hi everybody welcome back to re invent 2022. this is thecube's exclusive coverage we're here at the satellite set it's up on the fifth floor of the Venetian Conference Center and this is part of the global startup program the AWS startup showcase series that we've been running all through last year and and into this year with AWS and featuring some of its its Global Partners Ed wallson series the CEO of chaos search many times Cube Alum and Kevin Miller there's also a cube Alum vice president GM of S3 at AWS guys good to see you again yeah great to see you Dave hi Kevin this is we call this our Super Bowl so this must be like your I don't know uh World Cup it's a pretty big event yeah it's the World Cup for sure yeah so a lot of S3 talk you know I mean that's what got us all started in 2006 so absolutely what's new in S3 yeah it's been a great show we've had a number of really interesting launches over the last few weeks and a few at the show as well so you know we've been really focused on helping customers that are running Mass scale data Lakes including you know whether it's structured or unstructured data we actually announced just a few just an hour ago I think it was a new capability to give customers cross-account access points for sharing data securely with other parts of the organization and that's something that we'd heard from customers is as they are growing and have more data sets and they're looking to to get more out of their data they are increasingly looking to enable multiple teams across their businesses to access those data sets securely and that's what we provide with cross-count access points we also launched yesterday our multi-region access point failover capabilities and so again this is where customers have data sets and they're using multiple regions for certain critical workloads they're now able to to use that to fail to control the failover between different regions in AWS and then one other launch I would just highlight is some improvements we made to storage lens which is our really a very novel and you need capability to help customers really understand what storage they have where who's accessing it when it's being accessed and we added a bunch of new metrics storage lens has been pretty exciting for a lot of customers in fact we looked at the data and saw that customers who have adopted storage lens typically within six months they saved more than six times what they had invested in turning storage lens on and certainly in this environment right now we have a lot of customers who are it's pretty top of mind they're looking for ways to optimize their their costs in the cloud and take some of those savings and be able to reinvest them in new innovation so pretty exciting with the storage lens launch I think what's interesting about S3 is that you know pre-cloud Object Store was this kind of a niche right and then of course you guys announced you know S3 in 2006 as I said and okay great you know cheap and deep storage simple get put now the conversations about how to enable value from from data absolutely analytics and it's just a whole new world and Ed you've talked many times I love the term yeah we built chaos search on the on the shoulders of giants right and so the under underlying that is S3 but the value that you can build on top of that has been key and I don't think we've talked about his shoulders and Giants but we've talked about how we literally you know we have a big Vision right so hard to kind of solve the challenge to analytics at scale we really focus on the you know the you know Big Data coming environment get analytics so we talk about the on the shoulders Giants obviously Isaac Newton's you know metaphor of I learned from everything before and we layer on top so really when you talk about all the things come from S3 like I just smile because like we picked it up naturally we went all in an S3 and this is where I think you're going Dave but everyone is so let's just cut the chase like so any of the data platforms you're using S3 is what you're building but we did it a little bit differently so at first people using a cold storage like you said and then they ETL it up into a different platforms for analytics of different sorts now people are using it closer they're doing caching layers and cashing out and they're that's where but that's where the attributes of a scale or reliability are what we did is we actually make S3 a database so literally we have no persistence outside that three and that kind of comes in so it's working really well with clients because most of the thing is we pick up all these attributes of scale reliability and it shows up in the clients environments and so when you launch all these new scalable things we just see it like our clients constantly comment like one of our biggest customers fintech in uh Europe they go to Black Friday again black Friday's not one days and they lose scale from what is it 58 terabytes a day and they're going up to 187 terabytes a day and we don't Flinch they say how do you do that well we built our platform on S3 as long as you can stream it to S3 so they're saying I can't overrun S3 and it's a natural play so it's it's really nice that but we take out those attributes but same thing that's why we're able to you know help clients get you know really you know Equifax is a good example maybe they're able to consolidate 12 their divisions on one platform we couldn't have done that without the scale and the performance of what you can get S3 but also they saved 90 I'm able to do that but that's really because the only persistence is S3 and what you guys are delivering but and then we really for focus on shoulders Giants we're doing on top of that innovating on top of your platforms and bringing that out so things like you know we have a unique data representation that makes it easy to ingest this data because it's kind of coming at you four v's of big data we allow you to do that make it performant on s3h so now you're doing hot analytics on S3 as if it's just a native database in memory but there's no memory SSC caching and then multi-model once you get it there don't move it leverage it in place so you know elasticsearch access you know Cabana grafana access or SQL access with your tools so we're seeing that constantly but we always talk about on the shoulders of giants but even this week I get comments from our customers like how did you do that and most of it is because we built on top of what you guys provided so it's really working out pretty well and you know we talk a lot about digital transformation of course we had the pleasure sitting down with Adam solipski prior John Furrier flew to Seattle sits down his annual one-on-one with the AWS CEO which is kind of cool yeah it was it's good it's like study for the test you know and uh and so but but one of the interesting things he said was you know we're one of our challenges going forward is is how do we go Beyond digital transformation into business transformation like okay well that's that's interesting I was talking to a customer today AWS customer and obviously others because they're 100 year old company and they're basically their business was they call them like the Uber for for servicing appliances when your Appliance breaks you got to get a person to serve it a service if it's out of warranty you know these guys do that so they got to basically have a you know a network of technicians yeah and they gotta deal with the customers no phone right so they had a completely you know that was a business transformation right they're becoming you know everybody says they're coming a software company but they're building it of course yeah right on the cloud so wonder if you guys could each talk about what's what you're seeing in terms of changing not only in the sort of I.T and the digital transformation but also the business transformation yeah I know I I 100 agree that I think business transformation is probably that one of the top themes I'm hearing from customers of all sizes right now even in this environment I think customers are looking for what can I do to drive top line or you know improve bottom line or just improve my customer experience and really you know sort of have that effect where I'm helping customers get more done and you know it is it is very tricky because to do that successfully the customers that are doing that successfully I think are really getting into the lines of businesses and figuring out you know it's probably a different skill set possibly a different culture different norms and practices and process and so it's it's a lot more than just a like you said a lot more than just the technology involved but when it you know we sort of liquidate it down into the data that's where absolutely we see that as a critical function for lines of businesses to become more comfortable first off knowing what data sets they have what data they they could access but possibly aren't today and then starting to tap into those data sources and then as as that progresses figuring out how to share and collaborate with data sets across a company to you know to correlate across those data sets and and drive more insights and then as all that's being done of course it's important to measure the results and be able to really see is this what what effect is this having and proving that effect and certainly I've seen plenty of customers be able to show you know this is a percentage increase in top or bottom line and uh so that pattern is playing out a lot and actually a lot of how we think about where we're going with S3 is related to how do we make it easier for customers to to do everything that I just described to have to understand what data they have to make it accessible and you know it's great to have such a great ecosystem of partners that are then building on top of that and innovating to help customers connect really directly with the businesses that they're running and driving those insights well and customers are hours today one of the things I loved that Adam said he said where Amazon is strategically very very patient but tactically we're really impatient and the customers out there like how are you going to help me increase Revenue how are you going to help me cut costs you know we were talking about how off off camera how you know software can actually help do that yeah it's deflationary I love the quote right so software's deflationary as costs come up how do you go drive it also free up the team and you nail it it's like okay everyone wants to save money but they're not putting off these projects in fact the digital transformation or the business it's actually moving forward but they're getting a little bit bigger but everyone's looking for creative ways to look at their architecture and it becomes larger larger we talked about a couple of those examples but like even like uh things like observability they want to give this tool set this data to all the developers all their sres same data to all the security team and then to do that they need to find a way an architect should do that scale and save money simultaneously so we see constantly people who are pairing us up with some of these larger firms like uh or like keep your data dog keep your Splunk use us to reduce the cost that one and one is actually cheaper than what you have but then they use it either to save money we're saving 50 to 80 hard dollars but more importantly to free up your team from the toil and then they they turn around and make that budget neutral and then allowed to get the same tools to more people across the org because they're sometimes constrained of getting the access to everyone explain that a little bit more let's say I got a Splunk or data dog I'm sifting through you know logs how exactly do you help so it's pretty simple I'll use dad dog example so let's say using data dog preservability so it's just your developers your sres managing environments all these platforms are really good at being a monitoring alerting type of tool what they're not necessarily great at is keeping the data for longer periods like the log data the bigger data that's where we're strong what you see is like a data dog let's say you're using it for a minister for to keep 30 days of logs which is not enough like let's say you're running environment you're finding that performance issue you kind of want to look to last quarter in last month in or maybe last Black Friday so 30 days is not enough but will charge you two eighty two dollars and eighty cents a gigabyte don't focus on just 280 and then if you just turn the knob and keep seven days but keep two years of data on us which is on S3 it goes down to 22 cents plus our list price of 80 cents goes to a dollar two compared to 280. so here's the thing what they're able to do is just turn a knob get more data we do an integration so you can go right from data dog or grafana directly into our platform so the user doesn't see it but they save money A lot of times they don't just save the money now they use that to go fund and get data dog to a lot more people make sense so it's a creativity they're looking at it and they're looking at tools we see the same thing with a grafana if you look at the whole grafana play which is hey you can't put it in one place but put Prometheus for metrics or traces we fit well with logs but they're using that to bring down their costs because a lot of this data just really bogs down these applications the alerting monitoring are good at small data they're not good at the big data which is what we're really good at and then the one and one is actually less than you paid for the one so it and it works pretty well so things are really unpredictable right now in the economy you know during the pandemic we've sort of lockdown and then the stock market went crazy we're like okay it's going to end it's going to end and then it looked like it was going to end and then it you know but last year it reinvented just just in that sweet spot before Omicron so we we tucked it in which which was awesome right it was a great great event we really really missed one physical reinvent you know which was very rare so that's cool but I've called it the slingshot economy it feels like you know you're driving down the highway and you got to hit the brakes and then all of a sudden you're going okay we're through it Oh no you're gonna hit the brakes again yeah so it's very very hard to predict and I was listening to jassy this morning he was talking about yeah consumers they're still spending but what they're doing is they're they're shopping for more features they might be you know buying a TV that's less expensive you know more value for the money so okay so hopefully the consumer spending will get us out of this but you don't really know you know and I don't yeah you know we don't seem to have the algorithms we've never been through something like this before so what are you guys seeing in terms of customer Behavior given that uncertainty well one thing I would highlight that I think particularly going back to what we were just talking about as far as business and digital transformation I think some customers are still appreciating the fact that where you know yesterday you may have had to to buy some Capital put out some capital and commit to something for a large upfront expenditure is that you know today the value of being able to experiment and scale up and then most importantly scale down and dynamically based on is the experiment working out am I seeing real value from it and doing that on a time scale of a day or a week or a few months that is so important right now because again it gets to I am looking for a ways to innovate and to drive Top Line growth but I I can't commit to a multi-year sort of uh set of costs to to do that so and I think plenty of customers are finding that even a few months of experimentation gives them some really valuable insight as far as is this going to be successful or not and so I think that again just of course with S3 and storage from day one we've been elastic pay for what you use if you're not using the storage you don't get charged for it and I think that particularly right now having the applications and the rest of the ecosystem around the storage and the data be able to scale up and scale down is is just ever more important and when people see that like typically they're looking to do more with it so if they find you usually find these little Department projects but they see a way to actually move faster and save money I think it is a mix of those two they're looking to expand it which can be a nightmare for sales Cycles because they take longer but people are looking well why don't you leverage this and go across division so we do see people trying to leverage it because they're still I don't think digital transformation is slowing down but a lot more to be honest a lot more approvals at this point for everything it is you know Adam and another great quote in his in his keynote he said if you want to save money the Cloud's a place to do it absolutely and I read an article recently and I was looking through and I said this is the first time you know AWS has ever seen a downturn because the cloud was too early back then I'm like you weren't paying attention in 2008 because that was the first major inflection point for cloud adoption where CFO said okay stop the capex we're going to Opex and you saw the cloud take off and then 2010 started this you know amazing cycle that we really haven't seen anything like it where they were doubling down in Investments and they were real hardcore investment it wasn't like 1998 99 was all just going out the door for no clear reason yeah so that Foundation is now in place and I think it makes a lot of sense and it could be here for for a while where people are saying Hey I want to optimize and I'm going to do that on the cloud yeah no I mean I've obviously I certainly agree with Adam's quote I think really that's been in aws's DNA from from day one right is that ability to scale costs with with the actual consumption and paying for what you use and I think that you know certainly moments like now are ones that can really motivate change in an organization in a way that might not have been as palatable when it just it didn't feel like it was as necessary yeah all right we got to go give you a last word uh I think it's been a great event I love all your announcements I think this is wonderful uh it's been a great show I love uh in fact how many people are here at reinvent north of 50 000. yeah I mean I feel like it was it's as big if not bigger than 2019. people have said ah 2019 was a record when you count out all the professors I don't know it feels it feels as big if not bigger so there's great energy yeah it's quite amazing and uh and we're thrilled to be part of it guys thanks for coming on thecube again really appreciate it face to face all right thank you for watching this is Dave vellante for the cube your leader in Enterprise and emerging Tech coverage we'll be right back foreign

(upbeat music) >> Hey, everyone, welcome back to Las Vegas, "theCube" is on our fourth day of covering AWS re:Invent, live from the Venetian Expo Center. This week has been amazing. We've created a ton of content, as you know, 'cause you've been watching. But, there's been north of 55,000 people here, hundreds of thousands online. We've had amazing conversations across the AWS ecosystem. Lisa Martin, Paul Gillan. Paul, what's your, kind of, take on day four of the conference? It's still highly packed. >> Oh, there's lots of people here. (laughs) >> Yep. Unusual for the final day of a conference. I think Werner Vogels, if I'm pronouncing it right kicked things off today when he talked about asymmetry and how the world is, you know, asymmetric. We build symmetric software, because it's convenient to do so, but asymmetric software actually scales and evolves much better. And I think that that was a conversation starter for a lot of what people are talking about here today, which is how the cloud changes the way we think about building software. >> Absolutely does. >> Our next guest, Holger Mueller, that's one of his key areas of focus. And Holger, welcome, thanks for joining us on the "theCube". >> Thanks for having me. >> What did you take away from the keynote this morning? >> Well, how do you feel on the final day of the marathon, right? We're like 23, 24 miles. Hit the ball yesterday, right? >> We are going strong Holger. And, of course, >> Yeah. >> you guys, we can either talk about business transformation with cloud or the World Cup. >> Or we can do both. >> The World Cup, hands down. World Cup. (Lisa laughs) Germany's out, I'm unbiased now. They just got eliminated. >> Spain is out now. >> What will the U.S. do against Netherlands tomorrow? >> They're going to win. What's your forecast? U.S. will win? >> They're going to win 2 to 1. >> What do you say, 2:1? >> I'm optimistic, but realistic. >> 3? >> I think Netherlands. >> Netherlands will win? >> 2 to nothing. >> Okay, I'll vote for the U.S.. >> Okay, okay >> 3:1 for the U.S.. >> Be optimistic. >> Root for the U.S.. >> Okay, I like that. >> Hope for the best wherever you work. >> Tomorrow you'll see how much soccer experts we are. >> If your prediction was right. (laughs) >> (laughs) Ja, ja. Or yours was right, right, so. Cool, no, but the event, I think the event is great to have 50,000 people. Biggest event of the year again, right? Not yet the 70,000 we had in 2019. But it's great to have the energy. I've never seen the show floor going all the way down like this, right? >> I haven't either. >> I've never seen that. I think it's a record. Often vendors get the space here and they have the keynote area, and the entertainment area, >> Yeah. >> and the food area, and then there's an exposition, right? This is packed. >> It's packed. >> Maybe it'll pay off. >> You don't see the big empty booths that you often see. >> Oh no. >> Exactly, exactly. You know, the white spaces and so on. >> No. >> Right. >> Which is a good thing. >> There's lots of energy, which is great. And today's, of course, the developer day, like you said before, right now Vogels' a rockstar in the developer community, right. Revered visionary on what has been built, right? And he's becoming a little professorial is my feeling, right. He had these moments before too, when it was justifying how AWS moved off the Oracle database about the importance of data warehouses and structures and why DynamoDB is better and so on. But, he had a large part of this too, and this coming right across the keynotes, right? Adam Selipsky talking about Antarctica, right? Scott against almonds and what went wrong. He didn't tell us, by the way, which often the tech winners forget. Scott banked on technology. He had motorized sleds, which failed after three miles. So, that's not the story to tell the technology. Let everything down. Everybody went back to ponies and horses and dogs. >> Maybe goes back to these asynchronous behavior. >> Yeah. >> The way of nature. >> And, yesterday, Swami talking about the bridges, right? The root bridges, right? >> Right. >> So, how could Werner pick up with his video at the beginning. >> Yeah. >> And then talk about space and other things? So I think it's important to educate about event-based architecture, right? And we see this massive transformation. Modern software has to be event based, right? Because, that's how things work and we didn't think like this before. I see this massive transformation in my other research area in other platforms about the HR space, where payrolls are being rebuilt completely. And payroll used to be one of the three peaks of ERP, right? You would size your ERP machine before the cloud to financial close, to run the payroll, and to do an MRP manufacturing run if you're manufacturing. God forbid you run those three at the same time. Your machine wouldn't be able to do that, right? So it was like start the engine, start the boosters, we are running payroll. And now the modern payroll designs like you see from ADP or from Ceridian, they're taking every payroll relevant event. You check in time wise, right? You go overtime, you take a day of vacation and right away they trigger and run the payroll, so it's up to date for you, up to date for you, which, in this economy, is super important, because we have more gig workers, we have more contractors, we have employees who are leaving suddenly, right? The great resignation, which is happening. So, from that perspective, it's the modern way of building software. So it's great to see Werner showing that. The dirty little secrets though is that is more efficient software for the cloud platform vendor too. Takes less resources, gets less committed things, so it's a much more scalable architecture. You can move the events, you can work asynchronously much better. And the biggest showcase, right? What's the biggest transactional showcase for an eventually consistent asynchronous transactional application? I know it's a mouthful, but we at Amazon, AWS, Amazon, right? You buy something on Amazon they tell you it's going to come tomorrow. >> Yep. >> They don't know it's going to come tomorrow by that time, because it's not transactionally consistent, right? We're just making every ERP vendor, who lives in transactional work, having nightmares of course, (Lisa laughs) but for them it's like, yes we have the delivery to promise, a promise to do that, right? But they come back to you and say, "Sorry, we couldn't make it, delivery didn't work and so on. It's going to be a new date. We are out of the product.", right? So these kind of event base asynchronous things are more and more what's going to scale around the world. It's going to be efficient for everybody, it's going to be better customer experience, better employee experience, ultimately better user experience, it's going to be better for the enterprise to build, but we have to learn to build it. So big announcement was to build our environment to build better eventful applications from today. >> Talk about... This is the first re:Invent... Well, actually, I'm sorry, it's the second re:Invent under Adam Selipsky. >> Right. Adam Selipsky, yep. >> But his first year. >> Right >> We're hearing a lot of momentum. What's your takeaway with what he delivered with the direction Amazon is going, their vision? >> Ja, I think compared to the Jassy times, right, we didn't see the hockey stick slide, right? With a number of innovations and releases. That was done in 2019 too, right? So I think it's a more pedestrian pace, which, ultimately, is good for everybody, because it means that when software vendors go slower, they do less width, but more depth. >> Yeah. >> And depth is what customers need. So Amazon's building more on the depth side, which is good news. I also think, and that's not official, right, but Adam Selipsky came from Tableau, right? >> Yeah. So he is a BI analytics guy. So it's no surprise we have three data lake offerings, right? Security data lake, we have a healthcare data lake and we have a supply chain data lake, right? Where all, again, the epigonos mentioned them I was like, "Oh, my god, Amazon's coming to supply chain.", but it's actually data lakes, which is an interesting part. But, I think it's not a surprise that someone who comes heavily out of the analytics BI world, it's off ringside, if I was pitching internally to him maybe I'd do something which he's is familiar with and I think that's what we see in the major announcement of his keynote on Tuesday. >> I mean, speaking of analytics, one of the big announcements early on was Amazon is trying to bridge the gap between Aurora. >> Yep. >> And Redshift. >> Right. >> And setting up for continuous pipelines, continuous integration. >> Right. >> Seems to be a trend that is common to all database players. I mean, Oracle is doing the same thing. SAP is doing the same thing. MariaDB. Do you see the distinction between transactional and analytical databases going away? >> It's coming together, right? Certainly coming together, from that perspective, but there's a fundamental different starting point, right? And with the big idea part, right? The universal database, which does everything for you in one system, whereas the suite of specialized databases, right? Oracle is in the classic Oracle database in the universal database camp. On the other side you have Amazon, which built a database. This is one of the first few Amazon re:Invents. It's my 10th where there was no new database announced. Right? >> No. >> So it was always add another one specially- >> I think they have enough. >> It's a great approach. They have enough, right? So it's a great approach to build something quick, which Amazon is all about. It's not so great when customers want to leverage things. And, ultimately, which I think with Selipsky, AWS is waking up to the enterprise saying, "I have all this different database and what is in them matters to me." >> Yeah. >> "So how can I get this better?" So no surprise between the two most popular database, Aurora and RDS. They're bring together the data with some out of the box parts. I think it's kind of, like, silly when Swami's saying, "Hey, no ETL.". (chuckles) Right? >> Yeah. >> There shouldn't be an ETL from the same vendor, right? There should be data pipes from that perspective anyway. So it looks like, on the overall value proposition database side, AWS is moving closer to the universal database on the Oracle side, right? Because, if you lift, of course, the universal database, under the hood, you see, well, there's different database there, different part there, you do something there, you have to configure stuff, which is also the case but it's one part of it, right, so. >> With that shift, talk about the value that's going to be in it for customers regardless of industry. >> Well, the value for customers is great, because when software vendors, or platform vendors, go in depth, you get more functionality, you get more maturity you get easier ways of setting up the whole things. You get ways of maintaining things. And you, ultimately, get lower TCO to build them, which is super important for enterprise. Because, here, this is the developer cloud, right? Developers love AWS. Developers are scarce, expensive. Might not be want to work for you, right? So developer velocity getting more done with same amount of developers, getting less done, less developers getting more done, is super crucial, super important. So this is all good news for enterprise banking on AWS and then providing them more efficiency, more automation, out of the box. >> Some of your customer conversations this week, talk to us about some of the feedback. What's the common denominator amongst customers right now? >> Customers are excited. First of all, like, first event, again in person, large, right? >> Yeah. >> People can travel, people meet each other, meet in person. They have a good handle around the complexity, which used to be a huge challenge in the past, because people say, "Do I do this?" I know so many CXOs saying, "Yeah, I want to build, say, something in IoT with AWS. The first reference built it like this, the next reference built it completely different. The third one built it completely different again. So now I'm doubting if my team has the skills to build things successfully, because will they be smart enough, like your teams, because there's no repetitiveness and that repetitiveness is going to be very important for AWS to come up with some higher packaging and version numbers.", right? But customers like that message. They like that things are working better together. They're not missing the big announcement, right? One of the traditional things of AWS would be, and they made it even proud, as a system, Jassy was saying, "If we look at the IT spend and we see something which is, like, high margin for us and not served well and we announced something there, right?" So Quick Start, Workspaces, where all liaisons where AWS went after traditional IT spend and had an offering. We haven't had this in 2019, we don't have them in 2020. Last year and didn't have it now. So something is changing on the AWS side. It's a little bit too early to figure out what, but they're not chewing off as many big things as they used in the past. >> Right. >> Yep. >> Did you get the sense that... Keith Townsend, from "The CTO Advisor", was on earlier. >> Yep. >> And he said he's been to many re:Invents, as you have, and he said that he got the sense that this is Amazon's chance to do a victory lap, as he called it. That this is a way for Amazon to reinforce the leadership cloud. >> Ja. >> And really, kind of, establish that nobody can come close to them, nobody can compete with them. >> You don't think that- >> I don't think that's at all... I mean, love Keith, he's a great guy, but I don't think that's the mindset at all, right? So, I mean, Jassy was always saying, "It's still the morning of the day in the cloud.", right? They're far away from being done. They're obsessed over being right. They do more work with the analysts. We think we got something right. And I like the passion, from that perspective. So I think Amazon's far from being complacent and the area, which is the biggest bit, right, the biggest. The only thing where Amazon truly has floundered, always floundered, is the AI space, right? So, 2018, Werner Vogels was doing more technical stuff that "Oh, this is all about linear regression.", right? And Amazon didn't start to put algorithms on silicon, right? And they have a three four trail and they didn't announce anything new here, behind Google who's been doing this for much, much longer than TPU platform, so. >> But they have now. >> They're keen aware. >> Yep. >> They now have three, or they own two of their own hardware platforms for AI. >> Right. >> They support the Intel platform. They seem to be catching up in that area. >> It's very hard to catch up on hardware, right? Because, there's release cycles, right? And just the volume that, just talking about the largest models that we have right now, to do with the language models, and Google is just doing a side note of saying, "Oh, we supported 50 less or 30 less, not little spoken languages, which I've never even heard of, because they're under banked and under supported and here's the language model, right? And I think it's all about little bit the organizational DNA of a company. I'm a strong believer in that. And, you have to remember AWS comes from the retail side, right? >> Yeah. >> Their roll out of data centers follows their retail strategy. Open secret, right? But, the same thing as the scale of the AI is very very different than if you take a look over at Google where it makes sense of the internet, right? The scale right away >> Right. >> is a solution, which is a good solution for some of the DNA of AWS. Also, Microsoft Azure is good. There has no chance to even get off the ship of that at Google, right? And these leaders with Google and it's not getting smaller, right? We didn't hear anything. I mean so much focused on data. Why do they focus so much on data? Because, data is the first step for AI. If AWS was doing a victory lap, data would've been done. They would own data, right? They would have a competitor to BigQuery Omni from the Google side to get data from the different clouds. There's crickets on that topic, right? So I think they know that they're catching up on the AI side, but it's really, really hard. It's not like in software where you can't acquire someone they could acquire in video. >> Not at Core Donovan. >> Might play a game, but that's not a good idea, right? So you can't, there's no shortcuts on the hardware side. As much as I'm a software guy and love software and don't like hardware, it's always a pain, right? There's no shortcuts there and there's nothing, which I think, has a new Artanium instance, of course, certainly, but they're not catching up. The distance is the same, yep. >> One of the things is funny, one of our guests, I think it was Tuesday, it was, it was right after Adam's keynote. >> Sure. >> Said that Adam Selipsky stood up on stage and talked about data for 52 minutes. >> Yeah. Right. >> It was timed, 52 minutes. >> Right. >> Huge emphasis on that. One of the things that Adam said to John Furrier when they were able to sit down >> Yeah >> a week or so ago at an event preview, was that CIOs and CEOs are not coming to Adam to talk about technology. They want to talk about transformation. They want to talk about business transformation. >> Sure, yes, yes. >> Talk to me in our last couple of minutes about what CEOs and CIOs are coming to you saying, "Holger, help us figure this out. We have to transform the business." >> Right. So we advise, I'm going quote our friends at Gartner, once the type A company. So we'll use technology aggressively, right? So take everything in the audience with a grain of salt, followers are the laggards, and so on. So for them, it's really the cusp of doing AI, right? Getting that data together. It has to be in the cloud. We live in the air of infinite computing. The cloud makes computing infinite, both from a storage, from a compute perspective, from an AI perspective, and then define new business models and create new best practices on top of that. Because, in the past, everything was fine out on premise, right? We talked about the (indistinct) size. Now in the cloud, it's just the business model to say, "Do I want to have a little more AI? Do I want a to run a little more? Will it give me the insight in the business?". So, that's the transformation that is happening, really. So, bringing your data together, this live conversation data, but not for bringing the data together. There's often the big win for the business for the first time to see the data. AWS is banking on that. The supply chain product, as an example. So many disparate systems, bring them them together. Big win for the business. But, the win for the business, ultimately, is when you change the paradigm from the user showing up to do something, to software doing stuff for us, right? >> Right. >> We have too much in this operator paradigm. If the user doesn't show up, doesn't find the click, doesn't find where to go, nothing happens. It can't be done in the 21st century, right? Software has to look over your shoulder. >> Good point. >> Understand one for you, autonomous self-driving systems. That's what CXOs, who're future looking, will be talked to come to AWS and all the other cloud vendors. >> Got it, last question for you. We're making a sizzle reel on Instagram. >> Yeah. >> If you had, like, a phrase, like, or a 30 second pitch that would describe re:Invent 2022 in the direction the company's going. What would that elevator pitch say? >> 30 second pitch? >> Yeah. >> All right, just timing. AWS is doing well. It's providing more depth, less breadth. Making things work together. It's catching up in some areas, has some interesting offerings, like the healthcare offering, the security data lake offering, which might change some things in the industry. It's staying the course and it's going strong. >> Ah, beautifully said, Holger. Thank you so much for joining Paul and me. >> Might have been too short. I don't know. (laughs) >> About 10 seconds left over. >> It was perfect, absolutely perfect. >> Thanks for having me. >> Perfect sizzle reel. >> Appreciate it. >> We appreciate your insights, what you're seeing this week, and the direction the company is going. We can't wait to see what happens in the next year. And, yeah. >> Thanks for having me. >> And of course, we've been on so many times. We know we're going to have you back. (laughs) >> Looking forward to it, thank you. >> All right, for Holger Mueller and Paul Gillan, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching "theCube", the leader in live enterprise and emerging tech coverage. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Good morning everybody. Welcome back to Las Vegas. This is day four of theCUBE's wall-to-wall coverage of our Super Bowl, aka AWS re:Invent 2022. I'm here with my co-host, Paul Gillin. My name is Dave Vellante. Sanjay Poonen is in the house, CEO and president of Cohesity. He's sitting in as our guest market watcher, market analyst, you know, deep expertise, new to the job at Cohesity. He was kind enough to sit in, and help us break down what's happening at re:Invent. But Paul, first thing, this morning we heard from Werner Vogels. He was basically given a masterclass on system design. It reminded me of mainframes years ago. When we used to, you know, bury through those IBM blue books and red books. You remember those Sanjay? That's how we- learned back then. >> Oh God, I remember those, Yeah. >> But it made me think, wow, now you know IBM's more of a systems design, nobody talks about IBM anymore. Everybody talks about Amazon. So you wonder, 20 years from now, you know what it's going to be. But >> Well- >> Werner's amazing. >> He pulled out a 24 year old document. >> Yup. >> That he had written early in Amazon's evolution about synchronous design or about essentially distributed architectures that turned out to be prophetic. >> His big thing was nature is asynchronous. So systems are asynchronous. Synchronous is an illusion. It's an abstraction. It's kind of interesting. But, you know- >> Yeah, I mean I've had synonyms for things. Timeless architecture. Werner's an absolute legend. I mean, when you think about folks who've had, you know, impact on technology, you think of people like Jony Ive in design. >> Dave: Yeah. >> You got to think about people like Werner in architecture and just the fact that Andy and the team have been able to keep him engaged that long... I pay attention to his keynote. Peter DeSantis has obviously been very, very influential. And then of course, you know, Adam did a good job, you know, watching from, you know, having watched since I was at the first AWS re:Invent conference, at time was President SAP and there was only a thousand people at this event, okay? Andy had me on stage. I think I was one of the first guest of any tech company in 2011. And to see now this become like, it's a mecca. It's a mother of all IT events, and watch sort of even the transition from Andy to Adam is very special. I got to catch some of Ruba's keynote. So while there's some new people in the mix here, this has become a force of nature. And the last time I was here was 2019, before Covid, watched the last two ones online. But it feels like, I don't know 'about what you guys think, it feels like it's back to 2019 levels. >> I was here in 2019. I feel like this was bigger than 2019 but some people have said that it's about the same. >> I think it was 60,000 versus 50,000. >> Yes. So close. >> It was a little bigger in 2019. But it feels like it's more active. >> And then last year, Sanjay, you weren't here but it was 25,000, which was amazing 'cause it was right in that little space between Omicron, before Omicron hit. But you know, let me ask you a question and this is really more of a question about Amazon's maturity and I know you've been following them since early days. But the way I get the question, number one question I get from people is how is Amazon AWS going to be different under Adam than it was under Andy? What do you think? >> I mean, Adam's not new because he was here before. In some senses he knows the Amazon culture from prior, when he was running sales and marketing prior. But then he took the time off and came back. I mean, this will always be, I think, somewhat Andy's baby, right? Because he was the... I, you know, sent him a text, "You should be really proud of what you accomplished", but you know, I think he also, I asked him when I saw him a few weeks ago "Are you going to come to re:Invent?" And he says, "No, I want to leave this to be Adam's show." And Adam's going to have a slightly different view. His keynotes are probably half the time. It's a little bit more vision. There was a lot more customer stories at the beginning of it. Taking you back to the inspirational pieces of it. I think you're going to see them probably pulling up the stack and not just focused in infrastructure. Many of their platform services are evolved. Many of their, even application services. I'm surprised when I talk to customers. Like Amazon Connect, their sort of call center type technologies, an app layer. It's getting a lot. I mean, I've talked to a couple of Fortune 500 companies that are moving off Ayer to Connect. I mean, it's happening and I did not know that. So it's, you know, I think as they move up the stack, the platform's gotten more... The data centric stack has gotten, and you know, in the area we're working with Cohesity, security, data protection, they're an investor in our company. So this is an important, you know, both... I think tech player and a partner for many companies like us. >> I wonder the, you know, the marketplace... there's been a big push on the marketplace by all the cloud companies last couple of years. Do you see that disrupting the way softwares, enterprise software is sold? >> Oh, for sure. I mean, you have to be a ostrich with your head in the sand to not see this wave happening. I mean, what's it? $150 billion worth of revenue. Even though the growth rates dipped a little bit the last quarter or so, it's still aggregatively between Amazon and Azure and Google, you know, 30% growth. And I think we're still in the second or third inning off a grand 1 trillion or 2 trillion of IT, shifting not all of it to the cloud, but significantly faster. So if you add up all of the big things of the on-premise world, they're, you know, they got to a certain size, their growth is stable, but stalling. These guys are growing significantly faster. And then if you add on top of them, platform companies the data companies, Snowflake, MongoDB, Databricks, you know, Datadog, and then apps companies on top of that. I think the move to the Cloud is inevitable. In SaaS companies, I don't know why you would ever implement a CRM solution on-prem. It's all gone to the Cloud. >> Oh, it is. >> That happened 15 years ago. I mean, begin within three, five years of the advent of Salesforce. And the same thing in HR. Why would you deploy a HR solution now? You've got Workday, you've got, you know, others that are so some of those apps markets are are just never coming back to an on-prem capability. >> Sanjay, I want to ask you, you built a reputation for being able to, you know, forecast accurately, hit your plan, you know, you hit your numbers, you're awesome operator. Even though you have a, you know, technology degree, which you know, that's a two-tool star, multi-tool star. But I call it the slingshot economy. This is like, I mean I've seen probably more downturns than anybody in here, you know, given... Well maybe, maybe- >> Maybe me. >> You and I both. I've never seen anything like this, where where visibility is so unpredictable. The economy is sling-shotting. It's like, oh, hurry up, go Covid, go, go go build, build, build supply, then pull back. And now going forward, now pulling back. Slootman said, you know, on the call, "Hey the guide, is the guide." He said, "we put it out there, We do our best to hit it." But you had CrowdStrike had issues you know, mid-market, ServiceNow. I saw McDermott on the other day on the, on the TV. I just want to pay, you know, buy from the guy. He's so (indistinct) >> But mixed, mixed results, Salesforce, you know, Octa now pre-announcing, hey, they're going to be, or announcing, you know, better visibility, forward guide. Elastic kind of got hit really hard. HPE and Dell actually doing really well in the enterprise. >> Yep. >> 'Course Dell getting killed in the client. But so what are you seeing out there? How, as an executive, do you deal with such poor visibility? >> I think, listen, what the last two or three years have taught us is, you know, with the supply chain crisis, with the surge that people thought you may need of, you know, spending potentially in the pandemic, you have to start off with your tech platform being 10 x better than everybody else. And differentiate, differentiate. 'Cause in a crowded market, but even in a market that's getting tougher, if you're not differentiating constantly through technology innovation, you're going to get left behind. So you named a few places, they're all technology innovators, but even if some of them are having challenges, and then I think you're constantly asking yourselves, how do you move from being a point product to a platform with more and more services where you're getting, you know, many of them moving really fast. In the case of Roe, I like him a lot. He's probably one of the most savvy operators, also that I respect. He calls these speedboats, and you know, his core platform started off with the firewall network security. But he's built now a very credible cloud security, cloud AI security business. And I think that's how you need to be thinking as a tech executive. I mean, if you got core, your core beachhead 10 x better than everybody else. And as you move to adjacencies in these new platforms, have you got now speedboats that are getting to a point where they are competitive advantage? Then as you think of the go-to-market perspective, it really depends on where you are as a company. For a company like our size, we need partners a lot more. Because if we're going to, you know, stand on the shoulders of giants like Isaac Newton said, "I see clearly because I stand on the shoulders giants." I need to really go and cultivate Amazon so they become our lead partner in cloud. And then appropriately Microsoft and Google where I need to. And security. Part of what we announced last week was, last month, yeah, last couple of weeks ago, was the data security alliance with the biggest security players. What was I trying to do with that? First time ever done in my industry was get Palo Alto, CrowdStrike, Wallace, Tenable, CyberArk, Splunk, all to build an alliance with me so I could stand on their shoulders with them helping me. If you're a bigger company, you're constantly asking yourself "how do you make sure you're getting your, like Amazon, their top hundred customers spending more with that?" So I think the the playbook evolves, and I'm watching some of these best companies through this time navigate through this. And I think leadership is going to be tested in enormously interesting ways. >> I'll say. I mean, Snowflake is really interesting because they... 67% growth, which is, I mean, that's best in class for a company that's $2 billion. And, but their guide was still, you know, pretty aggressive. You know, so it's like, do you, you know, when it when it's good times you go, "hey, we can we can guide conservatively and know we can beat it." But when you're not certain, you can't dial down too far 'cause your investors start to bail on you. It's a really tricky- >> But Dave, I think listen, at the end of the day, I mean every CEO should not be worried about the short term up and down in the stock price. You're building a long-term multi-billion dollar company. In the case of Frank, he has, I think I shot to a $10 billion, you know, analytics data warehousing data management company on the back of that platform, because he's eyeing the market that, not just Teradata occupies today, but now Oracle occupies or other databases, right? So his tam as it grows bigger, you're going to have some of these things, but that market's big. I think same with Palo Alto. I mean Datadog's another company, 75% growth. >> Yeah. >> At 20% margins, like almost rule of 95. >> Amazing. >> When they're going after, not just the observability market, they're eating up the sim market, security analytics, the APM market. So I think, you know, that's, you look at these case studies of companies who are going from point product to platforms and are steadily able to grow into new tams. You know, to me that's very inspiring. >> I get it. >> Sanjay: That's what I seek to do at our com. >> I get that it's a marathon, but you know, when you're at VMware, weren't you looking at the stock price every day just out of curiosity? I mean listen, you weren't micromanaging it. >> You do, but at the end of the day, and you certainly look at the days of earnings and so on so forth. >> Yeah. >> Because you want to create shareholder value. >> Yeah. >> I'm not saying that you should not but I think in obsession with that, you know, in a short term, >> Going to kill ya. >> Makes you, you know, sort of myopically focused on what may not be the right thing in the long term. Now in the long arc of time, if you're not creating shareholder value... Look at what happened to Steve Bomber. You needed Satya to come in to change things and he's created a lot of value. >> Dave: Yeah, big time. >> But I think in the short term, my comments were really on the quarter to quarter, but over a four a 12 quarter, if companies are growing and creating profitable growth, they're going to get the valuation they deserve. >> Dave: Yeah. >> Do you the... I want to ask you about something Arvind Krishna said in the previous IBM earnings call, that IT is deflationary and therefore it is resistant to the macroeconomic headwinds. So IT spending should actually thrive in a deflation, in a adverse economic climate. Do you think that's true? >> Not all forms of IT. I pay very close attention to surveys from, whether it's the industry analysts or the Morgan Stanleys, or Goldman Sachs. The financial analysts. And I think there's a gluc in certain sectors that will get pulled back. Traditional view is when the economies are growing people spend on the top line, front office stuff, sales, marketing. If you go and look at just the cloud 100 companies, which are the hottest private companies, and maybe with the public market companies, there's way too many companies focused on sales and marketing. Way too many. I think during a downsizing and recession, that's going to probably shrink some, because they were all built for the 2009 to 2021 era, where it was all about the top line. Okay, maybe there's now a proposition for companies who are focused on cost optimization, supply chain visibility. Security's been intangible, that I think is going to continue to an investment. So I tell, listen, if you are a tech investor or if you're an operator, pay attention to CIO priorities. And right now, in our business at Cohesity, part of the reason we've embraced things like ransomware protection, there is a big focus on security. And you know, by intelligently being a management and a security company around data, I do believe we'll continue to be extremely relevant to CIO budgets. There's a ransomware, 20 ransomware attempts every second. So things of that kind make you relevant in a bank. You have to stay relevant to a buying pattern or else you lose momentum. >> But I think what's happening now is actually IT spending's pretty good. I mean, I track this stuff pretty closely. It's just that expectations were so high and now you're seeing earnings estimates come down and so, okay, and then you, yeah, you've got the, you know the inflationary factors and your discounted cash flows but the market's actually pretty good. >> Yeah. >> You know, relative to other downturns that if this is not a... We're not actually not in a downturn. >> Yeah. >> Not yet anyway. It may be. >> There's a valuation there. >> You have to prepare. >> Not sales. >> Yeah, that's right. >> When I was on CNBC, I said "listen, it's a little bit like that story of Joseph. Seven years of feast, seven years of famine." You have to prepare for potentially your worst. And if it's not the worst, you're in good shape. So will it be a recession 2023? Maybe. You know, high interest rates, inflation, war in Russia, Ukraine, maybe things do get bad. But if you belt tightening, if you're focused in operational excellence, if it's not a recession, you're pleasantly surprised. If it is one, you're prepared for it. >> All right. I'm going to put you in the spot and ask you for predictions. Expert analysis on the World Cup. What do you think? Give us the breakdown. (group laughs) >> As my... I wish India was in the World Cup, but you can't get enough Indians at all to play soccer well enough, but we're not, >> You play cricket, though. >> I'm a US man first. I would love to see one of Brazil, or Argentina. And as a Messi person, I don't know if you'll get that, but it would be really special for Messi to lead, to end his career like Maradonna winning a World Cup. I don't know if that'll happen. I'm probably going to go one of the Latin American countries, if the US doesn't make it far enough. But first loyalty to the US team, and then after one of the Latin American countries. >> And you think one of the Latin American countries is best bet to win or? >> I don't know. It's hard to tell. They're all... What happens now at this stage >> So close, right? >> is anybody could win. >> Yeah. You just have lots of shots of gold. I'm a big soccer fan. It could, I mean, I don't know if the US is favored to win, but if they get far enough, you get to the finals, anybody could win. >> I think they get Netherlands next, right? >> That's tough. >> Really tough. >> But... The European teams are good too, but I would like to see US go far enough, and then I'd like to see Latin America with team one of Argentina, or Brazil. That's my prediction. >> I know you're a big Cricket fan. Are you able to follow Cricket the way you like? >> At god unearthly times the night because they're in Australia, right? >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> I watched the T-20 World Cup, select games of it. Yeah, you know, I'm not rapidly following every single game but the World Cup games, I catch you. >> Yeah, it's good. >> It's good. I mean, I love every sport. American football, soccer. >> That's great. >> You get into basketball now, I mean, I hope the Warriors come back strong. Hey, how about the Warriors Celtics? What do we think? We do it again? >> Well- >> This year. >> I'll tell you what- >> As a Boston Celtics- >> I would love that. I actually still, I have to pay off some folks from Palo Alto office with some bets still. We are seeing unprecedented NBA performance this year. >> Yeah. >> It's amazing. You look at the stats, it's like nothing. I know it's early. Like nothing we've ever seen before. So it's exciting. >> Well, always a pleasure talking to you guys. >> Great to have you on. >> Thanks for having me. >> Thank you. Love the expert analysis. >> Sanjay Poonen. Dave Vellante. Keep it right there. re:Invent 2022, day four. We're winding up in Las Vegas. We'll be right back. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. (lighthearted soft music)

>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello everyone, welcome to this CUBE conversation here in the Palo Alto studios for theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, the host. We're here during this time where everyone's sheltering in place during the COVID-19 crisis. We're getting the interviews out and getting the stories that matter for you. It's theCUBE's mission just to share and extract the data from, signal from the noise, and share that with you. Of course the conversation here is about how the data analytics are being used. We have a great friend and CUBE alum, Bruno Kurtic, VP, founding VP of Product and Strategy for Sumo Logic, a leader in analytics. We've been following you guys, kind of going back I think many, many years, around big data, now with AI and machine learning. You guys are an industry leader. Bruno, thanks for spending the time to come on theCUBE, I know you're sheltering in place. Thanks for coming on. >> You're welcome, pleasure. >> Obviously with the crisis, the work at home has really highlighted the at-scale problem, right? We've been having many conversations on theCUBE of cybersecurity at scale, because now the endpoint protection business has been exploding, literally, a lot of pressure of malware. A convenient crime time for those hackers. You're starting to see cloud failure. Google had 18 hours of downtime. Azure's got some downtime. I think Amazon's the only one that haven't had any downtime. But everything is being at scale now, because the new work environment is actually putting pressure on the industry, not only just the financial pressure of people losing their jobs or the hiring freezes, but now the focus is staying in business and getting through this. But the pressure points of scale are starting to show. And working at home is one of them. Analytics has become a big part of it. Can you share your perspective of how people using analytics to get through this, because now the scale of the problem-solving is there with analytics. It's in charts on the virus, exponential curves, people want to know the impact of their business in all this. What's your view on this situation? >> Yeah. The world has changed so quickly. Analytics has always been important. But there are really two aspects of analytics that are important right now. A lot of our enterprises today, obviously, as you said, are switching to this sort of remote workforce. Everybody who was local is now remote, so, people are working from home. That is putting stress on the systems that support that working from home. It's putting stress on infrastructure, things like VPNs and networks and things like that because they're carrying more bits and bytes. It's putting stress on productivity tools, things like cloud provider tools, things like Office 365, and Google Drive, and Salesforce, and other things that are now being leveraged more and more as people are remote. Enterprises are leveraging analytics to optimize and to ensure that they can facilitate course of business, understand where their issues are, understand where their failures are, internal and external, route traffic appropriately to make sure that they can actually do the business they need. But that's only half of the problem. In fact, I think the other half of the problem is maybe even bigger. We as humans are no longer able to go out. We're not supposed to, and able to go shopping and doing things as we normally do, so all of these enterprises are not only working remotely, leveraging productivity tools and quote-unquote "digital technologies" to do work. They're also serving more customers through their digital properties. And so their sites, their apps, their retail stores online, and all of the digital aspects of enterprises today are under more load because consumers and customers are leveraging those channels more. People are getting groceries delivered at home, pharmaceuticals delivered at home. Everything is going through online systems rather than us going to Walgreens and other places to pick things up. Both of those aspects of scale and security are important. Analytics is important in both figuring out how do you serve your customers effectively, and how do you secure those sites. Because now that there's more load, there's more people, and it's a bigger honeypot. And then also, how do you actually do your own business to support that in a digital world? >> Bruno, that's a great point. I just want to reiterate that the role of data in all this is really fundamental and clear, the value that you can get out of the data. Now, you and I, we've had many conversations with you guys over the years. For all of us insiders, we all know this already. Data analytics, everyone's instrumenting their business. But now when you see real-life examples of death and destruction, I mean, I was reporting yesterday that leaked emails from the CDC in the United States showed that in January, they saw that people didn't have fevers with COVID-19. The system was lagging. There was no real-time notifications. This is our world. We've been living in this for this past decade, in the big data world. This is highlighting a global problem, that with notifications, with the right use of data, is a real game-changer. You couldn't get any more clear. I have to ask you, with all this kind of revelations, and I don't mean to be all gloom-and-doom, but that's the reality, highlights the fact that instrumenting and having the data analytics is a must-have. Can you share your reaction to that? >> Yeah, absolutely. You're right. Like you said, we are insiders here, and we've been espousing this world of what we internally in Sumo call the continuous intelligence, which essentially means to us and to our customers, that you collect and process all signals that are available to you as a business, as a government, as a whatever entity that is dealing with critical things. You need to process all of that data as quickly as you can. You need to mine it for insights. You need to, in an agile fashion, just like software development, you need to consume those insights, build them into your processes to improve, to react, to respond quickly, and then deliver better outcomes. The sooner you understand what the data is telling you, the sooner you can actually respond to whatever that data is telling you, and actually avoid bad outcomes, improve good outcomes, and overall, react to whatever is forcing you to react. >> I was just talking with Dave Vellante last week about this, my co-host, and also Jeff Frick, my general manager, who interviewed you in the past on theCUBE, about the transition and transformation that's happening. I want to just get your reaction to what we're seeing, and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. There's transitions and there's transformations. Yeah, we've been kind of in this data transition around analytics. You pointed out, as insiders, we've been pointing this out for years. But I think now there's more of a transformative component to this. I think it's becoming clear to everyone the role of data, and you've laid out some good things there. Now I want to ask you, on this transformation. Do you agree with it, and if you do, how does that change the roles? Because if I'm going to react to this as a business, whether small, medium, and large business, large enterprise or government, I now realize that the old world's over. I need to get to the new way. That means new roles, new responsibilities, new outcomes, new ways to measure. Can you share your thoughts on that? Do you agree with the transformation, and two, what are some of those new role changes? How should a business manager or technologist make that transformation? >> Yeah. If it was ever more clear, getting a switch, or a transformation as you say, from the old way we did business and we did technology to the new way, is only being highlighted by this crisis. If you are an enterprise, and you are trying to do everything yourself, running your own IT stacks and all of that, it is clear today that it is much more difficult to do that than if you were leveraging next generation technologies: clouds, SaaS, PaaS, and other things, because it is hard to get people even to work. I think if we have ever been in a place where this sort of transformation is a must, not a slow choice or an evolution, it is now. Because enterprises who have done that, who have done that already, are now at an advantage. I think this is a critical moment in time for us all as we all wake up to this new reality. It is not to say that enterprises are going to be switched over after this specific crisis, but what's going to happen, I believe, is that, I think the philosophies are going to change, enterprises are going to think of this as the new normal. They're going to think about, "Hey, if I don't have the data "about my business, about my customers, "about my infrastructure, about my systems, "I won't be able to respond to the next one." Because right now there's a lot of plugging the holes in the dam with fingers and toes, but we are going to need to be ready for this, because if you think about what this particular pandemic means, this isn't going to end in April or May. Because without a treatment, or without a vaccination, it's going to continue to resurface. Unless we eradicate the entire population of the virus, any new incident is going to start up like a small flare-up, and that is going to continue to bring us back into the situation. Over this time, we're going to have to continue to respond to this crisis as we are, and we need to plan for the future ones like this. That might not be a pandemic type of crisis. It could be a change in the business. It could be other types of world events, whatever it might be. But I think this is the time when enterprises are going to start adopting these types of procedures and technologies to be able to respond. >> It's interesting, Bruno, you bring up some good points. I think about all the conversations that I've had over the years with pros around "disaster recovery" and continuous operations. This is a different vector of what that means, because when you highlighted earlier, IT, it's not like a hurricane or a power outage. This is a different kind of disruption. We talked about scale. What are some of the things that you're seeing right now that businesses are being faced with, that you guys are seeing in the analytics, or use cases that have emerged from this new normal that is facing today's business with this crisis. What's changed? What is this new challenge? When you think about the business continuity and how continuous operations need to be sustained because, again, it's a different vector. It's not a blackout, it's not a hurricane. It's a different kind of disruption. It's one where the business needs to stay on more than ever. >> Yep. Correct. True. What's really interesting, and there are some relatively straightforward use cases that we're seeing. People are dealing with their authentication, VPN network issues, because everybody is low on bandwidth. Everybody is, all of these systems are at their breaking point because they're carrying more than they ever did. These are use cases that existed all along. The problem with the use cases that existed all along is that they've been slowly picking up and growing. This is the discontinuity right now. What's happened right now, all of a sudden you've got double, triple, quadruple the load, and you need to both scale up your infrastructure, scale up your monitoring, be much more vigilant about that monitoring, speed up your recovery because more is at stake, and all of those things. That's the generic use case that existed all along, but have not been in this disruptive type of operating environment. Second is, enterprises are now learning very quickly what they need to do in terms of scaling and monitoring their production, customer-facing infrastructure, what used to be in the data center, the three-tier world, adding a few notes to an application, to your website over time, worked. Right now everybody is realizing that this whole bent on building our microservices, building for scale, rearchitecting and all that stuff, so that you can respond to an instantaneous burst of traffic on your site. You want to capture that traffic, because it means revenue. If you don't capture it, you miss out on it, and then customers go elsewhere, and never come back, and all that stuff. A lot of the work loads are to ensure that the systems, the mission-critical systems, are up and running. It's all about monitoring real-time telemetry, accelerating root cause analysis across systems that are cloud systems, and so on. >> It's a great point. You actually were leading into my next question I wanted to ask you. You know, the old saying goes, "Preparation meets opportunity. Those are the lucky ones." Luck is never really there. You're prepared, and opportunity. Can you talk about those people that have been prepared, that are doing it right now, or who are actually getting through this? What does preparation look like? What's that opportunity? Who's not prepared? Who's hurting the most? Who's suffering, and what could they do differently? Are you seeing any patterns out there, that people, they did their work, they're cloud native, they're scaled out, or they have auto-scaling. What are some of the things where people were prepared, and could you describe that, and on the other side where people weren't prepared, and they're hurting. Can you describe those two environments? >> Sure. Yeah. You think about the spectrum of companies that are going through digital transformation. There are companies who are on the left side. I don't know whether I'm mirroring or not. Basically, on the left side are people who are just making that transformation and moving to serving customers digitally, and on the right side are the ones that are basically all in, already there, and have been building modern architectures to support that type of transformation. The ones that are already all the way on the right, companies like us, right? We've been in this business forever. We serve customers who are early adopters of digital, so we've had to deal with things like November 6th, primary elections, and all of our media and entertainment customers who were spiking. Or we have to deal with companies that do sporting events like World Cup or Super Bowl and things like that. We knew that our business was going to always demand of us to be able to respond to both scheduled and unscheduled disruptions, and we needed to build systems that can scale to that without many human interactions. And there are many of our customers, and companies who are in that position today, who are actually able to do business and are now thriving, because they are the ones capturing market share at this point in time. The people who are struggling are people who have not yet made it to that full transformation, people who, essentially, assume business as normal, who are maybe beginning that transformation, but don't have the know-how, or the architecture, or the technology yet to support it. Their customers are coming to them through their new digital channels, but those digital channels struggle. You'll see this, more often than not you're going to find these still running in a traditional data center than in the cloud. Sometimes they're running in the cloud where they've done just a regular lift-and-shift instead of rearchitecting and things like that. There's really a spectrum, and it's really funny and amazing how much it maps to the journey in digital transformation, and how this specific thing is essentially, what's happening right now, it looks like the business environment demands everybody to be fully digital, but not everybody is. Effectively, the ones that are not are struggling more than the ones that are. >> Yeah. Certainly, we're seeing with theCUBE, with the digital events happening on our side, all events are canceled, so they've got to move online. You can't just take a physical, old way of doing something, where there's content value, and moving it to digital. It's a whole different ball game. There's different roles, there's different responsibilities. It's a completely different set of things. That's putting pressure on all these teams, and that's just one use case. You're seeing it in IT, you're seeing it happen in marketing and sales, how people are doing business. This is going to be very, very key for these companies. The data will be, ultimately, the key. You guys are doing a great job. I do want to get to the news, and I want to get the plug in for Sumo Logic. I want to say congratulations to you guys. A press release went out today from Sumo Logic. You guys are offering free cloud-based data analytics to support work from home and online classroom environments. That's great news. Can you just share and give a plug for that, PSA? >> Sure! We basically have a lot of customers who, just like us, are now starting to work from home. As soon as this began, we got inbound demands saying, "Oh, could you get, do you have an application for this, "do you have some analytics for that, "things that support our work from home." We thought hey, why don't we just make this as a package, and actually build out-of-the-box solutions that can support people who have common working from home technologies that they used to use for 10% of their workforce, and now work for 100% of their workforce. Let's package those, let's push those out. Let's support educational institutions who are now struggling. I have two kids in here who are learning. Everything is online, right? We had to get another computer for them and all this stuff. They're younger, they're in fourth grade. They are doing this, I can see personally how the schools are struggling, how they're trying to learn this whole new model. They need to have their systems be reliable and resilient, and this is not just elementaries, but middle school, high schools, colleges have all expanded their on-premise teaching. So we said, "Okay. Let's do something to help the community "with what we do best." Which is, we can help them make sure that the things that they do, that they need to do for this remote workforce, remote learning, whatever it might be, is efficient, working, and secure. We packaged several bundles of these solutions and offered those for free for a while, so that both our customers, and non-customers, and educational institutions have something they can go and reach for when they are struggling to keep their systems up and running. >> Yeah, it's also a mindset change, too. They want comfort. They want to have a partner. I think that's great that you guys are doing for the community. Can you just give some color commentary on how this all went down? Did you guys have a huddle in your room, said, "Hey, this is a part of our business. "We could really package this up "and really push it out and help people." Is that how it all came together? Can you share some inside commentary on how this all went down and what happened? >> Yeah. Basically, we had a discussion, literally, I think, the first or the second day when we all were sent home. We got on our online meeting and sat down, and essentially learned about this inbound demand from our customers, and what they were looking to do. We were like, "Okay, why don't we, "why don't we just offer this? "Why don't we package it?" It was a cross-functional team that just sat there. It was a no-brainer. Nobody was agonizing over doing this for free or anything like that. We were just sitting there thinking, "What can we do? "Right now is the time for us to all "pull each other up and help each other. "It'll all sort itself out afterwards." >> You know, during the bubonic plague, Shakespeare wrote Macbeth during that time. You guys are being creative during this time, as the coronavirus, so props to you guys at Sumo Logic. Congratulations, and thanks for taking the time. Can you give some parting thoughts on it, for the folks who are working at home? Just some motivational inspiration from you guys? What's going to come next for you guys? >> Sure. And thank you for having me on this video. I would say that we have been making slow transition towards remote workforce as it is. In a lot of places around the world, it's not that easy to make it to an office. Traffic is getting worse, big centers are getting populated, real estate is getting more expensive, all of this stuff. I think, actually, this is an opportunity for enterprises, for companies, and for people to figure out how this is done. We can actually practice now. We're forced to practice. It might actually have positive impact on all industries. We are going to probably figure out how to travel less, probably figure out how to actually do this more effectively, the cost of doing business is going to go down, ability to actually find new jobs might broaden, because you might be able to actually find jobs at companies who never thought they could do this remotely, and now are willing to hire remote workforces and people. I think this is going to be all good for us in the end. Right now it feels painful, and everybody's scared, and all that stuff, but I think long term, both the transformation into digitally serving our customers and the transformation towards remote workforce is going to be good for business. >> Yeah. It takes a community, and we really appreciate the effort you guys make, making that free for people, the classrooms. Remember, Isaac Newton discovered gravity and calculus while sheltering in place. A lot of interesting, new things are going to happen. I appreciate it. >> Bruno: Absolutely. >> Bruno, thank you for taking the time and sharing your insights from your place, sheltering. I made a visit into the studio to get this interview and a variety of other interviews we're doing digitally here. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate your time. >> Thank you. Appreciate you as well. >> I'm John Furrier with theCUBE here. CUBE conversation with Bruno from Sumo Logic sharing his perspective on the COVID-19. The impact, the disruption and path to the future out of this, and the new normal that is going to change our lives. Thanks for watching.

(upbeat electronic music) >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are at Oracle Park in San Francisco for a really special event. It's called Sports Tech Tokyo World Demo Day, really bringing together a bunch of innovative companies in the sports tech space, really with a focus on not only sports but beyond sports. And we're happy to have really one of the key players here that made this all happen from Dentsu. He's Fumihiko Nakajima, the Senior Director of Business Development from Dentsu. Welcome. >> Hi, nice to meet you. >> Yeah absolutely. So for people that aren't familiar with Dentsu, give us a little overview of Dentsu as a company and then we'll get into the specific event. >> Yeah, Dentsu has a long history focusing on broadcasting rights and sponsorship for event globally. But combining such kind of global asset and new technology to create a new business in sports tech industry and beyond sports industry. >> Right. So pretty interesting way to do that, so you didn't just go find some interesting companies, you guys have created this event to bring a lot of companies together, demonstrate their technology. What was kind of the thinking and how did you guys get involved? >> Yeah. Combining the new asset and technologies and global asset, there are lot of the Japanese company global brand, SoftBank, ITOCHU, Sony Music, Microsoft, and CBC. Such kind of companies very interested in, create new business with innovative staff all over the world. So that's a basis of this event. >> Right, right. So, you got the Tokyo Olympics coming up in a year, so that's kind of a catalyst to make all this happen. Is there anything special that you see between, you know, kind of sports technology and managing teams, sports technology applied to the athletes, and then sports technology applied to the fan experience that you're most excited about? >> Yeah, that's correct. This is a beginning. Next month world Rugby World Cup, the next year, Tokyo Olympic and Paralympic we have. That's a beginning, so, you know the, the sports and live entertainment beyond live entertainment, health cares, biometrics, bio mechanics, from the point of sports. But we enter into the new field and explore the new business field. >> Jeff: Right. >> With the great start-ups and industry leaders on the basis, that who joining these communities. >> Right, right. No, it's pretty interesting because you know the, companies spend so much money now on the players and really look at them as investments. A lot of players get hundred million dollar contracts now. So it's pretty interesting on kind of the health care and the like we talked earlier, sleep and nutrition-- >> Yeah. >> And all these things to keep that athlete performing, are really applicable to everyday people like you and me. >> Yeah. You know that Dentsu has more than one century history in marketing and branding all over the world. And our assets, such kind, properties and, global network, will really help the new technologies and new start up, the new business field. >> Jeff: Right. >> Grow rapidly. >> Jeff: Right. >> All over the world. >> Right. It's interesting, too, that so much of the stuff around the sports, you talked about sponsorship and rights beyond just the score, you know, is so important these days. To feed the 24/7 news cycle, to do fantasy sports, the changes in the gambling law, so there's so much stuff around sports that's beyond the sport that's watched in this industry grow and grow and grow. >> Yeah it's a very interesting point. We know new, legal we will need, a new legal and a new set-up structure for the new business. >> Jeff: Right. >> In specific Tokyo, a lot of specialist joined to help such kind of structures for the futures. >> Right. So before I let you go, it's a busy day, have you been to this park before, home of the Giants, and what do you think? >> Yeah very, very, very special day. It will be very memorable day that one of the best historic venue in America, the San Francisco Giants stadium, Oracle Park. We really excited to share our progress, concrete progress, and want to expand our trial to all over the world. >> Great, well thanks for inviting us and we're, we're excited to watch the story unfold. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Alright. He's Fumihiko, I'm Jeff, you're watchin' theCUBE. We're at Oracle Park in San Francisco, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCube. We are at Oracle Park, formerly AT&T Park, recently named Oracle Park. Right on the shores of McCovey Cove, in downtown San Francisco. We haven't been here since Sport's Data, I think 2014. I can't believe it's been five years. So maybe now the Giants' situation will turn as we make a run for the pennant. We're here at a really interesting event, it's called Sports Tech Tokyo World Demo Day. And we're here with kind of the master of ceremonies, if you will, he's Mike Proman, the Managing Director of Scrum Ventures. Mike, great to see you. >> Great to be here. Thanks again for the time. >> Absolutely. So what is this day all about? Give us the low down. >> Yeah so, start up frenzy, right? Sports tech community's just in it's infancy right now. There's a lot of fragmentation though, in this world. And how do we best connect start ups to best-in-class companies, right? Japanese companies, there's a lot of excitement in Japan right now. We have Rugby World Cup coming up next month, we have the Olympics next year. How do we enable the start up community to realize those opportunities from a partnership perspective? So, we set out on this journey about a year ago. Bringing together companies of all different stages, all different geographic regions, and all different areas of focus within sports tech. And our job was to connect them to opportunities in Japan. What we kind of uncovered along the journey right, is that this is a community. And that we're building a platform here that transcends Asia, right. We want to help this community, and whether it's connecting them with the venture audience, or otherwise, we feel this is a great reflection of innovation coming in to this industry. >> Now you took kind of an interesting tact. You've called them, before we turned the cameras on, kind of a cohort, kind of an incubator, not really an incubator. So how is this thing structured, how do people get involved? What are some of the benefits of being part of this group versus out there slogging it on your own? >> Well, absolutely, and I think everyone's first reaction is, oh, this is just another accelerator, right? And we've really made a point of not identifying ourselves as an accelerator, for a variety of reasons. Number one, it's a stage-agnostic cohorts, right. So a lot of the companies that are representative here today, the 159 in our cohort, they've raised 10, 20, 30, $40 million. In many respects, they're all grows up, right. They don't need a quote unquote, a traditional accelerator. But our reality is, everybody needs acceleration. And particularly in Asia, Japan in particular, right? You need allies, you need advocates, you need facilitators. And people who are going to help revenue optimization, as well as just breaking the door in some cases. There's a lot of high profile content coming to that region, and if we can help people, it all comes back to us, long term. >> Right, right. And then the other piece, obviously, is the investment piece. 'Cause you work with a number of Japanese investment firms, so that's really kind of part of the, you know, we're sitting in San Franscisco, the event's called Tokyo, the Olympics are a year way, and you're from the Mid-West. So, you're kind of bringing it all together here in San Franscisco. >> You know, sport is the great unifier, right. So this is a great opportunity for us to speak to other industries, and bring the venture community into this conversation. Because, as you know, it's about top-line growth for a lot of these startups, but in many cases, they need capital to be able to accelerate into that growth. And so, you know, it's a very exciting time, and we're here to help support everybody. Our DNA, we're investors, right. We're a venture capital firm. But at the end of the day, what ends up happening is, these companies needs advocacy and connections, and that's what we're here to provide. >> Right, so, you said 100 plus companies in cohort. So, there's a lot of things going on in sports tech, but what are some of the really oddball ones that you're seeing a little further out than maybe most people aren't thinking about. >> Yeah, you know, the trends to me that I'm really excited about personally, are those opportunities that transcend the industry, right. Where is there opportunity for us to democratize things, from just a lead athletes, right, into things that you and I both need. So look at athlete performance. Look at recovery health, as an industry focus, right. Hydration, you look at mental health, sleep health, dietary health, you know. Players of the Giants, they need that, right? But you and I need that too. So where are those technologies that are innovators or thought leaders and leading the way in those spaces? The nice thing about Sports Tech Tokyo is we focus in athlete performance, stadium experience, and fan engagement, right. And there are 13 sub-categories, so it's a very broad based cohort, a lot of different areas of expertise. But bringing them all together is what's most rewarding. >> What's your favorite piece of it? I mean, it's hard to pick your favorite kid, but a couple of interesting companies in the portfolio that you'd like to highlight. >> Everyone's always saying, oh, you put me on the spot. No, absolutely not, Jeff. But in reality, my background is, I've been an entrepreneur for 10 plus years before this. And I've worked with brands like Coca Cola, and the NBA. What excites me most-- >> So we framed you up with a Coke bottle, by the way. >> Thank you very much. That was a nice product placement there. The nice thing is, I'm seeing technology today that didn't fundamentally exist a year or two ago. So I could tell you my favorite right now, in 2 weeks that might be entirely different, right. You're going to meet somebody from Misapplied Sciences, and they are doing some of the most breakthrough, cutting edge tech that, it's mind boggling, in terms of what they can do. And what's great about a company like Misapplied, is that they're doing it in sports, but they're also doing it in retail, and other high-dense environments. And so to me, those are the winners in this cohort. The ones that can transcend sport, and add value to so many other places. >> Right, so, before I let you go, you got a busy day ahead. What's the run of the day, what should people expect who are coming through the gates here at Oracle today? >> Well I said this is not your traditional accelerator. Well, this is not your traditional demo day, by any means, right. Traditionally, demo day is a bunch of company pitches, and then there's maybe some conversation afterwards. To us, this is a celebration of a broader cohort, right. Our 100 plus mentors that make up the Sports Tech Tokyo community. And we wanted to celebrate those individuals, right. The 100 mentors, the 400 plus attendees we have here today. So, think of it as an extended cocktail party, right. We want people to connect, and connect at scale. And so that's the back half of the day. The front half of the day is more content oriented. We have a lot of industry experts, again, common theme is transcending the vertical. Looking at opportunities to bring the venture community into the conversation. >> All right, well Mike, good luck and have a great and very busy day. >> Yeah, thank you so much. Appreciate it Jeff. >> He's Mike, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCube. We're at Oracle Park in San Francisco on the shores of McCovey Cove, thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (upbeat digital music)

>> from Seattle WASHINGTON. It's the Q covering AWS Imagine brought to you by Amazon Web service is >> Hey, welcome back, You're ready. Geoffrey here with the Cube were in Seattle, >> Washington downtown, right next to the convention center for the AWS. Imagine e d. You show. It's a second year of the show found by Andrew Cohen. His crew, part of Theresa's public sector group, really focused on education. Education means everything from K through 12 higher education and community college education, getting out of the military and retraining education. It's ah, it's a really huge category, and it's everything from, you know, getting the colleges to do a better job by being on cloud infrastructure, innovating and really thinking outside the box are really excited to have the man who's doing a lot of the work on the curriculum development in the education is Ken Eisner is the director of worldwide education programs for AWS. Educate can great to see you. Thank you so much for having absolutely nice shot out this morning by Theresa, she said. She just keeps asking you for more. So >> you want to deliver for Theresa? Carl says she is. She is a dynamo and she drives us >> all she does. So let's dive into it a little bit. So, you know, there was, Ah, great line that they played in the keynote with Andy talking about, You know, we cannot be protecting old institutions. We need to think about the kids is a story I hear all the time where somebody came from a time machine from 17 76 and landed here today. It wouldn't recognize how we talk, how we get around, but they would recognize one thing, and unfortunately, that's the school house down at the end of the block. So you guys are trying to change that. You're really trying to revolutionize what's happening in education, give us a little bit of background on some of the specific things that you're working on today. >> Yeah, I I think Andy, one of the things that he mentioned at that time was that education is really in a crisis on. We need to be inventing at a rapid rate. We need to show that invented simplify inside that occassion. Andi, he's incredibly, he's correct. The students are our customers, and we've got to be changing things for them. What we've been really excited to see is that with this giant growth in cloud computing A W S. It was the fastest I T vendor to ever hit $10,000,000,000 a year. The run rate We're now growing at a 42% or 41% year over year growth Ray and $31,000,000,000 a year Lee company. It's creating this giant cloud computing opportunity cloud computing in the number one Lincoln Skill for the past four years in Rome, when we look at that software development to cloud architecture to the data science and artificial intelligence and data analytics and cyber security rules. But we're not preparing kids for this. Market Gallop ran a study that that showed about 11% of business executives thought that students were prepared for their jobs. It's not working, It's gotta change. And the exciting thing that's happening right now is workforce development. Governments are really pushing for change in education, and it's starting to happen >> right? It's pretty amazing were here last year. The team last year was very much round the community college releases and the certification of the associate programs and trial down in Southern California, and this year. I've been surprised. We've had two guests on where it's the state governor has pushed these initiatives not at the district level, the city level, but from the state winning both Louisiana as well as Virginia. That's pretty amazing support to move in such an aggressive direction and really a new area. >> Yeah, I was actually just moderating a panel where we had Virginia, Louisiana, in California, all sitting down talking about that scaling statewide strategy. We had announcements from the entire CUNY and Sunni or City University of New York and State University of New York system to do both two and four year programs in Cloud Computing. And Louisiana announced it with their K 12 system, their community college system and their four year with Governor John Bel Edwards making the announcement two months ago. So right we are seeing this scaling consortium, a play where institutions are collaborating across themselves. They're collaborating vertically with your higher ed and K 12 and yet direct to the workforce because we need to be hiring people at such a rapid ray that we we need to be also putting a lot of skin in the game and that story that happened so again, I agree with Andy said. Education is at a crisis. But now we're starting to see change makers inside of education, making that move right. It's interesting. I wonder, >> you know, is it? Is it? I don't want to say second tier, that's the wrong word, but kind of what I'm thinking, you know, kind of these other institutions that the schools that don't necessarily have the super top in cachet, you know who are forced to be innovative, right? We're number two. We try harder. As they used to say in the in the Hertz commercial. Um, really a lot of creativity coming out of again the community colleges last year in L. A. Which I was, I was blown away, that kind of understand cause that specifically to skill people up to get a job. But now you're hearing it in much more kind of traditional institutions and doing really innovative things like the thing with the the Marines teaching active duty Marines about data science. >> Yeah, who came up with that idea that phenomenal Well, you know, data permeates every threat. It's not just impure data science, jobs and machine learning jobs. There's air brilliantly important, but it's also in marketing jobs and business jobs. And so on. Dad Analytics, that intelligence, security, cybersecurity so important that you think, God, you Northern Virginia Community College in U. S. Marine Corps are working for to make these programs available to their veterans and active military. The other thing is, they're sharing it with the rest of the student by. So that's I think another thing that's happening is this sharing this ability, all of for this cloud degree program that AWS educate is running. All these institutions are sharing their curricula. So the stuff that was done in Los Angeles is being learned in Virginia is the stuff that the U. S Marine Corps is doing is being available to students. Who are you not in military occupations? I think that collaboration mode is is amazing. The thing they say about community colleges and just this new locus of control for education on dhe. Why it's changing community colleges. You're right there. They're moving fast. These institutions have a bias for action. They know they have to. You change the r A. Y right? It's about preventing students for this work for, but they also serve as a flywheel to those four year institutions back to the 12 into the into the workforce and they hit you underserved audience. Is that the rest? So that you were not all picking from the same crew? You cannot keep going to just your lead institutions and recruit. We have to grow that pipeline. So you thank thank these places for moving quick brand operating for their student, right? >> Right, And and And that's where the innovation happens, right? I mean, that's that's, uh, that that's goodness. And the other thing that that was pretty interesting was, um, you know, obviously Skilling people up to get jobs. You need to hire him. That's pretty. That's pretty obvious and simple, but really bringing kind of big data attitude analytics attitude into the universities across into the research departments and the medical schools. And you think at first well, of course, researchers are data centric, right? They've been doing it that way for a long time, but they haven't been doing it and kind of the modern big, big data, real time analytics, you know, streaming data, not sampling data, all the data. So so even bringing that type of point of view, I don't know mindset to the academic institutions outside of what they're doing for the students. >> Absolutely. The machine learning is really changing the game. This notion of big data, the way that costs have gone down in terms of storing and utilizing data and right, it's streaming data. It's non Columbia or down, as opposed to yeah, the old pure sequel set up right that that is a game changer. No longer can you make just can you make a theory and tested out theories air coming streaming by looking at that data and letting it do some work for you, which is kind of machine learning, artificial intelligence path, and it's all becoming democratized. So, yes, researchers need to need learn these new past two to make sense and tow leverage. This with that big data on the medical center site, there are cures that can be discerned again. Some of our most pressing diseases by leveraging data way gonna change. And we, by the way, we gotta change that mindset, not just yeah, the phD level, but actually at the K 12 levels. Are kids learning the right skills to prepare them for you this new big data world once they get into higher ed, right? And then the last piece, which again we've seen >> on the Enterprise. You've kind of seen the movie on the enterprise side in terms of of cloud adoption. What AWS has done is at first it's a better, more efficient way to run your infrastructure. It's, you know, there's a whole bunch of good things that come from running a cloud infrastructure, but >> that's not. But that's not the end, right? The answer to the question >> is the innovation right? It's It's the speed of change, of speed development and some of the things that we're seeing here around the competitive nature of higher education, trying to appeal to the younger kids because you're competing for their time and attention in there. And they're dollar really interesting stuff with Alexa and some of these other kind of innovation, which is where the goodness really starts to pay off on a cloud investment. >> Yeah, without a doubt, Alexa Week AWS came up with robo maker and Deep Racer on our last reinvent, and there's there's organizations at the K 12 level like First Robotics and Project lead. The way they're doing really cool stuff by making this this relevant it you education becomes more relevant when kids get to do hands on stuff. A W S lowers the price for failure lowers the ability you can just open a browser and do real world hands on bay hands on stuff robotics, a rvr that all of these things again are game changers inside the classroom. But you also have to connect it to jobs at the end, right? And if your educational institutions can become more relevant to their students in terms of preparing them for jobs like they've done in Santa Monica College and like they're doing in Northern Virginia Community College across the state of Louisiana and by May putting the real world stuff in the hands of their kids, they will then start to attract assumes. We saw this happen in Santa Monica. They opened up one class, a classroom of 35 students that sold out in a day. They opened another co ward of 35 sold out in another day or two. The name went from 70 students. Last year, about 325 they opened up this California cloud workforce project where they now have 825 students of five. These Northern Virginia Community College. They're they're cloud associate degree that they ran into tandem with AWS Educate grew from 30 students at the start of the year to well over 100. Now the's programs will drive students to them, right and students will get a job at the end. >> Right? Right, well and can. And can the school support the demand? I mean, that's That's a problem we see with CS, right? Everyone says, Tell your kids to take CS. They want to take CS. Guess what? There's no sections, hope in C. S. So you know, thinking of it in a different way, a little bit more innovative way providing that infrastructure kind of ready to go in a cloud based way. Now we'll hopefully enable them to get more kids and really fulfill the demand. >> Absolutely. There's another thing with professional development. I think you're hitting on, so we definitely have a shortage in terms of teachers who are capable to teach about software development and cloud architecture and data sciences and cybersecurity. So we're putting AWS educators putting a specific focus on professional development. We also want to bring Amazonian, Tze and our customers and partners into the classroom to help with that, because the work based learning and the focus on subject matter expert experts is also important. But we really need to have programs both from industry as well as government out support new teachers coming into this field and in service training for existing teachers to make sure, because yes, we launch those programs and students will come. We have to make sure that were adequately preparing teachers. It's not it's not. It's not easy, but again, we're seeing whether it's Koda Cole out of yeah out of, uh, Roosevelt High School. Are the people that were working with George Mason University and so on were seeing such an appetite for making change for their students? And so they're putting in those extra hours they're getting that AWS certification, and they're getting stronger, prepared to teach inside the clients. >> That's amazing, cause right. Teachers have so many conflict ing draws on their time, many of which have nothing to do with teaching right whether it's regulations. And there's just so many things the teachers have to deal with. So you know the fact that they're encouraged. The fact that they want t to spend and invest in this is really a good sign and really a nice kind of indicator to you and the team that, you know, you guys were hitting something really, really positive. >> Yeah, I think we've had its this foam oh fear of missing out opportunity. There's the excitement of the cloud. There's the excitement of watching your kids. You're really transformed their lives. And it could be Alfredo Cologne who came over from Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria. You wiped out his economic potential and started taking AWS educate. And you're learning some of these pathways and then landing a job as the Dev Ops engineered. When you see the transformation in your students, no matter what their background is, it is. It is a game changer. This has got to be you. Listen, I love watching that women's team when I win the World Cup, and that the excitement cloud is like the new sport. Robotics is the new sport for these kids. They'll bring them on >> pathways to career, right. We'll take for taking a few minutes in The passion comes through, Andrew Koza big passion guy. And we know Teresa is a CZ Well, so it shines through and keep doing good work. >> Thank you so much for the time. Alright, he's can on Jeff. You're watching the cube. We're in downtown Seattle. A aws. Imagine e d. Thanks for watching. >> We'll see you next time.

>> from Seattle WASHINGTON. It's the Q covering AWS Imagine brought to you by Amazon Web service is >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeffrey here with the Cube were in Seattle, >> Washington downtown, right next to the convention center for the AWS. Imagine e d. You show. It's a second year of the show found by Andrew Cohen. His crew, part of Theresa's public sector group, really focused on education. Education means everything from K through 12 higher education, community college education, getting out of the military and retraining education. It's ah, it's a really huge category, and it's everything from, you know, getting the colleges to do a better job by being on cloud infrastructure, innovating and really thinking outside the box are really excited to have the man who's doing a lot of the work on the curriculum development in the education is Ken Eisner is the director of worldwide education programs for AWS. Educate can Great to see you. Thank you so much for having absolutely nice shot out this morning by Theresa, she said. She just keeps asking you for more. So >> you want to deliver for Theresa. Carl says she is. She is a dynamo, and she drives us >> all she does, so just dive into it a little bit. So, you know, there was, Ah, great line that they played in the keynote with Andy talking about, You know, we cannot be protecting old institutions. We need to think about the kids is a story I hear all the time where somebody came from a time machine from 17 76 and landed here today. It wouldn't recognize how we talk, how we get around, but they would recognize one thing, and unfortunately, that's the school house down at the end of the block. So you guys are trying to change that. You're really trying to revolutionize what's happening in education, give us a little bit of background on some of the specific things that you're working on today. >> Yeah, I think Andy, one of the things that he mentioned at that time was that education is really in a crisis on. We need to be inventing at a rapid rate. We need to show that invented, simple, fine inside education, and he's incredibly, he's correct. The students are our customers and we've got to be changing things for them. What we've been really excited to see is that with this giant growth in cloud computing a W. S. It was the fastest I T vendor to ever a $10,000,000,000 a year. The run rate. We're now growing at a 42% or 41% year over year growth Ray and $31,000,000,000 a year Lee company. It's creating this giant cloud computing opportunity, cloud computing in the number one linked in skill for the past four years in Rome. When we look at that software development to cloud architecture to the data science and artificial intelligence and data analytics and cyber security rules. But we're not preparing kids for this. Market Gallop ran a study that that showed about 11% of business executives thought that students were prepared for their jobs. It's not working, It's gotta change. And the exciting thing that's happening right now is workforce development. Governments are really pushing for change in education, and it's starting to happen right? It's pretty amazing were here last year. >> The team last year was very much round the community college releases and the certification of the associate programs and trial down in Southern California, and this year I've been surprised. We've had two guests on where it's the state governor has pushed these initiatives not at the district level, the city level, but from the state winning both Louisiana as well as Virginia. That's pretty amazing support to move in such an aggressive direction and really a new area. >> Yeah, I was actually just moderating a panel where we had Virginia, Louisiana, in California, all sitting down talking about that scaling statewide strategy. We had announcements from the entire CUNY and Sunni or City University of New York and State University of New York system to do both to end four year programs in Cloud Computing. And Louisiana announced it with their K 12 system, their community college system and their four year with Governor John Bel Edwards making the announcement two months ago. So right, we are seeing this scaling consortium, a play where institutions are collaborating across themselves. They're collaborating vertically with your higher ed and K 12 and yet direct to the workforce because we need to be hiring people at such a rapid ray that we we need to be also putting a lot of skin in the game. And that story that happened So again, I agree with Andy said. Education is at a crisis. But now we're starting to see change makers inside of education, making that move right. It's interesting. I wonder, >> you know, is it is it? I don't want to say second tier, that's the wrong word, but kind of what I'm thinking, you know, kind of these other institutions that the schools that don't necessarily have the super top in cachet, you know who are forced to be innovative, right? We're number two. We try harder. As they used to say in the in the Hertz commercial. Um, really a lot of creativity coming out of again the community colleges last year in L. A. Which I was, I was blown away, that kind of understand cause that specifically to skill people up to get a job. But now you're hearing it in much more kind of traditional institutions and doing really innovative things like the thing with the the Marines teaching active duty Marines about data science. >> Yeah, who came up with that idea that phenomenal Well, you know, data permeates every threat. It's not just impure data science, jobs and machine learning jobs. There's air brilliantly important, but it's also in marketing jobs and business jobs. And so on. Dad Analytics that intelligence, security, cybersecurity so important that you think, God, you Northern Virginia Community College in U. S. Marine Corps are working for to make these programs available to their veterans and active military. The other thing is, they're sharing it with the rest of the student by. So that's I think another thing that's happening is this. Sharing this ability all of for this cloud degree program that AWS educate is running. All these institutions are sharing their curricula. So the stuff that was done in Los Angeles is being learned in Virginia's stuff the U. S. Marine Corps is doing is being available to students. Who are you not in military occupations? I think that collaboration mode is is amazing, the thing they say about community colleges and just this new locus of control for education on dhe. Why it's changing community colleges. You're right there. They're moving fast. These institutions have a bias for action. They know they have to. You change the r A. Y right. It's about preventing students for this work for, but they also serve as a flywheel to those four year institutions back to the 12 into the into the workforce and they hit you underserved audience is that the rest is so that you were not all picking from the same crew. You cannot keep going to just share lead institutions and recruit. We have to grow that pipeline. So you thank thank these places for moving quick and operating for their student, right? >> Right, And and And that's where the innovation happens, right? I mean, that's that's, ah, that that's goodness. And the other thing that that was pretty interesting was obviously Skilling people up to get jobs, you need to hire him. That's pretty. That's pretty obvious and simple, but really bringing kind of big data attitude analytics attitude into the universities across into the research departments and the medical schools. And you think at first, of course, researchers are data centric, right? They've been doing it that way for a long time, but they haven't been doing it in kind of the modern big, big data. Real time analytics, you know, streaming data, not sampling data, all the data. So so even bringing that type of point of view, I don't know, mindset to the academic institutions outside of what they're doing for the students. >> Absolutely. The machine learning is really changing the game. This notion of big data, the way that costs have gone down in terms of storing and utilizing data and right, it's streaming data. It's non Columbia or down, as opposed to yeah, the old pure sequel set up right that that is a game changer. No longer can you make just can you make a theory and tested out theories air coming streaming by looking at that data and letting it do some work for you, which is kind of machine learning, artificial intelligence path, and it's all becoming democratized. So, yes, researchers need to need learn these new past two to make sense and tow leverage. This with that big data on the medical center site, there are cures that could be discerned again some of our most pressing diseases by leveraging data, way gonna change. And we, by the way, we gotta change that mindset, not just yeah, the phD level, but actually at the K 12 levels. Are kids learning the right skills to prepare them for you? This new big data world once they get into higher ed, right? And then the last piece, which again we've seen >> on the Enterprise. You've kind of seen the movie on the enterprise side in terms of of cloud adoption. What AWS has done is at first it's a better, more efficient way to run your infrastructure. It's, you know, there's a whole bunch of good things that come from running a cloud infrastructure, but >> that's not. But that's not the end, right? The answer to the question >> is the innovation right? It's It's the speed of change, of speed, a development and some of the things that we're seeing here around the competitive nature of higher education, trying to appeal to the younger kids because you're competing for their time and attention in there. And they're dollar really interesting stuff with Alexa and some of these other kind of innovation, which is where the goodness really starts to pay off on a cloud investment. >> Yeah, without a doubt, Alexa Week AWS came up with robo maker and Deep Racer on our last reinvent, and there's there's organizations at the K 12 level like First Robotics and project lead the way they're doing really cool stuff by making this this relevant you education becomes more relevant when kids get to do hands on stuff. A W S lowers the price for failure lowers the ability you can just open a browser and do real world hands on bay hands on stuff. Robotics, A R V R. That all of these things again are game changers inside the classroom. But you also have to connect it to jobs at the end, right? And if your educational institutions can become more relevant to their students in terms of preparing them for jobs like they've done in Santa Monica College and like they're doing in Northern Virginia Community College across the state of Louisiana and by May putting the real world stuff in the hands of their kids, they will then start to attract assumes. We saw this happen in Santa Monica. They opened up one class, a classroom of 35 students that sold out in a day. They opened another co ward of 35 sold out in another day or two. The name went from 70 students. Last year, about 325 they opened up this California Cloud Workforce Project, where they now have 825 students of five. These Northern Virginia Community College. They're they're cloud associate degree that they ran in tandem with AWS Educate grew from 30 students at the start of the year to well over 100. Now these programs will drive students to them right and students will get a job at the end. >> Right? Right, well in Ken. And can the schools sports a demand? That's that's a problem we see with CS, right? Everyone says, Tell your kids to take CS. They want to take CS. Guess what? There's no sections, hope in C. S. So you know, thinking of it in a different way, a little bit more innovative way providing that infrastructure kind of ready to go in a cloud based way. Now we'll hopefully enable them to get more kids and really fulfill the demand. >> Absolutely. There's another thing with professional development. I think you're hitting on, so we definitely have a shortage in terms of teachers who are capable to teach about software development and cloud architecture and data sciences and cybersecurity. So we're putting a W. C. Educate is putting a specific focus on professional development. We also want to bring Amazonian, Tze and our customers and partners into the classroom to help with that, because the work based learning and the focus on subject matter expert experts is also important. But we really need to have programs both from industry as well as government out support new teachers coming into this field and in service training for existing teachers to make sure, because yes, we launch those programs and students will come. We have to make sure that were adequately preparing teachers. It's not, it's not. It's not easy, but again, we're seeing whether it's Koda Cole out of out of, uh Roosevelt High School. Are the people that were working with George Mason University and so on were seeing such an appetite >> for >> making change for their students? And so they're putting in those extra hours they're getting that AWS certification, and they're getting stronger, prepared to teach inside the class. That's >> amazing, cause right. Teachers have so many conflict ing draws on their time, many of which have nothing to do with teaching right whether it's regulations and there's just so many things the teachers have to deal with. So you know the fact that they're encouraged the fact that they want t to spend and invest in this is really a good sign and really a nice kind of indicator to you and the team that, you know, you guys were hitting something really, really positive. >> Yeah, I think we've had its this foam oh fear of missing out opportunity. There's the excitement of the cloud. There's the excitement of watching your kids. You're really transformed their lives. And it could be Alfredo Cologne who came over from Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria. You wiped out his economic potential and started taking AWS educate and you're learning some of these pathways and then landing a job has the Dev ops engineer to Michael Brown, who went through that Santa Monica problem and >> landed an >> internship with Annika. When you see the transformation in your students, no matter what their background is, it is. It is a game changer. This has got to be you. Listen, I love watching that women's team when I win the World Cup, and that the excitement cloud is like the new sport. Robotics is the new sport for these kids. They'll bring them on >> pathways to career, right, well, take for taking a few minutes in The passion comes through Andrew Koza, Big passion guy. And we know Teresa is as well. So it shines through and keep doing good work. >> Thank you so much for the time. Alright, He's Can I'm Jeff, You're watching the Cube. We're in downtown Seattle. A aws. Imagine E d. Thanks for >> watching. We'll see you next time.

>> Man: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering Red Hat Summit 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat. >> And we are back live in Boston as we continue our coverage here on theCUBE of Red Hat Summit 2019. It is our sixth year here at the show and this year obviously some huge announcements. A significant moment it's been for Red Hat, we heard from Jim Whitehurst a little bit ago. Stu Miniman, John Walls, we're now joined as well by Niall Fitzgerald, who is the GM of IT Application Architecture and Design at Spark NZ. Niall, good afternoon, or I guess good morning still we're in an Eastern time zone. >> Yeah it's the middle of the night in New Zealand I'd say. >> Yeah, so Spark NZ New Zealand. Tell us a little bit first off about Spark NZ. What the folks back home are doing right now, work-wise, and your role with the company. >> Yeah, so Spark is the largest provider of telecommunication services in New Zealand. All the traditional type of services you'd expect, mobile, broadband, et cetera. We came out of the traditional kind of post office, so we've a lot of heritage, and about four years ago we rebranded from Telecom New Zealand into Spark. To represent that we were changing from being a telco into much broader range of digital services. Our purpose is to help all New Zealanders win big in the digital world. >> Niall, step back for a second. Talk to our audience that might not know the telecom industry as well as you, I've been an observer and participator in the industry but you know back in the dot com boom it was like limitless bandwidth and we're gonna do all these wonderful things, and cloud and digitization, have put some new opportunities as well as stresses and strains on your industry so, you know what's going on and you said you rebranded? >> Yeah, look, I think it's well-known it's been a tough last few years for most telcos in the world. I was listening to Red Hat talking yesterday about 60 consecutive quarters or more of growth, I don't think there's any telco in the world that probably has the same story. Like most, we're facing kinda decline in all the traditional revenues like voice and text and things like that, so we're all having to kinda rebrand ourselves and deliver much higher levels of customer service. People expect the same levels of service from us that they do from Amazon, Google, and everyone else. In Spark what that means to us is we've moved into lots of new things as you said, things like ICT, we're now very big in cloud, we've recently launched a Spark Sports brand and we've got streaming right to the key events like Formula 1. We're going to stream the Rugby World Cup, which is a massive event for New Zealanders, so looking forward to seeing that and Ireland on the all blacks in the final in September this year. So yeah, lot going on. Tough times but forcing us to keep changing every year. >> And so, about these changes that you're making whether technologically based, let's just deal with that. What is that ultimately going to do for you in terms of better customer service delivery? So, you've got inherent challenges, you've talked about them at all, that the world's changing, how we use this medium, this communication opportunity is changing, and you've been just a little behind the wave, hard to keep up with it, so rapidly changing. How much of a challenge is that? And then how are you going to address this going forward? How do you stay relevant? >> Yeah I think we're lucky in one regard because if I look back about five, seven years ago we were like most traditional telcos. We had a spaghetti for want of a better description of systems, and then we had all was multiples of everything, at the time we had 19 integration layers and 10 billing systems and it wasn't uncommon. But way back in 2012 we actually embarked on a massive transformation program, and we spent five years consolidating all of that infrastructure so going into about 2017 we were very lucky in that we had a massive foundation laid already, so what that then enabled us to do was to actually push away calls from our contact centers into mobile apps, into digital adoption. We've been a big embracer of things like big data and robotic process automation as well to try and take cost out of our industry. So, I think we're quite well placed. Now that allows us to do things like innovate new products for our customers so we bundle things like Spotify and Netflix. It allows to introduce things like Spark Sports brand, which we couldn't have done five years ago before the transformation We just wouldn't have been able to enable these things with our existing kind of legacy IT estate. >> So how's open-source play into all this for you? >> Yeah open-source, I suppose our first foray into open-source was when we went to start embracing big data and automation. So we started using things like Hadoop and various other things and our entire platform is based around open-source. We changed to an IMS network recently and we started embracing things like OpenStack, and then it really took us to a new level recently when we started working on Red Hat's Fuse, and OpenShift we started implementing that. >> Okay, so the OpenStack show for many years, the last few years we saw the telcos coming in specifically for network function virtualization or NFV. Is that what you're using in that space? >> Yeah, we are. Interestingly, at this conference I've heard a lot of people talk about OpenShift and OpenStack, obviously, particularly in the telco game. We actually came out a bit differently from the application space. So we had an integration platform that we had put in through this transformation phase which had served us well, and was connecting all of our 40, 50 systems together. But it was coming up to a life cycle event, and we decided we'd look externally and see had we options beyond just upgrading it. So we started looking around, and we effectively found Fuse, and in bringing in Fuse we then brought OpenShift in, which is quite different to what I've seen from a number of other people, they're bringing in things like OpenShift and building on top of it. We did it the other way around, you know? And we did it primarily for cost reasons, you know? >> Yeah, so talk a little bit about that impact of Fuse and OpenShift, what that means. Were you already down the containerization journey, or did that help drive >> Niall: No, no some of that modernization? >> That's exactly what happened. If I'm honest we hadn't really explored containerization too much because we had come to the end of our kind of transformation journey. Open-source and containerization wasn't around when we went through that. So we kinda needed some really core reasons to move on, so, yeah effectively what happened was we looked at Fuse, I was gonna say primarily for cost, but we were looking for something that we could migrate to where it makes sense. We were looking for something that wasn't a massive lift for the people who worked in our integration already, so they could be rescaled into it, and interestingly we turned agile recently which has changed the way we look at the needs of our systems. So our old integration platform, if we needed to deploy a change we had to take an outage, which was fine when we had a centralized IT department who deployed once a month and took a two hour outage, but when you have 20 tribes all developing features in isolation and they wanna go straight through to production, if everybody took an outage then our systems wouldn't really be up very often. So one of the key things that we were looking at for our new integration platform was can we deploy hot and can we scale? So that's basically where Fuse came into us. >> Okay, so can you? >> We can and we do. Still a little bit nervous about pressing the button mid-day and doing stuff >> Right, simultaneously and thinking this has really gotta work, right? >> Yeah then normally, >> We saw it today though on the demo stage, on the keynote. You know, simultaneous operations going on. >> No, we do it, and they normally don't tell me when they're doing it they just do it and tell me it worked afterwards, but no it's actually been really successful and you can imagine connection 40 or 50 systems together is effectively the equivalent of about 2,000 API's and we managed to migrate, we're about 70% of the way through. But we've managed to migrate those without actually impacting the systems that use them and that's probably been one of our most successful IT projects that I've seen. >> It's funny, you said we were towards the end of our transformation journey, and of course I think we all understand, it is just, I might've reached a marker in my journey, but it needs to be a continuous process. And you went through an agile transformation. So bring us in a little bit. Organizationally, what happened there. Some of the good, the bad, and the ugly of agile, 'cause I mean agile's always an ongoing thing. >> It is, yeah. So about the start of last year we started to think about agile and the need to change our ways of working. And we looked at a number of models overseas, and companies like Spotify and various banks, and we settled on a model of chapter and tribes. And we took about six months in looking at what that meant for us as an organization and all of the things that we needed to change. Everything from, people's contracts to people's titles. We got rid of all complex titles and moved down to simple things like Developer, Tester, et cetera. We had to train our people in agile so we ran boot camps for over 2,000 people. We had one with 500 people attend. We had to review all of our processes and see where we had centralized things like IT governance or procurement. How do you actually manage this when you have up to 20 different people effectively, or tribes doing their own developments, so over a period of about six months we went through all of these. We started with a concept of some forerunner tribes so we could figure out how this thing actually works, you know? And get some lessons. And then on the first of July last year, about a 2,000 people in various buildings packed up their stuff in their desks and moved into a new world, into their tribes with different working spaces and different collaboration areas and all the tools that we need. So, yeah we're about nine months down that journey now and it's been good. >> How many total employees? >> We have about 5,000 in total. >> 5,000, so you had 500 at one time. 10% of your workforce in training at one time. >> That's right, yeah. Absolutely. >> How do you keep the wheels on the bus rolling? Because I mean you're asking people not only to learn new skills, but learn them in a new environment, and learn them literally in a new place. I mean that's just massive change and I think, we're human beings. We're creatures of habit to a certain extent. You had to hit a lot of bumps along the way. >> Yeah, so one of the key things we did upfront was we said the operate part of our business, which is effectively things like our contact center, our sales staff, our service desks, we will not go agile with those on the first day, because they operate in a slightly different way of working. The people in our stores, et cetera. So we had a concept of agile light and agile heavy. So we kinda parked them for a minute so that we wouldn't do exactly what you say and let the wheels fall off the trolley. And we took to people that were the IT developers, the product development staff, and all of that, which came to just over about 2,000 people, and we firstly flipped those 2,000 people and put those through bootcamp. But even as you say, scheduling the boot camps, we made sure that we always had the right people on the ground and we would schedule smaller boot camps for them later if we needed to do it, but yeah. >> So nine months in now. You talking to your peers, if they're gonna go through. Any key learnings, what were some of the most challenging things that you ran into? >> I think probably the major one is that agile at its heart is a way of working, and despite the name it's actually quite prescriptive in how you should work, you know? When you pick up the agile book it tells you all the ceremonies you need to run and the processes that you need to run as well. And I think you need to be pragmatic in how you implement it because there are so many different flavors of agile. The one flavor, even with an organization of Spark size, it doesn't work. So the tribes and squads that are building out new products compared to the tribes that are doing things like upgrading systems, they will work in different ways. So I think the first thing is be pragmatic, take the goodness and the intent of agile, but implement it in how it works for you. And there's some other practical considerations, like prior to being agile we had quite a large number of our technology partners were based offshore in India, and you know it's quite difficult to run a 10 AM stand up in New Zealand setting the priorities for the day and the sprint plans, when, you know, four members of your team are asleep in India. You know, they're missing out on all of the goodness and the collocation and the sharing, so one of the things we had anticipated that, so luckily enough we had moved a lot of those people onshore in advance of agile, you know? But it is a big cultural change for everyone in the organization, not least the leadership teams as well. >> John: Well you got through it. >> We got through it, but there's no going back. >> Absolutely, no you're in the deep end now. Well, Niall, thanks for being with us, we appreciate the time joining us here on theCUBE, and I think that an Irishman is always welcomed in Boston. >> Thank you very much! We've been enjoying the hospitality. >> Yeah the door's always open. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. Niall Fitzgerald, joing us from Spark NZ. Back with more here on theCUBE, you're watching this live at the Red Hat Summit 2019.

>> Live, from Las Vegas! It's theCube! Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone, it's theCube's live coverage in Las Vegas for VMworld 2018, it's theCube. We got two sets, 24 interviews per day, 94 interviews total. Next three days, we're in day two of three days coverage. It's our ninth year of covering VMworld. It's been great. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, next guest, Cube alumni, number one in the leading boards right now, Sanjay Poonen did a great job today on stage, keynote COO for VMware. Great to have you back. Thanks for coming on. >> John and Dave, you're always so kind to me, but I didn't realize you've been doing this nine years. >> This is our ninth year. >> That's half the life of VMware, awesome. Unreal. Congratulations. >> We know all the stories, all the hidden, nevermind, let's talk about your special day today. You had a really, so far, an amazing day, you were headlining the key note with a very special guest, and you did a great job. I want you to tell the story, who was on, what was the story about, how did this come about? Tech for good, a big theme in this conference has really been getting a lot of praise and a lot of great feedback. Take us through what happened today. >> Well listen, I think what we've been trying to do at VMware is really elevate our story and our vision. Elevate our partnerships, you've covered a lot of the narrative of what we've done with Andy Jessie. We felt this year, we usually have two 90 minute sessions, Day One, Day Two, and it's filled with content. We're technical company, product. We figured why don't we take 45 minutes out of the 180 minutes total and inspire people. With somebody who's had an impact on the world. And when we brainstormed, we had a lot of names suggested, I think there was a list of 10 or 15 and Malala stood out, she never spoke at a tech conference before. I loved her story, and we're all about education. The roots of VMware were at Stamford Campus. Diane Greene, and all of that story. You think about 130 million girls who don't go to school. We want to see more diversity in inclusion, and she'd never spoken so I was like, you know what, usually you go to these tech conferences and you've heard somebody who's spoken before. I'm like, lets invite her and see if she would come for the first time, and we didn't think she would. And we were able to score that, and I was still a little skeptical 'cause you never know is it going to work out or not. So thank you for saying it worked, I think we got a lot of good feedback. >> Well, in your first line, she was so endearing. You asked her what you thought a tech conference, you said too many acronyms. She just cracked the place up immediately. >> And then you heard my response, right? If somebody tells me like that, you tell VMotion wrong she looked at me what? >> Tell them about our story, real quick, our story I want to ask you a point in question. Her story, why her, and what motivated you to get her? >> Those stories, for any of you viewers, you should read the book "I'm Malala" but I'll give you the short version of the story. She was a nine year old in the Pashtun Area of the Swat Valley in Pakistan, and the Taliban setted a edict that girls could not go to school. Your rightful place was whatever, stay at home and become a mom with babies or whatever have you. You cannot go to school. And her father ran a school, Moster Yousafzai, wonderful man himself, an educator, a grandfather, and says know what, we're going to send you to school. Violating this order, and they gave a warning after warning and finally someone shot her in 2012, almost killed her. The bullet kind of came to her head, went down, and miraculously she escaped. Got on a sort of a hospital on a plane, was flown to London, and the world if you remember 2012, the world was following the story. She comes out of this and she's unscathed. She looks normal, she has a little bit of a thing on the right side of her face but her brains normal, everything's normal. Two years later she wins the Nobel Peace Prize. Has started the Malala Fund, and she is a force of nature, an amazing person. Tim Cook has been doing a lot with her in the Malala Fund. I think that actually caught my attention when Tim Cook was working with her, and you know whatever Apple does often gets a little bit of attention. >> Well great job selecting her. How's that relevant to what you guys are doing now, because you guys had a main theme Tech for Good? Why now, why VMware? A lot of people are looking at this, inspired by it. >> There are milestones in companies histories. We're at our 20 year birthday, and I'm sure at people's birthday they want to do big things, right? 20, 30, 40, 50, these decades are big ones and we thought, lets make this year a year to remember in various things we do. We had a 20 year anniversary celebration on campus, we invited Diane Greene back. It was a beautiful moment internally at Vmware during one of our employee meetings. It was a private moment, but just with her to thank her. And man, there were people emotional almost in tears saying thank you for starting this company. A way to give back to us, same way here. What better way to talk about the impact we're having in the community than have someone who is of this reputation. >> Well we're behind your mission 100%, anything you need. We loved the message, Tech for Good, people want to work for a mission driven company. People want to buy >> We hope so. >> from mission driven companies, that stated clear and the leadership you guys are providing is phenomenal. >> We had some rankings that came out around the same time. Fortune ranked companies who are changing the world, and VMware was ranked 17th overall, of all companies in the world and number one in the software category. So when you're trying to change the world, hopefully as you pointed out it's also an attractor of talent. You want to come here, and maybe even attractor of customers and partners. >> You know the other take-away was from the key note was how many Cricket fans there are in the VMworld Community. Of course we have a lot of folks from India, in our world but who's your favorite Cricketer? Was it Sachin Tendulkar? (laughs) >> Clearly you're reading off your notes Dave! >> Our Sonya's like our, >> Dead giveaway! >> Our Sonya's like our Cricket Geek and she's like, ask him about Sachin, no who's your favorite Cricketer, she wants to know. >> Sachin Tendulkar's way up there, Shayuda Free, the person she likes from Pakistan. I grew up playing cricket, listen I love all sports now that I'm here in this country I love football, I love basketball, I like baseball. So I'll watch all of them, but you know you kind of have those childhood memories. >> Sure >> And the childhood memories were like she talk about, India, Pakistan games. I mean this was like, L.A. Dodgers playing Giants or Red Socks, Yankee's, or Dallas Cowboys and the 49ers, or in Germany playing England or Brazil in the World Cup. Whatever your favorite country or team rivalry is, India Pakistan was all there more, but imagine like a billion people watching it. >> Yeah, well it was a nice touch on stage, and I'd say Ted Williams is my favorite cricketer, oh he plays baseball, he's a Red Sock's Player. Alright Sanjay, just cause your in the hot seat, lets get down to business here. Great moment on stage, congratulation. Okay Pat Gelsinger yesterday on the key note talked about the bridges, VMware bridging, connecting computers. One of the highlights is kind of in your wheelhouse, it's in your wheelhouse, the BYOD, Bring Your Own Device bridge. You're a big part of that. Making that work on on the mobile side. Now with Cloud this new bridge, how is that go forward because you still got to have all those table stakes, so with this new bridge of VMware's in this modern era, cloud and multicloud. Cluely validated, Andy Jassy, on stage. Doing something that Amazon's never done before, doing something on premise with VMware, is a huge deal. I mean we think it's a massive deal, we think it's super important, you guys are super committed to the relationship on premises hybrid cloud, multicloud, is validated as far as we're concerned. It's a done deal. Now ball's in your court, how are you going to bring all that mobile together, security, work space one, what's your plan? >> I would say that, listen on as I described in my story today there's two parts to the VMware story. There's a cloud foundation part which is the move the data center to the cloud in that bridge, and then there's the desk job move it to the mobile. Very briefly, yes three years of my five years were in that business, I'm deeply passionate about it. Much of my team now that I put in place there, Noah and Shankar are doing incredible jobs. We're very excited, and the opportunity's huge. I said at my key note of the seven billion people that live in the world, a billion I estimate, work for some company small or big and all of them have a phone. Likely many of those billion have a phone and a laptop, like you guys have here, right? That real estate of a billion in a half, maybe two billion devices, laptops and phones, maybe in some cases laptop, phone, and tablets. Someone's going to manage and secure, and their diverse across Apple, Google, big option for us. We're just getting started, and we're already the leader. In the data center, the cloud world, Pat, myself, Raghu, really as we sat three years ago felt like we shouldn't be a public cloud ourselves. We divested vCloud Air, as I've talked to you on your show before, Andy Jassy is a friend, dear friend and a classmate of mine from Harvard Business School. We began those discussions the three of us. Pat, Raghu, and myself with Andy and his team and as every quarter and year has gone on they become deeper and deep partnerships. Andy has told other companies that VMware Amazon is the model partnership Amazon has, as they describe who they would like to do business more with. So we're proud when they do that, when we see that happen. And we want to continue that. So when Amazon came to us and said listen I think there's an opportunity to take some of our stack and put it on premise. We kept that confidential cause we didn't want it to leak out to the world, and we said we're going to try'n annouce it at either VMworld or re:Invent. And we were successful. A part with these projects is they inevitably leak. We're really glad no press person sniffed it out. There was a lot of speculation. >> Couldn't get confirmation. >> There was a lot of speculation but no one sniffed it out and wrote a story about it, we were able to have that iPhone moment today, I'm sorry, yesterday when we unveiled it. And it's a big deal because RDS is a fast growing business for them. RDS landing on premise, they could try to do on their own but what better infrastructure to land it on than VMware. In some cases would be VMware running on VxRail which benefits Dell, our hardware partners. And we'll continue doing more, and more, and more as customers desire, so I'm excited about it. >> Andy doesn't do deals, as you know Andy well as we do. He's customer driven. Tell me about the customer demand on this because it's something we're trying to get reporting on. Obviously it makes sense, technically the way it's working. You guys and Andy, they just don't do deals out of the blue. There's customer drivers here, what are those drivers? >> Yeah, we're both listening to our customers and perhaps three, four, five years ago they were very focused on student body left, everybody goes public cloud. Like forget your on premise, evaporate, obliterate your data centers and just go completely public. That was their message. >> True, sweep the floor. >> Right, if you went to first re:Invent I was there on stage with them as an SAP employee, that's what I heard. I think you fast forward to 2014, 2015 they're beginning to realize, hey listen it's not as easy. Refactoring your apps, migrating those apps, what if we could bring the best of private cloud and public cloud together enter VMware and Amazon. He may have felt it was harder to have those cultivations of VMware or for all kinds of reasons, like we had vCloud Air and so on and so forth but once we divested that decision culminations had matured between us that door opened. And as that door opened, more culminations began. Jointly between us and with customers. We feel that there are customers who want many of those past type of services of premise. Cause you're building great things, relational database technology, AI, VI maybe. IoT type of technologies if they are landing on premise in an edge-computing kind of world, why not land on VMware because we're the king of the private cloud. We're very happy to those, we progress those discussion. I think in infrastructure software VMware and Amazon have some of the best engineers on the planet. Sometimes we've engineers who've gone between both companies. So we were able to put our engineering team's together. This is a joint engineering effort. Andy and us often talk about the fact that great innovation's built when it's not just Barny go to Marketing and Marketing press releases this. The true joint engineering at a deep level. That's what happened the last several months. >> Well I can tell you right now the commitment I've seen from an executive level and deep technology, both sides are deep and committed to this. It's go big or go home, at least from our perspective. Question I want to ask you Sanjay is you're close to the customer's of VMware. What's the growth strategy? If you zoom out, look down on stage and you got vSAN, NSX at the core, >> vSANjay (laughs) >> How can you not like a product that has my name on it? >> So you got all these things, where's the growth going to come from, the merging side, is the v going to be the stable crown jewels at NSX? How do you guys see the growth, where's it going to come from? >> Just kind of look at our last quarter. I mean if you peel back the narrative, John and Dave, two years ago we were growing single digits. Like low single digits. Two, three percent. That was, maybe the legacy loser description of VMware was the narrative everyone was talking about >> License revenue was flattish right? >> And then now all of sudden we're double digits. 12, 15 sort of in that range for both product revenue. It's harder to grow faster when you're bigger, and what's happened is that we stabilize compute with vSphere in that part and it's actually been growing a little bit because I think people in the VMware cloud provider part of our business, and the halo effect of the cloud meant that as they refresh the servers they were buying more research. That's good. The management business has started to grow again. Some cases double digits, but at least sort of single digits. NSX, the last few order grew like 30, 40%. vSAN last year was growing 100% off a smaller base, this year going 60, 70%. EUC has been growing double digits, taking a lot of share from company's like Citrix and MobileIron and others. And now, also still growing double digits at much bigger paces, and some of those businesses are well over a billion. Compute, management, end-user computing. We talked about NSX on our queue forming called being a 1.4 billion. So when you get businesses to scale, about a billion dollar type businesses and their sort of four, training five that are in that area, and they all get to grow faster than the market. That's the key, you got to get them going fast. That's how you get growth. So we focus on those on those top five businesses and then add a few more. Like VMware Cloud on AWS, right now our goal is customer logo count. Revenue will come but we talked on our earnings call about a few hundred customers of VMware Cloud and AWS. As that gets into the thousands, and there's absolutely that option, why? Because there's 500,000 customers of VMware and two million customers of Amazon, so there's got to be a lot of commonality between those two to get a few thousand. Then we'll start caring about revenue there too, but once you have logos, you have references. Containers, I'd like to see PKS have a few hundred customers and then, we put one on stage today. National Commercial Bank of Jamaica. Fantastic story of PKS. I even got my PKS socks for this interview. (John laughs) >> So that give you a sense as to how we think, there will be four, five that our businesses had scale and then a few are starting to get there, and they become business to scale. The nature of software is we'll always be doing this show because there will be new businesses to talk about. >> Yeah, hardware is easy. Software is hard, as Andy Patchenstien said on theCUBE yesterday. Congratulations Sanjay and all the success, you guys are doing great financially. Products looking really good coming out, the bloom is rising from the fruit you guys have harvested, coming together. >> John if I can say one last thing, I shared a picture of a plane today and I put two engines behind it. There's something I've learned over the last years about focus of a company, and I joked about different ways that my name's are pronounced but at the core of me there's a DNA. I said on stage I'd rather not be known as smart or stupid but having a big heart. VMware, I hope is known by our customers as having these two engines. An engine of innovation, innovating product and a variety of other things. And focused on customer obsession. We do those, the plane will go a long way. >> And it's looking good you guys, we can say we've been to Radio Event, we've been doing a lot of great stuff. Congratulations on the initiative, and a great interview with you today on doing Tech for Good and sharing your story. Getting more exposure to the kind of narratives people want to hear. More women in tech, more girls in tech, more democratization. Congratulations and thanks so much for sharing. >> Thank you John and Dave. >> Appreciate you being here. >> Sanjay Poonen, COO of VMware. Friend of theCUBE, Cube Alumni, overall great guy. Big heart and competitive too, we know that from his Twitter stream. Follow Sanjay on Twitter. You'll have a great time. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, stay with us for more coverage from day two live, here in Las Vegas for VMware 2018. Stay with us. (tech music)

(futuristic music) >> Welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're having a CUBE conversation in our Palo Alto studios, we're waiting for the crazy madness of the second half conference season to begin but before that it's nice to get a little bit of a break in the action and we can have people into our studio in Palo Alto. We're really excited to have our next guest really adding to this journey that we've been kind of watching over a course of many years with Informatica, she's Tracey Newell she's the newly announced President, global field operations from Informatica, Tracey great to meet you. >> Yeah nice to meet you. >> Absolutely. So we've following Informatica for a long time, I think our first visit to Informatica world was 2015 back when it was still a public company, I think it was Info which still has this legacy, that's the hashtag for this show. >> It certainly does. >> Which is kind of funny cause it's not really a stock ticker anymore. So it's been quite a journey and really well timed with kind of the big data revolution. You joined the board a couple years ago. >> I did in 2016. >> But you just decided to leave Mahogany Row and take off the board outfit and jump in and get on the field and get dirty. So why did you decide to get into the nitty gritty? >> Yeah so I joined the board because I really believed in the mission so. Digital transformation is something that's real, it's a boardroom discussion. Every enterprise and government around the world's trying to figure this out and so I wanted to be part of that and I've had a front row seat for a couple of years. >> Right right. >> I'm not one to sit on the sidelines for very long and I thought this is just too much fun and I want to get in the game so I asked to step down and I've recently joined as a president of Global Field ops. >> Great so your background is a little bit of confusion due to history, a lot of sales, you've been running sales for lot different companies, been in the valley for a while. But sales is really under you so you haven't really left your sales hat, that's just part of now a bigger role that you're going to be doing with Informatica. >> Yeah that's right, it's a bigger and broader role, but my favorite thing is running sales organizations. So I've done other things too, I've run operations, and customer success, but I was thrilled to join and also run professional services as well cause that's so important to the delivery and for our customers. >> So you'll write the digital transformation, it's the hop topic, it's what everybody is talking about, and it's true and as Informatica is in the middle of it, data is such a big piece of the digital transformation as everybody, we used to joke, there are no companies except software companies. I think we're taking it to the next step, now there are no software companies, really everybody should be a data company, and Informatica is sitting right in the middle of that world. No that's right, yeah data is the new currency, it's become of the most important assets for enterprises, everyone's trying to transform, they're trying to disrupt, they're trying to take on the leader or they're trying to keep their lead. And they need all their information throughout their organization in order to do that and so you know one of the stories hat I really like, Graham Thompson's our CIO and he talks to lots of CIOs and he'll use this analogy in that you know he'll say does your CFO have good containment strategy around their most important asset, and that's revenue. Does your CFO, does he or she know what the data is and inevitably the CIO will say of course. Well that's great does he know or she know how they're spending the money and who's spending the money? Do they have controls and compliance and security around that and of course the answer is yes yes yes and yes. And it inevitably turns to the CIO to say well if data is your most important asset, if that truly is the currency in your organization, do you know where all of your data is? And the answers always no. And there's lots of reasons for that, it's most enterprises have hundreds if not thousands of databases and shadow IT projects everywhere. But if the answers no then how do take advantage and leverage that information to the companies advantage? How do you control it, how do you have compliance and that's where we come in. >> So what's the Informatica special sauce? What's the secret sauce that you guys can bring to the party that nobody else can? >> Yeah so I think inevitably that it would be the platform so our intelligent data platform is really important to the enterprise. The CIOs that I've been meeting with for the last decade have said you know I can't have ten widgets that are all solving a similar problem cause it's just too expensive. I need the bet with the leader in the space and so what we're doing to provide that for enterprises is really important and yet at the same time, you've got to be the best at what you do, you can't just be comprehensive but you have to have best debris technology. We're spending 17 cents of every dollar in r&d and we're so focused on just this one thing, our mission is to lead in digital transformation for the large enterprise and we've been doing this for 25 years so we've spent billions of dollars at making sure our customers are invested in us and that we protect that investment. >> Right. So what is your charge is as you're starting your new role I think the press release just came out a couple days ago. You know what does O'Neil say to you, you know we want you, here's where we want you to go take down that next mountain, what are some of your short term priorities, what are some of your longer term priorities? >> Yeah so we have a great opportunity in front of us. So stating the obvious I'm here to drive growth and expansion both in market share opportunities, we have over nine thousand customers globally and yet we all know that there's a tremendous opportunity to continue direct market shares. This is a global phenomena and yet our largest customers we have 85 of the Fortune 100, they certainly need a lot of support and we're here to help provide that leadership. And we do a lot of best practice sharing, we do a lot around helping customers on their journeys cause we see these themes given that we do work with the largest companies around the world. >> And I'm sure you're going to be getting on a plane and meeting with a whole bunch of customers over the next, over the next several weeks and months but was there something from your board position that you could see was a consistent pattern that you really see an opportunity for growth, kind of an unexploited opportunity as people are going through this digital transformation cause we talk all the time, it's how do I get started and you know I have small projects to give me early success and kind of those types of conversations but clearly we're kind of beyond the beginning and we should be starting to move down the field a little bit. >> Yeah certainly. So we work with all the global SIs and we won't ever try to take their place you know Insentrum, Delite, Capgemeni, Cottonsmith, they're tremendous at what they do and we partner with them very well. But we've absolutely seen consistent themes as we work with these big enterprises, I mean we've seen Coca Cola work on delivering new packaging for the World Cup where they drove exponential sales and they wanted to use the power of all of their data. The data in the Cloud, the data that they have on premise, the data in all the SAS applications and that's where we come in and really help them, helping them to leverage all of their information and to do that in an intelligent way and so we've seen several patterns emerge how customers can get started and we've created a series of workshops and summits and specialists that we we can sell on a pro forma basis in helping customers figure out where those quick fixes are. There's a couple of key big buckets, we see most large enterprise moving from on premise to Cloud and they're trying to figure out a a migration strategy so we help a lot there. Most customers are trying to figure out how to get closer to their customers so we do a lot of work around customer intimacy. Intimacy could be driving the top line, cross sale, up sale, or even customer retention. B&P Paraboss did a lot of work with us there around getting closer to you know in their wealth practice. And then we do quite a bit around governance as you would expect. That's a hot topic with GDPR again if you can't say you know where all your data is well then how can you be compliant? >> Right how can you delete me? >> How can you delete me if you don't know where your data is. There's a number of practices that we've set up and we'll do some not for fee consulting work to help customers try and figure this out. >> Yeah clearly when we first met Informatica in 2015, you know the Cloud was moving, the public Cloud, but it wasn't near what it is today. And I guess you guys just had a recent announcement, Google Cloud Next is coming up in a couple of weeks and so you guys are now doing some stuff with Google Cloud? We are yeah so we're pretty good listeners I think that's important if you're going to be a business partner to your clients you got to know what they want and one of the things that clients have said to us is we need you to partner with our partners. You know the days of proprietary and sole source, you know we're going to be everything to you without working with anyone you know those days are over. And so the key Cloud partners our customers have asked us to work with include Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Azure, so you're right last week we did make an announcement that we've done deep integration and we're spending our r&d dollars for customers that are investing with Google to make those investments more valuable and we announced API management and integration with Google make that easy for customers so. Informatica world we announced native integration in our Ipass platform for Microsoft so over and over again you'll hear us continue to do more with the the partners that our customers want us to and that's a win win for everybody. >> Its just so funny too because when people talk about a company like say Coca Cola which you brought up they talk about it like it's a company. No it's like not a company, it's many many companies, many many projects, many many challenges you know it's not just one entity that has a relationship with one other entity. >> That's right. >> But the other thing I think is interesting times and Coke's a good example or Ford or pick many old line industrial companies that used to have distribution right and what was the purpose of distribution is to break bulk is to communicate information and to get the product close to the customer. But the manufacturer never knew what happened once they shipped that stuff off into their distribution. Now it's a whole different world, they have a direct connection with their in customer, they're collecting data from their in customer, and so they have a relationship and an opportunity and a challenge with that they never had before. They just sent it off to the distributor and off it went and hopefully it doesn't come back for repair. (laughing) >> No that's right but you're exactly right, and that's the challenge that customers are facing. I don't care if it's a customer in the mid market or it's a customer in large enterprise or if it's a government organization. They need to know all aspects of their customer partner supplier information and how to communicate globally if they're going to drive disruption. And one of the CIOs of a Fortune 500 made a comment that we decided that we were going to disrupt ourselves before someone else disrupted us. And that's, that's my comment on why this is a board level discussion, it's super important, and we can help solve those problems. >> It's funny Dave Potrick one of my favorite executives used to be the number two guy at Charles Schwab and I remember him speaking when they went to fix price trading back in the day, I'm aging myself unfortunately but you know he said the same thing, we have to disrupt ourselves before somebody else disrupts us. And if you're not thinking that way you're going to get disrupted so better it be you than someone that you don't even see and usually it's not your side competitor, it's the one coming from a completely different direction that you weren't even paying attention to. >> That's right. And we see that over and over again and you made the right comment in that it's not always easy, some of these Fortune 500s through consolidation, even the Global 2000. They've done all these acquisitions and so you've got hundreds of BUs that don't have any systems tied together and how do you start to create a common connection in so that you can build your brand and you can try differentiation and that's the key, that's back to the intelligent data platform. >> Right and as you said and there's not single systems and now we got API economy, things are all connected so you don't necessarily even have that much direct control over a lot of these opportunities and you said that first I think it's just like okay where's your data? Can you start with the very simple question and a lot of people aren't really sure and can't even start from there. >> That's right. >> So good opportunities. >> Absolutely, there's no question. >> Alright Tracey, well thank you for stopping by, congratulations on your, on your new position and moving from Mahogany Row down into, down into the trenches. >> Down on the field. >> I'm sure they're going to be happy to have you down there on the field. >> Yeah no thanks Jeff I'm happy to be here and thanks for the time today. >> Thank you and we'll see you in Informatica world if not sooner. >> That's right. >> Alright she's Tracey Newell I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCube from Palo Alto, thanks for watching. (futuristic music)

>> Live from San José, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE! Covering DataWorks Summit 2018. Brought to you by Hortonworks. (electro music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of DataWorks here in sunny San José, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, James Kobielus. We're joined by John Kreisa. He is the VP of marketing here at Hortonworks. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you for having me. >> We've enjoyed watching you on the main stage, it's been a lot of fun. >> Thank you, it's been great. It's been great general sessions, some great talks. Talking about the technology, we've heard from some customers, some third parties, and most recently from Kevin Slavin from The Shed which is really amazing. >> So I really want to get into this event. You have 2,100 attendees from 23 different countries, 32 different industries. >> Yep. This started as a small, >> That's right. tiny little thing! >> Didn't Yahoo start it in 2008? >> It did, yeah. >> You changed names a few year ago, but it's still the same event, looming larger and larger. >> Yeah! >> It's been great, it's gone international as you've said. It's actually the 17th total event that we've done. >> Yeah. >> If you count the ones we've done in Europe and Asia. It's a global community around data, so it's no surprise. The growth has been phenomenal, the energy is great, the innovations that the community is talking about, the ecosystem is talking about, is really great. It just continues to evolve as an event, it continues to bring new ideas and share those ideas. >> What are you hearing from customers? What are they buzzing about? Every morning on the main stage, you do different polls that say, "how much are you using machine learning? What portion of your data are you moving to the cloud?" What are you learning? >> So it's interesting because we've done similar polls in our show in Berlin, and the results are very similar. We did the cloud poll pole and there's a lot of buzz around cloud. What we're hearing is there's a lot of companies that are thinking about, or are somewhere along their cloud journey. It's exactly what their overall plans are, and there's a lot of news about maybe cloud will eat everything, but if you look at the pole results, something like 75% of the attendees said they have cloud in their plans. Only about 12% said they're going to move everything to the cloud, so a lot of hybrid with cloud. It's how to figure out which work loads to run where, how to think about that strategy in terms of where to deploy the data, where to deploy the work loads and what that should look like and that's one of the main things that we're hearing and talking a lot about. >> We've been seeing that Wikiban and our recent update to the recent market forecast showed that public cloud will dominate increasingly in the coming decade, but hybrid cloud will be a long transition period for many or most enterprises who are still firmly rooted in on-premises employment, so forth and so on. Clearly, the bulk of your customers, both of your custom employments are on premise. >> They are. >> So you're working from a good starting point which means you've got what, 1,400 customers? >> That's right, thereabouts. >> Predominantly on premises, but many of them here at this show want to sustain their investment in a vendor that provides them with that flexibility as they decide they want to use Google or Microsoft or AWS or IBM for a particular workload that their existing investment to Hortonworks doesn't prevent them from facilitating. It moves that data and those workloads. >> That's right. The fact that we want to help them do that, a lot of our customers have, I'll call it a multi-cloud strategy. They want to be able to work with an Amazon or a Google or any of the other vendors in the space equally well and have the ability to move workloads around and that's one of the things that we can help them with. >> One of the things you also did yesterday on the main stage, was you talked about this conference in the greater context of the world and what's going on right now. This is happening against the backdrop of the World Cup, and you said that this is really emblematic of data because this is a game, a tournament that generates tons of data. >> A tremendous amount of data. >> It's showing how data can launch new business models, disrupt old ones. Where do you think we're at right now? For someone who's been in this industry for a long time, just lay the scene. >> I think we're still very much at the beginning. Even though the conference has been around for awhile, the technology has been. It's emerging so fast and just evolving so fast that we're still at the beginning of all the transformations. I've been listening to the customer presentations here and all of them are at some point along the journey. Many are really still starting. Even in some of the polls that we had today talked about the fact that they're very much at the beginning of their journey with things like streaming or some of the A.I. machine learning technologies. They're at various stages, so I believe we're really at the beginning of the transformation that we'll see. >> That reminds me of another detail of your product portfolio or your architecture streaming and edge deployments are also in the future for many of your customers who still primarily do analytics on data at rest. You made an investment in a number of technologies NiFi from streaming. There's something called MiNiFi that has been discussed here at this show as an enabler for streaming all the way out to edge devices. What I'm getting at is that's indicative of Arun Murthy, one of your co-founders, has made- it was a very good discussion for us analysts and also here at the show. That is one of many investments you're making is to prepare for a future that will set workloads that will be more predominant in the coming decade. One of the new things I've heard this week that I'd not heard in terms of emphasis from you guys is more of an emphasis on data warehousing as an important use case for HDP in your portfolios, specifically with HIVE. The HIVE 3.0 now in- HDP3.0. >> Yes. >> With the enhancements to HIVE to support more real time and low latency, but also there's ACID capabilities there. I'm hearing something- what you guys are doing is consistent with one of your competitors, Cloudera. They're going deeper into data warehousing too because they recognize they've got to got there like you do to be able to absorb more of your customers' workloads. I think that's important that you guys are making that investment. You're not just big data, you're all data and all data applications. Potentially, if your customers want to go there and engage you. >> Yes. >> I think that was a significant, subtle emphasis that me as an analyst noticed. >> Thank you. There were so many enhancements in 3.0 that were brought from the community that it was hard to talk about everything in depth, but you're right. The enhancements to HIVE in terms of performance have really enabled it to take on a greater set of workloads and inner activity that we know that our customers want. The advantage being that you have a common data layer in the back end and you can run all this different work. It might be data warehousing, high speed query workloads, but you can do it on that same data with Spark and data-science related workloads. Again, it's that common pool backend of the data lake and having that ability to do it with common security and governance. It's one of the benefits our customers are telling us they really appreciate. >> One of the things we've also heard this morning was talking about data analytics in terms of brand value and brand protection importantly. Fedex, exactly. Talking about, the speaker said, we've all seen these apology commercials. What do you think- is it damage control? What is the customer motivation here? >> Well a company can have billions of dollars of market cap wiped out by breeches in security, and we've seen it. This is not theoretical, these are actual occurrences that we've seen. Really, they're trying to protect the brand and the business and continue to be viable. They can get knocked back so far that it can take years to recover from the impact. They're looking at the security aspects of it, the governance of their data, the regulations of GVPR. These things you've mentioned have real financial impact on the businesses, and I think it's brand and the actual operations and finances of the businesses that can be impacted negatively. >> When you're thinking about Hortonworks's marketing messages going forward, how do you want to be described now, and then how do you want customers to think of you five or 10 years from now? >> I want them to think of us as a partner to help us with their data journey, on all aspects of their data journey, whether they're collecting data from the EDGE, you mentioned NiFi and things like that. Bringing that data back, processing it in motion, as well as processing it in rest, regardless of where that data lands. On premise, in the cloud, somewhere in between, the hybrid, multi-cloud strategy. We really want to be thought of as their partner in their data journey. That's really what we're doing. >> Even going forward, one of the things you were talking about earlier is the company's sort of saying, "we want to be boring. We want to help you do all the stuff-" >> There's a lot of money in boring. >> There's a lot of money, right! Exactly! As you said, a partner in their data journey. Is it "we'll do anything and everything"? Are you going to do niche stuff? >> That's a good question. Not everything. We are focused on the data layer. The movement of data, the process and storage, and truly the analytic applications that can be built on top of the platform. Right now we've stuck to our strategy. It's been very consistent since the beginning of the company in terms of taking these open source technologies, making them enterprise viable, developing an eco-system around it and fostering a community around it. That's been our strategy since before the company even started. We want to continue to do that and we will continue to do that. There's so much innovation happening in the community that we quickly bring that into the products and make sure that's available in a trusted, enterprise-tested platform. That's really one of the things we see our customers- over and over again they select us because we bring innovation to them quickly, in a safe and consumable way. >> Before we came on camera, I was telling Rebecca that Hortonworks has done a sensational job of continuing to align your product roadmaps with those of your leading partners. IBM, AWS, Microsoft. In many ways, your primary partners are not them, but the entire open source community. 26 open source projects in which Hortonworks represents and incorporated in your product portfolio in which you are a primary player and committer. You're a primary ingester of innovation from all the communities in which you operate. >> We do. >> That is your core business model. >> That's right. We both foster the innovation and we help drive the information ourselves with our engineers and architects. You're absolutely right, Jim. It's the ability to get that innovation, which is happening so fast in the community, into the product and companies need to innovate. Things are happening so fast. Moore's Law was mentioned multiple times on the main stage, you know, and how it's impacting different parts of the organization. It's not just the technology, but business models are evolving quickly. We heard a little bit about Trumble, and if you've seen Tim Leonard's talk that he gave around what they're doing in terms of logistics and the ability to go all the way out to the farmer and impact what's happening at the farm and tracking things down to the level of a tomato or an egg all the way back and just understand that. It's evolving business models. It's not just the tech but the evolution of business models. Rob talked about it yesterday. I think those are some of the things that are kind of key. >> Let me stay on that point really quick. Industrial internet like precision agriculture and everything it relates to, is increasingly relying on visual analysis, parts and eggs and whatever it might be. That is convolutional neural networks, that is A.I., it has to be trained, and it has to be trained increasingly in the cloud where the data lives. The data lives in H.D.P, clusters and whatnot. In many ways, no matter where the world goes in terms of industrial IoT, there will be massive cluster of HTFS and object storage driving it and also embedded A.I. models that have to follow a specific DevOps life cycle. You guys have a strong orientation in your portfolio towards that degree of real-time streaming, as it were, of tasks that go through the entire life cycle. From the preparing the data, to modeling, to training, to deploying it out, to Google or IBM or wherever else they want to go. So I'm thinking that you guys are in a good position for that as well. >> Yeah. >> I just wanted to ask you finally, what is the takeaway? We're talking about the attendees, talking about the community that you're cultivating here, theme, ideas, innovation, insight. What do you hope an attendee leaves with? >> I hope that the attendee leaves educated, understanding the technology and the impacts that it can have so that they will go back and change their business and continue to drive their data projects. The whole intent is really, and we even changed the format of the conference for more educational opportunities. For me, I want attendees to- a satisfied attendee would be one that learned about the things they came to learn so that they could go back to achieve the goals that they have when they get back. Whether it's business transformation, technology transformation, some combination of the two. To me, that's what I hope that everyone is taking away and that they want to come back next year when we're in Washington, D.C. and- >> My stomping ground. >> His hometown. >> Easy trip for you. They'll probably send you out here- (laughs) >> Yeah, that's right. >> Well John, it's always fun talking to you. Thank you so much. >> Thank you very much. >> We will have more from theCUBE's live coverage of DataWorks right after this. I'm Rebecca Knight for James Kobielus. (upbeat electro music)

>>Hi buddy, we're back. This is Dave Volante with the cube goes out to the shows. We extract the signal from the noise. Nate Silver's here. Nate, we've been saying that since 2010, rip you off. Hey Marcus feeder. Oh, you have that trademarks. Okay. So anyway, welcome to the cube. You man who needs no introduction, but in case you don't know Nate, uh, he's a very famous author, five 30 eight.com. Statistician influence, influential individual predictor of a lot of things including presidential elections. And uh, great to have you here. Great to be here. So we listened to your keynote this morning. We asked earlier if some of our audience, can you tweet it and you know, what would you ask Nate silver? So of course we got the predictable, how the red Sox going to do this year? Who's going to be in the world series? Are we going to attack Syria? >>Uh, will the fed E's or tightened? Of course we're down here. Who'd you vote for? Or they, you know, they all want to know. And of course, a lot of these questions you can't answer because it's too far out. But, uh, but anyway, again, welcome, welcome to the cube. Um, so I want to start by, uh, picking up on some of the themes in your keynote. Uh, you're here at the Tableau conference. Obviously it's all about about data. Uh, and you, your basic, one of your basic premises was that, um, people will misinterpret data, they'll just use data for their own own biases. You have been a controversial figure, right? A lot of people have accused you of, of bias. Um, how, what do you F how do you feel about that as a person who's, uh, you know, statistician, somebody who loves data? >>I think everyone has bias in the sense that we all have one relatively narrow perspective as compared to a big set of problems that we all are trying to analyze or solve or understand together. Um, you know, but I do think some of this actually comes down to, uh, not just bias, but kind of personal morality and ethics really. It seems weird to talk about it that way, but there are a lot of people involved in the political world who are operating to manipulate public opinion, um, and that don't really place a lot of value on the truth. Right. And I consider that kind of immoral. Um, but people like that I think don't really understand that someone else might act morally by actually just trying to discover the way the objective world is and trying to use science and research to, to uncover things. >>And so I think it's hard people to, because if they were in your shoes, they would try and manipulate the forecast and they would cheat and put their finger on their scale. They assume that anyone else would do the same thing cause they, they don't own any. Yeah. So will you, you've made some incredibly accurate predictions, uh, in the face of, of, of others that clearly had bias that, that, that, you know mispredicted um, so how did you feel when you got those, those attacks? Were you flabbergasted? Were you pissed? Were you hurt? I mean, all of the above having you move houses for, for you? I mean you get used to them with a lot of bullshit, right? You're not too surprised. Um, I guess it surprised me how, but how much the people who you know are pretty intelligent are willing to, to fool themselves and how specious arguments where meet and by the way, people are always constructing arguments for, for outcomes they happen to be rooting for. >>Right? It'd be one thing if you said, well I'm a Republican, but boy I think Obama's going to crush Romney electoral college or vice versa. But you should have an extra layer of scrutiny when you have a view that diverges from the consensus or what kind of the markets are saying. And by the way, you can go and they're betting Margaret's, you can go and you could have bet on the outcome of election bookies in the UK, other countries. Right. And they kind of had forecast similar to ours. We were actually putting their money where their mouth was. Agree that Obama was a. Not a lot, but a pretty heavy favorite route. Most of the last two months in the election. I wanted to ask you about prediction markets cause as you probably know, I mean the betting public are actually very efficient. Handicappers right over. >>So I'll throw a two to one shot is going to be to three to one is going to be a four to one, you know, more often than not. But what are your thoughts on, on prediction markets? I mean you just sort of betting markets, you'd just alluded it to them just recently or is that a, is that a good, well there a lot there then then I think the punditry right. I mean, you know, so with, with prediction markets you have a couple of issues. Number one is do you have enough, uh, liquidity, um, and my volume in the markets for them to be, uh, uh, optimal. Right. And I think the answer right now is maybe not exactly. And like these in trade type markets, knowing trade has been, has been shut down. In fact, it was pretty light trading volumes. It might've had people who stood to gain or lose, um, you know, thousands of dollars. >>Whereas in quote, unquote real markets, uh, the stakes are, are several orders of magnitude higher. If you look at what happened to, for example, just prices of common stocks a day after the election last year, um, oil and gas stocks lost billions of dollars of market capitalization after Romney lost. Uh, conversely, some, you know, green tech stocks or certain types of healthcare socks at benefit from Obamacare going into play gain hundreds of millions, billions of dollars in market capitalization. So real investors have to price in these political risks. Um, anyway, I would love to have see fully legal, uh, trading markets in the U S people can get bet kind of proper sums of money where you have, um, a lot of real capital going in and people can kind of hedge their economic risk a little bit more. But you know, they're, they're bigger and it's very hard to beat markets. They're not flawless. And there's a whole chapter in the book about how, you know, the minute you assume that markets are, are clairvoyant and perfect, then that's when they start to fail. >>Ironically enough. But they're very good. They're very tough to beat and they certainly provide a reality check in terms of providing people with, with real incentives to actually, you know, make a bet on, on their beliefs and people when they have financial incentives, uh, uh, to be accurate then a lot of bullshit. There's a tax on bullshit is one way. That's okay. I've got to ask him for anyway that you're still a baseball fan, right? Is that an in Detroit fan? Right. I'm a tiger. There's my bias. You remember the bird? It's too young to remember a little too. I, so I grew up, I was born in 78, so 84, the Kirk Gibson, Alan Trammell teams are kind of my, my earliest. So you definitely don't remember Mickey Lola cha. I used to be a big guy. That's right fan as well. But so, but Sony, right when Moneyball came out, we just were at the Vertica conference. >>We saw Billy being there and, and uh, when, when, when, when, when that book came out, I said Billy Bean's out of his mind for releasing all these secrets. And you alluded to in your talk today that other teams like the rays and like the red Sox have sort of started to adopt those techniques. At the same time, I feel like culturally when another one of your V and your Venn diagram, I don't want you vectors, uh, that, that Oakland's done a better job of that, that others may S they still culturally so pushing back, even the red Sox themselves, it can be argued, you know, went out and sort of violated the, the principles were of course Oakland A's can't cause they don't have a, have a, have a budget to do. So what's your take on Moneyball? Is the, is the strategy that he put forth sustainable or is it all going to be sort of level playing field eventually? >>I mean, you know, the strategy in terms of Oh fine guys that take a lot of walks, right? Um, I mean everyone realizes that now it's a fairly basic conclusion and it was kind of the sign of, of how far behind how many biases there were in the market for that, you know, use LBP instead of day. And I actually like, but that, that was arbitrage, you know, five or 10 years ago now, um, put butts in the seat, right? Man, if they win, I guess it does, but even the red Sox are winning and nobody goes to the games anymore. The red Sox, tons of empty seats, even for Yankees games. Well, it's, I mean they're also charging 200 bucks a ticket or something. you can get a ticket for 20, 30 bucks. But, but you know, but I, you know, I, I, I mean, first of all, the most emotional connection to baseball is that if your team is in pennant races, wins world series, right then that produces multimillion dollar increases in ticket sales and, and TV contracts down the road. >>So, um, in fact, you know, I think one thing is, is looking at the financial side, like modeling the martial impact of a win, but also kind of modeling. If you do kind of sign a free agent, then, uh, that signaling effect, how much does that matter for season ticket sales? So you could do some more kind of high finance stuff in baseball. But, but some of the low hanging fruit, I mean, you know, almost every team now has a Cisco analyst on their payroll or increasingly the distinctions aren't even as relevant anymore. Right? Where someone who's first in analytics is also listening to what the Scouts say. And you have organizations that you know, aren't making these kind of distinctions between stat heads and Scouts at all. They all kind of get along and it's all, you know, finding better ways, more responsible ways to, to analyze data. >>And basically you have the advantage of a very clear way of measure, measure success where, you know, do you win? That's the bottom line. Or do you make money or, or both. You can isolate guys Marshall contribution. I mean, you know, I am in the process now of hiring a bunch of uh, writers and editors and developers for five 38 right? So someone has a column and they do really well. How much of that is on the, the writer versus the ed or versus the brand of the site versus the guy at ESPN who promoted it or whatever else. Right. That's hard to say. But in baseball, everyone kind of takes their turn. It's very easy to measure each player's kind of marginal contribution to sort of balance and equilibrium and, and, and it's potentially achieved. But, and again, from your talk this morning modeling or volume of data doesn't Trump modeling, right? >>You need both. And you need culture. You need, you need, you know, you need volume of data, you need high quality data. You need, uh, a culture that actually has the right incentives align where you really do want to find a way to build a better product to make more money. Right? And again, they'll seem like, Oh, you know, how difficult should it be for a company to want to make more money and build better products. But, um, when you have large organizations, you have a lot of people who are, uh, who are thinking very short term or only about only about their P and L and not how the whole company as a whole is doing or have, you know, hangups or personality conflicts or, or whatever else. So, you know, a lot of success I think in business. Um, and certainly when it comes to use of analytics, it's just stripping away the things that, that get in the way from understanding and distract you. >>It's not some wave a magic wand and have some formula where you uncover all the secrets in the world. It's more like if you can strip away the noise there and you're going to have a much clearer understanding of, of what's really there. Uh, Nate, again, thanks so much for joining us. So kind of wanna expand on that a little bit. So when people think of Nate silver, sometimes they, you know, they think Nate silver analytics big data, but you're actually a S some of your positions are kind of, you take issue with some of the core notions of big data really around the, the, the importance of causality versus correlation. So, um, so we had Kenneth kookier on from, uh, the economist who wrote a book about big data a while back, the strata conference. And you know, he, in that book, they talk a lot about it really doesn't matter how valid anymore, if you know that your customers are gonna buy more products based on this dataset or this correlation that it doesn't really matter why. >>You just try to try to try to exploit that. Uh, but in your book you talk about, well and in the keynote today you talked about, well actually hypothesis testing coming in with some questions and actually looking for that causality is also important. Um, so, so what is your, what is your opinion of kind of, you know, all this hype around big data? Um, you know, you mentioned volume is important, but it's not the only thing. I mean, like, I mean, I'll tell you I'm, I'm kind of an empiricist about anything, right? So, you know, if it's true that merely finding a lot of correlations and kind of very high volume data sets will improve productivity. And how come we've had, you know, kind of such slow economic growth over the past 10 years, where is the tangible increase in patent growth or, or different measures of progress. >>And obviously there's a lot of noise in that data set as well. But you know, partly why both in the presentation today and in the book I kind of opened up with the, with the history is saying, you know, let's really look at the history of technology. It's a kind of fascinating, an understudied feel, the link between technology and progress and growth. But, um, it doesn't always go as planned. And I certainly don't think we've seen any kind of paradigm shift as far as, you know, technological, economic productivity in the world today. I mean, the thing to remember too is that, uh, uh, technology is always growing in and developing and that if you have roughly 3% economic growth per year exponential, that's a lot of growth, right? It's not even a straight line growth. It's like exponential growth. And to have 3% exponential growth compounding over how many years is a lot. >>So you're always going to have new technologies developing. Um, but what I, I'm suspicious that as people will say this one technology is, is a game changer relative to the whole history of civilization up until now. Um, and also, you know, again, a lot of technologies you look at kind of economic models where you have different factors or productivity. It's not usually an additive relationship. It's more a multiplicative relationships. So if you have a lot of data, but people who aren't very good at analyzing it, you have a lot of data but it's unstructured and unscrutinised you know, you're not going to get particularly good results by and large. Um, so I just want to talk a little bit about the, the kind of the, the cultural issue of adopting kind of analytics and, and becoming a data driven organization. And you talk a lot about, um, you know, really what you do is, is setting, um, you know, try to predict the probabilities of something happening, not really predicting what's going to happen necessarily. >>And you talked to New York, you know, today about, you know, knowledging where, you know, you're not, you're not 100% sure acknowledging that this is, you know, this is our best estimate based on the data. Um, but of course in business, you know, a lot of people, a lot of, um, importance is put on kind of, you know, putting on that front that you're, you know, what you're talking about. It's, you know, you be confident, you go in, this is gonna happen. And, and sometimes that can actually move markets and move decision-making. Um, how do you balance that in a, in a business environment where, you know, you want to keep, be realistic, but you want to, you know, put forth a confident, uh, persona. Well, you know, I mean, first of all, everyone, I think the answer is that you have to, uh, uh, kind of take a long time to build the narrative correctly and kind of get back to the first principles. >>And so at five 38, it's kind of a case where you have a dialogue with the readers of the site every day, right? But it's not that you can solve in one conversation. If you come in to a boss who you never talked to you before, you have to present some PowerPoint and you're like, actually this initiative has a, you know, 57% chance of succeeding and the baseline is 50% and it's really good cause the upside's high, right? Like you know, that's going to be tricky if you don't have a good and open dialogue. And it's another barrier by the way to success is that uh, you know, none of this big data stuff is going to be a solution for companies that have poor corporate cultures where you have trouble communicating ideas where you don't everyone on the same page. Um, you know, you need buy in from, from all throughout the organization, which means both you need senior level people who, uh, who understand the value of analytics. >>You also need analysts or junior level people who understand what business problems the company is trying to solve, what organizational goals are. Um, so I mean, how do you communicate? It's tricky, you know, maybe if you can't communicate it, then you find another firm or go, uh, go trade stocks and, and uh, and short that company if you're not violating like insider trading rules of, of various kinds. Um, you know, I mean, the one thing that seems to work better is if you can, uh, depict things visually. People intuitively grasp uncertainty. If you kind of portray it to them in a graphic environment, especially with interactive graphics, uh, more than they might've just kind of put numbers on a page. You know, one thing we're thinking about doing with the new 580 ESPN, we're hiring a lot of designers and developers is in case where there is uncertainty, then you can press a button, kind of like a slot, Michigan and simulate and outcome many times, then it'll make sense to people. Right? And they do that already for, you know, NCAA tournament stuff or NFL playoffs. Um, but that can help. >>So Nate, I asked you my, my partner John furry, who's often or normally the cohost of this show, uh, just just tweeted me asking about crowd spotting. So he's got this notion that there's all this exhaust out there, the social exhaustive social data. How do you, or do you, or do you see the potential to use that exhaust that's thrown off from the connected consumer to actually make predictions? Um, so I'm >>a, I guess probably mildly pessimistic about this for the reason being that, uh, a lot of this data is very new and so we don't really have a way to kind of calibrate a model based on it. So you can look and say, well, you know, let's say Twitter during the Republican primaries in 2016 that, Oh, Paul Ryan is getting five times as much favorable Twitter sentiment as Rick Santorum or whatever among Republicans. But, but what's that mean? You know, to put something into a model, you have to have enough history generally, um, where you can translate X into Y by means of some function or some formula. And a lot of data is so new where you don't have enough history to do that. And the other thing too is that, um, um, the demographics of who is using social media is changing a lot. Where we are right now you come to conference like this and everyone has you know, all their different accounts but, but we're not quite there yet in terms of the broader population. >>Um, you have a lot of kind of thought leaders now a lot of, you know, kind of young, smart urban tech geeks and they're not necessarily as representative of the population as a whole. That will over time the data will become more valuable. But if you're kind of calibrating expectations based on the way that at Twitter or Facebook were used in 2013 to expect that to be reliable when you want a high degree of precision three years from now, even six months from now is, is I think a little optimistic. Some sentiment though, we would agree with that. I mean sentiment is this concept of how many people are talking about a thumbs up, thumbs down. But to the extent that you can get metadata and make it more stable, longer term, you would see potential there is, I mean, there are environments where the terrain is shifting so fast that by the time you know, the forecast that you'd be interested in, right? >>Like things have already changed enough where like it's hard to do, to make good forecast. Right? And I think one of the kind of fundamental themes here, one of my critiques is some of the, uh, of, uh, the more optimistic interpretations of big data is that fundamentally people are, are, most people want a shortcut, right? Most people are, are fairly lazy like labor. What's the hot stock? Yeah. Right. Um, and so I'm worried whenever people talk about, you know, biased interpretations of, of the data or information, right? Whenever people say, Oh, this is going to solve my problems, I don't have to work very hard. You know, not usually true. Even if you look at sports, even steroids, performance enhancing drugs, the guys who really get the benefits of the steroids, they have to work their butts off, right? And then you have a synergy which hell. >>So they are very free free meal tickets in life when they are going to be gobbled up in competitive environments. So you know, uh, bigger datasets, faster data sets are going to be very powerful for people who have the right expertise and the right partners. But, but it's not going to make, uh, you know anyone to be able to kind of quit their job and go on the beach and sip my ties. So ne what are you working on these days as it relates to data? What's exciting you? Um, so with the, with the move to ESPN, I'm thinking more about, uh, you know, working with them on sports type projects, which is something having mostly cover politics. The past four or five years I've, I've kind of a lot of pent up ideas. So you know, looking at things in basketball for example, you have a team of five players and solving the problem of, of who takes the shot, when is the guy taking a good shot? >>Cause the shot clock's running out. When does a guy stealing a better opportunity from, from one of his teammates. Question. We want to look at, um, you know, we have the world cup the summer, so soccer is an interest of mine and we worked in 2010 with ESPN on something called the soccer power index. So continuing to improve that and roll that out. Um, you know, obviously baseball is very analytics rich as well, but you know, my near term focus might be on some of these sports projects. Yeah. So that the, I have to ask you a followup on the, on the soccer question. Is that an individual level? Is that a team level of both? So what we do is kind of uh, uh, one problem you have with the national teams, the Italian national team or Brazilian or the U S team is that they shift their personnel a lot. >>So they'll use certain guys for unimportant friendly matches for training matches that weren't actually playing in Brazil next year. So the system soccer power next we developed for ESPN actually it looks at the rosters and tries to make inferences about who is the a team so to speak and how much quality improvement do you have with them versus versus, uh, guys that are playing only in the marginal and important games. Okay. So you're able to mix and match teams and sort of predict on your flow state also from club league play to make inferences about how the national teams will come together. Um, but soccer is a case where, where we're going into here where we had a lot more data than we used to. Basically you had goals and bookings, I mean, and yellow cards and red cards and now you've collected a lot more data on how guys are moving throughout the field and how many passes there are, how much territory they're covering, uh, tackles and everything else. So that's becoming a lot smarter. Excellent. All right, Nate, I know you've got to go. I really appreciate the time. Thanks for coming on. The cube was a pleasure to meet you. Great. Thank you guys. All right. Keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. Dave Volante and Jeff Kelly. We're live at the Tableau user conference. This is the cube.