[Music] hi and welcome to this cube conversation in the cube Studios in Palo Alto California I'm your host Sonia - Gauri and today we're joined by two guests Justin Warren who is the chief analyst and managing director of pivot 9 and John Troy the chief reckoner of tech reckoning John and Justin welcome to the cube Thanks thanks for having us great so Justin you're in Melbourne Australia John your local to California let's start with Justin Justin you work at pivot 9 tell us a little bit about your role and what you do so I'm the founder and chief analyst steered pivot know and so everything is my fault we we like to help customers with positioning and messaging that's what most of them come to us for so we we maintain a pretty good research focus on the market focus on enterprise infrastructure cloud and information security and our clients come to us for help with positioning into those markets that's awesome and John you're the chief reckoner at Tech reckoning so tell us more about tech reckoning and what you do sure in in a way my keep reckoner is just might know I guess I am also the bottle washer and analyst as well we work with companies that help them with their ecosystem of technologists we work community and influence and advocacy and Deverell is the term of art that people like right now but basically we work we help communities communicate with their their their the ecosystems of which that's great and you're both a host of the cube so let's go down the line John tell us how did you get into hosting the cube and how has that experience been like I was here at cube number one we we started to realize that video streaming was available in a reasonable way at events and I believe we worked we worked with John and Dave and some of the few boats who were Bill around now to bring them to VMworld over ten years ago I was also doing it home at myself with him disappear that we bought it electronic door I'm very quickly looking very welcome to have them take over a functionality for a lot of people and Justin how about you how's your experience been yeah it's been great it's a again happy accident as things started off I happen to nice to I've known him for a few years and they he was in need of submersed hosting spots at a conference that I I happen to be at anyway and I foolishly said yes and now I've done it more than once oh it's is it gets a lot easier after you've done it two or three time are there any tips and tricks you would give okay thank you so much for being on the cube and we will see you next time [Music] you [Music]

>>Live from San Diego, California It's the Q covering Koopa and Cloud Native Cot brought to you by Red Cloud, Native Computing Pounding and its ecosystem March. >>Welcome back to the Cube here at Q. Khan Club native Khan, 2019 in San Diego, California Instrumental in my co host is Jon Cryer and first of all, happy to welcome back to the program. Diane Mueller, who is the technical of the tech lead of cloud native technology. I'm sorry. I'm getting the wrong That's director of community development Red Hat, because renew. Goodbye is the technical lead of cognitive technologies at in video game to the end of day one. I've got three days. I gotta make sure >>you get a little more Red Bull in the conversation. >>All right, well, there's definitely a lot of energy. Most people we don't even need Red Bull here because we're a day one. But Diane, we're going to start a day zero. So, you know, you know, you've got a good group of community of geeks when they're like Oh, yeah, let me fly in a day early and do like 1/2 day or full day of deep dives. There So the Red Hat team decided to bring everybody on a boat, I guess. >>Yeah. So, um, open ships Commons gathering for this coup con we hosted at on the inspiration Hornblower. We had about 560 people on a boat. I promised them that it wouldn't leave the dock, but we deal still have a little bit of that weight going on every time one of the big military boats came by. And so people were like a little, you know, by the end of the day, but from 8 a.m. in the morning till 8 p.m. In the evening, we just gathered had some amazing deep dives. There was unbelievable conversations onstage offstage on we had, ah, wonderful conversation with some of the new Dev ops folks that have just come on board. That's a metaphor for navigation and Coop gone. And and for events, you know, Andrew Cliche for John Willis, the inevitable Crispin Ella, who runs Open Innovation Labs, and J Bloom have all just formed the global Transformation Office. I love that title on dhe. They're gonna be helping Thio preach the gospel of Cultural Dev ops and agile transformation from a red hat office From now going on, there was a wonderful conversation. I felt privileged to actually get to moderate it and then just amazing people coming forward and sharing their stories. It was a great session. Steve Dake, who's with IBM doing all the SDO stuff? Did you know I've never seen SDO done so well, Deployment explains so well and all of the contents gonna be recorded and up on Aaron. We streamed it live on Facebook. But I'm still, like reeling from the amount of information overload. And I think that's the nice thing about doing a day zero event is that it's a smaller group of people. So we had 600 people register, but I think was 560 something. People show up and we got that facial recognition so that now when they're traveling through the hallways here with 12,000 other people, that go Oh, you were in the room. I met you there. And that's really the whole purpose for comments. Events? >>Yeah, I tell you, this is definitely one of those shows that it doesn't take long where I say, Hey, my brain is full. Can I go home. Now. You know I love your first impressions of Q Khan. Did you get to go to the day zero event And, uh, what sort of things have you been seeing? So >>I've been mostly I went to the lightning talks, which were amazing. Anything? Definitely. There. A number of shout outs to the GPU one, of course. Uh, friend in video. But I definitely enjoyed, for example, of the amazing D. M s one, the one about operators. And generally all of them were very high quality. >>Is this your first Q? Khan, >>I've been there. I've been a year. This is my third con. I've been accused in Europe in the past. Send you an >>old hat old hand at this. Well, before we get into the operator framework and I wanna love to dig into this, I just wanted to ask one more thought. Thought about open shift, Commons, The Commons in general, the relationship between open shift, the the offering. And then Okay, the comments and okay, D and then maybe the announcement about about Okay. Dee da da i o >>s. Oh, a couple of things happened yesterday. Yesterday we dropped. Okay, D for the Alfa release. So anyone who wants to test that out and try it out it's an all operators based a deployment of open shift, which is what open ship for is. It's all a slightly new architectural deployment methodology based on the operator framework, and we've been working very diligently. Thio populate operator hub dot io, which is where all of the upstream projects that have operators like the one that Reynolds has created for in the videos GP use are being hosted so that anyone could deploy them, whether on open shift or any kubernetes so that that dropped. And yesterday we dropped um, and announced Open Sourcing Quay as project quay dot io. So there's a lot of Io is going on here, but project dia dot io is, um, it's a fulfillment, really, of a commitment by Red Hat that whenever we do an acquisition and the poor folks have been their acquired by Cora West's and Cora Weston acquired by Red Hat in an IBM there. And so in the interim, they've been diligently working away to make the code available as open source. And that hit last week and, um, to some really interesting and users that are coming up and now looking forward to having them to contribute to that project as well. But I think the operator framework really has been a big thing that we've been really hearing, getting a lot of uptake on. It's been the new pattern for deploying applications or service is on getting things beyond just a basic install of a service on open shift or any kubernetes. And that's really where one of the exciting things yesterday on we were talking, you know, and I were talking about this earlier was that Exxon Mobil sent a data scientist to the open ship Commons, Audrey Resnick, who gave this amazing presentation about Jupiter Hub, deeper notebooks, deploying them and how like open shift and the advent of operators for things like GP use is really helping them enable data scientists to do their work. Because a lot of the stuff that data signs it's do is almost disposable. They'll run an experiment. Maybe they don't get the result they want, and then it just goes away, which is perfect for a kubernetes workload. But there are other things you need, like a Jeep use and work that video has been doing to enable that on open shift has been just really very helpful. And it was It was a great talk, but we were talking about it from the first day. Signs don't want to know anything about what's under the hood. They just want to run their experiments. So, >>you know, let's like to understand how you got involved in the creation of the operator. >>So generally, if we take a step back and look a bit at what we're trying to do is with a I am l and generally like EJ infrastructure and five G. We're seeing a lot of people. They're trying to build and run applications. Whether it's in data Center at the and we're trying to do here with this operator is to bring GPS to enterprise communities. And this is what we're working with. Red Hat. And this is where, for example, things like the op Agrestic A helps us a lot. So what we've built is this video Gee, few operator that space on the upper air sdk where it wants us to multiple phases to in the first space, for example, install all the components that a data scientist were generally a GPU cluster of might want to need. Whether it's the NVIDIA driver, the container runtime, the community's device again feast do is as you go on and build an infrastructure. You want to be able to have the automation that is here and, more importantly, the update part. So being able to update your different components, face three is generally being able to have a life cycle. So as you manage multiple machines, these are going to get into different states. Some of them are gonna fail, being able to get from these bad states to good states. How do you recover from them? It's super helpful. And then last one is monitoring, which is being able to actually given sites dr users. So the upper here is decay has helped us a lot here, just laying out these different state slips. And in a way, it's done the same thing as what we're trying to do for our customers. The different data scientists, which is basically get out of our way and allow us to focus on core business value. So the operator, who basically takes care of things that are pretty cool as an engineer I lost due to your election. But it doesn't really help me to focus on like my core business value. How do I do with the updates, >>you know? Can I step back one second, maybe go up a level? The problem here is that each physical machine has only ah limited number of NVIDIA. GPU is there and you've got a bunch of containers that maybe spawning on different machines. And so they have to figure out, Do I have a GPU? Can I grab one? And if I'm using it, I assume I have to reserve it and other people can't use and then I have to give it up. Is that is that the problem we're solving here? So this is >>a problem that we've worked with communities community so that like the whole resource management, it's something that is integrated almost first class, citizen in communities, being able to advertise the number of deep, use their your cluster and used and then being able to actually run or schedule these containers. The interesting components that were also recently added are, for example, the monitoring being able to see that a specific Jupiter notebook is using this much of GP utilization. So these air supercool like features that have been coming in the past two years in communities and which red hat has been super helpful, at least in these discussions pushing these different features forward so that we see better enterprise support. Yeah, >>I think the thing with with operators and the operator lifecycle management part of it is really trying to get to Day two. So lots of different methodologies, whether it's danceable or python or job or or UH, that's helm or anything else that can get you an insult of a service or an application or something. And in Stan, she ate it. But and the operator and we support all of that with SD case to help people. But what we're trying to do is bridge the to this day to stuff So Thea, you know, to get people to auto pilot, you know, and there's a whole capacity maturity model that if you go to operator hab dot io, you can see different operators are a different stages of the game. So it's been it's been interesting to work with people to see Theo ah ha moment when they realize Oh, I could do this and then I can walk away. And then if that pod that cluster dies, it'll just you know, I love the word automatically, but they, you know, it's really the goal is to help alleviate the hands on part of Day two and get more automation into the service's and applications we deploy >>right and when they when they this is created. Of course it works well with open shift, but it also works for any kubernetes >>correct operator. HAB Daddio. Everything in there runs on any kubernetes, and that's really the goal is to be ableto take stuff in a hybrid cloud model. You want to be able to run it anywhere you want, so we want people to be unable to do it anywhere. >>So if this really should be an enabler for everything that it's Vinny has been doing to be fully cloud native, Yes, >>I think completely arable here is this is a new attack. Of course, this is a bit there's a lot of complexity, and this is where we're working towards is reducing the complexity and making true that people there. Dan did that a scientist air machine learning engineers are able to focus on their core business. >>You watch all of the different service is in the different things that the data scientists are using. They don't I really want to know what's under under the hood. They would like to just open up a Jupiter Hub notebook, have everything there. They need, train their models, have them run. And then after they're done, they're done and it goes away. And hopefully they remember to turn off the Jeep, use in the woods or wherever it is, and they don't keep getting billed for it. But that's the real beauty of it is that they don't have to worry so much anymore about that. And we've got a whole nice life cycle with source to image or us to I. And they could just quickly build on deploy its been, you know, it's near and dear to my heart, the machine learning the eyesight of stuff. It is one of the more interesting, you know, it's the catchy thing, but the work was, but people are really doing it today, and it's been we had 23 weeks ago in San Francisco, we had a whole open ship comments gathering just on a I and ML and you know, it was amazing to hear. I think that's the most redeeming thing or most rewarding thing rather for people who are working on Kubernetes is to have the folks who are doing workloads come and say, Wow, you know, this is what we're doing because we don't get to see that all the time. And it was pretty amazing. And it's been, you know, makes it all worthwhile. So >>Diane Renaud, thank you so much for the update. Congratulations on the launch of the operators and look forward to hearing more in the future. >>All right >>to >>be here >>for John Troy runs to minimum. More coverage here from Q. Khan Club native Khan, 2019. Thanks for watching. Thank you.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Francisco, everybody. My name is David Lantz. I'm here with my co host John Troia. This is Day three of V M World 2019 2 sets. >> This is >> our 10th year at the M. World Cube is the leader in live enterprise tech coverage. Marry on Blondie is here. He's the C m o and chief evangelist that 10 tree by DDN Yes, sir. He's joined by Graham Breezes The Field CTO at 10 Tree also by DDN Recent acquisition jets Great to see you. >> Likewise, as they say, we're back. I like I like to call it a hibernation in the sense that people may have not known where did Ian or 10 Trias and Tension by Dede and, as the name implies, were acquired a year ago at the M World August 31st of 2018. And in the year since, we've been ableto invest in engineering support, my joining the company in marketing to take this solution, we've been able to save thousands of customers millions of man hours and bring it to a larger number of users. Way >> first saw 10 tree, we said, Wow, this is all about simplification. And Jonah Course you remember that when you go back to the early early Dick Cube days of of'em World, very complex storage was a major challenge. 10 Tree was all about simplifying that. Of course, we know DDN as well is the high performance specialist and have worked with those guys for a number of years. But take >> us >> back Married to the original vision of 10 Cherie. Is that original vision still alive? How was it evolved? >> Well, I'd say that it's, ah, number one reason why we're a part of the DD and family of brands because, as, ah, portfolio company, they're looking good. Bring technologies. I'm the marketing guy for our enterprise or virtual ization audience, and the product sets that cover high performance computing have their own audience. So for me, I'm focused on that. Graham's also focused on that, and, uh, really what continues to make us different today is the fact we were designed to learn from the beginning to understand how virtual machines end to end work with infrastructure. And that's really the foundation of what makes us different today. The same thing, right? >> So from the very beginning we were we were built to understand the work clothes that we service in the data center. So and that was virtual machines. We service those on multiple hyper visors today in terms of being able to understand those workloads intrinsically gives us a tremendous capability. Thio place. I owe again understanding that the infrastructure network storage, hyper visor, uh, weaken view that end end in terms of a latent a graph and give customers and insight into the infrastructure how it's performing. I would say that we're actually extending that further ways in terms of additional workload that we're gonna be able to take on later this year. >> So I know a lot >> of storage admits, although I I only play one on >> TV, but, uh, no, consistently >> throughout the years, right? 10 tree user experiences that is the forefront there. And in fact, they they often some people have said, You know what? I really want to get something done. I grab my tent Reeboks and so it can't talk. Maybe some examples of one example of why the user experience how the user experiences differ or why, why it's different. >> I'll start off by saying that I had a chance being new to the company just two weeks to meet a lot of 10 tree users. And prior to taking the job, I talkto us some folks behind the scenes, and they all told me the same thing. But what I was so interested to hear is that if they didn't have 10 tree, they'd otherwise not have the time to do the automation work, the research work, the strategy work or even the firefighting that's vital to their everyday operations. Right? So it's like, of course, I don't need to manage it. If I did, I wouldn't be able to do all these other things. And I think that's it. Rings true right that it's hard to quantify that time savings because people say, 0 1/2 of it. See, that's really not much of the greater scheme of things. I don't know. 1/2 50. Working on strategic program is a huge opportunity. Let's see >> the value of 10 tree to our end users and we've heard from a lot of them this week actually spent a fantastic event hearing from many of our passionate consumers. From the very beginning. We wanted to build a product that ultimately customers care about, and we've seen that this week in droves. But I would say the going back to what they get out of it. It's the values and what they don't have to do, so they don't have to carve up ones. They don't have to carve up volumes. All they have to do is work with the units of infrastructure that air native to their environment, v ems. They deal with everything in their environment from our virtual machine perspective, virtual machines, one thing across the infrastructure. Again, they can add those virtual machines seamlessly. They can add those in seconds they don't have toe size and add anything in terms of how am I gonna divide up the storage coming in a provisional I Oh, how am I going to get the technical pieces right? Uh, they basically just get place v EMS, and we have a very simplistic way to give them Ah, visualization into that because we understand that virtual machine and what it takes to service. It comes right back to them in terms of time savings that are tremendous in terms of that. >> So let's deal with the elephant in the room. So, so 10 tree. We've talked about all the great stuff in the original founding vision. But then I ran into some troubles, right? And so what? How do you deal with that with customers in terms of just their perception of what what occurred you guys did the eye poets, et cetera, take us through how you're making sure customers are cool with you guys. >> I'm naturally, glass is half full kind of guy from previous, uh, times on the Cube. The interesting thing is, not a lot of people actually knew. Maybe we didn't create enough brand recognition in the past for people to even know that there was a transition. There were even some of our customers. And Graham, you can pile on this that because they don't manage the product every day because they don't have to. It's kind of so easy they even for gotten a lot about it on don't spend a lot of time. I'd say that the reason why we are able to continue. Invest today a year after the acquisition is because retaining existing customers was something that was very successful, and to a lot of them, you can add comments. It wasn't easy to switch to something. They could just switch to something else because there's no other product, does these automatic things and provides the predictive modeling that they're used to. So it's like what we switched to so they just kept going, and to them, they've given us a lot of great feedback. Being owned by the largest private storage company on planet Earth has the advantages of strong source of supply. Great Leverett reverse logistics partnerships with suppliers as a bigger company to be able to service them. Long >> trial wasn't broke, so you didn't need to fix it. And you were ableto maintain obviously a large portion of that customer base. And what was this service experience like? And how is that evolving? And what is Dede and bring to the table? >> So, uh, boy DD and brings so many resources in terms of bringing this from the point when they bought us last year. A year ago today, I think we transition with about 40 people in the company. We're up about 200 now, so Ah, serious investment. Obviously, that's ah have been a pretty heavy job in terms of building that thing back up. Uh, service and support we've put all of the resource is the stated goal coming across the acquisition was they have, ah, 10. Tree support tender by DNC would be better than where 10 tree support was. We fought them on >> rate scores, too. So it's hard to go from there. Right? And >> I would say what we've been doing on that today. I mean, in terms of the S L. A's, I think those were as good as they've ever been from that perspective. So we have a big team behind us that are working really hard to make sure that the customer experience is exactly what we want. A 10 tree experience to be >> So big messages at this This show, of course, multi cloud kubernetes solving climate change, fixing the homeless problem in San Francisco. I'm not hearing that from you guys. What's what's your key message to the VM world? >> Well, I personally believe that there's a lot of opportunity to invest in improving operations that are already pretty darn stable, operating these environments, talking to folks here on the floor. These new technologies you're talking about are certainly gonna change the way we deploy things. But there's gonna be a lot of time left Still operating virtualized server infrastructure and accelerating VD I deployments to just operationalized things better. We're hoping that folks choose some new technologies out there. I mean, there's a bill was a lot of hype in past years. About what technology to choose. We're all flash infrastructure, but well, I'd liketo for the say were intelligent infrastructure. We have 10 and 40 get boards were all flash, but that's not what you choose this. You choose this because you're able to take their operations and spend more your time on the apse because you're not messing around with that low level infrastructure. I think that there's a renaissance of, of, of investment and opportunity to innovate in that space into Graham's point about going further up the stack. We now have data database technology that we can show gives database administrators the direct ability to self service their own cloning, their own, staging their own operations, which otherwise would be a complex set of trouble tickets internally to provision the environment. Everyone loves to self service. That's really big. I think our customers love. It's a self service aspect. I see the self service and >> the ability to d'oh again, not have to worry about all the things that they don't have to do in terms of again not having to get into those details. A cz Morrow mentioned in terms of the database side, that's, ah, workload, the workload intelligence that we've already had for virtual machines. We can now service that database object natively. We're going to do sequel server later this year, uh, being ableto again, being able to see where whether or not they've got a host or a network or a storage problem being able to see where those the that unit they're serving, having that inside is tremendously powerful. Also being able the snapshot to be able to clone to be able thio manage and protect that database in a native way. Not having to worry about, you know, going into a console, worrying about the underlying every structure, the ones, the volumes, all the pieces that might people people would have to get involved with maybe moving from, like, production to test and those kinds of things. So it's the simplicity, eyes all the things that you really don't have to do across the getting down in terms of one's the volumes, the sizing exercises one of our customers put it. Best thing. You know, I hear a lot of things back from different customer. If he says the country, the sentry box is the best employee has >> I see that way? Reinvest, Reinvest. I haven't heard a customer yet that talks about reducing staff. Their I t staff is really, really critical. They want to invest up Kai throw buzzword out there, Dev. Ops. You didn't mention that it's all about Dev ops, right? And one thing that's interesting here is were or ah, technology that supports virtual environments and how many software developers use virtual environments to write, test and and basically developed programmes lots and being able to give those developers the ability to create new machines and be very agile in the way they do. Their test of is awesome and in terms of just taking big amounts of data from a nap, if I can circling APP, which is these virtual machines be ableto look at that on the infrastructure and more of her copy data so that I can do stuff with that data. All in the flying virtualization we think of Dev Ops is being very much a cloud thing. I'd say that virtual ization specifically server virtualization is the perfect foundation for Dav ops like functionality. And what we've been able to do is provide that user experience directly to those folks up the stacks of the infrastructure. Guy doesn't have to touch it. I wanted to pull >> a couple of threads together, and I think because we talked about the original vision kind of E m r centric, VM centric multiple hyper visors now multi cloud here in the world. So what >> are you seeing >> in the customers? Is that is it? Is it a multi cloud portfolio? What? What are you seeing your customers going to in the future with both on premise hybrid cloud public. So where does where does 10 tree fit into the storage portfolio? >> And they kind of >> fit all over the map. I think in terms of the most of the customers that we have ultimately have infrastructure on site and in their own control. We do have some that ultimately put those out in places that are quote unquote clouds, if you will, but they're not in the service. Vendor clouds actually have a couple folks, actually, that our cloud providers. So they're building their own clouds to service customers using market. What >> differentiates service is for serving better d our offerings because they can offer something that's very end end for that customer. And so there's more. They monetize it. Yeah, and I think those type of customers, like the more regional provider or more of a specialty service provider rather than the roll your own stuff, I'd say that Generally speaking, folks want tohave a level of abstraction as they go into new architecture's so multi cloud from a past life I wrote a lot about. This is this idea that I don't have to worry about which cloud I'm on to do what I'm doing. I want to be able to do it and then regards of which clouded on it just works. And so I think that our philosophy is how we can continue to move up the stack and provide not US access to our analytics because all that analytic stuff we do in machine learning is available via a P I We have ah v r o plug in and all that sort of stuff to be able allow that to happen. But when we're talking now about APS and how those APS work across multiple, you know, pieces of infrastructure, multiple V EMS, we can now develop build a composite view of what those analytics mean in a way that really now gives them new inside test. So how can I move it over here? Can I move over here? What's gonna happen if I move it over here over there? And I think that's the part that should at least delineate from your average garden variety infrastructure and what we like to call intelligent infrastructure stopping that can, Actually that's doing stuff to be able to give you that data because there's always a way you could do with the long way. Just nobody has time to do with the long way, huh? No. And I would actually say that you >> know what you just touched on, uh, going back to a fundamental 10 tree. Different churches, getting that level of abstraction, right is absolutely the key to what we do. We understand that workload. That virtual machine is the level of abstraction. It's the unit infrastructure within a virtual environment in terms of somebody who's running databases. Databases are the unit of infrastructure that they want to manage. So we line exactly to the fundamental building blocks that they're doing in those containers, certainly moving forward. It's certainly another piece we're looking. We've actually, uh I think for about three years now, we've been looking pretty hard of containers. We've been waiting to see where customers were at. Obviously Of'em were put. Put some things on the map this week in terms of that they were pretty excited about in terms of looking in terms of how we would support. >> Well, it certainly makes it more interesting if you're gonna lean into it with someone like Vienna where behind it. I mean, I still think there are some questions, but I actually like the strategy of because if I understand it correctly of Visa, the sphere admin is going to see the spear. But ah ah, developers going to see kubernetes. So >> yeah, that's kind of cool. And we just want to give people an experience, allows them to self service under the control of the I T department so that they can spend less time on infrastructure. Just the end of the I haven't met a developer that even likes infrastructure. They love to not have to deal with it at all. They only do it out. It assessed even database folks They love infrastructural because they had to think about it. They wanted to avoid the pitfalls of bad infrastructure infrastructures Code is yeah, way we believe in that >> question. Go to market. Uh, you preserve the 10 tree name so that says a lot. What's to go to market like? How are you guys structuring the >> organizational in terms of, ah, parent company perspective or a wholly owned subsidiary of DDN? So 10 tree by DDN our go to market model is channel centric in the sense that still a vast majority of people who procure I t infrastructure prefer to use an integrator or reseller some sort of thing. As far as that goes, what you'll see from us, probably more than you did historically, is more work with some of the folks in the ecosystem. Let's say in the data protection space, we see a rubric as an example, and I think you can talk to some of that scene where historically 10 Tree hadn't really done. It's much collaboration there, but I think now, given the overall stability of the segment and people knowing exactly where value could be added, we have a really cool joint story and you're talking about because your team does that. >> Yeah, so I would certainly say, you know, in terms of go to market Side, we've been very much channel lead. Actually, it's been very interesting to go through this with the channel folks. It's a There's also a couple other pieces I mentioned you mentioned some of the cloud provider. Some of those certainly crossed lines between whether they're MSP is whether they are resellers, especially as we go to our friends across the pond. Maybe that's the VM it'll Barcelona discussion, but some of those were all three, right? So there are customer their service providers there. Ah ah, channel partner if you want terms of a resellers. So, um, it's been pretty interesting from that perspective. I think the thing is a lot of opportunity interview that Certainly, uh, I would say where we're at in terms of, we're trying to very much. Uh, we understand customers have ecosystems. I mean, Marco Mitchem, the backup spaces, right? Uh, customers. We're doing new and different things in there, and they want us to fit into those pieces. Ah, and I'd certainly say in the world that we're in, we're not tryingto go solve and boil the ocean in terms of all the problems ourselves we're trying to figure out are the things that we can bring to the table that make it easier for them to integrate with us And maybe in some new and novel, right, >> So question So what's the number one customer problem that when you guys hear you say, that's our wheelhouse, we're gonna crush the competition. >> I'll let you go first, >> So I'd say, you know, if they have a virtualized environment, I mean, we belong there. Vermin. Actually, somebody said this bed is the best Earlier again. Today in the booze is like, you know, the person who doesn't have entries, a person who doesn't know about 10 tree. If they have a virtual environment, you know, the, uh I would say that this week's been pretty interesting. Lots of customer meetings. So it's been pretty, pretty awesome, getting a lot of things back. But I would say the things that they're asking us to solve our not impossible things. They're looking for evolution's. They're looking for things in terms of better insights in their environment, maybe deeper insights. One of the things we're looking to do with the tremendous amount of data we've got coming back, Um, got almost a million machines coming back to us in terms of auto support data every single night. About 2.3 trillion data points for the last three years, eh? So we're looking to make that data that we've gotten into meaningful consumable information for them. That's actionable. So again, again, what can we see in a virtual environment, not just 10 tree things in terms of storage of those kinds of things, but maybe what patches they have installed that might be affecting a network driver, which might affect the certain configuration and being able to expose and and give them some actionable ways to go take care of those problems. >> All right, we gotta go marry. I'll give you. The last word >> stated simply if you are using virtual, is a Shinto abstract infrastructure. As a wayto accelerate your operations, I run the M where, if you have ah 100 virtual machine, 150 virtual machines, you could really benefit from maybe choosing a different way to do that. Do infrastructure. I can't say the competition doesn't work. Of course, the products work. We just want hope wanted hope that folks could see that doing it differently may produce a different outcome. And different outcomes could be good. >> All right, Mario Graham, Thanks very much for coming to the cubes. Great. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you for watching John Troy a day Volante. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching the cube?

from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone here live in San Francisco at Moscone West of cubes exclusive coverage of Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John four with mykos John Troy a founder of tech reckoning advisory and on community services firm our next guest is Jason O'Connell openshift platform owner of mark mcquarrie group welcome to the cubes let's get it right that's right well the retail bank of Macquarie so thank you and financial services thanks for coming on so bossy begging is pretty hot big time early adopter of all things tech yes and you doing a lot of work at kubernetes tell us about what you're doing take a minute to explain your job what your focus is some of the some of the environment DevOps things you're doing it's a basically I'm head of the container platform team at Macquarie Bank so basically my team manages open shifts on AWS we do the architecture on there but we also focus a lot on the value add on top so we don't just give our our customers for my team are the developers and the development teams we don't just give them a blank platform we do a lot of automation a lot of work on top of that basically because we want to make sure that the idea of a platform as a service is that we do as much as possible to make developers lives easy talk about the journey when did you start on this effort Asli Amazon's great cloud we use it as well other clouds are coming on you had Google and Microsoft and others but when did the open shift conversations start happening where were you what year was it how long have you been using it it's gone through some great changes I want to get your experience on that open shifter journey I mean somewhat of an early adopter I mean we started looking at this two years ago so that was openshift 3.1 a lot of the basic features weren't even there and it took us a year to both build it out as well as migrate about 40 applications to production so it was only a year ago that we've been in production so it's evolved like so rapidly during that time so 40 applications migrating right that enough in and of itself in a year is is a pretty heavy lift can you talk a little bit about are you just re platforming the applications obviously probably not rewriting at this point the open shift has been a good home for the applications that you started out with it sounds like I mean one of the reasons to choose open shift was docker and it was about that migration path I mean part of the migration was ensuring that developers could get everything running locally get these legacy systems we did a lot of micro services running locally on docker containers on their laptop then the migration was was easy from there but we deliberately didn't want to do like a lift and shift we wanted to rethink how we delivered software as part of this project okay what's the biggest challenges you had in doing this I mean as you can open ships got some great movement Houston Cooper native good bet and kubernetes is looking like a really awesome way to move workloads around and manage containers and clusters so you know what's what are some of the things we've learned what are some of the complexities that you overcame can you share a little bit about some of the specifics I think I think the newness is is probably the biggest challenge I mean going back to two years ago there was some very basic components that weren't there at the time and we knew were coming and even now there are pieces of work which we just don't tackle and we do a very quick fix because we know it's coming later I mean it's just moving and evolving so quickly you know we're waiting a lot for sto which is coming in the future so we're holding back on investing in certain areas because of that so it's always a constant challenge yeah I still looking good and the service mesh is hot as well how has OpenShift helped you but what's the list if you had to kind of boil it down what's the bin the the impact to you guys where's the where's that coming from I mean before we even selected OpenShift we had we're looking at our objectives from a business perspective not a technology perspective I'm the biggest objective we had was speed to delivery you know how could you get a business idea a product idea into production as fast as possible or even if you look at a minor fix to something something that should be easier develop it takes a data ride why does it take a month to release the production so speed of delivery was one of the key objectives and I can tell you more about how we we delivered that in detail but just going back to the objectives we also looked at developer experience you know sometimes the developers are not spending enough time coding and doing it they want they get bogged down in a lot of other pieces of work that I I'm really delivering business value yeah so again we wanted the platform to handle that for them they could focus more on their work this is the promise of DevOps and the whole idea of DevOps is to automate away the hassles and I mean my partner Dave a lot that calls a rock fetches no one likes to do all that work it's like can someone else just handle it and then when you got now automation that frees it up but this brings up the thing that I would love to get your reaction to because one things we've been covering and talking a lot about in the cube is this isn't happening around us it's not just what we're doing but this new modern way to deploy software you'll get like some of the big things that are happening in with cloud native and you mission is do is to do this awesome dynamic things on the fly that are automated away so it changes the how software is being built how are you guys embracing that what's the thought obviously you've got a team that's got the mindset of dev yeah I'll see embracing this vision and if everything else is probably substandard she'll you look at you know waterfall or any kind of non agile what is the your view of this modern era of writing code and building applications what I mean for people who don't aren't getting it how are you how do you explain it you know I think it's I mean it's an unbelievable time that we're in at the moment I mean the amount of automation that we're doing is huge and part of our openshift is that it's an automated bull platform so I've got a few junior guys in my team they're like two graduates and in turn they do a lot of the automation yeah it's that easy if you look at interestingly in like security and risk teams and governance teams where we're finding look they can improve security risk and all this by automating you know they're the one set and now we've got SEC offs movements and things like that so speed of production is is does not prohibit better security and in fact with Sec ups the amount of automation we do you got a far greater amount of security because we now know everything that's deployed we can continually scanning for vulnerabilities yeah so Jason you talked about it being new we've talked a little bit about culture how much of this has been a training exercise how much is that it's been a cultural shift within your organization as one of the leaders of it how are you approaching I mean we're lucky there within Macquarie Bank there was a large scale culture shift towards agile where the whole bank runs in that gel manner so that's helped us then fill in our technology and automation it complements that way of delivering so we've got some very unique ways where we've done automation and delivery which completely rethinks how we used to deliver before so right example yeah for instance now if you think why were people scared of delivering something into production why was a small change scary change and a big part of it is the blast radius if something went wrong you know connecting through to our API is we've got our own channels mobile apps a website you've got a lot of partners there are the companies connecting through as well and so even if you did a small change if it costs an issue everyone's affected at once so a big piece of what we did to deliver faster is allowed targeted releases you know I could target a release and a change just to you we could target it to a percentage of customers monitor rolled out quickly if there's a problem dial it up if it's looking good good target to any channel it seems like there's a business benefit to that too right that's massive here because you also can promise stability on certain channels if you want you can have faster channels that are moving quickly and in an API driven world we've got external companies connecting through to these api's you want to be able to say that we've given you a stable offering and you can upgrade when you want and then our channels we cannot move more fast so we've got a minister no-brainer I mean really the old way is completely dead because of that because I think what the blast radius you're pointing about blast radius the risk is massive so everyone's kind of on edge all these tests have to go in redundancies as if the planning is ridiculous all for the risk all that energy you're optimizing for a potential non-event or event here with micro services and you an out can go down to the granular level the granularity is really amazing so when you go forward first of all it's a recruiting opportunity to get better engineers wait this is a way we work I'm going forward I want you to comment on your opinion as an industry participant and can clarify this because a lot of people get confused here Automation they think jobs are going away administration is getting automated system admin type roles where junior people can now do more operating things but the operating roles not going away so talk about that that ops side because now the ops are more efficient the right things are audited maybe but talk about that dynamic between the right things being automated and the right things that are gonna roll to operational service messages or whatnot yeah I mean basically it's about getting people to do these higher-order functions so the people who are doing things manually and operating things manually you look at our Ops teams now morphing into like the classic SRE team you know the side reliability engineering teams where they're spending a significant amount of that time automating things you know looking at alerting and monitoring and then Auto healing I mean it's actually more work to automate everything but with a far greater amount of quality and reliability and what we get and the benefits are long it's worth it basically you do the work upfront and you reap the benefits and then variety away it's like writing rolling out software managing workloads talk about multi class here on Amazon multi cloud is a big focus to your hybrid cloud multi-cloud obviously we're seeing that trend how do you look at multi cloud as a practitioner what are some of the things that check our check boxes for you in terms of okay as we start looking to the next level there might be a multiple cloud scenario how do you think about that and how do you put that into perspective that's worth noting even two years ago and we selected openshift it was with the idea that we could go multi cloud you know that for the users for the developers they're not going to know the difference where we run it on so we're not locked into any provider final question for you if you can boil down openshift into kind of like a soundbite for you what does it mean to you guys what's been the benefit what's been it it's been that what's been the role what's the benefit of OpenShift as you pour the cloud journey you know I could say speed I could say automation I mean that's huge but but really open shift and read how to pick the winner which is docker and kubernetes and a colleague of mine is in coop con in Copenhagen last week he's constantly messaging me saying there's new tooling you guys can use this you can use that and it means that rather than us doing the work we're just getting tooling from the community so it's the de facto standards so that's that's probably the biggest benefit all the goodness is just coming right to your front door luckily and I got to do my homework every night playing around with this technology so yeah gates success story and again the great community open-source projects out there you guys can bring that in and productize it for the retail bank congratulations love open-source stories like this tier one citizen and again continues to power the world open source softens the cube do our part bring and use all the data from Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John fryer with John Tory we'll be back with more after this short break

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone we're here live in San Francisco red hat summit 2018 s cubes exclusive coverage we're out in the open in the middle of floor here as open source has always done out in the open it's the cube doing our part extracting the cylinders I'm John for the co-host of the cube with John Troy you might coast analyst this week he's the co-founder of a firm advisory firm our guest case is Paul Comey a president and products on technology of Red Hat architecting the future of red hat and products and technologies all open source great to see you again major see you so thank you coming on so great keynote today you guys have done a great job here I thought the messaging was great but the excitement was strong we just came back off of a week in Copenhagen coop con where kubernetes clearly sees the de facto standard around kubernetes the core kubernetes with a lot of room to differentiate around you got sto service meshes a lot of exciting things for application developers and then under the hood and the new life being brought into OpenStack so there's clear visibility now into what's going on swim lanes whatever we call it people kind of see it so congratulations thank you magical moment Lucky Strike all on the cards give us some color you guys been working on this for a while go back and where did it all start and when did things start clicking together for you guys well I know I sometimes sound like a broken record here but I mean the key to our success is the commercialization of Linux I mean you know Linux we started Linux as a commodity play you know it was cheaper cheaper almost as good et cetera but it became such a powerful platform all the innovation you just talked about is built around Linux it's all tied into Linux so once we lay down the Linux base and the customer and the customer data centers which is such the logical extension to go to these new technologies because it really you really need to be a Linux vendor in order to be able to do a kubernetes to release to be able to support our containers release any of these things it's all just intertwining the Linux and your model is working honestly the open source is no secret that that's open open it's over proprietary and closed but you also have a community model that's feeding into the price of technologies Jim Weider zzyx you know went into detail on hey you don't you know you have a crystal ball and technology because you're smart guys but ultimately the users in the communities give you direct feedback of what's relevant and cool at the right time this is really where kubernetes Lucky Strike for you guys was really there you saw it so the commitment you jumped in can you explain that dynamic of how the products get fed in from the communities I'll give you actually a better example of OpenShift itself so we originally started OpenShift back in 2011 and we started it as a marketing project we started it as a as a cloud-based platform to get developers out there building to our platform and a lot of our customer base saw it and came to us and said I want this as a product this is really really powerful so we made a product out of it first one kubernetes wasn't around containers weren't around we'd built it on virtual machines we had we had what we called gears to lock in and and then containers started to morph in and read by release three we transformed it to containers then we brought in kubernetes because we had worked with the Google folks earlier on that so we really listened to our customers we started at something we thought was going to be an expense and it turns out to be you know one of our hottest our hottest platform right now based on what our customers in the community told us timings everything - and the good timing is as the clouds took the scale started also becoming relevant you see Amazon success now you got as your IBM and everyone's kind of seeing that opportunity how are you guys looking at the container piece because you know we can look at the history and docker you know trying to monetize too early we've been you know we've documented that it went well in the cube many times core OS a recent acquisition big one for you guys and strategic but also a great team containers are super important talk about the role of containers specifically not so much as a business model but as a lynchpin right between how orchestration is moving and how these service messages are coming out I mean you think just real quickly what containers are first containers are just Linux carved up in a different way you still have a kernel still have user space the difference is you take just the user space you want with the application and you run it that way so all the same life cycles security issues you have to fix etc they have to do on a standard Linux have to do it in containers the first thing containers been around forever they were in units if we all if we all remember but the killer app for containers was because now when I can bring just enough two of the OS with the application I can run that to the cloud that's how we get the app out to the cloud that's how we get it onto the private cloud out to any of the public clouds how we reverse the clouds so even though they've been around for a while it's the killer app for containers so you mentioned hybrid cloud hybrid cloud multi-cloud are there are the terms it's this week we hear them a lot that been up on stage one way of putting it is is thinking about that different places of deploying but in one you are really saying that it doesn't matter where you deploy there's there's layers of an especially openshift can take you to different clouds it location doesn't matter anymore can you drill down on that a little bit absolutely I mean our our whole we took a bed I mean it sounds obvious now it always does right we took a bed on hybrid cloud I've been talking about it for six or seven years and what it means is customers are going to have applications that run on bare metal they're going to have running as virtual machines probably on VMware they're going to maybe run their private clouds maybe containers maybe across multiple clouds end of the day it's it's Linux underneath that what customers don't want is five different operating because every Linux is slightly different they don't want five different operating environments they want and want one so what we do with rel and with openshift is we give you that abstraction layer for your application to code once and you can move that app anywhere I mean the clouds the public clouds have brought a tremendous amount of innovation and I don't want to say this in a derogatory way but in some sense they're like a mainframe because they have their stack all the way up to there a flick their products are their services and so you start you start up you start up a service of server lists of lambda that's never leaving Amazon never so so it's great in many cases if that's ok for that app but there's a lot of cases you might want to run the app here one day and there the next day so you really need an abstraction layer to ensure that you have that portability and that's what shift and containers are so important right I hear things like de-facto standard and abstraction layers the bells go up opportunity because you now that's where complexity can be reduced down when you have good at rational layers but we've been interviewing folks here and the some themes have come up about the sea change that we're facing this cloud scale new Internet infrastructure going on globally and the two points are tcp/ip moment you know during that time that was networking even and that disrupted decnet today and others and then HTTP both are different HTV was all new capabilities the web disrupt the Direct Mail and other things analog leaving but he stupid created inter inter networking basis right Cisco and everything else here what containers what's interesting and I want to get your reaction to this is that with containers I don't have to kill the old to bring in the new I can do the new and then let the lifecycle of those workloads take a natural natural course this is a good thing for enterprise they don't have to rush in do a rip and replace they don't have to react attacked hire new people at massive scale talk about that dynamic is that seems to be what's happening it's exactly what's heavy you know we did a bunch of demos on stage this week I think nine of them live the coolest demo was the one where we showed we actually took a Windows virtual machine with a Windows SQL based virtual machine from VMware with tools we brought that over to a KVM environment which is it's a different format for the VM brought that to a KVM environment we then use tools to slice it up into two containers one being the app itself the other being at SQL and we deployed it out to openshift and we could eventually have deployed out to any public cloud that's significant for two reasons first of all you're now seeing kubernetes orchestrating VMs right beside containers so you can kind of see where that's going right so that's really that's interesting for the operators now because now they get they bring whittled down some of that complex it's really interest interesting for the developers because from a perspective they're going to be asked to bring these traditional virtual machines into containers in the old world they have to go to a VMware front-end to do that then they have to come over here to a route to a to a rev or rel front-end to do it now they can just bring their VM with tools over work on it split it up into containers and deploy it it's it's its efficiency adds at its best and shift without any effort without any effort really how about the impact of the customers because this is to me that the big money moment because that means an enterprise can actually progress and accelerate their digital transformation or whatever they got going on to a new architecture a new internet infrastructure we hear things like Network effect decentralized storage with with blockchain new capabilities that aren't measured by traditional older stacks that we've seen an e-commerce DNS and other things so a shifts happening the shifts have a cloud scale I say synchronous the pile are these cars with a scalable whole new way let's see what does that mean for customers what it means for customers is two things that are important the shift is happening you're getting tools and you're getting tools and platforms to make that shift more seamless and you know I'd love to say it's all red head engineers that are giving you this but the reason why it's moving so fast is because it's open so the innovation comes from anywhere it's way too big of a problem for any one customer to solve where we're just helping our customers consume it that's one thing but I think the other thing is important is that's important is not every application is going to be suited to go to a container based application so because it's all on that rel common layer our customers can still have one operating environment and have have compatibility as they do the shift but still keep their business going over here maybe forever these apps may never come off a bare-metal for example Paul I wanted to talk a little bit about Red Hat scope inside IT I love the the connection that between you know the container layer that is just Linux but and also the standards layer but you know now that we're up at threat you know with the with open shift and with multi cloud you know global huge scale operation there's a lot there's a lot more involved right cloud layout level ops is you now at Red Hat is involved with with process and and culture and you have a lot more than just you have a lot more that you're involved in helping IT with than just a Linux and some and connection to the back to the machine so can you talk a little bit about about what you're trying to do with the customer great it's a great point then when I started with a company 17 years ago we weren't talking to CIOs in fact the CIOs we were in that we were coming in the back door the operations people were bringing Linux in the back door and they the CIOs didn't even know it was run in there and but now as you said we're CIOs are trying to figure out how does public cloud fit into my IT environment how does a multiple public cloud fit in out of containers fit in what do I do with my older applications where there re architecting that's at the cio level now you know they're having to re architecture architect for the next generation computing so we've had to build services around that we have labs we have innovation labs where we bring our customers in and work with them and help them you know figure out and help them map out where they're going for the first time we actually I've had cut many customers tell me so is this is the with openshift it's the first time I've got my developers in my Ops people in the same room and we've facilitated that discussion because no one's right it's gotta be one one motion and so that's that's the interesting part for us we've really moved up the chain and our customer base because we're almost a consultative sale now to help them get to the next generation talk about the enabling aspect of this because I referenced tcp/ip and HTTP but now if you go forward and say okay we're gonna have this new environment it's not just about redheads by Linux it's about the operating system which you guys obviously offer for free and then have services around it and have stopped software how is Linux with the new capability of open shift and standards like kubernetes with containers how in your opinion is that an enabling an opportunity for ecosystem new startups and enterprises themselves because we see if this happens and continues to happen oh yeah it's going to be a new names gonna come out of the woodwork new startups gonna happen you see you see it every day I mean you wouldn't do a start-up today that wasn't software wise it wasn't based on Linux and and and that's why in all the innovation today because all the innovation today is based on Linux you know one of the things we and that we released last week a cube con is I don't know if you saw it or not we released a kubernetes SDK and it can track or OS it couldn't came with the core OS guys we put that out into the community it's really an SDK for ISVs and software but vendors to build into the api's of kubernetes in an open way so that once they get out into the commercial world they're ready that's how significant we all think that kubernetes is going to be i we think that's where the services are going to hang in the infrastructure but but having said that I think it also tells you that you know the impact that these open technologies are having on the future I wanna get into the chorus in a minute but I want to ask you about the white spaces so if someone who's that in charge of the troops inside Red Hat products and technologies where's the white space opportunities that people can dig in and and build out innovation around this major shift that you guys are on this wave where's the opportunity for the channel partners the integrators globe last night's developers anyone where's the key areas I mean with our platforms of open shift and OpenStack we have we have certified entry points via api's in storage networking management so we've got hybrid management but certainly we don't think we're gonna do everything in management by any stretch we have it we have a set of api's from management partners to plug in and by the way what I tell my my management R&D folks no hidden api same api's we use they use so so storage is another area new storage solutions networking certainly AI is one of the areas one of the things we showcased here was AI permeating through our entire product line I don't know if you saw the face recognition demo out there but it was it was pretty cool in and even if you want to consume that AI through one of the cloud providers we can pass you straight through from openshift to consume it that way as well on automation I want to get your thoughts on something we've talked a few days ago here on the cube was automation is great so let's give an example I'm automating a service you know if it's a coop with kubernetes and containers and as a memory leak right and every boots but automates I don't know so you got to have a new level of instrumentation down at the code level how do you see that playing out because now we got to be smarter about what's working and not working because I might not never know just reboots intermittently give me some mystery was a memory link could be something else but but that's so this is one of the places where using AI so we've been we've been our first stint with AI came out of our support group so we've been supporting Linux and open source for 25 years got a massive database of what failures were what the fixes were we started using AI in a support group to point our reps at a particular article based symptoms that they were hearing from our we realized we had about an 80% hit rate on you know on getting to our reps to the right to the right article so now we've built that into the products and so we use that AI like for example OpenShift IO which is at one of our developer platforms developers trying to link in a library we can tell them you know what there's a new there's a newer version of that library you know what that library has a security flaw in and at this line of code maybe you want to consider using another one but it's from our years and years of doing this that we're building that day database I mean oai is only so good as the data that you fed it and so have a certain level of granularity down to do you do it and then also ai it also is a reason why all our services are now on open shift because you're absolutely right if I've got a raw JBoss service running on raw Amazon I can't instrument that underneath because Amazon's got that layer closed if I have open shifts there and it's in the infrastructure is open shift even running in Amazon or sure anywhere we can now instrument that to look at some of the things we need to look at to recognize an event a week or or whatever Paul talk about their journey with kora West obviously we've been super excited by that we've been following Korres from the beginning great technical team pure open-source guys and in that container part of the evolution in time everyone's trying to force a business model and you're really hard to force a business model is something that too early or might not even be relevant to build the business around it might be a feature not a company kind of thing so you guys put a big price tag on them sizable chunk of cash how did it all play out you guys just like hey wow we're gonna we wait like these guys they're super technical meeting of the minds and then how that has fit in from a product and technology stand a little bit a little of all of that of course the benefit of being you know having the open source development in in your DNA as we knew them all right so we knew how good they were because they we work our guys work with them every day so that was something when they decided early on like us to go to kubernetes they became a big part of the of the community of kubernetes in our model from day one you can't be an open-source provider if you're not strong in the upstream community because how can you affect what your customers are asking you to do if you and effect upstream they were big in the upstream big and kubernetes and so at that point we that's what we just said they had done some interesting things that we hadn't got to they did a lot of the automation they were doing over-the-air updates of the container platforms a week which we hadn't got to yet they had a really good following in the community so we decided you know we paid a we paid a hefty price but at this stage of the game we really feel that we took an early bit in kubernetes we really feel that that's gonna be the future in containers if there's gonna be a place a place that you pay maybe a little more this is the place well Paul I think another example is ansible a year or two back right and that's been a remained a huge success and I can say you haven't messed it up right and it's it's it's been powerful accomplished well most acquisitions you know and in end in tears so it seems like RedHat seems to be good at this kind of an open source acquisition we we get to interview them for two years before we bring them in based on well how we work in the community but you know we're very where we're bringing in people I don't I hate to say the word M&A or acquisition I just hate that word because we're just joining forces here you know it just took a a big check to do it yeah and you guys have the business model kneel down this is good was good for court at the time for them to they didn't have to worry about having to figure out a go to market and monetize right an upstream presence which was very valuable and then trying to shoehorn a business all around it and which is difficult companies died doing it yeah I mean I can't think of many that have been that successful at it I mean it's a hard thing to do I mean look we've had a great advantage you know we've had rail in the market for 16 years and it built a base for us I'm not gonna try to I'm not gonna try to kid you on that and it's the it's the Linux base that everything's getting built around and so we just keep those those principles we've used for the last 16 years we stay true to weak true to them we could not do a proprietary piece of software now if our lives depended on it that's the DNA well how do you handle the growth you get hiring new people - that's a challenge we've been we were talking to folks about on your team and across RedHat around hiring people and and you got to maintain that eco so you have to maintain that DNA way how do you guys do that what's the is there like a special three three day you know hypnotic class a you know this is how we do it I have to tell you it's a bit easier on the engineering side because you know it's typically engineers that have been working in the community etc but you know our business unit side and other pieces where people have been coming out of big companies and they're used to a hierarchical environment we really take that into account in the interview process I'll be frank not everyone makes it through I mean RedHat is you know titles really don't matter a ringlet company yeah totally engineering as all should be by the way if biased opinion fit okay so great to have you on thanks for spending the time I know you're super busy a couple questions before we wrap up what are you most proud of as you look back now I mean someone again it's almost hindsight's 2020 looks obvious these calls but you know I interviewed Diane at OpenStack many years ago took a lot of heat for that kubernetes movement people weren't it wasn't obvious to a lot of people at that time the kubernetes bet you guys make good bets looking back what are you most proud of that's most significant or or you think people should know well those were that was a seminal moment in redhead history that decision what take us through some of the key milestones in your opinion the for the first one there's probably three or four the first one was gonna Ralph because you have to understand what we did we were in we were a completely retail when I joined the company with 50 million dollars in revenue losing two hundred and so we had a retail product we stopped it to go to route literally literally stop the product bet the company move second one was JBoss we were about 300 million in revenue we paid 425 million for JBoss now that was a big one the third one you might not recognize this one moving from Xen to KVM because Xen was going off down the the VC world trying to figure out how to monetize as a company somebody in Israel came up with a with a better model with KVM the rest of the industry was on Zen we said as a single player we're going this way that was a big bet that I don't even know we recognized the significance of at the time and in kubernetes as I said we pivoted on that in 2012 or so and I've got a lot of R&D money in that and paying on what made you go to kubernetes just curious was the has the Borg success how software is being done at Google was it the role of containers did you guys have that foresight at that time saying containers gonna have a critical role we don't want to screw that up we can bring this in we're looking at from a stack perspective or was it more of a future scenario it was a lot of it was its its heritage out of Borg and knowing the talent in Google and engineering and we talked to we had we had many many discussions we all we continually do with those guys so I think it was mostly a technical decision and what we said was at that point putting our weight behind it we just need to make the community successful so I mean we quickly figure with us in Google it was a it was a fairly good bad not as sure bet but a good bet and that's what made us go there it was really it was really a technology decision possible final question as we wrap up for the folks watching who couldn't make it here in San Francisco for Red Hat summit 2018 what's the big takeaway what's the present technology what's the North Star for you and your team and what are you guys putting as a priority what's the focus I think I think the takeaway from here is you know I think it's I think it's a pretty solid couple things are really solid it's going to be the future is going to be open source period end of story especially in the infrastructure and application development world third thing is hybrid cloud is the model it's the only practical way not every application is moving to one public cloud tomorrow and the third thing is for Red Hat that's the architecture that we build around every day we guide what are what products we build what M&A we do everything we do is around that model and open if I see a centerpiece of all the piece without all that coming thank you for coming on president of Protestant technology at Red Hat I'm John ferry with John Moyer stay with us for more live covers our third day of three days of live coverage here out in the open like open source we're doing our share bringing you the content you right back with more after this short break you

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat welcome back everyone we're here live in San Francisco for the Red Hat summit 2018 events the cubes exclusive coverage I'm John for the coast of the Q with John Troy you're my Coast analyst as we blues co-founder of tech reckoning advisory and Community Development firm meniscus is ranked at Rangachari vice president general manager Red Hat storage for you to see you again welcome back to the cube thank you thank you invited me again so Steve a lot they said storage is where all the action is with wellness data to be stored somewhere with the cloud yeah it's still important you guys have a new concept yeah on storage yeah I'm storage what is the unstirred you know I think essentially when we got into the storage business the status quo was your traditional storage mainframe so wheeling a piece of gear and it's to scale up and have things workloads running there but with the movement towards cloud especially with hybrid cloud where you really can't take a physical box and move it into a public cloud and in the last year or so with containers the common theme that's emerging is things like agility things like scale things like almost having ubiquitous storage all around the place is becoming more and more important so our thought is it almost turns a storage the phenomenal storage industry upside down on its head because the things that people cared about decade ago on the workloads are no longer relevant or less relevant than where they are today so and you know it seems to be people seem to get it so we're pretty I mean we've seen the strain on servers server less storage less so in a way this the recent resource pool is not just you know a box and provision the LUNs more like okay I need storage exact a button I don't care where it comes from is that we're kind of getting to somebody that's exactly what it is right I think in a in a different way right one of the customers said I want storage to be everywhere but nowhere right in that they want storage to be a pervasive but it has to be invisible so they don't have to worry about things like zoning and LAN masking on one piece hardware and do the same thing with twenty other pieces what our solution offers offers is truly a scalable storage platform that's running on any kind of footprint physical virtual private a public cloud but it's a common user experience across all these different footprints and that's why and the other part of this thing which is also different is yes it does appeal to the storage admins but more importantly as you become as organizations of all the cloud architects and DevOps know what they care about is like I want storage to be as invisible as possible but yet I want to make the devil developers more and more productive so I think we are I feel really right track in appealing to how storage needs to be viewed it's a no brainer in my mind if you're DevOps you want to go total cloud horizontally scalable you need gel apps stores just to be available programmable all that's great stuff question I have for you is what's the impact of customers who have been buying boxes for decades so what's the impact of them with Red Hat so I'm still gonna need boxes and still gonna put them somewhere and so it's an on-prem cloud operation so I still need storage bits cloud obviously those guys have their own storage but I mean but you still gotta plug it in and put storage in sure what's the impact of the customer well I think they I mean we do we are practical enough and we rarely realize that no customer is gonna pull the plug one day and move on to the next infrastructure what we are seeing more and more is as those new workloads which are dramatically different the previous workloads as they come into play then they have to rethink how they develop deploy provisioned storage infrastructure so that's where we come in so it's not about in either/or it's about how do you are meant your existing storage infrastructure but think about it in a modern way think about how you can future-proof your architectures so that it scales so that's the way we think about it wrong how should people be thinking about storage at different levels of the architecture there's actually a lot of storage here there's been a lot of sessions and the ecosystem expo there's a lot of storage providers but you've got the we've been talking a lot about open shift and an open shift on OpenStack here at the show this is this year so if you're at the OpenStack lair versus on the open shift layer how should you be thinking about storage and and what and what products are plugging in at those layers yes so you know think with OpenShift a couple of days ago earlier this week we announced our 150 customers we're actually deploying our product which is called containing nearly storage CNS for short and what that does is it enables it's essentially the storage infrastructure for open shaft so wherever open ship goes the storage footprint follows along whether you're running it on Prem on top of virtualized infrastructure or you're running any of these public clouds and the most interesting part of that is you know getting back to the earlier conversation we try to make it as invisible as possible so you we as vendors don't have to say you've got to deploy it here so make it as invisible as possible and as seamless as possible now with OpenStack it's a different set of experience because that's kind of infrastructure up right and the advantage for us is if you look at the OpenStack community in general almost 70% of the OpenStack community in one way shape or form uses a safe project so it's almost become I wouldn't call it almost de facto standard on how people manage the storage infrastructure with an open stack but even there the cardinal rules are still the same which is when they think about spinning up a machine the storage has to be attached automatically to it and then scale as their computer in the storage infrastructure scales and this the scale is the question we're living in a new era of cloud economics scale is key and we here the customers here Red Hat Red Hat's customers talking about things like horizontally scalable asynchronous micro sets of micro services levels of granularity this is the programmable new fabric that is a new infrastructure of the Internet you know 30 year old statuses from e-commerce DNS they're you know gonna be abstracted away with a new abstraction layer yes hello opens yes hello you know new things kubernetes and in containers so with that being said there's an opportunity yes so when you that's kind of like the state of the yard now but you're welcome to an enterprise like what's kubernetes again so you got some enterprises are learning about kubernetes and it's good news for them learning about containers where they don't have to throw away anything you just containerize it how is that impacting the classic definition of software-defined datacenter yeah and software-defined storage because those are the two important trends that have been happening in Software Defined does it accelerate it does it change it a little bit what's your thoughts on those do you know I think it accelerates it and here's why that's a great question right because when you look at organizations especially in the container era right where there are certain companies who are actually I would argue even bypassing you know and building it container first strategy as opposed to a cloud first strategy right so that's that's the way they are thinking about this and when you talk about route through that lens storage essentially is an application as opposed to infrastructure so you have to talk as three or you have to talk whatever protocol it is so it just becomes part and parcel of that so the challenge or what vendors or customers are looking at us is how can you make it as seamless as possible so that they can get the acceleration can happen because a year ago I think nine months ago there was a survey that was done where customers said the top two issues with moved to accelerated move the containers were storage or persistent storage and security well I think we have a firm handle on what we need to do to really help our customers at least address the storage part of that discussion what's up what and what's the make of the use cases right now how many customers are deploying this roughly order of magnitude mean let's go into details but I mean you know you know how's the migration okay the early adopters and in mode now is it fast followers is it the rest of the market I think it's still in the early adoption in the truest definition I think you know using the baseball analogy we're at the top of the first inning right and most of the workloads tend to be new workloads right there are some left cloud native but there's some but as far as the use cases it is you know across the board you know no sequel databases see I see Dee Jenkins type of environment so we surprised vertical centric either because storage your Stora just used by everybody yes there is one layer where there's certain I is free apps that tend to be focused on certain verticals but they happen right by our availability or I ah she might need financial services or stretch clusters and all those kinds of things okay cool I love the concept of unstitch but that does leave in the cold a little bit the people that we used to call storage admins right so now multi cloud hybrid cloud a lot of examples and blood demonstration operators operators done does the job of the storage the person you who used to be in charge of storage it seems like that that changes now even with unstitch a lot of automation a lot of fabric a lot of pooling does it itself but you still are on a lot of different clouds and things like that how do you how are you talking to customers about that so you know I think one of the I think the term that people have started to use as generalists right if you look at it you know five years ago or seven years ago you had a silo of systems administrators storage administrators and network administrators now the whole vertical store the silos have been in a way normalized so now you have a pool of people might be the major is in storage but the minor is a networking by the major isn't compute their minor is in storage so it really helped her all the organizations that we talked to now they say look I have a collective pool that can help me where I need to get to so this plays really well what about that audience absolutely it does and the hybrid cloud equation in your thoughts there cuz lastly we'll keep on did a great piece of research on true private cloud and there and they are looking for more folks to first rating the next set of surveys so I'd love to introduce you to the Peter verse over there but the point is was true private cloud report showed that on-premise cloud if occasion whatever you want to call it action was much higher and growing it's not so much on premise has been dying or being reduced its transitioning to on-premise cloud operations which is essentially cloud it's a fat edge or you know and the cloud is that what is the cloud so you're seeing still a lot of work being done on premises where there we recasting reimagining cloud so how is that impacting the hybrid cloud because I've been cause it's not really a product it's a yes it's a journey it's a connection between two clouds so storage data the data plane control planes are all kind of like evolving your thoughts on multi cloud and as hybrid starts to accelerate that's the path I'll see open shift but your thoughts on so the I think the way we think about this right is hybrid cloud it's not so much that everything is running on app I absolutely agree with the research right but the customers that we talk to they are still building the foundational business on I got a you know keep the private cloud make it as seamless and as efficient as possible but there are certain workloads that lend themselves well to running on a public cloud now it's not so much as a disjointed these two universes never talk to each other it's how do we the Red Hat try to bring the two together so the user experience you almost in a way try to minimize where it actually runs right now so that's that's an open shift is a classic example of that right where you're running it on Prem but you're also running on these public clouds if certain workloads that are great on a public cloud an example of that is one of the largest airports and Europe so they use OpenShift on Prem but they also use OpenShift on a couple of other public clouds and our CNS product which is a continuous tourist product run runs along all those three environments so to the end-user it's essentially a seamless experience and that's you know as the journey unfolds I think that's what you're going to see more and more is about how do we start to know that the storage foundation is built how do we start to exposed some data services that can run across all these different that's gonna be killer so here's an update in the business how's the business what's the road map looked like what are the things that you guys are working on what's the priorities so business is like we announced on Monday 150 net new customers over the last 12 months and that's just on one specific strategic imperative which is containing native storage or help the customers with a container journey besides that I think there are two other pillars we are focused on one is around hybrid cloud right which is how do you really provide the best storage substrate for customers building private clouds and hybrid clouds and the third part is hyperconvergence because I think what our customers are asking for is they've seen the power of hyperconvergence but they want an open-source variant of hyperconvergence for their environment and stay tuned on that front we got some exciting stuff going on and we'll keep you folks updated on the final question what's going on the show here for you what's notable but the folks that are watching who couldn't make it here what's the vibe what's the hall way conversation what's the customer conversate with steer some color of what's happening here at breadhead summit here in san francisco so a lot of things but then I wish we had time but I know we're short of time here but the few things I want to highlight one is all the technology demos that we did yesterday today and some in the tomorrow or tomorrow timeframe you'll see are containing native storage or a storage portfolio be an integral part of every one of the teams that we are talking about so that's you know and we've got very positive feedback on that we have over two dozen text sessions and my understanding is I don't go to those my understandings they've all been standing room only so there is definite customer interest in where we are what we're doing so we this show has been awesome so for us yeah storage is the gift that keeps on giving now it's going to be storage less than unstirred whatever word you want I like storage list because it sounds like server list which doesn't mean anything either but it sounds good but it's a full of resource gratulations I play it's a hot area certainly having programmable infrastructure means better development time and certainly making it you know elastic and making it horizontally scalable is the dream we all want to get to fast so be there more live coverage bringing you all the action here in the in the open here at Moscone you're in the mill the floors the cube coverage of Red Hat Summer 2018 I'm John Fourier with John Troy your stay with us we back with more after this short break thanks John

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat okay welcome back everyone live here in San Francisco California at Moscone West is the cubes exclusive coverage of Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John for your Cohoes with my co Sam John Troy co-founder of tech reckoning and as an analyst firm and community development advisory a next guests a star meter senior manager community leads at Red Hat welcome to the cube good to see you again so obviously the success of open source is grounded in community we'd love talking about community and there's a lot of new things happening new dynamics that are somewhat similar to us in the past but a new generation is coming into open source it's clear by the growth I mean go to any any event and you know just that the Linux Foundation event Jim's daylan's or is it to slide out exponential growth more code coming in so you know give to trot out all the ethos contribute be part of a project and so that the lines are still there but it's evolving and what's your thoughts on on it as it grows I'm looking at the big ecosystem here growing at Red Hat more contributors more projects more products yeah we definitely have the communities are growing and we have more participation and all the projects across the board and I think one of the things that's interesting is the the projects that we're working on are things that one person can't develop or use all on their own and we're talking like software-defined storage or talking OpenStack big solutions and so companies are paying people to work on them and I think over the last 10 years that's been the really big difference like our shares with Dirk at VM was heading up all their open sources and we just didn't Copenhagen and he was reiterating and reminding me because I found myself falling in the trap and a lot of new companies that come into open source I am gonna I'm gonna get people involved in a product I'm gonna join that project so we can commercialize the project versus commercialize their offering and being part of our project so Dirk when I were talking and he was emphasizing languages everything language defines behavior and that the project is an open contributed project on it the product that's commercialized is different and this is not new to read that but it's worth just reeling some of the language as new people come in your thoughts on this yeah so Red Hat we're really clear on what's upstream what's the open source version that everyone is working on together and then what's the version that we're supporting for our customers they have the same codebase they have the same features but the upstream version we call a project and the downstream version we call a product and sometimes they're even branded differently for example manage IQ is the upstream project in cloud forms Red Hat cloud forms is the downstream product and that's where the action is for Red Hat to to commercialize and or productize alright Lord and get all around it but then they contribute everything backups everything's developed upstream so you and you and the other community managers are you at Red Hat it's a little bit different right open source the open source way and open source ethos so you do have a you know these open source communities as well as user communities are you involved with both I mean how do you how do you meld the two how do you differentiate the two you know in the context of Red Hat if I'm a Red Hat customer yes so they're all the same or overlapping so usually you'll have a core group of contributors who maybe some maybe Red Hat employees some may work at another company that either a user company or a partner company some may be individuals working on it and it's kind of your core base but then you have like people that that are participating watching very carefully may be contributing once in a while that are watching that and then you have users and so they're not separate groups of people they're overlapping groups of people that's great the in terms of community here at the show right once you have community that's that's 365 right you come you come to an event and it's like kind of like homecoming so how has the experience been this year for you at Red Hat summit with the Red Hat community people coming together you know a community activities that sort of thing it's it's a really great place to bring people together so that we have all of our customers we have contributors and everyone is on the floor talking so like we're in community central here the floor and our booth has been full of people all day long even when they announce that it's closing there's still people around and talking and we have everything from customer events where we talk to customers about how we work on an upstream - actually that we've had contributor meetups where everyone gets together and meets all their fellow contributors in person how do you guys handle the growth because you know with with growth you have still new ideas coming in so you want to keep an open inclusive environment is there any new things you guys are doing they make sure all the best ideas are being surfaced up or is it the same program seems to think keep going that that way I think I think the best projects evolve over time so we're always looking at the governance of our projects and does it fit where that project is right now and so when a project first starts out it might have a benevolent dictator and then later when it has more contributors and more companies involved you might have even might evolve to a board or to a technical group so for example Gluster we just graduated to a group of maintainer x' that make decisions as opposed to just a project lead is there like a norm or is there a certain pattern that emerges for the puck the programs up I mean the project's having a certain format that you seen that works best or this is more ad hoc based on who's involved it's a little ad hoc but I think most of them start with a very strong personality who has a vision and so a lot of them start either as benevolent dictators or as you know someone who's the main project lead and then as they grow bigger over time you end up with more of a voting member to board of directors Stiles to like Apache and then now today there's a lot of foundations involved to write some some things are are in the Red Hat orbit more more closely others we you know like we were just at KU con so the all the Linux Foundation different the for instance the kubernetes the CN CF as well as stuff like you know the Cloud Foundry and OpenStack foundation so I mean can you talk a little bit about the role of foundations now in modern community in socially open-source yeah I think it's it's part of this evolution from all the contributors we're working as individuals which they still are two companies being able to to pay for people to work on these projects and so the companies want to not just give people time to these projects they also want to donate money and pull their resources to do joint marketing or to push kubernetes forward and so organizations like the CNCs the Linux Foundation enable those companies to work together more effectively if done a good job of balancing I mean they got a lot of logos I mean a lot of people paying them money so there's a commercial aspect but they've been very transparent about that trying to create a great core community and they've separated the technical steering committee from the membership which is smart most the foundations are really good about leaving the technical steering committee to work as it's worked well in open-source and then having the company has pulled their money for for marketing or for filling in the holes where they're not getting volunteers start go ahead well story I just wanted to extend the governance conversation a little bit to the culture as well the I mean we're we're in an interesting place again 2018 in our bigger culture those of us who've been involved in online culture and online communities we know the ways these things can go wrong and we've seen it you know how do you as an individual and your team develop and foster a inclusive and participatory culture in your in the communities of Red Hat I think he said we've all seen things go wrong but I think we also have a lot of experience now about how to foster the culture that we would like and how to include people and so you're seeing a lot more efforts like most online communities are pretty nice places to hang out these days and you're seeing a lot of effort to make sure there's code of conduct for the projects that there's kind of conduct for the events that people are welcome there's a diversity event tomorrow here and so I think we're seeing a lot more inclusiveness and a real effort to bring people in you guys attract a younger demographic we were talking earlier with Denise and because it's open source you got academic you could go as high school is seeing everything from robotics clubs - you know coding early on so you get the redheads getting the mirth for her Li and so she made the kind we're gonna grow our own talent so you know kind of a tongue-in-cheek but you guys have access to a lot of the younger developers any commentary on you know the orientation shop see their loved mission-driven act the younger folks love mission driven and tech but is there any kind of a new school kind of concepts you seen coming from the young guns that are coming up through the ranks so I recently had a chance to speak to a classroom full of college students and that was you really impressed like they knew what open source was they were familiar with licenses and they all wanted to like make their app or make money but they were really focused on humanitarian causes at the same time and so as you really impressed with that I want to do well in my career but I want to make a difference in the world in a better place on that I was really exciting the safe and now more than ever you with a global footprint we just had UNICEF on earlier here Red Hat labs doing some pretty cool things around you know code for good so I think that's cool the challenge we're seeing is is that okay as enterprises come in the continued balance has always been the case you don't want the big one vendor coming in for on their weight around and we're seeing like even with Java you know which is Oracle Java emails Oracle seeing movement that's kind of opening up so it seems the business model seems to be pretty clear opens winning we certainly think so at Red Hat the best model is to be open what's it like to work here it's a really awesome place to work I love all the people that I work with you know everyone red hat really takes the open-source culture not just to its codebase but also to the culture that it has within the organization and decisions are made openly discussed openly everyone gets input everyone doesn't always get to a vote but everyone gets to to have a say and it's listen to it it's a great place to work technical culture as well I'll see techies very technical - as the as the ecosystem grows right there's obviously a lot more participants in the community and so if a company wants to get involved either say like in the kubernetes community or in the openshift community you know what's the right way for a company to come in and participate in that kind of a community and and maybe what are some wrong ways if a company wants to get involved in the community I think the first thing they do is find them online right are they on IRC talking are they on flack talking join the mailing list go to whatever events are local to you your local meetups go to the big events if you can and just put people on it people that know what you're trying to do with it and can contribute you know either with getting started documentation or with bug reports yeah I think it does have to come down to the people you have to send actual people and it can't be some sort of corporate motion and in some ways community is all about people and making connections it's absolutely about people I start talk about your experience this year right had somehow see the numbers are bigger they're getting great the company's being rate reviews from financial analysts open ship has been very popular some of the obviously this is what kubernetes has been phenomenal o open stacks got a bunch of life into it you seen separation clear visibility now on how things are kind of clicking together on the app side core OS is in it's just interesting right is there it heads kind of going to a home of the level what's the conversations like here inside the hall people who aren't here watching didn't have a chance to come what's what's the main conversations the chatter what's been the focus in the community central booth I think the focus has been on how things work together like how our different products work together and how you can use them together as well as like how do I follow along like how do I participate if I want to know where our do is going where do I go to to be part of it what's the coolest thing you've heard here at the show and you could share story oh the coolest thing I've heard I don't know if I have a moment but it's just been all the conversations and like the fact that there's people flowing through all the time it's like standing room only in the booth because people want to talk there's a lot of action a lot of face-to-face engagement all right I do have a stir so we had um we taught these uh these red hat when she Boston and taught these middle school girls how to make cameras that open the hardware and open-source software has anyone talked to you about this no and so they made these cameras and then we flew a couple of them out here and they taught a group of people here at the events on Monday how to make so these 11 year olds twelve year olds taught them how to make cameras how to open hardware and open-source software and I was out talking to one of them about what was different about teaching it that that was probably my favorite moment it's hard to be teacher when yeah you got em together know the material yeah but that's paying it forward that's the open sore thief ethos yeah that's we're talking about sorry thanks for coming on the cube and sharing good to see you again congratulations on all the success and again the community is buzzing you guys are doing great and exciting so thanks for coming on and sharing appreciate it thanks for having me live cube coverage here in San Francisco for Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John Frusciante for stay with us day 2 coverage continues for three days of coverage after this short break be right back [Music]

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat okay welcome back everyone would live here in San Francisco California the Moscone West for the cubes exclusive coverage of Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John for the co-host of the cube was my closest week analyst John Troy a co-founder of tech reckoning advisory and Community Development firm our next two guests is erica kochi co-founder of unicef innovation the United Nations Children's Fund and Mike Walker director of open innovation labs at Red Hat welcome to the cube thanks for coming joining us thanks love this story so Erica take a minute to talk about what you're working on at UNICEF you guys doing a lot of great stuff you got the relationship with Red Hat innovation labs but you doing some pretty amazing things take them into explain what you're doing at UNICEF some of the projects and what we're going to talk about here with the school and the magic fox all the greatness sure so UNICEF innovation essentially what we do is take technology and apply it to the problems facing children around the world and we do that in a variety of ways I think the things that we're probably most most known for is our work in mobile technology to connect frontline health workers and young people to to governments and have let them have a say in what's happening in in you know the halls of government and we have a program called you report which has five million young people from all over the world who are talking directly to their government representatives they need that now more than ever we certainly do yeah so open source obviously with red hat big shared vision talk about the shared mission like what's going on but there where's the connection I was the open source was great for society we've seen the benefits all around the world how is this translating for you guys yeah so I've been at Red Hat for a while and obviously we're the world's largest open source enterprise open source software company and I as a consultant been able to see Red Hat open source software used for many different purposes in every vertical you can think of but this one was really unique because we found a natural partnership I think between some of UNICEF innovations vision to use open source and open principles for maximum impact for good and so when I learned about innovation at UNICEF really by chance I just ran into a colleague at a meeting in New York and and she gave me a few words about it I said this is incredible because we can leverage all of what we learned at Red Hat our knowledge of open source to impact people and culture and not just for technical reasons and and partnered with UNICEF to make maximum social impact for children that need it most and you got red house key a technology company a lot of smart people there but with open source there's been a DNA in your bloodstream of the company around democratization and now we're out in the open with everyone online and everything's good this is a democratization piece talk about some of that the things that you guys are doing with red hat what specifically are you celebrating together here so we had a great collaboration with with Red Hat there at their labs program which really took a look at our challenge of using big data to read or understand what's happening on the ground especially in schools in countries that are either coming out of emergencies or have limited access to a lot of the parts of the country and so we layered satellite imagery information on poverty other sets of data you can really get a clear picture about where we should be allocating our resources and how we should be planning for emergencies and this collaboration just just finished up a couple days ago right and it's really been great what's some of the impact give an example of some of the use cases so actually saving time money will be things around yeah what what are some of the impact things that you see with this project what are some of the things a lot of countries right now are thinking about how they can connect all of their schools and make sure all of it their schools are online and give children this access to information that's really essential to to thrive in the world of today and tomorrow and if you don't know where your schools are and you don't know if they're connected or not and you can't see you know what else is happening it's in the socio-economic way in those areas it's really hard to figure out what to do and where to start so we're really just at the beginning of that process to try to connect every school in the world and we're at the moment we're trying to lay the groundwork to understand where we're at and where we need a level of insight you're providing once you connect the schools you can get people can know what to do and how to align with what's happening it's interesting I was just in Puerto Rico a couple weeks ago and the young kids there have self formed their own blockchain network between the schools and they're teaching themselves how to program because they recognize that to get out of their world and the mess that they're challenging through now post-hurricane they want to participate in the new economy so as someone not knowing that if I know I could help you're kind of providing a window into that kind of dynamic where is that kind of the use case is that how it's working so it's but participation and contribution is absolutely participation is key you know for young people and they need to it like really learn how to acquire the skills that they're gonna need to you know become successful productive adults in the future and school is you know one of the entry points to do that so that's really important and everyone loves that - yeah I'm kind of curious about the structure of the project today in the keynote you know Jim why does she start us off by saying well you know we can't plan everything we've got to be a little bit more agile here's a framework for how to how to really approach problems when we really don't know what the outcome or even what we're gonna hit so can you talk a little bit maybe about the structure of the of the process and did you know did you start with a blank piece of paper or do you know how did how did you figure out the pathway to the ultimate outcome here yeah I can take it first um that's a great question because at labs we experiment with ways to get fast feedback and really in a very short amount of time usually one to three months and a very limited amount of funds how can we make maximum impact using open technologies and open practices so the project was already in progress like most IT projects are right Gardi been some research we have data scientists to work with and one of the first things we did was really talk about really our concerns and fears about how we might work together using an exercise called how might we we kind of came together and said how might we solve this problem or that problem and just got it out on the table one of the aspects that I think work really is dedicating a small team in a residency style engagement where we worked off premise so Red Hatters left their office UNICEF folks left their office we came together in akola works based in New York City that was fairly convenient and you know we all focused on a tough problem and we decided really early on that in order to make sure that this problem actually would be usable and in the hands of end users in the field across the world we needed to get face to face so we made a trip to Latin America to work with a UNICEF field office to get fast feet up feedback on prototypes and that helped us adjust what we ended up shipping as the product at the end of the two months cycle Erika how was the outcome for you and your game it's great I think you know one of the things that really aligns RedHat and UNICEF is not just a commitment to open source and the values around that but also this agile methodology I think that you know to really move something a product forward or sort of a program forward you need to step away from the daily part of life you know and move away from the the email and the connection to the laptop and the phone and I think we were able to do that I also think that you need to ground truth things and so that you know that trip to the field and to really understand the context and the problems that that people are facing is is completely critical to success and that's like agile programming you kind of gotta get get out in the front lines not ask about the data I'm really intrigued so you got multiple data sources coming in love the satellite thing you're changing lives but you're saving lives too is your talk about you may name real-time efforts here what's the data science thing what's the tech behind I mean is it ingesting data as a third party data Z how does it work I mean can you share some some of the mechanics on the date of data science piece er yeah I think there's probably a lot we can talk about I could talk about data all day love data but some of the things that I think were fundamentally really exciting about this project and about what UNICEF innovation has done so let's take for example Facebook they have a whole lot of data but that's one company and it's sort of one lens to the world right it's it's quite broad and we get a lot of information but it's one company what UNICEF innovation has done is found ways to partner with private and public companies and private and public data sources in a way that maintains the security and integrity of that data so that it's not exposing proprietary information but they've been able to create those that community essentially that's willing to share information to solve a really tough challenge for social good and so we have actually a really wide variety of data at our disposal and our job was to create a sandbox that allow data scientists to really both proactively plan for things that might happen and reactively plan when events occur when we don't even know what that event might be so you know I like to think back to Jim Whitehurst's speech last year at summit where I said planning is dead we've got to try learn and modify I think that's exactly what we aim to build a platform that you know hasn't been planned for any one event or action but provides the flexibility for data scientists to try experiment pull different data together learn from it sharing Maps we integrated geospatial data and maps to be able to pass this along quickly and then modify based on the results so we can more quickly achieve something with the greatest impact that's awesome yeah so for example if you take you know you take like for example epidemics right so many factors are so many different types of data are needed to really understand what's happening in an epidemic for example take Zika you have temperature right mosquitos only breed at a certain at a certain temperature you have poverty or which really indicates standing water where mosquitoes can breed you have socioeconomic factors so it does the house more likely does it have mosquito screens or not and then you have the social right what are people talking about what are they concerned about and I think like a really interesting picture emerges when you can start to layer all of these kinds of data and that really helps us see where we should be focusing it's great discovery information using the data to drive kind of we're to look at and we're to focus efforts exactly and also a global footprint right and in previous decades maybe this would have run on a piece with some sort of a proprietary GIS thing or or yeah I'm not even sure right you chip around discs maybe but I mean not not to be too product oriented right built on OpenShift we've seen a whole lot this week right these global footprint you could take it live on any cloud I assume that's a piece of it right at global accessibility now for they out for the the resulting application absolutely and we want to take you know what we've done in one scenario and apply it to many others in many other locations and so being an open source is key for this because we wouldn't be able to do this in other locations are replicated just as easily handed to local folks have them an adapted and/or take it further or have other people work on it whether it's academics other companies us nice I love the structure like how its agile I got a Eric I ought to ask you about this because we're seeing a big trend with open source obviously that's well on its way to becoming it is the standard of doing software but mission driven technology activities aren't just nonprofits anymore you starting to see collaboration the JOBS Act that Obama put in place really set the table for new kind of funding so you've seen a lot more younger people coming in and saying hey you know what I can build it on the cloud and grants aware but the code gets live on right so you seeing a new flywheel around mission driven nonprofits and for-profits a new kind of entrepreneurship culture can you share insight into how this is developer you see a lot of it you have a lot of thoughts on this your them please so I think that you know as technology companies become so much more influential in our lives you know they're not just showing you the news anymore they were they're moving into every aspect of our lives whether it's in our into our homes or even inside our bodies that they're they're occupying as so much more influential role in an individual's life with that comes a tremendous amount of responsibility and I think that while it's not enough to say you should do good because it's the right thing to do I think that employees also really demand it I think that you know and that shift will occur because employees realize that they want to they want to be doing good in the world and if they're gonna be influencing so many people's lives that's really really it's a new citizenship model for the younger generations early Millennials want to work in a company that's not just the profit hungar motive but also there's some dynamics going on with the infrastructure world you look at Facebook as a classic example you know the word weaponizing content has been a bad thing but we've been talking about in the queue there's actually a reverse of that polar opposite which is you can weaponize content for good meaning that all the same principles that do bad things can be used for good things so this is where we started to see a lot more people saying hey let's do more of the fad and punish so the new kind of rules are developing in the society so I find it fascinating and I'm just curious is this known within the societal entrepreneurship culture or what's the what's your view on how to do more how to do better I'm doing a lot of work in what AI is gonna be meaning what's what it's gonna mean for children in the world and you know there are so many opportunities we've been talking about some of them but there are also a lot of risks right what does it mean when your child's best friend is a robot what does that change about our us us you know as human beings and so I think it's you know you have to look at both sides and you have to be very conscious about designing the technology that you want to see in the world that's gonna make the world a good place to live in and I think that there definitely is an awakening and that's going and there's a lot this is a first generation set of problems that social entrepreneurship brings a just society I mean who sets the policy which side of the road the cars drive on or you know there's these new issues that are evolving that I've never been seen before you know cyber bullying - all kinds of things happening so congratulations on all those success so what's the forecast for Red Hat innovation has more of this gonna continue double down on it what are the things do you guys have going on yeah so Labs is growing quite largely we are now live in North America amia and a pack with plans to expand extend to Latin in the future and we're growing quite quickly in terms of our ability to execute I guess you know the labs team is relatively small a small number of specialists but we are all of RedHat so the way we operate is based on what we're trying to achieve together we will look at all of red hat and sometimes even outside of red hat to figure out who we can bring to the table to help solve that problem and so it allows me to work with our engineering with our business units even with our marketing so we brought marketing in to the first meeting not simply because we're creating a marketing event but we realized we need to advertise internally and externally what we build in order to gain adoption it's part of building a community and what I have found is because Labs has an injective that goes beyond you know simply a technological objective we're aiming to change ways of working and to change culture it's really easy to build a lot of interest and adoption among all Red Hatters to bring them together to solve a tough problem a really an interesting facet a lot about labs I know you do these pop-up labs and I think this was what you know you don't make necessarily make people come to you you son can come to them but I think like you said it's important to get outside your your office and your day-to-day for these focused projects you talked a little bit about your approach to yeah so we've learned a lot you know Labs is almost exactly two years old I think we launched in April of 2016 at OpenStack summit and one thing we learned is you know the world is a big place and we can't necessarily have a physical lab location everywhere so we do have first-class facilities in Boston Singapore in London but I would say the large majority of the work efforts we've done to date have been in what we call pop-up labs and what that allows us to do is create that immersion and focus on a tough challenge by getting people out of the office but also provide the ability to go home at the end of the day and have dinner at your home which a lot of people enjoy and from the red head perspective we've got a lot of folks used to travel so we can make that happen meet in the middle and and it's been a good hybrid approach that we end up doing more and more great stuff here actually is my final question for then to take from Jim Whitehouse keynote today how is blockchain changing this open for good economics that's absolutely right and I mean Erika you might want to weigh in as well but I think I love blockchain first of all I love math and I love the science behind it but I love the fact that it was developed in the open it was debated in the open it's radically transparent you can see all of the transactions of anyone in the chain and it's being used in ways that no one ever dreamed of I mean it was meant for a universal currency but you know think about this we might be able to use it as a token system so that we can actually ensure that humanitarian efforts that are done are actually recognized by people that they may not otherwise have funds right someone with very little money can still use so perhaps takers making sure the money gets put to use absolutely and endpoints we have accountability you know we're using it to exchange electronic health records securely and privately with the people that need them and only the people that need them so I don't know where blockchain will be in five years but I am optimistic that I think the mathematics and the fundamental is a blockchain or sound and I think more than anything it's the community that will drive new applications of blockchain and really define and answer that question for you well I know we'll be in New York next week with blockchain for consensus of ennum there's a lot of ents going on we've seen wealthy entrepreneurs donating Bitcoin and aetherium there's a really great project so and a lot of young people love the blockchain and crypto so who knows got to be on that labs we're definitely look you know looking into it and we have a couple experiments around the world that range from trying to do some smart contracts you know in in country environments to taking donations in in blockchain armies Arion cryptocurrencies I think that there are a lot of exciting applications for it in this due to do good space I also think that there's a tremendous amount of hype and you know you really have to ask yourself the key question of like does this need a central trusted Authority or is there one that exists that already is great um and do we need to record every transaction if you can answer those two questions then the other baby going somewhere well great point the other thing I would answer that agree hundred percent and that is is that blockchain and crypto our token economic certainty not the ico scams but is an efficiency heat-seeking missile it it targets efficiencies where there's inefficiencies announced where I see a lot of the action going on and you know efforts and for good are highly inefficient yeah so hey you knows well we'd love blockchain as you can tell we talk about all day long smart contracts token economics thanks for coming on and congratulations on your project thank you you're good to stuff their cube coverage here day two of three days live coverage here in San Francisco the Red Hat summit 2018 moved back after this short break stay with us

from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone this is the cube live in San Francisco Moscone West for coverage of Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John for the co-host of the cube mykos this week as analyst John Schwarz the co-founder of tech reckoning advisory and Community Development firm our next guest is Craig pizzelles right senior vice president application platforms business and portfolio for Red Hat great to see you welcome back to the cube thank you very much John so big-time executive a company is doing well and you guys are growing adding more people every time being successful again an open source another generations upon us a standing on the shoulders of giants you guys have been a business model for Red Hat for many many years rel certainly successful container madness now mainstream kubernetes clear line of sight on what that's doing as an abstraction layer and standard de-facto standard around orchestration the really good tailwind for you guys and the industry absolutely absolutely congratulations and what's your take I mean obviously you got apps now you're good people gonna be building apps system working OpenStack what's what's going on right well there's a lot going on I mean we've we've been very consistent about our strategy and it's finally starting to pay off and come together and I think the mark is starting to realize that we have been talking about hybrid cloud before it was in vogue and you know well over five years ago and so all those pieces come together we've always talked about a story of there are multiple footprints whether it's physical vert traditional virtual private cloud and public cloud and then companies will want to and customers will want to do more than just the four footprints they want to do multi cloud as well so you know we've been very strong on the infrastructure side having Linux as the base and the operational consistency across those footprints in which to build on and then now containers and kubernetes with OpenShift gives us plus that that last leg together to give us that abstraction layer across these multiple footprints to allow hybrid to happen I wanna get your reaction this because we were talking on our intro package around the dynamic we're seeing in today's business landscape and technical landscape open source clearly the business model for software right check kubernetes provide some interoperability and cloud native growth for new applications cloud we're cloud native what are you gonna call it and then you've got legacy applications for the first time don't have to get thrown away to go to the new world you have the ability to containerize write pre-existing applications while bringing a new functionality new infrastructure new software methodologies development architectures modernizing software yeah while maintaining and preserving the life cycle of pre-existing applications great absolutely this is the dynamic that is really a wonderful thing because takes the pressure off absolutely and I think that's unique to Red Hat which is we've always had not only the hybrid cloud story the multi cloud story but the fact that containers allows you to advanced advanced a movement to you know do digital transformation start using micro services etc but you don't need to start over you can take existing applications you can containerize those applications get them into a cloud environment gain those efficiencies operational efficiencies and development efficiencies and then start to also build new applications based on microservices architectures and bring both together some of the other vendors out there may only have a story about well you have to rewrite everything it right or it's only going to be public cloud and you're tied to those public cloud api's I think you know using containers as a methodology and then using orchestration with kubernetes you can have the best of both worlds and we think that's important I wanted to drill down to the stack a little bit more right I think this year maybe even as opposed to last year the cube was that the OpenStack summit and there was a little bit of confused talk about you know containers you know what on what openshift on OpenStack or vice versa the message this this year very clear you know openshift on OpenStack here's the infrastructure don't get confused so we've got those two layers that you lay down but also there's a lot of application services in the Red Hat stack that you all have built out and I think if people were listening closely right there's a multi-year investment in there in things like you know that originated with an application server like JBoss that now actually in 2018 architectural II look very different now that's a set of services that developers can use so maybe I mean can you talk a little bit about I mean that's an example also I'm not throwing everything out but evolving can talk a little bit about the depth of the stack there and and servicing all those various requirements I mean if you look at the stack we're talking about infrastructure services some of those are in things like OpenStack so you know whether it's compute storage networking etc we demonstrated some ability in through kubernetes to provision and orchestrate VMs and so you saw some of that in the demos that we show today but then once you lay down that foundational layer with containers and kubernetes with openshift then we start to build services on top of that we have been building this portfolio of middleware services for some time and so we can provide messaging as a service we can provide integration and ipad services we have something now called Roar which is packaging together a runtime and frameworks to put together inside of OpenShift we have process management and orchestration technologies business process management so all those services are something that developers need and you start adding those now as cloud services and so the other one of the other things that we've also done beginning about two years ago we began a journey for automating the application lifecycle of building application the pipeline capability we did an acquisition of a company called codenvy which is the founders of eclipse CheY the cloud native ide and workspace environment and so now we've now begun shipping openshift i/o to give you that end-to-end capability from beginning your project to writing the code to doing CI CD and managing the full lifecycle so it's all starting to come together for us a big big talk here at the show about kubernetes being kind of dun dun gnu/linux right the new platform that's going to enable a huge amount of innovation but I love that openshift is more than kubernetes a and also that you know as part of this it's it's a it's you know the role of Linux was a bunch of device drivers right and you're and you're organizing on one machine the clap now that we're in cloud right kubernetes is is about operations like you just said about the code lifecycle about all this stuff and all of a sudden yes it yes it's a it's an analogy but but it's much broader than that it's much broader than that one analogy I mean you made the analogy about Linux I mean Linux basically abstracted a number of hardware architectures and gave you a common operating environment in which to run on x86 or even run on a mainframe or run on power now running on arm you know we have looked at and said well there's a similar analogy now having and taking place with containers in kubernetes where you can create an orchestration layer and an abstraction layer across multiple infrastructures and then building app dev services on top of that so that's what's coming together right now so you know we think it's important also to build out the ecosystem so we're providing application development services on top of this you know this abstraction layer we're building tooling and application lifecycle management but we're also bringing in partners so our announcements today with or yesterday with IBM and even Microsoft they're container izing sequel server they're putting it into our container catalog there will be a distribution of that the the the IBM products and the IBM middleware products and so we'd right now in our ecosystem development program we have about 60 is v's already certified already in a container catalog we grade them in terms of their security so you have some confidence we have another pipeline of another two hundred is BS coming in and then also our service broker so bringing in services we made announcements last year with with AWS to bring in some of their services like lambda and other services into the service broker so you see this hybrid world where you have a lot of different application development capabilities both from us and from our on the ecosystem and the service broker technology to help you bridge you know the best of breed services from all these multiple clouds okay I talked about the ecosystem evolution because you're creating an enabling technology capability and new new growth is coming we see that already kind of on the radar how is that gonna change the ecosystem makeup for you guys actually the the container catalog and ISPs what's it gonna look like is V is gonna be developer I mean what how do you guys envision the ecosystem evolving over the ecosystem it obviously is involved most of these you know most of the traditional the ISPs will begin to offer their own services you know they might be hosting them on AWS but they're gonna provide cloud services so they're gonna be exposing api's to use those services so I see that the evolution isn't there will be a lot of code that you still containerize and offer but there will be many services that are hosted somewhere else posted in a cloud hosting but you want to bring those services to bear I'm creating in an application maybe on Prem with openshift but I need to use a machine learning service from perhaps Google or from Watson and IBM so how do i and those are hosted services so how do I use those services even though my cloud native environment is inside inside the inside the firewall front I'm an integration or two critical pieces you guys got a layout across that right yeah yeah yes and so there's a distributed computer it sounds like an operating system out but it's spread all over the place it's spread all over the place your thoughts on your current portfolio how's it kind of all you talk about some of the services you're enabling within your own portfolio for your customers out there now rel very stable operationally everybody knows that how is the portfolio within Red Hat gonna continue to evolve at what's their vision there yeah so we are beginning to do more of you know integrating infrastructure services in from kubernetes so what you saw you know cnv containerized virtualization allows you to orchestrate VMS we've done the same thing with storage and storage virtualization you'll see more on the infrastructure side probably things like networking are next some of the API is within OpenStack but then up stack we're looking at other capabilities we do have a project going on right now with server list it's in tech preview it was demoed yesterday so you'll see a server list offering from us we have been experimenting with machine learning and AI and we're using it inside of our own capabilities like insights which is a management a hosted management tool but providing machine learning capabilities and offering those inside natively with inside of open ship these are all futures and part of the roadmap that we have going forward for application developers out there are potential partners of Red Hat what's the mandate in your mind to make kubernetes a first-class citizen so if I'm watching I want it I want a vector into this you know skate to where the puck is going kind of mindset what do I need to do what is an enterprise and a business or developer or startup right need to do two cunning connect into the growth is it a playbook do you see something involving that stick and maybe a clear line one of the things I mean from is just a technical basis if you if a partner has software well get a containerized figure out how that works in containers how many how do you structure that if a partner has a service then make that available through the service broker we will work with those partners to you know look at business models that might be appropriate in a cloud native environment that spans across cloud to help them market so those are some of the things I think you know a partner or an ecosystem provider would you should think about what's the feedback of the show here after the hallway conversations Dobbs a lot a lot of openshift conversations it's a centerpiece what are you hearing what are you seeing what's what's going on for you at the show here I think the breadth of what Red Hat has become I you know when we'd go to shows five six years ago we had you know started to build out the portfolio but you know people would still come to the show and you know it's the Linux show but it's no longer the Linux show it's it's a much bigger it's it's about computing open-source computing in the enterprise and cloud-based computing and so the breadth of the portfolio I think is a surprise for many people and how many things we do offer when you look at some of the customer testimonials and the demos we're showing everything from you know infrastructure and private cloud infrastructure out to very sophisticated application development use cases so I think that's a big difference than what you might have seen six broad you're broadening your portfolio from standalone Linux to include management applicate more applications this is a bigger market it's a much bigger market I think we you know we view our we we view our opportunity as becoming the computing platform both at an infrastructure level and helping the developers for the next you know for the next 50 years so hopefully right and it's a shift in the marketplace - and a shift in skill set of the people who are here right that's another thing that to be able to pull those two people into the future like yeah absolutely I mean the skill set used to be again you know a primary linux show a lot of linux systems administrators and and data center executives and data center managers and now you have a much more senior levels many c-suite people coming here to to understand how they transform their business how open-source can help how this broad hybrid cloud platform can help and then a large set of architects and developers so the mix is really interesting now it's not just the infrastructure and data center guys but it's the executives that make those decisions as well as the application develop you have more community members that are users inside the open source projects making things happen oh absolutely you guys now it helps everyone else oh I was just approached by a large bank this week and on openshift i/o which is this tool chain this pipeline capability now an open shift they want to participate they asked how do we get involved in the projects in the upstream projects we would like to build this out so that's just one example I think of and we get asked all the time about hey can you teach us how to be an open company how to be how does open source work how could we facilitate that in our culture to be a little bit more creative collaborative and move faster so I mean open source model is definitely real what are the customer feedback can you share because we're hearing the same thing the customers saying okay it's easier to recruit it's easier to just make everything open just from an operational standpoint right what are some of your top customers that have been with red head for a while what are they saying to you when they say wow this the benefits are are well well the benefits I think are are that they are much faster to market they can leverage skills and capabilities that may not be inherent in their own company beyond their walls they could you know get build ecosystems that have affinity to the to themselves all because they're just you know reaching out there they're participating in open source communities and trying to create a culture of open source and then you get better products out of a certain link wray thanks for coming on the cube and sharing your insights congratulations on all your success great to have you on we're here at the Red Hat summit 28 teens the cubes live covers stay with us for more work day two of three days of wall-to-wall coverage we'll be right back after this short break I'm John four with John Troy here stay with us

from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone's two cubes live coverage here in San Francisco California at Moscone West I'm John for a co-host of the cube with my analyst this week co-host John Troy a co-founder of tech reckoning our next guest is Dave Abrams executive general manager of data at Insurance Australia group welcome to the cube thanks for having me we were just you know talking on an off-camera before we came on about the challenges of data as cloud scale you guys have been around for many many years yeah you're dealing with a lot of legacy yeah you guys out right on the front step what's going on with you take a minute to explain what you guys do in your role in your environment absolutely now it's you know so we're we're large insurance trying we we've got offices in New Zealand and across Southeast Asia so we're kind of expanding out in our in our reach but um we've been around for a hundred odd years and and we've really grown a lot through merger and acquisition over time and so what that's meant ah this is a bit of a byproduct of those kind of merge and acquisition process is that data has been siloed and fragmented in different brands and different products and so it's been hard to get for example just a holistic view of a customer what does the customer have all the products they hold you know are they a personal customer as well as a business caste and all that sort of stuff doesn't kind of line up so we've had that big challenge in we've been working over the last couple of years to even just kind of consolidate all that unify that data into one platform so that we can see across the group from from a holistic perspective and and build that single view of customer and that's now helped us sort of understand you know what our customers are doing in and what's important to them and how we can better support them and yeah and offer better services and what are you doing here at Red Hat this week what's what's the objective what are you doing what do you have you know I'm speaking you talking the folk what's the what's the solution with Red Hat well so yeah we're primarily here as a result of the Innovation Awards so we you know we were nominated and we're successful in our in our award for that category in our region which was wonderful we we're really honored with that so we're here because of that we sharing our customer story with the rest of the Red Hat team and the rest of the open-source community around really what it's meant for us to use open source within a big corporate that's kind of traditionally been based on a lot of vendor technology right a live Ben driven predominantly by the big tech vendors you know that have come in and sort of helped us build big solutions and platforms which which were great and wonderful in the fact that you know they they were there and they lasted like ten years plus and that was all good but now because things are changing so fast we need to be more adaptable and and unfortunately those platforms become so entrenched into the organization and and and sort of lock you in that it's a to adjust into it to be adaptable you can't you can't take it out very easily it doesn't even stack up sometimes from a business case so why would we take that technology out we'll just have to dig deeper and we'll just have to spend more right so we're trying to we're trying to re reverse-engineer some of that and the role open source for you guys have been part of new systems recruiting talent everything director what's been a benefit the impact of absolutely it's huge inand you're right I think one of the biggest benefits for us that that really plays out is there is in the talent side right for our people to say not only are we transitioning our organization as a whole and the way we the way we operate but we're really transitioning out people we're transition from kind of the work force that we that we had and they've got us to where we are today but we're now setting ourselves up for the workforce of the future and it is a different skill set it is a different way of approaching problems so you know bringing bring this new technology to the table and allowing people to experiment to learn and to update their skills and capabilities exactly what we what we need for our company so we're pushing that hard yeah that's great it's like a real cultural shift give me maybe transfer transfer over a little bit to the actual tech problem you had right so you multiple countries multiple data warehouses multiple systems yours so what were you looking at and then what was the solution that you kind of figured out and then when yeah when so when I first started the roll a couple of years back we had something like 23 different separate individual data warehouses there were all sort of interconnected and dependent on each other and had copies of each other in each other and it was just it was a little bit of a mess so so the first challenge was to really sort of rationalize and clean up a lot of that so so that's that's what we spent a fair bit of time upfront doing which was basically really acquiring the organization's data from a massive amount of call source systems so in the vicinity of I think we take data from roughly about 150 to 200 call systems and we want to take that data essentially in as close to real time as we possibly can and pump that into her into a and to a new clean unified data Lake right just to make that data all line up so that was the big challenge in the first instance and then the second instance was really a scale problem right so getting the right technology that would help us scale into you know because we've predominately been using our own data centers and keeping a lot of stuff you know in that sort of on-prem mode but we really wanted to be able you know self scale to not only to be able to you know take advantage of cloud infrastructure just to give us that extra computing that extra storage and processing but really also to be able to leverage the the commoditization that's happening in cloud right because you know all all cloud companies around the world commoditizing technology like machine learning and you know artificial intelligence so that it's it's it's available to lots of organizations and the way we see it is really that that we're not going to be able to compete or out engineer those those companies so we need to make it you know accessible and available for our people to be able to use and leverage that innovation on our work as well as is you know do some some smart stuff ourselves are using infrastructures of service OpenStack or what's your solution I mean what are you guys doing solution is yet to use I've been stack is is our first sort of real step into infrastructure-as-a-service so that's really helped us set up like I was showing this morning set up the capability for us to turn our scale in a really cost-efficient way and we've ported a lot of our traditional dedicated you know applications on infrastructure that you know was like appliance based and things like that on to OpenStack now so that we can it gives us a lot more portability and we can move that around and put that in the place where we think gets us the best value so so that's really helped I'm kind of curious you work with Red Hat consulting and was I was I was curious about that process did you was that the result of a kind of a bake-off or we were already Red Hat customers and said oh hey by the way can you give us some advice yeah it really came about I mean we've been working with Red Hat for many years you know and it started back just sort of in the support area of Linux and and rel and using that kind of capability and rit has been there for us for quite a long time now and I think we've sort of done some some Explorer exploratory type exercise with them around you know I've been shifting and The Container well but but what really started the stick was just getting their expertise in from our OpenStack perspective and when you that was a key platform that we really wanted to dive into an enable and so having them there is our partner and helping us provide that extra consulting knowledge and expertise was was what we really needed helped us deliver on that project and we delivered in a mazing ly tight timeframe so it was a fast delivery faster live what about the business impact why people look at OpenStack and some of these new technologies and certainly with the legacy stuff going on you have got all these things everywhere what was the actual business benefits can you highlight like did you get like faster time-to-market was it like a claims issue and what were the key things that you look back and saying well we kicked ass and we did these three things I mean really what it boils down to as faster time-to-market right and just the ability to move quicker so to give you an example the way we used to work is it would take you say probably weeks maybe even longer to to provision and get infrastructure stood up and ready to go for different projects so I meant that there was all this lead time that projects nearly go through before they could start to write code and even start to add value to to customer so we wanted to sort of take that away and and and and that was a that was a big hindrance to to be able to experiment and to be on a play we think so again we want to take that out of the picture in and really free people up to sort of say well the infrastructure is done and it spins up in a matter of seconds now on OpenStack and you can get on with the job of trying something out experimenting and actually delivering and writing code that will that will produce an outcome to launch new applications what was a specific outcome that came from standing up putting that over stack together I see you experimenting result not adding yeah not only in the app spice but more so the biggest the biggest sort of benefit with God is really in the data space where we've now been able to essentially stand up our entire data stack using open source technology and we've never been able to do that before and this is you know this is this is the environment it's allowed us to do that by just allowing for us to do that test and trial and say you know he's kafir you're gonna be the right tool for us is it you know is he gonna we're gonna use Post Chris whatever that is it's allowed us to sort of really do that in a rapid way and then figure that thing out and start to move forward so you know ask our kiss you guys have done a lot of work out there good work so I gotta ask you the question with kubernetes containers now part of the discussion as a real viable way to handle legacy but also new software development projects how do you look at that what it's what's the your your reaction to that as that practitioner yeah you guys excited yeah yeah things in motion what's your what's your color um absolutely it's in fact it's been something that we've kind of had on the radar for quite a while because we've we've we've been working with containers so dock in particular and and and one of the things that you know you come across this just management of containers and just ongoing maintenance of of those kind of things where they start to get a little bit unwieldy a little bit out of control so you know we've been trying to we try to start which started off trying to build our own you know in solution to that is there's a lot of corporates are doing quickly found out less that's it that's a huge engineering challenge so things like kubernetes that have now come along and the investment that's been put in that platform will really open up that avenue for and even seeing just the the new innovation that's been put into our OpenShift here that sort of takes a lot of that management and service you know administration out of the out of the equation few is wonderful for a company like us because at the end of the day we're an insurance company right we're not a we're not a technology engineering company while although we have some capability it's never going to be our our strengths right we're really here to service our customers and and to help them in the times when they need our help you guys are a data company data is critical for any trivet yeah how how is you how we've become more data-driven as a result of all this yeah so so now that we've got our data all in one place and we're able to get their single views of customers we're able to put that data now into the hands of people that can really add value to us so for example into our analytics teams and get them to look for optimization in price or in service claims processing all those kind of good things that that are helping our customers reduce the the time frames that they would normally go through in that part of that experience and I think one of the other things is not only that but also enrich our digital capability right and rich that digital channel so make it more convenient for customers you know where it used to be that customers would come along and it's literally like coming to the organization for the first time every time you know I say fill in that form again from blank you're like we don't know anything about you but now we're able to enrich your form exactly it's very painful I see your name and you know you wanted to show your house tell us all about that house you know what does it made of you know what what type of roof material what's the wall we know all that we've probably seen that house ten times already so why wouldn't we just be able to pre-populate that kind of information and make it more convenient forecasting personalization becomes critical absolutely absolutely I like the way you underscored and told the story just like with cloud you just can't take your broken old IT apps and just throw them up at the cloud you had to you had to do a data exercise and you had to do a consolidation and the cleaning strong and sure that involved open source but you didn't get the tech stack first first you have to picture picture data app and and that was a key part here yeah so that's difficult and that's you know that's one of the things that I think we really we really invested in it was because a lot of the time what we've seen is organizations have sort of attacked the low-hanging fruit like the the the kind of the external the digital data that they might be able to get but not that offline data that's been you know one and and generated by the branch and the call centers and all those kind of areas and we dug in deep and invested in that space and got that right first which really helped us a lot to accelerate and now we're I think we're in a better position we can definitely take advantage of that yeah thanks for sharing your insights here in the cube I gotta ask you a final question as the folks watching that they're looking at you say wow this guy he got down and dirty fixed some things he's gone forward innovative what advice would you give someone watching is pregnant practitioner what have you learned what's the learnings that you've that have been magnified out of this process for you and your view going forward yeah yeah there's a there's a lot of learnings we can share but I think some of the key ones is you know I think there's sometimes a bit of a bit of a sort of attempt to try and solve everything yourself right and and we definitely did that where I try and build it all yourself and do everything right but it's it's a challenge and and use partners and look for look for you know things that are kind of gonna help you accelerate and give you some of the foundational work you don't have to build yourself right you don't have to build everything yourself and I think that acknowledgement is really key so that was one of the big things for us the other thing is you know just just investing early and getting things right upfront life pulling your data and consolidating it into into a single platform even though that takes a lot of time and and it's and it's quite challenging to sort of go back and redo things that's actually a huge investment in a big winter to really help you accelerate at the end that investment upfront does does pay off so congratulations on your Innovation Award thank you Davis is general manager at I I AG insurance Australia group here inside the cube sharing the best practices it's it's a world you got to do the homework upfront open source is the way it's and it's an operating model for innovation the cube bringing you all the action here on day two of coverage stay with us for more live right after this short break

[Music] from San Francisco it's the covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat everyone welcome back is the cubes live coverage here in San Francisco Red Hat summit 2018 I'm Sean furry co-host of the cube with my coasts analyst this week John Troyer who's the co-founder of tech reckoning advisory and Community Development firm our next guess is red hash Balakrishnan is the general manager of OpenStack for Red Hat welcome to the cube good to see you ready to be here so OpenStack is very hot obviously with the with the with the trends we've been covering from day one been phenomenal to watch that grow and change but with kubernetes you seeing cloud native to robust communities you got application developers and you got under the hood infrastructure so congratulations and you know what's what's the impact of that what is how is OpenStack impacted by the cloud native trend and what is Red Hat doing they're the best epidermis ation of that is openshift on OpenStack if you had caught the keynotes earlier today there was a demo that we did whereby they were spawning open shifts on bare metal using OpenStack and then you run open shift on power that's what we kind of see as the normed implementation for customers looking to get - I want an open infrastructure on Prem which is OpenStack and then eventually want to get to a multi cloud application platform on top of it that makes up the hybrid cloud right so it's a essential ingredient to the hybrid cloud that customers that are trying to get to and open shifts role in this is what I'm assuming we are asked about openshift ownerships will be multi cloud from a application platform perspective right so OpenStack is all about the infrastructure so as long as you're worrying about info or deployment management lifecycle that's going to be openstax remet once you're thinking about applications themselves the packaging of it the delivery of it and the lifecycle of it then you're in openshift land so how do you bring both these things together in a way that is easier simpler and long-standing is the opportunity and the challenge in front of us so the good news is customers are already taking us there and there's a lot of production workflow is happening on OpenStack but I got to ask the question that someone might ask who hasn't been paying attention in a year or so it was thick hey OpenStack good remember that was what's new with OpenStack what would you say that person if they asked you that question about what's new with OpenStack the answer would be something along the lines of boring is the new normal right we have taken the excitement out of OpenStack you know the conversations are on containers so OpenStack has now become the open infrastructure that customers can bring in with confidence right so that's kind of the boring Linux story but you know what that's what we thrive on right our job as reddit is to make sure that we take away the complexities involved in open source innovation and make it easy for production deployment right so that's what we're doing with OpenStack too and I'm glad that in five years we've been able to get here I definitely I think along with boring gos clarity right last year the cube was that OpenStack summit will be there again in two weeks so with you and I enjoy seeing you again for it the last year there was a lot of you know containers versus there was some confusion like where people got sorted out in their head oh this is the infrastructure layer and then this is the a play I think now people have gotten it sorted out in their head open open shipped on OpenStack very clear message so a meaning of the community in two weeks in any comments on the growth of the open OpenStack community the end users that are there the the depth of experience it seemed like last year was great everywhere for OpenStack on the edge it ended you know set top devices and pull top devices all the way to OpenStack in in private data centers and and for various security or logistical reasons where is OpenStack today yeah I think that he phrased would be workload optimization so OpenStack has now evolved to become optimized for various workloads so NFV was a workload that people were talking about now people are in when customers are in production across the globe you know beat Verizon or the some of the largest telcos that we have in any and a pack as well the fact that you can actually transform the network using OpenStack has become real today now the conversation is going from core of the data center to the edge which is radio networks so the fact that you can have a unified fabric which can transcend from data center all the way to a radio and that can be OpenStack is a you know great testament to the fact that a community has rallied around OpenStack and you know delivering on features that customers are demanding pouring is the new normal of that is boring implies reliable no-drama clean you know working if you had to kind of put a priority in a list of the top things just that it are still being worked on I see the job is never done with infrastructure always evolving about DevOps certainly shows that with programmability what are the key areas still on the table for OpenStack that are that are key discussion points where there's still innovation to be done and built upon I think the first one is it's like going from a car to a self-driving car how can we get that infrastructure to autonomously manage itself we were talking about network earlier even in that context how do you get to a implementation of OpenStack that can self manage itself so there's a huge opportunity to make sure that the tooling gets richer to be able to not just deploy manage but fine-tune the infrastructure itself as we go along so clearly you know you can call it AI machine learning implementation you on OpenStack to make sure that the benefit is occurring to the administrator that's an opportunity area the second thing is the containers and OpenStack that we taught touched upon earlier OpenShift on OpenStack in many ways is going to be the cookie cutter that we're gonna see everywhere there's going to be private cloud if you've got a private cloud it's gotta be an open shift or on OpenStack and if it's not I would like to know why right it's a it becomes a de-facto standard you start to have and they enablement skills training for a few folks as you talk to the IT consumer right the the IT admins out there you know what's the message in terms of upskilling and managing say an OpenStack installation and and what does Red Hat doing to help them come along yeah so those who are comfortable with Braille Linux skills are able to graduate easily over to OpenStack as well so we've been nationally focused on making sure that we are training the loyal Linux installed based customers and with the addition of the fact that now the learnings offerings that we have are not product specific but more at the level of the individual can get a subscription for all the products that reddit has you could get learning access to learning so that does help make sure that people are able to graduate or evolve from being able to manage Linux to manage a cloud and the and face the brave new world of hybrid cloud that's happening in front of our eyes but let's talk about the customer conversations you're having as the general manager of the stack red hat what what are the what's the nature of the conversations are they talking about high availability performance or is it more under the hood about open shift and containers or they range across the board depending upon the use cases whose they do range but the higher or the bit is that applications is where the focuses well closes where the focus is so the infrastructure in many ways needs to get out of the way to make sure that the applications can be moving from the speed of thought to execution right so that's where the customer conversations are going so which is kind of ties back to the boring is the new normal as well so if we can make sure that OpenStack is boring enough that all the energy is focused on developing applications that are needed for the enterprise then I think the job is done self-driving OpenStack it means when applications are just running and that self-healing concepts you were talking about automation is happening exactly that's the opportunity in front of us so you know it's by N's code by code we will get there I think I love the demo this morning which showed that off right bare metal stacks sitting there on stage from different vendors right actually you're the you know OpenStack is the infrastructure layer so it's it's out there with servers from Dell and HP II and others right and then booting up and then the demo with the with Amadeus showing you know OpenStack and public clouds with openshift all on top also showed how it fit into this whole multi cloud stack is it is it challenging to to be the layer with with the hardware hardware heterogeneous enough at this point that OpenStack can handle it are there any issues they're working with different OEMs and if you look at the history of red add that's what we've done right so the rel became rel because of the fact that we were able to abstract multi various innovation that was happening at the so being able to bring that for OpenStack is like we've got you know that's the right to swipe the you know employee card if you will right so I think the game is going back to what you were only talking about the game is evolving to now that you have the infrastructure which abstracts the compute storage networking etc how do you make sure that the capacity that you've created it's applied to where the need is most right for example if you're a telco and if you're enabling Phi G IOT you want to make sure that the capacity is closest to where the customer fool is right so being able to react to customer needs or you know the customers customers needs around where the capacity has to be for infrastructure is the programmability part that we've you know we can enable right so that's a fascinating place to get into I know you are technology users yourself right so clearly you can relate to the fact that if you can make available just enough technology for the right use case then I think we have a winner at hand yeah and taking as you said taking the complexity out of it also means automating away some of those administrative roles and moving to the operational piece of it which developers want to just run their code on it kind of makes things go a little faster and and so ok so I get that and I but I got to ask the question that's more Redhead specific that you could weigh in on this because this is a real legacy question around red hats business model you guys have been very strong with rel the the the record speaks for itself in terms of warranty and and serviceability you guys give like I mean how many years is it now like a zillion years that support for rel OpenStack is boring is Red Hat bringing that level of support now how many years because if I use it I'm gonna need to have support what's the Red Hat current model on support in terms of versioning xand the things that you guys do with customers thank you for bringing that up what have you been consciously doing is to make sure that we have lifecycle that is meeting two different customers segments that we are talking about one is customers who want to be with the latest and the greatest closer to the trunk so every six months there is an openstack released they want to be close enough they want to be consuming it but it's gotta be production ready in their environment the second set of customers are the ones who are saying hey look the infrastructure part needs to stay there cemented well and then every maybe a couple of years I'll take a real look at you know bringing in the new code to light up additional functionality or on storage or network etc so when you look at both the camps then the need is to have a dual life cycle so what we have done is with OpenStack platform 10 which is two years ago we have a up to five year lifecycle release so obvious that platform 10 was extensible up to five years and then every two releases from there 11 and 12 are for just one year alone and then we come back to again a major release which is OSP 13 which will be another five years I know it can be and they get the full Red Hat support that they're used to that's right so there are years that you're able to either stay at 10 or you could be the one who's going from 10 to 11 to 12 to 13 there are some customers were saying staying at 10 and then I won't go over to 13 and how do you do that we'll be a industry first and that's what we have been addressing from an engineering perspective is differentiated - I think that's a good selling point guy that's always a great thing about Red Hat you guys have good support give the customers confidence or not you guys aren't new to the enterprise and these kinds of customers so right - what are you doing here at the show red hat summit 2018 what's on your agenda what some of the hallway conversations you're hearing customer briefings obviously some of the keynote highlights were pretty impressive what going on for you it's a Volvo OpenShift on OpenStack that's where the current and the future is and it's not something that you have to wait for the reality is that when you're thinking about containers you might be starting very small but the reality is that you're going to have a reasonably sized farm that needs to power all the innovation that's going to happen in your organization so given that you need to have an infrastructure management solution thought through and implemented on day one itself so that's what OpenStack does so when you can roll out OpenStack and then on top of it bring in openshift then you not only have to you're not only taking care of today's needs but also as you scale and back to the point we were talking about moving the capacity where is needed you have a elastic infrastructure that can go where the workload is demanding the most attention so here's another question that might come up from when I asked you and you probably got this but I'll just bring it up anyway I'm a customer of OpenStack or someone kicking the tires learning about deploying up a stack I say ritesh what is all this cloud native stuff I see kubernetes out there what does that mean for me visa V OpenStack and all the efforts going on around kubernetes and above and the application pieces of the stack right let's say if you looked at the rear view mirror five years ago when we looked at cloud native as a contract the tendency was that hey look I need to be developing net new applications that's the only scenario where cloud native would be thought thought off now fast forward five years now what has happened is that cloud native and DevOps culture has become the default if you are a developer if you're not sort of in that ploughed native and DevOps then you are working on yesterday's problem in many ways so if digital transformation is urging organizations to drive - as cloud native applications then cloud native applications require an infrastructure that's fungible inelastic and that's how openshift on OpenStack again coming back to the point of that's the future that customers can build on today and moving forward so summarize I would say what I heard you saying periphery if I'm wrong open ship is a nice bridge layer or an up bridge layer but a connection point if you bet on open ship you're gonna have best of both worlds that that's a good summary and you gotta be you know betting on open first of all is the first order a bet that you should be making once you've bet on open then the question is you gotta bet on an infrastructure choice that's OpenStack and you gotta bet on an application platform choice that's open shift once you've got both of these I think then the question is what are you going to do with your spare time okay count all the cash you're making from all the savings but also choice is key you get all this choice and flexibility is a big upside I would imagine British thanks for coming on sharing your insight on the queue appreciate it thanks for letting us know what's going on and best of luck see you in Vancouver thank you for having okay so the cube live coverage here in San Francisco for Red Hat summit 2018 John four with John Troy you're more coverage after this short break

brought to you by Red Hat well welcome back everyone this two cubes exclusive coverage here in San Francisco California for Red Hat summit 20:18 I'm John Ferreira co-host of the cube with my analyst co-host this week John Troy year co-founder of The Reckoning advisory services and our next guest is Arvind Krishna who's the senior vice president of hybrid cloud at IBM Reese and director of IBM Research welcome back to the cube good to see you hey John and John Wade you guys just kick it confuse get to John's here great to have you on because you guys are doing some deals with Red Hat obviously the leader at open source you guys are one of them as well contributing to Linux it's well documented the IBM has three books on your role relationship to Linux so yeah check check but you guys are doing a lot of work with cloud in a way that you know frankly is very specific to IBM but also has a large industry impact not like the classic cloud so I want to get who tie the knot here and put that together so first I got to ask you take a minute to talk about why you're here with red hat what's the update with IBM with Red Hat yeah great John thanks and thanks for giving me the time I'm going to talk about it in two steps one I'm going to talk about a few common Tenace between IBM and Red Hat and then I'll go from there to the specific news so for the context we both believe in Linux I think that's easy to state we both believe in containers I think that's the next thing to state and we'll come back and talk about containers because this is a world containers are linked to Linux containers are linked to these technologies called kubernetes containers are linked to how you make workloads portable across many different environments both private and public then I go on from there to say and we both believe in hybrid hybrid meaning that people want the ability to run their workload wherever they want beat on a private cloud beat on a public cloud and do it without having to rewrite everything as you go across okay so let's just average those are the market needs so then you come back and say an IBM as a great portfolio of middleware names like WebSphere and db2 and I can go on and on and rather has a great footprint of Linux in the enterprise so now you say we got the market need of hybrid we got these two things which between them of tens of millions maybe hundreds of millions of endpoints how do you make that need get fulfilled by this and that's what we just announced here so we announced that IBM middleware will run containerized on RedHat containers on Red Hat Enterprise Linux in addition we said IBM cloud private which is the ability to bring all of the IBM middleware in a sort of a cloud friendly form right you click and you install it keeps itself up it doesn't go down it's elastic in a set of technologies we call IBM cloud private running in turn on Red Hat open shift container service on Red Hat Linux so now for the first time if you say I want private I want public I want to go here I want to go there you have a complete certified stack that is complete I think I can say we are unique in the industry and giving you this this and this is where this is kind of where the fruit comes on the tree off the tree for you guys you know we've been good following you guys for years you know every where's the cloud strategy and first well it's not like you don't have a cloud strategy you have cloud products right so you have to deliver the goods you've got the system replays the market need we all knows the hybrid cloud multi-cloud choice cetera et cetera right you take Red Hat's footprint your capabilities your combined install base is foundational right so and nothing needs to change there's no lifting shift there's no rip and replace you can it's out there it's foundational now on top of it is where the action is that's what we're that's what were you kind of getting at right that's correct so so we can go into somebody there running let's say a massive online banking application or the running a reservation system is using technologies from Asus using Linux underneath and today it's all a bunch of piece parts you have a huge complex stuff it's all hard wired and rigidly nailed down to the floor in a few places and I can say hey I'll take the application I don't have to rewrite the application I can containerize it I can put it here and that same app now begins to work but in a way that's a lot more fluid in elastic well by the way I want to do a bit more work I want to expose a bit of it up as micro-services I want search Samia you can go do that you want to fully make it microservices enable to be able to make it as little components and digestible you can do that so you can take it in sort of bite-sized chunks and go from one to the other at the pace that you want and that's game-changing yeah that's what I really like about this announcement it really brings the best of breed together right you did you know there's a lot of talk about containers and legacy and we you know we've been talking about what goes where and do you have to break everything up like you were just saying but the the announcement today you know WebSphere the this the you know a battle-tested huge enterprise scale component db2 those things containerized and also in a framework like with IBM we either with IBM Microsoft things or others right that's um that's a huge endorsement for open shipped as a platform absolutely it is and look we would be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit I mean we use the word containers and containers a lot yes you're right containers is a really really important technology but what containers enable is much more than prior attempts such as vm's and all have done containers really allow you to say hey I saw the security problem I solved the patching problem the restart problem all those problems that lie around the operations of a typical enterprise can get solved with containers VM sold a lot about isolating the infrastructure but they didn't solve as John was saying the top half of the stack and that's I think the huge power here yeah I want to just double click on that because I think the containers thing is instrument because you know first of all being in the media and loving what we do we're kind of a new kind of media company but traditional media has been throwing IBM under the bus and saying oh you know old guard and all these things but here's the thing you don't have to change anything you could containers you can essentially wrap it up and then bring a micro-services architecture into it so you can actually leverage at cloud scale so what interests me is is that you can move instantly value proposition wise pre-existing market cloud if I if you will with operational capabilities and this is where I like the cloud private so I want to kind of go with the ever second if I have a need to take what I have an IBM when it's WebSphere now I got developers I got installed base I'd have to put a migration plan away I containerize it thank you very much I do some cloud native stuff but I want to make it private my use case is very specific maybe it's confidential maybe it's like a government region whatever I can create a cloud operations is that right I can cloud apply it and run it absolutely correct so when you look at about private to go down that path we said well private allows you to run on your private infrastructure but I want all these abilities you just described John I want to be able to do micro services I want to be able to scale up and down I want to be able to say operations happen automatically so it gives you all that but in the private without having to go all the way to the public so if you cared a lot about you're in a regulated industry because you went down government or confidential data or you say this data is so sensitive I don't really I'm not going to take the risk of it being anywhere else it absolutely gives you that ability to go do that and and that is what we brought to our private to the market for and then you combine it with open shift and now you get the powers of both together so you guys essentially have brought to the table the years of effort with bluemix all that good stuff going on you can bring any he'd actually run this in any industry vertical pretty much right absolutely so if you look at what what the past has been for the entire industry it has been a lot about constructing a public cloud not just to us but us and our competition and a public cloud has certain capabilities and it has certain elasticity it has a global footprint but it does not have a footprint that's in every zip code or in every town or in every city that song ought to happen to the public cloud so we say it's a hybrid world meaning that you're going to run some bulk loads on a public cloud and like to run some bulk loads on a private and I'd like to have the ability that I don't have to pre decide which is where and that is what the containers the micro services the open ship that combination all gives you to say you don't need to pre decide you fucker you rewrite the workload on to this and then you can decide where it runs well I was having this conversation with some folks at and recent Amazon Web Services conference to say well if you go to cloud operations then the on-prem is essentially the edge it's not necessary then the definition of on-premise really doesn't even exist so if you have cloud operations in a way what is the data center then it's just a connected tissue that's right it's the infrastructure which you set up and then at that point the software manages the data center as opposed to anything else and that's kind of being the goal that we are all being wanted it sounds like this is visibility into IBM's essentially execution plan from day one we've been seeing in connecting the dots having the ability to take either pre-existing resources foundational things like red hat or whatnot in the enterprise not throwing it away building on top of it and having a new operating model with software with elastic scale horizontally scalable synchronous all those good things enabling micro search with kubernetes and containers now for the first time I could roll out new software development life cycles in a cloud native environment without foregoing legacy infrastructure and investment absolutely and one more element and if you want to insert some public cloud services into the environment beat in private or in public you can go do that for example you want to insert a couple of AI services into your middle of your application you can go do that so the environment allows you to do what he described and these additions we're talking about people for a second though the the titles that we haven't mentioned CIO you know business leader business unit leaders how are they looking at the digital transformation and business transformation in your client base as you go out and talk to us so let's take a hypothetical back and every bank today is looking about at simple questions how do i improve my customer experience and everyone in this a customer experience really do mean digital customer experience to make it very tangible and what they mean by that is how I get my end customer engaged with me through an app the apps probably on a device like this some smartphone we won't say what it is and and so how do you do that and so they say well well you were to check your balance you obviously want to maybe look at your credit card you want to do all those things the same things we do today so that application exists there is not much point in rewriting it you might do the UI up but it's an app that exists then you say but I also want to give you information that's useful to you in the context of what you're doing I want to say you can get a 10 second not a not a 30-day load but a ten-second law I want to make it offer to you in the middle of you browsing credit cards all those are new customer this thinks are hot where do you construct those apps how do you mix and match it how do you use all the capabilities along with the data you got to go do that and what we are trying to now say here is a platform that you can go all that do all that on right to that complete lifecycle you mentioned the development lifecycle but I got to add to the the data lifecycle as well as here is the versioning here are my area models all those things built in into one platform and scales are huge the new competitive advantage you guys are enabling that so I got to ask you on the question on on multi cloud I'll see as people start building out the cloud on pram and with public cloud the things you're laying out I can see that going on for a while a lot of work being done there we seeing that wiki bond had a true private cloud before I thought was truly telling a lot of growth they're still not going away public cloud certainly has grown the numbers are clear however the word multi clouds being kicked around I think it's more of a future state obviously but people have multiple clouds will have relationships with multiple clouds no one's gonna have one Klaus not a winner-take-all game winner take most but you're gonna have multiple clouds what does multi-cloud mean to you guys in your architecture because is that moving workloads in real time based upon spot pricing indexes or is that just co-locating on clouds and saying I got this SAP on that cloud that app on that cloud control plane did these are architectural questions it's the thing hell is multi cloud so these are today and then there is a tomorrow and then there is a long future state right so let's take today let's check IBM we're on Salesforce we're on service now we're on workday we're on SuccessFactors well all these are different clouds we run our own public cloud we run our own private cloud and we have traditional data center and we might have some of the other clouds also through apps that we bought that we don't even know okay so let's just toss I think every one of our clients is like this so multi cloud is here today I begin with that first simple statement and I need to connect the data and it comes connect when things go away the next step I think people nobody's gonna have only one even public cloud I think the big public clouds most people are gonna have to if not more that's today and tomorrow your channel partners have clouds by the way your global s lies all have clouds there's a cloud for crying out loud right so then you go into the aspirational state and that may be the one he said where people do spot pricing but even if I stay back from spot pricing and completely dynamic and of worrying about network and I'm worrying about video reach I just back up on to but I may decide it I have this app I run it on private well but I don't have all the infrastructures I want to bust it today and I've very robust it to I got to decide which public and how do I go there and that's a problem of today and we're doing that and that is why I think multi-cloud is here now not some pointed problem the problem statement there is latency managing you know service level agreements between clouds and so on and so forth governance where does my data go because there may be regulate regulate through reasons to decide where the data can flow and all the great point about the cloud I never thought about that way it's a good good illustration I would also say that I see the same argument of database world not everyone has db2 that everyone has Oracle number one has databases are everywhere you have databases part of IOT devices now so like no one makes a decision on the database similar was proud you're seeing a similar dynamic it's the glue layer that to me interest me as you how do you bring them together so holistically looking at the 20 mile stare in the future what is the integration strategy long term if you look at a distributed system or an operating system there has to be an architectural guiding principle for absolute integration you know well that's 30 years now in the making so we can say networking everybody had their own networking standards and the let's say the 80s though it probably goes back to the 70s right yeah an SN a tcp/ip you had NetBIOS TechNet deck that go on and on and in the end is tcp/ip that one out as the glue others by the way survived but in pockets and then tcp/ip was the glue then you can fast forward 15 years beyond that an HTTP became the glue we call that the internet then you can fast forward you can say now how to make applications portable and I would turn around and tell you that containers on linux with kubernetes as orchestration is that glue layer now in order to make it so just like in tcp/ip it wasn't enough to say tcp/ip you needed routing tables you needed DNS you needed name repositories you needed all those things similarly you need all those here I've called those catalogs and automation so that's the glue layer that makes all of this work this is important I love this conversation because I've been ranting on this in the queue for years you're nailed it a new stack is development DNS this is olden Internet infrastructure cloud infrastructure at the global scale is seeing things like Network effect okay we see blockchain in token economics like databases multiple database on structured data a new plethora of new things are happening that are building on top of say HTTP correct and this is the new opportunity this is the new the new platform which is emerging and it's going to enable businesses to operate you said at scale to be very digital to be very nimble application life cycles are not always going to be months they're gonna come down to days and this is what gets enabled so I want you to give your opinion personal or IBM or whatever perspective because I think you nailed the glue layer on cue and a stalker and these this new glue layer that and you made reference system things like HTTP and TCP which changed the industry landscape wealth creation new up new new brands emerged companies we've never heard of emerged out of this and we're all using them today we expect a new set of brands are gonna emerge new technologies and emerge in your expert opinion how gigantic is this swarm of new innovation gonna be just because you've seen many ways before in your view your mind's eye what are you expecting wouldn't share your your insight into how big of a shift and wave is this is going to be and add some color to that I think that if I take a take a shorter and then a longer term view in the short term I think that we said that this is on the order of 100 billion dollars that's not just our estimate I think even Gartner estimated about the same number that'll be the amount of opportunity for new technologies in what we've been describing and that is I think short term if I go longer term I think as much as 1/2 but at least 1/4 of the complete ID market is going to shift onto these technologies so then the winners are those that make the shift and then bye-bye clusion the losers of those who don't make this shift faster Afghan and stop the market moves that's that's he was interesting we used to like look at certain segments going back years oh this companies reap platform Ising we platforming they're their operative lift and shift and all this stuff what you're talking about here is so game-changing because the industries Reap lat forming that's a company that's it's an industry that's right any and I think the the the Internet era of 1995 to put that point it's perhaps the easiest analogy to what is happening not the not the emergence of cloud not the emergence of all that I think that was small steps what we're talking about now is back to the 1995 statement every vertical is upgrading their stack across the board from e-commerce to whatever that's right it's completely modernizing correct around cloud what we call digital transformation in a sense yes what not a big fan of the word but I lied I understand what you mean great insight our thanks for coming on the Kuban Sharon because we even get to some of the other good stuff but IBM and Red Hat doing some great stuff obviously foundational I mean Red Hat Tier one first-class citizen in every single enterprise and software environment you know now saw open source runs the world you guys you guys are no stranger to Linux being the first billion dollar investment going back so you guys have a heritage there so congratulations on the relationships that go around about ninety nine nine yeah and and I love the strategy hybrid cloud here at IBM and right at this the cube bring you all the action here in San Francisco I'm John for John Troy you're more live covers stay with us here in the cube Willie right back