(uplifting music) >> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of CloudNativeSecurityCon, the inaugural event, in Seattle. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE, here in the Palo Alto Studios. We're calling it theCUBE Center. It's kind of like our Sports Center for tech. It's kind of remote coverage. We've been doing this now for a few years. We're going to amp it up this year as more events are remote, and happening all around the world. So, we're going to continue the coverage with this segment focusing on the data stack, entrepreneurial opportunities around all things security, and as, obviously, data's involved. And our next guest is a friend of theCUBE, and CUBE alumni from 2013, entrepreneur himself, turned, now, venture capitalist angel investor, with his own firm, Opher Kahane, Managing Director, Sonoma Ventures. Formerly the founder of Origami, sold to Intuit a few years back. Focusing now on having a lot of fun, angel investing on boards, focusing on data-driven applications, and stacks around that, and all the stuff going on in, really, in the wheelhouse for what's going on around security data. Opher, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> My pleasure. Great to be back. It's been a while. >> So you're kind of on Easy Street now. You did the entrepreneurial venture, you've worked hard. We were on together in 2013 when theCUBE just started. XCEL Partners had an event in Stanford, XCEL, and they had all the features there. We interviewed Satya Nadella, who was just a manager at Microsoft at that time, he was there. He's now the CEO of Microsoft. >> Yeah, he was. >> A lot's changed in nine years. But congratulations on your venture you sold, and you got an exit there, and now you're doing a lot of investments. I'd love to get your take, because this is really the biggest change I've seen in the past 12 years, around an inflection point around a lot of converging forces. Data, which, big data, 10 years ago, was a big part of your career, but now it's accelerated, with cloud scale. You're seeing people building scale on top of other clouds, and becoming their own cloud. You're seeing data being a big part of it. Cybersecurity kind of has not really changed much, but it's the most important thing everyone's talking about. So, developers are involved, data's involved, a lot of entrepreneurial opportunities. So I'd love to get your take on how you see the current situation, as it relates to what's gone on in the past five years or so. What's the big story? >> So, a lot of big stories, but I think a lot of it has to do with a promise of making value from data, whether it's for cybersecurity, for Fintech, for DevOps, for RevTech startups and companies. There's a lot of challenges in actually driving and monetizing the value from data with velocity. Historically, the challenge has been more around, "How do I store data at massive scale?" And then you had the big data infrastructure company, like Cloudera, and MapR, and others, deal with it from a scale perspective, from a storage perspective. Then you had a whole layer of companies that evolved to deal with, "How do I index massive scales of data, for quick querying, and federated access, et cetera?" But now that a lot of those underlying problems, if you will, have been solved, to a certain extent, although they're always being stretched, given the scale of data, and its utility is becoming more and more massive, in particular with AI use cases being very prominent right now, the next level is how to actually make value from the data. How do I manage the full lifecycle of data in complex environments, with complex organizations, complex use cases? And having seen this from the inside, with Origami Logic, as we dealt with a lot of large corporations, and post-acquisition by Intuit, and a lot of the startups I'm involved with, it's clear that we're now onto that next step. And you have fundamental new paradigms, such as data mesh, that attempt to address that complexity, and responsibly scaling access, and democratizing access in the value monetization from data, across large organizations. You have a slew of startups that are evolving to help the entire lifecycle of data, from the data engineering side of it, to the data analytics side of it, to the AI use cases side of it. And it feels like the early days, to a certain extent, of the revolution that we've seen in transition from traditional databases, to data warehouses, to cloud-based data processing, and big data. It feels like we're at the genesis of that next wave. And it's super, super exciting, for me at least, as someone who's sitting more in the coach seat, rather than being on the pitch, and building startups, helping folks as they go through those motions. >> So that's awesome. I want to get into some of these data infrastructure dynamics you mentioned, but before that, talk to the audience around what you're working on now. You've been a successful entrepreneur, you're focused on angel investing, so, super-early seed stage. What kind of deals are you looking at? What's interesting to you? What is Sonoma Ventures looking for, and what are some of the entrepreneurial dynamics that you're seeing right now, from a startup standpoint? >> Cool, so, at a macro level, this is a little bit of background of my history, because it shapes very heavily what it is that I'm looking at. So, I've been very fortunate with entrepreneurial career. I founded three startups. All three of them are successful. Final two were sold, the first one merged and went public. And my third career has been about data, moving data, passing data, processing data, generating insights from it. And, at this phase, I wanted to really evolve from just going and building startup number four, from going through the same motions again. A 10 year adventure, I'm a little bit too old for that, I guess. But the next best thing is to sit from a point whereby I can be more elevated in where I'm dealing with, and broaden the variety of startups I'm focused on, rather than just do your own thing, and just go very, very deep into it. Now, what specifically am I focused on at Sonoma Ventures? So, basically, looking at what I refer to as a data-driven application stack. Anything from the low-level data infrastructure and cloud infrastructure, that helps any persona in the data universe maximize value for data, from their particular point of view, for their particular role, whether it's data analysts, data scientists, data engineers, cloud engineers, DevOps folks, et cetera. All the way up to the application layer, in applications that are very data-heavy. And what are very typical data-heavy applications? FinTech, cyber, Web3, revenue technologies, and product and DevOps. So these are the areas we're focused on. I have almost 23 or 24 startups in the portfolio that span all these different areas. And this is in terms of the aperture. Now, typically, focus on pre-seed, seed. Sometimes a little bit later stage, but this is the primary focus. And it's really about partnering with entrepreneurs, and helping them make, if you will, original mistakes, avoid the mistakes I made. >> Yeah. >> And take it to the next level, whatever the milestone they're driving with. So I'm very, very hands-on with many of those startups. Now, what is it that's happening right now, initially, and why is it so exciting? So, on one hand, you have this scaling of data and its complexity, yet lagging value creation from it, across those different personas we've touched on. So that's one fundamental opportunity which is secular. The other one, which is more a cyclic situation, is the fact that we're going through a down cycle in tech, as is very evident in the public markets, and everything we're hearing about funding going slower and lower, terms shifting more into the hands of typical VCs versus entrepreneur-friendly market, and so on and so forth. And a very significant amount of layoffs. Now, when you combine these two trends together, you're observing a very interesting thing, that a lot of folks, really bright folks, who have sold a startup to a company, or have been in the guts of the large startup, or a large corporation, have, hands-on, experienced all those challenges we've spoken about earlier, in turf, maximizing value from data, irrespective of their role, in a specific angle, or vantage point they have on those challenges. So, for many of them, it's an opportunity to, "Now, let me now start a startup. I've been laid off, maybe, or my company's stock isn't doing as well as it used to, as a large corporation. Now I have an opportunity to actually go and take my entrepreneurial passion, and apply it to a product and experience as part of this larger company." >> Yeah. >> And you see a slew of folks who are emerging with these great ideas. So it's a very, very exciting period of time to innovate. >> It's interesting, a lot of people look at, I mean, I look at Snowflake as an example of a company that refactored data warehouses. They just basically took data warehouse, and put it on the cloud, and called it a data cloud. That, to me, was compelling. They didn't pay any CapEx. They rode Amazon's wave there. So, a similar thing going on with data. You mentioned this, and I see it as an enabling opportunity. So whether it's cybersecurity, FinTech, whatever vertical, you have an enablement. Now, you mentioned data infrastructure. It's a super exciting area, as there's so many stacks emerging. We got an analytics stack, there's real-time stacks, there's data lakes, AI stack, foundational models. So, you're seeing an explosion of stacks, different tools probably will emerge. So, how do you look at that, as a seasoned entrepreneur, now investor? Is that a good thing? Is that just more of the market? 'Cause it just seems like more and more kind of decomposed stacks targeted at use cases seems to be a trend. >> Yeah. >> And how do you vet that, is it? >> So it's a great observation, and if you take a step back and look at the evolution of technology over the last 30 years, maybe longer, you always see these cycles of expansion, fragmentation, contraction, expansion, contraction. Go decentralize, go centralize, go decentralize, go centralize, as manifested in different types of technology paradigms. From client server, to storage, to microservices, to et cetera, et cetera. So I think we're going through another big bang, to a certain extent, whereby end up with more specialized data stacks for specific use cases, as you need performance, the data models, the tooling to best adapt to the particular task at hand, and the particular personas at hand. As the needs of the data analysts are quite different from the needs of an NL engineer, it's quite different from the needs of the data engineer. And what happens is, when you end up with these siloed stacks, you end up with new fragmentation, and new gaps that need to be filled with a new layer of innovation. And I suspect that, in part, that's what we're seeing right now, in terms of the next wave of data innovation. Whether it's in a service of FinTech use cases, or cyber use cases, or other, is a set of tools that end up having to try and stitch together those elements and bridge between them. So I see that as a fantastic gap to innovate around. I see, also, a fundamental need in creating a common data language, and common data management processes and governance across those different personas, because ultimately, the same underlying data these folks need, albeit in different mediums, different access models, different velocities, et cetera, the subject matter, if you will, the underlying raw data, and some of the taxonomies right on top of it, do need to be consistent. So, once again, a great opportunity to innovate, whether it's about semantic layers, whether it's about data mesh, whether it's about CICD tools for data engineers, and so on and so forth. >> I got to ask you, first of all, I see you have a friend you brought into the interview. You have a dog in the background who made a little cameo appearance. And that's awesome. Sitting right next to you, making sure everything's going well. On the AI thing, 'cause I think that's the hot trend here. >> Yeah. >> You're starting to see, that ChatGPT's got everyone excited, because it's kind of that first time you see kind of next-gen functionality, large-language models, where you can bring data in, and it integrates well. So, to me, I think, connecting the dots, this kind of speaks to the beginning of what will be a trend of really blending of data stacks together, or blending of models. And so, as more data modeling emerges, you start to have this AI stack kind of situation, where you have things out there that you can compose. It's almost very developer-friendly, conceptually. This is kind of new, but kind of the same concept's been working on with Google and others. How do you see this emerging, as an investor? What are some of the things that you're excited about, around the ChatGPT kind of things that's happening? 'Cause it brings it mainstream. Again, a million downloads, fastest applications get a million downloads, even among all the successes. So it's obviously hit a nerve. People are talking about it. What's your take on that? >> Yeah, so, I think that's a great point, and clearly, it feels like an iPhone moment, right, to the industry, in this case, AI, and lots of applications. And I think there's, at a high level, probably three different layers of innovation. One is on top of those platforms. What use cases can one bring to the table that would drive on top of a ChatGPT-like service? Whereby, the startup, the company, can bring some unique datasets to infuse and add value on top of it, by custom-focusing it and purpose-building it for a particular use case or particular vertical. Whether it's applying it to customer service, in a particular vertical, applying it to, I don't know, marketing content creation, and so on and so forth. That's one category. And I do know that, as one of my startups is in Y Combinator, this season, winter '23, they're saying that a very large chunk of the YC companies in this cycle are about GPT use cases. So we'll see a flurry of that. The next layer, the one below that, is those who actually provide those platforms, whether it's ChatGPT, whatever will emerge from the partnership with Microsoft, and any competitive players that emerge from other startups, or from the big cloud providers, whether it's Facebook, if they ever get into this, and Google, which clearly will, as they need to, to survive around search. The third layer is the enabling layer. As you're going to have more and more of those different large-language models and use case running on top of it, the underlying layers, all the way down to cloud infrastructure, the data infrastructure, and the entire set of tools and systems, that take raw data, and massage it into useful, labeled, contextualized features and data to feed the models, the AI models, whether it's during training, or during inference stages, in production. Personally, my focus is more on the infrastructure than on the application use cases. And I believe that there's going to be a massive amount of innovation opportunity around that, to reach cost-effective, quality, fair models that are deployed easily and maintained easily, or at least with as little pain as possible, at scale. So there are startups that are dealing with it, in various areas. Some are about focusing on labeling automation, some about fairness, about, speaking about cyber, protecting models from threats through data and other issues with it, and so on and so forth. And I believe that this will be, too, a big driver for massive innovation, the infrastructure layer. >> Awesome, and I love how you mentioned the iPhone moment. I call it the browser moment, 'cause it felt that way for me, personally. >> Yep. >> But I think, from a business model standpoint, there is that iPhone shift. It's not the BlackBerry. It's a whole 'nother thing. And I like that. But I do have to ask you, because this is interesting. You mentioned iPhone. iPhone's mostly proprietary. So, in these machine learning foundational models, >> Yeah. >> you're starting to see proprietary hardware, bolt-on, acceleration, bundled together, for faster uptake. And now you got open source emerging, as two things. It's almost iPhone-Android situation happening. >> Yeah. >> So what's your view on that? Because there's pros and cons for either one. You're seeing a lot of these machine learning laws are very proprietary, but they work, and do you care, right? >> Yeah. >> And then you got open source, which is like, "Okay, let's get some upsource code, and let people verify it, and then build with that." Is it a balance? >> Yes, I think- >> Is it mutually exclusive? What's your view? >> I think it's going to be, markets will drive the proportion of both, and I think, for a certain use case, you'll end up with more proprietary offerings. With certain use cases, I guess the fundamental infrastructure for ChatGPT-like, let's say, large-language models and all the use cases running on top of it, that's likely going to be more platform-oriented and open source, and will allow innovation. Think of it as the equivalent of iPhone apps or Android apps running on top of those platforms, as in AI apps. So we'll have a lot of that. Now, when you start going a little bit more into the guts, the lower layers, then it's clear that, for performance reasons, in particular, for certain use cases, we'll end up with more proprietary offerings, whether it's advanced silicon, such as some of the silicon that emerged from entrepreneurs who have left Google, around TensorFlow, and all the silicon that powers that. You'll see a lot of innovation in that area as well. It hopefully intends to improve the cost efficiency of running large AI-oriented workloads, both in inference and in learning stages. >> I got to ask you, because this has come up a lot around Azure and Microsoft. Microsoft, pretty good move getting into the ChatGPT >> Yep. >> and the open AI, because I was talking to someone who's a hardcore Amazon developer, and they said, they swore they would never use Azure, right? One of those types. And they're spinning up Azure servers to get access to the API. So, the developers are flocking, as you mentioned. The YC class is all doing large data things, because you can now program with data, which is amazing, which is amazing. So, what's your take on, I know you got to be kind of neutral 'cause you're an investor, but you got, Amazon has to respond, Google, essentially, did all the work, so they have to have a solution. So, I'm expecting Google to have something very compelling, but Microsoft, right now, is going to just, might run the table on developers, this new wave of data developers. What's your take on the cloud responses to this? What's Amazon, what do you think AWS is going to do? What should Google be doing? What's your take? >> So, each of them is coming from a slightly different angle, of course. I'll say, Google, I think, has massive assets in the AI space, and their underlying cloud platform, I think, has been designed to support such complicated workloads, but they have yet to go as far as opening it up the same way ChatGPT is now in that Microsoft partnership, and Azure. Good question regarding Amazon. AWS has had a significant investment in AI-related infrastructure. Seeing it through my startups, through other lens as well. How will they respond to that higher layer, above and beyond the low level, if you will, AI-enabling apparatuses? How do they elevate to at least one or two layers above, and get to the same ChatGPT layer, good question. Is there an acquisition that will make sense for them to accelerate it, maybe. Is there an in-house development that they can reapply from a different domain towards that, possibly. But I do suspect we'll end up with acquisitions as the arms race around the next level of cloud wars emerges, and it's going to be no longer just about the basic tooling for basic cloud-based applications, and the infrastructure, and the cost management, but rather, faster time to deliver AI in data-heavy applications. Once again, each one of those cloud suppliers, their vendor is coming with different assets, and different pros and cons. All of them will need to just elevate the level of the fight, if you will, in this case, to the AI layer. >> It's going to be very interesting, the different stacks on the data infrastructure, like I mentioned, analytics, data lake, AI, all happening. It's going to be interesting to see how this turns into this AI cloud, like data clouds, data operating systems. So, super fascinating area. Opher, thank you for coming on and sharing your expertise with us. Great to see you, and congratulations on the work. I'll give you the final word here. Give a plugin for what you're looking for for startup seats, pre-seeds. What's the kind of profile that gets your attention, from a seed, pre-seed candidate or entrepreneur? >> Cool, first of all, it's my pleasure. Enjoy our chats, as always. Hopefully the next one's not going to be in nine years. As to what I'm looking for, ideally, smart data entrepreneurs, who have come from a particular domain problem, or problem domain, that they understand, they felt it in their own 10 fingers, or millions of neurons in their brains, and they figured out a way to solve it. Whether it's a data infrastructure play, a cloud infrastructure play, or a very, very smart application that takes advantage of data at scale. These are the things I'm looking for. >> One final, final question I have to ask you, because you're a seasoned entrepreneur, and now coach. What's different about the current entrepreneurial environment right now, vis-a-vis, the past decade? What's new? Is it different, highly accelerated? What advice do you give entrepreneurs out there who are putting together their plan? Obviously, a global resource pool now of engineering. It might not be yesterday's formula for success to putting a venture together to get to that product-market fit. What's new and different, and what's your advice to the folks out there about what's different about the current environment for being an entrepreneur? >> Fantastic, so I think it's a great question. So I think there's a few axes of difference, compared to, let's say, five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. First and foremost, given the amount of infrastructure out there, the amount of open-source technologies, amount of developer toolkits and frameworks, trying to develop an application, at least at the application layer, is much faster than ever. So, it's faster and cheaper, to the most part, unless you're building very fundamental, core, deep tech, where you still have a big technology challenge to deal with. And absent that, the challenge shifts more to how do you manage my resources, to product-market fit, how are you integrating the GTM lens, the go-to-market lens, as early as possible in the product-market fit cycle, such that you reach from pre-seed to seed, from seed to A, from A to B, with an optimal amount of velocity, and a minimal amount of resources. One big difference, specifically as of, let's say, beginning of this year, late last year, is that money is no longer free for entrepreneurs, which means that you need to operate and build startup in an environment with a lot more constraints. And in my mind, some of the best startups that have ever been built, and some of the big market-changing, generational-changing, if you will, technology startups, in their respective industry verticals, have actually emerged from these times. And these tend to be the smartest, best startups that emerge because they operate with a lot less money. Money is not as available for them, which means that they need to make tough decisions, and make verticals every day. What you don't need to do, you can kick the cow down the road. When you have plenty of money, and it cushions for a lot of mistakes, you don't have that cushion. And hopefully we'll end up with companies with a more agile, more, if you will, resilience, and better cultures in making those tough decisions that startups need to make every day. Which is why I'm super, super excited to see the next batch of amazing unicorns, true unicorns, not just valuation, market rising with the water type unicorns that emerged from this particular era, which we're in the beginning of. And very much enjoy working with entrepreneurs during this difficult time, the times we're in. >> The next 24 months will be the next wave, like you said, best time to do a company. Remember, Airbnb's pitch was, "We'll rent cots in apartments, and sell cereal." Boy, a lot of people passed on that deal, in that last down market, that turned out to be a game-changer. So the crazy ideas might not be that bad. So it's all about the entrepreneurs, and >> 100%. >> this is a big wave, and it's certainly happening. Opher, thank you for sharing. Obviously, data is going to change all the markets. Refactoring, security, FinTech, user experience, applications are going to be changed by data, data operating system. Thanks for coming on, and thanks for sharing. Appreciate it. >> My pleasure. Have a good one. >> Okay, more coverage for the CloudNativeSecurityCon inaugural event. Data will be the key for cybersecurity. theCUBE's coverage continues after this break. (uplifting music)

>>Hello, brilliant humans and welcome back to Las Vegas, Nevada, where we are live from the AWS Reinvent Show floor here with the cube. My name is Savannah Peterson, joined with Dave Valante, and we have a very exciting conversation with you. Two, two companies you may have heard of. We've got AWS and Red Hat in the house. Manu and Joel, thank you so much for being here. Love this little fist bump. Started off, that's right. Before we even got rolling, Manu, you said that you wanted this to be the best segment of, of the cubes airing. We we're doing over a hundred segments, so you're gonna have to bring the heat. >>We're ready. We're did go. Are we ready? Yeah, go. We're ready. Let's bring it on. >>We're ready. All right. I'm, I'm ready. Dave's ready. Let's do it. How's the show going for you guys real quick before we dig in? >>Yeah, I think after Covid, it's really nice to see that we're back into the 2019 level and, you know, people just want to get out, meet people, have that human touch with each other, and I think a lot of trust gets built as a functional that, so it's super amazing to see our partners and customers here at Reedman. Yeah, >>And you've got a few in the house. That's true. Just a few maybe, maybe a couple >>Very few shows can say that, by the way. Yeah, it's maybe a handful. >>I think one of the things we were saying, it's almost like the entire Silicon Valley descended in the expo hall area, so >>Yeah, it's >>For a few different reasons. There's a few different silicon defined. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't have strong on for you. So far >>It's, it's, it is amazing. It's the 10th year, right? It's decade, I think I've been to five and it's, it grows every single year. It's the, you have to be here. It's as simple as that. And customers from every single industry are here too. You don't get, a lot of shows have every single industry and almost every single location around the globe. So it's, it's a must, must be >>Here. Well, and the personas evolved, right? I was at reinvent number two. That was my first, and it was all developers, not all, but a lot of developers. And today it's a business mix, really is >>Totally, is a business mix. And I just, I've talked about it a little bit down the show, but the diversity on the show floor, it's the first time I've had to wait in line for the ladies' room at a tech conference. Almost a two decade career. It is, yeah. And it was really refreshing. I'm so impressed. So clearly there's a commitment to community, but also a commitment to diversity. Yeah. And, and it's brilliant to see on the show floor. This is a partnership that is robust and has been around for a little while. Money. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the partnership here? >>Yes. So Red Hand and AWS are best friends, you know, forever together. >>Aw, no wonder we got the fist bumps and all the good vibes coming out. I know, it's great. I love that >>We have a decade of working together. I think the relationship in the first phase was around running rail bundled with E two. Sure. We have about 70,000 customers that are running rail, which are running mission critical workloads such as sap, Oracle databases, bespoke applications across the state of verticals. Now, as more and more enterprise customers are finally, you know, endorsing and adopting public cloud, I think that business is just gonna continue to grow. So a, a lot of progress there. The second titration has been around, you know, developers tearing Red Hat and aws, Hey, listen, we wanna, it's getting competitive. We wanna deliver new features faster, quicker, we want scale and we want resilience. So just entire push towards devs containers. So that's the second chapter with, you know, red Hat OpenShift on aws, which launched as a, a joint manage service in 2021 last year. And I think the third phase, which you're super excited about, is just bringing the ease of consumption, one click deployment, and then having our customers, you know, benefit from the joint committed spend programs together. So, you know, making sure that re and Ansible and JBoss, the entire portfolio of Red Hat products are available on AWS marketplace. So that's the 1, 2, 3, it of our relationship. It's a decade of working together and, you know, best friends are super committed to making sure our customers and partners continue successful. >>Yeah, that he said it, he said it perfectly. 2008, I know you don't like that, but we started with Rel on demand just in 2008 before E two even had a console. So the partnership has been there, like Manu says, for a long time, we got the partnership, we got the products up there now, and we just gotta finalize that, go to market and get that gas on the fire. >>Yeah. So Graviton Outpost, local zones, you lead it into all the new stuff. So that portends, I mean, 2008, we're talking two years after the launch of s3. >>That's right. >>Right. So, and now look, so is this a harbinger of things to come with these new innovations? >>Yeah, I, I would say, you know, the innovation is a key tenant of our partnership, our relationship. So if you look at from a product standpoint, red Hat or Rel was one of the first platforms that made a support for graviton, which is basically 40% better price performance than any other distribution. Then that translated into making sure that Rel is available on all of our regions globally. So this year we launched Switzerland, Spain, India, and Red Hat was available on launch there, support for Nitro support for Outpost Rosa support on Outpost as well. So I think that relationship, that innovation on the product side, that's pretty visible. I think that innovation again then translates into what we are doing on marketplace with one click deployments we spoke about. I think the third aspect of the know innovation is around making sure that we are making our partners and our customers successful. So one of the things that we've done so far is Joe leads a, you know, a black belt team that really goes into each customer opportunity, making sure how can we help you be successful. We launched and you know, we should be able to share that on a link. After this, we launched like a big playlist, which talks about every single use case on how do you get successful and running OpenShift on aws. So that innovation on behalf of our customers partners to make them successful, that's been a key tenant for us together as >>Well. That's right. And that team that Manu is talking about, we're gonna, gonna 10 x that team this year going into January. Our fiscal yield starts in January. Love that. So yeah, we're gonna have a lot of no hiring freeze over here. Nope. No ma'am. No. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And you know what I love about working with aws and, and, and Manu just said it very, all of that's customer driven. Every single event that we, that he just talked about in that timeline, it's customer driven, right? Customers wanted rail on demand, customers want JBoss up in the cloud, Ansible this week, you know, everything's up there now. So it's just getting that go to market tight and we're gonna, we're gonna get that done. >>So what's the algorithm for customer driven in terms of taking the input? Because if every customers saying, Hey, I this a >>Really similar >>Question right up, right? I, that's what I want. And if you know, 95% of the customers say it, Jay, maybe that's a good idea. >>Yeah, that's right. Trends. But >>Yeah. You know, 30% you might be like, mm, you know, 20%, you know, how do you guys decide when to put gas on the fire? >>No, that, I think, as I mentioned, there are about 70,000 large customers that are running rail on Easy Two, many of these customers are informing our product strategy. So we have, you know, close to about couple of thousand power users. We have customer advisory booths, and these are the, you know, customers are informing us, Hey, let's get all of the Red Hat portfolio and marketplace support for graviton, support for Outpost. Why don't we, why are we not able to dip into the consumption committed spend programs for both Red Hat and aws? That's right. So it's these power users both at the developer level as well as the guys who are actually doing large commercial consumption. They are the ones who are informing the roadmap for both Red Hat and aws. >>But do, do you codify the the feedback? >>Yeah, I'm like, I wanna see the database, >>The, I think it was, I don't know, it was maybe Chasy, maybe it was Besos, that that data beats intuition. So do you take that information and somehow, I mean, it's global, 70,000 customers, right? And they have different weights, different spending patterns, different levels of maturity. Yeah. Do you, how do you codify that and then ultimately make the decision? Yeah, I >>If, I mean, well you, you've got the strategic advisory boards, which are made up of customers and partners and you know, you get, you get a good, you gotta get a good slice of your customer base to get, and you gotta take their feedback and you gotta do something with it, right? That's the, that's the way we do it and codify it at the product level, I'm sure open source. That's, that's basically how we work at the product level, right? The most elegant solution in open source wins. And that's, that's pretty much how we do that at the, >>I would just add, I think it's also just the implicit trust that the two companies had built with each other, working in the trenches, making our customers and partners successful over the last decade. And Alex, give an example. So that manifests itself in context of like, you know, Amazon and Red Hat just published the entire roadmap for OpenShift. What are the new features that are becoming over the next six to nine to 12 months? It's open source available on GitHub. Customers can see, and then they can basically come back and give feedback like, Hey, you know, we want hip compliance. We just launched. That was a big request that was coming from our >>Customers. That is not any process >>Also for Graviton or Nvidia instances. So I I I think it's a, >>Here's the thing, the reason I'm pounding on this is because you guys have a pretty high hit rate, and I think as a >>Customer, mildly successful company >>As, as a customer advocate, the better, you know, if, if you guys make bets that pay off, it's gonna pay off for customers. Right. And because there's a lot of failures in it. Yeah. I mean, let's face it. That's >>Right. And I think, I think you said the key word bets. You place a lot of small bets. Do you have the, the innovation engine to do that? AWS is the perfect place to place those small bets. And then you, you know, pour gas on the fire when, when they take off. >>Yeah, it's a good point. I mean, it's not expensive to experiment. Yeah. >>Especially in the managed service world. Right? >>And I know you love taking things to market and you're a go to market guy. Let's talk gtm, what's got your snow pumped about GTM for 2023? >>We, we are gonna, you know, 10 x the teams that's gonna be focused on these products, right? So we're gonna also come out with a hybrid committed spend program for our customers that meet them where they want to go. So they're coming outta the data center going into a cloud. We're gonna have a nice financial model for them to do that. And that's gonna take a lot of the friction out. >>Yeah. I mean, you've nailed it. I, I think the, the fact that now entire Red Hat portfolio is available on marketplace, you can do it on one click deployment. It's deeply integrated with Amazon services and the most important part that Joel was making now customers can double dip. They can drive benefit from the consumption committed spend programs, both from Red Hat and from aws, which is amazing. Which is a game changer That's right. For many of our large >>Customers. That's right. And that, so we're gonna, we're gonna really go to town on that next year. That's, and all the, all the resources that I have, which are the technology sellers and the sas, you know, the engineers we're growing this team the most out that team. So it's, >>When you say 10 x, how many are you at now? I'm >>Curious to see where you're headed. Tell you, okay. There's not right? Oh no, there's not one. It's triple digit. Yeah, yeah. >>Today. Oh, sweet. Awesome. >>So, and it's a very sizable team. They're actually making sure that each of our customers are successful and then really making sure that, you know, no customer left behind policy. >>And it's a great point that customers love when Amazonians and Red Hats show up, they love it and it's, they want to get more of it, and we're gonna, we're gonna give it to 'em. >>Must feel great to be loved like that. >>Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I would say yes. >>Seems like it's safe to say that there's another decade of partnership between your two companies. >>Hope so. That's right. That's the plan. >>Yeah. And I would say also, you know, just the IBM coming into the mix here. Yeah. I, you know, red Hat has informed the way we have turned around our partnership with ibm, essentially we, we signed the strategic collaboration agreement with the company. All of IBM software now runs on Rosa. So that is now also providing a lot of tailwinds both to our rail customers and as well as Rosa customers. And I think it's a very net creative, very positive for our partnership. >>That's right. It's been very positive. Yep. Yeah. >>You see the >>Billboards positive. Yeah, right. Also that, that's great. Great point, Dave. Yep. We have a, we have a new challenge, a new tradition on the cube here at Reinvent where we're, well, it's actually kind of a glamor moment for you, depending on how you leverage it. We're looking for your 32nd hot take your Instagram reel, your sizzle thought leadership, biggest takeaway, most important theme from this year's show. I know you want, right, Joel? I mean, you TM boy, I feel like you can spit the time. >>Yeah. It is all about Rosa for us. It is all in on that, that's the native OpenShift offering on aws and that's, that's the soundbite we're going go to town with. Now, I don't wanna forget all the other products that are in there, but Rosa is a, is a very key push for us this year. >>Fantastic. All right. Manu. >>I think our customers, it's getting super competitive. Our customers want to innovate just a >>Little bit. >>The enterprise customers see the cloud native companies. I wanna do what these guys are doing. I wanna develop features at a fast clip. I wanna scale, I wanna be resilient. And I think that's really the spirit that's coming out. So to Joel's point, you know, move to worlds containers, serverless, DevOps, which was like, you know, aha, something that's happening on the side of an enterprise is not becoming mainstream. The business is demanding it. The, it is becoming the centerpiece in the business strategy. So that's been really like the aha. Big thing that's happening here. >>Yeah. And those architectures are coming together, aren't they? That's correct. Right. You know, VMs and containers, it used to be one architecture and then at the other end of the spectrum is serverless. People thought of those as different things and now it's a single architecture and, and it's kind of right approach for the right job. >>And, and a compliments say to Red Hat, they do an incredible job of hiding that complexity. Yeah. Yes. And making sure that, you know, for example, just like, make it easier for the developers to create value and then, and you know, >>Yeah, that's right. Those, they were previously siloed architectures and >>That's right. OpenShift wanna be place where you wanna run containers or virtual machines. We want that to be this Yeah. Single place. Not, not go bolt on another piece of architecture to just do one or the other. Yeah. >>And hey, the hybrid cloud vision is working for ibm. No question. You know, and it's achievable. Yeah. I mean, I just, I've said unlike, you know, some of the previous, you know, visions on fixing the world with ai, hybrid cloud is actually a real problem that you're attacking and it's showing the results. Agreed. Oh yeah. >>Great. Alright. Last question for you guys. Cause it might be kind of fun, 10 years from now, oh, we're at another, we're sitting here, we all look the same. Time has passed, but we are not aging, which is a part of the new technology that's come out in skincare. That's my, I'm just throwing that out there. Why not? What do you guys hope that you can say about the partnership and, and your continued commitment to community? >>Oh, that's a good question. You go first this time. Yeah. >>I think, you know, the, you know, for looking into the future, you need to look into the past. And Amazon has always been driven by working back from our customers. That's like our key tenant, principle number 1 0 1. >>Couple people have said that on this stage this week. Yeah. >>Yeah. And I think our partnership, I hope over the next decade continues to keep that tenant as a centerpiece. And then whatever comes out of that, I think we, we are gonna be, you know, working through that. >>Yeah. I, I would say this, I think you said that, well, the customer innovation is gonna lead us to wherever that is. And it's, it's, it's gonna be in the cloud for sure. I think we can say that in 10 years. But yeah, anything from, from AI to the quant quantum computing that IBM's really pushing behind that, you know, those are, those are gonna be things that hopefully we show up on a, on a partnership with Manu in 10 years, maybe sooner. >>Well, whatever happens next, we'll certainly be covering it here on the cube. That's right. Thank you both for being here. Joel Manu, fantastic interview. Thanks to see you guys. Yeah, good to see you brought the energy. I think you're definitely ranking high on the top interviews. We >>Love that for >>The day. >>Thank >>My pleasure >>Job, guys. Now that you're competitive at all, and thank you all for tuning in to our live coverage here from AWS Reinvent in Las Vegas, Nevada, with Dave Valante. I'm Savannah Peterson. You're watching The Cube, the leading source for high tech coverage.

(calming music) >> Hello and welcome back to fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. We're here at AWS re:Invent day three of our scintillating coverage here on theCUBE. I'm Savannah Peterson, joined by John Furrier. John Day three energy's high. How you feeling? >> I dunno, it's day two, day three, day four. It feels like day four, but again, we're back. >> Who's counting? >> Three pandemic levels in terms of 50,000 plus people? Hallways are packed. I got pictures. People don't believe it. It's actually happening. Then people are back. So, you know, and then the economy is a big question too and it's still, people are here, they're still building on the cloud and cost is a big thing. This next segment's going to be really important. I'm looking forward to this next segment. >> Yeah, me too. Without further ado let's welcome our guests for this segment. We have Brad from AMD and we have Rahul from you are, well you do a variety of different things. We'll start with CloudFix for this segment, but we could we could talk about your multiple hats all day long. Welcome to the show, gentlemen. How you doing? Brad how does it feel? We love seeing your logo above our stage here. >> Oh look, we love this. And talking about re:Invent last year, the energy this year compared to last year is so much bigger. We love it. We're excited to be here. >> Yeah, that's awesome. Rahul, how are you feeling? >> Excellent, I mean, I think this is my eighth or ninth re:Invent at this point and it's been fabulous. I think the, the crowd, the engagement, it's awesome. >> You wouldn't know there's a looming recession if you look at the activity but yet still the reality is here we had an analyst on yesterday, we were talking about spend more in the cloud, save more. So that you can still use the cloud and there's a lot of right sizing, I call you got to turn the lights off before you go to bed. Kind of be more efficient with your infrastructure as a theme. This re:Invent is a lot more about that now. Before it's about the glory days. Oh yeah, keep building, now with a little bit of pressure. This is the conversation. >> Exactly and I think most companies are looking to figure out how to innovate their way out of this uncertainty that's kind of on everyone's head. And the only way to do it is to be able to be more efficient with whatever your existing spend is, take those savings and then apply them to innovating on new stuff. And that's the way to go about it at this point. >> I think it's such a hot topic, for everyone that we're talking about. I mean, total cost optimization figuring out ways to be more efficient. I know that that's a big part of your mission at CloudFix. So just in case the audience isn't versed, give us the pitch. >> Okay, so a little bit of background on this. So the other hat I wear is CTO of ESW Capital. We have over 150 enterprise software companies within the portfolio. And one of my jobs is also to manage and run about 40 to 45,000 AWS accounts of our own. >> Casual number, just a few, just a couple pocket change, no big deal. >> And like everyone else here in the audience, yeah we had a problem with our costs, just going out of control and as we were looking at a lot of the tools to help us kind of get more efficient one of the biggest issues was that while people give you a lot of recommendations recommendations are way too far from realized savings. And we were running through the challenge of how do you take recommendation and turn them into real savings and multiple different hurdles. The short story being, we had to create CloudFix to actually realize those savings. So we took AWS recommendations around cost, filtered them down to the ones that are completely non-disruptive in nature, implemented those as simple automations that everyone could just run and realize those savings right away. We then took those savings and then started applying them to innovating and doing new interesting things with that money. >> Is there a best practice in your mind that you see merging in this time? People start more focused on it. Is there a method or a purpose kind of best practice of how to approach cost optimization? >> I think one of the things that most people don't realize is that cost optimization is not a one and done thing. It is literally nonstop. Which means that, on one hand AWS is constantly creating new services. There are over a hundred thousand API at this point of time How to use them right, how to use them efficiently You also have a problem of choice. Developers are constantly discovering new services discovering new ways to utilize them. And they are behaving in ways that you had not anticipated before. So you have to stay on top of things all the time. And really the only way to kind of stay on top is to have automation that helps you stay on top of all of these things. So yeah, finding efficiencies, standardizing your practices about how you leverage these AWS services and then automating the governance and hygiene around how you utilize them is really the key >> Brad tell me what this means for AMD and what working with CloudFix and Rahul does for your customers. >> Well, the idea of efficiency and cost optimization is near and dear to our heart. We have the leading. >> It's near and dear to everyone's heart, right now. (group laughs) >> But we are the leaders in x86 price performance and density and power efficiency. So this is something that's actually part of our core culture. We've been doing this a long time and what's interesting is most companies don't understand how much more efficiency they can get out of their applications aside from just the choices they make in cloud. but that's the one thing, the message we're giving to everybody is choice matters very much when it comes to your cloud solutions and just deciding what type of instance types you choose can have a massive impact on your bottom line. And so we are excited to partner with CloudFix, they've got a great model for this and they make it very easier for our customers to help identify those areas. And then AMD can come in as well and then help provide additional insight into those applications what else they can squeeze out of it. So it's a great relationship. >> If I hear you correctly, then there's more choice for the customers, faster selection, so no bad choices means bad performance if they have a workload or an app that needs to run, is that where you you kind of get into the, is that where it is or more? >> Well, I mean from the AMD side right now, one of the things they do very quickly is they identify where the low hanging fruit is. So it's the thing about x86 compatibility, you can shift instance types instantly in most cases without any change to your environment at all. And CloudFix has an automated tool to do that. And that's one thing you can immediately have an impact on your cost without having to do any work at all. And customers love that. >> What's the alternative if this doesn't exist they have to go manually figure it out or it gets them in the face or they see the numbers don't work or what's the, if you don't have the tool to automate what's the customer's experience >> The alternative is that you actually have people look at every single instance of usage of resources and try and figure out how to do this. At cloud scale, that just doesn't make sense. You just can't. >> It's too many different options. >> Correct The reality is that your resources your human resources are literally your most expensive part of your budget. You want to leverage all the amazing people you have to do the amazing work. This is not amazing work. This is mundane. >> So you free up all the people time. >> Correct, you free up wasting their time and resources on doing something that's mundane, simple and should be automated, because that's the only way you scale. >> I think of you is like a little helper in the background helping me save money while I'm not thinking about it. It's like a good financial planner making you money since we're talking about the economy >> Pretty much, the other analogy that I give to all the technologists is this is like garbage collection. Like for most languages when you are coding, you have these new languages that do garbage collection for you. You don't do memory management and stuff where developers back in the day used to do that. Why do that when you can have technology do that in an automated manner for you in an optimal way. So just kind of freeing up your developer's time from doing this stuff that's mundane and it's a standard best practice. One of the things that we leverage AMD for, is they've helped us define the process of seamlessly migrating folks over to AMD based instances without any major disruptions or trying to minimize every aspect of disruption. So all the best practices are kind of borrowed from them, borrowed from AWS in most other cases. And we basically put them in the automation so that you don't ever have to worry about that stuff. >> Well you're getting so much data you have the opportunity to really streamline, I mean I love this, because you can look across industry, across verticals and behavior of what other folks are doing. Learn from that and apply that in the background to all your different customers. >> So how big is the company? How big is the team? >> So we have people in about 130 different countries. So we've completely been remote and global and actually the cloud has been one of the big enablers of that. >> That's awesome, 130 countries. >> And that's the best part of it. I was just telling Brad a short while ago that's allowed us to hire the best talent from across the world and they spend their time building new amazing products and new solutions instead of doing all this other mundane stuff. So we are big believers in automation not only for our world. And once our customers started asking us about or telling us about the same problem that they were having that's when we actually took what we had internally for our own purpose. We packaged it up as CloudFix and launched it last year at re:Invent. >> If the customers aren't thinking about automation then they're going to probably have struggle. They're going to probably struggle. I mean with more data coming in you see the data story here more data's coming in, more automation. And this year Brad price performance, I've heard the word price performance more this year at re:Invent than any other year I've heard it before, but this year, price performance not performance, price performance. So you're starting to hear that dialogue of squeeze, understand the use cases use the right specialized processor instance starting to see that evolve. >> Yeah and and there's so much to it. I mean, AMD right out of the box is any instance is 10% less expensive than the equivalent in the market right now on AWS. They do a great job of maximizing those products. We've got our Zen four core general processor family just released in November and it's going to be a beast. Yeah, we're very excited about it and AWS announced support for it so we're excited to see what they deliver there too. But price performance is so critical and again it's going back to the complexity of these environments. Giving some of these enterprises some help, to help them understand where they can get additional value. It goes well beyond the retail price. There's a lot more money to be shaved off the top just by spending time thinking about those applications. >> Yeah, absolutely. I love that you talked about collaboration we've been talking about community. I want to acknowledge the AWS super fans here, standing behind the stage. Rahul, I know that you are an AWS super fan. Can you tell us about that community and the program? >> Yeah, so I have been involved with AWS and building products with AWS since 2007. So it's kind of 15 years back when literally there were just a handful of API for launching EC2 instances and S3. >> Not the a hundred thousand that you mentioned earlier, my goodness, the scale. >> So I think I feel very privileged and honored that I have been part of that journey and have had to learn or have had the opportunity to learn both from successes and failures. And it's just my way of contributing back to that community. So we are part of the FinOps foundation as well, contributing through that. I run a podcast called AWS Insiders and a livestream called AWS Made Easy. So we are trying to make sure that people out there are able to understand how to leverage AWS in the best possible way. And yeah, we are there to help and hold their hand through it. >> Talk about the community, take a minute to explain to the audience watching the community around this cost optimization area. It's evolving, you mentioned FinOps. There's a whole large community developing, of practitioners and technologists coming together to look at this. What does this all mean? Talk about this community. >> So cost management within organizations is has evolved so drastically that organizations haven't really coped with it. Historically, you've had finance teams basically buy a lot of infrastructure, which is CapEx and the engineering teams had kind of an upper bound on what they would spend and where they would spend. Suddenly with cloud, that's kind of enabled so much innovation all of a sudden, everyone's realized it, five years was spent figuring out whether people should be on the cloud or not. That's no longer a question, right. Everyone needs to be in the cloud and I think that's a no-brainer. The problem there is that suddenly your operating model has moved from CapEx to OpEx. And organizations haven't really figured out how to deal with it. Finance now no longer has the controls to control and manage and forecast costs. Engineering has never had to deal with it in the past and suddenly now they have to figure out how to do all this finance stuff. And procurement finds itself in a very awkward way position because they are no longer doing these negotiations like they were doing in the past where it was okay right up front before you engage, you do these negotiations. Now it's kind of an ongoing thing and it's constantly changing. Like every day is different. >> And you got marketplace >> And you got marketplace. So it's a very complex situation and I think what we are trying to do with the FinOps foundation is try and take a lot of the best practices across organizations that have been doing this at least for the last 10, 15 years. Take all the learnings and failures and turn them into hopefully opinionated approaches that people can take organizations can take to navigate through this faster rather than kind of falter and then decide that oh, this is not for us. >> Yeah. It's a great model, it's a great model. >> I know it's time John, go ahead. >> All right so, we got a little bumper sticker exercise we used to say what's the bumper sticker for the show? We used to say that, now we're modernizing, we're saying if you had to do an Instagram reel right now, short hot take of what's going on at re:Invent this year with AMD or CloudFix or just in general what would be the sizzle reel, that would be on Instagram or TikTok, go. >> Look, I think when you're at re:Invent right now and number one the energy is fantastic. 23 is going to be a building year. We've got a lot of difficult times ahead financially but it's the time, the ones that come out of 23 stronger and more efficient, and cost optimize are going to survive the long run. So now's the time to build. >> Well done, Rahul let's go for it. >> Yeah, so like Brad said, cost and efficiencies at the top of everyone's mind. Stuff that's the low hanging fruit, easy, use automation. Apply your sources to do most of the innovation. Take the easiest part to realizing savings and operate as efficiently as you possibly can. I think that's got to be key. >> I think they nailed it. They both nailed it. Wow, well it was really good. >> I put you on our talent list of >> And alright, so we repeat them. Are you part of our host team? I love this, I absolutely love this Rahul we wish you the best at CloudFix and your 17 other jobs. And I am genuinely impressed. Do you sleep actually? Last question. >> I do, I do. I have an amazing team that really helps me with all of this. So yeah, thanks to them and thank you for having us here. >> It's been fantastic. >> It's our pleasure. And Brad, I'm delighted we get you both now and again on our next segment. Thank you for being here with us. >> Thank you very much. >> And thank you all for tuning in to our live coverage here at AWS re:Invent, in fabulous Sin City with John Furrier, my name's Savannah Peterson. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech coverage. (calm music)

(Techno music plays in intro) >> We're here with theCUBE covering Commvault Connections 21. And we're going to look at the data protection space and how cloud computing has advanced the way we think about backup, recovery and protecting our most critical data. Ranga Rajagopalan who is the Vice President of products at Commvault, and Stephen Orban who's the General Manager of AWS Marketplace & Control Services. Gents! Welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you. >> Thank you, always a pleasure to see you Dave. >> Dave, thanks for having us. Great to be here. >> You're very welcome. Stephen, let's start with you. Look, the cloud has become a staple of digital infrastructure. I don't know where we'd be right now without being able to access enterprise services, IT services remotely, Um, but specifically, how are customers looking at backup and recovery in the cloud? Is it a kind of a replacement for existing strategies? Is it another layer of protection? How are they thinking about that? >> Yeah. Great question, Dave. And again, thanks. Thanks for having me. And I think, you know, look. If you look back to 15 years ago, when the founders of AWS had the hypothesis that many enterprises, governments, and developers were going to want access to on demand, pay as you go, IT resources in the cloud. None of us would have been able to predict that it would have matured and, um, you know become the staple that it has today over the last 15 years. But the reality is that a lot of these are enterprise customers. Many of whom have been doing their own IT infrastructure for the last 10, 20 or or multiple decades do have to kind of figure out how they deal with it. The change management of moving to the cloud, and while a lot of our customers will initially come to us because they're looking to save money or costs. Almost all of them decide to stay and go big because of the speed at which they're able to innovate on behalf of their customers. And when it comes to storage and backup, that just plays right into where they're headed and there's a variety of different techniques that customers use. Whether it be, you know, a lift and shift for a particular set of applications. Or a data center or where it, where they do very much look at how can they replace the backup and recovery that they have on premises in the cloud using solutions like what we're partnering with Commvault to do. Or completely re-imagining their architecture for net new developments that they can really move quickly for, for their customers and, and completely developing something brand new, where it is really a, um, you know a brand new replacement and innovation for, for, for what they've done in the past. >> Great. Thank you, Stephen. Ranga, I want to ask you about the D word, digital. Look, if you're not a digital business today, you're basically out of business. So my question to you Ranga is, is how have you seen customers change the way they think about data protection during what I call the forced March to digital over the last 18, 19 months? Are customers thinking about data protection differently today? >> Definitely Dave, and and thank you for having me and Stephen pleasure to join you on this CUBE interview. First, going back to Stephen's comments, can't agree more. Almost every business that we talk with today has a cloud first strategy, a cloud transmission mandate. And, you know, the reality is back to your digital comment. There are many different paths to the hybrid micro cloud. And different customers. You know, there are different parts of the journey. So as Stephen was saying, most often customers, at least from a data protection perspective. Start the conversation their thinking, hey, I have all these tapes, can I start using cloud as my air gap, long-term retention target. And before they realize they start moving their workloads into the cloud, and none of the backup and recovery facilities are going to change. So you need to continue protecting the cloud, which is where the cloud meta data protection comes in. And then they start innovating around DR Can I use cloud as my DR sites so that, you know, I don't need to meet in another site. So this is all around us, cloud transmissions, all around us. And, and the real essence of this partnership between AWS and Commvault is essentially to drive, and simplify all the paths to the cloud Regardless of whether you're going to use it as a storage target or, you know, your production data center or your DR. Disaster Recovery site. >> Yeah. So really, it's about providing that optionality for customers. I talked to a lot of customers and said, hey, our business resilience strategy was really too focused on DR. I've talked to all the customers at the other end of the spectrum said, we didn't even have a DR strategy. Now we're using the cloud for that. So it's a, it's really all over the map and you want that optionality. So Stephen, >> (Ranga cuts in) >> Go ahead, please. >> And sorry. Ransomware plays a big role in many of these considerations as well, right? Like, it's unfortunately not a question of whether you're going to be hit by ransomware. It's almost become like, what do you do when you're hit by ransomware? And the ability to use the cloud scale to immediately bring up the resources. Use the cloud backers has become a very popular choice simply because of the speed with which you can bring the business back to normal operations. The agility and the power that cloud brings to the table. >> Yeah. Ransomware is scary. You don't, you don't even need a high school degree diploma to be a ransomware-ist. You could just go on the dark web and buy ransomware as a service and do bad things. And hopefully you'll end up in jail. Stephen, we know about the success of the AWS Marketplace. You guys are partnering here. I'm interested in how that partnership, you know, kind of where it started and how it's evolving. >> Yeah. And happy to highlight on that. So look, when we, when we started AWS or when the founders of AWS started AWS, as I said, 15 years ago. We realized very early on that while we were going to be able to provide a number of tools for customers to have on demand access to compute storage, networking databases, that many particularly, enterprise and government government customers still use a wide range of tools and solutions from hundreds, if not in some cases, thousands of different partners. I mean, I talked to enterprises who who literally used thousands of of different vendors to help them deliver those solutions for their customers. So almost 10 years ago, we're almost at our 10 year anniversary for AWS Marketplace. We launched the first instantiation of AWS Marketplace, which allowed builders and customers to find, try, buy, and then deploy third-party software solutions running on Amazon Machine Instances, also known as AMI's. Natively, right in their AWS and cloud accounts to compliment what they were doing in the cloud. And over the last, nearly 10 years, we've evolved quite a bit. To the point where we support software in multiple different packaging types. Whether it be Amazon Machine Instances, containers, machine learning models, and of course, SAS and the rise of software as a service, so customers don't have to manage the software themselves. But we also support a data products through the AWS data exchange and professional services for customers who want to get services to help them integrate the software into their environments. And we now do that across a wide range of procurement options. So what used to be pay as you go Amazon Machine Instances now includes multiple different ways to contract directly. The customer can do that directly with the vendor, with their channel partner or using kind of our, our public e-commerce capabilities. And we're super excited, um, over the last couple of months, we've been partnering with Commvault to get their industry leading backup and recovery solutions listed on AWS Marketplace. Which is available for our collective customers now. So not only do they have access to Commvault's awesome solutions to help them protect against ransomware, as we talked about and, and to manage their backup and recovery environments. But they can find and deploy that directly in one click right into their AWS accounts and consolidate their, their billing relationship right on the AWS invoice. And it's been awesome to work with with Ranga and the, and the product teams at Commvault to really expose those capabilities where Commvault's using a lot of different AWS services to, to provide a really great native experience for our collective customers as they migrate to the cloud. >> Yeah. The Marketplace has been amazing. We've watched it evolve over the past decade and it's just, it's a key characteristic of cloud. Everybody has a cloud today, right? Ah, we're a cloud too, but Marketplace is unique in, in, in that it's the power of the ecosystem versus the resources of one. And Ranga, I wonder if from your perspective, if you could talk about the partnership with AWS from your view, and and specifically you've got some hard news. Would, if you could, talk about that as well. >> Absolutely. So the partnership has been extending for more than 12 years, right? So AWS and Commvault have been bringing together solutions that help customers solve the data management challenges and everything that we've been doing has been driven by the customer demand that we see, right. Customers are moving their workloads to the cloud. They are finding new ways of deploying the workloads and protecting them. You know, earlier we introduced cloud native integration with the EBS AVI's which has driven almost 70% performance improvements in backup and restore. When you look at huge customers like Coca-Cola, who have standardized on AWS and Commvault, that is the scale that they want to operate on. They manage around one through 3,000 snapshots, 1200 easy, two instances across six regions, but with just one resource dedicated for the data management strategy, right? So that's where the real built-in integration comes into play. And we've been extending it to make use of the cloud efficiencies like power management and auto-scale, and so on. Another aspect is our commitment to a radically simple customer experience. And that's, you know, I'm sure Stephen would agree. It's a big mantra at AWS as well. That's really, together, the customer demand that's brought us together to introduce combo into the AWS Marketplace, exactly the way Stephen described it. Now the hot announcement is calmer, backup and recovery is available in AWS Marketplace. So the exact four steps that Stephen mentioned: find, try, buy, and deploy everything simplified to the Marketplace so that our AWS customers can start using our more backup software in less than 20 minutes. A 60 day trial version is included in the product through Marketplace. And, you know, it's a single click buy. We use the cloud formation templates to deploy. So it becomes a super simple approach to protect the AWS workloads. And we protect a lot of them starting from EC2, RDS DynamoDB, DocumentDB, you know, the, the containers, the list just keeps going on. So it becomes a very natural extension for our customers to make it super simple, to start using Commvault data protection for the AWS workloads. >> Well, the Commvault stack is very robust. You have an extremely mature stack. I want to, I'm curious as to how this sort of came about? I mean, it had to be customer driven, I'm sure. When your customers say, hey, we're moving to the cloud, we had a lot of workloads in the cloud. We're a Commvault customer, that intersection between Commvault and AWS customer. So, so again, I presume this was customer driven, but maybe you can give us a little insight and add some color to that, Ranga. >> Every everything, you know, in this collaboration has been customer driven. We were earlier talking about the multiple paths to cloud and a very good example, and Stephen might probably add more color from his own experience at Dow Jones, but I I'll, I'll bring it to reference Parsons. Who's, you know, civil engineering leader. They started with the cloud first mandate saying, we need to start moving all our backups to the cloud, but we averted that bad actors might find it easy to go and access the backups. AWS and Commvault came together with AWS security features and Commvault brought in its own authorization controls. And now we are moved more than 14 petabytes of backup data into the cloud, and it's sort of as that, not even the backup administrators can go and patch the backups without multiple levels of authorization, right? So the customer needs, whether it is from a security perspective, performance perspective, or in this case from a simplicity perspective is really what is driving us and, and the need came exactly like that. There are many customers who have now standardized on AWS, they want to find everything related to this Marketplace. They want to use their existing, you know, the AWS contracts and also bring data strategy as part of that. So that, that's the real driver behind this. Stephen and I were hoping that we could actually announce some of the customers that have actively started using it. You know, many notable customers have been behind this innovation. And Stephen I don't know if you wanted to add more to that. >> I would just, I would just add Dave, you know, like if I look back before I joined AWS seven years ago, I was the CIO at Dow Jones. And I was leading a, a fairly big cloud migration there over a number of years. And one of the impetuses for us moving to the cloud in the first place was when Hurricane Sandy hit, we had a real disaster recovery scenario in one of our New Jersey data centers. And we had to act pretty quickly. Commvault was, was part of that solution. And I remember very clearly, even back then, back in 2013, there being options available to help us accelerate our move to the cloud. And, and just to reiterate some of the stuff that Ranga was talking about, you know, Commvault's done a great job over the last, more than a decade. Taking features from things like EBS, and S3, and TC2 and some of our networking capabilities and embedding them directly into their services so that customers are able to, you know, more quickly move their backup and recovery workloads to the cloud. So each and every one of those features was, is a result of, I'm sure, Commvault working backwards from their customer needs just as we do at AWS. And we're super excited to take that to the next level, to give customers the option to then also buy that right on their AWS invoice on AWS Marketplace. >> Yeah. I mean, we're going to have to leave it there. Stephen you've mentioned this several times, there's sort of the early days of AWS. We went back then we were talking about gigabytes and terabytes, and now we're talking about petabytes and beyond. Guys thanks so much. We really appreciate your time and sharing the news with us. >> Dave, thanks for having us. >> All right, keep it right there more from Commvault Connections 21, you're watching theCUBE.

>>from >>around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent >>2020 sponsored >>by Intel, AWS and our community >>partners. >>Hi. And welcome to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. I'm your host, Justin Warren. And today I am joined by two lovely gentlemen. We have Brian Cahill from a company called Frog Slur, which is interesting. And we also have Chad Kenny from Clooney. Oh, gentlemen, welcome to AWS reinvent 2020 Chad, It's bean about what A year since I think we last spoke at at reinvent last year. Why don't you catch us up on what's been happening in the last year of the Korean Times >>s? Um we're excited to be here. Justin, thanks so much for the introduction and hosting us. So it's been an exciting action back here. I will say we've had a bunch of new innovations. I think last time we talked, we were just getting our first native solution inside of AWS for EBS. And since then we've evolved the dissolution dramatically. Claudio is ah, secure backup is a service offering for the enterprise, and this allowed us to be able to scale from just EBS into being the industry's first platform to go across public, private and SAS all in one service, >>and >>we innovated within AWS a ton. So we expanded from CBS Thio, Easy to and RDS. We brought in one of the most native services Outside of snapshots. We kind of progress the enterprise from the traditional snapshot primitive into a true enterprise class Back up on built in a time series Data Lake that allows, you know, enterprises to decouple their data from the infrastructure and really be able to provide tons of value into the future. So it's an exciting time for us. Toe, you know, really bring new innovative solutions to the market. >>That's an impressive amount of work given whatever else has been going on in the last 12 months, Teoh be able to ship that much stuff. You've been really, really busy. Um, brought Brian on now. Brian Frog Slayer. Tell me. Tell me a bit about the background for the name of the company they >>frogs layer. The name actually came from a initial founder who, you know, was trying to protect the animals, wanted to take care of nature and stuff and actually stepped on frog. So you got nicknamed by his buddies frogs here and that, then became the company name. >>So tell us about frogs layer. What is it that and your role there. What is it the Frog Slayer does? And what's your role there? >>Frogs there does business consulting. And then we developed custom software star goals to help businesses get past ah, hurdle. So a growth business that's that's kind of stuck make them more efficient, more productive thing kind of move to the next level. And my role here is the head of I t. That custom software rebuild we host for our clients. And so we try to offer to them is a SAS solution. So it's not only a custom software, but it's kind of offered a SAS solution them to consume. >>Terrific. So >>how long has >>the relationship with Clooney I've been going on? >>It's been about four months now, >>all right. And how did you get introduced Thio chat on the team in Colombia? >>Um, we started with AWS writing our own backup scripts and as we started to move more of their past services like RDS and then RDS went to serve Earless and Aurora the You just have to keep upgrading and changing and tweaking your scripts. And so we started looking round to say, Is there, uh is there a software we could use instead of doing this ourselves? And so through a bar, we got connected with Clooney? Oh, we're checking out a whole bunch of solutions. And most of them were snapshot managers just using the a p i s to do the same things we were doing. Whereas Clooney I was doing it totally differently where they would actually take a snapshot and then rehydrate it, take that data and then make it more like a traditional backup where you could d duplicate it and save on costs and stuff. >>Right? Okay, so, Chad, is that something that you've been? Is that one of the many features that you've added in the last 12 months? Or is this something that a little more fundamental to the way Columbia works? It's >>very fundamental. I think what we're doing is both doing efficiencies around the data itself. So do you do compression and, of course, security around encryption. But we ingest the data index and catalog it on, then make it so that customers could get fine grained granularity for how they restore even down to the database record. And so one of the big things that we've seen, especially in Cloud First customers such as frogs Layer is they're really trying to use either the native tools to start with or build your own type. Models on the costs increased dramatically. The complexity of not having a catalog and index make restores incredibly hard. Andi. It just becomes, ah, much more painful model of hidden costs, left and right. And so what we wanted to do was really provide unique simplicity to be able to protect all of the AWS accounts and even all of the data assets across clouds in one single pane of glass and give a user experience that was dramatically different than having to run very scripts or build your own or have a tool on prim and have a different tool for this cloud versus another cloud. And by having this consolidated index obviously drive a ton of value around leverage from the data, >>Hmm, >>interesting. So, Brian, you mentioned that this is your relationship with Colombia has Bean only about sort of four months that sort of smack in the middle of the pandemic that's been going on here was Was that a trigger for you looking at alternate options? Or were Or is this something that you've been planning for a while? >>No. This has been on a road map for a little while. Um, just as we start using more AWS services and trying to figure out how do we scale what we're doing? Um, we're looking for Mormon Enterprise Backup. But then, as we looked around most the backup solutions, you end up hosting the software upgrade in the software and maintaining things on. >>Have you noticed a major change since you've been using Colombia? >>Yes, What Cuneo offered was the ability to because it's a fast solution. It's a There's an air gap between us and the backup, so I'm not hosting the backups or the data. It's in a separate account, and I can't even delete it. So there's kind of a protection level that someone who are and can't accidentally delete the stuff we're backing up >>right? And one thing that I've noticed is in the news a lot more over the last couple of days. But it's certainly been hitting a lot this year is the idea of ransomware. So a lot of customers that certainly that I speak to have been quite concerned that what's going on with that? So how are you Brian addressing that within your organization? Do you feel comfortable that you're well protected and what else are you looking at? But you're trying to protect yourselves from >>right when it comes to ransom, where we try to have our client data in such a way that no one person can access or delete all of it. And so that's where we initially had separate AWS accounts for every client and with Columbia we now have Colonial maintains that separation. So they're keeping that air gap for us. And then, you know, we're doing our own stuff internally. Just make sure we don't get something. But the backups, including our kind of that second step for say something, gets past all of our safeguards. We've got another safeguard in place that >>sounds pretty prudent. So, Chad, is that is that something that you're hearing from a lot of customers? The need for this separation of powers within the system? >>Yeah, it's coming up quite often. And I think one of the big challenges here is to deliver an air gap solution with other types of data protection products. Whether it's on primer in the cloud have a ton of complexity to it, whether you're buying a separate appliance and you have to create a network air gap or whether you're actually replicating from one AWS account into another AWS account, the cost just double. And so what we built in was a system that not only is immutable, but as Brian mentioned, there's no ability to actually delete the data because the timeto live for the data that's persisted is defined by the policy. And so if a bad actor was to get into the environment, there's no way that they could potentially go into our system and actually delete anything. But if you look at like AWS as an example, if most customers they're storing snapshots inside their account as a hole on theirs, vulnerabilities even beyond, you know, ran somewhere and just on accident or a bad actor even inside the environment that's not even ran somewhere. And so protecting that is one of the key capabilities of the platform where We're outside of the service outside of the cloud, in many cases to protect the customer's data on make sure that they can restore it to any account in the event that even a bad actor gets access to it. Yeah. So, Brian, one thing >>that I like to ask customers about, particularly and cloud services is they've changed the way that we do things. And why Why we started using cloud is often not what we're actually using it for today. So with respect to Cuneo and your services that you're running in cloud, what's something that you've noticed that you're now doing? That surprises you? One of those added bonus is that you weren't really expecting. Have you seen anything like that? As you've managed Thio to start using Clooney Oh, that did everything that you wanted it to do. And now you're finding there's these new opportunities. >>Yeah. One of the big advantages of Colombia was when we took snapshots and replicated them out of the source AWS account. It's like in the source account. There was d duplication enabled. Once you replicated to another AWS account, it re hydrates the snapshot. So everyone takes up the full amount of space And to start hitting this like, how much data do I retain versus like, Oh, this is really expensive. I should like, you know, lower my retention. And we just that totally went away with Clooney. Oh, and then as far as the cloud is, the whole what's cool is that they're kind of more past services. So rds where I don't maintain, you know, patches on the O. S or on the sequel or yours, um, application service where you're not maintaining the OS. That's kind of moving at the next level up faras less less that you're maintaining your more maintaining your code in your application, >>right? And how important is the cloud native capability of Columbia? There's plenty of backup solutions around, and we've We've had them for many years because data protection is not a new idea. Ah, lot of a lot of what other side now cloud native. We try to put things into the cloud first. How important is it? Toe have something which understands cloud native >>and it basically means they're totally aware of what we're doing. And so they're not trying to take an old solution and make it fit in the cloud. They built it for the cloud from the ground up. So when you get in there user interface, there's not all of these old buttons and knobs and stuff. It's very simple. It's a policy, a tag. And then inside the account, the tag grabs objects. So they've made a very simple user interface that's saves a lot of time on implementation. >>Excellent. What are some of the things that you're looking to do in the future now that you've better things in and you've now got four months of solid experience with the product? What are you anticipating that you're going to be doing next? >>Um, we're excited about We're starting. But some are customers in a jurors cloud with Clooney was developing capabilities for that, and then Colombia is also working on capabilities for some of our business applications. So the idea of having all of our kind of backups in one place and less separate buckets you've got to go manages exciting. >>Yes, so Chad multi cloud hybrid cloud. Their words sort of called to be the controversy over the over the years. It does certainly sound like a lot of customers they're using, or at least exploring multiple, different options on Certainly for yourselves, you'll have customers who exist in in one cloud and others that will be in a different one. So how are you addressing the idea of of hybrid cloud and multi cloud? >>Great question. So our belief is that data is going to disperse itself Mawr and Mawr, especially as time goes on and there's multiple faces, this kind of cloud adoption that we see we see kind of, you know, the initial lift into Public Cloud, which kind of created that first hybrid example than theirs. You know the optimization within the clouds, so they're looking for cost reduction and operational izing. And then it's kind of like looking at ways of how doe I utilize different clouds for different things that may be mawr operationalized arm or optimized than others. And so we really believe in this world of creating a single platform or fabric that goes and expands across all clouds, consolidates and index and catalog into one view for the end user, and allows them to be able to push data to any cloud that they need to longer term. And at the same time, protect it. The fun part about migrations is yeah, you could move data, but when you're protecting it at the same time to it allows you to actually keep your production up and running, restore a dev environment somewhere else to play around with it and do it in multiple different potential clouds on then have that initial data that's still fully protected in your environment. And so I'd say that the protection side is a really cool on. The second one is Brian mentioned was the whole Data Lake concept that sits behind where we decouple the data from the infrastructure and with past services. This is incredibly important because, let's say, a year and a half from now, the database engines not even supported with the snapshot that you have left over in your account you've been retaining, you've not got to go through the process of upgrading and getting it up to the rev toe actually even get it working in our world, we create logical backups of those data sets, and they're instantaneously available for direct query access, even right in the gooey. And so now this decoupling of infrastructure brings significant value, right now but into the future. This opens up opportunities to be able to do et al pipelines and actually levers the data well beyond back up into other use cases, >>sort of to finish up looking forward. Always, like Thio have a bit of a view of what the future future holds. Its one of my favorite parts of being at reinvent is we get to see the new technology and and what the possibilities are for for what we could use. It takes something, take it home, have a bit of a play with it and and see what we could do for next year. So but if you Brian, we'll start with you. What are you looking forward to in 2021? What do your your future plans? >>Looking forward to migrating mawr of our stuff toe platform as a service offerings where we're taking advantage of the fact that the cloud has built some of the base layers and we could just build on top of that and then the second one that's exciting is the scalability. So with a B, A s, a server lists and the other land and different things that they're running out where we don't need to run physically. See two instances, air always on databases, but things that can scale up and down based on our client workload. That's just exciting as far as our infrastructure and and just the ability for cost savings, but also that just just in time, scaling for our customer demand >>and chad yourselves at Columbia What what can we Can you give us a hint of what we we might see in 2021 from Clooney? Oh, >>yes. So the first thing I'd say that I'm most excited about any New Year is just seeing the advantages customers get with the platform, right? Like we did a lot of innovation during this time. I'd say Cove, it had, you know, some benefits and some downsides from just company growth and, you know, not being close together and having that feeling. But we innovated incredibly quickly, and we were heads down and highly efficient, and eso I'm excited about really showcasing a lot of the innovation that we built during this year, and I think our customers are moving to the cloud faster than ever. And so I'm excited toe to see a lot of that. What you'll see from us is more and more innovation outside of just, you know, the traditional realm. Changing the user experience dramatically with new innovations, which sounds kind of broad. But think of it as creating more and more of that fabric. We're going to get into new public clouds. We're going to get into new SAS services. We're going to expand the user experience in the core platform for recover ability, for security, for enabling easy work flows for various different use cases. And so I'm excited about taking the data and really leveraging it into multiple different use cases outside of data protection on into the future. >>Well, it sounds like we have a lot to look forward to from Cuneo. I I personally look forward to hearing more about it. Hopefully we get to catch up. Ah, little bit earlier, Not not quite. Wait a full 12 months between reinvents, but if not, we'll definitely be seeing you again next year and and hearing about all of the new innovations that you've managed to come up with. You've got 12 months. There's plenty of time. Yeah, definitely Awesome. Sorry. Thank you very much. Brian Brian Kale from Frogs Layer and Pritchard, Kenny from Clooney. Oh, did my guest today. I've been Justin Warren for the Cube and all of our coverage here for AWS reinvent 2020. Do check out all the rest of the videos on. We will see you next time. >>Take care, Yeah.

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a CUBE conversation. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with the CUBE, coming to you from our Palo Alto studios today for a CUBE conversation. we've got a couple of a CUBE alumni veterans who've been on a lot of times. They've got some exciting announcements to tell us today, so we're excited to jump into it, So let's go. First we're joined by Eric Herzog. He's the CMO and VP worldwide storage channels for IBM Storage, made his time on theCUBE Eric, great to see you. >> Great, thanks very much for having us today. >> Jeff: Absolutely. And joining him, I think all the way from North Carolina, Sam Werner, the VP of, and offering manager business line executive storage for IBM. Sam, great to see you as well. >> Great to be here, thank you. >> Absolutely. So let's jump into it. So Sam you're in North Carolina, I think that's where the Red Hat people are. You guys have Red Hat, a lot of conversations about containers, containers are going nuts. We know containers are going nuts and it was Docker and then Kubernetes. And really a lot of traction. Wonder if you can reflect on, on what you see from your point of view and how that impacts what you guys are working on. >> Yeah, you know, it's interesting. We talk, everybody hears about containers constantly. Obviously it's a hot part of digital transformation. What's interesting about it though is most of those initiatives are being driven out of business lines. I spend a lot of time with the people who do infrastructure management, particularly the storage teams, the teams that have to support all of that data in the data center. And they're struggling to be honest with you. These initiatives are coming at them, from application developers and they're being asked to figure out how to deliver the same level of SLAs the same level of performance, governance, security recovery times, availability. And it's a scramble for them to be quite honest they're trying to figure out how to automate their storage. They're trying to figure out how to leverage the investments they've made as they go through a digital transformation and keep in mind, a lot of these initiatives are accelerating right now because of this global pandemic we're living through. I don't know that the strategy's necessarily changed, but there's been an acceleration. So all of a sudden these storage people kind of trying to get up to speed or being thrown right into the mix. So we're working directly with them. You'll see, in some of our announcements, we're helping them, you know, get on that journey and provide the infrastructure their teams need. >> And a lot of this is driven by multicloud and hybrid cloud, which we're seeing, you know, a really aggressive move to before it was kind of this rush to public cloud. And that everybody figured out, "Well maybe public cloud isn't necessarily right for everything." And it's kind of this horses for courses, if you will, with multicloud and hybrid cloud, another kind of complexity thrown into the storage mix that you guys have to deal with. >> Yeah, and that's another big challenge. Now in the early days of cloud, people were lifting and shifting applications trying to get lower capex. And they were also starting to deploy DevOps, in the public cloud in order to improve agility. And what they found is there were a lot of challenges with that, where they thought lifting and shifting an application will lower their capital costs the TCO actually went up significantly. Where they started building new applications in the cloud. They found they were becoming trapped there and they couldn't get the connectivity they needed back into their core applications. So now we're at this point where they're trying to really, transform the rest of it and they're using containers, to modernize the rest of the infrastructure and complete the digital transformation. They want to get into a hybrid cloud environment. What we found is, enterprises get two and a half X more value out of the IT when they use a hybrid multicloud infrastructure model versus an all public cloud model. So what they're trying to figure out is how to piece those different components together. So you need a software-driven storage infrastructure that gives you the flexibility, to deploy in a common way and automate in a common way, both in a public cloud but on premises and give you that flexibility. And that's what we're working on at IBM and with our colleagues at Red Hat. >> So Eric, you've been in the business a long time and you know, it's amazing as it just continues to evolve, continues to evolve this kind of unsexy thing under the covers called storage, which is so foundational. And now as data has become, you know, maybe a liability 'cause I have to buy a bunch of storage. Now it is the core asset of the company. And in fact a lot of valuations on a lot of companies is based on its value, that's data and what they can do. So clearly you've got a couple of aces in the hole you always do. So tell us what you guys are up to at IBM to take advantage of the opportunity. >> Well, what we're doing is we are launching, a number of solutions for various workloads and applications built with a strong container element. For example, a number of solutions about modern data protection cyber resiliency. In fact, we announced last year almost a year ago actually it's only a year ago last week, Sam and I were on stage, and one of our developers did a demo of us protecting data in a container environment. So now we're extending that beyond what we showed a year ago. We have other solutions that involve what we do with AI big data and analytic applications, that are in a container environment. What if I told you, instead of having to replicate and duplicate and have another set of storage right with the OpenShift Container configuration, that you could connect to an existing external exabyte class data lake. So that not only could your container apps get to it, but the existing apps, whether they'll be bare-metal or virtualized, all of them could get to the same data lake. Wow, that's a concept saving time, saving money. One pool of storage that'll work for all those environments. And now that containers are being deployed in production, that's something we're announcing as well. So we've got a lot of announcements today across the board. Most of which are container and some of which are not, for example, LTO-9, the latest high performance and high capacity tape. We're announcing some solutions around there. But the bulk of what we're announcing today, is really on what IBM is doing to continue to be the leader in container storage support. >> And it's great, 'cause you talked about a couple of very specific applications that we hear about all the time. One obviously on the big data and analytics side, you know, as that continues to do, to kind of chase history of honor of ultimately getting the right information to the right people at the right time so they can make the right decision. And the other piece you talked about was business continuity and data replication, and to bring people back. And one of the hot topics we've talked to a lot of people about now is kind of this shift in a security threat around ransomware. And the fact that these guys are a little bit more sophisticated and will actually go after your backup before they let you know that they're into your primary storage. So these are two, really important market areas that we could see continue activity, as all the people that we talk to every day. You must be seeing the same thing. >> Absolutely we are indeed. You know, containers are the wave. I'm a native California and I'm coming to you from Silicon Valley and you don't fight the wave, you ride it. So at IBM we're doing that. We've been the leader in container storage. We, as you know, way back when we invented the hard drive, which is the foundation of almost this entire storage industry and we were responsible for that. So we're making sure that as container is the coming wave that we are riding that in and doing the right things for our customers, for our channel partners that support those customers, whether they be existing customers, and obviously, with this move to containers, is going to be some people searching for probably a new vendor. And that's something that's going to go right into our wheelhouse because of the things we're doing. And some of our capabilities, for example, with our FlashSystems, with our Spectrum Virtualize, we're actually going to be able to support CSI snapshots not only for IBM Storage, but our Spectrum Virtualize products supports over 500 different arrays, most of which aren't ours. So if you got that old EMC VNX2 or that HPE, 3PAR or aNimble or all kinds of other storage, if you need CSI snapshot support, you can get it from IBM, with our Spectrum Virtualize software that runs on our FlashSystems, which of course cuts capex and opex, in a heterogeneous environment, but gives them that advanced container support that they don't get, because they're on older product from, you know, another vendor. We're making sure that we can pull our storage and even our competitor storage into the world of containers and do it in the right way for the end user. >> That's great. Sam, I want to go back to you and talk about the relationship with the Red Hat. I think it was about a year ago, I don't have my notes in front of me, when IBM purchased Red Hat. Clearly you guys have been working very closely together. What does that mean for you? You've been in the business for a long time. You've been at IBM for a long time, to have a partner you know, kind of embed with you, with Red Hat and bringing some of their capabilities into your portfolio. >> It's been an incredible experience, and I always say my friends at Red Hat because we spend so much time together. We're looking at now, leveraging a community that's really on the front edge of this movement to containers. They bring that, along with their experience around storage and containers, along with the years and years of enterprise class storage delivery that we have in the IBM Storage portfolio. And we're bringing those pieces together. And this is a case of truly one plus one equals three. And you know, an example you'll see in this announcement is the integration of our data protection portfolio with their container native storage. We allow you to in any environment, take a snapshot of that data. You know, this move towards modern data protection is all about a movement to doing data protection in a different way which is about leveraging snapshots, taking instant copies of data that are application aware, allowing you to reuse and mount that data for different purposes, be able to protect yourself from ransomware. Our data protection portfolio has industry leading ransomware protection and detection in it. So we'll actually detect it before it becomes a problem. We're taking that, industry leading data protection software and we are integrating it into Red Hat, Container Native Storage, giving you the ability to solve one of the biggest challenges in this digital transformation which is backing up your data. Now that you're moving towards, stateful containers and persistent storage. So that's one area we're collaborating. We're working on ensuring that our storage arrays, that Eric was talking about, that they integrate tightly with OpenShift and that they also work again with, OpenShift Container Storage, the Cloud Native Storage portfolio from, Red Hat. So we're bringing these pieces together. And on top of that, we're doing some really, interesting things with licensing. We allow you to consume the Red Hat Storage portfolio along with the IBM software-defined Storage portfolio under a single license. And you can deploy the different pieces you need, under one single license. So you get this ultimate investment protection and ability to deploy anywhere. So we're, I think we're adding a lot of value for our customers and helping them on this journey. >> Yeah Eric, I wonder if you could share your perspective on multicloud management. I know that's a big piece of what you guys are behind and it's a big piece of kind of the real world as we've kind of gotten through the hype and now we're into production, and it is a multicloud world and it is, you got to manage this stuff it's all over the place. I wonder if you could speak to kind of how that challenge you know, factors into your design decisions and how you guys are about, you know, kind of the future. >> Well we've done this in a couple of ways in things that are coming out in this launch. First of all, IBM has produced with a container-centric model, what they call the Multicloud Manager. It's the IBM Cloud Pak for multicloud management. That product is designed to manage multiple clouds not just the IBM Cloud, but Amazon, Azure, et cetera. What we've done is taken our Spectrum Protect Plus and we've integrated it into the multicloud manager. So what that means, to save time, to save money and make it easier to use, when the customer is in the multicloud manager, they can actually select Spectrum Protect Plus, launch it and then start to protect data. So that's one thing we've done in this launch. The other thing we've done is integrate the capability of IBM Spectrum Virtualize, running in a FlashSystem to also take the capability of supporting OCP, the OpenShift Container Platform in a Clustered environment. So what we can do there, is on-premise, if there really was an earthquake in Silicon Valley right now, that OpenShift is sitting on a server. The servers just got crushed by the roof when it caved in. So you want to make sure you've got disaster recovery. So what we can do is take that OpenShift Container Platform Cluster, we can support it with our Spectrum Virtualize software running on our FlashSystem, just like we can do heterogeneous storage that's not ours, in this case, we're doing it with Red Hat. And then what we can do is to provide disaster recovery and business continuity to different cloud vendors not just to IBM Cloud, but to several cloud vendors. We can give them the capability of replicating and protecting that Cluster to a cloud configuration. So if there really was an earthquake, they could then go to the cloud, they could recover that Red Hat Cluster, to a different data center and run it on-prem. So we're not only doing the integration with a multicloud manager, which is multicloud-centric allowing ease of use with our Spectrum Protect Plus, but incase of a really tough situation of fire in a data center, earthquake, hurricane, whatever, the Red Hat OpenShift Cluster can be replicated out to a cloud, with our Spectrum Virtualize Software. So in most, in both cases, multicloud examples because in the first one of course the multicloud manager is designed and does support multiple clouds. In the second example, we support multiple clouds where our Spectrum Virtualize for public clouds software so you can take that OpenShift Cluster replicate it and not just deal with one cloud vendor but with several. So showing that multicloud management is important and then leverage that in this launch with a very strong element of container centricity. >> Right >> Yeah, I just want to add, you know, and I'm glad you brought that up Eric, this whole multicloud capability with, the Spectrum Virtualize. And I could see the same for our Spectrum Scale Family, which is our storage infrastructure for AI and big data. We actually, in this announcement have containerized the client making it very simple to deploy in Kubernetes Cluster. But one of the really special things about Spectrum Scale is it's active file management. This allows you to build out a file system not only on-premises for your, Kubernetes Cluster but you can actually extend that to a public cloud and it automatically will extend the file system. If you were to go into a public cloud marketplace which it's available in more than one, you can go in there click deploy, for example, in AWS Marketplace, click deploy it will deploy your Spectrum Scale Cluster. You've now extended your file system from on-prem into the cloud. If you need to access any of that data, you can access it and it will automatically cash you on locally and we'll manage all the file access for you. >> Yeah, it's an interesting kind of paradox between, you know, kind of the complexity of what's going on in the back end, but really trying to deliver simplicity on the front end. Again, this ultimate goal of getting the right data to the right person at the right time. You just had a blog post Eric recently, that you talked about every piece of data isn't equal. And I think it's really highlighted in this conversation we just had about recovery and how you prioritize and how you, you know, think about, your data because you know, the relative value of any particular piece might be highly variable, which should drive the way that you treated in your system. So I wonder if you can speak a little bit, you know, to helping people think about data in the right way. As you know, they both have all their operational data which they've always had, but now they've got all this unstructured data that's coming in like crazy and all data isn't created equal, as you said. And if there is an earthquake or there is a ransomware attack, you need to be smart about what you have available to bring back quickly. And maybe what's not quite so important. >> Well, I think the key thing, let me go to, you know a modern data protection term. These are two very technical terms was, one is the recovery time. How long does it take you to get that data back? And the second one is the recovery point, at what point in time, are you recovering the data from? And the reason those are critical, is when you look at your datasets, whether you replicate, you snap, you do a backup. The key thing you've got to figure out is what is my recovery time? How long is it going to take me? What's my recovery point. Obviously in certain industries you want to recover as rapidly as possible. And you also want to have the absolute most recent data. So then once you know what it takes you to do that, okay from an RPO and an RTO perspective, recovery point objective, recovery time objective. Once you know that, then you need to look at your datasets and look at what does it take to run the company if there really was a fire and your data center was destroyed. So you take a look at those datasets, you see what are the ones that I need to recover first, to keep the company up and rolling. So let's take an example, the sales database or the support database. I would say those are pretty critical to almost any company, whether you'd be a high-tech company, whether you'd be a furniture company, whether you'd be a delivery company. However, there also is probably a database of assets. For example, IBM is a big company. We have buildings all over, well, guess what? We don't lease a chair or a table or a whiteboard. We buy them. Those are physical assets that the company has to pay, you know, do write downs on and all this other stuff, they need to track it. If we close a building, we need to move the desk to another building. Like even if we leasing a building now, the furniture is ours, right? So does an asset database need to be recovered instantaneously? Probably not. So we should focus on another thing. So let's say on a bank. Banks are both online and brick and mortar. I happened to be a Wells Fargo person. So guess what? There's Wells Fargo banks, two of them in the city I'm in, okay? So, the assets of the money, in this case now, I don't think the brick and mortar of the building of Wells Fargo or their desks in there but now you're talking financial assets or their high velocity trading apps. Those things need to be recovered almost instantaneously. And that's what you need to do when you're looking at datasets, is figure out what's critical to the business to keep it up and rolling, what's the next most critical. And you do it in basically the way you would tear anything. What's the most important thing, what's the next most important thing. It doesn't matter how you approach your job, how you used to approach school, what are the classes I have to get an A and what classes can I not get an A and depending on what your major was, all that sort of stuff, you're setting priorities, right? And the dataset, since data is the most critical asset of any company, whether it's a Global Fortune 500 or whether it's Herzog Cigar Store, all of those assets, that data is the most valuable. So you've got to make sure, recover what you need as rapidly as you need it. But you can't recover all of it. You just, there's just no way to do that. So that's why you really ranked the importance of the data to use sameware, with malware and ransomware. If you have a malware or ransomware attack, certain data you need to recover as soon as you can. So if there, for example, as a, in fact there was one Jeff, here in Silicon Valley as well. You've probably read about the University of California San Francisco, ended up having to pay over a million dollars of ransom because some of the data related to COVID research University of California, San Francisco, it was the health care center for the University of California in Northern California. They are working on COVID and guess what? The stuff was held for ransom. They had no choice, but to pay them. And they really did pay, this is around end of June, of this year. So, okay, you don't really want to do that. >> Jeff: Right >> So you need to look at everything from malware and ransomware, the importance of the data. And that's how you figure this stuff out, whether be in a container environment, a traditional environment or virtualized environment. And that's why data protection is so important. And with this launch, not only are we doing the data protection we've been doing for years, but now taking it to the heart of the new wave, which is the wave of containers. >> Yeah, let me add just quickly on that Eric. So think about those different cases you talked about. You're probably going to want for your mission critically. You're going to want snapshots of that data that can be recovered near instantaneously. And then, for some of your data, you might decide you want to store it out in cloud. And with Spectrum Protect, we just announced our ability to now store data out in Google cloud. In addition to, we already supported AWS Azure IBM Cloud, in various on-prem object stores. So we already provided that capability. And then we're in this announcement talking about LTL-9. And you got to also be smart about which data do you need to keep, according to regulation for long periods of time, or is it just important to archive? You're not going to beat the economics nor the safety of storing data out on tape. But like Eric said, if all of your data is out on tape and you have an event, you're not going to be able to restore it quickly enough at least the mission critical things. And so those are the things that need to be in snapshot. And that's one of the main things we're announcing here for Kubernetes environments is the ability to quickly snapshot application aware backups, of your mission critical data in your Kubernetes environments. It can very quickly to be recovered. >> That's good. So I'll give you the last word then we're going to sign off, we are out of time, but I do want to get this in it's 2020, if I didn't ask the COVID question, I would be in big trouble. So, you know, you've all seen the memes and the jokes about really COVID being an accelerant to digital transformation, not necessarily change, but certainly a huge accelerant. I mean, you guys have a, I'm sure a product roadmap that's baked pretty far and advanced, but I wonder if you can speak to, you know, from your perspective, as COVID has accelerated digital transformation you guys are so foundational to executing that, you know, kind of what is it done in terms of what you're seeing with your customers, you know, kind of the demand and how you're seeing this kind of validation as to an accelerant to move to these better types of architectures? Let's start with you Sam. >> Yeah, you know I, and I think i said this, but I mean the strategy really hasn't changed for the enterprises, but of course it is accelerating it. And I see storage teams more quickly getting into trouble, trying to solve some of these challenges. So we're working closely with them. They're looking for more automation. They have less people in the data center on-premises. They're looking to do more automation simplify the management of the environment. We're doing a lot around Ansible to help them with that. We're accelerating our roadmaps around that sort of integration and automation. They're looking for better visibility into their environments. So we've made a lot of investments around our storage insights SaaS platform, that allows them to get complete visibility into their data center and not just in their data center. We also give them visibility to the stores they're deploying in the cloud. So we're making it easier for them to monitor and manage and automate their storage infrastructure. And then of course, if you look at everything we're doing in this announcement, it's about enabling our software and our storage infrastructure to integrate directly into these new Kubernetes, initiatives. That way as this digital transformation accelerates and application developers are demanding more and more Kubernetes capabilities. They're able to deliver the same SLAs and the same level of security and the same level of governance, that their customers expect from them, but in this new world. So that's what we're doing. If you look at our announcement, you'll see that across, across the sets of capabilities that we're delivering here. >> Eric, we'll give you the last word, and then we're going to go to Eric Cigar Shop, as soon as this is over. (laughs) >> So it's clearly all about storage made simple, in a Kubernetes environment, in a container environment, whether it's block storage, file storage, whether it be object storage and IBM's goal is to offer ever increasing sophisticated services for the enterprise at the same time, make it easier and easier to use and to consume. If you go back to the old days, the storage admins manage X amount of gigabytes, maybe terabytes. Now the same admin is managing 10 petabytes of data. So the data explosion is real across all environments, container environments, even old bare-metal. And of course the not quite so new anymore virtualized environments. The admins need to manage that more and more easily and automated point and click. Use AI based automated tiering. For example, we have with our Easy Tier technology, that automatically moves data when it's hot to the fastest tier. And when it's not as hot, it's cool, it pushes down to a slower tier, but it's all automated. You point and you click. Let's take our migration capabilities. We built it into our software. I buy a new array, I need to migrate the data. You point, you click, and we automatic transparent migration in the background on the fly without taking the servers or the storage down. And we always favor the application workload. So if the application workload is heavy at certain times a day, we slow the migration. At night for sake of argument, If it's a company that is not truly 24 by seven, you know, heavily 24 by seven, and at night, it slows down, we accelerate the migration. All about automation. We've done it with Ansible, here in this launch, we've done it with additional integration with other platforms. So our Spectrum Scale for example, can use the OpenShift management framework to configure and to grow our Spectrum Scale or elastic storage system clusters. We've done it, in this case with our Spectrum Protect Plus, as you saw integration into the multicloud manager. So for us, it's storage made simple, incredibly new features all the time, but at the same time we do that, make sure that it's easier and easier to use. And in some cases like with Ansible, not even the real storage people, but God forbid, that DevOps guy messes with a storage and loses that data, wow. So by, if you're using something like Ansible and that Ansible framework, we make sure that essentially the DevOps guy, the test guy, the analytics guy, basically doesn't lose the data and screw up the storage. And that's a big, big issue. So all about storage made simple, in the right way with incredible enterprise features that essentially we make easy and easy to use. We're trying to make everything essentially like your iPhone, that easy to use. That's the goal. And with a lot less storage admins in the world then there has been an incredible storage growth every single year. You'd better make it easy for the same person to manage all that storage. 'Cause it's not shrinking. It is, someone who's sitting at 50 petabytes today, is 150 petabytes the next year and five years from now, they'll be sitting on an exabyte of production data, and they're not going to hire tons of admins. It's going to be the same two or four people that were doing the work. Now they got to manage an exabyte, which is why this storage made simplest is such a strong effort for us with integration, with the Open, with the Kubernetes frameworks or done with OpenShift, heck, even what we used to do in the old days with vCenter Ops from VMware, VASA, VAAI, all those old VMware tools, we made sure tight integration, easy to use, easy to manage, but sophisticated features to go with that. Simplicity is really about how you manage storage. It's not about making your storage dumb. People want smarter and smarter storage. Do you make it smarter, but you make it just easy to use at the same time. >> Right. >> Well, great summary. And I don't think I could do a better job. So I think we'll just leave it right there. So congratulations to both of you and the teams for these announcement after a whole lot of hard work and sweat went in, over the last little while and continued success. And thanks for the, check in, always great to see you. >> Thank you. We love being on theCUBE as always. >> All right, thanks again. All right, he's Eric, he was Sam, I'm I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We'll see you next time, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. Hello and welcome to the Cubes coverage of VMRO 2020 Virtual this The Cube Virtual I'm John for your host, covering all the action for VM World not in person. This year it's virtual, so we're bringing you the virtual interviews remotely. We've got two great guest here. Marc Lemire, senior vice president general manager of the Cloud Services business unit at VM Ware and David Brown is the vice president for two at AWS Amazon Web services. Both Cube alumni's great to see you guys remotely Thanks. Coming on eso i first vm worlds not face to face. Usually it's great event reinvents Also gonna be virtual again. It's, you know, we're gonna get the content out there, but people still gotta know the news is gonna know what's going on. Um, I remember three years ago, I interviewed Pat Kelsey and Andy Jassy in San Francisco on the big announcement of AWS and VM Ware Uh, vm ware on a W s. Really? Since then, what a great partnership Not only has VM where have cleaned up their clarity around cloud. But the business performance mark has been phenomenal. Congratulations. All the data that we're reporting shows customers are leaning into it heavily Great adoption and super happy success. A US congratulations as well for great partnership. Mark three years, Uh, with the industry defining partnership. Ah, lot of people were skeptical. We're on the right side of history, I gotta say, we called >>it. That's right. It's an update. Yeah, No, look, we're super excited. Like you said, It's the third year anniversary of this game changing partnership and look, the relationship could not be stronger right across engineering the product teams to go to market teams really getting stronger and deeper every day. And at the end of the day, you know, of course, what it's about is innovating on behalf of our customers, delivering compelling new capabilities that allow them thio, migrate and modernize. And, you know, look, we're just really pleased with the partnership, right? And I think, as a result of that depth of joint engineering, building and delivering the service together, you know, we're proud to be able to say that it addresses are preferred public cloud partner for the Starbase workloads. >>You know, I remember at the time David talking to Terry Wise Ah, native West Side and Andy, of course on Ragu the architect for this vision of the partnership. And this changed how vm Ware has been doing partnerships on. I want to talk about that because I think that's a great use case of what I call the new cloud native reality that everyone's living in. But before we get there, Mark, there's some news tied around AWS and VM. Where could you take a minute to, uh, share the news around what's going on with VM World 10 0 You got connect. You got all kinds of enhancements. Just the update on the news. >>Yeah, sure. So you know, we continue Thio, listen closely to our customers and continue to deliver them new value, new capabilities and a few things we're gonna highlight at being world. The first is we've heard from many customers, you know, they love the ability to rapidly migrate their visa service workloads to the AWS Cloud and VMC on AWS is really a game changer. From that perspective on dso that continues to be really, really compelling use case for many customers. But what they've also said to us is, Look, it's not just about migrating to the cloud. It's also about migrating and then modernizing. And so, together with AWS, we have really brought together the richest set of tools for our customers to enable them to modernize those applications. Of course, we've talked about before. Customers have access to the full rich set of AWS services on Ben within VM or called on AWS. We're now announcing support for native kubernetes capabilities within VM Ware Cloud in eight of us taking advantage of the VM Ware Tansy Communities, good service. So we're really excited about bringing that that service in particular to our joint customers and then three other kind of key innovation that we're going to be talking about is around networking, right? And as our customer environments get larger and larger and they're looking to create a fairly sophisticated apologies between their on Prem Data Center between multiple VMC and AWS instances and between perhaps multiple native aws vpc s, we've done a lot of work together to really simplify the way that customers can connect all those environments together. Onda, maybe Dave wants toe talk a little about that. >>It did chime in. What's What's the news on your end to? What's the relationship and an update from the Amazon side for VM World? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the partnership has just been incredible working with being where Right, Right? Right from four years ago, when we first started with the idea of what could be a W s and beyond where do together. I think we've seen really deep engineering engagement, but also leadership engagement on support from leadership on both sides was really set. Set us up for the partnership that we have today, which has been phenomenal. You know, Mark was just talking about the transit connect feature that beyond whereas adopting and what you really seen, there is years of innovation on the networking side of the sea to where we've really understood deeply what customers need from a network. Understood the fact that they're trying to recreate some of those large networked apologies that they're doing on premise on, then trying to support them in a cloud way of supporting them in a cloud about, like, way. And so, you know, transit gateways to service under the hood that we released about two years ago. It reinvent. And so what we've been doing with being where he's working out. What is Transit Gateway mean within the VM Ware environment? And so really bringing customers that that rich connectivity that they need? You know, whether it's between the BBC's between the VM Ware environments, even back to on Prem or between regions on DSO. That's what transit connect now on being where it's gonna be utilizing and bringing to customers we're pretty excited about. You know what that means for our customers? >>You know, one of the trends I see coming out all the announcements. David, I want to get your thoughts on it because we talked briefly a few months ago, uh, for your summit virtual. But I want you to kind of put it in context of VM Ware because you're seeing virtualization of physical things. You know, Nick's with Project Monterey and all that stuff with within video and software. You see to you guys have seen this vision not just compute, but you talk about networking. You know, you have the really the first time this convergence of physical own software virtual and This is not new to you guys. I know this is the premise of Amazon Cloud. First, you have the building blocks as three NBC too. But now a slew of other services. But this trend is gonna continue. Certainly with covert and work at home, there's mawr need firm or compute more different kinds of compute. You got the physical layer from the network of the devices. This isn't gonna go away. I mean, I would just need some interviews about Space Force, and they're talking about software to find, um, devices you can't do break fix in the space. So you know all this is gonna be done with software and this idea of the physical virtual coming together I mean, I know I love the Virtual Cube were not in person, which we were. But this virtualization trend around the hardware this is this'll is all about the sea, but the sea spinning for years. How does that relate >>to be inward customer? So, I mean, I think the VM ware customers experience which realization right long before ec2 was around as well. When being we're back in the day with being workstation, uh, it's it's kind of central to what they've been able to do, you know, being able to virtualized environments, being able to stand up environments ready very quickly on a physical machine is what the English board for the customer, Easy to started in a similar place. You know, the strength of the C two is being able to get a B m in a few minutes. Andi, you know, we've just grown the what we can support in a virtualized world. So you think about where we started with very simple machines, you know, today is supporting things like HPC and and advanced. You know, accelerators like GP use. And if p g A s and so we've already pushed the virtual world now, interestingly enough, you know, Vienna is obviously doing the same thing with their hyper visor. You know, many, many happy customers there. The really interesting thing it was through the innovation that we were doing on the easy to side to work out. How do we really get the most out of virtualization? Historically, virtualization is being played with things like jitter and just performance. You couldn't really get the network performance there with CPU would stall and those are sort of the old issues. The cloud in the innovation we've been doing is largely gotten rid of those. And so it's actually almost the the the ability to remove the virtualization from easy to. That really was the ingredient that enabled us to allow VM Ware to run on this. And so that's where it all started. Back in late 2016 we started to work with my team saying, You know, we've actually built the ability through our nitro system, um, to not require our virtualization layer. And then we could replace that virtualization with the VM Ware virtualization layer and that that set us up for what we have today, right? That that made VM ware on AWS a reality that gave the VM Ware customer you know, the full VM ware virtualization support, which is what the applications have been. Both Paul, that's what they've really come. Thio love. I don't want to change all of that when they moved to the cloud and so being able to move those workloads to the cloud for being where you know on on AWS and and get the benefit of great hardware design together with the great opera visor from being where obviously, it's a virtual the end of the day with a lot of innovation that we need to make him that >>mark. I wanna get your thoughts on this because I remember when we again years ago when we covered it again on the right side of history of the prediction, we said It's gonna be a great thing, afraid of us. And the end where some of the other commentary was at that time was Oh, my God. VM was lost at the capitulated Amazon is gonna suck all the thousands and thousands of VM where customers into the cloud and they're gonna eat him up in Vienna. Where is gonna be sitting there? Uh, you know, inside of the road. Okay. Not the case. Your business performance has been exceptional. Okay? The customers have been resonating with the offering. It's been a win win. Can you talk about the business momentum and how this continues to go? Because again, everyone got it wrong on that side. This has been exactly how you guys had heated up. I mean, a little bit here, and they're not exactly, But from a business perspective, it hit the mark. What's your thoughts? >>Yeah. No. Look, we've been incredibly pleased that the customer adoption that we've seen for the service, um, in fact, you know, the total workload count on the service has increased by over 140% versus this time last year, right? So clearly, customers are adopting the service at a large scale on growing rapidly. But I think you sort of feel that killed that back a little bit, right? It's It's really driven by three use cases and the value that we're able to deliver the customers right? And so if you're a customer, that's gotta be severe based workload in your own data center, and you want to move to the AWS Cloud. You know the fastest, lowest cost lowest Chris Way to move that workload is using VM Ware Cloud on AWS, right? And so it's that use case. It's powering a lot of that consumption. Another interesting use case that Xdrive in a lot of demand and that we continue to invest and expand is disaster recovery, right? So there's some customers that still want to run some more clothes in their own data centers, but they'd like to build leverage the public cloud as a target for disaster recovery. And you think about it you're talking about, you know, Cloud delivered as a service and the elasticity and all of those benefits. Those really playoff strongly in the d r use case where you Onley really want to spend up that capacity in the scenario where you actually need it, right in the case of a natural disaster. And so VM were recently acquired a company called Atrium and we're using that technology to enable a new service we call VM Ware. Cloud D are on top of the VMC on AWS offering, and this is a really powerful capability because it allows our customers to significantly reduce the cost of disaster recovery by taking advantage of AWS is low cost s three storage, combined with some unique capabilities in the day trip service that allows us to store the V M. D. K. Is very cost effectively on the next three storage. And then, in the case of a disaster, we can spin up those hosts. You know, they've talked about the nitro host. I've been spin up those bare metal host with the being more hyper visor on it and automatically restart those workloads without requiring any. VM conversion is because, of course, it's all all these fear based, right? So you know, it's so we're really pleased with the business performance, but you know, sort of behind that, of course, is the value that we can deliver to our joint customers together. >>You know, the integration thing is interesting again. I think the success is that there's a partnership at the highest levels and trickles down into engineering. David, talk about what's next for AWS because, you know, after cloud, you've got cloud native integrations. They're gonna be needed across more partners and more customers. Um, but they don't wanna do the heavy lifting, right? So So if I'm a customer like, hey, you know what? I just want Mawr Cloud scale. I want more cloud capabilities, but I don't want to do all this integration. How does how does Amazon view that conversation? Because again, that's one of the things that every interview, every reinvent every time I talk to Andy and the team. It's undifferentiated, heavy lifting what our customers asking for free from from you guys. VM, where customers and What's the What's your thoughts on this? What do you guys thinking about right now? >>Absolutely. I think market head on a couple of key points there as well or at the customer in this case, off. I have a workload today that I run in my data center or running a cola facility, whatever it might be. And I run it for many years, Um, in many cases working with customers in industries like healthcare and finance. You know, where they've actually had these thes applications qualified or certified? I'm to actually one on that hardware. And so, you know, requiring them to move to a different hyper visor is obviously a ready they'd lift and may slow down the ultimate migration to the cloud. Um And so having vm ware cloud on AWS and the ability to say to those customers, you know, just bring your application and you'll workload and and honestly the benefit of the entire ecosystem that VM Ware provides and come and enjoy that on AWS and burst into aws eso that's just been enormously beneficial for our in customer, For AWS is probably aware. I think that's the thing that really makes the partnership incredibly strong. And from there, you know, these customers can pivot. And so one of the things that we've been doing together with Vienna, where is ongoing innovation? Right. So we recently just launched, um, support for our I three n uh storage instance type, which offers up to 50% discount storage per gig with VM ware. And there's a lot that went into that behind the scenes to make sure that that instance type is perfectly tuned for what VM were needed for their end customer. We're very excited to get that out. There are many, many customers so excited about the benefit that that brings to them, right? So they're getting all the benefit of AWS innovation while they keep the benefits that they've been enjoying on the VM Ware side. Um, and you know, that speaks to the largest sort of approach that AWS has taken in in several industries across several industries. Right being where, I think is probably the best example of that. But if you look at many other areas like our networking products, customers will often come to us and say, you know, I love using a certain type of load balance. So I love using this firewall. Um, you know, within my environment. And we have great partnerships of all those companies to say if your customer, while joint customer, wants to use whatever appliance, whatever application, you know, we have a full market place full of thousands of applications that are all certified to run on us. We want to make sure we can meet those customers where they are and simplify the immigration story for them as much as we can. >>All right, So I gotta put you guys on the spot. Mark will start with you, but you can't get the same answer. Um, to the same question. The question is, what are the customers most happy with with the partnership from a feature perspective? What's the one? What? What would you say, Mark, um is the big Ah ha. This really is amazing. I'm so happy because of this feature capability. >>Yeah, yeah, I mean, a little bit back to the discussion we're having before, but I think you know the killer use case Really for the service today is that cloud migration use case I was talking about before. And if you think about what it might have taken them previously. Right? Uh, you know, expensive time consuming. Um, you know, it requires changes to their environment. In some cases, with with VM or cloud on AWS, we could take the cloud migration that would previously been taken them perhaps years, millions or tens of millions of dollars. And we can shrink that down toe literally months, right. We have some customers like m i t. That migrated hundreds of applications literally over a weekend. Right. And we're able to do that because it's the same core enterprise Class V, and where capabilities of the customers already optimized their application to run on in their own data centers that now we've enabled on AWS as a cloud service so that that cloud migration use case kind of combined with the fact that we're, um that were delivered to them as a service in the AWS cloud. I think is, uh, you know, one of the one of the use cases that a lot of customers find extremely attractive. >>Alright, David, your turn from an M. A w s perspective. What are people happy with you for on this partnership? What praises? Are you getting some your way When someone says, Hey, man, this partners has been great. Amazon really is awesome for this. What would you say to that? >>Eso, you know, watch book about the migration I was going to choose sort of, You know, once they're in aws, um, the benefits of the power brakes writes the ability to scale on the mind. E think one of the great things about the record in AWS that VM Ware did is already built it as a cloud native service. And so, you know, the customers are able to provision additional capacity very easily. We have that capacity available on AWS, and so they're able to meet any sort of unexpected demand of scale. Um, and then together with the breadth of services that we have on a diverse is Well, you know, you and we've we thought very carefully about how being were customer would want to consume those and to make sure that the whole system set up to allow that to happen. And so allowing them to to broaden what they're using over time, is there. Engineers and teams find other services that allow them to innovate faster and, you know, bold more interesting applications so that it integrates incredibly well between AWS and VMware and customers benefit from that. >>I wanna ask you guys, um, or in the industry side, um, to comment on cloud native, um, mainly because one we cover it into it's kind of important trend. Um, recently, snowflake went public with the largest i p on the history of the of Wall Street, and it's an enterprise company. Okay, Um, and I was using that as an example because actually being where was the second most popular, uh, Hypo happens to be another enterprise company if and I was commenting on this, and I want to get your reaction to it And that is, is that if you look at the mega trend that's going on now, of all the things people talk about, it's the cloud native That's the most interesting, because this is all the value. If you look at the modern applications all the way down to the networking, everything in between. It's all about cloud native, And it's not just about cloud public cloud. It's not about It's an operating model when we talk about that. But Cloud native is the big wave that people are on. And if you're on it, your modern. This is not just hand waving. It's legit. I mean, you're seeing benefits of it. You're seeing speed, time to value all the things that people talk about, it, the events. Could you guys comment on why Cloud native is so important today and why customers and developers should be really thinking through what that is for them. Um, David will start with you. >>Absolutely. So for us part native really means, you know, have you built your application in a way that takes advantage of the benefits of the cloud? And so are you able to scare the application horizontally? Are you able, Thio? You know, building away That's redundant Across multiple data centers. Are you able to utilize services that are provided by, you know, aws, the cloud provider Thio to not have your teams build that And so what it ultimately means is you're able to spend more time focused on on building stuff that really matters. You know, if your application So you mentioned Snowflake, you know there are a great AWS customer work very closely with them and and they're able Thio, have us around a lot of the infrastructure, all the infrastructure for them in the power. And they can really focus on building an absolutely incredible data, whereas in solution for their end customer and we innovate very closely with them. And so that's really what it means, you know. And I think organizations that have gotten themselves there ready get a lot of benefit. They're able to innovate faster. They're able Thio deliver more to the end customer. You know, we spent a lot of time with companies that you wouldn't say a cloud native today and as a cloud provider, azi exciting as it is to support the cloud native customer, it's also incredibly important that we find a way to support the company. That's on a journey towards adopting the cloud, right? They've got a long history. Maybe they've been around for many, many, many years. Andi, I've got a large application stack that they need to move. And so that's where our migration programs really support customers. You need to bring non card native applications and then we're able to work with them over time to make them, you know, more cloud native and get a lot of those benefits. And so it's a journey that I think many of companies on. Some started there, and some have a way to get their differently. Has a lot of benefit. >>Isn't Snowflake really in Just a example of value creation? I mean, it's not about that. They're on Amazon. You're happy about that. But it shows that you don't have to go a certain way. If you create value, speed, scale speaks for itself. So that's just that could be an enterprise. That could be startup. That could be the Cube. It could be anybody, right? I mean, don't you see it that way? >>Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, they had a great use case that a customer need. It's in a really interesting area, obviously dealing with big data. And so I think you know, there's there's really no limit there, >>Mark. You guys are in the modern app. That's what you're hearing. It's one of the things that people gonna wanna come out of co vid. They're gonna wanna have a growth strategy. Cloud native. Why is it important? And what's your take on this? What's your reaction to the cloud native being the big wave? >>Yeah, I mean, I think. I think Dave said it. You know very well. I mean, when I talked to customers, you know, regardless of where they are in that journey, they all have some form of digital transformation agenda. Right? And at the end of the day, they wanna deliver better services to their end customers because they know that's what different is going to differentiate them. Or they want a better empower their employees, right? And as part of trying to deliver that value to their customers, their employees, you know, they want to focus their time and energy on the things that really differentiate them. Right? And, you know, for many of them that that means, you know, they don't wanna have to worry about, you know, upgrading some infrastructure software, right? That's not that's not delivering value to their to their customers. And so, you know, I think as they go down that journey, you know, we're really pleased to be ableto partner. What they did you ask to be able to create these, uh, you know, these powerful platforms together between VM ware and AWS that really deliver a lot of value to customers and allow them to focus on what's important their business, right? And, you know, by bringing together those enterprise class VM, or capabilities that hundreds of thousands of customers trust for their most mission critical workloads. Combining that with eyes, they have talked about the possibility of agility, the scalability of the dust cloud and then sort of, you know, not just those existing workloads, but also enabling a rich set of new services those customers can take advantage of to modernize. You know, whether it's VM Ware services like I talked about before with our native kubernetes capability built into BMC or whether it's the you know, hundreds and growing portfolio abated bus services, you know, giving them all, giving them the power of that full toolkit as a service so they can focus on building value on top. I mean, that's e think, really they want an equation. But that's why so many customers are moving down that path together with us. >>Well, congratulations. I want to say to you because David Lynch has been digging into the buyer behavior data, looking at the what the budget projections gonna be and VM ware on AWS has been strongly performing, and it's doing really well. Congratulations. And David. Great to have you back on. And you got reinvent less than 60 days away. Can you give us a little taste, teaser and taste of what you got going on? I know you can't reveal, but what kind of generally we're gonna be seeing at reinvent, uh, with E c two and your team >>absolutely reinvents a little different this year. It's It's obviously virtual on, so we're pretty excited about that. We think it will bring a new flavor. And so there's a lot of planning going on both in terms of product delivery. It was a It was a great time of year for us as we finish up a lot about big releases aimed at reinvent, then obviously working on content and presentations. And so, you know, a lot of interesting stuff for customers to think about is that >>they're not revealing anything. You just you know. Okay, you're gonna have some announcements. I'm sure you see two. That's a big announcements. Exactly. Hiding the ball, as they say. David Brown, vice president of Easy to it. Amazon Web services. AWS, Markle, Omar s v P. And GM. A cloud Service business unit at VM Ware. Um, great partnership. Congratulations. We'll be following it. Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. Thank >>you very much. >>Okay, I'm John. For with the Cube. We're here in Palo Alto. Remote for the Cube. Virtual for VM World 2020. Virtual couldn't be face to face. We're doing our best with our cube virtual to get you the content. Thanks for watching.

>>We're back in storage day at Amazon in Boston, on detente with the Cube. Ed name is here. He's the general manager of X ed. Welcome to the Cube. Good to say thanks for having me, Dave. Okay, So explain to me why you guys launched FSX for Windows File server. You know why now? >>Well, we did it because customers asked us to do it. What customers told us was that they were tired of all of the effort and overhead in managing windows, file systems and Windows file servers on their own, everything from routine maintenance, like patching to provisioning. They just didn't wanna have to do all of that heavy lifting. So they asked us for a simple solution. Fully manage solution on the cloud. There's a lot of windows data out there. A lot of data that's access from windows computers. Eight of us is the cloud that has the most windows workloads running on it. So it was a very natural ask for customers to ask us as they're moving their windows workloads onto eight of us to have a file system that's fully managed for them that could be accessed by those workloads. So it was It was actually very natural and, uh, unexpected. Ask from customers, >>you know, love. You may not know that, but it does kind of make sense. Is so much windows out there You're the cloud leader. So peanut butter and jelly. Um, how do you see customers using FSX for Windows? >>Yeah, What's really exciting is they're using it for a really broad spectrum of workloads eso everything from traditional user shares and home directories, Thio development environments to analytics, workloads, tau video, trance coating. So it's a very wide spectrum of workloads that they're on the service and we're continuing to see new new types of workloads every day, which is really exciting. >>So we're hearing stories. What exactly is new around FSX for Windows file service Specifically. >>Yeah, Well, we've launched a number of capabilities this year throughout the year s 01 of the significant ones that we launched was the ability for customers to use their self managed active directories on dhe join their FSX file systems to those. So we now have two options. Customers can use a fully managed AWS fully managed active directory or their own with FSX. We launched a number of capabilities around access from on premises. For example, customers can now access. Or when we launched it, we announced that they could now access their file systems over direct connect connections over VPN so they can access the Windows file systems from computers and from end users that are running on premises. So quite a few announcements this year Those are just two examples, and we're really excited about really a slew of announcements and feature features that we're launching now. And I can get into those if you like, give me some examples of your work. So one of the, uh, the most common questions we've had from customers is. Can we offer a native multi daisy capability, multi availabilities own capability? So a lot of customers are running enterprise grade workloads on FXX, and they want to move more and more of those workloads onto AWS, and they don't wanna have to, ah, manage the overhead of using something like a distributed file system or D F s replication between fsx file systems and different disease. So we're launching a fully managed, super simple, multi easy capability, and that's a deployment options that custom the customers will have in addition to what we already had, which was the single easy deployment options. >>Let me see some recurring themes when you talkto folks at Amazon announced service is it's the it's the same sort of mantra. Be able to reduce that heavy lifting, shift your focus to things that will add more value to your business. Take advantage of these other service is through these integrations that that we're doing. So I mean, it kind of feels like a no brainer, but I give you the last the last word. I mean, is it Why is it why should customers, you know, sell me on why I should move by dated to the cloud? >>Yeah. I mean, we we like to think of it as a no brainer because we are fully managing everything for the customer. Um, the the service is built on top of Windows server, so provides a fully compatible Windows file system, and we've managed that fully four customers, So you get complete compatibility with us and be complete compatibility with Auntie if s file system semantics and features. So it's a very simple move for customers to move their existing workloads onto the service and have it before we managed a couple of the other features that we're launching that I do want to mention our We're launching data D duplication we're launching. Ah, whole bunch of administrative capabilities, like user quotas were extending. Our administrative CIA lied to do things like a lot of customers to create shares programmatically so really a very exciting set of capabilities that we really think make this a ah no brainer for customers. >>Well, that's another recurring themes. You guys, you know, you dropped prices and look at the moors losses. Prices continue to drop. The differences them is on. You make it transparent on DDE. If I use a service is lower cost, my bill goes down and then, of course, I end up using more because this is an elastic world. So that's a good thing. But, Ed, thanks so much for coming on. The key. Thank you. Share is that any other thing is you guys only window specialists. It's just kind of ironic, you know, leader in windows. And, uh, >>well, it really comes from What are our customers are asking us for? So they see moving their windows. Workloads is the first step to the full modernization and being all in on the cloud. >>Great. We'll get exit. Thank you. All right. And thank you for watching everybody right back after this. Short break, Dave. A lot with the Cube.

(upbeat music) [Announcer] From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto, California. This is a CUBE conversation. >> Hi, I'm Peter Burris, and welcome to another CUBE conversation from our studios in beautiful Palo Alto, California. One of the biggest challenges that every user faces is how are they going to arrange their resources that are responsible for storing, managing, delivering, and protecting data. And that's a significant challenge, but it gets even worse when we start talking about multi-cloud. So, today we've got Eric Herzog who's the CMO and VP of Worldwide Storage Channels at IBM Storage to talk a bit about the evolving relationship of what constitutes a modern, comprehensive storage portfolio and multi-cloud. Eric, welcome to theCUBE. >> Peter, Thank you, thank you. >> So, start off, what's happening with IBM Storage these days, and let's get into this kind of how multi-cloud is affecting some of your decisions, and some of your customer's decisions. >> So, what we've done, is we've started talking about multi-cloud over two years ago. When Ed Walsh joined the company as a general manager, we went on an analyst roadshow, in fact, we came here to theCUBE and shot a video, and we talked about how the IBM Storage Division is all about multi-cloud. And we look about that in three ways. First of all, if you are creating a private cloud, we work with you. From a container, whether you're Vmware based, whether you are doing a more traditional cloud- private cloud. Now the modern private cloud, all container based. Second is Hybrid Cloud, data on parem, out to a public cloud provider. And the third aspect, and in fact, you guys have written about it in one of your studies is that no one is going to use one public cloud provider, they're going to use multiple cloud providers. So whether that be IBM Cloud, which of course we love because we're IBM shareholders, but we work with Amazon, we work with Google, and in fact we work with any cloud provider. Our Spectrum Protect backup product, which is one of the most awarded enterprise backup packages can backup to any cloud. In fact, over 350 small to medium cloud providers, the engine for their backup as a service, is Spectrum Protect. Again, completely heterogeneous, we don't care what cloud you use, we support everyone. And we started that mantra two and a half years ago, when Ed first joined the company. >> Now, I remember when you came on, we talked a lot about this notion of data first and the idea that data driven was what we talked about >> Right, data driven. >> And increasingly, we talked about, or we made the observation that enterprises were going to take a look at the natural arrangement of their data, and that was going to influence a lot of their cloud, a lot of their architecture, and certainly a lot of their storage divisions or decisions. How is that playing out? Is that still obtaining? Are you still seeing more enterprises taking this kind of data driven approach to thinking about their overall cloud architectures? >> Well the world is absolutely data-centric. Where does the data go? What are security issues with that data? How is it close to the compute when I need it? How do I archive I, how do I back it up? How do I protect it? We're here in Silicon Valley. I'm a native Palo Alton, by the way, and we really do have earthquakes here, and they really do have earthquakes in Japan and China and there is all kinds of natural disasters. And of course as you guys have pointed out, as have almost all of the analysts, the number one cause of data loss besides humans is actually still fire. Even with fire suppressant data centers. >> And we have fires out here in Northern California too. >> That's true. So, you've got to make sure that you're backing up that data, you're archiving the data. Cloud could be part of that strategy. When does it need to be on parem, when does it need to be off parem? So, it's all about being a data-driven, and companies look at the data, profile the date and time, What sort of storage do I need? Can I go high end, mid-range and entry, profile that data, figure that out, what they need to do. And then do the same thing now with on parem and off parem. For certain data sets, for security reasons, legal reasons you probably are not going to put it out into a public cloud provider. But other data sets are ideal for that and so all of those decisions that are being made by: What's the security of the data? What's the legality of that data? What's the performance I need of that data? And, how often do I need the data? If you're going to constantly go back and forth, pull data back in, going to a public cloud provider, which charge both for in and out of the data, that actually may cost more than buying an Array on parem. And so, everyone's using that data-centricity to figure out how do they spend their money, and how do they optimize the data to use it in their applications, workloads and use cases. >> So, if you think about it, the reality is by application, workload, location, regulatory issues, we're seeing enterprises start to recognize and increase specialization of their data assets. And that's going to lead to a degree of specializations in the classes of data management and storage technologies that they utilize. Now, what is the challenge of choosing a specific solution versus looking at more of a portfolio of solutions, that perhaps provide a little bit more commonality? How are customers, how are the IMB customer base dealing with that question. >> Well, for us the good thing was to have a broad portfolio. When you look at the base storage Arrays we have file, block and object, they're all award winning. We can go big, we can go medium, and we can go small. And because of what we do with our Array family we have products that tend to be expensive because of what they do, products that mid-price and products that are perfect for Herzog's Bar and Grill. Or maybe for 5,000 different bank branches, 'cause that bank is not going to buy expensive storage for every branch. They have a small Array there in case core goes down, of course. When you or I go in to get a check or transact, if the core data center is down, that Wells Fargo, BofA, Bank of Tokyo. >> Still has to do business. >> They are all transacting. There's a small Array there. Well you don't want to spend a lot of money for that, you need a good, reliable all flash Array with the right RAS capability, right? The availability, capability, that's what you need, And we can do that. The other thing we do is, we have very much, cloud-ified everything we do. We can tier to the cloud, we can backup to the cloud. With object storage we can place it in the cloud. So we've made the cloud, if you will, a seamless tier to the storage infrastructure for our customers. Whether that be backup data, archive data, primary data, and made it so it's very easy to do. Remember, with that downturn in '08 and '09 a lot of storage people left their job. And while IT headcount is back up to where it used to be, in fact it's actually exceeded, if there was 50 storage guys at Company X, and they had to let go 25 of them, they didn't hire 25 storage guys now, but they got 10 times the data. So they probably have 2 more storage guys, they're from 25 to 27, except they're managing 10 times the data, so automation, seamless integration with clouds, and being multi-cloud, supporting hybrid clouds is a critical thing in today's storage world. >> So you've talked a little bit about format, data format issues still impact storage decisions. You've talked about how disasters or availability still impact storage decisions, certainly cost does. But you've also talked about some of the innovative things that are happening, security, encryption, evolved backup and and restore capabilities, AI and how that's going to play, what are some of the key thing that your customer base is asking for that's really driving some of your portfolio decisions? >> Sure, well when we look beyond making sure we integrate with every cloud and make it seamless, the other aspect is AI. AI has taken off, machine learning, big data, all those. And there it's all about having the right platform from an Array perspective, but then marrying it with the right software. So for example, our scale-out file system, Spectrum Scale can go to Exabyte Class, in fact the two fastest super computers on this planet have almost half an exabyte of IBM Spectrum Scale for big data, analytics, and machine learning workloads. At the same time you need to have Object Store. If you're generating that huge amount of data set in AI world, you want to be able to put it out. We also now have Spectrum discover, which allows you to use Metadata, which is the data about the data, and allow and AI app, a machine learning app, or an analytics app to actually access the metadata through an API. So that's one area, so cloud, then AI, is a very important aspect. And of course, cyber resiliency, and cyber security is critical. Everyone thinks, I got to call a security company, so the IBM Security Division, RSA, Check Point, Symantec, McAfee, all of these things. But the reality is, as you guys have noted, 98% of all enterprises are going to get broken into. So while they're in your house, they can steal you blind. Before the cops show up, like the old movie, what are they doing? They're loading up the truck before the cops show up. Well guess what, what if that happened, cops didn't show up for 20 minutes, but they couldn't steal anything, or the TV was tied to your fingerprint? So guess what, they couldn't use the TV, so they couldn't steal it, that's what we've done. So, whether it be encryption everywhere, we can encrypt backup sets, we can encrypt data at rest, we can even encrypt Arrays that aren't ours with our Spectrum Virtualize family. Air gapping, so that if you have ransomware or malware you can air-gap to tape. We've actually created air gapping out with a cloud snapshot. We have a product called Safeguard Copy which creates what I'll call a faux air gap in the mainframe space, but allows that protection so it's almost as if it was air gapped even though it's on an Array. So that's a ransomware and malware, being able to detect that, our backup products when they see an unusual activity will flag the backup restore jam and say there is unusual activity. Why, because ransomware and malware generate unusual activity on back up data sets in particular, so it's flaky. Now we don't go out and say, "By the way, that's Herzog ransomware, or "Peter Burris ransomware." But we do say "something is wrong, you need to take a look." So, integrating that sort of cyber resiliency and cyber security into the entire storage portfolio doesn't mean we solve everything. Which is why when you get an overall security strategy, you've got that Great Wall of China to keep the enemy out, you've got the what I call, chase software to get the bad guy once he's in the house, the cops that are coming to get the bad guy. But you've got to be able to lock everything down, you'll do it. So a comprehensive security strategy, and resiliency strategy involves not only your security vendor, but actually your storage vendor. And IBM's got the right cyber resiliency and security technology on the storage side to marry up, regardless of which security vendor they choose. >> Now you mention a number of things that are associated with how an enterprise is going to generate greater leverage, greater value out of data that you already know. So, you mentioned, you know, encryption end to end, you mention being able to look at metadata for AI applications. As we move to a software driven world of storage where physical volumes can still be made more virtual so you can move them around to different workloads. >> Right. >> And associate the data more easily, tell us a little bit about how data movement becomes an issue in the storage world, because the storage has already been associated with it's here. But increasingly, because of automation, because of AI, because of what businesses are trying to do, it's becoming more associated with intelligent, smart, secure, optimized movement of data. How is that starting to impact the portfolio? >> So we look at that really as data mobility. And data mobility can be another number of different things, for example, we already mentioned, we treat clouds as transparent tiers. We can backup to cloud, that's data mobility. We also tier data, we can tier data within an Array, or the Spectrum Virtualize product. We can tier data, block data cross 450 Arrays, most of which aren't IBM logo'd. We can tier from IBM to EMC, EMC can then tier to HDS, HDS can tier to Hitachi, and we do that on Arrays that aren't ours. So in that case what you're doing is looking for the optimal price point, whether it be- >> And feature set. >> And feature sets, and you move things, data around all transparently, so it's all got to be automated, that's another thing, in the old days we thought we had Nirvana when the tiering was automatically moved the data when it's 30 days old. What if we automatically move data with our Easy Tier technology through AI, when the data is hot moves it to the hottest tier, when the data is cold it puts it out to the lowest cost tier. That's real automation leveraging AI technology. Same thing, something simple, migration. How much money have all the storage companies made on migration services? What if you could do transparent block migration in the background on the fly, without ever taking your servers down, we can do that. And what we do is, it's so intelligent we always favor the data set, so when the data is being worked on, migration slows down. When the data set slows down, guess what? Migration picks up. But the point is, data mobility, in this case from an old Array to an new Array. So whether it be migrating data, whether it be tiering data, whether you're moving data out to the cloud, whether it be primary data or backup data, or object data for archive, the bottom line is we've infused not only the cloudification of our storage portfolio, but the mobility aspects of the portfolio. Which does of course include cloud. But all tiering more likely is on premise. You could tier to the cloud, but all flash Array to a cheap 7200 RPM Array, you save a lot of money and we can do that using AI technology with Easy Tier. All examples of moving data around transparently, quickly, efficiently, to save cost both in CapEx, using 7200 RPM Arrays of course to cut costs, but actually OpEx the storage admin, there aren't a hundred storage admins at Burris Incorporated. You had to let them go, you've hired 100 of the people back, but you hired them all for DevOps so you have 50 guys in storage >> Actually there are, but I'm a lousy businessman so I'm not going to be in business long. (laughing) One more question, Eric. I mean look you're an old style road warrior, you're out with customers a lot. Increasingly, and I know this because we've talked about it, you're finding yourself trying to explain to business people, not just IT people how digital business, data and storage come together. When you're having these conversations with executives on the business side, how does this notion of data services get discussed? What are some of the conversations like? >> Well I think the key thing you got to point out is storage guys love to talk speeds and feeds. I'm so old I can still talk TPI and BPI on hard drives and no one does that anymore, right? But, when you're talking to the CEO or the CFO or the business owner, it's all about delivering data at the right performance level you need for your applications, workloads and use cases, your right resiliency for applications, workloads and use cases, your right availability, so it's all about application, workloads, and use cases. So you don't talk about storage speeds and feeds that you would with Storage Admin, or maybe in the VP of infrastructure in the Fortune 500, you'd talk about it's all about the data, keeping the data secure, keeping the data reliable, keeping it at right performance. So if it's on the type of workload that needs performance, for example, let's take the easy one, Flash. Why do I need Flash? Well, Mr. CEO, do you use logistics? Of course we do! Who do you use, SAP. Oh, how long does that logistics workload take? Oh, it takes like 24 hours to run. What if I told you you could run that every night, in an hour? That's the power of Flash. So you translate what you and I are used to, storage nerdiness, we translate it into businessfied, in this case, running that SAP workload in an hour vs. 24 has a real business impact. And that's the way you got to talk about storage these days. When you're out talking to a storage admin, with the admin, yes, you want to talk latency and IOPS and bandwidth. But the CEO is just going to turn his nose up. But when you say I can run the MongoDB workload, or I can do this or do that, and I can do it. What was 24 hours in an hour, or half an hour. That translates to real data, and real value out of that data. And that's what they're looking for, is how to extract value from the data. If the data isn't performant, you get less value. If the data isn't there, you clearly have no value. And if the data isn't available enough so that it's down part time, if you are doing truly digital business. So, if Herzog's Bar and Grill, actually everything is done digitally, so before you get that pizza, or before you get that cigar, you have to order it online. If my website, which has a database underneath, of course, so I can handle the transactions right, I got to take the credit card, I got to get the orders right. If that is down half the time, my business is down, and that's an example of taking IT and translating it to something as simple as a Bar and Grill. And everyone is doing it these days. So when you talk about, do you want that website up all the time? Do you need your order entry system up all the time? Do you need your this or that? Then they actually get it, and then obviously, making sure that the applications run quickly, swiftly, and smoothly. And storage is, if you will, that critical foundation underneath everything. It's not the fancy windows, it's not the fancy paint. But if that foundation isn't right, what happens? The whole building falls down. And that's exactly what storage delivers regardless of the application workload. That right critical foundation of performance, availability, reliability. That's what they need, when you have that all applications run better, and your business runs better. >> Yeah, and the one thing I'd add to that, Eric, is increasingly the conversations that we're having is options. And one of the advantages of a large portfolio or a platform approach is that the things you're doing today, you'll discover new things that you didn't anticipate, and you want the option to be able to do them quickly. >> Absolutely. >> Very, very important thing. So, applications, workload, use cases, multi-cloud storage portfolio. Eric, thanks again for coming on theCUBE, always love having you. >> Great, thank you. >> And once again, I'm Peter Burris, talking with Eric Herzog, CMO, VP of Worldwide Storage Channels at IBM Storage. Thanks again for watching this CUBE conversation, until next time. (upbeat music)

>> Welcome to the Special Cube conversation. We're here in Palo Alto, California Cube headquarters. I'm John for a host of the Cube were Mohit parents, founder and CEO of Cohesive Serial entrepreneur. Successful Distribute computing, phD, computer science. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for having me here. So thanks for coming. You guys been very successful. You found the couple in twenty thirteen. Great traction. Great success, Great technology. What's the vision of Cohee City? >> Let me first start by describing the problem. And then I'll go under describing the vision. The problem in a nutshell, is ah what we call mass data fragmentation. It refers to the fact that everything sets in silos, whether it's the sender or whether it's the cloud All our data sets in silos in appliances. Just expect all across the whole universe. And our vision is to basically consolidate that onto one platform I The easiest way to understand our vision is to look at it. What a smartphone that in the consumer space before the smartphone came the all used to carry multiple devices, right? Phone, music, player, camera, and so on. So forth. Uh, the smartphone came. It put all of those on one platform gave us a single U I to manage it all, um, gave us the notion ofthe marketplace from where we could download maps and run on this platform and gave us machine learning. Our vision is something very similar for the world of leader in the world. That data is the most valuable resource today in the world, much more so than oil. And he had the infrastructure. Where we put that data is very fragmented. Let's look at the ladies under backups is one silo probably bought from different renders test. And there was another side of analytics is another one five chairs and object storage is another one. Our vision is is to put all of that on one platform, make it very simple. Make that platform span the data center and the cloud manager using one us bring machine learning concepts to it and at a market place from where people >> could, you know, the smart phones. A good analogy. I like that because you had a market where they made devices to make phone calls and then text messaging. Beak was like killer half of the time. But having the computer enable the whole new class of services functionality, usability and capability and that that iPhone was a seminal moment There. You see, the same thing in Tech right now with Cloud Cloud has changed again. Seeing cloud be successful. Scale is a huge thing. So functionality, new kinds of functionality and large scales with cloud computing has proven. And APS have come around that. So I gotta ask you, you know, backup has been in category that has been dominated. Public offerings dated domain, but the list is endless of great companies built great backup solutions or a K phones. And I think that's what you're getting at the phones is the backup. You guys are building new functions. I want to explain the reels, um, capabilities that's going to come out of the data because if you have data being backed up, you're touching the data. So if you built a platform for scale, it seems that you guys have talked about that product. What is the unique thinking behind it? How did you come to it? And what are some of the examples? >> Yeah, so let's start one step at a time. So, uh, even though it's a platform that can do multiple things just like the smartphone had to be a great phone to begin with. This is a great backup product to begin with. And once we've solved the back a problem for the customer, then we encouraged them to do more on this may be to file shares, baby to object storage. Maybe start using the clouds and sunset. The next thing you'LL say that. Imagine you will work on that data. So you've ingested some data using backups and you want to get some insights from that data today? What you're forced to do is you probably have to copy that data out into another side of creating one more fragment. One more copy of the data. Why not move APS to the data? But other than dated adapts. So our whole concept is that take this platform and take whatever happened. You wanted to run outside off this just running on this platform and thereby you're moving APS to the data. Not the dinner, perhaps moving their eyes. Heart. It is. Ah, is big moving abscess. Easy. So and that's what the hell is this about On That's the platform. That's the capability of the platform. It's a distributed platform. Let's you're on APS close to where that it is. That's the underlying a lot of >> people say I remember we're going back a couple years now talking about Cloud or once I want to be like Google. I want to be like Amazon because they were offering at large scale using open source software. You can. You were lead engineer on Google file system, so you know a lot about scale. But a lot of people wanted the scale and functionality of Google, but they wanted the ease of use of Apple. And I've heard you mentioned that when were before we came on. So this is actually an interesting dynamic. But not everyone's like, Oh, but they have now data scaling similar challenges that Google has one song or another's large scale. Talk about that dynamic because you're changing the game on backup did since you touching the data, you're going to make that more valuable beyond just backing up. And this the concept of moving absolute data talkabout this dynamic of scale, functionality and ease of use because if you're doing all the work with the data, why not extend that out? This is essentially what you're doing. Can you explain that? >> Yeah. I think about the problems that Google would have if they were dealing with lots and lots of fragments of data. If everything was studying in a different appliance, Uh, with the volume of data that day deal that they'LL just be going knots pulling their hair all day long, right? So they built a web scale system that was sort of like a single platform. I was fortunate to be part ofthe some of those technologies, like the Google file system. So they built that Web scale file system to make it look like make all of that look like one platform. And now that it was one platform, they could move the APP store. And we're basically trying tow do something similar to the realm ofthe second reader naps. Because we have lots and lots of data here today. It sets and silos be the backups or passed on diver filers, Object storage. We're gonna build one big platform that scales out in a Google like fashion which can be managed very simply, using one you Iike an apple like manageability. And with this concept, we become very similar to those hyper skill er's, and we bring some of the same innovations to people out there. I >> want to share a common e we were talking about before we came on camera. You were just preferred something. You said I'd like to solve one problem at a time and then move on. But what's interesting here? Competitive strategy wise, you're solving the backup problem. But why you got your hands on the data? You're actually going to re imagine the usability of that data. So you're essentially adding value to a basic function back up, putting a platform around and extending that out, perhaps to come to it. And it's kind >> of a >> land grab that's working. This is a unique It's a different way to think about, Is that right? >> So I like to say that we like the master's off one trade at a time, nor Jack of all trades, uh, and that first trade for us that we would be masters off his backups once we're happy there. Then we can go on and focus on, you know, maybe filers or object storage. And this is how we build the platform right eye. I always say that when you architect a system, you have to think about all this from day one. You can't incrementally at patches and expect the system to grow right. I sometimes draw an analogy between why Google won the war against Yahoo. Google, Tara, Phil are all as a platform there. Thought about all the use cases they'd be, you know, putting on the platform. Yeah, who just build something that was good for search. Didn't think beyond that. That's why they you know about a bunch of naps. And >> that's where they saw it and thought of >> the Google file system and then YouTube on top and Gmail on top and blah, blah, blah. No. So I was the same approach. We've talked about the problem and the problem off. The problem We want to address mastered a recommendation up front, and our system has bean architected to solve that. Even if we start by being masters of backups first, the system has been architected tto do way more than that. >> So it be safe to say that cohesive from a software core competency standpoint is distributed computing core competence or disputed systems large scale from a computer science, you know standpoint and then data. So expertise are those two is intact. >> Yes. Oh, distributed computing and distributed file systems. Those would be there to core competencies. But then again, depending on like whether it's backups or its testing, that their competences of within those domains. >> So I want to get into the private tech. First of all, thanks for saying you have responded to that. The product text. Phenomenal. You have platform can do multiple things. I want to talk about span F S on Spann Os. You have some news. You've got something share on overview of what that is and what the new news is. >> So when you're trying to control on manage of lots and lots of data, you better have a distributed file system. So we built one, and we call it Spanish Fast. The name comes from the fact that it's supposed to span nodes in the very center that's supposed to span multiple kinds of storage in the data center. It's supposed to span the data center and your multi cloud environment, their hands the names pan a fast, But since we were building it like a platform, that's not just there for your data. It also runs apse on top off this platform. Uh, the span of fast is not enough. It becomes full scale us, if you may want to call it. What? So where's it has a file system and it has the ability to run laps on the file system, and the same ability was built here. And the name's patter well, so we can store data, but we can also naps close to that >> and with multi cloud on the horizon are actually president today. A lot of people use multiple clouds, and certainly Salesforce's considered cloud you got Amazon. So especially this moment clouds of existing today in the Enterprise, the coordinated all but hybrid and and these things they're going on. Premise. It's cloud operations. This becomes an important part of the distributed environments that need to be managed. Talk about the impact of multi cloud in today's world because it's a systems thinking. You gotta think about it from day one, which is kind of today. I got on premise. I got multiple clouds out there, and some clouds or great, depending on the workload, picked the cloud for the workload. I'm a big believer in that. Your thoughts, though, on as people tried to get their arms around this and make it, you know, one environment with a lot of decoupled elements that are highly cohesive. Talk about that dynamic. >> Yeah. So Cloud is a very, um, nice entrant into the infrastructure world. It provides a lot ofthe functionality, but it doesn't quite solve that problem off massive fragmentation. When you put your dinner in the cloud, it's still fragmented. And when you're dealing with, often our customers are big. Customers are dealing with multiple clouds and the data centers, and they have dedicated people trying to move data and applications between them. That's the problem that Cohee City can actually solve very well, because we're building a platform that spans all this. Um, all of that becomes underlying infrastructure that we use. And now through us, they can easily move APS. They could easily move data. They can access the data anywhere. That's the value we been to them. We have a customer here in California, and that was spending, uh, hundred twenty thousand dollars per month. It's a new company, uh, one hundred one hundred twenty thousand dollars per month on the eight of us both after they consolidated that stuff threw us in the cloud, their ability used to seventeen thousand dollars per month. That's the kind of value we can bring. The customers >> well, the Amazon Dana. It's interesting cause you got storage and you got E C two of the compute you need compute to manage towards so against. Not just storage. That's the cost. It's it's data is driving the economics. That's where you're getting it. >> Yeah, So I think data and storage and compute go together as I'm a big fan off hyper convergence, which me, along with the rest of my team Edna tonics. And Monday it's gonna doing multiple things on the side I'm back from. And you can't do that without storage and compute both working in tandem >> so consolidating with cohesive because I'll be using cohesive, he allows the better management lower costs on Amazon. >> That's right. That's right, because we store the data efficiently on Amazon, cutting the costs, and then you can run your raps on top. You don't have to copy out the data toe, run your wraps, you can actually land on the platform and all that saves costs. >> That's a great tidbit. Notes no to the audience out there. Great to tip their pro tip. Talk about the announcement you have now have APS coming out. You got three native cohesively absence. My word. I don't know. You guys call it Think Caps is going to the Alps and then for third party application developers. So again, this kind of teases out there beyond backup story, which is platform. What of the apse, Where this come from? What? Some of the reasons why they're being built. Can you share specifics on that news? >> This goes back to our analogy to a smartphone on one of the innovations the smartphone, brother. The world was the notion of a marketplace. You could go to the marketplace and down wrap. Some of the gaps are from the vendor who built the smartphone. Some of them are from third parties. So we are. And when the first iphone came out that I had basically five straight and then now there are millions of them. So what we have seeded the system with is we have, ah, a couple ofthe third party apse for in particular one a splunk that runs on the platform with in a container. One is from a company called Menace. One is actually two laps are anti virus absent. One vendor is scented. One when is clam? Maybe, um though that third party APS But then we've built some, um, APs from cohesively itself when his app called spotlight on the security app. One is an app called Insight searches through the data when his app called Easy Scripts allows our customers to upload scraps on drawing them from Go easy. So these are the apse that I'd be exceeded the system where were also announcing an SD came in just like your smartphone has a nasty cave. The world out there can go and use that and build ups on top if he would like people out there in the world. Third parties are partners to build ups and run on this bathroom >> so moment, what's their motivation behind the app system or functionality? As the demand grows, functionalities needed. So I'll see platforms should be enabling, so I get why APS could build on platforms. But what was the motivation that around the apse now just l of evolution capabilities? What's the thoughts >> It goes back to our philosophy that if you need to do something, you shouldn't buy one more silo to do it. You should be able to extend your existing platform and then do stuff. That's what your smartphone does. Uh, basically, even you, by your smartphone, it can be a phone, and I'm number for the things. But then you extended the functionality of that by downloading maps. It's the same motivation, you know, extend the abilities of this platform. Just download maps and then extended right. >> Give the value proposition pitch for the developers out there. Why would they want to develop on? Complicity is it is a certain kind of developer. What's the makeup of the target audience? Who would build on obesity? >> So all kinds of people we expect to build on this platform. So the value for our customers, for instance, now rather than, uh, copying the data out of this platform onto one more silo and that's very expensive, they can actually build a nap that runs on this platform so that they don't have to move the data around, and it's very, very simple. That's the value for our customers. For the developers out there. Uh, it's the same value that they get when they build an app on a smart phone. Uh, they building up some cash, but out there can download that app and the APP and then pay that developer some money so they don't have to build the whole company or the whole thing. Now they can build a nap that runs on cohesive. It's really simple for them. They get a cut of whatever the customer pays, so there's value all around. It's a ven ven for everyone >> it's not. And it's good business model, too good community going to get an ecosystem developing its a classic growth growth opportunity for you guys. Congratulate. So what a business you guys have talked about a couple quarters ago Publicly, about two million to million dollars run rate. Give us the update on the business in terms of growth. Employee headcount. Key milestones. Can you share? Seok was empty, >> so you know the momentum is phenomenal. We're very flattered by the fact that despite the fact that we're a young company we've been selling for more than three years, of seventy percent of our customers are enterprise customers. The big guys with lots and lots of data. Uh, some of the biggest banks in the world now use us. Some of the biggest credit card companies in the world use us. Uh, a lot of the secret of federal agencies. You, us? Um, uh, some of the public customers I convention Hyatt uses us. Ah, big financial. Northern Trust uses us the famous. Uh uh, you know, food chain. Wendy's uses us. So those are the names I can I can mention that are actually using and benefiting from cohesive. Um, so lots of lots of great stuff. Um, we had three hundred percent year over year growth in revenue. Our head count, actually, er this week crossed one thousand people. So we spoke to our chief people. Officer. We should mention our one thousand employees in a special way. So all that great stuff is happening. >> It's like walking through the door. All the bills go office because you guys were two hundred last year. About this time >> when you get back, we are about to enter. People's a factor of five growth and about one years phenomenal had come growth. >> Well, that's massive growth. How big is this guy's a real state growing and buy more office space. >> Yeah, well, uh, they're headquartered in a building and son who's a downtown. We start, but we got it. That building about when you're back, we only had two floors were really expanded toe like five floors now and looking toe, you know, rent more. We've also expanded to other locations. Geographically, we now have an office and rally. We have ah, uh in office and cork in Ireland. We already had an office in Bangalore. We setting one up in pony. We're setting one up in Toronto, So lots and lots of expansion worldwide. Not >> really looking good as well. I mean, let's think about the economics. >> So this is the time they're being in mustard and growth. That's looking phenomenal on DH. There's a path to profitability. Um uh, it all depends on you know, our economics and what the board decides on how and when we wanna charge towards profitability, we can get there. It's looks easy, but I think it's our productive ity off our sales reps looks phenomenal. On average, productively is very high, which basically means that you know, we can get to profitability fairly quickly. If you want. >> We're going to say, very impressed with the growth and impressed that you go out on the road, talk to customers closing business. That's sign of a great CEO. Always make sure the customers are happy. >> Um, eventually, that sort of companies about a happy employees and be happy customers. Uh, and my job is to see you is to make sure what happened >> before we get in Some of the questions I have from the community. I prepare because people want knew you were coming on. I want to ask you about entrepreneurship in your journey. You've had quite the career Google image in that nutanix. And now here, >> Look at look at >> today's environment. I mean, it was a lot of talk about how entrepreneurship changed and starting a company, you know, you got a rocket ship, so you had a lot people coming on Now from the your journey you're on now. But a lot of other offers out there right now, kind of like looking transition. People say tech is bad, not good for society. Seen bad, negative press in their entrepreneurship is a great opportunity right now in tech. What's your thoughts on the current landscape and opportunities for, you know, folks out there building new things and going in solving a problem from old market and reimagining it for the new. Because a lot of new going on seeing a new sea change with cloud. And on premise, >> I would say, Um, this is probably the best time to do a company then ever in the past because technology is there to help people. Young entrepreneurs. Uh, there's plenty of money to be raised from the sea. Species are very happy to be helping. End of news a couple of pieces of caution that I wantto give to would be entrepreneurs. Uh, number one. Don't be in a hurry. Learn their hopes of doing a company first. Ah, before jumping and doing it because often I find that they burn their fingers and then they don't want to do a company again. First, go to a good company, learn the ropes of playing a company, and then do a company. That's number one number two. Uh, I would like to incorrigible and avenues to think about their ideas in the context. Off the following two thoughts one is, uh, the company needs to have a great entry point. That's how the company takes off. But then it also needs to have a bigger vision to look up to. And I often find that company's lack one or the other of these, Uh, and that's why they eventually fail or they never take off the ground. In our case, the entry point was backups, and the big vision is the consolidation off seconded and haps that I spoke about, Ah, one or the other if they're missing, it's not >> an extensive abilities key there, too. You get the beachheads real specific seconds, and then you see you point >> out of a vision. That's >> what broader beachhead without trying to take it all too fast or not knowing where to lay. That's gonna much the analogy. >> That's what I say. I beat master of one traitor, go ahead in the beachhead and then expanded the bigger >> and by the way, that's a classic proven way to do it. So, you know, just stay with what works, All right, let's get to the questions from the community. A lot of people wanted to ask your first question moment. You've a great perspective on the difference between hyper scale on enterprise worlds Is the enterprise still ten plus years behind the Giants in Tech? And how have you helped bring hyper scale thinking to the enterprise architecture? >> Um, the enterprise is, actually, surprisingly is getting closer and closer. Uh, with all the great technologies available, hyper convergence has bean. One of those technologies that has made hyper convergence combined with upscale, uh, is one of those technologies that has brought the enterprise were very close to the hyper scholars. Now they can buy products that are hyper energy that scale out in a group like fashion, and they can get some of the same benefits that the hyper scholars have enjoyed over the years, eh? So I won't say they have that far behind anymore. They're catching up, and they're catching up. Eyes >> used to be a few years ago, you could look at saying old relic, you know, modern cloud >> the and and the companies that I have found it have. I'm very flattered to say that have gonna, uh, hasten that journey. Uh, happy convergence. And he's even solving this problem of massive fragmentation. The hyper skills have kind of, you know, already solved that problem. They have massive, upscale systems that don't deliver data fragmentation. It's one platform, and you're gonna bring that value to the world through cohesive, >> great, great success. Okay, second question. There's a ton of money pouring into the data protection space again, a category that's there's a card in magic water for that. But again, you start Cummings that don't have magic watches because it's new. Why is this money pouring into space? Why now? >> Number one dealer is exploding. There's lots of lots of data. Ah, bulk off the data sets in what we call second story. It comes to it through back up straight. Your your production stuff has some production data, but eventually that data. Nobody wants to believe that they would keep it in there for at least six seven years, maybe forever. All dated, it comes to backups. The opportunity that people have seen is that they can actually now doom or with that data. It's not just dumb waiter sitting there, so it's not just data protection. It becomes more of a data management and you do data management through APS. That's what cohesion is exploding. We get the data onto a platform through backups, but then we expand into arrest of the vision and Kendra naps to extract value from the dealer right? That's why the money is coming. >> Well, you just answer the next question, which is, you know, why cohesively wind now the space is crowded, a lot of competition, So I'll just move on Ransomware, what's going on there and what's unique about Kohi City and what do you bring to the table with respect to Ransomware. >> So Ransomware is, uh, uh, something that we now live in. Its every enterprise is at risk, uh, being affected by ransomware. So what we have announced recently eating a month back, we announced our ransomware support. Uh, we can offer not just the detection, but also a number for the things we can detect Ransom where we can allow our customers toe apply fixes. When When that happens, we really allow things to be recovered once ransomware happened. So it's built into our data protection environment, right? That's how customers like it. So it adds value to the data that they already have. It's not just a dumb backup. >> And with all the third party and S t k stuff happening potential extensive bility on that core, >> that's right. Now we can have apse that can detect more round somewhere by virtue of the fact that we can support running absolutes to data. Some of those APs could be Andy dancing, perhaps help protect the data, do some custom stuff. Once said handsome, it is detected. All that becomes possible >> last question from the crowd here, the community multi cloud. Everyone's going up to the space. What is multi cloud data protection really about? And why cohesive? Isn't this just really a multi cloud vendor? Khun, do it all mean a lot of people saying they're multi cloud vendors. Y you what is multi cloud data protection all about? >> So, you know, big enterprise customers probably have a foot in every cloud, and they call it a multi cloud infrastructure. And if they want to protect the data and forced me, the data is very fragmented. So they need a backup solution for one for every cloud that's roughly multi cloudy. The production. Uh, we're cool. Here's the adds value. It's building one platform that spans your multicolored environment. So one platform can now take care ofall that those backups eso it really simplifies the job off doing backups or data protection in a multicolored environment. And that's where the Queen's devalue comes in. >> Well, congratulations. Final question for this interview. How would you summarize the state of cohesive the right now? Thousand employees growth on the customer traction side and revenue business funding. Males look good economic with a platform, certainly software margins looking very good growth. What's it all about right now? Culture value, proposition don't. >> It's kind of like a rocket ship, and we're just hanging on. But it's Ah, I think that focus is, um, when you grow this fast, uh, the challenge becomes, uh, keeping your culture intact and we tryto put a lot of effort on our culture. Our core values are cultural guidelines were fanatics about that. So we want everyone to feel that they're coming in and this is home away from home, and they treat others to make them feel it's home away from home. We're trying to build a family here, so there's a lot of emphasis on that. But at the same time, you know, we all work hard and let the company >> and the new ecosystem opportunity for you is looking really good because if he zaps takeoff, certainly the cohesively APS. And now you got third party with an S t. K. This is potentially a game changer for you as a company to a CZ Wells, you have product company. Software company makes a lot of scared, but now you're gonna be bringing developers and impact there. >> The impact, the talk, leadership impact. Uh, you know, I'm personally very fun off er you know I do these companies because I want to change the world. I won't change the way the world thinks this is the way I think. And if I can help the world think in this fashion contributed something to the world. And so that's the excitement that sort of mission is. Team is excited about that. It's just >> we got a great mind phD in computer science and two ships systems entrepreneur that thinks up new things that disrupt the status quo. And the old guard certainly track record their congratulations. Know what? Thanks for coming on The Cube. This's the Cube conversation here. Palo Alto. I'm John every year. Thanks for watching. What?

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hi, everybody, welcome to this CUBE conversation. My name is Dave Vellante. You know the software industry is going through dramatic change. Obviously cloud is a piece of that. The drive towards simplification. Gone are the days of multi tens of millions of dollar implementations that take years and years with highly-customized software modifications. Those days are gone. People wanna simplify. They wanna be agile. Carter Lloyds is here. He's with QAD, an ERP manufacturing software specialist. Carter, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me here. I'm excited to talk to ya. >> Yeah, so I'm learning more about your company. Love the story and I'd like you to share it with our audience. Give us the brief overview of who QAD is. >> Absolutely, so maybe we should start with where we came from. So, it was about 40 years ago in 1979. Karl Lopker, our founder, and Pam Lopker, our co-founder, were in Santa Barbara, California. Karl had a company that was making sandals and he was running into some manufacturing problems and he needed some help and he needed some software to make it easier for him to manufacture. Pam came along, she wrote some software for him. He was very successful. That company turned into Deckers which now owns Uggs and is doing some great things and they decided along the way that although sandals are interesting, they thought software was more interesting. So they founded QAD and for 40 years we've been very focused on helping to make manufacturing easier through cloud ERP software now. >> That's a great story, so Pam is the coder. She's the alpha geek. >> Exactly. >> And they solved their own problem and then said, okay, let's take this to market. >> Exactly and that's why manufacturing, it's in our DNA. It's in our roots and it's what we're passionate about. >> Well so the obvious question that people are gonna have is how do you compete with the big whales in the market, particularly SAP? >> Okay, fantastic. I heard a quote recently that I've really locked onto and it's from the founder of the World Economic Forum and the quote is that in the old days, it used to be the big fish that would eat the small fish but in today's world, it's the fast fish that eats the slow fish and we see that not only as a metaphor for our position within the ERP industry, but what our customers are going through right now. That with all the rapid change that's going on, it's not about how big you are in economies of scale. It's about how resilient you are and how fast you can adapt. >> Well, that's interesting. So you're a smaller company, obviously, than the multi tens of billions of dollars that SAP and Oracle and others, but you're talking like a startup. >> Yep. >> Agile, speed. Is that how you think about yourselves? >> Absolutely, I think a startup mentality is always great to have, but rapid, agile, and effective. We believe that those are the requirements of our customers within the manufacturing business and that's what we need to be able to provide. >> So let's talk more about the differentiation. I mean you can't be all things to all people as a smaller company and a company that wants to be agile so what are some of the areas that you're focused on where you're having successes. >> Okay, absolutely, so historically, we focused on manufacturing, but that's too broad so we're focused on six verticals within manufacturing. So it's automotive, life sciences, food and beverage, consumer-packaged goods, electronics, and high tech. I'm sorry, industrial. So those are the main areas that we're focused on right now but within that, we're seeing a lot of challenges for manufacturers within that area. Again, it's this concept of change. We believe that the only constant is change and legacy ERP systems simply weren't designed for change. If there was no change, the system that you installed eight years ago would work just as well today as it did eight years ago, but that's not what's happening. We're seeing a disconnect between the business requirements and what the systems are able to provide. >> Now is your strategy to sort of build greater functionality into the software that sort of maps to companies' business processes or is it that the software is super flexible and can be adapted? Maybe you could describe that a little bit. >> It's both. So to start with, we want to not deliver to our customers a framework on which they need to build out their processes but realize that there are best practices and there are common processes within, amongst companies within a particular niche and so we want to come to the table with the very best industry best practices that we can and we do that. We also recognize, though, that each company is slightly different and to simply say adopt best practices and you must do that is not the right way to go. So we believe that our software can get our customers to 90% of their requirements and that's world-class but for that last 10%, don't ignore them. If that's where your competitive advantage is, where your differentiation is, then we need to give you a way to be able to meet those requirements and a way that is simple and does not lock you in to the software that you currently have. >> Mh-m, okay so Carter you're a global company. Maybe you could give us a sense of the sort of scope of your operations. >> Absolutely, so our customers are global and they've taken us global. We support over 65 countries in terms of the regulatory requirements so that out of the box, our software is able to do that. We believe that's industry-leading. We have operations all around the world, direct and through partners. >> So you guys have been around for a while. When you step back and think about some of the big trends, obviously cloud, everything is becoming, you know, about server size, what are the factors that you look at that are, you're trying to make tail winds for your company? >> Absolutely, so we've spent a lot of time over the last couple of years thinking about disruptors. So what are the common themes in these changes that our customers are facing and we've narrowed that down to three top disruptors. So the first one is anything is a service. So end users now are demanding not just products but what that product can do and the classic example is people don't want drills. They want holes. Why are we selling them drills? And we're seeing that sweep across manufacturing. We've got a customer that delivers industrial equipment to fast food chains and they don't wanna simply buy fryers. They want to be able to fry things so they're asking that vendor to be able to provide it as a service to be able to monitor and intervene so that they have more fryer up time which makes sense. That's the first one. The second one that we see is make to scale it order or mass customization. People want things the way that they want them and that's getting more pervasive throughout the supply chain. And then the third one is the digital transformation of manufacturing which many people call Industry 4.0. >> So on that last piece, very data-oriented >> Yes. >> And so maybe talk a little bit about how your customers are using data to transform their business and what role you guys play. >> Sure. It's absolutely critical when we think about how data has transformed the world of the consumer, it's incredible. What you are now able to do on the internet, even tied to anything as a service. The concept that we don't own movies anymore. We don't own music. We get it delivered as a service to us but the first step in doing that is to really digitize manufacturing. So it starts with the acquisition of company data and value chain data and then using that to be able to measure and optimize process to improve performance. >> So cloud is obviously another big trend in your business. You guys have moved to a cloud operating model whether it's on-prem or in your cloud but talk about your cloud strategy and what you guys are doing there, maybe some of your product portfolio. >> Absolutely, so we were very early to the cloud. Our first product went to the cloud in 2003 before it was even called the cloud. I think we called it on demand then and that was a supplier collaboration tool. We moved our flagship ERP system to the cloud in 2007 and since then, we've been building it for the cloud, optimizing, designing and it was an incredible experience for us that really had customer benefits because once you start to become a service-provider rather than a product-provider, you see it through your customers' eyes. So, depending on your viewpoint, you're either eating your own dog food or drinking your own champagne and it led us to understand some of the pains that people have in implementing ERP systems and upgrading them and then to design fixes so the software goes in faster, easier, and can be upgraded to a much greater extent. >> And so if you're gonna be in the cloud, your customers obviously wanna avoid a lot of custom modifications. We heard earlier that's sort of one of your differentiations and am I getting that right? As your customers move to the cloud, they're minimizing the need to do custom mods? >> So I would caveat that a little bit. I think the need still exists for that last-mile functionality to meet the individual requirements of the company but we think that customizations are evil. We want to eliminate customizations but still give them the ability to deliver on that need through extensions and new applications that are written in a non-intrusive way and can float above the system and therefore the system can be upgraded without breaking those connections. >> We're having to go back inside to the guts of those what you just called the last mile, right? >> Absolutely, so our customers are in the manufacturing business. They're not in the software business and part of the cloud-value proposition is allowing our customers to do what they do best which is to make great products and serve their customers and let us do what we do best which is delivering software through the cloud to them. >> And so your cloud products and your on-prem products are sort of identical from a code-based standpoint. Is that correct? >> They are, exactly. We do not believe that cloud should be a compromise. Our customers demand full-functionality ERP. That's what we had delivered previously on-premise and that's what we deliver on the cloud so it is identical software. >> So go back to this digital transformation for a minute 'cause you do a lot of conferences with theCUBE. You hear that. What does that mean to your customers? It's not just a buzz word. Every customer you talk to saying, digital, digital, digital. It's the number one driver of our business. What does that mean to your customer base? >> Absolutely, so for us it's not about the technology itself. It's about the use case and how it can make them better manufacturers and make manufacturing easier. So there are a couple of different areas that we've been exploring and we do that through a very pragmatic approach and we call that QAD Labs where we work with our customers around their use cases and how we can apply technology to it. So one of the areas that we're working on right now is around machine learning and it's to help automotive suppliers to take some of the signals that they're receiving from the OEMs in terms of what the requirements are and make sense of it so that what they are planning on delivering closely matches what the ultimate requirement will be from the OEMs. The OEM signals often jump around quite a bit and through machine learning, we can make better sense and not necessarily replace the planner, but provide additional information suggestions to the planner to make them more efficient. >> So the outcome is better predictability, sort of less heavy-lifting? >> Absolutely, so, much better customer service, less expediting of materials, and then also lower inventory. >> Talk about QAD Explore. It's coming up in May. When is it? What can people expect? What's it look like? >> Absolutely, so we have our user conference. Our global user conference in New Orleans, Louisiana, May sixth through ninth. It's a fantastic event. We get very excited about it. I guess we could say we get jazzed about it since it's in New Orleans. It allows us to really think about our customers, to meet with our customers, to have our customers network with each other, learn best practices, and see what we're doing and how we're trying to help them. >> What's the format of Explore? Like you've got obviously keynotes. Is it one-day, two-day? Maybe describe that a little bit. >> Absolutely, so it's a three-day event. The keynotes are fantastic. We try to do short, TED talk-type events with some of our executives so you can hear about our strategy and what we're releasing. We bring in industry experts and experts around the future of manufacturing and the future of business so that our customers can start to see where their area might be headed so that they can start to make decisions about where we're going and then in the afternoons we tend to go into breakouts where we can do deep dives into our solutions and businesses so that they can really understand the benefits that are available to them. >> So customers obviously attending. Will they present as well? >> We do have customers presenting. That's one of the main reasons our customers come actually is to hear from their peers and how they're solving problems. It's really a fantastic event. >> Well the Big Easy in May is a good place to be. It's a fun town. >> It's not a bad place to be and it actually starts the day after Jazz Fest so we can't complain about that either. >> Alright Carter Lloyds thanks so much for coming to theCUBE. >> Thank you very much for your time. >> And giving us the overview of QAD. Alright and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante. We'll see ya next time. You're watching theCUBE. (light techno music)

[Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to the special cube conversations here in Palo Alto cube studios I'm John Ferrier the founder of Silicon angle in the cube we're here with divest cargoes the founder and CEO of arcus Inc our curse com ar-are see us calm and Steve Herod General Partner at at General Catalyst VCU's funded him congratulations on your launch these guys launched on Monday a hot new product software OS for networking powering white boxes in a whole new generation of potentially cloud computing welcome to this cube conversation congratulations on your >> launch thank you John >> so today I should talk about this this >> startup when do you guys were founded let's get to the specifics date you were founded some of the people on the team and the funding and we were formally incorporated in February of 2016 we really got going in earnest in August of 2016 and have you know chosen to stay in stealth the the founding team consists of myself a gentleman by the name of Kop tell he's our CTO we also have a gentleman by the name of Derek Young he's our chief architect and our backgrounds are a combination of the semiconductor industry I spent a lot of time in the semiconductor industry most recently I was president of easy chip and we sold that company to Mellanox and Kher and Derek our networking protocol experts spent 20 plus years at places like Cisco and arguably some of the best protocol guys in the world so the three of us got together and basically saw an opportunity to to bring some of the insights and and architectural innovation you know we had in mind to the Mobius a pedigree in there some some top talent absolutely some of the things that they've done in the past from some notable yeah I mean you know some if you if you'd like some just high-level numbers we have 600 plus years of experience of deep networking expertise within the company our collective team has shipped over 400 products to production we have over 200 IETF RFC papers that have been filed by the team as well as 150 plus patents so we really can do something on the pedigree for sure yeah we absolutely focused on getting the best talent in the world because we felt that it would be a significant differentiation to be able to start from a clean sheet of paper and so really having people who have that expertise allowed us to kind of take a step back and you know reimagine what could be possible with an operating system and gave us the benefit of being able to you know choose >> best-in-class approaches so what's the >> cap the point that this all came >> together what was the guiding vision was it network os's are going to be cloud-based was it going to be more I owe t what was the some of the founding principles that really got this going because clearly we see a trend where you know Intel's been dominating we see what NVIDIA is doing competitively certainly on the GPU side you're seeing the white box has become a trend Google makes their own stuff apples big making their own silicon seeking the that's kind of a whole big scale world out there that has got a lot of hardware experience what was the catalyst for you guys when you found this kinda was the guiding principle yeah I would say there were three John and you hit you hit on a couple of them in your reference to Intel and NVIDIA with some of the innovation but if I start at the top level the market the networking market is a large market and it's also very strategic and foundational in a hyper-connected world that market is also dominated by a few people and there's essentially three vertically integrated OEM so that dominate that market and when you have that type of dominance it leads to ultimately high prices and muted innovations so we felt number one the market was going through tremendous change but at the same time it had been tightly controlled by a few people the other part of it was that there was a tremendous amount of innovation that was happening at the silicon component level coming from the semiconductor industry I was early at Broadcom very you know involved in some of the networking things that happened in the early stages of the company we saw tremendous amounts of innovation feature velocity that was happening at the silicon component level that in turn led to a lot of system hardware people coming into the market and producing systems based on this wide variety of choices for you know for the silicon but the missing link was really an operating system that would unleash all that innovation so Silicon Valley is back Steve you you know you're a VC now but you were the CTO at VMware one of the companies that actually changed how data centers operate certainly as it certainly as a pretext and cloud computing was seeing with micro services and the growth of cloud silicon's hot IT operations is certainly being decimated as we old knew it in the past everything's being automated away you need more function now there's a demand this is this penny how you see I mean you always see things are a little early as of technologist now VC what got you excited about these guys what's the what's the bottom line yeah maybe two points on that which so one silicon is is definitely become interesting again if you will in the in the Silicon Valley area and I think that's partly because cloud scale and web scale allows these environments where you can afford to put in new hardware and really take advantage of it I was a semiconductor I first austerity too so it's exciting for me to see that but um you know is the fish that it's kind of a straightforward story you know especially in a world of whether it's cloud or IOT or everything networking is you know like literally the core to all of us working going forward and the opportunity to rethink it in a new design and in software first mentality felt kind of perfect right now I think I I think device even sell the team a little short even is with all the numbers that are there kr for instance this co-founder was sort of everyone you talk to will call him mister BGP which is one of the main routing protocols in the internet so just a ridiculously deep team trying to take this on and there been a few companies trying to do something kind of like this and I think what do they say that the second Mouse gets the cheese and I think I think we've seen some things that didn't work the first time around and we can really I think improve on them and have a >> chance to make a major impact on the networking market you know just to kind of go on a tangent here for a second >> because you know as you're talking kind of my brain is kind of firing away because you know one of things I've been talking about on the cube a lot is ageism and if you look at the movement of the cloud that's brought us systems mindset back you look at all the best successes out there right now it's almost a old guys and gals but it's really systems people people who understand networking and systems because the cloud is an operating system you have an operating system for networking so you're seeing that trend certainly happened that's awesome the question I have for you device is what is the difference what's the impact of this new network OS because I'm almost envisioning if I think through my mind's eye you got servers and server list certainly big train seeing and cloud it's one resource pools one operating system and that needs to have cohesiveness and connectedness through services so is this how you guys are thinking about how are you guys think about the network os what's different about what you guys are doing with ARC OS versus what's out there today now that's a great question John so in terms of in terms of what we've done the the third piece you know of the puzzle so to speak when we were talking about our team I talked a little bit about the market opportunity I talked a little bit about the innovation that was happening at the semiconductor and systems level and said the missing link was on the OS and so as I said at the onset we had the benefit of hiring some of the best people in the world and what that gave us the opportunity was to look at the twenty plus years of development that had happened on the operating system side for networking and basically identify those things that really made sense so we had the benefit of being able to adopt what worked and then augment that with those things that were needed for a modern day networking infrastructure environment and so we set about producing a product we call it our Co s and the the characteristics of it that are unique are that its first of all its best-in-class protocols we have minimal dependency on open source protocols and the reason for that is that no serious network operator is going to put an open source networking protocol in the core of their network they're just not going to risk their business and the efficacy and performance of their network for something like that so we start with best-in-class protocols and then we captured them in a very open modular Services microservices based architecture and that allows us the flexibility and the extensibility to be able to compose it in a manner that's consistent with what the end-use case is going to be so it's designed from the onset to be very scalable and very versatile in terms of where it can be deployed we can deploy it you know in a physical environment we can deploy it visa via a container or we could deploy it in the cloud so we're agnostic to all of those use case scenarios and then in addition to that we knew that we had to make it usable it makes no sense to have the best-in-class protocols if our end customers can't use them so what we've done is we've adopted open config yang based models and we have programmable api's so in any environment people can leverage their existing tools their existing applications and they can relatively easily and efficiently integrate our Co s into their networking environment and then similarly we did the same thing on the hardware side we have something that we call D pal it's a data plane adaptation layer it's an intelligent how and what that allows us to do is be Hardware agnostic so we're indifferent to what the underlying hardware is and what we want to do is be able to take advantage of the advancements in the silicon component level as well as at the system level and be able to deploy our go S anywhere it's let's take a step back so you guys so the protocols that's awesome what's the value proposition for our Co S and who's the target audience you mentioned data centers in the past is a data center operators is it developers is it service providers who was your target customer yeah so so the the piece of the puzzle that wraps everything together is we wanted to do it at massive scale and so we have the ability to support internet scale with deep routing capabilities within our Co s and as a byproduct of that and all the other things that we've done architectural II were the world's first operating system that's been ported to the high-end Broadcom strata DNX family that product is called jericho plus in the marketplace and as a byproduct of that we can ingest a full internet routing table and as a byproduct of that we can be used in the highest end applications for network operators so performance is a key value public performance as measured by internet scale as measured by convergence times as measured by the amount of control visibility and access that we provide and by virtue of being able to solve that high-end problem it's very easy for us to come down so in terms of your specific question about what are the use cases we have active discussions in data center centric applications for the leaf and spine we have active discussions for edge applications we have active discussions going on for cloud centric applications arcus can be used anywhere who's the buyer those network operator so since we can go look a variety of personas network operator large telco that's right inner person running a killer app that's you know high mission-critical high scale is that Mike right yeah you're getting you're absolutely getting it right basically anybody that has a network and has a networking infrastructure that is consuming networking equipment is a potential customer for ours now the product has the extensibility to be used anywhere in the data center at the edge or in the cloud we're very focused on some of the use cases that are in the CDN peering and IP you know route reflector IP peering use cases great Steve I want to get your thoughts because I say I know how you invest you guys a great great firm over there you're pretty finicky on investments certainly team check pedigrees they're on the team so that's a good inside market tamp big markets what's the market here for you but how do you see this market what's the bet for you guys on the market side yeah it's pretty pretty straightforward as you look at the size of the networking market with you know three major players around here and you know a longer tail owning a small piece of Haitian giant market is a great way to get started and if you believe in the and the secular trends that are going on with innovation and hardware and the ability to take advantage of them I think we have identified a few really interesting starting use cases and web-scale companies that have a lot of cost and needs in the networking side but what I would love about the software architecture it reminds me a lot of things do have kind of just even the early virtualization pieces if you if you can take advantage of movement in advantages and hardware as they improve and really bring them into a company more quickly than before then those companies are gonna be able to have you know better economics on their networking early on so get a great layer in solve a particular use case but then the trends of being able to take advantage of new hardware and to be able to provide the data and the API is to programmatic and to manage it who one would that it's creative limp limitless opportunity because with custom silicon that has you know purpose-built protocols it's easy to put a box together and in a large data center or even boxes yeah you can imagine the vendors of the advances and the chips really love that there's a good company that can take advantage of them more quickly than others can so cloud cloud service refined certainly as a target audience here large the large clouds would love it there's an app coming in Broadcom as a customer they a partner of you guys in two parts first comes a partner so we we've ported arc OS onto multiple members of the Broadcom switching family so we have five or six of their components their networking system on chip components that we've ported to including the two highest end which is the jericho plus and you got a letter in the Broadcom buying CA and that's gonna open up IT operations to you guys and volge instead of applications and me to talk about what you just said extensibility of taking what you just said about boxes and tying applique and application performance you know what's going to see that vertically integrated and i think i think eloping yeah from from a semiconductor perspective since i spent a lot of time in the industry you know one of the challenges i had founded a high court count multi processor company and one of the challenges we always had was the software and at easy chip we had the world's highest and network processor challenge with software and i think if you take all the innovation in the silicon industry and couple it with the right software the combination of those two things opens up a vast number of opportunities and we feel that with our Co s we provide you know that software piece that's going to help people take advantage of all the great innovation that's happening you mentioned earlier open source people don't want to bring open source at the core the network yet the open source communities are growing really at an exponential rate you starting to see open source be the lingua franca for all developers especially the modern software developers wine not open sourcing the core the amino acids gotta be bulletproof you need security obviously answers there but that seems difficult to the trend on open source what's the what's the answer there on why not open source in the core yeah so we we take advantage of open source where it makes sense so we take advantage of open and onl open network Linux and we have developed our protocols that run on that environment the reason we feel that the protocols being developed in-house as opposed to leveraging things from the open source community are the internet scale multi-threading of bgp integrating things like open config yang based models into that environment right well it's not only proven but our the the the capabilities that we're able to innovate on and bring unique differentiation weren't really going back to a clean sheet of paper and so we designed it ground-up to really be optimized for the needs of today Steve your old boss Palmer rich used to talk about the harden top mmm-hmm similar here right you know one really no one's really gonna care if it works great it's under the under the harden top where you use open source as a connection point for services and opportunities to grow that similar concept yes I mean at the end of the day open source is great for certain things and for community and extensibility and for visibility and then on the flip side they look to a company that's accountable and for making sure it performs and as high quality and so I think I think that modern way for especially for the mission critical infrastructure is to have a mix of both and to give back to community where it makes sense to be responsible for hardening things are building them when they don't expense so how'd you how'd you how'd you land these guys you get him early and don't sit don't talk to any other VCS how did it all come together between you guys we've actually been friends for a while which has been great in it at one point we actually decided to ask hey what do you actually do I found that I was a venture investor and he is a network engineer but now I actually have actually really liked the networking space as a whole as much as people talk about the cloud or open source or storage being tough networking is literally everywhere and will be everywhere and whatever our world looks like so I always been looking for the most interesting companies in that space and we always joke like the investment world kind of San Francisco's applications mid here's sort of operating systems and the lower you get the more technical it gets and so well there's a vaccine I mean we're a media company I think we're doing things different we're team before we came on camera but I think media is undervalued I wrote just wrote a tweet on that got some traction on that but it's shifting back to silicon you're seeing systems if you look at some of the hottest areas IT operations is being automated away AI ops you know Auto machine learning starting to see some of these high-end like home systems like that's exactly where I was gonna go it's like the vid I I especially just love very deep intellectual property that is hard to replicate and that you can you know ultimately you can charge a premium for something that is that hard to do and so that's that's really something I get drugs in the deal with in you guys you have any other syndicates in the video about soda sure you know so our initial seed investor was clear ventures gentleman by the name of Chris rust is on our board and then Steve came in and led our most recent round of funding and he also was on the board what we've done beyond that institutional money is we have a group of very strategic individual investors two people I would maybe highlight amongst the vast number of advisers we have our gentleman by the name of Pankaj Patel punka JH was the chief development officer at Cisco he was basically number two at Cisco for a number of years deep operating experience across all facets of what we would need and then there's another gentleman by the name of Amarjeet Gill I've been friends with armored teeth for 30 years he's probably one of the single most successful entrepreneurs in the he's incubated companies that have been purchased by Broadcom by Apple by Google by Facebook by Intel by EMC so we were fortunate enough to get him involved and keep him busy great pedigree great investors with that kind of electoral property and those smart mines they're a lot of pressure on you as the CEO not to screw it up right I mean come on now get all those smart man come on okay you got it look at really good you know I I welcome it actually I enjoy it you know we look when you have a great team and you have as many capable people surrounding you it really comes together and so I don't think it's about me I actually think number one it's about I was just kidding by the way I think it's about the team and I'm merely a spokesperson to represent all the great work that our team has done so I'm really proud of the guys we have and frankly it makes my job easier you've got a lot of people to tap for for advice certainly the shared experiences electively in the different areas make a lot of sense in the investors certainly yeah up to you absolutely absolutely and it's not it's not just at the at the board it's just not at the investor level it's at the adviser level and also at you know at our individual team members when we have a team that executes as well as we have you know everything falls into place well we think the software worlds change we think the economics are changing certainly when you look at cloud whether it's cloud computing or token economics with blockchain and new emerging tech around AI we think the world is certainly going to change so you guys got a great team to kind of figure it out I mean you got a-you know execute in real time you got a real technology play with IP question is what's the next step what is your priorities now that you're out there congratulations on your launch thank you in stealth mode you got some customers you've got Broadcom relationships and looking out in the landscape what's your what's your plan for the next year what's your goals really to take every facet of what you said and just scale the business you know we're actively hiring we have a lot of customer activity this week happens to be the most recent IETF conference that happened in Montreal given our company launch on Monday there's been a tremendous amount of interest in everything that we're doing so that coupled with the existing customer discussions we have is only going to expand and then we have a very robust roadmap to continue to augment and add capabilities to the baseline capabilities that we brought to the market so I I really view the next year as scaling the business in all aspects and increasingly my time is going to be focused on commercially centric activities right well congratulations got a great team we receive great investment cube conversation here I'm John furry here the hot startup here launching this week here in California in Silicon Valley where silicon is back and software is back it's the cube bringing you all the action I'm John Fourier thanks for watching [Music]

(dramatic music) >> Narrator: Live from Washington D.C., it's cube conversations with John Furrier. >> Hello everyone, welcome to this special cube conversation, I'm John Furrier, the host of The Cube, co-founder of SiliconANGLE media Inc. We are here in the Washington D.C. Beltway area. We're actually at Amazon web services' public sector headquarters in Arlington, Virginia. My next guest is John Wood, he's the CEO and chairman of the board at Telos, a big provider of some of the big contracts, certainly with Amazon CIA, among others, welcome. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks for joining me. >> I'm glad to be here. >> So, you guys have been pretty instrumental and we were talking to Teresa Carlson earlier, with an exclusive interview with her, and we talked about the shot heard around the Cloud. That was the CIA, Amazon win, four years ago. >> Yes. >> Kind of infiltrated the government area. It's almost a gestation period and now you got DOD action, a ton of other opportunities, but it really is an architectural mindset changeover from the old way. >> Yes You're involved in this, with Telos. What's your take, how are you guys involved, what's going on? >> Yeah, so it was groundbreaking, when the CIA made the determination that they were going to move to the Cloud, for sure. It kind of made everybody stand up and take notice, if the most security conscience organization in the world was considering it, why aren't I? And here we are, four years later, so where is the CIA now? Well now, the CIA is able to provision a server in a couple minutes, whereas the past, it used to take them almost a year. Now, with the use of automation tools like we have with Telos and the Xacta suite, the CIA is able to get their authority to operate in less than a week, when it used to take 18 months. So, I basically think what's happening is, the Cloud is providing an access point to IT modernization and the agency is showing that there is a blueprint that the rest of the government can also follow if they want to. >> One of the things we're involved in a lot of Blockchain covers, as well as kind of kicking the tires on Blockchain. You're in the middle of a Cloud gain with identity. Identity is the secret to having good scalable systems, because when you have good identity, good things happen. In Blockchain, some people say a theory about those. In IT, it's what identity you're going to use. How does the authority to operate challenge, you mentioned, become so important, because you're talking about massive amounts of time, I mean time savings. >> Wood: Yeah, so-- >> Just tease out the nuances of why it's so important to have that identity solution. >> So, in the past, there was no common language within which our cyber security professionals could engage with each other. Now, with the signing of the President's executive order on cyber security, the White House really is mandating the adoption if the NIST framework. What's relevant there is that on the one hand it provides you with a common language, but on the other hand, it's 11 hundred controls. So, as a result, automation is going to be key, to making sure that people can work with each other and making sure that, actually, the adoption actually takes off. >> They're safe, they know the trusted party. Is trust a big part of this and how does that--? >> I think what's happening, because the intelligence community has been working so closely together, and when I say the intelligence community, it's not just the traditional CIA, NSA, NRO, et cetera, it's also the military component of the intelligence community. So, you've got almost 38 assessors that are assessing C2S and SC2S. You know, the secret, if you will, Cloud, and the top secret Cloud, and those assessors all have been working in the same community under this framework and I think that has given them the confidence that the data is protected and as a result, they're heading much closer to reciprocity than ever before. >> There's been observations certainly on the Cube, we've said this many times with the past few years in tracking IT over the years, IT transformation, digital transformation, whatever you want to call it, buzz word. The reality is you had some progressives that would move faster and kick the tires, certainly financial services, in some areas you see that. Really, no problem. Then you had the folks who have just been consolidated down, didn't have a lot of budget and were lagging, waiting to adopt. Now there's no excuses, with cyber security, top of mind, with hacking, malware, ransomware, cyber warfare from nation states, sponsored states, an open source it's out of control. >> It is. >> So the security equations is forcing IT to move. The action has to be taken. What are you guys seeing in this area, because this is a big story and it's really putting a fire under everyone to move. >> And it's long over due. I co-wrote and article with our chief security officer in 2011, talking about why the Cloud was the way to go for federal, state, local, and education customers and at the end of the day, I think what's happening from a top cover perspective, the legislative community understands that. Obviously the Executive branch understands that, and now with editions like C2S the rest of the environment, the rest of the government can see what's possible. So, I believe the leadership within the government is ready for this change. They're seeing the benefit as it relates to C2S and SC2S and ultimately, the key is, the guys who run the contracts themselves, you got to make sure that those guys want that, to embrace that change too. >> Furrier: Yeah, so you have the-- >> And right now, 80, if you look across the government, 80% IT span is going back into maintenance. If you look at all my commercial customers, it's somewhere between 20 and 25%. What does that mean? It basically means that the government has a lot of legacy systems, which means that there's a lot of threats, and, which means there's a real cyber security problem. I believe fundamentally that by moving work loads to the Cloud, you'll be eliminating a lot of those cyber security problems. >> Yeah, it just means security is going to be the driver. The other thing I wanted to bring up, especially here in D.C., in public sector, is transparency. Now everyone can see everything. We're in a data-driven world, you can't hide either. The light is on, it's right there on the table. No more hiding. How has transparency been impacted in the procurement process, in the sales motions, the overall engagements with gov and public sector customers? >> I think, truth be told, there have been a lot of ideas that were sort of short-term and not really thoughtful, but the good news, as I said, is that the policy makers are really thinking and considering, trying to figure out how to make changes. Take for example, LPTA, low price technically acceptable. When I went to the congress and talked to both the House and the Senate side, and talked about how if I have one customer whose gotten hacked and the other customer has the same hack, but one happens to be a government customer and one's a commercial customer, the resources that we have are really trained, highly skilled, highly sought-after resources. Well, my commercial customers are willing to pay three to four hundred percent more than my government customers are. So when you have scarce resources, where are you going to apply them? You're going to apply them where the people are who are going to pay you. So my point to the Congress was simply to say, hey man, you get what you pay for. So ultimately, the good news is that, both on the House and the Senate side, that they elimanted LTPA, as it relates to cyber security, goods and services. So I believe, again, that there's a lot of, not just transparency happening, but there's a lot of people realizing that there are things that we can do. Procurement is kind of the last frontier for me. I have seen recently, I saw one of our government customers, where we were subcontracted, they went with something called an OTA, which stands for an other transaction agreement. Big problem in the government these days is everybody protest everything and there's really no downside to the protesting. With an OTA it's not protest-able. So I am seeing our government customers beginning to think about other means of actually doing things like procurement, and so that you can actually acquire. >> Are they going to have instant replay? (laughter) It sounds like the NFL, that call's not reversible. I mean, this is kind of, we're getting into all these rules and regulations where you've got protest, it seems that policy injection is not healthy at some level, because that point about what cost more on the commercial side, because of demand there, they understand the consequences and resource availability. To the government you just eliminated a policy that wasn't really helping. >> Right. >> So policy is a real consideration in here. >> I think so. Again though, it's a different environment than it was five or six years ago and I do think that there are some real positive things that are happening. I agree with you that there's a ground-swell of support behind the Cloud and certainly, players like us see the benefit associated with that shared security model. >> One of the things we've been observing and tracking on Sillaconangle and the Cube is this notion of public-private collaberation. Sharing data is a huge deal. Certainly, in Cyber people realize that data is valuable. Certainly, at Scale, you see patterns you might not see, customers on workloads, here and there, need to be identified. You're not sharing the data you don't know. So data sharing is a big deal, but also, collaborations between the private and public sector. Can you comment on what's going on there, because we're seeing some movement where, you're seeing some security agencies saying, "We'll share some stuff." >> Yeah. >> Furrier: You share some stuff with me, so you're seeing a little bit of the community developing heavily around data-sharing, what's you're take on that? >> So, I think we have a ways to go to make it work right, because if it was working right, you wouldn't see the very published, publicized hacks that have gone on. One of the things that the Congress can do is to provide incentives for the private sector to share more information, more quickly. When the Yahoo hacks occurred, it wasn't discovered until two or three years later. As a result, like I said, there's really no incentive and there's a perceived amount of liability. One of the things I'm asking some of our Congress people to consider is if you do share information, maybe, there's a limitation on liability and that provides, if you will, a mechanism and that provides an incentive for the private organization to work with the public organizations. >> So not to bury it, like Yahoo tried to bury that thing. >> Exactly. There's no sense in burying it. There should be no reason to bury. >> Okay, take a minute to talk about Telos, what you guys are doing, the chief executive. What's going on with the company, talk about the successes, where you guys are winning, your challenges and opportunities. >> Sure, we're in the business of, we do cyber security, we do identity and we do secure mobility. In the area of cyber security, I'm very proud about the fact that we're the database of record for intelligence community, many department of defense agencies use us, homeland security, a whole, department of safe-- There's a whole bunch of organizations that tend to work with us. I think that the issue for me has always been around investing in things that make our customers more efficient. So whether it's cyber security, it's one thing to provide the authority to operate, but I like to provide that authority to operate on a continuous basis. When we talk about identity, it's one thing to say that I am who I say I am, but it's another thing to let you know that I'm actually somebody that's trust worthy. So, we have a special relationship with the FBI that allows us to do real-time data look-ups on their people. We're the integrator of record for the common access card, the military ID card, we have been for a long time. From that, we built a business relationship with the TSA and now we have about 70 airports around America that use our service to do identity as a service for all their employees. >> Can you get me to cut the line at Pre? (laughter) >> You know, if you want to cut the line at TSA pre-- >> Quality of service opportunity and people will pay more for that. >> Absolutely. And plus, I think TSA pre-check wants to have a lot more people in that ecosystem too. No different than when the Easy Pass came into play years and years ago. I remember just zooming through the Easy Pass and wondering why people would want to stand in line, why would you, right? And then if you think about it, we're also involved with secure mobility, so we have a capability called Telos ghost that allows you to basically hide on a network. You're familiar with the notion of signal hopping? In World War two that's how we avoided detection by the enemy, so this is what we invented here with something around IP hopping. So as a result of that, whether you're a server-facing thing or a client-facing thing or a mobile device, you can't be seen on the network and if you can't be seen on the network, you can't be hacked. >> Well, that's awesome stuff. Your relationship with Amazon Web Services, talk about that, some of the things you're involved in. >> Yeah. >> The deals, the momentum. What's the relationship look like between you guys? >> So we have an enormous relationship with Amazon, most important part that we have, it started with the agency and I was in a meeting with Teresa Carlson, one of the senior people in the agency, and we wondered whether or not we could do for, we Telos, can do for the Cloud that which we've been doing for the enterprise for the better part of 15 to 17 years now, which is basically providing that authority to operate in an automated way. So we invested together and we were able to prove that we could absolutely do that. Now, what we're doing is we're basically copying and pasting that model to our customers across the government. >> And you guys put a stake in the ground, 2011. You were early. I mean 2008 was the beginning of the DevOps movement, you were in the heart of it in 2011. >> Wood: Yep. What's the biggest thing you've learned or observed or experienced over those years, since 2011? >> The biggest thing? >> Or just the most important. >> Wood: That is an enormous question. >> It could be the most important, the most relevant, most surprising-- >> Well the most important thing was I got married in 2012. (laughter) I have a four year old and two year old and a 14-year old, those are the most important. >> Was it really you who got married, was it your identity? >> Wood: It was really me and it was my identity. I will say, I think that the government is embracing efficiency. The government is embracing change. I think it started around 2014 or 15, and now it's really moving out. I think there's a lot of top cover, both from a policy side and an executive side and I'm seeing a lot of leadership from within the government itself of people who want to make the change happen. >> And there's also the competitive fairness question we're hearing, just here in town, yesterday, rumblings of one-source Cloud, multi-Cloud. Amazon is technically a one-source Cloud, but they've got an ecosystem. Should they have multi-Cloud in their requirements? All these things almost feel like that protest model is going on, like there's a little fud going everywhere from the other vendors. Do we expect to see more of that in your mind or less of it? (laughter) >> I think at the end of the day-- >> The chips are taken off the table. >> The people who don't want change are the ones, who are, if you will, very invested in the legacy. If those people are paid, time, material or cost blessed, they're not paid to be efficient. So there's going to be push back. On the other hand we've seen by the gigantic growth of the adoption of the Cloud and by the Cloud infrastructure and the Cloud ecosystem itself, there are enomorous opportunities for organizations out there. So I think people should embrace the change, I really do. I think, fundamentally, it's going to be a really big positive to this industry and into this region. >> I always say to Dave Vellante and my co-hosts, it's like no brainer, you look at the main frame, that was the generation when I was growing in the industry. I was the young gun, like main frame co-ball, who the hell wants that? Mini computer, eh, I want the client server. It's pretty obvious when you're in it. So I got to ask you with that in mind, Cloud is pretty obvious. Folks will understand DevOps and automation and those efficiences. You mentioned authority to operate as an example. Some of these numbers are pretty significant. So let's go down the problems that are important, what are the consequences, how do you quantify it, right? So the problem that people are trying to solve is how do I get resources, computing, software, whatever. Pretty important, because now you've got security, you've got all kinds of stuff. What are some of the consequences and you mentioned some benchmarks that you've quantified. You mentioned provisioning a server in a year. Is that really true? >> Wood: That's true! >> So give me some data on some of consequences, kind of the old way and new way. >> Well the old way if you're using the traditional procurement, it's like I said, one of the big issues is whether it was the culture or it's procurement roles or just the process to get an approval, it would take a year to get a server provisioned. Now, it's literally, you push a button and one to two minutes later you have a server, a new server. So you get ultimate scale, you get ultimate throughput, you pay as you go, you pay what you use. What's not to like? So that's all good. From the standpoint of security, because it's the NIST framework we can automate about 90% of that. That's 11 hundred controls, right? So we automate about 90% of those 11 hundred controls. Now, you get a whole bunch of auto inheritance, a whole bunch of things that can be automated are, and as a result, when NIST goes from one version of NIST to another version, all that happens automatically, and more importantly, as a cyber security professional, and I've only been at it since 1994. (laughter) I've been in it for relatively a long time as a CEO. As a cyber security professional, what I see is, as long as I can show a continuous monitoring of your current status, that's very relevant to the operational security professional. That's really good. So for us, we know that our customers are going to be a combination of Cloud, hybrid, and on-prem. These large organizations are going to take years and years and years to move to the Cloud, but they got to start, because now is the time. >> So automation and having that nice stack where it automatically updates and auto-provisioning, auto scaling, but the operational provisioning piece is really where the rubber meets the road, right? Is that what you're getting at? >> Well it's that. It's also you're consolidating your data centers. You don't need lots of them anymore. You can just focus on one, that's another big area. Another big area is, you can lift and shift your legacy IT infrastructure into the Cloud and then put the big investment into the new application as it's siting in there in the Cloud. >> Awesome, John, thanks for joining us here in the cube conversation. Here at Amazon Web Services Headquarters, breaking down the trends in GovCloud public sector as Cloud computing really levels the playing field, opens up new doors, new solutions, faster time to operate, in vi of other things, here in Washington, D.C., in Arlington, Virginia, I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (dramatic music)

>> Hi, Lisa Martin, on the ground, with the Cube at Google for the sixth annual CloudNOW Top Women in Cloud awards. And we are very excited to be joined by our next guest, Bridgit Kromhout, the principal Cloud developer advocate from Microsoft. Welcome to the Cube! >> Welcome, to me, wait. You know what? I feel like, it's so funny. I spend so much time hosting podcasts that I'm primed to start welcoming guests. (laughter) So. >> Well, thank you. I feel very welcomed. >> Hi. Thank you so much for having me. >> And we love your Microsoft-reflected hair extensions. That's so fantastic (laughter) So, Bridgit, you are a computer scientist by training, what was your education like? Were you a STEM kid from grade school all the way through graduating college? >> Yeah, it's kind of funny. I actually wasn't and I think that there's maybe a take away there for people who think, oh, it would be too hard to switch into computers. There's too much to learn. I mean, yes, there is a lot to learn, but I didn't have a computer until I was 16, so, and, I didn't know I was going to major in Computer Science until I took a programming class and realized I loved it and dropped all my other classes and completely switched my major. And I think that there's probably a lot of opportunities today that there weren't back when I did this in the 90's. You know, all sorts of boot camps and that sort of thing, but I think probably just that you can choose to go into tech from any starting point. ' Cause, like, not having a computer as a kid, I would go over to friend's houses and play Oregon Trail and, you know, Dive Dysentery, but I wouldn't have that at home and I turned out fine. >> Well, I love that you took a class and you tried it and that was transformative. I think that's one of the great lessons that even your experience can share is, try it. >> Absolutely. >> And it probably opened up your world too. Did it, well yeah, let's talk about that. >> Yeah. >> Did it open up your world to expose more of what computer science is than what you may have thought? >> You know, I had gone to some summer math camps as a teenager and you know, played around with fractals and you know, programs to generate fractals, like on the, I think it was probably SJI workstations, that the college we were at had and it was interesting to me but maybe not necessarily something I could take action on until I got to college and got access to unit systems and it's like the little kid in Jurassic Park, this is a unit system. I know this. (laughter) You know, I think that getting the opportunity to try things, whether it's in an academic setting or just with all of the free resources that are available today, it's super important. >> So, you went to the University of Minnesota, what surprised your or delighted you through your curriculum in computer science, when you were there? >> You know, it's kind of funny. I feel like there was a lot of emphasis on algorithms and data structures and probably, because I was working for the CS department as a Student Systems Administrator at the same time, I kept thinking like, well bigger notation, this is great, but let's talk about troubleshooting things on this, you know, Solaris system, because that's what I would actually do and I think that there is, I've come to realize over time that there's a lot of benefit to both. Like, you could spend a lot of time going down a rabbit hole if you don't have a firm theoretical background of what's actually possible, and how you can speed up a system. So, it's good to have that theoretical background, but I think it's also really important to focus on the like, the observability and the usability of systems and your detailed troubleshooting steps. I think of it like, you spent a lot of time in college taking classes where they emphasize the Scientific Method and you learning to prove that gravity works was never the point. >> Right. >> Because, obviously, we all know that but you learning how to isolate variables and observe accurately, helps a lot in terms of solving problems in production systems later. >> Good insight. So, you're very involved in the community. You are, you mentioned, podcasts. You go to conferences. You blog. What inspires you to share your knowledge, your experiences, and be involved in the community? >> I mean, I think that I had a manager some years ago who encouraged me to speak at a local UN conference and I brought a co-worker and spoke with him and it was a very new experience for me and I was nervous and what I realized is, that the room was full of people who, they weren't there to stare at me or judge me, they were there because they really hoped to get some insights for things they were trying to do and I think realizing that, whatever it is that you're putting out there in the world, people aren't looking at it to judge you, they're looking at it 'cause they need something and realizing that makes it so much more interesting and also, less scary to share. >> I imagine rewarding, as well. >> I think so. Like, especially because people are often looking for ways that they can drive change inside their organization, how they can convince somebody to use the exciting new framework or the exciting new, you know, container orchestration or whatever, that they're trying to use. Like, a lot of times, people who are paying attention to the wider world of tech really want to use exciting new things, but, hey, spoiler alert, if you work in a company with more than two people, there will probably be at least two opinions. >> Yeah. (laughter) >> So, you have to. >> You can basically go and do that, right? >> Yeah. Right? >> Yeah. >> So, you have to have not just all the technical background. I like to joke that, you know, I majored in Computer Science 'cause I didn't want to talk to people and, oops, turns out, tech is full of humans. Software is made of people. >> Yep, right. >> Like sort of an ingredient, right? >> Yeah. >> And, it's like, you can't, you can't avoid that and I say, just embrace it. >> I love that. Do you have any themes to your podcasts or to your blogs? >> Yeah, I think there's a talk I gave a number of times in the last year called, Containers Will Not Fix Your Broken Culture And Other Hard Truths. >> Interesting. >> And, then I gave, I decided a few months after I gave that one enough times that I was bored of hearing myself talk, I started giving one called Computers Are Easy, People Are Hard, because I think that the tech stuff that we're all excited about has a lot of socio-technical components, in terms of the interactions. >> Yeah. >> Like, every single technical choice you want to make has a certain weight and gravity to it of the way the other people feel about how you maybe made their job harder or easier or maybe that they now feel displaced. Maybe they're not sure what their place is in the exciting new world where you changed everything out from under them and they were just hoping to hold on a couple years more, until they retired and I think, as a mid-career professional, shall we put it that way? I, of course, I see all the kids these days TM, but I also see and sympathize with all the people who, who really prefer the industry not have another giant C change right this second. >> Right. >> 'Cause they kind of just want to vest and get out and it's like, I think we have to be empathetic and understanding of everyone's perspective along that entire spectrum, 'cause there's a lot of benefit to exciting change and there's also a lot of benefit to contextual knowledge of your local environment. >> Right. >> And, it's like, people at different ends of, you know, their career trajectory have you know, a varying degree of either of those, and I think it's really important and positive to listen to everyone. >> I love that because culture is something that we talk about a lot with technology executives that we're talking to in the Cube, whether it's a C level or a line of business manager or a product person and cultural change is hard. >> Really hard. >> To impact but, you bring up a great point about where you are on the career trajectory. You're opinions or experience is going to influence that. >> It totally will. I mean, especially because, so, I just started a couple months ago, working at Microsoft. I spent the two years before that working at Pivotal, talking to a lot of our customers in large enterprises and governments and you know, banks and that sort of thing and you have a lot of resistance to and fear of change when it feels like the stakes are really high and there's a lot of uncertainty and so, anywhere that, from a technical point of view, you can help with that uncertainty. Whether it's by, instead of the artisanally, hand-whittled servers in your data center, maybe looking at public Cloud, anything that can make steps more reproducible, so that you don't have to cling so much to what you were doing before and can, hopefully, extend past that. Like, there's a lot of places where that the exciting wave of IT improvement that a lot of orgs are doing intersects with people's desire to maybe have challenges but also, still feel valued. Like, there's a lot of places where, considering those human factors, when making exciting organizational change happen, which everybody needs to for their profit motives or you know, their organizational mission, in general. I think it's really beneficial. >> Speaking of feeling valued, who do you value? Who are some of your mentors that inspire you today? >> You know, it's funny you should ask that because I feel like mentorship is one of those things where I have a giant question mark. I'm not sure if I've had it done right or have ever done it right or whatever. I would say I'm definitely inspired by a lot of the women I know in technology. In particular, like, for example, Jessie Frazelle. I happen to work on the same team with her now at Microsoft, which we did not, either of us, know that the other one was going there when I had her keynote, Dev Up Stays Minneapolis, last summer and then, in just a couple months later, it was like, oh, you're going to Microsoft? What team? We're going to the same team. This is fantastic! >> Wow, that's great. >> But, I bring her up as an example because I think that if you, no matter how long you've been in tech and she's younger than I am and has been in tech a shorter amount of time, and yet, like, she both contributes, you know, solid technical content. She has commits in the Linux kernel, but she also makes sure to put information out there to help other people. I think that, that's a really, it's what I look up to and what I try to emulate is it's great to be technical, but we also have to be human. >> I love that. Well, Bridget, thank you so much for stopping by the Cube and sharing your story and congrats on the award. >> Thank you so much. >> We thank you for watching again. Lisa Martin, on the ground, with the Cube at Google for the CloudNow Top Women in Cloud Awards. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Midtown Manhattan, it's theCUBE, covering Big Data, New York City, 2017. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem sponsors. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. Live in Manhattan, this is theCUBE's coverage of our fifth year doing Big Data, NYC; eighth year covering Hadoop World, which is now evolved into Strata Data which is right around the corner. We're doing that in conjunction with that event. This is, again, where we have the thought leaders, we have the experts, we have the entrepreneurs and CEOs come in, of course. The who's who in tech. And my next two guests, is Jagane Sundar, CUBE alumni, who was on yesterday. CTO of WANdisco, one of the hottest companies, most valuable companies in the space for their unique IP, and not a lot of people know what they're doing. So congratulations on that. But you're here with one of your partners, a company I've heard of, called Microsoft, also doing extremely well with Azure Cloud. We've got Pranav Rastogi, who's the program manager of Microsoft Cloud Azure. You guys have an event going on as well at Microsoft Ignite which has been creating a lot of buzz this year again. As usual, they have a good show, but this year the Cloud certainly has taken front and center. Welcome to theCUBE, and good to see you again. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Alright, so talk about the partnership. You guys, Jagane deals with all the Cloud guys. You're here with Microsoft. What's going on with Microsoft? Obviously they've been, if you look at the stock price. From 20-something to a complete changeover of the leadership of Satya Nadella. The company has mobilized. The Cloud has got traction, putting a dent in the universe. Certainly, Amazon feels a little bit of pain there. But, in general, a lot more work to do. What are you guys doing together? Share the relationship. >> So, we just announced a product that's a one-click deployment in the Microsoft Azure Cloud, off WANdisco's Fusion Replication technology. So, if you got some data assets, Hadoop or Cloud object stores on-premise and you want to create a hybrid or a Cloud environment with Azure and Picture, ours is the only way of doing Active/Active. >> Active/Active. And there is some stuff out there that's looking like Active/Active. DataPlane by Hortonworks. But it's fully not Active/Active. We talked a little bit about that yesterday. >> Jagane: Yes. >> Microsoft, you guys, what's interesting about these guys besides the Active/Active? It's a unique thing. It's an ingredient for you guys. >> Yes, the interesting thing for us is, the biggest problem that we think customers have for big data perspective is, if you look at the landscape of the ecosystem in terms of open source projects that are available it's very hard to a: figure out How do I use this software?, b: How do I install it? And, so what we have done is created an experience in Azure HDInsight where you can discover these applications, within the context of your cluster and you can install these applications by one-click install. Which installs the application, configures it, and then you're good to go. We think that this is going to sort of increase the productivity of users trying to get sense out of big data. The key challenges we think customers have today is setting up some sort of hybrid environment between how do you connect your on premise data to move it to the Cloud, and there are different use cases that you can have you can move parts of the data and you can do experiment easily in the Cloud. So what we've done is, we've enabled WANdisco as an application on our HDInsight application platform, where customers can install it using a single-click deploy connected with the data that's sitting on-prem, use the Active/Active feature to have both these environments running simultaneously and they're in sync. >> So one benefits the one-click thing, that's on your side, right? You guys are enabling that. So, okay, I get that. That's totally cool. We'll get to that in a second. I want to kind of drill down on that. But, what's the benefit to the customers, that you guys are having? So, I'm a customer, I one-click, I want some WANdisco Active/Active. Why am I doing it? What does the Cloud change? How does your Cloud change from that experience? >> One example that you can think about is going to change is in an on-premise environment you have a cluster running, but you're kind of limited on what you can do with the cluster, because you've already setup the number of nodes and the workloads your running is fairly finite, but what's happening in reality and today is, lots of users, especially in the machine learning space, and AI space, and the analytic space are using a lot of open source libraries and technologies and they're using it on top of Hadoop, and they're using it on top of Spark. However, in experimenting with these technologies is hard on-prem because it's a locked environment. So we believe, with the Cloud, especially with it offering WANdisco and HDInsight, once you move the data you can start spinning up clusters, you can start installing more open source libraries, experiment, and you can shut down the clusters when you're done. So it's going to increase your efficiency, it's going to allow you to experiment faster, and it's going to reduce for cost as well, because you don't have to have the cluster running all the time and once you are done with your experimentation, then you can decide which way do you want to go. So, it's going to remove the-- >> Jagane, what's your experience with Azure? A lot of people have been, some people have been critical, and rightfully so. You guys are moving as fast you can. You can only go as fast you can, but the success of the Cloud has been phenomenal. You guys have done a great job with the Cloud. Got to give you props on that. Your customers are benefiting, or Microsoft's customers are benefiting. How's the relationship? Are you getting more customers through these guys? Are you bringing customers from on-prem to Cloud? How's the customer flow going? >> Almost all of our customers who have on-prem instances of Hadoop are considering Cloud in one form or the other. Different Clouds have different strengths, as they've found-- >> Interviewer: And different technologies. >> Indeed. And Azure's strengths appear to be the HDInsight piece of it and as Pranam just mentioned, the cool thing is, you can replicate into the Cloud, start up a 50 node Spark cluster today to run a query, that may return results to you really fast. Now, remember this is data that you can write to both in the Cloud and on-premise. It's kept consistent by our technology, or tomorrow you may find that somebody tells you, Hive with the new Tez enhancements is faster, sure, spin up a hundred node Hive cluster in the Cloud, HDInsight supports that really well. You're getting consistent data and your queries will respond much faster than your on-premise. >> We've had Oliver Chu on, before with Hortonworks obviously they're partnering there. HDInsight's been getting a lot of traction lately. Where's that going? We've seen some good buzz on that. Good people talking about it. What's the latest update on your end? >> HDInsight is doing really good. The customers love the ease of creating a cluster using just a few clicks and the benefits that customers get, clusters are optimized for certain scenarios. So if you're doing data science, you can create a Spark cluster, install open source libraries. We have Microsoft R Server running on Spark, which is a unique offering to Microsoft, which lots of customers have appreciated. You also have streaming scenarios that you can do using open source technologies, like we have Apache Kafka running on a stack, which is becoming very popular from an ingestion perspective. Folks have been-- >> Has the Kupernetes craze come down to your group yet? Has it trickled down? It seems to be going crazy. You hired an amazing person from Google, Brendan Burns, we've interviewed before. He's part of the original Kubernetes spec he now works for Microsoft. What's the buzz on the Kubernetes container world there? >> In general, Microsoft Azure has seen great benefits out of it. We are seeing lots of traction in that space. From my role in particular, I focus more on the HDInsight big data space, which is kind of outside of what we do with Kubernetes' work. >> And your relationship is going strong with WANdisco? >> Pranav: Yes. >> Right. >> We just launched this offering just about yesterday is what we announced and we're looking forward to getting customers on to the stack. >> That's awesome. What's your take on the industry right now? Obviously, the partnerships are becoming clearer as people can see there's (mumbles). You're starting to see the notion of infrastructure and services are changing. More and more people want services and then you got the classic infrastructure which looks like it's going to be hybrid. That's pretty clear, we see that. Services versus infrastructure, how should customers think about how they architect their environments? So they can take advantage of the Active/Active and also have a robust, clean, not a lot of re-skilling going on, but more of a good organization from a personnel standpoint, but yet get to a hybrid architecture? >> So, it depends, the Cloud gives you lots of options to meet the customers where they are. Different customers have different kinds of requirements. Customers who have specialized, some of their applications will probably want to go more of an infrastructure route, but customers also love to have some of the past benefits where, you know, I have a service running where I don't have to worry about the infrastructure, how dispatching happen, how does OS updates happen, how does maintenance happen. They want to sort of rely on the Microsoft Azure Cloud provider to take care of it. So that they can focus on their application specific logic, or business specific logic, or analytical workloads, and worry about optimizing those parts of the application because that is their core-- >> It's been great.I want to get your thoughts real quick. Share some color. What's going on inside Microsoft? Obviously, open source has become a really big part of the culture, even just at Ignite. More Linux news is coming. You guys have been involved in Linux. Obviously, open source with Azure, ton of stuff, I know is built in the Microsoft Cloud on open source. You're contributing now as to Kubernetes, as I mentioned earlier. Seems to be a good cultural shift at Microsoft. What's the vibe on the open source internally at Microsoft? Can you share, just some anecdotal insight into what's the vibe like inside, around open source? >> The vibe has increased quite a lot around open source. You rightly mentioned, just recently we've announced a SQL server on Linux as well, at the Ignite conference. You can also deploy a SQL server on a docker container, which is quite revolutionary if you think about how forward we have come. Open source is so pervasive it's almost used in a lot of these projects. Microsoft employees are contributing back to open source projects in terms of, bug fixes, feature requests, or documentation updates. It's a very, very active community and by and large I think customers are benefiting a lot, because there are so many folks working together on open source projects and making them successful and especially around the Azure stack, we also ensure that you can run these open source workloads lively in the Cloud. From an enterprise perspective, you get the best of both worlds. You get the latest innovations happening in open source, plus the reliability of the managed platform that Azure provides at an enterprise scale. >> So again, obviously Microsoft partnership is huge, all the Clouds as well. Where do you want to take the relationship with Microsoft? What happens next? You guys are just going to continue to do business, you're like expecting the one-click's nice, I have some questions on that. What happens next? >> So, I see our partnership becoming deeper. We see the value that HDInsight brings to the ecosystem and all of that value is captured by the data. At the end of the day, if you have stale data, if you have data that you can't rely on the applications are useless. So we see ourselves getting more and more deeply embedded in the system. We see of ourselves as an essential part of the data strategy for Azure. >> Yeah, we see continuous integration as a development concept, continuous analytics as a term, that's being kicked around. We were talking yesterday about, here in theCUBE, real time, I want some data real time and IT goes back, "Here it is, it's real time!" No, but the data's three weeks old. I mean, real time (laughs) is a word that doesn't mean I got to see it really fast, low latency response. Well, that's not the data I want. I meant the data in real time, not you giving me a real time query. So again, this brings up a mind shift in terms of the new way to do business in the Cloud and hybrid. It's changing the game. As customers scratch their heads and try to figure out how to make their organizations more DevOps oriented, what do you guys see for advice for those managers, who are really getting behind it, really want to make change, who kind of have to herd the cats a little bit, and maybe break out security and put it in it's own group? Or you come and say, okay IT guys we're going to change into our operating model, even on-prem, we'll use some burst in to the Cloud, Azure's got 365 on there, lot of coolness developing. What's the advice for the mindset of the change agents out there that are going to do the transformation? >> My advice would be, if you've done the same thing by hand over two times, it's time you automated it, but-- >> Interviewer: Two times?! >> Two times. >> No three rule? Three strikes you're out? >> You're saying two, contrarian. >> That's a careful statement. Because, if you try automating something that you've never actually tried by hand, that's a disaster as well. A couple times, so you know how it's supposed to work. >> Interviewer: Get a good groove on it. >> Right, then you optimize, you automate, and then you turn the knobs. So, you try a hundred node cluster, maybe that's going to be faster. Maybe after a certain point, you don't get any improvements, so you know how to-- >> So take some baby steps, and one easy way to do it is to automate something that you've done. >> Jagane: Yes, exactly. >> That's almost risk-free, relatively speaking. Thoughts, advice to change agents out there. This is your industry hat on. You can take your Microsoft hat off. >> Baby steps. So you start small, you get familiar with the environment and your toolsets are provided so that you get a consistent experience on what you were doing on-prem and sort of in a hybrid space. And the whole idea is as you get more comfortable the benefits of the Cloud far outweigh any sort of cultural changes that need to happen-- >> Guys, thanks for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate it. Thoughts on the Big Data NYC this week? What do you think? >> I think it's a conference that has a lot of Cloud hanging over it and people are scratching their heads. Including vendors, customers, everybody scratching their head, but there is a lot of Cloud in this conference, although this is not a Cloud conference. >> Yeah, they're trying to make it an AI conference. A lot of AI watching certainly we're seeing that everywhere. But again, nothing wrong hyping up AI. It's good for society. It really is cool, but still, that's talking about baby steps, AI is still not there. It seems like, AI from when I got my CS degree in the 80's, not a lot innovation, well machine learning is getting better, but, a lot more way to go on AI. Don't you think? >> Yes, you know a few of the announcements we've made in this week is all about making it easier for developers to get started with AI and machine learning and our whole hope is with these investments that we've done and Azure machine learning improvements and the companion app and the workbench, allows you to get started very easily with AI and machine learning models and you can apply and build these models, do a CICD process and deploy these models and be more effective in the space. >> Yeah and also the tooling market has kind of gotten out of control. We were just joking the other day, that there's this tool shed mindset where everything is in the tool shed and people bought a hammer and turned it into a lawnmower. So it's like, you got to be careful which tools you have. Think about a platform. Think holistically, but if you take the baby steps and implement it, certainly it's there. My personal opinion, I think the Cloud is the equalizer. Cloud can bring compute power that changes what a tool was built for. Even, go back six years, the tools that were out there even six years ago are completely changed by the impact of unlimited, potentially unlimited capacity horsepower. So, okay that resets a little bit. You agree? >> I do. I totally agree. >> Who wins, who loses on the reset? >> The Cloud is an equalizer, but there is a mindset shift that goes with that those who can adapt to the mindset shift, will win. Those who can not and are still clinging to their old practices will have a hard time. >> Yeah, it's exciting. If you're still reinventing Hadoop from 2011 then, probably not good shape right now. >> Jagane: Not a good place to be. >> Using Hadoop is great for Bash, but you can't make that be a lawnmower. That's my opinion. Okay, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it (laughs) You're smiling, you got something that you, no? >> Pranav: (laughs) Thank you so much for that comment. >> Yeah, tool sheds are out there, be careful. Guys do your job. Congratulations on your partnership, appreciate it. This is theCUBE, live in New York. More after this short break. We'll be right back.

>>Now, this is siliconangle.com exclusive coverage of Sapphire. This is the cube, our flagship program where we go out to the events, extract the signal from the noise. This is our fourth year of the cube born four years ago at SAP and EMC world. And we uh, we call it the ESPN of tech back in the day. And uh, you know, we always joke that, you know, there wasn't any deep dive commentary, but we're pleased to actually have what ESPN would love to have on Adam silver, the deputy commissioner of the NBA. Um, Chris Berman and all the folks at the, at ESPN would eat their heart out to have, have you here. So welcome to the cube. Oh, thank you. It's great to be off. So SAP Owsley's how about the future of business and this modern era of, of a business with technology, real time NBA has been very progressive. >>You guys have a modernization going on now. The franchisors are changing, the fan base is changing. You're here at SAP. What are you talking about here at SAP with bill McDermott and the team and what does the NBA look at is as a sports franchise, a sports league, and with a lot of franchises it's moving and changing and the old contracts and the old rules aren't, aren't really relevant when you have Twitter and you have unlimited media, frictionless sharing. How do you, how do you view all that? Well, we're here looking for solutions. I mean frankly I that we know what we don't know. I mean just the specific example with HANA and SAP is that when David stern, I first met, sat down with bill McDermott a few years ago and said we have this issue with our stats database and we want to find a way to allow fans wherever they're located to engage deeply with those statistics, weather for predictive behavior and to analyze what they think is going to happen in a particular game or to make relative comparisons, you know, between players, among players in the league. >>And he explained to us what Hannah was and we ended up meeting with one of Bill's teams@sapwhoultimatelydesignedanewstatisticaldatabasesystemforuswhereyoucangoonnba.com and access, um, any of the kinds of permutations, statistics I've been talking about. And, and frankly, one of the reasons we got there, to your point about how the world is evolving around us is that there were lots of other sites that I won't name that were doing that, you know, they didn't necessarily have the official data. And I thought this isn't a question of sending out an army of lawyers to shut them down. This is a question of out competing them instead of how can anybody be doing a better job than the MBA. We own this data, we have the richest data, we have the deepest data, we haven't in real time, fans should want to come to NBC. Dot to get that information. The best defense is a good offense in this case. >>Right? Exactly, exactly. And so that's our relationship with SAP. And even just the several hours I've spent already here today, sort of in the green room behind the scenes talking to bill and his executive team. It's like, all right, here are some other business issues we have. We've talked about China earlier today. We've talked about how to connect with our fans and look, you know, that only a minuscule percentage of our fans actually experience our game in person. You know, that's just the nature of it. So it's really through technology, through innovation that we're going to connect with fans on a global basis. That's why I'm here. So what was your >>comment on the keynote about bill McDermott share with the folks here about his history >>with basketball and so, Oh, so anyways, with bill, isn't that interesting? Coincidentally, when we first sat down with bill, he mentioned that his grandfather was Bobby McDermott, Bobby McDermott I'd heard of. But honestly I hadn't thought a lot about, I went back to the office and we have an archivist named Paul Hirsch Heimer and our office say, Paul, tell me everything you can about Bobby McDorman. He goes, Bobby McDermott. And like he'd just off the top of his head, he goes, he goes, Bob McDermott, you might not realize this, but in 1946 he was named the greatest basketball player in the history of the then NBL, the predecessor league to the NBA. He was a five 11 guard. He averaged over 20 points a game. And back then this was like obviously more than 35 years before the three point shot. This was before anybody was averaging 20 points a game. And he was, I think the three time MVP. He won two championships. I could go on and on, but it's incredible. And you know, this morning I actually, my friend and colleague Paul Hirsch Heimer found an old Bobby McDermott trading card. I don't even have any boundaries, which I presented to bill. But you know, it's, it's like the coincidence that that's our relationship now. It's, it's this frankly a really cool >>kind of gesture to be fantastic. And bill McDermott, it's just a great guy. And the keynote up there, they had that little anchor desk, kind of like the cube format. >>And don't forget JBS basketball credentials. The Harvard basketball team, >>Twitter saying, I'm negotiating with JBS age. People thought I was really serious about coming on and anchoring the cubes a JV. If you're watching, we want you drafted by the Atlanta Hawks McDermott on his keynote, Dermot on his keynote, talked about an in business example. You know, talking about, always talks about, you know, if people using this and got the bartender, how they're instrumenting the tab and it's just a gut crest. Great example of instrumentation measurement data that they couldn't get before internet of things. Whatever industrial internet is GE calls it. I want to ask you something a little bit more about the NBA in this regard because the NBA has really done great strides of, I won't say cleaning up the game, but looking at the integrity of the players off the court and on the court. And that's been something that uh, you know, stern has done extremely well, but now you have, you have the ability to instrument the, the actual athletes. They're on Twitter, they're building their own direct fan basis. So, so the question is how do you guys look at that as an opportunity? And challenge, how do you guys, cause now you have more media there, they're self promoting, >>right? And look, I don't want to suggest by any means we can control, you know what they do, but we can monitor it. We can do it to a certain extent. And what we said to our players mean your employees. Just like I'm an employee of a company and I think, you know, and there are certain limits. I mean especially one thing we can do is say, you know, during 45 minutes before the game, through the game, certain period afterwards when we require media availability, we don't want them going off and tweeting in the corner. We want them talking to media and they recognize that's part of their job. We monitor it to a certain extent, but we also are realistic. You know, I think that we understand that it's an opportunity for them to connect directly with their fans or in certain cases people aren't their fans. But we, and we also understand that it's an expectation of fans in this day and age that they're going to have that direct access to our athletes. And I and, and I think it's synergistic. I mean it's, it's, it's effective. I mean recognizing that it's warts and all that. Players get themselves in trouble. League executives get themselves in trouble and owners get themselves in trouble increases. >>I know as well. I know you've got to run, so do you want to kind of get one last question and I'll see the TV contracts over the years have been pretty much territorial couple of networks and now you have cable, now you have unlimited, now you have NFL TV, MLB TV, NBA vertical and programming where you can control your own destiny, you have different inside looks, all that data. How you're looking at the future of media in that regard where now you have unlimited outlets potential. Can you talk about how you're looking at that and maybe some of the tech approaches that you did? >>Yeah, well I would just say it's, it's going to be a balance. We recognize that people still want aggregators or editors and that you mentioned ESPN at the top of the show. I mean people are still going to go to ESPN and expect to get the best highlights, you know, presumably the game of the week or the game of the night or whatever else. But in addition to that, there are some parents who only want to consume NBA, don't want to sit through sports center and get the hockey scores first or the baseball scores or whatever else. And for those people, there's NBA TV, there's nba.com and other outlets and like thousands of others that we didn't create. So I think for us it's a realization that you need to do both. And that some fans, you know are out there have want to consume us, you know, in an incredibly deep ways and get down to like the nitty gritty statistics and others just want to have the highlights and you've got to serve all those fans. >>Well, we get the hook from your handler. Adam silver, a deputy, >>how can my man, Jeff, I don't have a handler. This is fantastic. I appreciate, appreciate you taking the time. So my question, uh, I wanted to ask was, uh, so obviously SAP Sapphire, it's a, it's a technology event in some ways, but it's also a business event. And in this market we talked a lot about the technology but less maybe sometimes about the business value of all this technology. And you mentioned an example earlier about making data and predictive analytics available to um, all the fans out there who might not be my knife to go to an event. So can you translate that, how does that translate to business value for the NDA and more broadly when you're looking at areas where data might provide business value, how do you identify those areas where you want to focus on build new capabilities? Um, focusing on, you know, the data is, is the underlying kind of enabler and the technology is the enabler, but really how do you identify where the business value is? So, >>you know, I'll say one easy example again, just going back to the stats database that, that SAP HANA built for us. Um, we've already seen that we've doubled the amount of time that our fans spent on mba.com looking at statistics than we did before we had an Ohana database. So that's just a simple example and clear. There's all kinds of ways of monetizing that traffic when you dealt with there. But I think from a more general standpoint, it's about increasing engagement. Um, as I said in response to an earlier question, um, one of the fundamental things we look at in terms of television viewership is duration. And we found that from when the time I still got involved in the NBA a little over 20 years ago, let's say the average fan was watching two and a half hour game, 50 minutes. The average fan is now watching around 40 minutes just because it's the nature of the number of options they have. >>And if through deep data we can increase that engagement, we find other ways that the people remain interested in the game, frankly, that they may be a knick fan, but if their team is down 15 points and there's two minutes left, they're turning the channel. On the other hand, if they're engaged and they're thinking, all right, you know, what does Carmelo Anthony do typically with a minute left in the game, what are his fourth quarter statistics? How does he behave when a team is down? Ken, statistically a team overcome a deficit of 15 points in that many minutes. We find all those kinds of new approaches to the game help us monetize and help by increasing the level of passion, passion, and, and, and depth of fandom, you know, for our consumers. >>and in terms of actually making those decisions, how is the ability to, to do those kinds of analytics internally? How has that impacted how the NBA operates in terms of, you know, sometimes making data driven decisions and, and, and, and using data to, to kind of do business is that there's a cultural and a people issue? >>Well, yeah. Uh, I'll give you another example. And this is on the business side and that is ticket pricing. I mean, through analytics we've entered into a new world of flexible ticket pricing where it's dynamic pricing price. So now you know in the, in the old days, which weren't so long ago, you know, if you bought a season ticket package for the Orlando magic here in Orlando, of course you know it was the same price for every ticket. Now the teams that recognize that people that there's different values for different games, it's just a function of data and it's based on demand for those particular games. People may care more about seeing the Miami he played than they will another team that I won't mention at least in that particular season. And then secondly, teams are also realizing that people just like with the airlines, people will pay a certain price for the ability to lock in that seat two weeks before the game and they're going to pay a different price to get a seat an hour before the game. And so by mining all that data, we're in essence able to increase the yield from any particular game. >>Fantastic. Well Adam, I appreciate you taking the time to answer. It's only one question we didn't know we get the hook. So short of a Adam silver. Thanks for coming on because this is the NBA onside. The cue we call the ESPN of tech and we copied ESPN on Twitter. Thanks for coming. Thanks for coming on. The cube and NBA is transforming. I'll say digital media is, I was exploding and I'll see with technology like SAP, they're going to start doing new things. Thanks for coming on the really appreciate it. We'll be right back with our guests and deep dive into SAP and all the action here on the ground. This is exclusive coverage from siliconangle.com and Wiki bond. This is the Cuba right back after this short break.