>>Hello and welcome to the power of and where H P E Aruba and Pensando are changing the game the way customers scale at the cloud and what's next in the evolution in switching everyone. I'm john ferrier with the Cuban. I'm here with Shane Corbyn, Director of Technical Product management. Pensando Williams show vice president Product management, Aruba HP Gentlemen, thank you for coming on and doing a deep dive and and going into the big news. So the first question I want to ask you guys is um, what do you guys see from a market customer perspective that kicked this project off? Amazing results over the past year or so. Where did it all come from? >>It's a great question, John So when we were doing our homework, there were actually three very clear customer challenges. First, security threats were largely spawned with from within the perimeter. In fact, four star highlights that 80% of threats originate within the internal network. Secondly, workloads are largely distributed, creating a ton of east west traffic and then lastly, network services such as firewalls load balancers. VPN aggregators are expensive. They're centralized and then ultimately result in service changing complexity. So everyone, >>so go ahead. Change. >>Yeah. Additionally, when we spoke to our customers after launching initially the distributed services platform, these compliance challenges clearly became apparent to us and while they saw the architectural value of adopting what the largest public cloud providers have done by putting a smart making each compute note to provide these state full services. Enterprise customers were still were struggling with the need to upgrade fleets and Brownfield servers and the associated per node cost of adding a spark nick to every compute node. Typically the traffic volumes for on a personal basis within an enterprise data center are significantly lower than cloud. Thus we saw an opportunity here to in conjunction with Aruba developed a new category of switching product um, to share the crossing capabilities of our unique intellectual property around our DPU across a rack of servers that Net Net delivers the same set of services through a new category of platform, enabling a distributed services architecture and ultimately addressing the compliance and uh, TCO generating huge TCO and ri for customers. >>You know, one of the things that we've been reporting on with you guys as well as the cloud scale, this is the volume of data and just the performance and scale I think the timing of the, of this partnership and the product development is right on point. You got the edge right around the corner more, more distributed nature of cloud operations, huge, huge change in the marketplace. So great timing on the origination story there. Great stuff. Tell me more about the platform itself. The details what's under the hood, the hardware. Os, what are the specs? >>Yeah, so we started with a very familiar premise, Ruba customers are already leveraging C X with an edge to cloud, common operating model and deploying Leaf and spy networks. Plus we're excited to introduce the industry's first distributed services switch where the first configuration has 48 25 gig ports with 100 gig uplinks running Aruba C X cloud native operating system. Pensando A six and software inside enabling layer four through seven staple services you want to elaborate on. >>Let me elaborate on that a little further. Um, you know, as we spoke, existing platforms and how customers were seeking to address these challenges were inherently limited by the diocese and that thus limited their scale and performance and ability in traditional switching platforms to deliver truly stable functions in in a switching platform. This was, you know, architecturally from the ground up. When we developed our DPU 1st and 2nd generation, we delivered it or we we we built it with staples services in in mind from the Gecko. We we leverage to clean state designed with RP four program with GPU, we evolved to our seven nanometer based DPU right now, which is essentially enabling software and silicon and this has generated a new level of performance scale flexibility and capability in terms of services this serves as the foundation for or 200 gig card where we're taking the largest cloud providers into production for. And the DPU itself is designed inherently to process state track state connections and state will flow is a very, very large scale without impacting performance. And in fact, the two of these deep you component service, their services foundation of the C X 10-K And this is how we enable states of functions in a switching platform. Functions like stable network network fire walling, stable segmentation, enhance programmable telemetry. Which we believe will bring a whole lot of value to our customers. And this is a, a platform that's inherently programmable from the ground up. We can we can build and and leverages platform to build new use cases around encryption, enabling state for load balancing, stable nash to name a few. But the key message here is this is this is a platform with the next generation of architecture is in mind is programmed but at all levels of the stack and that's what makes it fundamentally different than anything else. >>I want to just double click on that if you don't mind before we get to the competitive question because I think you brought up the state thing, I think this is worth calling out if you guys don't mind commenting more on this state issue because this is big cloud. Native developers right now want speed, they're shifting left at the Ci cd pipeline with program ability. So going down and having the program ability and having state is a really big deal. Can you guys just expand on that a little bit more and why it's important and how hard it really is to pull off. >>I I can start I guess. Well um it's very hard to pull off because of the sheer amount of connections you need to track when you're developing something like a state, full firewall or state from load balancer. A key component of that is managing the connections at very, very large scale and understanding what's happening with those connections at scale without impacting application performance. And this is fundamentally different. A traditional switching platform regardless of how it's deployed today in a six don't typically process and manage state like this. Memory resources within the shape aren't sufficient. Um the policy scale that you can implement on a platform aren't sufficient to address and fundamentally enable deployable fire walling or load balancing or other state services. >>That's exactly right. So the other kind of key point here is that if you think about the sophistication of different security threats, it does really require you to be able to look at the entire packet and more so be able to look at the entire flow and be able to log that history so that you can get much better heuristics around different anomalies. Security threats that are emerging today. >>That's a great great point. Thanks for bringing that extra extra point out, I would just add to this, we're reporting this all the time when silicon angle in the cube is that you know, the you know, the the automation wave that's coming with around data, you know, it's the center of data now, not date as soon as we heard earlier on with the presentation data drives automation having that enabled with state is a real big deal. So I think that's really worth calling out now. I got to ask the competition question, how is this different? I mean this is an evolution, I would say it's a revolution you guys are being humble um but how is this different from what customers can deploy today >>architecturally, if you take a look at it? So we've, we've spoken about the technology and fundamentally in the platform, what's unique in the architecture but foundational e when customers deploy stable services, they're typically deployed leveraging traditional big box appliances for east west or workload based agents which seek to implement stable security for each East west architectural, what we're enabling is staples services like fire walling, segmentation can scale with the fabric and are delivered at the optimal point for east west which is through the Leaf for access their of the network and we do this for any type of workload. Being deployed on a virtualized compute node being deployed on a containerized, our worker node being deployed on bare metal agnostic of topology. It can be in the access layer of a three tier design and a data center. It can be in the leaf layer of the excellent VPN based fabric. But the goal is an all centrally managed to a single point of orchestration control which William we'll talk about shortly. The goal of this is to to drive down the TCO of your data center as a whole by allowing you to retire legacy appliances that are deployed in in east west role, not utilized host based agents and thus save a whole lot of money. And we've modeled on the order of 60 to 70% in terms of savings in terms of the traditional data center pod design of 1000 compute nodes which will be publishing and as as we go forward, additional services as we mentioned like encryption, this platform has the capability to terminate up to 800 gigs of line, right encryption, I P sec VPN per platform state will not load balancing and this is all functionality will be adding to this existing platform because it's programmable as we mentioned from the ground up. >>What are some of the use cases lead and one of the top use case. What's the low hanging fruit? And where does this go? Service providers enterprise, what are the types of customers you guys see implementing? >>Yeah, that's what's really exciting about the C X 10,000 we actually see customer interest from all types of different markets, whether it be higher education service providers to financial services, basically all enterprises verticals with private cloud or edge data centers for example, could be a hospital, a big box retailer or Coehlo. Such as an equity. It's so it's really the 6 10,000 that creates a new switching category enabling staple services in that leaf node, right at the workload, unifying network and security automation policy management. Second, the C X 10,000 greatly improved security posture and eliminates the need for hair pinning east west traffic all the way back to the centralized plants. Lastly, a Shane highlighted there's a 70% Tco savings by eliminating that appliance brawl and ultimately collapsing the network security operations. >>I love the category creation vibe here. Love it. And obviously the technical and the cloud line is great. But how do the customers manage all this? Okay. You got a new category. I just put the box in, throw away some other one. I mean how does this all get down? How does the customers manage all this? >>Yeah. So we're looking to build on top of the ribbon fabric composer. It's another familiar sight for our customers which already provides for compute storage and network automation with a broad ecosystem integrations such as being where the sphere be center as with Nutanix prison And so aligned with the c. x. 10,000 at G. A. now the aruba fabric composer unifies security and policy orchestration and management with the ability to find firewall policies efficiently and provide that telemetry to collectors such a slump. >>So the customer environments right now involve a lot of multi vendor and new frameworks cloud native. How does this fit into the customer's existing environment? The ecosystem. How do they get that get going here? >>Yeah, great question. Um our customers can get going is we we built a flexible platform that can be deployed in either Greenfield or brownfield. Obviously it's a best of breed architecture for distributed services were building in conjunction with the ruble but if customers want to gradually integrate this into their existing environments and they're using other vendors, spines or course this can be inserted seamlessly as a leaf or an access access to your switch to deliver the exact same set of services within that architecture. So it plugs seamlessly in because it supports all the standard control playing protocols, VX, Lenny, VPN and traditional attitude three tier designs easily. Now for any enterprise solution deployment, it's critical that you build a holistic ecosystem around it. It's clear that this will get customer deployments and the ecosystem being diverse and rich is very, very important and as part of our integrations with the controller, we're building a broad suite of integrations across threat detection application dependency mapping, Semen sore develops infrastructure as code tools like ants, Poland to answer the entire form. Um, it's clear if you look at these categories of integrations, you know XDR or threat detection requires full telemetry from within the data center. It's been hard to accomplish to date because you typically need agents on, on your compute nodes to give you the visibility into what's going on or firewalls for east west flaws. Now our platform can natively provide full visibility in dolphins, East west in the data center and this can become the source of telemetry truth that these Ml XT or engines required to work. The other aspects of ecosystem are around application dependency mapping the single core challenge with deploying segmentation. East West is understanding the rules to put in place right first, is how do you insert the service uh service device in such a way that it won't add more complexity. We don't add any complexity because we're in line natively. How do we understand that allow you to build the rules are necessary to do segmentation. We integrate with tools like guard corps, we provide our flow logs a source of data and they can provide rural recommendations and policy recommendations for customers around. We're building integrations around steve and soar with tools like Splunk and elastic elastic search that will allow net hops and sec ops teams to visualize, train and manage the services delivered by the C X 10-K. And the other aspect of ecosystem from a security standpoint is clearly how do I get policy from these traditional appliances and enforce them on this next generation architecture that you've built that can enable state health services. So we're building integrations with tools like toughen analgesic third party sources of policy that we can ingest and enforcing the infrastructure allowing you to gradually migrate to this new architecture over time >>it's really a cloud native switch, you solve people's problems pain points but yet positioned for growth. I mean it sounds that's my takeaway. But I gotta ask you guys both what's the takeaway for the customers because it's not that simple for that. We have a complicated >>Environment. I think, I think it's really simple every 10 years or so. We see major evolutions in the data center in the switching environment. We do believe we've created a new category with the distributed services, distributed services, switch, delivering cloud scale distribute services where the local where the workloads were side greatly simplifying network security provisions and operations with the Yoruba fabric composer while improving security posture and the TCO. But that's not all folks. It's a journey. Right. >>Yeah, it's absolutely a journey. And this is the first step in in a long journey with a great partner like Aruba, there's other platforms, 100 or four gig hardware platforms we're looking at and then there's additional services that we can enable over time allowing customers to drive even more Tco value out of the platform and the architectural services like encryption for securing the cloud on ramp services like state for load balancing to deploy east west in the data center and you know, holistically that's that's the goal, deliver value for customers and we believe we have an architecture and a platform and this is the first step in a long journey. It's >>a great way. I just ask one final final question for both of you. As product leaders, you've got to be excited having a category creation product here in this market, this big wave. What's what's your thoughts? >>Yeah, exactly. Right. It doesn't happen that often. And so we're all in, it's it's exciting to be able to work with a great team like Sandu and chain here. And so we're really excited about this launch. >>Yeah, it's awesome. The team is great. It's a great partnership between and santo and Aruba and you know, we we look forward to delivering value for john customers. >>Thank you both for sharing under the hood and more details on the product. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you. Okay, >>the next evolution of switching, I'm john furrier here with the power of An HP, Aruba and Pensando, changing the game the way customers scale up in the cloud and networking. Thanks for watching. Mhm.

(cheerful music) >> Hello everyone, welcome to today's session of theCUBE's presentation of AWS Startup Showcase, New Breakthroughs in DevOps, Data Analytics, Cloud Management Tools, featuring Okera from the cloud management migration track. I'm John Furrier, your host. We've got two great special guests today, Nong Li, founder and CTO of Okera, and Sanjeev Mohan, principal @SanjMo, and former research vice president of big data and advanced analytics at Gartner. He's a legend, been around the industry for a long time, seen the big data trends from the past, present, and knows the future. Got a great lineup here. Gentlemen, thank you for this, so, life in the trenches, lessons learned across compliance, cloud migration, analytics, and use cases for Fortune 1000s. Thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having us. >> So Sanjeev, great to see you, I know you've seen this movie, I was saying that in the open, you've at Gartner seen all the visionaries, the leaders, you know everything about this space. It's changing extremely fast, and one of the big topics right out of the gate is not just innovation, we'll get to that, that's the fun part, but it's the regulatory compliance and audit piece of it. It's keeping people up at night, and frankly if not done right, slows things down. This is a big part of the showcase here, is to solve these problems. Share us your thoughts, what's your take on this wide-ranging issue? >> So, thank you, John, for bringing this up, and I'm so happy you mentioned the fact that, there's this notion that it can slow things down. Well I have to say that the old way of doing governance slowed things down, because it was very much about control and command. But the new approach to data governance is actually in my opinion, it's liberating data. If you want to democratize or monetize, whatever you want to call it, you cannot do it 'til you know you can trust said data and it's governed in some ways, so data governance has actually become very interesting, and today if you want to talk about three different areas within compliance regulatory, for example, we all know about the EU GDPR, we know California has CCPA, and in fact California is now getting even a more stringent version called CPRA in a couple of years, which is more aligned to GDPR. That is a first area we know we need to comply to that, we don't have any way out. But then, there are other areas, there is insider trading, there is how you secure the data that comes from third parties, you know, vendors, partners, suppliers, so Nong, I'd love to hand it over to you, and see if you can maybe throw some light into how our customers are handling these use cases. >> Yeah, absolutely, and I love what you said about balancing agility and liberating, in the face of what may be seen as things that slow you down. So we work with customers across verticals with old and new regulations, so you know, you brought up GDPR. One of our clients is using this to great effect to power their ecosystem. They are a very large retail company that has operations and customers across the world, obviously the importance of GDPR, and the regulations that imposes on them are very top of mind, and at the same time, being able to do effective targeting analytics on customer information is equally critical, right? So they're exactly at that spot where they need this customer insight for powering their business, and then the regulatory concerns are extremely prevalent for them. So in the context of GDPR, you'll hear about things like consent management and right to be forgotten, right? I, as a customer of that retailer should say "I don't want my information used for this purpose," right? "Use it for this, but not this." And you can imagine at a very, very large scale, when you have a billion customers, managing that, all the data you've collected over time through all of your devices, all of your telemetry, really, really challenging. And they're leveraging Okera embedded into their analytics platform so they can do both, right? Their data scientists and analysts who need to do everything they're doing to power the business, not have to think about these kind of very granular customer filtering requirements that need to happen, and then they leverage us to do that. So that's kind of new, right, GDPR, relatively new stuff at this point, but we obviously also work with customers that have regulations from a long long time ago, right? So I think you also mentioned insider trading and that supply chain, so we'll talk to customers, and they want really data-driven decisions on their supply chain, everything about their production pipeline, right? They want to understand all of that, and of course that makes sense, whether you're the CFO, if you're going to make business decisions, you need that information readily available, and supply chains as we know get more and more and more complex, we have more and more integrated into manufacturing and other verticals. So that's your, you're a little bit stuck, right? You want to be data-driven on those supply chain analytics, but at the same time, knowing the details of all the supply chain across all of your dependencies exposes your internal team to very high blackout periods or insider trading concerns, right? For example, if you knew Apple was buying a bunch of something, that's maybe information that only a select few people can have, and the way that manifests into data policies, 'cause you need the ability to have very, very scalable, per employee kind of scalable data restriction policies, so they can do their job easier, right? If we talk about speeding things up, instead of a very complex process for them to get approved, and approved on SEC regulations, all that kind of stuff, you can now go give them access to the part of the supply chain that they need, and no more, and limit their exposure and the company's exposure and all of that kind of stuff. So one of our customers able to do this, getting two orders of magnitude, a 100x reduction in the policies to manage the system like that. >> When I hear you talking like that, I think the old days of "Oh yeah, regulatory, it kind of slows down innovation, got to go faster," pretty basic variables, not a lot of combination of things to check. Now with cloud, there seems to be combinations, Sanjeev, because how complicated has the regulatory compliance and audit environment gotten in the past few years, because I hear security in a supply chain, I hear insider threats, I mean these are security channels, not just compliance department G&A kind of functions. You're talking about large-scale, potentially combinations of access, distribution, I mean it seems complicated. How much more complicated is it now, just than it was a few years ago? >> So, you know the way I look at it is, I'm just mentioning these companies just as an example, when PayPal or Ebay, all these companies started, they started in California. Anybody who ever did business on Ebay or PayPal, guess where that data was? In the US in some data center. Today you cannot do it. Today, data residency laws are really tough, and so now these organizations have to really understand what data needs to remain where. On top of that, we now have so many regulations. You know, earlier on if you were healthcare, you needed to be HIPAA compliant, or banking PCI DSS, but today, in the cloud, you really need to know, what data I have, what sensitive data I have, how do I discover it? So that data discovery becomes really important. What roles I have, so for example, let's say I work for a bank in the US, and I decide to move to Germany. Now, the old school is that a new rule will be created for me, because of German... >> John: New email address, all these new things happen, right? >> Right, exactly. So you end up with this really, a mass of rules and... And these are all static. >> Rules and tools, oh my god. >> Yeah. So Okera actually makes a lot of this dynamic, which reduces your cloud migration overhead, and Nong used some great examples, in fact, sorry if I take just a second, without mentioning any names, there's one of the largest banks in the world is going global in the digital space for the first time, and they're taking Okera with them. So... >> But what's the point? This is my next topic in cloud migration, I want to bring this up because, complexity, when you're in that old school kind of data center, waterfall, these old rules and tools, you have to roll this out, and it's a pain in the butt for everybody, it's a hassle, huge hassle. Cloud gives the agility, we know that, and cloud's becoming more secure, and I think now people see the on-premise, certainly things that'd be on-premises for secure things, I get that, but when you start getting into agility, and you now have cloud regions, you can start being more programmatic, so I want to get you guys' thoughts on the cloud migration, how companies who are now lifting and shifting, replatforming, what's the refactoring beyond that, because you can replatform in the cloud, and still some are kind of holding back on that. Then when you're in the cloud, the ones that are winning, the companies that are winning are the ones that are refactoring in the cloud. Doing things different with new services. Sanjeev, you start. >> Yeah, so you know, in fact lot of people tell me, "You know, we are just going to lift and shift into the cloud." But you're literally using cloud as a data center. You still have all the, if I may say, junk you had on-prem, you just moved it into the cloud, and now you're paying for it. In cloud, nothing is free. Every storage, every processing, you're going to pay for it. The most successful companies are the ones that are replatforming, they are taking advantage of the platform as a service or software as a service, so that includes things like, you pay as you go, you pay for exactly the amount you use, so you scale up and scale down or scale out and scale in, pretty quickly, you know? So you're handling that demand, so without replatforming, you are not really utilizing your- >> John: It's just hosting. >> Yeah, you're just hosting. >> It's basically hosting if you're not doing anything right there. >> Right. The reason why people sometimes resist to replatform, is because there's a hidden cost that we don't really talk about, PaaS adds 3x to IaaS cost. So, some organizations that are very mature, and they have a few thousand people in the IT department, for them, they're like "No, we just want to run it in the cloud, we have the expertise, and it's cheaper for us." But in the long run, to get the most benefit, people should think of using cloud as a service. >> Nong what's your take, because you see examples of companies, I'll just call one out, Snowflake for instance, they're essentially a data warehouse in the cloud, they refactored and they replatformed, they have a competitive advantage with the scale, so they have things that others don't have, that just hosting. Or even on-premise. The new model developing where there's real advantages, and how should companies think about this when they have to manage these data lakes, and they have to manage all these new access methods, but they want to maintain that operational stability and control and growth? >> Yeah, so. No? Yeah. >> There's a few topics that are all (indistinct) this topic. (indistinct) enterprises moving to the cloud, they do this maybe for some cost savings, but a ton of it is agility, right? The motor that the business can run at is just so much faster. So we'll work with companies in the context of cloud migration for data, where they might have a data warehouse they've been using for 20 years, and building policies over that time, right? And it's taking a long time to go proof of access and those kind of things, made more sense, right? If it took you months to procure a physical infrastructure, get machines shipped to your data center, then this data access taking so long feels okay, right? That's kind of the same rate that everything is moving. In the cloud, you can spin up new infrastructure instantly, so you don't want approvals for getting policies, creating rules, all that stuff that Sanjeev was talking about, that being slow is a huge, huge problem. So this is a very common environment that we see where they're trying to do that kind of thing. And then, for replatforming, again, they've been building these roles and processes and policies for 20 years. What they don't want to do is take 20 years to go migrate all that stuff into the cloud, right? That's probably an experience nobody wants to repeat, and frankly for many of them, people who did it originally may or may not be involved in this kind of effort. So we work with a lot of companies like that, they have their, they want stability, they got to have the business running as normal, they got to get moving into the new infrastructure, doing it in a new way that, you know, with all the kind of lessons learned, so, as Sanjeev said, one of these big banks that we work with, that classical story of on-premise data warehousing, maybe a little bit of Hadoop, moved onto AWS, S3, Snowflake, that kind of setup, extremely intricate policies, but let's go reimagine how we can do this faster, right? What we like to talk about is, you're an organization, you need a design that, if you onboarded 1000 more data users, that's got to be way, way easier than the first 10 you onboarded, right? You got to get it to be easier over time, in a really, really significant way. >> Talk about the data authorization safety factor, because I can almost imagine all the intricacies of these different tools creates specialism amongst people who operate them. And each one might have their own little authorization nuance. Trend is not to have that siloed mentality. What's your take on clients that want to just "Hey, you know what? I want to have the maximum agility, but I don't want to get caught in the weeds on some of these tripwires around access and authorization." >> Yeah, absolutely, I think it's real important to get the balance of it, right? Because if you are an enterprise, or if you have diversive teams, you want them to have the ability to use tools as best of breed for their purpose, right? But you don't want to have it be so that every tool has its own access and provisioning and whatever, that's definitely going to be a security, or at least, a lot of friction for you to get things going. So we think about that really hard, I think we've seen great success with things like SSO and Okta, right? Unifying authentication. We think there's a very, very similar thing about to happen with authorization. You want that single control plane that can integrate with all the tools, and still get the best of what you need, but it's much, much easier (indistinct). >> Okta's a great example, if people don't want to build their own thing and just go with that, same with what you guys are doing. That seems to be the dots that are connecting you, Sanjeev. The ease of use, but yet the stability factor. >> Right. Yeah, because John, today I may want to bring up a SQL editor to go into Snowflake, just as an example. Tomorrow, I may want to use the Azure Bot, you know? I may not even want to go to Snowflake, I may want to go to an underlying piece of data, or I may use Power BI, you know, for some reason, and come from Azure side, so the point is that, unless we are able to control, in some sort of a centralized manner, we will not get that consistency. And security you know is all or nothing. You cannot say "Well, I secured my Snowflake, but if you come through HTFS, Hadoop, or some, you know, that is outside of my realm, or my scope," what's the point? So that is why it is really important to have a watertight way, in fact I'm using just a few examples, maybe tomorrow I decide to use a data catalog, or I use Denodo as my data virtualization and I run a query. I'm the same identity, but I'm using different tools. I may use it from home, over VPN, or I may use it from the office, so you want this kind of flexibility, all encompassed in a policy, rather than a separate rule if you do this and this, if you do that, because then you end up with literally thousands of rules. >> And it's never going to stop, either, it's like fashion, the next tool's going to come out, it's going to be cool, and people are going to want to use it, again, you don't want to have to then move the train from the compliance side this way or that way, it's a lot of hassle, right? So we have that one capability, you can bring on new things pretty quickly. Nong, am I getting it right, this is kind of like the trend, that you're going to see more and more tools and/or things that are relevant or, certain use cases that might justify it, but yet, AppSec review, compliance review, I mean, good luck with that, right? >> Yeah, absolutely, I mean we certainly expect tools to continue to get more and more diverse, and better, right? Most innovation in the data space, and I think we... This is a great time for that, a lot of things that need to happen, and so on and so forth. So I think one of the early goals of the company, when we were just brainstorming, is we don't want data teams to not be able to use the tools because it doesn't have the right security (indistinct), right? Often those tools may not be focused on that particular area. They're great at what they do, but we want to make sure they're enabled, they do some enterprise investments, they see broader adoption much easier. A lot of those things. >> And I can hear the sirens in the background, that's someone who's not using your platform, they need some help there. But that's the case, I mean if you don't get this right, there are some consequences, and I think one of the things I would like to bring up on next track is, to talk through with you guys is, the persona pigeonhole role, "Oh yeah, a data person, the developer, the DevOps, the SRE," you start to see now, developers and with cloud developers, and data folks, people, however they get pigeonholed, kind of blending in, okay? You got data services, you got analytics, you got data scientists, you got more democratization, all these things are being kicked around, but the notion of a developer now is a data developer, because cloud is about DevOps, data is now a big part of it, it's not just some department, it's actually blending in. Just a cultural shift, can you guys share your thoughts on this trend of data people versus developers now becoming kind of one, do you guys see this happening, and if so, how? >> So when, John, I started my career, I was a DBA, and then a data architect. Today, I think you cannot have a DBA who's not a developer. That's just my opinion. Because there is so much of CICD, DevOps, that happens today, and you know, you write your code in Python, you put it in version control, you deploy using Jenkins, you roll back if there's a problem. And then, you are interacting, you're building your data to be consumed as a service. People in the past, you would have a thick client that would connect to the database over TCP/IP. Today, people don't want to connect over TCP/IP necessarily, they want to go by HTTP. And they want an API gateway in the middle. So, if you're a data architect or DBA, now you have to worry about, "I have a REST API call that's coming in, how am I going to secure that, and make sure that people are allowed to see that?" And that was just yesterday. >> Exactly. Got to build an abstraction layer. You got to build an abstraction layer. The old days, you have to worry about schema, and do all that, it was hard work back then, but now, it's much different. You got serverless, functions are going to show way... It's happening. >> Correct, GraphQL, and semantic layer, that just blows me away because, it used to be, it was all in database, then we took it out of database and we put it in a BI tool. So we said, like BusinessObjects started this whole trend. So we're like "Let's put the semantic layer there," well okay, great, but that was when everything was surrounding BusinessObjects and Oracle Database, or some other database, but today what if somebody brings Power BI or Tableau or Qlik, you know? Now you don't have a semantic layer access. So you cannot have it in the BI layer, so you move it down to its own layer. So now you've got a semantic layer, then where do you store your metrics? Same story repeats, you have a metrics layer, then the data centers want to do feature engineering, where do you store your features? You have a feature store. And before you know, this stack has disaggregated over and over and over, and then you've got layers and layers of specialization that are happening, there's query accelerators like Dremio or Trino, so you've got your data here, which Nong is trying really hard to protect, and then you've got layers and layers and layers of abstraction, and networks are fast, so the end user gets great service, but it's a nightmare for architects to bring all these things together. >> How do you tame the complexity? What's the bottom line? >> Nong? >> Yeah, so, I think... So there's a few things you need to do, right? So, we need to re-think how we express security permanence, right? I think you guys have just maybe in passing (indistinct) talked about creating all these rules and all that kind of stuff, that's been the way we've done things forever. We get to think about policies and mechanisms that are much more dynamic, right? You need to really think about not having to do any additional work, for the new things you add to the system. That's really, really core to solving the complexity problem, right? 'Cause that gets you those orders of magnitude reduction, system's got to be more expressive and map to those policies. That's one. And then second, it's got to be implemented at the right layer, right, to Sanjeev's point, close to the data, and it can service all of those applications and use cases at the same time, and have that uniformity and breadth of support. So those two things have to happen. >> Love this universal data authorization vision that you guys have. Super impressive, we had a CUBE Conversation earlier with Nick Halsey, who's a veteran in the industry, and he likes it. That's a good sign, 'cause he's seen a lot of stuff, too, Sanjeev, like yourself. This is a new thing, you're seeing compliance being addressed, and with programmatic, I'm imagining there's going to be bots someday, very quickly with AI that's going to scale that up, so they kind of don't get in the innovation way, they can still get what they need, and enable innovation. You've got cloud migration, which is only going faster and faster. Nong, you mentioned speed, that's what CloudOps is all about, developers want speed, not things in days or hours, they want it in minutes and seconds. And then finally, ultimately, how's it scale up, how does it scale up for the people operating and/or programming? These are three major pieces. What happens next? Where do we go from here, what's, the customer's sitting there saying "I need help, I need trust, I need scale, I need security." >> So, I just wrote a blog, if I may diverge a bit, on data observability. And you know, so there are a lot of these little topics that are critical, DataOps is one of them, so to me data observability is really having a transparent view of, what is the state of your data in the pipeline, anywhere in the pipeline? So you know, when we talk to these large banks, these banks have like 1000, over 1000 data pipelines working every night, because they've got that hundred, 200 data sources from which they're bringing data in. Then they're doing all kinds of data integration, they have, you know, we talked about Python or Informatica, or whatever data integration, data transformation product you're using, so you're combining this data, writing it into an analytical data store, something's going to break. So, to me, data observability becomes a very critical thing, because it shows me something broke, walk me down the pipeline, so I know where it broke. Maybe the data drifted. And I know Okera does a lot of work in data drift, you know? So this is... Nong, jump in any time, because I know we have use cases for that. >> Nong, before you get in there, I just want to highlight a quick point. I think you're onto something there, Sanjeev, because we've been reporting, and we believe, that data workflows is intellectual property. And has to be protected. Nong, go ahead, your thoughts, go ahead. >> Yeah, I mean, the observability thing is critically important. I would say when you want to think about what's next, I think it's really effectively bridging tools and processes and systems and teams that are focused on data production, with the data analysts, data scientists, that are focused on data consumption, right? I think bridging those two, which cover a lot of the topics we talked about, that's kind of where security almost meets, that's kind of where you got to draw it. I think for observability and pipelines and data movement, understanding that is essential. And I think broadly, on all of these topics, where all of us can be better, is if we're able to close the loop, get the feedback loop of success. So data drift is an example of the loop rarely being closed. It drifts upstream, and downstream users can take forever to figure out what's going on. And we'll have similar examples related to buy-ins, or data quality, all those kind of things, so I think that's really a problem that a lot of us should think about. How do we make sure that loop is closed as quickly as possible? >> Great insight. Quick aside, as the founder CTO, how's life going for you, you feel good? I mean, you started a company, doing great, it's not drifting, it's right in the stream, mainstream, right in the wheelhouse of where the trends are, you guys have a really crosshairs on the real issues, how you feeling, tell us a little bit about how you see the vision. >> Yeah, I obviously feel really good, I mean we started the company a little over five years ago, there are kind of a few things that we bet would happen, and I think those things were out of our control, I don't think we would've predicted GDPR security and those kind of things being as prominent as they are. Those things have really matured, probably as best as we could've hoped, so that feels awesome. Yeah, (indistinct) really expanded in these years, and it feels good. Feels like we're in the right spot. >> Yeah, it's great, data's competitive advantage, and certainly has a lot of issues. It could be a blocker if not done properly, and you're doing great work. Congratulations on your company. Sanjeev, thanks for kind of being my cohost in this segment, great to have you on, been following your work, and you continue to unpack it at your new place that you started. SanjMo, good to see your Twitter handle taking on the name of your new firm, congratulations. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you so much, such a pleasure. >> Appreciate it. Okay, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, you're watching today's session presentation of AWS Startup Showcase, featuring Okera, a hot startup, check 'em out, great solution, with a really great concept. Thanks for watching. (calm music)

>>from around the globe. >>It's the cube >>covering fortunate security summit brought to you by ford in it. >>Welcome back to the cubes coverage, affording that security summit at the ford championship here in napa. I'm lisa martin and I'm very pleased to welcome back to the cube kenzi founder and chairman and ceo affording that, ken. Welcome back to the program. >>Thank you is uh, we're happy to be here after almost two years and uh, >>I know it's great to see you in person. I was saying before we went live, I forgot how tall you are. So this is a great event. But I want you to talk to me a little bit about some of the amazing growth. The Fortinet has seen 500,000 customers close to 30% year on year growth continuing to post solid earnings stock is more than double this year. What are some of the things that you attribute this group to and what do you think in your opinion differentiates format? >>I think some of the more strategic long term investment we made started paying off like uh, we're still the only company actually develop basic chip which can making a huge computing power advantage compared to using software to all the security function computing Because security tend to need about like 1300 times more company in power to process the same data as a routing switching. So that's where for the network security definitely a chap, a huge advantage And we invested very early and take a long term and also a big investment and so far started paying off the other thing we also keeping a lot of innovation and the internal organic growth for the company instead of do a lot of acquisition and that's also started making all these different products integrate well ultimately to get well. And that's also driving a huge growth, not just that was security, but also we see the fabric also has global fast, >>interesting. So you're really keeping it organic, which is not common a lot of these days we see a lot of acquisitions, but one of the things, a lot of growth, another thing that we do know that's growing is the threat landscape I was mentioning before we went live that I spoke with Derek Manky a couple times this summer and John Madison and the global threat landscape report showing ransomware up nearly 11 times in the last year. Of course we had this rapid transition to work from home and all these devices on accessing corporate networks from home. Talk to me about some of the security challenges that you're helping customers deal with. >>I think during the pandemic, definitely you see a lot of security issues that come up because work from home with your remote access a lot of important information, a lot of important data there At the same time. The ransomware attacks studying like a mentioning 11 times compared to like one or two years ago all this driving all there's a new technology for security. So now you cannot just secure the board anymore. So you have a secure the whole infrastructure. Both internal to a lot of internal segmentation And also go outside security when like I see when the 5G. Connection and how to secure work from home and they trust their trust access environment all these drive a lot of security growth. So we see the yeah it's a it's a pretty healthy market >>it's definitely a healthy market that's one thing looking at it from that lens. What are some of the customer conversation? How have the customer conversations changed? Are you now talking with different levels and organizations security Being a board level conversation discussion and talk to me about how those conversations have evolved. >>Security now become very important part of I. T. And uh pretty much all top one top two on the 80 spending now and the same time what to work from home or some other uh definitely seeing the board level conversation right now because you can see if there's a security issue for the company the damage could be huge. Right? So that's where the secure awareness especially ransomware is very very huge And plus the supply chain issues some other attack on the infrastructure. So we see a lot of security conversation in the bowl level in the Ceo in the in the executive level now compared to before more I. T. Conversation. So it's to drive the huge awareness of security and that's also we see everybody citing concerns security now. >>But I'm sure I imagine that's across every industry. Yes. >>Yeah pretty much all the vertical right? And especially a lot of new area traditionally they don't have much security like some smb some consumer some traditional Ot IOT space now it's all security studying that very important for them now. >>So let's talk about, here we are. The security summit at the fortunate championship. Give me your perspective on the P. G. A. Ford in that relationship. >>Uh first I think it's a golf is also event sports especially during the epidemic that's probably become the most favorite spot. And for me also I'm a golfer for 30 years. Never market golfer but I love the sport on the other side we see sometimes it's uh working with a lot of a customer a lot of a partner they behave if we can combine some business and there was certain like activity especially outdoor that's also be great. And also helping Brandon and that's another way we can contribute back to the community. So they say hey then then that's that's the first time for us. We just love it gets going. >>It's great to be outdoors right at 40 minutes doing an event outdoors showing that yes you can do that safely. But also I also hear from some of your other team members that it's a very culturally synergistic relationship. The pgn format. >>Yes. Exactly. Yeah that's where we love this golf and especially working with a different partner and different partner and also all the team working together. So it's a team sport kind of on the other side it's all do and enjoy a combined working uh activity altogether. Everybody love it. >>Something that so many of us have missed Ken for the last 18 months or so. So we're at the security summit, there's over 300 technology leaders here. Talk to me about some of the main innovations that are being discussed. >>Uh definitely see security starting uh little covered whole infrastructure and uh especially in a lot of environment. Traditionally no security cannot be deployed like internal segmentation because internal network can be 10, 200 faster than the one connection. So it has to be deployed in the in the internal high speed environment whether inside the company or kind of inside the data center, inside the cloud on the other side, like a lot of one connection traditionally like whether they see one or the traditional like cuba more than the S E O. They also need to be combined with security and also in the zero trust access environment to really supporting work from home and also a lot of ot operation technology and a lot of other IOT space utility. All these different kind of like environment need to be supported, sometimes recognized environment. So we see security studying deport everywhere whether the new small city or the like connected car environment and we just see become more and more important. That's also kind of we studying what we call in a secure driven networking because traditionally you can see today's networking just give you the connectivity and speed so they treat everything kind of uh no difference but with security driven network and you can make in the networking decision move based on the security function, like a different application or different content, different user, different device, even different location, you can make a different kind of level decision so that we see is a huge demand right now can make the whole environment, whole infrastructure much secure. >>That's absolutely critical that pivot to work from home was pretty much overnight a year and a half ago and we still have so many people who are permanently remote, remote but probably will be permanently and a good amount will be hybrid in the future, some TBD amount. Uh and one of the challenges is of course you've got people suddenly from home you've got a pandemic. So you've got an emotional situation, you've got people multitasking, they've got kids at home trying to learn maybe spouses working, they're trying to do Everything by a video conferencing and collaboration tools and the security risks. There are huge and we've seen some of that obviously reflected in the nearly 11 x increase in ransomware but talk to me about what 14 announced yesterday with links is to help on that front in a considerable way. >>That's where we totally agree with you the work from home or kind of hybrid way to work in. Pretty much will become permanent. And that's where how to make a home environment more kind of supporting is a remote working especially like when you have a meeting, there are some other things going on in the whole activity and also sometimes data you access can be pretty important, pretty confidential. That's where whether in the zero trust environment or making the home connection more reliable, more secure. It's all very, very important for us. Uh, that's where we were happy to partner with Lynxes and some other partner here uh, to support in this hybrid working environment to make work from home more secure. And uh, as we see is a huge opportunity, >>huge opportunity and a lot of industries, I had the pleasure of talking with links to Ceo Harry do is just an hour or so ago and I asked him what are some of the vertical, since we know from a security and a ransomware perspective, it's just wide open. Right, Nobody's safe anymore from it. But what are some of the verticals that you think are going to be early adopters of this technology, government health care schools, >>I think pretty much all vertical start and see this work from home and it's very, very important for us. There's a few top vertical, traditionally finance service, uh, spend a lot of money healthcare, spend a lot of money on security. So they are still the same? We don't see that change March on the other side. A lot of high tech company, which also one of the big vertical for us now, I say maybe half or even more than half the employee they want to work for home. So that's also making they say uh they call home branch now, so it's just make home always just secure and reliable as a branch office and at the same time of Southern government and the sort of education vertical and they all started C is very, very important to do this, remote their trust access approach and the same time working with a lot of service providers to supporting this, both the D. N. A. And also the sassy approach. So we are only companies on the saturday company partner, a lot of IT service provider. We do believe long term of the service provider, they have the best location, best infrastructure, best team to supporting Sassy, which we also build ourselves. If customers don't have a service provider, we're happy to supporting them. But if they have a service provider, we also prefer, they go to service provider to supporting them because we also want to have a better ecosystem and making everybody like uh benefit has women's situation. So that's what we see is whether they trust no access or sassy. Very happy to work with all the partners to making everybody successful. >>And where our customers in that evolution from traditional VPN to Z T and a for example, are you seeing an acceleration of that given where we are in this interesting climate >>uh definitely because work from home is uh if you try to access use VPN, you basically open up all the network to the home environment which sometimes not quite secure, not very reliable. Right? So that's where using a Z T N A, you can access a certain application in a certain like environment there. And the same leverage ste when there's other huge technology advantage can lower the cost of the multiple link and balance among different costs, different connection and uh different reliability there. Uh it's a huge advantage, >>definitely one of the many advantages that reporting it has. So this afternoon there's going to be a, as part of the security summit, a panel that you and several other Fortinet execs are on taking part in A Q and a, what are some of the topics that you think are going to come up? And as part of that Q and >>A. I see for certain enterprise customer, definitely the ransomware attack, how to do the internal segmentation, how to securely do the remote access work from home. So we are very important For some service provider. We also see how to supporting them for the sassy environment and certain whole infrastructure security, whether the 5G or the SD went because everyone has a huge demand and uh it's a group over for us, we become a leader in the space. It's very very important for them. We also see uh like a different vertical space, Some come from healthcare, some from come from education. Uh they all have their own kind of challenge. Especially like there's a lot of uh oh T IOT device in healthcare space need to be secured and the same thing for the O. T. IOT space, >>Tremendous amount of opportunity. One thing I want to ask it, get your opinion on is the cybersecurity skills gap. It's been growing year, over year for the last five years. I know that just last week 14 that pledge to train one million professionals in the next five years, you guys have been focused on this for a while. I love that you have a veterans program. I'm the daughter of a Vietnam combat veterans. So that always warms my heart. But is that something, is the cybersecurity skills got something that customers ask you ken? How do you recommend? We saw this? >>Yes, we have been doing this for over 10 years. We have the program, we call the network secured expert program a different level. So we have 24 million people. We also commit a traditional million people because there's a huge shortage of the scale separate security expert there. So we do work in with over like a 4500 university globally at the same time. We also want to offer the free training to all the people interested, especially all the veterans and other Like even high school graduate high school student there and at the same time anyone want to learn several security. We feel that that's, that's very good space, very exciting space and very fast-growing space also still have a huge shortage globally. There's a 3-4 million shortage of skilled people in the space, which is a or fast growing space. And so we were happy to support all the train education with different partners at the same time, try to contribute ourselves. >>I think that's fantastic. Will be excited to see over the next five years that impact on that training one million. And also to see it to your point with how much the industry is changing, how much, how fast supporting that's growing. There's a lot of job opportunity out there. I think it was Sandra who said that I was talking to her this morning that there's no job security like cybersecurity. It's really true. If you think about it. >>Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. Like remember a few years ago when we started the first time to do all this interview, I said, hey, it's a barber hot space now, let's get harder and harder, more people interested now. And I really thank you cube and you give all the support it all these years and we're happy to be here. >>Absolutely. It's our pleasure. Well, I know you are paired up. You said tomorrow with Phil Mickelson for the pro am. That's pretty exciting, ken. >>I'm not sure I'm a very good golfer, but I will try my best. >>You try your best. I'm sure it will be a fantastic experience. Thank you for having the cube here for bringing people back together for this event, showing that we can do this, we can do this safely and securely. And also what Fortinet is doing to really help address that cyber security skills gap and uh, really make us more aware of the threats and the landscape and how we, as individuals and enterprises can help sort to quiet that storm >>also will be happy to be here and also being honored to be part of the program at the same time. We also want to thank you a lot of partner model customer and join us together for this big PJ event and thank you for everyone. >>Absolutely. And you guys are a big partner driven organization. I'm sure the partners appreciate that, ken, Thank you so much. >>Thank you. Thank you lisa >>for kenzi. I'm lisa martin. You're watching the cue from the Fortinet security summit in napa valley. >>Yeah. Mhm

>>Welcome back to HPD discovered 2021. My name is Dave Volonte and you're watching the cubes virtual coverage of discovering we're super excited to have Jason Newton back in the cube. He's part of the HPV mastermind alliance behind its messaging and marketing and he's been instrumental and up leveling the conversation over the last several years from ports and lungs and gigahertz, two topics that resonate with business technology executives, which is basically every executive on the planet. Jason. Great to see you welcome back to the program. >>Hey, I'm thrilled to be here. >>Okay, We're gonna talk about the future of enterprise tech and the evolution of cloud hybrid cloud, its expansion to the edge where we are today, where we're headed and how we're going to get there. And I'm excited to start this off. We're living in an era where value and competition. We talk about this all the time is defined by data and the insights that organizations can extract from that data, the products and services that >>they can build, >>that our data centric, What do you think this means to HP and what does it mean for your customers? >>Well, I think we're at the right moment at the right time and I think for the customer it just what's happening now, what's possible to create value from data, it's just a tremendous opportunity to accelerate the transformation they were already driving for their business. Um, we're seeing our customers do amazing things with data, not just monetizing data, but like world changing types of things around uh healthcare and finance, transforming experiences for their customers and all of this is being driven by data. >>Well, I'm, I'm excited to see how you guys approach that. I mean you're talking about this, you know, the cloud to edge strategy and I've been having discussions with various execs at discover obviously remotely about how far hp egos and certainly you're gonna have compute everywhere. And Aruba seems to me to be a really interesting part of that platform. You're gonna go to the deep edge, so you got a lot of assets in the arsenal. How are you thinking about that? >>Well, it really needs to come together into one experience and you mentioned Aruba, I mean that's where it all starts with secure connectivity. The more that we connect things up in a secure way, the more data that we're going to be able to create, analyze and act upon. So it really plays a critical world. But if you look at h p e, we really have an embarrassment of riches of assets and expertise and partnerships at global scale and there's not a part of our business that isn't focused on some part of the data challenges that customers have, from edge computing to supercomputing to storage. What we're doing with the Admiral software, it's all focused on helping customers take in that data and then create insights from it, create new innovations from it. >>Talk a little bit more about the customer challenges that you're specifically solving at H. P. E. What what do you see there? How are you thinking about that? >>And I think one of the biggest ones where the conversation always starts with is you know I have a lot of data but it's all in silos. Um even within my organization or in some cases I know there's data out there but it's in another silo. How do I get access to it? How do I hear that word a lot When we talk to customers, you need to get access for my teams to that data. So first step is just how do I bring it all together? How do I Federated all of that data in one place? That's one area that we're helping customers solve. Um The second is in order to bring those those pieces together, the different data owners have to have a trust right to share the data because often there's not an incentive for them to do that. Like I own the data, I don't want to share it. So we have to establish different parameters or capabilities in order to enable that type of of trust and sharing. And there has to be some mutual benefit right as part of that. And we see that with inside of companies and we see it with multiple different organizations. Once you can overcome those, those are really hard challenges. Once you overcome those things, everything becomes astronomically more easy to deal with and everything starts to go faster. And that's kind of where we're trying to get people on that modern day to maturity curve up to that point where they do have federation. They do have curation, they are able to share. They know what they're going to benefit from it. And then we can get on to the task of enabling the teams to do analytics. It's at speed and scale. >>You talk you talk about federation. So there's an interesting challenge that you're describing and you and I have had some good conversations about this because you want to kind of you to obtain that data if you will and put it in a place that you can actually get to it, share it, make it discoverable. And of course at the same time it's all over the place. So you've kind of got these these pods that are that can talk to each other uh and facilitate that, that kind of data sharing and then what I call, you know, building data products, building data services and technology is at the point now, it's evolving to enable us to do that. It's a look back at the last 10 years, it's just far too complex. >>Yeah, we heard Antonio earlier today talk about, you know, building not private clouds, but private data spaces. And it's really that idea of how do I, how do I bring an experience to the data? Right. That is agile and fast and cloud, like or cloud. And in the case of what we're actually doing now building a cloud platform um if that's exactly where customers are trying to get to um and we look at these data spaces as the advantage by going bringing that to the data. Obviously there's the, you know, the physics of it, the performance and that kind of thing. But you know, we can pay more attention to like data sovereignty laws, um, you know, we can dress things like data ownership within these spaces so that teams can come together and freely collaborate and and act on that data together. >>You know, I've been watching you guys for now several years and you've you've taken this messaging and marketing thing pretty seriously. Even a lot of times, you know, we see it all a lot of times is this gimmicks and I don't mean that necessarily a bad way. There's actually some really good gimmicky marketing that gets a lot of attention, but your approach is different. Um it's very thoughtful. Uh it's cultural, I'll say you're trying to cultural sort of what you say with what you do. And so I want to ask you how you're going about, you know, changing the way in which you provide solutions. I sort of alluded that uh, to that at the top versus how you've done it in the past and how you're helping customers redefine their business for success. >>Well, the way that we're thinking about that is um and I think you heard it very clearly and consistently from Antonio earlier today, we're transforming into an edge to cloud company. Okay, We are building an edge to cloud platform. That is Green Lake. That platform is the way that will deliver cloud services to our customers for their workloads to their datasets wherever that needs to be. We're committed to a truly hybrid model, right edge on prem cloud together. So those elements, it starts to crystallize. I think a lot more about who this company is. The type of challenges that we need to solve. Talking about the things is not, is not interesting to customers. They want to know what problems can you help me solve? How fast can you do it right? What outcome can you help me achieve? And that's the way that you know, we, we talked about this a lot dave that we continue to transform and have those, those more meaningful conversations and like I said, every time we get to the data challenges, they know the opportunities there. They have a dream and a vision of what they want to go do. They just need a partner like HP to help them get there. >>So we talk a lot about Green Lake and as a service, you guys were threw the gauntlet down first. I gotta give you props because you're kind of all in on it. You're not a halfway house. I'll give you that much. But now we've seen at least I can count at least four other large competitors follow suit. How should we think about your strategy and specifically your advantage relative to the competitors? Let's let's talk first in terms of as a service in Green Lake and then maybe >>overall. Yeah, I mean, I think you see a lot of people following Green Lakes lead, we've been out in front for a while. We were the first to say the world will be hybrid and it is, we were the first to make the big bet at the edge. We were the first to see that not all the data is going to go into one unified location, it's going to continue to be distributed and therefore a cloud experience has to travel to that data. We created the Green Lake brand years before anybody else did. And now, while they're just now trying to figure out how do I do hardware is a service or a better way to sell my products. We're moving on, we're focused on the workloads and the workflows and the data sets. Um, Green Lake is much, much more mature and now that we have everybody on board across the company, we're moving much faster as well. Right? And that's more of a statement for the traditional competitors. Right? The traditional spaces, you know, they're still just stuck on like hardware, service infrastructure as a service were at the workload level and much higher. And I think what you're seeing from the public cloud players is, wow, data center an on prem and edges hard. Um, a lot harder than, than I think they really anticipated. And uh, you know, they're, they're reassessing. So I feel like we're in the place where the world is moving to, right? And we're really writing, you know, the first chapter of the new hp? Um Not the last >>has it, has it changed the way this as a service mentality, has it changed the way or how has it changed the way in which your product groups >>are behaving? Um quite a bit um you know, it is a mindset shift and you know it's and uh I think we have the culture that will successfully enabled because we've always been so customer centric, I think as you move two and as a service it becomes much more about how do I ensure customer success? Right? How do I, how do I put an environment in place and then use that as an opportunity to solve more problems across our customers environments? So I think that aspect is what you know really is driving our thinking now is what new services can I can I land on the green Lake edge to cloud platform to solve different data centric challenges? >>Yeah. You talked about, you know, lead and where you are in the majority model. What do you what do you what was the hardest part about making that change? Was it the, was it the leadership was that the sales compensation, was it to get the product guys out of the widgets? What was the hardest thing? >>Yeah, I think, I think go to market is as big a challenge as anything. Um You know, I I think in marketing it's our job to show the art of the possible in the future um even if it's uncomfortable for the organization. Um and I think that helps articulate Antonio's vision and give him a true north and he's a fabulous leader in a culture that you know, they believe and trust in him and so they're following. Um, but, you know, the challenges are, um, not so much, you know, the technology, uh, in many cases it is the people and the skills and uh, you know, building those new relationships within accounts and uh, those aspects, those intangible things. Um, so, you know, we're doing a lot around um enablement, sales, enablement. And of course with our uh, and most importantly with our our partners who are out there selling for us. It is a it is a new approach, but it's a good approach because it's so customer centric, it's not product centric. >>So what are the, so how are the customers and partners reacting? Of course you're gonna say great, but how do you know, like, what what kind of metrics do you look at, what kind of things that are important to you to track, that gives you confidence that you're you're on the right track. >>They're buying more stuff. >>Okay, rhetoric. >>Yeah. No, I mean um like I think there was some skepticism, you know, at first because we have been doing some of that infrastructure as a service type of thing for a while before we ever had a Green Lake brand. And they're like, well, is this just the same thing? Like No, we're truly cloud defying this platform. We're building a cloud native platform. You saw it in the announcements today, right? With cloud native security, just like you get in the public cloud that you can deploy and run these these workloads um in your choice of location and the more that we can show evidence of our messaging in the experience that we actually deliver. That's when customers start to lean. And so we look at a ton of metrics. I mean, you know, it's not one data point. We listen to Gardner. Um you know, we have our own internal research that we do, we're constantly getting feedback from our field. In fact, last week was two weeks ago, we had a board of advisors meeting brought in, you know, some of our top top customers just to hear from them, you know, um you know, what are we doing? Good, What we're not doing good. So it's it's a lot of different pieces that go into, how are we doing with the customer and how are they into this? But this is we're only doing what they told us they wanted. Bring me bring the cloud to me and my data. I can't move at all. But I don't want different operating models. I want a consistent experience. I want to be able to focus and innovate. I don't want to deal with, you know, the underlying pieces of the infrastructure. >>Right? And >>so yeah, we're doing what they ask. >>So they okay, but that sounds good. But then it's hard to do that. I mean, you got to put real is, that's a lot of elbow grease, a lot of investment, a lot of innovation. Uh, like you say, you got to line the organizations. That's, that's not a trivial task. I mean, I tell you, Jason, I've been, I've been hearing this, you know, early days, even 10 years ago, I think we're finally at the point now where the industry is responding to what those customers really want. And of course, you know, it's like Steve jobs with the iPhone, ask them what they want, they're not going to tell you an iPhone, right? They maybe they didn't know 10 years ago, but I think it really came into focus in the last several years and investment is a key there. >>Yeah. I mean I think the last decade was the digital transformation was all about, you know, how do I bring speed to code and take advantage of public cloud and and I think that took us further. It took us, but now, okay, the next chapter is a very data century. How do I bring speed agility to data and data analytics and especially at the edge and where things are, you know, need to live. How do I make a consistent experience that's gonna be our focus for the next 10 years. And like I said, I feel like we're at the right moment in history as a company with the right assets, expertise partnerships to go and help customers take advantage of that. >>Well it's interesting the last decade we talked about big data. We don't use that term much anymore, but like many things like the internet for example, it's over something or maybe it's overhyped at the beginning, but it's always under hyped when you actually see the force that can be. I I feel like we actually are now entering the true data era. So, so you're excited about a lot of things obviously as a service, but I gotta, I got a sense there's more that you're not sharing with us. So what are you most excited about for HP in the future? >>Well, like I said, becoming that edge to cloud company watching Green Lake blossom as it is. I mean tremendous innovations that we announced today and yes, there's things I can't share that I know are coming later this year. I have seen the roadmaps. It's it's it's really compelling, very compelling and impressive the things that we're doing with asthma role combined that together with with Green Lake and that experience the types of data analytic platform environments that we can build to unify those data silos to accelerate the machine learning and analytics teams. Um it's really all coming together and those are the things that I'm excited about. Um you know, changing that perception of H. P. E. Is infrastructure as a service and hardware is a service and that kind of thing. It's not about as a service is the experience, right? The value is in the data and watching us be able to help customers solve those data challenges and seize those those data opportunities is what I'm most excited about. >>Well the other thing too is the world has some big challenges, population and energy. You know, we could just make the huge list and and I feel like tech companies not only are in a position to help but I think they have a they have a responsibility and I gotta say I think most tech companies big large tech companies are stepping up and have great leadership around that. And what are your thoughts on that? >>Well yeah we talked about value from data. It's all about the insights is where the value comes from but values not always about profit and monetization data truly does have the opportunity to solve some of the world's biggest challenges. Um I was just reading this morning about C. G. A. I. R. And the things that they're doing in agriculture with these, they've got a big data set platform that um I think could be literally the thing that ends up helping solve world hunger. The thing that everyone sort of jokes about. I'm like no seriously now with the data that could be possible. >>Yeah, I think you're right, I think we are going to solve world hunger, world nutrition maybe a different story, but we'll tackle that next. Um last question, you know, what else should we be focused on at discover how can folks learn more >>well? You know, this is a three day event, so today was really about the news and excitement and clarifying our position as an edge to cloud company and the Green Lake is our edge to cloud platform. The way that we deliver the cloud to you. Um Tomorrow is really about how all of that vision strategy manifests itself into the experience and the products and solutions that you can consume. Um There'll also be a lot of sharing of uh the keynote is when I'm looking forward to with Dr England Go, he's ahead of ai and he's gonna be sharing all the lessons and learnings from hundreds of engagements that he's been driving with customers, showing exactly how to overcome the data silo problem, the trust problem, how to bring agility to analytics and then thursday is kind of the geek out day, right? We get to talk to Hewlett Packard labs, we get to go and touch the technology, meet the technologists, interact with them. Um and and understand what are those technologies that are gonna be crucial You know, for the next 10 years of data driven transformation. >>Some really exciting stuff there. Jason, thank you so much for spending some time on the cube again. Really great to see you. >>I appreciate the invite every time is a pleasure. Thank you. >>Thanks for being with us for our ongoing coverage of HPD discovered 21 this is Dave Volonte, you're watching the cube. The leader in digital check coverage will be right back. >>Mhm. Mhm.

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> UiPath has had a long, strange trip to IPO. How so you ask? Well, the company was started in 2005. But it's culture, is akin to a frenetic startup. The firm shunned conventions and instead of focusing on a narrow geographic area to prove its product market fit before it started to grow, it aggressively launched international operations prior to reaching unicorn status. Well prior, when it had very little revenue, around a million dollars. Today, more than 60% of UiPath business is outside of the United States. Despite its headquarters being in New York city. There's more, according to recent SEC filings, UiPath total revenue grew 81% last year. But it's free cash flow, is actually positive, modestly. Wait, there's more. The company raised $750 million in a Series F in early February, at a whopping $35 billion valuation. Yet, the implied back of napkin valuation, based on the number of shares outstanding after the offering multiplied by the proposed maximum offering price per share yields evaluation of just under 26 billion. (Dave chuckling) And there's even more to this crazy story. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights, Powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis we'll share our learnings, from sifting through hundreds of pages (paper rustling) of UiPath's red herring. So you didn't have to, we'll share our thoughts on its market, its competitive position and its outlook. Let's start with a question. Mark Roberge, is a venture capitalist. He's a managing director at Stage 2 Capital and he's also a teacher, a professor at the B-School in Harvard. One of his favorite questions that he asks his students and others, is what's the best way to grow a company? And he uses this chart to answer that question. On the vertical axis is customer retention and the horizontal axis is growth to growth rate and you can see he's got modest and awesome and so forth. Now, so I want to let you look at it for a second. What's the best path to growth? Of course you want to be in that green circle. Awesome retention of more than 90% and awesome growth but what's the best way to get there? Should you blitz scale and go for the double double, triple, triple blow it out and grow your go to market team on the horizontal axis or should be more careful and focus on nailing retention and then, and only then go for growth? What do you think? What do you think most VCs would say? What would you say? When you want to maybe run the table, capture the flag before your competitors could get there or would you want to take a more conservative approach? What would Daniel Dines say the CEO of UiPath? Again, I'll let you think about that for a second. Let's talk about UiPath. What did they do? Well, I shared at the top that the company shunned conventions and expanded internationally, very rapidly. Well before it hit escape velocity and they grew like crazy and it got out of control and he had to reign it in, plug some holes, but the growth didn't stop, go. So very clearly based on it's performance and reading through the S1, the company has great retention. It uses a metric called gross retention rate which is at 96 or 97%, very high. Says customers are sticking with it. So maybe that's the right formula go for growth and grow like crazy. Let chaos reign, then reign in the chaos as Andy Grove would say. Go fast horizontally, and you can go vertically. Let me tell you what I think Mark Roberge would say, he told me you can do that. But churn is the silent killer of SaaS companies and perhaps the better path is to nail product market fit. And then your retention metrics, before you go into hyperbolic growth mode. There's all science behind this, which may be antithetical to the way many investors want to roll the dice and go for super growth, like go fast or die. Well, it worked for UiPath you might say, right. Well, no. And this is where the story gets even more interesting and long and strange for UiPath. As we shared earlier, UiPath was founded in 2005 out of Bucharest Romania. The company actually started as a software outsourcing startup. It called the company, DeskOver and it built automation libraries and SDKs for companies like Microsoft, IBM and Google and others. It also built automation scripts and developed importantly computer vision technology which became part of its secret sauce. In December 2015, DeskOver changed its name to UiPath and became a Delaware Corp and moved its headquarters to New York City a couple of years later. So our belief is that UiPath actually took the preferred path of Mark Roberge, five ticks North, then five more East. They slow-cooked for the better part of 10 years trying to figure out what market to serve. And they spent that decade figuring out their product market fit. And then they threw gas in the fire. Pretty crazy. All right, let's take a peak (chuckling) at the takeaways from the UiPath S1 the numbers are impressive. 580 million ARR with 65% growth. That asterisk is there because like you, we thought ARR stood for annual recurring revenue. It really stands for annualized renewal run rate. annualized renewal run rate is a metric that is one of UiPath's internal KPIs and are likely communicate that publicly over time. We'll explain that further in a moment. UiPath has a very solid customer base. Nearly 8,000, I've interviewed many of them. They're extremely happy. They have very high retention. They get great penetration into the fortune 500, around 63% of the fortune 500 has UiPath. Most of UiPath business around 70% comes from existing customers. I always say you're going to get more money out of existing customers than new customers but everybody's trying to go out and get new customers. But UiPath I think is taking a really interesting approach. It's their land and expand and they didn't invent that term but I'll come back to that. It kind of reminds me of the early days of Tableau. Actually I think Tableau is an interesting example. Like UiPath, Tableau started out as pretty much a point tool and it had, but it had very passionate customers. It was solving problems. It was simplifying things. And it would have bid into a company and grow and grow. Now the market fundamentals for UiPath are very good. Automation is super hot right now. And the pandemic has created an automation mandate to date and I'll share some data there as well. UiPath is a leader. I'm going to show you the Gartner Magic Quadrant for RPA. That's kind of a good little snapshot. UiPath pegs it's TAM at 60 billion dollars based on some bottoms up calculations and some data from Bain. Pre-pandemic, we pegged it at over 30 billion and we felt that was conservative. Post-pandemic, we think the TAM is definitely higher because of that automation mandate, it's been accelerated. Now, according to the S1, UiPath is going to raise around 1.2 billion. And as we said, if that's an implied valuation that is lower than the Series F, so we suspect the Series F investors have some kind of ratchet in there. UiPath needed the cash from its Series F investors. So it took in 750 million in February and its balance sheet in the S1 shows about 474 million in cash and equivalent. So as I say, it needed that cash. UiPath has had significant expense reductions that we'll show you in some detail. And it's brought in some fresh talent to provide some adult supervision around 70% of its executive leadership team and outside directors came to the company after 2019 and the company's S1, it disclosed that it's independent accounting firm identified last year what it called the "material weakness in our internal controls over financial report relating to revenue recognition for the fiscal year ending 2018, caused by a lack of oversight and technical competence within the finance department". Now the company outlined the steps it took to remediate the problem, including hiring new talent. However, we said that last year, we felt UiPath wasn't quite ready to go public. So it really had to get its act together. It was not as we said at the time, the well-oiled machine, that we said was Snowflake under Mike Scarpelli's firm operating guidance. The guy's the operational guru, but we suspect the company wants to take advantage of this mock market. It's a good time to go public. It needs the cash to bolster its balance sheet. And the public offering is going to give it cache in a stronger competitive posture relative to its main new competitor, autumn newbie competitor Automation Anywhere and the big whales like Microsoft and others that aspire and are watching what UiPath is doing and saying, hey we want a piece of that action. Now, one other note, UiPath's CEO Daniel Dines owns 100% of the class B shares of the company and has a 35 to one voting power. So he controls the company, subject of course to his fiduciary responsibilities but if UiPath, let's say it gets in trouble financially, he has more latitude to do secondary offerings. And at the same time, it's insulated from activist shareholders taking over his company. So lots of detail in the S1 and we just wanted to give you some of those highlights. Here are the pretty graphs. If whoever wrote this F1 was a genius. It's just beautiful. As we said, ARR, annualized renewal run rate all it does is it annualizes the invoice amount from subscriptions in the maintenance portion of the revenue. In other words, the parts that are recurring revenue, it excludes revenue from support and perpetual license. Like one-time licenses and services is just kind of the UiPath's and maybe that's some sort of legacy there. It's future is that recurring revenue. So it's pretty similar to what we think of as ARR, but it's not exact. Lots of customers with a growing number of six and seven figure accounts and a dollar-based net retention of 145%. This figure represents the rate of net expansion of the UiPath ARR, from existing listing customers over a 12 month period. Translation. This says UiPath's existing customers are spending more with the company, land and expand and we'll share some data from ETR on that. And as you can see, the growth of 86% CAGR over the past nine quarters, very impressive. Let's talk about some of the fundamentals of UiPath's business. Here's some data from the Brookings Institute and the OECD that shows productivity statistics for the US. The smaller charts in the right are for Germany and Japan. And I've shared some similar data before the US showed in the middle there. Showed productivity improvements with the personal productivity boom in the mid to late 90s. And it spilled into the early 2000s. But since then you can see it's dropped off quite significantly. Germany and Japan are also under pressure as are most developed countries. China's labor productivity might show declines but it's level, is at level significantly higher than these countries, April 16th headline of the Wall Street Journal says that China's GDP grew 18% this quarter. So, we've talked about the snapback in post-COVID and the post-isolation economy, but these are kind of one time bounces. But anyway, the point is we're reaching the limits of what humans can do alone to solve some of the world's most pressing challenges. And automation is one key to shifting labor away from these more mundane tasks toward more productive and more important activities that can deliver lasting benefits. This according to UiPath, is its stated purpose to accelerate human achievement, big. And the market is ready to be automated, for the most part. Now the post-isolation economy is increasingly going to focus on automation to drive toward activity as we've discussed extensively, I got to share the RPA Magic Quadrant where nearly everyone's a winner, many people are of course happy. Many companies are happy, just to get into the Magic Quadrant. You can't just, you have to have certain criteria. So that's good. That's what I mean by everybody wins. We've reported extensively on UiPath and Automation Anywhere. Yeah, we think we might shuffle the deck a little bit on this picture. Maybe creating more separation between UiPath and Automation Anywhere and the rest. And from our advantage point, UiPath's IPO is going to either force Automation Anywhere to respond. And I don't know what its numbers are. I don't know if it's ready. I suspect it's not, we'd see that already but I bet you it's trying to get there. Or if they don't, UiPath is going to extend its lead even further, that would be our prediction. Now personally, I would have Pegasystems higher on the vertical. Of course they're not an IPO, RPA specialist, so I kind of get what Gartner is doing there but I think they're executing well. And I'd probably, in a broader context I'd probably maybe drop blue prism down a little bit, even though last year was a pretty good year for the company. And I would definitely have Microsoft looming larger up in the upper left as a challenger more than a visionary in my opinion, but look, Gartner does good work and its analysts are very deep into this stuff, deeper than I am. So I don't want to discount that. It's just how I see it. Let's bring in the ETR data and show some of the backup here. This is a candlestick chart that shows the components of net score, which is spending momentum, however, ETR goes out every quarter. Says you're spending more, you're spending less. They subtract the lesses from the mores and that's net score. It's more complicated than that, but that's that blue line that you see in the top and yes it's trending downward but it's still highly elevated. We'll talk about that. The market share is in the yellow line at the bottom there. That green represents the percentage of customers that are spending more and the reds are spending less or replacing. That gray is flat. And again, even though UiPath's net score is declining, it's that 61%, that's a very elevated score. Anything over 40% in our view is impressive. So it's, UiPath's been holding in the 60s and 70s percents over the past several years. That's very good. Now that yellow line market share, yes it dips a bit, but again it's nuanced. And this is because Microsoft is so pervasive in the data stat. It's got so many mentions that it tends to somewhat overwhelm and skew these curves. So let's break down net score a little bit. Here's another way to look at this data. This is a wheel chart we show this often it shows the components of net score and what's happening here is that bright red is defection. So look at it, it's very small that wouldn't be churn. It's tiny. Remember that it's churn is the killer for software companies. And so that forest green is existing customers spending more at 49%, that's big. That lime green is new customers. So again, it's from the S1, 70% of UiPath's revenue comes from existing customers. And this really kind of underscores that. Now here's more evidence in the ETR data in terms of land and expand. This is a snapshot from the January survey and it lines up UiPath next to its competitors. And it cuts the data just on those companies that are increasing spending. It's so that forest green that we saw earlier. So what we saw in Q1 was the pace of new customer acquisition for UiPath was decelerating from previous highs. But UiPath, it shows here is outpacing its competition in terms of increasing spend from existing customers. So we think that's really important. UiPath gets very high scores in terms of customer satisfaction. There's, I've talked to many in theCUBE. There's places on the web where we have customer ratings. And so you want to check that out, but it'll confirm that the churn is low, satisfaction is high. Yeah, they get dinged sometimes on pricing. They get dinged sometimes, lately on service cause they're growing so fast. So, maybe they've taken the eye off the ball in a couple of counts, but generally speaking clients are leaning in, they're investing heavily. They're creating centers of excellence around RPA and automation, and UiPath is very focused on that. Again, land and expand. Now here's further evidence that UiPath has a strong account presence, even in accounts where its competitors are presence. In the 149 shared accounts from the Q1 survey where UiPath, Automation Anywhere and Microsoft have a presence, UiPath's net score or spending velocity is not only highly elevated, it's relative momentum, is accelerating compared to last year. So there's some really good news in the numbers but some other things stood out in the S1 that are concerning or at least worth paying attention to. So we want to talk about that. Here is the income statement and look at the growth. The company was doing like 1 million dollars in 2015 like I said before. And when it started to expand internationally it surpassed 600 million last year. It's insane growth. And look at the gross profit. Gross margin is almost 90% because revenue grew so rapidly. And last year, its cost went down in some areas like its services, less travel was part of that. Now jump down to the net loss line. And normally you would expect a company growing at this rate to show a loss. The street wants growth and UiPath is losing money, but it's net loss went from 519 million, half a billion down to only 92 million. And that's because the operating expenses went way down. Now, again, typically a company growing at this rate would show corresponding increases in sales and marketing expense, R&D and even G&A but all three declined in the past 12 months. Now reading the notes, there was definitely some meaningful savings from no travel and canceled events. UiPath has great events around the world. In fact theCUBE, Knock Wood is going to be at its event in October, in Las Vegas at the Bellagio . So we're stoked for that. But, to drop expenses that precipitously with such high growth, is kind of strange. Go look at Snowflake's income statement. They're in hyper-growth as well. We like to compare it to Snowflake is a very well-run company and it's in hyper-growth mode, but it's sales and marketing and R&D and G&A expense lines. They're all growing along with that revenue. Now, perhaps they're growing at a slower rate. Perhaps the percent of revenue is declining as it should as they achieve operating leverage but they're not shrinking in absolute dollar terms as shown in the UiPath S1. So either UiPath has applied some magic automation mojo to it's business (chuckling). Like magic beans or magic grits with my cousin Vinny. Maybe it has found the Holy grail of operating leverage. It's a company that's all about automation or the company was running way too hot on the expense side and had a cut and clean up its income statement for the IPO and conserve some cash. Our guess is the latter but maybe there's a combination there. We'll give him the benefit of the doubt. And just to add a bit more to this long, strange trip. When have you seen an explosive growth company just about to go public, show positive cashflow? Maybe it's happened, but it's rare in the tech and software business these days. Again, go look at companies like Snowflake. They're not showing positive cashflow, not yet anyway. They're growing and trying to run the table. So you have to ask why is UiPath operating this way? And we think it's because they were so hot and burning cash that they had to reel things in a little bit and get ready to IPO. It's going to be really interesting to see how this stock reacts when it does IPO. So here's some things that we want you to pay attention to. We have to ask. Is this IPO, is it window dressing? Or did UiPath again uncover some new productivity and operating leverage model. I doubt there's anything radically new here. This company doesn't want to miss the window. So I think it said, okay, let's do this. Let's get ready for IPO. We got to cut expenses. It had a lot of good advisors. It surrounded itself with a new board. Extended that board, new management, and really want to take advantage of this because it needs the cash. In addition, it really does want to maintain its lead. It's got Automation Anywhere competing with it. It's got Microsoft looming large. And so it wants to continue to lead. It's made some really interesting acquisitions. It's got very strong vision as you saw in the Gartner Magic Quadrant and obviously it's executing well but it's really had to tighten things up. So we think it's used the IPO as a fortune forcing function to really get its house in order. Now, will the automation mandate sustain? We think it will. The forced match to digital worked, it was effective. It wasn't pleasant, but even in a downturn we think it will confer advantage to automation players and particularly companies like UiPath that have simplified automation in a big way and have done a great job of putting in training, great freemium model and has a culture that is really committed to the future of humankind. It sounds ambitious and crazy but talk to these people, you'll see it's true. Pricing, UiPath had to dramatically expand or did dramatically expand its portfolio and had to reprice everything. And I'm not so worried about that. I think it'll figure that pricing out for that portfolio expansion. My bigger concern is for SaaS companies in general. I don't like SaaS pricing that has been popularized by Workday and ServiceNow, and Salesforce and DocuSign and all these companies that essentially lock you in for a year or two and basically charge you upfront. It's really is a one-way street. You can't dial down. You can only dial up. It's not true Cloud pricing. You look at companies like Stripe and Datadog and Snowflake. It is true Cloud pricing. It's consumption pricing. I think the traditional SaaS pricing model is flawed. It's very unfairly weighted toward the vendors and I think it's going to change. Now, the reason we put cloud on the chart is because we think Cloud pricing is the right way to price. Let people dial up and dial down, let them cancel anytime and compete on the basis of your product excellence. And yeah, give them a price concession if they do lock in. But the starting point we think should be that flexibility, pay by the drink. Cancel anytime. I mentioned some companies that are doing that as well. If you look at the modern SaaS startups and the forward-thinking VCs they're really pushing their startups to this model. So we think over time that the term lock-in model is going to give way to true consumption-based pricing and at the clients option, allow them to lock-in for a better price, way better model. And UiPath's Cloud revenue today is minimal but over time, we think it's going to continue to grow that cloud. And we think it will force a rethink in pricing and in revenue recognition. So watch for that. How is the street going to react to Daniel Dines having basically full control of the company? Generally, we feel that that solid execution if UiPath can execute is going to outweigh those concerns. In fact, I'm very confident that it will. We'll see, I kind of like what the CEO says has enough mojo to say (chuckling) you know what, I'm not going to let what happened to for instance, EMC happen to me. You saw Michael Dell do that. You saw just this week they're spinning out VMware, he's maintaining his control. VMware Dell shareholders get get 40.44 shares for every Dell share they're holding. And who's the biggest shareholder? Michael Dell. So he's, you got two companies, one chairman. He's controlling the table. Michael Dell beat the great Icahn. Who beats Carl Icahn? Well, Michael Dell beats Carl Icahn. So Daniel Dines has looked at that and says, you know what? I'm not just going to give up my company. And the reason I like that with an if, is that we think will allow the company to focus more on the long-term. The if is, it's got to execute otherwise it's so much pressure and look, the bottom line is that UiPath has really favorable market momentum and fundamentals. But it is signing up for the 90 day short clock. The fact that the CEO has control again means they can look more long term and invest accordingly. Oftentimes that's easier said than done. It does come down to execution. So it is going to be fun to watch (chuckling). That's it for now, thanks to the community for your comments and insights and really always appreciate your feedback. Remember, I publish each week on Wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and these episodes are all available as podcasts. All you got to do is search for the Breaking Analysis podcast. You can always connect with me on Twitter @dvellante or email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com or comment on my LinkedIn posts. And we'll see you in clubhouse. Follow me and get notified when we start a room, which we've been doing with John Furrier and Sarbjeet Johal and others. And we love to riff on these topics and don't forget, please check out etr.plus for all the survey action. This is Dave Vellante, for theCUBE Insights Powered by ETR. Be well everybody. And we'll see you next time. (gentle upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban cloud brought to you by silicon angle. Welcome to the cubes event. Virtual event. Cuban Cloud. I'm John for your host. We're here talking to all the thought leaders getting all the stories around Cloud What's going on this year and next today, Tomorrow and the future. We gotta featured startup here. Jonah Clipper, who is the CEO and founder of Stack Hawks. Developing security software for developers to have them put security baked in from the beginning. Johnny, thanks for coming on and being featured. Start up here is part of our Cuban cloud. Thanks for joining. >>Thanks so much for having me, John. >>So one of our themes this year is obviously Cloud natives gone mainstream. The pandemic has shown that. You know, a lot of things have to be modern. Modern applications, the emerald all they talked about modern applications. Infrastructure is code. Reinvent, um is here. They're talking about the next gen enterprise. Their public cloud. Now you've got hybrid cloud. Now you've got multi cloud. But for developers, you just wanna be building security baked in and they don't care where the infrastructure is. So this is the big trend. Like to get your thoughts on that. But before we jump in, tell us about Stack Hawk What you guys do your founded in 2019. Tell us about your company and what Your mission is >>Awesome. Yeah, our mission is to put application security in the hands of software developers so that they can find and fix upset books before they deployed a production. And we do that through a dynamic application scanning capability. Uh, that's deployable via docker, so engineers can run it locally. They can run it in C I C. D. On every single PR or merge and find bugs in the process of delivering software rather than after it's been production. >>So everyone's talking about shift left, shift left for >>security. What does >>that mean? Uh, these days. And what if some of the hurdles that people are struggling with because all I hear is shift left shift left from, like I mean, what does What does that actually mean? Now, Can you take us through your >>view? Yes, and we use the phrase a lot, and I and I know it can feel a little confusing or overused. Probably. Um, When I think of shift left, I think of that Mobius that we all look at all of the time, Um, and how we deliver and, like, plan, write code, deliver software and then manage it. Monitor it right like that entire Dev ops workflow. And today, when we think about where security lives, it either is a blocker to deploying production. Or most commonly, it lives long after code has been deployed to production. And there's a security team constantly playing catch up, trying to ensure that the development team whose job is to deliver value to their customers quickly, right, deploy as fast as we can, as many great customer facing features, um there, then, looking at it months after software has been deployed and then hurrying and trying to assess where the bugs are. And, um, trying to get that information back to software developers so that they can fix those issues. Shifting left to me means software engineers are finding those bugs as their writing code or in the CIA CD pipeline long before code has been deployed to production. >>And so you guys attack that problem right there so they don't have to ship the code and then come back and fix it again. Or where we forgot what the hell is going on. That point in time some Q 18 gets it. Is that the kind of problem that that's out there? Is that the main pain point? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean a lot of the way software, specifically software like ours and dynamic applications scanning works is a security team or a pen tester. Maybe, is assessing applications for security vulnerability these, um, veteran prod that's normally where these tools are run and they throw them back over the wall, you know, interrupting sprints and interrupting the developer workflow. So there's a ton of context switching, which is super expensive, and it's very disruptive to the business to not know about those issues before they're in prod. And they're also higher risk issues because they're in fraud s. So you have to be able to see a >>wrong flywheel. Basically, it's like you have a penetration test is okay. I want to do ship this app. Pen test comes back, okay? We gotta fix the bug, interrupts the cycle. They're not coding there in fire drill mode. And then it's a chaotic death spiral at that point, >>right? Or nothing gets done. God, how did >>you What was the vision? How did you get here? What? How did you start? The company's woke up one morning. Seven started a security company. And how did what was the journey? What got you here? >>Sure. Thanks. I've been building software for software engineers since 2010. So the first startup I worked for was very much about making it easy for software engineers to deploy and manage applications super efficiently on any cloud provider. And we did programmatic updates to those applications and could even move them from cloud to cloud. And so that was sort of cutting my teeth and technology and really understanding the developer experience. Then I was a VP of product at a company called Victor Ops. We were purchased by spunk in 2018. But that product was really about empowering software engineers to manage their own code in production. So instead of having a network operations center right who sat in front of screens and was waiting for something to go wrong and would then just end up dialing there, you know, just this middle man trying to dial to find the person who wrote the software so that they can fix it. We made that way more efficient and could just route issues to software engineers. And so that was a very dev ops focused company in terms of, um, improving meantime to know and meantime to resolve by putting up time in the hands of software engineers where it didn't used to live there before it lived in a more traditional operations type of role. But we deploy software way too quickly and way too frequently to production to assume that another human can just sit there and know how to fix it, because the problems aren't repeatable, right? So So I've been living in the space for a long time, and I would go to conferences and people would say, Well, I love for, you know, we have these digital transformation initiatives and I'm in the security team and I don't feel like I'm part of this. I don't know. I don't know how to insert myself in this process. And so I started doing a lot of research about, um, how we can shift this left. And I was actually doing some research about penetration testing at the time, Um, and found just a ton of opportunity, a ton of problems, right that exist with security and how we do it today. So I really think of this company as a Dev Ops first Company, and it just so happens to be that we're taking security, and we're making it, um, just part of the the application testing framework, right? We're testing for security bugs, just like we would test for any other kind of bucks. >>That's an awesome vision of other great great history there. And thanks for sharing that. I think one of the things that I think this ties into that we have been reporting aggressively on is the movement to Dev Stack Up, Dev, Ops Dev SEC Ops. And you know, just doing an interview with the guy who stood up space force and big space conversation and were essentially riffing on the idea that they have to get modern. It's government, but they got to do more commercial. They're using open source. But the key thing was everything. Software defined. And so, as you move into suffer defined, then they say we want security baked in from the beginning and This is the big kind of like sea level conversation. Bake it in from the beginning, but it's not that easy. And this is where I think it's interesting where you start to think, uh, Dev ops for security because security is broken. So this is a huge trend. It sounds easy to say it baked security in whether it's an i o T edge or multi cloud. There's >>a lot >>of work there. What should people understand when they hear that kind of platitude of? I just baked security and it's really easy. It's not. It's not trivial. What's your thoughts on >>that? It isn't trivial. And in my opinion, there aren't a lot of tools on the market that actually make that very easy. You know, there are some you've had sneak on this program and they're doing an excellent job, really speaking to the developer and being part of that modern software delivery workflow. Um, but because a lot of tools were built to run in production, it makes it really difficult to bake them in from the beginning. And so, you know, I think there are several goals here. One is you make the tooling work so that it works for the software engineer and their workflow. And and there's some different values that we have to consider when its foreign engineer versus when it's for a security person, right? Limit the noise, make it as easy as possible. Um, make sure that we only show the most critical things that are worth an engineer. Stopping what they're doing in terms of building business value and going back and fixing that bugs and then create a way to discuss in triage other issues later outside of the development. Workflow. So you really have to have a lot of empathy and understanding for how software is built and how software engineers behave, I think, in order to get this right. So it's not easy. Um, but we're here and other tools air here. Thio support companies in doing that. >>What's the competitive strategy for you guys going forward? Because there's a big sea change. Now I see an inflection point. Obviously, Cove it highlights. It's not the main reason, but Cloud native has proven it's now gone mainstream kubernetes. You're seeing the big movement there. You're seeing scale be a huge issue. Software defined operations are now being discussed. So I think it's It's a simple moment for this kind of solution. How are you guys going to compete? What's what's the winning strategy? How are you guys gonna compete to win? >>Yeah, so there's two pieces to that one is getting the technology right and making sure that it is a product that developers love. And we put a ton of effort into that because when a software engineer says, Hey, I'd love to use the security product, right? CSOs around the world are going to be like, Yes, please. Did a software engineer just ask me, You have the security product. Thank you, Right. We're here to make it so easy for them and get the tech right. And then the other piece, in terms of being competitive, is the business model. There were something like, I don't You would know better than me, but I think the data point I last saw was like 1300 venture backed security companies since 2012 focused on selling to see SOS and Fortune 2000 companies. It is a mess. It's so noisy, nobody can figure out what anybody actually does. What we have done is said no, we're going to take a modern business model approach to security. So you know, it's a SAS platform that makes it super easy for a software engineer or anybody on the team to try and buy the software. So 14 day trial. You don't have to talk to anybody if you don't want Thio Awesome support to make sure that people can get on boarded and with our on boarding flow, we've seen that our customers go from signing up to first successful scan of their platform or whatever app they chose to scan in a knave ridge of about 10 minutes. The fastest is eight, right? So it's about delivering value to our customers really quickly. And there aren't many companies insecurity on the market today. That do that? >>You know, you mentioned pen test earlier. I I hear that word. Nice shit. And, like, pen test penetration test, as it's called, um, Sock reports. I mean, these are things that are kind of like I got to do that again. I know these people are doing things that are gonna be automated, but one of the things that cloud native has proven as be killer app is integrations because when you build a modern app, it has to integrate with someone else. So there you need these kind of pen tests. You gotta have this kind of code review. And as code, um, is part of, say, a purpose built device where it's an I o T. Edge updates have toe happen. So you need mawr automation. You need more scale around both updating software to, ah, purpose built device or for integration. What's your thoughts in reaction to that? Because this is a riel software challenge from a customer standpoint, because there are too many tools out there and every see so that I talk to says, I just want to get rid of half the tools consolidate down around my clouds that I'm working through my environment and b'more developer oriented, not just purchasing stuff. So you have all this going on? What's your reaction to that? You got the you know, the integration and you've got the software updates on purpose built devices. >>Yeah, I mean, we I make a joke a little bit. That security land is like, you know, acronyms. Dio there are so many types of security that you could choose to implement. And they all have a home and different use cases that are certainly valuable toe organizations. Um, what we like to focus on and what we think is interesting and dynamic application scanning is because it's been hard toe automate dynamic application for especially for modern applications. I think a lot of companies have ignored theon pertuan ity Thio really invest in this capability and what's cool about dynamic. And you were mentioning pen testing. Is that because it's actively attacking your app? It when you get a successful test, it's like a It's like a successful negative test. It's that the test executed, which means that bug is present in your code. And so there's a lot less false positives than in other types of scanning or assessment technologies. Not to say there isn't a home for them. There's a lot of we could we could spend a whole hour kind of breaking down all the different types of bugs that the different tools confined. Um, but we think that if you want to get started developer first, you know there's a lot of great technologies. Pick a couple or one right pick stack hawk pick, sneak and just get started and put it in your developer workflow. So integrations are super important. Um, we have integrations with every C I C. D provider, making it easy to scan your code on every merge or release. And then we also have workflow integrations for software engineers associated with where they want to be doing work and how they want to be interrupted or told about an issue. So, you know, we're very early to market, but right out of the gate, we made sure that we had a slack integration so that scans are running. Or as we're finding new things, it's populating in a specific slack channel for those engineers who work on that part of the app and you're a integration right. If we find issues, we can quickly make tickets and route them and make sure that the right people are working on those issues. Eso That's how I think about sort of the integration piece and just getting started. It's like you can't tackle the whole like every accurate, um, at once like pick something that helps you get started and then continue to build out your program, as you have success. >>A lot of these tools can they get in the hands of developers, and then you kind of win their trust by having functionality. Uh, certainly a winning strategy we've seen. You know, Splunk, you mentioned where you worked for Data Dog and very other tools out there just get started easily. If it's good, it will be used. So I love that strategy. Question. I wanna ask you mentioned Dr earlier. Um, they got a real popular environment, but that speaks to the open source area. How do you see the role of open source playing with you guys? Is that gonna be part of your community outreach? Does the feed into the product? Could you share your vision on how stack hawks engaging and playing an open source? >>Yeah, absolutely. Um So when we started this company, my co founders and I, we sat down and said here, What are the problems? Okay, the world doesn't need a better scanner, right? If you walk the floor of, ah, security, uh, conference. It's like our tool finds a million things and someone else is. My tool finds a million and five things. Right, And that's how they're competing on value. It's really about making it easy to use and put in the pipeline. So we decided not to roll. Our own scanner were based on an open source capability called Zap the Set Attack Proxy. Uh, it is the most the world's most downloaded application scanner. And, uh, actually we just hired the founder of Zap to join the Stack Hawk team, and we're really excited to continue to invest in the open source community. There is a ton of opportunity to grow and sort of galvanize that community. And then the work that we do with our customers and the feedback that we get about the bugs we find if there, ah, false positive or this one's commonly risk accepted, we can go back to the community, which were already doing and saying, Hey, ditch this rule, Nobody likes it or we need to improve this test. Um, so it's a really nice relationship that we have, and we are looking forward to continuing to grow that >>great stuff. You guys are hot. Start of love. The software on security angle again def sec. Cox is gonna be It's gonna be really popular. Can you talk about some of the customer success is What's the What's the feedback from customers? Can you share some of the use cases that you guys are participating in where you're winning? You mentioned developers love it and try It can just give us a couple of use cases and examples. >>Yeah. Ah, few things. Um ah, lot of our customers are already selling on the notion. Like before we even went to G A right. They told all of their customers that they scan for security bugs with every single release. So in really critical, uh, industry is like fintech, right. It's really important that their customers trust that they're taking security seriously, which everybody says they dio. But they show it to their customers by saying here, every single deploy I can show you if there were any new security bugs released with that deploy. So that's really awesome. Other things We've heard our, uh, people being able to deploy really quickly thio the Salesforce marketplace, right? Like if they have toe have a scan to prove that that they can sell on Salesforce, they do that really rapidly. Eso all of that's going really well with our customers. >>How would I wanna How would I be a customer if I was interested in, um, using Stack Hawks say we have some software we wanna stand up, and, uh, it's super grade. And so Amazon Microsoft Marketplace Stairs Force They'll have requirements or say I want to do a deal with an integration they don't want. They want to make sure there's no nothing wrong with the code. This seems to be a common use case. How doe I if I was a customer, get involved or just download software? Um, what's the What's the procurement? What's the consumption side of it looked like, >>Yeah, you just go to Stockholm dot com and you create an account. If you'd like to get started that way so you can have a 14 day free trial. We have extremely extensive documentation, so it's really easy to get set up that way. You should have some familiarity. Or grab a software engineer who has familiarity with a couple of things. So one is how to use Docker, right? So Docker is, ah, deployment mechanism for the scanner. We do that so you can run it anywhere that you would like to, and we don't have to do things like pierce firewalls or other protective measures that you've instrumented on your production environment. You just run it, um, wherever you like in your system. So locally, C I c d So docker is an important thing to understand the way we configure our scanner is through a, um, a file. So if you are getting a scan today, either your security team is doing it or you have a pen tester doing it. Um, the whole like getting ready for that engagement takes a lot of time because the people who are running the tests don't know how the software was built. So the way we think about this is, just ask them. So you just fill out a Yamil file with parameters that tell the scanner what to dio tell it how to authenticate and not log out. Um, feed us an A p. I speak if you want, so weaken super efficiently, scan your app and you can be up and running really quickly, and then that's it. You can work with our team at any time if you need help, and then we have a really efficient procurement process >>in my experience some of the pen tests of firms out there, is it? It's like the house keeping seal of approval. You get it once and then you gotta go back again. Software change, new things come in. And it's like, Wait a minute, what's the new pen test? And then you to write a check or engaged to have enough meeting? I mean, this is the problem. I mean, too many meetings. Do you >>guys solve that problem? Do >>you solve that problem? >>We solve a piece of that problem. So I think you know, part of how I talk about our company is this idea that we live in a world where we deploy software every single day. Yet it seems reasonable that once a year or twice a year, we go get a pen test where human runs readily available, open source software on our product and gives us a like, quite literal. Pdf of issues on. It's like this is so intellectually dishonest, like we deploy all of the time. So here's the thing. Pen tests are important and everybody should do them. But that should not be the introduction to these issues that are also easy to automate and find in your system. So the way we think about how we work with pen testers is, um, run, stack hawk or zapped right in an automated fashion on your system, and then give that, give the configuration and give the most recent results to your pen tester and say, Go find the hard stuff. You shouldn't be cutting checks for $30,000 to a pen tester or something that you could easily meet in your flare up. Klein. You could write the checks for finding finding the hard stuff that's much more difficult to automate. >>I totally agree. Final question. Business model Once I get in, is it a service software and services? A monthly fee? How do you guys make money? >>Yep, it is software as a service, it is. A monthly fee were early to market. So I'm not going to pretend that we have perfectly cracked the pricing. Um, but the way that we think about this is this is a team product for software engineers and for, you know, informed constituents, right? You want a product person in the product. You want a security person in the product? Um, and we also want to incent you to scan your APS And the most modern fashion, which is scanning the smallest amount of http that lives in your app, like in a micro services architecture because it makes a lot easier, is easy to isolate the problems where they live and to fix those issues really quickly. So we bundle team and for a UPS and then we scale within, uh, companies as they add more team. So pen users. 10 APS is 3 99 a month. And as you add software engineers and more applications, we scale within your company that way. >>Awesome. So if you're successful, you pay more, but doesn't matter. You already succeeded, and that's the benefit of by As you go Great stuff. Final question. One more thing. Your vision of the future. What are the biggest challenges you see in the next 24 months? Plus beyond, um, that you're trying to attack? That's a preferred future that you see evolving. What's the vision? >>Yeah, you've touched on this a couple of times in this interview with uh being remote, and the way that we need to build software already has been modernizing, and I feel like every company has a digital transformation initiative, but it has toe happen faster. And along with that, we have to figure out how Thio protect and secure these Moderna Gail. The most important thing that we do the hearts and minds of our support engineers and make it really easy for them to use security capabilities and then continue to growth in the organization. And that's not an easy thing tied off. It's easy change, a different way of being security. But I think we have to get their, uh, in order to prepare the security, uh, in these rapidly deployed and developed applications that our customers expect. >>Awesome. Jodi Clippers, CEO and founder of Stack Hawk. Thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it. Thanks for spending the time featured Startup is part of our Cuban cloud. I'm Sean for your host with silicon angle to Cube. Thanks for watching

>>from the Silicon Angle Media office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube now here's your host, Dave Vellante. >>Hello, everyone. And welcome to this breaking analysis. We're here to assess the VM Ware v Sphere seven announcement, which is the general availability of so called Project Pacific. VM Ware has called this the biggest change to V sphere in the last 10 years. Now Project Specific Pacific supports kubernetes and natively in VM Ware environments. Why is this important? This is critical for multi and hybrid cloud because Kubernetes and its surrounding orchestration enable application portability and management. Yeah, as we've been reporting, VM Ware is one of the big players eyeing multi cloud, along with a crowded field of aspirants that include IBM with Red hat, Microsoft, Cisco, Google and a host of specialists in the ecosystem. Like how she and rancher as well play. Some players have focused in their respective stack swim lanes like security and data protection, storage, networking, etcetera. And with me to dig into this announcement is stew. Minutemen's Do is a senior analyst at Wiki Bond and co host of The Cube is too good to see you and let's get into it great to talk about this state. Okay, so the Sphere seven, what is being announced? And why is it relevant? >>Yes. So, David, as you said in the open, this is the general availability of what they talked about at VM World 2019 as Project Pacific. So it really is integrating kubernetes into V sphere. The VM ware, of course, will position this is that they're now enabling, you know, the 90% of the data centers around the world that have VM ware. Hey, your kubernetes enabled. Congratulations. You're cloud native. Everything like that. Only being a little facetious here. But this is very important. How do we get from where we were to live in this more cloud? Native environments. So containers in general and kubernetes specifically are being a first class citizen. There's a lot of work, Dave, and my understanding this has been going on for a number of years. You know, it's not like they just started working at this six months ago. A overhaul to how this works. Because it's not just we're going to stick a couple of containers on top of, you know, the guest operating system in the virtual machine. But there is a supervisor cluster for kubernetes at the hyper visor level. And there's a lot of, you know, in the weeds things that we're all trying to understand and figure out because you've got you know, we've got a hyper visor and you've got VM. And now you've got the containers and kubernetes on. Some of them are living in my data center. Some VM ware, of course, lives on multiple clouds like the VM ware on AWS. Solutions of this will go there on and, you know, how do I manage that? How does this impact my operations? You know, how did this change my application portfolio? Because, you know, the early value proposition for VM Ware always was. Hey, you're gonna put VM ware on there. You don't need to touch your applications. Everything runs like it did before you were running windows APS on a physical server. You move into virtual. It's all great. There's a lot of nuance and complexity. So when VM Ware says this is the biggest change in a decade probably is, I think back to you know, I remember when the fx 2.0, rolled out in V motion really changed the landscape. That was big V balls. Move to really ah storage. To really understand that architecture and really fix storage was was a huge undertaking that took many years. This this definitely stacks up with some of those previous changes to really change the way that we think about VM Ware. I think the advertising you have even seen from being where some places is don't think of them as VM ware their cloud where our container ware with like because vm zehr still there. But VM Ware is much more than VMS today, >>so this feels like it's bm were trying to maintain its relevance in a cloud native world and really solidify its because, let's face it, VM Ware is a platform that Pat Gelsinger's has ride. The Waves tried many times in many angles to try to ride the cloud wave, and it's finally settled on the partnerships with AWS specifically. But others on DSO really Is this their attempt to become cloud native, not get left behind and be cloud naive? His many say >>Yeah, great question, David. Absolutely. There's the question as to you know what's happening with my applications, you know lots of customers. They say, Well, I'm just going to satisfy the environments. Watched the huge growth of companies like service now workday. Those applications, well, customers don't even know what they live on. Do they live on virtualization? Environment is a containers I don't need to worry about because SAS takes care of that. If I'm building modern applications, well, I'm probably not starting with VMS. Containers are the way that most people are doing that. Or they might even be going serverless now if we take these environments. So how does VM ware make sure that they have the broadest application support? Kubernetes really won the container orchestration wars on. And this is a way that VM ware now can enable customers to move down that path to modernize their environments on. And what they wanna have is really some consistency between what's happening in the cloud and happening in the environments that they control >>themselves. Vm ware saying that containers in our first class citizen within v sphere what does that mean? Why is that important? First of all, are they really And what does that mean? And why is that important? >>Yes. So, Dave, my understanding is, you know, absolutely. It's their, You know, the nuances that you will put there is. You know, we're not just running bare metal servers with Lennox and running containers on top of it. It is. You're still sitting on top of the hyper visors. One of the things I'm trying to understand when you dig down is you know what? The device driver level VM ware always looked a little bit like Linux. But the people that use it and operate it, they're not letting people Dave, these, you know, the OS. The number one os that always ran on VM ware was Windows and the traditional applications that ran there. So when we talk about containers and we're enabling that in a kubernetes environment, there are some questions about how do we make sure that my applications get certified? Dave, you got a lot of history knowing things like s ap and Oracle. I need to make sure that we've tested everything in this works. This is not what we were running traditionally in VM ware and VM ware. Just thanks. Hey, v Sphere seven, turn the crank. Everything certified Well, I would tell customers make sure you understand that your application has been tested, that your Eyes V has certified this environment because this is definitely, as VM Ware says, a huge architectural change. So therefore, there's some ripple effects to make sure that what I'm doing in this environment stays fully supported. Of course, I'm sure VM Ware is working with their huge ecosystem to make sure that all the pieces or environment you mentioned things like data protection. We absolutely know that VM Ware is making sure the day one the data protection plugs in and supported in these environments when you're using the kind of kubernetes persona or containers solutions in V sphere. >>Well, this brings me to my next question. I mean, we were talking to Bernard Golden the other day and he was saying, You know, Kubernetes is necessary for multi cloud, but it's insufficient. And so this seems to me to be a first step and, as I say, VM ware maintaining and growing its relevance. But there's gonna be a roadmap here that goes beyond just containers and portability. There's other management factors you mentioned security of enabling the ecosystem to plug in. So maybe talk about that a little bit in terms of what's necessary to really build this out over the next >>decade. And actually, it's a great point. So, first of all, you know, V. Sphere, of course, is the core of VM Ware's business. But there's only a piece of the overall portfolio said this lives in. I believe they would consider this part of what they call their Tansu family. Tando is their cloud native overarching piece of it, and one of the updates is their product hands admission control. Which of the existing product really came out of the Hep D Oh acquisition is how we can really manage any kubernetes anywhere, and this is pure software. Dave. I'm sure you saw the most recent earnings announcement from VM Ware, and you know what's going sass. What's going subscription? VM Ware is trying to build out some of their software portfolio that that isn't kind of the more traditional shrink wrap software, so Tan Xue can manage any kubernetes environment. So, of course, day one Hey, obviously or seven, it's a kubernetes distribution. Absolutely. It's going to manage this environment and but also if I've got Cooper days from azure kubernetes from Amazon communities from other environment. Tanja can manage across all of those environments. So when when you're what VM Ware has always done. If you think back in the early days of virtualization, I had a lot of different servers. How do I manage across those environments? Well, VM ware was a layer that lived across them. VM Ware is trying to do the same thing in the cloud. Talk about multi cloud. And how do I manage that? How do we get value across them? Well, there's certain pieces that you know VM Ware is looking to enable with their management software to go across them. But there are a lot of other companies, you know, Amazon Google actually not Amazon yet for multi cloud. But Microsoft and Google absolutely spent a lot of time talking about that in the last year. A swell as you mentioned. Companies like Rancher and Hashi Corp absolutely play across What Lots of these multi cloud. Well, >>let's talk about the competition. Who do you see is the number one competitors >>Well, so the number one competitor absolutely has to be red hat, Dave. So you know, when I've been in the kubernetes ecosystem for a number of years for many years. When I talk to practitioners, the number one, you know what kubernetes you're using? Well, the answer for many years was, Well, I'm grabbing it, you know, the open source and I'm building my own stack. And the reason customers did that was because there wasn't necessarily maturity, and this was kind of leading edge, bleeding edge customers in this space. The number two besides build my own was Red Hat was because I'm a red hat customer, a lot of Lennox tooling the way of building things the way my application developers do. Things fit in that environment. And therefore, that's why Red Hat has over 2000 open shift customers leading distribution for Kubernetes. And you know, this seems purely directly targeted at that market. That red hat did you know it was a big reason why IBM spent $34 billion on the Red Hat acquisition is to go after this multi cloud opportunity. So you know, absolutely this shot across the bow because Red Hat is a partner of VM Ware's, but absolutely is also a competitive >>Well, Maritz told me years ago that's true. We're with everybody and you could see that playing out. What if you look at what VM Ware could do and some of their options if they gave it away, that would really be a shot across the bow at open shift, wouldn't it? >>Yeah, absolutely, Dave, because kubernetes is not free if you're enabling kubernetes on my Google environment, I, you know, just within the last week's awesome things that were like, Okay, wait. If you're testing an environment, yes, it is free. But, you know, started talking about the hourly charges for the management layer of kubernetes. So you know kubernetes again. A color friend, Cory Quinn. Communities absolutely is not free, and he will give you an earful and his thoughts on it s o in Amazon or Google. And absolutely, Dave, it's an important revenue stream for red hat. So if I'm vm ware and you know, maybe for some period of time, you make it a line item, it's part of my l. A. You know, a good thing for customers to look out for is when you're renegotiating your l a toe, understand? If you're going to use this, what is the impact? Because absolutely, you know, from a financial standpoint, you know, Pat Gelsinger on the VM Ware team has been doing a lot of acquisitions. Many of those Dave have been targeted at this space. You know, not to step Geo, but a bit NAMI. And even the pivotal acquisition all fit in this environment. So they've spent billions of dollars. It shouldn't be a net zero revenue to the top line of what VM Ware is doing in the space. >>So that would be an issue from Wall Street's perspective. But at the same time, it's again, they're playing the long game here. Do we have any pricing data at this point? >>So I still have not gotten clear data as to how they're doing pricing now. >>Okay, Um, and others that are in there and in the mix. We talked about Red Hat. Certainly Microsoft is in there with Arc. I've mentioned many times Cisco coming at this from a networking perspective. But who else do you see and then Antos with Google? >>Yeah. And you know, Dave, all the companies we're talking about here, you know, Pat Gelsinger has had to leverage his intel experience to how to balance that line between a partner with everybody but slowly competing against everybody. So, you know, we've spent many hours talking about the VM Ware Amazon relationship. Amazon does not admit the multi cloud a solution yet and does not have a management tool for supporting all of the kubernetes environment. But absolutely Microsoft and Google do. Cisco has strong partnerships with all the cloud environment and is doing that hybrid solution and Dave Justice nothingto expand on a little bit there. If you talk about V sphere, you say, Okay, Visa or seven trolling out Well, how long will it take most of the customer base to roll to this environment? There will be some that absolutely want to take advantage of kubernetes and will go there. But we know that is typically a multi year process to get most of the install base over onto this. And if you extend that out to where VM Ware is putting their solution into cloud environments, there's that tension between, you know, Is there a match actually, between what I have in my data center and what is in the managed environment managed by VM Ware and Amazon, or manage for to support some of the other cloud environment. So the positioning always is that you're going to do VM Ware everywhere, and therefore it's going to be consistent everywhere. Well, the devil's in the details because I have control on what's in my data center, and I might have a little bit less control to some of those managed services that I'm consuming. So absolutely something to keep a close eye on. And not just for VM, where everybody is having these concerns. Even if you talk about the native kubernetes distributions, most of the kubernetes services from the cloud providers are not, you know, immediately on the latest revision of kubernetes, >>right, So Okay, well, let's let's talk about that. Remember when open Stack first came out? It was a Hail Mary against Amazon. Yeah, well, the new Hail Mary and looks like it has more teeth is kubernetes right, because it allows portability and and and of course, you know Amazon doesn't publicly say this, but it's not. That's not good for Amazon. If you're reporting things, applications, moving things around, moving them out of the Amazon cloud, and that makes it easier. Of course, Amazon does support kubernetes right, But you've got >>alternatives. So, David, it's fascinating. So I've talked to many practitioners that have deployed kubernetes and one of the top reasons that they say that why they're using Kubernetes is so they have options with the cloud. When you also ask them what cloud they're running, they're running Amazon. Did they have planned to move off of it? Well, probably not. I had a great customer that I didn't interview with that one of the Cube con shows, and they actually started out with Azure just because it was a little further head with kubernetes and then for the services they wanted. They ended up moving to AWS and Dave. It's not a click a button and you move from one kubernetes to another. You need toe match up and say, Okay, here's the five or six services I'm using. What are the equivalent? What changes do I need to make? Multi cloud is not simple. Today, I mentioned Hashi Corp is one of those companies that help people across these environments. If you have haji solution and you're managing across multiple clouds, you look in the code and you understand that there's a lot of difference between those different clouds, and they simplify that. But don't eliminate it. Just it is not. There is not a way today. This is not a utility when you talk about the public cloud. So you know Kubernetes absolutely is existentially a little bit of a threat to Amazon but Amazon still going strong in that space. And you know that the majority of customers that have deployed kubernetes in the public cloud are doing it on Amazon just because of their position in the marketplace and what they're. >>So let's double click on that. So Jassy, an exclusive interview with John Furrier before last year's re invent, said, Look, we understand there's a lot of reasons why people might choose multiple clouds, you know, go through them in a developer preference. And I think I think, you know, people want o optionality and reduce lock in potentially. But I've always said, by the way, just as an aside, that that the risk of lock in it is far down on the list relative to business value, people will choose business value over over, you know, no lock in every time. About 15% of the customers you might not agree. Nonetheless, Jassy claimed that typically when you get into a multiple cloud environment, he didn't use the term multi cloud that it's it's not a 50 50. It's a premier primary cloud supplier. So might be 70 30 or 80 20 or even 90 10. But it's really that kind of, you know, imbalance. First of all, do you see that? And then what does that mean for how they approach of this space? Multi cloud and in particular. >>So I'm sorry. You're asking how Amazon should approach the space. And you've said that I don't think they'll >>eventually enter this market place. >>Yeah, you know, absolutely, Dave. You know, first of all, in general, yes, I do agree. It is not. There are certain financial companies that, you know, have always chosen two of everything. Because for regulation and you know certain we need to protect ourselves. We're gonna have to suppliers. We're going to keep them as even as possible. But that is a corner case. Most customers I have a primary cloud. That's what I'm doing. That what I t tries to get everybody on and you need to have Is there a reason why you want to use a secondary or tertiary cloud because there's a service that they need. Of course, Google. You often run it. It's like, Oh, well, there's certain data services that they're doing well And, of course, the business productivity solutions that Microsoft's doing where the relationship with Oracle that are driving people towards Microsoft. But just as we saw Amazon soften on their hybrid solutions, we spent a lot of time at re invent talking about all the various hybrid solutions. Um, since their customers are going to have multiple clouds on and even you take most of their customers that have M and a involved you buy another company, they might be using another cloud. As Microsoft's position in the marketplace has grown, you would expect that Amazon would have not just migration services but management services to match what customers need, especially in this kubernetes environment, seems that it seems a natural fit for them. It's possible they might just leverage, you know, partnerships with red hat VM ware, you know, in some of the other players for the time being. But if the market gets big enough and customers are asking for it, that's usually when Amazon response >>So let's let's wrap with what this means to the customer. And I've said that last decade really multi cloud was a symptom of multi vendor and not so much of the strategy that's changing. You know, clearly, jokes CIOs are being called in to clean up the crime scene on do you know, put in edicts corporate edicts around security and governance and compliance and so forth. So it started to become a complicated situation for a lot of companies. We've said that multi cloud is gonna it's gonna be they're going. People are going to put the right war load and the right cloud, etcetera, and this advantages to certain clouds. But what should customers be thinking specifically as it relates to v. Sphere seven? >>Yes. So, Dave, the biggest thing I would say that people need to look at it is that understanding in your organization that that boundary and line between infrastructure and application people have often looked at you looked at the ascendancy of VM Ware, Andi V. M's and then what's happening with cloud and containers. And we think of it from an infrastructure standpoint that I'm just changing the underlying pieces. This is where it lives and where I put things. But the really important thing is it's about my data and my applications, Dave. So if I'm moving an application to a new environment, how do I take advantage of it? You know, we don't just move it to a new environment and run it the same way we were doing it. I need to take advantage of those new environments. Kubernetes is involved in infrastructure, but the real piece is how I have my application, my developers, my app. Dev's working on this environment and therefore it might be that if VM Ware's the right environment, I'm doing a lot of it that the development team says, Hey, I need you to give me a pool and provisioned this for me and I can have my sandbox where I can move really fast. But VM Ware helped initially customers when they went from physical to virtual, move faster. From an infrastructure standpoint, what it needs to do to really enable this environment is help me move faster on the application side. And that's a big gap from VM. Ware's history is where the pivotal people and hefty O people and bit NAMI and all the new people are helping along to help that whole cloud native team. But that is a big shift from customers. So for this to be successful, it's not just, oh, the virtualization admin. He upgraded to the new thing. He made some changes and said, Okay, hey, I can give you a kubernetes cluster when you need it. It's really understanding what's going to happen on the application side in a lot of that is going to be very similar to what you're doing in cloud environments. And I think this is Dave often where your customers, they say, Oh, well, I did that cloud and it was too expensive and it was too hard, and I repatriated. Everything else is, well, you probably didn't plan properly and you didn't understand what you're getting yourself into. And you jumped into the deep end of the pool and oh, wait, I forgot how to learn how to swim. So you know, that is where we are. You know, Dave, you know the technology parts. Always the easiest piece. It's getting all of the organizational and political things sorted out. And you know the developer we know how important that is, we're seeing. It's great to see VM Ware pushing faster in this environment. Kudos to them for how fast they moved. Project Pacific to G. A. That is really impressive to see and can't wait to hear the customers roll out because if this is successful, we should be hearing great transformation stories from customers as to how this is enabling their business, enabling them to move faster on. You know, that has been what, one of the favorite stories that I've been telling with customers on the Cube last couple of years. >>The vast majority of VM Ware's business, of course, is on print, and essentially they're doing here is enabling developers in their customer base and the half a 1,000,000 customers to really develop in a cloud native manner. The question is, you know, from a ah, from a cultural standpoint, is that actually gonna happen? Or the developers gonna reject the organ and say, No, I want to develop in AWS or Microsoft in the cloud. I think VM Ware would say, We're trying to embrace no matter where they want to develop, but they're still going to be. That's interesting organizational tension or developer attention in terms of what their primary choices is. They're not. >>Yeah, Dave, Absolutely. We've been saying for years. That cloud is not a location. It is an operating model. So this is helping to enable that operating model more in the data center. There's still questions and concerns, of course around, you know, consumption on demand versus you know, whether whether you've bought the entire thing as more and more services become available in the public cloud, are those actually enabled to be able to be used, you know, in my data center hosted environment. So you know, this story is not completed, but we're definitely ready. I believe we're saying it's the multi clouds Chapter three of what? We've been watching >>you and you're seeing a major tam expansion yet again from VM Ware that started with the NSX. And then, of course, went in tow networking and storage. And now they've got a cloud security division. We're talking about the the cloud native capabilities here and and on and on, it goes to thanks for helping us break this VC seven announcement down and good job fixed. All right. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for stew Minimum. We'll see you next time on the Cube. >>Yeah,

>>law from Las Vegas. It's the two covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners, >>everyone welcome to the Cubes Live coverage in Las Vegas For AWS Reinvent 2019 starts Seventh year of the Cube coverage. Watching the big wave of Amazon continue to pound the pound the beach with more announcements. I'm John Ferrier instructing the seal for the new ways with my partner, David Dante, our next guest. Brian Hall, vice president. Product market for all of AWS >>Brian. Thanks for coming on. The Cube is >>really a pleasure to be here. We've had ready, eh? We've >>had many conversations off camera around opportunities, innovation and watching Andy Jackson Kino, which is a marathon. Three hours, 30 announcements. He's hit his mark. Live music, well done. But he got a ton of stuff in there. Let's unpack the key points. Tell us what you think people should pay attention to. Of all the announcements, one of the three major or one of the major areas that are that stand out that are most notable that you wanna highlight. >>Okay, I'll give you I'll give you four areas that I think are most notable from the keynote. First is we continue to be very focused on how do we give the deepest and broadest platform for all the different things people want to be able to do with computing. And we had a big announcements around new instance instances of easy to that air based on custom design silicon that that we built one of them is called IMF one. These are instances that are focused on machine learning inference. Where it turns out, up to 90% of the cost for machine learning often is. And so we have. We have a brand new set of instances reduce costs by up to 90% for people doing inference in the cloud. We also last year announced a armed chip that we developed called Graviton, and we announced today grab it on two and that their new instances that are running on gravity on thio, including our general purpose computer instances, are compute intensive instances and high memory instances, and people will get up to 40% price performance improvement by using the instances that are based on the >>method of the messages faster more inexpensive. But also there's an architectural shift going on with Compute Way. Heard that with the I. O. T. And the Outpost stuff where computer is moving to the data because moving around is well recognized and now affirmed its expensive. Yeah, this is a big part of it. You got local zone. What's that local zone? Was it a local >>s? So they're kind of two ways that we're addressing that the first is but making it so that our infrastructure is closer to customers. We have outposts for customers that want to run a WS in their own environments. We announced today local zones which are essentially taking the computer storage database capabilities and putting it closer to metro areas where people want to have a single digit Leighton see for applications when going to the clouds over video rendering for gaming and like, that's gonna be very helpful. Is >>that gonna be like a regional point of presence was gonna be installed, Eleni, on any premise anyone wants, I could put my >>outpost can be put in any environment where you have the right power network infrastructure. Local zones are managed by Amazon, so I don't have to have it. I don't have to manage any data center. Anything. I could just choose to deploy to an environment that is geographically very >>smaller than a region. >>Small isn't an ability. Oh, yeah, >>Right. Okay. That's like a mini zone. Yeah, and and so what about the the availability component? It's sort of up to the customer to figure that out There >>it is connected to a region. So, for instance, we're releasing in Los Angeles with availability now, and that's connected to the US West region. So all of the data backup redundancy application duplication of people want to be able to do could do be done, do the region. >>All right, So graviton processor got onto those early press reports that leaked out prior to reinvent. I noticed that didn't match kind of what was announced. Just clarify what the grab it on ship is doing. What was the key? Grab it on a piece of the news here >>s O gravitas to is a arm based process lor designed and built by a W s. It is powering three different instance. Types are for those who know the types the see instances am instances and are instances on dhe available starting today with M six, which is one of our general purpose computing platforms. And so it gives up to 40% better price performance. And there's a whole ecosystem of platforms and APS Little run unarmed today. >>Are you pushing the envelope on computer? Which is great you continue to do That's the core of jewels of AWS, which we love and storage and everything else. Warm story. I get that a second, but I want your thoughts on the stage maker. A lot of time was spent on stage maker kind of levels of the stack infrastructure, machine, learning stage maker and tools. And a I service is. But the big announcement was this new I d frame environments, not a framework. You're taking an environment like an i d for all the different frameworks. Where did this come from? How I mean so obvious. Now, looking back that no one has this this was a big party announcement. You explain this. >>Yeah. So what you're referring to is sage Makers studio. One of the things that people have really liked about sage maker is it takes the whole process of building a model training a model ended up deploying a model and gives you the steps to do it, but there it hasn't been brought together into one environment before. And so sage maker Studio is a integrated development environment for machine learning that lets you spin up. No books. Run experiments test how your models performing. Deploy your model of detective. Your model is drifting all from one place, which gives me essentially a single dashboard for my whole machine learning work. Look, what do >>you think the impact's gonna be on this? Because if I'm just looking at that obvious awesomeness, it's like, OK, that means anyone can get start using machine learning, you know, be a guru or a total math. >>That's that's fundamentally a lot of what we're doing is trying to reduce the barrier for developers or anyone who has who has a desire to start using machine learning to be able to do that and say, you maker studios just another way that we're doing it. Another one we announced on Monday or on Sunday night, of course, a machine learning powered musical keyboard. Everyone knew that was coming right? That's that's just a example like Deep Racer, where we're taking machine learning. We're making it immediately practical and even fun. And then giving people a way to start experimenting does that they'll eventually become developers who are using machine learning for much >>things. Have a question. As you simplify machine learning, people are concerned about explain ability. You guys, I think, have some ways of helping people understand what's going on inside the algorithm. So that's not a pure black box. Is that correct interpretation? >>It is. It is way announced. Today s age maker experiments, which is one of the one of the things about machine learning, is your kind of constantly tuning the different variables that you're using in your model tow. Understand what works? What doesn't. That's all black box. It's really hard to tell with sage major studio and experiments in particular. Now I can see how models perform differently based on tweaking variables, which starts making it much easier to explain what's happening. >>I think you guys got it right, and he laid out the databases. Multiple databases pick your database. It's okay that multiple databases just create some abstracted layers on top. I totally agree with that philosophy and I think that's gonna be a nice haven for opportunity. We agree. >>Used to be that because so much of running a database was all of the operational expertise it took that you wouldn't wanna have too many databases because that's that many database administrators and people doing the undifferentiated heavy lifting now with the cloud. If you have a data set that's better suited for something like a uh uh, workload in Cassandra, we announced the Manage Cassandra service today. You can just been up that service, load your data and start going. And so it creates a lot more opportunity >>talk about quantum because I know you guys yesterday, which is always a signal from Amazon and didn't make the keynote cut, but a ray relevant quantum announcement, the joke was, is gonna be a quantum supremacy messaging. But no, is more of a humble approach from you guys is more. Hey, we're gonna put some quantum out there setting expectations on the horizon, not over playing your hand on that. But you also have an institute with Caltech humble academic thing going on. What's the quantum inside Inside conversation like an Amazon? What's the what's going on with you. What can we expect? >>We're really excited about what quantum computing's going to be able to do for customers, and we say a lot of Amazon on many things. It's date one, which means it's really early. When we look at Quantum somewhere between zero and one, we're not quite sure where. So just live saying it's really early days. And so what we're doing is providing a platform, a partnership with Caltech, to advance the state of the art and then also a Quantum Solutions lab to help customers start to experiment. To figure out how might. This enabled me to solve problems that I couldn't do before >>you? No one can ask. So Andy talked in a keynote about most of the spend is still on. So the early days of cloud were about, you know, infrastructures of service, storage, computer networking, and it seems like we're entering This era of this data is really sort of the driver where you're applying analytics and machine learning. Data's everywhere, and it seems to be driving sort of new forms of compute. It's not just in this sort of stovepipe anymore. You see that you see that sort of new emergence of new compute were close. >>Yeah. Yeah, we definitely do. And in particular, the way that people are starting to use data lakes, which is essentially a way of saying, Hey, I have my data and one place in a bunch of different formats. And I want different analytical tools, different machine learning tools, different applications toe all be able to build on that same data. And once you do that, you start unlocking opportunities for different application developers, different lines of business to take advantage of it. Brian, >>Thanks for coming on The Cube. Really appreciate your VP of all product. Mark. You get the keys to the kingdom, you kind of see what's going on. Take us home and finish the exit interview out by by talking about the best. Now that Jesse Safer last. The best for last was the outpost G A and the five G wavelength with CEO of Arise on. Yeah, I mean, that's gonna bring five G to stadiums for drones, immersive experiences. I mean, that's a big vision. Yeah, I think it's home >>people. People are rightfully excited about five G for having faster connections, but the thing that we're also very excited about is the fact that all these devices will have much lower laden see and the ability to run interactive applications that having a W s with AWS wavelength hosted with the five G providers is gonna give developers chances to melt. >>Brian Hall with With AWS I'm John David Lot. They were here on the Cube studios, sponsored by Intel's Our Signature sponsors of the Intel's Cube Studios. When it's to a shoutout for Intel to them for supporting our mission, bringing the best content from events and extracting the signal from the noise will be back with more after this short break.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. We're here. Of'em World 2019. You're watching the Cubans? Our 10th year of coverage at the event. I'm stupid. And my co host this afternoon is Justin Warren. And happy to welcome back to the program. Bob Ghaffari, who's the general manager of the Enterprise and Claude networking division at Intel. Bob, welcome back. Great. Great to be here. Thank you. S Oh, uh, you know, it's a dressing. And I think that last year I felt like every single show that I went to there was an Intel executive up on the stage. You know, there's a way we talked about. You know, the tic tac of the industry is something that drove things. So last year? Ah, lot going on. Um, haven't seen intel quite as much, but we know that means that, you know, you're you and your team aren't really busy. You know a lot of things going on here. VM worldwide. Give us the update since last we spoke. Well, you know, um >> So I think we have to just go back a little bit in terms of how until has been involved in terms of really driving. Just hold this whole network transformation. I want to say it started about a decade ago when we were really focused on trying to go Dr. You know, a lot of the capabilities on to more of a standard architecture, right? In the past, you know, people were encumbered by challenging architectures, you know, using, you know, proprietary kind of network processors. We were able to bring this together until architecture we open source dp decay, which is really this fast packet processing, you know, library that we basically enabled the industry on. And with that, there's basically been this. I want to say this revolution in terms of how networking has come together. And so what we've seen since last year is you know how NSX via Miranda sex itself has really grown up and be able to sort of get to these newer, interesting usage models. And so, for us, you know what really gets us excited is being really involved with enabling hybrid cloud multi cloud from a network perspective. And that's just what really gets me out of bed every day. Yeah, An s >> t n is, I think, gone from that early days where it was all a bit scary and new, and people weren't quite sure that they wanted to have that. Whereas now Stu is the thing, it's people are quite happy and comfortable to use it. It's it's now a very accepted way of doing networking. What have you noticed about that change where people have gone? Well, actually, it's accepted. Now, what is that enabling customers to do with S T. N. >> You know, um I mean, I think what you know S Dan really does. It gives you a lot of the enterprise customers and cloud customers, and a lot of other is really the flexibility to be able to do what you really need to do much better. And so if you can imagine the first stage, we had to go get a lot of the functions virtualized, right? So we did that over the last 10 years, getting the functions virtualized, getting him optimized and making sure that the performance is there as a virtual function. The next step here is really trying to make sure that you know you weaken enable customers to be able to do what they need to end their micro service's and feels. Or do this in a micro segmented kind of view. When and so um and also being in a scenario, we don't have to trombone the traffic, you know, off to be there, be it's inspected or, you know, our load balance and bringing that capability in a way, in a distributed fashion to where the workloads Neto happen. >> Yeah, who you mentioned micro segmentation there, And that's something which has been spoken about again for quite a while. What's the state of play with micro segmentation? Because it some customs have been trying to use it and found it a little bit tricky. And so they were seeing lots of vendors who come in and say We'll help you manage that. What's the state of play with Michael segmentation From your perspective, >> you know, I would say the way I would categorize it as micro segmentation has definitely become a very important usage model. In turn, how did really contain, you know, uh, policies within certain segments, right? So, one you know, you're able to sort of get to a better way of managing your environments. And you're also getting to a better way of containing any kind of threats. And so the fact that you can somehow, you know, segment off, um, you know, areas and FAA. And if you basically get some kind of, like attack or some kind of, you know, exploit, it's not gonna, you know, will go out of that segmented area to to some extent, that simplifies how you look at your environment, but you want to be able to do it in the fashion that you know, helps. Ultimately, the enterprises managed what they got on their environments. >> So, Bob, one of things that really struck me last year was the messaging that VM were had around networking specifically around multi cloud. It really hearken back to what I had heard from my syrup reacquisition on. Of course. Now, Veum, we're extending that with of'em or cloud in all of you know, aws the partnerships they are false, extended with azure, with Google in non premises with Delhi emcee and others. And a big piece of that message is we're gonna be able to have the same stack on on both sides. You could kind of explain. Where does Intel fit in there? How does Intel's networking multi cloud story dovetail with what we're hearing from VM? Where Right, So I >> think >> the first thing is that until has been very involved in terms of being into, um, any on Prem or public clouds, we get really involved there. What were you really trying to do on my team does is really focusing on the networking aspects. And so, for us is to not only make sure that if you're running something on prime, you get the best experience on from but also the consistency of having a lot of the key instruction sets and any cloud and be able to sort of, ah, you know, managed that ballistically, especially when you're looking at a hybrid cloud environment where you're basically trying to communicate between a certain cloud. It could be on Prem to another cloud that might be somewhere else. Having the consistent way of managing through encrypted tunnels and making sure you're getting the kind of performance that you need to be able to go address that I think these are the kind of things that we really focus on, and I think that for us, it's not only really bring this out and, um improving our instructions that architecture's so most recently What we did is, you know, we launched our second generations Aeon Scaleable processors that really came out in April, and so for us that really takes it to the next level. We get some really interesting new instruction, sets things like a V X 5 12 We get also other kind of, you know, you know more of, like inference, analytic inference capabilities with things like Deal Boost that really brings things together so you can be more effective and efficient in terms of how you look at your workloads and what you need to do with them, making sure they're secure but also giving you the insights that you need to be able to make that kind of decisions you want from a enterprise perspective >> steward. It always amuses me how much Intel is involved in all of his cloud stuff when it it would support. We don't care about hardware anymore. It's all terribly obstructed. And come >> on, Justin, there is no cloud. It's just someone tells his computer and there's a reasonable chance there's an Intel component or two Wednesday, right? >> Isn't Intel intelligence and the fact that Intel comes out and is continuing to talk to customers and coming to these kinds of events and showing that it's still relevant, and the technology that you're creating? Exactly how that ties into what's happening in cloud and in networking, I think is an amazing credit to what? To Intel's ability to adapt. >> You know, it's definitely been very exciting, and so not only have we really been focused on, how do we really expand our processor franchise really getting the key capabilities we need. So any time, anywhere you're doing any kind of computer, we want to make sure we're doing the best for our customers as possible. But in addition to that, what we've really done is we've been helped us around doubt our platform capabilities from a solution perspective to really bring out not only what has historically been a very strong franchise, pressed with her what we call our foundational nicks or network interface cards, but we've been eldest would expand that to be able to bring better capabilities no matter what you're trying to do. So let's say, for example, you know, um, you are a customer that wants to be able to do something unique, and you want to be able to sort of accelerate, you know, your own specific networking kind of functions or virtual switches. Well, we have the ability to do that. And so, with her intel, f p g. A and 3000 card as an example, you get that capability to be able to expand what you would traditionally do from a platform level perspective. >> I want to talk about the edge, but before we go there, there's a topic that's hot conversation here. But when I've been talking to Intel for a lot of years out container ization in general and kubernetes more specifically, you know, where does that fit into your group? I mentioned it just cause you know that the last time Intel Developer forum happened, a friend of mine gave a presentation working for intel, and, you know, just talking about how much was going on in that space on. Do you know, I made a comment back there this few years ago. You know, we just spent over a decade fixing all the networking and storage issues with virtualization. Aren't we going to have to do that again? And containers Asian? Of course, we know way are having toe solve some of those things again. So, you >> know, and for us, you know, as you guys probably know, until it's been really involved in one of the biggest things that you know sometimes it's kept as a secret is that we're probably one of the bigger, um, employers of software engineers. And so until was really, really involved. We have a lot of people that started off with, you know, open source of clinics and being involved there. And, of course, containers is sort of evolution to that. And for us really trying to be involved in making sure that we can sort of bring the capabilities that's needed from our instructions, said architecture is to be able to do containers kubernetes, and, you know, to do this efficient, efficiently and effectively is definitely key to what we want to get done. >> All right, so that was a setup. I I wanted for EJ computing because a lot of these we have different architectures we're gonna be doing when we're getting to the edge starting here. A little bit of that show that this show. But it's in overall piece of that multi cloud architecture that we're starting to build out. You know, where's your play? >> Well, so for us, I mean the way that we look at it as we think it starts all, obviously with the network. So when you are really trying to do things often times Dedge is the closest to word that data is being, you know, realized. And so for us making sure that, you know, we have the right kind of platform level capabilities that can take this data. And then you have to do something with this data. So there's a computer aspect to it, and then you have to be able to really ship it somewhere else, right? And so it's basically going to be to another cloud and might be to another micro server somewhere else. And so for us, what really sets the foundation is having a scale will set a platform sort of this thick, too thin kind of concept. That sort of says, depending on what you're trying to do, what you need to have something that could go the answer mold into that. And so for us, having a scaleable platform that can go from our Biggers eons down to an Adam processor is really important. And then also what we've been doing is working with the ecosystem to make sure that the network functions and software defined when and you know that we think sets a foundation to how you want to go and live in this multi cloud world. But starting off of the edge, you want to make sure that that is really effective, efficient. We can basically provide this in a very efficient capability because there's some areas where you know this. It's gonna be very price sensitive. So we think we have this awesome capability here with our Adam processors. In fact, yesterday was really interesting. We had Tom Burns and Tom Gillis basically get on the stage and talk about how Dell and VM we're collaborating on this. Um, and this basically revolves around platforms based on the Adam Process sitter, and that could scale up to our ze aan de processors and above that, so it depends on what you're trying to do, and we've been working with our partners to make sure that these functions that start off with networker optimized and you can do as much compute auras little computer as you want on that edge >> off the customers who were starting to use age because it's it's kind of you, but it's also kind of not. It's been around for a while. We just used to call it other things, like robots for the customers who were using engine the moment. What's what's the most surprising thing that you've seen them do with your technology? >> You know what is interesting is, you know, we sometimes get surprised by this ourselves and so one of the things that you know, some customers say, Well, you know, we really need low cost because all we really care about is just low level. You know, we we want to build the deploy this into a cafe, and we don't think you're gonna be all that the price spot because they automatically think that all intel does is Biggs eons, and we do a great job with that. But what is really interesting is that with their aunt in processors, we get to these very interesting, you know, solutions that are cost effective and yet gives you the scalability of what you might want to do. And so, for example, you know, we've seen customers that say, Yeah, you know, we want to start off with this, but you know, I'm networking, is it? But you know what? We have this plan, and this plan is like this. Maybe it's a 90 day plan or it could be up to a two year plan in terms of how they want to bring more capabilities at that branch and want to want to be able to do more. They want to be able to compute more. They want to make decisions more. They want to be able to give their customers at that place a much better experience that we think we have a really good position here with their platforms and giving you this mix and match capability, but easily built to scale up and do what our customers want. Great >> Bob, You know, when I think about this space in general, we haven't talked about five g yet, and you know, five g WiFi six, you know, expected to have a significant impact on networking. We're talking a little bit about you know edge. It's gonna play in that environment. Uh, what do you hear from Augusta Summers? How much is that involved with the activities you're working through? You know, >> it's definitely, really interesting. So, uh, five g is definitely getting a lot of hype. Were very, very involved. We've been working on this for a while until it's, uh, on the forefront of enabling five G, especially as it relates to network infrastructure, one of the key focus areas for us. And so the way that we sort of look at this on the edges that a lot of enterprises, some of them are gonna be leading, especially for cases where Leighton see is really important. You want to be able to make decisions, you know, really rather quickly. You want to be able to process it right there. Five g is gonna be one of these interesting technologies that starts, and we're already starting to see it enabled these new or used cases, and so we're definitely really excited about that. We're already starting to see this in stadium experience being enabled by five G what we're doing on the edge. There's experiences like that that we really get excited when we're part of, and we're really able to provide this model of enabling, you know, these new usage models. So for us, you know the connectivity aspects five g is important. Of course, you know, we're going to see a lot of work clothes used for G as basically predominant option. And, of course, the standard wired connective ity of I p m pl less and other things. >> I want to give you the final word. Obviously, Intel long partnership. As we know you know, current CEO Pack else under, you know, spent a good part of his, you know, early part of career at Intel. Give us the takeaway intel VM wear from VM 2019. You know, I mean, we've had a >> long partnership here between intel on VM, where we definitely value the partnership for us. It started off with virtual light servers a while back. Now we've been working on networking and so for us, the partnership has been incredible. You know, we continue to be able to work together. Of course. You know, we continue to see challenges as we go into hybrid cloud Malta Cloud. We are very excited to how in terms of how we can take this to the next level. And, you know, we're very happy to be be great partners with them. >> All right. Well, Bob Ghaffari, thank you for giving us the Intel networking update. We go up the stack down the stack, Multi cloud, all out the edge, coyote and all the applications for Justin Warren. I'm stupid. Men will be back for our continuing coverage of the emerald 2019. Thanks for watching the Cube.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering AWS reinforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and its ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back. It was two cubes. Live coverage in Boston, Massachusetts, for Amazon Web services reinforces A W s, his first inaugural conference around security, cloud security and all the benefits of security vendors of bringing. We're here with a man who runs the marketplace and more. Dave McCann Cube, alumni vice president of migration, marketplace and control surfaces. That's a new tail you were that you have here since the last time we talked. Lots changed. Give us the update. Welcome to the Cube. >> Great to be back, ma'am. Believe it's seven months of every event. >> Feels like this. Seven years. You know, you've got a lot new things happening. >> We do >> explain. You have new responsibility. You got the marketplace, which we talked about a great product solutions. What else do you have? >> So we've obviously been expanding our service portfolio, right? So either us is launching. New service is all the time. We have a set of service is a road in the migration of software. So I run. No, the immigration Service's team and interesting. We were sitting in Boston, and that's actually headquartered 800 yards down the road. So there's a set of surfaces around the tools to help you as a CEO. Move your applications onto the clothes. Marketplace is obviously where we want you to find short where you need to buy. And then once you get into the topic of governance, we had one product called Service Catalog and reinvent. We announced a new product. That was a preview called Control. Yesterday we went to G A full availability off control, Terror and Control term service catalog together are in the government space, but we're calling them control service is because it's around controlling the access off teams to particular resources. So that's control service. >> What people moving into the cloud and give us a sense of the the workload. I know you see everything but any patterns that you can see a >> lot of patterns and merging and migration, and they are very industry specific. But there are some common patterns, so you know we're doing migrations and frozen companies were weighed and professional service is run by. Todd Weatherby is engaged in hundreds of those migrations. But we also have no over 70 partners that we've certified of migration partners. Migration partners are doing three times as many migrations as our old professional service is. Team are doing so in collection. There's a lot going on there, one of the common patterns. First of all, everybody is moved a Web development other websites have done. They're all running on the AWS know what they're doing is they're modernizing new applications. So the building in Europe or bring enough over moving onto containers. So it was a lie that ran on a sever server on. As they move into the clothes, they're gonna reshape the throw away. Some of the court brief the court up into micro service is on. Deploy out, Let's see on E. C s, which is continuing. There's a lot of application organization, and then on the migration side, we're seeing applications clearly were migrating a lost a lot of ASAP. So the big partners like Deloitte and Accenture are doing a C P migrations, and we've done a lot of ASAP migrations. And then there are other business applications are being moved with particular software vendors. You know there's a company here in Boston called Pegasystems. They do a world leading workflow platform. We've worked with Pagan, and we have migrated loss of paga warped floors in dozens of paying customers up on the float. >> You innovated on the marketplace, which is where people buy so they can contract with software. So now you got moving to the cloud, buying on the cloud, consuming the cloud and then governing it and managing that aspect all under one cohesive unit. That's you. Is that good? >> Yeah, it's a good way to think about it. It's a san of engineering teams with Coleman purpose for the customer. So you know, one of the things we do AWS is we innovate a lot, and then we organize the engineering teams around a common customer needs. So we said, above all of the computer stories service is on. We pay attention to the application layer. We described the application, So if you think of a migration service is says, I've actually got a service called Discovery, I crawl over your servers and I find what you have way. Then what we do is we have a tool that says, Are you gonna bring and move the till. So you have to build a business case. We just bought a company in Canada called TSA Logic. They had a Super Two for building a business case that said, what would this absolutely running with either of us. >> So is the need of the business case. What's the courtney that you guys have focused on? What was that? >> So, interestingly, we run more Windows Server and the clothes when Microsoft. So you actually have to business keys here. So many windows servers are running on print. What does it look like when a run on either the U. S. And T s so logic? Really good, too. And we find our customers using it. That says, Here's your own prim Windows server configuration with an app on run the mortal What would it look like when it runs on AWS? >> But why would you just do that with a spreadsheet? What? What is the T s so logic do that you couldn't do especially >> well? First of all, you want to make a simple too Somebody has to go run a spreadsheet. They've turned it into a tool that a business years Ercan used a sales person you could use on. They've built on top of a database. So it's got a rich set of choices. You are richer than you put in. A special with a U IE is intuitive, and you're gonna learn it in 20 minutes. I'm not gonna have you made up >> this date in their best practice things like that that you can draw a library >> of what's going down, and it keeps the data store of all the ones we've done. So we're turning that into two. Were giving Old Toller solution architect. >> Well, you got a good thing going on with the marketplace. Good to see you wrapping around those needs there. I gotta ask for the marketplace. Just give us the latest stats. How many subscriptions air in the marketplace these days? What's the overall number in the marketplace? It's >> pretty exciting. Way decided just at San Francisco to announce that we now have over 1,000,000 active subscriptions in the marketplace, which is a main boggling number on its own 1,000,000 subscriptions. Ice of Scrape. Within those subscriptions, we've got over 240 foes and active accounts, you know, and the audience doors you could be an enterprise with 100 cases and in an enterprise. What we typically see is that there are seven or eight teams that are buying or using software, so we'll have seven or eight accounts that have the right to subscribe. So you could be a one team and you're in another team you're buying B I tools. You're buying security tools. So those accounts on what? We're announcing the show for the first time ever. Its security is we have over 100,000 security subscriptions. That's a while. That's a big number. Some companies only have 100 customers, and the market, please. Our customers are switched on 100,000 security. So >> many product listings is that roughly it's just security security. At 300 >> there's over 100 listings. Thing is a product with a price okay on a vendor could be Let's see Paolo off networks or crowdstrike or trains or semantic or McAfee or a brand new company like Twist located of Israel. These companies might have one offer or 20 offers, so we have over 800 offers from over 300. Vendors were having new vendors every week. >> That's the next question. How many security app developers are eyes? Do you have over 300? 300? Okay. About 100. Anyway, I heard >> this morning from Gartner that they believe that are over 1000 security vendors. So I'm only 30% done. I got a little work >> tonight. How >> do you >> govern all this stuff? I was a customer. Sort of Make sure that they're in compliance. >> Great question. Steven Smith yesterday was talking about governance once she moved things on the clothes. It's very elastic. You could be running it today, not running a tomato, running it in I d running in Sydney. So it's easy to fire up running everywhere. So how did the governance team of a company nor watch running where you know, you get into tagging, everything has to be tagged. Everything has to have a cord attached to it. And then you do want to control who gets to use what I may have bought about a cuter appliance. But I don't know that I gave you rates to use it, right, so we could have border on behalf of the company. But I need to grant you access. So we launched a couple of years ago. Service catalog is our first governance to and yesterday we went into full release over new to call the control tower. >> Right. What you announced way reinvents >> preview. And yesterday we went to Jenny. What control does is it Natural Owes me to set up a set of accounts. So if you think of it, your development team, you've got David Kay and tested and the product ain't your brand new to the company. I'm a little worried. What, you're going to get up. You >> don't want to give him the keys to the kingdom, >> so I'm actually going to grant you access to a set of resources, and then I'm gonna apply some rules, or what we call God reels is your brand. You you haven't read my manual, you're in the company. So I'm gonna put a set of God reels on you to make sure that you follow our guide length >> Just training. And so is pressing the wrong button, that kind of thing. So I gotta ask you I mean, on the buying side consumption. I heard you say in a talk upstairs on Monday. You have a buyer, buyer, lead, engineering teams and cellar Let engineering, which tells me that you got a lot of innovation going on the marketplace. So the results are obviously they mention the listings. But one of the trends that's here security conference and it was proper is ecosystems importance in monetization. So back in the old days, Channel partners were a big part of the old computer industry. You're essentially going direct with service listings, which is great. How does that help the channel? Is there sinking around channel as a buyer opportunity? How do you How does that work with the market? Is what your thinking around the relationship between the scale of a simplicity and efficiency, the marketplace with the relationships the channel partners may have with their customers? And how do you bridge that together? What's the thinking >> you've overstayed? Been around a long time? >> Uh, so you have 90 Sydney? Well, the channels have been modernizes the nineties. You think about a >> long time. It's really interesting when we conceived Market please candidly. Way didn't put the channel in marketplace, and in retrospect, that was a miss. Our customers are big customers or small customers. Trust some of the resellers. Some resellers operates surely on price. Some resellers bring a lot of knowledge, even the biggest of the global 2000 Fortune 100. They have a prepared advisor. Let's take a company record. You often got 700 security engineers that are blue chip companies in America trusts or they buy the software the adoptive recommends. So mark it, please really didn't accommodate for Let's Pick another One in Europe, it would be computer center. So in the last two years we've dedicated the data separate engineering team were actually opened up. A team in a different city on their sole customer is a reseller. And so we launch this thing called Consulting Partner Private offer. And so now you're Palo. Also, for your trained, you can authorize active or serious or s h I to be the re sailor at this corporation, and they can actually negotiate the price, which is what a role resellers do. They negotiate price in terms, so we've actually true reseller >> write software for fulfillment through the marketplace. Four partners which are now customers to you now so that they could wrap service is because that's something we talk to. People in the Channel number one conversation is we love the cloud. But how do I make money and that is Service is right. They all want to wrap Service's around, So okay, you guys are delivering this. Is that my getting that right? You guys are riding a direct link in tow marketplace for partners, and they could wrap service is around there, >> will you? Seeing two things? First of all, yes. We're lowering the resale of to sell the software for absolutely. So you re sailor, you can quote software you build rebuild for you so that I become the billing partner for a serious or a billing partner for active on active can use marketplace to fulfill clothes software for their customers. Dan Burns to see you about pretty happy. You crossed the line into a second scenario, which is condone burns attached. Service is on. Clearly, that's a use case we hear usually would we hear use cases way end up through feeling that a little, little not a use case I have enabled, but we've done >> what you're working on It. We've had what the customer. How does the reseller get into the marketplace? What kind of requirements are there. Is it? Is it different than some of your other partners, or is it sort of a similar framework? >> They have to become an approved resale or so First of all, they have to be in a peon partner. I mean, we work tightly with a p N e p M screens partners for AWS. So Josh Hoffman's team Terry Wise, his team, whole part of team screen. The reseller we would only work with resellers are screened and approved by the PM Wants the AP en approved way have no set up a dedicated program team. They work with a reseller with trained them what's involved. Ultimately, however, the relationship is between Splunk in a tree sailor, a five and a three sailor named after a tree sailor or Paulo trend or Croat straight. So it's up to the I S V to tail us that hey, computer centers my reseller. I don't control that relationship. A fulfillment agent you crow strike to save resellers, and I simply have to meet that work so that I get the end customer happy. >> So your enabler in that instance, that's really no, I'm >> really an engine, even team for everybody engineer for the Iast way, engineer for the buyer. And they have to engineer for the re. So >> you have your hands in a lot of the action because you're in the middle of all this marketplace and you must do a lot of planning. I gotta ask you the question and this comes up. That kind of put on my learning all the Amazon lingo covering reinvent for eight years and covering all the different events. So you gotta raise the bar, which is an internal. You keep innovating. Andy Jassy always sucks about removing the undifferentiated heavy lifting. So what is the undifferentiated heavy lifting that you're working toe automate for your customers? >> Great questions. Right now there's probably three. We'll see what the buyer friction is, and then we'll talk about what the sale of friction is. The buyer frustration that is, undifferentiated. Heavy lifting is the interestingly, it's the team process around choosing software. So a couple of customers were on stage yesterday right on those big institutions talked about security software. But in order for an institution to buy that software, there are five groups involved. Security director is choosing the vendor, but procurement has to be involved. Andre. No procurement. We can't be left out the bit. So yesterday we did. The integration to Cooper is a procurement system. So that friction is by subscribing marketplace tied round. Match it with appeal because the p O is what goes on the ledgers with the company. A purchase order. So that has to be a match in purchase order for the marketplace subscription. And then engineers don't Tidwell engineers to always remember you didn't tag it. Hi, this finance nowhere being spent. So we're doing work on working service catalog to do more tagging. And so the buyer wants good tagging procurement integrated. So we're working on a walk slow between marketplace service catalog for procurement. >> Tiring. So you've kind of eliminated procurement or are eliminating procurement as a potential blocker, they use another. Actually, we won't be >> apart for leading procurement. VPs want their V piece of engineering to be happy. >> This is legal. Next. Actually, Greek question. We actually tackled >> legal. First, we did something called Enterprise Code tracked and our customer advisory board Two years ago, one of our buyers, one of our customers, said we're gonna be 100 vendors to deploy it. We're not doing 100 tracks. We've only got one lawyer, You know, 6000 engineers and one lawyer. Well, lawyers, good cord is quickly. So we've created a standard contract. It take stain to persuade legal cause at risk. So we've got a whole bunch of corporations adopting enterprise contract, and we're up to over 75 companies adopting enterprise contract. But legal is apartment >> so modernizing the procurement, a key goal >> procurement, legal, security, engineering. And then the next one is I t finance. So if you think of our budgets on their course teams on AWS, everything needs to be can become visible in either of US budgets. And everything has become visible in course exporter. So we have to call the rate tags. >> I heard a stat that 6,000,000 After moving to the cloud in the next 6,000,000 3 to 5 years, security as a focus reinforces not a summit. It's branded as a W s reinforce, just like reinvents. Same kind of five year for security. What's your impression of the show so far? No, you've been highly active speaking, doing briefing started a customer's burn, the midnight oil with partners and customers What's that? What's your vibe of the show? What's your takeaway? What's the most important thing happening here? What's your what's your summary? >> So I always think you get the truth in the booth. Cut to the chase. I made a customer last night from a major media company who we all know who's in Los Angeles. His comment was weeks, either. These expectations wasn't she wanted to come because he goes to reinvent. Why am I coming to Boston in June? Because I'm gonna go to reinvent November on this. The rates of security for a major media company last night basically said, I love the love. The subject matter, right? It's so security centric. He actually ended up bringing a bunch of people from his team on, and he loves the topics in the stations. The other thing he loved was everybody. Here is insecurity, reinvent. There's lots of people from what's the functions, But everybody here is a security professional. So that was the director of security for a media company. He was at an event talking to one of the suppliers, the marketplace. I asked this president of a very well known security vendor and I said. So what's your reaction to reinforce? And he said, Frankly, when you guys told me it was coming, we didn't really want the bother. It's the end of the quarter. It's a busy time of year. It's another event, he said. I am sure glad we came on. He was standing talking to these VP of marketing, saying, We want to bring more people, make sure, So he's overjoyed. His His comment was, when I go to Rio event 50,000 people but only 5% of their own security. I can't reinforce everybody's insecurity >> in Houston in 2020. Any inside US tow? Why Houston? I have no clue what I actually think >> is really smart about the Vineyard, and this is what a customer said Last night. I met a customer from Connecticut who isn't a load to travel far. They don't get to go to reinvent in Vegas. I think what we did when we came to Boston way tapped into all the states that could drive. So there are people here who don't get to go to reinvent. I think when we go to Houston, we're going to get a whole bunch of takes its customers. Yeah, you don't get a flight to Vegas. So I think it's really good for the customer that people who don't get budget to travel >> makes sense on dry kind of a geographic beograd. The world >> if we're expanding the customers that can learn. So from an education point of view, we're just increase the audience that we're teaching. Great, >> Dave. Great to have you on. Thanks for the insights and congratulations on the new responsibility as you get more coz and around marketplace been very successful. 1,000,000 subscriptions. That's good stuff again. They were >> you reinvented and >> a couple of months, Seven days? What? We're excited. I love covering the growth of the clouds. Certainly cloud security of his own conference. Dave McCann, Vice president Marketplace Migration and Control Service is controlled cattle up. How they how you how you move contract and governed applications in the future. All gonna be happening online. Cloud Mr. Q coverage from Boston. They just reinforced. We right back with more after this short break

(upbeat synthesized music) >> Announcer: Live from the Javits Center in New York City, it's The Cube, covering Inforum 2017. Brought to you by Infor. >> Welcome back to The Cube's live coverage of Inforum, I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Dave Vellante. We're joined by Pam Murphy, she is the Infor COO, thanks so much for coming on the program-- >> Thank you for having us, thank you. >> So you're hosting for the third time, a special session devoted to WIN, the Women's Infor Network. Tell us a little bit about this session and who are the guests and what we can expect. >> Yes, absolutely, so as you said, it's our third year hosting it. It's a very popular session, it's the only non product session of the entire conference and open to everybody, men and women. We always have a fantastic lineup of speakers and this year is no different. So the way we work it is we do a combination of TED Talks and panel sessions so we've got Tan Lee, who's the founder of Emotiv brain augmentation technology. And then we've got Reshma Saujani who's the founder of Girls Who Code. She's done great stuff in terms of pioneering STEM and getting girls to code. So she's going to talk us through her work, if you will, in training so many girls to code and how she wants girls to adopt, and behaviors she wants them to exhibit in this industry. And then we've got what will be I'm sure a lively panel with Ambassador Susan Rice and Farah Pandith and we're going to be talking about the government's ability to manage the terrorism that we're seeing today and we're going to be talking counter terrorism, we're going to be talking about what lessons are we learning from what's going on in Europe and what is the role in technology in helping curb terrorism. So that's going to be an exciting and interesting session. And then we're going to have Dr. Jill Biden come in and hopefully lighten up the session and talk about resilience and leadership today, so very exciting, very much looking forward to it. It's 11 AM tomorrow morning in the Special Events Hall, and hopefully it will be good if not better than the last two years. >> Rebecca: And we're going to have many of those guests on our program >> Yes. >> after that too. So why, what is the purpose of it? It sounds like a great session and it's going to be enlightening and exciting to hear all those women talk, but what is your goal in gathering this group of women? >> I guess I should go back to the founding of WIN. So I started WIN probably over four or five years ago at this point and its purpose was to just galvanize and bring women together, allow forum in which they could mentor each other and where we could work on the advancement of women within the organization. It's something that as I traveled through the offices, people have been asking me a lot to create that forum, create that environment and so we've got hundreds of WIN chapters around the globe with thousands of women participating. So we have very regular sessions and we talk about topics that are relevant to women and also just about advancing their careers and given that at a forum we have so many thousands and thousands of not only our own Infor WIN members but also customers, we just thought it was a great opportunity to have one of our sessions at Inforum and invite inspiring female speakers to come and talk to us about their experiences, how they got to be where they are, the challenges that they met along the way. So what's interesting is that the only WIN or female aspect of the session is the fact that every speaker on stage is female. Outside of that, that's where the relevance ends in the sense that it really is talking to topics that is applicable to everyone. So that's why it is just a topic and an audience that appeals to everybody, men, female, old, and young. >> So these sessions are always interesting and inspiring. What kind of impact have they had? Can you share with us any results? >> Absolutely, so we have, first of all they're very inspirational for everybody attending and I've had customers, not only our own employees, but I've had customers reach out to me and say that they were inspired by a story and it caused them to take action and change in their life. And before they may have felt something but they heard from somebody else saying that how they overcame it and it caused them to honestly take change within their own lives and their own organizations. So for customers, partners, whoever's attending, it just, to hear from someone else, you often have the perception with these speakers that they have this fantastic upbringing, fantastic education, they're successful because it's a function of that. Well actually that's not often the case. People have had a hard upbringing or they've met a lot of challenges around the way and it's how they overcame those challenges and the resilience that they brought into the mix is what inspires people. So really that's what I would say people get out of it, and often spawning from that, we often end up as well tailoring programs or development techniques which we feel would be of benefit to folks beyond that. So one of our speakers last year prompted a big thought about diversity and how we should be dealing with ways in which we may be dismissive of certain topics or abrasive to people, so it's thought provoking and it inspires action, which is obviously what we want to get out of it. >> We funded a nonprofit initiative last year in partner with another journalism outfit, The GroundTruth, to study women in tech and we presented at the, we had The Cube at the Grace Hopper Conference and some of the things that came out of that, I wanted to comment, chief data officers actually have a disproportionately higher percentage of women, maybe it's 'cause it's such a thankless job and they're (laughing) wiling to take it on. And then we found cyber bullying had a very negative effect on the participation of women in tech which is about 17% of the women. And then of course the salary disparity, one of the areas that we found was most egregious was Cambridge, Mass, now this is supposed to be a progressive, relatively liberal area. >> Our hometown. >> And it was huge, our hometown, very high disparity of low participation of women in tech. Any thoughts on that data and what kind of progress you'd like to see us make as an industry? >> I'm hopeful of the fact that the next generation will look back on where technology is now from the perspective of the low representation of women and that whole diversity factor and look on it as being a non-issue. I'm hopeful in the sense that, I don't think it's going to be as pronounced as we have it now. I think we're doing a far better job of going out to colleges, to institutions, and enabling girls and providing girls with coding courses. So I'm hoping it's not going to be a longterm issue for us. From our perspective, to your point, we look at the various line of businesses and functions within our organization and we see where is the disparity arising and where do we need to focus? And so interestingly enough, if you look at G&A functions or if you look at marketing functions, it's 50/50, right, in terms of representation, but there's definitely certain functions where either the nature of what they're doing or if it's a high travel related function, meaning you're away for long periods of time, there are certainly the areas I think which don't have as equal distribution in terms of men, and for those really, we've been working on creating programs to ease those burdens that may be had, or else promote them positively where it literally is an unconscious bias, if you will. It's a long topic, for sure, that I could go on about for a long period of time but I just think it's constant, looking at unconscious biases, it's looking at ways in which we feel that there's fairness, if you will, into the equation. And a lot of the time I honestly feel that it's not conscious, if you will, and it therefore just needs to be looked at specifically at ways and means in which that could be addressed or tackled. >> So as a successful woman in technology, COO at a major technology company, what advice do you have for that young woman who wants to get into technology but is dispirited by the headlines and by what appears to be a very macho culture where there is vast salary discrepancies? >> Yeah, it's unfortunate that that has come out all too much more frequently and with volume in the last six months for the companies that we're aware of. But I would say, I personally haven't experienced that, and I'm personally of the view that, by the way, I never meant to end up in this industry, so I look back and think how on Earth did I actually get here, but I think you have to be willing to take risks and you have to be wiling to dismiss a lot of what you hear and look on the fact that there is a lot of very successful women, even within Infor. Since we started WIN, we have had a huge increase in the amount of SVPs and VPs within our organization. I think it's something like a 60% increase in terms of who we have. There is so much more women in very, very senior roles now than we've ever had before, so I'm hopeful that it is changing. I hope that some recent coverage and recent events have not, will not create a longterm impact, but I think people just need to look and see with the tech industry booming, with the way in which people are being compensated, that it's a good industry in which you can be very successful and do great things. >> Dave: And cloud helps. >> Yeah. >> It does. >> Yeah. >> There are far more women at application oriented shows than there are infrastructure oriented, 'cause hardware guys are hardware guys. I don't know why, like mechanics, other than Mona Lisa Vito, mostly hardware people. But let's shift gears a little bit and talk about the global alliances. You are running that initiative here. These are folks that we haven't typically seen at Inforum but they're coming out of the wood works, what's going on, what's driving that? >> Yeah first of all we have a fantastic base of existing partners who had great successes in implementing Infor applications for their customers and so but with the growth that we've been seeing, honestly, in our business, over the last number of years, we just need to have more and more delivery capacity to create more choice for our customers as to who they can go to to implement our software. And if you think about the move to the cloud and if you think about digitalization and the fact that every customer is becoming more consumed and obsessed with technology because it's changing their businesses so fundamentally, they do want the option and the choice of having the large global system integrators, digital integrators, that they can go to do massive transformation work and business process re-engineering and program management and change management. And so for us it was important to form good reliances with the Deloittes, the Accentures, the Caps, and the Grant Thorntons in order to provide that larger ecosystem of transformational services that we can offer to our customers. So it's great, they're all platinum sponsors here at Inforum this year and there's over a hundred very senior executives and managing directors from those four. And we're just very excited about the extent and pace to which they're building out Infor practices, so it's great. >> I have to ask you, so don't hate me for saying this, but those guys love to pig out on big complicated ERP implementations that take two and three years. Is that world just going away and it's moving toward more of a digital transformation and a whole new line of thinking and that's why there's a good fit with Infor or is it something else? >> I think they understand and know that the older days of a company spending $100 million on an ERP implementation are gone, that's really not acceptable anymore. It's absolutely not our strategy, as you know from being here at the conference, our strategy is around creating industry specific end to end suites which don't require modifications and which are purpose built for the cloud. And so that is very clear to them and they understand that and are embracing the concept because they realize that cloud is an enabler, it's just another deployment method, but fundamentally it's about helping the customers take advantage of that technology and transform their businesses and to do that, it requires a lot more than software. And so they're changing, our industry is changing. Steve talked to the point of the stage today that the cost of technology is becoming very low and that therefore the permeation of technology in everything we do is going to be so prevalent. So it's understood and for them, it's more about helping our customers get to that digital age and being able to transform their businesses to cope with the changing technology. >> Are you satisfied with the pace? >> Pace of? >> Of the change, of getting people to the cloud. Do you feel there is, is the momentum there? >> Well we've seen huge growth in our sector. We have completely tipped the balances. I would have said, obviously it's been coming, it's like Salesforce.com and companies who basically do certain applications in the cloud and for us, we're different because we have complete end to end suites in the cloud, mission critical applications. And so our business has grown enormously over the course of the last three years and I think now it's mainstream, if you will. And so we're very pleased and happy. We have a lot of customers who have made, obviously we have over 8,400 customers now already there. And the pace is increasing. And it's just a continuous effort for the customers who haven't gone already, helping them understand what they need to do to get there, and that's what we've been doing in spades for the last couple of years. >> Great, well Pam Murphy, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> We really appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Dave Vallente, we will have more from The Cube's coverage of Inforum 2017 just after this. 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