>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of you. I path live the release show brought to you by you. I path everyone. Welcome back. This is Dave Vellante for the human. We've been covering the r P a market now for quite some time. Yeah, I pastor said this huge announcement. Then we're gonna update you on the space. As you know, we've been quantifying this with our partners at ET are one of the areas that you I path is obviously focused on talking about scaling. If you wanna win in r p. A. You got a scale you want to scale. You gotta have cloud, though. Eric Metaphor is here. He's the director of product management. That you either path, We're gonna talk Cloud. Tara. Good to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. Didn't get to see you as well. >>Yes. So you know, you guys have this huge announcement. Um, there are really four major components, if you will. That you extended the core platform. You talked about more automation? More ai smarter robots. The whole end to end. When you guys talk about the what? Sometimes it gets a little buzz, wordy, but that hyper automation, it's got to be end end. You've got to take a systems view, and then you got to put the tools in the hands of regular people. If you want to have a robot for every person, it's got to be simple. You've got to democratize uh, R p A. So my question is, where does the cloud fit into all this? >>You know, the cloud is the one that wraps it all up together. So for us, it's very important to make it easy for people to start instantly. You when you when you start to decide that you want to do in investment in r P A. And you really want to get started very quickly. And the second thing is, you eventually want to grow that are being investment, and the cloud makes it super easy for you to scale out of it. So Cloud makes it easy for you to start instantly and scaling. >>You think about the cloud you know, kind of started with. I guess it's sort of started with Salesforce back in 1999 kind of pre cloud. But certainly, you know so many functions and software areas have been cloud ified. You saw it with the email. You certainly where you start with I t s m. Which was kind of a heavy lift. You certainly see it with With HR. You seen it with data protection and backup. You see, do you see r p A. Is kind of the next big wave of cloud ification. >>Well, I absolutely think that cloud is gonna be very big in our be a. So from our perspective, when you start thinking about are you really thinking about automation? You want your automation is the light up and to save you money and to cut time for you and the investment thing that's going to remind what's going through your mind is not setting up infrastructure and, you know, configuring machines and selling software to make our p possible that the cloud makes it super easy for you to just cut down that I t infrastructure investment and go right ahead into what you really care about, which is the automation. So I think it's gonna be big that we allow you to just go directly to automation. I want RB start thinking about automation for good infrastructure lead that blood. >>So there's obviously you hear a lot of narrative in the marketplace about Cloud Cloud native. You see some companies or dogmatic will never do on had Frank's loop in a little while ago. So we're not doing our friend. That's Ah, that's a halfway house. You guys have taken a different approach, obviously started on Prem and now you're moving to the cloud. What? What's your philosophy on that? You know, Why wouldn't everybody do Cloud >>makes sense. So for us, we're very pragmatic about We believe that customers are different stages in their cloud adoption. Some people are extremely cloud friendly and have already put in place at plans for making sure that everything is already in the cloud. There are companies that are cloud native. They were born in the cloud that if you go a nascent install a piece of software in the local server, they would just laugh at you. So that's on one end of the spectrum and you want to make sure that those people can take full capability of our. On the other hand, there are people who are still, you know, coming from on Prem servers who are trying to move to the cloud to have plans to move to the cloud who would like to try some components in the CLI. But they still have some legacy systems that exist on Prem or a lot of systems that exist, and we want to make sure that those people are also able to take care of our key. And on the other end of the spectrum, there are industries or some companies and some industries that just are not ready for the cloud at all. And from our perspective, we want to democratize our key. We want our P available for everyone. So it is our philosophy that we're going to give you a multitude of the women options. If you want on Prem all the way, we got it. If you want cloud all the way we got, you want the hybrid assistant, We got it. We're just going to make it possible for you. And the deployment choice is your choice >>and the experience on Prem and Cloud. It's substantially identical. Would you say it's completely identical? What? What's the Delta? >>That is absolutely one of our goals. It is absolutely a gore for Google for you. I have to make sure that if you are an on Prem customer and you are starting to use some cloud, that your experiences seamless between on premises and in the cloud if you are a cloud customer and you have some components that still exist on Prem, if you want to use them, is very important for us that you have that common experience between both. So our software is designed with a common experience of the core, and it's actually the same software that runs from a user experience perspective in the cloud and on premises. Now, obviously, a lot of the infrastructure is different than a lot of the security aspects are different. But the user experience itself is, you know, consistently the same and intentionally that way. >>So when people talk about cloud or not, this is often site, you know, several things. Clearly, Layton sees a factor. If your data lives on, you know, on Prem, maybe you want to do things on Prem. There's local laws, data sovereignty. Uh, there's there's corporate edicts. Okay, we're not going to the cloud now. Maybe with Covad, that's that's changing somewhat, but so what are you hearing from customers just in terms of the rationale on Prem versus Cloud Hybrid. What are some of the decision points? >>Those are all good points, Dave. That's exactly the kind of stuff that we hear from our customers. So I think the main things that we hear in terms of cloud is about security people rightfully. So. When you start talking about cloud that they start asking, Can I really trust you as a vendor? With my data, I'm giving you my sales data. I'm giving you my HR data. I mean, this is some confidential information. Can I really trust you with that data? So that's one thing we absolutely, I start taking care off with large focus on security, and I can definitely dive deeper into that if you want. In addition to that, privacy and data sovereignty and where data lives is a big deal. So from our perspective, we host your data as an enterprise customer in three different locations. We host demand. We have servers in the United States. We have servers in Europe. We have servers in Japan, and as a customer you get to choose where data lives and we keep it the way you thoughts s so that kind of helps with data sovereignty because some countries, as you mentioned or some cos there's mentioned really have strict rules about that. Also, that helps with the legacy aspect. So if you're a customer in Japan, you would really prefer to use our Japan Data Center as opposed to a You know, your it's simple. >>The customers care, like where your cloud infrastructure lives. Are they asking you about that? They did they? Did they probe you on that? I mean specifically in terms of your cloud partner, like maybe you could talk about that a little bit. >>Absolutely. People definitely care about who we use and where the data is going to lie. And so from our perspective, for example, we're partnered with Microsoft and all our infrastructures. They don't Microsoft Azure, and, uh, we use data centers from Microsoft Azure through the whole start stuff, and that's a really good for multiple reads as it provides some very good uptime and reliability guarantees. In addition to that, they have service around the world that we can utilize so that we can expect, for example, for a next frontier becomes for example, in Australia, New Zealand. Then we want to create a reason they're being on top of Azure really allows us to go and spend that off pretty quickly and help customers that way. >>So we don't want things about Cloud is you can you can experiment very cheaply and you can fail fast and then iterating. So one of the things that struck me about your announcement was your community edition. I always look for, you know, Is there a community edition? Is that in addition, free for life? Is it neutered? In other words, can I actually do anything with it? Um, so I was happy to see that you guys had that. And also happy to see I mean, you've got I think it's early days for you, but I think that you have 200 enterprise customers, two orders of magnitude greater than that from the community edition. Did I get that right? >>That's great. Yes, absolutely. So when you think about the automation, cloud comes into play. But we have a community, the one for community, and that is the free version. And it's as you said, it's not like a pretrial or three limited time or something. It was just free as in free, free forever. We're gonna keep it to you. That's all you need. Just use it. No questions asked. You know, be happy with it. And the community edition actually is, is a fully functional product, and it allows you to do to get to attended robots one unattended robot and you get the option of connecting up the studio to two studios for designing animations. Work with those s so it's it's it allows it. That's all your automation needs, like small automation needs. Just go ahead and use it. If you're a small company or an individual or a small team, just use the community edition and you want to use that production. That's fine. No problem. That's all you need to go for it, then the and we have tens of thousands of community customers that are actively using the product. I'm not talking about the people that have ever signed up on left. Those are a lot more than that, but I'm talking about actually actively using the product. We've got tens of thousands of users as they're using it every month and built on that same infrastructure comes our Enterprise Edition, and the Enterprise edition is a basically the same infrastructure. But it adds a number of capabilities that are useful for a larger enterprise, of course, the most important of which is an uptime guarantee. So, you know, with the community edition, obviously we keep the service. Often we have very good response times, but with enterprise, you actually get enough time guarantee. In addition to that, you get access to our sport. They have a dedicated support team that works 24 7 around the clock and multiple reasons, and you get guaranteed response times with the mass away. On top of that, you get to be able to purchase is many robots as you want, and the list goes on and on and on. And it's very easy to go. Like you said, from playing with community, working with community, using that doing a trial, it's instinct as well. You just click a button, and all of a sudden, now you have five robots that each night that you can use for 60 days, and from there you can just go ahead and buy. >>We'll talk more about the uptime guarantee is that basically Azure s l A. So the data layer on top of that, you know, what are we measuring there? You could add some color. >>Absolutely. A startup and guarantee is built on top of azure, obviously. But we provide our own uptime guarantee regardless of what happens in the underlying system. Eso From our perspective, we guarantee that the service is going to be out at a specific amount of time. So we measure the number of minutes every month that the service should actually be up. And we measure the number of ministers service experiences, any kind of downtime. And we measure down. I'm in multiple ways. So we do outside in testing. Or, you know, if you're a customer, are you able to reach our service or not that we do incredible detail the monitoring and reporting on the life off our service itself from inside and And we look at any minute, any of those the services that we use underlying services are not responding to customers, and we count those down as well. So and we guarantee that there's a specific number of minutes that the service will be down, and that's >>it. And So if I understand it, you're really taking an application. You It's not the light on the server. It's It's the it's Can I get to you as a customer? Yeah. My state, my service, your >>perspective. Are you able to reach our service and do what you're expected to do with it? That's what you as a customer, really care about and in turn, that's the right way for us to be measuring up. >>And if I don't? If you don't hit, that s L. A. What? I get re credit. So how does that >>work? Absolutely, we have in our agreements and provision for penalties on the outside, we don't hit that escalate. And similarly for support. You know, if you call support, you're guaranteed depending on the severity of the issue on the back of contract that sport. Uh, you know how many minutes it takes us for somebody to be engaged with you on that issue? And we have very good numbers and hitting. That s L. A. And if we don't? They're also penalties on the outside for that. I think this is a real enterprise services you'd expect. >>Yeah, Great. I want to get to take some examples. You've got a couple 100 customers I think you mentioned should hopefully was up and running very quickly. I think you had some other examples, but but what can you share with us in terms of actual experience that your customers have seen? >>Absolutely. So we were thinking a very measured and careful approach, actually launching our service. So even though our service literally just launched last week fully to the world, we have actually been enabling enterprise customers we've been. We started a private preview with four customers and back in April of last year. And then we extended that to a public preview for any customer to try our service, as is no payment but also no guarantees. Back in the day, I want to say June of last year and then it took us all the way to December to feel comfortable that the services of the place where when we launch it, customers are going to get an excellent quality. And that's when we did a what we call a limited availability where we started on boarding enterprise customers step by step. We started with 10. We went to 50. We went to 100 now we have a couple 100 customers that already signed up, using the enterprise product every day as a guaranteed service and getting that Sele's that we've promised. So this was the time when we said, You know what? I think we've definitely been meeting our SL A's for five months running. Now we feel very comfortable lunch the rest, >>even if it's anecdotal. Have you discerned appreciable change in people's attitude toward cloud as a result of over? >>Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, it's just the aspect of working from home and having a lot of people just not available either demand infrastructure or demand servers made. A lot of people think about what is the best way to continue to run on information while they're at it. And obviously there's nothing easier than granting access to someone in the cloud to access a service from home. Then, if you were to bring them access to an on premise service with BP and all that stuff, and then if you want the provisioning new robots and machines and you have to do that again on premises, you know it's it's it's a lot more complicated. So a lot of customers are really starting to look at the cloud so many of the conversations that we would have, obviously we come in and they would ask us about the capabilities of our system. They would ask about security that ask a lot of things and those discussions, you know, anywhere between, you know, a few days to sometimes a few months. You know, some customers is just a great for those. The volume of customers that's asking about cloud is definitely increasing good for us. Obviously the number of deals were signed exalts increasing. But most importantly, I think that the number of customers that are benefiting from the value of starting instantly like cloud scale easily in the cloud. And you mentioned the example of Chipotle. And while that was engagement that we had obviously for the core of it, you know, they were very impressed with what they were able to do with The came in and falling and team had budgeted about two weeks to get started and set up everything so that they can build on top of that in their automation. And they, they chose wisely, do start in the cloud and As a result, they were done and all set up in one day. So it is definitely a huge difference between what you're able to get in the cloud person. So what you're doing? >>Well, you have passed all about automation. And and so is the cloud. The superpowers of this decade Cloud data A You guys were, you know, at the heart of all those Eric. Thanks so much for coming on the cube in explaining sort of your cloud angle. Really Appreciate your time. >>Thank you very much, Dave. It's a pleasure to be here. >>Alright? And thank you for watching everybody. More coverage on the r p. A market analysis digging into your past recent announcement stable people want to have right back right after this short break. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

>> Live from San Francisco, it's The Cube, Covering, Google Cloud Next 2018, brought to you by, Google Cloud and it's ecosystem partners. >> Everyone, welcome back, this is The Cube, live in San Francisco for Google Cloud, big event here, called Google Next 2018, #GoogleNext18, I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, bringing down all the top stories, all the top technology news, all the stuff that they're announcing on stage, some of the executives, the product managers, customers, analysts, you name it we want to get that signal and extract it and share that with you. Our next guest is Dan here and he's the product manager for Cloud AI at Google, and dialogue flow with a hot product here under his preview. Thanks for joining us! Good to see you! >> Ah, yeah, excited to be here! >> We were bantering off camera because we love video, we love speech to text, we love all kinds of automation that can add value to someone's products rather than having to do a lot of grunt work, or not having any capabilities, so super excited about what your working on, the variety of things, this one's the biggest, dialogue flow, talk about the product. >> Sure, yeah, yeah. >> What is it? Yeah, so Dialogue Flow it's a platform for building conversational applications, conversation interfaces, so could be chatbox, it could be voicebox, and it started from the acquisition of APIAI, that we did a year and a half ago, and its been gaining a lot of momentum since then so last year at Google Cloud Next, we announced that we just crossed 150,000 developers in the Dialog Flow community, yesterday we just announced that we now crossed 600,000 and yeah its uh-- >> Hold on, back up, slow down. I think I just missed that. You had what and then turned in to what? Say it again. >> So it was a 150,000 last year or over a 150,000 and now its now its over 600,000. >> Congratulations, that's massive. >> So yeah, I-- >> That's traction! >> It's very, very exciting. >> Four X. (laughs) >> And yeah, we you know, were still seeing like a lot of strong growth and you know with the new announcements we made yesterday, we think it's going to take a much larger role, especially in larger enterprises and especially in sort of powering enterprise contact centers. >> You know, natural language processing, also know as NLP for the folks that you know, know the jargon, or don't know the jargon, its been around for a long time, there's been a series of open sores, academias done it, just, it just, ontologys been around, its like, it just never cracked the code. Nothing has actually blown me away over the years, until cloud came. So with cloud, you're seeing a rebirth of NLP because now you have scale, you've got compute power, more access to data, this is a real big deal, can you just talk about the importance of why Cloud and NLP and other things that were, I won't say stunted or hit a glass ceiling and the capability, why is cloud so important because you're seeing a surge in new services. >> Yeah, sure, so there's two big things, one is cloud, the other is machine learning and the AI, and they kind of advanced speech recognition, natural language understanding, speech symphysis, all of the big technologies that we're working on, so with Cloud, there's now sort of a lot more processing that's done centrally and there's more availability of data, that he could use to trains models and that feeds well into machine learning and so you know with machine learning we can do stuff that was much harder to do before machine learning existed. And with some of these new tools, like what makes Dialog Flow special is you could use it to build stuff very, very easily, so I showed last year at Google Cloud Next how you build a bot for an imaginary Google Hardware store, we built the whole thing in 15 minutes, and deployed it on a messaging platform and it was done and its so quick and easy anyone can do it now. >> So Dave we could an ask the cube bot, take our transcripts and just have canned answers maybe down the road you automate it away. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah! >> You'd kill our job! (laughs) >> No its pretty awesome. What's interesting is its shifting the focus from kind of developers and IT more to the business users, so what we're seeing is a lot of our customers, one of the people that went on stage yesterday in the Dialog Flow section, they were saying that now 90% of the work is actually done by the business users that are programming the tool. >> Really? Because a low code type of environment? >> Yeah, you can build simple things without coding, now you know, if you were a large enterprise you're probably going to need to have a fulfillment layer, that has code, but it's somewhat abstracted from the analoopies, and so you can do a lot of things directly on the UY without any code. >> So I get started as a business user, develop some function, get used to it and then learn over time and add more value and then bring in my real hardcore devs when I really want some new functions. >> Right. So what it handles is understanding what the user wants. So if you're building a cube bot, and what Dialog Flow will do is help you understand what the user is saying to the cube bot and then what you need to bring in a developer for is to then fulfill it so if you want that, for example, every time they ask for cube merchandise, you want to send them a shirt or a toy or something, you want your developer to connect it to your warehouse or wherever. >> Give us the best bot chain content you have? >> Right. >> There it is. >> So how would we go about that? We have all this corpus of data that we ingest and and we would just, what would we do with that? Take us through an example. >> So you would want to identify what are the really important use cases, that you want to fulfill, you don't want to do everything, you're going to spread yourself thin and it won't be high quality, you want to pick what are the 20% of things that drive 80% of of the traffic, and then fulfill those, and then for the rest, you probably want to just transition to a human and have it handled by a human. >> So, lets say for us we want it to be topical, right, so would we somehow go through and auto categorize the data and pick the top topics and say okay now we want to chat bot to be able to ask questions about the most relevant content in these five areas, ten areas, or whatever, would that be a reasonable use case that you could actually tackle? >> Yeah, definitely. You know there's a lot of tools, some Google offer, some that other offer that can do that kind of of categorization but you would want to kind of figure out what the important use cases that you want to fulfill and then sort of build paths around them. >> Okay and then you've got ML behind this and this is a function I can, this fits into your servalist strategy, your announced GA today, >> We announced GA a few months ago, but what we announced yesterday was five new features that help transform Dialog Flow into sort or from a tool-- >> What are those features take a minute to explain. >> Sure, yeah, yeah, so first is our Dialog Flow phone gateway, what is does is it can turn any bot into a an IVR that can respond within, it take 30 seconds to set up. You basically just choose a phone number and it attaches a phone number and it cost zero dollars per month, zero, nothing, you juts pay for usage if it actually goes above a certain limit, and then it does all of the speech recognition, speech symphysis, natural language understanding orchestration, it does it all for you. So setting up and IVR, a few years ago used to be something that you needed millions of dollars to set up. >> A science project! Yeah absolutely! >> Now you can do it in a few minutes. >> Wow! >> Second is our knowledge connectors. What it does it lets you incorporate enterprise knowledge into your chat bot, it could either be FAQs or articles, and so now if you have some sort of FAQ, again in like less than a minute, you can build it into Dialog Flow without having to intense for it. Then there are a few other smaller ones that we introduced also are speech symphysis, automatic spell correction, which is really important for a chat box because people always have typos, I'm guilty just as much as everyone. Last but not least sentiment analysis, so when it helps you understand when you want to transition to a human, for example, if you have someone sort of that's not super happy-- >> Agent! >> Yeah exactly! >> And some of these capabilities were available separately so for example you could have built a phone gateway and connected it to Dialog Flow before, but it used to be a big project that took a lot of work so, we had a guest speaker yesterday, in the session for Dialog Flow and they've been running POC with a few vendors right now, its been going on for a few months, and they told us that with Dialog Flow, phone gateway and knowledge connectors, they were able to build something in a few hours that took a few months to do with other vendors because they have to stitch together multiple services, configure them, set them up, do all of that. >> So the use case for this, just to kind of, first of all to, chat box have been hot for a while, super great, but now you have an integrated complex system behind it powering an elegant front end, I could see this as a great bolt on to products, whether it's websites or apps, how-tos, instrumentation, education, lot of different apps, that seems to be the use case. How does someone learn more about how they get involved? Do they go to the website, download some code? Just take us through. I want to jump in tomorrow or now, what do I do? >> There's a free edition I can have right? >> Exactly, yeah, so the good news is you could go to either cloud@google.com/dialogflow or dialogflow.com, there's, if you go to dialogflow.com you can sign up for the standard edition which is 100% free, its for text interactions, its unlimited up to small amount of traffic, and you can even play around with the phone gateway and knowledge connectors with a limited amount, without even giving a credit card. If you want cloud terms of service and enterprise grade reliability, we also offer Dialog Flow enterprise edition, which is available on cloud or google.com, and you can sign up there. >> That comes with an SLA that-- >> Exactly, an SLA and like cloud data terms of service, and everything that's kind of attached with that. I'd also encourage people to check out the YouTube clip for the session that was yesterday that was where we demoed all of these new features. >> What was the name of the session? >> Automating you contact center with a virtual agents. >> Okay check that out on YouTube, good session. Okay so take us through the road map, your on the products, so you're product manager so this is, you got to decide priorities, maybe cut some things, make things work better, what's on the roadmap, what's the guiding principles, what's the north star for this product? >> Yeah, so, for us it's all about the quality of the end user experience, so the reality is there's many thousands of bots out there in the world, and most of them are not great. >> I'll say, most of them really suck. (laughs) >> If you Google for why chat bots, why chat bots fail is the first result, and so that's kind of our north star, we want to solve that, we want to help different developers, whether they're start ups, experience they're enterprises, we want to help them build a high quality bots, and so a lot of the features we announced yesterday, are kind of part of that journey, for example, send integrated sentiment experience that as you transition to humans, cause we know we can't solve everything so helps you understand, or knowledge connectors-- >> Automation helps to a certain point but humans are really important, that crossover point. Trying to understand that's important. >> Exactly, and we'd rather help people build bots that are focused on specific use cases, but do them really, really well, versus do a lot, but leave users with a feeling that they were talking to a bot that doesn't understand them and have a bad experience. >> We could take all the questions we've done on the cube, Dave, and turn them into a chat bot. What's the future of bots? >> Yeah. >> Go ahead, answer the question. (laughs) >> So I think, so we're kind of in the last year or two, we've been at an inflection point, where speech recognition has advanced dramatically, and it's now good enough it can understand really complex questions, so you can see with, sort of Google Assistant and Google Home and bunch of other things that people can now converse with bots and get sort of reasonably good answers back. >> And that just feed ML in a big way. >> Right, exactly, so now, you know, Dialog Flow introduced speech recognition in recognition, which just introduced speech recognition yesterday, and so we're now looking to empower all of our developers to build these amazing voice voice based experiences with Dialog-- >> Give an anecdote or an experience that the customers had where you guys are like wow, that blow me away! That is so cool, or that is just so technically amazing, or that was unique and we've never seen that coming, give us, share some color commentary around some of the implementations of the bot, bot world and the Dialog Flow's impact to someones business or life. >> Sure, so I think yesterday the ticketmaster team was showing how they look at their current idea of that's based in the old world, where you have to give very short response like yes or no or like San Francisco California, and because it's built on these short responses, it kind of a guided IVR, it takes 11 steps-- >> What's an IVR again? >> Integrated Voice Response or Interactive Voice Response, it's a system that answers the phone. >> Just want to get the jargon right. >> So now that with something like Dialog Flow they can go and build something like that instead of 11 steps, takes 3 steps. So because someone can just say, I'd like to buy tickets for so and so and complete the sentence. And the cool thing is sort of the example that they gave a recording that I made with them about a year, plus ago, and the example was, I'd like to book tickets for Chainsmokers and then they were showing it yesterday in the conference, they were like oh we know why you chose it, its because the Chainsmokers are preforming at Google Cloud Next! Its probably just a funny coincidence but... >> So they've deployed this now or they're in the processes of deploying it? >> They're in the process of deploying it, first for customer service, and at a later stage its going to be for sales as well. >> Yeah, because of the IVR for Ticketmaster today, I know it well, I'm a customer, I love Ticketmaster, but you're right, it tells you what you just asked them pretty well, but it really doesn't quite solve your problem well so. >> I mean the recognize the sales one was built a long time ago, but they're kind of overhauling all of that. >> I'm excited to see it because its a good point of comparison, you know good reference point that you understand, it's , the takeaway that I'm getting, Dan, is the advice you're giving is, nail the use case, narrow it down, and then start there, don't try to do too wide of a scope. >> Exactly, exactly. Handle the most important thing is delivering great end user experiences because you want people to really enjoy talking to the bot, so in surveys people say, 60% of consumers say that the thing they want to improve most in customer service is getting more self serve tools. They're not looking to talk to humans, but they're forced to because the self services, yeah they're terrible. >> If can get it quickly self served, I'd love that every time, I'd serve myself gas and a variety of other things, airport kiosks have gotten so much better, I don't mind those anymore. Okay one quick follow up on Dave's point about making a focus, I totally agree, that's a great point. Is there a recommendation on how the data should be structured on the ingest side? What's the training data, si there a certain best practice you recommend on having certain kinds of data, is it Q and A, is it just text, speaks this way, is it just a blob of data that gets parsed by the engine? Take us through on the data piece. >> So that really changes a lot, depending on the specific use case, the specific companies, the specific customers, so someone asked in the adience yesterday, asked the guest speaker has many intense they felt in Dialog Flow and each one of them had very different answer, so it depends a lot. But I would say the goal is to kind of focus on the top use cases that really matter, built high quality conversations, and then built a lot of intents and text examples in those, and when I say a lot, it doesn't, we don't need a lot because Dialog Flow is built on machine learning, sometimes a few dozen is enough, or maybe a couple hundred if you need to, but like we see people trying tens of thousands, we don't need that much data. And then for the other stuff that's not in your core use cases, that's where you can use things like knowledge connectors, or other ways to respond to people rather than to manually build them in, or just divert them to human associates that can fill those. >> Great job Dan! So you're the lead product manager? >> I'm the lead product manager on Dialog Flow Enterprise Edition, and there's a large team kind of working with me. >> How big is the team? Roughly. >> We don't talk about that actually. >> What other products do you own? >> I'm also product manager for cloud speech to text and cloud text to speech. >> Well awesome. Glad to have you on, thanks for sharing. Super exciting, love the focus. I think its a great strategy of having something that's not a one trick pony bot kind model, having something that is more comprehensive, see that's why bots fail. But I think there's a real need for great self service, its the Google way, search yourself, get out quick. Get your results, I mean its the Google ethos. (laughs) Get in, get your answer. >> Yeah, we're all about democratizing AI so now with cloud speech to text and cloud text to speech, put the power of Google speech recognition, speech synthesis into the hands of any developer, now with Dialog Flow we are taking that a step further, anyone can build their voice bots with ease, what used to cost like millions of dollars, you don't need special expertise. >> Alright, Dan Harron is the product manager for the Dialog Flow Enterprise Edition and doing Cloud AI for Google to bring you all the best dialog here in the cube, doing our part, soon we'll have a cube bot, you can ask us any question, we'll have a canned answer from one of the cube interviews. Dave Vellante is here with me, I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching! Stay with us we'll be right back! (music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering DockerCon 18, brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of DockerCon 2018. We are in San Francisco at Moscone, US. It's a spectacular day in San Francisco. It's a day to play hooky frankly, or play hooky and watch theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin with John Troyer, and we're excited to welcome to theCUBE Abby Fuller, Developer Relations from AWS. Abby, great to have you here. >> Happy to be here. >> So you were a speaker at DockerCon 2018. Tell us a little bit about that and your role in Developer Relations. >> So I work in Developer Relations for AWS. So I used to be a devops engineer, and now I go around talking to customers and developers and other software engineers, and teaching them how to use things with AWS, or this morning it was teaching everyone how to build effective Docker images. >> So I read in your bio on the DockerCon website of the speakers that you're a container fan. We know you're a music fan, but you're also a container fan. What is it about that technology that you just go, "Oh, this is awesome, "and I can't wait to teach people "about the benefits of this"? >> So I switched over to container as a customer before I started working at AWS, and the biggest reasons for me, the first one was portability, so that I could do everything that I needed to run my application all in one place. So I think a big problem for a lot of developers is the whole what works on my machine? So being able to package everything together so that it worked on my machine, but also on a staging environment, a QA environment, and on your machine, that was the biggest thing for me. And that it removed some of the spaghetti code that came before, and it just made everything, it was all packaged nicely, I could deploy it a little bit more easily, a little bit faster, and I eliminated a lot of the why doesn't it work now when it worked before? >> Abby, one of the paradoxes of where we are in 2018 is AWS has been around for a decade, but yet here at the show, about half the folks raised their hand to the question, this is your first DockerCon? Are you just getting started with Docker and containers? So as an evangelist, Evangelist Developer Relations, you're the front line of talking with people at the grassroots. So can you talk a little bit about some of the different personas you encounter? Are you meeting people who are just getting started with their container journey? Or are you spending a lot of time kind of finessing the details about that API, APIs and changes and things like that at AWS? >> I think my favorite part about talking to AWS customers is that you get the whole range, right? So you get people that are just starting and they wanna know how do I build a container? How do I run it? How do I start from zero? And then you get the people that have been doing it for maybe a year or maybe two years, and they're looking for like advanced black belt tips, and then you get the other group which is not everyone is building a greenfield application, so then you get a really interesting subset where they're trying to move over from the whole monolith to micro services story. So they're trying to containerize and kind of adopt agile containerize approaches as they're moving over, and I think the best part is being able to talk to the whole range 'cause then it's never boring. >> What are some of the big barriers that you see for organizations that are maybe on the very very beginning of the journey or maybe before it, when you're talking with customers or developers, what are some of the things that you're hearing them say, "Ah, but what about these? "How can you help me eliminate these challenges?" >> Two big ones for me. The first one is the organizational changes that go around the infrastructure change. So it doesn't always work to just containerize what you already had, and then call it a day. So a lot of people are decomposing, they're going with micro services at the same time as they're going with containers. And I think wrapping your head around that kind of decomposition is the first kind of big challenge. And I think that we really just had to educate better. So show people, so here are some ways that you can break your service up, here are some things to think about when you're figuring out service boundaries. And I think the other one is that they often want a little bit of help when they're getting started. So either educational resources or how can AWS manage part of their infrastructure? Will they focus on the container part? So it's really interesting and it runs a whole gamut. >> Abby, you in Developer Relations, I love the trend, the community orient and trend, they're great, of peers helping peers, you're out there, you're wearing a Bruce Springsteen shirt right now, you made a Wu Tang joke in your talk today which is something that one did not do a few years back, right? You had to kinda dress up, and you were usually a man, and you wore a tie. >> Got my blazer on today. >> You look very sharp. Don't get me wrong. But as you talk to people, one, what's your day like or week like? How many miles do you have this year? That's private. But also as people come up to you, what do they ask you? Are you a role model for folks? Do people come up and say, "How can I do this too?" >> Yeah, so miles for this year. I think like 175,000. >> Already just in June? >> Already this year. So, this is a lot of what I do. I talk to all kinds of customers. I do bigger events like this, I do meet-ups, I do user groups, I go to AWS summits, and dev days and builders days, and things like that. I meet with customers. So day-to-day changes everyday. I'm obviously big on Twitter, spend a lot of time tweeting on planes. It really depends. This is a lot of what I do and I think people, I don't think you can ever really call yourself a role model, right? I love showing people that there's pass into tech that didn't start off with a computer science degree, that there's tons of ways to participate and be part of the tech community, 'cause it's a great community. >> You're not just a talker, you're a coder too. >> Yeah, yeah, so every job before this one with the exception of my very first job which was in sales. I was a dev ops engineer right up until I took the job at AWS, and I like to think that I never left, I'm just no longer on call. But I build my own demos, I write my own blog posts, I do all my own slides and workshops, so still super active, just not on call, so it's the best of all the worlds. >> So you went to Tufts, you didn't major in computer science. >> No. >> You are, I would say, a role model. You might not consider yourself one-- >> Well you can say it, yeah. >> I can say it exactly. It's PC if I say it. But, one of the things that's exciting to have females on the show, and I geek out on this is, we don't have a lot of females in tech. I mean, I think the last stat that I saw recently was less than 25% of technical roles are held by women. What was your career path if we can kinda pivot on that for a second, 'cause I think that's quite interesting. And what are some of the things that you've said, "You know what, I don't care. "I enjoy this, I wanna do this,"? 'Cause in all circumstances you are a role model, but I'd love to understand some of the things you encountered, and maybe some of your advice to those that'll be following in your footsteps. >> Yeah, so I went to school for politics. Programming was a little bit of a side hobby before that, mostly of the how can I do this thing, do this thing that it's not supposed to be doing? So I did that, I went to school. I took a computer science class my very last semester in school. I did not know that it was a thing before then, so I'm I guess a little slow in the comp sci uptake. And I was like, oh wow cool, this is an awesome, this could be an awesome career, but I don't know how to get into it. So I was like okay, I'm gonna go to a startup, and I'm gonna do whatever. So I take a sales job. I did that for maybe nine or 10 months. And I started taking on side projects. So how to write email templates in HTML that I could use that directly showed an impact to my sales job. Then the startup, as startups do, got acquired. And as part of the acquisition I moved my little CRM engineering job to the product team. And then, I'm gonna be honest, I bothered the CTO a lot. And I learned side projects. I was like I've learned Python now, what can you have for me? So I basically bothered him a lot until he helped me do some projects, and totally old enough now to admit that he was very kind to take a chance on me. And then I worked hard. I did a lot of online classes. I read a lot of books. I read a lot of blogs. I'm a big proponent in learning by doing. So I still learn things the same way. I read about it, I decide that I wanna use it, I try it out, and then at the point where I get where I don't quite know what's happening, I go back to documentation. And that got me through a couple of devops jobs until I got to evangelism. And I think the biggest advice I have for people is it's okay to not know what you want right away which is how I have a politics degree. But you can work at it. And don't be afraid to have mentors and communities and peers that can help you 'cause it's the best way to participate, and it's actually whether you have a comp sci job or not, it's still the best way to participate, and that you can have, there are so many nontraditional paths to tech, and I think everyone is equally valuable, because I think I write better coming from a liberal arts degree than I would have otherwise. So I think every skill that you bring in is valuable. So once you figure out what you want, don't be afraid to ask for it. >> The thing I'm hearing here is persistence. And it just reminded me, a quick pivot, of I hosted theCUBE at Women Transforming Technology just a couple weeks ago at VMWare, and they just made a massive investment, 15 million into a lab, a research lab at Stanford, to look at the barriers that women in tech are facing. And one of our guests, Pratima Rao Gluckman, just wrote a book called Nevertheless, She Persisted. It reminded me of you because that's one of the things that I'm hearing from you is that persistence that I think is a really unique thing there. Sorry, I just had to take a little side. >> I saw you looked that up. And actually I saw the title and I have not read it yet, but I have a flight back to New York after this so I'll have to find that. >> You've got time. >> Yeah. >> Over and over again as I talk with folks about IT and tech careers, right? It's that thinking expansively about your job, trying things, being a continuous learner, that is the thing that actually works. Maybe pivoting back to the tech for a sec then, obviously here container central, DockerCon 2018, Kubernetes actually was a big news this morning at the keynote, a big announcement, how Docker EE is gonna connect to Amazon EKS among others, kind of being able to manage the Kubernetes clusters up there in the cloud. And EKS actually just had, it just had its general availability I believe, right? In the last week or so? >> Yeah, so, excited to see EKS in the keynote this morning. We're always happy to deepen our partnerships. Yeah, and we've been in preview since re:Invent, and then we announced the general though of EKS, so Amazon Elastic Container Service for Kubernetes, long acronym. So EKS, we announced the GA last Tuesday. >> The interesting thing about AWS is somebody just compared it, I saw a tweet today to an industrial supply store and it's a huge warehouse full of tools that you can use, and that includes containers. But for containers, the three pieces that are the largest are EKS, ECS, and Fargate. Can you kinda tease those out for us really briefly? >> Yeah so envision if you would a flow chart. So if you wanna run a managed container on AWS, first you pick your orchestration tool, so EKS or ECS. ECS is the one that we've been working on for quite a few years now, so Elastic Container Service. Once you've chosen your orchestration tool, for ECS you have another set of choices which is either to run your containers in the EC2 mode which is manager, cluster, infrastructure as well, so the underlying EC2 hosts. And Fargate mode, where you only manage everything at the container level and task definition level, so no cluster management. >> And that's all taken care of for you. >> That's all taken care of for you. So Fargate I think is not actually a service in the traditional way that we would say that ECS is a service, and more of like an underlying technology, so that's what enables you to manage everything at just the container level and not at the cluster level. But I think the best way of describing it is actually is, there's a really nice quote floating around that said, "When I ask someone for a sandwich, "they don't wanna know the whole sandwich logistics chain, "so how do I get turkey, how do I get cheese, "how do I get mayo on the bread, "they just want the sandwich." So Fargate for, I think, a lot of people, is the sandwich. So I just want the sandwich, just give me your container, don't worry about the rest. >> So we've already established Abby has a lot of miles already in half a year, so I'm thinking two things. One, we should travel with her 'cause we're probably gonna get free upgrades. And two, you speak with a lot of customers. So tell us about that customer feedback loop. >> Something that I really love about working at Amazon is that so much of our roadmap is driven by customer feedback. So actually something that was really cool is that this morning, so ECS announced a daemon-scheduler, so run tasks one per host on every host in the cluster, so for things like metrics, containers, and log containers. And something that is so cool for me is that I asked for that as a customer, and I just watched us announced it this morning. It's incredible to see every single time that the feedback loop is closed, that people ask for it and then we build it. The same thing with EKS, right? We want you to have a great experience running your infrastructure on AWS, full stop. >> Can you give us an example of a customer that's really been impactful in terms of that feedback loop? One that really sticks out to you as a great hallmark of what you guys are enabling. >> I think that all of our customers are impactful in the feedback loop, right? Anyone from a really small startup to a really large enterprise. I think one that was really exciting to me was a very small Israeli startup. They went all in on managing no EC2 instances very quickly. They're called The Tree. So they were my customer speaker at the Tel Aviv summit, and they managed zero EC2 instances. So they have Fargate, they have Lambda, they managed no infrastructure themselves. And I just think it's so cool to watch people want things, and then adopt them so quickly. And the response on Twitter after the daemon-scheduler this morning is like, my favorite tweet was, "This is customer feedback done right." And I love seeing how happy people are when they ask for something or are saying, "Now that you've added that, "I can delete three Lambda functions "because you made it easy." And I love seeing feedback like that. So I think everyone is impactful, but that one stuck out to me as someone that adopted something incredibly quickly and have been so, they're just so happy to have a need solved for them. >> Well that's the best validation that you can get is through the voice of the customer. So to hear that must feel good that not only are we listening, but we're doing things right in a way that our customers are feeling how valuable they are to us. >> Happy customers are the best customers. >> They definitely are. >> Yeah. >> We learn a lot from the ones that aren't happy, and there's a lot of learnings there, but hearing that validation is icing on the cake. >> Always. >> Last question for you. With some of the announcements that came out today, and as this conference and its figure has grown tremendously, when I was walking out of the general session this morning, I took a photo because I don't think I've seen a general session room that big in a long time, and that was just at the Sapphire last week which has 20,000 attendees. I was impressed with how captivated the audience was. So last question, what excites you about some of the things that Docker announced today? >> So I think that's interesting. Something that's excited me in general is watching the community itself flourished. So there's many, there's Kubernetes CGroups, and there's user groups, the discussion online is always incredibly rich and vibrant, and there are so many people that are just so excited for anything. It's all companies building what they're looking for. And I love seeing things like the Docker Enterprise Edition announcement this morning where the demo is EKS, but I just love seeing customers get the choice to do whatever they want. They have all the options out there, and that you can see how much more rich and vibrant everything is. From even a couple years ago, there's more people every year, there's more sessions every year, the sessions are bigger every year. And I just love that. And I love seeing when people get so excited, and then seeing people that came to your talk two years ago, come back and give their own talk I think is amazing. >> Oh, talk about feedback. That must have felt really good. >> I think it's not a reflection on me, it's a reflection on the community. And it's a very supportive community, and it's a very excited and curious audience. So if you see their reception to other people that talk a lot being like, oh we're really happy to have you, then the next year you're like, well I have a story and I wanna tell it, so I'm gonna sit in my own session, and I think that's the best. >> Well Abby, it's been such a pleasure to have you on theCUBE, thank you. >> Thank you for having me. >> Thank you for stopping by. And your energy is infectious so you'll have to come back. >> Anytime. >> We wanna thank you for watching theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin with John Troyer, live from San Francisco at DockerCon 2018. Stick around, we'll be right back after a short break. (upbeat music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE! Covering DockerCon 18, brought to you by Docker and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin with John Troyer we are live from DockerCon 2018 on a sunny day here in San Francisco at Moscone Center. Excited to welcome to theCUBE Chris Brown the Technical Marketing Manager at Nutanix, Chris welcome to theCUBE! >> Thank you so much for having me. >> So you've been with Nutanix for a couple years, so we'll talk about Nutanix and containers, you have a session control and automate your container journey with Nutanix. Talk to us about what you're gonna be talking about in the session, what's Nutanix's role in helping the customers get over this trepidation of containers? >> Yeah, definitely, and it's, it's a 20 minute session, so we've got a lot of information to cover there 'cause wanna go over a little bit about, you know, who Nutanix is from the beginning to end but, the main part I'm gonna be focusing on in that session is talking about how we, with our com product, can automate VMs and containers together and how we're moving towards being able to, you know, define you application in a blueprint and understand what you're trying to do with your application. You know, one of the things I always say is that nobody runs Sequel because they love running Sequel, they run Sequel to do something, and our goal with the com is to capture that something, what it depends on, what it relies on. Once we understand what this particular component is supposed to do in your application, we can change that, we can move that to another cloud, or we can move it to containers without losing that definition, and without losing its dependence on the other pieces of the infrastructure and exchange information back and forth. So we're talking a little bit about what we're doing today with com and where we're going with it to add Kubernetes support. >> Chris, we're sitting here in the ecosystem expo at DockerCon and your booth is busy, there's a lot of good activity. Are people coming up to you and asking, do they know Nutanix, do they understand who you are, do they just say oh you guys sell boxes? You know you're both a, you're a systems provider, you're a private cloud provider, and a hybrid-cloud provider, do people understand that, the crowd here, and what kinda conversations are you having? >> It's actually really interesting 'cause we're seeing a broad range of people, some customers are comin' up, or some people are coming up that they don't reali--they don't know that other pieces, places their company use Nutanix, but they wanted to learn more about us, so they've got some sort of initiative that you know, a lot of times it is around containers, around understanding, you know, they're starting to figure out, you know, how do we deploy this, how do we connect? You know, we've got something we wanna deploy here and there how do we do that in a scalable way? But we also have some that have no idea who we are and just comin' up like so you've got a booth and some awesome giveaways, (laughing) what do I have to do to get that, and what do you do? And you know, I really kinda summarize it as two main main groups of people that I've seen is, one of 'em is, the people who've been doing containers for forever, they know it, they've been doing it, they're very familiar with the command line, they're ret-- any gooey is too much gooey for them. And then we've got the people who are just getting started, they've kinda been told hey, containers are coming, we need to figure out how to do this, or we've got, we need to start figuring out our containers strategy. And so they're here to learn and figure out how to begin that. And so it's really interesting because those, the ones that are just getting started or just learning, we obviously help out a ton because the people who came before had to go through all the fire, all the configuration, all of the challenges, and figure out there own solutions where as we can, now we kinda come in, there's a little bit more opinionated example of how to do these things. >> So DockerCon, this year is the fifth DockerCon, they've got between five thousand and six thousand people, I was talking with John earlier and Steve Singh as well, that how I really impressed when I was leaving the general session, it was standing room only a sea of heads so they've got, obviously developers here right, sweet spot, IT folks, enterprise architects, and execs, you talked about Nutanix getting those the two polar opposite ends of the spectrum, the container lovers, the ones who are the experts, and the ones going I know I have to do this. I'm curious, what target audience are you talking to that goes hey I'm tasked with doing this, are those developers, are those IT folks, are you talking with execs as well, give us that mix. >> For the most part they are IT folks, you're artusional operators who are trying to figure out this new shift in technology and we have to talk to some developers, and it's actually been interesting to have speak with developers because you know, in general that's not, that hasn't been Nutanix's traditional audience, we've sold this product called infrastructure to develop. But developers, the few developers I've talked to have gotten really receptive and really excited about what we can do and how we can help them do their job faster by getting their IT people on board but for the most part it'd be traditional IT operators who're looking at this new technology and you know, givin' it kind of a little squinty eye, trying to figure out where it's going, because at the end of the day, with any shift in IT, there's never a time where something is completely sunset, I mean people are still using mainframes today, people will be using mainframes forever, people are just starting their virtualization journey today they're just going from bare metal to VMs, so, and then even with that shift, there's always something that gets left behind, so, they're trying to figure out how can we get used to this new container shift because at the end of the day not everything is gonna be containerized because there's just simply some things that won't be able to or they'll scope out the project and then it'll end up falling by the wayside or budget will go somewhere else. So they're trying to figure out how they can understand the container world from the world that they come from, the VM-centric world, and then, you know, it's really interesting to talk to them and show them how we're able to bring those two together and give you, not only bring the container journey up another step, but also carry your VMs along the way as well. >> Chris, Nutanix is at a, the center of several different transitions, right, both old school hardware to kind of hyper converge, but not now also kind of private hybrid-cloud to more kind of multi-cloud, hybrid-cloud. When we're not at DockerCon, so when you're out in the field, how real is multi-cloud, how real is containers in a normal enterprise? >> Definitely, so, multi-cloud is a very hot topic for sure, everyone, there's no company, no IT department that doesn't have some sort of cloud strategy or analyzing it or looking at it. The main way that we get there, or one of the core tools we have is com once again, so, and I'm obviously biased because that's my wheelhouse, right, in marketing, so I talk about that day in day out, but, with com you can add, we support today AHV and EXSi both on and off Nutanix, as well as AWS, AWS gov cloud and GCP, and Azure's coming in down the line that's where Kubernetes will come in as well, so we see a lot of people looking a this and saying hey you know, we do wanna be able to move into AWS, we do wanna be able to move into GCP and use those clouds or unify them together, and some com lets us do that. There's a couple other of prongs to that as well, one of them is Beam, Nutanix Beam, which is a product we announced at DotNext last month, which is around multi-cloud cost optimization, Beam came from an acquisition that of bought metric--the company was called milinjar, I'm probably saying that horribly wrong, but made a product called bought metric which we've rebranded and are integrating into the platform as Nutanix Beam. So what that allows you to do is, you can, it's provided as a SaaS service, so you can go use it today, there's a trial available, all that, you give it AWS credentials and it reaches out and takes a look at your billing account and says hey, we noticed that these VMs are running 50% of the time at no capacity, or they're not being used at all, you can probably cut that down shrink these and save it or hey we noticed that in general you're using this level, this baseline level, you should buy these in reserved instances to save this much per month. And it presents all that up in a really easy to use interface, and then, depending on how you wanna use it, you can even have it automatically go and resize your VMs for you, so it can say, hey you've got a T2 medium or an M2 medium running, it really would make a lot more sense as a you know M2 small. You can, it'll give you the API call, you can go make it on your own, or you can have, if you give crede-- authorization of course, it can go ahead and run that for you and just downsize those and start saving you that money, so that's another fork of that, the multi-cloud strategy. And the last one is one of the other announcements we made around last month which was around--excuse me extract for VMs, so extract is a portfolio of products, we've got extract for DBs where we can scan your sequel databases and move into ESXi or AHV, both from bare metal, or wherever the sequel databases running, extract for VMs allows us to scan the ESXi VMs, and move them over to AHV. And then, we're taking extract for VMs to the next step and being able to scan your AWS VMs and pull them on, back on-prem, if that's what you're looking for as well, so that's right now in beta and they're working on fine tuning that. Because at the end of the day, it's not just enough to view and manage, we really need to get to someplace where we can move workloads between, and put the workload in the right place. Because really with IT, it's always a balance of tools, there's never one golden bullet that solves every problem, every time a new project comes out you're trying to choose the right tool based on the expertise of the team, based on what tools are already in use, based on policy. So, we wanna be able to make sure that we have the tool sets across, that you can choose and change those choices later on, and always use the right thing for the particular application you're running. >> Choice was a big theme this morning during the general session where Docker was talking about choice agility and security. I'm curious with some of the things that were announced, you know they're talking about the only multi-cloud, multi-OS, multi-Linux, they also were talking about, they announced this federated, containerized application management saying hey, containers have always been portable but management hasn't been. I'm curious what your perspectives are on some of the of the evolution that Docker is announcing today, and how will that help Nutanix customers be able to successfully navigate this container journey? >> Definitely. And--(clears throat) you know federation's critical, being able to, container management in general is always a challenge, one of the things that I've heard time and time again is that getting are back to work for Kubernetes has always been very difficult. (laughs) And so, getting that in there, getting, that is such a basic feature that people expect, you're getting the ability to properly federate roles or federate out authentication is huge. There's a reason that SAML took the world by storm, it's that nobody wants to manage passwords, you wanna rely on some external source of truth, being able to pull that in, being able to use some cloud service and have it federated against having Docker federated against other pieces is very important there. I might've gone way off there, but whatever. (laughing) >> No, no, absolutely. >> And then, the other piece of it is that we, with a multi-cloud, with the idea of it doesn't matter whether you're running on-prem or in the cloud or, that is what people need, that's one of the true promises of containers has always been is the portability, so seeing the delivery of that is huge, and being able to provision it on-prem, on Nutanix obviously because that's who I'm here from. (laughing) but, and being able to provision to the cloud and bring those together, that's huge. >> Chris you talked about Kubernetes couple times now, obviously a big topic here, seems to be kind of emerging de facto application deployment configuration for multi-cloud. What's Nutanix doing with Kubernetes? >> Yeah, so I've definitely, Kubernetes is, it's really in many ways winning that particular battle, I mean don't get me wrong Swarm is great, and the other pieces are great, but, Kubernetes is becoming the de facto standard. One of the things we're working on is bringing containers as a service through Kubernetes, natively on Nutanix, to give you an easy way to manage, through Prism manage containers just the way you manage VMs, manage Kubernetes clusters, and you know it's, it's really important that that's, that is just one solution, because we, there's as many different Kubernetes orchestration engines as you can name, every, any name you bring in, so that's my-- >> It's like Linux, back in the day, they're a lot of different distributions or there're a lot of different ways to consume Kubernetes. >> Exactly. And so, we wanna be able to bring a opinionated way of consuming Kubernetes to the platform natively, just as a, so it's a couple of clicks away, it's very easy to do. But that's not the only way that we're doing it, we're also we do have a partnership with Docker where we're doing things like deploying Docker EE through com, or Docker, it's of course all sorts of legalese but, they're working on that so it's natively in everyone's Prism central you can just one click deploy Docker EE, we have a demo running at our booth deploying rancher using com as well, because we wanna be able to provide whatever set of infrastructure makes the most sense for the customer based on, this is what they've used in the past, this is what they're familiar with, or this is what they want. But we also want to offer an opinionated way to deliver containers as a service so that those of you that don't know, or just trying to get started, or that that's what they're looking for, this, when you've got a thousand choices to make everyone's gonna make slightly different ones. So we can't ever offer one, no one can offer the true, this is the only way to do Kubernetes, we need to offer flexibility across as well. >> One of the words we here all the time at trade shows is flexibility. So, love customer stories, as a customer marketing person, I think there's no greater brand validation you can get than the voice of the customer, and I was looking on the Docker website recently and they were saying: customers that migrate to Docker Enterprise Edition, are actually reducing costs by 50%, so, you're a marketing guy, what're some of your favorite examples of customers where Nutanix is really helping them to just kill it on their container journey? >> Yeah, so, there's a, wish I'd thought of this sooner, I shoulda. (laughing) No, but we have a, one of our customers actually, I, this always brings a smile to my face 'cause they they came and saw us last year at the booth, they're one of our existing long time customers, and they're looking to adopt Docker. They came up and we gave 'em a demo, showed them how all the pieces were doing all of the, and he's just looking at it and he's like man, I need this in my life right now, and it was mostly a demo around Docker EE, using the unified control plane, and showing off, using Nutanix drivers showing how we can back up the data and protect individual components of the containers in a very granular fashion. He's like man I need this in my life, this is incredible, and he went and grabbed his friend ran him over, and was like dude we're already using Nutanix look what they can do! And the perfect example of the two kinds of customers, this guy goes like hold on a second, jumps on the command line, like oh yeah I do this all the time from there. (laughing) >> But, that was the, that light up, the light in the eyes of the customer where they were like, this, I need to be able to see this, to be able to use this, and be able to integrate this, that's, I will not forget that anytime soon. That's really why I think we're going down a very good path there, because the ability to, when you have these tinkerers, the people who are really good at code, I mean I spend a lot of time on the command line myself even though I'm in marketing, so, I don't know what I'm doing there, Powerpoints maybe? (laughing) Just because I can understand it from the command line or an expert can understand it, doesn't mean you can share that. I've been tryin' to hand off some of the gear that I manage off to another person, and was like oh you just type out all these commands, and they're like I have no idea what's going on here. (laughing) And so, seeing the customers be able to, to understand what they're more in depth coworkers have done in a gooey fashion, that's just really, that makes a lot of sense to me and it's, I like that a lot. >> It's great. >> Are you seeing any, and the last question is, as we wrap up, some of the, one of the stats actually that was mentioned in the Docker press release this morning about the new announcements was, 85% of enterprise organizations have multi-cloud, and then we were talking with Scott Johnston, their Chief Product Officer, that said, upwards of 90% of IT budgets are spent on keeping the lights on for existing applications, so, there's a lot of need there for enterprises to go this road. I'm wondering, are you seeing at Nutanix, any particular industries that are really leading edge here saying hey we have a lot of money that we're not able to use for innovation, are you seeing that in any specific industries, or is it kinda horizontal? >> I, to be honest, I've seen it kind of horizontally, I mean I've had, I've spoken to many different customers, mostly around com because, but, and they come from all different walks of life. I've seen, I've talked to customers from sled, who've been really excited about their ability to start better doing hadoop, because they do thousands of hadoop clusters a year for their researchers. I've talked to, you know in the cloud or on-prem, or across. I've talked to people in governments, I've talked to people in hospitals and, you know, all sorts of-- >> I can imagine oil and gas, some of those industries that have a ton of data. >> Yeah and it's actually, the oil and gas is really fascinating because a lot of times they, for in a rig, they wanna be able to use compute, but they can't exactly get to a cloud, so how do you, how do you innovate there and on the edge, without, how do you make a change in the core without making it on the edge, and how do you bring those together? So it's, there's really a lot of really fascinating things happening around that, but, I haven't noticed any one industry in particular it's, it's across, it's that everyone is, but then again, by the time they get to me, it's probably self selected. (laughing) But it's across horizontally, is that everyone is looking at how can we use this vast storage, I just found out this is already being used in my environment because it's super easy, how do I, how do I keep a job? (chuckles) Or how do I adopt this and free up my investments in keeping the lights on into innovation, how do I save time, how do I-- Because one of the things that I've noticed with all of this cloud adoption or container adoption all of that is that many times a customer will start making this push, not always from a low level, maybe from a high level, but, they start making this push because they hear it's faster and better and that it'll just solve all their problems if they just start using this. And, because they rush into they don't often they don't solve the fundamental problems that gave 'em the issue to begin with, and so they're just hoping that this new technology fixes it. So, now there's, I am seeing some customers shift back and say hey, I do wanna adopt that, but I need to do it in a smart way, 'cause we just ran to it and that caused us problems. >> Well it sounds like with all the momentum, John, that we've heard in the keynote, the general session this morning, and with some of the guests, you know, I think even Steve Singh was saying only about half of the audience is actually using containers so it's sounds like, with what you're talking about, with what we've heard consistently today, it's sort of the tip of the iceberg, so lots of opportunity. Chris thank you so much for stopping by theCUBE and sharing with us all the exciting things that are going on at Nutanix with containers and more. >> Thank you so much for having me, it was a lot of fun. >> And we wanna thank you for watching theCUBE, Lisa Martin with John Troyer, from DockerCon 2018 stick around we will be right back with our next guest. (bubbly music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering DockerCon '18, brought to you by Docker and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, we are live at DockerCon 2018 in San Francisco on a spectacular day. I am Lisa Martin with my with my co-host for the day, John Troyer, and we're very pleased to welcome back to theCUBE a distinguished CUBE alumni and Docker veteran, Steve Johnston, Chief Product Officer at Docker. Welcome back. >> Thank you, thank you very much. That's Scott Johnston but that's okay. >> What did I say? Steve? >> Steve. That's okay. >> Oh, I gave you a new name. >> You know, I get that all the time. >> I'm sorry, Scott. >> That's alright. >> This event, between five and six thousand people. >> Yes. >> You were saying in your general session in keynote this morning, that this is the fifth DockerCon. You started a few years ago with just 300 people and when I was walking out of the keynote this morning, I took a photograph, incredible. People as far as the eye can see. It was literally standing room only. >> It's crazy, right? And you think about four years ago, June 2014 when we did our very first DockerCon, here in San Francisco, 300 people, right? And we've gone from 300 to over 5,000 in that time, grown the community, grown the products, grown the partnerships and it's just, it's very humbling, honestly, to be part of something that's literally industry changing. >> You gave some great numbers during your keynote. You talked about 500 customers using Docker Enterprise Edition. >> Yes. >> Some big names. >> Yes. >> MET Life, Visa, PayPal, McKesson, who was on stage and that was a really interesting. McKesson is what, 183 years old? >> Healthcare company, yeah. >> Talking about data, life and death type of data. >> Right. >> Their transformation working with Docker and containers was really pretty impressive. >> It's exciting that companies get their hands on the technology and they start maybe on a small project or a small team but very quickly they see the potential impact of the solution and very quickly, it's almost infectious inside the organization and more and more teams want to jump on, understand how they can use it to help with their applications, their business to get impact in their operations and it just spreads, spreads like wildflower. That was really the story that McKesson was sharing, just how quickly they were seeing the adoption throughout their org. >> I thought that was really interesting and they did point it out on stage, how that developer adoption did help them go to the next level. >> Yes. >> And kind of transform their whole pipeline. >> Yes. >> Now Scott, you've been here the whole line of time and that through line has been, for Docker, that developer experience. >> That's exactly right. >> Now, as Product Lead here, you've got the Docker Desktop side and the Docker EE side and it's clear, there were some great announcements about desktop here, previews today but how do you balance the enterprise side with the developer centric desktop side and that developer experience idea? >> No, it's a great question, John. I'd reshape it almost to say, it's a continuous platform from developer experience to the operation side and you have to stand back and kind of see it as one and less about trading off one versus the other and how do you create an experience that carries all the way through. So a lot of Gareth's demonstration and the Lily Mason play, was showing how you can create apps in Docker very easily as a developer but those same artifacts that they put their apps in to carry all the way through into production, all the way through into operations. So it's about providing a consistent user experience, consistent set of artifacts that can be used by all the different personas that are building software so that they can be successful moving these Docker applications through the entire application development life cycle. Does that make sense? >> It does, thank you. I'd love to get your perspective, when you're talking with enterprises who might have some trepidation about the container journey, they probably know they have to do it to stay agile and competitive. I think in the press release, I believe it was you, that was quoted saying, "An estimated 85% of enterprise organizations are in a multi Cloud world." >> That's right. >> In a multi Cloud strategy. >> That's right. >> So when you're talking with customers, what's that executive conversation like? C level to C level, what are some of the main concerns that you hear and how influential are the developers in that C suite saying, "Hey guys, we've got to go this direction"? >> No, that's right. That's a great question, Lisa and what we hear again, and again, and again, is a realization going on in the C suite, that having software capabilities is strategic to their business, right? That was not always the case, as much as a decade ago, as recently as a decade ago, inside kind of big manufacturing businesses or big verticals that weren't kind of tech first, IT was a back office, right? It was not front and center but now they're seeing the disruption that software can have in other verticals and they're saying, "Wait a minute, we need to make software capabilities a core capability in our business." And who starts that whole cycle? It's the developers, right? If the developers can integrate with the lines of business, understand their objectives, understand how software can help them achieve those objectives, that's where it kicks off the whole process of, "Okay, we're going to build competitive applications. We then need an operations team to manage and deploy those applications to help us deploy them in a competitive way by taking them to the Cloud." So developers are absolutely pivotal in that conversation and core to helping these very large, Fortune 500, hundred year old companies, transform into new, agile, software driven businesses. >> Modernizing enterprise apps has been a theme >> Yes. >> also at Docker for a few years now. >> Yup. >> Up on stage Microsoft demonstrating the results of a multiyear partnership >> That's right. >> between Microsoft and Docker both with Docker integrating well with Windows server as well as, you talked about, Kubernetes now. >> That's right. >> Can you talk a little bit about what the implications of this are? The demo on stage, of course, was a very old enterprise app written in dot net, with just a few clicks, up and running in the Cloud on Kubernetes no less. >> That's right. >> Managed by Docker, that's actually very cool. You want to talk a little bit about, again, your conversations? >> Absolutely. >> Is this all about Cloud native or how much of your conversations are also supporting enterprise apps? >> Tying back to Lisa's question, so how do we help these organizations get started on their transformation? So they realize they need to transform, where do you start? Well guess what? 90% of their IT budget right now is going into these legacy applications and these legacy infrastructures, so if you start there and it can help modernize what they already have and bring it to modern platforms like Docker and Kubernetes, modern platforms like Window Server 2016, it's a modern operating system, modern platforms like Clouds, that's where you can create a lot of value out of existing application assets, reduce your costs, make these apps agile, even though they're thirteen years old and it's a way for the organization to start to get comfortable with the technology, to adopt it in a surface area that's very well known, to see results very, very quickly and then they gain the confidence to then spread it further into new applications, to spread it further into IOT, to spread it further into big data. But you've got to start it somewhere, right? So the MTA, Modernized Traditional Apps, is a very practical, pragmatic but also high, very quick, return way to get started. >> Oh, go ahead. >> Well I just, the other big announcement involving Kubernetes was managing Kubernetes in the Cloud and I wanted to make sure we hit that. >> That's right, that's right. >> Because I think if people aren't paying attention, they're just going to hear multi Cloud and they're going to go on and say, "Well everybody does multi Cloud, Docker's no different, Docker's just kind of catching up." Actually, this tech preview, I think, is a step forward. I think it's something- >> Thank you. >> I haven't actually seen in practice, so I'm kind of curious, again, how you as an engineering leader make those trade offs. Kind of talk a little bit about what you did and how deciding, "Well there's multi Cloud but the devil's in the details." You actually have integrated now with the native Kubernetes in these three Clouds, EKS, AKS and GKE. >> GKE, no that's right. No, it's a great question, John. The wonderful and fascinating but double edged sword of technology is that the race is always moving the abstraction up, right? You're always moving the abstraction up and you're always having to stay ahead and find where you can create real value for your customers. There was two factors that were going on, that you saw us kind of lean in to that and realize there's an opportunity here. One is, the Cloud providers are doing a wonderful job investing in Kubernetes and making it a manage service on their platforms, great. Now, let's take advantage of that because that's a horizontal infrastructure piece. At parallel we were seeing customers want to take advantage of these different Clouds but getting frustrated that every time they went to a different Cloud they were setting up another stack of process and tooling and automation and management and they're like, "Wait a minute. This is going to slow us down if we have to maintain these stacks." So we leaned in to that and said, "Okay, great. Let's take advantage of commoditized infrastructure, hosting Kubernetes. Let's also then take advantage of our ability to ingest and onboard them into Docker Enterprise Edition, and provide a consistent experience user based APIs, so that the enterprise doesn't get tied into these individual silos of tools, processes and stacks." Really, it's the combination of those two that you see a product opportunity emerged that we leaned heavily into and you saw the fruits of this morning. >> I saw a stat on the docker.com website that said that customers migrating to EE containers can reduce total cost by around 50%? >> Yes. >> That's a significant number. >> It's huge, right? You're reducing your cost of maintaining a ten year old app by 50% and you've made it Cloud portable, and you've made it more secure by putting it in the Docker container than outside and so it's like, "Why wouldn't you invest in that?" It shows a way to get comfortable with the technology, free up some cashflow that then you can pour back into additional innovation, so it's really a wonderful formula. That again, is why we start a lot of customers with their legacy applications because it has these types of benefits that gets them going in other parts of their business. >> And as you mentioned, 90% of an enterprise IT budget is spent keeping the lights on. >> That's right. >> Which means 10% for innovation and as we've talked about before, John, it's the aggressively innovating organizations that are the winners. >> That's exactly right and we're giving them tools, we're giving them a road map even, on how they can become an aggressively innovating organization. >> What about the visibility, in terms of, you know, an organization that's got eight different IT platforms, on prem, public Cloud, hybrid- >> Right. >> What are you doing with respect to being able to deliver visibility across containers and multiple clusters? >> That's right. Well that's a big part of today's announcement, was being able ... Every time we ingest one of these clusters, whether it's on prem, whether it's in the Cloud, whether it's a hosted Kubernetes cluster, that gives us that visibility of now we can manage applications across that, we can aggregate the logging, aggregate the monitoring. You can see, are your apps up, down, are they running out of resources? Do you need to load balance them to another cluster? So it's very much aligned with the vision that we shared on stage, which is fully federated management of the applications across clusters which includes visibility and all the tools necessary for that. >> Scott, I wanted to ask about culture and engineering culture >> Thank you. >> The DockerCon here is very, I think we called it humane in our intro, right? There's childcare on site, there's spoustivities, there's other places to take care of the people who are here and give them a great experience and a lot of training, of course, and things like that. But internally, engineering, there's a war for talent. Docker is very small compared to the Googles of the world but yet you have a very ambitious agenda. The theme of choice today, CLI versus GUI, Kubernetes versus Swarm, Lennox and Windows, not versus, Lennox and Windows, you know and, and, and, and now all these different Clouds and on prem. That's very ambitious and each "and" there takes engineering resources, so I'm kind of curious how the engineering team is growing, how you want to build the culture internally and how you use that to attract the right people? >> Well it certainly helps to be the start up that kicked off this entire movement, right? So a lot of credit to Solomon Hykes, our founder, and the original crew that ... Docker was a Skunkworks project in the previous version of our company and they had the vision to bring it forward and bring it to the world in an opensource model which at the time was a brand new language, go language. That was a catalyst that really got the company off and running in 2013/2014. We're staying true to that in that there's still a very strong opensource culture in the company and that attracts a lot of talent, as well as continuing to balance enterprise features and innovation and you see a combination of that on stage. You're also going to see a wonderful combination of that on the show floor, both from our own employees but also from the community. And I think that's the third dimension, John, which is being humble and call it "aware" that innovation doesn't just come from inside our four walls but that we give our engineers license to bring things in from the outside that add value to their projects. The Kubernetes is a great example of that, right? Our team saw the need for orchestration, we had our own IP in the form of Swarm, but they saw the capabilities of Kubernetes is very complimentary to that, or some customers were preferring to deploy that. So, no ifs, ands or buts, let's take advantage of that innovation, bring it inside the four walls and go. So, it's that kind of flexibility and awareness to attract great engineers who want to work on cutting edge, industry building technologies but also who are aware enough of, there's exciting things happening outside with the community and partnering with that community to bring those into the platform as well. >> So Scott, you guys are doing a lot of collaboration internally, but you're also doing a lot of collaboration with customers. How influential are customers to the development of Docker technologies? >> At ground zero, literally and we have at DockerCon, we call it a customer advisor group, where the customers who have been with us, who have deployed with us in production, we have them. And it's a very select group, it's about twelve to sixteen, and they tell us straight talk in terms of where it's working, where we need to improve. They give us feedback on the road map and so that happens every DockerCon, so that's once every six months. But then we actually have targets inside engineering and product management to be out in the field on a regular basis to make sure we're continuing to get that customer feedback. Innovation's a tricky balance, right? Because you want to be out in front and go where folks aren't asking you to, but you know there's opportunity, at the same time here, where they are today, and make sure you're not getting too far ahead. It's the old joke, Henry Ford, where if he's just listened to his customers, he would have made faster horses but instead he was listening to their problems, their real problems which was transportation and his genius, or his innovation, was to give them the Model T, right? We're trying to balance that ourselves inside Docker. Listen to customers but also know where the innovation, where the technology can take you to give you new solutions, hopefully many of which you saw on stage today. >> We did, well Scott, thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE again and sharing some of the exciting announcements that Docker has made and what you're doing to innovate internally and for the external enterprise community. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you, Lisa. Thank you, John. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE. Again, Lisa Martin with John Troyer, live in San Francisco at DockerCon 2018. Stick around, John and I will be right back with our next guest. (upbeat techno music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering DockerCon 18, brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to theCUBE. We are live in San Francisco at DockerCon 2018. I am Lisa Martin with my co-host for the day, John Troyer. John, it is not only a stunning day in San Francisco, beautiful blue skies, this is a packed event. Their fifth DockerCon event and they've got between 5,000 and 6,000 people. We just came from the general session keynote, and it was standing room only as far as the eyes could see. >> Yeah, looks like a good crowd here, a lot of energy. Docker keynotes, always super interesting, they always do a lot of demos, they bring up a lot of employees. It's not just like a parade of middle-aged executives, always is super dynamic, a lot of demos. Really liked the keynote this morning. >> I did too. The energy you mentioned was great. It kicked off with... who's the name of that gentleman that is one of the rally guys for... >> Franco Finn. >> Franco Finn, who has worked for the Warriors, the 2018 Golden State Warriors, NBA Champs. So that was a great way to kick it off, but also Steve Singh had great energy, their CEO, we're gonna have him on shortly today. Scott Johnston, and as you talked about their employees and also customers. They have some really great numbers. They've got, I think, about 120 sessions this year at DockerCon. Nine big enterprise customers talking about how they are approaching containerization with DockerCon. One of them was McKesson, which is a 183 year old company with a lot of staff that gave a really compelling keynote or a, yeah, a keynote this morning about how they are moving and modernizing their data center with Docker. >> A really nice story, a really an emphasis on trust, an emphasis on developer usability, and I liked one of the points was, once we got the developers using it it became easier, and I think using the whole platform. Lisa, I think they hit a lot of familiar things for Docker: so, developer experience, really big for Docker. That's they way they started, that's what they're still counting on. When Steve Singh got up, he talked about community, their very first thing. Over half the people here, first time at DockerCon and over half of the folks are just using containers in the late last year. That means this whole journey is just starting. There's a lot of white space in the container world. So developer experience, a big announcement, preview announcement for Docker Desktop, being able to create apps off of templates and things like that but very developer-focused shows as opposed to some of the more IT-focused. There's a broad mix here but definitely a lot of developers here at the show. >> A lot of developers, as you said, but also, you're right, it is a mix. It's IT professionals, it's enterprise architects, and it's executives and that's one of the... one of the targeted audiences that, I think, both Steve Singh and Scott Johnston talked about, so it'll be great to explore. As the CEO and the Chief Product Officer respectfully, what are they hearing from enterprise customers who have a lot of challenges with legacy applications that are very difficult to manage and I also read some stats, they had some stats in the press release this morning, but 80% of enterprise IT budgets are spent keeping the lights on for enterprise apps which leaves about 20% for innovation and of course, as we know, organizations that can aggressively innovate are the ones that win. So I'm not only looking forward to hearing with Docker Desktop, what they're doing to make it easy, easier, for developers to get in there and play around on both on Mac and Windows but also the executive conversation. What are they hearing from the executives and where is containerization, you know, from the c-sweep to the board room. >> Yeah, modernizing enterprise apps also has been a Docker theme for the last few years. Microsoft, the big guest up on stage, they've been a multi-year partnership with Microsoft and Docker, putting Docker with Windows together. The big announcement today, pre-technology preview of Kubernetes and Windows Server and the big demo was, they took a very old .net application and, you know, put it up on Kubernetes on Windows with just a couple of clicks. So again, I think that message to the executives is, "You're very safe in Docker's hands "We've got the developer experience covered, "we've got the partnerships." And then going big on Windows, I think choice was another theme that I heard ... >> Yes, it was. Steve talked a lot about choice. >> Um, to the execs here as well, both GUI and CLI, right? A lot of the cloud is very CLI-focused, very Linux-focused. Docker says "We're in on Windows, we support Windows "just as well as Linux so don't hate on the GUI. "You can use a GUI or you can use a CLI." No religion actually too, in terms of Linux versus Windows but Kubernetes, I thought, was a very big. Got mentioned a lot in the keynote this morning, Lisa. >> It did and you talked about choice. One of the things that Steve Singh mentioned from an executive's perspective is, three things that Docker is aiming to deliver. That sounds to me, as a marketer, like competitive differentiation. Talked about choice so that organizations can run apps wherever it makes sense for them, managing applications on any infrastructure, and, as you said earlier, about a few clips, managing their container infrastructures across multiple clouds in just a few clicks. They also talked about being, they also talked a number of times, not just in the press release but also this morning in the keynote, about no vendor lock-in. John, we hear that a lot, it sounds like a marketing term. What are you expecting to hear? What does that mean for Docker? >> I'm not so sure that lock-in is always important for every enterprise, in that any choice you make, it has a certain element of lock-in but it's an active argument or debate online that I see a lot. "Are you locked in when you go to a certain cloud? "Are you locked in when you choose a certain provider," whether it's open-sourced or not. Certainly a lot of Docker is open source. A lot of your choices are protected and they are really trying to say "We're going to be a platform that's going to "service a lot of different abilities to deploy." The big announcement that finished off the keynote was Docker Enterprise Edition can now manage Kubernetes. Not only Kubernetes in the cloud. Kubernetes on Prim, Kubernetes in the cloud managed by Docker, but can actually work with the native Kubernetes cluster managers of the clouds, of the three major clouds: Google GKE, Azure AKS, and AWS EKS. I think I got all those names right. But that's big because a lot of folks say "run anywhere" but they mean "run within our environment anywhere" and what Docker has done in Tech Preview is to connect its platform with the native platforms, orchestration platforms, of the three different clouds so that you can run on Prim, manage via Docker, or you can connect into the cloud's own cluster orchestration. And if they can deliver on that, the devil is in the details, but if they can deliver on that, that's actually a very nice feature to avoid that sort of lock-in. >> And that also goes to, John, one of the major things which is agility and one of the things that they've talked about is, containers today are portable but one of the challenges is that management of containers has not been portable. I think they said that 85% approximately of enterprise I.T. organizations that they has surveyed are running a multi-cloud strategy so they've gotta be able to really deliver this single pane of glass management so they talked about federated application or federated management of containerized applications. I think that's kind of what you're referring to in terms of getting away from the silos and enabling organizations to have that portability and especially as multi-national organizations need to have different access, different security, policies may be maintained across multiple locations. >> Indeed, right. These are global organizations that are betting on container technology. They do need access to be running apps, either parts of apps or services on different clouds. You might be running a Google cloud in Europe, you might be running an AWS here or vice versa. You might have some on-Prim stuff. We've seen a lot of that. I think another theme that we'll hit on, Lisa, along with that multi-cloud portfolio aspect, is the time to value. It's been a theme of this conference season. This last month or two, you and I have both been at a lot of different conference centers and I think time to value, being able to spin up apps within weeks or months that actually work and have value versus the old way, which was years and I think the theme for 2018 is that it's real. People are actually doing it and we'll talk to a couple of customers, I hope, today. >> And that's essential because enterprises, while there's still trepidation with moving into the container journey, they don't really have a choice to be able to aggressively innovate to be able to be leaders and compete with these cloud-native organizations. They don't have the luxury of time to rip and replace old enterprise applications and put them on a container or a micro-service's space archicture, they've got to be able to leverage something like containers to maximize time to value to deliver differentiating services. >> Absolutely. I'm very interested in being here today and we'll see what the day brings us. >> I think we're gonna have a lot of fun today, John. I think they kicked off things with great energy. I loved how, you know, they always do demos, right, on main stage during general sessions, and we were at SAP last week and of course, one of the demos didn't work. That's just the nature of trying to do things live. I liked how they were very cheeky with the praying to the demo Gods with the fortune cookies. I thought that was really good but the demos were simple. They were very clearly presented and I'm excited with you to dig in to what are they doing. Also what is setting them apart and how are they enabling enterprise organizations like MetLife, like McKesson, PayPal, Splunk to be able to transform to compete. >> Absolutely. One last thing about the conference, Lisa, is I do want to call out. It's a very humane conference. Not only do they have kind of a cheeky sense of humor here at Docker, but there's child care onsite, and there's spouse-tivities, there are activities for if you bring your spouse or family to the conference. They're trying to do a lot of things to make the conference experience good and successful and friendly and humane for people here at the show which I really appreciate. >> I like that, humane conference. You're right. We don't always see that. Well, John and I are going to be here all day talking with Docker executives, customers, partners and we're excited to have you with us. Lisa Martin for John Troyer. You're watching theCUBE at DockerCon 2018. We'll be right back with our first guest. (techno music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Austin, Texas, it's the CUBE. Covering DockerCon 2017. Brought to you by Docker in support from its ecosystem partners. >> Hi I'm Stu Miniman here with the final wrap with Jim Kobielus at DockerCon 2017. The CUBE's really excited that we were here for the third year. Have to have a big shout out to our partners and our sponsors that allow us to be here. Of course, Docker's been a great partnership. They talk a lot about ecosystem, really bringing some media people like ourselves giving us some of the great speakers from their company, the partner ecosystem and their customers, and the sponsors for the show, for ourselves, App Lariat, CISCO, Iguazio, Skelety, Cononical, and Red Hat. Without them we couldn't bring you this programming. Really excited to be able to be here. They're starting to tear down the show here, so not a lot of time, so many things to dock to. >> The show itself is containerized. >> We're not even going to be able to talk about the Franklin's barbeque. >> You just did. >> But Jim ... Absolutely. Jim, you've gotten to be on the CUBE here, see some of the show. Give us your quick hits. >> Sure. >> on your takeaways from the show. >> First of all, my first takeaway is this is a vibrant developer ecosystem, clearly. This show is much larger than the year before, and the year before that. It'll probably be twice as large next year. That's my prediction based on the sheer amount of developers migrating into the Docker ecosystem because so many organizations are Dockerizing their applications, containerizing their applications. That's a huge focus for me and Wikibon, as an analyst, is the containerization of application development with microservices and all that, for cloud deployment and multi-clouds, hot, hot, hot across all niches. So, vibrant ecosystem. Docker as the core solution-provider and the centerpiece of this community. Amazing show. The Enterprise Edition, of course, that preceded the announcement of that and the release preceded this show. That's critically important in getting Docker into new accounts that, with a full stack. Clearly it's enterprise ready. Developers, more developers will be exposed to Docker through the EE. Docker, at this show, had a couple of really important announcements for developers. Moby. Project Moby, for customization of container images and so forth, clearly that's going to be a multiplier effect on the ecosystem of developers, ISVs and so forth, Building applications, and customizing containerized Docker applications and images for a wide range of opportunities. >> Yeah, Jim, just want to comment on the Moby piece here 'cause it was really interesting. I think the last couple of years, it's been that pull and tug as to what was the open-source piece, what is the company itself doing, and I think it's clarifying. Kubernetes is a big rising tide in the environment, and all they cared about is they've got the open-source pieces that they need to be able to do Kubernetes. So, with Moby Project it's like okay, now I understand what's out and open. I understand what Docker's doing. I saw some humility from Solomon Hykes, talking, it's like we're listening. We're working, you know, ecosystem, ecosystem, ecosystem. So it was good to see that maturity. I mean, there were some people that I talk to, and they're like, "Oh, will this be the last DockerCon?" I'm like, "I don't think anybody watching this show would say that coming out." As you said, I expect the show to grow; it's doing really well. >> Solomon's totally partner-focused. Look at him. >> Kudos to what they're doing. The partners are excited. It's not just lip service. "Oh yeah. We did some little announcement on the side." No. We're excited. This is there. I know you've got a bunch of pieces, but I want to ask you, are developers excited about taking this legacy ... >> There's lots of news I'm going to analyze. >> Legacy applications, and like helping to move those in, or they only want to work on the cool new stuff? >> Oh, that's a huge theme. MTA. I forget what exactly the acronym stands for, but it's wrapping legacy applications, containerizing them in the Docker ecosystem. That is so important so all of these legacy applications will be Dockerized before long, and refactored, in addition to all the Greenfield development of containerized applications. So the MTA announcement, just as critical as the Moby announcement and so forth in terms, and EE as part of the show, of getting Docker, getting their ecosystem, getting developers working in this environment, more and more developers. This entire Docker, this entire ecosystem has a magnetic force on the developer community, or will. Those are very important. Also I thought the announcements with Microsoft, in terms of containers are going into Windows in a larger way, Linux containers and so forth, that also, 'cause Microsoft has a huge presence obviously in not only enterprise but small to midsize businesses. We're going to see Docker in ever-smaller deployments, hosts and so forth, across the board. More buyers, in other words, more companies will be Dockerizing more applications thanks to, in part, Microsoft as clearly a forerunner. >> Jim, absolutely. I say it at almost every cloud show. I want to follow the data and I want to follow the applications, and you had Microsoft and you had Oracle. You had two of the big players from an application standpoint, Oracle's now in the Docker store. >> Oracle's in the Docker store. That is huge. >> Yeah. >> That has validated containers and Docker for ... >> How about you? From the data standpoint, I heard, we talked to Iguazio about some of the analytics and things ... >> Jim: I'm a data guy, yeah. >> Yeah, you're a data guy. What's a data guy think at a show like this? Is it too infrastructure-focused, or did you see some of the data future here? >> No. It's infrastructure-focused in the sense that it needs to be to harden this technology for enterprise deployment, but it's really dev-ops focused, you know, Kubernetes and everything, and Swarm and whatnot. Look at all these vendors. Here are these tools for the dev-ops life cycle, Kubernetes and everything. That's really, really important. It's all about developers and speeding of development, and putting containerized Docker applications and images into production, and managing them and securing them and so forth. Just the sheer range of dev-ops tools on this show floor that's packing up now was amazing. I'm just uncracking my research here. Very important. So I'm going to wrap up. So, the adoption is amazing. I mean, all these industries, including like Visa. We had a swap-meet, who have adopted Docker into core applications that they're running major businesses on. That's some serious validation in its own right. >> Jim, one of the feedback I got from, it was actually John White from Expedient. >> Okay. >> talked about, and he said he deals with kind of small to mid, to little bit large enterprises, and he said, all that this keynote reminds us of AWS Re:Invent a couple of years ago. >> Oh yeah. >> Big global names. I mean, it's, you know, Visa. You know. Around the globe. Northern Trust. These are not, you know, your regional companies that did a little initiative. It's virtualization started in a lot of small environments. Containerization really started in the likes of Google. I remember the first DockerCon. It was Google and Facebook, and they're the ones that have been doing these projects pre-Docker, and it's slowly moving down. Part of the things I look at is where's the watermark >> Jim: Yeah. >> Where below this you're probably not going to do containers because you're going to go live on a platform that leverages container. The service writers I talked to ... >> Jim: They're going to live in a public cloud like Microsoft, or you know. >> Stu: The cloud guys. I'm going to go to, right, I'm going to go to Microsoft. I'm going to go to Oracle. >> Jim: AWS or IBM. >> Stu: I'm going to go AWS. >> Jim: Whoever it might be. >> Right. Any of them because they're going to just take care of that, and I won't care that it was containerized, so at the end of the day, it's not that tool, it's the wave of that modernization. >> Oh. Yeah, I want to end on a data note because we were talking about data. Okay. I thought Iguazio, I thought Yaron was very, that was very good to have him. There's a lot of storage foundations like Veritas and so forth, so storage in a Docker environment and persistent storage and data protection, pretty important, but also containerizing the new wave of applications that are machine-learning and deep learning and artificial intelligence. We got a fair look at some of that from Solomon yesterday because Solomon mentioned that the open AI consortium is based in their internal test bed training network on Docker, on Swarm and so forth. I, in my prior life, I just joined Wikibon a few weeks ago, I've focused on data science, which is a key development theme, by the way, I'll focus on for Wikibon. I saw a lot of containerization. I saw a fair amount of Docker and a lot of the data science oriented app dev that was going on in the business world. That's going to be a huge theme for me under Wikibon, but also, I mean Solomon sort of alluded to a lot, and so did Yaron, a lot of the work that's going on in the AI community Dockerized their application. Tenser flowing, all that. Huge theme we'll probably see much more of at next year's DockerCon I predict containerizing AI. >> All right. Well. >> For deployment into autonomous vehicles. Whatever. >> Jim, you've long been a CUBE alumn, but now you are a veteran of doing the CUBE. I really appreciate you coming on. >> I'm on this side of the table now. It's amazing. >> Stu: I want to give a shout out to the whole team here. John Furrier, I know, was really disappointed. He loves this show. Usually my co-host. A lot of these open-sourced shows. John, you better be down here in Austin for CUBECon at the end of the year with me. So many shows now through July 4th. The CUBE has so many activities going on. If you go to theCUBE.net, you can see all of our upcoming shows. Always watch us live. If we're not at the show that you think we should be at, go ahead and Ping us. Reach out to us through Twitter or through the website. Jim's research, a lot of it's going to be on Wikibon.com. Siliconangle.com is also where we have some research corner, some of the other pieces there, so check out the whole SiliconANGLE Media for Jim, myself, Ava, Leonard, Brandon, Jay, Sam, who's already heading to the airport. Thank you so much for watching The CUBE. Hope to see you at lots of shows coming around and thank you for sharing.

>> Narrator: From Austin, Texas, it's theCUBE covering DockerCon 2017, brought to you by Docker and support from it's ecosystem partners. (upbeat music) >> Hi, and we're back, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is SilconANGLES production of the Cube, here at DockerCon 2017, Austin, Texas. Happy to have on the program Kiran Kamity, who was CEO of ContainerX which was acquired by Cisco. And you're currently the senior director and head of container products at Cisco. And also joining us is Brad Wong, who is the director of product management at Docker. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. >> Brad: Thanks for having us. [Kiran] Thank you, Stu. >> So Kiran, talk a little bit about ContainerX, you know, bring us back to, why containers, you know why you help start a company with containers, and when to be acquired by a big company like Cisco. >> Yeah, it was actually late 2014 is when Pradeep and I, my co-founder from ContainerX, we started brainstorming about, you know, what do we do in the space and the fact that the space was growing, and my previous company called RingCube, which has sold to Citrix, where we had actually built a container between 2006 and 2010. So we wanted to build a management platform for containers, and it was in a way there was little bit of an overlap with Docker Datacenter, but we were focusing on mostly tendency aspects of it. Bringing in concepts like viamordi rs into containers et cetera. And we were acquired by Cisco about eight months ago now, and the transition in the last eight months has been fantastic. >> Great, and Brad, you're first time on the cube, so give us your background, what brought you to Docker? >> Yeah, so actually before Docker I was at actually, a veteran of Cisco, interestingly enough. Many different ventures in Cisco, most recently I was actually part of the Insieme Networks team, focusing on the software defined networking, and Application Centric Infrastructure. Obviously I saw a pretty trend in the infrastructure space, that the future of infrastructure is being led by applications and developers. With that I actually got to start digging around with Docker quite a lot, found some good interest, and we started talking, and essentially that's how I ended up at Docker, to look at our partner ecosystem, how we can evolve that. Two years ago now, actually. >> I think two years ago Docker networking was a big discussion point. Cisco's been a partner there, but bring us up to speed if you would, both of you, on where you're engaging, on the engineering side, customer side, and the breadth and depth of what you're doing. >> You're right, two years ago, networking was in quite a different place. We kicked it off with acquiring a company back then called SocketPlane, which helped us really define-- >> Yeah and we know actually, ---- and ----, two alums, actually I know those guys, from the idea to starting the company, to doing acquisition was pretty quick for you and for them. >> Right, and we felt that we really needed to bring on board a good solid networking DNA into the company. We did that, and they helped us define what a successful model would be for networking which is why they came up with things like the container networking model, and live network, which then actually opened the door for our partners to then start creating extensions to that, and be able to ride on top of that to offer more advanced networking technologies like Contiv for example. >> Contiv was actually an open source project that was started within Cisco, even before the container was acquisitioned. Right after the acquisition happened, that team got blended into our team and we realized that there were some really crown jewels in Contiv that we wanted to productize. We've been working with Docker for the last six months now trying to productize that, and we went from alpha to beta to g a. Now Contiv is g a today, and it was announced in a blog post today, and it's actually 100% open-source networking product that Cisco TAC and Cisco advanced services have offered commercial support and services support. It's actually a unique moment, because this is the fist 100% open-source project that Cisco TAC has actually offered commercial support for, so it's a pretty interesting milestone I think. >> I think also with that, we also have it available on Docker store as well. It's actually the first Docker networking plug-in that it's been certified as well. We're pretty also happy to have that on there as well. >> Yeah. >> Anything else for the relationship we want to go in beyond those pieces? >> We also saw that there was a lot of other great synergies between the two companies as well. The first thing we wanted to do was to look at how we can also make it a lot better experience for joint customers to get Docker up and running, Docker Enterprise Edition up and running on infrastructure, specifically on Cisco infrastructure, so Cisco UCS. So we also kicked off a series of activities to test and validate and document how Docker Enterprise Edition can run on Cisco UCS, Nexus platforms, et cetera. We went ahead with that and a couple months later we brought out, jointly, to our Cisco validated designs for Docker Enterprise Edition. One on Cisco UCS infrastructure alone, and the other one jointly with NetApp as well, with the FlexPod Solution. So we're also very very happy with that as well. >> Great. Our community I'm sure knows the CVD's from what they are out there. UCS was originally designed to be the infrastructure for virtualized environments. Can you walk me through, what other significant differences there or anything kind of changing to move to containers versus what UCS for virtualized environment. >> The goal with that, UCS is esentially considered a premium kind of infrastructure server infrastructure for our customers. Not only can they run virtual environments today, but our goal is as containers become mainstreamed, containers evolved to being a first-class citizen alongside VM. We have to provide our customers with a solution that they need. And a turnkey solution from a Cisco standpoint is to take something like a Docker stack, or other stacks that our customer stopped, such as Kubernetes or other stacks as well, and offer them turnkey kind of experience. So with Docker Data Center what we have done is the CVD that we've announced so far has Docker Data Center, and the recipe provides an easy way for customers to get started with USC on Docker Data Center so that they get that turnkey experience. And with the MTA program that was announced, today at the key note. So that allows Cisco and Docker to work even more closely together to have not just the products, but also provide services to ensure that customers can completely sort of get started very very easily with support from advanced services and things like that. >> Great, I'm wondering if you have any customer examples that you can talk through. If you can't talk about a specific, logo, maybe you can talk about. Or if there are key verticals that you see that you're engaging first, or what can you share? >> We've been working joint customer evals, actually a couple of them. Once again I don't think we can point out the names yet. We haven't fully disclosed, or cleared it with their Prs Definitely into financials. Especially the online financials, a significant company that we've been working with jointly that has actually adopted both Contiv, and is actually seeing quite a lot of value in being able to take Docker, and also leverage the networking stack that Contiv provides. And be able to not just orchestrate networking policies for containers, but the other thing that they want to do is to have those same policies be able to run on cloud infrastructure, like EWS for example. So they obviously see that Docker is a great platform to be enable their affordability between on premises and also public cloud. But at the same time be able to leverage these kind of tools that makes that transition, and makes that move a lot easier so they don't have to re-think their security networking policies all over again. That's been actually a pretty used case I thought of the joint work that we did together with Contiv. >> Some of the customers that we've been talking to in fact we have one customer that I don't think I'm supposed say the name just yet, but we've drollled it out, has drolled out Contiv with the Docker on time. In five production data centers already. And these are the kind of customers that actually take to advanced networking capabilites that Contiv offers so that they can comprehensive L2 networking, L3 networking. Their monitoring pools that they currently use will be able to address the containers, because the L2, the L3 networking capabilities allows each container to have an IP address that is externally addressable, so that the current monitoring tools that you use for VMs et cetera can completely stay relevant, and be applicable in the container world. If you have an ACI fabric that continues to work with containers. So those are some of the reasons why these customers seem to like it. >> Kiran, you're relatively new into Cisco, and you were a software company. Many people they still think of Cisco as a networking company. I've heard people derogatory it's like, "Oh they made hardware define networking when they rolled out some of this stuff." Tell us about, you talk about an open source project that you guys are doing. I've talked to Lou Tucker a number of times. I know some of the software things you guys are doing. Give us your viewpoint as to your new employer, and how they might be different than people think of as the Cisco that we've known for decades. >> Cisco is, has of course it has, you know, several billion dollars of revenue coming in from hardware and infrastructure. And networking and security have been the bread and the butter for the company for many many years now But as the world moves to Cloud-Native becoming a first class citizen, the goal is really to provide complete solutions to our customers. And if you think of complete solutions, those solutions include things like networking, thing like security. Including analytics, and complete management platforms. At the same time, at the end of the day, the customers want to come to peace with the fact that this is a multi-cloud world Customers have data centers on premises, or on hosted private cloud environments. They have workloads that are running on public clouds. So with products like cloud center, our goal is to make sure that whatever they, the applications that they have, can be orchestrated across these multiple clouds. We want to make sure that the pain points the customers have around deploying whole solutions include easy set-up of products on infrastructure that they have, and that includes partnerships like UCS, or running on ACI or Nexus. We want to make sure that we give that turnkey experience to these customers. We want to make sure that those workloads can be moved across and run across these different clouds. That's where products like cloud center come in. We want to make sure that these customers have top grade analytics, which is completely software. That's were the app dynamics acquisition comes in. And we want to make sure that we provide that turnkey experience with support in terms of services. With our massive services organization, partners, et cetera. We view this as our job is to provide our customers what they need in terms of the end solution that they're looking for. And so it's not just hardware, it's just a part of it. Software, services, et cetera, complimented. >> Alright, Brad last question that I have for you in the keynote yesterday, I couldn't count how many times the word ecosystem was used. I think it was loud and clear that everybody there I think it was like, you know, Docker will not be successful unless it's partners are successful, kind of vice versa. When you look at kind of the product development piece of things, how does that resonate with you and the job that you're doing? >> We basically are seeing Docker become more of a, more and more of a platform as evidenced by yesterdays keynote. Every platform, the only way that platform's going to be successful is if we can do great, we have great options for our partners, like Cisco, to be able to integrate with us on multiple different levels, not just on one place. The networking plug-in is just one example. Many many other places as well Yesterday we announced two new open source initiatives. Lennox kit and also the movi project. You can imagine that there's probably lots of great places where partners like Cisco can actually play in there, not just only in the service fees, but maybe also in things like IOT as well, which is also a fast-emerging place for us to be. And all the way up until day two type of monitoring, type of environment as well where we think there's a lot of great places where once again, options like app dynamics, tetration analytics can fit in quite nicely with how do you take applications that have been migrated or modernized into containers, and start really tracking those using a common tool set. So we think that's really really good opportunities for our ecosystem partners to really innovate in those spaces, and to differentiate as well. >> Kiran, I want to give you the final word, take-aways that you want the users here, and those out watching the show to know about, you know, Cisco, and the Docker environment. >> I want to let everybody know that Cisco is not just hardware. Our goal is to provide turnkey complete solutions and experiences to our customers. And as they walk through this journey of embracing Cloud-Native workloads, and containerized workload there's various parts of the problem, that include all the way from hardware, to running analytics, to networking, to security, and services help, and Cisco as a company is here to offer that help, and make sure that the customers can walk away with turnkey solutions and experiences. >> Kiran and Brad, thank you so much for joining us. We'll be back with more coverage here. Day two, DockerCon 2017, you're watching theCube.

>> Announcer: Live from Austin, Texas, It's theCUBE, covering DockerCon 2017. Brought to you by Docker and support from its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE here in Austin, Texas at DockerCon 2017. I'm Stu Miniman with my cohost for the two days of live broadcast, Jim Kobielus. Happy to welcome back to the program, John Gossman, who is the lead architect with Microsoft Azure. Also part of the keynote this morning. John, had the pleasure of interviewing you two years ago. We went though the obligatory wait, Microsoft Open Source, Linux, and Windows and everything living together. It's like cats and dogs. But thanks so much for joining us again. >> Yeah well as I was saying, that's 14 years in cloud years. So it's been a lot of change in that time, but thanks for having me again. >> Yeah. Absolutely. You said it was three years that you've been working Microsoft and Docker together. 21 years in it, dog or cloud years, if you will. I think Docker is more whales and turtles, as opposed to the dogs. But enough about the cartoons and the animals. Why don't you give our audience just a synopsis of kind of the key messages you were trying to get across in the keynote this morning. >> Okay well the very simple message is that what we enabled this new technology, Hyper-V isolation for Linux containers, is the ability to run Linux containers just seamlessly on Windows using the normal Docker experience. It's just Docker run, BusyBox or Docker run, MySQL, or whatever it is, and it just works. And of course if you know a little more technical detail about containers, you realize that one of the reasons that the containers are the way there are is that all the containers on a box normally share a kernel. And so you can run a Canonical, Ubuntu on user space, on a Red Hat kernel or vice versa. But Windows and Linux kernels are too different. So if you want to run Windows container, it's not going to run easily on Linux and vice versa. And you can still get this effect, if you want it, by also using a virtual machine. But then you've got the management overhead of managing the virtual machine, managing the containers, all the complexity that that involves. You have to get a VHD or AMI or something like that, as well a container image and you lose a lot of that sort of experience. >> John, first of all, I have to say congratulations to Microsoft. When the announcement was made that Windows containers were going to be developed, I have to say that I and most of my peers were a little bit skeptical as to how fast that would work; the development cycle. Probably because we have lots of experience and it's always okay, we understand how many man years this usually takes, but you guys hit and were delivering, got through the Betas, so can you speak to us about where we are with Windows containers? And one of the things people want to kind of understand is, compared to like Linux containers, how do you expect the adoption of that now that it's generally available to roll out? Do I have to wait for the next server refresh, OS refresh, how do you expect your customers to adopt and embrace? >> Well we were able to get this to work so quickly because if you remember, Docker didn't actually invent containers. They took a bunch of kernel primitives that were in Linux and put a really great user experience on it. And I'm not taking anything away from Docker by doing that, because oftentimes in the technology industry, it's easy to make something that was complicated, powerful, but not easy to use. And Windows already had a lot of those kernel primitives, same sort of similar kind of kernel primitives built-in. They had to take out Java javax, I think when Windows 2000. And so it was kind of the same experience. We took the Docker engine, so we got the API, we were using the open source project, so we have complete compatibility. And then we just had to write a basically a new back-end, and that's why it was able to come up rather quickly. And now we're in a mode you know, Windows server updates things more incrementally, than we did in the past. So this will just keep on improving as time goes on. >> Okay, one of the other big announcements in the keynote this morning was LinuxKit. And it was open source project, we actually saw Solomon move it to open source during the keynote, when they laid out the ecosystems for it like IBM, HPE, INTEL and Microsoft. So what does that mean for Microsoft? You are now a provider of Linux? How are we supposed to look at this? >> Yeah. So we're working with all the Linux vendors. So if you saw our blog about the work we did today. We also have announcements from SUSE and Red Hat and Canonical, and the usual people. And one of the things I said in this box, I said look there's the new model is that you could choose both the Linux container that you want and the kernel that you want to run it on. And we're open to all sorts of things. But we have been working with Docker for a long time. On making sure that there was a great experience for running Docker for Linux on Windows. This thing called Docker for Windows. Which they developed. And we have been helping out. And that's basically an earlier generation of this same Linux technology. So it's just the next step on that journey. >> Microsoft's pretty well recognized to have a robust solution for a hybrid cloud. Cause of course you go your Azure stack, that you're putting on premises. There's Azure itself, it's really the cloud first methodology that you've been rolling through and you offer as a service. Containers really anywhere in your environment, baked in anywhere? How should we be thinking about this going forward? >> Yeah absolutely. I mean one of the points of containers in general, one of the attractive parts of containers is that they run everywhere. Including from your laptop, to the various clouds to bare metal, to virtualized environments. And so we have both things. We want Windows containers, where we're the vendor of the container. We want those to work everywhere. And we also, as the vendors of Azure and Azure Stack, and just server system center, and other older enterprise technologies. We want containers to work on all those things. So both directions. I mean, that's kind of the world we're in now, where everything works everywhere. >> Can you square you container strategy as reflected in your partnership with Docker, With your serverless computer strategy for Azure Functions? I'm trying to get a sense for Microsoft's overall approach to running containers as it relates to the Azure strategy. >> In some ways, you can think of this as a serverless functions mode as a step even further. You just deploy a hardware machine and install everything on it. Next thing, you'd have a virtual machine and you install everything. And then you put your code and all its affinities to the container. And with serverless with Azure Functions, it's like, well why do any of that? Just write a function. Now at the same time, we think there's lots of reasons. Under the covers, all of these past systems, going all the way back, that's how Docker started. Run a container underneath the covers. in the same place, it's not literally a Docker container, but the same place down in functions has that sort of a capability. And we're certainly thinking about how Docker can handle for work in that serverless model in the future. >> See one of my core focus areas for Wikibon as an analyst, is looking at developers going more deeply into deep learning and machine learning. To what extent is Microsoft already taking its core tools in that area and containerizing them and enabling access to that functionality through serverless APIs and functions and so forth in Azure? On the serverless stuff, I'm not on the serverless team. I'm not really qualified to explain everything on their end. I do know that the CNT team has a Docker container that they put the bits in. There's the Azure Machine Learning team who's been working a lot of these sort of technologies. I'm just not the right guy to answer that question. >> As you talk to your customers, where does this fit in to the whole discussion? Do containers just happen in the background? Is it helping them with some of their application modernization? Does it help Microsoft change the way we architect things? What's kind of the practitioner, your ultimate end user viewpoint on this? Well cloud adoption is at all points on the curve simultaneously. Even the inside of individual companies. So everybody's in it, in a kind of different place. The two models that I think people have really concentrated on, is on one end, the path at least is infrastructure where you just bring your existing applications and another one would be PADS, where you rewrite the application for a more modern architecture, more cloud centric architecture. And containers fit kind of squarely in the middle of that in some respects. Because in many ways and primarily, I see Docker containers as a better form of infrastructure. It is an easier, more portable way to get all your dependency together and run them everywhere. So a lot of lift-and-shift works is in there, but once you're in containers, it is also easier to break the components apart and put them back together into a more microservice oriented cloud-native model. >> I think that's a great point because we've been having this discussion about okay, there's applications that I'm rewriting, but then I've got this huge amount of applications that I need some way to have the bridge to the future, if you will. Because I don't know, there's one analyst firm that calls it bimodal, but to customers we talked to in general, we don't segment everything we do. I have application type infrastructure and I need to be able to live across multiple environments. Wrapping versus refactoring. >> And they do both. But I always prefer to, you know some people come in and they talk about legacy and they're developers. I'm a developer, right? Developers we always want to rewrite everything. And there's a time and place to doing that. But the legacy applications are required for those applications to work. And if you don't need to refactor that thing, if you can get it into a container or virtual machine or however, and get it into that more environment, and then work around it, re-architect it, it's a whole different set of approaches. It's a good conversation to have with a customer to understand. I've seen people go both too slow, and I see people refactor their whole thing and then try to figure out how to get it to work again. >> So Microsoft has a gigantic user base, What kind of things are you doing to help educate and help the people that had certification or jobs were running exchange to move towards this new kind of world and cloud in general. And containers specifically maybe. >> Well we have a ton of stuff. I'm not familiar with the certification programs myself, but we certainly have our Developer Evangelism team, out going out training people. We've been trying to improve our documentation. And we have a bunch of guidance on cloud migration and things like that. There is a real challenge and it's the same problem for our customers and anybody looking at cloud. Is to re-educate people who have been working in some of their previous moment. Which is another reason again, where the lift and shift stuff is, you can make it more like it is on Premise, or more like it is on your laptop. It makes that journey a little easier. But we're indefinitely in one of those points where the industry is changing so fast, I personally have to spend a lot of time, What's going on? What happened this day? What's new today coming to the conference, I learn new things. >> You bring up a huge challenge that we see. I kind of like Docker has their two delivery models. They've got the Community Edition, CE, and the Enterprise Edition, EE. An EE feels more like traditional software. It's packaged, it's on the regular release cycle. CE is, Solomon talked this morning about the edge pieces. Can I keep up with every six months, or can I have stuff flying at me? People inside of Docker can't keep up with the pace of change that much. What do you see, I mean, I think back to the major Windows operating system releases that we used to, like the Intel tick-tock on releases. It's the pace of change is tough for everyone, how are you helping, you know with you product development and customers, you know, take advantage of things and try to keep up with this rapidly changing ecosystem? >> This is a constant challenge with physically software now. We can't afford to only ever ship things every three years. And at the same time there's stability. So with the major products like Windows, we have these stable branches, where things are pretty much the same going along. And then there's an inactive branch Where things are coming down and the changes and the updates are coming. I'd say the one biggest difference I'd say, but you know I've been in this industry for a long time. So say between the '90s and now, is that we have so much of it is actually off servers. Where when something crashes, we get a crash dump and we can debug the thing and so going out in the field we have much more capability in finding what's going on in the customer base than we did 20 years ago. But other than that, it's just a really hard challenge to both satisfy people that can't have anything to change, and everything changing. >> John you've been watching this for a number of years, what do we still have left to do? We come back to DockerCon next year, you know, we'll have more people, it'll be a bigger event, but you know, what's the progression, what kind of things are you looking forward to the ecosystem and yourself and Docker, knocking down and moving customers forward with? >> The first year was kind of like, what is this thing? Second year was now, the individual Docker container is there now how do you orchestrate them and next step is how do we network these things. And there's an initiative now to standardize on storage, for storage systems and docker containers. Monitoring. There's a lot of things that are still to do. We have a long ways to go. On the other side, I think this other track, which we talked about today, which is that virtualization and containers are going to blur and mend, and I don't think that seven years from now we're going to be talking about containers or virtual machines, we're just going to be saying it's some unit of compute and then there's so much in knobs and tweaks that you want it a little more isolated, you want it a little less isolated, you trade off some performance for something else. >> Business capability, in other words the enterprise architecture framework of business capabilities, will be paramount in terms of composing applications or microservices. From what I understand you saying. >> Yeah, I think where we're really going to get to is a model where people we get past this basics of storage of networking and start working up the next level So things like Helm or DCS Universe, or Storm Stacks, where you can describe more of an application, it just keeps moving up. And so I think in seven years, we won't be talking so much about this, it'll some other disruption, right? But there won't be talking about this virtualization layer as much as building apps again. >> On a visual composition of microservices, what is Microsoft doing, you say that you long ago entered Microsoft during the Vizio acquisition, what's Microsoft doing to enable more visual composition across these functions, across orchestrated team-like environments going forward? >> I think there is some work going on. It's not my area again, on visual composition, despite the fact that I came from Vizio. I kind of got away from that space >> Well I'm betraying my age. I remember that period. >> All right. Well John, always a pleasure catching up with you and thank you so much for joining us for this segment. Look forward to watching Microsoft going forward. >> Thanks. Thank you for having me. We'll be back with lots more coverage here from DockerCon 2017. You're watching theCUBE.

>> [Narrator] Live from New York, it's theCUBE! Covering the IBM Machine Learning Launch Event, brought to you by IBM. Now, here are your hosts: Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. >> Hi everybody, we're back, this is theCUBE. We're live at the IBM Machine Learning Launch Event. Barry Baker is here, he's the Vice President of Offering Management for z Systems. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for coming on! >> Well, it's my first time, thanks for having me! >> A CUBE newbie, alright! Let's get right into it! >> [Barry Baker] Go easy! >> So, two years ago, January of 2015, we covered the z13 launch. The big theme there was bringing analytics and transactions together, z13 being the platform for that. Today, we're hearing about machine learning on mainframe. Why machine learning on mainframe, Barry? >> Well, for one, it is all about the data on the platform, and the applications that our clients have on the platform. And it becomes a very natural fit for predictive analytics and what you can get from machine learning. So whether you're trying to do churn analysis or fraud detection at the moment of the transaction, it becomes a very natural place for us to inject what is pretty advanced capability from a machine learning perspective into the mainframe environment. We're not trying to solve all analytics problems on the mainframe, we're not trying to become a data lake, but for the applications and the data that reside on the platform, we believe it's a prime use case that our clients are waiting to adopt. >> Okay, so help me think through the use case of I have all this transaction data on the mainframe. Not trying to be a data lake, but I've got this data lake elsewhere, that might be useful for some of the activity I want to do. How do I do that? I'm presuming I'm not extracting my sensitive transaction data and shipping it into the data lake. So, how am I getting access to some of that social data or other data? >> Yeah, and we just saw an example in the demo pad before, whereby the bulk of the data you want to perform scoring on, and also the machine learning on to build your models, is resident on the mainframe, but there does exist data out there. In the example we just saw, it was social data. So the demo that was done was how you can take and use IBM Bluemix and get at key pieces of social data. Not a whole mass of the volume of unstructured data that lives out there. It's not about bringing that to the platform and doing machine learning on it. It's about actually taking a subset of that data, a filtered subset that makes sense to be married with the bigger data set that sits on the platform. And so that's how we envision it. We provide a number of ways to do that through the IBM Machine Learning offering, where you can marry data sources from different places. But really, the bulk of the data needs to be on z and on the platform for it to make sense to have this workload running there. >> Okay. One of the big themes, of course, that IBM puts forth is platform modernization, application modernization. I think it kind of started with Linux on z? Maybe there were other examples, but that was a big one. I don't know what the percentage is, but a meaningful percentage of workloads running on z are Linux-based, correct? >> Yeah, so, the way I would view it is it's still today that the majority of workload on the platform is z/OS based, but Linux is one of our fastest growing workloads on the platform. And it is about how do you marry and bring other capabilities and other applications closer to the systems of record that is sitting there on z/OS. >> So, last week, at AnacondaCON, you announced Anaconda on z, certainly Spark, a lot of talk on Spark. Give us the update on the sort of tooling. >> We recognized a few years back that Spark was going to be key to our platform longer-term. So, contrary to what people have seen from z in the past, we jumped on it fast. We view it as an enabling technology, an enabling piece of infrastructure that allows for analytics solutions to be built and brought to market really rapidly. And the machine learning announcement today is proof of that. In a matter of months, we've been able to take the cloud-based IBM Watson Machine Learning offering and have the big chunk of it run on the mainframe, because of the investment we made in spark a year and a half ago, two years ago. We continue to invest in Spark, we're at 2.0.2 level. The announcement last week around Anaconda is, again, how do we continue to bring the right infrastructure, from an analytics perspective, onto the platform. And you'll see later, maybe in the session, where the roadmap for ML isn't just based on Spark. The roadmap for ML also requires us to go after and provide new runtimes and new languages on the platform, like Python and Anaconda in particular. So, it's a coordinated strategy where we're laying the foundation on the infrastructure side to enable the solutions from the analytics unit. >> Barry, when I hear about streaming, it reminds me of the general discussion we've been having with customers about digital transformation. How does mainframe fit into that digital mandate that you hear from customers? >> That's a great, great question. From our perspective, we've come out of the woods of many of our discussions with clients being about, I need to move off the platform, and rather, I need to actually leverage this platform, because the time it's going to take me to move off this platform, by the time I do that, digital's going to overwash me and I'm going to be gone." So the very first step that our clients take, and some of our leading clients take, on the platform for digital transformation, is moving toward standard RESTful APIs, taking z/OS Connect Enterprise Edition, putting that in front of their core, mission-critical applications and data stores, and enabling those assets to be exposed externally. And what's happening is those clients then build out new engaging mobile web apps that are then coming directly back to the mainframe at those high value assets. But in addition, what that is driving is a whole other set of interaction patterns that we're actually able to see on the mainframe in how they're being used. So, opening up the API channel is the first step our clients are taking. Next is how do they take the 200 billion lines of COBOL code that is out there in the wild, running on these systems, and how do they over time modernize it? And we have some leading clients that are doing very tight integration whereby they have a COBOL application, and as they want to make changes to it, we give them the ability to make changes in it, but do it in Java, or do it in another language, a more modern language, tightly integrated with the COBOL runtime. So, we call that progressive modernization. It's not about come in and replace the whole app and rewrite that thing. That's one next step on the journey, and then as the clients start to do that, they start to really need to lay down a continuous integration, continuous delivery tool chain, building a whole dev ops end-to-end flow. That's kind of the path that our clients are on for really getting much more faster and getting more productivity out of their development side of things. And in turn, the platform is now becoming a platform that they can deliver results on, just like they could on any other platform. >> That's big because a lot of customers use to complain, well, I can't get COBOL skills or, you know, and so IBM's answer was often, well, we got 'em. You can outsource it to us and that's not always the preferred approach so, glad to hear you're addressing that. On the dev ops discussion, you know, a lot of times dev ops is about breaking stuff. How about the main frame workload's all about not breaking stuff so, waterfall, more traditional methodologies are still appropriate. Can you help us understand how customers are dealing with that, sort of, schism. >> Yeah, I think dev ops, some people would come at it and say, that's just about moving fast and breaking some eggs and cleaning up the mess and then moving forward from but from our perspective it's, that's not it, right? That can't be it for our customers because of the criticality of these systems will not allow that so from our, our dev ops model is not so much about move fast and break some eggs, it's about move fast in smaller increments and in establishing clear chains and a clear pipeline with automated test suites getting executed and run at each phase of the pipeline before you move to production. So, we're not going to... And our approach is not to compromise on quality as you kind of move towards dev ops and we have, internally, our major subsystems right? So, KIX, IMS, DB2. They're all on their own journey to deliver and move towards continuous integration in dev ops internally. So, we're eating our own... We're dog fooding this here, right? We're building our own teams around this and we're not seeing a decline in quality. In fact, as we start to really fix and move testing to the left, as they call it, shift left testing, right? Earlier in the cycle you regression test. We are seeing better quality come because of that effort. >> You put forth this vision, as I said, at the top of this segment. Vision, this vision of bringing data in analytics, in transactions together. That was the Z13 announcement. But the reality is, a lot of customers would have their main frame and then they'd have, you know, some other data warehouse, some infiniband pipe, maybe to that data warehouse was there approximation of real time. So, the vision that you put forth was to consolidate that. And has that happened? Are you starting to do that? What are they doing with the data warehouse? >> So, we're starting to see it. I mean, and frankly, we have clients that struggle with that model, right? And that's precisely why we have a very strong point of view that says, if this is data that you're going to get value from, from an analytics perspective and you can use it on the platform, moving it off the platform is going to create a number of challenges for you. And we've seen it first hand. We've seen companies that ETL the data off the platform. They end up with 9, 10, 12 copies of the data. As soon as you do that, the data is, it's old, it's stale and so any insights you derive are then going to be potentially old and stale as well. The other side of it is, our customers in the industries that heavy users of the mainframe, finance, banking, healthcare. These are heavily regulated industries that are getting more regulated. And they're under more pressure to ensure governance and, in their meeting, the various regulation needs. As soon as you start to move that data off the platform, your problem just got that much harder. So, we are seeing a shift in approaches and it's going to take some time for clients to get past this, right? Because, enterprise data warehouse is a pretty big market and there's a lot of them out there but we're confident that for specific use cases, it makes a great deal of sense to leave the data where it is bring the analytics as close to that data as possible, and leverage the insight right there at the point of impact as opposed to pushing it off. >> How about the economics? So, I have talked, certainly talked to customers that understand it for a lot of the work that they're doing. Doing it on the Z platform is more cost effective than maybe, try to manage a bunch of, you know, bespoke X86 boxes, no question. But at the end of the day, there's still that CAPEX. What is IBM doing to help customers, sort of, absorb, you know, the costs and bring together, more aggressively, analytic and transaction data. >> Yeah, so, in agreement a 100%, I think we can create the best technology in the world but if we don't close on the financials, it's not going to go anywhere, it's not going to get, it's not going to move. So, from an analytics perspective, just starting at the ground level with spark, even underneath the spark layer, there are things we've done in the hardware to accelerate performance and so that's one layer. Then you move into spark. Well, spark is running on our java, our JDK and it takes advantage of using and being moved off to the ziip offload processors. So, those processors alone are lower cost than general purpose processors. We then have additionally thought this through, in terms of working with clients and seeing that, you know, a typical use case for running spark on the platform, they require three or four ziips and then a hundred, two hundred gig of additional memory. We've come at that as a, let's do a bundled offer and with you that comes in and says, for that workload, we're going to come in with a different price point for you. So, the other side of it is, we've been delivering over the last couple of years, ways to isolate workload from a software license cost perspective, right. 'Cause the other knock that people will say is, as I add new workload it impacts all the rest of my software Well, no. There are multiple paths forward for you to isolate that workload, add new workload to the platform and not have it impact your existing MLC charges so we continue to actually evolve that and make that easier to do but that's something we're very focused on. >> But that's more than just, sort of an LPAR or... >> Yeah, so there's other ways we could do that with... (mumbles) We're IBM so there's acronyms right. So there's ZCAP and there's all other pricing mechanisms that we can take advantage of to help you, you know, the way I simply say it is, we have to enable for new workload, we need to enable the pricing to be supportive of growth, right, not protecting and so we are very focused on, how do we do this in the right way that clients can adopt it, take advantage of the capabilities and also do it in a cost effective way. >> And what about security? That's another big theme that you guys have put forth. What's new there? >> Yeah so we have a lot underway from the security perspective. I'm going to say stay tuned, more to come there but there's a heavy investment, again, going back to what our clients are struggling with and that we hear in day in and day out, is around how do I ensure, you know, and how do I do encryption pervasively across the platform for all of the data being managed by the system, how do I do that with ease, and how do I do that without having to drive changes at the application layer, having to drive operational changes. How do I enable these systems to get that much more secure with these and low cost. >> Right, because if you... In an ideal world you'd encrypt everything but there's a cost of doing that. There are some downstream nuances with things like compression >> Yup. >> And so forth so... Okay, so more to come there. We'll stay tuned. >> More to come. >> Alright, we'll give you the final word. Big day for you, guys so congratulations on the announcement You got a bunch of customers who're comin' in very shortly. >> Yeah no... It's extremely, we're excited to be here. We think that the combination of IBM systems, working with the IBM analytics team to put forward an offering that pulls key aspects of Watson and delivers it on the mainframe is something that will get noticed and actually solve some real challenges so we're excited. >> Great. Barry, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE, appreciate it >> Thanks for having me. Thanks for going easy on me. >> You're welcome. Keep it right there. We'll be back with our next guest, right after this short break. (techno music)