foreign [Music] my name is Savannah Peterson and I am very excited to be coming to you today from the cube in Palo Alto we're going to be talking about kubecon giving a little preview of the hype and what you might be able to expect in Detroit with the one and only co-founder and CEO of the cube and siliconangle John ferriere John hello how are you today thanks for hosting and doing the preview with me my goodness a pleasure I we got acquainted this time last year how do you think the ecosystem has changed are you excited well first of all I missed kubecon Valencia because I had covid I was so excited to be there this big trip plan and then couldn't make it but so much has gone on I mean we've been at every kubecon the cube was there at the beginning when openstack was still going on kubernetes just started came out of Google we were there having beers with Lou Tucker and a bunch of The Luminaries when it all kind of came together and then watch it year by year progress through and how it's changed the industry and mainly how open source has been really the wave behind it combining with the Linux foundation and then cncf and then open source movement and good kubernetes has been amazing and under it all containers has been the real driver and all this so you know Docker containers Docker was a well-funded company they had to Pivot and were restructured now they're pure open source so containers have gone Supernova on top of that kubernetes and with that's a complete ecosystem of opportunity to create the next operating system in in software development so to me kubecon is at the center of software software 2030 what do you want to call it super cloud it's that it's really action it's not where the old school is it's where the new school is excellent so what has you most excited this year what's the biggest change from this time last year and now well two things I'm looking at this year uh carefully both from an editorial lens and also from a sponsorship lenses where is the funding going on the sponsorships because again a very diverse ecosystem of Builders but also vendors so I'm going to see how that Dynamics going on but also on the software side a lot of white space going on in the stack or in the map if you will you know the run times you've got observability you got a lot of competition maybe projects might be growing some Rising some falling maybe merge together I'm going to see how that but there's a lot of white spaces developing so I'm curious to see what's new on that area and then service meshes is a big deal this year so I'm looking for what's going on so it's been kind of a I won't say cold war but kind of like uh you know where is this going to go and because it's a super important part of of the of the orchestration and managing containers and so be very interested to see how service mesh does istio and other versions out there have been around for a while so that and also the other controversy is the number of stars on GitHub a project may have so sometimes that carries a lot of weight but we're going to look at which ones are rising which ones are falling again um which ones are getting the most votes by the developers vote with their code yeah absolutely well we did definitely miss you down in Los Angeles but it will be great to be in Detroit what has you most excited do you think that we're going to see the number of people in person that we have in the past I know you've seen it since the beginning so I think this year is going to be explosive from that psychology angle because I think it was really weird because La was on they were a bold to make that move we're all there is first conference back it was a lot a lot of like badges don't touch me only handshakes fist pumps but it was at the beginning of the covid second wave right so it was kind of still not yet released where everyone's was not worried about it so I think it's in the past year in the past eight months I mean I've been places with no masks people have no masks Vegas other places so I think it's going to be a year where it will be a lot more people in person because the growth and the opportunities are so big it's going to drive a lot of people in person just like Amazon reinvent those yeah absolutely and as the most important and prominent event in the kubernetes space I think everyone's very excited to to get back together when we think about this space do you think there that anyone's the clear winner yet or do you think it's still a bit of a open territory in terms of the companies and Partnerships I think Red Hat has done a great job and they're you know I think they're going to see how well they can turn this into gold for them because they've positioned themselves very well open shift years ago was kind of waffling I won't say it in a bad way but like but once they got view on containers and kubernetes red has done an exceptional job in how they position their company being bought by ibms can be very interesting to see how that influences change so if Red Hat can stay red hat I think IBM will win I think customers that's one company I like the startups we're seeing companies like platform nine Rafi systems young companies coming out in the kubernetes as a service space because I think whoever can make kubernetes easier because I think that's the hard part right now even though that the show is called kubecon is a lot more than kubernetes I think the container layer what docker's doing has been exceptional that's the real action the question is how does that impact the kubernetes layers so kubernetes is not a done deal yet I think it hasn't really crossed the chasm yet it's certainly popular but not every company is adopting it so we're starting to see that we need to see more adoption of kubernetes seeing that happen it's going to decide who the winners are totally agree with that if you look at the data a lot of companies are and people are excited about kubernetes but they haven't taken the plunge to shifting over their stack or fully embracing it because of that complexity so I'm very curious to see what we learn this week about who those players might be moving forward how does it feel to be in Detroit when was the last time you were here I was there in 2007 was the last time I was in that town so uh we'll see what's like wow yeah but things have changed yeah the lions are good this year they've got great hockey goalies there so you know all right you've heard that sports fans let John know what you're thinking your Sports predictions for this season I love that who do you hope to get to meet while we're at the show I want to meet more end user customers we're gonna have Envoy again on the cube I think Red Hat was going to be a big sponsor this year they've been great um we're looking for end user project most looking for some editorial super cloud like um commentary because the cncf is kind of the developer Tech Community that's powering in my opinion this next wave of software development Cloud native devops is now Cloud native developers devops is kind of going away that's killed I.T in my opinion data and security Ops is the new kind of Ops the new it so it's good to see how devops turns into more of a software engineering meet supercloud so I think you're going to start to see the infrastructure become more programmable it's infrastructure as code so I think if anything I'm more excited to hear more stories about how infrastructure as code is now the new standard so if when that truly happens the super cloud model be kicking into high gear I love that let's you touched on it a little bit right there but I want to dig in a bit since you've been around since the beginning what is it that you appreciate or enjoy so much about the kubernetes community and the people around this I think there are authentic people and I think they're they're building they're also Progressive they're very diverse um they're open and inclusive they try stuff and um they can be critical but they're not jerks about it so when people try something um they're open-minded of a failure so it's a classic startup mentality I think that is embodied throughout the Linux Foundation but CNC in particular has to bridge the entrepreneurial and corporate Vibe so they've done an exceptional job doing that and that's what I like about this money making involved but there's also a lot of development and Innovation that comes out of it so the next big name and startup could come out of this community and that's what I hope to see coming out here is that next brand that no one's heard of that just comes out of nowhere and just takes a big position in the marketplace so that's going to be interesting to see hopefully we have on our stage there yeah that's the goal we're going to interview them all a year from now when we're sitting here again what do you hope to be able to say about this space or this event that we might not be able to say today I think it's going to be more of clarity around um the new modern software development techniques software next gen using AI more faster silicon chips you see Amazon with what they're doing the custom silicon more processing but I think Hardware matters we've been talking a lot about that I think I think it's we're going to shift from what's been innovative and what's changed I think I think if you look at what's been going on in the industry outside of crypto the infrastructure hasn't really changed much except for AWS what they've done so I'm expecting to see more Innovations at the physics level way down in the chips and then that lower end of the stack is going to be dominated by either one of the three clouds probably AWS and then the middle layer is going to be this where the abstraction is around making infrastructure as code really happen I think that's going to be Clarity coming out of this year next year we should have some visibility into the vertical applications and of the AI and machine learning absolutely digging in on that actually even more because I like what you're saying a lot what verticals do you think that kubernetes is going to impact the most looking even further out than say a year I mean I think that hot ones Healthcare fintech are obvious to get the most money they're spending I think they're the ones who are already kind of creating these super cloud models where they're actually changed over their their spending from capex to Opex and they're driving top line revenue as part of that so you're seeing companies that wants customers of the I.T vendors are now becoming the providers that's a big super cloud Trend we see the other verticals are going to be served by a lot of men in Surprise oil and gas you know all the classic versus Healthcare I mentioned that one those are the classic verticals retail is going to I think be massively huge as you get more into the internet of things that's truly internet based you're going to start to see a lot more Edge use cases so Telecom I think it's going to be completely disrupted by new brands so I think once that you see see how that plays out but all verticals are going to be disrupted just a casual statement to say yeah yeah no doubt in my mind that's great I'm personally really excited about the edge applications that are possible here and can't wait to see can't wait to see what happens next I'm curious as to your thoughts how based given your history here and we don't have to say number of years that you've been participating in in Cape Cod but give them your history what's the evolution looked like from that Community perspective when you were all just starting out having that first drink did you anticipate that we would be here with thousands of people in Detroit you know I knew the moment was happening around um 2017-2018 Dan Coney no longer with us he passed away I ran into him randomly in China and it was like what are you doing here he was with a bunch of Docker guys so they were already investing in so I knew that the cncf was a great Steward for this community because they were already doing the work Dan led a great team at that time and then they were they were they were kicking ass and they were just really setting the foundation they dig in they set the architecture perfectly so I knew that that was a moment that was going to be pretty powerful at the early days when we were talking about kubernetes before it even started we were always always talking about if this this could be the tcpip of of cloud then we could have kind of a de facto interoperability and Lou Tucker was working for Cisco at the time and we were called it interclouding inter-networking what that did during the the revolution Cloud yeah the revolution of the client server and PC Revolution was about connectivity and so tcpip was the disruptive enable that created massive amounts of wealth created a lot of companies created a whole generation of companies so I think this next inflection point is kind of happening right now I think kubernetes is one step of this abstraction layer but you start to see companies like snowflake who's built on AWS and then moved to multiple clouds Goldman Sachs Capital One you're going to see insurance companies so we believe that the rise of the super cloud is here that's going to be Cloud 3.0 that's software 3.0 it's software three what do you want to call it it's not yesterday's Cloud lift and shift and run a SAS application it's a true Enterprise digital digital transformation so that's that's kind of the trend that we see riding in now and so you know if you're not on that side of the street you're going to get washed away from that wave so it's going to be interesting to see how how it all plays out so it's fun to watch who's on the wrong side it is very fun I hope you all are listening to this really powerful advice from John he's dropping some serious knowledge bombs on us well holding the back for kubecon because we've got we got all the great guests coming on and that's where all the content comes from I mean the best part of the community is that they're sharing yeah absolutely so just for old time's sake and it's because it's how I met your fabulous team last year Define kubernetes for the audience kubernetes is like what someone said it was a magical Christmas I heard that was a well good explanation with that when I heard that one um you mean the technical definition or like the business definition or maybe both you can give us an interpretive dance if you'd like I mean the simplest way to describe kubernetes is an orchestration layer that orchestrates containers that are containing applications and it's a way to keep things running and runtime assembly of like the of the data so if you've got you're running containers you can containerize applications kubernetes gives you that capability to run applications at scale which feeds into uh the development uh cycle of the pipelining of apps so if you're writing applications and you want to scale up it's a fast way to stand up massive amounts of scale using containers and kubernetes so a variety of other things that are in the in the in the system too so that was pretty good there's a lot more under the hood but that's the oversimplified version I think that's what we were going for I think it's actually I mean it's harder to oversimplify it sometimes in this case it connects it connects well it's the connective tissue between all the container applications yes last question for you John we are here at the cube we're very excited to be headed to Detroit very soon what can people expect from the cube at coupon this year so we'll be broadcasting Wednesday Thursday and Friday we'll be there early I'll be there Monday and Tuesday we'll do our normal kind of hanging around getting some scoop on the on the ground floor you'll see us there Monday and Tuesday probably in the in the lounge too um come up and say hi to us um again we're looking for more stories this year we believe this is the year that you're going to hear a lot more storytelling coming out of this community as people get more proof points so come up to us share your email your your handle give us yours give us your story we'll publish it we think we think this is going to be the year that cloud native developers start showing the signs of the of the rise of the supercloud that's going to come out of this this community so you know if you got something to say you know we're open to share stories so we're here all that speaking of John how can people say hi to you and the team on Twitter at Furrier at siliconangle at thecube thecube.net siliconangle.com LinkedIn Dave vellantis they were open on all channels all right signal Instagram WhatsApp perfect well pick your channel we really hope to hear from you John thank you so much for joining us for this preview session and thank you for tuning in my name is Savannah Peterson here in Palo Alto at thecube Studios looking forward to Detroit we can't wait to hear your thoughts do let us know in the comments and let us know if you're headed to Michigan cheers [Music] thank you

>> We're back at the ARIA Las Vegas. We're covering CrowdStrike's Fal.Con 22. First one since 2019. Dave Vellante and Dave Nicholson on theCUBE. Adam Meyers is here, he is the Senior Vice President of Intelligence at CrowdStrike. Adam, thanks for coming to theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me. >> Interesting times, isn't it? You're very welcome. Senior Vice President of Intelligence, tell us what your role is. >> So I run all of our intelligence offerings. All of our analysts, we have a couple hundred analysts that work at CrowdStrike tracking threat actors. There's 185 threat actors that we track today. We're constantly adding more of them and it requires us to really have that visibility and understand how they operate so that we can inform our other products: our XDR, our Cloud Workload Protections and really integrate all of this around the threat actor. >> So it's that threat hunting capability that CrowdStrike has. That's what you're sort of... >> Well, so think of it this way. When we launched the company 11 years ago yesterday, what we wanted to do was to tell customers, to tell people that, well, you don't have a malware problem, you have an adversary problem. There are humans that are out there conducting these attacks, and if you know who they are what they're up to, how they operate then you're better positioned to defend against them. And so that's really at the core, what CrowdStrike started with and all of our products are powered by intelligence. All of our services are our OverWatch and our Falcon complete, all powered by intelligence because we want to know who the threat actors are and what they're doing so we can stop them. >> So for instance like you can stop known malware. A lot of companies can stop known malware, but you also can stop unknown malware. And I infer that the intelligence is part of that equation, is that right? >> Absolutely. That that's the outcome. That's the output of the intelligence but I could also tell you who these threat actors are, where they're operating out of, show you pictures of some of them, that's the threat intel. We are tracking down to the individual persona in many cases, these various threats whether they be Chinese nation state, Russian threat actors, Iran, North Korea, we track as I said, quite a few of these threats. And over time, we develop a really robust deep knowledge about who they are and how they operate. >> Okay. And we're going to get into some of that, the big four and cyber. But before we do, I want to ask you about the eCrime index stats, the ECX you guys call it a little side joke for all your nerds out there. Maybe you could explain that Adam >> Assembly humor. >> Yeah right, right. So, but, what is that index? You guys, how often do you publish it? What are you learning from that? >> Yeah, so it was modeled off of the Dow Jones industrial average. So if you look at the Dow Jones it's a composite index that was started in the late 1800s. And they took a couple of different companies that were the industrial component of the economy back then, right. Textiles and railroads and coal and steel and things like that. And they use that to approximate the overall health of the economy. So if you take these different stocks together, swizzle 'em together, and figure out some sort of number you could say, look, it's up. The economy's doing good. It's down, not doing so good. So after World War II, everybody was exuberant and positive about the end of the war. The DGI goes up, the oil crisis in the seventies goes down, COVID hits goes up, sorry, goes down. And then everybody realizes that they can use Amazon still and they can still get the things they need goes back up with the eCrime index. We took that approach to say what is the health of the underground economy? When you read about any of these ransomware attacks or data extortion attacks there are criminal groups that are working together in order to get things spammed out or to buy credentials and things like that. And so what the eCrime index does is it takes 24 different observables, right? The price of a ransom, the number of ransom attacks, the fluctuation in cryptocurrency, how much stolen material is being sold for on the underground. And we're constantly computing this number to understand is the eCrime ecosystem healthy? Is it thriving or is it under pressure? And that lets us understand what's going on in the world and kind of contextualize it. Give an example, Microsoft on patch Tuesday releases 56 vulnerabilities. 11 of them are critical. Well guess what? After hack Tuesday. So after patch Tuesday is hack Wednesday. And so all of those 11 vulnerabilities are exploitable. And now you have threat actors that have a whole new array of weapons that they can deploy and bring to bear against their victims after that patch Tuesday. So that's hack Wednesday. Conversely we'll get something like the colonial pipeline. Colonial pipeline attack May of 21, I think it was, comes out and all of the various underground forums where these ransomware operators are doing their business. They freak out because they don't want law enforcement. President Biden is talking about them and he's putting pressure on them. They don't want this ransomware component of what they're doing to bring law enforcement, bring heat on them. So they deplatform them. They kick 'em off. And when they do that, the ransomware stops being as much of a factor at that point in time. And the eCrime index goes down. So we can look at holidays, and right around Thanksgiving, which is coming up pretty soon, it's going to go up because there's so much online commerce with cyber Monday and such, right? You're going to see this increase in online activity; eCrime actors want to take advantage of that. When Christmas comes, they take vacation too; they're going to spend time with their families, so it goes back down and it stays down till around the end of the Russian Orthodox Christmas, which you can probably extrapolate why that is. And then it goes back up. So as it's fluctuating, it gives us the ability to really just start tracking what that economy looks like. >> Realtime indicator of that crypto. >> I mean, you talked about, talked about hack Wednesday, and before that you mentioned, you know, the big four, and I think you said 185 threat actors that you're tracking, is 180, is number 185 on that list? Somebody living in their basement in their mom's basement or are the resources necessary to get on that list? Such that it's like, no, no, no, no. this is very, very organized, large groups of people. Hollywood would have you believe that it's guy with a laptop, hack Wednesday, (Dave Nicholson mimics keyboard clacking noises) and everything done. >> Right. >> Are there individuals who are doing things like that or are these typically very well organized? >> That's a great question. And I think it's an important one to ask and it's both it tends to be more, the bigger groups. There are some one-off ones where it's one or two people. Sometimes they get big. Sometimes they get small. One of the big challenges. Have you heard of ransomware as a service? >> Of course. Oh my God. Any knucklehead can be a ransomwarist. >> Exactly. So we don't track those knuckleheads as much unless they get onto our radar somehow, they're conducting a lot of operations against our customers or something like that. But what we do track is that ransomware as a service platform because the affiliates, the people that are using it they come, they go and, you know, it could be they're only there for a period of time. Sometimes they move between different ransomware services, right? They'll use the one that's most useful for them that that week or that month, they're getting the best rate because it's rev sharing. They get a percentage that platform gets percentage of the ransom. So, you know, they negotiate a better deal. They might move to a different ransomware platform. So that's really hard to track. And it's also, you know, I think more important for us to understand the platform and the technology that is being used than the individual that's doing it. >> Yeah. Makes sense. Alright, let's talk about the big four. China, Iran, North Korea, and Russia. Tell us about, you know, how you monitor these folks. Are there different signatures for each? Can you actually tell, you know based on the hack who's behind it? >> So yeah, it starts off, you know motivation is a huge factor. China conducts espionage, they do it for diplomatic purposes. They do it for military and political purposes. And they do it for economic espionage. All of these things map to known policies that they put out, the Five Year Plan, the Made in China 2025, the Belt and Road Initiative, it's all part of their efforts to become a regional and ultimately a global hegemon. >> They're not stealing nickels and dimes. >> No they're stealing intellectual property. They're stealing trade secrets. They're stealing negotiation points. When there's, you know a high speed rail or something like that. And they use a set of tools and they have a set of behaviors and they have a set of infrastructure and a set of targets that as we look at all of these things together we can derive who they are by motivation and the longer we observe them, the more data we get, the more we can get that attribution. I could tell you that there's X number of Chinese threat groups that we track under Panda, right? And they're associated with the Ministry of State Security. There's a whole other set. That's too associated with the People's Liberation Army Strategic Support Force. So, I mean, these are big operations. They're intelligence agencies that are operating out of China. Iran has a different set of targets. They have a different set of motives. They go after North American and Israeli businesses right now that's kind of their main operation. And they're doing something called hack and lock and leak. With a lock and leak, what they're doing is they're deploying ransomware. They don't care about getting a ransom payment. They're just doing it to disrupt the target. And then they're leaking information that they steal during that operation that brings embarrassment. It brings compliance, regulatory, legal impact for that particular entity. So it's disruptive >> The chaos creators that's.. >> Well, you know I think they're trying to create a they're trying to really impact the legitimacy of some of these targets and the trust that their customers and their partners and people have in them. And that is psychological warfare in a certain way. And it, you know is really part of their broader initiative. Look at some of the other things that they've done they've hacked into like the missile defense system in Israel, and they've turned on the sirens, right? Those are all things that they're doing for a specific purpose, and that's not China, right? Like as you start to look at this stuff, you can start to really understand what they're up to. Russia very much been busy targeting NATO and NATO countries and Ukraine. Obviously the conflict that started in February has been a huge focus for these threat actors. And then as we look at North Korea, totally different. They're doing, there was a major crypto attack today. They're going after these crypto platforms, they're going after DeFi platforms. They're going after all of this stuff that most people don't even understand and they're stealing the crypto currency and they're using it for revenue generation. These nuclear weapons don't pay for themselves, their research and development don't pay for themselves. And so they're using that cyber operation to either steal money or steal intelligence. >> They need the cash. Yeah. >> Yeah. And they also do economic targeting because Kim Jong Un had said back in 2016 that they need to improve the lives of North Koreans. They have this national economic development strategy. And that means that they need, you know, I think only 30% of North Korea has access to reliable power. So having access to clean energy sources and renewable energy sources, that's important to keep the people happy and stop them from rising up against the regime. So that's the type of economic espionage that they're conducting. >> Well, those are the big four. If there were big five or six, I would presume US and some Western European countries would be on there. Do you track, I mean, where United States obviously has you know, people that are capable of this we're out doing our thing, and- >> So I think- >> That defense or offense, where do we sit in this matrix? >> Well, I think the big five would probably include eCrime. We also track India, Pakistan. We track actors out of Columbia, out of Turkey, out of Syria. So there's a whole, you know this problem is getting worse over time. It's proliferating. And I think COVID was also, you know a driver there because so many of these countries couldn't move human assets around because everything was getting locked down. As machine learning and artificial intelligence and all of this makes its way into the cameras at border and transfer points, it's hard to get a human asset through there. And so cyber is a very attractive, cheap and deniable form of espionage and gives them operational capabilities, not, you know and to your question about US and other kind of five I friendly type countries we have not seen them targeting our customers. So we focus on the threats that target our customers. >> Right. >> And so, you know, if we were to find them at a customer environment sure. But you know, when you look at some of the public reporting that's out there, the malware that's associated with them is focused on, you know, real bad people, and it's, it's physically like crypted to their hard drive. So unless you have sensor on, you know, an Iranian or some other laptop that might be target or something like that. >> Well, like Stuxnet did. >> Yeah. >> Right so. >> You won't see it. Right. See, so yeah. >> Well Symantec saw it but way back when right? Back in the day. >> Well, I mean, if you want to go down that route I think it actually came from a company in the region that was doing the IR and they were working with Symantec. >> Oh, okay. So, okay. So it was a local >> Yeah. I think Crisis, I think was the company that first identified it. And then they worked with Symantec. >> It Was, they found it, I guess, a logic controller. I forget what it was. >> It was a long time ago, so I might not have that completely right. >> But it was a seminal moment in the industry. >> Oh. And it was a seminal moment for Iran because you know, that I think caused them to get into cyber operations. Right. When they realized that something like that could happen that bolstered, you know there was a lot of underground hacking forums in Iran. And, you know, after Stuxnet, we started seeing that those hackers were dropping their hacker names and they were starting businesses. They were starting to try to go after government contracts. And they were starting to build training offensive programs, things like that because, you know they realized that this is an opportunity there. >> Yeah. We were talking earlier about this with Shawn and, you know, in the nuclear war, you know the Cold War days, you had the mutually assured destruction. It's not as black and white in the cyber world. Right. Cause as, as Robert Gates told me, you know a few years ago, we have a lot more to lose. So we have to be somewhat, as the United States, careful as to how much of an offensive posture we take. >> Well here's a secret. So I have a background on political science. So mutually assured destruction, I think is a deterrent strategy where you have two kind of two, two entities that like they will destroy each other if they so they're disinclined to go down that route. >> Right. >> With cyber I really don't like that mutually assured destruction >> That doesn't fit right. >> I think it's deterrents by denial. Right? So raising the cost, if they were to conduct a cyber operation, raising that cost that they don't want to do it, they don't want to incur the impact of that. Right. And think about this in terms of a lot of people are asking about would China invade Taiwan. And so as you look at the cost that that would have on the Chinese military, the POA, the POA Navy et cetera, you know, that's that deterrents by denial, trying to, trying to make the costs so high that they don't want to do it. And I think that's a better fit for cyber to try to figure out how can we raise the cost to the adversary if they operate against our customers against our enterprises and that they'll go someplace else and do something else. >> Well, that's a retaliatory strike, isn't it? I mean, is that what you're saying? >> No, definitely not. >> It's more of reducing their return on investment essentially. >> Yeah. >> And incenting them- disincening them to do X and sending them off somewhere else. >> Right. And threat actors, whether they be criminals or nation states, you know, Bruce Lee had this great quote that was "be like water", right? Like take the path of least resistance, like water will. Threat actors do that too. So, I mean, unless you're super high value target that they absolutely have to get into by any means necessary, then if you become too hard of a target, they're going to move on to somebody that's a little easier. >> Makes sense. Awesome. Really appreciate your, I could, we'd love to have you back. >> Anytime. >> Go deeper. Adam Myers. We're here at Fal.Con 22, Dave Vellante, Dave Nicholson. We'll be right back right after this short break. (bouncy music plays)

>>Bye from San Francisco. It's the cube covering RSA conference, 2020 San Francisco brought to you by Silicon angle media. >>Hey, welcome back. Everyone's keeps coverage here in San Francisco at the Moscone center for RSA conference 2020 I'm John, your host, as cybersecurity goes to the next generation as the new cloud scale, cyber threats are out there, the real impact a company's business and society will be determined by the industry. This technology and the people that a cube alumni here, caramel Jaffer, SVP, senior vice president of strategy and corporate development for iron net. Welcome back. Thanks to Shawn. Good to be here. Thanks for having so iron net FC general Keith Alexander and you got to know new CEO of there. Phil Welsh scaler and duo knows how to scale up a company. He's right. Iron is doing really well. The iron dome, the vision of collaboration and signaling. Congratulations on your success. What's a quick update? >> Well look, I mean, you know, we have now built the capability to share information across multiple companies, multiple industries with the government in real time at machine speed. >>Really bringing people together, not just creating collected security or clip to defense, but also collaborating real time to defend one another. So you're able to divide and conquer Goliath, the enemy the same way they come after you and beat them at their own game. >> So this is the classic case of offense defense. Most corporations are playing defense, whack-a-mole, redundant, not a lot of efficiencies, a lot of burnout. Exactly. Not a lot of collaboration, but everyone's talking about the who the attackers are and collaborating like a team. Right? And you guys talk about this mission. Exactly. This is really the new way to do it. It has, the only way it works, >> it is. And you know, you see kids doing it out there when they're playing Fortnite, right? They're collaborating in real time across networks, uh, to, you know, to play a game, right? You can imagine that same construct when it comes to cyber defense, right? >>There's no reason why one big company, a second big company in a small company can't work together to identify all the threats, see that common threat landscape, and then take action on it. Trusting one another to take down the pieces they have folk to focus on and ultimately winning the battle. There's no other way a single company is gonna be able defend itself against a huge decency that has virtually unlimited resources and virtually unlimited human capital. And you've got to come together, defend across multiple industries, uh, collectively and collaboratively. >> Do you mean, we talked about this last time and I want to revisit this and I think it's super important. I think it's the most important story that's not really being talked about in the industry. And that is that we were talking last time about the government protects businesses. If someone dropped troops on the ground in your neighborhood, the government would protect you digitally. >>That's not happening. So there's really no protection for businesses. Do they build their own militia? Do they build their own army? Who was going to, who's going to be their heat shield? So this is a big conversation and a big, it brings a question. The role of the government. We're going to need a digital air force. We're going to need a digital army, Navy, Navy seals. We need to have that force, and this has to be a policy issue, but in the short term, businesses and individuals are sitting out there being attacked by sophisticated mission-based teams of hackers and nation States, right? Either camouflaging or hiding, but attacking still. This is a huge issue. What's going on? Are people talking about this in D C well, >> John, look not enough. People are talking about it, right? And forget DC. We need to be talking about here, out here in the Silicon Valley with all these companies here at the RSA floor and bring up the things you're bringing up because this is a real problem we're facing as a nation. >>The Russians aren't coming after one company, one state. They're coming after our entire election infrastructure. They're coming after us as a nation. The Chinese maybe come after one company at a time, but their goal is to take our electoral properties, a nation, repurpose it back home. And when the economic game, right, the Iranians, the North Koreans, they're not focused on individual actors, but they are coming after individual actors. We can't defend against those things. One man, one woman, one company on an Island, one, one agency, one state. We've got to come together collectively, right? Work state with other States, right? If we can defend against the Russians, California might be really good at it. Rhode Island, small States can be real hard, defends against the Russians, but if California, Rhode Island come together, here's the threats. I see. Here's what it's. You see share information, that's great. Then we collaborate on the defense and work together. >>You take these threats, I'll take those threats and now we're working as a team, like you said earlier, like those kids do when they're playing fortnight and now we're changing the game. Now we're really fighting the real fight. >> You know, when I hear general Keith Alexander talking about his vision with iron net and what you guys are doing, I'm inspired because it's simply put, we have a mission to protect our nation, our people, and a good businesses, and he puts it into kind of military, military terms, but in reality, it's a simple concept. Yeah, we're being attacked, defend and attack back. Just basic stuff. But to make it work as the sharing. So I got to ask you, I'm first of all, I love the, I love what he has, his vision. I love what you guys are doing. How real are we? What's the progression? >>Where are we on the progress bar of that vision? Well, you know, a lot's changed to the last year and a half alone, right? The threats gotten a lot, a lot more real to everybody, right? Used to be the industry would say to us, yeah, we want to share with the government, but we want something back for, right. We want them to show us some signal to today. Industry is like, look, the Chinese are crushing us out there, right? We can beat them at a, at some level, but we really need the governor to go do its job too. So we'll give you the information we have on, on an anonymized basis. You do your thing. We're going to keep defending ourselves and if you can give us something back, that's great. So we've now stood up in real time of DHS. We're sharing with them huge amounts of data about what we're seeing across six of the top 10 energy companies, some of the biggest banks, some of the biggest healthcare companies in the country. >>Right? In real time with DHS and more to come on that more to come with other government agencies and more to come with some our partners across the globe, right? Partners like those in Japan, Singapore, Eastern Europe, right? Our allies in the middle East, they're all the four lenses threat. We can bring their better capability. They can help us see what's coming at us in the future because as those enemies out there testing the weapons in those local areas. I want to get your thoughts on the capital markets because obviously financing is critical and you're seeing successful venture capital formulas like forge point really specialized funds on cyber but not classic industry formation sectors. Like it's not just security industry are taking a much more broader view because there's a policy implication is that organizational behavior, this technology up and down the stack. So it's a much broad investment thesis. >>What's your view of that? Because as you do, you see that as a formula and if so, what is this new aperture or this new lens of investing to be successful in funding? Companies will look, it's really important what companies like forge point are doing. Venture capital funds, right? Don Dixon, Alberta Pez will land. They're really innovating here. They've created a largest cybersecurity focused fund. They just closed the recently in the world, right? And so they really focus on this industry. Partners like, Kleiner Perkins, Ted Schlein, Andrea are doing really great work in this area. Also really important capital formation, right? And let's not forget other funds. Ron Gula, right? The founder of tenable started his own fund out there in DC, in the DMV area. There's a lot of innovation happening this country and the funding on it's critical. Now look, the reality is the easy money's not going to be here forever, right? >>It's the question is what comes when that inevitable step back. We don't. Nobody likes to talk about it. I said the guy who who bets on the other side of the craps game in Vegas, right? You don't wanna be that guy, but let's be real. I mean that day will eventually come. And the question is how do you bring some of these things together, right? Bring these various pieces together to really create long term strategies, right? And that's I think what's really innovative about what Don and Alberto are doing is they're building portfolio companies across a range of areas to create sort of an end to end capability, right? Andrea is doing things like that. Ted's doing stuff like that. It's a, that's really innovation. The VC market, right? And we're seeing increased collaboration VC to PE. It's looking a lot more similar, right? And now we're seeing innovative vehicles like stacks that are taking some of these public sort of the reverse manner, right? >>There's a lot of interests. I've had to be there with Hank Thomas, the guys chief cyber wrenches. So a lot of really cool stuff going on in the financing world. Opportunities for young, smart entrepreneurs to really move out in this field and to do it now. And money's still silver. All that hasn't come as innovation on the capital market side, which is awesome. Let's talk about the ecosystem in every single market sector that I've been over, my 30 year career has been about a successful entrepreneurship check, capital two formation of partnerships. Okay. You're on the iron net, front lines here. As part of that ecosystem, how do you see the ecosystem formula developing? Is it the same kind of model? Is it a little bit different? What's your vision of the ecosystem? Look, I mean partnerships channel, it's critical to every cyber security company. You can't scale on your own. >>You've got to do it through others, right? I was at a CrowdStrike event the other day. 91% of the revenue comes from the channel. That's an amazing number. You think about that, right? It's you look at who we're trying to talk about partnering with. We're talking about some of the big cloud players. Amazon, Microsoft, right? Google, right on the, on the vendor side. Pardon me? Splunk crashes, so these big players, right? We want to build with them, right? We want to work with them because there's a story to tell here, right? When we were together, the AECOS through self is defendant stronger. There's no, there's no anonymity here, right? It's all we bring a specialty, you bring specialty, you work together, you run out and go get the go get the business and make companies safer. At the end of the day, it's all about protecting the ecosystem. What about the big cloud player? >>Cause he goes two big mega trends. Obviously cloud computing and scale, right? Multi-cloud on the horizon, hybrids, kind of the bridge between single public cloud and multi-cloud and then AI you've got the biggies are generally will be multiple generations of innovation and value creation. What's your vision on the impact of the big waves that are coming? Well, look, I mean cloud computing is a rate change the world right? Today you can deploy capability and have a supercomputer in your fingertips in in minutes, right? You can also secure that in minutes because you can update it in real time. As the machine is functioning, you have a problem, take it down, throw up a new virtual machine. These are amazing innovations that are creating more and more capability out there in industry. It's game changing. We're happy, we're glad to be part of that and we ought to be helping defend that new amazing ecosystem. >>Partnering with companies like Microsoft. They didn't AWS did, you know, you know, I'm really impressed with your technical acumen. You've got a good grasp of the industry, but also, uh, you have really strong on the societal impact policy formulation side of government and business. So I want to get your thoughts for the young kids out there that are going to school, trying to make sense of the chaos that's going on in the world, whether it's DC political theater or the tech theater, big tech and in general, all of the things with coronavirus, all this stuff going on. It's a, it's a pretty crazy time, but a lot of work has to start getting done that are new problems. Yeah. What is your advice as someone who's been through the multiple waves to the young kids who have to figure out what half fatigue, what problems are out there, what things can people get their arms around to work on, to specialize in? >>What's your, what's your thoughts and expertise on that? Well, John, thanks for the question. What I really like about that question is is we're talking about what the future looks like and here's what I think the future looks like. It's all about taking risks. Tell a lot of these young kids out there today, they're worried about how the world looks right? Will America still be strong? Can we, can we get through this hard time we're going through in DC with the world challenges and what I can say is this country has never been stronger. We may have our own troubles internally, but we are risk takers and we always win. No matter how hard it gets them out of how bad it gets, right? Risk taking a study that's building the American blood. It's our founders came here taking a risk, leaving Eagle to come here and we've succeeded the last 200 years. >>There is no question in my mind that trend will continue. So the young people out there, I don't know what the future has to hold. I don't know if the new tape I was going to be, but you're going to invent it. And if you don't take the risks, we're not succeed as a nation. And that's what I think is key. You know, most people worry that if they take too many risks, they might not succeed. Right? But the reality is most people you see around at this convention, they all took risks to be here. And even when they had trouble, they got up, they dust themselves off and they won. And I believe that everybody in this country, that's what's amazing about the station is we have this opportunity to, to try, if we fail to get up again and succeed. So fail fast, fail often, and crush it. >>You know, some of the best innovations have come from times where you had the cold war, you had, um, you had times where, you know, the hippie revolution spawn the computer. So you, so you have the culture of America, which is not about regulation and stunting growth. You had risk-taking, you had entrepreneurship, but yet enough freedom for business to operate, to solve new challenges, accurate. And to me the biggest imperative in my mind is this next generation has to solve a lot of those new questions. What side of the street is the self driving cars go on? I see bike lanes in San Francisco, more congestion, more more cry. All this stuff's going on. AI could be a great enabler for that. Cyber security, a direct threat to our country and global geopolitical landscape. These are big problems. State and local governments, they're not really tech savvy. They don't really have a lot ID. >>So what do they do? How do they serve their, their constituents? You know, look John, these are really important and hard questions, but we know what has made technology so successful in America? What's made it large, successful is the governor state out of the way, right? Industry and innovators have had a chance to work together and do stuff and change the world, right? You look at California, you know, one of the reasons California is so successful and Silicon Valley is so dynamic. You can move between jobs and we don't enforce non-compete agreements, right? Because you can switch jobs and you can go to that next higher value target, right? That shows the value of, you know, innovation, creating innovation. Now there's a real tendency to say, when we're faced with challenges, well, the government has to step in and solve that problem, right? The Silicon Valley and what California's done, what technology's done is a story about the government stayed out and let innovators innovate, and that's a real opportunity for this nation. >>We've got to keep on down that path, even when it seemed like the easier answer is, come on in DC, come on in Sacramento, fix this problem for us. We have demonstrated as a country that Americans and individual are good at solve these problems. We should allow them to do that and innovate. Yeah. One of my passions is to kind of use technology and media to end communities to get to the truth faster. A lot of, um, access to smart minds out there, but young minds, young minds, uh, old minds, young minds though. It's all there. You gotta get the data out and that's going to be a big thing. That's the, one of the things that's changing is the dark arts of smear campaigns. The story of Bloomberg today, Oracle reveals funding for dark money, group biting, big tech internet accountability projects. Um, and so the classic astroturfing get the Jedi contract, Google WASU with Java. >>So articles in the middle of all this, but using them as an illustrative point. The lawyers seem to be running the kingdom right now. I know you're an attorney, so I'm recovering, recovering. I don't want to be offensive, but entrepreneurship cannot be stifled by regulation. Sarbanes Oxley slowed down a lot of the IPO shifts to the latest stage capital. So regulation, nest and every good thing. But also there's some of these little tactics out in the shadows are going to be revealed. What's the new way to get this straightened out in your mind? We'll look, in my view, the best solution for problematic speech or pragmatic people is more speech, right? Let's shine a light on it, right? If there are people doing shady stuff, let's talk about it's an outfit. Let's have it out in the open. Let's fight it out. At the end of the day, what America's really about is smart ideas. >>Winning. It's a, let's get the ideas out there. You know, we spent a lot of time, right now we're under attack by the Russians when it comes to our elections, right? We spent a lot of time harping at one another, one party versus another party. The president versus that person. This person who tells committee for zap person who tells committee. It's crazy when the real threat is from the outside. We need to get past all that noise, right? And really get to the next thing which is we're fighting a foreign entity on this front. We need to face that enemy down and stop killing each other with this nonsense and turn the lights on. I'm a big believer of if something can be exposed, you can talk about it. Why is it happening exactly right. This consequences with that reputation, et cetera. You got it. >>Thanks for coming on the queue. Really appreciate your insight. Um, I want to just ask you one final question cause you look at, look at the industry right now. What is the most important story that people are talking about and what is the most important story that people should be talking about? Yeah. Well look, I think the one story that's out there a lot, right, is what's going on in our politics, what's going on in our elections. Um, you know, Chris Krebs at DHS has been out here this week talking a lot about the threat that our elections face and the importance about States working with one another and States working with the federal government to defend the nation when it comes to these elections in November. Right? We need to get ahead of that. Right? The reality is it's been four years since 2016 we need to do more. That's a key issue going forward. What are the Iranians North Koreans think about next? They haven't hit us recently. We know what's coming. We got to get ahead of that. I'm going to come again at a nation, depending on staff threat to your meal. Great to have you on the QSO is great insight. Thanks for coming on sharing your perspective. I'm John furrier here at RSA in San Francisco for the cube coverage. Thanks for watching.

>> Live from Washington, DC, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Public Sector Summit. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of the AWS Public Sector Summit, here in our nation's capital. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, co-hosting with John Furrier. We have two guests for this segment, we have George Gagne, he is the Chief Information Officer at Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency. Welcome, George. And we have Christopher McDermott, who is the CDO of the POW/MIA Accounting Agency. Welcome, Chris. >> Thank you. >> Thank you both so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you. >> So, I want to start with you George, why don't you tell our viewers a little bit about the POW/MIA Accounting Agency. >> Sure, so the mission has been around for decades actually. In 2015, Secretary of Defense, Hagel, looked at the accounting community as a whole and for efficiency gains made decision to consolidate some of the accounting community into a single organization. And they took the former JPAC, which was a direct reporting unit to PACOM out of Hawaii, which was the operational arm of the accounting community, responsible for research, investigation, recovery and identification. They took that organization, they looked at the policy portion of the organization, which is here in Crystal City, DPMO and then they took another part of the organization, our Life Sciences Support Equipment laboratory in Dayton, Ohio, and consolidated that to make the defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency, Under the Office of Secretary Defense for Policy. So that was step one. Our mission is the fullest possible accounting of missing U.S. personnel to their families and to our nation. That's our mission, we have approximately 82,000 Americans missing from our past conflicts, our service members from World War II, Korea War, Korea, Vietnam and the Cold War. When you look at the demographics of that, we have approximately 1,600 still missing from the Vietnam conflict. We have just over a 100 still missing from the Cold War conflict. We have approximately 7,700 still missing from the Korean War and the remainder of are from World War II. So, you know, one of the challenges when our organization was first formed, was we had three different organizations all had different reporting chains, they had their own cultures, disparate cultures, disparate systems, disparate processes, and step one of that was to get everybody on the same backbone and the same network. Step two to that, was to look at all those on-prem legacy systems that we had across our environment and look at the consolidation of that. And because our organization is so geographically dispersed, I just mentioned three, we also have a laboratory in Offutt, Nebraska. We have detachments in Southeast Asia, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, and we have a detachment in Germany. And we're highly mobile. We conduct about, this year we're planned to do 84 missions around the world, 34 countries. And those missions last 30 to 45 day increments. So highly mobile, very globally diverse organization. So when we looked at that environment obviously we knew the first step after we got everybody on one network was to look to cloud architectures and models in order to be able to communicate, coordinate, and collaborate, so we developed a case management system that consist of a business intelligence software along with some enterprise content software coupled with some forensics software for our laboratory staff that make up what we call our case management system that cloud hosted. >> So business challenges, the consolidation, the reset or set-up for the mission, but then the data types, it's a different kind of data problem to work, to achieve the outcomes you're looking for. Christopher, talk about that dynamic because, >> Sure. >> You know, there are historical different types of data. >> That's right. And a lot of our data started as IBM punchcards or it started from, you know, paper files. When I started the work, we were still looking things up on microfiche and microfilm, so we've been working on an aggressive program to get all that kind of data digitized, but then we have to make it accessible. And we had, you know as George was saying, multiple different organizations doing similar work. So you had a lot of duplication of the same information, but kept in different structures, searchable in different pathways. So we have to bring all of that together and make and make it accessible, so that the government can all be on the same page. Because again, as George said, there's a large number of cases that we potentially can work on, but we have to be able to triage that down to the ones that have the best opportunity for us to use our current methods to solve. So rather than look for all 82,000 at once, we want to be able to navigate through that data and find the cases that have the most likelihood of success. >> So where do you even begin? What's the data that you're looking at? What have you seen has had the best indicators for success, of finding those people who are prisoners of war or missing in action? >> Well, you know, for some degrees as George was saying, our missions has been going on for decades. So, you know, a lot of the files that we're working from today were created at the time of the incidents. For the Vietnam cases, we have a lot of continuity. So we're still working on the leads that the strongest out of that set. And we still send multiple teams a year into Vietnam and Laos, Cambodia. And that's where, you know, you try to build upon the previous investigations, but that's also where if those investigations were done in the '70s or the '80s we have to then surface what's actionable out of that information, which pathways have we trod that didn't pay off. So a lot of it is, What can we reanalyze today? What new techniques can we bring? Can we bring in, you know, remote sensing data? Can we bring GIS applications to analyze where's the best scenario for resolving these cases after all this time? >> I mean, it's interesting one of the things we hear from the Amazon, we've done so many interviews with Amazon executives, we've kind of know their messaging. So here's one of them, "Eliminate the undifferentiated heavy lifting." You hear that a lot right. So there might be a lot of that here and then Teresa had a slide up today talking about COBOL and mainframe, talk about punch cards >> Absolutely. >> So you have a lot of data that's different types older data. So it's a true digitization project that you got to enable as well as other complexity. >> Absolutely, when the agency was formed in 2015 we really begin the process of an information modernization effort across the organization. Because like I said, these were legacy on-prem systems that were their systems' of record that had specific ways and didn't really have the ability to share the data, collaborate, coordinate, and communicate. So, it was a heavy lift across the board getting everyone on one backbone. But then going through an agency information modernization evolution, if you will, that we're still working our way through, because we're so mobilely diversified as well, our field communications capability and reach back and into the cloud and being able to access that data from geographical locations around the world, whether it's in the Himalayas, whether it's in Vietnam, whether it's in Papua New Guinea, wherever we may be. Not just our fixed locations. >> George and Christopher, if you each could comment for our audience, I would love to get this on record as you guys are really doing a great modernization project. Talk about, if you each could talk about key learnings and it could be from scar tissue. It could be from pain and suffering to an epiphany or some breakthrough. What was some of the key learnings as you when through the modernization? Could you share some from a CIO perspective and from a CDO perspective? >> Well, I'll give you a couple takeaways of what I thought I think we did well and some areas I thought that we could have done better. And for us as we looked at building our case management system, I think step one of defining our problem statement, it was years in planning before we actually took steps to actually start building out our infrastructure in the Amazon Cloud, or our applications. But building and defining that problem statement, we took some time to really take a look at that, because of the different in cultures from the disparate organizations and our processes and so on and so forth. Defining that problem statement was critical to our success and moving forward. I'd say one of the areas that I say that we could have done better is probably associated with communication and stakeholder buy-in. Because we are so geographically dispersed and highly mobile, getting the word out to everybody and all those geographically locations and all those time zones with our workforce that's out in the field a lot at 30 to 45 days at a time, three or four missions a year, sometimes more. It certainly made it difficult to get part of that get that messaging out with some of that stakeholder buy-in. And I think probably moving forward and we still deal regarding challenges is data hygiene. And that's for us, something else we did really well was we established this CDO role within our organization, because it's no longer about the systems that are used to process and store the data. It's really about the data. And who better to know the data but our data owners, not custodians and our chief data officer and our data governance council that was established. >> Christopher you're learnings, takeaways? >> What we're trying to build upon is, you define your problem statement, but the pathway there is you have to get results in front of the end users. You have get them to the people who are doing the work, so you can keep guiding it toward the solution actually meets all the needs, as well as build something that can innovate continuously over time. Because the technology space is changing so quickly and dynamically that the more we can surface our problem set, the more help we can to help find ways to navigate through that. >> So one of the things you said is that you're using data to look at the past. Whereas, so many of the guests we're talking today and so many of the people here at this summit are talking about using data to predict the future. Are you able to look your data sets from the past and then also sort of say, And then this is how we can prevent more POW. Are you using, are you thinking at all, are you looking at the future at all with you data? >> I mean, certainly especially from our laboratory science perspective, we have have probably the most advanced human identification capability in the world. >> Right. >> And recovery. And so all of those lessons really go a long ways to what what information needs to be accessible and actionable for us to be able to, recover individuals in those circumstances and make those identifications as quickly as possible. At the same time the cases that we're working on are the hardest ones. >> Right. >> The ones that are still left. But each success that we have teaches us something that can then be applied going forward. >> What is the human side of your job? Because here you are, these two wonky data number crunchers and yet, you are these are people who died fighting for their country. How do you manage those two, really two important parts of your job and how do you think about that? >> Yeah, I will say that it does amp up the emotional quotient of our agency and everybody really feels passionately about all the work that they do. About 10 times a year our agency meets with family members of the missing at different locations around the country. And those are really powerful reminders of why we're doing this. And you do get a lot of gratitude, but at the same time each case that's waiting still that's the one that matters to them. And you see that in the passion our agency brings to the data questions and quickly they want us to progress. It's never fast enough. There's always another case to pursue. So that definitely adds a lot to it, but it is very meaningful when we can help tell that story. And even for a case where we may never have the answers, being able to say, "This is what the government knows about your case and these are efforts that have been undertaken to this point." >> The fact there's an effort going on is really a wonderful thing for everybody involved. Good outcomes coming out from that. But interesting angle as a techy, IT, former IT techy back in the day in the '80s, '90s, I can't help but marvel at your perspective on your project because you're historians in a way too. You've got type punch cards, you know you got, I never used punch cards. >> Put them in a museum. >> I was the first generation post punch cards, but you have a historical view of IT state of the art at the time of the data you're working with. You have to make that data actionable in an outcome scenario workload work-stream for today. >> Yeah, another example we have is we're reclaiming chest X-rays that they did for induction when guys were which would screen for tuberculosis when they came into service. We're able to use those X-rays now for comparison with the remains that are recovered from the field. >> So you guys are really digging into history of IT. >> Yeah. >> So I'd love to get your perspective. To me, I marvel and I've always been critical of Washington's slowness with respect to cloud, but seeing you catch up now with the tailwinds here with cloud and Amazon and now Microsoft coming in with AI. You kind of see the visibility that leads to value. As you look back at the industry of federal, state, and local governments in public over the years, what's your view of the current state of union of modernization, because it seems to be a renaissance? >> Yeah, I would say the analogy I would give you it's same as that of the industrial revolutions went through in the early 20th century, but it's more about the technology revolution that we're going through now. That's how I'd probably characterize it. If I were to look back and tell my children's children about, hey, the advent of technology and that progression of where we're at. Cloud architecture certainly take down geographical barriers that before were problems for us. Now we're able to overcome those. We can't overcome the timezone barriers, but certainly the geographical barriers of separation of an organization with cloud computing has certainly changed. >> Do you see your peers within the government sector, other agencies, kind of catching wind of this going, Wow, I could really change the game. And will it be a step function into your kind of mind as you kind of have to project kind of forward where we are. Is it going to a small improvement, a step function? What do you guys see? What's the sentiment around town? >> I'm from Hawaii, so Chris probably has a better perspective of that with some of our sister organizations here in town. But, I would say there's more and more organizations that are adopting cloud architectures. It's my understanding very few organizations now are co-located in one facility and one location, right. Take a look at telework today, cost of doing business, remote accessibility regardless of where you're at. So, I'd say it's a force multiplier by far for any line of business, whether it's public sector, federal government or whatever. It's certainly enhanced our capabilities and it's a force multiplier for us. >> And I think that's where the expectation increasingly is that the data should be available and I should be able to act on it wherever I am whenever the the opportunity arises. And that's where the more we can democratize our ability to get that data out to our partners to our teams in the field, the faster those answers can come through. And the faster we can make decisions based upon the information we have, not just the process that we follow. >> And it feeds the creativity and the work product of the actors involved. Getting the data out there versus hoarding it, wall guarding it, asylumming it. >> Right, yeah. You know, becoming the lone expert on this sack of paper in the filing cabinet, doesn't have as much power as getting that data accessible to a much broader squad and everyone can contribute. >> We're doing our part. >> That's right, it's open sourcing it right here. >> To your point, death by PowerPoint. I'm sure you've heard that before. Well business intelligence software now by the click of a button reduces the level of effort for man-power and resources to put together slide decks. Where in business intelligence software can reach out to those structured data platforms and pull out the data that you want at the click of a button and build those presentations for you on the fly. Think about, I mean, if that's our force multiplier in advances in technology of. I think the biggest thing is we understand as humans how to exploit and leverage the technologies and the capabilities. Because I still don't think we fully grasp the potential of technology and how it can be leveraged to empower us. >> That's great insight and really respect what you guys do. Love your mission. Thanks for sharing. >> Yeah, thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you for having us. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Ferrer. We will have much more coming up tomorrow on the AWS Public Sector Summit here in Washington, DC. (upbeat music)

>> Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Red Hat President Products and Technologies. Paul Cormier. Boring. >> Welcome back to Boston. Welcome back. And welcome back after a great night last night of our opening with with Jim and talking to certainly saw ten Jenny and and especially our customers. It was so great last night to hear our customers in how they set their their goals and how they met their goals. All possible because certainly with a little help from red hat, but all possible because of because of open source. And, you know, sometimes we have to all due that has set goals. And I'm going to talk this morning about what we as a company and with community, have set for our goals along the way. And sometimes you have to do that. You know, audacious goals. It can really change the perception of what's even possible. And, you know, if I look back, I can't think of anything, at least in my lifetime, that's more important. Or such a big golden John F. Kennedy setting the gold to the American people to go to the moon. I believe it or not, I was really, really only three years old when he said that, honestly. But as I grew up, I remember the passion around the whole country and the energy to make that goal a reality. So let's sort of talk about in compare and contrast, a little bit of where we are technically at that time, you know, tto win and to beat and winning the space race and even get into the space race. There was some really big technical challenges along the way. I mean, believe it or not. Not that long ago. But even But back then, math Malik mathematical calculations were being shifted from from brilliant people who we trusted, and you could look in the eye to A to a computer that was programmed with the results that were mostly printed out. This this is a time where the potential of computers was just really coming on the scene and, at the time, the space race at the time of space race it. It revolved around an IBM seventy ninety, which was one of the first transistor based computers. It could perform mathematical calculations faster than even the most brilliant mathematicians. But just like today, this also came with many, many challenges And while we had the goal of in the beginning of the technique and the technology to accomplish it, we needed people so dedicated to that goal that they would risk everything. And while it may seem commonplace to us today to trust, put our trust in machines, that wasn't the case. Back in nineteen sixty nine, the seven individuals that made up the Mercury Space crew were putting their their lives in the hands of those first computers. But on Sunday, July twentieth, nineteen sixty nine, these things all came together. The goal, the technology in the team and a human being walked on the moon. You know, if this was possible fifty years ago, just think about what Khun B. Accomplished today, where technology is part of our everyday lives. And with technology advances at an ever increasing rate, it's hard to comprehend the potential that sitting right at our fingertips every single day, everything you know about computing is continuing to change. Today, let's look a bit it back. A computing In nineteen sixty nine, the IBM seventy ninety could process one hundred thousand floating point operations per second, today's Xbox one that sitting in most of your living rooms probably can process six trillion flops. That's sixty million times more powerful than the original seventy ninety that helped put a human being on the moon. And at the same time that computing was, that was drastically changed. That this computing has drastically changed. So have the boundaries of where that computing sits and where it's been where it lives. At the time of the Apollo launch, the computing power was often a single machine. Then it moved to a single data center, and over time that grew to multiple data centers. Then with cloud, it extended all the way out to data centers that you didn't even own or have control of. But but computing now reaches far beyond any data center. This is also referred to as the edge. You hear a lot about that. The Apollo's, the Apollo's version of the Edge was the guidance system, a two megahertz computer that weighed seventy pounds embedded in the capsule. Today, today the edge is right here on my wrist. This apple watch weighs just a couple of ounces, and it's ten ten thousand times more powerful than that seventy ninety back in nineteen sixty nine But even more impactful than computing advances, combined with the pervasive availability of it, are the changes and who in what controls those that similar to social changes that have happened along the way. Shifting from mathematicians to computers, we're now facing the same type of changes with regards to operational control of our computing power. In its first forms. Operational control was your team, your team within your control? In some cases, a single person managed everything. But as complexity grows, our team's expanded, just like in the just like in the computing boundaries, system integrators and public cloud providers have become an extension of our team. But at the end of the day, it's still people that are still making all the decisions going forward with the progress of things like a I and software defined everything. It's quite likely that machines will be managing machines, and in many cases that's already happening today. But while the technology at our finger tips today is so impressive, the pace of changing complexity of the problems we aspire to solve our equally hard to comprehend and they are all intertwined with one another learning from each other, growing together faster and faster. We are tackling problems today on a global scale with unsinkable complexity beyond anyone beyond what any one single company or even one single country Khun solve alone. This is why open source is so important. This is why open source is so needed today in software. This is why open sources so needed today, even in the world, to solve other types of complex problems. And this is why open source has become the dominant development model which is driving the technology direction. Today is to bring two brother to bring together the best innovation from every corner of the planet. Toe fundamentally change how we solve problems. This approach and access the innovation is what has enabled open source To tackle The challenge is big challenges, like creating the hybrid cloud like building a truly open hybrid cloud. But even today it's really difficult to bridge the gap of the innovation. It's available in all in all of our fingertips by open source development, while providing the production level capabilities that are needed to really dip, ploy this in the enterprise and solve RIA world business problems. Red Hat has been committed to open source from the very, very beginning and bringing it to solve enterprise class problems for the last seventeen plus years. But when we built that model to bring open source to the enterprise, we absolutely knew we couldn't do it halfway tow harness the innovation. We had to fully embrace the model. We made a decision very early on. Give everything back and we live by that every single day. We didn't do crazy crazy things like you hear so many do out there. All this is open corps or everything below. The line is open and everything above the line is closed. We didn't do that, and we gave everything back Everything we learned in the process of becoming an enterprise class technology company. We gave it all of that back to the community to make better and better software. This is how it works. And we've seen the results of that. We've all seen the results of that and it could only have been possible within open source development model we've been building on the foundation of open source is most successful Project Lennox in the architecture of the future hybrid and bringing them to the Enterprise. This is what made Red Hat, the company that we are today and red hats journey. But we also had the set goals, and and many of them seemed insert insurmountable at the time, the first of which was making Lennox the Enterprise standard. And while this is so accepted today, let's take a look at what it took to get there. Our first launch into the Enterprise was rail two dot one. Yes, I know we two dot one, but we knew we couldn't release a one dato product. We knew that and and we didn't. But >> we didn't want to >> allow any reason why anyone of any customer anyone shouldn't should look past rail to solve their problems as an option. Back then, we had to fight every single flavor of Unix in every single account. But we were lucky to have a few initial partners and Big Eyes v partners that supported Rehl out of the gate. But while we had the determination, we knew we also had gaps in order to deliver on our on our priorities. In the early days of rail, I remember going to ask one of our engineers for a past rehl build because we were having a customer issue on it on an older release. And then I watched in horror as he rifled through his desk through a mess of CDs and magically came up and said, I found it here It is told me not to worry that the build this was he thinks this was the bill. This was the right one, and at that point I knew that despite the promise of Lennox, we had a lot of work ahead of us. The not only convinced the world that Lennox was secure, stable, an enterprise ready, but also to make that a reality. But we did. And today this is our reality. It's all of our reality. From the Enterprise Data Center standard to the fastest computers on the planet, Red Hat Enterprise, Lennox has continually risen to the challenge and has become the core foundation that many mission critical customers run and bet their business on. And an even bigger today Lennox is the foundation of which practically every single technology initiative is built upon. Lennox is not only standard toe build on today, it's the standard for innovation that builds around it. That's the innovation that's driving the future as well. We started our story with rail two dot one, and here we are today, seventeen years later, announcing rally as we did as we did last night. It's specifically designed for applications to run across the open hybrid. Clyde Cloud. Railed has become the best operating simp system for on premise all the way out to the cloud, providing that common operating model and workload foundation on which to build hybrid applications. Let's take it. Let's take a look at how far we've come and see this in action. >> Please welcome Red Hat Global director of developer experience, burst Sutter with Josh Boyer, Timothy Kramer, Lars Carl, it's Key and Brent Midwood. All right, we have some amazing things to show you. In just a few short moments, we actually have a lot of things to show you. And actually, Tim and Brandt will be with us momentarily. They're working out a few things in the back because we have a lot of this is gonna be a live demonstration, some incredible capabilities. Now you're going to see clear innovation inside the operating system where we worked incredibly hard to make it vast cities. You're free to manage many, many machines. I want you thinking about that as we go to this process. Now, also, keep in mind that this is the basis our core platform for everything we do here. Red hat. So it is an honor for me to be able to show it to you live on stage today. And so I recognize the many of you in the audience right now. Her hand's on systems administrators, systems, architect, citizens, engineers. And we know that you're under ever growing pressure to deliver needed infrastructure. Resource is ever faster, and that is a key element to what you're thinking about every day. Well, this has been a core theme, and our design decisions find red Odd Enterprise Lennox eight and intelligent operating system, which is making it fundamentally easier for you manage machines that scale. So hold what you're about to see next. Feels like a new superpower and and that redhead azure force multiplier. So first, let me introduce you to a large. He's totally my limits guru. >> I wouldn't call myself a girl, but I I guess you could say that I want to bring Lennox and light meant to more people. >> Okay, Well, let's let's dive in. And we're not about the clinic's eight. >> Sure. Let me go. And Morgan, >> wait a >> second. There's windows. >> Yeah, way Build the weft Consul into Really? That means that for the first time, you can log in from any device including your phone or this standard windows laptop. So you just go ahead and and to my Saturday lance credentials here. >> Okay, so now >> you're putting >> your limits password and over the web. >> Yeah, that might sound a bit scary at first, but of course, we're using the latest security tech by T. L s on dh csp on. Because that's the standard Lennox off site. You can use everything that you used to like a stage keys, OTP, tokens and stuff like this. >> Okay, so now I see the council right here. I love the dashboard overview of the system, but what else can you tell us about this council? >> Right? Like right here. You see the load of the system, some some of its properties. But you can also dive into logs everything that you're used to from the command line, right? Or lookit, services. This's all the services I've running, can start and stuff them and enable >> OK, I love that feature right there. So what about if I have to add a whole new application to this environment? >> Good that you're bringing that up. We build a new future into hell called application streams. Which the way for you to install different versions of your half stack that are supported I'LL show you with Youngmin a command line. But since Windows doesn't have a proper terminal, I'll just do it in the terminal that we built into the Web console Since the browser, I can even make this a bit bigger. Go to, for example, to see the application streams that we have for Poskus. Ijust do module list and I see you know we have ten and nine dot six Both supported tennis a default on defy enable ninety six Now the next time that I installed prescribes it will pull all their lady towards from them at six. >> Ok, so this is very cool. I see two verses of post Chris right here What tennis to default. That is fantastic and the application streams making that happen. But I'm really kind of curious, right? I loved using know js and Java. So what about multiple versions of those? >> Yeah, that's exactly the idea way. Want to keep up with the fast moving ecosystems off programming language? Isn't it a business? >> Okay, now, But I have another key question. I know some people were thinking it right now. What about Python? >> Yeah. In fact, in a minimum and still like this, python gives you command. Not fact. Just have to type it correctly. You can't just install which everyone you want two or three or whichever your application needs. >> Okay, Well, that is I've been burned on that one before. Okay, so no actual. Have a confession for all you guys. Right here. You guys keep this amongst yourselves. Don't let Paul No, I'm actually not a linnet systems administrator. I'm an application developer, an application architect, And I recently had to go figure out how to extend the file system. This is for real. And I'm going to the rat knowledge base and looking up things like, you know, PV create VD, extend resized to f s. And I have to admit, that's hard, >> right? I've opened the storage space for you right here, where you see an overview of your storage. And the council has made for people like you as well not only for people that I knew that when you two lunatics, right? It's if you're running, you're running some of the commands only, you know, some of the time you don't remember them. So, for example, I haven't felt twosome here. That's a little bit too small. Let me just throw it. It's like, you know, dragging this lighter. It calls all the command in the background for you. >> Oh, that is incredible. Is that simple? Just drag and drop. That is fantastic. Well, so I actually, you know, we'll have another question for you. It looks like now this linen systems administration is no longer a dark heart involving arcane commands typed into a black terminal. Like using when those funky ergonomic keyboards you know I'm talking about right? Do >> you know a lot of people, including me and people in the audience like that dark out right? And this is not taking any of that away. It's on additional tool to bring limits to more people. >> Okay, well, that is absolute fantastic. Thank you so much for that Large. And I really love him installing everything is so much easier, including a post gra seeker and, of course, the python that we saw right there. So now I want to change gears for a second because I actually have another situation that I'm always dealing with. And that is every time I want to build a new Lenox system, not only I don't want to have to install those commands again and again, it feels like I'm doing it over and over. So, Josh, how would I create a golden image? One VM image that can use and we have everything pre baked in? >> Yeah, absolutely. But >> we get that question all the time. So really includes image builder technology. Image builder technology is actually all of our hybrid cloud operating system image tools that we use to build our own images and rolled up in a nice, easy to integrate new system. So if I come here in the web console and I go to our image builder tab, it brings us to blueprints, right? Blueprints or what we used to actually control it goes into our golden image. Uh, and I heard you and Lars talking about post present python. So I went and started typing here. So it brings us to this page, but you could go to the selected components, and you can see here I've created a blueprint that has all the python and post press packages in it. Ah, and the interesting thing about this is it build on our existing kickstart technology. But you can use it to deploy that whatever cloud you want. And it's saved so that you don't actually have to know all the various incantations from Amazon toe azure to Google, whatever it's all baked in on. When you do this, you can actually see the dependencies that get brought in as well. Okay. Should we create one life? Yes, please. All right, cool. So if we go back to the blueprints page and we click create blueprint Let's, uh let's make a developer brute blueprint here. So we click great, and you can see here on the left hand side. I've got all of my content served up by Red Hat satellite. We have a lot of great stuff, and really, But we can go ahead and search. So we'LL look for post grows and you know, it's a developer image at the client for some local testing. Um, well, come in here and at the python bits. Probably the development package. We need a compiler if we're going to actually build anything. So look for GCC here and hey, what's your favorite editor? >> A Max, Of course, >> Max. All right. Hey, Lars, about you. I'm more of a person. You Maxim v I All right, Well, if you want to prevent a holy war in your system, you can actually use satellite to filter that out. But we're going to go ahead and Adam Ball, sweetie, I'm a fight on stage. So wait, just point and click. Let the graphical one. And then when we're all done, we just commit our changes, and our image is ready to build. >> Okay, So this VM image we just created right now from that blueprint this is now I can actually go out there and easily deploys of deploy this across multiple cloud providers. And as well as this on stage are where we have right now. >> Yeah, absolutely. We can to play on Amazon as your google any any infrastructure you're looking for so you can really hit your Clyburn hybrid cloud operating system images. >> Okay. All right, listen, we >> just go on, click, create image. Uh, we can select our different types here. I'm gonna go ahead and create a local VM because it's available image, and maybe they want to pass it around or whatever, and I just need a few moments for it to build. >> Okay? So while that's taking a few moments, I know there's another key question in the minds of the audience right now, and you're probably thinking I love what I see. What Right eye right hand Priceline say. But >> what does it >> take to upgrade from seven to eight? So large can you show us and walk us through an upgrade? >> Sure, this's my little Thomas Block that I set up. It's powered by what Chris and secrets over, but it's still running on seven six. So let's upgrade that jump over to my house fee on satellite on. You see all my relate machines here, including the one I showed you what Consul on before. And there is that one with my sun block and there's a couple others. Let me select those as well. This one on that one. Just go up here. Schedule remote job. And she was really great. And hit Submit. I made it so that it makes the booms national before. So if anything was wrong Kans throwback! >> Okay, okay, so now it's progressing. Here, >> it's progressing. Looks like it's running. Doing >> live upgrade on stage. Uh, >> seems like one is failing. What's going on here? Okay, we checked the tree of great Chuck. Oh, yeah, that's the one I was playing around with Butter fest backstage. What? Detective that and you know, it doesn't run the Afghan cause we don't support operating that. >> Okay, so what I'm hearing now? So the good news is, we were protected from possible failed upgrade there, So it sounds like these upgrades are perfectly safe. Aiken, basically, you know, schedule this during a maintenance window and still get some sleep. >> Totally. That's the idea. >> Okay, fantastic. All right. So it looks like upgrades are easy and perfectly safe. And I really love what you showed us there. It's good point. Click operation right from satellite. Ok, so Well, you know, we were checking out upgrades. I want to know Josh. How those v ems coming along. >> They went really well. So you were away for so long. I got a little bored and I took some liberties. >> What do you mean? >> Well, the image Bill And, you know, I decided I'm going to go ahead and deploy here to this Intel machine on stage Esso. I have that up and running in the web. Counsel. I built another one on the arm box, which is actually pretty fast, and that's up and running on this. Our machine on that went so well that I decided to spend up some an Amazon. So I've got a few instances here running an Amazon with the web console accessible there as well. On even more of our pre bill image is up and running an azure with the web console there. So the really cool thing about this bird is that all of these images were built with image builder in a single location, controlling all the content that you want in your golden images deployed across the hybrid cloud. >> Wow, that is fantastic. And you might think that so we actually have more to show you. So thank you so much for that large. And Josh, that is fantastic. Looks like provisioning bread. Enterprise Clinic Systems ate a redhead. Enterprise Enterprise. Rhetta Enterprise Lennox. Eight Systems is Asian ever before, but >> we have >> more to talk to you about. And there's one thing that many of the operations professionals in this room right now no, that provisioning of'em is easy, but it's really day two day three, it's down the road that those viens required day to day maintenance. As a matter of fact, several you folks right now in this audience to have to manage hundreds, if not thousands, of virtual machines I recently spoke to. Gentleman has to manage thirteen hundred servers. So how do you manage those machines? A great scale. So great that they have now joined us is that it looks like they worked things out. So now I'm curious, Tim. How will we manage hundreds, if not thousands, of computers? >> Welbourne, one human managing hundreds or even thousands of'em says, No problem, because we have Ansel automation. And by leveraging Ansel's integration into satellite, not only can we spin up those V em's really quickly, like Josh was just doing, but we can also make ongoing maintenance of them really simple. Come on up here. I'm going to show you here a satellite inventory and his red hat is publishing patches. Weaken with that danceable integration easily apply those patches across our entire fleet of machines. Okay, >> that is fantastic. So he's all the machines can get updated in one fell swoop. >> He sure can. And there's one thing that I want to bring your attention to today because it's brand new. And that's cloud that red hat dot com And here, a cloud that redhead dot com You can view and manage your entire inventory no matter where it sits. Of Redhead Enterprise Lennox like on Prem on stage. Private Cloud or Public Cloud. It's true Hybrid cloud management. >> OK, but one thing. One thing. I know that in the minds of the audience right now. And if you have to manage a large number servers this it comes up again and again. What happens when you have those critical vulnerabilities that next zero day CV could be tomorrow? >> Exactly. I've actually been waiting for a while patiently for you >> to get to the really good stuff. So >> there's one more thing that I wanted to let folks know about. Red Hat Enterprise. The >> next eight and some features that we have there. Oh, >> yeah? What is that? >> So, actually, one of the key design principles of relate is working with our customers over the last twenty years to integrate all the knowledge that we've gained and turn that into insights that we can use to keep our red hat Enterprise Lennox servers running securely, inefficiently. And so what we actually have here is a few things that we could take a look at show folks what that is. >> OK, so we basically have this new feature. We're going to show people right now. And so one thing I want to make sure it's absolutely included within the redhead enterprise in that state. >> Yes. Oh, that's Ah, that's an announcement that we're making this week is that this is a brand new feature that's integrated with Red Hat Enterprise clinics, and it's available to everybody that has a red hat enterprise like subscription. So >> I believe everyone in this room right now has a rail subscriptions, so it's available to all of them. >> Absolutely, absolutely. So let's take a quick look and try this out. So we actually have. Here is a list of about six hundred rules. They're configuration security and performance rules. And this is this list is growing every single day, so customers can actually opt in to the rules that are most that are most applicable to their enterprises. So what we're actually doing here is combining the experience and knowledge that we have with the data that our customers opt into sending us. So customers have opted in and are sending us more data every single night. Then they actually have in total over the last twenty years via any other mechanism. >> Now there's I see now there's some critical findings. That's what I was talking about. But it comes to CVS and things that nature. >> Yeah, I'm betting that those air probably some of the rail seven boxes that we haven't actually upgraded quite yet. So we get back to that. What? I'd really like to show everybody here because everybody has access to this is how easy it is to opt in and enable this feature for real. Okay, let's do that real quick, so I gotta hop back over to satellite here. This is the satellite that we saw before, and I'll grab one of the hosts and we can use the new Web console feature that's part of Railly, and via single sign on I could jump right from satellite over to the Web console. So it's really, really easy. And I'LL grab a terminal here and registering with insights is really, really easy. Is one command troops, and what's happening right now is the box is going to gather some data. It's going to send it up to the cloud, and within just a minute or two, we're gonna have some results that we can look at back on the Web interface. >> I love it so it's just a single command and you're ready to register this box right now. That is super easy. Well, that's fantastic, >> Brent. We started this whole series of demonstrations by telling the audience that Red Hat Enterprise Lennox eight was the easiest, most economical and smartest operating system on the planet, period. And well, I think it's cute how you can go ahead and captain on a single machine. I'm going to show you one more thing. This is Answerable Tower. You can use as a bell tower to managing govern your answerable playbook, usage across your entire organization and with this. What I could do is on every single VM that was spun up here today. Opt in and register insights with a single click of a button. >> Okay, I want to see that right now. I know everyone's waiting for it as well, But hey, you're VM is ready. Josh. Lars? >> Yeah. My clock is running a little late now. Yeah, insights is a really cool feature >> of rail. And I've got it in all my images already. All >> right, I'm doing it all right. And so as this playbook runs across the inventory, I can see the machines registering on cloud that redhead dot com ready to be managed. >> OK, so all those onstage PM's as well as the hybrid cloud VM should be popping in IRC Post Chris equals Well, fantastic. >> That's awesome. Thanks to him. Nothing better than a Red Hat Summit speaker in the first live demo going off script deal. Uh, let's go back and take a look at some of those critical issues affecting a few of our systems here. So you can see this is a particular deanna's mask issue. It's going to affect a couple of machines. We saw that in the overview, and I can actually go and get some more details about what this particular issue is. So if you take a look at the right side of the screen there, there's actually a critical likelihood an impact that's associated with this particular issue. And what that really translates to is that there's a high level of risk to our organization from this particular issue. But also there's a low risk of change. And so what that means is that it's really, really safe for us to go ahead and use answerable to mediate this so I can grab the machines will select those two and we're mediate with answerable. I can create a new playbook. It's our maintenance window, but we'LL do something along the lines of like stuff Tim broke and that'LL be our cause. We name it whatever we want. So we'Ll create that playbook and take a look at it, and it's actually going to give us some details about the machines. You know what, what type of reboots Efendi you're going to be needed and what we need here. So we'LL go ahead and execute the playbook and what you're going to see is the outputs goingto happen in real time. So this is happening from the cloud were affecting machines. No matter where they are, they could be on Prem. They could be in a hybrid cloud, a public cloud or in a private cloud. And these things are gonna be remediated very, very easily with answerable. So it's really, really awesome. Everybody here with a red hat. Enterprise licks Lennox subscription has access to this now, so I >> kind of want >> everybody to go try this like, we really need to get this thing going and try it out right now. But >> don't know, sent about the room just yet. You get stay here >> for okay, Mr. Excitability, I think after this keynote, come back to the red hat booth and there's an optimization section. You can come talk to our insights engineers. And even though it's really easy to get going on your own, they can help you out. Answer any questions you might have. So >> this is really the start of a new era with an intelligent operating system and beauty with intelligence you just saw right now what insights that troubles you. Fantastic. So we're enabling systems administrators to manage more red in private clinics, a greater scale than ever before. I know there's a lot more we could show you, but we're totally out of time at this point, and we kind of, you know, when a little bit sideways here moments. But we need to get off the stage. But there's one thing I want you guys to think about it. All right? Do come check out the in the booth. Like Tim just said also in our debs, Get hands on red and a prize winning state as well. But really, I want you to think about this one human and a multitude of servers. And if you remember that one thing asked you upfront. Do you feel like you get a new superpower and redhead? Is your force multiplier? All right, well, thank you so much. Josh and Lars, Tim and Brent. Thank you. And let's get Paul back on stage. >> I went brilliant. No, it's just as always, >> amazing. I mean, as you can tell from last night were really, really proud of relate in that coming out here at the summit. And what a great way to showcase it. Thanks so much to you. Birth. Thanks, Brent. Tim, Lars and Josh. Just thanks again. So you've just seen this team demonstrate how impactful rail Khun b on your data center. So hopefully hopefully many of you. If not all of you have experienced that as well. But it was super computers. We hear about that all the time, as I just told you a few minutes ago, Lennox isn't just the foundation for enterprise and cloud computing. It's also the foundation for the fastest super computers in the world. In our next guest is here to tell us a lot more about that. >> Please welcome Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. HPC solution Architect Robin Goldstone. >> Thank you so much, Robin. >> So welcome. Welcome to the summit. Welcome to Boston. And thank thank you so much for coming for joining us. Can you tell us a bit about the goals of Lawrence Livermore National Lab and how high high performance computing really works at this level? >> Sure. So Lawrence Livermore National >> Lab was established during the Cold War to address urgent national security needs by advancing the state of nuclear weapons, science and technology and high performance computing has always been one of our core capabilities. In fact, our very first supercomputer, ah Univac one was ordered by Edward Teller before our lab even opened back in nineteen fifty two. Our mission has evolved since then to cover a broad range of national security challenges. But first and foremost, our job is to ensure the safety, security and reliability of the nation's nuclear weapons stockpile. Oh, since the US no longer performs underground nuclear testing, our ability to certify the stockpile depends heavily on science based science space methods. We rely on H P C to simulate the behavior of complex weapons systems to ensure that they can function as expected, well beyond their intended life spans. That's actually great. >> So are you really are still running on that on that Univac? >> No, Actually, we we've moved on since then. So Sierra is Lawrence Livermore. Its latest and greatest supercomputer is currently the Seconds spastic supercomputer in the world and for the geeks in the audience, I think there's a few of them out there. We put up some of the specs of Syrah on the screen behind me, a couple of things worth highlighting our Sierra's peak performance and its power utilisation. So one hundred twenty five Pata flops of performance is equivalent to about twenty thousand of those Xbox one excess that you mentioned earlier and eleven point six megawatts of power required Operate Sierra is enough to power around eleven thousand homes. Syria is a very large and complex system, but underneath it all, it starts out as a collection of servers running Lin IX and more specifically, rail. >> So did Lawrence. Did Lawrence Livermore National Lab National Lab used Yisrael before >> Sierra? Oh, yeah, most definitely. So we've been running rail for a very long time on what I'll call our mid range HPC systems. So these clusters, built from commodity components, are sort of the bread and butter of our computer center. And running rail on these systems provides us with a continuity of operations and a common user environment across multiple generations of hardware. Also between Lawrence Livermore in our sister labs, Los Alamos and Sandia. Alongside these commodity clusters, though, we've always had one sort of world class supercomputer like Sierra. Historically, these systems have been built for a sort of exotic proprietary hardware running entirely closed source operating systems. Anytime something broke, which was often the Vander would be on the hook to fix it. And you know, >> that sounds >> like a good model, except that what we found overtime is most the issues that we have on these systems were either due to the extreme scale or the complexity of our workloads. Vendors seldom had a system anywhere near the size of ours, and we couldn't give them our classified codes. So their ability to reproduce our problem was was pretty limited. In some cases, they've even sent an engineer on site to try to reproduce our problems. But even then, sometimes we wouldn't get a fix for months or else they would just tell us they weren't going to fix the problem because we were the only ones having it. >> So for many of us, for many of us, the challenges is one of driving reasons for open source, you know, for even open source existing. How has how did Sierra change? Things are on open source for >> you. Sure. So when we developed our technical requirements for Sierra, we had an explicit requirement that we want to run an open source operating system and a strong preference for rail. At the time, IBM was working with red hat toe add support Terrell for their new little Indian power architecture. So it was really just natural for them to bid a red. A rail bay system for Sierra running Raylan Cyril allows us to leverage the model that's worked so well for us for all this time on our commodity clusters any packages that we build for X eighty six, we can now build those packages for power as well as our market texture using our internal build infrastructure. And while we have a formal support relationship with IBM, we can also tap our in house colonel developers to help debug complex problems are sys. Admin is Khun now work on any of our systems, including Sierra, without having toe pull out their cheat sheet of obscure proprietary commands. Our users get a consistent software environment across all our systems. And if the security vulnerability comes out, we don't have to chase around getting fixes from Multan slo es fenders. >> You know, you've been able, you've been able to extend your foundation from all the way from X eighty six all all the way to the extract excess Excuse scale supercomputing. We talk about giving customers all we talked about it all the time. A standard operational foundation to build upon. This isn't This isn't exactly what we've envisioned. So So what's next for you >> guys? Right. So what's next? So Sierra's just now going into production. But even so, we're already working on the contract for our next supercomputer called El Capitan. That's scheduled to be delivered the Lawrence Livermore in the twenty twenty two twenty timeframe. El Capitan is expected to be about ten times the performance of Sierra. I can't share any more details about that system right now, but we are hoping that we're going to be able to continue to build on a solid foundation. That relish provided us for well over a decade. >> Well, thank you so much for your support of realm over the years, Robin. And And thank you so much for coming and tell us about it today. And we can't wait to hear more about El Capitan. Thank you. Thank you very much. So now you know why we're so proud of realm. And while you saw confetti cannons and T shirt cannons last night, um, so you know, as as burned the team talked about the demo rail is the force multiplier for servers. We've made Lennox one of the most powerful platforms in the history of platforms. But just as Lennox has become a viable platform with access for everyone, and rail has become viable, more viable every day in the enterprise open source projects began to flourish around the operating system. And we needed to bring those projects to our enterprise customers in the form of products with the same trust models as we did with Ralph seeing the incredible progress of software development occurring around Lennox. Let's let's lead us to the next goal that we said tow, tow ourselves. That goal was to make hybrid cloud the default enterprise for the architecture. How many? How many of you out here in the audience or are Cesar are? HC sees how many out there a lot. A lot. You are the people that our building the next generation of computing the hybrid cloud, you know, again with like just like our goals around Lennox. This goals might seem a little daunting in the beginning, but as a community we've proved it time and time again. We are unstoppable. Let's talk a bit about what got us to the point we're at right right now and in the work that, as always, we still have in front of us. We've been on a decade long mission on this. Believe it or not, this mission was to build the capabilities needed around the Lenox operating system to really build and make the hybrid cloud. When we saw well, first taking hold in the enterprise, we knew that was just taking the first step. Because for a platform to really succeed, you need applications running on it. And to get those applications on your platform, you have to enable developers with the tools and run times for them to build, to build upon. Over the years, we've closed a few, if not a lot of those gaps, starting with the acquisition of J. Boss many years ago, all the way to the new Cuban Eddie's native code ready workspaces we launched just a few months back. We realized very early on that building a developer friendly platform was critical to the success of Lennox and open source in the enterprise. Shortly after this, the public cloud stormed onto the scene while our first focus as a company was done on premise in customer data centers, the public cloud was really beginning to take hold. Rehl very quickly became the standard across public clouds, just as it was in the enterprise, giving customers that common operating platform to build their applications upon ensuring that those applications could move between locations without ever having to change their code or operating model. With this new model of the data center spread across so many multiple environments, management had to be completely re sought and re architected. And given the fact that environments spanned multiple locations, management, real solid management became even more important. Customers deploying in hybrid architectures had to understand where their applications were running in how they were running, regardless of which infrastructure provider they they were running on. We invested over the years with management right alongside the platform, from satellite in the early days to cloud forms to cloud forms, insights and now answerable. We focused on having management to support the platform wherever it lives. Next came data, which is very tightly linked toe applications. Enterprise class applications tend to create tons of data and to have a common operating platform foyer applications. You need a storage solutions. That's Justus, flexible as that platform able to run on premise. Just a CZ. Well, as in the cloud, even across multiple clouds. This let us tow acquisitions like bluster, SEF perma bitch in Nubia, complimenting our Pratt platform with red hat storage for us, even though this sounds very condensed, this was a decade's worth of investment, all in preparation for building the hybrid cloud. Expanding the portfolio to cover the areas that a customer would depend on to deploy riel hybrid cloud architectures, finding any finding an amplifying the right open source project and technologies, or filling the gaps with some of these acquisitions. When that necessarily wasn't available by twenty fourteen, our foundation had expanded, but one big challenge remained workload portability. Virtual machine formats were fragmented across the various deployments and higher level framework such as Java e still very much depended on a significant amount of operating system configuration and then containers happened containers, despite having a very long being in existence for a very long time. As a technology exploded on the scene in twenty fourteen, Cooper Netease followed shortly after in twenty fifteen, allowing containers to span multiple locations and in one fell swoop containers became the killer technology to really enable the hybrid cloud. And here we are. Hybrid is really the on ly practical reality in way for customers and a red hat. We've been investing in all aspects of this over the last eight plus years to make our customers and partners successful in this model. We've worked with you both our customers and our partners building critical realm in open shift deployments. We've been constantly learning about what has caused problems and what has worked well in many cases. And while we've and while we've amassed a pretty big amount of expertise to solve most any challenge in in any area that stack, it takes more than just our own learning's to build the next generation platform. Today we're also introducing open shit for which is the culmination of those learnings. This is the next generation of the application platform. This is truly a platform that has been built with our customers and not simply just with our customers in mind. This is something that could only be possible in an open source development model and just like relish the force multiplier for servers. Open shift is the force multiplier for data centers across the hybrid cloud, allowing customers to build thousands of containers and operate them its scale. And we've also announced open shift, and we've also announced azure open shift. Last night. Satya on this stage talked about that in depth. This is all about extending our goals of a common operating platform enabling applications across the hybrid cloud, regardless of whether you run it yourself or just consume it as a service. And with this flagship release, we are also introducing operators, which is the central, which is the central feature here. We talked about this work last year with the operator framework, and today we're not going to just show you today. We're not going to just show you open shift for we're going to show you operators running at scale operators that will do updates and patches for you, letting you focus more of your time and running your infrastructure and running running your business. We want to make all this easier and intuitive. So let's have a quick look at how we're doing. Just that >> painting. I know all of you have heard we're talking to pretend to new >> customers about the travel out. So new plan. Just open it up as a service been launched by this summer. Look, I know this is a big quest for not very big team. I'm open to any and all ideas. >> Please welcome back to the stage. Red Hat Global director of developer Experience burst Sutter with Jessica Forrester and Daniel McPherson. All right, we're ready to do some more now. Now. Earlier we showed you read Enterprise Clinic St running on lots of different hardware like this hardware you see right now And we're also running across multiple cloud providers. But now we're going to move to another world of Lennox Containers. This is where you see open shift four on how you can manage large clusters of applications from eggs limits containers across the hybrid cloud. We're going to see this is where suffer operators fundamentally empower human operators and especially make ups and Deb work efficiently, more efficiently and effectively there together than ever before. Rights. We have to focus on the stage right now. They're represent ops in death, and we're gonna go see how they reeled in application together. Okay, so let me introduce you to Dan. Dan is totally representing all our ops folks in the audience here today, and he's telling my ops, comfort person Let's go to call him Mr Ops. So Dan, >> thanks for with open before, we had a much easier time setting up in maintaining our clusters. In large part, that's because open shit for has extended management of the clusters down to the infrastructure, the diversity kinds of parent. When you take >> a look at the open ship console, >> you can now see the machines that make up the cluster where machine represents the infrastructure. Underneath that Cooper, Eddie's node open shit for now handles provisioning Andy provisioning of those machines. From there, you could dig into it open ship node and see how it's configured and monitor how it's behaving. So >> I'm curious, >> though it does this work on bare metal infrastructure as well as virtualized infrastructure. >> Yeah, that's right. Burn So Pa Journal nodes, no eternal machines and open shit for can now manage it all. Something else we found extremely useful about open ship for is that it now has the ability to update itself. We can see this cluster hasn't update available and at the press of a button. Upgrades are responsible for updating. The entire platform includes the nodes, the control plane and even the operating system and real core arrests. All of this is possible because the infrastructure components and their configuration is now controlled by technology called operators. Thes software operators are responsible for aligning the cluster to a desired state. And all of this makes operational management of unopened ship cluster much simpler than ever before. All right, I >> love the fact that all that's been on one console Now you can see the full stack right all way down to the bare metal right there in that one console. Fantastic. So I wanted to scare us for a moment, though. And now let's talk to Deva, right? So Jessica here represents our all our developers in the room as my facts. He manages a large team of developers here Red hat. But more importantly, she represents our vice president development and has a large team that she has to worry about on a regular basis of Jessica. What can you show us? We'LL burn My team has hundreds of developers and were constantly under pressure to deliver value to our business. And frankly, we can't really wait for Dan and his ops team to provisioned the infrastructure and the services that we need to do our job. So we've chosen open shift as our platform to run our applications on. But until recently, we really struggled to find a reliable source of Cooper Netease Technologies that have the operational characteristics that Dan's going to actually let us install through the cluster. But now, with operator, How bio, we're really seeing the V ecosystem be unlocked. And the technology's there. Things that my team needs, its databases and message cues tracing and monitoring. And these operators are actually responsible for complex applications like Prometheus here. Okay, they're written in a variety of languages, danceable, but that is awesome. So I do see a number of options there already, and preaches is a great example. But >> how do you >> know that one? These operators really is mature enough and robust enough for Dan and the outside of the house. Wilbert, Here we have the operator maturity model, and this is going to tell me and my team whether this particular operator is going to do a basic install if it's going to upgrade that application over time through different versions or all the way out to full auto pilot, where it's automatically scaling and tuning the application based on the current environment. And it's very cool. So coming over toothy open shift Consul, now we can actually see Dan has made the sequel server operator available to me and my team. That's the database that we're using. A sequel server. That's a great example. So cynics over running here in the cluster? But this is a great example for a developer. What if I want to create a new secret server instance? Sure, we're so it's as easy as provisioning any other service from the developer catalog. We come in and I can type for sequel server on what this is actually creating is, ah, native resource called Sequel Server, and you can think of that like a promise that a sequel server will get created. The operator is going to see that resource, install the application and then manage it over its life cycle, KAL, and from this install it operators view, I can see the operators running in my project and which resource is its managing Okay, but I'm >> kind of missing >> something here. I see this custom resource here, the sequel server. But where the community's resource is like pods. Yeah, I think it's cool that we get this native resource now called Sequel Server. But if I need to, I can still come in and see the native communities. Resource is like your staple set in service here. Okay, that is fantastic. Now, we did say earlier on, though, like many of our customers in the audience right now, you have a large team of engineers. Lost a large team of developers you gotta handle. You gotta have more than one secret server, right? We do one for every team as we're developing, and we use a lot of other technologies running on open shift as well, including Tomcat and our Jenkins pipelines and our dough js app that is gonna actually talk to that sequel server database. Okay, so this point we can kind of provisions, Some of these? Yes. Oh, since all of this is self service for me and my team's, I'm actually gonna go and create one of all of those things I just said on all of our projects, right Now, if you just give me a minute, Okay? Well, right. So basically, you're going to knock down No Jazz Jenkins sequel server. All right, now, that's like hundreds of bits of application level infrastructure right now. Live. So, Dan, are you not terrified? Well, I >> guess I should have done a little bit better >> job of managing guests this quota and historically just can. I might have had some conflict here because creating all these new applications would admit my team now had a massive back like tickets to work on. But now, because of software operators, my human operators were able to run our infrastructure at scale. So since I'm long into the cluster here as the cluster admin, I get this view of pods across all projects. And so I get an idea of what's happening across the entire cluster. And so I could see now we have four hundred ninety four pods already running, and there's a few more still starting up. And if I scroll to the list, we can see the different workloads Jessica just mentioned of Tomcats. And no Gs is And Jenkins is and and Siegel servers down here too, you know, I see continues >> creating and you have, like, close to five hundred pods running >> there. So, yeah, filters list down by secret server, so we could just see. Okay, But >> aren't you not >> running going around a cluster capacity at some point? >> Actually, yeah, we we definitely have a limited capacity in this cluster. And so, luckily, though, we already set up auto scale er's And so because the additional workload was launching, we see now those outer scholars have kicked in and some new machines are being created that don't yet have noticed. I'm because they're still starting up. And so there's another good view of this as well, so you can see machine sets. We have one machine set per availability zone, and you could see the each one is now scaling from ten to twelve machines. And the way they all those killers working is for each availability zone, they will. If capacities needed, they will add additional machines to that availability zone and then later effect fast. He's no longer needed. It will automatically take those machines away. >> That is incredible. So right now we're auto scaling across multiple available zones based on load. Okay, so looks like capacity planning and automation is fully, you know, handle this point. But I >> do have >> another question for year logged in. Is the cluster admin right now into the console? Can you show us your view of >> operator suffer operators? Actually, there's a couple of unique views here for operators, for Cluster admits. The first of those is operator Hub. This is where a cluster admin gets the ability to curate the experience of what operators are available to users of the cluster. And so obviously we already have the secret server operator installed, which which we've been using. The other unique view is operator management. This gives a cluster I've been the ability to maintain the operators they've already installed. And so if we dig in and see the secret server operator, well, see, we haven't set up for manual approval. And what that means is if a new update comes in for a single server, then a cluster and we would have the ability to approve or disapprove with that update before installs into the cluster, we'LL actually and there isn't upgrade that's available. Uh, I should probably wait to install this, though we're in the middle of scaling out this cluster. And I really don't want to disturb Jessica's application. Workflow. >> Yeah, so, actually, Dan, it's fine. My app is already up. It's running. Let me show it to you over here. So this is our products application that's talking to that sequel server instance. And for debugging purposes, we can see which version of sequel server we're currently talking to. Its two point two right now. And then which pod? Since this is a cluster, there's more than one secret server pod we could be connected to. Okay, I could see right there the bounder screeners they know to point to. That's the version we have right now. But, you know, >> this is kind of >> point of software operators at this point. So, you know, everyone in this room, you know, wants to see you hit that upgrade button. Let's do it. Live here on stage. Right, then. All >> right. All right. I could see where this is going. So whenever you updated operator, it's just like any other resource on communities. And so the first thing that happens is the operator pot itself gets updated so we actually see a new version of the operator is currently being created now, and what's that gets created, the overseer will be terminated. And that point, the new, softer operator will notice. It's now responsible for managing lots of existing Siegel servers already in the environment. And so it's then going Teo update each of those sickle servers to match to the new version of the single server operator and so we could see it's running. And so if we switch now to the all projects view and we filter that list down by sequel server, then we should be able to see us. So lots of these sickle servers are now being created and the old ones are being terminated. So is the rolling update across the cluster? Exactly a So the secret server operator Deploy single server and an H A configuration. And it's on ly updates a single instance of secret server at a time, which means single server always left in nature configuration, and Jessica doesn't really have to worry about downtime with their applications. >> Yeah, that's awesome dance. So glad the team doesn't have to worry about >> that anymore and just got I think enough of these might have run by Now, if you try your app again might be updated. >> Let's see Jessica's application up here. All right. On laptop three. >> Here we go. >> Fantastic. And yet look, we're We're into two before we're onto three. Now we're on to victory. Excellent on. >> You know, I actually works so well. I don't even see a reason for us to leave this on manual approval. So I'm going to switch this automatic approval. And then in the future, if a new single server comes in, then we don't have to do anything, and it'll be all automatically updated on the cluster. >> That is absolutely fantastic. And so I was glad you guys got a chance to see that rolling update across the cluster. That is so cool. The Secret Service database being automated and fully updated. That is fantastic. Alright, so I can see how a software operator doesn't able. You don't manage hundreds if not thousands of applications. I know a lot of folks or interest in the back in infrastructure. Could you give us an example of the infrastructure >> behind this console? Yeah, absolutely. So we all know that open shift is designed that run in lots of different environments. But our teams think that as your redhead over, Schiff provides one of the best experiences by deeply integrating the open chief Resource is into the azure console, and it's even integrated into the azure command line toll and the easy open ship man. And, as was announced yesterday, it's now available for everyone to try out. And there's actually one more thing we wanted to show Everyone related to open shit, for this is all so new with a penchant for which is we now have multi cluster management. This gives you the ability to keep track of all your open shift environments, regardless of where they're running as well as you can create new clusters from here. And I'll dig into the azure cluster that we were just taking a look at. >> Okay, but is this user and face something have to install them one of my existing clusters? >> No, actually, this is the host of service that's provided by Red hat is part of cloud that redhead that calm and so all you have to do is log in with your red hair credentials to get access. >> That is incredible. So one console, one user experience to see across the entire hybrid cloud we saw earlier with Red update. Right and red embers. Thank Satan. Now we see it for multi cluster management. But home shift so you can fundamentally see. Now the suffer operators do finally change the game when it comes to making human operators vastly more productive and, more importantly, making Devon ops work more efficiently together than ever before. So we saw the rich ice vehicle system of those software operators. We can manage them across the Khyber Cloud with any, um, shift instance. And more importantly, I want to say Dan and Jessica for helping us with this demonstration. Okay, fantastic stuff, guys. Thank you so much. Let's get Paul back out here >> once again. Thanks >> so much to burn his team. Jessica and Dan. So you've just seen how open shift operators can help you manage hundreds, even thousands of applications. Install, upgrade, remove nodes, control everything about your application environment, virtual physical, all the way out to the cloud making, making things happen when the business demands it even at scale, because that's where it's going to get. Our next guest has lots of experience with demand at scale. and they're using open source container management to do it. Their work, their their their work building a successful cloud, First platform and there, the twenty nineteen Innovation Award winner. >> Please welcome twenty nineteen Innovation Award winner. Cole's senior vice president of technology, Rich Hodak. >> How you doing? Thanks. >> Thanks so much for coming out. We really appreciate it. So I guess you guys set some big goals, too. So can you baby tell us about the bold goal? Helped you personally help set for Cole's. And what inspired you to take that on? Yes. So it was twenty seventeen and life was pretty good. I had no gray hair and our business was, well, our tech was working well, and but we knew we'd have to do better into the future if we wanted to compete. Retails being disrupted. Our customers are asking for new experiences, So we set out on a goal to become an open hybrid cloud platform, and we chose Red had to partner with us on a lot of that. We set off on a three year journey. We're currently in Year two, and so far all KP eyes are on track, so it's been a great journey thus far. That's awesome. That's awesome. So So you Obviously, Obviously you think open source is the way to do cloud computing. So way absolutely agree with you on that point. So So what? What is it that's convinced you even more along? Yeah, So I think first and foremost wait, do we have a lot of traditional IAS fees? But we found that the open source partners actually are outpacing them with innovation. So I think that's where it starts for us. Um, secondly, we think there's maybe some financial upside to going more open source. We think we can maybe take some cost out unwind from these big fellas were in and thirdly, a CZ. We go to universities. We started hearing. Is we interviewed? Hey, what is Cole's doing with open source and way? Wanted to use that as a lever to help recruit talent. So I'm kind of excited, you know, we partner with Red Hat on open shift in in Rail and Gloucester and active M Q and answerable and lots of things. But we've also now launched our first open source projects. So it's really great to see this journey. We've been on. That's awesome, Rich. So you're in. You're in a high touch beta with with open shift for So what? What features and components or capabilities are you most excited about and looking forward to what? The launch and you know, and what? You know what? What are the something maybe some new goals that you might be able to accomplish with with the new features. And yeah, So I will tell you we're off to a great start with open shift. We've been on the platform for over a year now. We want an innovation award. We have this great team of engineers out here that have done some outstanding work. But certainly there's room to continue to mature that platform. It calls, and we're excited about open shift, for I think there's probably three things that were really looking forward to. One is we're looking forward to, ah, better upgrade process. And I think we saw, you know, some of that in the last demo. So upgrades have been kind of painful up until now. So we think that that that will help us. Um, number two, A lot of our open shift workloads today or the workloads. We run an open shifts are the stateless apse. Right? And we're really looking forward to moving more of our state full lapse into the platform. And then thirdly, I think that we've done a great job of automating a lot of the day. One stuff, you know, the provisioning of, of things. There's great opportunity o out there to do mohr automation for day two things. So to integrate mohr with our messaging systems in our database systems and so forth. So we, uh we're excited. Teo, get on board with the version for wear too. So, you know, I hope you, Khun, we can help you get to the next goals and we're going to continue to do that. Thank you. Thank you so much rich, you know, all the way from from rail toe open shift. It's really exciting for us, frankly, to see our products helping you solve World War were problems. What's you know what? Which is. Really? Why way do this and and getting into both of our goals. So thank you. Thank you very much. And thanks for your support. We really appreciate it. Thanks. It has all been amazing so far and we're not done. A critical part of being successful in the hybrid cloud is being successful in your data center with your own infrastructure. We've been helping our customers do that in these environments. For almost twenty years now, we've been running the most complex work loads in the world. But you know, while the public cloud has opened up tremendous possibilities, it also brings in another type of another layer of infrastructure complexity. So what's our next goal? Extend your extend your data center all the way to the edge while being as effective as you have been over the last twenty twenty years, when it's all at your own fingertips. First from a practical sense, Enterprises air going to have to have their own data centers in their own environment for a very long time. But there are advantages of being able to manage your own infrastructure that expand even beyond the public cloud all the way out to the edge. In fact, we talked about that very early on how technology advances in computer networking is storage are changing the physical boundaries of the data center every single day. The need, the need to process data at the source is becoming more and more critical. New use cases Air coming up every day. Self driving cars need to make the decisions on the fly. In the car factory processes are using a I need to adapt in real time. The factory floor has become the new edge of the data center, working with things like video analysis of a of A car's paint job as it comes off the line, where a massive amount of data is on ly needed for seconds in order to make critical decisions in real time. If we had to wait for the video to go up to the cloud and back, it would be too late. The damage would have already been done. The enterprise is being stretched to be able to process on site, whether it's in a car, a factory, a store or in eight or nine PM, usually involving massive amounts of data that just can't easily be moved. Just like these use cases couldn't be solved in private cloud alone because of things like blatant see on data movement, toe address, real time and requirements. They also can't be solved in public cloud alone. This is why open hybrid is really the model that's needed in the only model forward. So how do you address this class of workload that requires all of the above running at the edge? With the latest technology all its scale, let me give you a bit of a preview of what we're working on. We are taking our open hybrid cloud technologies to the edge, Integrated with integrated with Aro AM Hardware Partners. This is a preview of a solution that will contain red had open shift self storage in K V M virtual ization with Red Hat Enterprise Lennox at the core, all running on pre configured hardware. The first hardware out of the out of the gate will be with our long time. Oh, am partner Del Technologies. So let's bring back burn the team to see what's right around the corner. >> Please welcome back to the stage. Red Hat. Global director of developer Experience burst Sutter with Kareema Sharma. Okay, We just how was your Foreign operators have redefined the capabilities and usability of the open hybrid cloud, and now we're going to show you a few more things. Okay, so just be ready for that. But I know many of our customers in this audience right now, as well as the customers who aren't even here today. You're running tens of thousands of applications on open chef clusters. We know that disappearing right now, but we also know that >> you're not >> actually in the business of running terminators clusters. You're in the business of oil and gas from the business retail. You're in a business transportation, you're in some other business and you don't really want to manage those things at all. We also know though you have lo latest requirements like Polish is talking about. And you also dated gravity concerns where you >> need to keep >> that on your premises. So what you're about to see right now in this demonstration is where we've taken open ship for and made a bare metal cluster right here on this stage. This is a fully automated platform. There is no underlying hyper visor below this platform. It's open ship running on bare metal. And this is your crew vanities. Native infrastructure, where we brought together via mes containers networking and storage with me right now is green mush arma. She's one of her engineering leaders responsible for infrastructure technologies. Please welcome to the stage, Karima. >> Thank you. My pleasure to be here, whether it had summit. So let's start a cloud. Rid her dot com and here we can see the classroom Dannon Jessica working on just a few moments ago From here we have a bird's eye view ofthe all of our open ship plasters across the hybrid cloud from multiple cloud providers to on premises and noticed the spare medal last year. Well, that's the one that my team built right here on this stage. So let's go ahead and open the admin console for that last year. Now, in this demo, we'LL take a look at three things. A multi plaster inventory for the open Harbor cloud at cloud redhead dot com. Second open shift container storage, providing convert storage for virtual machines and containers and the same functionality for cloud vert and bare metal. And third, everything we see here is scuba unit is native, so by plugging directly into communities, orchestration begin common storage. Let working on monitoring facilities now. Last year, we saw how continue native actualization and Q Bert allow you to run virtual machines on Cabinet is an open shift, allowing for a single converge platform to manage both containers and virtual machines. So here I have this dark net project now from last year behead of induced virtual machine running it S P darknet application, and we had started to modernize and continue. Arise it by moving. Parts of the application from the windows began to the next containers. So let's take a look at it here. I have it again. >> Oh, large shirt, you windows. Earlier on, I was playing this game back stage, so it's just playing a little solitaire. Sorry about that. >> So we don't really have time for that right now. Birds. But as I was saying, Over here, I have Visions Studio Now the window's virtual machine is just another container and open shift and the i d be service for the virtual machine. It's just another service in open shift open shifts. Running both containers and virtual machines together opens a whole new world of possibilities. But why stop there? So this here be broadened to come in. It is native infrastructure as our vision to redefine the operation's off on premises infrastructure, and this applies to all matters of workloads. Using open shift on metal running all the way from the data center to the edge. No by your desk, right to main benefits. Want to help reduce the operation casts And second, to help bring advance good when it is orchestration concept to your infrastructure. So next, let's take a look at storage. So open shift container storage is software defined storage, providing the same functionality for both the public and the private lads. By leveraging the operator framework, open shift container storage automatically detects the available hardware configuration to utilize the discs in the most optimal vein. So then adding my note, you don't have to think about how to balance the storage. Storage is just another service running an open shift. >> And I really love this dashboard quite honestly, because I love seeing all the storage right here. So I'm kind of curious, though. Karima. What kind of storage would you What, What kind of applications would you use with the storage? >> Yeah, so this is the persistent storage. To be used by a database is your files and any data from applications such as a Magic Africa. Now the A Patrick after operator uses school, been at this for scheduling and high availability, and it uses open shift containers. Shortest. Restore the messages now Here are on premises. System is running a caf co workload streaming sensor data on DH. We want toe sort it and act on it locally, right In a minute. A place where maybe we need low latency or maybe in a data lake like situation. So we don't want to send the starter to the cloud. Instead, we want to act on it locally, right? Let's look at the griffon a dashboard and see how our system is doing so with the incoming message rate of about four hundred messages for second, the system seems to be performing well, right? I want to emphasize this is a fully integrated system. We're doing the testing An optimization sze so that the system can Artoo tune itself based on the applications. >> Okay, I love the automated operations. Now I am a curious because I know other folks in the audience want to know this too. What? Can you tell us more about how there's truly integrated communities can give us an example of that? >> Yes. Again, You know, I want to emphasize everything here is managed poorly by communities on open shift. Right. So you can really use the latest coolest to manage them. All right. Next, let's take a look at how easy it is to use K native with azure functions to script alive Reaction to a live migration event. >> Okay, Native is a great example. If actually were part of my breakout session yesterday, you saw me demonstrate came native. And actually, if you want to get hands on with it tonight, you can come to our guru night at five PM and actually get hands on like a native. So I really have enjoyed using K. Dated myself as a software developer. And but I am curious about the azure functions component. >> Yeah, so as your functions is a function is a service engine developed by Microsoft fully open source, and it runs on top of communities. So it works really well with our on premises open shift here. Right now, I have a simple azure function that I already have here and this azure function, you know, Let's see if this will send out a tweet every time we live My greater Windows virtual machine. Right. So I have it integrated with open shift on DH. Let's move a note to maintenance to see what happens. So >> basically has that via moves. We're going to see the event triggered. They trigger the function. >> Yeah, important point I want to make again here. Windows virtue in machines are equal citizens inside of open shift. We're investing heavily in automation through the use of the operator framework and also providing integration with the hardware. Right, So next, Now let's move that note to maintain it. >> But let's be very clear here. I wanna make sure you understand one thing, and that is there is no underlying virtual ization software here. This is open ship running on bear. Meddle with these bare metal host. >> That is absolutely right. The system can automatically discover the bare metal hosts. All right, so here, let's move this note to maintenance. So I start them Internets now. But what will happen at this point is storage will heal itself, and communities will bring back the same level of service for the CAFTA application by launching a part on another note and the virtual machine belive my great right and this will create communities events. So we can see. You know, the events in the event stream changes have started to happen. And as a result of this migration, the key native function will send out a tweet to confirm that could win. It is native infrastructure has indeed done the migration for the live Ian. Right? >> See the events rolling through right there? >> Yeah. All right. And if we go to Twitter? >> All right, we got tweets. Fantastic. >> And here we can see the source Nord report. Migration has succeeded. It's a pretty cool stuff right here. No. So we want to bring you a cloud like experience, but this means is we're making operational ease a fuse as a top goal. We're investing heavily in encapsulating management knowledge and working to pre certify hardware configuration in working with their partners such as Dell, and they're dead already. Note program so that we can provide you guidance on specific benchmarks for specific work loads on our auto tuning system. >> All right, well, this is tow. I know right now, you're right thing, and I want to jump on the stage and check out the spare metal cluster. But you should not right. Wait After the keynote didn't. Come on, check it out. But also, I want you to go out there and think about visiting our partner Del and their booth where they have one. These clusters also. Okay, So this is where vmc networking and containers the storage all come together And a Kurban in his native infrastructure. You've seen right here on this stage, but an agreement. You have a bit more. >> Yes. So this is literally the cloud coming down from the heavens to us. >> Okay? Right here, Right now. >> Right here, right now. So, to close the loop, you can have your plaster connected to cloud redhead dot com for our insights inside reliability engineering services so that we can proactively provide you with the guidance through automated analyses of telemetry in logs and help flag a problem even before you notice you have it Beat software, hardware, performance, our security. And one more thing. I want to congratulate the engineers behind the school technology. >> Absolutely. There's a lot of engineers here that worked on this cluster and worked on the stack. Absolutely. Thank you. Really awesome stuff. And again do go check out our partner Dale. They're just out that door I can see them from here. They have one. These clusters get a chance to talk to them about how to run your open shift for on a bare metal cluster as well. Right, Kareema, Thank you so much. That was totally awesome. We're at a time, and we got to turn this back over to Paul. >> Thank you. Right. >> Okay. Okay. Thanks >> again. Burned, Kareema. Awesome. You know, So even with all the exciting capabilities that you're seeing, I want to take a moment to go back to the to the first platform tenant that we learned with rail, that the platform has to be developer friendly. Our next guest knows something about connecting a technology like open shift to their developers and part of their company. Wide transformation and their ability to shift the business that helped them helped them make take advantage of the innovation. Their Innovation award winner this year. Please, Let's welcome Ed to the stage. >> Please welcome. Twenty nineteen. Innovation Award winner. BP Vice President, Digital transformation. Ed Alford. >> Thanks, Ed. How your fake Good. So was full. Get right into it. What we go you guys trying to accomplish at BP and and How is the goal really important in mandatory within your organization? Support on everyone else were global energy >> business, with operations and over seventy countries. Andi. We've embraced what we call the jewel challenge, which is increasing the mind for energy that we have as individuals in the world. But we need to produce the energy with fuel emissions. It's part of that. One of our strategic priorities that we >> have is to modernize the whole group on. That means simplifying our processes and enhancing >> productivity through digital solutions. So we're using chlo based technologies >> on, more importantly, open source technologies to clear a community and say, the whole group that collaborates effectively and efficiently and uses our data and expertise to embrace the jewel challenge and actually try and help solve that problem. That's great. So So how did these heart of these new ways of working benefit your team and really the entire organ, maybe even the company as a whole? So we've been given the Innovation Award for Digital conveyor both in the way it was created and also in water is delivering a couple of guys in the audience poll costal and brewskies as he they they're in the team. Their teams developed that convey here, using our jail and Dev ops and some things. We talk about this stuff a lot, but actually the they did it in a truly our jail and develops we, um that enabled them to experiment and walking with different ways. And highlight in the skill set is that we, as a group required in order to transform using these approaches, we can no move things from ideation to scale and weeks and days sometimes rather than months. Andi, I think that if we can take what they've done on DH, use more open source technology, we contain that technology and apply across the whole group to tackle this Jill challenge. And I think that we use technologists and it's really cool. I think that we can no use technology and open source technology to solve some of these big challenges that we have and actually just preserve the planet in a better way. So So what's the next step for you guys at BP? So moving forward, we we are embracing ourselves, bracing a clothed, forced organization. We need to continue to live to deliver on our strategy, build >> over the technology across the entire group to address the jewel >> challenge and continue to make some of these bold changes and actually get into and really use. Our technology is, I said, too addresses you'LL challenge and make the future of our planet a better place for ourselves and our children and our children's children. That's that's a big goal. But thank you so much, Ed. Thanks for your support. And thanks for coming today. Thank you very much. Thank you. Now comes the part that, frankly, I think his best part of the best part of this presentation We're going to meet the type of person that makes all of these things a reality. This tip this type of person typically works for one of our customers or with one of with one of our customers as a partner to help them make the kinds of bold goals like you've heard about today and the ones you'll hear about Maura the way more in the >> week. I think the thing I like most about it is you feel that reward Just helping people I mean and helping people with stuff you enjoy right with computers. My dad was the math and science teacher at the local high school. And so in the early eighties, that kind of met here, the default person. So he's always bringing in a computer stuff, and I started a pretty young age. What Jason's been able to do here is Mohr evangelize a lot of the technologies between different teams. I think a lot of it comes from the training and his certifications that he's got. He's always concerned about their experience, how easy it is for them to get applications written, how easy it is for them to get them up and running at the end of the day. We're a loan company, you know. That's way we lean on accounting like red. That's where we get our support front. That's why we decided to go with a product like open shift. I really, really like to product. So I went down. The certification are out in the training ground to learn more about open shit itself. So my daughter's teacher, they were doing a day of coding, and so they asked me if I wanted to come and talk about what I do and then spend the day helping the kids do their coding class. The people that we have on our teams, like Jason, are what make us better than our competitors, right? Anybody could buy something off the shelf. It's people like him. They're able to take that and mold it into something that then it is a great offering for our partners and for >> customers. Please welcome Red Hat Certified Professional of the Year Jason Hyatt. >> Jason, Congratulations. Congratulations. What a what a big day, huh? What a really big day. You know, it's great. It's great to see such work, You know that you've done here. But you know what's really great and shows out in your video It's really especially rewarding. Tow us. And I'm sure to you as well to see how skills can open doors for for one for young women, like your daughters who already loves technology. So I'd liketo I'd like to present this to you right now. Take congratulations. Congratulations. Good. And we I know you're going to bring this passion. I know you bring this in, everything you do. So >> it's this Congratulations again. Thanks, Paul. It's been really exciting, and I was really excited to bring my family here to show the experience. It's it's >> really great. It's really great to see him all here as well going. Maybe we could you could You guys could stand up. So before we leave before we leave the stage, you know, I just wanted to ask, What's the most important skill that you'LL pass on from all your training to the future generations? >> So I think the most important thing is you have to be a continuous learner you can't really settle for. Ah, you can't be comfortable on learning, which I already know. You have to really drive a continuous Lerner. And of course, you got to use the I ninety. Maxwell. Quite. >> I don't even have to ask you the question. Of course. Right. Of course. That's awesome. That's awesome. And thank you. Thank you for everything, for everything that you're doing. So thanks again. Thank you. You know what makes open source work is passion and people that apply those considerable talents that passion like Jason here to making it worked and to contribute their idea there. There's back. And believe me, it's really an impressive group of people. You know you're family and especially Berkeley in the video. I hope you know that the redhead, the certified of the year is the best of the best. The cream of the crop and your dad is the best of the best of that. So you should be very, very happy for that. I also and I also can't wait. Teo, I also can't wait to come back here on this stage ten years from now and present that same award to you. Berkeley. So great. You should be proud. You know, everything you've heard about today is just a small representation of what's ahead of us. We've had us. We've had a set of goals and realize some bold goals over the last number of years that have gotten us to where we are today. Just to recap those bold goals First bait build a company based solely on open source software. It seems so logical now, but it had never been done before. Next building the operating system of the future that's going to run in power. The enterprise making the standard base platform in the op in the Enterprise Olympics based operating system. And after that making hybrid cloud the architecture of the future make hybrid the new data center, all leading to the largest software acquisition in history. Think about it around us around a company with one hundred percent open source DNA without. Throughout. Despite all the fun we encountered over those last seventeen years, I have to ask, Is there really any question that open source has won? Realizing our bold goals and changing the way software is developed in the commercial world was what we set out to do from the first day in the Red Hat was born. But we only got to that goal because of you. Many of you contributors, many of you knew toe open source software and willing to take the risk along side of us and many of partners on that journey, both inside and outside of Red Hat. Going forward with the reach of IBM, Red hat will accelerate. Even Mohr. This will bring open source general innovation to the next generation hybrid data center, continuing on our original mission and goal to bring open source technology toe every corner of the planet. What I what I just went through in the last hour Soul, while mind boggling to many of us in the room who have had a front row seat to this overto last seventeen plus years has only been red hats. First step. Think about it. We have brought open source development from a niche player to the dominant development model in software and beyond. Open Source is now the cornerstone of the multi billion dollar enterprise software world and even the next generation hybrid act. Architecture would not even be possible without Lennox at the core in the open innovation that it feeds to build around it. This is not just a step forward for software. It's a huge leap in the technology world beyond even what the original pioneers of open source ever could have imagined. We have. We have witnessed open source accomplished in the last seventeen years more than what most people will see in their career. Or maybe even a lifetime open source has forever changed the boundaries of what will be possible in technology in the future. And in the one last thing to say, it's everybody in this room and beyond. Everyone outside continue the mission. Thanks have a great sum. It's great to see it

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red. Have some twenty nineteen brought to you by bread. Welcome back a few, but our way Our red have some twenty nineteen >> center along with Sue Mittleman. I'm John Walls were now joined by Robin Goldstone, who's HBC solution architect at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Hello, Robin >> Harrier. Good to see you. I >> saw you on the Keystone States this morning. Fascinating presentation, I thought. First off for the viewers at home who might not be too familiar with the laboratory If you could please just give it that thirty thousand foot level of just what kind of national security work you're involved with. >> Sure. So yes, indeed. We are a national security lab. And you know, first and foremost, our mission is assuring the safety, security reliability of our nuclear weapons stockpile. And there's a lot to that mission. But we also have broader national security mission. We work on counterterrorism and nonproliferation, a lot of of cyber security kinds of things. And but even just general science. We're doing things with precision medicine and and just all all sorts >> of interesting technology. Fascinating >> Es eso, Robin, You know so much and i t you know, the buzzword. The vast months years has been scaled on. We talk about what public loud people are doing. It's labs like yours have been challenged. Challenge with scale in many other ways, especially performance is something that you know, usually at the forefront of where things are you talked about in the keynote this morning. Sierra is the latest generation supercomputer number two, you know, supercomputer. So you know, I don't know how many people understand the petaflop one hundred twenty five flops and the like, but tell us a little bit about, you know, kind of the why and the what of that, >> right? So So Sierra's a supercomputer. And what's unique about these systems is that we're solving. There's lots of systems that network together. Maybe you're bigger number of servers than us, but we're doing scientific simulation, and that kind of computing requires a level of parallelism and very tightly coupled. So all the servers are running a piece of the problem. They all have to sort of operate together. If any one of them is running slow, it makes the whole thing goes slow. So it's really this tightly couple nature of super computers that make things really challenging. You know, we talked about performance. If if one servers just running slow for some reason, you know everything else is going to be affected by that. So we really do care about performance. And we really do care about just every little piece of the hardware you know, performing as it should. So So I >> think in national security, nuclear stockpiles. Um I mean, there is nothing more important, obviously, than the safety and security of the American people were at the center of that. Right? You're open source, right? You know, how does that work? How does that? Because as much trust and faith and confidence we have in the open source community. This is an extremely important responsibility that's being consigned more less to this open source community. >> Sure. You know, at first, people do have that feeling that we should be running some secret sauce. I mean, our applications themselves or secret. But when it comes to the system software and all the software around the applications, I mean, open source makes perfect sense. I mean, we started out running really closed source solutions in some cases, the perp. The hardware itself was really proprietary. And, of course, the vendors who made the hardware proprietary. They wanted their software to be proprietary. But I think most people can resonate when you buy a piece of software and the vendor tells you it's it's great. It's going to do everything you needed to do and trust us, right? Okay, But at our scale, it often doesn't work the way it's It's supposed to work. They've never tested it. Our skill. And when it breaks, now they have to fix. They're the only ones that can fix it. And in some cases we found it wasn't in the vendors decided. You know what? No one else has one quite like yours. And you know, it's a lot of work to make it work for you. So we're just not going to fix and you can't wait, right? And so open source is just the opposite of that, right? I mean, we have all that visibility in that software. If it doesn't work for our needs, we can make it work for our needs, and then we can give it back to the community. Because even though people are doing things that the scale that we are today, Ah, lot of the things that we're doing really do trickle down and can be used by a lot of other people. >> But it's something really important because, as you said, you used to be and I was like, OK, the Cray supercomputer is what we know, You know, let's use proprietary interfaces and I need the highest speed and therefore it's not the general purpose stuff. You moved X eighty six. Lennox is something that's been in the shower computers. Why? But it's a finely tuned version there. Let's get you know, the duct tape and baling wire. And don't breathe on it once you get it running. You're running well today and you talk a little bit about the journey with Roland. You know, now on the Super Computers, >> right? So again, there's always been this sort of proprietary, really high end supercomputing. But about in the late nineteen nineties, early two thousand, that's when we started building these these commodity clusters. You know, at the time, I think Beta Wolf was the terminology for that. But, you know, basically looking at how we could take these basic off the shelf servers and make them work for our applications and trying to take advantage of a CZ much commodity technologies we can, because we didn't want to re invent anything. We want to use as much as possible. And so we've really written that curve. And initially it was just red hat. Lennox. There was no relative time, but then when we started getting into the newer architectures going from Mexico six. Taxi, six, sixty for and Itanium, you know the support just wasn't there in basic red hat and again, even though it's open source and we could do everything ourselves, we don't want to do everything ourselves. I mean, having an organization having this Enterprise edition of Red Hat having a company stand behind it. The software is still open. Source. We can look at the source code. We can modify it if we want, But you know what at the end of the day, were happy to hand over some of our challenge is to Red Hat and and let them do what they do best. They have great, you know, reach into the into the colonel community. They can get things done that we can't necessarily get done. So it's a great relationship. >> Yes. So that that last mile getting it on Sierra there. Is that the first time on one kind of the big showcase your computer? >> Sure. And part of the reason for that is because those big computers themselves are basically now mostly commodity. I mean, again, you talked about a Cray, Some really exotic architecture. I mean, Sierra is a collection of Lennox servers. Now, in this case, they're running the power architecture instead of X eighty six. So Red hat did a lot of work with IBM to make sure that that power was was fully supported in the rail stack. But so, you know, again that the service themselves somewhat commodity were running and video GP use those air widely used everywhere. Obviously big deal for machine learning and stuff that the main the biggest proprietary component we're still dealing was is thie interconnect. So, you know, I mentioned these clusters have to be really tightly coupled. They that performance has to be really superior and most importantly, the latent see right, they have to be super low late and see an ethernet just doesn't cut it >> So you run Infinite Band today. I'm assuming we're >> running infinite band on melon oxen finna ban on Sierra on some of our commodity clusters. We run melon ox on other ones. We run intel. Omni Path was just another flavor of of infinite band. You know, if we could use it, if we could use Ethernet, we would, because again, we would get all the benefit in the leverage of what everybody else is doing, but just just hasn't hasn't quite been able to meet our needs in that >> area now, uh, find recalled the history lesson. We got a bit from me this morning. The laboratory has been around since the early fifties, born of the Cold War. And so obviously open source was, you know? Yeah, right, you know, went well. What about your evolution to open source? I mean, ahs. This has taken hold. Now, there had to be a tipping point at some point that converted and made the laboratory believers. But if you can, can you go back to that process? And was it of was it a big moment for you big time? Or was it just a kind of a steady migration? tour. >> Well, it's interesting if you go way back. We actually wrote the operating systems for those early Cray computers. We wrote those operating systems in house because there really was no operating system that will work for us. So we've been software developers for a long time. We've been system software developers, but at that time it was all proprietary in closed source. So we know how to do that stuff. The reason I think really what happened was when these commodity clusters came along when we showed that we could build a, you know, a cluster that could perform well for our applications on that commodity hardware. We started with Red Hat, but we had to add some things on top. We had to add the software that made a bunch of individual servers function as a cluster. So all the system management stuff the resource manager of the thing that lets a schedule jobs, batch jobs. We wrote that software, the parallel file system. Those things did not exist in the open source, and we helped to write those things, and those things took on lives of their own. So luster. It's a parallel file system that we helped develop slow, Erm, if anyone outside of HBC probably hasn't heard of it, but it's a resource manager that again is very widely popular. So the lab really saw that. You know, we got a lot of visibility by contributing this stuff to the community. And I think everybody has embracing. And we develop open source software at all different layers. This >> software, Robin, you know, I'm curious how you look at Public Cloud. So, you know, when I look at the public odd, they do a lot with government agencies. They got cloud. You know, I've talked to companies that said I could have built a super computer. Here's how long and do. But I could spend it up in minutes. And you know what I need? Is that a possibility for something of yours? I understand. Maybe not the super high performance, But where does it fit in? >> Sure, Yeah. I mean, certainly for a company that has no experience or no infrastructure. I mean, we have invested a huge amount in our data center, and we have a ton of power and cooling and floor space. We have already made that investment, you know, trying to outsource that to the cloud doesn't make sense. There are definitely things. Cloud is great. We are using Gove Cloud for things like prototyping, or someone wants a server, that some architecture, that we don't have the ability to just spin it up. You know, if we had to go and buy it, it would take six months because you know, we are the government. But be able to just spin that stuff up. It's really great for what we do. We use it for open source for building test. We use it to conferences when we want to run a tutorial and spin up a bunch of instances of, you know, Lennox and and run a tutorial. But the biggest thing is at the end of the day are our most important work. Clothes are on a classified environment, and we don't have the ability to run those workloads in the cloud. And so to do it on the open side and not be ableto leverage it on the close side, it really takes away some of the value of because we really want to make the two environments look a similar is possible leverage our staff and and everything like that. So that's where Cloud just doesn't quite fit >> in for us. You were talking about, you know, the speed of, Of of Sierra. And then also mentioning El Capitan, which is thie the next generation. You're next, You know, super unbelievably fast computer to an extent of ten X that off current speed is within the next four to five years. >> Right? That's the goal. I >> mean, what those Some numbers that is there because you put a pretty impressive array up there, >> right? So Series about one hundred twenty five PETA flops and are the big Holy Grail for high performance computing is excess scale and exit flop of performance. And so, you know, El Capitan is targeted to be, you know, one point two, maybe one point five exit flops or even Mohr again. That's peak performance. It doesn't necessarily translate into what our applications, um, I can get out of the platform. But the reason you keep sometimes I think, isn't it enough isn't one hundred twenty five five's enough, But it's never enough because any time we get another platform, people figure out how to do things with it that they've never done before. Either they're solving problems faster than they could. And so now they're able to explore a solution space much faster. Or they want to look at, you know, these air simulations of three dimensional space, and they want to be able to look at it in a more fine grain level. So again, every computer we get, we can either push a workload through ten times faster. Or we can look at a simulation. You know, that's ten times more resolved than the one that >> we could do before. So do this for made and for folks at home and take the work that you do and translate that toe. Why that exponential increase in speed will make you better. What you do in terms of decision making and processing of information, >> right? So, yeah, so the thing is, these these nuclear weapons systems are very complicated. There's multi physics. There's lots of different interactions going on, and to really understand them at the lowest level. One of the reasons that's so important now is we're maintaining a stockpile that is well beyond the life span that it was designed for. You know, these nuclear weapons, some of them were built in the fifties, the sixties and seventies. They weren't designed to last this long, right? And so now they're sort of out of their design regime, and we really have to understand their behaviour and their properties as they age. So it opens up a whole nother area, you know, that we have to be able to floor and and just some of that physics has never been explored before. So, you know, the problems get more challenging the farther we get away from the design basis of these weapons, but also were really starting to do new things like eh, I am machine learning things that weren't part of our workflow before. We're starting to incorporate machine learning in with simulation again to help explore a very large problem space and be ableto find interesting areas within a simulation to focus in on. And so that's a really exciting area. And that is also an area where, you know, GPS and >> stuff just exploded. You know, the performance levels that people are seeing on these machines? Well, we thank you for your work. It is critically important, azaz, we all realize and wonderfully fascinating at the same time. So thanks for the insights here on for your time. We appreciate that. >> All right, Thanks for >> thanking Robin Goldstone. Joining us back with more here on the Cube. You're watching our coverage live from Boston of Red Hat Summit twenty nineteen.

[Music] when welcome to the special exclusive cube conversation here in Palo Alto in our studios I'm John for your host of the cube we have a very special guest speaking for the first time around some alleged alleged accusations and also innuendo around the Amazon Web Services Jedi contract and his firm c5 capital our guest as Andre Pienaar who's the founder of c5 capital Andre is here for the first time to talk about some of the hard conversations and questions surrounding his role his firm and the story from the BBC Andre thanks for a rat for meeting with me John great to have me thank you so you're at the center of a controversy and just for the folks who know the cube know we interviewed a lot of people I've interviewed you at Amazon web sources summit Teresa Carl's event and last year I met you and bought a rein the work you're doing there so I've met you a few times so I don't know your background but I want to drill into it because I was surprised to see the BBC story come out last week that was basically accusing you of many things including are you a spy are you infiltrating the US government through the Jedi contract through Amazon and knowing c-5 capital I saw no correlation when reading your article I was kind of disturbed but then I saw I said a follow-on stories it just didn't hang together so I wanted to press you on some questions and thanks for coming in and addressing them appreciate it John thanks for having me so first thing I want to ask you is you know it has you at the center this firm c5 capital that you the founder of at the center of what looks like to be the fight for the big ten billion dollar DoD contract which has been put out to multiple vendors so it's not a single source deal we've covered extensively on silicon angle calm and the cube and the government the government Accounting Office has ruled that there are six main benefits of going with a sole provider cloud this seems to be the war so Oracle IBM and others have been been involved we've been covering that so it kind of smells like something's going along with the story and I just didn't believe some of the things I read and I want to especially about you and see five capitals so I want to dig into what the first thing is it's c5 capital involved in the Jedi contract with AWS Sean not at all we have absolutely no involvement in the Jedi contract in any way we're not a bidder and we haven't done any lobbying as has been alleged by some of the people who've been making this allegation c5 has got no involvement in the general contract we're a venture capital firm with a British venture capital firm we have the privilege of investing here in the US as a foreign investor and our focus really is on the growth and the success of the startups that we are invested in so you have no business interest at all in the deal Department of Defense Jedi contract none whatsoever okay so to take a minute to explain c5 firm I read some of the stories there and some of the things were intricate structures of c5 cap made it sound like there was like a cloak-and-dagger situation I want to ask you some hard questions around that because there's a link to a Russian situation but before we get to there I want to ask you explain what is c5 capital your mission what are the things that you're doing c5 is a is a British venture capital firm and we are focused on investing into fast-growing technology companies in three areas cloud computing cyber security and artificial intelligence we have two parts our business c5 capital which invests into late stage companies so these are companies that typically already have revenue visibility and profitability but still very fast-growing and then we also have a very early stage startup platform that look at seed state investment and this we do through two accelerators to social impact accelerators one in Washington and one in Bahrain and it's just size of money involved just sort of order magnitude how many funds do you have how is it structure again just share some insight on that is it is there one firm is there multiple firms how is it knows it work well today the venture capital business has to be very transparent it's required by compliance we are a regulated regulated firm we are regulated in multiple markets we regulated here in the US the sec as a foreign investor in london by the financial conduct authority and in Luxembourg where Afonso based by the regulatory authorities there so in the venture capital industry today you can't afford to be an opaque business you have to be transparent at all levels and money in the Western world have become almost completely transparent so there's a very comprehensive and thorough due diligence when you onboard capital called know your client and the requirements standard requirement now is that whenever you're onboard capital from investor you're gonna take it right up to the level of the ultimate beneficial ownership so who actually owns this money and then every time you invest and you move your money around it gets diligence together different regulators and in terms of disclosure and the same applies often now with clients when our portfolio companies have important or significant clients they also want to know who's behind the products and the services they receive so often our boards our board directors and a shell team also get diligence by by important clients so explain this piece about the due diligence and the cross country vetting that goes on is I think it's important I want to get it out because how long has been operating how many deals have you done you mentioned foreign investor in the United States you're doing deals in the United States I know I've met one of your portfolio companies at an event iron iron on it iron net general Keith Alexander former head of the NSA you know get to just work with him without being vetted I guess so so how long a c5 capital been in business and where have you made your investments you mentioned cross jurisdiction across countries whatever it's called I don't know that so we've been and we've been in existence for about six years now our main focus is investing in Europe so we help European companies grow globally Europe historically has been underserved by venture capital we on an annual basis we invest about twenty seven billion dollars gets invested in venture capital in Europe as opposed to several multiples of that in the US so we have a very important part to play in Europe to how European enterprise software companies grow globally other important markets for us of course are Israel which is a major center of technology innovation and and the Middle East and then the u.s. the u.s. is still the world leader and venture capital both in terms of size but also in terms of the size of the market and of course the face and the excitement of the innovation here I want to get into me early career because again timing is key we're seeing this with you know whether it's a Supreme Court justice or anyone in their career their past comes back to haunt them it appears that has for you before we get there I want to ask you about you know when you look at the kind of scope of fraud and corruption that I've seen in just on the surface of government thing the government bit Beltway bandits in America is you got a nonprofit that feeds a for-profit and then what you know someone else runs a shell corporation so there's this intricate structures and that word was used which it kind of implies shell corporations a variety of backroom kind of smokey deals going on you mentioned transparency I do you have anything to hide John in in in our business we've got absolutely nothing to hide we have to be transparent we have to be open if you look at our social media profile you'll see we are communicating with the market almost on a daily basis every time we make an investment we press release that our website is very clear about who's involved enough who our partners are and the same applies to my own personal website and so in terms of the money movement around in terms of deploying investments we've seen Silicon Valley VCS move to China get their butts handed to them and then kind of adjust their scenes China money move around when you move money around you mentioned disclosure what do you mean there's filings to explain that piece it's just a little bit so every time we make an investment into a into a new portfolio company and we move the money to that market to make the investment we have to disclose who all the investors are who are involved in that investment so we have to disclose the ultimate beneficial ownership of all our limited partners to the law firms that are involved in the transactions and those law firms in turn have applications in terms of they own anti-money laundering laws in the local markets and this happens every time you move money around so I I think that the level of transparency in venture capital is just continue to rise exponentially and it's virtually impossible to conceal the identity of an investor this interesting this BBC article has a theme of national security risk kind of gloom and doom nuclear codes as mentioned it's like you want to scare someone you throw nuclear codes at it you want to get people's attention you play the Russian card I saw an article on the web that that said you know anything these days the me2 movement for governments just play the Russian card and you know instantly can discredit someone's kind of a desperation act so you got confident of interest in the government national security risk seems to be kind of a theme but before we get into the BBC news I noticed that there was a lot of conflated pieces kind of pulling together you know on one hand you know you're c5 you've done some things with your hat your past and then they just make basically associate that with running amazon's jedi project yes which i know is not to be true and you clarified that joan ends a problem joan so as a venture capital firm focused on investing in the space we have to work with all the Tier one cloud providers we are great believers in commercial cloud public cloud we believe that this is absolutely transformative not only for innovation but also for the way in which we do venture capital investment so we work with Amazon Web Services we work with Microsoft who work with Google and we believe that firstly that cloud has been made in America the first 15 companies in the world are all in cloud companies are all American and we believe that cloud like the internet and GPS are two great boons which the US economy the u.s. innovation economy have provided to the rest of the world cloud computing is reducing the cost of computing power with 50 percent every three years opening up innovation and opportunities for Entrepreneurship for health and well-being for the growth of economies on an unprecedented scale cloud computing is as important to the global economy today as the dollar ease as the world's reserve currency so we are great believers in cloud we great believers in American cloud computing companies as far as Amazon is concerned our relationship with Amazon Amazon is very Amazon Web Services is very clear and it's very defined we participate in a public Marcus program called AWS activate through which AWS supports hundreds of accelerators around the world with know-how with mentoring with teaching and with cloud credits to help entrepreneurs and startups grow their businesses and we have a very exciting focus for our two accelerators which is on in Washington we focus on peace technology we focus on taking entrepreneurs from conflict countries like Sudan Nigeria Pakistan to come to Washington to work on campus in the US government building the u.s. Institute for peace to scale these startups to learn all about cloud computing to learn how they can grow their businesses with cloud computing and to go back to their own countries to build peace and stability and prosperity their heaven so we're very proud of this mission in the Middle East and Bahrain our focus is on on female founders and female entrepreneurs we've got a program called nebula through which we empower female founders and female entrepreneurs interesting in the Middle East the statistics are the reverse from what we have in the West the majority of IT graduates in the Middle East are fimo and so there's a tremendous talent pool of of young dynamic female entrepreneurs coming out of not only the Gulf but the whole of the MENA region how about a relation with Amazon websites outside of their normal incubators they have incubators all over the place in the Amazon put out as Amazon Web Services put out a statement that said hey you know we have a lot of relationships with incubators this is normal course of business I know here in Silicon Valley at the startup loft this is this is their market filled market playbook so you fit into that is that correct as I'm I get that that's that's absolutely correct what we what is unusual about a table insists that this is a huge company that's focused on tiny startups a table started with startups it double uses first clients with startups and so here you have a huge business that has a deep understanding of startups and focus on startups and that's enormous the attractor for us and terrific for our accelerators department with them have you at c5 Capitol or individually have any formal or conversation with Amazon employees where you've had outside of giving feedback on products where you've tried to make change on their technology make change with their product management teams engineering you ever had at c5 capital whore have you personally been involved in influencing Amazon's product roadmap outside they're just giving normal feedback in the course of business that's way above my pay grade John firstly we don't have that kind of technical expertise in C 5 C 5 steam consists of a combination of entrepreneurs like myself people understand money really well and leaders we don't have that level of technical expertise and secondly that's what one our relationship with AWS is all about our relationship is entirely limited to the two startups and making sure that the two accelerators in making sure that the startups who pass through those accelerators succeed and make social impact and as a partner network component Amazon it's all put out there yes so in in a Barren accelerator we've we formed part of the Amazon partner network and the reason why we we did that was because we wanted to give some of the young people who come through the accelerator and know mastering cloud skills an opportunity to work on some real projects and real live projects so some of our young golf entrepreneurs female entrepreneurs have been working on building websites on Amazon Cloud and c5 capital has a relationship with former government officials you funded startups and cybersecurity that's kind of normal can you explain that positioning of it of how former government if it's whether it's US and abroad are involved in entrepreneurial activities and why that is may or may not be a problem certainly is a lot of kind of I would say smoke around this conversation around coffin of interest and you can you explain intelligence what that was it so I think the model for venture capital has been evolving and increasingly you get more and more differentiated models one of the key areas in which the venture capital model is changed is the fact that operating partners have become much more important to the success of venture capital firms so operating partners are people who bring real world experience to the investment experience of the investment team and in c-five we have the privilege of having a terrific group of operating partners people with both government and commercial backgrounds and they work very actively enough firm at all levels from our decision-making to the training and the mentoring of our team to helping us understand the way in which the world is exchanging to risk management to helping uh portfolio companies grow and Silicon Valley true with that to injuries in Horowitz two founders mr. friendly they bring in operating people that have entrepreneurial skills this is the new model understand order which has been a great source of inspiration to us for our model and and we built really believe this is a new model and it's really critical for the success of venture capitals to be going forward and the global impact is pretty significant one of things you mentioned I want to get your take on is as you operate a global transaction a lots happened a lot has to happen I mean we look at the ICO market on the cryptocurrency side its kind of you know plummeting obsoletes it's over now the mood security children's regulatory and transparency becomes critical you feel fully confident that you haven't you know from a regulatory standpoint c5 capital everything's out there absolutely risk management and regulated compliance and legal as the workstream have become absolutely critical for the success of venture capital firms and one of the reasons why this becomes so important John is because the venture capital world over the last few years have changed dramatically historically all the people involved in venture capital had very familiar names and came from very familiar places over the last few years with a diversification of global economic growth we've seen it's very significant amounts of money being invest invested in startups in China some people more money will invest in startups this year in China than in the US and we've seen countries like Saudi Arabia becoming a major source of venture capital funding some people say that as much as 70% of funding rounds this year in some way or another originated from the Gulf and we've seen places like Russia beginning to take an interest in technology innovation so the venture capital world is changing and for that reason compliance and regulation have become much more important but if Russians put 200 million dollars in face book and write out the check companies bright before that when the after 2008 we saw the rise of social networking I think global money certainly has something that I think a lot of people start getting used to and I want on trill down into that a little bit we talked about this BBC story that that hit and the the follow-on stories which actually didn't get picked up was mostly doing more regurgitation of the same story but one of the things that that they focus in on and the story was you and the trend now is your past is your enemy these days you know they try to drum up stuff in the past you've had a long career some of the stuff that they've been bringing in to paint you and the light that they did was from your past so I wanted to explore that with you I know you this is the first time you've talked about this and I appreciate you taking the time talk about your early career your background where you went to school because the way I'm reading this it sounds like you're a shady character I like like I interviewed on the queue but I didn't see that but you know I'm going to pressure here for that if you don't mind I'd like to to dig into that John thank you for that so I've had the I've had the privilege of a really amazingly interesting life and at the heart of at the heart of that great adventures been people and the privilege to work with really great people and good people I was born in South Africa I grew up in Africa went to school there qualified as a lawyer and then came to study in Britain when I studied international politics when I finished my studies international politics I got head hunted by a US consulting firm called crow which was a start of a 20 years career as an investigator first in crawl where I was a managing director in the London and then in building my own consulting firm which was called g3 and all of this led me to cybersecurity because as an investigator looking into organized crime looking into corruption looking into asset racing increasingly as the years went on everything became digital and I became very interested in finding evidence on electronic devices but starting my career and CRO was tremendous because Jules Kroll was a incredible mentor he could walk through an office and call everybody by their first name any Kroll office anywhere in the world and he always took a kindly interest in the people who work for him so it was a great school to go to and and I worked on some terrific cases including some very interesting Russian cases and Russian organized crime cases just this bag of Kroll was I've had a core competency in doing investigative work and also due diligence was that kind of focus yes although Kroll was the first company in the world to really have a strong digital practice led by Alan Brugler of New York Alan established the first computer forensics practice which was all focused about finding evidence on devices and everything I know about cyber security today started with me going to school with Alan Brolin crawl and they also focused on corruption uncovering this is from Wikipedia Kroll clients help Kroll helps clients improve operations by uncovering kickbacks fraud another form of corruptions other specialty areas is forensic accounting background screening drug testing electronic investigation data recovery SATA result Omar's McLennan in 2004 for 1.9 billion mark divested Kroll to another company I'll take credit risk management to diligence investigator in Falls Church Virginia over 150 countries call Kroll was the first CRO was the first household brand name in this field of of investigations and today's still is probably one of the strongest brand names and so it was a great firm to work in and was a great privilege to be part of it yeah high-end high-profile deals were there how many employees were in Kroll cuz I'd imagine that the alumni that that came out of Kroll probably have found places in other jobs similar to yes do an investigative work like you know they out them all over the world many many alumni from Kroll and many of them doing really well and doing great work ok great so now the next question want to ask you is when you in Kroll the South Africa connection came up so I got to ask you it says business side that you're a former South African spy are you a former South African spy no John I've never worked for any government agency and in developing my career my my whole focus has been on investigations out of the Kroll London office I did have the opportunity to work in South Africa out of the Kroll London office and this was really a seminal moment in my career when I went to South Africa on a case for a major international credit-card company immediately after the end of apartheid when democracy started to look into the scale and extent of credit card fraud at the request of this guy what year was there - how old were you this was in 1995 1996 I was 25 26 years old and one of the things which this credit card company asked me to do was to assess what was the capability of the new democratic government in South Africa under Nelson Mandela to deal with crime and so I had the privilege of meeting mr. Mandela as the president to discuss this issue with him and it was an extraordinary man the country's history because there was such an openness and a willingness to to address issues of this nature and to grapple with them so he was released from prison at that time I remember those days and he became president that's why he called you and you met with him face to face of a business conversation around working on what the future democracy is and trying to look at from a corruption standpoint or just kind of in general was that what was that conversation can you share so so that so the meeting involved President Mandela and and the relevant cabinet ministers the relevant secretaries and his cabinet - responsible for for these issues and the focus of our conversation really started with well how do you deal with credit card fraud and how do you deal with large-scale fraud that could be driven by organized crime and at the time this was an issue of great concern to the president because there was bombing in Kate of a Planet Hollywood cafe where a number of people got very severely injured and the president believed that this could have been the result of a protection racket in Cape Town and so he wanted to do something about it he was incredibly proactive and forward-leaning and in an extraordinary way he ended the conversation by by asking where the Kroll can help him and so he commissioned Kroll to build the capacity of all the black officers that came out of the ANC and have gone into key government positions on how to manage organized crime investigations it was the challenge at that time honestly I can imagine apartheid I remember you know I was just at a college that's not properly around the same age as you it was a dynamic time to say the least was his issue around lack of training old school techniques because you know that was right down post-cold-war and then did what were the concerns not enough people was it just out of control was it a corrupt I mean just I mean what was the core issue that Nelson wanted to hire Kroll and you could work his core issue was he wanted to ensure the stability of South Africa's democracy that was his core focus and he wanted to make South Africa an attractive place where international companies felt comfortable and confident in investing and that was his focus and he felt that at that time because so many of the key people in the ANC only had training in a cold war context that there wasn't a Nessy skill set to do complex financial or more modern investigations and it was very much focused he was always the innovator he was very much focused on bringing the best practices and the best investigative techniques to the country he was I felt in such a hurry that he doesn't want to do this by going to other governments and asking for the help he wanted to Commission it himself and so he gave he gave a crawl with me as the project leader a contract to do this and my namesake Francois Pienaar has become very well known because of the film Invictus and he's been he had the benefit of Mandela as a mentor and as a supporter and that changed his career the same thing happened to me so what did he actually asked you to do was it to train build a force because there's this talk that and was a despite corruption specifically it was it more both corruption and or stability because they kind of go hand in hand policy and it's a very close link between corruption and instability and and president Ellis instructions were very clear to Crowley said go out and find me the best people in the world the most experienced people in the world who can come to South Africa and train my people how to fight organized crime so I went out and I found some of the best people from the CIA from mi6 the British intelligence service from the Drug Enforcement Agency here in the US form officers from the Federal Bureau of Investigation's detectives from Scotland Yard prosecutors from the US Justice Department and all of them for a number of years traveled to South Africa to train black officers who were newly appointed in key roles in how to combat organized crime and this was you acting as an employee he had crow there's not some operative this is he this was me very much acting as a as an executive and crow I was the project leader Kroll was very well structured and organized and I reported to the chief executive officer in the London office nor Garret who was the former head of the CIA's Near East Division and Nelson Mandela was intimately involved in this with you at Krall President Mandela was the ultimate support of this project and he then designated several ministers to work on it and also senior officials in the stories that had been put out this past week they talked about this to try to make it sound like you're involved on two sides of the equation they bring up scorpions was this the scorpions project that they referred to so it was the scorpions scorpion sounds so dangerous and a movie well there's a movie a movie does feature this so at the end of the training project President Mandela and deputy president Thabo Mbeki who subsequently succeeded him as president put together a ministerial committee to look at what should they do with the capacity that's been built with this investment that they made because for a period of about three years we had all the leading people the most experienced people that have come out of some of the best law enforcement agencies and some of the best intelligence services come and trained in South Africa and this was quite this was quite something John because many of the senior officers in the ANC came from a background where they were trained by the opponents of the people came to treat trained them so so many of them were trained by the Stasi in East Germany some of them were trained by the Russian KGB some of them were trained by the Cubans so we not only had to train them we also had to win their trust and when we started this that's a diverse set of potential dogma and or just habits a theory modernised if you will right is that what the there was there was a question of of learning new skills and there was a question about also about learning management capabilities there was also question of learning the importance of the media for when you do difficult and complex investigations there was a question about using digital resources but there was also fundamentally a question of just building trust and when we started this program none of the black officers wanted to be photographed with all these foreign trainers who were senior foreign intelligence officers when we finished that everyone wanted to be in the photograph and so this was a great South African success story but the President and the deputy president then reflected on what to do with his capacity and they appointed the ministerial task force to do this and we were asked to make recommendations to this Minister ministerial task force and one of the things which we did was we showed them a movie because you referenced the movie and the movie we showed them was the untouchables with Kevin Costner and Sean Connery which is still one of my favorite and and greatest movies and the story The Untouchables is about police corruption in Chicago and how in the Treasury Department a man called Eliot Ness put together a group of officers from which he selected from different places with clean hands to go after corruption during the Probie and this really captured the president's imagination and so he said that's what he want and Ella yeah okay so he said della one of the untouchables he wanted Eliot Ness exactly Al Capone's out there and and how many people were in that goodness so we asked that we we established the government then established decided to establish and this was passed as a law through Parliament the director of special operations the DSO which colloquy became known as the scorpions and it had a scorpion as a symbol for this unit and this became a standalone anti-corruption unit and the brilliant thing about it John was that the first intake of scorpion officers were all young black graduates many of them law graduates and at the time Janet Reno was the US Attorney General played a very crucial role she allowed half of the first intake of young cratchits to go to Quantico and to do the full FBI course in Quantico and this was the first group of foreign students who've ever been admitted to Quantico to do the full Quantico were you involved at what score's at that time yes sir and so you worked with President Mandela yes the set of the scorpions is untouchable skiing for the first time as a new democracy is emerging the landscape is certainly changing there's a transformation happening we all know the history laugh you don't watch Invictus probably great movie to do that you then worked with the Attorney General United States to cross-pollinate the folks in South Africa black officers law degrees Samar's fresh yes this unit with Quantico yes in the United States I had the privilege of attending the the graduation ceremony of the first of South African officers that completed the Quantico course and representing crow they on the day you had us relationships at that time to crawl across pollen I had the privilege of working with some of the best law enforcement officers and best intelligence officers that has come out of the u.s. services and they've been tremendous mentors in my career they've really shaped my thinking they've shaped my values and they've they've shaved my character so you're still under 30 at this time so give us a is that where this where are we in time now just about a 30 so you know around the nine late nineties still 90s yeah so client-server technologies there okay so also the story references Leonard McCarthy and these spy tapes what is this spy tape saga about it says you had a conversation with McCarthy me I'm thinking that a phone tap explain that spy tape saga what does it mean who's Lennon McCarthy explain yourself so so so Leonard McCarthy it's a US citizen today he served two terms as the vice president for institutional integrity at the World Bank which is the world's most important anti-corruption official he started his career as a prosecutor in South Africa many years ago and then became the head of the economic crimes division in the South African Justice Department and eventually became the head of the scorpions and many years after I've left Kroll and were no longer involved in in the work of the scorpions he texted me one evening expressing a concern and an anxiety that I had about the safety of his family and I replied to him with two text messages one was a Bible verse and the other one was a Latin saying and my advice name was follow the rule of law and put the safety of your family first and that was the advice I gave him so this is how I imagined the year I think of it the internet was just there this was him this was roundabout 2000 December 2007 okay so there was I phone just hit so text messaging Nokia phones all those big yeah probably more text message there so you sitting anywhere in London you get a text message from your friend yep later this past late tonight asking for help and advice and I gave him the best advice I can he unfortunately was being wiretapped and those wiretaps were subsequently published and became the subject of much controversy they've now been scrutinized by South Africa's highest court and the court has decided that those wiretaps are of no impact and of importance in the scheme of judicial decision-making and our unknown provenance and on and on unknown reliability they threw it out basically yeah they're basically that's the president he had some scandals priors and corruption but back to the tapes you the only involvement on the spy tapes was friend sending you a text message that says hey I'm running a corruption you know I'm afraid for my life my family what do I do and you give some advice general advice and that's it as there was there any more interactions with us no that's it that's it okay so you weren't like yeah working with it hey here's what we get strategy there was nothing that going on no other interactions just a friendly advice and that's what they put you I gave him my I gave him my best advice when you when you work in when you work as an investigator very much as and it's very similar in venture capital it's all about relationships and you want to preserve relationships for the long term and you develop deep royalties to its people particularly people with whom you've been through difficult situations as I have been with Leonard much earlier on when I was still involved in Kroll and giving advice to South African government on issues related to the scorpius so that that has a lot of holes and I did think that was kind of weird they actually can produce the actual tax I couldn't find that the spy tapes so there's a spy tape scandal out there your name is on out on one little transaction globbed on to you I mean how do you feel about that I mean you must've been pretty pissed when you saw that when you do it when when you do when you do investigative work you see really see everything and all kinds of things and the bigger the issues that you deal with the more frequently you see things that other people might find unusual I are you doing any work right now with c5 at South Africa and none whatsoever so I've I retired from my investigative Korea in 2014 I did terrific 20 years as an investigator during my time as investigator I came to understood the importance of digital and cyber and so at the end of it I saw an opportunity to serve a sector that historically have been underserved with capital which is cyber security and of course there are two areas very closely related to cyber security artificial intelligence and cloud and that's why I created c5 after I sold my investigator firm with five other families who equally believed in the importance of investing private capital to make a difference invest in private capital to help bring about innovation that can bring stability to the digital world and that's the mission of c-5 before I get to the heart news I want to drill in on the BBC stories I think that's really the focal point of you know why we're talking just you know from my standpoint I remember living as a young person in that time breaking into the business you know my 20s and 30s you had Live Aid in 1985 and you had 1995 the internet happened there was so much going on between those that decade 85 to 95 you were there I was an American so I didn't really have a lot exposure I did some work for IBM and Europe in 1980 says it's co-op student but you know I had some peak in the international world it must been pretty dynamic the cross-pollination the melting pot of countries you know the Berlin Wall goes down you had the cold war's ending you had apartheid a lot of things were going on around you yes so in that dynamic because if if the standard is you had links to someone you know talked about why how important it was that this melting pot and how it affected your relationships and how it looks now looking back because now you can almost tie anything to anything yes so I think the 90s was one of the most exciting periods of time because you had the birth of the internet and I started working on Internet related issues yet 20 million users today we have three and a half billion users and ten billion devices unthinkable at the time but in the wake of the internet also came a lot of changes as you say the Berlin Wall came down democracy in South Africa the Oslo peace process in the time that I worked in Kroll some of them made most important and damaging civil wars in Africa came to an end including the great war in the Congo peace came to Sudan and Angola the Ivory Coast so a lot of things happening and if you have a if you had a an international career at that time when globalization was accelerating you got to no a lot of people in different markets and both in crow and in my consulting business a key part of what it but we did was to keep us and Western corporations that were investing in emerging markets safe your credibility has been called in questions with this article and when I get to in a second what I want to ask you straight up is it possible to survive in the international theatre to the level that you're surviving if what they say is true if you if you're out scamming people or you're a bad actor pretty much over the the time as things get more transparent it's hard to survive right I mean talk about that dynamic because I just find it hard to believe that to be successful the way you are it's not a johnny-come-lately firms been multiple years operating vetted by the US government are people getting away in the shadows is it is is it hard because I almost imagine those are a lot of arbitrage I imagine ton of arbitrage that you that are happening there how hard or how easy it is to survive to be that shady and corrupt in this new era because with with with investigated with with intelligence communities with some terrific if you follow the money now Bitcoin that's a whole nother story but that's more today but to survive the eighties and nineties and to be where you are and what they're alleging I just what's your thoughts well to be able to attract capital and investors you have to have very high standards of governance and compliance because ultimately that's what investors are looking for and what investors will diligence when they make an investment with you so to carry the confidence of investors good standards of governance and compliance are of critical importance and raising venture capital and Europe is tough it's not like the US babe there's an abundance of venture capital available it's very hard Europe is under served by capital the venture capital invested in the US market is multiple of what we invest in Europe so you need to be even more focused on governance and compliance in Europe than you would be perhaps on other markets I think the second important point with Gmail John is that technology is brought about a lot of transparency and this is a major area of focus for our piece tech accelerator where we have startups who help to bring transparency to markets which previously did not have transparency for example one of the startups that came through our accelerator has brought complete transparency to the supply chain for subsistence farmers in Africa all the way to to the to the shelf of Walmart or a big grocery retailer in in the US or Europe and so I think technology is bringing a lot more more transparency we also have a global anti-corruption Innovation Challenge called shield in the cloud where we try and find and recognize the most innovative corporations governments and countries in the space so let's talk about the BBC story that hit 12 it says is a US military cloud the DoD Jedi contractor that's coming to award the eleventh hour safe from Russia fears over sensitive data so if this essentially the headline that's bolded says a technology company bidding for a Pentagon contract that's Amazon Web Services to store sensitive data has close partnerships with a firm linked to a sanctioned Russian oligarch the BBC has learned goes on to essentially put fear and tries to hang a story that says the national security of America is at risk because of c5u that's what we're talking about right now so so what's your take on this story I mean did you wake up and get an email said hey check out the BBC you're featured in and they're alleging that you have links to Russia and Amazon what Jon first I have to go I first have to do a disclosure I've worked for the BBC as an investigator when I was in Kroll and in fact I let the litigation support for the BBC in the biggest libel claim in British history which was post 9/11 when the BBC did a broadcast mistakenly accusing a mining company in Africa of laundering money for al-qaeda and so I represented the BBC in this case I was the manager hired you they hired me to delete this case for them and I'm I helped the BBC to reduce a libel claim of 25 million dollars to $750,000 so I'm very familiar with the BBC its integrity its standards and how it does things and I've always held the BBC in the highest regard and believed that the BBC makes a very important contribution to make people better informed about the world so when I heard about the story I was very disappointed because it seemed to me that the BBC have compromised the independence and the independence of the editorial control in broadcasting the story the reason why I say that is because the principal commentator in this story as a gentleman called John Wheeler who's familiar to me as a someone who's been trolling our firm on internet for the last year making all sorts of allegations the BBC did not disclose that mr. Weiler is a former Oracle executive the company that's protesting the Jedi bidding contract and secondly that he runs a lobbying firm with paid clients and that he himself often bid for government contracts in the US government context you're saying that John Wheeler who's sourced in the story has a quote expert and I did check him out I did look at what he was doing I checked out his Twitter he seems to be trying to socialise a story heavily first he needed eyes on LinkedIn he seems to be a consultant firm like a Beltway yes he runs a he runs a phone called in interoperability Clearing House and a related firm called the IT acquisition Advisory Council and these two organizations work very closely together the interoperability Clearing House or IC H is a consulting business where mr. Weiler acts for paying clients including competitors for this bidding contract and none of this was disclosed by the BBC in their program the second part of this program that I found very disappointing was the fact that the BBC in focusing on the Russian technology parks cocuwa did not disclose the list of skok of our partners that are a matter of public record on the Internet if you look at this list very closely you'll see c5 is not on there neither Amazon Web Services but the list of companies that are on there are very familiar names many of them competitors in this bidding process who acted as founding partners of skok about Oracle for example as recently as the 28th of November hosted what was described as the largest cloud computing conference in Russia's history at Skolkovo this is the this is the place which the BBC described as this notorious den of spies and at this event which Oracle hosted they had the Russian presidential administration on a big screen as one of their clients in Russia so some Oracle is doing business in Russia they have like legit real links to Russia well things you're saying if they suddenly have very close links with Skolkovo and so having a great many other Khayyam is there IBM Accenture cisco say Microsoft is saying Oracle is there so Skolkovo has a has a very distinguished roster of partners and if the BBC was fair and even-handed they would have disclosed us and they would have disclosed the fact that neither c5 nor Amazon feature as Corcovado you feel that the BBC has been duped the BBC clearly has been duped the program that they broadcasted is really a parlor game of six degrees of separation which they try to spun into a national security crisis all right so let's tell us John while ago you're saying John Wyler who's quoted in the story as an expert and by the way I read in the story my favorite line that I wanted to ask you on was there seems to be questions being raised but the question is being raised or referring to him so are you saying that he is not an expert but a plant for the story what's what's his role he's saying he works for Oracle or you think do you think he's being paid by Oracle like I can't comment on mr. Wireless motivation what strikes me is the fact that is a former Oracle executive what's striking is that he clearly on his website for the IC H identifies several competitors for the Jedi business clients and that all of this should have been disclosed by the BBC rather than to try and characterize and portray him as an independent expert on this story well AWS put out a press release or a blog post essentially hum this you know you guys had won it we're very clear and this I know it goes to the top because that's how Amazon works nothing goes out until it goes to the top which is Andy chassis and the senior people over there it says here's the relationship with c5 and ATS what school you use are the same page there but also they hinted the old guard manipulation distant I don't think they use the word disinformation campaign they kind of insinuate it and that's what I'm looking into I want to ask you are you part are you a victim of a disinformation campaign do you believe that you're not a victim being targeted with c5 as part of a disinformation campaign put on by a competitor to AWS I think what we've seen over the course of this last here is an enormous amount of disinformation around this contract and around this bidding process and they've a lot of the information that has been disseminated has not only not been factual but in some cases have been patently malicious well I have been covering Amazon for many many years this guy Tom Wyler is in seems to be circulating multiple reports invested in preparing for this interview I checked Vanity Fair he's quoted in Vanity Fair he's quoted in the BBC story and there's no real or original reporting other than those two there's some business side our article which is just regurgitating the Business Insider I mean the BBC story and a few other kind of blog stories but no real original yes no content don't so in every story that that's been written on this subject and as you say most serious publication have thrown this thrown these allegations out but in the in those few instances where they've managed to to publish these allegations and to leverage other people's credibility to their advantage and leverage other people's credibility for their competitive advantage John Wheeler has been the most important and prominent source of the allegations someone who clearly has vested commercial interests someone who clearly works for competitors as disclosed on his own website and none of this has ever been surfaced or addressed I have multiple sources have confirmed to me that there's a dossier that has been created and paid for by a firm or collection of firms to discredit AWS I've seen some of the summary documents of that and that is being peddled around to journalists we have not been approached yet I'm not sure they will because we actually know the cloud what cloud computing is so I'm sure we could debunk it by just looking at it and what they were putting fors was interesting is this an eleventh-hour a desperation attempt because I have the Geo a report here that was issued under Oracle's change it says there are six conditions why we're looking at one sole cloud although it's not a it's a multiple bid it's not an exclusive to amazon but so there's reasons why and they list six service levels highly specialized check more favorable terms and conditions with a single award expected cause of administration of multiple contracts outweighs the benefits of multiple awards the projected orders are so intricately related that only a single contractor can reasonably be perform the work meaning that Amazon has the only cloud that can do that work now I've reported on the cube and it's looking angle that it's true there's things that other clouds just don't have anyone has private they have the secret the secret clouds the total estimated value of the contract is less than the simplified acquisition threshold or multiple awards would not be in the best interest this is from them this is a government report so it seems like there's a conspiracy against Amazon where you are upon and in in this game collect you feel that collateral damage song do you do you believe that to be true collateral damage okay well okay so now the the John Wheeler guys so investigate you've been an investigator so you mean you're not you know you're not a retired into this a retired investigator you're retired investigated worked on things with Nelson Mandela Kroll Janet Reno Attorney General you've vetted by the United States government you have credibility you have relationships with people who have have top-secret clearance all kinds of stuff but I mean do you have where people have top-secret clearance or or former people who had done well we have we have the privilege of of working with a very distinguished group of senior national security leaders as operating partisan c5 and many of them have retained their clearances and have been only been able to do so because c5 had to pass through a very deep vetting process so for you to be smeared like this you've been in an investigative has you work at a lot of people this is pretty obvious to you this is like a oh is it like a deep state conspiracy you feel it's one vendor - what is your take and what does collateral damage mean to you well I recently spoke at the mahkum conference on a session on digital warfare and one of the key points I made there was that there are two things that are absolutely critical for business leaders and technology leaders at this point in time one we have to clearly say that our countries are worth defending we can't walk away from our countries because the innovation that we are able to build and scale we're only able to do because we live in democracies and then free societies that are governed by the rule of law the second thing that I think is absolutely crucial for business leaders in the technology community is to accept that there must be a point where national interest overrides competition it must be a point where we say the benefit and the growth and the success of our country is more important to us than making commercial profits and therefore there's a reason for us either to cooperate or to cease competition or to compete in a different way what might takes a little bit more simple than that's a good explanation is I find these smear campaigns and fake news and I was just talking with Kara Swisher on Twitter just pinging back and forth you know either journalists are chasing Twitter and not really doing the original courting or they're being fed stories if this is truly a smear campaign as being fed by a paid dossier then that hurts people when families and that puts corporate interests over the right thing so I think I a personal issue with that that's fake news that's just disinformation but it's also putting corporate inches over over families and people so I just find that to be kind of really weird when you say collateral damage earlier what did you mean by that just part of the campaign you personally what's what's your view okay I think competition which is not focused on on performance and on innovation and on price points that's competition that's hugely destructive its destructive to the fabric of innovation its destructive of course to the reputation of the people who fall in the line of sight of this kind of competition but it's also hugely destructive to national interest Andrae one of the key stories here with the BBC which has holes in it is that the Amazon link which we just talked about but there's one that they bring up that seems to be core in all this and just the connections to Russia can you talk about your career over the career from whether you when you were younger to now your relationship with Russia why is this Russian angle seems to be why they bring into the Russia angle into it they seem to say that c-5 Cable has connections they call deep links personal links into Russia so to see what that so c5 is a venture capital firm have no links to Russia c5 has had one individual who is originally of Russian origin but it's been a longtime Swiss resident and you national as a co investor into a enterprise software company we invested in in 2015 in Europe we've since sold that company but this individual Vladimir Kuznetsov who's became the focus of the BBC's story was a co investor with us and the way in which we structure our investment structures is that everything is transparent so the investment vehicle for this investment was a London registered company which was on the records of Companies House not an offshore entity and when Vladimir came into this company as a co investor for compliance and regulatory purposes we asked him to make his investment through this vehicle which we controlled and which was subject to our compliance standards and completely transparent and in this way he made this investment now when we take on both investors and Co investors we do that subject to very extensive due diligence and we have a very robust and rigorous due diligence regime which in which our operating partners who are leaders of great experience play an important role in which we use outside due diligence firms to augment our own judgment and to make sure we have all the facts and finally we also compare notes with other financial institutions and peers and having done that with Vladimir Kuznetsov when he made this one investment with us we reached the conclusion that he was acting in his own right as an independent angel investor that his left renova many years ago as a career executive and that he was completely acceptable as an investor so that you think that the BBC is making an inaccurate Association the way they describe your relationship with Russia absolutely the the whole this whole issue of the provenance of capital has become of growing importance to the venture capital industry as you and I discussed earlier with many more different sources of capital coming out of places like China like Russia Saudi Arabia other parts of the world and therefore going back again to you the earlier point we discussed compliance and due diligence our critical success factors and we have every confidence in due diligence conclusions that we reached about vladimir quits net source co-investment with us in 2015 so I did some digging on c5 razor bidco this was the the portion of the company in reference to the article I need to get your your take on this and they want to get you on the record on this because it's you mentioned I've been a law above board with all the compliance no offshore entities this is a personal investment that he made Co investment into an entity you guys set up for the transparency and compliance is that true that's correct no side didn't see didn't discover this would my my children could have found this this this company was in a transparent way on the records in Companies House and and Vladimir's role and investment in it was completely on the on the public record all of this was subject to financial conduct authority regulation and anti money laundering and no your client standards and compliance so there was no great big discovery this was all transparent all out in the open and we felt very confident in our due diligence findings and so you feel very confident Oh issue there at all special purpose none whatsoever is it this is classic this is international finance yes sir so in the venture capital industry creating a special purpose vehicle for a particular investment is a standard practice in c-five we focus on structuring those special-purpose vehicles in the most transparent way possible and that was his money from probably from Russia and you co invested into this for this purpose of doing these kinds of deals with Russia well we just right this is kind of the purpose of that no no no this so in 2015 we invested into a European enterprise software company that's a strategic partner of Microsoft in Scandinavian country and we invested in amount of 16 million pounds about at the time just more than 20 million dollars and subsequent in August of that year that Amir Kuznetsov having retired for nova and some time ago in his own right as an angel investor came in as a minority invest alongside us into this investment but we wanted to be sure that his investment was on our control and subject to our compliance standards so we requested him to make his investment through our special purpose vehicle c5 raised a bit co this investment has since been realized it's been a great success and this business is going on to do great things and serve great clients it c5 taking russian money no see if I was not taking Russian money since since the onset of sanctions onboarding Russian money is just impossible sanctions have introduced complexity and have introduced regulatory risk related to Russian capital and so we've taken a decision that we will not and we can't onboard Russian capital and sanctions have also impacted my investigative career sanctions have also completely changed because what the US have done very effectively is to make sanctions a truly global regime and in which ever country are based it doesn't really matter you have to comply with US sanctions this is not optional for anybody on any sanctions regime including the most recent sanctions on Iran so if there are sanctions in place you can't touch it have you ever managed Russian oligarchs money or interests at any time I've never managed a Russian oligarchs money at any point in time I served for a period of a year honest on the board of a South African mining company in which Renova is a minority invest alongside an Australian company called South 32 and the reason why I did this was because of my support for African entrepreneurship this was one of the first black owned mining companies in South Africa that was established with a British investment in 2004 this business have just grown to be a tremendous success and so for a period of a year I offered to help them on the board and to support them as they as they looked at how they can grow and scale the business I have a couple more questions Gabe so I don't know if you wanna take a break you want to keep let's take a break okay let's take a quick break do a quick break I think that's great that's the meat of it great job by the way fantastic lady here thanks for answering those questions the next section I want to do is compliment

>> [Narrator] Live from New York, it's theCube, covering Machine Learning Everywhere. Build your ladder to AI, brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back here to New York City as we continue at IBM's Machine Learning Everywhere, build your ladder to AI, along with Dave Vellante, I'm John Walls. It is now a great honor of ours to have I think probably and arguably the greatest chess player of all time, Garry Kasparov now joins us. He's currently the chairman of the Human Rights Foundation, political activist in Russia as well some time ago. Thank you for joining us, we really appreciate the time, sir. >> Thank you for inviting me. >> We've been looking forward to this. Let's just, if you would, set the stage for us. Artificial Intelligence obviously quite a hot topic. The maybe not conflict, the complementary nature of human intelligence. There are people on both sides of the camp. But you see them as being very complementary to one another. >> I think that's natural development in this industry that will bring together humans and machines. Because this collaboration will produce the best results. Our abilities are complementary. The humans will bring creativity and intuition and other typical human qualities like human judgment and strategic vision while machines will add calculation, memory, and many other abilities that they have been acquiring quickly. >> So there's room for both, right? >> Yes, I think it's inevitable because no machine will ever reach 100% perfection. Machines will be coming closer and closer, 90%, 92, 94, 95. But there's still room for humans because at the end of the day even with this massive power you have guide it. You have to evaluate the results and at the end of the day the machine will never understand when it reaches the territory of diminishing returns. It's very important for humans actually to identify. So what is the task? I think it's a mistake that is made by many pundits that they automatically transfer the machine's expertise for the closed systems into the open-ended systems. Because in every closed system, whether it's the game of chess, the game of gall, video games like daughter, or anything else where humans already define the parameters of the problem, machines will perform phenomenally. But if it's an open-ended system then machine will never identify what is the sort of the right question to be asked. >> Don't hate me for this question, but it's been reported, now I don't know if it's true or not, that at one point you said that you would never lose to a machine. My question is how capable can we make machines? First of all, is that true? Did you maybe underestimate the power of computers? How capable to you think we can actually make machines? >> Look, in the 80s when the question was asked I was much more optimistic because we saw very little at that time from machines that could make me, world champion at the time, worry about machines' capability of defeating me in the real chess game. I underestimated the pace it was developing. I could see something was happening, was cooking, but I thought it would take longer for machines to catch up. As I said in my talk here is that we should simply recognize the fact that everything we do while knowing how we do that, machines will do better. Any particular task that human perform, machine will eventually surpass us. >> What I love about your story, I was telling you off-camera about when we had Erik Brynjolfsson and Andrew McAfee on, you're the opposite of Samuel P. Langley to me. You know who Samuel P. Langley is? >> No, please. >> Samuel P. Langley, do you know who Samuel P. Langley is? He was the gentleman that, you guys will love this, that the government paid. I think it was $50,000 at the time, to create a flying machine. But the Wright Brothers beat him to it, so what did Samuel P. Langley do after the Wright Brothers succeeded? He quit. But after you lost to the machine you said you know what? I can beat the machine with other humans, and created what is now the best chess player in the world, is my understanding. It's not a machine, but it's a combination of machines and humans. Is that accurate? >> Yes, in chess actually, we could demonstrate how the collaboration can work. Now in many areas people rely on the lessons that have been revealed, learned from what I call advanced chess. That in this team, human plus machine, the most important element of success is not the strengths of the human expert. It's not the speed of the machine, but it's a process. It's an interface, so how you actually make them work together. In the future I think that will be the key of success because we have very powerful machine, those AIs, intelligent algorithms. All of them will require very special treatment. That's why also I use this analogy with the right fuel for Ferrari. We will have expert operators, I call them the shepherds, that will have to know exactly what are the requirements of this machine or that machine, or that group of algorithms to guarantee that we'll be able by our human input to compensate for their deficiencies. Not the other way around. >> What let you to that response? Was it your competitiveness? Was it your vision of machines and humans working together? >> I thought I could last longer as the undefeated world champion. Ironically, 1997 when you just look at the game and the quality of the game and try to evaluate the Deep Blue real strengths, I think I was objective, I was stronger. Because today you can analyze these games with much more powerful computers. I mean any chess app on your laptop. I mean you cannot really compare with Deep Blue. That's natural progress. But as I said, it's not about solving the game, it's not about objective strengths. It's about your ability to actually perform at the board. I just realized while we could compete with machines for few more years, and that's great, it did take place. I played two more matches in 2003 with German program. Not as publicized as IBM match. Both ended as a tie and I think they were probably stronger than Deep Blue, but I knew it would just be over, maybe a decade. How can we make chess relevant? For me it was very natural. I could see this immense power of calculations, brute force. On the other side I could see us having qualities that machines will never acquire. How about bringing together and using chess as a laboratory to find the most productive ways for human-machine collaboration? >> What was the difference in, I guess, processing power basically, or processing capabilities? You played the match, this is 1997. You played the match on standard time controls which allow you or a player a certain amount of time. How much time did Deep Blue, did the machine take? Or did it take its full time to make considerations as opposed to what you exercised? >> Well it's the standard time control. I think you should explain to your audience at that time it was seven hours game. It's what we call classical chess. We have rapid chess that is under one hour. Then you have blitz chess which is five to ten minutes. That was a normal time control. It's worth mentioning that other computers they were beating human players, myself included, in blitz chess. In the very fast chess. We still thought that more time was more time we could have sort of a bigger comfort zone just to contemplate the machine's plans and actually to create real problems that machine would not be able to solve. Again, more time helps humans but at the end of the day it's still about your ability not to crack under pressure because there's so many things that could take you off your balance, and machine doesn't care about it. At the end of the day machine has a steady hand, and steady hand wins. >> Emotion doesn't come into play. >> It's not about apps and strength, but it's about guaranteeing that it will play at a certain level for the entire game. While human game maybe at one point it could go a bit higher. But at the end of the day when you look at average it's still lower. I played many world championship matches and I analyze the games, games played at the highest level. I can tell you that even the best games played by humans at the highest level, they include not necessarily big mistakes, but inaccuracies that are irrelevant when humans facing humans because I make a mistake, tiny mistake, then I can expect you to return the favor. Against the machine it's just that's it. Humans cannot play at the same level throughout the whole game. The concentration, the vigilance are now required when humans face humans. Psychologically when you have a strong machine, machine's good enough to play with a steady hand, the game's over. >> I want to point out too, just so we get the record straight for people who might not be intimately familiar with your record, you were ranked number one in the world from 1986 to 2005 for all but three months. Three months, that's three decades. >> Two decades. >> Well 80s, 90s, and naughts, I'll give you that. (laughing) That's unheard of, that's phenomenal. >> Just going back to your previous question about why I just look for some new form of chess. It's one of the key lessons I learned from my childhood thanks to my mother who spent her live just helping me to become who I am, who I was after my father died when I was seven. It's about always trying to make the difference. It's not just about winning, it's about making a difference. It led me to kind of a new motto in my professional life. That is it's all about my own quality of the game. As long as I'm challenging my own excellence I will never be short of opponents. For me the defeat was just a kick, a push. So let's come up with something new. Let's find a new challenge. Let's find a way to turn this defeat, the lessons from this defeat into something more practical. >> Love it, I mean I think in your book I think, was it John Henry, the famous example. (all men speaking at once) >> He won, but he lost. >> Motivation wasn't competition, it was advancing society and creativity, so I love it. Another thing I just want, a quick aside, you mentioned performing under pressure. I think it was in the 1980s, it might have been in the opening of your book. You talked about playing multiple computers. >> [Garry] Yeah, in 1985. >> In 1985 and you were winning all of them. There was one close match, but the computer's name was Kasparov and you said I've got to beat this one because people will think that it's rigged or I'm getting paid to do this. So well done. >> It's I always mention this exhibition I played in 1985 against 32 chess-playing computers because it's not the importance of this event was not just I won all the games, but nobody was surprised. I have to admit that the fact that I could win all the games against these 32 chess-playing computers they're only chess-playing machine so they did nothing else. Probably boosted my confidence that I would never be defeated even by more powerful machines. >> Well I love it, that's why I asked the question how far can we take machines? We don't know, like you said. >> Why should we bother? I see so many new challenges that we will be able to take and challenges that we abandoned like space exploration or deep ocean exploration because they were too risky. We couldn't actually calculate all the odds. Great, now we have AI. It's all about increasing our risk because we could actually measure against this phenomenal power of AI that will help us to find the right pass. >> I want to follow up on some other commentary. Brynjolfsson and McAfee basically put forth the premise, look machines have always replaced humans. But this is the first time in history that they have replaced humans in the terms of cognitive tasks. They also posited look, there's no question that it's affecting jobs. But they put forth the prescription which I think as an optimist you would agree with, that it's about finding new opportunities. It's about bringing creativity in, complementing the machines and creating new value. As an optimist, I presume you would agree with that. >> Absolutely, I'm always saying jobs do not disappear, they evolve. It's an inevitable part of the technological progress. We come up with new ideas and every disruptive technology destroys some industries but creates new jobs. So basically we see jobs shifting from one industry to another. Like from agriculture, manufacture, from manufacture to other sectors, cognitive tasks. But now there will be something else. I think the market will change, the job market will change quite dramatically. Again I believe that we will have to look for riskier jobs. We will have to start doing things that we abandoned 30, 40 years ago because we thought they were too risky. >> Back to the book you were talking about, deep thinking or machine learning, or machine intelligence ends and human intelligence begins, you talked about courage. We need fail safes in place, but you also need that human element of courage like you said, to accept risk and take risk. >> Now it probably will be easier, but also as I said the machine's wheel will force a lot of talent actually to move into other areas that were not as attractive because there were other opportunities. There's so many what I call raw cognitive tasks that are still financially attractive. I hope and I will close many loops. We'll see talent moving into areas where we just have to open new horizons. I think it's very important just to remember it's the technological progress especially when you're talking about disruptive technology. It's more about unintended consequences. The fly to the moon was just psychologically it's important, the Space Race, the Cold War. But it was about also GPS, about so many side effects that in the 60s were not yet appreciated but eventually created the world we have now. I don't know what the consequences of us flying to Mars. Maybe something will happen, one of the asteroids will just find sort of a new substance that will replace fossil fuel. What I know, it will happen because when you look at the human history there's all this great exploration. They ended up with unintended consequences as the main result. Not what was originally planned as the number one goal. >> We've been talking about where innovation comes from today. It's a combination of a by-product out there. A combination of data plus being able to apply artificial intelligence. And of course there's cloud economics as well. Essentially, well is that reasonable? I think about something you said, I believe, in the past that you didn't have the advantage of seeing Deep Blue's moves, but it had the advantage of studying your moves. You didn't have all the data, it had the data. How does data fit into the future? >> Data is vital, data is fuel. That's why I think we need to find some of the most effective ways of collaboration between humans and machines. Machines can mine the data. For instance, it's a breakthrough in instantly mining data and human language. Now we could see even more effective tools to help us to mine the data. But at the end of the day it's why are we doing that? What's the purpose? What does matter to us, so why do we want to mine this data? Why do we want to do here and not there? It seems at first sight that the human responsibilities are shrinking. I think it's the opposite. We don't have to move too much but by the tiny shift, just you know percentage of a degree of an angle could actually make huge difference when this bullet reaches the target. The same with AI. More power actually offers opportunities to start just making tiny adjustments that could have massive consequences. >> Open up a big, that's why you like augmented intelligence. >> I think artificial is sci-fi. >> What's artificial about it, I don't understand. >> Artificial, it's an easy sell because it's sci-fi. But augmented is what it is because our intelligent machines are making us smarter. Same way as the technology in the past made us stronger and faster. >> It's not artificial horsepower. >> It's created from something. >> Exactly, it's created from something. Even if the machines can adjust their own code, fine. It still will be confined within the parameters of the tasks. They cannot go beyond that because again they can only answer questions. They can only give you answers. We provide the questions so it's very important to recognize that it is we will be in the leading role. That's why I use the term shepherds. >> How do you spend your time these days? You're obviously writing, you're speaking. >> Writing, speaking, traveling around the world because I have to show up at many conferences. The AI now is a very hot topic. Also as you mentioned I'm the Chairman of Human Rights Foundation. My responsibilities to help people who are just dissidents around the world who are fighting for their principles and for freedom. Our organization runs the largest dissident gathering in the world. It's called the Freedom Forum. We have the tenth anniversary, tenth event this May. >> It has been a pleasure. Garry Kasparov, live on theCube. Back with more from New York City right after this. (lively instrumental music)

(bouncy electronic music) [Narrator] Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE. Covering InterConnect 2017 brought to you by IBM. >> Hey welcome back everyone, we are live in Las Vegas for IBM InterConnect 2017. This is the CUBE's coverage of IBM's Cloud and data show. I'm John Furrier, with my co-host Dave Vellante. Our next guest is Abby Kearns, Executive Director of Cloud Foundry Foundation. Welcome to the CUBE! >> Welcome, thank you! >> Thanks for joining us, so Cloud Foundry, you're new as the executive role, Sam had moved on to Microsoft? >> Abby: Google. >> Google, I'm sorry, Google, he was formerly at Microsoft, former Microsoft employee, but Google, Google Cloud Next was a recent show. >> Yeah. >> So, you're new. >> I'm new. >> John: To the reins but you're not new, new to the community. >> I've been a part of the community for several years prior to joining the foundation a year ago I was at Pivotal for a couple of years so I've been part of the Cloud Foundry community for several years and it's a technology that's near and dear to my heart and it's a community that I am very passionate about. >> And the emergence of Cloud Foundry if you think about it has really kind of changed the game it's really lifted all the boats, if you will, rising tide floats all boats. IBM uses it, you've got a lot of customers. Just go down the list of the notable folks working with Cloud Foundry. >> Well, look no further than those that are on our board and those that represent the strategic vision around the Cloud Foundry, so IBM, Pivotal, but, Dell EMC, and Cisco and SAP and VMware and Allianz and Swisscom. And of course, Pivotal. I think all of them really bring such a broad perspective to the table. But then broadening beyond that community, our community has grown so much. A lot of people don't realize that Cloud Foundry has only been an open-source project for just a little over two years, so January 2015 marked when it became an official open-source project. Prior to that it was part of Pivotal. And in that little-over-two years, we've grown to nearly 70 members in our community and are just excited to continue to grow and bring more perspectives to the table. >> So what has been the differences, a lot of people have been taking a different approach on for Bluemix, for instance, they have a good core at Cloud Foundry. Is it going the way you guys had thought as a community, that this was the plan all along? Because you see people really kind of making some good stuff out of the Cloud Foundry. Was that part of the plan, this open direction? >> Well I think part of the plan was really coalescing around the single vision of that abstraction And what's the whole vision of Cloud Foundry, it's to allow developers to create code faster. And whatever realm that takes. Our industry is evolving and it's evolving so quickly and exciting, all of these enterprise organizations that are becoming software companies. I mean how exciting is that? As we think about the abstraction that Cloud Foundry can provide for them and the automation it can provide, it allows them to focus on one thing and one thing only, creating code that changes their business. We're really focused myopically on ensuring that developers have the ability to quickly and easily create code and innovate quickly as an organization. >> So on the development side, sometimes standards can go fall down by forcing syntax or forcing certain things. You guys had a different approach, looking back now, what were the key things that were critical for Cloud Foundry to maintain its momentum? >> I think a couple of things. It's a complex distributed system but it is put together amazingly well. Quality was first and foremost, part of its origins. And it's continued to adhere to that quality and that control around the development process and around the release process. So Cloud Foundry as an open-source project is very much a governance by contribution. So we look for those in the organizations and different communities to be part of it and contribute. So we have the full-time committers that are basically doing this all day, every day, and then we have the contributors that are also part of the community providing feedback and value. >> And there was a big testimonial with American Airlines on stage, that's a big win. >> Abby: Yes, it is a big win. >> Give us some color on that deal. >> I can't give you any details on the deal that IBM has-- >> But that's a Cloud Foundry, IBM-- >> But it is Cloud Foundry, yes. >> You guys were part of the Bluemix thing? >> Yes. And American Airlines is a company that I have a lot of history with, They were a customer of mine for many years in the early 2000s, so I'm thrilled to see them innovating and taking advantage of a platform. >> So, help us unpack this conversation that's going on around PaaS, right? >> Some people say, "oh, PaaS is pase," but it's development tools and it's programming and it's a platform that you've created, so what do you make of that conversation? What implications does it have to your strategy and your ecosystem strategy? >> Well, I for one don't like the term PaaS anyway, so I'm happy to say PaaS is pase. Because I do think it's evolved, so when I talk about Cloud Foundry, I talk about it as a Cloud application platform. Because at the end of the day, our goal is to help organizations create code faster. The high degrees of automation, the abstraction that the platform brings to the table, it isn't just a platform, it is an enabler for that development. So we think about what that means, it's, can I create applications faster and do I have a proliferation of services to your ecosystem point that enable applications to grow and to scale and to change the way that organization works. Because it's a technology-enabled business transformation for many of these organizations. >> John: It's app-driven, too, that's the key to success. >> It's app-driven, which is why we talk so much about developers, is because that's the key, if I'm going to become a software company, what does that mean? I am writing code, and that code is changing the way I think about my business and my consumers. >> And the app landscape has certainly changed with UX creativity, but now you've got IoT, there's a real functional integration going on with the analog world going digital, it's like, "Whoa, "I've got all this stuff that's now instrumented "connected to the internet!" IoT, Internet of Things. That's going to be interesting, Cloud has to power that. >> I think it does, because what is IoT reliant on? Applications that take advantage of that data. That's what you're looking to gain, you're looking to have small applications streaming large amounts of data from sensors, be it from cars, or be it from a manufacturing plant, if you're thinking industrial IoT, so Cloud Foundry provides the platform for many of these applications to be developed, created, and scaled at the level that companies like GE, and Siemens, and others are looking to build out and tackle that IoT space. >> It's open, I mean we can all agree that Cloud Foundry's the most open platform to develop applications on, but developers have choices. You're seeing infrastructure as a service, plus you're seeing SAS kind of minus emerge. How should we be thinking about the evolution, you said earlier it evolved, where is it evolving to? Obviously you bet on open, good bet. Other more propriet... I don't even know what open is anymore sometimes (Abby laughs) >> But we can agree that Cloud Foundry's open. But how should we be thinking about the evolution going forward? >> Well that's the beauty of open, right? What is open-source, open-source brings together a diverse set of perspective and background to innovate faster. And that's where we are, we're seeing a lot of technology evolve. I mean, just think about all of the things that evolved the last two years. Where we've had technologies come up, some go down, but there's so much happening right now, because the time is now. For these companies that are trying to develop more applications, or trying to figure out ways to not only develop these applications, but develop them at scale and really grow those out and build those and IoT, and you're getting more data, and we're capturing those data and operationalizing that data and it comes back to one thing. Applications that can take advantage of that. And so I think there's the potential, as we build out and innovate both the ecosystem but the platform will naturally evolve and take advantage of those winds from these organizations that are driving this to scale. >> So scale is the linchpin. >> Abby: Yeah. >> If you think about traditional paths, environments, if I can use that term, they're limited in scale, and obviously simplicity. Is that another way to think about it? >> I think about it this way, the platform enables you to run fast. You're not running fast with scissors. You want to be able to run fast safely. And so it provides that abstraction and those guardrails so you can quickly iterate and develop and deploy code. If I look at what... HCSE as a company. They went from developing an application, it took them 35 people and nine months to create an app, right? And now with Cloud Foundry, they're able to do it with four people and six weeks. It changes the way you work as an organization. Just imagine as you scale that out, what that means. Imagine the changes that can bring in your organization when you're software-centric and you're customer-first and you're bringing that feedback loop in. >> And you guys do a lot of heavy lifting on behalf of the customer, but you're not hardening it to the point where they can't mold it and shape it to what they want is kind of what I'm-- >> No, we want to abstract away and automate as much as possible, the things you care about. Resiliency, auto-scaling, the ability to do security and compliance, because those are things you care about as an enterprise. Let's make that happen for you, but then give the control to the developer to self provision, to scale, to quickly deploy and iterate, do continuous delivery. All of those things that allow you to go from developing an app once a year to developing an app and iterating on that app constantly, all the time. >> So I've been wanting to ask you to kind of take a step back, and look at the community trends right now. PC Open Stack has a trajectory, it's becoming more of an infrastructure, as a service, kind of settling in there. That's gone through a lot of changes. Seeing a lot of growth in IoT, which we talked about. You're starting to see some movement in the open-source community. CNCF has got traction, The Linux Foundation, Cloud Native, you've got the Kubernetes, I call it the Cold War for orchestration going on right now so it's a really interesting time, microservices are booming. This is the holy grail for developers for the next gen. It's going to be awesome, like machine learning, everyone's getting intoxicated on that these days, so super cool things coming down the pike. >> For sure, I think we're in the coolest time. >> What's going on in the communities, is there any movement, is there trends, is there a sentiment among the developer communities that you see that you could... Any patterns developing around what people are gravitating to? >> I think developers want the freedom to create. They want the ability to create applications and see those come to fruition. I think a lot of things that were new and innovative a couple of years ago and even now, are becoming table stakes. For example, five years ago, having a mobile app as a bank was new and interesting and kind of fun. Now, it's table stakes. Are you going to go bank with a bank that doesn't have one? Are you going to bank with a bank that doesn't have it? It becomes table stakes or, who doesn't, if you don't have fraud detection which is basically event driven responses, right? And so you think about what table stakes are and what, as we think about the abstraction moving up, that's really where it's going to get interesting. >> But open-source community, is it going to move to these new ground, what I'm trying to get at is to see what's happening, what's the trend in the developer community. What's hot, what's fashionable. Is there new projects popping up that you could share that you think is cool and interesting? >> Well they're all cool and interesting. >> John: You'd rather not comment. (laughs) >> I think they're all cool and interesting, I think, you know, CNCF is a sister organization underneath The Linux Foundation. >> John: They kind of inherited that from Kub Con though. Kubernetes Con. >> Yeah, I think they're doing interesting things. I think any organizations that's promoting Cloud Native application architecture and the value of that, we all deserve to be part of the same conversation because to your point earlier, a rising tide lifts all boats. And if every organizations is doing Cloud Native application architectures and Cloud Native solutions, it's going to be super interesting. >> We just had STRAD at Duke, we ran our own event last week called Big Data SV, and it's very clear to us that the big data world industry and Cloud are coming together and the forcing function is machine learning, IoT, and then AI is the appeal, that's the big trend that's kind of, puts a mental model around but IoT is driving this data and the Cloud horsepower is forcing this to move faster. It seems to be very accelerated. >> But, it also enables so much, I mean if you can operationalize this data that you're aggregating and turn it into actionable apps that do things for your business, save money, improve logistics, reach your users better and faster, you start to see the change and the shift that that can bring. You have the data married with the apps, married with the in point sensors and all of a sudden this gets to be a really interesting evolution of technology. >> So what's your hundred day plan, well you're in the hundred day plan already. So what's your plan for this year as new Executive Director for Cloud Foundry, what's on the agenda, what's your top three things you're going to chip away at this year for objectives? >> Developers, developers, developers, does that count as top three? >> More, more, more? Increase the developer count? (laughs) >> Just really, reaching out to the developers and ensuring that they're able to be successful in Cloud Foundry. So I think you'll hear more from us in the next couple of weeks about that. But, ensuring-- >> John: The proof points, basically? >> The proof points, but just ensuring they can be successful and ensuring that scale is affable for them, and then really, our summits are even changing. We've actually added developer tracks to our summit, to make them a place not only where you can learn about Cloud Foundry, but also where you can work with other developers and learn from them and learn about specific languages, but also, how to enable those into Cloud Native application architectures and I think our goal this year is to really enrich that development community and build that pipeline and help fill those gaps. >> And celebrate the wins like the American Airlines of the world, and as IBM and others are successful, then it gets to be less... You don't want to have cognitive dissonance as a developer, that's the worst thing, developers want to make sure they're on a good bus with good people. >> You've obviously got some technology titans behind you, IBM the most prominent, I would say, but obviously guys like VMware, and Cisco, and others, but you've also got [Interference] organizations, guys like Allianz, VW, Allstate I think was early-on in the program. >> JPMC, Citibank. >> Yeah, I shouldn't have started, 'cause I know I'd leave some out, but you're the Executive Director, so you have to fill in the gaps. That's somewhat unique, in a consortium like this. Somewhat, but that many is somewhat unique. Is there more traction there? What's their motivation? >> Abby: As a user? >> Yeah. >> Well, to your earlier point, we're an open-source, right? And what's the value, if I'm an enterprise and I'm looking to take advantage of a platform, but also an open-source platform, open-source allows me to be part of that conversation. I can be a contributor, I can be part of the direction, I can influence where it's going and I think that is a powerful sentiment, for many of these organizations that are looking to evolve and become more software-centric, and this is a good way for them to give back and be part of that momentum. >> And Cloud's exploding, more open-source is needed, it's just a great mission. Congratulations on the new job, and good luck this year. We'll keep in touch, and certainly see you at the Cloud Foundry Summit, that's in San Fransisco again this year? >> Santa Clara, June 13th through 15th. >> John: So every year, you guys always have the fire code problem. (laughs) >> Well I think I'm going to go on record now and officially say this, this will be our last year there, which I think everyone's excited about, 'cause I think we're all over Santa Clara right now. (laughs) >> Alright, well, we'll see you there. Abby Kearns, Executive Director of Cloud Foundry Foundation, here inside the CUBE, powering the Cloud, this is the CUBE's coverage of IBM InterConnect 2017. Stay with us, more coverage after this short break. (bouncy electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from Las Vega, it's theCUBE. Covering InterConnect 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back everyone. We are live in Las Vegas where IBM InterConnect 2017. It's theCUBE's coverage of IBM's Cloud Show, Cloud and Data Show. I'm John Furrier, and my Co-Host Dave Vellante. Our next guest is Abby Kearns, Executive Director of Cloud Foundry Foundation. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Welcome, thank you. >> Thanks for joining us. So, Cloud Foundry, you're new as the executive role. Sam had moved on to Microsoft. >> Abby: Google. >> Google, I'm sorry, Google. He was formerly at Microsoft. Former Microsoft employee. But at Google, Google Cloud Next was a recent show. So you're new. >> I'm new. >> John: To the reins, but you're not new in the community. >> I've been a part of the community for several years. Prior to joining the Foundation a year ago, I was at Pivotal for a couple of years. So I've been part of the Cloud Foundry community for several years and it's a technology that's near and dear to my heart. And it's a community that I am very passionate about. >> And the emergence of Cloud Foundry, I think about it, it's really kind of changed the game. It's really lifted all the boats, if you will, rising tide floats all boats. IBM uses it, you've got a lot of customers. Just go down the list of the notable folks working with Cloud Foundry. >> Well, I look no further than those that are on our Board and those that represent the strategic vision around the Cloud Foundry, so IBM, Pivotal, but DellEMC and Cisco and SAP and VMware and Allianz and Swisscom and, you know, of course Pivotal. And I think all of them really bring such a broad perspective to the table. But, then broadening beyond that community, our community has grown so much since. So, a lot of people don't realize that Cloud Foundry has only been an open source project for just a little over two years. So, January 2015 marked when it become an official open source project. Prior to that it was part of Pivotal. And in that a little over two years, we've grown to nearly 70 members in our community. And our disk x high continued to grow, and bring more perspectives to the table. >> So, what has been the differences. A lot of people have taken a different approach, on. For Bluemix, for instance, they have good core at Cloud Foundry. Is it going the way you guys had thought, as a community that this was the plan all along? Because you see people really kind of making some good stuff out of the Cloud Foundry. Was that part of the plan? This open direction? >> Well, I think part of the plan was really coalescing around a single vision of that abstraction. And what's the whole vision of Cloud Foundry? It's to make, allow developers to create code faster. In whatever realm that takes. And our industry is evolving and it's evolving so quickly, and exciting, all of these organizations. These enterprise organizations that are becoming software companies. And how, I mean, how exciting is that? As we think about the abstraction that Cloud Foundry can provide for them, and the automation it can provide and allows them to focus on one thing, and one thing only, creating code that changes their business. So, we're really focused myopically on ensuring the developers have the ability to quickly and easily create code and innovate quickly as an organization. >> So, on the development side. I mean sometimes standards can go, fall down by forcing syntax or, you know, forcing certain things. You guys had a different approach. Looking back now, what were the key things that were critical for Cloud Foundry to maintain its momentum? >> I think a couple of things. You know, obviously, it's a complex distributed system, but it's put together amazingly well. Quality was first and foremost, part of its origins. And it's continued to adhere to that quality and that control around the development process, and around the release process. So, Cloud Foundry as an open source project is very much a governance by contribution. So we look for those in the organizations and different communities to be part of it, and contribute and so we have the full time committers. That are basically doing this all day, every day. And we have the contributors that are also part of the community providing feedback and value. >> And there was a big testimonial of American Air Lines on stage. That's a big win. >> Abby: Yes, it is a big win. >> John: Give some color on that deal. >> I can't give you any details on the deal that IBM has. >> But that's a Cloud Foundry, IBM. >> But it is Cloud Foundry, yes. >> You guys were part of the Bluemix thing. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And American Airlines is a company that I have a lot of history with. They were a customer of mine for many years in the early 2000s, so I'm thrilled to see them innovating, and taking advantage of a platform. >> So, help us unpack this conversation that's going on around PaaS, right. Some people say, oh PaaS is passe. But, it's development tools and it's programming. And it's a platform that you've created. So, what do you make of that conversation? What is it, what implications does it have to your strategy and your ecosystem strategy? >> Well, I for one don't like the term Paas anyways. So, I'm happy to say, PaaS is passe. Because I do think it's evolved. So, when I talk about Cloud Foundry, I talk about it as a cloud application platform. Because at the end of the day, our goal is to help organizations create code faster. You know, the high degrees of automation, the abstraction that the platform brings to the table, isn't just a platform, it is an enabler for that development. So we think about what that means. It's can I create applications faster? Do I have proliferation of services, to your ecosystem point, that enable those applications to be, to grow and to scale, and to change the way that organization works? Because it's a technology enabled business transformation for many of these organizations. >> John: It's app driven too, that's the key to success. >> It's app driven, which is why we talk so much about developers, is because that's the key. If I'm going to become a software company, what does that mean? I am writing code, and that code is changing the way I think about my business, and my consumers. >> And the app landscape has certainly changed with UX creativity, but now you've got IoT, there's a real functional integration going on with the analog world going digital. It's like whoa, I've gotten all this stuff that's now instrumented connected to the internet. IoT, Internet of Things. That's going to be interesting. Cloud has to power that. >> I think it does, because what is IoT reliant on? Applications that take advantage of that data. I mean that's what you're looking to gain. You're looking to have small applications streaming large amounts of data from sensors, be it from cars or be it from a manufacturing plant, if you're thinking industrial IoT. So Cloud Foundry provides the platform for many of these applications to be developed, created, and scaled. At the level that companies like GE and Siemens and others are looking to build out and tackle that IoT space. >> It's open. I mean we can all agree that Cloud Foundry's the most open platform to develop applications on. But, you're. Developers have choices. >> Yeah. >> You're seeing, you know, infrastructure as a service, plus, and you're seeing, SaaS kind of minus emerge. How should we be thinking about the evolution. You said earlier it evolved. Where is it evolving to? Obviously you've bet on open. Good bet, all right. Other, more proprietary. I don't even know what open is anymore, sometimes. (laughter) But, we can agree that Cloud Foundry is open. >> We're open. >> But how should we be thinking about the evolution going forward? >> Well, that's the beauty of open, right. Like, what is open source? Open source brings together a diverse set of perspectives, and background to innovate faster. And that's where we are. We're seeing a lot of technology evolve. I mean, just think about all the things that have evolved in the last two years. Where we've had technologies come up, some go down, but there is so much happening right now, because the time is now. For these companies that are trying to develop more applications and are trying to figure out ways not only to develop these applications, but develop them as scale, and really grow those out and build those, and IoT, and you're getting more data. We're having, capturing those data, and operationalizing that data. And it comes back to one thing. Applications that can take advantage of that. And so I think there is the potential as we build out and innovate both the ecosystem, but the platform will naturally evolved and take advantage of those wins from these organizations that are driving this to scale. >> So scale is the lynch pin, right? And if you think about traditional PaaS environments, if I can use that term, they're limited in scale and obviously simplicity. Is that another way to think about it? >> Well, I think the platform. I think about it this way. The platform enables you to run fast. You know, you're not running fast with scissors. You want to be able to run fast safely. So, it provides that abstraction and those guardrails so you can quickly iterate and develop and deploy code. If I look at what let's do HCSC is a company. They went from developing an application. It took them 35 people and nine months to create an app, right? Now, with Cloud Foundry, they're able to do it with four people in six weeks. It changes the way you work as an organization. Now, just imagine as you scale that out, what that means. And imagine the changes that can bring in your organization. When you're software centric, and you're customer first, and you're bringing that feedback loop in. >> Now, you guys do a lot of heavy lifting on behalf of the customer, but you're not hardening it. Hardening to the point where they can't mold it and shape it to what they want. That's kind of what I'm. >> No, we want to give. We want to abstract away and automate as much as possible for things you care about. Resiliency, auto-scaling, the ability to do security and compliance, 'cause those are things you care about as an enterprise. But, let's get that, let's make that happen for you, but then give the control to the developer to self-provision, to scale, to completely deploy and iterate. Do continuous delivery. All of those things that allow you to go from developing an app once a year to developing an app and iterating on that app constantly all the time. >> So Abby, I want to ask you, kind of take a step back. And look at the community trends right now. You see Open Stack has trajectory, it's becoming more an infrastructure as a service. Settling in there. That's gone through a lot of changes. Seeing a lot of growth in IoT which we talked about. You starting to see some movement in the open source community, CNCF has got traction, the Linux Foundation, Cloud native you've got Kubernetes. I call it the Cold War for orchestration, you know, going on right now, and it's. So it's really interesting time. Microservices are booming. This is the Holy Grail for developers for the next gen. It's going to be awesome. Machine learning. Everyone's getting intoxicated on that these days. So, super cool things coming down the pike. >> For sure, I think we're in the coolest time. >> What's going on in the communities? Is there any movement, is there trends, and is there a sentiment among the developer communities that you see that you could. Any patterns developing around what people are gravitating to? >> I think developers want the freedom to create. They want the ability to create applications and see those come to fruition. And I think. I think a lot of things that were new and innovative a couple of years ago, and even now, are becoming table stakes. For example, five years ago, having a mobile app as a bank was new and interesting and kind of fun. Now, it's table stakes. Are you going to go bank with a bank that doesn't have one? Are you going to bank with a bank that doesn't have it? It becomes table stakes. Or who doesn't, if you don't have fraud detection, which is basically event driven responses, right. So, you think about what table stakes are, and what, as we think about the abstraction moving up, that's really where it's going to get interesting. >> Yeah, but open source communities are going to move to these new ground. What I'm trying to get at is to see what's happening, what's the trend in the developer community? What's hot, what's fashionable? Is there new projects popping up that you could share that you think is cool and interesting? >> Well, they're all cool and interesting. >> John: You'd rather not comment. >> (laugh) I think they're all cool and interesting. I think you know, CNCF is a sister organization underneath the Linux Foundation. I, you know. >> John: They kind of inherit that from KubeCon, Kubernetes Con. >> Yeah, I think they're doing interesting things. I think any organization that's promoting cloud native application architecture and the value of that, you know, we all deserve to be part of the same conversation, because to your point earlier, a rising tide lifts all boats. And if every organization is doing cloud native application architectures, and cloud native solutions, it's going to be super interesting. >> I mean we certainly were just at Strata Hadoop, we ran our own event last week called Big Data SV, and it's very clear to us that the big data world and industry and cloud are coming together, and the forcing function is machine learning, IoT and then AI is the, you know, appeal. That's the big trend that kind of puts a mental model around it. But, IoT is driving this data and the cloud horsepower is forcing this to move faster. It seems to be very accelerated. >> But, it also enables so much. I mean, if you can operationalize this data that you're aggregating and turn it into actionable apps that do things for your business, save money, improve logistics, reach your users better and faster, you start to see the change and the shift that that can bring. You have the data married with the apps married with the endpoint sensors, and all of the sudden, this gets to be a really interesting evolution of technology. >> All right, so what's your 100 day plan. Well, you're already in a 100 day plan already. So what's your plan for this year? As new Executive Director for Cloud Foundry, what's on the agenda, what's your top three thing you're going to chip away at this year for objectives? >> Developers, developers, developers. Does that count as top three? >> More, more, more. (laughter) Increase of developer count. >> Just really, reaching out to developers and ensuring that they're able to be successful in Cloud Foundry. So I think you'll hear more from us in the next couple of weeks about that. But, >> John: So proof points basically. >> The proof points, but just ensuring they can be successful. Ensuring that scale is affable for them. And then really our summits are even changing. We have actually added developer tracks to our summits to make them a place not only where you can learn about Cloud Foundry, but also where you can work with other developers and learn from them, and learn about specific languages. But also, how to enable those into cloud native application architecture. And I think our goal this year was to really enrich that development community, and build that pipeline and help fill those gaps. >> And celebrate the wins like American Airlines of the world, and as IBM and others are successful, then it gets to be less. You don't want to have cognitive dissonance as a developer, that's the worst thing that developers want to make sure they're on a good bus. To you know, with good people. >> Well, you've got, you've obviously got some technology titans behind you. IBM, you know, the most prominent, I would say. But obviously, guys like VMware and Cisco and others, but you're also got a number of practitioner organization. Guys like Allianz. >> Abby: Allianz, yeah. >> VW, Allstate I think was early on in the program. >> JPMC, City Bank. >> Yeah, I don't want to. I shouldn't have started, 'cause I know I'd leave some out. (laughter) You're the Executive Director, so you have to fill in the gaps. But so, that's somewhat unique in a consortium like this. Somewhat, but that many is somewhat unique. Is there more traction there? What's their motivation in your. >> Abby: As a user? >> Yeah. >> Well, to your other point. We're an open source, right. What's the value? Me, if I'm an enterprise, and I'm looking to take advantage of a platform, but also an open source platform. Open source allows me to be part of that conversation. I could be a contributor, I could be part of the direction. I can influence where it's going. And I think that is a powerful sentiment for many of these organizations that are looking to evolve and become more software-centric, and this is a good way for them to give back and be part of that momentum. >> Yeah, and cloud's exploding. More open source is needed. It's just a great, great mission. Congratulations on the new job, and good luck this year. We'll keep in touch. >> Thank you. >> John: And certainly see you at the Cloud Foundry Summit. That's in San Francisco again this year? >> Santa Clara. June 13th through 15th. >> So every year you guys always have the fire code problem. (laughter) >> Well, I think, and I'm going to go on record now, and officially say this, this will be our last year there. Which I think everyone's excited about, because I think we're all over Santa Clara right now. (laughter) >> All right, well we'll see you there. Abby Kearns, Executive Director of Cloud Foundry Foundation. Here inside theCUBE, power in the cloud. This is theCUBE's coverage of IBM InterConnect 2017. Stay with us, more coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Silicon Valley, it's the Cube. Covering Google Cloud Next 17. (ambient music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live in Palo Alto for a special two days of coverage of Google Next 2017 events in San Francisco. Sold out, 10,000 plus people. Yeah, really, an amazing turn of events. Amazon Web Services Reinvent had 36,000, Google's nipping at their heels, although different, we're going to break down the differences with Google versus Amazon because they're really two different things and again, this is Cube coverage here in Palo Alto studio, getting reaction. Sponsored by Intel, thanks, Intel, for allowing us to continue the wall-to-wall coverage of the key events in the tech industry. Our next guest is Val Bercovici who's the boardmember of the Cloud Native Compute Foundation, boardmember. >> That's right. >> Welcome back, you were here last week from Mobile World Congress, great to see you. Silicon contributor, what your reaction to the Google keynote, Google news? Not a lot of news, we saw the SAP, that was the biggest news and the rest were showcasing customers, most of the customers were G Suite customers. >> Yeah, exactly. So, I would say my first reaction is bit of a rough keynote, you know, there's definitely not as quit as much polish as Microsoft had in their heyday and of course, Amazon nowadays in the Cloud era. But what's interesting to me is there's the whole battle around empathy right now. So, the next gen developers and the Clouderati talk about user empathy and that means understanding the workflow of the user and getting the user to consume more of your stuff, you know, Snapchat gets user empathy for the millennial generation but anybody else. Facebook as well. So, you see Google, we emphasize, even the Google Twitter account, it emphasizes developer productivity and they have pretty strong developer empathy. But what AWS has, Amazon with AWS is enterprise empathy, right, they really understand how to package themselves and make themselves more consumable right now for a lot of mainstream enterprises, they've been doing this for three, four years at their Reinvent events now. Whereas Google is just catching up. They've got great developer empathy but they're just catching up on enterprise empathy. Those are the main differences I see. >> Yeah, I think that's an important point, Val, great, great point, I think Amazon certainly has, and I wrote this in my blog post this morning, getting a lot of reaction from that, actually, and some things I want to drill down on the network and security side. Some Google folks DMing me we're going to do that. But really, Amazon's lead is way out front on this. But the rest, you know, call 'em IBM, not in any particular, IBM, Oracle, Google, SAP, others, put Salesforces, we're talking Sass and Adobe, they're all in this kind of pack. It's like a NASCAR, you know, pack and you don't know who's going to slimshot around and get out there. But they all have their own unique use cases, they're using their own products to differentiate. We're hearing Google and again, this is a red flag for me because it kind of smells like they're hiding the ball. G Suite, I get the workplace productivity is a Cloud app, but that's not pure Cloud conversations, if you look at the Gartner, Gartner's recent, last report which I had a chance to get a peek at, there's no mention of Sassifications, Google G Suite's not in there, so the way Cloud is strictly defined doesn't even include Sass. >> Yeah. >> If you're going to include Sass, then you got to include Salesforce in that conversation or Adobe or others. >> Exactly. >> So, this is kind of an optical illusion in my mind. And I think that's something that points to Google's lack of traction on customers in the enterprise. >> This is where behind the scenes, Kubernetes, is so important and why I'm involved with the the CNCF. If anything, the first wave of Clouded option particularly by enterprise was centered around the VM model. And you know, infrastructure's a service based on VMs, Amazon, AWS is the king of that. What we're seeing right now is developers in particular that are developing the next generation of apps, most of them are already on our phones and our tablets and our houses and stuff, which is, you know, all these Echo-style devices. That is a container-based architecture that these next gen applications are based on. And so, Kubernetes, in my mind, is really nothing more than Google's attempt to create as much of a container-based ecosystem at scale so that the natural home for container-based apps will be GCP as opposed to AWS. That's the real long term play in why Google's investing so heavily in Kubernetes. >> Is that counterintuitive? Is that a good thing? I mean, it sounds like they're trying to change the goalpost, if you will, to change the game because we had Joe Arnold on, the founder of Swiftstack and you know, ultimately, you know, Clouds are Clouds and inter-Clouding and multi-Cloud is important. Does Kubernete actually help the industry? Or is that more Google specific in your mind? >> I think it will help the industry but the industry itself is moving so rapidly, we're seeing server-less right now and functions of service, and so, I think the landscape is shifting away from what we would think of as either VM or container-based infrastructure service towards having the right abstractions. What I'm seeing is that, really, even the most innovative enterprises today don't really care about their per minute or per hour cost for a cycle of computer, a byte of, you know, network transferred or stored. They care about big table, big quarry, the natural language processing, visual search, and a whole category of these AI based applications that they want to base their own new revenue-generating products and services based on. So, it's abstraction now as a new battlefield. AWS brings that cult of modularity to it, they're delivering a lot of cool services that are very high level Lambda centered based on really cool modularity, whereas Google's doing it, which is very, very elegant abstraction. It's at the developer level, at the technical level, that's what the landscape is at right now. >> Are you happy with Google's approach because I think Google actually doesn't want to be compared to AWS in a way. I mean, from what I can see from the keynote... >> Only by revenue. (laughs) >> Well, certainly, they're going to win that by throwing G Suite on it but, I mean, this is, again, a philosophy game, right? I mean, Andy Jassy is very customer focused, but they don't have their own Sass app, except for Amazon which they don't count on the Cloud. So, their success is all about customers, building on Amazon. Google actually has its own customer and they actually include that in, as does Microsoft with Office 365. >> Yeah, that's the irony, is if we go back to enterprise empathy I think it's Microsoft has that legacy of understanding the enterprise better than all the others. And they're beginning to leverage that, we're definitely seeing, as you're sliding comfortably to a number two position behind AWS, but it really does come back to, you know, are you going to lead with a propeller head lead in technology which Google clearly has, they've got some of the most superior technology, we were rattling off some the speeds and feeds that one of their product managers shared with you this morning. They've had amazing technology, that's unquestioned. But they do have also is this reputation of almost flying in rarefied air when it comes to enterprises. >> What do you mean by that? >> What I mean by that is that most enterprise IT organizations, even the progressive ones, have a hard time relating to Google technology. It's too far out there, it's too advanced, in some cases, they just can't understand it. They've never been trained in college courses on it or even post-grad courses on it. MBA is older than three years old, don't even reference the Cloud. So, there's a lot of training, a lot of knowledge that has to be, you know, conducted on the enterprise side. AWS is packaged, that technology there is the modularity in such a way that's more consumable. Not perfect, but more consumable than any other Cloud render and that's why, with an early head start, they've got the biggest enterprise traction today. >> Yeah, I mean, and I'm really bullish on Google, I love the company, I've been following them since '98, a lot of friends here at Palo Alto, a lot of Googlers living in my neighborhood, they're all around us. Larry Page, seen him around town. Great, great company and very, always been kind of like an academic, speed of academic. Very strong, technically, and that is, clearly, they're playing that card, "We have the technology." So, I would just say that, to counter that argument would be if Google, I'm Google, I'm on the team, the guy in green and you know, lookit, what I want to do is, we want to be the intel for the Cloud. So, the hard and top is we don't really care if people are trained, should be so easy to use, training doesn't matter. So, I mean, that's really more of an arrogant approach, but I don't think Google's being arrogant in the Cloud. I think that ship has sailed, I think Google has kind of been humbled in the sense, in recognizing that the enterprise is hard, they're checking the boxes. They have a partner program. >> Yeah, you're right, I mean, if you take a look at their customers today, you've got Spotify, and Snap, and Evernote, and you know, Pokemon Go and Niantic, all of the leading edge technology companies that have gone mainstream that are, you know, startup oriented Snap, of course. They're on Google Cloud. But that's not enough, you know, the enterprise, I did a seminar just last week promoting Container World with Jim Forge from ADP. The enterprise is not homogeneous, the enterprise is complicated. The L word legacy is all over, what they have to budget and plan for. So, the enterprise is just a lot more complicated than Google will acknowledge right now. And I believe if they were to humanize some of their advanced technology and package it and price it in such a way that AWS, you know, where they're seeing success, they'll accelerate their inevitable sort of leap to being one of those top three contenders. >> So, I'm just reading some of my, I'm putting together because for the Google folks, I'm going to interview them, just prepping for this, but just networking alone, isolating Cloud resources. That's hard, right? So, you know, virtual network in the Cloud, Google's got the virtual network. You get multiple IP addresses, for instance, ability to move network interfaces and IPs between instances, and AS networking support. Network traffic logging, virtual network peering, manage NAT gateways, subnet level filtering, IP V stick support, use any CIDR including RC 1918. Multiple network interface instances, I mean, this is complicated! (laughs) It's not easy so, you know, I think the strategy's going to be interesting to see how, does Google go into the point to point solution set, or they just say, "This is what we got, take it or leave it," and try to change the game? >> That's where they've been up until now and I don't think it's working because they have very formidable competitors that are not standing still. So, I think they're going to have to keep upping their game, again, not in terms of better technology but in terms of better packaging, better accessibility to their technology. Better trust, if you will, overseas. Cloud is a global game, it's not US only. And trust is so critical, there's a lot of skepticism in Europe today with the latest Wikileaks announcements, or Asia Today around. Any American based Cloud provider truly being able to isolate and protect my citizen's data, you know, within my borders. >> I think Google Cloud has one fatal flaw that I, looking at all the data, is that and the analysis that we've been looking at with Bookie Bontine and our research is that there's one thing that jumps out at me. I mean, the rest are all, I look at as, you know, Google's got such great technologies, they can move up fast, they can scale up to code. But the one thing that's interesting is their architecture, the way they handle their architecture is they can't let customers dictate data where data's stored. That is a huge issue for them. And if, to your point, if a user in Germany is using an app and it's got to stay in Germany. >> This is back to the empathy disconnect, right? As an abstraction layer for a developer, what I want is exactly what Google offers. I don't want to care as a developer where the bits and bytes are stored, I want this consistent, uniform API, I want to do cool stuff with the data. The operation side, particularly within legal parameters, regulatory parameters, you know, all sorts of other costs and quality assurance parameters, they really care about where that data is stored, and that's where having more enterprise empathy, and their thinking, and their offerings, and their pricing, and their packaging will leapfrog Google to where they want to be today. >> Val Bercovici, great analysis, I mean, I would totally agree just to lock that in, their developer empathy is so strong. And their operational one needs to be, they got a blind spot there where they got to work on that. And this is interesting because people who don't know Google are very strong operations, it's not like they don't have any ops chops. (Val laughs) They're absolutely in the five nines, they are awesome operations. But they've been operations for themselves. >> Exactly. >> So, that's the distinction you're getting at, right? >> Absolutely. >> Okay, so the next question I got to ask you is back to the developer empathy, 'cause I think it's a really big opportunity for Google. So, pointing out the fatal flaw in my opinions in the data locality thing. But I think the opportunity for Google to change the game, using the developer community opportunity because you mentioned the Kubernetes. There is a huge, open source, I don't want to say transformation but an evolution to the next generation, you're starting to see machine learning and AI start to tease out the leverage of not just data now. Data's become so massive now, you have data sets. That can be addressable and be treated like software programs. So, data as code becomes a new dynamic with AI. So, with AI, with open source, you're seeing a lot of activity, CNCF, the Cloud Native Compute Foundation, folks should check that out, that's an amazing group, analytics foundation. This is an awesome opportunity for Google to use Kubernetes as saying, "Hey, we will make orchestration of application workloads." >> Absolutely. >> This is something, Amazon's been great with open source, but they don't get a lot of love... >> Amazon has a blind spot on containers, let's not, you know, let's not call, you know, let's call it the speed of speed, let's not, you know, beat around the bush, they do have a blind spot around containers. It is something they strategically have to get a hold of, they've got some really interesting proprietary offerings. But it's not a natural home for a Docker workflow, it's not a natural home for a Kubernetes workflow yet. And it's something they have to work on and AI as a use case could not be more pertinent to business today because it's that quote, you know, "The future is here "but unevenly distributed." That's exactly where AI is today, the businesses that are figuring it out are really leaping ahead of their competitors. >> We're getting some great tweets, my phone's blowing up. Val, you've got great commentary. I want to bring up, so, I've been kind of over the top with the comment that I've been making. It's maybe mischaracterized but I'll say it again. There seems to be a Cold War going on inside the communities between, as Kubernetes have done, we've seen doc, or we've seen Docker Containers be so successful in this service list, server list vision, which is absolutely where Cloud Native needs to be in that notion of, you know, separating out fiscal gear and addressability, making it completely transparent, full dev ops, if you will. To who's going to own the orchestration and where does it sit on the stack? And with Kubernetes, to me, is interesting is that it tugs at some sacred cows in the container world. >> Yes. >> And it opens up the notion of multi-Cloud. I mean, assume latency can be solved at some point, but... >> It's actually core religion, what impressed me about he whole Kubernetes community, and community is its greatest strength, by the way, is the fact that they had a religion on multi-Cloud from day one. It wasn't about, "We'll add it later "'cause we know it's important," it's about portability and you know, even Docker lent that to the community. Portability is just a number one priority and now portability, at scale, across multiple Clouds, dynamically orchestrated, not through, you know, potential for human error, human interventions we saw last week. That the secret sauce there to stay. >> I think not only is, a Cold War is a negative connotation, but I think it's an opportunity to be sitting in the sun, if you will, on the beach with a pina colada because if you take the Kubernetes trend that's got developer empathy with portability, that speaks to what developers want, I want to have the ability to write code, ship it up to the network, and have it integrate in nicely and seamlessly so, you know, things can self-work and do all that. And AI can help in all those things. Connecting with operational challenges. So, what is, in your mind, that intersection? Because let's just say that Kubernetes is going to develop a nice trajectory which it has now and continues to be a nice way to galvanize a community around orchestration, portability, etc. Where does that intersect with some of the challenges and needs for operational effectiveness and efficiency? >> So, the dirtiest secret in that world is data gravity, rigtht? It's all well and fine to have workload portability across, you know, multiple instances and a cluster across multiple Clouds, so to speak. But data has weight, data has mass and gravity, and it's very hard to move particularly at scale. Kubernetes only in the last few releases with a furious pace in evolution, one four, one five, has a notion of provisioning persistent volumes, this thing they affectionately called pet sets that are not a stateful sets, I love that name. >> Cattle. >> Exactly. (laughs) So, Google is waking up and Kubernetes, I should say, in particular is waking up to the whole notion of managing data is really that last mile problem of Cloud portability and operational maturity. And planning around data gravity and overcoming where you can data gravity through meta-operational procedures is where this thing is going to really take off. >> I think that's where Google, I like Google's messaging, I like their posture on machine learning AI, I think that's key. But Amazon has been doing AI, they've got machine learning as a service, they've had Kineses for a while. In fact, Redshift and Kineses were their fastest growing services before Aurora became the big thing that they had. So, I think, you know, they're interested in the jets, with the trucks, and the snowmobile stuff. So I think certainly, Amazon's been doing that data and then rolling in as some sort of AI. >> And they've been humanizing it better, right? I can relate to some of Amazon's offering and sometimes I have it in the house. You know, so, the packaging and just the consumerability of these Amazon services today is ahead of where Google is and Google arguably has the superior technology. >> Yeah, and I think, you know, I was laying out my analysis of Google versus Amazon but I think it's not fair to try to compare them too much because Google is just making their opening moves on the chessboard. Because they had Diane Green, got to give her credit, she's really starting behind. And that's been talked about but they are serious, they're going to get there. The question is what does an enterprise need to do? So, your advice to enterprise would be what? Stick with the use cases that are either Google specific apps or Cloud Native, where do you go, how do you...? >> I would say to remember the lock-in days of the Linux vendors and even Microsoft in their heyday and definitely think multi-Cloud, you know, Cloud first is fine. But think, we need data first in a Cloud before I think a particular Cloud first. Always keep your options open, seek the highest levels of abstraction, particularly as you're innovating early on and fast failing in the Cloud. Don't go low right away, go low later on when you're operationalizing and scaled and looking to squeeze efficiencies out of a new product or service. >> Don't go low, you mean don't go low in the stack? >> Don't go low in the stack, exactly. Start very high in the stack. >> What would be an example? >> Lambda, you know, taking advantage of, if we bring in Kineses, IOT workflows, all sorts of sensor data coming in from the Edge. Don't code that for efficiency day one and switch to Kafka or something else that's more sophisticated, but keep it really high level as events triggering off, whether it's the IOTICK in the sensor inputs or whether it's S3 events, Dynamo, DB events. Write your functions that are very, very high level. >> Yeah. >> Get the workflows right. Pay a bit more money up front, pay premium for the fast... >> Well, there's also Bootstraps and the Training Channel Digimation, so, with Google, pick some things that are known out there. But you mentioned IOT and one of the things I was kind of disappointed in the keynote today, there wasn't much talk about IOT. You're not seeing IOT in the Google story. >> That may come up in tomorrow's keynote, it may come up tomorrow in a more technical context. But you're right, it's an area both Agar and AWS have a monster of a lead right now, as they've had really good SDKs out there to be able to create workflows without even being an expert in some of the devices that you know, you might own and maintain. >> Google's got some differentiation, they've got something, I'll highlight one that I like that I think is really compelling. Tensor flow. Tensor flow as got a lot of great traction and then Intel is writing chips with their Skylake product that actually runs much faster silicon... >> What was that, Nvidia? You know, it's a GPU game as much as a CPU game when it comes to machine learning. And it's just... >> What does that mean for you? I mean, that's exciting, you smile on that, I get geeked out on that because if you think about that, if you can have a relationship between the silicon and software, what does it mean from an impact standpoint? Do you think that's going to be a good accelerant for the game? >> Massive accelerant, you know, and this is where we get into sort of more rarefied air with Elon Musk's quote around the fact we'll need universal income for society. There a lot of static tasks that are automated today. There's more and more dynamic tasks now that these AI algorithms, through machine learning, can be trained to conduct in a very intelligent manner. So, more and more task based work all over the world, including in a robotic context but also call centers, stock brokerage, for example, it's been demonstrated that AI ML algorithms are superior to humans nine times out of ten in terms of recommending stocks. So, there's a lot of white collars, while it's blue collared work that just going to be augmented and then eliminated with these technologies and the fact that you have major players, economies at scales such as Intel and Nvidia and so forth accelerating that, making it affordable, fast, low power in certain edge context. That's, you know, really good for the industry. >> So, day one of two days of coverage here with Google, just thoughts real quick on what Google needs to do to really conquer the enterprise and really be credible, viable, successful, number two, or leader in the enterprise? >> I'm a big fan, you know, I've had personal experiences with fast following as opposed to leading and innovating sometimes in terms of getting market traction. I think they should unabashedly, unashamedly examine what Microsoft or what Amazon are doing right in the Cloud. Because you know, simple things like conducting a bit more of a smooth keynote, Google doesn't seem to have mastered it yet, right now in the Cloud space. And it's not rocket science, but shamelessly copying what works, shamelessly copying the packaging and the humanization that some of the advanced technologies that Amazon and Microsoft have done in particular. And then applying their technical superiority, you know, their uptime availability advantages, their faster networks, their strong consistency which is a big deal for developers across their regions. Emphasizing their strengths after they package and make their technology more consumable. As opposed to leading where the tech specs. >> And you have a lot of experience in the enterprise, table stakes out there that are pretty obvious that they need to check the boxes on, and would be what? >> A very good question, I would say, first and foremost, you really have to focus on more, you know, transparent pricing. Think something that is a whole black art in terms of optimizing your AWS usage in this industry that's formed around that. I think Google has and they enact blogs advertising a lot of advantages they have in the granularity, in the efficiency of their auto scaling up and down. But businesses don't really map that, they don't think of that first even though it can save them millions of dollars as they do move to Cloud first approaches. >> Yeah and I think Google got to shake that academic arrogance, in a way, that they've had a reputation for. Not that that's a bad thing, I'll give you an example, I love the fact that Google leads a lot of price performance on many levels in the Cloud, yet their SLAs are kind of wonky here and there. So, it's like, okay, enterprises like SLAs. You got to nail that. And then maybe keep their price a little high here, it can make more money, but... So, you were saying, is that enterprise might not get the fact that it's such a good deal. >> It's like enterprise sales 101, you talk about, you know, the operational benefits but you also talk about financial benefits and business benefits. Catching into those three contexts in terms of their technical superiority would do them a world of good as they seek more and more enterprise opportunities. >> Alright, Val Bercovici, CTO, also CTO, and also on the board of the Cloud Native Compute Foundation known as CNCF, a newly formed organization, part of the Linux Foundation. Really looking at the orchestration, looking at the containers, looking at Kubernetes, looking at a whole new world of app enablement. Val, thanks for the company, great to see you. Turning out to be guest contributor here on the Cube studio, appreciate his time. This is the Cube, two days of live coverage. Hope to have someone from Google on the security and network side coming in and calling in, we're going to try to set that up, a lot of conversations happening around that. Lot of great stuff happening at Google Next, we've got all the wall-to-wall coverage, reporters on the ground in San Francisco as well as analysts. And of course, in studio reaction here in Palo Alto. We'll be right back. (ambient music)