>>Okay. We're back here inside the cube, our flagship program about the events and extract the signal from the noise. This is strata conference. O'Reilly media is a big data event. We're talking about Hadoop analytics, data platforms, and big is come into the enterprise from the front door. As we heard them yesterday. I'm John Frey with Dave Volante, wiki.org. And we're here with Jack Norris, our cube alumni, and a favorite guest here. You're a in charge executive at map. Our, you guys are leading the charge with this use of a dupe. Welcome back to the cube. Thank you. Okay, so what's, let's chat about what's going on. What's your take on all the big news out here for the distributions. I'll the big power moose. You guys have a relationship with EMC. Okay. Exclusive relationship with those guys. Intel's got a distribution Horton versus with Microsoft, a lot of things going on. So this is your wheelhouse. So what's your take on the Hadoop action here? >>Well, I think there's an article in Forbes where I think they, they said it best. This is showing that map bars had the right strategy all along. And what we're seeing is, is basically there's a fairly low bar to taking a patchy Hadoop and providing a distribution. And so we're seeing a lot of new entrance in the market and there's, there's a lot of options. If you want to try Hadoop and experiment and get started. And then there's production class Hadoop, which includes enterprise data protection, snapshots mirrors, ability to integrate. And that's basically map R so start and test and dev with, with a lot of options and then move into production, class >>Mapbox. So break it down for the folks out there who are tipping the toe in the water and hearing all the noise. Cause it's right now, the noise level is very high, right? With the, with the recent announcements. But you guys have been doing business obviously for many years in this area. So when people say, Hey, I want to get a Hadoop distribution with enterprise. What, what should they be looking for? Okay. Because it's not that easy to kind of swing through the noise. So could you share with the folks out there, what, what to look for in like the, the table stakes, the check boxes? Cause there's a lot of claims. There's a lot of noise is this. And that is a lot of different options. Some teams have more committers or no committers than others, so that's all noise, but let's what are the key things that customers need to know? So I think there's, miling, >>There's three areas. All right. One is kind of how it integrates into your enterprise. And with Hadoop, you have the Hadoop distributed file system API. That's how you interact. Well, if you're able to also use standard tools that can use standard file and database access, it makes it much, much easier. So map ours unique and supporting NFS and making that happen. That's a, that's a big difference. The second is on dependability and there's high availability capabilities and then there's data protection. So I'll focus on snapshots as an example, you've got data replicated and Hindu. That's great. But if you have a user error, an application error, that's replicated just as quickly. So having the ability to recover and double-edged in time. Yeah. So if I can say, Hey, I made a mistake. Can I go back two minutes earlier with snapshots that makes it possible map ours, unique and snapshot support. And then finally, there's there's disaster recovery mirroring where you can go across clusters, mirror, what's going on across the land and being able to recover in the case of a disaster where you lose a whole cluster or use a whole >>Section and that's not available in >>Other, those aren't available either. That's >>NFS, >>Snapshots has been on the JIRA list for over five years. >>Yeah. Okay. So I wonder >>If I could find that and then there's third. Cause I said three and almost said two, the third is performance and scale and, but >>That'd be for >>Integration, dependability and speed. >>Okay. So dependability Jr's part of the VR snapshots. MDR. Okay. So let's talk about the performance because you guys had asked a Google's a big partner of you guys. So we should, we just had them on the cube strata. So you have to have a record setting. Do you have a record setting? EMC take that. Well, you work with DMC. So let me talk about the performance real quick. Then we'll talk about some of the EMC conversations, but performance, you have a variety of diverse performance benchmarks, Google you have within the enterprise. Can you talk about those? >>So, so what we announced this week was the minute sort world record. So minutes or runs across technologies is just, how can you, you know, how much data can you sort in 60 seconds? And if you look back at, at the previous record that was done in the labs with Microsoft with special purpose software, and they did 1.4 terabytes Hadoop hasn't been used since 2009, it's been several years because it's got features in there that work against performance. Things like checkpointing and logging because it assumes you've got long running MapReduce jobs. So we set the record with our distribution of Hadoop. So we have kind of one hand tied behind our back, given that technology. Secondly, we sent it in the cloud, which is the other hand tied behind our back because it's a, it's a virtualized environment. So we set the record with just with your legs And a 1.5 terabytes in 60 seconds. Very proud of that. >>Well, that's interesting because we've been doing a lot of labs testing, Dave and I and our teams on cost. Right. So, yeah. And it's an interesting benchmark because you always don't look at the nuance, the cost to compare a cloud performance versus bare metal. Most people don't factor into setup, cost of deployment. Exactly. So can you just quickly talk about that and how significant of an order of magnitude of your customer? >>So the, the previous Hadoop record took 3,400 servers about 27,000 cores, 13, 13,000, almost 14,000 discs and did 600 gigs, actually a little less than that at 5 78. And on Google, we did it with 2020 100 virtual instances, 8,000 cores did 1.5 terabytes >>And costs. You spin up the Google versus >>Basically if you look at that and you assume conservatively 4,000 per server, it's $13.8 million worth of hardware previously. And the cost to do that run on Google was $20 and 33 cents. >>Well, you got to discount. I mean, come on a partner mean it really costs that much. I mean, they that's what they would charge for it. Actually >>We are map artist's case on that minute. If you look at the Asheville charges to be 1200, >>Okay. It's not six millions, so millions to thousands. Yep. Okay. That's impressive. We'll have to go look at the numbers. Like we're going to look at GreenPlum's numbers in the next couple of weeks when talking about the Google relationship and men were that the up way with that was that >>Very excited about it. We're actually deployed throughout the cloud. We've got multiple partners Google's in limited preview. So we've got a number of customers kind of, you know, testing that and, and doing some really interesting things. >>So we monitor the data center market. I'll see with our proprietary tool that you know about the viewfinder and crowd spots and thing is that the data center verticals interesting, right? If you look at the sentiment analysis of what the conversation is on, on just the Twitter data, it's Facebook, apple, these companies. And when we dig into the numbers, it's not so much the companies, it's the fact that their data center operations are significantly being looked at as the leading indicator for where CEO's are going. So I want to ask you in your conversations with your customers, what are the conversations around moving to the cloud and where are they on that transition? Because we hear, yeah, one of the cloud for all the benefits you were mentioning, but Google and Facebook, these are the gold standards as, as architecture necessarily a cut and paste architecture, but they see the benefits that they're doing. So what are your conversations with your enterprise customers around the cloud cloud architecture and what other features besides replication and disaster recovery, are they, are they looking at >>Well, it's basically work, workload driven and dataset driven. So data that's already in the cloud are kind of a natural first step is, well, why don't I do the analysis there as well? So things like Google earth and digital advertising data, that's real interesting candidates for that also periodic workload. So if they have workloads that need to spin up and spin down, the, the cloud works, works really well for that. And in some cases it's driven by their own environments. They've got data centers that are approaching capacity and they need to kind of do offloads and then looking at the, at the cloud because it's easy to get up running quickly and uses an alternative. >>I want to do come back to one of your three sort of value props here, particularly the dependability piece and specifically the snapshot. So somebody asked me one time, how do you know a couple of years ago, how do you back up a petabyte as he could do this thing? And then his answer was, well, you don't know. So I want to, I want to ask you how your customers are protecting and, and, and, and what you guys are bringing to the table. >>So snapshots is not a bolt on feature. It's basically a low level feature based on the underlying data architecture. So when we architected that from the beginning, snapshots was, was a, was a core feature. And if you use a technique called redirect on, right, you're not copying the data, right? So you can do efficient, you can do a petabyte snapshot, you know, basically almost instantaneously because you're tracking the pointers of the latest blocks that have been written. So if, if the data change rate is, is basically, data's not changing, you can snapshot every minute and not have any additional storage overhead. >>Right. Okay. And, and so you can set that. So you, you map, map, our technologies will allow them to set that, dial that up, dial it down and switches. >>So we support logical volumes. So you can set policies at that volume and you can say, well, this volume is critical data. And then I can set policies. Well, critical data is every minute. And then I can change what the definition of critical data is. Maybe it's every five minutes, et cetera. So you can set up these different policies at volumes and have snapshots happen independently for each. >>Can you do that by workload or dataset or by application or whatever I get essentially provided as a service, as opposed to kind of a one size fits all approach. >>Exactly. And that, that also corresponds to user access, administrative privileges, you know, other features and policies within the, within the cluster. >>How about the, you know, this whole trend toward bringing SQL into, into Hadoop. What's, what's your take on that? And what's your angle? >>So interactive, SQL's an important aspect because you've got so many people trained in the organization and, and leverage, you know, sequel, but it's one of many use cases that needs to run across a big data platform. So there's a range of big data analytics, batch analytics, interactive capabilities with sequel, database operations, no sequel search streaming, all those are kind of functions that need to run across a platform. So it's a piece, but it's not the big driver, because what we've seen is that there's higher rival rate of machine generated data and machine generated response to respond to those for digital advertising, for recommendation engines for fraud detection can really move the needle for an organization, have huge swings and profitability >>And the ball down the field big time. Yeah. And >>Having an interactive piece with a kind of a human element involved, it doesn't really scale and work on a 24 by seven basis. >>Jack final question, we're over now by a minute. But when I ask a one party question, obviously, very competitive landscape right now in terms of competitiveness, the stakes are higher because the demand in the market market opportunities is massive. What's map ours business strategy going forward, no change in direction. Is it going to be same old, same old. You guys have any new things going down and you see the marketplace. >>We've got a huge lead when it comes to kind of mission critical enterprise grade features. And our focus is one platform. So the ability to support enterprise Hadoop, enterprise HBase and provide those full capabilities for ease of use for dependability, for performance. And, you know, we've seen a lot of companies test on one distribution and switch to map are and will continue to help that in the future. >>Well, we, we will, we will say we've been covering this big data space now going on four years now, Dave and I, and we've watched all the players pivot a few times. You guys have not, you guys have been true to your mission from day one and that we know where you stand. No one, everyone knows where you stand enterprise grade. It's a good strategy. I think everyone's putting that on their label now. So enterprise grade Washington, we call it a congratulations map art and said the cube. We'll be right back with our next guest here on day three wall-to-wall coverage at O'Reilly media. When do our news, our next from 12 to one, we'll be right back after this short break.

>> Live from Midtown Manhattan, it's theCUBE. Covering BigData New York City 2017. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem sponsors. (calm electronic music) >> Basil Faruqui, who's the Solutions Marketing Manger at BMC, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, good to be back on theCUBE. >> So first of all, heard you guys had a tough time in Houston, so hope everything's gettin' better, and best wishes to everyone down in-- >> We're definitely in recovery mode now. >> Yeah and so hopefully that can get straightened out quick. What's going on with BMC? Give us a quick update in context to BigData NYC. What's happening, what is BMC doing in the big data space now, the AI space now, the IOT space now, the cloud space? >> So like you said that, you know, the data link space, the IOT space, the AI space, there are four components of this entire picture that literally haven't changed since the beginning of computing. If you look at those four components of a data pipeline it's ingestion, storage, processing, and analytics. What keeps changing around it, is the infrastructure, the types of data, the volume of data, and the applications that surround it. And the rate of change has picked up immensely over the last few years with Hadoop coming in to the picture, public cloud providers pushing it. It's obviously creating a number of challenges, but one of the biggest challenges that we are seeing in the market, and we're helping costumers address, is a challenge of automating this and, obviously, the benefit of automation is in scalability as well and reliability. So when you look at this rather simple data pipeline, which is now becoming more and more complex, how do you automate all of this from a single point of control? How do you continue to absorb new technologies, and not re-architect our automation strategy every time, whether it's it Hadoop, whether it's bringing in machine learning from a cloud provider? And that is the issue we've been solving for customers-- >> Alright let me jump into it. So, first of all, you mention some things that never change, ingestion, storage, and what's the third one? >> Ingestion, storage, processing and eventually analytics. >> And analytics. >> Okay so that's cool, totally buy that. Now if your move and say, hey okay, if you believe that standard, but now in the modern era that we live in, which is complex, you want breath of data, but also you want the specialization when you get down to machine limits highly bounded, that's where the automation is right now. We see the trend essentially making that automation more broader as it goes into the customer environments. >> Correct >> How do you architect that? If I'm a CXO, or I'm a CDO, what's in it for me? How do I architect this? 'Cause that's really the number one thing, as I know what the building blocks are, but they've changed in their dynamics to the market place. >> So the way I look at it, is that what defines success and failure, and particularly in big data projects, is your ability to scale. If you start a pilot, and you spend three months on it, and you deliver some results, but if you cannot roll it out worldwide, nationwide, whatever it is, essentially the project has failed. The analogy I often given is Walmart has been testing the pick-up tower, I don't know if you've seen. So this is basically a giant ATM for you to go pick up an order that you placed online. They're testing this at about a hundred stores today. Now if that's a success, and Walmart wants to roll this out nation wide, how much time do you think their IT department's going to have? Is this a five year project, a ten year project? No, and the management's going to want this done six months, ten months. So essentially, this is where automation becomes extremely crucial because it is now allowing you to deliver speed to market and without automation, you are not going to be able to get to an operational stage in a repeatable and reliable manner. >> But you're describing a very complex automation scenario. How can you automate in a hurry without sacrificing the details of what needs to be? In other words, there would seem to call for repurposing or reusing prior automation scripts and rules, so forth. How can the Walmart's of the world do that fast, but also do it well? >> Yeah so we do it, we go about it in two ways. One is that out of the box we provide a lot of pre-built integrations to some of the most commonly used systems in an enterprise. All the way from the Mainframes, Oracles, SAPs, Hadoop, Tableaus of the world, they're all available out of the box for you to quickly reuse these objects and build an automated data pipeline. The other challenge we saw, and particularly when we entered the big data space four years ago was that the automation was something that was considered close to the project becoming operational. Okay, and that's where a lot of rework happened because developers had been writing their own scripts using point solutions, so we said alright, it's time to shift automation left, and allow companies to build automations and artifact very early in the developmental life cycle. About a month ago, we released what we call Control-M Workbench, its essentially a community edition of Control-M, targeted towards developers so that instead of writing their own scripts, they can use Control-M in a completely offline manner, without having to connect to an enterprise system. As they build, and test, and iterate, they're using Control-M to do that. So as the application progresses through the development life cycle, and all of that work can then translate easily into an enterprise edition of Control-M. >> Just want to quickly define what shift left means for the folks that might not know software methodologies, they don't think >> Yeah, so. of left political, left or right. >> So, we're not shifting Control-M-- >> Alt-left, alt-right, I mean, this is software development, so quickly take a minute and explain what shift left means, and the importance of it. >> Correct, so if you think of software development as a straight line continuum, you've got, you will start with building some code, you will do some testing, then unit testing, then user acceptance testing. As it moves along this chain, there was a point right before production where all of the automation used to happen. Developers would come in and deliver the application to Ops and Ops would say, well hang on a second, all this Crontab, and these other point solutions we've been using for automation, that's not what we use in production, and we need you to now go right in-- >> So test early and often. >> Test early and often. So the challenge was the developers, the tools they used were not the tools that were being used on the production end of the site. And there was good reason for it, because developers don't need something really heavy and with all the bells and whistles early in the development lifecycle. Now Control-M Workbench is a very light version, which is targeted at developers and focuses on the needs that they have when they're building and developing it. So as the application progresses-- >> How much are you seeing waterfall-- >> But how much can they, go ahead. >> How much are you seeing waterfall, and then people shifting left becoming more prominent now? What percentage of your customers have moved to Agile, and shifting left percentage wise? >> So we survey our customers on a regular basis, and the last survey showed that eighty percent of the customers have either implemented a more continuous integration delivery type of framework, or are in the process of doing it, And that's the other-- >> And getting close to a 100 as possible, pretty much. >> Yeah, exactly. The tipping point is reached. >> And what is driving. >> What is driving all is the need from the business. The days of the five year implementation timelines are gone. This is something that you need to deliver every week, two weeks, and iteration. >> Iteration, yeah, yeah. And we have also innovated in that space, and the approach we call jobs as code, where you can build entire complex data pipelines in code format, so that you can enable the automation in a continuous integration and delivery framework. >> I have one quick question, Jim, and I'll let you take the floor and get a word in soon, but I have one final question on this BMC methodology thing. You guys have a history, obviously BMC goes way back. Remember Max Watson CEO, and Bob Beach, back in '97 we used to chat with him, dominated that landscape. But we're kind of going back to a systems mindset. The question for you is, how do you view the issue of this holy grail, the promised land of AI and machine learning, where end-to-end visibility is really the goal, right? At the same time, you want bounded experiences at root level so automation can kick in to enable more activity. So there's a trade-off between going for the end-to-end visibility out of the gate, but also having bounded visibility and data to automate. How do you guys look at that market? Because customers want the end-to-end promise, but they don't want to try to get there too fast. There's a diseconomies of scale potentially. How do you talk about that? >> Correct. >> And that's exactly the approach we've taken with Control-M Workbench, the Community Edition, because earlier on you don't need capabilities like SLA management and forecasting and automated promotion between environments. Developers want to be able to quickly build and test and show value, okay, and they don't need something that is with all the bells and whistles. We're allowing you to handle that piece, in that manner, through Control-M Workbench. As things progress and the application progresses, the needs change as well. Well now I'm closer to delivering this to the business, I need to be able to manage this within an SLA, I need to be able to manage this end-to-end and connect this to other systems of record, and streaming data, and clickstream data, all of that. So that, we believe that it doesn't have to be a trade off, that you don't have to compromise speed and quality for end-to-end visibility and enterprise grade automation. >> You mentioned trade offs, so the Control-M Workbench, the developer can use it offline, so what amount of testing can they possibly do on a complex data pipeline automation when the tool's offline? I mean it seems like the more development they do offline, the greater the risk that it simply won't work when they go into production. Give us a sense for how they mitigate, the mitigation risk in using Control-M Workbench. >> Sure, so we spend a lot of time observing how developers work, right? And very early in the development stage, all they're doing is working off of their Mac or their laptop, and they're not really connected to any. And that is where they end up writing a lot of scripts, because whatever code business logic they've written, the way they're going to make it run is by writing scripts. And that, essentially, becomes the problem, because then you have scripts managing more scripts, and as the application progresses, you have this complex web of scripts and Crontabs and maybe some opensource solutions, trying to simply make all of this run. And by doing this on an offline manner, that doesn't mean that they're losing all of the other Control-M capabilities. Simply, as the application progresses, whatever automation that the builtin Control-M can seamlessly now flow into the next stage. So when you are ready to take an application into production, there's essentially no rework required from an automation perspective. All of that, that was built, can now be translated into the enterprise-grade Control M, and that's where operations can then go in and add the other artifacts, such as SLA management and forecasting and other things that are important from an operational perspective. >> I'd like to get both your perspectives, 'cause, so you're like an analyst here, so Jim, I want you guys to comment. My question to both of you would be, lookin' at this time in history, obviously in the BMC side we mention some of the history, you guys are transforming on a new journey in extending that capability of this world. Jim, you're covering state-of-the-art AI machine learning. What's your take of this space now? Strata Data, which is now Hadoop World, which is Cloud Air went public, Hortonworks is now public, kind of the big, the Hadoop guys kind of grew up, but the world has changed around them, it's not just about Hadoop anymore. So I'd like to get your thoughts on this kind of perspective, that we're seeing a much broader picture in big data in NYC, versus the Strata Hadoop show, which seems to be losing steam, but I mean in terms of the focus. The bigger focus is much broader, horizontally scalable. And your thoughts on the ecosystem right now? >> Let the Basil answer fist, unless Basil wants me to go first. >> I think that the reason the focus is changing, is because of where the projects are in their lifecycle. Now what we're seeing is most companies are grappling with, how do I take this to the next level? How do I scale? How do I go from just proving out one or two use cases to making the entire organization data driven, and really inject data driven decision making in all facets of decision making? So that is, I believe what's driving the change that we're seeing, that now you've gone from Strata Hadoop to being Strata Data, and focus on that element. And, like I said earlier, the difference between success and failure is your ability to scale and operationalize. Take machine learning for an example. >> Good, that's where there's no, it's not a hype market, it's show me the meat on the bone, show me scale, I got operational concerns of security and what not. >> And machine learning, that's one of the hottest topics. A recent survey I read, which pulled a number of data scientists, it revealed that they spent about less than 3% of their time in training the data models, and about 80% of their time in data manipulation, data transformation and enrichment. That is obviously not the best use of a data scientist's time, and that is exactly one of the problems we're solving for our customers around the world. >> That needs to be automated to the hilt. To help them >> Correct. to be more productive, to deliver faster results. >> Ecosystem perspective, Jim, what's your thoughts? >> Yeah, everything that Basil said, and I'll just point out that many of the core uses cases for AI are automation of the data pipeline. It's driving machine learning driven predictions, classifications, abstractions and so forth, into the data pipeline, into the application pipeline to drive results in a way that is contextually and environmentally aware of what's goin' on. The history, historical data, what's goin' on in terms of current streaming data, to drive optimal outcomes, using predictive models and so forth, in line to applications. So really, fundamentally then, what's goin' on is that automation is an artifact that needs to be driven into your application architecture as a repurposable resource for a variety of-- >> Do customers even know what to automate? I mean, that's the question, what do I-- >> You're automating human judgment. You're automating effort, like the judgments that a working data engineer makes to prepare data for modeling and whatever. More and more that can be automated, 'cause those are pattern structured activities that have been mastered by smart people over many years. >> I mean we just had a customer on with a Glass'Gim CSK, with that scale, and his attitude is, we see the results from the users, then we double down and pay for it and automate it. So the automation question, it's an option question, it's a rhetorical question, but it just begs the question, which is who's writing the algorithms as machines get smarter and start throwing off their own real-time data? What are you looking at? How do you determine? You're going to need machine learning for machine learning? Are you going to need AI for AI? Who writes the algorithms >> It's actually, that's. for the algorithm? >> Automated machine learning is a hot, hot not only research focus, but we're seeing it more and more solution providers, like Microsoft and Google and others, are goin' deep down, doubling down in investments in exactly that area. That's a productivity play for data scientists. >> I think the data markets going to change radically in my opinion. I see you're startin' to some things with blockchain and some other things that are interesting. Data sovereignty, data governance are huge issues. Basil, just give your final thoughts for this segment as we wrap this up. Final thoughts on data and BMC, what should people know about BMC right now? Because people might have a historical view of BMC. What's the latest, what should they know? What's the new Instagram picture of BMC? What should they know about you guys? >> So I think what I would say people should know about BMC is that all the work that we've done over the last 25 years, in virtually every platform that came before Hadoop, we have now innovated to take this into things like big data and cloud platforms. So when you are choosing Control-M as a platform for automation, you are choosing a very, very mature solution, an example of which is Navistar. Their CIO's actually speaking at the Keno tomorrow. They've had Control-M for 15, 20 years, and they've automated virtually every business function through Control-M. And when they started their predictive maintenance project, where they're ingesting data from about 300,000 vehicles today to figure out when this vehicle might break, and to predict maintenance on it. When they started their journey, they said that they always knew that they were going to use Control-M for it, because that was the enterprise standard, and they knew that they could simply now extend that capability into this area. And when they started about three, four years ago, they were ingesting data from about 100,000 vehicles. That has now scaled to over 325,000 vehicles, and they have no had to re-architect their strategy as they grow and scale. So I would say that is one of the key messages that we are taking to market, is that we are bringing innovation that spans over 25 years, and evolving it-- >> Modernizing it, basically. >> Modernizing it, and bringing it to newer platforms. >> Well congratulations, I wouldn't call that a pivot, I'd call it an extensibility issue, kind of modernizing kind of the core things. >> Absolutely. >> Thanks for coming and sharing the BMC perspective inside theCUBE here, on BigData NYC, this is the theCUBE, I'm John Furrier. Jim Kobielus here in New York city. More live coverage, for three days we'll be here, today, tomorrow and Thursday, and BigData NYC, more coverage after this short break. (calm electronic music) (vibrant electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from New York, it's theCUBE. Covering theCUBE New York City 2018. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone to theCUBE NYC. This is theCUBE's live coverage covering CubeNYC Strata Hadoop Strata Data Conference. All things data happen here in New York this week. I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris. Our next guest is Basil Faruqui lead solutions marketing manager digital business automation within BMC returns, he was here last year with us and also Big Data SV, which has been renamed CubeNYC, Cube SV because it's not just big data anymore. We're hearing words like multi cloud, Istio, all those Kubernetes. Data now is so important, it's now up and down the stack, impacting everyone, we talked about this last year with Control M, how you guys are automating in a hurry. The four pillars of pipelining data. The setup days are over; welcome to theCUBE. >> Well thank you and it's great to be back on theCUBE. And yeah, what you said is exactly right, so you know, big data has really, I think now been distilled down to data. Everybody understands data is big, and it's important, and it is really you know, it's quite a cliche, but to a larger degree, data is the new oil, as some people say. And I think what you said earlier is important in that we've been very fortunate to be able to not only follow the journey of our customers but be a part of it. So about six years ago, some of the early adopters of Hadoop came to us and said that look, we use your products for traditional data warehousing on the ERP side for orchestration workloads. We're about to take some of these projects on Hadoop into production and really feel that the Hadoop ecosystem is lacking enterprise-grade workflow orchestration tools. So we partnered with them and some of the earliest goals they wanted to achieve was build a data lake, provide richer and wider data sets to the end users to be able to do some dashboarding, customer 360, and things of that nature. Very quickly, in about five years time, we have seen a lot of these projects mature from how do I build a data lake to now applying cutting-edge ML and AI and cloud is a major enabler of that. You know, it's really, as we were talking about earlier, it's really taking away excuses for not being able to scale quickly from an infrastructure perspective. Now you're talking about is it Hadoop or is it S3 or is it Azure Blob Storage, is it Snowflake? And from a control-end perspective, we're very platform and technology agnostic, so some of our customers who had started with Hadoop as a platform, they are now looking at other technologies like Snowflake, so one of our customers describes it as kind of the spine or a power strip of orchestration where regardless of what technology you have, you can just plug and play in and not worry about how do I rewire the orchestration workflows because control end is taking care of it. >> Well you probably always will have to worry about that to some degree. But I think where you're going, and this is where I'm going to test with you, is that as analytics, as data is increasingly recognized as a strategic asset, as analytics increasingly recognizes the way that you create value out of those data assets, and as a business becomes increasingly dependent upon the output of analytics to make decisions and ultimately through AI to act differently in markets, you are embedding these capabilities or these technologies deeper into business. They have to become capabilities. They have to become dependable. They have to become reliable, predictable, cost, performance, all these other things. That suggests that ultimately, the historical approach of focusing on the technology and trying to apply it to a periodic or series of data science problems has to become a little bit more mature so it actually becomes a strategic capability. So the business can say we're operating on this, but the technologies to take that underlying data science technology to turn into business operations that's where a lot of the net work has to happen. Is that what you guys are focused on? >> Yeah, absolutely, and I think one of the big differences that we're seeing in general in the industry is that this time around, the pull of how do you enable technology to drive the business is really coming from the line of business, versus starting on the technology side of the house and then coming to the business and saying hey we've got some cool technologies that can probably help you, it's really line of business now saying no, I need better analytics so I can drive new business models for my company, right? So the need for speed is greater than ever because the pull is from the line of business side. And this is another area where we are unique is that, you know, Control M has been designed in a way where it's not just a set of solutions or tools for the technical guys. Now, the line of business is getting closer and closer, you know, it's blending into the technical side as well. They have a very, very keen interest in understanding are the dashboards going to be refreshed on time? Are we going to be able to get all the right promotional offers at the right time? I mean, we're here at NYC Strata, there's a lot of real-time promotion happening here. The line of business has direct interest in the delivery and the timing of all of this, so we have always had multiple interfaces to Control M where a business user who has an interest in understanding are the promotional offers going to happen at the right time and is that on schedule? They have a mobile app for them to do that. A developer who's building up complex, multi-application platform, they have an API and a programmatic interface to do that. Operations that has to monitor all of this has rich dashboards to be able to do that. That's one of the areas that has been key for our success over the last couple decades, and we're seeing that translate very well into the big data place. >> So I just want to go under the hood for a minute because I love that answer. And I'd like to pivot off what Peter said, tying it back to the business, okay, that's awesome. And I want to learn a little bit more about this because we talked about this last year and I kind of am seeing it now. Kubernetes and all this orchestration is about workloads. You guys nailed the workflow issue, complex workflows. Because if you look at it, if you're adding line of business into the equation, that's just complexity in and of itself. As more workflows exist within its own line of business, whether it's recommendations and offers and workflow issues, more lines of business in there is complex for even IT to deal with, so you guys have nailed that. How does that work? Do you plug it in and the lines of businesses have their own developers, so the people who work with the workflows engage how? >> So that's a good question, with sort of orchestration and automation now becoming very, very generic, it's kind of important to classify where we play. So there's a lot of tools that do release and build automation. There's a lot of tools that'll do infrastructure automation and orchestration. All of this infrastructure and release management process is done ultimately to run applications on top of it, and the workflows of the application need orchestration and that's the layer that we play in. And if you think about how does the end user, the business and consumer interact with all of this technology is through applications, k? So the orchestration of the workflow's inside the applications, whether you start all the way from an ERP or a CRM and then you land into a data lake and then do an ML model, and then out come the recommendations analytics, that's the layer we are automating today. Obviously, all of this-- >> By the way, the technical complexity for the user's in the app. >> Correct, so the line of business obviously has a lot more control, you're seeing roles like chief digital officers emerge, you're seeing CTOs that have mandates like okay you're going to be responsible for all applications that are facing customer facing where the CIO is going to take care of everything that's inward facing. It's not a settled structure or science involved. >> It's evolving fast. >> It's evolving fast. But what's clear is that line of business has a lot more interest and influence in driving these technology projects and it's important that technologies evolve in a way where line of business can not only understand but take advantage of that. >> So I think it's a great question, John, and I want to build on that and then ask you something. So the way we look at the world is we say the first fifty years of computing were known process, unknown technology. The next fifty years are going to be unknown process, known technology. It's all going to look like a cloud. But think about what that means. Known process, unknown technology, Control M and related types of technologies tended to focus on how you put in place predictable workflows in the technology layer. And now, unknown process, known technology, driven by the line of business, now we're talking about controlling process flows that are being created, bespoke, strategic, differentiating doing business. >> Well, dynamic, too, I mean, dynamic. >> Highly dynamic, and those workflows in many respects, those technologies, piecing applications and services together, become the process that differentiates the business. Again, you're still focused on the infrastructure a bit, but you've moved it up. Is that right? >> Yeah, that's exactly right. We see our goal as abstracting the complexity of the underlying application data and infrastructure. So, I mean, it's quite amazing-- >> So it could be easily reconfigured to a business's needs. >> Exactly, so whether you're on Hadoop and now you're thinking about moving to Snowflake or tomorrow something else that comes up, the orchestration or the workflow, you know, that's as a business as a product that's our goal is to continue to evolve quickly and in a manner that we continue to abstract the complexity so from-- >> So I've got to ask you, we've been having a lot of conversations around Hadoop versus Kubernetes on multi cloud, so as cloud has certainly come in and changed the game, there's no debate on that. How it changes is debatable, but we know that multiple clouds is going to be the modus operandus for customers. >> Correct. >> So I got a lot of data and now I've got pipelining complexities and workflows are going to get even more complex, potentially. How do you see the impact of the cloud, how are you guys looking at that, and what are some customer use cases that you see for you guys? >> So the, what I mentioned earlier, that being platform and technology agnostic is actually one of the unique differentiating factors for us, so whether you are an AWS or an Azure or a Google or On-Prem or still on a mainframe, a lot of, we're in New York, a lot of the banks, insurance companies here still do some of the most critical processing on the mainframe. The ability to abstract all of that whether it's cloud or legacy solutions is one of our key enablers for our customers, and I'll give you an example. So Malwarebytes is one of our customers and they've been using Control M for several years. Primarily the entire structure is built on AWS, but they are now utilizing Google cloud for some of their recommendation analysis on sentiment analysis because their goal is to pick the best of breed technology for the problem they're looking to solve. >> Service, the best breed service is in the cloud. >> The best breed service is in the cloud to solve the business problem. So from Control M's perspective, transcending from AWS to Google cloud is completely abstracted for them, so runs Google tomorrow it's Azure, they decide to build a private cloud, they will be able to extend the same workflow orchestration. >> But you can build these workflows across whatever set of services are available. >> Correct, and you bring up an important point. It's not only being able to build the workflows across platforms but being able to define dependencies and track the dependencies across all of this, because none of this is happening in silos. If you want to use Google's API to do the recommendations, well, you've got to feed it the data, and the data's pipeline, like we talked about last time, data ingestion, data storage, data processing, and analytics have very, very intricate dependencies, and these solutions should be able to manage not only the building of the workflow but the dependencies as well. >> But you're defining those elements as fundamental building blocks through a control model >> Correct. >> That allows you to treat the higher level services as reliable, consistent, capabilities. >> Correct, and the other thing I would like to add here is not only just build complex multiplatform, multiapplication workflows, but never lose focus of the business service of the business process there, so you can tie all of this to a business service and then, these things are complex, there are problems, let's say there's an ETL job that fails somewhere upstream, Control M will immediately be able to predict the impact and be able to tell you this means the recommendation engine will not be able to make the recommendations. Now, the staff that's going to work under mediation understands the business impact versus looking at a screen where there's 500 jobs and one of them has failed. What does that really mean? >> Set priorities and focal points and everything else. >> Right. >> So I just want to wrap up by asking you how your talk went at Strata Hadoop Data Conference. What were you talking about, what was the core message? Was it Control M, was it customer presentations? What was the focus? >> So the focus of yesterday's talk was actually, you know, one of the things is academic talk is great, but it's important to, you know, show how things work in real life. The session was focused on a real-use case from a customer. Navistar, they have IOT data-driven pipelines where they are predicting failures of parts inside trucks and buses that they manufacture, you know, reducing vehicle downtime. So we wanted to simulate a demo like that, so that's exactly what we did. It was very well received. In real-time, we spun up EMR environment in AWS, automatically provision control of infrastructure there, we applied spark and machine learning algorithms to the data and out came the recommendation at the end was that, you know, here are the vehicles that are-- >> Fix their brakes. (laughing) >> Exactly, so it was very, very well received. >> I mean, there's a real-world example, there's real money to be saved, maintenance, scheduling, potential liability, accidents. >> Liability is a huge issue for a lot of manufacturers. >> And Navistar has been at the leading edge of how to apply technologies in that business. >> They really have been a poster child for visual transformation. >> They sure have. >> Here's a company that's been around for 100 plus years and when we talk to them they tell us that we have every technology under the sun that has come since the mainframe, and for them to be transforming and leading in this way, we're very fortunate to be part of their journey. >> Well we'd love to talk more about some of these customer use cases. Other people love about theCUBE, we want to do more of them, share those examples, people love to see proof in real-world examples, not just talk so appreciate it sharing. >> Absolutely. >> Thanks for sharing, thanks for the insights. We're here Cube live in New York City, part of CubeNYC, we're getting all the data, sharing that with you. I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris. Stay with us for more day two coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Live from New York. It's theCUBE. Covering theCUBE New York City, 2018. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media, and it's ecosystem partners. >> I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris, our next two guests are Jim Franklin with Dell EMC Director of Product Management Anant Chintamaneni, who is the Vice President of Products at BlueData. Welcome to theCUBE, good to see you. >> Thanks, John. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming on. >> I've been following BlueData since the founding. Great company, and the founders are great. Great teams, so thanks for coming on and sharing what's going on, I appreciate it. >> It's a pleasure, thanks for the opportunity. >> So Jim, talk about the Dell relationship with BlueData. What are you guys doing? You have the Dell-ready solutions. How is that related now, because you've seen this industry with us over the years morph. It's really now about, the set-up days are over, it's about proof points. >> That's right. >> AI and machine learning are driving the signal, which is saying, 'We need results'. There's action on the developer's side, there's action on the deployment, people want ROI, that's the main focus. >> That's right. That's right, and we've seen this journey happen from the new batch processing days, and we're seeing that customer base mature and come along, so the reason why we partnered with BlueData is, you have to have those softwares, you have to have the contenders. They have to have the algorithms, and things like that, in order to make this real. So it's been a great partnership with BlueData, it's dated back actually a little farther back than some may realize, all the way to 2015, believe it or not, when we used to incorporate BlueData with Isilon. So it's been actually a pretty positive partnership. >> Now we've talked with you guys in the past, you guys were on the cutting edge, this was back when Docker containers were fashionable, but now containers have become so proliferated out there, it's not just Docker, containerization has been the wave. Now, Kubernetes on top of it is really bringing in the orchestration. This is really making the storage and the network so much more valuable with workloads, whether respective workloads, and AI is a part of that. How do you guys navigate those waters now? What's the BlueData update, how are you guys taking advantage of that big wave? >> I think, great observation, re-embrace Docker containers, even before actually Docker was even formed as a company by that time, and Kubernetes was just getting launched, so we saw the value of Docker containers very early on, in terms of being able to obviously provide the agility, elasticity, but also, from a packaging of applications perspective, as we all know it's a very dynamic environment, and today, I think we are very happy to know that, with Kubernetes being a household name now, especially a tech company, so the way we're navigating this is, we have a turnkey product, which has containerization, and then now we are taking our value proposition of big data and AI and lifecycle management and bringing it to Kubernetes with an open source project that we launched called Cube Director under our umbrella. So, we're all about bringing stateful applications like Hadoop, AI, ML to the community and to our customer base, which is some of the largest financial services in health care customers. >> So the container revolution has certainly groped developers, and developers have always had a history of chasing after the next cool technology, and for good reason, it's not like just chasing after... Developers tend not to just chase after the shiny thing, they chased after the most productive thing, and they start using it, and they start learning about it, and they make themselves valuable, and they build more valuable applications as a result. But there's this interesting meshing of creators, makers, in the software world, between the development community and the data science community. How are data scientists, who you must be spending a fair amount of time with, starting to adopt containers, what are they looking at? Are they even aware of this, as you try to help these communities come together? >> We absolutely talk to the data scientists and they're the drivers of determining what applications they want to consume for the different news cases. But, at the end of the day, the person who has to deliver these applications, you know data scientists care about time to value, getting the environment quickly all prepared so they can access the right data sets. So, in many ways, most of our customers, many of them are unaware that there's actually containers under the hood. >> So this is the data scientists. >> The data scientists, but the actual administrators and the system administrators were making these tools available, are using containers as a way to accelerate the way they package the software, which has a whole bunch of dependent libraries, and there's a lot of complexity our there. So they're simplifying all that and providing the environment as quickly as possible. >> And in so doing, making sure that whatever workloads are put together, can scaled, can be combined differently and recombined differently, based on requirements of the data scientists. So the data scientist sees the tool... >> Yeah. >> The tool is manifest as, in concert with some of these new container related technologies, and then the whole CICD process supports the data scientist >> The other thing to think about though, is that this also allows freedom of choice, and we were discussing off camera before, these developers want to pick out what they want to pick out what they want to work with, they don't want to have to be locked in. So with containers, you can also speed that deployment but give them freedom to choose the tools that make them best productive. That'll make them much happier, and probably much more efficient. >> So there's a separation under the data science tools, and the developer tools, but they end up all supporting the same basic objective. So how does the infrastructure play in this, because the challenge of big data for the last five years as John and I both know, is that a lot of people conflated. The outcome of data science, the outcome of big data, with the process of standing up clusters, and lining up Hadoop, and if they failed on the infrastructure, they said it was a failure overall. So how you making the infrastructure really simple, and line up with this time of value? >> Well, the reality is, we all need food and water. IT still needs server and storage in order to work. But at the end of the day, the abstraction has to be there just like VMware in the early days, clouds, containers with BlueData is just another way to create a layer of abstraction. But this one is in the context of what the data scientist is trying to get done, and that's the key to why we partnered with BlueData and why we delivered big data as a service. >> So at that point, what's the update from Dell EMC and Dell, in particular, Analytics? Obviously you guys work with a lot of customers, have challenges, how are you solving those problems? What are those problems? Because we know there's some AI rumors, big Dell event coming up, there's rumors of a lot of AI involved, I'm speculating there's going to be probably a new kind of hardware device and software. What's the state of the analytics today? >> I think a lot of the customers we talked about, they were born in that batch processing, that Hadoop space we just talked about. I think they largely got that right, they've largely got that figured out, but now we're seeing proliferation of AI tools, proliferation of sandbox environments, and you're psyched to see a little bit of silo behavior happening, so what we're trying to do is that IT shop is trying to dispatch those environments, dispatch with some speed, with some agility. They want to have it at the right economic model as well, so we're trying to strike a better balance, say 'Hey, I've invested in all this infrastructure already, I need to modernize it, and that I also need to offer it up in a way that data scientists can consume it'. Oh, by the way, we're starting to see them start to hire more and more of these data scientists. Well, you don't want your data scientists, this very expensive, intelligent resource, sitting there doing data mining, data cleansing, detail offloads, we want them actually doing modeling and analytics. So we find that a lot of times right now as you're doing an operational change, the operational mindset as you're starting to hire these very expensive people to do this very good work, at the corest of the data, but they need to get productive in the way that you hired them to be productive. >> So what is this ready solution, can you just explain what that is? Is it a program, is it a hardware, is it a solution? What is the ready solution? >> Generally speaking, what we do as a division is we look for value workloads, just generally speaking, not necessarily in batch processing, or AI, or applications, and we try and create an environment that solves that customer challenge, typically they're very complex, SAP, Oracle Database, it's AI, my goodness. Very difficult. >> Variety of tools, using hives, no sequel, all this stuff's going on. >> Cassandra, you've got Tensorflow, so we try fit together a set of knowledge experts, that's the key, the intellectual property of our engineers, and their deep knowledge expertise in a certain area. So for AI, we have a sight of them back at the shop, they're in the lab, and this is what they do, and they're serving up these models, they're putting data through its paces, they're doing the work of a data scientist. They are data scientists. >> And so this is where BlueData comes in. You guys are part of this abstraction layer in the ready solutions. Offering? Is that how it works? >> Yeah, we are the software that enables the self-service experience, the multitenancy, that the consumers of the ready solution would want in terms of being able to onboard multiple different groups of users, lines of business, so you could have a user that wants to run basic spark, cluster, spark jobs, or you could have another user group that's using Tensorflow, or accelerated by a special type of CPU or GPU, and so you can have them all on the same infrastructure. >> One of the things Peter and I were talking about, Dave Vellante, who was here, he's at another event right now getting some content but, one of the things we observed was, we saw this awhile ago so it's not new to us but certainly we're seeing the impact at this event. Hadoop World, there's now called Strata Data NYC, is that we hear words like Kubernetes, and Multi Cloud, and Istio for the first time. At this event. This is the impact of the Cloud. The Cloud has essentially leveled the Hadoop World, certainly there's some Hadoop activity going on there, people have clusters, there's standing up infrastructure for analytical infrastructures that do analytics, obviously AI drives that, but now you have the Cloud being a power base. Changing that analytics infrastructure. How has it impacted you guys? BlueData, how are you guys impacted by the Cloud? Tailwind for you guys? Helpful? Good? >> You described it well, it is a tailwind. This space is about the data, not where the data lives necessarily, but the robustness of the data. So whether that's in the Cloud, whether that's on Premise, whether that's on Premise in your own private Cloud, I think anywhere where there's data that can be gathered, modeled, and new insights being pulled out of, this is wonderful, so as we ditched data, whether it's born in the Cloud or born on Premise, this is actually an accelerant to the solutions that we built together. >> As BlueData, we're all in on the Cloud, we support all the three major Cloud providers that was the big announcement that we made this week, we're generally available for AWS, GCP, and Azure, and, in particular, we start with customers who weren't born in the Cloud, so we're talking about some of the large financial services >> We had Barclays UK here who we nominated, they won the Cloud Era Data Impact Award, and what they're actually going through right now, is they started on Prem, they have these really packaged certified technology stacks, whether they are Cloud Era Hadoop, whether they are Anaconda for data science, and what they're trying to do right now is, they're obviously getting value from that on Premise with BlueData, and now they want to leverage the Cloud. They want to be able to extend into the Cloud. So, we as a company have made our product a hybrid Cloud-ready platform, so it can span on Prem as well as multiple Clouds, and you have the ability to move the workloads from one to the other, depending on data gravity, SLA considerations. >> Compliancy. >> I think it's one more thing, I want to test this with you guys, John, and that is, analytics is, I don't want to call it inert, or passive, but analytics has always been about getting the right data to human beings so they can make decisions, and now we're seeing, because of AI, the distinction that we draw between analytics and AI is, AI is about taking action on the data, it's about having a consequential action, as a result of the data, so in many respects, NCL, Kubernetes, a lot of these are not only do some interesting things for the infrastructure associated with big data, but they also facilitate the incorporation of new causes of applications, that act on behalf of the brand. >> Here's the other thing I'll add to it, there's a time element here. It used to be we were passive, and it was in the past, and you're trying to project forward, that's no longer the case. You can do it right now. Exactly. >> In many respects, the history of the computing industry can be drawn in this way, you focused on the past, and then with spreadsheets in the 80s and personal computing, you focused on getting everybody to agree on the future, and now, it's about getting action to happen right now. >> At the moment it happens. >> And that's why there's so much action. We're passed the set-up phase, and I think this is why we're hearing, seeing machine learning being so popular because it's like, people want to take action there's a demand, that's a signal that it's time to show where the ROI is and get action done. Clearly we see that. >> We're capitalists, right? We're all trying to figure out how to make money in these spaces. >> Certainly there's a lot of movement, and Cloud has proven that spinning up an instance concept has been a great thing, and certainly analytics. It's okay to have these workloads, but how do you tie it together? So, I want to ask you, because you guys have been involved in containers, Cloud has certainly been a tailwind, we agree with you 100 percent on that. What is the relevance of Kubernetes and Istio? You're starting to see these new trends. Kubernetes, Istio, Cupflow. Higher level microservices with all kinds of stateful and stateless dynamics. I call it API 2.0, it's a whole other generation of abstractions that are going on, that are creating some goodness for people. What is the impact, in your opinion, of Kubernetes and this new revolution? >> I think the impact of Kubernetes is, I just gave a talk here yesterday, called Hadoop-la About Kubernetes. We were thinking very deeply about this. We're thinking deeply about this. So I think Kubernetes, if you look at the genesis, it's all about stateless applications, and I think as new applications are being written folks are thinking about writing them in a manner that are decomposed, stateless, microservices, things like Cupflow. When you write it like that, Kubernetes fits in very well, and you get all the benefits of auto-scaling, and so control a pattern, and ultimately Kubernetes is this finite state machine-type model where you describe what the state should be, and it will work and crank towards making it towards that state. I think it's a little bit harder for stateful applications, and I think that's where we believe that the Kubernetes community has to do a lot more work, and folks like BlueData are going to contribute to that work which is, how do you bring stateful applications like Hadoop where there's a lot of interdependent services, they're not necessarily microservices, they're actually almost close to monolithic applications. So I think new applications, new AI ML tooling that's going to come out, they're going to be very conscious of how they're running in a Cloud world today that folks weren't aware of seven or eight years ago, so it's really going to make a huge difference. And I think things like Istio are going to make a huge difference because you can start in the cloud and maybe now expand on to Prem. So there's going to be some interesting dynamics. >> Without hopping management frameworks, absolutely. >> And this is really critical, you just nailed it. Stateful is where ML will shine, if you can then cross the chasma to the on Premise where the workloads can have state sharing. >> Right. >> Scales beautifully. It's a whole other level. >> Right. You're going to the data into the action, or the activity, you're going to have to move the processing to the data, and you want to have nonetheless, a common, seamless management development framework so that you have the choices about where you do those things. >> Absolutely. >> Great stuff. We can do a whole Cube segment just on that. We love talking about these new dynamics going on. We'll see you in CF CupCon coming up in Seattle. Great to have you guys on. Thanks, and congratulations on the relationship between BlueData and Dell EMC and Ready Solutions. This is Cube, with the Ready Solutions here. New York City, talking about big data and the impact, the future of AI, all things stateful, stateless, Cloud and all. It's theCUBE bringing you all the action. Stay with us for more after this short break.

>> Live from New York, It's the CUBE! Covering theCUBE, New York City 2018. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its Ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the live CUBE coverage here in New York City for CUBE NYC, #CubeNYC. This coverage of all things data, all things cloud, all things machine learning here in the big data realm. I'm John Furrier and Dave Vellante. We've got two great guests from Cisco. We got DD who is the Vice President of Data Center Marketing at Cisco, and Han Yang who is the Senior Product Manager at Cisco. Guys, welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming on again. >> Good to see ya. >> Thanks for having us. >> So obviously one of the things that has come up this year at the Big Data Show, used to be called Hadoop World, Strata Data, now it's called, the latest name. And obviously CUBE NYC, we changed from Big Data NYC to CUBE NYC, because there's a lot more going on. I heard hallway conversations around blockchain, cryptocurrency, Kubernetes has been said on theCUBE already at least a dozen times here today, multicloud. So you're seeing the analytical world try to be, in a way, brought into the dynamics around IT infrastructure operations, both cloud and on premises. So interesting dynamics this year, almost a dev ops kind of culture to analytics. This is a new kind of sign from this community. Your thoughts? >> Absolutely, I think data and analytics is one of those things that's pervasive. Every industry, it doesn't matter. Even at Cisco, I know we're going to talk a little more about the new AI and ML workload, but for the last few years, we've been using AI and ML techniques to improve networking, to improve security, to improve collaboration. So it's everywhere. >> You mean internally, in your own IT? >> Internally, yeah. Not just in IT, in the way we're designing our network equipment. We're storing data that's flowing through the data center, flowing in and out of clouds, and using that data to make better predictions for better networking application performance, security, what have you. >> The first topic I want to talk to you guys about is around the data center. Obviously, you do data center marketing, that's where all the action is. The cloud, obviously, has been all the buzz, people going to the cloud, but Andy Jassy's announcement at VMworld really is a validation that we're seeing, for the first time, hybrid multicloud validated. Amazon announced RDS on VMware on-premises. >> That's right. This is the first time Amazon's ever done anything of this magnitude on-premises. So this is a signal from the customers voting with their wallet that on-premises is a dynamic. The data center is where the data is, that's where the main footprint of IT is. This is important. What's the impact of that dynamic, of data center, where the data is with the option of a cloud. How does that impact data, machine learning, and the things that you guys see as relevant? >> I'll start and Han, feel free to chime in here. So I think those boundaries between this is a data center, and this a cloud, and this is campus, and this is the edge, I think those boundaries are going away. Like you said, data center is where the data is. And it's the ability of our customers to be able to capture that data, process it, curate it, and use it for insight to take decision locally. A drone is a data center that flies, and boat is a data center that floats, right? >> And a cloud is a data center that no one sees. >> That's right. So those boundaries are going away. We at Cisco see this as a continuum. It's the edge cloud continuum. The edge is exploding, right? There's just more and more devices, and those devices are cranking out more data than ever before. Like I said, it's the ability of our customers to harness the data to make more meaningful decisions. So Cisco's take on this is the new architectural approach. It starts with the network, because the network is the one piece that connects everything- every device, every edge, every individual, every cloud. There's a lot of data within the network which we're using to make better decisions. >> I've been pretty close with Cisco over the years, since '95 timeframe. I've had hundreds of meetings, some technical, some kind of business. But I've heard that term edge the network many times over the years. This is not a new concept at Cisco. Edge of the network actually means something in Cisco parlance. The edge of the network >> Yeah. >> that the packets are moving around. So again, this is not a new idea at Cisco. It's just materialized itself in a new way. >> It's not, but what's happening is the edge is just now generating so much data, and if you can use that data, convert it into insight and make decisions, that's the exciting thing. And that's why this whole thing about machine learning and artificial intelligence, it's the data that's being generated by these cameras, these sensors. So that's what is really, really interesting. >> Go ahead, please. >> One of our own studies pointed out that by 2021, there will be 847 zettabytes of information out there, but only 1.3 zettabytes will actually ever make it back to the data center. That just means an opportunity for analytics at the edge to make sense of that information before it ever makes it home. >> What were those numbers again? >> I think it was like 847 zettabytes of information. >> And how much makes it back? >> About 1.3. >> Yeah, there you go. So- >> So a huge compression- >> That confirms your research, Dave. >> We've been saying for a while now that most of the data is going to stay at the edge. There's no reason to move it back. The economics don't support it, the latency doesn't make sense. >> The network cost alone is going to kill you. >> That's right. >> I think you really want to collect it, you want to clean it, and you want to correlate it before ever sending it back. Otherwise, sending that information, of useless information, that status is wonderful. Well that's not very valuable. And 99.9 percent, "things are going well." >> Temperature hasn't changed. (laughs) >> If it really goes wrong, that's when you want to alert or send more information. How did it go bad? Why did it go bad? Those are the more insightful things that you want to send back. >> This is not just for IoT. I mean, cat pictures moving between campuses cost money too, so why not just keep them local, right? But the basic concepts of networking. This is what I want to get in my point, too. You guys have some new announcements around UCS and some of the hardware and the gear and the software. What are some of the new announcements that you're announcing here in New York, and what does it mean for customers? Because they want to know not only speeds and feeds. It's a software-driven world. How does the software relate? How does the gear work? What's the management look like? Where's the control plane? Where's the management plane? Give us all the data. >> I think the biggest issues starts from this. Data scientists, their task is to export different data sources, find out the value. But at the same time, IT is somewhat lagging behind. Because as the data scientists go from data source A to data source B, it could be 3 petabytes of difference. IT is like, 3 petabytes? That's only from Monday through Wednesday? That's a huge infrastructure requirement change. So Cisco's way to help the customer is to make sure that we're able to come out with blueprints. Blueprints enabling the IT team to scale, so that the data scientists can work beyond their own laptop. As they work through the petabytes of data that's come in from all these different sources, they're able to collaborate well together and make sense of that information. Only by scaling with IT helping the data scientists to work the scale, that's the only way they can succeed. So that's why we announced a new server. It's called a C480ML. Happens to have 8 GPUs from Nvidia inside helping customers that want to do that deep learning kind of capabilities. >> What are some of the use cases on these as products? It's got some new data capabilities. What are some of the impacts? >> Some of the things that Han just mentioned. For me, I think the biggest differentiation in our solution is things that we put around the box. So the management layer, right? I mean, this is not going to be one server and one data center. It's going to be multiple of them. You're never going to have one data center. You're going to have multiple data centers. And we've got a really cool management tool called Intersight, and this is supported in Intersight, day one. And Intersight also uses machine learning techniques to look at data from multiple data centers. And that's really where the innovation is. Honestly, I think every vendor is bend sheet metal around the latest chipset, and we've done the same. But the real differentiation is how we manage it, how we use the data for more meaningful insight. I think that's where some of our magic is. >> Can you add some code to that, in terms of infrastructure for AI and ML, how is it different than traditional infrastructures? So is the management different? The sheet metal is not different, you're saying. But what are some of those nuances that we should understand. >> I think especially for deep learning, multiple scientists around the world have pointed that if you're able to use GPUs, they're able to run the deep learning frameworks faster by roughly two waters magnitude. So that's part of the reason why, from an infrastructure perspective, we want to bring in that GPUs. But for the IT teams, we didn't want them to just add yet another infrastructure silo just to support AI or ML. Therefore, we wanted to make sure it fits in with a UCS-managed unified architecture, enabling the IT team to scale but without adding more infrastructures and silos just for that new workload. But having that unified architecture, it helps the IT to be more efficient and, at the same time, is better support of the data scientists. >> The other thing I would add is, again, the things around the box. Look, this industry is still pretty nascent. There is lots of start-ups, there is lots of different solutions, and when we build a server like this, we don't just build a server and toss it over the fence to the customer and say "figure it out." No, we've done validated design guides. With Google, with some of the leading vendors in the space to make sure that everything works as we say it would. And so it's all of those integrations, those partnerships, all the way through our systems integrators, to really understand a customer's AI and ML environment and can fine tune it for the environment. >> So is that really where a lot of the innovation comes from? Doing that hard work to say, "yes, it's going to be a solution that's going to work in this environment. Here's what you have to do to ensure best practice," etc.? Is that right? >> So I think some of our blueprints or validated designs is basically enabling the IT team to scale. Scale their stores, scale their CPU, scale their GPU, and scale their network. But do it in a way so that we work with partners like Hortonworks or Cloudera. So that they're able to take advantage of the data lake. And adding in the GPU so they're able to do the deep learning with Tensorflow, with Pytorch, or whatever curated deep learning framework the data scientists need to be able to get value out of those multiple data sources. These are the kind of solutions that we're putting together, making sure our customers are able to get to that business outcome sooner and faster, not just a-- >> Right, so there's innovation at all altitudes. There's the hardware, there's the integrations, there's the management. So it's innovation. >> So not to go too much into the weeds, but I'm curious. As you introduce these alternate processing units, what is the relationship between traditional CPUs and these GPUs? Are you managing them differently, kind of communicating somehow, or are they sort of fenced off architecturally. I wonder if you could describe that. >> We actually want it to be integrated, because by having it separated and fenced off, well that's an IT infrastructure silo. You're not going to have the same security policy or the storage mechanisms. We want it to be unified so it's easier on IT teams to support the data scientists. So therefore, the latest software is able to manage both CPUs and GPUs, as well as having a new file system. Those are the solutions that we're putting forth, so that ARC-IT folks can scale, our data scientists can succeed. >> So IT's managing a logical block. >> That's right. And even for things like inventory management, or going back and adding patches in the event of some security event, it's so much better to have one integrated system rather than silos of management, which we see in the industry. >> So the hard news is basically UCS for AI and ML workloads? >> That's right. This is our first server custom built ground up to support these deep learning, machine learning workloads. We partnered with Nvidia, with Google. We announced earlier this week, and the phone is ringing constantly. >> I don't want to say godbot. I just said it. (laughs) This is basically the power tool for deep learning. >> Absolutely. >> That's how you guys see it. Well, great. Thanks for coming out. Appreciate it, good to see you guys at Cisco. Again, deep learning dedicated technology around the box, not just the box itself. Ecosystem, Nvidia, good call. Those guys really get the hot GPUs out there. Saw those guys last night, great success they're having. They're a key partner with you guys. >> Absolutely. >> Who else is partnering, real quick before we end the segment? >> We've been partnering with software sci, we partner with folks like Anaconda, with their Anaconda Enterprise, which data scientists love to use as their Python data science framework. We're working with Google, with their Kubeflow, which is open source project integrating Tensorflow on top of Kubernetes. And of course we've been working with folks like Caldera as well as Hortonworks to access the data lake from a big data perspective. >> Yeah, I know you guys didn't get a lot of credit. Google Cloud, we were certainly amplifying it. You guys were co-developing the Google Cloud servers with Google. I know they were announcing it, and you guys had Chuck on stage there with Diane Greene, so it was pretty positive. Good integration with Google can make a >> Absolutely. >> Thanks for coming on theCUBE, thanks, we appreciate the commentary. Cisco here on theCUBE. We're in New York City for theCUBE NYC. This is where the world of data is converging in with IT infrastructure, developers, operators, all running analytics for future business. We'll be back with more coverage, after this short break. (upbeat digital music)

>> Live from New York, It's theCUBE! Covering theCUBE New York City 2018. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE live in New York City, here for CUBE NYC. In conjunct with Strata Conference, Strata Data, Strata Hadoop This is our ninth year covering the big data ecosystem which has evolved into machine learning, A.I., data science, cloud, a lot of great things happening all things data, impacting all businesses I'm John Furrier, your host with Dave Vellante and Peter Burris, Peter is filling in for Dave Vellante. Next guest, Stephanie McReynolds who is the CMO, VP of Marketing for Alation, thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> Good to see you. So you guys have a pretty spectacular exhibit here in New York. I want to get to that right away, top story is Attack of the Bots. And you're showing a great demo. Explain what you guys are doing in the show. >> Yah, well it's robot fighting time in our booth, so we brought a little fun to the show floor my kids are.. >> You mean big data is not fun enough? >> Well big data is pretty fun but occasionally you got to get your geek battle on there so we're having fun with robots but I think the real story in the Alation booth is about the product and how machine learning data catalogs are helping a whole variety of users in the organization everything from improving analyst productivity and even some business user productivity of data to then really supporting data scientists in their work by helping them to distribute their data products through a data catalog. >> You guys are one of the new guard companies that are doing things that make it really easy for people who want to use data, practitioners that the average data citizen has been called, or people who want productivity. Not necessarily the hardcore, setting up clusters, really kind of like the big data user. What's that market look like right now, has it met your expectations, how's business, what's the update? >> Yah, I think we have a strong perspective that for us to close the final mile and get to real value out of the data, it's a human challenge, there's a trust gap with managers. Today on stage over at STRATA it was interesting because Google had a speaker and it wasn't their chief data officer it was their chief decision scientist and I think that reflects what that final mile is is that making decisions and it's the trust gap that managers have with data because they don't know how the insides are coming to them, what are all the details underneath. In order to be able to trust decisions you have to understand who processed the data, what decision making criteria did they use, was this data governed well, are we introducing some bias into our algorithms, and can that be controlled? And so Alation becomes a platform for supporting getting answers to those issues. And then there's plenty of other companies that are optimizing the performance of those QUERYS and the storage of that data, but we're trying to really to close that trust gap. >> It's very interesting because from a management standpoint we're trying to do more evidence based management. So there's a major trend in board rooms, and executive offices to try to find ways to acculturate the executive team to using data, evidence based management healthcare now being applied to a lot of other domains. We've also historically had a situation where the people who focused or worked with the data was a relatively small coterie of individuals that crave these crazy systems to try to bring those two together. It sounds like what you're doing, and I really like the idea of the data scientists, being able to create data products that then can be distributed. It sounds like you're trying to look at data as an asset to be created, to be distributed so they can be more easily used by more people in your organization, have we got that right? >> Absolutely. So we're now seeing we're in just over a hundred production implementations of Alation, at large enterprises, and we're now seeing those production implementations get into the thousands of users. So this is going beyond those data specialists. Beyond the unicorn data scientists that understand the systems and math and technology. >> And business. >> And business, right. In business. So what we're seeing now is that a data catalog can be a point of collaboration across those different audiences in an enterprise. So whereas three years ago some of our initial customers kept the data catalog implementations small, right. They were getting access to the specialists to this catalog and asked them to certify data assets for others, what were starting to see is a proliferation of creation of self service data assets, a certification process that now is enterprise-wide, and thousands of users in these organizations. So Ebay has over a thousand weekly logins, Munich Reinsurance was on stage yesterday, their head of data engineering said they have 2,000 users on Alation at this point on their data lake, Fiserv is going to speak on Thursday and they're getting up to those numbers as well, so we see some really solid organizations that are solving medical, pharmaceutical issues, right, the largest re insurer in the world leading tech companies, starting to adopt a data catalog as a foundation for how their going to make those data driven decisions in the organization. >> Talk about how the product works because essentially you're bringing kind of the decision scientists, for lack of a better word, and productivity worker, almost like a business office suite concept, as a SAS, so you got a SAS model that says "Hey you want to play with data, use it but you have to do some front end work." Take us through how you guys roll out the platform, how are your customers consuming the service, take us through the engagement with customers. >> I think for customers, the most interesting part of this product is that it displays itself as an application that anyone can use, right? So there's a super familiar search interface that, rather than bringing back webpages, allows you to search for data assets in your organization. If you want more information on that data asset you click on those search results and you can see all of the information of how that data has been used in the organization, as well as the technical details and the technical metadata. And I think what's even more powerful is we actually have a recommendation engine that recommends data assets to the user. And that can be plugged into Tablo and Salesworth, Einstein Analytics, and a whole variety of other data science tools like Data Haiku that you might be using in your organization. So this looks like a very easy to use application that folks are familiar with that you just need a web browser to access, but on the backend, the hard work that's happening is the automation that we do with the platform. So by going out and crawling these source systems and looking at not just the technical descriptions of data, the metadata that exists, but then being able to understand by parsing the sequel weblogs, how that data is actually being used in the organization. We call it behavior I.O. by looking at the behaviors of how that data's being used, from those logs, we can actually give you a really good sense of how that data should be used in the future or where you might have gaps in governing that data or how you might want to reorient your storage or compute infrastructure to support the type of analytics that are actually being executed by real humans in your organization. And that's eye opening to a lot of I.T. sources. >> So you're providing insights to the data usage so that the business could get optimized for whether it's I.T. footprint component, or kinds of use cases, is that kind of how it's working? >> So what's interesting is the optimization actually happens in a pretty automated way, because we can make recommendations to those consumers of data of how they want to navigate the system. Kind of like Google makes recommendations as you browse the web, right? >> If you misspell something, "Oh did you mean this", kind of thing? >> "Did you mean this, might you also be interested in this", right? It's kind of a cross between Google and Amazon. Others like you may have used these other data assets in the past to determine revenue for that particular region, have you thought about using this filter, have you thought about using this join, did you know that you're trying to do analysis that maybe the sales ops guy has already done, and here's the certified report, why don't you just start with that? We're seeing a lot of reuse in organizations, wherein the past I think as an industry when Tablo and Click and all these B.I tools that were very self service oriented started to take off it was all about democratizing visualization by letting every user do their own thing and now we're realizing to get speed and accuracy and efficiency and effectiveness maybe there's more reuse of the work we've already done in existing data assets and by recommending those and expanding the data literacy around the interpretation of those, you might actually close this trust gap with the data. >> But there's one really important point that you raised, and I want to come back to it, and that is this notion of bias. So you know, Alation knows something about the data, knows a lot about the metadata, so therefore, I don't want to say understands, but it's capable of categorizing data in that way. And you're also able to look at the usage of that data by parsing some of sequel statements and then making a determination of the data as it's identified is appropriately being used based on how people are actually applying it so you can identify potential bias or potential misuse or whatever else it might be. That is an incredibly important thing. As you know John, we had an event last night and one of the things that popped up is how do you deal with emergence in data science in A.I, etc. And what methods do you put in place to actually ensure that the governance model can be extended to understand how those things are potentially in a very soft way, corrupting the use of the data. So could you spend a little bit more time talking about that because it's something a lot of people are interested in, quite frankly we don't know about a lot of tools that are doing that kind of work right now. It's an important point. >> I think the traditional viewpoint was if we just can manage the data we will be able to have a govern system. So if we control the inputs then well have a safe environment, and that was kind of like the classic single source of truth, data warehouse type model. >> Stewards of the data. >> What we're seeing is with the proliferation of sources of data and how quickly with IOT and new modern sources, data is getting created, you're not able to manage data at that point of that entry point. And it's not just about systems, it's about individuals that go on the web and find a dataset and then load it into a corporate database, right? Or you merge an Excel file with something that in a database. And so I think what we see happening, not only when you look at bias but if you look at some of the new regulations like [Inaudible] >> Sure. Ownership, [Inaudible] >> The logic that you're using to process that data, the algorithm itself can be biased, if you have a biased training data site that you feed it into a machine learning algorithm, the algorithm itself is going to be biased. And so the control point in this world where data is proliferating and we're not sure we can control that entirely, becomes the logic embedded in the algorithm. Even if that's a simple sequel statement that's feeding a report. And so Alation is able to introspect that sequel and highlight that maybe there is bias at work and how this algorithm is composed. So with GDPR the consumer owns their own data, if they want to pull it out from a training data set, you got to rerun that algorithm without that consumer data and that's your control point then going forward for the organization on different governance issues that pop up. >> Talk about the psychology of the user base because one of the things that shifted in the data world is a few stewards of data managed everything, now you've got a model where literally thousands of people of an organization could be users, productivity users, so you get a social component in here that people know who's doing data work, which in a way, creates a new persona or class of worker. A non techy worker. >> Yeah. It's interesting if you think about moving access to the data and moving the individuals that are creating algorithms out to a broader user group, what's important, you have to make sure that you're educating and training and sharing knowledge with that democratized audience, right? And to be able to do that you kind of want to work with human psychology, right? You want to be able to give people guidance in the course of their work rather than have them memorize a set of rules and try to remember to apply those. If you had a specialist group you can kind of control and force them to memorize and then apply, the more modern approach is to say "look, with some of these machine learning techniques that we have, why don't we make a recommendation." What you're going to do is introduce bias into that calculation. >> And we're capturing that information as you use the data. >> Well were also making a recommendation to say "Hey do you know you're doing this? Maybe you don't want to do that." Most people are using the data are not bad actors. They just can't remember all the rule sets to apply. So what were trying to do is cut someone behaviorally in the act before they make that mistake and say hey just a bit of a reminder, a bit of a coaching moment, did you know what you're doing? Maybe you can think of another approach to this. And we've found that many organizations that changes the discussion around data governance. It's no longer this top down constraint to finding insight, which frustrates an audience, is trying to use that data. It's more like a coach helping you improve and then social aspect of wanting to contribute to the system comes into play and people start communicating, collaborating, the platform and curating information a little bit. >> I remember when Microsoft Excel came out, the spreadsheet, or Lotus 123, oh my God, people are going to use these amazing things with spreadsheets, they did. You're taking a similar approach with analytics, much bigger surface area of work to kind of attack from a data perspective, but in a way kind of the same kind of concept, put the hands of the users, have the data in their hands so to speak. >> Yeah, enable everyone to make data driven decisions. But make sure that they're interpreting that data in the right way, right? Give them enough guidance, don't let them just kind of attack the wild west and fair it out. >> Well looking back at the Microsoft Excel spreadsheet example, I remember when a finance department would send a formatted spreadsheet with all the rules for how to use it out of 50 different groups around the world, and everyone figured out that you can go in and manipulate the macros and deliver any results they want. And so it's that same notion, you have to know something about that, but this site, in many respects Stephanie you're describing a data governance model that really is more truly governance, that if we think about a data asset it's how do we mediate a lot of different claims against that set of data so that its used appropriately, so its not corrupted, so that it doesn't effect other people, but very importantly so that the out6comes are easier to agree upon because there's some trust and there's some valid behaviors and there's some verification in the flow of the data utilization. >> And where we give voice to a number of different constituencies. Because business opinions from different departments can run slightly counter to one another. There can be friction in how to use particular data assets in the business depending on the lens that you have in that business and so what were trying to do is surface those different perspectives, give them voice, allow those constituencies to work that out in a platform that captures that debate, captures that knowledge, makes that debate a knowledge of foundation to build upon so in many ways its kind of like the scientific method, right? As a scientist I publish a paper. >> Get peer reviewed. >> Get peer reviewed, let other people weigh in. >> And it becomes part of the canon of knowledge. >> And it becomes part of the canon. And in the scientific community over the last several years you see that folks are publishing their data sets out publicly, why can't an enterprise do the same thing internally for different business groups internally. Take the same approach. Allow others to weigh in. It gets them better insights and it gets them more trust in that foundation. >> You get collective intelligence from the user base to help come in and make the data smarter and sharper. >> Yeah and have reusable assets that you can then build upon to find the higher level insights. Don't run the same report that a hundred people in the organization have already run. >> So the final question for you. As you guys are emerging, starting to do really well, you have a unique approach, honestly we think it fits in kind of the new guard of analytics, a productivity worker with data, which is we think is going to be a huge persona, where are you guys winning, and why are you winning with your customer base? What are some things that are resonating as you go in and engage with prospects and customers and existing customers? What are they attracted to, what are they like, and why are you beating the competition in your sales and opportunities? >> I think this concept of a more agile, grassroots approach to data governance is a breath of fresh air for anyone who spend their career in the data space. Were at a turning point in industry where you're now seeing chief decision scientists, chief data officers, chief analytic officers take a leadership role in organizations. Munich Reinsurance is using their data team to actually invest and hold new arms of their business. That's how they're pushing the envelope on leadership in the insurance space and were seeing that across our install base. Alation becomes this knowledge repository for all of those mines in the organization, and encourages a community to be built around data and insightful questions of data. And in that way the whole organization raises to the next level and I think its that vision of what can be created internally, how we can move away from just claiming that were a big data organization and really starting to see the impact of how new business models can be creative in these data assets, that's exciting to our customer base. >> Well congratulations. A hot start up. Alation here on theCUBE in New York City for cubeNYC. Changing the game on analytics, bringing a breath of fresh air to hands of the users. A new persona developing. Congratulations, great to have you. Stephanie McReynolds. Its the cube. Stay with us for more live coverage, day one of two days live in New York City. We'll be right back.

>> Live from New York, it's theCUBE covering theCUBE New York City 2018. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. (techy music) >> Hello, everyone, welcome to this CUBE special presentation here in New York City for CUBENYC. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. This is our ninth year covering the big data industry, starting with Hadoop World and evolved over the years. This is our ninth year, Dave. We've been covering Hadoop World, Hadoop Summit, Strata Conference, Strata Hadoop. Now it's called Strata Data, I don't know what Strata O'Reilly's going to call it next. As you all know, theCUBE has been present for the creation at the Hadoop big data ecosystem. We're here for our ninth year, certainly a lot's changed. AI's the center of the conversation, and certainly we've seen some horses come in, some haven't come in, and trends have emerged, some gone away, your thoughts. Nine years covering big data. >> Well, John, I remember fondly, vividly, the call that I got. I was in Dallas at a storage networking world show and you called and said, "Hey, we're doing "Hadoop World, get over there," and of course, Hadoop, big data, was the new, hot thing. I told everybody, "I'm leaving." Most of the people said, "What's Hadoop?" Right, so we came, we started covering, it was people like Jeff Hammerbacher, Amr Awadallah, Doug Cutting, who invented Hadoop, Mike Olson, you know, head of Cloudera at the time, and people like Abi Mehda, who at the time was at B of A, and some of the things we learned then that were profound-- >> Yeah. >> As much as Hadoop is sort of on the back burner now and people really aren't talking about it, some of the things that are profound about Hadoop, really, were the idea, the notion of bringing five megabytes of code to a petabyte of data, for example, or the notion of no schema on write. You know, put it into the database and then figure it out. >> Unstructured data. >> Right. >> Object storage. >> And so, that created a state of innovation, of funding. We were talking last night about, you know, many, many years ago at this event this time of the year, concurrent with Strata you would have VCs all over the place. There really aren't a lot of VCs here this year, not a lot of VC parties-- >> Mm-hm. >> As there used to be, so that somewhat waned, but some of the things that we talked about back then, we said that big money and big data is going to be made by the practitioners, not by the vendors, and that's proved true. I mean... >> Yeah. >> The big three Hadoop distro vendors, Cloudera, Hortonworks, and MapR, you know, Cloudera's $2.5 billion valuation, you know, not bad, but it's not a $30, $40 billion value company. The other thing we said is there will be no Red Hat of big data. You said, "Well, the only Red Hat of big data might be "Red Hat," and so, (chuckles) that's basically proved true. >> Yeah. >> And so, I think if we look back we always talked about Hadoop and big data being a reduction, the ROI was a reduction on investment. >> Yeah. >> It was a way to have a cheaper data warehouse, and that's essentially-- Well, what did we get right and wrong? I mean, let's look at some of the trends. I mean, first of all, I think we got pretty much everything right, as you know. We tend to make the calls pretty accurately with theCUBE. Got a lot of data, we look, we have the analytics in our own system, plus we have the research team digging in, so you know, we pretty much get, do a good job. I think one thing that we predicted was that Hadoop certainly would change the game, and that did. We also predicted that there wouldn't be a Red Hat for Hadoop, that was a production. The other prediction was is that we said Hadoop won't kill data warehouses, it didn't, and then data lakes came along. You know my position on data lakes. >> Yeah. >> I've always hated the term. I always liked data ocean because I think it was much more fluidity of the data, so I think we got that one right and data lakes still doesn't look like it's going to be panning out well. I mean, most people that deploy data lakes, it's really either not a core thing or as part of something else and it's turning into a data swamp, so I think the data lake piece is not panning out the way it, people thought it would be. I think one thing we did get right, also, is that data would be the center of the value proposition, and it continues and remains to be, and I think we're seeing that now, and we said data's the development kit back in 2010 when we said data's going to be part of programming. >> Some of the other things, our early data, and we went out and we talked to a lot of practitioners who are the, it was hard to find in the early days. They were just a select few, I mean, other than inside of Google and Yahoo! But what they told us is that things like SQL and the enterprise data warehouse were key components on their big data strategy, so to your point, you know, it wasn't going to kill the EDW, but it was going to surround it. The other thing we called was cloud. Four years ago our data showed clearly that much of this work, the modeling, the big data wrangling, et cetera, was being done in the cloud, and Cloudera, Hortonworks, and MapR, none of them at the time really had a cloud strategy. Today that's all they're talking about is cloud and hybrid cloud. >> Well, it's interesting, I think it was like four years ago, I think, Dave, when we actually were riffing on the notion of, you know, Cloudera's name. It's called Cloudera, you know. If you spell it out, in Cloudera we're in a cloud era, and I think we were very aggressive at that point. I think Amr Awadallah even made a comment on Twitter. He was like, "I don't understand "where you guys are coming from." We were actually saying at the time that Cloudera should actually leverage more cloud at that time, and they didn't. They stayed on their IPO track and they had to because they had everything betted on Impala and this data model that they had and being the business model, and then they went public, but I think clearly cloud is now part of Cloudera's story, and I think that's a good call, and it's not too late for them. It never was too late, but you know, Cloudera has executed. I mean, if you look at what's happened with Cloudera, they were the only game in town. When we started theCUBE we were in their office, as most people know in this industry, that we were there with Cloudera when they had like 17 employees. I thought Cloudera was going to run the table, but then what happened was Hortonworks came out of the Yahoo! That, I think, changed the game and I think in that competitive battle between Hortonworks and Cloudera, in my opinion, changed the industry, because if Hortonworks did not come out of Yahoo! Cloudera would've had an uncontested run. I think the landscape of the ecosystem would look completely different had Hortonworks not competed, because you think about, Dave, they had that competitive battle for years. The Hortonworks-Cloudera battle, and I think it changed the industry. I think it couldn't been a different outcome. If Hortonworks wasn't there, I think Cloudera probably would've taken Hadoop and making it so much more, and I think they wouldn't gotten more done. >> Yeah, and I think the other point we have to make here is complexity really hurt the Hadoop ecosystem, and it was just bespoke, new projects coming out all the time, and you had Cloudera, Hortonworks, and maybe to a lesser extent MapR, doing a lot of the heavy lifting, particularly, you know, Hortonworks and Cloudera. They had to invest a lot of their R&D in making these systems work and integrating them, and you know, complexity just really broke the back of the Hadoop ecosystem, and so then Spark came in, everybody said, "Oh, Spark's going to basically replace Hadoop." You know, yes and no, the people who got Hadoop right, you know, embraced it and they still use it. Spark definitely simplified things, but now the conversation has turned to AI, John. So, I got to ask you, I'm going to use your line on you in kind of the ask-me-anything segment here. AI, is it same wine, new bottle, or is it really substantively different in your opinion? >> I think it's substantively different. I don't think it's the same wine in a new bottle. I'll tell you... Well, it's kind of, it's like the bad wine... (laughs) Is going to be kind of blended in with the good wine, which is now AI. If you look at this industry, the big data industry, if you look at what O'Reilly did with this conference. I think O'Reilly really has not done a good job with the conference of big data. I think they blew it, I think that they made it a, you know, monetization, closed system when the big data business could've been all about AI in a much deeper way. I think AI is subordinate to cloud, and you mentioned cloud earlier. If you look at all the action within the AI segment, Diane Greene talking about it at Google Next, Amazon, AI is a software layer substrate that will be underpinned by the cloud. Cloud will drive more action, you need more compute, that drives more data, more data drives the machine learning, machine learning drives the AI, so I think AI is always going to be dependent upon cloud ends or some sort of high compute resource base, and all the cloud analytics are feeding into these AI models, so I think cloud takes over AI, no doubt, and I think this whole ecosystem of big data gets subsumed under either an AWS, VMworld, Google, and Microsoft Cloud show, and then also I think specialization around data science is going to go off on its own. So, I think you're going to see the breakup of the big data industry as we know it today. Strata Hadoop, Strata Data Conference, that thing's going to crumble into multiple, fractured ecosystems. >> It's already starting to be forked. I think the other thing I want to say about Hadoop is that it actually brought such great awareness to the notion of data, putting data at the core of your company, data and data value, the ability to understand how data at least contributes to the monetization of your company. AI would not be possible without the data. Right, and we've talked about this before. You call it the innovation sandwich. The innovation sandwich, last decade, last three decades, has been Moore's law. The innovation sandwich going forward is data, machine intelligence applied to that data, and cloud for scale, and that's the sandwich of innovation over the next 10 to 20 years. >> Yeah, and I think data is everywhere, so this idea of being a categorical industry segment is a little bit off, I mean, although I know data warehouse is kind of its own category and you're seeing that, but I don't think it's like a Magic Quadrant anymore. Every quadrant has data. >> Mm-hm. >> So, I think data's fundamental, and I think that's why it's going to become a layer within a control plane of either cloud or some other system, I think. I think that's pretty clear, there's no, like, one. You can't buy big data, you can't buy AI. I think you can have AI, you know, things like TensorFlow, but it's going to be a completely... Every layer of the stack is going to be impacted by AI and data. >> And I think the big players are going to infuse their applications and their databases with machine intelligence. You're going to see this, you're certainly, you know, seeing it with IBM, the sort of Watson heavy lift. Clearly Google, Amazon, you know, Facebook, Alibaba, and Microsoft, they're infusing AI throughout their entire set of cloud services and applications and infrastructure, and I think that's good news for the practitioners. People aren't... Most companies aren't going to build their own AI, they're going to buy AI, and that's how they close the gap between the sort of data haves and the data have-nots, and again, I want to emphasize that the fundamental difference, to me anyway, is having data at the core. If you look at the top five companies in terms of market value, US companies, Facebook maybe not so much anymore because of the fake news, though Facebook will be back with it's two billion users, but Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon, who am I... And Microsoft, those five have put data at the core and they're the most valuable companies in the stock market from a market cap standpoint, why? Because it's a recognition that that intangible value of the data is actually quite valuable, and even though banks and financial institutions are data companies, their data lives in silos. So, these five have put data at the center, surrounded it with human expertise, as opposed to having humans at the center and having data all over the place. So, how do they, how do these companies close the gap? How do the companies in the flyover states close the gap? The way they close the gap, in my view, is they buy technologies that have AI infused in it, and I think the last thing I'll say is I see cloud as the substrate, and AI, and blockchain and other services, as the automation layer on top of it. I think that's going to be the big tailwind for innovation over the next decade. >> Yeah, and obviously the theme of machine learning drives a lot of the conversations here, and that's essentially never going to go away. Machine learning is the core of AI, and I would argue that AI truly doesn't even exist yet. It's machine learning really driving the value, but to put a validation on the fact that cloud is going to be driving AI business is some of the terms in popular conversations we're hearing here in New York around this event and topic, CUBENYC and Strata Conference, is you're hearing Kubernetes and blockchain, and you know, these automation, AI operation kind of conversations. That's an IT conversation, (chuckles) so you know, that's interesting. You've got IT, really, with storage. You've got to store the data, so you can't not talk about workloads and how the data moves with workloads, so you're starting to see data and workloads kind of be tossed in the same conversation, that's a cloud conversation. That is all about multi-cloud. That's why you're seeing Kubernetes, a term I never thought I would be saying at a big data show, but Kubernetes is going to be key for moving workloads around, of which there's data involved. (chuckles) Instrumenting the workloads, data inside the workloads, data driving data. This is where AI and machine learning's going to play, so again, cloud subsumes AI, that's the story, and I think that's going to be the big trend. >> Well, and I think you're right, now. I mean, that's why you're hearing the messaging of hybrid cloud and from the big distro vendors, and the other thing is you're hearing from a lot of the no-SQL database guys, they're bringing ACID compliance, they're bringing enterprise-grade capability, so you're seeing the world is hybrid. You're seeing those two worlds come together, so... >> Their worlds, it's getting leveled in the playing field out there. It's all about enterprise, B2B, AI, cloud, and data. That's theCUBE bringing you the data here. New York City, CUBENYC, that's the hashtag. Stay with us for more coverage live in New York after this short break. (techy music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Jose, it's theCUBE. Presenting Big Data, Silicon Valley. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi, I'm George Gilbert, and we are broadcasting from the Strata Data Conference, we're right around the corner at the Forager Tasting Room & Eatery. We have this wonderful location here, and we are very lucky to have with us Michael Nixon, from Snowflake, which is a leading cloud data warehouse. And David Abercrombie from Sharethrough which is a leading ad tech company. And between the two of them, they're going to tell us some of the most advance these cases we have now for cloud-native data warehousing. Michael, why don't you start with giving us some context for how on a cloud platform one might rethink a data warehouse? >> Yeah, thank you. That's a great question because let me first answer it from the end-user, business value perspective, when you run a workload on a cloud, there's a certain level of expectation you want out of the cloud. You want scalability, you want unlimited scalability, you want to be able to support all your users, you want to be able to support the data types, whatever they may be that comes in into your organization. So, there's a level of expectation that one should expect from a service point of view once you're in a cloud. So, a lot of the technology that were built up to this point have been optimized for on-premises types of data warehousing where perhaps that level of service and currency and unlimited scalability was not really expected but, guess what? Once it comes to the cloud, it's expected. So those on-premises technologies aren't suitable in the cloud, so for enterprises and, I mean, companies, organizations of all types from finance, banking, manufacturing, ad tech as we'll have today, they want that level of service in the cloud. And so, those technologies will not work, and so it requires a rethinking of how those architectures are built. And it requires being built for the cloud. >> And just to, alright, to break this down and be really concrete, some of the rethinking. We separate compute from storage, which is a familiar pattern that we've learned in the cloud but we also then have to have this sort of independent elasticity between-- >> Yes. Storage and the compute, and then Snowflake's taken it even a step further where you can spin out multiple compute clusters. >> Right. >> Tell us how that works and why that's so difficult and unique. >> Yeah, you know, that's taking us under the covers a little bit, but what makes our infrastructure unique is that we have a three-layer architecture. We separate, just as you said, storage from the compute layer, from the services layer. And that's really important because as I mentioned before, you want unlimited capacity, unlimited resources. So, if you scale, compute, and today's world on on-premises MPP, what that really means is that you have to bring the storage along with the compute because compute is tied to the storage so when you scale the storage along with the compute, usually that involves a lot of burden on the data warehouse manager because now they have to redistribute the data and that means redistributing keys, managing keys if you will. And that's a burden, and by the reverse, if all you wanted to do was increase storage but not the compute, because compute was tied to storage. Why you have to buy these additional compute notes, and that might add to the cost when, in fact, all you really wanted to pay for was for additional storage? So, by separating those, you keep them independent, and so you can scale storage apart from compute and then, once you have your compute resources in place, the virtual warehouses that you're talking about that have completed the job, you spun them up, it's done its job, and you take it down, guess what? You can release those resources, and of course, in releasing those resources, basically you can cut your cost as well because, for us, it's pure usage-based pricing. You only pay for what you use, and that's really fantastic. >> Very different from the on-prem model where, as you were saying, tied compute and storage together, so. >> Yeah, let's think about what that means architecturally, right? So if you have an on-premises data warehouse, and you want to scale your capacity, chances are you'll have to have that hardware in place already. And having that hardware in place already means you're paying that expense and, so you may pay for that expense six months prior to need it. Let's take a retailer example. >> Yeah. >> You're gearing up for a peak season, which might be Christmas, and so you put that hardware in place sometime in June, you'll always put it in advanced because why? You have to bring up the environment, so you have to allow time for implementation or, if you will, deployment to make sure everything is operational. >> Okay. >> And then what happens is when that peak period comes, you can't expand in that capacity. But what happens once that peak period is over? You paid for that hardware, but you don't really need it. So, our vision is, or the vision we believe you should have when you move workloads to the cloud is, you pay for those when you need them. >> Okay, so now, David, help us understand, first, what was the business problem you were trying to solve? And why was Snowflake, you know, sort of uniquely suited for that? >> Well, let me talk a little bit about Sharethrough. We're ad tech, at the core of our business we run an ad exchange, where we're doing programmatic training with the bids, with the real-time bidding spec. The data is very high in volume, with 12 billion impressions a month, that's a lot of bids that we have to process, a lot of bid requests. The way it operates, the bids and the bid responses and programmatic training are encoded in JSONs, so our ad exchange is basically exchanging messages in JSON with our business partners. And the JSONs are very complicated, there's a lot of richness and detail, such that the advertisers can decide whether or not they want to bid. Well, this data is very complicated, very high-volume. And advertising, like any business, we really need to have good analytics to understand how our business is operating, how our publishers are doing, how our advertisers are doing. And it all depends upon this very high-volume, very complex JSON event data stream. So, Snowflake was able to ingest our high-volume data very gracefully. The JSON parsing techniques of Snowflake allow me to expose the complicated data structure in a way that's very transparent and usable to our analysts. Our use of Snowflake has replaced clunkier tools where the analysts basically had to be programmers, writing programs in Scala or something to do in analysis. And now, because we've transparently and easily exposed the complicated structures within Snowflake in a relational database, they can use good old-fashioned SQL to run their queries, literally, afternoon analysis is now a five-minute query. >> So, let me, as I'm listening to you describe this. We've had various vendors telling us about these workflows in the sort of data prep and data science tool change. It almost sounds to me like Snowflake is taking semi-structured or complex data and it's sort of unraveling it and normalizing is kind of an overloaded term but it's making it business-ready, so you don't need as much of that manual data prep. >> Yeah, exactly, you don't need as much manual data prep, or you don't need as much expertise. For instance, Snowflake's JSON capabilities, in terms of drilling down the JSON tree with dot path notation, or expanding nested objects is very expressive, very powerful, but still your typical analyst or your BI tool certainly wouldn't know how to do that. So, in Snowflake, we sort of have our cake and eat it too. We can have our JSONs with their full richness in our database, but yet we can simplify and expose the data elements that are needed for analysis, so that an analyst, their first day on the job, they can get right to work and start writing queries. >> So let me ask you about, a little more about the programmatic ad use case. So if you have billions of impressions per month, I'm guessing that means you have quite a few times more, in terms of bids, and then there's the, you know once you have, I guess a successful one, you want to track what happens. >> Correct. >> So tell us a little more about that, what that workload looks like, in terms of, what analytics you're trying to perform, what's your tracking? >> Yeah, well, you're right. There's different steps in our funnel. The impression request expands out by a factor of a dozen as we send it to all the different potential bidders. We track all that data, the responses come back, we track that, we track our decisions and why we selected the bidder. And then, once the ad is shown, of course there's various beacons and tracking things that fire. We'd have to track all of that data, and the only way we could make sense out of our business is by bringing all that data together. And in a way that is reliable, transparent, and visible, and also has data integrity, that's another thing I like about the Snowflake database is that it's a good old-fashioned SQL database that I can declare my primary keys, I can run QC checks, I can ensure high data integrity that is demanded by BI and other sorts of analytics. >> What would be, as you continue to push the boundaries of the ad tech service, what's some functionality that you're looking to add, and Snowflake as your partner, either that's in there now that you still need to take advantage of or things that you're looking to in the future? >> Well, moving forward, of course, we, it's very important for us to be able to quickly gauge the effectiveness of new products. The ad tech market is fast-changing, there's always new ways of bidding, new products that are being developed, new ways for the ad ecosystem to work. And so, as we roll those out, we need to be able to quickly analyze, you know, "Is this thing working or not?" You know, kind of an agile environment, pivot or prove it. Does this feature work or not? So, having all the data in one place makes that possible for that very quick assessment of the viability of a new feature, new product. >> And, dropping down a little under the covers for how that works, does that mean, like you still have the base JSON data that you've absorbed, but you're going to expose it with different schemas or access patterns? >> Yeah, indeed. For instance, we make use of the SQL schemas, roles, and permissions internally where we can have the different teams have their own domain of data that they can expose internally, and looking forward, there's the share house feature of Snowflake that we're looking to implement with our partners, where, rather than sending them data, like a daily dump of data, we can give them access to their data in our database through this top layer that Michael mentioned, the service layer, essentially allows me to create a view grant select onto another customer. So I no longer have to send daily data dumps to partners or have some sort of API for getting data. They can simply query the data themselves so we'll be implementing that feature with our major partners. >> I would be remiss in not asking at a data conference like this, now that there's the tie-in with CuBOL and Spark Integration and Machine Learning, is there anything along that front that you're planning to exploit in the near future? >> Well, yeah, Sharethrough, we're very experimental, playful, we're always examining new data technologies and new ways of doing things but now with Snowflake as sort of our data warehouse of curated data. I've got two petabytes of referential integrity data, and that is reliable. We can move forward into our other analyses and other uses of data knowing that we have captured every event exactly once, and we know exactly where it fits in a business context, in a relational manner. It's clean, good data integrity, reliable, accessible, visible, and it's just plain old SQL. (chuckles) >> That's actually a nice way to sum it up. We've got the integrity that we've come to expect and love from relational databases. We've got the flexibility of machine-oriented data, or JSON. But we don't have to give up the query engine, and then now you have more advanced features, analytic features that you can take advantage of coming down the pipe. >> Yeah, again we're a modern platform for the modern age, that's basically cloud-based computing. With a platform like Snowflake in the backend, you can now move those workloads that you're accustomed to to the cloud and have in the environment that you're familiar with, and it saves you a lot of time and effort. You can focus on more strategic projects. >> Okay, well, with that, we're going to take a short break. This has been George Gilbert, we're with Michael Nixon of Snowflake, and David Abercrombie of Sharethrough listening to how the most modern ad tech companies are taking advantage of the most modern cloud data warehouses. And we'll be back after a short break here at the Strata Data Conference, thanks. (quirky music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose, it's theCUBE. Presenting Big Data Silicon Valley, brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin with John Furrier. We are covering our second day of our event Big Data SV. We've had some great conversations, John, yesterday, today as well. Really looking at Big Data, digital transformation, Big Data, plus data science, lots of opportunity. We're excited to welcome back to theCUBE an alumni, Satyen Sangani, the co-founder and CEO of Alation. Welcome back! >> Thank you, it's wonderful to be here again. >> So you guys finish up your fiscal year end of December 2017, where in the first quarter of 2018. You guys had some really strong results, really strong momentum. >> Yeah. >> Tell us what's going on at Alation, how are you pulling this momentum through 2018. >> Well, I think we have had an enterprise focused business historically, because we solve a very complicated problem for very big enterprises, and so, in the last quarter we added customers like American Express, PepsiCo, Roche. And with huge expansions from our existing customers, some of whom, over the course of a year, I think went 12 X from an initial base. And so, we found some just incredible momentum in Q4 and for us that was a phenomenal cap to a great year. >> What about the platform you guys are doing? Can you just take a minute to explain what Alation does again just to refresh where you are on the product side? You mentioned some new accounts, some new use cases. >> Yeah. >> What's the update? Take a minute, talk about the update. >> Absolutely, so, you certainly know, John, but Alation's a data catalog and a data catalog essentially, you can think of it as Yelp or Amazon for data and information side of the enterprise. So if you think about how many different databases there are, how many different reports there are, how many different BI tools there are, how many different APIs there are, how many different algorithms there are, it's pretty dizzying for the average analyst. It's pretty dizzying for the average CIO. It's pretty dizzying for the average chief data officer. And particularly, inside of Fortune 500s where you have hundreds of thousands of databases. You have a situation where people just have too much signal or too much noise, not enough signal. And so what we do is we provide this Yelp for that information. You can come to Alation as a catalog. You can do a search on revenue 2017. You'll get all of the reports, all of the dashboards, all of the tables, all of the people that you might need to be able to find. And that gives you a single place of reference, so you can understand what you've got and what can answer your questions. >> What's interesting is, first of all, I love data. We're data driven, we're geeks on data. But when I start talking to folks that are outside the geek community or nerd community, you say data and they go, "Oh," because they cringe and they say, "Facebook." They see that data issues there. GDPR, data nightmare, where's the store, you got to manage it. And then, people are actually using data, so they're realizing how hard (laughs) it is. >> Yeah >> How much data do we have? So it's kind of like a tropic disillusionment, if you will. Now they got to get their hands on it. They've got to put it to work. >> Yeah. >> And they know that So, it's now becoming really hard (laughs) in their mind. This is business people. >> Yeah. >> They have data everywhere. How do you guys talk to that customer? Because, if you don't have quality data, if you don't have data you can trust, if you don't have the right people, it's hard to get it going. >> Yeah. >> How do you guys solve that problem and how do you talk to customers? >> So we talk a lot about data literacy. There is a lot of data in this world and that data is just emblematic of all of the stuff that's going on in this world. There's lots of systems, there's lots of complexity and the data, basically, just is about that complexity. Whether it's weblogs, or sensors, or the like. And so, you can either run away from that data, and say, "Look, I'm going to not, "I'm going to bury my head in the sand. "I'm going to be a business. "I'm just going to forget about that data stuff." And that's certainly a way to go. >> John: Yeah. >> It's a way to go away. >> Not a good outlook. >> I was going to say, is that a way of going out of business? >> Or, you can basically train, it's a human resources problem fundamentally. You've got to train your people to understand how to use data, to become data literate. And that's what our software is all about. That's what we're all about as a company. And so, we have a pretty high bar for what we think we do as a business and we're this far into that. Which is, we think we're training people to use data better. How do you learn to think scientifically? How do you go use data to make better decisions? How do you build a data driven culture? Those are the sorts of problems that I'm excited to work on. >> Alright, now take me through how you guys play out in an engagement with the customer. So okay, that's cool, you guys can come in, we're getting data literate, we understand we need to use data. Where are you guys winning? Where are you guys seeing some visibility, both in terms of the traction of the usage of the product, the use cases? Where is it kind of coming together for you guys? >> Yeah, so we literally, we have a mantra. I think any early stage company basically wins because they can focus on doing a couple of things really well. And for us, we basically do three things. We allow people to find data. We allow people to understand the data that they find. And we allow them to trust the data that they see. And so if I have a question, the first place I start is, typically, Google. I'll go there and I'll try to find whatever it is that I'm looking for. Maybe I'm looking for a Mediterranean restaurant on 1st Street in San Jose. If I'm going to go do that, I'm going to do that search and I'm going to find the thing that I'm looking for, and then I'm going to figure out, out of the possible options, which one do I want to go to. And then I'll figure out whether or not the one that has seven ratings is the one that I trust more than the one that has two. Well, data is no different. You're going to have to find the data sets. And inside of companies, there could be 20 different reports and there could be 20 different people who have information, and so you're going to trust those people through having context and understanding. >> So, trust, people, collaboration. You mentioned some big brands that you guys added towards the end of calendar 2017. How do you facilitate these conversations with maybe the chief data officer. As we know, in large enterprises, there's still a lot of ownership over data silos. >> Satyen: Yep. >> What is that conversation like, as you say on your website, "The first data catalog designed for collaboration"? How do you help these organizations as large as Coca-Cola understand where all the data are and enable the human resources to extract values, and find it, understand it, and trust it? >> Yeah, so we have a very simple hypothesis, which is, look, people fundamentally have questions. They're fundamentally curious. So, what you need to do as a chief data officer, as a chief information officer, is really figure out how to unlock that curiosity. Start with the most popular data sets. Start with the most popular systems. Start with the business people who have the most curiosity and the most demand for information. And oh, by the way, we can measure that. Which is the magical thing that we do. So we can come in and say, "Look, "we look at the logs inside of your systems to know "which people are using which data sets, "which sources are most popular, which areas are hot." Just like a social network might do. And so, just like you can say, "Okay, these are the trending restaurants." We can say, "These are the trending data sets." And that curiosity allows people to know, what data should I document first? What data should I make available first? What data do I improve the data quality over first? What data do I govern first? And so, in a world where you've got tons of signal, tons of systems, it's totally dizzying to figure out where you should start. But what we do is, we go these chief data officers and say, "Look, we can give you a tool and a catalyst so "that you know where to go, "what questions to answer, who to serve first." And you can use that to expand to other groups in the company. >> And this is interesting, a lot of people you mentioned social networks, use data to optimize for something, and in the case of Facebook, they they use my data to target ads for me. You're using data to actually say, "This is how people are using the data." So you're using data for data. (laughs) >> That's right. >> So you're saying-- >> Satyen: We're measuring how you can use data. >> And that's interesting because, I hear a lot of stories like, we bought a tool, we never used it. >> Yep. >> Or people didn't like the UI, just kind of falls on the side. You're looking at it and saying, "Let's get it out there and let's see who's using the data." And then, are you doubling down? What happens? Do I get a little star, do I get a reputation point, am I being flagged to HR as a power user? How are you guys treating that gamification in this way? It's interesting, I mean, what happens? Do I become like-- >> Yeah, so it's funny because, when you think about search, how do you figure out that something's good? So what Google did is, they came along and they've said, "We've got PageRank." What we're going to do is we're going to say, "The pages that are the best pages are the ones "that people link to most often." Well, we can do the same thing for data. The data sources that are the most useful ones are the people that are used most often. Now on top of that, you can say, "We're going to have experts put ratings," which we do. And you can say people can contribute knowledge and reviews of how this data set can be used. And people can contribute queries and reports on top of those data sets. And all of that gives you this really rich graph, this rich social graph, so that now when I look at something it doesn't look like Greek. It looks like, "Oh, well I know Lisa used this data set, "and then John used it "and so at least it must answer some questions "that are really intelligent about the media business "or about the software business. "And so that can be really useful for me "if I have no clue as to what I'm looking at." >> So the problem that you-- >> It's on how you demystify it through the social connections. >> So the problem that you solve, if what I hear you correctly, is that you make it easy to get the data. So there's some ease of use piece of it, >> Yep. >> cataloging. And then as you get people using it, this is where you take the data literacy and go into operationalizing data. >> Satyen: That's right. >> So this seems to be the challenge. So, if I'm a customer and I have a problem, the profile of your target customer or who your customers are, people who need to expand and operationalize data, how would you talk about it? >> Yeah, so it's really interesting. We talk about, one of our customers called us, sort of, the social network for nerds inside of an enterprise. And I think for me that's a compliment. (John laughing) But what I took from that, and when I explained the business of Alation, we start with those individuals who are data literate. The data scientists, the data engineers, the data stewards, the chief data officer. But those people have the knowledge and the context to then explain data to other people inside of that same institution. So in the same way that Facebook started with Harvard, and then went to the rest of the Ivies, and then went to the rest of the top 20 schools, and then ultimately to mom, and dad, and grandma, and grandpa. We're doing the exact same thing with data. We start with the folks that are data literate, we expand from there to a broader audience of people that don't necessarily have data in their titles, but have curiosity and questions. >> I like that on the curiosity side. You spent some time up at Strata Data. I'm curious, what are some of the things you're hearing from customers, maybe partners? Everyone used to talk about Hadoop, it was this big thing. And then there was a creation of data lakes, and swampiness, and all these things that are sort of becoming more complex in an organization. And with the rise of myriad data sources, the velocity, the volume, how do you help an enterprise understand and be able to catalog data from so many different sources? Is it that same principle that you just talked about in terms of, let's start with the lowest hanging fruit, start making the impact there and then grow it as we can? Or is an enterprise needs to be competitive and move really, really quickly? I guess, what's the process? >> How do you start? >> Right. >> What do people do? >> Yes! >> So it's interesting, what we find is multiple ways of starting with multiple different types of customers. And so, we have some customers that say, "Look, we've got a big, we've got Teradata, "and we've got some Hadoop, "and we've got some stuff on Amazon, "and we want to connect it all." And those customers do get started, and they start with hundreds of users, in some case, they start with thousands of users day one, and they just go Big Bang. And interestingly enough, we can get those customers enabled in matters of weeks or months to go do that. We have other customers that say, "Look, we're going to start with a team of 10 people "and we're going to see how it grows from there." And, we can accommodate either model or either approach. From our prospective, you just have to have the resources and the investment corresponding to what you're trying to do. If you're going to say, "Look, we're going to have, two dollars of budget, and we're not going to have the human resources, and the stewardship resources behind it." It's going to be hard to do the Big Bang. But if you're going to put the appropriate resources up behind it, you can do a lot of good. >> So, you can really facilitate the whole go big or go home approach, as as well as the let's start small think fast approach. >> That's right, and we always, actually ironically, recommend the latter. >> Let's start small, think fast, yeah. >> Because everybody's got a bigger appetite than they do the ability to execute. And what's great about the tool, and what I tell our customers and our employees all day long is, there's only metric I track. So year over year, for our business, we basically grow in accounts by net of churn by 55%. Year over year, and that's actually up from the prior year. And so from my perspective-- >> And what does that mean? >> So what that means is, the same customer gave us 55 cents more on the dollar than they did the prior year. Now that's best in class for most software businesses that I've heard. But what matters to me is not so much that growth rate in and of itself. What it means to me is this, that nobody's come along and says, "I've mastered my data. "I understand all of the information side of my company. "Every person knows everything there is to know." That's never been said. So if we're solving a problem where customers are saying, "Look, we get, and we can find, and understand, "and trust data, and we can do that better last year "than we did this year, and we can do it even more "with more people," we're going to be successful. >> What I like about what you're doing is, you're bringing an element of operationalizing data for literacy and for usage. But you're really bringing this notion of a humanizing element to it. Where you see it in security, you see it in emerging ecosystems. Where there's a community of data people who know how hard it is and was, and it seems to be getting easier. But the tsunami of new data coming in, IOT data, whatever, and new regulators like GDPR. These are all more surface area problems. But there's a community coming together. How have you guys seen your product create community? Have you seen any data on that, 'cause it sounds like, as people get networked together, the natural outcome of that is possibly usage you attract. But is there a community vibe that you're seeing? Is there an internal collaboration where they sit, they're having meet ups, they're having lunches. There's a social aspect in a human aspect. >> No, it's humanal, no, it's amazing. So in really subtle but really, really powerful ways. So one thing that we do for every single data source or every single report that we document, we just put who are the top users of this particular thing. So really subtly, day one, you're like, "I want to go find a report. "I don't even know "where to go inside of this really mysterious system". Postulation, you're able to say, "Well, I don't know where to go, but at least I can go call up John or Lisa," and say, "Hey, what is it that we know about this particular thing?" And I didn't have to know them. I just had to know that they had this report and they had this intelligence. So by just discovering people in who they are, you pick up on what people can know. >> So people of the new Google results, so you mentioned Google PageRank, which is web pages and relevance. You're taking a much more people approach to relevance. >> Satyen: That's right. >> To the data itself. >> That's right, and that builds community in very, very clear ways, because people have curiosity. Other people are in the mechanism why in which they satisfy that curiosity. And so that community builds automatically. >> They pay it forward, they know who to ask help for. >> That's right. >> Interesting. >> That's right. >> Last question, Satyen. The tag line, first data catalog designed for collaboration, is there a customer that comes to mind to you as really one that articulates that point exactly? Where Alation has come in and really kicked open the door, in terms of facilitating collaboration. >> Oh, absolutely. I was literally, this morning talking to one of our customers, Munich Reinsurance, largest reinsurance customer or company in the world. Their chief data officer said, "Look, three years ago, "we started with 10 people working on data. "Today, we've got hundreds. "Our aspiration is to get to thousands." We have three things that we do. One is, we actually discover insights. It's actually the smallest part of what we do. The second thing that we do is, we enable people to use data. And the third thing that we do is, drive a data driven culture. And for us, it's all about scaling knowledge, to centers in China, to centers in North America, to centers in Australia. And they've been doing that at scale. And they go to each of their people and they say, "Are you a data black belt, are you a data novice?" It's kind of like skiing. Are you blue diamond or a black diamond. >> Always ski in pairs (laughs) >> That's right. >> And they do ski in pairs. And what they end up ultimately doing is saying, "Look, we're going to train all of our workforce to become better, so that in three, 10 years, we're recognized as one of the most innovative insurance companies in the world." Three years ago, that was not the case. >> Process improvement at a whole other level. My final question for you is, for the folks watching or the folks that are going to watch this video, that could be a potential customer of yours, what are they feeling? If I'm the customer, what smoke signals am I seeing that say, I need to call Alation? What are some of the things that you've found that would tell a potential customer that they should be talkin' to you guys? >> Look, I think that they've got to throw out the old playbook. And this was a point that was made by some folks at a conference that I was at earlier this week. But they basically were saying, "Look, the DLNA's PlayBook was all about providing the right answer." Forget about that. Just allow people to ask the right questions. And if you let people's curiosity guide them, people are industrious, and ambitious, and innovative enough to go figure out what they need to go do. But if you see this as a world of control, where I'm going to just figure out what people should know and tell them what they're going to go know. that's going to be a pretty, a poor career to go choose because data's all about, sort of, freedom and innovation and understanding. And we're trying to push that along. >> Satyen, thanks so much for stopping by >> Thank you. >> and sharing how you guys are helping organizations, enterprises unlock data curiosity. We appreciate your time. >> I appreciate the time too. >> Thank you. >> And thanks John! >> And thank you. >> Thanks for co-hosting with me. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live from our second day of coverage of our event Big Data SV. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest after a short break. 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(royal music) >> Announcer: John Cleese. >> There's a lot of people out there who have no idea what they're doing, but they have absolutely no idea that they have no idea what they're doing. Those are the ones with the confidence and stupidity who finish up in power. That's why the planet doesn't work. >> Announcer: Knowledgeable, insightful, and a true gentleman. >> The guy at the counter recognized me and said... Are you listening? >> John Furrier: Yes, I'm tweeting away. >> No, you're not. >> I tweet, I'm tweeting away. >> He is kind of rude that way. >> You're on your (bleep) keyboard. >> Announcer: John Cleese joins the Cube alumni. Welcome, John. >> John Cleese: Have you got any phone calls you need to answer? >> John Furrier: Hold on, let me check. >> Announcer: Live from San Jose, it's the Cube, presenting Big Data Silicon Valley, brought to you by Silicon Angle Media and its ecosystem partners. (busy music) >> Hey, welcome back to the Cube's continuing coverage of our event, Big Data SV. I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host, George Gilbert. We are down the street from the Strata Data Conference. This is our second day, and we've been talking all things big data, cloud data science. We're now excited to be joined by the CEO of a company called Data Science, Ian Swanson. Ian, welcome to the Cube. >> Thanks so much for having me. I mean, it's been a awesome two days so far, and it's great to wrap up my trip here on the show. >> Yeah, so, tell us a little bit about your company, Data Science, what do you guys do? What are some of the key opportunities for you guys in the enterprise market? >> Yeah, absolutely. My company's called datascience.com, and what we do is we offer an enterprise data science platform where data scientists get to use all they tools they love in all the languages, all the libraries, leveraging everything that is open source to build models and put models in production. Then we also provide IT the ability to be able to manage this massive stack of tools that data scientists require, and it all boils down to one thing, and that is, companies need to use the data that they've been storing for years. It's about, how do you put that data into action. We give the tools to data scientists to get that data into action. >> Let's drill down on that a bit. For a while, we thought if we just put all our data in this schema-on-read repository, that would be nirvana. But it wasn't all that transparent, and we recognized we have to sort of go in and structure it somewhat, help us take the next couple steps. >> Ian: Yeah, the journey. >> From this partially curated data sets to something that turns into a model that is actionable. >> That's actually been the theme in the show here at the Strata Data Conference. If we went back years ago, it was, how do we store data. Then it was, how do we not just store and manage, but how do we transform it and get it into a shape that we can actually use it. The theme of this year is how do we get it to that next step, the next step of putting it into action. To layer onto that, data scientists need to access data, yes, but then they need to be able to collaborate, work together, apply many different techniques, machine learning, AI, deep learning, these are all techniques of a data scientist to be able to build a model. But then there's that next step, and the next is, hey, I built this model, how do I actually get it in production? How does it actually get used? Here's the shocking thing. I was at an event where there's 500 data scientists in the audience, and I said, "Stand up if you worked on a model for more than nine months "and it never went into production." 90% of the audience stood up. That's the last mile that we're all still working on, and what's exciting is, we can make it possible today. >> Wanting to drill down into the sort of, it sounds like there's a lot of choice in the tools. But typically, to do a pipeline, you either need well established APIs that everyone understands and plugs together with, or you need an end to end sort of single vendor solution that becomes the sort of collaboration backbone. How are you organized, how are you built? >> This might be self-serving, but datascience.com, we have enterprise data science platform, we recommend a unified platform for data science. Now, that unified platform needs to be highly configurable. You need to make it so that that workbench, you can use any tool that you want. Some data scientists might want to use a hammer, others want to be able to use a screwdriver over here. The power is how configurable, how extensible it is, how open source you can adopt everything. The amazing trends that we've seen have been proprietary solutions going back decades, to now, the rise of open source. Every day, dozens if not hundreds of new machine learning libraries are being released every single day. We've got to give those capabilities to data scientists and make them scale. >> OK, so the, and I think it's pretty easy to see how you would have incorporate new machine learning libraries into a pipeline. But then there's also the tools for data preparation, and for like feature extraction and feature engineering, you might even have some tools that help you with figuring out which algorithm to select. What holds all that together? >> Yeah, so orchestrating the enterprise data science stack is the hardest challenge right now. There has to be a company like us that is the glue, that is not just, do these solutions work together, but also, how do they collaborate, what is that workflow? What are those steps in that process? There's one thing that you might have left out, and that is, model deployment, model interpretation, model management. >> George: That's the black art, yeah. >> That's where this whole thing is going next. That was the exciting thing that I heard in terms of all these discussion with business leaders throughout the last two days is model deployment, model management. >> If I can kind of take this to maybe shift the conversation a little bit to the target audience. Talked a lot about data scientists and needing to enable them. I'm curious about, we just talked with, a couple of guests ago, about the chief data officer. How, you work with enterprises, how common is the chief data officer role today? What are some of the challenges they've got that datascience.com can help them to eliminate? >> Yeah, the CIO and the chief data officer, we have CIOs that have been selecting tools for companies to use, and now the chief data officer is sitting down with the CEO and saying, "How do we actually drive business results?" We work very closely with both of those personas. But on the CDO side, it's really helping them educate their teams on the possibilities of what could be realized with the data at hand, and making sure that IT is enabling the data scientists with the right tools. We supply the tools, but we also like to go in there with our customers and help coach, help educate what is possible, and that helps with the CDO's mission. >> A question along that front. We've been talking about sort of empowering the data scientist, and really, from one end of the modeling life cycle all the way to the end or the deployment, which is currently the hardest part and least well supported. But we also have tons of companies that don't have data science trained people, or who are only modestly familiar. Where do, what do we do with them? How do we get those companies into the mainstream in terms of deploying this? >> I think whether you're a small company or a big company, digital transformation is the mandate. Digital transformation is not just, how do I make a taxi company become Uber, or how do I make a speaker company become Sonos, the smart speaker, it's how do I exploit all the sources of my data to get better and improved operational processes, new business models, increased revenue, reduced operation costs. You could start small, and so we work with plenty of smaller companies. They'll hire a couple data scientists, and they're able to do small quick wins. You don't have to go sit in the basement for a year having something that is the thing, the unicorn in the business, it's small quick wins. Now we, my company, we believe in writing code, trained, educated, data scientists. There are solutions out there that you throw data at, you push a button, it gets an output. It's this magic black box. There's risk in that. Model interpretation, what are the features it's scoring on, there's risk, but those companies are seeing some level of success. We firmly believe, though, in hiring a data science team that is trained, you can start small, two or three, and get some very quick wins. >> I was going to say, those quick wins are essential for survivability, like digital transformation is essential, but it's also, I mean, to survival at a minimum, right? >> Ian: Yes. >> Those quick wins are presumably transformative to an enterprise being able to sustain, and then eventually, or ideally, be able to take market share from their competition. >> That is key for the CDO. The CDO is there pitching what is possible, he's pitching, she's pitching the dream. In order to be able to help visualize what that dream and the outcome could be, we always say, start small, quick wins, then from there, you can build. What you don't want to do is go nine months working on something and you don't know if there's going to be outcome. A lot of data science is trial and error. This is science, we're testing hypotheses. There's not always an outcome that's to be there, so small quick wins is something we highly recommend. >> A question, one of the things that we see more and more is the idea that actionable insights are perishable, and that latency matters. In fact, you have a budget for latency, almost, like in that short amount of time, the more sort of features that you can dynamically feed into a model to get a score, are you seeing more of that? How are the use cases that you're seeing, how's that pattern unfolding? >> Yeah, so we're seeing more streaming data use cases. We work with some of the biggest technology companies in the world, so IoT, connected services, streaming real time decisions that are happening. But then, also, there are so many use cases around org that could be marketing, finance, HR related, not just tech related. On the marketing side, imagine if you're customer service, and somebody calls you, and you know instantly the lifetime value of that customer, and it kicks off a totally new talk track, maybe get escalated immediately to a new supervisor, because that supervisor can handle this top tier customer. These are decisions that can happen real time leveraging machine learning models, and these are things that, again, are small quick wins, but massive, massive impact. It's about decision process now. That's digital transformation. >> OK. Are you seeing patterns in terms of how much horsepower customers are budgeting for the training process, creating the model? Because we know it's very compute intensive, like, even Intel, some people call it, like, high performance compute, like a supercomputer type workload. How much should people be budgeting? Because we don't see any guidelines or rules of thumb for this. >> I still think the boundaries are being worked out. There's a lot of great work that Nvidia's doing with GPU, we're able to do things faster on compute power. But even if we just start from the basics, if you go and talk to a data scientist at a massive company where they have a team of over 1,000 data scientists, and you say to do this analysis, how do you spin up your compute power? Well, I go walk over to IT and I knock on the door, and I say, "Set up this machine, set up this cluster." That's ridiculous. A product like ours is able to instantly give them the compute power, scale it elastically with our cloud service partners or work with on-prem solutions to be able to say, get the power that you need to get the results in the time that's needed, quick, fast. In terms of the boundaries of the budget, that's still being defined. But at the end of the day, we are seeing return on investment, and that's what's key. >> Are you seeing a movement towards a greater scope of integration for the data science tool chain? Or is it that at the high end, where you have companies with 1,000 data scientists, they know how to deal with specialized components, whereas, when there's perhaps less of, a smaller pool of expertise, the desire for end to end integration is greater. >> I think there's this kind of thought that is not necessarily right, and that is, if you have a bigger data science team, you're more sophisticated. We actually see the same sophistication level of 1,000 person data science team, in many cases, to a 20 person data science team, and sometimes inverse, I mean, it's kind of crazy. But it's, how do we make sure that we give them the tools so they can drive value. Tools need to include collaboration and workflow, not just hammers and nails, but how do we work together, how do we scale knowledge, how do we get it in the hands of the line of business so they can use the results. It's that that is key. >> That's great, Ian. I also like that you really kind of articulated start small, quick ins can make massive impact. We want to thank you so much for stopping by the Cube and sharing that, and what you guys are doing at Data Science to help enterprises really take advantage of the value that data can really deliver. >> Thanks so much for having datascience.com on, really appreciate it. >> Lisa: Absolutely. George, thank you for being my co-host. >> You're always welcome. >> We want to thank you for watching the Cube. I'm Lisa Martin with George Gilbert, and we are at our event Big Data SV on day two. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest after a short break. (busy music)

>> Live from San Jose, it's theCUBE! Presenting Big Data Silicon Valley, brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. Our continuing coverage of our event, Big data SV. I'm Lisa Martin with my co-host George Gilbert. We're down the street from the Strata Data Conference, hearing a lot of interesting insights on big data. Peeling back the layers, looking at opportunities, some of the challenges, barriers to overcome but also the plethora of opportunities that enterprises alike have that they can take advantage of. Our next guest is no stranger to theCUBE, she was just on with me a couple days ago at the Women in Data Science Conference. Please welcome back to theCUBE, Ziya Ma. Vice President of Software and Services Group and the Director of Big Data Technologies from Intel. Hi Ziya! >> Hi Lisa. >> Long time, no see. >> I know, it was just really two to three days ago. >> It was, well and now I can say happy International Women's Day. >> The same to you, Lisa. >> Thank you, it's great to have you here. So as I mentioned, we are down the street from the Strata Data Conference. You've been up there over the last couple days. What are some of the things that you're hearing with respect to big data? Trends, barriers, opportunities? >> Yeah, so first it's very exciting to be back at the conference again. The one biggest trend, or one topic that's hit really hard by many presenters, is the power of bringing the big data system and data science solutions together. You know, we're definitely seeing in the last few years the advancement of big data and advancement of data science or you know, machine learning, deep learning truly pushing forward business differentiation and improve our life quality. So that's definitely one of the biggest trends. Another thing I noticed is there was a lot of discussion on big data and data science getting deployed into the cloud. What are the learnings, what are the use cases? So I think that's another noticeable trend. And also, there were some presentations on doing the data science or having the business intelligence on the edge devices. That's another noticeable trend. And of course, there were discussion on security, privacy for data science and big data so that continued to be one of the topics. >> So we were talking earlier, 'cause there's so many concepts and products to get your arms around. If someone is looking at AI and machine learning on the back end, you know, we'll worry about edge intelligence some other time, but we know that Intel has the CPU with the Xeon and then this lower power one with Atom. There's the GPU, there's ASICs, FPGAS, and then there are these software layers you know, with higher abstraction layer, higher abstraction level. Help us put some of those pieces together for people who are like saying, okay, I know I've got a lot of data, I've got to train these sophisticated models, you know, explain this to me. >> Right, so Intel is a real solution provider for data science and big data. So at the hardware level, and George, as you mentioned, we offer a wide range of products from general purpose like Xeon to targeted silicon such as FPGA, Nervana, and other ASICs chips like Nervana. And also we provide adjacencies like networking the hardware, non-volatile memory and mobile. You know, those are the other adjacent products that we offer. Now on top of the hardware layer, we deliver fully optimized software solutions stack from libraries, frameworks, to tools and solutions. So that we can help engineers or developers to create AI solutions with greater ease and productivity. For instance, we deliver Intel optimized math kernel library. That leverage of the latest instruction set gives us significant performance boosts when you are running your software on Intel hardware. We also deliver framework like BigDL and for Spark and big data type of customers if they are looking for deep learning capabilities. We also optimize some popular open source deep learning frameworks like Caffe, like TensorFlow, MXNet, and a few others. So our goal is to provide all the necessary solutions so that at the end our customers can create the applications, the solutions that they really need to address their biggest pinpoints. >> Help us think about the maturity level now. Like, we know that the very most sophisticated internet service providers who are sort of all over this machine learning now for quite a few years. Banks, insurance companies, people who've had this. Statisticians and actuaries who have that sort of skillset are beginning to deploy some of these early production apps. Where are we in terms of getting this out to the mainstream? What are some of the things that have to happen? >> To get it to mainstream, there are so many things we could do. First I think we will continue to see the wide range of silicon products but then there are a few things Intel is pushing. For example, we're developing this in Nervana, graph compiler that will encapsulate the hardware integration details and present a consistent API for developers to work with. And this is one thing that we hope that we can eventually help the developer community with. And also, we are collaborating with the end user. Like, from the enterprise segment. For example, we're working with the financial services industry, we're working with a manufacturing sector and also customers from the medical field. And online retailers, trying to help them to deliver or create the data science and analytics solutions on Intel-based hardware or Intel optimized software. So that's another thing that we do. And we're seeing actually very good progress in this area. Now we're also collaborating with many cloud service providers. For instance, we work with some of the top seven cloud service providers, both in the U.S. and also in China to democratize the, not only our hardware, but also our libraries and tools, BigDL, MKL, and other frameworks and libraries so that our customers, including individuals and businesses, can easily access to those building blocks from the cloud. So definitely we're working from different factors. >> So last question in the last couple of minutes. Let's kind of vibe on this collaboration theme. Tell us a little bit about the collaboration that you're having with, you mentioned customers in some highly regulated industries, for as an example. But a little bit to understand what's that symbiosis? What is Intel learning from your customers that's driving Intel's innovation of your technologies and big data? >> That's an excellent question. So Lisa, maybe I can start my sharing a couple of customer use cases. What kind of a solution that we help our customer to address. I think it's always wise not to start a conversation with the customer on technology that you deliver. You want to understand the customer's needs first. And then so that you can provide a solution that really address their biggest pinpoint rather than simply selling technology. So for example, we have worked with an online retailer to better understand their customers' shopping behavior and to assess their customers' preferences and interests. And based upon that analysis, the online retailer made different product recommendations and maximized its customers' purchase potential. And it drove up the retailer's sales. You know, that's one type of use case that we have worked. We also have partnered with the customers from the medical field. Actually, today at the Strata Conference we actually had somebody highlighting, we had a joint presentation with UCSF where we helped the medical center to automate the diagnosis and grading of meniscus lesions. And so today actually, that's all done manually by the radiologist but now that entire process is automated. The result is much more accurate, much more consistent, and much more timely. Because you don't have to wait for the availability of a radiologist to read all the 3D MRI images. And that can all be done by machines. You know, so those are the areas that we work with our customers, understand their business need, and give them the solution they are looking for. >> Wow, the impact there. I wish we had more time to dive into some of those examples. But we thank you so much, Ziya, for stopping by twice in one week to theCUBE and sharing your insights. And we look forward to having you back on the show in the near future. >> Thanks, so thanks Lisa, thanks George for having me. >> And for my co-host George Gilbert, I'm Lisa Martin. We are live at Big Data SV in San Jose. Come down, join us for the rest of the afternoon. We're at this cool place called Forager Tasting and Eatery. We will be right back with our next guest after a short break. (electronic outro music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose, it's The Cube, presenting Big Data, Silicon Valley. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to The Cube. Our continuing coverage of our event, Big Data SV continues. I am Lisa Martin joined by Peter Burris. We're in downtown San Jose at a really cool place called Forager Tasting and Eatery. Come down, hang out with us today as we have continued conversations around all things big data, everything in between. This is our second day here and we're excited to welcome to The Cube the CMO of VANTIQ, Blaine Mathieu. Blaine, great to meet you, great to have you on the program. >> Great to be here, thanks for inviting me. >> So, VANTIQ, you guys are up the street in Walnut Creek. What do you guys do, what are you about, what makes VANTIQ different? >> Well, in a nutshell, VANTIQ is a so called high productivity application development platform to allow developers to build, deploy, and manage so called event driven real time applications, the kind of applications that are critical for driving many of the digital transformation initiatives that enterprises are trying to get on top of these days. >> Digital trasformation, it's a term that can mean so many different things, but today, it's essential for companies to be able to compete, especially enterprise companies with newer companies that are more agile, more modern. But if we peel apart digital transformation, there's so many elements that are essential. How do you guys help companies, enterprises, say, evolve their application architectures that might currently not be able to support an actual transformation to a digital business? >> Well, I think that's a great question, thank you. I think the key to digital trasformation is really a lot around the concept of real time, okay. The reason Uber is disrupting or has disrupted the taxi industry is the old way of doing it was somebody called a taxi and then they waited 30 minutes for a taxi to show up and then they told the taxi where to go and hopefully they got there. Whereas, Uber, turned that into a real time business, right? You called, you pinged something on your phone. They knew your location. They knew the location of the driver. They matched those up, brought 'em together in real time. Already knew where to bring you to and ensured you had the right route and that location. All of this data flowing, all of these actions have been taken in real time. The same thing applies to a disruptor like Netflix, okay? In the old days, Blockbuster used to send you, you know, a leaflet in the mail telling you what the new movies are. Maybe it was personalized for you. Probably not. No, Netflix knows who you are instantly, gives you that information, again, in real time based on what you've done in the past and is able to give you, deliver the movie also, in real time pretty well. Every disruptor you look at around digital transformation is bringing a business or a process that was done slowly and impersonally to make it happen in real time. Unfortunately, enterprise applications and the architectures, as you said a second ago, that are being used in most applications today weren't designed to enable these real time use cases. A great example is sales force. So, a sales force is a pretty standard, what you'd call a request application. So, you make a request, a person, generally, makes a request of the system, system goes into a database, queries that database, find information and then returns it back to the user. And that whole process could take, you know, significant amounts of time, especially if the right data isn't in the database at the time and you have to go request it or find it or create it. A new type of application needs to be created that's not fundamentally database centric, but it's able to take these real time data streams coming in from devices, from people, from enterprise systems, process them in real time and then take an action. >> So, let's pretend I'm a CEO. >> Yeah. >> One of the key things you said, and I want you to explain it better, is event. What is event? What is an event and how does that translate into a digital business decision? >> This notion of complex event processing CEP has been around in technology for a long time and yet, it surprises me still a lot of folks we talk to, CEOs, have never heard of the concept. And, it's very simple really. An event is just something that happens in the context of business. That's as complex and as simple as it is. An event could be a machine increases in temperature by one degree, a car moves from one location to another location. It could be an enterprise system, like an ERP system, you know, approves a PO. It could be a person pressing a button on a mobile device. All of those, or it could be an IOT device putting off a signal about the state of a machine. Increasingly, we're getting a lot of events coming from IOT devices. So, really, any particular interesting business situation or a change in a situation that happens is an event And increasingly driven, as you know, by IOT, by augmented reality, by AI and machine learning, by autonomous vehicles, by all these new real time technologies are spinning off more and more events, streams of these events coming off in rapid fashion and we have to be able to do something about them. >> Let me take a crack at it and you tell me if I've got this right. That, historically, applications have been defined in terms of processes and so, in many respects, there was a very concrete, discreet, well established program, set of steps that were performed and then the transaction took place. And event, it seems to me is, yeah, we generally described it, but it changes in response to the data. >> Right, right. >> So, an event is kind of like an outside in driven by data. >> Right, right. >> System response, whereas, your traditional transaction processing is an inside out driven by a sequence of programmed steps, and that decision might have been made six years ago. So, the event is what's happening right now informed by data versus a transaction, traditional transaction is much more, what did we decide to do six years ago and it just gets sustained. Have I got that right? >> That's right. Absolutely right or six hours ago or even six minutes ago, which might seem wow, six minutes, that's pretty good, but take a use case for a field service agent trying to fix a machine or an air conditioner on top of a building. In today's world now, that air conditioner has hundreds of sensors that are putting off data about the state of that air conditioner in real time. A service tech has the ability to, while the machine is still putting off that data, be able to make repairs and changes and fixes, again, in the moment, see how that is changing the data coming off the machine, and then, continue to make the appropriate repairs in collaboration with a smart system or an application that's helping them. >> That's how identifying patterns about what the problem is, versus some of the old ways was where we had recipe of, you know, steps that you went through in the call center. >> Right, right. And the customer is getting more and more frustrated. >> They got their clipboard out and had the 52 steps they followed to see oh that didn't work, now the next step. No, data can help us do that much more efficiently and effectively if we're able to process it in real time. >> So, in many respects, what we're really talking about is an application world or a world looking forward where the applications, which historically have been very siloed, process driven, to a world where the application function is much more networked together and the application, the output of one application is having a significant impact through data on the performance of an application somewhere else. That seems like it's got the potential to be an extremely complex fabric. (laughing) So, do I wait until I figure all that out (laughing) and then I start building it? Or do I, I mean, how do I do it? Do I start small and create and grow into it? What's the best way for people to start working on this? >> Well, you're absolutely right. Building these complex, geeking out a little bit, you know, asynchronous, non-blocking, so called reactive applications, that's the concept that we've been using in computer science for some time, is very hard, frankly. Okay, it's much easier to build computing systems that process things step one, step, two, step three, in order, but if you have to build a system that is able to take real time inputs or changes at any point in the process at any time and go in a different direction, it's very complex. And, computer scientists have been writing applications like this for decades. It's possible to do, but that isn't possible to do at the speed that companies now want to transform themselves, right? By the time you spec out an application and spend two years writing it, your business competitors have already disrupted you. The requirements have already changed. You need to be much more rapid and agile. And so, the secret sauce to this whole thing is to be able to write these transformative applications or create them, not even write is actually the wrong word to use, to be able to create them. >> Generate them. >> Yeah, generate them in a way which is very fast, does not require a guru level developer and reactive Java or some super low level code that you'd have to use to otherwise do it, so that you can literally have business people help design the applications, conceptually build them almost in real time, get them out into the market, and then be able to modify them as you need to, you know, on the fly. >> If I can build on that for just one second. So, it used to be we had this thing called computer assisted software engineer. >> (laughs) Right, right. >> We were going to operate this very very high level language. It's kind of-- But then, we would use code and build a code and the two of them were separated and so the minute that we deployed, somebody would go off and maintain and the whole thing would break. >> Right, right. >> Do you have that problem? >> No, well, that's exactly right. So, the old, you know, the old, the previous way of doing it was about really modeling an application, maybe visually, drag and drop, but then fundamentally, you created a bunch of code and then your job, as you said after, was to maintain and deploy and manage. >> Try to sustain some connection back up to that beautiful visual model. >> And you probably didn't because that was too much. That was too much work, so forget about the model after that. Instead, what we're able to do these days is to build the applications visually, you know, really for the most part with either super low code or, in many cases, no code because we have the ability to abstract away a lot of the complexity, a lot of the complex code that you'd have to write, we can represent that, okay, with these logical abstractions, create the applications themselves, and then continue to maintain, add to, modify the application using the exact same structure. You're not now stuck on, now you're stuck with 20,000 lines of code that you have to, that you have to edit. You're continuing to run and maintain the application just the way you built it, okay. We've now got to the place in computer science where we can actually do these things. We couldn't do them, you know, 20 years ago with case, but we can absolutely do them now. >> So, I'm hearing from a customer internal perspective a lot of operational efficiencies that VANTIQ can drive. Let's look now from a customer's perspective. What are the business impacts you're able to make? You mentioned the word reactive a minute ago when you were talking about applications, but do you have an example where you've, VANTIQ, has enabled a customer, a business, to be more, to be proactive and be able to identify through, you know, complex event processing, what their customers are doing to be able to deliver relevant messages and really drive revenue, drive profit? >> Right, right. So many, you know, so many great examples. And, I mentioned field service a few minutes ago. I've got a lot of clients in that doing this real time field service using these event processing applications. One that I want to bring up right now is one of the largest global shoe manufacturers, actually, that's a client of VANTIQ. I, unfortunately, can't say the name right now 'cause they want to keep what they're doing under wraps, but we all definitely know the company. And they're using this to manage the security, primarily, around their real time global supply chain. So, they've got a big challenge with companies in different countries redirecting shipments of their shoes, selling them on the gray market, at different prices than what are allowed in different regions of the world. And so, through both sensorizing the packages, the barcode scanning, the enterprise systems bringing all that data together in real time, they can literally tell in the moment is something is be-- If a package is redirected to the wrong region or if literally a shoe or a box of shoes is being sold where it shouldn't be sold at the wrong price. They used to get a monthly report on the activities and then they would go and investigate what happened last month. Now, their fraud detection manager is literally sitting there getting this in real time, saying, oh, Singapore sold a pallet of shoes that they should not have been able to sell five minute ago. Call up the guy in Singapore and have him go down and see what's going on and fix that issue. That's pretty powerful when you think about it. >> Definitely, so like reduction in fraud or increase in fraud detection. Sounds like, too, there's a potential for a significant amount of cost savings to the business, not just meeting the external customer needs, but from a, from a cost perspective reduction. Not just some probably TCO, but in operational expenses. >> For sure, although, I would say most of the digital transformation initiatives, when we talk to CEOs and CIOs, they're not focused as much on cost savings, as they're focused on A, avoiding being disrupted by the next interesting startup, B, creating new lines of business, new revenue streams, finding out a way to do something differently dramatically better than they're currently doing it. It's not only about optimizing or squeezing some cost out of their current application. This thing that we are talking about, I guess you could say it's an improvement on their current process, but really, it's actually something they just weren't even really doing before. Just a total different way of doing fraud detection and managing their global supply chain that they just fundamentally weren't even doing. And now, of course, they're looking at many other use cases across the company, not just in supply chain, but, you know, smart manufacturing, so many use cases. Your point about savings, though, there's, you know, what value does the application itself bring? Then, there's the question of what does it cost to build and maintain and deploy the application itself, right? And, again, with these new visual development tools, they're not modeling tools, you're literally developing the application visually. You know, I've been in so many scenarios where we talked to large enterprises. You know, we talk about what we're doing, like we talk about right now, and they say, okay, we'd love to do a POC, proof of concept. We want to allocate six months for this POC, like normally you would probably do for building most enterprise applications. And, we inevitably say, well, how about Friday? How about we have the POC done by Friday? And, you know, we get the Germans laugh, you know, laugh uncomfortably and we go away and deliver the POC by Friday because of how much different it is to build applications this way versus writing low level Java or C-sharp code and sticking together a bunch of technologies and tools 'cause we abstract all that away. And, you know, the eyes drop open and the mouth drops open and it's incredible what modern technology can do to radically change how software is being developed. >> Wow, big impact in a short period of time. That's always a nice thing to be able to deliver. >> It is, it is to-- It's great to be able to surprise people like that. >> Exactly, exactly. Well, Blaine, thank you so much for stopping by, sharing what VANTIQ is doing to help companies be disruptive and for sharing those great customer examples. We appreciate your time. >> You're welcome. Appreciate the time. >> And for my co-host, Peter Burris, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube's continuing coverage of our event, Big Data SV Live from San Jose, down the street from the Strata Data Conference. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest after a short breal. (techy music)

>> Male Narrator: Live from San Jose, it's theCube. Presenting Big Data Silicon Valley, brought to you by SilconANGLE Media and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCube's continuing coverage of our event, Big Data SV in downtown San Jose. I'm Lisa Martin, my co-host is Dave Vellante. Hey Dave. >> Hey Lisa, how's it going? >> Good. >> Doing a great job here, by the way. >> Well thank you, sir. >> Keeping the trains going. >> Yeah. >> Well done. >> We've had a really interesting couple of days, we started here yesterday interviewing lots of great guys and gals on Big Data and everything in between. A lots of different topics there, opportunities, challenges, digital transformation, how can customers really evolve on this journey? We're excited to welcome back to theCube, one of our distinguished alumni, Matt Maccaux, the Global Big Data Practice Lead from Dell EMC. Welcome back. >> Well thanks for having me, appreciate it, it's a pleasure to be here. >> Yeah, so lots of stuff going on. We've been here, as I mentioned, we're down the street from the Strata Data Conference and we've had a lot of great conversations, very educational, informative. You've been with the whole Dell EMC family for a while now. We'd love to get your perspective on, kind of, what's going on from your team's standpoint. What are you seeing in the enterprises with respect to Big Data and being able to really leverage data across the business as a value driver and a revenue generator? >> Yeah, it's interesting that what we see across the business in terms of, especially in the big enterprises, there, many organizations, even the more mature ones, are still struggling to get that extra dollar, that extra level of monetization out of their data assets. They, everyone talks about monetizing data and using data, treating it as an asset, but organizations are struggling with that, not because of the technology, the technology's been put in, they've ramped up their teams, their skills. It's, what we tend to see inhibiting this digital transformation growth is process. It's organizational strife and it's not looking to best practices, even within own, their own organization, we're doing things like DevOps. So, why would we treat the notion of creating a data model any different than we would regular application development? Well, organizations still carry that weight, that inertia, they still treat Big Data and analytics like they do the data warehouse, and the most effective organizations are starting to incorporate that agile methodology and agile thinking, no snowflakes, infrastructure's code, these concepts of quickly and rapidly repeatedly doing these things, those are the organizations that are really starting to pull away from their competitors in industry. So, Dell EMC, our consulting group and our product lines are all there to support that transformation journey by taking those best practices and DevOps DataOps and bringing that to the analytical space. >> Do you think that companies, Matt, have a pretty good sense as to how applications that they develop are going to affect, create value, creating value is, let's simplify it, increasing revenue or cutting cost? Generally people can predict with the impact, they can write a business case around it. My observation was that certainly in the early days of so-called Big Data, people really didn't have an understanding as to the relationship between their data and that value, and so, many companies mistakenly thought, "Well I need to figure out how to sell my data," versus understand how data affects monetization. I wonder if you could comment on that and how has that progressed throughout the years? >> Yeah, that's a good point, we, from a consulting practice, used to do a lot of, what we call, proof of values, where organizations, after they kicked the tires and covered some use cases, we took them through a very slow, methodical business case RY analysis. You're going to spend this much on infrastructure, you're going to hire these people, you're going to take this data, and poof, you're going to make this much money, you're going to save this much money. Well, we're doing less and less of that these days because organizations have a good feel for where they want to go and the potential upside for doing this where they're now tend to struggle is, "Well, how do I actually get there?" "There's still a lot of tools and a lot of technologies and which is right for my business?" "What is the right process and how do I build that consensus in the organization?" And so, from a business consulting perspective, we're doing less of the RY work and more of the governance, the sort of, governance work by aligning stakeholders, getting those repeatable patterns and architectures in place to help organizations take that first few wins and then scale it. >> Where do you see the action these days? I mean there's somehow I profile use cases, obviously getting people to click on ads, Big Data has helped with that, fraud detection has come such a long way in the last 10 years, ya know, no doubt, certainly risk assessment, ya know, from the financial services industry. Those are the obvious ones, where else do you see Big Data analytics to the changing the world, if you will? >> Yeah, so I'd say those static or batch-type workloads are well understood. That, hey, is there fraud on transactions that occurred yesterday or last night? What is the customer score, lifetime value score for customer? Where we see more trends in the enterprise space is streaming. So, what can we catch in real time and help our people make real time decisions? So, and that is dealing with unstructured data. So, I've got a call center and I'm listening to the voice that's coming in, putting some sentiment analysis on that and then providing a score or script to the customer call agent in real time. And those, sort of, streaming use cases, whether it's images or voice, that, I think, is the next paradigm for use cases that organizations want to tackle. 'Cause if you can prevent a customer from leaving in real time, right, say, you know what, it sounds like you're upset, what if we did X to help retain you, it's going to be significant. All these organizations have a good idea of the cost it takes to acquire a new customer and the cost of losing a customer, so if they can put that intelligence in upstream, they no longer have to spend so much money trying to capture new customers 'cause they can focus on the ones they have. So, I think that, sort of, time between customer and streaming is where the next set of, I think, money's to be found. >> So customer experience is critical for businesses in any organization, I'm wondering, kind of, what the juxtaposition is of businesses going, "Yes, we have to be able "to do things in real time, in enterprise, "we have to be agile, yet we have, in order "to really facilitate a really effective, relevant, "timely customer experience, many departments "and organizations in a business need access to data." From a political perspective, how does Dell EMC, how does your consulting practice help an enterprise be able to start opening up these barriers internally to be able to enable data sharing so that they can drive and take advantage of things like real-time streaming to ultimately improve the customer experience, revenue, et cetera? >> Yeah, it's going to sound really trite, but the first step is getting everyone in a room and talking about what good looks like, what are the low-hanging... And everyone's going to agree on those use cases, there going to say, "These are the things we have to do," right, "We want to lose fewer customers, we want to..." You know, whatever the case may be, so everyone will agree on that. So, the politics don't come into play there. So, "Well, what data do we require for that?" "Okay, well, we've got all this data, great, "no disagreement there." Well, where is the data located? Who's the owner or the steward of that data? And now, who's going to be responsible for monetizing that? And that's where we tend to see the breakdown because when these things cross the line of business and customer always crosses the line of business, you end up with turf wars. And so this, the emergence of the Chief Data Officer, who's responsible for the policy and the prioritization and the ownership of these things is such a key role now, that, and it's not a CIO responsible for data, it is a business aligned executive reporting to the chief, CEO, COO, CFO. Again, business alignment, that tends to be the decision maker or at least the thing that solves for those conflicts across those BUs. And when that happens, then we see real change. But, if there's not that role or that person that can put that line in the sand and say, "This is how we're going to do it," you end up with that political strife and then you end up with silos of information or point solutions across the enterprise and it doesn't serve anyone. >> What are you seeing in terms of that CDO role? I mean, initially the Chief Data Officer was really within regulated businesses, financial services, healthcare, government. And then you've seen it permeate, ya know, to more mainstream. Do you see that role as having legs? A lot of people have questioned that role. What Chief Digital Officer, Chief Data Officer is encroaching on the CIO territory? I'm inferring from your comments that you're optimistic about that role going forward. >> I am, as long as it's well-defined as having unique capabilities that's different than the CIO. Again, I think the first generation of Chief Data Officers were very CIO-liked or CIO-for-data and that's when you ended up with the turf wars. And then it was like, "Okay, well this is "what we're doing." But then you had someone who was sort of a peer for infrastructure and so, it just didn't seem to work out. And so, now we're seeing that role being redefined, it's less about the technology and the tools and the infrastructure, and it's more about the policies, the consistency, the architectures. >> You know I'd observe, I wonder if we can talk about this for a little bit, it's the CDO role. To me, one of the first things a CDO has to do is understand how a company gets value out of its data, what is the, and if it's a full profit company, what's the monetization, where does that come from? Not selling the data, as we were talking about earlier. And then there is what data, what data, where are, what data architecture, data sources, how do we give access to that? And then quality, data quality seems to be something that they worry about. And then skills, not, none, no technology in here. And then somehow they're going to form relationships with the line of business and it's simultaneous to figuring that out. Does that seem like a reasonable framework for the CIO, CDOs job? >> It does, and you call them Chief Data Governance Officer, I mean, it really falls under the umbrella of governance. It's about standards and consistency, but also these policies of, there are finite resources, whether we're talking people or computes. What do you do when there's not enough resources and more demand? How do you prioritize the things that the business does? Well, do you have policies and matrices that say, "Okay, well, is it material, actionable, timely?" "Then yes, then we'll proceed with this." "No, it doesn't pass." And it doesn't have to be about money. However the organization judges itself is what it should be based on. So, whether we're talking non-profit, we helped a school system recently better align kids with schedules and also learning abilities by sitting them next to each other in classes, there's no profit in that other than the education of children, so every organization judges itself or measures itself a little differently, but it comes back to those KPIs. What are your KPIs, how does that align to business initiatives? And then everything should flow from there. Now, I'm not saying it's easy work. Data governance is the hardest thing to do in this space and that's why I think so few organizations take it on 'cause it's a long, slow process and, ya know, you should've started 10 years ago on it and if you haven't, it feels like this mountain that is really high to climb. >> What you're saying is outcome driven. >> Yeah. >> Independent of the types of organizations. I want to talk about innovation, I've been asking a lot of people this week, do you feel like Big Data, ya know, the meme of Big Data that was created eight, 10 years ago, do you feel like it lived up to its promises? >> That's a loaded question. I think if you were to ask the back office enterprises, I would say yes. In terms of customers feeling it, probably not, because when you use an Uber app to hail a cab and pay $3.75 to go across town, it feels like a quality of life, but you don't know that that's a data-driven decision. As a consumer, your average consumer, you probably don't feel that. As you're clicking through Amazon and they know, sort of, the goods that you need, or the fact that they know what you're going to need and they've got it in a warehouse that they can get to you later that day, it doesn't feel like a Big Data solution, it just feels like, "Hey, the people I'm doing business with, they know me better." People don't really understand that that's a Big Data and analytics concept, so, has it lived up to the hype? Externally, I think the perception is that it has not, but the businesses that really get it, feel that absolutely it has. That's 'cause you, do you agree it's kind of bifurcated? >> Matt Maccaux: Yeah, it is. >> The Spotify's and the Ubers and the Airbnb's that are crushing it and then there's a lot of traditional enterprises that are still stove pipe and struggling. >> Yeah, it's funny, when we talk to customers, we've got our introductory power points, right, it always talks about the new businesses and the old businesses and, and I'm finding that that doesn't play very well anymore with enterprise customers. They're like, "We're never going to be the Uber "of our industry, it's not going to happen "if I'm a fortune 100 legacy, it's not going to happen." "What I really want to do, though, "is help my customers or make more money here, "I'm not going to be the Uber, it's just not going to happen." "We're not the culture, we're not the, we're not set up "that way, we have all of this technical legacy stuff, "but I really want to get more value out of my data, "how do I do that?" And so that message resonates. >> Isn't that in some ways, though, how do you feel about this, is it a recipe for disruption, where that's not going to happen, but something could happen where somebody digitizes your business? >> Yes, absolutely, if there are organizations, if you're in the fortune 500 and you are not worried about someone coming along and disrupting you, then you are probably not doing the right job. I would be kept awake every night, whether it was financial services or industrial manufacturing. >> Dave Vellante: Grocery. >> Nobody thought that the taxis, who the hell would come in and disrupt the cab industry? Ya got to hire all these people, the cars are junk, the customer experience is awful. Well, someone has come along and there's been an industry related to this, now they have their bumps in the road, so are they going to be disrupted again or what's the next level of disruption? But, I think it is technology that fuels that, but it's also the cultural shift as part of that, which is outside the technologies, the socioeconomic trends that I think drive that, as well. >> But even, ya know, and we've got just a few seconds left, the cultural shift internally. It sounds like, from what you're describing, if an enterprise is going to recognize, "I'm not going to compete with an Uber or an Airbnb "or a Netflix, but I've got to be able to compete "with my existing peers of enterprise organizations," the CDO role sounds like it's a matter of survivability. >> Yes. >> Without putting that in place, you can't capitalize on the value of data monetized and et cetera. Well guys, I wish we had more time 'cause I think we're opening a can of worms here, but Dave, Matt thanks so much for having this conversation. Thank you for stopping by. >> Thanks for having me here, it was a real pleasure. >> Likewise. We want to thank you for watching theCube. We are continuing our coverage of our event, Big Data SV in downtown San Jose. For Dave Vellante, my co-host, I'm Lisa Martin. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest after a short break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose it's The Cube presenting Big Data, Silicon Valley brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. >> Good morning. Welcome to The Cube. We are on day two of our coverage our event Big Data SV. I'm Lisa Martin with my cohost Dave Vellante. We're down the street from the Strata Data Conference. This is The Cube's tenth big data event and we had a great day yesterday learning a lot from myriad guests on very different nuances of big data journey where things are going. We're excited to welcome back to The Cube an alumni, Octavian Tanase, the Senior Vice President of Data ONTAP fron Net App. Octavian, welcome back to The Cube. >> Glad to be here. >> So you've been at the Strata Data Conference for the last couple of days. From a big data perspective, what are some of the things that you're hearing, in terms of from a customer's perspective on what's working, what challenges, opportunities? I'm very excited to be here and learn about the innovation of our partners in the industry and share with our partners and our customers what we're doing to enable them to drive more value out of that data. The reality is that data has become the 21st Century gold or oil that powers the business and everybody's looking to apply new techniques, a lot of times machine learning, deep learning, to draw more value of the data, make better decisions and compete in the marketplace. Octavian, you've been at NetApp now eight years and I've been watching NetApp, as we were talking about offline, for decades and I've seen the ebb and flow and this company has transformed many, many times. The latest, obviously cloud came in, flash came into play and then you're also going through a major transition in the customer based to clustered ONTAP. You seemed to negotiate that. NetApp is back, thriving, stock's up. What's happening at NetApp? What's the culture like these days? Give us the update. >> I think we've been very fortunate to have a CEO like George Kurian, who has been really focused on helping us do basically fewer things better, really focus on our core business, simplify our operations and continue to innovate and this is probably the area that I'm most excited about. It's always good to make sure that you accelerate the business, make it simpler for your customers and your partners to do business with you, but what you have to do is innovate. We are a product company. We are passionate about innovation. I believe that we are innovating with more pace than many of the startups in the space so that's probably the most exciting thing that has been part of our transformation. >> So let's talk about big data. Back in the day if you had a big data problem you would buy a big Unix box, maybe buy some Oracle licenses, try to put all your data into that box and that became your data warehouse. The brilliance of Hadoop was hey we can leave the data where it is. There's too much data to put into the box so we're going to bring five megabytes to code to a petabyte of data. And the other piece of it is CFOs loved it, because we're going to reduce the cost of our expensive data warehouse and we're going to buy off the shelf components: white box, servers and off the shelf disk drives. We're going to put that together and life will be good. Well as things matured, the old client-server days, it got very expensive, you needed enterprise grade. So where does NetApp fit into that equation, because originally big storage companies like NetApp, they weren't part of the equation? Has that changed? >> Absolutely. One of the things that has enabled that transformation, that change is we made a deliberate decision to focus on software defined and making sure that the ONTAP operating system is available wherever data is being created: on the edge in an IoT device, in the traditional data center or in the cloud. So we are in the unique position to enable analytics, big data, wherever those applications reside. One of the things that we've recently done is we've partnered with IDC and what the study, what the analysis has shown is that deploying in analytics, a Hadoop or NoSQL type of solution on top of NetApp is half the cost of DAS. So when you consider the cost of servers, the licenses that you're going to have to pay for, these commercial implementations of Hadoop as well as the storage and the data infrastructure, you are much better off choosing NetApp than a white box type of solution. >> Let's unpack that a little bit, because if I infer correctly from what you said normally you would say the operational costs are going to be dramatically lower, it's easier to manage a professional system like a NetApp ONTAP, it's integrated, great software, but am I hearing you correctly, you're saying the acquisition costs are actually less than if I'm buying white box? A lot of people are going to be skeptical about that, say Octavian no way, it's cheaper to buy white box stuff. Defend that statement. >> Absolutely. If you're looking at the whole solution that includes the server and the storage, what NetApp enables you to do if you're running the solution on top of ONTAP you reduce the need for so many servers. If you reduce that number you also reduce the licensing cost. Moreover, if you actually look at the core value proposition of the storage layer there, DAS typically makes three copies of the data. We don't. We are very greedy and we're making sure that you're using shared storage and we are applying a bunch of storage efficiency techniques to further compress, compact that data for world class storage efficiency. >> So cost efficiency is obviously a great benefit for any company when they're especially evolving, from a digital perspective. What are some of the business level benefits? You mentioned speed a minute ago. What is Data ONTAP and even ONTAP in the cloud enabling your enterprise customers to achieve at the business level, maybe from faster time to market, identifying with machine learning and AI new products? Give me an example of maybe a customer that you think really articulates the value that ONTAP in the cloud can deliver. >> One of the things that's really important is to have your data management capability, whatever the data is being produced so ONTAP being consumed either as a VM or a service ... I don't know if you've seen some of the partnerships that we have with AWS and Azure. We're able to offer the same rich data management capabilities, not only the traditional data center, but in the cloud. What that really enables customers to do is to simplify and have the same operating system, the same data management platform for the both the second platform traditional applications as well as for the third platform applications. I've seen a company like Adobe be very successful in deploying their infrastructure, their services not only on prem in their traditional data center, but using ONTAP Cloud. So we have more than about 1,500 customers right now that have adopted ONTAP in the AWS cloud. >> What are you seeing in terms of the adoption of flash and I'm particularly interested in the intersection of flash adoption and the developer angle, because we've seen, in certain instances, certain organizations are able to share data off of flash much more efficiently that you would be, for instance, of a spinning disk? Have you seen a developer impact in your customer base? >> Absolutely I think most of customers initially have adopted flash, because of high throughput and low latency. I think over time customers really understood and identified with the overall value proposition in cost of ownership in flash that it enables them to consolidate multiple workloads in a smaller footprint. So that enables you to then reduce the cost to operate that infrastructure and it really gives you a range of applications that you can deploy that you were never able to do that. Everybody's looking to do in place, in line analytics that now are possible, because of this fast media. Folks are looking to accelerate old applications in which they cannot invest anymore, but they just want to run faster. Flash also tends to be more reliable than traditional storage, so customers definitely appreciate that fewer things could go wrong so overall the value proposition of flash, it's all encompassing and we believe that in the near future flash will be the defacto standard in everybody's data center, whether it's on prem or in the cloud. >> How about backup and recovery in big data? We obviously, in the enterprise, very concerned about data protection. What's similar in big data? What's different and what's NetApp's angle on that? >> I think data protection and data security will never stop being important to our customers. Security's top of mind for everybody in the industry and it's a source of resume changing events, if you would, and they're typically not promotions. So we have invested a tremendous deal in certifications for HIPAA, for FIPS, we are enabling encryption, both at rest and in flight. We've done a lot of work to make sure that the encryption can happen in software layer, to make sure that we give the customers best storage class efficiency and what we're also leveraging is the innovation that ONTAP has done over many years to protect the data, replicate its snapshots, peering the data to the cloud. These are techniques that we're commonly using to reduce the cost of ownership, also protect the data the customers deploy. >> So security's still a hot topic and, like you said, it probably always will be, but it's a shared responsibility, right? So customers leveraging NetApps safe or on prem hybrid also using Azure or AWS, who's your target audience? If you're talking to the guys and gals that are still managing storage are you also having the CSO or the security guys come in, the gals, to understand we've got this appointment in Azure or AWS so we're going to bring in ONTAP to facilitate this? There's a shared responsibility of security. Who's at the table, from your perspective, in your customers that you need to help understand how they facilitate true security? >> It's definitely been a transformative event where more and more people in IQ organizations are involved in the decisions that are required to deploy the applications. There was a time when we would talk only to the storage admin. After a while we started talking to the application admin, the virtualization admin and now you're talking to the line of business who has that vested interest to make sure that they can harness the power of the data in their environment. So you have the CSO, you have the traditional infrastructure people, you have the app administration and you have the app owner, the business owner that are all at the table that are coming and looking to choose the best of breed solution for their data management. >> What are the conversations like with your CXO, executives? Everybody talks about digital transformation. It's kind of an overused term, but there's real substance when you actually peel the onion. What are you seeing as NetApp's role in effecting digital transformations within your customer base? >> I think we have a vision of how we can help enterprises take advantage of the digital transformation and adopt it. I think we have three tenants of that vision. Number one is we're helping customers harness the power of the cloud. Number two, we're looking to enable them to future proof their investments and build the next generation data center. And number three, nobody starts with a fresh slate so we're looking to help customers modernize their current infrastructure through storage. We have a lot of expertise in storage. We've helped, over time, customers time and again adopt disruptive technologies in nondisruptive ways. We're looking to adopt these technologies and trends on behalf of our customers and then help them use them in a seamless safe way. >> And continue their evolution to identify new revenue streams, new products, new opportunities and even probably give other lines of business access to this data that they need to understand is there value here, how can we harness it faster than our competitors, right? >> Absolutely. It's all about deriving value out of the data. I think earlier I called it the gold of the 21st Century. This is a trend that will continue. I believe there will be no enterprise or center that won't focus on using machine learning, deep learning, analytics to derive more value out of the data to find more customer touch points, to optimize their business to really compete in the marketplace. >> Data plus AI plus cloud economics are the new innovation drivers of the next 10, 20 years. >> Completely agree. >> Well Octavian thanks so much for spending time with us this morning sharing what's new at NetApp, some of the visions that you guys have and also some of the impact that you're making with customers. We look forward to having you back on the program in the near future. >> Thank you. Appreciate having the time. >> And for my cohost Dave Vellante I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube live on day two of coverage of our event, Big Data SV. We're at this really cool venue, Forager Tasting Room. Come down here, join us, get to hear all these great conversations. Stick around and we'll be right back with our next guest after a short break. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose, it's theCUBE, presenting Big Data Silicon Valley, brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partner. (upbeat electronic music) >> Welcome back to The Cube. I'm Lisa Martin with George Gilbert. We are live at our event, Big Data SV, in downtown San Jose down the street from the Strata Data Conference. We're joined by a new guest to theCUBE, Sastry Malladi, the CTO Of FogHorn. Sastry, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, thank you, Lisa. >> So FogHorn, cool name, what do you guys do, who are you? Tell us all that good stuff. >> Sure. We are a startup based in Silicon Valley right here in Mountain View. We started about three years ago, three plus years ago. We provide edge computing intelligence software for edge computing or fog computing. That's how our company name got started is FogHorn. For our particularly, for our IoT industrial sector. All of the industrial guys, whether it's transportation, manufacturing, oil and gas, smart cities, smart buildings, any of those different sectors, they use our software to predict failure conditions in real time, or do condition monitoring, or predictive maintenance, any of those use cases and successfully save a lot of money. Obviously in the process, you know, we get paid for what we do. >> So Sastry... GE populized this concept of IIoT and the analytics and, sort of the new business outcomes you could build on it, like Power by the Hour instead of selling a jet engine. >> Sastry: That's right. But there's... Actually we keep on, and David Floor did some pioneering research on how we're going to have to do a lot of analytics on the edge for latency and bandwidth. What's the FogHorn secret sauce that others would have difficulty with on the edge analytics? >> Okay, that's a great question. Before I directly answer the question, if you don't mind, I'll actually even describe why that's even important to do that, right? So a lot of these industrial customers, if you look at, because we work with a lot of them, the amount of data that's produced from all of these different machines is terabytes to petabytes of data, it's real. And it's not just the traditional digital sensors but there are video, audio, acoustic sensors out there. The amount of data is humongous, right? It's not even practical to send all of that to a Cloud environment and do data processing, for many reasons. One is obviously the connectivity, bandwidth issues, and all of that. But the two most important things are cyber security. None of these customers actually want to connect these highly expensive machines to the internet. That's one. The second is the lack of real-time decision making. What they want to know, when there is a problem, they want to know before it's too late. We want to notify them it is a problem that is occurring so that have a chance to go fix it and optimize their asset that is in question. Now, existing solutions do not work in this constrained environment. That's why FogHorn had to invent that solution. >> And tell us, actually, just to be specific, how constrained an environment you can operate in. >> We can run in about less than 100 to 150 megabytes of memory, single-core to dual-core of CPU, whether it's an ARM processor, an x86 Intel-based processor, almost literally no storage because we're a real-time processing engine. Optionally, you could have some storage if you wanted to store some of the results locally there but that's the kind of environment we're talking about. Now, when I say 100 megabytes of memory, it's like a quarter of Raspberry Pi, right? And even in that environment we have customers that run dozens of machinery models, right? And we're not talking -- >> George: Like an ensemble. >> Like an anomaly detection, a regression, a random forest, or a clustering, or a gamut, some of those. Now, if we get into more deep learning models, like image processing and neural net and all of that, you obviously need a little bit more memory. But what we have shown, we could still run, one of our largest smart city buildings customer, elevator company, runs in a raspberry Pi on millions of elevators, right? Dozens of machinery algorithms on top of that, right? So that's the kind of size we're talking about. >> Let me just follow up with one question on the other thing you said, with, besides we have to do the low-latency locally. You said a lot of customers don't want to connect these brown field, I guess, operations technology machines to the internet, and physically, I mean there was physical separation for security. So it's like security, Bill Joy used to say "Security by obscurity." Here it's security by -- >> Physical separation, absolutely. Tell me about it. I was actually coming from, if you don't mind, last week I was in Saudi Arabia. One of the oil and gas plants where we deployed our software, you have to go to five levels of security even to get to there, It's a multibillion dollar plant and refining the gas and all of that. Completely offline, no connectivity to the internet, and we installed, in their existing small box, our software, connected to their live video cameras that are actually measuring the stuff, doing the processing and detecting the specific conditions that we're looking for. >> That's my question, which was if they want to be monitoring. So there's like one low level, really low hardware low level, the sensor feeds. But you could actually have a richer feed, which is video and audio, but how much of that, then, are you doing the, sort of, inferencing locally? Or even retraining, and I assume that since it's not the OT device, and it's something that's looking at it, you might be more able to send it back up the Cloud if you needed to do retraining? >> That's exactly right. So the way the model works is particularly for image processing because you need, it's a more complex process to train than create a model. You could create a model offline, like in a GPU box, an FPGA box and whatnot. Import and bring the model back into this small little device that's running in the plant, and now the live video data is coming in, the model is inferencing the specific thing. Now there are two ways to update and revise the model: incremental revision of the model, you could do that if you want, or you can send the results to a central location. Not internet, they do have local, in this example for example a PIDB, an OSS PIDB, or some other local service out there, where you have an opportunity to gather the results from each of these different locations and then consolidate and retrain the model, put the model back again. >> Okay, the one part that I didn't follow completely is... If the model is running ultimately on the device, again and perhaps not even on a CPU, but a programmable logic controller. >> It could, even though a programmable controller also typically have some shape of CPU there as well. These days, most of the PLCs, programmable controllers, have either an RM-based processor or an x86-based processor. We can run either one of those too. >> So, okay, assume you've got the model deployed down there, for the, you know, local inferencing. Now, some retraining is going to go on in the Cloud, where you have, you're pulling in the richer perspective from many different devices. How does that model get back out to the device if it doesn't have the connectivity between the device and the Cloud? >> Right, so if there's strictly no connectivity, so what happens is once the model is regenerated or retrained, they put a model in a USB stick, it's a low attack. USB stick, bring it to the PLC device and upload the model. >> George: Oh, so this is sort of how we destroyed the Iranian centrifuges. >> That's exactly right, exactly right. But you know, some other environments, even though it's not connectivity to the Cloud environment, per se, but the devices have the ability to connect to the Cloud. Optionally, they say, "Look, I'm the device "that's coming up, do you have an upgraded model for me?" Then it can pull the model. So in some of the environments it's super strict where there are absolutely no way to connect this device, you put it in a USB stick and bring the model back here. Other environments, device can query the Cloud but Cloud cannot connect to the device. This is a very popular model these days because, in other words imagine this, an elevator sitting in a building, somebody from the Cloud cannot reach the elevator, but an elevator can reach the Cloud when it wants to. >> George: Sort of like a jet engine, you don't want the Cloud to reach the jet engine. >> That's exactly right. The jet engine can reach the Cloud it if wants to, when it wants to, but the Cloud cannot reach the jet engine. That's how we can pull the model. >> So Sastry, as a CTO you meet with customers often. You mentioned you were in Saudi Arabia last week. I'd love to understand how you're leveraging and gaging with customers to really help drive the development of FogHorn, in terms of being differentiated in the market. What are those, kind of bi-directional, symbiotic customer relationships like? And how are they helping FogHorn? >> Right, that's actually a great question. We learn a lot from customers because we started a long time ago. We did an initial version of the product. As we begin to talk to the customers, particularly that's part of my job, where I go talk to many of these customers, they give us feedback. Well, my problem is really that I can't even do, I can't even give you connectivity to the Cloud, to upgrade the model. I can't even give you sample data. How do you do that modeling, right? And sometimes they say, "You know what, "We are not technical people, help us express the problem, "the outcome, give me tools "that help me express that outcome." So we created a bunch of what we call OT tools, operational technology tools. How we distinguish ourselves in this process, from the traditional Cloud-based vendor, the traditional data science and data analytics companies, is that they think in terms of computer scientists, computer programmers, and expressions. We think in terms of industrial operators, what can they express, what do they know? They don't really necessarily care about, when you tell them, "I've got an anomaly detection "data science machine algorithm", they're going to look at you like, "What are you talking about? "I don't understand what you're talking about", right? You need to tell them, "Look, this machine is failing." What are the conditions in which the machine is failing? How do you express that? And then we translate that requirement, or that into the underlying models, underlying Vel expressions, Vel or CPU expression language. So we learned a ton from user interface, capabilities, latency issues, connectivity issues, different protocols, a number of things that we learn from customers. >> So I'm curious with... More of the big data vendors are recognizing data in motion and data coming from devices. And some, like Hortonworks DataFlow NiFi has a MiNiFi component written in C plus plus, really low resource footprint. But I assume that that's really just a transport. It's almost like a collector and that it doesn't have the analytics built in -- >> That's exactly right, NiFi has the transport, it has the real-time transport capability for sure. What it does not have is this notion of that CEP concept. How do you combine all of the streams, everything is a time series data for us, right, from the devices. Whether it's coming from a device or whether it's coming from another static source out there. How do you express a pattern, a recognition pattern definition, across these streams? That's where our CPU comes in the picture. A lot of these seemingly similar software capabilities that people talk about, don't quite exactly have, either the streaming capability, or the CPU capability, or the real-time, or the low footprint. What we have is a combination of all of that. >> And you talked about how everything's time series to you. Is there a need to have, sort of an equivalent time series database up in some central location? So that when you subset, when you determine what relevant subset of data to move up to the Cloud, or you know, on-prem central location, does it need to be the same database? >> No, it doesn't need to be the same database. It's optional. In fact, we do ship a local time series database at the edge itself. If you have a little bit of a local storage, you can down sample, take the results, and store it locally, and many customers actually do that. Some others, because they have their existing environment, they have some Cloud storage, whether it's Microsoft, it doesn't matter what they use, we have connectors from our software to send these results into their existing environments. >> So, you had also said something interesting about your, sort of, tool set, as being optimized for operations technology. So this is really important because back when we had the Net-Heads and the Bell-Heads, you know it was a cultural clash and they had different technologies. >> Sastry: They sure did, yeah. >> Tell us more about how selling to operations, not just selling, but supporting operations technology is different from IT technology and where does that boundary live? >> Right, so typical IT environment, right, you start with the boss who is the decision maker, you work with them and they approve the project and you go and execute that. In an industrial, in an OT environment, it doesn't quite work like that. Even if the boss says, "Go ahead and go do this project", if the operator on the floor doesn't understand what you're talking about, because that person is in charge of operating that machine, it doesn't quite work like that. So you need to work bottom up as well, to convincing them that you are indeed actually solving their pain point. So the way we start, where rather than trying to tell them what capabilities we have as a product, or what we're trying to do, the first thing we ask is what is their pain point? "What's your problem? What is the problem "you're trying to solve?" Some customers say, "Well I've got yield, a lot of scrap. "Help me reduce my scrap. "Help me to operate my equipment better. "Help me predict these failure conditions "before it's too late." That's how the problem starts. Then we start inquiring them, "Okay, what kind of data "do you have, what kind of sensors do you have? "Typically, do you have information about under what circumstances you have seen failures "versus not seeing failures out there?" So in the process of inauguration we begin to understand how they might actually use our software and then we tell them, "Well, here, use your software, "our software, to predict that." And, sorry, I want 30 more seconds on that. The other thing is that, typically in an IT environment, because I came from that too, I've been in this position for 30 plus years, IT, UT and all of that, where we don't right away talk about CEP, or expressions, or analytics, and we don't talk about that. We talk about, look, you have these bunch of sensors, we have OT tools here, drag and drop your sensors, express the outcome that you're trying to look for, what is the outcome you're trying to look for, and then we drive behind the scenes what it means. Is it analytics, is it machine learning, is it something else, and what is it? So that's kind of how we approach the problem. Of course, if, sometimes you do surprisingly occasionally run into very technical people. From those people we can right away talk about, "Hey, you need these analytics, you need to use machinery, "you need to use expressions" and all of that. That's kind of how we operate. >> One thing, you know, that's becoming clearer is I think this widespread recognition that's data intensive and low latency work to be done near the edge. But what goes on in the Cloud is actually closer to simulation and high-performance compute, if you want to optimize a model. So not just train it, but maybe have something that's prescriptive that says, you know, here's the actionable information. As more of your data is video and audio, how do you turn that into something where you can simulate a model, that tells you the optimal answer? >> Right, so this is actually a good question. From our experience, there are models that require a lot of data, for example, video and audio. There are some other models that do not require a lot of data for training. I'll give you an example of what customer use cases that we have. There's one customer in a manufacturing domain, where they've been seeing a lot of finished goods failures, there's a lot of scrap and the problem then was, "Hey, predict the failures, "reduce my scrap, save the money", right? Because they've been seeing a lot of failures every single day, we did not need a lot of data to train and create a model to that. So, in fact, we just needed one hour's worth of data. We created a model, put the thing, we have reduced, completely eliminated their scrap. There are other kinds of models, other kinds of models of video, where we can't do that in the edge, so we're required for example, some video files or simulated audio files, take it to an offline model, create the model, and see whether it's accurately predicting based on the real-time video coming in or not. So it's a mix of what we're seeing between those two. >> Well Sastry, thank you so much for stopping by theCUBE and sharing what it is that you guys at FogHorn are doing, what you're hearing from customers, how you're working together with them to solve some of these pretty significant challenges. >> Absolutely, it's been a pleasure. Hopefully this was helpful, and yeah. >> Definitely, very educational. We want to thank you for watching theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin with George Gilbert. We are live at our event, Big Data SV in downtown San Jose. Come stop by Forager Tasting Room, hang out with us, learn as much as we are about all the layers of big data digital transformation and the opportunities. Stick around, we will be back after a short break. (upbeat electronic music)