>>Hi, welcome to this cube conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John fur, host of the cube here at our headquarters on the west coast in Palo Alto, California. Got a great news guest here. Matt McGill, Wayne managing director of Madrona venture group is here with me on the big news and drone raising their record 690 million fund and partnering with their innovative founders. Matt, thanks for coming on and, and talking about the news and congratulations on the dry powder. >>Well, Hey, thanks so much, John. Appreciate you having me on the show. >>Well, great news here. Oley validation. We're in a new market. Everyone's talking about the new normal, we're talking about a recession inflation, but yet we've been reporting that this is kind of the first generation that cloud hyperscale economic scale and technical benefits have kind of hit any kind of economic downturn. If you go back to to 2008, our last downturn, the cloud really hasn't hit that tipping point. Now the innovation, as we've been reporting with our startup showcases and looking at the results from the hyperscalers, this funding news is kind of validation that the tech society intersection is working. You guys just get to the news 430 million in the Madrona fund nine and 200. And I think 60 million acceleration fund three, which means you're gonna go stay with your roots with seed early stage and then have some rocket fuel for kind of the accelerated expansion growth side of it. Not like late stage growth, but like scaling growth. This is kind of the news. Is that right? >>That's right. You know, we, we've had a long time strategy over 25 years here in Seattle of being early, early stage. You know, it's like our friends at Amazon like to say is, well, we're there at day one and we wanna help build companies for the long run for over 25 years. We've been doing that in Seattle. And I think one of the things we've realized, I mean, this is, these funds are the largest funds ever raised by a Seattle based venture capital firm and that's notable in and of itself. But we think that's the reason is because Seattle has continued to innovate in areas like consumer internet software cloud, of course, where the cloud capital of the world and increasingly the applications of machine learning. And so with all that combination, we believe there's a ton more companies to be built here in the Pacific Northwest and in Seattle in particular. And then through our acceleration fund where we're investing in companies anywhere in the country, in fact, anywhere in the world, those are the kinds of companies that want to have the Seattle point of view. They don't understand how to work with Amazon and AWS. They don't understand how to work with Microsoft and we have some unique relationships in those places and we think we can help them succeed in doing that. >>You know, it's notable that you guys in particular have been very close with Jeff Bayo Andy Jesse, and the success of ABUS as well as Microsoft. So, you know, Seattle has become cloud city. Everyone kind of knows that from a cloud perspective, obviously Microsoft's roots have been there for a long, long time. You go back, I mean, August capital, early days, funding Microsoft. You remember those days not to date myself, but you know, Microsoft kind of went up there and kind of established it a Amazon there as well. Now you got Google here, you got Facebook in the valley. You guys are now also coming down. This funding comes on the heels of you appointing a new managing director here in Palo Alto. This is now the migration of Madrona coming into the valley. Is that right? Is that what we're seeing? >>Well, I think what we're trying to do is bring the things that we know uniquely from Seattle and the companies here down to Silicon valley. We've got a terrific partner in Karama Hend, Andrew he's somebody that we have worked together with over the years, co-investing in companies. So we knew him really well. It was a bit opportunistic for us, but what we're hearing over and over again is a lot of these companies based in the valley, based in other parts of the country, they don't know really how to best work with the Microsoft and Amazons are understand the services that they offer. And, you know, we have that capability. We have those relationships. We wanna bring that to bear and helping build great companies. >>What is your expectation on the Silicon valley presence here? You can kind of give a hint here kind of a gateway to Seattle, but you got a lot of developers here. We just reported this morning that MEA just open source pie, torch to the Linux foundation again, and Mary material kind of trend we are seeing open source now has become there's no debate anymore has become the software industry. There's no more issue around that. This is real. I >>Think that's right. I mean, you know, once, you know, Satya became CEO, Microsoft, and they started embracing open source, you know, that was gonna be the last big tech holdout. We think open source is very interesting in terms of what it can produce and create in terms of next generation, innovative innovation. It's great to see companies like Facebook like Uber and others that have had a long track record of open source capabilities. But what we're also seeing is you need to build businesses around that, that a lot of enterprises don't wanna buy just the open source and stitch it together themselves. They want somebody to do it with them. And whether that's the way that, you know, companies like MongoDB have built that out over time or that's, you know, or elastic or, you know, companies like opt ML and our portfolio, or even the big cloud, you know, hyperscalers, you know, they are increasingly embracing open source and building finished services, managed services on top of it. So that's a big wave that we've been investing in for a number of years now and are highly confident gonna >>Continue. You know, I've been a big fan of Pacific Northwest for a while. You know, love going up there and talking to the folks at Microsoft and Amazon and AWS, but there's been a big trend in venture capital where a lot of the, the later stage folks, including private equity have come in, you seen tiger global even tiger global alumni, that the Cubs they call them, you know, they're coming down and playing in the early state and the results haven't been that good. You guys have had a track record in your success. Again, a hundred percent of your institutional investors have honed up with you on this two fund strategy of close to 700 million. What's this formula says, why aren't they winning what's is it, they don't have the ecosystem? Is it they're spraying and praying without a lot of discipline? What's the dynamic between the folks like Madrona, the Neas of the world who kind of come in and Sequoia who kind of do it right, right. Come in. And they get it done in the right way. The early stage. I just say the private equity folks, >>You know, I think that early stage venture is a local business. It is a geographically proximate business when you're helping incredible founders, try to really dial in that early founder market fit. This is before you even get to product market fit. And, and so the, the team building that goes on the talking to potential customers, the ITER iterating on business strategy, this is a roll up your sleeves kind of thing. It's not a financial transaction. And so what you're trying to do is have a presence and an understanding, a prepared mind of one of the big themes and the kinds of founders that with, you know, our encouragement and our help can go build lasting companies. Now, when you get to a, a, a later stage, you know, you get to that growth stage. It is generally more of a financial, you know, kind of engineering sort of proposition. And there's some folks that are great at that. What we do is we support these companies all the way through. We reserve enough capital to be with them at the seed stage, the series B stage the, you know, the crossover round before you go public, all of those sorts of things. And we love partnering with some of these other people, but there's a lot of heavy lifting at the early, early stages of a business. And it's, it's not, I think a model that everybody's architected to do >>Well, you know, trust becomes a big factor in all this. You kind of, when you talk about like that, I hear you speaking. It makes me think of like trusted advisor meets money, not so much telling people what to do. You guys have had a good track record and, and being added value, not values from track. And sometimes that values from track is getting in the way of the entrepreneur by, you know, running the certain meetings, driving board meetings and driving the agenda that you see to see that trend where people try too hard and that a force function, the entrepreneur we're living in a world now where everyone's talking to each other, you got, you know, there's no more glass door it's everyone's on Twitter, right? So you can see some move, someone trying to control the supply chain of talent by term sheet, overvaluing them. >>You guys are, have a different strategy. You guys have a network I've noticed that Madrona has attracted them high end talent coming outta Microsoft outta AWS season, season, senior talent. I won't say, you know, senior citizens, but you know, people have done things scaled up businesses, as well as attract young talent. Can you share with our audience that dynamic of the, the seasoned veterans, the systems thinkers, the ones who have been there done that built software, built teams to the new young entrepreneurs coming in, what's the dynamic, like, how do you guys look at at those networks? How do you nurture them? Could you share your, your strategy on how you're gonna pull all this together, going forward? >>You know, we, we think a lot about building the innovation ecosystem, like a phrase around here that you hear a lot is the bigger pie theory. How do we build the bigger pie? If we're focusing on building the bigger pie, there'll be plenty of that pie for Madrona Madrona companies. And in that mindset says, okay, how are we gonna invest in the innovation ecosystem? And then actually to use a term, you know, one of our founders who unfortunately passed away this year, Tom Aber, he had just written a book called flywheel. And I think it embodies this mindset that we have of how do you create that flywheel within a community? And of course, interestingly enough, I think Tom both learned and contributed to that. He was on the board of Amazon for almost 20 years in helping build some of the flywheels at Amazon. >>So that's what we carry forward. And we know that there's a lot of value in experiential learning. And so we've been fortunate to have some folks, you know, that have worked at some of those, you know, kind iconic companies, join us and find that they really love this company building journey. We've also got some terrific younger folks that have, you know, some very fresh perspectives and a lot of, a lot of creativity. And they're bringing that together with our team overall. And you know, what we really are trying to do at the end of the day is find incredible founders who wanna build something lasting, insignificant, and provide our kind of our time, our best ideas, our, our perspective. And of course our capital to help them be >>Successful. I love the ecosystem play. I think that's a human capital game too. I like the way you guys are thinking about that. I do wanna get your reaction, cause I know you're close to Amazon and Microsoft, but mainly Jeff Bezos as well. You mentioned your, your partner who passed away was on the board. A lot of great props on and tributes online. I saw that, I know I didn't know him at all. So I really can't comment, but I did notice that Bezos and, and jazz in particular were complimentary. And recently I just saw Bezos comment on Twitter about the, you know, the Lord of the rings movie. They're putting out the series and he says, you gotta have a team. That's kinda like rebels. I'm paraphrasing, cuz these folks never done a movie like this before. So they're, they're getting good props and reviews in this new world order where entrepreneurs gotta do things different. >>What's the one thing that you think entrepreneurs need to do different to make this next startup journey different and successful because the world is different. There's not a lot of press to relate to Andy Jassey even on stage last week in, in, in LA was kind of, he's not really revealing. He's on his talking points, message, the press aren't out there and big numbers anymore. And you got a lot of different go-to market strategies, omnichannel, social different ways to communicate to customers. Yeah. So product market fit is becomes big. So how do you see this new flywheel emerging for those entrepreneurs have to go out there, roll up their sleeves and make it happen. And what kind of resources do you think they need to be successful? What are you guys advocating? >>Well, you know, what's really interesting about that question is I've heard Jeff say many times that when people ask him, what's gotta be different. He, he reminds them to think about what's not gonna change. And he usually starts to then talk about things like price, convenience, and selection. Customer's never gonna want a higher price, less convenience, smaller selection. And so when you build on some of those principles of, what's not gonna change, it's easier for you to understand what could be changing as it relates to the differences. One of the biggest differences, I don't think any of us have fully figured out yet is what does it mean to be productive in a hybrid work mode? We happen to believe that it's still gonna have a kernel of people that are geographically close, that are part of the founding and building in the early stages of a company. >>And, and it's an and equation that they're going to also have people that are distributed around the country, perhaps around the world that are some of the best talent that they attract to their team. The other thing that I think coming back to what remains the same is being hyper focused on a certain customer and a certain problem that you're passionate about solving. And that's really what we look for when we look for this founder market fit. And it can be a lot of different things from the next generation water bottle to a better way to handle deep learning models and get 'em deployed in the cloud. If you've got that passion and you've got some inkling of the skill of how to build a better solution, that's never gonna go away. That's gonna be enduring, but exactly how you do that as a team in a hybrid world, I think that's gonna be different. >>Yeah. One thing that's not changing is that your investor, makeup's not changing a hundred percent of your existing institutional investors have signed back on with you guys and your oversubscribed, lot of demand. What is your flywheel success formula? Why is Tron is so successful? Can you share some feedback from your investors? What are they saying? Why are they re-upping share some inside baseball or anecdotal praise? >>Well, I think it's very kind to you to frame it that way. I mean, you know, it does for investors come back to performance. You know, these are university endowments and foundations that have a responsibility to, to generate great returns. And we understand that and we're very aligned with that. I think to be specific in the last couple years, they appreciated that we were also not holding onto our, our stocks forever, that we actually made some thoughtful decisions to sell some shares of companies like Smartsheet and snowflake and accolade in others, and actually distribute capital back to them when things were looking really, really good. But I think the thing, other thing that's very important here is that we've created a flywheel with our core strategy being Seattle based and then going out from there to try to find the best founders, build great companies with them, roll up our sleeves in a productive way and help them for the long term, which now leads to multiple generations of people, you know, at those companies. And beyond that we wanna be, you know, partner with and back again. And so you create this flywheel by having success with people in doing it in a respectful. And as you said earlier, a trusted way, >>What's the message for the Silicon valley crowd, obviously bay area, Silicon valley, Palo Alto office, and the center of it. Obviously you got them hybrid workforce hybrid venture model developing what's the goals. What's the message for Silicon valley? >>Well, our message for folks in Silicon valley is the same. It's always been, we we're excited to partner with them largely up here again, cause this is still our home base, but there'll be a, you know, select number of opportunities where we'll get a chance to partner together down in Silicon valley. And we think we bring something different with that deep understanding of cloud computing, that deep understanding of applied machine learning. And of course, some of our unique relationships up here that can be additive to what the they've already done. And some of them are just great partners and have built, you know, help build some really incredible companies over >>The years. Matt, I really appreciate you taking the time for this interview, given them big news. I guess the question on everyone's mind, certainly the entrepreneur's mind is how do I get some of that cash you have and put it into work for my opportunity. One what's the investment thesis can take a minute to put the plug in for the firm. What are you looking to invest in? What's the thesis? What kind of entrepreneurs you're looking for? I know fund one is seed fund nine is seed to, to a and B and the second one is beyond B and beyond for growth. What's the pitch. What's the pitch. >>Yeah. Well you can, you can think of us as you know, any stage from pre-seed to series seed. You know, we'll make a new investment in companies in all of those stages. You know, I think that, you know, the, the core pitch, you know, to us is, you know, your passion for the, for the problem that you're trying to, trying to get solved. And we're of course, very excited about that. And you know, at, at, at the end of the day, you know, if you want somebody that has a distinct point of view on the market that is based up here and can roll up their sleeves and work alongside you. We're, we're, we're the ones that are more than happy to do that. Proven track record of doing that for 25 plus years. And there's so much innovation ahead. There's so many opportunities to disrupt to pioneer, and we're excited to be a part of working with great founders to do that. >>Well, great stuff. We'll see you ATS reinvent coming up shortly and your annual get together. You always have your crew down there and, and team engaging with some of the cloud players as well. And looking forward to seeing how the Palo Alto team expands out. And Matt, thanks for coming on the cube. Appreciate your time. >>Thanks very much, John. Appreciate you having me look forward to seeing you at reinvent. >>Okay. Matt, Matt here with Madrona venture group, he's the partner managing partner Madrona group raises 690 million to fund nine and, and, and again, and big funds for accelerated growth fund. Three lot of dry powder. Again, entrepreneurship in technology is scaling. It's not going down. It's continuing to accelerate into this next generation super cloud multi-cloud hybrid cloud world steady state. This is the cubes coverage. I'm John for Silicon angle and host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

(bright upbeat music) >> Welcome, everyone, to this Cube conversation. It's part of our season two, episode four of the ongoing AWS Startup Showcase Series. Today's theme, "Cybersecurity: Detect and Protect Against Threats." I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I've got one of our alumni back with us. Rakesh Narasimhan joins me, President and CEO of Anitian. Rakesh, it's great to have you back on the program. >> Thank you very much. Pleasure to be here. >> So some congratulations are in order. I see that Anitian was recently awarded nine global InfoSec awards at RSA conference just this year including couple great titles here hot company and security company of the year. Talk to the audience who knows Anitian what is it doing to enable and empower the digital transformation for enterprises that are, I mean, we've been talking about the acceleration of digital transformation. How is Anitian an enabler of that? >> Thank you again for the opportunity. I think the big change that we brought to the table in Anitian is really what is typically a very manual, complex time consuming and quite expensive process. We've just brought software innovations to it and really that's customers who are trying to do compliance or security in the cloud which just provide a platform that basically accelerates a customer's application migration to cloud. And so that ability is the software innovation that we were able to bring to the space and that just wasn't there before. And so we're just happy that we took the opportunity to innovate there and just bring it to the customers. >> So let's now talk to and address those AWS customers. When you're talking to prospects, existing AWS customers what do you say are the differentiators that makes Anitian so unique when in AWS. >> That's a great question. I think the biggest innovation, the biggest thing that we bring to the table is really an acceleration and timeline and completion of their application. So if you're a customer and you're trying to get into a new market for compliance, for example or you're trying to basically get a new application up and running in a secure environment in either one of those cases, we have a product offering a platform offering that enables you to quickly get up and running and get to production. And that's been the reason why we've enjoyed enormous success in the marketplace in the AWS customer base. >> One of the areas where I see that an Anitian has been very successful is in helping cloud software vendors get FedRAMP compliance and be able to access what is a huge federal market. How are you able to do that? >> Yeah, I think the big thing that we focused on was you have a complete class of SaaS vendors out there who provide enormous innovation that they bring to the marketplace but the government market in general has not been able to participate in it because it again, like I said, it's very complex. It takes time and it's very expensive. And so we focused on that opportunity to really make it easier for all these cloud service providers to be able to bring their innovations to the government market, for example, with FedRAMP and so we help with the automation and the acceleration with our platform offering on top of cloud providers like AWS, and that enables the SaaS provider to offer that opportunity that hitherto is not available to now make it available in the government marketplace. And that's a huge buyer, if you will their budgets are huge. They're still buying even on a downturn in the market even as commercial vendors, who look at that, that market everybody's nervous about it. But if you look at the government market they have budget, they're buying and that needs to be provided to the install base. And so we help make that happen. >> How does that make you unique from a competitive perspective to be able to accelerate veteran for AWS customers in particular? >> I think the biggest issue has always been three things, right? It's complex, it's time consuming but most importantly, how quickly can a company make their software innovations available to a large market has always been sort of the challenge especially in the federal market. So we basically pre-engineering a platform taking care of all the requirements of the standard in compliance and security and then essentially help the customer bring that innovation on top of the AWS environment and making that available to the customers and record time. That's the reason why we're able to enjoy the success. Historically, the space has been very very focused on a lot of consulting folks really providing consulting on an hourly basis. We thought of actually bringing a software oriented approach just like people buy email, they buy service and then all the innovations that come along with it for the subscription that you pay. It's a very similar concept we brought to this space prior to this, either people did it themselves or they hired a lot of consulting folks to tell them what to do. And that could take a long time and then not just time and expense but every single time they made a change they would still, again, have to go redo all that work. We just brought a platform approach which is well understood by now in the industry you pay a subscription, you buy a platform and all the innovations come along for them. So that's huge productivity, time to market but most importantly it enables them to achieve their revenue goals because they're trying to get to market and service the customer, right? So we help them accomplish that in record time. >> So you are really impacting your customer's bottom line. You've been very successful in helping AWS public sector customers to accelerate FedRAMP. As you talked about FedRAMP compliance how are you now switching gears to focus on the AWS commercial customers and even enterprise DevOps teams to be able to accelerate cloud application security? >> Yeah, I think, again we started from a place of humility, if you will. You know, there's a lot of vendors a lot of folks make a lot of claims. We wanted to make sure that we first we're very good at doing something. And that's something was really go after the federal market and the success we achieved in that marketplace had a few insights for ourselves which was people really struggle in all kinds of environments, not just public sector. And what we found is that commercial customers are also trying to go to cloud. They're also dealing with the issues of security in securing their environments. And it's really the DevOps and DevSecOps folks on whom this burden falls. And they have to answer to so many different constituencies in an enterprise company. And so we time and time again while we did the work in FedRAMP we learned that, you know it's not just about compliance. It's also about securing on a base of standards. So how could we provide the same pre-engineered environment for DevOps and DevSecops teams to be able to run that environment for their applications that became an 'aha' for us because we were running into it all the time in the public sector side. So we went and talked to a few customers and said, 'Hey, how about we do the same thing on the commercial side for you?' And I wish I could take credit for this but it's actually not true. It's actually customers who came to us and said, 'Hey you did this really well for us in public sector side. Could you provide the same thing for us in the commercial side?' where it's not about all the documentation and all the audits and things that happen on the compliance side of the house. I just want you to provide an environment so that our DevOps teams could just operate in that environment and Devs can work on it. Can you do that? And we'll pay you. And that was born really our idea of secure cloud enterprise. Our primary offering historically has been secure cloud compliance with a compliance business if you will, where people could go into market and have a completely new market to go after. Whereas in the enterprise side we brought those innovations, those learnings and brought it to a commercial market. And so that's the new product, if you will, that we're launching to service that customer base, if you will. >> So if I'm an AWS customer when do I know it's time to contact Anitian and say, 'Guys we need help and we think you're the right ones to help us accelerate.' >> Yeah, I think it's re really straightforward if you are a customer commercial SaaS vendor, if you will, that runs an AWS and you want to go after a new market then you come to us and we can help you quickly get to all the compliance standards so that you can go sell in the government marketplace. That's an offering we already have, or you are a a brand new company and B2B company and you're developing an application and you want a pre-engineered environment that passes all the security standards so that you don't have to worry about it. You have a subscription to AWS and you have a subscription to us. And then that basically provides you a secure environment in which you can start developing your applications and start developing, deploying them much like your DevOps cycle would work. So we provide that basis already for you. So if you're a customer on the B2B side and you're going to cloud to get your applications to the marketplace on AWS, we're a great solution for you to actually have that engineered platform in place already. So those are the two areas where you can contact us and we can help you out. >> And talk to me about when you are in customer conversations especially as we've had such challenging times the last couple of years, how have those customer conversations changed and evolved? Are you seeing an acceleration up the C-suite stack? Is this a key priority for the CEO and his or her team? >> Yeah, I think it's a phenomenal point. I think security's always been top of mind for folks, not just the C-suite, but in boardrooms as well. But you know, the key thing we found is that even in a down market, sometimes in the environment that is playing out in the macro environment. I think the thing that has not changed is people are still trying to figure out how to make their dollar go further. And how do I get a better return on investment? So if you look at our compliance business that growth is all about that market is growing. There's still opportunity, and people are still having budgets and spending. So commercial companies are still trying to figure out how can I extend my market reach into new markets? So that's an area that the C-suite is really interested in. Funny enough, you would think in the cyber world it's a CSOs who are the ones who actually are looking for solutions from us that certainly an audience but CEOs and CROs are the folks who really clamor for our solution because it is their ability to enter a new market and go after a new budget that can grow their business and have an ROI pretty quickly. That's the ability for them to make that decision. So it's very pertinent to their buying behavior that we have aligned ourselves to very simply put by engaging us. They get to go after a new market to establish a new line of revenue they didn't have before. So that's always interesting to any C-suite member as you can imagine. And that's the compliance side. >> Absolutely establishing new revenue streams is huge and that's a big competitive differentiator. We've seen a lot of customers that weren't able in any industry to do that during the challenging pandemic times. And that is a game changer for organizations across industries. >> Exactly, exactly. And wishing that play out, not just on that side, but even on the commercial side where people are also trying to figure out how do I basically make sure it's pre-done so that it's one less thing for me to have to worry about so that I can be more productive. I can get to market pretty quickly which means I can, again, deliver to my customers quickly which means revenue for them as well. So we are the security business, but really if you notice we're solving a business problem for our customers and we're aligned to their ROI so that it's relatively easier for them to make a decision. They certainly get security in compliance but the bigger benefit for them is to grow their business itself. So we are trying to accelerate that momentum for them. >> That's critical, and I'm sure your customers really appreciate the impact that you're having on their growth, their ability to deliver to what I can only presume is their demanding customers. As one of the things I know that's been in short supply the last couple of years, is patience and tolerance. Is there Rakesh a customer story that you think really articulates the value of what Anitian is delivering? Maybe a favorite customer story that you mentioned when you're giving talks? >> Sure, sure. We really have a very customer base across the landscape. If you think about our compliance business, Smartsheet is a great example who partnered early. They were not even in the cloud before. And then that's a great example with AWS where the three of us work together to offer Smartsheet the collaboration software public SaaS company, if you will, who really established themselves and differentiated themselves in the marketplace by offering that on AWS. And we helped them accomplish their FedRAMP itself not just for once, but you know they've been great customers of ours multiple renewals over the years and every single year that the business that they get on the federal sizes increased because of the work that they did first with us. And so, you know, we've look for more opportunities with them, certainly on that part. And increasingly we start thinking about where else can we help them grow? Because typically most customers have a thing to solve on a compliance standard, but it turns out that the compliance journey is, you know some companies are trying to do Socto to be able to even sell. Then you want to do electronic commerce. You might have to do PCI or you want to sell under the federal government. You'll have to do FedRAMP and FedRAMP has moderate, high but depending on the customers you have, including DOD and once you get to DOD, they'll ask for IL4 and IL5. So these are different compliance regimes. If you will think of them as a journey and we want to be the company that provides a seamless progression for customers as they're on that journey so that we can actually deliver something of value. We're not interested in nickel and diamond customers and charging them by the hour, we're a platform player. We want to make sure that they use it to basically get their ROI and growth happening. And we just take care of the hard part of making sure that they're in compliance, right? And similarly, we're bringing the same idea like Smartsheet. I told you about to a commercial marketplace of customers who can do the same thing for commercial apps in the cloud. And so that gives us a very clean way for customers to really become not just productive, but satisfy their customers quickly and hence grow their business. And we celebrate that collaboration and all of that happens because of AWS and our ability to focus on those customers >> Sounds like a great partnership and definite synergy there on I know, and, you know as well, how customer obsessed in their own words AWS. Speaking of customers one more question for you in terms of being on that journey that compliance journey, which isn't a destination, right? It's probably a zigzaggy path. Do you work with customers that both haven't started the process to FedRAMP plans or those that maybe have with a competitor are running into roadblocks? Are those both routes to market for you? >> Yeah, we interestingly enough historically we used to see a lot of folks who have tried to do it themselves and found it hard or for a variety of reasons they just gave up. And so they would come to us. We have also examples of customers who have tried to go down the consulting path and has not worked and come to us so that it's sort of a broken project. We start from there, but a majority of our business is people who've gotten a contract from one of the agencies. Then they're like, 'oh now what!' We need to get this done before September. And so what's the quickest way to get there. And generally that's where we can help you because we are the best, fastest way to get there. And so we get that mix of customers people who have already tried hasn't worked out people who have tried with other folks hasn't worked out, but a majority of the folks are people who don't even know, you know how to go about doing it, but they know they have to do it in order for them to keep the customer that they've won one of the agencies, if you will. So that has given us a very healthy perspective on how to help customers of different kinds in that journey. The other thing is, you know, we've grown tremendously in the last couple of years. And the other thing we learned is every customer is different. And we tried to bring a very common approach to addressing this problem. Even though customers come in all shapes and forms we have startup companies in, you know early forms of maturity. And we have like really iconic, you know unicorn companies who we've helped go through FedRAMP. So the gamut is large, but you know we're learning a lot by doing this. And I think that's the key thing for me. I want our company to be one that is growing with innovation, but at the same time keeping flexibility in our approach so that we are not just learning new things, we're delivering on the harder problems our customers are facing. Cause I think that's where software innovation can really play a big differentiating role. And that's the reason why I always enjoyed being at Anitian and growing the business and keeping the company really, fast moving and innovative. >> Speaking of being fast moving and innovative here we are coming up on the fourth quarter of calendar year 22, what's next for Anitian? What are some of the exciting things that have you pumped up? Have you mojo going for what's next for the rest of the year? >> Yeah, I think a big portion of my enthusiasm for the company and the road ahead is I think it's rare if you look at the industry, oftentimes you see companies that start out with a single solution and then are able to grow from there. One of the best advantages Anitian has is this platform centric approach to do compliance on the journey I talked about. So if you think about that journey every customer that is going to cloud has this challenge that, they either have to comply do a bunch of standards, one or many. And then how do I do that in a platform approach in a common way so that I don't have to worry about it. I play a subscription and I am just protected by that. And I actually get the marketplace. So that's a tremendous journey we are on. We've only done a few of them and we have a whole new set of compliance standards coming on our platform. So that's one way, look forward to that. The other one I'm really looking forward to is the commercial customers. There's a huge opportunity for people to really know that they're sitting on top of a very secure environment in AWS. And how do I quickly propel myself into the marketplace so that I can be differentiated. I can get to market quickly but I can also make sure my innovations are getting to the marketplace as a customer, right? So I think I'm really excited about the things we are bringing to market just not just this year, but next year early next year on the compliance side, as well as the commercial side, that'll actually differentiate us and make it a lasting part of a customer's journey. And that's, I think the best thing you can hope for building a lasting company where your innovations are powering the productivity of your customers in a meaningful manner. And I always feel proud of the team. You mentioned the awards, but honestly more than anything else, we've put together a great team. And the team does a tremendous job with a very good ecosystem of partners. And our humility is it's not just us it's the ecosystem together. And the partnership with Amazon that helps us be the company we are able to be. We live in really story times and we're lucky to be part of this opportunity if you will. >> Yeah better together. That ecosystem is incredibly powerful. Thank you so much Rakesh for talking about what's going on at Anition, how you're helping customers, accelerate FedRAMP compliance, what you're doing in the commercial space and how you're helping your customers really improve their bottom line. We thank you so much for partnering with the Cube for season two, episode four of the AWS startup showcase. >> My pleasure. Thank you very much. >> And we want to thank you for watching but keep it right here for more action on the Cube which as you know, is your leader in tech coverage. I'm Lisa Martin. See you next time. (lively music)

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> In our 2020 predictions post, we said that organizations would begin to operationalize their digital transformation experiments and POCs. We also said that based on spending data that cybersecurity companies like CrowdStrike and Okta were poised to rise above the rest in 2020, and we even said the S&P 500 would surpass 3,700 this year. Little did we know that we'd have a pandemic that would make these predictions a virtual lock, and, of course, COVID did blow us out of the water in some other areas, like our prediction that IT spending would increase plus 4% in 2020, when in reality, we have a dropping by 4%. We made a number of other calls that did pretty well, but I'll let you review last year's predictions at your leisure to see how we did. Hello, everyone. This is Dave Vellante and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. Erik Bradley of ETR is joining me again for this Breaking Analysis, and we're going to lay out our top picks for 2021. Erik, great to see you. Welcome back. Happy to have you on theCUBE, my friend. >> Always great to see you too, Dave. I'm excited about these picks this year. >> Well, let's get right into it. Let's bring up the first prediction here. Tech spending will rebound in 2021. We expect a 4% midpoint increase next year in spending. Erik, there are a number of factors that really support this prediction, which of course is based on ETR's most recent survey work, and we've listed a number of them here in this slide. I wonder if we can talk about that a little bit, the pace of the vaccine rollout. I've called this a forced march to COVID, but I can see people doubling down on things that are working. Productivity improvements are going to go back into the business. People are going to come back to the headquarters and that maybe is going to spur infrastructure on some pent-up demand, and work from home, we're going to talk about that. What are your thoughts on this prediction? >> Well, first of all, you weren't wrong last year. You were just, (laughs) you were just delayed. Just delayed a little bit, that's all. No, very much so. Early on, just three months ago, we were not seeing this optimism. The most recent survey, however, is capturing 4%. I truly believe that still might be a little bit mild. I think it can go even higher, and that's going to be driven by some of the things you've said about. This is a year where a lot of spending was paused on machine learning, on automation, on some of these projects that had to be stopped because of what we all went through. Right now, that is not a nice to have, it's a must have, and that spending is going quickly. There's a rapid pace on that spending, so I do think that's going to push it and, of course, security. We're going to get to this later on so I don't want to bury the lede, but with what's happening right now, every CISO I speak to is not panicked, but they are concerned and there will definitely be increased security spending that might push this 4% even higher. >> Yeah, and as we've reported as well, the survey data shows that there's less freezing of IT, there are fewer layoffs, there's more hiring, we're accelerating IT deployments, so that, I think, 34% last survey, 34% of organizations are accelerating IT deployments over the next three months, so that's great news. >> And also your point too about hiring. I was remiss in not bringing that up because we had layoffs and we had freezes on hiring. Both of that is stopping. As you know, as more head count comes in, whether that be from home or whether that be in your headquarters, both of those require support and require spending. >> All right, let's bring up the next prediction. Remote worker trends are going to become fossilized, settling in at an average of 34% by year-end 2021. Now, I love this chart, you guys. It's been amazingly consistent to me, Erik. We're showing data here from ETR's latest COVID survey. So it shows that prior to the pandemic, about 15 to 16% of employees on average worked remotely. That jumped to where we are today and well into the 70s, and we're going to stay close to that, according to the ETR data, in the first half of 2021, but by the end of the year, it's going to settle in at around 34%. Erik, that's double the pre-pandemic numbers and that's been consistent in your surveys over the past six month, and even within the sub-samples. >> Yeah, super surprised by the consistency, Dave. You're right about that. We were expecting the most recent data to kind of come down, right? We see the vaccines being rolled out. We kind of thought that that number would shift, but it hasn't, it has been dead consistent, and that's just from the data perspective. What we're hearing from the interviews and the feedback is that's not going to change, it really isn't, and there's a main reason for that. Productivity is up, and we'll talk about that in a second, but if you have productivity up and you have employees happy, they're not commuting, they're working more, they're working effectively, there is no reason to rush. And now imagine if you're a company that's trying to hire the best talent and attract the best talent but you're also the only company telling them where they have to live. I mean, good luck with that, right? So even if a few of them decide to make this permanent, that's something where you're going to really have to follow suit to attract talent. >> Yeah, so let's talk about that. Productivity leads us to our next prediction. We can bring that up. Number three is productivity increases are going to lead organizations to double down on the successes of 2020 and productivity apps are going to benefit. Now, of course, I'm always careful to cautious to interpret when you ask somebody by how much did productivity increase. It's a very hard thing to estimate depending on how you measure it. Is it revenue per employee? Is it profit? But nonetheless, the vast majority of people that we talk to are seeing productivity is going up. The productivity apps are really the winners here. Who do you see, Erik, as really benefiting from this trend? This year we saw Zoom, Teams, even Webex benefit, but how do you see this playing out in 2021? >> Well, first of all, the real beneficiaries are the companies themselves because they are getting more productivity, and our data is not only showing more productivity, but that's continuing to increase over time, so that's number one. But you're 100% right that the reason that's happening is because of the support of the applications and what would have been put in place. Now, what we do expect to see here, early on it was a rising tide lifted all boats, even Citrix got pulled up, but over time you realize Citrix is really just about legacy applications. Maybe that's not really the virtualization platform we need or maybe we just don't want to go that route at all. So the ones that we think are going to win longer term are part of this paradigm shift. The easiest one to put out as example is DocuSign. Nobody is going to travel and sit in an office to sign a paper ever again. It's not happening. I don't care if you go back to the office or you go back to headquarters. This is a paradigm shift that is not temporary. It is permanent. Another one that we're seeing is Smartsheet. Early on it started in. I was a little concerned about it 'cause it was a shadow IT type of a company where it was just spreading and spreading and spreading. It's turned out that this, the data on Smartsheet is continuing to be strong. It's an effective tool for project management when you're remotely working, so that's another one I don't see changing anytime. The other one I would call out would be Twilio. Slightly different, yes. It's more about the customer experience, but when you look at how many brick and mortar or how many in-person transactions have moved online and will stay there, companies like Twilio that support that customer experience, I'll throw out a Qualtrics out there as well, not a name we hear about a lot, but that customer experience software is a name that needs to be watched going forward. >> What do you think's going to happen to Zoom and Teams? Certainly Zoom just escalated this year, a huge ascendancy, and Teams I look at a little differently 'cause it's not just video conferencing, and both have done really, really well. How do you interpret the data that you're seeing there? >> There's no way around it, our data is decelerating quickly, really quickly. We were kind of bullish when Zoom first came out on the IPO prospects. It did very well. Obviously what happened in this remote shift turned them into an absolute overnight huge success. I don't see that continuing going forward, and there's a reason. What we're seeing and hearing from our feedback interviews is that now that people recognize this isn't temporary and they're not scrambling and they need to set up for permanency, they're going to consolidate their spend. They don't need to have Teams and Zoom. It's not necessary. They will consolidate where they can. There's always going to be the players that are going to choose Slack and Zoom 'cause they don't want to be on Microsoft architecture. That's fine, but you and I both know that the majority of large enterprises have Microsoft already. It's bundled in in pricing. I just don't see it happening. There's going to be M&A out there, which we can talk about again soon, so maybe Zoom, just like Slack, gets to a point where somebody thinks it's worthwhile, but there's a lot of other video conferencing out there. They're trying to push their telephony. They're trying to push their mobile solutions. There's a lot of companies out there doing it, so we'll see, but the current market cap does not seem to make sense in a permanent remote work situation. >> I think I'm inferring Teams is a little different because it's Microsoft. They've got this huge software estate they can leverage. They can bundle. Now, it's going to be interesting to see how and if Zoom can then expand its TAM, use its recent largesse to really enter potentially new markets. >> It will be, but listen, just the other day there was another headline that one of Zoom's executives out in China was actually blocking content as per directed by the Chinese government. Those are the kind of headlines that just really just get a little bit difficult when you're running a true enterprise size. Zoom is wonderful in the consumer space, but what I do is I research enterprise technology, and it's going to be really, really difficult to make inroads there with Microsoft. >> Yep. I agree. Okay, let's bring up number four, prediction number four. Permanent shifts in CISO strategies lead to measurable share shifts in network security. So the remote work sort of hyper-pivot, we'll call it, it's definitely exposed us. We've seen recent breaches that underscore the need for change. They've been well-publicized. We've talked a lot about identity access management, cloud security, endpoint security, and so as a result, we've seen the upstarts, and just a couple that we called, CrowdStrike, Okta, Zscaler has really benefited and we expect them to continue to show consistent growth, some well over 50% revenue growth. Erik, you really follow this space closely. You've been focused on microsegmentation and other, some of the big players. What are your thoughts here? >> Yeah, first of all, security, number one in spending overall when we started looking and asking people what their priority is going to be. That's not changing, and that was before the SolarWinds breach. I just had a great interview today with a CISO of a global hospitality enterprise to really talk about the implications of this. It is real. Him and his peers are not panicking but pretty close, is the way he put it, so there is spend happening. So first of all, to your point, continued on Okta, continued on identity access. See no reason why that changes. CrowdStrike, continue. What this is going to do is bring in some new areas, like we just mentioned, in network segmentation. Illumio is a pure play in that name that doesn't have a lot of citations, but I have watched over the last week their net spending score go from about 30 to 60%, so I am watching in real time, as this data comes in in the later part of our survey, that it's really happening Forescout is another one that's in there. We're seeing some of the zero trust names really picking up in the last week. Now, to talk about some of the more established names, yeah, Cisco plays in this space and we can talk about Cisco and what they're doing in security forever. They're really reinventing themselves and doing a great job. Palo Alto was in this space as well, but I do believe that network and microsegmentation is going to be something that's going to continue. The other one I'm going to throw out that I'm hearing a lot about lately is user behavior analytics. People need to be able to watch the trends, compare them to past trends, and catch something sooner. Varonis is a name in that space that we're seeing get a lot of adoptions right now. It's early trend, but based on our data, Varonis is a name to watch in that area as well. >> Yeah, and you mentioned Cisco transitioning, reinventing themselves toward a SaaS player. Their subscription, Cisco's security business is a real bright spot for them. Palo Alto, every time I sit in on a VENN, which is ETR's proprietary roundtable, the CISOs, they love Palo Alto. They want to work, many of them, anyway, want to work with Palo Alto. They see them as a thought leader. They seem to be getting their cloud act together. Fortinet has been doing a pretty good job there and especially for mid-market. So we're going to see this equilibrium, best of breed versus the big portfolio companies, and I think 2021 sets up as a really interesting battle for those guys with momentum and those guys with big portfolios. >> I completely agree and you nailed it again. Palo Alto has this perception that they're really thought leaders in the space and people want to work with them, but let's not rule Cisco out. They have a much, much bigger market cap. They are really good at acquisitions. In the past, they maybe didn't integrate them as well, but it seems like they're getting their act together on that. And they're pushing now what they call SecureX, which is sort of like their own full-on platform in the cloud, and they're starting to market that, I'm starting to hear more about it, and I do think Cisco is really changing people's perception of them. We shall see going forward because in the last year, you're 100% right, Palo Alto definitely got a little bit more of the sentiment, of positive sentiment. Now, let's also realize, and we'll talk about this again in a bit, there's a lot of players out there. There will probably be continued consolidation in the security space, that we'll see what happens, but it's an area where spending is increasing, there is a lot of vendors out there to play with, and I do believe we'll see consolidation in that space. >> Yes. No question. A highly fragmented business. A lack of skills is a real challenge. Automation is a big watch word and so I would expect, which brings us, Erik, to prediction number five. Can be hard to do prediction posts without talking about M&A. We see the trend toward increased tech spending driving more IPOs, SPACs and M&A. We've seen some pretty amazing liquidity events this year. Snowflake, obviously a big one. Airbnb, DoorDash, outside of our enterprise tech but still notable. Palantir, JFrog, number of others. UiPath just filed confidentially and their CEO said, "Over the next 12 to 18 months, I would think Automation Anywhere is going to follow suit at some point." Hashicorp was a company we called out in our 2020 predictions as one to watch along with Snowflake and some others, and, Erik, we've seen some real shifts in observability. The ELK Stack gaining prominence with Elastic, ChaosSearch just raised 40 million, and everybody's going after 5G. Lots of M&A opportunities. What are your thoughts? >> I think if we're going to make this a prediction show, I'm going to say that was a great year, but we're going to even have a better year next year. There is a lot of cash on the balance sheet. There are low interest rates. There is a lot of spending momentum in enterprise IT. The three of those set up for a perfect storm of more liquidity events, whether it be continued IPOs, whether it could be M&A, I do expect that to continue. You mentioned a lot of the names. I think you're 100% right. Another one I would throw out there in that observability space, is it's Grafana along with the ELK Stack is really making changes to some of the pure plays in that area. I've been pretty vocal about how I thought Splunk was having some problems. They've already made three acquisitions. They are trying really hard to get back up and keep that growth trajectory and be the great company they always have been, so I think the observability area is certainly one. We have a lot of names in that space that could be taken out. The other one that wasn't mentioned, however, that I'd like to mention is more in the CDN area. Akamai being the grandfather there, and we'll get into it a little bit too, but CloudFlare has a huge market cap, Fastly running a little bit behind that, and then there's Limelight, and there's a few startups in that space and the CDN is really changing. It's not about content delivery as much as it is about edge compute these days, and they would be a real easy takeout for one of these large market cap names that need to get into that spot. >> That's a great call. All right, let's bring up number six, and this is one that's near and dear to my heart. It's more of a longer-term prediction and that prediction is in the 2020s, 75% of large organizations are going to re-architect their big data platforms, and the premise here is we're seeing a rapid shift to cloud database and cross-cloud data sharing and automated governance. And the prediction is that because big data platforms are fundamentally flawed and are not going to be corrected by incremental improvements in data lakes and data warehouses and data hubs, we're going to see a shift toward a domain-centric ownership of the data pipeline where data teams are going to be organized around data product or data service builders and embedded into lines of business. And in this scenario, the technology details and complexity will become abstracted. You've got hyper-specialized data teams today. They serve multiple business owners. There's no domain context. Different data agendas. Those, we think, are going to be subsumed within the business lines, and in the future, the primary metric is going to shift from the cost and the quality of the big data platform outputs to the time it takes to go from idea to revenue generation, and this change is going to take four to five years to coalesce, but it's going to begin in earnest in 2021. Erik, anything you'd add to this? >> I'm going to let you kind of own that one 'cause I completely agree, and for all the listeners out there, that was Dave's original thought and I think it's fantastic and I want to get behind it. One of the things I will say to support that is big data analytics, which is what people are calling it because they got over the hype of machine learning, they're sick of vendors saying machine learning, and I'm hearing more and more people just talk about it as we need big data analytics, we need 'em at the edge, we need 'em faster, we need 'em in real time. That's happening, and what we're seeing more is this is happening with vendor-agnostic tools. This isn't just AWS-aligned. This isn't just GCP-aligned or Azure-aligned. The winners are the Snowflakes. The winners are the Databricks. The winners are the ones that are allowing this interoperability, the portability, which fully supports what you're saying. And then the only other comment I would make, which I really like about your prediction, is about the lines of business owning it 'cause I think this is even bigger. Right now, we track IT spending through the CIO, through the CTO, through IT in general. IT spending is actually becoming more diversified. IT spending is coming under the purview of marketing, it's coming under the purview of sales, so we're seeing more and more IT spending, but it's happening with the business user or the business lines and obviously data first, so I think you're 100% right. >> Yeah, and if you think about it, we've contextualized our operational systems, whether it's the CRM or the supply chain, the logistics, the business lines own their respective data. It's not true for the analytics systems, and we talked about Snowflake and Databricks. I actually see these two companies who were sort of birds of a feather in the early days together, applying Databricks machine learning on top of Snowflake, I actually see them going in diverging places. I see Databricks trying to improve on the data lake. I see Snowflake trying to reinvent the concept of data warehouse to this global mesh, and it's going to be really interesting to see how that shakes out. The data behind Snowflake, obviously very, very exciting. >> Yeah, it's just, real quickly to add on that if we have time, Dave. >> Yeah, sure. >> We all know the valuation of Snowflake, one of the most incredible IPOs I've seen in a long time. The data still supports it. It still supports that growth. Unfortunately for Databricks, their IPO has been a little bit more volatile. If you look at their stock chart every time they report, it's got a little bit of a roller coaster ride going on, and our most recent data for Databricks is actually decelerating, so again, I'm going to use the caveat that we only have about 950 survey responses in. We'll probably get that up to 1,300 or so, so it's not done yet, but right now we are putting Databricks into a category where we're seeing it decelerate a little bit, which is surprising for a company that's just right out of the gate. >> Well, it's interesting because I do see Databricks as more incremental on data lakes and I see Snowflake as more transformative, so at least from a vision standpoint, we'll see if they can execute on that. All right, number seven, let's bring up number seven. This is talking about the cloud, hybrid cloud, multi-cloud. The battle to define hybrid and multi-cloud is going to escalate in 2021. It's already started and it's going to create bifurcated CIO strategies. And, Erik, spending data clearly shows that cloud is continuing its steady margin share gains relative to on-prem, but the definitions of the cloud, they're shifting. Just a couple of years ago, AWS, they never talk about hybrid, just like they don't talk about multi-cloud today, yet AWS continues now to push into on-prem. They treat on-prem as just another node at the edge and they continue to win in the marketplace despite their slower growth rates. Still, they're so large now. 45 billion or so this year. The data is mixed. This ETR data shows that just under 50% of buyers are consolidating workloads, and then a similar, in the cloud workloads, and a similar percentage of customers are spreading evenly across clouds, so really interesting dynamic there. Erik, how do you see it shaking out? >> Yeah, the data is interesting here, and I would actually state that overall spend on the cloud is actually flat from last year, so we're not seeing a huge increase in spend, and coupled with that, we're seeing that the overall market share, which means the amount of responses within our survey, is increasing, certainly increasing. So cloud usage is increasing, but it's happening over an even spectrum. There's no clear winner of that market share increase. So they really, according to our data, the multi-cloud approach is happening and not one particular winner over another. That's just from the data perspective that various do point on AWS. Let's be honest, when they first started, they wanted all the data. They just want to take it from on-prem, put it in their data center. They wanted all of it. They never were interested in actually having interoperability. Then you look at an approach like Google. Google was always about the technology, but not necessarily about the enterprise customer. They come out with Anthos which is allowing you to have interoperability in more cloud. They're not nearly as big, but their growth rate is much higher. Law of numbers, of course. But it really is interesting to see how these cloud players are going to approach this because multi-cloud is happening whether they like it or not. >> Well, I'm glad you brought up multi-cloud in a context of what the data's showing 'cause I would agree we're, and particularly two areas that I would call out in ETR data, VMware Cloud on AWS as well as VM Cloud Foundation are showing real momentum and also OpenStack from Red Hat is showing real progress here and they're making moves. They're putting great solutions inside of AWS, doing some stuff on bare metal, and it's interesting to see. VMware, basically it's the VMware stack. They want to put that everywhere. Whereas Red Hat, similarly, but Red Hat has the developer angle. They're trying to infuse Red Hat in throughout everybody's stack, and so I think Red Hat is going to be really interesting to, especially to the extent that IBM keeps them, sort of lets them do their own thing and doesn't kind of pollute them. So, so far so good there. >> Yeah, I agree with that. I think you brought up the good point about it being developer-friendly. It's a real option as people start kicking a little bit more of new, different developer ways and containers are growing, growing more. They're not testing anymore, but they're real workloads. It is a stack that you could really use. Now, what I would say to caveat that though is I'm not seeing any net new business go to IBM Red Hat. If you were already aligned with that, then yes, you got to love these new tools they're giving you to play with, but I don't see anyone moving to them that wasn't already net new there and I would say the same thing with VMware. Listen, they have a great entrenched base. The longer they can kick that can down the road, that's fantastic, but I don't see net new customers coming onto VMware because of their alignment with AWS. >> Great, thank you for that. That's a good nuance. Number eight, cloud, containers, AI and ML and automation are going to lead 2021 spending velocity, so really is those are the kind of the big four, cloud, containers, AI, automation, And, Erik, this next one's a bit nuanced and it supports our first prediction of a rebound in tech spending next year. We're seeing cloud, containers, AI and automation, in the form of RPA especially, as the areas with the highest net scores or spending momentum, but we put an asterisk around the cloud because you can see in this inserted graphic, which again is preliminary 'cause the survey's still out in the field and it's just a little tidbit here, but cloud is not only above that 40% line of net score, but it has one of the higher sector market shares. Now, as you said, earlier you made a comment that you're not necessarily seeing the kind of growth that you saw before, but it's from a very, very large base. Virtually every sector in the ETR dataset with the exception of outsourcing and IT consulting is seeing meaningful upward spending momentum, and even those two, we're seeing some positive signs. So again, with what we talked about before, with the freezing of the IT projects starting to thaw, things are looking much, much better for 2021. >> I'd agree with that. I'm going to make two quick comments on that, one on the machine learning automation. Without a doubt, that's where we're seeing a lot of the increase right now, and I've had a multiple number of people reach out or in my interviews say to me, "This is very simple. These projects were slated to happen in 2020 and they got paused. It's as simple as that. The business needs to have more machine learning, big data analytics, and it needs to have more automation. This has just been paused and now it's coming back and it's coming back rapidly." Another comment, I'm actually going to post an article on LinkedIn as soon as we're done here. I did an interview with the lead technology director, automation director from Disney, and this guy obviously has a big budget and he was basically saying UiPath and Automation Anywhere dominate RPA, and that on top of it, the COVID crisis greatly accelerated automation, greatly accelerated it because it had to happen, we needed to find a way to get rid of these mundane tasks, we had to put them into real workloads. And another aspect you don't think about, a lot of times with automation, there's people, employees that really have friction. They don't want to adopt it. That went away. So COVID really pushed automation, so we're going to see that happening in machine learning and automation without a doubt. And now for a fun prediction real quick. You brought up the IT outsourcing and consulting. This might be a little bit more out there, the dark horse, but based on our data and what we're seeing and the COVID information about, you said about new projects being unwrapped, new hiring happening, we really do believe that this might be the bottom on IT outsourcing and consulting. >> Great, thank you for that, and then that brings us to number nine here. The automation mandate is accelerating and it will continue to accelerate in 2021. Now, you may say, "Okay, well, this is a lay-up," but not necessarily. UiPath and Automation Anywhere go public and Microsoft remains a threat. Look, UiPath, I've said UiPath and Automation Anywhere, if they were ready to go public, they probably would have already this year, so I think they're still trying to get their proverbial act together, so this is not necessarily a lay-up for them from an operational standpoint. They probably got some things to still clean up, but I think they're going to really try to go for it. If the markets stay positive and tech spending continues to go forward, I think we can see that. And I would say this, automation is going mainstream. The benefits of taking simple RPA tools to automate mundane tasks with software bots, it's both awakened organizations to the possibilities of automation, and combined with COVID, it's caused them to get serious about automation. And we think 2021, we're going to see organizations go beyond implementing point tools, they're going to use the pandemic to restructure their entire business. Erik, how do you see it, and what are the big players like Microsoft that have entered the market? What kind of impact do you see them having? >> Yeah, completely agree with you. This is a year where we go from small workloads into real deployment, and those two are the leader. In our data, UiPath by far the clear leader. We are seeing a lot of adoptions on Automation Anywhere, so they're getting some market sentiment. People are realizing, starting to actually adopt them. And by far, the number one is Microsoft Power Automate. Now, again, we have to be careful because we know Microsoft is entrenched everywhere. We know that they are good at bundling, so if I'm in charge of automation for my enterprise and I'm already a Microsoft customer, I'm going to use it. That doesn't mean it's the best tool to use for the right job. From what I've heard from people, each of these have a certain area where they are better. Some can get more in depth and do heavier lifting. Some are better at doing a lot of projects at once but not in depth, so we're going to see this play out. Right now, according to our data, UiPath is still number one, Automation Anywhere is number two, and Microsoft just by default of being entrenched in all of these enterprises has a lot of market share or mind share. >> And I also want to do a shout out to, or a call out, not really a shout out, but a call out to Pegasystems. We put them in the RPA category. They're covered in the ETR taxonomy. I don't consider them an RPA vendor. They're a business process vendor. They've been around for a long, long time. They've had a great year, done very, very well. The stock has done well. Their spending momentum, the early signs in the latest survey are just becoming, starting to moderate a little bit, but I like what they've done. They're not trying to take UiPath and Automation Anywhere head-on, and so I think there's some possibilities there. You've also got IBM who went to the market, SAP, Infor, and everybody's going to hop on the bandwagon here who's a software player. >> I completely agree, but I do think there's a very strong line in the sand between RPA and business process. I don't know if they're going to be able to make that transition. Now, business process also tends to be extremely costly. RPA came into this with trying to be, prove their ROI, trying to say, "Yeah, we're going to cost a little bit of money, but we're going to make it back." Business process has always been, at least the legacies, the ones you're mentioning, the Pega, the IBMs, really expensive. So again, I'm going to allude to that article I'm about to post. This particular person who's a lead tech automation for a very large company said, "Not only are UiPath and AA dominating RPA, but they're likely going to evolve to take over the business process space as well." So if they are proving what they can do, he's saying there's no real reason they can't turn around and take what Appian's doing, what IBM's doing and what Pega's doing. That's just one man's opinion. Our data is not actually tracking it in that space, so we can't back that, but I did think it was an interesting comment for and an interesting opportunity for UiPath and Automation Anywhere. >> Yeah, it's always great to hear directly from the mouths of the practitioners. All right, brings us to number 10 here. 5G rollouts are going to push new edge IoT workloads and necessitate new system architectures. AI and real-time inferencing, we think, require new thinking, particularly around processor and system design, and the focus is increasingly going to be on efficiency and at much, much lower costs versus what we've known for decades as general purpose workloads accommodating a lot of different use cases. You're seeing alternative processors like Nvidia, certainly the ARM acquisition. You've got companies hitting the market like Fungible with DPAs, and they're dominating these new workloads in the coming decade, we think, and they continue to demonstrate superior price performance metrics. And over the next five years they're going to find their way, we think, into mainstream enterprise workloads and put continued pressure on Intel general purpose microprocessors. Erik, look, we've seen cloud players. They're diversifying their processor suppliers. They're developing their own in-house silicon. This is a multi-year trend that's going to show meaningful progress next year, certainly if you measure it in terms of innovations, announcements and new use cases and funding and M&A activity. Your thoughts? >> Yeah, there's a lot there and I think you're right. It's a big trend that's going to have a wide implication, but right now, it's there's no doubt that the supply and demand is out of whack. You and I might be the only people around who still remember the great chip famine in 1999, but it seems to be happening again and some of that is due to just overwhelming demand, like you mentioned. Things like IoT. Things like 5G. Just the increased power of handheld devices. The remote from work home. All of this is creating a perfect storm, but it also has to do with some of the chip makers themselves kind of misfired, and you probably know the space better than me, so I'll leave you for that on that one. But I also want to talk a little bit, just another aspect of this 5G rollout, in my opinion, is we have to get closer to the edge, we have to get closer to the end consumer, and I do believe the CDN players have an area to play in this. And maybe we can leave that as there and we could do this some other time, but I do believe the CDN players are no longer about content delivery and they're really about edge compute. So as we see IoT and 5G roll out, it's going to have huge implications on the chip supply. No doubt. It's also could have really huge implications for the CDN network. >> All right, there you have it, folks. Erik, it's great working with you. It's been awesome this year. I hope we can do more in 2021. Really been a pleasure. >> Always. Have a great holiday, everybody. Stay safe. >> Yeah, you too. Okay, so look, that's our prediction for 2021 and the coming decade. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis podcast. You'll find it. We publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com, and you got to check out etr.plus. It's where all the survey action is. Definitely subscribe to their services if you haven't already. You can DM me @dvellante or email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. This is Dave Vellante for Erik Bradley for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, everyone. Be well and we'll see you next time. (relaxing music)

>> Narrator: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE covering Microsoft Ignite. Brought to you by Cohesity. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite. We are wrapping up a three, the first day of a three-day show. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host Stu Miniman. We are joined by Scott Lowe. He is the CEO of ActualTech Media. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having us. >> And also David Davis, director of events at ActualTech Media. Thank you so much for coming on. >> Thank you. >> So, you are a former CIO that started ActualTech Media in 2012, tell our viewers, a little bit about Actual, what was the vision and what did you set out to create? What kind of content were you setting out to create? >> You know what we started and what we have today are actually very, very different things. We started off to create sort of an empire of websites that provide content to people. What we do now is we're helping connect enterprise IT vendors with buyers, that's really what we've settled on over the years. We've found our path about six years ago, five years ago, and we've been executing on that ever since. And that's our mission, is to help buyers find the right enterprise IT solutions. >> So how do you do that? I mean, what's the lead generation that it takes? >> Sure. I mean we basically for our clients who are companies including Cohesity and companies like it, we do event series we call MegaCast, EcoCast, virtual summits, webinars, things like that. We have a significant audience that we draw from to drive those events. And we also created our own content series, we call Gorilla Guide, which is a series of books to help educate IT buyers about solutions on the market about different technologies and try to help them understand the lay of an ever-evolving landscape that seems to be changing faster than it ever has before. >> Yeah, and actually one of the reasons I invited the two of you is, you both have deep background in this environment. Scott, before the Gorilla Guides, you wrote big books about Microsoft, and David, you've been training people on this ever environment but the pace is faster. You're talking about it's changing all the time. So I'd love for both of you, just here 2019 Microsoft Ignite, first impressions, how you think of Microsoft in the ecosystem. David, let's start with you. >> I mean, it's my third Microsoft Ignite and every time I come here I'm really blown away by kind of the scope of the show compared to the typical infrastructure shows that I go to. Those shows are more you know, the plumbing of the data center. This show is the keynote, is like using AI and ML to cure cancer and provide food for the world and it's just, like, really empowering and exciting and I find it very personally exciting. And Microsoft Azure just seems to be on a breakneck pace to catch up with AWS and Office 365 and all these innovations they keep coming out with, have been really impressive so I've been excited about the show, what about you Scott? >> Same, I mean, I think that when we talk about other shows, we are really looking at plumbing. That's a good word. When we're here we're looking at real solutions that are helping solve big problems. And because Microsoft has such a wide ecosystem from which to, in which it participates, from productivity and enterprise to driving quantum computing, to artificial intelligence to help tractors talk to the internet. I mean just, it does everything and it does it increasingly well. Microsoft hasn't always been thought of as the most innovative company in the world but I think in the last few years we've seen a different Microsoft and I think that has a lot to do with Satya, and the leadership change but it also has to do with just a renewed vision for what the future looks like in the terms of IT. >> And what does that future look like? I mean it is interesting because Microsoft is a middle-aged company compared to all these young upstarts that really, that much more DNA of innovation, of course Microsoft has innovation in its DNA but how would you describe what is driving the change at Microsoft? This is not your father's Microsoft. >> Honestly, the Microsoft we see today and the Microsoft we saw 10 years ago are not the same company. This is, I feel like Microsoft is almost a startup again. And I think if you look at Microsoft as a company, it has its hands in so much that each individual silo is almost a startup feel in the way it's brought to market. Let's just look at Azure. I mean, Azure has been playing catch up in a lot of ways to AWS for a lot of years just like a lot of smaller companies are playing catch up to some of their bigger cousins in the market. But Azure has proven itself, it's still not quite as capable as its bigger, you know, its bigger sibling AWS but it's more capable than GCP for example. But as Microsoft continues to iterate that service, it gets ever more capable, it gets ever deeper into the organization and I think it's something that I see that across Microsoft and everything that it's doing. It's not just Azure that's like this. It's like this with, you know, we've been looking at Windows virtual desktops. That's not all that sexy and exciting on the surface, no pun intended on surface, sorry. But it's something that the world needs at this point. And how we're trying to handle computing in the enterprise as we move into 2020. >> There's so much, you know, there's a few shows I go to every year where you just drink from the fire hose when you go to the keynote. This absolutely is one. Amazon absolutely is one where you come through in the breath and depth of what they offer. So we've spent a lot time saying something like Azure Arc, it is early. And still trying to understand exactly where that fits, by the end of the day, I'm like, wait, it's management but actually it's highly tied to the application, which really is the strength of Microsoft if you talk about what Microsoft knows. Microsoft knows your apps, you're running so many of those apps, not just Office but SQL and some of the various pieces. I'd love to hear what, give me one or two things that jumped out at you either that you want to dig into or that you've been saying "Oh I've been waiting for that." >> I mean I was really impressed with the technical keynote where they talked about Azure Stack Edge and they have this mini server that can be ruggedized or even put in a backpack, and he had the demo going with the server, a person sitting next to him using the server and he said "It has battery power," so he pulled the power plug on it and it kept working and then he said "And it's rugged," and he just dropped it on the ground and it bounced on the ground and he said "See, the demo just keeps on running." So I was like okay, that's cool, that's pretty impressive. >> Yeah we actually had the HPE, an HPE representative on the program. They're super excited to have their gear in the keynote and those of us with a hardware background do like to wrap our arms around some sheet metal every once in a while and touch this thing, software might be eating the world. >> We call you server huggers too. >> Exactly, am I an Edge hugger now? >> I guess you probably are. >> Yeah it's free shruggs. >> When it comes to, in my opinion, Arc and Edge, I'm sorry, Azure Stack, I think it shows some incredible opportunity for Microsoft moving forward. I mean Microsoft has a formidable presence in the enterprise and not just the enterprise, from the SMB to the mid-market to the enterprise. Everybody, almost, has something Microsoft. So there's an opportunity for Microsoft to further that incursion into the enterprise that can help them be a driver for Azure. Because when you think about a lot of the challenges people have with cloud it's around adoption and integration. That's not quite a soft problem but close enough when you start thinking about the myriad of technologies that Microsoft is bringing out. >> Yeah, so Scott I think your background, you worked in some of the commercial markets, you talk about the education space, areas where Microsoft had a strong history. Are they still as prominent today as they might've been back in the days when you were a CIO? >> Yes and no, it depends on the organization. If I look K12, I think Google's had a lot of inroads there because of Google Apps for Education, whether that's good or bad is really a different opinion but I think Google's taken a lot of Microsoft's market share there. And higher education, we still see a lot of Google colleges and universities of course, but we see a lot with O365. And a lot of that is because of the pricing which you can't beat free. But it also has to do with the capability that the Stack brings to bare. So I think that Microsoft is playing differently than they used to, not necessarily, probably a little bit more strongly in some ways and weaker in others. >> Another, I'd love to hear you say, think about is, the Microsoft of old I think of as rather proprietary and you will do all Microsoft. We had one of the Microsoft partner executives on the program today and he was talking about embracing VMware, embracing Red Hat, not something that you would've thought of Microsoft in the past. How do you think of Microsoft just as a trusted partner in the ecosystem today? >> Yeah, you bring up that word trust and in fact we were talking about that at lunch, Microsoft, we feel like has so much more trust when it comes to our data, when it comes to our applications. I mean there's another cloud provider that starts with a G that's well-known for selling data, selling data that they own, you know. And he talked about in the keynote today, we protect your data and the security around your data and I feel like trust is going to be a big factor in the future when people think about which cloud should I trust? Microsoft seems like they have a leg up on some other competitors. >> I may be naive but I actually trust Microsoft and I have for a long time. There's other companies I don't trust. And Microsoft I actually do trust because for Microsoft, our data is not their resource to mine. They're using it to give me things but they're not using it to sell things to other people. Does that make sense? I mean, that is we're not the product of Microsoft. And it might be a little more expensive because of that in some ways but I think it provides that layer of trust that you're not necessarily going to get from other providers in the near term. >> So we're nearing the end of 2019, what is on deck for IT pros in 2020? I'll start with you, I want to hear both your impressions but I'll start with you. >> That's a great question, we're actually doing a big event this week. In fact and that's the topic is the pillars of IT for 2020. >> I might've done some research. >> Yeah, yeah. So I mean, in fact, I was at a local user group recently and I was asking IT professionals that very question. You know, where are you going to spend your budget in 2020? What are you going to re-architect? And there was a lot of answers around security. That was I think probably the most popular one that I heard. Automation, some people were interested in that and improving the efficiency of their infrastructure I think overall. No matter how they do it, hyperconvergence or something like that, just overall improving things to make their life easier. >> For me, I look at the role of the CIO and to look into 2020, I think we see a lot legacy challenges that are still not solved. Some new opportunities is probably a good word. Some of the legacy challenges are what's the role of IT? That's the age old question. I think we saw the next phase of IT business align with digital transformation and now we're going to look for what's next, right? 'Cause that phrase is now going out of style. But we're still looking for ways that we can do more with technology than we ever have. And as I look at some of the things that happened at the show this morning that were announced, I see a lot opportunity for CIOs and for organizations as a whole to do more than they ever have before without having to bring a whole lot more complexity to the organization. But I also think to see some of the things that have to be addressed. Security is a board level issue and it's a top issue for the CIO, it's a make or break your career type issue at this point. And I think going into 2020 as we look at some of these technologies, it becomes even more important because it's going to all require new focus on security. We have an opportunity around to actually solve the data analytics problem at some point here in the near future. That hasn't always been possible and now we have the tools to do it. And we have tools that can do it without having to hire a whole bunch of IT experts through some of things like companies like Microsoft can bring into market. >> Would love to get your viewpoint on the future of work. We've been saying what is the role of IT? And we say in its best light, IT helps drive innovation and actually can be a leader inside the business. But we know that the roles have been changing inside a company. Microsoft talks rather aspirationally about citizen developers, and we're going to empower everyone to be their best out there. But what does that mean to the person that has been a Cis Admin or going through certifications or trying to learn the latest on hyperconvergence infrastructure and Kubernetes and the latest buzzword that they heard of? >> I mean, I think that's exciting, especially for people who are new in IT or people who have the time to invest in learning development, they were talking about power apps in the keynote. I was excited, I wanted to try it for myself, it looks fun and easy. But in reality, in the real world of IT organizations, things take time. I mean I talked to a CIO at a large bank and he said "Hey, I have 10 stand administrators "and we're going to move to hyperconvergence "when they die or retire." So things take time, that's my take, Scott. >> For me, I think it's the enabling new ways to work. If you look at ActualTech Media, we're 100% virtual. We don't have, people ask where we're headquartered, we have a PO box in North Charleston, South Carolina and the rest of us work in Microsoft Teams. For me one of the most exciting things I've looked at in the last year is Teams. I absolutely adore the tool. >> I've heard a couple of people talking about you know people thought Teams was dying and Slack was killing it but Teams is really good. What is it about it that drives your business? >> So we used to use Slack, we used Skype, and then we used Slack. And Slack was good for what it was, it's an instant messaging tool that makes sure that you can get in touch with people right away and you can share a file. What it lacks is context. Once something is scrolled off the screen, that's it, you don't ever look at it again. And what we get with Teams is an ability to provide context for the work we do. So we were working on one of our Gorilla Guide books this week collaboratively inside Teams. We had the document open in one window and we were chatting about it in a chat in Teams in the other window. But the document lived in the same channel that we were having the conversation. So enabled a great degree of collaboration that we just couldn't get with Slack. That's not to say Slack's not a great tool, for what it is, it's a great tool and I still use it for other teams, which sounds weird. But I love the ability that we've had to bring additional tools into Teams that we didn't have before. When we bought, when we bought, when we deployed Teams, we got rid of Slack, we got rid of Smartsheet and we're in the process of getting rid of Dropbox. And it wasn't 'cause we wanted to save money, I mean it's nice, but at the end of the day it's about improving workflows especially when you don't live in the same office. You don't get to talk to each other over the water cooler. >> So particularly for distributed virtual teams, Microsoft Teams. >> It's a beautiful thing >> It's a beautiful thing. >> And also even with clients, now that Teams has guest capability, we have guest teams that we work on, work with clients in the same way we work internally. So it's become a central hub for just about everything we do. Literally Teams is open on my laptop and on my phone 24/7. It's an app that never closes. >> That's a powerful endorsement. >> It is. >> Scott, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE, David thank you so much. >> Thank you for having us. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman, we will see you tomorrow for more of theCUBE's live coverage from Microsoft Ignite.

>>Live from Seattle, Washington. It's the cube covering Smartsheet engage 2019 brought to you by Smartsheet. >>Welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of Smartsheet engaged here in Seattle, Washington. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, coasting alongside Jeff Frick. We are joined by Mark Mader. He is the CEO of Smartsheet. Thank you so much for coming on the show. So great job up there on the keynote a bit. We know this is the third annual conference, uh, 4,000 people from 39 different countries. The theme is achieved more and the theme is actually tied to a very special announcement you you've made today about the, about the achieved as one Alliance. So can you tell our viewers a little bit about that? >>Yeah. The cheapest one Alliance is really figuring out how to take the cultural changes that are in flight right now and marrying those with the people and the technology. And we think that it's important as things like concepts that are intimidating people, AI and ML worker replacement. It's like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. These are things where we actually think technology and people should work together as opposed to being a replacement for. And I think there's a lot of education that needs to take place. So we plan on doing is doing research through this Alliance and then publishing that work. Cause I think a huge part of this is educating the market and giving them confidence to take that step. It's a different way to treat people. We're in this weird spot where where there's super low unemployment and yet so many things are services and a lot of your assets walk out the door every single night. >>You hope they come back the next day. So you're trying to give them meaning. You're trying to do more than just kind of the core function of the business. He had a great hackathon, uh, yesterday for good. So it's a really challenging people, challenging time for employers to keep the workforce engaged and you're really trying to help them kind of move some of the roadblocks and made it easier for them to keep those folks engaged. It is Jeff. And what we're seeing is, and you see the studies come out where there's never been a higher percentage of people who feel disconnected from their work. And I don't think that's just giving them good tooling. They actually want to know who is being benefited ultimately, what's the endpoint benefit. And if they can somehow feel connected to something purposeful, that is a mechanism for feeling connected to work. So we want our team, we want our customers showing up to their offices every day or organizations feeling motivated. And I think absent that human dimension, absent knowing who you're helping, I think it makes it feel a bit hollow. So that's one of things about engagement brings this together and you see it firsthand. Very invigorating. >>So talk a little bit about the customers that you had up on the main stage telling their Smartsheet stories. And what are the ones that you find most inspiring and, and most sort of life affirming to you as the CEO of this company? >>Well, the thing that that never gets old for me, Rebecca, is when somebody felt something one day was completely unattainable and then they have that unlocked moment like Holy smokes. I pulled it off and it was even more exciting is when they pull that off with very few resources. They didn't have to go to it at every turn. They didn't have to mobilize on a big budget ask. They just got it done. So one of the real memorable moments from me this year was when I visited Syngenta out in North Carolina and I spoke with the head of health and safety and she said we mobilized on Smartsheet. We enabled all of our team members to submit issues, safety concerns they had. How do you simplify that process of taking a picture of a potential issue, getting into a queue, getting it responded to, they saw a 500% increase in the number of people who were saying, I think that could have use improvement. >>I think that could use improvement and a 65% faster resolution times. So she is convinced that people's lives are being materially impacted to the positive. Because of this. I mean, how can she not feel empowered? That is a pretty big, that's a pretty amazing feeling. So that's one that really stands out to me. In terms of the other customer stories that, you know, one of the things that also struck me was just how adrenaline pumping the main stage show was. Yeah. Talk a little bit about what it means to put up the customers who have these very compelling visually interesting stories from outdoor Clothiers to travel destinations, and also what it means for Smartsheet employees to be in the audience. Hearing these stories about what they're doing to help their customers. I think, I think we all want to wake up every day feeling like whatever we do matters, right? >>Whether that's individually or with your family or with your business, and when you see someone like an arc Terrix or a Spartan race or a Vulcan, which is helping do census on elephants, elephants, and preserving that species coupled right alongside it was Cisco that is protecting our networks, which are more complex than ever before and you're participating in that site. Okay. That can again back to that connectedness. Right. And I think, I think the diversity in who we serve also keeps it interesting. You never know who you're gonna serve next one day at Cisco, the next day it's agriculture, the next day it's saving elephants. That diversity keeps things fresh. >>Mark, one of the things that struck me in the keynote is is there was a story of, of this guy gets his going to fly around the world and England and plane in five days or eight days. Um, but on the, what are the test flights are a significant change. He was trying to fly to Y, there was an equipment failure and he had to divert and you know when you see the screen grabs and people working in Smartsheet, it looks super detailed. It's like a project plan and there's resources that are tied research utilization. But in this case they had to be able to flip on a dime. They had to be completely agile and I think she said that eight teams around the world, I presume where the stops are. That's a really interesting dichotomy of, of the tool that you guys are delivering to, to have the detail to be, you know, numbers focused and AI focused, but at the same time be real in the real world. Stuff doesn't always go as planned, be >>real and do it instantly. So if we have an issue with the plane, we're not going to host a summit to talk about with how to get back on track. We've got to do it now. So the thing that sets also need that example is you're talking about eight to 10 people across multiple continents who have to work right now. There is no mobilization. There is note, as I said, summit and I think being able to do meaningful things quickly, that is a fairly rare combination, right? Very often meaningful stuff is heavy, complex takes time. So again, I'm, I'm this, that constant pursuit of faster, more meaningful, more depth, more value, right? In this kind of cross silo collaboration. You, I mean that's a theme that comes up over and over again is that you need contributions from lots of people and lots of no formerly siloed departments as is maybe what they're going to be called in the future to get to resolution so that you can move forward. >>And I think the thing that we spoke to in one of the product announcements was we are so inundated with information and Rebecca, Mark, I needed faster, I need a faster yet again and saying, Holy Rebecca, I can't actually process it all. So one of the things we're trying to do is how do you also improve the context within P within which people see things? Right? So if you asked me question and I don't have to tap out to another application, I can actually see your question in the context of that work. And that's when I think we were one of the real big breakthroughs where we're releasing this, this engaged, >>I mean, when you think about the, the, the current status of, of work and you really, and you really see it, I mean, from, from where you sit, I mean, is it almost shockingly abysmal about how bad things can get at companies in terms of how many silos there are, how the, the number of communication breakdowns, uh, the way the communication breaks down because as you said, you could just be working on a different version for someone. >>Shockingly, business, because we've been doing this for years, it's like it's the norm base, the cost of doing business. So what our job is to, how do we get people to get that spark to elevate a Busick, Oh my goodness, there is a better way. And it takes a lot to change people's behavior. You can't just say, well, there's a better way they have to experience it. Right? So we're in that, in that pursuit of how do you get more people to clear that hurdle the first time? Because the norm is, it's hard. The norm is, is distributed. The norm is, I don't know what version. So that's who we're trying to unlock for folks. >>And you said in the keynote once they get that spark and then achievement becomes the new norm that that has its own momentum too. >>Yes, it's the, you know, Jeff does something amazing and I'm like I want in, it's like well Jeff doesn't have a monopoly on that and that is, that's the viral effect and it's not so much a vendor saying, Hey Jeff did something now you should be motivated. You should feel that way. Rebecca. And that's what we see at this conference. This is 4,000 people who weren't told to go to the conference. These are 4,000 people who want in. And that is a really special part of the conference for us. Shift gears a little bit on AI, artificial intelligence, machine learning. Cause we hear about >>it all the time and I think everyone now has kind of figured out that it's not, it's not going to be a company delivering AI and ML. It's really applied a I in ML within an application. When you guys look at the opportunities, especially with the data flow that you have and you know your SAS application, where do you see some of the short term wins and opportunities using AI to even better, you know, eliminate some of this redundant, painful work? >>I think part of it starts with educating people on the potential benefits of it. And then I'm an experiential learner. I think many people are. So instead of talking about the theory, demonstrate how it could help. So we've already started doing sings things like recommending to people certain things based on actions they take. It's also very important as a vendor we have made a commitment to being very clear that for more advanced types of AI, people need to opt in. So again, part of this, what's happening to my data, who's working at we that that's part of our platform, right? And when I look at the future, it's the first step I think is really how do you drive convenience improvement recommendation. How do you let someone take better advantage of the systems they're already using? And what people don't have to appreciate today is by exhibiting this behavior, by intaking information, structuring and reporting out this system. >>We'll observe a pattern and ultimately should they choose to opt in the system. We'll get to a point where we'll be able to make recommendations, recommendations and derive insights. But again, a lot of this is fairly theoretical. We're in the early innings of this, Jeff. People are just starting to figure out I can automate something. So you know, I think there's a much like people said 10 years ago, the future is now. The future is kind of showing up today and then the next phase is still a couple of years out. But it's a very exciting, it's a very exciting prospect. >>So those recommendations then can become best practices because I'd like to get it back to this, this achieve as one Alliance and sort of how you're going to take that research and educate the market and then use it to implement these new technologies and best practices of this is how we can get more done and achieve more together >>by showing examples of how AI and ML can contribute to someone's performance as opposed to you did these 10 things. The machine is taking over those 10 things like, well, what's my role in it? That's not a very exciting conversation to have. So I think by demonstrating how somebody's game can, in a sense, slow down. So if the machine can help me further inspect more deeply assess, have that next moment of insight that's contributing, not taking away. And again, we need to show examples as an industry that happening until we show it. It's sort of off or not. So I'm really excited about about helping our customers through that journey. >>Yeah, there's so much opportunity in the ed. The other one that comes up in a other times is unplanned downtime. Right. So a lot of talk always about unplanned downtime of machines, right? It's completely disruptive. You don't want to schedule maintenance, but no one really talks about unplanned downtime of people, not necessarily in the way of being sick, but being distracted by often mundane, often roads, often an anticipated task, I won't even call it work that suddenly get dumped into your lap that you have to take care of. And those really, I think huge opportunities to add some automation and get those things kind of off the plate. >>Yeah. You think about the breakthrough ideas you've had in your lives, does it happen when you're like feverously working waste? No. It's usually when there's a moment of just peace where you're able to process. That's when the breakthrough happens. So one of the things we talked about today was how also as leaders, we need to empower our teams to not just drive for more yield and throughput, take that extra benefit and actually look at the board, process the board and think about what we're going to do next. And I think, again, you need to exhibit, you need to give people the permission to work that way because we're all feeling this, this pressure to innovate. You gotta give people time to do it and do more with less too. I mean, yeah. Do you think it's realistic? Do you think leaders are going to be able to, to do that? And I think the leaders of successful companies will do that and role model that too because they can't also be worried about their own true pled as you said. Right? Right. Yeah. I mean, as Gabby, as Gabby, a reset at the end of her talk, you have to exhibit the behavior. You want others to practice. Right. So I think that was a wise, a wise statement. >>Well, I really loved the, uh, the outdoor clothing company who, you know, specifically said, we want our people out doing the things that our customers are doing, experiencing what they're experiencing and really baking that into the culture. Not just saying it, but get outside and go run around, uh, and, and do what we want our customers to do and what our customers do. Do very different approach. >>It is. It is. I think, again, back to back to us understanding what our customers are doing. This is equivalent to our super bowl every year, right? We get 4,000 these people coming in here and there is no substitute for that in the flesh interaction and that's again one of the reasons why it's everyone's such a positive engaged mood right now. So they're not only interacting with the Smartsheet folks, but they're interacting with each other and learned how each company uses Smartsheet. Yeah, I mean when you think that one half of all collaboration that takes place on our platform is cross company. It's not a surprise that people interact with one another. Here it is. It is happening. We have companies who interact with hundreds of brands outside of their own, so we serve as that cross connect for companies and that's the modern company. I don't know of a company that is completely insular, so if you can help promote that safely, that's a, that's a, that's a real advantage for a company. >>Yeah. Wrapping up. What do you, what do you think you're going to be the themes for next year's conference? What is, what are sort of what's on your plate? What are you thinking about? What are the big challenges that you're knowing on right now? Yeah, I think the, I think the continued shift from efficiency to effectiveness. People. I think most people are still measured on the output goal. How many units did I do, how many sales and and while that may serve you well in the quarter and the next quarter, it does not prepare you for years two and three so you have to be very committed to the investments today. That may not pay off in that six to 12 month window. You have to, and I think stories will come out as people are learning new ways to work of examples of here's what we did in 2019 which ended up being a home run in 2021 so it's back to effectiveness, effectiveness versus efficiency. That is going to be, I think one of the themes we speak to next year. Thanks Mark. A pleasure having you on the show. I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff Frick. Stay tuned. Have more of the cubes live coverage of Smartsheet. Engage.

>>Live from Seattle, Washington. It's the cube covering Smartsheet engage 2019 brought to you by Smartsheet. >>Welcome back everyone to Seattle, Washington. We are here at Smartsheet engaged 2019 I'm your host, Rebecca Knight along with my cohost Jeff Frick. You're watching the cube. We are here with a cube alum, a cube veteran, Dion Hinchcliffe, VP and principal analyst at constellation research at at Washington DC. Thank you so much for returning to the cube. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. So we're here to talk with you about the future of work, which is a huge topic but a fascinating one. I want you to start by giving sort of a broad brush of what you see are the biggest changes right now happening in the workplace is driven by the new, the rise of digital technologies. >>Sure. I mean while it digital is infusing everything in the workplace these days, right? And so we've had the past waves of productivity tools and then mobile devices came through and then eventually augmented reality and virtual reality are going to literally change how we perceive the workplace. And then we have just everyday trends like remote working. And now people can work from anywhere, right? It's fantastic. And that's, that's really revolutionized a lot of things. There are things in 2% of the workforce per year is becoming a remote work force. Companies like ADP have a quarter of their workforce working from home, right? Accenture, same thing. They're getting rid of office space and they, they work out of their house unless there's a client site. And because you can create a, create the experience that you want. And one of the really big trends is this is this trend towards being able to shape the employee experience the way that you want to, using the tools that you prefer. >>And some people call this shadow it, other people call it innovation, right? And so that's one of the, one of the big changes. And then we have things like the gig economy, which is allowing people to build the lifestyles they want doing any kind of work they want when they want to, when they feel like it on their own terms. And that's, that's really quite exciting too. So all these, this confluence of forces all enabled them driven by technology. But it's also leading to a lot of what we call cognitive overload workers that are not lifelong learners are feeling overwhelmed by this. And that's another big challenge. >>Well, you also get this tools proliferation, which they're just not, they're just not word and, and Excel anymore. But you've got a tab open with Salesforce, you've got a tab open with Slack, you've got Gmail open, you've got docs open and you've got Smartsheet open. You might have a JIRA open. I mean, so how is that gonna sort itself out as we just kind of keep adding new tabs of apps that we have to keep up >>and we need all this technology to do better work. I mean the, these apps provide value except that it's increased in the onboarding time for workers. It's making it hard for us to train people. In some companies it's hard to retain people because they feel like they have to go to work and there's this onslaught of technologies they have to have tabs open and get their jobs done. And they do. And so we're seeing things like, you know, we're at the Smartsheet conference where, you know, how can we centralize work a little bit better, streamline it by integrating the tools and creating more focus in on what we're doing. And that's a very big trend. So my latest digital workplace trends report, we say this, we're seeing these hubs form, you know like Slack is another work hub that's become very popular inside of organizations. >>They have over 1100 application integrations that allow people to spend their time in one place and kind of work through all these other systems from one hub. So we're dealing with this complexity, you know, starting to be able to do this now, but it's early days still a big challenge. So what's a, what are you seeing now? So what's the, what is the answer then? I mean we have you just described all of these trends that are taking place that are making, making the work modern workplace so much more complex, dealing with workers who have, they're dealing with cognitive overload leaders who want more with less. What are some of the answers? What are some of the most exciting tools that you're seeing right now? We talked already about Smartsheet and Slack. We see the new digital experience platforms are emerging and low code and no code is also becoming popular. >>I'd be able to take the pieces of the applications you want and create more streamline experiences. So the CIO of Accenture, Andrew Wilson, solve his problem right away there. They're knowledge workers are just being choked by all of these tools, but yet we need the value they provide. So he began to divide up the employee experience, the 100 top moments and then he built experiences that enabled, you know, project management and onboarding and all of these key activities to be friction-free built out of their existing applications, but streamlined to just what they needed to do. And he used this as his top priority as a digital leader is to say, we've got to take as much complexity away so we can get at the values with streamlining and simplification. And we now have tools that allow that shaping to happen very quickly. It's almost reminds me of kind of the competition for Deb's right now. >>It's the competition for employees. And then we've talked a lot about the consumerization of it in mobile devices for the customer experience, but there hasn't been as much talk about leveraging that same kind of expected behavior, right? Or expected inner engagement interaction with the apps on the actual employee engagement side, which is probably as fierce of a battle as it is to get customers. Cause I think there's a lot more than 2% customers out available. But yeah, we only get 2% unemployment in the Bay area. Now it's creating effectively negative unemployment, right? Anything under 3%. So this is the challenges. Employee experience is usually low on the priority list for CEOs. They usually have analytics and cloud and cybersecurity and all these things that they have to get done that are higher priority. Yet customer experience is, is one of those priorities. But how does an employee give a good customer experience when they have a poor experience to deliver it with? Right. We're seeing you can do with talented people, is expecting to do a great job. And then give them a bunch of hard to use tools, right. Which is what's happening. So we are now finally seeing that prioritization go up a little bit because employee experience is part of delivering great customer experience and it's how you, how you create that experience to begin with. So small >>and leaders are seeing that as a priority of retaining their top people because they understand that their workers need to feel satisfied with their work life. >>Yeah. And now we have data on a lot of these things we didn't have before and I'm sure you've seen the numbers that are, most employees are disengaged at work. The majority, right between 50 and 60% depending on whose data you're looking at. That's an enormous untapped investment that workers are not performing the way that they could if they had better employee experiences. And what's disengaging is, as I mentioned, you know, giving a talented person allows you tools or allows you experience, right and expect them to do great is right. It doesn't happen. >>How much do you think AAL or excuse me, AI and machine learning will be able to offload enough of the mundane to flip the bit on how engaged they are in their job. >>Yeah, it's, it's interesting cause there's, you know, there's two sides of the coin there. Some people like a, a job that they can just kind of phone in and it's kind of rote and they can come in, they don't have to think too hard and then they can go home to their family and some people are hired on that basis. Right. Um, because that's the challenge. AI and machine learning will absolutely automate most rote work. If you look at like Adobe sensei, I was at the Adobe conference and, and they were talking about how all of these creative types, you'll have all these mundane tasks automated for them. And I could see everybody looking at each other going, I get paid to do. >>Right, right. >>So you know, it, you'll see things like robotic process automation is working. I mean, I hear anecdotes all the time from CIO is how they had, they cut like 25% out of their call center because they handed it over to the box. Right. You know, as bill processing, that's one of the, and sorting and matching bills, the invoices, it's a manual job even in today's world until very recently. So we are seeing that happen about the most rote level and it just, but it's just going to climb up from there. >>What do you see down the road though? I mean in terms of those, in terms of those employees who are raising their saying hands saying weed, I kind of want that job. I are you, are you seeing what's going to happen to those people? Are they going to have to learn new skills? Are they, are they going to be invested in by their companies? >>Well you hope so. You know, it's interesting. We see that all the big vendors now have these big education programs. Salesforce has Trailhead. SAP just announced open SAP where they giveaway massively open online courses. And you know, Microsoft has done this with Microsoft developers network way back in the day, trying to educate people. I mean you can get re-skilled for nothing for free now if you want to do it. But this is the challenges. Even though every technological revolution in the past, and it looks like this one too has totally changed the employment picture. Uh, uh, by and large it creates more jobs than we lose. And that looks like it's going to happen here. But the people who lose the jobs aren't the ones that tend to gain the jobs, the new jobs, right? Yeah. The, it's hard to take somebody who's, who's sorting bills and say, I need you to develop a new AI algorithms because that's where the next strategic jobs are going to be directing the AI to do all these things. Right. And so I think the short term is going to be dislocation and it's happening so fast that unless society, government, and enterprises really intervene that to upskill these folks, we are going to have a challenge. >>Well, we're in this really weird time too, in between, I mean, the classic one is long haul trucking, right? Which is perfect for autonomous vehicles, you know, to carry a lot of that freight and everyone pretty much agrees that's going to happen. At the same time, there's, there's a huge shortage of available truck drivers today. Uh, like there never has been. So as these weird, and again, it's probably not the best thing for a young kid to get into, right? Because it's not, doesn't have a lot great long. >>Right? Right. >>Well, and you know, you look at Uber and their stated direction is, is they want to get rid of all these drivers, right? They want it, they want self-driving taxis. And you know, we're getting close to where that might actually happen, right? Uh, and so the unskilled labor is going to be hit by far the worst. You have to become skilled labor in, in the digital economy. Uh, and so a big part of the future of work is going to be finding ways to, to get the skills into people's hands. You know, like Facebook and other large organizations don't even require a college degree. What they want people, the people that can deliver, they can take these things and create the, you know, the, the great products of the future. And so, you know, those everyone has to become a knowledge worker. >>And, and as Laird Hamilton said on the main stage today, it's the, it's the, the formula of learning to really understand when you're starting from a point of, wow, I don't know much about that. I bet. I guess I'd better learn about it. And then learning a lot about it along the way. We all have to be able to adapt and adopt those new, >>no, absolutely. Now the, uh, uh, and so w we see up-skilling and cross skilling becoming more transdisciplinary. So business people are becoming it folks now and it folks really business people, you know, we've had this business, it divide for a long time and cracks me up. I still go to big companies in the it departments using its own building. Right. But those days are going away. And now seeing that, you know, now as it people over on the business side that live there now. Right. You know, so we're seeing this kind of, this blending where digital is infusing everything and so you have to become digitally competent. Uh, and this is where we have to make that simpler. This is going back to the, you know, the, the, the digital workplace, the average user has had the number of applications they have to learn double or triple in the last just the last five years. Right. So it's a big challenge. >>So what should kids be majoring in today? What's your, >>Oh, a game design. Know the gaming industry is bigger than the movie by a large, large margin. Right. And, and that, that's where all the experience of these immersive experiences in virtual reality and augmented reality really come from. And then you can go into business. Right. You know, >>even sociology majors can design games. >>Yeah. It's just, you know, it's just get, like you said, it's, it's the poor tweeners right. That get bumped on the old and aren't necessarily in a position to take care of the new, yeah. I'll have to take care of. And unfortunately, uh, not a lot of great record of retraining today, but maybe that's going to have to be a much more significant investment because there just aren't the people to fill those positions, period. Right? Yeah. Well, and there's these big market places now you can build the career of your dreams. You'd go to Upwork or Gigster. I mean, these are big job markets where you can go and find work and do it from anywhere using a tablet you bought for $50 off Amazon. Right, right. You know, it just that most of you aren't even aware of that. They can do that. Right, right, right. >>So it's this fast changing world. Put a few bucks away for insurance and you've put a few bucks away in your 401k and you, yeah. You know, not just living off the cash plus a little bit to cover your costs, which unfortunately a lot of their, like the Uber drivers and the Lyft drivers are anyway, you know, they're not really banking that thing for building a, a career. Well, I've crawled to those platforms and it's interesting, entrepreneurial activities, very common in places like Asia, right? Where if, you know, they come here, they build businesses right away. Right. And they're used to that. So w and we lost some of that, but I think we were gave a economy is giving a lot of that back to us. We have to relearn it again, you know? Right. >>Well Deon, thank you so much for coming on the cube. It was a pleasure having you. Absolutely. Thanks. So Jeff. Thanks Rebecca. I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff Frick. Stay tuned to more of the cubes live coverage of NJ engaged 2019.

>> Narrator: Live from Seattle, Washington it's theCUBE covering Smartsheet ENGAGE 2019. Brought to you by Smartsheet. >> Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of Smartsheet ENGAGE here in Seattle. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Jeff Frick. We're joined by Kristin Komassa. She is the VP Process Improvement at Colliers International Wisconsin. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thanks for having me, I'm excited to be here. >> So you're here direct from Milwaukee. Tell our viewers a little bit about Colliers International Wisconsin. >> Yeah, so Colliers International Wisconsin, we are recognized as the largest full-service commercial real estate company in the state of Wisconsin. And when I say full-service it means we have everything from brokerage to property management to facilities, architecture, development. We cover the gamut on both the commercial and we've actually started a residential program, as well. So, we've got you covered. >> Excellent, so tell us now about your Smartsheet story. There was a movie that played during the keynote address where we heard a lot about your Smartsheet experience. But you tell our viewers now. >> Yeah, so I started using Smartsheet in 2012 when I came to Colliers and really it was a one specific project that we needed to really wrap our arms around and other methods weren't doing it at all. So I discovered Smartsheet. And ironically if you took Smartsheet from 2012 and put it next to Smartsheet 2019, you wouldn't think they're the same product at all. But it solved our issues at that time. We were able to really elevate what we were doing with that client. We were recognized, and the company ownership saw that if you can do this with one client, what could you do with the whole company? And over the past years we have really rolled it out both internally through the operational side, from how we just manage our day-to-day business to also how do we get in with those clients and how do we manage their real estate with this software program? So that's kind of been my journey and it's been fun and it's been amazing and I'm looking forward to the next phase. >> So what was the killer app in 2012 that you couldn't do with any other tool that was so breakthrough? >> We were starting with Excel and it was just an extremely large portfolio. We tried to do Google Sheets, that didn't work. And Smartsheet was the app of choice, that we could collaboratively work on this entire portfolio but manage it with a security level, because it was a banking institution, that they were concerned. And Smartsheet, even at that time, they knew that security was a big issue with their clients. >> So was it the ability to cross-company collaborate with the banking client as well as your own team? That was-- >> It was. It was a large team, we had 15 people, so you can imagine version control was huge. >> Nightmare. >> Yeah, a nightmare. Nobody wants to see an Excel document sent to 15 people asking for revisions. And, again, we had to be able to report to this banking customer in their own format and we had again really aggregate that data in a consistent and repeatable way, but yet still maintain that control. And Smartsheet allowed us to do that in a very flexible and customizable way. So we didn't buy something off the shelf that we'll maybe use 50% of it, we used 100% of what we purchased. >> So 2012, that's a while ago. >> A little bit. >> Can you talk about the cultural change from your company now that you use Smartsheet on a regular basis and how that has helped you collaborate and helped you be more creative with each other, helped you understand the big picture? >> Yeah, so really in 2012 we were a slightly smaller company. It was coming right out of the recession and when there was a lot of REO properties and just there was some issues in real estate in general. And we were able to really ride that wave and come back a lot stronger than we were because we were able to cross-collaborate between all of our different company divisions, and really show our clients, one of our taglines is Better Together, and that's what we were. And it's easy to be better together when you have a platform that helps you build that up. And our company has since kind of shed some of those maybe less desirable properties or product type and really moved into the class-A downtown markets because we're able to now work with some of those more sophisticated owners of real estate and those sophisticated clients that are, they're really looking for not just a real estate expert, but an advisor for them. How do you help me take my real estate and make it work for my business? And Smartsheet was a big part of that. >> It really has evolved your role. As you said, it's much more of a, you're much more of an advisor now. >> Yes, we are definitely much more of an advisor, of a consultant, of a trusted partner, is what we are. And it's not always just about real estate anymore, it's about building those relationships. But showing them as well as to, how can we put all those pieces together and then still have full transparency with you? And with our other vendors and our clients and bringing everybody together. >> So I love that you, looking at the big picture and big changes in the big picture, but you've also talked about it's a combination of lots of little things that add up to the big thing. I think one of your videos you talked about a push notice for an accept/decline was a game changer. And then today we heard in the keynote, a copy/paste from one to the other got a standing ovation. So what was your favorite feature for today? And I'm just curious, is that approach something that you've adopted also in the way that you use the tool to engage with your clients? >> Every ENGAGE that I've been to I leave and I'm just so excited to get back and start implementing everything because, again, Smartsheet really listens to their clients. But really from what the things that were announced today, it seems like a simple thing but I'm really excited about Move Row. Because when you're done with a project, it doesn't take a lot of time to actually grab it and move it down, but if somebody forgot to do it and it's rolling up to your aggregate data and all that, it's just such a little thing but it makes such a big difference. Show me only my active in-flight projects. I don't want to see my completed ones or my closed, or my on-hold, if I change the status. Give me what I care about, front and center. So Move Row wass my big thing. >> Love it. >> But that is what we've been talking about, frankly, all day, is how these little things can add up to be the big aggravations of work. And so when you are slowly chipping away at all of the annoyances, that leads to a much more pleasant work day. >> Kristin: It definitely does. >> And a much more satisfying work life. >> Yep, I'll take any second I can gain back in a day. >> Right, so we talked about how Colliers International Wisconsin has really evolved from sort of, not a small-time real estate, but now you are this trusted partner of so many wealthier clients. Talk about the internal culture, though, in terms of how you all work together. >> Yeah, so some of our key features are like we like Warrior-Spirit, and this Better Together, and being innovators. And that's really what Smartsheet has encouraged us to be, is more of these innovators and working together and really being a champion internally. You'd be amazed, a lot of real estate companies, they have a lot of brokers and then employees and maybe not everybody, there are different personality types and all that, but our company has been able to figure out a way to pull everybody together and aggregate that data for a real big picture from both sides. Instead of looking at employees versus consultants, but just everybody. What is Colliers? And it's been amazing because Smartsheet has been that platform that we've utilized to do that and to bring everybody up. The collaboration that it has encouraged between different departments. Everybody knowing what is going on with a project or knowing that if you're talking to the same client that I'm talking to and how do we now work together, versus you make a phone call and you just called my client. I don't want that happening and it makes you sound kind of silly. How do we work together for a common purpose, basically, is what's happened. >> So is it the primary work tool that's open on people's desks? >> Yes, it is. It's open on my desk 100% of the time and we have actually created individualized dashboards for every single one of our brokers and it is their ground zero where they go to for all of their information. For if they have a new listing, if they have to submit commission information, if they want to submit a referral to another one of our lines. That is where they go. Our property managers, we're working right now to create their individual dashboards where, again, they're going to be living in there, and how they're communicating with their landlords and their owners and, how do you aggregate that tenant data in there so that everybody on your team is all on the same page? But again, it's living in Smartsheet is what the entire company is doing these days. >> So you talked about how this was 2012 when you first adopted it. The real estate business particularly, and commercial real estate not in a great position, in a much better, more solid position today. What are you thinking about for the future in terms of how your industry evolves and how you're going to need tools to help you evolve? >> Yeah, our clients, it's a tech world, everything. Your fridge can order milk for you these days. If you have a real estate and they're not an advisor, they're just a real estate broker and they're not accessing the technology that is out there to help you get market intel at the touch of your fingertips. They almost want you to anticipate what their question is going to be before they ask it. And they want that data available at night, on the weekends, in the morning, at their own schedule. If you're not able to provide that but you have to send them an email and they have to wait on it, I think that you're going to fall behind. You have to be able to keep up with the world of technology and becoming less of a one, I'm just going to help you on this single transaction to I'm helping you on this one, but what's the next one? And how does it affect your business? And how do I become your partner and your advisor and just that trusted partner? And that's where it's going, I think. >> And have you been able to, are you able to do those things because it has freed up your time? Because that's another thing we hear about this technology, is that because it is automating so many of the manual, repetitive tasks, you do have more time to be creative, to think more holistically and more about the future. >> Yeah and that's really what we're pushing is, if it's an administrative task, if it's something that you can automate it, do it. Don't take another day sending a repetitive email or you checking your calendar, did somebody finish something? Have the system do it for you. Did somebody, if you assigned a task, did they do it? You shouldn't have to babysit them for it. And yes, it should free you up to, how do I look strategically? How do I look forward into something? Instead of constantly trying to look backwards as to what did we do? Has it been completed? It should be done and we should be on to the next step at this point. >> So you said that you always come away from ENGAGEs so excited, so happy to come back to your office and talk about what you've learned. What do you think it's going to be from this one? Besides Move Row? Which I know is going to change your life, Kristin. >> Move Row will change my life, but there's a lot of things. You know what, so many things. Again, Smartsheet, I can't reiterate enough, they listen to their customers. And going back and figuring out how do I optimize something that I already thought was the apex thing that I was going to create, how do I now make it better? How do I make it so that it frees up somebody else's time? So that maybe them moving a row down, they no longer have to do that. How do I now make the next one even better? So I'm just, I'm excited, again, about that continuous process improvement. >> Excellent. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a pleasure having you. >> Thank you, I'm excited to be here. >> And now you're a CUBE veteran. >> Now I'm a CUBE veteran, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff Frick, stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of ENGAGE 2019. (upbeat electronic music)

>>live from Seattle, Washington. It's the key nude covering smartsheet engaged 2019. Brought to you by Smartsheet. >>Hello, everyone. We are wrapping up one day of coverage at Smartsheet. Engage here in Seattle. I'm Rebecca Knight. Been coasting all day with Jeff Rick. It's been a pleasure sitting next to you together, and it has just been so much fun. It's a great show. >>And you've never been to Seattle before >>my time in the city? Exactly. So you've >>covered this space, Rebecca, in your in your non key black for a very long time. So first off, you know, kind of general impressions of new way to work. We hear about it every show we got to talk about new way to work. So, you know, kind of your global perspective a little bit and then, you know, kind of some takeaways from some of the conversations today. >>Well, we know that the situation is pretty bleak right now that there are the statistics are horrible just in terms of the number of employees that are really checked out, totally disengaged, would would love to quit, but they need the health insurance. And so we're already sort of starting from from a pretty low place, where in terms of people's engagement at work, and I think a lot of the things that that drive people nuts about their work. Uh, of course, is a bad boss and not a great parking spot and everything, but it's it's it's it's the little things that get in your way of doing your job. And it's it's the things that just drive you nuts about some sort of process that takes forever. And, oh, I have to keep doing this. And I just already sent you that email and how come you're looking at this other version? And it's all those impediments that really drive people crazy and that makes people stressed out and and unhappy in their jobs. So I do think that if you are a company like Smartsheet and you have you realized this and you can slowly chip away at those impediments and the aggregate aggravate aggravations that people feel, I think that's not a bad business model. I think I think they're on to something here. Don't worry, though >>sometimes is just is just additive, right? It's just another thing we talked. It's one of the interviews. And when I'm at work, I have three big monitors, each one split into two screens. I've got mail open calendar, open sales force open, slack open asana open YouTube. Twitter. Um, it's probably a couple. And then if I have to, like, look something up and and you know there's this kind of constant confusion is what it what is the screen that's open when you work? And it used to just be e mail, which is not a good solution at all. So I think if if you know, they can become the place that people do, their work right, and we talked about all the integrations like it's that integrate with slack. So maybe you know, the people that work primarily and slacker primarily there, and maybe the people in some other department are primarily on spark cheat, and somebody else is primarily on another tool. But it just seems still like keep adding, tourists were not necessarily taking a lot of them away. >>Well, that will be the job for Anna Griffin, who is the first ever cmo this company. You just started in April, and she's got her work cut out for her because you're right. There are a lot of screens. That's that does not describe my work day. But I know it describes a lot of people's work day, Um, and that that that will be. What she needs to figure out is how to be your number one You're going to the one that you rely on to get your job done. >>The part that I took away from her interview is really She talked a lot about engagement, and you just talked about engagement, an empowerment, you know, not only not only getting the obstacles out of the way, but making me feel like what I do matters, matters to me, matters to my boss, matters to my clients and matters. And then I think that does finally drive to innovation, which is the Holy Grail that everyone talks about. But it's really not that easy to execute. >>Everyone wants more innovative, of course, >>and then the last thing which she talked about, why part of the reason why she came here? His leadership. But I think the way we really can't have this conversation around engagement without talking about leadership, because it's such a critical piece to the puzzle for everyone to rally around, you know, a mission. So this is the execution details. But you also need some type of a mission that you can feel good about, as well as feeling that you can contribute to. >>Absolutely. And I think that what you were just talking about with the ownership piece and so these air these employees, as we said, they're removing the impediments to their job. But then they're also able to then focus on higher level tasks, assignments, thinking, strategy. They're able to use their brains for what they were hired for, not thinking about certain tasks and other files that are old versions. And so if they if they could do those things and then, as you said, feel like they matter, feel like that work, they matters to their boss. However, you are right in that if you got a bad boss, all bets are off. If it works, still gonna stink and you're there. There's nothing you can do about it. >>The other piece that came up, which I was interesting, is really about prioritization. What and what do you optimizing for? And my favorite part of Clayton Christian since Innovator's dilemma, is the conversation about that you must prioritize. You cannot engineer for everything equally, and you have to force up. That pressurization, I think, is interesting here about Smart Cheat is for all the talk about digital transformation. Most people talk about the products, and service is that they sell. They talk about the engagement with their customers. They don't talk about transforming the life of their employees and the way their employees get stepped on and the way the employees actually engage with the company through the applications. And I thought that was a really interesting and insightful take, especially in the day where everything is a service. And again your people walk out the door every night and you hope they come back the next day. So I think, you know, spinning the digital transformation story into more of an employee enable men and engagement story is pretty powerful. >>You I could not agree more because because that that is the critical piece. If you have a bunch of people coming to work every day who hate their jobs, they're not gonna be giving your customers the experience that you want their customers tohave. So it really does start with Happy workers, right? Andi, I think that I think smart. She really gets that. So that's that's what I am struck by today. >>Yeah, it's just those other ones that we're going to bring along. And Dion may have made a good point and said, You know, some people don't want to be engaged work. Some people don't want >>you >>next level things like that they like their roads in the routine gives him comfort. They come to work, they do the road in the routine and they go home. So it's gonna be interesting. Time for those peoples can reach it in time for people to not necessarily have expertise in a broad range of categories formerly siloed categories like product marketing, product management, finance sales, biz, Dev production. But you least have tohave in a kind of an inch. De Milo gave those teams. So you put together a SWAT team, if you will, to accomplish the task. And that's what I'm curious to see. Some of the 4 51 research that how how he was pointing to kind of a restructuring of the silos of teams and organizations within it within a company that We don't hear much about how that's going to restructure on kind of a dev ops, fast assembly, fast, complete kind of assemble and disassemble around projects, which is what Dev Ops says. We'll see you know how that how that impacts organizational structure. >>And I think that could be very cool and very different, particularly with different. I mean, we know that diverse groups make better decisions than lone geniuses. And so if we have a bunch of people who have different perspectives, different levels of expertise and even if it's not expertise, it's just sort of a general knowledge about a lot of different things, right. We know that if we can get those people working together on a task, it's got a lot of potential. So I think I think you're right, right. >>Last thing is that I think really interesting. Here is the is the acknowledgment of team beyond even the company walls. So you've got your core team, you know, cross departmental collaboration, and then was a mere it over and over here here today, collaboration outside the walls to external teams. And it was Mark talking about putting on these big events mean there's so many external stakeholders in place holders and vendors involved in this humongous dance that becomes our enjoyment of the Final Four event. I think that's really insightful. Kind of take that. You have to have the ability to engage, collaborate with a large group or an extended group for any particular project. And And that really changes the way you think about what the application is high share information >>and that they all have to feel ownership in the process to yes, very >>important. All right, Rebecca. Well, >>this was so much fun. I Jeff, I had a great time working with you, and we had a great team. We had Andrew in Jay and Brendan and Taylor Welcome Taylor to the to the show. It was great. I can't wait to come back and do it again. >>It will be big next time. All right, >>Thanks. That is wrapping up our coverage of engaged 2019. I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff. Rick. Thanks a lot for watching

>>Live from Seattle, Washington. It's the key nude covering smartsheet engaged 2019. Brought to you by smartsheet >>Welcome back, everyone to the cubes Live coverage of smartsheet engaged here in Seattle, Washington. I'm your host, Rebecca Night, along with my co host, Jeff Rick. We're joined by Main McCutchen. She is the program director at Oval V. Oh, thank you so much for coming on. My pleasure. So movie is a huge name in the advertising industry. But why do you give our viewers a little bit of background about what you do and and the company itself? >>One of the fun little stories that that I like to tell is something that our founder said so many years ago. If you are. If you hire people that are smaller than you, you end up with tiny people in your company, right you want you want to hire someone bigger than you, and you end up ah, company of giants and I feel like that really, like, kind of sums up will be. It's such a big name in the industry. 70 years we've been around, I'm program director. I work in operations. I also work in resource management um, I like to think that I'm utility player, you know, like wherever. Wherever the fire is, I'll go and try to help out. Smart sheets made that a lot easier for me in the last couple of years. My origin story of Smart cheat is I was working with an account and someone had to leave suddenly and they asked me to step in and do some of the account executive duties. I know it here. What? You know, some of those were I am lifelong operations. I'm not lifelong advertising, So it was like trial by fire. But I had recently been introduced to Smartsheet. So I had this tool and I went to meetings for like, two weeks, and I gathered every piece of data I could. And then after that, time, like images came out of the mist and suddenly, like the world made sense. And, um, my boss one day was walking by and saw like a pie chart. What's that like? Oh, I just made this because it's helping me learn about the account. Right? And he was like, you were making appointment with my boss and like on it went from >>there, so you should have been in operations forever. So what brought you to smart? She clearly you've worked with other tools. You've worked in complicated projects before. What was so different this time? >>I would say of the ease of use and the instant adopt ability with other people and the functionality being able to attach a file. And this is long before before they were dashboards, before any of that stuff. Just attaching a file. Um, the comments on the line really ease of use. >>That's a big one. >>So in your in your line of work, there are so many different assets that you need to work on and the way that the the advertising industry has changed so much, you only have so much time to get the customers attention. Can you talk a little bit about just those changes and then how that's changed, what you need to do and what your team needs to do on a day to day basis? >>We spent a lot of time tracking. We still spend a lot of time tracking, and customers will say You guys talk to us too much, and then they'll say we didn't get the right information. So I think I'm talking to other people here at the conference, and nobody really wants to say my company's having a difficult time grappling with, like this torrent of data that we're all living with, You know, I miss things for my kid because I missed the email in my in box about the school, even though I'm looking for it. So I think it's a large problem that a lot of companies we're dealing with and nobody really wants to admit it, admit it. But we're finding that we're changing the way we work, and it's making a big difference. Like the tools that we used to use don't apply anymore because they don't make any sense. Like, you know, if you have, like, a shared folder on a drive, Good luck. You know, with a flashlight like you're never gonna >>find so >>thes kinds of tools. Marchi is helping us. Is helping us really change the way we >>work the >>other >>thing to the complexity of which you guys deliver. You made a nice customer video for the Sparky team and really goes through on some campaign for a shoe or something, you know, you kind of got your core theme that you develop, that >>you >>guys were making so many derivative Platt the rid of assets for so many derivative platform speeds and such different ways. That kind of the variation, I assume the version control variants based on geo or whatever speed, Completely different working situation. >>Yeah, we're very excited about Slope, the asset tracking software that that smart she has purchased. And we've I think we've started a pilot, and we're really excited to see how that works out, because that's something that all of this stuff that we're building it smartsheet will then be able to talk thio this other system So the tracking system will be able to talk Thio revenue projections or whatever else you wanted to talk to, you know of capacity planning, resource management and, yes, of all all the virgins that we have to deal with, there's two pieces of the version. Ing one is like what we need to deliver to the client today. Do we have the right version? We got a ship this out. It's going to print. You don't want the wrong one going out, But then also 23 years from now, If somebody comes and says, Hey, can you give me the version that ship and everyone's like, Oh, I don't know what It's one of these. I don't know which one Because in our industry, people rotate off accounts. You work on one account for a number of years, and then you decide you want to be to be expertise or some consumer products. Good expertise in the company's very good about enriching people's careers that way, moving them around. But that means they're taking their knowledge with them. So one of my favorite things about smart cheat is not only does it help us track and there's transparency and automation and all that stuff, but when we finish a project that we've used it correctly, it's beautifully archives. So not only can you find all of the assets, even the little 80 bitty ones, but you can see a chat trail on which one was used this time, and you can. I like also, you can right click on a cell and see to sell history like who made that? No, you know who put that number in it? It's perfect. >>It's a mini handbook that you can hand over into the on ramp someone onto a new project. Like >>if you could talk to the person that was there that did it. You know it's there. The intuition that there is great. >>So what is this do in terms of changing the culture of your organization and the ways in which employees air interacting with each other? >>I'm really excited about this. I'm really excited about the culture piece because I'm gonna talk about it >>internally and >>then I'll talk about it with clients internally. If you're a business leader and you need to get your revenue projections from five markets are regions or whatever you want to call them, you need thes numbers like every month. Give me these numbers so we go down to them and we say, This is it. I need you to fill out this column and the months that's it. >>They can. Then, with smart, she do whatever they >>whatever else they want with the sheet, they can add columns like some of them track quarterly and some of them tracked by the half and some of them weekly. They can do all that as >>long as >>my numbers Aaron and and I have that report. So all >>of these cultures were slightly different. Old movie has >>a culture, but so do our clients. And >>when you work with a client closely, you >>adopt part of that culture. So I >>don't want >>to say to anybody in the company, this is how it's gonna be and this is how you have to do it. I think that kills morale. I think it kills creativity, a think it kills innovation. So that's one thing that I love about Smartsheet is. It helps you preserve culture. It helps, even like underscore it. >>And do you think it's made you as a team? Also, Maur uh, wanting to lean on each other in different ways and in the sense of wanting to be unlocked. Creativity pieces? What I'm what I'm trying to get. Creativity >>and accountability. Yes, I think it's much easier to define who's responsible for what with that clearer communication. You know, you could get a card view and you feel like that's your literally your lane. That's what it's called. It's called your Lane, so I think that helps people like I know what I'm accountable for and I know what I need to dio. And so, um, I'm gonna be better at it. I also I'm gonna have a better picture of the whole project instead of just what I'm doing. So knowing where it's coming from and where it's gonna go after and that contacts makes me better. >>And are you seeing one of the big themes for all these types of software is that, you know, it frees up people from doing less mundane, less routine, less wrote kind of your example of rolling up the numbers so that it frees you up to do higher value activities. Are you seeing that house? It manifest itself in your guy's ability to deliver >>the automation. Uh, let's see. Let's see how that >>we haven't. >>I was talking about what I said. I would get back to the client a minute ago and I didn't. We haven't >>I can't think of >>a time when we use We use automation a lot. Internally. I'm trying to think about what we do with clients. Cause client facing is obviously a little bit different, but eternally >>is probably harder challenge, though, right? It's easy to get excited about a new client. It's, I think, it's harder to get excited about another day on, you know, Week three on an eight week project that you're just >>I kind of >>love them. I don't know why I love the internal stuff. I think because of the camaraderie and because of the team building I sent out, I used a form recently. Thio. Ask some people that I've been working with how they feel about this new project, and it was so easy. I mean, it was like I had fun making the form, you know, and I'm happy to say that I'm also having fun reading the responses because they're mostly good and some of them are critical. But they it's it's it's delivered so well the comments like >>we needed to hear that we >>can actually make this better now. >>Seeing the big picture, though, I want it. I want to hear as a business leader what that means to you and in particular what it was like before when you didn't have full information and you couldn't exactly get the real time status report and understand what needed to be done and what wasn't working so well. We had >>people working off of a different sort of playbooks, right? So you have one department, and they know what they're focuses, and they know what they're doing. And another department has a different responsibility. They go to a meeting and they >>kind of >>hear different things, right, because they're thinking about what am I gonna be doing with this? And the other was thinking about how my could do and so that you can really run into problems because any of people that are on divergent paths. And so now if everyone's working off the same document, you don't have that problem anymore. It's your question, >>right? So I don't want to shift gears a little bit, name on and talk about where we are kind of society in terms of the attention economy, right? That's the hardest thing to get these days is people's attention. I think in your little video you guys talked about, you know, the number of impressions per day, which of course is infinite. And the time for impression is just basically zero plus a little bit more and you guys are right at the leading edge of trying to capture that attention. Facing that challenge is I wonder if you can just kind of speak generally is the evolution of that in the way that messaging and images and kind of types of engagement have to change when your your opportunities are very, very short. But they're spread across a lot of different things. And, you know, if it's targeted, right? Thea pertinent ese for a match on a good target, someone said, If it's a good match, it's magical on. And how you kind of look a challenge in the opportunity of operating in 2019 where attention is so hard to get, >>I think to give you a really good answer to that question, I would need someone from the media department strategy, someone from creative and someone from the CEO's office, Um, but in >>New York in two weeks, >>we oh, there's so much that goes into it and clients are so different. You know, some want this really long, long list of different deliver bols that they want and it's on a tight paste and then some or more inches like >>just like an >>overall brand. You know, we just want some brand strategy, one thing that we do well and that better that is our core is we make brands matter. That's that is the oval. Vito's right there. So no matter what's going on with the industry as it's changing and you know this week it's banners. Next week it's social or whatever. We were always focused on the brand first and whatever makes sense on that day. In that era, we will choose the platform and the software and whatever else that helps us best service our clients, >>but still staying to that core mission around the brand brand representatives. >>That is the number one thing. Yeah, >>So what's next? I mean, when you when you're here at the Smartsheet, engage and you're talking and hearing about how other companies use it and how other teams are finding new collaborations and what are you going to come away with? What are you gonna bring back to your team? And in New York, I think the >>most exciting thing for me so far has been I mean, I love the multi select drop down, and I mean, there's a lot of great things, but when they talked about a little bit of touch on a I and how the platform will be watching the way you work and I don't want to use language. People get so creeped >>out, you know, like watching it. >>What do you want? You know, it's just like, you know, following a pattern that it will suggest things. So I think that's gonna help search. And then it's going to know, like, well, every other time you ran that report, then you wanted to dash would want me to kick it off for you. I am really excited about that. I think is right now the automation is good and it's getting better, right? You have, like, you can set by time you consent reminders by by date and lots of great things that you could dio with the forms. But I think that a eyepiece is really what's gonna make a change. >>How did you say that your team feels about that? I mean, you hear that? People have so much trepidation around. Aye, aye. And the robots are coming. I don't just pretend like it's just something you don't have to dio, right? Right, right. Yeah, I did. But did they see it as the as the potential benefits that could come from it of Yes, I think a >>lot of people already in a recent project. Everyone's like the drudgery is gone. It's just gone. And sometimes I feel like one thing. I asked him, Do you feel like you're spending more >>time on this? Or >>do you feel like you're spending less time? And do you feel like you're spending more time? But you're more informed and better to do your job right? So sometimes it's boat. Sometimes some things that I spend less time now that I'm using smartsheet, >>some people spend more >>time because they're getting Maur information that they needed. You know, >>right? I love it. I love your example. How you just need that one cell filled in, and whatever it takes you, the individual to get to that number, you don't really care. >>I don't have the flexibility. >>You can organize your thoughts, your way of working your way of organizing information. Whatever makes sense for you to get to that that answer >>that flexibility is so important. And I see it every team that I give this you know, the one document. I need six numbers a month. It's only need $6 a month, and every sheet is different. And I've told them I'm like, Well, not your the admin. And you could make all these changes that you wanted to, And >>it's a little >>bit risky. You know? What if they delete one of my columns? Well, then I'll go and put it back and tell them. Don't do >>that. But, hey, everybody does it differently. Somebody took the name >>calm and put it on the end. I mean, whatever floats your boat, you know? >>Did you bring him together at some point to say, Here's how you did it here. So you did it. You know, here's best practices. Maybe. You guys, you know, Susie over here did it this way. Seems to work really well. And I want I want >>I do one on one whenever I can't. Okay. I really like it, but I I like the engagement. You get to know someone. I also say my sick file has my cell phone. You can slack May. You can call me. You can text me in middle of night. Doesn't matter. We're here like I have two clients. You know, there's there's the clients that we service in the world. The other companies But then for me, my clients are the little employees and employees that are they're servicing those clients. >>And as you said, when the drudgery is gone, that makes for people who want to come to work and who are more satisfied. So then they give more of themselves. And during the work day, and it is, it does become a there. Aren't you a circle there? Also, Maur, relax, you know, because >>I think we were alluding to this earlier. It's like before we were using smartsheet. You >>weren't >>always sure like some, like project was gonna jump out from behind a lamppost >>anyway, home at night and ruin your life for a day. You know, now >>we can see that guy from far off. I got my eye on >>you. You're >>not gonna get may. And it gives us what I call this Marchi calm, you know, like we know, like everybody knows what the schedule is from here to the end of the year. Maybe even for into 2020 and 2021. So we're starting to scope for the next year, and we're setting the smart sheets up for you like, Oh my God, there's the There's >>the view. It's beautiful, right? Right. I think we need to create a new smartsheet yoga pose, you know. Let's do it. Let's do you know what? I'm always >>on the hunt for the weirdest use of smartsheet. >>What's the weirdest you found so far? >>The weird Somebody mentioned something about a writer who uses smart cheat to track all the ways they procrastinate from writing >>Pretty good. That is. Another woman >>used it for her Thanksgiving shopping. I'm like, Okay, that's like, next level cooking. And then also on the way home from the grocery, shopping for Thanksgiving, the wines she was gonna buy. So he's tracking her wines and her food. >>That's good for the pairings. And which I like that. Yeah, >>you do like a little imagine that with your card view. Like, Oh, the mail. Well, look, we put it over the turkey or whatever >>it is you can use ice, maybe Cochin. Thank you so much for coming. My pleasure. >>Thanks for having me. >>Thank you. >>I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff. Rick, Stay tuned. You are watching the Cube

(mellow music) >> Voiceover: Live from Seattle, Washington, it's theCUBE. Covering Smartsheet ENGAGE 2019. Brought to you by Smartsheet. >> Welcome back everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of Smartsheet ENGAGE, here in Seattle. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Jeff Frick. We are joined by Dr. WandaJean Jones. She is the Digital Learning Evangelist at GE Healthcare. Thank you so much for coming on the show! >> Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. >> Well we're excited to have you. So tell our viewers a little bit about what you do as the Digital Learning Evangelist, which is a very cool title. >> As Digital Learning Evangelist, the main part of my job is to manage our digital learning ecosystem. So, we have a learning management system, we use Adobe Captivate Prime. And then the other part of my job is to teach people how to use digital tools that will help make their lives a little bit easier. Save time, automate processes, and, you know, all the way around, create efficiencies. >> And how (chuckles). Are the employees willing to go there? Or are they naturally skeptical? I mean, what would you say? I mean, introducing a new technology to employees is famously a hard thing to do. How do you find it? >> Well, I'm a teacher at heart, so what I like to do is take what they already know and build off of that. So typically, if an employee comes to me and says, "WandaJean, we really want to learn "how to manage all of these Excel spreadsheets, "there's lots of data." I tell them, you know, "Come to the meeting with your Excel spreadsheets," and then I want them to tell me the story about their process, and then I go through and match them, kind of play matchmaker, and match them to that technology that already fits within their current behavior. There's some things that they'll have to change just a little bit, but we don't want to do it so much that they find it overwhelming, and say, "Oh my gosh, I'm never going to get this." So, I want to make sure they're comfortable and, you know, listening to them talk and seeing the sophistication in their current process, I'll know how far I can go. >> Now are these kind of next-gen productivity tools that you're getting them onto? Or are these kind of new collaboration tools that the company's taken on? What are some of the things you're transitioning them off of and putting them onto? >> I think one of the things is, the best part is, most of the work that's coming to me to transform, if you will, it's very manual. So, it's knowing where the tools are, and I make sure that I am very tool promiscuous. I like to go and look at all of these tools, and I like to understand which tools do what. And then I want to understand the role of the person and what they do for the business. And how those two can come together. So it's a matchmaker. The tools are, most of the time, digital collaborative tools. So we have a full suite of all sorts of tools at GE Healthcare. So we're definitely no short of tools. But sometimes people just haven't taken that digital leap to figure out, "How do I get my process "a little more digitized and save myself some time?" >> So what kinds of things are the people on your team working through, in terms of the kinds of processes you're helping them automate, the kinds of things you're helping them do manually, and how is Smartsheet coming into play here? >> Okay. So, I like to look at things from the triple constraints: Cost, quality, and speed. So, when you think about cost, quality, and speed, you want to take cost out of the process. You want to improve the quality by, you know, creating some sort of a standardization that everybody's going to do. And then you want to speed up the process that people can bring that, whatever it is, to market. And when I look at those three levers, this is exactly what my end users want to do anyway. So Smartsheet is able to answer all of those in such a remarkable way. That's usually the top of the list, when it comes to, you know, how are we going to implement this new digital process, Smartsheet is up there. It's the all-in-wonder. I call it the all-in-wonder tool at work, and people say, "Okay, here she comes. "She's going to talk about Smartsheet." That's because, I always say, "Smartsheet does a thousand things." That's why I really want to listen to what is necessary. I don't want to tell you about a thousand things. I only want to tell you about the things that, you know, you're looking at in this process. When the person starts using the new Smartsheet process, almost always they come back to me and say, "Look what else I found." So as they go on that journey, they start finding other things as well. And then we get excited together, and I say, "But did you see this?" And so, this whole, you know, Santa Claus is comin' to town (all laugh) That's kind of what it feels like. >> So, how has the collaboration culture changed over time? A lot of the conversations here around Smartsheet is that, A, you know, you can bring in people from an external organization, not to mention you can bring in external people from your organization within the big company. Have you seen a big change in you know, kind of how the teams form, and what's kind of the collaborative workgroup as these collaboration tools have suddenly become available? >> I think the biggest part with collaboration is now people know the upstream process and the downstream process. So, what information is going into this process, what do I need to do with it, and then what is the way that it needs to be ready for that next handoff, from a process perspective? So I like that. The @mentions are beyond wonderful. When I think about those @mentions, we have the place, especially in Smartsheet, to create comments. And you create the comment, but I'm too busy. I'm not going to go back to row 87 and see what you said. But, if you do this @mention, I've noticed that people, when they're using the app, you know, the @mention comes through. Even if they're not directly at their email, they'll go and see, "Oh, somebody's talking to me here." And so their app is helping them respond in real time. So, another part of the collaboration piece is cutting out collaboration. So, a lot of meetings, "'Kay, give me the status, what's the status." Well we can certainly just automate those reports, and make it exactly what, you know, the executive or the leader wanted to know, from a high-level perspective. And so, we don't have to have as many meetings. >> I love it though. That collaboration means cutting out collaboration. >> Mm-hmm. >> That is so important. One of the things that you said that was really striking is, understanding the upstream and the downstream. Because we heard on the main stage, and we are hearing a lot today, about how it's providing much more visibility. And leaders are able to see the big picture, and understand where things are working and where things are not working. But it actually, it's also helpful for the everyday employees, for the people who are several notches below, to understand and have that full picture. Can you talk about how having the full information has changed the way your company gets work done? >> Absolutely. So, inside of the process that I own, I'm in a learning and development team, and there are several trainers. There are several people who own curriculum and, you know, we are serving about 4,000 employees. We want to make sure these employees are getting the right learning that they need, and preparing them to do their job. So I certainly want to empower those trainers and curriculum owners to do their thing. I'm not going to go to class with you. I probably don't even know your content. But when I looked at Smartsheet dashboards, I started, you know, reporting is great. But when you flip it around, it's now a portal. And this is a information portal that everybody can be connected to. So, if we have a release in our system, if there's new materials that they can share, these can be happening right there at that portal. So I like it that I can empower people to not need me. And sometimes that can be scary. You think, "Oh, automation, it's coming, "and a robot's going to take over my job!" It's not that it's going to do, I have lots to do. But having this portal view allows people to go in and really be empowered. The other thing I have is sort of a ticketing system. So there's one of me, and 4,000 of them, and everybody might want something from WandaJean. So, I have a intake form that could easily take that work in and talk to me, and I get to know, you know, they put timeframes around when they need this. So I get to bubble up which ones are the most important ones, and which ones I can put off for a little bit. But at the end of the year, my leader might want to come back to me and say, "You know, what have you done for me lately?" And so, all of this input that has come through in this really standardized way could create a dashboard about what I've been doing, and I get to celebrate and understand, wow, I've had 50% more learning requests, and this many people wanted to learn about a tool, and, so I would have those metrics to even celebrate my own work and what I do as an individual. >> That's really interesting, right? 'Cause then you go from, the classic paradigm is there's data, right, which then becomes information, which then hopefully becomes some insight that you can actually take action. So it sounds like you're pulling that just on your straight-up inbound form, to actually get a whole lot of information on what's going on in that community, and where you can prioritize your time, your activities. >> Yes, well we create job requisitions and we hire people for roles. You know, you get this job description, you will do this and you will do that. It will be interesting at the end of the year to look back at this intake and see everything that you've actually done, versus what you signed up to do when you took the job. So, sometimes it looks really different, like, "Wait a minute, I think I need some more money." (Rebecca laughs) "'Cause I didn't get hired for this." >> Right, right, right, I've done so much more. >> Yes. >> Talk a little bit about the silos within the organization, and the ways in which the Smartsheet is helping break down those silos. >> Okay. So I talked to you guys a little earlier and told you that I believe that silo is an acronym for Secrets in the Learning Organization. And when you have those secrets, and you have no idea what this team or this team is doing, it could really cost the company cost, quality, speed. It's going to slow us down. We're going to both duplicate processes. And the quality of our product, instead of having process excellence, we'll have pockets of excellence. And we want to make everybody into these rockstars for the company. So, putting it together and making it more of, you know, a transparent ecosystem is awesome. The one thing that I really like is, when you map out a process and you pull in the right people and get those people involved, you'll get to understand, you know, resource management, any constraints, and you know, "Why is it, Bob, that you haven't done anything with this?" Where, I don't do that. And, you know, it starts a conversation. We can see, number one, what's wrong. And then we could have a conversation with the person about what's wrong. And it gives another action item for us to make it right. So without these sorts of, you know, without Smartsheet really helping us technologically bring those things together, it would be hard for me to even know where Bob is. It's a very big company. GE Healthcare is about 60,000 people. So, I don't know. I don't even know where Bob is right now. Bob, where are you? (laughter) But if Bob gets pulled into that Smartsheet, it shrinks the world, and it makes our big giant company just that much smaller, and people start knowing who you are and what you're supposed to be doing. And you get the right traffic of work. And then anything else that doesn't belong to you, it can get rerouted. >> Love to get your take on re-skilling, which isn't directly part of what you're doing, but you're currently doing re-skilling in terms of tools to execute different, you're training people to probably be more collaborative by using these tools and that different types of process. So important that re-skilling happens in the future, as all the jobs change. Just, you know, are people up for this? Are they excited to learn a new tool? Do they see that there're different ways to get work done than maybe our tradition? Or you still got the old codgers in the back, saying, you know, "That's not the way we did it 20 years ago!" >> Exactly, you do have that, you do have that. But, you know, this whole fake it until you make it, it's not going to work anymore. There's so many opportunities, especially within our company. We are sharing with our people leaders how to have collaboration across teams. Really don't think that your whole world is just right here inside of your job. Think broadly about what you do. And I like to say that, you know, I act locally but I think globally. So that just means, if I see that there is a process that I'm a part of, this is a mindset that we're sharing with our employees. If you see there's a process that you're a part of, and you see that it's broken and you fix it, fix it in such a way that it scales, and that it's applicable. You know, if we're all process managers, you probably have this problem too. So, create the fix, and then celebrate that socially, and show someone else, you can do it too. >> Rebecca: You can replicate this. >> You can replicate this. It's the classic before and after. You know, if we want to lose weight, we don't want to see the skinny person and telling, you know, how we got skinny. We want to see when you were larger, you know? You want to see the before and the after, and make sure that, you know, and when people see that, like, "It's possible? "I don't have to be, like, this superstar coder?" When they see how easy it is and they grab that process, I've seen them just do wonderful things. It's amazing, what our employees do. >> So, as a Digital Learning Evangelist, I mean, I don't know, how many are there of you in the world? And is it lonely? Do you come to these conferences to sort of have some community and some commiseration and understanding? I mean, what is it like, and how do you share your best practices with other people who do what you do in other companies? >> Well, in other companies, of course, our social networks, LinkedIn and those professional communities that I'm a part of, Smartsheet has a user group community, we can share there. Internally, there are people who are very interested in process. We use Yammer, so Microsoft Yammer. And we have a Smartsheet Yammer channel. This is one of the most healthiest channels in our business. We can see the stats on how many people are asking questions. And you have people coming there and saying, "Has anybody ever done this?" When I see that sort of curiosity, when I see someone in Europe jumping to help somebody in Mexico, it really is energizing, and it lets us know that everybody's trying to help everybody win. But how do I collaborate and get with other people? I do. I collaborate with other companies that, you know, I found out that Starbucks actually used Smartsheet during a disaster where there was a hurricane and they sent a Smartsheet forum out to their baristas, "Are you okay? "Can you make some coffee?" And, you know-- (laughter) >> Can you make the coffee. >> "And, oh by the way, take good pictures of the damage, "so we can submit it to our insurance." So, that's something that our company can use. And I'll take that back to our team, and say, "Guess what Starbucks did with this?" And, "Guess what PayPal did with this?" I sent PayPal's Smartsheet movie around to our executive team. They were very impressed. Now, it's not just that they were impressed. It's that, over the next two months, I heard that very same executive say, "We're going to create an integrated marketing calendar, "and we're going to use Smartsheet." That just made me feel so rewarded, that, you know, somebody is listening. You're not just talking! (Rebecca laughs) There are some converts! >> Great. Well, WandaJean, a pleasure having you on the show. >> Thank you, thank you so much. >> Please come back again. >> Yes, I will! >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Jeff Fricks, stay tuned of more of theCUBE's live coverage of ENGAGE 2019. (minimal techno tone) (mellow music)

>>Live from Seattle, Washington. It's the cube covering Smartsheet engage 2019 brought to you by Smartsheet. >>Welcome back everyone. You are watching the cube and we are here in Seattle, Washington at Smartsheet engage 2019 I'm your host, Rebecca Knight along with my cohost Jeff Frick. We're joined by Mark Klein. He is the principal at populace. Thank you so much for coming on the show. My pleasure. Thank you. So you have a very cool job. Tell our viewers a little bit about populace and about what you do. Sure. So populace is actually an architect firm. Our main focuses architecture. We one of the largest sports architecture firms in the world. So we build stadiums and arenas and convention centers and airports and places that people gather is our bread and butter is over 500 worldwide employees that work on that. But we have an event office out of Denver, Colorado where we take our architectural principles and apply them to major gatherings of people in the sporting world and other areas. >>And these are sporting include the includes include the final four >> in the Olympics and all of your NFL major events that are not a regular season game. All of your inner NHL events that happen in stadiums outdoors, all star games, things like that. Any major event, it's a nonstandard event. They really call on us to help make sure that that goes off without a hitch. Yup. >> All right, so talk a little bit about what it was like before you believe what it was like before you use Smartsheet and entered the, the headaches and the problems and that and now what life is like now. Sure, >> so a little more than 10 years ago when I joined the firm, we had a good stable of events and events. We're still kind of just operating off spreadsheets and back in napkins and drawings and things like that as security and to nine 11 was actually a major factor in kind of the growth of our industry where events now had to be planned a little more with more scrutiny. >>We needed a way to better pull our information together and get everybody to to, to, to collaborate on one set of drawings, one schedule who's doing what and when. And Smartsheet has become that prime resource for all of our event planning >> and for in for an event, there's so many outside contractors that you guys have to orchestrate with, whether it be the teams and the associations and the security and the venue and the concessions. The list goes on transportation, on and on and on. So to be able to bring outsiders into your project, >> and that's a new set every year with every event. So you think of the final four, we're going to a new city every year. So EV, I have literally eight months to work with a team to plan a major event that's going to be seen by hundreds of millions of people. And then I've got to pick up and do it again in another city and then another. >>And we're doing that across dozens of events across our team every year. So we may have a vendor that touches the system once. We may have someone who sees us once every third year. So within our environment we have extremely high turnover of people. We have very short period to get them up to speed and working with us. So Smartsheet has been really, really a big part of Hey I need you to better get in here, get your information and work with the tool, get us the information and guess what, you're going to get some feedback on this one too. So it benefits them. >>Right. It's just interesting to me that the level of granularity and detail, you know, we get, we go to a lot of events, obviously there's so much minutia that you have to keep track of from printing on the napkins, you know, to signage, etc. But at the same time, especially in the sporting world, you know, there can be huge changes, you know, especially at the same plow who wins a game, changes the venue. Right? So how do you, how do you use a tool to manage the boat? The tremendous detail when you have the opportunity to plan versus the change of plan a we got to got to shift, >>he hears well so, so we use a lot of the tools that Smartsheet is has built into it for automation. So for example, at the final four, we don't know our teams until Sunday night and that that that Monday we have decor going up, team specific decor. So locker room assignments. As soon as the game is final we send out notifications in Smartsheet to the decor printers that you're printing this graphic, this size, these a locker room assignments, these are the bus assignments. So all of that is, is queued up and ready to go. Um, so a lot of those last minute things that you may think of, we've thought through them and are ready to trigger as many as we can. You're never 100%, but if we can get that 80% 90% triggered and out the door as soon as the decision is made or the team has decided that lets us deal with those others that are a little less planned. >>So, but those are ones where, you know, those are sort of the known unknowns. What about when you have the unknown unknowns, when things like bad weather can affect an event or, I mean, how do you, how do you use Smartsheet into change on a dime when that happened? >>So, um, we, we plan and we plan and we plan. So for example, bad weather is something we have multiple plans for. But where Smartsheet comes into play as I have real time scheduling information sitting on my screen in a control room at an event. So if we have a weather event, we have two or three options that we can pick from. But I'm now looking at the realtime Smartsheet schedule going, all right, if we select option one, be aware we're going to affect these items. If we go with option two, these are the items. So it's the information that has been gathered through that planning phase and everybody's put their information in. So I know what our action is going to cause and the ripple effects of those. >>And Lindsay, the smart, the choose your own adventures when you were a kid reading those, choose your own adventure, want to open >>a door and guess what's there. I want to open a door of a decision and know that this is the follow on effect and I can look at the schedule and the vendors involved of who I'm about to impact with my decision. Right. And do you have the car, you have the comms and all that stuff dialed in there as well? Correct. Yeah. So we're on radio and we're, you know, these, these events, we run control centers. So there's eight or nine of us sitting in a control room. I, I send Mark meter a picture every year of my Smartsheet screen with some field of play behind it, beautiful ball or basketball field and go smart. We're ready to go, keep it up, keep it running for the next few hours. So, um, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a fairly intense time. Um, when, when we opened doors or we turn on the cameras if those events, because let's face it, there's 70,000 people sitting there and there's usually three triple digit, a hundred millions of people watching on television. >>So it has to go right. That's a lot of pressure. Yes. How do you deal with it? How does your team deal with it? I mean you're used to it of course, but is there, uh, it's the confidence in the plan. I think that has really shaped how we get to that point and don't and don't overreact or get too caught up in the moment. So, um, what we do within the planning of, of our events and with our staff and is we put everybody's tasks in in Smartsheet of course. So my tunnel captain only has to focus on the 40 things that he or she is responsible for. So he may be standing at a team tunnel and we've extracted from the schedule are Austin, here are your 40 items. Don't worry about every, all the chaos going around you. Cause I've got 40 other people out working those items. >>So we filter schedules by either location or staff member so that they can put their blinders on and stay focused on their tasks. And that's really how people can focus and stay. Stay in the moment. What's coming next? What do I need to worry about? Cause there's 4,000 line items in that schedule. I can't have him trying to figure out what are his right at that moment. Mark, I would shift gears a little bit cause you guys came from an architectural bet, the company's architectural background and buildings, venues and stadiums. We just had the new chase. Then you just got finished in San Francisco. Beautiful new facility as the way you guys think about, it's kind of people centric. It's Vinnie's for people in its events for people. What are some of the kind of the guiding principles that make for a good event? A good venue from the people experience point of views. >>There's really multiple sets of customers that I look at at every venue. Obviously we always started the field of play. You gotta get that right? It's gotta be a hundred yards long. It's gotta be. And I thought they broke that rule the other day. We won't go there. Um, so feel to play out. So you've got your competitors, your spectators, and then your operators. All three of those. We focus on all of them equally because if one piece of that triad doesn't work, then the overall experience doesn't work. So obviously the field of play honestly is the easiest part to deal with. But it's an important part. So you look at how a team is going to arrive at a venue bus, whatever the case may be, so that they get to their locker room, get to their services that out to their field and back and forth to media obligations. >>So you don't want to put a media work room halfway across the stadium because then they're making a long Trek. It's a little things like that in the, in the team component, spectators, obviously theirs could be 50 to, if it's a baseball park, 50,000 up to 70,000 in a stadium. We want to ensure that they're going to fully enjoy their two to four hours in that building. Um, so we work on scheduling with our vendor. The one of the biggest things we found in the, in that area is we have really engaged with our contractors, the concessions folks, because they were kind of operating on their own. So engaging concessions to say, don't be moving product when there are people in the building, no one, the timeouts are, we'll call you from control based on the schedule so that we're synchronizing building operations so that they're, the customers are running out of water. >>Well we didn't run out of water, we couldn't get it to you. So things like that are really important to our planning. And then the group that really gets overlooked at, I spend a lot of time on is the people that helped build and get the building ready. Because if my vendors are having a rough time getting their things in the building or building the platform I've asked for or setting up the stage, they're just not going to be in a good frame of mind when the lights turn on. And I want everybody to be, yeah, let's go. We've had a great experience in the five days leading up to this event, whatever it may be. I'm ready now to put on a show. So we use Smartsheet IX so much with our vendors to help guide them through the build process, scheduling, deliveries, getting their credentials where they're going to park and where do I take my breaks? >>Everything is there at their fingertips. So even the mom and pop vendors that I deal with, and there are quite a few of them from city to city, feel like they're as important as my Avi company. So they're excited. They do their load in there like, Hey, this is a great experience and now they're here to help support the event. And then when I call and go, guess what? We have a problem. I need your help. They're going to share, Mark, what can we do? Right? Cause they're there, they're enthusiastic and they didn't feel like I beat 'em up right during that load in great, great insight. People centric. But you're talking about it's treating people like people, not just that they are some cog in the wheel that they are to to execute this task. Right, right. Yeah. No happy staff deliver happy events. >>So what's next in terms of, in terms of a broader adoption in terms of more improvements that you're seeing on the pipeline? Um, so I'm really excited about the collaboration component that was announced today at the keynote. Um, we are an architect firm, so the base of all of our plant, all of our events is a set of drawings, drawings that show what we need, where it is, when it's gonna happen. So all of our non drawing material has lived in Smartsheet for 10 years. I'm now gonna be able to bring those drawings in and get the collaborative information to feedback. So we take a drawing, we'll send it to CBS and say, please Mark up how you think we've drawn your broadcast compound. That has all been email. Now with this collaboration tool, it's going to live in Smartsheets. So I cannot tell you how excited I am about the collaboration component. >>It's gonna. It's gonna really streamline how we do our business. I, I'm kinda lost for words to get in there and try it. My staff is gonna probably go Mark. You can't go to any more conferences, but, uh, I think it's really going to be a great addition to our work process. Um, the other one that has been a personal part of mine, a personal goal that I've seen is the adoption by our staff are the to day work process. Um, I listened in the office, we have a big open work plan space and I listened for my staff going, I've got to put this plan together, attract this and I go, I literally will stand up and walk over. Have you thought about using Smartsheet? And half of the time they haven't. And um, I will say, let me help you through it. Let me get you started and see if it works for you. >>Um, so that organic growth with Smartsheet, um, is, is the big step that we're doing on a day to day basis, um, to get staff introduced to a new way to work and be more collaborative of how they, they manage your information. So, um, just that that kind of growth is, is, is ongoing. Um, but after I've been to the conference, I can say I've got a little more knowledge about it. Let me, uh, let me, uh, help you out a little bit and get you to use it. Right, right, right, right. And you're even finding ways to use it in your personal life, you said? Sure. I use it for home tasks. We plan, we plan our kid's birthday celebrations in it. So my wife and I will share a sheet about who's visiting for graduation. My daughter's high school graduation is coming up. We actually post a forum on Smartsheet coming where they staying at the tag that I put up on the wall over there as people think I work for Smartsheet with how much we use it. So yes, it bleeds into the personal life, but why not exactly a word. I don't fix it. Thank you so much for coming on. The show is a lot of fun talking pleasure. Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff Frick. Stay tuned. Have more of engaged 2019 here in Seattle. You're watching the cube.

>>live from Seattle, Washington. It's the key nude covering Smartsheet engaged 2019. Brought to you by smartsheet >>Welcome back, everyone to Seattle. Washington. We're here at smartsheet engaged 2019. I'm your host, Rebecca Night, along with my co host, Jeff. Rick, You're watching the Cube? We're here with a Cuba Lama Cube veteran Dion Hinchcliffe, VP and principal analyst at Constellation Research at a Washington D. C. Thank you so much for returning to the Cube. >>Absolutely. Thanks for having me. >>So we're here to talk with you about the future of work, which is a huge topic, but a fascinating one. I want you to start by giving sort of a broad brush of what you see are the biggest changes right now happening in the work force driven by the new the rise of digital technologies. >>Sure. I mean, well, it digital is infusing everything in the workplace these days, right? So, you know, we've had the past waves of productivity tools and mobile devices came through and then eventually augmented reality and virtual reality. You're gonna literally change how we perceive the workplace on then We have just, you know, everyday translate remote working and now people can work from anywhere, right. It's fantastic, and that's that's really revolutionized a lot of things. Things in 2% of the workforce per year is becoming a remote work force. Companies like 80 p have 1/4 of their work force working from home, right X century, something to get rid of office space. And they work out of their house. Unless there's a client site on because you can credit, create the experience that you want and one of the really big trends is this is this trend towards be able to shape the employees experience the way that you want to using the tools that you prefer. And so people call this shadow I t. Other people call it innovation, right? And so that's one of the big changes. Then we have things like the gig economy, which is allowing people to build the lifestyles they want. We're doing any kind of work they want when they want to, when they feel like it on their own terms on that's that's really quite exciting to use all these. This confluence of forces are enabled him driven by technology, but it's also leading to a lot of what we call cognitive overload workers. They're not lifelong learners are feeling overwhelmed by this, and that's another big challenge. >>But you also get this tools >>proliferation, which they're just not. They're just not word and excel anymore. But you've got a tab open with Salesforce. You've got a A tab open with slack. You got Gmail open. You've got Doc's open. He got smart cheat open. You might have Jiro open. I mean, so how is that gonna sort itself out as we just kind of keep adding new tabs of AB? So we have to keep in our >>way. And we need all this technology to do better work. Thes APS provide value, except that it's increasing the on boarding time for workers. It's making it hard for us, the train people. In some company. It's hard to retain people because they feel like they have to go to work. And there's this onslaught of technology. They have to have 30 tabs open to get their jobs done, and they do. And so we're seeing things that you know we're at the smartsheet conference where how can we centralize work a little bit better? Streamline it by integrating the tools and credit more focused on what we're doing. And that's a very big trend. S Oh, my latest digital workplace trends report. We say that we're seeing these hubs for me, like Slack is another workup that's become very popular inside of organizations. They have over 1100 application integrations that allow people to spend their time in one place and kind of work through all these other systems from one hub. So we're dealing with this complexity starting to be able to do this now. But it's early days still a big challenge. >>So so So what are you seeing now? So what? So what is the answer then? I mean, we have You've just described all of these trends that are taking place that they're making making the modern workplace so much more complex, dealing with workers who they're dealing with, cognitive overload leaders who want more with less What? What are some of the answers? What are some of the most exciting tools that you're seeing right now? >>Boys, we talked already about smartsheet and slack. We see the new digital experience platforms are emerging on low code and know code is also becoming popular to be able to take the pieces of the applications you want and create more streamlined experiences. So the CEO of Accenture, Andrew Wilson, you solve this problem right away Their their knowledge. Workers were being choked by all of these tools, but yet we need the value they provide. So he began to divide up the employees experience of the 100 top moments, and then he built experiences that enabled project management and on boarding and all these key activities to be friction free, built out of their existing applications. Streamlines, too, just what they needed to dio. And he views this as his top priority as a digital leaders and say, We've got to take much complexity away so we can get at the values with streamlining the simplification on. We now have tools that allow that shaping that happen very quickly. >>It's almost reminds me it's kind of the competition for Deb's right now competition for employees, and we've talked a lot about the consumer ization Oh, I t and mobile devices for the customer experience. But there hasn't been as much talk about leveraging that same kind of expected behaviour writer expected in her engagement interaction with the APS on the actual employee engagement side, which is probably as fierce of a battle as it is to get customers because I think there's a lot more than 2% customers out available, but we only got 2% unemployment in the Bay Area. Now. It's crazy, >>effectively, negative unemployment, right, right? Is that anything under 3%? Yes, so you know this is the challenges employees experience is usually low on the priority list for CEOs usually have analytics and cloud in cyber security and all these things that they have to get done that are higher priority. Yet customer experiences is one of those priorities. But how does an employee give a good customer experience when they have a poor experience to do it, deliver it with right? The worst thing you could do with talented people is expected to do a great job and then give him a bunch of hard to use tools, right? Which is what's happening. So we are now finally seeing that privatization go up a little bit because employees experiences part of delivering great customer experience. That is how you how do you create that experience to begin with so small progress >>and leaders air seeing that as a priority of retaining their top people because they understand that they're workers need to feel satisfied with their work life. >>Yeah, and now we have data on a lot of these things we didn't have before, you know? And I'm sure you've seen the numbers. Most employees air disengaged at work, the majority right between 50 and 60% depending on whose data you're looking at. That's an enormous untapped investment that that that workers are not performing the way that they could if they had better employees experiences and what's disengaged. As I mentioned, giving a talented person lousy tools are allows the experience and expecting the two greatest. It doesn't happen. How >>much do you >>think? A. L Excuse me. Aye, aye. And machine learning will be able to offload enough of the mundane to flip the bit on how engaged they are in their job. >>Yeah, it's interesting because there's, you know, there's two sides to a coin there. Some people like a job that they could just kind of phone in, and it's kind of wrote, and they can come in. They don't have to think too hard and then go home to their families. So people are hired on that basis, right? Because that's the challenge a I and machine learning will absolutely automate. Most wrote work if you look at like a dill bee sense A. I was at the adobe conference and they were talking about how all of these creative types you have all these mundane tasks automated for them, and I could see everybody looking at each other going. I >>could pay to >>do >>that creative rate. >>So you see the things like robotic process automation is working. I mean, I hear anecdotes all the time from CEOs how they how they cut 25% out of the call center because they handed it over to the box, right? You know, Bill processing. That's one of the, you know and sorting matching bills, the invoices, a manual job, even in today's world until very recently. So we are seeing that happen about the most wrote level and just, but it's just gonna climb up from there. >>What do you see down the road, though? I mean in terms of those in terms of those employees were raising their saying can saying I kind of want that job. Are you? Are you seeing what's gonna happen to those people? Are they going to have to learn new skills? Are they are they going to be invested in by their companies? >>We hope so. You know, it's interesting. We see that all the big vendors have these big education programs. Sales force has trailhead s a P just announced open ASAP where they give away massively open online courses on. And Microsoft has done this with Microsoft Developers Network way back in the day, trying to educate people. You can get Reese killed for nothing for free now if you want to do it. But this is the challenges, even though every technological revolution in the past it looks like this one, too, has you are really changed the employment picture. By and large, it creates more jobs than we lose on. That looks like it's gonna happen here. But the people who lose their jobs, not the ones that tend to gain the job, gets a new job. They often it's hard to take somebody who's who's sorting bills and say, I need you to develop a new way I algorithm because that's where you have executed jobs. They're gonna be directing the eye to do all these things right on. So I think the short term is gonna be dislocation. And it's happening so fast that unless society, government and enterprises really intervene that toe up skill, these folks, we are gonna have a challenge. >>We're in this really weird time to in between. I mean, the classic one is long haul trucking, right, which is perfect for autonomous vehicles. T carry a lot of that freight, and everyone pretty much agrees that's gonna happen. At the same time there's there's a huge shortage of available truck drivers today, like there never has been. So is he's weird, and it's probably not the best thing for a young kid to get into right, because doesn't have a lot of great long term, >>right? >>Well, you look at uber on their stated direction is they want to get rid of all these drivers they want. They want self driving taxis on, you know, we're getting close to where that might actually happen right on. So the unskilled labor is gonna be hit by far the worst you have to become skilled labor in the digital economy on a big part of the future of work is going to be finding ways to get the skills into people's hands on Facebook and other larger. They don't even require a college degree what they want people to people that can deliver that could take these things and create the, you know, the great products of the future. On DSO, you know, those everyone has to become a knowledge worker >>and in as layered, Hamilton said. On the main stage today, it's the formula of learning to really understand when you're starting from a point of Wow, I don't know much about that. I guess I better learn about it and then learning a lot about it along the way, we all have to be able to adapt and adopt those >>absolutely no the and so that way see up Skilling and cross killing becoming more trans disciplinary. So business people are becoming I t folks now and I t folks really business people. We had this business I t divide for a long time. It cracks me up. I still go to big companies in the I T department using its own building, right? But those days were going away. And I'll see that, you know now is that people over on the business side that live there now, right? So we're seeing this kind of blending where digital is infusing everything, and so you have to become digitally confident on this is where we have to make that simpler. This is going back to the digital workplace. The average user, as had the number of applications they have thio to learn double or triple in just the last five years. Right? So it's a big challenge. >>So what should kids be majoring in today? What's your >>Oh, uh, game design gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry by a large large margin, right? And that that's where all the experience of these immersive experiences and virtual reality and augmented reality >>a come >>from and then you can go into business, right? You know, >>even sociology majors, design games. >>Yeah, it's just, you know, just get like it's the poor tweeners, right that get bumped on the old and aren't necessarily in a position to take care of the new. And I want to take care of it. Unfortunately, not a lot of great record of retraining to date. But maybe that's gonna have to be a much more significant investment because there just aren't the people to fill those positions, period. >>Well, and there's a big market places now. You can build the career of your dreams. You goto up work or gig stir. I mean, these are big job markets where you go and find work and do it from anywhere. Using a tablet you bought for $50 off Amazon, right? You know, just that most you weren't even aware that they could do that. Right? So >>the world put a few bucks away for insurance and you put a few bucks away in your for one k and you, you know, just living off the cash, plus a little bit to cover your cost, which, unfortunately rather like the uber drivers in the lift drivers are Anyway, you know, they're not really thinking that thing for building a career. >>Well, I've crawled to those platforms and it's interesting. Entrepreneurial activity is very common in places like Asia, right? Where? Where you know, they come here, they build businesses right away, right, And they're used to that and we lost some of that. But I think we gave economy is giving a lot of that back to us. We have to relearn it again, you know. >>Great. Well, Dionne, thank you so much for coming on the Cube. It was a pleasure having you. >>Absolutely Thanks, Jeff. Thanks for >>I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff. Rick. Stay tuned For more of the cubes. Live coverage of NJ engaged 2019.

>>Live from Seattle, Washington. It's the cube covering Smartsheet engage 2019 brought to you by Smartsheet. >>Welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of Smartsheet engage here in Seattle, Washington. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. Along with my cohost Jeff Frick. We have Chris Marsh on the program. He is a research director of workforce productivity and compliance at four 51 research. Thank you so much for coming on the show. So you have just completed a massive report that really looks at the future of work and, and the premise is that the future of work is changing dramatically because of the rise of digital technology. It's, it's, it's changing the way companies think about employees, the way employees think about their jobs. Give us, give us sort of the high level findings here. >>Yeah. So yeah, a big report took me most of my summer so I kind of hibernated for a good month and a half to do it. Um, and yeah, it crystallizes a lot of our views around how, you know, protest technology and culture coming together to, to ground new ways of working. Um, and I guess the basic premise is that, uh, we all know this pervasive friction across day to day work. I mean we've sort of dysfunctional accepted that as the status quo, but actually we seen a lot of our survey research that it's being regarded increasingly in the upper echelons of management within companies as a priority that needs to be, that needs to be addressed. In fact, we had some survey work, um, that came out of failed recently. It was to base it in line of business decision makers and it was what should IUTs priority be when it comes to transformation initiatives and number one was improving the productivity and collaboration experience. >>Now if you put that in the context of all the other things on its plate, the fact that that's number one when traditionally it hasn't been, it's insignificant. And actually we did the same question, same survey September last year. It was number one then. And that was the first time it blips on the radar. So this is, you know, written up the agenda, exec management, it leadership, um, and now looking at ways to address that pervasive friction. So, I guess the basic premise of, of our thinking is that a lot of the legacy technologies on, I mean, they've led to that friction in some ways, right? So most companies have organized in one way or another around the silos that applicate traditional applications have created. And that's created organizational silos and, and hence all of the friction. But we see a lot of interesting new technology trends and tooling that are allowing people to basically operationalize work in the seams between those legacy systems. So lifting some of the data information and potentially workflow workload out of those systems and having them in a, you know, some of the new types of work platform that we're seeing, you know, which Smartsheet's a good example to actually operate in a much more agile way. And we call that shift one from systems of record, which we kind of understand to what we call systems of delivery. Um, so that two, we'll have a big gravitational effects on the way the rest of the business application landscape evolve. >>So didn't, uh, it, uh, kind of grow up to support the silos that were defined before. There was it, there was always sales, there was marketing, there was the executive suite, there was accounting. Um, and, and the it and the apps grew to be aligned. So do you think now that the actual collaboration apps like Smartsheet can actually pull, can pull the silos of the organization into this more hybrid structure? >>Yeah, I think, I think that it certainly looks like, I think that's what companies want to happen. Um, I think it's still early days. I mean the w the way most companies are set up in know actually has a lineage going back a couple of hundred years. The industrial revolution and mechanization leading to standardization, leading to compartmentalization. And then you have lines of businesses we kind of currently understand it. And that's why this is such an interesting time at the moment because a lot of that is breaking down relatively quickly. Um, and obviously the competing area has been the prime catalyst for that. Um, so yeah, I mean, you know, other things that come out of our survey research, massive appetite from senior managers for more collaboration across departments. Right? So, not just within teams, which in and of itself is a challenge, but across departments. Um, so you know, marketing, speaking more often and more purposefully with finance, legal speaking more often with operations. So there is an appetite for higher order types of, not just collaboration but actually work, design, planning, work, execution, um, not just sitting in those departmental silos. >>What is driving this at this appetite? Because I mean it would seem like it was always there and maybe there's just a recognition that we have the tools and the technology to actually execute or is there something that's actually fundamentally changing about the global world that we're living in? >>Yeah, I mean, so we talk about it in the report about this era of personalization, right? Which is just everything we've seen explode in the consumer domain around technology and the climatization we've all had to new kinds of digital experience and how they are coming into the workforce. People want new people will have expectations when you come to digital experience as part of their day to day work. Um, and so that's one thing. The, obviously the related element to that is that companies need to be much more agile in responding to disruptions in their own market. And this is obviously vertical agnostic now. So if there's one thing that you really need to make sure you're good at in the digital age, it's being agile, right? Spotting the sort of signals in the market, understanding what they mean in terms of customer demand, and then you know, catering to that demand quickly with some kind of new products or service or experience. >>So I think it's that need to be able to respond really quickly because there's so much disruption that technology has brought to us. That means that companies are saying, okay, we can't any longer wait six months for this just project life cycle is work life cycle to, to, to run its course. We need to respond more quickly. We need to organize much more agile. We all need to be on the same page when it comes to what we're supposed to be doing. Right? So there's a big demand for a clear line of sight across work. Um, so I think that's, that's probably where it's coming from. All companies realizing we need to act quicker, respond quicker. >>I'm curious, you know, it took a long time for dev ops to really be accepted as the optimal way to create products. Right. Versus a PRD and an MRD and then a PRD and then we define it and we take these when we build in and shoot, we miss the market. Right. It changed in terms of actually running the business though. I mean, do you have any kind of point of view on how long it will take for people to figure out that yes, we can make micro adjustments on our strategy based on speed, competitive threats, but at the same time I've got to be executing on some of these longer term objectives as well, which I would imagine would be a push back on that, on that technique. >>Yeah. I mean it will take as long as the technologies need to have to emerge to support companies really operating in that kind of agile way. Um, I mean one of the things we talk about, um, is the, what we call the three A's, right? So the imperative to be agile operationally, I think there's growing realization that that means that there needs to be tooling to support more autonomy, which is the second, a while more autonomy for more of the workforce to do higher order types of thing. So rather than having the centralized teams of process specialists or you know, technical experts, that needs to be more capability in the tooling, the everyday tooling for, for people to design work and execute on it. But that really is dangerous if you don't have the alignment piece, which goes back to kind of what you were saying about we can't just have a distributed set of teams who are going off and doing their own thing. >>There needs to be alignment back to strategy. There needs to be alignment potentially back to governance and compliance and there needs to be alignment potentially also to work that's adjacent but relevant. It's happening in other teams maybe in other departments. So I think that's really the sweet spot. How do you balance those three things? Um, which is driving a lot of the new interesting technologies that we're seeing emerge. But you know, we're still in relatively early days I think. Um, so you know, give it some time to, to play out. There's different layers of abstraction I think in software that that needs to happen for organizations to really be able to operate in that agile way. There's resource management, this planning, this process automation. A lot of these things have been resident really in discrete kinds of tooling, but the broadly being democratized and Smartsheet's actually a good example of the type of company that's beginning to offer those kinds of capabilities. Workforce wide to Smartsheet users where as they were may, may be previously just to preserve certain types of specialists. User >>I want to ask about what you, what this means for the individual employee in terms of it sounds as though he or she will be more empowered to do more and execute a but also expected more of a moral be expected of that employee in terms of what his or her skill levels are. And then I also want to ask what you're seeing here at Smartsheet engage that is most interesting to you, particularly as it relates to the report. >>Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, I guess it's inevitable that more will be expected of employees, but I think, you know, in a, in a sense what we're seeing is the balance of power shift, not in an absolute terms, but, and, and you know, relative to how, how it's looks historically towards the employee. So at definite strand of inquiry amongst our clients and four or five, one has been how do we create an employee engagement narrative, right? There's growing realization that we've talked about customer experience for a long time, but we've, we've, we've neglected the idea of an employee experience. Um, so more companies are realizing that happy employees tend to be the more productive ones. So how do we introduce the right combination of tooling technologies and then compensation and then career opportunities to allow people to feel more engaged and empowered so that they can do those higher order kinds of things. Um, and this, yeah, this is, this is happening in a very kind of organic way. So, um, you know, I, I don't see this as companies saying, you know, you need to now achieve more. It's a little bit more, we need to provide you with the ability to achieve more. That's really the role of anybody who's making a decision around technology and an enterprise at the moment. >>But it's interesting because the, because the company has so much more data than they had before on kind of execution and some of the demos in the, in the keynote in terms of what are utilization, how many hours are you applying to this task? So it almost feels like there's more of a, in a treating people like a resource versus treating people like people. And I'm just curious how that, you know, kind of place, cause you, you want to do that, you want to measure, you want to know how your resources are allocated. At the same time there they're people, they're not machines and they're motivated as people and that's how you keep them or lose them a lot of times is the people part, not necessarily the job or the tasks. So how does, how does that map end? If I'm aggressive and I'm feeling good, yeah I like doing more but there's probably a lot of people that aren't necessarily up for that. I mean there's been a lot of all of >>'em talk in this conference already. Um, but more broadly in, in other forums of, um, the implications of more data in the context of machine learning and artificial intelligence, the degree to which, you know, by automating things that may previously have been done manually, is that going to upset people? I think on the whole, um, you know for a lot of types of work that may be Smartsheet is enabling, that's not so much of a concern cause you'll see here from their users very engaged, very enthusiastic. They want to get as much value in leave, which out of the platform was possible because they realized that's allowing them to do things that previously hadn't. But there is that sort of dichotomy of um, at what point do we automate things and not give you a choice in the fact that that's been automated. But I think these guys and another, the industry broadly is, is very conscious of that. So where you see all the kind of data being leveraged to do intelligent recommendations, intelligent notifications, there's going to be a wary eye on doing that without either an optin aware. An optin maybe isn't required, at least having permission from the end user to accept the implications of whatever's being recommended to do. So. I think on the whole, you know, people are sort of trying to figure out what that balance, >>what do you think this means for the war on war for talent? Because, I mean, this is the, this is the topic that the technology industry in particular, it's really grappling with, particularly when there are so many, uh, high level skills that are needed skills in, uh, AI and ML and other kinds of specialized technology. How do you, how do you put your, your findings in that context? >>Yeah, I mean it's, it really came on the agenda, this theme, um, couple of years ago, if not a little bit sooner than that as, as a really strategic issue. And in fact we see that in our own survey research where we asked the question to, um, employees across the workforce manage non-managerial to C suite and it was, you know, strategically one, what one thing do you need to improve on? And it was, um, uh, it was basically recruiting, developing and managing talent. And that's a head of, you know, everything else, like improving our, um, product differentiation, improving our customer experience, um, coming up with a strategy that's more fit for purpose, right? It was all about talent and people and managing people. So it's definitely risen up the agenda. I mean, I think one of the things that companies definitely, uh, beginning to think about is how to um, increase the acquisition of skills in the existing workforce and their way that's quicker than the way that's being done now. >>So actually one of the other areas we cover in our research is the shift from like traditional learning management systems, which have been kind of compliance oriented. You need to do this course or training because we need to show that you've done it to the kind of new generation of Alec speeds. We're learning experience platforms which provide much more agile ways for people to understand skills gaps and take on those skills. So I think that's gonna be a big driver actually of of the agile ways of working that we're talking about. But also how people address talent. The talent was, if you can't find that externally or you can't find enough externally, um, you can look internally of course, to existing employees and make sure that they have the platform to, to acquire new skills. >>And it's almost by a rule, you can't find it externally. Cause right now, just the, the, just not that much labor out there to go get, it's just so competitive. So you've got to develop a lot of that inside. >>Yeah. Yeah. I mean, um, and it's not just sort of technical skills, it's other kinds of skills. Right. Um, but I think there's a, I think there's a nascent appetite amongst a lot of the workforce just to do that from a career progression point of view. Right. If you know, and I think that's one of the implications of companies trying to find ways to be more operationally agile, manage resources and more kind of agile ways. You know, it might be the case that people who maybe wouldn't be considered for a particular role, um, might now be considered because they re they, you know, saw that there was a capacity problem, a resource problem. They learnt the skill they can be assigned to that kind of project. Whereas previously maybe lines of department lines of business prevented that visibility into who has skills across the workforce. >>That's interesting. Do you have a point of view about kind of workforce transformation and you're giving a talk tomorrow how to avoid the Frankenstein workforce experience just for effective workplace transformation. But it's an interesting play that digitally transform your people to digitally transform your business. People talk about doing it to the business, but they don't talk about doing it to the people. I talk about the workflows and the customer engagement. You're taking it down, you know, start at the base, start at the bed. >>Well this is, I mean this is a, a lot of the reasons as to why companies like Smartsheet came about. I mean digital transformation I think is a kind of narrative has done a good job of, of making companies realize they need to change and they need to change quickly. Technology is a big enabler of that, but it's tended to be kind of top down way of thinking about it. It's tended to be sort of, do you have like a center of excellence? Do you have a technology council? How do we sort of transform from core outwards? It's not really been grassroots from the bottom up, but increasingly tooling like Smartsheets enabling that to happen. Right. How do you get people really engaged using new kinds of tooling to do higher order things? How do you connect that with work that's being done elsewhere? So it's a much more bottom up movement. How I think about workforce transformation and digital transformation has been, and I think more more people are cutting onto the fact that that's the way you need to think about it. >>What's your number one advice for an executive who doesn't have time to read the 47 pages? >>Yeah, I mean I guess it goes back to the, to to maybe the um, those three A's I was talking about earlier. I think my, you know, certainly progressive companies, but I think it's mainstreaming that companies are realizing they need to be more agile. Um, you know, in a broad brush and obviously depends on the context that company, who their customers are and what they're trying to achieve. Um, but really I think it should be a consideration, especially when thinking about workforce tooling and like knowledge worker tooling. To what degree is that giving more autonomy to those people to do higher order things and but also, you know, again, can you tie that back to your goals as a company, right? Because we've had certain technologies in the past of decade that have created a bit of a wild West, right? People go off and do different things and then there's, there's a lack of visibility, a lack of line of sight back to strategy. But if you get the sweet spot in your technology choices between do that, do they help us be operationally agile? Are they giving people a highroad, you know, more ways to do higher order work. Can we tie that back in the way that we need to? Then I think you're at least thinking about it in the right way. >>Really analogous to shadow it is. As you're sitting here talking about kind of the ground swell up of people finding tools to enable them to do their job better and get around kind of the hierarchy that existed in got in their way before his son. You know, there's a lot of parallels to what happened there before. Finally the corporates figured out, okay, we actually need to do dev in public cloud. There's a lot of advantages, et cetera, etc. >>Yeah, there is, but it's kind of like a legitimate version of shadow it. Shadow it was like we call it, we don't like the tools we've been given. No, we don't have them. Let's go and find ones. Yeah. >>Right. Right >>now it's like the ones that are enterprise grade happens to be the ones we also are using. Right. So that's, that is the super interesting, um, sort of wave that companies like Smartsheet carrying these tools fundamentally appeal and they have lots of evidence that are appealing virally. >>Well, I mean the fact that you can collaborate with people outside your company on your license for free and I think Mark said 50% of their users are people that are outside of the organization of the licensee. That's a pretty, pretty, I don't want to say Trojan, uh, strategy, but certainly certainly feels like, you know, a great way to permeate, which I think back like at last, Ian with the way they got started with, you know, a $10 10 seat license and, and again, AWS and some of these early kind of backdoor ways in to deliver real value that people were willing to put the credit card down. Yeah. Right. >>But you know, I mean, so I guess the challenge for Smartsheet and others are as he became a more enterprise grade platform, how do you keep that user appeal? Right. Cause that could obviously be one scenario which has more features, more complication actually more difficult to use, more complex. These guys are very conscious of it. Others in that sort of environment are very conscious of it. Um, but yeah, I mean the whole can do thing which um, Anna talked about this morning in the keynote. It's interesting. It's like a really interesting sort of democratized way of talking about power users that we kind of used to talk about the sort of folks that have that technical ability. And they're the ones that drive some kind of work initiative. Um, you know, platforms like Smartsheet and others are giving more people the ability to be that power user. And that's, that's kind of cool. >>Awesome. Great note to end on. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Chris. Thanks for having me. I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff Frick. Stay tuned. You're watching the cube.

>> Live from Bellevue, Washington, it's theCUBE covering Smartsheet ENGAGE'18. Brought to you by Smartsheet. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, I am Lisa Martin with Jeff Rick and Jeff and I have been live at Smartsheet Engage all day Jeff, we're in not Vegas. >> Not Vegas. >> Bellevue, Washington, this has been a really electric event. They keynote kicked off this morning standing room only, they have doubled in only their second year they have about 2,000 attendees, 1,100 customer companies represented here, they had customers from 20 countries, they more than 50% female attendees for the second year in a row, but we've heard such great groundswell stories all day. >> Yeah, it's been a good day, Lisa. You know, there's a little bit of confusion in this space, I think there's a lot of tools around workplace productivity, we got to hear from a couple analysts and how they're reshaping the way that they define those tools and that's okay, and I get it, but there was no question about the three customers we had on and the passion that those three customers had, kind of old school shadow IT implementations, they brought the tool in from their prior work, plugged it in and are having tremendous success, even the last one, to the chagrin of the parent company that builds software to do the same thing, so there's really no substitute for that type of passion and you know, we've seen these kind of communities grow before, I remember early days at the ServiceNow, it kind of reminds me of that you know, a lot of passion, applause, applause at the new features which is is always an interesting one, so a really, really good day. >> And well, you talked about those three customers that we had on today, we had GE Renewable Energy which was our last guest, a woman from Sodexo, Sodexo is a massive, massive company and then we had a gentleman from the office of the CIO at PayPal. These are three massive companies and the interesting theme from each of them is that these were groundswell opportunities for Smartsheet to really go viral within these organizations and make massive business impact and it's interesting that it really, even from a sales perspective, when we talked to the V.P. of Strategic Accounts, this is not a top down sale, this is bottoms up. Even PayPal found it on their own and learned how to use Smartsheet from YouTube videos. >> I love that. >> That was fantastic. >> So I love, you know, everyone talks about the new way to work but what about the new workers, right? And both of those examples are really good. The PayPal one as great, office of the CIO and yet to figure it out they just watched YouTube videos which is how people learn things today, and they implemented it from that experience. They didn't call Smartsheet, they just put it in and it worked and then we just had GE on and his comment that he wanted something lightweight for his workers. Lightweight. Three click rule, he said he had a three click rule after we turned the cameras off and if he can't get it down to three clicks you got to go back to work and make the process a little bit simpler, so you know, these are real examples of real big companies implementing kind of at the departmental level where this is getting traction, and executing to drive differentiation. And that's pretty exciting regardless if you get confused about the messaging or this or that, those are real life examples. >> And there's nothing that's more validating, right? Than the voice of a customer who has used it and especially the voice of a customer who is not a developer, doesn't know what an API is or need to in their daily jobs. This is technology that was built from the ground up, back 12 years ago on the construct of a spreadsheet which so many people understand and they've really parlayed that you're comfortable here with these tools, there's going to be like, you were talking a lot about today very smart that you brought up, I've got so many apps open and I think Forrester said between 13 and 30 apps people have open every day, so you can't really compete for that mind share so in terms of differentiation we've heard from Smartsheet themselves that they collaborate with companies that you'd think would be their competition. >> Right. >> But they understand that how this is starting from this groundswell, they have to be able to collaborate, to integrate, to connect with Slack, Microsoft teams, Office365, CRM systems from Microsoft, Salesforce, because that's how the worker needs to see their information, and they're also giving users the ability to configure, I want to see this, my team might want to see something completely different, and we can do that while sharing the same information. >> Right, right. I think the thing that struck me as really the big competitive differentiator in this kind of, work-group management is the going outside your four walls. If you use Salesforce, if you use even G-Suite, every time I send you an email it says, Lisa's not in your G-Suite are you sure? Are you sure? Like, red flag, I'm doing something wrong, the fact that the Smartsheet licensing structure is set up that if I set up a project I can share it to people outside of my organization. They can participate in that project. A, it just makes a lot of sense 'cause more and more projects right? You've got contractors, you've got partners, you've got all these things. It's not just an isolated instance anymore but then, more importantly, for Smartsheet, it just gives exposure to the tool to a new group of people. So, I think that's a really key part of the story here, that again maybe count as under the covers in terms as some of the messaging, but a real key differentiator, we've seen this type of viral growth before. I used to work for an Atlassian Service Provider and Atlassian had a great, kind of, seed strategy. $10 for 10 licenses and the $10 goes for schools in Africa. Brilliant. Who doesn't want to pay 10 bucks to help such a worthy cause, and then to seed it in. And then people that had success with the tool, it goes with them. You know, we heard that here the last gentleman from GE used it at a prior company, brought it over, wanted a lightweight tool not a big ERP tool implemented, and now he's running, he said $100 million in assets more effectively than he could before. >> Exactly, but will you talk about in terms of that big differentiator, their ability to, if I'm a Smartsheet user and you're not, I can share something with you and we can collaborate. They've got, I think I read over the weekend, 650,000 active individual users, but they have about 3,000,000 people that are collaborators. And I think it was Mark Mader, the CEO, this morning, that shared with us. That's 40% of their business. They have a massive pipeline by just enabling this collaboration and the ability for a user who's paying license to share with a colleague that isn't. >> Right. And then this is always the small conferences, 2,000 people, still new, people are super passionate, it's not a big vendor show, it's not a big expo hall show, but people are super engaged and sharing information and you get that in kind of the early days of these conferences, which is a really neat thing to see and there's no substitute for passionate customers, at the end of the day that's all they can really hope for, and that's the validation you need to move forward. >> Absolutely and they had, I think, almost 50 customer speakers today and I know how incredibly difficult it is for a marketing team to find 10 customers. >> Yeah, you know that right? >> Right. To speak. >> To speak. >> Let alone what multiplier you need to have to get 50, four x? Maybe not here. It seems like these people that are users, PayPal, and Cisco, and Sodexo, and GE Renewable Energy, have found this on their own and are really kind of creating this virality that is, it was very infectious, contagious. >> Yeah. >> By the day. >> Which is amazing to me because there's, again, there's so many applications out there, and they don't all do the same thing and they all have pros and cons. But, to be able to find it to be able to deliver success and again another important piece at any rate in with those existing systems that already are in play. Mark was very clear, we're not expecting you to throw out the apps that you have, you may or may not be able to display some with Smartsheet, but we really want to work with them, right. We want to play together, not necessarily play separate. And again, you have to do that to be successful in 2018. >> And they're listening to their customers. They have to do that to be successful, that's driven by the customers, it's clear that, there's a push pull effect and it's going to vary based on the enterprise and their overall objectives, but their collaboration with customers to develop and prioritize all of the enhancements that people have been asking for for the last year since the first Engage was really, you felt that, you heard it. There was a lot of applause during the product announcement session this morning. They are listening, they're taking that feedback in and ultimately, what their VP of customer success talked about is they're driving change management and that is extremely difficult, culturally, to be able to do. >> It's people, right? I mean, they said it right out the top. Empower everyone to improve how they work, connect, innovate, and execute. I've said it time and time again, we do a lot of shows, I think that's a pretty straightforward path to give more people more data, the tools to manipulate the data and get the answers, and then most importantly, the authority and power to execute those decisions, especially when you're close to the customer. That's where good things happen. That's where the organization moves forward and you can't be centralized command and control everything 'cause it's moving way too fast. >> Right, right. >> Way too fast. >> Well, Jeff, I had a blast hosting with you all day today. Learned a lot, my perspective is really opened up about Smartsheet and what it is and how it can really drive a lot of transformation and accelerate digital transformation. >> I can't help but again go back to the line from Google Cloud, right? People want to move to judgment, less drudgery more judgment. That's what they're enabling here at Smartsheet and we're excited to be here and cover it and can't wait until next year. >> Awesome, thanks Jeff. Again, Lisa Martin with Jeff Rick. Thanks for watching our coverage of Smartsheet Engage 2018, from Bellevue Washington, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Bellevue, Washington it's theCUBE. Covering Smartsheet Engage '18. Brought to you by Smartsheet. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We are live at Smartsheet Engage 2018 in Bellevue, Washington. I am Lisa Martin with Jeff Frick, and we've had a great day talking with Smartsheet executives, analysts, users, and we're excited to welcome to theCube for the first time, Gurmeet Mangat, the site manager Wind Power Generation at GE Renewable Energy. Gurmeet, great to have you on the program. >> Thank you Lisa, thank you Jeff. I'm really happy to be here. >> So you're a user of Smartsheet, but you're also a renegade. So before we get into your renegade status, tell us a little bit about GE Renewable Energy and your role. You got a big role as site manager. What, 75 turbines across multiple locations? So let's talk about GE Renewable Energy and your role as site manager. >> Sure, no problem. So GE Renewable Energy. One of our missions statements is to unleash limitless energy. How we do that, we harness the power of the sun, the water, and the wind. So try to produce clean efficient energy to power countries, homes, businesses, whatever needs that powered energy. As a manager I manage, like you said three wind farms, three different customers. A very complex role to have. I'm coming right from not just operations, human resources, financials. So everything's required of someone like me to manage that business end to end. It's a challenge, at the same time I seek opportunity in a lot of what's going on and leveraging Smartsheet as one of the tools. It's something I've been using over the past year to optimize the business and run those turbines. >> So it's so funny because I would say GE turbine farms and GE engines are the most quoted, often referenced IOT devices in this next gen conversation about IOT and data and how much data they throw off of any other kind of product out there, and you're sitting right in the middle of it actually managing the real machines and managing the real data. >> Yeah, exactly. So I mean the, the machines themselves are highly automated. They're spinning out a lot of data and we've got great systems in place to manage that information. Make it transferrable, viewable to a lot of the people that need it. The opportunity is not necessarily in the equipment that GE manufactures but the back-end business that drives that manufacturing, that drives those services. That's where, again we leveraged Smartsheet over the last year to close a lot of data quality issues. We're ruling out and canceling a lot of the human error of the process steps that we're seeing in a lot of businesses today. We're really taking the initiative of managing our data, bringing us, making us actually competitive in the fourth industrial revolution. I mean I've had a strong believe that if you're not managing your data correctly today, you'll market yourself out of the business, you won't stay ahead of the game. So I think, like I was saying before the biggest opportunity right now is the back-end of the business. Smart GE does a great job at manufacturing and producing high quality products. I think there's huge opportunity in saving the back end and optimizing the process that runs that. >> When you say the back end, there's always a lot of conversation about you know going from reactive to predictive to prescriptive. Analytics, again everybody likes to talk about keeping the turbine up. Are you talking about those types of processes or is it more, you know how that energy is fed into the grid and more kind of the connection to the broader ecosystem, when you say back end? >> Let's talk about the proactive and reactive situation, 'cause that's really what we're trying to drive. >> Okay. >> There can be particular cases where a turbine could fail in the middle of winter, a high-wind season and the visibility's not great. So what we've done is we've taken Smartsheet. We've given our technicians a mobile application tool to collect data as they visit turbines. We're taking information within Smartsheet, we aggregate it, we quantify it, and now we're able to predict turbine behavior based on this information. A little bit faster than some of the tools that GE provides today. A perfect example is about a month ago we determined that a turbine needed a quarter of a million dollar repair before any GE tool told us that. That was simply because of giving our technicians a tool, which is a Smartsheet webform and telling us what happens everyday you visit that turbine. That goes into the background. We take the information, aggregate it into a dashboard viewings. That gives us a great visual control and visual aid of our business. >> That visibility-- >> I was going to say, is he collecting different data, or are you processing it in a different way with the tooling that you set up with Smartsheet that gives you that visibility? >> They are, so we are collecting different data. So GE gives us a lot of data on our turbine health efficiency, how it's operating. It might quantify the number of faults per megawatt hour and per (mumbles) it for us for example. But what we're creating with Smartsheet is we're creating our own organic KPIs I'll call them, some metrics that we are creating ourselves to try to drive different behavior. So when the techs go in, we talk about parts consumptions, for example. So if this part's been consumed 20 times over the last month, you've got to ask why. You know, why do you keep visiting this turbine to do that. So that visibility drives a different discussion now, so now we can engage with engineers with different type, different information. They might be able to say, "Okay, "you know what, you guys got some good data here. "We think you're right. "We should execute this repair." >> So, that example that you gave and give me the number again that working with Smartsheets your team was able to find a, what did you say, a $250 million? >> $250,000 repair. >> Thousand dollar repair. >> That's the cost of the repair, but it's a proactive repair versus reactive so now we're not facing a long wait time, finding a crane, bringing a crane on site, getting the paperwork in place to get the job done 'cause it's not an easy repair. >> But there's a very impressive snowball effect of the benefits back to the business. You've found it faster. You were able to get, you know the parts needed faster, repair it faster. Clearly that goes all the way back up the chain from a revenue perspective. >> Absolutely. >> But you, when I alluded to you earlier, this renegade status, you brought Smartsheet in from your previous job and you've said, "This has enabled us "to find something faster than "our brand of technology's product would have been "able to do." Talk to us about this conviction that you brought in and is it kind of becoming viral within GE Renewable Energy yet? >> Good question. It's becoming viral, a lot of people are listening now. So we've talked to GE digital VPs. I've talked to the ERP providers in Europe, what they're doing with GE. So we've essentially, I call it a success story. They're not going to adopt Smartsheet. They want to build their own enterprise solution but, the reason why I call it a success story is because I've changed the way that they are thinking today. >> That's huge. Cultural change? >> I've presented a solution to them. I've essentially told them, you need to give us something that works for us faster. If you do this, it gives managers capacity to improve your business, really develop people that are working underneath you, engage them, empower them, and move the business forward not on a typical five year plan that most businesses have in place. But it's a step change. >> Right, right. >> It takes you year over year and you're stepping every year to something new, and I think in today's day and age with how fast things are moving, you need that. >> And I'm curious to unpack a little bit on this example where you said you know, it's this failing part that was giving you a leading indicator that there was a bigger problem. So that was just kind of a different way to look at the solution, right? You're identifying kind of a stupid consumption pattern on a spare part that shouldn't happen as opposed to the core data that's coming off that machine and that's what gave you kind of the unique insights. Does that come from you? Does that come techs who are in the field and have kind of a sense of, "Maybe we should be looking at this, "maybe we should be looking at that." How do you start to empower people or where do some of these different kind of points of view that then can be backed up with data in the Smartsheet process come from? >> So, it's all techs. (clears throat) Coming into the job last year, I asked one of the techs, I said, "Why are you going to this turbine?" And the question why is such a powerful question to ask. They said, "We're going to fix this." So what happened last time? They had no idea. So I said, "There's no "information to support your visit today? "And you don't understand why you're going today." They said, "As a result of something that was not "done correctly before." So we fixed that part first. We started giving them the information upfront. We gave them a tool to collect the data. So now they are empowered to provide very direct feedback to myself as a manager and even to an engineering team, like in New York for example. Something technicians never felt empowered to do before. They are the driving factors for those data collection, the decision making. I definitely appreciate that by giving them feedback on a daily basis, that what you guys are doing is changing the way that we manage the business. It's a very driven culture change by the front line. It's not something that I'm pushing down. I'm asking them to help me push it upwards to the senior level. >> And they've got to love it. They've got to love thinking that they've actually got input as opposed to just being called to go out and fix things when it breaks. >> Exactly. They're driving their day. They can go to work in the morning. They can look at the whole personality of a turbine, what's outstanding, what was done last time and the conversations are very quick in the morning. It used to be a 7 o'clock startup. They're not driving out 'til eight, 8:30, nine o'clock by the time they get their stuff together. I mean we're averaging a seven am to about 7:30 departure now. >> So each person is saving 60 to 90 minutes everyday. >> Every day now departure. >> That's a big roll up. In fact, I was looking at some of the productivity stats that Smartsheet talks about on their website and they say an average per, individual user of Smartsheet will save about 300 hours a year. An organization can save up to 60,000 hours a year. >> I believe that. That's believable. I mean there's, just a technical aspect of managing a turbine. If we even talk about you know issuing a purchase order. Managing contractor labor, invoices. The tool that we're using today is a complete end to end P & L management tool. So it takes invoicing from subcontractors, labor. We are inventory tracking, we are tracking any health and safety issues. Everything from end to end, so it's really done a great job for us. >> That's all built within your Smartsheet? >> Correct. >> Wow. >> And it's all mobile, so. I mean I'm not at my site this week, but on a daily basis I have visibility to my business. You're talking about 70, 80 plus machines, that's over you know about a hundred million dollars in assets that have to be managed effectively, efficiently, and correctly. >> You have visibility into everyday from wherever you are? >> Exactly, yes. >> That's a huge transformation. So we talked about you being a renegade and other groups within GE on divisions that are curious about this. I'm curious, have you heard anything today that they have announced that excites you, or maybe was any of this part of a feedback that you provided, as we've heard all day Jeff that they're very responsive to customer feedback in terms of product innovation. Anything you're going to go back to the office and be excited, like the next generation or what's coming available soon? Is it going to enable me to do X-Y-Z now? >> That's a good question. So GE is a very tough company to change. There will be a lot of takeaways from this trip and when I go head back. After the last conversation I had with GE digital and the team, they are going to hire a new resource and set budget aside to help close the gaps that we've identified. So I think after this visit and some of the things I've learned throughout the conference and when I head back I'll only be able to identify a few more gaps that they need to fill, and I'll push that up to them probably in the next week when I get back there and hopefully they can appreciate that candid feedback and take that and run with it. >> But you were able to fund your existing project just out of your own discretionary funds? >> Exactly. I mean that's one of the benefits of Smartsheet. It costs really nothing to create something, and my job is to manage wind farms, so I've taken initiative to create, I call it a mini-ERP system using Smartsheet with an associate of mine, and it's an organic creation. It didn't take us, I mean to run three wind farms, I started last April, it probably took us less than six months to create a working system. That's awesome feedback for Smartsheet, their tools are very user-friendly. It's lightweight, it takes away the fear of coding that Excel gives to some people. If you're a new user of any application you can kind of walk into it and run with it. That's one of the reasons why we took it from nothing to something in such a short period of time. >> Wow. >> That's a ground swell in action that has some significant results. But you'd better be careful. I'm imagining your success is going to go so viral, you're going to have way more than 75 turbines and three wind farms >> That's possible. >> to manage. (laughs) >> There's been a recent acquisition and there's other sites around me that my boss is, or my directors said, "Hey, what are you doing next week?" >> Oh! (laughs) >> "Let's go visit this site for a few minutes." Okay, I know what you're getting at. >> Kind of a good problem to have, but thanks so much for stopping by and sharing with us what you're doing as a renegade. It seems pretty contagious. >> Appreciate it, thank you for having me. >> Thanks. >> Thanks. >> For Jeff Frick I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE live from Smartsheet Engage 2018. Stick around, Jeff and I will be back to wrap up the show in just a minute. (digital music)

>> Live from Bellevue, Washington it's theCUBE covering SmartSheet ENGAGE '18. Brought to you by SmartSheet. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, we are continuing our coverage live from Bellevue, Washington. We're at SmartSheet ENGAGE 2018. I'm with Jeff Frick here. This is the second annual ENGAGE event. Huge, doubled from last year. We've had a great day so far, Jeff, of execs from ShartSheet, customers. We're now excited to welcome an analyst from the 451 Group, Chris Marsh, the Research Director for WorkFresh Productivity and Compliance; welcome to theCUBE! >> Thank you very much. >> So we have, as I was saying, this is the second annual event, some of the stats that Mark Mader, our CEO, shared in the keynote this morning, there are over 1100 companies represented here at the event, a couple thousand people, 20 countries. We've had some very enthusiastic SmartSheet customers, SmartSheeters themselves talking about this tool that's designed for the business user, that's not designed for the citizen developer, people that don't even need to know what API stands for. So talk to us about your role at 451, but then we'll kind of get into project management, program management, and some of the trends and the changes that you're seeing there. >> Sure, yeah, so, so I've had the workforce productivity compliance research practice in 451, so as a team of analysts, we cover, essentially, productivity software, right? So the different tools that members of the workforce are using to get work done. So in addition to work management companies like SmartSheet, we also look at collaboration tools, digital workspaces, we cover the content management landscape, and we cover content creation, asset creation tools as well, so, really the focus for my team is to give perspectives on how the future of work is evolving, but really what those technology and dependings of that are. >> Such a busy space. You've picked a good area to specialize in. So how should people think of it? How should they categorize it, because from the outside looking in, a lot of the tools are very similar, you know, there's some overlap, some not overlap, there's some places where they can work together. Ya know, how should leaders be thinking about approaching this opportunity, 'cos you talk a lot about, you know, that's a great place to find untapped competitive advantage, but it seems to be very, kind of, confusing to the outsider. >> Yeah, it's a super interesting space, and it's probably more interesting than it's ever been. I think for many of us, it was, to be frank, kind of not interesting, right? There's lots of kind of legacy tools that people were struggling to figure out how to do new kinds of work with. >> Beyond email! (chuckles) >> Exactly, yeah, yeah. >> Was there anything beyond email 10 years ago? Yikes! >> Exactly, I mean we as a, I think, a research team find ourselves looking as much of intersections of those five areas that we cover as much as we go deep in them, for the very fact that, you know, it's a space that's going through a lot of innovation, a lot of disruption, and vendors and segments are learning from one another. Then, of course, we have, you know, broad, kind of transversal trends brought by technologies like AI and machine learning. Beginning to have more conversations around things like Block Chain, people beginning to talk about what may be some of the use cases are around AR, VR, and the kind of mixed-reality type technologies. So, you know, lots of innovation, lots of disruption. Um, in terms of what business leaders should be looking for, it obviously depends on what they're trying to do in their workforce. I think one of the big shifts that we're seeing is, um, you know, the sort of decentralization of ownership over more complex types of work to business users, right, whereas, I think, in a lot of companies, traditionally there are centralized teams of process specialists or project management folks, and, you know, tools have kind of mediated the relationship between those centralized, you know, teams and business users; where increasingly those tools are appealing to those business users. So in the panel moderation I did this morning, I showed some statistics around, you know, users of tools like SmartSheet, and it's not the type of people we would have seen using this type of tool four or five years ago. It's leaders were then legal teams, finance teams, HR teams, marketing teams, operations teams-- so that's sort of reflective of a broad shift in productivity software of, you know, virality in terms of how these tools enter businesses, right? Lots of organic adoption and it kind of runs contrary to how a lot of enterprise technology gets sold into enterprises, which is gone a little bit more top down or into specific buying centers. Increasingly, it's going in sort of the grass roots. People are finding new use cases for technology, and it sort of spreads from there, so, yeah, it's a super hot space right now. >> So one of the things we talk about is every place we go, right? Digital transformation and innovation, everybody wants more. And it seems pretty simple to say, but hard to do, that if you get more people more data, the tools to process it, and then the power to do something, that that just can unlock a tremendous amount of untapped innovation and execution and efficiency out of a company. That said, that's easier said sitting here than done. So are you seeing, you know, kind of a continual trend towards, you know, pushing down the data, pushing down the tools, and pushing down the authority to execute decisions? >> Yeah, I think so. And actually, the work management space is a very good example of that, right? So, um, you know, for some companies culturally that's not going to come very easy, because they just culturally may have a more sort of top-down kind of culture. But I think digital transformation for everyone, essentially means more agility, more speed, you know, more quickness in how work is executed and how it's designed. And that almost inevitably means that those closest to the delivery of the work are the ones that actually have the power to design the work in the first place and can, rather than sort of relying on IT for everything and/or central teams somewhere. So, it is a broad shift, but again, it comes, to your point, it comes more easily for some companies and some industries than others. >> And we talked about that with a number of the people from SmartSheet as well as users, that this is a massive cultural shift. I think Mark Mader, the CEO, this morning was telling us a quick anecdote of a 125-year-old oil and gas company, >> Yeah. >> That is, talk about, you know, probably really married to a lot of legacy processes and ways of thinking, not just tools, and how SmartSheet probably started in, you know, one function within the organization, probably, you know, quite low, and it started, to your point before, go viral, and we started, we started to hear a number of stories from PayPal, Sodexo, how this virality that you talk about is really kind of transforming from the bottom up. But that cultural change is essential. >> The cultural change is essential, I mean, in some cases it's just being led by the fact that that's happening anyway, right? Because, you know, gone are the days when IT chooses the tools, provisions them, and, you know, there's an awareness of what's going on in the environment. There are, and it's not just the work management space, we also look at sort of, workflow automation tools. A lot of these tools are, you know, going into a company grass roots, there are then potentially hundreds if not thousands of work processes or workflows that are created on these tools before IT even figures that out, right? Which is not necessarily an ideal scenario, but it's increasingly, you know, one of the patterns that we're seeing in enterprises, so. It's a big cultural shift, but um, there's a certain amount of push and pull here. Some companies that realize that are looking proactively to give effect to it. Other people are going to be pulled, to be frank, to the fact that there are tools that enable new kind of work patterns, new styles to happen, and they almost have to get on board with that, so. So obviously you want to strike a balance, I think, somewhere in between of being the catalyst for those kind of new things to happen whilst making sure there is still the kind of centralized oversight that's required for you to maintain control over your overall technology estate, but also so that you can make sure the technologies are aligning to your strategic goals. So it's a delicate balance. >> And there's these pretty big forces at play here. There's a term that 451 Group has recently coined called a liquid enterprise. >> That's right, yeah. >> Liquid; I think of fluidity, you mentioned agility, we've heard nimbleness today, um, talk to us. What, by definition, is the liquid enterprise, and how are you helping customers to embrace it and maybe not fight the force, because the forces of pull are stronger and better; but what does that mean? >> Yeah, so liquid enterprise, I mean, you've encapsulated it very well, right? So it's all about, you know, when we speak of digital transformation, you almost always end up to about business agility. So in some ways, liquid enterprise is just our way of giving a little bit more flavor to what business agility looks like in the kind of digital age. So our kind of view is that, you know, a lot of the companies that we kind of laud now as those really interesting companies like the AirBnB's and the Uber's, those with kind of, massively scalable infrastructure and then a very simple UI. We think that whole pattern of what the, kind of, digital enterprise will look like is one that's much more able to fluidly marshal it's different resources in a way that allows them to respond much more rapidly to changes in their own market conditions, right? Because one of the things, obviously, that digital is doing is changing user behavior to user requirement. So your ability, as a company, to respond very quickly to that is becoming, you know, a primacy in most companies, and a big part of how we think about the liquid enterprise is the fact that companies will actually be able to change their own organizational structure. Not just what they offer to a market, not just the tools that enable them to do that, but actually, they'll begin to sort of re-tesselate their own organizational design, to enable that to happen. So, you know, we see early indicators of technologies that are beginning to allow companies to think in that way. I think for most companies, liquid enterprise is aspirational right now, but I think, certainly, it's a pattern a lot of companies are trying to tact towards. >> So, I'm just curious, you talk about culture as a competitive advantage. And how much of these tools are culture enablers to make that possible? How much of it are just critical, because if you don't have that culture you're going to lose? How much of it is tied to, kind of, the consumerization of IT, where again, your workforce has an expectation of the way apps work based on their interaction with Amazon and their interaction with Google and those types of things? >> Very much driven by the consumerization of IT trend. I mean, often, increasingly what we see happen in the consumer realm ends up happening in some kind of expression in the enterprise realm sooner or later. So, yeah, that's very much it. One of the other things we talk about in our research is the kind of hierarchy of employee motivation, right? So we kind of have this way of thinking about, you know, what companies need to do and what technologies need to enable to really satisfy that end user experience. I think in the productivity software space, you know, it's probably not hyperbolic to say that most tools really only satisfy end users, right? We have lots of tools, including lots of modern SAAS tools, that actually, you know, may have good usability, but aren't particularly flexible. There sort of better, more scalable versions of a lot of legacy tools. So we see this kind of passage towards tools actually doing things like, you know, decentralizing the ability to create workflows, so that, you know, business users, including non-managerial folks, can actually design work, and how that work actually happens, right? So there's a big element there in terms of motivation in your role, you know, actually making an impact, having that recognized and all of those kinds of things, which is driving a more, sort of, engaged relationship between people and technology, so we only see that continuing. And, the work management space in SmartSheet's very good examples of that. There's lots of conversations you can hear and engage where people are discussing, you know, what they're doing with their tool that they created themselves, some kind of local business team that has redesigned a certain process that is allowed better business value to be created; and they're the ones that are going to take credit for that. I think that trend is only going to accelerate. So again, from an enterprise perspective, embracing that, helping catalyze that, but again, having the ability to have central oversight over that kind of local team-based execution, it is obviously very important. >> What about just kind of the competition from my desktop? You know, what apps are open while I'm working all day, and you know, we all wish if you're driving an app company that it's your app that is on top, but the reality is many, many apps open all the time. So do you see that evolving, do you see that aggregating, do you see a couple of kind of uber apps over the top of these integrations that you'll be doing your primary workplace, or is it just kind of horses for courses depending on the types of things that you do in your day-to-day job? >> Really good question, I mean, I think one of the background trends we've seen, especially with SAAS, is just the growth and the overall enterprise application estate. Right, so just more apps. And obviously catalyzed also by end users having positive experiences in consumer apps, and then being used to choosing the way that they do things, like that, that is transitioning into the enterprise environment, as well, so. I don't envisage that the total number of apps is going to decrease, but very good question as to, you know, whether we get consolidation. Time will tell, but I think, you know, to my point earlier, we spend a lot of time looking at intersections that cross existing segments, because, each segment is really transforming. And you see lots of examples of customers here at ENGAGE using SmartSheet as a displacement tool for other ones that they previously were using. They find the automation of SmartSheet a way to sort of disintermediate other tools that they were using. We're certainly seeing some of that, whether that means the total number of applications decreases, I don't know, because we're still yet to see play out lots of cool, new, innovative technologies that will obviously give rise to new kinds of applications. Question is out as to whether it will mean further apps, but we certainly seeing a changing in the, in the sort of preference for tools based on what new ones we're enabling. >> And I would imagine in very short order, the application of AI and machine learning behind the scenes in all these apps, is also going to change the UI experience dramatically, as more and more and more of the processes are automated on the back-end, there's more kind of smart suggestions as to what to do or completely automated processes. So even the face of the most popular apps today, I would imagine you see significant change with the application of AI and machine learning. >> Yeah, I would think so. One of the, sort of, big trends here, listening to customers and listening to some of the key notes, is, you know, the shift that comes with companies trying to make from low value work to high value work, so all of that kind of granular and manual work we're having to do is so most existing applications; people just want to abstract their way. They don't want to be doing that anymore, they want to be focusing on, um, sort of resource management, team coordination, creative ideation, they want to focus on strategy execution, they want to focus on things like, you know, risks to the business, actions that they need to take, decisions that they need to make, they don't want to be doing the whole, um, who did this, when did they do it, what do I need to do now, they don't want to be sort of manually moving information from applications, they don't want to be doing sort of manual reconciliations of data, and that kind of thing. >> Right. >> So um, heh, so yeah, the kind of low value to high value work is only going to be accelerated by AI and ML, to the point where we're beginning to see much more contextual work. So the ML is the basis on which work can be surfaced contextually to end users. So that is sort of automating the abstraction of that low value work, and that's hugely exciting, because that offers a whole new paradigm for how we interact with applications, what that end user experience is. Imagine, you know, sort of going into your office loading up your computer, opening up an application, and it surfaces to you what you need to focus on that day. >> Right. >> That's where a lot of productivity application vendors are trying to get to. >> That's the dream, right there. >> Not here is the application, you decide where you need to focus, it's the kind of, these are the things you really need to put your time in. I mean, that's pretty exciting. And that's what a lot of the companies would want. >> Well even, a certain CRN company that's got a large tower in San Francisco, why do I have to put the city and the state and the zip code, I mean, we have so far to go, can't I just put the zip code in and it fills in the city and the state, and those little, you know, simple things that take a lot of time and these are the kind of data entry tasks that just drive people bananas, and discount the value, the fundamental value of the tool, because you just get stuck in a data entry mode, or a double entry mode. It's this crazy opportunity that we still have in front of us to make improvements. >> Yeah, I think, huge opportunity, obviously. But it's not quite so easy as that, I think, really it's kind of how I would talk about it. You know, AI and ML will inevitably have a transformative impact on enterprise software; I don't think anybody would dispute that. But it does rely on large data sects, against which you have to train your algorithms and your models, and that takes time for individual companies to build that data sect. They need enough work in there, they need enough people, enough workflows in there, to generate those data sects so that they will actually be useful, right? So, it's going to take a bit of time to play out. But yeah, it's going to be very impactful in the longer term. >> Well Chris, thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE and sharing your insights on this new, emerging term of the liquid enterprise, we appreciate that. >> Pleasure, thanks very much. >> For Jeff Frick, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live from SmartSheet ENGAGE 2018. Stick around, Jeff and I will be right back with our next guest. (electronic music)