>>The cube presents, Dell technologies world brought to you by Dell. >>Welcome back to the cube. Lisa Martin and Dave Vale are live in Las Vegas. We are covering our third day of covering Dell technologies world 2022. The first live in-person event since 2019. It's been great to be here. We've had a lot of great conversations about all the announcements that Dell has made in the last couple of days. And we're gonna unpack a little bit more of that. Now. One of our alumni is back with us. Shannon champion joins us again, vice president product marketing at Dell technologies, and she's a company by Pete Robinson, the director of infrastructure engineering at Salesforce. Welcome. Thank >>You. >>So Shannon, you had a big announcement yesterday. I run a lot of new software innovations. Did >>You hear about that? I heard a little something >>About that. Unpack that for us. >>Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, it's so exciting to be here in person and have such a big moment across our storage portfolio, to see that on the big stage, the boom to announce major updates across power store, PowerMax and power flex all together, just a ton of innovation across the storage portfolio. And you probably also heard a ton of focus on our software driven innovation across those products, because our goal is really to deliver a continuously modern storage experience. That's what our customers are asking us for that cloud experience. Let's take the most Val get the most value from data no matter where it lives. That's on premises in the public clouds or at the edge. And that's what we, uh, unveil. That's what we're releasing. And that's what we're excited to talk about. >>Now, Pete, you, Salesforce is a long time Dell customer, but you're also its largest PowerMax customer. The biggest in the world. Tell us a little bit about what you guys are doing with PowerMax and your experience. >>Yeah, so, um, for Salesforce, trust is our number one value and that carries over into the infrastructure that we develop, we test and, and we roll out and Parex has been a key part of that. Um, we really like the, um, the technology in terms of availability, reliability, um, performance. And it, it has allowed us to, you know, continue to grow our customers, uh, continue needs for more and more data. >>So what was kind of eye popping to me was the emphasis on security. Not that you've not always emphasized security, but maybe Shannon, you could do a rundown of, yeah. Maybe not all the features, but give us the high level. And at Pete, I, I wonder how I, if you could comment on how, how you think about that as a practitioner, but please give us that. >>Sure. Yeah. So, you know, PowerMax has been leading for, uh, a long time in its space and we're continuing to lean into that and continue to lead in that space. And we're proud to say PowerMax is the world's most secure mission, critical storage platform. And the reason we can say that is because it really is designed for comprehensive cyber resiliency. It's designed with a zero trust security architecture. And in this particular release, there's 19 different security features really embedded in there. So I'm not gonna unpack all 19, but a couple, um, examples, right? So multifactor authentication also continuous ransomware anomaly detection, a leveraging cloud IQ, which is, uh, huge. Um, and last but not least, um, we have the industry's most granular cyber recovery at scale PowerMax can do up to 65 million imutable snapshots per array. So just, uh, and that's 30 times more than our next nearest competitor. So, you know, really when you're talking about recovery point objectives, power max can't be beat. >>So what does that mean to you, Pete? >>Uh, well, it's it's same thing that I was mentioning earlier about that's a trust factor. Uh, security is a big, a big part of that. You know, Salesforce invests heavily into the securing our customer data because it really is the, the core foundation of our success and our customers trust us with their data. And if we, if we were to fail at that, you know, we would lose that trust. And that's simply not, it's not an option. >>Let's talk about that trust for a minute. We know we've heard a lot about trust this week from Michael Dell. Talk to us about trust, your trust, Salesforce's trust and Dell technologies. You've been using them a long time, but cultural alignment yeah. Seems to be pretty spot on. >>I, I would agree. Um, you know, both companies have a customer first mentality, uh, you know, we, we succeed if the customer succeeds and we see that going back and forth in that partnership. So Dell is successful when Salesforce is successful and vice versa. So, um, when we've it's and it goes beyond just the initial, you know, the initial purchase of, of hardware or software, you know, how you operate it, how you manage it, um, how you continue to develop together. You know, our, you know, we work closely with the Dell engineering teams and we've, we've worked closely in development of the new, new PowerMax lines to where it's actually able to help us build our, our business. And, and again, you know, continue to help Dell in the process. So you've >>Got visibility on the new, a lot of these new features you're playing around with them. What I, I, I obviously started with security cuz that's on top of everybody's mind, but what are the things are important to you as a customer? And how do these features the new features kind of map into that? Maybe you could talk about your experience with the, I think you're in beta, maybe with these features. Maybe you could talk about that. >>Yeah. Um, probably the, the biggest thing that we're seeing right now, other than OB the obvious enhancements in hardware, which, which we love, uh, you know, better performance, better scalability, better, and a better density. Um, but also the, some of the software functionality that Dells starting to roll out, you know, we've, we've, we've uh, implemented cloud IQ for all of our PowerMax systems and it's the same thing. We continue to, um, find features that we would like. And we've actually, you know, worked closely with the cloud IQ team. And within a matter of weeks or months, those features are popping up in cloud IQ that we can then continue to, to develop and, and use. >>Yeah. I think trust goes both ways in our partnership, right? So, you know, Salesforce can trust Dell to deliver the, you know, the products they need to deliver their business outcomes, but we also have a relationship to where we can trust that Salesforce is gonna really help us develop the next generation product that's gonna, you know, really deliver the most value. Yeah. >>Can you share some business outcomes that you've achieved so far leveraging power max and how it's really enabled, maybe it's your organization's productivity perspective, but what are some of those outcomes that you've achieved so far? >>Um, there there's so many to, to, to choose from, but I would say the, probably the biggest thing that we've seen is a as we roll out new infrastructure, we have various generations that we deploy. Um, when we went to the new PowerMax, um, initially we were concerned about whether our storage infrastructure could keep up with the new compute, uh, systems that we were rolling out. And when we went through and began testing it, we came to realize that the, the performance improvements alone, that we were seeing were able to keep up with the compute demand, making that transition from the older VMAX platforms to the PMAX practically seamless and able to just deploy the new SKUs as, as they came out. >>Talk about the portfolio that you apply to PowerMax. I mean, it's the highest of the highest end mission critical the toughest workloads in the planet. Salesforce has made a lot of acquisitions. Yeah. Um, do you throw everything at PowerMax? Are you, are you selective? What's your strategy there? So >>It's, it's selective. In other words that there's no square peg that meets every need, um, you know, acquisitions take some time to, to ingest, um, you know, some run into cloud, some run in first, in, in first party. Um, but so we, we try to take a very, very intentional approach to where we deploy that technology. >>So 10 years ago, someone in your position, or maybe someone who works for you was probably do spent a lot of time managing lawns and tuning performance. And how has that changed? >>We don't do that. <laugh> we? >>We can, right. So what do you do with right. Talk, talk more double click on that. So how talk about how that transition occurred from really non-productive activities, managing storage boxes. Yeah. And, and where you are today, what are you doing with those resources? >>It, it, it all comes outta automation. Like, you know, the, you know, hardware is hardware to a point, um, but you reach a point where the, the manageability scale just goes exponential and, and we're way, well past that. And the only way we've been able to meet that, meet that need is to, to automate and really develop our operations, to be able to not just manage at a lung level or even at the system level, but manage at the data center level at the geographical, you know, location level and then being able to, to manage from there. >>Okay. Really stupid question. But I'm gonna ask it cause I wanna hear your answer. True. Why can't you just take a software defined storage platform and just run everything on that? Why do you need all these different platforms and why do you gotta spend all this money on PowerMax? Why, why can't you just do >>That? That's the million dollar question. Uh, I, I ask that all the time. <laugh>, um, I think software defined is it's on its way. Um, it's come a long way just in the last decade. Yeah. Um, but in terms of supporting what I consider mission critical, large scale, uh, applications, it's, it's not, it's just simply not on par just yet with what we do with PowerMax, for example. >>And that's exactly how we position it in our portfolio. Right? So PowerMax runs on 95% of the fortune 100 companies, top 20 healthcare companies, top 10 financial services companies in the world. So it's really mission critical high end has all of the enterprise level features and capabilities to really have that availability. That's so important to a lot of companies like Salesforce and, and Pete's right, you know, software define is on its way and it provides a lot of agility there. But at the end of the day for mission critical storage, it's all about PowerMax. >>I wonder if we're ever gonna get to, I mean, you, you, you, it was interesting answer cuz you kind of, I inferred from your that you're hopeful and even optimistic that someday will get to parody. But I wonder because you can't be just close enough. It's almost, you have to be. >>I think, I think the key answer to that is it's it's the software flying gets you halfway there. The other side of the coin is the application ecosystem has to change to be able to solve that other, other side of it. Cuz if you simply simply take an application that runs on a PowerMax and try to run it, just forklift it over to a software defined. You're not gonna have very much luck. >>Recovery has to be moved up to stack >>Operations recovery, the whole, whole whole works. >>Jenny, can you comment on how customers like Salesforce? Like what's your process for involving them in testing in roadmap and in that direction, strategic direction that you guys are going? Great >>Question. Sure. Yeah. So, you know, customer feedback is huge. You've heard it. I'm sure this is not new right product development and engineering. We love to hear from our customers. And there's multiple ways you heard about beta testing, which we're really fortunate that Salesforce can help us provide that feedback for our new releases. But we have user groups, we have forums. We, we hear directly from our sales teams, our, you know, our customers, aren't shy, they're willing to give us their feedback. And at the end of the day, we take that feedback and make sure that we're prioritizing the right things in our product management and engineering teams so that we're delivering the things that matter. Most first, >>We've heard a lot of that this week. So I would agree guys, thank you so much for joining Dave and me talking about Salesforce. What you doing with PowerMax? All the stuff that you announced yesterday, alone. Hopefully you get to go home and get a little bit of rest. >>Yes. >>I'm sure that there's, there's never a dull moment. Never. Can't wait guys. Great to have you. >>Thank you. You guys, >>For our guests on Dave Volante, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching the queue. We are live day three of our coverage of Dell technologies world 2022, Dave and I will be right back with our final guest of the show.

(active upbeat music) >> Hello and welcome to theCUBE's presentation of Women in Tech global event, celebrating International Women's Day. I'm John furrier, host of theCUBE. Got a great guest, Cornelia Robinson, Who's the Senior Manager of the Global Inclusion and Outreach Programs at AWS, Amazon web services. Cornelia, welcome to this cube presentation. >> Thank you, so happy to be here, John. >> So you got a very interesting background, about involving in communities, you're in outreach and inclusion, which is awesome. International Women's Day is about global celebration. What's your role at AWS? Tell us more about what you do there and we'll get into some of the background and your experiences. >> All right. Thanks John. So, I lead a program that's called Inclusion and Outreach within AWS, specifically for our global data center community. So, AWS infrastructure is all over the world and we strive to make sure that in the places where we build and operate our cloud, that we're being good neighbors and also striving to be Earth's best employer. And so my role, it ultimately aligns both of those things into both inclusion and outreach. >> One of the things that we see with the cloud is it... There's always the talk, "Oh, democratization and..." If you see what cloud has done inside the global communities, it's been interesting. As regions expand, cloud computing has actually enabled kind of new things. You're seeing a lot more diversity inclusion, women events for instance, in Bahrain was one we saw a lot. Asia Pacific and all around the world you're seeing a lot more community because of the opportunities around the new applications and the new use cases is creating economic, but also empowering opportunities. And you've had a lot of experience in there and seeing some of these trends up close, what have you seen around this? Cause this is a new thing that cloud's enabling. This new revitalization inside these communities and areas. >> Yeah, cloud is definitely an enabler and it also enables people to scale, right? In ways that you wouldn't have been able to scale in the past. With AWS, it's like flip on a switch and all of a sudden you have access to so much compute power. It's actually incredible and it's exciting to be a part of this movement. >> How did you get started with AWS? >> I guess the way that I would describe it is tech kind of found me. I have an unusual background to be in tech. So, I graduated from law school and I was looking for a job and ended up in procurement. And then some years later, I got a call from AWS and I thought that it sounded like an interesting opportunity. I'd have an opportunity to build some new things and try some new things. And so, I said, "Hey, why not?" And that's how I ended up at AWS, starting out in our Northern Virginia office. And then I moved to Seattle for about five years. And now I'm back in the Northern Virginia area. >> So you're an Amazonian, true and true then. You've seen all the growth. But I think the thing about at Amazon is just that there's so much opportunities internally. A lot of people don't know that and I'd love to get your take on what it was like moving from procurement, which probably was very structured and good fit there, to Amazon Web Services, which was at that time just growing really fast and you built a global community program. So, kind of two worlds. Take us through that. >> Yeah, you're right. Procurement and community engagement are very different in many ways, but also very similar in many ways as well. With community engagement, we were completely starting from scratch with the idea of a structured community engagement program. Even though there was an element of community engagement that was happening in our infrastructure locations. So ultimately, the way that I ended up making that shift is that I was in an offsite, which is a team meeting, where people who have different functions come together and we were discussing opportunities that we had to just do a better job overall, because as you know, that's one thing that we're always looking at as Amazonians. It's how can we be better and show up better for our customers. We're always trying to start with our customers and work backwards to meet their needs. And so, one of the things that was identified in that discussion is community engagement. We had an opportunity to be even more engaged than we already were and to do it in a structured way. And so, I shot my hand up and said, "I like trying things, let me try this." And the rest is history. It's been about four years. >> And obviously you had to go through... (voice distortion noise drowns out other sounds) And all that procedure. Amazon is pretty open about ideas. Is that true? Is that a true thing? Is that what it's like there? People say that they'd like to try things and then if it works, they double down on it. Is that kind of how this went down? >> That's exactly how it went down, John. So, when I think about the process of working backwards, it's really something that never stops. And again, community engagement was all about working backwards from the needs of our customers. And in this instance, when I think about my customer, my customer is our community members. It's community members who live and work in our data center regions. And also our employees who are living and working and raising their families in those regions. >> What was the double down moment? When did you say, "Wow, this is working." When you developed this program. When were some of those moments, where you said, "Wow, this is actually working." And take us through some of those progressions. >> Some of the moments that really stand out to me are moments where I've been in the community and I say, "AWS." And someone says, "Oh, what's AWS?" And then you'll hear someone else chime in and explain, "Oh, AWS does all of these great things in the community." So, that actually happened. It was our very first AWS Girls' Tech Day, we'd scaled it from a small program into a global program. We went from having one in one year to having eight the next year around the world. And at this particular AWS Girls' Tech Day, someone did ask that question. It was a little girl. She was standing next to her sister. And when she asked me what AWS is, her sister looked at her and said, "You don't know what AWS is? "AWS does so much in our community "and AWS has this big space in my school." And she went on and on about how much she works with our employees and how excited she is about technology. And also those are those moments where you say, "You know what? This is working." And it's really working. >> That's awesome. What advice would you give people who are developing a community program? Because you're a pioneer, this has been a top priority for people now, in all companies and all groups, all tribes, as community is becoming a really important part of our fabric of society and business. People are sourcing information, they're sourcing relationships and jobs and in products. We are seeing a lot of organic community. What advice would you give folks who are developing a community program? >> There are few things. So, for me the biggest and most important thing is working backwards. So, start with your customer, who is your customer? It's really important to listen to them and to identify their needs. In this community engagement space, you have a lot of things being thrown at you all the time. You also have your own ideas and it's like, "Oh, it'd be really cool "if we did this thing." But is that really what the community needs? Is that really what the community wants? So, when I first started in this role, that was the most important thing and it continues to be the most important thing. I started picking up the phone, talking to people, going to a region, talking to folks who actually live and work in the community, understanding their perspectives, understanding their needs. There was a lot of discovery during that time. They were able to tell me things that I never would've even thought of. Never would've known, wouldn't have been able to consider because I wasn't a part of that community at the time. And so, that's the thing about becoming a community member, you got to be able to sit down and listen. And so, the principle of working backwards, it just applies so well in that instance. And so, that's the first thing. It's listening, understanding your customers, knowing who they are, and then trying to get as many perspectives as you can. And the next thing I would say is think big with your customers, right? And think big on behalf of your customers, but then from there, start somewhere. Because if you try to execute on the really big thing all at once, now, it may not go as well as you'd hoped it would. And you could actually diminish trust. So, we started working on just a couple of things based on customers needs. And as we were able to prove that they were successful and constantly get that feedback from customers saying, "Yeah, this works or that doesn't work." That's how we then eventually started to scale the program. >> Yeah. That trust angle, (voice distortion noise drowns out other sounds) because you look at trust. If you overplay your idea and it blows up, then no one's going to be motivated. Take little baby steps. I Love that insight. Great call out there. What about this Think Big Space you mentioned, and that other example about in the school, because I like this idea of having this Think Big Space that you pointed out. Is that just the place that you guys could provide? Or was that something that they did? The customer did or the community did? Can you share more about the Think Big Space? >> Yes. Our Think Big Spaces. So, the Think Big Space also started as a result of sitting down in a conference room with some teachers and administrators in a local school district, actually, here in the Northern Virginia area. And the teachers were talking about the fact that as teachers, there's a lot of emerging technology and it can be difficult to keep up with, what's next? What's current? What's next? What do we need? How do we help our students prepare for jobs that may not even exist right now? And so, it just seemed to align so well with our leadership principles within Amazon, learn and be curious, think big. And initially, they threw out the idea of a Tech Lab and we started working back and forth and thinking, "Well, how do we make this "a space where students would actually "come and learn and explore "and make things and get their hands dirty "and really be creative "and tie it back to technology "and just being really disruptive." And together, we came up with the idea of, "Hey, we got to teach students to think big." So, we started working on the first Think Big Space together. The school district actually hired an instructional lead and we worked with them to design curriculum and now there's a classroom, it's got eight Amazon's leadership principles on the walls and the students come in they are engineers for the day. And we've been able to scale that program globally to other locations. We've got Think Big Spaces in Ireland and Australia and India and of course in the US. And it's been really exciting to see how students get so excited when they're able to tinker and try new things. And they know that if they break something it's okay because we can come up with a way to fix it. And in the process of fixing it, they come up with something else. And we teach them about working backwards and it's just really fun. It's an exciting program to be a part of. And I've been excited just to see the growth and the way that our community members have benefited from it. >> It's really such an amazing program if you think about it because you're training builders and you're giving them a place to be disruptive, which is a natural part for young people to do and do it in a safe environment where they can build something and have fun doing it. It's amazing. >> That's right. So congratulations, that's a great program. Let me get into the theme here, on this International Women's Day around breaking the bias it's one of the core principles of this year's event globally and for International Women's Day, break the bias is the theme. Where do you see bias? and what would you like to see change? And what does change look like? >> Yeah. So, I would say, with the experience of setting up in communities, activities, and also collaborating with schools, what we see is that bias starts early. This is not something that people show up for work and all of a sudden there's all of this bias. There's bias in the way that young people and students are socialized. And so, you start to see things at an early age where girls may be encouraged to do things that are different. So, maybe girls are not encouraged to take on leadership roles or they're getting pushed into the arts. Of course, there's nothing wrong with arts, but we should be encouraging people to pursue certain areas based on interest and not on gender. And if we want to really break bias, we've got to think about the seeds that we plant. So, we've got to be really careful about what we say, how we nurture. It's about, "You can do this. "Yes. Try it, see." Not, "Oh, no, you shouldn't do this "because you're a girl." No, you're a girl and you belong here. You should be here. We need more people like you, you're going to do really big things. Like you've got to start telling students this at an early age, because all it takes, sometimes is one person to tell a student that they can't do something. And then if they believe them, then it can change their whole trajectory. And so, for me, when it comes to breaking the bias, it starts really early. It starts really, really early. >> Yeah. And I think... (voice distortion noise drowns out other sounds) Even like the Think Big program you mentioned, which sounds so exciting, it's just providing access. And I think having an open collaboration is key, but role models matter too. You want to see people in there too. I think this comes up a lot. what's your view on that? Because when you see people in positions, they're inspiring. And I think that also comes up a lot in these conversations. >> Yeah, definitely. When you see people in positions and you see people who look like you, you see yourself in that person and you say, "Hey, maybe if they can do it, "I can do it too." And so, it is important for us to have great strong role models who can show up and who can be there for students. That's one of the things that we try to do with our programming. So, as we develop programs like the Think Big Space, it's not just, "Okay, well we have a Think Big Space "and that's the end." It's we have a Think Big Space and our employees are coming into the Think Big Space. They're engaging with the student, they're volunteering, they're taking on causes in their community. And it provides that natural mentorship and ability for students to just see themselves. Because again, if you don't see yourself reflected, then you also may be receiving a message that says, "Okay. Well, that's not for me." >> Yeah. I was talking with a leader at AWS and she's in space area and we were talking about how the younger generation are nerd native, she called it. And they're born with inherent tech now. So, unlike when we were born, we had to kind of just found us, or we stumbled into it, or we got addicted somehow to tech. Now they got the tech around them. And I think this is an interesting new dynamic that could play well for the bias issue. And would love to get your reaction to that, as the generations come in, they're seeing all the world problems, they're seeing the digital transformation it's native to them. So, I wonder what your thoughts are. How we could be better at, I don't know, shaping the paths, pathways, multiple pathways. Seems to be many opportunities. So, if people are nerd native, how do we do that? So, we had a great riff on that. I'd love to get your reaction on that. >> Yeah. I think that we have to make sure that we are fostering this idea of playing outside of the box instead of in the box. It used to be with really traditional careers. If I want to be a doctor, I go to medical school, right. If I want to be a lawyer, I go to law school. If I want to work in tech, what do I do? Well, here's the thing, with tech, you're engaging in tech so much. I remember that when my nephew and nieces were little, before they could even read, they could do things on my phone. Like, I would get my phone and all of a sudden I had all of these game apps. How did they know how to do that? It's like you can't even read a word, but you can put all of these apps on my phone. They're engaging with technology. And so, how do we take that and nurture it and say, "Hey, just embrace it." Just put more technology in front of students, let them break things, let them fix things. I remember being a part of a panel with a woman who is an engineer and she said she became an engineer because she liked to break things though. So, she'd break her computer and she would get in trouble for it. She would be told, "Hey, figure out "how to put it back together." And so, if we can create more environments and encourage students that it's not about perfection, let's be inventive here. Let's try new things. Let's think outside the box. Think big, go find a solution. Go find an issue and work backwards from the issue that someone is having to come up with a solution that works and then get feedback. That process, that can start early. It doesn't have to be, once you're in a full fledged career, you can start that at any age. >> Cornelia, great insights. (voice distortion noise drowns out other sounds) My final question, what's new for you? What are you going to be up to? What's next? What are you going to break next? What are you going to do? >> So, what's new for me. I now lead Inclusion and Outreach within AWS for our data center community. And so, I'm back really to square one when it comes to doing a lot of listening, trying to understand. Understanding what the things are that are pain points within and outside of the organization. And I'll be working with employees and community members to continue iterating, and to continue solving problems and working together on those solutions. And so, I'm really excited about it. Hopefully, at some point we'll be able to come back together and I'll be able to give you some insight and how that's going. >> Well, we certainly will. We appreciate your time and thanks for joining our cube community. We really appreciate it. You're now cube alumni. Our door is always open here at theCUBE, and we want to hear more of those stories. We're going to do a lot more coverage, a lot more sharing of stories, certainly in this area, that's important and we're committed to it. Thank you for your time today and sharing the insights and your experience on the Women in Tech celebration of International Women's Day. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Happy International Women's Day. >> Okay. This is theCUBE. I'm John Furrie, your host. Thanks for watching the presentation of Women in Tech global event, celebrating International Women's Day. This is the season one episode one, of our ongoing program that we're going to have here on theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (soft instrumental music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello and welcome to today's session, theCUBE's presentation of the AWS Startup Showcase, New Breakthroughs in DevOps, Data Analytics, Cloud Management Tools, featuring Ascend.io for the data and analytics track. I'm your host, John Furrier with theCUBE. Today, we're proud joined by Sean Knapp, CEO and founder of Ascend.io and Jason Robinson who's the VP of Data Science and Engineering at Steady. Guys, thanks for coming on and congratulations, Sean, for the continued success, loves our cube conversation and Jason, nice to meet you. >> Great to meet you. >> Thanks for having us. >> So, the session today is really kind of looking at automating analytics workloads, right? So, and Steady as a customer. Sean, talk about the relationship with the customer Steady. What's the main product, what's the core relationship? >> Yeah, it's a really great question. when we work with a lot of companies like Steady we're working hand in hand with their data engineering teams, to help them onboard onto the Ascend platform, build these really powerful data pipelines, fueling their analytics and other workloads, and really helping to ensure that they can be successful at getting more leverage and building faster than ever before. So we tend to partner really closely with each other's teams and really think of them even as extensions of each other's own teams. I watch in slack oftentimes and our teams just go back and forth. And it's like, as if we were all just part of the same company. >> It's a really exciting time, Jason, great to have you on as a person cutting your teeth into this kind of what I call next gen data as intellectual property. Sean and I chat on theCUBE conversation previous to this event where every company is a data company, right? And we've heard that cliche. >> Right. >> But it's true, right? It's going to, it's getting more powerful with the edge. You seeing more diverse data, faster data, small, big, large, medium, all kinds of different aspects and patterns. And it's becoming a workflow kind of intellectual property paradigm for companies, not so much. >> That's right. >> Just the tech it's the database is you can, it's the data itself, data in flight, it's moving around, it's got value. What's your take-- >> Absolutely. >> On this trend? >> Basically, Steady helps our members and we have a community of members earn more income. So we want to help them steady their financial lives. And that's all based on data, so we have a web app, you could go to the iOS Store, you could go to the Google Play Store, you can download the app. And we have a large number of members, 3 million plus, who are actively using this. And we also have a very exciting new product called income passport. And this helps 1099 and mixed wage earners verify their income, which is very important for different government benefits. And then third, we help people with emergency cash grants as well as awards. So all of that is built on a bedrock of data, so if you're using our apps, it's all data powered. So what you were mentioning earlier from pipelines that are running it real time to yeah, anything, that's a kind of a small data aggregation, we do everything from small to real-time and large. >> You guys are like a multiple sided marketplace here, you've got it, you're a FinTech app, as well as the future of work and with virtual space-- >> That's right. >> Happening now, this is becoming, actually encapsulates kind of the critical problems that people trying to solve right now, you've got multiple stakeholders. >> That's right. >> In the data. >> Yes, we absolutely do. So we have our members, but we also, within the company, we have product, we have strategy, we have a growth team, we have operations. So data engineering and data science also work with a data analytics organization. So at Steady we're very much a data company. And we have a data organization led by our chief data officer and we have data engineering and data science, which are my teams, but also that business insights and analytics. So a lot of what we're building on the data engineering side is powering those insights and analytics that the business stakeholders use every day to run the organization. >> Sean, I want to get your thoughts on this because we heard from Emily Freeman in the keynote about how this revolution in DevOps or for premiering her talk around how, it's not just one persona anymore, I'm a release engineer, I'm this kind of engineer, you're seeing now all engineering, all developers are developers. You have some specialty, but for the most part, the team makeups are changing. We touched on this in our cube conversation. The journey of data is not just the data people, the data folks. It's like there's, they're developers too. So the confluence of data science, data management, developing, is changing the team and cultural makeup of companies. Could you share your thoughts on this dynamic and how it impacts customers? >> Absolutely, I think the, we're finding a similar trend to what we saw a number of years ago, when we talked about how software was eating the world and every company was now becoming a software company. And as a result, we saw this proliferation and expansion of what the software roles look like and thought of a company pulled through this entire new era of DevOps. We were finding that same pattern now emerging around data as not only is every company a software company, every company is a data company and data really is that field, that oil that fuels the business and in doing so, we're finding that as Jason describes it's pervasive across the team, it is no longer just one team that is creating some insights and reports around operational analytics, or maybe a team over here doing data science or machine learning. It is expensive. And I think the really interesting challenges that start to come with this too, are so many data teams are so over capacity. We did a recent study that highlighted that 96% of data teams are at, or over capacity, only 4% had spare capacity. But as a result, the net is being cast even wider to pull in people from even broader and more adjacent domains to all participate in the data future of their organization. >> Yeah, and I think I'd love to get your guys react to this conversation with Andy Jassy, who's now the CEO of Amazon, but when he was the CEO of AWS last year, I talked with him about how the old guard and new guard are thinking around team formations. Obviously team capacity is growing and challenged when you've got the right formula. So that's one thing, right? But what if you don't have the right formula? If you're in the skills gap, problem, or team formation side of it, where you maybe there was two years ago where the mandate came down? Well, we got to build a data team even in two years, if you're not inquisitive. And this is what Andy and I were talking about is the thinking and the mindset of that mission and being open to discovering and understanding the changes, because if you were deciding what your team was two, three years ago, that might have changed a lot. So team capacity, Sean, to your point, if you got it right, and that's a challenge in and of itself, but what if you don't have it, right? What do you guys think about this? >> Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Basically trying to see, look and gaze into the crystal ball and see what's going to happen in a year or two years, even six months is quite difficult. And if you don't have it right, you do spend a lot of time because of the technical debt that you've amassed. And we certainly spend quite a bit of time with technical debt for things we wanted to build. So, deconvolving that, getting those ETLs to a runnable state, getting performance there, that's what we spend a bit of time on. And yeah, it's something that it's really part of the package. >> What do you guys see as the big challenge on teams? The scaling challenge okay. Formation is one thing, Sean, but like, okay, getting it right, getting it formed properly and then scaling it, what are the big things you're seeing? >> One of the, I think the overarching management themes in general, it is the highest out by the highest performing teams are those where the individual with the context and the idea is able to execute as far and as fast and as efficiently as possible, and removing a lot of those encumbrances and put it a slightly different way. If DevOps was all basically boiled down to, how do we help more people write more software faster and safely data ops would be very similarly, how do we enable more people to do more things with data faster and safely? And to do that, I think the era of these massive multi-year efforts around data are gone and hopefully in the not too distant future, even these multi-quarter efforts around data are gone and we get into a much more agile, nimble methodology where smaller initiatives and smaller efforts are possible by more diverse skillsets across the business. And really what we should be doing is leveraging technology and automation to ensure that people are able to be productive and efficient and that we can trust our data and that systems are automated. And these are problems that technology is good at. And so in many ways, how in the early days Amazon would described as getting people out of the muck of DevOps. I think we're going to do the same thing around getting people out of the muck of the data and get them really focused on the higher level aspects. >> Yeah, we're going to get into that complexity, heavy lifting side muck, and then the heavy lifting taking away from the customers. But I want to go back to real quick with Jason while we're on this topic. Jason, I was just curious, how much has your team grown in the recent year and how much could've, should've grown, what's the status and how has Ascend helped you guys? What's the dynamic there? ' Cause that's their value proposition. So, take us through that. >> Absolutely, so, since the beginning of the year data engineering has doubled. So, we're a lean team, we certainly use the agile mindset and methodologies, but we have gone from, yeah, we've essentially doubled. So a lot of that is there's just so much to do and the capacity problem is certainly there. So we also spend a lot of time figuring out exactly what the right tooling is. And I was mentioning the technical debt. So you have those, there's the big O notation of whatever that involves technical debt. And when you're building new things, you're fixing old things. And then you're trying to maintain everything. That scaling starts to hit hard. So even if we continue to double, I mean, we could easily add more data engineers. And a lot of that is, I mean, you know about the hiring cycles, like, a lot of of great talent, but it's difficult to make all of those hires. So, we do spend quite a bit of time thinking about exactly what tools data engineering is using day-to-day. And what I mentioned, were technologies on the streaming side all the way to like the small batch things, but, like something that starts as a small batch getting grow and grow and grow and take, say 15 hours, it's possible, I've seen it. But, and getting that back down and managing that complexity while not overburdening people who probably don't want to spend all their waking hours building ETLs, maintaining ETL, putting in monitoring, putting in alerting, that I think is quite a challenge. >> It's so funny because you mentioned 18 hours, you got to kind of being, you didn't roll your eyes, but you almost did, but this is, but people want it yesterday, they want real time, so there's a lot of demand-- >> Yes. >> On the minds of the business outcome side of it. So, I got to ask you, because this comes up a lot with technical debt, and now we're starting to see that come into the data conversation. And so I always curious, is there a different kind of technical debt with data? Because again, data is like software, but it's a little bit of more elusive in the sense it's always changing. So is there, what kind of technical debt do you see in the data side that's different than say software side? >> Absolutely, now that's a great question. So a lot of thinking about your data and structuring your data and how you want to use that data going into a particular project might be different from what happens after stakeholders have a new considerations and new products and new items that need to be built. So thinking about how that, let's say you have a document store, or you have something that you thought was going to be nice and structured, how that can evolve and support those particular products can essentially, unless you take the time and go through and say, well, let's architect it perfectly so that we can handle that. You're going to make trade-offs and choices, and essentially that debt builds up. So you start cutting corners, you start changing your normalization. You start essentially taking those implicit schema that then tend to build into big things, big implicit schema. And then of course, with implicit schema, you're going to have a lot of null values, you're going to have a lot of items to deal with. So, how do you deal with that? And then you also have the opportunity to create keys and values and oops, do we take out those keys that were slightly misspelled? So, I could go on for hours, but basically the technical debt certainly is there with on data. I see a lot of this as just a spectrum of technical debt, because it's all trade-offs that you made to build a product, and the efficiency has start to hit you. So, the 15 hour ETL, I was mentioning, basically you start with something and you were building things for stakeholders and essentially you have so much complex logic within that. So for the transforms that you're doing from if you're thinking of the bronze, silver, gold, kind of a framework, going from that bronze to a silver, you may have a massive number of transformations or just a few, just to lightly dust it. But you could also go to gold with many more transformations and managing that, managing the complexity, managing what you're spending for servers day after day after day. That's another real challenge of that technical debt stuff. >> That's a great lead into my next question, for Sean, this is the disparate system complexity, technical debt and software was always kind of the belief was, oh yeah, I'll take some technical debt on and work it off once I get visibility and say, unit economics or some sort of platform or tool feature, and then you work it off as fast as possible. I was, this becomes the art and science of technical debt. Jason, what you're saying is that this can be unwieldy pretty quickly. You got state and you got a lot of different inter moving parts. This is a huge issue, Sean, this is where it's, technical debt in the data world is much different architecturally. If you don't get it right, this is a huge, huge issue. Could you aluminate why that is and what you guys are doing to help unify and change some of those conditions? >> Yeah, absolutely. When we think about technical debt and I'll keep drawing some parallels between DevOps and data ops, 'cause I think there's a tremendous number of similarities in these worlds. We used to always have the saying that "Your tech debt grows manually across microservices, "but exponentially within services." And so you want that right level of architecture and composibility if you will, of your systems where you can deploy changes, you can test, you can have high degrees of competence and the roll-outs. And I think the interesting part in the data side, as Jason highlighted, the big O-notation for tech debt in the data ecosystem, is still fairly exponential or polynomial in nature. As right now, we don't have great decomposition of the components. We have different systems. We have a streaming system, we have a databases, we have documents, doors and so on, but how the whole data pipeline data engineering part works generally tends to be pretty monolithic in nature. You take your whole data pipeline and you deploy the whole thing and you basically just cross your fingers, and hopefully it's not 15 hours, but if it is 15 hours, you go to sleep, you wake up the next morning, grab a coffee and then maybe it worked. And that iteration cycle is really slow. And so when we think about how we can improve these things, right? This is combinations of intelligent systems that do instantaneous schema detection, and validation, excuse me, it's combinations of things that do instantaneous schema detection and validation. It's things like automated lineage and dependency tracking. So you know that when you deploy code, what piece of data it affects, it's things like automated testing on individual core parts of your data pipelines to validate that you're getting the expected output that you need. So it's pulling a lot of these same DevOps style principles into the data world, which is really designed to going back to how do you help more people build more things faster and safely really rapid iterations for rapid feedback. So you know if there's breaks in the system much earlier on. >> Well, I think Sean, you're onto something really big there. And I think this is something that's emerging pretty quickly in the cloud scale that I called, 2.0, whatever, what version we're in, is the systems thinking mindset. 'Cause you mentioned the model that that was essentially a silo or subsystem. It was cohesive in it's own way, but now it's been monolithic. Now you have a broken down set of decomposed sets of data pieces that have to work together. So Jason, this is the big challenge that everyone, not really people are talking about, I think most these guys are, and you're using them. What are you unifying? Because this is a systems operating systems thinking, this is not like a database problem. It's a systems problem applied to data where databases are just pieces of it, what's your thoughts? >> That's absolutely right. And I would, so Sean touched on composibility of ETL and thinking about reusable components, thinking about pieces that all fit together, because as you're building something as complex as some of these ETS are, we do think about the platform itself and how that lends to the overarching output. So one thing, being able to actually see the different components of an ETL and blend those in and you as the dry principal, don't repeat yourself. So you essentially are able to take pieces that one person built, maybe John builds a couple of our connectors coming in, Sean also has a bunch of transforms and I just want this stuff out, so I can use a lot of what you guys have already built. I think that's key, because a lot of engineering and data engineering is about managing complexity. So taking that complexity and essentially getting it out fast and getting out error free, is where we're going with all of the data products we're building. >> What are some of the complexity that you guys have that you're dealing with? Can you be specific and share what these guys are doing to solve that problem for you? That's, this is a big problem everyone's having, I'm seeing that all over the place. >> Absolutely, so I could start at a couple of places. So I don't know if you guys are on the three Vs, four Vs or five Vs, but we have all of those. And if you go to that five, four or five V model, there is the veracity piece, which you have to ask yourself, is it true? Is it accurate when? So change happens throughout the pipeline, change can come from web hooks, change can come from users. You have to make sure that you're managing that complexity and what we we're building, I mentioned that we are paying down a lot of tech debt, but we're also building new products. And one pretty challenging, quite challenging ETL that we're building is something going from a document store to an analytical application. So in that document store, we talked about flexible schema. Basically, you don't really know exactly what you're going to get day to day, and you need to be able to manage that change through the whole process in a way that the ultimate business users find value. So, that's one of the key applications that we're using right now. And that's one that the team at Ascend and my team are working hand in hand going through a lot of those challenges. And it's, I also watch the slack just as Sean does, and it's a very active discussion board. So it is essentially like they're just partnering together. It's fabulous, but yeah-- >> And you're seeing kind of a value on this too, I mean, in terms of output what's the business results? >> Yes, absolutely. So essentially this is all, so yes, the fifth V value. So, getting to that value is essentially, there were a few pieces of the, to the value. So there's some data products that we're building within that product and their data science, data analytics based products that essentially do things with the data that help the user. There's also the question of exactly the usage and those kinds of metrics that people in ops want to understand as well as our growth team. So we have internal and external stakeholders for that. >> Jason, this is a great use case, a great customer, Sean, you guys are automating. For the folks watching, who were seeing their peer living the dream here and the data journey, as we say, things are happening. What's the message to customers that you guys want to send because you guys are really cutting your teeth into a whole another level of data engineering, data platform. That's really about the systems view and about cloud. What's the pitch, Sean? What should people know about the company? >> Absolutely, yeah, well, so one, I'd say even before the pitch, I would encourage people to not accept the status quo. And in particular, in data engineering today, the status quo is an incredibly high degree of pain and discomfort. And I think the important part of why Ascend exists and why we're so helpful for our customers, there is a much more automated future of how we build data products, how we optimize those and how we can get a larger cohort of builders into the data ecosystem. And that helps us get out of the muck as we talked about before and put really advanced technology to work for more people inside of our companies to build these data products, leveraging the latest and greatest technologies to drive increased business value faster. >> Jason, what's your assessment of these guys, as people are watching might say, hey, you know what, I'm going to contact them, I need this. How would you talk about Ascend into your peers? >> Absolutely, so I think just thinking about the whole process has been a great partnership. We started with a POC, I think Ascend likes to start with three use cases, I think we came out with four and we went through the ones that we really cared about and really wanted to bring value to the company with. So we have roadmaps for some, as we're paying down technical debt and transitioning, others we can go directly to. And I think that thinking about just like you're saying, John, that systems view of everything you're building, where that makes sense, you can actually take a lot of that complexity and encapsulate it in a way that you can essentially manage it all in that platform. So the Ascend platform has the composibility piece that we touched on. It also, not only can you compose it, but you can drill into it. And my team is super talented and is going to drill into it. So basically loves to open up each of those data flows each of the components therein and has the control there with the combination of Spark Sequel, PI Spark SQL Scala and so on. And I think that the variety of connections is also quite helpful. So thinking about the dry principle from a systems perspective is extremely useful because it's dry, you often get that in a code review, right? I think you can be a little bit more dry here. >> Yeah. >> But you can really do that in the way that you're composing your systems as well. >> That's a great, great point. One quick thing for the folks that they're watching that are trying to figure this out, and a lot of architecture is going on. A lot of people are looking at different solutions. What things have you learned that you could give them a tip like to avoid like maybe some scar tissue or tips of the trade, where you can say, hey, this way, be careful, what's some of the learnings? Could you give a few pointers to folks out there, if they're kicking tires on the direction, what's the wrong direction? What's the right direction look like? >> Absolutely, I think that, I think it through, and I don't know how much time we have that, that feels like a few days conversation as far as ways to go wrong. But absolutely, I think that thinking through exactly where want to be is the key. Otherwise it's kind of like when you're writing a ticket on Jarrah, if you don't have clear success criteria, if you don't know where you going to go, then you'll end up somewhere building something and it might work. But if you think through your exact destination that you want to be at, that will drive a lot of the decisions as you think backwards to where you started. And also I think that, so Sean also mentioned challenging the status quo. I think that you really have to be ready to challenge the status quo at every step of that journey. So if you start with some particular service that you had and its legacy, if it's not essentially performing what you need, then it's okay to just take a step back and say, well, maybe that's not the one. So I think that thinking through the system, just like you were saying, John, and also I think that having a visual representation of where you want to go is critical. So hopefully that encapsulates a lot of it, but yes, the destination is key. >> Yeah, and having an engineering platform that also unifies the multiple components and it's agile. >> That's right. >> It gets you out of the muck and on the last day and differentiate heavy lifting is a cloud plan. >> Absolutely. >> Sean, wrap it up for us here. What's the bumper sticker for your vision, share your founding principles of the company. >> Absolutely, for us, we started the company as a former in recovery and CTO. The last company I founded, we had nearly 60 people on our data team alone and had invested tremendous amounts of effort over the course of eight years. And one of the things that I've learned is that over time innovation comes just as much from deciding what you're no longer going to do as what you're going to do. And focusing heavily around, how do you get out of that muck? How do you continue to climb up that technology stack? Is incredibly important. And so really we are excited to be a part of it and taking the industry is continuing to climb higher and higher level. We're building more and more advanced levels of automation and what we call our data awareness into the automated engine of the Ascend platform that takes us across the entire data ecosystem, connecting and automating all data movement. And so we have a very exciting vision for this fabric that's emerging over time. >> Awesome, Sean, thank you so much for that insight, Jason, thanks for coming on customer of Ascend.io. >> Thank you. >> I appreciate it, gentlemen, thank you. This is the track on automating analytic workloads. We here at the end of us showcase, startup showcase, the hottest companies here at Ascend.io, I'm John Furrier, with theCUBE, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Splunk.conf19, brought to you by Splunk. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here inside for Splunk.conf, their 10th-year conference. We've been here seven years. I'm John Furrier, the host. Our next guest is Sherrie Caltagirone, founder and executive director of the Global Emancipation Network, a cutting-edge company and organization connecting different groups together to fight that battle combating human trafficking with the power of data analytics. We're in a digital world. Sherrie, thanks for coming in. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> So love your mission. This is really close to my heart in terms of what you're doing because with digital technologies, there's a unification theme here at Splunk, unifying data sets, you hear on the keynotes. You guys got a shout-out on the keynote, congratulations. >> Sherrie: We did, thank you. >> So unifying data can help fight cybersecurity, fight the bad guys, but also there's other areas where unification comes in. This is what you're doing. Take a minute to explain the Global Emancipation Network. >> Yeah, thank you. So what we do is we are a data analytics and intelligence nonprofit, dedicated to countering all forms of human trafficking, whether it's labor trafficking, sex trafficking, or any of the sub types, men, women, and children all over the world. So when you think about that, what that really means is that we interact with thousands of stakeholders across law enforcement, governments, nonprofits, academia, and then private sector as well. And all of those essentially act as data silos for human trafficking data. And when you think about that as trafficking as a data problem or you tackle it as a data problem, what that really means is that you have to have a technology and data-led solution in order to solve the problem. So that's really our mission here is to bring together all of those stakeholders, give them easy access to tools that can help improve their counter posture. >> And where are you guys based and how big is the organization? What's the status? Give a quick plug for where you guys are at and what the current focus is. >> Yeah, perfect, so I am based in San Luis Obispo, California. We have just started a brand new trafficking investigations hub out at Cal Poly there. They're a fantastic organization whose motto is learn by doing, and so we are taking the trafficking problem and the tangential other issues, so like we mentioned, cyber crime, wildlife trafficking, drugs trafficking, all of this sort of has a criminal convergence around it and applying technology, and particularly Splunk, to that. >> Yeah, and I just want to make a note 'cause I think it's important to mention. Cal Poly's doing some cutting-edge work. Alison Robinson, Bill Britton, who runs the program over there, they got a great organization. They're doing a lot of data-oriented from media analysis, data, big focus there. Cal Poly quite a big organization. >> They are, and they're doing some wonderful things. AWS just started an innovation hub called the DX Hub there that we are a part of, really trying to tackle these really meaty problems here that are very data-centric and technology-centric. And Cal Poly's the best place to do that. >> Great, let's get into some of the details. One of the things around the news, obviously seeing Mark Zuckerberg doing the tour, Capitol Hill, DC, Georgetown, free speech, data. Facebook has been kind of blamed for breaking democracy. At the same time, it's a platform. They don't consider themselves as an editorial outlet. My personal opinion, they are, but they hide behind that platform. So bad things have happened, good things can happen. So you're seeing technology kind of being pigeonholed as bad. Tech for bad, there's also a tech for good. Pat Gelsinger, the CEO of VMware, publicly said technology's neutral. We humans can shape it. So you guys are looking at it from shaping it for good. How are you doing it? What are some of the things that are going on technically from a business standpoint that is shaping and unifying the data? >> Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely certain that technology has facilitated human trafficking and other ills throughout the world. It's a way that people bring their product, in this case, sadly, human beings, to the market to reach buyers, right? And technology absolutely facilitates that. But, as you mentioned, we can use that against them. So actually here at Conf we are bringing together for a first time the partnership that we did with Splunk for Good, Accenture, and Global Emancipation Network to help automatically classify and score risky businesses, content, ads, and individuals there to help not only with mitigating risk and liability for the private sector, whether it's social media giants or if it's transportation, hospitality, you name it, but also help ease the burden of content moderators. And that's the other side of it. So when you live in this space day in and day out, you really exact a mental toll here. It's really damaging to the individual who sits and reads this material and views photos over and over again. So using technology is a way to automate some of those investigations, and the identification of that content could be helpful in a variety of ways. >> In a way, it's a whole other adversary formula to try to identify. One of the things that Splunk, as we've been here at Splunk Conference, they've been about data from day one. A lot of data and then grew from there, and they have this platform. It's a data problem, and so one of the things that we're seeing here is diverse data, getting at more data makes AI smarter, makes things smarter. But that's hard. Diverse data might be in different data sets or silos, different groups. Sharing data's important, so getting that diverse data, how difficult is it for you guys? Because the bad guys can hide. They're hiding in from Craigslist to social platforms. You name it, they're everywhere. How do you get the data? What's the cutting-edge ingestion? Where are the shadows? Where are the blind spots? How do you guys look at that? Because it's only getting bigger. >> Absolutely, so we do it through a variety of different ways. We absolutely see gathering and aggregating and machining data the most central thing to what we do at Global Emancipation Network. So we have a coalition, really, of organizations that we host their scrapers and crawlers on and we run it through our ingestion pipeline. And we are partnered with Microsoft and AWS to store that data, but everything goes through Splunk as well. So what is that data, really? It's data on the open web, it's on the deep web. We have partners as well who look at the dark web, too, so Recorded Future, who's here at Conf, DeepL as well. So there's lots of different things on that. Now, honestly, the data that's available on the internet is easy for us to get to. It's easy enough to create a scraper and crawler, to even create an authenticated scraper behind a paywall, right? The harder thing is those privately held data sets that are in all of those silos that are in a million different data formats with all kinds of different fields and whatnot. So that is where it's a little bit more of a manual lift. We're always looking at new technologies to machine PDFs and that sort of thing as well. >> One of the things that I love about this business we're on, the wave we're on, we're in a digital media business, is that we're in pursuit of the truth. Trust, truth is a big part of what we do. We talk to people, get the data. You guys are doing something really compelling. You're classifying evil. Okay, this is a topic of your talk track here. Classifying evil, combating human trafficking with the power of data analytics. This is actually super important. Could you share why, for people that aren't following inside the ropes of this problem, why is it such a big problem to classify evil? Why isn't it so easy to do? What's the big story? What should people know about this challenge? >> Yeah, well, human trafficking is actually the second-most profitable crime in the world. It's the fastest-growing crime. So our best estimates are that there's somewhere between 20 million and 45 million people currently enslaved around the world. That's a population the size of Spain. That's nothing that an individual, or even a small army of investigators can handle. And when you think about the content that each of those produce or the traffickers are producing in order to advertise the services of those, it's way beyond the ability of any one organization or even, like I said, an army of them, to manage. And so what we need to do then is to be able to find the signal in the noise here. And there is a lot of noise. Even if you're looking at sex trafficking, particularly, there's consensual sex work or there's other things that are a little bit more in that arena, but we want to find that that is actually engaging in human trafficking. The talk that you mentioned that we're doing is actually a fantastic use case. This is what we did with Splunk for Good and Accenture. We were actually looking at doing a deep dive into the illicit massage industry in the US, and there are likely over 10,000 illicit massage businesses in the US. And those businesses, massages and spas, that are actually just a front for being a brothel, essentially. And it generates $2 billion a year. We're talking about a major industry here, and in that is a very large component of human trafficking. There's a very clear pipeline between Korea, China, down to New York and then being placed there. So what we ended up needing to do then, and again, we were going across data silos here, looking at state-owned data, whether it was license applications, arrest filings, legal cases, that sort of thing, down into the textual advertisements, so doing NLP work with weighted lexicons and really assigning a risk score to individual massage businesses to massage therapist business owners and then, again, to that content. So looking, again, how can we create a classifier to identify evil? >> It's interesting, I think about when you're talking about this is a business. This is a business model, this business continuity. There's a supply chain. This is a bona fide, underground, or overt business process. >> Yeah, absolutely, and you're right on that too that it is actually overt because at this point, traffickers actually operate with impunity for the most part. So actually framing it that way, as a market economy, whether it's shadowy and a little bit more in the black market or completely out in the open, it really helps us frame our identification, how we can manage disruptions, who need to be the stakeholders at the table for us in order to have a wider impact rather than just whack-a-mole. >> I was just talking with Sonia, one of our producers, around inclusiveness and this is so obviously a human passion issue. Why don't we just solve it? I mean, why doesn't someone like the elite class or world organization, just Davos, and people just say they're staring at this problem. Why don't they just say, "Hey, this is evil. "Let's just get rid of it." What's the-- >> Well, we're working on it, John, but the good thing is, and you're absolutely right, that there are a number of organizations who are actually working on it. So not just us, there's some other amazing nonprofits. But the tech sector's actually starting to come to the table as well, whether it's Splunk, it's Microsoft, it's AWS, it's Intel, IBM, Accenture. People are really waking up to how damaging this actually is, the impact that it has on GDP, the way that we're particularly needing to protect vulnerable populations, LGBTQ youth, children in foster care, indigenous populations, refugees, conflict zones. So you're absolutely right. I think, given the right tools and technology, and the awareness that needs to happen on the global stage, we will be able to significantly shrink this problem. >> It's classic arbitrage. If I'm a bad guy, you take advantage of the systematic problems of what's in place, so the current situation. Sounds like siloed groups somewhat funded, not mega-funded. This group over here, disconnect between communications. So you guys are, from what I could tell, pulling everyone together to kind of create a control plane of data to share information to kind of get a more holistic view of everything. >> Yeah, that's exactly it. Trying to do it at scale, at that. So I mentioned that at first we were looking at the illicit massage sector. We're moving over to the social media to look again at the recruitment side and content. And the financial sector is really the common thread that runs through all of it. So being able to identify, taking it back to a general use case here from cyber security, just indicators as well, indicators of compromise, but in our case, these are just words and lexicons, dollar values, things like that, down to behavioral analytics and patterns of behavior, whether people are moving, operating as call centers, network-like behavior, things that are really indicative of trafficking. And making sure that all of those silos understand that, are sharing the data they can, that's not overly sensitive, and making sure that we work together. >> Sherrie, you mentioned AWS. Teresa Carlson, I know she's super passionate about this. She's a leader. Cal Poly, we mentioned that. Splunk, you mentioned, how is Splunk involved? Are they the core technology behind this? Are they powering the-- >> They are, yeah, Splunk was actually with us from day one. We sat at a meeting, actually, at Microsoft and we were really just white boarding. What does this look like? How can we bring Splunk to bear on this problem? And so Splunk for Good, we're part of their pledge, the $10 million pledge over 10 years, and it's been amazing. So after we ingest all of our data, no matter what the data source is, whatever it looks like, and we deal with the ugliest and most unstructured data ever, and Splunk is really the only tool that we looked at that was able to deal with that. So everything goes through Splunk. From there, we're doing a series of external API calls that can really help us enrich that data, add correlations, whether it's spatial data, network analysis, cryptocurrency analysis, public records look-ups, a variety of things. But Splunk is at the heart. >> So I got to ask you, honestly, as this new architecture comes into play for attacking this big problem that you guys are doing, as someone who's not involved in that area, I get wow, spooked out by that. I'm like, "Wow, this is really bad." How can people help? What can people do either in their daily lives, whether it's how they handle their data, observations, donations, involvement? How do people get involved? What do you guys see as some areas that could be collaborating with? What do you guys need? How do people get involved? >> Yeah, one that's big for me is I would love to be able to sit in an interview like this, or go about my daily life, and know that what I am wearing or the things that I'm interacting with, my phone, my computer, weren't built from the hands of slave labor. And at this point, I really can't. So one thing that everybody can do is demand of the people that they are purchasing from that they're doing so in a socially viable and responsible way. So looking at supply chain management as well, and auditing specifically for human trafficking. We have sort of the certified, fair-trade certified organic seals. We need something like that for human trafficking. And that's something that we, the people, can demand. >> I think you're on the right track with that. I see a big business model wave where consumer purchasing power can be shifted to people who make the investments in those areas. So I think it's a big opportunity. It's kind of a new e-commerce, data-driven, social-impact-oriented economy. >> Yep, and you can see more and more, investment firms are becoming more interested in making socially responsible investments. And we just heard Splunk announce their $100 million social innovation fund as well. And I'm sure that human trafficking is going to be part of that awareness. >> Well, I'll tell you one of the things that's inspirational to me personally is that you're starting to see power and money come into helping these causes. My friend, Scott Tierney, just started a venture capital firm called Valo Ventures in Palo Alto. And they're for-profit, social impact investors. So they see a business model shift where people are getting behind these new things. I think your work is awesome, thank you. >> Yeah, thank you so much, I appreciate it. >> Thanks for coming on. Congratulations on the shout-out on the keynote. Appreciate it. The Global Emancipation Network, check them out. They're in San Luis Obispo, California. Get involved. This is theCUBE with bringing you the signal from the noise here at .conf. I'm John Furrier, back with more after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the cubes Live coverage Of'em World 2019 in San Francisco, California We're here at Mosconi North Lobby. Two sets. Jumper of my Coast. David wanted Dave 10 years. Our 10th season of the cue coming up on our 10 year anniversary May of 2020. But this corner are 10 years of the Cube. Our next guest is Sanjay Putting Chief Operating Officer Of'em where who took the time out of his busy schedule to help us do a commemorative look back. Thanks for coming to our studio. Hello, John. That was great. Fans of yours was really regulations on the 10 year mark with the, um well, we really appreciate your partnership. We really appreciate one. Things we love doing is covering as we call that thing. David, I coined the term tech athletes, you know, kind of the whole joke of ESPN effect that we've been called and they're really tech athlete is just someone who's a strong in tech always fighting for that extra inch. Always putting in the hard work discipline, smart, competitive. You get all that above. Plus, you interviewed athletes today on state real athletes. Real athletes, Tech show. So I guess they would qualify as Tech athlete Steve Young. That's pretty funny. It was a >> great time. We've been trying to, you know, Veum World is now the first time was 2004. So it's 1/16 season here, and traditionally many of these tech conference is a really boring because it's just PowerPoint dead by power point lots of Tec Tec Tec Tec breakout sessions. And we're like, You know, last year we thought, Why don't we mix it up and have something that's inspirational education We had Malala was a huge hit. People are crying at the end of the session. Well, let's try something different this year, and we thought the combination of Steve Young and Lyndsey one would be great. Uh, you know, Listen, just like you guys prepped for these interviews, I did a lot of prep. I mean, I'm not I'm a skier, but I'm nowhere close to an avid skier that watch in the Olympics huge fan of Steve Young so that part was easy, but preparing for Lindsay was tough. There were many dynamics of that interview that I had to really think through. You want to get both of them to converse, you know, he's She's 34 he's 55. You want to get them to really feel like it's a good and I think it kind of played out well. >> You were watching videos. A great prep. Congratulations >> trying t o show. It's the culture of bringing the humanization aspect of your team about tech for good. Also, you believe in culture, too, and I don't get your thoughts on that. You recently promoted one of your person that she has a chief communications Johnstone Johnstone about stars you promote from within. This >> is the >> culture you believe it. Talk about the ethos. Jones is a rock star. We love her. She's just >> hardworking, credible, well respected. Inside VM where and when we had a opening in that area a few months ago, I remember going to the her team meeting and announcing, and the team erupted in cheers. I mean that to me tells me that somebody was well liked from within, respected within and pure level and you know the organization's support for a promotion of that kind of battlefield promotion. It's great big fan of hers, and this is obviously her first show at Vienna. Well, along with Robin, Matt, look. So we kind of both of them as the chief marketing officer, Robin and Jones >> and Robinson story. Low Crawl made her interim first, but they then she became Steve Made it Permanent way. >> Want them to both do well. They have different disciplines. Susan, uh, national does our alliances, you know, if you include my chief of staff for the six of my direct reports are women, and I'm a big believer in more women. And take why? Because I want my Sophia, who's 13 year old do not feel like the tech industry is something that is not welcome to women in tech. So, you know, we really want to see more of them. And I hope that the folks who are reporting to me in senior positions senior vice president is an example can be a role model to other women who are aspiring, say, one day I wanna be like a Jones Stone or Robin. Madam Local Susan Nash, >> John and I both have daughters, so we're passionate about this. Tech is everywhere, so virtually whatever industry they go into. But I've asked this question Sanjay of women before on the Cube. I've never asked him in. And because you have a track record of hiring women, how do you succeed in hiring women? Sometimes way have challenges because way go into our little network. Convenient. What? What's your approach? Gotta >> blow off that network and basically say First off, if that network is only male or sometimes unfortunately white male or just Indian male, which is sometimes the nature of tech I mean, if you're looking for a new position, tell the recruiters to find you something that's different. Find me, Ah woman. Find me on underrepresented minority like an African American Latino and those people exist. You just have a goal. Either build a network yourself. So you've got those people on your radar. We'll go look, and that's more work on us, says leaders. But we should be doing that work. We should be cultivating those people because the more you promote capable. First off, you have to be capable. This is not, you know, some kind of affirmative action away. We want capable people. Someone shouldn't get the job just because they're a woman just because the minority, that's not the way we work. We want capable people to do it. But if we have to go a little further to find them, we'll go do it. That's okay. They exist. So part of my desires to cultivate relationships with women and underrepresented minorities in the world that can actually in the world of tech and maintain those relationships because you never know you're not gonna hire them immediately. But at some point in time, you might need to have them on your radar. >> Sanjay, I wanna ask you a big picture question. I didn't get a chance to ask path this morning. I was at the bar last night just having a little dinner, and I was checking out Twitter. And he said that the time has never been. It's never been a greater time arm or important time to be a technologist. Now I saw that I went interesting. What does that mean? Economic impact, social impact? And I know we often say that, and I don't say this to disparage the comment. It's just to provide historical context and get a get it open discussion about what is actually achievable with tech in this era and what we actually believe. So I started to do some research and I started right down. First of all, I presume you believe that right on your >> trusty napkin at the >> bar. So there has never been a more important time to be a technologist. You know, it's your company at your league. You know, Pat, I presume you agree with it. Yeah, absolutely. I slipped it back to the 1900. Electricity, autos, airplanes, telephones. So you we, as an industry are up against some pretty major innovations. With that historical context, Do you feel as though we can have a similar greater economic and social impact? >> Let's start with economic first and social. Next time. Maybe we should do the opposite, but economic? Absolutely. All those inventions that you >> have are all being reinvented. The technology the airplanes all been joined by software telephones are all driving through, you know, five g, which is all software in the future. So tech is really reinventing every industry, including the mundane non tech industries like agriculture. If you look at what's happening. Agriculture, I ot devices are monitoring the amount of water that should go to particular plant in Brazil, or the way in which you're able to use big data to kind of figure out what's the right way to think about health care, which is becoming very much tech oriented financial service. Every industry is becoming a tech industry. People are putting tech executives on their boards because they need an advice on what is the digital transformations impact on them cybersecurity. Everyone started by this. Part of the reason we made these big moves and security, including the acquisition of carbon black, is because that's a fundamental topic. Now social, we have to really use this as a platform for good. So just the same way that you know a matchstick could help. You know, Warm house and could also tear down the house. Is fire good or bad? That's been the perennial debate since people first discovered fire technology. Is this the same way it can be used? Reboot. It could be bad in our job is leaders is to channel the good and use examples aware tech is making a bit force for good. And then listen. Some parts of it may not be tech, but just our influence in society. One thing that pains me about San Francisco's homelessness and all of the executives that a partner to help rid this wonderful city of homeless men. They have nothing to attack. It might be a lot of our philanthropy that helps solve that and those of us who have much. I mean, I grew up in a poor, uh, bringing from Bangla, India, but now I have much more than I have. Then I grew up my obligations to give back, and that may have nothing to do with Tech would have to do all with my philanthropy. Those are just principles by which I think when you live with your a happier man, happier woman, you build a happier >> society and I want to get your thoughts on common. And I asked a random set of college students, thanks to my son that the network is you said your daughter to look at the key to Pat's King Pat's commentary in The Cube here this morning that was talking about tech for good. And here's some of the comments, but I liked the part about tech for good and humanity. Tech with no purpose is meaningless tech back by purposes. More impactful is what path said then the final comments and Pat's point quality engineering backing quality purpose was great. So again, this is like this is Gen Z, not Millennials. But again, this is the purpose where it's not just window dressing on on industry. It's, you know, neutral fire. I like that argument. Fire. That's a good way Facebook weaponizing Facebook could be good or bad, right? Same thing. But the younger generation. You're new demographics that are coming into cloud. Native. Yeah, what do you think? >> No. And I think that's absolutely right. We have to build a purpose driven company that's purposes much more than just being the world's best softer infrastructure company or being the most profit. We have to obviously deliver results to our shareholders. But I think if you look at the Milton Friedman quote, you know, paper that was written that said, the sole purpose of a company is just making profits, and every business school student is made to read that I >> think even he >> would probably agree that listen today While that's important, the modern company has to also have a appropriate good that they are focused on, you know, with social good or not. And I don't think it's a trade off being able to have a purpose driven culture that makes an impact on society and being profitable. >> And a pointed out yesterday on our intro analysis, the old term was You guys go Oh, yeah, Michael Dell and PAD shareholder value. They point out that stakeholder value, because now the stakeholder Employees and society. So congratulations could keep keep keep it going on the millennial generation. >> Just like your son and our kids want a purpose driven company. They want to know that the company that working for is having an impact. Um, not just making an impression. You do that. It shows like, but having an impact. >> And fire is the most popular icon on instagram. Is that right? Yeah, I know that fire is good. Like your fire. Your hot I don't know. I guess. Whatever. Um fire. Come comment. There was good Sanjay now on business front. Okay, again, A lot of inflection points happen over 10 years. We look back at some of this era, the Abel's relationship would you know about. But they've also brought up a nuance which we talked about on the intro air Watch. You were part of that acquisition again. Pig part of it. So what Nasiriyah did for the networking STD see movement that shaped VM. Whereas it is today your acquisition that you were involved and also shaping the end user computing was also kind of come together with the cloud Natives. >> How is >> this coming to market? I mean, you could get with >> my comparison with carbon black there watch was out of the building. Carbon black is not considered. >> Let's talk about it openly. And we talked about it some of the earnings because we got that question. Listen, I was very fortunate. Bless to work on the revitalization of end user computing that was Turbo charged to the acquisition of a watch. At that time was the biggest acquisition we did on both Nice era and air watch put us into court new markets, networking and enterprise mobility of what we call not additional work space. And they've been so successful thanks to know not just me. It was a team of village that made those successful. There's a lot of parallels what we're doing. Carbon, black and security. As we looked at the security industry, we feel it's broken. I alluded to this, but if I could replay just 30 seconds of what I said on some very important for your viewers to know this if I went to my doctor, my mom's a doctor and I asked her how Doe I get well, and she proposed 5000 tablets to me. Okay, it would take me at 30 seconds of pop to eat a tablet a couple of weeks to eat 5000 tablets. That's not how you stay healthy. And the analogy is 5000 metres and security all saying that they're important fact. They use similar words to the health care industry viruses. I mean, you know, you and what do you do instead, to stay healthy, you have a good diet. You eat your vegetables or fruit. Your proteins drink water. So part of a diet is making security intrinsic to the platform. So the more that we could make security intrinsic to the platform, we avoid the bloatware of agents, the number of different consuls, all of this pleasure of tools that led to this morass. And what happens at the end of that is you about these point vendors, Okay, Who get gobbled up by hardware companies that's happening spattered my hardware companies and sold to private equity companies. What happens? The talent they all leave, we look at the landscape is that's ripe for disruption, much the same way we saw things with their watch. And, you know, we had only companies focusing VD I and we revitalize and innovative that space. So what we're gonna do in securities make it intrinsic and take a modern cloud security company carbon black, and make that part of our endpoint Security and Security Analytics strategy? Yes, they're one of two companies that focus in the space. And when we did air watch, they were number three. Good was number one. Mobile line was number two and that which was number three and the embers hands. We got number one. The perception in this space is common. Lacks number two and crowdstrike number one. That's okay, you know, that might be placed with multiple vendors, but that's the state of it today, and we're not going point against Crowdstrike. Our competition's not just an endpoint security point to a were reshaping the entire security industry, and we believe with the integration that we have planned, like that product is really good. I would say just a cz good upper hand in some areas ahead of common black, not even counting the things we're gonna integrate with it. It's just that they didn't have the gold market muscle. I mean, the sales and marketing of that company was not as further ahead that >> we >> change Of'em where we've got an incredible distribution will bundle that also with the Dell distribution, and that can change. And it doesn't take long for that to take a lot of customers here. One copy black. So that's the way in which we were old. >> A lot of growth there. >> Yeah, plenty of >> opportunity to follow up on that because you've obviously looked at a lot of companies and crowdstrike. I mean, huge valuation compared to what you guys paid for carbon black. I mean, >> I'm a buyer. I mean, if I'm a buyer, I liked what we paid. >> Well, I had some color to it. Just when you line up the Was it really go to market. I mean some functions. Maybe not that there >> was a >> few product gaps, but it's not very nominal. But when you add what we announced in a road map app, defensive alderman management, the integration of works based one this category is gonna be reshaped very quickly. Nobody, I mean, the place. We're probably gonna compete more semantic and McAfee because most of those companies that kind of decaying assets, you know, they've gotten acquired by the companies and they're not innovating. So I'd say the bulk of the market will be eating up the leftover fossils of those sort of companies as as companies decided they want to invest in legacy. Technology is a more modern, but I think the differentiation from Crowdstrike very clear is we integrate these, these technology and the V's fear. Let me give an example. With that defense, we can make that that workload security agent list. Nobody can do that. Nobody, And that's apt defense with carbon black huge innovation. I described on stage workspace one plus carbon black is like peanut butter and jelly management. Security should go together. Nobody could do that as good as us. Okay, what we do inside NSX. So those four areas that I outlined in our plans with carbon black pending the close of the transaction into V sphere Agent Lis with workspace one unified with NSX integrated and into secure state, You know, in the cloud security area we take that and then send it through the V m. Where the devil and other ecosystem channels like you No idea. Security operative CDW You know, I think Dimension data, all the security savvy partners here. I think the distribution and the innovation of any of'em were takes over long term across strike may have a very legitimate place, but our strategy is very different. We're not going point tool against 0.0.2 wish reshaping the security industry. Yeah, What platform? >> You're not done building that platform. My obvious question is the other other assets inside of Arcee and secureworks that you'd like to get your hands on. >> I mean, listen, at this point in time, we are good. I mean, it's the same thing like asking me when we acquired air watching. Nice Here. Are you gonna do more networking and mobility? Yeah, but we're right now. We got enough to Digest in due course you. For five years later, we did acquire Arkin for network Analytics. We acquired fellow Cloud for SD when we're cloud recently, Avi. So the approach we take a hammer to innovations first. You know, if you're gonna have an anchor acquisition, make sure it's got critical mass. I mean, buying a small start up with only 35 people 10 people doesn't really work for us. So we got 1100 people would come back, we're gonna build on it. But let's build, build, build, build, partner and then acquire. So we will partner a lot with a lot of players. That compliment competition will build a lot around this. >> And years from now, we need >> add another tuck in acquisition. But we feel we get a lot in this acquisition from both endpoint security and Security Analytics. Okay, it's too early to say how much more we will need and when we will need that. But, you know, our goal would be Let's go plot away. I have a billion dollar business and then take it from there. >> One more security question, if I may say so. I'm not trying to pit you against your friends and AWS. But there are some cleared areas where your counter poise >> Stevens just runs on eight of us comin back. >> That part about a cloud that helps your class ass business. I like the acquisition. But Steven Schmidt, it reinforced the cloud security conference, said, You know, this narrative in the industry that security is broken is not the right one. Now, by the way, agree with this. Security's a do over pat kill singer. And we talked about that for five years ago. Um, but then in eight of you says the shared security model, when you talk to the practitioners like, yeah, they they cover, that's three and compute. But we have the the real work to d'oh! So help me square that circle. >> Yeah, I think if aws bills Security Service is that our intrinsic to their platform and they open up a prize, we should leverage it. But I don't think aws is gonna build workload security for azure compute or for Gogol compute. That's against the embers or into the sphere. Like after finishing third accordion. And they're like, That's not a goal. You go do it via more So from my perspective. Come back to hydrogen. 80. If there's a workload security problem that's going to require security at the kernel of the hyper visor E C to azure compute containers. Google Compute. >> Who's gonna do >> that? Jammer? Hopefully, hopefully better than because we understand the so workloads. Okay, now go to the client site. There's Windows endpoints. There's Mac. There's Lennox. Who should do it? We've been doing that for a while on the client side and added with workspace one. So I think if you believe there is a Switzerland case for security, just like there was a Switzerland case for management endpoint management I described in Point management in Point Security going together like peanut butter and jelly, Whatever your favorite analogy is, if we do that well, we will prove to the market just like we did with their watch An endpoint management. There is a new way of doing endpoint security. Dan has been done ever before. Okay, none >> of these >> guys let me give an example. I've worked at Semantic 15 years ago. I know a lot about the space. None of these guys built a really strategic partnership with the laptop vendors. Okay, Del was not partnering strategically on their laptops with semantic micro. Why? Because if this wasn't a priority, then they were, you know, and a key part of what we're doing here is gonna be able to do end point management. And in point security and partner Adult, they announced unified workspace integrated into the silicon of Dell laptops. Okay, we can add endpoint security that capability next. Why not? I mean, if you could do management security. So, you know, we think that workspace one, we'll get standing toe work space security with the combination of workspace one and security moving and carbon black. >> Sanjay, we talked about this on our little preview and delivery. Done us. We don't need to go into it. The Amazon relationship cleared the way for the strategy in stock price since October 2016 up. But >> one of the >> things I remember from that announcement that I heard from the field sales folks that that were salespeople for VM wear as well as customers, was finally clarity around. What the hell? We're doing the cloud. So I bring up the go to market In the business side, the business results are still strong. Doing great. You guys doing a great job? >> How do you >> keep your field troops motivated? I know Michael Dell says these are all in a strategy line. So when we do these acquisitions, you >> had a lot >> of new stuff coming in. I mean, what's how do you keep him trained? Motivated constantly simplifying whenever >> you get complex because you add into your portfolio, you go back and simplify, simplify, simplify, make it Sesame Street simple. So we go back to that any cloud, any app, any device diagram, if you would, which had security on the side. And we say Now, let's tell you looking this diagram how the new moves that we've made, whether it's pivotal and what we're announcing with tanz ou in the container layer that's in that any Apple air carbon black on the security there. But the core strategy of the emer stays the same. So the any cloud strategy now with the relevance now what, what eight of us, Who's our first and preferred partner? But if you watched on stage, Freddie Mac was incredible. Story. Off moving 600 absent of the N word cloud made of us Fred and Tim Snyder talked about that very eloquently. The deputy CTO. They're ratty Murthy. CTO off Gap basically goes out and says, Listen, I got 800 APS. I'm gonna invest a lot on premise, and when I go to the cloud, I'm actually going to Azure. >> Thanks for joining you. Keep winning. Keep motivated through winning >> and you articulate a strategy that constantly tells people Listen. It's their choice of how they run in the data center in the cloud. It's their choice, and we basically on top of all of those in the any cloud AP world. That's how we play on the same with the device and the >> security. A lot of great things having Sanjay. Thanks >> for you know what a cricket fan I am. Congratulations. India won by 318 goals. Is that >> what they call girls run against the West Indies? I think you >> should stay on and be a 40 niner fan for when you get Tom baseball get Tom Brady's a keynote will know will be in good Wasn't Steve Young and today love so inspirational and we just love them? Thank you for coming on the Cube. 10 years. Congratulations. Any cute moments you can point out >> all of them. I mean, I think when I first came to, I was Who's the d? I said ASAP, like these guys, John and Dave, and I was like, Man, they're authentic people. What I like about you is your authentic real good questions. When I came first year, you groomed me a lot of their watch like, Hey, this could be a big hat. No cattle. What you gonna do? And you made me accountable. You grilled me on eight of us. You're grilling me right now on cloud native and modern, absent security, which is good. You keep us accountable. Hopefully, every you're that we come to you, we want to show as a team that we're making progress and then were credible back with you. That's the way we roll. >> Sanjay. Thanks for coming. Appreciate. Okay, we're live here. Stay with us for more of this short break from San Francisco v emerald 2019

>> live from New York. It's the Q covering AWS Global Summit 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web service is >> Welcome back to New York City. This is a W s summit and I'm stew Minutemen. My co host is Corey Quinn. We've talked to Amazon executives. We've talked to some customers. We've also talked to some of the partners and part of the partner ecosystem is course these startups aws very robust ecosystem that they've been building out. And one of the pieces were real excited to dig into in the surveillance space habit of revering program for first time. Ken Robinson, the CEO and founder of Goto Software who is the maker of cloud pegboard, take so much for joining us >> having to be here so exciting. >> Alright, So, Cloud pegboard, you had us hooked when we talked about you know, serverless you know, the the information overload that we all feel in the United with world. Cory's got a full time job helping with that and other things related to it s oh, bring us a little bit about, you know, pegboard in your background. >> Yeah, I want to help you out. So my background is I ran a major cloud transformation to Amazon. My past job, which I left in January and really solve problems, information overload, was slowing people down, people making sub optimal choices. They're spending a lot of time trying to keep up. Sometimes we have to be fact because they didn't have the right information the right time. And I realized we need to solve this. And it wasn't just in our organization. Every Amazon practitioner across the planet really needs help to keep up. When I talked with people, these conferences, it that's like the main comment, like, I can't consume it >> all. How you keep up can it is staggering. Actually, I stopped asking about two years ago how you keep up because I talked to some amazingly smart, well connected people and they're like, No, no, it's impossible. But I want you to comment on something I used to be. When you talking about, I need to start this. I should have started a year ago, but I didn't, so I should start now and now it feels like, Well, if I could, I actually should wait a couple of months or six months or even a year but I absolutely get started. So I guess I might as well start now because things change at such a pace. I mean, that that, you know. Oh, wait. If I could just wait a little bit longer Gonna be Maurin better and cheaper and faster s O. You know what you're taking kind of pace of change in the industry. >> Well, you know, one thing is, I think you just have to keep agile and buy into the fact you're going to have to throw away things like don't get so buried filled with what you can do today as best you can. But be ready to re factor and get rid of it. >> Oh! Oh, my God. I had the i t organization and the whole our quarters. Everything in i t is additive. Nothing ever dies. But I do agree with you. We have been for more than a decade. You know why our analyst team and talking, You have to get rid of stuff that needs to be able to do that. You know, sunk costs is something you're familiar with. Economics is you know, I need to understand that that even have been doing it for a while. We need to be able to cut that. But way have these attachments to the things we've been doing and how we've been doing it. No change isn't necessarily easy, >> right? Well, there's a reason some of the attacks is because there's a lot of investment to build up in the first place. And when you put so much sweat into it, then I don't want to undo it. When it gets easier to build, it's easier to throw away. So I was just giving this talk earlier and saying I religiously stick with infrastructure is code because if you do that, it's just so easy to make incremental changes. And again, Serverless makes everything so much easier if we don't get married to something. If it's changing like one window function, yeah, it's just kind of a bench of a big deal. So if you invest a little bit lessons easier by making use of special, the high level managed service is then it's easier to the pivot from one thing to another. One needs to. >> Yeah, something I found is I play with this stuff myself in a very similar space, with less comprehensiveness and far more sarcasm, I suspect than your service does, is that when you're building everything out of composited Lambda Functions tied together in a micro service's style. Re factoring one of those micro service is usually doesn't take more than a day or two as opposed to, Oh, just rebuild the entire monolith from scratch, which it feels like everyone tries to do. At some point, it almost enforces good behavior. It makes it easier to evolve as I've been your experience it differently. >> Absolutely. So this two things it helps. It's easy to re factor and throw things out because it's small and it's again, you're not married to it as much, but also easy to incrementally add on. So I have this whole tier of these micro service. Is that a captain? All this data that we're pulling in from multiple sources, whether it's Amazon's Web site or terror, for more get up any source I confined that has data that I want to organize help with my users. So we get Henry finding new data sources, leaks new data sources, essentially a new lambda function. It's independent, and if I change it, we actually had one recently I found a better data source. I just threw up the old one and plugged in the new one. And it really was less than a day to write the new function and a brilliant into production. So, yeah, >> can you know, one of the answers I've had for a long time is you know, I need to rely on, you know, my consultants and my suppliers because, you know, you don't even understand some of these architectural things that are going on. And things are changing so fast. So you know, how much can software solve this for us? And you know that the tools itself, I have to imagine there's still a lot of people involved. >> Yeah. There's always gonna be a lot of people involved. And there is no free lunch that, you know, every architect or developer of the Amazon. You still need to get yourself trained, get the certifications, read the white papers, keep up to date with all the changes. And we really do is we're running inside again. That's my past. Life is an enterprise. You really want to build internal excellence. Certainly we can use outside help when you need it. Augmentation. and blasts my people everywhere. But you definitely wanna have some internal expertise. And people are committed to growing and continuing going to New York summit, going to reinvent talking to people and always constantly learning It's going to take human effort to help, uh, filter down and find out. Where is the trend that I really need to start thinking about? Hopefully people. It is a tool helps people be much more efficient and focus in much easier. But nothing will replace engineers, which is a good thing, >> right? And for those who are outside of the, I guess very small fraternity we have apparently built. Now there are two of us who track this stuff for a living. It's it is far more complex than most people would accept. Why don't you just sign up for the R. S s feed? Well, for starters, there's over a dozen official aws R s s feed, and they're not all inclusive. You have to look at poor request getting merchant there a p I updates. You see it in cloud formation and terra form from time to time. And I am certainly not comprehensive. In fact, when I built my newsletter. Originally my thought was that someone was gonna point out something like Cloud Backboard and say, Well, idiot, use this instead. And then I shut it down and admit defeat, and that was the plan. Instead, a bunch of people signed up, and now I want people to read it for the joke's not because it's the only half sensible way to figure out what happened last week. No, I'm a huge fan of the problem you're solving in the way you've got about doing it. That said, when we talk about service architectures, you mentioned spinning up Lambda functions and tying it back into other things. But as they mention Nicky, no today server. This goes beyond just functions as a service. There's a lot more to it than that. What else is your architecture >> includes everything. Serverless exclusively. So >> So they're poking on. So you're collecting every service thing they offer and then some just a get style points there, regardless. >> Well, so you know, one of the half several strategic principles and one of them is to rely solely on serve Ellis because I just can't afford a small start up to be building out Mon function requirements that are building the business. So S O. S to be hosting dynamodb cloudfront ap Gateway. Then we use will all these features Not only do I use all serverless, but we're also using for disaster recovery designed so that we're using some additional features within these, so it's easier fail over. So cloudfront, for example, has Arjun fail over a relatively new feature and it's really amazing, right? I can go to my S three and I have the benefits of estimates service hosting. But now, in a failure cloudfront relative my alternate region continue our operating same thing with dynamodb using global table replication only >> and continuous backup, which they released. I'm not kidding. Three days after I really needed it. It's that seems like that's always the case where they have these features and they come in right after you need to read if you build a crappy version of it and it's one of those. But I love about things at a relatively small scale like this is the economics are ridiculous. It's well, watch out for continuous backups that could be expensive, and I wound up checking it, and it wound up being something like two cents a month. Yeah, I work real hard to bring enough in to cover the back up. Yeah, I >> had someone come up to me after one of the talks and asking like he's not in Amazon. He's thinking the moving there. It's like how much you I have something a little bit similar to what you're doing, and how much will it cost? How much like Budget and I say, To be honest, I've got some credits, Levin warning, but I can't spend them. I can't. I want to accelerate by spending money. I can't do it, especially with dynamodb. Used to be that you would provisions something, a lot of eye ops and that would rack up really fast. Now I'm using the on demand, and it's just not costing anything. So that's what again. This Burn was talking about not paying for idle time, >> and some of the monitoring tools in the surveillance space air still approaching it from an economic first perspective, which for anything that isn't already scaled out, is ludicrous. It has, like warnings, going arrows going up or down on my spend on my land is every month, and it's 22 cents. It's I appreciate where you're going with this, but maybe that's not the driving concern right now. So I >> had a funny experience where I turned on Macy so we could get some good inspection on the anomaly buckets. And on the first of the month, I got a notice saying, Hey, you exceeded the free tier. I was in a bit of a panic has been more than once. I'm sad to say that I've let things run longer than they should and paid the price, and I owe something has run amok. Well, it turns out, just because of the metadata scans, it does kind of use a lot of access is. But then still was under a buck for the whole month by the time outs and done because I came in to begin the month with a bunch of scanning. Yeah, it's just a big fan of service. I did this thing. >> Yeah, I was just Kennedy. Speaking of survival is an Amazon event Bridge was announced this morning. Really building that event ecosystem around Lambda. Curious what impact that will have on you will cloud pegboard be able to go outside of AWS to kind of understand some of these sacks applications. >> I have to learn more about it. I was not in on a preview or anything, so I don't know exactly get. But But yes, we will rip apart meeting with other providers anywhere. There's an information source that can help developers hone in better and kind of get everything in the right place at the right time on. So, yes, things like that will help, especially if it can work through. I don't want to be opening up sqs cues way worried about the I am the cross account. That could be complicated, so I'll be interested to learn. And I don't know yet if that will help in those sorts of integrations, especially on the office. Can't authentication and authorization aspects of it? >> Yeah, there's a lot of promise in the idea of being able to give the minimum viable, required a p. I call for something third party. It seems like there they'll integrate into something like that. Well, here's how I am works and then we have to worry about access controls and oh yeah, there's no direct i p address the white list. And on and on and on. It's challenging to forcibly upgrade third parties. Unless you're effectively a giant, world spanning company, you can demand that they do it. So this it really feels like we're meeting third parties in some ways where they are. >> Yeah, I think so. And I think this is looking forward to them because I want to both consume maybe eyes. But also all my data is available via AP I So today it's a bit of a traditional. No, he and rest would have been the face, but if I could export that in other ways, that would be very interesting as well. >> I think it's too easy to get stuck in the economic story of times. I know it's weird is a cloud economist to be saying that, But when it comes to server list, the value is less about cost control, and saving money on it is you don't have to worry about entire subsets of problems capacity planning your effectively when it comes to things like Lambda Dynamodb and the rest. The constraint on scaling is going to be your budget. I promise. No matter who these budgets are, go for me. This is what they run amazon dot com on. I don't think I'm gonna do more business than that. Unless I really miss configure something. Challenge accepted. >> Yeah. Yeah. So I totally agree that scaling is the value, but it's also this more right. The scaling is absolutely one. And then, in addition to fragility, because survivalist means service. But now the term is getting confused, right? It means so many things. So I was saving serverless managed service is to help Seo. I'm talking about more than compute, but it also means is I'm getting a very high level function. So I'm getting so for David, we're using Comprehend. That's an awful lot of stuff going on under there that I don't have to worry about. I mean, I literally have an intern in a couple of days, completed a task to do some entity extraction of such a Amazon service stains out of unstructured data. She was able to do it. She just finished a freshman year, right? I was able to do this with minimal training because it's survivalist shouldn't worry about scalability. What she needed to know is that oh, I can use this function. I could read maybe I documentation, and I could just use it for me. Another big function behind step, but also no maintenance low, maybe a more accurate term. But essentially, it's no maintenance, especially for a small start up. I used to have businesses way back when pre Internet I ran an aviation weather service in my life was the bane of my existence because it had to be. At 24 7 I had satellite dishes that would get snowed on. I was an idiot. Did this in New England. They have to shovel him off at four in the morning. I don't like waking up in the middle of the night to serve my computers. They should serve me. And in the service of the fact that there's no maintenance stuff, just runs. You think about the times. How many times have you had a serve in the past when you just thought you should reboot it every week? Because maybe >> because tradition, >> tradition and maybe there's a leak somewhere, Melinda function reboots. Every invocation. It just never happens that I have run out of resource is something that I'm just a love affair. >> All right, so So Ken. It's obvious how you feel about server list, but as a start up, just give us a final thoughts on what it's like to be a startup that is on with and, you know, using AWS. >> Well, for me, it's fantastic. It allows me to focus on the problem, to solve immediately and by using high in the stack like you're saying surveillance capabilities. I'm not worried about the infrastructure. I read a little bit of confirmation. I deploy it, and I'm always working on business logic and functionality, and I'm not worrying about well, its scale. Do I have to maintain it, I think, really focus on the problems to solve, and that's where they've been very helpful to make. So now we have something where I can scale. I'm hoping I'm not there yet, but every Amazon practitioner should want to use cloud pegboard. I think it helps with a general problem, so I need to be able to scale to millions. Firstly, I don't know what the doctor is going to be, but I have confidence because I'm using all these service capabilities. S3 will do it. Amazon Gateway in Lambda will do it, so I don't worry about it. So for a start up, to not have to worry about that is it's really pretty powerful. >> And by the time you wind up in a cost prohibitive situation, we're okay. Running some baseline level load that something that isn't server Lis begins to make significant economic sense. At that point, your traffic volumes definitional hier so high that by that point there's a team of people who will be able to focus on that. You don't need to bring those people into get off the ground in >> the same way, right? It's that fast start, and we gotta learn. There's so much to learn here with any start up. But you know, in mind as well to really get some of the user experience, get the feedback. It's We have a lot of good ideas, and I think what we have now is helpful. I have a long term road map with a lot of great ideas, but it's gonna take a lot of user feedback to say, Is this working and the service lets you tried things quickly. I could get in front of people, get that learning cycle going and iterated fast as possible. So that will be really important. All right, >> Ken Robbins really help you appreciate you educating our audience. Climb aboard. Wish you best of luck with >> it. I appreciate being here. >> All right. For Cory Quinn. I'm still minimum, and we'll be back with more coverage here from eight of US Summit in New York City. Thanks. Always for watching the cue.

>> Narrator: Live from Washington D.C. It's the Cube, covering AWS Public Sector Summit. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back everyone, to the Cube's live coverage of the AWS Public Sector Summit here in our nations capitol. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost John Furrier. We have Allison Robinson joining us, she is the AVP IT operations at Cal Poly University. Thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >> Thank you for having me. >> So, talk about your big announcement yesterday in terms of ground station. This is one of John's favorite topics, so tell us more about what you announced. >> So yesterday there was an announcement that Cal Poly through our digital transformation hub, and that hub exists to do innovated things with the greater good through the public sector and helping with challenges that they're trying to learn more about and solve problems. And so, through that group, we announced the initiative to do cube satellite in connection with ground station at AWS, to be able to help people that use these satellites be able to test these satellites and collect data and share it ultimately, with others. 'Cause there's a problem, they're not expensive satellites but that means you don't have a lot of money to work with. And so to be able to test and make sure your communications are good and the infrastructure is there, is kind of missing in the whole environment. And now, that's going to be solved. >> And you're able to get many more shots and pay as you go, not necessarily have to, as you said, put up your own satellite yourself. >> Exactly, you can put the satellite up. The problem was the infrastructure to communicate back with it. So, the ground station, those antenna are approximately located to AWS regions. So you can now bring the data, process it, store it, analyze it, and then ultimately share it. That, again, being for the public good, we want to make sure the date we're collecting is in the AWS registry, data set registry. So that people can access that information, that's important. >> Allison, talk about the relationship with AWS, how did it get started? I mean your involved with these cool projects like ground station, which I'm a big fan of. 'Cause I think the impact to IOT, just forest fires in California could be a real... >> Allison: Right. >> Saver right there. Just using data, back hauling data for whatever is going to be a great thing. But you got a relationship with AWS, that goes beyond, not just ground station, there's other things going on. Take a minute to explain the relationship with AWS. >> So, the vice president of IT at Cal Poly, Bill Britton, began his position with Cal Poly about two years ago. And took a look at the data center and had to ask the question, do we invest here on prem or do we have to look for something else? And that began the conversation of, we need to do something about our data center, it looks like Amazon has the tools we need to modernize our technical environment. Both in how we work, how people work, our processes and our technical infrastructure. And so, that began the work of, we announced two years ago, I didn't work for Cal Poly yet. They announced there, the President and Bill announced that we were all in. The data center was going to AWS. I happened to be presenting on a different topic, and we connected there, and a year later, we made a connection and I have been at Cal Poly now for a year to help them get to the AWS data center. >> Lot of smart people Cal Poly, I know, I looked at the university. Great computer science, great everything. You guys got a lot of smart people, so what was it like to actually, as this starts to evolve, the progression of the modernization. Take us through where you guys are on progress, what are some of the cool things going on. What's the result of this shift? What are some of the notable highlights? >> It's really exciting, because we really did take an approach of we've got to look at, not just as AWS and a new tool. Which you have to work so differently, in dev ops and agily. We said okay, then we've got to figure out our processes to be able to work that way. We have to change as an organization. So we were more structured around those technical silos. And we became a service management group for like, who do we serve and what are they trying to accomplish? And that's the focus of everything we do. So from idea to service we have a process to handle to that. And AWS, we're all in on their tools too.6 So they completely facilitate that process6. >> You have a lot of stake holders, so you have impact at the student body level, faculty, institution overall.6 >> Right. >> What are some of the game changers that you see? Obviously the ground station, you got great R and D coming in with Amazon. What's the impact? >> The digital transformation hub is part of the IT organization as well. And our community outreach and giving students actual hands on experience to work with the public sector, whether it be law enforcement, or maybe a city trying to deal with a homeless situation. They actually are engaged with professionals and learning about problems and solutions. And in ten weeks, we work on quarters, and our quarters are ten weeks, which align perfectly to exactly how long it takes an engagement with the digital hub to find what's possible in terms of solutions to problems. >> So talk about the students of today. I mean, we hear a lot about them. And I want to hear you, you're teaching them, you're helping to educate this new generation of people who we hope will make huge, great waves in industry, private industry, as well as state, local, and the federal government. >> Allison: Right. >> What do you see as their strengths, their weaknesses, and what are they looking at in terms of building careers? >> You know, they, I really do love working with the students. They are incredible. It makes me wonder sometimes, I don't think I'd get into college now, times have changed. And they really care, they care, that's why the public, being able to work through these to serve the greater good of the public and share that data after actually means so much more to them. Than if it were just a class project, because they want to make a difference. They care about social justice and making sure that we're green and efficient with how we use our earth resources. And so this maps around a lot of the challenges. The homelessness that I mentioned before, and how we've worked with that. Or making sure that we can make cities safer. They care about that deeply. And they have access to a lot of resources. This past fall's incoming class was born in the year 2000. They've never not known a time with computers. They do math homework, they're not reading, they're actually doing homework on their phones. Their very mobilely engaged, very digitally engaged. And we're going to see wonderful things from them, because they think so differently about these things. >> It sounds as though the education that you're providing is very practical, in the sense that you're having your students work with the state and local governments on these issues like homelessness and climate change. Can you talk about some of the projects that their doing? >> So our mantra is learn by doing. And you come in and you are admitted to a major. And you begin working in that major right away. Every student finishes their last quarter with a senior project. And you actually produce an outcome and have something you can talk about, both as the product and the process to get there. I was recently invited to the senior projects showcase for the graphic arts department. And, in common, they all had technology. And some where, one of the students we had just contracted for some software, and thank you so much you helped make the difference with that. So that's neat, when you get to see to make that difference. But even though it's graphic arts, in every way technology was key to what they do. And they have, really, you know students come from some great backgrounds too, where they've had some great access to information and technology and really think differently about it. Engineering students are winning awards and doing really great things. So it's fun to see and be a part of. Great energy. >> What about the culture within your department itself? I mean, you're not only educating the next generation but you're also doing research yourself. Can you talk about, particularly, as a partner, as working so closely with AWS, which has such a famous culture of innovation and of taking risks and tolerating failure, because the more failures you'll have, you'll ultimately get there someday. So can you talk a little bit about the culture within Cal Poly? >> It's hard, because IT people are usually very analytical and there's a right and a wrong. So that sense of it's okay to get it wrong, isn't popular generally. So, that starts with me, I had to get up and say we may not get it right, but rarely do we get it wrong. We might get parts of it wrong, we adjust. It's okay to get it wrong. We've got to figure things out, all of this is new. And as I've been there longer and really work with people through different things, they believe that from me now. There's not judgment. I once worked at a place where it'd go on your permanent record. Well, try and get somebody to try something innovated if you have a problem and it goes on your permanent record. So I don't have that now. >> Rebecca: It'd be a career ender. >> Yeah. >> Bill: Yeah. >> I have a lot of people getting it, and we're trying it. And you can work so fast in the AWS environment, that if it isn't right, blow it away and start over again. >> In some organization you were a renegade if you tried something new. You know, oh my God, don't touch that third rail. >> Allison: Yeah. >> Here, you guys are doing, it's progressive in the sense that you're trying new things. >> Learn by doing is a call to action, but it also gives you that space to try. >> Bill: Yeah, be creative. >> It's learning. >> What's your impression of the show here in DC? Obviously, it's our fourth year covering public sector. I've been following them a couple years earlier, but the first four years covering live broadcasting, reporting. But, besides the growth, what's your takeaway? >> I need to be cloned. (laughter) >> There are so many things happening here. >> You need a digital twin. >> There you go. >> You can solve that, Allison. >> There's going to be a lot of people that say, no don't clone her, don't do it. But there's so much information and the innovation that AWS does. Sometimes it's like exciting to hear, and it's like oh where was that a month ago when we were working on that? So we just have to stay on our toes and we have to keep engaged with AWS and what they're doing and what we can use from them to make our environment better. And move even faster. >> You got to keep, keeping pace is also a hard thing. Because they're introducing so many new things. At amazon. We're very fortunate again in our partnership, actually that does translate into the IT operations organization. That we've been working with them on some services that they do. We can tell them, hey this isn't quite working, and they honestly listen to us. And deliver what they ask on a road map, sometimes sooner than later too. So it's been a great partnership. >> That's interesting, a company that actually delivers on what you ask for. >> Exactly, exactly. And we have scaled, you know it's a small town there's 24,000 students, you have your faculty and staff. So when we try something with them, we have the opportunity for big impacts right away. >> That's awesome, well, congratulations, great work >> Thank you. >> On the DX hubs fascinating ground station. Great projects, students and you guys to play around and help that grow. Because that's going to be a great service. >> Yes, we're excited. We can't wait to get going. >> Rebecca: Thanks for coming the Cube Allison. >> Thank you. >> We will have more of the Cubes live coverage of the AWS Public Sector Summit here in Washington DC. Stay tuned. (upbeat beat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Miami Beach, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering veeAMON 2019. Brought to you by veeAM. >> Welcome back to veeAMON 2019, in Miami. My name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with Justin Warren as my co-host. Simon Robinson here is the Senior Vice President, 451 Research, Simon it's great to see you, thanks for coming to the cube. >> Thanks for having me. >> So is this your, is this right, your first veeAMON. >> It is, it is, first veeAMON, the first time in Miami, first time on theCUBE. So kind of bucket list check. >> Hey, got to give you a sticker here then, so here you go, thank you for coming on. And of course you've got the veeAM party tonight, which you may have been to some other veeAM parties at other shows, but-- >> Simon: I know them by reputation. >> Yeah, they're good. So looking forward to that. Two days, what have you learned here in the last couple of days, what are your impressions? >> Yeah, my impressions are that this is a conference that reflects the type of company that I think veeAM is, and veeAM's a little atypical for a technology company in this space, they didn't go down the traditional route, they had a very kind of different model right from the get-go, but what I see is real grass roots innovation, and veeAM has always been short on rhetoric, short on hype, and long on actually delivering the products and the capabilities that customers want, and it's been great to see examples of how that's playing out at the show, and we heard Ratmir talking about innovation, and 451 Research, we're an analyst firm focused on understanding the impacts of innovation, we provide data and insight around the technology innovation lifecycle, and it's always been, we've covered veeAM from pretty much day one, and it's always been clear to us that veeAM is a pretty special company, not just you have to be in the right place at the right time with the right product, but you also have to do it in a way that, they're kind of table stakes, you've got to do it in a way that actually engages and empathizes with what a customer is looking to achieve, and I think they've got that at the grassroots level, the veeAM admin level, a decade or more ago, and really have doubled down on that, so it's been awesome to see some of the examples of that at the conference this last couple of days, to have a general session with the eight demos. (laughing) >> And they all worked. >> They all worked. >> All of the eight!. >> I was terrified when they wheeled out the tub of water and it was like, they were dropping a laptop in there. Hey, you know, it was awesome and I think Ratmir is talking around, this being Act Two of veeAM's journey and veeAM's story. But firstly, lets kind of pay tribute to what they did in Act One. I think for any company to build a billion dollar revenue business software is a phenomenal achievement. But to do it in the data protection space? It's even more so. >> It's on backup, possibly the most boring thing ever, and they've kind of made it exciting. >> They used to say that backup was, well they used to say two things about backup. Firstly it's an insurance policy. And secondly, it was the one part of the IT environment that even storage people found boring. (laughing) But I mean, just see the kind of energy, enthusiasm, passion, of the folks here. That really isn't the case. >> That's true. It's been one of those boring but important factors. And then, veeAM's ascendancy, I've said this many times, has coincided with the birth of virtualization. We were consolidating physical servers because they were under-utilized, but then the backup had to be completely rethought because you didn't have enough band-width in the servers, and the capacity to run a backup job, and here comes veeAM, and it's just perfect fit, boom. Takes off. Now you've got Act Two, which is cloud. And I feel like it's jump balled, to use a U.S. basketball analogy, for you-- >> Simon: No idea what that means. >> --folks who don't follow basketball. (laughing) But it's "start over," right? And so, everybody's going after cloud, multi-cloud hybrid. And so, do you feel as though veeAM can replicate a success in what Ratmir's calling "Act Two" and draft from "Act One"? And one of the key factors, what's the tail wind for them, and what are some of the head winds. Certainly competition, we're going to' talk about that, but what are some of the other things that you guys see in your research? >> Yeah, so I think, I mean, first off, I think the hybrid cloud is a reality. Our research tells us that 60% of organizations are looking to, or characterize their strategy as being hybrid cloud strategy. But they're really struggling with actually enacting that and doing that in a processed, organized, deliberate way. We got a lot going on in the multi-cloud world, but multi-cloud is often an accident rather than something deliberate. It just turns out that they've got all these assets across all these different-- >> Dave: Multi-vendor, "Oh, I've got all these clouds!" >> That's right, that's right. Again, go back a decade, and how relatively straight forward the data and application environment seemed, right? I mean you had your application, it was probably on-prem, it really on a server that was connected to this bit of tin, and-- >> Little did we know at the time, right? >> Yeah, and fast forward to today, and data is just everywhere. So I think the tailwind for a company like veeAM is that, obviously, there's always going to be a need for backup, but I think that the conversation is evolving from one around data backup into one of data management, because you can only manage the data in your environment if you understand where it is, what its value is, what the potential exposures are, and I think that's why we see a big opportunity in managing data across this much more diverse and broader environment. >> So given that, do you think customers are better able to manage their data environment now than they used to be, or is it actually getting worse because now it's a much more dynamic and disparate environment. People weren't that great at it beforehand, have they gotten better, or not? >> It's hard to generalize. I think, in the main, customers acknowledge that they do a pretty bad job of managing it on a holistic basis. And I think we are seeing many organizations do it on a piece by piece basis. I think things like GDPR have been a wake-up call that, "Hey, your data is your responsibility!" And whether that data is on your facilities or it's in somebody else's, that doesn't matter. It's still your responsibility. So that was kind of a little bit of a wake-up call for organizations, certainly in Europe, and I think we're going to' see that replicated across the region also. >> We had the rise of Ransomware as well, which was actually the best advertisement for backup that you could ever have had. >> No doubt. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> These, we talk about the shared responsibility model, I mean, to your point, Simon, I mean, it's like security, right? I mean, somebody misconfigures an Amazon EC2-- >> Simon: That's right. >> -okay, it's not Amazon, it's the shared responsibility, and the same thing with the GDPR, malware. >> It really is, but I think, when we think about what the major challenges that just about every business faces, it's how do they scale their operations in a way that's going to' allow them to really take advantage of this thing we're calling "Digital Transformation," I know it's an over-used term, but-- >> Dave: But it's real. >> It is real, it is real. And I'll research, we asked a question in a survey recently, which is, "What is your organization's single biggest barrier?" And it's, "We don't respond quickly enough to the business." It's the biggest objective, but it's also the most difficult barrier to overcome. And I think we're only going to start to address this if we can fundamentally have a different look at how we scale operations, and that's across the application estate, across the infrastructure, it's also across data, right? And it's modernized, and it's transforming the way we think about managing data, and it's, we don't want to repeat the mistakes of the past and end up with a zillion silos that all have a person that needs managing that silo, that environment. We've done that. We don't want to, as we move to multi-cloud, and we acknowledge that data and applications are going to' be in a greater diversity of locations, we have to have a model that scales to managing across those environments. And it's that kind of consistency of approach that I think the industry is lacking, but there's definitely an awareness that we need to address though. >> Yeah, so given that there's that awareness and there's a need there for the market, there has been a refresh in data protection in that part of the industry. Nothing much was happening for probably a good 10 years. David LaMein was kind of the last big disrupter that we had in that marketplace. And then it feels like overnight, everything changed. And suddenly there were a whole bunch of competitors all trying to go after this data-protection market, and veeAM being one of them. So with that challenge for customers happening, and this dynamic market, how do you see the market dynamics evolving as we go through what veeAM calls its "Act Two," and people start moving to this hybrid cloud. What does that look like from your research? >> I think from a customer's perspective, it is often actually just perplexing. I mean, where do you start? How do you think about this on a strategic basis? And again, some of our research has pointed out, highlighted that, again, it's kind of obvious, but, how do we get better alignment between IT and the business? And when we asked about that in the context of digital transformation, it was the businesses, it was the respondents that said, "Yes, our IT strategy is being developed in lock-step with the business," right? Those are the companies that feel like they can, that they have a good handle on this digital transformation. Data transformation. And we do see a bit of a, almost kind of a schism opening up. There is a kind of digital leaders, and there are definitely digital laggards that are really, really struggling with this. And I think that, to me, means opportunity. I mean, there's opportunity for vendors to come here, to come in here and address it. I think with data protection specifically, if you'd have said 10 years ago that there was almost kind of a Cambrian explosion of start-ups and new companies in backup recovery, and data protection, DR. That sounded like madness a decade ago. You know, we've seen absolute explosion, huge number of companies coming together, coming to market with real innovation, which ultimately, I think, is going to' be good for customers. I think there's probably too many for the market to sustain at this point, 'cause all these new entrants, none of the incumbents are going away. But I think it's going to' be very much a partner-centric kind of success. There's a realization I think from, certainly from the hyperscale cloud providers that they're not going to be able to do this on their own, right? They're going to' have to work with "legacy" incumbents. These guys definitely have a role to play. I mean, I was just in a session earlier today talking about VTL in the cloud. >> Dave: Yeah. >> I mean (laughing) VTL?! In the cloud?! (laughing) >> Legacy processes, they're hard to kill. >> But the more this evolves, the more it seems like the public cloud is starting to resemble kind of the on-prem world in some ways. >> Well that's interesting. You know I was in London a couple of weeks ago for the AWS summit and Matt Garman, who's the AWS exec, I think he's the guy who first launched EC2, he was the product manager at the time. Now he's the senior executive. He said, "We believe the vast majority of customers will eventually migrate all workloads into the cloud." And then it was, "But," and this is the "but" that they wouldn't have acknowledged two years ago, we realize that its a hybrid world-- >> We can't do this ourselves. >> And then they talked about snowball, and outpost, and all these other things that they're doing. And Microsoft has always had a different posture. Of course it has a huge on-premise state. But let's talk a little bit about the horses on the track. So you were mentioning some of the legacy backup guys, all the start-ups coming in. There's been over a billion and a half raised for data protection. So you've got Veritas, Dell EMC, IBM with its Tivoli business, it's done some stuff with Catalogic. And then you've got Cohesity and Rubrik trying to get escape velocity, so they got tons of cash, having big parties, trying to replicate that marketing momentum. And you've got veeAM, has, to your point, Simon, built a billion dollar software business, okay. And is now saying, "Okay, we're going into the next wave." >> And profitable! I was speaking with Ratmir this morning, and they were actually cash-flow positive and on gap-basis as well, they're making money! >> There's nothing more atypical than-- >> I know! >> --a start-up type company that's making money. >> And you've got specialists. You've got Drover in there and Zerto-- >> Simon: Yeah, you've got Zerto, you got, >> --you know, a lot of guys, Amantis just got taken out by Cohesity, so. How do you guys see that competitive market shaking out, Dave Russel did the bubble chart, Ratmir showed it yesterday, 15 billion. Is the tam big enough to support all these guys? What do they have to do to get return for their investors? We're talking IPO's in the future before the window closes. It's getting hairy. >> It is, and you know, certainly some of those incumbents are not without having their challenges. I think it's incumbent on them to listen to what customers are asking for. Customers are moving to the cloud, right? They're going to' do that with or without the legacy guys. So they have to get on-board with that and help manage that process for customers. I think what I like about some of the newer guys, the Rubrik's, the Cohesity's, is they are talking about this bigger picture, this issue that, we said at the start, that many organizations acknowledges is a real challenge, and that's having an overall view into their data estate, their data assets. But for many different reasons, it's always been very, very difficult to crack that on a holistic basis. These guys are putting together some compelling stories, some compelling products to do that, and customers are definitely buying it. Now it's not on the scale that they're buying Veeam on a very tactical basis, so I think the challenge for Veeam is to evolve their own proposition from being pretty tactical, important, absolutely, but to kind of move up the value chain from there. And I think we are starting to see many examples of how that is coming into play with some of the announcements we've had at the show today. >> Yeah, I mean, to your point. A billion dollars profitable, 350,000 customers, and a modern sort of approach. >> Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. We've heard simplicity so many times over the last couple of days, but to me when we talk about if the challenge is operational scale, you can't do that without simplicity. And I think the fact that they acknowledge that from a very early date, we speak to a lot of, you know, customers overall, but lots of veeAM customers. Every single one says, "I love the simplicity." It works, it just works. You know, it's these kinds of things that they really do matter, because, not just because it just sounds great, but actually it lets, it either lets the administrator do other things, it's freeing up their time, or it allows a different part, maybe a less experienced or different type of professional to come in and manage the environment and not have to have a PhD in storage and backup and all those things that made this such a human capital-intensive process in the past. >> Easy and simple, they're easy, things to claim, and many companies actually try to claim that they're either easy or simple. It's really difficult to actually deliver on. >> That's right. >> But when you have customers coming back to you and telling you, "You are simple and easy to use," That's when you know that you've got it right. >> What I like about veeAM's messaging is, I've heard it a lot this week, is it's, start with backup. It actually is all about the backup, and you don't hear that from a lot of the upstarts, they're like, "No, no, no, backup. It's all about the data management." It's this sort of vision, these guys used the term "aspirational," almost as a pejorative. >> Right. >> So it's kind of interesting to see that competitive battle and then you've got the legacy guys trying to hang onto their install base, maybe making some announcements, I mean, Dell EMC just made a bunch of announcements, and kind of came out and admitted, "Hey, we took our eye off the ball." Obviously Veritas has a huge install base that everybody's trying to attack. IBM with Tivoli. >> There's a new CEO at Commvault. >> Yeah, and Commvault. We, I don't want to leave them out of the equation, right? They're doing their enterprise piece. And they've always had a little different angle on this space, so, there's a lot of action going on here. 15 billion, half of that is probably backup. >> The challenge is that this isn't a homogenous market, right? >> Dave: Right, very fragmented. >> There are just so many different things that we need to protect. There are so many different ways we can protect them, that soon just started getting into the details, that's when it starts, the market starts to stratify. >> And with cloud and new programming-- >> And people keep creating new ones, you know, object storage comes up, and then we've got no sequel databases that are now happening. >> Microservices, kubernetes, protection-- >> The whole container thing which we haven't really heard an awful lot about this week, I think. I mean, I'm looking forward to seein' how veeAM's story evolves there, but if we do accept that containers, kubernetes is going to be the new middleware that connects a new breed of infrastructure to a new application paradigm, if you like, then that's going to' need protecting. So I think we talk about it, backup, as being tactical, but actually it is a start of a journey, and also, I think one thing that's come out from this last couple of days is the importance of DR, and that's absolutely reflected in our research when we ask about, "What are big challenges in the storage and data arena, DR is a top two challenge every single time. It's too expensive. It's too difficult to run, to build, to test. I've been hearing that for 15, 20 years, right? And we're still not there. >> You can't automate the testing, it's too dangerous to fail over and fail back, so we don't do it, and we don't test it, so we clearly haven't cracked this one as an industry, and there is massive latent demand, I think, and I think, as we think, I mean who can tolerate any sort of down time for any sort of application, right? It just becomes a prerequisite to have applications always on-line. You know, that prerequisite for effective DR is going to' continue. >> Okay, guys, we got to' go. Thanks very much, Simon, for coming on theCUBE. >> Simon: Hey, great! Great to be here! >> Great to have you. All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be right back with our next guest, you're watching theCUBE, live, from veeAMON, 2019, Miami. We'll be right back. (theme music)

>> Live, from Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE! Covering DevNet Create 2019, brought to you by Cisco. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE, Lisa Martin with John Furrier covering day two of Cisco DevNet Create 2019, and guess who we're here with? Susie Wee SVP and CTO of Cisco DevNet. Susie thank you so much for having theCUBE here and for joining John and me today. >> Oh thank you for being here. >> So this event, there were so many bodies in here yesterday, it was pretty toasty, it's getting toasty now, this is the third DevNet Create, this community John and I have been hearing that and feeling it and seeing it, see it, learn it, code it, kind of all on your theme there the last day and a half. This is a really inspiring, really national sharing community that you guys have built here. >> It is, it's amazing, I mean just the energy here as you bring together folks. Everybody wants to learn, there's so many new technologies out there, but new technologies that can turn into business advantage, and the attendees here they all feel it, and it's a different mixture of people because there's app developers, there's infrastructure and networkers, and just bringing these folks together to see what they can achieve is amazing. So that's the energy that you can really feel here. >> And the thing that's interesting and that I'd like to perspective on where this all started from, is DevNet Create is interesting, you know Amazon's Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon Web Services, uses the term builders. So you hear builders, maker culture, create. But creation is a critical part of your ethos here, and with cloud computing, Microsoft's earnings came out they were a trillion dollar market cap now, Amazon crushes their earnings again, you're seeing what cloud is doing that's enabling these creators, a new class of developer, but it's not like a new breed, it's just a new kind of orientation. This is part of your vision to share the story. >> Well and kind of the whole thing is that, you know I'm all about innovation and creation. And I believe that people just want to create. My four year old, she just wants to create. It's just in people's blood, but to now get out there and to do it, you need a catalyst. You can't just sit in a room and then create, and sometimes it's about how you bring new fields together, how you bring new technologies together, how you bring non-technologies together, how you just bring different types of people and perspectives together, and that's really what DevNet Create is all about. So, we started DevNet five years ago, just with the idea that the network is going become programmable. The infrastructure is going to provide more resources, and it's going to be programmable and provide more power to applications, so from then to now, last summer we hit half a million developers, now we're at 590 thousand developser, and we're growing. >> Well we're lucky to be part of it and thank you for including theCUBE in DevNet Create, and bringing something to the DevNet community. It's been fun and inspirational, but to be practical in the industry, you need to have a wind at your back, you need to have a wave to ride on, and creation is also about momentum. And if you look at the marketplace today, there's some big waves happening. Cloud computing is obvious, one everyone looks at, that's already changed the nature of companies, Cisco's multi-cloud looking at a bigger vision there. But new waves are coming, I mean Wifi Six is a game changer, you've got 5G. So you talked about this in the keynote, I want you to take a minute to explain that the big waves that you outlined, because with big waves there's more fun, there's more creation. There's wealth creation, there's economic vitalizations, a new vibe. Share the waves. >> Inside of the whole thing is that we say there's the infrastructure. You get your networking, you get your compute, it evolves to cloud computing and all of that, but on top of that are these applications. And this amazing set of applications, and we know that those are creating entirely new and disruptive businesses and business models, and there's a lot of growth in all of that. Now traditionally what happens is that with every wave of infrastructure advancement, comes a new set of applications and businesses, so going back to our olden days but, there was a time where you started to get a converged IP network, or you put data and voice together on an IP network, and then came voice over IP. Then came cloud computing. And you can do internet search, and you know, we're old enough to remember before then. Then you got 3G, and instead of just having the cell phone, you could do mobile apps on cell phones, so you had mobile apps. And then with 4G, you could do mobile video, and now you just expect it. Now you could think, okay the infrastructure is done, but no there's more, so some of the things that are happening right now that's really exciting is that, is I kind of talked about it in three areas. In networking we a have a couple really big things going on, which is Wifi Six and 5G. And so there's a whole site and we'll talk more about that. In computing there's the fact that actually GPU's are everywhere, and with that you can do AIML everywhere. So AI and machine learning. And then the third one is just an advancement in architecture. We knew that we'd move to mobile, we knew that we moved to compute, but now what becomes real is the edge. Edge computing. And so when you bring these things together you have new capabilities in network with Wifi Six and 5G, you have new capabilities in computing because GPU's are everywhere so you can do AI and ML, and then you actually have a spot at the edge where you can do edge processing, and then all of a sudden there's this whole new world of applications just waiting to be built, and we want to let developers know that. Because you kind of develop and you build from what you know, like oh this is just how good I can do, but there's a whole new capability coming. >> Well first of all, let's unpack those talk chats, because one of the things that I, as an entrepreneur, you know we've always talked about this, the creativity that comes from entrepreneurial thinking, whether your a true entrepreneur starting a company, or within a company doing that inside a company, takes creative juices, you got to have that catalyst as you mentioned, but also you got to imagine new ideas, right. And so by enabling, say Wifi for instance, everyone knows what Wifi is, but when you think about the new advances of Wifi and having connectivity with wireless and wired networks, with new data access, it just opens up this creative outlet. This is going to be the tsunami or the renaissance of applications. And you've been talking about it. >> It is, it is. And so like if we kind of geek out, because I was working on HD TV before it really became HD TV and their doing things like OFDM, and you know, we're so excited, spread spectrum technologies, but right now with Wifi Six, we can really geek out again. So OFDM is moving to OFDMA, OFDM multiple access. That means like, an access point usually talks to one client at a time, but now it can split up and talk to multiple clients at a time. And with that you can actually get much higher capacity, right so you can actually really use your kind of, network more efficiently, and then you can actually now also do scheduling. And then you can actually guarantee that a client is going to be scheduled in and get transmissions. That changes what you can do with Wifi and the way you think about it. And then there's this power savings, because now we can tell a device the time to wake up, so you kind of sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep, here's your target wake up time. Sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep, here's your target wake up time, that extends battery life, so you can have sensors that'll be out there for one year, five years, ten years, doing its thing. And so that takes all those IoT applications you've always wanted to build, but makes them real. Because someone has to go up and install that sensor, and the battery life matters. >> And so the second wave is the GPU anywhere which I like, because when you think of GPUS, Nvidia, you're thinking of graphics, you're thinking of gaming, but it's actually a processor for machine learning, so what are your thoughts on this because if you put GPUs in devices everywhere, and the data that you're now accessing across the network brings more intelligence. What's the impact of this GPU anywhere? Is it just IoT, is it just applications, what's the net net? >> So kind of, the most important thing about it is that before, you kind of needed to have a PhD to do AI and machine learning, right? And we have friends who are experts at that and they're continuing to push the envelope in there. I was just back at MIT and just the advances in AL and ML is amazing. But the other thing that's happening is that this is just getting wrapped up so developers can just use it. So you can actually have a TensorFlow.js library that'll just sit on your mobile device. You can actually just using your browser, you can actually write a web app that uses that and then uses the GPU, which just means right there you can write a little web app, with like five lines of code, you can say, find all the people in this picture. Find the bottles in this picture. Right so just be like, doing that on the fly, and you don't have to have a PhD in machine learning, you can actually, developers can just use this capability. And so that's kind of what unlocks it, is just because it's accessible to everyone and now you'll get that mixed wave of innovation when people can just use it and find the right applications for it. >> So looking at these three big changes that you've talked about, network, compute, architectural, did you leverage these big waves to design this years Create? Because we're hearing all about the three technologies tracks. Tell us a little bit about that. >> It is, well so first of all we have Wifi Six here, live, and people know there's the idea of it, we've done some performance tests around it and we're like it screams. You know, it just, it really does scream, and you're used to not counting on that, right? And so it opened up peoples' eyes and they're thinking differently now about what they can do here. >> What sort of reactions of the geeks at Cisco when they look at the data of Wifi Six, what's some of the anecdotal reactions that they're saying? >> People are surprised, cause everybody's kind of cynical about it. Cause, quite honestly, even getting ready for it, it just like guys we're going to jump on Wifi Six. And they're like eh, yeah, well, whatever. And then one of my guys Oshitosha went off and did the speed test and he started working with it and he came back into my office, his eyes were popped out of his head, (gasp), that's fast. >> And you showed that yesterday, all the cameras came in like, whoa! >> Because you don't have that expectation, but once you know it, it's going to really unleash this whole new set of things. There's actually something else interesting we did with the edge processing with the GPUs which is the idea of edge computing, not a new idea, the reality of it, is still coming into play. Now what happens is Cisco just announced some new products. These industrial routers, it's an industrial gateway, it means that you can like put it up on the telephone pole, you can put it into a manufacturing plant, you know at high temperatures, and it's the gateway that will connect all of your devices and senors, and be the networking conduit to get everything back. So that's an awesome product, the mass product actually hosts applications. And what matters is the deployment of these infrastructures, right? So Cisco's partners will get out there, they're going to sell and kind of install this networking equipment in manufacturing companies, but now it can host applications so developers can actually reach it. And so now that's a place for developers, but we're doing something new here, which is that we have a prototype of taking that product, we have a prototype GPU, a Nvidia Jetson that we've put on top of it, and we're letting developers hack at it. And say, would you use this? Like, tell us some of your best ideas, try it out. Because we still need to figure out the market and what's there, and we're doing it with developers. >> And where do they go with the creativity there? Because obviously one's a gateway so they're used to gateways, and they understand edge devices. What are some of the ideas that are going to come out of hacking a GPU? Is it running data analytics on the edge? Is it hosting an application and managing edge devices themselves? What are some of the cool things? >> I mean things like video sensing. So now like at your edge you have lots of cameras and because you can do GPU processing, you can actually take these multi-camera inputs, do video sensing algorithms, you know things that you kind of dreamed about before, but now just doing that for real. You know, finding construction workers, finding the hard hats, in the images to make sure that you can actually have people be safe. One thing that we know about AI and machine learning, is like a lot of times people say, okay I'm going to hire a data scientist, a data scientist comes in, and they can't really get the data. Like they don't have anything to work on until there's a good data set to work on. Well actually as you connect up these environments, that's one data set coming in. So you connect up like transportation systems, like SCADA, like utilities protocols, you're actually talking to manufacturing equipment. >> Real time data from traffic, Teslas. >> Exactly. And so that stuff comes in, but then you need to kind of munch on that data to know, when should I be looking, how can I get it into a form that I can do some AI and machine learning on it. >> So new use cases, you expect new use cases to emerge? >> They are, and it's really cool because there was a time when there was all of this stuff you could do on the web, and in the cloud, and with our applications, but it's coming back to the physical world. >> And that's what you mean by the edge, is then this architectural thing, that's really the edge. The new architecture of having these kinds of capabilities is going to create sets of applications that we've never seen before. New startups, new applications. >> It is and really the kind of thing with DevNet Create is bringing in the community of people who do install infrastructure, knowing that this infrastructure is becoming programmable, and having that able to host the applications and the innovations that are coming from the developers, it's like, it just unlocks entirely new business models. And I think here these two communities are meeting and mixing, and I think that's the energy that we're seeing out here. Because they didn't expect to talk to each other. When we started DevNet Create, we knew that it was coming, we didn't know how the people would mix, and this has evolved to where people are mixing in entirely new ways and making connections, and someone who's written an app is like, oh, you're a partner, you can deploy this in all different countries, that's a new kind of deployment model for my app. >> We talked a little bit about that yesterday, with our guest as well as Mandy, and you've got these kind of different worlds colliding, but one of the things that John pointed out, is that this is not a marketing driven event, this is not for lead generation, this is a truly collaborative event, and you're getting clearly developers and infrastructure guys and girls from clearly, very probably, computing companies who are sharing. So I can imagine the cultural change that this can bring to, born in the cloud, traditional enterprise, maybe something that wasn't originally planned, but I can just imagine these worlds colliding and seeing how much better they can work together. >> And that is something that with DevNet, if you even go to the world of networking and IT and you know, just enterprises, there's a new model. So things become programmable, people's biggest problem is automation, doing things at scale, like how do I go ahead and deploy my networks across all these sites around the world? You can automate that. How do I take machinery and get business insights from that so I can actually use it for more, you know, you want to do that in software. And so you have to change your mindset cause then it is about collaboration, it's about sharing software and everyone knows that they can get there faster by sharing code and ending up with a code repository, we have code exchange, that we've created in DevNet, we've just opened it up last year, we now have over 400 repos, we just crossed over 400 on there. >> You guys are changing the way people are doing work within your own community, both DevNet and DevNet Create, bringing those worlds together. And it's working, it's magical so congratulations on all the success you've had. I got to ask you about your journey because we've talked years before you even joined Cisco and we've been following and talking to you since you've been here, and I was saying on our opening yesterday, Cisco as a company is like a big aircraft carrier, it's making the big move right, and you're seeing Chuck Robinson, the CEO, cloud, everything has APIs on, every portfolio project got APIs, so he's the pulling company into telemove, which is let's get cloudified, let's figure out our role in cloud computing and beyond, and you're mentioning some of those things, as you continue to show progress in the growth of DevNet and the community, it's changing Cisco. And we're seeing as we cover with theCUBE, and Chuck's called you out publicly and said Susie, great job, so this is a recognition that DevNet and the work that you and your team are doing is changing the face of Cisco internally and externally. How is that going, as the battleship starts to move, and by the way, data center is still more important than ever before with fibrated multicloud, things are lining up for Cisco, and you're a big part of it. What's going on in the company, and what's Chuck Robinson saying to you in your meetings with him, like hey, good job, or let's double down. >> Yeah, no Chuck is an amazing leader. And Chuck completely understands the vision, and that's why he's been supporting DevNet. So he's been supporting DevNet, not just because oh, he likes Susie or anything like that, it's because he understands the importance of programmability he understands what it means for starting new businesses and creating new business models. What it means for the ecosystem to grow into it, what that opportunity is. So he's always understood it, and I'm super lucky because he's been supporting these efforts. But now what's happening is of course he wants more. And I just presented to Chuck and his executive leadership team last week, about the plans that we have going forward. We've actually just kind of, what I would say is that, we've done the MVP of DevNet, so I know that you know, we've got the half a million members, actually almost 600 thousand >> Product market fit, it's all there >> We know have like, real assets, we have a real community, we have companies that are changing how they work, using our assets and really forming in this community, and now to get it to the next level, he's actually really kind of, sponsoring and working with us to develop it to the next level. And really the team is all coming together. The engineering team, the customer experience teams, sales and marketing, and then how we work externally with all of our communities. And so we're really growing into the next level. >> And you've got a great team, you know we've worked with all of you team, a lot of your team, but one of things that I like about what you've done here, is that, and you said it yesterday on stage at closing keynote, you feel like a star, you used the word MVP, minimum viable product. That's a startup word. So you have this startup culture, and you're in a big company so it's working. Is it contagious, are people, are there antibodies coming at you, are there people joining you, what's going on because how do you keep that startup vibe going. >> Yeah, I think that I'm just very fortunate because my team all has that attitude, they're very externally driven, so they're like, how do I help our developers, how do we help our community, how do bring them along, and we totally drive ourselves by that. And then we're constantly asking them how can we help you more, what do you want from us, and they say if we're doing something that's not useful to you, tell us now so we can stop, so we can build something else. And so we continue to evolve. And so we actually listen and then we really figure out how to go to that next level. Now what's really fun is that also though, we work with all of the other organizations, right, so you know I'm not going to replicate the sales force, we work with them, I'm not going to replicate the SEs that are out on the field. They're using DevNet, and they're running their own DevNet express events in their countries for their partners and customers. So we've really built out, really collaboratively and we've gotten so much support. And the first days, everyone was like, hey, guys you have a software strategy, you need to look at developers, you need APIs, and they're like nice job Susie, yes. Keep on going. >> You're bringing the Dev Ops ethos to the culture. DevNet's an API to all the other organizations. >> Well and now that we are where we are, it's just, it's the partnerships like our product teams are investing and improving their APIs. We advocate for the developers viewpoint into those, and it's a collaboration. Like so I don't make the products, our product teams make the products. I don't sell the products, our sales team sells the products. Right, so we've really brought together the forces and we're fortunate because everyone is joining in. >> Well it sounds to me like what DevNet is doing, is really driving this organic cultural evolution within Cisco. Is it, would you say, and maybe I'm making a leap here, it sounds to me, like what I've seen, and this is my first DevNet as well, is that DevNet seems to be an accelerator of Cisco's evolution. >> I would it's an accelerator, and you know, what I want to say is that we have great efforts going on across the company, and people are trying to figure it out. So I can't say I'm the one driving it, that would just be too much to say. But we are trying to accelerate each other's efforts and now that we've grown a community, we've provided a platform. Like, we do get more than a million eyeballs a month onto our site. And we use that as a channel, so we really working to accelerate and kind of catalyze each other's efforts. >> And if you step out and zoom out, you can see how it all hangs together. You've got APIs in all the products, so that's an enabler. You have developer onboarding of new kinds of customers and existing ones melting together, kind of in the same melting pot of developers, and you got the cloud wave behind you, and Ad Gen AI. And then you can see Cisco becoming multicloud, it's almost like it's feeding and turning in the right spot, where, I mean you don't have a cloud, but I mean you have connectivity, you have data, you have Dev Ops, Net Dev, so it seems like a nice positioning for the future. But you have all this other revenue and customers, so it's going to take some time. >> We have great products. Our products five years ago, we had handful of products with APIs. Now, our whole portfolio is programmable. So that's not my efforts, those are the product teams building great products, and entering this world of programmability. We're bringing in the community and giving them the tools so they can use them, right? So otherwise you can't just make a product and have it sit there, you need to help it come along. >> Okay, what was your presentation to Chuck? What's the vision? Where do you go next? You've got some great momentum, congratulations on the success, we love being a part of this, a lot of action. It's very inspiring and intoxicating at the same time, what's next, what's the vision? >> Yeah, so really if we, and I love the way that we've built up DevNet, is because we started with our developers, and the communities that needed to become developers, or power users of software. So, we've done the technical enablement, like we have documented APIs, we have learning labs, we have sandboxes so people can just code. So we've really been focusing on enabling them and providing all that technical enablement. And now what happens is people are asking us, how do I make this real, how do I spread this across my organization, how do I bring these solutions to my customers and then to the world? And in order to do that I need to change how I do manufacturing, in order to do this, I need to change how we build solutions, and so help us with that fuller solution, so we're really stepping up to go beyond the technical enablement, to just bringing it to reality, and to real solutions that are in operational environments, and so it's just really exciting to be working together on all that. And then we'll have a bunch more new stuff coming that we'll talk about at Cisco Live. >> And you have a great party at Cisco Live, you also have those social club event, you got to keep that going, right? >> Of course, we'll keep the social club going and we'll have a bunch of new things to announce at Cisco Live as well. >> It's starting in just a few weeks from now, so last question, your takeaway from this, some of the anecdotes that you've heard the last day and a half of DevNet Create 3. >> Yeah, so you know, kind of the vision that we had set forward. And it's one that we've been thinking about it, it's just that the infrastructure really enables a new set of applications and business models. And we had the idea of it, but again with these advances that we talked about, with Wifi Six and 5G, with GPUs enabling AI and machine learning, and with edge computing, is that people get it. And people know that it's not like some day you will have this, and some day you will have that, which I've been in research, I know that view. But it's actually like right here and right now. >> Making it real. >> Making it real, and it's available for people to use, like this next one to two years is going to be super exciting for the industry, cause it's not just theoretical, it's not just what it could do, but there's real goals that are right out there for people to develop exciting new things. >> I wish I was younger, I wish I was in my 20s, I mean like. >> It's okay, we take old people and young people all together, diversity, yes. >> More inclusion, young and old. It's so exciting because it's such an enablement, and knowing what's the megatrends that are the real waves, it's actually real, it's happening. >> And I actually want to, while we do talk about diversity and inclusion and enablement, what's really exciting is I just brought us that, we have some of our partners who are transforming themselves, and we actually have some women in tech initiatives that have started out. >> I love that, tell us about it. >> Okay so, Presidio, Verizon, they've invested in helping the women in their organizations, well they're helping everybody evolve to embrace programmability and automation to understand the application, you know the opportunities there. So they are fully, kind of, taking this paradigm and transforming their workforces to embrace it. But in addition we've partnered to also provide extra support, and call out for the women who are making the journey, and who have to, you know, face maybe some additional challenges, or just ensuring that they have the opportunity and they get the visibility, and they've both sponsored, so Presidio, Verizon, have both sponsored bringing some of their women to DevNet Create. >> I loved how you brought them on stage this morning, without telling them. They endeavor you, and you just had this genuinely enormous smile of pride. >> I'm so proud of them. >> And you should be. But that's amazing that Cisco and DevNet is also making that investment in women in technology. >> And we're doing it together with them and I'm just proud of what their doing, and this is the workforce. You saw the women up on stage if you guys watched the keynote, you'll see that it's out there. These are the people you want to hire, and why would you not use that workforce. >> Exactly, why would you not? >> And get them all young too, like you mentioned your daughter, when she starts putting the Meraki switch at home, you know you've made it. She's almost ready. >> Yes she's handling a computer for me already, she's like mommy you have two, how come I don't have one? >> She says mommy why are you using command line? >> That's next! Susie, you're an inspiration, an inspirational female in technology, we all often gravitate towards Sheryl Sandberg. I think we should start including Susie Wee in that. Thank you so much, >> No thank you very much. For having us at DevNet, it's been a pleasure to meet you, and have the chance to interview you, and we can't wait to see where do you go from here. >> We will continue to change the world together, thank you. >> I love it. Awesome. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live, from Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone live here in San Francisco California Moscone West is the cubes live coverage of Red Hat Summer 2018 I'm John furry and my co-host John Troyer our next guest is Denise Dumas vice president software engineering operating system group the Red Hat welcome back to the cube good to see you thank you so much great to be here with you so operating systems Linux the base base with everything yeah now you got all those other goodness going on you have some acquisitions permit bit we were just talking about before he came on a lot of action going on yeah what's new well you know you think that the world of operating systems would be boring but honest to god it is so not especially now right because there is a whole generation of change going on in the hardware and when the hardware changes the operating system has got to change to keep up right you look at the stuff that's going on with GPUs with FPGA right I mean and that's just like tip of the iceberg yeah and everything has to be programmable so you need software to keep track of it so it's not just the patches you gotta keep on top of the DevOps automations a big part of it and security models are changing with the cloud there's no perimeter so you have to have maybe chip level encryption os the way up this is challenging so what is it what's the impact to Red Hat as these new things come on because you know you got you know fishing out there sphere fishing is a big problem you got to handle it all how do you guys handle all the security challenges well you know it's it's actually interesting because rel is the base the core of Red Hat's product line which means that we provide the firm underpinning for everything else in the portfolio so we have the FIP certification we're doing the Common Criteria certification we provide the reliable crypto that everybody else can just expect to have in their world and we have to be the really firm basis for everything that layers on top and it's really great to have the additional products in the portfolio working very closely with us to make sure that we can be end-to-end secure end-to-end compliant and that we're looking at the bigger problems because it's not about the operating system it's about the infrastructure and what you're going to run on top of it right a lot of people have been saying security oh it's hard to do security open source is actually a problem for security and then the world shifts back and says wait a minute open source is better to attack security problem because it's out more people working on it versus the human problem of having proprietary so obviously open source is a good thing - security what's the modern approach that you see now that that that you guys are watching and building around that because that's the number one question that coot at kubernetes con we saw a great thing do some kubernetes we saw is do service meshes but Security's got to be thought of on the front end of all the application developers that means it's on you put it into the OS and it's a different world right because the application developers are not accustomed to having to deal with that because that was always the job of the IT guys right that was a problem for the infrastructure to deal with and so clearly we have to provide better security better better tooling available to them but the operations guys right they still they need help in this new world as well because suddenly there's this explosion of containers in their environment and who knows what's in those containers right we've got to have the ability to scan the containers and make sure that they get patched regularly right so it's just it's a whole different set of problems but it all starts with making sure it's secure underneath all the rest of it well so that's that brings up the console of this concept of layers right there's all the operational things there's the apps and the containers and then you know rail is running underneath that that's the hardware and the micro code and all the rest of the stuff so this year we the whole entire IT industry - the kind of a gasp with with the meltdown inspector problems that that surfaced or you know I guess it was in January I think yeah when they were Republican what that was that was how the colonel team spent their Christmas vacation oh my goodness yeah I the colonel team the performance team the security team the virtualization team all those guys so Red Hat shuts down for a week at Christmastime if they didn't yeah that was exciting I mean we've been trained security is one of these things but there's another one coming because cyber attacks are there what's that what's the viewpoint how do you keep on how do you how do you keep on top of it yeah well you know we have a fabulous security team so if you happen to get up to the second floor go talk with chrome Chris Robinson his guys they monitor what's going on in the upstreams they work with mitre they work with the organization's right and when they discover that something is in the wind they come to us and disclose people as needed and then we get to go and figure out how we're gonna get fixes in usually a lot of this stuff happens as you know under embargo so we really we can't talk about it that's a real problem if a lot of the upstream hasn't been read in right so like for instance with meltdown inspector a lot of that was going on not so much in the upstream so there were kind of divergent patches that we got to bring back together that was really we knew that well we had a really strong suspicion that the embargo was gonna break early there that's why my guys were over Christmas right they had to have something ready secure for when it broke and then we could worry about the performance afterwards yeah right and then you had to roll that out into the entire customer base there's some fairly standard mechanisms was there anything special with that because it was fairly high priority I suppose yeah well I mean anything like that we make available a synchronously cuz we want to have it available that the day that that embargo goes public right because that's when we're gonna be getting the phone calls that's when people say oh my god now what do I do but if but the hard part with this one was that you had to have the microcode as well right but we had to do a lot of Education because this was this the side channel attacks it's just a different way of thinking right it's not so much a flaw in the code as in the overall hardware architecture that we get to deal with that stuff what did you learn what's the learnings that were magnifying we have to be as transparent as we can possibly be because security researchers are going to keep on looking for this kind of flaw and we you know we just have to be able to work as much in the open as we can but we also have to have an education function right this is not an area of core expertise for a lot of people who are working in databases right or who are who are designing Java apps and yet we have to be able to explain to them why there's a performance impact on some of the stuff that they're doing and how we can work together to try to get back some of that performance over time no meltdown inspector that's kind of off my radar now but I don't think we're completely out of it right you people have had to patch and reboot and and update but it sounds like we're not I don't think we're at 100% for sure of all systems yeah well you know IT infrastructure right there's your window in which you can actually afford to reboot your systems and I think a lot of those are very tightly scheduled I mean we have customers who get you know ten minutes a year yeah up times of years and years I mean old rebooting is kind of old fashioned at this point yeah really right as it should be as it should be but but when it's the minor code you're kind of stuck yeah I mean that's a hardware thing getting back to the hardware still hardware's even though cloud is extracting away the complexities Hardware still is out there so you never gonna go away for you and as you said it's changing look at the GPU side and you got all kinds of new things coming on the horizon like blockchain and decentralized infrastructure that's encrypted amen right so you know this is you know systems level code mm-hmm with software guys who don't know micro code mm-hmm so you guys got to be on top of it so so I guess the big question is is that operating system that you guys have is very reliable and the support is phenomenal use of industries how do you take the support and the engineering in rel and operating systems and bring that operate system mindset to the next level up as you move up the stack kubernetes new OpenStack as well openshift yeah and apps they all want the same reliability you all want the same kind of robustness nature of an ecosystem at the same time more people are being certified yeah so you have a balance of growth and reliability how do you how do you guys see that and it's also speed and time to market right which is the other factor because there's so much pressure on any emerging technology to get the features out there that you end up carrying the technical debt right or you end up not being able to be as hardened as you might like to be the instant that you go out the door and so it's always gonna be a balancing act and a trade-off so you I know you guys were just talking with Mark Oh bill Peter and he was probably talking about how we're trying to focus on use cases right we need to understand the use cases that our customers have and now those are clearly across the entire product portfolio right but those are the test scenarios that I need to get in flight and those are also the the paths that I need to make sure we've optimized for right and so it's a partnership with the rest of the products in the portfolio and we really do a lot to work together as tightly as we can which is one of the benefits of being at the core right I'm working with everybody yeah and you got the instrumentation too so the other theme yeah the automation big time theme here is breaking down the two of real granular level sets of services which actually is a good thing because if you can instrument it then it's just easy to manage because then he can isolate things so I mean this is a good thing in the OS people love this because you can see couple and make things work well but the instrumentation if you have the API API and you need the instrumentation and looking in so how is that created a challenge because it's all those great for Red Hat's business and then you see in the the forecast and the analysts are seeing the growth you guys are seeing the successes but it makes your job harder a bit that one's a harder but I mean it's you know you get it right more code and make glue layers of abstraction layers yeah but I wouldn't want it to be boring well I do want it to I want it to be boring for our customers I want our customers to just be able to pick up and no drum and exciting homes not ringing with no spectra again it's working like a charm no problem yeah drama llama does not live here yeah yeah that's an interesting point though just a lot of talk about the whole Red Hat stack here right and you got as we've said you the base of it where does where does Linux where is this Linux and especially rail go from here what are you looking at that over the next few years some different technologies you're looking to pull it etc mm-hmm there's always I mean we have to keep up with the hardware advances clearly right but then there's let's oh look at our permaban what a great ad right so perma bit for people who don't know they do a video virtual data optimizer so they do D dupe and compression on the fly on the path to the disk and with rail 75 as part of your subscription you get so we buy we buy companies and we open-source their soft code side their software and we make it available to you as part of your subscription right how good is that so is when you deploy 75 in your environment now suddenly you're gonna need a whole lot less storage right depending on of course it depends upon your data footprint right but but you might find that you're able to shrink the amount of all that expensive storage and expensive cloud storage particularly that you need significantly and you get the compression right was avenge compression was very popular we know we followed in fallen permit bit question on permit bit for you was that open source was that they build their front open stores because now and are you guys open sourcing that that's okay so you have to go gain and and then open it up and do a review and clean it up and yeah yeah and we have to help them get it into an upstream right so they actually they were fabulous the perma because they have been so fabulous to work with best acquisition ever seems to be pretty good at acquiring companies and incorporating their tacit that seems to be part of the culture here yeah that's cuz we're not you know people think we're like big and scary right I'll tell you I have worked for companies that are big and scary Red Hat is not it we're really open and it's really in many ways in engineering culture which is wonderful it's a great fit if you happen to be from a startup culture because we don't overwhelm you with process right I mean we a lot of smart people again I can attest to my interactions over the years smart people very humble a lot of systems people to which is cooperating system hello the world's turning into an operating system good for that but humble and plays the long game you guys I've been you deserve credit for that and that's that's attracting and reason why you successful but you know the thing is we really believe in our core values right we really truly honest-to-god believe in open source and the power that it has to change the world that you know you say oh yeah sure right she's part of the management change she's gonna see him anyway yeah but you guys are growing so I mean over the years again since we started the cube nine years ago we've watched red add just in that time span grow significantly I'll see it's well documented an alternative to the other proprietary os's second-tier citizen now running the world the first tier great job so the youth success business model of open source is now mainstream but you got to onboard more people more ecosystem partners in a really dynamic big wave of innovation coming yeah how do you maintain the recruiting how do you get the great people how do you preserve the culture I'm sure these are questions how do you the more inclusion and diversity questions this is all happening right they're gonna have to catch him at nine years old and grown I mean although honest to god we do a lot of university outreach right if you look in the Czech Republic for instance we have a huge operation in Brno which is the second largest city there and we are so tied in to the university system we bring in lots and lots and lots of interns and it's wonderful right because we want to teach people about open-source we find people who have passion projects and we bring them in this is this is our world right we don't we want non-traditional people as well as traditional computer science majors open-source is a great leveler your CV is online I mean imagine right you're you want to change careers you want a new life you love to code you've been working on writing games in your in your spare time you are our people that's the code your code is who you are your code is it's your CV well this is what Oh doing your things on the open means and also it's been great for your business and we had gym writers on earlier there's no a/b testing they just go into the community and find out what's they want and they just that's the a B C's e testing it's just right there you guys do the due diligence sometimes make big time real fun decisions on features based upon what is in demand practically speaking not just focusing on the new tech that's a good business model we hope so cuz you know I mean as as one of our former CFO I said there are a lot of people a lot of Associates at Red Hat who are dependent on Red Hat for a paycheck and it's very important to us that we remain profitable stable and and really good for our people right we've got a lot of people that we need to take care of in the time it's a good place to be in the timing spray with kubernetes and containers we're taking it up a notch and bringing that extensibility you know just beyond stand-alone Linux so congratulations Denise thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective as always we love these conversations in the cube talk and everything from operating systems to core OS and kubernetes and culture as the cue here out in the open on the floor at Moscone West John Troy yer stay with us we'll be back with more day two of three days of live coverage on the cube net we'll be right back

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCube, covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas, everybody. We're here at the Mandalay Bay. This is theCube. And we have two days, sorry, three days of live wall-to-wall coverage of IBM Think 2018. My name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with my co-host Peter Burris. Steve Robinson is here; he's the general manager of client technical engagement for IBM, and he's joined by Bala Rajaramen, who's an IBM fellow, expert in Hybrid Cloud. (microphone feedback) Gentlemen, welcome to theCube. >> Oh, good, thanks for having us. Always a pleasure. >> Thank you. >> You're very welcome. So, Steve, let's start with you. >> Sure. >> We were talking off camera about some of the work that we've been doing in what we call true private cloud. You talked about some of the work you've done with BCG, your own internal work. What are you seeing in terms of private cloud and the resurgence of private cloud? >> You know, it's kind of fascinating. You know, over the past, probably two years, we started to see this kind of next definition of private cloud coming about, where most firms had spent a lot of effort on virtualizing their data center, building up these beautiful VMware firms, etc., and then this next level is, how can I start to do more cloud capability back behind the firewall? This notion of CaaS, container as a service, started showing up in RFPs. People wanted to say, hey, can Kubernetes come back as well, could I use private cloud as a parking lot for certain workloads, and could it possibly be the basis for doing true multi-cloud down the road where some of these environments may start landing both on private, multinode private, and even on public as well. So it's been a real resurgence from our side. >> So we made the observation several years ago with our research team that CIOs are realizing they couldn't just put their business into the public cloud. >> Right, right. >> Rather, they wanted the cloud experience and they wanted to bring that experience to their data wherever that lives. >> Exactly. >> So, Bala, what technical challenges does that bring and how do you guys solve them? >> Yeah, it's interesting because, I mean, when you look at cloud, it's about what makes something a cloud. And I think the two things that CIOs are struggling with, which is why public cloud was an attractor initially, was that easy self-service. I can get to things quickly from the business perspective, and I can manage it very consistently because everything works the same. And I think what Steve alluded to was when you bring the cloud to you, it's not just bringing the capability, but it's bringing the experience. And can people get to it easily? Can businesses be competitive in that environment? Can the operations guy manage that environment like they would manage something at a cloud scale? And that, essentially, was the challenges we had to solve, not just in moving things, but in moving all the right pieces around it so that it was a cloud, yeah. >> So, we talked with you about the whole concept is the cloud experience where the data warrants it. And as you said, it's not just bringing technology in, it's also bringing the entire operating model-- >> That's right. >> Of how the cloud works. IBM is a big company, has always been its first customer. What has IBM been learning as you become more of a cloud-first company, or a cloud-oriented company, and how are you bringing that to your customers? >> Well, definitely I think the key thing we've been doing has been in a, you know, spirit of transformation for the past three years, as well. One of the things we picked up critically when we started the private cloud effort is there's a dimension of having to fit in with what an enterprise has already. They've got a strong system management process in place, they've got ticketing, they've got their plasmas up on the hall showing the up time of their applications. The biggest challenge was when they were moving to public cloud, they were kind of giving that to the public cloud vendors and they were losing visibility in that as well. So part of this, we had to respect them to be able to allow them to see their applications, to be able to fit into their existing environments, and be able to fit into the process. We can't leave that system management team behind. >> And just to add to that, I think when you look at the evolution of things like microservices, you're breaking something that was intrinsically a whole and manageable as a whole, into a bunch of individual pieces. That challenge has always existed when you move from mainframes to distributed, because the management challenge more than anything else. You could build applications quickly, but it's really hard to manage them with microservices across multiple clouds, it's a fascinating exercise. So I think our learnings, to your point, was we have to think about it in a different way. Think about from an app-centric way, not from an infrastructure-centric way. And I think that's critical. >> I want to build on that for a second because Judy talked this morning, and we certainly would agree with the concept of your data as an asset. Are we really thinking apps-centric longer term, or data-centric longer term, and apps-centric is more how do we affect the transition because that's where the value proposition is today? >> Right, and that's where your assets are, right? >> Right. >> And your data becomes an integral part, an entangled part of it. As you split your applications, you're also looking at splitting your data, and how do you manage that? How do you manage where the data is placed? Manage where applications are placed? I think the true cloud value, going back to your question, is how does this multi-cloud universe around placement of data, placement of applications, security models, availability models, how does it all come together? And I think that's the biggest challenge, and I think we are doing some interesting work to address this. >> We almost view it always as kind of two planes at the same time. Where do we optimize the application based off of the performance characteristics, you know, how much compute do we need around it, you know if it's a very sophisticated investment banking, let's get that closer. We've even been running private cloud back on the mainframe, Kubernetes clusters back on the mainframe. But then the whole data story now with regulatory, with GDRP, etc., gives you another layer of complexity. So we almost have to look at what's the app doing, and then what's the data doing at the same time? >> You've kind of called it cloud your way. >> Yeah, right. (laughs) >> You used that statement a while back. And so we could define cloud a lot of different ways. We're talking about our data, you talked about some of your studies, and you show them, actually, the private cloud and the public cloud infrastructure's comparable in size. >> It's pretty close. Pretty close. >> We show private cloud smaller but growing twice as fast, so, okay. >> But we also call it two-prong cloud. >> Yeah, so we maybe have a different definition, but let's talk about the customer definition. >> Of course, yeah. >> A cloud is in the eye of the beholder-- >> Beholder, right, right, right. >> Beholder's the customer. So to me, it's about the business impact. Are they seeing an impact on agility? Is it changing their operating model? Because if it is, then it's going to have a bottom line impact, and if it's not, it's just a lift and shift on prem. What are you seeing in terms of the customers? >> Well, I think it's interesting, though, you used the term lift and shift. That's one of these, I call it an urban myth of cloud. Nothing is a lift and shift. >> Dave: Right. >> I think part of the challenge for us is could we bring some cloud attributes back behind, and what would that do for you? I know Bala mentioned self service. We, you know, some degree of horizontal scalability. We'll never have ultimate scalability like we have in the public cloud, but we can spin up multiple instances and start to manage pieces in a different way. The other area that we looked at that we had never thought about when we did our Bluemix local product, etc., could this be a path also for their middleware coming forward at the same time? Could we take this opportunity to start to containerize WebSphere, MQ, DB2, so that more workloads could move towards the cloud without having to have them be fully replaced and change up all the dependency chains, etc. So that's been a key thing, to pull the gravity of that middleware forward, while you kind of have it back on premise, as well. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think, going back to the lift and shift point, right, I mean, I think the traditional disadvantage of a lift and shift was you're moving your bad with your good, right? >> Right, right. >> And I think what this gives us in approach is how do you actually decouple that? Your applications are your crown jewels. You have invested a lot of effort over many years. What held you back was the processes you put around it that slowed you down. So being able to, to Steve's point, when you bring WebSphere, for example, onto a cloud platform, you minimize the risk, you enhance the value of building your application or moving your applications as is. That's a valuable lift and shift. But what you're not lifting and shifting is all of your processes, all the bureaucracy, all of the more traditional ways of doing things, and that combination, I think, is really the, to pick on your definition, is a true private cloud because it brings a customer-perceived value of, and a customer-perceived values risk. It is cost, and how do you optimize that? You're minimizing the risk, you're giving them a new operating model, a new self-service model, that takes away the bad and keeps the good. And I think that is, to me personally, I think that's a very exciting thing. >> Well one of the things that people always talk about when they talk about cloud is they talk about elasticity. >> Steve: Right. >> Great idea. But we like to talk about plasticity. >> Steve: Yes. >> Which is a different definition. Elasticity is same workload and scale, plasticity is the ability to consume, bring up, new workloads, do a better job of patches and updates. >> Steve: You got it. >> What do you think about that notion? At what point in time does the industry start to focus more on the fact that you can use cloud to fit your business differently? To snap your business into place differently, as a consequence of these services? >> That's a great insight, and it's one that I think most people just don't realize out of the gate that even bringing some of these cloud capabilities and also some of these more advanced container orchestration capabilities to all of their workloads gives them a lot more flexibility. We use a term pet versus cattle. You know, where in the old days, I would stand up, middleware stack, etc., and I would do everything to make sure that thing stood up, it was never impacted, etc. With some of the orchestration that we find in Kubernetes, I can stand up six versions of those. If one ends up getting knocked down, who cares? I can just automatically launch another one right back up. It changes the way how I manage that environment. It gives you more flexibility. It gives you more dynamic capability as to where I actually put individual pieces, even with my own infrastructure as well. So I think this could open a whole new era of how I manage. The plasticity; I like that idea as well. >> Yeah, that's a great word because I think when we started this discussion, I did not define cloud as being elastic for very much the same reason because from a business perspective, elasticity is a lower down function, or more of a second-order function. Being able to consume it easily, not be worried about how it's deployed-- >> It's a value proposition with a cloud guy's term. >> That's right, that's right. >> Exactly. And so plasticity's a much better word because that is a business impacting statement, which is, all to the point, which is I can deploy it. I can remove it. I'm not locked into particular things. I can evolve it very quickly. I think you're absolutely right and I think it's different. >> So speaking of the cloud guys, I got to ask you. So if the cloud guys were here, the public cloud pure plays wheel, they would say, oh, IBM, and we get this all the time with our true private cloud, that's old-guard thinking. >> Sure. >> Okay, so what we're doing is changing the world, what they're doing is trying to put a little, you know, lipstick on virtualization. How would you respond? >> If you look at the workloads that a typical enterprise, now, trust me, if I was building greenfield applications or doing a brand-new start-up with my BC money, etc., boom, if I had the chance, I would put it on public and run right away. A lot of flexibility, etc., with that. But the enterprises that we've worked with, I tend to say that most of the ones where we come in and we evaluate large number of workloads, you know, we just did one with a bank. We evaluated 900 different workloads. 15% met their regulatory and their risk policy and could move to the public cloud. That leaves 85% that are either going to stay in their legacy state, or are not going to start taking advantage of some of the cloud concepts we have. So, yeah, you've got to come back behind. And I think if you look at the public vendors, they're trying desperately to either send hard drives down or send appliances down. They understand they're going to have to extend down so that they can bring more workloads the right direction here. >> Of course. >> Now, we're advising our clients to focus on what's their value proposition, what activities are most important, what data's required to perform those activities. >> Steve: We say right cloud for the right workload. >> Yeah, and the question with data is latency, regulatory, and IP protection. Does that resonate with you guys? >> Yeah, that resonates very well. And I think, to me, we are trying to impose a strategy on a current state of the universe. So I think we are arguing whether public cloud is the right answer, or private cloud is the right answer, based on how we perceive private and public today. I think it's, in the next 10 years, you're not going to be able to tell the distinction. I mean, it's going to be more like a central office model where you have the core switches, you're going to have distributed switches. That is the cloud. And who manages what, how you delegate it, multiple providers, cross-provider billing, it's going to become a fabric. Then I can't tell the difference between what's public and what's private. I mean, I have the boundaries well-defined. And so, I think I view that as the eventual strategy, and I think we are now predicting a future that we are just guessing. >> Does that suggest, Bala, then, that the capabilities of the on-prem services are going to be substantially similar to what you see in the public? Do you guys benchmark yourselves against your IBM cloud brethren and have a little healthy internal competition, or? >> No, it is contextual. So if you take something very complex like weather, where it is gathering data from a whole bunch of sources, it makes almost no sense to have something that's local. But if you look at some of the other services, even things like machine learning and so on and so forth, there are some that make perfect sense on a cloud. There's things that make sense on closer to the data, on premise. But what's going to be more interesting is how they work together. And over time, you're going to see the programming model evolve to eliminate the distinction between what is private and what's public. And you're going to see an operational model evolve with the right delegation and controls that wipes out the distinction. In 10 years, I think we are not going to be having this discussion of private versus public. It is going to be a cloud with private components, with public components, and the ability for, from a business perspective, for a client to manage it in the right way. >> So things like, sorry, Peter, things like functional programming models will be pervasive. >> That's correct. >> And it will be up to the client to choose which, where their data is, essentially, is going to dictate what they use and what-- >> Well, and I think-- >> The business requires. >> We envision today where it's almost done on a dynamic basis, you know, where you're really to the point where I may have a load that's based on CPU, etc., running predominantly in the private cloud. Then we have a bursting scenario, actually be able to pick that container up and dynamically move it up to public as need be. As my risk and compliance rules begin to change, I could dynamically say, the same application, these three we're running here today, let me do a distributed, distribution of those as well. Not heavy lifting. >> Really quickly, so we're going to focus more on how you get value out of your data where the infrastructure's not the issue, and even the applications are less of an issue. One quick question though. >> Steve: Yeah? >> So we talk about, we talk about self-service, we talk about rolling updates, we talk about new maintenance styles, all associated with the cloud. What about metering? What about pay as you go? At what point in time does pay as you go start to really hit private cloud options? >> Sure, sure. >> I think it'll hit it sooner than later, but I think what's going to be interesting is the economics of it. >> Yeah. >> I think there's a supposition that pay as you go is a better model from an economic perspective. Not always. It depends on the duty cycle of your workloads. We are seeing movement where, when the workload is variable, that pay as you go model is, is a better fit. When things get where you can actually understand the application, optimize the application, optimize the infrastructure behind the application, a different model which is-- >> But doesn't it make sense to give the customer options? >> Yes, it does. >> Of course you do. But I think we always talk about clouded option and cloud transformation. There's both a technical piece and there's a cultural piece as well. I had Forrester on stage with me yesterday, and I said, "What is the one thing that "enterprises have to get right with cloud in 2018?" He said, "Procurement." And I can recall a CIO asking me one time if I could sell him compute by the nanosecond. I said, "Can you buy compute by the nanosecond?" And he said, "Touche." (all laughing) They are used to buying in big blocks in certain circumstances. They're used to the enterprise license in certain instances. So that's going to have to show as much change as, you know, we could do fine-grain billing today. Does it match, and does it fit the need? >> All right, we've got to go, but Steve, I want to give you the last word. We really didn't talk much about Cloud Private, which is your sort of branding and your offering. Maybe you could give us a little commercial on that? >> Sure. Yeah, we launched this last year, early November. We did IBM Cloud Private. So what we did is we took a core Kubernetes base, we extended it with some other compute models, you'll see Cloud Foundry in there, you'll see VM's in there as well. We took our middleware, we did a full containerization of it so you'll see a lot of rich stack of our middlewares, and then you see this automation layer's on top of it, our processes, etc., to kind of help you manage that overall environment. It's gone gangbusters. In just two months we had over 150 of our large enterprise clients. We got some of the great ones here with Hertz, MRN, etc., and getting great value out of it already. So we're very positive. Getting a lot of great press off of it, and we got a sales team extremely excited about it as well. >> Okay, Steve, Bala, great discussion as always. Really appreciate you guys coming on theCube. >> Oh, always great. >> Have a good rest of Think. >> Well, thank you again. >> Thank you, guys. >> We appreciate theCube. >> All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching theCube live from IBM Think 2018. Be right back. (electronic music)

>> Voiceover: theCUBE presents "On the Ground". (techno music) >> Welcome to a special, exclusive Cube, On The Ground here at Oracle's headquarters. I'm John Furrier, the host of theCube, here with Claude Robinson, Senior Director, Product Management, for conversion infrastructure. Claude, welcome to On The Ground, we are wrapping up a great day of interviews of thought leaders and experts here at Oracle, from Big Data Cloud Machine. All of this is kind of coming together under this converged infrastructure, software in the cloud, big data all kind of connecting in, what's your take on this? How do you wrap this up into a burrito? How do you wrap this thing up and put this together? >> Yeah, so, you know, as everybody said, Big Data is kind of one piece of a bigger puzzle. Customers are looking for a complete solution that they can plug in, and actually just spend time running their business versus going out and building solutions internally. So, you know the old model of going and picking a ton of pieces and vendors of the shelf, spending months putting it together, waiting six to nine months for someone to come back with data that you can analyze to run your business, that doesn't work anymore in today's world. >> We stuff stuff out there, open stack, We see SDN, we see all kinds of stuff in the Cloud, you got Amazon, there is definitely a do it yourself culture out there, certainly on the hardware side, people have been buying servers, buying storage. You guys provide this whole integrated solution, but you don't necessarily have to buy Oracle hardware, but you can run this on that, I mean, so, I mean. Do customers have to buy all of Oracle? What's the ideal configuration for this? >> So basically customers have a choice in terms of what they want to do. Again, the high level thing for the analytics pieces is they basically want to take that data, and make a business decision out of it. And we are giving them the options of doing that where they want, when they want and what platform they want within Oracle. So if they want to do public Cloud, they can. If they want to build their own private Cloud on premise, levering our technology, they can. If they want to go with the old model of a converged system on premise, they can. Again, we are letting them do that, and it's a system that is really easy. It works across all three areas, and it is basically just plug and play. >> One of the things that is interesting about this big data appliance that we were talking about earlier today, one thing I think is attractive about it is that it take the benefits of Oracle, if you are an Oracle customer over at Oracle Database, you know what you're talking about, you know what you have there. It's got value. But you don't have to buy Oracle, to connect to Hadoop. You can use open source if you have Spark or Hadoop, this is an extensionished strategy for Oracle. Give you, essentially, access to a bigger database business, that is free anyway. But the customers get value in that. Is that part of the value proposition that you guys see as well? I mean, because it is not necessarily Orale database, but you are enabling connection to a free software. You guys understand what is going on here? Why is this important? >> So customers today can go out and build their own, but again it is going to take 51 pieces and 100 steps. You know when we were little and we built models, that was great, but when you are running a multi billion dollar business, or a 50 million dollar business, you don't have time to do that. You want something that you can basically take, and plug in. And so, what we have doe is gone out and supported these open source, you know, configurations, that, you know, customers are using to run their business. And we are giving them powerful tools that Oracle builds that plugs into data, that makes that happen. >> So talk about the interviews we had this morning, up and down, so we had a diverse group of people, how would you describe the set of interviews that we had today from an expertise standpoint and subject matter. >> Yeah, so most of these folks are the thought leaders at Oracle and in the industry in Big Data. You saw things that were basically related to hardware. You saw discussions around trends that are happening with the internet of everything, or the internet of things. You saw folks talking about what is happening in terms of what customers want in terms of data labs, or data lakes. So you saw kind of a large representation of expertise within Oracle, speaking to the various pieces of Big Data. >> Converged infrastructure was a term that has been around for a while, but it certainly played out exactly when it first came out. People were like, oh, converged infrastructure, we're are seeing that same kind of converges happening at the data layer, do you guys see that tread connecting with customers, are customers getting it? That concept, we heard things like data lab, data factory. I mean there is almost a converged data infrastructure going on too. >> I think customers get, I think, the old model of converged infrastructure was, hey, lets simplify so of the hardware components. And there was a big piece missing, which was, what are you doing with that hardware? Where is the software pieces? I think the real converged infrastructure that Oracle is bringing to the table and that customers are seeing is the complete package. Its not only the hardware, but the entire software stack as well, because in the old model, if you have a converged infrastructure with hardware, what are you going to do with that? You need software components on top of that, so you are still kind of, you know, building your own with or others off the shelf, you don't have to do that. >> One of the things that people are saying in the marketplace, and, you know, we are also seeing on theCUBE with the Cube coverage, is Oracle is actually thinking about the hardware performance in context to the software of the database, primarily, and then up the stack. What's so important about that notion, of thinking about the performance of the hardware tied to the software, both Oracle and non Oracle? >> You know, I think you could look back at kind of the old mainframe days, if you could basically have a hardware systems and a software working together, and designed to work together, you have the best system, best of breed. I think, you know, because of missing technologies back then, we moved to this kind of open client model. We would kind of have hardware. We would put some third party software on there. You would try to configure it yourself to make it work. Most companies would actually prefer if that system arrived ready to go. So we are kind of, in some way, we are taking the best of both worlds, the best of the optimized system from the past, with the ability of that configuration, that methodology and technology that we have nowadays, and we built a system that basically provides you the best of breed. >> Claude, thanks so much for spending time with us today. I appreciate letting us come in and talk to all the experts here On The Ground here at Oracle Headquarters. >> Thank you, John. >> I'm John Furrier, here On The Ground, for exclusive coverage of Oracle, pre Oracle open world, and also getting all the thought leads around data, data capital, and all data management, on converged infrastructure. I'm John Furrier, you're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (techno music)

(mumbling) >> Voiceover: Covering Sapphire now. Headline sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform as a service. With support from Console Inc., the cloud internet company. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> We are here live at SAP Sapphire. This is SiliconANGLE Media's The Cube. It's our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal to noise and want to do a shoutout to our sponsors SAP HANA Cloud and Console Inc. at console cloud, connecting the clouds together. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Peter Burris. Our next guest is Reggie Jackson, winner, athlete, tech athlete now, entrepreneur, overall great guy, and a cube alumni. Four years ago, we interviewed him here at SAP Sapphire. Welcome back, Reggie, to The Cube. Thanks for coming on. John, thank you very much. It's good to be here with old friends. We were havin' a little conversation about baseball there, but good to see you guys. Yeah, and obviously, the baseball, we were just talkin' about the whole fisticuffs and the glee of the grand slam walk-off. >> Reggie: Good stuff, good stuff. >> It's a good pivot point in some of the things that you're workin' on in here, the conversations in the tech world, which is social media and that notion of celebrating in a world of Instagram and Snapchat and social media. Certainly, ya flip the bat, the views go up. But then, baseball has these (laughing) unwritten rules, right. So does corporations. And so we're now a new era. Is baseball safe now with these unwritten rules and should they maintain those, certain things that have kept the game in balance? But yet with social media, the players are their own brand. And you certainly were a brand, even back in your day, which is a pioneer. What's your thoughts on that? >> You know John, Peter, I don't like the idea of someone going out of their way to promote their brand. Some of the great brands to me in history, Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, the great Jim Brown, Joe Montana, Michael Jordan. And Michael Jordan would be a prominent example where technology and TV enhanced who he was. And he had someone behind him to enhance his brand, Nike, Phil Knight, who was a real pioneer. I'm not so in favor, I'm not in favor at all of someone manufacturing themselves as a brand. And I hear players talk about their brand and about trying to create something. If you're great, if you deserve it, I don't think Stephen Curry works on his brand. I think he works on bein' a great player. I think he works on bein' a great teammate. I think he does his best to maximize his skill set. And he's nothing but a gentleman along the way. He'll celebrate with joy once in awhile, with the Curry moves, which we've come to recognize. But for guys that talk about the manufacturing of their brand, there's something about it that's manufactured. It's not real, it's false. And I don't like it. I think it's okay, the Snapchats and the Google+ and all of the stuff, Twitter and Facebook and all that stuff, all of the things that go along with trying to create some hubbub, etc. I'm okay with that. >> So you're saying if it's not deserved. People are overplaying their hand before earning it. >> A lot of it, John, a lot of it. Joe Montana didn't work on his brand, he was great. Jim Brown didn't work on his brand, he was great. I don't want to use Jimmy Brown. I want to use Montana because even young people today will know Joe Montana. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, they're not about their brand. They're about being classy, being great, being part of a team, being a leader, presenting themselves as something that's respected in the NFL, across the United States. Go ahead, Pete. >> So even though it's cheaper to get your name out there, you still believe in let your performance speak for itself. >> You got to be real about it. Ya got to be who you are. If you're not a great player, get out of the way. Get out of the space. So manufacturing your brand. I played with the Yankees. I was in the era of Cosell and Billy Martin and George Steinbrenner. We won championships with the team. I was part of something that helped me become recognized. And so in our era, the Sandy Koufax's became brands because they were associated with greatness around them. They stood out and so they earned that tremendous brand. >> We were just watching Graig Nettles gettin' taken out by George Brett in that big game and also the pine tar, we kind of gettin' some good laughs at it. You look at the balance of personalities. Certainly, Brett and Nettles and your team and you had a great personality, winning championships. Worked together as a team. And so I want to ask you that question about the balance, about the in baseball, certainly, the unwritten rules are a legacy and that has worked. And now in a era of personalities, in some cases, people self-promoting themselves, people are questioning that. Your thoughts on that because that applies to business too 'cause tech athletes or business athletes have a team, there are some unwritten rules. Thoughts on this baseball debate about unwritten rules. >> Pete and John, I'll try to correlate it between some tech giants that have a brand. I just left a guy with a brand, Bill McDermott, that runs SAP. Even Hasso, the boss. The face now of SAP is Bill McDermott. Dapper, slender, stylish, bright. It comes across well. So maintaining that brand, to me, relates to SAP, bills a great image for it. He's stylish, he's smooth, he's smart. He's about people. He presents himself with care. So that is a brand. I don't think it's manufactured. That's who he is in real life. If you take a look, and I'll go back to Steph Curry because that name resonates and everyone recognize it. That style of cool, that style of control, that style of team and care. And he presents to us all that he cares about us, the fan, his team, his family. And so those are things and I think you can go from the tech world. Bill Gates had a brand. Brilliant, somewhat reclusive, concerned about the world, concerned about the country, concerned about his company. And so that resonated it Microsoft because that's who he really was. Some of the people today don't really recognize that Jobs was thrown out of Apple. He was pushed out. All of his brilliance, which was marketing. And the gentleman there that really was the mind for the company, Steve Wozniak, happens to be here at SAP Sapphire. Today, I think he speaks. But those brands were real, not manufactured. And so, in today's world, I think you can manufacture a brand. And then all of a sudden, it'll crumble. It'll go away in the future. But the great brands of whether it's Jackie Robinson or whether it's Jack Welch or whether it's George Steinbrenner and the Yankee brand, those brands were real. They were not manufactured. Those guys were eccentric. They were brilliant. Go ahead. >> And also, they work hard. And I want to point out a comment you made yesterday here at the event. You were asked a question up on stage about that moment when you hit the home runs. I think we talked about it last time. I don't necessarily want to talk about the home runs. But you made a comment I'd like you to expand on and share with the audience. 'Cause you said, "I worked hard," but that day during warm-ups, you had batting practice. You made a comment that you were in the zone. So working hard and being great as it leads up to that. But also, in the moment, 'cause that's a theme these days, in the moment, being ready and prepared. Share your thoughts on what you meant by you had a great batting practice and you just felt it. >> I'm going to take it to what you say is in the moment. I remember when I was talkin' about it yesterday, which you reference to, when I had such a fantastic batting practice. I walked by a coupla sports writers in that era. Really well-known guys, Dave Anderson, New York Times. I can't think of his name right now, but it'll come to me, of the Daily News. It was like hey man. >> John: You were rockin' it out there. >> I kind of hope I didn't leave it out here. (laughing) That was in the moment and at the same time, >> I mean, you were crushing it. >> Yes, when the game started, I got back in that moment. I got back in what was live, what was now, what was going on. Certainly, I think our world now with the instant gratification of sending out a message or tweeting to someone or whatever certainly in the moment is about what our youth is and who we are today as a country, as a universe. >> But you didn't make that up. You worked hard, but you pulled it together in the moment. >> A comment with that is I went and did something with ESPN earlier this year in San Francisco, in Oakland with Stephen Curry. They said, "Reggie, we want ya to come up "and watch his practice, his pre-game." And it was very similar to your batting practice, where people come out and watch, etc. And so I was looking forward to it and I like to go to the games about an hour and a half or two hours early so I can see warm-up and see some of the guys and say hello. And I got a chance to watch Steph Curry. I know his dad. And happened to be the first time I went this year, the dad, Carolina, the Panthers were in town. Not the Panthers. Come on, help me, help me, help me. >> Peter: The Wizards? >> No, no, no, the Carolina. >> Peter: Carolina Panthers. >> The Carolina Hornets. >> John: Hornets. >> Were there and I know his dad, Dell Curry. And we talked a little bit. But then, Steph came out and I watched him. And I watched the dribbling exhibition. I watched the going between the legs and behind the back and the fancy passing, etc. And I watched the shots, the high-arcing threes, the normal trajectory threes, the high shots off the backboard and things like that that he did. The left-handed shots, the right-handed shots. And the guy asked me what I thought of the show. And I said, "Well, it's a cool show, "but I'm going to see all that tonight." And me watching him, the behind the backs, the between the legs, the passes, the high-arching shots from three, the high-arching touches off the glass. He does all that. >> John: He brought it into the game. >> Yeah, I said so, (laughing) >> Peter: That is his game. >> It's not a show, but that's his game. >> So Reggie, you did an interesting promotion, Reggie's Garage, where you bought a virtual reality camera and you created a really nice show of your garage demonstrating your love >> Reggie: 360. >> Peter: of cars, 360. Talk a little bit about that. And then if ya get a second, imagine what baseball's going to be like as that technology becomes available and how some of the conversation that we're having about authenticity, the fan coming into the game. >> An experience. >> Is going to change baseball. Start with the garage and how that went and then how ya think that's going to translate into baseball, if you've had any thoughts on that. >> In the technology that was used, certainly I enjoyed it. While I was doing it, I noticed where the cameras were in different spots. There was one on the floor of my car. There was one in the backseat. And then there was someone following us as closely as they could. But you could see everything. You'd see the shift and you could see my feet. It was like you were with me. When we did the 360 inside the garage as well, you could listen to me and then you could use your finger and spin around. And they had these special headset and special glasses that you could look around, just with your headset on, and see all around the room. Behind you, in front of you. And so it's an experience that I think is going to become part of who we are as a nation, who we are as a people watching television, that you're going to really feel like you're in the room. I think it's going to be exciting. And I think it's going to be fun. And when you're talking about products, when you're talking about my website, if you will, with the focus on automotive parts, where a guy can go in and shop and get any part he wants for a vehicle, you really can build a complete car from my website. You can buy a frame. You can buy body parts. You can buy a horn, an engine, brakes, tires, grills, turn signals, the whole nine yards. And it gives you an experience through 360 video of really walking into the store, walking into the building, walking into the stadium and looking around to see the hot dog stand, see the dugout, see the pitcher and the hitter, to see the parts in the garage, to see the cars and take a look and view at everything that's there. >> How are players going to react to havin' the fans virtually right there with them? >> I don't think it bothers you. I don't think ya notice. I don't think they'll show anything that will affect the player that he's going to be concerned about. I think you'd have to be sensitive if they start microphoning, start micing up and then the looseness of the language would impact. So I don't think they'll go that far. But I do think the more that you can see, the more attractive the game becomes, the more interested that you can get people. When I broadcast baseball for ABC back in the 80's, I always tried to broadcast for the lady of the house, while she worked, while she cooked the meal, she didn't have time to think about a backup slider or the fastball that painted the outside corner, the changeup, etc., the sinker. I tried to broadcast for her interpretation so I could attract another fan to the game. So I think that the technology and the viewing that you'll see from behind home plate, from under the player's feet while he's running down the bases and the slides and things of that nature, Pete, I think are going to be exciting for the fan and it'll attract more fans, attract a new type of television it's going to produce, etc. So it's exciting. >> Reggie, thanks for comin' on The Cube again. Appreciate your time. I ask ya final two questions that I want to get your thoughts on. One is obviously the cars. Reggie's Garage is goin' great. And you shared with us last time on The Cube, it's on YouTube, about you when you grew up and decide football and baseball. But when you were growin' up, what was your favorite car? What was that car that you wanted that was out of reach? That car that was your hot rod? And then the second question is, we'll get to the second question. Answer that one first. What was you dream car at the time? How did ya get >> Reggie: The dream car >> John: hooked on this? >> at the time. I had a '55 Chevrolet that I bought from a buddy by the name of Ronny Fog. I don't even know if he's still around anymore. Out of Pennsylvania. I had $300 and my dad gave me $200. I'd saved up mine from workin' for my dad. But my dream car was I went to school with a guy named Wayne Gethman and another guy named Irwin Croyes. I don't know Wayne Gethman anymore. But from the age of 16, I reengaged with Irwin Croyes, who happens to be a business investing type guy in the city of Philadelphia, right where we're still from. He's a car collector. And he drove a '62 Corvette and so did Wayne Gethman. And I always wanted one. And I now happen to have four. (laughing) >> He who get the most toys wins. Final question, 'cause you're such a legend and you're awesome and you're doin' so much work. And you're very active, engaged, appreciate that. Advice to young athletes coming up, whether they're also in business or a tech athlete or a business athlete. But the sports athletes today got travel ball, you got all this stuff goin' on. The idols like Stephen Curry are lookin' great. Great role models now emerging. What advice do you give them? >> John's got a freshman in high school. I got a junior in high school. What would ya say to 'em? >> You know, I'll tell ya. When you're young, the people you want to listen to are Mom and Dad. No one, and I'll say this to any child from the age of eight or nine years old, five, six years old to 17, 18, 19, 20, all the way up, now my daughter's 25. All the way up to the end of your parents' days. No one cares for you more than your mother or your father. Any parent, whether it's a job or whether their success in life, number one in that man or woman, mom or dad, number one in their life is their children. And so for kids, I say if there's any person you're going to listen to for advice in any path you want to walk down, it's the one that your parents talk to you about or how they show you. That is what I would leave as being most important. For kids, anything, idea that you have that you believe you can do, whether it's the athlete like Stephen Curry that has created shots and done things on the basketball court that he envisioned, that he thought about. Or whether it's the next Steve Jobs who happens to be Mark Zuckerman, who I don't know Mark is 30 years old yet. >> John: He just turned 30. >> It's an idea. He's born around the same time. He's born this week. His birthday is in this week. My birthday's tomorrow. >> John: Happy birthday. >> But thank you. Anything that you can think of in today's world of technology. With places like Silicon Valley where they take dreams and create foundations for them. I had a dream about a website that would sell automotive parts and you could go to my site and buy anything for your car. We've got about 75,000 items now. We'll get to 180,000 in a few months. We'll get to a half a million as soon as my technology is ready for it. But we have things to pay attention to and look into and issues to make sure that we iron out that aren't there for our consumer, for ease of navigation, ease of consumption and purchasing. Any idea that you have, take time to dream. It's much more so than taking time to dream when I was a young kid. Because my father would say, "Stop daydreamin' "and wastin' time." >> John: Get to work. >> Reggie: In today's world, for our children, I say take time to create a vision or to create something new. And go to someone that's in the tech world and they'll figure out a way of helping you manifest it into something that's a reality. >> Listen to your parents, kids. And folks out there, dream, build the foundation, go for it. Reggie Jackson, congratulations for being a Cube alumni again, multi-return. >> Peter: Thank you very much. >> John: Appreciate it. Congratulate on all your continued success. You're a legend. Great to have you on. And thanks so much for comin' on The Cube. >> Peter: And happy 70th birthday. >> John, Pete, always a pleasure. >> John: Happy birthday. >> Thank you very much. >> Have some cake for Reggie. It's The Cube, live here in Orlando. Bringin' all the action here on The Cube. I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris with Reggie Jackson. We'll be right back. (electronic music)

>> Las Vegas. Extensive signal from the noise. It's the Q covering interconnect 2016. Brought to you by IBM. Now your host, John Hurry and Dave Ilan. >> Okay, Welcome back, everyone. We are here live in Las Vegas for exclusive coverage of IBM interconnect 2016. This is Silicon Angles. The Q. That's our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Ferrier with my Coast Day Volante. Our next guest, Steve Robinson News. The GM of client technical engagement before that, in the cloud doing all the blue mix now has the army of technical soldiers out there doing all the action because it's so much robust. So much demand for horizontally scale. The sluices with vertically targeted, prepackaged application development. That's horrible. First you name it big data. Welcome back. Good to see you, John. Thanks. Good to be with you again. Always, like great to have you on because you got a great perspective. You understand the executive viewpoint. A 20 mile stare in the industry. But also you got the in the nuts and bolts in under the hood. >> That's right. A >> lot of action happening under the hood. So let's get that right away. Blue, Mrs Hot Night. Now it's about the developers. What's going on under the hood right now that customers are caring about? >> I always love the Cube. You guys were like one of the first guys talking to us two years ago when we just launched a blue makes on stage. We walked off, got in front of cameras here, and it was great. Over the past year, it's been it's been outstanding. We we're writing about 20,000 folks toe blue mix right now on public, we came out with dedicated and then what people had really been warning was local blue mix as well. So we finally have full hybrid chain that goes from behind the firewall to a single client dedicated cloud all the way up to the public as well. So we've been building that out with service is as well, so have over 106 service is on top of it. You'll see things like Watson, which is unique, our Dash CB analytics, which is unique Internet of things coming in as well. So it's been a great year old building it out and getting more clients on top of it, >> it's like really trying to change the airplane engine in 30,000 feet. Or, in your case, you guys were taken off and from the runway. How has that been? It's been growing pains, of course. Unlearning What? What's going on? What have you learned? Give us the update on >> changing the engine while the plane is flying, and we've used that analogy quite a bit in the labs and way have to show relevance in this market. You know, this market is probably the fastest face technical market I think I've ever been in, and it's moving at such a rapid pace. We had to ship a lot of technology out last year is well, we have every new middleware group in IBM. Putting service is on top of blue mix, so let's get it out there. Let's get it out fast. Now, of course, this year we're gonna harden it up a little bit as well. So more architectures, more points of view. Better look on how this stuff works together hardening up our container strategy, pulling it all the way back to the virtual machine. So both continue to expand it out but let's make it enterprise grade at the same time. >> And also, some differentiation with Watts has been a big play around Catnip. Yeah, really is different because right now with the quote, um, market the way it is court monetization is on number one's mind. Start from startups to enterprises. If you're in business, you want you're top line if you're starting to get monetization. So there's a little bit of IBM in here for people to take in. Well, >> you know, if you look at Watson, you know, when we first started with it, you know, it was this very large big chunk of software that she had to buy. And and we work with Mike Rodents Team toe. Can we chop it up into a set of service is Let's really make this a set of AP eyes, and we started noticing, you know, you saw in Main stage the other day out from Otis. You know, this was a pure startup. He's started picking up the social semantics. Let's pick up the you know, some of the works to text etcetera, conversions, and all of a sudden they're starting to add it in. They said they would have never had access to this technology before way Have that a P I said. Not growing up to 28 we announced a couple cool things this morning. We even showed how would improve your dating life. Probably need some of that with my wife is well to translate between the sexes there, but what people are doing with it now, it's kind of like blowing people. His mind is far beyond what the initial exception waas. >> So your team of your niche is when they get right. It's a large team. It's, but it's a new initiative. New Justice unit, New role for you Talk about that >> way. Kinda had >> a couple pockets of this, but way clearly found that getting clients to the cloud is both a technology challenge as well as a cultural challenge as well. So he brought together some technical experts to kind of help through that entire life chain help up front. You know, many clients are trying to figure out what their overall cloud strategy is, where they truly today and where do they want to get to be? And how can we help him with a road map? That kind of helps them through the transition. Many accounts are very comfortable with the only wanting to be private and only glimpsing forward Thio Public Cloud Helping us bridge across that as well. Then we have the lab service's teams and these air the rial ninjas, the Navy seals. They go as low as you can go and what they're helping. A good way. Yeah, that's good. That's good. That's why they're helping with this very specific technical issue. Technical deployments. A lot of our dedicated local environment. These guys, they're they're really helping it wire in a cz Well, and then we have the garages, you know, we're up Thio. Five of those were going. We announced four new Blockchain garages as well. And this is where firms air coming in to kind of explore do the innovative type project as well. So I think all the way from the initial inception through rolling it out into production, having that team to be able to support him across the >> board. And so this capability existed in IBM previously, But it existed in a sort of bespoke fashion that coordinated >> couple pockets here and there. We always have supports. We had various pockets a lap service's. But we won't really wanna have the capability of seeing that client all the way through their journey, bringing it all under me. We now can easily pass the baton, Handoff says. We need to have that consistent skill there with the clients all the way through their >> journey and is the What's the life cycle of these service is? Is it Is it both pre sales in and post there? Just posted >> many times we'll get involved like our cloud advisers would get involved. Presale. They'll say a specific workload wants to go to the cloud. What are the steps we need to take to make that happen? A CZ well, with our Laps Service's teams, you know, we kind of have, you know, anywhere from a 4 to 6 week engagement. Thio do a specific technology. Let's get it in place. Let's get it wired in et cetera, and then in the garage is you know, we could just take a very novel idea and get it up to, ah, minimal viable product in about a six week period. So again, we're not doing dance lessons for life but strategically placing key skills in with accounts toe. Help him get over that next hump of their journey. >> Steve, when you look at the spectrum from from public all the way down to private and everything in between are you, I wonder if you could describe the level of capability that you are able to achieve with the best practice on Prem with regard to cloud ability. It's service is all the wonderful attributes of child that we've come to know and love. Are you able to, you know, somewhat replicate that roughly replicate that largely replicate, exactly. Replicate that. Where are we today? >> Yeah, I think >> it's a great question. I think. You know, I think most of the clients that we're dealing with have been dealing with some virtualized infrastructure, probably more VMC as they as they've been kind of progressing. That story. One of the things we did it IBM is Could we bring a true cloud infrastructure back behind the firewall? Could we bring an open stack? We bring a cloud foundry base past all the way back through because the goal, of course, is if we could have the same infrastructure private, dedicated and public as they continue to grow and got more comfortable with the public cloud that could start taking work clothes that they had built in one location and start to migrate it out with you. That that local cloud the Maur used for EJ cases. So taking that system of record and building a p i's and allowing to do extensions to that allowing you access into data records that you have today dealing with a lot of extension type cases, you know the core application still needs to be federally regulated. It needs to be under compliance domain. It's gotta be under audit. But maybe I wantto connect it in with a Fitbit or connected in with with a lot Soon are connected in with the Internet of things sensor. I gotta go public cloud for that as well. So locally we can bring that same infrastructure in and then they could doom or service. Is that extended out in the hybrid scenario >> code basis? Because this has come up. Oracle claims this is their big claim to fame. That code base is the same on premise hybrid public. Is that an issue with that? Is that just their marketing, or does it matter what's IBM take on this? >> But we've done ah lot of work with the open standard communities to let's get to a true reference implementation. So on open Stack, we've been doing a lot of work with them, and this is one of the reasons we picked up the Blue box acquisition. Could we really provide a standard open stack locally and also replicate that dedicated and, of course, have it match a reference architecture in public as well? We've also done the same thing with clout. Foundry worked with Sam Ram G to be one of the first vendors, have a certified cloud. Foundry instance is the same local dedicated in public. I think that's kind of the Holy Grail. If you could get the same infrastructural base across all, three, magic can happen. >> But management's important and integration piece becomes the new complexity. I mean, I would say it sounds easy, but it's really hard. Okay, developing in the clouds. Easy, easier ways always used to be right, right well, but not for large enterprises. The integration becomes that new kind of like criteria, right? That separates kind of the junior from the senior type players. I mean do you see the same thing and what we believe >> we do? I think there's usually two issues. We start to see that this model looks great. Let's have the same code base across all three environments. What things? We noticed that a lot of folks, when you get into Private Cloud, had tried to roll their own. You know, open Stack is an open source Project clout. Foundry is an open source project. Let's pull it down and let's see units roll it out and manage it ourselves. These air a little bit you they're very dynamic environments, and they're also a bit punishing if you don't stay current with them, both of them update on a very regular basis. And we found a lot of firms once they applied tenor well, folks to it, they just could not keep up with the right pace of change. So when the technologies we invented was a notion called relay on, this allowed us to actually to use the public cloud is our master copy and then we could provide updates to get down to the dedicated environment and down to the local. This takes the headache completely away from the firm's on trying to keep that local version current. It's not manage service, but it's kind of a new way that we can provide manage patches down to that environment. >> So one of the problems we hear in our community is and presume IBM has some visibility on this. I'm thinking about last year, John, we're at the IBM Z announcement in January, rose 1,000,000 company talked a lot about bringing transaction analytic capabilities together. But one of the problems that our community has practitioners in our community course the data for analytics. A lot of it's in the cloud and a lot of transaction data sitting, you know, on the mainframe, something. How do they bring those two together? Do I remove the data into the data center? Do I do I move pieces in how you see >> we're seeing a lot of that. A lot of it was. Bring the technology down to where the data is, and and now you know the three amount of integration you can do with public data sources, private data sources, et cetera. We're seeing a lot more of the compute want to go out to the cloud as well. You know, we've done some things like around the dash, CB Service's et cetera, where I can start to extract some of that transactional data, but maybe only need a few pieces to really make the data set. That is important to me as I move it out, so I can actually, you know, extract that record. I can actually mask it into being something brand new, and then I could minute we mix it with public data tohave. It do brand new things as well, so I think you're gonna see a lot of dynamic capability across that with or cloud computing technologies coming back behind the firewall and then more ability to release that data be intermixed with public data as well. >> What's the number one thing that you're seeing from customers that you guys were executing on? There's always the low hanging fruit for the easy winds from bringing a team of street team, if you will out. Technical service is out to clients where they really putting that gather, not their five year plans, but their one year. Of course, there's a lot of that agile going on right now. New technologies. You can't isolate one thing and break everything. Za new model. What a customer is caring about, right? What's that? What's the common thing? I think >> over there in 2015 I think the discussion changed and went from Are we going to go to the cloud or we're going to the cloud now? How are we going to do it? And the nice thing about I think a lot of enterprise architecture groups kind of took a step back to say, What do we truly have to do? What is a common platform? What is an integration layer? How do we take some of our old applications and decomposed those into a set of AP eyes? How can we then mix that with public AP eyes? So probably taking one or two projects to be proof points so they could say, this thing really has the magic associated with it. We can really build stuff fast. If we do it the right way, it's gonna be in a catalyst to have the I t. Organization now take the tough steps in what's gonna be the commonality? What common service is are we going to use and how do we start breaking up >> around things you know, we have our own data science and our backcourt operation and one of the things that we always looked at with bloom. It's way start our Amazon. But now, with blue mix, you have a couple things kind of coming together in real time. You said it's getting hard, but those hardened areas are important identity. For instance, where's the data is an instruction and structure. I want a little mongo year or something over there, but with blue mix and compose, I oh, really has a nice fit. I want to explain to the folks we talked before he came on about this new dynamic of composed Io and some of the things that are gluing around blue mix. Could you share this >> William Davis King right? And I think people look to the Cloud Data Service is air. Probably it's the most critical, the most visible, and the one we have to harden up the most is well, even though IBM has been well known for D. B two and we've been a >> wire composed right >> that we did Cognos first, and then we followed up with composed by you because recent waded about, we did compose. I know about eight months ago what we liked about it was all of your favorite flavors, you know? So your your progress, your mongo, you're you're ready. But really having it behave like Like what you would want an enterprise database to do. You can back it up. You can have multiple versions of it. We can replicate itself >> is a perfect cloud need of civic >> class. It has all the cloud properties to it and all the enterprise. Great capabilities with it. Yeah, we've got that now in public, and then you're gonna start seeing dedicated, and you want >> to go bare metal, Just go to soft layer. It's not required right on these things where this will work in the cloud, and then you get the bare metal object you want pushed up the bare metal. No problem. Well, I think >> you know it. Almost hybrid is not gonna get a new definition around it. So it's all gonna be around control and automation, more automation. You need to go all the way up to a cloud foundry where it's managing all the health, checking and keeping your apple. I've etcetera. If you want to go all the way down to bare metal so you can tune it audited et cetera. You can do that as well. I think I've got one of the broader spectrum, is there? >> I'm impressed with the composer. I got to say, Go ahead, get hotel Excited by what? I get excited by just about every way. Just love the whole Dev Ops has been just a game changer in extras. Code has been around for a while, but it's actually going totally mainstream. That's right. The benefits are just off the charts. With Mobile, we have the mobile first guys on. Earlier in the Swift, we had 10 made 12 year old kid. I mean, it's just really amazing. Now that the APS themselves aren't the discussion, it's the under the hood. That's right, so you can have an app look and feel like it's targeted for a vertical, say, retail or whatever. But the actions under the hood yeah, yeah, more than ever. Now >> it's, you know it's funny this year, you know, Dick Tino to the Devil Obsession yesterday and you're the amount of proof points we had around it last year. We were scrambling a little bit and this year it's just we always had to thin out. That's how many guys were having great success with this stuff is coming into its own. >> It totally is. And you guys are give you guys Props were running as fast as you can and you're working hard. And it's not just talk. Yeah, it's It's it's legit. I'm gonna ask you a question. What's the big learnings from last year? This year? What's happened? What do you look back and say? Wow, we really learned a lot or something that might have been Magda ified for you in this journey this past year. >> A lot of it goes back to, you know, this changing culture at IBM, you know, the amount of code we put out in two years was just just unbelievable. But I think also the IBM becoming a true cloud company. Some of that we did with our own shop some, but we did through injecting it with acquisitions. You know, like to compose Io the cloud and team, the blue box guys, et cetera. I think we got the chops now to play it play pro ball way worked very hard, Teoh. How many folks, Can we attract the blue mix? We're getting up to 20,000 week. Right now. We're starting. Get some great recognition and the successes are rolling in as well. So a lot of hard work and a lot of busted knuckles. A lot of guys are tired. Definitely, definitely straight in the game now. >> Ready for the crow bait? Taking the pro GameCube madness starts on cute madness. There were, you know, keep matched all the brackets of the Cube alumni and vote on it turns into a hack a phone because everyone stuffed the ballots. Let's talk about pro ball for next year, a CZ. You guys continue? Sure. The theme here obviously is developer. I mean, the show could be dedicated 100%. The blooming LeBlanc up there kind of going fast at the end of this booth on the clock anymore. Time >> right. Like the Star Wars trailer we had >> going up, he needed more time. So it's good props you got for this year. What's going on the road map this year? What if some of the critical goals that you guys see on your group and then just in general for the thing a >> lot of the activities were gonna be doing again is hardening the stack. I've got a brand new team now called a Solution Architecture, where we're looking at it from top to bottom, taking customer scenarios and really testing it out. How do you do? Back up. How do you do? Disaster recovery? How do you do? Multi geography, You know, things like PC I compliance. The rial enterprise problems are now coming to the class global and their global. And with security and compliance, they're changing in a very dynamic fashion. We have to show how you can do those in the cloud. You'd be amazed on how many conversations we have with Si SOS every single week. Is the cloud secure? How do we do enterprise? Great workloads. IBM is bringing that story to the cloud as well. That's the story of >> a potato that content >> Curation is unbelievable, right? That's the hardest part. And it's not that we have it fixed either. But you were doing more of aggregating it together so that we can really pull it all together. I call it the diamond Mine versus the jewelry store. You know, we always have really did you got yet? The great answers out there somewhere. But if you don't start to pull it together into a single place So one of things we did this year was launched the blue mixed garage methodology where we took all of our best practices. We took text test cases, even sample code, and brought it into a single methodology site where people start to go out, pull it down, use it, etcetera. Previously, we had it scattered all over the place, and we're gonna be doing more things like that. Bring in the assets to the programmers, things that we've tried, things we've tested being more open about it, putting in a single location. >> Well, we certainly would like to help promote that. Any kind of those kind of customer reference architectures. Happy to pump on silicon angle with the bond outlook for the vibe. I'm sorry. Five for the show things year. What's the vibe this year? You know, I think I've >> been very impressed with it, and I think, you know, I've been stepping up its game If you go down to the blue. Mixed garages are motives. A motorcycle on stage, you know, kind of getting a little more hip and happening as well. But I think the clients here and this is always about the customer stories and some of the things that we're hearing from the three guys start ups that are doing GPS logistical management 22 to the big accounts, and the big banks that you really see have embraced the cloud and doing great stories on it as well. I think people come to this show so they see what their peers were doing. And they definitely walk away with a sense that the cloud Israel it's happening and 2016. It is really going to driving it home. That has to be part of everybody. Strategy motorcycles I had put on the Harley Man. We'll take it for a spin guarantee. Come on down >> and give my wife. When I got married, it was terms of conditions. That's right. That's right. Last, Watson that Yeah, Thanks, Steve. Thanks. Taking the time and great to see you again. Congratulations. What? They get technical engagement team that you have all the work that you did that blue mix noted certainly by the cube. Congratulations and continued success with Loomis congratulating >> you guys. Well, always a pleasure. >> Okay. Cube Madness, March 15th Cube Gems go to Twitter. And speaking of jewelry, we have Cube gems hashtag Cube gems. That's the highlights of the videos up there. Real time. And, of course, we're gonna get that TV for all. All the action videos are up there right now. I'll be right back with more coverage after this short break here in Las Vegas.

>>Live from Las Vegas, Nevada. It's the queue at IBM interconnect 2015 brought to you by headline sponsor IBM. >>Hey, welcome back everyone. We are live in Las Vegas. This is the cube Silicon angle's flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John furrier with Dave Alante host. Our next guest is Meg Swanson, director of marketing for IBM blue mix and with psyched to have her back on the cube last year we interviewed you one year ago in blue mix got kicked off. It was just a beta. Now it's blowing up huge and all the great success. Welcome back and congratulations. Right. >>Thank you. It's been a, it's been quite a year of Steve Robinson says if we kind of count these and joggers feels a bit like seven and it's been absolutely exciting. So we've in a span of a year, cause when we met at polls we were just at beta, you know we were, we were onboarding developers, getting feedback and now we have over 102 services on the platforms. They're rolling out rapidly and we have the deployment models with public, private and then we announced local at the show and it's just been, it's been tremendous. >>But before we get into some of the details, there's a lot of things to highlight. I want to just say congratulations because we cover a lot of companies you want to win when we meet people and they say they're going to do something and then they do it and do more and over and over achieve on the, on the mission. Cause you guys were very cautious at first you got Bloomix out there and then the wind was your back. The CEO says we need to win cloud. Right? And so you get the little reorg going on. Nancy Pearson was on yesterday, shows a little, a little bit of color on that and now you've got developers, you've got resources at your disposal. So take us through that. What happened? I mean I'll see blue mix hit a nerve obviously right out of the gate the signups were pretty strong, but we didn't hit that tipping point. When did you take us through the tipping point? When did it go? Oh my God, we've got a tiger by the tail. It was when the resources came in, was it before or after? >>It has a bit before that. So it's really your middle of, of last year. So as we, we had incredible adoption early on. So really building Bloomix from an open source perspective, building on cloud Foundry, strong partnerships with cloud Foundry and the team. And then just onboarding service after service. It truly owned reticent and all the different partners that we've had. And then around October was when we brought the Watson services on and we had been steadily growing, you know, the developer following and the babies that was pre yes. And uh, and the teams have always a mix is a platform that we're serving up. Um, you know, the IBM, uh, services plus our third party and open source. So we, even though we asked, we just reorganized, we've been working across the team since day one because we have the internet of things services, which are fantastic. Those are taking off really well. And we have the Watson teams, we have the mobile teams, the DevOps teams. So we're constantly working across and now we're reorganized into the cloud unit, which is fantastic because it just helps accelerate even more so >>you know, any, any agile business that has continuous integration like the cloud internally, you have to kind of think that way. And we're hearing that I internally at IBM does a transformation to be more agile, to go faster, which everyone's saying go fast. Everyone wants you to go fast. The CEOs, they said that yesterday, um, was, it was the tipping point that you had success and you doubled down on it was there, the proof point was Watson says, Hey look it, we can do this. Was that the key enabler? >>Yeah, the tipping point for us was really in the early stages, listening to developer feedback and making sure that we were re architecting and designing the product, that we have an incredible onboarding experience. So it developers where we know from marketing standpoint, we were getting the word out and really focusing on building community. So, you know, a few months into the year we started just very small grassroots meetup groups. Right now we have 71 countries every other week having meetups for their building applications on Bloomix. So for us it was, it was getting that community started and then having the community realize that we were taking their feedback on board and we would get, even on our Twitter handle, we'd get updates saying, Whoa, thanks Bloomix didn't, didn't realize you were listing to a, to the feedback and they, and they would mentioned what they had, you know, tweeted at us as far as um, input and how we'd made the change. And so every other day we're posting, you know, blog posts with updates on how we're working with developers. Just to make it a lot easier. >>Matt, can you talk about your open source strategy and how it's evolved as a company? I mean, IBM was, I think the first large enterprise company to get dive into open source and you went in big billion dollar investment way back when the Linux stories were now, but it's really evolved. Um, you use your, your muscle, your money and your vision and, and your open source of history, you know, in the community. How has it evolved? How is it changing? >>IBM for over 20 years we've been driving and fueling and having engineers really involved in open source community and helping to move that community along lifted up and and really anything that you're doing, especially from a hybrid cloud standpoint, you have to have open standards, you have to build an open architecture, you have to be embracing, you know, all the various open source technologies that are out there. You saw the work that we're doing and you spoke with the Docker team yesterday and, and so from our perspective is there's, there's no other way it is open by design. So all of our teams are very focused on making sure that we're working with the cloud Foundry foundation and getting input from all of the companies that are involved in that foundation. Because together we are going to create, you know, open standards and drive and momentum. Because if you're an independent developer or even if you're a large enterprise acting at the speed of an independent developer like we saw yesterday with city, you've got to be able to move and be portable. And if you're locked into proprietary standards, you're, you're just really, there's, there's nowhere you to go in this new world and this all the integration that you need. >>Okay. But there's another nuance there that I want to explore with you is that in the old days, it used to be you'd have a committee, right? Right. Everybody would maybe pay to get into the committee and they'd set a bunch of standards. Nine times out of 10 or 99 out of a hundred that it would flop. Right. And people, a lot of people said that would happen. For instance, with cloud Foundry, you guys came in and gave it a big lift. They're talking to that way around the open data platform now. So what's the difference? Is it just that there's an open source component to it? Is it that simple? >>Is the community, so, I mean, open source is successful because of the community. Listening to the community and sharing the community has a voice. And then the companies that are involved at, you know, at maybe more of a, you'll see that the table from a leadership perspective with the foundations, it's their, their role and their mission to be listening to the community and bring those forward. If any of those fail and you know, the companies involved aren't listening to the community or the community's not engaged and doesn't feel engaged and they're not innovating the platform, it's not going to work. So that's why we're very focused on building the sense of community, listening to what's out there and then enhancing. So you on the announcement with the Docker around enterprise grade containers, we were very specific with the way we approached that and named that. And you look at your, the secure gateway that needs to be added. You look at, um, the enhancements we've made from cloud Foundry on auto scaling. So really looking at what is the community looking for and then how do we then pay it back. >>So what's the message to developers? I mean, it sounds awesome. It's not easy. What you just described. Just Oh yeah, let's get the community. Well, it's hard to build community. So what's the message to developers? They have a lot of choices, a lot of options, and they spend time in various areas. What's the message to them from IBM, >>from an over an open source standpoint, just to be involved, be committed, be any, there are projects every day within the open source community where you can contribute code and you can be involved. And it's really about being very active and vocal and having, having a seat at the table. So I mean our teams, we're constantly looking through stack overflow in the feedback that we see their feedback on Reddit, feedback on get hub, you know, how, how often is the code being for blood? What kind of adoption metrics are we seeing? So from a developer standpoint, I would say, you know, it's time to lean in and be very involved because I mean not just IBM, but all the companies that we're working with across absolutely listening. And I mean this is such an era for developers where they, they have a seat at, at this big community table. It's not easy, but it's the right thing to do. The >>Docker and the register, this is modern stuff that developers want doctors. The hottest trend, you know, I was talking to dr folks, we interviewed Solomon years or couple of years ago in the cube before they changed their name even it was like, and we're so excited and all of a sudden they're now the bell of the ball. As you say, everyone wants to get married with Docker. Red is also is compelling node. These are cutting edge technologies that are part of the integrated stack. So how do you guys talk about that? In contrast to say Amazon, because Amazon and developers are used to these things. Elastic means stuff. They have auto-scaling. What do you guys have now that's direct, directly competitive with Amazon? >>Well, from a, from an application development standpoint, I see where we've gotten advantage is you look at the history of IBM around dev ops, right? So bringing together development operations in this continuous delivery life cycle and really looking at how are you going to quickly build an application and then that's, that's not the end of it, right? You now have to make sure from a security standpoint or you know, and you've heard from Mark Zonoff yesterday and the team on how are we providing strong security tools where you can do, you know in process application scanning and then you've got to deploy, you've got to auto scale, you've got to bring it back and you've got maybe an issue you've got to remediate and then redeploy. So for us it's really looking at at mobile app development and web development in that developer life cycle. And then in our conversations with our partners, the open source community, it's ensuring that we are helping to accelerate that every step of the way. >>I mean the announcement around API harmony, great example where we've got kind of the era of the impatient developer and we're all of us where you don't want to spend time writing a line of code if it's already been written. You don't want to spend time, you know, creating integration and creating API APIs if they're already out there. What you need are the tools at your fingertips where you can quickly build an application, search all the API APIs that are available and your private API APIs, you know, connect that into your mobile applications so you're to market faster. And then it's about you're enhancing and uh, you know, and, and really bringing different, yeah. >>So what do you say the developer out there that's watching this gives it the profile. Yeah, I'm comfortable. Amazon, I'm not sure I should go on blue mix. Maybe I should, maybe the best move was not to move or maybe they have something I want that I don't know about. So talk about those two scenarios. Cause like they're comfortable, they're like, okay, I, I'm fearful of moving over cause I'm comfortable over here with my tooling. Um, you know, developers are cause you work with them and then there's also the fear of missing out. Like, can I do better on Bloomex? So that's a common theme that we're hearing on developers. So how do you, how do you talk to those specifics? >>Yeah, and we, uh, we have those conversations, uh, quite a bit. And it's really about looking ahead at your strategy and at what point, especially for uh, developers within large enterprises. At what point do you need to connect with the backend systems? At what point do you need to ensure that you've got secure connectors? Our European clients are Latin American clients. They had concerns around data privacy, right? And so how are you sure that even the data centers that it's hosted in, you know, we have 40 data centers within software and growing every day and those are owned by IBM. Those are secured and it's really looking at where are you going to go as you expand your application. And do you have the right partner in place, the right steps along the way that you can, and more importantly, that you're not locked in. Because as much as, I mean, we have a lot of heart for Bloomex and what we're building, we want to ensure that we've built it to be open because we also want to have know low barrier exit. We want to make sure it's a great experience and it's our job to make sure that we've got the right services. The right time. >>So you don't, they don't feel locked in. So lock in is the lock in is a satisfaction >>yeah. Experience. It's not a, Oh I can't move because it's going to be too expensive to, you know. Right. And then there is a sense of, of expense that we're starting to see around the hidden cost of data. And as you may have walked into what you thought was a freemium model with some of the providers that are out there and you're scaling and now you have an ornament amount of data coming in and you're looking to store and provision that we are hearing, I mean the, there are hidden costs there that are also going to opening the door to other players that we've, we've, we know that we understand, uh, what you're gonna be facing down the road. So we've built the, the pricing, the application, the platform to allow for that. Whereas there are other platforms that haven't, because it is, you know, working at that kind of volume and scales a bit bit new to them and having to move that >>data is a problem too. So you mentioned 40 data centers, the more the merrier. I say here's some of the statistics. What's happening? How many services we did a little bit yesterday. Go a little deeper. What's exciting? What are the, the, the proud pieces of the, the platform that you can share with the developers? >>Yeah, it's been the integration. It's high integration between the design teams and in listening to developer feedback and then constantly designing the platform to have an amazing onboarding experience. So we announced yesterday the, uh, the Watson zones and the internet of things zone. And these are really designed to be, uh, a way to onboard into blue mix for developers that give you all the tools and resources and training that you need in order to start using cognitive applications like Watson. Because it is as exciting as the Watson services are, you do have a moment where you sit back and think, how am I going to use the power of Watson in my application? So we're creating these onboarding zones. So that's been huge advancement. Really excited about that. You're gonna see a lot more zones come out from us this year. And then the area of internet of things. So we have our, our IOT services. You had Nigel and Ian on yesterday from silver Hawk and power boat racing with internet things. They're fantastic. >>How about business outcomes? Get to finish the race and when you know the stories to the monitors, so you know if your heart rates going over right, >>that's pretty important data. And uh, so, so what we've seen to the exciting areas are really the zones and then the adoption and growth around internet of things space. And, uh, it's, it's a funny art. Our teams of developers that are out working with clients and out working with startups. If you open up their bags, they're probably gonna find a light bulb, a pebble watch. Um, but to connectors, I'm surprised anybody can get their report security nowadays that's on our team because we have all these demonstrations that we're doing with clients of, you know, imagine if you have, if you're trying to create a smart building for your employees and you have their mobile devices that are sensing and, and pinging the, um, the thermostat system, the lighting system. I'm the office. And as they're driving in and getting in proximity, things start turning on inside the office. So we do downloads with light bulbs and watches and, and really are starting to think through this smarter planet and smarter cities initiative with internet of things. And how are you using Bloomix and the power of cloud to now bring that to life within, uh, within cities and within enterprises? >>Go ahead. What's the developer persona look like these days when you're talking about the startup she talked to you? Think of the hoodies you think about the enterprise guys. So those two worlds coming together, >>they are in, in the fact that a lot of large enterprises are building innovation centers inside of themselves. And so they have, um, whether it's, if they have foundries or innovation centers or groups of developers, they're really looking to harness that, that speed and uh, an innovation that we've seen from, you know, some of the enterprise developers. And then also the big advancement that we've seen is the continual growth of the hackathons. So, you know, we know city we've been partnering with at and T as well on, on creating as many opportunities for their internal developers and external ecosystem of developers to be bringing forward new ideas to them. And then what we, we don't talk about as much publicly are the internal hackathons we do inside of large corporations. So we work with the CIO, his office, we go in 24 hour period and their developers are working on Bloomex within 24 hours. Well, depending on the number of, of it of developers they have, we'll have, you know, 50 75 a hundred mobile apps that are built. And then shark tank style, you know, they pitch the apps to their CIO and we vote on them together, you know, with the company. And then that's the roadmap for, you know, their 2015 plan and what applications they're going to bring tomorrow market. >>So talk about the geekiness of IBM and we were talking about this on the intro about what IBM should be doing, obviously where we're editorializing and pining, but um, it's known as kind of like the big company is slow old IBM, big blue, big iron and you guys are trying to be cool to see the keynotes out here. We may see that, but you guys actually have a geeky kind of community going out with this dev thing, which we've been following the past couple of years. It's pretty cool. Um, IBM is a geek culture. I mean it's got a lot of geeks that IBM, and that's a bad word we heard in New York, but a lot of computer science is um, technical people, very awesome bench of talent and patents. Right? So I'll ask, coming to bear, we're hearing, so share with the folks out there that are watching, what's it like at IBM? It's geeky. Is it? Is it, you said they carry gadgets around, I mean, is that the way people are at IBM? I mean, what's the culture like? Your group is, I think one of the ones that are kind of the edgiest. I think it's definitely not a mall culture. >>This multiple pockets. You've got a conservative customer base, but the average to be good, you gotta be, >>yeah, you gotta be kidding. It's about being authentic. So we're not trying to be anything. We're not. And when you look at me, you met, you know, the teams that I've gone through. We've got Jeff's lawyer and Marvin Goldman running around on our teams and, and we have massive development labs, you know, OBS, developers within, you know, high fund, our, our London facilities. And this is going on every day. So we're not putting on airs. You're not pretending. This is truly what our teams are doing. So we have, you know, Joshua Carr in the UK is constantly with, um, you know, with, with children in schools, showing them how to fly a drone with a banana, right where you do the device connectors. That wasn't because it was a stunt that we were trying to pull. It's just truly what they do. And we're very involved in the STEM initiatives for schools. >>I'm very involved in, you know, our distinguished engineers working through. So, but to attract developers and to get them in gray shade into your platform on board, you're judged by the company kids, they want to see themselves there. Right? So that's, there's a culture of developers now, I don't want to say brogrammers but like in this, the youngest guns are like, they've never loaded Linux on machines. They always say what bloats off where it's all cloud to them. So you're born in the cloud. So that's just a complete cultural shift, right, to talk about you guys have that mojo internally or, yes, it's about, it's about taking what we know inside the company and exposing that to developers and creating that developer to develop our connection. And you mentioned programmers. I mean we have Lauren Schaffer, we have a number of female developers on our teams and we are very much focused on ensuring that we're leading and making sure that we are creating a very balanced on environment of developers and leading in that area of making sure we have a lot of diversity. >>And so it's really about, from a marketing standpoint, it's, you know, you don't market to developers. Yeah, no, your technical chops or what's the market and you make sure that what they're interested in and what thereafter we're going to connect them with an IBM development team or is somebody else in the community through developer works that's working on it as well. And it's that local community. There's local connections headfake developers as we learned that. No, and my team, my marketing team, it's half developers, half data analysts. I mean we are, I mean EDC shifts inside of IBM marketing. I mean it's all data driven. I'm using the entire portfolio SAS portfolio we have with, you know, Unica, Coremetrics and, and then every day giving developers more trends and more technologies to play with your kid in the candy store. They ask you the, um, the question that's on my mind is what was the big learnings over the year that you guys walked away? >>What was magnified this year? Y'all see, you launched it a year ago, you have some growth, right? What's the learnings that was magnified for your team and the whole group? I'd say the speed. Um, so when you talked about, you know, agile development, agile delivery, you look at going from, you know, a few services to 102, you now have to re reinvent the way product development is done inside the company. So it's cloud versus mobile first. And it's really looking at across all the services we have, how long can they be a beta, how long, you know, are we going to do testing? What is the beta to general availability, onboarding for developers and migration path. Because a lot of companies will launch a beta, you're using the beta, you're embedded in it, and then all of a sudden it goes generally available and you have to rip and replace. Like that's horrible. And you know, experience. So we've, the biggest change I've seen is just the agile delivery and the speed at which internally to IBM we're working and learning from our partners that we're onboarding, bringing more and more partners every day. >>We got a break, but I want to ask you one final question. What's the coolest thing that you guys have done with Blumix internally? >>So internally it's been the Watson services and the Watson hackathons. So, uh, we are doing message resonance and sentiment analysis, so you can actually take a memos that are written or uh, or external documentation, run it through message resonance and, and start creating profiles of, of messaging. So it's been a, so you've got traditional writers, you know, geeking out of it and now they're uploading their content into the mobile applications and, uh, and you're then changing the way that, >>yeah, we had, we did a test, Adam sent us a link for the beta with the blue mix and we took all our chats and the social group has an amazing crowd chats, a zillion people on it and it's a huge transcript. I just cut and paste the transcript into the site and it spit out like the top things. And it was like, you know, openness cause it's a, it's a Twitter, Twitter, Twitter chat and they gave it a little, all the sentiment. I was like, wow, this is awesome so we could see where this going. So, um, that's cool. Thanks for coming. Thanks for coming on the cube again. Great to see you. Congratulations and keep us posted and we'll bull up. Keep checking in with you on the progress. This is the cube. We'll be right back live in Las Vegas after this short break.