>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's "theCUBE." Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. (upbeat music) >> Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of "theCUBE Insights," powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis," I want to look into Cisco. You know theCUBE is in Barcelona this week to cover Cisco Live. There's an expected attendance of about 17,000 people. Now today, Cisco is a company in transition. It remains a leader in key segments, but it's refocusing its business for the next decade, having exited a number of areas over the last several years. Allow me to briefly give you my perspective and review how we got here. Near the end of the dot-com bubble, Cisco was the most valuable company in the world, with a $500 billion market cap. It was one of the four horsemen of the internet, remember that? Along with Oracle, Sun, and EMC. Cisco really rose to prominence by betting big on ethernet. Old reliable TCP/IP was the linchpin of the internet, and allowed Cisco to power the wave that virtually decimated the mini-computer industry in the 1990s. There were many levers that Cisco pulled, brilliantly, during its ascendancy, and I want to call out two big ones. First was it created an army of network engineers. Literally hundreds of thousands of professionals trained on installing, configuring, managing, and optimizing Cisco gear. Cisco created very complex solutions and thrived on this complexity, and the Cisco Certified Inter-network Experts, or CCIEs, deeply understood the dark art of networking, and Cisco was their beacon. The second was acquisitions. Under the leadership of CEO John Chambers, Cisco completed about 180 acquisitions over a roughly 20-year period. This enabled TAM expansion, growth, and maintained Cisco's relevance to customers, who very typically and often were the generator of acquisition ideas. Cisco diversified quickly into a conglomerate with a portfolio that spanned video, set-top boxes, telepresence, compute, collaboration, security, wireless. At one point, Chambers talked about dozens of adjacent businesses, each of which would account for a billion dollars of incremental revenue for Cisco. Many, if not most, didn't pan out, and Chambers slashed and burned prior to handing the reins over to current CEO, Chuck Robbins. Now, under Robbins, Cisco was a more focused company, kind of going back to the basics. They're betting on what I would say are more sure bets, including data center, wireless, collaboration, security, and the Edge. Cisco is also evolving its model towards software subscriptions. Now today, I want to look at how some of those bets are performing. I'll discuss the impact of cloud on Cisco's business, and then I want to drill in to the performance in some areas like networking, collaboration, security, and then close on hyper-converged. And then the last thing I'm going to do is share some things that I'm watching as barometers of success, over the next 18 to 24 months. Now the first thing I want to do is give you a snapshot of Cisco's financials today. What this chart shows is some KPIs on a trailing 12-month basis. Cisco is about a $50 billion company with a $200 billion market value. That's a 4X revenue multiple, which is pretty good for a company that's generally viewed as a traditional hardware player. Now Cisco is guiding analysts on a flat to down year, and talking about a challenging macro environment, despite the stock market's seemingly insurmountable rise. Cisco is a very profitable company, with a 33% operating margin, and very nice, 66%, roughly, gross margin. Cisco throws off a lot of cash, around $15 billion annually in free cashflow. They make a big deal that 70% of its software revenue is now coming from subscriptions. And Cisco is mandating a new consumption model that is subscription-based. Now it's somewhat hard to tell exactly how large Cisco's software revenue is, as they're opaque in that detail, but I'm pegging it at between 11 and 12 billion by the end of this year. Today it's probably seven to eight billion. Cisco is riding some big waves, adding software to its portfolio, security grew at 22% last quarter, Wi-Fi 6, 5G, which by 2021 should start kicking in, it uses a chunk of its cash of course to buy back stock to keep the street happy, and it's leveraging a leadership position to compete. Now finally, I want to make some comments, later actually, on how they're approaching developers in a strategy that I really like. Now there are some headwinds that Cisco's facing, namely cloud, this macro picture that they talk about, which is not positive for them evidently, the company's overall complex portfolio, the competitive dynamics, and the perception that they have an aging, or that they are an aging hardware company, and they're really still touting, selling ports. So, let's drill into some of the spending data, and I want to start with this notion of leadership. This chart shows Cisco's position in its core networking segment. The chart depicts market share over time, which remember is a measure of pervasiveness into each ETR dataset. Now look at what happens. Look how Cisco maintains its leadership, far outpacing the others in this networking sector each quarter. I'm going to make some comments on the sector overall, but notice the net score in the blue bars, which is a measure of spending velocity. It holds firm at 25%. Not great, but holding steady. And you can see the pie chart of the public cloud's impact on the sector, and I'm going to make some comments there later as we go on. But first let's look at the networking sector overall. ETR just released its January survey, and here's what they said in their sentiment on networking. So, when you see the networking space, it's been sort of down for a while, and ETR has been somewhat negative on the entire space, but what this shows is really net score, which is spending velocity, and the January 2020 results, with previous periods within Fortune 500 buyers. And you can see there's an uptick in momentum for networking generally, and Cisco is really cited as rebounding. But now look at the blue call-out. It's from an ETR VENN discussion, with an IT buyer, who essentially says, "Look, as we move to the cloud, "we are going to spend less on networking gear." And given that Cisco is the leader, we want to understand how the public cloud is affecting Cisco's networking business. So to answer that, what I'm showing here is data from the latest ETR January spending survey. And I'm filtering the data on organizations that are spending on AWS, Azure, and Google Cloud platform, and showing Cisco's performance measured in market share, or pervasiveness. You see, that's what's happening now in these big cloud accounts. There's an N of 809 cloud customers, and 480 Cisco customers within those accounts. And you can see the impact that the cloud is having on Cisco, much the same way it is affecting virtually every large supplier of on prime infrastructure. A slow, steady decline over the past 10 years. And you can see a net score, which measures spending intensity, in the upper right-hand corner, of almost 30%, which is somewhat lower than Cisco's average in the ETR dataset. But the story's not just about cloud. There are other waves in the industry, of what I've referred to in the past as innovation cocktail ingredients, namely data, plus AI, plus cloud. So the next question I want to pose is, how is Cisco doing in leveraging these waves? So here we have 916 customers in these superpower segments of data, AI, and cloud, that are combined, and we show the market share, or pervasiveness, over time, of Cisco, as compared to VMware's NSX, HPE, and Dell EMC. What the data shows is a couple of points. One is that Cisco is the most pervasive competitor shown in these customer segments. Its net score is 37%, four points higher, meaningfully, than the cloud-only chart. Actually seven points higher than I showed earlier. Only NSX has a higher net score, and relatively speaking, NSX is much newer, and should be growing much faster than Cisco, so that makes sense. So I would say that Cisco is holding its own here. Its challenge really, in my view, is to use data and AI to create better customer experiences. So, be a consumer of AI, if you will, as a means of better serving customers, and compete in the multi-cloud market directly with these players and others, none of whom own a public cloud. Okay, so I spoke earlier about Cisco's portfolio, so let's look at some of the ETR data, and see how various parts of Cisco's business are doing. This chart shows the net score, or remember, spending velocity, across Cisco's offerings, and includes Meraki, which is wireless, AppDynamics, AppD, is application performance management, we're showing here Cisco overall, Cisco Umbrella, which is cloud and DNS security, and Springpath, which comprises infrastructure for Cisco's hyper-converged offering. And as you can see, the segments in which Cisco plays, there are 10 in the ETR taxonomy, spanning analytics, security, mobile, device management, infrastructure, video conferencing, et cetera, et cetera. In the interest of time, I will say just the following. Red is bad, green is good, and gray is neutral. And again, Cisco is holding its own in these major segments, with decent spending velocity. So now, let's take a look in an area that I think is going to get a lot of attention in Cisco Live, and that's collaboration. This ETR chart that I ran shows net score, or spending velocity, for video conferencing platforms. And you can see, Cisco, they got some work to do. It's sort of teetering on the red zone. So I would expect some continued enhancements there. Now comparatively, you can see GotoMeeting losing steam, and Skype really falling off a cliff in January, but look at Microsoft Teams, that blue dot, with very very strong momentum. So what Microsoft's doing is they're migrating Skype and Lync, their install base, to Teams, and they're really really well-positioned there. And you can see as well, newcomer Zoom is right there in the mix, across this sample of 500 buyers. Now, I want to turn your attention to a really important sector, which of course is security. This chart that I'm showing here shows net score, again, spending velocity, in the cyber security sector. And Cisco is both large and credible in this space. Its security business grew 22% last quarter, as I said, and it's at a $3.2 billion run rate. So, spending momentum, maybe not as strong as Palo Alto Networks, which I'm showing here, and it's not as high as the rocket ship companies, like CrowdStrike, or Okta, or CyberArk, or SailPoint, or some of the others that I've highlighted in previous "Breaking Analysis" episodes, but Cisco's pretty solid. And you can see the likes of IBM and Symantec, by comparison, these guys are leaders in security, but their spending momentum is in the red. So once again, the steam of Cisco as a large player who has credibility, this story is playing out. And clearly this is going to be an area of focus at Cisco Live. So this next data point is kind of interesting, and looks at Cisco's data center business, and specifically, I'm trying to better understand what's going on in hyper-converged, the software-defined platforms that bring together storage, compute, and networking. Now the power of the ETR platform is that I can ask the question, how are the hyper-converged players doing inside of Cisco accounts? So what I've done is I've filtered on 458 Cisco accounts across three sectors, storage, compute, and networking, and I've isolated on Nutanix, VMware, or VMware's vSAN, Cisco itself, and Dell EMC with VxRail. And what we're doing is we're showing net score, or spending intensity, spending velocity. And the first thing to point out is that all of the vendors are in the green, and that's because this is a growing market that still has legs. Nutanix has noticeable spending momentum, ahead of vSAN, ahead of Cisco, and Dell EMC. Now here's the thing about Cisco. On the one hand, it's putting forth its own HyperFlex platform, based on the Springpath acquisition. But it has to tread carefully because it partners with converge players, like NetApp with FlexPod and IBM with VersaStack. And its HyperFlex, as an HCI play, is essentially designed to replace converge platforms like these. Now the same is true for VBlock, the business with Dell EMC, the old VCE business, but Cisco and Dell are at each other's throats, so, neither really cares that it's replacing them. Okay, long segment, a lot to cover, I got to wrap, but I want to end by saying what to look for over the next sort of 18 to 24 months as barometers. First thing is the pace of transition to software. The second thing that I'm watching is the uptake of the new core announcement that Cisco just made for big routers, silicon, and optics. This is Cisco's wheelhouse, and I expect that the 5G rollout in 2021 is really going to start to pick up and be a tailwind for Cisco. You know the macro should be a concern. Cisco is saying its business is soft, kind of across the board, there's China, there's Brexit, but the S and P is on fire. Now does that mean upside for Cisco? In other words, are they sandbagging a little bit? Or, are there more fundamental, structural, or execution issues? I think personally, Cisco may have a little bit of upside here, but they're big and exposed, so that's something to watch. The other thing is the impact of cloud on Cisco's business, and the company's ability to compete in multi-cloud, including how it embraces Kubernetes. Cisco, and I've said this before, has to position itself as the best, the most cost-effective, the most secure, and highest performance network to connect hybrid and multi-clouds. Now as well, the company's got to hold serve in networking, which I fully expect it to do. We're seeing a little uptick in Juniper, Arista's doing okay, but they're sort of smaller in the grand scheme of things relative to Cisco. Now the wild card here is VMware's NSX. So we'll be watching that and what impact it has. A lot of customers have both. Finally, I want to talk about developers. Cisco DevNet, as I've said many times, I really like what Cisco is doing there. I think they've outshone some of the traditional players. They are retraining hundred of thousands of CCIEs to code in Python, and really, code Cisco infrastructure. So Cisco has an infrastructure-as-code strategy that's going to help propel them in multi-cloud, the Edge, new Workloads, and they're leveraging this engineering force that they have. So, very long segment here. Watch the coverage at Cisco Live on theCUBE and on SiliconANGLE. It's a big chewy company, and a lot for me to swallow in one of these segments. So tweet me @DVellante if I've missed something, or comment on my LinkedIn feed, or you can email me at David.Vellante@SiliconANGLE.com. Thanks for watching, everybody. We'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis, "theCUBE Insights," powered by ETR. (upbeat music)

from the silicon angle media office in Boston Massachusetts it's the queue now here's your host David on tape hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of the cube insights powered by ETR this week cisco CEO Chuck Robbins has invited a number of analysts and press to San Francisco for an event to talk about the future of Cisco and no doubt the role of the company in the next decade and I will be there so in this breaking analysis I thought that I'd focus on Cisco and its prospects in this era of next-generation cloud of course last week we attended AWS reinvent and you can catch all our coverage on the cube net but the key takeaways are that we're entering a new era of cloud that is heavily emphasized emphasizing getting more value out of data with machine intelligence and things like sage maker now AWS was heavily focused on this notion of transformation putting forth the strong case that enterprises have to transform not just incrementally it was a clear message that CEOs really have to lead and AWS are striking directly at the heart of what a device had Andy Jesse calls the old guard namely IBM Dell Oracle HPE and many others including of course Cisco saying that you can't just transform incremental e CEOs you have to transform whole house so today I want to look at six areas and I'm showing them here on this on this slide but the first thing I want to do is just review the overall spending climate and then what I want to do is discuss Cisco in the context of industry leadership playing on Jesse's themes and then you know we'll look at the spending momentum in the latest ETR survey for those leaders next thing I want to do is I'm going to talk about the cloud and it's impacting everyone and I want to take a look specifically at how it's impacting Cisco and how Cisco is faring in the face of competent from the public cloud which we've talked about a lot across a number of vendors we're then going to look at Cisco's business overall from a spending perspective and then I'll wrap with some some comments on what I see is opportunities for Cisco like edge I want to talk specifically about multi cloud and of course cloud in general so let's start drilling into the spending climate overall now remember the EGR data tells us that spending on balance is reverting to pre 2018 levels but it's not falling off the cliff buyers member are narrowing their experimentation on new technologies and they're placing more focused bets as part of the digital transformations we're also seeing more replacements of redundant systems that buyers were running in parallel as a hedge on their bets and that is affecting overall spending and it's somewhat compressing spending so with that as a backdrop let's look at some of the the latest data from ETR and focus on the leaders from the latest survey so what I'm showing here is data from ETRS October 2019 Syria one thousand three hundred and thirty six IT buyers who responded and I've selected market share as the metric across all sectors as you can see here in number eight now remember market share is a measure of pervasiveness and it's calculated by dividing the total vendor Mensch mentions divided by the sector total so now the remember the ETR methodology allows for multiple responses by a vendor so you can see in the y-axis there can be more than a hundred percent okay because of those multiple responders respondents now note that Microsoft Cisco Oracle AWS and IBM have the highest shared ends or mentions and you can see the pervasiveness of Microsoft and its prominence which is not surprising but Cisco Oracle and IBM generally have held from again pervasiveness standpoint pretty well as you can see the steady rise as well in AWS is market share so cisco really the bottom line there is cisco is a clear leader in this industry and it's maintaining its leadership position and you can of course on that chart you can see the others who really didn't make the top five but they're prominently you know mentioned with the shared ends that's VMware Salesforce Adobe's up there and of course Dell EMC is the you know 90 to 100 billion dollar company now let's take a look specifically at spending momentum you know what we're showing here in this chart is the exact same cut except we've changed the metric from market share to net score now remember net score is a measure of spending momentum that's calculated by essentially subtracting the percent of customers that are spending less in a given survey from those that are spending more and that's the net score and you can see the picture changes pretty dramatically AWS jumps up to the top spot with a 62% you know net score over taking Microsoft but then look at Cisco it's very strong with the 36 about 34 percent net score you know not nearly as high as AWS and Microsoft but very respectable and holding you know fairly strongly and notably ahead of IBM and Oracle which are both in the red you see that red area which signals caution now what I want to do is address the question of how is the cloud affecting Cisco's business you've seen me do this with a number of other vendors let's drill into what it means for Cisco so if you've been following these breaking analysis segments you know we've been reporting that the the pace at which the cloud is eating away at a traditional on-prem data data data center business continues now here's a quote from an IT Pro that summarizes the situation for networking in general and then we'll come back and specifically talk about Cisco he says or she says as we migrate the data centers to AWS networking costs will decline over three years this is a director of tech strategy for a large telco so the question I have is does the et et our data back this up let's take a look so what this chart shows is a cut of cloud spenders there are 818 in the latest ETR survey and the net score within those accounts specifically for Cisco so it's spenders on AWS asier and Google cloud and you can see the steady decline post 2010 for Cisco so just as I've reported for Dell EMC HPE Oracle and others you can see that the clouds steady march continues to challenge the on-prem suppliers so each of these companies has really got to figure out how to respond now in the case of Cisco it's moving from owning the network market to really participating in the public cloud and interconnecting clouds so we've seen Cisco make many acquisitions that can allow them to work with AWS for example app D which is application performance management VIP teller which is SD win clicker which is orchestration duo in cloud security and then you've seen bets on kubernetes which are going to help them span hybrid you know as well you've seen them make partnerships with the leading cloud some suppliers and I'll make some comments later on when I talk about multi cloud so let's look at how these diversification moves have impacted Cisco overall because they've not sat still you can see that in this chart what it shows is Cisco's market share across all of its businesses including analytics security telephony and of course core networking but also servers storage video conferencing and virtualization so the point is that by diversifying its business the company has expanded its Tam its total available market and as I showed you before has maintained a leadership position in the data center is measured by market share now here's a deeper sector analysis of Cisco's business by various sectors and what we're showing here is Cisco's business across a number of sectors comparing the October 18 survey with July 19 and the October 19 surveys so this is net score view and you can see across all customers that Cisco's second-half net score for these sectors which are in the green are showing strong momentum relative to a year ago so here you go Meraki which includes Cisco's wireless business its telephony business parts of its security business core Cisco Networking they're all showing strength now parts of its security portfolio like Open DNS and Sourcefire which is intrusion detection which Cisco bought about six years ago and some at Cisco's voice and video assets are showing slower momentum but Cisco's overall spending momentum is holding on pretty well all right let me talk a moment about some of Cisco's opportunities they're trying to transform into more of a software company with assets like duo app dynamics and they want to focus less on selling boxes and ports and more on licenses and subscriptions so it's also got its got to use software also to unify its many platforms so I want to talk about for a moment about multi cloud hot new area right everybody's talking about it cisco recently made some organizational moves to take its separate cloud group and better align it with Cisco's core operations in a new group that they call cloud strategy and compute now cisco competes in multi cloud with vmware IBM curves Red Hat Microsoft and Google even though they partner with Microsoft and Google so here's some ETR data that looks at key Cloud sectors including the three did I pulled out cloud computing container orchestration and container platforms so these are buyers spending on these three areas so there's 937 in the latest survey you can't see that and because I'm hiding it with the pulldown but trust me but you can see the big players with spending momentum and while cisco doesn't you know show the momentum of an azure or a red hat or even a Google it's in that multi cloud game and my my premise is that cisco is coming at this opportunity from its strengths and networking and it's got more than a fighting chance why because cisco is in my view in the position to connect multiple clouds to on-prem and convince buyers that cisco is the best partner to make networks higher performance more secure and more cost-effective than the competition now let me wrap with some critical comments and then i'll end up on an opportunity with with some comments on edge so the first thing I want to say is well Cisco is dominant in a space it's missed a number of opportunities VMware has beaten Cisco to the punch in the initial move of course to virtual machines and then the nice Sara acquisition NSX as I've shown before is clearly has strong momentum in the market and is really eating into Cisco's core business Cisco's ACI does okay but it's definitely a sore spot Francisco and this represents a crack in the companies Armour containers the move to cloud native architectures is mostly a move to public cloud so it's a replacement or a displacement more so than a head-to-head competition that hurts Cisco here is John Fourier says you have you have cloud native and if you take the T out of cloud native you have cloud naive so cisco along with others must not beat cloud naive rather it has to remain relevant in the cloud as we discussed earlier in the multi cloud discussion now Cisco they were the king of converged infrastructure if you remember with the first wave of Vblock along with the Flex pod from NetApp and it you know changed the server game and drove UCS adoption and then guys like IBM and pure jumped in Cisco really became the standard now well hyper-converged infrastructure didn't really displace Cisco Networking you know Dell VMware with it with VX rail and Nutanix as well as HPE who's in the third position are posing a challenge that's so cisco cisco they everything they really don't play in the lucrative high margin external storage business but there's some challenges there that from a tam standpoint but I don't worry so much about that because despite all the rumors over the years specifically in storage that Cisco is going to buy a storage company and I think there are better opportunities in soft where in the end the edge and as I've said before storage right now is kind of on the back burner it's not it's a very difficult market for a company like Cisco to to enter so I want to talk more about the edge because they think it's a way better opportunity for Cisco Cisco among all the legacy tech vendors and my view could really compete for the edge and the reason I say this is because Cisco is the only legacy player in my opinion that is a solid solid developer strategy and it's because of dev net dev net is the initiative to make all Cisco products programmable we talk a lot about the API economy and infrastructure of code as code and what Cisco is doing is they're taking Cisco certified engineers like CC IES and all these people that they've trained over the years huge number of IT pros and they're retraining them and teaching them how to code on Cisco products to create new use cases new workloads and new applications specifically at the edge and Cisco products are designed to be programmable so they have a developer play and I've always said the edge is going to be won by developers this is why frankly I was so excited last week at reinvent about AWS outpost and the move they're making at the edge because they're essentially bringing their stack to the edge and making it programmable IBM failed to do this with bluemix they couldn't attract developers they they had to go by Red Hat for thirty four billion dollars you know Dell MC they have VMware and they have an opportunity with pivotal but that's got to come together they currently have very little developer synergy in my view specifically with Dell Hardware at least that I can see and there seems to be little or no effort to retrain storage admins and VM admins in the same way that cisco is is doing this with CC IES HPE essentially I see them like Dallin away throwing server boxes over the fence to the edge you know versus really attracting developers to identify sort of new workload new use cases so I like Cisco strategy in this regard and it's something that we're gonna continue to watch very closely and probe this week with Chuck Robbins okay this is date Volante sounding out from this episode of the cube insights powered by ETR thanks for watching everybody and we'll see you next time

>> Voiceover: Live from San Diego, California. It's the CUBE, covering Cisco Live U.S. 2019, brought to you by Cisco, and its EcoSystem Partners. >> Welcome back to San Diego, day two here, of Cisco Live 2019, I'm Dave Villante with my co-host Stu Miniman, Lisa Martin is also here. You're watching the Cube, the leader live tech coverage, we're here in the DevNet zone, which is a very happenin' place, and all the action is here the CCIE folks are getting trained up on how to do Infrastructure as Code. Terry Ramos is here, he's the Vice President of Alliances, at Cohesity, hot company, achieving escape velocity. Terry great to have you on. Good to see you again. >> Great to be here, really enjoy it. >> So Cisco is a big partner of yours, perhaps the biggest I know you don't like to say that, you love all your partners like you love your kids, but clearly a lot of good action going on with you guys. Talk about the partnership, where it started, how it's evolved. >> Sure so first off a little bit about Cohesity, I think would be helpful right, we're in the data management space, really helping customers with their data management, and how do they deal with the problem of mass data fragmentation, right if you think about the traditional data silos that enterprises have, we really take and level that out into one platform, our platform, and really allows customers to get the most out of their data. If we talk about the partnership with Cisco, it's actually a really good partnership. They have been an investor with us, both series C and D rounds. We recently, about three months ago announced that we were on the price book, so now a customer has the ability to go buy a Cisco UCS, Hyperflex, and Cohesity, as a cohesive bundle to solve their problems, right, to really help them grow. And then we are working on some new things, like Cisco Solutions Plus Support, where customers has a single call place, where they get all their support needs addressed. >> That's huge Stu, I remember when the, remember the Vblock when it first came out. It's a V support, I forget how many VMs, like thousands and thousands of VMs, and I just have one question, how do you back it up? And they went, and they were staring at their feet, so the fact that now you're bundled in to UCS HyperFlex, and that's part of the SKU, or its a different SKU or? >> Terry: Yeah they're all different SKUs, but it is bundled together. >> Yeah, so it's all integrated? It's a check box item, right okay? >> What we did was came up with the CVD, validated design so customers can get a validated design that says HyerFlex, UCS, Cohesity, here's how to deploy it, here's the best use cases, and they can actually go buy that, then it's a bundled solution. >> Terry brings us inside a little bit that go to market, because it's one thing to be partnered with CBDs, they're great but Cisco as you know hundred of these, if not more, but you know when you've got access to that Cisco channel out there, people that are transforming data centers, they talked about conversion infrastructure, hyper conversion infrastructure, Cisco UCS, tip of the spear for Cisco in that Data Center world, what does it mean to be that oh hey you know that whole channel, they are going to help get paid on that not just say oh yeah yeah that works. >> Yeah, I think that there's a few things for the channel for us, one is just Cisco's team themselves right, they don't have a backup solution so we are really the next gen backup and that's really helped them out. When we talk about Channel as well Channel partners are looking for a solution that differentiates them from everybody else. So we are a high touch sales team, but we are a hundred percent channel so working with the channel, giving them new ways actually to go out a sell the solution. >> So lets talk a little bit about backup, data protection, data insurance you know sort of we're trying to pass between, all right, what's the marketing and what's the reality for customers, so we remember the VM where Ascendancy days, it caused people to really have to rethink their backup and their data protection. What's driving it now? Why are so many customers kind of reassessing their backup approach and their overall data protection and data management? >> Yeah, I think it's the best analogy to last one is data management right, everybody has thought of data protection, it's just protecting your data. Backup and recovery. What we've done is really looked at it as it's data, you should be able to use your data however you want to. So, yeah we made do data protection on the platform, but then we do tests that, we do file shares, we do things like that, and we make it this cohesive data management platform, where customers get various use cases, but then they can look at their entire dataset, and that is really the key anymore. And when you talk about the data protection as it was, it was very silo. You data protect one set of systems, and data protect the next, and data protect the next. They never talked you couldn't do management across them. >> Dave: Okay so. >> Yeah yeah Terry. So I love when you're talking about the silos there, back in Barcelona we heard Cisco talking about HyperFlex anywhere, and some of the concerns of us have is, is multi-cloud the new multi vendor, and oh my gosh have I just created a whole bunch of silos that are just outside of my data center, like I used to do inside my data center. How's Cohesity helping to solve that solution for people from your. >> Yeah I think that's a interesting one. Cloud is really come along, right? Everybody thought we'll see what cloud does, it's really come a long way and people are using multi-cloud, so they are doing cloud on prem. Then they're archiving out to public cloud providers, and they're archiving out to other silos where they, or other data services where they have it, and that's really been the approach lately, is you can't just have your data in one location, you're going to move it out to the Cloud, you're going to store it on UCS and HyperFlex, and Cohesity. And again its how do you use that data, so that's the key is really that. But it is a cloud world for sure, where you're doing On-prem Cloud and Public Cloud. >> So today a lot of that focus, correct me it I am wrong, is infrastructure as a service? >> Yes >> Whether it's AWS, Google, you know Azure. Do you, have you started to think about, or are customers and partners asking you to think about, all the protecting all the data in SAS, is that something that's sort of on the road map are you hearing that for customers, or to is it still early for that? >> No I think that actually a great use case, if you talk about I'll just pick on one, Office 365 right, if you think about what they really provide it's availability right it's not backup so, if you need to back a year and get that critical email that you need for whatever reason, that's really not what they're doing. They're making sure it's up and running, and available to the users. So data protection for SAS apps is actually a new use case that I think is enormous. >> Okay so take Office 365 as an example, is that something you can protect today, or is that kind on the road map? >> That's something we can do today. >> So explain to our audience, why if I am using Office 365 which is in the Cloud, isn't Microsoft going to take care of that for me, why do I need Cohesity explain? >> Yeah, I think it is really comes down to that, it's they're really providing availability, yeah they have some backup services, but even if they do it's not tying into your overall data management solution. And so backing up O-365 gives you access to all that data as well, so you can do algorithms on it, analytics all those things once it's part of the bigger platform. >> And you probably have more facile recovery, which is, backup is one thing, recovery Stu. >> Is a everything. >> There you go. >> It is. (laugh) >> Terry talk to us about your customers, how about any big you know Cisco joint customers that you can talk about but would love to hear some of the latest from your customers? >> Yeah I think when we started this partnership awhile ago, what we really focused on Cohesity on UCS, and we got some traction there. When we went on the price sheet that really changed, things because the customers are now able to buy on a single price sheet. When you talk about the large customers it's been incredible the last three, four months, the numbers of joint customers that we've been in, and Cisco's been in, and its enterprise customers, it's the fortune five hundred customers that we're going after. A customer that's here later today, Quantium is a great use case. They're data analytics, they're AI, and they're providing a lot of information to customers on supply chain. And he's here later today on the CUBE, and it's a really great use case to what they are doing with it. >> Yeah we're excited to talk to him so lets do a little prep for him, what, tell us about Quantium, what do you know about them so we, gives us the bumper sticker so we're ready for the interview. >> Craig will do a much better job of it, but my understanding is they're looking at data, supply chain data, when to get customers in, when they should have product there, propensity to buy, all of those things, and they are doing all that for very large enterprise customers, and then they're using us to data protect all that they do. >> So, so the reason I asked that is I wanted to double click on that, because you've been stressing Terry, that it's not just backup. It's this notion of data management. You can do Analytics, you can do other things. So when you, lets generalize and lets not make it specific to Quantium, we'll talk to them later, but what specifically are customers doing beyond backup? What kind of analytics are they doing? How is affecting their business? What kind of outcomes are they trying to drive? >> Yeah I think it's a great question, we did something about four months ago, where we replaced released the market place. So now we've gotten all this data from data protection, file shares, test-dev, cloud as we talked about. So we've got this platform with all this data on top of it, and now partners can come in and write apps on top to do all sorts of things with that data. So think of being able to spin up a VM in our platform, do some Analytics on it, looking at it for any number of things, and then destroy it right, destroy the backup copy not the backup the copy that's made, and then be able to go to the next one, and really get deep into what data is on there, how can I use that data, how can I use that data across various applications? >> Are you seeing, I've sort have always thought the corpus, the backup corpus could be used in a security context, not you know, not to compete with Palo Alto Networks but specifically to assess exposure to things like Ransomware. If you see some anomalous behavior 'cause stuff when it goes bad it goes bad quickly these days, so are you seeing those types of use cases emerging? >> Absolutely, ransomware is actually a really big use case for us right now, where customers are wanting data protection to ensure Ransomware's not happening, and if they do get hit how do we make sure to restart quickly. Give you another example is we have a ClamAV so we can spin up a VM and check it for anitivirus. Right in their data protection mode so not without, not touching the production systems but touching the systems that are already backed up. >> I think you guys recently made an acquisition of a Manas Data which if I recall correctly was a specialized, sort of data protection company focused on things like, NoSQL and maybe Hadoop and so forth, so that's cool. We had those guys on in New York City last fall. And then, so I like that, building out the portfolio. My question is around containers, and all this cloud native stuff going on we're in the DevNet zone so a lot DevOps action, data protection for containers are you, your customers and your partners are they sort of pushing you in that direction, how are you responding? >> Yeah I think when you talk about cloud in general right, there's been a huge amount of VMs that are there, containers are there as well so yeah customers are absolutely talking about containers. Our market place is a container based market place, so containers are absolutely a big thing for us. >> So what else can you share with us about you know conversations that you're having with customers and partners at the show? What are the, what's the narrative like? What are some of the big concerns, maybe that again either customers or partners have? >> Yeah I don't want to sound like a broken record but I think the biggest thing we hear always is the data silos, right? It's really breaking down those silos, getting rid of the old legacy silos where you can't use the data how you want to, where you can't run analytics across the data. That is the number one talk track that customers tell us. >> So how does that fit in, you know the old buzz word of digital transformation, but we always say the difference between a business and a digital business is how they use data. And if you think about how a traditional business looks at it's data, well that data's all in silos as you pointed out and there's something in the middle like a business process or a bottling plant or... >> That's right. >> manufacturing facility, but the data's all dispersed in silos, are you seeing people, as at least as part of their digital transformation, leveraging you guys to put that data in at least in a logical place that they can do those analytics and maybe you could add some color to that scenario. >> Yeah, for sure, I mean the data from I'll give you a great example. The CBD we just did with Cisco, the updated one has Edge. So now when you're talking about plants and branch offices and those things, now we can bring that data back in to the central core as well, do analytics on it, and then push it to other offices for updated information. So absolutely, it is a big use case of, it's not just looking at that core central data center. How do you get that data from your other offices, from your retail locations, from your manufacturing plants. >> Final thoughts. San Diego, good venue you know great weather. >> Beautiful. >> Cisco Live. >> Yeah. >> Dave: Put a bumper sticker on it. >> I'm impressed with Cisco Live. I haven't been here in several years. It's an impressive show, 26 thousand people, great, beautiful weather, great convention center. Just a great place to be right now. >> All right and we're bring it all to you live from the CUBE. Thank you Terry for coming on. Dave Villante, for Stu Miniman, Lisa Martin is also here. Day two, Cisco Live, 2019. You're watching the CUBE, we'll be right back. (upbeat techno music)

[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] hi I'm Stu minimun with wiki bond and welcome to another wiki bond the cube digital community event this one sponsored by Dell EMC of course it's a big week in the industry VMware is having their big European show in Barcelona VMworld and while we are not there in person we have some news that we want to dig into with Dell EMC so like all of our digital community events we're gonna have about 25 minutes of video and then afterwards we're going to have a crowd chat we're gonna have a panel where you have the opportunity to dig in ask your questions give us your viewpoint and talk about everything that's going on so it's important to pay attention think about what questions participate in the crowd chat afterward and thanks so much for joining us talk about the business issues of the day to help us frame this discussion I'm happy to welcome back to the program Pete manka who's the senior vice president with converged infrastructure and solutions engineering at Dell MC Pete great to see you great see you Tuesday all right so Pete converged infrastructures come a long way you and I have a lot of history in this space you know more than a decade now we've been in here so but from a customer standpoint you know this has matured a lot I wouldn't want you to start out give us the customer perspective you know what was convergent restrictor designed to do how is it living up to that and you know what's the state of it today sure well as you said we've got a long history in this and ten years ago we started this business to really simplify IT operations for our customers and we tried to remove the silos between storage compute and networking management and we're doing that we created this market called converged infrastructure by converging the management of those three siloed operations in doing so we added a tremendous amount of value for our customers fast forward now over the years earlier this year we come up with a product that the BX block 1000 that allows us to scale considerably greater within a single environment adding more value to our customer we're very customer driven at Dell EMC as you know and so we talked to our customers again and said what else do you want what else do you want and they pushed us for more automation in more monitoring support for the product and that's really what we're here to talk about today is how we get from simplifying IT operations for customers through allowing scale architectures to eventually automating the customers environment for them yeah when you talk about simplification that the the industry has really been really galvanized gotten really excited at hyper-converged infrastructure and I hear simple that's kind of what HCI is gonna do Dell of course has both converged and hyper-converged we've talked a lot as to how they both fit maybe now you know give give us the update as to you know the relevance of CI today while HCI is still continuing to grow really that sure yeah HDI is a hot market obviously and it is growing fast and customers should be excited about HDI because it's a great solution right it enables the customers get an application up and running very quickly and it's great for scale out architectures you want to add symmetric type nodes and skill oh you're at your application your architecture it's great for that but like all architectures it doesn't fit all solutions or all problems for the customers and there's a place for CI and there's a place for HCI the end you think about HCI versus CI CI is great for asymmetrically scaling architectures you want to have more storage more networking more memory inside your servers more compute you can do that through a CI portfolio and for customers who need that asymmetrical scaling for customers who need high availability very efficient scale type storage environments scale of compute environments you can do that through a CI platform much more efficiently than you can through other platforms in the market alright Pete you mentioned that there was announcement earlier in the year that the VX block 1000 so for those that don't have hauled of history like us that followed from the V block of the BX block and now the 1000 helped remind us what was different about this from things in the past sure when we first started out in the conversion structure business we had blocks that were specific to storage configurations if you wanted a unity or v-max you had to buy a specific model of our of our VX block product line that's great but we realize customers and customers told us they wanted a mix environment they wanted to have a multi-use environment in their block so we created the VX block 1000 announced in February and it allows you to mix and match your storage sand bar along with your compute environment and scales out at a much greater capacity than we could through the original block design so and we're providing the customer a much larger footprint managed by within a single block but also a choice allowing them to have multiple application configurations within the same block all right so people now what what's Del DMC doing to bring converged infrastructure for it even more how are we expanding you know what it's gonna do for customers and the problems they're looking to solve yeah right so again we went back to our customers that said ok tell us your experience with block you tell us what you like tell us what you don't like and they love the product it's been a very successful product they said we want more automation we want more monitoring you want the ability to see what's happening as well as automate workflows and procedures that we have to do to get our workloads up and running quicker and more automated fashion so what we're gonna talk about today is how we're going to do that we're going to provide more automation capabilities and the ability to monitor through our VM work you realize suite toolset alright great Pete I appreciate you helping kind of lay the groundwork we're gonna be back in a quick second one of your peers from Dell MC to dig into the product so stay with us we'll be back right after this this quick break [Music] vx block system 1000 simplifies IT accelerates the pace of innovation and reduces operating costs storage compute networking and virtualization components are all unified in a single system transforming operations and delivering better business outcomes faster this is achieved by five foundational pillars that set Dell EMC apart as the leading data center solutions provider each VX blocks system 1000 is engineered manufactured managed sustained and supported as one welcome back joining me to dig into this announcement is Dan Mita who's the vice president of converged infrastructure engineering at Dell EMC damn thanks for joining us thanks for having me all right so Pete kind of teased out of what we're doing here talked about what we've been building on for the last ten years in the converging infrastructure industry please elaborate you know what this is and shuttle from there yeah absolutely so to your point we know customers have been buying VX blocks and V blocks for the last ten years and there's lots of good reasons behind all of that we also know that customers been asking us for better monitoring better reporting and more orchestration capabilities we this announcement we think we're meeting those challenges so there's three things that I'd like to talk about one is we're gonna help customers raise the bar around awareness of what's going on within the environment we'll do that through health checks and dashboards performance dashboarding real-time alerting for the first time the second thing we'll talk about is we talked about a different level of automation than we've ever had before when it comes to orchestration we'll be introducing the ability to set up the services necessary to run orchestrated workflows and then our intention is to bring to market those engineered workflows and lastly would be you know analytics deeper analytics for customers that want to go even further into why their system is drifted from a known good state we're gonna give them the capabilities to see that great so Dan I think back from the earliest days that you know Vblock was always architected to you know transform the way operations are done what really differentiates this you know how important is there are things like the analytics of you're doing yeah sure so you're right today our customers use element managers to do most of that what this tool will allow them to do is kind of abstract a lot of the complexity folk in the element managers themselves if you think about an example where our customer wants to provision an ESXi host add it to a cluster and you say a Power Max bulan we know there's about a dozen manual steps to do that it cuts across four element managers and that also means you're going to be touching your administrators across compute network storage and virtualization with this single tool that will guide you first by checking the environment taking you through an orderly set of questions or inputs and then lastly validating the environment we know that we're going to help customers eliminate any undue harm that might do to an environment but we're also gonna save them time effort and money by getting it done quicker ok so Dan it sounds like there's a new suite of software explain it exactly what is it and how do all these pieces fit together yeah so there's three pieces in this week foundational is what we call the X blocks central so the X Box central is going to go out mandatory with all new VX blocks we're also going to make it available to our customers running older 300 500 and 700 family the X blocks and we'll provide a migration path for customers that are using vision today that's the tool that's going to allow them to do that performance health and RCM compliance dashboarding as well as do metrics based in real-time alerting one loved one step up from that one layer up from that is what we call the X block orchestration so this this product is being built underneath the V realize operations or excuse me orchestration tool and it's essentially like I said it's going to provide those all of those tools for setting up the services to run the workflows and then we'll provide those workflows so that example that I gave just a minute ago about provisioning that host will have a workflow from that right out of the gate ok so you mentioned the the vir ops thing you know VMware has always been a you know a very important piece of the whole stack there's yeah be in front of everything in the product line while you're announcing it this week at you know vmworld your and you know explain a little bit more that integration between the VMware pieces so you mentioned V Rob's and that's the third piece in this suite right so that is that it's going to provide us the dashboarding to provide all of that detailed analytics so if you think about it we're using V realized opera orchestra ssin as a workflow engine we're using V ROPS for that intelligent insight into the operations as a framework for the things that we're doing but essentially what we've given customers at this point is a framework for a cloud management or a cloud operations model sitting on top of a converged infrastructure alright Dan thanks for explaining all that now we're gonna throw it over to a customer to really hear what they think of this announcement when we started to talk about the needs to innovate within business technology and move forward with the business we knew we had to advance our technology offerings standardize our data center and help bring all our technology to current date vs block allowed us to do that in one purchase and also allowed us to basically bring our entire data center ten years forward with one step the benefits we've seen from the X block from my side of the house I now have that sleep at night capability because I have full high availability I have industry-leading technology the performance is there their applications are now more available we now have a platform where we can modernize our entire system we can add blades we can add storage we can add networking as we need it out of the box all knowing that it's been engineered and architected to work together it has literally set it and forget it for us we go about our daily business and now we've transitioned from a maintenance time set and a maintenance mindset to now we can participate in meetings to help drive business innovation help drive digital transformation within our company and really be that true IT strategic partner the business is looking for with the implementation of VX blocks central upcoming we should be able to get a better idea of what's going on in our VX block through one dashboard we're very sensitive about the number of dashboards we try to view do the whole death bi dashboard situation especially for a small team we really believe yes block central is going to be beneficial for us to have a quick health overview of our entire unit encompassing all components as we discussed additional features coming out for the VX block one of the more interesting ones for me was to see the integration of VMware's be realized product into the VX block most importantly focused around orchestration and analytics that's something that we don't do a lot of right now but as our company continues to grow and we continue to expand our VX block into additional offerings I can see that being beneficial especially for our small team being able to you know or orchestrate and automate kind of daily tasks that we do now may benefit our team in the future and then the analytics piece as we continue to be a almost a service provider for our business partners having that analytic information available to us could be very beneficial from a from a cost revenue standpoint for us to show kind of the return on investment for our company one of the things that we kind of look forward to that the opportunities of VX block is going to give us given the feature set that's coming out is the ability to use automation for some of our daily business tasks that maybe is something as simple as moving a virtual machine from one host to another that seems pretty mundane at this point but as our company grows and workloads get more complex having the automation availability to be able to do that and have VMware do that on its own it's going to benefit our team always love hearing from customers I'm Peter Burris here in our Palo Alto studios let's also hear from a very important partner in this overall announcement that's VMware we've got OJ Singh who's a senior vice president and general manager the cloud management business unit at VMware with us AJ welcome to the cube thank you Peter of that to be here so Archie we've been hearing a lot of great new technology about you know converged infrastructure and how you do better automation and how you do better you know discovery and whatnot associated with it but these technologies been for around for a while and VMware has been a crucial partner of this journey for quite some time give us a little bit about the history absolutely you know this is a as you rightly pointed a long history with a VMware and Dell EMC goes back over a decade ago I started with Vblock in those days and we literally defined the converged infrastructure market at that point and and this partnership has continued to evolve and so this announcement we are really excited to be here you know to continue to announce our joint solutions to our common customers you know in this whole VX blocks 1000 along with the vitalife suite well the VX block Hardware foundation with VMware software foundation was one of the first places where customers actually started building what we now call private clouds tell us a little bit about how that technology came together and how that vision came together and how your customers have been responding to this combinations partnership for a while absolutely if you think about it from a customer standpoint they love the fact that it is a pre engineered solution and you know they have to put less effort and doing the lifecycle management maintenance of the solution so as part of kind of making it a pre engineered solution what we've done is you know made it such that the integrations between the VX block and visualize are out of the box so we put some critical components you know are of course the vSphere and NSX in there but in addition to that for the virial I set we have vro Orchestrator already built in there we have a special management pack that gets into detail dashboards that are related to the hardware associated with the X block also pre integrated in there so that if via ops runs in there it'll automatically kind of figure that as a dashboard out and can configure them and then finally we have VRA or you know an industry-leading automation platform that allows you self-service and literally build a private cloud on top of the X block so the VX central software has been letting or is now allows a customer to make better use of VMware yes similarly some of the new advancements that you're making within VMware are going to help VX bar customers get more out of their devices as well tell us a little bit about some of the recent announcements you've made that are very complimentary absolutely you know to some extent you know the V realized journey has been a journey about at the end of the day in enabling our customers to set up a self-managed private cloud and do large extent we're heading in the direction of what we say self-driving operations using machine learning technologies and all of that so in that kind of direction in that vision if you may we've actually now released with a great integration between VRA and via ops that for the first time closes the loop between the two solutions so that you can start to do intelligent workload placement right depending upon if I'm trying to optimize for cost I'm trying to optimize for tier of service you know whether it's bronze silver gold tier service I'm trying to optimize for software license management you know Oracle license is only going on Oracle tier etcetera this closed-loop with policy ensures you do that and that's the first step in this direction of self-driving that's a very important direction because customers are gonna try to build more complex systems based on or support more complex applications without at the same time seeing that complexity show up in the administration side now that leaves the last question I have because ultimately the two of you are working to make together to make customers successful so tell us a little bit about how your track record your history and your direction of working together in support in service to customers is going and where you think it's gonna go absolutely so we continue to work very closely in partnership and as partners we are committed to support our customers through thick and thin you know to make sure that they can have these engineered pre-engineered clouds set up so they can get the benefits of these clouds lower cost to serve you know in terms of highly efficient workload the fact as much as possible in the you know let me tell about of hardware that's available and at the same time the automation and the self-service that enables the agility so the development teams can build software quickly I think provision software really fast so those are the kind of benefits lower cost agility but in partnership jointly serving our customers RJ Singh senior vice president general manager of the VMware cloud management business unit thanks again for beyond the cube thank you Peter glad to be here Stu back to you all right thanks Peter for sharing that VMware perspective to help understand a little bit more some of the customer implications we're back with Dan and Pete Pete we talked about there's new management there's a few different software packages is this exclusively for the new generation of VX block 1000 or you know who the existing customers will be able to use this sure I mean obviously advanced management features are important to all of our customers so we specifically designed the Xbox central to run both on existing VX block customers and of course in our new VX blocks that were a lot of the factor as well alright so Dan we've talked about the progress we've made the the you know great maturation in these solutions set what's next what customers expect and what should we be looking for from Dellums in the future so this the thing with us is always data center operations simplification if you think about it what we're introducing today is all about simplifying and provisioning and management of the existing system within the system we've heard also from customers what they look for us next to do is to try to improve the upgrade process simplify that as well so we've already got some development efforts working on that we'll be excited and news for later this year or early next year janna follow-up went dance that we always talked to our customers about what they're looking for in addition to more automation and we're monitoring support they want to go to consume their resources in a more agile environment cloud like a farm and even on-premises so that combined with the be realized suite of products we're going to be providing more cloud live experience to our customers for their yeah walks in the future alright Pete and Dan thank you so much for sharing this news we're gonna now turn it over to the community so you've heard about the announcement we've been talking for quite a long time at wiki bond about how automation and tools are gonna hopefully help make your job easier so want you to dig in ask the questions what do you like what do you want to see more of and so everybody let's growl chat great

>> Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE. Covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. This is Stu Miniman and you're watching theCUBE's coverage of Cisco Live 2018 in Orlando, Florida. Happy to welcome to the program, welcome back to the program first, Vinu Thomas, who's the CTO of Presidio and welcome to the program for the first time Brad Haczynski, who's a general manager with Intel. Gentleman, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you Stu for having us. >> Alright so, we're about the midway point of the show. It actually been many years since I'd been at Cisco Live. 26,000 people here. Seeing a large transformation in what's going on from Cisco, you know, still dominant in the network space, but talk a lot about cloud. We're here in the DevNet Zone, where, you know, one of the big news pieces was 500,000 developers registered on the platform here. What's your take been of the show so far? >> Yeah, I mean Presidio has been a long term proud partner with Cisco. We've been a gold and master partner for the longest time. As Cisco started to really transition into the software design world, Presidio started investing along with Cisco. So back at the DevNet Zone, you'll find that Presidio has a number of showcase items about DevOps, especially about things like Cat9k and HyperFlex. So we are excited on this partnership with Cisco, and with Intel, and what we are trying to do. So, good times. >> Yeah, Brad, same for you. >> Oh absolutely. I think this is my fifth Cisco Live. And seeing the evolution of Cisco as they traverse from becoming a hardware centric company into a company that's truly evolving around software, and services, and capabilities. As the world becomes more complicated, they're truly innovating in ways to create the business outcomes that customers are looking for in these complicated environments. And as Intel, it's been really exciting because we transform into a data centric company. We talk a lot about that. The Intel technology has been the underpinning of many of the Cisco technologies that are continuing then down this path. And of course our great partnership with Presidio it's a great triangulation effect and it's great to see at Cisco Live. >> Vinu, change isn't always easy. I think back actually, you know, I've worked a long time on the vendor side. And when Cisco came out with UCS and started doing things like Vblock, you know there were some folks at Presidio who were like, "We make a lot of money racking, stacking, cabling" "these solutions." Conversion infrastructure, hyper conversion structure, cloud solutions. Talk a little bit about the partnership. How Presidio's been, you know, helping to expand and mature with these offerings. >> Yeah, you know the whole digital transformation is the one that's driving this move from legacy three tier architecture into conversation to hyper conversion to multicloud. And what we've realized along this journey is we had to transform ourselves. So we went from saying, "You know, look we wanted to be" "the number one digital transformation" "solutions provider building secure" "digital infrastructure in a multicloud world." And for us to be in a position to put that vision into execution, we had to really partner with Cisco, partner with companies like VMware and Vblock and obviously the other providers in the hyper converg space and also with Intel to really try and take our ability to, not just rack and stack, but to design solutions so we created what we call as Presidio Data Center Solutions Set where we bring all this together. We're able to do some custom modification on these things. And we had to that because that's what our customers were asking us for. And then wrap that around with managed services so we can essentially offer a true platform as a service. >> Yeah, I'd love to hear from your viewpoint. What are your customers saying to you when you know, they say "I've got a cloud strategy" or "I'm building my cloud strategy." What does that mean to them? What's important to them? And you know, I'm sure you got solutions that fit. >> Yeah, we, you know Stu, we've seen a slight change. It used to be that it was a cloud first strategy. And now I would kinda as a cloud right strategy. Which is let me choose the right cloud for the right type of workload. Make sure that I have an optimized workload placement in which cloud. One of the value adds that we bring is we can evaluate all those workloads and applications and your use cases, like your data center, and then recommend to you, in partnership with Cisco and Intel, what is the right placement for your workload. Now when you look at what is coming up in the future is, you know, the world is getting into containers. And you look at Cisco's strategy with containers. You know, their Cisco container platform, what they're doing with Google, Presidio's right in the center of that along with Intel. Where we are building solutions in a multicloud fashion. So HyperFlex for the on-prem. Running on top of HyperFlex is a Cisco container platform and then we are able to then take that and merge that with Google Cloud. That's what customers want. They want that flexibility to say, "If this is the workload that needs to be on-prem, great." "If this is something that I need to move" "as my applications get containerized," that's what they want to go to. >> Yeah, Brad. You've got a large team playing in all of these environments. I remember, you know, optimization for virtualization, back in the day. When I was first learning about containers, Intel Developer Form was one of the places I went to go learn about this. Build on what Vinu was saying as to, you know, where your teams are making bets and helping to, you know, optimize and build solutions for customers. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think Vinu said it very well. Especially if your auger in on the world of cloud. One of the challenges, I think, enterprise customers have really had is, it's about cloud's economics. I think that's basically the underpinning of what Vinu was talking about is the economies of scale and capability of the large public cloud service providers have caused most enterprise customers to pause. So I think what customers are really looking for is, "How do I deploy applications?" The scalability with ease of deployment while having policy round security, networking, compute storage, et cetera. And then move the applications around the data center. What Intel does is we work very closely with Cisco as they're designing a lot of these platforms. HyperFlex is an example is you know, utilizing, best utilizing some of the underpinnings of the C compiler or whether it's the ISL instruction set. The storage acceleration libraries which are part of the CPU telemetry. In which they can, you know, take the code from Springpath and really fine tune it to get the best performance. And then by the time, you know, Presidio gets it in house, they further fine tune it for the customer needs. So it's just a great triangulation. And then we want a scale when Cisco scales in the market, Intel wins. Across the entire stack of compute, network, and storage. So, therefore, it's very very you know, we're all in the same boat rowing in the same direction. >> It's a very good cohesive partnership. >> Yes, cohesiveness. >> It's so funny, cuz so much has wave. We talk a lot about simplicity. And it's like, oh well, you know, HCI and public cloud we're gonna make it really simple. It's gonna be heterogeneous. Some people like, oh remember it was like white box and nothing fancy. It's like, underneath the covers there's a lot that goes in to make sure that. I say we're in a world of hyper optimization. >> Yes. >> Because there's a lot of things that have to. Talk a little bit about that balance. >> So a perfect example of that is what we build in partnership with Intel and Cisco is a Presidio Data Center Solutions Set. So the challenge our customers were having is, yeah, it's great to get a hyper converg, but the hyper converg has to plug into something. It has to be on a rack. It has to be, you know, power cooling has to be measured. You know, we have to get telemetry data you know, using Intel CPUs. So what we decided to do was, we built a custom based solution, call it a cloud in a box, with hyper converged, with the networking gear in it, with advance software solutions, with power cooling, and we wrapped around our professional services and managed services. And what we also helped our customers to do is if they decided that they want to consume this as a service in a OpEx model, we could do that. If they wanted to do it in a CapEx, we could do that. So we made it very flexible. Because it's not just about hyper converg. Hyper converg has to connect. Hyper converg has to be load balanced. Then there's a possibility that you want to connect to a GCP or an AWS so, there was a lot of things that we could do with that. >> Yeah Brad, we talk about customers want to have a similar operating model. Whether it's in their data center or you know, outside of their environment. You know, I think Intel at the bottom layer helps but how do you help make sure there's flexibility as customers choose all of their various solutions in a multicloud world? >> Well, first and foremost, I think that has a lot to do with, we have a significant partnership with most of the public cloud service providers. It's no secret that, you know, whether it's GCP, it's AWS or it's Azure, or even Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent, that these data centers are built upon Intel technologies. And then as you get back into the on-prem data center at the enterprise, the close work we do with Cisco and with partners like Presidio. I'll give you a perfect example is, when you look at one of the strengths Cisco's had traditionally over the years, it's this developer community. And it was the developer community what seems to have been born in networking and the networking spaces, and it's really created scale for Cisco. Well as you look at the nascent technologies there's two things we see. One is application developers inside of the enterprise IT, don't have a simple way to build applications. So they go do a swipe on AWS. Start a instantiation to write an application, but with things like OpenShift and working with Cisco on a redhat, enterprise easy DevOps platform, or things like container development. We work very closely with Google and GKE on the Kubernetes development and the Kubernetes engine. As well as with Cisco. And then so, when you bring that all together and you say, "Now we have a developer community" "of a technology, which is clearly the future," "which is containers." And Cisco working with Intel, Cisco working with Presidio, Intel working with Presidio, it's really a three legged stool. And how do we refine the capabilities and also help define the future roadmap requirements in order to become, add more value for the customers. >> And I think that's a, just to, you know, piggyback to what Brad said. I think that's a key aspect too, right, is. When you look at our customers when they ask us to come up with stuff. Cisco, Presidio, Intel, we're not shy to make those investments, because there might be customer requirements that are very unique. And it's almost bespoke. That we have to work on those kind of solutions and it's great to have partners that are ready to invest with us and make those investments, and, you know, make those changes. >> Great. Want to give you both a final world. What should we look for going forward? You know, some areas, maybe, that you're pushing new solutions in? You talked about, you know, analytics and the like. >> Yup. >> What should we look for as the partnership continues to grow in the future? >> Yeah so, when you look at Presidio's go to market here, we are focused on three key areas. One is digital infrastructure, multicloud, and then security. And in addition we want to really focus on data analytics and business insights. So, digital infrastructure for us is the whole software defined infrastructure. That's getting more and more automated and orchestrated. Multicloud, you know, you gonna see us make more investments in container technology as well as working with companies like Google and Intel, and the whole GKE, the Google Kubernetes engine. And then in the security part at the end of the day, everything we do has to be secure. It's not about pulling point products, it has to be a full fledged strategy. And then the last thing our customers are asking us is "We've build us this software defined infrastructure," "in a multicloud along with security." "Can you give me business insights?" So this is where we are working very closely with Intel and Cisco on tetration, which is the whole network flow and security analytics that, you know, obviously is powered by the telemetry from Intel CPUs, and you're gonna see us make more investments there with tetration, with you know, obviously app dynamics and companies like, Splunk. So. I think that's what you're gonna see us do a lot in the future. >> Yeah, I think, well said Vinu. And I think at a very basic level, all of this software, all the complexity, all of the security is gonna require more insatiable desire for Compute. But Intel's clearly investing beyond Compute. We're very open about becoming a data centric company, looking at about how this tidal wave of data's coming in a world of billions of connected devices. So as Intel continues to invest, whether it's in FPGAs, storage memory technologies, you know, the blog for the launch of HyperFlex 3.5 just went out, an all NVNe version, of HyperFlex. And then we're gonna talk on Thursday about using Optane, Intel Optane technology as a caching tier. FPGAs, over into silicon photonics technology. There's just a wealth of capabilities in silicon, that Intel's bringing the market to bear. And working with our partners, again like, Presidio to understand. By the way, the way we do business at Intel is, we have an account team that also calls on Presidio. And what we do is, our team triangulates with them. So Presidio is understanding the future roadmap of technologies from Intel at the same time Cisco's understanding it. Cisco then can innovate on platforms based on Intel technologies, but as Presidio knows what's comin' down the pike, they can start building their plans for how they can then take it from Cisco's hands, further encapsulate it in a valuable offering, say cloud in a box as you said so well, and deliver easy business outcomes for the customers. >> Yup. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, absolutely. For a long we watched the tick tock coming out of Intel, as what drove innovation and you know, new advancements in the industry. Now everyone's moving faster, even Intel. You know, it's not the chip itself that is the you know, driving factor of all the change. So, Brad, Vinu, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you Stu. >> Absolutely, thank you Stu. >> Thank you so much for having us. >> Really appreciate all the updates and congrats on the progress. >> Thank you. Alright we'll be back here with lots more coverage three days wall to wall coverage of Cisco Live 2018 here in Orlando. I'm Stu Miniman and thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Chicago, Illinois, it's theCUBE, covering VeeamOn 2018. Brought to you my Veeam. >> Welcome back to Chicago everybody. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, and we are covering VeeamOn 2018, #VeaamOn. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my cohost Stuart Miniman, Duncan Epping is here, Chief Technologist, Storage and Availability at VMWare and the world's number one blogger in virtualization, Yellow Bricks, yellow-bricks.com. Duncan, thanks very much coming to theCUBE. Good to see you. >> No problem, my pleasure, it's been a while. I actually hoped to be on the show probably six, seven, eight years ago, I don't know how long it is, but I've watched many episodes. So it's great to be part of it. >> Well great, Duncan one of the biggest problems is you're so busy, every year at VM World you were totally booked up, so no thanks so much we're so glad we could do this. >> So Stu and I remember the peer insight we did many many years ago back when we had Boonyon on recently, and he was talking about when VMWare sort of created virtualization, it pushed the bottle neck around. It created a lot of stress on the storage systems. And WMWare for years dealt with that through API integration and the like and very well sort of covered. But I wonder if you could take us through your perspectives of the journey of storage at VMWare and generally, or specifically, and virtualization generally. >> Yeah, it's a good question. I think everyone that has been part of the community has faced all of the different challenges from a storage perspective. I mean, Stu, you now what kind of problem EMC had when VMWare first started doing virtualization. And I think the key reasons for these were fairly straightforward. When we started virtualization and we started leveraging shared storage systems, those shared storage systems were never designed with virtualization in the back of their minds. They were designed for physical workloads, maybe one or two machines connected to it, you know in larger volume it may be 10 or 15, but not 10 or 15 physical hosts with hundred of virtual machines. So we started noticing is that from a performance perspective systems were lagging, we were doing all sorts of things to the storage systems that they weren't expecting, virtual machine snapshots. They were seeing IO patterns that they had never seen before. Instead of sequential IO we had a lot of random IOs so we had to start doing different things from a storage perspective so as you said, we started with APIs, we had the vSPhere APIs for IO filtering, we have the Divi APIs, the array integration, so that we can offload some of the functionality, but of course on top of that what we started doing within VMWare is we started exploring what we could do smarter from a storage point from our stance. So not just looking at how we can help the ecosystem, but also what we can do from our perspective, so there were two main efforts over the past couple of years. The first one is virtual volumes. It has taken a while before the adoption ramped up. I think part of that is mainly because a lot of our customer base was still on vSphere 5.5. Now that we're starting to see broader adoption of vSphere 6.0 and actually 6.5 and 6.7, we're starting to see the adoption of stuff like virtual volumes go up as well. That is also due to the fact that our partners like Pure Storage, Nimble, HP with 3PAR has been pushing or have been pushing VVols tremendously. So they've done a great job, and we're starting to see a lot of customers adopting VVols, and that way we're getting around some of the limitations that we have from a traditional storage perspective. >> Explain that, what are customers telling you about the benefits that they're getting out of VVols and VVol and VVol adoption? >> Well, there's two main things. It kind of depends on what kind of problems you're facing, but a lot of customers come to us with management issues and scalability issues. From a scalability perspective we have larger customers that literally have thousands of volumes. If you look at an E6 cluster today you're limited in terms of the numbers of volumes you can connect to a cluster. So that's one thing. As soon as they start moving to VVols now they're not managing those individual volumes anymore but they're managing the storage system as a whole, and they start creating policies, and that's where the management aspect comes into play. So it becomes a lot easier to manage, because instead of having thousands of volumes to select from, they don't normally have to look at a spreadsheet, for instance, to figure out where to place a virtual machine, now they simply make a policy and the policy engine will figure out where to place that virtual machine. >> Dave: It sounds like cloud. >> It actually is, you know, the cloud version of, cloudified version of storage I would say. But it brings a lot of benefits. And the funny thing is that we've been talking about policies and policy engines for a long time, even in the cloud, but try to come up with one cloud that actually has a decent policy engine. Hardly anyone has that today. From a storage perspective I think storage policy based management framework that VMWare has is quite unique. Well now we're starting to see that popping up in other areas, and that's the strange thing about it. >> Always back to the software mainframe Stu. >> Yeah, and Duncan one of the things we've really seen, a transition for, it took us about a decade to try and fix storage in a virtualized environment, and today most things are built either understanding virtualization, or at least that's part of the puzzle, and then of course VVols led us into was the ability for vSANs. Help us kind of transition that threshold as to how that's just kind of a given underneath for vSAN and other solutions like it. >> Yeah, if you look at vSAN it has been around for a while. The beta was in 2013, as you guys know. We have a large adoption, at least we saw a large increase over the last couple of years, I would say the last two years. You guys have spoken with Yangbing before, so you know about the business side of vSAN, I'm not going to cover that, but if you look at it from a technology perspective we stared developing this 2008, 2009, that's when we started thinking about what we could do different from a storage perspective. There were already some companies doing something in the hyperverge space and we figured we could do something significantly different than they were doing. They had a storage solution that sat on top of the hypervisor, we own the hypervisor so we can create something that sits within the hypervisor, and that's when we started looking at including these different technologies, so we started looking in how can we introduce things like deduplication and compression? What can we do with for ROBO solutions? Can we do something like stretch clustering in an easy way? There are a lot of stretch cluster solutions out there, but if you look at a stretch clustering solution today it typically takes weeks to implement that. If you look at something like vSAN, it was our aim to actually to be able to deploy something like that from a storage perspective within hours instead of weeks, right? And we've been able to achieve that, and it has been a huge undertaking, but I think it's fair to say that it has been rather successful. >> All right, Duncan, help connect the dots to where we are here at VeeamOn. It's funny, I think Veeam started out heavily in virtualization, still heavily involved in virtualization, they've got a v in the beginning of their name. When I hear the keynote this morning, a lot of hyper, reminded me of before we had, before hyperconverge fully took over, VMWare tried to call it a hypervisor converge system around VMWare, so talk to us a little bit about data protection, the Veeam relationship and how that fits into things like vSAN and vSphere? >> Yeah I think, I talk to a lot of customers as a Chief Technologist, it's part of my role to talk to customers and have discussions about what's on top of their mind. Data protection is always one of those things that comes up. I would say it's always in the top three. Whenever you talk to a CIO, a CTO, protection of the data, availability of data, resiliency, reliability, it's fairly important. Veeam of course, for us, is a great partner. Primarily because of the simplicity of the features and the products that they offer. Whenever I talk to a customer and they explain how difficult it is to manage their backup and recovery solutions I always point them to a partner like Veeam simply because it's going to make their life a lot easier if you ask me. And I can see that Veeam is slowly transitioning. As you mentioned, the v is in front of the name. The v is in front of our name as well, but we know that it's not, the whole world isn't just VMWare and the whole world isn't just virtual. There's a lot of other different solutions out there, and actually Veeam's looking at other revenue streams as well. I would argue, though, if you're looking at something like the edge space which I think that more or less exploring at looking at things like IoT, there's going to be some form of virtualization within that, whether that's VMWare based or another solution of course is going to be the question. That is something that we'll need to figure out in the upcoming years, but I think there's a big opportunity out there. If you ask me, the keynote was really interesting. I kind of missed the end of details. I'm hoping that the closing keynote is going to give some more details on what they will be doing in the IoT space, how they see their solution evolving from that point of view because it's a market that's still being developed, but that's definitely going to be interesting. >> So Duncan it's interesting to hear you say that when you talk to customers data protection is in the top three, even amongst CIOs. It used to not be that way. Data protection was always a bolt on, it was an afterthought, it was kind of one size fits all. What's changed? >> Well I think the importance of the data has changed. If you look over the last 10 years whenever you talk to any company out there that has lost any significant amount of data they understand what the value was of the data that they were hosting. I think the big difference over the past 10 years is in the past we had applications like email, maybe some file services and that's it. But now everything revolves around applications, and that's also the shift that I'm seeing in the industry. Also from an IT perspective, right? In the past, over the past decade I think everyone has been focused on the infrastructure layer. If you look at something like VBlock, very much infrastructure focused. If you look at something like hyperconverged solutions, very much infrastructure focused. But now whenever we talk to customers, customers are more and more interested in what we can do for the application layer. What kind of benefits do we have for Exchange, for Oracle, for SAP, you name it? I think that's also a big change that's happening in the industry right now. One of the things from a technical perspective, and there may be others, but when VMWare really became prominent it was wonderful but we were reducing the number of physical resources, and the one workload that took a lot of physical resources was backup, and then sort of Veeam swept in and took advantage of that sea change. What's the technical constraint now when you think about things like multi cloud and SaaS and IoT, data's much more distributed, it's out of the control necessarily of a single platform. So from a technicals perspective, what's the big challenge and sort of the gate to architectures today? >> Well as you said, the distribution of data is the big challenge as it stands right now from a technical perspective. I think the biggest challenge that most of the players in this space, and not just Veeam, some other players as well, will have is trying to figure out how to control and manage their data. Other platforms are facing similar challenges. And no one really has solved this problem yet. We're starting to see some players in this space that have solutions that sit out in Azure, that sit out in Google Cloud, but it's a very challenging solution, and I think if you ask me, and this is something that I've said internally as well, the company that is capable of managing and owning the data is the company that's probably going to be most successful in the cloud war that's now happening. I think that's the most critical aspect. Workloads can move around, but data is very difficult to move around and own as well. >> Duncan one of the discontinuities we see in the marketplace that you mentioned earlier, wondering if you can talk to, in the enterprise in the data center, how do we get them to get to that next version? Comfortable with it, it's stable, it works. I look at the cloud, I'm running Microsoft Azure or AWS I'm running the version that they want. How do we help close that gap? Because from a security standpoint, from a features standpoint, we need to move there, but you know it seems to be just one of the greatest disconnects we see between kind of my data center and somebody else's cloud. >> That is a great question. I think we had a lot of challenges in the past. I think it's fair to say with vSphere 5.0 it was a great release, 5.5 among great releases. But the challenges that we have from an upgrade perspective was typically V centered and all of the components connected to it. It's not just the vSphere platform but if you look at the vSphere platform, the challenges that we had were all of the components integrating with it, whether that's something like vROps, VRA's, or VREalize Automation, but it could also be something like Evermar or maybe Veeam. So there were so many different components we had to take into account. So what we started doing within VMWare was simplifying the architecture from a vSPhere perspective. If you look at vSAN for instance, it used to be a solution where we had multiple functions spread out across different virtual machines. I'm now trying to bring that back into a single virtual machine again. Actually dumbing it down, making it easier to upgrade. So that is something that is actively happening within VMWare, and it is something that we started with 6.0, and that's also the reason why we see the adoption from 6.0 to 6.5 and 6.5 to 6.7, is at a must faster pace than 5, in the 5 code stream, so 5 to 5.1, for instance, took a lot longer for a lot of customers or 5.1 to 6.0, took extremely long for a lot of customers. It's the key reason is complexity from our infrastructure stand. While we're changing that, we're evolving that in the upcoming years. >> Duncan it's the last question here, but as the technologist, things that you're looking at that are exciting to you, that you know, get your juices flowing? >> Yeah, that's an interesting one because it's something that I've been thinking about recently. I've been doing vSphere for the last, well wasn't even called vSphere back then, but I've been doing this for the last 12 years, virtualization. Thirteen years maybe something like that. At least as a consultant and then as a technologist and technical marketing, but recently I'm starting to look more and more at the edge space. For computing, IoT, I think that's a really interesting space, especially because there isn't really significant market. Well, there is a significant market out there, but there isn't really one player out there that really stands out. No one has really figured out what customers would like to do with it and how our customers are going to use it. So the edge computing space and IoT's a really interesting thing and especially because of the distributed aspect is one of the things that I've been always been passionate about, vSphere clusters, which is a distributed mechanism. So distributed computing is definitely something that has my interest. >> All right if you care about virtualization, VMWare, follow the yellow brick road, yellow-bricks.com. Duncan, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me guys. >> You're welcome. All right, keep it right there buddy. We'll be back with our next guest. You're watching theCUBE live from Chicago, VeeamOn 2018. We'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from New Orleans, Louisiana. It's theCUBE, covering .NEXT conference 2018, brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back, we're here in New Orleans in the state of Louisiana, and to help Keith Townsend and myself, Stu Miniman, wrap up we're glad to have one more customer. We have the great state of Louisiana here with us, we have Michael Allison, who's the Chief Technology Officer. We also have Derek Williams, who's the Director of Data Center Operations. Gentleman, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for having us. >> All right, so I think we all know what the state of Louisiana is, hopefully most people can find it on a map, it's a nice easy shape to remember from my kids and the like. But, Michael, why don't we start with you? Talk to us first about kind of the purview of your group, your organization, and some of the kind of biggest challenges you've been facing in recent times. Sure, we are part of the Office of Technology Services, which is a consolidated IT organization for the state of Louisiana. We were organized about four years ago. Actually four years ago this July. And that brought in the 16 Federated IT groups into one large organization. And we have the purview of the executive branch, which includes those typical agencies like Children and Family Services, Motor Vehicles, Public Safety, Health and Hospitals, Labor, etc. >> And Derek, you've got the data center operations, so give us a little bit of a scope. We heard how many organizations in there, but what do you all have to get your arms around? >> Sure, so we had, you know, there's often a joke that we make that if they've ever made it we own one of each. So we had a little bit of every type of technology. So what we've really been getting our arms around is trying to standardize technologies, get a standard stack going, an enterprise level thing. And really what we're trying to do is become a service provider to those customers where we have standard lines of service and set enterprise level platforms that we migrate everybody onto. So do you actually have your own data centers? Your own hosting facilities? What's kind of the real estate look like? >> Absolutely, so we have, the state has two primary data centers that we utilize, and then we also use a number of cloud services as well as some third-party providers for offsite services. >> So obviously just like every other state in the union, you guys have plenty of money. >> Always. >> Way too many employees and just no challenges. Let's talk about what are the challenges? You know, coming together, bringing that many organizations together, there's challenges right off the bat. What are some of the challenges as you guys look to provide services to the great people of Louisiana? >> Well as Derek kind of eluded to, technology debt is deep. We have services that are aging at about 40 years old, that are our tier one services. And they were built in silos many, many years ago. So being able to do the application or actualization, being able to identify those services, then when we actually shift to the cultural side, actually bringing 16 different IT organizations into one, having all those individuals now work together instead of apart. And not in silos. That was probably one of the biggest challenges that we had over the last few years is really breaking down those cultural barriers and really coming together as one organization. >> Yeah I totally agree with that. The cultural aspect has been the biggest piece for us. Really getting in there and saying, you know a lot of small and medium size IT shops could get away without necessarily having the proper governance, structures in place, and a lot of people wore a lot of hats. So now we're about 800 strong in the Office of Technology Services, and that means people are very aligned to what they do operationally. And so that's been a big shift and kind of that cultural shift has really been where we've had to focus on to make that align properly to the business needs. >> Mike, what was the reason that led you down the path towards Nutanix? Maybe set us up with a little bit of the problem statement? We heard some of the heterogeneous nature and standardization which seems to fit into a theme we've heard lots of times with Nutanix. But was there a specific use case or what led you towards that path? Well, about four years ago the Department of Health and Hospitals really had a case where they needed to modernize their Medicaid services, eligibility and enrollment. CMS really challenged them to build an infrastructure that was in line with their MIDAS standards. There was modular, COTS, configuration over customization. Federal government no longer wants to build monolithic systems that don't integrate and are just big silos. So what we did was we gravitated to that project. We went to CMS and said, hey why don't we take what you're asking us to build and build it in a way that we can expand throughout the enterprise to not only affect the Department of Health but also Children of Family Services, and be able to expand it to Department of Corrections, etc. That was our use case, and having an anchor tenent with the Department of Health that has a partner with CMS really became the lynch pin in this journey. That was our first real big win. >> Okay how did you hear first about Nutanix? Was there a bake off you went through? >> It was, yes, very similar. It was the RP process took a year or so and we were actually going down the road of procuring some V blocks, and right before the Christmas vacations our Deputy CIO says hey, why don't you go look to see if there's other solutions that are out there? Challenge Derek, myself, and some others to really expand the horizons. Say, if we're going to kind of do this greenfield, what else is out there? And right before he got on his Christmas cruise he dropped that on our lap and about a month later we were going down the Dell Nutanix route. And to be honest it was very contentious, and it actually took a call from Michael Dell who I sent to voicemail twice before I realized who it was, but you know, those are the kind of decisions and the buy in from Dell executives that really allowed us to comfortably make this decision and move forward. >> So technology doesn't exactly move fast in any government because, you know, people process technology and especially in the government, people and process, as you guys have deployed Nutanix throughout your environment, what are some of the wins and what are some of the challenges? >> That's a funny point because we talk about this a lot. The fact that our choice was really between something like VBlock, which was an established player that had been for a long time, and something a little more bleeding edge. And part of the hesitancy to move to something like Nutanix was the idea that hey, we have a lot of restricted data, CJIS, HIPAA, all those kind of things across the board, RS1075 comes into play, and there was hesitancy to move to something new, but one of the things that we said exactly was we are not as agile as private sector. The procurement process, all the things that we have to do, put us a little further out. So it did come into play that when we look at that timeline the stuff that's bleeding edge now, by the time we have it out there in production it's probably going to be mainstream. So we had to hedge our bets a little. And you know, we really had to do our homework. Nutanix was, you know, kind of head and shoulders above a lot of what we looked at, and I had resiliency to it at first, so credit to the Deputy CIO, he made the right call, we came around on it, it's been awesome ever since you know, one of the driving things for us too was getting out there and really looking at the business case and talking to the customers. One of the huge things we kept hearing over and over was the HA aspect of it. You know, we need the high availability, we need the high availability. The other interesting thing that we have from the cost perspective is we are a cost recovery agency now that we're consolidated. So what you use you get charged for, you get a bill every month just like a commercial provider. You know, use this many servers, this much storage, you get that invoice for it. So we needed a way that we could have an environment that's scaled kind of at a linear cost that we could just kind of add these nodes to without having to go buy a new environment and have this huge kind of CAPX expenditure. And so at the end of the day it lived up to the hype and we went with Nutanix and we haven't regretted it, so. >> How are the vendors doing overall, helping you move to that really OP-X model, you said, love to hear what you're doing with cloud overall. Nutanix is talking about it. Dell's obviously talking about that. How are the vendors doing in general? And we'd love to hear specifically Dell Nutanix. >> We've had the luxury of having exceptionally good business partners. The example I'd like to give is, about four months into this project we realized that we were treated Nutanix as a traditional three-tier architecture. We were sending a lot of traffic more south. When we did the analysis we asked the question, a little cattywampus, it was how do we straighten this out? And so we posed a question on a Tuesday about how do we fix this, how do we drive the network back into the fabric? By Thursday we were on a phone call with VMWare. By the following Monday we had two engineers on site with a local partner with NSX Ninja. And we spent the next two months, with about different iterations of how to re-engineer the solution and really look at the full software-defined data center, not just software-defined storage and compute. It is really how do we then evolve this entire solution building upon Nutanix and then layering upon on top of that the VMWare solutions that kind of took us to that next level. >> Yeah and I think the key term in there is business partner. You know, it sounds a little corny to say, but we don't look at them as just vendors anymore. When we choose a technology or direction or an architecture, that is the direction we go for the entire state for that consolidated IT model. So, we don't just need a vendor. We need someone that has a vested interest in seeing us succeed with the technology, and that's what we've gotten out of Nutanix, out of Dell, and they've been willing to, you know, if there's an issue, they put the experts on site, it's not just we'll get some people on a call. They're going to be there next week, we're going to work with you guys and make it work. And it's been absolutely key in making this whole thing go. >> And as a CTO one of the challenges that we have is, as Derek has executed his cloud vision, is how do we take that and use it as an enabler, an accelerant to how we look at our service design, service architecture, how do we cloud optimize this? So as we're talking about CICD and all these little buzzwords that are out there, is how can we use this infrastructure to be that platform that kind of drives that from kind of a grass root, foundation up, whereas sometimes it's more of a pop down approach, we're taking somewhat of an opposite. And now we're in that position where we can now answer the question of now what, what do we do with it now? >> So sounds like you guys are a mixed VMWare, Nutanix hardware, I mean software, Dell hardware shop, foundation you've built the software-defined data center foundation, something that we've looked at for the past 10 years in IT to try and achieve, which is a precursor, or the foundation, to cloud. Nutanix has made a lot of cloud announcements. How does Nutanix's cloud announcements, your partnership with Dell match with what you guys plan when it comes to cloud? >> That's a perfect lead in for us. So you're absolutely right. We have had an active thought in our head that we need to move toward SDDC, software-defined data center is what we wanted to be at. Now that we've achieved it the next step for us is to say hey, whether it's an AWS or whomever, an Azure type thing, they are essentially an SDDC as well. How do we move workloads seamlessly up and down in a secure fashion? So the way we architected things in our SDDC, we have a lot of customers. We can't have lateral movement. So everything's microsegmentation across the board. What we've been pursuing is a way to move VM workloads essentially seamlessly up to the cloud and back down and have those microsegmentation rules follow whether it goes up or back down. That's kind of the zen state for us. It's been an interesting conference for us, because we've seen some competitors to that model. Some of the things Nutanix is rolling out, we're going to have to go back and take a very serious look at on that roadmap to see how it plays out. But, suddenly multicloud, if we can get to that state we don't care what cloud it's in. We don't have to learn separate stacks for different providers. That is a huge gap for us right now. We have highly available environment between two data centers where we run two setups active active that are load balanced. So the piece we're missing now is really an offsite DR that has that complete integration. So the idea that we could see a hurricane out in the golf, and 36, 48 hours away, and know that we might be having some issues. Being able to shift workloads up to the cloud, that's perfect for us. And you know, then cost comes into play. All that kind of stuff that we might have savings, economy of scale, all plays in perfectly for us. So we are super excited about where that's going and some of the technologies coming up are going to be things we're going to be evaluating very carefully over the next year. >> At the end of the day it's all about our constituents. We have to take data, turn it into information that they can consume at the pace that they want to. Whether it be traditional compute in a desktop or mobile or anywhere in between. It was our job to make sure that these services are available and usable when they need it, especially in the time of a disaster or just in day-to-day life. So that's the challenge that we have when delivering services to our citizens and constituents. >> All right, well Mike and Derek, really appreciate you sharing us the journey you've been on, how you're helping the citizens here in the great state of Louisiana. For Keith Townsend, I'm Stu Miniman. Thanks so much for watching our program. It's been a great two days here. Be sure to check out theCUBE.net for all of our programming. Thanks Nutanix and the whole crew here, and thank you for watching theCUBE. >> Thank you.

>> We're back with Trey Layton, who's the senior vice president and CTO of Converged at Dell EMC. Trey, it's always a pleasure, good to see you. >> Dave, good to see you as well. >> We're at eight years into Vblock. Take us back to the converged infrastructure early days. What problems were you trying to solve with CI? >> Well, one of the problems with IT in general is it's been hard, and one of the reasons why it's been hard is all the variability that customers consume, and how do you integrate all that variability in a sustaining manner to maintain the assets so it can support the business? The thing that we've learned is, the original recipe that we had for Vblock was to go at and solve that very problem. We have referred to that as lifecycle. Manage the lifecycle services of the data center assets that you're deploying. We have created some great intellectual property, some great innovation around helping minimize the complexity associated with managing the lifecycle of a very complex integration by way of one of the largest data center assets that people operate in their environments. >> So, yeah, thousands and thousands of customers. They're telling you lifecycle management is critical, but what are they doing? They're shifting their labor resource to more strategic activities? Is that what's going on? >> Well, there's so much variation and complexity in just maintaining the different integration points that they're spending an inordinate amount of their time, a lot of nights and weekends, on understanding and figuring out which software combinations, which configuration combinations that need to operate. What we do as an organization and have done since inception is, we manage that complexity for them. We deliver them an outcome-based architecture that is pre-integrated, and we sustain that integration over its life, so they spend less time doing that and letting the experts who actually build the components focus on maintaining those integrations. >> As an analyst, I always looked at converged infrastructure as an evolutionary trend, bringing together storage servers, networking, bespoke components. My question is, where's the innovation underneath converged infrastructure? >> I would say innovation is in two areas. We're blessed with a lot of technology innovations that come from our partner and our own companies, Dell EMC and Cisco. Cisco produces wonderful innovations in the space of networking compute in the context of Vblock. Dell EMC, storage innovations, data protection, et cetera. We harmonize all of these very complex integration in a manner where an organization can put those advanced integrations into solving business problems immediately. There's two vectors of innovation. There are the technology components that we're acquiring to solve business problems, and there's the method in which we integrate them to get to the business of solving problems. >> Okay, let's get into the announcement. What are you announcing, what's new, why should we care? >> The announcement is, we are announcing the VxBlock 1000. The interesting thing about Vblocks over the years is they have been individual systems architectures. A compute technology integrated with a particular storage architecture would produce a model of Vblock. With VxBlock 1000, we're actually introducing an architecture that provides a full gamut of array optionality for customers. Both blade and rack server options for customers on the UCS compute side, and before, we would integrate data protection technologies as an extension or an add-on into the architecture. Data protection is native to the offer. In addition to that, unstructured data storage. So, being able to include unstructured data into the architecture as one singular architecture, as opposed to buying individualized systems. >> Okay, so you're just further simplifying the underlying infrastructure, which is going to save me even more time, is that right? >> Producing a standard which can adapt to virtually any use case that a customer has in a data center environment, giving them the ability to expand and grow that architecture as their workload dictates in their environment, as opposed to buying a system to accommodate one workload, buying another system to accommodate another workload. This is breaking the barriers of traditional CI and moving it forward so that we can create an adaptive architecture that can accommodate not only the technologies available today, but the technologies on the horizon tomorrow. >> Okay, so it's workload diversity, which means greater asset leverage from that underlying infrastructure. >> Trey: Absolutely. >> Can you give us some examples? How do you envision customers using this? >> I would talk specifically about customers that we have today, and when they deploy, have deployed Vblocks in the past. We've done wonderful by building architectures that accommodate, or they're tailor-made for certain types of workloads. A customer environment would end up acquiring a Vblock model 700 to accommodate an SAP workload, for example. They would acquire a Vblock 300 or 500 to accommodate a VI workload. And then, as those workloads would grow, they would grow those individualized systems. What it did was, it created islands of stranded resource and capacity. Vblock 1000 is about bringing all those capabilities into a singular architecture where you can grow the resources based on pools. As your workload shifts in your environment, you can reallocate resources to accommodate the needs of that workload, as opposed to worrying about stranded capacity in the architecture. >> Where do you go from here with the architecture? Can you share with us, to the extent that you can, a little roadmap? Give us a vision as to how you see this playing out over the next several years. >> Well, one of the reasons why we did this was to simplify and make it easier to operate these very complex architectures that everyone's consuming around the world. Vblock has always been about simplifying complex technologies in the data center. There are a lot of innovations on the horizon. NVMe, for example. Next-generation compute platforms. There are new-generation fabric services that are merging. VxBlock 1000 is the place at which you will see all of these technologies introduce, and our customers won't have to wait on new models of Vblock to consume those technologies. They will be resident in them upon their availability to the market. >> The buzzword from the vendor community is "Futureproof," but you're saying you'll be able to, if you buy today, you'll be able to bring in things like NVMe and these new technologies down the road? >> The architecture inherently supports the idea of adapting to new technologies as they emerge, and will consume those integrations as a part of the architectural standard footprint for the life of the architecture. >> All right, excellent. Trey, thanks very much for that overview. Cisco, obviously, a huge partner of yours, with this whole initiative, many, many years. A lot of people have questioned where that goes, so we have a segment from Cisco Live. Stu Miniman's out there. Let's break to Stu, and then we'll come back and pick it up from there. Thanks for watching.

thanks Dave I'm Stu minimun and we're here at Cisco live 2018 in Barcelona Spain happy to be joined on the program by Nigel Moulton the AMIA CTO of Dell EMC and Siva Siva Kumar who is the senior director of data center solutions at Cisco gentlemen thanks so much for joining me thank you great so looking at you know a long partnership of Dell and Cisco Siva talk about the partnership first said absolutely I mean if you look back in time when we launched UCS the very first major partnership we brought and the converged infrastructure we brought at the market was we blocked it is it really set the trend for how customers should consume compute network and storage together and we continue to deliver world-class technologies on both sides and the partnership continues to thrive as we see tremendous adoption from our customers so we are here several years down still a very vibrant partnership in trying to get the best product for the customers yeah Nigel would love to get your perspective so I she was right I think I'd adds it defined a market if you think what true conversion infrastructure is it's different and we're going to discuss them all about that as we go through the UCS fabric is unique in the way that it ties a network fabric to a to compute fabric and when you bring those technologies together and converge them and you have a partnership like Cisco you have a partnership with us yeah it's gonna be a fantastic result for the market because the market moves on and I think Vblock the X block actually helped us achieve that all right so so Steve oh we understand there's billions of reasons why Cisco and Dell would want to keep this partnership going but talk about from an innovate innovation standpoint there's the new BX block 1000 what's new talk about what would what's the innovation here absolutely if you look at the VX block perspective the 1,000 perspective first of all it simplifies an extremely fast successful product to the next level it simplifies the the storage options and it provides a seamless way to consume those technologies from a Cisco perspective as you know we are in our fifth generation of UCS platform continues to be a world-class platform leading blade mark blade servers in the Indus but we also bring the innovation of rack mount servers as well as fatigue fabric larger-scale fibre channel technology as well as we bring our compute network as well as a SAN fabric technology together with world-class storage portfolio and then simplify that for a single pane of glass consumption model that's absolutely the highest level of innovation you're gonna fight Nigel I think back in the early days the joke was you can have a V block any way you want as long as it's black yeah it's obviously a lot of diversity product line but what's new and different here how is this impact new customers and existing custom so I think there's a couple of things to pick up on what Trey said what would shiver sets of a simplification piece the way in which we do release certification matrix the way in which you combine a single software image to manage these multiple discrete components that is greatly simplified in BX well in V Xbox one thousands secondly you remove a model number because historically you're right you bought a three series of five series of seven series and that sort of defined the architecture this is now a system-wide architecture so those technologies that you might have thought of as being discrete before or integrated at an RCM level that was perhaps a little complex for some people that's now dramatically simplified so those are the two things I think that we'd amplify one is a simplification and two you're moving a model number and moving to a system-wide architecture I want to give you both the opportunity give us a little bit you know what what's the future when you talk about the 1,000 system future innovations new use cases sure you know I think if you look at the very enterprise are consuming the demand for more powerful systems that will bring together more consolidation and also address the extensive data center migration opportunities we see is very critical that means the customers are really looking at whether it is a you know in-memory database that scales to much larger scale than before or in a large scale cluster databases or even newer workloads for that matter the appetite for a larger system and they need to have it in the market continues to grow we see a huge install base of our customers as well as new customers looking at options in the market truly realize the strength of the portfolio that each one of us bring to the table and bringing the Best of Breed whether it is today or in the future from our innovation standpoint is is absolutely the way that we are approaching building our partnership and building new solutions here Nigel I mean when you're talking to customers out there or they come in saying hey I'm gonna need this for a couple of months I mean if this is investment they're making for a couple years why is this a partnership built to last so an enterprise-class customer certainly is looking for a technology that's synonymous with reliability availability performance and if you look at what we x-block has traditionally done what the 1,000 offers you see that right but shippers write these application architectures are going to change so if you can make an investment in their technology set now that keeps the premise of reliability and available performance to you today but when you look at future application architectures around high-capacity memory adjacent to our high-performance CPU you're almost in a position where you are preparing the ground for what that application architecture will need and the investments that people make in the vx box system with the UCS power underneath it the computer is significant because it lays out a very clear path to how you will integrate future application architectures with existing application object Nigel Moulton Siva Siva Kumar thank you so much for joining talking about the partnership in the future so thank you pleasure sending it back to Dave in the u.s. st. thanks so much for watching the cube from Cisco live Barcelona thank you

>> Announcer: From the SiliconANGLE Media Office, in Boston, Massachusetts, it's The Cube. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hello everyone welcome to this special presentation, The Future of Converged Infrastructure, my name is David Vellante, and I'll be your host, for this event where the focus is on Dell EMC's converged infrastructure announcement. Nearly a decade ago, modern converged infrastructure really came to the floor in the marketplace, and what you had is compute, storage, and network brought together in a single managed entity. And when you talk to IT people, the impact was roughly a 30 to 50% total cost of ownership reduction, really depending on a number of factors. How much virtualization they had achieved, how complex their existing processees were, how much they could save on database and other software licenses and maintenance, but roughly that 30 to 50% range. Fast forward to 2018 and you're looking at a multibillion dollar market for converged infrastructure. Jeff Boudreau is here, he's the President of the Dell EMC Storage Division, Jeff thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for having me. >> You're welcome. So we're going to set up this announcement let me go through the agenda. Jeff and I are going to give an overview of the announcement and then we're going to go to Trey Layton, who's the Chief Technology Officer of the converged infrastructure group at Dell EMC. He's going to focus on the architecture, and some of the announcement details. And then, we're going to go to Cisco Live to a pre-recorded session that we did in Barcelona, and get the Cisco perspective, and then Jeff and I will come back to wrap it up. We also, you might notice we have a crowd chat going on, so underneath this video stream you can ask questions, you got to log in with LinkedIn, Twitter, or Facebook, I prefer Twitter, kind of an ask me anything crowd chat. We have analysts on, Stu Miniman is hosting that call. We're going to talk about what this announcement is all about, what the customer issues are that are being addressed by this announcement. So Jeff, let's get into it. From your perspective, what's the state of converged infrastructure today? >> Great question. I'm really bullish on CI, in regards to what converged infrastructure and kind of the way the market's going. We see continued interest in the growth of the market of our customers. Driven by the need for simplicity, agility, elasticity of those on-prem resources. Dell EMC pioneered the CI market several years ago, with the simple premise of simplify IT, and our focus and commitment to our customers has not changed of simplifying IT. As our customers continue to seek for new ways to simplify and consolidate infrastructure, we expect more and more of our customers to embrace CI, as a fast and easy way to modernize their infrastructure, and transform IT. >> You talk about transformation, we do a lot of events, and everybody's talking about digital transformation, and IT transformation, what role does converged infrastructure play in those types of transformations, maybe you could give us an example? >> Sure, so first I'd say our results speak for themselves. As I said we pioneered the CI industry, as the market leader, we enabled thousands of customers worldwide to drive business transformation and digital transformation. And when I speak to customers specifically, converged infrastructure is not just about the infrastructure, it's about the operating model, and how they simplify IT. I'd say two of the biggest areas of impact that customers highlight to me, are really about the acceleration of application delivery, and then the other big one is around the increase in operational efficiencies allowing customers to free up resources, to reinvest however they see fit. >> Now since the early days of converged infrastructure Cisco has been a big partner of yours, you guys were kind of quasi-exclusive for awhile, they went out and sought other partners, you went out and sought other partners, a lot of people have questions about that relationship, what's your perspective on that relationship. >> So our partnership with Cisco is strong as ever. We're proud of this category we've created together. We've been on this journey for a long time we've been working together, and that partnership will continue as we go forward. In full transparency there are of course some topics where we disagree, just like any normal relationship we have disagreements, an example of that would be HCI, but in the CI space our partnership is as strong as ever. We'll have thousands of customers between the two of us, that we will continue to invest and innovate together on. And I think later in this broadcast you're going to hear directly from Cisco on that, so we're both doubling down on the partnership, and we're both committed to CI. >> I want to ask you about leadership generally, and then specifically as it relates to converged infrastructure and hyper converged. My question is this, hyper converged is booming, it's a high growth market. I sometimes joke that Dell EMC is now your leader in the Gartner Magic Quadrants, 101 Gartner Magic Quadrants out of the 99. They're just leading everything and I think both the CI and the HCI categories, what's your take, is CI still relevant? >> First I'd say it's great to come from a leadership position so I thank you for bringing that up, I think it's really important. As Micheal talks about being the essential infrastructure company, that's huge for us as Dell Technologies, so we're really proud of that and we want to lean into that strength. Now on HCI vs CI, to me it's an AND world. Everybody wants to get stock that's in either or, to me it's about the AND story. All our customers are going on a journey, in regards to how they transform their businesses. But at the end of the day, if I took my macro view, and took a step back, it's about the data. The data's the critical asset. The good news for me and for our team is data always continues to grow, and is growing at an amazing rate. And as that critical asset, customers are really kind of thinking about a modern data strategy as they drive foreword. And as part of that, they're looking at how to store, protect, secure, analyze, move that data, really unleashing that data to provide value back to their businesses. So with all of that, not all data is going to be created equal, as part of that, as they build out those strategies, it's going to be a journey, in regards to how they do it. And if that's software defined, vs purpose built arrays, vs converged, or hyper converged, or even cloud, those deployment models, we, Dell EMC, and Dell Technologies want to be that strategic partner, that trusted advisor to help them on that journey. >> Alright Jeff, thanks for helping me with the setup. I want to ask you to hang around a little bit. >> Jeff: Sure. >> We're going to go to a video, and then we're going to bring back Trey Layton, talk about the architecture so keep it right there, we'll be right back. >> Announcer: Dell EMC has long been number one in converged infrastructure, providing technology that simplifies all aspects of IT, and enables you to achieve better business outcomes, faster, and we continue to lead through constant innovation. Introducing, the VxBlock System 1000, the next generation of converged infrastructure from Dell EMC. Featuring enhanced life cycle management, and a broad choice of technologies, to support a vast array of applications and resources. From general purpose to mission critical, big data to specialized workloads, VxBlock 1000 is the industry's first converged infrastructure system, with the flexible data services, power, and capacity to handle all data center workloads, giving you the ultimate in business agility, data center efficiency, and operational simplicity. Including best-of-breed storage and data protection from Dell EMC, and computer networking from Cisco. (orchestral music) Converged in one system, these technologies enable you to flexibly adapt resources to your evolving application's needs, pool resources to maximize utilization and increase ROI, deliver a turnkey system in lifecycle assurance experience, that frees you to focus on innovation. Four times storage types, two times compute types, and six times faster updates, and VME ready, and future proof for extreme performance. VxBlock 1000, the number one in converged now all-in-one system. Learn more about Dell EMC VxBlock 1000, at DellEMC.com/VxBlock. >> We're back with Trey Layton who's the Senior Vice President and CTO of converged at Dell EMC. Trey it's always a pleasure, good to see you. >> Dave, good to see you as well. >> So we're eight years into Vblock, take us back to the converged infrastructure early days, what problems were you trying to solve with CI. >> Well one of the problems with IT in general is it's been hard, and one of the reasons why it's been hard is all the variability that customers consume. And how do you integrate all that variability in a sustaining manner, to maintain the assets so it can support the business. And, the thing that we've learned is, the original recipe that we had for Vblock, was to go at and solve that very problem. We have referred to that as life cycle. Manage the life cycle services of the biggest inner assets that you're deploying. And we have created some great intellectual property, some great innovation around helping minimize the complexity associated with managing the life cycle of a very complex integration, by way of, one of the largest data center assets that people operate in their environment. >> So you got thousands and thousands of customers telling you life cycle management is critical. They're shifting their labor resource to more strategic activities, is that what's going on? Well there's so much variation and complexity in just maintaining the different integration points, that they're spending an inordinate amount of their time, a lot of nights and weekends, on understanding and figuring out which software combinations, which configuration combinations you need to operate. What we do as an organization, and have done since inception is, we manage that complexity for them. We delivery them an outcome based architecture that is pre-integrated, and we sustain that integration over it's life, so they spend less time doing that, and letting the experts who actually build the components focus on maintaining those integrations. >> So as an analyst I always looked at converged infrastructure as an evolutionary trend, bringing together storage, servers, networking, bespoke components. So my question is, where's the innovation underneath converged infrastructure. >> So I would say the innovation is in two areas. We're blessed with a lot of technology innovations that come from our partner, and our own companies, Dell EMC and Cisco. Cisco produces wonderful innovations in the space of networking compute, in the context of Vblock. Dell EMC, storage innovations, data protection, et cetera. We harmonize all of these very complex integrations in a manner where an organization can put those advanced integrations into solving business problems immediately. So there's two vectors of innovation. There are the technology components that we are acquiring, to solve business problems, and there's the method at which we integrate them, to get to the business of solving problems. >> Okay, let's get into the announcement. What are you announcing, what's new, why should we care. >> We are announcing the VxBlock 1000, and the interesting thing about Vblocks over the years, is they have been individual system architectures. So a compute technology, integrated with a particular storage architecture, would produce a model of Vblock. With VxBlock 1000, we're actually introducing an architecture that provides a full gamut of array optionality for customers. Both blade and rack server options, for customers on the UCS compute side, and before we would integrate data protection technologies as an extension or an add-on into the architecture, data protection is native to the offer. In addition to that, unstructured data storage. So being able to include unstructured data into the architecture as one singular architecture, as opposed to buying individualized systems. >> Okay, so you're just further simplifying the underlying infrastructure which is going to save me even more time? >> Producing a standard which can adapt to virtually any use case that a customer has in a data center environment. Giving them the ability to expand and grow that architecture, as their workload dictates, in their environment, as opposed to buying a system to accommodate one workload, buying another system to accommodate another workload, this is kind of breaking the barriers of traditional CI, and moving it foreword so that we can create an adaptive architecture, that can accommodate not only the technologies available today, but the technologies on the horizon tomorrow. >> Okay so it's workload diversity, which means greater asset leverage from that underlying infrastructure. >> Trey: Absolutely. >> Can you give us some examples, how do you envision customers using this? >> So I would talk specifically about customers that we have today. And when they deploy, or have deployed Vblocks in the past. We've done wonderful by building architectures that accommodate, or they're tailor made for certain types of workloads. And so a customer environment would end up acquiring a Vblock model 700, to accommodate an SAP workload for example. They would acquire a Vblock 300, or 500 to accommodate a VDI workload. And then as those workloads would grow, they would grow those individualized systems. What it did was, it created islands of stranded resource capacities. Vblock 1000 is about bringing all those capabilities into a singular architecture, where you can grow the resources based on pools. And so as your work load shifts in your environment, you can reallocate resources to accommodate the needs of that workload, as opposed to worrying about stranded capacity in the architecture. >> Okay where do you go from here with the architecture, can you share with us, to the extent that you can, a little roadmap, give us a vision as to how you see this playing out over the next several years. >> Well, one of the reasons why we did this was to simplify, and make it easier to operate, these very complex architectures that everyone's consuming around the world. Vblock has always been about simplifying complex technologies in the data center. There are a lot of innovations on the horizon in VME, for example, next generation compute platforms. There are new generation fabric services, that are emerging. VxBlock 1000 is the place at which you will see all of these technologies introduced, and our customers won't have to wait on new models of Vblock to consume those technologies, they will be resident in them upon their availability to the market. >> The buzz word from the vendor community is future proof, but your saying, you'll be able to, if you buy today, you'll be able to bring in things like NVME and these new technologies down the road. >> The architecture inherently supports the idea of adapting to new technologies as they emerge, and will consume those integrations, as a part of the architectural standard footprint, for the life of the architecture. >> Alright excellent Trey, thanks very much for that overview. Cisco obviously a huge partner of yours, with this whole initiative, many many years. A lot of people have questioned where that goes, so we have a segment from Cisco Live, Stu Miniman is out there, let's break to Stu, then we'll come back and pick it up from there. Thanks for watching. >> Thanks Dave, I'm Stu Miniman, and we're here at Cisco Live 2018 in Barcelona, Spain. Happy to be joined on the program by Nigel Moulton the EMEA CTO of Dell EMC, and Siva Sivakumar, who's the Senior Director of Data Center Solutions at Cisco, gentlemen, thanks so much for joining me. >> Thanks Stu. >> Looking at the long partnership of Dell and Cisco, Siva, talk about the partnership first. >> Absolutely. If you look back in time, when we launched UCS, the very first major partnership we brought, and the converged infrastructure we brought to the market was Vblock, it really set the trend for how customers should consume compute, network, and storage together. And we continue to deliver world class technologies on both sides and the partnership continues to thrive as we see tremendous adoption from our customers. So we are here, several years down, still a very vibrant partnership in trying to get the best product for the customers. >> Nigel would love to get your perspective. >> Siva's right I think I'd add, it defined a market, if you think what true conversion infrastructure is, it's different, and we're going to discuss some more about that as we go through. The UCS fabric is unique, in the way that it ties a network fabric to a compute fabric, and when you bring those technologies together, and converge them, and you have a partnership like Cisco, you have a partnership with us, yeah it's going to be a fantastic result for the market because the market moves on, and I think, VxBlock actually helped us achieve that. >> Alright so Siva we understand there's billions of reasons why Cisco and Dell would want to keep this partnership going, but talk about from an innovation standpoint, there's the new VxBlock 1000, what's new, talk about what's the innovation here. >> Absolutely. If you look at the VxBlock perspective, the 1000 perspective, first of all it simplifies an extremely fast successful product to the next level. It simplifies the storage options, and it provides a seamless way to consume those technologies. From a Cisco perspective, as you know we are in our fifth generation of UCS platform, continues to be a world class platform, leading blade service in the industry. But we also bring the innovation of rack mount servers, as well as 40 gig fabric, larger scale, fiber channel technology as well. As we bring our compute, network, as well as a sound fabric technology together, with world class storage portfolio, and then simplify that for a single pane of glass consumption model. That's absolutely the highest level of innovation you're going to find. >> Nigel, I think back in the early days the joke was you could have a Vblock anyway you want, as long as it's black. Obviously a lot of diversity in product line, but what's new and different here, how does this impact new customers and existing customers. >> I think there's a couple of things to pick up on, what Trey said, what Siva said. So the simplification piece, the way in which we do release certification matrix, the way in which you combine a single software image to manage these multiple discreet components, that is greatly simplified in VxBlock 1000. Secondly you remove a model number, because historically you're right, you bought a three series, a five series, and a seven series, and that sort of defined the architecture. This is now a system wide architecture. So those technologies that you might of thought of as being discreet before, or integrated at an RCM level that was perhaps a little complex for some people, that's now dramatically simplified. So those are two things that I think we amplify, one is the simplification and two, you're removing a model number and moving to a system wide architecture. >> Want to give you both the opportunity, gives us a little bit, what's the future when you talk about the 1000 system, future innovations, new use cases. >> Sure, I think if you look at the way enterprise are consuming, the demand for more powerful systems that'll bring together more consolidation, and also address the extensive data center migration opportunities we see, is very critical, that means the customers are really looking at whether it is a in-memory database that scales to, much larger scale than before, or large scale cluster databases, or even newer workloads for that matter, the appetite for a larger system, and the need to have it in the market, continues to grow. We see a huge install base of our customers, as well as new customers looking at options in the market, truly realize, the strength of the portfolio that each one of us brings to the table, and bringing the best-of-breed, whether it is today, or in the future from an innovation standpoint, this is absolutely the way that we are approaching building our partnership and building new solutions here. >> Nigel, when you're talking to customers out there, are they coming saying, I'm going to need this for a couple of months, I mean this is an investment they're making for a couple years, why is this a partnership built to last. >> An enterprise class customer certainly is looking for a technology that's synonymous with reliability, availability, performance. And if you look at what VxBlock has traditionally done and what the 1000 offers, you see that. But Siva's right, these application architectures are going to change. So if you can make an investment in a technology set now that keeps the premise of reliability, availability, and performance to you today, but when you look at future application architectures around high capacity memory, adjacent to a high performance CPU, you're almost in a position where you are preparing the ground for what that application architecture will need, and the investments that people make in the VxBlock system with the UCS power underneath at the compute layer, it's significant, because it lays out a very clear path to how you will integrate future application architectures with existing application architectures. >> Nigel Moulton, Siva Sivakumar, thank you so much for joining, talking about the partnership and the future. >> Siva: Thank you. >> Nigel: Pleasure. >> Sending back to Dave in the US, thanks so much for watching The Cube from Cisco Live Barcelona. >> Thank you. >> Okay thanks Stu, we're back here with Jeff Boudreau. We talked a little bit earlier about the history of conversion infrastructure, some of the impacts that we've seen in IT transformations, Trey took us through the architecture with some of the announcement details, and of course we heard from Cisco, was a lot of fun in Barcelona. Jeff bring it home, what are the take aways. >> Some of the key take aways I have is just I want to make sure everybody knows Dell EMC's continued commitment to modernizing infrastructure for conversion infrastructure. In addition to that was have a strong partnership with Cisco as you heard from me and you also heard from Cisco, that we both continue to invest and innovate in these spaces. In addition to that we're going to continue our leadership in CI, this is critical, and it's extremely important to Dell, and EMC, and Dell EMC's Cisco relationship. And then lastly, that we're going to continue to deliver on our customer promise to simplify IT. >> Okay great, thank you very much for participating here. >> I appreciate it. >> Now we're going to go into the crowd chat, again, it's an ask me anything. What make Dell EMC so special, what about security, how are the organizations affected by converged infrastructure, there's still a lot of, roll your own going on. There's a price to pay for all this integration, how is that price justified, can you offset that with TCO. So let's get into that, what are the other business impacts, go auth in with Twitter, LinkedIn, or Facebook, Twitter is my preferred. Let's get into it thanks for watching everybody, we'll see you in the crowd chat. >> I want IT to be dial tone service, where it's always available for our providers to access. To me, that is why IT exists. So our strategy at the hardware and software level is to ruthlessly standardize leverage in a converged platform technology. We want to create IT almost like a vending machine, where a user steps up to our vending machine, they select the product they want, they put in their cost center, and within seconds that product is delivered to that end user. And we really need to start running IT like a business. Currently we have a VxBlock that we will run our University of Vermont Medical Center epic install on. Having good performance while the provider is within that epic system is key to our foundation of IT. Having the ability to combine the compute, network, and storage in one aspect in one upgrade, where each component is aligned and regression tested from a Dell Technology perspective, really makes it easy as an IT individual to do an upgrade once or twice a year versus continually trying to keep each component of that infrastructure footprint upgraded and aligned. I was very impressed with the VxBlock 1000 from Dell Technologies, specifically a few aspects of it that really intrigued me. With the VxBlock 1000, we now have the ability to mix and match technologies within that frame. We love the way the RCM process works, from a converged perspective, the ability to bring the compute, the storage, and network together, and trust that Dell Technologies is going to upgrade all those components in a seamless manner, really makes it easier from an IT professional to continue to focus on what's really important to our organization, provider and patient outcomes.

>> Narrator: Live from Barcelona, Spain. It's theCUBE! Covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, Veeam and theCUBE ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to day two of live coverage with theCUBE here at Cisco live 2018 in Europe. We're in Barcelona, Spain. I'm John, for the co-founder of Silicon Angle. Co-host of the theCUBE, with Stu Miniman, analyst on wikibon,com. As well as Cube co-host many events certainly Stu is not a stranger to Cisco. Open-sourced. And overall, the discretion that digital is having on the enterprise. Our next guest is Michael Kay, global technologist of product strategy of theme software. Michael it's great to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Hey John, hey Stu. >> So, you guys are here with Cisco Veeam, you guys have been a big success story we've coverd on theCUBE many times. You're up Cisco. What's the vibe here, what's going on in the show? >> So back in mid 2017, October 2017, we announced we were going to be on the global price list, and so obviously that this is different from last year in that we're having more conversations, people know what we're doing. For starters, asking how do we protect the network? How do we protect the ASA? Using the firewall and etc. It's very good to have those conversations with the enterprise guys. And they now understand we're able to protect their workload, their data. So, I imagine that it will be exactly the same when we go over to Cisco Live in the US, but this is obviously the first show that we've had where we are talking about availability with Cisco as a joint partner on their global price list. >> One of things that we always see is that with you guys, your logo is everywhere. You've got the big green Veeam. What's the relationship that you guys have with customers? Because you're playing a lot of great spaces. I mean, what's the main relationship in brand promise that Veeam has? >> So I guess from our point of view is that we come from SMB root, if you'd like. But over the years, over that last 10 years, we've developed that scalable product that allows us to protect the larger workload within the enterprise. We also have cloud offerings to enable our service provider partners. So, exactly that, we want to be able to play and protect data in whatever facet that needs to be. So, whether it be cloud, whether it be on-premises, SMB, commercial, enterprise, we want to be able to protect all of those workloads. >> So Michael, one of the things we've been talking about here at the show, you won't just go look at world's agents. It's a big ecosystem and it's been changing. Cisco has got a lot of pieces of big movement software that's happening to cloud and data center. They have dozens of storage relationships and that's where Veeam ties in a lot. Maybe gives a little bit of an overview, kind of the breath and depth of the relationship where you play in relation to UCS, Converged, Hyper Converged, all those pieces. >> Yeah so I guess Converged first. If we look at the majority of the data centers and the customers that we speak to there is still very much, there is a large footprint of Converged infrastructure where that be FlexPod, VersaStack, Pure FlashStack, or Vblock from a DeliMC point of view. And the good thing where we come in is that we have storage integrated in all of them. So, regardless of like, compute, however it brings a nice simplicity model to the customer from that stack. But for us to just slot into that and be able to leverage the storage integrations and to be able to take an efficient snapshot of those virtual machines and push them onto a, maybe Cisco 2600, that modular, scalable server that will both compute and high density storage really gives us a best of both worlds in terms of plugging it into that fabric interconnector. Making is converge backup story or converge available story. >> Yeah so, you mentioned a lot of options out there. Still, most customers, there are more customers that aren't doing some flavor of Converged drive or Converged than are - there is a lot of buzz behind the Hyper Converged piece of it. What are you hearing from customers? You know, you've said there's a lot of kind of CI versus HI that numbers show that out. I mean, there's a lot more solutions out there. It should be in the market a lot longer. But you know, where are the customers? What are some of the decision points and how has your organization held on them? >> So I guess where we are seeing things that are HyperFlex, where we also have storage integration there from a protection point of view. Seeing many of them feed into that main data center. So, we're protecting the data, we're using our replication engine to push data into that larger data center for hot DR or high ability type solution. And I think that's where we're seeing it. But we are also seeing it more HyperFlex or more HCI come into that main data center for some certain verticals from that point of view. >> Okay, so if I could just unpack what you're saying there, you know, mostly HCIs have been kind of the robust, smaller environments where you know, traditional three tier or CI has been there but we're starting to see that. That blurring of the lines between what is there. >> Yeah, people are definitely bringing that HCI, that simplicity, that scalable simplicity model into their main data center as it kind of merges with that converged offering right? So. >> Yeah, the other thing that's very clear, the Veeam show last year when we covered it really customers trying to bake out their cloud strategy. You know, how does that tie into all this discussion here? Cisco is talking a lot about multicloud, that's really the management plain, how do you see that from an availability solution? >> Yeah, okay, so yesterday I sat in the Keynote and reading some of the stuff, we had our sales kick off last week and some of our stuff really resonates with our message as well that's out there. So the whole multicloud, our tagline is around any app, any data, any cloud. So it kind of resonates with what Cisco is saying. And that's obviously a good thing. But, so whether that be the public cloud, whether it's to enable our service providers to leverage the Cisco technology plus Veeam to offer a service out to our existing Veeam customers. The On-Premise's solution. Or whether that'd just be on-premises they sense that we just talked about whether Converged or whether HCI top plate. >> What the big thing you guys learned at your sale's kick-off because we always wonder what goes on in these sale's kick-off. People like cheering, their making their quota, business is good, but they listen to customers. What's the big used cases that you guys are really doing well with Cisco on? I mean that's ultimately the pattern that has kind of emerged. There is always a best product. What's the hot, used case for you guys? >> So I think one of our biggest things is about how do we partner with the likes of Cisco. How do we leverage that relationship to bring more Cisco validated designs, reference architectures, from a technical point of view up. So when the good door, the numbers being rah-rah as you're in the sale's kick-off but ultimately it's about the vision. How do we go forward with that partnership? Being on that price list is really going to help us get into some of those accounts, from that point of view. But also, we've got, from a technical point of view, I know that we've got the design, we've got the model behind this. >> Yeah, when did you guys get onto the price list? Recently? >> Uh, I believe it was October. >> So just recently? >> So really recently. >> Some deals are just going to be flying in. Right? (laughs) >> Hopefully, right. >> What's the biggest challenge that you find with Veeam's customers? Because you guys have certainly done really well. Again, we've covered your success on theCUBE many times with other events, like Vmworld and others. What's the ah ha moment for the customers with Veeam? Is it just the easiest solution? Is it a technical paid point they saw? What's that moment when the customer really gets it? >> So, I think the simplicity, that easy-to-use, easy to deploy, regardless whether you're three, six tier host shop or whether you're a multi 10,000 VM type enterprise estate. It's being able to use that same tool-set to protect all the way through. That's really simple. We really want to keep that user interface really easy to consume, and use, and scale. So that's one of the key areas that I've seen that we're playing in. >> Alright, so it's 2018 now, we've got a looming, headwind that a lot of customers we are concerned about, haven't heard a lot about it at this show, but GDPR, that's definitely something on everybody's mind. Is this another Y2K that's going to slow down ID bind or are there engagements? How does Veeam work with customers? What's it going to do with the landscape of IT this year? >> So we were, we've been looking at GDBR Compliance and our messaging in those has been, we've been really working on how we start mentioning this and marketing this out from a Veeam perspective. So we're not going to keep, we're not going to get anyone GDBR compline. But what we are going to do is help you understand where that data is, how long has it been kept for, where is it kept, where it's stored, et cetera. So update three that we've released just before Christmas it was around location tag in. So if that back-up comes into a certain GO then we want to be able to tag that, and that tag stays with that back-up data wherever it goes. Then we've got Veeam ONE, the monitors and reports against that. So you know whether you've violated GBDR compliance or a violation of where that data should have be located. But it's one of the things that it's not a day that kind of goes back the moment where I'm not speaking to someone about GDPR. And obviously, it's really, it's coming around very fast. May this year, is when it comes into force. >> Are people shaking in their boots? I mean, I'm hearing, like, a lot of people really nervous. I mean it's kind not has been played up. Certainly the press has been covering it but I mean the Y2K problem, you remember those glory days, you know, the millennial, you know that bug never really happened. But GDPR is a freaking, hard-core enforcement. And the penalties are stiff. >> Yeah. >> I mean it's ridiculous. >> That's a big percentage of your gross income. Right, the people that I speak to are definitely aware and concerned that they need to be in this particular state by the time we get to May. It's not about waiting until that date in May. It's about how do we do it now and start understanding it a bit more about our data. Cisco yesterday, on the main stage said, "it's all about data." And absolutely resonates exactly with what we want to do. We want to be able to do more with that but also we need to understand what that data is and how long do we keep them for. Or why we're keeping it? And ask those questions to these new data protection officers, data-- >> Well people are having more data driven strategies and we were commenting yesterday. We didn't kind of, we didn't hear much here about that Cisco not using that data driven. Is it just not a real big data show or not a lot of AI here yet but if you got data driven, you better have data protection, right? I mean, you can't have both. >> They kind of go hand-in-hand, right? And I think that's another thing where we're coming into the fold. Is that we've got features in our tool-set that allows us to spin up that data, in an isolated network. We had to run test against them. Run compliance checks against them. To make sure that, one, the back-up comes up. So, when you're not waiting until that problem hits. So you can bring it up but also test against updates, et cetera. >> Alright, so here is a question for you. So I'm a customer, pretend I'm a customer. Okay, "Well you know, I really am on-premises, on-prem." Stu, depend on how you want to argue that point. Well Stu and I argued about it yesterday about on-prem versus on-Premises. I'm on-premises, I'm getting my cloud operation. I've got my data protection. But I really got to get into the cloud. I've got some stuff in the cloud now. Cloud is my mision. I'm going to be moving to the cloud in a very big way. How does Veeam help me? >> So, we want to bring the technology that you've been using on-premises, hopefully, maybe Veeam, and we want to take that same, easy-to-use concept, that same UI that you've using and really, hopefully you've seen it as a simplistic approach to your data. We're taking the headache out of the data protection story. But if you are pushing into those public clouds, being able to give you a seamless way-- >> So same dashboard, same-- >> Similar tool-sets, exactly that. And being able to protect that. >> Across multiple clouds as well? Because multicloud is hot. >> Yeah, exactly, we want to be able to be like we are within virtualization. Being able to protect any workload on VMWare, Hyper-V, et cetera. We also want to be able to protect any of those public clouds. From using the same tool-set to be able to protect that same file format that we're backing up to, same fundamentals that we have. >> I want to get your view on Cisco Live here. You're in on Keynote, you go to number shows, you know, this show used to be, it was hard-core networking, it was all networking. CCIEs and everything. We're sitting here in the DevNet zone. They've got developers, got good storage ecosytsems here. How do you look at the audience here compared to say, a VM world or some of the other partner activities that you go to? >> So I think like couple of years ago, they were kind of saying that you need to broaden your knowledge as an IT consultant, IT person, within a company. You have to expand your technologies. You can't just be the networking guy. You can't just be the storage guy. And I think that we're, I don't know if you guys see it, but definitely seeing more broaden people like, again, like I said there, the people that I'm having conversations with at the booth, they're all aware of what we do now. So, they have clearly broaden their knowledge away from that networking. But, also with the likes of the DevNet. So like being able to code, and all of the API driven type stories that we hear. It's also being able to leverage that and push that into whatever that data center needs to be from an automation orchestration point of view. So, and everyone plays a part in that. Whether it's the storage, whether it's the availability, whether it's the compute vendors, whether it's the virtualization. Everyone has a part to play in that, that automation orchestration piece. >> Awesome. Well how has your experience with the show has been as a European flavor year, what's your take away? >> Um, I guess-- >> John: Customer action, good partners? >> Yeah, I mean, I'm speaking to your Cisco reps. Kind of seeing it from a Veeam point of view in your region. Understand a bit more about around GDBR. GDBR is coming in. So there is no way of getting around that. Understand what tools can actually help you be more compliant. Also, look at, I've spoken to a number of people around that conversion, HCI piece, and they weren't aware around the integration. So, go away and see if we do fit in that integration piece. Existing customers go away and find out that information, and yeah. >> So what's the difference between an North American customer and an European customer? Do they have little nuances? Do they have regional issues by sovereignty in countries? Is there a buyer behavior from a Veeam customer standpoint? Difference between a customer in North America versus Europe? >> So, I'm mostly over in Europe but the customers that we speak to over in the US, that's the most concerning part around that GDBR piece, there is still, I have that understanding of what GDBR is doing. If they are holding data. Especially these larger enterprises. They are going to be holding data for those European countries. So they need to be compliant that way. And that's the misunderstanding maybe from some of the people. >> So European are more savvier on the compliance side? >> From the people that I have spoken to they know that it affects them because they're in country and holding that data. However, it affects everyone. It's a global compliance if you're holding data from anyone. >> I think in North America they kicked the can down the road. Oh wow, GDBR's upon Europe. Alright, Europeans are very savvy on compliance. That's a huge issue, data drive, data protection. We're here inside theCUBE with Veeam software. I'm John Furrier and Stu Mimiman live from Barcelona for Cisco Live 2018 in Europe. More coverage after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's the Cube, covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, Veeam, and the Cube's ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome back to the Cube's exclusive coverage of Cisco Live 2018 in Europe. Kicking off 2018 here in Europe is Cisco's annual event. I'm John Furrier, the cohost of the Cube, with Stu Miniman, analyst at Wikibon. Our next guest is Todd Brannon, who's the marketing director at Cisco, welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you. >> Great, thanks for coming on. >> Absolutely. >> You guys announced HyperFlex before the show. >> We did. >> And a lot of cloud happening here in the keynote. Seeing IOT, well security number one obviously. Security, that's always going to be number one, but the other themes are obviously IOT and multi-cloud. >> Todd: Multi-cloud. >> Huge conversations, both developing rapidly in kind of it's own way. >> Well that's crucial for us 'cause we talk about HyperFlex 3.0, a lot of cool features that we're building into that, but the scope for us is much, much broader because of the multi-cloud piece. That's reality for our customers. They've told us very, very clearly, I'm going to use multiple public clouds, but I'm also going to have to get my on-prem side of it. So we tell 'em, absolutely, good multi-cloud starts at home with platforms like, with HyperFlex, and that's exactly the way we've brought it together. So we talk about a kind of a very modest aspiration with this is we want to help customers power any application, on any cloud, on any scale. >> Well take a minute before we get started, help us with some questions. What is HyperFlex 3.0 for the folks watching? What is it? >> So we introduced HyperFlex as our hyper converged platform built on UCS. We acquired a company called Springpath. They brought in a purpose-built, log-structured file system for the cluster and we combined these things together to create HyperFlex. So it's really unique in the sense that, well let me back up, I'd say a lot people ignore how crucial a file system and a network are to a clustered system. It kind of goes without saying, but a lot of the focus has been on, okay what's the individual node in that stack look like, but we look at it much more at the cluster level. And so, our uniqueness is that we've engineered all of this thing together. So we brought that out in 2016, last year really we focused on performance, 40 gig, all-flash, open up the network pipes and then this year is really about our multi-cloud integration and then additional features that we're bringing in to support more workloads, Hyper-V support, containers. So 3.0 is really just filling in a lot of features that we need to really make this a ideal platform for multi-cloud. >> Todd, we've tracked UCS since the early days. UCS really created and led the whole converged infrastructure ten. >> When we heard about CI though, it's really about simplification. It's infrastructure, it's that next step. Hyper converged, a lot of the things you were talking about there, it's about cloud and the underlying platform, and while CI can be used for that, seems like a different discussion. Can you give us a little bit compare/contrast as to what you see? >> Absolutely. Well, I mean, the conversion infrastructures, you know, we started that way back in the day with Vblock and VCE, and then FlexPod, VersaStack, FlashStack, there's lots of different storage partnerships that we have we can bring customers. And private cloud has been a big workload for those infrastructure components. You know, it's really just a storage question of how you want to address that component, but it all revolves around the operating model. So our mission is, look, we've got a huge install basic customers are used to acquiring and deploying pre-engineered chunks of infrastructure like a Vxblock or a FlexPod, what have you, we need to continue to serve them, while they also evaluate where hyper convergence might fit in the equation as well, and how do we offer those both up with a common set of policy and management, with UCS management, with Intersight. So we think that these are going to coexist for quite some time and customers are going to have to decide how they want to use those different types of infrastructure, but ultimately, it's just about the workload. >> Cisco and it's storage partners have billions of reasons why they're going to keep selling CI's for a while. >> Certainly, yep. >> Help connect the dots though. You talked about that operating model in the keynote this morning, big focus on multi-cloud, >> Todd: Certainly. >> And things like, we talked to AppD at AWS re:Invent, how does the public cloud mesh with these other solutions. >> So, one of the things that we're announcing here at the show is the cloud, our Cisco container platform. That's an example of how we're going to work with Google to create an integrated stack, focused initially around Kubernetes, and we have HyperFlex as an infrastructure component under that, and that's, for people that are really accelerating their application development or maybe they're modernizing older workloads with containers, we're going to provide that element. But the true multi-cloud functionality is what we do with things like CloudCenter. So that was our CliQr acquisition, allows us to profile workloads, take 'em out to the cloud, multiple public clouds. So for us, when we talk about HyperFlex as a platform for multi-cloud it's those integrations with CloudCenter, but then also AppD, which is hugely important because like we were talking about earlier, you've got applications now that are distributed across on-prem and multiple public clouds potentially. So maybe you got a front end out in the public cloud, customer data or business logic on-prem, how do you keep track of the performance of that collection of functions and systems that are running independently and you have to do that with something like AppD. So we have a lot of the software components to help customers really get their multi-cloud going. >> So bringing it back to HyperFlex, my understanding, not just virtual environment anymore, you're also doing containers and that tied into that multi-cloud piece. >> So, a couple important things with this 3.0 release. We're bringing for Hyper-V, for customers who want to do different hypervisors, and then we developed a persistent storage plug-in into the file system for those stateful workloads that are going to be in containers. So again, with Kubernetes, as developers want to go out and do pod requests, basically self-service volumes on the HyperFlex storage environment, that's huge. And so we've opened it up to two more classes of workloads right there. >> I mean, what aren't you doing? Got these centralized apps. Is there going to be a Cisco coin in the future? (laughs) >> I think -- >> There's a rumor going around. >> So yeah, I can't speak to our cryptocurrency strategy. That's out of my domain. >> Probably coming, these centralized apps, again, on the horizon, another future thing you guys are positioned for. In all seriousness though, I want to put a plug in for Stu's Wikibon team. They came out with a true private cloud report recently last year, really kind of the only ones looking at it this way, but it really is interesting. I want to get your comment to this because we go to 100 of events a year, last year was over 100, I think, 30, and what we've observed is the same thing that's happening here. DevNet's got a lot of attraction. You've got DevNet Create, more of an open-source, cloud native focus. >> Todd: Sure. >> You're seeing the enterprises getting their act done at home, inside the premise. >> Todd: That's right. >> So it's not so much they're moving to cloud. Yeah, some stuff's going in the cloud, but they're kind of cleaning up the house first, going cloud ops on premise. >> That's right. >> And then, as a preparation to all the spend and all the intention is really on the private cloud, what they call true private cloud. Do you see the same thing? >> Absolutely. >> And is that a stepping stone to the cloud? >> Absolutely, and that's exactly, that's informed everything we've done here in this latest, this past year really, of development around HyperFlex is our IT customers telling us, look I've got the developer as my new constituent. As much as I need to maintain shrink wrapped apps or legacy workloads for the core business, the developer is really my customer now and I have to provide infrastructure on-prem that behaves like the cloud in terms of infrastructure as code and being able to do things like we're doing with this Kubernetes environment, where the developers can withdraw the resources they need, turn 'em back in and the IT team can get out of the way. That's hugely important. >> I think we're observing on our opening this morning when we were commenting on the keynote and some of the trends here is that Cisco is moving up the stack pretty rapidly over the years, this year more than ever, you can start to see a clear line of sight that it's not just network plumbing, although that's pretty critical. But with Kubernetes and the growth, you mentioned Google, it's pretty interesting, a renaissance is going on in the software world, certainly with open-source, you have app developers, which are like just classic building software apps, then you got engineering, software engineering. So I use that that term software engineering as a throwback to the age when I graduated with my CS degree, that was what you called yourself when you got a job. You were a software engineer. You have network engineers, so you're seeing a line of under the hood engineering with software and networks and whatnot. And then, above Kubernetes you're seeing, just hey I just want a program, just give me some functions. >> Absolutely, and it's the IT generalist that are emerging as the heroes here that have to understand, okay, how do I build that on-prem platform, how do I have the capability to get my developers out to the public cloud, as in when they need to and it makes sense, or potentially bring things back. And you're right, and then on the development side they don't want to have to worry about the mechanics of that. So to the degree we can enable our IT customer to provide that service, but also simplify that for them is essential. >> Talk about your posture to those two different personas because you guys just provide the network in the old days and app developers programmed on them. They get some storage or perusing some storage. Now you got to lean in towards the network engineers, which are now software engineers under the hood, and then you got to lean in to the app developers and enable them to be successful. How are you attacking those, not attacking, how are you servicing and leaning into those groups. >> We brought the storage and computing experts into the fold with UCS, nine years ago, but now when you look at our acquisition of AppD, that's where we really start to take care of the application owner, be it the developer or the business owner for the application and allowing them to kind of see across on-prem, out in the public cloud, how do I ensure that I'm going to stay out of trouble, and if something goes wrong I know exactly where in that constellation of services the problem resides. So AppD is critical in that sense because -- >> So they fill a big hole. >> Absolutely, because that's how we can, all this comes together to power our workload, power business service. Applications are the heart of new business. >> Todd, what about from a training perspective? Cisco Live's always been a show where people get their certifications, they build their careers on this stuff. It's changing so fast. How are you keeping, the training tracks, and giving that career help to all the people that do this for a living. >> We're adding the pillars for all the things we're talking about, the multi-cloud software portfolio, new infrastructure components, like HyperFlex. Those are all being built into our training regimen and also our training partners, so they can take that out and scale it for us. >> All right, so you went and just connected the dots on what I was finishing up for network engineers, software engineers, under the hood, app developers, AppD, you guys have a good solid footing there, good approach. Multi-cloud, is that the Kubernetes? Is that the secret sauce to multi-cloud in your opinion? And/or how do you guys look at multi-cloud and how do you talk to your customers about it? >> Well we talk about, the data is pretty clear, customers want to be able to use multiple public clouds and they want to be able to evaluate them. So I think the center of our strategy, we have our multi-cloud portfolio, how we organize all these things. The cloud consume pillar of that is really comprised of AppD, which we talked about, but also CloudCenter. And so CloudCenter is a tool that allows our customers basically profile an application and then go understand what's it going to cost me and what are the different attributes of these public cloud services, and which one matches up the best. So I'd say that's the center of the strategy. Obviously, particularly around containers, but more workloads in the future, Kubernetes becomes a much bigger -- >> So orchestration is pretty key. >> Yeah, orchestration's essential and it's not just in a pure software context, but how do we hook down into infrastructure. So we've already built this programmable infrastructure, so how do we expose those knobs and dials to orchestration engines so that we're not just virtualizing, but we're actually optimizing the infrastructure they need. >> That's the beautiful thing about service and function-based software. Okay, so now I've heard about this dCloud. What is dCloud? >> So dCloud's basically a demo environment that our engineering team can use and our partners can use to demo software. So, for example, we launched our cloud management platform for UCS and HyperFlex last fall, we call it Intersight. So software like that, you know software becomes central to our strategy, dCloud becomes the way that we show that. >> Customers can come in and play on that and partners? >> Partners and our sales teams can take customers through it. >> But not customers. >> I don't believe there's an end user entrance to that yet. >> So it's like a sandbox for the cloud. >> But I could be wrong. I'm not a dCloub expert. >> So for the folks watching, what's different this year at Cisco Live in Europe from other shows? Is there anything that stands out to you around this year? >> Definitely the multi-cloud theme and we're hearing that from customers. They don't, there's always been the question of what type of infrastructure should I provision for different workloads, but it's really moved that past that to here's the workload spectrum I need to support. What are the tools you're going to give me for that on-prem? How can you help me get to the cloud? And I think the other thing, more narrowly speaking, hyper convergence is really turning the corner in terms of adoption. So when we first, we weren't the first ones to arrive at the hyper convergence party in the industry by any means, but we brought the keg. So when we showed up the party kind of got started. We think we brought the complete answer and now we're seeing as more and more workloads can go onto a HCI platform, the adoption's starting to, and we're seeing large organizations bring it on, both in the core and out at the edge. So those are a couple big changes -- >> Todd, any bold predictions? Will Cisco be number three in HCI by the end of 2018? >> Todd: Yes, 'cause we already are. >> Okay. (laughs) >> We already are. So, today it's a three horse race right now. So it's Dell, Nutanix, Cisco in the latest IDC numbers. So I think by the end, I'd like to see number two within a type of a timeframe. I'll give you number two within six quarters, how about that? >> And Stu wants to know what are you going to do with all that cash that you bring over from, to the US? (laughs) >> John: What are you going to buy? >> Your patriotion, yeah. >> I heard Chuck talking about investing in employees so I hope to get some of that, or no. No guys, I think Chuck's already kind of laid it out. We got our investors, we've got potential things we can do, bringing in new technology, so he's really laid that out. >> Todd, final question for you at the end of the segment. >> Sure. >> As the personnel change, excitedly, the infrastructure of the cloud and the evolution of the renaissance that's coming with software, DevNet, DevNet Create, doing some great stuff as an indicator of what's coming, >> Sure. >> How is the roll of the network, your target customer, who's been loyal Cisco net MVP all these years and you got storage guys, interdisciplinary has been a big thing, what skill sets do you see evolving for that Cisco hero out there? What the trend that you can talk to? >> It's the ability to automate. It's the ability to take advantage of some of the technologies we're bringing in terms of assurance. It's how do you bring all of that insight that resides in the network, in the telemetry and that data, how do you bring that out and use it in a way that can help the business. I think for our core audience, for those folks you talk about, it's how do I become much more adept at bringing these pieces together in an automated way, but then how do take advantage of some of the things that are available to me now in terms of bringing the power of analytics, AI, into an IT context and take advantage of those things for all the different things you can imagine, security, assurance, et cetera. >> So the big thing then, just to summarize, if I hear you correctly, the difference this year is that you got AppD, and you got end to end DevOps. >> I think it's our multi-cloud story has really jelled over the past year, and now we're bring it in to the context of on-prem infrastructure in addition to the public cloud side of it, so I think that's the, that's big news from data center side. >> Todd Brannon who's the marketing director at Cisco here inside the Cube. We are in Barcelona, live coverage, two days, wall to wall. I'm John Furrier for Stu Miniman. More live coverage at the Cube after this short break. (synthesizer beat)

>> Narrator: From the SiliconANGLE Media Office, in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here are your hosts, Dave Vellante, and Stu Miniman. >> For several years now, the analysts at WikiBound have been talking about taking the cloud, the public cloud, operating model, and bringing it to your data, wherever that data lives. Hey everybody, this is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my co-host, Stu Miniman. Welcome to HCI: A Foundation For IT Transformation. We're here with Chad Dunn, who's the Vice President of Product Management and Marketing, at Dell EMC. Chad, good to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, glad to be here, good to spend time with you guys. >> So, we talk a lot about, you know, VxRail, speaking of foundations. Give us a quick update. What is it, and what's new with VxRail? >> Okay, well big news in VxRail land, right, we just completed our transition under the 14th generation of Dell Power Edge servers, so this gives us a substantially more powerful platform, a substantially more predictable performance, and a lot more configuration options that make it fit a lot of different workloads that our customers have, so it really makes it prime time for HCI. >> So, where is the power and performance come from? Is that predominantly, kind of, new compute? >> That's a big piece of it. Some of that is software as well, right? vSAN underlies VxRail as a software defined storage layer, and we've seen pretty amazing increases in performance, just from software, from our 13G, to our 14G transition, but when we look at that performance now, on 14G servers, with the Intel Skylake chipset, we're seeing 2x performance over the last generation, and we're seeing latencies that are very, very low. And that has to do with, more and faster memory channels, more threads, overall faster processors, so really off the hook, in terms of the performance that we're seeing. >> Chad, when we look at HCI, it's really about the software layer, often, it gets overlooked, you know, what actually has to happen between the software and that underlying hardware? Are there optimizations, does it matter if I'm using the software, you know, what's optimized for that next generation Intel chip? >> Yeah, it's all about the software, or so our software vendor would say, but we know that when you're treating something as a system, you need that hardware and that software to work together, in perfect unison, as a system, and, you know, we've done a lot in this generation, working with the PowerEdge team to make sure that we have the right hardware, hooks, and design points that are focused on HCI. That goes from things like the devices that we use to boot up, and where we would execute the hypervisor kernel, to network connectivity, and really importantly, to the inband channels that we use to update all of the little pieces of firmware that operate the hardware inside the system, right? You need to be able to treat those as a system, update, lifecycle manage those, all in context of one another, so having direct and deep, meaningful access into that hardware is critically important when you're operating a system like this. >> When we've looked at, kind of, our cloud strategy, in general, it's about the data. We talk about data, it's things like predictability and latency, it's about, kind of, the power of the underlying thing, maybe, give us a little bit more specifics, as to what you're getting in this generation. >> So, the big difference here, above and beyond the performance, which is about 2x what we saw from the last generation, if we look at the same hardware, the same software, running on the two different pieces of hardware, about 100% better. But that's really just part of the story. It's the predictability of latency that's critically important. If you're going to migrate Tier 1 workloads under this infrastructure, you need to ensure that other workloads are not going to disturb that performance. So when we look at this, we look at how the IOs per second increases, and we look at the overall latency. How long does that latency line stay flat, right? So when we look at this generation, we see over 2x the IOPS, but the horizontal line where we look at the response time in latency, it stays flat nine times longer in this generation than in the last. So if you've got that sub-millisecond response time, even at very high IOPS, you can put a lot of different workloads on that same infrastructure, and still get predictable performance. >> I think, the other thing that people don't understand, is that, oh, HCI, it's just like, it's that little LEGO block you build, but it's not just one LEGO block, what have you seen from customers, what's kind of, the portfolio, what are the decisions that they have to make, to kind of, pick the right configuration? >> Sure, so yeah, when you're a kid and you get your first LEGO set, you get a lot of pretty generalized blocks, they're all, you know, square and some are rectangle, but not a lot of variability. When you get up into the big leagues of the LEGO Star Wars set, right, you've got a lot of specialized parts, and you can do really advanced, really cool things. That's really where we're at with HCI right now. If you want to really tune the infrastructure for the workloads that you have, you need a lot of variability in the processors you choose, the amount of memory, the speed of memory, and even the storage. It could be hybrid, some people still choose hybrid HDDs, but even within flash, people will choose SAS or SATA drives depending on the performance and cost benefits that they want to realize. So being able to scale up and down the processors, the memory, different types of storage, is critically important, so you can fit it into those different workloads. Also, a lot more people use this for VDI, and for high end imaging. So the ability to pack these things full of graphical processing units, and still be able to power and cool the things, is critically important. We have a lot of applications in those verticals where there's video processing and these are required. So, we don't just have one model of VxRail, we've got a number of different VxRail models, all of which can scale up, and then of course, HCI can intrinsically scale out. So that lets you really fine-tune it and get to that expert level, in terms of your LEGO building blocks. >> So Chad, a minute ago, you mentioned workloads. So as you're bringing this sort of 14th generation server technology to VxRail, how has it affected workloads, what are you seeing is the sweet spot for workloads? >> So if I were to think back a year, the question that every customer would ask, is how do I know which workload is right for HCI? And a lot of times they even lack the vocabulary and taxonomy to say, okay, that fits, that doesn't fit. What's happened in the meantime though, are the software's gotten so much better, the hardware's gotten so much faster and more predictable, that the question is, well, what workloads are not right for HCI yet? And there are very few that aren't. So, we've seen people generally start off with one workload, right? Maybe it's VDI, maybe it's a database, and then they start to move other, as they get comfortable with it, they move other workloads over to it. Obviously, we've got a big install block, or install base of VxBlock, and Vblock. We see a lot of those customers start to migrate workloads from there onto a layer of HCI. And more and more, those are becoming Tier One workloads. Crate & Barrel is a great example, a great customer of ours. They're moving their point of sale systems onto VxRail. Now for a retailer, your point of sale system, that's about as mission critical as you can possibly get, so they and others now have the confidence to start to move these things over. The only outliers that we see are some of these very big data applications that are hugely write intensive, and we actually usually end up selling a layer of hyper-converge with our Isilon arrays, to store that data, and then put a layer of hyper-converge compute around it, because in some ways, hyper-converged is just a better way to server, if you know what I mean. >> Wondering if you can talk about the business impact, what a customer's seeing, how are they quantifying the value of these systems, share some stories, or color there. >> Sure, it's all about operational expense savings, right? How much more efficiently am I going to be able to operate this infrastructure? It's not so much about capital acquisition costs. So when you look at the typical operational expense savings, and that comes from us doing all the lifecycle management of the hardware, of the software, of the cluster as a system, you see those costs go down. Really good example, is First Credit of British Columbia. Another one of our good customers. Now, they've deployed this, they've seen 30% OPEX savings and they've seen 50% power and space savings. You get a smaller package because you don't have separate storage array, separate servers, but, you also have really, one function that needs to operate your environment and that's the virtual administrator. He or she is the one that really operates everything, you don't have separate storage, separate compute, separate virtualization teams that have to look after the infrastructure. So, that first run is very easy, very fast to deploy, but it's day two through 700 and day 900 where you see that recurring operational expense saving where it really pays off for customers, all the updates and updates and life cycle management. >> Yeah, so Chad you talk about the success and all the customers. What about the customers that haven't looked at kind of the HCI space yet? What are they missing? You know, what do you say to those customers that maybe, you know, aren't sure if the waters right to jump in yet? >> So there's really three ways that you're going to encounter a customer who's going to consider HCI. You're either going to refresh a server, you know, your servers are up for maintenance and you're going to take a look at HCI as the next step in your evolution of your compute strategy. Or you're going to refresh your storage, and you're going to look at hyperconvergence as the next step in the evolution of your storage strategy. Or you've got that one workload that's probably net new and it's going to be, sort of, an isolated case and they need an infrastructure and they need to stand if up fast. That third case is really the one that drove the initial adoption of HCI, I can't tell you how many of our customers started with VDI. I mean, it's so cliched now to talk about VDI as killer app for HCI, but that's how so many people started. Because it's, you know, a very bound, isolated infrastructure and from there they get comfortable with it and they start to bring other workloads onto it. So, if you're thinking about refreshing your servers and if you're thinking about refreshing storage, it's time to kick the tires onto HCI. If you've got a workload that you need to stand up quickly and you don't know how big it's going to be, you know, one, two, three years down the road. It's another opportunity to look at HCI. Because you can start with a very small infrastructure, but you can grow it to a very very large one. >> What if we could talk a little bit about digital transformation, I mean, everybody's talking about digital transformation, and to us, digital transformation is all about how you leverage data and the edges exploding. We've envisioned sort of a three tier data model. You've got the edge, you've got maybe an aggregation point and you bring it back to the cloud. And that cloud can be a public cloud or it can be on-prem. So you've got to have some kind of cloud infrastructure to manage all this data. So where does this fit in the context of transformations and why does hardware matter? >> Yep, well let's go from the end and work back to the beginning. Hardware matters because of form factor, for one. As you start to push compute out to the edge, right, you want form factors that are small, don't consume a lot of power but, you know, still have a lot of processing power and can manipulate that data. Right, the whole internet of things phenomenon that is, creating all this data out at the edge, you know, presents us with a conundrum right? The data itself is not that valuable, the insights that we get from the data are immensely valuable. Bringing all that data back to the core to do something with is not cost effective. So, it's how do we turn the data at the edge into information and then how do we funnel that valuable information back to the core and leave the unvaluable data out where it is. hyper-converge fits really well there because you can have, you know, devices of very small form factors that are very quick to deploy, very easy to manage remotely. At the aggregation point you can have, simply, larger versions of the same thing or more of the same thing. And then finally at the core you can have very large clusters of hyperconverged appliances, like VxRail, to do your processing. Now the key is from an operational perspective you've still got a single pane of glass that manages everything. Right, it's still the same set of tools, it's still the same hardware and software lifecycle management process that happens out at the edge, at the aggregation point and at the core. So again, it comes back to the operational expense of making decisions closer to the data and then managing everything with a consistent set of tools. >> So I wondered if we could also talk about the competition and when Stu and I think about competition in this sphere we look at, first of all this all sort of software defined, everything can moved into software defined. So we see two vectors, one is head to head competition with other software defined suppliers, and the second big competitor is, hey, I'm just going to roll on my own. >> Chad Dunn: Right >> So let's start with the former, why Delium C vs vendor A, B, C or D? >> Sure, sure it really gets down to what your goal is as a customer and we obviously have multiple options within our own portfolio and those perfectly, you know, find solutions for a lot of people. But, you know, number one if you're a VMware user and you want to optimize around the VMware user experience, then VxRail is the way to go. Because we do co-engineer this with Vmware, it's not just a regular partnership, we have engineers and marketing people and product managers at Vmware that functionally role up to our team and so we do behave as one engineering and one product management organization to really optimize the user experience for VMware. Secondly, architecturally from a VCM perspective, this is a service that's baked into the kernal of vSphere. So, in terms of performance and the overhead that it creates on CPU, memory, et cetera. This is the best game in town. We can do more IO more predictably with flatter latency than really any other solution that's on the market in the HCI space. Every other one takes a virtual storage appliance approach where they have something running on top of the hypervisor. >> Dave Vellante: Right. >> The very long and circuitous data path, we'll performance test against solutions like that all day long, every day, that doesn't worry us at all. So, if you're a vSphere customer, VMware customer it's the most obvious choice and from a performance perspective you're not giving up anything right? We don't want users to have to sacrifice the storage functionality, the performance, the compute functionality. Just because it's hyper-converge and you scale out doesn't mean you can compromise on any to those axis. >> Okay, what about the guys who like to change their own oil in the car and the spark plugs and tune it up and they want to roll on their own. >> (laughs) It's been a long time since I've been able to work on my own car. So I encounter these kind of customers all the time. It's the build your own crowd and it's what they've been doing for a long time. And it's great, alright, I build my own computers at home and I have my own ESX server that I put together. I can't afford a VxRail. (laughing) There's no employee discount. So I'll tell you a story that will hopefully make sense, my first job when I got into this business, I went to Boston College, my first job and work study was to keep a spreadsheet that had all the MAC addresses and all the IP addresses for every host on the BC network and keep those in sync. >> You're really good at that I bet. >> I was excellent at that. That is not a skill set that is in demand right now. Or really even at that time. But when you think about what it means to take a software defined storage product like VMware vSAN and take an x86 server and put those together. Yes, you're getting to the same destination of running vSphere on a host with software defined storage. You're missing the systemness, right? We go to a lot of trouble to make sure we're managing all of things things in the context of the cluster level. All of the little pieces of firmware, and they're roughly 12 or so pieces of firmware that we have to take care of. From the BIOS to the drive controller firmware, the drives, the boss card, which is our boot media, the iDRAC firmware, the backplane, power supplies. In legacy EMC we spent 30 years building arrays. We had all those same challenges with all the different pieces of firmware and software that all had to function as a system, we did that. And we guaranteed that it would live up to 5/9ths of availability for the customer. That's exactly what we do when we deliver VxRail's hyperconverge. If you want to choose to build those things yourself that's fine if you have the skills and that's how you want to operate your business. The 5/9ths is now on you though. Right, because you're the one responsible for bringing all those parts together. So, yeah it's certainly a valid path for others but, the market is shifting and we see more often than not, people are moving towards a buy approach rather than build. >> You bring up a great point. I remember back in the early days before we even called it HCI, you think about vSAN, oh well is the storage admin going to buy it? Is the virtualization admin going to take that over? What's excited me about this wave is the oh, heres the cool stuff that companies are doing now that they're not spending their time keeping spreadsheets of MAC addresses. >> Chad Dunn: Yeah, yeah exactly. >> What is the kind of, you know, owner of this, look like in your environment? And any cool stories you're hearing from customers transforming their organization. >> By and large the operator is your virtual admin. The person who is at home in vCenter and vROps, you know, maybe even vRA if they're going full infrastructure as a service. That's really the user of this, and the dynamic you mention is similar to what we had with Vblock, right. Customers who went Vblock, who said, I'm going to change my operating model to a virtual administrator versus compute, storage, network. You know, customers who didn't change the operating model were not happy Vblock customers. Ones that did change the model did. And, I'll tell ya a real off script anecdote, recently I was traveling in Europe, and I started playing a game with the sales guy we were traveling with. Because in Europe, very often, they have more of an affinity to putting their logos on the sides of buildings in a lot of European cities. So, as we would go to these different cities and we went from Stockholm all the way down to Rome, to Switzerland, to Amsterdam. You know, we're just spotting VxRail customers, right, whose going to spot the most. And the one really interesting one is we checked into a hotel, you know, late night in Switzerland. Next morning we meet for breakfast and he goes, "Did you spot the rail customer?" I said "Who was it?" We went into the bathroom and they have these, you know, squeeze bottles that have the soap in the shower and it's a cosmetics company and they're located in Germany. And they do, obviously, a ton of business all over Europe, and they had outsourced a lot of their IT because, you know, their core competency is not IT, it's cosmetics. And they now have one guy that looks after all of IT for this company rather than outsource it to two different companies to manage all this and he runs it all on VxRail. So, transformative yes, to that company very transformative. But, at a very small scale, but that pattern sort of repeats itself the higher that you scale. >> Alright we're out of time but where can people go to get more information on this and other products your HTI strategy. >> If I were them I'd go to dellemc.com/hci. >> Excellent, Chad, thanks very much, Stu appreciate you co-hosting with me and check out videos on thecube.net, this and other videos will be up there. Thanks for watching everybody, Dave Vellante for Stu Miniman we'll see you next time! (techno music)

>> Welcome to another edition of Wikibon's Weekly Research Meeting on theCUBE. (techno music) I'm Peter Burris, and once again I'm joined by, in studio, George Gilbert, David Floyer. On the phone we have Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman, Ralph Finos, and Neil Raden. And this week we're going to be visiting Dell EMC's Analyst Summit. And we thought we'd take some time today to go deeper into the transition that Dell and EMC have been on in the past few years, touching upon some of the value that they've been creating for customers and addressing some of the things that we think they're going to have to do to continue on the path that they're on and continue to deliver value to the marketplace. Now, to look back over the course of the past year, it was about a year ago that the transaction actually closed. And in the ensuing year, there's been a fair amount of change. We've seen some interesting moves by Dell to bring the companies together, a fair amount of conversation about how bigger is better. And at the most recent VMworld, we saw a lot of great news of VMworld, VMware in particular working more closely with Amazon and others, or AWS and others. So we've seen some very positive things happen in the course of the past year. But there are still some crucial questions that are addressed. And to kick us off, Dave Vellante, where are we one year in and what are we expecting to hear this week? >> Dave: And foremost, Michael Dell was trying to transform his company. It wasn't happening fast enough. He had to go private. He wanted to be an enterprise player, and amazingly, he and Silver Lake came up with four billion dollars in cash. And they may very well pull off one of the greatest wealth creation trades in the history of the computer industry because for four billion dollars, they're getting an asset that's worth somewhere north of 50 billion, and they're paying down the debt that they used to lever that acquisition through cash flow. So like I say, for a pittance (laughs) of four billion dollars, they're going to turn that into a lot of dough, tens and tens of billions. If you look at EMC pre the M and A, I'm sorry, if you look at Dell pre M and A, pre-merger, their transformation was largely failing. The company was making a lot of acquisitions but it wasn't able to reshape itself fast enough. If you look at EMC pre-merger, it was a powerhouse, but it was suffering from this decade-long collapse of infrastructure hardware and software pricing, which was very much a drag on growth and cash flow. So the company was forced to find a white knight, which came in the form of Michael Dell. So you had this low gross margin company, Dell's public gross margin before it went private were in the teens. EMC was in the roughly 60%. Merge those together and you get a roughly 30% plus gross margin entity. I don't think they're there yet. I think they got a lot of work to do. So a lot of talk about integration. And there's some familiarity with these two companies because they had a fairly large OEM deal for the better part of a decade in the 90s. But culturally, it's quite different. Dell's a very metrics-driven culture with a lot of financial discipline. EMC's kind of a take the hill, do whatever it takes culture. And they're in the process of bringing those together, and a lot of cuts are taking place. So we want to understand what impacts those will have to customers. The other point I want to make is that without VMware, in my view anyway, the combination of these companies would not be nearly as interesting. In fact, it would be quite boring. So the core of these companies, you know, have faced a lot of challenges. But they do have VMware to leverage. And I think the challenge that customers really need to think about is how does this company continue to innovate now that they can't really do M and A? If you look at EMC, for years, they would spend money on R and D and make incremental improvements to its product lines and then fill the gaps with M and A. And there're many, many examples of that, Isilon, Data Domain, XtremIO, and dozens of others. That kept EMC competitive. So how does Dell continue that strength? It spends about four and a half billion a year on R and D, and according to Wikibon's figures, that's about 6% of revenue. If you compare that with other companies, Oracle, Amazon, they're into the 12%. Google's mid-teens. Microsoft, obviously to 12, 13%. Cisco's up there. EMC itself was spending 12% on R and D. So IBM's only about 6%, but remember IBM, about two thirds of the company is services. It's not R and D heavy. So Dell has got to cut costs. It's a must. And what implications does that have on the service levels that customers have grown to expect, and what's the implications on Dell's roadmap? I think we would posit that a lot of the cash cows are going to get funded in a way that allows them to have a managed decline in that business. And it's likely that customers are going to see reduced roadmap functions going forward. So a key challenge that I see for Dell EMC is growth. The strength is really VMware, and the leverage of the VMware and their own install base I think gives Dell EMC the ability to keep pace with its competitors because it's got kind of the inside baseball there. It's got a little bit of supply chain leverage, and of course its sales force and its channels are a definite advantage for this company. But it's got a lot of weaknesses and challenges. Complexity of the portfolio, it's got a big debt load that hamstrings its ability to do M and A. I think services is actually a big opportunity for this company. Servicing its large install base. And I think the key threat is cloud and China. I think China, with its low-cost structure, made a deal like this inevitable. So I come back to the point of Michael Dell's got to cut in order to stay competitive. >> Peter: Alright, so one of the, sorry- >> Dave: Next week, hear a lot about sort of innovation strategies, which are going to relate to the edge. Dell EMC has not announced an edge strategy. It needs to. It's behind HPE in that regard, one its major competitors. And it's got to get into the game. And it's going to be really interesting to see how they are leveraging data to participate in that IOT business. >> Great summary, Dave. So you mentioned that one of the key challenges that virtually every company faces is how do they reposition themselves in a world in which the infrastructure platform, foundation, is going to be more cloud-oriented. Stu Miniman, why don't you take us through, very quickly, where Dell EMC is relative to the cloud? >> Stu: Yeah, great question, Peter. And just to set that up, it's important to talk about one of the key initiatives from Dell and EMC coming together, one of the synergies that Michael Dell has highlighted is really around the move from converged infrastructure to hyper converged infrastructure. And this is also the foundational layer that Dell EMC uses today for a lot of their cloud solutions. So EMC has done a great job with the first wave of converged infrastructure through partnering with Cisco. They created the Vblock, which is now VxBlock, which is now a multi-billion dollar revenue stream. And Dell did a really good job of jumping on early with the hyper converged infrastructure trend. So I'd written research years ago that not only was it through partnerships but through OEM deals, if you look at most of the solutions that were being sold on the market, the underlying server for them was Dell. And that was even before the EMC acquisition. Once they acquired EMC, they really get kind of control, if you will, of the VMware VSAN business, which is a very significant player. They have an OEM relationship with Nutanix, who's doing quite well in the space, and they put together their own full-stack solution, which takes Dell's hardware, the VMware VSAN, and the go-to-market processes of what used to be VCE, and they put together VxRail, which is doing quite well from a revenue and a growth standpoint. And the reason I set this all up to talk about cloud is that if you look at Dell's positioning, a lot of their cloud starts at that foundational infrastructure level. They have all of these enterprise hybrid clouds and different solutions that they've been offering for a few years. And underneath those, really it is a simplified infrastructure hardware offering. So whether that is the traditional VCE converged infrastructure solutions or the newer hyper converged infrastructure solutions, that's the base level. And then there's software that wraps on top of it. So they've done a decent amount of revenue. The concern I have is, you know, Peter, you laid out, it's very much a software world. We've been talking a lot at Wikibon about the multi-cloud nature of what's going on. And while Dell and the Dell family have a very strong position in the on-premises market, that's really they're center strength, is around hardware and customer and the enterprises data center. And the threat is public cloud and multi-cloud. And if it centers around hardware and especially when you dig down and say, "okay, I want to sell more servers," which is one of the primary drivers that Michael wants to have with his whole family of solutions, how much can you really live across these in various environments? Of course, they have partnerships with Microsoft. There's the VMware partnerships with Amazon, which is interesting, how they even partner with the likes of Google and others, it can be looked at. But from that kind of center strength is on premises and therefore they're not really living heavily in the public and multi-cloud world, unless you look at Pivotal. So Pivotal's a software, and that's where they're going to say that the big push is, but it's these massive shifts of large install base of EMC, Dell, and VMware, compared to the public cloud that are doing the land grabs. So this is where it's really interesting to look at. And the announcement that we're interested to look at is how IOT and edge fits into all of this. So David Foyer and you, Peter, research about how- >> Peter: Yeah, well, we'll get to that. >> Stu: There's a lot of nuance there. >> We'll get to that in a second, Stu. But one of the things I wanted to mention to David Floyer is that certainly in the case of Dell, they have been a major player in the Intel ecosystem. And as we think about what's going to happen over the course of the next couple of years, what's going to happen with Intel? It's going to continue to dominate. And what's that going to mean for Dell? >> Sure, Dell's success, I mean, what Stu has been talking about is the importance of volume for Dell, being a volume player. And obviously when they're looking at Intel, the PC is a declining market, and ARM is doing incredibly well in the mobile and other marketplaces. And Dell's success is essentially tied to Intel. So the question to ask is if Intel starts to lose market share to ARM and maybe even IBM, what is the impact on that on Dell? And in particular, what is the impact on the edge? And so if you look at the edge, there are two primary parts. We put forward there are two parts of the edge. There's the primary data, which is coming from the sensors themselves, from the cameras and other things like that. So there's the primary edge, and there's the secondary edge, which is after that data has been processed. And if you think about the primary edge, AI and DL go to the primary edge because that's where the data is coming in, and you want the highest fidelity of data. So you want to do the processing as close as possible to that. So you're looking at these examples in autonomous cars. You're seeing it in security cameras, that all of that processing is going to much cheaper chips, very, very close to the data itself. What that means is that most of that IOT, or could mean, is that most of that IOT could go to other vendors, other than Intel, to go to the ARM vendors. And if you look at that market, it's going to be very specialized in the particular industry and the particular problem it's trying to solve. So it's likely that non-IT vendors are going to be in that business. And you're likely to be selling to OT and not the IT. So all of those are challenges to Dell in attacking the edge. They can win the secondary edge, which is the compressed data, initially compressing it 1,000 to one, probably going to a million to one compression of the data coming from the sensors to a much higher value data but much, much smaller amounts, both on the compute side and on the storage side. So if that bifurcation happens at the edge, the size of marketplace is going to be very considerably reduced for Intel. And Dell has in my view a strategic decision to make of whether they get into being part of that ARM ecosystem for the edge. There's a strong argument that's saying that they would need to do that. >> And they will be announcing something on Monday, I believe, or next week. We're going to hear a lot about that. But when we think, ultimately, about the software that Dell and EMC are going to have to think about, they're very strong in VMware, which is important, and there's no question that virtual machines will remain important, if not only from an install base standpoint but from, in the future, how the cloud is organized and arranged and managed. Pivotal also is an interesting play, especially as it does a better job of incorporating more of the open source elements that are becoming very attractive to developers. But George, let me ask you a question, ultimately, about where is Dell in some of these more advanced software worlds? When we think about machine learning, when we think about AI, these are not strong markets right now, are not huge markets right now, but they're leading indicators. They're going to provide cues about where the industry's going to go and who's going to get a chance to provide the tooling for them. So what's our take right now, where Dell is, Dell EMC is relative to some of these technologies? >> Okay, so that was a good lead in for my take on all the great research David Floyer's done, which is when we go through big advances in hardware, typically relative price performance changes between CPU, memory, storage, networking. When we see big relative changes between those, then there's an opportunity for the software to be re-architected significantly. So in this case, what we call unigrid, what David's called unigrid previously is the ability to build scale-out, extremely high-performance clusters to the point where we don't have to bottleneck on shared storage like a SAN anymore. In other words, we can treat the private memory for each node as if it were storage, direct-attached storage, but it is now so fast in getting between nodes and to the memory in a node that for all intents and purposes, it can perform as if you had a shared storage small cluster before. Only now this can scale out to hundreds, perhaps thousands, of nodes. The significance of that is we are in an era of big data and big analytics. And so the issue here is can Dell sort of work with the most advanced software vendors who are trying to push the envelope to build much larger-scale data management software than they've been able to. Now, Dell has an upward, sort of an uphill climb to master the cloud vendors. They build their own infrastructure hardware. But they've done pools of GPUs, for instance, to accelerate machine learning training. Dell could work with these data management vendors to get pools of this scale-out hardware in the clouds to take advantage of the NoSQL databases, the NewSQL databases. There's an opportunity to leapfrog. What we found out at Oracle, at their user conference this week was even though they're building similar hardware, their database is not yet ready to take advantage of it. So there is an opportunity for Dell to start making inroads in the cloud where their generic infrastructure wouldn't. Now, one more comment on the edge, I know David was saying on the sort of edge device, that's looking more and more like it doesn't have to be Intel-compatible. But if you go to the edge gateway, the thing that bridges OT and IT, that's probably going to be their best opportunity on the edge. The challenge, though, is it's not clear how easy it will be in a low-touch sort of go-to-market model that Dell is accustomed to because like they discovered in the late 90s, it cost $6,000 per year per PC to support. And no one believed that number until Intel did a study on itself and verified it. The protocols from all the sensors on the OT side are so horribly complex and legacy-oriented that even the big auto manufacturers keep track of the different ones on a spreadsheet. So mapping the IT gateway server to all the OT edge devices may turn out to be horribly complex for a few years. >> Oh, it's not a question of may. It is going to be horribly complex for the next few years. (laughing) I don't think there's any question about that. But look, here's what I want to do. I want to ask one more question. And I'm going to go do a round table and ask everybody to give me what the opportunity is and what the threat is. But before I do that, the one thing we haven't discussed, and Dave Vellante, I'm going to throw it over to you, is we've looked at the past of Dell talks a lot about the advantages of its size and the economies of scale that it gets. And Dell's not in the semiconductor business or at least not in a big way. And that's one place where you absolutely do get economies of scale. They got VMware in the system software business, which is an important point. So there may be some economies there. But in manufacturing and assembly, as you said earlier, Dave, that is all under consideration when we think about where the real cost efficiencies are going to be. One of the key places may be in the overall engagement model. The ability to bring a broad portfolio, package it up, and make it available to a customer with the appropriate set of services, and I think this is why you said services is still an opportunity. But what does it mean to get to the Dell EMC overall engagement model as Dell finds or looks to find ways to cut costs, to continue to pay down its debt and show a better income statement? >> Dave: So let me take the customer view. I mean, I think you're right. This whole end to end narrative that you hear from Dell, for years you heard it from HP, I don't think it really makes that much of a difference. There is some supply chain leverage, no question. So you can get somewhat cheaper components, you could probably get supplies, which are very tight right now. So there are definitely some tactical advantages for customers, but I think your point is right on. The real leverage is the engagement model. And the interesting thing from I think our standpoint is that you've got a very high-touch EMC direct sales force, and that's got to expand into the channel. Now, EMC's done a pretty good job with the channel over the last, you know, half a decade. Dell doesn't have as good a reputation there. Its channel partners are many more but perhaps not as sophisticated. So I think one of the things to watch is the channel transformation and then how Dell EMC brings its services and its packages to the market. I think that's very, very important for customers in terms of reducing a lot of the complexity in the Dell EMC portfolio, which just doubled in complexity. So I think that is something that is going to be a critical indicator. It's an opportunity, and at the same time, if they blow it, it's a big threat to this organization. I think it's one of the most important things, especially, as you pointed out, in the context of cost cutting. If they lose sight of the importance of the customer, they could hit some bumps in the road and open it up for competition to come in and swoop some of their business. I don't think they will. I think Michael Dell is very focused on the customer, and EMC's culture has always been that way. So I would bet on them succeeding there, but it's not a trivial task. >> Yeah, I would agree with you. In fact, one of the statements that we heard from Michael Dell and other executives at Dell EMC at VMworld, over and over and over again, on theCUBE and elsewhere, was this notion of open with an opinion. And in many respects, the opinion is not just something that they say. It's something that they do through their packaging and how they put their technologies into the marketplace. Okay, guys, rapid fire, really, really, really short answers. Let's start with the threats. And then we'll close with the positive note on the strengths. David Floyer, really quick, biggest threat that we're looking at next week? >> The biggest threat is the evolution of ARM processes, and if they keep to an Intel-only strategy, that to me is their biggest threat. Those could offer a competition in both mobile, increasing percentages of mobile, and also also in the IOT and other processor areas. >> Alright, George Gilbert, biggest threat? >> Okay, two, summarizing the comments I made before, one, they may not be able to get the cloud vendors to adopt pools of their scale-out infrastructure because the software companies may not be ready to take advantage of it yet. So that's cloud side. >> No, you just get one. Dave Vellante. >> Dave: Interest rates. (laughing) >> Peter: Excellent. Stu Miniman. >> Stu: Software. >> Peter: Okay, come on Stu. Give me an area. >> Stu: Dell's a hardware company! Everything George said, there's no way the cloud guys are going to adopt Dell EMC's infrastructure gear. This is a software play. Dell's been cutting their software assets, and I'm really worried that I'm going to see an edge box, you know, that doesn't have the intelligence that they need to put the intelligence that they say that they're going to put in. >> So, specifically, it's software that's capable of running the edge centers, so to speak. Ralph Finos. >> Ralph: Yeah, I think the hardware race to the bottom. That's a big part of their business, and I think that's a challenge when you're looking at going head on head, with HPE especially. >> Peter: Neil Raden, Neil Raden. >> Neil: Private managed cloud. >> Or what we call true private cloud, which goes back to what Stu said, related to the software and whether or not it ends up being manageable. Okay, threats. David Floyer. >> You mean? >> Or I mean opportunities, strengths. >> Opportunities, yes. The opportunity is being by far the biggest IT place out there, and the opportunity to suck up other customers inside that. So that's a big opportunity to me. They can continue to grow by acquisition. Even companies the size of IBM might be future opportunities. >> George Gilbert. >> On the opposite side of what I said earlier, they really could work with the data management vendors because we really do need scale-out infrastructure. And the cloud vendors so far have not spec'd any or built any. And at the same time, they could- >> Just one, George. (laughing) Stu Miniman. >> Dave: Muted. >> Peter: Dave Vellante. >> Dave: I would say one of the biggest opportunities is 500,000 VMware customers. They've got the server piece, the networking piece kind of, and storage. And combine that with their services prowess, I think it's a huge opportunity for them. >> Peter: Stu, you there? Ralph Finos. >> Stu: Sorry. >> Peter: Okay, there you go. >> Stu: Dave stole mine, but it's not the VMware install base, it's really the Dell EMC install base, and those customers that they can continue moving along that journey. >> Peter: Ralph Finos. >> Ralph: Yeah, highly successful software platform that's going to be great. >> Peter: Neil Raden. >> Neil: Too big to fail. >> Alright, I'm going to give you my bottom lines here, then. So this week we discussed Dell EMC and our expectations for the Analyst Summit and our observations on what Dell has to say. But very quickly, we observed that Dell EMC is a financial play that's likely to make a number of people a lot of money, which by the way has cultural implications because that has to be spread around Dell EMC to the employee base. Otherwise some of the challenges associated with cost cutting on the horizon may be something of an issue. So the whole cultural challenges faced by this merger are not insignificant, even as the financial engineering that's going on seems to be going quite well. Our observation is that the cloud world ultimately is being driven by software and the ability to do software, with the other observation that the traditional hardware plays tied back to Intel will by themselves not be enough to guarantee success in the multitude of different cloud options that will become available, or opportunities that will become available to a wide array of companies. We do believe the true private cloud will remain crucially important, and we expect that Dell EMC will be a major player there. But we are concerned about how Dell is going to evolve as a, or Dell EMC is going to evolve as a player at the edge and the degree to which they will be able to enhance their strategy by extending relationships to other sources of hardware and components and technology, including, crucially, the technologies associated with analytics. We went through a range of different threats. If we identify two that are especially interesting, one, interest rates. If the interest rates go up, making Dell's debt more expensive, that's going to lead to some strategic changes. The second one, software. This is a software play. Dell has to demonstrate that it can, through its 6% of R and D, generate a platform that's capable of fully automating or increasing the degree to which Dell EMC technologies can be automated. In many conversations we've had with CIOs, they've been very clear. One of the key criteria for the future choices of suppliers will be the degree to which that supplier fits into their automation strategy. Dell's got a lot of work to do there. On the big opportunities side, the number one from most of us has been VMware and the VMware install base. Huge opportunity that presents a pathway for a lot of customers to get to the cloud that cannot be discounted. The second opportunity that we think is very important that I'll put out there is that Dell EMC still has a lot of customers with a lot of questions about how digital transformation's going to work. And if Dell EMC can establish itself as a thought leader in the relationship between business, digital business, and technology and bring the right technology set, including software but also packaging of other technologies, to those customers in a true private cloud format, then Dell has the potential to bias the marketplace to their platform even as the marketplace chooses in an increasingly rich set of mainly SaaS but public cloud options. Thanks very much, and we look forward to speaking with you next week on the Wikibon Weekly Research Meeting here on theCUBE. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to VMworld 2017, everybody. This is theCUBE, and my name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with Peter Burris. This is our eighth year at VMworld. Day two, Jon Siegal is here. He's the VP of product marketing at Dell EMC. Jon, good to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Great to be here, yeah. >> So we've been talking a little earlier this morning about the bottlenecks and how that's evolved. It was originally the compute, that was the constraint. Spinning rust became very, very clearly, five, six years ago it was very clear that it was a major problem. VMware did a great job putting forth APIs. It solved that problem, then flash came in. Now the bottleneck, Jon, is shifting to the network. What's going on there? Give us some context. >> Absolutely. Loud and clear, I think, to your point, to the keynotes this week, I think Pat Gelsinger made it very clear, I think, that the era of the hypervisor, we moved beyond that now, in terms of where the monitorization, where a lot of the innovation's happening. And next up to your point is really the network. The era of the network over the next decade. Really, what's important there is assuring that we have a network that is software to find, that can orchestrate resources to put them in the right place at the right time. And so, what we have, is we have a solution called Vscale, actually, which is very relevant to this space, which has a very solid fabric and supports NSX, and uses NSX at its core. Really, what this is about is taking the turnkey experience that customers prefer to have today in the system level, if you will, like we have with VxBlock, for example, and extending that, now, to the data center and actually multiple data centers. I think this is very, very relevant. This is a data center, modern data center type of approach for the future. >> So, Pat, not Pat, but Chad, we had Chad on earlier, we asked Chad, "What's going to be that kind of Dell EMC Cloud experience?" And he went through a couple things. He made the observation that there's going to be, we're on the verge of significant platform competition. Not something that we haven't seen in a while. One of the things that we agreed to, or agreed on, was the idea that, increasingly, we're going to evaluate platforms based on how well they bind to other platforms in the context of what the business needs, workload needs, the realities of the data. One of the things it gets at least me excited about Vscale is that it starts from the premise of, this is how you're going to bind CI and HCI and traditional, you're going to bind it together using this fabric, this set of technologies. Talk a little bit about that. >> Absolutely. I think, to your point here, with Vscale, I often try to paint a picture for customers, what if you could actually move your workloads around, across the infrastructure as you need to? What if you could share resources across CI and HCI? By resources, I mean data protection resources. Could be compute, could be storage, could be network resources. >> Security. >> Security, exactly, across that. What if you could assure that the upgrades, the expansions, the patches are fully interoperable across the data center? That's the experience of Vscale. That's the modern data center approach. And to your point, this is where the future is going for data centers. It allows customers to take what they have today, and legacy infrastructure, and marry that to modern infrastructure in such a way by, on top of that, using orchestration policies and software to find networking. >> And that's different from the sort of original, it's an evolution from the original Vblock, and then that was a block of infrastructure, and you managed that block. And now you're talking about what you called a binding technology across the data center. Is that the fundamental difference, and am I missing something? >> No, that's a great point. I think, to take step back for a second, seven years ago, we jointly engineered, jointly pioneered the CI space with VMware and Cisco. We did that, first of all, what was our premise? Our premise was, how do we simplify IT? How do we help our customers spend a lot less time maintaining and managing and sustaining infrastructure, spend more time delivering IT services, delivering applications faster to market, and those types of things. And the answer was Vblock and VxBlock, to your point. That was essentially a converged infrastructure with compute, storage, networking, and the ability to manage and sustain that across a lifecycle. On one hand, that was at a single system level, but now customers are saying, "What if we could do that across the data center?" That's what Vscale is. It's the same approach. The ability to now sustain that and lifecycle that infrastructure across the data center, and we do that jointly by engineered solutions with Cisco and with VMware. >> I want to share something with you. Peter, you said something to me the other day which I thought was quite instructive. You said, "Look, the technology for this stuff "has largely matured. "It's the people and process behind it, now, "that we really have to worry about." When converged infrastructure first came out, I remember, I wrote a piece talking about the organizational implications, 'cause you had a storage person, a server person, networking person, and advised my readers, get your house in order organizationally beforehand. And as I started to talk to more customers, I met one, an insurance company who was a big Vblock customer. He said, "You got it all wrong. "Here's how a change agent does it. "You put the stuff in, "and the organization will figure itself out." Which I thought was pretty radical. I bring that forward today-- >> But it only works some of the time. (Dave laughing) >> So, what are the organizational implications, as to Peter's point? The technology's maturing, it's maybe been demystified. What are you seeing, in terms of that people and process evolution? >> Well, first of all, we're seeing more and more focus and investment when it comes to IT moving up the stack. Again, what we're trying to do is say, "Do you really want to spend time which, frankly, "isn't necessarily a competitive differentiator "on maintaining that infrastructure, "or do you want to actually hire resources "that can develop the new applications, "develop the services, and move across data centers, "and actually bring new customers on-flight faster "if you're a service provider, "bring new applications online faster "if you're any enterprise out there today "that's trying to make a difference?" What we're seeing here is, I think, the level and sophistication of the IT personnel that's getting hired is different now. And I think what we're seeing is that fewer resources are required to do the day-to-day routine tasks. It's actually become a great opportunity for IT to move up the stack. For example, Inovalon. That's an example of a customer, actually, I think you may have met them, Peter, at Cisco Live. They are a healthcare data analytics provider. So, in a healthcare space, big data's making a big impact. It's about, how do they improve patient outcomes? Big data can do that. Inovalon's at the heart of that. They're a service provider providing data analytics, big data solutions for healthcare providers. They needed a way to, first of all, get to market faster with their solutions. They needed to be able to onboard new customers faster. And, by the way, they didn't have the investments to hire new people. So what they had to do is they had to find a way to triple their infrastructure without adding any resources. And, by the way, they did that. They did that with Vscale. >> Peter: Tripled their capacity? >> Yeah, their capacity, exactly. Their capacity, their capacity in the infrastructure-- >> Not the physical assets, the capacity. >> Exactly, the capacity to do so. That shows you that we're the investment, and that allows them to innovate more and up and up the stack, and that's what we're seeing more and more. >> So, in many respects, what I see you saying, and let me see if I got this right, is that it used to be that the server was the primary citizen, and you configured everything around. And then it became other things. Where we are now is increasingly, the data is the primary citizen, and what we need to be able to do is put in place technologies that can allow the data to be where it needs to be, but very rapidly and quickly share it appropriately based on the workloads, and the only way to do that is look at how you're going to connect data resources together, including applications. To me, anyway, Vscale is this interesting technology that allows you to think in terms of designing your infrastructure around the placement of the data. >> Jon: That's exactly right. >> What about it is so interesting to you? Maybe you could elaborate on that? >> Well, because, at the end of the day, Dave, again, we're trying to look at these data assets, we're trying to figure out how can we create value? I talked to Colin last time. People like to talk about data as the new oil. Well, the problem with that is that oil still follows the rules of scarcity. I use oil here, I can't use it there. With data, I can use data here and I can use it there if I have that fabric in place, that very facile way to connect those data resources together, and that's why I get the amplification on the value of the data, The value of the infrastructure assets that I have in place and the value of the IT organization. That's going to amplify it. What Vscale's allowing people to at least start thinking about, and doing, is to say, "I can share these resources in new ways "if I think in terms of how they bind together "in under control, under management, "so I can very quickly start putting these resources, "reconfiguring these resources in a way "that allows me to generate new levels of business value." >> That's exactly right. >> What's always interested me about just convergence in general was what you were talking about, Jon, and Peter, to tie it to what you just said is, that IT labor problem. I think we're way, way beyond IT management, operations people trying to hold on to their jobs. It really talks to the business value that they're delivering. When you talk to people about, what'd you do with those resources that you freed up, they got their weekends back, or they shifted people into development, application development enablement roles. Maybe not coding, but they're getting into facilitating. >> Oftentimes, what I find is that, in CI, for example, can be a career development path. It can enable career development paths for a lot of IT organizations out there today who are looking as they need to find ways, they can't actually hire additional resources, but what they can do is if they can actually at least help to greatly simplify the day-to-day tasks that they're doing, they can now start to spend a lot less time on those mundane tasks and more time on how they can differentiate the business, which is up the stack, which is developing new applications, developing new services. Exactly right. I think, what we do find, though, is that if CI, if convergent infrastructure in general, and hyperconverge is put in, but the organization doesn't change. >> Let me build on that for one second. I know we got to go. This is really important to me, and I want to test with you very quickly, and then we got to wrap. The computing model. When we talk about computation model, or the computing model, we talk not just about the technology, but the way we think about a problem. The way we approach a problem with technology. What's so interesting about this is that converged, hyperconverged, Vscale, and these technologies are not only a new way of thinking about technology, but they enable a new way of thinking about how we're going to solve a problem. And that to me is the career path for today's infrastructure geeks who've been focused on a product, because they can become more relevant if they help the business think new ways of solving problems, that new computational model. >> And leveraging that data in new ways. I think you're right. Basically, we're creating a fabric, an ecosystem, if you will, to connect all the resources together, and then we have the ability to do software to find, if you will, orchestration. >> And we need those people inside the business. >> And the business benefits because there's a talent war going on, and they get to retain them. So, Jon, we do have to go. Thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. >> Absolutely, it's a pleasure as always. >> All right, Dave Vellante for Peter Burris. This is theCUBE. We're live from VMworld 2017 in Las Vegas. We'll be right back. (fast electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. Covering VM World 2017, brought to you by VM Ware, and it's eco system partners. >> Hi everybody, we're back. This is Dave Vellante with Peter Burris and we are here at VM World 2017 in Las Vegas. This is the eighth year of the Cube doing VM World, it started in Moscow and Moscow is under construction. So we're here back in Vegas. Although they've had VM World in Vegas a couple times. Collin Gallagher is here. He's the senior director of product marketing for Hyper Converged Infrastructure at Dell EMC. Collin, great to see you, thanks for coming to the Cube. >> Thanks Dave, thanks for having me. >> So first of all, how's the show going for you? >> Fantastic. Incredibly busy. As you can see, Hyper Converged is the hot thing yet again. I think last year was a big thing. But it's nice to see it's being... Customers are asking about it, you're seeing it in the keynotes. You know, the products being mentioned, Vsan, VXrail, et cetera. And just being swamped and busy and having a little bit of fun as well. >> So before we get into the announcements and we want to do that and give you the opportunity to talk about that, Peter and I and folks in the Cube have been talking all week, really all year. >> Peter: Yeah. >> About how customers are coming to the reality that I can't just reform my business and try to stuff it into the cloud, I really got to understand the realities of my business and bring the cloud model to the extent that I can, to the business. So what role does Hyper Converged play, in that context of bringing the cloud to my business? >> Well, I think Hyper Converged is the technology that allows you to do that. But as you bring out, as you mentioned, you have to also rethink about how you maintain your business, right? Because Hyper Converged consolidates you compute, your storage, your networking into one system. But that means that you may have to think about consolidating your storage teams, your compute teams and your networking teams as well. Right? And if you're going to keep them separate but merge the technology, there's going to be some impedance mismatched there. So Hyper Converged is an enabler for that, but it requires you to transform not just the technology, but also how you manage and staff your business as well. >> So I remember, I guess it was three years ago now, at VM World, you guys made the sort of first announcement of sort of software defined true Hyper Converged product and it's really evolved quite dramatically from then so maybe bring us up to where we are today and talk about some of the announcements that you made. >> Yeah, so... Yes, when Hyper Converged was announced a couple years ago, in a couple different products, but the point I was making a little bit earlier is that Hyper Converged is not just a single product. It's enabling technology. And much like Flash was five to seven year ago, it's going everywhere. >> Peter: It's a design approach. >> It's a design, exactly. >> Yeah, it's a design approach. And you're seeing it in appliances that have been very successful today, you're seeing it in larger rack scale systems, you're seeing it in software only systems, it depends on how and much, as you said, Dave, you want to transform right? You can do some of your build your own Hyper Converged stuff and not transform very much at all. You can do full turn-key cloud built on Hyper Converged, but that's going to require a vast degree of not just infrastructure transformation, but also work force transformation to go with it. >> Now, one of the things we've observed, Collin, and get some feedback from you on this is that... Cause we totally agree. In fact, we wrote a piece of research we called the Iron Triangle of IT and the fact that there is this very tight linking between people with skills, the automation that they use to manage products, that dictate the skills that dictate the automation, and breaking that as well. And a lot of our CIO clients are telling us, that you guy don't understand. The biggest problem I got is getting my people to work differently together. New processes, new approach to doing things. So one of the forcing funtions has been is historically when we think about designing systems to run work loads, we started with the CPU. We sized the CPU and then we did everything else. Now we start thinking about a lot of these data driven, digital oriented kinds of systems. We're thinking about something different. That catalyzed with this enormous performance improvements and storage over the last few year through Flash, vSAN related types of things. What are some of the new design principles that people have to factor as they start thinking about the role that Hyper Converged is going to play? >> So let me play off that. So yes, people design for the CPU because that was the bottle neck, right? Then as CPU performance grew, 5X, 10X, et cetera, they started designing for storage because that became the bottle neck, right? So part of your question is what's going to be the next bottleneck? Right? And I think you just had Chad talking on before. I think the network may be that upcoming bottleneck right now. You know, particularly in the Hyper Converged world where everything is connected through the network. That's your back plan. It's a different approach to storage. So designing around your network capabilities or your network infrastructure, you know, deploying Hyper Converged in a branch office with one GIG is very different than deploying Hyper Converged in a data center with 25 GIG and how you do it. So that's one, but I think Hyper Converged is all about balance in general, right. There's a fixed ratio depending on the product implementation of storage to compute, right? And generally they like to be in the Goldilocks zone, right? Not too much CPU, just... Not too CPU heavy or not too much storage heavy. And I think as Hyper Converged is going more mainstream and more normal, it's pushing those subtle boundaries there. And I think things like flexing out to the cloud when you need additional storage or additional compute capability, is one of those design considerations you need to take into account as you're deploying Hyper Converged because, as you said, you're designing around constraints and there's some physical constraints you have to manage and you have to figure out how you can tap into some of the extra ones. >> So literally it's start with the outcomes, identify the data that's associated with those outcomes, figure out the physical characteristics necessary to apply and process and move that data or not move it. And use that as the starting point for the design considerations. Being very cognitive, going back to what Chad was talking about, that at the end of the day, it's the network that's binding these things and how far out is a protocol going to go, local versus wide area. >> I'm going to steal something that I read on Twitter the other day, that data is the new oil. Alright, and that's how you run your business. And just like how you ship oil to and from, from a well to a refinery, to finally to your gas station pump, you have to think of it, what's your data chain and how you get it and where you need to move it. >> So that's a term that we started using in the Cube in, I don't know, 2010. But what we found is that data is plentiful, but insights aren't. And so you see organizations really spending a lot of time, money, energy, trying to get to those insights, to give them competitive advantage and a new infrastructure emerging to support those. So I wonder, Collin, if you could talk about the portfolio, the products that you sort of look after and tie it into some of the things that you've announced this week. >> Yeah. So I look after our VM or Hyper Converged systems so Vxrail and Vxrack SDDC. You know, both jointly developed with VM Ware. I'm sure you've heard Pat and everybody else talk about them so if you've been watching any of the keynotes. But we also have a much larger portfolio. We have our Vsan ready nodes for customers who want to do it themselves, want to build their own systems. And again, that's, as we talk about degree of transformation, that allows customers to get into the Hyper Converged space, but not significantly transform how they're managing their business. We have the appliances. Obviously our Vxrail systems. So by the way, the news with the Vsan ready nodes is we're announcing them available on the Dell Poweredge 14G Platforms. Those are available now to order. On our Vxrail appliances, and the rest of the portfolio that'll be out on the 14G platform by the end of the year. But what's new with Vxrail, we're announcing Vxrail 4 dot 5, which provides life cycle management orchestration for the latest and greatest VM Ware software stacks. So Vsan, 6 dot 5, Vsan 6 dot 6 Vsphere 6 dot 5. So both of those are out now and available. With all the great goodness that you've seen and heard about them. We're also announcing new configuration options for our Vxrack SDDC platform. So that's our much larger, it's the big brother to Vxrail, fully turn-key, you know, software defined data center infrastructure including NSX, all managed under one umbrella. >> So a higher-end solution? >> It's a much higher-end solution. Much higher for larger... Not necessarily scale because you know, it's not necessarily scale because you can start pretty small. As low as-- >> Peter: But still organized, coherent, well-packaged. >> But you have to, again, if we're talking about degrees of transformation, if you go with an appliance, okay you manage your compute and storage together. If you're going with a rack scale system, your managing the network as part of that as well. So that's another degree of transformation you have to be willing to make. So that's what's really the big difference between the two. New configuration options, up to 40 different hardware configs available now for that so really driven by customer choice. I want lower powered CPU's for certain workloads, I want higher powered CPU's, I want more all Flash choices, so really flush that portfolio out. And then lastly, we're announcing, our EHC and NHC platforms from Dell EMC are available built on Vxrack SDDC as well. >> EHC acronym? >> Collin: Enterprise Hybrid Cloud. >> And? >> Native Hybrid Cloud. EHC and NHC, sorry. Both of those two systems, which had run on our Vblock infrastructure before, are now running on Vxrack SDDC as well. So you get fully turn-key hybrid cloud built on top of an HCI system. >> And when you think of a EHC, Enterprise Hybrid Cloud, and Native Hybrid Cloud, NHC, can you talk about the work loads? That customers should think about putting on each? >> Yeah, so EHC is much more for traditional workloads. For customers who are looking to get into hybrid cloud. Actually, we see a lot of, our number one customer for someone who buys EHC, is they've tried to build cloud on their own and failed. They want something turn-key, they don't want to make the same mistakes again, they have the scars, and they want something easier and simpler than building it themselves. But that is traditional workloads, your traditional data center workloads managed in a cloud environment. NHC, our Native Hybrid Cloud product is for cloud native workloads, it's actually turn-key pivotal systems. So it's PSC based so if you're deploying workloads that will run in pivotal and you want it as a test dev system in house, or you want to run that in house and then migrate it later to the cloud, that's what NHC is for. >> Okay, we got to leave it there. But I'll give you a last word on VM World 2017, cloud, Hyper Converged, a lot of new innovation. What's your bumper sticker, Collin, on the show? >> My bumper sticker is again, HCI is primetime, it's here, I used to say that, customers, when I started this job two years ago would tell me, "tell me why I need HCI?" And what customers are asking me now is, last year was, "tell me how I use HCI?" and this year it's "tell me where I can't use HCI?" So there's been this waterfall shift in how they're looking at doing it. >> Dave: So they like it, they're trying to apply it. >> Peter: What is it? How it works? And what's the impact? >> Dave: And I want to apply it in as many places as possible. Where are my blind spots? >> Yeah, where doesn't it fit? What are the constraints where it doesn't fit? >> Collin Gallagher, thanks so much for coming back in the Cube. >> Oh, my pleasure. Thanks, Dave. >> Keep right there, everybody. We'll be back, this is Dave Vellante. For Peter Burris, this is the Cube. We're live at VM World 2017 and we'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering VMworld 2017 brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE live from VMworld day one, really exciting day that we're having so far. I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host Dave Vellante and we're joined by a CUBE alumni and a new CUBE guest. Welcome back to theCUBE Ruya Barrett, Senior Director of Product Marketing at Dell EMC. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> Good to have you here and we also want to welcome Mark Wiseley, the CIO of Palmer Chiropractic College, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, it's great to be here. >> It's great to have you guys. So one of the things we were talking about before we went live is backup. Is backup back? Is backup sexy again? It's hot, why is backup so hot, Ruya? >> Oh my god, yeah, it is. I started years ago and I was in data protection and got forward 20 years, it's back in data protection. It's hotter than ever. In the last six years, I think there's been over 5 billion dollars invested in this space whether from venture capital or big companies and it's hot because of what's happening in the customer's environment. We see a huge restructuring of data centers. So before data used to be in a couple of locations that we called data center and now it's really much more about centers of data, data is moving out of the four walls, moving closer to where decision making is which is with the business, out in the geos so it's moving to the edge and also just cloud. Cloud is really - and cloud deployments are really reshaping where customer's data is so now that data's no longer in a building. How do you secure it? How do you protect it? Where is it? Who owns it? Those are becoming more and more prevalent questions. So that's why backup is sexier than ever. >> So is that what's - What are the drivers for you in terms of your backup? I mean, what keeps you up at night? You wake up in the morning, what are you thinking about in the backup context? >> Well, for us, you know, it's really about not having to think about it, you know, making sure you've got a solid solution that's there to backup that data and make sure it's available when you need it and where you need it and the Dell EMC product we put in place gave us that opportunity where we can backup our servers, our desktops, our laptops, it doesn't matter whether they're offsite or onsite. They can be anywhere, it gets backed up quickly and it doesn't interfere with what they're doing. Users don't want to be interrupted with a backup and have to sit there and wait for it so it's been a great solution for us. >> So Mark, you've been - You've got over 20 years experience in the industry. You've been a CIO at Palmer for nearly two years now. One of the things that I read about you is that you're attracted to neglected IT systems. I imagine you saw a tremendous amount of opportunity but we talked about kind of bringing sexy back with state of protection but you were instrumental in kind of changing the IT direction at Palmer back to Dell EMC, tell us a little about that and why that was so important to you as the leader of IT there. >> Well, when I came into Palmer, we had a number of different issues. Everything from performance to backup windows that we couldn't hit. We were still using tape backup. There was a number of different issues and so we really needed a platform that would be able to come in and solve all those issues and also do it as quickly as possible so we put in a Dell EMC VxBlock which allowed us to, I kind of look at it as a data center in a box type of thing, I mean it solved our networking issues and our backup issues and then because we have multiple sites, we were able to actually back up our data and replicate it to some of our other data centers across the US so it was just a perfect solution for us and then one of the real nice things is when we actually put that product in Dell EMC came in and helped us to implement it and within three days of them arriving we were actually running production workloads on that system so it worked out great for us. >> You know, that reminds me, so Ruya, I've asked this of some of your colleagues, backup forever has been a bolt on and the VxBlock triggered something in my mind, I remember the original Vblock. I remember it said, oh no, Serves up 5,000 vms and my first thought was how do you back that up? And there wasn't and integrated answer. This is a long, long time ago. There is today. >> Ruya: Yeah, absolutely. >> Maybe talk about the philosophy of backup as a core component of a deployment and what you guys specifically have done there. >> Absolutely, we actually today had a really exciting announcement that would really be under what I would call more of a transformational approach to data protection and really the move that we see is it used to be that backup used to be kind of an afterthought, something that you roll out your applications and you're like oh yeah, we have to protect them and figure out what you're going to do and implement what you need from an infrastructure standpoint. We're really seeing a much more of a move to a source-based data protection so we're building data protection capabilities in directly to the applications so today we announced data protection suite for applications and a whole new version of it which really enables the native UIs that the database administrators are using to protect their own workloads and this source-based data protection is going to be more and more critical especially as data is moving closer and closer to where it's getting created so you need to protect it at the source not in the background, not as an afterthought. We also are seeing convergence which is your question around the VxRail. We have integrated data protection now built into VxRail deployments and we've had it for a couple of years now and this year at Dell EMC World, we introduced IDPA, Integrated Data Protection Appliance. Again, bringing all the components that a customer would need, integrated data protection storage, integrated data protection software, into an appliance model so it's all about simplicity, just making it easier for customers to be able to deploy. >> So Mark, you're obviously a VMware customer and as a VMware customer, your backup has sort of been subservient to the VMware momentum. You remember the ascendancy of VMware totally changed your backup requirement. You get less physical servers, backup was very consumptive of resources so you had to think about that. Fast forward, now this whole cloud world, what are you doing in cloud? How is it effecting your backup strategy, specifically? >> So we're looking at, you know, the cloud is one of the areas where obviously we're exploring opportunities. One of the reasons that we put in the VxBlock and the data domain and the data protection suite was really to set us up to be able to make that transition into the cloud simpler. You know, now we have the tools in place so we can decide when we need to move it to the cloud, what data do you need to move in the cloud, where do we need that data to be and it just gives us lots of opportunities and lots of options so >> So let me take that one step further, let's define cloud a little differently, not just as a place you put data but as I want to bring a model to the data wherever the data lives so it's self-service and it's automation and all those things you associated with cloud maybe bringing that on prem or putting it in the cloud. Is that something that as an IT practitioner, you see as viable or is the cloud no, no, it's in Amazon or Google or some other external location? Are you trying to bring that cloud model to the business? >> Yeah, I think as we look at the cloud, I think a lot of it is just options. Figuring out which option or which model or which provider you're going to utilize both from a cost perspective as well as regulatory compliance pieces come into play so you know as we look at cloud, we look at kind of what we've put on site as kind of a private cloud or a cloud in a box type thing and it just opens up lots of different opportunities for utilizing Amazon or Azure or whatever that is. >> So one of the things that I wanted to ask you Mark is really about, you know, Palmer School of Chiropractor was chartered in 1907. >> Mark: 1897. >> Right and then I think I saw that it was chartered, maybe a different name in the early 1900's. >> Mark: Yep. >> It's been around for a very long time so you know, as we see people moving from virtualization to cloud, we're seeing certifications change, you've seen a lot of evolution in data protection Ruya. What's the evolution from an education perspective or maybe even a cultural perspective at Palmer, an organization that's been around for well over 100 years. What's the shift that you have maybe driven within your IT experts to improve their education to remain at Palmer and to help you attract new talent as technologies evolve? >> Well, I think, you know, one of the reasons that Palmer decided to really look at IT, we're kind of the trusted leader in Chiropractic, the founder of Chiropractic and they really wanted to up their game. We're a higher ed institution so most of our students come from large universities and they're used to a lot of technology and instant on and all these different things and so we really wanted to make sure that we could provide an experience for them that gave them that instant on as well as there's a lot of online experiences after you graduate, you know, there's a lot of CEUs and things that they need to come back for and so we're starting to build some of our online programs to give them the opportunities without them having to come on site for everything so it just opens up a whole world of opportunity. >> I had one last question for you Mark, it's the why Dell EMC question, I mean, you've got a lot of options out there, we've talked about all this investment going in, why Dell EMC? What's attractive to them? And a two part question. What's on their to-do list in your view? >> Well I think the thing with the Dell EMC is it really was the one company that gave us everything that we needed. You know, it gave us that full solution, covered all of our issues, everything from performance with the servers and network and data backups and recovery. It just gave us everything that we needed and it was one solution from one vendor so if we do have support issues, we have one vendor to reach out to. We don't have three different vendors or having vendors fighting with each other. It's one solution, one vendor for support, and it just gave us everything that we needed. >> Excellent. Well, Ruya, I heard you say that at Dell EMC World on theCUBE moving from data centers to centers of data. Pat Gelsinger may have gotten that from you, he said that on stage this morning. >> Ruya: I don't know, you heard it first. >> As things are evolving, we thank you for sharing your insights. It sounds like there's a lot of opportunity. Same thing at Palmer, congratulations on the evolution that you have helped >> Thank you. >> To charter there and we want to thank you both taking the time to chat with Dave and myself this afternoon. >> Ruya: Thank you so much. Nice seeing you guys. >> And for our guests and my co-host Dave Vellante, you're watching theCUBE live from VMworld 2017 day one. Stick around, we'll be right back.