>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of SUSECON Digital brought to you by SUSE. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of SUSECON Digital '20. I'm Stu Miniman and happy to welcome to the program one of SUSE's partners, we have Marc O'Regan, he is the CTO of EMEA for Dell Technologies. Marc, it is great to see you, we all wish, I know when I talked to Melissa Di Donato and the team, everybody was really looking forward to coming to Ireland, but at least we're talking to you in Ireland so thanks so much for joining us. >> Stu, thanks very much for having me. I'm delighted to be here. You know, really looking forward to getting you guys here, unfortunately it wasn't a beaver, once we're all safe and well, great to talk. >> Yeah, absolutely, that's the important thing. Everybody is safe, we've had theCUBE a couple of times in Dublin. I'd actually, you know, circled this one on my calendar 'cause I wanted to get back the Emerald Isle but, Marc, let's talk first, you know, the Dell and SUSE relationship you know, disclaimer, you know, I've got a little bit of background on this. You know, I was the product manager for Linux at a company known as EMC back before Dell bought them, many moons ago, so I know that, you know, Dell and the Dell EMC relationship with SUSE go back a couple of decades, but, you know, bring us into, you know, what your teams are working together and we'll go from there. >> Yeah, sure, Stu, so, quite correct, nearly a two decade long relationship with SUSE and one that we hold very dear to our heart. I think what both organizations have in common is their thirst and will to innovate and we've been doing that with SUSE for 16, 17 years, right back to, you know, SUSE Enterprise Linux sitting on, you know, PowerEdge architecture way, way back in the day into you know, some of the developments and collaborations that we, that we worked through with the SUSE teams. I remember back 2013, 2014 doing a pretty cool program with our then Fluid Cache technology. So, when you look at, you know, OLTP kind of environments, what you want to kind of get away from is the, you know, the read-write, commits and latency that are inherent in those types of environments. So, as you start to build and get more users hitting the, hitting the ecosystem, you need to be able to respond and SUSE has been absolutely, you know, instrumental to helping us build an architecture then with our Fluid Cache technology back in the day, and the SUSE technology sitting around and under that and then of course, in more recent times, really extending that innovation aspiration, I guess, has been absolutely a pleasure to, to watch and to be involved with, see it mature so some of the cool platforms that we're developing with SUSE together it's a, it's pretty neat so I'm, you know, one of those being-- >> So, Marc, yeah, well, you know, bring us up to speed, you know, right in the early days, it was, you know, Linux on the SUSE side, it was, you know, servers and storage from the Dell side, you know, today it's, you know, microservice architectures, cloud native solutions. So, you know, bring us up to speed as to some of the important technologies and obviously, you know, both companies have matured and grown and have a much broader portfolio other than they would have years ago. >> Yeah, for sure, absolutely. So, I mean, what's exciting is when you look at some of the architectures that we are building together, we're building reference architectures. So we're taking this work that we're doing together and we're building edge architectures that are suitable for small, medium, and you know, and large environments. And the common thread that pulls those three architectures together is that they are all enterprise grade architectures. And the architectures are used as frameworks. We don't always expect our customers to use them, you know, by the letter of the law, but they are a framework and, by which they can look to roll out scalable storage solutions. For example, like the Ceph, the SUSE Enterprise Storage solution that we collaborate with and have built such a reference architecture for. So this is, you know, it's built on Ceph architecture under the hood, but, you know, both ourselves and SUSE have brought a level of innovation, you know, into an arena, where you need cost, and you need low latency, and you need those types of things that we spoke about, I guess a moment ago, and into, you know, this new cloud native ecosystem that you just spoke to a few moments ago. So on the cloud native side, we're also heavily collaborating, and near co-engineering with SUSE on their CaaS technologies. So here it's really interesting to look at organizations like SAP and what we're doing with data hub and SAP, it's all part of the intelligent enterprise for SAP. This is where SUSE and Dell Tech together really get, you know, into looking at how we can extract information out of data, different data repositories. You know, you may have Oracle you may have, you know, you may have HDFS, you may have Excel and you're trying to extract data and information from that data, from those different siloed environments and the CaaS technology brings its, you know, its micro, capability to the forum in that regard, our hardware architecture is the perfect fit to, to bring that scalar platform, cloud native platform into the ecosystem. >> So, you know, Marc, you've got the CTO hat on for the European theater there. When we, we've been talking to SUSE, when they talk about their innovation, obviously, the community and open-source is a big piece of what they're doing. You were just walking through some of the cloud native pieces, give us what you're seeing when it comes to, you know, how is Dell helping drive innovation, you know, and how does that connects with what you're doing with partners like SUSE. >> Yeah, well, you know, innovation is massively, massively important. So there's a number of different factors that, you know, make up a very good innovation framework or a good innovation program. And at Dell Tech we happen to have what we believe to be an extraordinarily good innovation framework. And we have a lot of R&D budget assigned to helping innovate and we get the chance to go out and work with SUSE and other partners as well. What SUSE and Dell Tech do really, really well together is bring other partners and other technologies into the mix. And, you know, this allows us to innovate, co-innovate together as part of that framework that I just mentioned. So on the Dell Tech framework, we'll obviously, you know, take technologies, you know, we'll take them, perhaps into the office of the CTO, look at new, you know, emerging tech and look at, you know, more traditional tech, for example, and we will blend those together. And, you know, as part of the process and the innovation process, we generally take a view on some of the partners that we actually want to get involved in that process. And SUSE is very much one of those partners, as a matter of fact, right now, we're doing a couple of things with SUSE, one in the labs in Walldorf in Germany, where we're looking at high availability solution that we're trying to develop and optimize there right now at this point in time. And another good example that I can think of at the moment is looking at how customers are migrating off, you know, older, more traditional platforms, they need to look at the cloud native world, they need look at how they can, platform for success in this cloud native world. And we're looking at how we can get smarter, I guess about migrating them from that, you know, extraordinarily stealthy world that they had been in the past but that needs to get from that stealthy world into an even stealthier scalable world that is, that is cloud native world. >> Yeah, Marc, you talk about customers going through these transformations, I wonder if you can help connect the dots for us as to how these types of solutions fit into customers overall cloud strategies. So, you know, obviously, you know, Dell has broad portfolio, a lot of different pieces that are on the cloud, you know, I know there's a long partnership between Dell and SUSE and like SAP solutions, we've been looking at how those modernize so, you know, where does cloud fit in and we'd love any of kind of the European insights that you can give on that overall cloud discussion. >> Yeah, sure, so, again, ourselves and SUSE go back on, in history, you know, on the cloud platforming side, I mean, we've collaborated on developing a cloud platform in the past as well. So we had an OpenStack platform that we both collaborated on and you know, it was very successful for both of us. Where I'm seeing a lot of the requirement in this multicloud world that we're kind of living in right now, is the ability to be able to build a performant scalable platform that is going to be able to respond in the cloud native ecosystem. And that is going to be able to traverse workloads from on-prem to off-prem and from different cloud platforms with different underlying dependencies there. And that's really the whole aspiration, I guess, of this open cloud ecosystem. How do we get workloads to traverse across, across those types of domain. And the other is bringing the kind of, you know, performance that's expected out of these new workloads that are starting to emerge in the cloud native spaces. And as we start to look to data and extract information from data, we are also looking to do so in an extraordinary, accurate and in an extraordinary performant way and having the right kind of architecture underneath that is absolutely, absolutely essential. So I mentioned, you know, SAP's data hub a little earlier on, that's a really, really good example. As is, a matter of fact, SAP's Leonardo framework so, you know, my background is HPC, right? So, I will always look to how we can possibly architect to get the compute engineering as close to the data sources as possible as we can. And that means having to, in some way get out of these monolithic stacks that we've been used to over the last, you know, for a number of decades into a more horizontally scaled out kind of architecture. That means landing the right architecture into those environments, being able to respond, you know, in a meaningful way that's going to ultimately drive value to users and for the users and for the providers of the services, who are building these type of, these type of ecosystems. Again, you know, as I said, you know, data hub, and some of the work that Dell Tech are doing with the CaaS platform is absolutely, you know, perfectly positioned to address those types of, those types of problems and those types of challenges. On the other side, as I mentioned, the, you know, the story solutions that we're doing with SUSE are really taking off as well. So I was involved in a number of years ago in the Ceph program on the Irish government network and, so these would have been very big. And one of the earliest to be honest, Ceph firm I was involved with probably around five, six years ago, perhaps. And the overlying architecture, funnily enough, was, as you probably have guessed by now was SUSE Enterprise. And here we are today building, you know, entire, entire Ceph scale out storage solutions with SUSE. So yeah, what we're seeing is an open ecosystem, a scalable ecosystem and a performant ecosystem that needs to be able to respond and that's what the partnership with SUSE is actually bringing. >> So, Marc, I guess the last thing I'd like to ask you is, you know, we're all dealing with the, the ripple effects of what are happening with the COVID-19 global pandemic. >> Sure. >> You know, I know I've seen online lots that Dell is doing, I'm wondering what is the impact that, you know, you're seeing and anything specific regarding, you know, how this impact partnerships and how, you know, tech communities come together in these challenging times? >> Yeah, that's a great question to end on, Stu. And I think it's times like we're living through at the moment when we see, you know, the real potential of, I guess of human and machine collaboration when you think of the industry we're in, when you think of some of the problems that we're trying to solve. Here we are, a global pandemic, we have a problem that's distributed by its very nature, and I'm trying to find patterns, I guess, I'm trying to model, you know, for the treatment of, you know, COVID-19 is something that's very, very close to our heart. So we're doing a lot on the technology side where we're looking to, as I said, model for treatment but also use distributed analytical architectures to collaborate with partners in order to be able to, you know, contribute to the effort of finding treatments for COVID-19. On the commercial side of things then Dell Tech are doing a huge amount so, you know, we're, for instance, we're designing a, we're designing a financial model or framework, if you will, where our customers and our partners have, you know, can take our infrastructure and our partners infrastructure and those collaborations that we spoke about today. And they can land them into their ecosystem with pretty much zero percent finance. And so it's kind of a, it's an opportunity where, you know, we're taking the technology and we're taking the capability to land that technology into these ecosystems at a very, very low cost, but also give organizations the breadth and opportunity to consume those technologies without having to worry about, you know, ultimately paying up front they can start to look at the financial model that will suit them and that will, that will, that will, hopefully, accelerate their time, their time to market, trying to solve some of these problem that we've been speaking about. >> Well, Marc, thank you so much for the updates. Definitely good to hear about the technology pieces as well as some of these impacts that will have a more global impact. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Stu, my pleasure. Thank you, take care and stay safe. >> Thanks, same to you. All right, I'm Stu Miniman, back with lots more covered from SUSECON Digital '20. Thank you, for always, for watching theCUBE. (gentle music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Adobe Summit 2019. Brought to you by Accenture Interactive. >> Welcome back everyone to our live coverage, CUBE coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit 2019. I'm John Furrier, my cohost Jeff Frick, our next guest Mishel Justesen, Group Manager, Dynamics 365 and Marketing Technology at Avanade. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. >> So we were just talking before you came on camera that you're in charge of Global Marketing Practice for Avanade. >> Yeah, so I'm what you called a Global Marketing COP Lead at Avanade and so basically what that means is I'm in charge of our marketing technology community, our marketing technology community at Avanade. >> A lot of relationships forming in the industry, a lot of discussions around open data, open APIs. How has the landscape shifted in the marketing technology realm over the past three years? Because you're seeing a lot of cloud computing like vibe going on, you're seeing agility, real time, AI themes kind of creeping into content development marketing. >> Yes, yes. >> It's changed a lot, how do you see it? >> It has changed a lot and I've been in the marketing technology industry before Marketing Technologist even existed. So I've seen a lot of change and I think the thing that I'm most excited about is the way I'm looking at things right now is as a Marketing Technologist, you don't have to integrate anything anymore. You can put your data in the cloud and marketers have a specific need for a specific type of data, right? So I don't have to integrate my marketing technology anymore, I can put that data in the cloud, I can enable it with some AI, and then I can send it wherever I need to go. >> So data's been the big flashpoint, in terms of inflection point and changing the direction of the industry, it's how people are handling their data and the thinking around it almost is from an architecture standpoint or use cases. What are the key trends there around the data? What are the big moving parts? >> Well, I mean one of the things that's always a pain point for marketers is all of those data silos that happen from all the different marketing tools that you'll have to use, right? So it's painful, so how do you report on that, what do you do, right? So what I really love is I love seeing how as markers, we can now put data into a single source of truth, along with all the other data that we can use to enable our reporting. For me, as a marketer, I've always wanted to be able to get access to my ERP data so I can really see the ROI on my campaigns and how they're actually doing. And if I can marry that up with the sales data as well and I can pull all that data from one place, I'm a happy camper. >> I got to ask you about being a marketing technologist because also we've been doing theCUBEs, our tenth year, covering thousands of events we've done over the years. First time ever, someone yesterday came on, a guest, and their title was Marketing CIO. >> Wow, that's fabulous. >> And we think that's going to be a big spring but it brings up the conversation of what does IT do, what does systems people do, because the notion of systems and data is not so much just in IT, information technology department problem or opportunity. There's new roles changing and coming together. How do you, what's your take on-- >> I thought you were going to ask me hard questions, this is an easy one, right? (chuckling) >> We'll get to the hard ones later. >> Okay good, so what I've found is really interesting is the transformation of the IT department versus the Marketing IT department, right? So IT has always spoken a certain language, right? But marketing and the marketing lingo, it requires a certain amount of expertise and when you have marketing technology you need to understand the lingo of marketing and what type of data and what kind of strategies to go after. You can't expect an IT department to understand that. So that's why you're seeing a Marketing CIO, because they speak the language of technology, right, Marketing Technologists, marketing technology, and they understand how to implement that technology. So that's where there's a nice shift in that going on, I love to hear this. >> Okay so now the hard question. >> Okay. >> So all the people that are here with Adobe, Adobe's got an ecosystem, you're in it, Accenture Interactive, everyone else, they're out there to try to sell services and products and experiences to the customer, the consumer, or B to B brands. Who's their buyer now? Who actually, who are they selling to? Is the personas the same, who is the person who writes the checks and makes the decision? >> The CMO. >> CMO? >> The Marketing CIO, right? (John laughing) I actually look at that from a different angle, personally. What I am after is actually the marketing team, right? So of course as marketers we understand what the customer journey is, right? And we have to be able to, as marketers, I'm putting myself in that persona of course, right? As marketers we have to make sure that we can get to those potential customers, right? But one thing that I'd like to just bring up, if I may, is that I'm more concerned about how does the marketer get their job done, right? So for me, at Avanade, I'm super excited about how I can help them get their job done better. So there's two markets there now. >> Yeah, yeah, and the roles are changing radically-- >> They totally do. >> You're seeing a lot of new things happening. >> So Mishel, curious to get your take, you've been at this for a while, how things have changed from kind of everything lining up in a funnel type situation to get to the sale, to now the sale is just part of an ongoing relationship-- >> It's a part of an ongoing experience-- >> That people are trying to establish so how does that change kind of the things that marketers need to think about, the KPIs that they need to measure beyond simply correlating a campaign back to the ERP system to see if they got a good ROI on that effort? >> Well, I think what's really exciting about marketing now is that we have a bigger seat at the table, right, at that table for the business. And with the ability to report and really show the value of what we do, we're not just top of the funnel. Traditionally what happens is we can do all the work we do to brings leads into a sales ecosystem and then we're like okay there you go. Sales, do what you need to do, right? We don't have to stop there anymore. We can help with the entire sales process. And once that sales process is done and we have a customer, we can continue to help the business engage with that customer. So we're part of the entire journey. >> Right, and I'm curious too, your take, which I think is driven a lot by mobile where your touch points are shorter but more frequent, right, more diverse but a lot more of them, all different stages of that funnel. Cause they can get a lot of information on their own. So how has that kind of changed from a marketer perspective, how to think about content, how to think about that journey, not just as a simple funnel that drives to a transaction. >> Yeah, our jobs are not easy anymore. Yeah, we really have to be more strategic as marketers. So what's interesting about that is across that entire journey, we have to somehow be able to provide an experience in the moment, right? And the good news is, is that we have lots of marketing technology that can help us do that, right? It requires a lot of data, it requires a lot of engagement, and then being able to ingest that information and react to it as close to real time a we can is, I think it's a huge challenge, but that's what we have to be ready for. >> One of the things we heard from a lot of the practitioners that come on, customers of Adobe, and the ecosystem is getting more diverse data so they can get the blind spots identified, where they think they don't have any visibility and the-- >> The white space? >> In the white space, well they don't have enough, well they don't know what's going on. So what they were mentioning was is that okay funnel's great but they're going into this other journey past non-linear progressions, new-organic or in other channels and they want to try to identify what's going on there. So they need to instrument it, right? >> Yeah. So the challenging is how do I get that silo data that might be somewhere else? Or if it's new data, new first-party data, or third-party data, getting more data exposed into these new progressions is a real challenge. >> It is. And they want to keep iterating on it. So that seems to come up a lot. What's your reaction to that and how does this new kind of, let's say horizontal or horizontally scalable experience users are having? How do you guys view that? >> Well I, again I would love as a marketer to have access to all my data in one place, right? And not just my data, cause we have, marketers have special data, right? I would like to make sure I have all my data in one place. So, adjure, put it in the cloud on my data service, right? Put it there for me so I can then enable it, I can start throwing some AI at it so that I can have AI working for me, right? So I can help-- >> Talk about that dynamic, take a minute to explain why it's important to put the data in the cloud, because there's benefits to that-- >> Sure. >> You were mentioning earlier in the interview. Why is it important? Just take a minute to explain why it's important to put the data in the cloud. >> Well, because it gets rid of the data silos that you have, right? So if you can put your data in one place and then pull it into the systems, just the amount of data you need you can get to it in bite size pieces, right? So let me just inform the sales team with the information that just they need, right? And for the marketing team, let me give them just the data they care about, right? Cause it's very different. But if we have all of that in the same place then we can pull it in wherever we need it. >> Talk about your business and how you guys are doing in marketing. What's going on in the global landscape? What are some of the big trends that you're seeing? What wave are you riding? What's the big business benefits you guys are going after right now? >> Well right now at Avanade, we're really focused on this Adobe and Microsoft partnership. Right, for me, it's a really exciting time to be a marketer because well, to be a Marketing Technologist, to be at Avanade and helping with this whole new partnership. We now have the power of a whole marketing experience platform, Adobe experience platform, right, and the partnership with Microsoft and we can bring these two platforms together, right so-- >> And LinkedIn too, although technically Microsoft-- >> And LinkedIn, yeah. >> Still part of Microsoft, but you got the Dynamics 365 and LinkedIn which are kind of different groups, right? But still Microsoft. >> Yeah. Yeah and LinkedIn's a great example too. So LinkedIn has two places for marketers and sales to work. So marketers can do the LinkedIn lead gen, right? And then Sales can look at the LinkedIn profiles and the company profiles right on that lead record on Dynamics 365, right? So Marketing and Sales can work together. I can bring the leads in as a marketer and a sales person, and I can look at that lead on LinkedIn. So that's super exciting. >> What content types do you see as working, obviously videos, hot right now. I was just at the RSH Show, Jeff and I were there. We saw, everyone's doing videos from video blogging to full sets. Obviously we're streaming here. Video seems to be a hot format. >> What are, what other-- >> Video has been a hot format forever, I mean YouTube came into existence and all of a sudden you've got citizen videographers, right? And then you can put content out there like crazy. I see that it's still a very relevant platform but I personally would like to see how we can use AI to start targeting content to people who are doing some sort of activity online, it doesn't matter where you're at, to engage them, right? >> I think the machine learning is a big point for the AI. And you mentioned earlier, you don't have to worry about connecting stuff and I think if you look at the experience platform that they announced yesterday, they have all these connectors on the sides of their architecture cause that's where you guys are also connecting in, right, This is where you guys see that automation happening. >> Yes, yes. >> Is that what you meant by auto-integrating? >> Yes, exactly, yeah so as someone that builds marketing technology stacks, right, using Dynamics 365 as the hub of that, one of the biggest pain points back in the day, as in a couple years ago, right, was does this integrate with my CRM? Because that's a pain point, how am I going to integrate? I don't have to worry about that anymore, right? Again, going back to putting data in the cloud, I don't have to integrate technology directly into D365 anymore, right, and that-- >> What's the table stakes in the mar-tech stack, what's changed on the table stakes because it's funny as evolution comes, these new capabilities become table stakes like integration. You can't integrate, you're out. What new things are going on in the marketing technology field that was an exception or a luxury just a few months ago or years ago that are now table stakes for marketers? >> Table stakes in the marketing technology landscape, I think Adobe is really, let me shamelessly plug that cause I'm so excited about it, right, Adobe's really a leader in that. So how do you take an entire marketing technology platform, right, and it's not just, it's email marketing, it's your web space, it's your whatever other tool you have, right in your marketing technology stack. How do you aggregate them together in a way that makes sense for the marketer to use. So I think what you're going to see is things need to be really easy for the marketers to use on their own, right? Sometimes you need developers to do a lot of things, right? These pieces of technology can be really tech heavy in that respect, and I think you're going to see a lot of drag and drop capability, let's enable the marketer, the citizen marketer as I like to call them, to actually build what they need more on the fly. And you're seeing that a lot right now-- >> Well it's funny-- >> Marketo's very similar like that. >> Cause when you said the good news is the marketers have all these tools, I thought you were then going to say and the bad news is the marketers have all these tools. (John laughing) >> That's so true, yeah. >> Cause there's so many of them, right? >> There's such a, I know, influx of possibility, right? >> Right, so to have an integrated platform that pulls a lot of the core pieces together, you don't necessarily have to worry about the laundry list of potential tools that you might-- >> Exactly, exactly. >> That you might leverage. Already pre-integrated, ready to roll, super. Final thoughts on seeing the Satya on stage, that's got to help your enthusiasm for the partnership. >> 100%. (John and Jeff laughing) >> Good. >> I'm super happy to be here and I'm a huge advocate of the partnership so I'm really excited to see this happening. >> I think Adobe's done a great job. We're tough customers to please in terms of the tech but on the cloud side, the way they laid it out. The got all the things we think right, the first party-- >> Yeah, it's brilliant. >> Module, the data pipe lining and semantics was those are two, I think, beautiful architectural pieces. >> I agree. >> I think it's going to be, if they can get this thing automated and getting going, no more integration-- >> Thank you for making my life easier. (all laughing) I know, right? >> We'll see some acceleration on your end, with technologists. >> Yes, yup, I'll help, I'm here. >> Mishel, thank you for sharing the data and insights on theCUBE. >> Of course. >> Thanks. >> Of course. >> Great insights here on theCUBE, Adobe Summit, I'm John Furrier, Jeff Frick, stay with us for more Day Two coverage after this short break. (techno music)

. >>Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff, Rick here with the cube Worthen Nevada museum of art in Reno, Nevada for the Interbike show. Just happening down the street at the convention center. But we're actually at a side of it put on by Royal Dutch, a gazelle bikes, 125 year old, a bike company who is all in on electric bikes. We wanted to come in, see what's going on, really how the e-bike phenomenon is kind of intermingling with all these alternative scooters and, and all these alternative ways of getting around cities especially and, and get a feel for it. So we're excited to have a retailer who's been in the business for a long time. He's Davey oil. He is a founder a and, and cone or of GNO family. Cyclery David. Great. See you. Thanks. It's really happy to be here. Yeah. So first off, uh, just impressions of this event tonight. Um, cause I was rolling eyes. There's six or seven new bikes out here tonight. What do you think? >>It's very exciting because that was an extremely high quality brand of electric bicycle. And like you said, they have a uh, like a very long history in, in bicycle design. Right. And what they're doing now is they're, they're riding this wave of new technology that's coming through e-bikes and it's phenomenal. It's so funny cause >>some of these things I was talking about earlier, you know, so many Kickstarters, right, that have started and actually a lot of the companies have been pretty successful on the Kickstarter basis, but this is an old line company. They'd been making these things, I think I heard earlier, they're still making them at the same factory that they've been making them for 125 years. And surprisingly to me a third of this year's bike sales will be eBikes. So clearly there's something going on here. Yeah, there is that. What do you think in terms of the adoption Seattle, cause what I've heard as well is that the U S is about 10 years behind >>and Kennedy bike adoption. Yeah. I think that's probably the case in Seattle. We're very fortunate that there are a lot of factors at play that are, that are driving your bike adoption a happening a little faster than it is in some other parts of the country. But I think that all around the country and in cities and suburbs and also in rural areas, people are gonna find that adding an electric mobility to your bicycle, it takes away the barriers to cycling that so many people experienced that are totally rational. Like when I arrived at my destination, I don't want to be sweaty or I want to be able to use a bicycle, but I want to be able to carry more things or my children. Right. And when you add the mobility to your bicycle, those kind of barriers are just eliminated. You can see you're still getting exercise, but you can choose to make the bicycle ride more of what you'd expect from other forms of transportation, which is convenient and not sweaty and difficult. >>So how many of your customers aren't really bicyclists that that they're coming at this as a, as kind of a new opportunity? Maybe they just, they cycled before, but they're not kind of hardcore cyclists. You see this as the right foot. What's amazing to me is you have all these form factors, but this is a form factor that people are very familiar with and that's where I think there's a real opportunity bike that's not the same as scooters and some of these other things. Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, what we experience is that probably two thirds of our customers don't previously identified themselves as bicyclists. Um, they're probably somewhat friendly with the idea bicycles so they wouldn't have walked into a bicycle store. But what we see is that that transformation that happens to people when they adopt cycling as a, as a major part of their life and a major part of their transportation that still occurs, but it occurs all at once when they leapfrog over so many of these barriers and just have the opportunity to use a bicycle so much more than they would have otherwise. And the same thing happens to people who are already interested in cycling. People who only ride recreationally often find that with the addition of any bike into their life, they can use a bicycle for many, many, or most of their transportation needs, uh, over the course of their life. And that's profound, right. Transforms people. >>So there's a lot of special kind of characteristics of Seattle. Yeah. Obviously the weather is not great. Of course it's not great in, in Holland either. And they got a lot of bikes. They're got Hills and bridges and some nasty traffic. Not that everybody else does them, Massey traveling, but Seattle's got some crazy traffic. So you guys are seeing not only the adoption of the bikes for commuting and for fun and all those things, but you're selling a lot of cargo bikes for commercial purposes in this tight urban center. So I wonder if you can give us a little bit more color on how you're seeing the penetration in cargo bikes. Sure. >>Well, I think that cargo bikes when used for like freight purposes and delivery purposes and enterprise purposes in general, they benefit from the same things that bicyclists benefit from in urban environments in general, which is just greater mobility, freedom from the restrictions of traffic. I'm not trying to say that bicycles aren't on the road and that they don't sometimes find themselves behind a long line of stopped cars, but we have so much more flexibility in those situations and we can park safely and reasonably on a sidewalk. And so, so many things that happen, uh, that people suffer through due to congestion or alleviated when they're riding a bicycle in general. And business has experienced that when they use them for freight for sure. >>And it's not just a cargo bike, it's any cargo bikes. So now I've got the superhuman skills so I can, I can carry that load. I can replace a truck. I mean we have, we have bicycles in operation in Seattle for some, some of our customers use that. Our daily carrying 400 500 pounds of weight in there and they're traveling, you know, 60 70 miles in a day. Right. So how are you seeing the integration of the eBikes with the regular bikes, the hardcore bikers, the recreational bikers, and then of course you've got the slow move in pedestrians, right? And the, the dangerous stuff occurs when you've got all these disparity in, in, in velocity. And it's going to be interesting to see kind of how the regs kind of catch up and eventually probably, you know, discriminate. So these PO, these paths are for, you know, 20 miles or more of these paths are for, you know, 10 miles an hour or less. So how are you seeing that kind of work itself out in the streets of the city? Cause absolutely get a little rough sometimes out there. I think it has the potential to get a little rough. I think that honestly, um, yeah, >>the situation, the opportunities for conflict between pedestrians and electric bicyclists is not an issue or not any more significant than the opportunities for conflict between pedestrians and conventional bicyclists. I think that while an electric bicycle can travel up to 20 miles an hour or in some cases faster, they don't ordinarily travel that fast. That's a peak speed. Um, and so I don't really think that sidewalks are being menaced by electric bicyclists. I don't think that's really occurring, although I do think that the kind of regulations that you're talking about that classify type II bikes into types so that we can then, um, uh, empower people who have jurisdiction over different pieces of infrastructure to, um, to determine for themselves and for their users what bikes are allowed in which ones are, are, are forbidden, um, or restricted. I think that's really positive. Right? I think it's extremely important that we define what these vehicle types are because of course there are some vehicles which are more appropriate for some environments than others. >>Right. But I think the real thing is that bicyclists and III bicyclists are not the enemy of pedestrians. I think that together we're all making smart choices and we're in the safe spot. And I think that if it feels like there's too many bicycles on the sidewalk in your town, it's probably because you haven't made any room for bicyclists in the streets of your town. Right. And I think we all need to work together to make cycling a safe and viable option across all of our communities that will help congestion when we remove people from cars, we improve traffic for everybody. >>Right, right. And bikes should not be on sidewalks, period. Right. That's not really not the bike, not the bike place unless the, the street is just so, so tragic. >>I think. I think that if you're talking about it in a situational like daily life active, uh, situation, I think, um, there are a lot of conditions where bicycles are going to be on the sidewalk and there are many of them that I think are reasonable. I think it's totally reasonable to decide as a city we don't want bicycles, bicycles to primarily ride on sidewalks or when bicycles are on sidewalks. I don't think there's any city in the country that allows bicycles on sidewalks. It doesn't also stipulate as long as they're traveling safely. So if somebody has a problem with how somebody is behaving, that's still a problem either way. >>Right, right, right. So I'm just curious to get your take as, as you've seen this market evolved. Again, we've got big players involved. Bosch is doing all the, all the electronics on these bikes. Yeah. Capacity's got bigger on the battery speeds have gotten better. Dependability. Yeah. So how are you seeing kind of the evolution of the eBikes impacting the total market for bikes? Again, I can't believe that that gives out. Guys said they're going to sell a third of their bikes. Are e-bikes. Yeah. You see in the same thing in your business. >>Yeah. Well, I mean my business is focused on eBikes. Um, but what I will say is that I think that um, one of the challenges for bicycle advocacy and bicycle marketing and retail has always been a how to appeal to people who are somewhat friendly towards bicycling but aren't doing it that called interested but concerned. And it, I think it turns out that e-bikes are the key here, that we can help transform people from someone who is friendly towards bicycling to somebody who uses a bicycle as a big part of their life simply by making bicycles easier. And as you identified right now, finally, we're at a point in the development of this technology where the bikes really are reliable as a vehicle. And that's significant, right? It's not just a hobbyist activity at this point. These are, these are legitimate, uh, reliable vehicles >>in transportation. I mean, legitimate trans, it's not just your last mile vehicle anyway. >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, at our shop at least we're talking about people who are, who have given up a car. Um, almost almost every one of our customers who's getting an electric cargo bag is doing this as part of their family transportation budget. And that includes driving less or removing a car from their life, right? And that could only work if the e-bike was at least as reliable as driving lists. And so maybe a flat tire is still a pretty annoying problem, but that should be the worst problem. Right? And I think we're finally there in terms of the quality of technology that's out >>and now it's only upward. We're like at year zero now. Right. Amazing. Even with the weather and the Hills and everything else, it's profound, man. It's really, and then it's a, it's a cultural shift, so it's just, it's just spreads across our community. Right. One person who inspires somebody else and inspires somebody else. Well, David, thanks for taking a few minutes and sharing your story. Really appreciate it. Thank you very much. All right. He's Dave young. Jeff. We are at Interbike Reno, but we're actually at the gazelle, uh, event looking at their e-bikes and they're really, really cool. Thanks for watching. Catch you next time.

>> Narrator: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering Microsoft Ignite. Brought to you by, Cohesity. >> Good morning everyone and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite. We are here in the Orange County Convention Center. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with Stu Miniman. Stu, this is Microsoft's Big Show. 26,000 people from around the globe, all descending on Orlando. This is the big infrastructure show. Thoughts, impressions, now that we're on day two of a three day show. >> Yeah, Rebecca. Last year I had this feeling that it was a little bit too much talking about the Windows 10 transition and the latest updates to Office 365. I could certainly want to make sure that we really dug in more to what's going on with Azure, what's happening in 6the developer space. Even though they do have a separate show for developers, it's Microsoft build. They actually have a huge partner show. And so, Microsoft has a lot of shows. So it's, what is this show that is decades old? And really it is the combination of Microsoft as a platform today. Satya Nadella yesterday talked about empowering the world. This morning, Scott Hanselman was in a smaller theater, talking about app devs. And he came out and he's like, "Hey, developers, isn't it a little bit early for you this morning?" Everybody's laughing. He said, "Even though we're kicking off at 9:00 a.m., Eastern." He said, "That's really early, especially for anybody coming from the West Coast." He was wearing his Will Code For Tacos shirt. And we're going to have Scott on later today, so we'll talk about that. But, where does Microsoft sit in this landscape? Is something we've had. I spent a lot of time looking at the cloud marketplace. Microsoft has put themselves as the clear number two behind AWS. But trying to figure out because SaaS is a big piece of what Microsoft does. And they have their software estate in their customer relationship. So how many of those that are what we used to call window shops. And you had Windows people are going to start, Will it be .NET? Will it be other operating systems? Will it come into Azure? Where do they play? And the answer is, Microsoft's going to play a lot of places. And what was really kind of put on with the point yesterday is, it's not just about the Microsoft solutions, it is about the ecosystem, they really haven't embraced their role, very supportive of open source. And trust is something that I know both you and I have been pointing in on because, in the big tech market, Microsoft wants to stand up and say, "We are the most trusted out there. And therefore, turn to us and we will help you through all of these journeys." >> So you're bringing up so many great points and I want to now go through each and every one of them. So, absolutely, we are hearing that this is the kinder, gentler Microsoft, we had Dave Totten on yesterday. And he was, as you just described, just talking about how much Microsoft is embracing and supporting customers who are using a little bit of Microsoft here, a little bit of other companies. I'm not going to name names, but they're seemingly demanding. I just want best to breed, and this is what I'm going to do. And Microsoft is supporting that, championing that. And, of course we're seeing this as a trend in the broader technology industry. However, it feels different, because it's Microsoft doing this. And they've been so proprietary in the past. >> Yeah, well, and Rebecca, it's our job on theCUBE actually, I'm going to name names. (laughs) And actually Microsoft is-- >> Okay. >> Embracing of this. So, the thing I'm most interested in at the show was Azure Arc. And I was trying to figure out, is this a management platform? And at the end of the day really, it is, there's Kubernetes in there, and it's specifically tied to applications. So they're going to start with databases specifically. My understanding, SQL is the first piece and saying, it sounds almost like the next incarnation of platform as a service to our past. And say, I can take this, I can put it on premises in Azure or on AWS. Any of those environments, manage all of them the same. Reminds me of what I hear from VMware with Hangzhou. Vmworld, Europe is going on right now in Barcelona. Big announcement is to the relationship with VMware on Azure. If I got it right, it's actually in beta now. So, Arc being announced and the next step of where Microsoft and VMware are going together, it is not a coincidence. They are not severing the ties with VMware. VMware, of course partners with all the cloud providers, most notably AWS. Dave Totten yesterday, talked about Red Hat. You want Kubernetes? If you want OpenShift, if you are a Red Hat customer and you've decided that, the way I'm going to leverage and use and have my applications run, are through OpenShift, Microsoft's is great. And the best, most secure place to run that environment is on Azure. So, that's great. So Microsoft, when you talk about choice, when you talk about flexibility, and you talk about agility cause, it is kinder and gentler, but Satya said they have that tech intensity. So all the latest and greatest, the new things that you want, you can get it from Microsoft, but they are also going to meet you where you are. That was Jeremiah Dooley, the Azure advocate, said that, "There's, lots of bridges we need to make, Microsoft has lots of teams. It's not just the DevOps, it's not just letting the old people do their own thing, from your virtualization through your containerization and everything in between microservices server list, and the like. Microsoft has teams, they have partners. Sure that you could buy everything in Microsoft, but they know that there are lots of partners and pieces. And between their partners, their ecosystem, their channel, and their go-to-market, they're going to pull this together to help you leverage what you need to move your business forward. >> So, next I want to talk about Scott Hanselman who was up on the main stage, we're going to have him on the show and he was as you said, adorned in coder dude, attire with a cool t-shirt and snappy kicks. But his talk was app development for everyone. And this is really Microsoft's big push, democratizing computing, hey, anyone can do this. And Satya Nadella, as we've talked about on the show. 61% of technologist's jobs are not in the technology industry. So this is something that Microsoft sees as a trend that's happening in the employment market. So they're saying, "Hey, we're going to help you out here." But Microsoft is not a hardware company. So how does this really change things for Microsoft in terms of the products and services-- >> Well right, >> It offers. >> So really what we're talking about here, we're talking about developers right? 61% of jobs openings for developers are outside the tech sector. And the high level message that Scott had is your tools, your language, your apps. And what we have is, just as we were talking about choice of clouds, it's choice of languages. Sure they'd love to say .NET is wonderful, but you want your Java, your PHP, all of these options. And chances are, not only are you going to use many of them, but even if you're working on a total solution, different groups inside your company might be using them and therefore you need tools that can spam them. The interesting example they use was Chipotle. And if there's a difference between when you're ordering and going through the delivery service, and some of the back-end pieces, and data needs to flow between them, and it can't be, "Oh wait, I've got silos of my data, I've got silos of all these other environments." So, developer tools are all about, having the company just work faster and work across environments. I was at AnsibleFest show earlier this year. And, Ansible is one of those tools that actually, different roles where you have to have the product owner, the developer, or the the operations person. They all have their way into that tool. And so, Microsoft's showing some very similar things as to, when I build something, it's not, "Oh, wait, we all chose this language." And so many of the tools was, " Okay, well, I had to standardize on something." But that didn't fit into what the organization needed. So I need to be able to get to what they all had. Just like eventually, when I'm picking my own taco, I can roll it, bowl it, soft or hard shell-- >> It was a cool analogy. >> And choose all my toppings in there. So it is Taco Tuesday here-- >> Yes. >> At Microsoft Ignite and the developers like their choices of tools, just like they like their tacos. >> And they like their extra guac. So going back to one of the other points you made at the very opening. And this is the competitive dynamic that we have here. We had David Davis and Scott Lowe on yesterday from a ActualTech Media. Scott was incredibly bullish about Microsoft. And saying it could really overtake AWS, not tomorrow, but within the next decade. Of course, the choice for JEDI certainly could accelerate that. What do you make of it? I mean, do you think that's still pie in the sky here? AWS is so far ahead. >> So look, first of all, when you look at the growth rates, first of all, just to take the actual number, we know what AWS's, revenue is. Last quarter, AWS did $9 billion. And they're still growing at about a 35% clip. When I look at Microsoft, they have their intelligent cloud bucket, which is Azure, Windows Server, SQL Server and GitHub. And that was 10.8 billion. And you say, "Oh, okay, that's really big." But last year, Azure did about $12 billion dollars. So, AWS is still two to three times larger when you look at infrastructure as a service. But SaaS hugely important piece of what's going on in the cloud opportunity. AWS really is more of the platform and infrastructure service, they absolutely have some of the PaaS pieces. Azure started out as PaaS and has this. So you're trying to count these buckets, and Azure is still growing at, last quarter was 64%. So if you look at the projection, is it possible for Azure to catch up in the next three years? Well, Azure's growth rate is also slowing down, so I don't think it matters that much. There is a number one and a number two, and they're both clear, valid choices for a customer. And, this morning at breakfast, I was talking to a customer and they are very heavily on Microsoft shop. But absolutely, they've got some AWS on the side. They're doing Azure, they've got a lot of Azure, being here at our Microsoft show. And when I go to AWS, even when I talked to the companies that are all in on AWS, " Oh, you got O 365?" "Of course we do." "Oh, if you're starting to do O 365, are there any other services that you might be using out of Azure?" "Yeah, that's possible." I know Google is in the mix. Ali Baba's in the mix. Oracle, well, we're not going to talk about Oracle Cloud, but we talked about Oracle, because they will allow their services to run on Azure specifically. We talked about that a lot yesterday, especially how that ties into JEDI. So, look, I think it is great when we have a healthy competitive marketplace. Today really, it is a two horse race. It is, AWS and Azure are the main choices for customers. Everyone else is really a niche player. Even a company like IBM, there's good solutions that they have, but they play in a multi cloud world. Google has some great data services, and absolutely a important player when you talk about multi cloud for all they've done with Kubernetes and Istio. I'm going to be at Kube Con in a couple of weeks and Google is front and center there. But if you talk about the general marketplace, Microsoft has a lot of customers, they had a lot of applications and therefore, can they continue to mature that market and grow their environment? Absolutely. AWS has so many customers, they have the marketplace is stronger. It's an area that I want to dig in a little bit more at this show is the Azure Marketplace, how much we talked about the ecosystem. But, can I just procure through the cloud and make it simpler? Big theme we've talked about is, cloud in the early days was supposed to be cheap and simple. And it is neither of those things. So, how do we make it easier, so that we can go from the 20% of applications in the public cloud, up to 50% or more? Because it is not about all everything goes to the public cloud, but making customers put the applications and their data in the right place at the right time with the right services. And then we haven't even talked about edge computing which Microsoft has a big push on, especially with their partners. We talked to HP, a little bit about that yesterday. But really the surface area that this show and Microsoft covers is immense and global. >> It is indeed, and we are going, this is our second day of three days of coverage and we're going to be getting into all of those things. We've got a lot of great guests. We have Cute Host, Keith Townsend, Dave Cahill, a former Wikibon guy, a lot of other fantastic people. So I'm excited to get it on with you today, Stu. >> Thank you, Rebecca. Great stuff. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Stu Miniman. Stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite. (upbeat music`)

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, It's the Cube! Covering VM World 2019 Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners >> Hello everyone and welcome to the Cube's coverage here in San Francisco, California of the VMWorld 2019. I'm John Furrier with my cohost Dave Vellante Dave, 10 years covering VMWorld since 2010, it's been quite a ride, lot of changes. >> Dave: Sure has. >> John: We're going to do a Power Panel our format we normally do it remote guests in our Palo Alto and Boston studios in person because we're here. Why not do it? Of course, Keith Townsend, CTO Advisor friend of the Cube, Cube host sometimes and Sarbjeet Johal, cloud architect cloud expert, friends on Twitter. We're always jammin' on Twitter. So we'll have to take it to the video. Guys, thanks for joining us on the Power Panel. >> Good to see you, Gents. >> Good seein' ya. >> Good to be here. >> Yeah, I, I hope we don't come to blows, Sarbjeet. I mean we've had some passionate conversations over the past couple months. >> Yeah, Santoro, yes, yes. >> John: The activity has been at an all time high. I mean, snark aside, there's real things to talk about. >> Yes. >> I mean we are talking about VMware a software company, staying with their roots. We know what happened in 2016 The Amazon relationship cleared the air so to speak, pun intended. Vcloud air kind of goes it's way stock prices go up and to the right Yeah, fluctuations happening but still financially doing well. >> Keith: Yeah. >> Customers have clarity. They're an operate. They run, they target operators not developers. We're living in a DevOps world we talk about this all the time dev and ops this is the cloud world that they want Michael Dell was on the Cube Dell Technologies owns VMware they put Pivotal on VMware moves are being made. Keith, how do you make sense of it? What's your take? You've been on the inside. >> Well, you know, VMware has a tough time. Pat came in, 2013, we remember it. He said we are going to double down on virtualization. He is literally paying the cost for that hockey stick movement VMware has had this reputation of being an operator based company Infrastructure based, you go into accounts, you're stuck in this IT Infrastructure cells movement. VMware has done awesome over the past year. Few years, I had to eat a little crow and say that the move to eject Pivotal was the right thing for the Stock but for the reputation, VMware is stuck so Pat, what, tallied up 5 billion dollars in sales, in purchases last week to get out of this motion of being stuck in the IT Infrastructure realm Will it pay off? I think it's going to be a good conversation because they're going to need those Pivotal guys to push this PKS vision of theirs. This PKS and Kubernetes vision that they have >> Well they got to figure it out but certainly it's a software world and one of the things that's interesting we were talking before we started is, they are stuck in that operator world but it's part of DevOps, Dev and Ops. This is the world that they operate in Google's cloud shows how to do it. You got SRE's run things and developers this program infrastructure is code. This is the promise of this new generation. Sarbjeet, we talk about it all the time on Twitter developers coding away not dealing with the infrastructure, that's the goal >> Yeah, traditionally, developers never sort of mucked around with infrastructure. Gradually we are moving into where developers have to take care of infrastructure themselves the teams are like two person teams we hear that all the time. They are responsible for running the show from beginning to the end. Operations are under them, it's Dev and Ops are put together, right? But I'll speak from my own personal experience with working at VMware in the past that from all the companies which are operations focused, that's HP, IBM, and Oracle to a certain extent. So portfolio and all that. And BMC, and CA, those are pure companies in the operations space, right? I think VMware is one of those which values software a lot. So it's a purely, inside the VMware it's purely software driven. But to the outside, what they produce what they have produced in the past that's all operations, right? So I think they can move that switch because of the culture and then with Pivotal acquisition I think it will make it much easier because there's some following of the Pivotal stack, if you will the only caveat I think on that side is it is kind of a little bit of interlocking-ish, right? That is one of the fears I have. >> Who's not, even RedHat these days is, locking you in. >> Yeah, you know, I pulled some interesting stat metadata from a blog post from Paul Fazzone announcing the Pivotal acquisition. He mentioned Kubernetes 22 times. He mentioned Pivotal Cloud Foundry once. So VMware is all in on this open-shift type movement I think VMware is looking at the Red shift I mean Red OpenShift acquisition by IBM and thinking, "Man, I wish we didn't have this "Sense of relationship with Pivotal "So we could have went out and bought RedHat." >> Well that's a good point about Kubernetes, I think you're right on that. And remember, we've been covering Open Stack up until about a year ago, and they changed the name it's now something else, but I remember when Open Shift wasn't doing well. >> Keith: I do too! >> And what really was a tipping point for them was they had all the elements, but it was Kubernetes that really put them in a position to take advantage of what they were trying to do and I think you're right, I think VMware sees that, now that IBM owns RedHat and Open Shift, it's clear. But I think the vSphere deal with Project Pacific points out that they want to use Kubernetes as a distraction layer for developers, and have a developer interface to vSphere. So they get the operators with vSphere, they put Kubernetes in there and they say, "Hey developers, use us." Now I think that's a hedge also against Pivotal 'cause if that horse doesn't come across the track to the finish line, you know... >> It's definitely a hedge on Containers just a finer point of what you were saying there was a slight difference in the cash outlay for RedHat, 34 billion versus the cash outlay for Pivotal was 800 million. So they picked up an 800 million dollar asset or a 4 billion dollar asset for 2.7 billion. >> Hold on, explain that because 2.7 billion was the number we reported you're saying that VMware put out only 800 million in cash, which, what's that mean? >> That's correct. So they put out 800 million in cash to the existing shareholders of Pivotal, which is a minority of the shareholders. Michael Dell owns 70% of it, VMware owns 15% of it. So they take the public shareholders get the 800 million >> John: They get taken out, yep. >> Michael Dell gets more VMware stock, so now he owns more of VMware. VMware already owns 15% of Pivotal, so for 800 million, they get Pivotal. >> So, the VMware independent shareholders get... they get diluted. >> Right. >> Did they lose out in the deal is the question and I think the thing that most people are missing in this conversation is that Pivotal has a army of developers. Regardless of whether developers focus on PCF or Kubernetes is irrelevant. VMware has a army, a services army now that they can point towards the industry and say, "We have the chops to have "The conversation around why you should "Come to us for developing." >> So I want to come back to that but just, a good question is, Do the VMware shareholders get screwed? Near term, the stock drops, right? Which is what happens, right? Pivotal was up 77% on the day that the Dow dropped 800 points. Here's where I think it makes sense, and there are some external risks. Pivotal plus Carbon Black, the combination they shelled out 2.7 billion in cash. They're going to add a billion dollars to VMware's subscription business next year. VMware trades at 5x revenue multiple, so the shareholders will, in theory, get back 5 billion. In year two, it's going to be 3 billion that they're going to add to the subscription revenue so in theory, that's 15 billion of value added. I think that goes into the thinking, so, now, are people going to flock to VMware? Are Kubernetes developers going to flock to VMware? I mean to your point, that to me, that's the value of Pivotal is they can get VMware into the developer community. 'Cause where is VMware with developers? Nobody, no developers in this audience. >> That's true. >> What are your guys' thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I think that we have to dissect the workload of applications at the enterprise level, right? There are a variety of applications, right, from SAPs Oracles of the world those are two heavyweights in the application space. And then there's a long trail of ISVs, right. And then there's homegrown applications I think where Pivotal plays a big role is the homegrown applications. When you're shipping a lot as an ISV or within your enterprise, you're writing software you're shipping applications to the user base. It could be internal for partners, for customers, right, I think that's where Pivotal plays Pivotal is pivotal, if you will. >> I think that's a good bet too, one of the things we've been pulling the CESoEs data for when we got reinforced we started pulling CESoEs in our network, and it's interesting. They're under the gun to produce security solutions and manage the vendors and do all that stuff they're all telling us, the majority of them are telling us that they're building their own stacks internally to handle the crisis and the challenge of security, which I think's a leading indicator versus the kind of slow, slower CIO which LOVES multi-anything. Multi-vendor, control, a deal with contracts CESoEs, they don't have the DOGMA because they can't have the DOGMA. They got to deliver and they're saying, "We're going to build a stack "On one cloud. "Have a backup cloud, "I want all my developer resources "On this cloud, not fork my team "And I'm going to build a stack "And then I'm going to ship APIs "And say to my suppliers, in the RFP process, "If you support these APIs, "You could do business with us." >> Keith: So, if you don't -- >> That's kind of a cutting edge. If you don't, you can't, you can't. And that's the new normal. We're seeing it with the Jedi deal with Oracle not getting, playing 'cause they're not certified at the level that Amazon is, and you're going to start to see these new requirements emerging this is a huge point. I think that's where Pivotal could really shine not being the, quote, developer channel for VMware. I think it's more of really writing apps >> And John, I think people aren't even going to question that model. Capital One is probably the poster child for that model they actually went out and acquired a start-up, a security, a container security start up, integrated them into their operations and they still failed. Security in the cloud is hard. I think we'll get into a multi-cloud discussion this is one of the reasons why I'm not a big fan of multi-cloud from an architecture perspective, but from a practical challenge, security is one of the number one challenges. >> That's a great point on Capital One in fact, that's a great example. In fact, I love to argue this point. On Twitter, I was heavily arguing this point which is, yeah, they had a breach. But that was a very low-level it's like the equivalent of a S3 bucket not being configured, right? I mean it was so trivial of a problem but still, it takes one whole-- (hearty laughing) One, one entry point for malware to get in. One entry point to get into any network where it's IOT This is the huge challenge. So the question there is, automation. Do you do the, so, again, these are the, that's a solvable problem with Capital One. What we don't know is, what has Capital One done that we don't know that they've solved? So, again, I look at that breech as pretty, obviously, major, but it was a freakin' misconfigured firewall. >> So, come back to your comments on multi-cloud. I'm inferring from what you said, and I'd love to get your opinion, Sarbjeet. That multi-cloud is not an architectural strategy. I've said this. It's kind of a symptom of multiple vendors playing but so, can multi-cloud become, because certainly VMware IBM RedHat, Google with Anthos, maybe a little bit less Microsoft but those three-- >> Dell Technologies. >> Cisco, Cisco and certainly Dell all talking about multi-cloud is the clear strategy that's where CIOs are going, you're not buying it. Will it ever become a clear strategy from an architectural standpoint? >> Multi-cloud is the NSX and I don't mean NSX in VMware NSX it's the Acura NSX of enterprise IT. The idea of owning the NSX is great it brings me into the showroom, but I am going to buy, I'm going to go over to the Honda side or I'm going to go buy the MDX or something more reasonable. Multi-cloud, the idea, sure it's possible. It's possible for me to own a NSX sports car. But it's more practical for me to be able to shop around I can go to Google via cloud simple I mean I can go via cloud simple to Azure, GCP or I can go BMC, I have options to where I land, but to say that I am going to operate across all three? That's the NSX. >> If you had a NSX sports car, by the way, to use the analogy in my mind is great one, the roads aren't open yet. So, yeah, okay great. (hearty laughing) >> Or you go to Germany and you're in California. So, the transport, and again in the applications you could build tech for good applications all you want, and they're talking about tech for good here but if it's insecure, those apps are going to create more entry points. Again, for cyber threats, for malware, so again, the security equation, and you're right is super important, and they don't have it. >> Dave: What's your thought on all (mumble)? >> Sarbjeet: I think on multi-cloud you are, when you are going to use multi-cloud you going to expand the threat surface if you will 'cause you're putting stuff at different places. But I don't think it, like as you said Dave, the multi-cloud is not more of an architectural choice, it's more like a risk mitigation strategy from the vendor point of view. Like, Amazon, who they don't compete with or who they won't compete with in the future we don't know, right? So... >> You mean within the industry. >> Yeah, within the industry right-- >> Autos or healthcare or... >> Sarbjeet: Yeah, they will, they are talking about that, right? So if you put all, all sort of all your bets on that or Azure, let's say even Azure, right? They are not in that kind of category, but still if you go with one vendor, and that's mission critical and something happens like government breaks them up or they go under, sideways, whatever, right? And then your business is stuck with them and another thing is that the whole US business, if you think about it at a global scale, like where US stands and all that stuff and even global companies are using these hourglass providers based in US, these companies are becoming like they're becoming too big to fail, right? If you put everything on one company, right, and then something happens will we bail them out? Right, will the government bail them out? Like stuff like that. Like banks became too big to fail, I think. I think from that point of view, bigger companies will shift to multi-cloud for, to hedge, right, >> Risk Mitigation >> Risk mitigation. >> Yeah, that's, okay, that's fair. >> I mean, I believe in multi-cloud in one definition only. I think, for now, the nirvana of having different workload management across utility bases, that's fantasy. >> Keith: Yeah, that's fantasy. >> I think you could probably engineer it, but there might not be a workload for that or maybe data analytics I could see moving around as a use case, certainly, but I think-- >> D-R! >> The reality is, is that all companies will probably have multiple clouds, clearly like, if you're going to run Office 365, and it's going to be on Azure, you're an Azure customer, okay. You have Azure cloud. If you're building your security stack on Amazon, and got a development team, you're on Amazon. You got two clouds. You add Google in there, big tables, great for certain things you know, Big Query, you got Google. You might even have Alibaba if you're operating in China So, again, you going to have multiple clouds the question is, the workloads define cloud selection. So, I've been on this thing, if you got a workload, an app, that app should choose its best infrastructure possible that maximizes what the outcome is. >> And John, I think what people fail to realize, that users, when you give them a set of tools, they're going to do what users do, which is, be productive. Just like users went out and took credit cards swiped it and got Amazon. If you, if in your environment you have Amazon you have GCP, you have Azure, you have Salesforce, O-365, and a user has access to all five platforms, whether or not you built a multi-cloud application a user's going to find a way to get their work done with all five, and you're going to have multi-cloud fallout because users will build data sets and workloads across that, even if IT isn't the one that designed it. >> All right, guys, final question of the Power Panel Dave, I want to include this for you too, and I'll weigh in as well. Take a minute to share what you're thinking right now is on the industry. What's taking up your attention? What's dominating your Twittershpere right now? What's the bee in your bonnet? What's the hot-button issue that you're kicking the tires on, learning about, or promoting? Sarbjeet, we'll start with you. What's on top of the mind for you these days? >> I think with talk about multi-cloud all the time, that's in discussions all the time and then Blockchain is another like slow-moving train, if you will, I think it's arriving now, and we will see some solutions coming down the pike from different, like a platformization of the Blockchain, if you will, that's happening, I think those are two actually things I keep my eyes on and how developers going to move, which side to take and then how the AWSs dominance is challenged by Microsoft and Google there's one thing I usually talk about on Twittersphere, is that there's a data gravity and there's a scales gravity, right? So people who are getting trained on Amazon, they will tend to stay with them 'cause that's, at the end of the day, it's people using technology, right? So, moving from one to another is a challenge. Whoever throws in a lot of education at the developers and operators, they will win. >> Keith, what are you gettin' excited about? >> So, CTO advisor has this theory about the data framework, or data infrastructure. Multi-cloud is the conversation about workloads going here, there, irrelevant, it's all about the data. How do I have a consistent data policy? A data protection policy, data management policy across SAS, O-365, Sales Force Workday, my IAF providers, my PATH providers, and OMPRIM, how do I move that data and make sure another data management backup company won Best of VMWorld this year. This is like the third or fourth year and a reason it's not because of backup. It's because CIOs, CDOs are concerned about this data challenge, and as much as we want to talk about multi-cloud, I think well, the industry will discover the problem isn't in Kubernetes the solution isn't in Kubernetes it's going to be one of these cool start-ups or one of these legacy vendors such as NetAp, Dell, EMC that solves that data management layer. >> All right, great stuff. My hot button is cloud 2.0 as everyone knows, I think there's new requirements that are coming out, and what got my attention is this enterprise action of VMware, the CIA deal at Amazon, the Jedi deal show that there are new requirements that our customers are driving that the vendors don't have, and that's a function that cloud providers are going to provide, and I think that's that's the canary in the coal mine. >> I've got to chime in. I've got to chime in. Sorry, Lenard, but it's the combination what excites me is the combination of data plus machine intelligence and cloud scale. A new scenario of disruption moving beyond a remote set of cloud services to a ubiquitous set of digital services powered by data that are going to disrupt every industry. That's what I get excited about. >> Guys, great Power Panel. We'll pick this up online. We'll actually get the Power Panels working out of our Palo Alto studio. If you haven't seen the Power Panels, check them out. Search Power Panels the Cube on Google, you'll see the videos. We talk about an issue, we get experts it's an editorial product. You'll see more of that online. More coverage here at VMWorld 2019 after this short break. (lively techno music)

>> Voiceover: Live from San Diego, California. It's the CUBE, covering Cisco Live U.S. 2019, brought to you by Cisco, and its EcoSystem Partners. >> Welcome back to San Diego, day two here, of Cisco Live 2019, I'm Dave Villante with my co-host Stu Miniman, Lisa Martin is also here. You're watching the Cube, the leader live tech coverage, we're here in the DevNet zone, which is a very happenin' place, and all the action is here the CCIE folks are getting trained up on how to do Infrastructure as Code. Terry Ramos is here, he's the Vice President of Alliances, at Cohesity, hot company, achieving escape velocity. Terry great to have you on. Good to see you again. >> Great to be here, really enjoy it. >> So Cisco is a big partner of yours, perhaps the biggest I know you don't like to say that, you love all your partners like you love your kids, but clearly a lot of good action going on with you guys. Talk about the partnership, where it started, how it's evolved. >> Sure so first off a little bit about Cohesity, I think would be helpful right, we're in the data management space, really helping customers with their data management, and how do they deal with the problem of mass data fragmentation, right if you think about the traditional data silos that enterprises have, we really take and level that out into one platform, our platform, and really allows customers to get the most out of their data. If we talk about the partnership with Cisco, it's actually a really good partnership. They have been an investor with us, both series C and D rounds. We recently, about three months ago announced that we were on the price book, so now a customer has the ability to go buy a Cisco UCS, Hyperflex, and Cohesity, as a cohesive bundle to solve their problems, right, to really help them grow. And then we are working on some new things, like Cisco Solutions Plus Support, where customers has a single call place, where they get all their support needs addressed. >> That's huge Stu, I remember when the, remember the Vblock when it first came out. It's a V support, I forget how many VMs, like thousands and thousands of VMs, and I just have one question, how do you back it up? And they went, and they were staring at their feet, so the fact that now you're bundled in to UCS HyperFlex, and that's part of the SKU, or its a different SKU or? >> Terry: Yeah they're all different SKUs, but it is bundled together. >> Yeah, so it's all integrated? It's a check box item, right okay? >> What we did was came up with the CVD, validated design so customers can get a validated design that says HyerFlex, UCS, Cohesity, here's how to deploy it, here's the best use cases, and they can actually go buy that, then it's a bundled solution. >> Terry brings us inside a little bit that go to market, because it's one thing to be partnered with CBDs, they're great but Cisco as you know hundred of these, if not more, but you know when you've got access to that Cisco channel out there, people that are transforming data centers, they talked about conversion infrastructure, hyper conversion infrastructure, Cisco UCS, tip of the spear for Cisco in that Data Center world, what does it mean to be that oh hey you know that whole channel, they are going to help get paid on that not just say oh yeah yeah that works. >> Yeah, I think that there's a few things for the channel for us, one is just Cisco's team themselves right, they don't have a backup solution so we are really the next gen backup and that's really helped them out. When we talk about Channel as well Channel partners are looking for a solution that differentiates them from everybody else. So we are a high touch sales team, but we are a hundred percent channel so working with the channel, giving them new ways actually to go out a sell the solution. >> So lets talk a little bit about backup, data protection, data insurance you know sort of we're trying to pass between, all right, what's the marketing and what's the reality for customers, so we remember the VM where Ascendancy days, it caused people to really have to rethink their backup and their data protection. What's driving it now? Why are so many customers kind of reassessing their backup approach and their overall data protection and data management? >> Yeah, I think it's the best analogy to last one is data management right, everybody has thought of data protection, it's just protecting your data. Backup and recovery. What we've done is really looked at it as it's data, you should be able to use your data however you want to. So, yeah we made do data protection on the platform, but then we do tests that, we do file shares, we do things like that, and we make it this cohesive data management platform, where customers get various use cases, but then they can look at their entire dataset, and that is really the key anymore. And when you talk about the data protection as it was, it was very silo. You data protect one set of systems, and data protect the next, and data protect the next. They never talked you couldn't do management across them. >> Dave: Okay so. >> Yeah yeah Terry. So I love when you're talking about the silos there, back in Barcelona we heard Cisco talking about HyperFlex anywhere, and some of the concerns of us have is, is multi-cloud the new multi vendor, and oh my gosh have I just created a whole bunch of silos that are just outside of my data center, like I used to do inside my data center. How's Cohesity helping to solve that solution for people from your. >> Yeah I think that's a interesting one. Cloud is really come along, right? Everybody thought we'll see what cloud does, it's really come a long way and people are using multi-cloud, so they are doing cloud on prem. Then they're archiving out to public cloud providers, and they're archiving out to other silos where they, or other data services where they have it, and that's really been the approach lately, is you can't just have your data in one location, you're going to move it out to the Cloud, you're going to store it on UCS and HyperFlex, and Cohesity. And again its how do you use that data, so that's the key is really that. But it is a cloud world for sure, where you're doing On-prem Cloud and Public Cloud. >> So today a lot of that focus, correct me it I am wrong, is infrastructure as a service? >> Yes >> Whether it's AWS, Google, you know Azure. Do you, have you started to think about, or are customers and partners asking you to think about, all the protecting all the data in SAS, is that something that's sort of on the road map are you hearing that for customers, or to is it still early for that? >> No I think that actually a great use case, if you talk about I'll just pick on one, Office 365 right, if you think about what they really provide it's availability right it's not backup so, if you need to back a year and get that critical email that you need for whatever reason, that's really not what they're doing. They're making sure it's up and running, and available to the users. So data protection for SAS apps is actually a new use case that I think is enormous. >> Okay so take Office 365 as an example, is that something you can protect today, or is that kind on the road map? >> That's something we can do today. >> So explain to our audience, why if I am using Office 365 which is in the Cloud, isn't Microsoft going to take care of that for me, why do I need Cohesity explain? >> Yeah, I think it is really comes down to that, it's they're really providing availability, yeah they have some backup services, but even if they do it's not tying into your overall data management solution. And so backing up O-365 gives you access to all that data as well, so you can do algorithms on it, analytics all those things once it's part of the bigger platform. >> And you probably have more facile recovery, which is, backup is one thing, recovery Stu. >> Is a everything. >> There you go. >> It is. (laugh) >> Terry talk to us about your customers, how about any big you know Cisco joint customers that you can talk about but would love to hear some of the latest from your customers? >> Yeah I think when we started this partnership awhile ago, what we really focused on Cohesity on UCS, and we got some traction there. When we went on the price sheet that really changed, things because the customers are now able to buy on a single price sheet. When you talk about the large customers it's been incredible the last three, four months, the numbers of joint customers that we've been in, and Cisco's been in, and its enterprise customers, it's the fortune five hundred customers that we're going after. A customer that's here later today, Quantium is a great use case. They're data analytics, they're AI, and they're providing a lot of information to customers on supply chain. And he's here later today on the CUBE, and it's a really great use case to what they are doing with it. >> Yeah we're excited to talk to him so lets do a little prep for him, what, tell us about Quantium, what do you know about them so we, gives us the bumper sticker so we're ready for the interview. >> Craig will do a much better job of it, but my understanding is they're looking at data, supply chain data, when to get customers in, when they should have product there, propensity to buy, all of those things, and they are doing all that for very large enterprise customers, and then they're using us to data protect all that they do. >> So, so the reason I asked that is I wanted to double click on that, because you've been stressing Terry, that it's not just backup. It's this notion of data management. You can do Analytics, you can do other things. So when you, lets generalize and lets not make it specific to Quantium, we'll talk to them later, but what specifically are customers doing beyond backup? What kind of analytics are they doing? How is affecting their business? What kind of outcomes are they trying to drive? >> Yeah I think it's a great question, we did something about four months ago, where we replaced released the market place. So now we've gotten all this data from data protection, file shares, test-dev, cloud as we talked about. So we've got this platform with all this data on top of it, and now partners can come in and write apps on top to do all sorts of things with that data. So think of being able to spin up a VM in our platform, do some Analytics on it, looking at it for any number of things, and then destroy it right, destroy the backup copy not the backup the copy that's made, and then be able to go to the next one, and really get deep into what data is on there, how can I use that data, how can I use that data across various applications? >> Are you seeing, I've sort have always thought the corpus, the backup corpus could be used in a security context, not you know, not to compete with Palo Alto Networks but specifically to assess exposure to things like Ransomware. If you see some anomalous behavior 'cause stuff when it goes bad it goes bad quickly these days, so are you seeing those types of use cases emerging? >> Absolutely, ransomware is actually a really big use case for us right now, where customers are wanting data protection to ensure Ransomware's not happening, and if they do get hit how do we make sure to restart quickly. Give you another example is we have a ClamAV so we can spin up a VM and check it for anitivirus. Right in their data protection mode so not without, not touching the production systems but touching the systems that are already backed up. >> I think you guys recently made an acquisition of a Manas Data which if I recall correctly was a specialized, sort of data protection company focused on things like, NoSQL and maybe Hadoop and so forth, so that's cool. We had those guys on in New York City last fall. And then, so I like that, building out the portfolio. My question is around containers, and all this cloud native stuff going on we're in the DevNet zone so a lot DevOps action, data protection for containers are you, your customers and your partners are they sort of pushing you in that direction, how are you responding? >> Yeah I think when you talk about cloud in general right, there's been a huge amount of VMs that are there, containers are there as well so yeah customers are absolutely talking about containers. Our market place is a container based market place, so containers are absolutely a big thing for us. >> So what else can you share with us about you know conversations that you're having with customers and partners at the show? What are the, what's the narrative like? What are some of the big concerns, maybe that again either customers or partners have? >> Yeah I don't want to sound like a broken record but I think the biggest thing we hear always is the data silos, right? It's really breaking down those silos, getting rid of the old legacy silos where you can't use the data how you want to, where you can't run analytics across the data. That is the number one talk track that customers tell us. >> So how does that fit in, you know the old buzz word of digital transformation, but we always say the difference between a business and a digital business is how they use data. And if you think about how a traditional business looks at it's data, well that data's all in silos as you pointed out and there's something in the middle like a business process or a bottling plant or... >> That's right. >> manufacturing facility, but the data's all dispersed in silos, are you seeing people, as at least as part of their digital transformation, leveraging you guys to put that data in at least in a logical place that they can do those analytics and maybe you could add some color to that scenario. >> Yeah, for sure, I mean the data from I'll give you a great example. The CBD we just did with Cisco, the updated one has Edge. So now when you're talking about plants and branch offices and those things, now we can bring that data back in to the central core as well, do analytics on it, and then push it to other offices for updated information. So absolutely, it is a big use case of, it's not just looking at that core central data center. How do you get that data from your other offices, from your retail locations, from your manufacturing plants. >> Final thoughts. San Diego, good venue you know great weather. >> Beautiful. >> Cisco Live. >> Yeah. >> Dave: Put a bumper sticker on it. >> I'm impressed with Cisco Live. I haven't been here in several years. It's an impressive show, 26 thousand people, great, beautiful weather, great convention center. Just a great place to be right now. >> All right and we're bring it all to you live from the CUBE. Thank you Terry for coming on. Dave Villante, for Stu Miniman, Lisa Martin is also here. Day two, Cisco Live, 2019. You're watching the CUBE, we'll be right back. (upbeat techno music)