(bright upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of VeeamON 2022. We're here at the Aria in Las Vegas. This is day two, Dave Vallante with David Nicholson. You know with theCUBE, we talked about the cloud a lot and the company that started the cloud, AWS. Jeanna James is here. She's the Global Alliance Manager at AWS and a data protection expert. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE again. >> Thanks so much for having me, Dave. It's great to be here in person with everyone. >> Yes, you know, we've done a few events live more than a handful. Thanks a lot to AWS. We've done a number. We did the DC Summits. Of course, re:Invent was huge out here last year. That was right in between the sort of variant Omicron hitting. And it was a great, great show. We thought, okay, now we're back. And of course we're kind of back, but we're here and it's good to have you. So Veeam, AWS, I mean, they certainly embrace the cloud. What's your relationship there? >> Yeah, so Veeam is definitely a strong partner with AWS. And as you know, AWS is really a, you know, we have so many different services, and our customers and our partners are looking at how can I leverage those services and how do I back this up, right? Whether they're running things on premises and they want to put a copy of the data into Amazon S3, Amazon S3 Infrequent Access or Amazon S3 Glacier Deep Archive, all of these different technologies, you know Veeam supports them to get a copy from on-prem into AWS. But then the great thing is, you know, it's nice to have a copy of your data in the cloud but you might want to be able to do something with it once it gets there, right? So Veeam supports things like Amazon EC2 and Amazon EKS and EKS Anywhere. So those customers can actually recover their data directly into Amazon EC2 and EKS Anywhere. >> So we, of course, talked a lot about ransomware and that's important in that context of what you just mentioned. What are you seeing with the customers when you talk to them about ransomware? What are they asking AWS to do? Maybe we could start unpacking that a bit. >> Yeah, ransomware is definitely a huge topic today. We're constantly having that conversation. And, you know, five years ago there was a big malware attack that was called the NotPetya virus. And at that time it was based on Petya which was a ransomware virus, and it was designed to go in and, you know, lock in the data but it also went after the backup data, right? So it hold all of that data hostage so that people couldn't recover. Well, NotPetya was based on that but it was worse because it was the seek and destroy virus. So with the ransomware, you can pay a fee and get your data back. But with this NotPetya, it just went in, it propagated itself. It started installing on servers and laptops, anything it could touch and just deleting everything. And at that time, I actually happened to be in the hospital. So hospitals, all types of companies got hit by this attack. And my father had been rushed to the emergency room. I happened to be there. So I saw live what really was happening. And honestly, these network guys were running around shutting down laptops, taking them away from doctors and nurses, shutting off desktops. Putting like taping on pictures that said, do not turn on, right? And then, the nurses and staff were having to kind of take notes. And it was just, it was a mess, it was bad. >> Putting masks on the laptops essentially. >> Yeah, so just-- >> Disinfecting them or trying to. Wow, unplugging things from the network. >> Yes, because, you know, and that attack really demonstrated why you really need a copy of the data in the cloud or somewhere besides tape, right? So what happened at that time is if you lose 10 servers or something, you might be able to recover from tape, but if you lose a hundred or a thousand servers and all of your laptops, all in hours, literally a matter of hours, that is a big event, it's going to take time to recover. And so, you know, if you put a copy of the backup data in Amazon S3 and you can turn on that S3 Object Lock for immutability, you're able to recover in the cloud. >> So, can we go back to this hospital story? 'Cause that takes us inside the disaster potential. So they shut everything down, basically shut down the network so they could figure out what's going on and then fence it off, I presume. So you got, wow, so what happened? First of all, did they have to go manual, I mean? >> They had to do everything manually. It was really a different experience. >> Going back to the 1970s, I mean. >> It was, and they didn't know really how to do it, right? So they basically had kind of yellow notepads and they would take notes. Well, then let's say the doctor took notes, well, then the nurse couldn't read the notes. And even over the PA, you know, there was an announcement and it was pretty funny. Don't send down lab work request with just the last name. We need to know the first name, the last name, and the date of birth. There are multiple Joneses in this hospital so yeah (giggles). >> This is going to sound weird. But so when I was a kid, when you worked retail, if there was a charge for, you know, let's say $5.74 and, you know, they gave you, you know, amount of money, you would give them, you know, the penny back, count up in your head that's 75, give them a quarter and then give them the change. Today, of course, it works differently. The computer tells you, how much change to give. It's like they didn't know what to do. They didn't know how to do it manually 'cause they never had the manual process. >> That's exactly right. Some of the nurses and doctors had never done it manually. >> Wow, okay, so then technically they have to figure out what happened so that takes some time. However they do that. That's kind of not your job, right? I dunno if you can help with that or not. Maybe Amazon has some tooling to do that, probably does. And then you've got to recover from somewhere, not tape ideally. That's like the last resort. You put it on a Chevy Truck, Chevy Truck Access Method called CTAM, ship it in. That takes days, right? If you're lucky. So what's the ideal recovery. I presume it's a local copy somewhere. >> So the ideal-- >> It's fenced. >> In that particular situation, right? They had to really air gap so they couldn't even recover on those servers and things like that-- >> Because everything was infected on on-prem. >> Because everything was just continuing to propagate. So ideally you would have a copy of your data in AWS and you would turn on Object Lock which is the immutability, very simple check mark in Veeam to enable that. And that then you would be able to kick off your restores in Amazon EC2, and start running your business so. >> Yeah, this ties into the discussion of the ransomware survey where, you know, NotPetya was not seeking to extort money, it was seeking to just simply arrive and destroy. In the ransomware survey, some percentage of clients who paid ransom, never got their data back anyway. >> Oh my. >> So you almost have to go into this treating-- >> Huge percentage. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Like a third. >> Yeah, when you combine the ones where there was no request for ransom, you know, for any extorted funds, and then the ones where people paid but got nothing back. I know Maersk Line, the shipping company is a well studied example of what happened with NotPetya. And it's kind of chilling because what you describe, people running around shutting down laptops because they're seeing all of their peers' screens go black. >> Yes, that's exactly what's happening. >> And then you're done. So that end point is done at that point. >> So we've seen this, I always say there are these milestones in attacks. I mean, Stuxnet proved what a nation state could do and others learned from that, NotPetya, now SolarWinds. And people are freaking out about that because it's like maybe we haven't seen the last of that 'cause that was highly stealth, not a lot of, you know, Russian language in the malware. They would delete a lot of the malware. So very highly sophisticated island hopping, self forming malware. So who knows what's next? We don't know. And so you're saying the ideal is to have an air gap that's physically separate. maybe you can have one locally as well, we've heard about that too, and then you recover from that. What are you seeing in terms of your customers recovering from that? Is it taking minutes, hours, days? >> So that really de depends on the customers SLAs, right? And so with AWS, we offer multiple tiers of storage classes that provide different SLA recovery times, right? So if you're okay with data taking longer to recovery, you can use something like Amazon S3 Glacier Deep Archive. But if it's mission critical data, you probably want to put it in Amazon S3 and turn on that Object Lock for immutability sake. So nothing can be overwritten or deleted. And that way you can kick off your recoveries directly in AWS. >> One of the demos today that we saw, the recovery was exceedingly fast with a very small data loss so that's obviously a higher level SLA. You got to get what you pay for. A lot of businesses need that. I think it was like, I didn't think it was, they said four minutes data loss which is good. I'm glad they didn't say zero data loss 'cause there's really no such thing. So you've got experience, Jeanna, in the data protection business. How have you seen data protection evolve in the last decade and where do you see it going? Because let's face it, I mean when AWS started, okay, it had S3, 15 years ago, 16 years ago, whatever it was. Now, it's got all these tools as you mentioned. So you've learned, you've innovated along with your customers. You listened to your customers. That's your whole thing, customer obsession. >> That's right. >> What are they telling you? What do you see as the future? >> Definitely, we see more and more containerization. So you'll see with the Kasten by Veeam product, right? The ability to protect Amazon EKS, and Amazon EKS Anywhere, we see customers really want to take advantage of the ability to containerize and not have to do as much management, right? So much of what we call undifferentiated heavy lifting, right? So I think you'll see continued innovation in the area of containerization, you know, serverless computing. Obviously with AWS, we have a lot going on with artificial intelligence and machine learning. And, you know, the backup partners, they really have a unique capability in that they do touch a lot of data, right? So I think in the future, you know, things around artificial intelligence and machine learning and data analytics, all of those things could certainly be very applicable for folks like Veeam. >> Yeah, you know, we give a lot of, we acknowledge that backup is different from recovery but we often fall prey to making the mistake of saying, oh, well your data is available in X number of minutes. Well, that's great. What's it available to? So let's say I have backed up to S3 and it's immutable. By the way my wife keeps calling me and saying she wants mutability for me. (Jeanna laughs) I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. But now I've got my backup in S3, begs the question, okay, well, now what do I do with it? Well, guess what you mentioned EC2. >> That's right. >> The ability exists to create a restore environment so that not only is the data available but the services are actually online and available-- >> That's right-- >> Which is what you want with EKS and Kasten. >> So if the customer is running, you know, Kubernetes, they're able to recover as well. So yes, definitely, I see more and more services like that where customers are able to recover their environment. It might be more than just a server, right? So things are changing. It's not just one, two, three, it's the whole environment. >> So speaking of the future, one of the last physical theCUBE interviews that Andy Jassy did with us. John Furrier and myself, we were asking about the edge and he had a great quote. He said, "Oh yeah, we look at the data center as just another edge node." I thought that was good classic Andy Jassy depositioning. And so it was brilliant. But nonetheless, we've talked a little bit about the edge. I was interviewing Verizon last week, and they told me they're putting outposts everywhere, like leaning in big time. And I was saying, okay, but outpost, you know, what can you do with outpost today? Oh, you can run RDS. And, you know, there's a few ecosystem partners that support it, and he's like, oh no, we're going to push Amazon. So what are you seeing at the edge in terms of data protection? Are customers giving you any feedback at this point? >> Definitely, so edge is a big deal, right? Because some workloads require that low latency, and things like outpost allow the customers to take advantage of the same API sets that they love in, you know, AWS today, like S3, right? For example. So they're able to deploy an outpost and meet some of those specific guidelines that they might have around compliance or, you know, various regulations, and then have that same consistent operational stance whether they're on-prem or in AWS. So we see that as well as the Snowball devices, you know, they're being really hardened so they can run in areas that don't have connected, you know, interfaces to the internet, right? So you've got them running in like ships or, you know, airplanes, or a field somewhere out in nowhere of this field, right? So lots of interesting things going on there. And then of course with IoT and the internet of things and so many different devices out there, we just see a lot of change in the industry and how data is being collected, how data's being created so a lot of excitement. >> Well, so the partners are key for outposts obviously 'cause you can't do it all yourself. It's almost, okay, Amazon now in a data center or an edge node. It's like me skating. It's like, hmm, I'm kind of out of my element there but I think you're learning, right? So, but partners are key to be able to support that model. >> Yes, definitely our partners are key, Veeam, of course, supports the outpost. They support the Snowball Edge devices. They do a lot. Again, they pay attention to their customers, right? Their customers are moving more and more workloads into AWS. So what do they do? They start to support those workloads, right? Because the customers also want that consistent, like we say, the consistent APIs with AWS. Well, they also want the consistent data protection strategy with Veeam. >> Well, the cloud is expanding. It's no longer just a bunch of remote services somewhere out there in the cloud. It's going to data centers. It's going out to the edge. It's going to local zones. You guys just announced a bunch of new local zones. I'm sure there are a lot of outposts in there, expanding your regions. Super cloud is forming right before our eyes. Jeanna, thanks so much for coming to theCUBE. >> Thank you. It's been great to be here. >> All right, and thank you for watching theCUBE's coverage. This is day two. We're going all day here, myself, Dave Nicholson, cohost. Check out siliconangle.com. For all the news, thecube.net, wikibon.com. We'll be right back right after this short break. (bright upbeat music)

(innovative music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. My name is Dave Vellante, and we are running one of the industry's most important and largest hybrid tech events of the year. Hybrid as in physical, not a lot of that going on this year. But we're here with the AWS ecosystem, AWS, and special thanks to AMD for supporting this year's editorial coverage of the event. We've got two live sets, two remote studios, more than a hundred guests on the program. We're going really deep, as we enter the next decade of Cloud innovation. We're super excited to be joined by Danny Allan, who's the Chief Technology Officer at Veeam, and James Kirschner who's the Engineering Director for Amazon S3. Guys, great to see you. >> Great to see you as well, Dave. >> Thanks for having me. >> So let's kick things off. Veeam and AWS, you guys have been partnering for a long time. Danny, where's the focus at this point in time? What are customers telling you they want you to solve for? And then maybe James, you can weigh in on the problems that customers are facing, and the opportunities that they see ahead. But Danny, why don't you start us off? >> Sure. So we hear from our customers a lot that they certainly want the solutions that Veeam is bringing to market, in terms of data protection. But one of the things that we're hearing is they want to move to Cloud. And so there's a number of capabilities that they're asking us for help with. Things like S3, things like EC2, and RDS. And so over the last, I'll say four or five years, we've been doing more and more together with AWS in, I'll say, two big categories. One is, how do we help them send their data to the Cloud? And we've done that in a very significant way. We support obviously tiering data into S3, but not just S3. We support S3, and S3 Glacier, and S3 Glacier Deep Archive. And more importantly than ever, we do it with immutability because customers are asking for security. So a big category of what we're working on is making sure that we can store data and we can do it securely. Second big category that we get asked about is "Help us to protect the Cloud-Native Workloads." So they have workloads running in EC2 and RDS, and EFS, and EKS, and all these different services knowing Cloud-Native Data Protection. So we're very focused on solving those problems for our customers. >> You know, James, it's interesting. I was out at the 15th anniversary of S3 in Seattle, in September. I was talking to Mai-Lan. Remember we used to talk about gigabytes and terabytes, but things have changed quite dramatically, haven't they? What's your take on this topic? >> Well, they sure have. We've seen the exponential growth data worldwide and that's made managing backups more difficult than ever before. We're seeing traditional methods like tape libraries and secondary sites fall behind, and many organizations are moving more and more of their workloads to the Cloud. They're extending backup targets to the Cloud as well. AWS offers the most storage services, data transfer methods and networking options with unmatched durability, security and affordability. And customers who are moving their Veeam Backups to AWS, they get all those benefits with a cost-effective offsite storage platform. Providing physical separation from on-premises primary data with pay-as-you-go economics, no upfront fees or capital investments, and near zero overhead to manage. AWS and APM partners like Veeam are helping to build secure, efficient, cost-effective backup, and restore solutions using the products you know and trust with the scale and reliability of the AWS Cloud. >> So thank you for that. Danny, I remember I was way back in the old days, it was a VeeamON physical event. And I remember kicking around and seeing this company called Kasten. And I was really interested in like, "You protect the containers, aren't they ephemeral?" And we started to sort of chit-chat about how that's going to change and what their vision was. Well, back in 2020, you purchased Kasten, you formed the Veeam KBU- the Kubernetes Business Unit. What was the rationale behind that acquisition? And then James, I'm going to get you to talk a little bit about modern apps. But Danny, start with the rationale behind the Kasten acquisition. >> Well, one of the things that we certainly believe is that the next generation of infrastructure is going to be based on containers, and there's a whole number of reasons for that. Things like scalability and portability. And there's a number of significant value-adds. So back in October of last year in 2020, as you mentioned, we acquired Kasten. And since that time we've been working through Kasten and from Veeam to add more capabilities and services around AWS. For example, we supported the Bottlerocket launch they just did and actually EKS anywhere. And so we're very focused on making sure that our customers can protect their data no matter whether it's a Kubernetes cluster, or whether it's on-premises in a data center, or if it's running up in the Cloud in EC2. We give this consistent data management experience and including, of course, the next generation of infrastructure that we believe will be based on containers. >> Yeah. You know, James, I've always noted to our audience that, "Hey AWS, they provide rich set of primitives and API's that ISV's like Veeam can take advantage of it." But I wonder if you could talk about your perspective, maybe what you're seeing in the ecosystem, maybe comment on what Veeam's doing. Specifically containers, app modernization in the Cloud, the evolution of S3 to support all these trends. >> Yeah. Well, it's been great to see Veeam expands for more and more AWS services to help joint customers protect their data. Especially since Veeam stores their data in Amazon S3 storage classes. And over the last 15 years, S3 has helped companies around the world optimize their work, so I'd be happy to share some insights into that with you today. When you think about S3 well, you can find virtually every use case across all industries running on S3. That ranges from backup, to (indistinct) data, to machine learning models, the list goes on and on. And one of the reasons is because S3 provides industry leading scalability, availability, durability, security, and performance. Those are characteristics customers want. To give you some examples, S3 stores exabytes the data across millions of hard drives, trillions of objects around the world and regularly peaks at millions of requests per second. S3 can process in a single region over 60 terabytes a second. So in summary, it's a very powerful storage offering. >> Yeah, indeed. So you guys always talking about, you know, working backwards, the customer centricity. I think frankly that AWS sort of change the culture of the entire industry. So, let's talk about customers. Danny do you have an example of a joint customer? Maybe how you're partnering with AWS to try to address some of the challenges in data protection. What are customers is seeing today? >> Well, we're certainly seeing that migration towards the Cloud as James alluded today. And actually, if we're talking about Kubernetes, actually there's a customer that I know of right now, Leidos. They're a fortune 500 Information Technology Company. They deal in the engineering and technology services space, and focus on highly regulated industry. Things like defense and intelligence in the civil space. And healthcare in these very regulated industries. Anyway, they decided to make a big investment in continuous integration, continuous development. There's a segment of the industry called portable DevSecOps, and they wanted to build infrastructure as code that they could deploy services, not in days or weeks or months, but they literally wanted to deploy their services in hours. And so they came to us, and with Kasten K10 actually around Kubernetes, they created a service that could enable them to do that. So they could be fully compliant, and they could deliver the services in, like I say, hours, not days or months. And they did that all while delivering the same security that they need in a cost-effective way. So it's been a great partnership, and that's just one example. We see these all the time, customers who want to combine the power of Kubernetes with the scale of the Cloud from AWS, with the data protection that comes from Veeam. >> Yes, so James, you know at AWS you don't get dinner if you don't have a customer example. So maybe you could share one with us. >> Yeah. We do love working backwards from customers and Danny, I loved hearing that story. One customer leveraging Veeam and AWS is Maritz. Maritz provides business performance solutions that connect people to results, ensuring brands deliver on their customer promises and drive growth. Recently Maritz moved over a thousand VM's and petabytes of data into AWS, using Veeam. Veeam Backup for AWS enables Maritz to protect their Amazon EC2 instances with the backup of the data in the Amazon S3 for highly available, cost-effective, long-term storage. >> You know, one of the hallmarks of Cloud is strong ecosystem. I see a lot of companies doing sort of their own version of Cloud. I always ask "What's the partner ecosystem look like?" Because that is a fundamental requirement, in my view anyway, and attribute. And so, a big part of that, Danny, is channel partners. And you have a 100 percent channel model. And I wonder if we could talk about your strategy in that regard. Why is it important to be all channel? How to consulting partners fit into the strategy? And then James, I'm going to ask you what's the fit with the AWS ecosystem. But Danny, let's start with you. >> Sure, so one of the things that we've learned, we're 15 years old as well, actually. I think we're about two months older, or younger I should say than AWS. I think their birthday was in August, ours was in October. But over that 15 years, we've learned that our customers enjoy the services, and support, and expertise that comes from the channel. And so we've always been a 100 percent channel company. And so one of the things that we've done with AWS is to make sure that our customers can purchase both how and when they want through the AWS marketplace. They have a program called Consulting Partners Private Agreements, or CPPO, I think is what it's known as. And that allows our customers to consume through the channel, but with the terms and bill that they associate with AWS. And so it's a new route-to-market for us, but we continue to partner with AWS in the channel programs as well. >> Yeah. The marketplace is really impressive. James, I wonder if you could maybe add in a little bit. >> Yeah. I think Danny said it well, AWS marketplace is a sales channel for ISV's and consulting partners. It lets them sell their solutions to AWS customers. And we focus on making it really easy for customers to find, buy, deploy, and manage software solutions, including software as a service in just a matter of minutes. >> Danny, you mentioned you're 15 years old. The first time I mean, the name Veeam. The brilliance of tying it to virtualization and VMware. I was at a VMUG when I first met you guys and saw your ascendancy tied to virtualization. And now you're obviously leaning heavily into the Cloud. You and I have talked a lot about the difference between just wrapping your stack in a container and hosting it in the Cloud versus actually taking advantage of Cloud-Native Services to drive further innovation. So my question to you is, where does Veeam fit on that spectrum, and specifically what Cloud-Native Services are you leveraging on AWS? And maybe what have been some outcomes of those efforts, if in fact that's what you're doing? And then James, I have a follow-up for you. >> Sure. So the, the outcomes clearly are just more success, more scale, more security. All the things that James is alluding to, that's true for Veeam it's true for our customers. And so if you look at the Cloud-Native capabilities that we protect today, certainly it began with EC2. So we run things in the Cloud in EC2, and we wanted to protect that. But we've gone well beyond that today, we protect RDS, we protect EFS- Elastic File Services. We talked about EKS- Elastic Kubernetes Services, ECS. So there's a number of these different services that we protect, and we're going to continue to expand on that. But the interesting thing is in all of these, Dave, when we do data protection, we're sending it to S3, and we're doing all of that management, and tiering, and security that our customers know and love and expect from Veeam. And so you'll continue to see these types of capabilities coming from Veeam as we go forward. >> Thank you for that. So James, as we know S3- very first service offered in 2006 on the AWS' Cloud. As I said, theCUBE was out in Seattle, September. It was a great, you know, a little semi-hybrid event. But so over the decade and a half, you really expanded the offerings quite dramatically. Including a number of, you got on-premise services things, like Outposts. You got other services with "Wintery" names. How have you seen partners take advantage of those services? Is there anything you can highlight maybe that Veeam is doing that's notable? What can you share? >> Yeah, I think you're right to call out that growth. We have a very broad and rich set of features and services, and we keep growing that. Almost every day there's a new release coming out, so it can be hard to keep up with. And Veeam has really been listening and innovating to support our joint customers. Like Danny called out a number of the ways in which they've expanded their support. Within Amazon S3, I want to call out their support for our infrequent access, infrequent access One-Zone, Glacier, and Glacier Deep Archive Storage Classes. And they also support other AWS storage services like AWS Outposts, AWS Storage Gateway, AWS Snowball Edge, and the Cold-themed storage offerings. So absolutely a broad set of support there. >> Yeah. There's those, winter is coming. Okay, great guys, we're going to leave it there. Danny, James, thanks so much for coming to theCUBE. Really good to see you guys. >> Good to see you as well, thank you. >> All right >> Thanks for having us. >> You're very welcome. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of 2021 AWS re:Invent, keep it right there for more action on theCUBE, your leader in hybrid tech event coverage, right back. (uplifting music)

>>from around the globe. It's the queue with digital coverage of AWS Public sector online brought to you by Amazon Web services. Everyone welcome back to the Cube's virtual coverage of AWS Public sector online summit, which is also virtual. I'm John Furrier, host of the Cube, with a great interview. He remotely Jennifer Cronus, who's the general manager with the D. O. D. Account for Amazon Web services. Jennifer, welcome to the Cube, and great to have you over the phone. I know we couldn't get the remote video cause location, but glad to have you via your voice. Thanks for joining us. >>Well, thank you very much, John. Thanks for the opportunity here >>to the Department of Defense. Big part of the conversation over the past couple of years, One of many examples of the agencies modernizing. And here at the public sector summit virtual on line. One of your customers, the Navy with their air p is featured. Yes, this is really kind of encapsulate. It's kind of this modernization of the public sector. So tell us about what they're doing and their journey. >>Sure, Absolutely. So ah, maybe er P, which is Navy enterprise resource planning is the department of the Navy's financial system of record. It's built on S AP, and it provides financial acquisition and my management information to maybe commands and Navy leadership. Essentially keep the Navy running and to increase the effectiveness and the efficiency of baby support warfighter. It handles about $70 billion in financial transactions each year and has over 72,000 users across six Navy commands. Um, and they checked the number of users to double over the next five years. So essentially, you know, this program was in a situation where their on premises infrastructure was end of life. They were facing an expensive tech upgrade in 2019. They had infrastructure that was hard to steal and prone to system outages. Data Analytics for too slow to enable decision making, and users actually referred to it as a fragile system. And so, uh, the Navy made the decision last year to migrate the Europe E system to AWS Cloud along with S AP and S two to s AP National Security Services. So it's a great use case for a government organization modernizing in the cloud, and we're really happy to have them speaking at something this year. >>Now, was this a new move for the Navy to move to the cloud? Actually, has a lot of people are end life in their data center? Certainly seeing in public sector from education to modernize. So is this a new move for them? And what kind of information does this effect? I mean, ASAP is kind of like, Is it, like just financial data as an operational data? What is some of the What's the move about it Was that new? And what kind of data is impacted? >>Sure. Yeah, well, the Navy actually issued a Cloud First Policy in November of 2017. So they've been at it for a while, moving lots of different systems of different sizes and shapes to the cloud. But this migration really marked the first significant enterprise business system for the Navy to move to the actually the largest business system. My migrate to the cloud across D o D. Today to date. And so, essentially, what maybe Air P does is it modernizes and standardizes Navy business operation. So everything think about from time keeping to ordering missile and radar components for Navy weapon system. So it's really a comprehensive system. And, as I said, the migration to AWS govcloud marks the Navy's largest cloud migration to date. And so this essentially puts the movement and documentation of some $70 billion worth of parts of goods into one accessible space so the information can be shared, analyzed and protected more uniformly. And what's really exciting about this and you'll hear from the Navy at Summit is that they were actually able to complete this migration in just under 10 months, which was nearly half the time it was originally expected to take different sizing complexity. So it's a really, really great spring. >>That's huge numbers. I mean, they used to be years. Well, that was the minicomputer. I'm old enough to remember like, Oh, it's gonna be a two year process. Um, 10 months, pretty spectacular. I got to ask, What is some of the benefits that they're seeing in the cloud? Is that it? Has it changed the roles and responsibilities? What's what's some of the impact that they're seeing expecting to see quickly? >>Yeah, I'd say, you know, there's been a really big impact to the Navy across probably four different areas. One is in decision making. Also better customer experience improves security and then disaster recovery. So we just kind of dive into each of those a little bit. So, you know, moving the system to the cloud has really allowed the Navy make more timely and informed decisions, as well as to conduct advanced analytics that they weren't able to do as efficiently in the past. So as an example, pulling financial reports and using advanced analytics on their own from system used to take them around 20 hours. And now ah, maybe your API is able to all these ports in less than four hours, obviously allowing them to run the reports for frequently and more efficiently. And so this is obviously lead to an overall better customer experience enhance decision making, and they've also been able to deploy their first self service business intelligence capabilities. So to put the hat, you know, the capability, Ah, using these advanced analytics in the hands of the actual users, they've also experienced improve security. You know, we talk a lot about the security benefits of migrating to the cloud, but it's given them of the opportunity to increase their data protection because now there's only one based as a. We have data to protect instead of multiple across a whole host of your traditional computing hardware. And then finally, they've implemented a really true disaster recovery system by implementing a dual strategy by putting data in both our AWS about East and govcloud West. They were the first to the Navy to do those to provide them with true disaster become >>so full govcloud edge piece. So that brings up the question around. And I love all this tactical edge military kind of D o d. Thinking the agility makes total sense. Been following that for a couple of years now, is this business side of it that the business operations Or is there a tactical edge military component here both. Or is that next ahead for the Navy? >>Yeah. You know, I think there will ultimately both You know that the Navy's big challenge right now is audit readiness. So what they're focusing on next is migrating all of these financial systems into one General ledger for audit readiness, which has never been done before. I think you know, audit readiness press. The the D has really been problematic. So the next thing that they're focusing on in their journey is not only consolidating to one financial ledger, but also to bring on new users from working capital fund commands across the Navy into this one platform that is secure and stable, more fragile system that was previously in place. So we expect over time, once all of the systems migrate, that maybe your API is going to double in size, have more users, and the infrastructure is already going to be in place. Um, we are seeing use of all of the tactical edge abilities in other parts of the Navy. Really exciting programs for the Navy is making use of our snowball and snowball edge capabilities. And, uh, maybe your key that that this follows part of their migration. >>I saw snow cones out. There was no theme there. So the news Jassy tweeted. You know, it's interesting to see the progression, and you mentioned the audit readiness. The pattern of cloud is implementing the business model infrastructure as a service platform as a service and sass, and on the business side, you've got to get that foundational infrastructure audit, readiness, monitoring and then the platform, and then ultimately, the application so a really, you know, indicator that this is happening much faster. So congratulations. But I want to bring that back to now. The d o d. Generally, because this is the big surge infrastructure platform sas. Um, other sessions at the Public sector summit here on the D. O. D is the cybersecurity maturity model, which gets into this notion of base lining at foundation and build on top. What is this all about? The CME EMC. What does it mean? >>Yeah, well, I'll tell you, you know, I think the most people know that are U S defense industrial base of what we call the Dev has experienced and continues to experience an increasing number of cyber attacks. So every year, the loss of sensitive information and an election property across the United States, billions each year. And really, it's our national security. And there's many examples for weapons systems and sensitive information has been compromised. The F 35 Joint Strike Fighter C 17 the Empty Nine Reaper. All of these programs have unfortunately, experience some some loss of sensitive information. So to address this, the d o. D. Has put in place, but they all see em and see which is the Cybersecurity Maturity Models certification framework. It's a mouthful, which is really designed to ensure that they did the defense industrial base. And all of the contractors that are part of the Defense Supply Chain network are protecting federal contract information and controlled unclassified information, and that they have the appropriate levels of cyber security in place to protect against advanced, persistent, persistent threats. So in CMC, there are essentially five levels with various processes and practices in each level. And this is a morton not only to us as a company but also to all of our partners and customers. Because with new programs the defense, investor base and supply take, companies will be required to achieve a certain see MNC certification level based on the sensitivity of the programs data. So it's really important initiative for the for the Deal E. And it's really a great way for us to help >>Jennifer. Thanks so much for taking the time to come on the phone. I really appreciate it. I know there's so much going on the D o d Space force Final question real quick for a minute. Take a minute to just share what trends within the d o. D you're watching around this modernization. >>Yeah, well, it has been a really exciting time to be serving our customers in the D. And I would say there's a couple of things that we're really excited about. One is the move to tactical edge that you've talked about using out at the tactical edge. We're really excited about capabilities like the AWS Snowball Edge, which helped Navy Ear Key hybrid. So the cloud more quickly but also, as you mentioned, our AWS cone, which isn't even smaller military grades for edge computing and data transfer device that was just under £5 kids fitness entered mailbox or even a small backpacks. It's a really cool capability for our diode, the warfighters. Another thing. That's what we're really watching. Mostly it's DRDs adoption of artificial intelligence and machine learning. So you know, Dear D has really shown that it's pursuing deeper integration of AI and ML into mission critical and business systems for organizations like the Joint Artificial Intelligence. Enter the J and the Army AI task force to help accelerate the use of cloud based AI really improved war fighting abilities And then finally, what I'd say we're really excited about is the fact that D o. D is starting Teoh Bill. New mission critical systems in the cloud born in the cloud, so to speak. Systems and capabilities like a BMS in the airports. Just the Air Force Advanced data management system is being constructed and created as a born in the cloud systems. So we're really, really excited about those things and think that continued adoption at scale of cloud computing The idea is going to ensure that our military and our nation maintain our technological advantages, really deliver on mission critical systems. >>Jennifer, Thanks so much for sharing that insight. General General manager at Amazon Web services handling the Department of Defense Super important transformation efforts going on across the government modernization. Certainly the d o d. Leading the effort. Thank you for your time. This is the Cube's coverage here. I'm John Furrier, your host for AWS Public sector Summit online. It's a cube. Virtual. We're doing the remote interviews and getting all the content and share that with you. Thank you for watching. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

>> From the SiliconANGLE media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of theCUBE Insights, powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, I want to do a quasi post-mortem on AWS re:Invent, and put the company's prospects into context using some ETR spending data. First I want to try to summarize some of the high-level things that we heard at the event. I won't go into all the announcements in any kind of great detail, there's a lot that's been written out there on what was announced, but I will touch on a few of the items that I felt were noteworthy and try to give you some of the main themes. I then want to dig into some of the spending data and share with you what's happening from a buyer's perspective in the context of budgets, and we'll specifically focus on AWS's business lines. And then I'm going to bring my colleague Stu Miniman into the conversation, and we're going to talk about AWS's hybrid strategy in some detail, and then we're going to wrap. So, the first thing that I want to do is give you a brief snapshot of the re:Invent takeaways, and I'll try to give you some commentary that you might not have heard coming out of the show. So, to summarize re:Invent, AWS is not being on rinsing and repeating, they have this culture of raising the bar, but one thing that doesn't change is this shock and awe that they do of announcements, it comes out each year, and it's obvious. It's always a big theme, and this year Andy Jassy really wanted to underscore the company's feature and functional lead relative to some of the other cloud providers. Now the overarching theme that Jassy brought home in his keynote this year is that the cloud is enabling transformation. Not just teeny, incremental improvement, he's talking about transformation that has to start at the very top of the organization, so it's somewhat a challenge and an appeal to enterprises, generally versus what is often a message to startups at re:Invent. And he was specifically talking to the c-suite here. Jassy didn't say this, but let me paraphrase something that John Furrier said in his analysis on theCUBE. He said if you're not born in the cloud, you basically better find the religion and get reborn, or you're going to be out of business. Now, one of the other big trends that we saw this year at re:Invent, and it's starting to come into focus, is that AWS is increasingly leveraging its acquisition of Annapurna with these new chip sets that give it higher performance and better cost structures and utilization than it can with merchant silicon, and specifically Intel. And here's what I'll say about that. AWS is one of the largest, if not the largest customer of Intel's in the world. But here's the thing, Intel wants a level playing field. We've seen this over the years, where it's in Intel's best interest to have that level playing field as much as possible, in its customer base. You saw it in PCs, in servers, and now you're seeing it in cloud. The more balanced the customer base is, the better it is for Intel because no one customer can exert undue influence and control over Intel. Intel's a consummate arms dealer, and so from AWS's perspective it makes sense to add capabilities and innovate, and vertically integrate in a way that can drive proprietary advantage that they can't necessarily get from Intel, and drive down costs. So that's kind of what's happening here. The other big thing we saw is latency, what Pat Gelsinger calls the law of physics. Well a few years ago, AWS, they wouldn't even acknowledge on-prem workloads, and Stu and I are going to talk about that, but clearly sees hybrid as an opportunity now. I'm going to talk more on detail and drill into this with Stu, but a big theme of the event was moving Outposts closer to on-prem workloads, that aren't going to be moving into the cloud anytime soon. And then also the edge, as well as, for instance, Amazon's Wavelength announcement that puts Outposts into 5G networks at major carriers. Now another takeaway is that AWS is unequivocal about the right tool for the right job, and you see this really prominently in database, where I've counted at least 10 purpose-built databases in the portfolio. AWS took some really indirect shots at Oracle, maybe even direct shots at Oracle, which, Oracle treats Oracle Database as a hammer, and every opportunity as a nail, antithetical to AWS's philosophy. Now there were a ton of announcements around AI and specifically the SageMaker IDE, specifically Studio, SageMaker Studio, which stood out as a way to simplify machine intelligence. Now this approach addresses the skillset problem. What I mean by that is, the lack of data scientists to leverage AI. But one of the things that we're kind of watching here is, it's going to be interesting to see if it exacerbates the AI black box issue. Making the logic behind the machines' outcomes less transparent. Now, all of this builds up to what we've been calling next-gen cloud, and we're entering a new era that goes well beyond infrastructure as a service, and lift and shift workloads. And it really ties back to Jassy's theme of transformation, where analytics approaches new computing models, like serverless, which are fundamental now, as is security, and a topic that we've addressed in detail in prior Breaking Analysis segments. AWS even made an announcement around quantum computing as a service, they call it Braket. So those are some of the things that we were watching. All right, now let's pivot and look at some of the data. Here's a reminder of the macro financials for AWS, we get some decent data around AWS financials, and this chart, I've showed before, but it's AWS's absolute revenue and quarterly revenue year on year with the growth rates. It's very large and it's growing, that's the bottom line, but growth is slowing to 35% last quarter as you can see. But to iterate, or reiterate, we're looking at a roughly 36 billion dollar company, growing at 35% a year, and you don't see that often. And so, this market, it still has a long way to go. Now let's look at some of the ETR tactical data on spending. Now remember, spending attentions according to ETR are reverting to pre-2018 levels, and are beginning to show signs of moderation. This chart shows spending momentum based on what ETR calls net score, and that represents the net percentage of customers that are spending more on a particular platform. Now, here's what's really interesting about this chart. It show the net scores for AWS across a number of the company's markets, comparing the gray, which is October '18 survey, with the blue, July '19, and the yellow, October '19. And you can see that workspaces, machine learning and AI, cloud overall, analytic databases, they're all either up or holding the same levels as a year ago, so you see AWS is bucking the trend, and even though spending on containers appears to be a little less than last year, it's holding firm from the July survey, so my point is that AWS is really bucking that trend from the overall market, and is continuing to do very very well. Now this next slide takes the same segments, and looks at what ETR refers to as market share, which is a measure of pervasiveness in the survey. So as you can see, AWS is gaining in virtually all of its segments. So even though spending overall is softening, AWS in the marketplace, AWS is doing a much better job than its peers on balance. Now, the other thing I want to address is this notion of repatriation. I get this a lot, as I'm sure do other analysts. People say to me, "Dave, you should really look into this. "We hear from a lot of customers "that they moved to the cloud, "now they're moving workloads back on-prem "because the cloud is so expensive." Okay, so they say "You should look into this." So this next chart really does look into this. What the chart shows is across those same offerings from AWS, so the same services, the percent of customers that are replacing AWS, so I'm using this as a proxy for repatriation. Look at the numbers, they're low single digits. You see traditional enterprise vendors' overall business growing in the low single digits, or shrinking. AWS's defections are in the low single digits, so, okay, now look at this next chart. What about adoptions, if the cloud is slowing down, you'd expect a slowdown in new adoptions. What this data shows is the percent of customers that are responding, that they're adding AWS in these segments, so there's a new platform. So look, across the board, you're seeing increases of most of AWS's market segments. Notably, in respondents citing AWS overall at the very rightmost bars, you are admittedly seeing some moderation relative to last year. So that's a bit of a concern and clearly something to watch, but as I showed you earlier, AWS overall, that same category, is holding firm, because existing customers are spending more. All right, so that's the data portion of the conversation, hopefully we put that repatriation stuff to bed, and I now want to bring in Stu Miniman to the conversation, and we're going to talk more about multicloud, hybrid, on-prem, we'll talk about Outposts specifically, so Stu, welcome, thank you very much for coming on. >> Thanks Dave, glad to be here with you. >> All right, so let's talk about, let's start with multicloud, and dig into the role of Kubernetes a little bit, let me sort of comment on how I think AWS looks at multicloud. I think they look at multicloud as using multiple public clouds, and they look at on-prem as hybrid. Your thoughts on AWS's perspective on multicloud, and what's going on in the market. >> Yeah, and first of all, Dave, I'll step back for a second, you talked about how Amazon has for years had shots against Oracle. The one that Amazon actually was taking some shots at this year was Microsoft, so, not only did they talk about Oracle, they talked about customers looking to flee their SQL customers, and I lead into that because when you talk about hybrid cloud, Dave, if you talked to any analyst over the last three, four years and you say "Okay, what vendor is best position in hybrid, "which cloud provider has the "best solution for hybrid cloud?" Microsoft is the one that we'd say, because their strong domain in the enterprise, of course with Windows, the move to Office 365, the clear number two player in Azure, and they've had Azure Stack for a number of years, and they had Azure Pack before that, they'd had a number of offerings, they just announced this year Azure Arc, so three, we've had at least three generations of hybrid multicloud solutions from Microsoft, Amazon has a different positioning. As we've talked about for years, Dave, not only doesn't Amazon like to use the words hybrid or multicloud, for the most part, but they do have a different viewpoint. So the partnership with VMware expanded what they're doing on hybrid, and while Andy Jassy, he at least acknowledges that multicloud is a thing, when he sat down with John Furrier ahead of the show, he said "Well, there might be reasons why customers "either there's a group inside "that has a service that they want, "that they might want to do a secondary cloud, "or if I'm concerned that I might fall out of love "with this primary supplier I have, "I might need a second one." Andy said in not so, just exactly, said "Look, we understand multicloud is a thing." Now, architecturally, Amazon's positioning on this is that you should use Amazon, and they should be the center of what you're doing. You talked a lot about Outposts, Outposts, critical to what Amazon is doing in this environment. >> And we're going to talk about that, but you're right, Amazon doesn't like to talk about multicloud as a term, however, and by the way, they say that multicloud is more expensive, less secure, more complicated, more costly, and probably true, but you're right, they are acknowledging at least, and I would predict just as hybrid, which we want to talk about right now, they'll be talking about, they'll be participating in some way, shape, or form, but before we go to multicloud, or hybrid, what about Kubernetes? >> So, right, first of all, we've been at the KubeCon show for years, we've watching Kubernetes since the early days. Kubernetes is not a magic layer, it does not automatically say "Hey, I've got my application, I can move it willy-nilly." Data gravity's really important, how I architect my microservices solution absolutely is hugely important. When I talk to my friends in the app dev world, Dave, hybrid is the way they are building things a lot, if I took some big monolithic application, and I start pulling it apart, if I have that data warehouse or data store in my data center, I can't just migrate that to the cloud, David Floyer for years has been talking about the cost of migration, so microservice architecture's the way most customers are building, a hybrid environment often is there. Multicloud, we're not doing cloud bursting, we're not just saying "Oh hey, I woke up today, "and cloud A is cheaper than cloud B, "let me move my workload." Absolutely, I had a great conversation with a good Amazon customer that said two years ago, when they deployed Kubernetes, they did it on Azure. You want to know why, the Azure solution was more mature and they were doing Azure, they were doing things there, but as Amazon fully embraced Kubernetes, not just sitting on top of their solution, but launched the service, which is EKS, they looked at it, and they took an application, and they migrated it from Azure to Amazon. Now, migrating it, there's the underlying services and everybody does things a little bit different. If you look at some of the tooling out there, great one to look at is HashiCorp has some great tooling that can span across multiple clouds, but if you look at how they deploy, to Azure, to Google, to AWS, it's different, so you got to have different code, there's different skillsets, it's not a utility and just generic compute and storage and networking underneath, you need to have specific skills there, so Kubernetes, absolutely when I've been talking to users for the last few years and saying "Why are you using Kubernetes?" The answer is "I need that eject lever, "so that if I want to leave AWS with an application, "I can do that, and it's not press a button and it's easy, "that easy, but I know that I can move that, "'cause underneath the pods, and the containers, "and all those pieces, the core building blocks "are the same, I will have to do some reconfiguration," as we know with the migration, usually I can get 80 to 90 percent of the way there, and then I need to make the last minute-- >> So it's a viable hedge on your AWS strategy, okay. >> Absolutely, and I've talked to lots of customers, Amazon shows that most cloud Kubernetes solutions out there are running on Amazon, and when I go talk to customers, absolutely, a lot of the customers that are doing Kubernetes in the public cloud are doing that on Amazon, and one of the main reasons they're using it is in case they do want to, as a hedge against being all-in on Amazon. >> All right, let's talk about Outposts, specifically as part of Amazon's hybrid strategy, and now their edge strategy as well. >> Right, so Azure Stack, I mentioned earlier from Microsoft has been out there for a few years. It has not been doing phenomenally well, when I was at Microsoft Ignite this year, I heard basically certain government agencies and service providers are using it and basically acting, delivering Azure as a service, but, Azure Stack is basically an availability zone in my data center, and Amazon looked at this and says "That's not how we're going to build this." Outposts is an extension of your local region, so, while people look at the box and they say, I took a picture of the box and Shu was like, "Hey, whose server and what networking card, "and the chipset and everything," I said "Hold on a second. "You might look at that box, "and you might be able to open the door, "but Amazon is going to deploy that, "they're going to manage that, "really you should put a curtain in front of it "and say pay no attention to what's behind here, "because this is Amazon gear, it's an Amazon "as a service in your data center, "and there are only a few handful of services "that are going to be there at first." If I want to even use S3, day one, the Amazon native services, you're going to just use S3 in your local region. Well, what if I need special latency? Well, Amazon's going to look at that, and see what's available, so, it is Amazon hardware, the Amazon software, the Amazon control plane, reaching into that data center, and very scalable, it's, Amazon says over time it should be able to go to thousands of racks if you need, so absolutely that cloud experience closer to my environment, but where I need certain applications, certain latency, certain pieces of data that I need to store there. >> And we've seen Amazon dip its toe into the hybrid on-prem market with Snowball and Greengrass and stuff like that before, but this is a much bigger commitment, one might even say capitulation, to hybrid. >> Well, right, and the reason why I even say, this is hybrid, but it's all Amazon, it is not "Take my private cloud and my public cloud "and tie 'em together," it's not, "I've taken cloud to customer" or IBM solution, where they're saying "I'm going to put a rack here "and a rack there, and it's all going to work the same." It is the same hardware and software, but it is not all of the pieces-- >> VMware and Outposts is hybrid. >> Really interesting, Dave, as the native AWS solution is announced first here in 2019, and the VMware solution on Outposts isn't going to be available until 2020. Draw what you will, it's been a strong partnership, there are exabytes of data in the VMware cloud on AWS now, but yeah, it's a little bit of a-- >> Quid pro quo, I think is what you call that. >> Well I'd say Amazon is definitely, "We're going to encroach a little bit on your business, "and we're going to woke you into our environment, too." >> Okay, let's talk about the edge, and Outposts at the edge, they announced Wavelength, which is essentially taking Outposts and putting it into 5G networks at carriers. >> Yeah, so Outposts is this building block, and what Amazon did is they said, "This is pretty cool, "we actually have our environment "and we can do other things with it." So sometimes they're just taking, pretty much that same block, and using it for another service, so one that you didn't mention was AWS Local Zones. So it is not a whole new availability zone, but it is basically extending the cloud, multi-tenant, the first one is done for the TME market in Los Angeles, and you expect, how does Amazon get lower latency and get closer, and get specialized services, local zones are how they're going to do this. The Wavelength solution is something they built specifically for the telco environment. I actually got to sit down with Verizon, this was at least an 18 month integration, anybody that's worked in the telco space knows that it's usually not standard gear, there's NEBB certification, there's all these things, it's often even DC power, so, it is leveraging Outposts, but it is not them rolling the same thing into Verizon that they did in their environments. Similar how they're going to manage it, but as you said, it's going to push to the telco edge and in a partnership with Verizon, Vodafone, SK, Telecom, and some others that will be rolling out across the globe, they are going to have that 5G offering and this little bit, I actually buy it from Amazon, but you still buy the 5G from your local carrier. It's going to roll out in Chicago first, and enabling all of those edge applications. >> Well what I like about the Amazon strategy at the edge is, and I've said this before, on a number of occasions on theCUBE Breaking Analysis, they're taking programmable infrastructure to the edge, the edge will be won by developers in my view, and Amazon obviously has got great developer traction, I don't see that same developer traction at HPE, even Dell EMC proper, even within VMware, and now they've got Pivotal, they've got an opportunity there, but they've really got a long way to go in terms of appealing to developers, whereas Amazon I think is there, obviously, today. >> Yeah, absolutely true, Dave. When we first started going to the show seven years ago, it was very much the hoodie crowd, and all of those cloud-native, now, as you said, it's those companies that are trying to become born again in the cloud, and do these environments, because I had a great conversation with Andy Jassy on air, Dave, and I said "Do we just shrink wrap solutions "and make it easy for the enterprise to deploy, "or are we doing the enterprise a disservice?" Because if you are truly going to thrive and survive in the cloud-native era, you've got to go through a little bit of pain, you need to have more developers. I've seen lots of stats about how fast people are hiring developers and I need to, it's really a reversal of that old outsourcing trend, I really need IT and the business working together, being agile, and being able to respond and leverage data. >> It's that hyperscaler mentality that Jassy has, "We got engineers, we'll spend time "on creating a better mousetrap, on lowering costs," whereas the enterprise, they don't have necessarily as many resources or as many engineers running around, they'll spend money to save time, so your point about solutions I think is right on. We'll see, I mean look, never say never with Amazon. We've seen it, certainly with on-prem, hybrid, whatever you want to call it, and I think you'll see the same with multicloud, and so we watch. >> Yeah, Dave, the analogy I gave in the final wrap is "Finding the right cloud is like Goldilocks "finding the perfect solution." There's one solution out there, I think it's a little too hot, and you're probably not smart enough to use it just yet. There's one solution that, yeah, absolutely, you can use all of your credits to leverage it, and will meet you where you are and it's great, and then you've got Amazon trying to fit everything in between, and they feel that they are just right no matter where you are on that spectrum, and that's why you get 36 billion growing at 35%, not something I've seen in the software space. >> All right, Stu, thank you for your thoughts on re:Invent, and thank you for watching this episode of theCUBE Insights, powered by ETR, this is Dave Vellante for Stu Miniman, we'll see you next time. (techno music)

>>long from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back here in the Cube, we continue our coverage here Day one, a day Ws re invent 2019 were on the show floor You could probably see behind the city's packed is exciting. Great exhibits, great keynotes this morning, Dan. A lot from Andy Jassy, Justin Warren. John Walls were joined by Jasper Singh, who is the founder and CEO of DRUVA. Good to have you here on the Cube. Thank you very much. And I say a whiner whose principal technologist at a. W s and I say it Good to see you this morning. Thanks very much. Thanks for being here. First off, tell me a little bit about drove up for folks at home. Might not be familiar. And then we're gonna get into your relationship with a W s. And why the two of you are sitting in first. Just a little thumbnail about druva. >>Sure, as we all know, data is growing by leaps and bounds on dhe. Data management prediction has been a big challenge for all enterprises driven the SAS platform very long. AWS, which helps him manage to get up and do it from the center to deal in the cloud toe at the educations, simply console to manage protection governance management on a single pane of glass. All >>right, so the two of you together we were talking before the interview a little bit about maybe some of these common attributes or shared values which make your partnership. I wouldn't say unique, but certainly make it work. So go over that a little bit about maybe we're that synergy exists where you see that overlap in your mission and why you think it's working so well for you to reveal your partnership. Once you're Jeffrey, why don't you jump on that? Isaiah? I >>think we saw a big chain in the enterprise landscape Hunter team and I made personally met Fiona Vogel back then and understood that big change and enterprise buying when it comes to a public cloud, data belongs to public cloud, the weeds growing and eventually manage on rebuild the entire rocket picture around the whole notion off a centralized sort of a data lake to predict it manageable on Arab us. We thought about eight of us in public cloud of completely different operating system. It's not just not about our technology team kicked out of the business changes with people want to buy an S L. A. Across the global consistent price point so delivered already have toe, understand how they built differently, operate differently security point of view cost part of you and also sell differently. You're gonna market partnerships you're setting motion procurement. All changes to be redesigned, reactivated entire drove our experience around Public Cloud And Amazon is in a great partner all throughout to build a story on top of the platform not just to based technology on, but are breeding a printing model on selling motion on and course introduced to customer benefits on. >>So one of the things that customers tell us is that when they come to the cloud, they want less stuff to manage. And it can be difficult sometimes to deal the new set of primitives. You know, the way things worked in your data center understanding locality, these sorts of things. A lot of this stuff gets abstracted in the cloud, and so druva help sort of take away all of that and create a simple solution for customers. They've been doing this for a long time, actually, you know, offering full SAS solution to customers not only who want to protect data in the cloud, but also on Prem to the cloud. And the way that eight of us goes about an Amazon in general goes about creating things for customers is way. Have what we call a working backwards process. And it all ties back to our first of 14 leaders, principles, customer obsession. And so one of the things that's really nice about working with druva is that they also have a working backwards process. And so we get to do a lot of that stuff together there, also a customer. So, you know, it's not just a partnership there. Also a customer, because they operate this SAS platform. And so, for quite a long time, for example, they've been one of the larger dynamodb customers. They've developed tight relationships with our service teams way our field knows them, you know, if you ask the field, you know, name a backup provider, you know chances are pretty good. They're gonna know Drew right, so and because they're all in on eight of us, it gives us an opportunity to launch things together. So when we have new storage classes in the past and new devices, new offerings Drew has been a launch partner on multiple occasions. I >>was gonna ask about that. A lien on AWS, like as a customer if I'm buying some clouds. So it's like I want to buy an S l A a cz you mentioned. Just do it. Do it. Really care which cloud you you picked as a customer >>customer. You really cared about an SL for for data recovery, which you need a guarantee across the group. That's a simplest part. So in that context, they don't care. But it goes beyond that. Data and infrastructure is very connected to shoot for the enterprise they wanted, you know, just to be recovered. But integrated with other service is, for example, Panis is are they have other value. Our service is you want to be part of the whole story from that perspective because there is so integral to their lesson strategy. They do care about where we're building this new every center from my data management, but they are getting more and more fragmented in both centralized way to manage. The more centralized way happens to be on the best known of embroidery, which happens to have all the service is to surround it of it. You do start to care about you know how they're holding me may transform the journey of data for the customer >>Ueno from the Kino this morning that I think it's only about 3% of total spend is on clouds, and there is room for a cloud to grow here. But that also means that there's a lot of data that sitting out there that isn't actually in the cloud. So a cloud based backup service like how the customers who already have existing onsite data, How should they think about this? You mentioned that they need to think about it in a different way and change the way that you experienced backup. So how how the customers start to understand what they should be doing differently and how they should think about their data in a different way. To start looking at something like the river >>Absolutely reversal. Ashley's got people, plus one that typically customers have 3.1 bucket solutions in their in their environment. They don't accept it, but they do have multiple softness. They always are the new one to replace an old one, but it still keep their legacy on what they need to do. What I do when I was to look for meditators before driven were tons and tons of legacy being managing very cars. And then I was always very, very hard. You have to spend a lot of time to manage all throughout, withdrew. Our philosophy is that your next generation of workloads, your next edition of evolution towards loud used to happen in river for a legacy. You could still keep the legacy software's IBM better cars. Let's keep on doing what you do with them. You're next. Attrition off architecture refresh, Refresh should happen in >>a zone old back of admin Who's gone through that process multiple times. Managing tape is a nightmare. Yes, I can. I can absolutely attest that that is the process. That enterprise tends to go through it like you want to pick something that you want to put all the new stuff on. Do you? Do you see anyone actually bringing data from their old system that they migrated across. So they just go, You know what? We'll just wait for it to die. >>I think a lot of people do a mix of both right today. They may have a cold data with a more humanity move toe deep archive a glacier from active data management part if you want to see how do it, how do they change processes to impact date evolution From now on 1st 1st 1st and foremost before they started, Look at old arcade media could be born on a CZ. Well, I think with evolution of deep archive, evolution off other service is much cheaper than tapes. It's about time that people start now, look at older technology that how do you know Maybe encompasses? Well, >>yeah, To me, this stuff is kind of hard. All right, on down might be oversimplifying, but you've got your warm data. You got stuff, it's cold. That might sit there for years. And we're gonna work, you know, we're never gonna worry about it again. But I have to decide what's warmer. What's cold. If I've got legacy and I've got new, I've got to decide what I want to bring over what I don't and then I've got the edge. I've got a i ot I've got all this stuff. No exponential growth data scale. So to me, it's it's It's a confounding problem of I'm in enterprise. It's already got my stuff going, as opposed to. If I'm totally born on the cloud, right, that's a how do you deal with? It's easy to do it from scratch. It's a lot harder to do it when I've got I'm bringing all his baggage with me and why do I want to bring on that headache? >>So I want you to think about it, says that you know, where would you want to innovate and start their first like a zombie? This is said that this morning in Kenya, or that whenever someone tells you you have one tool for it all, they probably wrong about it. Right? You. It's all for the best tool for the best problems. So you look at the way you really wouldn't want it any way you start there first to bring in the cloud first, then it slowly insanity. Start to lower your workload by getting rid of legacy or by re factoring in overtime. >>You've been doing this for a little while, So I assume that this isn't This isn't something that only just a couple of people of dipping their toe in the water and trying out. You told us before they actually had quite a bit of success with this. >>I think whenever there's an interesting problem, this competition. So we do have some new age companies coming to tow. What we do for a living drama is heading scale we announced this morning. We're $100 revenue run rate of business. So you just thought about building it right? But as I mentioned, it's about operating unit scale will be run about six million back after a week, with more than with better than 0.1% efficiency. It successfully the amount of paranoia going into security cost optimization Dev Ops Mount Off Hardware goes into building a good market motion to buy from marketplace by consumption models is very different from from legacy. Technology for side is only the first body, but Amazon has done for industry, which we're leading with cheerleading and we're falling. Example off is how you transform the buying baby of customer was something radically simple than ever before. >>You know, as a that's been been really a topic, and he's talked about it a lot. This transformation versus transition. It's kind of like being a little bit pregnant, you know, you have to transform yourself right and maybe it's not dipping the toe, but it's diving in that deep end. So from the AWS perspective and from what we've been hearing, just free talk about put it in that in that context, if you will, about people who are, I guess, willing to make a full fledged commitment and jump in and go is supposed to dabble in a little bit and maybe being a little bit pregnant, >>I mean something you mentioned earlier about two people. Just let let stuff rot. Yes, there is some of that like, don't get me wrong. I talked with customers all the time and they have three different backup providers. But the fact is, is that when they go to the cloud they look at okay, where can I cut and run, you know, And when they look at their the things that not only matter in order for them to transition their operations into the cloud. But then they look at, like, the new rate of data creation that they've got going on in the cloud. They sort of a lot of customers. They look at the old models of of enterprise, back of sweets and they say, Okay, I know how to operate this, But do I want to? Or they look at it, You know, some of the finer things. Like, you know, am I doing all the right things from a security perspective? In all of the right connection points across all of the right pieces of software, the answer may not be yes. Or maybe the answer is yes. And they look at other things, like, you know, what is my r p o gonna be? What is my rto gonna be? Can I abandon my eight of us account because of about actor scenario and go to another account and do a restore without having to have infrastructure in there? First you can if it's in somebody else's infrastructure in this case druva right. So, like there's there's a hard way to do things in an easy way to do things and drew has done things. Arguably, I would say they've done things the hard way so that customers can do things the easy way. It's probably a good way to characterize it. Early on, Druva decided that they didn't want to be in the infrastructure business, so they built something on top of a platform that would allow them to stop having to worry about that stuff. And if you're trying to on board a lot of customers concurrently than that, something that you want to scale automatically right, you know these kinds of things. When we talk to customers and customers ask us questions like You know what? Our customers using toe back up in eight of us. They often ask qualifying questions like I'm in a certain region or I'm in govcloud or I have too much data on prim for my bandwidth capabilities. And I don't really want to get into a new three year contract because I want to shut down this data center in October and it's, you know, maybe it's September, you know, maybe I don't have a lot of runway on, so they're looking for things like support for Snowball Edge. They're looking for things like not having Thio worry about. Do I have to modify all of my traditional applications to take advantage of other storage tears or my cold data? How do I get it into something like Amazon has three glacier deep archives without having to really know how that works on DSO. When these folks look at the clouds, they think aws because of all of the things that AWS enables them to do without them having to have, ah, a massive learning curve. When it comes to data protection in the cloud, Dhruv is doing the same thing. >>Well, the good news for Justin and me and Isaiah's, Jasper said. You hit 100 million. So dinner's on you tonight. This is great. I look, congratulations. Thank you. That is a big number and congratulate great success. Wish you all the best down the road and thank you both for being with us here on the Q. We appreciate that. Thanks very much. Back with more live here in Las Vegas. You're watching the Cuban eight of us. Raven 2019

(upbeat electronic music) >> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hi everyone, welcome back to theCUBE, we're live in Las Vegas for AWS Amazon Web Services re:Invent 2018. It's the sixth year of theCUBE coverage. Two sets wall-to-wall. Day two of day four, day one of our broadcast, two more days, wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier, your host. Our next two guests are from Druva. We've got Jaspreet Singh, CUBE alumni, founder and CEO, and Mike Palmer, chief product officer from Druva. You guys are in the middle of it, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks very much. >> Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Good to see you guys. I want to get into it because I just had another guest on earlier. We talked about the holy trinity of infrastructure has been compute, networking, and storage, right? Those things are not, those are evolving, now they're coming together and they're changing. You get a lot of compute here, you can do more storage there, you got networking. We're expecting to hear a lot of announcements about connectivity. But the new dynamics of the infrastructure really encapsulates why cloud's been so successful. Okay great, cloud's great, DevOps, microservices. Check check check. We all love that, we believe it. But the big thing that people, I won't say be blindsided by, but aren't talking as much about is just the impact of data. Okay, you guys were out early on it, you saw the architecture in the cloud. Are people finally getting it? The cloud and data are coming together architecturally, thinking-wise, impact to customer. You guys started attacking that problem early on. What's your vibe here at re:Invent about the role of data and cloudification? >> Sure, I think if you look back and understand why cloud happened in the first place, right? So if you look at Amazon itself or AWS, it's Amazon's retail API is applied to everything IP. Where you could, we could buy and consume services on a price point across the globe as APIs. And now if you fast-forward, the right decide the compute, network is all coming together, the new realm of self serverless computing, all these turns are pioneering more and more increased data creation. Either in the data center, at the edge, or in the cloud. And unless you do something more holistic, sort of manage it, to protect it, to manage it, it's getting harder and harder to put your arms around the data growth. And cloud is a great answer to the whole data management, or the whole creation and management of data, given that the traditional systems are not very, very defined in the way data is going. Data used to be in Oracle, and VMware, and Siebel Systems, and everything else, now it's more image sensor, media text, apps which have been created. The new realm of data is very hard to put arms around with traditional routes of putting in the box in the middle of data. That's why the cloud is key to it. >> On the product side, you guys have been attacking the data. Amazon's expecting to announce here, they've done some pre-announcements, the role of consistency. It's something that we've talked about on theCUBE in our studio and at events. You guys have been on this from day one. Cloud operations on-premises, and the cloud should look the same, has to be consistent. Andy Jassy is going to be banging that drum tomorrow in his keynote. You guys have been part of AWS for a long time, your relationship. Are they getting that messaging from you guys? (chuckles) I mean, Andy, they all be in the public cloud now that he's back on-premise. So he's listening to the customers. I mean, Andy's very straight up about it. He's like, hey, I'm a big guy. I can handle the criticism. Customers want it on-premise. I'd love her when it come to the cloud, but that's what they want. >> It certainly would be flattery that they took messaging from Druva. (John laughing) And I'm not sure that-- >> But you guys have been, cover the relationship with Amazon first. How long have you guys been working with Amazon? >> We work five years now. Very good relationship with Amazon. >> And the product side is impacted in their ecosystem. How are you guys doing relative to the architecture of Amazon? >> I think we're the only natively architected solution in the market today. And so, if you saw this morning, we were right there on the board with some of the companies that have been around for decades, primarily because if you think about the generations of data protection solutions where you started with tape on mainframe, and you moved to one of the four legacy providers in the client's server space, you had another one that really popped up with VMware. Druva really owns the cloud space. And that requires, as you mentioned, a different architecture, adoption of more of an object storage model, the ability to natively store data in a file system in the cloud. That's different than what anyone has built in the past, and I think that's what the relationship with AWS is built on. >> So you think that Jassy's going on his on-premise mess-ee-mah consistently validates what you guys do? >> Without a doubt. He's gotten a lot of customers moving to AWS over the years, and some of them have some real barriers. I think AWS is doing what they always have done well. Listen to their customers, create solutions for those customers, and in the case of Druva, for example, being able to be integrated in a Snowball Edge which is unique to Druva, serving those customers, moving data to the cloud but allowing 'em local restore? Give 'em-- >> Andy Jassy announces AWS on-premise which is what we're expecting to see tomorrow. It's maybe some sort of appliance or something along those lines. We'll see what it comes out as. That's essentially the Azure stack model done right. From their premier perspective. Amazon on Amazon, Amazon on-premise, you can run it in the cloud. This sounds like a tailwind for you guys. How will that impact your business? How is Druva going to be impacted? To me, it would seem like it's just, you don't miss a beat. Sounds like it's going to be a good thing. Your thoughts. >> I think as Mike mentioned when he joined the company as well, right? The beauty of, what I didn't even realize, is that every time Amazon improves the platform, Druva is almost automatically benefited, given they're so, they really build on them. So when Amazon announced Snowball Edge, we were a launch partner with them, and third-party apps should be provision on Snowball Edge. I have a different take on the on-premise word than what the world think of. I think ultimately cloud or no cloud, it's all about helping the customer. If my understanding is correct, what Amazon is trying to do is to create a better way for customers to adapt more to public cloud, which is going deep in data center. There's a difference between doing enough on the edge to make the way for the cloud versus trying to do the legacy of going on-premise. So as Amazon creates that corridor for the option, Druva's naturally a good fit for it and part of it. >> Yeah, certainly that being cloud native with AWS is going to give you guys a good lift. Kind of a lay up question there. Let's get into the customer latency question, 'cause this has come up, expect to hear this a lot as well. Latency matters, latency certainly is a key criteria. Why the on-premise strategy? I would say Snowball, they're kickin' the tires. They did the VMware RDS deal on-premise, then so, this was not like an awakening for Amazon, they were going down that road. A little bit more deeper. What is the impact to customers, in you guys' opinion, of the move from Amazon? What's your thoughts? How deep in the enterprise does it go? How will this impact cloud migration? Is it going to change lift-and-shift to be more of a container strategy where you containerize it, then shift it? Some will not shift? What's your thoughts on the impact of cloud on-premise? >> So, I think there's three kinds of clouds. One is where you're trying to build any new applications in cloud which is where mostly Amazon comes in. Second is you can build a pre-made SaaS application. And third is the lift-and-shift. They're trying to still keep it tied to the data center, and putting some local in the cloud. And the third category is where latency matters. And just like virtualization, the last critical app to be virtualized was Exchange and SQL, right? When Exchange got virtualized, the data center opened the door, right? >> Yeah. >> The last critical app left in the way for major clouded option is, seems like Oracle. So which is where our RDS on-premise announced, which is where latency becomes key if you have to adopt some of those financial applications being built in the cloud where hyper-critical latency or uptime is needed. So that's a last hinge for some of the large enterprises to see more clouded option. >> Mike, talk about the product innovations. So people that don't know Druva, they see a lot of hype out there in this market. A lot of advertising, a lot of funding, venture-backed funding, you guys are startup. Pretty competitive. Where are you guys winning? What are the key innovations in the product that you guys have? Take a minute to explain your key value for your customers. >> Well, the first thing I think we want our customers to remember is if you're moving your workloads into an Amazon environment, or you're adopting cloud, we're the only natively architected solution. So just like you would have bought, a competitor for example in the VMware space, you're going to buy Druva because of its advantages to scale with Amazon in terms of its compute, to be able to allow you to tier into the various storage options that they create almost on a quarterly basis for you. But beyond all the infrastructure basics, we are converging services that otherwise were separate silos on-premises. So if you are a customer of one of the legacy providers, and you needed eDiscovery, you bought an eDiscovery product. You needed archive? You bought an archive product. You got backup, you bought backup product. The beauty of having a file system in the cloud is you can buy all of those operations against a single object store. So the definition's changing, we're offering that advantage. >> And one more point to it is also the go-to-market strategy. You saw David McCann this morning talk about Marketplace and how it's going to reshape the selling motion for them. And he mentioned Druva as the key Marketplace partner. With also tooling, or retooling the go-to-market motion of how customers wants to best buy a SaaS service and not a hardware, software model, impacting the real agility and time to market for businesses. >> Are you guys in the Marketplace? >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> You guys are on to something really big here and I think it's not well understood, the industry yet. I want to just think out loud for a minute. You mentioned that I got to buy eDiscovery, siloed app. 'Cause that's the old way. I mean, cloud's kind of a horizontally scalable fabric. Some of the best solutions aren't pure plays. So you guys are I think the first company of its kind that kind of is not in a category. I mean, I see how you want to be in a category. Gartner has the Magic Quadrant, backup and recovery, okay. You got to be in some and you win that one, you get some good marks on that. But cloud is more, it helps, maybe it could be leading backup and recovery, but it's not a solution for that. Just delivers value that happens to be for backup and recovery, powered by software. >> That's right. >> So this is the cloud dynamic of having the kind of scale. This is a whole new paradigm of software development. Your reaction to that, do you agree? >> Tell-- >> I totally agree. And I think you hit on two very important points. You know, one is data is a platform in the cloud, now it's a surface that you can operate on. You can add services, you can integrate with ecosystem services. Not everything is going to come from Druva. But unlike competitors, when you are with Druva, we are going to enable you to work with those providers. I think the second one, and the one, personally having come from an ISV environment, is this. If I have a great idea today, 65% of my customers wouldn't be in production with my idea for 2 1/2 years. >> Yeah, the time. >> That model's gone. If Amazon announces a service today as Jaspreet mentions, we want our customers to be taking advantage of that with their data today. >> Talk about the impact of the ecosystem that you guys are seeing, just thoughts on the industry. Jaspreet, you seem to have been around them. You've seen the movie a few times. What's coming? Because if these net-new workloads, again, you're going to hear Andy Jassy talk about this on the keynote tomorrow, new net-new workloads. AI's being powered, ML is being powered by compute availability. So that changes that industry. Kind of a slow, stuck in the mud for 20 years AI. You see Lumi's been around for not new science. But with compute, new magic happens. This the dynamic. What's your thoughts on the ecosystem. Those old solutions are going to die. There's going to be winners and losers. Who are the winners and who are the loser? >> I think the time will say how people take on the challenges. We believe that three core changes coming to cloud. One is serverless computing. In a big way. To drive the cost down of computing dramatically. And also converge the whole networking storage compute in a single mine center. Second is machine learning, or what in Druva we call AI of Things. How machine learning will be like mobility of 10 years ago to impact almost every single piece of software to make it smarter. >> Machine learning first is going to be a new trend. >> Exactly. >> We just called it right now on theCube. ML first. (Mike chuckling) >> And then the third trend is going to be around the nature of enterprise to analyze content. The whole Spark, or Kafka, or, the entire availability of metadata on your fingertips to sort of mine information, the available data, data on the platform, is going to be a predominant thing in the future. So put them together, the possibilities are limitless. You have a data platform which you can mine more cost effectively to the serverless, and be a lot more effective through machine learning. >> I think you guys are a data platform without a doubt. You're not backup and recovery. It's just one of the things you happen to do. And you need a category to start with. I mean, this is a data platform. And you're seeing that all over the place. I just saw a presentation from the FBI, counter-terrorism, they just can't put the puzzles together fast enough on these investigations 'cause the databases are everywhere. So just latency, talk about time to value, just ridiculous. Bad guys are winning. IT is going through the same thing. >> I think software in general has moved away from proprietary and more toward open standards, and so you're going to look for solutions that enable an ecosystem, that don't lock you into a container for one purpose, and we're taking a hold of that trend. >> Alright, guys, real quick, we going to end this segment. What's going on with Druva? Quick plug. How many people? What's on the roadmap? Where's the new innovation, where's the disruption coming? >> You take that? >> Roadmap, 600 people and growing. And the company was just an exciting place to be. Jaspreet mentions one of the most important things. Customer's think about three things. How much does it cost me? It it reducing my risk, or making me more agile? And we're focused on all three. You'll see us, serverless architecture's going to continue to reduce costs. Adopting Amazon storage tiers is going to help our customers reduce costs. From the making them better point of view, you're going to see more eDiscovery, legal hold, performance is going to improve, integration with premises, we got a lot going on at Druva. >> Lambda is so much faster than spitting up an instance, that's for sure. >> That's right, that's right. >> Your thoughts, final word. >> I think data science and machine learning is a big core focus of Druva. I think we have over 100 petabyte in management today. About, as he said, about 600 employees and growing very, very rapidly. How we monetize this 100 petabyte with the cloud through us, with customers, know how our knowledge is a big focus area for us. And also the data born in the cloud. The focus has shifted to your point of newer clouds. How do we tackle the new world clouds? Born in the cloud, born outside the core center of data center, and tackling those. A big focus for us going into next year. >> Congratulations, guys. Jaspreet, I know as founder it's always hard to stand up a company. You guys are doing well, congratulations. You got the right architecture, you got the right product roadmap. Congratulations, I'm looking forward to hearing more. Cloudification, new workloads, scale. This is the new buzzwords around competitive advantage and value. It's theCUBE bringing you all the coverage here from re:Invent. Stay with us for more after this short break. 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>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas It's theCube covering AWS re:Invent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Welcome back to our live coverage. theCube here at AWS re:Invent 2017 Our fifth year covering Amazon Web Services and their massive growth. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Lisa Martin. Here our next guest is CTO of WANdisco, Jugane Sundar. Welcome back to theCube. >> Thank you John. >> You guys are everywhere. WANdisco around the table and all these deals so you guys have been doing extremely well with (indistinct talking) property. What's new? You got some news? >> Yes we do, we recently announced integration with Amazon's AWS Snowball device which gives you the ability to do migration of on-premises workload into the Cloud without down time, and then the end result is a hybrid cloud environment that you can have an active for right environment on both sides. That's a unique capability, nobody else can do that today. >> What does it mean for AWS and their customers 'cause they're very customer focused. What are you guys bringing to the table? >> We bring a whole lot of big data workloads, analytics workloads, IoT workloads into their Cloud. And the beauty of the cloud is that you may have a 20 node cluster on-premises but you can run analytics with a 1000 nodes up in the Cloud on demand and pay just for that use. We think it's a very powerful value proposition. >> Where are you seeing the most traction? We've talking about the massive growth at 18 billion dollar annual runway that fit AWS and Andy's conversation with you John the other day said we haven't gotten that big on startups alone. So even some of the things like the advertising that AWS is now starting to do suggests they're going up the stack to the Enterprise and to the Sea Suites. Where are you guys seeing the most traction with AWS? Is it in the Enterprise space, is it in the start up space, both? >> So somewhat because of our route, what we're finding is that the large majority of Big Data customers and analytics customers from the last two, three years are all considering some form of addition of a cloud to their environment. If it's not a wholesale migration, it's a hybrid environment. It's bursting out into the cloud type of use case and what you're finding is that growth of on-premise Big Data and analytics systems is slowing down because once you get to the Cloud, the plethora of tools you have, the facilities that the scale brings to you is just unmatched. That's the trend we really see in the market. >> We've seen a lot of people go and use it in the marketplace. Juniper Networks for instance, are seeing some activity at the network. Who would have thought a network player is gonna to pick it in the Cloud, but this is what industrial-strength cloud looks like. You guys have the active active. Where does that fit in for the customers who wanna leverage the apps, and don't wanna worry about the networks? >> Exactly, the traditional model of thinking was use the Cloud for back up. You have your on-premise stuff. The cheapest way to back it up is into the Cloud. But that's really just scratching the tip of the iceberg. Once you put your data up in the Cloud, you have the ability to have it strongly consistently replicated then you can do amazing things from the Cloud. You can do a whole new analytics system. Perhaps you want to experiment with Spark in the Cloud and have it on on high on-premise that works very well. Now that both sides are actively writeable, you can create partitions of your data that are dynamically generated written to both sides. These are things that people did not consider. Once they stumble upon it, it just opens their mind to a whole new way of operating. >> Business Park, I've heard some rumors and rumblings in the developer community here that they're running Spark on Lando. People always hacking with new stuff. So Lando server list I think is coming down. How does that relate to some of things that are driving WANdisco's, how do you relate to that? Does that help you? Does that hurt you guys? >> It helps us, the way we look at it. We're all about strong replication of storage. Lando is no storage, you talk to the underlying storage of some kind. It's S3, it's EBS volumes whatever. So long as the storage comes through our system. Any growth, any simple easy way for applications to be written is hugely positive for us. >> What are the start ups out there? We've seen a lot of start ups really missed the mark. They misfired on the Cloud and you seen some stars that have played it well. They've got in the tornadoes as we say. In fact, Geoffrey Moore, I think is rewriting his book Inside the Tornado, which is a management paradigm. But there really seems to be a new business model. You guys are like ever green at WANdisco because you're unique (indistinct talking) property. How are you guys working with that business model and what are some of the things you're seeing with start ups and companies who are trying to play the cloud but are misfiring? >> Right so WANdisco as you know stands for Wide Area Network Distributed Computing, and the Cloud is like a huge bonus to it. It's all about the Wide Area Network. We are now consolidating a bunch of work in the cloud, but guess what? It's gonna go back to going to go into the edge in some way 'cause the edges are getting smarter. You need replication between those. We see a lot of that coming up in the next two, three, five years. IoT workloads and use cases all involve somewhat of edge smart computing. We replicate between those really well. >> Lisa, we always talk about the trend is your friend. In your case, Cloud is your friend. >> Indeed, it is. The Cloud is all about wide area network computing and we are the ones who can really replicate-- >> How does a customer know what to do when it comes down to getting involved with WANdisco? It's not obvious. Spell it out, why do they need you guys? When do you get involved? What specific things should be red flags to a potential customer or a customer who says I'm gonna go in on the Cloud. Unpack that. >> Let me give you a simple example. We look at Amazon S3, it's a Cloud service storage. But do you know that it's actually on a per region basis. When you create a bucket to put objects into the bucket, it's located in one region. If you want it replicated elsewhere, they have cross-region replication which is an eventually consistent replication system that doesn't give you the consistent results that you want. If you have such a situation employing our technology immediately gives you consistent replication. Be it Cloud regions, Cloud to Cloud or on-premise to Cloud. The end result is the minute you step into replication across the land, every solution out there doesn't do it consistently and that's our core-- >> And that's your unique IP. >> Indeed, it is. >> Okay so I'm seeing Amazon racing their roll out regions. They got one coming in China, one in the Middle East. That's a big part of the strategy. Does that help you or what does that do? >> Absolutely it helps us a great deal, partly because customers now do not look at their applications as a single region applications. That doesn't fly anymore. The the notion that my banking app cannot work because a data center went down is just not acceptable in the modern world anymore. The fact that we depend so much on the services means they need to be up all the time. More regions, more data replication. That's why we step in. >> So that sounds like a lot of symbiosis here. You talk about S3 and replication challenges. So tell us how WANdisco is actually helping AWS. That's one example but help you us understand the symbiosis with your relationship with AWS. >> The best example I can give you is a large travel service company in the internet. They had to Adobe infrastructure that was growing out of control. They wanted to manage costs by moving some workloads to Amazon but didn't really know where to start, because you can't do such a thing as take a copy of the data, ship it off on a Snowball into the Cloud and tell the users of that data, stop writing to it now. It's gonna be available in the Cloud, a week, 10 days from now. Then you can start writing again. That's just not acceptable. This is live data problem. The problem here is that you need to be able to ship out your data on Snowballs, continue to write the on-premise storage. When it shows up in the Cloud, start writing that. Both are consistently replicated, you have a proper hybrid Cloud environment. So this was a great bonus to them. As for AWS, they watched this and they look at it as a easy way to move vast majority of data from on-premise big Data analytics systems. >> Have they been a fuel to your fire, in a sense that they've been on this incredible acceleration of their innovation and as Andy Joci said many times to you John. It's speed and customer focus. So how has their accelerated pace of innovation helped fuel WANdisco's so that like you were saying the unique value. How have they really ignited that? >> So they started off with just plain Snowball two years ago. Last year they announced Snowball Edge which is a pretty improved device. Now they have in the works, capability to do some compute on those boxes. That's very interesting to us. Now our services can decide on the Snowball, It arrives at a customer site. He plugs it in, turns it on instant replication capabilities Those are fueled both by Amazon's drive and extreme speed and our own capabilities. So Amazon is a wonderful partner for us partly because their charge to us innovation is quite amazing. >> Snowball, snow mobile, it's gonna be a white Christmas for you guys. Business is good. >> Business is great. >> Okay, final question. What's the conversations you're having here this year, share with us some of the quick conversations you're having in the hallways, meetings, Amazon got execs, partners. >> So most of the conversation are about moving workloads from on-premise into the Cloud. I personally am very interested in IoT use cases because I see the volume of data and the ability for us to do some interesting replications at being critical. That's where our focus is right now. >> Jugane Sundar, CTO of WANdisco. Big announcement, partnership with Amazon Web Services and Snowball replication active active. Great solution for replication. You got regions across regions. Check out WANdisco. Thanks for coming by, great to see you again. Congratulations on all your success. This is theCube, live coverage day one. It's coming down to an end. The halls open, we got two more days of packed two Cubes. Stay tuned for more, we got some great guest coming up, stay with us. (uptempo techno music)

>> Hi, I'm Peter Burris, and welcome once again to Action Item. (funky electronic music) Every week, Wikibon gathers together the research team to discuss seminal issues that are facing the IT industry. And this week is no different. In the next couple of weeks, somewhere near 100,000 people are gonna be heading to Las Vegas for the Amazon, or AWS re:Invent show from all over the world. And this week, what we wanna do is we wanna provide a preview of what we think folks are gonna be talking about. And I'm joined here in our lovely Palo Alto studio, theCUBE studio, by Rob Hof, who is the editor-in-chief of SiliconANGLE. David Floyer, who's in analyst at Wikibon. George Gilbert, who's an analyst Wikibon. And John Furrier, who's a CUBE host and co-CEO. On the phone we have Neil Raden, an analyst at Wikibon, and also Dave Vellante, who's co-CEO with John Furrier, an analyst at Wikibon as well. So guys, let's jump right into it. David Floyer, I wanna hit you first. AWS has done a masterful job of making the whole concept of infrastructure as a service real. Nobody should downplay how hard that was and how amazing their success has been. But they're moving beyond infrastructure as a service. What do we expect for how far up Amazon is likely to go up the stack this year at re:Invent? >> Well, I can say what I'm hoping for. I agree with your premise that they have to go beyond IAS. The overall market for cloud is much bigger than just IAS, with SaaS and other clouds as well, both on-premise and off-premise. So I would start with what enterprise CIOs are wanting, and they are wanting to see a multi-cloud strategy, both on-premise and multiple clouds. SaaS clouds, other clouds. So I'm looking for AWS to provide additional services to make that easier. in particular, services, I thought of private clouds for enterprises. I'm looking for distributed capabilities, particularly in the storage area so they can link different clouds together. I want to see edge data management capabilities. I'd love to see that because the edge itself, especially the low-latency stuff, the real-time stuff, that needs specialist services, and I'd like to see them integrate that much better than just Snowball. I want to see more details about AI I'd love to see what they're doing in that. There's tremendous potential for AI in operational and to improve security, to improve availability, recovery. That is an area where I think they could be a leader of the IT industry. >> So let me stop you there, and George I wanna turn to you. So AWS in AI how do we anticipate that's gonna play out at re:Invent this year? >> I can see three things in decreasing order of likelihood. The first one is, they have to do a better job of tooling, both for, sort of, developers who want to dabble in, well get their arms around AI, but who aren't real data scientists. And then also hardcore tools for data scientists that have been well served by, recently, Microsoft and IBM, among others. So this is this Iron Man Initiative that we've heard about. For the hardcore tools, something from Domino Data Labs that looks like they're gonna partner with them. It's like a data-science workbench, so for the collaborative data preparation, modeling, deployment. That whole life cycle. And then for the developer-ready tooling, I expect to see they'll be working with a company called DataRobot, which has a really nifty tool where you put in a whole bunch of training data, and it trains, could be a couple dozen models that it thinks that might fit, and it'll show you the best fits. It'll show you the features in the models that are most impactful. In other words, it provides a lot of transparency. >> So it's kind of like models for models. >> Yes, and it provides transparency. Now that's the highest likelihood. And we have names on who we think the likely suspects are. The next step down, I would put applying machine learning to application performance management and IT operations. >> So that's the whole AI for ITOM that David Floyer just mentioned. >> Yeah. >> Now, presumably, this is gonna have to extend beyond just AI for Amazon or AWS-related ITOM. Our expectation's that we're gonna see a greater distribution of, or Amazon take more of a leadership in establishing a framework that cuts across multi-cloud. Have I got that right, David Floyer? >> Absolutely. A massive opportunity for them to provide the basics on their own platform. That's obviously the starting point. They'll have the best instrumentation for all of the components they have there. But they will need to integrate that in with their own databases, with other people's databases. The more that they can link all the units together and get real instrumentation from an application point of view of the whole of the infrastructure, the more value AI can contribute. >> John Foyer, the whole concept of the last few years of AWS is that all roads eventually end up at AWS. However, there's been a real challenge associated with getting this migration momentum to really start to mature. Now we saw some interesting moves that they made with VMware over the last couple of years, and it's been quite successful. And some would argue it might even have given another round of life to VMware. Are there some things we expect to see AWS do this time that are gonna reenergize the ecosystem to start bringing more customers higher up the stack to AWS? >> Yeah, but I think I look at it, quickly, as VMware was a groundbreaking even for both companies, VMware and AWS. We talked about that at that research event we had with them. The issue that is happening is that AWS has had a run in the marketplace. They've been the leader in cloud. Every year, it's been a slew of announcements. This year's no different. They're gonna have more and more announcements. In fact, they had to release some announcements early, before the show, because they have, again, more and more announcements. So they have the under-the-hood stuff going on that David Floyer and George were pointing out. So the classic build strategy is to continue to be competitive by having more services layered on top of each other, upgrading those services. That's a competitive strategy frame that's under the hood. On the business side, you're seeing more competition this year than ever before. Amazon now is highly contested, certainly in the marketplace with competitors. Okay, you're seeing FUD, the uncertainty and doubt from other people, how they're bundling. But it's clear. The cloud visibility is clear to customers. The numbers are coming in, multiple years of financial performance. But now the ecosystem plays, really, the interesting one. I think the VMware move is gonna be a tell sign for other companies that haven't won that top-three position. >> Example? >> I will say SAP. >> Oh really? You think SAP is gonna have a major play this year where we might see some more stuff about AWS and SAP? >> I'm hearing rumblings that SAP is gonna be expanding their relationship. I don't have the facts yet on the ground, but from what I'm sensing, this is consistent with what they've been doing. We've seen them at Google cloud platform. We talked to them specifically about how they're dealing with cloud. And their strategy is clear. They wanna be on Azure, Google, and Amazon. They wanna provide that database functionality and their client base in from HANA, and roll that in. So it's clear that SAP wants to be multi-cloud. >> Well we've seen Oracle over the past couple of years, or our research has suggested, I would say, that there's been kind of two broad strategies. The application-oriented strategy that goes down to IAAS aggressively. That'd be Oracle and Microsoft. And then the IAAS strategy that's trying to move up through an ecosystem play, which is more AWS. David Floyer and I have been writing a lot of that research. So it sounds like AWS is really gonna start doubling down in an ecosystem and making strategic bets on software providers who can bring those large enterprise install bases with them. >> Yeah, and the thing that you pointed out is migration. That's a huge issue. Now you can get technical, and say, what does that mean? But Andy Jassy has been clear, and the whole Amazon Web Services Team has been clear from day one. They're customer centric. They listen to the customers. So if they're doing more migration this year, and we'll see, I think they will be, I think that's a good tell sign and good prediction. That means the customers want to use Amazon more. And VMware was the same way. Their customers were saying, hey, we're ops guys, we want to have a cloud strategy. And it was such a great move for VMware. I think that's gonna lift the fog, if you will, pun intended, between what cloud computing is and other alternatives. And I think companies are gonna be clear that I can party with Amazon Web Services and still run my business in a way that's gonna help customers. I think that's the number one thing that I'm looking for is, what is the customers looking for in multi-cloud? Or if it's server-less or other things. >> Well, or yeah I agree. Lemme run this by you guys. It sounds as though multi-cloud increasingly is going to be associated with an application set. So, for example, it's very difficult to migrate a database manager from one place to another, as a snowflake. The cost to the customer is extremely high. The cost to the migration team is extremely high, lotta risk. But if you can get an application provider to step up and start migrating elements of the database interface, then you dramatically reduce the overall cost of what that migration might look like. Have I got that right, David Floyer? >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's what AWS, what I'm expecting them to focus on is more integration with more SaaS vendors, making it a better place-- >> Paul: Or just software vendors. >> Or software vendors. Well, SaaS vendors in particular, but software vendors in particular-- >> Well SAP's not a SaaS player, right? Well, they are a little bit, but most of their installations are still SAP on Oracle and moving them over, then my ass is gonna require a significant amount of SAP help. >> And one of the things I would love to see them have is a proper tier-one database as a service. That's something that's hugely missing at the moment, and using HANA, for example, on SAP, it's a tier-one database in a particular area, but that would be a good move and help a lot of enterprises to move stuff into AWS. >> Is that gonna be sufficient, though, given how dominant Oracle is in that-- >> No, they need something general purpose which can compete with Oracle or come to some agreement with Oracle. Who knows what's gonna happen in the future? >> Yeah, I don't know. >> Yeah we're all kinda ignoring here. It will be interesting to see. But at the end of the day, look, Oracle has an incentive also to render more of what it has, as a service at some level. And it's gonna be very difficult to say, we're gonna render this as a service to a customer, but Amazon can't play. Or AWS can't play. That's gonna be a real challenge for them. >> The Oracle thing is interesting and I bring this up because Oracle has been struggling as a company with cloud native messaging. In other words, they're putting out, they have a lot of open source, we know what they have for tooling. But they own IT. I mean if you dug up Oracle, they got the database as David pointed out, tier one. But they know the IT guys, they've been doing business in IT for years as a legacy vendor. Now they're transforming, and they are trying hard to be the cloud native path, and they're not making it. They're not getting the credit, and I don't know if that's a cultural issue with Oracle. But Amazon has that positioning from a developer cloud DNA. Now winning real enterprise deals. So the question that I'm looking for is, can Amazon continue to knock down these enterprise deals in lieu of these incumbent or legacy players in IT. So if IT continues to transform more towards cloud native, docker containers, or containers in Kubernetes, these kinds of micro services, I would give the advantage to Amazon over Oracle even though that Oracle has the database because ultimately the developers are driving the behavior. >> Oh again I don't think any of us would disagree with that. >> Yeah so the trouble though is the cost of migrating the applications and the data. That is huge. The systems of record are there for a reason. So there are two fundamental strategies for Oracle. If they can get their developers to add the AI, add the systems of intelligence. Make them systems of intelligence, then they can win in that strategy. Or the alternative is that they move it to AWS and do that movement in AWS. That's a much more risky strategy. >> Right but I think our kind of concluding point here is that ultimately if AWS can get big application players to participate and assist and invest in and move customers along with some of these big application migrations, it's good for AWS. And to your point John, it's probably good for the customers too. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah I don't think it's mutually exclusive as David makes a point about migrating for Oracle. I don't see a lot of migration coming off of Oracle. I look at overall database growth is the issue. Right so Oracle will have that position, but it's kind of like when we argued about the internet growth back in 1997. Just internet users growing was so great that rising tide flows. So I believe that the database growth is going to happen so fast that Amazon is not necessarily targeting Oracle's market share, they're going after the overall database market, which might be a smaller tier two kind of configuration or new architectures that are developing. So I think it's interesting dynamic and Oracle certainly could play there and lock in the database, but-- >> Here's what I would say, I would say that they're going after the new workload world, and a lot of that new workload is gonna involve database as it always has. Not like there's anything that the notion that we have solved or that database is 90% penetrated for the applications that are gonna be dominant matter in 2025 is ridiculous. There's a lot of new database that's gonna be sold. I think you're absolutely right. Rob Hof what's the general scuttlebutt that you're hearing. You know you as editor of SiliconANGLE, editor-in-chief of SiliconANGLE. What is the journalist world buzzing about for re:Invent this year? >> Well I guess you know my questions is because of the challenges that we're facing like we just talked about with migrating, the difficulty in migrating some of these applications. We also see very fast growing rivals like Google. Still small, but growing fast. And then there's China. That's a big one where is there a natural limit there that they're gonna have? So you put these things together, and I guess we see Amazon Web Services still growing at 42% a year or whatever it's great. But is it gonna start to go down because of all these challenges? >> 'Cause some of the constraints may start to assert themselves. >> Rob: Exactly, exactly. >> So-- >> Rob: That's what I'm looking at. >> Kind of the journalism world is kinda saying, are there some speed bumps up ahead for AWS? >> Exactly, and we saw one just a couple, well just this week with China for example. They sold off $300 million worth of data centers, equipment and such to their partner in China Beijing Sinnet. And they say this is a way to comply with Chinese law. Now we're going to start expanding, but expanding while you're selling off $300 million worth of equipment, you know, it begs a question. So I'm curious how they're going to get past that. >> That does raise an interesting question, and I think I might go back to some of the AI on ITOM, AI on IT operations management. Is that do you need control of the physical assets in China to nonetheless sell great service. >> Rob: And that's a big question. >> For accessing assets in China. >> Rob: Right. >> And my guess is that if they're successful with AI for ITOM and some of these other initiatives we're talking about. It in fact may be very possible for them to offer a great service in China, but not actually own the physical assets. And that's, it's an interesting question for some of the Chinese law issues. Dave Vellante, anything you want to jump in on, and add to the conversation? For example, if we look at some of the ecosystem and some of the new technologies, and some of the new investments being made around new technologies. What are some of your thoughts about some of the new stuff that we might hear about at AWS this year? >> Dave: Well so, a couple things. Just a comment on some of the things you guys were saying about Oracle and migration. To me it comes down to three things, growth, which is clearly there, you've talked about 40% plus growth. Momentum, you know the flywheel effect that Amazon has been talking about for years. And something that really hasn't been discussed as much which is economics, and this is something that we've talked about a lot and Amazon is bringing a software like marginal economics model to infrastructure services. And as it potentially slows down its growth, it needs to find new areas, and it will expand its tan by gobbling up parts of the ecosystem. So, you know there's so much white space, but partners got to be careful about where they're adding value because ultimately Amazon is gonna target those much in the same way, in my view anyway that Microsoft and Intel have in the past. And so I think you've got to tread very carefully there, and watch where Amazon is going. And they're going into the big areas of AI, trying to do more stuff with the Edge. And anywhere there's automation they are going to grab that piece of value in the value chain. >> So one of the things that we've been, we've talked about two main things. We've talked about a lot of investments, lot of expectations about AI and how AI is gonna show up in a variety of different ways at re:Invent. And we've talked about how they're likely to make some of these migration initiatives even that much more tangible than they have been. So by putting some real operational clarity as to how they intend to bring enterprises into AWS. We haven't talked about IoT. Dave just mentioned it. What's happening with the Edge, how is the Edge going to work? Now historically what we've seen is we've seen a lot of promises that the Edge was all going to end up in the cloud from a data standpoint, and that's where everything was gonna be processed. We started seeing the first indications that that's not necessarily how AWS is gonna move last year with Snowball and server-less computing, and some of those initiatives. We have anticipated a real honest to goodness true private cloud, AWS stack with a partnership. Hasn't happened yet. David Floyer what are we looking for this year? Are we gonna see that this year or are we gonna see more kind of circumnavigating the issue and doing the best that they can? >> Yeah, well my prediction last year was that they would come out with some sort of data service that you could install on your on-premise machine as a starting point for this communication across a multi cloud environment. I'm still expecting that, whether it happens this year or early next year. I think they have to. The pressure from enterprises, and they are a customer driven organization. The pressure from enterprises is going to mandate that they have some sort of solution on-premise. It's a requirement in many countries, especially in Europe. They're gonna have to do that I think without doubt. So they can do it in multiple ways, they can do it as they've done with the US government by putting in particular data centers, whole data centers within the US government. Or they can do it with small services, or they can have a, take the Microsoft approach of having an AWS service on site as well. I think with pressure from Microsoft, the pressure from Europe in particular is going to make this an essential requirement of their whole strategy. >> I remember a number of years going back a couple decades when Dell made big moves because to win the business of a very large manufacturer that had 50,000 work stations. Mainly engineers were turning over every year. To get that business Dell literally put a distribution point right next to that manufacturer. And we expect to see something similar here I would presume when we start talking about this. >> Yeah I mean I would make a comment on the IoT. First of all I agree with what David said, and I like his prediction, but I'm kind of taking a contrarian view on this, and I'm watching a few things at Amazon. Amazon always takes an approach of getting into new markets either with a big idea, and small teams to figure it out or building blocks, and they listen to the customer. So IoT is interesting because IoT's hard, it's important, it's really a fundamental important infrastructure, architecture that's not going away. I mean it has to be nailed down, it's obvious. Just like blockchain kinda is obvious when you talk about decentralization. So it'll be interesting to see what Amazon does on those two fronts. But what's interesting to note is Amazon always becomes their first customer. In their retail business, AWS was powering retail. With Whole Foods, and the stuff they're doing on the physical side, it'll be very interesting to see what their IoT strategy is from a technology standpoint with what they're doing internally. We get food delivered to our house from Amazon Fresh, and they got Whole Foods and all the retail. So it'll be interesting to see that. >> They're buying a lot of real estate. And I thought about this as well John. They're buying a lot of real estate, and how much processing can they put in there. And the only limit is that I don't think Whole Foods would qualify as particularly secure locations (laughing) when we start talking about this. But I think you're absolutely right. >> That only brings the question, how will they roll out IoT. Because he's like okay roll out an appliance that's more of an infrastructure thing. Is that their first move. So the question that I'm looking for is just kind of read the tea leaves and saying, what is really their doing. So they have the tech, and it's gonna be interesting to see, I mean it's more of a high level kind of business conversation, but IoT is a really big challenging area. I mean we're hearing that all over the place from CIOs like what's the architecture, what's the playbook? And it's different per company. So it's challenging. >> Although one of the reasons why it looks different per company is because it is so uncertain as to how it's gonna play out. There's not a lot of knowledge to fuse. My guess is that in 10 years we're gonna look back and see that there was a lot more commonality and patterns of work that were in IoT that many people expected. So I'll tell you one of the things that I saw last year that particularly impressed me at AWS re:Invent. Was the scale at which the network was being built out. And it raised for me an interesting question. If in fact one of the chief challenges of IoT. There are multiple challenges that every company faces with IoT. One is latency, one is intellectual property control, one is legal ramification like GDPR. Which is one of the reasons why the whole Europe play is gonna be so interesting 'cause GDPR is gonna have a major impact on a global basis, it's not just Europe. Bandwidth however is an area that is not necessarily given, it's partly a function of cost. So what happens if AWS blankets the world with network, and customers to get access to at least some degree of Edge no longer have to worry about a telco. What happens to the telco business at least from a data communication standpoint? Anybody wanna jump in on that one? >> Well yeah I mean I've actually talked to a couple folks like Ericson, and I think AT&T. And they're actually talking about taking their central offices and even the base stations, and sort of outfitting them as mini data centers. >> As pops. >> Yeah. But I think we've been hearing now for about 12 months that, oh maybe Edge is going to take over before we actually even finish getting to the cloud. And I think that's about as sort of ill-considered as the notion that PCs were gonna put mainframes out of business. And the reason I use that as an analogy, at one point IBM was going to put all their mainframe based databases and communication protocol on the PC. That was called OS2 extended edition. And it failed spectacularly because-- >> Peter: For a lot of reasons. >> But the idea is you have a separation of concerns. Presentation on one side in that case, and data management communications on the other. Here in this, in what we're doing here, we're definitely gonna have the low latency inferencing on the Edge and then the question is what data goes back up into the cloud for training and retraining and even simulation. And we've already got, having talked to Microsoft's Azure CTO this week, you know they see it the same way. They see the compute intensive modeling work, and even simulation work done in the cloud, and the sort of automated decisioning on the Edge. >> Alright so I'm gonna make one point and then I want to hit the Action Item around here. The one point I wanna make is I have a feeling that over, and I don't know if it's gonna happen at re:Invent this year but I have a feeling that over the course of the next six to nine months, there's going to be a major initiative on the part of Amazon to start bringing down the cost of data communications, and use their power to start hitting the telcos on a global basis. And what's going to be very very interesting is whether Amazon starts selling services to its network independent of its other cloud services. Because that could have global implications for who wins and who loses. >> Well that's a good point, I just wanna add color on that. Just anecdotally from my perspective you asked a question and I went, haven't talked to anyone. But knowing the telco business, I think they're gonna have that VMware moment. Because they've been struggling with over the top for so long. The rapid pace of innovation going on, that I don't think Amazon is gonna go after the telcos, I think it's just an evolutionary steamroller effect. >> It's an inevitability. >> It's an inevitability that the steamroller's coming. >> So users, don't sign longterm data communications deals right now. >> Why wouldn't you do a deal with Amazon if you're a telco, you get relevance, you have stability, lock in your cash flows, cut your deal, and stay alive. >> You know it's an interesting thought. Alright so let's hit the Action Item around here. So really quickly, as a preface for this, the way we wanna do this is guys, is that John Furrier is gonna have a couple hour one on one with Andy Jassy sometime in the next few days. And so if you were to, well tell us a little about that first John. >> Well every re:Invent we've been doing re:Invent for multiple years, I think it's our sixth year, we do all the events, and we cover it as the media partner as you know. And I'm gonna have a one on one sit down every year prior to re:Invent to get his view, exclusive interview, for two hours. Talk about the future. We broke the first Amazon story years ago on the building blocks, and how they overcame, and now they're winning. So it's a time for me to sit down and get his insight and continue to tell the story, and document the growth of this amazing success story. And so I'm gonna ask him specific questions and I wanted, love to know what he's thinking. >> Alright guys so I want each of you to pretend that you are, so representing your community, what would your community, what's the one question your community would like answered by Andy Jassy. George let's start with you. >> So my question would be, are you gonna take IT operations management, machine learn enable it, and then as part of offering a hybrid cloud solution, do you extend that capability on-prem, and maybe to even other vendor clouds. >> Peter: That's a good one, David Floyer. >> I've got two if I may. >> The more the merrier. >> I'll say them very quickly. The first one, John, is you've, the you being AWS, developed a great international network, with fantastic performance. How is AWS going to avoid conflicts with the EU, China, Japan, and particularly about their resistance about using any US based nodes. And from in-country telecommunication vendors. So that's my first, and the second is, again on AI, what's going to be the focus of AWS in applying the value of AI. Where are you gonna focus first and to give value to your customers? >> Rob Hof do you wanna ask a question? >> Yeah I'd like to, one thing I didn't raise in terms of the challenges is, Amazon overall is expanding so fast into all kinds of areas. Whole Foods we saw this. I'd ask Jassy, how do you contend with reality that a lot of these companies that you're now bumping up against as an overall company. Now don't necessarily want to depend on AWS for their critical infrastructure because they're competitors. How do you deal with that? >> Great question, David Vellante. >> David: Yeah my question is would be, as an ecosystem partner, what advice would you give? 'Cause I'm really nervous that as you grow and you use the mantra of, well we do what customers want, that you are gonna eat into my innovation. So what advice would you give to your ecosystem partners about places that they can play, and a framework that they should think about where they should invest and add value without the fear of you consuming their value proposition. >> So it's kind of the ecosystem analog to the customer question that Rob asked. So the one that I would have for you John is, the promise is all about scale, and they've talked a lot about how software at scale has to turn into hardware. What will Amazon be in five years? Are they gonna be a hardware player on a global basis? Following his China question, are they gonna be a software management player on a global basis and are not gonna worry as much about who owns the underlying hardware? Because that opens up a lot of questions about maybe there is going to be a true private cloud option an AWS will just try to run on everything, and really be the multi cloud administrator across the board. The Cisco as opposed to the IBM in the internet transformation. Alright so let me summarize very quickly. Thank you very much all of you guys once again for joining us in our Action Item. So this week we talked about AWS re:Invent. We've done this for a couple of years now. theCUBE has gone up and done 30, 35, 40 interviews. We're really expanding our presence at AWS re:Invent this year. So our expectation is that Amazon has been a major player in the industry for quite some time. They have spearheaded the whole concept of infrastructure as a service in a way that, in many respects nobody ever expected. And they've done it so well and so successfully that they are having an enormous impact way beyond just infrastructure in the market place today. Our expectation is that this year at AWS re:Invent, we're gonna hear a lot about three things. Here's what we're looking for. First, is AWS as a provider of advanced artificial intelligence technologies that then get rendered in services for application developers, but also for infrastructure managers. AI for ITOM being for example a very practical way of envisioning how AI gets instantiated within the enterprise. The second one is AWS has had a significant migration as a service initiative underway for quite some time. But as we've argued in Wikibon research, that's very nice, but the reality is nobody wants to bond the database manager. They don't want to promise that the database manager's gonna come over. It's interesting to conceive of AWS starting to work with application players as a way of facilitating the process of bringing database interfaces over to AWS more successfully as an onboarding roadmap for enterprises that want to move some of their enterprise applications into the AWS domain. And we mentioned one in particular, SAP, that has an interesting potential here. The final one is we don't expect to see the kind of comprehensive Edge answers at this year's re:Invent. Instead our expectation is that we're gonna continue to see AWS provide services and capabilities through server-less, through other partnerships that allow AWS to be, or the cloud to be able to extend out to the Edge without necessarily putting out that comprehensive software stack as an appliance being moved through some technology suppliers. But certainly green grass, certainly server-less, lambda, and other technologies are gonna continue to be important. If we finalize overall what we think, one of the biggest plays is, we are especially intrigued by Amazon's continuing build out of what appears to be one of the world's fastest, most comprehensive networks, and their commitment to continue to do that. We think this is gonna have implications far beyond just how AWS addresses the Edge to overall how the industry ends up getting organized. So with that, once again thank you very much for enjoying Action Item, and participating, and we'll talk next week as we review some of the things that we heard at AWS. And we look forward to those further conversations with you. So from Peter Burris, the Wikibon team, SiliconANGLE, thank you very much and this has been Action Item. (funky electronic music)

(energetic music playing) >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman here at the Silicon Ango Media Office in Palo Alto, happy to welcome back to the program Kiran Bhageshpur, who is the CEO of Igneous Systems. Kiron, great to see you. >> Great to see you again, Stu. >> Alright, so we've been really busy at theCUBE looking at so many big trends, and of course, really looking at kind of massively scalable distributed type of architectures are something we've been looking at, and something I know Igneous has been doing since the earliest days. But, the exact focus of what you've been working on, I think's changed a little bit since you first came out of Stealth and we've been looking at what your doing. So, why don't you bring our audience up to speed. >> Love to do that. It's not changed so much as expanded if you will. We launched, I believe I was here last, in October of last year, just as we were getting ready to launch. And, at that time, we launched the company and the platform, which the beginning services was object of the service, televert as a service and the enterprise data center. And, that was just the beginning. We've gone on since then, expanded the number of native services available, but really what we have done is built applications on top of that. So, the first application that we have developed and deployed at customers is backup and archive for massive file systems. So, we are talking about people who have terabytes of data, billions of files, spread across hundreds of systems. So, that's kind of been a pretty exciting thing, and it's a very unique set of challenges both for customers and for us to go forward. >> So, it's interesting, just step back for a second, object storage is something. If you talk to anybody that's a storage technologist they're like absolutely the way we need to architect things. But, usually we tend to get away from talking about object storage itself, and truly what do I do with it, what are those applications, what are those use cases. So, there's still object underneath it if I understand it right, it's just you're getting closer, moving up the stack a little bit, and getting closer to what your customers were asking for. >> Absolutely. The underlying infrastructure is still a collection of cloud services, not just object and S3, but a bunch of other services, which are very API compatible with the cloud, but, really, that doesn't matter because those are just tools. What matters is what are you doing with that, and what we are doing to begin with is really backup, archive, and discovery of massive files inside the enterprise. >> Alright, so there're some backup we've been doing for a long time, but backup has been broken. We were at the VM world show, there was a lot of buzz around some of the new companies, sometimes they called them secondary storage; you know, Rubric, Cohesity, Veem who everybody knows from the virtualization world, why don't you tell us are you part of kind of a similar wave? How do you kind of compare and contrast that to some of those other players? >> Great question. It's similar, but quite different. So, if you look at Rubric or Veem, for example, Veem really came about by doing tight integration with Veemware and doing a Veemware specific backup, which was the right technology, the right time for VMS and virtualization. Similarly, Rubric, and for that matter Cohesity, are really re-imagining data protection primarily for structured workflows, databases, physical servers, VMS, tightly integrating it and re-imagining how that feels from an experience point of view. We are really looking explicitly at unstructured data. This is data which lives on network devices from a net-app or a deliMC or a whole bunch of others and the content is really digital assets. It's data that could be media data, it could be microscopy imaging, it could be design data for a variety of work flows and this stuff continues to grow. It is monotonically increasing in every place, whether it is on premises or on the cloud or the edge, and protecting and managing this data is really a challenge and getting worse for customers. >> Yeah, the word that keeps coming up a lot is data. And, one of the things I know we've been excited about storage use to be about storing it. Now when we're talking about data, how do I leverage it? How do I get get value out of it? How do I discover different pieces of it? How have you been seeing these changes, your background you worked on some of the scale-out NASA solutions in the past, so how do we see kind of, unlocking the value of data? >> Yeah, you are absolutely right. If you go back 10 years ago, the real problem with how do I store all of this data, today there are plenty of solutions for ways you store data, especially on the primary teir, right? The challenge is really getting data from where it lives to where it's needed, whether it is backing it up or archiving it into the cloud. Being able to automatically discover things about it. Simple things like how is it growing, who is using it, how big is it, how much of it is what size of data? What about things you can infer about it by looking at the type of data it is. This is what now becomes valuable because if you look at the data sets and sizes, even modest size businesses today will have para bytes of data, billions of files, and that's challenging for any system system to go, sort of understand, unless you build it as a part of the platform. >> Okay, how about organizationally? Yah know, one of the other shifts we've seen is, you know, it used to be the storage administrator. How do I, how do I grow, how do I manage it, how do I have all of my protections and things set? A lot of the types of applications you are using are closer to the business, this is what runs the business. The business user needs to be involved. How are you setting your solution up to, you know, do what the business user needs? >> Great, yeah that's a good question. Today if you look at this data sets, this is not stuff that is an IT application. It's an end-user business focused application where they research in a life sciences world, or its designed in an electronic design world, right? And in all of these cases, essentially the end-user cares, because this data is critical to their daily working, working experience. Now, IT is clearly involved; it's a clear sort of partner of the business unit and actually operationalizing this data and making it easier to go consume. But now, it's really a joint thing, the final decision maker is always the end-user. In fact, we find ourselves in multiple places where we talk to IT, and talk to the IT teams. They get excited, but very quickly they bring in the end-users to make certain, whether the end-users are researchers or software developers, or even (mumbles) to make it so that they're comfortable with what we're talking about and they get really excited and that's sort of the starting point for our deployments. >> Yeah, we saw a similar dynamic between the business and the IT when we talked about cloud. And when I talked cloud I specifically mean public cloud and your customers, I have to imagine, they're all using public cloud in one way or another. Maybe, explain that dynamic how public cloud fits in with what your doing and how some of those IT and business people. >> Right. Look, cloud is simply the most disruptive trend in the last 10 years. In fact, you have to go back to Veemware, and Veemware's virtualization to see another trend of that magnitude. And all of our customers are embracing the cloud. They are wanting to go adopt cloud patterns, if you will. But the 180 over there massively challenged is around large data sets. Think about it, if you have terabytes of data that continues to grow, it's billion of files, it's spread across multiple geographies and dozens to hundreds of systems, it's a challenge to go leverage this in the cloud. So they're looking to ask, to be able to go chart the journey from all on premise, to a true hybrid world where they can use those cloud patterns much more effectively. >> Yah know I'm curious, and maybe it doesn't fit exactly for what Igneous is doing today. But, we've been talking about the data center versus the public cloud and a lot of those environments. I talked to some companies, that, you know, when I'm building those data legs, I'm doing that in the public cloud too. Then the discussion that's come up a lot in the past year, is Edge; so, IOT applications, we know we're going to have orders of magnitude more devices, and there's going to be a lot of data but the requirement for the data center versus the public cloud versus the Edge are very different. How does Igneous look at that? How are you having those discussions? Customers, how do they get their arms around all the various places of data?-- >> Right. You're absolutely right. The requirements are different, as in the public cloud is this massive hyper-scale, always available. The enterprise is a smaller version of that. And the Edge has a very different physical characteristics. But, what we believe is important is the same patterns, the same API's are available everywhere. And if you look at what the big public cloud providers are doing, Amazon with, you know, Snowball, and Green Grass, they're trying to go move their API's out and we completely embrace that trend. And, that's one of the reasons we built our platform to be API compatible with the cloud, with a variety of the cloud services. Because that means the services we run can run in the enterprise data center or in the public cloud or on the Edge all on a platform which is appropriate for the three. >> Yeah, and, to drill down to specifically, you say API compatible, that's S3, that's fully compatible. And do we have an API creep every cloud seems to have not only one API but many API's especially our friends at Amazon, what are you seeing out there, and what is the breath of offering they have today? >> Yeah, so, its SS3 is a constant storage leg is the obvious one, but the ones we did not talk about the last time were things like index store. So this is the equal of Amazon's dynamoDB, or Azure's table store the ability to go store a massive amount of index. But it's not just that. It's also the ability to go around compute, close to the data, which boils down to Cubanaties and containers. So all these three are part of our on the line platform. We don't talk about that to customers except after they become customers; we really focus on the application which is back up, archive, and discovery of all of their file data. >> Yeah, Kiran, take me inside the customers you are talking to; a lot of times we're like, I hear this term secondary storage out there and I worked on converge and hyper-converge stuff, you know, those terms are something that customers hear about after awhile, but they don't solve the problem. What, can you help translate for us, what's going on in your customers and why is secondary storage important to them? What's different than traditional back up, and how do you fit in? >> Right, so if you look at all of these guys, the data, the fundamental truth is data sets are growing and they are growing monotonically. Every year it is more. We've talked to folks where in the two years that we've spent as we were growing up as a company, they've sort of essentially had a 40 percent growth in their on search data sets, right? So then, the question is a couple of things. One, they clearly realize that not all of that stuff needs to live, or should live, on high performance, relatively expensive primary tiers. Right? That's the first set of piece. But the question is, how do you find out, what is active what is not active and how do you move it to the appropriate place; so this is sort of trend line and this is the patterns that they are living with. What we do is go in, very simply start off by saying, lets go find all of your filers, you know some of them, some of them you may not even know about, and let's go automatically back-up all of the data, and give you intelligence about all that. What is sort of simple intelligence. The intelligence could be how infrequently are these data sets changing, how frequently are parts of this data being accessed or modified by your applications. So that's sort of first part of this. And when this drives to is, not only does this reduce the cost of backup, which is really an insurance policy, it makes possible a bunch of intelligence about the data itself which is the beginnings of, sort of appropriately staging data on the right infrastructure. >> Alright. Kiran, you've had a number of customers since the early days talk to us a little bit about the journey you've been going on with them. How many of them have been pulling you towards the direction you are now going? What's their response been? To I guess what you call it, kind of storage as a service? >> Yeah, you know people love the whole concept of our offering as a service; initially when we talked of customers they kind of a little skeptical of our ability to go do this but they very quickly fall in love with that. It's pretty amazing. What's not to like about infrastructure that is inside your data center but that you do not have to manage at all? And when I say do not manage, people don't even look at things like drives or CPUs or network. That's not the world they live in. They live in the world of what's logically important to them, which if my backup's running, is my data being archived, how quickly is my data growing, who is accessing this data? And so on, and it goes to the next level, which is they don't have to go to manage things like software updates, just like you don't know what version of Gmail you're running or you do not know what version of S3 is being used in the cloud. Our customers don't know what version it is. Is it API level compatible or is it guarantee the services are not interrupted; and they absolutely love that aspect once they get used to it. We tell our customers, "You don't call us, we call you if there is an issue." And we're living up to that and they are pretty jazzed about that. >> Yeah, I love that. Kind of the version control thing is something we said is something, is cloud experience is actually what we want. (Mumbles) when we wrote true private cloud is exactly that; you don't know or care what version of Azure you're running, you assume that they're going to test that out and do that. Can you give us any kind of concrete examples, customers, love if you can share any names, but a lot of your customers are quite big, but what are the concrete results? What are they seeing, any good stories you can share? >> Yeah! So I give you an example of one of our largest customers, can't mention the name, but it is a large tech company in California. There's a lot of large tech companies in California-- (giggles) >> There's a bunch, yeah. >> Well, lets go through the South in California. And, these folks had an enormous amount of data. We started off by telling them, "Hey give us your most "complex systems, the ones that you are not able "to go back up today." And we started with their file systems, which were literally had this thing called file density, which is an enormous number of files in a relatively small amount of storage. So you're talking about a billion plus files and terabytes of data, and this is things that they had never been able to back up and we go off and we were able to go back it up and completely system protect. So, that's an example of a used case where we can go to a customer and allow them to accomplish what they cannot do today just from a basic back-up point of view. And, take it to the next level. In fact they did this great demo for their internal teams where they showed how easy it is to search through this data and essentially accomplish in seconds what typically, in their current world, takes hours to do. >> Okay, yeah, that's great. Yeah, sounds like you have some really good interesting, large companies there. Is that, what's the typical profile you see? Is it really companies that have specific challenges because they've got the massive scale? How far down does this scale? >> So. Uh, that's a common question that comes along. And the way I like to answer that is we are applicable to people with lots of data. It turns out it could be much smaller companies with lots of data, so we've got customers who are in the hundreds of people only world-wide, maybe two or three locations, but they are really looking at a multi-terabyte sized data problem. Similar data density problem. In fact, another one that we are working with has got 300 million files and a terabyte of data. How do you back it up? How do you go discover information about that? That's what we solve, and for these smaller companies which still have the problem, they are actually starting to find out about us and come to us. Which is really gratifying. >> Okay, well you seem pretty excited about it, about the space, what's exciting you the most about where we are today with the technology. >> The really sure is, people talk about data and they immediately go to databases, they talk about virtualization and physical servers. But that's not where the data lives. The data hasn't lived there for over a decade. And more and more of the data lives outside in files and object and there is this sort of ability to go understand that better, manage that better, protect that better and last but not least, provide intelligence to users because this data is something they care about. People are not keeping this because somebody else told them to; it is their life blood. It is their sort of livlihood, if you will, from a company point of view, and helping customers be able to go take that to the next level will bring this sort of cloud patterns to these used cases. That's pretty exciting. >> Yeah, absolutely! Want to sort of give you the final word. I hear this and I think about, you know, the whole wave of big data, what we're starting to talk about, you know, continuously with AI and ML really it is about unlocking data, so huge opportunities going forward. Any of the other trends outside what we've discussed already that you want to give us for a final word? >> You know, the last thing that I say is it is about data. It is about complete automation all across the, across the sky, weather it is storing, managing, or deriving intelligence and the reason you want to go automate all that stuff using intelligence in the software systems itself is simply because it's too large. There's no other way to go do it. And last, but not the least, all of the stuff has to be offered as a service because the cloud has gotten people really hooked on this sort of, comparatively, easy world of not having to go managing infrastructure. And I think those are the three things we should, we hold by. >> Alright, Kiran Bhageshpur, I really appreciate the update on Igneus systems. Absolutely customers dealing with massive amounts of data, how do I unlock the value of that without having to be down in the guts which has really been the history of storage. I'm Stu Miniman, thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (energetic music playing)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partner. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host Keith Townsend. Happy to welcome to the program first-time guest Paul Hodge, who's the global marketing manager of Honeywell Process Solutions, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you Stu. >> Alright, so Paul, you have to tell us, so Honeywell's the company, I think many people are aware. The process solutions; maybe you can tell us a little about that part of the organization and what your role there is. >> Sure, sure. So yeah, Honeywell, multi-national conglomerate, hundred thirty thousand people, forty billion dollars. Honeywell Process Solutions is then a subdivision within Honeywell that serves the manufacturing industry. So we go through and provide goods and services that allow people to go through and automate their plants for those pharmaceuticals or refining, and those types of things. >> And your role here coming to the show, you're actually a partner of Honeywell. >> Yes we are. >> Sometimes we've got tons of practitioners here, so tell us a little bit, you know, manufacturing, I think I know a few places where that makes a lot of sense for VMware, but tell us a little bit about the history of the partnership and your role there. >> Sure, so we've been partners with VMware since 2010. So it's been a long, long time partnership. And we've been bringing virtualization into the manufacturing industry, because we're typically quite conservative as a company, in terms of adopting technology, so it really takes an automation leader like Honeywell to go through and drive a new technology into the industry. So we've been doing that since, yeah, 2010. And yeah, this week we've been going through and talking about our new HDI hyperconversion infrastructure sort of solution that we've been doing, sort of, with VMware, and along with Dell EMC, that goes through and takes that a step further into our industry. >> Wow, so that's pretty interesting, I've worked in pharmaceuticals, manufacturing organization, and automation of IT is pretty difficult because of regulatory issues, et cetera, safety. What are some of the challenges that Honeywell is addressing in automation and specifically around VMware products? >> Sure, sure. I think the number one thing for our industry is purely simplicity, the people in our industry, they're not IT geeks, they don't have all of this knowledge, they don't have a storage administrator out there, so we have to go through and do all of that for them and take all of the complexity sort of out of the product. So it needs to be simple, but it just needs to be reliable, as well. I mean we're dealing with your refineries and pharmaceutical plants and things like that so the things just cannot stop. So you need simplicity with the reliability and availability and have both of them in sort of a package that's ready to go. And the other complexity is that we need to be able to deliver this anywhere around the world, and that's the other reason why it needs to be simple because it's not just going to North America, it's going to Europe, it's going to the Middle East, it's going to all different places. >> All right, well you say simplicity, and any time we've been talking about hyperconversion infrastructure, simplicity's usually at the top of the list. >> Paul: Absolutely, it's one of the big benefits. >> It seems like a natural fit there. Maybe, what is the solution, what made up with it, you said Dell EMC is part of it, of course VMware is part of it, how's it different from, say, the VxRail that Dell's been offering, you know, vSAN to hit ten thousand customers. What differentiates this compared to everything else that's available? >> Sure, so we're taking the vSAN, which is absolutely as you were saying, ten thousand customers out there very mature, very reliable, and we're taking it and sort of marrying it with the Dell EMC FX2 solution there which is an extremely powerful platform and flexible platform for going through and writing sort of, vSAN on top of it. So we've taken those two best in breed products there and we've gone through and built a reference configuration that's customized and optimized for the manufacturing industry. >> Yeah it's interesting. Keith, I remember when the FX2 launched, everybody was like, wait is this an HCI solution? Will it be there, will this be a platform for it? I don't know, is there anybody else leveraging that for this type of solution yet? >> vSAN is a very very popular sort of platform for, >> Stu: On the FX2. >> Yes, sorry, FX2, thank you. >> Yeah, I know vSAN is, but the marrying of those two together, is that a standard offering that was out there, or is that something that you've optimized? >> Certainly, I think there might be a vSAN ready version of that as well, but the reason why it's quite popular is because I can go through and have four vSAN nodes in the one FX2. So I can have a vSAN in a box with the FX2 solution, which makes it quite a nice fit. But it's really, the hardware platform aside, the value that Honeywell's providing is just really, the integration of those products. Building a reference design that's optimized for our industry and testing out all of the stack and delivering that for a market. >> So talking about building up a stack specifically for manufacturing, can you talk about, who's the end customer? Who's actually buying the solution? You say you don't, may not have a storage administrator. Are you guys selling to IT, or manufacturing operations? >> Mainly to the manufacturing part of the business, which is why it needs to be so simple is because those IT resources that you would normally have on the IT side of the business, they're just not there. And so we go through and sell to our customers there, refiners, pharmaceutical plants and things like that. And typically Honeywell is the one that's then engineering the overall solution to solve the manufacturing problems, so we deliver it to our own engineers, and our own engineers then customize that to go through and solve a manufacturing problem. But in our industry there's typically quite a big separation between the IT part of the organization and the OT, if you will, part, which is why the simplicity is such a big part of what we do. >> Paul, can you expand on that at all? Something we, from the research side have been looking at, kind of the IT, OT, what you're hearing from customers. >> Sure. So I think the main reason, traditionally, why that separation has been there is just on the OT side, there's a very, very different need in terms of reliability and availability and criticality and what happens if certain things just go wrong. And traditionally, those skills have been in a separate part of the organization to the IT part of the organization. So in some companies, those two worlds are absolutely converging and IoT is certainly a big thing that is driving that convergence. But in other organizations, they are still remaining separate, it's just the cultural way that a company has gone through and run itself. So I think, whether they are merging, those worlds, or whether they're staying separate is really, changes on a corporation by corporation basis. >> Paul, let's talk a little bit more about that OT customer. One of the things that's been my experience, you walk into a manufacturing floor, you see a system there that's 15 years old easy. This is a tool and that tool is just there to do a function within the manufacturing process, but with all of the malware, and the encrypted, and shutting down an entire operation's perspective, how are you helping OT get to a point where they accept, I guess the flexibility that this needed in an operation to support, something like a FX2 on their data center floor, with running vSAN? >> Sure, well, first of all, I think it is that simplicity. I mean if it's too complicated, then it just will not be accepted for somebody like that. So that simplicity and the reliability as where I've already spoken about there, but I think Honeywell there is there as well, helping that OT side of the business to be able to go through and deploy a system of that level of complexity, because as you're saying there, it is very different in terms of the 15 year old thing that they might be upgrading from. But it delivers just so many benefits from them. I mean going from 100 servers, which is what, say, some plants typically might go through and have, and you're just going to maybe two FX2 base clusters of our systems there, it's just a massive reduction in terms of hardware, and with each piece of hardware we remove, that's space and power and cooling and maintenance and everything like that goes away with it. >> Alright Paul, talking about different architectures, you mentioned IoT, so I have to imagine that's having significant impact on your industry. >> It is. >> Walk us through that. What are you seeing, what is Honeywell's role there, what are your customers doing? >> It's actually an interesting area for Honeywell Process Solutions because first of all, we've been doing IoT for 30 years, in terms of really, from Honeywell Process Solutions. >> You were the hipster IoT company. >> Really, oh that's good, that's a compliment. >> Is that what you were saying, you were IoT before it was cool, is what I understand. (laughter) >> We've been out there doing it, I mean, our job in Honeywell Process Solutions is to take field data, marry it with an inch device, create value there and sometimes just make that available on the internet, but getting back to your question, though, is the IoT way of life is changing how we go through and do things. First of all, there's data that's out there that previously, people wouldn't have considered valuable, okay, so that data, they're trying to extract that data out there, so we're, I guess there's a wave if you will of people trying to get that previously non-valuable data out of the field, so that's one part there. Sometimes as well, projects are very, very geographically dispersed. Traditionally you would have had like a plant infrastructure and it would've been in a self-contained area but now it can be in over a very wide geographical area. So you've got to have a controller, which potentially is on the internet, and have that be highly secure all the way back to then, the sources that need to go through and consume that. So that's a difference in how it's going through and impacting us. But I think as well, there's I guess, building an awareness out there in the market of trying to go through and extract more information and more intelligence out of the data that people are already getting, and driving new waves there as well. >> What are some of the lessons you're helping customers, especially OT, understand when they move from this isolated manufacturing network to this distributed network, that they're extracting value from, but they're also exposing security risks, and just you know, control risks. They're not used to operating at this multi, manufacturing facility perspective, from an IT perspective. They're in essence becoming IT. What are some of the pitfalls you're helping them to avoid? >> Sure, well I think security is a great one that you've just gone through and mentioned there. Anything that we're, data that's running the plant, first and foremost, needs to be secure in terms of going through and doing that. So I think that's one of the first things is how you go through and design that system and make it secure. And so I think that's one of the areas there. But also, to extract data and value out of it requires infrastructure to be able to store the data, to be able to go through and allow third parties to do analytics and other types of things; on top of that, infrastructure. So Honeywell's doing a lot to provide that back-end infrastructure that people can go through and do data mining and do analytics, and solving those new problems on that infrastructure. >> So, this power of FX2, the Dell EMC reference architecture, the VMare vSAN, gives an awful lot of computer. I think competitors like AWS will come in and say, you know what, AWS Snowball Edge is designed for this big data use case where we can ingest IoT data at the edge, do some light processing on it. What are you running from a practical perspective that you're seeing users say you know that just isn't enough, we need this power of the FX2, this Dell EMC reference architecture and vSAN. >> Sure, sure. So I think it's serving a different market segment. So absolutely there's a market segment out there that says, I'm prepared to take my data and put it into an Edge device and send it to a cloud, into AWS, or wherever, okay and that's absolutely a market segment that's out there. But there's another segment of market and it is quite large, for manufacturing, that says, no, the data that I'm ingesting needs to stay within my corporate control, within the boundaries of the corporation, okay. And it's those types of customers there that need that on-premise compute capacity to be able to ingest that data, to be able to display it to operators, to be able to go through and solve other problems with that data; it needs to be local. And that could just be because they don't trust it, because remember, we lag in terms of our, our adoption. We're lagging as an industry in general. So I think it's a lot of those types of reasons, yeah. >> So I'm kind of curious about a practical self process. Again, these OT folks don't look at their traditional 100 racks and say, we need to do something with this. We need to change it. If it works, why change it? Especially in manufacturing. What's the catalyst for change? >> Sure, absolutely, well I think in a lot of these industries there, they're losing people in terms of the people that run those types of plants there. So I think the first catalyst for change is, I had all of this equipment that was taking me all of these people to go through and maintain. I just don't have those people anymore. I need to do more with less. So by removing those pieces of equipment there, I make myself sort of more efficient. Not only in terms of the maintenance of those pieces of equipment there, but there's always on-going changes that need to be made to these environments as well, so you need to be able to go through and deploy new virtual machines, you know, far more agile environment. And when you're dealing with, say, physical pieces of equipment, if I wanted to deploy a new node, I would need to order that node from a supplier. I would then need to go through and commission it, install the software, and rack it, and then do all that, I mean that's months and months and months of work and effort. With a virtual machine, I just go through and deploy it, and I'm done. Yeah. >> Paul, just want to get your final take. VMworld, the show itself, kind of the experience as a partner, what's your takeaway from that? >> It's been fantastic, for me, VMworld is always about the relationships and the conversations that go through and take place, whether that be with partners like VMware, or whether it be with other supplies that I go through and do business with, and everyone's here. It's just one of the events where it's just, you're only limited by your ability to get your calendar organized and see all of the people that you want to do. That's the only limit of what you can achieve here. But it's just been a fantastic event this year and Honeywell's been glad to be here. >> Paul Hodge, Honeywell Process Solutions. Really appreciate you joining us, and absolutely agree a thousand percent, I'm sure Keith would attest to this also, if you're not at this show, you need to be here next year. If you're in the European one, you should go over there. So many conversations, we're happy to bring you a number of them, give you just a taste or a flavor of what's been happening at VMworld 2017. Thank you for joining us for three days of program. We're going to be wrapping up shortly, but all of it goes on the website and check it all out. Thank you so much for watching theCUBE. (electronic music)

>> Voiceover: Live from the Javits Center in New York City, it's The Cube, covering Inforum 2017. Brought to you by Infor. >> Welcome back to The Cube's coverage of Inforum. I am your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Dave Vellante. We're joined by Terry Wise. He is the Vice President of Alliances for AWS. Thanks so much for coming on the program again. >> It's great to be here, yeah, thanks. >> So we are now a few years into this relationship with Infor. Where are we? Put things in perspective for us. >> Oh it's a great question. I think in some respects, this is arguably the most mature and strategic relationship we have. We've been working with Infor for, I've been at Amazon now nine years, and a better part of my nine years, we've been working with Infor, you know. In the early days it was awesome, before Infor bought the company. And, they've always done a great job of pushing us to be more enterprise-centric, more innovative in our platform and services. So it's very mature from that perspective. But I'd say, also at the same time, we're just entering a whole new days. We'd like to call it Day One at Amazon. If you look at some of the things that Charles and the team announced today with Coleman, and some of the new functionality and the growth of the cloud, I mean, we really are still at the early stages of this relationship, which is exciting. >> You know what's interesting to me Terry is, you know, Andy always talks about the fly wheel. He was, sort of, the first to use that terminology. And I was sitting in the endless meeting yesterday, and Infor was going through its architecture. And I just saw a lot of fly wheel in there. I mean, there is DynamoDB in there. I certainly saw S3. I think there was Kinesis, in terms of time series stuff. I think I saw Redshift in there. And so I wonder if you could talk about how this company, specifically, but generally, how people are leveraging net fly wheel of innovation to drive value for their customers. >> Yeah. And again, I think this goes back to the relationship we've had with Infor for so many years. Cloud is not just about cheap computing storage. It's really about platform and innovation that comes from that platform. And, you know, and partners and customers, like Infor, that have been with us a while, and they've got the skillsets internally, they've got great vision for how they want to take their customers with application functionality. They're really ripe to be able to take advantage of all the innovative platform services we build. Kinesis, Lambda for serverless computing. We're talking about some neat things around Edge. You heard Charles and Duncan today talk about Lex and some of the AI capabilities we have that are underpinning Coleman and some other new offerings. So they really are, kind of, the poster child for adopting our new services and driving innovation on top of our platform for their customer base. >> So where, if you can, look into your crystal ball a little bit. Where will we be a year from now, three years from now, with these technologies? >> So if I look out a year, I think, you know, rapid global expansion. You know, we're long past in many respects, sort of the, the early questions around cloud. Is it secure? Is it cost-effective? Is it robust and reliable? We're really past that if I look out across the globe. And now it's a question of how can we help enterprises adapt faster. And that's really, probably, the single biggest question I get from enterprise customers is, "This is great. Help me move quickly." And I think one of the neat things about the Infor relationship is, because they've packaged all of this innovation, into a set of business applications, they're actually helping customers move to the cloud quite a bit faster, and get that great value prop of cost efficiency, security, innovation, et cetera. Looking out three years, I think Duncan and the team did a very nice job today talking about the interaction ad user experience of how you're going to engage with business software moving forward. It's going to be very voice-driven. It's going to be predictive in nature so it's actually going to tell you what you need to think about versus going to a terminal or even a mobile device. So much left to do in that space. But I really do think, you know, three years from now, machine-learning won't be a buzz word, nor will artificial intelligence. It'll just be a bigger part of our daily lives. >> We were talking to Chip Coyle a little bit about trying to debunk some of the myths in cloud, specifically Amazon cloud. And I mentioned Oracle, saying that core enterprise apps really aren't going to the cloud, that's why you need Oracle. And they've got a strategy to do that, you've seen it. But then you going to see Infor, 55% of their business is in your cloud. They look like core enterprise apps. So is it, my question is, help us debunk that myth. But is it narrowly confined to companies like Infor, or are there examples of others? I mean, certainly there are companies, you guys have unbelievable logo chart. But when you peel back the onion, many of those apps are cloud-native or emerging apps. Those core of enterprise apps, we're seeing it from Infor. I wonder if you can add some color to that and are there other examples? >> Absolutely, I mean, I think there's others in the market that may be uncomfortable with the change that's happening with cloud, and therefore might be incented to try to slow that down. But I will say, the vast majority of all software companies we're engaging with are moving mission-critical enterprise apps to AWS. Some built natively in SaaS, like Infor is done. Others that are enabling, certifying their applications, SAP is another good example. You can kind of go across the stack, Adobe, AutoDesk, Siemens PLM, for product lifecycle management. And if you think about, you know, that's putting companies' core IP, the product development into the cloud to take advantage of all this agility, scale, cost-savings, et cetera. So it's been happening for a long time. Di-so is another great one, very innovative but somewhat conservative french company. They were very early on in the journey with us. And again, that's, you know, IP used to design airplanes, the things we fly around it. So it's been happening for a long time. It's accelerating. And I would say the other trend we're seeing is the companies out there that are resisting, we're hearing more and more from customers that, "Hey, that company is not helping move me to the future. Can you help me find an alternative?" So there's this big movement for enterprises to actually migrate out of legacy platforms, whether that's hardware or software, and move in to the cloud-native platforms, which are the future. >> So we see, we've been talking on The Cube for years about this whole digital transformation and how it's going to allow companies to play in different industries. Amazon, obviously. Retailer just purchased Whole Foods, getting into grocery. It's a content company. So Walmart said, "Alright, we're not going to put our stuff "in the Amazon cloud." Netflix obviously does. How do you deal with that? The obvious competitive fears of some of the customers that you have for AWS? How do you message that? And what do you tell the world? >> Sure, the first thing is, I mean, AWS, while it is part of Amazon.com, we are a separate operating group. And we've been that way since the beginning. So yeah, Amazon is a customer, just like Netflix or Nordstrom, or any of the other, you know, millions that we serve. Now a very hard customer and a very good customer. And they help drive our innovation road map. But we don't treat them any differently than we do, Netflix or the others. And part of that has to do with how we protect and secure the information that those companies put on AWS. So there's some companies out there, the one you just mentioned, that's still may be a bit uncomfortable, for whatever reasons, competitive reasons, putting information or having third parties put information related to their business on AWS. Yeah, I think that's unfortunate, I think. And it also talks about two different philosophies. We take very much a customer-centric view of the business. What's best for the customer. And if one of our partners has a better capability, we've got plenty of partners that have similar products to what we offer, but if it's the better product for the customer, we're more than happy to support that. Whereas others out there take a very competitive focus to the market. Where it's, they're watching what their competitors are doing. They're trying to head them off at the pass, or copy what their competitors are doing. In the long term, I don't think that's a fantastic strategy 'coz you're never really innovating on behalf of the customer. You're never giving them the best solution. You're actually preventing them from getting something that could be beneficial to that customer. And we just don't believe that's a long-term great business strategy for our customers and for ourselves. >> We recently saw the announcement of Amazon purchasing Whole Foods. Can you talk a little bit about this for our viewers. And talk about where, how you see the future of grocery and retail, where it's going. >> Sure, so we've announced our intention to purchase Whole Foods. It has not happenned. There's still some work to do there. But I think, you know, anytime we look at, you know, how we're going to expand, either organically or through acquisition, it's about, what are the synergies between our existing business, what the customers are looking for, and how can we create a better experience for that customer. How can we do it at scale? How can we innovate around that model? And then, you know, how can we make that a great long-term experience for the customer that ultimately drives the success and growth of our business, but also the partners that we bring in, whether again through acquisition or through third party partnership. This is kind of a, you look at this as a natural move as we look at what our customers are telling us, "Hey make it easier for us to purchase groceries and "household items." You know, and do it in a hybrid way, both, you know, combination of online and more from the physical presence. >> Terry I wonder if you could talk about, we mentioned the Edge before. And as you build out your partner strategy and the partner ecosystem. Talk more about the Edge, where it fits. Analytics at the Edge, and Amazon being the cloud, so what's your point of view on what happens at the Edge, what moves back to the cloud, the expense of moving things back to the cloud. What's your thought on that whole thing? >> Well, there's so many use cases for Edge computing. I mean, take the mining industry. You're putting huge trucks in the middle of nowhere that may have limited or very expensive connectivity. And they're capturing all kinds of, you know, information, during the natural operation of that machine. And it just makes sense that you want some level of data processing, storage, and analytics to happen on that machine. It could be a cruise ship, it could be a naval vessel, it could be an airplane. There's, you know, lots and lots of different applications there. But by doing some of that processing at the Edge, you're actually limiting the amount of data you have to send back to the central cloud. But of course, if you want to take full advantage of the analytics, you actually have to match that data with all the historical data and other real-time data that's resided in the cloud to get the result you're looking for. So it really becomes, you know, kind of this hybrid computing model. So some of it is efficiency around how much data you're sending back and forth. Some of it is just efficiency around processing, the point of data capture. Some due to connectivity reasons. Some due to other. It really is kind of this interesting new extension of hybrid cloud, if you will. We're very excited about it. >> You've made some moves in that area. I mean, Snowball was, I think, you know, one of the first. And there are other sort of Edge, what I would consider Edge-like devices or solutions. How dogmatic are you about everything living in the cloud? I mean, those are steps. Should we expect, you know, increasingly extending the reach of the cloud or is it just really going to all, your world come back to the AWS clouds? >> Yeah, yeah. It'll certainly be an extension of the cloud. That's already been happening. I mean, if you look at hybrid cloud. I think we've always been a supporter of hybrid cloud if you look at our roadmap going back many, many years with virtual private cloud, with Direct Connect, with some of the newer capabilities like Snowball, and, of course, Greengrass, our Edge capabilities. We're really extending the reach out to be much more of a hybrid store. 'Coz we recognize that not all the data today exist in the cloud or AWS in the future, you know. We think most applications will run in the cloud because the value proposition is so strong across so many different dimensions. But today, there's plenty of other places we have to connect to, again to capture the data. Now, I do think the vast majority of the data that we're capturing will be either pre-processed or sent natively into AWS to create a massive data leg so that you can start to drive these innovative machine-learning and artificial intelligence applications. The predictive analytics, the algorithms. They just don't work if you don't, they don't work effectively if you don't have massive amounts of data and you continuously refresh that data so that the algorithms can continue to learn. >> I want to double click on something you said about the value. To capture most of the value, your belief is that it's going to be in the cloud, one cloud. And others obviously have different view for a variety of different reasons. I buy the cost argument. You didn't make that argument, I'm making it. The marginal cost of having a single cloud. You know, standard, how much an A it is, superior. I'll grant that. What else is there though? Is it speed? Is it innovation? Is it standardization across the base? >> The single biggest value that I hear from customers today, but they love it, they love the cheap hosting fees, the efficiency part of it, but it really is the speed and agility. It's certainly the security model as well. I would say that most, almost every organization now that we talk to, once we've had the chance to educate them, if they haven't already done so themselves, has determined that the cloud-computing security model is much more effective than they could deliver on their own. We can just invest more. We can experiment more. We can have have multiple certifications across different industries, which every customer gets to take advantage of. But I would just come back, it's the ability to move quickly whether it's moving into new market. I was just in Europe, we were talking about it. It's so volatile there right now on so many dimensions with Brexit and some of the nationalistic politics things that are happening. Potentially the opening up more of the Middle East with the sovereign wealth funds comin' into play. There's just so much opportunity that enterprises need to be able to move quickly. And if they have to go stand up a data center somewhere else, or they can't deploy the software quickly, they're at a competitive disadvantage. So the single biggest driver from what I hear from customers and what I'm seeing is agility. >> Yeah, okay, so just to clarify, I said, cost not price. But we can debate that some other time. (Terry laughs) You just came back from Europe. You mentioned Brexit. What about things like GDPR which has taken effect but the penalties go in effect May of 18. Obviously that puts a lot of pressure on the cloud provider, as well as your customers. What are you hearing in Europe? And generally and specifically GDPR. >> Yeah, I mean, I would say the regulatory environment everywhere, but specifically in Europe, continues to evolve and it's fairly fluid. We've spent many years working with the various different regulatory bodies. The Article 29 Working Party. That's actually been crafting a lot of this legislation. So we're heavily influencing, because, if you step back, people said you couldn't do cloud, but they didn't explicitly say you could. (Rebecca and Dave laugh) So, customers are meant to, "How do I interpret this?" And some, you know, like, if I look at Nel, and I look at Societe Generale, and I look at BMW, and some of, you know, our forward-leaning European customers, Siemens is another great one, who was one of the original companies to put PII in the cloud. Here's a big German company putting PII in AWS a number of years ago. So we figured out how to get, not get around, but interpret the regulations, and then also ensure that we've got the features and capabilities to make sure that they comply with those regulations. So the full audit trail, the ability to encrypt data, the ability to make sure that data storage and localization is complying with, whether it's a country-level regulation or an industry-level regulation. So we continue to spend a lot of time and effort, monitoring and influencing that. And then building the services to make sure our customers fully comply. >> Well, you've always done well with permutations and complexity and automating that, so it's going to be fun to watch. >> Rebecca: It will indeed. >> Great. >> Terry thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. It's been a lot of fun talking to you. >> Yeah, great, thanks, appreciate it. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante. We will have more from Inforum just after this. (upbeat music)

(theCUBE theme music) >> Narrator: Live from Washington D.C. It's theCUBE, covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its partner ecosystem. >> Welcome back here to the show floor at AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Along with John Furrier, I'm John Walls. Glad to have you here on theCUBE as we continue our coverage here live from the nation's capital. Joining us now from Enlighten IT Consulting is John Eubank IV, Director of Program Management Office. John, thanks for joining us here on theCUBE, a CUBE rookie, I believe, is that correct? >> Yes, sir, yeah, thanks for the invite. >> Nice to break the maiden, good to have you aboard here. First off, tell us a little bit about your consulting firm for our viewers at home, to give an idea about your frame and why you're here at AWS. >> Absolutely, so we're a big data consulting company focused on cyber security solutions for the DOD IC community. What we jumped into about three years ago was a partnership with AWS. And seeing, just the volume, the velocity of data coming out of the DOD, that those on-premise server farms could not keep up, could not support it with the power, space and cooling needs. So we partnered with AWS and over the last three years we've been migrating our customers up to GovCloud, specifically. >> So what are you doing then for DOD specifically, then? When you said you solve problems, right? They've got reams and reams of data, trying to help them manage that process a little bit better, but, you know, drill down a little bit more specifically what you're doing for DOD. >> Absolutely, so we developed a proprietary technology called the Rapid Analytic Deployment and Management Framework, RADMF, it's available on RADMF.com, R A D M F dot com. >> John Walls: True marketer. >> Yeah, true marketer at heart. So that's our, sort of governance framework for DOD applications that want to move to the cloud. It automates the deployment process to get 'em out of their existing systems up to the cloud. One of the real problems inside the DOD that we've encountered is the disparate data sets to enable effective analytics when it comes to cyber security solutions. So, I like to think back to the day one conversation about, sort of the data swamp, not the data lake. That's exactly what we have inside the DOD. There's so many home-built sensors, paired with COT sensors, that it's created this absolute mess, or nightmare of data. That swamp needs to be drained. It needs to be, sort of refined in a way that we can call it a data lake, something understandable that people can-- >> I hate the term data lake, I, you've been listening, I, John knows I hate the term data lake. Love the term data swamp, because it illustrates exactly that, there is, if you don't watch the data, and don't share it, it's just stagnant, and it turns into a swamp. And I think, this is a huge issue. >> John Eubank IV: Absolutely correct. >> So I want you to just double down on that, just give some color. Is it the volume of the data, is it the lack of sharing, both? (laughs) >> It's really every, it's everything under the sun, there's, you know, sharing issues all across the federal government right now and who can see what data, Navy doesn't want to share with Army, inside the IC-- >> John Furrier: Well that'll never happen. >> Agencies don't want to share with each other. (laughs) I think we're, we're breaking down those walls. We're seeing that, when it comes to cyber security, no one person can defend an entire nation. No one agency can defend an entire nation on their own. It has to be a collaborative solution. It has to be a team effort. Navy, Army, Air Force, IC, etc., have to work together, in tendem, in partnership, if we're ever going to just, defend our nation from cyber hackers. >> I want to ask you a philosophical question, because, you know, as someone who's been online all my life, computer science, you've seen, there's always the notion of trolling, the notion of online message boards, back in the day when I was running, is now main stream now, >> John Eubank IV: Right. >> I mean people trolling each other on Twitter, for crying out loud, main stream. So, the culture of digital has an ethos, and open source is a big driver on that cyber security, there's a huge ethos of sharing, and it's kind of an honor among practitioners. >> John Eubank IV: Mm-hmm. 'cause they know how big the threat is. How is that evolving? Because this seems to highlight, your point about sharing, that it's, the digital world's different than the analog world, and some of the practices that are getting traction can be doubled-down on. So everyone's trying to figure out what's, what should be double-down on, and what are the good practices from the bad? Can you just share some cultural... >> Well, I think you hit the nail on the head with the open source model there. That is the key right here. It's not even within the government we need to share. It's industry and government, in partnership, need to approach these problem sets together and work on 'em as one cohesive body. So, for example, our company, our platform, it's entirely an open source platform. It's government-owned solution. We don't sell, it's the big data platform, it's provided by DISA right now. We don't sell that product. It's available to any government agency that wants it for free. We have 1500 different software developers and engineers from across the government community that collaborate together to evolve that platform. And that's really the only way we're going to make a significan difference right now. >> That creativity that could come out of this new process that you're referring to, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here on theCUBE, is interesting because you think about all those people on Twitch. >> John Eubank IV: Uh-huh. >> 34 million, I think, a day or whatever the big number, it's a huge number. Those idle gamers could be actually collaborating on a core problem that could be fun. So if you look at a crowd sourcing model of attacking data, this is kind of a whole new mindset of culture. To me, this is the kind of doors that open up when you start thinking like this model. Because the bad guys are already ahead of the game. I mean, so, how do you, how do you guys talk about that, 'cause you guys have to kind of keep some data masked, and you have to kind of, maybe not expose everything. How do you balance that secretive nature of it, and yet opening it up? >> That's a question that the DHS is struggling with, sort of day in and day out right now. They're going through a couple different iterations of different efforts. There was the ESSA program, there's the Automated Indicator Sharing program going on right now with DHS and some of the IC partners of what do we share with industry, because we're recognizing as a government we can't defend this nation on our own. We need an industry partnership. How do we open that up to the general public of the United States to do that crowd sourced mentality. Threat hunting is a lot of fun if you know what you're doing, and if somebody will guide you down the path, it's an endless world and a need for threat analysts to study the data sets that are out there. Indicators of compromise point you in a general direction, but they're a wide-open direction, and... >> They're already playing, it's like lagging in a video game, they're, gamers are already ahead of, the hackers are already ahead of you. Interesting point, Berkeley, University of California at Berkeley has a new program, they call it the quote Navy Seals of cyber. It's an integrated computer science and engineering and Haas business school program. And it's a four-year degree specifically for a special forces kind of thinking. Interdisciplinary, highly data driven, computer science, engineering and business so they can understand, again, hackers run a business model. These are organized units. This is kind of what we're up against. >> Absolutely agree. >> John Furrier: What are your thoughts on that? You think that's the, the right direction, we need more of it? >> We need more of it, absolutely. DOD is moving in the same direction with the cyber protection teams or CPTs. They're beginning to do sort of the same formal training models for the soldiers. Unfortunately, right now a lot of the cyber protection teams are just scavenged resources from other branches of the military. So you have guys in EOD that are now transitioning into cyber, and they're going from diffusing bombs to diffusing cyber threats. It's a totally different scenario and use case, and it's a tough struggle to transition into that when your background was diffusing a bomb. >> And you brought up the industry collaboration, talking about private, you know, private sector and public sector. I know, you know, personal experience in the wireless space, there was a lot of desire to share information, but yet there was a congressional reluctance. >> John Eubank IV: Mm-hmm. >> To allow that. For different concerns. Some we thought were very unwarranted at the time. So how do you deal with that, because that's another influence in this, is that you might have willing parties, but you've got another body over here that might not be on board. >> I think we're going to start seeing more of a shift as private industry acknowledges their need for government support and that government collaboration, so data breaches like the Target breach and massive credit card breaches that, you know, these private industries cannot keep up with defending their own network. They need government supoort for defending very large corporations. Walmart, Target, Home Depot, the list goes on of breaches. >> Final question as we wrap up here, but what's the coolest tech that you're seeing that's enabling you to be successful, whether it's cool tech that you're looking at, you're kicking the tires on. From software to Amazon, hardware, what are you seeing that's out there that's really moving the needle and getting people motivated? >> So a surprising thing there, I'm going to say the Snowball Edge. And people go, it's just a data hard drive. Well, not really. It's way more than a data hard drive. So when you come to Amazon you think enterprise solutions, enterprise capabilities. What the Snowball Edge provides is a deployable unit that has processing, compute, storage, etc., onboard that you can take into your local networks. They're putting it so you can run any VM you want on the Snowball Edge. What we're doing is we're taking that inside DOD tactical spaces that don't have connections to the internet. We're able to do computation analytics on threats facing that local regional onclave using a hard drive. It's really cool technology that hasn't been fully explored, but that's uh, that's where we're-- >> You can tell you're excited about it. Your eyes light up, you got a big smile on your face. >> Drove the new Ferrari that came out. >> Yeah, right. >> When I saw it, I just jumped all in. >> John Walls: You loved it, right. >> So, three months ago... >> You knew right away, too. >> Right. >> John Furrier: The big wheel. >> John, thank you for being with us. I think they're going to kick us out of the place, John. >> Hey, they got to unplug us. We're going to go until they unplug us. >> Alright, John, again thanks for being with us. >> Well, thank you guys for your time, much appreciated. >> Thank you for joining us here from Washington, for all of us here at theCUBE, we appreciate you being along for the ride at AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. (theCUBE theme music)

>> Announcer: Please welcome Vice President of Worldwide Marketing, Amazon Web Services, Ariel Kelman. (applause) (techno music) >> Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for coming. I hope you guys are having a great day here. It is my pleasure to introduce to come up on stage here, the CEO of Amazon Web Services, Andy Jassy. (applause) (techno music) >> Okay. Let's get started. I have a bunch of questions here for you, Andy. >> Just like one of our meetings, Ariel. >> Just like one of our meetings. So, I thought I'd start with a little bit of a state of the state on AWS. Can you give us your quick take? >> Yeah, well, first of all, thank you, everyone, for being here. We really appreciate it. We know how busy you guys are. So, hope you're having a good day. You know, the business is growing really quickly. In the last financials, we released, in Q four of '16, AWS is a 14 billion dollar revenue run rate business, growing 47% year over year. We have millions of active customers, and we consider an active customer as a non-Amazon entity that's used the platform in the last 30 days. And it's really a very broad, diverse customer set, in every imaginable size of customer and every imaginable vertical business segment. And I won't repeat all the customers that I know Werner went through earlier in the keynote, but here are just some of the more recent ones that you've seen, you know NELL is moving their their digital and their connected devices, meters, real estate to AWS. McDonalds is re-inventing their digital platform on top of AWS. FINRA is moving all in to AWS, yeah. You see at Reinvent, Workday announced AWS was its preferred cloud provider, and to start building on top of AWS further. Today, in press releases, you saw both Dunkin Donuts and Here, the geo-spatial map company announced they'd chosen AWS as their provider. You know and then I think if you look at our business, we have a really large non-US or global customer base and business that continues to expand very dramatically. And we're also aggressively increasing the number of geographic regions in which we have infrastructure. So last year in 2016, on top of the broad footprint we had, we added Korea, India, and Canada, and the UK. We've announced that we have regions coming, another one in China, in Ningxia, as well as in France, as well as in Sweden. So we're not close to being done expanding geographically. And then of course, we continue to iterate and innovate really quickly on behalf of all of you, of our customers. I mean, just last year alone, we launched what we considered over 1,000 significant services and features. So on average, our customers wake up every day and have three new capabilities they can choose to use or not use, but at their disposal. You've seen it already this year, if you look at Chime, which is our new unified communication service. It makes meetings much easier to conduct, be productive with. You saw Connect, which is our new global call center routing service. If you look even today, you look at Redshift Spectrum, which makes it easy to query all your data, not just locally on disk in your data warehouse but across all of S3, or DAX, which puts a cash in front of DynamoDB, we use the same interface, or all the new features in our machine learning services. We're not close to being done delivering and iterating on your behalf. And I think if you look at that collection of things, it's part of why, as Gartner looks out at the infrastructure space, they estimate the AWS is several times the size business of the next 14 providers combined. It's a pretty significant market segment leadership position. >> You talked a lot about adopts in there, a lot of customers moving to AWS, migrating large numbers of workloads, some going all in on AWS. And with that as kind of backdrop, do you still see a role for hybrid as being something that's important for customers? >> Yeah, it's funny. The quick answer is yes. I think the, you know, if you think about a few years ago, a lot of the rage was this debate about private cloud versus what people call public cloud. And we don't really see that debate very often anymore. I think relatively few companies have had success with private clouds, and most are pretty substantially moving in the direction of building on top of clouds like AWS. But, while you increasingly see more and more companies every month announcing that they're going all in to the cloud, we will see most enterprises operate in some form of hybrid mode for the next number of years. And I think in the early days of AWS and the cloud, I think people got confused about this, where they thought that they had to make this binary decision to either be all in on the public cloud and AWS or not at all. And of course that's not the case. It's not a binary decision. And what we know many of our enterprise customers want is they want to be able to run the data centers that they're not ready to retire yet as seamlessly as they can alongside of AWS. And it's why we've built a lot of the capabilities we've built the last several years. These are things like PPC, which is our virtual private cloud, which allows you to cordon off a portion of our network, deploy resources into it and connect to it through VPN or Direct Connect, which is a private connection between your data centers and our regions or our storage gateway, which is a virtual storage appliance, or Identity Federation, or a whole bunch of capabilities like that. But what we've seen, even though the vast majority of the big hybrid implementations today are built on top of AWS, as more and more of the mainstream enterprises are now at the point where they're really building substantial cloud adoption plans, they've come back to us and they've said, well, you know, actually you guys have made us make kind of a binary decision. And that's because the vast majority of the world is virtualized on top of VMWare. And because VMWare and AWS, prior to a few months ago, had really done nothing to try and make it easy to use the VMWare tools that people have been using for many years seamlessly with AWS, customers were having to make a binary choice. Either they stick with the VMWare tools they've used for a while but have a really tough time integrating with AWS, or they move to AWS and they have to leave behind the VMWare tools they've been using. And it really was the impetus for VMWare and AWS to have a number of deep conversations about it, which led to the announcement we made late last fall of VMWare and AWS, which is going to allow customers who have been using the VMWare tools to manage their infrastructure for a long time to seamlessly be able to run those on top of AWS. And they get to do so as they move workloads back and forth and they evolve their hybrid implementation without having to buy any new hardware, which is a big deal for companies. Very few companies are looking to find ways to buy more hardware these days. And customers have been very excited about this prospect. We've announced that it's going to be ready in the middle of this year. You see companies like Amadeus and Merck and Western Digital and the state of Louisiana, a number of others, we've a very large, private beta and preview happening right now. And people are pretty excited about that prospect. So we will allow customers to run in the mode that they want to run, and I think you'll see a huge transition over the next five to 10 years. >> So in addition to hybrid, another question we get a lot from enterprises around the concept of lock-in and how they should think about their relationship with the vendor and how they should think about whether to spread the workloads across multiple infrastructure providers. How do you think about that? >> Well, it's a question we get a lot. And Oracle has sure made people care about that issue. You know, I think people are very sensitive about being locked in, given the experience that they've had over the last 10 to 15 years. And I think the reality is when you look at the cloud, it really is nothing like being locked into something like Oracle. The APIs look pretty similar between the various providers. We build an open standard, it's like Linux and MySQL and Postgres. All the migration tools that we build allow you to migrate in or out of AWS. It's up to customers based on how they want to run their workload. So it is much easier to move away from something like the cloud than it is from some of the old software services that has created some of this phobia. But I think when you look at most CIOs, enterprise CIOs particularly, as they think about moving to the cloud, many of them started off thinking that they, you know, very well might split their workloads across multiple cloud providers. And I think when push comes to shove, very few decide to do so. Most predominately pick an infrastructure provider to run their workloads. And the reason that they don't split it across, you know, pretty evenly across clouds is a few reasons. Number one, if you do so, you have to standardize in the lowest common denominator. And these platforms are in radically different stages at this point. And if you look at something like AWS, it has a lot more functionality than anybody else by a large margin. And we're also iterating more quickly than you'll find from the other providers. And most folks don't want to tie the hands of their developers behind their backs in the name of having the ability of splitting it across multiple clouds, cause they actually are, in most of their spaces, competitive, and they have a lot of ideas that they want to actually build and invent on behalf of their customers. So, you know, they don't want to actually limit their functionality. It turns out the second reason is that they don't want to force their development teams to have to learn multiple platforms. And most development teams, if any of you have managed multiple stacks across different technologies, and many of us have had that experience, it's a pain in the butt. And trying to make a shift from what you've been doing for the last 30 years on premises to the cloud is hard enough. But then forcing teams to have to get good at running across two or three platforms is something most teams don't relish, and it's wasteful of people's time, it's wasteful of natural resources. That's the second thing. And then the third reason is that you effectively diminish your buying power because all of these cloud providers have volume discounts, and then you're splitting what you buy across multiple providers, which gives you a lower amount you buy from everybody at a worse price. So when most CIOs and enterprises look at this carefully, they don't actually end up splitting it relatively evenly. They predominately pick a cloud provider. Some will just pick one. Others will pick one and then do a little bit with a second, just so they know they can run with a second provider, in case that relationship with the one they choose to predominately run with goes sideways in some fashion. But when you really look at it, CIOs are not making that decision to split it up relatively evenly because it makes their development teams much less capable and much less agile. >> Okay, let's shift gears a little bit, talk about a subject that's on the minds of not just enterprises but startups and government organizations and pretty much every organization we talk to. And that's AI and machine learning. Reinvent, we introduced our Amazon AI services and just this morning Werner announced the general availability of Amazon Lex. So where are we overall on machine learning? >> Well it's a hugely exciting opportunity for customers, and I think, we believe it's exciting for us as well. And it's still in the relatively early stages, if you look at how people are using it, but it's something that we passionately believe is going to make a huge difference in the world and a huge difference with customers, and that we're investing a pretty gigantic amount of resource and capability for our customers. And I think the way that we think about, at a high level, the machine learning and deep learning spaces are, you know, there's kind of three macro layers of the stack. I think at that bottom layer, it's generally for the expert machine learning practitioners, of which there are relatively few in the world. It's a scarce resource relative to what I think will be the case in five, 10 years from now. And these are folks who are comfortable working with deep learning engines, know how to build models, know how to tune those models, know how to do inference, know how to get that data from the models into production apps. And for that group of people, if you look at the vast majority of machine learning and deep learning that's being done in the cloud today, it's being done on top of AWS, are P2 instances, which are optimized for deep learning and our deep learning AMIs, that package, effectively the deep learning engines and libraries inside those AMIs. And you see companies like Netflix, Nvidia, and Pinterest and Stanford and a whole bunch of others that are doing significant amounts of machine learning on top of those optimized instances for machine learning and the deep learning AMIs. And I think that you can expect, over time, that we'll continue to build additional capabilities and tools for those expert practitioners. I think we will support and do support every single one of the deep learning engines on top of AWS, and we have a significant amount of those workloads with all those engines running on top of AWS today. We also are making, I would say, a disproportionate investment of our own resources and the MXNet community just because if you look at running deep learning models once you get beyond a few GPUs, it's pretty difficult to have those scale as you get into the hundreds of GPUs. And most of the deep learning engines don't scale very well horizontally. And so what we've found through a lot of extensive testing, cause remember, Amazon has thousands of deep learning experts inside the company that have built very sophisticated deep learning capabilities, like the ones you see in Alexa, we have found that MXNet scales the best and almost linearly, as we continue to add nodes, as we continue to horizontally scale. So we have a lot of investment at that bottom layer of the stack. Now, if you think about most companies with developers, it's still largely inaccessible to them to do the type of machine learning and deep learning that they'd really like to do. And that's because the tools, I think, are still too primitive. And there's a number of services out there, we built one ourselves in Amazon Machine Learning that we have a lot of customers use, and yet I would argue that all of those services, including our own, are still more difficult than they should be for everyday developers to be able to build machine learning and access machine learning and deep learning. And if you look at the history of what AWS has done, in every part of our business, and a lot of what's driven us, is trying to democratize technologies that were really only available and accessible before to a select, small number of companies. And so we're doing a lot of work at what I would call that middle layer of the stack to get rid of a lot of the muck associated with having to do, you know, building the models, tuning the models, doing the inference, figuring how to get the data into production apps, a lot of those capabilities at that middle layer that we think are really essential to allow deep learning and machine learning to reach its full potential. And then at the top layer of the stack, we think of those as solutions. And those are things like, pass me an image and I'll tell you what that image is, or show me this face, does it match faces in this group of faces, or pass me a string of text and I'll give you an mpg file, or give me some words and what your intent is and then I'll be able to return answers that allow people to build conversational apps like the Lex technology. And we have a whole bunch of other services coming in that area, atop of Lex and Polly and Recognition, and you can imagine some of those that we've had to use in Amazon over the years that we'll continue to make available for you, our customers. So very significant level of investment at all three layers of that stack. We think it's relatively early days in the space but have a lot of passion and excitement for that. >> Okay, now for ML and AI, we're seeing customers wanting to load in tons of data, both to train the models and to actually process data once they've built their models. And then outside of ML and AI, we're seeing just as much demand to move in data for analytics and traditional workloads. So as people are looking to move more and more data to the cloud, how are we thinking about making it easier to get data in? >> It's a great question. And I think it's actually an often overlooked question because a lot of what gets attention with customers is all the really interesting services that allow you to do everything from compute and storage and database and messaging and analytics and machine learning and AI. But at the end of the day, if you have a significant amount of data already somewhere else, you have to get it into the cloud to be able to take advantage of all these capabilities that you don't have on premises. And so we have spent a disproportionate amount of focus over the last few years trying to build capabilities for our customers to make this easier. And we have a set of capabilities that really is not close to matched anywhere else, in part because we have so many customers who are asking for help in this area that it's, you know, that's really what drives what we build. So of course, you could use the good old-fashioned wire to send data over the internet. Increasingly, we find customers that are trying to move large amounts of data into S3, is using our S3 transfer acceleration service, which basically uses our points of presence, or POPs, all over the world to expedite delivery into S3. You know, a few years ago, we were talking to a number of companies that were looking to make big shifts to the cloud, and they said, well, I need to move lots of data that just isn't viable for me to move it over the wire, given the connection we can assign to it. It's why we built Snowball. And so we launched Snowball a couple years ago, which is really, it's a 50 terabyte appliance that is encrypted, the data's encrypted three different ways, and you ingest the data from your data center into Snowball, it has a Kindle connected to it, it allows you to, you know, that makes sure that you send it to the right place, and you can also track the progress of your high-speed ingestion into our data centers. And when we first launched Snowball, we launched it at Reinvent a couple years ago, I could not believe that we were going to order as many Snowballs to start with as the team wanted to order. And in fact, I reproached the team and I said, this is way too much, why don't we first see if people actually use any of these Snowballs. And so the team thankfully didn't listen very carefully to that, and they really only pared back a little bit. And then it turned out that we, almost from the get-go, had ordered 10X too few. And so this has been something that people have used in a very broad, pervasive way all over the world. And last year, at the beginning of the year, as we were asking people what else they would like us to build in Snowball, customers told us a few things that were pretty interesting to us. First, one that wasn't that surprising was they said, well, it would be great if they were bigger, you know, if instead of 50 terabytes it was more data I could store on each device. Then they said, you know, one of the problems is when I load the data onto a Snowball and send it to you, I have to still keep my local copy on premises until it's ingested, cause I can't risk losing that data. So they said it would be great if you could find a way to provide clustering, so that I don't have to keep that copy on premises. That was pretty interesting. And then they said, you know, there's some of that data that I'd actually like to be loading synchronously to S3, and then, or some things back from S3 to that data that I may want to compare against. That was interesting, having that endpoint. And then they said, well, we'd really love it if there was some compute on those Snowballs so I can do analytics on some relatively short-term signals that I want to take action on right away. Those were really the pieces of feedback that informed Snowball Edge, which is the next version of Snowball that we launched, announced at Reinvent this past November. So it has, it's a hundred-terabyte appliance, still the same level of encryption, and it has clustering so that you don't have to keep that copy of the data local. It allows you to have an endpoint to S3 to synchronously load data back and forth, and then it has a compute inside of it. And so it allows customers to use these on premises. I'll give you a good example. GE is using these for their wind turbines. And they collect all kinds of data from those turbines, but there's certain short-term signals they want to do analytics on in as close to real time as they can, and take action on those. And so they use that compute to do the analytics and then when they fill up that Snowball Edge, they detach it and send it back to AWS to do broad-scale analytics in the cloud and then just start using an additional Snowball Edge to capture that short-term data and be able to do those analytics. So Snowball Edge is, you know, we just launched it a couple months ago, again, amazed at the type of response, how many customers are starting to deploy those all over the place. I think if you have exabytes of data that you need to move, it's not so easy. An exabyte of data, if you wanted to move from on premises to AWS, would require 10,000 Snowball Edges. Those customers don't want to really manage a fleet of 10,000 Snowball Edges if they don't have to. And so, we tried to figure out how to solve that problem, and it's why we launched Snowmobile back at Reinvent in November, which effectively, it's a hundred-petabyte container on a 45-foot trailer that we will take a truck and bring out to your facility. It comes with its own power and its own network fiber that we plug in to your data center. And if you want to move an exabyte of data over a 10 gigabit per second connection, it would take you 26 years. But using 10 Snowmobiles, it would take you six months. So really different level of scale. And you'd be surprised how many companies have exabytes of data at this point that they want to move to the cloud to get all those analytics and machine learning capabilities running on top of them. Then for streaming data, as we have more and more companies that are doing real-time analytics of streaming data, we have Kinesis, where we built something called the Kinesis Firehose that makes it really simple to stream all your real-time data. We have a storage gateway for companies that want to keep certain data hot, locally, and then asynchronously be loading the rest of their data to AWS to be able to use in different formats, should they need it as backup or should they choose to make a transition. So it's a very broad set of storage capabilities. And then of course, if you've moved a lot of data into the cloud or into anything, you realize that one of the hardest parts that people often leave to the end is ETL. And so we have announced an ETL service called Glue, which we announced at Reinvent, which is going to make it much easier to move your data, be able to find your data and map your data to different locations and do ETL, which of course is hugely important as you're moving large amounts. >> So we've talked a lot about moving things to the cloud, moving applications, moving data. But let's shift gears a little bit and talk about something not on the cloud, connected devices. >> Yeah. >> Where do they fit in and how do you think about edge? >> Well, you know, I've been working on AWS since the start of AWS, and we've been in the market for a little over 11 years at this point. And we have encountered, as I'm sure all of you have, many buzzwords. And of all the buzzwords that everybody has talked about, I think I can make a pretty strong argument that the one that has delivered fastest on its promise has been IOT and connected devices. Just amazing to me how much is happening at the edge today and how fast that's changing with device manufacturers. And I think that if you look out 10 years from now, when you talk about hybrid, I think most companies, majority on premise piece of hybrid will not be servers, it will be connected devices. There are going to be billions of devices all over the place, in your home, in your office, in factories, in oil fields, in agricultural fields, on ships, in cars, in planes, everywhere. You're going to have these assets that sit at the edge that companies are going to want to be able to collect data on, do analytics on, and then take action. And if you think about it, most of these devices, by their very nature, have relatively little CPU and have relatively little disk, which makes the cloud disproportionately important for them to supplement them. It's why you see most of the big, successful IOT applications today are using AWS to supplement them. Illumina has hooked up their genome sequencing to AWS to do analytics, or you can look at Major League Baseball Statcast is an IOT application built on top of AWS, or John Deer has over 200,000 telematically enabled tractors that are collecting real-time planting conditions and information that they're doing analytics on and sending it back to farmers so they can figure out where and how to optimally plant. Tata Motors manages their truck fleet this way. Phillips has their smart lighting project. I mean, there're innumerable amounts of these IOT applications built on top of AWS where the cloud is supplementing the device's capability. But when you think about these becoming more mission-critical applications for companies, there are going to be certain functions and certain conditions by which they're not going to want to connect back to the cloud. They're not going to want to take the time for that round trip. They're not going to have connectivity in some cases to be able to make a round trip to the cloud. And what they really want is customers really want the same capabilities they have on AWS, with AWS IOT, but on the devices themselves. And if you've ever tried to develop on these embedded devices, it's not for mere mortals. It's pretty delicate and it's pretty scary and there's a lot of archaic protocols associated with it, pretty tough to do it all and to do it without taking down your application. And so what we did was we built something called Greengrass, and we announced it at Reinvent. And Greengrass is really like a software module that you can effectively have inside your device. And it allows developers to write lambda functions, it's got lambda inside of it, and it allows customers to write lambda functions, some of which they want to run in the cloud, some of which they want to run on the device itself through Greengrass. So they have a common programming model to build those functions, to take the signals they see and take the actions they want to take against that, which is really going to help, I think, across all these IOT devices to be able to be much more flexible and allow the devices and the analytics and the actions you take to be much smarter, more intelligent. It's also why we built Snowball Edge. Snowball Edge, if you think about it, is really a purpose-built Greengrass device. We have Greengrass, it's inside of the Snowball Edge, and you know, the GE wind turbine example is a good example of that. And so it's to us, I think it's the future of what the on-premises piece of hybrid's going to be. I think there're going to be billions of devices all over the place and people are going to want to interact with them with a common programming model like they use in AWS and the cloud, and we're continuing to invest very significantly to make that easier and easier for companies. >> We've talked about several feature directions. We talked about AI, machine learning, the edge. What are some of the other areas of investment that this group should care about? >> Well there's a lot. (laughs) That's not a suit question, Ariel. But there's a lot. I think, I'll name a few. I think first of all, as I alluded to earlier, we are not close to being done expanding geographically. I think virtually every tier-one country will have an AWS region over time. I think many of the emerging countries will as well. I think the database space is an area that is radically changing. It's happening at a faster pace than I think people sometimes realize. And I think it's good news for all of you. I think the database space over the last few decades has been a lonely place for customers. I think that they have felt particularly locked into companies that are expensive and proprietary and have high degrees of lock-in and aren't so customer-friendly. And I think customers are sick of it. And we have a relational database service that we launched many years ago and has many flavors that you can run. You can run MySQL, you can run Postgres, you can run MariaDB, you can run SQLServer, you can run Oracle. And what a lot of our customers kept saying to us was, could you please figure out a way to have a database capability that has the performance characteristics of the commercial-grade databases but the customer-friendly and pricing model of the more open engines like the MySQL and Postgres and MariaDB. What you do on your own, we do a lot of it at Amazon, but it's hard, I mean, it takes a lot of work and a lot of tuning. And our customers really wanted us to solve that problem for them. And it's why we spent several years building Aurora, which is our own database engine that we built, but that's fully compatible with MySQL and with Postgres. It's at least as fault tolerant and durable and performant as the commercial-grade databases, but it's a tenth of the cost of those. And it's also nice because if it turns out that you use Aurora and you decide for whatever reason you don't want to use Aurora anymore, because it's fully compatible with MySQL and Postgres, you just dump it to the community versions of those, and off you are. So there's really hardly any transition there. So that is the fastest-growing service in the history of AWS. I'm amazed at how quickly it's grown. I think you may have heard earlier, we've had 23,000 database migrations just in the last year or so. There's a lot of pent-up demand to have database freedom. And we're here to help you have it. You know, I think on the analytic side, it's just never been easier and less expensive to collect, store, analyze, and share data than it is today. Part of that has to do with the economics of the cloud. But a lot of it has to do with the really broad analytics capability that we provide you. And it's a much broader capability than you'll find elsewhere. And you know, you can manage Hadoop and Spark and Presto and Hive and Pig and Yarn on top of AWS, or we have a managed elastic search service, and you know, of course we have a very high scale, very high performing data warehouse in Redshift, that just got even more performant with Spectrum, which now can query across all of your S3 data, and of course you have Athena, where you can query S3 directly. We have a service that allows you to do real-time analytics of streaming data in Kinesis. We have a business intelligence service in QuickSight. We have a number of machine learning capabilities I talked about earlier. It's a very broad array. And what we find is that it's a new day in analytics for companies. A lot of the data that companies felt like they had to throw away before, either because it was too expensive to hold or they didn't really have the tools accessible to them to get the learning from that data, it's a totally different day today. And so we have a pretty big investment in that space, I mentioned Glue earlier to do ETL on all that data. We have a lot more coming in that space. I think compute, super interesting, you know, I think you will find, I think we will find that companies will use full instances for many, many years and we have, you know, more than double the number of instances than you'll find elsewhere in every imaginable shape and size. But I would also say that the trend we see is that more and more companies are using smaller units of compute, and it's why you see containers becoming so popular. We have a really big business in ECS. And we will continue to build out the capability there. We have companies really running virtually every type of container and orchestration and management service on top of AWS at this point. And then of course, a couple years ago, we pioneered the event-driven serverless capability in compute that we call Lambda, which I'm just again, blown away by how many customers are using that for everything, in every way. So I think the basic unit of compute is continuing to get smaller. I think that's really good for customers. I think the ability to be serverless is a very exciting proposition that we're continuing to to fulfill that vision that we laid out a couple years ago. And then, probably, the last thing I'd point out right now is, I think it's really interesting to see how the basic procurement of software is changing. In significant part driven by what we've been doing with our Marketplace. If you think about it, in the old world, if you were a company that was buying software, you'd have to go find bunch of the companies that you should consider, you'd have to have a lot of conversations, you'd have to talk to a lot of salespeople. Those companies, by the way, have to have a big sales team, an expensive marketing budget to go find those companies and then go sell those companies and then both companies engage in this long tap-dance around doing an agreement and the legal terms and the legal teams and it's just, the process is very arduous. Then after you buy it, you have to figure out how you're going to actually package it, how you're deploy to infrastructure and get it done, and it's just, I think in general, both consumers of software and sellers of software really don't like the process that's existed over the last few decades. And then you look at AWS Marketplace, and we have 35 hundred product listings in there from 12 hundred technology providers. If you look at the number of hours, that software that's been running EC2 just in the last month alone, it's several hundred million hours, EC2 hours, of that software being run on top of our Marketplace. And it's just completely changing how software is bought and procured. I think that if you talk to a lot of the big sellers of software, like Splunk or Trend Micro, there's a whole number of them, they'll tell you it totally changes their ability to be able to sell. You know, one of the things that really helped AWS in the early days and still continues to help us, is that we have a self-service model where we don't actually have to have a lot of people talk to every customer to get started. I think if you're a seller of software, that's very appealing, to allow people to find your software and be able to buy it. And if you're a consumer, to be able to buy it quickly, again, without the hassle of all those conversations and the overhead associated with that, very appealing. And I think it's why the marketplace has just exploded and taken off like it has. It's also really good, by the way, for systems integrators, who are often packaging things on top of that software to their clients. This makes it much easier to build kind of smaller catalogs of software products for their customers. I think when you layer on top of that the capabilities that we've announced to make it easier for SASS providers to meter and to do billing and to do identity is just, it's a very different world. And so I think that also is very exciting, both for companies and customers as well as software providers. >> We certainly touched on a lot here. And we have a lot going on, and you know, while we have customers asking us a lot about how they can use all these new services and new features, we also tend to get a lot of questions from customers on how we innovate so quickly, and they can think about applying some of those lessons learned to their own businesses. >> So you're asking how we're able to innovate quickly? >> Mmm hmm. >> I think there's a few things that have helped us, and it's different for every company. But some of these might be helpful. I'll point to a few. I think the first thing is, I think we disproportionately index on hiring builders. And we think of builders as people who are inventors, people who look at different customer experiences really critically, are honest about what's flawed about them, and then seek to reinvent them. And then people who understand that launch is the starting line and not the finish line. There's very little that any of us ever built that's a home run right out of the gate. And so most things that succeed take a lot of listening to customers and a lot of experimentation and a lot of iterating before you get to an equation that really works. So the first thing is who we hire. I think the second thing is how we organize. And we have, at Amazon, long tried to organize into as small and separable and autonomous teams as we can, that have all the resources in those teams to own their own destiny. And so for instance, the technologists and the product managers are part of the same team. And a lot of that is because we don't want the finger pointing that goes back and forth between the teams, and if they're on the same team, they focus all their energy on owning it together and understanding what customers need from them, spending a disproportionate amount of time with customers, and then they get to own their own roadmaps. One of the reasons we don't publish a 12 to 18 month roadmap is we want those teams to have the freedom, in talking to customers and listening to what you tell us matters, to re-prioritize if there are certain things that we assumed mattered more than it turns out it does. So, you know I think that the way that we organize is the second piece. I think a third piece is all of our teams get to use the same AWS building blocks that all of you get to use, which allow you to move much more quickly. And I think one of the least told stories about Amazon over the last five years, in part because people have gotten interested in AWS, is people have missed how fast our consumer business at Amazon has iterated. Look at the amount of invention in Amazon's consumer business. And they'll tell you that a big piece of that is their ability to use the AWS building blocks like they do. I think a fourth thing is many big companies, as they get larger, what starts to happen is what people call the institutional no, which is that leaders walk into meetings on new ideas looking to find ways to say no, and not because they're ill intended but just because they get more conservative or they have a lot on their plate or things are really managed very centrally, so it's hard to imagine adding more to what you're already doing. At Amazon, it's really the opposite, and in part because of the way we're organized in such a decoupled, decentralized fashion, and in part because it's just part of our DNA. When the leaders walk into a meeting, they are looking for ways to say yes. And we don't say yes to everything, we have a lot of proposals. But we say yes to a lot more than I think virtually any other company on the planet. And when we're having conversations with builders who are proposing new ideas, we're in a mode where we're trying to problem-solve with them to get to yes, which I think is really different. And then I think the last thing is that we have mechanisms inside the company that allow us to make fast decisions. And if you want a little bit more detail, you should read our founder and CEO Jeff Bezos's shareholder letter, which just was released. He talks about the fast decision-making that happens inside the company. It's really true. We make fast decisions and we're willing to fail. And you know, we sometimes talk about how we're working on several of our next biggest failures, and we hope that most of the things we're doing aren't going to fail, but we know, if you're going to push the envelope and if you're going to experiment at the rate that we're trying to experiment, to find more pillars that allow us to do more for customers and allow us to be more relevant, you are going to fail sometimes. And you have to accept that, and you have to have a way of evaluating people that recognizes the inputs, meaning the things that they actually delivered as opposed to the outputs, cause on new ventures, you don't know what the outputs are going to be, you don't know consumers or customers are going to respond to the new thing you're trying to build. So you have to be able to reward employees on the inputs, you have to have a way for them to continue to progress and grow in their career even if they work on something didn't work. And you have to have a way of thinking about, when things don't work, how do I take the technology that I built as part of that, that really actually does work, but I didn't get it right in the form factor, and use it for other things. And I think that when you think about a culture like Amazon, that disproportionately hires builders, organizes into these separable, autonomous teams, and allows them to use building blocks to move fast, and has a leadership team that's looking to say yes to ideas and is willing to fail, you end up finding not only do you do more inventing but you get the people at every level of the organization spending their free cycles thinking about new ideas because it actually pays to think of new ideas cause you get a shot to try it. And so that has really helped us and I think most of our customers who have made significant shifts to AWS and the cloud would argue that that's one of the big transformational things they've seen in their companies as well. >> Okay. I want to go a little bit deeper on the subject of culture. What are some of the things that are most unique about the AWS culture that companies should know about when they're looking to partner with us? >> Well, I think if you're making a decision on a predominant infrastructure provider, it's really important that you decide that the culture of the company you're going to partner with is a fit for yours. And you know, it's a super important decision that you don't want to have to redo multiple times cause it's wasted effort. And I think that, look, I've been at Amazon for almost 20 years at this point, so I have obviously drank the Kool Aid. But there are a few things that I think are truly unique about Amazon's culture. I'll talk about three of them. The first is I think that we are unusually customer-oriented. And I think a lot of companies talk about being customer-oriented, but few actually are. I think most of the big technology companies truthfully are competitor-focused. They kind of look at what competitors are doing and then they try to one-up one another. You have one or two of them that I would say are product-focused, where they say, hey, it's great, you Mr. and Mrs. Customer have ideas on a product, but leave that to the experts, and you know, you'll like the products we're going to build. And those strategies can be good ones and successful ones, they're just not ours. We are driven by what customers tell us matters to them. We don't build technology for technology's sake, we don't become, you know, smitten by any one technology. We're trying to solve real problems for our customers. 90% of what we build is driven by what you tell us matters. And the other 10% is listening to you, and even if you can't articulate exactly what you want, trying to read between the lines and invent on your behalf. So that's the first thing. Second thing is that we are pioneers. We really like to invent, as I was talking about earlier. And I think most big technology companies at this point have either lost their will or their DNA to invent. Most of them acquire it or fast follow. And again, that can be a successful strategy. It's just not ours. I think in this day and age, where we're going through as big a shift as we are in the cloud, which is the biggest technology shift in our lifetime, as dynamic as it is, being able to partner with a company that has the most functionality, it's iterating the fastest, has the most customers, has the largest ecosystem of partners, has SIs and ISPs, that has had a vision for how all these pieces fit together from the start, instead of trying to patch them together in a following act, you have a big advantage. I think that the third thing is that we're unusually long-term oriented. And I think that you won't ever see us show up at your door the last day of a quarter, the last day of a year, trying to harass you into doing some kind of deal with us, not to be heard from again for a couple years when we either audit you or try to re-up you for a deal. That's just not the way that we will ever operate. We are trying to build a business, a set of relationships, that will outlast all of us here. And I think something that always ties it together well is this trusted advisor capability that we have inside our support function, which is, you know, we look at dozens of programmatic ways that our customers are using the platform and reach out to you if you're doing something we think's suboptimal. And one of the things we do is if you're not fully utilizing resources, or hardly, or not using them at all, we'll reach out and say, hey, you should stop paying for this. And over the last couple of years, we've sent out a couple million of these notifications that have led to actual annualized savings for customers of 350 million dollars. So I ask you, how many of your technology partners reach out to you and say stop spending money with us? To the tune of 350 million dollars lost revenue per year. Not too many. And I think when we first started doing it, people though it was gimmicky, but if you understand what I just talked about with regard to our culture, it makes perfect sense. We don't want to make money from customers unless you're getting value. We want to reinvent an experience that we think has been broken for the prior few decades. And then we're trying to build a relationship with you that outlasts all of us, and we think the best way to do that is to provide value and do right by customers over a long period of time. >> Okay, keeping going on the culture subject, what about some of the quirky things about Amazon's culture that people might find interesting or useful? >> Well there are a lot of quirky parts to our culture. And I think any, you know lots of companies who have strong culture will argue they have quirky pieces but I think there's a few I might point to. You know, I think the first would be the first several years I was with the company, I guess the first six years or so I was at the company, like most companies, all the information that was presented was via PowerPoint. And we would find that it was a very inefficient way to consume information. You know, you were often shaded by the charisma of the presenter, sometimes you would overweight what the presenters said based on whether they were a good presenter. And vice versa. You would very rarely have a deep conversation, cause you have no room on PowerPoint slides to have any depth. You would interrupt the presenter constantly with questions that they hadn't really thought through cause they didn't think they were going to have to present that level of depth. You constantly have the, you know, you'd ask the question, oh, I'm going to get to that in five slides, you want to do that now or you want to do that in five slides, you know, it was just maddening. And we would often find that most of the meetings required multiple meetings. And so we made a decision as a company to effectively ban PowerPoints as a communication vehicle inside the company. Really the only time I do PowerPoints is at Reinvent. And maybe that shows. And what we found is that it's a much more substantive and effective and time-efficient way to have conversations because there is no way to fake depth in a six-page narrative. So what we went to from PowerPoint was six-page narrative. You can write, have as much as you want in the appendix, but you have to assume nobody will read the appendices. Everything you have to communicate has to be done in six pages. You can't fake depth in a six-page narrative. And so what we do is we all get to the room, we spend 20 minutes or so reading the document so it's fresh in everybody's head. And then where we start the conversation is a radically different spot than when you're hearing a presentation one kind of shallow slide at a time. We all start the conversation with a fair bit of depth on the topic, and we can really hone in on the three or four issues that typically matter in each of these conversations. So we get to the heart of the matter and we can have one meeting on the topic instead of three or four. So that has been really, I mean it's unusual and it takes some time getting used to but it is a much more effective way to pay attention to the detail and have a substantive conversation. You know, I think a second thing, if you look at our working backwards process, we don't write a lot of code for any of our services until we write and refine and decide we have crisp press release and frequently asked question, or FAQ, for that product. And in the press release, what we're trying to do is make sure that we're building a product that has benefits that will really matter. How many times have we all gotten to the end of products and by the time we get there, we kind of think about what we're launching and think, this is not that interesting. Like, people are not going to find this that compelling. And it's because you just haven't thought through and argued and debated and made sure that you drew the line in the right spot on a set of benefits that will really matter to customers. So that's why we use the press release. The FAQ is to really have the arguments up front about how you're building the product. So what technology are you using? What's the architecture? What's the customer experience? What's the UI look like? What's the pricing dimensions? Are you going to charge for it or not? All of those decisions, what are people going to be most excited about, what are people going to be most disappointed by. All those conversations, if you have them up front, even if it takes you a few times to go through it, you can just let the teams build, and you don't have to check in with them except on the dates. And so we find that if we take the time up front we not only get the products right more often but the teams also deliver much more quickly and with much less churn. And then the third thing I'd say that's kind of quirky is it is an unusually truth-seeking culture at Amazon. I think we have a leadership principle that we say have backbone, disagree, and commit. And what it means is that we really expect people to speak up if they believe that we're headed down a path that's wrong for customers, no matter who is advancing it, what level in the company, everybody is empowered and expected to speak up. And then once we have the debate, then we all have to pull the same way, even if it's a different way than you were advocating. And I think, you always hear the old adage of where, two people look at a ceiling and one person says it's 14 feet and the other person says, it's 10 feet, and they say, okay let's compromise, it's 12 feet. And of course, it's not 12 feet, there is an answer. And not all things that we all consider has that black and white answer, but most things have an answer that really is more right if you actually assess it and debate it. And so we have an environment that really empowers people to challenge one another and I think it's part of why we end up getting to better answers, cause we have that level of openness and rigor. >> Okay, well Andy, we have time for one more question. >> Okay. >> So other than some of the things you've talked about, like customer focus, innovation, and long-term orientation, what is the single most important lesson that you've learned that is really relevant to this audience and this time we're living in? >> There's a lot. But I'll pick one. I would say I'll tell a short story that I think captures it. In the early days at Amazon, our sole business was what we called an owned inventory retail business, which meant we bought the inventory from distributors or publishers or manufacturers, stored it in our own fulfillment centers and shipped it to customers. And around the year 1999 or 2000, this third party seller model started becoming very popular. You know, these were companies like Half.com and eBay and folks like that. And we had a really animated debate inside the company about whether we should allow third party sellers to sell on the Amazon site. And the concerns internally were, first of all, we just had this fundamental belief that other sellers weren't going to care as much about the customer experience as we did cause it was such a central part of everything we did DNA-wise. And then also we had this entire business and all this machinery that was built around owned inventory business, with all these relationships with publishers and distributors and manufacturers, who we didn't think would necessarily like third party sellers selling right alongside us having bought their products. And so we really debated this, and we ultimately decided that we were going to allow third party sellers to sell in our marketplace. And we made that decision in part because it was better for customers, it allowed them to have lower prices, so more price variety and better selection. But also in significant part because we realized you can't fight gravity. If something is going to happen, whether you want it to happen or not, it is going to happen. And you are much better off cannibalizing yourself or being ahead of whatever direction the world is headed than you are at howling at the wind or wishing it away or trying to put up blockers and find a way to delay moving to the model that is really most successful and has the most amount of benefits for the customers in question. And that turned out to be a really important lesson for Amazon as a company and for me, personally, as well. You know, in the early days of doing Marketplace, we had all kinds of folks, even after we made the decision, that despite the have backbone, disagree and commit weren't really sure that they believed that it was going to be a successful decision. And it took several months, but thankfully we really were vigilant about it, and today in roughly half of the units we sell in our retail business are third party seller units. Been really good for our customers. And really good for our business as well. And I think the same thing is really applicable to the space we're talking about today, to the cloud, as you think about this gigantic shift that's going on right now, moving to the cloud, which is, you know, I think in the early days of the cloud, the first, I'll call it six, seven, eight years, I think collectively we consumed so much energy with all these arguments about are people going to move to the cloud, what are they going to move to the cloud, will they move mission-critical applications to the cloud, will the enterprise adopt it, will public sector adopt it, what about private cloud, you know, we just consumed a huge amount of energy and it was, you can see both in the results in what's happening in businesses like ours, it was a form of fighting gravity. And today we don't really have if conversations anymore with our customers. They're all when and how and what order conversations. And I would say that this going to be a much better world for all of us, because we will be able to build in a much more cost effective fashion, we will be able to build much more quickly, we'll be able to take our scarce resource of engineers and not spend their resource on the undifferentiated heavy lifting of infrastructure and instead on what truly differentiates your business. And you'll have a global presence, so that you have lower latency and a better end user customer experience being deployed with your applications and infrastructure all over the world. And you'll be able to meet the data sovereignty requirements of various locales. So I think it's a great world that we're entering right now, I think we're at a time where there's a lot less confusion about where the world is headed, and I think it's an unprecedented opportunity for you to reinvent your businesses, reinvent your applications, and build capabilities for your customers and for your business that weren't easily possible before. And I hope you take advantage of it, and we'll be right here every step of the way to help you. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. (applause) >> Thank you, Andy. And thank you, everyone. I appreciate your time today. >> Thank you. (applause) (upbeat music)

>> Voiceover: Live from San Francisco, it's the CUBE covering AWS Summit 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. (electronic music) >> Welcome back to the CUBE. We have spent a great day in San Francisco at the AWS Summit. My co-host, George Gilbert, and I are very excited next to be talking to Eric Pan, the Senior Director of Alliances Marketing at Equinix. And Eric and I know each other when I worked at NetUP and you worked at VMware, so it's great to see you again. >> Back in the day. >> Back in the day. >> Eric: Yeah. It's great to be here, Lisa. >> It's great to have you on the CUBE. >> Eric: Thank you. >> So tell us about Equinix and what you're doing to help customers get to the cloud. >> Yes, love to. So Equinix was founded in 199-- ... 1998. We really have established what we call an interconnection data center platform. So Platform Equinix is a company that helps customers to interconnect with their trading partners, with networks, and customers. >> Excellent. And so one of the things that I actually just read yesterday, a press release, that Equinix just became part of the AWS partner network as an advanced technology partner. >> Eric: Right. >> Big news. >> Big news. So we've had a relationship with AWS for many years. We've established 14 points of presence around the world for what AWS calls their Direct Connect, which is, it's a great way for customers to be able to manage their hybrid clouds or mainline, if you will, directly into AWS, privately and bypassing the Internet entirely. So for us to be able to gain this certification, this badge if you will, it's a proud day at Equinix. >> Well, congratulations. Fantastic. I'm sure a lot of hard work has gone into that. >> Eric: Yes. >> So help us, talk though from a customer perspective, where they want to say, "I don't really want to apply any more of my real estate, and I, you know, I don't want to buy a lot more gear, but I have some stuff with legacy apps. And I'm actually starting to build out more in Amazon." What's that scenario? How do you help with that scenario? >> Right, so this is a very typical scenario we see every day with our customers. If I may just color this with what we call interconnection, Interconnection is, it is a set of ideas and concepts that we've established through many years of observing how our customers have worked with us and have built their infrastructure, both on-premises and into the cloud. So what you're referring to is really a hybrid cloud situation or scenario. And where a customer ideally says, "I would like to put the majority of my workloads and applications and maybe even data up in the cloud." But we know that's not practical. There's a lot of different reasons. Some of the reasons are data sovereignty or compliance or regulatory concerns. We see a lot of customers that have very specific hardware devices. For hardware maybe, certification or validation for certain things. So those sort of customers will come to Equinix. They'll place their own equipment within our data center. They'll manage that or they'll have a managed service provider come and help them with that. But they'll also be able to directly connect up into AWS. So that's one of the beauties of working with Equinix from our customers' perspective, is they get the best of both worlds. So they get to move their equipment out of their own data center, but they still have the look-and-feel or the management capability of on-premises. And then they also get to enjoy all the benefits of working in the cloud with AWS. >> So you've grown since early 2016, as we were chatting about before, Equinix has grown customer connections to AWS >> Eric: Yes, 250. >> 250% That's massive. >> Eric: Over 250%, yes. >> Over 250. Tell me just to get a little bit, kind of following on what you were just saying, what type of business would choose that route versus going, either keeping some on-prem then going right right to AWS or a cloud? Give us an understanding of really who this target market is. >> Sure, so really any and all enterprises would need to have this capability. The concept here with Direct Connect, it's really AWS' concept and where they say, "If you have certain applications that may be really heavy and are very compute-intensive or very data-intensive, you'll want to run those applications in AWS, and you want to make sure that you have good user experience around that." So Direct Connect privately connects from the end-user to AWS without zig-zagging through the Internet. You get predictability and performance. And what's really the most important thing is great user experience. >> And are you seeing the rise of enterprise as being more and more comfortable with migrating business-critical workloads? >> Oh absolutely yes. Yes, I went to Andy Jassy's fireside chat earlier today >> Lisa: Yeah, it was fantastic wasn't it? >> And he had a whole list of customers that are running business-critical applications. So we see a lot of customers that do that. And we also see, on the flip-side, a lot of customers, like what we were speaking about earlier in the hybrid cloud sense, that are running business-critical applications in AWS but they need to have their data local. So marked by regulatory or compliance issues in health care or in retail environments where PCI compliance demands that you have private data. And then in countries like, I'm just going to give you two examples, Canada and Germany, they have very stringent data sovereignty rules where you must have data in-country from operating on that data. So a lot of customers will use Direct Connect to connect up into AWS, but they'll also be able to maintain their data privacy if they need to. >> Just a drill down on that scenario, you know, there's debate as to, is there one cloud, one ring to rule them all? Or where is the sweet spots of different clouds? Would Equinix be for a customer who has a mission-critical application that's been running for years, that's got an Oracle database? They want to add some low-latency analytics, machine learning where they're scoring or predicting. So they want to put something close to where it's running. So they take the equipment from their data center, put it in Equinix, add around that application the low-latency stuff. >> Eric: Yes. >> And then maybe the digital experience part is in Amazon. >> Right. Yes. So we see many customers doing that very thing. And we also have a very close relationship with NetApp as a storage provider. And NetApp has an offering called NPS, or NetApp Private Storage. So symbiotically, we work together to provide what NetApp has as a ... Data Fabric, which they call. And in that scenario, the whole entire concept is based on running heavy applications or business applications in the cloud but having your data privately and distributed locally or close to where people live, work, and play. >> George: Okay. >> So one of the topics, actually, in, you mentioned attending Andy Jassy's fireside chat. I think we all did. It was fantastic. >> And one of the things that was really interesting was that he was talking about of all of the buzzwords, and as marketers, you know, we both know this, that IOT is the buzzword that he has seen really come to fruition. >> Eric: Come to life, right. >> The fastest. >> That was a fascinating part of his discussion. So we, Equinix, are at the center of, if you will, some of the things that are going on in the IOT world. So IOT, if you can imagine the Internet, a thing says that there's lots of different little devices or big devices like cars or huge devices like hydroelectric dams or jet engines. Those are all producing vast amounts of data that have to go somewhere. And the companies that, like Andy used GE for example in the wind turbines, the companies that need to look at that data, that are having to store that data or do something with it, they typically say, "Well, if we are based in one geographical city, and all this data is coming in from all over the world or all over some region, you need to have natural ingestion points for that data. So we, Equinix, are at the center of where data comes in. And then the next piece is, well, now that we have all this data or now that the organization has all this data in one place or maybe distributed in a few places, how do they then go operate on that? So the scenarios that we spoke about earlier, in where you have an application running up in AWS, to look at that data or, in some cases, there may be, like Andy talked about the Snowball and the Edge computing, Edge computing is something that Equinix very much puts forward as one of the concepts in our interconnection ideas. So that, it's kind of loud there. >> Sorry for the overhead announcement (laughs) >> So the idea around having all of these big data ingestion points, having Edge compute or cloud compute, Equinix becomes a really logical place for customers to be able to do all of that. And then, of course, there's all the data visualization. There's all the data analytics that have to occur with the data scientists. So maybe some of those analytics are running in AWS, but maybe some of the visualization pieces are running in other companies. I won't name the companies, but we all know who the data visualization companies are. >> Lisa: (laughs) >> So your points of presence are about 150 if ... >> Yes, we have 150 data centers in 40 of the biggest business-rich metros around the world. >> Now, do you see a need for a mini-data center or a point of presence that's more like when AOL had those dial-in >> Eric: (laughs) >> I mean, literally, it could've been one box that received phone calls and then ran them out over the network. And the reason I ask is when we have billions of devices, you might want points of presence in the thousands or hundreds of thousands even. >> Eric: Right. That is a very interesting question, and I kind of liken this to something that maybe is an easier idea to understand. A lot of us live in big cities. A lot of us work or ... A lot of us, yes, work at a big company. Some of us don't. A lot of us conduct our banking with big banks or small banks. So if you can imagine the world of maybe retail or banking where there's lots of little branch offices, those could be, we could think of those as maybe the mini-data center idea that you've brought up earlier. So in what Equinix calls interconnection, we have a concept that we call Edge Hub or Communications Hub, which is an idea in where we want to shorten the distance between where users live, work, and play and where the application is running. And so by doing that and simplifying the network topology, in the case that we're talking about, IOT, yes. You would definitely want to do that. So think of a branch office connecting up to a hub, if you will, a communications hub, as a natural ingestion point to bring in that data. >> So last question, Eric, as we wrap up here. We talked about the tremendous growth that Equinix has had just in the last not even 18 months alone and also the great news yesterday that you're very proud of and should be, as becoming an advanced technology partner of Amazon. So last word to you, what's next as an advanced technology partner of AWS? >> Wow. Well, if I can just maybe borrow some of Andy Jassy's words, we're not done here yet. There's no end in sight where Equinix goes. We continue to grow. We have over a third of the Fortune 500 customers that we've managed to attract and that are happy customers. We want to continue down that road and have 100% of the Fortune 500 customers. And we want to make all of our customers happy in working in this new era that we call cloud computing. >> Fantastic. Well, I think we can feel the momentum coming from you and very much Matt Schpive, the guys and the gals from AWS that were on stage today. So, Eric Pan, it's so great to see you after a few years of back in the day. >> Great to see you. Thanks for having me here. >> Absolutely, and for Eric Pan and my co-host George Gilbert, I'm Lisa Martin. You've been watching the CUBE live from the Amazon Web Services Summit in San Francisco. We will be right back. (futuristic electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose, California, it's the CUBE, covering Big Data Silicon Valley 2017. (upbeat synthesizer music) >> Live with the CUBE coverage of Big Data Silicon Valley or Big Data SV, #BigDataSV in conjunction with Strata + Hadoop. I'm John Furrier with the CUBE and my co-host George Gilbert, analyst at Wikibon. I'm excited to have our next guest, Yaron Haviv, who's the founder and CTO of iguazio, just wrote a post up on SiliconANGLE, check it out. Welcome to the CUBE. >> Thanks, John. >> Great to see you. You're in a guest blog this week on SiliconANGLE, and always great on Twitter, cause Dave Alante always liked to bring you into the contentious conversations. >> Yaron: I like the controversial ones, yes. (laughter) >> And you add a lot of good color on that. So let's just get right into it. So your company's doing some really innovative things. We were just talking before we came on camera here, about some of the amazing performance improvements you guys have on many different levels. But first take a step back, and let's talk about what this continuous analytics platform is, because it's unique, it's different, and it's got impact. Take a minute to explain. >> Sure, so first a few words on iguazio. We're developing a data platform which is unified, so basically it can ingest data through many different APIs, and it's more like a cloud service. It is for on-prem and edge locations and co-location, but it's managed more like a cloud platform so very similar experience to Amazon. >> John: It's software? >> It's software. We do integrate a lot with hardware in order to achieve our performance, which is really about 10 to 100 times faster than what exists today. We've talked to a lot of customers and what we really want to focus with customers in solving business problems, Because I think a lot of the Hadoop camp started with more solving IT problems. So IT is going kicking tires, and eventually failing based on your statistics and Gardner statistics. So what we really wanted to solve is big business problems. We figured out that this notion of pipeline architecture, where you ingest data, and then curate it, and fix it, et cetera, which was very good for the early days of Hadoop, if you think about how Hadoop started, was page ranking from Google. There was no time sensitivity. You could take days to calculate it and recalibrate your search engine. Based on new research, everyone is now looking for real time insights. So there is sensory data from (mumbles), there's stock data from exchanges, there is fraud data from banks, and you need to act very quickly. So this notion of and I can give you examples from customers, this notion of taking data, creating Parquet file and log files, and storing them in S3 and then taking Redshift and analyzing them, and then maybe a few hours later having an insight, this is not going to work. And what you need to fix is, you have to put some structure into the data. Because if you need to update a single record, you cannot just create a huge file of 10 gigabyte and then analyze it. So what we did is, basically, a mechanism where you ingest data. As you ingest the data, you can run multiple different processes on the same thing. And you can also serve the data immediately, okay? And two examples that we demonstrate here in the show, one is video surveillance, very nice movie-style example, that you, basically, ingest pictures for S3 API, for object API, you analyze the picture to detect faces, to detect scenery, to extract geolocation from pictures and all that, all those through different processes. TensorFlow doing one, serverless functions that we have, do other simpler tasks. And in the same time, you can have dashboards that just show everything. And you can have Spark, that basically does queries of where was this guys last seen? Or who was he with, you know, or think about the Boston Bomber example. You could just do it in real time. Because you don't need this notion of pipeline. And this solves very hard business problems for some of the customers we work with. >> So that's the key innovation, there's no pipe lining. And what's the secret sauce? >> So first, our system does about a couple of million of transactions per second. And we are a multi-modal database. So, basically, you can ingest data as a stream, exactly the same data could be read by Spark as a table. So you could, basically, issue a query on the same data. Give me everything that has a certain pattern or something, and could also be served immediately through RESTful APIs to a dashboard running AngularJS or something like that. So that's the secret sauce, is by having this integration, and this unique data model, it allows you all those things to work together. There are other aspects, like we have transactional semantics. One of the challenges is how do you make sure that a bunch of processes don't collide when they update the same data. So first you need a very low ground alert. 'cause each one may update to different field. Like this example that I gave with GeoData, the serverless function that does the GeoData extraction only updates the GeoData fields within the records. And maybe TensorFlow updates information about the image in a different location in the record or, potentially, a different record. So you have to have that, along with transaction safety, along with security. We have very tight security at the field level, identity level. So that's re-thinking the entire architecture. And I think what many of the companies you'll see at the show, they'll say, okay, Hadoop is given, let's build some sort of convenience tools around it, let's do some scripting, let's do automation. But serve the underlying thing, I won't use dirty words, but is not well-equipped to the new challenges of real time. We basically restructured everything, we took the notions of cloud-native architectures, we took the notions of Flash and latest Flash technologies, a lot of parallelism on CPUs. We didn't take anything for granted on the underlying architecture. >> So when you found the company, take a personal story here. What was the itch you were scratching, why did you get into this? Obviously, you have a huge tech advantage, which is, will double-down with the research piece and George will have some questions. What got you going with the company? You got a unique approach, people would love to do away with the pipeline, that sounds great. And the performance, you said about 100x. So how did you get here? (laughs) Tell the story. >> So if you know my background, I ran all the data center activities in Mellanox, and you know Mellanox, I know Kevin was here. And my role was to take Mellanox technology, which is 100 gig networking and silicon, and fit it into the different applications. So I worked with SAP HANA, I worked with Teradata, I worked on Oracle Exadata, I work with all the cloud service providers on building their own object storage and NoSQL and other solutions. I also owned all the open source activities around Hadoop and Saf and all those projects, and my role was to fix many of those. If a customer says I don't need 100 gig, it's too fast for me, how do I? And my role was to convince him that yes, I can open up all the bottleneck all the way up to your stack so you can leverage those new technologies. And for that we basically sowed inefficiencies in those stacks. >> So you had a good purview of the marketplace. >> Yaron: Yes. >> You had open source on one hand, and then all the-- >> All the storage players, >> vendors, network. >> all the database players and all the cloud service providers were my customers. So you're a very unique point where you see the trajectory of cloud. Doing things totally different, and sometimes I see the trajectory of enterprise storage, SAN, NAS, you know, all Flash, all that, legacy technologies where cloud providers are all about object, key value, NoSQL. And you're trying to convince those guys that maybe they were going the wrong way. But it's pretty hard. >> Are they going the wrong way? >> I think they are going the wrong way. Everyone, for example, is running to do NVMe over Fabric now that's the new fashion. Okay, I did the first implementation of NVMe over Fabric, in my team at Mellanox. And I really loved it, at that time, but databases cannot run on top of storage area networks. Because there are serialization problems. Okay, if you use a storage area network, that mean that every node in the cluster have to go and serialize an operation against the shared media. And that's not how Google and Amazon works. >> There's a lot more databases out there too, and a lot more data sources. You've got the Edge. >> Yeah, but all the new databases, all the modern databases, they basically shared the data across the different nodes so there are no serialization problems. So that's why Oracle doesn't scale, or scale to 10 nodes at best, with a lot of RDMA as a back plane, to allow that. And that's why Amazon can scale to a thousand nodes, or Google-- >> That's the horizontally-scalable piece that's happening. >> Yeah, because, basically, the distribution has to move into the higher layers of the data, and not the lower layers of the data. And that's really the trajectory where the traditional legacy storage and system vendors are going, and we sort of followed the way the cloud guys went, just with our knowledge of the infrastructure, we sort of did it better than what the cloud guys did. 'Cause the cloud guys focused more on the higher levels of the implementation, the algorithms, the Paxos, and all that. Their implementation is not that efficient. And we did both sides extremely efficient. >> How about the Edge? 'Cause Edge is now part of cloud, and you got cloud has got the compute, all the benefits, you were saying, and still they have their own consumption opportunities and challenges that everyone else does. But Edge is now exploding. The combination of those things coming together, at the intersection of that is deep learning, machine learning, which is powering the AI hype. So how is the Edge factoring into your plan and overall architectures for the cloud? >> Yeah, so I wrote a bunch of posts that are not published yet about the Edge, But my analysis along with your analysis and Pierre Levin's analysis, is that cloud have to start distribute more. Because if you're looking at the trends. Five gig, 5G Wi-Fi in wireless networking is going to be gigabit traffic. Gigabit to the homes, they're going to buy Google, 70 bucks a month. It's going to push a lot more bend with the Edge. On the same time, a cloud provider, is in order to lower costs and deal with energy problems they're going to rural areas. The traditional way we solve cloud problems was to put CDNs, so every time you download a picture or video, you got to a CDN. When you go to Netflix, you don't really go to Amazon, you got to a Netflix pop, one of 250 locations. The new work loads are different because they're no longer pictures that need to be cashed. First, there are a lot of data going up. Sensory data, upload files, et cetera. Data is becoming a lot more structured. Censored data is structured. All this car information will be structured. And you want to (mumbles) digest or summarize the data. So you need technologies like machine learning, NNI and all those things. You need something which is like CDNs. Just mini version of cloud that sits somewhere in between the Edge and the cloud. And this is our approach. And now because we can string grab the mini cloud, the mini Amazon in a way more dense approach, then this is a play that we're going to take. We have a very good partnership with Equinox. Which has 170 something locations with very good relations. >> So you're, essentially, going to disrupt the CDN. It's something that I've been writing about and tweeting about. CDNs were based on the old Yahoo days. Cashing images, you mentioned, give me 1999 back, please. That's old school, today's standards. So it's a whole new architecture because of how things are stored. >> You have to be a lot more distributive. >> What is the architecture? >> In our innovation, we have two layers of innovation. One is on the lower layers of, we, actually, have three main innovations. One is on the lower layers of what we discussed. The other one is the security layer, where we classify everything. Layer seven at 100 gig graphic rates. And the third one is all this notion of distributed system. We can, actually, run multiple systems in multiple locations and manage them as one logical entity through high level semantics, high level policies. >> Okay, so when we take the CUBE global, we're going to have you guys on every pop. This is a legit question. >> No it's going to take time for us. We're not going to do everything in one day and we're starting with the local problems. >> Yeah but this is digital transmissions. Stay with me for a second. Stay with this scenario. So video like Netflix is, pretty much, one dimension, it's video. They use CDNs now but when you start thinking in different content types. So, I'm going to have a video with, maybe, just CGI overlayed or social graph data coming in from tweets at the same time with Instagram pictures. I might be accessing multiple data everywhere to watch a movie or something. That would require beyond a CDN thinking. >> And you have to run continuous analytics because it can not afford batch. It can not afford a pipeline. Because you ingest picture data, you may need to add some subtext with the data and feed it, directly, to the consumer. So you have to move to those two elements of moving more stuff into the Edge and running into continuous analytics versus a batch on pipeline. >> So you think, based on that scenario I just said, that there's going to be an opportunity for somebody to take over the media landscape for sure? >> Yeah, I think if you're also looking at the statistics. I seen a nice article. I told George about it. That analyzing the Intel cheap distribution. What you see is that there is a 30% growth on Intel's cheap Intel Cloud which is faster than what most analysts anticipate in terms of cloud growth. That means, actually, that cloud is going to cannibalize Enterprise faster than what most think. Enterprise is shrinking about 7%. There is another place which is growing. It's Telcos. It's not growing like cloud but part of it is because of this move towards the Edge and the move of Telcos buying white boxes. >> And 5G and access over the top too. >> Yeah but that's server chips. >> Okay. >> There's going to be more and more computation in the different Telco locations. >> John: Oh you're talking about computer, okay. >> This is an opportunity that we can capitalize on if we run fast enough. >> It sounds as though because you've implemented these industry standard APIs that come from the, largely, the open source ecosystem, that you can propagate those to areas on the network that the vendors, who are behind those APIs can't, necessarily, do. Into the Telcos, towards the Edge. And, I assume, part of that is cause of the density and the simplicity. So, essentially, your footprint's smaller in terms of hardware and the operational simplicity is greater. Is that a fair assessment? >> Yes and also, we support a lot of Amazon compatible APIs which are RESTful, typically, HTTP based. Very convenient to work with in a cloud environment. Another thing is, because we're taking all the state on ourself, the different forms of states whether it's a message queue or a table or an object, et cetera, that makes the computation layer very simple. So one of the things that we are, also, demonstrating is the integration we have with Kubernetes that, basically, now simplifies Kubernetes. Cause you don't have to build all those different data services for cloud native infrastructure. You just run Kubernetes. We're the volume driver, we're the database, we're the message queues, we're everything underneath Kubernetes and then, you just run Spark or TensorFlow or a serverless function as a Kubernetes micro service. That allows you now, elastically, to increase the number of Spark jobs that you need or, maybe, you have another tenant. You just spun a Spark job. YARN has some of those attributes but YARN is very limited, very confined to the Hadoop Ecosystem. TensorFlow is not a Hadoop player and a bunch of those new tools are not in Hadoop players and everyone is now adopting a new way of doing streaming and they just call it serverless. serverless and streaming are very similar technologies. The advantage of serverless is all this pre-packaging and all this automation of the CICD. The continuous integration, the continuous development. So we're thinking, in order to simplify the developer in an operation aspects, we're trying to integrate more and more with cloud native approach around CICD and integration with Kubernetes and cloud native technologies. >> Would it be fair to say that from a developer or admin point of view, you're pushing out from the cloud towards the Edge faster than if the existing implementations say, the Apache Ecosystem or the AWS Ecosystem where AWS has something on the edge. I forgot whether it's Snowball or Green Grass or whatever. Where they at least get the lambda function. >> They're field by the way and it's interesting to see. One of the things they allowed lambda functions in their CDS which is going the direction I mentioned just for a minimal functionality. Another thing is they have those boxes where they have a single VM and they can run lambda function as well. But I think their ability to run computation is very limited and also, their focus is on shipping the boxes through mail and we want it to be always connected. >> Our final question for you, just to get your thoughts. Great save up, by the way. This is very informative. Maybe be should do a follow up on Skype in our studio for Silocon Friday show. Google Next was interesting. They're serious about the Enterprise but you can see that they're not yet there. What is the Enterprise readiness from your perspective? Cause Google has the tech and they try to flaunt the tech. We're great, we're Google, look at us, therefore, you should buy us. It's not that easy in the Enterprise. How would you size up the different players? Because they're all not like Amazon although Amazon is winning. You got Amazon, Azure and Google. Your thoughts on the cloud players. >> The way we attack Enterprise, we don't attack it from an Enterprise perspective or IT perspective, we take it from a business use case perspective. Especially, because we're small and we have to run fast. You need to identify a real critical business problem. We're working with stock exchanges and they have a lot of issues around monitoring the daily trade activities in real time. If you compare what we do with them on this continuous analytics notion to how they work with Excel's and Hadoops, it's totally different and now, they could do things which are way different. I think that one of the things that Hadook's customer, if Google wants to succeed against Amazon, they have to find the way of how to approach those business owners and say here's a problem Mr. Customer, here's a business challenge, here's what I'm going to solve. If they're just going to say, you know what? My VM's are cheaper than Amazon, it's not going to be a-- >> Also, they're doing the whole, they're calling lift and shift which is code word for rip and replace in the Enterprise. So that's, essentially, I guess, a good opportunity if you can get people to do that but not everyone's ripping and replacing and lifting and shifting. >> But a lot of Google advantages around areas of AI and things like that. So they should try and leverage, if you think about Amazon approach to AI, this fund the university to build a project and then set it's hours where Google created TensorFlow and created a lot of other IPs and Dataflow and all those solutions and consumered it to the community. I really love Google's approach of contributing Kubernetes, to contributing TensorFlow. And this way, they're planting the seeds so the new generation this is going to work with Kubernetes and TensorFlow who are going to say, "You know what?" "Why would I mess with this thing on (mumbles) just go and. >> Regular cloud, do multi-cloud. >> Right to the cloud. But I think a lot of criticism about Google is that they're too research oriented. They don't know how to monetize and approach the-- >> Enterprise is just a whole different drum beat and I think that's the only thing on my complaint with them, they got to get that knowledge and/or buy companies. Have a quick final point on Spanner or any analysis of Spanner that went from paper, pretty quickly, from paper to product. >> So before we started iguazio, I started Spanner quite a bit. All the publication was there and all the other things like Spanner. Spanner has the underlying layer called Colossus. And our data layer is very similar to how Colossus works. So we're very familiar. We took a lot of concepts from Spanner on our platform. >> And you like Spanner, it's legit? >> Yes, again. >> Cause you copied it. (laughs) >> Yaron: We haven't copied-- >> You borrowed some best practices. >> I think I cited about 300 research papers before we did the architecture. But we, basically, took the best of each one of them. Cause there's still a lot of issues. Most of those technologies, by the way, are designed for mechanical disks and we can talk about it in a different-- >> And you have Flash. Alright, Yaron, we have gone over here. Great segment. We're here, live in Silicon Valley, breakin it down, getting under the hood. Looking a 10X, 100X performance advantages. Keep an eye on iguazio, they're looking like they got some great products. Check them out. This is the CUBE. I'm John Furrier with George Gilbert. We'll be back with more after this short break. (upbeat synthesizer music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, Nevada. It's the CUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2016. Brought to you by AWS and its ecosystem partners. (light techno music) Now, here's your host. >> And we're back, happy to welcome back to the program, regular guest on our program, David Richards, who is the founder and CEO of WANdisco. David, anything interesting happen since last time, you know, we've talked to you? >> David: Well I kind of got, you guys are a bad omen for me. Kind of left the CUBE in New York, got off a plane, got fired, and then four days later got reinstated. Apart from that, virtually nothing's happened actually. >> Hey, you know it's good coverage in The Financial Times, and then lots of press and everything, so lots more people know about WANdisco now, right? >> David: That's right, and I don't have Tourette's, I promise. (laughs) >> Alright, David, AWS re:Invent, I mean, pretty impressive show, you know we see you in a lot of shows, many of them interesting, lots of smart people but I mean, wow this is pretty impressive. They got up on stage lots of things that I'm sure interest you, give us your take of the show so far. >> It's fascinating, I mean, this sort of must have been, I wasn't there when, you know, Steve Jobs was launching the first Mac and so on, but this kind of feels, more than just a small movement. This is a large shift in enterprise, moving from On-premises to Cloud, I think it's unquestionable that's happening. I mean, I'm sure you've covered it this week on The Cube. I've not seen it, but 32,000 people are here. Virtually every single vendor that you could ever think of is exhibiting in this exhibit hall. You can barely move about the people. Our booth traffic has just been phenomenal this week, and it really feels like this is a seismic shift in the marketplace. I know we've been saying that for a while, but it really does feel that way. >> Why do you think now, is it just, we just got here, and it's the overnight success that's been ten years in the making, or was there an event or something that really, kind of, tipped it over to where we are, because clearly, it's very different than last year. >> It, sort of, Cloud V1, and you guys have been covering this for a long time, was really companies that were born in the Cloud, it was the Airbnbs, it was the Tinders, it was the Facebooks and so on. Those companies were actually made, born in the Cloud. What's now happening, clearly, is enterprise is moving to the Cloud, and Cloud 2.0 really is about a different set of requirements, a different set of customers. There are customers with massive petabyte-scale data sets that they really can't take advantage of, they can't really scale out, it's too complex for them to build many of the applications they need to build, they now have to move to Cloud, and, you know, 32,000 people are not here just for the sake of it, they're here because they have to be here, because they're moving, obviously, to Cloud, and AWS have such a massive lead, I think, in the Cloud at the moment and Enterprise Cloud, and that's probably why so many people are here. >> David, one of the interesting things to look at at this show is, Amazon has some opinions about where data lives, how it moves, where you process it, you know, all of those kind of things. You guys are kind of opinionated on those kind of things too so, you know, give us your view on those kind of, those guys. I mean, I made a comment on Twitter, it was like, "Hey, what do we call a data lake when it's in the Cloud now?" >> Jeff: Well look, that's what happens to Clouds, they-- >> One of the big reveals in Andy Jassy's talk this morning was a truck coming across the front of the stage, and I've had so many emails saying, is this real, is this a joke, are we now really moving data in a semi from On-premises into the Cloud? And, it's kind of interesting, I think it's a little bit of a gimmick to be honest with you, I think Amazon do lots of great things, there were lots of wonderful announcements today, like opening up Alexa and allowing, you know, and some of the things they're doing with serverless computers, just phenomenal, but I think a truck to move data from On-premises to Cloud, kind of feels like we're back in the 1970s to me, whereas I was talking to a, the CIO of an automotive company a couple of weeks ago. They have a problem where, you know, to move data causes an outage in their organization today of about 30 hours. Their data growth is going to be so vast, the velocity is going to be so great in the next 12 months, that if they use the existing technology today, that they have today, would take them in the region of a month to move that data. So, trucks are great for cold, archival data, well they might be great for cold, archival data, I'm sure you could figure out a better way, like the internet to move it, but for our active transactional data, data that changes and moves, that's critical to the organization, you simply can't put it on the back of a truck and basically mail it to Amazon with a Snowball, that really doesn't work, and I think the market really needs to be educated a little bit about what's possible. >> Well, and I don't know that Amazon would necessarily disagree with you. I mean, if you look at the Snowball family, they had the Snowball Edge out there, which was realization, hey I might want compute, and even, we're going to give you that new green grass Lambda, serverless type stuff, so that you can do processing where there's no network, or I can't do anything, but, I guess, we know from a physics standpoint, I understand, you know, the internet is great, but, you know, if I want to move, you know, 100 petabytes or more of data, you know, even if I'm a Telco, that's a ton of data that I need to move. So, tell me where there's this connect. >> So, the way that WANdisco's technology works, is we continually replicate data, so where every other form of data replication is time based, it requires the concept of a clock, like, even Google, who've got Google Spanner, which is kind of active/active replication, but relies on a satellite in the sky, on atomic clocks, GPS clocks on every single server. We don't have any of that reliance, we're transactional data replication, which means if something changes, it gets replicated, and that process is continuous, which means that you can basically move data applications without any downtime or interruption to service. And that's absolutely critical for what I called earlier Cloud V2, which is the enterprises moving to Cloud, they have to be able to get there without any interruption to service. Small data, yeah, you can use that kind of technology, or non-strategic data, yeah, you can use this kind of technology. Strategic data and strategic applications, trading systems, you know, you can't be 99.99% correct if somebody's got cancer or not, right? If you're using the Cloud, or machine learning technology to figure that out, you can't be, you know, almost certain, you need to be completely certain, and that requires data to be where it's supposed to be. >> So, Amazon's a partner of yours. What's it like being a partner of Amazon's these days? Give us your point on that. >> Amazon are a phenomenal company. They have to be, right, they've just built, probably the world's most valuable enterprise technology business by a country mile in ten years. I mean, it's just, you know, zero to 10 billion in (snaps fingers) the blink of an eye is just incredible. And part of their secret is, they base everything on data, and I've learned a lot from dealing with Amazon actually, everything is data driven. You know, they have this Five Why's, I'm sure you've read about it in the media, where you have to prove, through facts and figures, not sentiment, that something is so, and that's pretty uncomfortable for a lot of people. For us, it's not, and it's, working with Amazon, their requirements, the bar is so high it's made our products much much much better. They have a well-architectured review that they go through with all their partners. They're actually great to partner with, if you're not a very good company, I would, daresay, don't bother because they'll find you out very quickly. But they're a great set of guys, very very good to partner with, it's very black and white, it's very quantitative, but, yeah, they've obviously got a huge market. >> Yeah. One of the things I love about this show is that the quality of people, you know, is phenomenal, and you get such a, I mean, a huge cross-section, not only location, size, industry, but one of the things I think that is across everybody that comes here, is they're trying new things, they're open to, you know, moving forward, iterating, learning, which has been one of the things that, you know, we kind of say what holds companies back is like, oh I'm doing it the old way. So, what's your experience been with the users? Any stories you can tell from that standpoint? >> So, right down to the bottom of the organization, they're prepared to take any idea. I mean, Amazon Web Services, for goodness' sake was basically a paper that was written and presented to Jeff Bezos, right, who said, yeah that's a good idea to Jassy and said yeah, let's go off and do it. But they, virtually every innovation in their organization is somebody coming up with an idea. They have the mechanics and machinery to listen to that idea. We do it ourselves, so, we're looking at serverless compute and using Lambda so we can have replication literally as a service that you can just call, you can call Paxos, which is our core IP, it's based on Paxos, it's called DConE, so you can call that algorithm and get a replication service. So these concepts, some of the concepts that Amazon are introducing, their ability to move so quickly to introduce new products is because they have this innovative approach where they allow people, right down to the very bottom of the organization, to come up with new ideas and approaches to doing things. And it's perfectly fine for somebody at the bottom of their organization to challenge somebody at the top of the organization. In fact, they expect it. And again, that's not comfortable for a lot of people, but I like the way that they go around their business. >> I'm looking forward to, Alexa, how's my replication doing? (laughs loudly) >> Wouldn't that be great? >> Well, it's interesting you say that, we had Malcolm Gladwell on a month or two ago, and he talked about, the most powerful organizations are the ones that let the fresh ideas bubble up from the bottom because it's the people that have not been tainted by being in part of the company, that had new and creative and innovative, and a different way of looking at it, and oftentimes they get squelched, so the fact that they let those ideas come up, and also driven by data, pretty powerful. >> It's interesting being at the show this week, and I have two types of meetings, I have meetings with companies at the forefront of this Cloud revolution, companies at the forefront of building new, innovative applications that were designed for the Cloud, and then I have other meetings with companies, vendors, who have been caught out by this. They didn't see this coming, they didn't expect, you know, this sea change to happen as quickly as it's happening and they really are fighting and scrambling to know what to do, and this is everything from, you know, the big services companies, the big traditional enterprise storage companies are really struggling to understand what they're going to do with the Cloud, and they don't have those processes and procedures inside their businesses like we do. Like, they can't change and be agile and nimble and take advantage of these new products and markets that are suddenly appearing overnight. >> Yeah, it's funny, the guy from (mumbles) was talking about, they don't want to be a system integrator anymore, right now it's services integration and really changing the way you think about putting this stuff together, it's very different. >> It is very different, and, it used to be the case that you'd get, and I know we've all lived through this, you get the enterprise sales guy that turns up in the $2,000 suit and the Porsche parked outside, and comes in and sells you, you know, a piece of software, and asks you how your wife and kids are doing and all the rest of it. Look at the audience here today. They're not going to put up with, you know, that style of enterprise sales moving forward. People are buying stuff from a marketplace. The expectation is you can choose, select, deploy, and build applications yourself, and that's how many of these companies are operating today. So it's not just the sea change in the technology, the technology's facilitating completely different and new markets. >> Jeff: Behaviors, yeah. >> David, want to give you the final word on, as you leave this show, you know, your takeaways, what you want people to know. >> Clearly we're in an era where, this is going to be an Enterprise Cloud. Cloud 2.0 is all about enterprises that are taking their data from On-premises into the Cloud. It's happening very quickly. 32,000 people are here this week, they're here for a reason, because they have to be. This is a sea change in the marketplace, and I hope, well I know WANdisco's the vanguard of moving many of those enterprises from On-premises into the Cloud very quickly. >> Alright, absolutely, definitely agree with the sea change there. David Richards, founder and still CEO of WANdisco, really appreciate you joining us again. We'll be back to wrap up our coverage of today at AWS re:Invent 2016. You're watching the CUBE. (light techno music)