from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante snowflake they love the stock at 400 and hated at 165 that's the nature of the business i guess especially in this crazy cycle over the last two years of lockdowns free money exploding demand and now rising inflation and rates but with the fed providing some clarity on its actions the time has come to really dig into the fundamentals of companies and there's no tech company that's more fun to analyze than snowflake hello and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we look at the action of snowflake stock since its ipo why it's behaved the way it has how some sharp traders are looking at the stock and most importantly what customer demand looks like the stock has really provided some great theater since its ipo i know people who got in at 120 before the open and i know lots of people who kind of held their noses and bought the stock on day one at over 300 a day when it closed at around 240 that first day of trading snowflake hit 164 this week it's all-time low as a public company as my college roommate chip simonton a long time trader told me when great companies trade at all times time lows because of panic it's worth taking a shot he did now of course the stock could go lower there's geopolitical risk and the stock with a 64 billion market cap is expensive for a company that's forecast to do around 2 billion in product revenue this year and remember i don't recommend stocks you shouldn't take my advice and my comments you got to do your own research but i have lots of data and i have opinions and i'm willing to share that with you stocks like snowflake crowdstrike z-scaler octa and companies like this are highly volatile when markets are moving up they're going to move up faster than the mean when they're declining they're going to drop more severely and that's clearly what's happened to snowflake so with a company like this you when you see panic selling you'll also see panic buying sometimes like we we've seen with this name it went from 220 to 320 in a very short period earlier snowflake put in a short-term bottom this week and many traders feel the issue was oversold so they bought okay but not everyone felt this way and you can see this in the headlines snowflake hits low but cloud stocks rise and we're going to come back to that is it a buy don't buy the dip buy the dip and what snowflake investors can learn from microsoft and from the street.com snow stock is sliding on the back of ill-conceived guidance and to that i would say that conservative guidance these days is anything but ill-conceived now let's unpack all this a bit and to do so i reached out to ivana delevska who has been on this program before she's with spear invest a female-led etf that goes deep into understanding supply chains she came on breaking analysis and laid out her thesis to buy the dip on snowflake this is a while ago she told me currently spear still likes snowflake and has doubled its position let me share her analysis she called out two drivers for the downside interest rates you know rising of course in snowflakes guidance which my own publication called weak in that previous chart that i just showed you so let's dig into that a bit snowflake guided for product revenues of 67 year on year which was below buy side expectations but i believe within sell side consensus regardless the guide was nuanced and driven by snowflake's decision to pass along price efficiencies to customers from optimizing processor price performance predominantly from aws's graviton too this is going to hit snowflakes revenue a net of about a hundred million dollars this year but the timing's not precise because it's going to hit 165 million but they're going to make up 65 million in increased demand frank slootman on the earnings call made this very clear he said quote this is not philanthropy this stimulates demand classic slootman the point is spear and other bulls believe that this will result in a gain for snowflake over the medium term and we would agree price goes down roi gets better you throw more projects at snowflakes customers going to buy more snowflake and when that happens and it gives the company an advantage as they continue to build their moat it's a longer term bet on cloud and data which are good bets now some of this could also be competitive pressures there have been you know studies that are out there from competitors attacking snowflakes pricing and price performance and they make comparisons oracle's been pretty aggressive as have others but so far the company's customers continue to consume now at a very fast rate now on on this front what can we learn from microsoft that applies to snowflake that's the headline here from benzinga so the article quoted a wealth manager named josh brown talking about what happened to microsoft after the dot-com bubble burst and how they quadrupled earnings over the next decade and the stock went sideways suggesting the same thing could happen to snowflake now i'd like to make a couple of comments here first at the time microsoft was a 23 billion dollar company and it had a monopoly and was already highly profitable steve ballmer became the ceo of microsoft right after the dot-com bubble burst and he hugged onto windows for dear life and lived off of microsoft's pc software monopoly microsoft became an extremely profitable and remarkably uninteresting caretaker of a pc in on-prem software estate during balmer's tenure so i just don't see the comparison as relevant snowflake you know they're going to make struggle for other reasons but that one didn't really resonate with me what's interesting is this chart it poses the question do cloud and data markets behave differently it's a chart that shows aws growth rates over time and superimposes the revenue in the red in q1 2018 aws generated 5.4 billion dollars in revenue and that was growing at the time at nearly a 50 rate now that rate as you can see decelerated quite significantly as aws grew to a 50 billion dollar run rate company that down below where you see it bottoms now it makes sense right law of large numbers you can't keep growing that fast when you get that big well oops look what happened in 2021 aws's growth rate bottoms in the high 20s and then rockets back up to 40 this past quarter as aws surpasses a 70 billion dollar run rate so you have to ask is cloud different is data different is cloud data different or data cloud different let's put it in the snowflake parlance can cloud because of its consumption model and the speed of innovation and ecosystem depth and breadth enable snowflake to exhibit lots of variability in its growth rates versus a say progressive and somewhat linear decline as the company grows revenue which is what you would expect historically and part of the answer relates to its market size here's a chart we've shared before with some additions it's our version of snowflake's total available market they're tam which snowflake's version that that blue data cloud thing superimposed on the right it shows the various layers of market opportunity that we came up with that that snowflake and others we think have in front of them emerging from the disruption of legacy data lakes and data warehouses to what snowflake refers to as its data cloud we think about the data mesh concept and decentralized data architectures with domain ownership and data product and service builders as consistent with snowflake's data cloud vision where snowflake data stores are nodes they're just simply discoverable nodes on the mesh you could have you know data bricks data lakes you know s3 buckets on that mesh it doesn't matter they can be discovered they can be shared and of course they're governed in a federated model now in snowflake's model it's all inside the snowflake data cloud that's fine then you'll go to the out years it gets a little fuzzy you know from edge locations and ai inference it becomes massive and decision making occurs in real time where machines and machine data take over the world instead of you know clicks and keystrokes sounds out there but it's real and how exactly snowflake plays there at this point is unclear but one thing's for sure there'll be a lot of data and it's going to find its way into snowflake you know snowflake's not a real-time engine it's an analytical system it's moving into the realm of data science and you know we've talked about the need for you know semantic layer between those those two worlds of analytics and data science but expanding the scope further out we think that snowflake is a big role to play in this future and the future is massive okay check you got the big tam now as someone that looks at companies through a fundamentals prism you've got to look obviously at the markets in the tan which we just did but you also want to understand customers and it's not hard to find snowflake customers capital one disney micron alliance sainsbury sonos and hundreds of other companies i've talked to snowflake customers who have also been customers of oracle teradata ibm neteza vertica serious database practitioners and they tell me it's consistent soulflake is different they say it's simpler it's more agile it's less complicated to secure and it's disruptive to their traditional ways of doing data management now of course there are naysayers i've spoken to a number of analysts that feel snowflake is deficient in areas like workload management and course complex joins and it's too specialized in a world where we're seeing the convergence of analytics and transactional workloads our own david floyer believes that what oracle is doing with mysql heatwave is radically disruptive to many of the database architectures and blows away anything out there and he believes that snowflake and the likes of aws are going to have to respond now this the other criticism here is that snowflake is not architected for real-time inference where a lot of that edge activity is is going to happen it's a multi-hundred billion dollar market and so look snowflake has a ton of competition that's the other thing all the major cloud players have very capable and competitive database platforms even though they all partner with snowflake except oracle of course but companies like databricks and have garnered tons of vc other vc funded companies have raised billions of dollars to do this kind of elastic consumption based separate compute from storage stuff so you have to always keep an open mind and be aware of potential blind spots for these companies but to the criticisms i would say look snowflake they got there first and watch their ecosystem it's a real key to its continued success snowflake's not going to go it alone and it's going to use its ecosystem partners to expand its reach and accelerate the network effects and fill those gaps and it will acquire its stock is valuable so it should be doing that just as it did with streamlit a zero revenue company that it bought for 800 million dollars in stock and cash just recently streamlit is an open source python library that gets snowflake further deeper into that data science space that data brick space and look watch what snowflake is doing with snowpark it's an api library for processing data and building data intensive applications we've talked about snowflake essentially being becoming the super cloud and building this sort of path-like layer across clouds rather than trying to do it all themselves it seems snowflake is really staring at the api economy and building its ecosystem to plug those holes so let's come back to the customers here's a chart that shows snowflakes customer spending momentum or net score on the the top line that's the vertical axis and pervasiveness in the data or market share and that bottom brown line snowflake has unprecedented net scores and held them up for many many quarters as you can see here going back you know a couple years all leading to its expanded market penetration and measured as pervasiveness of so-called market share within the etr survey it's not like idc market share it's pervasiveness in the data set now i'll say this i don't see how this is sustainable i've been waiting for this to moderate i wouldn't be surprised to see snowflake come back to earth a little bit i think they'll clearly still be highly elevated based on the data that i've seen but but i could see in in one or more of the etr surveys this year this starting to moderate as they get they get big it's just it has to happen um but i would again expect them to have a high spending velocity score but i think we're going to see snowflake you know maybe porpoise a bit here meaning you know it moderates it comes back up it's just really hard to sustain this piece of momentum and higher train retain and scale without absorbing some some friction and some head woods that's going to slow you down but back to the aws growth example it's entirely possible that we could see a similar dynamic with snowflake that you saw with aws and you kind of see it with salesforce and servicenow very successful large entrenched entrenched companies and it's very possible that snowflake could pull back moderate and then accelerate that growth even though people are concerned about the moderated guidance of 80 percent growth yeah that's that's the new definition of tepid i guess i look i like to look at other some other metrics the one that really called you know my my my attention was the remaining performance obligations this last quarter rpo snowflakes is up to something like 2.6 billion and that is a forward-looking indicator of of future revenues so i want to i'd like to see that growing and it's growing at a fast pace so you're going to see some ups and downs with snowflake i have no doubt but i think things are still looking pretty solid for the company growth companies like snowflake and octa and z scalar those other ones that i mentioned earlier have probably been repriced and refactored by investors while there's always going to be market and of course geopolitical risk especially in these times fundamentals matter you've got huge market well capitalized you got a leadership position great products and strong customer adoption you also have a great team team is something else that we look for we haven't touched on that but i'll leave you with this thought everyone knows about frank slootman mike scarpelli and what they've accomplished in their years of working together that's why the stock you know in ipo was was so overvalued they had seen these guys do it before slootman just documented in all this in his book amp it up which gives great insight into the history of of that though you know that pair and and the teams that they've built the companies that they've built how he thinks about building companies and markets and and how you know total available markets super important but the whole philosophy and culture that that he's building in his management style but you got to wonder right how long is this guy going to keep going what keeps him motivated you know i asked him that one time here's what he said why i mean are you in this for the sport what's the story here uh actually that that's not a bad way of characterizing it i think i am in it uh you know for the sport uh you know the only way to become the best version of yourself is to be uh to be under the gun and uh you know every single day and that's that's certainly uh what we are it sort of has its own rewards building great products building great companies uh you know regardless of you know uh what the spoils may be uh it has its own rewards and i i it's hard for people like us to get off the field and uh you know hang it up so here we are so there you have it he's in it for the sport how great is that he loves building companies and that my opinion that's how frank slootman thinks about success it's not about money money's the byproduct of success as earl nightingale would say success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal i love that quote building great companies building products that change the world changing people's lives with data and insights creating jobs creating life-altering wealth opportunities not for himself but for thousands of employees and partners i'd say that's a pretty worthy ideal and i hope frank slootman sticks with it for a while okay that's it for today thanks to stephanie chan for the background research she does for breaking analysis alex meyerson on production kristen martin and cheryl knight on social with rob hoff on siliconangle and thanks to ivana delevska of spear invest and my friend chip symington for the angles from the money side of things remember all these episodes are available as podcasts just search breaking analysis podcast i publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey data you can reach me at devolante or david.velante siliconangle.com and this is dave vellante for cube insights powered by etrbsafe stay well and we'll see you next time [Music] you

>>Earlier this week, Oracle announced the new X nine M generation of exit data platforms for its cloud at customer and legacy on prem deployments. And the company made some enhancements to its zero data loss, recovery appliance. CLRA something we've covered quite often since its announcement. We had a video exclusive with one Louisa who was the executive vice president of mission critical database technologies. At Oracle. We did that on the day of the announcement who got his take on it. And I asked Oracle, Hey, can we get some subject matter experts, some technical gurus to dig deeper and get more details on the architecture because we want to better understand some of the performance claims that Oracle is making. And with me today is Susan. Who's the vice president of product management for exit data database machine. Bob tome is the vice president of product management for exit data cloud at customer. And Tim chin is the senior director of product management for DRA folks. Welcome to this power panel and welcome to the cube. >>Thank you, Dave. >>Can we start with you? Um, Juan and I, we talked about the X nine M a that Oracle just launched a couple of days ago. Maybe you could give us a recap, some of the, what do we need to know? The, especially I'm interested in the big numbers once more so we can just understand the claims you're making around this announcement. We can dig into that. >>Absolutely. They've very excited to do that. In a nutshell, we have the world's fastest database machine for both LTP and analytics, and we made that even faster, not just simply faster, but for all LPP we made it 70% faster and we took the oil PPV ops all the way up to 27.6 million read IOPS and mind you, this is being measured at the sequel layer for analytics. We did pretty much the same thing, an 87% increase in analytics. And we broke through that one terabyte per second barrier, absolutely phenomenal stuff. Now, while all those numbers by themselves are fascinating, here's something that's even more fascinating in my mind, 80% of the product development work for extra data, X nine M was done during COVID, which means all of us were remote. And what that meant was extreme levels of teamwork between the development teams, manufacturing teams, procurement teams, software teams, the works. I mean, everybody coming together as one to deliver this product, I think it's kudos to everybody who touched this product in one way or the other extremely proud of it. >>Thank you for making that point. And I'm laughing because it's like you the same bolt of a mission-critical OLT T O LTP performance. You had the world record, and now you're saying, adding on top of that. Um, but, okay. But, so there are customers that still, you know, build the builder and they're trying to build their own exit data. What they do is they buy their own servers and storage and networking components. And I do that when I talk to them, they'll say, look, they want to maintain their independence. They don't want to get locked in Oracle, or maybe they believe it's cheaper. You know, maybe they're sort of focused on the, the, the CapEx the CFO has him in the headlock, or they might, sometimes they talk about, they want a platform that can support, you know, horizontal, uh, apps, maybe not Oracle stuff, or, or maybe they're just trying to preserve their job. I don't know, but why shouldn't these customers roll their own and why can't they get similar results just using standard off the shelf technologies? >>Great question. It's going to require a little involved answer, but let's just look at the statistics to begin with. Oracle's exit data was first productized in Delaware to the market in 2008. And at that point in time itself, we had industry leadership across a number of metrics. Today, we are at the 11th generation of exit data, and we are way far ahead than the competition, like 50 X, faster hundred X faster, right? I mean, we are talking orders of magnitude faster. How did we achieve this? And I think the answer to your question is going to lie in what are we doing at the engineering level to make these magical numbers come to, uh, for right first, it starts with the hardware. Oracle has its own hardware server design team, where we are embedding in capabilities towards increasing performance, reliability, security, and scalability down at the hardware level, the database, which is a user level process talks to the hardware directly. >>The only reason we can do this is because we own the source code for pretty much everything in between, starting with the database, going into the operating system, the hypervisor. And as I, as I just mentioned the hardware, and then we also worked with the former elements on this entire thing, the key to making extra data, the best Oracle database machine lies in that engineering, where we take the operating system, make it fit like tongue and groove into, uh, a bit with the opera, with the hardware, and then do the same with the database. And because we have got this deep insight into what are the workloads that are, that are running at any given point in time on the compute side of extra data, we can then do micromanagement at the software layers of how traffic flows are flowing through the entire system and do things like, you know, prioritize all PP transactions on a very specific, uh, you know, queue on the RDMA. >>We'll converse Ethan at be able to do smart scan, use the compute elements in the storage tier to be able to offload SQL processing. They call them the longer I used formats of data, extend them into flash, just a whole bunch of things that we've been doing over the last 12 years, because we have this deep engineering, you can try to cobble a system together, which sort of looks like an extra data. It's got a network and it's got storage, tiering compute here, but you're not going to be able to achieve anything close to what we are doing. The biggest deal in my mind, apart from the performance and the high availability is the security, because we are testing the stack top to bottom. When you're trying to build your own best of breed kind of stuff. You're not going to be able to do that because it depended on the server that had to do something and HP to do something else or Dell to do something else and a Brocade switch to do something it's not possible. We can do this, we've done it. We've proven it. We've delivered it for over a decade. End of story. For as far as I'm concerned, >>I mean, you know, at this fine, remember when Oracle purchased Sohn and I know a big part of that purchase was to get Java, but I remember saying at the time it was a brilliant acquisition. I was looking at it from a financial standpoint. I think you paid seven and a half billion for it. And it automatically, when you're, when Safra was able to get back to sort of pre acquisition margins, you got the Oracle uplift in terms of revenue multiples. So then that standpoint, it was a no brainer, but the other thing is back in the Unix days, it was like HP. Oracle was the standard. And, and in terms of all the benchmarks and performance, but even then, I'm sure you work closely with HP, but it was like to get the stuff to work together, you know, make sure that it was going to be able to recover according to your standards, but you couldn't actually do that deep engineering that you just described now earlier, Subin you, you, you, you stated that the X sign now in M you get, oh, LTP IO, IOP reads at 27 million IOPS. Uh, you got 19 microseconds latency, so pretty impressive stuff, impressive numbers. And you kind of just went there. Um, but how are you measuring these numbers versus other performance claims from your competitors? What what's, you know, are you, are you stacking the deck? Can you give you share with us there? >>Sure. So Shada incidents, we are mentioning it at the sequel layer. This is not some kind of an ion meter or a micro benchmark. That's looking at just a flash subsystem or just a persistent memory subsystem. This is measured at the compute, not doing an entire set of transactions. And how many times can you finish that? Right? So that's how it's being measured. Now. Most people cannot measure it like that because of the disparity and the number of vendors that are involved in that particular solution, right? You've got servers from vendor a and storage from vendor B, the storage network from vendor C, the operating system from vendor D. How do you tune all of these things on your own? You cannot write. I mean, there's only certain bells and whistles and knobs that are available for you to tune, but so that's how we are measuring the 19 microseconds is at the sequel layer. >>What that means is this a real world customer running a real world. Workload is guaranteed to get that kind of a latency. None of the other suppliers can make that claim. This is the real world capability. Now let's take a look at that 19 microseconds we boast and we say, Hey, we had an order of magnitude two orders of magnitude faster than everybody else. When it comes down to latency. And one things that this is we'll do our magic while it is magical. The magic is really grounded in deep engineering and deep physics and science. The way we implement this is we, first of all, put the persistent memory tier in the storage. And that way it's shared across all of the database instances that are running on the compute tier. Then we have this ultra fast hundred gigabit ethernet RDMA over converged ethernet fabric. >>With this, what we have been able to do is at the hardware level between two network interface guides that are resident on that fabric, we create paths that enable high priority low-latency communication between any two end points on that fabric. And then given the fact that we implemented persistent memory in the storage tier, what that means is with that persistent memory, sitting on the memory bus of the processor in the storage tier, we can perform it remote direct memory access operation from the compute tier to memory address spaces in the persistent memory of the storage tier, without the involvement of the operating system on either end, no context, switches, knowing processing latencies and all of that. So it's hardware to hardware, communication with security built in, which is immutable, right? So all of this is built into the hardware itself. So there's no software involved. You perform a read, the data comes back 19 microseconds, boom. End of story. >>Yeah. So that's key to my next topic, which is security because if you're not getting the OSTP involved and that's, you know, very oftentimes if I can get access to the OSTP, I get privileged. Like I can really take advantage of that as a hacker. But so, but, but before I go there, like Oracle talks about, it's got a huge percentage of the Gayety 7% of the fortune 100 companies run their mission, critical workloads on exit data. But so that's not only important to the companies, but they're serving consumer me, right. I'm going to my ATM or I'm swiping my credit card. And Juan mentioned that you use a layered security model. I just sort of inferred anyway, that, that having this stuff in hardware and not have to involve access to the OS actually contributes to better security. But can you describe this in a bit more detail? >>So yeah, what Brian was talking about was this layered security set differently. It is defense in depth, and that's been our mantra and philosophy for several years now. So what does that entail? As I mentioned earlier, we designed our own servers. We do this for performance. We also do it for security. We've got a number of features that are built into the hardware that make sure that we've got immutable areas of form where we, for instance, let me give you this example. If you take an article x86 server, just a standard x86 server, not even express in the form of an extra data system, even if you had super user privileges sitting on top of an operating system, you cannot modify the bias as a user, as a super user that has to be done through the system management network. So we put gates and protection modes, et cetera, right in the hardware itself. >>Now, of course the security of that hardware goes all the way back to the fact that we own the design. We've got a global supply chain, but we are making sure that our supply chain is protected monitored. And, uh, we also protect the last mile of the supply chain, which is we can detect if there's been any tampering of form where that's been, uh, that's occurred in the hardware while the hardware shipped from our factory to the customers, uh, docks. Right? So we, we know that something's been tampered with the moment it comes back up on the customer. So that's on the hardware. Let's take a look at the operating system, Oracle Linux, we own article the next, the entire source code. And what shipping on exit data is the unbreakable enterprise Connell, the carnal and the operating system itself have been reduced in terms of eliminating all unnecessary packages from that operating system bundle. >>When we deliver it in the form of the data, let's put some real numbers on that. A standard Oracle Linux or a standard Linux distribution has got about 5,000 plus packages. These things include like print servers, web servers, a whole bunch of stuff that you're not absolutely going to use at all on exit data. Why ship those? Because the moment you ship more stuff than you need, you are increasing the, uh, the target, uh, that attackers can get to. So on AXA data, there are only 701 packages. So compare this 5,413 packages on a standard Linux, 701 and exit data. So we reduced the attack surface another aspect on this, when we, we do our own STIG, uh, ASCAP benchmarking. If you take a standard Linux and you run that ASCAP benchmark, you'll get about a 30% pass score on exit data. It's 90 plus percent. >>So which means we are doing the heavy lifting of doing the security checks on the operating system before it even goes out to the factory. And then you layer on Oracle database, transparent data encryption. We've got all kinds of protection capabilities, data reduction, being able to do an authentication on a user ID basis, being able to log it, being able to track it, being able to determine who access the system when and log back. So it's basically defend at every single layer. And then of course the customer's responsibility. It doesn't just stop by getting this high secure, uh, environment. They have to do their own job of them securing their network perimeters, securing who has physical access to the system and everything else. So it's a giant responsibility. And as you mentioned, you know, you as a consumer going to an ATM machine and withdrawing money, you would do 200. You don't want to see 5,000 deducted from your account. And so all of this is made possible with exited and the amount of security focus that we have on the system >>And the bank doesn't want to see it the other way. So I'm geeking out here in the cube, but I got one more question for you. Juan talked about X nine M best system for database consolidation. So I, I kinda, you know, it was built to handle all LTP analytics, et cetera. So I want to push you a little bit on this because I can make an argument that, that this is kind of a Swiss army knife versus the best screwdriver or the best knife. How do you respond to that concern and how, how do you respond to the concern that you're putting too many eggs in one basket? Like, what do you tell people to fear you're consolidating workloads to save money, but you're also narrowing the blast radius. Isn't that a problem? >>Very good question there. So, yes. So this is an interesting problem, and it is a balancing act. As you correctly pointed out, you want to have the economies of scale that you get when you consolidate more and more databases, but at the same time, when something happens when hardware fails or there's an attack, you want to make sure that you have business continuity. So what we are doing on exit data, first of all, as I mentioned, we are designing our own hardware and a building in reliability into the system and at the hardware layer, that means having redundancy, redundancy for fans, power supplies. We even have the ability to isolate faulty cores on the processor. And we've got this a tremendous amount of sweeping that's going on by the system management stack, looking for problem areas and trying to contain them as much as possible within the hardware itself. >>Then you take it up to the software layer. We used our reliability to then build high availability. What that implies is, and that's fundamental to the exited architecture is this entire scale out model, our based system, you cannot go smaller than having two database nodes and three storage cells. Why is that? That's because you want to have high availability of your database instances. So if something happens to one server hardware, software, whatever you got another server that's ready to take on that load. And then with real application clusters, you can then switch over between these two, why three storage cells. We want to make sure that when you have got duplicate copies of data, because you at least want to have one additional copy of your data in case something happens to the disc that has got that only that one copy, right? So the reason we have got three is because then you can Stripe data across these three different servers and deliver high availability. >>Now you take that up to the rack level. A lot of things happen. Now, when you're really talking about the blast radius, you want to make sure that if something physically happens to this data center, that you have infrastructure that's available for it to function for business continuity, we maintain, which is why we have the maximum availability architecture. So with components like golden gate and active data guard, and other ways by which we can keep to this distant systems in sync is extremely critical for us to deliver these high availability paths that make, uh, the whole equation about how many eggs in one basket versus containing the containment of the blast radius. A lot easier to grapple with because business continuity is something which is paramount to us. I mean, Oracle, the enterprise is running on Xcel data. Our high value cloud customers are running on extra data. And I'm sure Bob's going to talk a lot more about the cloud piece of it. So I think we have all the tools in place to, to go after that optimization on how many eggs in one basket was his blast radius. It's a question of working through the solution and the criticalities of that particular instance. >>Okay, great. Thank you for that detailed soup. We're going to give you a break. You go take a breath, get a, get a drink of water. Maybe we'll come back to you. If we have time, let's go to Bob, Bob, Bob tome, X data cloud at customer X nine M earlier this week, Juan said kinda, kinda cocky. What we're bothering, comparing exit data against your cloud, a customer against outpost or Azure stack. Can you elaborate on, on why that is? >>Sure. Or you, you know, first of all, I want to say, I love, I love baby. We go south posts. You know why it affirms everything that we've been doing for the past four and a half years with clouded customer. It affirms that cloud is running that running cloud services in customers' data center is a large and important market, large and important enough that AWS felt that the need provide these, um, you know, these customers with an AWS option, even if it only supports a sliver of the functionality that they provide in the public cloud. And that's what they're doing. They're giving it a sliver and they're not exactly leading with the best they could offer. So for that reason, you know, that reason alone, there's really nothing to compare. And so we, we give them the benefit of the doubt and we actually are using their public cloud solutions. >>Another point most customers are looking to deploy to Oracle cloud, a customer they're looking for a per performance, scalable, secure, and highly available platform to deploy. What's offered their most critical databases. Most often they are Oracle databases does outposts for an Oracle database. No. Does outpost run a comparable database? Not really does outposts run Amazon's top OTP and analytics database services, the ones that are top in their cloud public cloud. No, that we couldn't find anything that runs outposts that's worth comparing against X data clouded customer, which is why the comparisons are against their public cloud products. And even with that still we're looking at numbers like 50 times a hundred times slower, right? So then there's the Azure stack. One of the key benefits to, um, you know, that customers love about the cloud that I think is really under, appreciated it under appreciated is really that it's a single vendor solution, right? You have a problem with cloud service could be I as pass SAS doesn't matter. And there's a single vendor responsible for fixing your issue as your stack is missing big here, because they're a multi-vendor cloud solution like AWS outposts. Also, they don't exactly offer the same services in the cloud that they offer on prem. And from what I hear, it can be a management nightmare requiring specialized administrators to keep that beast running. >>Okay. So, well, thanks for that. I'll I'll grant you that, first of all, granted that Oracle was the first with that same, same vision. I always tell people that, you know, if they say, well, we were first I'm like, well, actually, no, Oracle's first having said that, Bob and I hear you that, that right now, outpost is a one Datto version. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but neither did your cloud when you first launched your cloud. So let's, let's let it bake for a while and we'll come back in a couple of years and see how things compare. So if you're up for it. Yeah. >>Just remember that we're still in the oven too. Right. >>Okay. All right. Good. I love it. I love the, the chutzpah. One also talked about Deutsche bank. Um, and that, I, I mean, I saw that Deutsche bank announcement, how they're working with Oracle, they're modernizing their infrastructure around database. They're building other services around that and kind of building their own sort of version of a cloud for their customers. How does exit data cloud a customer fit in to that whole Deutsche bank deal? Is, is this solution unique to Deutsche bank? Do you see other organizations adopting clouded customer for similar reasons and use cases? >>Yeah, I'll start with that. First. I want to say that I don't think Georgia bank is unique. They want what all customers want. They want to be able to run their most important workloads. The ones today running their data center on exit eight as a non other high-end systems in a cloud environment where they can benefit from things like cloud economics, cloud operations, cloud automations, but they can't move to public cloud. They need to maintain the service levels, the performance, the scalability of the security and the availability that their business has. It has come to depend on most clouds can't provide that. Although actually Oracle's cloud can our public cloud Ken, because our public cloud does run exit data, but still even with that, they can't do it because as a bank, they're subject to lots of rules and regulations, they cannot move their 40 petabytes of data to a point outside the control of their data center. >>They have thousands of interconnected databases, right? And applications. It's like a rat's nest, right? And this is similar many large customers have this problem. How do you move that to the cloud? You can move it piecemeal. Uh, I'm going to move these apps and, you know, not move those apps. Um, but suddenly ended up with these things where some pieces are up here. Some pieces are down here. The thing just dies because of the long latency over a land connection, it just doesn't work. Right. So you can also shut it down. Let's shut it down on, on Friday and move everything all at once. Unfortunately, when you're looking at it, a state decides that most customers have, you're not going to be able to, you're going to be down for a month, right? Who can, who can tolerate that? So it's a big challenge and exited cloud a customer let's then move to the cloud without losing control of their data. >>And without unhappy having to untangle that thousands of interconnected databases. So, you know, that's why these customers are choosing X data, clouded customer. More importantly, it sets them up for the future with exited cloud at customer, they can run not just in their data center, but they could also run in public cloud, adjacent sites, giving them a path to moving some work out of the data center and ultimately into the public cloud. You know, as I said, they're not unique. Other banks are watching and some are acting and it's not just banks. Just last week. Telefonica telco in Spain announced their intent to migrate the bulk of their Oracle databases to excavate a cloud at customer. This will be the key cloud platform running. They're running in their data center to support both new services, as well as mission critical and operational systems. And one last important point exited cloud a customer can also run autonomous database. Even if customers aren't today ready to adopt this. A lot of them are interested in it. They see it as a key piece of the puzzle moving forward in the future and customers know that they can easily start to migrate to autonomous in the future as they're ready. And this of course is going to drive additional efficiencies and additional cost savings. >>So, Bob, I got a question for you because you know, Oracle's playing both sides, right? You've got a cloud, you know, you've got a true public cloud now. And, and obviously you have a huge on-premise state. When I talk to companies that don't own a cloud, uh, whether it's Dell or HPE, Cisco, et cetera, they have made, they make the point. And I agree with them by the way that the world is hybrid, not everything's going into the, to the cloud. However, I had a lot of respect for folks at Amazon as well. And they believed long-term, they'll say this, they've got them on record of saying this, that they believe long-term ultimately all workloads are going to be running in the cloud. Now, I guess it depends on how you define the cloud. The cloud is expanding and all that other stuff. But my question to you, because again, you kind of on both sides, here are our hybrid solutions like cloud at customer. Do you see them as a stepping stone to the cloud, or is cloud in your data center, sort of a continuous sort of permanent, you know, essential play >>That. That's a great question. As I recall, people debated this a few years back when we first introduced clouded customer. And at that point, some people I'm talking about even internal Oracle, right? Some people saw this as a stop gap measure to let people leverage cloud benefits until they're really ready for the public cloud. But I think over the past four and a half years, the changing the thinking has changed a little bit on this. And everyone kind of agrees that clouded customer may be a stepping stone for some customers, but others see that as the end game, right? Not every workload can run in the public cloud, not at least not given the, um, you know, today's regulations and the issues that are faced by many of these regulated industries. These industries move very, very slowly and customers are content to, and in many cases required to retain complete control of their data and they will be running under their control. They'll be running with that data under their control and the data center for the foreseeable future. >>Oh, I got another question for kind of just, if I could take a little tangent, cause the other thing I hear from the, on the, the, the on-prem don't own, the cloud folks is it's actually cheaper to run in on-prem, uh, because they're getting better at automation, et cetera. When you get the exact opposite from the cloud guys, they roll their eyes. Are you kidding me? It's way cheaper to run it in the cloud, which is more cost-effective is it one of those? It depends, Bob. >>Um, you know, the great thing about numbers is you can make, you can, you can kind of twist them to show anything that you want, right? That's a have spreadsheet. Can I, can, I can sell you on anything? Um, I think that there's, there's customers who look at it and they say, oh, on-premise sheet is cheaper. And there's customers who look at it and say, the cloud is cheaper. If you, um, you know, there's a lot of ways that you may incur savings in the cloud. A lot of it has to do with the cloud economics, the ability to pay for what you're using and only what you're using. If you were to kind of, you know, if you, if you size something for your peak workload and then, you know, on prem, you probably put a little bit of a buffer in it, right? >>If you size everything for that, you're gonna find that you're paying, you know, this much, right? All the time you're paying for peak workload all the time with the cloud, of course, we support scaling up, scaling down. We supply, we support you're paying for what you use and you can scale up and scale down. That's where the big savings is now. There's also additional savings associated with you. Don't have the cloud vendors like work. Well, we manage that infrastructure for you. You no longer have to worry about it. Um, we have a lot of automation, things that you use to either, you know, probably what used to happen is you used to have to spend hours and hours or years or whatever, scripting these things yourselves. We now have this automation to do it. We have, um, you eyes that make things ad hoc things, as simple as point and click and, uh, you know, that eliminates errors. And, and it's often difficult to put a cost on those things. And I think the more enlightened customers can put a cost on all of those. So the people that were saying it's cheaper to run on prem, uh, they, they either, you know, have a very stable workload that never changes and their environment never changes, um, or more likely. They just really haven't thought through the, all the hidden costs out there. >>All right, you got some new features. Thank you for that. By the way, you got some new features in, in cloud, a customer, a what are those? Do I have to upgrade to X nine M to, to get >>All right. So, you know, we're always introducing new features for clouded customer, but two significant things that we've rolled out recently are operator access control and elastic storage expansion. As we discussed, many organizations are using Axeda cloud a customer they're attracting the cloud economics, the operational benefits, but they're required by regulations to retain control and visibility of their data, as well as any infrastructure that sits inside their data center with operator access control, enabled cloud operations, staff members must request access to a customer system, a customer, it team grants, a designated person, specific access to a specific component for a specific period of time with specific privileges, they can then kind of view audit controls in real time. And if they see something they don't like, you know, Hey, what's this guy doing? It looks like he's, he's stealing my data or doing something I don't like, boom. >>They can kill that operators, access the session, the connections, everything right away. And this gives everyone, especially customers that need to, you know, regulate remote access to their infrastructure. It gives them the confidence that they need to use exit data cloud, uh, conduct, customer service. And, and the other thing that's new is, um, elastic storage expansion. Customers could out add additional service to their system either at initial deployment or after the fact. And this really provides two important benefits. The first is that they can right size their configuration if they need only the minimum compute capacity, but they don't need the maximum number of storage servers to get that capacity. They don't need to subscribe to kind of a fixed shape. We used to have fixed shapes, I guess, with hundreds of unnecessary database cores, just to get the storage capacity, they can select a smaller system. >>And then incrementally add on that storage. The second benefit is the, is kind of key for many customers. You are at a storage, guess what you can add more. And that way, when you're out of storage, that's really important. Now they'll get to your last part of that question. Do you need a deck, a new, uh, exit aquatic customer XIM system to get these features? No they're available for all gen two exited clouded customer systems. That's really one of the best things about cloud. The service you subscribed to today just keeps getting better and better. And unless there's some technical limitation that, you know, we, and it, which is rare, most new features are available even for the oldest cloud customer systems. >>Cool. And you can bring that in on from my, my last question for you, Bob is a, another one on security. Obviously, again, we talked to Susan about this. It's a big deal. How can customer data be secure if it's in the cloud, if somebody, other than the, their own vetted employees are managing the underlying infrastructure, is is that a concern you hear a lot and how do you handle that? >>You know, it's, it's only something because a lot of these customers, they have big, you know, security people and it's their job to be concerned about that kind of stuff. And security. However, is one of the biggest, but least appreciate appreciated benefits of cloud cloud vendors, such as Oracle hire the best and brightest security experts to ensure that their clouds are secure. Something that only the largest customers can afford to do. You're a small, small shop. You're not going to be able to, you know, hire some of this expertise. So you're better off being in the cloud. Customers who are running in the Oracle cloud can also use articles, data, safe tool, which we provide, which basically lets you inspect your databases, insurance. Sure that everything is locked down and secure and your data is secure. But your question is actually a little bit different. >>It was about potential internal threats to company's data. Given the cloud vendor, not the customer's employees have access to the infrastructure that sits beneath the databases and really the first and most important thing we do to protect customers' data is we encrypt that database by default. Actually Subin listed a whole laundry list of things, but that's the one thing I want to point out. We encrypt your database. It's, you know, it's, it's encrypted. Yes. It sits on our infrastructure. Yes. Our operations persons can actually see those data files sitting on the infrastructure, but guess what? They can't see the data. The data is encrypted. All they see as kind of a big encrypted blob. Um, so they can't access the data themselves. And you know, as you'd expect, we have very tight controls over operations access to the infrastructure. They need to securely log in using mechanisms by stuff to present, prevent unauthorized access. >>And then all access is logged and suspicious. Activities are investigated, but that still may not be enough for some customers, especially the ones I mentioned earlier, the regulated industries. And that's why we offer app operator access control. As I mentioned, that gives customers complete control over the access to the infrastructure. The, when the, what ops can do, how long can they do it? Customers can monitor in real time. And if they see something they don't like they stop it immediately. Lastly, I just want to mention Oracle's data ball feature. This prevents administrators from accessing data, protecting data from road operators, robot, world operations, whether they be from Oracle or from the customer's own it staff, this database option. A lot of ball is sorry. Database ball data vault is included when running a license included service on exited clouded customer. So basically to get it with the service. Got it. >>Hi Tom. Thank you so much. It's unbelievable, Bob. I mean, we've got a lot to unpack there, but uh, we're going to give you a break now and go to Tim, Tim chin, zero data loss, recovery appliance. We always love that name. The big guy we think named it, but nobody will tell us, but we've been talking about security. There's been a lot of news around ransomware attacks. Every industry around the globe, any knucklehead with, uh, with a high school diploma could become a ransomware attack or go in the dark web, get, get ransomware as a service stick, a, put a stick in and take a piece of the VIG and hopefully get arrested. Um, with, when you think about database, how do you deal with the ransomware challenge? >>Yeah, Dave, um, that's an extremely important and timely question. Um, we are hearing this from our customers. We just talk about ha and backup strategies and ransomware, um, has been coming up more and more. Um, and the unfortunate thing that these ransoms are actually paid, um, uh, in the hope of the re you know, the, uh, the ability to access the data again. So what that means it tells me is that today's recovery solutions and processes are not sufficient to get these systems back in a reliable and timely manner. Um, and so you have to pay the ransom, right, to get, uh, to get the, even a hope of getting the data back now for databases. This can have a huge impact because we're talking about transactional workloads. And so even a compromise of just a few minutes, a blip, um, can affect hundreds or even thousands of transactions. This can literally represent hundreds of lost orders, right? If you're a big manufacturing company or even like millions of dollars worth of, uh, financial transactions in a bank. Right. Um, and that's why protecting databases at a transaction level is especially critical, um, for ransomware. And that's a huge contrast to traditional backup approaches. Okay. >>So how do you approach that? What do you, what do you do specifically for ransomware protection for the database? >>Yeah, so we have the zero data loss recovery appliance, which we announced the X nine M generation. Um, it is really the only solution in the market, which offers that transaction level of protection, which allows all transactions to be recovered with zero RPO, zero again, and this is only possible because Oracle has very innovative and unique technology called real-time redo, which captures all the transactional changes from the databases by the appliance, and then stored as well by the appliance, moreover, the appliance validates all these backups and reading. So you want to make sure that you can recover them after you've sent them, right? So it's not just a file level integrity check on a file system. That's actual database level of validation that the Oracle blocks and the redo that I mentioned can be restored and recovered as a usable database, any kind of, um, malicious attack or modification of that backup data and transmit that, or if it's even stored on the appliance and it was compromised would be immediately detected and reported by that validation. >>So this allows administrators to take action. This is removing that system from the network. And so it's a huge leap in terms of what customers can get today. The last thing I just want to point out is we call our cyber vault deployment, right? Um, a lot of customers in the industry are creating what we call air gapped environments, where they have a separate location where their backup copies are stored physically network separated from the production systems. And so this prevents ransomware for possibly infiltrating that last good copy of backups. So you can deploy recovery appliance in a cyber vault and have it synchronized at random times when the network's available, uh, to, to keep it in sync. Right. Um, so that combined with our transaction level zero data loss validation, it's a nice package and really a game changer in protecting and recovering your databases from modern day cyber threats. >>Okay, great. Thank you for clarifying that air gap piece. Cause I, there was some confusion about that. Every data protection and backup company that I know as a ransomware solution, it's like the hottest topic going, you got newer players in, in, in recovery and backup like rubric Cohesity. They raised a ton of dough. Dell has got solutions, HPE just acquired Zerto to deal with this problem. And other things IBM has got stuff. Veem seems to be doing pretty well. Veritas got a range of, of recovery solutions. They're sort of all out there. What's your take on these and their strategy and how do you differentiate? >>Yeah, it's a pretty crowded market, like you said. Um, I think the first thing you really have to keep in mind and understand that these vendors, these new and up and coming, um, uh, uh, vendors start in the copy data management, we call CDN space and they're not traditional backup recovery designed are purpose built for the purpose of CDM products is to provide these fast point in time copies for test dev non-production use, and that's a viable problem and it needs a solution. So you create these one time copy and then you create snapshots. Um, after you apply these incremental changes to that copy, and then the snapshot can be quickly restored and presented as like it's a fully populated, uh, file. And this is all done through the underlying storage of block pointers. So all of this kind of sounds really cool and modern, right? It's like new and upcoming and lots of people in the market doing this. Well, it's really not that modern because we've, we know storage, snapshot technologies has been around for years. Right. Um, what these new vendors have been doing is essentially repackaging the old technology for backup and recovery use cases and having sort of an easier to use automation interface wrapped around it. >>Yeah. So you mentioned a copy data management, uh, last year, active FIO. Uh, they started that whole space from what I recall at one point there, they value more than a billion dollars. They were acquired by Google. Uh, and as I say, they kind of created that, that category. So fast forward a little bit, nine months a year, whatever it's been, do you see that Google active FIO offer in, in, in customer engagements? Is that something that you run into? >>We really don't. Um, yeah, it was really popular and known some years ago, but we really don't hear about it anymore. Um, after the acquisition, you look at all the collateral and the marketing, they are really a CDM and backup solution exclusively for Google cloud use cases. And they're not being positioned as for on premises or any other use cases outside of Google cloud. That's what, 90, 90 plus percent of your market there that isn't addressable now by Activia. So really we don't see them in any of our engagements at this time. >>I want to come back and push it a little bit, uh, on some of the tech that you said, it's kind of really not that modern. Uh, I mean it's, if they certainly position it as modern, a lot of the engineers who are building there's new sort of backup and recovery capabilities came from the hyperscalers, whether it's copy data management, you know, the bot mock quote, unquote modern backup recovery, it's kind of a data management, sort of this nice all in one solution seems pretty compelling. How does recovery clients specifically stack up? You know, a lot of people think it's a niche product for, for really high end use cases. Is that fair? How do you see a town? >>Yeah. Yeah. So it's, I think it's so important to just, you know, understand, again, the fundamental use of this technology is to create data copies for test W's right. Um, and that's really different than operational backup recovery in which you must have this ability to do full and point in time recoverability in any production outage or Dr. Situation. Um, and then more importantly, after you recover and your applications are back in business, that performance must continue to meet servers levels as before. And when you look at a CDM product, um, and you restore a snapshot and you say with that product and the application is brought up on that restored snapshot, what happens or your production application is now running on actual read rideable snapshots on backup storage. Remember they don't restore all the data back to the production, uh, level stores. They're restoring it as a snapshot okay. >>Onto their storage. And so you have a huge difference in performance. Now running these applications where they instantly recovered, if you will database. So to meet these true operational requirements, you have to fully restore the files to production storage period. And so recovery appliance was first and foremost designed to accomplish this. It's an operational recovery solution, right? We accomplish that. Like I mentioned, with this real-time transaction protection, we have incremental forever backup strategies. So that you're just taking just the changes every day. And you, you can create these virtual full backups that are quickly restored, fully restored, if you will, at 24 terabytes an hour. And we validate and document that performance very clearly in our website. And of course we provide that continuous recovery validation for all the backups that are stored on the system. So it's, um, it's a very nice, complete solution. >>It scales to meet your demands, hundreds of thousands of databases, you know, it's, um, you know, these CDM products might seem great and they work well for a few databases, but then you put a real enterprise load and these hundreds of databases, and we've seen a lot of times where it just buckles, you know, it can't handle that kind of load in that, uh, in that scale. Uh, and, and this is important because customers read their marketing and read the collateral like, Hey, instant recovery. Why wouldn't I want that? Well, it's, you know, nicer than it looks, you know, it always sounds better. Right. Um, and so we have to educate them and about exactly what that means for the database, especially backup recovery use cases. And they're not really handled well, um, with their products. >>I know I'm like way over. I had a lot of questions on this announcement and I was gonna, I was gonna let you go, Tim, but you just mentioned something that, that gave me one more question if I may. So you talked about, uh, supporting hundreds of thousands of databases. You petabytes, you have real world use cases that, that actually leverage the, the appliance in these types of environments. Where does it really shine? >>Yeah. Let me just give you just two real quick ones. You know, we have a company energy transfer, the major natural gas and pipeline operator in the U S so they are a big part of our country's critical infrastructure services. We know ransomware, and these kinds of threats are, you know, are very much viable. We saw the colonial pipeline incident that happened, right? And so the attack, right, critical services while energy transfer was running, lots of databases and their legacy backup environments just couldn't keep up with their enterprise needs. They had backups taking like, well, over a day, they had restores taking several hours. Um, and so they had problems and they couldn't meet their SLS. They moved to the recovery appliance and now they're seeing backwards complete with that incremental forever in just 15 minutes. So that's like a 48 times improvement in backup time. >>And they're also seeing restores completing in about 30 minutes, right. Versus several hours. So it's a, it's a huge difference for them. And they also get that nice recovery validation and monitoring by the system. They know the health of their enterprise at their fingertips. The second quick one is just a global financial services customer. Um, and they have like over 10,000 databases globally and they, they really couldn't find a solution other than throw more hardware kind of approach to, uh, to fix their backups. Well, this, uh, not that the failures and not as the issues. So they moved to recovery appliance and they saw their failed backup rates go down for Matta plea. They saw four times better backup and restore performance. Um, and they have also a very nice centralized way to monitor and manage the system. Uh, real-time view if you will, that data protection health for their entire environment. Uh, and they can show this to the executive management and auditing teams. This is great for compliance reporting. Um, and so they finally done that. They have north of 50 plus, um, recovery appliances a day across that on global enterprise. >>Love it. Thank you for that. Um, uh, guys, great power panel. We have a lot of Oracle customers in our community and the best way to, to help them is to, I get to ask you a bunch of questions and get the experts to answer. So I wonder if you could bring us home, maybe you could just sort of give us the, the top takeaways that you want to your customers to remember in our audience to remember from this announcement. >>Sure, sorry. Uh, I want to actually pick up from where Tim left off and talk about a real customer use case. This is hot off the press. One of the largest banks in the United States, they decided to, that they needed to update. So performance software update on 3000 of their database instances, which are spanning 68, exited a clusters, massive undertaking, correct. They finished the entire task in three hours, three hours to update 3000 databases and 68 exited a clusters. Talk about availability, try doing this on any other infrastructure, no way anyone's going to be able to achieve this. So that's on terms of the availability, right? We are engineering in all of the aspects of database management, performance, security availability, being able to provide redundancy at every single level is all part of the design philosophy and how we are engineering this product. And as far as we are concerned, the, the goal is for forever. >>We are just going to continue to go down this path of increasing performance, increasing the security aspect of the, uh, of the infrastructure, as well as our Oracle database and keep going on this. You know, this, while these have been great results that we've delivered with extra data X nine M the, the journey is on and to our customers. The biggest advantage that you're going to get from the kind of performance metrics that we are driving with extra data is consolidation consolidate more, move, more database instances onto the extended platform, gain the benefits from that consolidation, reduce your operational expenses, reduce your capital expenses. They use your management expenses, all of those, bring it down to accelerator. Your total cost of ownership is guaranteed to go down. Those are my key takeaways, Dave >>Guys, you've been really generous with your time. Uh Subin uh, uh, uh, Bob, Tim, I appreciate you taking my questions and we'll willingness to go toe to toe, really? Thanks for your time. >>You're welcome, David. Thank you. Thank you. >>And thank you for watching this video exclusive from the cube. This is Dave Volante, and we'll see you next time. Be well.

>> Narrator: From theCube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCube conversation. >> Hi everybody. Welcome to theCUBE, this is Dave Vellante, and we're here to talk about a very important topic around de-risking infrastructure with business continuity. This is critical, especially in the era of COVID. And with me, to really explore this issue is Dr. Rico, who's the vice president office of the CTO at INFINIDAT Doc. Good to see you. >> Good to see you again, Dave. >> And Ken Steinhardt, is also here as a field CTO at INFINIDAT and I got to tell the audience, Doc, you're also the chairman of the Mass Motorcycles Association. You're a very cool guy. You're a pilot, you're a firearms instructor, all about safety, and Ken and Doc you're both musicians, right? Doc, I think he played the drums, and Ken, I know when we first met, you're a music guy, so wow. Surrounded by talent so, thank you so much for coming on. >> Glad to be here. Great to see you. >> For the other thing too is that you guys are long time storage industry experts. I've known you both for many, many years. INFINIDAT deep engineering expertise of course, everybody knows about Moshay, he created the most successful product in the history of the storage industry. And we're going to talk about the importance of data, especially in this era of COVID, and how mission criticality has really become more and more important. So, I want to start Doc with you and this notion of business continuity. How are you thinking about, and INFINIDAT thinking about business continuity in this isolation era? >> Well, that's a really great question Dave, because it has changed quite a bit. And as you said, we've known each other a long time, all the way back to when I still had hair, that was how long ago it was. But, business continuity is something that every business constantly looks at throughout their evolution. And it's one of these things where certain applications are typically more mission critical than others. And lately, what we've seen is this genre of a lights out data center that has become absolutely critical operating a business today. People can't just be on site anymore. People need to be working remotely, and that includes data center personnel and in many respects. So, this whole concept of business continuity now encompasses not only the operation equipment that's on premises, or sometimes even off premises, but it also encompasses applications that people need access to that they may not have thought of mission critical before, because working from home was a convenience or working remotely was a convenience, not a requirement for that business. >> You, Ken, I know you talked to a lot of CIOs. I was sitting at a CIO round table with my friends down at ETR recently, and one of the CIO said, when COVID hit, we realized that our business quote unquote business continuity plans were just way too narrowly focused on DR. What do you see from the IT community? >> It's funny because I literally was on a CIO round table with the West Coast this morning. And there were a couple of interesting comments that really stuck out to me from some of the people there. One was commenting of just reaffirming, what Doc said, how much people are working from home now. They said, traditionally they'd had traditional offices and they've just recently hired in this company about 250 people. He said, all of them are going to be remote workers and their normal from here on out, for the next 150 they're looking to hire is just that business as usual will be remote work. And one of the other CIOs chimed in with a quote that really stuck out to me. He said, "Remote work requires always on infrastructure in this day and age." And it's just a whole new way of having to make sure that businesses are operational and their workers can do what they're supposed to do. >> Well, so let's stay on that. I mean, ransomware's on everybody's mind. I mean, all you have to do is look at the stock market, you see, what's happened with Zoom, it's exploded. All the end point securities, identity access management security companies are going crazy, because (chuckles) people are now so vulnerable. So, they're more exposed to ransomware, Ken, what do we really need to know about ransomware? First, the smart company, smart organization is the one that is prepared and assumes the worst. Which means don't think it can't happen to you, especially when you look at a couple of the more public examples in the last couple of years in particular. So, it means you must take steps to protect yourself, particularly for the sake of your company, your business, your employees, your shareholders, your customers, everyone else. And that means deploying technology that assumes that if the worst case scenario could happen to you, how do you make sure that you have taken the steps that you can avoid the worst possible scenarios that could happen? >> Well, you know, Doc, lot of times when you have this discussion on ransomware, people say, well, should I pay the ransom? And sometimes people say, well, yeah, maybe it should go. You hope you never get there, right? (chuckles) >> Right, you absolutely hope you never get there. There is such horrible examples of paying ransom that just don't work. Just look at the Somalia pirates as an example, right? It doesn't stop them at all, but, take a look at what the potential impact is, not the potential impact to your business and your employees, but the potential impact to society. A couple of years ago with Sony, was very notorious case. More recently, a couple of months ago, Garmin. As you mentioned, I'm a pilot, but I was very worried as what reservoir, a lot of people in the aircraft and in aviation industry. What's going to happen not only with our private information, the account information, but what's going to happen with avionics updates? If Garmin didn't have a fallback plan, a way to recover, then what was going to happen? And I'm sure they were going through the process and the thoughts of, should we pay this year? How else do we get out of this? But, fortunately they had a very good plan in place and it only took them a couple of days to restore back to normal operations. Arguably as far as avionics goes, they were lucky in the sense that this happened to them right in the middle of an update cycle, which is 28 day cycle. But the fact that it only took them a couple of days, congratulations to them. I'm sure that with even better plans and a little bit of extra effort, it could have been a matter of hours instead of days. >> Well, let's come back to business continuity. Ken, do you feel as though businesses are not prepared based on the conversation we were having earlier? >> Some are, some aren't. It will be getting into that, I think in a little bit more detail as well, but historically, organizations I think have focused far too much just on traditional disaster recovery, usually with things like some of the technologies that have been around a long while like backup, and onto often having focused towards the technologies that really do keep the business running without human intervention if something were to ever go wrong. >> So, Doc, anything you'd add to that? I mean, what's the state of business continuity from your perspective? Are people having to really starting to accelerate a journey because of this COVID? >> I absolutely think they're accelerating a journey. They're also looking now at, this concept of multiple active sites. The concept of active sites is not something new, it's something that dates back a couple of decades and a lot of the financial industry. When they were struck, they were looking at some very significant changes in their operational paradigm because they realized that the system is going down and is only a small percentage of the problem that people impact is far worse. The operational procedures, the human intervention. So, what they would do is typically build out multiple sites and rotate the applications between them. What they really haven't done yet, at least not on a broad scale and certainly not in the U.S and some cases in Europe, they started this journey, having applications running simultaneously in multiple sites accessing the same data sets. It's not a brand new concept, but it's something that has improved significantly. The technologies have improved significantly over the course of the past decade. And with the introduction of our active backend solution, a couple of years ago, even brought it to an entirely new level. >> The people aspect that Doc mentioned is so critical. And that's certainly been one of the key lessons learned when real disasters have occurred is that the systems have to be, if you really want to keep your business operating making an assumption that people are going to have depending upon the nature of the disaster. Very different priorities and one of them is not, Gee, do I keep these ITs systems running or not? They're going to be worried about their co-workers, their families, other things, et cetera. So, the ultimate has to be systems that are capable of continuing the operation of the business in the face of a site failure, a metropolitan area failure or whatever it takes without the requirement necessarily for human intervention. >> So, I want to get into active-active. But before we do, I wonder if we could do a little sort of data protection one on one, a back up, a replication, you got snapshots, Doc, what do we need to know about each in the context of this discussion? >> I think the important thing to look at when you think about the different types of technologies and say you apply the solutions is that some of them apply to specific equipment failures, and some of them apply to data failure. And I separate equipment from data in the sense that data can be corrupted in some shape or form. It can be through malicious attack, like ransomware as an example, only one example, other types of malware can play a factor as well, or it can be incidental. Somebody pressing the wrong button, it can be an operational procedure, perhaps another system failure that causes a change in the data or corruption in the data that makes it essentially unusable. So, whenever we're looking at this, we have to start with what is the recovery point objective. The RPO that's where most people start with. And in the RPO, in essence, if you think of time zero, right now, it's where the failure occurs. Walk backwards. How far back can I go and still sustain my business? Now, there may be other procedural things you can do to catch up as close to that RPO and zero as you can, but each of these technologies that we're talking about give you a different RPOs, like rewinding a tape back to a point in time. So, that's the first place to start. >> Okay. So, let's bring up that slide actually. I actually liked this as the fireball slide I call it, but this is how people measure sort of the business impact, if you will, RPO and RTO. And what I like about this is in this digital world, it's kind of a cliche, but everything's getting more intense. People want, they don't want to lose data when you ask a customer, how much data are you willing to lose? They say none. >> None. >> And you say, well, how much are you willing to pay? So, Ken, I wonder if you could sort of describe that tension and that dynamic that's really underscored in this slide. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah, you hit it on the head David. It's the traditional trade off between RPO, RTO and cost. As Doc described with RPO, the objective would be to get as close to zero data loss as you could possibly get, with RTO which measures the time associated with how long will it take you to get back to your acceptable level of RPO. That is a time factor where for every minute or second, that goes by that you're not in business, that's the extension of the RTO. And historically, the closer you get as you approach zero RPO and zero RTO, usually the greater the cost goes up. And it's always been the eternal trade off, is a great analogy. It's sort of like if you want to buy a car. RPO equates for the quality of the solution, RTO is time or speed and cost is cost. If you buy a car, if it's good and it's fast, it won't be cheap. If it's good, and it's cheap, it won't be fast. And if it's fast, and it's cheap, it won't be good. So, usually that's the kind of tradeoff we will have to deal with there. And, the factors that will impact that, as Doc alluded to can be many. There's many aspects that you have to consider in terms of what is the service level that the business requires, and do we have solutions in place that can actually give us what is the real service level of the business requires if something were to go bad. >> Because, customers have gone through, unnatural acts, and Doc before you were kind of describing what some people would refer to as, as a three site, data centers and all kinds of things that people will do, but that brings us to active-active, Doc, what is active-active? >> Yeah, let me interject a point there, and then I'll get to your question about active-active. First is the question I can raise about service level, that's absolutely critical. And business may have different service levels for different applications. >> Dave: Right. >> And you never really know what that is. For example, I was working with a university a few years back, you normally think, well, universities is where they worried about, they're worried about their grading systems. Everybody's always worried about their financial systems. This particular university was worried about their golf course reservations system. (laughs) And their number one mission critical application, and I'm sure there was a little chunk tongue and cheek there as well, was the golf course reservation system because that directly impacted, there were alumni and had a direct correlation to the incoming donations for the following year. So, you never know what's going to be mission critical. Closer to home working very recently, there's a great case study from Aultman Hospital on a website. One of the things that they did, which I thought was absolutely astounding, was they took advantage of our offer to loan them free storage for a while, leveraging some of the COD that they're passing on demand that they weren't using. One of the reasons that they wanted this extra capacity was so that they can make telepresence available to their patients to visit with their families. At a time when families can't go into the hospital visit, when people are ill, what a great comfort to their family. So, this is a great way to look at it. When you think about these different service levels now, and you think about the different types of replication technologies that are available. Look at the multisite, what is multisite really doing for you? Multisite is giving you some level of synchronous replication so that you have an RPO of zero recovery point objective. It still may not be an RTO or zero, but it will be darn close to it. But more importantly, it's giving you an additional site to really maintain that RPO of zero in case the disaster radius, the blast area, the impact zone is even further away. Now, this isn't going to prevent any type of malicious intent, it's not going to prevent the ransomware case, and things like that, but it'll certainly prevent the catastrophic failure of the data center. What does active-active do? Well, active-active now, gives you the read write capability. And now our multisite implementation by the way, leverages our active-active. So, gives you the ability now to have the simultaneously running instance of an application in multiple data centers, reading and writing from the same dataset. And what that gives you, is not only an RPO of zero, but an RTO of zero, because now you can have an application in another data center stand in and take over for it. Naturally, the application needs to be able to do that. There are a lot of applications that are capable of it. The Oracle parallel server or rack technology, gives you that capability. There are other types of clustering technologies that will fail almost instantaneously, that will give you that capability. So, that's where really active-active comes into play. >> Yeah, makes sense for me. When I started the industry, the VAX clusters were sort of the now thing, right? >> Yup. >> (indistinct) (Dave chuckles) >> All right. So, what are you seeing in the marketplace? Are you seeing... What's the adoption look like? Are there any differences that you see by region? What can you tell us there? >> Yeah, it's interesting. Some of the first organizations that obviously jumped on to active-active type solutions, were those where there were in particularly, in things like financial services, some compliance requirements or financial incentives or motivation to make sure that the business was always operational. And it's interesting because there was a study that was done all the way back in 2003, by Roper, that asked business executives and IT executives the same questions relative to their perceptions of their companies or organizations ability to meet RPO or RTO service level agreements. >> Right. And we have some data on this that I want to bring up. So, this is the RPO data but please carry on. >> Ken: Exactly, and so they asked questions that really were about RPO or RTO. Hey, if a disaster hit, would you lose data and how much? And what the data showed was that the business executives and IT executives in Europe, were actually pretty much on the same page. They both said, yeah, we probably would lose some data or a reasonable amounts associated with it. But what was a little frightening, was there appeared to be a chasm of disconnect between the business executives, from the IT executives in the U.S. And what it showed was that the IT executives were on the same page as the European IT executives and the business executives from Europe, saying that, yeah, we'd probably lose some data. But it showed that very few of the business executives thought that they would. And then similarly, when they were asked the question about RTO, how long would it take? In terms of days, hours, et cetera, for your full operation to be back in operational and granted they were talking in 2003 terms back then, which was a little longer than where the technology can now address it now. There was, again, this consistency between the IT executives in both continents and countries, as well as the European business executives, but again, a disconnect where the business executives in the U.S thought, oh, no, we'll be fine. We'll have everything back in a couple of days or less than, it won't be an issue. In my opinion, in looking at that data, when it first came out, my impression was, well, now I understand why a lot of business continuity projects don't get approved because the IT people know that they need it, but the business executives have, if I could be so bold, an unrealistically optimistic view of their ability to achieve RPO and RTO, I'll give you a great example. There was a major high tech company around that timeframe that actually had a major outage in their email system. And email was not perceived to be at the time, ultra mission critical application for them. I know it seems strange in this day and age, but back then it was considered sort of an afterthought and they had a four hour SLA in case something went down where, hey, if we're down for four hours, we get it back and four hours, we're fine. And so, IT thought, they were doing a great job, 'cause they got it back in less than four. It was about three point something. And it turned out that the real impact of the business was so overwhelming, they had to completely overhaul the IT infrastructure that they've put in place to deliver that. So, it's an interesting issue, and it's the kind of thing where, as a result, I believe that as we sit here today in 2020, the disconnect in the U.S still exists. If you look across Europe, you tend to find a lot of deployments of active-active. The first country that probably did a ton of it was Germany, and then, lot of the other European countries did as well. For a multitude of reasons, you tend to see a lot of active-active deployments in Europe, but you don't see anywhere near as many as if I could be so bold, we probably should be seeing in the U.S, and I believe a major contributing factor to that is that there is still this disconnect, between business executives having a false sense of security that is unfounded by the infrastructures that they have in place. And if they were to ask their IT people, and maybe that's a good idea for them to talk more, they'd probably find that they're more exposed than they ever realized. >> Right. And of course in Europe, you've got, much tighter proximity, and you're up against borders of a 200 mile or a 200 kilometer roll, governments have tried to impose here, really can't be imposed in a lot of cases. Okay. Let's get into what you guys are doing here in the space. So, Doc, how do you approach ensuring access to mission critical data? What's INFINIDAT's angle? >> Yeah, I think it's several different layers that need to be applied here. The first INFINIDAT angle starts with the fact that our storage is a hundred percent data availability guarantee. It's simple enough. It's triple redundant architecture, seven nines reliability design, which equates to 3.16 seconds per year of downtime, which is less than a scuzzy time (laughs) I bet you know. Let's start with just, right, forget the nonsense, the system's are a hundred percent available guaranteed. We put some teeth behind that, and that's a great way to start. It's not necessarily going to fundamentally protect your data from site outages and network outages and server outages and things like that, so, let's be fed up and can go to in active-active infrastructure. And now you can take the system and put it either elsewhere behind a firewall on the same data center floor, or in a metropolitan area. Wherever you need it to be, separate power zones, separate networks zones, make it even more available. And then if you really want to go that next level of protection because you're worried about regional outages and things of that nature, multisite replication. But now it's up the ante even further. Let's look at the malicious intent, let's look at the data corruption. Let's look at all of the other possibilities of things that can happen to your data. So, implement snapshotting technology, in this snapshot technology, and InfiniBox is essentially free. There's no cost for the software, there is no performance impact because it's part of metadata updates that are happening all the time anyway. So, there's zero additional overhead of that. There's no additional, there's no copying of data going on with a snapshot, so there's no additional cost penalty associated with it. And you can snapshot this frequently for a Snapshot any of your data frequently to protect against data corruption. And if you're worried about some sort of malicious aspect, that's going to engage and perhaps gain access to the snapshots, we have immutable technology, and that is also free. It's there, it doesn't cost you anything other than the time it takes for the administrator to determine what the policy is. And now that can not be modified. It can't be deleted, it can't be modified, it can't be updated, can't be written to your inside whatever the polyp the defined policy is. So, now you're protected, you're a hundred percent availability, increase data hundred percent availability with active-active, and then increase your RPO capability with dissonance and protect yourself against data corruption with immutable snapshots. Or some combination of standard snapshots and immutable snapshots. >> Yeah, so, I was going to ask Ken, if this is a cost effective approach, but, I mean, it's free, it comes in the stack. >> That is the key word, and you both just said it. Standard and included functionality all based on that great snapshot technology, which was the foundation for it that Doc described. Active-active, standard and included, the ability to go to a third site for disaster recovery at the industry's lowest asynchronous RPO with a remote site. Standard and included, immutable snaps, standard and included. So, compared to traditional views of what most people had back to our illustrious triangle earlier of RPO versus RTO versus cost, you're still going to have the additional cost of media and remote site for protecting your data, obviously, but in terms of software license costs, we're making it simpler, we're making it easier, we're making it standard and included, and we're just making it so much more readily available for organizations to be able to achieve superior RTO and RPO at a cost point that maybe certainly is a little bit higher than just having that single system that Doc alluded to, it's still a hundred percent available, but it's way below what the expectations of this industry have been over the last 20 years. >> Yeah, which is double, triple, I mean easily. Well, can I understand you for a second. You've worked for a lot of different storage companies, Doc you as well, but how different is this? How unique is this? >> There are surprisingly few vendors that can offer true zero RPO at two zero RTO. There's really only a handful. We're one of them. And by handful, I mean about three in the industry, including ourselves, and where I think we differentiate is fundamentally to a lot of those points we just mentioned. The software standard and included so we're not going to charge you extra for it. It's going to be relatively simple to deploy and integrate a stock alluded to earlier with server cluster software and the key components that people would use there in terms of databases and in terms of operating systems. And it's fundamentally going to be able to offer not just that zero RPO, zero RTO active-active environment, but if you do, and when you do need to go to a third site at distance for the true disaster recovery, if you ever lost a metropolitan area, we're going to be able to do it at an RPO that is lower than anything else on the market. >> Doc, are there complexities associated with doing this at petabyte scale? I mean, you guys make a big deal out of that, and you're clearly excited about it, but, is it extra hard to do at that kind of volume at scale? >> I'm going to give you two answers, and say, yes, it's incredibly difficult to do, but then I'm going to say it's incredibly easy for the customer to do because we've made it easy. There a lot of ramifications to doing things at petabyte scale. There's the size of the caching cables that you don't have to worry about. There's the numbers of things that need to be checked, and counter checked and constantly crosscheck for validity. There's also the scale of things that happen like silent data corruption that need to be factored in. All of those things are being done by InfiniBox, on a constant basis with no impact to the customer, no impact to the administrator, no impact to the running application. And I think that's a frankly, another differentiator as well. Ken and I have some common history as well. (chuckles) Used to constantly talk about internally, what happens as things get larger, systems slow down. That simply doesn't happen with InfiniBox. And that's why service providers use us as well. Cloud service providers managed service providers are some of our biggest customers. Because they know they can have these large scale systems running with all these different workloads, all these different functions, be they snapshots, clones, whatever they are, with no impact and very easy and rapid to deploy. >> Yeah, I set up top, you got to be storage hardos to make this stuff work. (laughs) It's very complicated and we've seen it for years and years. Last question. Again, huge changes in the last 150 days where people are just really tuned in to things like digital transformation, I talked about security, business resiliency, business continuity. Where... I'll start with you Ken, how should users be thinking about this? What steps should they be taking like now? >> What a great question. And back to sort of where we started, because of the nature of how things have changed, more applications are mission critical than they've ever been before. And providing, and always on infrastructure to make sure that you can give your users and your customers and your business, the opportunity to stay alive in the face of just about anything that could happen has never been more important in the history of this industry. >> Doc, I'll give you the final word, you can pile on that. >> I think Ken summed it up really well, but I'm going to take a different twist on it. It's all about de-risking, and a lot of the CIOs and CTOs of companies that I've been talking to over the course of the past couple of months, have basically said, hey, my digital transformation initiatives are on hold right now because I've got to keep the lights on, I've got to keep my business running. In some cases, maybe I've had to sadly pare down my staff, but I've got, remote workers have got to worry about. So, find a partner that's going to de-risk your infrastructure for you. Take a look at some of the things that we've announced in the past few months as well. We'll take a lot of that risk way, not only from the availability perspective, but we're going to take the risk away from a cost perspective. If you want to talk about INFINIDAT, don't worry about things like, how am I going to migrate over to it? We're going to do that for you. We're going to work with you, we're going to come up with a plan, we're going to make as much of it non-disruptive as we can, and we're going to assume the cost of doing it. We're going to take away all the risk of availability. We just talked about all of that. We're going to give you guarantees, that are a hundred percent availability. We'll help you architect the right solution for you and we'll protect you moving forward. You might need some flex area of capacity as you work through some of these new applications and new initiatives, so, you've got to be willing to take the risk away with our elastic pricing models. Use the storage when you need it, return it when you don't, and you don't have to pay for it anymore. We'll make it that simple for you. We'll give you that cloud operating paradigm on premises, and by the way, no egress costs. (Dave laughs) >> Well, this is a hard problem for people because they've had to do the work from home pivot, IT people, specifically, I mean, they've had to spend to shore up that infrastructure and of course, organizations just saying, well, we're going to pull from other places, but, look, if you're not digital today, you're not being able to transact business. And so, you can't relax your business continuity plans, in fact, you have to evolve them. Guys, thanks very much for sharing your perspectives and insights on this whole notion of de-risking infrastructure with business continuity. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, Dave. >> Dave, is always a pleasure. Thank you. >> Cheers, and thank you everybody for watching, this is Dave Vallante for theCube, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From theCube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is theCube conversation. >> Hi everybody. Welcome to theCUBE, this is Dave Vellante, and we're here to talk about a very important topic around de-risking infrastructure with business continuity. This is critical, especially in the era of COVID. And with me, to really explore this issue is Dr. Rico, who's the vice president office of the CTO at INFINIDAT Doc. Good to see you. >> Good to see you again, Dave. >> And Ken Steinhardt, is also here as a field CTO at INFINIDAT and I got to tell the audience, Doc, you're also the chairman of the Mass Motorcycles Association. You're a very cool guy. You're a pilot, you're a firearms instructor, all about safety, and Ken and Doc you're both musicians, right? Doc, I think he played the drums, and Ken, I know when we first met, you're a music guy, so wow. Surrounded by talent so, thank you so much for coming on. >> Glad to be here. Great to see you. >> For the other thing too is that you guys are long time storage industry experts. I've known you both for many, many years. INFINIDAT deep engineering expertise of course, everybody knows about Moshay, he created the most successful product in the history of the storage industry. And we're going to talk about the importance of data, especially in this era of COVID, and how mission criticality has really become more and more important. So, I want to start Doc with you and this notion of business continuity. How are you thinking about, and INFINIDAT thinking about business continuity in this isolation era? >> Well, that's a really great question Dave, because it has changed quite a bit. And as you said, we've known each other a long time, all the way back to when I still had hair, that was (indistinct). But, business continuity is something that every business constantly looks at throughout their evolution. And it's one of these things where certain applications are typically more mission critical than others. And lately, what we've seen is this genre of a lights out data center that has become absolutely critical operating a business today. People can't just be on site anymore. People need to be working remotely, and that includes data center personnel and in many respects. So, this whole concept of business continuity now encompasses not only the operation equipment that's on premises, or sometimes even off premises, but it also encompasses applications that people need access to that they may not have thought of mission critical before, because working from home was a convenience or working remotely was a convenience, not a requirement for that business. >> You, Ken, I know you talked to a lot of CIOs. I was sitting at a CIO round table with my friends down at ETR recently, and one of the CIO said, when COVID hit, we realized that our business quote unquote business continuity plans were just way too narrowly focused on DR. What do you see from the IT community? >> It's funny because I literally was on a CIO round table with the West Coast this morning. And there were a couple of interesting comments that really stuck out to me from some of the people there. One was commenting of just reaffirming, what Doc said, how much people are working from home now. They said, traditionally they'd had traditional offices and they've just recently hired in this company about 250 people. He said, all of them are going to be remote workers and their normal from here on out, for the next 150 they're looking to hire is just that business as usual will be remote work. And one of the other CIOs chimed in with a quote that really stuck out to me. He said, "Remote work requires always on infrastructure in this day and age." And it's just a whole new way of having to make sure that businesses are operational and their workers can do what they're supposed to do. >> Well, so let's stay on that. I mean, ransomware's on everybody's mind. I mean, all you have to do is look at the stock market, you see, what's happened with Zoom, it's exploded. All the end point securities, identity access management security companies are going crazy, because (chuckles) people are now so vulnerable. So, they're more exposed to ransomware, Ken, what do we really need to know about ransomware? First, the smart company, smart organization is the one that is prepared and assumes the worst. Which means don't think it can't happen to you, especially when you look at a couple of the more public examples in the last couple of years in particular. So, it means you must take steps to protect yourself, particularly for the sake of your company, your business, your employees, your shareholders, your customers, everyone else. And that means deploying technology that assumes that if the worst case scenario could happen to you, how do you make sure that you have taken the steps that you can avoid the worst possible scenarios that could happen? >> Well, you know, Doc, lot of times when you have this discussion on ransomware, people say, well, should I pay the ransom? And sometimes people say, well, yeah, maybe it should go. You hope you never get there, right? (chuckles) >> Right, you absolutely hope you never get there. There is such horrible examples of paying ransom that just don't work. Just look at the Somalia pirates as an example, right? It doesn't stop them at all, but, take a look at what the potential impact is, not the potential impact to your business and your employees, but the potential impact to society. A couple of years ago with Sony, was very notorious case. More recently, a couple of months ago, Garmin. As you mentioned, I'm a pilot, but I was very worried as what reservoir, a lot of people in the aircraft and in aviation industry. What's going to happen not only with our private information, the account information, but what's going to happen with avionics updates? If Garmin didn't have a fallback plan, a way to recover, then what was going to happen? And I'm sure they were going through the process and the thoughts of, should we pay this year? How else do we get out of this? But, fortunately they had a very good plan in place and it only took them a couple of days to restore back to normal operations. Arguably as far as avionics goes, they were lucky in the sense that this happened to them right in the middle of an update cycle, which is 28 day cycle. But the fact that it only took them a couple of days, congratulations to them. I'm sure that with even better plans and a little bit of extra effort, it could have been a matter of hours instead of days. >> Well, let's come back to business continuity. Ken, do you feel as though businesses are not prepared based on the conversation we were having earlier? >> Some are, some aren't. It will be getting into that, I think in a little bit more detail as well, but historically, organizations I think have focused far too much just on traditional disaster recovery, usually with things like some of the technologies that have been around a long while like backup, and onto often having focused towards the technologies that really do keep the business running without human intervention if something were to ever go wrong. >> So, Doc, anything you'd add to that? I mean, what's the state of business continuity from your perspective? Are people having to really starting to accelerate a journey because of this COVID? >> I absolutely think they're accelerating a journey. They're also looking now at, this concept of multiple active sites. The concept of active sites is not something new, it's something that dates back a couple of decades and a lot of the financial industry. When they were struck, they were looking at some very significant changes in their operational paradigm because they realized that the system is going down and is only a small percentage of the problem that people impact is far worse. The operational procedures, the human intervention. So, what they would do is typically build out multiple sites and rotate the applications between them. What they really haven't done yet, at least not on a broad scale and certainly not in the U.S and some cases in Europe, they started this journey, having applications running simultaneously in multiple sites accessing the same data sets. It's not a brand new concept, but it's something that has improved significantly. The technologies have improved significantly over the course of the past decade. And with the introduction of our active backend solution, a couple of years ago, even brought it to an entirely new level. >> The people aspect that Doc mentioned is so critical. And that's certainly been one of the key lessons learned when real disasters have occurred is that the systems have to be, if you really want to keep your business operating making an assumption that people are going to have depending upon the nature of the disaster. Very different priorities and one of them is not, Gee, do I keep these ITs systems running or not? They're going to be worried about their co-workers, their families, other things, et cetera. So, the ultimate has to be systems that are capable of continuing the operation of the business in the face of a site failure, a metropolitan area failure or whatever it takes without the requirement necessarily for human intervention. >> So, I want to get into active-active. But before we do, I wonder if we could do a little sort of data protection one on one, a back up, a replication, you got snapshots, Doc, what do we need to know about each in the context of this discussion? >> I think the important thing to look at when you think about the different types of technologies and say you apply the solutions is that some of them apply to specific equipment failures, and some of them apply to data failure. And I separate equipment from data in the sense that data can be corrupted in some shape or form. It can be through malicious attack, like ransomware as an example, only one example, other types of malware can play a factor as well, or it can be incidental. Somebody pressing the wrong button, it can be an operational procedure, perhaps another system failure that causes a change in the data or corruption in the data that makes it essentially unusable. So, whenever we're looking at this, we have to start with what is the recovery point objective. The RPO that's where most people start with. And in the RPO, in essence, if you think of time zero, right now, it's where the failure occurs. Walk backwards. How far back can I go and still sustain my business? Now, there may be other procedural things you can do to catch up as close to that RPO and zero as you can, but each of these technologies that we're talking about give you a different RPOs, like rewinding a tape back to a point in time. So, that's the first place to start. >> Okay. So, let's bring up that slide actually. I actually liked this as the fireball slide I call it, but this is how people measure sort of the business impact, if you will, RPO and RTO. And what I like about this is in this digital world, it's kind of a cliche, but everything's getting more intense. People want, they don't want to lose data when you ask a customer, how much data are you willing to lose? They say none. >> None. >> And you say, well, how much are you willing to pay? So, Ken, I wonder if you could sort of describe that tension and that dynamic that's really underscored in this slide. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah, you hit it on the head David. It's the traditional trade off between RPO, RTO and cost. As Doc described with RPO, the objective would be to get as close to zero data loss as you could possibly get, with RTO which measures the time associated with how long will it take you to get back to your acceptable level of RPO. That is a time factor where for every minute or second, that goes by that you're not in business, that's the extension of the RTO. And historically, the closer you get as you approach zero RPO and zero RTO, usually the greater the cost goes up. And it's always been the eternal trade off, is a great analogy. It's sort of like if you want to buy a car. RPO equates for the quality of the solution, RTO is time or speed and cost is cost. If you buy a car, if it's good and it's fast, it won't be cheap. If it's good, and it's cheap, it won't be fast. And if it's fast, and it's cheap, it won't be good. So, usually that's the kind of tradeoff we will have to deal with there. And, the factors that will impact that, as Doc alluded to can be many. There's many aspects that you have to consider in terms of what is the service level that the business requires, and do we have solutions in place that can actually give us what is the real service level of the business requires if something were to go back? >> Because, customers have gone through, unnatural acts, and Doc before you were kind of describing what some people would refer to as, as a three site, data centers and all kinds of things that people will do, but that brings us to active-active, Doc, what is active-active? >> Yeah, let me interject a point there, and then I'll get to your question about active-active. First is the question I can raise about service level, that's absolutely critical. And business may have different service levels for different applications. >> Dave: Right. >> And you never really know what that is. For example, I was working with a university a few years back, you normally think, well, universities is where they worried about, they're worried about their grading systems. Everybody's always worried about their financial systems. This particular university was worried about their golf course reservations system. (laughs) And their number one mission critical application, and I'm sure there was a little chunk tongue and cheek there as well, was the golf course reservation system because that directly impacted, there were alumni and had a direct correlation to the incoming donations for the following year. So, you never know what's going to be mission critical. Closer to home working very recently, there's a great case study from Aultman Hospital on a website. One of the things that they did, which I thought was absolutely astounding, was they took advantage of our offer to loan them free storage for a while, leveraging some of the COD that they're passing on demand that they weren't using. One of the reasons that they wanted this extra capacity was so that they can make telepresence available to their patients to visit with their families. At a time when families can't go into the hospital visit, when people are ill, what a great comfort to their family. So, this is a great way to look at it. When you think about these different service levels now, and you think about the different types of replication technologies that are available. Look at the multisite, what is multisite really doing for you? Multisite is giving you some level of synchronous replication so that you have an RPO of zero recovery point objective. It still may not be an RTO or zero, but it will be darn close to it. But more importantly, it's giving you an additional site to really maintain that RPO of zero in case the disaster radius, the blast area, the impact zone is even further away. Now, this isn't going to prevent any type of malicious intent, it's not going to prevent the ransomware case, and things like that, but it'll certainly prevent the catastrophic failure of the data center. What does active-active do? Well, active-active now, gives you the read write capability. And now our multisite implementation by the way, leverages our active-active. So, gives you the ability now to have the simultaneously running instance of an application in multiple data centers, reading and writing from the same dataset. And what that gives you, is not only an RPO of zero, but an RTO of zero, because now you can have an application in another data center stand in and take over for it. Naturally, the application needs to be able to do that. There are a lot of applications that are capable of it. The Oracle parallel server or rack technology, gives you that capability. There are other types of clustering technologies that will fail almost instantaneously, that will give you that capability. So, that's where really active-active comes into play. >> Yeah, makes sense for me. When I started the industry, the VAX clusters were sort of the now thing, right? >> Yup. >> (indistinct) (Dave chuckles) >> All right. So, what are you seeing in the marketplace? Are you seeing... What's the adoption look like? Are there any differences that you see by region? What can you tell us there? >> Yeah, it's interesting. Some of the first organizations that obviously jumped on to active-active type solutions, were those where there were in particularly, in things like financial services, some compliance requirements or financial incentives or motivation to make sure that the business was always operational. And it's interesting because there was a study that was done all the way back in 2003, by Roper, that asked business executives and IT executives the same questions relative to their perceptions of their companies or organizations ability to meet RPO or RTO service level agreements. >> Right. And we have some data on this that I want to bring up. So, this is the RPO data but please carry on. >> Ken: Exactly, and so they asked questions that really were about RPO or RTO. Hey, if a disaster hit, would you lose data and how much? And what the data showed was that the business executives and IT executives in Europe, were actually pretty much on the same page. They both said, yeah, we probably would lose some data or a reasonable amounts associated with it. But what was a little frightening, was there appeared to be a chasm of disconnect between the business executives, from the IT executives in the U.S. And what it showed was that the IT executives were on the same page as the European IT executives and the business executives from Europe, saying that, yeah, we'd probably lose some data. But it showed that very few of the business executives thought that they would. And then similarly, when they were asked the question about RTO, how long would it take? In terms of days, hours, et cetera, for your full operation to be back in operational and granted they were talking in 2003 terms back then, which was a little longer than where the technology can now address it now. There was, again, this consistency between the IT executives in both continents and countries, as well as the European business executives, but again, a disconnect where the business executives in the U.S thought, oh, no, we'll be fine. We'll have everything back in a couple of days or less than, it won't be an issue. In my opinion, in looking at that data, when it first came out, my impression was, well, now I understand why a lot of business continuity projects don't get approved because the IT people know that they need it, but the business executives have, if I could be so bold and unrealistically optimistic view of their ability to achieve RPO and RTO, I'll give you a great example. There was a major high tech company around that timeframe that actually had a major outage in their email system. And email was not perceived to be at the time, ultra mission critical application for them. I know it seems strange in this day and age, but back then it was considered sort of an afterthought and they had a four hour SLA in case something went down where, hey, if we're down for four hours, we get it back and four hours, we're fine. And so, IT thought, they were doing a great job, 'cause they got it back in less than four. It was about three point something. And it turned out that the real impact of the business was so overwhelming, they had to completely overhaul the IT infrastructure that they've put in place to deliver that. So, it's an interesting issue, and it's the kind of thing where, as a result, I believe that as we sit here today in 2020, the disconnect in the U.S still exists. If you look across Europe, you tend to find a lot of deployments of active-active. The first country that probably did a ton of it was Germany, and then, lot of the other European countries did as well. For a multitude of reasons, you tend to see a lot of active-active deployments in Europe, but you don't see anywhere near as many as if I could be so bold, we probably should be seeing in the U.S, and I believe a major contributing factor to that is that there is still this disconnect, between business executives having a false sense of security that is unfounded by the infrastructures that they have in place. And if they were to ask their IT people, and maybe that's a good idea for them to talk more, they'd probably find that they're more exposed than they ever realized. >> Right. And of course in Europe, you've got, much tighter proximity, and you're up against borders of a 200 mile or a 200 kilometer roll, governments have tried to impose here, really can't be imposed in a lot of cases. Okay. Let's get into what you guys are doing here in the space. So, Doc, how do you approach ensuring access to mission critical data? What's INFINIDAT's angle? >> Yeah, I think it's several different layers that need to be applied here. The first INFINIDAT angle starts with the fact that our storage is a hundred percent data availability guarantee. It's simple enough. It's triple redundant architecture, seven nines reliability design, which equates to 3.16 seconds per year of downtime, which is less than a scuzzy time (laughs) I bet you know. Let's start with just, right, forget the nonsense, the system's are a hundred percent available guaranteed. We put some teeth behind that, and that's a great way to start. It's not necessarily going to fundamentally protect your data from site outages and network outages and server outages and things like that, so, let's be fed up and can go to in active-active infrastructure. And now you can take the system and put it either elsewhere behind a firewall on the same data center floor, or in a metropolitan area. Wherever you need it to be, separate power zones, separate networks zones, make it even more available. And then if you really want to go that next level of protection because you're worried about regional outages and things of that nature, multisite replication. But now it's up the ante even further. Let's look at the malicious intent, let's look at the data corruption. Let's look at all of the other possibilities of things that can happen to your data. So, implement snapshotting technology, in this snapshot technology, and InfiniBox is essentially free. There's no cost for the software, there is no performance impact because it's part of metadata updates that are happening all the time anyway. So, there's zero additional overhead of that. There's no additional, there's no copying of data going on with a snapshot, so there's no additional cost penalty associated with it. And you can snapshot this frequently for a Snapshot any of your data frequently to protect against data corruption. And if you're worried about some sort of malicious aspect, that's going to engage and perhaps gain access to the snapshots, we have immutable technology, and that is also free. It's there, it doesn't cost you anything other than the time it takes for the administrator to determine what the policy is. And now that can not be modified. It can't be deleted, it can't be modified, it can't be updated, can't be written to your inside whatever the polyp the defined policy is. So, now you're protected, you're a hundred percent availability, increase data hundred percent availability with active-active, and then increase your RPO capability with dissonance and protect yourself against data corruption with immutable snapshots. Or some combination of standard snapshots and immutable snapshots. >> Yeah, so, I was going to ask Ken, if this is a cost effective approach, but, I mean, it's free, it comes in the stuff. >> That is the key word, and you both just said it. Standard and included functionality all based on that great snapshot technology, which was the foundation for it that Doc described. Active-active, standard and included, the ability to go to a third site for disaster recovery at the industry's lowest asynchronous RPO with a remote site. Standard and included, immutable snaps, standard and included. So, compared to traditional views of what most people had back to our illustrious triangle earlier of RPO versus RTO versus cost, you're still going to have the additional cost of media and remote site for protecting your data, obviously, but in terms of software license costs, we're making it simpler, we're making it easier, we're making it standard and included, and we're just making it so much more readily available for organizations to be able to achieve superior RTO and RPO at a cost point that maybe certainly is a little bit higher than just having that single system that Doc alluded to, it's still a hundred percent available, but it's way below what the expectations of this industry have been over the last 20 years. >> Yeah, which is double, triple, I mean easily. Well, can I understand you for a second. You've worked for a lot of different storage companies, Doc you as well, but how different is this? How unique is this? >> There are surprisingly few vendors that can offer true zero RPO at two zero RTO. There's really only a handful. We're one of them. And by handful, I mean about three in the industry, including ourselves, and where I think we differentiate is fundamentally to a lot of those points we just mentioned. The software standard and included so we're not going to charge you extra for it. It's going to be relatively simple to deploy and integrate a stock alluded to earlier with server cluster software and the key components that people would use there in terms of databases and in terms of operating systems. And it's fundamentally going to be able to offer not just that zero RPO, zero RTO active-active environment, but if you do, and when you do need to go to a third site at distance for the true disaster recovery, if you ever lost a metropolitan area, we're going to be able to do it at an RPO that is lower than anything else on the market. >> Doc, are there complexities associated with doing this at petabyte scale? I mean, you guys make a big deal out of that, and you're clearly excited about it, but, is it extra hard to do at that kind of volume at scale? >> I'm going to give you two answers, and say, yes, it's incredibly difficult to do, but then I'm going to say it's incredibly easy for the customer to do because we've made it easy. There a lot of ramifications to doing things at petabyte scale. There's the size of the caching cables that you don't have to worry about. There's the numbers of things that need to be checked, and counter checked and constantly crosscheck for validity. There's also the scale of things that happen like silent data corruption that need to be factored in. All of those things are being done by InfiniBox, on a constant basis with no impact to the customer, no impact to the administrator, no impact to the running application. And I think that's a frankly, another differentiator as well. Ken and I have some common history as well. (chuckles) Used to constantly talk about internally, what happens as things get larger, systems slow down. That simply doesn't happen with InfiniBox. And that's why service providers use us as well. Cloud service providers managed service providers are some of our biggest customers. Because they know they can have these large scale systems running with all these different workloads, all these different functions, be they snapshots, clones, whatever they are, with no impact and very easy and rapid to deploy. >> Yeah, I set up top, you got to be storage hardos to make this stuff work. (laughs) It's very complicated and we've seen it for years and years. Last question. Again, huge changes in the last 150 days where people are just really tuned in to things like digital transformation, I talked about security, business resiliency, business continuity. Where... I'll start with you Ken, how should users be thinking about this? What steps should they be taking like now? >> What a great question. And back to sort of where we started, because of the nature of how things have changed, more applications are mission critical than they've ever been before. And providing, and always on infrastructure to make sure that you can give your users and your customers and your business, the opportunity to stay alive in the face of just about anything that could happen has never been more important in the history of this industry. >> Doc, I'll give you the final word, you can pile on that. >> I think Ken summed it up really well, but I'm going to take a different twist on it. It's all about de-risking, and a lot of the CIOs and CTOs of companies that I've been talking to over the course of the past couple of months, have basically said, hey, my digital transformation initiatives are on hold right now because I've got to keep the lights on, I've got to keep my business running. In some cases, maybe I've had to sadly pare down my staff, but I've got, remote workers have got to worry about. So, find a partner that's going to de-risk your infrastructure for you. Take a look at some of the things that we've announced in the past few months as well. We'll take a lot of that risk way, not only from the availability perspective, but we're going to take the risk away from a cost perspective. If you want to talk about INFINIDAT, don't worry about things like, how am I going to migrate over to it? We're going to do that for you. We're going to work with you, we're going to come up with a plan, we're going to make as much of it non-disruptive as we can, and we're going to assume the cost of doing it. We're going to take away all the risk of availability. We just talked about all of that. We're going to give you guarantees, that are a hundred percent availability. We'll help you architect the right solution for you and we'll protect you moving forward. You might need some flex area of capacity as you work through some of these new applications and new initiatives, so, you've got to be willing to take the risk away with our elastic pricing models. Use the storage when you need it, return it when you don't, and you don't have to pay for it anymore. We'll make it that simple for you. We'll give you that cloud operating paradigm on premises, and by the way, no egress costs. (Dave laughs) >> Well, this is a hard problem for people because they've had to do the work from home pivot, IT people, specifically, I mean, they've had to spend to shore up that infrastructure and of course, organizations just saying, well, we're going to pull from other places, but, look, if you're not digital today, you're not being able to transact business. And so, you can't relax your business continuity plans, in fact, you have to evolve them. Guys, thanks very much for sharing your perspectives and insights on this whole notion of de-risking infrastructure with business continuity. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, Dave. >> Dave, is always a pleasure. Thank you. >> Cheers, and thank you everybody for watching, this is Dave Vallante for theCube, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. (intense music) >> Hi, everybody, this is Dave Vellante in theCUBE, and as you know, I've been doing a CEO series, and welcome to the isolation economy. We're here at theCUBE's remote studio, and really pleased to have Charlie Giancarlo, who is the CEO of PureStorage. Charlie, I wish we were face-to-face at Pure Accelerate, but this'll have to do. Thanks for coming on. >> You know, Dave, it's always fun to be face-to-face with you. At Pure Accelerate when we do it in person is great fun, but we do what we have to do, and actually, this has been a great event for us, so appreciate you coming on air with me. >> Yeah, and we're going to chat about that, but I want to start off with this meme that's been going around the internet. I was going to use the wrecking ball. I don't know if you've seen that. It's got the people, the executives in the office building saying, "Eh, digital transformation; "not in my lifetime," complacency, and then this big wrecking ball, the COVID-19. You've probably seen it, but as you can see here, somebody created a survey, Who's leading the digital transformation at your company? The CEO, the CTO, or of course circled is COVID-19, and so we've seen that, right? You had no choice but to be a digital company. >> Well, there's that, and there's also the fact that the CEOs who've been wanting to push a digital transformation against a team that wants to stick with the status quo, it gives the CEO now, and even within our own company in Pure, to drive towards that digital transformation when people didn't really take up the mantle. So no, it's a great opportunity for digital transformation, and of course, the companies that have been doing it all along have been getting ahead during this crisis, and the ones that haven't are having some real trouble. And you and I have had some really interesting conversations. Again, that's, I think, the thing I miss most, not only having you in theCUBE, but the side conversations at the cocktail parties, et cetera. And we've talked about IP, and China, and the history of the US, and all kinds of interesting things there, but one of the things I want to put forth, and I know you guys, Kix especially, has done a lot of work on Tech For Good, but the narrative pre-COVID, PC I guess we'd call it, was really a lot of vitriol toward big tech especially, but you know what? That tech lash... Without tech, where would we be right now? >> Well, just think about it, right? Where would we be without videoconferencing, without the internet, right? We'd be sheltered in place with literally nothing to do, and all business would stop, and of course many businesses that require in-person have, but thank God you can still get goods at your home. You can still get food, you can still get all these things that today is enabled by technology. We've seen this ourselves, in terms of having to make emergency shipments during our first quarter to critical infrastructure to keep things going. It's been quite a quarter. I was saying to my team recently that we had just gotten everyone together in February for our sales kickoff for the year, and it felt like a full year since I had seen them all. >> Well, I had interviewed, I think, is it Mike Fitzgerald, your head of supply chain. >> Yes. >> In March, and he was saying, "No. "We have no disruptions. "We're delivering for clients," and we certainly saw that in your results in the quarter. >> Yeah, no, we're very fortunate, but we had been planning for doing our normal business continuity disaster planning, and actually, once we saw COVID in Asia in January we started exercising all those muscles, including pre-shipping product around to depos around the world in case transportation got clogged, which it in fact did. So we were well-prepared, but we're also, I think, very fortunate in terms of the fact that we had a very distributed supply chain. >> Yeah, I mean you guys obviously did a good job. You saw in Dell's earnings they held pretty firm. HPE, on the other hand, really saw some disruption, so congratulations to you and the team on that. So as we think about exiting this isolation economy, we've done work that shows about 44% of CIOs see a U-shaped recovery, but it's very fragmented. It varies by industry. It varies by how digital the organizations are. Are they able to provide physical distancing? How essential are these organizations? And so I'm sure you're seeing that in your customer base as well. How are you thinking about exiting this isolation economy? >> Well, I've certainly resisted trying to predict a U- or a V-shape, because I think there are many more unknowns than there are knowns, and in particular, we don't know if there's a second wave. If there is a second wave, is it going to be more or less lethal than the first wave? And as you know, maybe some of your audience knows, I contracted COVID in March. So I've done a lot of reading on not just COVID, but also on the Spanish flu of 1918-1919. It's going to take a while before this settles down, and we don't know what it's going to look like the rest of the year or next year. So a lot of the recovery is going to depend on that. What we can do, however, is make sure that we're prepared to work from home, work in the office, that we make sure that our team out in the field is well-placed to be able to support our customers in the environment, and the way that we're incenting our overall team now has less to do with the macro than it does with our specific segment, and what I mean by that is we're incenting our team to continue to build market share, and to continue to outperform our competition as we go forward, and also on our customer satisfaction figure, which you know is our Net Promoter Score, which is the highest in the industry. So that's how we're incenting our team. >> Yeah, and we're going to talk about that, and by the way, yes, I did know, and it's great to see you healthy, and I'd be remiss if I didn't also express my condolences, Matt, the loss of Matt Danziger, your head of IR, terrible tragedy. Of course Matt had some roots in Boston, went to school in Maine. >> Yeah. >> Loved Cape Cod, and so really sad loss, I'm sure, for all of the Puritans. >> It's affected us all very personally, because Matt was just an incredible team member, a great friend, and so young and vital. When someone that young dies for almost unexplainable reasons. It turned out to be a congenital heart condition that nobody knew about, but it just breaks... It just breaks everyone's heart, so thank you for your condolences. I appreciate it. >> You're welcome. Okay, so let's get into the earnings a little bit. I want to just pull up one of the charts that shows roughly, I have approximately Q1 because some companies like NetApp, Dell, HPE, are sort of staggered, but the latest results you saw IBM growing at 19%. Now we know that was mainframe-driven in a very easy compare. Pure plus 12, and then everybody else in the negative. Dell, minus five, so actually doing pretty well relative to NetApp and HPE, who, as I said, had some challenges with deliveries. But let's talk about your quarter. You continue to be the one sort of shining star in the storage business. Let's get into it. What are your big takeaways that you want us to know about? >> Well, of course I'd rather see everybody in the black, right, everybody in the positive, but we continue to take market share and continue to grow 20 to 30% faster than the rest of the industry combined, and it's quarter after quarter. It's not just a peak in one quarter and then behind in another quarter. Every quarter we're ahead of the rest of the industry, and I think the reasoning is really quite straightforward. We're the one company that invests in storage as if it's high technology. You do hear quite often, and even among some customers, that storage is commoditized, and all of our competitors invest in it, or don't invest in it, as if it's a commoditized market. Our view is quite straightforward. The science and the engineering of computing and data centers continues to evolve, continues to advance, has to advance if we continue down this path of becoming more of a digital economy. As we all know, processors advance in speed and capability. Networking advances in terms of speed and capability. Well, data storage is a third of data center spend, and if it doesn't continue to advance at the same pace or faster than everything else, it becomes a major bottleneck. We've been the innovator. If you look at a number of different studies, year after year, now over six or seven years, we are the leader in innovation in the data storage market, and we're being rewarded for that by penetrating more and more of the customer base. >> All right, let's talk about that. And you mentioned in your keynote at Accelerate that you guys spend more on R&D as a percentage of revenue than anybody, and so I want to throw out some stats. I'm sorry, folks, I don't have a slide on this. HPE spends about 1.8 billion a year on R&D, about 6% of revenues. IBM, I've reported on IBM and how it's spending the last 10 years, spent a huge amount on dividends and stock buybacks, and they spent six billion perpetually on R&D, which is now 8% of revenue. Dell at five billion. Of course Dell used to spend well under a billion before the EMC acquisition. That's about 6% of revenue. And NetApp, 800 million, much higher. They're a pure play, about 13%. Pure spends 430 million last year on R&D, which is over 30% of revenue on R&D, to your point. >> Yeah, yeah, well, as I said, we treat it like it's high technology, which it is, right? If you're not spending at an appropriate level you're going to fall behind, and so we continue to advance. I will say that you mentioned big numbers by the other players, but I was part of a big organization as well with a huge R&D budget, but what matters is what percent of the revenue of a specific area are you spending, right? You mentioned Dell and VMware. A very large fraction of their spend is on VMware. Great product and great company, but very little is being spent in the area of storage. >> Well, and the same thing's true for IBM, and I've made this point. In fact, I made this point about Snowflake last week in my breaking analysis. How is Snowflake able to compete with all these big whales? And the same thing for you guys. Every dime you spend on R&D goes to making your storage products better for your customers. Your go-to-market, same thing. Your partner ecosystem, same thing, and so you're the much more focused play. >> Right, well I think it boils down to one very simple thing, right? Most of our competitors are, you might call them one-stop shops, so the shopping mall of IT gear, right? The Best Buy, if you will, of information technology. We're really the sole best of breed player in data storage, right, and if you're a company that wants two vendors, you might choose one that's a one-stop shop. If you have the one-stop shop, the next one you want is a best of breed player, right? And we fill that role for our customers. >> Look it, this business is a technology business, and technology and innovation is driven by research and development, period, the end. But I want to ask you, so the storage business generally, look, you're kind of the one-eyed man in the land of the blind here. I mean the storage business has been somewhat on the back burner. In part it's your fault because you put so much flash into the data center, gave so much headroom that organizations didn't have to buy spindles anymore to get to performance, the cloud has also been a factor. But look, last decade was a better decade for storage than the previous decade when you look at the exits that you guys had and escape velocity, Nutanix, if you can kind of put them in there, too. Much larger than say the Compellents or 3PARs. They didn't make it to a billion. So my question is storage businesses, is it going to come back as a growth business? Like you said, you wish everybody were in the black here. >> Right, well a lot of what's being measured, of course, is enterprise on-prem storage, right? If we add on-prem and cloud, it actually continues to be a big growth business, because data is not shrinking. In fact, data is still growing faster than the price reduction of the media underneath, right, so it's still growing. And as you know, more recently we've introduced what we call Pure as-a-Service and Cloud Block Store. So now we have our same software, which we call Purity, that runs on our on-prem arrays, also running on AWS, and currently in beta on Azure. So from our point of view this is a... First of all, it's a big market, about $30 to $40 billion total. If you add in cloud, it's another $10 to $15 billion, which is a new opportunity for us. Last year we were about 1.65 billion. We're still less than, as you know, less than 10% of the overall market. So the opportunity for us to grow is just tremendous out there, and whether or not total storage grows, for us it's less important right now than the market share that we pick up. >> Right, okay, so I want to stay on that for a minute and talk about... I love talking about the competition. So what I'm showing here with this kind of wheel slide is data from our data partner ETR, and they go out every quarter. They have a very simple methodology. It's like Net Promoter Score, and it's very consistent. They say relative to last year, are you adopting the platform, that's the lime green, and so this is Pure's data. Are you increasing spend by 6% or more? That's the 32%, the forest green. Is spending going to be flat? Is it going to decrease by more than 6%? That's the 9%. And then are you replacing the platform, 2%. Now this was taken at the height of the US lockdown. This last survey. >> Wow. >> So you can see the vast majority of customers are either keeping spending the same, or they're spending more. >> Yeah. >> So that's very, very strong. And I want to just bring up another data point, which is we like to plot that Net Score here on the vertical axis, and then what we call market share. It's not like IDC market share, but it's pervasiveness in the survey. And you can see here, to your point, Pure is really the only, and I've cited the other vendors on the right hand, that box there, you're the only company in the green with a 40% Net Score, and you can see everybody else is well below the line in the red, but to your point, you got a long way to go in terms of gaining market share. >> Exactly, right, and the reason... I think the reason why you're seeing that is really our fundamental and basic value is that our product and our company is easy to do business with and easy to operate, and it's such a pleasure to use versus the competition that customers really appreciate the product and the company. We do have a Net Promoter Score of over 80, which I think you'd be hard-pressed to find another company in any industry with Net Promoter Scores that high. >> Yeah, so I want to stay on the R&D thing for a minute, because you guys bet the company from day one on simplicity, and that's really where you put a lot of effort. So the cloud is vital here, and I want to get your perspective on it. You mentioned your Cloud Block Store, which I like that, it's native to AWS. I think you're adding other platforms. I think you're adding Azure as well, and I'm sure you'll do Google. >> Azure, Azure's in beta, yes. >> Yeah, Google's just a matter of time. Alibaba, you'll get them all, but the key here is that you're taking advantage of the native services, and let's take AWS as an example. You're using EC2, and high priority instances of EC2, as an example, to essentially improve block storage on Amazon. Amazon loves it because it sells Compute. Maybe the storage guys in Amazon don't love it so much, but it's all about the customer, and so the native cloud services are critical. I'm sure you're going to do the same thing for Azure and other clouds, and that takes a lot of investment, but I heard George Kurian today addressing some analysts, talking about they're the only company doing kind of that cloud native approach. Where are you placing your bets? How much of it is cloud versus kind of on-prem, if you will? >> Yeah, well... So first of all, an increasing fraction is cloud, as you might imagine, right? We started off with a few dozen developers, and now we're at many more than that. Of course the majority of our revenue still comes from on-prem, but the value is the following in our case, which is that we literally have the same software operating, from a customer and from a application standpoint. It is the same software operating on-prem as in the cloud, which means that the customer doesn't have to refactor their application to move it into the cloud, and we're the one vendor that's focused on block. What NetApp is doing is great, but it's a file-based system. It's really designed for smaller workloads and low performance workloads. Our system's designed for high performance enterprise workloads, Tier 1 workloads in the cloud. To say that they're both cloud sort of washes over the fact that they're almost going after two completely separate markets. >> Well, I think it's interesting that you're both really emphasizing cloud native, which I think is very important. I think that some of the others have some catching up to do in that regard, and again, that takes a big investment in not just wrapping your stack, and shoving it in the cloud, and hosting it in the cloud. You're actually taking advantage of the local services. >> Well, I mean one thing I'll mention was Amazon gave us an award, which they give to very few vendors. It's called the Well-Architected AWS Award, because we've designed it not to operate, let's say, in a virtualized environment on AWS. We really make use of the native AWS EC2 services. It is designed like a web service on EC2. >> And the reason why this is so important is just, again, to share with our audience is because when you start talking about multi-cloud and hybrid cloud, you want the same exact experience on-prem as you do in the cloud, whether it's hybrid or across clouds, and the key is if you're using cloud native services, you have the most efficient, the highest performance, lowest latency, and lowest cost solution. That is going to be... That's going to be a determinate of the winner. >> Yes, I believe so. Customers don't want to be doing... Be working with software that is going to change, fundamentally change and cause them to have to refactor their applications. If it's not designed natively to the cloud, then when Amazon upgrades it may cause a real problem with the software or with the environment, and so customers don't want that. They want to know they're cloud native. >> Well, your task over the next 10 years is something. Look it, it's very challenging to grow a company the size of Pure, period, but let's face it, you guys caught EMC off-guard. You were driving a truck through the Symmetrics base and the VNX base. Not that that was easy. (chuckling) And they certainly didn't make it easy for ya. But now we've got this sort of next chapter, and I want to talk a little bit about this. You guys call it the Modern Data Experience. You laid it out last Accelerate, kind of your vision. You talked about it more at this year's Accelerate. I wonder if you could tell us the key takeaways from your conference this year. >> Right, the key takeaway... So let me talk about both. I'll start with Modern Data Experience and then key takeaways from this Accelerate. So Modern Data Experience, for those that are not yet familiar with it, is the idea that an on-prem experience would look very similar, if not identical, to a cloud experience. That is to say that applications and orchestrators just use APIs to be able to call upon and have delivered the storage environment that they want to see instantaneously over a high speed network. The amazing thing about storage, even today, is that it's highly mechanical, it's highly hardware-oriented to where if you have a new application and you want storage, you actually have to buy an array and connect it. It's physical. Where we want to be is just like in the cloud. If you have a new application and you want storage or you want data services, you just write a few APIs in your application and it's delivered immediately and automatically, and that's what we're delivering on-prem with the Modern Data Experience. What we're also doing, though, is extending that to the cloud, and with Cloud Block Store as part of this, with that set of interfaces and management system exactly the same as on-prem, you now have that cloud experience across all the clouds without having to refactor applications in one or the other. So that's our Modern Data Experience. That's the vision that drives us. We've delivered more and more against it starting at the last Accelerate, but even more now. Part of this is being able to deliver storage that is flexible and able to be delivered by API. On this Accelerate we delivered our Purity 6.0 for Flash Array, which adds not only greater resiliency characteristics, but now file for the first time in a Flash Array environment, and so now the same Flash Array can deliver both file and block. Which is a unified experience, but all delivered by API and simple to operate. We've also delivered, more recently, Flash Array 3.0... I'm sorry, Purity 3.0 on FlashBlade that delivers the ability for FlashBlade now to have very high resiliency characteristics, and to be able to even better deliver the ability to restore applications when there's been a failure of their data systems very, very rapidly, something that we call Rapid Restore. So these are huge benefits. And the last one I'll mention, Pure as-a-Service allows a customer today to be able to contract for storage as a service on-prem and in the cloud with one unified subscription. So they only pay for what they use. They only pay for what they use when they use it, and they only pay for it, regardless of where it's used, on-prem or in the cloud, and it's a true subscription model. It's owned and operated by Pure, but the customer gets the benefit of only paying for what they use, regardless of where they use it. >> Awesome, thanks for that run through. And a couple other notes that I had, I mean you obviously talked about the support for the work from home and remote capabilities. Automation came up a lot. >> Yep. >> You and I, I said, we have these great conversations, and one of the ones I would have with you if we were having a drink somewhere would be if you look at productivity stats in US and Europe, they're declining-- >> Yes. >> Pretty dramatically. And if you think about the grand challenges we have, the global challenges, whether it's pandemics, or healthcare, or feeding people, et cetera, we're not going to be able to meet those challenges without automation. I mean people, for years, have been afraid of automation. "Oh, we're going to lose jobs." We don't have enough people to solve all these problems, and so I think that's behind us, right-- >> Yeah, I agree. >> The fear of automation. So that came up. Yeah, go ahead, please. >> I once met with Alan Greenspan. You may remember him. >> Of course. >> This is after he was the chairman, and he said, "Look, I've studied the economies now "for the last 100 years, "and the fact of the matter is "that wealth follows productivity." The more productive you are as a society, that means the greater the wealth that exists for every individual, right? The standard of living follows productivity, and without productivity there's no wealth creation for society. So to your point, yeah, if we don't become more productive, more efficient, people don't live better, right? >> Yeah, I knew you'd have some good thoughts on that, and of course, speaking of Greenspan, we're seeing a little bit of rational exuberance maybe in the market. (chuckling) Pretty amazing. But you also talked about containers, and persisting containers, and Kubernetes, the importance of Kubernetes. That seems to be a big trend that you guys are hopping on as well. >> You bet. It is the wave of the future. Now, like all waves of the future, it's going to take time. Containers work entirely differently from VMs and from machines in terms of how they utilize resources inside a data center environment, and they are extraordinarily dynamic. They require the ability to build up, tear down connections to storage, and create storage, and spin it down at very, very rapid rates, and again, it's all API-driven. It's all responsive, not to human operators, but it's got to be responsive to the application itself and to the orchestration environment. And again, I'll go back to what we talked about with our Modern Data Experience. It's exactly the kind of experience that our customers want to be able to be that responsive to this new environment. >> My last question is from John Furrier. He asked me, "Hey, Charlie knows a lot about networking." We were talking about multi-cloud. Obviously cross-cloud networks are going to become increasingly important. People are trying to get rid of their MPLS networks, really moving to an SD-WAN environment. Your thoughts on the evolution of networking over the next decade. >> Well, I'll tell you. I'm a big believer that even SD-WANs, over time, are going to become obsolete. Another way to phrase it is the new private network is the internet. I mean look at it now. What does SD-WAN mean when nobody's in the local office, right? No one's in the remote office; they're all at home. And so now we need to think about the fact... Sometimes it's called Zero Trust. I don't like that term. Nobody wants to talk about zero anything. What it really is about is that there is no internal network anymore. The fact of the matter is even for... Let's say I'm inside my own company's network. Well, do they trust my machine? Maybe not. They may trust me but not my machine, and so what we need to have is going to a cloud model where all communication to all servers goes through a giant, call it a firewall or a proxy service, where everything is cleaned before it's delivered. People, individuals only get, and applications, only get access to the applications that they're authorized to use, not to a network, because once they're in the network they can get anywhere. So they should only get access to the applications they're able to use. So my personal opinion is the internet is the future private network, and that requires a very different methodology for authentication for security and so forth, and if we think that we protect ourselves now by firewalls, we have to rethink that. >> Great perspectives. And by the way, you're seeing more than glimpses of that. You look at Zscaler's results recently, and that's kind of the security cloud, and I'm glad you mentioned that you don't like that sort of Zero Trust. You guys, even today, talked about near zero RPO. That's an honest statement-- >> Right. >> Because there's no such thing as zero RPO. (chuckling) >> Right, yeah. >> Charlie, great to have you on. Thanks so much for coming back in theCUBE. Great to see you again. >> Dave, always a pleasure. Thank you so much, and hopefully next time in person. >> I hope so. All right, and thank you for watching, everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, and we'll see you next time. (smooth music)

>>Live from Denver, Colorado. It's the cube covering comm vault. Go 2019 brought to you by. >>Hey, welcome back to the cube Lisa Martin with Steven and Amanda. We are covering combo go 19 in Colorado day two of our coverage and we're excited to welcome a successful comm vault customer to the cube. We have from the main stage this morning, Matthew mag meet data center, director of Sonic healthcare. Matthew, welcome. Thank you for having me. This is so exciting. Oh good. We're excited to have you. So you got to, you are, you're, as your pen says, a combo customer champion. >>I am a customer champion a, I've kind of prided myself on that for the last few years. Uh, I like to get involved in the community and kind of help the other newcomers to come volt as well. As better my understanding and try to give the guys on the other end of the support line and break. >>So before we dig into Sonic and what you guys are doing and how you're working with combo, give our audience an overview of Sonic healthcare, what you guys do, where you're based, all that good background stuff. Okay. >>So I worked for a Sonic healthcare USA, so that's obviously in the United States. Uh, we are an anatomical and clinical pathology laboratory company. Um, we are based, uh, West coast central and East coast of the United States and we work with hospitals, doctor's office to provide, you know, quick and reliable laboratory results. >>So this is patient data. Yes. We think of, we think of data as I'm sure you do as well. It's the lifeblood. It's the new oil. It's all the things, right? That you hear the new bacon. It's the new bacon is that was like your quote? I saw that combo last year. >>Yeah, they had, they had teachers last year with that data. Yeah. Data is the new bacon. >>Well it's, it's critical, you know, regardless of if you're for Kim comparing it to bacon, I do like that. But it's also, there's the proliferation of it is hard to manage. Tell us a little bit about the it environment at Sonic. You guys have been using combo for about four years, but give us an overview of what you were working with before and how, what may be some of the compelling events were. >>So coming on board with Sonic, uh, the combo rollout was relatively new. We didn't, I didn't really come into a preexisting environment. It was like, okay, this is, this is what we're going to use. I need you to learn it and run with it, make sure that it works. Right. And um, you know, coming from other companies that had different software applications, I was always in charge of the disaster recovery. That's always been kind of like a, a beating heart for me. >>You're the Dr. Guy. It is apparently, >>it's really hard to find someone who's excited about backups. So I've put, it's like, yes, please take it. So I'm coming in and being able to mold this application to kind of how I wanted it was a little like touch and go at first because we had people out of our, um, overseas office that were, uh, handling already and is, they kind of set the stage of how they wanted it to go. But, you know, things change. We've got to kind of move things as we go, but I kind of owe a lot to them to kind of really introducing me to combo. >> So Matthew, one of the things that we've really enjoyed talking about at this show is everybody's ready. They're born ready, they know what they're doing, what it's preparing for when things do fail. So you talked a little bit on stage about some of those times when things fail and how today you're able to be here and you're, the other person in the D R group is here and you don't have to worry about walking away from the office and you know, having, you know, I guess not a Pedro anymore, but getting that call. >>Yeah, they need to be there. So my cell phone. But yeah, so bring us through some of those, you know, failure scenarios. We are always trying different things. You know, combo does offer a wide array of different solutions they have for plans and one of them is their active directory plan. And I'm leaning towards this cause this is my most recent failure is, you know, we were just, I've always had issues with active directory testing. The fail over and my first attempt at it was a failure. But I learned so much off the bat that I'm actually comfortable now that there might be a few tweaks that we have to do. By worst case scenario, we'd definitely be able to get it back online without any issue. But if we would've gone into it without testing, without that failure, who knows what could have happened. It could've been just a resume generating event, you know? >>Well, so you, you Stu alluded to it and what you mentioned in the keynote was, Hey, my other only other Dr. Guy is here in the audience. So I actually, I have >>team a data center team and we're all in charge. It's eight, eight people and we're, we're in charge of the disaster recovery. But, uh, the old gentleman who's with me is the only other one who's, uh, uh, done a lot of the combo training. He comes to Kai, he's been to all three combos, goes with me and uh, he's, he's probably the, if I'm not around, he's the next in line to take that. So if there's a major issue it would be one of us that they would contact by. We're both here >> and you're both here. Well that actually speaks volumes. It does. And we're comfortable and you know, we've been checking email for things but you know, everything's smooth sailing so far. >>I think I saw a quote from you, I think it was in a video where you said before it was like having a newborn. >>Absolutely, absolutely. I used to check like sign in. It's like 10 o'clock every single night for the first year that I worked for sign cause I was petrified cause you know, I knew that I was backing stuff up but I don't know, was it still running with it still being backed up? Did it pause? Was it causing performance issues on the other end? There were so many what ifs and I just, I was, I was a mess. I was a nervous wreck constantly, you know, working till one or two in the morning and then go to bed and then eagerly get up and start checking stuff even before I left the house, you know? And I'm like, Oh, okay, that's finished. But now it's like, yeah, I know I finished not worried about Matthew. I think back to early in my career it was the dreaded backup window is, you know, when am I going to be able to get that in there? >>Can I finish the backup in the window that I have? And we've mostly gotten beyond that. But you know, there's so many new now we were just talking with Sandy Hamilton who was on stage before you about some of that automation. Really great automation sounds good, but there's gotta be a little bit of fear. It's like shit, you know, talking about like texting, I said like we've all texted the wrong thing or the wrong person or you had the wrong person. So tell us your thoughts about how automation is impacting your world and how calm voltage. >> I actually have very little automation workflow running through comm vault right now. A lot of the stuff that we do automation wise lies on the VMware side. Um, so that's, that's been good. I haven't really implemented a lot just because I personally am not comfortable with it yet. >>I'm not against it. It's just something that I haven't really trained myself enough to say I'm going to leave and let this run by itself. I'm still like, Oh no, this could be better. This could be better. This can be better. So until I'm 100% comfortable with that, I think we'll just leave it at a semiautomated task of just, sorry, you said something down the road that you're absolutely even even sitting in keynote yesterday and listening about the Alexa automation and SMS tax, I like writing in a piece of paper to test that because it's something that I've always wanted and ever since combo go last year when they were using Alexa to check SLA and RPO and RTO, I'm like, I want to be able to do that. So that's definitely down the road, but it's on the back burner right now. >>So give us a landscape view distributed organization. You talked about your base in the U S but all of the different clinics and organizations that you work with, are you living in this multi-cloud world? >>So, uh, we are pretty much zero cloud initiative company. Yeah. I'm actually trying to work on a slogan, Oh no, cloud zero cloud and proud or something like that. But I'm not 100% sure. It's definitely not out of the question. But with FedRAMP co compliancy and HIPAA, there's just a lot of regulation between the data that we have for the U S that transmits back and forth, let's say Australia or Ireland or something like that. There's certain regulations that we have to deal with and uh, in the cloud there's, there's very few options of where you can actually have those servers. So it's right now, you know, on prem is kind of, it's kind of our jam. >>So as a lot of organizations are going through FedRAMP certification, I was just at one of Dell's events the other week. They're going through it. I know some other like e-signature companies are doing, a lot of companies are, are you paying attention to that? Is that something that you think in the future might provide more confidence? >>Completely transparent. It's something I should be paying more attention to that I'm, I've just, I really haven't really done as much research as I should have and you know, I take full responsibility for that. But at the same time, you know, there's, there's a lot of other things going on in the U S that until we implement something of that nature, I don't really think that I'm really too concerned about it. So Matthew, you've been to a few of these events. Last one, last year there was a lot of talk about the coming change in this year. Lot of new faces, new Hedvig metallic. Yeah. So what we'll want to get your impression on the executive changes, some of the, you know, are you seeing any indications of organizational changes and the products? What I'm seeing is I'm seeing new life to a product that I've always been told is a dinosaur, which I kind of laugh cause I'm like, well if this dinosaur is doing things that, you know, the greatest and latest and greatest things aren't or aren't really doing. So to see this new life, the new rebranding of the logo, the new leadership, the new acquisitions and everything is just like feeding fuel to the fire. That is combo. And, and I'm, I'm pretty excited. I will say that I'm a little bit more excited about the new additions to like orchestrate and activate since stuff like metallic. I won't really be implementing just because of our business practices. But yeah. >>Let's talk about in our last few minutes here, cause they actually talked about some of the new technologies with orchestrate activate yesterday and today, but in terms of support we just had as to mention, we just interviewed Sandy Hamilton and she's come on board in the last, I think she said four and a half months. Owning professional services systems, engineering support, customer success throughout the entire life cycle. Tell us a little bit in, in our closing minute or so about the support and training that you've gotten from combat that give you the confidence for you and one of your other guys to be here and not tied to your phone. >>I don't think I'd still be with combo if it wasn't for their support. I, I owe so much to their support. They've brought me through some pretty dark times with deployment, with troubleshooting, with failures where I thought that I had things right and it just didn't work. I've called in at one in the morning, got great support, I've caught any 10 in the morning and got great support, phenomenal follow up. Um, their, their community impact, like their forums and their customer champion. So much. Just additional information that helps you not have to call in and not make you feel like that, Oh, that failure. So I owe a lot to their support and their training because without a, like I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be on stage. I'm, I'm wonder if you could put a point on that, the, the forums in your participation as a customer champion, you're spending your own time, you're working with your PBM. >>Why is that so important and how is this the vibrancy of this community, you know, it belongs to the worlds, you know, naming the things that you learn. Somebody taught me, so why shouldn't I teach somebody else? And if that makes someone else be able to go out and ride mountain bikes or cook with their daughter or do anything like that, then I'm all for it because it got me, it got me through all that. So I mean I have 10 15 minutes on the customer forum to answer you. Oh yeah, I know that. I've seen that. I had a gentleman the first morning at breakfast, like I've had a ticket open for two weeks and they can't figure it out. And we worked together and actually got his problem solved, you know? And it was like the only reason is because I've seen that and I worked with combat and they showed me how to fix it and I retain that knowledge. >>That's awesome. DOE takes paying it forward to a whole new level. And it also volumes about how you followed Jimmy chin this morning and nailed it. I tried. It was very difficult, you know, I'm sure that you know why he was filming that solo climber. He was sweaty palms. I was definitely sweaty phone calls. It was, well, Matthew, what a pleasure to have you on the program. So much fun. Thank you. Congratulations on your success and we look forward to hearing it. Many more great things out of Sonic. Thank you. All right. First to a minimum I and Lisa Martin, you're watching the cube from combo go 19.

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to bright and sunny San Francisco. Gorgeous day here in the City on the Bay. Dave Vellante, John Walls. We continue our coverage here on theCUBE VMworld 2019 with Doc D'Errico from Infodant, CMO. Doc, good to see you again, sir! >> Infinidat. >> Oh Infinidat! Sorry, sorry, sorry. (Doc laughs) But, good to see you! >> I missed my opportunity but thanks, Dave, yeah, it's good to be back. >> John: You bet. Marc Creviere, who is principle systems engineer at US Signal. Good to see you again, Marc here. You were here just last year, right? >> Yeah, I'm an alumni now. >> We'll touch base on that in just a little bit. Doc, first off, let's just talk about the show from your perspective. What you're doing here, explain to our viewers at home what it's all about and what you find the vibe that's going on this year. What kind of sense do you get? >> The vibe is fantastic The sense is great. Coming back to San Francisco, I'm not sure what we were really expecting but it's a really good tempo, a lot of great people, lot of great feedback on our recent launch. A lot of people looking at what're we doing, especially with VMware and availability. Lots of new use cases for snapshot technologies which is fantastic. The 100% availability, it's great getting people come up to you who say "Hey, this is incredible. "You guys actually put some teeth behind your guarantees," "you know, you're not just promising "some future discounts or something. "In the VMworld environment where I've got my VMs, "I need that kind of guarantee, I need that support. "I need to know that my systems "are going to be there when I need them, "because that's my business," right? It's just an incredible vibe. >> And had your party last night? >> We had our party last night. And guess who was there? (laughs) >> I did stop by, it was a very cool venue. The San Francisco Mint, which is, it was kind of awesome. >> Yeah, it was a great, great environment. It was great having people like Dave there, and some of the other industry luminaries talk to our customers. >> I didn't get the tour of the Vault. >> Doc: I'll get you a picture. (laughing) >> So, Marc, I mentioned in the intro, we had you on last year. So, let's look back at the last 12 months for you. US Signal, and what's been going on with you, and what are you seeing here and kind of feeling here in terms of business? >> Yeah, thanks for having me back. It's been another great year at US Signal. We are planning on opening a new data center in the Detroit Metro area, coming up online Q1 of 2020, so that's exciting for us. Purpose built, wholly owned and operated by us, so that's great. It's going to add to our capabilities in that region. We've had a heavy focus on DR technologies, DR as a Service technologies in the past year. Seeing a lot of success, a lot of really good conversations with customers and developing their plans, and bringing our new capabilities to be able to service those needs. >> So, tell us more about the DR as a Service. I mean, that's obviously one of the early sort of cloud-use cases? >> Marc: Yeah. >> Add some color, what is it all about, how does it relate to some of the other DR solutions that are out there and what role do these guys play? >> Yeah, well we conducted a survey of a little over 100 of companies in our region, a little over 100 respondents, and three out of four respondents told us that their biggest concerns were either distributed denial of service or ransomware. Obviously, we've got these bad actors out there. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad actor, it could be something force of nature making data unavailable, right? It doesn't matter how great the equipment is if either a bad actor or nature takes it out for you. So, having that protection, we're able to have replication technology. We actually have three separate technologies that we use now. We enhanced our Zerto-based offering to include multi-cloud so we can now have customers replicate to either multiple cloud destinations, us being one of them, or they can replicate to one of their sites and us as a tertiary site, so that's new. They're able to bring their existing licensing. One thing that's exciting to me, near and dear to my heart, is drafts for VMware based on the vCloud availability platform. So, we're a big VM, vCloud shop, big consumer of VMware technologies, that's why we're out here, and that's really exciting to me because it uses built in VMware replication technologies. There's not a lot of learning curve, there's not a lot of extra components. Super simple to get up and running and get RPOs as low as 5 minutes, and it's easy, and it's relatively cheap on an OPX-type platform, where you're paying for storage and per VM and that's it. And then we've also spun up a replication for Veeam, Cloud replication for Veeam based on that ecosystem. So, we've got a lot of entry points, a lot of different ways that we can protect that data and bring it in and get a copy in our data center, so in the event that it becomes unavailable at the source, it's either managed or customer managed. We can get it up and running in a short time frame on our infrastructure. >> And Infinidat is the primary storage underneath all this? >> Marc: Yeah. >> So, explain more about... So, Doc, you and I have had these conversations. The state of the art, whatever, 15 years ago, was three-site data centers, very complex, extremely expensive. I'm interested in how we're attacking that problem today. You obviously, with multi cloud, it's multi-site, but how are we attacking the cost problem, the complexity problem, the "I can't test because I can fail over "but I'm afraid to fail back" problem? >> Well, you know, there's so many different ways to cover all of these. We're talking just about ransomware, you know, ransomware are immutable snaps, become an important play and we have Snap Rotator which will allow you to build a certain number of snaps and have them just rotate through so you're not just creating an infinite number, you're not wasting time and space. And, by the way, time and space, our snapshots are zero-overhead. There's zero performance penalty, unless you want to crash consistent copy, and there's really zero data overhead because it's only the incremental data that you write. So, by creating this, you can do it every couple seconds, and then create some immutable copies of that. You know, make them time out, so they can't be modified, 30 days, 60 days, whatever you decide administratively. So that's great. If you're looking for the DRaaS, the DR as a Service-type capabilities, whether it's single site or multi site, going to cloud service providers makes a lot of sense. 'Cause now, even if it's on premises to a cloud service provider, now you're not having to worry about that second set of infrastructure, you're not having to worry about the management of it, you're not having to worry about the systems integration of it, or even go CSP to CSP, right? Go from one data center within your favorite cloud service provider, hopefully US Signal, to another or any one of our great partners would be super, too. And then, of course, InfiniSync, where if you really want that longer distance capability, why bother with a bunker site? Why bother with all that complexity and that cost and overhead? Put in an InfiniSync appliance in with a VM, and you've got the recoverability. You can go asynchronous distances, and have a zero RPO. >> For way, way less. >> Oh, a fraction of the cost. It'll cost you less for the InfiniSync appliance than it'll cost you for the telecoms equipment that you need for a bunker site. >> If I don't want to build another data center... Go ahead. >> What I'm curious about; I heard a number yesterday in one of the interviews we had, about ransomware. The number kind of blew me away, and I thought about one out of every three companies will be a victim of, or at least a ransomware attack within the next two years, which means everyone, over the next six, if you extrapolate that out. Does that sound about right from what you're seeing? That the intrusions are reaching that kind of frequency? >> I'm surprised it's that low, but I'll let Marc try and answer that. >> We've done some events where we actually demo how easy it is, like, through a phishing attack, to get that in there. So, it's not just about having those protections in place, it's your user training; that's a huge area, training those users what to look for in those emails to avoid that sort of thing, but it's not perfect. People are imperfect. >> Dave: And yeah, you got to have both the protection on the front end, the training for the people, and those recovery options in the event it does get in. In our survey, the average monetary damage was over $150,000 per incident. And that means that some people got off a little lighter and some people paid a lot more, if that was the average. >> Should you pay the ransom? >> Uh, not if you've got a good plan in place that can test it. (laughs) >> But it is, it's a reasonable question. >> Huge quandary. Some are, some aren't, right? Atlanta says "no, we're going to pay a boatload "to protect against it, but we're not going to pay that," what was it, 55,000 or whatever it was? >> Let's negotiate. >> Yeah, I think I said last time I was here that until you've tested your plan, you don't really have one. You know, it rings just as true today. >> What's your business worth? I mean, it's a great question, really. What is your business worth to you? Your business is probably worth a lot more, and they probably throw these numbers out there, thinking "Well...", then becomes a no-brainer for you to pay, and that's the whole point. Because what is ransomware? It's malware that's recoverable, maybe. You're not even sure of that. >> Is it usually, is it operator error? Is it human error that allows that to work more often than not? Or, is it a mixture of technical chops, or just...? >> It's a mixture; you've got to know what vulnerabilities are out there on your infrastructure, you got to make sure you're staying up to date on patching those vulnerabilities, paying attention to any compliance practices, if you're a compliant organization. You know, HIPAA, PCI, our entire infrastructure footprint is actually HIPAA and PCI compliant at the levels that we control. So, it's a heavy lift. You got to stick with it. >> But just to kind of bring it full circle to the comment about the ransom and paying it, you know Marc said something really important, "Have a good plan." I would argue, have a good partner. If you don't have a CISO who's got the chops to be dealing with these types of problems, that's when you need a partner like US Signal to really step in and take you through what's involved in a realistic plan, something that's not going to break the bank, something that's really going to protect your business going forward, because these things are very real. >> One of the concerns I have in this topic is that things happen really fast these days. So, if there are problems, they replicate very, very quickly. How do you address that problem? Is it architecture, analytics, I'm sure process, maybe you could add some color to that. >> All of the above. Having those controls in place, those segregations, we've got, obviously, clear segregation between our management and customer data plans. And each of our customer data plans are separate from each other. It's secure multi-tenancy, not just multi-tenancy. So yeah, it's important to keep those delineations, user access, making sure that people only have access to what they need, and a lot of that, again, is covered by those compliance practices and paying close attention to what they have. There are reasons they have these guidelines and these rules and these audits. It's to help, in large part to protect against that. >> You mentioned before, Marc, you're a heavy VMware user, Infinidat, it's kind of the new kid on the block. People said "Oh, they'll never be--" >> Marc: Not for us. >> What's that? >> Not for us. >> Not for you, right, but for the storage industry. Doc and I have been in the storage industry a while. But, I'm curious as to what you want from a supplier like Infinidat, why you chose Infinidat? How're they doing with regard to VMware affinity, all those things people tend to talk about as important. >> Marc: All right, well-- >> What do you think is important? >> Well, in the Infinidat experience, the company experience, the support experience, it is the benchmark by which we judge all other vendors now. It's that good. The working with us whenever we need equipment, obviously they've got, the price per terabyte is hard to beat with the way they're able to leverage that technology. The responsiveness, if we've needed something in a hurry they've been able to get it to us in a hurry, It ties in extremely well with our infrastructure because we scale so quickly, right? Trends are very hard with us, because there's all these hockey sticks. It's going, going, going, we get a big order and it goes up really fast. I think the theme right now is scale to win? >> Yep. >> So that resonates with us because by having that in place and having that scale ready to go, we don't even need to anticipate those hockey sticks because it's already there. >> Great. Well, gentlemen, thanks for the time. We appreciate that. Doc, Infinidat. (laughs) >> Thank you very much it's great to see you both again. >> John: Look forward to see you in 2020, right? >> I'll be back. >> Yeah, it's become an annual thing. >> Michael said we'll be celebrating our 20th year, so I'm looking forward to seeing-- >> And this is our 10th year here, so anniversaries all across the board. >> Congratulations. >> Congratulations. >> Have a good rest of the show, we appreciate the time. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Back with more VMworld 2019, we continue our coverage live here on theCUBE. We're at Moscone Center North in San Francisco. (upbeat electronic music)

(orchestral music) >> Hi everybody my name is Dave Vallate and welcome to the special CUBE community event. You know, customers are on a digital journey. They're trying to transform themselves into a digital business, what's the difference between a business and a digital business? Well we think it's the way in which they use data. So we're here with a company Infinidat who's all about using data at multi petabyte scale. We have news, we have announcements, we're gonna drill down with subject matter experts, and we're gonna start with Brian Carmody, who's the chief technology officer of Infinidat. Brian, it's good to see you again. >> Good to see you too, Dave. And I can't believe it's been a year. >> It has been a year since we last sat down. If you had to summarize, Brian, the last twelve months in one word, what would it be? >> How about two words, "insane growth". >> Insane growth, okay. >> Yes, yes. >> Talk about that. >> Yeah so, as of this morning at least, Infinidat has a hair over 4.6 exabytes of customer data under management, which is just insanely cool and I'm not sure if I counted all of the zeroes properly, but it looks like it's around 180 trillion IOs served to happy customers so far as of this morning. >> Some mind boggling numbers, so let me ask you a question. Is this growth coming from, sort of traditional workloads? Is it new workloads, is it a mix? >> Oh, that's a great question. So you know, early in the Infinidat ramp, our early traction was with core banking, transaction processing applications. It was all about consolidation and replacing rows of venoxes with a single floor tile, Infinibox. But in the past year, virtually all of our growth has been an expansion outside of that core, and it's a movement into greenfield applications. So basically, obviously our customers are going into hardcore digital transformation, and this kind of changes the types of workloads that we're looking at, that we're supporting, but it also changes the value proposition, consolidation and stuff like that is all about the bottom line, it's about making storage more efficient, but once we get into the digital transformation, these greenfield applications which is what most of our new growth is, it's actually all about using your digital infrastructure as a revenue generating machine for opening up new markets, new opportunities, new applications et cetera. >> So when people talk about cloud native, that would be an example, using cloud native tool chains, that's what's happening on your systems. Is that correct? >> Yeah absolutely. And I can give you some examples. So I recently spent a day with a group of engineers that are working with autonomous vehicle sensor data. So this is telemetry coming off of self driving cars. And they're working with these ridiculously large, like multi petabyte data sets, and the purpose of this system is to make the vehicles more smarter, and more resistance to collisions, and ultimately more safe. A little bit before that, me and a bunch of other people from the team spent a day with another partner, they're also working with sensor data, but they're doing biometrics off of wearables. So they've perfected an algorithm that can, in real time, detect a heart attack from your pulse. And will immediately dispatch an ambulance to your geolocation of where, hopefully your arm is still connected to your body. And immediately send your electronic medical health records to that nearest hospital, and only then you get a video call on your phone from a doctor who says hey, are you sitting down? Your gonna be fine, you're having a heart attack, and an ambulance is gonna be there in two minutes. And the whole purpose of this is just to shave precious minutes off of that critical period of getting a person who's having a heart attack, to get them the medical care they need. >> Yeah, I'd say that's a non traditional workload. And the impact is saving lives, that's awesome. Now let's talk a little bit about your journey. You know, our friends at Gartner, they do these magic quadrants, a lot of people don't like 'em, I happen to think they're quite useful, as a guidepost, you guys have always been strong on the vision, and you've been executing. Where are you today in that quadrant? >> Yeah, it's an extreme honor. Gartner elevated us into the Leader's Quadrant last year, so customers take that very, very seriously. And the ability to execute access, is, what Gartner says it's, are you influencing the market? Are you causing the incumbents to change their strategies? And with our disruptive pricing, with our liability guarantees, our SLAs and stuff like that, Gartner felt like we met the criteria. And it's a huge honor, and we absolutely have our customers to thank for that because the magic quadrant isn't about what you tell Gartner, it's about what your customers tell Gartner. >> Congratulations on that, and I know the peer insight, you guys have done very well on that also. I want you to talk about the team, you're growing. To grow, you've gotta bring on good people. You've added some folks, talk about that a little bit. >> Yeah, yeah, well speaking of Gartner, we got Stan Zafos who recently joined. He's gonna be running product marketing for us. We're working with Doc, so he's a legend in the industry, so we're delighted to have him on board. Also, Steiny came over from Pure to join us as our field CTO, another legend who needs no introduction. So really, really happy about that. But also, it's not just, those are guys that customers see. But we're also experiencing this on the engineering side. So we, for example, we recently were very amused to realize that there are now more EMC fellows working at Infinidat, if you count Moshe, more EMC fellows working at Infinidat then working at Dell EMC, which is just, you know a humorous, kind of funny thing. So as the business has grown and has gotten momentum, you know, just like we're continuously amazed by the creativity and the things our customers are doing with data, every day, I am continuously amazed and humbled by the caliber of people that I get to work with every day. >> That's awesome. >> We're really, really happy about that. >> All right, well thank you for the recap of the past year, let's get into sort of some of the announcements today, and I wanna talk about the vision, so you have this Infinidat elastic data fabric, I'm interested in what that is, but I'm also, frankly even more interested in why. What's the "why" behind that? >> Sure. So elastic data fabric is Infinidat's roadmap, and our shared vision with customers for the future of enterprise storage. And the "why" is because customers demanded it. If we look at what's happening in the industry and the way that real customers are dealing with data right now, they have some of their data, and some of their workloads are running across public clouds. Some of them are in managed service providers. Some of them are SASs, and then they have on premises storage arrays, and elastic data fabric is Infinidat's solution that glues all of that together. It turns it into a single platform that spans on premises, colo, Infinidat powered managed service providers, Google, Amazon and Azure, and it glues it into a single platform for running workloads, so over the course of this of these presentations, we're gonna drill down into some of the enabling technologies that make this possible, but the net net, is that it is a brand new, next generation data plane for let's say for example, within a customer data center it allows customers to cluster multiple Infiniboxes together into what we call availability zones, and then manage that as a single entity. And that scales from a petabyte up to an exabyte of capacity per data center, and typically a customer would have one availability zone per data center and then one availability zone that can span multiple clouds, so that's the data plane. The control plane is the ability to manage all of this, no matter where the data lives, no matter where the workload is or needs to be and to manage it with a single pane of glass. And those are the kind of pieces of enabling technology that we're gonna unpack in the technical sessions. >> Two questions on that if I may. So you've got the data plane and the control plane, if I want to plug in to some other control plane, you know VMware control plane for instance, your API based architecture allows me to do that? Is that correct? >> Oh yeah, it's application aware, so for instance if you're running a VMware environment or a Kubernetes environment, it seamlessly integrates into that, and you manage it from a single API endpoint, and it's elastic, it scales up and down, and it's infinite and immortal. And probably the biggest problem that this solves for customers is it makes data migrations obsolete. It gives us the ability to decouple the data lifecycle from the hardware refresh lifecycle, which is a game changer for customers. >> I think you just answered my second question, which is what makes this unique? And that's at least one aspect of course. >> Yeah, I mean that's the, data migrations are the bane of customer's existence. And the larger the customer is, the more filer and erase sprawl they have, the more of a data migration headache they have. So when we kicked this project off five years ago, our call to action, the kernel of an idea that became elastic data fabric, was find a way to make it so that the next generation of infrastructure engineers that are graduated from college right now, will never know what a data migration is, and make it a story that old men in our industry talk about. >> Well that's huge because it is the bane of customers' existences. Very expensive, minimum $50,000 per migration, and many, many months, thanks Brian, for kicking this off, we've got a lot of ground to cover, and so we're gonna get into it now. We're gonna get into the news, we're gonna double click on some of the technologies and architectures, we're gonna hear from customers. And then it's your turn, we're gonna jump into the crowd chat and hear from you, so keep it right there. We'll be right back, right after this short break. (calming music) We're back with Doc D'Errico, the CMO of Infinidat. We're gonna talk about agility and manageability. Good to see you Doc. >> Good to see you again, Dave. >> All right, let's start in reverse order, let's start with manageability. What's your story there? >> Sure, happy to do that, you know Dave, we get great feedback from our customers on how simple and easy our systems are to manage. We have products like Infinimetrics which give them a lot of insights into the system. We have APIs, very simple and easy to use. But our customers keep asking for more insights into their environment, leveraging the analytics that we already do, now you've also heard just now about our elastic data fabric, which is our vision, Infinidat's vision for the data center, not just for today, but into the future. And our first instantiation of that vision in answering those customer responses, is a new cloud based platform, initially to provide some better monitoring and analytics, but then you're going to go into data migrations, auto provisioning, storage availability zones, and really your whole customer experience with Infinidat. >> So for my understanding, this is a SAS solution, is that correct? >> It is, it's a secure, multi site solution, so in other words, all of your Infinidat systems, wherever they are around the world, all visible through a single pane of glass. But the cloud based system gives us a lot of great power too, it gives us the agility to provide faster development and rapid enhancement based on feedback and feature requests. It also then provides you customizable dashboards in your system, dashboards that we can create very rapidly, giving you advisors and insights into a variety of different things. And we have lots of customers who are already engaged in using this. >> So I'm interested in this advisors and insights, my understanding is you guys got a data lake in the backend. You're mining that data, performing analytics on it. What kinds of benefits do customers get out of that? >> Well they can search into things, like abandoned volumes within their system. Tracking the growth of their storage environment. Configuration errors, like asymmetric ports and paths, or even just performance behaviors, like abnormal latencies or bandwidth patterns. >> So when you're saying abandoned volumes, your talking about like, reclaiming wasted space? >> Absolutely. >> To be able to reuse it. I mean people in the old days have done that because of a log structured file and they had to do it for performance, but you're doing it to give back money to the customers, is that right? >> That's exactly right, you know customers very often get requests from business units to spin off additional volume sets for whether it be a test environment or some specific application that they're running for some period of time. And then when they spin down the environment they sometimes leave the data set there thinking that they might need it again in the not so distant future, and then it sort of dies on the vine, it sits there taking up space and it's never used again, so we give them insights into when the last time things were accessed, how often it's accessed, what the IO patterns are, how many copies there might be, with snapshots and things like that. >> You mentioned strong customer feedback. Everybody says they get great customer feedback. But you've been with a lot of companies. How is this different, and what specifically is that feedback? >> Yeah, the analytics and insights are very unique, this is exactly what customers have been asking for from other vendors. Nobody does it, you know we're hearing such great stories about the impact on their costs. Like the capacity utilization, reclaiming all that abandoned capacity, being able to put new workloads and grow their environment without having to pay any additional costs is exciting to them. Identifying and correcting configuration issues, getting ahead of performance problems before they occur. Our customers are already saving time and money by leveraging this in our environment. >> All right let's pivot to agility. You've got Flex, what's your story there? What is Flex? >> Well Dave, imagine a world if you will, if you didn't have to worry about hardware anymore, right, it sounds like a science fiction story but it's not. >> Sounds like cloud. >> It sounds like cloud, and people have been migrating to the cloud and in the public cloud environment, we have a solution that we talked about a year ago called Neutrix Cloud, providing a sovereign based storage solution so that you can get the resilience and the performance of Infinibox or Infiniguard in your system today, but people want that experience on premises, so for the on premise experience, we're announcing Infinibox Flex, and Inifiniguard Flex, an environment where, you don't have to worry about the hardware, you manage your data, we'll manage the hardware, and you get to pay for what you use as you need it. You can scale up an down, we'll guarantee the availability. 100% availability, and with this environment, you'll get free hardware for life. >> Okay a lot of questions, so this sounds like your on prem cloud, right, you're bringing that cloud experience to the data, wherever it lives, you say you can scale up and scale down, how does that work, you're over provisioning, or, and you're not charging me for what I don't use, can you give us some details there? >> Well just like with an Infinibox, we're going to try to provide the customer with the Infinibox that they need not just for today, but for tomorrow. We're gonna work with the customer to look into the future and try to determine what are their performance requirements and capacity requirements over time. The customer will have the ability to manage the data configuration and the allocation of the storage and add or remove storage as they need it. As they need it, as they scale up, and we'll build them based on the daily average, just like the cloud experience, and if, as they reduce, same thing, it will adjust the daily average and build accordingly. >> Am I right, the customer will make some minimum commitment, and then if they go over that, you'll charge 'em for it, if they don't, then you won't charge 'em for it, is that correct? >> If they go over it, we'll charge them for the period they go over, if they continue to use it forever, we'll charge them that. If they reduce it back, then we'll charge them the reduced amount. >> So that gives them the flexibility there and the agility. Okay 100% availability, what's behind that? >> You know, we have a seven nines reliability metric that we manage to on a day to day basis. We have customers who have been running systems for years without any noticeable downtime, and when you have seven ninths, that's 3.16 seconds of availability per year. Right, the life cycle of an IO timeout is much longer than that, so effectively from the customer's application perspective, it's 100% available. We're willing to put our money where our mouth is. So if you experience downtime that's caused by our system at any time during that monthly period, you get the next month for free for the entire capacity. >> Okay, so that's a guarantee that you're making. >> That's a guarantee. >> Okay, read the fine print. But it sounds like the fine print is just what you said it is. >> It's pretty straight forward. >> Free hardware for life. Free, like a puppy? (laughs) >> No, free like in free, free meaning you're paying for the service, we're providing the capacity for you to put your data, and every three years, we will refresh that entire system with new hardware. And the minimum is three years, if you prefer because of your business practices to change that cycle, we'll work with you to find the time that makes the most sense. >> So I could do four years or five years if I wanted. >> You could do four years or five years. You could do three years and three months. And you'll get the latest and greatest hardware. We'll also, by the way provide the data migration services which is part of this cloud vision. So your not going to have to do any of the work. You're not going to have to pay for additional capital expense so that you have two sets of hardware on the floor for six months to a year while you do migration and work it into your schedules. We'll do that entire thing transparently for you in your environment, completely non disruptive to you. >> So you guys are all about petabyte scale. Hard enterprise problems, this isn't a mom and pop sort of small business solution, where do you see this play? Obviously service providers are gonna eat this stuff up. Give us some -- >> Yeah you know, service providers is a great opportunity for this. It's also a wonderful opportunity for Infiniverse. But any large scale environment this should be a shoo-in. And you know what, even if you're in a small scale environment that has a need that you wanna maintain that environment on premises, you're small scale, you wanna take advantage of your data more. You know you're going to grow your environment, but you're not quite sure how you're gonna do it. Or you have these sporadic workloads. Perhaps in the finance industry, you know we're in tax season right now, taxes just ended half a month ago right, there are plenty of businesses who need additional capacity for maybe four months of the year, so they can scale up for those four months and then scale back down. >> Okay, give us the bottom line on the customer impact. >> So the customer impact is really all about greater agility, the ability to provide that capacity and flexible model without big impact to their overall budget over the course of the year. >> All right Doc, thank you very much. Appreciate your time and the insight. >> It's my pleasure, Dave. >> All right, let's year from the customer, and we'll be right back. Right after this short break. >> Michael Gray is here, he's the chief technology officer of Boston based Thrive, Michael, good to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Hey, glad to be here. >> So tell us about Thrive, what are you guys all about? >> You know, Thrive started almost 20 years ago as a traditional managed service provider. But really in the past four to five years transformed into a next generation managed service provider, primarily now, we're focusing on cyber security, cloud hosting and public cloud hosting, as well as disaster recovery. To me, and this is something that's primary to Thrive's focus, is application enablement. We're an application enablement company. So if your application is best run in Azure, then we wanna put it there, a lot of times we'll find that just due to business problems or legacy technologies, we have to build private clouds. Or even for security reasons, we want to build private cloud, or purely just because we're running into a lot of public cloud refugees. You know they didn't realize a lot of the, maybe incidental fees along the way actually climbed up to be a fairly big budget number. So you know, we wanna really look at people's applications and enable them to be high performance but also highly secure. >> So I'm curious as to when you brought in Infinidat, what the business impact was economically. There's all the sort of non TCO factors that I wanna explore, so was it the labor costs that got reduced, did you redeploy those resources? Was it actually the hardware, or? >> First and foremost, and you know this is going back many years, and I think I would say this is true for any data center cloud provider. The minute the phone rings and someone says my storage is slow, we're losing money. Okay, because we've had to pick up the phone and someone needs to address that. We have eliminated all storage performance help desk issues, it's now one thing I don't need to think about anymore. We know that we can rely on our performance. And we know we don't need to worry about that on a day to day basis, and that is not in question. Now the other thing is really, as we started to expand our Infinidat footprint geographically, we suddenly started to realize, not only do we have this great foundation built but we can leverage an investment we made to do things that we couldn't do before. Maybe we could do them but they required another piece of technology, maybe we could do them but they required some more licensing. Something like that, but really when we started the standardization, we did it for operational efficiency reasons, and then suddenly realized that we had other opportunities here. And I have to hand it to Infinidat. They're actually the ones that helped us craft this story. Not only is this just a solid foundation but it's something you can build on top of. >> Has that been your experience, that it's sort of reduced or eliminated traditional storage bottlenecks? >> Oh absolutely, and you know I mentioned before that storage forms have now become an afterthought to me. You know, and a little bit the way we look at our storage platform is from a performance standpoint, not a capacity standpoint, we can throw whatever we want at the Infinidat, and sort of the running joke internally is that we'll just smile and say is that all you got? >> You mean like mix workloads so you don't have to sort of tune each array for a particular workload? >> Yeah, and you know I can image that as someone who might be listening to what I'm saying, well hey come on, it can't really be that good. And I'm telling you from seeing it day to day, again you can just throw the workloads at it, and it will do what it says it does. You don't see that everyday, now as far as capacity goes, there's this capacity on demand model, which we're a huge fan of, they also have some other models, the flex model, which is very useful for budgeting purposes, what I will tell you is you have to sacrifice at least one floor tile for Infinidat, it's very off putting first on day one, and I remember my reaction. But again, as I was saying earlier, when you start peeling back the pieces of the technology and why theses things are, and the different flexibility on the financial side, you realize this actually isn't a downside, it's an upside. >> We're gonna talk performance with Craig Hebbert who's vice president with Infinidat, he focuses on strategic accounts, Craig, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having me. >> All right, so let's talk performance, everybody talks about performance they have their bench marketing, everybody's throwing Flash at the problem, you guys, you use Flash, but you didn't hop on that all Flash bandwagon, why and how are you different? >> Great question, we get it a lot with our customers. So we innovated, we spent over five years looking at the big picture, what the box would need today. What it would need in the future, and how would we arrive there by doing it economically? And so as you said, we use a small amount of Flash, that's a small percentage, two, three, four percent of the total box, but we do it by having a foundation that nobody else has, instead of throwing hardware at the solution, we have some specific mechanisms that nobody else has, we have a tri, which is a multi value structure that allows us to dynamically trace and track all of the IOs that come into the box, we ship intelligence. Everybody else ships dumb blocks of data. And so their only course of action to adopt new strategies is to bolt on the latest and greatest media. I've had a lot of experience at other companies where they've tried to shoehorn in new techniques whether it be a NAS Blade into an existing storage box or whether it be thin provisioning after the fact. And things that are done sort of like after the design is done never pan out very well. And the beauty with Infinibox is that all our protocols work the same way. I-ska-zin, NAS Block, it is all structured the same way. And that makes performance equal over all those protocols. And it makes it also easy to manage via the same API structure. >> So you're claiming that you can give equivalent or better performance with a combination of Flash and Spinning Disk than your competitors who are all Flash. Can you kind of add some color to that? >> Absolutely, so we use DRAM, all of our writes are ingested into the box through DRAM. We have 130 microsecond latency. Which is actually the lowest speed that fiber channel can attain, and so we're able to do things very, very quickly, it's 800 times faster NAND which is what our competitors are using. We have no raid structure on the SSD at all. So as things flow out of DRAM and go onto the SSD, our SSD is faster than everybody else's. Even though we use the same, so there's a mechanism there that we optimize. We write in large sequential blocks to the SSD. So the wear rate isn't the same as what our competitors are using, so everything we do is with an optimization, both for the present data and also the recall, and one of the things that culminates in a massive success for us, how we have those three tiers of data, but how we're able to out performance all Flash arrays, is that we do something, we hold data in cache for a massive amount of time, the average write latency in something like a VMAX is something like 13 seconds, the maximum is 28, we hold things for an astounding five minutes, and what that allows us to do is put profiles around things and remove randomness, randomness is something that's plagued data storage vendors for years. Whether it's random writes or random reads. If you can remove that randomness, then you can write out what are the slowest spinning disks out there, the Nearline SAS drives, but they're the fastest disks for sequential read, so if everything you write out is sequential, you can use the lowest cost disk, the Nearline SAS disk, and maximize their performance. And it's that technology, it's those patterns, 138 patterns that allow us to do all of these 38 steps in the process which augment our ability to serve customers data at a vastly reduced price. >> So your secret sauce is architecture intelligence as you call it, and then your able to provide lower cost media, and of course if Flash were lower cost, you'd be able to use that. There's no reason that you couldn't. Is that correct? >> We could but we wouldn't gain anything from it. A lot of customers say to us, why aren't you using more Flash, why don't you build an all Flash array? Why don't you use NVME? And we are actually the next version of the soft-wool-ship and the ME Capable as well as storage class memory. Why we don't do it is because we don't need it. Our customers have often said to us why don't you use 16 gig fiber channel or 32. And we haven't made that move because we don't move bottlenecks, we give customers a solution which is an end to end appliance, and so when we refresh the software stack, and we change the config with that, we make sure that the fiber channel is upgraded, we make sure that the three port, the Infiniban, everything comes with an uplift so there's not just one single area of a bottleneck. We could use more SSD but it would just be more money and we wouldn't be able to give you any more performance than we are today. >> So you have some hard news today. Tell us about that. >> Yeah I will. So we are a software company, and going back to the gen one I was here on day one when we started selling in the United States, when the first box was released it was 300,000 IOs, Moshe said he wanted a million IOs without changing the platform. We got up to about 900,000, that's a massive increase by just software tweaks, and so what we do is once the product has gone through its second year we go back and we optimize and we reevaluate. Which is what we did in the fall of 2018. And we were able to give a 30% uplift to our existing customers just with software tweaks in that area, so now we move to another config where we will introduce the 16, the 32 gig fiber channel cards and the MEO for fabric and storage class memory and all those things that are up and coming, but we don't need to utilize those until the price point drops. Right now if we did that, we'd just be like everybody else, and we would be driving up the price point, we're making the box ready to adapt those when the price point becomes accessible to our customers. >> Okay, last question, you spent a lot of time with strategic accounts, financial services, healthcare, insurance, what are some of the most pressing problems that you're hearing from them that you guys are helping them solve? >> It's a great question, so we see people with sprawl, managing many, many arrays, one of our competitors for instance for Splunk, they'll give you one array with one interface for the hot indexes, another mid tier array with another interface for the warm indexes. >> Brute force. >> Yeah, and then they'll give you a bunch of cold now storage on the back end with another disparate interface, all three of them are managed separately and you can't even control them from the same API. So what customers like about us, and just Splunk is one example. So we come in with just one 19 inch array and one rack, the hot indexes are handled by the DRAM, the warm indexes are handled by the SSD, and cold data's right there on the Nearline Sass drives. So they see from us this powerful, all encompassing solution that's better, faster, and cheaper. We sell on real, not effective, and so when encryption and things like this get turned on, the price point doesn't go up with Infinidat customers. They already know what they're buying. Everything else is just cream. And it's massive for economical reasons, as well as technological reasons. >> Excellent, Craig, thank you. >> Thank you very much for having me. >> Okay keep it right there everybody. We'll be right back after this short break. (calming music) We're back with Ken Steinhart who's a field CTO with Infinidat, Ken, good to see you again. >> Great to see you Dave, it's been a long while. >> It sure has, thanks for coming back on the CUBE here. So you have the customer perspective. You've worked with a lot of customers. You've been a customer, availability, high availability, obviously important, especially in the context of storage. What's Infinidat's story there? >> Well high availability's been a cornerstone for Infinidat obviously from the beginning. And it's really driven some pretty amazing things. Not the least of which has been seven nines of availability proven by the product. What's new and different now, is we're extending that with the ability to do active active clustering and it's the real deal, we're talking about the ability to have the exact same volume now at synchronous distances, presenting itself to both sites as if it were just a single volume. Now this is technology that's based upon the existing synchronous replication and Infinisnap technology that Infinidat has already had, and this is gonna provide always on, continuous operation, even able to be resilient against site failures, component failures, storage failures, server failures, whatever, we will provide true zero RPO and true zero RTO at distance, and it's able to provide the ability to provide consistency also by using a very lightweight witness which presents itself as a third, completely separate fault domain to be able to see both sites to ensure the integrity of information, while being able to read and write simultaneously at two sites to what logically looks like one single volume. This is gonna be supported with all the major cluster software and server environments. And it's incredibly easy to deploy. So that's really the first point associated with this. >> So let me follow up on that, so a lot of people talk about active active, a lot of companies. How is this specifically different? >> It's different in that it is going to be able to now change the economics, first and foremost. Up until now, typically, people have had to trade off between RPO, RTO and cost, and usually you can get two of the three to be positive but not all three. It's sort of like if you buy a car. RPO equates to the quality of the solution, RTO equates to the speed or time, cost is cost. If you buy a car, if it's good and it's fast it won't be cheap, if it's good and it's cheap, it won't be fast, and if it's fast and it's cheap it won't be good, so we're able to break that paradigm for the first time here, and we're gonna be able to now take the economics of multi site, disaster tolerant, cluster type solutions and do it at costs to what are comparable to what most people would do for just a single site implementation. >> And your secret sauce there is the architecture, it's the software behind it. >> Well it's actually a key point, the software is standard and included. And it's all about the software, this is an extension of the existing synchronous replication technology that Infinidat has had, standard and included, no additional costs, no separate quirky gateways or anything, being able to now have one single volume logically presented to two different sites in real time continuously for high availability. >> So what's the customer impact? >> The customer impact is continuous operation at economics that are comparable to what single site solutions have typically looked like. And that's just gonna be huge, we see this as possibly bringing multi site disaster tolerance and active active clustering to people that have never been able to afford it or didn't think they could afford it previously. That really brings us to the third part of this. The last piece is that, when you take an architecture such as Infinidat with Infinibox, that has been able to demonstrate seven nines of availability, and now you can couple that across at distance in synchronous distances to two data centers or two completely different sites, we are now able to offer a 100% uptime guarantee. Something that statistically hasn't really been particularly practical in the past, for a vendor to talk about, but we're now able to do it because of the technology that this architecture affords our customers. >> So guarantee as in, when I read the fine print, what does it say? >> Obviously we'll give the opportunity for our customers to read the fine print. But basically it's saying we're gonna stand behind this product relative to its ability to deliver for them, and obviously this is something customers we think are gonna be very, very excited about. >> Ken, thinks so much for coming on the CUBE, appreciate it. >> Pleasure's mine, Dave. As always. >> Great to see you. Okay, thank you for watching, keep it right there. We'll be right back, right after this short break. (calming music) Okay we're back for the wrap up with Brian Carmody. Brian, let's geek out a little bit. You guys are technologists, let's start with the software tech that we heard about today. What are the takeaways? >> Sure, so there's a huge amount of content in here, and software is most of it, so we have, first is R5. This is the latest software release for Infinibox. It improves performance, it improves availability with active active, it introduces non disruptive data mobility which is a game changer for customers for manageability and agility. Also as part of that, we have the availability of Infiniverse, which is our cloud based analytics and monitoring platform for Infinidat products, but it's also the next generation control plane that we're building. And when we talk about our roadmap, it's gonna grow into a lot more than it is today, so it's a very strategic product for us. But yeah, that's the net net on software. >> Okay, so but the software has to run on some underlying hardware, so what are the innovations there? >> Yeah, so I'm not sure if I'd call 'em innovations, I mean in our model, hardware is boring and commoditized and really all the important stuff happens in software. But we have listened, customers have asked us for it, we are delivering, 16 gigabit fiber channel is a standard option, and we're also giving a option for a 32 gig fiber channel, and a 25 gig ethernet, 25 gig ethernet, which is again, things that customers asking for 'em, and we've delivered, and also while we're on the topic of protocols and stuff like that, we're also demonstrating our NVMe over fabrics implementation, which is deployed with select customers right now, it is the world's fastest NVMe over fabrics implementation, it is a round trip latency of 52 microseconds which is half the time, roundtrip for us, is half the time that it takes a NAND Flash cell to recall its data, forgetting about the software stack on the round trip, that's gonna be available in the future for all of our customers, general availability via a software only update. >> That's incredible, all right, so to get out what that means for the road map. >> Oh sure, so basically with our road map, is we're laying out a very ambitious vision for the next 18 months of how to give customers ultimately what they are screaming for which is help us evolve our on premises storage from old school storage arrays and turn them into elastic data center scale clouds in my own data centers, and then come up and give us an easy, seamless way to integrate that into our public cloud and our off premises technologies, and that's where we're gonna be. Starting today, and taking us out the next 18 months. >> Well we covered a lot of ground today. Pretty remarkable, congratulations on the announcements. We covered all the abilities, even performance ability. We'll throw that one in there. So thank you for that, final word? >> The final word is probably just a message to our customers to say thank you, and for trusting us with your data. We take that covenant very seriously. And we hope that you with all of this work that we've done, that you feel we're delivering on our promise of value, to help them enable competitive advantage and do it at multi petabyte scale. >> Great, all right thank you Brian. And thank you, now it's your turn. Hop into the crowd chat, we've got some questions for you, you can ask questions of the experts that are on the call. Thanks everybody for watching. This is Dave Vallante signing out from the CUBE.

(light music) >> Hi, I'm Peter Burris and welcome to another CUBE Conversation. This one is part of a very, very special digital community event sponsored by Datrium. What are we gonna be talking about today? Well, Datrium's here with a special product announcement that's intended to help customers do a better job at matching their technology needs with the speed and opportunities to use their data differently within their business. This is a problem that every single customer faces, every single enterprise faces and it's one that's become especially acute as those digital natives increasingly hunt down and take out some of those traditional businesses that are trying to better understand how to use their data. Now, as we have with all digital community events, at the end of this one, we're gonna be running a crowd chat, so stay with us. We'll go through a couple of Datrium and Datrium customer conversations and then it'll be your turn to weigh in on what you think is important, ask the questions of Datrium and others in the community that you think need to be addressed. Let's hear what you have to say about this increasingly special relationship between data, technology and storage services. So, without further ado, let's get it kicked off. Tim Page is the CEO of Datrium. Tim, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, Peter. >> So, Datrium, give us a quick take on where you guys are. >> Yeah, Datrium's formulated as a software defined converged infrastructure company that takes that convergence to the next level, and the purpose of us is to give the user the same experience whether you're working on-prem or across multicloud. >> Great, so let's start by saying that's the vision, but you've been talking to a lot of customers. What's the problem that you keep hearing over and over that you're pointing towards? >> Yeah, it's funny, meeting with a number of CIOs over the years and specifically as related to Datrium, they'll tell you we're on an on-demand economy that expects instant outcomes, which means you have to digitally transform and to do that, you've gotta transform IT, which means it's gotta be easy, it's gotta be consistent. You've gotta get rid of a lot of the management issues and it's gotta feel or take advantage of the services that cloud has to offer. >> All right, so that's the nature of the problem. You've also done a fair amount of research looking into the specifics of what they're asking for. Give us some insight into what Datrium's discovering as you talk to customers about what the solutions are gonna look like. >> It's interesting, if you look at how to resolve that, you've gotta converge to transform in some form or fashion. If you look at the first level of convergence a lot of people have done, it's been directly as it relates to hardware architecture. We've taken that to a whole new level to a point where we're saying how do you actually automate those mundane tasks that take multiple groups to solve. Specifically, primary, backup, disaster recovery, all the policies involved in that. There's a lot of work that goes into that across multiple groups and we set out to solve those issues. >> So, there's still a need for performance, there's still the need for capacity, to reduce management time and overhead, et cetera, but, Tim, as we move forward, how are customers responding to this? Are you getting some sense of what percentage of them are going to say, yeah, that's it? >> Yeah, so interesting, we just ran a survey and got over 500 people, IT leaders to respond to it and it's interesting 'cause they talk about performance, management, security, but they're also talking about consistency of that experience. Specifically, we asked how many of you is it important to have your platform have built-in backup and policy services with encryption built-in, et cetera and we got a 70% rate of those applicants, of those people interviewed saying it's really important for that to be part of a platform. >> Now, it sounds like you're really talking about something more than just a couple of products. You're really talking about forcing customers or you're not forcing, but customers are starting the process of rethinking their data infrastructure. Have I got that right? >> That's right. If you look at how infrastructure's grown over the last 20 years, 20 years ago, SAN technology was related and every time you threw up an app, you had to put different policies to that app or put different LUN type management to how much of my resources can go to certain things. We set out to actually automate that, which is why it took us four years to build this platform with 100 programmers is, well, how do we actually make you not think about how you're gonna back up. How do you set a policy and know disaster recovery is gonna run? And to do that, you gotta have it in one code base. And we know we're on to something even based on our survey because the old array vendors are all buying bolt-ons because they know users want an experience, but you can't have that experience with a bolt-on. You have to have it in your fundamental platform. >> Well, let me step in here. I've been around for a long time, Tim and heard a lot of people talk about platforms and if I have one rule, companies that introduce platforms that just expand typically fail. Companies that bring an opinion and converge more things so it's simpler, tend to be more successful. Which direction is Datrium going? >> Yeah, definitely, that's why we took time. If you wanna be an enterprise class company, you can't build a cheap platform in 18 months and hit the market, 'cause where you architect, you stay. Our purpose from the beginning was purposefully to spend four years building an enterprise platform that did away with a lot of the mundane tasks, SAN management. That's 20 years old technology, LUN management. If you're buying your multi-cloud type technology experience in cages, you're just buying old stuff. We took an approach saying we want that consistent approach that whether you're running your services on prem or in any type of cloud, you could instantly take advantage of that and it feels the same. That's a big task 'cause you're looking to run the speed of storage with the resiliency of backup, which is a whole different type of technology, which is how our founders who have built the first version of this went to the second and almost third version of that type of instantiation of a platform. >> All right, so we know what the solution's gonna look like. It's gonna look like a data platform that's rethought to support the needs of data assets and introduces a set of converged services that really focus the value proposition to what the enterprise needs. So, what are you guys announcing? >> That's exactly right. So, we've finalized what we call our AutoMatrix platform. AutoMatrix inherently in it will have primary backup, disaster recovery, DR solution, all the policies within that and encryption built-in from the very beginning. To have those five things, we believe to actually have the next generation experience across true multicloud, you're not bolting on hardware technologies, you're bolting on software technologies that operate in the same manner. Those five things have to be inherent or you're a bolt-on type company. >> So, you're not building a platform out by acquisition. You're building a platform out by architecture and development. >> That's right and we took four years to do it with 100 guys building this thing out. It's released, it's out and it's ready to go. So our first we're announcing is that first instantiation of that is a product we're calling Control Shift, which is really a data mobility orchestrator, true SaaS based. You can orchestrate prem to prem, prem to cloud, cloud to cloud and our first iteration of that is disaster recovery. So, truly, to be able to set up your policies, check those policies and make sure you're gonna have true disaster recovery with an RTO of zero. It's a tough thing. We've done it. >> That's outstanding. Great to hear, Tim Page, CEO Datrium talking about some of the announcements that we're gonna hear more about in a second. Let's now turn our attention to a short video. Let's hear more about it. (light music) >> Lead Bank is focused on small businesses and helping them achieve their success. We want through and redesigned the customer engagement in defining the bank in the future. This office is our first implementation of that concept. As you can see, it's a much more open floor plan design that increases the interaction between our Lead Bank associates and our clients. With Datrium's split provisioning, all of our data is now on the host. So, we have seen 80 times lower application latency. This gives our associates instant responses to their queries, so they can answer client questions in real-time. Down time is always expensive in our business. In the past, we had a 48 hour recovery plan, but with Datrium, we were able to far exceed that plan. We've been able to recover systems in minutes now. Instead of backing up once per day, with that backup time taking 18 hours, now we're doing full system snapshots hourly and we're replicating those offsite. Datrium is the only vendor I know of that can provide this end-to-end encryption. So, any cyber attacks that get into our system are neutralized. With the Datrium solution, we don't have to have storage consultants anymore. We don't have to be storage experts. We're able to manage everything from a storage perspective through vCenter, obviously spending less time and money on infrastructure. We continue to leverage new technologies to improve application performance and lower costs. We also wanna automate our DR failover, so we're looking forward to implementing Datrium's product that'll allow us to orchestrate and automate our DR failover process. (light music) >> It is always great to hear from a customer. Once again, I'm Peter Burris, this a CUBE Conversation, part of a digital community event sponsored by Datrium. We've been talking about how the relationship between the new digital business outcomes highly dependent upon data and the mismatch of technology to be able to support those new classes of outcomes. It's causing problems in so many different enterprises. So, let's dig a little bit more deeply into some of Datrium's announcements to try to find ways to close those gaps. We've got Sazzala Reddy, who's the CTO of Datrium with us today. Sazzala, welcome to theCUBE. >> Hey Peter, good to see you again. >> So, AutoMatrix, give us a little bit more detail and how it's creating value for customers. >> Yeah, if you go to any data center today, you notice that for the amount of data they have, they have five different vendors and five different products to manage that data. There is the primary storage, there is the backup and there is the DR and then there's mobility and then there is the security you have to think about. So, these five different products are causing friction for you. If you wanna be in the on-demand economy and move fast in your business, these things are causing friction. You cannot move that fast. What we have done is we took a step back and we built this Automatrix platform. It has this data services which is gonna provide autonomous data services. The idea is that you don't have to do much for it. By converging all these functions into one simple platform will remove all the friction you need to manage all your data and that's what we call Automatrix platform. >> As a consequence, I gotta believe then, your customers are discovering that not only is it super easy to use, perhaps a little bit less expertise required, but they also are more likely to be operationally successful with some of the core functions like DR that they have to work with. >> Yeah, so the other thing about these five different functions and products you need is that if you wanna imagine a future where you're gonna leverage the cloud for a simple thing like DR for example, the thing is that if you wanna move this data to a different place, with five different products, how does it move? 'Cause all these five products must move together to some other place. That's not how it's gonna operate for you. So, by having these five different functions converged into one platform is that when the data moves to any other place, the functions move with it giving you the same exact consistent view for your data. That's what we have built and on top of all this stuff is something we have, this global data management applications to control all the data you have in your enterprise. >> So, how are customers responding to this new architecture of AutoMatrix, converged services and a platform for building data applications? >> Yeah, so our customers consistently tell us one simple thing is that it's the most easiest platform they ever used in their entire enterprise life. So, that's what we aimed for simplicity of the customer experience. Autonomous data services give you exactly that experience. So, as an example, last quarter, we had about 40 proof of concepts out in the field. Out of them, about 30 have adopted it already and we're waiting for the 10 of them for results to come out in this quarter. So, generally we found that our proof of concepts don't come back because once you touch it, you experience the simplicity of it and how you get all these service and support, then people don't tend to send it back. They like to keep it and operate it that way. >> So, you mentioned earlier and I summarized the notion of applications, data services applications. Tell us a little bit about those and how they relate to AutoMatrix. >> Right, so once you have data in multiple places, people are adopt multi-cloud and we are going to also be in all these different clouds and we provide that uniform experience, you need this global data management applications to extract value out of your data and that's the reason why we built some global data management applications as SAAS products. Nothing to install, nothing to manage them, then they sit outside and then they help you manage globally all the data you have. >> So, as a result, the I&O people, the infrastructure and operations administrators, do things in terms of AutoMatrix's platform, the rest of the business can look at it in terms of services and applications that you're using in support. >> That's exactly right, so you get the single dashboard to manage all the data you have in your enterprise. >> Now, I know you're introducing some of these applications today. Can you give us a little peek into those? >> Yeah, firstly, our AutoMatrix platform is available on prem as a software defined converged infrastructure and you can get that. We call it DVX. And then we also offer in the cloud our services. It's called Cloud DVX. You can get these. And we're also announcing the release of Control Shift. It's one of our first data management applications, which helps you manage data in two different locations. >> So, go a little bit more specific into or detail into Control Shift. Specifically, which of those five data services you talk about is Control Shift most clearly associated with? >> Right, so to go to again back to this question about if you have five different services, if you have to think about DR. DR is a necessity for every business. It's digital protection, you need it, but the challenge is that there are three or four challenges you generally run into with most common people talk about is that one is that you have to plan. You have to have a proper plan. It's challenging to plan something and then you have to think about the file drill we have to run when there's a problem. And then lastly, when you eventually push the button to fail over, does it really work for you. How fast is it gonna come up? Those are three problems we wanted to solve really solidly, so we call our services, our DR services as failproof DR. That's actually takes a little courage to say failproof. ControlShift is our service which actually does this DR orchestration. It does mobility across two different places. It could be on-prem to on-prem, on-prem to the cloud and because we have this end-to-end data services ourselves, it's easy to then do compliance checks all the time. So, we do compliance checks every few minutes. What that gives you, that gives you the confidence that your DR plan's gonna work for you when you need it. And then secondly, when you push the button because you want some primary storage and backup, it's then easy to bring up all your services at once like that. And the last one is that because we are able to then work across the clouds and provide a seamless experience, so when you move the data to the cloud and have some backups there, you're gonna push a button to fail over, we'll bring up your services in VMware cloud, so that the idea is that it look exactly the same no matter where you are, in DR or not in DR and then watch the video, watch some demos. I think that you can see that you can't tell the difference. >> Well, that's great, so give us a little bit of visibility into how Datrium intends to extend these capabilities, give us a little visibility on your road map. What's up next? >> We are already on Amazon with the cloud. The next thing we're gonna be delivering is Azure, that's the next step, but if you step back a little bit and how do we think about ourselves? If you look at as an example Google, Google federates all the data, the internet data and processes an instant search, provides that instant click and access to all the data at your fingertips. So, we wanna do something similar for enterprise data. How do we federate, how do we aggregate data and provide the customer that instant management they can get from all the data they have. How do you extract value from the data? These set of applications are building towards some examples are we're building deep search. How do you find the things you want to find in a very nice intuitive way? And how do you do compliance, GDPR and also how do you think about some deep analytics on your data? So, we also wanna extend our Control Shift not to just manage the data on our platform, but also to manage data across different platforms. So, those are the kind of things we're thinking about as a future. >> Excellent stuff. Sazzala Reddy, CTO of Datrium, thanks so much for talking with us about AutoMatrix, Control Shift and the direction that you're taking with this. Very, very interesting new vision about how data and business can more easily be brought together. You know, I'll tell you what, let's take a look at a demo. Hi and welcome back to another CUBE Conversation. Once again, I'm Peter Burris and one of the biggest challenges that every user faces is how do they get more out of their technology suppliers, especially during periods of significant transformation. So, to have that conversation, we've got Bryan Bond who is Director of IT Infrastructure at eMeter, A Siemens Business. Bryan, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me. >> So, tell us a little bit about eMeter and what you do there. >> So, eMeter is a developer and supplier of smart grid infrastructure software for enterprise level clients, utilities, water, power, energy. My team is charged with managing infrastructure for that entire business units, everything from dev tests, QA and sales. >> Well, the intelligent infrastructure as it pertains to the electronic grid, that's not a small set of applications, a small set of use cases. What kinds of pressure is that putting on your IT infrastructure? >> A lot of it is the typical pressures that you would see with do more with less, do more faster. But a lot of it is wrapped around our customers and our other end users in needing more storage, needing more app performance and needing things delivered faster. On a daily basis, things change and keeping up with the Jones' gets harder and harder to do as time moves on. >> So, as you think about Datrium's AutoMatrix, how is it creating value for you today? Give us a peek into what it's doing to alleviate some of these scaling and other sorts of pressures. >> So, the first thing it does is it does allow us to do a lot more with less. We get two times the performance, five times the capacity and we spend zero time managing our storage infrastructure. And when I say zero time, I mean zero time. We do not manage storage anymore with the Datrium product. We can deploy things faster, we can recover things faster. Our RTO and our RPO matrix is down to seconds instead of minutes or hours. And those types of things really allow us to provide a much better level of service to our customers. >> And it's especially for infrastructure like the electronic grid, it's good to hear that the RTO, RPO is getting as close to zero as possible, but that's the baseline today. Look out and as you envision where the needs are of these technologies are going for improving protection, consolidating, converging data services and overall providing a better experience for how a business uses data, how do you anticipate that you're going to evolve your use of AutoMatrix and relate it to Datrium technologies? >> Well, we fully intend to expand our use of the existing piece that we have, but then this new AutoMatrix piece is going to help us not with just deployments, but it's also gonna help us with compliance testing, data recovery, disaster recovery and also being able to deploy into any type of cloud or any type of location without having to change what we do in the back end, being able to use one tool across the entire set of the infrastructure that we're using. >> So, what about the tool set, you're using the whole thing consistently, but what about the tool set went in easiest for you within your shop? >> Installing the infrastructure pieces themselves in its entirety were very, very easy. So, putting that into what we had already and where we were headed was very, very simple. We were able to do that on the fly in production and not have to do a whole lot of changes with the environments that we were doing at the time. The operational pieces within the DVX, which is the storage part of the platform, were seamless as far as vCenter and other tools that we were using went and allowed us to just extend what we were doing already and be able to just apply that as we went forward. And we immediately found that again, we just didn't manage storage anymore and that wasn't something we were intending and that made our ROI just go through the roof. >> So, it sounds like time value for the platform was very, very quick and also it fit into your overall operational practices. You didn't have to do a whole bunch of unnatural acts to get there. >> Right, we did not have to change a lot of policies, we did not have to change a lot of procedures. A lot of times, we just shortened them, we took a few steps out in a lot of cases. >> So, how is it changing, being able to do things like that, changing your conversation with your communities that you're serving as they ask for more capabilities? >> First off, it's making me say no a lot less and that makes them very, very happy. The answer usually is less and the answer to the question of how long will it take changes from oh, we can get that done in a couple of days or oh, we can get that done in a couple hours to I did that while I was sitting here in the meeting with you and it's been handled and you're off to the races. >> So, it sounds like you're placing a pretty big bet on Datrium. What's it like working with them as a company? >> It's been a great experience. From the start in the initial piece of talking to them and going through the POC process, they were very helpful, very knowledgeable SCs and since then, they've been very, very helpful in allowing us to tell them what our needs are rather than them telling us what our needs are and going through and working through the new processes and the new procedures within our own environments. They've been very instrumental in performance testing and deployment testing with things that a lot of other storage providers didn't have any interest in talking with us about, so they've been very, very helpful with that and very, very knowledgeable. The people that are there are actually really smart, which is not surprising, but the fact that they can relay that into solutions to what my actual problems are and give me something that I can push forward onto my business and have a positive impact from day one has been absolutely without question one of the better things. >> Well, that's always one of the biggest challenge when working with a company that's just getting going is how do you get the smarts of that organization into the business outcomes and really succeed. It sounds like it's working well. >> Absolutely. >> All right, Bryan Bond, Director of IT Infrastructure at eMeter, A Siemens Business. Thanks again for being on theCUBE. >> Bryan: It's been great. >> And once again, this has been a CUBE Conversation. Now, what we'd like to do is don't forget this is your opportunity to participate in the crowd chat immediately after this video ends and let's hear your thoughts. What's important in your world as you think about new classes of data platforms, new roles of data, new approaches to taking greater advantage of the data assets that are differentiating your business. Have those conversations, make those comments, ask those questions. We're here to help. Once again, Peter Burris, let's crowd chat. (light music)

>> From Tavern On The Green, in Central Park, New York, it's theCUBE. Covering Veritas Vision Solution Day. Brought to you by Veritas. >> Hello everybody welcome back to the Tavern On The Green. We're here in the heart of Central Park in New York City you're watching theCUBE the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise, big events, small events. We're here at the Veritas Solution Days, #VtasVision. Veritas Vision used to be a very large, big tent conference. They've changed the format now and they go out, they're going out to 20 cities this year belly to belly with the customers and we've got one here. Vishal Kadakia who is the data protection manager at NBC Universal. Vishal thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> No problem thank you for having me. >> So as I say we love to get the customer perspectives, but let me start with this event. Why, you're a busy person, you're managing a lot of data, why do you take time out to come to event like this? What do you learn? >> You always get to learn new stuff, new products that you don't necessarily get to learn, 'cause you're always just zoned into your day-to-day work that you're doing so you don't always get to see what the new features may be or you miss it. These type of events are generally good to come see that. >> So what's the day in the life like these days for data protection manager and really I'm interested in how it's changed over the last five or six years, as you see things like, the buzzwords, digital transformation, big data, cloud, multi cloud, all the vendor buzzwords, but you actually have to live that. So how has that changed the role of data protection and data protection managers specifically? >> It's definitely a lot more complicated. Before you were just backing up om prem, you had tape, pretty much made it simple. Now you have all these different workloads, you're sending out to clouds, multi tenant as they keep calling it, the hybrid, which is another buzzword. Trying to manage the different workloads is a lot more complex than it was five years ago. You have various cloud vendors, you have various storage vendors, so managing all of that, obviously the data growth from the smaller backups to now, big data which could be terabytes, petabytes, to try to back that up has been a bit of a challenge. >> But that's a challenge for someone like you who's, you know, RPO and RTO is not getting relaxed. >> Right. >> Right. And you know people always talk about getting my weekends back so, but now you have to keep up with all of these other technologies so what is it? Is it a lot of reading, is it just going to sessions like this, having vendors come in, how do you keep up with it all? >> I think it's a big mix of both. It's going out to these events, but also having vendors come to you. Doing your own research, so it's a combination of just constantly keeping up. So, I would say it's a combination of all. >> One of the things that I would be concerned about in your roll is to have just more stove pipes. Are you able to just conceptually, not technical, deep technical anyway, I love tech, but are you to create, let's call it a abstraction layer for your data protection. Is that kind of your vision or where you're headed, so that you don't have to have 10 different formats and methodologies and processes around data protection? >> Yeah, I think that's the goal that I think every company's trying to go to, is consolidate, simplify. Whether that's vendor, whether that's hardware. I think that's really the goal of any organization now. And that's kind of where we're headed also. >> So if it's a baseball game analogy, and you're nine inning game, where are you in terms of that journey? Is it early days, kind of first inning, are you kind of warmin' up in the bullpen, are you sort of well into the game? >> I think we're well into the game. We're probably into the middle innings I would say. >> Okay. So you can see sort of that vision becoming a reality. And what are the priorities then in terms of getting to that point? Is it skill sets, is it technology, is it people? >> I would say it's technology. I would say that consolidation is probably the big word. We're all trying to consolidate while trying back up the large data sets. And I think that's where we are right now. That's where we're starting to get to, and see the plan forming, seeing where our methodologies, our strategies on how we're going to go forward. >> As you move toward the cloud, Vishal, whether or not it's even pushing data to the cloud, a lot of times you just can't. But it seems like that cloud operating model is something that's alluring to folks. Simplifying, agility, self service, are those initiatives that you guys have enacted? >> In terms of that, yeah we're I think in that phase, I think we're in our beginning to form that plan, because once you get to a cloud, you have to really have a good plan. Otherwise, your data is going to be all over the place. You're not going to know where it is, and managing that's just going to become that much harder. So I think in terms of that, we're trying to really come out with a good plan of how you migrate to the cloud. 'Cause once you get to the cloud, there's a whole different set of complexities that you have in managing it. >> Like what? Maybe tick off a few, so we can paint a picture. >> So once you get to the cloud, migrating, so you've formulated your plan how to get to, what cloud to use, what vendor you're using. How do you migrate from your on prem to the cloud is I think one of the big complexities, which I think kind of stumps a lot of people. You know you want to go to the cloud, just don't know how to get there. >> Is that just because the volume of data and you got to move data and it just takes so long? I mean to back up your iPhone takes forever and it fails left and right. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So okay. It's the amount of data and the time it takes? >> Right, and you also have legacy applications, which may not be cloud ready and how do you deal with that? So you have that hybrid model you still want to keep some stuff om prem but you want to go the cloud. What goes to the cloud, which cloud do you go to? All of that is where I think we're really at and I don't think it's any different than any other organization, so that's kind of where. >> And how about this notion of multi cloud? I mean is that something that is real in your business? >> Yeah, I think it definitely is. I think our end users are trying to take advantage of where to go best? Some places Azure might work best. Some places AWS might work. There's also Google now that's coming up, so I think you have to kind of consider where the workload would be best to go to. >> Is Shadow sort of IT and cloud creep problematic for you and in other words, you know, lines of businesses saying, it's easy, I can swipe a credit card and I'm up and running in minutes. And then, oh I got to protect this data, it's got to be compliant. Has that been a challenge for you, do you feel like you have that under control? >> No, that has definitely been a challenge area. Different groups that have kind of tried to do their own thing and then found out, oh wait, this is way harder than we thought. Let us go back to our central team. But by then it's kind of all over the place, right so that's definitely been interesting. >> Yeah it's hard, because thinking about that you probably might have done it differently. You might have put in processes and procedures in place and now you've got to clean up the mess so to speak. But okay, so I want to get into Veritas, and you're a Veritas customer? >> I am. >> So how does Veritas help you with all these solutions? I mean a lot of the things I've just asked you, I think are part of either their road map or they're making claims that they can currently help solve some of these problems. Can they, what do you do with Veritas, and how legitimate is their ability in terms of being able to solve some of these problems? >> So we've been able to use Veritas to kind of, as a central location, management of everything. One of their tools as such is CloudPoint. So our biggest thing is if you don't have a central management tool like CloudPoint, which can manage your various cloud backups, then you're left with managing each cloud on its own. So as an operations standpoint, that's like a nightmare. So having a tool such as CloudPoint, right, and then that getting integrated back into NetBackup, which now gives us a central location for all my backups, for reporting, for audit purposes, any of that has been great. And I've been using Veritas since 3.1 so I've been a Veritas customer for a long time. I've seen the evolution of when it was 3.1, a lot of it was manually operated, a lot of scripts, where now a lot of it is automated. So that's helped a lot. We're automating VM policies, we're automating SQL backup policies, all of that has been great. >> Where are you today in terms of these. >> I'm sorry? >> Where are you at today in terms of the release? >> We're, I know they just released eight one two, we're on eight one one. >> Okay so close to current. Yeah I've seen some videos on eight one two. It looks like they've really put a lot of time and effort in to refreshing it. It looks like a microservices architecture, they're talking about containers and certainly you know, saying all the right things. From your perspective have you dug into it yet or is it still early? >> It's still early. I did deploy it on a test environment. Haven't fully played around with it but some of the cool concepts obviously are, you're going away from that Java console eventually, getting to that web based, able to access it from anywhere, the manageability, like a central tool to manage all of that. That I think they're finally gearing towards that and. >> And you guys are a VMware shop? >> We are a VMware shop. >> So when we were at VM World last August, this past year, and even the year before. Data protection was one of the hottest topics, you know, on the show floor. Were you there, I don't know if you were there. >> I was not there. >> I mean it was really a lot of buzz there, sort of a lot of new entrance in that space, and would I imagine a lot of people coming after you for your business, because that's a very large install base. So when you look at the vendor landscape, how do you look at it? Where do you position Veritas, relative to some of the other upstarts? Your thoughts on the competitive landscape, why Veritas? >> Well, my point of view has always been, if it's not broke you don't fix it. There may be other that may be doing something better, but at the end of the day if it's not drastically different, it's a lot of work to move away from one product to another. They'll always come to you and say, hey, we do this better, we do this better. But then when you compare it, to me, Veritas is that all encompassing. It doesn't only do virtual, it does physical well also. It doesn't only do big data, it does all the traditional databases as well. They're always constantly evolving and adding new workloads that it can also be compatible with. >> Yeah so, I would imagine it would be a little difficult to go to your CFO and try to justify a huge migration project given the other priorities that you have. Give me some insight there. I mean what kinds of things do you want to focus on, I mean obviously nobody wants to migrate anything, it's like moving a house. >> Yeah. >> You really don't want to do it, I mean sometimes you get a bigger house or a nicer house or a smaller house, but it's, moving is always a pain. So you'd rather put your effort in your shop somewhere else. Where are you putting that effort? What are some of the priorities that you have either personally or professionally? >> I would say in this sense I think it's I don't want to work the weekends, right. So how do we automate? How do we make operations easier for everybody, the engineering, the solution, the operations. I want to make it simple. I think Veritas allows us to do that 'cause they're an open source, they work with many vendors which makes it nice. So you can, such as VMware, it works with vRealize. All those plugins with VMware and you can eventually just automate and make it simple. >> And kind of get rid of a lot of the scripts which tend to be fragile, they take a lot of maintenance, they tend to be error prone, so if you can through a set of APIs automate programmatically move towards sort of infrastructurous code or a DevOps environment. I'm sure you guys do that internally. And what a difference it makes, from the sort of classic waterfall in terms of speed, agility, quality. I presume that you're seeing that in your shop? >> Yeah, we definitely are and something like a flex appliance would allow us to move towards that. It simplifies, gets us to where we are, but also helps us with our goals of simplifying, reducing our footprint, but still being able to be agile enough to go to cloud, to keep a hybrid model. So something like that is I think where we're seeing. >> Well Vishal, we love the customer perspective, Thank you for coming on. We like to hear the truth, Vertias, truth in Latin, of course. And really appreciate your time. >> Thank you very much. >> You're welcome. All right keep it right there everybody. We're here at Vtas Vision, #VtasVision, Veritas Vision Days in New York City, Central Park, Tavern on the Green, beautiful location. My name's Dave Vallante. We'll be right back, right after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering VM World 2018. Brought to you by VMware and Adziko System partners. >> Welcome back to the Mandalay Bay everybody in Las Vegas. My name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with David Floyer. This is day three of our wall to wall coverage of VMworld 2018. We've got two sets here in the VM Village. 94 guests this week. It's a record for the CUBE. Thanks so much for watching. I've been in this business as long as Pat Gelsinger and ever since I've been in this business people have said, "oh infrastructure's dying", and you know what, storage is the gift that keeps on giving. And I just, we love the conversations. Guys from Infinidat are here. Jacob Broido is the Chief Product Officer and Neville Yates is the Senior Director of Data Protection Solutions at Infinidat. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE. Happy VMworld 2018. >> Thank you >> Thank you >> All right Jacob, I'm going to start with you. >> Okay. >> So we have seen Infinidat come in. You're basically competing with all flash arrays, you're faster than Flash, and that's your sort of tag line. So you have this system designed for primary storage and then all of a sudden, you know last summer, around last summer, maybe it was the fall. We see you guys entering the data protection market with essentially the same architecture. How is it that you can take a system that's designed for primary storage faster than Flash, and then point it at data protection. Help us understand. >> That's a great question. So, it all starts with the fact that we designed our system to work with mixed workloads. And primary storage being our first keypoint, but the design and architecture supposed to work with any type of workload. And what we started seeing in the field is that our customers first displaced a lot of incumbent primary storage on us. And then we started seeing them putting backup workloads as well, and data protection workloads on our systems as well, and coming back and saying that this works amazingly led to more of that. This basically led us to a point of expanding on that strategy and introducing additional products and services. The key point for us in this was that it was remarkably easy for us to introduce additional capabilities because of the solid technical and architectural foundation. We're very fast. Our financial model enables us to do and go after the data protection market efficiently, and we're seeing this in the field. >> So Neville help us, paint a picture for us. You've got a long history in the data protection market. You were involved in disrupting tape, you've been a consultant in this space working with customers. What's the market sort of look like, the sort of available market for you guys? >> So when Jacob refers to the expansion into data protection, we took this technology as Jacob describes the InfiniBox, and we didn't just expand in one direction. We expanded in two directions, multi-direct, with the introduction of of InfiniSync, which is a means by which critical applications can enable a recovery point of zero, Jacob will go into more details on that. And then at the other end of the spectrum, we deliver a deploying InfiniGuard. Based on the same technology that Jacob described as the core, we're now able to be the target of factual re-enter, the typical grandfather/father/son, every 24-hours you do a backup, you do an incremental. And with deduplication as a front end to the core storage, now we've got a coverage across a data protection spectrum that nobody else can match. Recovery point of zero, leveraging replication technologies that Jacob will expand upon in a minute, Snap technology internal to InfiniBox, integrated with backup applications such as the dash-board management is all consistent, and then further down the spectrum, the InfiniGuard itself, dealing with the traditional kind of data protection schemes. A complete spectrum coverage. Nobody else can deliver it. Built on that technology core to the InfinityBox storage itself. >> So you got the full pyramid covered with the same fundamental architecture. But Jacob, you can't just throw the Box at data protection, you have to bring in other features, you got to be best of breed. So maybe you can talk a little bit about, double-click on some of those. >> Sure. So it all starts with kind of base foundation for our data protection that is InfiniSnaps. It's our snapshot core engine which from day one, we designed to work at multi-petabyte scale, and for us what that means is that you need to support hundred-thousands of snapshots and up to multiple millions. That's by design how we designed the system. But not only that, you have to have zero impact on performance. If you look at our systems in the field, our customers are doing thousands of snapshots per day. Some are doing tens of thousands or more per day with no performance impact, that's not even measurable on any of their performance graphs. This is the foundational technology on which we have built our forward looking additional data protection technologies. So, if we look upper in the pyramid of overall solutions for data protection, after that we introduce our asynchronous replication which is based on that snapshot technology for us. The reason we had such an efficient and groundbreaking snapshot technology, enables us to do the lowest RPO protection for async replication when comparing to any storage product on the market. We're talking about four seconds RPO, and this is something that no other vendor was able to do, because snapshots break at that pace. It's very hard to create and delete snapshots at scale at a such a short interval. >> Without performance degradation. >> Exactly, exactly. We were able to do this. And this is kind of one example of how our early days architectural planning and investment in our product architecture pays off year after year with every new feature. That's why it seems easy for now when we release features quickly, because we have such a solid technical foundation. >> One of the things that I was really fascinated by, was your purchase of Axxana. And how have you been able to use that to get this RTO zero, that you're claiming on that? I mean if you look at the marketplace at the moment, it seems to be that the storage vendors in general are owning this whole space of RTO, lower-RTO's, et cetera. >> That's a great question, but before we get into details about that I want to cover a kind of foundational technology for that, that enabled us to do this. And that is our synchronous replication within InfiniBox already. Which is also built on top of our async, which in turn, built on top of our snapshots. With our synchronous replication within InfiniBox, we're delivering the lowest possible latency for sync replication today. Just to give you an example of how low and how efficient that is, systems that are running synchronous replication on top of InfiniBox are having lower latency than a single all-flash array writing locally. Just imagine what it means. We're able to do the round trip right to another array, and complete the whole work faster than you'll have an all-flash array, a typical all-flash array doing. Now that foundational technology also is a key part of our InfiniSync implementation. Because what we did, we took a great product which comes from Axxana, which is the hardened black box, capable of withstanding any type of disaster, fire, floods, earthquake, whatever. And we essentially integrated it very closely with InfiniBox sync replication, where we're writing this very efficient low-latency sync operations to our InfiniSync appliance, and essentially enabling RPO zero over in the distance. So if you look at it from the heart things perspective which is the data path, we had existing capability, which is our sync replication within the array. We just had to integrate it with another great product, Axxana, and that essentially was more than anything an integration work rather than from scratch development. Because again, this is part of our philosophy, we plan ahead as far a our product, road map, and strategy, and when you lay out the foundation early on, you get to the point where some things look easy, because they were pre-made and prepared early on. >> So that's the tip of the pyramid. For those mission critical applications where you need RPO zero, you've now enabled customers to do that for much lower cost than let's say for instance, the three site data center. >> Yep. >> What about the sort of fat middle, Neville, of data protection, I think you guys call it InfiniGuard. Right? That's kind of your solution there. >> So InfiniGuard simply is InfiniBox storage, with all of it's resiliency and performance, and algorithms that outperform typical arrays, and in front of that we've integrated deduplication engines. These deduplication engines present themselves as targets to the traditional backup ecosystem, receive data, de-duplicate it, and use the resources of InfiniBox storage integrated into the InfiniGuard. And, it's been received well, because its ability to deliver aggressive recovery time objectives, because of its performance in terms of resource speeds. The traditional systems that have been designed ten or fifteen years ago were okay at doing backups, they were purposely built for backup processes. They suffer greatly as a byproduct of the process of deduplication, and the IO profile that that generates. InfiniGuard breaks through that, because of its performance in the underlying storage, in order to drive RTO's, for the recovery of those files that are under the 24-hour sort of data protection cycle. And the customers are receiving it well. They are amazed at the performance, the reliability, and the simplicity within which that fits into the existing ecosystem. So it completes. InfiniSync, InfiniGuard, with InfiniBox at the core in the middle. >> And so you partner with the backup software vendors. >> Of course. >> You're not writing your own backup software, right? >> No no no. So integration, Veeam, the ConVals, the Veritas OST's, et cetera. A little further integration when it comes to InfiniBox Snap technology. That is integrated into backup applications such as ConVal or Veeam. Specifically, you can use their dashboard and their scheduling scheme to trigger the snap that then is taken care of in InfiniBox. So, it's quite a comprehensive deliverable against the whole data protection paradigm. >> And have you made a cloud of that now? With your new service? >> Not yet, but as Jacob said, there's the vision, we are always building strategically, slightly ahead of the curve. So you can imagine that that's not lost on the radar screen. >> Right. >> I see this as a return on asset play. In other words, I've got the architecture, I've got my processes and procedures in place, I don't have to go out and buy a purpose built appliance for data protection now, I can use the asset that's on my floor, that people are trained on, what are your thoughts? >> Absolutely, it seems to me that you have, uh simplified tremendously, all of those previous steps, that took one to another to another, and put them all in the same box, and used the same technologies, to achieve much better end to end results. I think it's excellent. >> You're absolutely correct, and it's deliverable in a timely fashion, because the foundation is so strong. The investment that we made from day one, to make sure that that storage architecture was able to deliver the storage services at the right cost point, at the right resiliency, at the right performance levels, is the means by which we're able to accomplish that. No one else can do it. >> And there's another arc to this story. That we're constantly, we're continually investing into that foundation. Every, our customers, the one unique thing that they experience with us, is that their systems get better every time, every release that we have, every month they get better. Not only on performance, which is obvious, in that our systems are improving all the time. >> As opposed to the normal expectation is that >> Yes. >> as you fill it up it gets worse. >> Yeah. We are actually delivering the opposite. Our customers that are buying the system today, know that, the ones that experienced InfiniBox, know that it will become better over time. And that expands the whole spectrum. It's performance, it's reliability, but it also futures it. All of the things that we discussed here, were delivered free of charge through our software upgrade to our existing InfiniBox customers. And, without disclosing something specific looking forward, there are many more things in that area coming up pretty soon from us. >> Very innovative. You guys always solve problems differently, cutting against the conventional wisdom. You see, VMworld, a lot of glam. A lot of big market. And you guys, I was at your customer dinner the other night. A lot of happy customers. A very intimate event. And a lot of good belly to belly conversations. So congratulations. Final thoughts from each of you on VMworld 2018, the future of Infinidat, anything you want to share with us? Go ahead, Neville. >> Good show, the clients, the prospects that I've spoken to here, they get to open their minds in terms of our solution-offering, and it's generated a lot of interest, and it's going to be a good remainder of the year and a good 2019. >> Great, Jacob, final words from you. >> I agree as well. And we're, I'm seeing customers that are actually reaching out to new prospects for us, and telling the story of Infinidat, and that's catching on. And it's great to see that. >> Jacob, Neville, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. Bringing you all the action from VMworld 2018, I'm Dave Vellante, for David Floyer. You're watching theCUBE, and we'll be right back after this short break. (light electronic music)

>> Narrator: From Las Vegas, it's The Cube. Covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to IBM Think, everybody. My name's Dave Vallante, I'm here with Peter Burris. You're watching The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. This is our day three. We're wrapping up wall to wall coverage of IBM's inaugural Think Conference. Thirty or forty thousand people, too many people to count, I've been joking all week. Sam Werner is here, he's the VP of Offering Management for Software Defined Storage, Sam, good to see you again. And Steve Kenniston is joining him otherwise known as the storage alchemist. Steven, great to see you again. >> Steven: Thanks, Dave. >> Dave: Alright, Sam. Let's get right into it. >> Sam: Alright. >> Dave: What is the state of data protection today and what's IBM's point of view? >> Sam: Well, I think anybody who's been following the conference and saw Jenny's key note, which was fantastic, I think you walked away knowing how important data is in the future, right? The way you get a competitive edge is to unlock insights from data. So if data's so important you got to be able to protect that data, but you're forced to protect all this data. It's very expensive to back up all this data. You have to do it. You got to keep it safe. How can you actually use that back-up data to, you know, perform analytics and gain some insights of that data that's sitting still behind the scenes. So that's what it's really all about. It's about making sure your data's safe, you're not going to lose it, that big big competitive advantage you have and that data, this is the year of the incumbent because the incumbent can start unlocking valuable data, so - >> Dave: So, Steve, we've talked about this many times. We've talked about the state of data protection, the challenges of sort of bolting on data protection as an afterthought. The sort of one size fits all problem, where you're either under protected or spending too much and being over protected, so have we solved that problem? You know, what is next generation data protection? What does it look like? >> [Steve} Yeah, I think that's a great Question, Dave. I think what you end up seeing a lot of... (audio cuts out) We talk at IBM about the modernize and transform, a lot. Right? And what I've started to try to do is boil it down almost at a product level. WhY - or at least an industry level - why modernize your data protection environment, right? Well if you look at a lot of the new technologies that are out there, costs have come way down, right? Performance is way up. And by performance around data protection we talk RPO's and RTO's. Management has become a lot simpler, a lot of design thinking put in the interfaces, making the Op Ec's job a lot easier around protecting information. A lot of the newer technologies are connected to the cloud, right? A lot simpler. And then you also have the ability to do what Sam just mentioned, which is unlock, now unlock that business value, right? How do I take the data that I'm protecting, and we talk a lot about data reuse and how do I use that data for multiple business purposes. And kind of unhinge the IT organization from being the people that stumble in trying to provide that data out there to the line of business but actually automate that a little bit more with some of the new solutions. So, that's what it means to me for a next generation protection environment. >> Dave: So it used to be this sort of, okay, I got an application, I got to install it on a server - we were talking about this earlier - get a database, put some middleware on - uh! Oh, yeah! I got to back it up. And then you had sort of these silos emerge. Virtualization came in, that obviously change the whole back up paradigm. Now you've got the cloud. What do you guys, what's your point of view on Cloud, everybody's going after this multi-cloud thing, protecting SAS data on prem, hybrid, off-prem, what are you guys doing there? >> Sam: So, uh, and I believe you spoke to Ed Walsh earlier this we very much believe in the multi-cloud strategy. We are very excited on Monday to go live with a Spectrum Protect Plus on IBM's cloud, so it's now available to back up workloads on IBM Cloud. And what's even more exciting about it is if you're running Spectrum Protect Plus on premises, you can actually replicate that data to the version running in the IBM cloud. So now you have the ability not only to back up your data to IBM cloud, back up your data IN IBM cloud where you're running applications there, but also be able to migrate work loads back and forth using this capability. And our plan is to continue to expand that to other clouds following our multi-cloud strategy. >> Dave: What's the plus? >> Sam: Laughs >> Dave: Why the plus? >> Kevin: That's the magic thing, they can't tell you. >> Group: (laughing) >> Dave: It's like AI, it's a black box. >> Sam: Well, I will answer that question seriously, though. IBM's been a leader in data protection for many years. We've been in the Gardeners Leaders Quadrant for 11 years straight with Spectrum Protect, and Spectrum Protect Plus is and extension of that, bringing this new modern approach to back up so it extends the value of our core capability, which you know, enterprises all over the world are using today to keep their data safe. So it's what we do so well, plus more! (laughing) >> Dave: Plus more! - [Sam] Plus more. >> Dave: So, Steve, I wonder if you could talk about the heat in the data protection space, we were at VM World last year, I mean, it was, that was all the buzz. I mean, it was probably the most trafficked booth area, you see tons of VC money that have poured in several years ago that's starting to take shape. It seems like some of these upstarts are taking share, growing, you know, a lot of money in, big valuations, um, what are your thoughts on What's that trend? What's happening there? How do you guys compete with these upstarts? >> Steve: Yeah, so I think that is another really good question. So I think even Ed talks a little bit about a third of the technology money in 2017 went to data protection, so there's a lot of money being poured in. There's a lot of interest, a lot of renewed interest in it. I think what you're seeing, because it cut - it's now from that next generation topic we just talked about, it's now evolving. And that evolution is it's not, it's no longer just about back up. It's about data reuse, data access, and the ability to extract value from that data. Now all of a sudden, if you're doing data protection right, you're backing up a hundred percent of your data. So somewhere in the repository, all my data is sitting. Now, what are the tools I can use to extract the value of that data. So there used to be a lot of different point products, and now what folks are saying is, well now, look, I'm already backing it up and putting it in this data silo, so to speak. How do I get the value out of it? And so, what we've done with Plus, and why we've kind of leap frogged ourselves here with - from going from Protect to Protect Plus, is to be able to now take that repository - what we're seeing from customers is there's a definitely a need for back up, but now we're seeing customers lead with this operational recovery. I want operational recovery and I want data access. So now, what Spectrum Protect Plus does is provides that access. We can do automation, we can provide self service, it's all rest API driven, and then what we still do is we can off load that data to Spectrum Protect, our great product, and then what ends up happening is the long term retention capabilities about corporate compliance or corporate governance, I have that, I'm protecting my business, I feel safe, but now I'm actually getting a lot more value out of that silo of data now. >> Peter: Well, one of the challenges, especially as we start moving into an AI analytics world, is that it's becoming increasingly clear that backing up the data, a hundred percent of the data, may not be capturing all of the value because we're increasingly creating new models, new relationships amongst data that aren't necessarily defined by an application. They're transient, then temporal, they're, they come up they come down, how does a protection plane handle, not only, you know, the data that's known, from sources that are known, but also identifying patterns of how data relationships are being created, staging it to the appropriate place, it seems as though this is going to become an increasingly important feature of any protection scheme? >> Steve: I think, I think a lot - you bring up a good topic here - I think a lot of the new protection solutions that are all rest API driven now have the capability to actually reach out to these other API's, and of course we have our whole Watson platform, our analytics platform that can now analyze that information, but the core part, and the reason why I think - back to your previous question about this investment in some of these newer technologies, the legacy technologies didn't have the metadata plane, for example, the catalog. Of course you had a back up catalog , but did you have an intelligent back up catalog. With the Spectrum Protect Plus catalog, we now have all of this metadata information about the data that you're backing up. Now if I create a snapshot, or reuse situation where to your point being, I want to spin something back up, that catalog keeps track of it now. We have full knowledge of what's going. You might not have chosen to again back that new snap up, but we know it's out there. Now we can understand how people are using the data, what are they using the data for, what is the longevity of how we need to keep that data? Now all of a sudden there's a lot more intelligence in the back up and again to your earlier question, I think that's why there's this renewed interest in kind of the evolution. >> Dave: Well, they say at this point you really can't do that multi-cloud without that capability. I wanted to ask you about something else, because you basically put forth this scenario or premise that it's not just about back up, it's not just about insurance, my words, there's other value that you could extract. Um, I want to bring up ransomware. Everybody talks about air gaps - David Foyer brings that up a lot and then I watch, like certain shows like, I don't know if you saw the Zero Days documentary where they said, you know, we laugh at air gaps, like, oh! Really? Yeah, we get through air gaps, no problem. You know, I'm sure they put physical humans in and they're going to infect. So, so there's - the point I'm getting to is there's other ways to protect against ransomware, and part of that is analytics around the data and all the data's - in theory anyway - in the backup store. So, what's going on with ransomware, how are you guys approaching that problem, where do analytics fit? You know, a big chewy question, but, have at it. >> Sam: Yeah, no I'm actually very glad you asked that question. We just actually released a new version of our core Spectrum Protect product and we actually introduced ransomware detection. So if you think about it, we bring in all of your data constantly, we do change block updates, so every time you change files it updates our database, and we can actually detect things that have changed in the pattern. So for example, if you're D-Dup rate starts going down, we can't D-Dup data that's encrypted. So if all of a sudden the rate of D-Duplication starts going down that would indicate the data's starting to be encrypted, and we'll actually alert the user that something's happening. Another example would be, all the sudden a significant amount of changes start happening to a data set, much higher than the normal rate of change, we will alert a user. It doesn't have to be ransomware, it could be ransomware. It could be some other kind of malicious activity, it could be an employee doing something they shouldn't be - accessing data that's not supposed to be accessed. So we'll alert the users. So this kind of intelligence, uh, you know is what we'll continue to try to build in. IBM's the leader in analytics, and we're bringing those skills and applying it to all of our different software. >> Dave: Oh, okay. You're inspecting that corpus of backup data, looking for anomalus behavior, you're say you're bringing in IBM analytics and also presumably some security capabilities from IBM, is that right? >> Sam: That's right. Absolutely. We work very closely with our security team to ensure that all the solutions we provide tie in very well with the rest of our capabilities at IBM. One other thing though, I'll mention is our cloud object storage, getting a little bit away from our backup software for a second, but object storage is used often - >> Kevin: But it's exciting! >> Sam: It is exciting! It's one of my favorite parts of the portfolio. It's a place where a lot of people are storing backup and archive data and we recently introduced worm capability, which mean Write Once Read Many. So once it's been written it can't be changed. It's usually used for compliance purposes but it's also being used as an air gap capability. If the data can't be changed, then essentially it can't be you know encrypted or attacked by ransomware. And we have certification on this as well, so we're SEC compliant, we can be used in regulated industries, so as we're able to in our data protection software off load data into a object store, which we have the capability, you can actually give it this worm protection, so that you know your backup data is always safe and can always be recovered. We can still do this live detection, and we can also ensure your backup is safe. >> Dave: That's great. I'm glad to hear that, cause I feel like in the old days, that I asked you that question about ransomware, and well, we're working on that - and two years later you've come up with a solution. What's the vibe inside of IBM in the storage group? I mean it seems like there's this renewed energy, obviously growth helps, it's like winning, you know, brings in the fans, but, what's your take Steve? And I'll close with Sam. >> Steve: I would almost want to ask you the same question. You've been interviewing a lot of the folks from the storage division that have come up here today and talked to you. I mean you must hear the enthusiasm and the excitement. Right? >> Dave: Yeah, definitely. People are pumped up. >> Steve: And I've rejoined IBM, Sam has rejoined IBM, right? And I think what we're finding inside is there used to be a lot of this, eh yeah, we'll eventually get there. In other words, it's like you said, next year, next year. Next, next quarter. Next third quarter, right? And now its, how do we get it done? People are excited, they want to, they see all the changes going on, we've done a lot to - I don't want to say sort out the portfolio, I think the portfolio's always been good - but now there's like a clean crisp clear story around the portfolio, how they fit together, why they're supposed to - and people are rallying behind that. And we're seeing customer - we're voted by IDCE, number one in the storage software business this year. I think people are really getting behind, you want to work for a winning team, and we're winning and people are getting excited about it. >> Dave: Yeah, I think there's a sense of urgency, a little startup mojo, it's back. So, love that, but Sam I'll give you the last word, before we wrap. Just on Think? Just on the Market? >> Sam: I got to tell you, Think has been crazy. It's been a lot of fun so far. I got to tell you, I have never seen so much excitement around our storage portfolio from customers. These were the easiest customer discussions I've ever had at one of these conferences, so they're really excited about what they're doing and they're excited about the direction we're moving in. So, yeah. >> Dave: Guy, awesome seeing you. Thanks for coming back on The Cube, both of you, and, uh, really a pleasure. Alright. Thank you for watching. Uh, this is a wrap from IBM Think 2018. Guys, thanks for helping us close that up. Peter, thank you for helping - >> Peter: Absolutely. >> Dave: me co-host this week. John Furie was unbelievable with the pop up cube, really phenomenal job, John and the crew. Guys, great great job. Really appreciate you guys coming in from wherever you were Puerto Rico or the Bahamas, I can't keep track of you anymore. Go to siliconangle.com, check out all the news. TheCube.net is where all these videos will be and wikibon.com for all the research, which Peter's group has been doing great work there. We're out! We'll see you next time. (lively tech music)

>> Announcer: From the SiliconANGLE Media office, in Boston Massachusetts, it's The Cube! Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hi everybody! My name is Dave Vellante. Welcome to this special presentation on The Cube. Infinidat is a company that we've been following since it's early days. A hot storage company, growing like crazy, doing things differently than most storage companies. We've basically been doubling revenues every year for quite some time now. And Brian Carmody is here to help me kick off this announcement and the presentation today. Brian, thanks for coming back on. >> Hey Dave, thanks for having me. >> So, you may have noticed we have a crowd chat going on live. It's crowdchat.net/Infinichat. You can ask any question you want, it's an ask me anything chat about this announcement. This is a bi-coastal program that we're running today between here and our offices in Palo Alto. So, Brian let's get into it. Give us the update on Infinidat. >> Things are going very well at Infinidat. We're just coming out of our 17th consecutive quarter of revenue growth, so we have a healthy, sustainable, profitable business. We have happy, loyal customers. 71% of our revenue in 2017 came from existing customers that were increasing their investment in our technologies. We're delighted by that. And we have surpassed three exabytes of customer deployments. So, things are wonderful. >> And you've done this essentially as a one product company. Is that correct? Yes, so going back to our first sale in the summer of 2013, that growth has been on the back of a single product, InfiniBox, targeted at primary storage. >> Okay, so what's inside of InfiniBox? Tell me about some of the innovations. In speaking to some of your customers, and I've spoken to a number of them, they tell me that one of the things they like, is that from early on, I think serial number 0001, they can take advantage of any innovations that you've produced within that product, is that right? >> Yeah, exactly, so InfiniBox is a software product. It has dumb hardware, dumb commodity hardware, and it has it has very smart intelligent software. This allows us to kind of break from this forklift upgrade model, and move to a model where the product gets better over time. So if you look at the history of InfiniBox going back to the beginning, with each successive release of our software, latency goes down, new features are added, and capacity increases become available. And this is the difference between the software versus a hardware based innovation model. >> One of the interesting things I'll note about Infinidat is you're doing software defined, you don't really use that terminology, it's the buzzword in the industry. The other buzzword is artificial intelligence, machine learning. You're actually using machine intelligence, You and I have talked about this before, to optimize the placement of data that allows you to use much less expensive media than some of the other guys, and deliver more value to customers. Can you talk about that a little bit? >> Yeah, absolutely, and by the way the reason why that is is because we're an engineering company, not a marketing company, so we prefer just doing things rather than talking about them. So InfiniBox is the first expression of a set of fundamental technologies of our technology platform, and the first piece of that is what you're talking about. It's called NeuroCache. And it's our ML and AI infrastructure for learning customer workloads and using that insight in real time to optimize data placement. And the end result of this is driving cost out of storage infrastructure and driving up performance. That's the first piece. That's NeuroCache. The second piece of our technology foundations is INFINISNAP. So this is our snapshot mechanism that allows infinite, lock-free, copy data management with absolutely no performance impact. So that's the second. And then the third is INFINIRAID and our Raz platform. So this is our distributed raid architecture that allows us to have multi pedibytes scale, extremely high durability, but also have extremely high availability of the services and that what enables our seven nines reliability guarantee. Those things together are the basis of our products. >> Okay, so sort of, we're here today and now what's exciting is that you're expanding beyond just the one product company into a portfolio of products, so sort of take us through what you're announcing today. >> Yeah so this is a really exciting day, and it's a milestone for Infinidat because InfiniBox now has some brothers and sisters in the family. The first thing that we are announcing is a new F Series InfiniBox model which we call F6212. So this is the same feature set, it's the same software, it's the same everything as its smaller InfiniBox models, but it is extremely high capacity. It's our largest InfiniBox. It's 8.3 pedibytes of capacity in that same F6000 form factor. So that's number one. Numnber two, we're announcing a product called InfiniGuard. InfiniGuard is pedibytes scale, data protection, with lightening-fast restores. The third thing that we're announcing, is a new product called InfiniSync. InfiniSync is a revolutionary business continuity appliance that allows synchronous RPO zero replication over infinite distances. It's the first ever in this category. And then the fourth and final thing that we're announcing is a product called Neutrix Cloud. Neutrix Cloud is sovereign storage that enable real-time competition between public cloud providers. The ultimate in agility, which is the ability to go polycloud. And that's the content of the portfolio announcement. >> Excellent, okay, great! Thanks, Brian, for helping us set that up. The program today, as you say, there's a cloud chat going on. Crowdchat.net/infinichat. Ask any question that you want. We're going to cover all these announcements today. InfiniSync is the next segment that's up. Dr. Ricco is here. We're going to do a quick switch and I'll be interviewing doc, and then we're going to kick it over to our studio in Palo Alto to talk about InfiniGuard, which is essentially, what was happening, Infinidat customers were using InfiniBox as a back-up target, and then asked Infinidat, "Hey, can you actually make this a product and start "partnering with software companies, "back-up software companies, and making it a robust, "back-up and recovery solution?" And then MultiCloud, is one of the hottest topics going, really interested to hear more about that. And then we're going to bring on Eric Burgener from IDC to get the analyst perspective, that's also going to be on the West coast and then Brian and I are come back, and wrap up, and then we're going to dive in to the crowd chat. So, keep it right there everybody, we'll be back with Dr. Ricco, right after this short break. >> Narrator: InfiniBox was created to help solve one of the biggest data challenges in existence, the mapping of the human geno. Today InfiniBox is enabling the competitive business processes of some of the most dynamic companies in the world. It is the apex product of generations of technology, and lifetimes of engineering innovation. It's a system with seven nines of reliability making it the most available storage solution in the market InfiniBox is both powerful and simple to use. InfiniBox will transform how you experience your data. It is so intuitive, it will inform you about potential problems, and take corrective action before they happen. This is InfiniBox. This is confidence. >> We're back with Dr. Ricco, who's the CMO of Infinidat. Doc, welcome! >> Thank you, Dave. >> I've got to ask you, we've known each for a long time. >> We have. >> Chief Marketing Officer, you're an engineer. >> I am. >> Explain that please. >> Yeah, I have a PhD in engineering and I have 14 patents in the storage industry from my prior job, Infinidat is an unconventional company, and we're using technology to solve problems in an unconventional way. >> Well, congratulations. >> Dr. Ricco: Thank you. >> It's great to have you back on The Cube. Okay, InfiniSync, I'm very excited about this solution, want to understand it better. What is InfiniSync. >> Well, Dave, before we talk about InfiniSync directly, let's expand on what Brian talked about is the foundation technologies of Infinidat and the InfiniBox. In the InfiniBox we provide InfiniSnap, which is a near zero performance impact to the application with near zero overhead, just of course the incremental data that you write to it. We also provide async and we provide syncronous replication. Our async replication provides all that zero overhead that we talked about in InfiniSnap with a four-second interval. We can replicate data four seconds apart, nearly a four second RPO, recovery point objective. And our sync technology is built on all of that as well. We provide the lowest overhead, the lowest latency in the industry at only 400 microseconds, which provides an RPO of zero, with near zero performance impact application as well, which is exciting. But syncronis replication, for those applications while there's values to that, and by the way all of the technology I just talked about, is just as Brian said, it's zero additional cost to the customer with Infinidat. There are some exciting business cases why you'd use any of those technologies, but if you're in a disaster-recovery mode and you do need an RPO of zero, you need to recognize that disasters happen not just locally, not just within your facility, they happen in a larger scale regionally. So you need to locate your disaster recovery centers somewhere else, and when you do that, you're providing additional and additional performance overhead just replicating the data over distance. You're providing additional cost and you're providing additional complexity. So what we're providing is InfiniSync and InfiniSync extends the customer's ability to provide business continuity over long distances at an RPO of zero. >> Okay, so talk more about this. So, you're essentially putting in a hardened box on site and you're copying data synchronously to that, and then you're asynchronously going to distance. Is that correct? >> Yes, and in a traditional sense what a normal solution would do, is you would implement a multi-site or a multi-hop type of topology. You build out a bunker site, you'd put another box there, another storage unit there, you'd replicate synchronously to that, and you would either replicate asynchronously from there to a disaster recovery site, or you'd replicate from your initial primary source storage device to your disaster recovery site which would be a long distance away. The problem with that of course is complexity and management, the additional cost and overhead, the additional communications requirements. And, you're not necessarily guaranteeing an RPO of zero, depending upon the type of outage. So, what we're doing is we're providing in essence that bunker, by providing the InfiniSync black box which you can put right next to your InfiniBox. The synchronous replication happens behind the scenes, right there, and the asynchronous replication will happen automatically to your remote disaster recovery site. The performance that we provide is exceptional. In fact, the performance overhead of a right-to-earn InfiniSync black box is less than the right latency to your average all flasher right. And then, we have that protected, from any man-made or natural disaster, fire, explosion, earthquake, power outages, which of course you can protect with generators, but you can't protect from a communications outage, and we'll protect from a communications outage as well. So the asynchronous communication would use your wide area communications, it can use any other type of wifi communications, or if you lose all of that, it will communicate celluarly. >> So the problem you're solving is eliminating the trade-off, if I understand it. Previously, I would have to either put in a bunker site which is super expensive, I got to a huge telecommunications cost, and just a complicated infrastructure, or I would have to expose myself to a RPO nowhere close to zero, expose myself to data loss. Is that right? >> Correct. We're solving a performance problem because your performance overhead is extremely low. We're solving a complexity problem because you don't have to worry about managing that third location. You don't have to worry about the complexity of keeping three copies of your data in sync, we're solving the risk by protecting against any natural or man-made disaster, and we're significantly improving the cost. >> Let's talk about the business case for a moment, if we can. So, I got to buy this system from you, so there's a cost in, but I don't have to buy a bunker site, I don't have to rent, lease, buy staff, et cetera, I don't have to pay for the telecommunications lines, yet I get the same or actually even better RPO? >> You'll get an RPO of zero which is better than the worse case scenario in a bunker, and even if we lose your telecommunications you can still maintain an RPO of zero, again because of the cellular back-up or in the absolute worse case, you can take the InfiniSync black box to your remote location, plug it in, and it will synchronize automatically. >> And I can buy this today? >> You can buy it today and you can buy it today at a cost that will be less than a telecommunications equipment and subscriptions that you need at a bunker site. >> Excellent, well great. I'm really excited to see how this product goes in the market place. Congratulations on getting it out and good luck with it. >> Thank you, Dave. >> You're welcome, alright, now we're going to cut over to Peter Burris in Palo Alto with The Cube Studios there, and we're going to hear about InfiniGuard, which is an interesting solution. Infinidat customers were actually using InfiniBox as a back-up target, so they went to Infinidat and said, "Hey can you make this a back-up and recovery "solution and partner with back-up software companies." We're going to talk about MultiCloud, it's one of the hottest topics in the business, want to learn more about that, and then Eric Burgener from IDC is coming in to give us the analyst perspective, and then back here to back here to wrap up with Brian Carmody. Over to you, Peter. >> Thanks, Dave I'm Peter Burris and I'm here in our Palo Alto, The Cube studios, and I'm being joined here by Bob Cancilla, who's the Executive Vice President of Business Development and Relationships, and Neville Yates, who's a Business Continuity Consultant. Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here on The Cube with us. >> Thanks, Peter, thanks for being here. >> So, there is a lot of conversation about digital business and the role that data plays in it. From our perspective, we have a relatively simple way of thinking about these things, and we think that the difference between a business and digital business is the role the data plays in the digital business. A business gets more digital as it uses it's data differently. Specifically it's data assets, which means that the thinking inside business has to change from data protection or asset or server protection, or network protection to truly digital business protection. What do you guys say? >> Sure we're seeing the same thing, as you're saying there Peter. In fact, our customers have asked us to spread our influence in their data protection. We have been evaluating ways to expand our business, to expand our influence in the industry, and they came back and told us, if we wanted to help them the best way that we could help them is to go on and take on the high-end back-up and recovery solutions where there really is one major player in the market today. Effectively, a monopoly. Our customers' words, not our own. At the same time, our product management team was looking into ways of expanding our influence as well, and they strongly believed and convinced me, convinced us, our leadership team within side of Infinidat to enter into the secondary storage market. And it was very clear that we could build upon the foundation, the pillars of what we've done on the primary storage side and the innovations that we brought to the market there. Things around or multiple pedibyte scale, with incredible density, faster than flash performance, the extreme ease of use and lowering the total cost of operation at the enterprise client. >> So, I want to turn that into some numbers. We've done some research here now at Wikibon that suggests that a typical Fortune 1000 company, because of brittle and complex restore processes specifically, too many cooks involved, a focus on not the data but on devices, means that there's a lot of failure that happens especially during restore processes, and that can cause, again a typical Fortune 1000 company, 1.25 plus billion dollars revenue over a four year period. What do you say as you think about business continuity for some of these emerging and evolving companies? >> That translates into time is money. And if you need to recover data in support of revenue-generating operations and applications, you've got to have that data come back to be productively usable. What we do with InfiniGuard is ensure that those recovery time objectives are met in support of that business application and it is the leveraging of the pillars that Bob talked about in terms of performance, the way we are unbelievable custodians of data, and then we're able to deliver that data back faster than what people expect. They're used today to mediocrity. It takes too long. I was with a customer two weeks ago. We were backing up a three terabyte data base. This is not a big amount of data. It takes about half and hour. We would say, "Let's do a restore" and the gentleman looked at me and said, "We don't have time." I said, "No, it's a 30 minute process." This person expected it to take five and six hours. Add that up in terms of dollars per hours, what it means to that revenue-generating application, and that's where those numbers come from. >> Yeah, especially for fails because of, as you said, Bob, the lack of ease of use and the lack of simplicity. So, we're here to talk about something. What is it that we're talking about and how does it work? >> Let me tell ya, I'll cover the what it is. I'll let Nevil get into a little bit how it works. So the what it is, we built it off the building block of our InfiniBox technology. We started with our model F4260, a one pedibyte usable configuration, we integrated in stainless, deduplication engines, what we call DBEs, and a high availability topology that effectively protects up to 20 pedibytes of data. We combined that with a vast certification and openness of independent software vendors in the data protections space. We want to encourage openness, and an open ecosystem. We don't want to lock any customer out of their preferred software solution in that space. And, you can see that with the recent announcements that we've made about expanding our partnerships in this space specifically, Commvault and B. >> Well, very importantly, the idea of partnership and simplicity in these of views, you want your box, the InfiniGuard to be as high quality and productive as possible, but you don't want to force a dramatic change on how an organization works, so let's dig into some of that Nevil. How does this work in practice? >> It's very simple. We have these deduplication engines that front end the InfiniBox storage. But what is unique, because there's others ways of packaging this sort of thing, but what is unique is when the InfiniGuard gets the data, it builds knowledge of relationships of that data. Deduplication is a challenge for second tier storage systems because it is a random IO profile that has to be gathered in the fashion to sequentially feed this data back. Our knowledge-building engine, which we call NeuroCache in the InfiniBox is the means by which we understand how to gather this data in a timely fashion. >> So, NeuroCache helps essentially sustain some degree of organization of the data within the box. >> Absolutely. And there's a by-product of that organization that the ability to go and get it ahead of the ask allows us to respond to meet recovery time objectives. >> And that's where you go from five to six hours for a relatively small restore to >> To 30 minutes. >> Exactly. >> Yeah, exactly. >> By feeding the data back out to the system in a pre-organized way, the system's taking care of a lot of the randomness and therefore the time necessary to perform a restore. >> Exactly and other systems don't have that capability, and so they are six hours. >> So we're talking about a difference between 30 minutes and six hours and I also wanted very quickly, Bob, to ask you a question the last couple minutes here, you mentioned partnerships. We also want to make sure that we have a time to value equation that works for your average business. Because the box can work with a lot of different software that really is where the operations activities are defined, presumably it comes in pretty quickly and it delivers value pretty quickly. Have I got that right? >> Absolutely, so we have done a vast amount of testing, certification, demos, POCs, you name it, with all the major players out there that are in this market on the back-up software side, the data protection side of the business. All of them have commented about the better business continuity solution that we put together, in conjunction with their product as well. And, the number one feedback that comes back is, "Wow, the restore times that you guys deliver to the market "are unlike anything we've seen before." >> So, to summarize, it goes in faster, it works faster, and it scales better, so the business truly can think of itself as being protected, not just sets of data. >> Absolutely. >> Agreed. >> Alright, hey Bob Cancilla, EDP of Business Development Partnerships, Neville Yates, Business Continuity Consultant, thanks very much for being on The Cube, and we'll be right back to talk Multicloud after this short break. >> With our previous storage provider, we faced many challenges. We were growing so fast, that our storage solution wasn't able to keep up. We were having large amounts of downtime, problems with the infrastructure, problems with getting support. We needed a system that was scalable, that was cost effective, and allow our business to grow as our customers' demands were growing. We needed a product that enabled us to manage the outward provision customer workloads quickly and efficiently, be able to report on the amount of data that the customer was using. The solution better enabled us to replicate our customers' data between different geos. >> We're back. Joining me now are Gregory Touretsky and Erik Kaulberg, both senior directors at Infinidat, overseeing much of the company's portfolio. Gregory, let's talk Multicloud. It's become a default part of almost all IT strategies, but done wrong, it can generate a lot of data-related costs and risks. What's Infinidat's perspective? >> So yeah, before we go there, I will mention this phenomemon of the data gravity. So we see, as many of our customers report that, as much as amount of data grows in the organization, it becomes much harder for them to move applications and services to a different data center, or to a different oblicloud. So, the more data they accumulate, the harder it becomes to move it, and they get locked into this, so we believe that any organization deserves a way to move freely between different obliclouds or data centers, and that's the reason we are thinking about the multicloud solution and how we can provide an easy way for the companies to move between data centers. >> So, clearly there's a need to be able to optimize your costs to the benefits associated with data, Erik, as we think about this, what are some of the key considerations most enterprises have to worry about? >> The biggest one overall is the strategic nature of cloud choices. At one point, cloud was a back room, the shadow IT kind of thing. You saw some IT staff member go sign up for gmail and spread or dropbox %or things like that, but now CIOs are thinking, well, I've got to get all these cloud services under control and I'm spending a whole lot of money with one of the big two cloud providers. And so that's really the strategic rationale of why were saying, "Organizations, especially large enterprises require this kind of sovereign storage that disagregates the data from the public clouds to truly enable the possibility cloud competition as well as to truly deliver on the promise of the agility of public clouds. >> So, great conversation, but we're here to actually talk about something specifically Neutrix. Gregory, what is it? >> Sure, so Neutrix, is a completely new offering that we come with. We are not selling here any box or appliance for the customers to deploy in their data center. We're talking about a cloud service that is provided by Infinidat. >> We are building our infrastructure in a major colo, partnering with Equinix and others, we are finding data centers that are adjacent public clouds, such as AWS or Azure to ensure very low latency and high bandwidth connectivity. And then we build our infrastructure there with InfiniBox storage and networking gear that allows our customers to really use this for two main reasons. So one use case, is disaster recovery. If a customer has our storage on prem in his data center, they may use our efficient application mechanism to copy data and get second copy outside of the data center without building the second data center. So, in case of disaster, they can recover. The other use case we see is very interesting for the customers, is an ability to consume while running the application in the public cloud directly from our storage. So they can do any first mount or iSCSi mount to storage available from our cloud, and then run the application. We are also providing the capability to consume the sane file system from multiple clouds at the same time. So you may run your application both in Amazon and Microsoft clouds and still access and share the data. >> Sounds like it's also an opportunity to simplify ramping into a cloud as well. Is that one of the use cases? >> Absolutely. So it's basically a combination of those two use cases that I described. The customers may replicate data from their own prem environment into the Neutrix Cloud, and then consume it from the public cloud. >> Erik, this concept has been around for a while, even if it hasn't actually been realized. What makes this in particular different? I think there's a couple of elements to it. So number one is we don't really see that there's a true enterprise grade public cloud storage offering today for active data. And so we're basically bringing in that rich heritage of InfiniBox capabilities and those technologies we've developed over a number of years to deliver an enterprise grade storage except without the box as a service. So that's a big differentiator for us versus the native public cloud storage offerings. And then when you look at the universe of other companies who are trying to develop let's say, cloud adjacent type offerings, we believe we have the right combination of that scalable technology with the correct business model that is aligned in a way that people are buying cloud today. So that's kind of the differentiation in a nutshell. >> But it's not just the box, there's also some managed servces associated with it, right? >> Well, actually, it's not a box, that's the whole idea. So, the entire thing is a consumable service, you're paying by the drink, it's a simple flat pricing of nine cents per gigabyte per month, and it's essentially as easy to consume as the native public cloud storage offerings. >> So as you look forward and imagine the role that this is going to play in conjunction with some of the other offerings, what should customers be looking to out of Neutrix, in conjunction with the rest of the portfolio. >> So basically they can get, as Erik mentioned, what they like with InfiniBox, without dealing with the box. They get fully-managed service, they get freedom of choice, they can move applications easily between different public clouds and to or from the own prem environment without thinking about the egress costs, and they can get great capabilities, great features like snapshots writeables, snapshots without overpaying to the public cloud providers. >> So, better economics, greater flexibility, better protection and de-risking of the data overall. >> Absolutely. >> At scale. >> Yes. >> Alright, great. So I want to thank very much, Gregory, Erik being here on The Cube. We'll be right back to get the analyst perspective from Eric Burgener from IDC. >> And one of our challenges of our industry as a whole, is that it operates to four nines as a level of excellence for example. And what that means is well it could be down for 30 seconds a month. I can't think of anything worse than me having me to turn around to my customers and say, "Oh, I am sorry. "We weren't available for 30 seconds." And yet most people that work in our IT industry seem to think that's acceptable, but it's not when it comes to data centers, clouds, and the sort of stuff that we're doing. So, the fundamental aspect is that can we run storage that is always available? >> Welcome back. Now we're sitting here with Eric Burgener, who is a research vice-president and the storage at IDC. Eric, you've listened to Infinidat's portfolio announcement. What do you think? >> Yeah, Peter, thanks for having me on the show. So, I've got a couple of reactions to that. I think that what they've announced is playing into a couple of major trends that we've seen in the enterprise. Number one is, as companies undergo digital transformation, efficiency of the IT operations is really a critical issue. And so, I'm seeing a couple of things in this announcement that will really play into that area. They've got a much larger, much denser platform at this point that will allow a lot more consolidation of workload, and that's sort of an area that Infinidat has focused on in the past to consolidate a lot of different workloads under one platform, so I think the efficiency of those kind of operations will increase going forward with this announcement. Another area that sort of plays into this is every organization needs multiple storage platforms to be able to meet their business requirements. And what we've seen with announcement is their basically providing multiple platforms, but that are all built around the same architecture, so that has management ease of use advantages associated with that, so that's a benefit that will potentially allow CIOs to move to a smaller number of vendors and fewer administrative skill sets, yet still meet their requirements. And I think the other area that's sort of a big issue here, is what their announcing in the hybrid cloud arena. So, clearly, enterprises are operating as hybrid clouds today, well over 70% of all organizations actually have hybrid cloud operations in place. What we've seen with this announcement, is an ability for people to leverage the full storage mnagement data set of an Infinidat platform while they leverage multiple clouds on the back end. And if they need to move between clouds they have an ability to do that with this new feature, the Neutrix cloud. And so that really breaks the lock-in that you see from a lot of cloud operations out there today that in certain cases can really limit the flexibility that a CIO has to meet their business requirements. >> Let me build on that a second. So, really what you're saying is that by not binding the data to the cloud, the business gets greater flexibility in how they're going to use the data, how they're going to apply the data, both from an applications standpoint as well as resource and cost standpoint. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean moving to the cloud is actually sort of a fluid decision that sometimes you need to move things back. We've actually seen a lot of repatriation going on, people that started in the cloud, and then as things changed they needed to move things back, or maybe they want to move to another cloud operation. They might want to move from Amazon to Google or Microsoft. What we're seeing with Neutrix Cloud is an ability basically to do that. It's breaks that lock-in. >> Great. >> They can still take advantage to those back end platforms. >> Fantastic. Eric Burgener, IDC Research Vice-President, Storage. Back to you, Dave. >> Thanks, Peter. We're back with Brian Cormody. We're going to summarize now. So we're seeing the evolution of Infinidat going from a single product company going to a portfolio company. Brian, I want to ask you to summarize. I want to start with InfiniBox, I'm also going to ask you "Is this the same software, and does it enable new use cases, or is this just bigger, better, faster?" >> Yeah, it's the same software that runs on all of our InfiniBox systems, it has the same feature set, it's completely compatible for replication and everything like that. It's just more capacity to use, 8.4 pedibytes of effective capacity. And the use cases that are pulling this into the field, are deep-learning, analytics, and IOT. >> Alright, let's go into the portfolio. I'm going to ask you, do you have a favorite child, do you have a favorite child in the portfolio. Let's start with InfiniSync. >> Sure, so I love them all equally. InfiniSync is a revolutionary appliance for banking and other highly regulated industries that have a requirement to have zero RPO, but also have protection against rolling disasters and regional disasters. Traditionally the way that that gets solved, you have a data center, say, in lower Manhatten where you do your primary computing, you do synchronous to a data bunker, say in northern New Jersey, and then you asynchronous out of region, say out to California. So, under our model with InfiniSync, it's a 450 pound, ballistically protected data bunker appliance, InfiniSync guarantees that with no data loss, and no reduction in performance, all transactions are guaranteed for delivery to the remote out-of-region site. So what this allows customers to do, is to erase data centers out of their terpology. Northern New Jersey, the bunker goes away, and customers, again in highly rated industries, like banking that have these requirements, they're going to save 10s of millions of dollars a year in cost avoidance by closing down unnecessary data centers. >> Dramatically sort of simplify their infrastructure and operations. Alright, InfiniGuardm I stumbled into it at another event, you guys hadn't announced it yet, and I was like, "Hmmm, what's this?" But tell us about InfiniGuard. >> Yeah, so InfiniGuard is a multi-pedibyte appliance that's 20 pedibytes of data protection in a single rack, in a single system, and it has 10 times the restore performance of data domain, at a fraction of the cost. >> Okay, and then the Neutrix Cloud, this is to me maybe the most interesting of all the announcements. What's your take on that? So, like I said, I love them all equally, but Neutrix Cloud for sure is the most disruptive of all the technologies that we're announcing this week. The idea of Neutrix Cloud is that it is neutral storage for consumption in the public cloud. So think about it like this. Do you think it's weird, that EBS and EFS are only compatible with Amazon coputing? And Google Cloud storage is only compatible with Google. Think about it for a second if IBM only worked with IBM servers. That's bringing us back to the 1950s and 60s. Or if EMC storage was only compatible with Dell servers, customers would never accept that, but in the Silicon Valley aligargic, wall-garden model, they can't help themselves. They just have to get your data. "And just give us your data, it'll be great. "We'll send a snowball or a truck to go pick it up." Because they know once they have your data, they have you locked in. They cannot help themselves from creating this wall-garden proprietary model. Well, like we call it a walled, prison yard. So the idea is with Neutrix Cloud, rather than your storage being weaponized as a customer to lock you in, what if they didn't get your data and what if instead you stored your data with a trusted, neutral, third party, that practices data neutrality. Because we guarantee contractually to every customer, that we will never take money and we will never shake down any of the cloud providers in order to access our Neutrix Cloud network, and we will never do side deals and partnerships with any of them to favor one cloud over the other. So the end result, you end up having for example, a couple of pedibytes of file systems, where you can have thousands of guests that have that file system mounted simultaneously from your V-Net and Azure, from your VPCs into AWS, and they all have simultaneous, screaming high performance access to one common set of your data. So by pulling and ripping your data from the arms of those public cloud providers, and instead only giving them shared common neutral access, we can now get them to start competing against each other for business. So rather than your storage being weaponized you, it's a tool that you can use to force the cloud providers to compete against each other for your business. >> So, I'm sure you guys may have a lot of questions there, hop into the crowd chat, it's crowdchat.net/infinichat. Ask me anything, ama crowdchat, Brian will be in there in a moment. I got to ask ya couple of more questions before I let you go. >> Sure. >> What was your motivation for this portfolio explansion. >> So the motivation was that at the end of the day, customers are very clear to us that they do not want to focus on their infrastructure. They want to focus on their businesses. And as their infrastructure scales, it becomes exponentially more complex to deal with issues of reliability, economics and performance. And, so we realized that if we're going to fulfill our company's mission, that we have to expand our mission, and help customers solves problems throughout more of the data lifecycle and focus on some of the pain points that extend beyond primary storage. That we have to start bringing solutions to market that help customers get to the cloud faster, and when they get there, to be more agile. And to focus on data protection, which again is a huge pain point. So the motivation at the end of the day is about helping customers do more with less. >> And the mission again, can you just summarize that, multi pedibyte? >> Yeah, the corporate mission of Infinidat is to store humanity's knowledge and to make new forms of computing possible. >> Big mission. >> Our humble mission. >> Humble, right. The reason I ask that question of your motivation, people might say, "Oh obviously, to make more money." But they're been a lot of single-product companies, feature companies that have done quite well, so in order to fulfill that mission, you really need a portfolio. What should we be watching as barometers of success? How are you guys measuring yourselves, How should we be measuring you? >> Oh I think the most fair way to do that is to measure us on successful execution of that mission, and at the end of the day, it's about helping customers compute harder and deeper on larger data sets, and to do so at lower costs than the competitor down the road, because at the end of the day, that's the only source of competitive advantage, that companies get out of their infrastructure. The better we help customers do that, the more that we consider ourselves succeeding in our mission. >> Alright, Brian, thank you, no kids but new products are kind of like giving birth. >> It's really cool. >> So hop into the crowd chat, it's an ask me anything questions. Brian will be in there, we got analysts in there, a bunch of experts as well. Brian, thanks very much. It was awesome having you on. >> Thanks, Dave. >> Thanks for watching everybody. We'll see you in the crowd chat. (upbeat digital music)

>> Narrator: From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's the CUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. (electronic pop music) >> Thanks, Peter. We're back with Brian Carmody. We're going to summarize now. So we're seeing the evolution of Infinidat going from a single-product company to a portfolio company. Brian, I'm going to ask you to summarize. I want to start with InfiniBox. I'm also going to ask you, is this the same software, and does it enable new use cases, or is it just bigger, better, faster? >> It's the same software that runs on all of our InfiniBox systems. It has the same feature set, it's completely compatible for replication and everything like that. It's just more capacity. It's 8.4 petabytes of effective capacity. The use cases that are pulling this into the field are deep learning, analytics, and IOT. >> All right, let's go into the portfolio. I'm going to ask you, it's like, "Do you have a favorite child? Do you have a favorite child in the portfolio?" Let's start with InfiniSync. >> Sure. I love them all equally. InfiniSync is a revolutionary appliance for banking and other highly-regulated industries that have a requirement to have 0 RPO but also have protection against rolling disasters and regional disasters. Traditionally, the way that that gets solved is you have a data center, say, in lower Manhattan where you do your primary computing. You do synchronous to a data bunker, say, in northern New Jersey, and then you do asynchronous out of region, say, out to California. Under our model with InfiniSync, it's a 450-pound ballistically-protected data bunker appliance. InfiniSync guarantees that with no data loss and no reduction in performance, all transactions are guaranteed for delivery to the remote, out-of-region site. What this allows customers to do is to erase data centers out of their topology. Northern New Jersey, the bunker goes away. Again, highly-regulated industries like banking that have these requirements, they're going to save tens of millions of dollars a year in cost avoidance by closing down unnecessary data centers. >> And dramatically simplify their infrastructure and operations. >> Absolutely. >> InfiniGuard, I stumbled into it at another event. You guys hadn't announced it yet. I was like, "Hmm, what's this?" Tell us about InfiniGuard. >> InfiniGuard is a multi-petabyte appliance that fits 20 petabytes of data protection in a single rack, in a single system, and it has 10 times the restore performance of data domain at a fraction of the cost. >> Okay, and then the Nutrix cloud ... This is, to me, maybe the most interesting of all the announcements. What's your take on that? >> Like I said, I love them all equally, but Nutrix cloud for sure is the most disruptive of all the technologies that we're announcing this week. The idea of Nutrix cloud is that it is neutral storage for consumption in the public cloud. So think about it like this. Don't you think it's weird that EBS and EFS are only compatible with Amazon computing and Google cloud storage is only compatible with Google? Think about it for a second. If IBM storage only worked with IBM servers, that's bringing us back to the 1950s and '60s. Or if EMC storage was only compatible with Dell servers, customers would never accept that. But in the Silicon Valley oligarchic, walled-garden model, they can't help themselves. They just have to get your data. "Just give us your data. It'll be great. We'll send a snowball or a truck to go pick it up." Because they know once they have your data, they have you locked in. They cannot help themselves from creating this walled-garden proprietary model, or like we call it, a walled prison yard. So the idea is, with Nutrix cloud, rather than your storage being weaponized against you as a customer to lock you in, what if they didn't get your data? What if instead, you stored your data with a trusted, neutral third party that practices data neutrality? Because we guarantee contractually to every customer that we will never take money, and we will never shake down any of the cloud providers in order to get access to our Nutrix cloud network, and we will never do side deals and partnerships with any of them to favor one cloud over the other. So the end result is that you end up having, for example, a couple of petabyte-scale file systems where you can have thousands of guests that have that file system mounted simultaneously from your VNet in Azure, from your VPC's in AWS, and they all have simultaneous screaming high-performance access to one common set of your data. So by pulling and ripping your data out of the arms of those public cloud providers and instead, only giving them shared, common, neutral access, we can now get them to start competing against each other for business. Rather than your storage being weaponized against you, it's a tool which you can use to force the cloud providers to compete against each other for your business. >> I'm sure you guys may have a lot of questions there. Hop into the CrowdChat. It's crowdchat.net/infinichat. Ask Me Anything, AMA CrowdChat. Brian will be in there in a moment. I got to ask a couple of questions before I let you go. >> Brian: Sure. >> What was your motivation for this portfolio expansion? >> The motivation was that at the end of the day, customers are very clear to us that they do not want to focus on their infrastructure. They want to focus on their businesses. As their infrastructure scales, it becomes exponentially more complex. They deal with issues of reliability, and economics, and performance. We realized that if we're going to fulfill our company's mission, that we have to expand our mission and help customers solve problems throughout more of the data lifecycle, and focus on some of the pain points that extend beyond primary storage. We have to start bringing solutions to market that help customers get to the cloud faster, and when they get there, to be more agile, and to focus on data protection, which, again, is a huge pain point. The motivation at the end of the day is about helping customers do more with less. >> And the mission again, can you just summarize that? Multi-petabyte, and ... ? >> The corporate mission of Infinidat is to store humanity's knowledge and to make new forms of computing possible. >> Big mission. (laughs) Okay, fantastic. >> Our humble mission, yes. >> Humble, right. The reason I asked that question of your motivation, people always say, "Oh, obviously to make more money." But there have been a lot of single-product companies or feature companies that have done quite well. In order to fulfill that mission, you really need a portfolio. What should we be watching as barometers of success? How are you guys measuring yourselves? How should we be measuring you? >> I think the most fair way to do that is to measure us on successful execution of that mission. At the end of the day, it's about helping customers compute harder and deeper on larger data sets, and to do so at lower cost than the competitor down the road. Because at the end of the day, that's the only source of competitive advantage that companies get out of their infrastructure. The better we help customers do that, the more we consider ourselves succeeding in our mission. >> All right, Brian, thank you. No kids, but new products are kind of like giving birth. Best I can say. >> I have dogs. They're like dogs. >> So hop into the CrowdChat. It's an Ask Me Anything questions. Brian will be in there, we've got analysts in there, a bunch of experts as well. Brian, thanks very much. It was awesome having you on. >> Thanks, Dave. >> Thanks for watching, everybody. See you in the CrowdChat. (electronic pop music)

>> Male Narrator: From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hey everybody, my name is Dave Vellante and welcome to this special presentation on theCUBE. Infinidat is a company that we've been following since it's early days. A hot storage company, growing like crazy, doing things differently than most storage companies. We've basically been doubling revenues every year for quite some time now. And Brian Carmody is here to help me kick off this announcement and the presentation tonight. Brian, thanks for coming back on. >> Hey Dave, thanks for having me. >> So you may notice, we have a crowd chat going on live, it's crowdchat.net/infinichat, you can ask any question you want, it's an ask-me-anything chat about this announcement. This is a bi-coastal program that we're running today between here and our offices in Palo Alto. So, Brian, let's get into it, give us the update on Infinidat. >> Things are going very well at Infinidat. We're just coming out of our 17th consecutive quarter of revenue growth, so we have a healthy, sustainable, profitable business. We have happy, loyal customers. 71% of our revenue in 2017 came from existing customers that were increasing their investment in our technologies, we're delighted by that. And we have surpassed three exabytes of customer deployments. So, things are wonderful. >> And you've done this, essentially, as a one product company, is that correct? >> Yeah, so going back to our first saddle in the summer of 2013, that growth has been on the back of a single product, InfiniBox, targeted at primary storage. >> Okay, so what's inside of InfiniBox? Tell me about some of the innovations. And speaking to some of your customers, and I've spoken to a number of them, they tell me one of the things they like is that from early on, I think serial number 0001, they can take advantage of any innovations that you produce within that product, is that right? >> Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, InfiniBox is a software product. It has dumb hardware, dumb commodity hardware and it has very smart, intelligent software. And this allows us to, kind of, break from this forklift upgrade model and move to a model where the product gets better over time. So, if you look at the history of InifiniBox, going back to the beginning, with each successive release of our software, latency goes down, new features are added, and capacity increases become available. And this is, ya know, the difference between a software versus a hardware based innovation model. >> One of the interesting things I'll note about Infinidat is, ya know, you guys, you're doing software defined, you don't really use that terminology, ya know, it's the buzzword of the industry. The other buzzword is artificial intelligence, machine learning. You're actually using machine intelligence, you have talked about this before, to optimize the placement of data that allows you to use much less expensive media than some of the other guys and deliver more value to customers. Can you talk about that a little bit? >> Yeah, absolutely. And, by the way, the reason why that is, is because we're an engineering company, not a marketing company, so we prefer just doing things rather than talking about them, but, so, InfiniBox is the first expression of a set of fundamental technologies, of our technology platform. And the first piece of that is what you're talking about, it's called neurocache, and it's our ML and AI infrastructure for learning customer workloads and using that insight in real time to optimize data placement. And the end result of this is driving cost out of storage infrastructure and driving up performance. That's the first piece, that's neurocache. The second piece of our technology foundations is InfiniSnap. So, this is our snapshot mechanism that allows infinite lock-free copy data management with absolutely no performance impact. So, that's the second. And then the third, is InfiniRaid and our RAS platform. So, this is our distributed raid architecture that allows us to have multi-petabyte scale, extremely high durability, but also have extremely high availability of the services. And that's what enables our seven nines reliability guarantee. Those things together are the basis of our products. >> Okay, so, sort of, we're here today and now what's exciting is you're expanding beyond just a one product company into a portfolio of products. So, sort of, take us through what you're announcing today. >> Yeah, so this is a really exciting day and it's a milestone for Infinidat because InfiniBox now has some brothers and sisters in the family. The first thing that we are announcing is a new F series InfiniBox model, which we call F-6212. So, this is the same feature set, it's the same software, it's the same everything as it's smaller InfiniBox models, but it is extremely high capacity, it's our largest InfiniBox, it's 8.3 petabytes of capacity in that same F-6000 form factor. So, that's number one. Number two, we're announcing a product called InfiniGuard. InfiniGuard is petabyte scale data protection with lightning fast restores. The third thing that we're announcing is a new product called InfiniSync. InfiniSync is a revolutionary business continuity appliance that allows synchronous RPO-0 replication over infinite distances. It's the first ever in this category. And then, the fourth and final thing that we're announcing is a product called NutrixCloud. NutrixCloud is sovereign storage, but enables real-time competition between public cloud providers. The ultimate in agility, which is the ability to go poly-cloud. And that's the content of the portfolio announcement. >> Excellent, okay, great. Thanks Brian, for helping us set that up. The program today, as I say, there's a crowd chat going on, crowdchat.net/infinichat, ask any question that you want. We're going to cover other's announcements today. InfiniSync is the next segment that's up. Dr. Rico is here, we're going to do a quick switch, and I'll be interviewing doc. And then we're going to kick it over to our studio in Palo Alto to talk about InfiniGuard, which is, essentially, what was happening is Infinidat customers were using InfiniBox as a backup target and then asked Infinidat, "Hey, can you actually make this a product "and start partnering with software companies, "backup software companies and, you know, "making it a robust, you know, backup "and recovery solution?" And then multi-cloud is, you know, one of the hottest topics going. Really interested to hear more about that. And then we're going to bring on Eric Burgener from IDC to get the analyst perspective, that's also going to be in the west coast. And then Brian and I are going to come back and wrap up. And then we're going to dive into the crowd chat, so keep it right there everybody. We'll be back with Dr. Rico, right after the short break. (upbeat music)