(gentle music) >> Okay, welcome back to Supercloud 2, live here in Palo Alto, California for our live stage performance. Supercloud 2 is our second Supercloud event. We're going to get these out as fast as we can every couple months. It's our second one, you'll see two and three this year. I'm John Furrier, my co-host, Dave Vellante. A panel here to break down the Supercloud momentum, the wave, and the developer impact that we bringing back Vittorio Viarengo, who's a VP for Cross-Cloud Services at VMware. Sarbjeet Johal, industry influencer and Analyst at StackPayne, his company, Cube alumni and Influencer. Sarbjeet, great to see you. Vittorio, thanks for coming back. >> Nice to be here. >> My pleasure. >> Vittorio, you just gave a keynote where we unpacked the cross-cloud services, what VMware is doing, how you guys see it, not just from VMware's perspective, but VMware looking out broadly at the industry and developers came up and you were like, "Developers, developer, developers", kind of a goof on the Steve Ballmer famous meme that everyone's seen. This is a huge star, sorry, I mean a big piece of it. The developers are the canary in the coal mines. They're the ones who are being asked to code the digital transformation, which is fully business transformation and with the market the way it is right now in terms of the accelerated technology, every enterprise grade business model's changing. The technology is evolving, the builders are kind of, they want go faster. I'm saying they're stuck in a way, but that's my opinion, but there's a lot of growth. >> Yeah. >> The impact, they got to get released up and let it go. Those developers need to accelerate faster. It's been a big part of productivity, and the conversations we've had. So developer impact is huge in Supercloud. What's your, what do you guys think about this? We'll start with you, Sarbjeet. >> Yeah, actually, developers are the masons of the digital empires I call 'em, right? They lay every brick and build all these big empires. On the left side of the SDLC, or the, you know, when you look at the system operations, developer is number one cost from economic side of things, and from technology side of things, they are tech hungry people. They are developers for that reason because developer nights are long, hours are long, they forget about when to eat, you know, like, I've been a developer, I still code. So you want to keep them happy, you want to hug your developers. We always say that, right? Vittorio said that right earlier. The key is to, in this context, in the Supercloud context, is that developers don't mind mucking around with platforms or APIs or new languages, but they hate the infrastructure part. That's a fact. They don't want to muck around with servers. It's friction for them, it is like they don't want to muck around even with the VMs. So they want the programmability to the nth degree. They want to automate everything, so that's how they think and cloud is the programmable infrastructure, industrialization of infrastructure in many ways. So they are happy with where we are going, and we need more abstraction layers for some developers. By the way, I have this sort of thinking frame for last year or so, not all developers are same, right? So if you are a developer at an ISV, you behave differently. If you are a developer at a typical enterprise, you behave differently or you are forced to behave differently because you're not writing software.- >> Well, developers, developers have changed, I mean, Vittorio, you and I were talking earlier on the keynote, and this is kind of the key point is what is a developer these days? If everything is software enabled, I mean, even hardware interviews we do with Nvidia, and Amazon and other people building silicon, they all say the same thing, "It's software on a chip." So you're seeing the role of software up and down the stack and the role of the stack is changing. The old days of full stack developer, what does that even mean? I mean, the cloud is a half a stack kind of right there. So, you know, developers are certainly more agile, but cloud native, I mean VMware is epitome of operations, IT operations, and the Tan Zoo initiative, you guys started, you went after the developers to look at them, and ask them questions, "What do you need?", "How do you transform the Ops from virtualization?" Again, back to your point, so this hardware abstraction, what is software, what is cloud native? It's kind of messy equation these days. How do you guys grokel with that? >> I would argue that developers don't want the Supercloud. I dropped that up there, so, >> Dave: Why not? >> Because developers, they, once they get comfortable in AWS or Google, because they're doing some AI stuff, which is, you know, very trendy right now, or they are in IBM, any of the IPA scaler, professional developers, system developers, they love that stuff, right? Yeah, they don't, the infrastructure gets in the way, but they're just, the problem is, and I think the Supercloud should be driven by the operators because as we discussed, the operators have been left behind because they're busy with day-to-day jobs, and in most cases IT is centralized, developers are in the business units. >> John: Yeah. >> Right? So they get the mandate from the top, say, "Our bank, they're competing against". They gave teenagers or like young people the ability to do all these new things online, and Venmo and all this integration, where are we? "Oh yeah, we can do it", and then build it, and then deploy it, "Okay, we caught up." but now the operators are back in the private cloud trying to keep the backend system running and so I think the Supercloud is needed for the primarily, initially, for the operators to get in front of the developers, fit in the workflow, but lay the foundation so it is secure.- >> So, so I love this thinking because I love the rift, because the rift points to what is the target audience for the value proposition and if you're a developer, Supercloud enables you so you shouldn't have to deal with Supercloud. >> Exactly. >> What you're saying is get the operating environment or operating system done properly, whether it's architecture, building the platform, this comes back to architecture platform conversations. What is the future platform? Is it a vendor supplied or is it customer created platform? >> Dave: So developers want best to breed, is what you just said. >> Vittorio: Yeah. >> Right and operators, they, 'cause developers don't want to deal with governance, they don't want to deal with security, >> No. >> They don't want to deal with spinning up infrastructure. That's the role of the operator, but that's where Supercloud enables, to John's point, the developer, so to your question, is it a platform where the platform vendor is responsible for the architecture, or there is it an architectural standard that spans multiple clouds that has to emerge? Based on what you just presented earlier, Vittorio, you are the determinant of the architecture. It's got to be open, but you guys determine that, whereas the nirvana is, "Oh no, it's all open, and it just kind of works." >> Yeah, so first of all, let's all level set on one thing. You cannot tell developers what to do. >> Dave: Right, great >> At least great developers, right? Cannot tell them what to do. >> Dave: So that's what, that's the way I want to sort of, >> You can tell 'em what's possible. >> There's a bottle on that >> If you tell 'em what's possible, they'll test it, they'll look at it, but if you try to jam it down their throat, >> Yeah. >> Dave: You can't tell 'em how to do it, just like your point >> Let me answer your answer the question. >> Yeah, yeah. >> So I think we need to build an architect, help them build an architecture, but it cannot be proprietary, has to be built on what works in the cloud and so what works in the cloud today is Kubernetes, is you know, number of different open source project that you need to enable and then provide, use this, but when I first got exposed to Kubernetes, I said, "Hallelujah!" We had a runtime that works the same everywhere only to realize there are 12 different distributions. So that's where we come in, right? And other vendors come in to say, "Hey, no, we can make them all look the same. So you still use Kubernetes, but we give you a place to build, to set those operation policy once so that you don't create friction for the developers because that's the last thing you want to do." >> Yeah, actually, coming back to the same point, not all developers are same, right? So if you're ISV developer, you want to go to the lowest sort of level of the infrastructure and you want to shave off the milliseconds from to get that performance, right? If you're working at AWS, you are doing that. If you're working at scale at Facebook, you're doing that. At Twitter, you're doing that, but when you go to DMV and Kansas City, you're not doing that, right? So your developers are different in nature. They are given certain parameters to work with, certain sort of constraints on the budget side. They are educated at a different level as well. Like they don't go to that end of the degree of sort of automation, if you will. So you cannot have the broad stroking of developers. We are talking about a citizen developer these days. That's a extreme low, >> You mean Low-Code. >> Yeah, Low-Code, No-code, yeah, on the extreme side. On one side, that's citizen developers. On the left side is the professional developers, when you say developers, your mind goes to the professional developers, like the hardcore developers, they love the flexibility, you know, >> John: Well app, developers too, I mean. >> App developers, yeah. >> You're right a lot of, >> Sarbjeet: Infrastructure platform developers, app developers, yes. >> But there are a lot of customers, its a spectrum, you're saying. >> Yes, it's a spectrum >> There's a lot of customers don't want deal with that muck. >> Yeah. >> You know, like you said, AWS, Twitter, the sophisticated developers do, but there's a whole suite of developers out there >> Yeah >> That just want tools that are abstracted. >> Within a company, within a company. Like how I see the Supercloud is there shouldn't be anything which blocks the developers, like their view of the world, of the future. Like if you're blocked as a developer, like something comes in front of you, you are not developer anymore, believe me, (John laughing) so you'll go somewhere else >> John: First of all, I'm, >> You'll leave the company by the way. >> Dave: Yeah, you got to quit >> Yeah, you will quit, you will go where the action is, where there's no sort of blockage there. So like if you put in front of them like a huge amount of a distraction, they don't like it, so they don't, >> Well, the idea of a developer, >> Coming back to that >> Let's get into 'cause you mentioned platform. Get year in the term platform engineering now. >> Yeah. >> Platform developer. You know, I remember back in, and I think there's still a term used today, but when I graduated my computer science degree, we were called "Software engineers," right? Do people use that term "Software engineering", or is it "Software development", or they the same, are they different? >> Well, >> I think there's a, >> So, who's engineering what? Are they engineering or are they developing? Or both? Well, I think it the, you made a great point. There is a factor of, I had the, I was blessed to work with Adam Bosworth, that is the guy that created some of the abstraction layer, like Visual Basic and Microsoft Access and he had so, he made his whole career thinking about this layer, and he always talk about the professional developers, the developers that, you know, give him a user manual, maybe just go at the APIs, he'll build anything, right, from system engine, go down there, and then through obstruction, you get the more the procedural logic type of engineers, the people that used to be able to write procedural logic and visual basic and so on and so forth. I think those developers right now are a little cut out of the picture. There's some No-code, Low-Code environment that are maybe gain some traction, I caught up with Adam Bosworth two weeks ago in New York and I asked him "What's happening to this higher level developers?" and you know what he is told me, and he is always a little bit out there, so I'm going to use his thought process here. He says, "ChapGPT", I mean, they will get to a point where this high level procedural logic will be written by, >> John: Computers. >> Computers, and so we may not need as many at the high level, but we still need the engineers down there. The point is the operation needs to get in front of them >> But, wait, wait, you seen the ChatGPT meme, I dunno if it's a Dilbert thing where it's like, "Time to tic" >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did that >> "Time to develop the code >> Five minutes, time to decode", you know, to debug the codes like five hours. So you know, the whole equation >> Well, this ChatGPT is a hot wave, everyone's been talking about it because I think it illustrates something that's NextGen, feels NextGen, and it's just getting started so it's going to get better. I mean people are throwing stones at it, but I think it's amazing. It's the equivalent of me seeing the browser for the first time, you know, like, "Wow, this is really compelling." This is game-changing, it's not just keyword chat bots. It's like this is real, this is next level, and I think the Supercloud wave that people are getting behind points to that and I think the question of Ops and Dev comes up because I think if you limit the infrastructure opportunity for a developer, I think they're going to be handicapped. I mean that's a general, my opinion, the thesis is you give more aperture to developers, more choice, more capabilities, more good things could happen, policy, and that's why you're seeing the convergence of networking people, virtualization talent, operational talent, get into the conversation because I think it's an infrastructure engineering opportunity. I think this is a seminal moment in a new stack that's emerging from an infrastructure, software virtualization, low-code, no-code layer that will be completely programmable by things like the next Chat GPT or something different, but yet still the mechanics and the plumbing will still need engineering. >> Sarbjeet: Oh yeah. >> So there's still going to be more stuff coming on. >> Yeah, we have, with the cloud, we have made the infrastructure programmable and you give the programmability to the programmer, they will be very creative with that and so we are being very creative with our infrastructure now and on top of that, we are being very creative with the silicone now, right? So we talk about that. That's part of it, by the way. So you write the code to the particle's silicone now, and on the flip side, the silicone is built for certain use cases for AI Inference and all that. >> You saw this at CES? >> Yeah, I saw at CES, the scenario is this, the Bosch, I spoke to Bosch, I spoke to John Deere, I spoke to AWS guys, >> Yeah. >> They were showcasing their technology there and I was spoke to Azure guys as well. So the Bosch is a good example. So they are building, they are right now using AWS. I have that interview on camera, I will put it some sometime later on there online. So they're using AWS on the back end now, but Bosch is the number one, number one or number two depending on what day it is of the year, supplier of the componentry to the auto industry, and they are creating a platform for our auto industry, so is Qualcomm actually by the way, with the Snapdragon. So they told me that customers, their customers, BMW, Audi, all the manufacturers, they demand the diversity of the backend. Like they don't want all, they, all of them don't want to go to AWS. So they want the choice on the backend. So whatever they cook in the middle has to work, they have to sprinkle the data for the data sovereign side because they have Chinese car makers as well, and for, you know, for other reasons, competitive reasons and like use. >> People don't go to, aw, people don't go to AWS either for political reasons or like competitive reasons or specific use cases, but for the most part, generally, I haven't met anyone who hasn't gone first choice with either, but that's me personally. >> No, but they're building. >> Point is the developer wants choice at the back end is what I'm hearing, but then finish that thought. >> Their developers want the choice, they want the choice on the back end, number one, because the customers are asking for, in this case, the customers are asking for it, right? But the customers requirements actually drive, their economics drives that decision making, right? So in the middle they have to, they're forced to cook up some solution which is vendor neutral on the backend or multicloud in nature. So >> Yeah, >> Every >> I mean I think that's nirvana. I don't think, I personally don't see that happening right now. I mean, I don't see the parody with clouds. So I think that's a challenge. I mean, >> Yeah, true. >> I mean the fact of the matter is if the development teams get fragmented, we had this chat with Kit Colbert last time, I think he's going to come on and I think he's going to talk about his keynote in a few, in an hour or so, development teams is this, the cloud is heterogenous, which is great. It's complex, which is challenging. You need skilled engineering to manage these clouds. So if you're a CIO and you go all in on AWS, it's hard. Then to then go out and say, "I want to be completely multi-vendor neutral" that's a tall order on many levels and this is the multicloud challenge, right? So, the question is, what's the strategy for me, the CIO or CISO, what do I do? I mean, to me, I would go all in on one and start getting hedges and start playing and then look at some >> Crystal clear. Crystal clear to me. >> Go ahead. >> If you're a CIO today, you have to build a platform engineering team, no question. 'Cause if we agree that we cannot tell the great developers what to do, we have to create a platform engineering team that using pieces of the Supercloud can build, and let's make this very pragmatic and give examples. First you need to be able to lay down the run time, okay? So you need a way to deploy multiple different Kubernetes environment in depending on the cloud. Okay, now we got that. The second part >> That's like table stakes. >> That are table stake, right? But now what is the advantage of having a Supercloud service to do that is that now you can put a policy in one place and it gets distributed everywhere consistently. So for example, you want to say, "If anybody in this organization across all these different buildings, all these developers don't even know, build a PCI compliant microservice, They can only talk to PCI compliant microservice." Now, I sleep tight. The developers still do that. Of course they're going to get their hands slapped if they don't encrypt some messages and say, "Oh, that should have been encrypted." So number one. The second thing I want to be able to say, "This service that this developer built over there better satisfy this SLA." So if the SLA is not satisfied, boom, I automatically spin up multiple instances to certify the SLA. Developers unencumbered, they don't even know. So this for me is like, CIO build a platform engineering team using one of the many Supercloud services that allow you to do that and lay down. >> And part of that is that the vendor behavior is such, 'cause the incentive is that they don't necessarily always work together. (John chuckling) I'll give you an example, we're going to hear today from Western Union. They're AWS shop, but they want to go to Google, they want to use some of Google's AI tools 'cause they're good and maybe they're even arguably better, but they're also a Snowflake customer and what you'll hear from them is Amazon and Snowflake are working together so that SageMaker can be integrated with Snowflake but Google said, "No, you want to use our AI tools, you got to use BigQuery." >> Yeah. >> Okay. So they say, "Ah, forget it." So if you have a platform engineering team, you can maybe solve some of that vendor friction and get competitive advantage. >> I think that the future proximity concept that I talk about is like, when you're doing one thing, you want to do another thing. Where do you go to get that thing, right? So that is very important. Like your question, John, is that your point is that AWS is ahead of the pack, which is true, right? They have the >> breadth of >> Infrastructure by a lot >> infrastructure service, right? They breadth of services, right? So, how do you, When do you bring in other cloud providers, right? So I believe that you should standardize on one cloud provider, like that's your primary, and for others, bring them in on as needed basis, in the subsection or sub portfolio of your applications or your platforms, what ever you can. >> So yeah, the Google AI example >> Yeah, I mean, >> Or the Microsoft collaboration software example. I mean there's always or the M and A. >> Yeah, but- >> You're going to get to run Windows, you can run Windows on Amazon, so. >> By the way, Supercloud doesn't mean that you cannot do that. So the perfect example is say that you're using Azure because you have a SQL server intensive workload. >> Yep >> And you're using Google for ML, great. If you are using some differentiated feature of this cloud, you'll have to go somewhere and configure this widget, but what you can abstract with the Supercloud is the lifecycle manage of the service that runs on top, right? So how does the service get deployed, right? How do you monitor performance? How do you lifecycle it? How you secure it that you can abstract and that's the value and eventually value will win. So the customers will find what is the values, obstructing in making it uniform or going deeper? >> How about identity? Like take identity for instance, you know, that's an opportunity to abstract. Whether I use Microsoft Identity or Okta, and I can abstract that. >> Yeah, and then we have APIs and standards that we can use so eventually I think where there is enough pain, the right open source will emerge to solve that problem. >> Dave: Yeah, I can use abstract things like object store, right? That's pretty simple. >> But back to the engineering question though, is that developers, developers, developers, one thing about developers psychology is if something's not right, they say, "Go get fixing. I'm not touching it until you fix it." They're very sticky about, if something's not working, they're not going to do it again, right? So you got to get it right for developers. I mean, they'll maybe tolerate something new, but is the "juice worth the squeeze" as they say, right? So you can't go to direct say, "Hey, it's, what's a work in progress? We're going to get our infrastructure together and the world's going to be great for you, but just hang tight." They're going to be like, "Get your shit together then talk to me." So I think that to me is the question. It's an Ops question, but where's that value for the developer in Supercloud where the capabilities are there, there's less friction, it's simpler, it solves the complexity problem. I don't need these high skilled labor to manage Amazon. I got services exposed. >> That's what we talked about earlier. It's like the Walmart example. They basically, they took away from the developer the need to spin up infrastructure and worry about all the governance. I mean, it's not completely there yet. So the developer could focus on what he or she wanted to do. >> But there's a big, like in our industry, there's a big sort of flaw or the contention between developers and operators. Developers want to be on the cutting edge, right? And operators want to be on the stability, you know, like we want governance. >> Yeah, totally. >> Right, so they want to control, developers are like these little bratty kids, right? And they want Legos, like they want toys, right? Some of them want toys by way. They want Legos, they want to build there and they want make a mess out of it. So you got to make sure. My number one advice in this context is that do it up your application portfolio and, or your platform portfolio if you are an ISV, right? So if you are ISV you most probably, you're building a platform these days, do it up in a way that you can say this portion of our applications and our platform will adhere to what you are saying, standardization, you know, like Kubernetes, like slam dunk, you know, it works across clouds and in your data center hybrid, you know, whole nine yards, but there is some subset on the next door systems of innovation. Everybody has, it doesn't matter if you're DMV of Kansas or you are, you know, metaverse, right? Or Meta company, right, which is Facebook, they have it, they are building something new. For that, give them some freedom to choose different things like play with non-standard things. So that is the mantra for moving forward, for any enterprise. >> Do you think developers are happy with the infrastructure now or are they wanting people to get their act together? I mean, what's your reaction, or you think. >> Developers are happy as long as they can do their stuff, which is running code. They want to write code and innovate. So to me, when Ballmer said, "Developer, develop, Developer, what he meant was, all you other people get your act together so these developers can do their thing, and to me the Supercloud is the way for IT to get there and let developer be creative and go fast. Why not, without getting in trouble. >> Okay, let's wrap up this segment with a super clip. Okay, we're going to do a sound bite that we're going to make into a short video for each of you >> All right >> On you guys summarizing why Supercloud's important, why this next wave is relevant for the practitioners, for the industry and we'll turn this into an Instagram reel, YouTube short. So we'll call it a "Super clip. >> Alright, >> Sarbjeet, you want, you want some time to think about it? You want to go first? Vittorio, you want. >> I just didn't mind. (all laughing) >> No, okay, okay. >> I'll do it again. >> Go back. No, we got a fresh one. We'll going to already got that one in the can. >> I'll go. >> Sarbjeet, you go first. >> I'll go >> What's your super clip? >> In software systems, abstraction is your friend. I always say that. Abstraction is your friend, even if you're super professional developer, abstraction is your friend. We saw from the MFC library from C++ days till today. Abstract, use abstraction. Do not try to reinvent what's already being invented. Leverage cloud, leverage the platform side of the cloud. Not just infrastructure service, but platform as a service side of the cloud as well, and Supercloud is a meta platform built on top of these infrastructure services from three or four or five cloud providers. So use that and embrace the programmability, embrace the abstraction layer. That's the key actually, and developers who are true developers or professional developers as you said, they know that. >> Awesome. Great super clip. Vittorio, another shot at the plate here for super clip. Go. >> Multicloud is awesome. There's a reason why multicloud happened, is because gave our developers the ability to innovate fast and ever before. So if you are embarking on a digital transformation journey, which I call a survival journey, if you're not innovating and transforming, you're not going to be around in business three, five years from now. You have to adopt the Supercloud so the developer can be developer and keep building great, innovating digital experiences for your customers and IT can get in front of it and not get in trouble together. >> Building those super apps with Supercloud. That was a great super clip. Vittorio, thank you for sharing. >> Thanks guys. >> Sarbjeet, thanks for coming on talking about the developer impact Supercloud 2. On our next segment, coming up right now, we're going to hear from Walmart enterprise architect, how they are building and they are continuing to innovate, to build their own Supercloud. Really informative, instructive from a practitioner doing it in real time. Be right back with Walmart here in Palo Alto. Thanks for watching. (gentle music)

(upbeat music) >> Despite its 70 to $80 billion total available market, computer storage is like a small town, everybody knows everybody else. We say in the storage world, there are a hundred people, and 99 seats. Infinidat is a company that was founded in 2011 by storage legend, Moshe Yanai. The company is known for building products with rock solid availability, simplicity, and a passion for white glove service, and client satisfaction. Company went through a leadership change recently, in early this year, appointed industry vet, Phil Bullinger, as CEO. It's making more moves, bringing on longtime storage sales exec, Richard Bradbury, to run EMEA, and APJ Go-To-Market. And just recently appointed marketing maven, Eric Hertzog to be CMO. Hertzog has worked at numerous companies, ranging from startups that were acquired, two stints at IBM, and is SVP of product marketing and management at Storage Powerhouse, EMC, among others. Hertzog has been named CMO of the year as an OnCon Icon, and top 100 influencer in big data, AI, and also hybrid cloud, along with yours truly, if I may say so. Joining me today, is the newly minted CMO of Infinidat, Mr.Eric Hertzog. Good to see you, Eric, thanks for coming on. >> Dave, thank you very much. You know, we love being on theCUBE, and I am of course sporting my Infinidat logo wear already, even though I've only been on the job for two weeks. >> Dude, no Hawaiian shirt, okay. That's a pretty buttoned up company. >> Well, next time, I'll have a Hawaiian shirt, don't worry. >> Okay, so give us the backstory, how did this all come about? you know Phil, my 99 seat joke, but, how did it come about? Tell us that story. >> So, I have known Phil since the late 90s, when he was a VP at LSA of Engineering, and he had... I was working at a company called Milax, which was acquired by IBM. And we were doing a product for HP, and he was providing the subsystem, and we were providing the fiber to fiber, and fiber to SCSI array controllers back in the day. So I met him then, we kept in touch for years. And then when I was a senior VP at EMC, he started originally as VP of engineering for the EMC Isilon team. And then he became the general manager. So, while I didn't work for him, I worked with him, A, at LSA, and then again at EMC. So I just happened to congratulate him about some award he won, and he said "Hey Herzog, "we should talk, I have a CMO opening". So literally happened over LinkedIn discussion, where I reached out to him, and congratulate him, he said "Hey, I need a CMO, let's talk". So, the whole thing took about three weeks in all honesty. And that included interviewing with other members of his exec staff. >> That's awesome, that's right, he was running the Isilon division for awhile at the EMC. >> Right. >> You guys were there, and of course, you talk about Milax, LSA, there was a period of time where, you guys were making subsystems for everybody. So, you sort of saw the whole landscape. So, you got some serious storage history and chops. So, I want to ask you what attracted you to Infinidat. I mean, obviously they're a leader in the magic quadrant. We know about InfiniBox, and the petabyte scale, and the low latency, what are the... When you look at the market, you obviously you see it, you talk to everybody. What were the trends that were driving your decision to join Infinidat? >> Well, a couple of things. First of all, as you know, and you guys have talked about it on theCUBE, most CIOs don't know anything about storage, other than they know a guy got to spend money on it. So the Infinidat message of optimizing applications, workloads, and use cases with 100% guaranteed availability, unmatched reliability, the set and forget ease of use, which obviously AIOps is driving that, and overall IT operations management was very attractive. And then on top of that, the reality is, when you do that consolidation, which Infinidat can do, because of the performance that it has, you can dramatically free up rack, stack, power, floor, and operational manpower by literally getting rid of, tons and tons of arrays. There's one customer that they have, you actually... I found out when I got here, they took out a hundred arrays from EMC Hitachi. And that company now has 20 InfiniBoxes, and InfiniBox SSAs running the exact same workloads that used to be, well over a hundred subsystems from the other players. So, that's got a performance angle, a CapEx and OPEX angle, and then even a clean energy angle because reducing Watson slots. So, lots of different advantages there. And then I think from just a pure marketing perspective, as someone has said, they're the best kept secret to the storage industry. And so you need to, if you will, amp up the message, get it out. They've expanded the portfolio with the InfiniBox SSA, the InfiniGuard product, which is really optimized, not only as the PBA for backup perspective, and it works with all the backup vendors, but also, has an incredible play on data and cyber resilience with their capability of local logical air gapping, remote logical air gapping, and creating a clean room, if you will, a vault, so that you can then recover their review for malware ransomware before you do a full recovery. So it's got the right solutions, just that most people didn't know who they were. So, between the relationship with Phil, and the real opportunity that this company could skyrocket. In fact, we have 35 job openings right now, right now. >> Wow, okay, so yeah, I think it was Duplessy called them the best kept secret, he's not the only one. And so that brings us to you, and your mission because it's true, it is the best kept secret. You're a leader in the Gartner magic quadrant, but I mean, if you're not a leader in a Gartner magic quadrant, you're kind of nobody in storage. And so, but you got chops and block storage. You talked about the consolidation story, and I've talked to many folks in Infinidat about that. Ken Steinhardt rest his soul, Dr. Rico, good business friend, about, you know... So, that play and how you handle the whole blast radius. And that's always a great discussion, and Infinidat has proven that it can operate at very very high performance, low latency, petabyte scale. So how do you get the word out? What's your mission? >> Well, so we're going to do a couple of things. We're going to be very, very tied to the channel as you know, EMC, Dell EMC, and these are articles that have been in CRN, and other channel publications is pulling back from the channel, letting go of channel managers, and there's been a lot of conflict. So, we're going to embrace the channel. We already do well over 90% of our business within general globally. So, we're doing that. In fact, I am meeting, personally, next week with five different CEOs of channel partners. Of which, only one of them is doing business with Infinidat now. So, we want to expand our channel, and leverage the channel, take advantage of these changes in the channel. We are going to be increasing our presence in the public relations area. The work we do with all the industry analysts, not just in North America, but in Europe as well, and Asia. We're going to amp up, of course, our social media effort, both of us, of course, having been named some of the best social media guys in the world the last couple of years. So, we're going to open that up. And then, obviously, increase our demand generation activities as well. So, we're going to make sure that we leverage what we do, and deliver that message to the world. Deliver it to the partner base, so the partners can take advantage, and make good margin and revenue, but delivering products that really meet the needs of the customers while saving them dramatically on CapEx and OPEX. So, the partner wins, and the end user wins. And that's the best scenario you can do when you're leveraging the channel to help you grow your business. >> So you're not only just the marketing guy, I mean, you know product, you ran product management at very senior levels. So, you could... You're like a walking spec sheet, John Farrier says you could just rattle it off. Already impressed that how much you know about Infinidat, but when you joined EMC, it was almost like, there was too many products, right? When you joined IBM, even though it had a big portfolio, it's like it didn't have enough relevant products. And you had to sort of deal with that. How do you feel about the product portfolio at Infinidat? >> Well, for us, it's right in the perfect niche. Enterprise class, AI based software defined storage technologies that happens run on a hybrid array, an all flash array, has a variant that's really tuned towards modern data protection, including data and cyber resilience. So, with those three elements of the portfolio, which by the way, all have a common architecture. So while there are three different solutions, all common architecture. So if you know how to use the InfiniBox, you can easily use an InfiniGuard. You got an InfiniGuard, you can easily use an InfiniBox SSA. So the capability of doing that, helps reduce operational manpower and hence, of course, OPEX. So the story is strong technically, the story has a strong business tie in. So part of the thing you have to do in marketing these days. Yeah, we both been around. So you could just talk about IOPS, and latency, and bandwidth. And if the people didn't... If the CIO didn't know what that meant, so what? But the world has changed on the expenditure of infrastructure. If you don't have seamless integration with hybrid cloud, virtual environments and containers, which Infinidat can do all that, then you're not relevant from a CIO perspective. And obviously with many workloads moving to the cloud, you've got to have this infrastructure that supports core edge and cloud, the virtualization layer, and of course, the container layer across a hybrid environment. And we can do that with all three of these solutions. Yet, with a common underlying software defined storage architecture. So it makes the technical story very powerful. Then you turn that into business benefit, CapEX, OPEX, the operational manpower, unmatched availability, which is obviously a big deal these days, unmatched performance, everybody wants their SAP workload or their Oracle or Mongo Cassandra to be, instantaneous from the app perspective. Excuse me. And we can do that. And that's the kind of thing that... My job is to translate that from that technical value into the business value, that can be appreciated by the CIO, by the CSO, by the VP of software development, who then says to VP of industry, that Infinidat stuff, we actually need that for our SAP workload, or wow, for our overall corporate cybersecurity strategy, the CSO says, the key element of the storage part of that overall corporate cybersecurity strategy are those Infinidat guys with their great cyber and data resilience. And that's the kind of thing that my job, and my team's job to work on to get the market to understand and appreciate that business value that the underlying technology delivers. >> So the other thing, the interesting thing about Infinidat. This was always a source of spirited discussions over the years with business friends from Infinidat was the company figured out a way, it was formed in 2011, and at the time the strategy perfectly reasonable to say, okay, let's build a better box. And the way they approached that from a cost standpoint was you were able to get the most out of spinning disk. Everybody else was moving to flash, of course, floyers work a big flash, all flash data center, etc, etc. But Infinidat with its memory cache and its architecture, and its algorithms was able to figure out how to magically get equivalent or better performance in an all flash array out of a system that had a lot of spinning disks, which is I think unique. I mean, I know it's unique, very rare anyway. And so that was kind of interesting, but at the time it made sense, to go after a big market with a better mouse trap. Now, if I were starting a company today, I might take a different approach, I might try to build, a storage cloud or something like that. Or if I had a huge install base that I was trying to protect, and maybe go into that. But so what's the strategy? You still got huge share gain potentials for on-prem is that the vector? You mentioned hybrid cloud, what's the cloud strategy? Maybe you could summarize your thoughts on that? >> Sure, so the cloud strategy, is first of all, seamless integration to hybrid cloud environments. For example, we support Outpost as an example. Second thing, you'd be surprised at the number of cloud providers that actually use us as their backend, either for their primary storage, or for their secondary storage. So, we've got some of the largest hyperscalers in the world. For example, one of the Telcos has 150 Infiniboxes, InfiniBox SSAS and InfiniGuards. 150 running one of the largest Telcos on the planet. And a huge percentage of that is their corporate cloud effort where they're going in and saying, don't use Amazon or Azure, why don't you use us the giant Telco? So we've got that angle. We've got a ton of mid-sized cloud providers all over the world that their backup is our servers, or their primary storage that they offer is built on top of Infiniboxes or InfiniBox SSA. So, the cloud strategy is one to arm the hyperscalers, both big, medium, and small with what they need to provide the right end user services with the right outside SLAs. And the second thing is to have that hybrid cloud integration capability. For example, when I talked about InfiniGuard, we can do air gapping locally to give almost instantaneous recovery, but at the same time, if there's an earthquake in California or a tornado in Kansas City, or a tsunami in Singapore, you've got to have that remote air gapping capability, which InfiniGuard can do. Which of course, is essentially that logical air gap remote is basically a cloud strategy. So, we can do all of that. That's why it has a cloud strategy play. And again we have a number of public references in the cloud, US signal and others, where they talk about why they use the InfiniBox, and our technologies to offer their storage cloud services based on our platform. >> Okay, so I got to ask you, so you've mentioned earthquakes, a lot of earthquakes in California, dangerous place to live, US headquarters is in Waltham, we're going to pry you out of the Golden State? >> Let's see, I was born at Stanford hospital where my parents met when they were going there. I've never lived anywhere, but here. And of course, remember when I was working for EMC, I flew out every week, and I sort of lived at that Milford Courtyard Marriott. So I'll be out a lot, but I will not be moving, I'm a Silicon Valley guy, just like that old book, the Silicon Valley Guy from the old days, that's me. >> Yeah, the hotels in Waltham are a little better, but... So, what's your priority? Last question. What's the priority first 100 days? Where's your focus? >> Number one priority is team assessment and integration of the team across the other teams. One of the things I noticed about Infinidat, which is a little unusual, is there sometimes are silos and having done seven other small companies and startups, in a startup or a small company, you usually don't see that silo-ness, So we have to break down those walls. And by the way, we've been incredibly successful, even with the silos, imagine if everybody realized that business is a team sport. And so, we're going to do that, and do heavy levels of integration. We've already started to do an incredible outreach program to the press and to partners. We won a couple awards recently, we're up for two more awards in Europe, the SDC Awards, and one of the channel publications is going to give us an award next week. So yeah, we're amping up that sort of thing that we can leverage and extend. Both in the short term, but also, of course, across a longer term strategy. So, those are the things we're going to do first, and yeah, we're going to be rolling into, of course, 2022. So we've got a lot of work we're doing, as I mentioned, I'm meeting, five partners, CEOs, and only one of them is doing business with us now. So we want to get those partners to kick off January with us presenting at their sales kickoff, going "We are going with Infinidat "as one of our strong storage providers". So, we're doing all that upfront work in the first 100 days, so we can kick off Q1 with a real bang. >> Love the channel story, and you're a good guy to do that. And you mentioned the silos, correct me if I'm wrong, but Infinidat does a lot of business in overseas. A lot of business in Europe, obviously the affinity to the engineering, a lot of the engineering work that's going on in Israel, but that's by its very nature, stovepipe. Most startups start in the US, big market NFL cities, and then sort of go overseas. It's almost like Infinidat sort of simultaneously grew it's overseas business, and it's US business. >> Well, and we've got customers everywhere. We've got them in South Africa, all over Europe, Middle East. We have six very large customers in India, and a number of large customers in Japan. So we have a sales team all over the world. As you mentioned, our white glove service includes not only our field systems engineers, but we have a professional services group. We've actually written custom software for several customers. In fact, I was on the forecast meeting earlier today, and one of the comments that was made for someone who's going to give us a PO. So, the sales guy was saying, part of the reason we're getting the PO is we did some professional services work last quarter, and the CIO called and said, I can't believe it. And what CIO calls up a storage company these days, but the CIO called him and said "I can't believe the work you did. We're going to buy some more stuff this quarter". So that white glove service, our technical account managers to go along with the field sales SEs and this professional service is pretty unusual in a small company to have that level of, as you mentioned yourself, white glove service, when the company is so small. And that's been a real hidden gem for this company, and will continue to be so. >> Well, Eric, congratulations on the appointment, the new role, excited to see what you do, and how you craft the story, the strategy. And we've been following Infinidat since, sort of day zero and I really wish you the best. >> Great, well, thank you very much. Always appreciate theCUBE. And trust me, Dave, next time I will have my famous Hawaiian shirt. >> Ah, I can't wait. All right, thanks to Eric, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, and we'll see you next time. (bright upbeat music)

(gentle electronic music) >> Hello, everybody, welcome back to the Virtual Vertica Big Data Conference. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in digital coverage. This is the Virtual BDC, as I said, theCUBE has covered every Big Data Conference from the inception, and we're pleased to be a part of this, even though it's challenging times. I'm here with Dan Woicke, the senior director of CernerWorks Engineering. Dan, good to see ya, how are things where you are in the middle of the country? >> Good morning, challenging times, as usual. We're trying to adapt to having the kids at home, out of school, trying to figure out how they're supposed to get on their laptop and do virtual learning. We all have to adapt to it and figure out how to get by. >> Well, it sure would've been my pleasure to meet you face to face in Boston at the Encore Casino, hopefully next year we'll be able to make that happen. But let's talk about Cerner and CernerWorks Engineering, what is that all about? >> So, CernerWorks Engineering, we used to be part of what's called IP, or Intellectual Property, which is basically the organization at Cerner that does all of our software development. But what we did was we made a decision about five years ago to organize my team with CernerWorks which is the hosting side of Cerner. So, about 80% of our clients choose to have their domains hosted within one of the two Kansas City data centers. We have one in Lee's Summit, in south Kansas City, and then we have one on our main campus that's a brand new one in downtown, north Kansas City. About 80, so we have about 27,000 environments that we manage in the Kansas City data centers. So, what my team does is we develop software in order to make it easier for us to monitor, manage, and keep those clients healthy within our data centers. >> Got it. I mean, I think of Cerner as a real advanced health tech company. It's the combination of healthcare and technology, the collision of those two. But maybe describe a little bit more about Cerner's business. >> So we have, like I said, 27,000 facilities across the world. Growing each day, thank goodness. And, our goal is to ensure that we reduce errors and we digitize the entire medical records for all of our clients. And we do that by having a consulting practice, we do that by having engineering, and then we do that with my team, which manages those particular clients. And that's how we got introduced to the Vertica side as well, when we introduced them about seven years ago. We were actually able to take a tremendous leap forward in how we manage our clients. And I'd be more than happy to talk deeper about how we do that. >> Yeah, and as we get into it, I want to understand, healthcare is all about outcomes, about patient outcomes and you work back from there. IT, for years, has obviously been a contributor but removed, and somewhat indirect from those outcomes. But, in this day and age, especially in an organization like yours, it really starts with the outcomes. I wonder if you could ratify that and talk about what that means for Cerner. >> Sorry, are you talking about medical outcomes? >> Yeah, outcomes of your business. >> So, there's two different sides to Cerner, right? There's the medical side, the clinical side, which is obviously our main practice, and then there's the side that I manage, which is more of the operational side. Both are very important, but they go hand in hand together. On the operational side, the goal is to ensure that our clinicians are on the system, and they don't know they're on the system, right? Things are progressing, doctors don't want to be on the system, trust me. My job is to ensure they're having the most seamless experience possible while they're on the EMR and have it just be one of their side jobs as opposed to taking their attention away from the patients. That make sense? >> Yeah it does, I mean, EMR and meaningful use, around the Affordable Care Act, really dramatically changed the unit. I mean, people had to demonstrate in order to get paid, and so that became sort of an unfunded mandate for folks and you really had to respond to that, didn't you? >> We did, we did that about three to four years ago. And we had to help our clients get through what's called meaningful use, there was different stages of meaningful use. And what we did, is we have the website called the Lights On Network which is free to all of our clients. Once you get onto the website the Lights On Network, you can actually show how you're measured and whether or not you're actually completing the different necessary tasks in order to get those payments for meaningful use. And it also allows you to see what your performance is on your domain, how the clinicians are doing on the system, how many hours they're spending on the system, how many orders they're executing. All of that is completely free and visible to our clients on the Lights On Network. And that's actually backed by some of the Vertica software that we've invested in. >> Yeah, so before we get into that, it sounds like your mission, really, is just great user experiences for the people that are on the network. Full stop. >> We do. So, one of the things that we invented about 10 years ago is called RTMS Timers. They're called Response Time Measurement System. And it started off as a way of us proving that clients are actually using the system, and now it's turned into more of a user outcomes. What we do is we collect 2.5 billion timers per day across all of our clients across the world. And every single one of those records goes to the Vertica platform. And then we've also developed a system on that which allows us in real time to go and see whether or not they're deviating from their normal. So we do baselines every hour of the week and then if they're deviating from those baselines, we can immediately call a service center and have them engage the client before they call in. >> So, Dan, I wonder if you could paint a picture. By the way, that's awesome. I wonder if you could paint a picture of your analytics environment. What does it look like? Maybe give us a sense of the scale. >> Okay. So, I've been describing how we operate, our remote hosted clients in the two Kansas City data centers, but all the software that we write, we also help our client hosted agents as well. Not only do we take care of what's going on at the Kansas City data center, but we do write software to ensure that all of clients are treated the same and we provide the same level of care and performance management across all those clients. So what we do is we have 90,000 agents that we have split across all these clients across the world. And every single hour, we're committing a billion rows to Vertica of operational data. So I talked a little bit about the RTMS timers, but we do things just like everyone else does for CPU, memory, Java Heap Stack. We can tell you how many concurrent users are on the system, I can tell you if there's an application that goes down unexpected, like a crash. I can tell you the response time from the network as most of us use Citrix at Cerner. And so what we do is we measure the amount of time it takes from the client side to PCs, it's sitting in the virtual data centers, sorry, in the hospitals, and then round trip to the Citrix servers that are sitting in the Kansas City data center. That's called the RTT, our round trip transactions. And what we've done is, over the last couple of years, what we've done is we've switched from just summarizing CPU and memory and all that high-level stuff, in order to go down to a user level. So, what are you doing, Dr. Smith, today? How many hours are you using the EMR? Have you experienced any slowness? Have you experienced any hourglass holding within your application? Have you experienced, unfortunately, maybe a crash? Have you experienced any slowness compared to your normal use case? And that's the step we've taken over the last few years, to go from summarization of high-level CPU memory, over to outcome metrics, which are what is really happening with a particular user. >> So, really granular views of how the system is being used and deep analytics on that. I wonder, go ahead, please. >> And, we weren't able to do that by summarizing things in traditional databases. You have to actually have the individual rows and you can't summarize information, you have to have individual metrics that point to exactly what's going on with a particular clinician. >> So, okay, the MPP architecture, the columnar store, the scalability of Vertica, that's what's key. That was my next question, let me take us back to the days of traditional RDBMS and then you brought in Vertica. Maybe you could give us a sense as to why, what that did for you, the before and after. >> Right. So, I'd been painting a picture going forward here about how traditionally, eight years ago, all we could do was summarize information. If CPU was going to go and jump up 8%, I could alarm the data center and say, hey, listen, CPU looks like it's higher, maybe an application's hanging more than it has been in the past. Things are a little slower, but I wouldn't be able to tell you who's affected. And that's where the whole thing has changed, when we brought Vertica in six years ago is that, we're able to take those 90,000 agents and commit a billion rows per hour operational data, and I can tell you exactly what's going on with each of our clinicians. Because you know, it's important for an entire domain to be healthy. But what about the 10 doctors that are experiencing frustration right now? If you're going to summarize that information and roll it up, you'll never know what those 10 doctors are experiencing and then guess what happens? They call the data center and complain, right? The squeaky wheels? We don't want that, we want to be able to show exactly who's experiencing a bad performance right now and be able to reach out to them before they call the help desk. >> So you're able to be proactive there, so you've gone from, Houston, we have a problem, we really can't tell you what it is, go figure it out, to, we see that there's an issue with these docs, or these users, and go figure that out and focus narrowly on where the problem is as opposed to trying to whack-a-mole. >> Exactly. And the other big thing that we've been able to do is corelation. So, we operate two gigantic data centers. And there's things that are shared, switches, network, shared storage, those things are shared. So if there is an issue that goes on with one of those pieces of equipment, it could affect multiple clients. Now that we have every row in Vertica, we have a new program in place called performance abnormality flags. And what we're able to do is provide a website in real time that goes through the entire stack from Citrix to network to database to back-end tier, all the way to the end-user desktop. And so if something was going to be related because we have a network switch going out of the data center or something's backing up slow, you can actually see which clients are on that switch, and, what we did five years ago before this, is we would deploy out five different teams to troubleshoot, right? Because five clients would call in, and they would all have the same problem. So, here you are having to spare teams trying to investigate why the same problem is happening. And now that we have all of the data within Vertica, we're able to show that in a real time fashion, through a very transparent dashboard. >> And so operational metrics throughout the stack, right? A game changer. >> It's very compact, right? I just label five different things, the stack from your end-user device all the way through the back-end to your database and all the way back. All that has to work properly, right? Including the network. >> How big is this, what are we talking about? However you measure it, terabytes, clusters. What can you share there? >> Sorry, you mean, the amount of data that we process within our data centers? >> Give us a fun fact. >> Absolute petabytes, yeah, for sure. And in Vertica right now we have two petabytes of data, and I purge it out every year, one year's worth of data within two different clusters. So we have to two different data centers I've been describing, what we've done is we've set Vertica up to be in both data centers, to be highly redundant, and then one of those is configured to do real-time analysis and corelation research, and then the other one is to provide service towards what I described earlier as our Lights On Network, so it's a very dedicated hardened cluster in one of our data centers to allow the Lights On Network to provide the transparency directly to our clients. So we want that one to be pristine, fast, and nobody touch it. As opposed to the other one, where, people are doing real-time, ad hoc queries, which sometimes aren't the best thing in the world. No matter what kind of database or how fast it is, people do bad things in databases and we just don't want that to affect what we show our clients in a transparent fashion. >> Yeah, I mean, for our audience, Vertica has always been aimed at these big, hairy, analytic problems, it's not for a tiny little data mart in a department, it's really the big scale problems. I wonder if I could ask you, so you guys, obviously, healthcare, with HIPAA and privacy, are you doing anything in the cloud, or is it all on-prem today? >> So, in the operational space that I manage, it's all on-premises, and that is changing. As I was describing earlier, we have an initiative to go to AWS and provide levels of service to countries like Sweden which does not want any operational data to leave that country's walls, whether it be operational data or whether it be PHI. And so, we have to be able to adapt into Vertia Eon Mode in order to provide the same services within Sweden. So obviously, Cerner's not going to go up and build a data center in every single country that requires us, so we're going to leverage our partnership with AWS to make this happen. >> Okay, so, I was going to ask you, so you're not running Eon Mode today, it's something that you're obviously interested in. AWS will allow you to keep the data locally in that region. In talking to a lot of practitioners, they're intrigued by this notion of being able to scale independently, storage from compute. They've said they wished that's a much more efficient way, I don't have to buy in chunks, if I'm out of storage, I don't have to buy compute, and vice-versa. So, maybe you could share with us what you're thinking, I know it's early days, but what's the logic behind the business case there? >> I think you're 100% correct in your assessment of taking compute away from storage. And, we do exactly what you say, we buy a server. And it has so much compute on it, and so much storage. And obviously, it's not scaled properly, right? Either storage runs out first or compute runs out first, but you're still paying big bucks for the entire server itself. So that's exactly why we're doing the POC right now for Eon Mode. And I sit on Vertica's TAB, the advisory board, and they've been doing a really good job of taking our requirements and listening to us, as to what we need. And that was probably number one or two on everybody's lists, was to separate storage from compute. And that's exactly what we're trying to do right now. >> Yeah, it's interesting, I've talked to some other customers that are on the customer advisory board. And Vertica is one of these companies that're pretty transparent about what goes on there. And I think that for the early adopters of Eon Mode there were some challenges with getting data into the new system, I know Vertica has been working on that very hard but you guys push Vertica pretty hard and from what I can tell, they listen. Your thoughts. >> They do listen, they do a great job. And even though the Big Data Conference is canceled, they're committed to having us go virtually to the CAD meeting on Monday, so I'm looking forward to that. They do listen to our requirements and they've been very very responsive. >> Nice. So, I wonder if you could give us some final thoughts as to where you want to take this thing. If you look down the road a year or two, what does success look like, Dan? >> That's a good question. Success means that we're a little bit more nimble as far as the different regions across the world that we can provide our services to. I want to do more corelation. I want to gather more information about what users are actually experiencing. I want to be able to have our phone never ring in our data center, I know that's a grand thought there. But I want to be able to look forward to measuring the data internally and reaching out to our clients when they have issues and then doing the proper corelation so that I can understand how things are intertwining if multiple clients are having an issue. That's the goal going forward. >> Well, in these trying times, during this crisis, it's critical that your operations are running smoothly. The last thing that organizations need right now, especially in healthcare, is disruption. So thank you for all the hard work that you and your teams are doing. I wish you and your family all the best. Stay safe, stay healthy, and thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> I really appreciate it, thanks for the opportunity. >> You're very welcome, and thank you, everybody, for watching, keep it right there, we'll be back with our next guest. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. Covering Virtual Vertica Big Data Conference. We'll be right back. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Announcer: From Seattle, Washington, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS IMAGINE Nonprofit. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in the waterfront in Seattle, Washington, it's absolutely gorgeous here the last couple of days. We're here for the AWS IMAGINE Nonprofit event. We were here a couple weeks ago for the education event, now they have a whole separate track for nonprofits, and what's really cool about nonprofits is these people, these companies are attacking very, very big, ugly problems. It's not advertising, it's not click here and get something, these are big things, and one of the biggest issues is human trafficking. You probably hear a lot about it, it's way bigger than I ever thought it was, and we're really excited to have an expert in the field that, again, is using the power of AWS technology as well as their organization to help fight this cause. And we're excited to have Brad Myles, he is the CEO of Polaris and just coming off a keynote, we're hearing all about your keynote. So Brad, first off, welcome. >> Yeah, well thank you, thank you for having me. >> Absolutely, so Polaris, give us a little bit about kind of what's the mission for people that aren't familiar with the company. >> Yeah, so Polaris, we are a nonprofit that works full-time on this issue. We both combat the issue and try to get to long-term solutions, and respond to the issue and restore freedom to survivors by operating the National Human Trafficking Hotline for the United States, so, it's part kind of big data and long-term solutions, and it's part responding to day-to-day cases that break across the country every day. >> Right, in preparing for this interview and spending some time on the site there was just some amazing things that just jump right off the page. 24.9 million people are involved in this. Is that just domestically here in the States, or is that globally? >> That's a global number. So when you're thinking about human trafficking, think about three buckets. The first bucket is any child, 17 or younger, being exploited in the commercial sex trade. The second bucket is any adult, 18 or over, who's in the sex trade by force, fraud, or coercion. And the third bucket is anyone forced to work in some sort of other labor or service industry by force, fraud, or coercion. So you've got the child sex trafficking bucket, you've got the adult sex trafficking bucket, and then you've got all the labor trafficking bucket, right? You add up those three buckets globally, that's the number that the International Labour Organization came out and said 25 million around the world are those three buckets in a given year. >> Right, and I think again, going through the website, some of the just crazy discoveries, it's the child sex trafficking you can kind of understand that that's part of the problem, the adult sex trafficking. But you had like 25 different human trafficking business models, I forget the term that was used, for a whole host of things well beyond just the sex trade. It's a very big and unfortunately mature industry. >> Totally, yeah, so we, so the first thing that we do that we're kind of known for is operating the National Human Trafficking Hotline. The National Human Trafficking Hotline leads to having a giant data set on trafficking, it's 50,000 cases of trafficking that we've worked on. So then we analyzed that data set and came to the breakthrough conclusion that there are these 25 major forms, and almost any single call that we get in to the National Hotline is going to be one of those 25 types. And once you know that then the problem doesn't seem so overwhelming, it's not, you know, thousands of different types, it's these 25 things, so, it's 18 labor trafficking types and seven sex trafficking types. And it enables a little bit more granular analysis than just saying sex trafficking or labor trafficking which is kind of too broad and general. Let's get really specific about it, we're talking about these late night janitors, or we're talking about these people in agriculture, or we're talking about these women in illicit massage businesses. It enables the conversation to get more focused. >> Right, it's so interesting right, that's such a big piece of the big data trend that we see all over the place, right? It used to be, you know, you had old data, a sample of old data that you took an aggregate of and worked off the averages. And now, because of big data, and the other tools that we have today, now actually you can work on individual cases. So as you look at it from a kind of a big data point of view, what are some of the things that you're able to do? And that lead directly to, everyone's talking about the presentation that you just got off of, in terms of training people to look for specific behaviors that fit the patterns, so you can start to break some of these cases. >> Exactly, so, I think that the human trafficking field risks being too generic. So if you're just saying to the populace, "Look for trafficking, look for someone who's scared." People are like, that's not enough, that's too vague, it's kind of slipping through my fingers. But if you say, "In this particular type of trafficking, "with traveling magazine sales crews, "if someone comes to your door "trying to sell you a magazine with these specific signs." So now instead of talking about general red flag indicators across all 25 types, we're coming up with red flag indicators for each of the 25 types. So instead of speaking in aggregate we're getting really specific, it's almost like specific gene therapy. And the data analysis on our data set is enabling that to happen, which makes the trafficking field smarter, we could get smarter about where victims are recruited from, we could get smarter about intervention points, and we could get smarter about where survivors might have a moment to kind of get help and get out. >> Right, so I got to dig into the magazine salesperson, 'cause I think we've all had the kid-- >> Brad: Have you had a kid come to you yet? >> Absolutely, and you know, you think first they're hustlin' but their papers are kind of torn up, and they've got their little certificate, certification. How does that business model work? >> Yeah, so that's one of the 25 types, they're called mag crews. There was a New York Times article written by a journalist named Ian Urbina who really studied this and it came out a number of years ago. Then they made a movie about it called "American Honey," if you watch with a number of stars. But essentially this is a very long-standing business model, it goes back 30 or 40 years of like the door-to-door salesperson, and like trying to win sympathy from people going to door-to-door sales. And then these kind of predatory groups decided to prey on disaffected U.S. citizen youth that are kind of bored, or are kind of working a low-wage job. And so they go up to these kids and they say, "Tired of working at the Waffle House? "Well why don't you join our crew and travel the country, "and party every night, and you'll be outdoors every day, "and it's coed, you get to hang out with girls, "you get to hang out with guys, "we'll drink every night and all you have to do "is sell magazines during the day." And it's kind of this alluring pitch, and then the crews turn violent, and there's sometimes quotas on the crew, there's sometimes coercion on the crew. We get a lot of calls from kids who are abandoned by the crew. Where the crew says, "If you act up "or if you don't adhere to our rules, "we'll just drive away and leave you in this city." >> Wherever. >> Is the crews are very mobile they have this whole language, they call it kind of jumping territory. So they'll drive from like Kansas City to a nearby state, and we'll get this call from this kid, they're like, "I'm totally homeless, my crew just left me behind "because I kind of didn't obey one of the rules." So a lot of people, when they think of human trafficking they're not thinking of like U.S. citizen kids knocking on your door. And we're not saying that every single magazine crew is human trafficking, but we are saying that if there's force, and coercion, and fraud, and lies, and people feel like they can't leave, and people feel like they're being coerced to work, this is actually a form of human trafficking of U.S. citizen youth which is not very well-known but we hear about it on the Hotline quite a lot. >> Right, so then I wonder if you could tell us more about the Delta story 'cause most of the people that are going to be watching this interview weren't here today to hear your keynote. So I wonder if you can explain kind of that whole process where you identified a specific situation, you train people that are in a position to make a difference and in fact they're making a big difference. >> Yeah. So the first big report that we released based on the Hotline data was the 25 types, right? We decided to do a followup to that called Intersections, where we reached out to survivors of trafficking and we said, "Can you tell us about "the legitimate businesses that your trafficker used "while you were being trafficked?" And all these survivors were like, "Yeah, sure, "we'll tell you about social media, "we'll tell you about transportation, "we'll tell you about banks, "we'll tell you about hotels." And so we then identified these six major industries that traffickers use that are using legitimate companies, like rental car companies, and airlines, and ridesharing companies. So then we reached out to a number of those corporate partners and said, "You don't want this stuff on your services, right?" And Delta really just jumped at this, they were just like, "We take this incredibly seriously. "We want our whole workforce trained. "We don't want any trafficker to feel like "they can kind of get away with it on our flights. "We want to be a leader in transportation." And then they began taking all these steps. Their CEO, Ed Bastian, took it very seriously. They launched a whole corporate-wide taskforce across departments, they hosted listening sessions with survivor leaders so survivors could coach them, and then they started launching this whole strategy around training their flight attendants, and then training their whole workforce, and then supporting the National Human Trafficking Hotline, they made some monetary donations to Polaris. We get situations on the Hotline where someone is in a dangerous situation and needs to be flown across the country, like an escape flight almost, and Delta donated SkyMiles for us to give to survivors who are trying to flee a situation, who needs a flight. They can go to an airport and get on a flight for free that will fly them across the country. So it's almost like a modern day Underground Railroad, kind of flying people on planes. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> So they've just been an amazing partner, and they even then took the bold step of saying, "Well let's air a PSA on our flights "so the customer base can see this." So when you're on a Delta flight you'll see this PSA about human trafficking. And it just kept going and going and going. So it's now been about a five-year partnership and lots of great work together. >> And catching bad guys. >> Yeah, I mean, their publicity of the National Human Trafficking Hotline has led to a major increase in calls. Airport signage, more employees looking for it, and I actually do believe that the notion of flying, if you're going to be a trafficker, flying on a Delta flight is now a much more harrowing experience because everyone's kind of trained, and eyes and ears are looking. So you're going to pivot towards another airline that hasn't done that training yet, which now speaks to the need that once one member of an industry steps up, all different members of the industry need to follow suit. So we're encouraging a lot of the other airlines to do similar training and we're seeing some others do that, which is great. >> Yeah, and how much of it was from the CEO, or did he kind of come on after the fact, or was there kind of a champion catalyst that was pushing this through the organization, or is that often the case, or what do you find in terms of adoption of a company to help you on your mission? >> That's a great question. I mean, the bigger picture here is trafficking is a $150 billion industry, right? A group of small nonprofits and cops are not going to solve it on their own. We need the big businesses to enter the fight, because the big businesses have the resources, they have the brand, they have the customer base, they have the scale to make it a fair fight, right? So in the past few years we're seeing big businesses really enter the fight against trafficking, whether or not that's big data companies like AWS, whether or not that's social media companies, Facebook, whether or not that's hotel companies, like Wyndham and Marriott, airlines like Delta. And that's great because now the big hitters are joining the trafficking fight, and it happens in different ways, sometimes it's CEO-led, I think in the case of Delta, Ed Bastian really does take this issue very seriously, he was hosting events on this at his home, he's hosted roundtables of other CEOs in the Atlanta area like UPS, and Chick-fil-A, and Home Depot, and Coca-Cola, all those Atlanta-based CEOs know each other well, he'll host roundtables about that, and I think it was kind of CEO-led. But in other corporations it's one die hard champion who might be like a mid-level employee, or a director, who just says, "We really got to do this," and then they drive more CEO attention. So we've seen it happen both ways, whether or not it's top-down, or kind of middle-driven-up. But the big picture is if we could get some of the biggest corporations in the world to take this issue seriously, to ask questions about who they contract with, to ask questions about what's in their supply chain, to educate their workforce, to talk about this in front of their millions of customers, it just puts the fight against trafficking on steroids than a group of nonprofits would be able to do alone. So I think we're in a whole different realm of the fight now that business is at the table. >> And is that pretty much your strategy in terms of where you get the leverage, do you think? Is to execute via a lot of these well-resourced companies that are at this intersection point, I think that's a really interesting way to address the problem. >> Yeah, well, it's back to the 25 types, right? So the strategies depend on type. Like, I don't think big businesses being at the table are necessarily going to solve magazine sales crews, right? They're not necessarily going to solve begging on the street. But they can solve late night janitors that sometimes are trafficked, where lots of big companies are contracting with late night janitorial crews, and they come at 2:00 a.m., and they buff the floors, and they kind of change out the trash, and no one's there in the office building to see those workers, right? And so asking different questions of who you procure contracts with, to say, "Hey, before we contract with you guys, "we're going to need to ask you a couple questions "about where these workers got here, "and what these workers thought they were coming to do, "and we need to ID these workers." The person holding the purse strings, who's buying that contract, has the power to demand the conditions of that contract. Especially in agriculture and large retail buyers. So I think that big corporations, it's definitely part of the strategy for certain types, it's not going to solve other types of trafficking. But let's say banks and financial institutions, if they start asking different questions of who's banking with them, just like they've done with terrorism financing they could wipe out trafficking financing, could actually play a gigantic role in changing the course of how that type of trafficking exists. >> So we could talk all day, I'm sure, but we don't have time, but I'm just curious, what should people do, A, if they just see something suspicious, you know, reach out to one of these kids selling magazines, or begging on the street, or looking suspicious at an airport, so, A, that's the question. And then two, if people want to get involved more generically, whether in their company, or personally, how do they get involved? >> Yeah, so there are thousands of nonprofit groups across the country, Polaris is in touch with 3,000 of them. We're one of thousands. I would say find an organization in your area that you care about and volunteer, get involved, donate, figure out what they need. Our website is polarisproject.org, we have a national Referral Directory of organizations across the country, and so that's one way. The other way is the National Human Trafficking Hotline, the number, 1-888-373-7888. The Hotline depends on either survivors calling in directly as a lifeline, or community members calling in who saw something suspicious. So we get lots of calls from people who were getting their nails done, and the woman was crying and talking about how she's not being paid, or people who are out to eat as a family and they see something in the restaurant, or people who are traveling and they see something that doesn't make, kind of, quite sense in a hotel or an airport. So we need an army of eyes and ears calling tips into the National Human Trafficking Hotline and identifying these cases, and we need survivors to know the number themselves too so that they can call in on their own behalf. We need to respond to the problem in the short-term, help get these people connected to help, and then we need to do the long-term solutions which involves data, and business, and changing business practice, and all of that. But I do think that if people want to kind of educate themselves, polarisproject.org, there are some kind of meta-organizations, there's a group called Freedom United that's kind of starting a grassroots movement against trafficking, freedomunited.org. So lots of great organizations to look into, and this is a bipartisan issue, this is an issue that most people care about, it's one of the top headlines in the newspapers every day these days. And it's something that I think people in this country naturally care about because it references kind of the history of chattel slavery, and some of those forms of slavery that morphed but never really went away, and we're still fighting that same fight today. >> In terms of, you know, we're here at AWS IMAGINE, and they're obviously putting a lot of resources behind this, Teresa Carlson and the team. How are you using them, have you always been on AWS? Has that platform enabled you to accomplish your mission better? >> Yeah, oh for sure, I mean, Polaris crunches over 60 terabytes of data per day, of just like the computing that we're doing, right? >> Jeff: And what types of data are you crunching? >> It's the data associated with Hotline calls, we collect up to 150 variables on each Hotline call. The Hotline calls come in, we have this data set of 50,000 cases of trafficking with very sensitive data, and the protections of that data, the cybersecurity associated with that data, the storage of that data. So since 2017, Polaris has been in existence since 2002, so we're in our 17th year now, but starting three years ago in 2017 we started really partnering with AWS, where we're migrating more of our data onto AWS, building some AI tools with AWS to help us process Hotline calls more efficiently. And then talking about potentially moving our, all of our data storage onto AWS so that we don't have our own server racks in our office, we still need to go through a number of steps to get there. But having AWS at the table, and then talking about the Impact Computing team and this, like, real big data crunching of like millions of trafficking cases globally, we haven't even started talking about that yet but I think that's like a next stage. So for now, it's getting our data stronger, more secure, building some of those AI bots to help us with our work, and then potentially considering us moving completely serverless, and all of those things are conversations we're having with AWS, and thrilled that AWS is making this an issue to the point that it was prioritized and featured at this conference, which was a big deal, to get in front of the whole audience and do a keynote, and we're very, very grateful for that. >> And you mentioned there's so many organizations involved, are you guys doing data aggregation, data consolidation, sharing, I mean there must be with so many organizations, that adds a lot of complexity, and a lot of data silos, to steal classic kind of IT terms. Are you working towards some kind of unification around that, or how does that look in the future? >> We would love to get to the point where different organizations are sharing their data set. We'd love to get to the point where different organizations are using, like, a shared case management tool, and collecting the same data so it's apples to apples. There are different organizations, like, Thorn is doing some amazing big data-- >> Jeff: Right, we've had Thorn on a couple of times. >> How do we merge Polaris's data set with Thorn's data set? We're not doing that yet, right? I think we're only doing baby steps. But I think the AWS platform could enable potentially a merger of Thorn's data with Polaris's data in some sort of data lake, right? So that's a great idea, we would love to get to that. I think the field isn't there yet. The field has kind of been, like, tech-starved for a number of years, but in the past five years has made a lot of progress. The field is mostly kind of small shelters and groups responding to survivors, and so this notion of like infusing the trafficking field with data is somewhat of a new concept, but it's enabling us to think much bigger about what's possible. >> Well Brad, again, we could go on all day, you know, really thankful for what you're doing for a whole lot of people that we don't see, or maybe we see and we're not noticing, so thank you for that, and uh. >> Absolutely. >> Look forward to catching up when you move the ball a little bit further down the field. >> Yeah, thank you for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here. >> All right, my pleasure. He's Brad, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at AWS IMAGINE Nonprofits, thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (futuristic music)

>> from Cambridge, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering M. I. T. Chief Data officer and Information Quality Symposium 2019. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. >> Welcome back to M. I. T. In Cambridge, Massachusetts. Everybody You're watching The Cube, the Leader and Live Tech coverage. My name is Dave Volante, and it's my pleasure to introduce Matt Kobe, who's the vice president of business strategy Analytics of Chicago Bulls. We love talking sports. We love talking data. Matt. Thanks for coming on. >> No problem getting a date. So talk about >> your role. Is the head of analytics for the Bulls? >> Sure. So I work exclusively on the business side of the operation. So we have a separate team that those the basketball side, which is kind of your players stuff. But on the business side, um, what we're focused on is really two things. One is being essentially internal consultants for the rest of the customer facing functions. So we work a lot with ticketing, allow its sponsorship, um, marketing digital, all of those folks that engage with our customer base and then on the backside back end of it, we're building out the technical infrastructure for the organization right. So everything from data warehouse to C. R M to email marketing All of that sits with my team. And so we were a lot of hats, which is exciting. But at the end of the day, we're trying to use data to enhance the customer and fan experience. Um and that's our aim. And that's what we're driving towards >> success in sports. In a larger respect. It's come down to don't be offended by this. Who's got the best geeks? So now your side of the house is not about like you say, player performance about the business performances. But that's it. That's a big part of getting the best players. I mean, if it's successful and all the nuances of the N B, A salary cap and everything else, but I think there is one, and so that makes it even more important. But you're helping fund. You know that in various ways, but so are the other two teams that completely separate. Is there a Chinese wall between them? Are you part of the sort of same group? >> Um, we're pretty separate. So the basketball folks do their thing. The business folks do their thing from an analytic standpoint. We meet and we collaborate on tools and other methods of actually doing the analysis. But in terms of, um, the analysis itself, there is a little bit of separation there, and mainly that is from priority standpoint. Obviously, the basketball stuff is the most important stuff. And so if we're working on both sides that we'd always be doing the basketball stuff and the business stuff needs to get done, >> drag you into exactly okay. But which came first? The chicken or the egg was It was the sort of post Moneyball activity applied to the N B. A. And I want to ask you a question about that. And then somebody said, Hey, we should do this for the business side. Or was the business side of sort of always there? >> I think I think, the business side and probably the last 5 to 7 years you've really seen it grown. So if you look at the N. B. A. I've been with the Bulls for five years. If you look at the N. B. A. 78 years ago, there was a handful of Business analytics teams and those those teams had one or two people at him. Now every single team in the NBA has some sort of business analytics team, and the average staff is seven. So my staff is six full time folks pushed myself, so we'll write it right at the average. And I think what you've seen is everything has become more complex in sports. Right? If you look at ticketing, you've got all the secondary markets. You have all this data flowing in, and they need someone to make sense of all that data. If you look at sponsorship sponsorship, his transition from selling a sign that sits on the side of the court for these truly integrated partnerships, where our partners are coming to us and saying, What do we get out of? This was our return. And so you're seeing a lot more part lot more collaboration between analytics and sponsorship to go back to those partners and say, Hey, here's what we delivered And so I think you it started on the basketball side, certainly because that's that's where the, you know that is the most important piece. But it quickly followed on the business side because they saw the value that that type of thinking can bring in the business. >> So I know this is not, you know, your swim lane, but But, you know, the lore of Billy Beane and Moneyball and all that, a sort of the starting point for sports analytics. Is that Is that Is that a fair characterization? Yeah. I mean, was that Was that really the main spring? >> I think it It probably started even before that. I think if you have got to see Billy being at the M I t Sports Analytics conference and him thought he always references kind of Bill James is first, and so I think it started. Baseball was I wouldn't say the easiest place to start, But it was. It's a one versus one, right? It's pitcher versus batter. In a lot of cases, basketball is a little bit more fluid. It's a team. Sport is a little harder, but I think as technology has advanced, there's been more and more opportunities to do the analytics on the basketball side and on the business side. I think what you're seeing is this huge. What we've heard the first day and 1/2 here, this huge influx of data, not nearly to the levels of the MasterCard's and others of the world. But as more and more things moved to the mobile phone, I think you're going to see this huge influx of data on the business side, and you're going to need the same systems in the same sort of approach to tackle it. >> S O. Bill James is the ultimate sports geek, and he's responsible for all these stats that, no, none of us understand. He's why we don't pay attention to batting average anymore. Of course, I still do. So let's talk about the business side of things. If you think about the business of baseball, you know it's all about maximizing the gate. Yeah, there's there's some revenue, a lot of revenue course from TV. But it's not like football, which is dominated by the by the TV. Basketball, I think, is probably a mix right. You got 80 whatever 82 game season, so filling up the stadium is important. Obviously, N v A has done a great job of of really getting it right. Free agency is like, fascinating. Now >> it's 12 months a year >> scored way. Talk about the NBA all the time and of course, you know, people like celebrities like LeBron have certainly helped, and now a whole batch of others. But what's the money side of the n ba look like? Where's the money coming from? >> Yeah, I mean, I think you certainly have broadcast right, but in many ways, like national broadcast sort of takes care of it itself. In some ways, from the standpoint of my team, doesn't have a lot of control over national broadcast money. That's a league level thing. And so the things that we have control over the two big buckets are ticketing and sponsorship. Those those are the two big buckets of revenue that my team spends a lot of time on. Ticketing is, is one that is important from the standpoint, as you say, which is like, How do we fill the building right? We've got 41 home game, supposed three preseason games. We got 44 events a year. Our goal is to fill the building for all 44 of those events. We do a pretty good job of doing it, but that has cascading effects into other revenue streams. Right, As you think about concessions and merchandise and sponsorship, it's a lot easier to spell spot cell of sponsorship when you're building is full, then if you're building isn't full. And so our focus is on. How do we? How do we fill the building in the most efficient way possible? And as you have things like the secondary market and people have access to tickets in different ways than they did 10 to 15 years ago, I think that becomes increasingly complex. Um, but that's the fun area that's like, That's where we spend a lot of time. There's the pricing, There's inventory management. It's a lot of, you know, is you look a traditional cpg. There's there's some of those same principles being applied, which is how do you are you looking airline right there? They're selling a plane. It's an asset you have to fill. We have ah, building. That's an asset we have to fill, and how do we fill it in the most optimal way? >> So the idea of surge pricing demand supply, But so several years ago, the Red Sox went to a tiered pricing. You guys do the same If the Sox are playing Kansas City Royals tickets way cheaper than if they're playing the Yankees. You guys do a similar. So >> we do it for single game tickets. So far are season ticket holders. It's the same price for every game, but on the price for primary tickets for single games, right? So if we're playing, you know this year will be the Clippers and the Lakers. That price is going to be much more expensive, so we dynamically price on a game to game basis. But our season ticket holders pay this. >> Why don't you do it for the season ticket holders? Um, just haven't gone there yet. >> Yeah, I mean, there's some teams have, right, so there's a few different approaches you convey. Lovely price. Those tickets, I think, for for us, the there's in years past. In the last few years, in particular, there's been a couple of flagship games, and then every other game feels similar. I think this will be the first year where you have 8 to 10 teams that really have a shot at winning the title, and so I think you'll see a more balanced schedule. Um, and so we've We've talked about it a lot. We just haven't gone to that made that move yet? >> Well, a season ticket holder that shares his tickets with seven other guys with red sauce. You could buy a BMW. You share the tickets, so but But I would love it if they didn't do the tiered. Pricing is a season ticket holder, so hope you hold off a while, but I don't know. It could maximize revenues if the Red Sox that was probably not a stupid thing is they're smart people. What about the sponsorships? Is fascinating about the partners looking for our ally. How are you measuring that? You're building your forging a tighter relationship, obviously, with the sponsors in these partners. Yeah, what's that are? Why look like it's >> measured? A variety of relies, largely based on the assets that they deliver. But I think every single partner we talk to these days, I also leave the sponsorship team. So I oversee. It's It's rare in sports, but I stayed over business strategy and Alex and sponsorship team. Um, it's not my title, but in practice, that's what I do. And I think everyone we talked to wants digital right? They want we've got over 25,000,000 social media followers with the Bulls, right? We've got 19,000,000 on Facebook alone. And so sponsors see those numbers and they know that we can deliver impression. They know we can deliver engagement and they want access to those channels. And so, from a return on, I always call a return on objectives, right? Return on investment is a little bit tricky, but return on objectives is if we're trying to reel brand awareness, we're gonna go back to them and say, Here's how many people came to our arena and saw your logo and saw the feature that you had on the scoreboard. If you're on our social media channels or a website, here's the number of impressions you got. Here is the number of engagements you got. I think where we're at now is Maura's Bad Morris. Still better, right? Everyone wants the big numbers. I think where you're starting to see it move, though, is that more isn't always better. We want the right folks engaging with our brands, and that's really what we're starting to think about is if you get 10,000,000 impressions, but they're 10,000,000 impressions to the wrong group of potential customers, that's not terribly helpful. for a brand. We're trying to work with our brands to reach the right demographics that they want to reach in order to actually build that brand awareness they want to build. >> What, What? Your primary social channels. Twitter, Obviously. >> So every platform has a different purpose way. Have Facebook, Twitter, instagram, Snapchat. We're in a week. We bow in in China and you know, every platform has a different function. Twitter's obviously more real time news. Um, you know the timeline stuff, it falls off really quick. Instagram is really the artistic piece of it on, and then Facebook is a blend of both, and so that's kind of how we deploy our channels. We have a whole social team that generates content and pushes that content out. But those are the channels we use and those air incredibly valuable. Now what you're starting to see is those channels are changing very rapidly, based on their own set of algorithms, of how they deliver content of fans. And so we're having to continue to adapt to those changing environments in those social >> show impressions. In the term, impressions varies by various platforms. So so I know. I know I'm more familiar with Twitter impressions. They have the definition. It's not just somebody who might have seen it. It's somebody that they believe actually spent a few seconds looking at. They have some algorithm to figure that out. Yeah. Is that a metric that you finding your brands are are buying into, for example? >> Yeah. I mean, I think certainly there they view it's kind of the old, you know, when you bought TV ads, it's how many households. So my commercial right, it's It's a similar type of metric of how many eyeballs saw a piece of content that we put out. I think we're the metrics. More people are starting to care about his engagements, which is how many of you actually engaged with that piece of content, whether it's a like a common a share, because then that's actual. Yeah, you might have seen it for three seconds, but we know how things work. You're scrolling pretty fast, But if you actually stopped to engage it with something, that's where I think brands are starting to see value. And as we think about our content, we have ah framework that our digital team uses. But one of the pillars of that is thumb stopping. We want to create content that is some stopping that people actually engage with. And that's been a big focus of ours. Last couple years, >> I presume. Using video, huge >> video We've got a whole graphics team that does custom graphics for whether it's stats or for history, historical anniversaries. We have a hole in house production team that does higher end, and then our digital team does more kind of straight from the phone raw footage. So we're using a variety of different mediums toe reach our fans >> that What's your background? How'd you get into all of this? >> I spent seven years in consulting, so I worked for Deloitte on their strategy group out of Chicago, And I worked for CPG companies like at the intersection of Retailer and CPG. So a lot of in store promotional work helping brands think through just General Revenue management, pricing strategy, promotional strategy and, um stumbled upon greatness with the Bulls job. A friend gave me the heads up that they were looking to fill this type of role and I was able to get my resume in the mix and I was lucky enough to get get the job, and it's been when I started. We're single, single, single, so it's a team of one. Five years later, we're a team of six, and we'll probably keep growing. So it's been an exciting ride and >> your background is >> maths. That's eyes business. Undergrad. And then I got a went Indian undergrad business and then went to Kellogg. Northwestern got an MBA on strategy, so that's my background. But it's, you know, I've dabbled in sports. I worked for the Chicago 2016 Olympic bid back in the day when I was at Deloitte. Um, and so it's been It's always been a dream of mine. I just never knew how I get there like I was wanted to work in sports. They just don't know the path. And I'm lucky enough to find the path a lot earlier than I thought. >> How about this conference? I know you have been the other M I T. Event. How about this one? How we found some of the key takeaways. Think you >> think it's been great because a lot of the conferences we go to our really sports focus? So you've got the M. I T Sports Analytics conference. You have seat. You have n b a type, um, programming that they put on. But it's nice to get out of sports and sort of see how other bigger industries are thinking about some of the problems specifically around data management and the influx of data and how they're thinking about it. It's always nice to kind of elevated. Just have some room to breathe and think and meet people that are not in sports and start to build those, you know, relationships and with thought leaders and things like that. So it's been great. It's my first time here. What are probably back >> good that Well, hopefully get to see a game, even though that stocks are playing that well. Thanks so much for coming in Cuba. No problems here on your own. You have me. It was great to have you. All right. Keep right, everybody. I'll be back with our next guest with Paul Gill on day Volante here in the house. You're watching the cue from M I T CEO. I cube. Right back

>> Voice Over: Live from Washington, D.C. It's the Cube! Covering AWS Public Sector Summit. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hello everyone welcome back to the Cube's live coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit here in Washington DC. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host John Furrier. We're joined by Kim Majerus. She is the leader, state and local government at AWS. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you for having me, I'm excited my first time so. >> John: Welcome to the Cube. >> Welcome! >> I'm excited! >> Rebecca: Your first rodeo. I'm sure you'll be a natural. >> Thank you. >> Let's start by telling our viewers a little bit about what you do, and how heading up the state and local is different from the folks who work more with the federal government. >> Sure. So I've been with Amazon a little over a couple of years and having responsibility for state and local government has really opened up my eyes to the transformation that that space is moving to. So when I think about our opportunity, it's not just state and local government, but it's actually the gov tax that are supporting that transformation in traditional environments. Everyone asks that questions, what's the difference between a federal versus a state and local? And I attribute it to this way, programs are very important in a federal space but what I'm focused on is every single city, county, state has aspirations to do things the way they want to do things, of how they need to address their specialized market. What people need in New York City might feel and look a little bit different in a small town in my home state. So when you look at the differences it's exciting to have the opportunity to impact there. >> And one of the things that you inherited in the job is state and local governments also, and we've heard this on the Cube from many guests that have been on, they didn't have the big IT budgets. >> No. >> And so, things to move the needle on R&D and experiment, you know Andy Jassy talks about experimentation and learning through failure, a lot of them don't have the luxury. And this changing landscapes, different diversity environments. >> Yeah absolutely. It's doing more with less, and each state struggles with that. And when you take a look at the budget and where state budget goes, it's predominantly in the health provider instances. So they have the responsibility to serve their constituents and their health, so what's left? You're competing with budgets for teachers, firefighters, first responders of all sorts, so they have to be very frugal with what they do and they have to learn from one another. I think that is one of the nicest things that we see across the states and the cities. >> Tell me about the community aspect of it because one of the things we're seeing on the trend side is the wave that's coming, besides all the normal investments they've got to make, is internet of things and digitization. Whether it's cameras on utility poles, to how to deal with policies just like self-driving cars and Uber. All these things are going on, right? >> Yep. >> Massive change going on, and it's first generation problems. >> Absolutely. >> Net New right? So where's the money going to come from? Where's the solutions going to come from? >> Save to invest right? So they're taking a look at Net New technologies that allows them to actually re-invest those savings into what the community's asking for. People don't want to stand in lines to get their driver's license or a permit. We just had a customer meeting, they were talking about how the challenge between the connected community. If you're in a city, in a county, who do you go and talk to? I need a building permit, do I go to the city, do I go to the county? But I don't want to go. I want to be able to do it in a different way. That's the generational change and we're seeing that, even local to the D.C. area, when you take a look at Arlington county, they have the highest population of millennials. How they want to interact with government is so different than what they've seen in times past. >> So talk to me about what, so what what are the kinds of innovations that Arlington needs to be thinking about according to you, in terms of how to meet these citizens where they are and what they're accustomed to? >> Expectations, I mean take a look at, we walk outside the street you see birds sitting around there and you've got to be able to give them transportation that is accustomed to what they do every single day. They want to buy, they want to communicate and more importantly they want to their services when they look for it. They don't want to have to go to the buildings, they want to have to, they want to be able to actually access the information, find exactly where they need to go to grab that specific service. I mean long is the day that you would stand there are say, well I don't know which office to go to, send me. People want to look and everything's got to be available and accessible. >> I mean this is classic definition of what Andy Jassy and Theresa talk about. Removing all that undifferentiated heavy-lifting. >> Yep, barriers. >> All this red tape, and the lack of budget. All these things kind of create this environment. What are you guys doing to address that? How do you get people over the hump to saying, okay, it's okay to start this journey, here's some successes, is it get a couple wins under your belt first? What's the process? Take us through it and use (mumbles). >> I think this has been probably one of the most refreshing parts for me to be a part of AWS. It's really starting with, what problem are you trying to solve for? What is the biggest issue that you have? And we work backwards from their needs. And it's a very different approach than how others have worked with our customers, our state and local customers, because we're used to selling them this thing for this opportunity, whereas we take three steps backwards and say let's start from the beginning. What issues are you having? What're your constituents having? Was with a group of CIOs on Monday and we went through this whole process of, who are your customers? And they would've thought, well it's an agency here and it's an agency there, and what they soon realized is, those are my stakeholders, those are not my customers. So if we really look at it more of a product versus a project with the state and local executives, it's really changing their perspective on how they could actually have a full cycle of opportunity, not a project-based solution. So when you think about how a constituent wants to work through the government, or access it's services, it will look and feel differently if you're thinking about the full life-cycle of it, not the activity. >> You know one thing I want to ask you that came up in a couple conversations earlier, and then what the key note was. The old days was if you worked for the government, it was slow, why keep the effort if you can't achieve the objective? I'm going to give up, people get indifferent, they abandon their initiatives. Now Andy and you guys are talking about the idea that you can get to the value proposition earlier. >> Yes. >> So, even though you can work backwards, which I appreciate, love the working backwards concept, but even more reality for the customer in public and local and state is like, they now see visibility into light at the end of the tunnel. So there's changing the game on what's gettable, what's attainable, which is aspirational. >> It might feel aspirational for those who have not embraced the art of what's possible, and I think one of the things that we've seen recently in another state. They had a workforce that liked to do what they did, as Andy said, "Touch the tin." And when you think about that whole concept, you never touch the tin. So now let's take a look at your workforce, how do we make being in government the way to, as Andy close it, to make the biggest impact for your local community. So some states are saying, what we've done is we still need the resources we have, but the resources that are moving up the stack and providing more of an engagement of difference, those are the ones that are taking those two pizza team type of opportunities and saying what are we going to do to change the way they interact? >> With real impact. >> With real impact. >> Andy also talked about real problems that could be solved, and he didn't really kind of say federal or any kind of category, he just kind of laid it out there generally. And this is what people care about, that work for state, local and federal. They actually want to solve problems so there are a lot of problems out there. What are you seeing at the state and local level that are on the top problem statements that you're seeing where Cloud is going to help them? >> A great example would be, when you think about all the siloed organizations within our community care. You're unable to track any one record, and a record could be an individual or an organization. So what they're doing is they're moving all those disparate data silos into an opportunity say let's dedupe-- how many constituents do we have? What type of services do they need? How do we become proactive? So when you take a look at someone who's moved into the community and their health record comes in, what're the services that they need? Because right now they have to go find those services and if they county were to do things more proactively, say hey, these are the services that you need, here is where you can actually go and get them. And it's those individual personalized engagements that, once you pull all that data together through all the different organizations, from the beginning of a 911 call for whatever reason, through their health record to say, this is the care that they, these are the cares that they have, and these are the services that they need, and oh by the way they might be allergic to something or they might have missed a doctor's appointment, let's go ensure that they are getting the healthcare. There's one state that's actually even thinking about their senior care. Why don't we go put an Alexa in their house to remind them that these are the medications that you need? You have a doctor's appointment at 2 o'clock, do you want me to order a ride for you to get to your doctor's appointment on time? That is proactive. >> And also the isolation for a lot of old people living by themselves, having another voice who can answer their question is actually incredibly meaningful. >> It is, and whether it's individual care to even some are up and rising drivers. A great application in Utah is they've actually used Alexa and wrote skills around Alexa so that they could pre-test at home before they go take their test are the driver's license facility. So when you think about these young kids coming into the government, how interactive and how exciting for them to say, hey, I'm going to take the time, I have my Alexa, she's going to ask me all the questions that I need to literally the other end of the spectrum to say, hey, I can order you an Uber, I could provide you with a reminder of your doctor's appointments or any health checks requirements that you might need along the way. >> So you're talking about the young people today engaging with government in this way, but what about actually entering the government as a career? Because right now we know that there's just such a poisonous atmosphere in Washington, extreme partisanship and it doesn't seem like a very, the government doesn't seem appealing to a lot of people. And when they are thinking about, even the people who are in Cloud, not necessarily in the public policy, what're you hearing, what're you thinking? What's AWS's position on this? >> This is where I love my brother and in the education space. So in two different areas we have California, Cal State Poly, and then we also have Arizona State University who have put in kicks. They're innovation centers are the university that they're enlisting these college students or maybe project based that are coming in and helping solve for some of the state and local government challenges. I think the important part is, if you could grab those individuals in early through that journey in maybe through their later years of education say, hey, you could write apps, you could help them innovate differently because it's through their lens. That gets them excited and I think it's important for everyone to understand the opportunity and whether it's two years, four years or a lifetime career, you've got to see it from the other side and I think, what we hear from the CIOs today across the states is they want to pull that talent in and they want to show them the opportunity, but more importantly they want to see the impact and hear from them what they need differently. So it's fun. >> There's a whole community vibe going on. >> Yeah. >> And we were riffing on day one on our intro about a new generation of skill, not just private and public sector, both. We have a collective intelligence and this is where open-data, openness, comes in, and that's resource. And I think a lot of people are looking at it differently and I think this is what gets my attention here at this event this year, besides the growth and size, is that Cloud is attracting smart people, it's attracting people who look at solutions that are possibly attainable, and for the first time you're seeing kind of progress. >> It's a blank sheet of paper. >> There's been progress before I don't mean to say there's no progress, there's new kinds of progress. >> I think the best part, and I say this to people who are working with Amazon, when you think about a blank sheet of paper, that's where we're at. And I think that's the legacy that we need to get through, it's like this is the way we've done it, this is the way we've always done it. In state and local government we're dealing with procurement challenges, they know how to do CATPACs, they don't know how to OPECs, so how can you help us change the way they look at assets, and more importantly, break through those barriers so that we could start with a blank sheet of paper and build from the ground-up what's needed, versus just keep on building on what was out there. >> So that mean education's paramount for you. So what're you guys doing with education? Share some notable things that are important that are going on that are on education initiatives that you can help people. >> It's starting at the 101. Again I think it's the partnership with the education, what we have in the community college, and even starting in high school, is get people interested in Cloud. But for state and local customers today, it is about workforce redevelopment and giving them the basic tools so that they could rebuild. And there are going to be people that are going to opt-in, and there's going to be people that say, I'm fine where I'm at thank you very much, and there's a place and, more importantly, there's plenty of opportunity for them there. So we're providing them with AWS Educate, we're providing them with our support locally through my team, but the important part is you get in, show them, put their hands on the keyboards and let them go 'cause once they start they're like, I didn't realize I could do that, I didn't understand the value and the opportunity and the cost savings that I could move through with these applications. >> And there's so many jobs out there, I mean Amazon is just one company that's in Cloud. There's Machine Learning, there's AI, there's all kinds of analytics. All kinds of new job opportunities that there's openings for, it's not like. No one's skilled enough! We need more people. >> I'll give you another. There was a great case study in there, they actually did a session here this week, LA County. They get 800-900 calls a day just within an IT, one of the IT organizations and Benny would say, my customer is those who are working in the county. So they've been able to move to CANACT, and now they have a sentiment scale, they are able to not only intake, transcribe, comprehend, but they're able to see the trends that they're saying. What that's been able to save by ways of time and assets and resources it's really allowing them to focus on what's the next generation service that they could deliver differently, and more importantly, cost-effectively. >> Where in the US, 'cause Andy talked about the middle class shrinking with the whole reference to the mills going out of the business, inferring that digital's coming. Where do you see the trends in the US, outside of the major metros like Silicon Valley, New York, et cetera, Austin, where there's growth in digital mind IQ? Are you seeing, obviously we joke with the Minnesota guys, it's O'Shannon on and we had Troy on earlier, both from Minnesota. But is there areas that you're seeing that's kind of flowering up in terms of, ripe for investment for in-migration, or people staying within their states. Because out-migration has been a big problem with these states in the middle of the country. They want to keep people in the state, have in-migration. What're you areas of success been for digital? >> You know what, look at Kansas City. Great use case, smart connected city, IOT. If you take a look at what their aspirations were, it was to rejuvenate that downtown area. It's all started with a street car and the question was, when people got off that street car did they go right or did they go left? And they weren't going left and the question was why? Well when they looked and they surveyed, well there's nothing there, the coffee shops there. So what they did proactively, because this is about providing affordable opportunity for businesses, but more importantly, students and younger that are moving out of home, they put a coffee shop there. Then they put a convenience store, then they put a sandwich shop down there and they started to build this environment that allowed more people to move in and be in that community. It's not about running to the big city, it's about staying maybe where you're at but in a new way. So Kansas City I think has done a fantastic job. >> And then having jobs to work remotely 'cause you're seeing now remote, virtual-first companies are being born and this is kind of a new generational thing where it's not Cloud first. >> Work is where you're at, it's not where you go. >> And yet we do need >> That's an opportunity. >> Clusters of smart people and these sort of centers of innovation beyond just the coasts. >> I'm out of Chicago. I obviously have headquarters in D.C. for public sector and corporate out of Seattle. I think there is a time and place that is required to be there when we're working on those projects or we require that deep time. But I want to be available to my team, and more importantly to my customers, and when I see my customers, my customers are not all in city buildings or county buildings or state buildings. They're all over. So it's actually refreshing to see the state government and local governments actually promote some of that. It's like well hey I'm not going to the office today, let's go meet in this location so that we could figure out how to get through these challenges. It has to be that way because people want to be a part of their community in a different way, and it doesn't necessarily mean being in an office. >> Exactly. >> Okay Kim, well to check in with you and to find out your progress on the state and local, certainly it's real opportunity for jobs and revitalization crossed with digital. >> Yep, as Andy would put it, when we look at this space, it's a labor of love and it's the biggest impact that I could make in my career. >> And tech for good. >> And tech for good. >> Excellent, well thank you so much Kim. >> Thank you. Goodbye. >> Stay tuned for my of the Cube's live coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit. (outro music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering NetApp Insight 2018, brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman, live in Las Vegas at Mandalay Bay at NetApp Insight 2018, the third annual with customers, partners, endless press, NetAppians. We're excited to welcome two alumni back to theCUBE. We have Nancy Hart, Head of Marketing for Cloud Infrastructure at NetApp, and Dale Degen, Cloud Infrastructure Business Director. Guys, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you so much. It's so great to see you guys again. >> Likewise. So we got back from a standing room only keynote, thousands of people here, and one of the interesting things, Nancy, that Stu and I both observed were today no product announcements. It was really about concepts. The first time we heard anything architecture related was really the Data Fabric, but George Kurian, the CEO of NetApp, talked about the four principles of digital transformation. >> Nancy: Right >> I wonder if we can unpack those with you guys. >> Nancy: Yes >> The first one talking about digital transformation requires IT transformation. >> Nancy: Yes >> Talk to us about that speed as the new scale. What does that mean for NetAPP as a company that needs transformed... >> Nancy: Right >> and to your customers? >> So it means for our customers the idea is that speed is the new scale, right. That to create new businesses, to create new opportunities, to create new revenues, there has to be a lot more agile and agilent on their ITs. Right. So, NetApp will really focus on doing is how to break down the barriers between Dev and Ops. The days of silos, months of provisioning all of that is now gone. Because companies need to now help their teams build faster, build better, and that's really what George was talking about, in this idea that the speed is the new scale. And if our customers are not driving IT agile... Agile IT operations on their own data centers, their competitors certainly are. >> How does... NetApp talks a lot about being driven, the data authority and hybrid cloud. George also said hybrid clouds do in multi-cloud or the defacto architecture. >> Yes >> When you talk with customers, how do they digest "NetApp's going to help "me be data driven?" >> Nancy: Right >> What's that conversation like? >> So, looks like a lot these days, we have our customers, they have their own users, their own internal DevOps team who have gotten very used to taking their Corporate AMEX and running up the Amazon, setting up a new compute shape or storage. The thing is we see customers are trying to rebalance where they put their data cap with data, where they put their applications. Do somethings being, belong in public cloud? Absolutely, but there is also this natural rebalance, that not every application should be in the cloud. For reasons of data governance, perhaps cost, whatever it is, when they build that next new application, it may be in the data center. So, to make that work is the idea of a hybrid multi-cloud experience, and the key part of that is the experience. It's not a management experience. It's a consumption experience. It's a very seamless, simple consumption experience if you've got up in the public cloud, but in a private cloud in your data center. >> Stu: Nancy, I like that. We've always, we've been saying on theCUBE for a couple of years now, cloud is not a destination, it's an operating model. >> Yes It's the way we need to think things, but Dale, when I talk to customers, we talk about their cloud strategy, we talk about what they want, every single one of them, totally different. How much they're doing SaaS , versus how many mulvic public lines they're doing, and of course, they're still figuring out what they've got in their traditional data centers. And its that certain companies have been selling them multiple products, they've got their data all spread out, so, are we getting away from silos, how architecturally do we build this? There's so much differentiation out in the marketplace today. It'd be lovely to have a magic wand and say "Oh, everything's, "you know, simple." But that really hasn't been the case in an enterprise IT. >> Dale: I think you nailed it the way you described it right there You have an enterprises that have built up a collection of applications, some of them have been given a cloud mandate. And so, that means something different to everyone. Sometimes they're going out all SaaS, sometimes they're saying, "I want to put everything, "all my storage in the cloud." We're seeing an interesting moment in time where, there's almost a reaction to that, and finding out maybe there's silos within different public cloud service providers, maybe the monthly cost is a little bit larger than what people might have expected on that. At NetApp, we've been working with our customers, I kind of love being here because the last couple years has just been this huge transformation of the company around that, taking a lot of our customers have viewed us as number one in storage the trusted provider on that. I really, expanding out to a more data driven solution on there. And things we've done internally to address side is really focused on different business imperatives there. Because I think each of our customers has their data center that they need their rock solid applications on. They're thinking about this journey to the cloud. They're trying to innovate with acceleration in the cloud with different services with the cloud public... the biggest public clouds and along the way they're also saying "I need some of that agility internally." And so we've, we've really built that, to build out your kind of a hybrid multi cloud experience. And the company strategy is coming together. We're seeing investments, we're seeing growth and announcements and all of those. >> So one of the interesting things that I observed in the keynote this morning was NetApp being 26 year old, 26 years young company, right? Massive install base. You've got a lot of customers who were not born in the digital age and George Kurian your CEO seems to kind of address them almost right out of the gate. >> Nancy: Yes. >> So let's talk about the data fabric a little bit more. Let's unpack that because some of the messaging seems to be reflecting that, that, and I think Anthony liked talked about this a little bit this morning in the keynote as well. It, it's, it's transforming from a vision to an architecture for your customers, your incumbent enterprise customers who were not born in the cloud, what does being data driven mean to them? How are they embracing this architecture idea of the data fabric and using it to use their data to identify new customer touchpoints, deliver new services, increased revenue? >> Dale: So we're seeing a lot of our customers really transform their business to take advantage of these new services in the cloud. The value that a lot of them are bringing to us is they have a massive amount of institutional data that maybe was in different silos. May be they had different as a service offerings touching it. We're able to bring it together with the data fabric. So now they can consolidate this into a large amount of tangible data. You can have multiple as a service solutions and services coming from public cloud service providers to do analytics on data. For example, we have energy companies that have seismic data from 50 years ago that is sitting on tapes. It's better than anything they could even get today. They bring it all together and now they're doing data analytics on this and they're finding new ways to really take advantage of that. So we're seeing that across the board and we're, Our goal is to try to move them along that journey. >> Nancy: Yes >> Stu: Nancy, could you give us a little insight as to who you're selling to? >> Yes Where is NetApp getting involved in kind of those strategic discussions? As I said, >> Great >> you know everybody's got a cloud strategy, but I said usually the external still drawing and it's something you need to revisit often so you know where is NetApp seat at that table? You've got a lot of partners here >> Nancy: Yes >> and how are things changing? >> Nancy: So, a lot of things are changing a lot of ways for Netapp and the companies that we're selling to and who we're selling to at those companies. We certainly see a lot of new buyers and it's interesting to see now that the decision making, the who's sitting at the decision table when they make that decision of what kind of infrastructure to purchase, is it getting larger and larger group and now we're really seeing the Dev teams, their internal Dev ops teams have a seat at that table who are and they're having significant influence on the infrastructure and operations teams on what kind of investments that companies should be making. Right, so, working with partners, going to market through the largest public hyper scalers and reaching these new buyers and new and existing accounts as well. So even if there is a traditional part of the data center, I guarantee you somewhere in every company there's a new Dev team working on new business models. And so we want to attend (mumbles) >> Lisa: Does the conversation Nancy, start at the business outcomes level? >> Nancy: Absolutely. >> And, and your perspective, how are you seeing some of the more technical folks in an organization participating in a business outcomes driven conversation where it's more about these are the things we need to do to, to compete to increase our revenue. What, how is that persona based conversation changing? So actually I have a story from a customer meeting earlier this week, right? And so we were talking with the customer about data fabric and what we can do and how we can deliver a seamless experience between public and private clouds. And we walked out of their room and the gentleman from the customer who's I walked in that room as a storage admin and I walked out as a data fabric architect. Right. >> Lisa: It's pretty good validation >> It's pretty good validation. It's happening right now like the personas, even personas that we've traditionally known are certainly changing. What do yo say? >> So that point we're seeing some of the attributes that service providers are offering. We're seeing enterprises at the same time trying to build those up scale. And it's really been amazing as we're seeing you, you spoke about speed is the new agility on here and it's really the agility to be kind of build those infrastructures quickly and take advantage of that at a business advantage level. And a lot of the most technical customers of ours are saying now they're kind of at a, they have a seat at the table to kind of inspire some of those business innovations. They, they see how they could make the company more efficient and all of a sudden they're getting a lot more attention at the C level. >> Stu: Alright. So a few years ago there was the wave of big data, you know, it was really what I summed it up. One of the key findings was it was that bit flip of saying, oh my gosh, I have so much data to, Oh yes, yes, I've got so much data and I can take advantage of it. What I want you to help connect us is when you talk about being data driven, NetApp at its core is you know, there's storage, there's infrastructure, there's software. How do I then get the insights and the value out of the data, the data that I've helped my customers get to? >> Nancy: So let me give you an example of what NetApp is doing around this very issue, right? So we have a very large install base like you talked about. We have a new product called the active IQ. And what it does is based on community wisdom pulled from 30,000 or more installed systems across our entire customer base. And what we do is we use AI ML to extract value and intelligent insights and then actionable plans for our customers. So even if a customer doesn't have 30,000 units installed, they can take advantage of all of that knowledge themselves. So we drink our own champagne and we apply the things that we learned, but we can also help customers do the same thing in their own business as an extract value from their own data. >> Lisa: I'm curious too, from a company as as history does NetApp, formerly network appliance, how is NetApp drinking our own champagne example? How does that influence customers perspective on NetApp's transformation and convince a customer to trust NetApp and go, "yes, this is a partner "that I want to work with "to help us be able "to just do point, "not just a mass, "a tonne of data "and the silo, "but extract insights that are "essential to try this, this change." >> Dale: So we actually have some breakout sessions here where NetApp IT is speaking to that a talking about how we have NetApp on NetApp. You know we've got the active IQ data coming in, so an all flash fas tier being teared down through east series to object storage to a giant data lake of active IQ doing analytics on that. And so that's a great reference for us. We're able to have them speak to our customers directly, eye to eye in our executive briefing center, and oftentimes that pushes them over the edge on that one. >> Nancy: Because we're living the dream and we're making our own mistakes along the way and so when we have folks from our NetApp's own IT department come speak with customers, it's very credible about we did this at work, we did this. It didn't work so much. Right? But we're in that same transformation journey as our customers as well. >> Well, the failure I always say is my, It's not a bad word. It's part of that journey. >> Nancy: Yes. Well, finishing up Nancy with you. Talk to us about the media customer example that really articulates the value that NetApp is delivering as an enabler of the data driven company. >> So one of my favorites these days as we work with a company called Children's Mercy Hospital, Kansas City, right? And they brought us new Ciox and he was really interested in transforming the IT experience for his clinicians. Right. These are the people that work with kids in the hospital, sick kids, they're stressed out families. And I love this story because it's very easy for me to imagine if my child was in the hospital, how stressed out I would be to have a clinician walk in fast, easy access, the latest data about my child, a happy clinician. That would be such an impact to me. And so to see what our customers are doing at children's mercy and they'll also multi cloud they've got their own private clouds are accelerating their VDI, they're working with public clouds all through NetApp product in the end to help those kids and to help maybe some moms on wherever you are, just a smidge less. >> Lisa: Are you helping them to use some of the emerging technologies, IoT AI to drive faster, better outcomes and decision making for these in these critical literally life and death situations? >> So the first project we're working on them as about accelerating their VDI. How does he get a virtual desktop to all his clinician? So whatever room that clinician is in, he has access. So she has access to the latest data about that child. Right. And to make the overall just a better experience so that the new ciox is very keen on just delivering a better experience, not better technology, but a better experience for his clinicians and for his patients. >> Nancy, Dale, thanks so much for stopping by on day one of insight. We appreciate your time. Got to give you some cubes stickers because you're doubling the alumni now. Real. Exactly. We want to thank you. I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman for watching the cube. Again, we're live all day at NetApp Insight 2018. Stick around. Stu and I will be right back with our next guest.

>> Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE. Covering Microsoft Ignite. Brought to you by Cohesity and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite here in Orlando. I am your host Rebecca Night, hosting, co-hosting along side Stu Miniman. We are joined today by Steven Rosenthal. He is the senior product specialist at QTS Data Centers. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> You're welcome, thank you. >> So let's start by finding out a little bit more about QTS, based in Kansas City. What do you do? What are you all about? >> Yeah, so QTS is based in Overland Park, Kansas. We have our operations based in, actually right outside of Atlanta in Suwanee, Georgia where actually I'm from. And we have 16 data centers across the United States, about six million square feet of data center floor. We cater to everybody from hyperscalers, the hyperscalers of the world that everybody, I think, knows about, to enterprises, to federal customers. We have product lines that cover, again, hyperscale, co-location, private cloud; which I think we'll talk about today and mannered services around that private cloud offering. >> I know Stu is dying to talk private cloud with you but-- (Stu Laughs) Can you just tell us a little bit about how you fit in precisely with the Microsoft Ecosystem? >> Yeah, so, we fit in because we will offer Azure Management, so for customers that will have work loads up on Azure, we can help manage that and we also have dedicated connections through our connectivity products that will get you to Azure from our data centers. So, that's how we kind of fit into this ecosystem. >> Alright, so, just to geek out on that one little bit, when I talk to a lot of service providers, things like AWS direct connect, and Azure Express Route are one of the things we're seeing just massive adoption on being able to take my own stuff and plug it in or use services from the public clouds. Do you offer all of those? >> So we have AWS Direct Connect in our Chicago data center that we can cross connect to you, to that via our other data centers. We're also utilizing the software to find networks as back-up fabric and megaport to get you to those direct routes into Azure and AWS. >> Okay, great. So you do have the way to, 'cause the discussion has been, for a few years it went from hosting to service providers and, oh wait, public cloud is the enemy. And now I think we've matured a lot. It's like, yes, of course there's competition there, but as SoftDel and Microsoft said, look we're going to compete against people, we're going to partner with a lot of people. And, of course, your customer's are using everything. >> Yeah, I don't think it's just a line. We definitely partner with the public cloud offerings. It's not if you can't beat them join them, there is a workload for public cloud, there's workloads for private clouds and we can get into that into detail, but there is absolutely a partnership that we can have there and not a competitive partnership. >> Yeah and I actually, let's bridge that discussion over to the private cloud discussion. You know, I will give you the one there is no answer for it, but how are customer's sorting this thing out? How are you dealing with it? What do they put where? How do you help them with that discussion? >> You know, what we're finding is customers are anywhere from all into public cloud, to I'm kind of just dabbling in it and maybe putting my toe into it. And we can go in and help them along their cloud journey. So, because of the integrative products that we have within QTS, we can help you from just being a co-location customer to kind of dipping your toe in a little bit with some public clouds. Getting you that direct access via AWS Direct Connect or via software to find networking, helping you manage that, but there is workloads out there that customers just want to know where their data is. Where is my data? When you go to a public cloud, I'm not saying it's not safe, it's not secure, but we all know there's issues that sometimes they go down and there's customers, for compliancy reasons, for whatever reason they have, they want to know my data is in Suwanee, Georgia and due to the private cloud, and we know it's always there, we can provide that to the customer. >> Do you think that customer anxiety of where is my data will always exist for certain clients or do you think we will actually get to a point in the cloud computing evolution where people feel really secure? >> You know, I think if you look over the last few years, people are a lot more secure today than they were three years ago, two years ago or even one year ago. So, if I had a crystal ball, I think people will get a little bit more comfortable, but I think customer's in finance-- >> Healthcare. >> Healthcare. They're all going to really be nervous about where that data is, so there's always going to be that need for that. Certain workloads, I want here. The rest of it, yeah, we can put up in public cloud, but I want to know that this data resides in this data center. >> Yeah. I mean, governance and compliance is obviously going to play into that. So, let's talk about the private cloud. In our research, we started a few years ago, we said, what customer's need is true private cloud. And we said that because cloud should really be an operating model and the public cloud really set the bar as to, how I consume, how I manage, how I don't have to get into some of the pieces, so, to do that, you really need to kind of modernize the platform. Maybe bring us through your journey as to how you've seen it versus just kind of, I had a bunch of servers in Iraq, versus how do you define what is private cloud for your environment today? >> Yeah, so at QTS, we define the entire stack is dedicated to a customer. That's everything from the Nutanix hardware that we use and we decide to use as our infrastructure base for this. All the way up to the Cisco 9K's that we support. Everything is dedicated to that customer. So, there's no multi-tendency at all within that. So, there's no noisy neighbors, there's nobody next to you that you may not know what they're doing. Our journey started about a year ago, maybe a little bit more. Where we saw that, as everyone probably did, the evolution of the customer going to that true hybrid model. That not everything is going to public. They, again, not to repeat myself, but there are some workloads that stay within the private cloud and they needed somewhere to put that. Customers also were looking for more of an optics model than a capics model. We can host that for them within our data centers, provide all the data center services that we provide to our COLO customer's around duplicate power and the security that we provide and allow them to host that within our data centers. So that's what we're seeing in our customers and that's what is really driving that. >> Alright. When Nutanix positions the enterprise, it really is about that simplicity that they can offer. Service providers often have different metrics as to how you determine. What lead you to the Nutanix solution? How does that fit in your over all operations? >> Yeah. Honestly, we did, for lack of better terms, a bake off. We looked at competitors out there but Nutanix, by far, they have a right to be in that Gartner Magic Quadrant because, one, their support is just excellent, that we have found from them everything that we needed from them. They were right there and helping us. Up until now and we don't think they're going anywhere either, right? Nutanix has been one of our best technology partners that we've brought on board. And we see the benefits of the hyper-converged environment, allowing us, you talked about people want that cloud experience >> Right. >> The loud experience is, I want to be able to swipe my credit card and have a server running in five minutes. That's not what dedicated private clouds are, but they might want it less than 30 days, less than 60 days. Having hyper-converged there, we can provide that to the customer, get them up and running in a matter of weeks, not a matter of months. You know with their traditional architecture. >> One of the things we're hearing a lot at this conference is the importance of having the right kinds of partners and making sure that there is a lot of trust embedded in the relationship. >> Right. >> You just described, choosing Nutanix, having this bake off, how else do you walk through the, can you walk our viewers through the process of how you choose the right people that you want to do business with, from sort of a business mindset stand point, but also, complimentary functionality? >> I think a couple things. One, we obviously look at the technology. Technology for us is, if not number one, it's up there as pretty close to number one. Does the technology meet the needs of our customers? Can we provide the service with the service level agreements that we have in place? Around our hosted private cloud, we have 100% SLA around that, so we want to make sure that we can meet that for the customer. So, the technology has to be there. Then, outside the technology, the support. This is technology, technology's going to have issues. If we can make sure we have the support to back that up, so if a customer or we have an issue with the infrastructure, we can bring that back online as quick as possible. Then we look at, how closely they can do, you know, co-market with us, especially Nutanix. We do a lot of things co-marketing with Nutanix. We put on panels within our data centers. We've been doing this for the past, almost a year now, with Nutanix, ourselves, maybe we'll have AWS sit on it, we'll have Cohesity sit on it, and bring in customers or prospects into our data centers and have different topics around there, so all of that kind of mixed together, provides a really good partnership for us. >> Great. >> Steve, we talked a little bit about how Azure on the public cloud fits in. How does Microsoft fit in on the private cloud discussion? >> So, most of our customers are running Windows. I mean that's really where it fits in. >> Of course. >> Currently, our hosted private cloud runs VMRS as a hypervisor-- >> Right. >> But most of the customers are running Windows as their operating system. >> Absolutely. Still, I mean, from the early days until today, the applications sits on top. Microsoft has all the business apps up there. Been a lot of announcements at the show. Windows Server 2019, talking a lot about the shift to SaaS. How are you seeing, is that still a big driver for your customers, the generational shifts of Windows and what about the changing workloads? I'm curious about how those impact you. >> Yeah, absolutely. The changing workloads definitely drives our business and as you pointed out, a lot of those are going to either Office 365, going up to Azure. We're getting a lot more customers asking us for Azure these days. I don't want to put AWS against Azure, but we are at the Microsoft show, obviously. We're getting a lot of customers who are driving their business up to Azure and to be able to support that within our community is really important to be able to support that customer, so we are definitely seeing that drive towards those types of workloads. >> You're an industry veteran. You've been in IT for 25 years. I wonder if you could talk about this point in time that we're at now. It feels like an inflection point, but maybe I'm wrong. Can you sort of paint this point in time, in the greater context of the cloud computing revolution. >> I think hybrid is the word. Right? I know it's a marketing word. I know a lot of people use it, but I think it really has hit today. Where you have companies that say, hey, we are all in on public cloud and I think that's a great marketing term, but if you really look at all of their workloads, they don't have everything up there, but even if they have 90%, 10% of their workloads are Legacy applications that they would have to re-write to be able to really work in the public cloud and these applications are running just fine where they are, they don't want to touch them. So, I think that hybrid model is where we are today and it's only going to grow. >> Steven, I'm curious, we watched for a while, public cloud polled on the data center apps, but now we have the Edge out there. You talk about IOT, you talk about what machine to machine type technology is going to push things back out, not going to be in some central location. Is that having an impact yet on your business, how would you play in some of these IOT environments? >> Yeah, we are constantly looking at the new technologies out there, especially the autonomous cars is something that we are looking at very heavily and they require, there's something like six terabytes of data that gets passed back and forth between that car and whatever service is running that car and that's got to be somewhere on the Edge, but I think if you look back at how people were defining private cloud a couple years ago, how are people are defining Edge is very different. And over the next year or two, we will get more common, how people are defining Edge Computing will become a lot more common. So, we're looking at how do we plan that market? Do we have to have data centers closer to the Edge, wherever that edge is, in cities that you typically don't see data centers. You're probably going to have a different type of data center within that city too. >> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. The edge is very different if you are a telecom provider versus an enterprise, what you said. That data center is going to be a pop, is it going to be something in a wireless tower-- >> Is it going to be in a closet somewhere that supports it? >> It's all going to be something that just fits on a wrist at some point in the future, right? (all laughing) >> Yeah. It's going to fit right there. >> Yeah, check on my data. So, getting back to the cities that you don't necessarily think of. I mean, you're a tech, a cutting edge tech company, based in Kansas City, the Heartland. >> Right. >> How do you find, is it difficult to recruit talent because frankly even the companies in Silicone Valley and Washington and Boston, they're having trouble recruiting talent. Where do you come down? >> I think it's not only recruiting the talent, it's keeping the talent; which QTS is very good about keeping the talent. I think if you look at our attrition rate, it's probably some of the lowest in the industry 'cause we have a culture that people want to stay in, but even though our headquarters are in Overland Park, Kansas, again, our, really our operations headquarters are outside of Atlanta, Georgia in Suwanne which is probably just about 30 miles north. So, we have Georgia Tech that we can pull from, you have Emory that you can pull from and, you know, the entire Georgia University system. I don't want to leave anybody out that we can pull from. And we have data centers around the country, even in Silicone Valley, we have Santa Clara, which we can pull from the Silicone Valley individuals. Dallas has a lot of tech companies, so we're not just pulling from one market, we're pulling from 16 different markets across the country, which helps us a lot not just to dry up a single market. >> You said that QTS has a culture that people want to stay and Microsoft is touting its culture as collaborative, inclusive. Describe QTS's culture. >> Our culture, a lot of people ask me that and it's like, you got to live it. It's very, very family-oriented. I know a lot of people say that, but we live it. We care about each other. Nobody walks around going, it's not my job. Everybody is there to support the customer. We are very customer-focused, you can see that in our NPS scores. Our NPS scores are very high in the industry, probably some of the highest out there. So, and that goes back to just how we take care of our customers. And we look, goes back to your question about, what do we look for in partners, Nutanix probably has a very high NPS score and we want to make sure that our partners are treating our customers as we want to treat our customers. >> Great. Well, Steven, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman, we will have more from Microsoft Ignite, coming up in just a little bit.

>> ANNOUNCER: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VM World 2017. Brought to you by Vmware and its ecosystem partner. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman here with John Troyer and excited to welcome back to the program Chris Wahl, who's the Chief Technologist at Rubrik. Chris, thanks for joining us. >> Oh, my pleasure. It's my first VMworld CUBE appearance so I'm super stoked. >> Yeah, we're pretty excited that you hang out with, you know, just a couple of geeks as opposed to, what's it Kevin Durant and Ice Cube. Is this a technology conference or Did you and Bipple work for some Hollywood big time company? >> It's funny you say that, they'll be more tomorrow. So I'll allude to that. But ideally, why not hang out with some cool folks. I mean I live in Oakland. Hip Hop needs to be represented and the Golden State Warriors. >> It's pretty cool. I'm looking forward to the party. I know there will be huge lines. When Katie comes to throw down with a bunch of people. So looking forward to those videos. So we've been looking at Rubrik since, you know, came out of stealth. I got to interview Bipple, you know, really early on, so we've been watching. What you're on like the 4.0 release now right? How long has that taken and you know why don't you bring us up to speed with what's going on with Rubrik. >> Yeah, it's our ninth, our ninth major release over basically eight quarters. And along with that, we've announced we've hit like a 150 million dollar run rate that we've included when we started it was all about VMWare, doing back-ups providing those back-ups a place to land, meaning object store or AWS S3. And now it's, we protect Hyper-V, Acropolis from Nutanix, obviously the VMWare Suite, we can do archive to Azure, we can do, there's like 30 some-odd integration points. With various storage vendors, archive vendors, public cloud, etcetera. And the ulta release which is 4.0, just really extends that because now, not only can we provide backups and recovery and archive, which is kind of our bread and butter. But you can archive that to public cloud and now you can start running those workloads. Right, so what we call a cloud on, I can take either on demand or archive data that's been sent to S3, and I can start building virtual machines, like I said on demand. I can take the AMI, put it in EC2 and start running it right now. And I start taking advantage of the services and it's a backup product. Like, that's what always kind of blows my mind. This isn't, that's not the use case, it's one thing that we unlock from backup to archive data >> One of the challenges I usually see out there, is that people are like, oh Rubrik, you know they do backups for VMWare, how do you, you know, you're very much involved in educating and getting out there and telling people about it, how do you get over the, oh wait you heard what we were doing six months ago or six weeks ago, and now we're doing so much more. So how do you stay up with that? >> It's tough to keep up obviously, because every quarter we basically have either some kind of major or a dot release that comes out. I mean realistically, I set the table a little bit differently, I say, what are you looking to do? What are the outcomes that you're trying to drive? Simplicity's a huge one because everyone's dealing with I have a backup storage vendor and I have a storage vendor, and I have tape vendor, and all this other hodge podge things that they're dealing with. They're looking to save money, but ultimately they're trying to automate, start leveraging the cloud. Start really like, taking the headache out of providing something that's very necessary. And when I start talking about the services they can add, beyond that, because it's not just about taking a backup, leaving it in some rotting archive for 10 years, or whatever, it's really what can I do with the data once I have this duplicated and compressed, kind of pool, that I can start drawing from. And that's where people start to, their mind gets blown a little bit. Now that the individual features and check boxes sets, it is what it is, you know, like if you happen to need Hyper-V or Acropolis or whatever, it's really just where you are on that journey to start taking advantage of this data. And I think that's where people start to get really excited and we start white boarding and nerding out a little bit. >> Well Chris, so don't keep us in suspense, what kinds of things can you do once you have a copy of this data? It's still, it's all live, it's either on solid state or spinning disk or in the cloud somewhere. That's very different than just putting it on tape, so what do I do now, that I have all this data pool? >> So probably the most common use case is, I have VBC and a security group in Amazon. That exists today. I'm archiving to S3 in some way, shape, or form. Either IA or whatever flavor vessel you want. And then you're thinking, well I have these applications, what else can I do with them? What if I put it to a query service or a relational data base service, or what if I sped up 10 different copies because I need to for lode testing or some type of testing. I mean it all falls under the funnel of dev test, but I hate just capping it that way, because I think it's unimaginative. Realistically, we're saying here you have this giant pile of compute, that you're already leveraging the storage part of it, you the object store that is S3. What if you could unlock all the other services with no heavy lift? And the workload is actually built as an AMI. Right, so an ami, it's actually running an EC2, so there's no, you don't necessarily have to extend the Hyper Visor layer or anything like that. And it's essentially S3 questions, from the product perspective. It's you know, what security group, BCP, and shape of the format you want it to be. Like large, small, Xlarge, et cetera. That's it. So think about unlocking cloud potentials for less technical people or people that are dipping their toe in a public cloud. It really unlocks that ability and we control the data plane across it. >> Just one thing on that, because it's interesting, dev tests a lot of times, used to get shoved to the back. And it was like, oh you can run on that old gear, you know you don't have any money for it. We've actually found that it can increase, kind of the companies agility and development is a big part of creating big cool things out of a company, so you don't under sell what improving dev tests can do. So did you have some customer stories or great things that customers have done with what this capability has. >> Yeah, but to be fair, at first when I saw that we were going to start, basically taking VMWare backups and pushing that in archive and then turning those into EC2 instances of any shape or quantity. I was like, that's kind of crazy, who has really wanted that Then I started talking to customers and it was a huge request. And a lot of times, my architectural background would think, lift and shift, oh no, don't necessarily do that. I'm not a huge fan of that process. But while that is certainly something you can do, what they're really looking to do is, well, I have this binary package or application suite that's running on Elk Stack or some Linux distro, or whatever, and I can't do anything with that because it's in production and it's making me money, but I'd really like to see what could be done with that? Or potentially can I just eliminate it completely and turn it into a service. And so I've got some customers that completely what they're doing, they're archiving already and what they have the product doing is every time a new snapshot is taken and is sent to the cloud, it builds automatically that EC2 instance, and it starts running it. So they have a collection of various state points that they can start playing with. The actual backup is immutable, but then they're saying, alright, what if exactly what I kind of alluded to a little, what if I start using a native service in the cloud. Or potentially just discard that workload completely. And start turning it into a service, or refactor it, re platform it et cetera. And they're not having to provision, usually you have to buy infrastructure to do that. Like you're talking about the waterfall of Chinese stuff, that turns into dev stuff three years later. They don't have to do that, they can literally start taking advantage of this cloud resource. Run it for an hour or so, because devs are great at CDIC pipelines, let's just automate the whole stack, let's answer our question by running queries through jenkins or something like that. And then throw it away and it cost a couple of bucks. I think that's pretty huge. >> Well Chris, can you also use this capability for DR, for disaster recovery? Can you re hydrate your AMI's up there if everything goes South in your data center? >> Absolutely. I mean it's a journey and this is for dot zero. So I'm not going to wave my hands and say that it's an amazing DR solution. But the third kind of use case that we highlight with our product is that absolutely. You can take the work loads either as a planned event, and say I'm actually putting it here and this is a permanent thing. Or an unplanned event, which is what we all are trying to avoid. Where you're running the work loads in the cloud, for some deterministic period of time, and either the application layer or the file system layer, or even, like a data base layer, you're then protecting it, using our cloud cluster technology, which is Rubrik running in the cloud. Right there, it has access to S3 and EC2, you know, adjacently, there is not net fee and then you start protecting that and sending the data the other way. Because Rubriks software can talk to any other Rubrik's software. We don't care what format or package it's in. In the future we'd like to add more to that. I don't want to over sell it, but certainly that's the journey. >> Chris tell us about how your customers are feeling about the cloud in general. You know you've lived with the VM community for a lot of years, like many of us, and that journey to cloud and you know, what is Hybrid and multi-cloud mean to them, and you know, what you've been seeing at Rubrik over the last year. >> Yeah it's ahh, everybody has a different definition between hybrid, public, private-- >> Stu: Every customer I ever talked to will have a different answer to that. >> I just say multi cloud, because it feels the most safe And the technically correct version of that definition. It's certainly something that, everyone's looking to do. I think kind of the I want to build a private cloud phase of the journey is somewhat expired in some cases. >> Stu: Did you see Pat's keynote this morning? >> Yeah, the I want to build a private cloud using open stack and you know, build all my widgets. I feel that era of marketing or whatnot, that was kind of like 2008 or 2010. So that kind of era of marketing message has died a little bit. It's really just more I have on prem stuff, I'm trying to modernize it, using hyper-converge, or using software to find X, you know, networking et cetera But ultimately I have to start leveraging the places where my paths, my iya's and my sas are going to start running. How do I then cobble all that together. I mean at the sea level, I need visibility, I need control, I need to make executable decisions. That are financially impactful. And so having something they can look across to those different ecosystems, and give you actionable data, like here's where it's running, here's where it could run, you know, it's all still just a business decision, based on SLA. It's powerful. But then as you go kind of down message for maybe a director or someone's who's managing IT, that's really, someone's breathing down their neck, saying, we've got to have a strategy. But they're technically savvy, they don't want to just put stuff in the cloud and get that huge bill. Then they have to like explain that as well. So it kind of sits in a nice place where we can protect the modern apps, or kind of, I guess you can call them, modern slash legacy in the data center. But also start providing protection at a landing pad for the cloud native to use as an over watch term The stuff that's built for cloud that runs there, that's distributed and very sensitive to the fact that it charges per iota of use at the same time. >> Well Chris, originally Rubrik was deploying to customers as an appliance, right? So can you talk a little bit about that, right, you have many different options now, the customer, right? You can get open source, you can get commercial software, or you can get appliances, you can get SAS, and now it sounds like you're, there's also a piece that can run in the cloud, right? That it's not just a box that sits in a did center somewhere So can you talk about, again, what do customers want? What's the advantage of some of those different deployment mechanisms, what do you see? >> I'm not saying this as a stalling tactic, but I love that question. Because yes, when we started it made sense, build a turnkey appliance, make sure that it's simple. Like in deployment, we used to say it can deploy in an hour and that includes the time to take it out of the box and that only goes so far because that's one use case. So certainly, for the first year or so, the product that was where we were driving it, as a scale out node based solution then we added Rubrik edge as a virtual appliance. And really it was meant to, I have a data center and I'm covering those remote offices, type use cases. And we required that folks kind of tether the two, because it's a single node that's really just a suggesting data and bringing it back using policy. Then we introduced cloud cluster in 3.2 which is a couple of releases ago. And that allows you to literally build a four plus node cluster as your AWS, basically you give us your account info and we share the EMI with you or the VM in case of Azure and then you can just build it, right? And that's totally independent, like you can just be a customer. We have a couple of customers that are public, that's all they do, they deploy cloud cluster they backup things in that environment. And then they replicate or archive to various clouds or various regions within clouds. And there's no requirement to buy the appliance because that would be kind of no bueno to do that. >> Sure. >> So right, there's various packages or we have the idea now where you can bring your own hardware to the table. And we'll sell you the software, so like Lenovo and Cisco and things like that. It can be your choice based on the relationships you have. >> Wow Chris your teams are gone a lot, not just your personal team but the Rubrik team I walked by the booth and wait, I saw five more people that I know from various companies. Talk about the growth of like, you know Rubrik. You joined a year ago and it felt like a small company then. Now you guys are there, I get the report from this financial analyst firms and like, have you seen the latest unicorn, Rubrik and I'm like, Rubrik, I know those guys. And gals. So yeah absolutely, talk about the growth of the company. What's the company hiring for? Tell us a little bit about the culture inside. >> Sure, I mean, it's actually been a little over two years now that I've been there, it's kind of flying. I was in the first 50 hires for the company. So at the time I felt like the FNG, but I guess now, I'm kind like the old, old man. I think we're approaching or have crossed the 500 employee threshold and we're talking eight quarters essentially. A lot of investment, across the world, right, so we decided very early on to invest in Europe as a market. We had offices in Utruck in the Netherlands. And in London, the UK, we've got a bunch of engineering folks in India. So we've got two different engineering teams. As well as, we have an excellent, center of excellence, I think in Kansas City. So there's a whole bunch of different roots that we're planting as a company. As well as a global kind of effort to make sales, support, product, engineering, marketing obviously, something that scales everywhere. It's not like all the engineers are in Palo Alto and Silicone Valley and everyone else is just in sales. But we're kind of driving across everywhere. My team went from one to six. Over the last eight or nine months. So everything is growing. Which I guess is good. >> As part of that you also moved to Silicone Valley and so how does it compare to the TV show. >> Chris: It's in Oakland. >> Well it's close enough to Silicone Valley. >> It's Silicone Valley adjacent. I will say I used to visit all the time, you know. For various events and things like that. Or for VM World or whatnot. I always got the impression that I liked being there for about a week and then I wanted to leave before I really started drinking the kool aid a little heavily so it's nice being just slightly on the east bay area. At the same time, I go to events and things now. More as a local and it's kind of awesome to hear oh I invented whatever technology, I invented bootstrap or MPM or something like that. And they're just available to chat with. I tried it at that the, the sunscreen song, where he says, you know, move to california, but leave before you turn soft. So at some point I might have to go back to Texas or something to just to keep the scaley rigidity to my persona intact. >> Yeah, so you missed the barbecue? >> Well I don't know if you saw Franklin's barbecue actually burned down during the hurricane, so. >> No >> Yeah, if you're a, a huge barbecue fan in Austin, weep a tear, it might be a bad mojo for a little bit. >> Wow. Alright, we were alluding at the very beginning of the interview, you've got some VIP guests, we don't talk too much about, like, oh we're doing this tomorrow and everything, but you got some cool activities, the all stars, you know some of the things. Give us a little viewpoint, what's the goal coming into VM World this year and what are some of the cool things that you're team and the extended team are doing. >> Yeah, so kind of more on the nerdy fun side, we've actually built up, one of my team, Rebecca Fitzhughes build out this V all stars card deck so we picked a bunch of infuencers, and people that, you know friends and family kind of thing built them some trading cards and based on what you turn in you can win prizes and things like that. It was just a lot of other vendors have done things that I really respect. Like Solid Fire has the socks and the cards against humanity as an example. I wanted to do something similar and Rebecca had a great idea. She executed on that. Beyond that though, we obviously have Ice Cube coming in. He's going to be partying at the Marquis on Tuesday evening so he'll be, he'll be hanging around, you know the king of hip hop there. And on a more like fun, charitable note, we actually have Kevin Durant coming in tomorrow. We are shooting hoops for his charity fund. So everybody that sinks a goal, or ahh, I'm obviously not a basket ball person, but whoever sinks the ball into the hoop gets two dollars donated to his charity fund and you build it to win a jersey and things like that. So kind of spreading it across sports, music, and various digital transformation type things. To make sure that everyone who comes in, has a good time. VMWare's our roots, right? 1.0, the product was focused on that environment. It's been my roots for a long time. And we want to pay that back to the community. You can't forget where you came from, right? >> Alright, Chris Wahl, great to catch up with you. Thanks for joining us sporting your Alta t-shirt your Rubrik... >> I'm very branded. >> John Troyer and I will be back with lots more coverage here at VM World 2017, you're watching theCUBE.

>> Announcer: Live from the Washington D.C. It's the CUBE covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Brought to you be Amazon Web Services and it's partner Ecosystem. >> Welcome back here on the CUBE as we continue our coverage of the AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Along with John Furrier, I'm John Walls we're in the Walter E. Washington Convention Center. For the sixth show, of almost 10,000 attending. somewhere in that ball park. It's come along way in a very short period of time. AWS has a lot to feel good about. >> It's a good reinvent for Public Sector. It's huge. >> And not just to think about government. We think about education as well. We had a couple of segments about that. We are going to talk about government with our next guest. If we get a name wrong on this segment shame on us, John Stephenson with John Walls and John Furrier. John's a senior manage at Public Policy at AWS. John nice to have you with us we appreciate that. >> Thank you for having me. >> Thank you for your time. So your focus primarily state and local governments. What exactly as the conduit do you want to bring to their table from of AWS? >> Well I'm Senior Manager, of Public Policy for Amazon Web Services in the Eastern United States. I handle state and local government relations in the Eastern U.S. from Texas to Main and then South Florida. I help our business and also our partners in government to understand how public policy can enable cloud and modern technologies. It's a very exciting place to be because there's a lot going on in state and local government when it comes to IT modernization and cloud right now. >> I think about government too. There's that big umbrella we can put on (mumbles). It's public service. But federal government has a place and state and local. I think much more responsive, much more grass roots. So those applications are much more immediate. I would think. Does that come into play with you? That you need to be a little more nimble. Or you're helping your clients to be a litter more nimble or more agile? >> Absolutely, if you look at what state and local governments are doing. Essential services from delivering health care to taking out the trash, providing public safety, providing education it's handled at the state and local government. If you look at the number of times you touch government. It is state and local. Think about renewing a driver license. Think about paying a parking ticket. Think about getting a zoning permit for remodeling of your house. You're dealing with state and local government. The demands on state and local government are also higher. They're holding more data on citizens than the Federal government. They are undergoing massive population changes. It's either positive or negative. State and local governments which have budget constraints. Need to be more nimble, more innovative. They are natural early adopters and first movers of technology. If you look at some of the more exciting things about technology that are happening in the government space. I think it's happening at state and local government in the U.S. >> Smart cities by the way is the hottest trend. Intel one of the key sponsors of this show. We had two folks on here. AI is going to be a real nice gateway for some of these innovations on their side. They have 5G opportunities. They have transformation. Lot of technology going on under the covers, under the hood if you will. One of them is smart cities and that is something that is just mind blowing. Just from a technology stand point but even more mind blowing from a policy perspective. Who sets the rules? What side does the car run on? What digital services are the citizens going to get? Who pays for them? What does the government do? What does the private sector do? These are issues that need to be grappled with. Your thoughts on how you guys look at that? And how are your constituents engaging with that and thinking about it? >> I'm glad you mentioned smart cities because there's a lot of activity going on in that space. If you look at the internet of things technologies alone. One of the enablers of smart cities. As many as 53% of state and local government according to NASCIO are looking at these technologies or deploying them. It's great to see that because that will enable a lot of potential from smarter government services, better government services, improving service delivery and improving constituent fulfillment. Which resonates with us, as part of Amazon. We're all about our customer fulfillment and delighting our customer. >> Lower prices and ship things faster that's Bezos' ethos. That's Amazon's culture. >> Exactly. >> And you could deliver services any digital service. >> Everything we do starts with the customer and we work backwards. In the conversations I've had with policy makers in the state and local governments. They see smart cities as a way to do that. Everything from improving transportation in places like Columbus, Ohio. To improving connectivity and engagement with the internet in places Kansas City, Missouri. And new ways of delivering services in places like New York and Los Angeles. It's very exciting stuff. Policy makers are coming to us and others in the industry. What are the policies? What are the best practices that can enable these technologies? We've been working with them. Providing information on what we're seeing around the world. How open data can be made (mumbles). How security and compliance can be built into applications. And we're happy to provide that because we know from working in the cloud ourselves. The potential that's there for state and local government. >> You want to foster innovation but at the same time you don't want to create this restrictive environment. Or have legacy be the baggage that holds things back. In fact you look at some of the best smart cities implementation. It's Singapore. It's Dubai. It's areas all over the world. In some cases it didn't have real strong infrastructure. So now come back to your role. As you look at the U.S. which has great infrastructure. Except for broadband connectivity, we'd be faster. They have some pre-existing conditions. They're under pressure. The cloud is a prefect vehicle for them. Because they can come in with their existing stuff. Get apps and services online quicker. How are you dealing with the challenge of? OK, calm down we're not going to take over the world. No, skynet's not coming. You know terminator reference. That's a concern, privacy. Lot of in policy issues, to be dealt with. How do you handle those? >> I think with any policy issue. I've been in public policy for a while now. It really starts with education. Understanding in really simple layman's terms. What the cloud is. And what it is not. It is a very transformative technology. It is not an end all one size fits all technology. What we've done is help educate policy makers by understanding the potential of cloud. What it can do in terms of cost savings, improved security, and being more agile. And to tell that story, we don't use PowerPoints at Amazon. We're not coming in and giving PowerPoint presentations. >> Good ole flesh pounding, hand shakes, and hit the streets. >> We'll more importantly it's sharing the customer's stories We're talking with them about what's happening at the New York City Department of Transportation. We're talking with them about what's happening at the city of Los Angeles with their emergency operation center. About how cities are using cloud technologies to deliver far superior products and services faster. >> So what is New York doing and what is L.A. doing specifically? >> New York city they have their iRide application to help citizens get from one point to the other much more quickly and safely as part of their Vision Zero campaign. Anyone who's been in New York, and I've been in New York quite a few times. Knows that traffic and be a real pain getting from part of Manhattan to the other. So what iRide does, is it helps people navigate Manhattan and the other boroughs much more quickly and efficiently using all the modes of transportation available to them. The city of New York was able to deploy that much more quickly, to many more people. They're able to update it, keep it secure thanks to cloud technology offered by AWS. The city of Los Angeles. They face cyber attacks everyday. Then there are the huge cost of maintaining that security. But with cloud they're able to build out event management systems and integrate those with their Homeland Security technologies and practices. And to be able to do it for a fraction of the cost using traditional systems, traditional IT, and traditional practices. It's very exciting. Suddenly local government can move at the speed and agility of a startup. Which has made Amazon very innovative. Last year we launched over a thousand new services and features. Local governments are seeing that. They want to be more like us and others in the industry. That are using cloud to deliver new products and services. And be better at their job. >> And the education, I say it probably patience in the educational role. You think about just the civil liberties of the citizens. That's really job one. Because I think most people get spooked. Whoa all this surveillance. The thing about it, just watching Patriots Day with my family. You know the Boston bombing, Boston strong with Mark Wahlberg. These things actually happen all the time. And we take for granted the some of the things we have in the surveillance community for the kinds of data that's out there. The same time that's the balance. Can you bring me value with my liberties. It's the same compliance scheme. Same governance game. This is the public sector. >> Well, that's where I think cloud has a great story to tell With cloud you get the benefits of economies of scale. Of Amazon with security and also with privacy. We have multiple compliance frameworks. Everything from HIPPA, FERPA, CJIS, Criminal Justice Information Systems. We are zealous guardians of security and our customer's privacy. We don't look at data. We don't share data about with out our customer's permission. We have very strong safeguards. That's why if you look a the customer base of Amazon from banks to government agencies, health care companies. Even companies like Netflix and you would think they're a competitor of ours. They're running their IT in AWS. They trust us even though with Amazon video and Amazon prime. You would think they're a competitor. But they've put that level of trust in us and our systems and our practices that they can put their data there. And we're hearing it from customer after customer. That they feel more safer and more secure with their data in the cloud offered by AWS. And we've shared that with government officials. And they take great comfort in those statements. >> You hit on something earlier. When you said that state governments and local governments have more data at their disposal than the federal government has about their consumers. Because of that, how much higher do find their concerns to be, in terms of cyber security, in terms of hack proof secured networks and systems as opposed to what might happen at the federal level. Cause we think federal. We think big. About what happened with the U.S. government's payment systems last year OPM. State and local they've got a lot more data they're protecting >> I've had a great opportunity in my current job to talk with a lot of IT officials and policy makers in the state. And, often times a meeting will start. And they'll say I've read about this. I've heard about this. And we're often able to say that's not an issue with the cloud offered the AWS. Or that's something we've already addressed through our security and compliance frame works. For example, I was in one meeting and a state policy maker asked me, well what do you do about HIPPA compliance. We have HIPPA compliance in AWS. And then he tried to ask questions, well what about this, what about that. And each time our team was able to tell the state policy maker. We meet that. We exceed that. We actually help write the standard for that compliance frame work. What we've been able to show that policy maker and others. The cloud just offers a far superior security posture than what they can do on their own. It's taken some time because the cloud is new. And as we like to say, it's still day one in this field. But we are very confident as word gets out. More and more people will be trusting particularly in state government their data to the cloud. Because of the superiority it offers on so many different levels. >> Well certainly the words getting out. This event here is just as big as it's ever been (mumbles). Use to be a little summit, now it's grown. There's a lot of interest. >> It's very exciting for me. I've been to reinvent now twice. And this is just so delightful to see so many people from government from the U.S. from internationally here to learn about the cloud share their stories. It's really inspirational to see what's possible. >> That's a testament to Teresa Carlson. Who was just years ago knocking on doors. That was before cloud was cloud. Now it's just come a long way. Congratulations to the whole team. >> Thank you. It's really to delightful to see. And I can't wait to see what's in store for next year and after that. >> We still got a little bit here to go John Don't kick us out. John Stephenson, Public Policy at AWS. Thanks for being with us we appreciate that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. With John Furrier, I'm John Walls and we'll be back with more here on the CUBE from Washington D.C. right after this. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Washington, DC, it's theCube, covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017, brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its partner ecosystem. >> Welcome inside the convention center here in Washington, DC. You're looking at many of the attendees of the AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. We're coming to you live from our nation's capital. Several thousand people on hand here for this three-day event, we're here for two days. John Walls, along with John Furrier. John, good to see you again, sir. >> Sir, thank you. >> We're joined by Jay Littlepage, who is the VP of Infrastructure and Operations at Digital Globe, and Jay, thank you for being with us at theCube. >> My pleasure. >> John W: Good to have you. First off, your company, high-resolution, earth imagery satellite stuff. Out-of-this world business. >> Yep. >> Right, tell our viewers a little bit about what you do, I mean, the magnitude of, obviously, the environmental implications of that or defense, safety security, all those realms. >> Okay, well, stop me when I've said too much because I get pretty excited about this. We work for a very cool company. We've been taking earth imagery since 1999, when our first satellite went up in the sky. And, as we've increased our capabilities with our constellation, our latest satellite went up last November. We're flying, basically, a giant camera that we can fly like a drone. So, and when I say giant camera, it's about the size of a school bus, and the lens is about the size of the front of the school bus, and we can take imagery from 700 miles up in space and resolve a pixel about the size of a laptop. So, that gives us an incredible amount of capability, and the flying like a drone, besides just being really cool and geeky, we can sling the lens from basically Kansas City to here in Washington in 15 seconds and take a shot. And so, when world events happen, when an earthquake happens, you know, they're generally not scheduled events, we don't have to have the satellite right above the point where there's something going on on the ground, we can take a shot from an angle of 1,000 miles away, and with compute power and good algorithms, we can basically resolve the picture of the earth, and it looks like we're right overhead, and we're getting imagery out immediately to first responders, to governmental agencies so they can respond very quickly to a disaster happening to save lives. >> So, obviously, the ramifications are endless, almost, right? >> Yes. >> All that data, I mean, you can't even imagine the amount, talk about storage. So, that's certainly a complexity, and then, they are making it useful too all these different sectors. Without getting too simple, how do you manage that? >> Well, you know, it's a big trade-off because, ideally, if storage was free, all of our imagery in its highest consumable form would be available all the time to everybody. Each high-resolution image might be 35 gig by itself. So, you think of that long of flying a constellation, we've got 100 petabytes of imagery. That's too much, it's too expensive to have online all of the time. And so, we have to balance what's going to be relevant and useful to people versus cost. You know, a lot of the imagery goes through cycle where it's interesting until it's not, and it starts to age off. The thing about the planet, though, is we never know what's going to happen, and when something that aged off is going to be relevant again. And so, the balance for my team is really making sure we're hitting the sweet spot on there. The imagery that is relevant is readily accessible, and the imagery that's not is, in its cheapest form, fact or possible, which for us, is compressed, and it's in some sort of archival storage, which for us, now that we've used the Snowmobile, is Glacier. >> Jay, I want to ask to give your thoughts. I want you to talk about DigitalGlobe, before that, some context. This weekend, I was hanging out with my friends in Santa Cruz and kids were surfing. He's a big drone guy, he used to work for GoPro, and she used to buy the drones and, hey, how's it going with the drones. It got kind of boring, here's a great photo I created, but after a while, it just became like Google Earth, and it got boring. Kind of pointed out that he wanted more, and we got virtual reality, augmented reality, experience is coming to users. That puts imagery, place imagery, the globe, pictures, places and things is what you guys do. So, that's not going away any time soon. So, talk about your business, what you guys do, some of the things that you do, your business model, how that's changing, and how Amazon, here in the public sector, is changing that. >> Well, that's a fantastic questions, and our business is changing pretty rapidly. We have all that imagery, and it's beautiful imagery, but increasingly, there's so much of it, and so many of the use cases aren't about human eyeballs staring at pixels. They're about algorithms extracting information from the pixels. And, increasingly, from either the breadth of pixels, instead of just looking at a small area, you can look around it and see what's happening around it and use that as signal information, or you can go deep into an archive and see the same location on the planet over and over over years and see the changes that had happened in terms of time frame. So, increasingly, our market is about extracting information and extracting insights from the imagery more so than it is the imagery itself. And so that's driving an analytics business for us, and it's also driving a services business for us, which is particularly important in the public sector to actually use that for different purposes. >> You can imagine the creativity involved and developers out there watching or even thinking about using satellite imagery in conflux with other data. Remember, they're in the Web 2.0 craze earlier in the last decade. You saw mashups of API with Google Max. Oh yeah, pull a little pin, and then the mobile came. But now, you're seeing mashups go on with other data. And I've heard stats at Uber, for instance, remaps New York City every five days with all that GPS data of the cars, which are basically sensors. So, you can almost imagine the alchemy, the convergence of data. This is exciting for you, I can imagine. Won't you share with us, anecdotally or statistically what you're seeing, how this is playing out? >> Well, yes, some of our biggest commercial customers of our products now are location-based services. So, Uber's using our imagery because the size of the aperture of our lens means we have great resolution. And so, they've been consuming that and consuming our machine learning algorithms to basically understand where traffic is and where people are so that they can refine, on an ongoing basis, where the best pick-up and drop-off locations are. That really drives their business. Facebook's using the imagery to basically help build out the Internet. You know, they want to move into places on the planet where Internet doesn't exist. Well, in order to really understand that, they need to understand where to build, how to build, how many people are there, and you can actually extract all that from imagery by going in in detail and mapping roofs' shapes and roofs' sizes, and, from there, extracting pretty accurate estimates of how many people live in a particular area, and that's driving their project, which is ultimately going to drive access for... >> Intelligence in software, we look at imagery. I mean, we here at Amazon, recognition's their big product for facial recognition, among other pictures. But this is what's getting at, this notion of actually extracting that data. >> Well, you think about it. You know, once the data is available, once our imagery is available, then the sky's the limit. You know, we have a certain set of algorithms that we apply to help different industries, you know, to look at rooftops, to look at water extractions. After a hurricane, we can actually see how the coverage has changed. But, you look at a Facebook, and they're applying their own algorithms. We don't force our algorithms to be used. We provide the information, we try to provide the data. Companies can bring their own algorithms, and then, it's all about what can you learn, and then, what can you do about it, and it's amazing. >> So, here's the question. With the whole polyglot conversation, multiple languages that people speak that's translated into the tech industry, and interdisciplinary forces are in play: Data science, coding, cognitive, machine learning. So, the question is, for you, is that, okay, as this stuff comes together, do you speak DevOps? It's kind of a word, and we hear people say, is that in Russian or is that like English? DevOps is a cloud language mindset. And so, that brings up the question of, are you guys friendly to developers, and because people want to have microservices, I'm from a developer, I'm like, hey, I want those maps. How do I get them, can I buy it as a service, are they loaded on Amazon, how to I gauge with DataGlobe, as a developer or a company? >> Well, you think about what you just said and the customers I just talked about. They're not geospatial customers. You know, they're not staffed with people that are PhDs in extracting information. They're developers that are working for high-tech companies that have a problem that want to solve. >> There are already mobile apps or doing some cool database working in here. >> So, we're providing the raw imagery and the algorithms to very tried and true systems where people can plug into work benches and build artificial intelligence without necessarily being experts in that. And, as a case in point, my team is an IT team. You know, we've got a part of the organization that is all staffed with PhDs. They're the ones that are driving our global... >> John W: PhD is a service. (laughter) >> Well, kind of. I mean, if you think about it, they're driving the leading edge, for these solutions to our customers. But, I've got an IT team, and I've got this problem with all this data that we talked about earlier. Well, how am I actually going to manage that? I'm going to be pulling in all sorts of different sources of data, and I'm going to be applying machine learning using IT guys that aren't PhDs to actually do that, and I'm not going to send them to graduate school. They're going to be using standard APIs, and they're going to be applying fairly generic algorithms, and... >> So, is that your model, is it just API, is there other... >> I think the real key is the API makes it accessible, but a machine learning algorithm is only as good as its training. So, the more it's used, the more it refines itself, the better our algorithm gets. And so, that is going to be the type of thing that the IT developer, the infrastructure engineer of the future becomes, and I've already, basically, in the last couple of years, as we started this journey at AWS, 20% of my staff now, same size staff, but they're software developers now. >> So, I'll take this to the government side. We talked a lot about commercial use. But at the government side, I'm thinking about FEMA, disaster response, maybe a core of engineers, you know, bridge construction, road construction, coastline management. Are all those kind of applications that we see on the dot gov side? >> There are all things that you see that can be done on the dot gov side, but we're doing them all in the commercial environment. The USC's region for AWS, and I think that's actually a really important distinction, and it's something that I think more and more of the government agencies are starting to see. We do a lot of work for one particular government agency and have for years. But 99 point something percent of our imagery is commercial unclassified, and it's available for the purposes that our customers use it for, but they're also available for all those other customers I've talked about. And more and more of what we do, we are doing on the completely open but secure commercial environment because it's ubiquitous for our customers. Not all of our customers do that type of work. They don't need to comply with those rigid standards. It's generally where all AWS products that are released are released to, with the other environments lagging, and they probably don't want me saying that on TV, but I just did. And it's cheaper, you know, we're a commercial company that does public sector work. We have to make a profit, and the best way to do that is to put your environment in a place where if you're going to repeat an operation, like pulling an image of Glacier and build it into something that is consumable by either a human or an algorithm and put it back. If you're going to do something like that a million times, you want to do it really inexpensively. And so, that's where... (crosstalking) >> Lower prices, make things fast, that's Jeff Hayes' ethos, shipping products, that these books in the old days. Now, they're shipping code and making lower-latency systems. So, you guys are a big customer. What are the big implementation features that you have with AWS, and then, the second part of the question is, are you worried about locking. At some point, you're so big, the hours are going to be so massive, you're going to be paying so much cash, should you build your own, that's the big debate. Do you go private cloud, do you stay in the public? Thoughts on those two options? >> Well, we have both. Right now, we're running a 15-year-old system, which is where we create the imagery that comes off the satellites, and it goes into a tape archive. Last year, Reinvent... >> John F: Tape's supposed to be dead! >> Tape will die someday! It's going to die really soon, but, at the Reinvent Conference last year, AWS rolled out a semi truck. Well, the real semi truck was in our parking lot getting loaded with all those tapes, and it's sad... >> John F: Did you actually use the semi? >> We were the first customer ever, I believe, of the Snowmobile. And so, it takes a lot of time and effort to move 12,000 LTO 5 tapes loaded onto a semi and send it off. You know, that represents every image ever taken by DG in the history of our company, and it's now in AWS. So, to your second part of your question, we're pretty committed now. >> John F: Are you okay with that? >> Well, we're okay with that for a couple of reasons. One is, I'm not constraining the business. AWS is cheaper. It will be even cheaper for us as we learn how to pull all the levers and turn all the dials in this environment. But, you know, you think about that, we ran a particular job last year for a customer that consumes 750,000 compute hours in 22 days. We couldn't have done that in our data center. We would have said no. And so, I would... >> I know, I can't do, you can't do it. >> We can't do it! Or, we can do it, come back, the answer will be here in six months. So, time is of the essence in situations like that, so we're comfortable with it for our business. We're also comfortable with it because, increasingly, that's where our customers already are. We are creating something in our current environment and shipping it to Amazon anyway. >> We're going to start a movie about you, with Jim Carrey, Yes Man. (laughter) You're going to say yes to everything now with Amazon. Okay, but this is a good point. Joking aside, this is interesting because we have this debate all the time, when is the cloud prohibitive. In this case, your business model, based on that fact that variables spend that you turn up your Compute is based upon cadence of the business. >> That's exactly right. You know, the thing that's really changed for the business with this model is historically, IT has been a call center, and moving into Amazon, I manage our storage, and I pay for our storage because it's a shared asset. It's something that is for the common good. The business units and different product managers in our business now have the dial for what they spend on the Compute and everything else. So, if they want to go to market really rapidly, they can. If they want to spin it up rapidly, they can. If they want to turn it down, they can. And it's not a fixed investment. So, it allows the business philosophy that we've never had before. >> Jay, I know we're getting tight on time, but I do want to ask you one question, and I did not know that you were the first Snowmobile customers, so, that's good trivia to have on theCube and great to have you. So, while we got you here, being the first customer of AWS Snowmobile when they rolled out at Amazon Reinvent, we covered on SiliconAngle. Why did you jump on that and how was your experience been, share some color onto that whole process. >> Okay, it's been an iterative learning process for both us and for Amazon. We were sitting on all this imagery. We knew we wanted to get in AWS. We started using the Snowballs almost a year and a half ago. But moving 100 petabytes, 80 terabytes at a time, it's like using a spoon to move a haystack. So, when Amazon approached us, knowing the challenge we had about moving it all at once, I initially thought they were kidding, and I realized it was Amazon, they don't kid about things like this, and so we jumped on pretty early and worked with them on this. >> John F: So, you've got blown away like, what? >> Just like. >> What's the catch? >> Really, a truck, really? Yeah, but really. So, it's as secure as it could possibly be. We're taking out the Internet and all the different variables in that, including a lot of cost in bandwidth and strengths, and basically parking and next to our data, and, you know, it's basically a big NFS file system, and we loaded data onto it, the constraint for us being, basically that tape library with 10,000 miles of movement on the tape pads. We had to balance between loading the Snowmobile and basically responding to our regular customers. You know, we pulled 4 million images a year off that tape library. And so, loading every single image we've ever created onto the Snowmobile at the same time was a technical challenge on our side more so than Amazon's side. So, we had to find that sweet spot and then just let it run. >> John F: Now, it's operational. >> So, the Snowmobile is gone. AWS has got it. They're adjusting it right now into the West Region, and we're looking forward to being able to just go wild with that data. >> We got Snowmobiles, we got semis, we have satellites, we have it all, right? >> We have it all, yeah. >> It's massive, obviously, but impressed with what you're doing with this. So, congratulations on that front, and thank you again for being with us. >> My pleasure, thanks for having me. >> You bet, we continue our coverage here from Washington, DC, live on theCube. SiliconAngle TV continues right after this. (theCube jingle)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's the Cube covering NAB 2017. Brought to you by HGST. >> Hey, welcome back to the Cube. We are live at the NAB 2017 conference, the National Association of Broadcasters. Great event, over a hundred thousand people. Wow, amazing. I'm Lisa Martin very excited to introduce you to you to our next guest, Dave Clack, the CEO of Square Box Systems. Hi, Dave, welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you. >> Great to have you here. Now, you are a veteran of NAB. >> Yeah, afraid so. >> Yeah, this year's event really this over arching theme of the MET effect. Convergence of media, entertainment technology that used to be distinct. With that theme and all the buzz that's going on here, what are some of your observations on day, this isn't day one for you, but day one for most of us? >> Well, I think the show is far busier than I've seen it in recent years so we've been overwhelmed on our booth this morning. I think with folks being able to manage extremely complex storage landscapes has been a real theme for us in the discussion so far this morning. In addition, folks are so much moving towards the cloud that people have been talking about it for years, but suddenly it seems there's been a step change. People want to do it right now and so we're really noticing that in the discussion so far at least this morning, yeah. >> Do you think that's because cloud technology has matured so much as have cloud users? >> Yeah, I think exactly. I think exactly both. So, the technology is starting to mature and the band widths is really getting there so folks can use this stuff more effectively. People are getting more used to it in their day to day lives. So, you know, everyone's phone backs up to the cloud and everyone just gets used to it just being always on and always working. And so I think a lot of the confidence that people need to have when you're shooting content that's valuable and you need to have deadlines you're going to meet, then people are getting used to the fact that the cloud can be a reliable, even more reliable than a lot of the traditional storage and production approaches. >> And one of the themes along those lines that we've heard today on the program is speed and agility are absolutely key. We're hearing that studio will shoot something, a particular scene and then think you know what that would have been great in virtual reality and do the entire thing again and then that compounds costs and storage challenges, but needing things really quickly. Another thing that we're hearing is well all of us are content creators, right. We all have tablets and mobile devices. >> Yeah. >> We're not only consuming it in these ways we're creating it in these ways. And so it really becomes a challenge for whether it's broadcasters or film studios or even on the sports and entertainment side, of containing and kind of corralling this. Tell us a little bit about Square Box Systems. Who are what are you delivering by way of media asset management and who are some of your key constituents, key sectors that you work with? >> Yeah, so our CatDV is all about helping people to find and reuse their content, saving time, saving money, saving stress. Our whole pile of kind of workflow orchestration workflow automation and so being able to find and reuse is clearly really important when content is exploding in the way it has. And the ways that people consume content is exploding and so almost everybody has the potential need for a system like CatDV with this explosion of content. If you can't find your content you just don't have it. It's just taking up space and money on some storage somewhere. And so the main sectors in which we work are I guess we started our focus on broadcast production post, but now everybody have media. And so, we have a pile of customers, basketball, football, baseball, soccer in the sports market. Education, many universities use CatDV. Non-profits lots of houses of worship use CatDV. Lots of corporates use CatDV, training videos, outreach marketing, social media, you know a lot of agencies, advertising use CatDV. So, there's a few really interesting kind of use cases, things like Jay Piell, the history of space science in CatDV. You want to find out about the Mars rover or about all the space probe stuff look in CatDV. So, sports is a really interesting one. We have a load of ten NFL teams and they have some really interesting workflows around asset management. So, I was chatting with some folks from the Kansas City Chiefs a few weeks ago and what their workflow's done has done is really turned on their head the way that they make programming and content. And so, if you imagine they go to an away game then what they'll do is they'll shoot their content and on the plane on the way home, they'll load that content. They'll plug the camera card into laptops and they'll load that content, not just for tonight's show which is clearly important 'cause tonight's coming soon, but to become part of the history of that sports team. Could it become part of the historic record? >> Of course. >> And so then, let's imagine in a years' time we've got an athlete that's retiring or that's got an award or something, they can go into our system and they can say well CatDV, find me the five star clips for this athlete in this season wearing this number. CatDV will come back with a long list of content, be able to preview it whether it's on active storage, on cloud storage or wherever it is in this kind of complex landscape and then CatDV will be able to preview that media, put it into a rough cut and then within a few minutes you've got a rough cut for a really quality piece of programming that can then be made very cost effectively. So, for them it's really turned on their head the kind of psychology of program making, the psychology of logging. It really has become such a valuable thing that it's just part of their DNA then when they're making their content for their fans. >> Another thing that speaking of fans, that really interested me and piqued my interest when I was reading that Kansas City Chiefs' case study on your website is, what they're doing working with Square Box to really be diversifying and improve their fan experience. Because from a fan's perspective they're able to slice and dice different parts of the game and deliver it in multiple platforms. Tell us a little bit more about how you help sports teams for example really diversify engaging with their fans which presumably to them is going to drive up revenue. >> Right, exactly. And I think that kind of talks to how many end points there are where people can consume this content. That clearly folks I think I heard that there are, it's getting on so that there were more mobile phones than there are Tvs in the U.S. now. So, I always consume my content on mobile devices now. We have a TV, we watch films on it. >> Right. >> But that's about it and so I think that being able to have content and then repurpose it extremely quickly for different workflows, okay being able to broadcast to the satellite channel for the KCC, that's great. But, being able to take segments that are athlete profiles for websites, for Twitter, for social media. Just being able to get that stuff out really quickly and in an automated fashion. So, if you get people in the way mistakes are made and things are slow. So, if you can just take a few boxes and rely on content getting to the right place at the right time, then that is crucial. And so, automation, big thing for us as CatDV, that is a real key thing when trying to manage this stuff cost effectively because while there's an explosion in demand there isn't an explosion in budget so how do people cope when there's all this demand for high quality content but there isn't more money to pay for it. >> So walk us through that journey. If you're talking to a Kansas City Chiefs or another sporting organization, help us understand how you help them understand where to start, to your point budgets are constrained, but the opportunity there for them to really gain much more from their existing digital assets is huge. What is that journey that you help them go on? >> That's a really good question. And, actually it's what motivates me to be in the industry atoll because we make our submergence products, we think they're great. But, asset management doesn't exist in isolation. There's cameras and networking and storage and archiving and distribution and so the first conversation that we have when engaging with any customer sports included, is What's your problem? What are you trying to achieve? And we end up having really interesting conversations about folks businesses. How is it that they're trying to get work done? What's the content creation focus like? So, how do you shoot? What do you shoot on? And so, we have to we have to almost follow the life of a file through from when it's being created as a piece of FX or whether it's some content that's being shot on a camera, well how does that get from where it's being made to the consumer and then how does it get reused so that it becomes an asset rather than a liability? Meanwhile, making sure that it's safe. It can't get lost. It can't get stolen and all that kind of stuff. So, we end up almost doing business consulting about the creative process of making content and that is really fascinating and it's only when we have a really good view of that workflow can we recommend well how's the best way to use our stuff and how's the best way for that to work with storage? >> You brought up something about safety and security. Cyber security is a huge issue and we see it in all that we talk to a lot of different industries here on the Cube and in some industries we had Ted Harrington on the program a little bit ago who's one of the security experts and he said in some industries it's sort of nice to have. More in media and entertainment it's really starting to become part of the culture. >> Yeah. >> Is that something that you're experiencing? >> Oh, very much so. >> Absolutely. >> So and there's always this balance like, so everybody wants their content everywhere and we find out when the execs say oh I don't want to log in, I just want you to send me the video. It's like, well we can do that and we send you the video and it's enormously simple but it's not secure. And so what we try and do is have a balance. We have simple tools that are secure and we have many government agencies and military agencies that use our software so we love working with those guys. They help us to improve our product and to harden it because there's so many well publicized cases of content being stolen. So, we try and get a good balance between hyper secure lockdown and very usable and we work with customers to kind of choose how far down that path they want to get. And you know there's some simple things you can do too. If you're sharing content over the internet then, putting nice watermarks on stuff whether they be visible watermarks or invisible ones that are kind of burnt in, then that can really stop people misusing content or stop people making mistakes about where content's going to be broadcast. Because it's really clear. You're not going to put stuff up if it's got a big label over it. >> Right, you mentioned working with different types of customers, broadcasts, sports, houses of worship. From a collaboration perspective, talk to us about how Square Box facilitates collaboration. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, there are kind of three core things that CatDV does, automate, collaborate and organize. Right, so for this show one of our biggest announcements is CatDV social. And so, what CatDV social lets you do is to have a conversation realtime, a bit like a Skype or a Slack conversation either between a couple of people or group about a collaborative event. So, we're making some content. You know, I need this sound file right now. So, being able to have that realtime collaborative conversation is a new feature in CatDV. We're previewing it at the show and I have to say it's getting a huge amount of interest. It's great. >> Fantastic. Well Dave, thank you so much for being on the program. We wish you nothing but continued success at Square Box. >> Thank you very much. >> And we want to thank you for watching the Cube. Again, live from Las Vegas at NAB 2017. I'm Lisa Martin. Stick around, we'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose, California, it's the Cube, covering Big Data Silicon Valley 2017. (upbeat music) >> Hello and welcome to the Cube's special coverage of Big Data SV, Big Data in Silicon Valley in conjunction with Strata + Hadoop. I'm John Furrier with George Gilbert, with Mickey Bonn and Peter Burns as well. We'll be doing interviews all day today and tomorrow, here in Silicon Valley in San Jose. Our next guest is Amit Walia who's the Executive Vice President and Chief Product Officer of Informatica. Kicking of the day one of our coverage. Great to see you. Thanks for joining us on our kick off. >> Good to be here with you, John. >> So obviously big data. this is like the eighth year of us covering, what was once Hadoop World, now it's Strata + Hadoop, Big Data SV. We also do Big Data NYC with the Cube and it's been an interesting transformation over the past eight years. This year has been really really hot with you're starting to see Big Data starting to get a clear line of sight of where it's going. So I want to get your thoughts, Amit, on where the view of the marketplace is from your standpoint. Obviously Informatica's got a big place in the enterprise. And the real trends on how the enterprises are taking analytics and specifically with the cloud. You got the AI looming, all buzzed up on AI. That really seized, people had to get their arms around that. And you see IoT. Intel announced an acquisition, $15 billion for autonomous vehicles, which is essentially data. What's your views? >> Amit: Well I think it's a great question. 10 years have happened since Hadoop started right? I think what has happened as we see is that today what enterprises are trying to encapsulate is what they call digital transformation. What does it mean? I mean think about it, digital transformation for enterprises, it means three unique things. They're transforming their business models to serve their customers better, they're transforming their operational models for their own execution internally, if I'm a manufacturing or an execution-oriented company. The third one is basically making sure that their offerings are also tailored to their customers. And in that context, if you think about it, it's all a data-driven world. Because it's data that helps customers be more insightful, be more actionable, and be a lot more prepared for the future. And that covers the things that you said. Look, that's where Hadoop came into play with big data. But today the three things that organizations are catered around big data is just a lot of data right? How do I bring actionable insights out of it? So in that context, ML and AI are going to play a meaningful role. Because to me as you talk about IoT, IoT is the big game changer of big data becoming big or huge data if I may for a minute. So machine learning, AI, self-service analytics is a part of that, and the third one would be big data and Hadoop going to cloud. That's going to be very fast. >> John: And so the enterprises now are also transforming, so this digital transformation, as you point out, is absolutely real, it's happening. And you start to see a lot more focus on the business models of companies where it's not just analytics as a IT function, it's been talked about for a while, but now it's really more relevant because you're starting to see impactful applications. >> Exactly. >> So with cloud and (chuckles) the new IoT stuff you start to say okay apps matter. And so the data becomes super important. How is that changing the enterprises' readiness in terms of how they're consuming cloud and data and what not? What's you're view on that? Because you guys are deep in this. >> Amit: Yep. >> What's the enterprises' orientation these days? >> So slight nuance to that, as an answer. I think what organizations have realized is that today two things happened that never happened in the last 20 years. Massive fragmentation of the persistence layer, you see Hadoop itself fragmented the whole database layer. And a massive fragmentation of the app layer. So there are 3,000 enterprise size apps today. So just think about it, you're not restricted to one app. So what customers and enterprises are realizing is that, the data layer is where you need to organize yourself. So you need to own the data layer, you cannot just be in the app layer and the database layer because you got to be understanding your data. Because you could be anywhere and everywhere. And the best example I give in the world of cloud is, you don't own anything, you rent it. So what do you own? You own the darn data. So in that context, enterprise readiness as you came to, becomes very important. So understanding and owning your data is the critical secret sauce. And that's where companies are getting disrupted. So the new guys are leveraging data, which by the way the legacy companies had, but they couldn't figure it out. >> What is that? This is important. I want to just double-click on that. Because you mentioned the data layer, what's the playbook? Because that's like the number one question that I get. >> Mm-hmm. >> On Cube interviews or off camera is that okay, I want to have a data strategy. Now that's empty in its statement, but what is the playbook? I mean, is it architecture? Because the data is the strategic advantage. >> Amit: Yes. >> What are they doing? What's the architecture? What are some of the things that enterprises do? Now obviously they care about service level agreements and having potentially multicloud, for instance, as a key thing. But what is that playbook for this data layer? >> That's a very good question, sir. Enterprise readiness has a couple of dimensions. One you said is that there will be hybrid doesn't mean a ground cloud multicloud. I mean you're going to be in multi SAS apps, multi platform apps, multi databases in the cloud. So there is a hybrid world over there. Second is that organizations need to figure out a data platform of their own. Because ultimately what they care for is that, do I have a full view of my customer? Do I have a full view of the products that I'm selling and how they are servicing my customers? That can only happen if you have what I call a meta-data driven data platform. Third one is, boy oh boy, you talked about self-service analytics, you need to know answers today. Having analytics be more self-serving for the business user, not necessarily the IT user, and then leveraging AI to make all these things a lot more powerful. Otherwise, you're going to be spending, what? Hours and hours doing statistical analysis, and you won't be able to get to it given the scale and size of data models. And SLAs will play a big role in the world of cloud. >> Just to follow up on that, so it sounds like you've got the self-service analytics to help essentially explore and visualize. >> Amit: Mm-hmm. >> You've got the data governance and cataloging and lineage to make sure it is high quality and navigable, and then you want to operationalize it once you've built the models. But there's this tension between I want what made the data lake great, which was just dump it all in there so we have this one central place, but all the governance stuff on top of that is sort of just well, we got to organize it anyway. >> Yeah. >> How do you resolve that tension? >> That is a very good question. And that's where enterprises kind of woke up to. So a good example I'll give you, what everybody wanted to make a data lake. I mean if you remember two years ago, 80% of the data lakes fell apart and the reason was for the fact that you just said is that people made the data lake a data swamp if I may. Just dump a lot of data into my loop cluster, and life will be great. But the thing is that, and what customers of large enterprises realized is they became system integrators of their own. I got to bring data, catalog it, prepare it, surface it. So the belief of customers now is that, I need a place to go where basically it can easily bring in all the data, meta-data driven catalog, so I can use AI and ML to surface that data. So it's very easy at the preparation layer for my analysts to go around and play with data and then I can visualize anything. But it's all integrated out of the box, then each layer, each component being self-integrated, then it falls apart very quickly when you want to, to your question, at an enterprise level operationalize it. Large enterprises care about two things. Is it operationalizable? And is it scalable? That's where this could fall apart. And that's what our belief is. And that's where governance happens behind the scenes. You're not doing anything. Security of your data, governance of their data is driven through the catalog. You don't even feel it. It's there. >> I never liked the data lakes term. Dave Vellante knows I've always been kind of against, even from day one, 'cause data's more fluid, I call it a data ocean, but to your point, I want to get on that point because I think data lakes is one dimension, right? >> Yeah. >> And we talked about this at Informatica World, last year I think. And this year it's May 15th. >> Yes. >> I think your event is coming up, but you guys introduced meta-data intelligence. >> Yep. >> So there was, the old model was throw it centralized, do some data governance, data management, fence it out, call, make some queries, get some reports. I'm over simplifying but it was like, it was like a side function. You're getting at now is making that data valuable. >> Amit: Yep. >> So if it's in a lake or it's stored, you never know when the data's going to be relevant, so you have to have it addressable. Could you just talk about where this meta-data intelligence is going? Because you mentioned machine learning and AI. 'Cause this seems to be what everyone is talking about. In real time, how do I make the data really valuable when I need it? And what's the secret sauce that you guys have, specifically, to make that happen? >> So that, to contextualize that question, think about it. So if you. What you don't want to do is keep make everything manual. Our belief is that the intelligence around data has to be at the meta-data level, right? Across the enterprise, which is why, when we invested in the catalog, I used the word, "It's the google of data for the enterprise." No place in an enterprise you can go search for all your data, and given that the fast, rapid-changing sources of data, think about IoT, as you talked about, John. Or think about your customer data, for you and me may come from a new source tomorrow. Do you want the analyst to figure out where the data is coming from? Or the machine learning or AI to contextualize and tell you, you know what, I just discovered a great new source for where John is going to go shop. Do you want to put that as a part of analytics to give him an offer? That's where the organizing principle for data sits. The catalog and all the meta-data, which is where ML and AI will converge to give the analyst self-discovery of data sets, recommendations like in Amazon environment, recommendations like Facebook, find other people or other common data that's like a Facebook or a LinkedIn, that is where everything is going, and that's why we are putting all our efforts on AI. >> So you're saying, you want to abstract the way the complexity of where the data sits? So that the analyst or app can interface with that? >> That's exactly right. Because to me, those are the areas that are changing so rapidly, let that be. You can pick whatever data sets based on what you want, you can pick whichever app you want to use, wherever you want to go, or wherever your business wants to go. You can pick whichever analytical tool you like, but you want to be able to take all of those tools but be able to figure out what data is there, and that should change all the time. >> I'm trying to ask you a lot while you're here. What's going to be the theme this year at Informatica World? How do you take it to the next level? Can you just give us a teaser of what we might expect this year? 'Cause this seems to be the hottest trend. >> This is, so first, at Informatica World this year, we will be unveiling our whole new strategy, branding, and messaging, there's a whole amount of push on that one. But the two things that will be focused a lot on is, one is around that intelligent data platform. Which is basically what I'm talking about. The organizing principle of every enterprise for the next decade, and within that, where AI is going to play a meaningful role for people to spring forward, discover things, self-service, and be able to create sense from this mountains of data that's going to sit around us. But we won't even know what to do. >> All right, so what do you guys have in the product, just want to drill into this dynamic you just mentioned, which is new data sources. With IoT, this is going to completely make it more complex. You never know what data's going to be coming off the cars, the wearables, the smart cities. You have all these new killer use-cases that are going to be transformational. How do you guys handle that, and what's the secret sauce of? 'Cause that seems to be the big challenge, okay, I'm used to dealing with data, its structure, whether it's schemas, now we got unstructured. So okay, now I got new data coming in very fast, I don't even know when or where it's going to come in, so I have to be ready for these new data. What is the Informatica solution there? >> So in terms of taking data from any source, that's never been a challenge for us, because Informatica, one of the bread and butter for us is that we connect and bring data from any potential source on the planet, that's what we do. >> John: And you automate that? >> We automate that process, so any potential new source of data, whether it's IoT, unstructured, semi-structured, log, we connect to that. What I think the key is, where we are heavily invested, once you've brought all that. By the way, you can use Kafka Cues for that, you can use back-streaming, all of that stuff you could do. Question is, how do you make sense out of it? I can get all the data, dump it in a Kafka Cue, and then I take it to do some processing on Spark. But the intelligence is where all the Informatica secret sauce is, right? The meta-data, the transformations, that's what we are invested in, but in terms of connecting anything to everything? That we do for a living, we have done that for one quarter of a century, and we keep doing it. >> I mean, I love having a chat with you, Amit, you're a product guy, and we love product guys, 'cause they can give us a little teaser on the roadmap, but I got to ask you the question, with all this automation, you know, the big buzz out in the world is, "Oh machine learning and AI is replacing jobs." So where is the shift going to be, because you can almost connect the dots and say, "Okay, you're going to put some people out of work, "some developer, some automation, "maybe the systems management layer or wherever." Where are those jobs shifting to? Because you could almost say, "Okay, if you're going to abstract away and automate, "who loses their job?" Who gets shifted and what are those new opportunities, because you could almost say that if you automate in, that should create a new developer class. So one gets replaced, one gets created possibly. Your thoughts on this personnel transformation? >> Yeah, I think, I think what we see is that value creation will change. So the jobs will go to the new value. New areas where value is created. A great example of that is, look at developers today, right. Absolutely, I think they did a terrific job in making sure that the Hadoop ecosystem got legitimized, right? But in my opinion, where enterprise scalability comes, enterprises don't want lots of different things to be integrated and just plumbed together. They want things to work out of the box, which is why, you know, software works for them. But what happens is that they want that development community to go work on what I call value-added areas of the stack. So think about it, in connected car, they're working with lots of customers on the connected car issue, right? They don't want developers to work on the plumbing. They want us to kind of give that out of the box, because SLA is operational scale, and enterprise scalability matters, but in terms of the top-layer analytics, to make sure we can make sense out of it, that's what they're, that's where they want innovation. So what you will see is that, I don't think the jobs will go in vapor, but I do think the jobs will get migrated to a different part of the stack, which today it has not been, but that's, you know, we live in Silicon Valley, that's a natural evolution we see, so I think that will happen. In general in the larger industry, again I'd say, look, driverless cars, I don't think they've driven away jobs. What they've done is created a new class of people who work. So I do think that will be a big change. >> Yeah there's a fallacy there. I mean with the ATM argument was ATM's are going to replace tellers, yet more branches opened up. >> That's exactly it. >> So therefore creating new jobs. I want to get to the quick question, I know George has a question, but I want to get on the cost of ownership, because one of the things that's been criticized in some of these emerging areas, like Hadoop and Open Stack, for instance, just to pick two random examples. It's great, looks good, you know, all peace and love. An industry's being created, legitimized, but the cost of ownership has been critical to get that done, it's been expensive, talent, to find talent and deploying it was hard. We heard that on the Cube many times. How does the cost of ownership equation change? As you go after these more value, as developers and businesses go after these more value-creating activities in the Stack? >> See look, I always say, there is no free lunch. Nothing is free. And customers realize that, that open source, if you completely wanted to, to your point, as enterprises wanted to completely scale out and create an end-to-end operational infrastructure, open source ends up being pretty expensive. For all the reasons, right, because you throw in a lot of developers, and it's not necessarily scalable, so what we're seeing right now is that enterprises, as they have figured that this works for me, but when they want to go scale it out, they want to go back to what I call a software provider, who has the scale, who has the supportability, who also has the ability to react to changes and also for them to make sure that they get the comfort that it will work. So to me, that's where they find it cheaper. Just building it, experimenting with that, it's cheaper here, but scaling it out is cheaper with a software provider, so we see a lot of our customers when we start a little bit experimenting to developers, downloading something, works great, but would I really want to take it across Nordstrom or a JP Morgan or a Morgan Stanley. I need security, I need scalability, I need somebody to call to, at that point on those equations become very important. >> And that's where the out of box experience comes in, where you have the automation, that kind of. >> Exactly. >> Does that ease up some of the cost of ownership? >> Exactly, and the talent is a big issue, right? See we live in Silicon Valley, so we. By the way, Silicon Valley hiring talent is hard. Just think about it, if you go to Kansas City, hiring a scholar developer, that's a rare breed. So just, when I go around the globe and talk to customers, they don't see that talent at all that we here just somehow take for granted. They don't, so it's hard for them to kind of put their energy behind it. >> Let me ask. More on the meta-data layer. There's an analogy that's come up from the IIoT world where they're building these digital twins, and it's not just GE. IBM's talking about it, and actually, we've seen more and more vendors where the digital twin is this, it's a digital representation now of some physical object. But you could think of it as meta-data, you know, for a physical object, and it gets richer over time. So my question is, meta-data in the old data warehouse world, was we want one representation of the customer. But now it's, there's a customer representation for a prospect, and one for an account, and one for, you know, in warranty, and one for field service. Is that, how does that change what you offer? >> That's a very very good question. Because that's where the meta-data becomes so much more important because its manifestation is changing. I'll give you a great example, take Transamerica, Transamerica is a customer of ours leveraging big data at scale, and what they're doing is that, to your question, they have existing customers who have insurance through them. But they're looking for white space analysis, who could be potential opportunities? Two distinct ones, and within that, they're looking at relationships. I know you, John, you have Transamerica, could you be an influencer with me? Or within your family, extended family. I'm a friend, but what about a family member that you've declared out there on social media? So they are doing all that stuff in the context of a data lake. How are they doing it? So in that context, think about that complexity of the job, pumping data into a lake won't solve it for them, but that's a necessary first step. The second step is where all of that meta-data through ML and AI, starts giving them that relationship graph. To say, you know what, John in itself has this white space opportunity for you, but John is related to me in one way, him and me are connected on Facebook. John's related to you a little bit more differently, he has a stronger bond with you, and within his family, he has different strong bonds. So that's John's relationship graph. Leverage him, if he has been a good customer of yours. All of that stuff is now at the meta-data level, not just the monolithic meta-data, relationship graph. His relationship graph of what he has bought from you, so that you can just see that discovery becomes a very important element. Do you want to do that in different places? You want to do that in one place. I may be in a cloud environment, I may be on prem, so that's where when I say that meta-data becomes the organized principle, that's where it becomes real. >> Just a quick follow-up on that, then. It doesn't seem obvious that every end customer of yours, not the consumer but the buyer of the software, would have enough data to start building that graph. >> I don't think, to me, what happened was, the word big data, I thought got massively abused. A lot of Hadoop customers are not necessarily big data customers. I know a lot of banking customers, enterprise banking, whose data volumes will surprise you, but they're using Hadoop. What they want is intelligence. That's why I keep saying that the meta-data part, they are more interested in a deeper understanding of the data. A great example is, if John. I had a customer, who basically had a big bank. Rich net worth customer. In their will, the daughter was listed. When the daughter went to school, by the way, went to the bank branch in that city, she had no idea, she walked up, she basically wanted to open an account. Three more friends in the line. Manager comes out because at that point, the teller said, "This is somebody you should take special care of." Boom, she goes in a special cabin, the other friends are standing in a line. Think of the customer service perception, you just created a new millennia right? That's important. >> Well this brings up the interesting comment. The whole graph thing, we love, but this brings back the neural network trend. Which is a concept that's been around for a long long time, but now it's front and center. I remember talking to Diane Green who runs Google Cloud, she was saying that you couldn't hire neural network, they couldn't get jobs 15 years ago. Now you can't hire enough of them. So that brings up the ML conversation. So, I want to take that to a question and ask about the data lake, 'cause you guys have announced a new cloud data lake. >> Yes. >> So it sounds like, from what you're saying, is you're going beyond the data lake. So talk about what that is. Because data lake, people get, you throw stuff into a lake. And hopefully it doesn't become a swamp. How are you guys going beyond just the basic concept of a data lake with your new cloud data lake? >> Yeah, so, data lake. If you remember last year, actually at Strata San Jose we chatted, and we had announced the data lake because we realized customers, to your point John, as you said, were struggling on how to even build a data lake, and they were all over the place, and they were failing. And we announced the first data lake there, and then in Strata New York, basically we brought the meta-data ML part to the data lake. And then obviously right now we're taking it to the cloud, and what we see in the world of data lake is that customers ask for three things. First, they want the prebuilt integrated solution. Data can come in, but I want the intelligence of meta-data and I want data preparation baked in. I don't want to have three different tools that I will go around, so out of the box. But we also saw, as they become successful with our customers, they want to scale up, scale down. Cloud is just a great place to go. You can basically put a data lake out there, by the way in the context of data, a lot of new data sources are in the cloud, so it's easy for them to scale in and out in the cloud, experiment there and all that stuff. Also you know Amazon, we supported Amazon Kinesis, all of these new sources and technologies in the world of cloud are allowing experimentation in the data lake, so that allowed our customers to basically get ahead of the curve very quickly. So in some ways, cloud allowed customers to do things a lot faster, better, and cheaper. So that's what we basically put in the hands of our customers. Now that they are feeling comfortable, they can do a secured and governed data lake without feeling that it's still not self-served. They want to put it in the cloud and be a lot more faster and cheaper about it. >> John: And more analytics on it. >> More analytics. And now, because our ML, our AI, the meta-data part, connects cloud, ground, everything. So they have an organizing principle, whatever they put wherever, they can still get intelligence out of it. >> Amit, we got to break, but I want to get one final comment for you to kind of end the segment, and it's been fun watching you guys work over the past couple years. And I want to get your perspective because the product decisions always have kind of a time table to them, it's not like you made this up last night because it's trendy, but you guys have made some good product choices. It seems like the wind's at your back right now at Informatica. What, specifically, are bets that you guys made a couple years ago that are now bearing fruit? Can you just take a minute to end the segment, share some of those product bets. Because it's not always that obvious to make those product bets years earlier, seems to be a tail wind for you. You agree, and can you share some of those bets? >> I think you said it rightly, product bets are hard, right? Because you got to see three, four years ahead. The one big bet that we made is that we saw, as I said to you, the decoupling of the data layer. So we realized that, look, the app layer's getting fragmented. The cloud platforms are getting fragmented. Databases are getting fragmented. That that whole old monolithic architecture is getting fundamentally blown up, and the customers will be in a multi, multi, multi spread out hybrid world. Data is the organizing principle, so three years ago, we bet on the intelligent data platform. And we said that the intelligent data platform will be intelligent because of the meta-data driven layer, and at that point, AI was nowhere in sight. We put ML in that picture, and obviously, AI has moved, so the bet on the data platform. Second bet that, in that data platform, it'll all be AI, ML driven meta-data intelligence. And the third one is, we bet big on cloud. Big data we had already bet big on, by the way. >> John: You were already there. >> We knew the cloud. Big data will move to the cloud far more rapidly than the old technology moved to the cloud. So we saw that coming. We saw the (mumbles) wave coming. We worked so closely with AWS and the Azure team. With Google now, as well. So we saw three things, and that's what we bet. And you can see the rich offerings we have, the rich partnerships we have, and the rich customers that are live in those platforms. >> And the market's right on your doorstep. I mean, AI is hot, ML, you're seeing all this stuff converge with IoT. >> So those were, I think, forward-looking bets that paid out for us. (chuckles) And but there's so much more to do, and so much more upside for all of us right now. >> A lot more work to do. Amit, thank you for coming on, sharing your insight. Again, you guys got in good pole position in the market, and again it's right on your doorstep, so congratulations. This is the Cube, I'm John Furrier with George Gilbert. With more coverage in Silicon Valley for Big Data SV and Strata + Hadoop after this short break.