>> From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with our leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to theCUBE conversation. I'm coming to you from our Boston area studio. We've been digging into Pesando and the technology that there've been doing. Happy to welcome to the program. Steve Hershkowitz, he's the vice president of worldwide sales with Hewlett Packard enterprise, part of the HPC, HPE Pensando, relationship. Steve, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me, Stu. I'm really happy to be here. >> So, obviously, Pensando made a bit of a splash when they came out at the end of 2019. We were really excited to have the Cube Apple launch, had some big name guests there, including your CEO, Antonio Neri. HPE has an investment and as an OEM of Pensando, So, bring us in us to why this partnership, why this investment from HPE standpoint? >> Well, thanks Stu. So obviously there were a lot of reasons why HP would be interested in a partnership with an innovative company like Pensando standing the fact that you have the MPLS team that had developed, industry changing technologies, for their previous company at Cisco, and leveraging their expertise and their market leadership to bring new innovation to the market, which was very interesting to us. As well as, the partnership that was launched between, Pensando's chairman John Chambers and our CEO, Antonio Neri. And when you hear them speak, they talk about, being partners for life. And so I think what's unique and what's interesting to us is you'll hear our CEO, Antonio talk a lot about HP's evolution as a company and how we are absolutely the edge to Cloud Platform as a service company. And when you have a strategy that involves servicing and consumption, you have to follow the innovation engine and the market transitions up to be able to satisfy your customers and get out in front of some of the market trends. And so the technology and the innovation that Pensando brings to the market is unlike anything else that's available today that anybody else can do. And we saw this as a great opportunity for us to really serve our customers as they move more of their data to the edge and want to apply and distribute a lot of the services to the edge where the data is created and of course, where most of the data is consumed. So it's an exciting partnership for us. We also have a board seat in the company and we're very, very excited about the opportunity and our customers are really, really excited as well about the partnership. >> Yeah, it's interesting. Those of us that have watched the industry long enough, I remember back, John Chambers for many years at HP was one of Cisco's biggest partners, for a long time. It really interesting what you're talking about, some of the new opportunities, what's going on with edge. Bring us inside the partnership a little bit. How has it been going? You've got about six months since it's unveiled to the world. What can you tell us so far, now that it's seen the light of day? >> Well, so the partnership is very, very strong and I think if you ask some of the senior executives on the Pensando side, including some of the board members, they would tell you that the partnership with HPE is different than any other relationship that they have with any other company. And it is that way because we created a very unique bond through our global business unit that's responsible for bringing these products to market and defining the roadmap to a very, very unique go to market strategy that we've developed where we actually have myself leading a go to market engine of people that are helping with the enablement, with the training, with the customer interactions, qualifying opportunities, and really helping to make a market for this technology as we do have first mover advantage. So we work very closely with all aspects of the Pensando team. Our business units are aligned, our development teams are aligned, our sales teams are very, very closely aligned. Their chief revenue officer, Frank Paloma and I are tied at the hip as we bring this technology to market together with both of our sales teams. And then as we look at further innovating together, we are completely locked and aligned on the combined roadmap. So it's a unique partnership. It creates unprecedented opportunity for HPE through this partnership to gain architectural control and help our customers gain architectural control over these next generation data center networks and really make a leapfrog over any of the technologies that are available today. Really two focuses, right? One is in helping the cloud service providers that want to better compete with the 800 pound gorillas, with a much better technology, a faster technology and a technology that leapfrogs anything that they've built. And the other side of that is our ability to help enterprises as we sell more as a service offerings and more edge solutions, help our enterprises make their environments much less complex, much more secure, and really help him improve business application performance so that they can sustain competitive advantage and make their data center networks look a lot more like what the hyperscalers have built, but only a lot better and a lot faster and a lot more secure. >> Yeah. I tell you, Steve, one of the things that I've always been really admired about HP over the years is baking these solutions together. It's not just a bunch of pieces, get them at the customer site and figure it out. But, I worked on standards, I've worked on a lot of solutions over the years and HP and now HPE always makes sure when it gets to the customer, it's together, it works. The time from getting it to being able to use it, really is minimized and that focus on simplicity is something that I've seen time and again from HPE. When it comes to the Pensando solution, how does this fit in with the HPE products? Where is it fit in? What are those solutions look like today? >> It's a really, really good question, Stu. So, initially we're going to market on our ProLiant Rack Server platform and we will launch in June, general availability. These solutions, we've been offering them to customers, very select number of customers through a private skew that we've created, but it fits initially within our Rack Server portfolio. But over time you'll see us start to begin to integrate this across the entire compute portfolio, where it makes sense and where there's a market and where customers are asking for it in addition to some integration points with different business units, right? So we have this relationship is so exciting that almost every business unit within HPE is interested in figuring out what the leverage points are to help solve customer problems and create opportunities for customers. So everything from our blade servers through synergy, through our Aruba relationship, through our software, stack, we're going to be doing a lot more integration. So I think you look out for initially an opportunity to install this digital services platform where you have a lot of Rack Servers and you want to reduce the complexity and really distribute a lot of those network services that are provided today in a centralized fashion. Through a number of different black boxes with a number of different operating systems, a number of different service contracts, move those to the compute edge at the exhaust of an HPE server on a platform that's factory integrated. And that we stand behind them, we support and sell. And you made another comment about support and how HPE does a really good job at making sure that when we sell a solution, it's a tightly integrated solution that scales, that works together and their customers can count on and versus something that's loosely coupled than disjointed as you see a lot of partnerships, which we try and avoid. So one of the parts of this relationship that's unique is that HPE is actually going to be supporting and providing the L1, and the L2 support for this product on a global basis. So when our customers have an issue or they need help, they come to us and it really rounds out the relationship. So it's not just taking a portfolio or a solution and putting it into an HP server. It's a factory integrated, factory tested solution with a lot of different integrations that we stand behind, that we sell and it scales. It'll work just as well with a hundred DSPs and servers as it will with a hundred thousand. >> I'd love to drill in a little bit on, really the customer use cases there. When you talk about edge computing, first of all, there's a lot of misnomers out in the industry. Edge can be anything from the telco edge. I've seen lots of things like network function virtualization. I've talked to HPE about those network offerings in the past through down to kind of IOT devices and everything in between. You said you've got some customers that have been getting early access. Are there any patterns or anything you can tell us about what are those edge use cases that this solution is a good fit for? >> Sure Stu. I think, when we started this journey six months ago, we initially thought that the most common use case that customers would be interested, especially the large New York financial customers were the large financial customers in general would be security, right? And so we had a lot of conversations about things like East West firewall, 70, 80% of the traffic as we talk to customers nowadays, is East West, right? It's application to application traffic, where it used to be North, South and that East West traffic, especially in a virtualized world with virtualized networks and virtualized servers, has created a lot of complexity for customers. So we thought originally, security, micro-segmentation, East, West firewall encryption would be the use cases. But interestingly enough, as we started to talk to customers, what we found out pretty quickly was that many of these customers have lost track because of the sprawl in the growth of the data, in their data centers. It really lost track of which applications are talking to which applications, which people are talking to which people. And in fact, we had some customers tell us that if we were to put your system in and turn on firewall services from day one, we could potentially... it would bring our network to its knees because we've lost track of where everything is going. So, what that's led itself to is a lot of customers very interested in the first use case, which is around visibility, observability and telemetry, giving our customers the ability to really graph out and see their application patterns. Because what you can't see, you really can't secure. And then, and then what we believe will happen over time and we're starting to see this play out, is that those customers, once they have a handle on what their traffic flows are and they have some good telemetry. They have some good services on being able to get that visibility. Then they'll start to define security policy based upon those traffic patterns and use the centralized Pensando policy services manager to distribute that policy, whether it be micro-segmentation for managing and securing, virtualized traffic or East West firewall. And then later on encryption and in a future release. So that's what we're seeing. >> Excellent. I'm like, Oh, great customer data already. What you've been saying really resonates customers today know that pace of change and keeping track of things is really challenging. It's gone from something that people might be able to get a handle to with, to knowing I have to have the automation, the systems the intelligence baked into the system to be able to handle it. All right. So June, this month, you've GA the product, congratulations on getting that. So tell us what you expect to see, the Pensando HP relationship. Are there expansions in the product line? We should be looking forward through the rest of 2020 or any other pieces as look forward? >> Sure. So, we are excited about the June, launch. We're also excited about the fact that we have our large customer show coming up this year, HP discover and we're going to be profiling the new conceptual partnership at discover, giving customers, the ability to see the power of this technology and how it can really help them solve their most pressing business and technical priorities. But we have a full roadmap that we've built out jointly with our partners at Pensando that involves taking this platform across different parts of our portfolio. One of the things that we'll be doing as we launch almost immediately is we're going to be putting this on our flagship GreenLake offer, right? Which is our, as a service offering. And so customers will have the ability to purchase Pensando's solutions under GreenLake and then over time we'll enhance that to provide the detailed metering that our customers have come to know through that platform. So I think you'll see a big splash there. And then there's a lot of work being done to leverage the SDKs that Pensando was providing to provide better integration into some of our workflows and some of our tools. And again, as I mentioned to you earlier, Stu, almost every business unit in our company has got meetings going on with Pensando trying to figure out how they can leverage the power of this technology to help HPE, gain and sustain longterm competitive advantage as customers move from these old legacy, three tier networks that are very complicated to run and they have to stitch the lands together. They have to go through different service chaining to get simple things done. I think there's going to be a lot of work going on across all of our business units to keep Pensando front and center and help us deliver this platform jointly so that we're differentiated. One other thing I think is important too is that we're also building a whole host of differentiated services around this platform. So things like professional services, training services, security assessment services, right. We're gaining a lot of experience through the trial and proof of concept process that we're going through right now and we're building runbooks right? To be able to sort of document exactly what we've learned as we do these big implementations and these trials and be able to bring those to our customers in the form of services that they can use as they look to migrate and modernize these legacy networks. >> Excellent. Well Steve, sounds like just the GA is step one. You and your team have your hands full with a lot of pieces. As you go to market with this and expand that offering, really impressive. We're taking this. Want to give you the final word Pensando HPE and what customers should be looking for? >> Stu, I think our customers should look forward to the GA launch coming out towards the end of June. And this technology is very exciting because if I had to sum it up in basically, three statements it would be this solution combined with what HP has the ability to deliver and support will absolutely help our customers simplify their environments, reduce a lot of operational complexity there by reducing significant cost as they look to rearchitect and build their next generation data center networks. Secondarily, this solution, our combined solution together will help every customer, especially those in the financial industry or highly regulated industries really substantially improve their security posture and reduce the amount of risk that they have in their environments. And then lastly, and I think almost as equally as important, is the fact that this solution, because it's built on a highly programmable, customization, that's traditionally used in networking technology, not necessarily seen at the exhaust of a server, is going to give our customers the ability to exponentially improve their application performance so that when business applications run faster, it gives them opportunities to get to market faster with their own products and drive additional revenue to sustained longterm competitive advantage. So we're excited about the opportunities to... it's going to be a lot of fun. >> Excellent. Well, Steve Hershkowitz, thank you so much for the update. Congratulations on the launch and absolutely we'll be keeping track of the progress. >> Thank you for your time. Happy to be here. >> All right. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (soft music)

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. (smooth music) >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and welcome to this special exclusive presentation from theCUBE. We're digging into Pensando and their Future Proof Your Enterprise event. To help kick things off, welcoming in a friend of the program, Scott Raynovich. He is the principal analyst at Futuriom coming to us from Montana. I believe first time we've had a guest on the program in the state of Montana, so Scott, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks, Stu, happy to be here. >> All right, so we're going to dig a lot into Pensando. They've got their announcement with Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Might help if we give a little bit of background, and definitely I want Scott and I to talk a little bit about where things are in the industry, especially what's happening in networking, and how some of the startups are helping to impact what's happening on the market. So for those that aren't familiar with Pensando, if you followed networking I'm sure you are familiar with the team that started them, so they are known, for those of us that watch the industry, as MPLS, which are four people, not to be confused with the protocol MPLS, but they had very successfully done multiple spin-ins for Cisco, Andiamo, Nuova and Insieme, which created Fibre Channel switches, the Cisco UCS, and the ACI product line, so multiple generations to the Nexus, and Pensando is their company. They talk about Future Proof Your Enterprise is the proof point that they have today talking about the new edge. John Chambers, the former CEO of Cisco, is the chairman of Pensando. Hewlett Packard Enterprise is not only an investor, but also a customer in OEM piece of this solution, and so very interesting piece, and Scott, I want to pull you into the discussion. The waves of technology, I think, the last 10, 15 years in networking, a lot it has been can Cisco be disrupted? So software-defined networking was let's get away from hardware and drive towards more software. Lots of things happening. So I'd love your commentary. Just some of the macro trends you're seeing, Cisco's position in the marketplace, how the startups are impacting them. >> Sure, Stu. I think it's very exciting times right now in networking, because we're just at the point where we kind of have this long battle of software-defined networking, like you said, really pushed by the startups, and there's been a lot of skepticism along the way, but you're starting to see some success, and the way I describe it is we're really on the third generation of software-defined networking. You have the first generation, which was really one company, Nicira, which VMware bought and turned into their successful NSX product, which is a virtualized networking solution, if you will, and then you had another round of startups, people like Big Switch and Cumulus Networks, all of which were acquired in the last year. Big Switch went to Arista, and Cumulus just got purchased by... Who were they purchased by, Stu? >> Purchased by Nvidia, who interestingly enough, they just picked up Mellanox, so watching Nvidia build out their stack. >> Sorry, I was having a senior moment. It happens to us analysts. (chuckling) But yeah, so Nvidia's kind of rolling up these data center and networking plays, which is interesting because Nvidia is not a traditional networking hardware vendor. It's a chip company. So what you're seeing is kind of this vision of what they call in the industry disaggregation. Having the different components sold separately, and then of course Cisco announced the plan to roll out their own chip, and so that disaggregated from the network as well. When Cisco did that, they acknowledged that this is successful, basically. They acknowledged that disaggregation is happening. It was originally driven by the large public cloud providers like Microsoft Azure and Amazon, which started the whole disaggregation trend by acquiring different components and then melding it all together with software. So it's definitely the future, and so there's a lot of startups in this area to watch. I'm watching many of them. They include ArcOS, which is a exciting new routing vendor. DriveNets, which is another virtualized routing vendor. This company Alkira, which is going to do routing fully in the cloud, multi-cloud networking. Aviatrix, which is doing multi-cloud networking. All these are basically software companies. They're not pitching hardware as part of their value add, or their integrated package, if you will. So it's a different business model, and it's going to be super interesting to watch, because I think the third generation is the one that's really going to break this all apart. >> Yeah, you brought up a lot of really interesting points there, Scott. That disaggregation, and some of the changing landscape. Of course that more than $1 billion acquisition of Nicira by VMware caused a lot of tension between VMware and Cisco. Interesting. I think back when to Cisco created the UCS platform it created a ripple effect in the networking world also. HP was a huge partner of Cisco's before UCS launched, and not long after UCS launched HP stopped selling Cisco gear. They got heavier into the networking component, and then here many years later we see who does the MPLS team partner with when they're no longer part of Cisco, and Chambers is no longer the CEO? Well, it's HPE front and center there. You're going to see John Chambers at HPE Discover, so it was a long relationship and change. And from the chip companies, Intel, of course, has built a sizeable networking business. We talked a bit about Mellanox and the acquisitions they've done. One you didn't mention but caused a huge impact in the industry, and something that Pensando's responding to is Amazon, but Annapurna Labs, and Annapurna Labs, a small Israeli company, and really driving a lot of the innovation when it comes to compute and networking at Amazon. The Graviton, Compute, and Nitro is what powers their Outposts solutions, so if you look at Amazon, they buy lots of pieces. It's that mixture of hardware and software. In early days people thought that they just bought kind of off-the-shelf white boxes and did it cheap, but really we see Amazon really hyper optimizes what they're doing. So Scott, let's talk a little bit about Pensando if we can. Amazon with the Nitro solutions built to Outposts, which is their hybrid solution, so the same stack that they put in Amazon they can now put in customers' data center. What Pensando's positioning is well, other cloud providers and enterprise, rather than having to buy something from Amazon, we're going to enable that. So what do you think about what you've seen and heard from Pensando, and what's that need in the market for these type of solutions? >> Yes, okay. So I'm glad you brought up Outposts, because I should've mentioned this next trend. We have, if you will, the disaggregated open software-based networking which is going on. It started in the public cloud, but then you have another trend taking hold, which is the so-called edge of the network, which is going to be driven by the emergence of 5G, and the technology called CBRS, and different wireless technologies that are emerging at the so-called edge of the network, and the purpose of the edge, remember, is to get closer to the customer, get larger bandwidth, and compute, and storage closer to the customer, and there's a lot of people excited about this, including the public cloud providers, Amazon's building out their Outposts, Microsoft has an Edge stack, the Azure Edge Stack that they've built. They've acquired a couple companies for $1 billion. They acquired Metaswitch, they acquired Affirmed Networks, and so all these public cloud providers are pushing their cloud out to the edge with this infrastructure, a combination of software and hardware, and that's the opportunity that Pensando is going after with this Outposts theme, and it's very interesting, Stu, because the coopetition is very tenuous. A lot of players are trying to occupy this edge. If you think about what Amazon did with public cloud, they sucked up all of this IT compute power and services applications, and everything moved from these enterprise private clouds to the public cloud, and Amazon's market cap exploded, right, because they were basically sucking up all the money for IT spending. So now if this moves to the edge, we have this arms race of people that want to be on the edge. The way to visualize it is a mini cloud. Whether this mini cloud is at the edge of Costco, so that when Stu's shopping at Costco there's AI that follows you in the store, knows everything you're going to do, and predicts you're going to buy this cereal and "We're going to give you a deal today. "Here's a coupon." This kind of big brother-ish AI tracking thing, which is happening whether you like it or not. Or autonomous vehicles that need to connect to the edge, and have self-driving, and have very low latency services very close to them, whether that's on the edge of the highway or wherever you're going in the car. You might not have time to go back to the public cloud to get the data, so it's about pushing these compute and data services closer to the customers at the edge, and having very low latency, and having lots of resources there, compute, storage, and networking. And that's the opportunity that Pensando's going after, and of course HPE is going after that, too, and HPE, as we know, is competing with its other big mega competitors, primarily Dell, the Dell/VMware combo, and the Cisco... The Cisco machine. At the same time, the service providers are interested as well. By the way, they have infrastructure. They have central offices all over the world, so they are thinking that can be an edge. Then you have the data center people, the Equinixes of the world, who also own real estate and data centers that are closer to the customers in the metro areas, so you really have this very interesting dynamic of all these big players going after this opportunity, putting in money, resources, and trying to acquire the right technology. Pensando is right in the middle of this. They're going after this opportunity using the P4 networking language, and a specialized ASIC, and a NIC that they think is going to accelerate processing and networking of the edge. >> Yeah, you've laid out a lot of really good pieces there, Scott. As you said, the first incarnation of this, it's a NIC, and boy, I think back to years ago. It's like, well, we tried to make the NIC really simple, or do we build intelligence in it? How much? The hardware versus software discussion. What I found interesting is if you look at this team, they were really good, they made a chip. It's a switch, it's an ASIC, it became compute, and if you look at the technology available now, they're building a lot of your networking just in a really small form factor. You talked about P4. It's highly programmable, so the theme of Future Proof Your Enterprise. With anything you say, "Ah, what is it?" It's a piece of hardware. Well, it's highly programmable, so today they position it for security, telemetry, observability, but if there's other services that I need to get to edge, so you laid out really well a couple of those edge use cases and if something comes up and I need that in the future, well, just like we've been talking about for years with software-defined networking, and network function virtualization, I don't want a dedicated appliance. It's going to be in software, and a form factor like Pensando does, I can put that in lots of places. They're positioning they have a cloud business, which they sell direct, and expect to have a couple of the cloud providers using this solution here in 2020, and then the enterprise business, and obviously a huge opportunity with HPE's position in the marketplace to take that to a broad customer base. So interesting opportunity, so many different pieces. Flexibility of software, as you relayed, Scott. It's a complicated coopetition out there, so I guess what would you want to see from the market, and what is success from Pensando and HPE, if they make this generally available this month, it's available on ProLiant, it's available on GreenLake. What would you want to be hearing from customers or from the market for you to say further down the road that this has been highly successful? >> Well, I want to see that it works, and I want to see that people are buying it. So it's not that complicated. I mean I'm being a little superficial there. It's hard sometimes to look in these technologies. They're very sophisticated, and sometimes it comes down to whether they perform, they deliver on the expectation, but I think there are also questions about the edge, the pace of investment. We're obviously in a recession, and we're in a very strange environment with the pandemic, which has accelerated spending in some areas, but also throttled back spending in other areas, and 5G is one of the areas that it appears to have been throttled back a little bit, this big explosion of technology at the edge. Nobody's quite sure how it's going to play out, when it's going to play out. Also who's going to buy this stuff? Personally, I think it's going to be big enterprises. It's going to start with the big box retailers, the Walmarts, the Costcos of the world. By the way, Walmart's in a big competition with Amazon, and I think one of the news items you've seen in the pandemic is all these online digital ecommerce sales have skyrocketed, obviously, because people are staying at home more. They need that intelligence at the edge. They need that infrastructure. And one of the things that I've heard is the thing that's held it back so far is the price. They don't know how much it's going to cost. We actually ran a survey recently targeting enterprises buying 5G, and that was one of the number one concerns. How much does this infrastructure cost? So I don't actually know how much Pensando costs, but they're going to have to deliver the right ROI. If it's a very expensive proprietary NIC, who pays for that, and does it deliver the ROI that they need? So we're going to have to see that in the marketplace, and by the way, Cisco's going to have the same challenge, and Dell's going to have the same challenge. They're all racing to supply this edge stack, if you will, packaged with hardware, but it's going to come down to how is it priced, what's the ROI, and are these customers going to justify the investment is the trick. >> Absolutely, Scott. Really good points there, too. Of course the HPE announcement, big move for Pensando. Doesn't mean that they can't work with the other server vendors. They absolutely are talking to all of them, and we will see if there are alternatives to Pensando that come up, or if they end up singing with them. All right, so what we have here is I've actually got quite a few interviews with the Pensando team, starting with I talked about MPLS. We have Prem, Jane, and Sony Giandoni, who are the P and the S in MPLS as part of it. Both co-founders, Prem is the CEO. We have Silvano Guy who, anybody that followed this group, you know writes the book on it. If you watched all the way this far and want to learn even more about it, I actually have a few copies of Silvano's book, so if you reach out to me, easiest way is on Twitter. Just hit me up at @Stu. I've got a few copies of the book about Pensando, which you can go through all those details about how it works, the programmability, what changes and everything like that. We've also, of course, got Hewlett Packard Enterprise, and while we don't have any customers for this segment, Scott mentioned many of the retail ones. Goldman Sachs is kind of the marquee early customer, so did talk with them. I have Randy Pond, who's the CFO, talking about they've actually seen an increase beyond what they expected at this point of being out of stealth, only a little over six months, even more, which is important considering that it's tough times for many startups coming out in the middle of a pandemic. So watch those interviews. Please hit us up with any other questions. Scott Raynovich, thank you so much for joining us to help talk about the industry, and this Pensando partnership extending with HPE. >> Thanks, Stu. Always a pleasure to join theCUBE team. >> All right, check out thecube.net for all the upcoming, as well as if you just search "Pensando" on there, you can see everything we had on there. I'm Stu Miniman, and thank you for watching theCUBE. (smooth music)

>>from the Cube Studios in >>Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. Hi. I'm stupid, man. And welcome to a cube conversation. I'm coming to you from our Boston area studio. Happy to welcome to the program. First time guest on the program. Francis Mattis. He is the vice president of engineering at Pensando. Francis. Thanks so much for joining us. >>Thank you. Good to be here. All >>right. So, Frances, you and I actually overlapped. Ah, you know, some of the companies who work with, you know, if anybody familiar with Pensando, you have worked with some of the mpls team over the years through some of those spin ins, but for our audience, give us a little bit about your background. You know, what brought you to help and be part of the team that you started pensando? >>Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I started my career with Advanced Micro Devices in the mid nineties, got out of school, really wanted to build micro processors. And so, Andy, being in Austin, Texas, and be going to ls you for undergrad was perfect sort of alignment. And so I got to say M. D and Austin built K five worked on that team or kind of team with K seven. And, uh, when I came out to California to help with K, and that brought me to California. And then we got into the dot com era and and being a A and B fighting intel, so to speak, seemed like a hard battle. And so, with the dot com era coming, I just saw this perfect opportunity to jump into the Internet. And so that's how we got into building Internet and data communications equipment, went to the show on systems. We talked a little bit about that earlier, and that got me into storage. From there, I got into a company called on GMO, which was building fibre channel sand equipment. So built chips there, and I got to know the Mpls team there. I always say they hired me off the street. And from that point on, while we've been together since Jews 1001 So 19 years, yeah. Yeah, and I've been building silicon with them and systems for almost 20 years now. So we had quite a journey. Yeah, it's been fun. Great >>stuff. Yeah, you know it's going back, you know, niche on talking about ice scuzzy. You know, in the networking world, you know, it's a little bit of a dark arts in general for most people, you know, understanding the networking protocols and all the various pieces and three and four letter acronyms aren't something that most people are familiar with. Pensando, I'm curious. You know what? You know, networking In general, you're like, I work on Internet stuff and we're the tubes that, you know, Things go around. So when when you describe pensando, you know how to explain that to the people that maybe aren't deep into East, west, south, over on under underlay protocols? >>Yeah, absolutely. So for me, pensando was kind of the sort of the culmination of all the things I've done in my career processing, you know, being able to build compute engines that have programmable, starting with microprocessors, being able to do storage and storage networking with Andy on no, we build a computer with druva and the virtualization layers around the Ethernet interfaces in the adapter with what was really our first smart nick, Um, in 6 4007 timeframe and then with STN in CNI, all of these elements kind of came together. These multiple different layers in the infrastructure stack, if you will, and so pensando for me. What was interesting was the explosion of scale in both space and time with the advent of, let's say, 25 gig 50 gig 100 gig to the server, the notion of very dense computing on in each rack and the need for very high scale After doing all of these technologies and seeing where silicon kind of started to fall in place, I was 16 centimeter. It seemed that bringing this kind of technology to the edge very low power with sort of an end to end security architecture and to end policy engine architecture, distributed services as we're doing all seem to naturally fit into place. And the cloud was already proving this morning when I say the cloud, I mean, the hyper scaler is like Amazon and Microsoft. We are already building these platforms. And so yeah, it dawned on me that, uh I didn't think this was possible unless you built the entire platform. We built the entire system. If you build any one piece, the market transition would take a lot longer. And I think this is true. In technology, history tends to repeat itself, starting with mainframes. When IBM built an entire computer and that built the entire computer, HP built these people. So these kinds of things, um, are important if you want to really push a market transition. And so pensando became this opportunity to take all of these things that I've done in my past life and bring them together in a way that would give a complete stack for the purposes of what I call the new computer, which is basically the data center. And so, um, you know, when my mom asks me, you know, what is it that you're doing? I said, Well, it's just imagine the computer you have right now and multiplying by thousands and thousands stacking in Iraq, and anyone can use it at any one time. And we provide the infrastructure and the mechanisms to be able to Teoh, orchestrate and control that very, very high speed layers. So I don't know if that was a long answer. >>No, no, no. It's fascinating stuff, and you know, when I look at the industry, you know cloud. Of course. Is that just make a wave? That changed the way a lot of people look at this. The way we architect things, there was this belief for a number of years. Well, you know, I'm going to go from this complicated mess that I had in my own data centers and cloud was going to be, you know, inexpensive and easy. And I don't think anybody thinks about inexpensive and easy when they look at cloud computing these days, then add edge into these environments. So I guess what I'm asking is, you know, today's environment, you know, we know I t always is additive. So I have various pieces that I need to put together. You talked about building platforms, and how can it be a complete stack? So companies like Oracle, you know, for many years said we can do everything from the silicon all the way up through your application. Amazon in many ways does the same thing they can. You can build everything on Amazon, but they built out their ecosystem. So how does Pensando fit into this? You know, multi cloud, multi dimensional multi vendor. >>So yeah, so that's a good question. so So one of the things we wanted to do is to be able to bring a systematic management layer two header Genius, beauty. And what I mean by that is in any enterprise data center, modern data center, you're gonna have multiple types of computing. You're gonna have virtual machines, you're gonna have their metal, and you're gonna have containers, or at least in the last, say, three or four years. Chances are you'll have some containers and moving there. And so what we wanted to do was be able to Brighton Infrastructure a management mechanism where all of these head Virginia's types of computing could be managed the same way with respect to policy. What I mean by policy is sort of this declarative or intent based model of I have declared what I'd like to see, whether that the network policy or and and security with data in motion and be able to plot apply it in a distributed manner. Across these different types of hetero genius elements, the cloud has the advantage that it's homogenous for the most part. I mean, they own the entire infrastructure and they can control everything on their now our systems will obviously manage the marginal systems as well, and in many ways that's easier. But bringing together these this notion of heterogeneity these types of computing with one management plane one type of interface for the operator, specifically the networking services operator, was fundamental. That and then the second thing is being able to bring the scale and speed to the edge. So a top of rack switch or something in the in the middle of the network is obviously very dense in terms of this Iot capability. So the silicon area that you spend building a high speed switch is really spent for the most part on the Iot, unless typically, 30 to 40% of the area will be Iot and the rest will be very much hardwired control protocols. We know that as we go to STN services and we want, uh, let's say software defined mechanisms in terms of what the policy looks like, what the protocols look like. The ability to change over time in the lifespan of the computer, which is 3 to 5 years, are you want that to be programmable, very difficult to apply a very dense scale in the core of the network. And so it was an obvious move to bring that to the edge where we could plug it into the server effectively, just like we did. Really? In the UCS system. Uh, no system. >>Yeah, some some really tough engineering challenges. You know, for the longest time, it was very predictable in the networking world, You know, you go from one gig to 10 gig. You know, there was a little discussion how we went the next step, whether, you know, 25 50 40 and 100 gig now. But you talk about containerized architectures. You talk about distributed systems with edge. Things change at a much smaller granular level and change much more frequently. So what are some of the design principles and challenges that you make sure that you're ready for what's happening today but also knowing that, you know, technology changes there always coming, and you need to be able to handle, You know, that next thing. Yeah, >>that's right. Yes. So, uh, I think part of the biggest challenges we have are around power with respect to design power. And then what is the usefulness of each transistor? So, um, when you you have sort of a scale of flexibility. See, views are the most flexible, obviously, but have probably the least performance in them. PG A's are pretty useful in terms of its flexibility, but not very dense in terms of its logic capability. And then you have hardwired a six, which are extremely dense, very much purpose built logic, but completely inflexible. And so the design challenge it was put in front of us is how do we find that sweet spot of extremely programmable, extremely flexible, but still having a cost profile that didn't look like an F PGA And God knows the benefits of the CPU. And and that's where this sort of this notion of domain specific processing came in, which is okay, well, if we're going to solve a few problems, we're going to solve them well. And those few problems are going to be we're gonna bring PC services. We're going to bring networking services. We're going to bring stories, services. We're gonna bring security services around the edge of the computer so that we can offload or let's say, partition correctly the computing problem in a data center. And to do that, we knew a core of sea views wasn't going to do a job that's basically borrowing from this guy to pay this other guy. Right? So what we wanted to do was bring this notion of domain specific processing, and that's where our design challenges came in, which is okay, So now we build around this language called P four, What is the most optimal way to pack? The most amount of threads are processing elements into the silicon while managing the memory bandwidth, which is obviously, you know, packet processing is it has been said to be embarrassingly parallel, which is true. However, the memory bandwidth is insane. And so how do we build a system that insurance that memory is not the bottleneck? Obviously, we're producing a lot of data or, uh, computing a lot of data. And so So these were some of our design challenges. All of that within a power envelope where this part of this device could sit at the edge inside of a computer within a typical power profiling by PC, a attached card in a modern computer. So that was a huge design challenge for us. >>Yeah, I'd love to hear, you know, it was a multi year journey toe solution. And I think of the old World. It was very much a hardware centric 18 to 24 months for design and all the tape out you need to do on this. Sounds like obviously there is still hardware, but it is more software driven. Then it would have been, you know, 10 years ago. So give us some of the ups and downs in that journey. Love to hear any. Any stories that you can share their Well, yeah, I >>think you know, good question. It's always there's always ups and downs in anything you do, especially in the start up. And I think one of the biggest challenges we we've faced is, uh, the exact hardware software boundary. So what is it that you want in hardware? What is it that you want in software And, uh, you know, one of the greatest assets and our company depends on who are the people. We have amazing software and hardware architects who work extremely well together because most of us have been together for so long. So, um, so that always helps when you start to partition the problem. We spent the first year of Pensando, which was basically 2017. The company was founded really thinking through this problem, would it for for all the problems, we wanted to solve the goals that were given to us and and security. Okay, so I want to be able to terminate TCP and initiate TLS connections. What's the right architecture for that? I want to be able to do storage off load and be able to provide encryption of data at rest data in motion. I want to be able to do compression these kinds of things. What's the right part of our software boundary for that? What do we what do we hardwire in silicon versus what we make it programmable and silicon, obviously, but still through a computing engine. And so we spent the first year of the company really thinking through those different partitioning problems, and that was definitely a challenge. And we spent a lot of time and and, uh, you helped me conference rooms and white boards figuring that out. And then 2018. The challenge there was now taking this architecture, this sort of technology substrate, if you will that we built and then executing on it, making sure that it was actually going to yield what we hope that would that we would be able to provide the services. When we talk about El four firewall at line rate, that's completely programmable. Uh, we achieved that. Can we do load balancing? And we do all of it with this before processing engine and the innovations we brought before satisfy all of these requirements we put for us. And so 2018 was really about execution. And there you always have. The challenge is in execution. In terms of, you know, things are going to go wrong. It's not. It's not. If it's when and then how do you deal with it? And so again, um, I would say the biggest challenge and execution is, uh, containing the changes. You know, it's so easy for things to change, especially when you're trying to really build a software platform right, because it's always easy to sort of kick the can and say we'll deal with that later and software. But we know that given what we're trying to do, which is build a system that is highly performance, um, you can't get that. Can you have to deal with it when it comes in. So we spend a lot of time doing performance analysis, making sure that all these applications we were building we're going t yield the right performance. And so that was quite a challenge. And then 2019 was kind of the year of shaping the product. Really lots of product design. Okay, now that we have this technology and it does these, he says that we wanted to do these pieces meaning services. What are all the different ways we can shake this product after talking to customers for, you know, months and months and months. You know, Sony is very much custom, customer driven customer centric. So we we were fortunate enough that we got to spend a lot of time with customers and then that brings us out of challenges, right? Because every customer has a unique problems and so I don't know how to reform this product around a solution that solves quite a bit of problems that really brings value. And so that was the those are the challenges in 2019 which we overcame. Now, obviously we have several releases that we've come out with already. We've got a six and the chips and the It's all there now. So now, 2020. Unfortunately, covitz here, But this is this is a year of growth. This is the year that we really bring it out into the world with our partners and our customers and show how this technology has been developed and benefit will benefit customers over over the next years. Two years. >>Frances really appreciate the insight there. Yeah, that that discussion of the hardware versus software brings back memories for May. Lots of heated debates. A CIO What? One of lines you know we've used on the Cube many times is you know, you know, software will eventually work. Hardware will eventually break. So those trade rto >>taught me something over time ago. He said that uh huh, hardware is hard to change. Software is hard to stop changing. So >>that that's a great one to All right, So you gave us through the last three years journey. Give us a little bit. Look, you know, on the next three years and where you expect pensando to be going >>Sure. Where I see pensando in the next three years as we go through this market transition is uh, both a market leader in a thought leader in terms of the next wave of data center edge computing, whether the, uh in the service provider space, whether it be in the enterprise space or whether it be in the cloud space, the hyper hyper scale of space. As I was mentioning in the beginning, we had when we were talking about, uh, the journey. Market transitions of this major really require understanding the entire stack. If you provide a piece and someone else provides a piece, you will eventually get there. But it's a matter of when, and by the time you get there, there's probably something new. So, you know, uh, time in and of itself is an innovation in this area, especially when you're dealing with the market transition like this. And so we've been fortunate enough that we're building the entire system when we go from the transistors to the rest of the FBI's way, have the entire staff. And so where I see us in three years is not only being a market leader in this space, but also being a thought leader in terms of what does domain specific processing look like at the edge. Um, you know, what are the tools? What are the techniques for? Really a z save? Democratizing the cloud bringing, bringing this technology to everyone. >>Excellent. Well, hey, Frances, That has been a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much. Congratulations on the journey so far and I can't wait to see you. How? Thanks for going >>forward. Yeah, we're excited, and I appreciate it. Thank you for your time to. All >>right, check out the cube dot net. We've got lots of back catalogue with pensando. Also, I'm stew minimum. And thank you for watching the Q. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. Hi, I'm stupid, man. And welcome to a cube conversation. I'm coming to you from our Boston area studio, and we're gonna be talking about the networking giant. So, uh, joining me is the first time on the program some of the members been on and the cover launch of Pensando so vivid Jane, his CTO and co founder of Pensando Bipin thanks so much for joining us. >>Thank you. It was very nice talking to you. >>All right, so in a big theme we've been talking about for a number of years now is multi cloud. And, you know, I go back and think about you know, that the concept of cloud and even, you know, I've been around long enough You think about the and one of the challenges you look at is well, security is always a challenge. The other things network bandwidth is not infinite. The speed of light has not been solved, though you know, help us understand is you know the first I guess give our audience a little bit of your background. As I said, anybody in the networking world knows less team, though. Tell us, you know, have you been on the journey with them for all of that? Or And you know what brought you and Sandy? >>Yes. Yes. Um, I mean, I've been in the journey with the team since 2000 and six, so it's pretty long, I would say 14 years now, and it's been tremendous. Um uh, at heart, I'm an engineer who takes, you know, Brian brilliant things and taking upon challenges. And I've got multiple startups before this been in a new era, The more startups before that. And of course, you know, they were not experience more independent startups. And, you know, all through the course, I have gained appreciation for, like, you know, starting all the way from silicon to build a distributed systems and a u io all the way up to the fully consumable, you know, system. So I I totally understand the the angle I need to look at this time in a holistic manner. Having contributed to Cisco, UCS of and Nexus products on. Before joining pensando, I was, um I was contributing with my own open source container networking project, which is quite exciting to see How do you evangelize, You know, my own my own core, and that was fun. And that's where I come from, But, uh, but I I'm I'm a software engineer. To start off it started contributing to a six, then started going into the application world with containers trying to pull a container networking with, Ah, we did a server product with Cisco UCS and on and pretty much all over the stack with respect, participation. So that's my background. Um, but it's being exciting to consider what's next for me. And I was largely trying to see >>so, so definitive, actually, if I If I could jump in there, right, you know, I think back the UCS it was, You know, some of those ways I gather virtualization had been around for quite a number of years at that point. But, you know, how do you optimize it you're in. How do you transform infrastructure toe live for those environments, though? You know, UCS, You know, remember, people get back saying, you know, Cisco getting into services like Well, they are. They are because they're changing that compute model really caught that. You know, Cisco led that way. If the urge instructor, so many things you talked about that we'll get to later in the interview open for station. When I look out today, you know infrastructure's paint a lot and cloud obviously, is a huge impact, but also the application. So help us understand kind of the the waves that were writing together And, you know, what was it that you know in Santo decided to build in order to meet what you know, the customers of a require >>Um So I think, you know, going back to the UCS common that you had We started off thinking, for example, what are what were the challenges with respect is scaling out the deployment of servers and we quickly realized that manageability is number one challenge on. And of course, you know when we speak about manageability, it comes down to the underpinnings of what you're building. Are you Are you able to see the entire infrastructure together, or are you still seeing those big pieces? And that's when I think UCS was born to say that Look, we need to bring everything together that could be consumed in a holistic manner. And for that you have to have all those components there are There are somewhat independent to be consumed as a unified thing. And which is why I think it was a unified computing system. UCS. Um and then I think, you know, and Sanders a journey that takes it to probably not just that concept, but in general, the the challenges and the disruptions that we're seeing to the next level. So, I mean, just to summarize, I would say we started off looking at all the disruptions that are happening in the industry. And there are many of those I'm happy to talk about, which means we looked at, uh and then we looked at What are the consumption models that people are largely, you know, finding it very appealing these days because the days in which you're going to write a spirit to do something is still pretty old you want to be able to consume and most this after consumable way, How can we build, you know, how can you build systems that are programmable in the field? Those kind of things? The consumption model reliability software is the friendly factor there, and highly appealing to you guys and all their last one. You know, at least we also we also wanted to be really heard in the game, competitiveness wise. So those were like the the overarching set of things there that we started to think about, like, what descriptions are we going to solve, um, and how the consumption model needs to be for or ah, for the future of infrastructure. And how can we get that key, which is which is far ahead and better than anything that exists out there? So that's where we started to look at. Let's bring something which is bigger B sphere and and something. Even if we have the possibility of feeling it. Let's go ahead and they're doing their anything. >>Yeah, and absolutely. There's been so much discussion over the last decade or so about about software's eating the world and what's going on there yet you know, your your team mates. It's a lot of times it's been the chip set. There have been some huge ripples in the industry, you know, major acquisitions by some of the big, disruptive companies out there. Apple made a silicon acquisition, you know, everybody paid and that will have. You can't talk about disruption today without talking about Amazon. And, of course, when Amazon bought Annapurna Labs, you know, those of us looking at the Enterprise and the clouds base was like, Keep an eye on this. And absolutely, it's been something over the last year or so now, where we've seen Amazon roll things out and, of course, a critical component of what Amazon's doing from outposts. So with that as the stage there, you talked about wanting to be interesting leading, you know Amazon, you know, is really sick, and it's setting the bar that everyone is measured against. And when I look at the solution pensando, the kind of best comparable analogy that we've seen is, you know, look at what Nitro chip can do. This is an alternative for all of the other 1000 for customers that might not want to get them from Amazon. Is that a fair comparison? And how would you line up what founder is doing compared to what Amazon has done there? >>Um, so you know, what you've seen in the Amazon announcement really is possible. Amazon is a great benchmark to beat eso No make mistakes. We are very happy to say that, you know, we are We are doing by comfortably so But then, you know, Amazon is more than more than just the just the chips that are that they are building. I mean, what you consume is what they're building and underneath the engines are really part up by by the nicety off all these things that they're very, um, having said that, you know, And Sandra was consisting off both the you know, it's recognized us as a team which has been in traditionally building chips. But yet I think you know, the the Iot or the the previous venture from Mpls Team was somewhat of an eye opening as to how bringing things together is much more value in op, ex and and simplifying things is a huge, huge value compared to just putting performance and those things. So why this is important? That is another aspect which is important in trying to simplify things and make it consumable like software. And Sandra itself has probably, you know, I would say, Ah, good chunk, like about 60% of people in software team and not the, you know, basic harbor t This is not to say that, you know, we, you know, we are under emphasizing one versus the other. Software is a bigger beast when you start trying to build all those programs on a programmable and doing that here and start to roll out those applications on. So that's why I think the emphasis on software is there. Having said that, you know, it's the software that runs the data path pipeline. There's also a layer of software that we're building that can help manage all you know, all the product in a more cohesive manner and unified. >>Okay, that's Ah, thank you for laying that out. You mentioned you've got some background and open for definitely an area where, for a number of years, you know, Amazon has not exactly, uh, open source. Not exactly been a strength for AWS. They have put a lot of effort. They've done some president IRS over the last couple of years. >>And >>how do you see open source fitting into the space? What is I kind of the philosophy of pensando when it comes to open source. And where do you see it playing in the You know, this network piece of the multi cloud. >>Yeah, no, I think it's It's ah, it's a squared, relevant in a way that you know of the cloud native movement on how applications with very Onda normalization of AP eyes across multiple clouds. Israel, We are all seeing the benefits offered. And I think that that trend will continue and which is all driven through open source Ah, you know, community that exist in, you know, in the heart of the word. So personally for me, I think I learned a whole lot of things in the open source community. You know, the importance off evangelizing whatever you're working on, the reason to have convinced other people about contributing into what you're working on on. Frankly, I also learned how difficult it is to make revenues in an open source based part of that strategy. So I think you know that those were the things that I got away from it when I was doing my own open source project of container networking. Um, but at the same time, pensando, uh, you know, we have to make sure that we are 100% aligned with anything that's happening in open source. Never replicated, Um, anything that might be that might be happening in open source instead tried to make people use those things in the best possible way and in the most efficient way and the easiest possible way to use those. So our strategy largely is that, you know, embrace open source which exists are there from an infrastructure point of view, we are collaborating and communicating with less of the users are Hello. I think we're going to standardize most of things we're looking in before community. So our stands largely is that, you know, if we are building a programmable platform than the community is what is gonna driver and we are very much working towards a step by step, of course, trying to get through, you know, a stable state where we could we could not just empower people who are who are taking up the open source efforts which are going on. But at the same time, we can also contribute our program are programs into the open source community and defining the right abstractions into into the community. Um, because we came out of stealth pretty recently, you'll start seeing that and helping those activity as Well, >>excellent. Well, you know the launch of Pensando you had a phenomenal lineup. Not only you know, John Chambers obviously has the relationship with your theme, but you know, oh, am partners of Hewlett Packard, Enterprise and IBM, as well as the Marquis of Goldman Sachs. Things look a little bit different in the first half of 2020 and then they didn't end of 29 teams. So, you know, curious, You know that the global pandemic, the rippling financial implications, you know, what does that mean? The pensando. How has that impacted conversations that you're having with your >>Well, one thing I know at a broader level, let me cover, um, where things are heading. And in that sense, you know, I see that network and the infrastructure in general cloud infrastructure networking it's going to become. And we have realized it's this during during during recent early 20 twenties that that is going to be very important to have the have a new underpinning infrastructure that is not just working efficiently, securely, but is, you know, highly cost effective and very high performance, you know, ranging from people who are trying to connect from home to people who are trying to use videoconferencing and people who are going to be more and more use cloud based services even to order simple of the data being, you know, going to source for so network will become essential, you know, essential element for four things as we go forward. And we do see that being embraced by our customers and and things where we were trying to communicate that, you know, look, you will need performance and cost benefits are becoming more and more real Now. It's like, oh, things that we were having things in the pipeline for us. We need to work on that now. And the reason is because the things that we anticipated the demand increase, which is gonna happen over the fear of years, is happening literally in a few months. And so that is what we see. We are definitely, you know, very well poised to take advantage of their of their demand for sure. But also the fact that you know it needs to be done super efficiently. And so I think we are. You know, we are right. Well, I would say, you know, situated to be able to take advantage of start. >>Yeah, absolutely. You know, one thing you can't control as a company is you know what the global situation is when you come out of stealth and, you know, move through some of those early phases, you know, you've been part of You said a number of startups you've been part of been in give us a little bit of the inside baseball of, you know, being part of Rondo. You know, any stories on a little some of the ups and downs on the multi year journey to get where you are today? >>Definitely. I think. You know, um, minutes aren't good. They are largely an execution play. Relatively independent startup is is going to be about you know, how we cracked the overall market market fit and, ah, on execution, Of course, on deal with maybe in a competition in a different way, of course, like maybe big companies are our great partners. At the same time, you have to navigate that. So the overall the overall landscape in Spain and forces forces not is it's quite different. We can be much more border than we are independent company In trying to disrupt almost anything because we don't have any point of view to define per se. We do exactly, You know, what could be the most disruptive way, too, to potentially benefit the users on day? That's a big, you know, big change. I would say, um, we are being but paranoid as well at the same time, impractical to look at. You know how how we could navigate this situation in a very practical may. And the journey off, often independent startup is, you know, personally, for me, this is this is my fourth in different and start and best off. Off off, all independent. Once, I would stay largely because the kind of tradition that we're getting being an independent company is so huge. I'm just concerned about those things. But what We're really trying to trying to ensure that, you know, we can't get our stuff, but I want you and we started. >>Excellent. Guess what? One of the other things about being a startup is You know what you know adjustments You need to make along the way. So I'm curious. As you know, you've gone to some of your early customers. Any feedback or adjustments in some of the use cases or, you know, things that you've learned along the way that you can share. >>Um, fundamentally, at a base level, we haven't shifted from what we started off. We look at disruptions on on how consumption models are going to be changing, how speeds and feeds are gonna become important because, you know, because most law is going to be almost operating, how we how we deliver things into and containers are going to be a primary, you know, vehicle to deliver and build applications. So we recognize those disruptions, and we haven't changed, But normally from those disruptions that we wanted people after her. Uh, but at the same time, I think, you know, as we went and socialize our ideas and on architecture and designs with customers, we realized that that they are giving us lots more feedback on work all we could do and ah, and starting to become like we could take on different segments of market and not just one. So why stick ourselves to the data center power? Why not work on something on edge, blur wine or wine are real solutions for five G where latency and and performance is super crucial. Why don't take up on, you know, branch that use cases. So there are many things that are opening up. Um, and largely the you know, the shift. Or I would say the the inclination of what we should change versus not is happening with respect to where our customers are driving us. And and it is very important to make sure that you know the users of our lives Articulating all of the shift happens as opposed to, uh, you know, as opposed to anything else. We listen to them like super, super carefully, uh, and at the same time trying to make sure that we not only meet their means for you there their demands. So, um, definitely, you know, from the from the overall landscape of things, we are starting to get a lot more than what we are capture, which is good news For the same time, we're trying to also, uh, take on one part. I'm you know, >>all right, Vivienne, I can't let you off the hook as the cto without talking a little bit about that. You know, I think earlier in my career there was the old discussion and said you know, we should have started it, you know, a year or two ago. But, you know, we didn't. So we should start it today with changing pace of technology. You know, I've always said, you know, if I could I'd rather wait a year because I could take the next generation. I can take advantage of all these other things, but I can't wait, because then I'd never ship any things that I need to start now, Give us a little bit, you know, Look out in the future. How is your architecture designed to be able to take advantage of all the wonders coming with five G and everything there, Um, and anything that we should be looking at, You know, through the next kind of 12 18 months on the roadmap that you could share >>your Ah, yes. So, um, I would first of all say that we didn't build a part of, actually, what we build was a platform on which we can build multiple products. And we started we started off going there because we thought that, you know, the the platform that we're building is capable of capable of doing a lot more things than than one use case that we start off with. And so, to that point, I would say that yes. I mean, he started focusing on one product initially on the possibilities off. Trying to take it to multiple segments is is normally very much there. But we are already, you know, having those conversations to see what is the core set of use cases that we could we could get into for different segments. Besides the data center, you know, public Private Data center, you're looking at edge. We're looking by the looking at, Yeah, you mentioned this is as well as the, you know, storage and conversion infrastructure. So I would say that the food of all those things that we're starting to engage is going to start showing up in next 18 months. I could actually I think we are very well boys to take advantage of what we have. The hardware that we're shipping is going to be 100% compatible with four programs, but I don't those. So that is that is lot more possibilities are interesting. More use cases as people. The software's architecture that we have built is very extensible as well. Eh so we believe that. You know, uh, we believe that we can normally satisfy those use cases, but we're starting to you get into those things now, which will start to show up in and actually useful products of unusable for us with customer testimonials and then maybe 12 to 18 months from now. All >>right, well, thank you so much. It's great to catch up with. You really appreciate you coming on. >>Thank you to Because they're talking to you. And, you know, I appreciate your time. >>All right, I'm stew minimum. And be sure to check out the cube dot net for all the coverage. Go see the launch that we did. So in the second half of 2019. Thank you for watching you. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>>from the Cube >>Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. >>I am stupid, man. And welcome to a cube conversation. Really? Please welcome back to the program. One of our Cube alumni, Sony, Ge and Donnie. She is a co founder and also the business off of pensando. Tony, thanks so much for joining us. >>I thank you for having me here. >>All right. So, Sonny, we've had you on the program a few times. You know, those that have watched the program or followed your career? You've had a story career. You know, I've worked with you as a partner back through some of the spinning disk. You're one of the mpls group. And now, of course, Pensando we helped launch towards the end of 2019. I just want to take a step back and, you know, understand, You know, how did you find yourself in the startup world? >>You know, I got involved with startup ventures as part of the Mpls team. This is going back now. Gosh, 20 years ago, in calendar year 2000 my first venture was with Andy ammo. It was a very unique situation that Mario look up on myself or part of a set up on a startup venture. But all four of us, the Mpls group, did not have any equity in it. Look, and I basically what asked to operate within the with that venture to ensure its ultimate success from a product execution on the go to market perspective? Ah, lot of those elements did not exist from a go to market perspective in Cisco at that time, and it was basically a ground up effort for look and me to not have any financial association with the outcome off the Andy, um, a venture, but at the same time, take on the responsibility from the execution perspective and building up the whole go to market. >>Yeah, so, you know, talking about that these startups, you've been apart of two things. First of all, you were part of and, ya know, you ova in CNI. So did you need to learn Italian to be part of these projects? But more importantly, how did how did you work on that? You know, product customer fit, understanding what the build and, you know, you talk about right How do you make some things that festival? It is super challenging. >>Yeah, well, first and foremost, I think I've been fortunate in that the group that we're all part off it is definitely Italian Indian. And some folks, like from Indiana, for example, like Randy Pond, who is part of this venture with us at Pensando. If I if I would go back and take a look at the simple formula, I mean Mario look, and from, ah, they're veterans in this industry. And they typically focused on the conceiving off the idea and the brought up, uh, and starting with a clean slate approach. Of course, I participate from a market validation development, competitive landscape on a business on all related aspects, bringing the product to market on how that maps into customers and partners what we have consistently focused on market disruption. Particularly for the last two decades, the biggest focus has been on what are the market transitions occurring both from a business and a technology perspective on that is ultimately what creates the opportunity to emerge on and drive these concepts into reality and what yourself, in a market leadership position, is to capture the transition at the right time. >>Yeah, I think back. You know, some of your previous ventures and understand, you know, some of the waves of technologies coming together sometimes the maturity of a technology or being able to take advantage of something new to talk specifically about. Pensando what are you know, those waves of change and the technology coming together that makes the opportunity that you're in today? >>Well, I mean, if you go back and you take a look at really what has been exciting about this pensando opportunity has been to look at the unique ability that have been coming upon us. You know, with this market transition where the cloud is moving to the edge, what is ultimately driving this movement to the edge has been the application. Uh, the applications is is you know, whether it's driven by technology trends like five G, for example. Ah, and and the fact that bulk off what the customer's data is being driven is going to be at the edge. That when when you look at the cloud moving to the edge and evolving that with the transitions occurring, ah, this will require deep innovation. Deep innovation in the areas of distributed network processing security, like encryption, full observe ability while you have turned on encryption, traffic engineering and doing it at very low, predictable agency at the speeds of 100 gig and above all, doing it on a small footprint. We were really the only guys and gals who could do this. And we have done it, >>Yeah, so certainly some really big challenges that they laid out there bring >>us inside >>a little bit. You know, customers. You know, I think about, you know, when I've been watching edge computing for the last three or four years. Uh, you know, it's still relatively early days for customers, but there's a lot of technical challenges there, So help us understand how much you know it was you had technology that could help solve something and how much it is driven by some of the customers that you've been talking to over the years >>Now. One of the key things that we learned and this was going back to the early days of Cisco is that everything we were doing, we had the customer at the center off and at the heart off what innovation we were building from an engineering perspective. You want to build things that can have the most impact in the marketplace and within your customer base. So, uh, one of the early times we went back, who do getting our customers involved in the innovations we were bringing to bear. I still have recollections off a blueprint that we had iterated upon, uh, and sitting in a room, whether it was with the likes of Josh Matthew at Goldman Sachs all whether it was with some of our early cloud customers like the Oracle Cloud, to better understand with these innovation and these blueprints, what were their burning problems? What were they used, cases that we could really go and tackle? So it is one thing to think about market destructions. It's another to bring it to life and having customers engaged with you during the early phases. Off as you are incubating, something is a very important item because it helps you focus your biggest energy on the areas so that you can put your arms around what problems are worth solving. And how can you bring that to life with with customers? Use case. And this is something we have done time and over again. So this is a constant refinement off what we have been doing now for now, to over two decades. As I said, >>Yeah, it's, you know, fascinating here. And when you've got the chief business officer idle, Sony, You know, one of the biggest changes, obviously, is if I look back in the spin ins, you kind of understood how to go to market was what was involved the, you know, the Cisco execution machine that the sales process that they had in plug in a product, that they would help. All right, what you're doing now, you've got some, you know, feel, William partnerships. You have relationship with customers, help us understand a little bit. You know the update on the go to market, how you have. I have a solution that fits for not only the end users, but through multiple different, uh, you know, go to market partners. >>So I think it's, you know, it's very important that as a startup we stay very close to our customers and apart, not just men. We are thinking about what the innovation is and how can it solve their problems. But I think in a world where the way we want to go solve for what? The customer where we want the customer, where our customers want us to be our partnerships is a core part of it. I mean, if you look at from the early days we secured successfully funding from our customers and our strategic partners and it is these customers and strategic partners that are shaping the roadmap on are shaping the routes to market on. What we're doing is we're successfully not only delivering the product, so these strategic customers and partners, but we're also then replicating it across the verticals. If you think about in the enterprise space, our focus has been the focus on regulated market markets where security is essential. Real time, observe ability that can increase your security posture is a very important element. So taking the blueprints that we're taking into global financial services customers, the healthcare industry, the the education market on the federal market, then those are the industries that really care about, and I in regulated markets where we can take the blueprint that we have already built on an amplify across those customers. So there again includes alignment and a partnership with HP. We're working very closely that, while recognizing that we will be doing strategic elements only with partners like HP, we're also on boarding and getting certifications done with Dell because most enterprises have at least dual source vendors from a server, so that that is one aspect. The other aspect is working in a high touch model with the cloud customers and having the opportunity to deliver to them Ah, and onboard them from a production worthy perspective while taking that same blueprint and applying it to other cloud customers and other service provider edge providers that can take advantage of the similar capability. >>Yeah, um, I'm curious. Sony, you know, obviously, the cloud is a space that has been going through a lot of change and accelerating. You know, I'd say much faster than traditional networking did. So you know, curious what you see what you're hearing from customers when they talk about you know, their needs for your solution, what they're doing with multi cloud environment. What is that? That landscape you. And I guess we would love to hear a little bit about how you would compare and contrast yourself. The other solutions out there the one that comes to mind, of course, is you know, eight of us what they're doing with the Annapurna chip in there nitro offering as part of their out. >>You know, as I mentioned earlier, I think the cloud is pushing to the edge. There's a high demand for a lot of packet processing needs with these New Age applications. Customers want to build on and give the you know, we want to be in a position to provide through the democratization and open availability off our products to multiple cloud providers, our technology and as they are experiencing tremendous growth, they're seeking to build cloud with more capacity, with greater degree off security and services functionality. And the ability to process a lot of data at the edge is with millions of simultaneous connections happening at a very small footprint. And that's where we come in. The value that we are essentially providing who not only the existing cloud strategic partners but additional cloud customers we're taking into production this year is that we are enabling them to leapfrog the nitro technology on multiple, whether it is the ability to ah have predictably low latency on and consistently low jitter in the nanoseconds. That is the eight times superior than what a nitro can do today, or the ability to pack their toe process up to nine times more backend processes in the millions of on the ability to do it in a power footprint, which is almost 1/3 that of what you would need on AWS nitro, where they need five times more nitro elements than then we can with a single device, Um, or whether it is the ability now to handle not just power and latency, but millions off flows that can run simultaneously on maintaining the state of all of those and the power of the end, the ability to run multiple services. Uh, with security turned on at the same time are all elements that really differentiate us on. This technology is now readily available to all of us. >>All right, so I understand some of the technical issue items that you're stating there. What I'm curious about is when I look at out both, most customers don't really think about the night. It's that Amazon's providing an extension of their solution into my environment, and they manage everything and so you know, you can't talk about multi cloud environment without talking about Amazon is every customer almost everything right? More than one cloud in one of them is almost always Amazon, though. How does your solution fit into that whole discussion? And then? >>So I think that, you know, one of the things that becomes very important is that if I put my customer enterprise customer hat on, I want to be an enabling my private cloud the private cloud that I build. You have the ability to not just have the option to the port and Amazon cloud, but I typically already and minimal child and barn. So while Outpost and Nitro Nitrogen really enabling, are supposed to deliver those services on our customer's premises, it's only allowing that customer to be locked into one way off dealing with one public cloud company. But if I had to go and think about as I build out my hybrid cloud strategy as an enterprise customer, I want to have the same building blocks on the same policy models that are consistent with all the with the entire dress off cloud vendors that I'm dealing with. The bulk of our customers are essentially telling us I don't want to be locked into a single public cloud company from a hybrid strategy. I want to have the ability to drive a public, private cloud architect that is cloud like from a policy delivery perspective. But at the same time, I want to have the flexibility off deploying a multi cloud and BART, and what we would provide them is the consistency off that same policy model that you would only find in a public cloud with the freedom to not have to buy themselves or lock themselves up into a single public cloud costs. >>So your team, you said, over two decades of experience, there have been some global impacts that have happened during that you got together in 2000. 2001 was right there in front of you that the 2008 you know, down in there, though you're in 2020 obviously the global endemic, as you know, broad financial ripples. How's this impacting Dondo? How's that impacting your discussions with your partners and your customers? >>Well, you know, honestly, I would say that we, like everyone else, have been affected by the pandemic, and we pray that everyone recovers soon with minimum lost to themselves and their families. And this is something very personal. This is here. I feel very passionate about hoping that everybody comes through with this on and their families are all OK. That's all the most important thing in my mind now for us, from a pandemic perspective. What this has done is it has made us more resolute to continue to execute remotely to the best of our ability to meet our customers. Expectations. The advice that I would give to other startups is Keep your head down. Focus on the 80 20 rule, execute on 20% of the things that need to be done, that we'll have 80% of the impact to your business, including undeterred product execution. Stay close to your customers and your partners. Spend your cash judiciously. You know, be very careful on where you're spending your money to make it last. As long as you can ride this pandemic out and double down on being close to your partners and customers. Fortify your sales plans. Meet your customers where they are not where you thought they were, but where they really are and partner with them on this journey and partner with your supply chain. You're going to need that. So this is your time to really be a partner to them, as opposed to see how can you change them? No, no. The really partner with your supply chain Because you're gonna need that. >>Yeah, that's a very sound advice there, Sony. While we're talking advice that, you know, you're very successful career, I'm wondering what advice you would give the other women look at pursuing careers. In fact, specifically, if you know they wanted, you know, start a startup, be a founder, whether that in Silicon Valley or outside, what advice would >>you know? My advice would be to have an undeterred focus. Focus is extremely important. Look, I used to always remind me, Sony, when you're focused on two things, you're d focus. So focus on data. Focus, be driven. Believe in the vision that you have set out for yourself and your team on and keep your eye on the customer. I think in customers successful on your success. That's the message I would give. I would give that same message. My female and the male colleagues. >>Alright, well, we know that you and your team. Sony are very focused, so I'll give you the final word. Gives a little look forward if we go forward. You know, 18 to 24 months. What should we be expecting to see from PENSANDO and your solution? >>Well, in the next 18 to 24 months, we would like to meet and hopefully also exceed our customer's expectation in terms of product execution and the ramp off course. Profitability will be a very important aspect that we're going to keep a very close eye. I think it's too early to be thinking of an ideal, and our focus remains to be on customer success. We have been in the market for a little over. I was a little less than six months. Ah, with the product, September 2019 October 2019 is really when we launched the company on and, uh, the customer always is at the center of everything we do. So that's where we're gonna be focusing on product execution and ramp ramp off product, ramp off estimates. >>Well, so needy. And Dani, it's a pleasure to catch up with you. Thank you so much in the state. >>Thank you. You too. >>Alright. Be sure to check out the cube dot net for all the interviews, you can go see the launch videos that did at go back office in New York City from 2019. If you go to the cube dot net and many more interviews from Sony and her team, I'm stew Minimum. And thank you for watching you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world this is a cube conversation CIOs and CISOs of industries that have been hard hit see significant near term and many permanent shifts to their IT and security strategies this was the consensus of four technology executives at leading companies that are feeling the brunt of the corona virus pandemic welcome to this week's cube insights powered by ETR my name is Dave Volante and in this breaking analysis we want to accomplish three things first we want to tap into a new piece of research from ETR it involves an intimate focus group like set up via an open discussion with leading technology executives we interviewed Eric Bradley the managing director of et ours then program and we'll bring him into this discussion the next thing we want to do is we want to drill in to the various sector commentaries from the four leaders third we're gonna comment an hour take try to add some color and then share with you some of the specific vendor commentary that was called out by the executives let's start by looking at what et our event is et our van is a roundtable discussion it applies a tried-and-true methodology similar to a focus group or in-depth interviews what we sometimes in the research business call ID is ETR invites execs in from its community to participate in a private but open conversation et our clients get to listen in the names of the execs and their companies are transparent but the cube is only allowed to refer to them generically as shown on this slide now we can validate these participants they are legit CIOs and CISOs some and very well-known firms now what I want to do is summarize the CIO and seaso sentiment from this then discussion the overall budget impact for these four organizations is very very severe essentially large project projects are being put on hold although digital transformation initiatives remain a priority there were really four significant areas of emphasis that were cited by these execs cloud-first on-prem is losing out to cloud SAS and of course remote access solutions in fact the best comment on the panel was as a service is saving our SAS traditional networking is shifting to SD win especially rigid MPLS networks securing endpoints and zero trust solutions are the winners and there are a number of vendors rising to the occasion that will talk about it let's see how Eric Bradley of ETR summarizes the venn to summarize what we're seeing here was the real winners and losers are clear not everyone was prepared to have it work from home strategy not everyone was prepared to send their workers out there VPN wasn't didn't have enough bandwidth so there was a real quick uptick in spending but longer-term we're starting to see that these changes will be become more permanent so the real winners and losers right now we're going to see on the losers side traditional networking the MPLS networking isn't a lot of trouble according to all the data and the commentary that we see it's expensive it's difficult to ramp up bandwidth as quickly as you need and it doesn't support remote ok what I want to do now is I want to take a look at some of the verbatim comments and I'll just I'll read them from this slide all spending is shut down 70% of big projects are cut all next-gen projects have been shelled the relationship with our SAS vendor has been a miracle we're accelerating from MPLS to sd when on top of secure gateway technologies these will win this was interesting our business continuity plans were way too DR focused essentially we weren't prepared now let's unpack the cloud first commentary and give you some additional color I feel like all we do around here sometimes is talk about the cloud but it's clear from the data in the ETR data set surveys and the venn that in other data from the cube that that the cloud is only going to be accelerated we said this in 2008 in the 2009 downturns have been good to cloud one of the execs literally said I would like to see my data centers completely deleted Wow let's listen to Erik Bradley's take on this comment I was also shocked about that comment that gentleman also stated that his executives outside of the eyeteeth area the CEO the CFO had never ever ever wanted to discuss cloud they did not want to discuss work from home they did not want to discuss remote access he said that conversation has changed immediately so we've been talking a lot about those aspects of people and process and technology that might be permanent post kovat and clearly you see c-level execs as having a bit of an awakening for things like cloud and work from home not that they didn't see them before but these things are gonna accelerate in our view I want to spend a minute talking about networks SAS and bring cloud again into the discussion I gotta say the panel members really trashed MPLS networks in a big way let me explain MPLS stands for multi-protocol label switching you find this type of infrastructure in big telecom networks and it's there to route traffic and pls is used to create dedicated and and essentially reliable connections it enables things like VPNs quality a service management traffic engineering or shaping but well MPLS is definitely cheaper than t1 it's more expensive than Ethernet now I came into prominence well before the cloud and these execs see it is as outdated and inflexible and this is where SD wind comes into play software-defined wide area networks they're gaining popularity especially with the Sassa fication of applications and of course the general trend toward cloud here's Eric Bradley again explaining what the panel members said from his perspectives winners there or in the SD web space it's gonna be impossible to ignore that going forward and some of our CIO and even CISO panelists said that change will be also we're seeing at the same time what they were calling a on on SAS and cloud now we know these trends obviously were already happening but there be they're being exacerbated they're happening even more quickly and more strong and I don't see that changing anytime soon that of course is at the expense of network sorry data centers whether it be your own or hosted which has huge ramifications on from on from Hardware even the firewall providers so and it really seems as if as networking refresh starts to come up and it's coming up with a lot of large in writes when your network refresh comes up people are going to do an RFP for SD web they are sick and tired of paying MPLS network vendors and they really want to look at something else that was even prior to this situation now what we're hearing is this is a permanent change I particularly had one person say I wanted to find this quote real quickly by then but basically they were basically saying that from a permanency perspective the freedom from MPLS will reduce our network spend by over half while more than doubling or tripling or bandwidth now the challenge of course is customers have multiple MPLS contracts with several different vendors and often they just rubber-stamp the renewal but what customers are gonna start doing is layering in SD win and letting those agreements expire ok I want to talk about secure endpoints in this notion of zero trust solutions as I've said in the cube many many times the idea of digging a moat around the castle doesn't protect your queen anymore because the Queen ie the data has left the castle so companies that can secure gateways and secure endpoints they are going to have more momentum during and post kovat now in the panel Z scalar came up a lot in this context as well as fortunate who as I've reported has done a good job in getting its cloud products to market and of course the et our data shows that fortunate and Z scalar both have strong net scores or spending momentum and fort net especially has really strong pervasiveness in the et our dataset as I've reported previously I've also analyzed that there's been evaluation divergence between Palo Alto Networks and fortunate and house II scalar as well is a disruptor in this space I want you to listen to what Eric Bradley said specifically about Z scalar in Palo Alto Networks roll the clip yes it is and I'm glad you brought up Z scalar to very recently by client request we did a very in-depth research on Z scale and versus Palo Alto charisma access and they were very interested this is before all this happened you know does Palo Alto have a chance of catching up taking share from Z scalar and I've had the pleasure myself personally hosting J the CEO of Z scalar at an event here at City and I have nothing but incredible respect for the company but what we found out through this research is Z scalar at the moment their technology is still ahead according to their and there is no doubt however there doesn't seem to be any real secret sauce that will stop palo alto from inching up so if I had to choose that in a year from now Palo Alto might have had a better chance so in this panel as you brought up Z scalar was mentioned numerous times as just the wave of the future along with Cosby brokers right whether you're talking about a net scope or a force point they're all those people that also play in The Cosby space to secure your access zero Trust is no longer a marketing hype term it is real and it is becoming more real by the week now I personally agree with Eric that palo alto is is definitely going to be in the mix customers that we've talked to they want to work with palo alto networks but there's a sea change going on and it's being driven by sass and cloud and now accelerating because a co vid of course that the trend of remote workers is we think here to stay now i want to end by talking about some specific vendor mentions in addition to the ones we've talked about already and this chart shows some of the vendors and their logos that were called out as either being really really helpful during the this pandemic or super important to the CIOs and CISOs these executives really stressed how thankful they are to these companies and that the fact that these companies have worked very closely with them they've been flexible on pricing and payments and they also specifically mentioned how off-put they were by you know this notion of ambulance-chasing for example trials that required them to make some kind of commitment or swipe a credit card they just don't have time for that right now and then of the patience for it now let me call out a few of the companies that were cited in a positive light look at microsoft is all for the ETR data set in so many sectors Microsoft teams security solutions cloud really came up a lot on on this ven IBM was mentioned as being a great partner as what's oracle many many times we talked about fortunate and Z scalar already Cisco was called out as a strategic vendor was very helpful both the networking and with Cisco teams for collaboration CrowdStrike came up a number of times from CISOs as did Trend Micro and carbon black got a mention that's the VMware acquisition insecurity of course MobileIron that makes sense as well because they're securing and managing remote worker devices now finally interesting Lee Salesforce was brought up many times as a critical vendor one exec said that before coronavirus multiple workers could share a Salesforce license by you know sharing passwords but with the spike and work from home they had to purchase more licenses now one last thing that I want to bring up is start ups I got this question the other day from a client who said how a start-ups fair you might think that in this climate especially among for hard-hit customers that there might be risk-averse as it pertains to using startups once cio however said the following paraphrasing you always hear about the guy that says we'll pick three companies in the upper right hand corner the Gartner Magic Quadrant will test them out and this C so said that one of the things that he's always done is picked two from the upper right and one from the lower left one of the emerging techs and he gives them a shot let's listen to how Eric Bradley describes this dynamic roll the clip it's a great comment and honestly if you're in charge of procurement you'd be stupid not to do that not only just to see what the technology is but now I can play you off the big guys because I have negotiating leverage and I could say oh well I could always just take their contract so it's silly not to do it from a business perspective so it's really interesting and somewhat non-intuitive these comments on startups which of course means despite all the consolidation and acquisitions that you see in the industry you know there's still gonna be a lot of fragmentations a fragmentation especially as I've said many many times in the security space people still want best to breed and innovation and if it can drive business value they're gonna they're gonna go for it ok so look I realize that these are narrow comments from for CIOs and CISOs but they give us some added texture and flavor and color to the core ETR data set and we're going to continue to report on these trends and share more details as they become available both from the ETR data set and from other vents and remember we're gonna be digging into the latest ETR survey over the over the coming weeks as ETR exits its self-imposed quiet period so you can always check out ETR dot plus I publish weekly on wiki bang calm and on Silicon angle calm and of course our YouTube library has all these videos that's youtube.com slash silicon angle by the way these segments are also available as podcasts you can DM me or tweet me at devil ante and please by all means comment on my LinkedIn posts or email me at David Galante at Silicon angle com always appreciate the feedback thanks for watching everybody this is breaking analysis brought to you by the cube powered by ETR this is Dave Volante and we'll see you next time thanks for watching [Music]

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation >> lover on Welcome to this cube conversation here in Palo Alto, California. The Cube Studio. I'm John for the co host of the Cube Weird Sylvan shop. Who's the head of solution Architecture and open systems securing Esti win of right of other cloud to point out like capabilities. Very successful. 20 plus years. Operation Civil was the one of the first folks are coming over to the US to expand their operation from Europe into New York. Now here in Silicon Valley. Welcome to the Cube conversation. Thank you. So instituting trivia. You were part of the original team of three to move to the U. S. From Switzerland. You guys had phenomenal success in Europe. You've come to the U. S. Having phenomenal success in the US Now you moving west out here to California on that team, you're opening things up at the market. >> It's been a chance, Mikey. Things can presented themselves step by step, and I jumped on the trains and it's been a good right. >> Awesome. You guys have had great success. We interviewed your CEO a variety of your top people. One of the things that's interesting story is that you guys have been around for a long time. Been there, done that, riding this next next wave of digital transformation. What we call a cloud two point. Oh, but really is about enterprise. Full cloud scale, securing it. You have a lot of organic growth with customers, great word of mouth. So that's not a lot of big marketing budgets, riel. Real success there. You guys now are in the US doing the same thing here. What's been the key to success for open systems wide such good customers? Why the success formula is it you guys are on the right wave. What is it? The product? All the above. What's the What's the secret formula? >> So multiple things I say. And we started as a privately owned company like broad banks to, um, to the Internet email into one back in the nineties. And, um, yeah, we started to grow organically, as he said were by mouth, and Indiana is we put heavy focus on operations, so we wanted to make our customers happy and successful, and, um, yeah, that's how we got there like it was slow organic growth. But we always kind of kept the core and we tried to be unconventional, tried to do things differently than others do. And that's what brought us to where we are today and now capabilities Being here in the Valley, um, opens up a lot of more doors. >> It's got a nice office and we would see I saw the video so props for that. Congratulations. But the real to me, the meat on the bone and story is, is that and I've been really ranting on this whole SD win is changing. SD Win used to be around for a long, long time. It's been known industries known market. It's got a total addressable market, but really, what has really talks to is the the cloud. The cloud is a wide area network. Why do we never used to be locked down? He had the old way permitted based security. Now everything is a wide area. That multi cloud in hybrid club. This is essentially networking. It's a networking paradigms. It's not lately rocket science technically, but the cloud 2.0 shift is about, you know, data. It's about applications, different architectures you have everything kind of coming together, which creates a security problem, an opportunity for new people to come in. That's what you guys? One of them. This is the big wave. What? It explain the new s t win with, you know, the old way and the new way. What is the what? What should people know about the new S D win marketplace? >> Yeah. So let me start. Where do Owen has come from and how digital transformation has impacted that. So typically corporate wider networks were centered around the Clear Data Center where all applications were hosted, storage and everything and all traffic was back holding to the data center. Typically, one single provider that Broady, Mpls links on dhe. It was all good. You had a central location where you could manage it. You had always ability security stack was there. So you had full control. Now new requirements from natural transformation broad as users are on the road, they're on their phones ipads on the in, restaurants in ah, hotels, Starbucks. Wherever we have applications moved to the cloud. So their access directly You wanna have or be as close as possible Unify Communications. I OT It's all things deposed. Different requirements now in the network and the traditional architecture didn't were wasn't able to respond to that. It's just that the links they were filled up. You couldn't invest enough thio blow up your Nampula slings to handle the band with You lost visibility because users were under road. You lost control, and that's where new architectures had to be found. That's where Ston step them and say, Hey, look now we're not centered around the headquarter anymore were sent around where the applications are, your scent around, where the data is, and we need to find means to connected a data as quickly as possible. And so you can use the Internet. Internet has become a commodity. It's become more performance more stable, so we can leverage that we can route traffic according to our policies. We can include the cloud, and that's where Ston actually benefits from the clown. As much as the club benefits from SD went because they go hand in hand and that's also what we really drive to say, Hey, look, now the cloud can be directly brought into your network, no matter where, where data and where applications. >> Yeah, and this is the thing. You know, Although you've been critical of S t when I still see it as the path of the future because it's networking. And the end of the day networking is networking. You moving packets from point A to point B and you're moving somebody story you moving from point A to store the point C. It's hard. And you brought this up about Mpls. It's hard to, like rip and replace You can't just do a wholesale change on the network has the networks are running businesses. So this is where the trick is, in my opinion. So I want to get your thoughts on how companies were dealing with this because, I mean, if you want to move, change something in the network, it takes a huge task. How did you guys discover this new opportunity? How did you implement it? What was the and how should customers think about not disrupting their operations at the same time bringing in the new capabilities of this SD win two point? Oh, >> yeah, that's it's a perfect sweet spot, because in the end is, um, nobody starts at a green field. If you could start with a green field. It's easy. You just take on the new technology and you're happy. But, um, customers that we look up large enterprises, they have a brownfield. They haven't existing that work. They have business critical applications running 24 7 And if you look at what options large enterprises have to implement and manage a nasty when is typically three approaches, they either do it themselves, meaning they need a major investment in on boarding people having the talent validating technology and making the project work already. Look at a conventional managers provider. In the end, that is just the same as doing yourself. It's just done by somebody else, and you have the the challenge that those providers typically, um, have a lot of portfolio that they manage. And they do not have enough expertise in Nasty Wen. And so you just end up with the same problems and a lot of service, Janey. So even then you do not get the expertise that you need. >> I think what's interesting about what you guys have done? I want to get your reaction to this is that the manage service piece of it makes it easier to get in without a lot of tinkering with existing infrastructure. Exact. And that's been one of that tail winds for you guys and success wise. Talk about that dynamic of why they managed service is a good approach because you put your toe in the water, so to speak, and you can kind of get involved, get as much as you need to go and go further. Talk about that dynamic and why that's important. >> Yeah, technology Jane is very quickly. So you need people that are able to manage that and open systems as a pure play provider. We build purposely build our platform for us, he went. So we integrated feature sets. We we know how to monitor it, how to configure it, how to manage it. Lifecycle management, technology, risk technology management. All this is purposely purposely built into it, so we strongly believe that to be successful, you need people that are experts in what they do to help you so that you and your I t people can focus in enabling the business. And that's kind of our sweet spot where we don't say we have experts. Our experts operating the network for you as a customer and therefore our experts are your experts. And that's kind of where we believe that a manage service on the right way ends up in Yeah, the best customer. >> And I think the human capital pieces interesting people can level up faster when you when you're not just deploying here. Here's the software load. It is the collaborations important. They're good. They're all right. While you're on this topic, I want to get your thoughts. Since you're an expert, we've been really evaluating this cloud 2.0, for lack of a better description. Cloud 2.0, implying that the cloud 1.0 was Amazon miss on The success of Amazon Web service is really shows Dev Ops in Action Agility The Lean startup Although all that stuff we read reading about for the past 10 plus years great compute storage at scale, amazing use of data like you, said Greenfield. Why not use the cloud? Great. Now all the talk about hybrid cloud even going back to 2013 We were of'em world at that time start 10th year their hybrid cloud was just introduced. Now it's mainstream now multi cloud is around the corner. This teases out cloud 2.0, Enterprise Cloud Enterprise Scale Enterprise Security Cloud Security monitoring 2.0, is observe ability. Got Cooper All these new things air coming on. This is the new clout to point out what is your definition of cloud two point? Oh, if you had to describe it to a customer or a friend, >> it is really ah, some of hybrid cloud or multi cloud, as you want to name it, because in the end, probably nobody can say I just select one cloud, and that's going to make me successful because in the end, cloud is it's not everywhere, as we kind of used to believe in the beginning, but in the end, it's somebody else's computer in a somebody else's data center. So the cloud is you selectively pick the location where you want to for your cloud instances and asked if Cloud Service providers opened up more locations that are closer to your users in the or data you actually can leverage more possibilities. So what we see emerging now is that while for a long time everything has moved to the cloud, the cloud is again coming back to us at the sietch. So a lot of compute stuff is done close to where data is generated. Um, it's where the users are. I mean, Data's generated with with us. Yeah, phones and touch and feel and vision and everything. So we can leverage these technologies to really compute closer to the data. But everything controlled out of central cloud instances. >> So this brings up a good point. You essentially kind of agreeing with cloud one detto being moved to the cloud. But now you mentioned something that's really interesting around cloud to point out, which is moving having cloud, certainly public clouds. Great. But now moving technology to the edge edge being a data center edge being, you know, industrial I ot other things wind farms, whatever users running around remotely you mentioned. So the edges now becomes a critical component of this cloud. Two point. Oh, okay. So I gotta ask the question, How does the networking and what's the complexity? And I'm just imagining massive complexity from this. What are some of the complexities and challenges and opportunities will arise out of this new dynamic of club two point. Oh, >> So the traditional approaches does just don't work anymore. So we need new ways to not only on the networking side, but obviously also the security side. So we need to make sure that not on Lee the network follows in the footsteps of the business of what it needs. But actually, the network can drive business innovation and that the network is ready to handle those new leaps and technologies. And that's what we see is kind of being able to tightly integrate whatever pops up, being able to quickly connect to a sass provider, quickly integrate a new cloud location into your network and have the strong security posture there. Directly integrated is what you need because if you always have to think about weight, if I add this, it's gonna break something else, and I have to. To change is here. Then you lose all the speed that your business needs. >> I mean, the ripple effect of it's like throwing a stone in the lake and seeing the ripple effect with cloud to point. You mentioned a few of them. Network and Security won't get to that in a second, but doesn't change every aspect of computing categories. Backup monitoring. I mean all the sectors that were traditional siloed on premise that moves with the cloud are now being disrupted again for the third time. Yeah, you agree with that? >> It's true. And I mean your club 0.1 point. Oh, you say a lot of things will be seen his lift and shift and that still works like there is a lot of work loads where it's not worth it to re factor everything. But then, for your core applications, the business where the business makes money, you want a leverage, the latest instead of technologies to really drive, drive your business there. >> I got to get your take on this because you're the head of architecture solutions at Open Systems. Um, is a marketing tagline that I saw that you guys promote, which I live. I want to get your thoughts on. It says, Stop treating your network like a network little marketing. I love it, but it's kind of like stop trying your network like a network implying that the networks changing may be inadequate. Antiquated needs to modernize. I'm kind of feeling the vibe there on that. What do you mean by that? Slow Stop treating your network like a network. What's what's the purpose >> behind that? But yeah, in the end, it to be a little flaw provoking. But I mean, even est even in its pure forms, where you have a softer controller that steers your traffic along different path. Already. For me, as an engineer, I'm gonna lose my mind because I want to know where routing is going. I want deterministic. Lee defined my policy, so I always have things under control. But now it's a softer agent that takes care. Furred takes care of it for me so that already I lose control in favor off. Yeah, more capabilities. And I think that's cloud just kind of accelerate. >> So you guys really put security kind of in between the network and application? Is that the way you're thinking about it? It used to be Network was at the bottom. You built the application, had security. Now you're thinking differently. Explain that the the architectural thinking around this because this is a modern approach you guys were taking, and I want to get this on the record. Applications have serving users and machines network delivers packets, and then you're saying security's wrapping up between them explain. >> So when we go back again to the traditional model Central Data Center, you had a security stack full rack of appliances that the care of your security was easy to manage. Now, if you wanna go ask you when connect every brand side to the Internet, you cannot replicate such an infrastructure to every branch. Location just doesn't skill. So what do you do? Why do you say I cannot benefit of this where I use new methods? And that's where we say we integrate security directly into our networking stack. So to be able to not rely on the service training but have everything compiled into one platform and be able to leverage that data is passing through our network. You've eyes. But then why not apply the same security functions that we used to do in our headquarter directly at the edge and therefore every branch benefits of the same security posture that I typically were traditionally only had in my data center? >> You guys so but also weighing as a strategic infrastructure critical infrastructure opponent. I would agree with that. That's obvious, but as we get into hybrid cloud and multi cloud infrastructures of service support. Seamless integration is critical. This has become a topic, will certainly be talking about for the rest of the year Of'em world and reinvented other conferences like Marcel that night as well. This is the big challenge for customers. Do I invest in Azure A. W as Google in another cloud? Who knows how many clouds coming be another cloud potentially around the corner? I don't want to fork my development team. I want to do one of the great different code bases. This has become kind of like the challenge. How do you see this playing out? Because again, the applications want to run on the best cloud possible. I'm a big believer in that. I think that the cloud should dictate the AP should dictate which cloud runs. That's why I'm a believer in the single cloud for the workload, not a single cloud for all workloads. So your thoughts, >> I think, from an application point of view. As you say, the application guys have to determine more cloud is best for them, I think from a networking point of view, as a network architect, we need to we can't work against this but enable them and be able to find ways that the network can seamlessly connect to whatever cloud the business wants to use. And there's plenty of opportunity to do that today and to integrate or partner with other providers that actually have partnered with dozens of cloud providers. And as we now can architect, we have solutions to directly bring you as a customer within milliseconds, to each cloud, premise is a huge advantage. It takes a few clicks in a portal. You have a new clouds instance up and running, and now you're connected. And the good thing is, we have different ways to do that. Either. We spin up our virtual instance virtual esti one appliance in cloud environments so we can leverage the Internet to go. They're still all secured, all encrypted, ordering me again. Use different cloud connect interconnections to access the clouds. Depending on the business requirements, >> you guys have been very successful. A lot of comfort from financial service is the U. N. With NGOs, variety of industries. So I want to get your thoughts on this. I've been we've been covering the Department of Defense is joining and Chet I joint and the presentation of defense initiative where the debate was soul single purpose Cloud. Now the reality is and we've covered this on silicon angle that D O D is going multi cloud as an organization because they're gonna have Microsoft Cloud for collaboration and other contracts. They're gonna win $8,000,000,000. So that a Friday cloud opportunities, but for the particular workload for the military, they have unique requirements. Their workload has chosen one cloud. That was the controversy. Want to get your thoughts on this? Should the workloads dictate the cloud? And is that okay? And certainly multi cloud is preferred Narada instances. But is it okay to have a single cloud for a workload? >> Yeah, again, from if the business is okay with that, that's fine from our side of you. We see a lot of lot of business that have global presence, so they're spread across the globe. So for them, it's beneficial to done distribute workloads again across different regions, and it could still be the same provider, but across different regions. And then already, question is How do you now we're out traffic between those workloads? Do we? Do you love right? Your esteem and infrastructure or do you actually use, for example, the backbone that the cloud provider provides you in case of Microsoft? They guarantee you the traffic between regions stay in their backbone. So gifts, asshole, new opportunities to leverage large providers. Backbone. >> And this is an interesting nuance point because multi cloud doesn't have to be. That's workload. Spreading the workload across three different clouds. It's this workload works on saving Amazon. This workload works on Azure. This workload works on another cloud that's multi cloud from a reality standpoint today, so that implies that most every country will be multi cloud for sure. But workloads might have a single cloud for either the routing and the transit security with the data stored. And that's okay, too. >> Yeah, yeah, and keep in mind, Cloud is not only infrastructure or platform is the service. It's also software as a service. So as soon as we have sales forests, work day office 3 65 dropbox or box, then we are multiplied. >> So basically the clouds are fighting it out by the applications that they support and the infrastructure behind. Exactly. All right, well, what's next for you? You're on the road. You guys doing a lot of customer activity. What's the coolest thing that you're seeing in the customer base from open system standpoint that you like to share with the audience? >> Um, so again, it's just cool to see that customers realized that there's plenty of opportunities. And just to see how we go through that evolution with our customers, were they initially or little concerned? But then eventually we see that actually, the network change drives new business project and customers air happy that they launched or collaborate with us. That's what that's what makes me happy and makes me and a continuing down that path >> and securing it is a key. Yeah, he wins in this market Having security? >> Absolutely. Yeah, Sylvia saying mind and not wake up at 2 a.m. Full sweat, because here >> we'll manage. Service is a preferred for my people like to consume and procure product in So congratulations and congressional on your Silicon Valley office looking for chatting more. I'm John for here in the keep studios for cute conversation. Thanks for watching

(upbeat funky music) >> From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California. This is a CUBE conversation. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, we're here at theCUBE studios in Palo Alto for a special CUBE conversation. Talking security, talking about the internet and cloud computing. Martin Bosshardt is the CEO of Open Systems. Martin, great to see you. Last time we chatted was in December you were in Vegas, we had a little on the ground, great to meet your team. Welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you so much. It's great to be here. >> So exciting things going on, I want to get a state of the Open Systems and the industry, obviously security's a really big big thing, a lot stuff going on in the industry. Black Hat. Defcon. Amazon had a big event called re:Inforce, which was really kind of the first cloud securities show. Which brings the whole, your kind of value proposition to the table but, you guys have a new office here in Silicon Valley. I saw a video on the internet, trending. >> Yeah. >> Pretty nice place work. Give us the update on the current office and Silicon Valley presence. >> Yeah we are, you know, we are really happy to be now here in the U.S. headquarters in Redwood City and Silicon Valley. So, this really helps us also to be closer to the talents, to be closer to all the going to market activities and also to understand the market better. So, it's really exciting to be here and obviously also our, I mean the people love to work here in Silicon Valley. Weather is always great. >> Yeah, weathers always great and the office has got that good working vibe there. Take a minute to explain Open Systems real quick for the folks not familiar with the video 'cause we did last December in Vegas with your team. Tell them what your companies value propositions is and some of the growth you're experiencing. >> Right, so, Open Systems really is, you know, we operate SD-WAN in a secure way for our customer, so it's really focusing on making a relatively complicated technology, from operational point of view, very easy to consume for our customers. So this is, I think, something we started more than 15 years ago in Europe and I would say Open Systems is very much comparable, or at least the going to market part, is very much comparable to an organic farms. We have a wonderful ecosystems in Switzerland, especially in the financial services industry and our customers just love the way we provided those services and told their neighbors and friends and this is really how we grew on a global scale. Currently Open Systems is operating in more than 180 countries, SD-WAN and security infrastructure for customers and protect approximately 2.5 to three million in users globally. And when we started to enter the U.S. market, we learned that the way we provide SD-WAN in a secure way, really resonates a lot with the U.S. market because we can make complex infrastructures, especially projects going to the cloud, very easy to consume for our customers. So, we are really exciting on the growth side right now, we grow super fast in the U.S., we have been very successful in latest customers, we won Chemers, we won Chemit... >> So you're winning a lot of business. >> We are winning a lot of business and what's exciting about it is those customers give us really very valuable feedback on the difference how we provided services is really exciting... >> You know Martin, I was observing and talking to your team in December when we first met you guys for the first time and you just briefly touched on it on your description of the company success. A lot of the early success and continued success has been word of mouth. >> Right. >> With the organic, not like big marketing splash in the pool, kind of like, you know, banging the drum hard, although you are doing some marketing now but and being in the U.S. That word of mouth has been really a testament to the quality of the product, so I got to ask you, what are they happy about? What's the problem that you're solving? What's the big buzz? Why are they so excited to share, to their peers and colleagues about Open Systems? What's the big revelation? >> Thank you for the credit. I think, you know, everybody goes to the cloud and what you really need is an SD-WAN to access the cloud. What that also means for all those companies, they have to rethink their security posture. So if you add now all those products and then you try to operate those products, it turns out it's relatively complicated compared to an old school MPLS Network we used to operate in the past. So, this is really where Open Systems comes in and helps customers to operate that in very easy ways. So we integrate, all those products needed, to operate the global SD-WAN in a secure way, on a single delivery platform and that allows customers to consume that entire suite in a very very easy way. >> I want to get your vision on the future of Open Systems. I know you guys call it secure SD-WAN. I'm a little bit more radical and controversial in the sense. I think SD-WAN is kind of passe term, I think, it's really cloud connectivity work anywhere, people are working at home more than ever, cloud computing has brought in essentially enterprise cloud. We're calling it cloud 2.0, where, it's not just public cloud and having workloads in there, taking advantage of the greatest of cloud 1.0. It's enterprises, this is hybrid, it's multi-cloud, you seeing a, really a distributed computing, a networking problem and a security problem being at the center of this new work environment. >> Yeah. >> Essentially, people connected to something. >> Right. >> It's cloud right, I mean. We can call it SD-WAN because it used to be an office, campus, remote office, very static dynamic. What's your vision? >> You're absolutely right. I mean, this is really where it all goes. Let's say, a network was a network and it was very clear what a network does, right now it's more like, we want to just connect users to cloud services and it's not so clear where those services are coming from and it's not so clear where those users are sitting, where you consume from. And, it results in a phenomenal opportunity to be much more agile, much more, much faster, also to set-up new services, but it also is a challenge for IT operations. Because you know, you might have a group of users saying, well this and this service doesn't work well and now you have to debug. Why is not performing, why isn't Germany maybe, a service coming from the U.S., not performing well? Or you have an IoT device suddenly not really collecting data in a right way and this is really where SD-WAN becomes an orchestration layer. SD-WAN really helps you to orchestrate all those services and make sure you have the SLA available, at all times, everywhere. And also, understand if it's not delivering right and this is really rare where I believe... Ya, we need new solutions to make these easy because... >> You know, a lot of companies talk about digital transformation, that becomes the office, you know, the top CEO, board conversation, let's transform and be digital. But the underlying infrastructure, which is very complex, you can talk about distributing computing, you got networking, all these things in place and old, new, all kind of mashed together with cloud. It's easy to say digital transformation but you're talking about digital transformation of the business on top of existing complex hardware, which comes out the networking, moving packets from A to B, storing it on drives and now you have people working at home, so you have people working globally. >> Right. >> It's not that simple. >> No. >> It's complicated. >> It is really... >> It's not just a U.S. problem, it's like a have a team in, an engineering team in the U.K. and Germany, wherever, business... So it's a global problem. >> Exactly and also it's about, you know, how do you process all the data in an efficient way. And where we see a lot of iteration power released is right now in the Cloud. It's really exciting how easy it gets to consume all that computing power out of the cloud but you need to make sure it is available and you need to understand what is happening if it's not available and how to fix that. And this is really where, I think networking became more demanding, more challenging but also, obviously offers a tremendous opportunity for innovation. >> And I think the security industry has gotten much broader scope to it, used to be, hey you know, I'm a nerd, I'm Black Hat, I'm a blue team, red team, secure the environment, get a perimeter and okay that's gone, we'll take care of threats, malware, all this stuff's going on. But when you think about like cloud 2.0, cloud 1.0 is compute storage, great applications can load up at the cloud, all this great stuffs happening, hooray, yeah, rah-rah. Now cloud 2.0 is networking and security. >> Right. >> Independent of everything right so, what's your take on that? How is Open Systems, you know, helping companies? And what do you say to your customers when you say, hey, you know, compute networking, the storage is good, the cloud on premise no problem, there's operating models for that but you got networking and you got security to deal with on top of all the complexity. What's your story? >> I think the most important thing is, you know, we have to live with the fact that some device system tools are not secure. So I think IoT's a very good example. If you want to have all those sensors out there and be close to the customer, be close to some business processes, you need IoT. But, it's just not possible to have these very cheap devices built in a secure way. So, it's a lot about how do you design a network, to design it in a resilient secure way and that means that you have to think in cells, you have to think in compartments and that makes it relatively easy, secure again, but, it is from operational point of view, quite a challenge because you do not operate any more one network, you suddenly operate maybe any networks. >> On that point, just to kind of wrap up here. The the security challenges around IoT, Machine Learning and AI, which is clearly becoming part of the fabric of, a company's going to leverage that... >> Right. What are some of the big challenges that companies are having and what do you do to solve it? >> You know, in the old network world, you had a network where everything was connected based on one network. So, when you introduce SD-WAN and you introduce all these capabilities, it is very dangerous if you think just, in the old school of one network because suddenly you have IoT working on the same network as maybe your finance department. Or you have productivity facilities working the same network as your network department. So, it just doesn't make sense to have those very different functionalities on exactly the same network because if you have a compromised situation, you suddenly have your entire company compromised and this is really where compartments become very very important. I think this also something you in every industry, historically as well. Security and safety starts also with compartments. So, if you think fire, fire security, it has a lot to do with fire compartments. In case you have a fire, you don't lose the entire building or the same goes with ship building. I mean, Titanic was the last very big ship that sunk but the reason was the compartments haven't been pressurized. A modern ship doesn't sink anymore. And I think this really what we have to do now also in IT. We have to think in compartments. We have to think in layers and that's easy to do with SD-WAN but it's not so easy to operate. >> Final question for you real quick, you know, people talk about hybrid cloud, multi-clouds, the big conversation in this cloud 2.0. But you guys as being successful in outside the United States and now in the U.S., there's also multi-geo work environment. >> Right. What should people think about when they kind of want to frame that debate or conversation? I'm a multinational, I'm operating in the U.S., now I have regions, clouds have regions. There's also all kind of of now regulatory pressure coming across those areas. >> I would say around 2,000 companies really started to globalize their value chains. You know, in the past, maybe you had a production facility in one country and then you sold your products globally but if you want to be competitive, you have to globalize your value chain. So it doesn't make sense to produce everything in one place. Your product usually, or your service, is produced on a global scale and that means that networks also have to help you to really produce that global value chain. But, it means also that you are operating in different jurisdictions, in different regions and you have to respect those different regulations and laws. And this is, obviously then and also a challenge for network operators because privacy in Germany is different than in the U.S., access rights are different, China's again very different, but all those multinationals, we operate in all those countries and we have to respect the local law. >> And the provide the security they need. >> Exactly. >> Martin, thanks for coming in and sharing your insights. Appreciate, good to see you, we'll follow up with and keep of the progress. Thanks for coming in. >> Thank so much. >> I'm John Furrier for CUBE Conversation in Palo Alto, at theCUBE Studios, thanks for watching. (upbeat funky music)

>> From Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Open Systems. The future is crystal clear with security in SD-WAN. Brought to you by Open Systems. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas everybody, my name is Dave Valanti and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. We are covering the Open Systems networking event. They're here as part of the two Gartner events here this week. On the heels of AWS Reinvent, a lot of action going on in Las Vegas. Steve Garson is here, he's the president and founder of SD-WAN experts consultancy in this space. Steve, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Glad to be here. >> So tell us a little bit more about your background. >> Okay. I've been in the networking space since about 2007. Initially, my company was called MPLS Experts, when companies were migrating to MPLS and not understanding, well, what carriers should I use. I helped companies re-engineer their WAN back then. As that developed, the WAN optimization came into the scene and I helped companies evaluate the right WAN optimization solution. Then I had the foresight to see the potential of SD-WAN. I pivoted the business, called it SD-WAN Experts and started writing for network world and blogging on my own sites and with a number of other websites. I've been helping enterprises worldwide re-engineer their network, make a WAN transformation that's secure and supports easy management and save a lot of money. >> So, awesome. So you have a practitioners background, right? >> Exactly. >> That's fair to say. So you know your stuff, let's get into it. So let's talk trends, I mean. At a high level we always talk at theCUBE about the cloud and how that's affecting network traffic. Going from North South to East West has a major impact on security and performance. What are the big trends in the market space that you see, that are relevant? >> Well, we see consolidation obviously. (coughs) Obviously moving to the cloud is a big driver. The WAN has been designed for a data center with an MPLS network. That's a hub and spoke architecture that really doesn't make sense anymore. Companies are moving to Office 365, they're using Salesforce.com, they're using all kinds of softwares and service. That just doesn't work with a data center. So what companies have traditionally done is they have regional secure gateways and they're sending the traffic from an office to a secure gateway and now they're going through the internet. It just is convoluted, the traffic is tromboned and the latency is higher than it has to be. They're spending more money for these expensive circuits that, ultimately, they're going to the internet anyways. >> So, there's a lot of technical debt out there. How does a company go from point A to point B without spending a zillion dollars or bringing in, you know, a huge SI to re-architect everything. Is there a path that you can advise customers, or is it just every situation is a snowflake? >> You could probably define a half-dozen different basic situations that are snowflakes. Essentially you're moving to, you know, if you have an MPLS network companies typically will need more bandwidth and instead of getting more MPLS bandwidth they'll add internet connectivity. Using SD-WAN they'll root traffic over the internet that's supposed to go to the internet. The things that are still required on their MPLS network will stay in play. When those MPLS contracts expire, then there's a question of, do I need MPLS? That's a complicated question to answer. I will not say that you can eliminate MPLS, I'll always say it depends. It depends on the latency between paths on your network. I presented a paper at O-NUG a few weeks ago in New York, in which I analyzed with a lot of empirical data. Latency, packet-loss, and standard deviation of that latency between paths like from Tokyo to New York. You might a have 200 millisecond latency. But your standard deviation over the internet might be 200 milliseconds. So that means, potentially, if you're using only the internet, you might have 400 milliseconds latency. Can your application work appropriately? >> If you need 200 guaranteed, you've got a problem. Right? >> Right, exactly. In a situation like that, you might want to use MPLS or there's a new category of connectivity called SDCore which is an MPLS network in the Cloud that you access through an IPSec VPN to pops that are typically within 20 milliseconds. So you get that stability, but you cut the cost dramatically. >> Now the Edge just confuses us even further, right? IOT, The Edge, I mean certainly a trend everybody's talking about. From your standpoint, how real is it? Is it here today? Is it coming? What is the effect going to be on all these trends? >> You mean, the Edge? >> Yeah, the Edge, IOT. >> I mean it's a complicated thing. I mean the Edge. >> The industrial internet. >> Yeah, I mean, when people talk about the Edge today the Edge used to be their router and SD-WAN devices are supplanting the router. Gartner has indicated that by 2023 nobody is going to be buying routers. Everybody is going to be using an SD-WAN device which will route. >> Amazon, we were at Reinvent last week, they might even look at the data center as the Edge. But, I digress. Let's talk about the horses on the track. Lay out the competitive environment right now. We're here at the Open Systems event. Where do they fit in the market landscape? >> Open Systems is a very unique company where people will say, who's Open Systems competitor. They really don't have a competitor because they're unique. Open Systems is a company that has a secure SD-WAN which means there's a full security stack with SD-WAN. So you have the benefits of SD-WAN, but instead of having to deal with all these different security applications like HASBY, Data-loss Prevention, and IPSIDS, authentication, VPN integration with active directory. They do all of that and it's all managed. It's a very unique offering. >> So the competition is Do-It-Yourself, right? >> The competition is Do-It-Yourself or use a managed service provider who probably doesn't have all the pieces that work together. Open Systems has been doing this for 25 years. They have developed what the customers want. I went to one of their global customer meetings. They called a cap meeting last year. Each year they get input from the customers as far as what kind of enhancements they want to see. They actually take that input and the following year the customers, I was amazed, the customers just are thrilled that the company listens and the company implements what they ask. >> Again, I've mentioned there's a couple of Gartner shows going on this week. Sounds like Open Systems wouldn't really fit cleanly into a magic quadrant. >> They don't. They don't because they're not an Edge device. They're a complete Edge security solution that's managed. >> We talked about this at theCUBE, John Ferrs has brought up several times that the magic quadrants will have to evolve as these managed services, the Cloud certainly affects that. As more and more things get co-opted by the services, you know, economy. But, your thoughts on magic quadrants, how customers are using them. My understanding is, today, you heard a talk from a Gartner analyst that was helping people understand the do's and don'ts of a magic quadrant. Your thoughts? >> Yeah, well what Gartner was talking about today is how many people use the magic quadrant inappropriately. They think this tells us which companies we should look at and really what it's telling you is how that customer's strategy fits in with the market place. But you really have to look at what your requirements are. You can't just say, okay I'm going to look at quote the top three SD-WAN vendors. What are your requirements? That's what my firm does as a consultant is we help companies figure out what their requirements are to find out what's the right solution. A story I love to tell is a company that spent a year evaluating SD-WANs. They were about to make a decision and the CIO basically told the committee after a year of evaluations hey before we sign a contract, let's get an independent sanity check that we've made the right decision. I met with the company, spent a couple weeks assessing their requirements, and I know all of the major technologies and I knew that what they had selected wasn't correct. But you can't tell a client that they've made a mistake. So we set up a meeting with the vendor, which was a carrier, and their technology provider and the committee and I asked the hard questions that the vendor couldn't answer. Which made it really clear to the client that this is the wrong solution. They went a completely different direction. >> Saved them a lot of money. I love those stories. What's your website? >> SD-WAN-experts.com >> Alright, Steve thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Sharing your knowledge. >> Thank you. >> Awesome stuff. Really appreciate it. >> Pleasure. >> Keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back from Las Vegas Cosmo hotel. Open Systems networking event. You're watching theCUBE. (techno music)

>> Robert: It feels like we're talking because it's boring TV. Tech people love tech. Consumers love the benefit of tech. No consumer opens up their iphone and says oh my gosh, I love the technology behind my iphone. >> What's it been like, being on the Shark Tank? >> You know filming is fun and hanging out is fun and it's fun to be a celebrity at first. Your head gets really big and you get really good tables at restaurants. >> Who says tech isn't got a little pizazz. >> Voiceover: More skin in the game. In charge of his destiny, Robert Herjavec is Cube Alumni. Live from Santa Clara, California, it's the Cube covering Open Networking Summit 2017. Brought to you by the Linux foundation. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Rick here with the Cube. We're at the open networking summit 2017 in Santa Clara, California. I think it's the fourth year of the conference. We've been coming for a long time. It's pretty amazing, a lot of transformation is happening as this project moves from the conversational to the testing to actual. A lot of deployments being talked about in the keynotes. So happy to have Scott Raynovich joining me again. >> Pleasure as always, thank you. >> Did you have a good night last night? >> Excellent. >> Alright, super. Super guest Drew Schulke, he is the vice president of converged networking at Dell EMC. Drew, Welcome. >> Thanks, thanks for having us. >> You've been busy at this show. You're doing panels, you're doing keynotes, they're working you. >> It's been a bit of a whirlwind going on thus far. Yeah, I had a keynote talk on economic and organizational impacts of open networking, which went really, really well. A lot of great questions from the audience, really insightful questions on that. Have met with folks like yourself, some other folks in the media, some analysts, talking to some customers which is always nice to have. We'll close it out tomorrow with one of the keynotes. A panel discussion on the role of open source and moving to 5G where I'll be participating with some folks from Intel and Ericsson. I'm looking forward to that, but yeah, definitely a whirlwind week. >> So before we get into some of the specifics, just your general impressions as to how this thing has evolved over time. Impressions of this show this year. >> Yeah, great question. I think the thing that struck me the most this year was the amount of customers coming in and actually talking about putting a lot of the things we've been talking about at this summit for several years into production environments and seeing results out of it. Some great keynotes last night by some folks, Amadeus in the travel industry and talking about their journey actually moving things into production, I thought was fabulous. Which gives people a vision of what really is possible and moving these out of the theoretical and here's the vision, the strategy into here's how you can actually get things done and getting into results. Ultimately, when you put things into production, that's how you ultimately learn and refine things over time. It's a great move forward for us. >> Awesome, so on the economics and organizational impact of open networking, your keynote. What are some of those really key economic drivers that you outlined in that conversation? >> Yeah, great question. You can kind of break it into a capex and an opex discussion. On the capex side, what we've seen is this whole open networking model is built on merchant silicon and the commoditization of hardware, which may sound like okay, that's a bad thing. Well no, it's really, really good because what it's doing is it's allowing all of us to take the benefits of huge volume and scale that's going on. From the biggest cloud providers down to the enterprise, as we move into this hardware model that's based upon merchant silicon and more standard network designs that are capable of supporting multiple OS's, we all benefit from the economies of scale that go in that. We can amortize R&D investments over a larger number of things. That's all goodness, so there's a huge tailwind on the capex side. On the opex side, as we start to disaggregate the network stack and focus on the individual layers, it creates a different operational model that allows for a high degree of automation. One of the things that we brought up in the session was contrasting a study from 2013 where the typical enterprise network admin was controlling about 300 ports. That was the breadth of support that they had back in 2013. That same year, Facebook came out and said an individual operator can support up to 20,000 servers. It's not like they're just super humans. What happened in there was a level of automation. That's a key ingredient of our open networking strategy, is driving that automation. That's where you get true economies of scale on the opex side. Those are the main points on that one. >> Jeff: Yeah, good ones. >> So Drew, one of the themes we've seen here is that the Linux foundation has done a good job of consolidating some of the open source technology and putting them in the same place so we can all track them and figure out what's going to happen. You just told us about Dell donating some of your code to the Linux foundation. >> Drew: Correct. >> Why don't you explain how you made that decision and what you think it's going to do for your customers. >> Yeah absolutely, as a little bit of context, what we see happening in terms of networking software is one, it's become decoupled from the hardware. That's already done right now. But even when we start to look at the software side, we think there's more disaggregation possible. We can peel apart the layers of what currently is a network operating system today and create a based operating system upon which several different companies can come in and put in what at that point becomes applications on top of it to do things like an L2, L3 stack, or to do MLAG, or tapping, or anything like that. It creates an ecosystem similar to what we had with servers 20 years ago, where I've got an operating system that basically keeps the box running. Then I've got applications which are really the magic on top of it. That's sort of the context. What we donated was that base OS. We've worked on something called OS 10. We have an open edition of it which you can go out to the web and download for free today and start playing around with it. It's an unmodified Linux kernel currently based on the Debian distribution which we believe will serve as a solid foundation for that evolving network and ecosystem going forward. Linux foundation agreed with that and accepted our donation of that to be the foundation of the open switch project, which was talked a little bit about at this particular summit as well. We couldn't be happier to be working with the Linux foundation on the open switch project. Look forward to getting even more of the ecosystem working on that with someone like the Linux foundation behind it to build a very, very capable stack which ultimately benefits all of our customers at the end. >> Where will we see this code go into? What types of products and what markets? Is it NFE for telecom? Is it cloud servers? Where are we going to see this stuff? >> The wonderful thing about it is the answer is all of the above. That's the flexibility of it. Think of it as this way, which is maybe you have a telecom network that's focused on something like MPLS. A company that has a lot of good IP around MPLS can then write an application that can run on that base operating system giving the customer the ability to pick that specific application without having to worry about dragging on an operating system and hardware that may not be what they want. That's the telecom use case. Maybe it's a big cloud provider that has some very specific needs around an L2, L3 stack. Maybe they even have their own IP around that that they want to build on top of this OS. We've really opened up the degrees of freedom in that space across all of those industries. I certainly think where we see the early adopters and starting from that OS 10 base solution today, will be more in the telco service provider and in the cloud space, just because of the level of scale and what it is that they can benefit out of this level of flexibility. >> Excellent. >> There had to be some detractors before you open sourced this. I'm just curious, the conversation in the room about should we or should we not open source this project and take it out to the Linux foundation? What was ultimately the decision that pushed it out the door? >> Yeah, we had been working with some other open source based projects for a couple of years already, so there was a comfort level internally. But what we saw, I think going on in the networking space, was heavily influenced by what we saw going on in the server space 20 years ago when client server hit the scene. That stack became massively disaggregated. The folks who tried to keep these things stitched together into monolithic silos ultimately weren't successful. Either had to change their strategy, or drifted off into the sunset. We certainly was influenced by that history and looking forward at what we saw happening in this space. I'd say as well looking at a lot of the innovation coming out from open source projects and start ups in this space as well, doing some new and exciting things in networking. There was a big keynote yesterday and the panel discussion where a venture capitalist starting talking about, hey networking's cool again. I couldn't agree more where we're seeing startups come in and do really interesting things really, really well. What we're trying to do is create a model where those startups don't have to develop their own operating system and develop their own hardware and then all the management tools that go on top of it. Let them focus at what they're good at, which is a certain piece of IP. Let us work through things like the open networking foundation to drive disaggregation of the stack, making them successful. >> It's an interesting way too to build your community almost indirectly if you will. It's not like you have to sign a bunch of partner agreements and you can't keep track of all these startups and all your alliance people running around. But by putting it into the open source, especially with the Linux foundation just automatically, you're exposed to all these different types of new companies and innovations and that exposure goes both ways. >> Drew: Absolutely. >> It's a really cool trend, where we're seeing these big companies donate parts of these things into this formal situation that is the Linux foundation so it has a home and a place to live and grow. >> Absolutely. >> I want to shift gears a little bit. Today's keynote is about 5G. A lot of talk about 5G, mobile world congress is all about 5G but some people saying wait, it's not here yet, it's far out. But clearly, I think the message this morning from Sandra and also on the Cube yesterday is it's coming, but you don't just turn it on one day. You got to put all the pieces in place. What's Dell EMC's perspective on 5G? Where are you guys on this journey? >> For us in terms of where we play at an infrastructure level in the data center, for us, the key step right now is to get to this model where we can decouple function from location. Which is what the telecoms and the mobile networks have been trying to do through things like NFV. What we've been trying to do is help them on that journey long before we even get to the point where 5G is knocking at the door. Working with them today to put in the right infrastructure capable of supporting highly virtualized workloads and also capable of supporting a variety of different software defined networking solutions. If you get those components right, you're setting yourself up with a really good foundation for 5G. If 5G gets here and you haven't decoupled function and location yet in terms of your infrastructure or strategy that's going to be a tough one. What we're trying to do is shepherd that along and move that as fast as we can right now. >> We got Dell EMC World coming up pretty soon right? >> That's right, I hope to see you guys there. >> Previews of this? What can we expect to see? >> It will be interesting. This is the first time that as a combined company we're doing this event in Vegas. We had a preview in October as a newly closed transaction. This will have the full force effect of the combined Dell EMC firm coming together to put on a great show. Looking forward to it. Huge venue, I know you guys play a prominent role there. I'm hoping to see you guys there as well. Yes, there will be lots of announcements. I'm not going to go get myself in trouble by saying what any of those are four weeks in advance of when that's going to happen. >> No hints or anything. >> No hints, but certainly on the networking side, you'll hear a couple of announcements from us in terms of new products that we'll be talking about and stay tuned. >> I'll ask you the softer way to get to the same answer, but I know you're not going to give me the answer, but looking forward, 2017 what are some of your priorities top of mind that you guys are working on where if we see you a year from now, you'll report back that here's what we did in 2017? >> Clearly, this OS 10 strategy that we have, building upon this base is going to be key for that. Continuing to support the donations that we've made through the Linux foundation and Open Switch. Bringing in additional partners to develop on top of that to get their IP ready to be able to take advantage of that will be a key focus for us. But as well, there's some key networking speed transitions coming up that you got to keep pace with from a road map perspective, so you'll probably hear some things about that. Then as well just thinking from a Dell EMC perspective, as we look at how our portfolio as a company is evolving, a big shift toward software defined storage models, converged infrastructure, hyperconverged infrastructure. On the networking side, we're clearly trying to do everything we can to position ourselves to be a value add in any of those solutions today. That'll be the hint of the areas you can expect to hear about in May. >> That's good, that's a good little hint. It's a month to the Dell EMC World again the first combined Dell EMC World >> Drew: In Vegas. >> Well, last year we had EMC World in Vegas and Dell EMC World, it got very confusing. Now there's just one. We're like is it the Vegas one or the Austin one? So now there's just one, it's easier to keep track. >> Drew: One forum to rule them all. >> We look forward to Michael coming on, we had him on at both as well as VM World and it's always great to get his take as well. So Drew, thanks for stopping by and we look forward to seeing you in about a month in Vegas. >> Likewise, thanks guys, great time. >> Drew Schulke, Scott Reynovitch, Jeff Rick. You're watching the Cube from Open Networking Summit 2017. Thanks for watching. We'll be back after this short break. (bright music)