from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone this is the cube live in San Francisco Moscone West for coverage of Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John for the co-host of the cube mykos this week as analyst John Schwarz the co-founder of tech reckoning advisory and Community Development firm our next guest is Craig pizzelles right senior vice president application platforms business and portfolio for Red Hat great to see you welcome back to the cube thank you very much John so big-time executive a company is doing well and you guys are growing adding more people every time being successful again an open source another generations upon us a standing on the shoulders of giants you guys have been a business model for Red Hat for many many years rel certainly successful container madness now mainstream kubernetes clear line of sight on what that's doing as an abstraction layer and standard de-facto standard around orchestration the really good tailwind for you guys and the industry absolutely absolutely congratulations and what's your take I mean obviously you got apps now you're good people gonna be building apps system working OpenStack what's what's going on right well there's a lot going on I mean we've we've been very consistent about our strategy and it's finally starting to pay off and come together and I think the mark is starting to realize that we have been talking about hybrid cloud before it was in vogue and you know well over five years ago and so all those pieces come together we've always talked about a story of there are multiple footprints whether it's physical vert traditional virtual private cloud and public cloud and then companies will want to and customers will want to do more than just the four footprints they want to do multi cloud as well so you know we've been very strong on the infrastructure side having Linux as the base and the operational consistency across those footprints in which to build on and then now containers and kubernetes with OpenShift gives us plus that that last leg together to give us that abstraction layer across these multiple footprints to allow hybrid to happen I wanna get your reaction this because we were talking on our intro package around the dynamic we're seeing in today's business landscape and technical landscape open source clearly the business model for software right check kubernetes provide some interoperability and cloud native growth for new applications cloud we're cloud native what are you gonna call it and then you've got legacy applications for the first time don't have to get thrown away to go to the new world you have the ability to containerize write pre-existing applications while bringing a new functionality new infrastructure new software methodologies development architectures modernizing software yeah while maintaining and preserving the life cycle of pre-existing applications great absolutely this is the dynamic that is really a wonderful thing because takes the pressure off absolutely and I think that's unique to Red Hat which is we've always had not only the hybrid cloud story the multi cloud story but the fact that containers allows you to advanced advanced a movement to you know do digital transformation start using micro services etc but you don't need to start over you can take existing applications you can containerize those applications get them into a cloud environment gain those efficiencies operational efficiencies and development efficiencies and then start to also build new applications based on microservices architectures and bring both together some of the other vendors out there may only have a story about well you have to rewrite everything it right or it's only going to be public cloud and you're tied to those public cloud api's I think you know using containers as a methodology and then using orchestration with kubernetes you can have the best of both worlds and we think that's important I wanted to drill down to the stack a little bit more right I think this year maybe even as opposed to last year the cube was that the OpenStack summit and there was a little bit of confused talk about you know containers you know what on what openshift on OpenStack or vice versa the message this this year very clear you know openshift on OpenStack here's the infrastructure don't get confused so we've got those two layers that you lay down but also there's a lot of application services in the Red Hat stack that you all have built out and I think if people were listening closely right there's a multi-year investment in there in things like you know that originated with an application server like JBoss that now actually in 2018 architectural II look very different now that's a set of services that developers can use so maybe I mean can you talk a little bit about I mean that's an example also I'm not throwing everything out but evolving can talk a little bit about the depth of the stack there and and servicing all those various requirements I mean if you look at the stack we're talking about infrastructure services some of those are in things like OpenStack so you know whether it's compute storage networking etc we demonstrated some ability in through kubernetes to provision and orchestrate VMs and so you saw some of that in the demos that we show today but then once you lay down that foundational layer with containers and kubernetes with openshift then we start to build services on top of that we have been building this portfolio of middleware services for some time and so we can provide messaging as a service we can provide integration and ipad services we have something now called Roar which is packaging together a runtime and frameworks to put together inside of OpenShift we have process management and orchestration technologies business process management so all those services are something that developers need and you start adding those now as cloud services and so the other one of the other things that we've also done beginning about two years ago we began a journey for automating the application lifecycle of building application the pipeline capability we did an acquisition of a company called codenvy which is the founders of eclipse CheY the cloud native ide and workspace environment and so now we've now begun shipping openshift i/o to give you that end-to-end capability from beginning your project to writing the code to doing CI CD and managing the full lifecycle so it's all starting to come together for us a big big talk here at the show about kubernetes being kind of dun dun gnu/linux right the new platform that's going to enable a huge amount of innovation but I love that openshift is more than kubernetes a and also that you know as part of this it's it's a it's you know the role of Linux was a bunch of device drivers right and you're and you're organizing on one machine the clap now that we're in cloud right kubernetes is is about operations like you just said about the code lifecycle about all this stuff and all of a sudden yes it yes it's a it's an analogy but but it's much broader than that it's much broader than that one analogy I mean you made the analogy about Linux I mean Linux basically abstracted a number of hardware architectures and gave you a common operating environment in which to run on x86 or even run on a mainframe or run on power now running on arm you know we have looked at and said well there's a similar analogy now having and taking place with containers in kubernetes where you can create an orchestration layer and an abstraction layer across multiple infrastructures and then building app dev services on top of that so that's what's coming together right now so you know we think it's important also to build out the ecosystem so we're providing application development services on top of this you know this abstraction layer we're building tooling and application lifecycle management but we're also bringing in partners so our announcements today with or yesterday with IBM and even Microsoft they're container izing sequel server they're putting it into our container catalog there will be a distribution of that the the the IBM products and the IBM middleware products and so we'd right now in our ecosystem development program we have about 60 is v's already certified already in a container catalog we grade them in terms of their security so you have some confidence we have another pipeline of another two hundred is BS coming in and then also our service broker so bringing in services we made announcements last year with with AWS to bring in some of their services like lambda and other services into the service broker so you see this hybrid world where you have a lot of different application development capabilities both from us and from our on the ecosystem and the service broker technology to help you bridge you know the best of breed services from all these multiple clouds okay I talked about the ecosystem evolution because you're creating an enabling technology capability and new new growth is coming we see that already kind of on the radar how is that gonna change the ecosystem makeup for you guys actually the the container catalog and ISPs what's it gonna look like is V is gonna be developer I mean what how do you guys envision the ecosystem evolving over the ecosystem it obviously is involved most of these you know most of the traditional the ISPs will begin to offer their own services you know they might be hosting them on AWS but they're gonna provide cloud services so they're gonna be exposing api's to use those services so I see that the evolution isn't there will be a lot of code that you still containerize and offer but there will be many services that are hosted somewhere else posted in a cloud hosting but you want to bring those services to bear I'm creating in an application maybe on Prem with openshift but I need to use a machine learning service from perhaps Google or from Watson and IBM so how do i and those are hosted services so how do I use those services even though my cloud native environment is inside inside the inside the firewall front I'm an integration or two critical pieces you guys got a layout across that right yeah yeah yes and so there's a distributed computer it sounds like an operating system out but it's spread all over the place it's spread all over the place your thoughts on your current portfolio how's it kind of all you talk about some of the services you're enabling within your own portfolio for your customers out there now rel very stable operationally everybody knows that how is the portfolio within Red Hat gonna continue to evolve at what's their vision there yeah so we are beginning to do more of you know integrating infrastructure services in from kubernetes so what you saw you know cnv containerized virtualization allows you to orchestrate VMS we've done the same thing with storage and storage virtualization you'll see more on the infrastructure side probably things like networking are next some of the API is within OpenStack but then up stack we're looking at other capabilities we do have a project going on right now with server list it's in tech preview it was demoed yesterday so you'll see a server list offering from us we have been experimenting with machine learning and AI and we're using it inside of our own capabilities like insights which is a management a hosted management tool but providing machine learning capabilities and offering those inside natively with inside of open ship these are all futures and part of the roadmap that we have going forward for application developers out there are potential partners of Red Hat what's the mandate in your mind to make kubernetes a first-class citizen so if I'm watching I want it I want a vector into this you know skate to where the puck is going kind of mindset what do I need to do what is an enterprise and a business or developer or startup right need to do two cunning connect into the growth is it a playbook do you see something involving that stick and maybe a clear line one of the things I mean from is just a technical basis if you if a partner has software well get a containerized figure out how that works in containers how many how do you structure that if a partner has a service then make that available through the service broker we will work with those partners to you know look at business models that might be appropriate in a cloud native environment that spans across cloud to help them market so those are some of the things I think you know a partner or an ecosystem provider would you should think about what's the feedback of the show here after the hallway conversations Dobbs a lot a lot of openshift conversations it's a centerpiece what are you hearing what are you seeing what's what's going on for you at the show here I think the breadth of what Red Hat has become I you know when we'd go to shows five six years ago we had you know started to build out the portfolio but you know people would still come to the show and you know it's the Linux show but it's no longer the Linux show it's it's a much bigger it's it's about computing open-source computing in the enterprise and cloud-based computing and so the breadth of the portfolio I think is a surprise for many people and how many things we do offer when you look at some of the customer testimonials and the demos we're showing everything from you know infrastructure and private cloud infrastructure out to very sophisticated application development use cases so I think that's a big difference than what you might have seen six broad you're broadening your portfolio from standalone Linux to include management applicate more applications this is a bigger market it's a much bigger market I think we you know we view our we we view our opportunity as becoming the computing platform both at an infrastructure level and helping the developers for the next you know for the next 50 years so hopefully right and it's a shift in the marketplace - and a shift in skill set of the people who are here right that's another thing that to be able to pull those two people into the future like yeah absolutely I mean the skill set used to be again you know a primary linux show a lot of linux systems administrators and and data center executives and data center managers and now you have a much more senior levels many c-suite people coming here to to understand how they transform their business how open-source can help how this broad hybrid cloud platform can help and then a large set of architects and developers so the mix is really interesting now it's not just the infrastructure and data center guys but it's the executives that make those decisions as well as the application develop you have more community members that are users inside the open source projects making things happen oh absolutely you guys now it helps everyone else oh I was just approached by a large bank this week and on openshift i/o which is this tool chain this pipeline capability now an open shift they want to participate they asked how do we get involved in the projects in the upstream projects we would like to build this out so that's just one example I think of and we get asked all the time about hey can you teach us how to be an open company how to be how does open source work how could we facilitate that in our culture to be a little bit more creative collaborative and move faster so I mean open source model is definitely real what are the customer feedback can you share because we're hearing the same thing the customers saying okay it's easier to recruit it's easier to just make everything open just from an operational standpoint right what are some of your top customers that have been with red head for a while what are they saying to you when they say wow this the benefits are are well well the benefits I think are are that they are much faster to market they can leverage skills and capabilities that may not be inherent in their own company beyond their walls they could you know get build ecosystems that have affinity to the to themselves all because they're just you know reaching out there they're participating in open source communities and trying to create a culture of open source and then you get better products out of a certain link wray thanks for coming on the cube and sharing your insights congratulations on all your success great to have you on we're here at the Red Hat summit 28 teens the cubes live covers stay with us for more work day two of three days of wall-to-wall coverage we'll be right back after this short break I'm John four with John Troy here stay with us

San Francisco it's the Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat okay welcome back everyone this is the cube live in San Francisco for Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John for the co-host of the cube and this week for three days of wall-to-wall coverage my co-host analyst is John Tory the co-founder of check reckoning and advisory and community development services firm industry legend formerly VMware's Bentley he was at the Q in 2010 our first ever cube nine years ago John Day one wrap up let's analyze what we heard and dissect and and put Red Hat into day one in the books but you know clearly it's a red-letter day for red hat so to speak your thoughts big day for open shift I think and hybrid cloud right we just saw a lot of signs here that we'll talk about that it's real there's real enterprises here real deployments in the cloud multi-cloud on-site hybrid cloud and i think there's really no doubt about that they really brought a brought the team out and you know red hat's become a bellwether relative to the tech industry because if you look at what they do there's so many irons on the fires but more the most important is that they have huge customer base in the enterprise which they've earned over a decades of work being the open source renegade to the open source darling and Tier one citizen they got a huge install basin they got to manage this so they can't just throw you know spaghetti at the wall they gotta have big solutions they're very technical company very humble but they do make some good tech bets absolutely we'll be talking with the folks from core OS tomorrow they have a couple of other action you know things we'll be talking about a lot of interesting partnerships the the most you know the thing here Linux is real and it's is the 20-year growth and that it's real in the enterprise and I mean the top line think the top line slowed and John is is is kubernetes than the gnu/linux for the cloud and I got to say there's some reality there yeah it's there's no doubt about it I mean then I've got my notes here just my summary for the day is on that point the new wave is here okay the glue layer that kubernetes and containers provide on top of say Linux in this case OpenShift a you know alternative past layer just a few years ago becomes the centerpiece of red hats you know architecture really providing some amazing benefits so I think what's clear is that this new shift this new wave is massive and we've heard on the cube multiple references to tcp/ip HTTP these are seminal moments where there's a massive inflection point where the games just radically changes for the better wealth creation happens startups boom new brands emerged that we've never heard of that just come out of the woodwork entrepreneurial activity hits an all-time high and they all these things are coming yeah I said John I was really impressed if we talk to a number of folks who are involved with technologies that some people might call legacy right we the Java programmers the IBM WebSphere folks they've been you you look at these technologies solid proven tested but yet still over here and adapted for today right and they talked about how they're fitting into openshift how they're fitting into modern application development and you're not leaving those people behind they're really here and you know the old joke going back to say Microsoft when Steve Ballmer was the CEO hell will freeze over when Linux isn't in in Microsoft ecosystem look today no further than what's going on in their developer Commerce called Microsoft build where Linux is the centerpiece of their open-source strategy and Microsoft has transformed themselves into a total open-source world so you know now you got Oracle with giving up Java II calling a Jakarta essentially bringing Java into an the Eclipse community huge move it's a kind of a nuance point but that's another signal of the shifts going on out in the open where communities aren't just yesterday's open source model a new generation of open source actors are coming in a new model I think the CNC F is showing it the Linux Foundation proves that you can have commercialization downstream with open source projects as that catalyst point as a big deal and I think that is happening at a new new level and it's super exciting to see yeah I mean open source is the new normal sure that that works it's in the enterprise but that doesn't mean that open source disappears it actually means that open source and communities and companies coming together to drive innovation actually gets more and more important I kind of thought well you know it's open source well everybody does open source but actually the the dynamics we're seeing of these both large companies partnering with small companies foundations like you talked about the Linux cutlasses various parts the Linux Foundation cloud boundary foundation etc right are really making a big impact well we had earlier on assistant general counsel David Levine and bringing about open source I think one key thing that's notable is this next generation of open source wave comes is the business model of open source and operationalizing it in not just server development lifecycle but in the business operation so for example spending resources on managing proprietary products with that have open source components separate from the community is a resource that you don't have to spend anymore if you just contribute everything to open source that energy can go away so I think open source projects and the product monetization component not new concepts is now highlighted as a bonafide competitive advantage across the company not just proven but like operationally sound legally verified certified and I think also you have to look at the distribution of open source versus the operation and management of open source we see a lot of management managed kubernetes coming out and in fact we didn't talk about today Microsoft big announcement here at the show Microsoft is on Azure is running a managed open ship not not kubernetes they already have kubernetes they're running a managed open ship another way of adding value to an open open source platforms to date directly to the IT operator honestly do you think these kind of deals would happen if you go back four years three years ago oh no way as you're running an open shift absolutely I mean were you crazy the you know the kingdom is turned upside down absolutely this is a notable point I want to get your reaction is because I see this absolutely as validation to the new wave being here with kubernetes containers as a de facto rallying point an inflection point big deals are happening IBM and Red Hat big deal we just talked about them with the players here two bellwether saying we're getting behind containers and two bays in a big way from that relationship essentially it changes the game literally overnight for IBM changes the game for Red Hat I think a little bit more for IBM than Red Hat already gets a ton of benefit but IBM instantly gets a cloud strategy that has a real scalable product market to it Arvind the the head of research laid that out and IBM now can go and compete with major players on deals with the private cloud more deals are coming absolutely this is the beginning now that everyone snapped into place is saying okay kubernetes and containers we now understand this the rallying cry a de facto standard I think a formation is going to happen in the next six to 12 months of major major major players now I mean we are in a not one size does not fit all world John so I mean we will continue to see healthy ecosystems I mean mesosphere and DT cos is still out there Dockers still out there right you will see very functional communities and and functioning application platforms and cloud platforms but you got to say the momentum is here I mean look at amine docker mace those fears look at when things like this happened this is my opinion so I'm just gonna say it out there when you have de facto standards that happen like this it's an opportunity to differentiate so I think what's gonna happen is docker meso sphere and others including the legacy guys like IBM and in others they have to differentiate their products they have to compete software companies so I think docker I think is come tonight at docker con but my opinion looking at from the outside is I think Dockers realized looking we can't make money from containers kubernetes is happening we're a great standard in that let's be a software company let's differentiate around kubernetes so this is just more pressure or more call-to-action to deliver good software hey it's never been of somebody said it's never been a better time to be an IT and IT infrastructure right this is a you think that the tools we have available to us super-powerful another key point I want to get your reaction on with kubernetes and containers this kind of de facto standardization is breathing new life into good initiatives and legacy projects so you think about OpenStack okay OpenStack gets a nice segmented approach is now clear with a where the swim lanes are you're an app developer you go over here and if you are a network and infrastructure guy you're going here but middleware a from talk to the Red Hat guys here we talk to IBM those legacy and apps can put a container around it and don't have to be thrown away and take their natural course now I think it's gonna be a three line through this holy a second life is for legacy and stuff and then to cloud is and it's in second inning because now you have the enablement for cloud your reaction the enablement of cloud Ibn iBM has cloud and then the market shares of nm who you believe they're not in that they're in the top three but they're not double digits according to synergy research and he bought us a little bit higher but still if you compare public cloud they're small they look at IBM's and tire and small base and saying if they have a specialty cloud that can be assembled quit Nellie yeah and scaled and maybe instantly successfully overnight yeah I think a few years ago you know there was a lot different always a few years back it always looks confusing right a few years back we were still arguing public cloud private cloud as private cloud ed is what is a true private cloud is that even valuable I still see people on Twitter making fun of everything anybody who's not 100% into the full public cloud which means they must not have talked to you know a lot of IT folks who have to business to run today so I think you're saying it's a it's a it's a multivalent world multi-cloud there's going to be differentiated clouds there's going to be operational clouds there's gonna be financial clouds and just it's it seems clear that you know from the perspective of right now here in San Francisco and 2018 that that you know the purpose of public-private hybrid seems pretty clear just like the purpose of like I said we're gonna in two weeks we'll be an openstack summit I mean the purpose of that seems pretty clear it's it's funny it's like I had this argument and each Assateague he thinks everything should go the public cloud goes eaten has one of the public clouds but he's kind of right and I and I and we talked about this way I with him I said if everything is running cloud operation we're talking about cloud ops we're talking about how its managed how its deployed code bases across the board if everything is clarified from an OP raishin standpoint the Dearing on Prem and cloud and IOT edge is there's no difference stuffs moving around so you almost treats a data center as an edge network so now it's sexually all cloud in my mind so then and also you do have to keep in mind time time horizons right anybody who has to do work the today this quarter right has to keep in mind what's what what portfolio of business deeds and tools do I have right now versus what it's gonna look like in a few years all right so I want to get your thoughts on your walk away from today I'll start my walk away from day one was talking some of the practitioners Macquarie Bank and Amadeus to me they're a tell signed the canary in the coalmine what's happening horizontally scalable synchronous infrastructure the new model is here now we're seeing them saying things like it's a streaming world not just Kafka for streaming data streaming services levels of granularity that at workers traded with containers and kubernetes up and down the stack to me architects who think that way will have a preferred advantage over everybody else that to me was like okay we're seeing it play out I guess I totally agree right the future isn't evenly distributed my takeaway though is there's certainly a future here and the people we talked to today are doing real-world enterprise scale multi-cloud micro services and modern architectures incorporating their legacy applications and components and that and they're just doing it and they're not even breaking a sweat so I think IT has really changed ok day one coverage continues day two tomorrow we have three days of wall-to-wall coverage day two and then finally day three Thursday here in San Francisco this is the cubes live coverage go to the cube dotnet to check out all the videos they're gonna be going up as soon as they are done live here and check out all the cube alumni and check out Silicon angle comm for all news coverage then of course you got tech reckoning Jon's company's the co-founder of for John Fourier and John Shroyer that's day one in the books thanks for watching see you tomorrow