinds of, uh, environments where, you know, most of the industry, the industrial industry, the markets have grown up largely dependent upon operations, technology, OT, but one of the things that people need in these kinds of environments is the additional benefits that come from AI. And we've talked about, you know, using AI to do visual recognition on manufacturing processes, looking at quality inspection, for example, but you know, there's other aspects of production optimization of worker safety. We talked a little bit about that, um, around, uh, you know, predictive maintenance and asset management, uh, you know, these kinds of additional things that are necessary to really run your factory efficiently, or you're, you know, you're a drilling rig or your energy production systems. All these kinds of industrial processes can benefit from the advances that are occurring in analytics in, um, in, and then of course, having localized compute to do that with, to both do those kinds of decisions in real time, but also to offload the amount of transmission, the data that we have the transmitting back to the cloud. >>So industry four O or manufacturing is one big area retail. We talked a little bit about that, but you think about, you know, point of sale terminals, and the idea of being able to brute two offers at point of sale, to be able to do price checking to help you navigate the store is digital signage. Um, you know, all the user experiences, spillage and spoilage and loss prevention, these are all kinds of use cases that will benefit retail retailers, um, lot of demand. And of course, again, the need to be able to do that locally within the store, we talked to touch a little bit on automotive. The whole automotive industry right now is going through a really fundamental transformation where virtually every automobile now is being imbued with more and more compute capacity and localized processing for doing driver's safety and, and car maintenance and, and, and even short of, you know, full autonomy, which is of course is another topic in its own, right? Uh, lots of experiences that can be brought there as well. So lots of opportunity in distribution, manufacturing, retail banking, uh, uh, virtually every industry that we've looked at has some opportunity for, um, leveraging the benefit that does computing. >>It's hard to get cars right now because the chip short is. But, um, I wonder real quick, if you could talk about 5g, you hear a lot about 5g, there's a ton tons of hype there. Uh, how should we be thinking about 5g? How real is it? What's your take in terms of its impact on the edge? >>So a couple of thoughts here. One is 5g obviously is accelerating, and it has the effect of accelerating edge computing, because one of the benefits of 5g of course, is lower latency and higher bandwidth. And that kind of opens people's minds, the potential to leverage the network connectivity of equipment that otherwise, you know, is hard to connect. If you think about the factory floor for a moment in all the kinds of equipment you have on the factory floor, if you had to hard wire, all that equipment to get access to the compute power on that, that could be a very expensive proposition. You'd like to kind of wirelessly connect that equipment. And that's one of the things that 5g brings to the table, because some of the spectrum that five peak uses has less potential to interfere with that equipment then than you would otherwise. So I think that what we're going to see is 5g will sort of disproportionately benefit I'll call them industrial or commercial unit use cases as compared to 4g and LTE, which were very much centered on consumer use cases. 5g is accelerating as competing in a many ways. 5g actually depends on edge computing. It doesn't mean that we can't do educated beginning without 5g. We can, we can certainly do it for DLP than wireline. Uh, but I think 5g is going to have a very symbiotic effect on, on edge computing, >>Just like wifi was enabler on mobile, but this is a, you know, much, much, much larger potential. Rob. We got to go, thanks so much for coming on and sharing your insights. Love to have you back. Awesome. All right. Appreciate it. Thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for the cubes coverage of IBM. Think 2020, 21, 2021. We'll be right back.