(upbeat music) >> Hey, everyone, welcome to theCUBE's live coverage of the Women in Data Science Worldwide Conference 2022. I'm your host, Lisa Martin, coming to you live from Stanford University. I'm pleased to welcome fresh from the main stage, Tina Hernandez-Boussard the Associate Professor of medicine here at Stanford. Tina, it's great to have you on the program. >> Thank you so much for this opportunity. I love being here and I've been coming to WIDS for many years, so it's exciting to be part of this and participate. >> It is exciting, it's one of my favorite events since I was telling you before we went live. And if you think about, they only started back in 2015. And how it's now, it was a one day technical conference and now it's this worldwide- >> It's amazing >> Phenomenon in 60 countries, and Just 200 different local events. Talk to me about, I caught part of the panel that you were on this morning. And one of the things that I love that you were talking about was mentors and sponsors. Talk to me about what you guys were talking about on the panel overall and some of who your mentors were as you came up in your career. >> Yeah, so mentorship is so important and really it makes a difference in people's careers. So I come from first generation family. No one in my family has had any higher education. So having a mentor, an academic mentor just made all the difference in the world for me. So I started undergraduate and I was immediately paired with somebody, a mentor because I was first generation. And this person, he's no longer with us today, but he believed in me and he opened doors for me. And he opened my eyes to all of these different opportunities. And having somebody who believes in you and really can help you pursue these other ideas, it's so important. And so we talked about in the panel, we talked about the importance of having a mentor but we also talked about the importance of being a mentor. And you know, helping people and students coming into the field, find that place and develop the confidence that this is for everybody. There's something for everybody here. And you've got to try, you've got to put your name out there. And having support is really important. >> Oh, it's critical. Even some interviews I was doing last week for International Women's Day which is tomorrow, I was surprised at the number of women that I talked to who said, well, I was told no, no you can't study computer science. No, you can't study physics and talking- >> This is a really difficult field, are you sure you want to pursue this? Well, yeah. You know, yeah. >> So having those mentors and that encouragement to help build that confidence from within is a game changer. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Tell me a little bit about your research. >> Yeah, so we use electronic health data, all types of different health data to really define and predict prognose healthcare outcomes. We develop AI algorithms, tools to analyze the data and we really try, and one incorporate the patient's voice in the tools we develop. And two, we try and get those back to point of care. So I think a lot of emphasis has been about model development and model performance, and we really focus on, okay, that's great but it's only useful if we can get it back to the hands of the clinician, back to the patients to really improve health outcomes. And so that's a big piece of what we do. And as part of that, understanding patient values and patient preferences is really a big, important aspect of developing optimal treatment and optimal models. >> That's good involving them in the process. How can data science promote health equity? First of all, what is health equity, and how can data science help drive it? >> So health equity is really an important topic and there's a lot of different definitions about what is health equity. Health equity, what we want is we want equal outcomes and that's not equal resources. And so a lot of times, there's this contingency behind, you know are we trying to have equal resources for every patient or is it equal outcomes? And so we really focus on equal outcomes. We want everyone to have the opportunity to have the same outcomes. So health equity requires that we really think about different populations and their different needs, different preferences, et cetera. So that's what we focus on. And so to your question about how data science can promote health equity, one of the things we've been working on is really thinking about the gold standard of clinical care which is the clinical trial, right? So a clinical trial is our gold standard for what treatments work, in what situation and for what populations. However, a lot of the clinical trials are developed in a non-represented population, right? So we have to have patients who can come into the care setting at multiple times during a period, they can't have particular diseases, They can't, you know, for example, in one particular trial we were looking at, they had to have a specific BMI, they couldn't have diabetes they couldn't have all of these other healthcare conditions which at the end of the day it doesn't really represent the community at risk. And so when we develop these models using clinical trial data, a lot of times it's not generalizable to routine care. And so AI can really help that. AI can help us understand, how we can better identify patients to include in trials, what patients are going to be more likely to complete the trials. And so there's a lot of opportunity there to think about how we diversify clinical trials and also how we can start thinking stimulating and doing pragmatic clinical trials if we don't have enough data to represent certain populations. >> Right, one of the, the exciting things about data science is all the things that it's informing. It's also, there's pros and cons. >> Absolutely, right. >> But when we talk about AI, we always talk about ethics. How is it being used in healthcare? How are you seeing it being used? Ethically and effectively in healthcare to really turn the table on some of those biases... >> Exactly. >> To your point, weren't representing some of the most vulnerable part of the community. >> Right. And I think we've been taking this holistic approach of the AI life cycle. So not just focusing on the data we capture, but the whole life cycle. So what does that mean? That means, you know where's the data coming from, who's capturing it, and in what setting, right. If we're only looking at the healthcare setting, well, we're missing another large population. It is only collected via a mobile device. There's another population we're missing. So thinking about where the data's coming from, and then thinking about who it represents and who's missing from that. The next step is really thinking about the questions we're asking. I'll give you a good example. We can ask, you know, can I use AI to predict a no-show appointment? Or can I use AI to identify barriers for this patient to access care? So really even thinking about how we can flip that question to make it more equitable, make it more diverse is really important. And then there's been a lot of work in model development and algorithm fairness, and so there's a lot of research on that. But then there's another piece that we don't really see a lot on, and that's model deployment. So what are the biases when you introduce this into the healthcare system? The clinicians, how do they understand the data we're giving them, the tools. How do they use that to make clinical decisions? And then also, what systems can actually deploy these AI algorithms because they're very resource intensive. So we think about the AI and equity along all of those aspects of the AI life cycle. And it really helps us get a more holistic view because each of these components intersects. >> They do, you're right. Tell me, I'm curious a little bit about your background. You are associate professor of medicine here at Stanford. Give the audience an overview of the path that you took to get where you are. >> Yeah, so not a straight path, which is often typical that we're hearing today. So I started getting a Master's in Epidemiology and Public Health. And from there, I was like, you know, I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. I applied to medical school, but I'm like, I'm not sure that's what I want to do. So I went and got a PhD in Computational Biology. I'm always data savvy. And so thinking about how I could use data and I was interested in healthcare. And so I got my PhD in Computational Biology. And from there, I was thinking about, well, I was really interested in the application of data science to the healthcare field. So then I got a Master's in Health Services Research. So it's the combination of all these different degrees that make me really have, I think, a diverse view. I really understand the need for multidisciplinary teams and how we need opinions and viewpoints from so many different disciplines to really create something that's equitable and fair and something that is feasible and usable. >> Thought diversity is so important. >> Oh, it is. >> In every aspect of life, whether we're talking about business life, personal life and without it, there's bias. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And so we see this, we'll have a clinician maybe come to us with a question and then we'll have, you know the health economists think about it. We'll have the other people think about it. And we kind of work it and we massage it to get to something that's meaningful and something that we can really use that's going to change care for patients or particular patients. And so it really important to have that diversity. >> Absolutely, talk to me about your team that you're working with. >> Yeah, so my team is very diverse and I'm very proud of that. We have diversity across every aspect. So we have racial-ethnic diversity. We're probably about 80% female on my team. And so interestingly, one of my members was like, wow, I didn't realize I'm such a minority on your team. It was a male. And so I'm like, and I'm very proud of that. But we also have very diverse disciplines. So we have a lot of medical students, medical faculty we have computer scientists, engineers, epidemiologists, health policy experts. And so it's very, very diverse. And what I like to do is I like to pair people up in teams. So I might put a health economist with a computer scientist and watch them go. And it's just amazing how they can learn from each other and the directions they go in. It's just, it's really incredible. >> Well, and the opportunities that that interdisciplinary relationship builds I mean, opportunities and possibilities must be endless. >> Yeah, and it also allows students to understand how to speak to different groups because we don't speak the same language, we really don't. And equity is a good example. So equity to me might have a certain meaning, but equity to the health policy expert might have a different meaning. And so even understanding how we speak to other groups is so important and being able to translate something in a simple language that other people get is really key. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah, now here we are, tomorrow was International Women's Day- >> Exciting. >> It is exciting and Women's History Month, we get a whole month to ourselves, which is fantastic. But one of the things, you know, when we look at the at the data, the workforce 50- 50 males to females, but the STEM positions are still so low, right? Below 25%. Are you seeing, obviously WIDS is a positive step in that direction to start shifting that. But what do you tell the younger set in terms of- >> Yeah, it is a challenge. It is a challenge to really, and this is the example I always give. As a woman, we've all walked into these rooms that are all male. >> Lisa: Oh, yes. >> We've all walked into these rooms where you're sitting at the table. Oh, can you take notes? And it's hard, it's really hard. But you know what, it takes courage. So again, that mentorship being able to speak up, being able to set your place at that table I think is really important. And we're doing better. We're doing better. But it really is through consistent mentorship, consistent confidence building, et cetera. >> It is. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And this, this event is fantastic for that. It's going to reach about 100,000 people annually. >> Amazing. >> Yeah. Men and women of all, of all ages, of all different career backgrounds, which is fantastic. But the International Women's Day theme tomorrow, is "Breaking the Bias." Hashtag breaking the bias. Where do you think we are on that? >> I think we have a lot of ways to go. And so there's bias in our teams, there's bias in the way we think, there's bias in our data. And there's been a lot of publicity and hype about the bias in the data. And it is so true and certainly in healthcare systems. And, you know, it's important to understand that when we're developing AI and all these machine learning or data-driven models, they learn from the data we give it. So if we're giving it a biased data sample, or an unrepresented data sample, it's going to learnt those characteristics. And so I think it's important that we think about, you know how do we do a better job at capturing data, diversity, voices from different populations? And it's not just using the same tools and technology we have today and going to another community and saying, okay, here's what I have. You know, it's not working that way. So I think we need to think outside of the box. To think how do these people want to communicate with us? How do they want to share our data? It's about trust too, because trust is a big issue with that. So I think there's a lot of opportunities there to just further develop that. Do you think there really is going to be such a thing one of these days of an a non-biased unbiased set of data? >> I don't think so. I don't think so because the more we dig, the more biases we find and while we're making great strides in race and ethnicity, diversity in our data sets, there's other biases. You know, male, female, age biases, disease biases, et cetera. So just the more we dig into this, the more we identify. But it's great because when we find these gaps in our data or gaps, we take steps to address that and to mitigate those biases. So we're, we're moving in the right direction for sure putting the spotlight on it and being transparent about it, I think is key to move forward. >> I agree that transparency is critical. >> Yes, absolutely. >> And, you know, we often say she can't be what she can't see. Right, and so from a transparency perspective in data and also in the visibility of the leaders and the mentors and the sponsors, that transparency is table stakes. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> What are some of the things that you're looking forward to as we hopefully move out of the pandemic and to the end- I can imagine with the Masters in public health you have in MPH. Yes, your prospect must be so interesting on living through it during the pandemic. >> It is, and, and it's interesting because we've gone through the pandemic and now it's turning into this endemic, right? And so how do we deal with that? And one of the things I think that is really important is we find way to still meet and collaborate face to face, share ideas. This conference is amazing where we can share ideas, we can meet new people, we can learn new perspectives and being able to continue to do that is so important. I think that during the pandemic, we really took a big hit in the transfer of learning in our labs and in our teams. And now it's funny because my team they're like let's go to lunch, let's do a happy hour. Let's, you know, they just want that social interaction. And it's more to better understand the perspectives of where they're coming from with their questions, better understanding of the skills they bring to the table. But it's just this wonderful opportunity to think about how we move forward now in our new world, right? >> Yes. We're getting there slowly, but surely. Well, Tina, thank you for joining me talking about your role, what you're doing, the importance of mentors and sponsors, and the opportunity for data science in healthcare. We appreciate your insights. >> Absolutely. Thank you for having me. It's my pleasure. >> You're welcome. >> Excellent. >> Thank you, For Tina Hernandez-Boussard, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's live coverage of Women In Data Science Worldwide Conference 2022. Stick around, my next guest will join me shortly. (gentle music)

(bright music) >> Hello, and welcome to today's session of the 2021 AWS Global Public Sector Partner Awards. I'm your host, Natalie Erlich and today we'll highlight the best cybersecurity solution. I'm very pleased to welcome our next guests. They are Tina Thorstenson executive public sector strategist at CrowdStrike and Jennifer Dvorak information security architect for the State of Arizona. Thank you so much for being with me today. >> Thanks for having us. >> Yep, thank you. >> Perfect. Well you know obviously a really wild year with COVID and it certainly pushed a lot of boundaries. Cyber security resiliency also a hot topic as ransomware really spiked up. How have you addressed this concern and really accelerated this push with COVID-19 in the backdrop? I'd love it if either one of you would just like to jump in here. >> Well, CrowdStrike was one of our initiatives for 2020 and it was significantly increased, accelerated due to COVID. So we had to roll out in a matter of weeks when we had a matter of months previously and it really provided us the visibility that we needed for folks taking their computers home. We had no way of triaging any of our incidents when the computers were at home. So rolling out CrowdStrike as quickly as possible it gave us remote access, it gave us visibility and that was huge for our organization. >> Tina, if you could weigh in on this as well, that would be terrific. >> Sure absolutely. And you know, Jen with the State of Arizona is one of our premier customers but across the board with the 2021 global threat report that we issue each year, what we saw there was a fourfold increase in the number of intrusions. So to your point about the threat activity and it's not getting better. So what CrowdStrike is on a mission to do is stop regions and protect organizations against these bad actors so that they're, that we minimize disruptions. It's really been tremendous to see and build a ecosystem from a platform approach that started with visibility on the end point that Jen was just alluding to. >> And Jennifer, I'd love to get your insight how the public sector and the private sector can work better in tandem with each other in order to protect customers and also communities against ransomware attacks and other kinds of cybersecurity threats that we've seen coming from Russia for instance. >> Certainly so our state CISO Tim Roemer, he has definitely encouraged us to make partners with our private vendors. So that's one of his strategic initiatives and we really want partners in the private sector. We want folks that are going to come alongside us and help us with our security goals. And CrowdStrike has been one of those vendors. We don't want to just spend money and then the vendor runaway, we want somebody that's going to be with us every step of the way. We've had some incidents this past year and CrowdStrike was the first team to alert us because it was a different agency or a different part of our organization that we don't typically work with a lot. And that was really helpful because we were able to act quickly and address the issues that arose. So just having somebody that's looking out for your best interests and being a true partner is what we're really looking for. And that's the only way that we can circumvent these ransomware attacks. >> And Tina I'd love it if you'd weigh in as well. How do you see your role in this effort to protect the public evolving now in 2021? >> So I love that question and especially with the role of my role brand new in COVID interestingly enough, to create this bi-directional executive alignment with our customers and our internal teams and overall at CrowdStrike our goal, as I said is to stop breaches and it's really to bring, to minimize the frustration that comes sometimes with rolling out security tools. I've been at this a long time and tools like CrowdStrike are really game changers for security teams that are really about protecting organizations. And essentially what we do is we brought a single platform where when it, when the, when our software is deployed to an organization across their laptops, desktops, server and cloud infrastructure, we were born in the cloud kind of before it was cool and now we serve more than 11,000 customers. And that threat activity goes to a single AWS instance where we look across all of the threat activity. And then when we see activity in one area, we can protect all of our customers. That's the power of the cloud. >> Perfect and I'd love Jennifer's insights here too. What steps are you taking now to keep the public protected and the state cyber ready? >> And I like Tina's point about being born in the cloud. So State of Arizona is a cloud first state. We are also looking for solutions in the cloud, and I think by leveraging cloud solutions, we're able to be more nimble. We're able to pivot our approach to security and address anything that comes up more quickly. So being cloud first, even though it's, it wasn't embraced initially, I think that it's something that we've been driving towards and looking for more partners that support that cloud first initiative that we have. >> And Tina what's top of mind? What are some of the key initiatives that your team and teams are going to be focused on in the years ahead? What's the next phase for cybersecurity? >> Great question and we've talked quite a bit about the end point but where we're headed and really where we've invested heavily the last couple of years and we'll continue moving forward is now that we have, we've brought this game-changing visibility to our security teams on the end point of each one of the systems in their environment where we've expanded the platform to now include cloud services like I mentioned. Now include indicators of misconfigurations which are so detrimental to teams working in a hybrid cloud environment. And then we've also moved into the identity protection space. And essentially what we're doing there is the same thing we've been doing to protect workloads coming from desktops and laptops across the country and around the world and moved to a model where we're also in a zero trust principles way looking for threat activity coming in through identities, through people logging into these systems and doing the same real-time continuous monitoring and taking proactive action to protect organizations where we see malicious activity. >> Terrific, well, in light of COVID-19, we saw a big spike in ransomware and I'd love to hear specifically from Tina why do we need trusted partners rather than software vendors in this fight? >> You know, it's so important to get out in front of all of the adversaries and most recently that we've seen huge growth in the e-crime actors that are taking advantage of the tools that are unfortunately in the market today, sometimes even free that allow them to hold organizations hostage. And the reason that's so important to partner with organizations and companies like CrowdStrike, is that we've been thinking ahead and we are designed in a way to stop an individual, a breach or adversary attack from occurring but we've been watching how their adversary works and now we can see their activity very early on before they have a chance to gain a foothold in an organization's server or laptop or even a phone or a tablet. And really what we're doing is we're providing protection so that it doesn't even need to move to an analyst to do further review. We just stop it right at the gate before it causes harm. And the reason that this is so important probably is obvious, but we're about making sure that the organizations like the State of Arizona can continue on their business and without these kinds of disruptions. So we haven't designed against one particular adversary but we really designed an approach that works across them all because we've been watching so closely how they move through environments for years. And we use the power of artificial intelligence delivered from the cloud to protect against all things including ransomware. >> Right it's really an evolving process. You constantly have to be vigilant for the next threat. Now I'd love to hear how you see things change with your tech partners and providers at the moment. >> So from a CrowdStrike perspective, we aim to be absolutely the best in class for the products and services that we provide whether that's your products that you can purchase like our endpoint solutions or whether that's services like our 24/7 threat hunting teams or Falcon Complete Teams that basically serve as an extension of an organization's team. But it's absolutely critical that we move this direction and not try to be the best at everything and instead partner. So we have extensive partnerships with Zscaler and Proofpoint and so many others, Okta. I mean the list goes on and on with now hundreds. And we also have a CrowdStrike store. So once you're a customer we've reduced the friction to taking on and trying out new modules, either from us or new options that maybe you haven't considered before from our trusted partners, much like the AWS marketplace we've got the CrowdStrike store and it's a growing set of partnerships where we build those integrations. So, my prior life I was the CISO for Arizona State University most recently. And we spend an awful lot of time integrating these solutions in a CrowdStrike. We're about building those integrations so that the teams within the organizations that can get on to doing innovative things within their space, rather than having to spend all their time tying these technologies together. >> Yeah now shifting to Jennifer late last year we learned that suspected Russian hackers broke into the US government agencies including a county in Arizona. So what measures has the State of Arizona put in place now to ensure that something like that won't happen again or that at least the state is very vigilant and ready to protect citizens and the government against these threats? >> We're definitely partnering with products like or vendors like CrowdStrike. That's what we, we're looking to extend those partnerships. And not only that we're developing our information sharing program across state, local and territorial governments. So we're looking to partner with the cities, the counties. Cybersecurity is a team sport. Cybersecurity is, it takes everyone. It takes the whole state working together. And that's one of the things that we've been trying to build. So working in conjunction with the state fusion center, the Arizona Counter Terrorism Information Center, we've been working to do more indicators of compromise sharing, any intelligence that we've been gathering from these counties that maybe did have an incident or a breach. We want to make sure that the information is disseminated to everyone so that we can be stronger and protect against it. Additionally, we we're always looking for grants that we can extend so that we're able to extend our products that we use to some of the smaller cities and towns and counties so that they can leverage some of the same technologies like CrowdStrike in their environments at a fraction of the cost or paid for by a grant. >> Terrific, well, Tina how does your experience as a CrowdStrike customer now come into play in your current role? >> Well, how's it come into play? Well, I think that it makes it really easy for me to be a liaison internally and help internal teams understand what it's like to sit as a CISO or as a CIO or deputy CIO. And to understand the kinds of challenges that these teams are (indistinct) these leaders of these teams are facing as they're moving forward with their innovation agenda while making sure to make sure that they're gaining those operational efficiencies that are so important today and wowing their customers all the while, right? So I think really what I bring to it is that level of experience to make sure that the voices of our customers are heard internally and that we continue to build products and services that make sense for the needs of our customers additional capabilities. Like we just released Falcon X Recon is an example of one of our newer capabilities where we're basically looking at their deep and dark web activity and bringing that together in the single platform, single event console that we've leveraged for years now. And in highlighting that activity many, in many cases, pre breach. So before you'd ever see it hit your, in your organization's operational environment, we would detect it through that service. So, I think it's those, all those things combined. >> Terrific well, CrowdStrike won a number of key accolades this year, and I was curious, Tina what you attribute to this huge success. >> Well, I have to tell you that I've been in the security space for far too long. And what I can say is that until CrowdStrike came along, there wasn't a solution, a security solution that we could get software running on an end point that wasn't just frustrating across the board. There were conflicts with other software running or the software would work great for one platform but it wouldn't work for the other. So we really have this new approach. And I think that that's what's made us, in fact I'm sure it's certainly what made me a wildly happy customer is that staff, faculty, employees, if we hadn't told them the software was being rolled out, they wouldn't have even noticed. You know it doesn't impact the machines and it's really provided this amazing experience and bringing all that with 150 different adversary groups that we track and we take that on for the customers and just bring visibility for the immediate things they need to take action on. I think those are all of the things that got us to this point in building out this platform is going to be really amazing to see in the years to come as we expand across other areas within the security space, either developing our own or really driving partnerships to make it easier for our customers. >> Yeah, terrific. Well, I pulled up the stat here for us to examine because I think it's really important for our viewers to understand just how important cybersecurity is and how it's going to be even more important for customers and for the private citizens and public citizens. According to Cybersecurity Ventures, cyber crime costs will grow by 15% per year reaching 10.5 trillion by 2025. That's just in about four years. And not only that, cyber crime will become the third largest economy in the world after the United States and China. So, I mean, it's really terrific that you're stepping up. You know just if you could both, perhaps Jennifer can go first and then Tina, what are the key lessons that you have for even the federal government to take a more proactive stance against these threats? >> Well, I think it's clear that this is a very lucrative venture, business venture. It's treated like a business venture by these criminal actors and they have a formula and it works. So I don't see that it's going to be changing anytime soon. And it's also not something that is highly sophisticated, highly technical. It's very easy. It's very much phishing, you know, users clicking on emails and vulnerabilities and environments. It's really a very easy formula that they continue to repeat. So I think until the federal government has more ways to recoup some of these ransomware payments, or we're able to stop some of these ransomware as a service products from being used, I think it's going to continue. So we're defenders so we need to make sure that we're ready for anything that comes and using products that keep us safe is really the best way and training our users. >> Terrific and Tina? >> Thank you. So we are so passionate about making sure that our customers can sleep better at night. When it comes down to tips it really comes back to the basics in many regards but the basics are sometimes really hard to do. So they sound simple, but they aren't so easy to do. And it's basics like making sure your systems are patched. Every organization has just a growing number of devices and pieces of software and infrastructure and all of those things need to be patched nearly immediately to stay out in front of today's adversaries. And Jen's right, Some are sophisticated, some are not but the reality is if we leave those windows open, we will have adversaries, oh, you know walk into our house if you will. So the basics like that also making sure that you have great backups, right? So if you do run into an instance of a ransomware where your systems are locked that you have the ability to recover quickly, being proactive and making sure that you have the partnership arrangement ahead of time is a third really important thing to do. Many organizations now have IRR retainers that they, incident response retainers that you can use proactively in years where you don't find yourself on your heels in a reactive situation but then it's there when you need it. Sometimes it's hard to find great services when there are the flood of ransomware attacks like we've seen in recent months. And then lastly, and I should have started with this 'cause it's the most important part, train your people. It's so important to make sure that security is just a culture, a part of the culture, just like you lock your car and you lock your house. Making sure that you're thinking about those things that will help keep you safe and your organization safe. >> Really excellent points. Thank you both so much for your insights. That was Tina Thorstenson executive public sector strategist at CrowdStrike, as well as Jennifer Dvorak, information security architect for the State of Arizona. Again, really appreciate your insights. This was a fantastic conversation with you. And that's all for the 2021 AWS Global Public Sector Partner Awards or in this session of that. I'm your host Natalie Erlich and see you very soon. (bright music)

>> Man: from around the globe, it's "theCUBE" with coverage of "Kubecon" and "CloudNativeCon Europe 2020", virtual. Brought to you by Red Hat, the cloud native computing foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is "theCUBE's" coverage of KubeCon CloudNativeCon Europe 2020, the virtual edition of course, it, this ecosystem has been bustling, a lot of activity in the five years that we've been covering it with "theCUBE" we've watched very much the maturation of what's going on. Remember, in the early days, it was open source projects, companies pulling all the pieces together. Now, there's a lot more things to choose from lots of projects, not just Kubernetes, but all the other pieces, and still lots of new innovations and new startups coming into the space. So happy to welcome to the program, have two first time guests from Spectro Cloud, first of all, we have the co founder and CEO Tenry Fu, and also Tina Notle who's the Vice President of product, Tina and Tenry, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having us. >> Likewise. >> All right, so Tenry, as one of the co founders, I want to understand, you know, why Spectro Cloud? Why now, you know, many outsiders, would they have said for a while, you know, Kubernetes, it's just getting baked into all of the environment. They looked at all the platforms, whether you're talking, you know, Google and AWS or VMware, they all have their platforms, they all have their managed services offering. So help us understand, what your team does and how you differentiate from what's already existing. >> Absolutely yeah, so I actually used to work at VMware, I, and then, I saw clouds taking off right and then I left VMware, to start my first startup called CliQr Technologies, which focus on multicloud management. But at that time, really, multicloud management through a single pane of glass is obviously right, and then clicker later acquired by Cisco. So at Cisco, I kind of witness The Container and Kubernetes taking off, right? And it makes a lot of sense, right for the first time both the application workloads and infrastructure became truly portable across multiple environments, but also very interestingly at Cisco I observed there are many developer teams, right? That is adopting Kubernetes and everyone is doing a little bit different things, that because different teams, they have a different stack constructor requirements, like some for AI/ML, some, they need a different base OS, some they just don't want to have a different version, and a lot of existing solutions doesn't really provide this kind of flexibility to satisfy all the different needs, right? one size fit all, typically is a one size fit for nothing. So we asked ourselves, why can't we try to create a platform that will give people the flexibility, but not turning it into a DIY project, right, still have a full manageability, so that user don't need to worry about the upgrade, Day Two operations, governance so and so forth. >> Yeah to Tina, I know when I've looked at your product, it's discussed as layers, which my background's in networking. So I love seeing things visually and understanding the pieces as they lay out the stack. So maybe help us understand a little bit as to, you know, that the flexibility that you give and how it's not just the Paradox of Choice, just too many options out there and you know, developers left to create their own mess that they can't then support. (laughing) >> Yeah, so you know, as Tenry mentioned, offering folks flexibility without turning into a do it yourself, you know, hot mess is what we're what we're helping People do at Spectrol Cloud, the core of our solution, the core of the differentiation within our solution is around this concept of a cluster profile, and as you mentioned, cluster profile basically allows people to define in a layered fashion, what's part of their Kubernetes infrastructure stack? So at the bottom, you're talking, what's the base operating system? What's the version of Kubernetes, that's going to be part of clusters that uses profile? What's your networking and storage interface look like? And then on top of that, you have a number of optional layers. So again, you know, back to flexibility manageability, we give people options around what those other layers look like on top. They include everything from security, logging, monitoring, etc, just anything that you want to go ahead and kind of bake into a definition, a profile of what a cluster should look like in one of your deployed environments. >> All right, well, Want to make sure I understand when you talk about Kubernetes in there, can it be, you know, say VMware with Vsphere7, now has Kubernetes support. Red Hat open shift is an option, all of the cloud players have their, you know, AKS, EKS. And they're like, can I bake that Kubernetes in or are you taking a different approach? >> We're going with upstream vanilla Kubernetes today, that allows us to go ahead and provide what's newest within the ecosystem, and let people go ahead and have a really open, really open solution that's replying. >> Okay, so when I talk to, when you look out there, a lot of companies are saying how can I manage multiple clusters? So if you look at what Google, Microsoft and VMware, they're talking about, we can manage our clusters and we can also help you with those other clusters. How does that impact Tenry, your Solution, doesn't it need to be, it's just the upstream solution that I put into that cluster profile, or can I connect to, say a managed cloud solution? >> Yeah, so I think in terms the multi class management or the consistency is really the key, right. So through this class profile concept, not only it can be used as the initial template to deploy a cluster, but it can also use as a single source for choose, to drive the cluster Lifecycle Management income upgrade. So right now, as Tina mentioned, we primarily focus on upstream, so that we want to provide the maximum flexibility in terms of our end to end Kubernetes stack. But we do also have a plan, that down the road that we go into in Brownfield existing clusters. So that enterprise, existing investment to their Kubernete infrastructure can be under managed by us. >> Well there always reaches a time when the brand new technology gets called Brownfield. I think that's the first time I've heard something like, you know, EKS or the like, you know, referred to as Brownfield. Tina, you know, when I think back to my history with integrated solutions, obviously, if I have the various pieces, it should be easier for me to stay on the latest make upgrades, roll things forward or roll things back, but you know, what, give us if you could some of the, the key values of, you know, building these cluster profiles, what that enables for your customers. >> So the key around cluster profiles, we offer this policy based management, so you describe as an administrator, what it is that those clusters need to look like, right? And we've got, we adopt a declarative desired state, you know, management approach along what Kubernetes does itself, and so what you're able to get through adopting, utilize cluster profiles, is this guarantee that from deployment and then into day two as well, what you've described in this profile, winds up maintaining itself, it remains true of the clusters that have been deployed. So what it is that you require as far as the operating system, what is required as far as some configuration options, etc. So the profile itself winds up being ground source of truth and around what it is that you've got running at all these various locations, across clouds, across different clusters, etc. >> All right. Tenry, you mentioned that having things more standardized is going to help customers, absolutely, we saw that in data centers for a long time, and standardized, how do you help customers make sure that the configuration that they build are going to work, are going to be stable, if they make changes that they're not going to get things out of sync. Is there you know, interoperability matrix or some other ways that we're trying to make sure that customers, you know, stay on the rails, if you will. >> Absolutely right, So through our system, right, all the integration points, we carry the additional metadata, right to basically give the hint about compatibility, resource constraints, right, and also the upgradability, in terms of moving from one version to another. So this way, we can kind of give you some guidance, when they initially construct a class profile, what will work together nicely and then what will not, right. And then on top of that, when upgrading from one existing cluster to a new version of a class profile definition, then we can look at the environment, right to understand, right, if there's something that potentially incompatible will popping up right, so we call that pre pilot integration, check right and also post deployment, we also allow user to run additional conformance tests. So that make sure the cluster everything is actually is still acting as as it's supposed to be. >> Another way to explain that is that you know, the cluster profile concept has a lot of flexibility attached with to it, right? That's a lot of power, it can get you into trouble if you don't have the right safety nets and safety harnesses underneath you. So we have a multi layered approach to helping make sure that people are getting benefit out of that flexibility. >> Wonderful and I'm wondering did, when you've had more customers using this, is their shared information, and if there're community guidelines that help, you know, understand when it's going to be okay, hey, 1.19's out, we're looking at 1.20. You might want to do this or hey, if you're using this piece of networking, you might want to wait a little bit before you go to the next version. >> That's definitely the idea over time, folks that are engaging with us, are very interested in the fact that, because of the fact that we're SaaS management platform, SaaS space management platform today, that it offers them the opportunity to learn from their peers, if you will, right, and their peers experiences. On top of that, we also have the ability to watch just what's been going on in other deployments in the Kubernetes ecosystem and we can make sure that all that's available, as Tenry mentioned, you know, in the form of the metadata that's on top of those packs. >> All right, how about how do you price this solution? When I look out there, I talked about Kubernetes baked into all the platforms, oftentimes, it can be baked into ELA, It's part of, you know, my just general cloud spend from that platform. So how do you do the pricing and, you know, are you plugged into any of the cloud marketplaces yet? >> Yeah, so flexibility is really part of our DNA. So even for pricing, we want to provide the maximum flexibility to our customer. So unlike some traditional solution typically is priced based on number of pause, right, a year, or even number of nodes, right. So we actually price based on number of CPU cores of all workers node under management by hour. So what we call those, core hour under management, right, and then every thousand core hours at one unit, we call kilo core hours. So kind of similar to how electricity is consumed, right, so this way, based on these core hour consumption, we allow user to either pay as you go as amongst the on demand plan, or you can do an annual commitment. >> And we are in process on the marketplaces. >> Yeah. >> All right, how about, we talked about Kubernetes, I think service mesh are part of it. What in this Kube, kubecon cloud native con ecosystem, which projects are the most tied into what you're doing anything that specter cloud is particularly contributing to that you can share? >> Yeah, so our system is built on top of Kubernetes cluster API project. So we are one of the contributor to class API, we are actively adding additional functionality to enhance class API, especially by in some other VMware environment for some custom use case, such as static IP or some special placement behaviors, and also adding additional contribute on different cloud support. >> Yeah, and as far as things that we're watching, and clearly we're, we've seen a dramatic increase in the number of people on our customer front that are interested in actual deployment, of service mesh now. So that's something that you know, we're going to be more engaged in over time. And another one that we're hoping to see, check out more talks around Kubecon is AI ML, right? A lot of interest on the part of customers around AIML use cases. >> Yeah, absolutely edge and AI and ML. Definitely very hot topics to conversation this year at the, at the Europe show, expect that to continue. Tina, I'm wondering, do you have any customer examples, maybe even anonymized that could kind of just explain the key values that your customers are seeing using your solution? >> Yeah, sure, so we've got one of our earliest customers is a Canadian financial, who came to us because, they were looking to figure out how to manage consistently at scale, and they have the problem that Tenry described earlier, around, I've got different development teams, they have different needs, and you know, how do you satisfy all those guys without going crazy, right? They've got an AIML use case, that's a special snowflake they've got two separate teams in different groups that would like to be under an IT management umbrella. That's a convergence use case that they're looking at, so kind of a typical example of somebody that we think of is, you know, a really good set of people for us to be having conversations with. We've also been working with a telecom provider that it's in a similar, similar vein actually, there's an AIML, there are multiple teams of different infrastructure, and they want to be able to consistently manage it's a story that we're seeing over and over again, thankfully. >> Yeah, we also see right from I think, at individual group or team level, right. There are a lot of, kind of a product owner or data scientists that they really want to have a kind of an easy button to quickly be able to provision Kubernetes clusters that suit for their need, right. And a lot of these groups, their primary focus is really the application, right? It's not their interest to spend a lot of time and resource on Kubernete management, in terms of deploying update, or secure an operation. So through us, they can very easily spin up a Kubernetes cluster, whether it's for AIML or for developing experiment, they can very quickly do that But with the flexibility, because a lot of existing solution, they may limit the version of Kubernetes clusters, they may limit the what kind of integration they can do. >> Yeah, Tenry you, we talked a little bit earlier about, you know, potential integration down the road. I'm curious, just there's so many companies creating innovations out there, you know, say for example, one that I hear a lot of feedback on is AWS now has far gate support for their EKS offering. Is that Something down the line you should look at or do you have some guidance as to how customers should be thinking about that, and if they want that kind of functionality, how they would get that with a solution like yours? >> Yeah, actually, we really share the same vision as AWS, right. So we believe, ultimately is the infrastructure really should be transparent to application developers, right, and it should be boundary-less. So our goal is not only manage Kubernetes, across multiple environment, but eventually we will be able to link all these cluster together, to make them acting as a single infrastructure. So developers, they can still use their familiar Kubernetes interface to deploy and manage their application, but without worrying about the how infrastructure underneath is operated or managed, right. So this in a way will eventually become kind of a phallic model, but across multiple cluster and multiple clouds. >> Alright, Tina, if maybe if you could give us the final takeaway, people attending Kubecon, cloud native con, what's the one thing that if you know they have a problem, they should be coming to Spectro cloud to hear more about? >> Yeah, sure so what Spectrol cloud aims to do is help enterprises not have to trade off between flexibility and control of their infrastructure, and manageability of use that stuff's that's the main, the main thing that we would like people to remember. >> All right, well Tenry and Tina, thank you so much for sharing with our community a little bit about Specter Cloud great talking to you and look forward to hearing more in the future. >> Thanks so much. >> Thank you too. >> All right, and stay tuned more coverage from Kubecon Cloud Native Con 2020. I'm Stu MiniMan and thank you, for watching "theCUBE." (light music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering Magento Imagine 2019. Brought to you by Adobe. >> Welcome to The Cube. Lisa Martin with Jeff Frick, live at The Wynn Las Vegas, for Magento Imagine 2019. This is a really buzzy event. All e-commerce innovation, tech talks, with about 3,500 folks, and we're excited to welcome to The Cube Tina Mulqueen, CEO of Kindred PR Marketing Agency as well as contribute with Forbes, Digital Trends, expert on e-commerce, I would say. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here. >> So we were talking about influencer marketing before we went live. And you have been doing, been working in that kind of before it was even a concept. We were just saying how much marketing has changed in the last few years alone, and how brands have had to to survive and be profitable, evolve with that. Give us a bit of a perspective, first on kind of Kindred PR, what you're doing, how you got involved in influencer marketing. >> Sure, so I was really fortunate to have some great mentors early in my marketing career that kind of ushered me along in the right direction and said hey, I think we should really pay attention to this whole Twitter thing and what's happening with these real, everyday people that are amassing a following on Twitter, and that's really where it started was on that platform. So I ended up on a team for CBS that did some of the influencer marketing for Vanity Fair and for their coverage of The Insider and Entertainment Tonight, and we would work with them to get event coverage to trend online. And as you mentioned, that was before, really, we knew what influencer marketing was. It wasn't really, it didn't have to a name, so to speak, at that time. And so I learned a lot from then, and we have kind of come full circle with influencer marketing, where it, I was at first working with these sort of micro influencers, as we would call them now. And then it was a lot of brands working with more of the celebrity influencers, like the Kim Kardashians of the world, and now it's gone back to brands are really interested in these micro influencers again because of the concept of authenticity, which is a big one right now, that marketers are paying attention to. >> Exactly what I was going to say. >> So how do they dance around the authenticity? It's such an interesting and knife edge, right? Because you want people to promote your products because they like them, and that's the original celebrity endorsement back in the early days, right? People actually did use the product that they endorsed. But now you get paid endorsements, and people can see through that. At the same time, it obviously has some results, or people would not continue to invest, and now it's come full circle, whereas you said because of the internet, I with some particular interest can reach a huge number of people around a really small interest set, because of the distribution of the internet. >> Right. So what's interesting is, influencer marketing, when we first really started talking about influencer marketing, we treated it as word-of-mouth marketing. And it had some incredible benefits over some more traditional kinds of marketing because it was word of mouth. And then because influencer marketing had a lot of investments, brands were investing heavily in influencer marketing, and we were dealing more with celebrity influencers, consumers became smarter as well during this time. And then they started looking at these celebrity endorsements and realizing that these are not real endorsements. And so I think that's where we're seeing this shift back to micro influencers, and people that are really using the products that these brands are touting. >> But how does a brand, how do they engage with the micro influencer? >> Actually, there's a really great case study that I always use as an example of this, and it's actually BECCA Cosmetics, which, BECCA's one of the, I think the number one, sales cosmetic line in Sephora. And they reached out, I think it was about a year ago, maybe a couple of years ago now. They reached out to an influencer because they realized that their website traffic was going up every time a certain influencer would go live on YouTube and was using their products. So BECCA reached out to this influencer that was organically using the products, and collaborated with the influencer to create a line of products of her own. And that really, I think they sold out within the first hour when they actually went live with the product line. So that's a great example of how to engage with an influencer that is organically using your brand, and making sure that you're also including their audience, in, like, the iteration of the product, because then the audience of the influencer is also invested. >> And what defines influencer versus a micro influencer? I imagine the sheer volume of followers, but there's got to be more to it than that, because there's this really cool example that you gave, what BECCA Cosmetics found was much more probably authenticity. So talk to us about not just the number drivers there, but some of the other, I mean, it's one thing to be able to blast something to 100,000 people. It's a whole other thing to actually be able to engage their followers and convert it to a transaction. >> Right. So I think that often when we hear brands talking about micro or macro influencers, they really are talking about the number of followers, but I think you bring up a really great point with respect to that level of engagement of that following and how to really tap into somebody that is engaging their following. So I think brands are going toward actual experts in their field, or actual experts in the product line in a bigger capacity now because they know that what they say is going to be more meaningful to their audience and more engaging to their audience, rather than based on number of followers alone. So there's a lot of different things that are going into play to create a better context for marketing. >> I'm curious how other metrics have evolved beyond just the transaction. So there's the followers, and then, you know, there's obviously transactions, as you said, there's website traffic. But as people, as brands are starting to realize that engagement, ongoing engagement, interaction with content is part of the relationship, separate from and a value to the actual transaction. How have their metrics changed? How are they reviewing these programs? I'm sure a lot of it at first was, "Well, we hope it works, we think it's working." But how has that matured over time? >> It definitely has matured, and there are some platforms out there that will try to quantify influencer marketing in different ways than we've seen in the past. It's gotten a lot more sophisticated. That said, marketers still have a real challenge ahead of them in terms of quantifying their efforts in a meaningful way, because it's still hard to put a number to brand sentiment. And that's a lot of what influencer marketing is. >> Right. And is it, from an investment point of view, I always think of people with a large bucket of money, right, they put a very small piece in their venture fund, which has a real low probability of a hit, but if it hits, it hits big. And when they're budgeting for the influencer program, is it kind of like that? You know, we've got this carve-out that we are not quite sure what the ROI is. We think it's important. We don't want to miss out. Versus, you know, what I'm spending on print or what I'm spending on TV, or what I'm spending on kind of traditional campaigns. How are marketers looking at that within their portfolio? >> It is a great questions, and I think that marketers know that they need to invest in influencer marketing, so we're seeing an influx of investment coming in through influencer marketing. That said, I've been in a lot of conversations with brands that are talking about, do we go the macro influencer route or do we go with the micro influencer route? And right now I think that brands are starting to realize that if you get a lot of voices or a number of voices that are sharing the same sentiment and that are able to feed off of each other with respect to the conversation and amplify each other because even if you have micro influencers with smaller following count, they're going to amplify each other's content, and that ends up in the long run, as we talked about, being more authentic. So that's where a lot of the conversations are going right now in terms of how to spend that influencer marketing budget and weighing the pros and cons of those different options. >> Well, marketing is and should be a science these days. There is so much data about all of us from everything we do every day that brands need to be able to evaluate that, leveraging platforms from Adobe Magento for example, going back to the BECCA Cosmetics and thinking well, if they evaluate these micro influencers and the lift and the traffic that they get, if they're actually using that data appropriately then that should be able to inform how they're actually carving up their investment dollars into which influencers, macro or micro, they know that is going to make the biggest impact on revenue. So it behooves marketing organizations to become scientific and actually use all this consumer data that we are all putting out through our phones, on social devices, constantly. >> Absolutely. I think it's a great point. And I hear often from clients too that they have, they've invested in these platforms that will sort of try to analyze the data, but they're not doing anything with that data. So a lot of e-commerce merchants and retailers, if you don't have a strategy on how you're going to implement that what you're learning from your consumers, then it ends up falling flat. >> What's the biggest surprise you hear from marketers today in terms of this influencer marketing? Are they confused, they're getting it, are there any, I mean you had one really good success story, are there any other, you know, kind of success stories you can share that this is a very different way to get your message into the marketplace? >> You know, one thing that I think people should do more of, that it kind of surprises me that we aren't seeing more of is using media as a channel for e-commerce merchants to have an affiliate strategy. So basically utilizing influencers in collaboration with a media channel to be able to have a new revenue stream. I think that that's something that we haven't seen very often. It's something that when I was working as the CMO for a public trading company called Grey Cloak Technologies, we worked with Sherell's, which is a company that we were acquiring at the time to consult with Marie Claire on how to incorporate influencers into their e-commerce strategy as a publisher. And that's something that I think that people could take more advantage of. >> Even just with affiliate codes or coupon codes and those types of things? They're just not really executing on it that well. >> Right, right. And I think that part of it is a technological component, like the technology isn't quite there to be able to implement, well, to be able to implement that on a wide scale. Like Marie Claire, Sherell's ended up creating the technology for them to be able to incorporate influencers into their e-commerce strategy. But I think that we're going to see more of that. >> Right, because for the influencer, that's one of many sources of revenue that they need to execute on if they're actually going to build, you know, a lifestyle business around being, you know, quote-unquote influencer. They need that affiliate revenue on top of their advertising revenue and all these other little pieces, selling t-shirts, etc. >> Right, right. And we're seeing some companies that are coming to the table to try to provide solutions. One company that I've been watching for a while is called COSIGN, and their platform basically allows influencers to integrate on the platform and link things through social media so that people can buy through a picture, on Facebook for example. So I think we're going to see more of those types of technologies as well. >> Let's talk kind of on the spirit of trends and some of the things that you are seeing. There was this big trend in the last few years of everybody wanting to be able to, we can get anything through Amazon, right? And we can get in a matter of hours. But looking at, and seeing some big box stores that did not do a good job of being able to blend physical, digital, virtual, all these storefronts. What though are you seeing in terms of companies, maybe enterprises, needing to sort of still have or offer a brick and mortar experience? Like we were talking to HP Inc. this morning, he was on stage, and this click and collect program that they launched in APEC where depending on their region, people need to be able to start and actually transact online, but actually fulfill in store. In terms of like, maybe, either reverse engineering online to brick and mortar or hybridizing the two, what are some of the trends that you're seeing that businesses really need to start paying attention to? >> Sure, so I think that omnichannel has been a buzzword for some time, and the way that marketers are looking at omnichannel now, or the way that retailers are looking at omnichannel now is a little bit different. At first, when we started talking about the concept of create this sort of seamless interplay between brick and mortar and online storefronts, it was about taking the brick and mortar experience and putting it online. And now I think marketers are getting better at realizing that those are two completely different channels, and your customer's in a different place in both of those channels. So you need to give them an experience that is relevant for the channel, and it can be totally different than what we're used to in traditional retail stores. But brick and mortar obviously does have a place. We're seeing Amazon come out with their own brick and mortar locations, and we're seeing different e-commerce startups have brick and mortar locations and be very successful with them too as an e-commerce first storefront. So there's definitely a place for brick and mortar. I think people will always have to shop in brick and mortar storefronts, although we obviously are going to get more sophisticated delivery options, and that's coming as well. But I think that it's really an interplay and it's understanding what the channels are and where your consumers are at in that space. >> And then the whole next generation of that, which we're hearing about here, like shopping inside of Instagram. So now as opposed to a destination or I'm going to some place to buy something, whether it's online or a store, now it's actually just part of experiencing the media, as you said, and oh by the way, while I'm here, that looks interesting, I'll take one of those as well. Whole different level of experience that the retailers now have to support. >> Right, absolutely. There are other technology platforms too that, like one of them is basically producing video content that you can scroll over, or let's say you were just watching a commercial on your television, or maybe it's not even a commercial. Maybe it's like real long form content, and if you scroll over a product in the image, you can purchase it out of that video. And so these things are coming as well. It's really an exciting time. But it's an exciting time to be creative as well, because you have to have some creativity behind these strategies in order to make an impression on the consumer. >> It's exciting and creepy at the same time. (Jeff laughing) I don't know if my wallet can handle that. But we'll see. But one of the things I was wondering, when you were talking about, for example, Amazon going, starting as this online mega store and now having brick and mortar stores, the acquisition of Whole Foods. I can't go in there and shop without being asked if I'm a Prime member. But what are some of the sort of foundational customer experience expectations that, because I would think personalization would be kind of a common foundation that whether I'm shopping online with whatever, I want whoever I'm buying from, especially if I have a history, I want them to know what I've bought before, maybe my average order value, to be able to kind of incentivize loyalty. But I probably want the same thing if I'm in a brick and mortar. Are you seeing some sort of key foundations that businesses, whether they do one, the other, or both, need to put in place that can span both? >> Absolutely. So I think it's a great point. I think personalization and the experience. Obviously we're hearing so much about experience in terms of e-commerce, but in brick and mortar stores in particular. But I think that the personalization piece is such an important one. But I also think that it's now getting to where we need to personalize more on the marketing for no matter what channel it is. So you need to bring that physical experience with the customer to your e-commerce efforts as well so that you can, for example, if you're going to email market to me, I want it to be relevant. I want to know that you have been paying attention to my shopping habits, and it's kind of a fine line with respect to data, but if you're going to be using my data, I want to make sure that it's useful to me and it saves me time. >> And it kind of goes back to a point Jeff and I have heard a number of times today, and that's validating me as a consumer that you understand that what I'm interested in that you have to offer, you understand it, it's important to both of us. Well Tina, I wish we had more time to keep talking with you, but we thank you so much for joining us on The Cube this afternoon and talking with us about some of the things that you're seeing, your experiences. And now I know the difference between an influencer, macro and micro, and why they can be so important to brands of any size. So thank you for your time. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> Our pleasure >> Thank you. >> For Jeff Frick, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching us on The Cube live from Las Vegas at Magento Imagine 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat digital music)

>> from Palo Alto, California It's the Cube covering the EM Where women Transforming technology twenty nineteen. Brought to You by V. M. Where. >> Lisa Martin on the ground with the queue at VM. Where fourth annual women transforming technology that W. Scored one of my favorite events. Excited to welcome to the Cube, the CEO and founder of Mother coders, Tina lied, Tina, it's great to have you on the program. Nice to be invited. Thankyou. So this event one of my favorites, because when you literally walk in up, I would say we're the registrations. You just feel it's very natural, authentic, a sense of community of women wanting Tio engage with each other share stories. And, of course, this morning's keynote kicked off with a bang with joy Bowling. We need talking and sharing about this massive bias and facial recognition technology, like bothers a lot of technology for good, but there's some really issues we've got eye identifying, fix. Tell me about your involvement and w T. Squid. What makes it worthy of your >> time? Well, any time I can come and hang out with like minded women who want to create change, I am all about it. And having that space to be together physically I think, is really important. Because to build authentic relationships, to build, trust, to create, you know, a space where I could tell you stories I normally don't bring up at work right requires us tohave a dedicated time and space to be together to do that. So I I'm just so honored to be a part of this conference >> today to tell me a little bit about your career journey on DH. The impetus for mother coders. >> Yeah. So I started mother coders after my second child was born, and I have started my career as a management consultant at Accenture. I went on to become a technical recruiter and then went back to grad school and God Master's degree and learning design and technology from Stanford School of Education. So I was ready, Tio, find a way to use technology to change the world. So teach, you know, people how to engage politically and civically. And then once my second daughter was born, it just became increasingly difficult to keep up with my technical skills. I had been going to the meetings. I had been going to the hackathons I have been going to these evening workshops, but after the second child came awhile, I waas a mom with a two year old infant. So the only thing left to me was online learning. And it works for some people, Not for me, not for many people. And what I was lacking Waas a community that was there to support me and just be there with me, struggling through this someone, you know, people who would understand what I was going through. And I did not find that in most cases I was trying to get these technical skills from. So I thought, Why don't we have our own lead up for moms? You know? And my grandmother had raised me, so I had envisioned. Moms were here with the laptops, Grandma's over here with the kids, and it would just be this fun community building experience. I put up a Google form, and within less than a week I had nearly one hundred women saying, I want to come to the hotel. Some were even located in the San Francisco Bay area, so I knew I had tapped into something, and to this day I still get emails tweets dms from women all over the world, saying when it's one of mother coders coming to our community. So I started another coders, Really, As away Teo, help Mom's women who have become moms, um, gained technical skills so that they can get jobs that would enable them to contribute to shaping our future. And they also make a living that would enable them to take care of their families. >> One of the things that I was looking at when I was doing some research on you is some of this stuff, So let's talk numbers for a second. Why this is so imperative and critical to betting on Mom's is smart. Ninety percent women reinvest ninety percent of their income back into their families and communities. Um, women drive eighty five percent of business and consumer purchasing, with two point one trillion dollars of spending attributable to mom's alone. So you think of the Amazons of the World or online or brick and mortar retailers. This is an important community that needs to be involved in the design of technologies and products and services because it's going to have the impact is probably not even quantifiable this point So it seems like a This is so obvious. Yet to your point, you're saying I found myself in a situation where he didn't have mother. I didn't have what I confinement is looking for, said to create it. And then suddenly there's this groundswell and that suddenly almost instantaneously of Wow, this is really there's a really in need here. Talk to me about getting women back in the workers because I mentioned, as you were saying, Oh my gosh, Suddenly I have two kids under two. We don't have the time Technology changes so quickly. How are you able to help women re enter the workforce? >> Well, you know what's really astonishing is even women who had been technical before becoming Long's have a tremendous amount of trepidation about going back in. It's like you really learned it used to be a software engineer. It shouldn't be that hard getting back in. But I think motherhood has a way of just wearing down your confidence. And because the workplace is not friendly towards mother's right, the mother penalty marks us someone who's less committed to your career and less competent when that's the furthest from the truth. Because you have all these motivations to go in there, least of which is taking care of your family, right? So what we do is a lot of it is just confidence building and giving these moms a space to be with each other and reassuring each other and knowing that they're not alone right, the technical skills will come. It's just time and effort, but the friendships are forged. The sons of community of belonging that these moms create with each other is what sustains them. And when they get hit with those rejections, because there's a gap in your resume or because you know someone spoke to you disrespectfully because you were mom, it's You have someone to go back to and talk about what happened with so that you know you're not alone. So that component is actually really, really important. Well, just don't do technical skills. We bring in women from the field to teach a specific topic So our moms get context around. Why data science? Why I suddenly hot What are the issues right? And then the community part, all those three things come together. And at the end of our nine week program, the mom's walk away with a greater sense of purpose and more clarity about their career path. But then they also leave, knowing they have a crew behind them that they can access any time because they had spent a fair amount of time and effort developing these relationships. Where are you going to be strengthened over time >> and just say strength and numbers that we can say that to imply to anything in life? But this is so true? Finding your tribe, if you will of this isn't just me. This is a This is a pandemic. And sharing those stories and helping Bill confidence, I think is so critical you lead a workshop here and a beauty square today. Talk to me about some of the stories that were shared along the lines of kind of helping some woman maybe refined that confidence that used to be there. What were some of the things that came up today? >> Well, you know, the workplace hasn't really evolved and, you know, even Melinda Gates is talking about this. It was built for an era that was at that has gone right. The reality is that now more than half of families comprise of dual income earners who are leading these families, and they need income. Tio Tio lead these families into a place of economic security, right? So you talk about the workplace and what women indoor naturally, because our society isn't set up to support them. All this pain and suffering is going to come out, and in spite of the setting that we have here, we don't know each other. We're just a bunch of strangers who came to talk to each other. They were very generous in revealing their pain in revealing stories. So something that consistently came up with a lot of the participants is that there's this unspoken understanding that you don't talk about your kids, that if you're a mom and you talk about your kids, you kind of shoot yourself in the foot. In fact, sometimes it's not even tested. Its explicit someone talked about how her manager would say, Say things like, Don't talk about your kids because you steer stressing out the rest of the team because they don't understand and it doesn't matter. It's not relevant here. When that is such a huge part of your identity, everyone comes back to work on Monday morning to tell me what they did for humans. Yeah. Yeah. And if you are possibly in a position where you have to perform and hide yourself, you can just imagine how that would impact the way your creativity would come out or ideas you would share or how you show up for your costly credibly. ***, yes, yes. And we are just not enabling all this innovation and source of power that are locked up in Mom's both in and outside of the work for us, because we're not letting them back in. One say, get kicked out and coming back is so hard, Right? So ah, lot of the stories that were shared has to do with these every day, not even like earth shattering events. It's just normal, everyday interactions at like the water cooler or Monday morning chatter that already makes moms feel even more isolated than there. So what >> are some of the things that that you're going to take away from the workshop that will help influence the direction of mother coders throughout the rest of twenty nineteen into twenty twenty? >> Well, you know, one of the, uh, stats that I always keep in my head is that eighty six percent of women become mothers in the US and for the watch part, they're not doing by themselves. Right? So when we talk about most true, we're talking about the *** right. And I have this hunch that men don't want to be at work all the time, either. Right? They don't want to be this bread winning person who you know, has to do all these things to appear masculine, and so it's damaging for everyone. And if we were to create some ways to release some pressure off of caregivers in general, right? Not just mothers, fathers, people carrying for elderly, even pet owners. Everyone will feel better. Everyone would benefit. So my main takeaway leaving this conference is that the pain that the moms air feeling at work, the ones are employed are very similar to the ones that are trying to get back in right pain. The bias is it runs across or culture to be honest. And when you're trying a hat culture, it's all about storytelling. It's all about figuring out How do I make this resonate to people? How do I turn their stories into actionable steps that can be taken. And that was what their last question arises. What is the next step that you're going to take when you leave this room? And not surprisingly, everyone had inaction. Step. >> I love that Will. Tina, Thank you so much for sharing your story and excited to hear about great things that >> come, >> uh, from Mother coders. Thanks for spending some time with me on the Cube today. Thank you. My pleasure. We want to thank you for watching the cave. Lisa Martin at Women Transforming Technology, Fourth annual. Thanks >> for watching.

hey welcome back to los angeles thecube is live here at kubecon cloud native con 2021 we're so excited to be here in person lisa martin with dave nicholson and we are here with priyanka sharma the executive director of cnc at prayanka welcome to the program thank you so much for having me first of all congratulations on doing an event in person in such a safe clean way i was really impressed when i walked in this morning was asked for my vaccination record my temperature was scanned you're proving you can do these events safely this isn't rocket science so agreed and i'm so glad you appreciate all the measures we've put in place because this is how we can do it in-person interaction is essential for us as human beings for us as professionals and so we owe it to each other to just do the right thing you know have a vaccine requirement wear your masks have these what i call the traffic light uh system where if you have a green a green band it means people can come a little closer it's okay red means please at least six feet of distance and these things go a long way in making an event successful in times like this they do i love that when i saw that mine keeps falling off i'm cold so it keeps falling i'm green just so you know i know you're green what about you i'm green here you can can i have yours that's my favorite and you know you fell off again you had um the three folks that came up who were uh like uh co-chairs co-chairs yeah yeah and uh and they did almost a little almost a little skit yes that on the surface people could say well that's ridiculous and it's like no it's not it's giving everybody the guidelines so that everyone can be comfortable because when i see your green wristband i understand that you are comfortable because i don't want to accidentally reach out to give you a fist bump when you might be particularly of course yeah yeah so no visual cues make it easy yes yeah yeah very very easy very comfortable talk about the energy at the event this is the second full day tina was standing room only yesterday give us an overview of the energy and some of the things that are happening since you can't replicate those hallway networking conversations on video conference i know exactly what you mean man it is so lovely to be in person to meet people and you know for those who are comfortable there's like the fist bumps and the hugs and the big smiles and that energy i haven't seen it in almost two years um and even you know just standing on stage as i was telling you folks uh off camera i've been in this role for over a year and a close to a year and a half i've done three cube cons already but this was my first in person and being on that stage experiencing the energy of the people in that room like when i asked everyone during my keynote i was like are you all proud to be team cloud native and i got a resounding yes back from the audience that's what i'm talking about yeah you know it was amazing what's some of the news that's breaking lots of stuff going on obviously some first one in person in almost two years but talk to me about some of the the news that's breaking here at the event yes so so much new stuff to share um from our side on cncf our journey has been very much about being celebrating our culture and welcoming more and more people into it so that we can have more folks in team cloud native to take various jobs to find fulfillment and all those great things right and all of our announcements are around that theme of people finding a place here people paying it forward in this community and building the culture the first one i would like to share is the announcement of the kubernetes and cloud native associate certification so this is an exam that is going to go live end of the year so people sign up apparently the beta signups went away like this after i announced it so it was really cool wow popular by demanding yeah very very popular and it's it's an exam for folks who are brand new to cloud native and it the studying for it you'll go through you know the fun fundamentals of kubernetes what is the cncf landscape what are the key projects and ultimately you will actually deploy an application using coop cuddle commands and it's such a great primer so so how brand new can someone be when you when you say brand new are you talking about someone who already has a phd in computer science but hasn't done anything in the kubernetes space tell me how brand new can you be uh-huh that's a very good question and it is literally you can come with zero knowledge you would of course have to study for the exam and like go through that journey but the idea is that it is the gateway and so it is possible you're a phd in computer science but you've studied some esoteric part of computer science that's very unconnected to what we do sure go ahead and take it but maybe most likely you would like the more advanced certifications better but if you're let's say a marketer looking to break into the cloud native industry this is the move take this exam and suddenly all these employers you speak their language they'll be impressed that you took it and it's it's an opportunity to advance your career the oh community is huge i was looking at the website the other day 138 000 contributors yes from more than 177 countries 186 is the latest number 186 awesome 289 plus million lines of code written this community is really so productive and so prolific and it's great that you're offering more folks that don't have the background like you were saying to be able to get in and get started absolutely it's our whole thing of bring in more people because as you all probably know there's so much demand for cloud native skill sets across job functions so that's why we're here to help with yeah i you know i i want to double click on this as we say because you hear the word inclusive associated with this whole community so much um you're talking about something that is a certification yeah a marketer okay fine but we're really talking about anyone who has the drive to potentially completely transform their lives yes and in this age where things can be done remotely you don't necessarily have to live in silicon valley or cambridge massachusetts to do this or in one of the other global centers of technology anywhere yeah so that's the that's the kind of energy that's part of this that isn't a part of any large industry focused conference because you really are making opportunities for people of all backgrounds to change their lives so i don't know i don't am i extending a a virtual thank you from all of those people whose lives have been changed and will be changed in the future maybe i am but so but talk about inclusiveness in in you know from from other perspectives yes i think that you know talent drive skills none of these are exclusive to a certain zip code you know people everywhere have great qualities and deserve chances and why shouldn't they be part of a community that as you said is especially inclusive feels especially nice to be a part of and that's what i exhorted the community to do in my keynote yesterday which is that our ranks will grow and we should go out of our way to make sure our ranks grow and we do that by shining a light on our culture telling people to join in lending a hand and you know letting people's personalities shine even when they'll be different from who we are whether in terms of job function or skill set whatever and i think that's the top level um paradigm that we want to have right where we are always welcoming people when we think of inclusiveness it is you know there is certifications like kcna did do a great job there are also efforts that we must always be doing so something that we work on constantly consistently is contributor strategy where we're working on creating ladders and pathways for folks to become open source contributors it is known now that open source contributions lead to job advancement in your career right and so the whole goal is bring people in not just to hang out not just to talk but to actually grow and actually kubecon cloudnativecon is a great example of another little thing we do which is uh we uh award uh underrepresented minorities and people who are who need need-based funds scholarships to attend nice yeah and it's changed one thousand 1518 lives already and we actually uh in uh in this event have announced that we are renaming the scholarship to the dan khan scholarship fund um i i do you folks know dan yes did yeah so dan he breathed life into team cloud native right he built this organization to have the impact that it does today and all the while he was relentlessly focused on diversity equity inclusion so it was it was just like the idea came from within the team and the minute someone said it it just struck a chord with all of us yeah we're like we're doing this no question and it was one of the fastest decisions we've ever made i saw uh some results of a dei micro survey on the website where 75 percent of respondents say this community is becoming more inclusive there's obviously work to go but as a female in technology you feel that you see that as well yes i think i'm very proud of that survey that we did by the way because it's our way we're going to keep doing it it's our way to keep a pulse on the ecosystem because you can keep doing initiatives right but if people are not feeling great then who cares and so um but yes i think dei is a journey if there is no destination right always we have to be thinking harder trying harder to you know i think for example something cncf's done a great job is identifying particularly gender diverse folks who are in the community and maybe could deserve a role of high responsibility so i'm really proud that our technical oversight committee which is our really the top technical people in the ecosystem who desi decide project stuff they are led by a woman there's many women on that and it's they're all very exemplary awesome technologists and so i think um the diversity survey gives us like a hint into like the things people do like and i mean the fact remains we need to do more to source more people to come into the ecosystem we need to always be changing and evolving with the needs of the community right as i mentioned the community is 138 000 strong 6.8 million plus contributions so far you can imagine by opening that dei door just the thought diversity that comes in alone and the number of projects that will come from folks that just come in with a different mindset oh 100 we are already seeing that um we started off as folks who had you know lots of projects from the great big tech companies people who had web scale problems as i call it and that was great but in recent years the end users who are initially just consuming this technology and that too slowly are now hook line and sinker in and we have like argo cd came from intuit which is an end user uh backstage came from spotify which is an end user so this trend is growing and the diversity as you said is continuing yeah i i'm particularly interested in the dynamic where you have people who have their day job if you will where their employer is absolutely 100 encouraging them to participate in the community to develop things that will not only help the employer and that mission but also building uh solutions for everyone and providing enrichment for the for the person and and i i'm i'm going to make a little bit of a prediction i want to get your thoughts on this i think that um one of the silver linings of what we've been through in the pandemic having a lot of people at home having that relationship with your primary employer be just a little bit different and just a little bit more removed i think everyone is realizing that you know what um we all need a passion play to be a part of in addition to whatever we're doing to put bread on the table in the immediate future and so i i think that i want to hear your thoughts there's going to be an explosion in contributions from people and hopefully a lot more openness on the part of employers to let people dedicate their time to this do you do you see that do you think that yes i think i think you're really on to something here um something i mentioned in my keynote right was this conversation i've had with so many that we in this community our identity is cloud native first so we're folks who are in team cloud native before we are working at insert company name you know um google at t spotify whatever it's not a dig on the company it's actually a celebration of those companies because they are liking the developments that happen in open source they are appreciating the value these people are creating and they're employing them so absolutely there is this ongoing trend of folks seeing great value in folks who understand this cloud native projects in particular and of course right because we have been such a great place for industry collaboration lots of vendors have great products make lots of money on these projects and that's as it should be and so the value of the people contributing to these projects is very high and it will only continue to grow i imagine so so here we are in los angeles at kubecon cloud native con 21 what's what's next well uh the good news is this was the first of many to come hybrid events in person plus virtual and the next one is happening in end of may in valencia for europe 22. valencia spain and i have heard beautiful weather very nice people amazing food so just for that that alone is worth registration yes i know right it's going to be amazing i'm so excited and i hope i will see you folks there sign me up i've never been to spain i'm there me too let's do it excited let's do it for our spanish-speaking uh viewers i will say claroque he you can't you do you can do it all you can speak spanish on the queue we can have something honestly i'm impressed i'm impressed i can't i can't do that any and you donated your green card so thank you so much so nice congratulations on the event thank you uh for growing the community for and growing the diversity of it and for the the projects that are going on now and we're sure many more to come we look forward to seeing you in valencia in may thank you so much see you in valencia all right we'll see you there for dave nicholson i'm lisa martin we are live in los angeles the cube is covering kubecon and cloudnativecon at 21. stick around we'll be back after a short break with our next guest

>>From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas, it's the cube covering UI path forward for brought to you by UI path. >>Welcome back to the queue. We are live at the Bellagio in Las Vegas, Lisa Martin, with Dave Volante UI path forward for it is so great to be sitting in an anchor desk next to Dave and with guests in person, we're going to be talking about automation workforce of the future. I've got two guests here with Dave and me. Kevin crone is here intelligent automation and digital upskilling leader from PWC. Kevin. Welcome. Thank you. Can't wait to talk about upskilling and Bettina Koblick is here the chief people officer at UiPath. Welcome to the program. Thanks for having me. So, as I understand that PWC has embedded UI path into a couple of product offerings. One of them we're going to talk about today, Kevin that's pro pro edge. Talk to me about that. What is that? >>So, um, as we look at, uh, challenges that C-suite leaders are facing, I think one of the biggest emerging challenges right now is around the topic of upscaling. There's the number of jobs that are being displaced, um, is growing by automation. But on the flip side, the number of jobs that are emerging is actually greater and there is a consistent challenge that gets cited there. All of our research through our CEO survey, their work we've done with the world economic forum and other sources around the need to fill that gap. And most leaders feel like they're not doing a good job to, to fill that. So, um, we at PWC have invested in developing a, a new software product called pro edge, which is really focused on, um, identifying the skills needed for the future, teaching those skills and helping to scale the usage of the skills and the organization. And one of the key skills as we look at the digital space is UI path. And we really think that, you know, teaching non technologists around the use of tools like robotic process automation is going to be one of those critical kind of must have skills in the future. >>And patina, you guys are using pro edge. Why, why, why? I mean, you're like the automation pros, what do you need? >>We need it because we have the same, um, challenges that every other company has that introduced us automation, right? People, um, people's time, their tasks that they have been doing are basically displaced. Um, and we're trying to figure out how do we up-skill re-skill how do we position people who now no longer are work working on maybe 50% of what they've done in the past for their next role? Um, so it's incredibly important for us, >>You know, you know this well, Tina and Kevin, you as well, when, when the automation trend RPA first hit, it was like, oh yeah, the trade press, come on. It's going to take away jobs, blah, blah, blah. Now we're working perpetual workdays, right? We all weekend all night, you never stopped working. You're always on. So I think people will brace automation, but as the chief people officer, first of all, how, how was it getting through the pandemic? And have you seen, I presume that UI path folks embrace automation, of course it's in your DNA, but have you seen others sort of, is that narrative done in, is COVID effected that >>I think COVID has affected it, um, for a number of reasons, because so many things shifted in how we do work. Number one, and I can talk about that a little more, but I yesterday I was in a customer advisory board meeting actually with Kevin. And the biggest conversation was not about the technology. It was around what happens when automation is introduced to a company and what happens with people, um, as to whether they want, they're willing to adopt, embrace, have an automation mindset. So that conversation isn't done at all. And it's probably one of the biggest conversations after, you know, adopting the technology, trying to introduce it as how do you drive adoption. And a lot of that is people's people's ability to understand how it will make their life easier, but then not be afraid about what's next. Uh, so I think it's absolutely still a conversation. I don't know if you feel the same. Yeah, >>Yeah. It it's been interesting. I think during the pandemic cause peoples, you know, day to day work lives have gone up ended and he start to think about, um, you know, the, the mixture between what I'll call kind of transaction oriented type work versus analytical type work. And if it just, you know, historically everyone's always said we should do less transaction work and more analytic work. But I think the pandemic was almost like forced that conversation on steroids and people's lot. You I've had to figure out that, like, I don't want to do this type of work and I'm being, I have more demands on me and I'm being asked to do other things, how can I do this more effectively? And so part of this becomes learning these skills to automate the things in front of you right now, the part of this becomes, I need to be able to, to actually have that analytical skill set in the future. And I think that is almost a precursor for what we see happening. And that was, that was the fun part of the conversation yesterday is thinking about, okay, well, what is the, you know, what is the, uh, the accounting analyst role five years from now and what someone does today versus what someone does in five years and how do you actually plan for that, >>The patina, where in your organization, like who's using it and talk to me about the adoption and their willingness to embrace it. >>Yeah. So we are, we've introduced it to our finance organization. One of the reasons we did that is because our finance organization is also a big user of automation, right? So, um, what's been really interesting is that because the technology or because pro edge kind of takes biases out of mapping, what a person can do, um, what learning paths there are for them and what their job will look like in the future, in which job do they go to or could be a potential path. I think it actually motivates people much beyond having work shifting because of automation. Because in addition, you also get to see a path, right. And everywhere you turn, just want to know what's the possibility for the future. So, um, while I'd like to say it was genius for us to envision that it's, it's a pleasant surprise and something, we should talk about more, >>I'm sensing a journey. It's always the case where I know I call it the force March to digital. We were thrown into this. And so, so much was unknown. And I know our team, I mean our producers and it's death by a thousand paper cuts in any one individual thing is not that bad, but yeah, the Moffitt, it's just, that's what kills your work day, your work week and your mental health. And so maybe it's, that's kind of the starting point is, are pigs a band-aid for, for, for, for that fundamental, but then it's wow. I can see the light bulb goes off. I can see the potential, that's where the digital upskilling comes in. I mean, maybe that's oversimplifying it, but how do you see that journey? Yeah. >>Yeah. I think there's a couple of different pieces with this cause, you know, and it goes back to the divide between the things you need to do now. And how do you think about making your life easier, but then it really goes to what you need to do in the future. And that journey to actually get there is tough because it's not just a question of, Hey, I need to pick up a textbook or pick up an online training module. And I'm just going to become an expert. It's really thinking about what are the, what's the combination of different skills. I need to learn. Some of that's going to be hands on technical skills. It's going to be platforms like UI path. It may be other complimentary platforms in the analytics space and other things. Um, some of this may also be on the kind of softer side. >>How do I learn how to work in a more agile way and have a design thinking mindset, have a product mindset, but then it's really how's that going to change my role in the future. And how do I actually, for lack of a better word, start to embed these practices in my job in a way that I'm actually learning these skills and it will stick. And how do you actually manage that co culture change? Um, for lack of better word over time. That was probably the biggest thing I picked up from yesterday was just some of this talk around change management and culture, uh, which is, you know, we, we have a lot of, for lack of better word techie. Cause if this conference would like to think about all the cool stuff that technology doing, but the big lesson learned is really, you know, you actually have to make the stick inside an organization. >>And in the last year, Kevin, I'm curious about the adoption because you know, everything we've seen so much acceleration in the last year that digital acceleration, the acceleration in automation, we've also seen tremendous, uh, people and from a cultural perspective, I'd love to, for you to shed some light on what you've seen since you've rolled this product out, how is the pandemic, has it been an enabler of that change management and that cultural change, which historically is very hard to do. >>It's very hard. And I think this, if, if I want to CFO or COO two years ago and talked about the skills gap in what was happening, the organization, I would probably get someone that would be on and say, okay, yeah, that, that, that is happening. We need to think about this, but I got 50 other things I need to worry about. You know, I think over the past year a while, things like, you know, TA TA, well, time is a big, uh, luxury or having excess time is a big luxury that most people don't have. I think there's a recognition that, um, it's a challenging work environment right now. We're trying to get more done. People are not in person. Um, people have, you know, there's issues with, with mental health and other challenges and there's, uh, almost like a renewed focus on how do we make employees lives better and better can mean different things. >>But when I think about it, it's, it's giving people a hope that they have a future career path, that their job is not going to be eliminated, that they're developing the right skills and they're being given the capacity to actually do that now. And so a lot of the discussions have really been are around that fact. And I would say probably more so than the traditional just cost saving discussion than most automation, um, threads in with RPA begin with this really, you know, became, um, we need to do this and we need to, you know, send a message to our employees that we really care about you. And this is something that is really going to be us investing in you as a perk in the future. >>What's the role of the head of human capital management in the context of automation? Is she the champion? Is she the therapist? Is she the change agent? Well, how do you see that? >>Well, clearly he should have been talking to the head of people, um, two years ago. We even, because, uh, the way I think about it, and I think a lot of people in my role think about it is, you know, a CFO really looks after the financial health of the company. Um, the focus for us is looking after the people, health of the company, right? And so I think, um, in my career, what I've learned is that change is constant. We all know this and, um, change for people is difficult. So the way I think about introducing new technology, introducing automation, introducing anything that changes or being forced to change because of something like a pandemic, um, what I really ended up thinking a lot about is how does that impact people and how do we, how do we help them through it? Um, so that's my lens. And I think that's a chief people officer lens to all of this, but makes a perfect partnership with platforms that make this easy for us. Because if you can imagine, uh, a C-suite person comes to, uh, comes to an HR department and says, tell me what we should do here. How do we develop all our people? And it's, it's an overwhelming task. What pro edge does is just beautifully delivers this on a platter, um, in a way that we could never do manually. So it's >>Talk to me a little bit Bettina about the last year and a half. And obviously as being the chief people, officer, you came in, you said about five months ago, but obviously during a very, very challenging time, I always think that the employee experience is directly related to the customer experience. I see them as inextricably linked, how have you been able to foster a good employee experience in your time here in a very strange world so that the customer experience, I mean, you guys are a fast moving company, 8,000 plus customers. So that, that customer experience is a stellar as UI path has always had to be. >>Yeah, I think for us, it came down to just some simple things. Um, one is just being flexible. Uh, there was not a one size fits all. We had to recognize that we have to meet people in a place that works for them, everybody, uh, dealt with a different reality and the same for our customers. Um, and I agree with you. I think employees that feel enabled that feel safe, that feel they have a future, um, have a much different relationship with their customers, um, then employees that are worried about their safety and security and whatnot. So we really took an approach of flexibility, safety, um, meeting people where they are jumping in when there were big crises in India and whatnot to really, really take care of our people and help them understand that we're here for >>Big impact on mental health. Did you see that, um, there was an insert in the wall street journal. I think it was last week, uh, women at work. Um, and it was a stat in there. I don't know if you're a working mom, but it said that, uh, 30, it was Qualtrics was the source. 30% of working moms said their mental health had declined since the pandemic. Interestingly only 15. I said only 15% of working dads. Um, so that was sort of interesting, uh, and notable, uh, but you know, to your point, CFO, financial health of the company, the chief people officer, the, the human capital health. Yeah. >>Um, very much so. And by the way, I'm not surprised by that stat as a woman. >>I thought it was, I thought it was low. I was talking to my wife about it the other day. She's not a working mom, but she's like my mental health, even though I'm not a working mom, I have my mental health. I'm a working dad, but, but I got it easier than she does, but, but, and I'm not surprised at the disparity. I'm surprised that the only 30% and 50%, I think it's a lot higher than that. And people may be just like, I don't know if that's actually, maybe some people like working at home and that's, I could see that both sides of that equation. Yeah. >>There's also a stigma around mental health that we've, that's been addressed in. So even during the Olympic coverage this last summer, but having your team be really focused and enabled and knowing that they took to your point, Kevin, from an upscale perspective, that they have a path where they can go, they can increase their own value to the company. >>I completely agree. And I think, uh, other studies show that what people really want is a future at work. And, and this is what I think privilege dresses. Beautiful. >>Yeah. It's interesting. Right. Cause I think when you talk about some of the mental health challenges, I think it can get down very quickly to a cab just on this crazy schedule or I'm on zoom for 14 hours a day. And I, I don't have the time to breathe in my time commuting where I may have had time to decompress. It's just been replaced with more meetings. And I think that that may be the, like the surface issue, but I actually think if you go below the surface, not being in the office, not having some of the in-person networking, not having some of that creates anxiety about the future. And you're not really sure around, okay, what does my career path look like? I may not be getting the amount of career counseling that I used to get just by impromptu conversations or, you know, just by more traditional ways. Um, but I think the reality is when we look at the way most companies are thinking about their future work models. It's not going to go back to the way the world operated two years ago, it's, we're going to be in some sort of hybrid model. And so it really becomes more important to actually dig below where maybe some of the challenges were in the passengers, not surfaced. And I think upskilling and thinking about, um, kind of role skills and roles, it just becomes a much more important conversation. >>Absolutely. Last question, Bettina for you, we're almost out of time, but you started this in the, in financial, in the finance organization. What do you see over the next couple of years in terms of being very much UI path land and expand with your customers? Where do you see it rolling out across two iPads. >>We're already talking to our sales enablement group. Um, for a couple of reasons we want them to experience it. We want them to have also, we want them to have the conversations with our customers much like what we learned yesterday, right? It's a multi-dimensional conversation. It's not just a financial ROI, it's a people journey, change management. So we'll, we're taking it to our sales enablement group. We're absolutely gonna use it in HR, uh, obviously. Um, and I, I would just think we'll use it in two years. It'll be enterprise wide >>Different is pro edge in the marketplace. And just in, particularly in terms of its business impact. >>Yeah. I take a stab. So when we think about the challenge in a topic like digital upskilling, I think in traditional approaches to learning, it would be okay, we're going to enroll someone in a learning program. You know, you're going to go through, do certain amount of self study. Maybe there's a class, the some classroom based training. And that's it. I think for us, we saw two different challenges on both sides of that. One was trying to identify who needs to learn, what, and what part of the organization, why is that important? What an executive may need to learn is going to be different from what someone who does the transaction processing, uh, for their, their full-time job needs to learn and learning kind of from basic digital acumen through kind of hands-on skills. What are the different, um, pieces? I think probably the more interesting part is the back end of that. >>And thinking about, you know, how do you actually put these skills into practice and how do you put scale? One of the buzzwords that's thrown around at this conference a lot is the concept of citizen led automation as a topic. And really how, how do you have your, does this users building bots or creating data dashboards or doing other things that is, um, that's challenging. So as we design the product, what we really wanted to think about was that end to end journey from kind of the point of identifying skills through the point of scaling a citizen led effort. It's one of the things we're really excited to be working with UI path on is one of the core technologies that we, that we view in this ecosystem is really thinking about how do you make that happen? And if the outcome is not just people are new things, but the outcome are, people are actually creating solutions that are, that are having an impact on their job on a day to day basis. We think that's a really powerful concept. >>It's really important work, what you guys are doing. Thank you both for joining David me on the program today, talking about this very interesting symbiotic relationship partners, PWC UI path customers. Really interesting, great work that you're doing. Thanks for joining us. Thank you so much for having us for Dave Volante. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube live from Las Vegas at the Bellagio UI path forward for it. We'll be right back, stick around.

>>well, thank you adam. We're back here at the Q we're live at the feta in Barcelona and we're here in cloud city which is just amazing. I'm really excited to have two guests here from a company called data on tap. Angus axe Tina's is the founder and Ceo and Alex Baumann is also a co founder and C Xo again, data on tap guys, welcome to the cube. Thanks so much for coming on Angus. Let's start with you. Tell us about data on tap is a great name. >>Yeah, thank you for we are designing and building digital attacker brands. Built entirely in public wealth. >>What does that mean? Digital attacker brand. So tell us more about that. >>I I think uh when you want to launch now a new wireless service provider, you have this challenge. We were built from current infrastructure or build something as a green field operation. We think building something a new is provides these new opportunities. So that's that's what we are. >>You guys know when you start a company with a blank sheet of paper, it's an exciting time. Why did you start the company? >>A good question. I think, I think for me, I mean, you know, I'm sure we both had our own reasons, but the biggest one for me was being held back on delivering the types of customer experiences that people were expecting. So, uh, telecom um, is notoriously slow moving, deliver great products, but take time to get there and you see all kinds of over the top products kind of leapfrogging ahead and needing lunch of telecoms in some places and kind of being held back. Uh, in that kind of older, you know, the full sheet of paper really drove us to decide what can we do with the blank sheet. How do we go green field, you know, all this new cloud technology, what types of things does not unlock for us? And that's really the impetus for >>it. So what are you actually selling? What's the service or product that you're selling? >>We started in Canadian market. The Canadian market is may be considered undeserved in, you know, when you compare to other markets. And we started with this full and final concept building out from core network all the way to consumer application, um, including e commerce, including other kind of value added services from the get go. Even before we launched before we launch our wireless service proposition, it's very hard to get into Canadian market. We're still battling out with regulator on on that front, but we're building a tax tax for Canada and for other countries to uh, in the model of the Fintech, in the model of this new business model that's becoming available with public cloud. >>So, public policy is obviously a big part of this where you have to ride on top of the existing infrastructure at least get permission to do that. And that's kind of your business model, right? >>Yeah, exactly. Um the infrastructure exists um very good networks in Canada and I believe elsewhere in the world as well, but this is the age of service innovation. Public cloud kind of brings that service innovation to the front rather than, you know, differentiating on the network technologies, which is kind of commanded commoditize thing. The new way of thinking is about service innovation, about what can you build on existing infrastructure, How can you use elements in the public cloud, the new economy, new business models to create this new new business. >>So let's talk about cloud economics. Specifically public cloud. When we say cloud, we need public cloud. Yeah, not fake cloud. So you've got, you've got cloud, you've got you've got cross cloud, you know, kind of imagining this abstraction layer cutting across clouds are extending to the edge. You talk about the cloud suppliers, they look at the the the edge as this opportunity, they see data centers is just another edge node. So talk about how do you think about public cloud economics as it relates to your business and your custom? >>Sure. So um you know, going with that blank sheet of paper and building out and kind of the entire stack exactly from start to finish everything you need from four to customer to deliver a customer experience to deliver all the tools that are necessary to sell in a completely digital model. Um The economics for us, when you look at the public cloud, allow you to do a kind of a composite application approach of using the api economy, you can just pick exactly what you need from individual pieces that exist out in the market. Um, and typically cloud based products as well. And by building in that model, you can really narrow down a per subscriber economic as a carrier that's kind of wasn't feasible before, you know, and on top of that, that kind of Capex the time to market, all those things are so small compared to what used to have as long as you're building out in that. >>So is your strategy to enable service providers and carriers to move beyond connectivity? Is that, is that even is that feasible? Or is it an ecosystem that gets built around that? On top of that? >>Our vision is that, and this is difficult. A lot of subscription based verticals. You, you need the subscriber but you need to know them on a 1 to 1 basis. You need that person, not just building account number. Uh And then once you've got that and you've got your core business around them, it is about all the other things that you can build a kind of an ecosystem around that customer. So it could be enabling um other verticals within the teletext act. It could just be about making sure that they have kind of our first approaches. You need to be digital, you need to have a digital experience, it needs to be good, needs to be premium, it can't just be a digitization, like the clipboard on the ipad, it needs to be a real rethought Greenfield experience to be competitive in >>the future. Because when you think about the brands and the pandemic, we're all watching movies and viewing on demand. The experience that we have with those services is awesome. Absolutely. The sales, the marketing and service all integrated into one. And you think about the experience that you have with traditional telcos and it's just frustration and so so you're, you're enhancing that experience. That's what it's all about, that user >>experience. Yeah. If you, if you go into our app in Canada right now and go into a marketplace stab you, you would kind of feel like netflix a bit because you know, uh, the subscription plans are just part of the range of products you can be buying from us and it truly depends on the customer segment and type and then on the particular customer, what we would bring up front for them to to consume. You know, if it's a youth customer student or perhaps a new Canadian or new immigrants to a certain place, they might need the banking product and we might have appreciate Mastercard or Visa available for them to to order together with decent is incurred. Or they might, if a university student, they might be buying certain clothing products or or other things from around for that university or or so on. Support. The customization is endless and personalization could be really truly personal and uh machine learned and and so on and so forth. >>And if I could, the most people don't describe themselves in terms of gigabytes, they have other things that they like and other things that make them who they are and being able to to understand who somebody is and deliver things outside of just like here is a plan with gigabytes were here a minute is really the next step. You know, you need to be able to put something other than one GB on a poster. >>It's interesting you say that Alex because you're right, we don't think there's consumers, we don't think in terms of gigabytes, but underneath all this is data, it's all about the data. And when I think about industries that are data intensive like telco financial services is another example. These organizations build data products and the time it takes for them to build data products is too long. The the user experience is oftentimes too cumbersome. And I think I think there's a new metric that's going to emerge in the industry is how long is a business person does it take me to go from idea to monetization as I mean a new industry Kpi you heard it here first in the queue because it's all about building data products in the in the digital world. And so when I think about what you're doing, if I understand it correctly, you're allowing the digital service providers first of all become digital and then build data products very quickly. Configure them very quickly and offer them to their consumers. >>Yeah, I like that idea um idea to monetization I think shortening that time is really important, but it goes beyond just like configuring a data product. Um It's anything that you could pull together within your own ecosystem or combinations of ecosystems or bundles of things. Um You know, as a marketer. Uh That idea comes to you and you want to test it, it's you know, it's idea to test the monetization to monetization. Um So you know, if you can rapidly test things iterate on them uh from an interface that happens in real time and you've got customers that are the data model and the construct around them is customer centric. So your marketing can be customer centric, um That's really the world we're building. >>What's the ecosystem, look how you envisioning and thinking about the ecosystem evolution? >>Well, starting point was obviously look at the retail store and look what's in the store and kind of have all of that as as a starting point, so you have that covered. But you can go you can go outside and and and see who else is selling what to add. Mobile consumer of yours. And trust me, all those ecosystem partners are eager to get in this digital kind of platform because they want they want that access to the consumer and they want a targeted access to that consumer and looking at whatever perhaps opportunities and and values exist outside of it. People pass down the phones to their kids and their senior members of the family. We try to sell their use phones. Um We we we started um monetizing or started developing systems that allow members to sell to members, something that, you know, is maybe part of a different marketplaces. But if you can get that process going and you can be a trusted party that handles these things. That's a really exciting opportunity for certain segments specifically. >>Well, that's the thing. The cloud enables, you can create these marketplaces and you can build your own ecosystems and that's sort of the next phase, last 10 years, we're going to be different than the next 10 years of cloud. And one of the big differences is the pace at which you can develop these ecosystems. I mentioned, uh, financial services, is that, uh, an industry segment? That's right for this wireless transformation. Are there other segments that you guys are looking? >>I think uh Fintech is maybe a good example of what telecom should be, uh, not necessarily mirroring, but at least looking to for inspiration because they've kind of dropped a little bit in terms of being open, opening up architecture, allowing that kind of service level innovation. Um so, you know, one thing is to create some digital transformation or digital green field operation for a network operator, um but kind of the next step is allowing other types of experimentation on top of what you've built. And kind of, Fintech is a good model for that. The cloud absolutely enables it. Um I mean, you know, up until cloud, I don't think we could have a conversation about, you know, a carrier opening up for other people to experiment and their platforms are on their systems, but the cloud really does allow for that. And I think uh you know, smaller groups of very capable minds will come up with things that we can't even dream up right now. Uh and that's the kind of stuff that you want to have happening first on your network and be enabling it and then pull it in and pull those minds into into your teams like attracting talent that can deliver the things we're talking about is also going to be important. >>We talked about in the cube data about the economy all the time and no we can talk about opening up the telcos and it scares people a lot. You know can we replicate the reliability of the network with open A PS and open no rand open systems. But are there examples of sort of open api is the ap economy in this digital service provider world? Oh >>um I think there are I think uh you know if you come from I. P. Void ecosystem there are a lot more open um uh and networks should be in a in a similar place. I think it provides opportunities in short tech. Is there security, home security iot everything can have come to play when you think about it, when when you have an app on each each of your consumers phone we have I think endless opportunities you have to be provide certain stickiness. You have to provide certain engagement. Why would people come back to you um Gamification loyalty? Um other things can come to play uh to provide this wholesome experience on why people would come back to you, not just for you know, service things >>I saw in some of your material private by design. What what is that? >>I think so it's it's a bit of a mindset in the strategy when you're when you're developing everything in your platform um as a as a telecommunications provider, you collect like an absurd amount of information about people, particularly if you are detected in the way that you know, whoever one of those people is. Um, and there's a little bit of a need to respect some of that data, respect some of the privacy that maybe around that um, and building within the cloud and constructing new data models around how that data is, is uh, stored, what things exist in a wallet, what traceability happens, inaudible bility happens on that data is really important. As you consider the future. We're already seeing lots of regulation around privacy and data and data processing. Um, so you can't like build now and think, oh whatever, we'll change it later. You a little bit forward thinking is very important for, for that type of >>Yeah. And I think starting point is important of how easy is it to get in and start of telecom telecommunications provider, you'll see during MWc and have evidence people are trying to re engineer the onboarding experiences. Um, I think that first step has to be very, very easy for users to take uh and uh, getting into ecosystem, so just email, good to go just as any other app and, and that's, and that's a starting point, and then the rest of it is sort of on demand when needed. Uh that's, you know, with the value you grow. So telecoms usually try to run the credit check before you even, you know, before you even know the name. >>Hey guys, we got to leave it there. Thanks so much, congratulations on getting off the ground adam. It's buzzing here, back to you.

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. >>Welcome back to the cubes, ongoing coverage, AWS, AWS reinvent virtual. The cube has gone virtual too, and continues to bring our digital coverage of events across the globe. It's been a big week, big couple of weeks at reinvent and a big week for machine intelligence in learning and AI and new services for customers. And with me to discuss the trends in this space is broadened Sahab, who is the vice president and general manager of machine learning services at AWS Rodan. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on the cube. >>Thank you, Dave. Thank you for having me. >>You're very welcome. Let's get right into it. I mean, I remember when SageMaker was announced it was 2017. Uh, it was really a seminal moment in the whole machine learning space, but take us through the journey over the last few years. Uh, what can you tell us? >>So, you know, what, when we came out with SageMaker customers were telling us that machine learning is hard and it was within, you know, it's only a few large organizations that could truly deploy machine learning at scale. And so we released SageMaker in 2017 and we have seen really broad adoption of SageMaker across the entire spectrum of industries. And today, most of the machine learning in the cloud, the vast majority of it happens on AWS. In fact, AWS has more than two weeks of the machine learning than any other provider. And, you know, we saw this morning that more than 90% of the TensorFlow in the cloud and more than 92% of the pipe out in the cloud happens on AWS. So what has happened in that is customers saw that it was much easier to do machine learning once they were using tools like SageMaker. >>And so many customers started applying a handful of models and they started to see that they were getting real business value. You know, machine learning was no longer a niche machine learning was no longer a fictional thing. It was something that they were getting real business value. And then they started to proliferate across that use cases. And so these customers went from deploying like tens of models to deploying hundreds and thousands of models inside. We have one customer that is deploying more than a million models. And so that is what we have seen is really making machine learning broadly accessible to our customers through the use of SageMaker. >>Yeah. So you probably very quickly went through the experimentation phase and people said, wow, you got the aha moments. And, and, and so adoption went through the roof. What kind of patterns have you seen in terms of the way in which people are using data and maybe some of the problems and challenges that has created for organizations that they've asked you to erect help them rectify? Yes. >>And in fact, in a SageMaker is today one of the fastest growing services in AWS history. And what we have seen happen is as customer scaled out the machine learning deployments, they asked us to help them solve the issues that used to come when you deploy machine learning at scale. So one of the things that happens is when you're doing machine learning, you spend a lot of time preparing the data, cleaning the data, making sure the data is done correctly, so it can train your models. And customers wanted to be able to do the data prep in the same service in which they were doing machine learning. And hence we launched Sage, make a data and learn where with a few clicks, you can connect a variety of data stores, AWS data stores, or third party data stores, and do all of your data preparation. >>Now, once you've done your data preparation, customers wanted to be able to store that data. And that's why we came out with SageMaker feature store and then customers want to be able to take this entire end to end pipeline and be able to automate the whole thing. And that is why we came up with SageMaker pipelines. And then one of the things that customers have asked us to help them address is this issue of statistical bias and explainability. And so we released SageMaker clarify that actually helps customers look at statistical bias to the entire machine learning workflow before you do, when you're doing a data processing before you train your model. And even after you have deployed your model and it gives us insights into why your model is behaving in a particular way. And then we had machine learning in the cloud and many customers have started deploying machine learning at the edge, and they want to be able to deploy these models at the edge and wanted a solution that says, Hey, can I take all of these machine learning capabilities that I have in the cloud, specifically, the model management and the MLR SKP abilities and deploy them to the edge devices. >>And that is why we launched SageMaker edge manager. And then customers said, you know, we still need our basic functionality of training and so on to be faster. And so we released a number of enhancements to SageMaker distributed training in terms of new data, parallel models and new model parallelism models that give the fastest training time on SageMaker across both the frameworks. And, you know, that is one of the key things that we have at AWS is we give customers choice. We don't force them onto a single framework. >>Okay, great. And we, I think we hit them all except, uh, I don't know if you talked about SageMaker debugger, but we will. So I want to come back to and ask you a couple of questions about these features. So it's funny. Sometimes people make fun of your names, but I like them because they said, it says what it does because, because people tell me that I spend all my time wrangling data. So you have data Wrangler, it's, you know, it's all about transformation cleaning. And, and because you don't want to spend 80% of your time wrangling data, you want to spend 80 of your time, you know, driving insights and, and monetization. So, so how, how does one engage with, with data Wrangler and how do you see the possibilities there? >>So data angler is part of SageMaker studio. SageMaker studio was the world's first, fully integrated development run for machine learning. So you come to SageMaker studio, you have a tab there, which you SageMaker data angler, and then you have a visual UI. So that visual UI with just a single click, you can connect to AWS data stores like, you know, red shift or a Tina or third party data stores like snowflake and Databricks and Mongo DB, which will be coming. And then you have a set of built-in data processes for machine learning. So you get that data and you do some interactive processing. Once you're happy with the results of your data, you can just send it off as an automated data pipeline job. And, you know, it's really today the easiest and fastest way to do machine learning and really take out that 80% that you were talking about. >>Has it been so hard to automate the Sage, the pipelines to bring CIC D uh, to, uh, data pipelines? Why has that been such a challenge? And how did you resolve that? >>You know, what has happened is when you look at machine learning, machine learning deals with both code and data, okay. Unlike software, which really has to deal with only code. And so we had the CIC D tools for software, but someone needed to extend it to operating on both data and code. And at the same time, you know, you want to provide reproducibility and lineage and trackability, and really getting that whole end to end system to work across code and data across multiple capabilities was what made it hard. And, you know, that is where we brought in SageMaker pipelines to make this easy for our customers. >>Got it. Thank you. And then let me ask you about, uh, clarify. And this is a huge issue in, in machine intelligence, uh, you know, humans by the very nature of bias that they build models, the models of bias in them. Uh, and so you bringing transplant the other problem with, with AI, and I'm not sure that you're solving this problem, but please clarify if you are no pun intended, but it's that black box AI is a black box. I don't know how the answer, how we got to the answer. It seems like you're attacking that, bringing more transparency and really trying to deal with the biases. I wonder if you could talk about how you do that and how people can expect this to affect their operations. >>I'm glad you asked this question because you know, customers have also asked us about the SageMaker clarify is really intended to address the questions that you brought up. One is it gives you the tools to provide a lot of statistical analysis on the data set that you started with. So let's say you were creating a model for loan approvals, and you want to make sure that, you know, you have equal number of male applicants and equal number of female applicants and so on. So SageMaker clarify, lets you run these kinds of analysis to make sure that your data set is balanced to start with. Now, once that happens, you have trained the model. Once you've trained the model, you want to make sure that the training process did not introduce any unintended statistical bias. So then you can use, SageMaker clarify to again, say, well, is the model behaving in the way I expected it to behave based on the training data I had. >>So let's say your training data set, you know, 50% of all the male applicants got the loans approved after training, you can use, clarify to say, does this model actually predict that 50% of the male applicants will get approved? And if it's more than less, you know, you have a problem. And then after that, we get to the problem you mentioned, which is how do we unravel the black box nature of this? And you know, we took the first steps of it last year with autopilot where we actually gave notebooks. But SageMaker clarify really makes it much better because it tells you why our model is predicting the way it's predicting. It gives you the reasons and it tells you, you know, here is why the model predicts that, you know, you had approved a loan and here's why the model said that you may or may not get a loan. So it really makes it easier, gives visibility and transparency and helps to convert insights that you get from model predictions into actionable insights because you now know why the model is predicting what it's predicting. >>That brings out the confidence level. Okay. Thank you for that. Let me, let me ask you about distributed training on SageMaker help us understand what problem you're solving. You're injecting auto parallelism. Is that about, about scale? Help us understand that. >>Yeah. So one of the things that's happening is, you know, our customers are starting to train really large models like, you know, three years back, they will train models with like 20 million parameters. You know, last year they would train models with like couple of hundred million parameters. Now customers are actually training models with billions of parameters. And when you have such large models, that training can take days and sometimes weeks. And so what we have done E are two concepts. One is we introduced a way of taking a model and training it in parallel and multiple GPU's. And that's, you know what we call a data parallel implementation. We have our own custom libraries for this, which give you the fastest performance on AWS. And then the other thing that happens is customer stakes. Some of these models that are fairly large, you know, like billions of parameters and we showed one of them today called T five and these models are so big that they cannot fit in the memory of a single GPU. And so what happens is today customers have to train such a model. They spend weeks of effort trying to paralyze that Marlon, what we introduced in SageMaker today is a mechanism that automatically takes these large models and distributes it across multiple GPU's the auto parallelization that you were talking about, making it much easier and much faster for customers to really work with these big models. >>Well, the GPU is a very expensive resource. And prior to this, you would have the GPU waiting, waiting, waiting, load me up and you don't want to do that with it. Expensive resources. Yeah. >>And you know, one of the things I mentioned before is Sage make a debugger. So one of the things that we also came out with today is the SageMaker profiler, which is only part of the debugger that lets you look at your GPU utilization at your CPU utilization at, in network utilization and so on. And so now, you know, when your training job has started at which point has the GPU utilization gone down and you can go in and fix it. So this really lets you meet, utilize your resources much better and ultimately reducing your cost of training and making it more efficient. Awesome. >>Let's talk about edge manager because I, you know, Andy Jassy, his keynote was interesting. He his, where he's talking about hybrid and his vision is basically an Amazon's vision is we want to bring AWS to the edge. We see the data center as just another edge node. And so, so this is, to me, another example of, uh, of AWS is, you know, edge strategy, talk about how that works and, and, and, and in practice, uh, how does, how does it work? Am I doing inference at the edge and then bringing back data into the cloud? Uh, am I, am I doing things locally? >>Yes. So, you know what? See each man got edge manager does, is it helps you manage, deploy and manage and manage models at the edge. The inference is happening on the edge device. Now considers his case. So Lenovo has been working with us. And what Lenovo wants to do is to take these models and do predictive maintenance on laptops. So you want to get an it shop and you have a couple of hundred thousand laptops. You would want to know when something may go down. And so the deployed is predictive maintenance models on the laptop. They're doing inference locally on the laptop, but you want to see are the models getting degraded and you want to be able to see is the quality up. So what H manager does is number one, it takes your models, optimizes them so they can run on an edge device and we get up to 25 X benefit and then once you've deployed it, it helps you monitor the quality of the models by letting you upload data samples to SageMaker so that you can see if there is drift in your models, that if there's any other degradation, >>All right. And jumpstart is where I go to. It's kind of the portal that I go to, to access all these cool tools. Is that right? Yep. >>And you know, we have a lot of getting started material, lots of false party models, lots of open source models and solutions. >>I probably we're out of time, but I could go on forever and we did thanks so much for, for bringing this knowledge to the cube audience. Really appreciate your time. >>Thank you. Thank you, Dave, for having me. >>And you're very welcome and good luck with the, the announcements. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for the cube and our coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 continues right after this short break.

>>Yeah. >>All right. Welcome back to our third session, which is all about administering analytics at Global Scale. We're gonna be discussing how you can implement security data compliance and governance across the globe at for large numbers of users to ensure thoughts. What is open for everyone across your organization? So coming right up is Cheryl Zang, who is a senior director of product management of Thought spot, and Kendrick. He threw the sports sports director of Systems Engineering. So, Cheryl and Kendrick, the floor is yours. >>Thank you, Tina, for the introduction. So let's talk about analytics scale on. Let's understand what that is. It's really three components. It's the access to not only data but its technology, and we start looking at the intersection of that is the value that you get as an organization. When you start thinking about analytics scale, a lot of times we think of analysts at scale and we look at the cloud as the A seven m for it, and that's a That's an accurate statement because people are moving towards the cloud for a variety of reasons. And if you think about what's been driving, it has been the applications like Salesforce, Forcados, Mongo, DB, among others. And it's actually part of where we're seeing our market go where 64% of the company's air planning to move their analytics to the cloud. And if you think of stock spotted specifically, we see that vast majority of our customers are already in the cloud with one of the Big Four Cloud Data warehouses, or they're evaluated. And what we found, though, is that even though companies are moving their analytics to the cloud, we have not solved. The problem of accessing the data is a matter of fact. Our customers. They're telling us that 10 to 25% of that data warehouse that they're leveraging, they've moved and I'm utilizing. And if you look at in General, Forrester says that 60 to 73% of data that you have is not being leveraged, and if we think about why you go through, you have this process of taking enterprise data, moving it into these cubes and aggregates and building these reports dashboards. And there's this bottleneck typically of that be I to and at the end of the day, the people that are getting that data on the right hand side or on Lee. Anywhere from 20 to 30% of the population when companies want to be data driven is 20 to 30% of the population. Really what you're looking for now it's something north of that. And if you think of Cloud data, warehouse is being the the process and you bring Cloud Data Warehouse and it's still within the same framework. You know? Why invest? Why invest and truly not fix the problem? And if you take that out and your leverage okay, you don't necessarily have the You could go directly against the warehouse, but you're still not solving the reports and dashboards. Why investing truly not scale? It's the three pillars. It's technology, it's data, and it's a accessibility. So if we look at analytics at scale, it truly is being able to get to that north of the 20 to 30% have that be I team become enablers, often organization. Have them be ableto work with the data in the Cloud Data warehouse and allow the cells marking finding supplies and then hr get direct access to that. Ask their own questions to be able to leverage that to be able to do that. You really have to look at your modern data architecture and figure out where you are in this maturity, and then they'll be able to build that out. So you look at this from the left to right and sources. It's ingestion transformation. It's the storage that the technology brains e. It's the data from a historical predictive perspective. And then it's the accessibility. So it's technology. It's data accessibility. And how do you build that? Well, if you look at for a thought to spot perspective, it truly is taking and driving and leveraging the cloud data warehouse architectures, interrogated, essay behind it. And then the accessibility is the search answers pen boards and embedded analytics. If you take that and extend it where you want to augment it, it's adding our partners from E T L R E L t. Perspective like al tricks talent Matile Ian Streaming data from data brings or if you wanna leverage your cloud, data warehouses of Data Lake and then leverage the Martin capability of your child data warehouse. The augmentation leveraging out through its data bricks and data robot. And that's where your data side of that pillar gets stronger, the technologies are enabling it. And then the accessibility from the output. This thought spot. Now, if you look at the hot spots, why and how do we make this technology accessible? What's the user experience we are? We allow an organization to go from 20 to 30% population, having access to data to what it means to be truly data driven by our users. That user experience is enabled by our ability to lead a person through the search process. There are search index and rankings. This is built for search for corporate data on top of the Cloud Data Warehouse. On top of the data that you need to be able to allow a person who doesn't understand analytics to get access to the data and the questions they need to answer, Arcuri Engine makes it simple for customers to take. Ask those questions and what you might think are not complex business questions. But they turn into complex queries in the back end that someone who typically needs to know that's that power user needs to know are very engine. Isolate that from an end user and allows them to ask that question and drive that query. And it's built on an architecture that allows us to change and adapt to the types of things. It's micro services architecture, that we've not only gone from a non grim system to our cloud offering, in a matter of of really true these 23 years. And it's amazing the reason why we can do that, do that and in a sense, future proof your investment. It's because of the way we've developed this. It's wild. First, it's Michael Services. It's able to drive. So what this architecture ER that we've talked about. We've seen different conversations of beyond its thought spot everywhere, which allows us to take that spot. One. Our ability to for search for search data for auto analyzed the Monitor with that govern security in the background and being able to leverage that not only internally but externally and then being able to take thought spot modeling language for that analysts and that person who just really good at creating and let them create these models that it could be deployed anywhere very, very quickly and then taking advantage off the Cloud Data warehouse or the technology that you have and really give you accessibility the technology that you need as well as the data that you need. That's what you need to be able to administer, uh, to take analytics at scale. So what I'm gonna do now is I'm gonna turn it over to Cheryl and she's gonna talk about administration in thought spot. Cheryl, >>thank you very much Can take. Today. I'm going to show you how you can administrator and manage South Spot for your organization >>covering >>streaming topics, the user management >>data management and >>also user adoption and performance monitoring. Let's jump into the demo. >>I think the Southport Application The Admin Council provides all the core functions needed for system level administration. Let's start with user management and authentication. With the user tab. You can add or delete a user, or you can modify the setting for an existing user. For example, user name, password email. Or you can add the user toe a different group with the group's tab. You can add or delete group, or you can manage the group setting. For example, Privileges associated with all the group members, for example, can administrate a soft spot can share data with all users or can manage data this can manage data privilege is very important. It grants a user the privileges to add data source added table and worksheet, manage data for different organizations or use cases without being an at me. There is also a field called Default Pin Board. You can select a set of PIN board that will be shown toe all of the users in that group on their homepage in terms off authentication. Currently, we support three different methods local active directory and samel By default. Local authentication is enabled and you can also choose to have several integration with an external identity provider. Currently, we support actor Ping Identity, Seaside Minor or a T. F. S. The third method is integration with active directory. You can configure integration with L DAP through active directory, allowing you to authenticate users against an elder up server. Once the users and groups are added to the system, we can share pin board wisdom or they can search to ask and answer their own questions. To create a searchable data, we first need to connect to our data warehouses with embraced. You can directly query the data as it exists in the data warehouse without having to move or transfer the data. In this page, you can add a connection to any off the six supported data warehouses. Today we will be focusing on the administrative aspect off the data management. So I will close the tap here and we will be using the connections that are already being set up. Under the Data Objects tab, we can see all of the tables from the connections. Sometimes there are a lot of tables, and it may be overwhelming for the administrator to manage the data as a best practice. We recommend using stickers toe organize your data sets here, we're going to select the Salesforce sticker. This will refined a list off tables coming from Salesforce only. This helps with data, lineage and the traceability because worksheets are curated data that's based on those tables. Let's take a look at this worksheet. Here we can see the joints between tables that created a schema. Once the data analyst created the table and worksheet, the data is searchable by end users. Let's go to search first, let's select the data source here. We can see all of the data that we have been granted access to see Let's choose the Salesforce sticker and we will see all of the tables and work ship that's available to us as a data source. Let's choose this worksheet as a data source. Now we're ready to search the search Insight can be saved either into a PIN board or an answer. Okay, it's important to know that the sticker actually persist with PIN board and answers. So when the user logging, they will be able to see all of the content that's available to them. Let's go to the Admin Council and check out the User Adoption Pin board. The User Adoption Pin board contains essential information about your soft spot users and their adoption off the platform. Here, you can see daily active user, weekly, active user and monthly active user. Count that in the last 30 days you can also see the total count off the pin board and answers that saved in the system. Here, you can see that unique count off users. Now. You can also find out the top 10 users in the last 30 days. The top 10 PIN board consumers and top 10 ad hoc searchers here, you can see that trending off weekly, active users, daily, active users and hourly active users over time. You can also get information about popular pin boards and user actions in the last one month. Now let's zoom in into this chart. With this chart, you can see weekly active users and how they're using soft spot. In this example, you can see 60% of the time people are doing at Hawk search. If you would like to see what people are searching, you can do a simple drill down on quarry tax. Here we can find out the most popular credit tax that's being used is number off the opportunities. At last, I would like to show you assistant performance Tracking PIN board that's available to the ad means this PIN board contains essential information about your soft spot. Instance performance You this pimple. To understand the query, Leighton see user traffic, how users are interacting with soft spot, most frequently loaded tables and so on. The last component toe scowling hundreds of users, is a great on boarding experience. A new feature we call Search Assist helps automate on boarding while ensuring new users have the foundation. They need to be successful on Day one, when new users logging for the first time, they're presented with personalized sample searches that are specific to their data set. In this example, someone in a sales organization would see questions like What were sales by product? Type in 2020. From there are guided step by step process helps introduce new users with search ensuring a successful on boarding experience. The search assist. The coach is a customized in product Walk through that uses your own data and your own business vocabulary to take your business users from unfamiliar to near fluent in minutes. Instead of showing the entire end user experience today, I will focus on the set up and administration side off the search assist. Search Assist is easy to set up at worksheet level with flexible options for multiple guided lessons. Using preview template, we help you create multiple learning path based on department or based on your business. Users needs to set up a learning path. You're simply feeling the template with relevant search examples while previewing what the end user will see and then increase the complexity with each additional question toe. Help your users progress >>in summary. It is easy to administrator user management, data management, management and the user adoption at scale Using soft spot Admin Council Back to you, Kendrick. >>Thank you, Cheryl. That was great. Appreciate the demo there. It's awesome. It's real life data, real life software. You know what? Enclosing here? I want to talk a little bit about what we've seen out in the marketplace and some of them when we're talking through prospects and customers, what they talk a little bit about. Well, I'm not quite area either. My data is not ready or I've got I don't have a file data warehouse. That's this process. In this thinking on, we have examples and three different examples. We have a company that actually had never I hadn't even thought about analytics at scale. We come in, we talked to them in less than a week. They're able to move their data thought spot and ask questions of the billion rose in less than a week now. We've also had customers that are early adoption. They're sticking their toes in the water around the technology, so they have a lot of data warehouse and they put some data at it, and with 11 minute within 11 minutes, we were able to search on a billion rows of their data. Now they're adding more data to combine to, to be able to work with. And then we have customers that are more mature in their process. Uh, they put large volumes of data within nine minutes. We're asking questions of their data, their business users air understanding. What's going on? A second question we get sometimes is my data is not clean. We'll talk Spot is very, very good at finding that type of data. If you take, you start moving and becomes an inner door process, and we can help with that again. Within a week, we could take data, get it into your system, start asking business questions of that and be ready to go. You know, I'm gonna turn it back to you and thank you for your time. >>Kendrick and Carol thank you for joining us today and bringing all of that amazing inside for our audience at home. Let's do a couple of stretches and then join us in a few minutes for our last session of the track. Insides for all about how Canadian Tire is delivering Korean making business outcomes would certainly not in a I. So you're there

>>Well, thank you, everyone. And welcome to winning the roadmap race. How? Toe work with tech vendors to get the features that you need. We're here today with representatives or RBC Capital Markets. We will share some of their best practices for collaborating with technology vendors. I am Ada Mancini, solution architect here at Mirant us. And we're joined by Tina Bustamante, senior production manager, RBC Capital Markets and Minnows Agarwal, head of capital markets. Compute and data fabric. Um, RBC has been using docker since about 2016 and you've been closely involved with that effort. What moved you to begin, contain arising applications. >>Okay, uh, higher that. Thank you for having us. Um, back in 2016 when we started our journey one off our major focus, Syria was measuring develops capabilities And what we, uh what we found was it was challenging. Toe adopt develops across applications with different shapes and sizes, different text tax. And as the financial industry, we do have, um, a large presence of rental applications. So making it making that work was challenging. This is where containers were appealing. Tow us. In those early days, we started looking at containers as a possible solution to create a standardization across across different applications to have a consistent format. Other than that, we also saw containers as a potential technology that could be adopted across across enterprise, not just a small subset of applications. Uh, so that that was very interesting. Interesting. Tow us. In addition to that, uh, containers came with schedulers like kubernetes or swarm, which were, uh, which we're doing a lot more than all, which would do a lot more than the traditional traditional schedulers. As an example, resource management fell over management or scaling up and down, depending on a application or business requirements. So all those things were very appealing. It looked like a solutions to a number of problems that are number of challenges that we're facing. So that's when we got started with containers. >>So what subsequently motivated you to start utilizing swarm and then kubernetes? >>Yeah, other than resource management, the follower Management Aziz, you can imagine managing followers. D are Those are never difficult, Never easy on with containers. We saw that, as the container schedule is, we saw that it's a kind of becomes a manage manage service for us. Um, other aspect We are heavily regulated industry in capital markets, especially so creating an audit trail off events. Who did what? When? Uh, that's important. And containers seem to provide all those all those aspects tow us out of the box. Um, the another thing that we saw with containers under the schedulers, we could simplify our risk management. We could control what, what application on which container gets deployed, where, how they run on when they run. So all all those aspects of schedule er they simplify are seen to simplify at that time a lot off a lot off the traditional challenges, and that that's what was very appealing to us. >>Eso what kind of changes were required in the development culture and in operations in order to enable these new this new platform in this new delivery method? >>Yeah, that that's a good question, and any change obviously requires a lot of education. And this was not just a change across our developers or operations, but it was the change across throughout the change, starting with project managers, business analyst developers, Q A, uh, Cuba and our support personal. In addition, I talked about the risk and security Management so it it is. It is a change across the organization. It's, uh it's a cultural change. So the collaboration other than education collaboration was extremely, extremely important. So across those two, we started first with internal education, using something like internal lunch and learns. We did some external workshops or some hands on workshops. So a lot of those exercises were done in collaboration across all those all those things. The next item that we focused on is how do we get our high end developers the awareness of this technology on, uh, make sure they can. They can see, uh, the use cases. Or they can identify the use cases that can benefit from this technology. So we picked high end developers, noticed application and kind of try before you buy type of scenarios. So we ran through some applications to make sure they get their hands study. They feel comfortable with it on. Then they can broadcast that message. The broader organization, the next thing we did it waas getting the management buying. So obviously any change is going to require investment on uh, making sure there's a value proposition that's clear to our management as well as our business was critical very early on in in container option face. So that that that was that was another item that we focused heavily on. And the last thing I would say is a clearly defining strategy benefits so defining a roadmap off how we will proceed, How do we go from our low risk to high risk application or low risk medium risk applications? And what other strategy benefits are these purely operational? Are these purely cause best benefit? Or it's a modernization of the underlying technical facts. So if the containers do check all those three boxes So that that was that was our fourth item on the left that, uh, that, I would say, changed, um, in a container adoption journey. >>So as as people are getting onto the container ization process and as this is starting to gain traction, what things did your developers embrace as the real tangible benefits, um, of moving the containers of container platforms? >>It's interesting. The benefits are not just for developers. And the way I will answer this question is not from development operations. But let me answer it from the operations to developers. So operationally the moment developers saw that application can be deployed with containers relatively quickly without without having them on the collar without them writing a long release notes. They started seeing that benefit right away, but I don't need to be there late in the evening. I don't need to be there on call to create the environment or deploying, uh, deploying Q A versus production versus the are to them because, like do it right one on then repeat that success factor of different environments. So that was that. That was a big eye opening, um, eye opening for them. And they started realizing that Say, Look, I can free up my time now I can focus. I can focus on my core development, and I don't need to deal with the traditional traditional operational operational issues. So that's what that what? That was quite eye opening for all of us, not just for developers. And we started seeing those, uh, that are very early on. Another thing, I would say the developers talked about waas. Hey, I can validate this application on my laptop. I don't need to be I don't need to be on, uh, on on servers. I don't need all these servers. I don't need to share my service. I don't need to depend on infrastructure teams or other teams to get their check is done. Before I kept start my work, I can validate on my on my laptop. That was that was another very powerful feature. Um, that that empowered them. The last thing I would say is that the software defined aspect, uh, aspect off, um, off technology as an example, Network or storage. Although a lot of these traditional things that something Democrats have to call someone they have to wait on, then they have to deal with tickets. Now, they can do a lot of these things themselves. They can define it themselves, and that's very empowering. So they are perspective. Our move towards left, Um, s o the more control developers have, the better the product is. The better the quality of the product. The time to market improves on just the overall experience on the business benefits. They also start to They all start toe, um improved last part. One extra point. I would like to make here the success success of this waas so interesting, uh, to the development community even our developers from business. They they came along and they have shown interest in adopting containers. Whether it's, uh, the development developers from the quartz are the data science developers. They all started realizing the value value proposition of containers. So it was It was quite eye opening, I would have to say. >>And so while this while this process is happening while you're moving to container platforms, um, you started looking for new ways to try and deliver some of the benefits of containers and distributed systems orchestration more widely across the organization. And I think you identified a couple areas where, um, the doctor Enterprise kubernetes service wasn't meeting the features that you anticipated or it hadn't planned on integrating the features that you required. Um, can you tell us about that situation? >>Certainly. Haida. Thanks for having us again. Um, from the product management perspective, I would say products are always evolving and the capabilities can We have different stages of maturity. So when we reviewed what our application teams what are businesses looking to dio? One area that stood out was definitely the state of science space. Um, are quantum data science is really wanted to expand our risk analysis models. Um, they were looking for larger scales, uh, to compute like a lot more computing power. And we tried to see, um, come up with a way to be ableto facilitate their needs. Um, one thing, and it really, really came from like an early concept was the idea of being able to leverage GPU. Um, we stood up like a small R and D team, trying to see if there was something that would be feasible for our on our end. Um, but based on different factors and considerations and, you know, technical thinking involved in this we just realized that the complexity that it would bring to our you know, our overall technical back is not something, um that we would be, um, best suitable, I would say to do it on our own. So we reached out Thio Tim Aransas and brought forth, like, the concept of being able to scale the kubernetes pods on GPS. We relied on there authorities on their engineers Thio, you know, think about being able to expand, uh, kubernetes there kubernetes offering to be able to scale and potentially support running the pods and GPS um, definitely was not something that came from one day to the next that it did involve a number of conversations. Um, but, you know, I'm happy to say I was saying the recent months it has become part of the KUBERNETES product offering. >>Yeah, I believe that that effort, um, did take ah, while took a ah lot of engineering effort. Um, and I think initially all had done some internal r and D to try to work on those features, but ultimately, you decided to go with a different strategy and rely on the vendor to produce those assed part of the vendors product. Um, can you elaborate on the things that you found in that internal R and D? >>Well, we definitely saw the potential for there was definitely potential there. But, you know, the longevity of actually maintaining that GPU, uh, scaling using communities on our own was just not 100% like, in our expertise, expertise of something that we wanted to collaborate more closely with the vendor. Um, you know, technology is always evolving, So it's just the longevity of keeping up with, like, the the up to date features or capabilities testing que involved was just not something that we thought it would be. Something that we should be taking on on our own. >>Okay, So, like spending the time and engineering effort, focusing on the data science, the quantity of analysis parts I see. Um, and then ultimately, um, working with the vendor produced a release and where these features are now available. Um, how what did that engagement look like? Um, with RBC s involvement, >>I would say the engagement started off with, you know, discussing bringing it forth, being very open, you know, having transparency. So that delivery was always a little bit was the focus. Um, but it definitely, um, started office, you know, discussing what it would be like the business case. Why we would require the feature. Definitely the representative. Those and others engaged from them. A ransom side had their own, Um, you know, thoughts and opinions. Um, it had to be being able to run the work clothes, um, on GPU would be something that they would ultimately, as I mentioned, have to support on their end. Um, so we did work with them very closely. There was a very much a willingness collaborate we held a number of meetings. We discuss how the CPU support would would actually evolved. So it wasn't something that came about within like one sprint. No, that was never like our expectation. It did take a couple weeks to be able to see, like a beta product opine on it, see a demo, review it, discuss it further. Um, as you know, sometimes there might be a relief where this capability maybe offered, but there are delays. It's just, you know, part of off of our industry in a cent. Um, we're very much risk versus the nose mentioned, you know, >>when >>you are a financial institution. So we just wanted to make sure it was a viable product, that it was definitely available off the shelf, and then we would be able to leverage it. Um, but yeah, the key point, I would say, in terms of being able to bring the feature forward with definitely constant communication with Miranda, >>that's excellent. I'm glad that were ableto help bring that feature forward. I think that it's something that a lot of people have been asking for and like you said, it enables ah, whole new class of uh, problem solving. Okay. Uh, Meno je Tina, Thank you for your time today. It's been wonderful talking to you again. Uh, that is our session on working with your vendors. I want to thank everyone who's watching this for taking the time Thio contribute to our conference. Uh, awesome. Thank you, kitty.

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Actifio Data Driven 2020, brought to you by Actifio. >> Hi everybody this is Dave Vellante, full of preview of Actifio Data Driven, and with me is Brian Reagan who is a long time cube alumni, good friend. Brian, awesome to see you thanks for coming on and help us set up Data Driven >> Dave it's always a pleasure to be here, thanks for having me. >> So this is one of our favorite events of the season, not only because it's historically been in Boston, but it's a really good intimate event, lot of customer content. Unfortunately this year, of course everything has gone virtual but tell us about that, what do you guys got planned for Data Driven this year? >> Well again we're delighted to be able to put the show on, in spite of all of the challenges of travel and face to face. As you know from years past, Data Driven has always been sort of by the customers for the customers, very much an event that is driven around understanding how customers are using data strategically, and how Actifio is helping them do that to power their businesses. This year is no different, I think what we've done is we've taken the best of the physical events, which is really facilitating fireside chats and panels of people using our technology to move the business forward with data, but also added a lot of things that frankly are impossible to do when you're strained by a physical event, which is be able to run a series of on demand technical sessions. Our technical tracks are always standing room only, so now we can offer more content, more discreet package content that can be consumed the day of the event and on for a year plus after the event. So we're excited to really sort of mix the best of both worlds virtual and the forums that have worked so well for us in the physical events. >> Well it's like I said I mean, lots of these events are sort of vendor fests, but what you do with Data Driven is you bring in the customer's voice. And I remember last year in theCUBE, we had Holly st. Clair who was with the state of Massachusetts, she was awesome. We had a guest from DraftKings, which was really, really tremendous. Of course, you see what's happening with those guys now just exploding. >> Exactly. >> But we also had a lot of fun, when of course Ash comes on, and all the Actifio folk, but we had Frank Gens on, the first and only time we've ever had him on theCUBE, he's now retired from IDC, I guess semiretired. We had Duplessie on, which was a lot of fun. So it's just a good vibe. >> Yeah, we made a conscious decision to your point not to avoid the traditional vendor fest, and bludgeoning people with PowerPoint throughout the day, and really wanted to make it spin it around, and have the customers tell their stories in their own words, and really talk about the themes that are both common, in terms of challenges, ways that they've addressed those challenges, but also dig into the real implications of when they do solve these challenges, what are the unintended consequences? It's sort of like the... In a lot of ways I think about the journey that customers went through with VMware and with the ability to spin up VMs effortlessly, was a fantastic first step, and then all of a sudden they realized they had all of these spun up Vms that were consuming resources that they didn't necessarily had thought about at the very beginning. I think that our customers as they progress through their journey with Actifio, once they realize the power of being able to access data and deliver data, no matter how big it is, in any form factor in any cloud, there's incredible power there, but there also comes with that a real need to make sure that the governance and controls and management systems are in place to properly deliver that. Particularly today when everything is distributed, everything is essentially at arms length, so that's part of the fun of these events is really being able to hear all of the ways these unique customers are, adding value, delivering value, gaining value, from the platform. >> What's it's interesting you mentioned VMs, it was like life changing when you saw your first VM get spun up and you're like, wow, this is unbelievable, and then it was so easy to spin up. and then you just save VM creep and copy creep. >> Right. >> And you're seeing some similar things now with cloud I mean example is the cloud data warehouses is so easy to spin those things up now. The CFOs are looking at the bill going Whoa, what are we doing here? >> (laughs) >> You're going to see the same thing >> Exactly. >> with containers as you begin to persist containers, you're going to have the same problem. So you guys created the category, it's always a marketing executives dreams to be able to create a category. You guys created the Copy Data Management category, and of course, you've extended that. But that was really good, it was something that you guys set forth and then all the analysts picked up on it, people now use that as a term and it kind of resonates with everybody. >> Right, right. It was bittersweet but also very satisfying to start to see other vendors come out with their own Copy Data Management offerings, and so yes the validating that in fact this is a real problem in the enterprise continues to be a real problem in the enterprise, and by using technologies that Actifio really pioneered and patented quite a bit of foundational technologies around, we're able to help customers address those copy data challenges, those spiraling costs of managing all of these duplicate, physical instances of data. And to your point, to some degree when you're on-prem in a data center and you've already bought your storage array. Okay, I'm consuming 20% more of the Ray or 100% more of the array than I really need to be, but I've already paid for the array. When it comes to cloud, those bills are adding up hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, and those are real costs, and so in many ways cloud is actually highlighting the power and frankly the problem of copy data, far more than the on-prem phenomenon ever did. >> Yeah I was on the phone with a former CIO, COO now of a healthcare organization, and he was saying to me there's a dark side of CapEx to OPEX, which is now that he's a COO he's like really concerned about the income statement and the variability of those costs, and so to your point I mean it's a big issue, the convenience seems to be outweighing some of that concern but nonetheless lack of predictability is a real concern there. >> Absolutely, absolutely. And I think we see that... You mentioned data lakes, and whether you call it a data lake or you just call it a massive data instance, one of the speakers of Data Driven this year is a customer of our Century Data Systems down in Florida. And they have 120 terabyte database that actually they're using, and this is an incredible story that we're excited to have them share with the world during Data Driven. They're using it to help the federal government get better data faster on COVID treatments and the efficacy of those treatments, and so to even consider being able to rapidly access and manage 120 terabyte instance. It breaks the laws of physics frankly. But again with Copy Data Management, we have the ability to help them really extend and really enhance their business and ultimately enhance the data flows that are hopefully going to accelerate the access to a vaccine for us in North American and worldwide, quite frankly. >> That's awesome, that's awesome. Now let's talk a little bit more about Data Driven what we can expect. Of course, the last couple of years you've been the host of Data Driven. They pulled a Ricky gervais' on you >> (Laughs loudly) like get the golden gloves, he's no longer being invited to host, but I think probably for different reasons, but what are some the major themes that we can expect this year? >> Yeah, we were disappointed that we couldn't get Tina Fey and Amy Poehler. >> (laughs quietly) I think we decided that in a virtual construct, the host duties were pretty amenable. So among the many things I talked about Sentry Data Systems and we have many customers who are going to be joining us and telling their stories. And again from accelerating data analytics to accelerating DevOps initiatives, to accelerating a move to the cloud, we're going to hear all of those different use cases described. One of the things that is different this year and we're really excited. Gene Kim sort of the author and noted DevOps guru, author of The Phoenix Project and The Unicorn Project, he's going to be joining us. We had previously intended to do a road show with Gene this year and obviously those plans got changed a bit. So really excited to have him join us, talk about his point of view around DevOps. Certainly it's a hugely important use case for us, really important for many of our customers, and actually registrant's between now and the event, which is September 15th and 16th, we'll get an eCopy an e-book copy of his Unicorn Project book. So we're eager to have people register and if they haven't already read him then I think they're going to be really pleasantly surprised to see how accessible his materials are, and yet how meaningful and how powerful they can be in terms of articulating the journeys that many of these businesses are going through. >> Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I'm stucked I have not read that material, but I've heard a lot about it, and when I signed up I saw that, said great I'm going to get the free book. So I'm going to check that out, >> Yeah It's obviously a very, very hot topic. Well Brian, I really appreciate you coming on, and setting up the event. What are the details? So where do I go to sign up? When is the event? What's the format? Give us the lowdown. >> It is September 15th and 16th, actifio.com will guide you through the registration process. You'll be able to create the event based on the content that you're eager to participate in. And again not only on the 15th and 16th, but then into the future, you'll be able to go back and re access or access content that you didn't have the time to do during the event window. So we're really excited to be able to offer that as an important part of the event. >> Fantastic and of course theCUBE will be there doing its normal wall to wall coverage. Of course, this time virtual, and you'll see us on social media with all the clips and all the work on Silicon Angle. So Brian great to see you and we will see you online in September. >> Thanks, Dave. >> All right, and thank you. Go to actifio.com, sign up register for Data Driven, this is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Magento Imagine 2019, brought to you Adobe. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, Lisa Martin with Jeff Frick. We have been covering Imagine 2019 in Vegas, all day today, talking all things eCommerce, innovation, technology, the customer experience. Jeff, one of the biggest themes, I think, that we've heard today, from all of our guests, is how strong this community is, how naturally it was developed in the last ten years, and how influential it is to delivering exceptional customer experience technology. >> In fact, Jason said without the community, there would be no Magento. So it's, it's ingrained in the culture. It's ingrained in the DNA. I think, you know, doing some of the research, you know, there was people talking about the dark days of Magento, as it went into eBay, and apparently whatever that plan was, that didn't work. And then out of eBay into private equity. Out of private equity into, now, Adobe. And it sounds like the community's kind of been following along, and maybe they were holding their breath a little bit, a year ago, but it sounds like they kind of got through that, that kind of concern knothole, if you will, and kind of popped out the other side, and realized there's a whole lot of opportunity that comes to Magento, via being part of Adobe now that they didn't have before. So I think, it sounds like they're good with it, and they're ready to go, and nothing but opportunity ahead. >> Yeah, you know, I think with any acquisition, and, you know, we cover so many technology shows, and we've been part of acquisitions before at different companies. They're challenging. There's always, I think, natural trepidation. I think it's just a natural response that anybody, probably, from an executive to an individual contributor level, is going to have. But one of the things that came up so resolutely, was how organic the Magento community has been developed over time. That, like you said, as Jason was saying, without it, there is no Magento. Not only are they influential. It's very much a symbiotic relationship, that pleasantly, surprisingly, sounds like it's been integrated very nicely, into Adobe. And to your point, they now are seeing, wow, there's a tremendous amount of technology and resources that we didn't have the opportunity to leverage before. Talking about the experience, the digital experience business of Adobe's, which is growing. Grew 20% year over year, 2017 to 2018. On a very strong trajectory this year. A lot of opportunity to enable merchants of any size to have this really 360 degree of the customer experience, and manage it with analytics, and advertising, and marketing, and add the commerce piece, so that they can take that marketing interaction and actually convert it to revenue. >> Right, right. I mean, look at Adobe. I mean, they brought in Magento, which we know, late last year. They also brought in Marketo at almost about the same time, $4.7 billion. So they're making huge moves. And I think it's a pretty unique situation, where, again, they come from the creative, and now, with the data, and a sophisticated platform, and you talk about the AB testing, again. It used to be just AB, now it's AB times literally millions and millions of customized experiences delivered to the client. And then now, again, I think really an interesting point of view is where then you bring the commerce to the point of engagement rather than trying to use the engagement as a way to drive people to commerce. I mean, they seem really well positioned, I think they're going to really enjoy people like Accenture, and some of the of the other big system integrators that now are going to be, you know, behind this platform. So it seems to be a fit, a marriage made in heaven. It almost makes you wonder why Adobe was so late to have an eCommerce platform, which is the thing that kind of surprises me, I think, the most. >> Yeah, well, it also gives them the opportunity to compete with Shopify and with Salesforce Commerce, and kind of harness this brand power. But you talked about something that we've talked about all day, and that's bringing the transaction and the commerce experience to me as a consumer wherever I am, whether it's in app shopping through Instagram. Rather than, you know, delivering me a personalized experience, leveraging the power of these technologies, to understand the right things about me as a consumer, to deliver me an experience that is frictionless. It's going to allow me to have a seamless experience. We talked about that with progressive web apps, and how that's going to enable next generation shopping for merchants of all sizes to enable. Don't just engage me on my mobile, if that's where I want to be. If you don't have the opportunity to convert me seamlessly to actually transact, there's a huge adjustable market or gap in converting that to revenue, which Jason Woolsey also talked about. Kind of thinking about next steps for Adobe and what they're going to be able to do to help those merchants capture in real time, leveraging the power of technology, emerging technologies like AI, in real-time to make that shoppable moment turn into dollars for the merchant. >> Right, lot of great things. I thought it was interesting having TJ Gamble on, and talked about coopetition. Right? Coopetition is such a fundamental part of Silicon Valley and the world in which we live in. And he said, you know, if you're making fat margin, as Jeff Bezos loves to say, your margin is my opportunity. You're going to compete with Amazon, but in the meantime, you got to compete with them. So to enable integration into the Amazon platform with your Magento store, the integration into Google Shopping, integration into Instagram purchases, in app purchases, I mean, these really opening up the opportunities for these smaller retailers, mid-sized retailers, to compete in a really complicated and super hyper-competitive world. But now they can, again, focus on their brand, which we hear over and over and over, focus on their experience, focus on their community, and leverage some of this special breed technology under the covers across platform, across different modes of buying. Because the other thing we hear over and over and over is you got to give people choice. You can't say no. So if they want to buy it through Amazon, let 'em buy it through Amazon. If they want to buy it through Instagram, let 'em buy it through Instagram. If they want to come to you eCommerce site, let 'em come to your eCommerce site But, you know, in opening up all those channels for the merchant to be able to execute their transactions regardless of how the customer got to them, or how, more importantly, they got to the customer. >> And, you know, the SMB front is really key that you brought up, because, in the last year, since the acquisition was announced, about a year ago, and completed, I think in September of 2018, there was not just concern from the community, that we talked about at the beginning of this segment, but also the small and the medium business. Like, well, Adobe has a really big presence in enterprise. Is that going to be cannibalized with this acquisition of Magento, who had such a strong presence with those smaller merchants? And you mentioned some of thee things with Amazon and Google that we heard yesterday and today. I think really assuaging some of those concerns that the smaller businesses had, but also, allowing these smaller merchants to sort of level the playing field, and have access to the power of a branded Amazon storefront that allows a smaller business to get some differentiation, whereas before they didn't have that. So I think we heard a lot about that today, and how, I think, those smaller brands are probably, maybe breathing a sign of relief, that this acquisition is really going to enable them, with a lot more tools, but not at the, you know, cannibalizing what they have been doing with Magento for so long. >> Right, right. And some other fun discussions. I really enjoyed the time with Tina, talking about influencer marketing. It's amazing how that continues to evolve at a really fast pace. Right? A derivation of professional endorsement, which is something we've known ever since Joe Namath put on stockings many moons ago. But to see it go from big influencers, to micro-influencers, you know. How do you sponsor people, give them money, engage as a brand, and still maintain that they legitimately like your product, use your product. I think it's a really fascinating space to, again, to be able to purchase within that Instagram application, I think, is really interesting. And then a lot of conversations about the post transaction engagement. You know, send them not one email confirmation that your items are coming, but send them two. And really to think about lifetime value of the customer, and engaging the customer via content, and, oh, by the way, there'll be some transactions in commerce as well. I think it's really forward-looking, and really enjoyed that conversation as well. >> I did too. I didn't know the difference between an influencer and a micro-influencer, and you kind of infer based on just the name alone. But also how brands have the opportunity to leverage data, to evaluate maybe we should actually make more investments in somebody with a thousand followers, for example, than somebody with a hundred thousand. Because the revenue attribution, or the website traffic lift that they're going to get from a micro-influencer could far outweigh the benefits, financially, than going with somebody, a celebrity or what not, that, as you said, back to, you know, Joe Namath, many decades ago. So that was interesting, but it's also a good use of using data to build brand reputation, build, increase customer lifetime value, but also get so much more targeted, and really understand how to operationalize the commerce portion of your business, and through whom, through which channels you're going to see the biggest bang for your buck. >> Yeah, it's really interesting times, you know, this idea that the apps follow you. I mean, my favorite example is Spotify. Super sophisticated app. Right? I can be listening to my phone. I get into my car. It follows me. I go into my office. It follows me on my computer. I go out on my bike. It follows me. It stays the same state. And so, for the commerce and the community to be able to follow you around is a really interesting idea. And again, it was Hillary Mason, actually, that first came up with the term that, you know, AI, and good recommendations done well are magic, and done poorly, are creepy. I think it's always going to be this interesting fine line. Again, I think the whole concept of, you know, using old data and how fast do you update it, and that's kind of the example. I've been looking at tents. I bought a tent. I don't want to see ads for tents anymore. Right? It's time to see an ad for a sleeping bag, or a camp stove. And these are really happening in real-time. You know, we've heard about Omnichannel. We've heard about 360 view of the customer, ad nauseam. You've been in this business for a long time. But it sounds like it's finally coming together, and it's finally where we have the data, we have the access to the data, the speed of the analytics, and just the raw horsepower in modeling that we can now start to apply this real-time, ML, to data, in-flight, to be able to serve up the not creepy but correct recommendations, at the right time to the right person. It's getting closer and closer to reality. >> It is getting closer, and as you were talking about that, one of the things that popped into my head is going from the creepy to the magic that is, you think, wow, is really leveraging this data and using the power of machine learning and AI, a great facilitator. Or is the bottom foundation order management? If you don't have the, or inventory management. If you don't have the inventory, it's great to have all these capabilities to transact in real time, but if you can't fulfill it, you're going to sink. >> Yeah. >> So Magento, with, you know, some of their core technology enabling this. Really enabling, not just enabling the 360 degree customer view, but being able to fulfill it. Those are table stakes, and game changers. >> Right. >> For merchants of any size. >> Right, and I think they do have to engage. I mean, they have to be brands. Right? Because a commodity item I can go get anywhere. There's got to be a reason to come. Lot of conversations, not so much here, but at the Adobe summit, in terms of the content piece, and having an ongoing dialog and an ongoing content relationship, with your client. Now you can slice and dice and serve that up lots of different ways based on who they are and the context. But if you don't have that, you can't just compete on price. You just can't compete on inventory, 'cause Amazon is going to win. Right? You can't stock, my favorite thing is, is shirt, shirt little pins in here. How do you stock those? You can't. They don't cost any money, and you don't sell that many. Amazon can. So, find you niche, you know. Engage your customers. Engage your community, and there'll be some transactions that come along with this. And I think it's really reinforced that, I think, its probably really timely for Magento to be part of Adobe, because eCommerce, just purely by itself, is going to be tougher and tougher to do unless you've got this deeper relationship with your customers, beyond simply transacting something. >> Exactly. So I enjoyed hosting, as I always do with you, Jeff. Learned a lot today, and excited to hear about what's next for this event, now that Adobe is leveraging the power of Magento. >> Well, we heard the announcements, Gary's going to make the announcement tomorrow. So hang out for the keynote tomorrow to find out more about Imagine 2020. We'll be there. >> 2020, yes. >> 2020, because we'll know everything in 2020. >> We will know. That's right. I can't wait. >> 2020 hindsight. >> I'm waiting for that. Well, Jeff, as I said, always a pleasure hosting with you. >> You too, Lisa. >> I brought the sea urchin necklace out. >> I like it. I like it. >> This is just for Jeff. It's making it's appearance on theCUBE. We want to thank you for watching, for Jeff Frick, I'm Lisa Martin, and you've been watching theCUBE live from Imagine 19 at The Wynn Las Vegas. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering Dell technologies world 2019 to you by Dell technologies and its ecosystem partners welcome back to the cube Lisa Martin with Dave Volante hey Dave you too day two of the cubes coverage of Dell technology world 2019 from Las Vegas and as John Ferrier said yesterday with you guys did your open this is a a cube cannon of content we've got two sets three days of coverage excited to welcome to light back to the program but a couple of new guys from Deloitte joining us we have Bob black Dell technologies Global Alliance lead and principal from Deloitte Bob it's great to have you on the program thank you're having us both of you and Louise spend vanina's VP of cloud business development at Deloitte thanks so much for joining us welcome so guys yesterday's keynote was fantastic it really started with this electric and I think that started with the fact that Michael Dell came out to Queen music which I loved but also today Jeff Clarke shot out of a cannon as well one of the things that he talked about was the Dell technologies five key imperatives for IT modernization one of them being hybrid cloud strategy for multi cloud journey we've been talking about multi cloud for a long time it's a big theme here we're gonna get into that with you guys and specifically get the rise of hybrid cloud but before we get into that Bob let's start with you kind of set the stage about your tenure at Deloitte you are an industry veteran so tell us a little bit about your expertise and kind of some of your thoughts on some of the things you've heard the last two days sure well thanks for that for having us so again my name is Bob black I'm the global lead alliance partner for the deltek for Deloitte I've been with the firm for about a little less than three years now I actually came to the firm because I really my former employee really neglected to focus a lot on infrastructure and hybrid cloud right so when I saw this as an opportunity to come to going and and really fashion what that what that should look like at the marketplace and so I think as serving in this role you know we've been able to really drive a lot of what that hybrid cloud messaging throughout the white for a lot of our customers and Louise tell us a little bit about your background well thank you I've been with the firm now for about two years actually came in via an acquisition of a company called day one solutions where we helped kind of provide a shot in the arm in our overall cloud go to market but my experience is I've worked at cloud providers like AWS I've worked with the technology OEMs as well so I've seen this seen the space change for quite some time so this is the second Dell technologies world lots of news yesterday this whole journey a lot of collaboration yesterday as well between really kind of VMware as a linchpin of driving a lot of what Dell technologies is doing we saw a Microsoft on stage everything is about collaborating listening to the customer and enabling customers to be successful in this challenging but very true multi cloud world talk about some of the announcements Bob we'll start with you some of the things that you're hearing and what that without Deloitte can help Dell technologies customers with a successful hybrid cloud strategy what are some other trends you're seeing and hearing well yeah so thank you so I mean it was something else was yesterday we're very fascinating and you know one of the things that we have been seeing in the marketplace is a lot of our clients are restarting to repatriate their applications back from public cloud fact on-premises and that's not to you know say anything bad about the public cloud but what we're seeing is a lot of our clients have thousands or if not tens of thousands of applications in a legacy portfolio that simply are not conducive for public cloud and when there was a shift out to public cloud I think that you know a lot of our clients adopted this lift and shift or Rijo sling type of methodology and most of our clients really didn't find the value in there that they thought they were going to get right they weren't able to modernize the application they weren't saving any money they had dual IT fractured operations and so for because of our reason we're starting to see a lot of that repatriation back on premises and Ilana and I think a lot of our clients see that it's somewhat of a failure but I think what we see this is an opportunity right you know public cloud is a great tool in the toolbox and when it's incorporated with as you heard here up on the stage yesterday you know the data center other other areas on premises and the edge right you can really put together a cohesive hybrid cloud strategy and that's what's really going to drive value of our clients so we've you know we've worked successfully with a number of clients on things like BMC and AWS and yesterday's announcement on VMware and Microsoft and now of course Dell cloud I think is only going to accelerate the adoption of those technologies and solutions to help our clients adopt a hybrid multi cloud strategy I'll add to that I think it's it's kind of an evolution relieve our industries if you go back to the ten years of history of the cube look at how much has changed and and software-defined OEM abstract eight the OS or application away from the hardware component that's been happening for some time and you're now starting to see you know the other side of that from the public cloud moving to on-premises as well so you know really the hybrid definition if it's seamless data and applications across environments will just continue to move to that model and there's some ironies that I want to come back to but I want to ask you Bob but you said some of your clients feel like it was a failure do you feel like it was an edict from up on high go to the cloud and they really didn't have a clear strategy to affect the operating model and that's why they ended up where they are or were there other factors I think so we kind of dubbing at some one times as a management by in-flight magazine if you will right you know this you know I remember talking about client she told me that she had to move everything all her storage out to cloud and when we asked her why this is well that's what everybody else is doing I assume I have to do the same thing right so I looked you know we're not here to disparage anything in the public cloud it is a great you know tool for a lot of our clients it's just making sure that we have that integration that seamless integration of applications and data between you know both on-premises and cloud and that really starts with a really well thought out strategy it actually starts out even before that with trying to understand your applications many of our client made the application and this is hard for me saying this as an infrastructure guy right but the application should drive the placement right and I think a lot of our clients struggle with what makes up their application portfolio right what are the attributes that that make up the application that will help determine the placement of of those applications themselves well that's why I mean I'm interested in how Deloitte looks at infrastructure because Bob you were saying your previous firm really wasn't all in on infrastructure kind of infrastructure I met but when you think about a firm like Deloitte global capabilities deep industry expertise application you know keep those infrastructures more horizontal how do you guys look at the the opportunity why does it form structure so important to you well it's really to support next generation applications right again going back to if you think of hybrid as an approach of seamless integration across environments and you start developing these new applications towards you know different operating models or service oriented models the underlying infrastructure is not really built for that so you're gonna need to go through IT modernization refresh is within a new type of technologies and maybe what you were doing before so these applications I think move away from kind of legacy environments to more modernize type environments cloud or on-premises ultimately you're gonna have to address that IT on-premise need so what is that path for a customer who like you were saying Bob who thought well we've really failed at this they they went to public cloud because everybody else was suddenly I mean we all know time is a major issue that with any every business transforming because first survival and for competitive advantage how do you help a customer take that what they perceive as a failure and a lot of times that can be a positive effort right gotta opportunity to learn align exactly give us an example it may be a favorite customer by name or industry where you said alright we let's step back we have to have a strategy you're evaluating all these applications letting them as you said both drive where they should be run how they should be deployed how they should be secured how do you kind of help that repatriation it from a speed perspective so they can get to market faster and turn that failure of a failure into a success yeah I'll give you one example I mean we working with we're working with a retail client not too long go and you know they had they bought the you know they drank the kool-aid in decided they went through everything on some public clown right but again what they found was unless you're willing to refactor an application right to take advantage of cloud-based services and more agile nature of application development what they found was and it wasn't really providing the value that they were hoping for right and so again when you're left with that lift and shift with a tree hosting strategy it just didn't really provide anything so what we wanted to do is work with them to kind of put together a business case a more well defined strategy to say hey look let's let's let's accept the fact that these applications are not conducive to the cloud and right and how do we drive value across the entire application portfolio across both on-premises and in the public cloud right and then I think the other thing that we need to talk about too is I think a lot of times and it's been brought up here several times is I think a lot of lot of clients out there they talk about public cloud and the data center but that's it right there we're going to start to see distributed computing in the edge right we're going I think a lot of clients forget that people need to get to the cloud there's going to be this edge competing right so the journey starts there but it certainly doesn't end there either yeah it kind of comes to mind another insurance client that we had a large insurance company and they're a major cloud adopter but overall it represents still a small portion of their overall IT but they need that speed to market so leveraging technologies like pivotal to be able to quickly obtain that and then but as far as their overall application strategy every net new generation app they're gonna try to they're a cloud first mandate as well and we're seeing that a lot more prevalent from I will explore this a little bit because I saw stat I had some IDC survey so the 80% of companies say that half their workloads are gonna come back on Prem by I don't know when but anyway that repatriation conversation so okay so the insurance company their claims app going into the cloud but if if I'm a CIO and you're gonna bring back workloads I want that experience to be very cloud like I want the tool chains to be similar so obviously some of the announcements here today but that's non-trivial so I presume that's where you guys come in okay you guys you guys do well with complex so how do you help customers create that cloud variants that can substantially mimic the public cloud on-premise yeah and so very much we took first take a look at the operating model right if the in the way that they've adopted cloud mostly Cline's have been kind of a workload by workload and you start having these siloed environments of operations but what they want is the premise of you know how you operate cloud we know for the way that you do the rest of your legacy applications for IT so the evolution has been is they want to take a look at this holistically across all of their enterprise portfolio but not just from a technology enablement organization change you know can you bring in the right talent can you retain the right talent you know and is this the kind of environment where you can enable them to go create you know those things that might provide a bit of bigger ROI to market as well as automate and relentlessly where you can in how you approach services so I have a thesis I want to test with you guys so and I've been saying a few times this week at multi cloud it's all the hype but I think it's been a symptom of multi vendor shadow IT line of business initiatives and now we sort of have this you know airline magazine home s and and I think executives are realizing wow we have to get control of this provide the agility of the cloud the cost structure potentially but also the corporate edicts of security and compliance is that a valid premise is that how we got here has it been more deliberate than that and you know where do you see it going yeah I mean we've seen somebody even from this M&A right well you might be all-in with one cloud provider predominantly and you're continuing to move in that direction so you can gain some maturity before you introduce a multi cloud model but what happens we can just made an acquisition of something very strategic to your company oh crap they're on there with some other completely different kind of provider and then but you still have to roll that into how your overall IT governance so again these are just areas of the conversation where it's at a completely different level than you know which console are you going to use we'll try to manage all and that's and it's it depends whether or not you've sort of migrated into the the acquirers cloud or you leave it alone yeah but but how do you make how do you help customers make that distance I mean you're at the board level you're dealing with CIOs application heads line of business heads I mean your Deloitte you get some visibility I think we'll just kind of go back to what I was saying earlier right I think having a better view of the application portfolio is what's going to start that process right you know again going back to what I said earlier the we have clients who have thousands and thousands of applications and and they have they don't have the slightest clue on what's in that portfolio let alone the attributes that make up those those applications right so really starting there to understand you know what's important to them what are their requirements understanding that application portfolio a little bit more right and and marrying those with those requirements that's what's really going to drive a lot of these decision-making we have one of our methods of engagement is something we start off with in a kind of a shorter sprint model or our cloud value calculator and really trying to quantify what's that what's that investment really worth what are we what do we expect back you know are you moving it for TCO reasons or is there something that more profound that can happen back to the bottom line of the business and really try to put it in those type of terms then you know just a technology move yeah because I was thinking you know the cost of repatriation has got to be pretty significant so in terms of looking at and working with say the retail customer that you mentioned or the insurance example Luis that you mentioned when you're helping them identify the right strategy and really looking at the business imperatives for doing this quickly this repatriation what are some of the business outcomes that say this retailer is achieving that makes this repatriation cost expense very much worth it yeah I think it's I think it's peak right you know I mean we talked about cost a lot but I mean cost has become less of a factor in decision-making I mean our clients regardless the industry they're looking for speed to market right you know how do I deliver services how do I change faster than my you know my competitors right you know so it's it's it's it really right now it's all about speed how do I do things faster you know obviously cost is a factor of that right but you know beating your competitor out to the month I mean we always talk about you know regardless with the company is there everybody's a technology company all right and I actually believe that right you know so if the faster that you can do the faster you get your products and services to market that's what spread that's what's really does this customer this retail customer have it hey where we are 2x faster to market now that we've gone through this yeah as a matter of fact I don't know if we can't talk about some of those specifics but yeah they have definitely seen an uptick in the speed the market to be able to deliver new services to help drive business with the strategic foundation that they derive with you guys yes I'll add you know the other thing is regulations are changing worldwide right every day when Tina data sovereignty laws whatever it may be and if your cloud provider is not in that region or doesn't have the same level of services that you have say in the US what do you do so again other reasons for kind of having those does that reap retried it repatriated model so that you can kind of go wherever you need to go as far as your business expansion excellent guys I wish we had more time there's so much to talk about here but Louise Bob thanks so much for stopping by the Conservatives County with David mean we appreciate it have a great rest of your show Thank You Jay thank you Lisa our pleasure for Dave Volante I'm Lisa Martin live from Las Vegas if you thought your heard dogs barking by the way you weren't imagining that we are right next to Michael's angel paws one of my favorite parts of this entire event with about 15,000 people or so you're watching the cube live from day 2 of our coverage of gel technology world 2019 thanks for watching [Music]

>> From Seattle. Washington. It's the key you covering Goob Khan and Cloud Native Con North America. Twenty eighteen. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partner. >> Okay. Welcome back. It runs the cubes. Live coverage of three days Wall to wall here at Koop Khan and Cloud Native Khan, twenty eighteen in Seattle, where day three only actions happening. Mr Keep John for was to Minuteman where you have bread. French Compton, Tina. Director, Technical Market had read, had breaking down the container storage trends and directions. Costly containers are super important. That's happened. Communities has happened. Now. New things were happening around a lot of innovation. Thanks for coming on the Q. Appreciate it. >> Thanks for having me back. >> So what's the state of the art of containers of trends? Some of the market directions? What's going on around containers? >> Well, here at this show, of course, it's been all about service mesh. Right is Theo. Service mesh, dynamically dynamic discovery, dynamic invocation of services. But all of those things Well, a certain percentage of those things, according to Keynote, require some type of persistent so eso yet service message, service meshes and persistence. >> So storage is a big part of the networking and compute all working together. The cloud that's been a big part of it. What's what's important here in this show? What's going on this week. That's really impacting that piece of it. That container in storage you mentioned state versus stateless work area stateless is to find people from persistence in state become important and applications. How much conversation's been here this week on that piece >> we'll talk about this week, and then I'll talk about the last couple of weeks this week. There, there. Couple of significant thing is going on. They're going to sort of unleash innovation in persistence as it pertains to the coup bernetti subsystem. First, of course, is a container storage inter. See, you know, today, all the all of the volume plug ins have been entry. You want to change. You know, some vendor wants to change their their storage capabilities. They need to re compile the binaries. Very slow. Very, very non agile. Of course, with the advent of the container storage interface, it's okay. Here's the common interface. All the all the volume plugging providers right to that interface so they could. Then they Khun Iterated to their heart's content without having to change the the entry >> source. So the impact is what? Speed, agility, >> agility of innovation, allowing all those guys t innovate Kind of the second thing. That's so that's man of discussion this week. Another thing's been a discussion you've seen in the in some of the sessions and stuff is the operator framework, you know, coming a champion by the Coral West guys, of course. Now part of Red hat, the operator framework in terms of effectively automating things that human operators would do for complex subsystems. Such a CZ storage. Eso basic installation based basic upgrades, you know, monitoring those services. So when you know something falls over, what do you do with that type of stuff? So I'd say C s I container storage interface as well as operator from me. Those are some of the things have been talked about this week. I still want to go back. Talk about last week, but go ahead. >> I wonder if you could tease this out a little before. So, you know, lost five years. You know, container ization, Cooper Netease. You know, massive change the way we think about architectures. Things like networking in storage. I have often been the anchor to kind of hold us down to be ableto make changes faster. Virtual ization helped some, but you know, container ization. We're gonna have to fix some of these same things. What conversations you're having with customers, You know, give us the latest on the, you know, the state versus state falls we heard in the keynote. It was They said forty percent of deployments have, you know, st full applications out there spending on numbers. And, you know, it's definitely has been growing. And at least I can do it as opposed to, you know, two years ago, it was like, Okay, we're doing containers, but we're just going to stateless for now, and we'll try to figure out what architectures goingto work. Even a year ago at this show, I heard in the back rooms there were lots of arguments as to which one of the storage projects was going to lead and seems seems like we're getting some maturity. I hope we hope to give us some visibility is where we are, and you know what's working and what still needs to be done. >> So although the industry talks about serve earless there, not yet talking about data lists, the or storage lists. I mean, you know, if we threw out the basic principle of data gravity data is the sun around which applications services rotate And so even I mean, even stateless aps stateless app Still do I owe frequently? The io of stateless apse is, you know, be arrest Will puts and gets to an object store that actually brings me. So let's let's talk about let's unpack the stateless and then let's go to St ful. So I'm gonna come back. Tio some of the conversations. A couple of weeks ago, Red had announced the acquisition of Nuba and Israeli Company. So when you think about what new Bob Plus sef due to provide stateless aps with a common set of Davis, a common set of David data services across the hybrid and multi cloud so those stateless app saying, Okay, I'm going to do I'm going to rest well puts and gets. But, man, it's complicated. If I'm gonna have to develop to various proprietary protocols I've got, you know, the is your blob protocol. I've got a W. S s three. I'm talking Teo Google persistent disc. And then if I want to run hybrid, I'm also talking to SEF objects storage on premises. And if I'm a developer I'm thinking, man, Wouldn't it be nice if I had a common set of David data services, including common protocol to talkto all of those different cloud storage back end? So, Nuba some people kind of call it a cloud storage controller provides that kind of common data services. So things like common FBI protocol? Um, things like mirroring. So you you want to write, right Once you're uprights once and it smeared across the various cloud object storage back ends to facilitate easy migration. The second one I wanna uproot to move over here. Your data is already there. So that's, uh that's a couple of reasons. And some of the conversation from a couple weeks ago about how Nuba plus self are helping stateless aps get Teo hybrid and multi cloud >> this. I think that is a great point. You have a hybrid cloud and multi cloud coming around the corner, which is about choice, Right? But see, I CD pipe lining of having a consistent developer environment clearly is one of the main benefits we're seeing in this community here. Okay, I got some sulfur developers with crank teams move around that consistency, no matter where were the environment is just really good goodness. Their storage is interesting and data is that because you're right, the sun is the data and every is orbiting around it. That's the Holy Grail. This is what people want. They want addressable data. They wanted real time. They wanna have an access. They don't want to do all this code to configure manage data, and it's complicate. Got data warehouses? You got time. Siri's data so date is getting more complicated, but it needs to be simple. So this is kind of challenge of the industry. How are you guys seeing that with open ship? How is your container piece fit in? How do you guys make that easy for customers to say? Look, I want to have that data like I wanted intelligent, that brick of access to data. So my abs don't have to do all the heavy lifting almost like Dev ops for data. It's like day tops, like I need to have programmable data on the absolutely which, which have thoughts on that. >> So first I wanna I wanna address that in two ways. The first is about open shipped itself that what you described is in fact, the sweet spot of what open shift is providing a common set of Cooper Nettie Services. Plus. See, I see the pipeline services for developers and operation staff independent of your cloud infrastructures. So whether open shift is running on top of a heavy west, whether it's running on top of his your whether it's running on top of the G, C. P. Whether it's running on premises on bare metal, you know, common set of cou bernetti services and CD pipeline services. Okay, that so what you described there's wanted to just highlight that That is open ship hybrid multi >> valuable check. That's awesome data >> now coming down. Coming down to data. So, in fact, open shift container storage is the mirror analog to open shift for that, providing a common set of Cooper Netease volume services. Independent of what? The storage substrate. ID. So think about it. If you're If you're inside of eight of us, you've got CBS is what's you know? When in Rome, act as the Romans. You've got E. B s there when you're inside of eight of us. Well, the type of communities volumes service of the CBS provides natively differed them for instance, when you're on premises and it's surfacing via and NFS plug in, maybe different. Likewise. We're inside of a CZ. You're with your persistent disco, so open shift container storage device the same type of abstraction Lee are providing a common set of cou bernetti communities volumes services independent of what? The storage server layer is so >> cool you guys was tracked away the complexity. So the APP developer doesn't do anything about storage on those discreet platforms, >> doesn't know anything about storage and provides a common set of services instead of Well, let's see, this is running on this cloud. I don't have the have a different set of services, so common set of services. >> So one of things I love about talking right out of the shows is you actually have a lot of customers that are doing this way. Actually, we spoke to one of your customers yesterday. Talk about how you know communities is helping them create sustainable data centers over in Europe. In the Nordics, especially so communities is awesome. But what's really awesome is the things that we can do on top of it. I wonder if you've got, you know, help connect some of this toe. You know, your customers really things, you know? How does this, you know, change the game? How does it change their teams? You know, what can you share with us? >> One of things that I can't. What's what's top of mind. So what's not top of mind for me at the moment is you know what kind of knew how their reinventing the world what is top of mind with me right now? We've just been studying. Our our results is we look back and this is a little bit of a A Okay? It's a trend, but it's a different kind of friend you're talking about. In the last six quarters, we've had six hundred percent growth with open ship container storage. Um, so And now we send last six quarters were also at a point. Now we're seeing some of those same folks from the Nordics here. You're describing that are coming back now, you know, they have experimented on, So there are some There are Cem Cem cruise ship. There's a cruise ship company that is deployed this on on ships. What we're now seeing. What's very gratifying for us is they're coming back now for a second pass. Now, a year into it, it's okay. Clearly, it must be providing enough value that you come back. Okay. I want to buy this for another ship or more shifts. That's gratifying for us. The first year was, let's see. Let's try this uber Netease, this open ship container store stuff out. But, you know, coming back to the trough for another take, It's good for us. >> And what's going around the corner? He opens shifting, doing great. I love this abstraction layer we're seeing for the first time in the industry, clear visibility and a real value proposition. When I were joking yesterday, you know, we were at open stack years ago, or even Cube con three years ago. We would ask the question If you had a magic wand, what would you hope to have happened? It's actually some of the things that are actually happening. I mean, clean, heavy lifting is gone, and all the developer side consistency, productivity, better advantage on the application development side and then taking away all the hassles of having that she trained people on multiple clouds. So this is kind of happening. What's next? So what's the next next, uh, bowling pin to fall down? What's the, you know, Hit the front ten. What's next? What's going on? How do you guys see the next innovation around Open ship and storage containers, >> cloud independent data services and mobility. So independent of the clouds. And again, it's hybrid, too. So you don't want to be locked into your own cloud either. So cloud independent data services and mobility. So he said, Listen, I want to be I want to have a common de doop compression mirroring, but I want to sit in the layer above my clouds back to the data gravity thing. I want to ensure that my data is where I need it on different clouds. So I'm elevating to a new layer this this cloud storage controller, this this cloud independent set of data services way. Think that's where the pucks going? >> Yeah, I think the data date is critical, I think. Way said years ago. Data ops. There's a Dev ops model for data. You look at that way's not just putting into a data lake actually making it useful. Yeah, Thanks. Come on. Cuba. Here. Bringing all the data here. The Cube. We're sharing it here. Live in Seattle. Is our third year coop coming there from the beginning? That's the cubes coverage of Cloud Native Khan and Coop gone. Bring all the action here. Was red hot on the Cube. Back with more live coverage. Stay with us. Day three, three days ago off the wall. Coverage will be back after this short break.