(upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage here at re:MARS. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. It's the event where it's part of the "re:" series: re:MARS, re:Inforce, re:Invent. MARS stands for machine learning, automation, robotics, and space. And a lot of conversation is all about AI machine learning. This one's about AI and business transformation. We've got Stepan Pushkarev CTO, CEO, Co-Founder of Provectus. Welcome to theCUBE. And Russ Lamb, eCommerce Retail Data Engineering Lead at PepsiCo, customer story. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Great to be here, John. >> Yeah, thanks for having us. >> I love the practical customer stories because it brings everything to life. This show is about the future, but it's got all the things we want, we love: machine learning, robotics, automation. If you're in DevOps, or you're in data engineering, this is the world of automation. So what's the relationship? You guys, you're a customer. Talk about the relationship between you guys. >> Sure, sure. Provectus as a whole is a professional services firm, premier, a AWS partner, specializing in machine learning, data, DevOps. PepsiCo is our customer, our marquee customer, lovely customer. So happy to jointly present at this re:Invent, sorry, re:MARS. Anyway, Russ... >> I made that mistake earlier, by the way, 'cause re:Invent's always on the tip of my tongue and re:MARS is just, I'm not used to it yet, but I'm getting there. Talk about what are you guys working together on? >> Well, I mean, we work with Provectus in a lot of ways. They really helped us get started within our e-commerce division with AWS, provided a lot of expertise in that regard and, you know, just hands-on experience. >> We were talking before we came on camera, you guys just had another talk and how it's all future and kind of get back to reality, Earth. >> Russ: Get back to Earth. >> If we're on earth still. We're not on Mars yet, or the moon. You know, AI's kind of got a future, but it does give a tell sign to what's coming, industrial change, full transformation, 'cause cloud does the back office. You got data centers. Now you've got cloud going to the edge with industrial spaces, the ultimate poster child of edge and automation safety. But at the end of the day, we're still in the real world. Now people got to run businesses. And I think, you know, having you here is interesting. So I have to ask you, you know, as you look at the technology, you got to see AI everywhere. And the theme here, to me, that I see is the inflection point driving all this future robotics change, that everyone's been waiting for by the way, but it's like been in movies and in novels, is the machine learning and AI as the tipping point. This is key. And now you're here integrating AI into your company. Tell us your story. >> Well, I think that every enterprise is going to need more machine learning, more, you know, AI or data science. And that's the journey that we're on right now. And we've come a long way in the past six years, particularly with our e-commerce division, it's a really data rich environment. So, you know, going from brick and mortar, you know, delivering to restaurants, vending machines and stuff, it's a whole different world when you're, people are ordering on Amazon every couple minutes, or seconds even, our products. But they, being able to track all that... >> Can you scope the problem statement and the opportunity? Because if I just kind of just, again, I'm not, you're in, it's your company, you're in the weeds, you're at the data, you're everything, But it just seems me, the world's now more integration, more different data sources. You've got suppliers, they have their different IT back ends. Some are in the cloud, some aren't in the cloud. This is, like, a hard problem when you want to bring data together. I mean, API certainly help, but can you scope the problem, and, like, what we're talking about here? >> Well, we've got so many different sources of data now, right? So we used to be relying on a couple of aggregators who would pull all this data for us and hand us an aggregated view of things. But now we're able to partner with different retailers and get detail, granular information about transactions, orders. And it's just changed the game, changed the landscape from just, like, getting a rough view, to seeing the nuts and bolts and, like, all the moving parts. >> Yeah, and you see in data engineering much more tied into like cloud scale. Then you got the data scientists, more the democratization application and enablement. So I got to ask, how did you guys connect? What was the problem statement? How did you guys, did you have smoke and fire? You came in solved the problem? Was it a growth thing? How did this, how did you guys connect as a customer with Provectus? >> Yeah, I can elaborate on that. So we were in the very beginning of that journey when there was, like, just a few people in this new startup, let's call it startup within PepsiCo. >> John: Yeah. >> Calling like a, it's not only e-commerce, it was a huge belief from the top management that it's going to bring tremendous value to the enterprise. So there was no single use case, "Hey, do this and you're going to get that." So it's a huge belief that e-commerce is the future. Some industry trends like from brand-centric to consumer-centric. So brand, product-centric. Amazon has the mission to build the most customer-centric customer company. And I believe that success, it gets a lot of enterprises are being influenced by that success. So I remember that time, PepsiCo had a huge belief. We started building just from scratch, figuring out what does the business need? What are the business use cases? We have not started with the IT. We have not started with this very complicated migrations, modernizations. >> John: So clean sheet of paper. >> Yeah. >> From scratch. >> From scratch. >> And so you got the green light. >> Yeah. >> And the leadership threw the holy water on that and said, "Hey, we'll do this."? >> That's exactly what happened. It was from the top down. The CEO kind of set aside the e-commerce vision as kind of being able to, in a rapidly evolving business place like e-commerce, it's a growing field. Not everybody's figured it out yet, but to be able to change quickly, right? The business needs to change quickly. The technology needs to change quickly. And that's what we're doing here. >> So this is interesting. A lot of companies don't have that, actually, luxury. I mean, it's still more fun because the tools are available now that all the hyper scales built on their own. I mean, back in the day, 10 years ago, they had to build it all, Facebook. You didn't know, I had people on here from Pinterest and other companies. They had to build all of that from scratch. Now cloud's here. So how did you guys do this? What was the playbook? Take us through the AI because it sounds like the AI is core, you know, belief principle of the whole entire system. What did you guys do? Take me through the journey there. >> Yeah. Beyond management decisions, strategic decisions that has been made as a separate startup, whatever- >> John: That's great. >> So some practical, tactical. So it may sound like a cliche, but it's a huge thing because I work with many enterprises and this, like, "center of excellence" that does a nice technology stuff and then looks for the budget on the different business units. It just doesn't go anywhere. It could take you forever to modernize. >> We call that the Game of Thrones environment. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Nothing ever gets done 'till it blows up at the end. >> Here, these guys, and I have to admit, I don't want to steal their thunder. I just want to emphasize it as an external person. These guys just made it so differently. >> John: Yeah. >> They even physically sat in a different office in a WeWork co-working and built that business from scratch. >> That's what Andy Jackson talked about two years ago. And if you look at some of the big successes on AWS, Capital One, all the big, Goldman Sachs. The leadership, real commitment, not like BS, like total commitment says, "Go." But enough rope to give you some room, right? >> Yeah. I think that's the thing is, there was always an IT presence, right, overseeing what we were doing within e-commerce, but we had a lot of freedoms to make design choices, technology choices, and really accelerate the business, focus on those use cases where we could make a big impact with a technology choice. >> Take me through the stages of the AI transformation. What are some of the use cases and specific tactics you guys executed on? >> Well, I think that the supply chain, which I think is a hot topic right now, but that was one use case where we're using, like, data real time, real time data to inform our sales projections and delivery logistics. But also our marketing return on investment, I feel like that was a really interesting, complex problem to solve using machine learning, Because there's so much data that we needed to process in terms of countries, territories, products, like where do you spend your limited marketing budget when you have so many choices, and, using machine learning, boil that all down to, you know, this is the optimal choice, right now. >> What were some of the challenges and how did you overcome them in the early days to get things set up, 'cause it takes a lot of energy to get it going, to get the models. What were some of the challenges and how did you overcome them? >> Well, I think some of it was expertise, right? Like having a partner like Provectus and Stepan really helped because they could guide us, Stepan could guide us, give his expertise and what he knows in terms of what he's seen to our budding and growing business. >> And what were the things that you guys saw that you contributed on? And was there anything new that you had to do together? >> Yeah, so yeah. First of all, just a very practical tip. Yes, start with the use cases. Clearly talk to the business and say, "Hey, these are the list of the use cases" and prioritize them. So not with IT, not with technology, not with the migration thing. Don't touch anything on legacy systems. Second, get data in. So you may have your legacy systems or some other third party systems that you work with. There's no AI without data. Get all the pipelines, get data. Quickly boat strap the data lake house. Put all the pipelines, all the governance in place. And yeah, literally took us three months to get up and running. And we started delivering first analytical reports. It's just to have something back to business and keep going. >> By the way, that's huge, speed. I mean, this is speed. You go back and had that baggage of IT and the old antiquated systems, you'd be dragging probably months. Right? >> It's years, years. Imagine you should migrate SAP to the cloud first. No, you don't do don't need to do that. >> Pipeline. >> Just get data. I need data. >> Stream that data. All right, where are we now? When did you guys start? I want to get just going to timeline my head 'cause I heard three months. Where are we now? You guys threw it. Now you have impact. You have, you have results. >> Yeah. I mean that for our marketing ROI engine, we've built it and it's developed within e-commerce, but we've started to spread it throughout the organization now. So it's not just about the digital and the e-commerce space. We're deploying it to, you know, regionally to other, to Europe, to Latin America, other divisions within PepsiCo. And it's just grown exponentially. >> So you have scale to it right now? >> Yeah. Well- >> How far are you in now? What, how many years, months, days? >> E-commerce, the division was created six years ago, which is, so we've had some time to develop this, our machine learning capabilities and this use case particular, but it's increasingly relevant and expansion is happening as we speak. >> What are you most proud of? You look back at the impact. What are you most proud of? >> I think the relationship we built with the people, you know, who use our technology, right. Just seeing the impact is what makes me proud. >> Can you give an example without revealing any confidential information? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was an example from my talk about, I was approached recently by our sales team. They were having difficulty with supply chain, monitoring our fill rate of our top brands with these retailers. And they come up to me, they have this problem. They're like, "How do we solve it?" So we work together to find a data source, just start getting that data in the hands of people who can use it within days. You know, not talking like a long time. Bring that data into our data warehouse, and then surface the data in a tool they can use, you know, within a matter of a week or two. >> I mean, the transformation is just incredible. In fact, we were talking on theCUBE earlier today around, you know, data warehouses in the cloud, data meshes of different pros and cons. And the theme that came out of that conversation was data's a product now. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And what you're kind of describing is, just gimme the product or find it. >> Russ: Right. >> And bring it in with everything else. And there's some, you know, cleaning and stuff people do if they have issues with that. But, if not, it's just bring it in, right? It's a product. >> Well, especially with the data exchanges now. AWS has a data exchange and this, I think, is the future of data and what's possible with data because you don't have to start from, okay, I've got this Excel file somebody's been working with on their desktop. This is a, someone's taken that file, put it into a warehouse or a data model, and then they can share it with you. >> John: So are you happy with these guys? >> Absolutely, yeah. >> You're actually telling the story. What was the biggest impact that they did? Was it partnering? Was it writing code, bringing development in, counseling, all the above, managed services? What? >> I think the biggest impact was the idea, you know, like being able to bring ideas to the table and not just, you know, ask us what we want, right? Like I think Provectus is a true partner and was able to share that sort of expertise with us. >> You know, Andy Jackson, whenever I interview on theCUBE, he's now in charge of all Amazon. But when he was at (inaudible). He always had to use their learnings, get the learnings out. What was the learnings you look back now and say, Hey, those were tough times. We overcome them. We stopped, we started, we iterated, we kept moving forward. What was the big learning as you look back, some of the key success points, maybe some failures that you overcome. What was the big learnings that you could share with folks out there now that are in the same situation where they're saying, "Hey, I'd rather start from scratch and do a reset." >> Yeah. So with that in particular, yes, we started this like sort of startup within the enterprise, but now we've got to integrate, right? It's been six years and e-commerce is now sharing our data with the rest of the organization. How do we do that, right? There's an enterprise solution, and we've got this scrappy or, I mean, not scrappy anymore, but we've got our own, you know, way of doing. >> Kind of boot strap. I mean, you were kind of given charter. It's a start up within a big company, I mean- >> But our data platform now is robust, and it's one of the best I've seen. But how do we now get those systems to talk? And I think Provectus has came to us with, "Here, there's this idea called data mesh, where you can, you know, have these two independent platforms, but share the data in a centralized way. >> So you guys are obviously have a data mesh in place, big part of the architecture? >> So it is in progress, but we know the next step. So we know the next step. We know the next two steps, what we're going to do, what we need to do to make it really, to have that common method, data layer. between different data products within organization, different locations, different business units. So they can start talking to each other through the data and have specific escalates on the data. And yeah. >> It's smart because I think one of the things that people, I think, I'd love to get your reaction to this is that we've been telling the story for many, many years, you have horizontally scalable cloud and vertically specialized domain solutions, you need machine learning that's smart, but you need a lot of data to help it. And that's not, a new architecture, that's a data plane, it's control plane, but now everyone goes, "Okay, let's do silos." And they forget the scale side. And then they go, "Wait a minute." You know, "I'm not going to share it." And so you have this new debate of, and I want to own my own data. So the data layer becomes an interesting conversation. >> Yeah, yes. Meta data. >> Yeah. So what, how do you guys see that? Because this becomes a super important kind of decision point architecturally. >> I mean, my take is that there has to be some, there will always be domains, right? Everyone, like there's only so much that you can find commonality across, like in industry, for example. But there will always be a data owner. And, you know, kind of like what happened with rush to APIs, how that enabled microservices within applications and being sharing in a standardized way, I think something like that has to happen in the data space. So it's not a monolithic data warehouse, it's- >> You know, the other thing I want to ask you guys both, if you don't mind commenting while I got you here, 'cause you're both experts. >> We just did a showcase on data programmability. Kind of a radical idea, but like data as code, we called it. >> Oh yeah. >> And so if data's a product and you're acting on, you've got an architecture and system set up, you got to might code it's programmable. You need you're coding with data. Data becomes like a part of the development process. What do you guys think of when you hear data as code and data being programmable? >> Yeah, it's a interesting, so yeah, first of all, I think Russ can elaborate on that, Data engineering is also software engineering. Machine learning engineering is a software. At the end of the day, it's all product. So we can use different terms and buzz words for that but this is what we have at the end of the day. So having the data, well I will use another buzz word, but in terms of the headless architecture- >> Yes. >> When you have a nice SDK, nice API, but you can manipulate with the data as your programming object to build reach applications for your users, and give it, and share not as just a table in Redshift or a bunch of CSV files in S3 bucket, but share it as a programmable thing that you can work with. >> Data as code. >> Yeah. This is- >> Infrastructure code was a revolution for DevOps, but it's not AI Ops so it's something different. It's really it's data engineering. It's programming. >> Yeah. This is the way to deliver data to your consumers. So there are different ways you can show it on a dashboard. You can show it, you can expose it as an API, or you can give it as an object, programmable interface. >> So now you're set up with a data architecture that's extensible 'cause that's the goal. You don't want to foreclose. You must think about that must keep you up at night. What's going to foreclose that benefit? 'Cause there's more coming. Right? >> Absolutely. There's always more coming. And I think that's why it's important to have that robust data platform to work from. And yeah, as Stepan mentioned, I'm a big believer in data engineering as software engineering. It's not some like it's not completely separate. You have to follow the best practices software engineers practice. And, you know, really think about maintainability and scalability. >> You know, we were riffing about how cloud had the SRE managing all those servers. One person, data engineering has a many, a one to many relationships too. You got a lot going on. It's not managing a database. It's millions of data points and data opportunity. So gentlemen, thanks for coming on theCUBE. I really appreciate it. And thanks for telling the story of Pepsi. >> Of course, >> And great conversation. Congratulations on this great customer. And thanks for >> coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks, thank you. Thanks, Russ, would you like to wrap it up with the pantry shops story? >> Oh, yeah! I think it will just be a super relevant evidence of the agility and speed and some real world applicable >> Let's go. Close us out. >> So when, when the pandemic happened and there were lockdowns everywhere, people started buying things online. And we noticed this and got a challenge from our direct to consumer team saying, "Look, we need a storefront to be able to sell to our consumers, and we've got 30 days to do it." We need to be able to work fast. And so we built not just a website, but like everything that behind it, the logistics of supply chain aspects, the data platform. And we didn't just build one. We built two. We got pantry shop.com and snacks.com, within 30 days. >> Good domains! >> The domain broker was happy on that one. Well continue the story. >> Yeah, yeah. So I feel like that the agility that's required for that kind of thing and the like the planning to be able to scale from just, you know, an idea to something that people can use every day. And, and that's, I think.- >> And you know, that's a great point too, that shows if you're in the cloud, you're doing the work you're prepared for anything. The pandemic was the true test for who was ready because it was unforeseen force majeure. It was just like here it comes and the people who were in the cloud had that set up, could move quickly. The ones that couldn't. >> Exactly. >> We know what happened. >> And I would like to echo this. So they have built not just a website, they have built the whole business line within, and launched that successfully to production. That includes sales, marketing, supply chain, e-commerce, aside within 30 days. And that's just a role model that could be used by other enterprises. >> Yeah. And it was not possible without, first of all, right culture. And second, without cloud Amazon elasticity and all the tools that we have in place. >> Well, the right architecture allows for scale. That's the whole, I mean, you did everything right at the architecture that's scale. I mean, you're scaling. >> And we empower our engineers to make those choices, right. We're not, like, super bureaucratic where every decision has to be approved by the manager or the managers manager. The engineers have the power to just make good decisions, and that's how we move fast. >> That's exactly the future right there. And this is what it's all about. Reliability, scale agility, the ability to react and have applications roll out on top of it without long timeframes. Congratulations. Thanks for being on theCUBE. Appreciate it. All right. >> Thank you. >> Okay, you're watching theCUBE here at re:MARS 2020, I'm John Furrier. Stay tuned. We've got more coverage coming after this short break. (upbeat music)

(gentle melody) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of AWS Summit in San Francisco, California. Events are back. AWS Summit in New York City this summer, theCUBE will be there as well. Check us out there. I'm glad to have events back. It's great to have of everyone here. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Dr. Matt Wood is with me, CUBE alumni, now VP of Business Analytics Division of AWS. Matt, great to see you. >> Thank you, John. It's great to be here. I appreciate it. >> I always call you Dr. Matt Wood because Andy Jackson always says, "Dr. Matt, we would introduce you on the arena." (Matt laughs) >> Matt: The one and only. >> The one and only, Dr. Matt Wood. >> In joke, I love it. (laughs) >> Andy style. (Matt laughs) I think you had walk up music too. >> Yes, we all have our own personalized walk up music. >> So talk about your new role, not a new role, but you're running the analytics business for AWS. What does that consist of right now? >> Sure. So I work. I've got what I consider to be one of the best jobs in the world. I get to work with our customers and the teams at AWS to build the analytics services that millions of our customers use to slice dice, pivot, better understand their data, look at how they can use that data for reporting, looking backwards. And also look at how they can use that data looking forward, so predictive analytics and machine learning. So whether it is slicing and dicing in the lower level of Hadoop and the big data engines, or whether you're doing ETL with Glue, or whether you're visualizing the data in QuickSight or building your models in SageMaker. I got my fingers in a lot of pies. >> One of the benefits of having CUBE coverage with AWS since 2013 is watching the progression. You were on theCUBE that first year we were at Reinvent in 2013, and look at how machine learning just exploded onto the scene. You were involved in that from day one. It's still day one, as you guys say. What's the big thing now? Look at just what happened. Machine learning comes in and then a slew of services come in. You've got SageMaker, became a hot seller right out of the gate. The database stuff was kicking butt. So all this is now booming. That was a real generational change over for database. What's the perspective? What's your perspective on that's evolved? >> I think it's a really good point. I totally agree. I think for machine learning, there's sort of a Renaissance in machine learning and the application of machine learning. Machine learning as a technology has been around for 50 years, let's say. But to do machine learning right, you need like a lot of data. The data needs to be high quality. You need a lot of compute to be able to train those models and you have to be able to evaluate what those models mean as you apply them to real world problems. And so the cloud really removed a lot of the constraints. Finally, customers had all of the data that they needed. We gave them services to be able to label that data in a high quality way. There's all the compute you need to be able to train the models. And so where you go? And so the cloud really enabled this Renaissance with machine learning. And we're seeing honestly a similar Renaissance with data and analytics. If you look back five to ten years, analytics was something you did in batch, your data warehouse ran an analysis to do reconciliation at the end of the month, and that was it. (John laughs) And so that's when you needed it. But today, if your Redshift cluster isn't available, Uber drivers don't turn up, DoorDash deliveries don't get made. Analytics is now central to virtually every business, and it is central to virtually every business's digital transformation. And being able to take that data from a variety of sources, be able to query it with high performance, to be able to actually then start to augment that data with real information, which usually comes from technical experts and domain experts to form wisdom and information from raw data. That's kind of what most organizations are trying to do when they kind of go through this analytics journey. >> It's interesting. Dave Velanta and I always talk on theCUBE about the future. And you look back, the things we're talking about six years ago are actually happening now. And it's not hyped up statement to say digital transformation is actually happening now. And there's also times when we bang our fists on the table saying, say, "I really think this is so important." And David says, "John, you're going to die on that hill." (Matt laughs) And so I'm excited that this year, for the first time, I didn't die on that hill. I've been saying- >> Do all right. >> Data as code is the next infrastructure as code. And Dave's like, "What do you mean by that?" We're talking about how data gets... And it's happening. So we just had an event on our AWS startups.com site, a showcase for startups, and the theme was data as code. And interesting new trends emerging really clearly, the role of a data engineer, right? Like an SRE, what an SRE did for cloud, you have a new data engineering role because of the developer onboarding is massively increasing, exponentially, new developers. Data science scientists are growing, but the pipelining and managing and engineering as a system, almost like an operating system. >> Kind of as a discipline. >> So what's your reaction to that about this data engineer, data as code? Because if you have horizontally scalable data, you've got to be open, that's hard (laughs), okay? And you got to silo the data that needs to be siloed for compliance and reason. So that's a big policy around that. So what's your reaction to data's code and the data engineering phenomenon? >> It's a really good point. I think with any technology project inside of an organization, success with analytics or machine learning, it's kind of 50% technology and then 50% cultural. And you have often domain experts. Those could be physicians or drug design experts, or they could be financial experts or whoever they might be, got deep domain expertise, and then you've got technical implementation teams. And there's kind of a natural, often repulsive force. I don't mean that rudely, but they just don't talk the same language. And so the more complex a domain and the more complex the technology, the stronger their repulsive force. And it can become very difficult for domain experts to work closely with the technical experts to be able to actually get business decisions made. And so what data engineering does and data engineering is, in some cases a team, or it can be a role that you play. It's really allowing those two disciplines to speak the same language. You can think of it as plumbing, but I think of it as like a bridge. It's a bridge between the technical implementation and the domain experts, and that requires a very disparate range of skills. You've got to understand about statistics, you've got to understand about the implementation, you got to understand about the data, you got to understand about the domain. And if you can put all of that together, that data engineering discipline can be incredibly transformative for an organization because it builds the bridge between those two groups. >> I was advising some young computer science students at the sophomore, junior level just a couple of weeks ago, and I told them I would ask someone at Amazon this question. So I'll ask you, >> Matt: Okay. since you've been in the middle of it for years, they were asking me, and I was trying to mentor them on how do you become a data engineer, from a practical standpoint? Courseware, projects to work on, how to think, not just coding Python, because everyone's coding in Python, but what else can they do? So I was trying to help them. I didn't really know the answer myself. I was just trying to kind of help figure it out with them. So what is the answer, in your opinion, or the thoughts around advice to young students who want to be data engineers? Because data scientists is pretty clear on what that is. You use tools, you make visualizations, you manage data, you get answers and insights and then apply that to the business. That's an application. That's not the standing up a stack or managing the infrastructure. So what does that coding look like? What would your advice be to folks getting into a data engineering role? >> Yeah, I think if you believe this, what I said earlier about 50% technology, 50 % culture, the number one technology to learn as a data engineer is the tools in the cloud which allow you to aggregate data from virtually any source into something which is incrementally more valuable for the organization. That's really what data engineering is all about. It's about taking from multiple sources. Some people call them silos, but silos indicates that the storage is kind of fungible or undifferentiated. That's really not the case. Success requires you to have really purpose built, well crafted, high performance, low cost engines for all of your data. So understanding those tools and understanding how to use them, that's probably the most important technical piece. Python and programming and statistics go along with that, I think. And then the most important cultural part, I think is... It's just curiosity. You want to be able to, as a data engineer, you want to have a natural curiosity that drives you to seek the truth inside an organization, seek the truth of a particular problem, and to be able to engage because probably you're going to some choice as you go through your career about which domain you end up in. Maybe you're really passionate about healthcare, or you're really just passionate about transportation or media, whatever it might be. And you can allow that to drive a certain amount of curiosity. But within those roles, the domains are so broad you kind of got to allow your curiosity to develop and lead you to ask the right questions and engage in the right way with your teams, because you can have all the technical skills in the world. But if you're not able to help the team's truth seek through that curiosity, you simply won't be successful. >> We just had a guest, 20 year old founder, Johnny Dallas who was 16 when he worked at Amazon. Youngest engineer- >> Johnny Dallas is a great name, by the way. (both chuckle) >> It's his real name. It sounds like a football player. >> That's awesome. >> Rock star. Johnny CUBE, it's me. But he's young and he was saying... His advice was just do projects. >> Matt: And get hands on. Yeah. >> And I was saying, hey, I came from the old days where you get to stand stuff up and you hugged on for the assets because you didn't want to kill the project because you spent all this money. And he's like, yeah, with cloud you can shut it down. If you do a project that's not working and you get bad data no one's adopting it or you don't like it anymore, you shut it down, just something else. >> Yeah, totally. >> Instantly abandon it and move on to something new. That's a progression. >> Totally! The blast radius of decisions is just way reduced. We talk a lot about in the old world, trying to find the resources and get the funding is like, all right, I want to try out this kind of random idea that could be a big deal for the organization. I need $50 million and a new data center. You're not going to get anywhere. >> And you do a proposal, working backwards, documents all kinds of stuff. >> All that sort of stuff. >> Jump your hoops. >> So all of that is gone. But we sometimes forget that a big part of that is just the prototyping and the experimentation and the limited blast radius in terms of cost, and honestly, the most important thing is time, just being able to jump in there, fingers on keyboards, just try this stuff out. And that's why at AWS, we have... Part of the reason we have so many services, because we want, when you get into AWS, we want the whole toolbox to be available to every developer. And so as your ideas develop, you may want to jump from data that you have that's already in a database to doing realtime data. And then you have the tools there. And when you want to get into real time data, you don't just have kinesis, you have real time analytics, and you can run SQL against that data. The capabilities and the breadth really matter when it comes to prototyping. >> That's the culture piece, because what was once a dysfunctional behavior. I'm going to go off the reservation and try something behind my boss' back, now is a side hustle or fun project. So for fun, you can just code something. >> Yeah, totally. I remember my first Hadoop projects. I found almost literally a decommissioned set of servers in the data center that no one was using. They were super old. They're about to be literally turned off. And I managed to convince the team to leave them on for me for another month. And I installed Hadoop on them and got them going. That just seems crazy to me now that I had to go and convince anybody not to turn these servers off. But what it was like when you- >> That's when you came up with Elastic MapReduce because you said this is too hard, we got to make it easier. >> Basically yes. (John laughs) I was installing Hadoop version Beta 9.9 or whatever. It was like, this is really hard. >> We got to make it simpler. All right, good stuff. I love the walk down memory Lane. And also your advice. Great stuff. I think culture is huge. That's why I like Adam's keynote at Reinvent, Adam Selipsky talk about Pathfinders and trailblazers, because that's a blast radius impact when you can actually have innovation organically just come from anywhere. That's totally cool. >> Matt: Totally cool. >> All right, let's get into the product. Serverless has been hot. We hear a lot of EKS is hot. Containers are booming. Kubernetes is getting adopted, still a lot of work to do there. Cloud native developers are booming. Serverless, Lambda. How does that impact the analytics piece? Can you share the hot products around how that translates? >> Absolutely, yeah. >> Aurora, SageMaker. >> Yeah, I think it's... If you look at kind of the evolution and what customers are asking for, they don't just want low cost. They don't just want this broad set of services. They don't just want those services to have deep capabilities. They want those services to have as low an operating cost over time as possible. So we kind of really got it down. We got built a lot of muscle, a lot of services about getting up and running and experimenting and prototyping and turning things off and turning them on and turning them off. And that's all great. But actually, you really only in most projects start something once and then stop something once, and maybe there's an hour in between or maybe there's a year. But the real expense in terms of time and operations and complexity is sometimes in that running cost. And so we've heard very loudly and clearly from customers that running cost is just undifferentiated to them. And they want to spend more time on their work. And in analytics, that is slicing the data, pivoting the data, combining the data, labeling the data, training their models, running inference against their models, and less time doing the operational pieces. >> Is that why the service focuses there? >> Yeah, absolutely. It dramatically reduces the skill required to run these workloads of any scale. And it dramatically reduces the undifferentiated heavy lifting because you get to focus more of the time that you would have spent on the operations on the actual work that you want to get done. And so if you look at something just like Redshift Serverless, that we launched a Reinvent, we have a lot of customers that want to run the cluster, and they want to get into the weeds where there is benefit. We have a lot of customers that say there's no benefit for me, I just want to do the analytics. So you run the operational piece, you're the experts. We run 60 million instant startups every single day. We do this a lot. >> John: Exactly. We understand the operations- >> I just want the answers. Come on. >> So just give me the answers or just give me the notebook or just give me the inference prediction. Today, for example, we announced Serverless Inference. So now once you've trained your machine learning model, just run a few lines of code or you just click a few buttons and then you got an inference endpoint that you do not have to manage. And whether you're doing one query against that end point per hour or you're doing 10 million, we'll just scale it on the back end. I know we got not a lot of time left, but I want to get your reaction on this. One of the things about the data lakes not being data swamps has been, from what I've been reporting and hearing from customers, is that they want to retrain their machine learning algorithm. They need that data, they need the real time data, and they need the time series data. Even though the time has passed, they got to store in the data lake. So now the data lake's main function is being reusing the data to actually retrain. It works properly. So a lot of post mortems turn into actually business improvements to make the machine learnings smarter, faster. Do you see that same way? Do you see it the same way? >> Yeah, I think it's really interesting >> Or is that just... >> No, I think it's totally interesting because it's convenient to kind of think of analytics as a very clear progression from point A to point B. But really, you're navigating terrain for which you do not have a map, and you need a lot of help to navigate that terrain. And so having these services in place, not having to run the operations of those services, being able to have those services be secure and well governed. And we added PII detection today. It's something you can do automatically, to be able to use any unstructured data, run queries against that unstructured data. So today we added text queries. So you can just say, well, you can scan a badge, for example, and say, well, what's the name on this badge? And you don't have to identify where it is. We'll do all of that work for you. It's more like a branch than it is just a normal A to B path, a linear path. And that includes loops backwards. And sometimes you've got to get the results and use those to make improvements further upstream. And sometimes you've got to use those... And when you're downstream, it will be like, "Ah, I remember that." And you come back and bring it all together. >> Awesome. >> So it's a wonderful world for sure. >> Dr. Matt, we're here in theCUBE. Just take the last word and give the update while you're here what's the big news happening that you're announcing here at Summit in San Francisco, California, and update on the business analytics group. >> Yeah, we did a lot of announcements in the keynote. I encourage everyone to take a look at, that this morning with Swami. One of the ones I'm most excited about is the opportunity to be able to take dashboards, visualizations. We're all used to using these things. We see them in our business intelligence tools, all over the place. However, what we've heard from customers is like, yes, I want those analytics, I want that visualization, I want it to be up to date, but I don't actually want to have to go from my tools where I'm actually doing my work to another separate tool to be able to look at that information. And so today we announced 1-click public embedding for QuickSight dashboard. So today you can literally as easily as embedding a YouTube video, you can take a dashboard that you've built inside QuickSight, cut and paste the HTML, paste it into your application and that's it. That's what you have to do. It takes seconds. >> And it gets updated in real time. >> Updated in real time. It's interactive. You can do everything that you would normally do. You can brand it, there's no power by QuickSight button or anything like that. You can change the colors, fit in perfectly with your application. So that's an incredibly powerful way of being able to take an analytics capability that today sits inside its own little fiefdom and put it just everywhere. Very transformative. >> Awesome. And the business is going well. You got the Serverless detail win for you there. Good stuff. Dr. Matt Wood, thank you for coming on theCUBE. >> Anytime. Thank you. >> Okay, this is theCUBE's coverage of AWS Summit 2022 in San Francisco, California. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Stay with us for more coverage of day two after this short break. (gentle music)

(upbeat music) >> Once a staid and boring business dominated by IBM, Oracle, and at the time newcomer Microsoft, along with a handful of wannabes, the database business has exploded in the past decade and has become a staple of financial excellence, customer experience, analytic advantage, competitive strategy, growth initiatives, visualizations, not to mention compliance, security, privacy and dozens of other important use cases and initiatives. And on the vendor's side of the house, we've seen the rapid ascendancy of cloud databases. Most notably from Snowflake, whose massive raises leading up to its IPO in late 2020 sparked a spate of interest and VC investment in the separation of compute and storage and all that elastic resource stuff in the cloud. The company joined AWS, Azure and Google to popularize cloud databases, which have become a linchpin of competitive strategies for technology suppliers. And if I get you to put your data in my database and in my cloud, and I keep innovating, I'm going to build a moat and achieve a hugely attractive lifetime customer value in a really amazing marginal economics dynamic that is going to fund my future. And I'll be able to sell other adjacent services, not just compute and storage, but machine learning and inference and training and all kinds of stuff, dozens of lucrative cloud offerings. Meanwhile, the database leader, Oracle has invested massive amounts of money to maintain its lead. It's building on its position as the king of mission critical workloads and making typical Oracle like claims against the competition. Most were recently just yesterday with another announcement around MySQL HeatWave. An extension of MySQL that is compatible with on-premises MySQLs and is setting new standards in price performance. We're seeing a dramatic divergence in strategies across the database spectrum. On the far left, we see Amazon with more than a dozen database offerings each with its own API and primitives. AWS is taking a right tool for the right job approach, often building on open source platforms and creating services that it offers to customers to solve very specific problems for developers. And on the other side of the line, we see Oracle, which is taking the Swiss Army Knife approach, converging database functionality, enabling analytic and transactional workloads to run in the same data store, eliminating the need to ETL, at the same time adding capabilities into its platform like automation and machine learning. Welcome to this database Power Panel. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm so excited to bring together some of the most respected industry analyst in the community. Today we're going to assess what's happening in the market. We're going to dig into the competitive landscape and explore the future of database and database platforms and decode what it means to customers. Let me take a moment to welcome our guest analyst today. Matt Kimball is a vice president and principal analysts at Moor Insights and Strategy, Matt. He knows products, he knows industry, he's got real world IT expertise, and he's got all the angles 25 plus years of experience in all kinds of great background. Matt, welcome. Thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. Holgar Mueller, friend of theCUBE, vice president and principal analyst at Constellation Research in depth knowledge on applications, application development, knows developers. He's worked at SAP and Oracle. And then Bob Evans is Chief Content Officer and co-founder of the Acceleration Economy, founder and principle of Cloud Wars. Covers all kinds of industry topics and great insights. He's got awesome videos, these three minute hits. If you haven't seen 'em, checking them out, knows cloud companies, his Cloud Wars minutes are fantastic. And then of course, Marc Staimer is the founder of Dragon Slayer Research. A frequent contributor and guest analyst at Wikibon. He's got a wide ranging knowledge across IT products, knows technology really well, can go deep. And then of course, Ron Westfall, Senior Analyst and Director Research Director at Futurum Research, great all around product trends knowledge. Can take, you know, technical dives and really understands competitive angles, knows Redshift, Snowflake, and many others. Gents, thanks so much for taking the time to join us in theCube today. It's great to have you on, good to see you. >> Good to be here, thanks for having us. >> Thanks, Dave. >> All right, let's start with an around the horn and briefly, if each of you would describe, you know, anything I missed in your areas of expertise and then you answer the following question, how would you describe the state of the database, state of platform market today? Matt Kimball, please start. >> Oh, I hate going first, but that it's okay. How would I describe the world today? I would just in one sentence, I would say, I'm glad I'm not in IT anymore, right? So, you know, it is a complex and dangerous world out there. And I don't envy IT folks I'd have to support, you know, these modernization and transformation efforts that are going on within the enterprise. It used to be, you mentioned it, Dave, you would argue about IBM versus Oracle versus this newcomer in the database space called Microsoft. And don't forget Sybase back in the day, but you know, now it's not just, which SQL vendor am I going to go with? It's all of these different, divergent data types that have to be taken, they have to be merged together, synthesized. And somehow I have to do that cleanly and use this to drive strategic decisions for my business. That is not easy. So, you know, you have to look at it from the perspective of the business user. It's great for them because as a DevOps person, or as an analyst, I have so much flexibility and I have this thing called the cloud now where I can go get services immediately. As an IT person or a DBA, I am calling up prevention hotlines 24 hours a day, because I don't know how I'm going to be able to support the business. And as an Oracle or as an Oracle or a Microsoft or some of the cloud providers and cloud databases out there, I'm licking my chops because, you know, my market is expanding and expanding every day. >> Great, thank you for that, Matt. Holgar, how do you see the world these days? You always have a good perspective on things, share with us. >> Well, I think it's the best time to be in IT, I'm not sure what Matt is talking about. (laughing) It's easier than ever, right? The direction is going to cloud. Kubernetes has won, Google has the best AI for now, right? So things are easier than ever before. You made commitments for five plus years on hardware, networking and so on premise, and I got gray hair about worrying it was the wrong decision. No, just kidding. But you kind of both sides, just to be controversial, make it interesting, right. So yeah, no, I think the interesting thing specifically with databases, right? We have this big suite versus best of breed, right? Obviously innovation, like you mentioned with Snowflake and others happening in the cloud, the cloud vendors server, where to save of their databases. And then we have one of the few survivors of the old guard as Evans likes to call them is Oracle who's doing well, both their traditional database. And now, which is really interesting, remarkable from that because Oracle it was always the power of one, have one database, add more to it, make it what I call the universal database. And now this new HeatWave offering is coming and MySQL open source side. So they're getting the second (indistinct) right? So it's interesting that older players, traditional players who still are in the market are diversifying their offerings. Something we don't see so much from the traditional tools from Oracle on the Microsoft side or the IBM side these days. >> Great, thank you Holgar. Bob Evans, you've covered this business for a while. You've worked at, you know, a number of different outlets and companies and you cover the competition, how do you see things? >> Dave, you know, the other angle to look at this from is from the customer side, right? You got now CEOs who are any sort of business across all sorts of industries, and they understand that their future success is going to be dependent on their ability to become a digital company, to understand data, to use it the right way. So as you outline Dave, I think in your intro there, it is a fantastic time to be in the database business. And I think we've got a lot of new buyers and influencers coming in. They don't know all this history about IBM and Microsoft and Oracle and you know, whoever else. So I think they're going to take a long, hard look, Dave, at some of these results and who is able to help these companies not serve up the best technology, but who's going to be able to help their business move into the digital future. So it's a fascinating time now from every perspective. >> Great points, Bob. I mean, digital transformation has gone from buzzword to imperative. Mr. Staimer, how do you see things? >> I see things a little bit differently than my peers here in that I see the database market being segmented. There's all the different kinds of databases that people are looking at for different kinds of data, and then there is databases in the cloud. And so database as cloud service, I view very differently than databases because the traditional way of implementing a database is changing and it's changing rapidly. So one of the premises that you stated earlier on was that you viewed Oracle as a database company. I don't view Oracle as a database company anymore. I view Oracle as a cloud company that happens to have a significant expertise and specialty in databases, and they still sell database software in the traditional way, but ultimately they're a cloud company. So database cloud services from my point of view is a very distinct market from databases. >> Okay, well, you gave us some good meat on the bone to talk about that. Last but not least-- >> Dave did Marc, just say Oracle's a cloud company? >> Yeah. (laughing) Take away the database, it would be interesting to have that discussion, but let's let Ron jump in here. Ron, give us your take. >> That's a great segue. I think it's truly the era of the cloud database, that's something that's rising. And the key trends that come with it include for example, elastic scaling. That is the ability to scale on demand, to right size workloads according to customer requirements. And also I think it's going to increase the prioritization for high availability. That is the player who can provide the highest availability is going to have, I think, a great deal of success in this emerging market. And also I anticipate that there will be more consolidation across platforms in order to enable cost savings for customers, and that's something that's always going to be important. And I think we'll see more of that over the horizon. And then finally security, security will be more important than ever. We've seen a spike (indistinct), we certainly have seen geopolitical originated cybersecurity concerns. And as a result, I see database security becoming all the more important. >> Great, thank you. Okay, let me share some data with you guys. I'm going to throw this at you and see what you think. We have this awesome data partner called Enterprise Technology Research, ETR. They do these quarterly surveys and each period with dozens of industry segments, they track clients spending, customer spending. And this is the database, data warehouse sector okay so it's taxonomy, so it's not perfect, but it's a big kind of chunk. They essentially ask customers within a category and buy a specific vendor, you're spending more or less on the platform? And then they subtract the lesses from the mores and they derive a metric called net score. It's like NPS, it's a measure of spending velocity. It's more complicated and granular than that, but that's the basis and that's the vertical axis. The horizontal axis is what they call market share, it's not like IDC market share, it's just pervasiveness in the data set. And so there are a couple of things that stand out here and that we can use as reference point. The first is the momentum of Snowflake. They've been off the charts for many, many, for over two years now, anything above that dotted red line, that 40%, is considered by ETR to be highly elevated and Snowflake's even way above that. And I think it's probably not sustainable. We're going to see in the next April survey, next month from those guys, when it comes out. And then you see AWS and Microsoft, they're really pervasive on the horizontal axis and highly elevated, Google falls behind them. And then you got a number of well funded players. You got Cockroach Labs, Mongo, Redis, MariaDB, which of course is a fork on MySQL started almost as protest at Oracle when they acquired Sun and they got MySQL and you can see the number of others. Now Oracle who's the leading database player, despite what Marc Staimer says, we know, (laughs) and they're a cloud player (laughing) who happens to be a leading database player. They dominate in the mission critical space, we know that they're the king of that sector, but you can see here that they're kind of legacy, right? They've been around a long time, they get a big install base. So they don't have the spending momentum on the vertical axis. Now remember this is, just really this doesn't capture spending levels, so that understates Oracle but nonetheless. So it's not a complete picture like SAP for instance is not in here, no Hana. I think people are actually buying it, but it doesn't show up here, (laughs) but it does give an indication of momentum and presence. So Bob Evans, I'm going to start with you. You've commented on many of these companies, you know, what does this data tell you? >> Yeah, you know, Dave, I think all these compilations of things like that are interesting, and that folks at ETR do some good work, but I think as you said, it's a snapshot sort of a two-dimensional thing of a rapidly changing, three dimensional world. You know, the incidents at which some of these companies are mentioned versus the volume that happens. I think it's, you know, with Oracle and I'm not going to declare my religious affiliation, either as cloud company or database company, you know, they're all of those things and more, and I think some of our old language of how we classify companies is just not relevant anymore. But I want to ask too something in here, the autonomous database from Oracle, nobody else has done that. So either Oracle is crazy, they've tried out a technology that nobody other than them is interested in, or they're onto something that nobody else can match. So to me, Dave, within Oracle, trying to identify how they're doing there, I would watch autonomous database growth too, because right, it's either going to be a big plan and it breaks through, or it's going to be caught behind. And the Snowflake phenomenon as you mentioned, that is a rare, rare bird who comes up and can grow 100% at a billion dollar revenue level like that. So now they've had a chance to come in, scare the crap out of everybody, rock the market with something totally new, the data cloud. Will the bigger companies be able to catch up and offer a compelling alternative, or is Snowflake going to continue to be this outlier. It's a fascinating time. >> Really, interesting points there. Holgar, I want to ask you, I mean, I've talked to certainly I'm sure you guys have too, the founders of Snowflake that came out of Oracle and they actually, they don't apologize. They say, "Hey, we not going to do all that complicated stuff that Oracle does, we were trying to keep it real simple." But at the same time, you know, they don't do sophisticated workload management. They don't do complex joints. They're kind of relying on the ecosystems. So when you look at the data like this and the various momentums, and we talked about the diverging strategies, what does this say to you? >> Well, it is a great point. And I think Snowflake is an example how the cloud can turbo charge a well understood concept in this case, the data warehouse, right? You move that and you find steroids and you see like for some players who've been big in data warehouse, like Sentara Data, as an example, here in San Diego, what could have been for them right in that part. The interesting thing, the problem though is the cloud hides a lot of complexity too, which you can scale really well as you attract lots of customers to go there. And you don't have to build things like what Bob said, right? One of the fascinating things, right, nobody's answering Oracle on the autonomous database. I don't think is that they cannot, they just have different priorities or the database is not such a priority. I would dare to say that it's for IBM and Microsoft right now at the moment. And the cloud vendors, you just hide that right through scripts and through scale because you support thousands of customers and you can deal with a little more complexity, right? It's not against them. Whereas if you have to run it yourself, very different story, right? You want to have the autonomous parts, you want to have the powerful tools to do things. >> Thank you. And so Matt, I want to go to you, you've set up front, you know, it's just complicated if you're in IT, it's a complicated situation and you've been on the customer side. And if you're a buyer, it's obviously, it's like Holgar said, "Cloud's supposed to make this stuff easier, but the simpler it gets the more complicated gets." So where do you place your bets? Or I guess more importantly, how do you decide where to place your bets? >> Yeah, it's a good question. And to what Bob and Holgar said, you know, the around autonomous database, I think, you know, part of, as I, you know, play kind of armchair psychologist, if you will, corporate psychologists, I look at what Oracle is doing and, you know, databases where they've made their mark and it's kind of, that's their strong position, right? So it makes sense if you're making an entry into this cloud and you really want to kind of build momentum, you go with what you're good at, right? So that's kind of the strength of Oracle. Let's put a lot of focus on that. They do a lot more than database, don't get me wrong, but you know, I'm going to short my strength and then kind of pivot from there. With regards to, you know, what IT looks at and what I would look at you know as an IT director or somebody who is, you know, trying to consume services from these different cloud providers. First and foremost, I go with what I know, right? Let's not forget IT is a conservative group. And when we look at, you know, all the different permutations of database types out there, SQL, NoSQL, all the different types of NoSQL, those are largely being deployed by business users that are looking for agility or businesses that are looking for agility. You know, the reason why MongoDB is so popular is because of DevOps, right? It's a great platform to develop on and that's where it kind of gained its traction. But as an IT person, I want to go with what I know, where my muscle memory is, and that's my first position. And so as I evaluate different cloud service providers and cloud databases, I look for, you know, what I know and what I've invested in and where my muscle memory is. Is there enough there and do I have enough belief that that company or that service is going to be able to take me to, you know, where I see my organization in five years from a data management perspective, from a business perspective, are they going to be there? And if they are, then I'm a little bit more willing to make that investment, but it is, you know, if I'm kind of going in this blind or if I'm cloud native, you know, that's where the Snowflakes of the world become very attractive to me. >> Thank you. So Marc, I asked Andy Jackson in theCube one time, you have all these, you know, data stores and different APIs and primitives and you know, very granular, what's the strategy there? And he said, "Hey, that allows us as the market changes, it allows us to be more flexible. If we start building abstractions layers, it's harder for us." I think also it was not a good time to market advantage, but let me ask you, I described earlier on that spectrum from AWS to Oracle. We just saw yesterday, Oracle announced, I think the third major enhancement in like 15 months to MySQL HeatWave, what do you make of that announcement? How do you think it impacts the competitive landscape, particularly as it relates to, you know, converging transaction and analytics, eliminating ELT, I know you have some thoughts on this. >> So let me back up for a second and defend my cloud statement about Oracle for a moment. (laughing) AWS did a great job in developing the cloud market in general and everything in the cloud market. I mean, I give them lots of kudos on that. And a lot of what they did is they took open source software and they rent it to people who use their cloud. So I give 'em lots of credit, they dominate the market. Oracle was late to the cloud market. In fact, they actually poo-pooed it initially, if you look at some of Larry Ellison's statements, they said, "Oh, it's never going to take off." And then they did 180 turn, and they said, "Oh, we're going to embrace the cloud." And they really have, but when you're late to a market, you've got to be compelling. And this ties into the announcement yesterday, but let's deal with this compelling. To be compelling from a user point of view, you got to be twice as fast, offer twice as much functionality, at half the cost. That's generally what compelling is that you're going to capture market share from the leaders who established the market. It's very difficult to capture market share in a new market for yourself. And you're right. I mean, Bob was correct on this and Holgar and Matt in which you look at Oracle, and they did a great job of leveraging their database to move into this market, give 'em lots of kudos for that too. But yesterday they announced, as you said, the third innovation release and the pace is just amazing of what they're doing on these releases on HeatWave that ties together initially MySQL with an integrated builtin analytics engine, so a data warehouse built in. And then they added automation with autopilot, and now they've added machine learning to it, and it's all in the same service. It's not something you can buy and put on your premise unless you buy their cloud customers stuff. But generally it's a cloud offering, so it's compellingly better as far as the integration. You don't buy multiple services, you buy one and it's lower cost than any of the other services, but more importantly, it's faster, which again, give 'em credit for, they have more integration of a product. They can tie things together in a way that nobody else does. There's no additional services, ETL services like Glue and AWS. So from that perspective, they're getting better performance, fewer services, lower cost. Hmm, they're aiming at the compelling side again. So from a customer point of view it's compelling. Matt, you wanted to say something there. >> Yeah, I want to kind of, on what you just said there Marc, and this is something I've found really interesting, you know. The traditional way that you look at software and, you know, purchasing software and IT is, you look at either best of breed solutions and you have to work on the backend to integrate them all and make them all work well. And generally, you know, the big hit against the, you know, we have one integrated offering is that, you lose capability or you lose depth of features, right. And to what you were saying, you know, that's the thing I found interesting about what Oracle is doing is they're building in depth as they kind of, you know, build that service. It's not like you're losing a lot of capabilities, because you're going to one integrated service versus having to use A versus B versus C, and I love that idea. >> You're right. Yeah, not only you're not losing, but you're gaining functionality that you can't get by integrating a lot of these. I mean, I can take Snowflake and integrate it in with machine learning, but I also have to integrate in with a transactional database. So I've got to have connectors between all of this, which means I'm adding time. And what it comes down to at the end of the day is expertise, effort, time, and cost. And so what I see the difference from the Oracle announcements is they're aiming at reducing all of that by increasing performance as well. Correct me if I'm wrong on that but that's what I saw at the announcement yesterday. >> You know, Marc, one thing though Marc, it's funny you say that because I started out saying, you know, I'm glad I'm not 19 anymore. And the reason is because of exactly what you said, it's almost like there's a pseudo level of witchcraft that's required to support the modern data environment right in the enterprise. And I need simpler faster, better. That's what I need, you know, I am no longer wearing pocket protectors. I have turned from, you know, break, fix kind of person, to you know, business consultant. And I need that point and click simplicity, but I can't sacrifice, you know, a depth of features of functionality on the backend as I play that consultancy role. >> So, Ron, I want to bring in Ron, you know, it's funny. So Matt, you mentioned Mongo, I often and say, if Oracle mentions you, you're on the map. We saw them yesterday Ron, (laughing) they hammered RedShifts auto ML, they took swipes at Snowflake, a little bit of BigQuery. What were your thoughts on that? Do you agree with what these guys are saying in terms of HeatWaves capabilities? >> Yes, Dave, I think that's an excellent question. And fundamentally I do agree. And the question is why, and I think it's important to know that all of the Oracle data is backed by the fact that they're using benchmarks. For example, all of the ML and all of the TPC benchmarks, including all the scripts, all the configs and all the detail are posted on GitHub. So anybody can look at these results and they're fully transparent and replicate themselves. If you don't agree with this data, then by all means challenge it. And we have not really seen that in all of the new updates in HeatWave over the last 15 months. And as a result, when it comes to these, you know, fundamentals in looking at the competitive landscape, which I think gives validity to outcomes such as Oracle being able to deliver 4.8 times better price performance than Redshift. As well as for example, 14.4 better price performance than Snowflake, and also 12.9 better price performance than BigQuery. And so that is, you know, looking at the quantitative side of things. But again, I think, you know, to Marc's point and to Matt's point, there are also qualitative aspects that clearly differentiate the Oracle proposition, from my perspective. For example now the MySQL HeatWave ML capabilities are native, they're built in, and they also support things such as completion criteria. And as a result, that enables them to show that hey, when you're using Redshift ML for example, you're having to also use their SageMaker tool and it's running on a meter. And so, you know, nobody really wants to be running on a meter when, you know, executing these incredibly complex tasks. And likewise, when it comes to Snowflake, they have to use a third party capability. They don't have the built in, it's not native. So the user, to the point that he's having to spend more time and it increases complexity to use auto ML capabilities across the Snowflake platform. And also, I think it also applies to other important features such as data sampling, for example, with the HeatWave ML, it's intelligent sampling that's being implemented. Whereas in contrast, we're seeing Redshift using random sampling. And again, Snowflake, you're having to use a third party library in order to achieve the same capabilities. So I think the differentiation is crystal clear. I think it definitely is refreshing. It's showing that this is where true value can be assigned. And if you don't agree with it, by all means challenge the data. >> Yeah, I want to come to the benchmarks in a minute. By the way, you know, the gentleman who's the Oracle's architect, he did a great job on the call yesterday explaining what you have to do. I thought that was quite impressive. But Bob, I know you follow the financials pretty closely and on the earnings call earlier this month, Ellison said that, "We're going to see HeatWave on AWS." And the skeptic in me said, oh, they must not be getting people to come to OCI. And then they, you remember this chart they showed yesterday that showed the growth of HeatWave on OCI. But of course there was no data on there, it was just sort of, you know, lines up and to the right. So what do you guys think of that? (Marc laughs) Does it signal Bob, desperation by Oracle that they can't get traction on OCI, or is it just really a smart tame expansion move? What do you think? >> Yeah, Dave, that's a great question. You know, along the way there, and you know, just inside of that was something that said Ellison said on earnings call that spoke to a different sort of philosophy or mindset, almost Marc, where he said, "We're going to make this multicloud," right? With a lot of their other cloud stuff, if you wanted to use any of Oracle's cloud software, you had to use Oracle's infrastructure, OCI, there was no other way out of it. But this one, but I thought it was a classic Ellison line. He said, "Well, we're making this available on AWS. We're making this available, you know, on Snowflake because we're going after those users. And once they see what can be done here." So he's looking at it, I guess you could say, it's a concession to customers because they want multi-cloud. The other way to look at it, it's a hunting expedition and it's one of those uniquely I think Oracle ways. He said up front, right, he doesn't say, "Well, there's a big market, there's a lot for everybody, we just want on our slice." Said, "No, we are going after Amazon, we're going after Redshift, we're going after Aurora. We're going after these users of Snowflake and so on." And I think it's really fairly refreshing these days to hear somebody say that, because now if I'm a buyer, I can look at that and say, you know, to Marc's point, "Do they measure up, do they crack that threshold ceiling? Or is this just going to be more pain than a few dollars savings is worth?" But you look at those numbers that Ron pointed out and that we all saw in that chart. I've never seen Dave, anything like that. In a substantive market, a new player coming in here, and being able to establish differences that are four, seven, eight, 10, 12 times better than competition. And as new buyers look at that, they're going to say, "What the hell are we doing paying, you know, five times more to get a poor result? What's going on here?" So I think this is going to rattle people and force a harder, closer look at what these alternatives are. >> I wonder if the guy, thank you. Let's just skip ahead of the benchmarks guys, bring up the next slide, let's skip ahead a little bit here, which talks to the benchmarks and the benchmarking if we can. You know, David Floyer, the sort of semiretired, you know, Wikibon analyst said, "Dave, this is going to force Amazon and others, Snowflake," he said, "To rethink actually how they architect databases." And this is kind of a compilation of some of the data that they shared. They went after Redshift mostly, (laughs) but also, you know, as I say, Snowflake, BigQuery. And, like I said, you can always tell which companies are doing well, 'cause Oracle will come after you, but they're on the radar here. (laughing) Holgar should we take this stuff seriously? I mean, or is it, you know, a grain salt? What are your thoughts here? >> I think you have to take it seriously. I mean, that's a great question, great point on that. Because like Ron said, "If there's a flaw in a benchmark, we know this database traditionally, right?" If anybody came up that, everybody will be, "Oh, you put the wrong benchmark, it wasn't audited right, let us do it again," and so on. We don't see this happening, right? So kudos to Oracle to be aggressive, differentiated, and seem to having impeccable benchmarks. But what we really see, I think in my view is that the classic and we can talk about this in 100 years, right? Is the suite versus best of breed, right? And the key question of the suite, because the suite's always slower, right? No matter at which level of the stack, you have the suite, then the best of breed that will come up with something new, use a cloud, put the data warehouse on steroids and so on. The important thing is that you have to assess as a buyer what is the speed of my suite vendor. And that's what you guys mentioned before as well, right? Marc said that and so on, "Like, this is a third release in one year of the HeatWave team, right?" So everybody in the database open source Marc, and there's so many MySQL spinoffs to certain point is put on shine on the speed of (indistinct) team, putting out fundamental changes. And the beauty of that is right, is so inherent to the Oracle value proposition. Larry's vision of building the IBM of the 21st century, right from the Silicon, from the chip all the way across the seven stacks to the click of the user. And that what makes the database what Rob was saying, "Tied to the OCI infrastructure," because designed for that, it runs uniquely better for that, that's why we see the cross connect to Microsoft. HeatWave so it's different, right? Because HeatWave runs on cheap hardware, right? Which is the breadth and butter 886 scale of any cloud provider, right? So Oracle probably needs it to scale OCI in a different category, not the expensive side, but also allow us to do what we said before, the multicloud capability, which ultimately CIOs really want, because data gravity is real, you want to operate where that is. If you have a fast, innovative offering, which gives you more functionality and the R and D speed is really impressive for the space, puts away bad results, then it's a good bet to look at. >> Yeah, so you're saying, that we versus best of breed. I just want to sort of play back then Marc a comment. That suite versus best of breed, there's always been that trade off. If I understand you Holgar you're saying that somehow Oracle has magically cut through that trade off and they're giving you the best of both. >> It's the developing velocity, right? The provision of important features, which matter to buyers of the suite vendor, eclipses the best of breed vendor, then the best of breed vendor is in the hell of a potential job. >> Yeah, go ahead Marc. >> Yeah and I want to add on what Holgar just said there. I mean the worst job in the data center is data movement, moving the data sucks. I don't care who you are, nobody likes it. You never get any kudos for doing it well, and you always get the ah craps, when things go wrong. So it's in- >> In the data center Marc all the time across data centers, across cloud. That's where the bleeding comes. >> It's right, you get beat up all the time. So nobody likes to move data, ever. So what you're looking at with what they announce with HeatWave and what I love about HeatWave is it doesn't matter when you started with it, you get all the additional features they announce it's part of the service, all the time. But they don't have to move any of the data. You want to analyze the data that's in your transactional, MySQL database, it's there. You want to do machine learning models, it's there, there's no data movement. The data movement is the key thing, and they just eliminate that, in so many ways. And the other thing I wanted to talk about is on the benchmarks. As great as those benchmarks are, they're really conservative 'cause they're underestimating the cost of that data movement. The ETLs, the other services, everything's left out. It's just comparing HeatWave, MySQL cloud service with HeatWave versus Redshift, not Redshift and Aurora and Glue, Redshift and Redshift ML and SageMaker, it's just Redshift. >> Yeah, so what you're saying is what Oracle's doing is saying, "Okay, we're going to run MySQL HeatWave benchmarks on analytics against Redshift, and then we're going to run 'em in transaction against Aurora." >> Right. >> But if you really had to look at what you would have to do with the ETL, you'd have to buy two different data stores and all the infrastructure around that, and that goes away so. >> Due to the nature of the competition, they're running narrow best of breed benchmarks. There is no suite level benchmark (Dave laughs) because they created something new. >> Well that's you're the earlier point they're beating best of breed with a suite. So that's, I guess to Floyer's earlier point, "That's going to shake things up." But I want to come back to Bob Evans, 'cause I want to tap your Cloud Wars mojo before we wrap. And line up the horses, you got AWS, you got Microsoft, Google and Oracle. Now they all own their own cloud. Snowflake, Mongo, Couchbase, Redis, Cockroach by the way they're all doing very well. They run in the cloud as do many others. I think you guys all saw the Andreessen, you know, commentary from Sarah Wang and company, to talk about the cost of goods sold impact of cloud. So owning your own cloud has to be an advantage because other guys like Snowflake have to pay cloud vendors and negotiate down versus having the whole enchilada, Safra Catz's dream. Bob, how do you think this is going to impact the market long term? >> Well, Dave, that's a great question about, you know, how this is all going to play out. If I could mention three things, one, Frank Slootman has done a fantastic job with Snowflake. Really good company before he got there, but since he's been there, the growth mindset, the discipline, the rigor and the phenomenon of what Snowflake has done has forced all these bigger companies to really accelerate what they're doing. And again, it's an example of how this intense competition makes all the different cloud vendors better and it provides enormous value to customers. Second thing I wanted to mention here was look at the Adam Selipsky effect at AWS, took over in the middle of May, and in Q2, Q3, Q4, AWS's growth rate accelerated. And in each of those three quotas, they grew faster than Microsoft's cloud, which has not happened in two or three years, so they're closing the gap on Microsoft. The third thing, Dave, in this, you know, incredibly intense competitive nature here, look at Larry Ellison, right? He's got his, you know, the product that for the last two or three years, he said, "It's going to help determine the future of the company, autonomous database." You would think he's the last person in the world who's going to bring in, you know, in some ways another database to think about there, but he has put, you know, his whole effort and energy behind this. The investments Oracle's made, he's riding this horse really hard. So it's not just a technology achievement, but it's also an investment priority for Oracle going forward. And I think it's going to form a lot of how they position themselves to this new breed of buyer with a new type of need and expectations from IT. So I just think the next two or three years are going to be fantastic for people who are lucky enough to get to do the sorts of things that we do. >> You know, it's a great point you made about AWS. Back in 2018 Q3, they were doing about 7.4 billion a quarter and they were growing in the mid forties. They dropped down to like 29% Q4, 2020, I'm looking at the data now. They popped back up last quarter, last reported quarter to 40%, that is 17.8 billion, so they more doubled and they accelerated their growth rate. (laughs) So maybe that pretends, people are concerned about Snowflake right now decelerating growth. You know, maybe that's going to be different. By the way, I think Snowflake has a different strategy, the whole data cloud thing, data sharing. They're not trying to necessarily take Oracle head on, which is going to make this next 10 years, really interesting. All right, we got to go, last question. 30 seconds or less, what can we expect from the future of data platforms? Matt, please start. >> I have to go first again? You're killing me, Dave. (laughing) In the next few years, I think you're going to see the major players continue to meet customers where they are, right. Every organization, every environment is, you know, kind of, we use these words bespoke in Snowflake, pardon the pun, but Snowflakes, right. But you know, they're all opinionated and unique and what's great as an IT person is, you know, there is a service for me regardless of where I am on my journey, in my data management journey. I think you're going to continue to see with regards specifically to Oracle, I think you're going to see the company continue along this path of being all things to all people, if you will, or all organizations without sacrificing, you know, kind of richness of features and sacrificing who they are, right. Look, they are the data kings, right? I mean, they've been a database leader for an awful long time. I don't see that going away any time soon and I love the innovative spirit they've brought in with HeatWave. >> All right, great thank you. Okay, 30 seconds, Holgar go. >> Yeah, I mean, the interesting thing that we see is really that trend to autonomous as Oracle calls or self-driving software, right? So the database will have to do more things than just store the data and support the DVA. It will have to show it can wide insights, the whole upside, it will be able to show to one machine learning. We haven't really talked about that. How in just exciting what kind of use case we can get of machine learning running real time on data as it changes, right? So, which is part of the E5 announcement, right? So we'll see more of that self-driving nature in the database space. And because you said we can promote it, right. Check out my report about HeatWave latest release where I post in oracle.com. >> Great, thank you for that. And Bob Evans, please. You're great at quick hits, hit us. >> Dave, thanks. I really enjoyed getting to hear everybody's opinion here today and I think what's going to happen too. I think there's a new generation of buyers, a new set of CXO influencers in here. And I think what Oracle's done with this, MySQL HeatWave, those benchmarks that Ron talked about so eloquently here that is going to become something that forces other companies, not just try to get incrementally better. I think we're going to see a massive new wave of innovation to try to play catch up. So I really take my hat off to Oracle's achievement from going to, push everybody to be better. >> Excellent. Marc Staimer, what do you say? >> Sure, I'm going to leverage off of something Matt said earlier, "Those companies that are going to develop faster, cheaper, simpler products that are going to solve customer problems, IT problems are the ones that are going to succeed, or the ones who are going to grow. The one who are just focused on the technology are going to fall by the wayside." So those who can solve more problems, do it more elegantly and do it for less money are going to do great. So Oracle's going down that path today, Snowflake's going down that path. They're trying to do more integration with third party, but as a result, aiming at that simpler, faster, cheaper mentality is where you're going to continue to see this market go. >> Amen brother Marc. >> Thank you, Ron Westfall, we'll give you the last word, bring us home. >> Well, thank you. And I'm loving it. I see a wave of innovation across the entire cloud database ecosystem and Oracle is fueling it. We are seeing it, with the native integration of auto ML capabilities, elastic scaling, lower entry price points, et cetera. And this is just going to be great news for buyers, but also developers and increased use of open APIs. And so I think that is really the key takeaways. Just we're going to see a lot of great innovation on the horizon here. >> Guys, fantastic insights, one of the best power panel as I've ever done. Love to have you back. Thanks so much for coming on today. >> Great job, Dave, thank you. >> All right, and thank you for watching. This is Dave Vellante for theCube and we'll see you next time. (soft music)

(soft upbeat music) >> TheCUBE's back on day three here in Cloud City, Mobile World Congress. This is where all the action is and this is theCUBE's set, I'm John with Dave Vellante. We're here with DR, Danielle Royston, who is the CEO of TelcoDR, as well as the CEO of Totogi. Great to see you again. >> Hey. >> Hey, how are you guys? >> Good >> Great time, great booth last night, good industry executives. A lot of intimate high player, big players here in the industry, even though not a lot of attendance, but the right people are here and events are back. >> Yeah. I think, MWC was the first event to cancel with COVID in end of February 2020. So first big event to come back, it's such a nice symmetry. Typically you have big delegations, hundreds of people from the big groups coming to the show. We're seeing the executives are coming, smaller delegations, but they're all in the booth and that we're having great conversations and it's awesome. >> Yeah. And the thing I will say is that theCUBE's back too we'd like them to be in here in the action, because one of the things that's happened with this hybrid events is that people are watching. And so there's a virtual space and the physical space, and Cloud City has built out paradise, it's beautiful and spectacular behind us. If you look around for the people who can't see, it's really made for the combination of onsite and virtual experience. The content, the people Bon Jovi last night, it's just the top of Mobile World Congress. And it's translating to the industry, this has been amazing. So congratulations. >> Danielle: Thanks so much. >> Dave: I think I got to say, you have a lot to say as we all know. But I think it was easy for the big guys. >> Danielle: Can't Shut me up. (chuckles) >> That's why we love you in theCUBE. But I think it was easy for the big guys to tap out and say, Hey, we're going to save a bunch more money, we don't really have much to talk about. We're going to talk about again. Hey, let's talk about 5G. (chuckles) >> It's a revolution >> Have I told you about 5G though. >> Whereas the narrative here is all about the future and it's not about the future of blah-blah-blah, it's about the future, this is the journey that we're taking and here's where it's starting, and with meat on the bone. >> Yeah. I think what's really interesting about Cloud City is the fact that we've brought these different players together that they're all focused, as you said, on the future. And I'm starting to see these connections where they're collaborating. Like, vendors that didn't know each other probably would never have partnered before, totally different areas. I'm hearing the conversation in the booth about like, Hey, I talked to people in security, or I went and talked to LMX and we're putting deals together 'cause we're complimentary and it's amazing. >> John: And integration partnership, heard that from Google yesterday on our news exclusive break in there, they see integration. And they're talking about Android with what Android did for mobile. They're seeing a whole new software paradigm coming into Telco, it's partnership, it's ecosystem and open. These are new kind of dynamics. >> Danielle: And I think for you guys, when you say integration and open, I think those things are really paired in and they're important. A lot of times Telco people will hear integration, they all think customization. Coding it up and customizing it, so that they talk to each other. But I think the open part of that is really important where we're connecting via API's and I think that's bringing the hyper-scalers, that's what they do. They provide these systems and the software, that's all API base and you can use it very quickly, and you can unravel it if you need to. And it's feature velocity we talked about a couple of days ago. >> And automation is the underpinning of that. I mean, that's really the theme, it's not like a one-off hardcore custom integration that's going to be frozen. >> Danielle: One time to upgrade every 18 months or whatever it is, it's alive. >> Dave: How about Musk yesterday? >> John: I mean, he's always a crowd pleaser. First of all, my kids love him. He's crazy. >> Who doesn't love Elon Musk? >> I mean, he is amazing. He's a builder. And he takes no prisoners. He's just, you know what? My goal was not to go bankrupt. That's what he said a couple of years ago. >> Dave: Which was brilliant because everybody's gone bankrupt in that business and he's just blows it off. >> And he's just like, look it, we're here to just want to chip away at it and we're just going to keep striving, not making up excuses. He takes the failures, he takes the face plants, he gets back up and he keeps going. He's focused on building the future. >> He's focused on one thing, he's on focused everything. He's focused on getting to Mars. And I think that's what I like to compare myself to Elon Musk, not that I'm building rockets or getting to Mars, but that the hard problem that I'm solving is getting Telco to the public cloud. And that's going to take a decade. It might have been accelerated because of COVID, it might've taken 20 years and now it might take 10, but you look at what he does and that guy, he has haters on Twitter they're kind of pew pew, always like throw in their bars, but he's like, I got my rocket company, I got my communication and space company. We're going to need to bore a holes, The Boring Company. I need batteries, I got my Tesla company. And so this guy focuses. >> John: He's got some haters, but he's got a lot more lovers on his other side because people might not know this, but he fires the entire PR department because he's like, I don't need PR I'm just going to go do my own, his own PR. Actually the crypto stuff's always fun, Dogecoins are always a laugh. >> Danielle: I think he just plays around with that. >> And it's just more of like playing. >> Dave Vellante: And that's like, watch this! (laughs) >> He just like to see what he can do. >> I said that live was interesting thing he did, but I think he illustrates the point of a new generation. And I think my young kids, not young, they're in their '20s now, they look at him and they say, that's aspirational because he's building and he's not, he's focused on that one thing. And again, the growth that you mentioned Telco to the cloud, getting back to that, I want to ask you this growth question. It used to be like, okay, growth was there, people expanded cell towers, networks were networks, now it seems like the growth of Telco, what Telco is going into with Edge and all the open ranch stuff, which means that we need more infrastructure. We need more stuff, there's more needed and there's growth behind them. What's your reaction? >> Danielle: I think we need more software. Software eats the world. And it's, I mean, there was a lot of hardware to chomp in Telco and it's just going to keep eating it, and that's just going to accelerate. I that's where Telcos need to start to build that muscle. They don't have great software capability, they don't have public cloud building capability. And so that's a big up-skilling that's a new hiring and I think it's an executive conversation. It's not just an IT thing or just a marketing thing, or networking thing. >> Dave: I got to chime in here for a second because there are a lot of parallels with how the data center transition has occurred. And what's happening here. We talk about all the time, Oh, it's a mainframe, et cetera. There are parallels. And what happened when the data center went to software-defined a whole bunch of hardware was allocated to run all the software-defined stuff. It wasn't built for that, but the cloud, what you guys are doing with Togi and taken advantage of AWS's Nitro and Graviton. That's built to be software-defined. And so the Telcos are going to go through the same thing. If they just virtualized, they're going to say, oh wow, we're wasting 30% of our power our compute power on just supporting all this software-defined stuff, 'cause it wasn't built for that, but the cloud is built for that. And that is going to be a huge difference. >> Danielle: And I keep trying to make this distinction and I think people in Telco still don't get this about the public cloud. They think of it as a place. It's a place to run a workload. And that tells me, they think of it as infrastructure. They think of it as servers still like, well, I'm going to run into my closet or AWS' has closet. I'm like, and I was just having a conversation about this with a senior person from GSMA. I'm like, it's actually about the software that's there, it's about the databases they're building and the analytics and the AI, and ML that they let you buy by the minutes or by the API call. And that is like, you need to think about that 'cause it's mind blowing, it's a totally different way to think. >> John: You're totally right. And just going to again, give you props on this. I've had many ones with Andy Jackson for the past seven years for exclusives, but over the years it's been consistent. Each platform lifting and shift wasn't the end game. Re-platforming in the cloud certainly a great advantage, a great starting point. It was the refactoring. And that's why you see Amazon Web Services for instance, keep adding more services 'cause that's the model. They keep offering more goodness so that the businesses could refactor, not just re-platform. And that's what you're getting, I think with the AI and machine learning, where you start getting into these new use cases, but why couldn't do that before? >> Danielle: Right. >> This is going to be a huge game changer. >> Well Forrest Brazeal, a great guy, a cloud guru wrote a great blog called a lift-and-shift is a ticking time bomb. And it's a great start to get your stuff over there, it forces your team to start to interact with like, an AWS or GCP in a real way like now they, they got to use it. You take it away and I'm like, but once you move it you got to re-factor you got to rewrite and then that's why it's a ticking time bomb. You got to move it over and get going. >> John: You know, Royston DR, Digital Revolution of you are one, you got it here TelcoDR and this has been a great experience for theCUBE as we get back to business with real life events and virtual, the folks who couldn't make it here, Barcelona is still a great city, obviously a great place to come and the events will be back, they'll be hybrid, they'll be different. certainly theCUBE will lay, doubling down, but we've got a great video. I want to share for the group, the Barcelona and Cloud City, this is a montage of what it's like here and little experiential video. So take it away and run that video. (slow upbeat music) (upbeat music) >> Hi, I'm Katie Goldfinch here in Barcelona for an action packed day two at TelcoDR's Cloud City. This morning, the focus was firmly on DR and her MWC keynote which told Telco execs in no uncertain terms that now is the time to act on embracing public cloud. Back in Cloud City, content ruled the day with both theCUBE and Cloud City live stages, hosting public cloud thought-leaders, covering a wide range of topics to educate and inspire attendees. And in the beautiful space of Cloud City, the excitement grew throughout the day as we streamed MWC's exclusive keynotes from Elon Musk. And preparations got underway for tonight's star performer, Jon Bon Jovi. (upbeat music) >> Katie: Wow! What an amazing day from groundbreaking keynotes into space and back to a star studded performance. Don't forget, you can catch up on anything you missed and join us for the rest of the week at cloudcity.telcodr.com or following #cloudcity. (slow upbeat music) >> OK we're back, that was great look at what's going on here in Cloud City, this next video DR, you're going to love this. Your keynote highlights and some Bon Jovi highlights, which by the way, was the most epic thing, people were packed, >> Dave: It was exciting. >> This place was packed. It had the security, clicking peoples, counting all the people, people are standing back. All the people on their booths, they're all coming in to watch. >> Dave: He was pumped. >> Let's take a look at this awesome highlight video from yesterday. (slow upbeat music) (upbeat music) (slow upbeat music) >> Okay. We're back to theCUBE. Dave, that was a highlight reel yesterday. DR has got some action on stage, great messaging, revolution, digital revolution. >> You know your comment about how you think like Elon Musk, that's an inspiration from it. I mean, what a lot of people don't know is when you look at autonomous vehicles, remember you're driving down Palo Alto, you see one of those LIDAR things, he's doing away with LIDARs, it's too expensive. It's $7,000, he's taking it with cheap cameras and software down to a couple of hundred bucks per vehicle, that's the way he thinks and you're doing the same thing to Telco. >> Danielle: I am. I'm trying to change Telco. I mean, he's changing the world. He might be one of the most important humans on earth right now. I don't think I'm exactly that level, but I'm trying to become a really important person in Telco, we have this great message. I think it's going to help Telcos to get better businesses ad I think it's a great idea. >> John: For the folks out there watching, what is that big change? You're going to drive down this Cloud City street, main street of Cloud City and just all about cloud. 'Cause public clouds here, it's going to become hybrid dynamics, operating models are changing. What is the key message that you'd like to send? >> I think all of the software in Telco needs to be re-written. And that's how many millions of lines of code is that and it's going to be shrunk down, and put out on public cloud, and re-written using the software legos of the public cloud, that is a big undertaking. No one's working on it. I'm working on it. I'm doing it. Let's go do it. >> John: Let's do it. And if you look out a couple of years, what would be a successful, what does checkmate look like in these chess game that you play? >> (chuckles) I'm winning, hashtag winning. (laughs and crosstalk) I think it takes, again, it takes singular focus like Elon Musk on Mars. Somebody needs to singularly focus on getting to the public cloud and you can't sit there, and protect your old business models, your CR revenue if you're Amdocs, give that up. When they start to give up their CR revenue to focus on public cloud, then they'll be, okay there's a worthy adversary out there really focusing on it. >> John: I mean the late Clay Christianson had all the same things. Innovator's dilemma. You just get stuck here, what do you do? You kill your own, you eat your own to bring in the new, I mean, all these things are going on, this is a huge test. >> Danielle: If we're willing to burn some boats. >> I think it's transparency, simplicity, and the consumer saying, Hey, this is a great experience. that's the tell sign. And that's what we're going to see over this next decade. >> Consumers love their Telco, I can't wait for that I want to love my Telco. >> Dave: Like you love Netflix. >> Yes, exactly. >> DR, we love you because you've got a bold vision. You put it out there and you're driving it. You're walking the talk. Congratulations. And again, Cloud City is a home run, great success. Thanks for having theCUBE. >> Thank you guys as always, super fun. Great day. >> Okay. TheCUBE's coverage here and remember we're here getting all the action, and it's all going to go online after, synchronous consumption. But right now, it's all about Mobile World Congress and Cloud City. This is the action. And of course, Adam in Cloud City Studio, is waiting for us and you're going to take it from here.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE. With digital coverage of AWS reInvent Executive Summit 2020, sponsored by Accenture and AWS. >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS reInvent 2020. This is special programming for the Accenture Executive Summit where all the thought leaders are going to extract the signal from those share with you their perspective of this year's reInvent conference as it respects the customers' digital transformation. Brian Bohan is the director and head of Accenture, AWS Business Group at Amazon web services. Brian, great to see you. And Chris Wegmann is the Accenture Amazon Business Group technology lead at Accenture. Guys this is about technology vision this conversation. Chris, I want to start with you because you're Andy Jackson's keynote. You heard about the strategy of digital transformation, how you got to lean into it. You got to have the guts to go for it and you got to decompose. He went everywhere.(chuckles) So what did you hear? What was striking about the keynote? Because he covered a lot of topics. >> Yeah. It was epic as always from Andy. Lot of topics, a lot to cover in the three hours. There was a couple of things that stood out for me. First of all, hybrid. The concept, the new concept of hybrid and how Andy talked about it, bringing the compute and the power to all parts of an enterprise, whether it be at the edge or are in the big public cloud, whether it be in an Outpost or wherever it'd be, right with containerization now. Being able to do Amazon containerization in my data center and that's awesome. I think that's going to make a big difference. All that being underneath the Amazon console and billing and things like that, which is great. I'll also say the chips, right? I know computer is always something that we always kind of take for granted but I think again, this year, Amazon and Andy really focused on what they're doing with the chips and compute and the compute is still at the heart of everything in cloud. And that continued advancement is making an impact and will make and continue to make a big impact. >> Yeah, I would agree. I think one of the things that really... I mean the container thing was I think really kind of a nuance point. When you've got Deepak Singh on the opening day with Andy Jassy and he runs a container group over there. When we need a small little team, he's on the front stage. That really is the key to the hybrid. I think this showcases this new layer. We're taking advantage of the Graviton2 chips, which I thought was huge. Brian, this is really a key part of the platform change, not change, but the continuation of AWS. Higher level servers, >> Yep. building blocks that provide more capabilities, heavy lifting as they say but the new services that are coming on top really speaks to hybrid and speaks to the edge. >> It does. Yeah. I think like Andy talks about and we talked about we really want to provide choice to our customers, first and foremost. And you can see that in the array of services we have, we can see it in the the hybrid options that Chris talked about. Being able to run your containers through ECS or EKS anywhere. It just get to the customers choice. And one of the things that I'm excited about as you talk about going up the stack and on the edge are things, most certainly Outpost, right? So now Outpost was launched last year but then with the new form factors and then you look at services like Panorama, right? Being able to take computer vision and embed machine learning and computer vision, and do that as a managed capability at the edge for customers. And so we see this across a number of industries. And so what we're really thinking about is customers no longer have to make trade-offs and have to think about those choices, that they can really deploy natively in the cloud and then they can take those capabilities, train those models, and then deploy them where they need to whether that's on premises or at the edge, whether it be in a factory or retail environment. I think we're really well positioned when hopefully next year we start seeing the travel industry rebound and the need more than ever really to kind of rethink about how we kind of monitor and make those environments safe. Having this kind of capability at the edge is really going to help our customers as we come out of this year and hopefully rebound next year. >> Chris, I want to go back to you for a second. It's hard to pick your favorite innovation from the keynote because, Brian, just reminded me of some things I forgot happened. It was like a buffet of innovation. Some keynotes have one or two, there was like 20. You got the industrial piece that was huge. Computer vision, machine learning, that's just a game changer. The connect thing came out of nowhere in my opinion. I mean, it's a call center technology so it's boring as hell, what are you going to do with that?(Brian and Chris chuckle) It turns out it's a game changer. It's not about the calls but the contact and that's distant intermediating in the stack as well. So again, a feature that looks old is actually new and relevant. What was your favorite innovation announcement? >> It's hard to say. I will say my personal favorite was the Mac OS. I think that is a phenomenal just addition, right? And the fact that AWS has worked with Apple to integrate the Nitro chip into the iMac and offer that out. A lot of people are doing development for IOS and that stuff and that's just been a huge benefit for the development teams. But I will say, I'll come back to Connect. You mentioned it but you're right. It's a boring area but it's an area that we've seen huge success with since Connect was launched and the additional features that Amazon continues to bring, obviously with the pandemic and now that customer engagement through the phone, through omni-channel has just been critical for companies, right? And to be able to have those agents at home, working from home versus being in the office, it was a huge advantage for several customers that are using Connect. We did some great stuff with some different customers but the continue technology like you said, the call translation and during a call to be able to pop up those keywords and have a supervisor listen is awesome. And some of that was already being done but we are stitching multiple services together. Now that's right out of the box. And that Google's location is only going to make that go faster and make us to be able to innovate faster for that piece of the business. >> It's interesting not to get all nerdy and business school like but you've got systems of records, systems of engagement. If you look at the call center and the Connect thing, what got my attention was not only the model of disintermediating that part of the engagement in the stack but what actually cloud does to something that's a feature or something that could be an element like say call center, the old days of calling the 800 number and getting some support. You got infra chip, you have machine learning, you actually have stuff in the in the stack that actually makes that different now. The thing that impressed me was Andy was saying, you could have machine learning detect pauses, voice inflections. So now you have technology making that more relevant and better and different. So a lot going on. This is just one example of many things that are happening from a disruption innovation standpoint. What do you guys think about that? Am I getting it right? Can you share other examples? >> I think you are right and I think what's implied there and what you're saying and even in the other Mac OS example is the ability... We're talking about features, right? Which by themselves you're saying, Oh, wow! What's so unique about that? But because it's on AWS and now because whether you're a developer working with Mac iOS and you have access to the 175 plus services that you can then weave into your new application. Talk about the Connect scenario. Now we're embedding that kind of inference and machine learning to do what you say, but then your data Lake is also most likely running in AWS, right? And then the other channels whether they be mobile channels or web channels or in-store physical channels, that data can be captured and that same machine learning could be applied there to get that full picture across the spectrum, right? So that's the power of bringing you together on AWS, the access to all those different capabilities and services and then also where the data is and pulling all that together for that end to end view. >> Can you guys give some examples of work you've done together? I know there's stuff we've reported on, in the last session we talked about some of the connect stuff but that kind of encapsulates where this is all going with respect to the tech. >> Yeah. I think one of them, it was called out on Doug's Partner Summit is a SAP Data Lake Accelerator, right? Almost every enterprise has SAP, right? And getting data out of SAP has always been a challenge, right? Whether it be through data warehouses and AWS, or sorry, SAP BW. What we've focused on is getting that data when you have SAP on AWS, getting that data into the Data Lake, right? Getting it into a model that you can pull the value out and the customers can pull the value out, use those AI models. So that's one thing we worked on in the last 12 months. Super excited about seeing great success with customers. A lot of customers had ideas. They want to do this, they had different models. What we've done is made it very simplified. Framework which allows customers to do it very quickly, get the data out there and start getting value out of it and iterating on that data. We saw customers are spending way too much time trying to stitch it all together and trying to get it to work technically. And we've now cut all of that out and they can immediately start getting down to the data and taking advantage of those different services that are out there by AWS. >> Brian, you want to weigh in as things you see as relevant builds that you guys done together that kind of tease out the future and connect the dots to what's coming? >> I'm going to use a customer example. We worked with, it just came out, with Unilever around their blue air, connected, smart air purifier. And what I think is interesting about that, I think it touches on some of the themes we're talking about as well as some of the themes we talked about in the last session, which is we started that program before the pandemic, but Unilever recognized that they needed to differentiate their product in the marketplace, move to more of a services oriented business which we're seeing as a trend. We enabled this capability. So now it's a smart air purifier that can be remote managed. And now when the pandemic hit, they are in a really good position, obviously, with a very relevant product and capability to be used. And so, that data then as we were talking about is going to reside on the cloud. And so the learning that can now happen about usage and about filter changes, et cetera can find its way back into future iterations of that picked out that product. And I think that's keeping with what Chris is talking about where we might be systems of record like in SAP, how do we bring those in and then start learning from that data so that we can get better on our future iterations? >> Hey, Chris, on the last segment we did on the business mission session, Andy Tay from your team talked about partnerships within a century and working with other folks. I want to take that now on the technical side because one of the things that we heard from Doug's keynote and during the partner day was integrations and data were two big themes. When you're in the cloud technically, the integrations are different. You're going to get unique things in the public cloud that you're just not going to get on-premise access to other cloud native technologies and companies. How do you see the partnering of Accenture with people within your ecosystem and how the data and the integration play together? What's your vision? >> Yeah. I think there's two parts of it. One there's from a commercial standpoint, right? Some marketplace, you heard Dave talk about that in the partner summit, right? That marketplace is now bringing together this ecosystem in a very easy way to consume by the customers and by the users and bringing multiple partners together. And we're working with our ecosystem to put more products out in the marketplace that are integrated together already. I think one from a technical perspective though. If you look at Salesforce, I talked a little earlier about Connect. Another good example technically underneath the covers, how we've integrated Connect and Salesforce, some of it being pre-built by AWS and Salesforce, other things that we've added on top of it, I think are good examples. And I think as these ecosystems these ISVs put their products out there and start exposing more and more APIs on the Amazon platform may opening it up, having those pre-built network connections there between the different VPCs of the different areas within within a customer's network and having them all opened up and connected and having all that networking done underneath the covers. It's one thing to call the APIs, it's one thing to have access to those and that's not a big focus of a lot of ISVs and customers who build those APIs and expose them but having that network infrastructure underneath and being able to stay within the cloud, within AWS to make those connections that pass that data. We always talk about scale, right? It's one thing if I just need to pass like a simple user ID back and forth, right? That's fine. We're not talking massive data sets, whether it be seismic data or whatever it be, passing those large data sets between customers across the Amazon network is going to open up the world. >> Yeah, I see huge possibilities there and love to keep on this story. I think it's going to be important and something to keep track of. I'm sure you guys will be on top of it. One of the things I want to dig into with you guys now is Andy had kind of this philosophical thing in his keynote talk about societal change and how tough the pandemic is. Everything's on full display and this kind of brings out kind of like where we are and the truth. If you look at the truth it's a virtual event. I mean, it's a website and you got some sessions out there, we're doing remote best we can and you've got software and you've got technology and the other concept of a mechanism, it's software, it does something It does a purpose. Accenture, you guys have a concept called Living Systems where growth strategy powered by technology. How do you take the concept of a living organism or a system and replace the mechanism staleness of computing and software? And this is kind of interesting because we're on the cusp of a major inflection point post COVID. I get the digital transformation being slow. That's yes, that's happening. There's other things going on in society. What do you guys think about this Living Systems concept? Yeah. I'll start. I think the living system concept, it started out very much thinking about how do you rapidly change your system, right? And because of cloud, because of DevOps, because of all these software technologies and processes that we've created, that's where it started making it much easier, make it a much faster being able to change rapidly. But you're right. I think if you now bring in more technologies, the AI technology, self-healing technologies. Again, you heard Andy in his keynote talk about the systems and services they're building to detect problems and resolve those problems, right? Obviously automation is a big part of that. Living Systems, being able to bring that all together and to be able to react in real time to either when a customer asks, either through the AI models that have been generated and turning those AI models around much faster and being able to get all the information that came in the last 20 minutes, right? Society is moving fast and changing fast and even in one part of the world, if something in 10 minutes can change. And being able to have systems to react to that, learn from that and be able to pass that on to the next country especially in this world of COVID and things changing very quickly and diagnosis and medical response all that so quickly to be able to react to that and have systems pass that information, learn from that information is going to be critical. >> That's awesome. Brian, one of the things that comes up every year is, oh, the cloud's scalable. This year I think we've talked on theCUBE before, years ago certainly with the Accenture and Amazon. I think it was like three or four years ago. Yeah. The clouds horizontally scalable but vertically specialized at the application layer. But if you look at the Data Lake stuff that you guys have been doing where you have machine learning, the data is horizontally scalable and then you got the specialization in the app changes the whole vertical thing. You don't need to have a whole vertical solution or do you? So, how has this year's cloud news impacted vertical industries? Because it used to be, oh, oil and gas, financial services. They've got a team for that. We got a stack for that. Not anymore. Is it going away? What's changing? >> Well. It's a really good question. I think what we're seeing, and I was just on a call this morning talking about banking and capital markets and I do think the challenges are still pretty sector specific. But what we do see is the kind of commonality when we start looking at the, and we talked about this, the industry solutions that we're building as a partnership, most of them follow the pattern of ingesting data, analyzing that data and then being able to provide insights and then actions, right? So if you think about creating that kind of common chassis of that in just the Data Lake and then the machine learning, and you talk about the nuances around SageMaker and being able to manage these models, what changes then really are the very specific industries' algorithms that you're writing, right, within that framework. And so, we're doing a lot and Connect is a good example of this too, where you look at it and yeah, customer service is a horizontal capability that we're building out, but then when you stamp it into insurance or retail banking, or utilities, there are nuances then that we then extend and build so that we meet the unique needs of those industries and that's usually around those models. >> Yeah. I think this year was the first reInvent that I saw real products coming out that actually solved that problem. I mean, it was there last year SageMaker was kind of moving up the stack, but now you have apps embedding machine learning directly in and users don't even know it's in there. I mean, cause this is kind of where it's going, right? I mean-- >> You saw that was in announcements, right? How many announcements where machine learning is just embedded in? I mean, CodeGuru, DevOps Guru, the Panorama we talked about, it's just there. >> Yeah. I mean having that knowledge about the linguistics and the metadata, knowing the business logic, those are important specific use cases for the vertical and you can get to it faster. Chris, how is this changing on the tech side, your perspective? >> Yeah. I keep coming back to AWS and cloud makes it easier, right? All this stuff can be done and some of it has been done, but what Amazon continues to do is make it easier to consume by the developer, by the customer and to actually embed it into applications much easier than it would be if I had to go set up the stack and build it all on them and embed it, right? So it's shortcoming that process and again, as these products continue to mature, right, and some of this stuff is embedded, it makes that process so much faster. It reduces the amount of work required by the developers the engineers to get there. So, I'm expecting you're going to see more of this, right. I think you're going to see more and more of these multi connected services by AWS, that has a lot of the AI ML pre-configured Data Lakes, all that kind of stuff embedded in those services. So you don't have to do it yourself and continue to go up the stack. And we always talk about Amazon's built for builders, right? But, builders have been super specialized and are becoming, as engineers were being asked to be bigger and bigger and to be be able to do more stuff and I think these kind of integrated services are going to help us do that >> And certainly needed more now when you have hybrid edge that they're going to be operating with microservices on a cloud model and with all those advantages that are going to come around the corner for being in the cloud. I mean, I think there's going to be a whole clarity around benefits in the cloud with all these capabilities and benefits. Cloud Guru I think it's my favorite this year because it just points to why that could happen. I mean that happens because of the cloud data.(laughs) If you're on-premise, you may not have a little Cloud Guru. you are going to get more data but they're all different. Edge certainly will come in too. Your vision on the edge, Chris, how you see that evolving for customers because that could be complex, new stuff. How is it going to get easier? >> Yeah. It's super complex now, right? I mean, you got to design for all the different edge 5G protocols are out there and solutions, right? Amazon's simplifying that. Again, I come back to simplification, right? I can build an app that works on any 5G network that's been integrated with AWS, right. I don't have to set up all the different layers to get back to my cloud or back to my my bigger data set. And that's kind of choking. I don't even know where to call the cloud anymore. I got big cloud which is a central and I go down then you've got a cloud at the edge. Right? So what do I call that? >> Brian: It's just really computing.(laughing) Exactly. So, again, I think is this next generation of technology with the edge comes right and we put more and more data at the edge. We're asking for more and more compute at the edge, right? Whether it be industrial or for personal use or consumer use, that processing is going to get more and more intense to be able to maintain under a single console, under a single platform and be able to move the code that I developed across that entire platform, whether I have to go all the way down to the very edge at the 5G level, right, or all the way back into the bigger cloud and how that processing in there, being able to do that seamlessly is going to allow the speed of development that's needed. >> Wow. You guys done a great job and no better time to be a techie or interested in technology or computer science or social science for that matter. This is a really perfect store. A lot of problems to solve, a lot of change happening, positive change opportunities, a lot of great stuff. Final question guys. Five years working together now on this partnership with AWS and Accenture. Congratulations, you guys are in pole position for the next wave coming. What's exciting you guys? Chris, what's on your mind? Brian, what's getting you guys pumped up? >> Well, again, I come back to Andy mentioned it in his keynote, right? We're seeing customers move now, right. Five years ago we knew customers were going to do this. We built a partnership to enable these enterprise customers to make that journey, right? But now, even more we're seeing them move at such great speed, right? Which is super excites me, right? Because I can see... Being in this for a long time now, I can see the value on the other end. We've been wanting to push our customers as fast as they can through the journey and now they're moving. Now they're getting the religion, they're getting there. They see they need to do it to change your business so that's what excites me. It just the excites me, it's just the speed at which we're going to to see the movement. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd agree with that. I mean, I just think getting customers to the cloud is super important work and we're obviously doing that and helping accelerate that. It's what we've been talking about when we're there all the possibilities that become available, right? Through the common data capabilities, the access to the 175 somewhat AWS services. I also think and this is kind of permeated through this week at Re:invent is the opportunity, especially in those industries that do have an industrial aspect, a manufacturing aspect, or a really strong physical aspect of bringing together IT and operational technology and the business with all these capabilities and I think edge and pushing machine learning down to the edge and analytics at the edge is really going to help us do that. And so I'm super excited by all that possibility because I feel like we're just scratching the surface there. >> It's a great time to be building out. and this is the time for reconstruction, reinvention. Big theme, so many storylines in the keynote and the events . It's going to keep us busy here at SiliconANGLE on theCUBE for the next year. Gentlemen, thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it. Thanks. >> Thank you. All right. Great conversation. We're getting technical. We're going to go another 30 minutes A lot to talk about. A lot of storylines here at AWS Re:Invent 2020 at the Accenture Executive Summit. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS >>reinvent 2020 sponsored >>by Intel, AWS and our community partners. Welcome back to the cubes. Virtual coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. It's virtual this year. We're not in person, so we're doing remote interviews. Part of the three weeks we'll be covering wall to wall a lot of great conversations. News to cover and joining me today Off Fresh off the news off Andy Jackson's keynote, We have two great guests here. Jason Kapoor, senior product manager for Accelerated Computing at A. W S and eight time Medina Chief business officer, Havana Labs, which was recently acquired by Intel Folks. Thanks for coming on, gentlemen. Thank you for spending the time for coming on the key. Appreciate it. >>Thanks for having us. >>J Town. So talk about the news, actually. Uh, computers changing. It's being reinvented. That's the theme from Andy's keynote. What did Andy announced? Could you take a minute to explain the announcement? What services? What ap What's gonna be supported? What's this about? Take a minute to explain. >>Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So today >>we >>announced our plans to launch and easy to instance based on hardware accelerators from Havana labs. We expect these businesses to be available in the first time from next year. And these air custom designed for accelerating training off deep learning models, a zoo we all know like training of deep learning models is a really competition. Aly extensive task. Oftentimes it takes too long and cost too much. And we're really excited about getting these instances out of the market as we expect for them to provide up to 40% better price performance. Thani on top of the line GPU instances, >>a lot of improvements. Why did anybody do this? Why heaven or what's the what the working backwards document tell you? What is it customers looking for here is or specific use case? >>Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, over the years, uh, the use of machine learning and deep learning has, like, really skyrocketed, right? So we're seeing companies from all the way like 14, 500 to like start ups just reinventing their business models and use using deep learning more pervasively. Right. So we have companies like Pinterest, you know, you'd use deep learning for content recommendations and object detection to Toyota Research Institute that are advancing the science behind autonomous vehicles. And there's a consistent cream from a lot of these customers that are, you know, innovating in the deep learning space that you know the cost it takes to experiment, train and optimize the deep learning models. It's too high. And, you know, they're looking at us as one of their partners to help them optimize their costs, you know, bring them as well as possible while giving them really performing products and enable them to actually bring their markets, their innovations to market as soon as possible. Right? S o. Do you answer your questions straight on your wants? The working backwards. It's a feedback from customers that they want choice on. They want our help Thio lower. Uh, the amount of compute resources and the cost it takes to train the new planning models. >>Hey, Tom, why don't you weigh in here on Havana and now part of intel? What trends are driving this? What's the motivation? Were you guys fit in? What's your view on this? >>Yeah, So Havana was founded in 2016 to deliver a I processors for the data center and cloud for training and inference deep learning models. So while building chips is hard, building, the software and ecosystem is even harder. So joining forces with intel simply helps us connect the dots. Ever since the acquisition last year, we were able to significantly boost our armed. The resource is, and now we're leveraging inter scale in number of customers and ecosystem and partner support. >>So what's the name of the product? Is there a chip name got? Was it Gowdy is the name? >>Yes, the product is man angle. >>Okay. And so it's gonna be hardware. So it's the hardware software. What's involved? Take us through the product. >>Yes. So Gandhi was designed from the ground up to do one task which is training deep learning models. To do that well, we focus the architectural to aspect efficiency and scalability. The computer architectures is a combination of fully programmable TPC tensile process, of course, and a central g M n G. These DPC course are programmable Villa W seen the machines that we designed with custom instruction, set architecture, er and special functions that will developed specifically for a I. The Gandhi cheap integrates also 32 gigabyte off H B M to memory which makes it easy to port to. For GPU developers, Gandhi is unique in integrating 10 parts of 100 gigabit Internet rocky on cheap. And this is opposed to other architectural, which use proprietary interfaces. So overall, improving the cost performance is achieved through efficiency, namely higher utilization off the computer and memory resource is on cheap and the native integration off the rocky interfaces >>J Town. This is actually interesting, as this is the theme for reinvent. We're seeing it right on stage today. Play out again another command performance by Andy Jassy. Slew of announcements. How does Gowdy fit into the AI portfolio or Amazon strategy? Because what a town saying is it sounds like he's doing the heavy lifting on all this training stuff when people want to just get to the outcome. I mean, the theme has been, just let the product do what they do kind of put stuff under the covers and just let it scale. Is that the theme here is this. >>What does this >>all fit in? Take us through how this fits into the A, I strategy for Amazon and also what what what is Havana Intel bring to the table? >>Absolutely. Yeah. So with respect to our overall strategy and portfolio units, it's relatively straightforward, right? So we're laser focused on making sure we have the broadest and deepest portfolio off services for machine learning, right? So these range from infrastructure services specifically compute networking and storage all the way up to, like, managed and all services, which come with pre trained models and customers can simply invoke them using an A P. I call right eso. So from a strategy perspective, you want to make sure that we provide a customer to a choice, uh, enable them to pick the right platform for the right use case, help them get to the Khan structure they actually want, right eso with Havana. And you know, their acquisition with Intel, we finally have access to hardware software and the ability to kind of build out a ecosystem beyond what you know judicially is being used. Which is was a GP used right eso. So the engagement with with Havana, you know, allows us to take their products and capabilities, wrap it around, and easy to instance, which is what customers will be able to launch right on doing so. We're enabling them to tap into the innovation that Teton the rest of the Havana team are working on while having a solution that is integrated with the full AWS stack. Right? So you don't you don't have to rack in stock hard. Bring your data center thes. They're gonna be available standard. Easy to instances. You can just click and launch them. Get access to software that's already pre integrated and big den and ready to go right. Eso so it actually comes down to taking their innovations, coupling it with an AWS solution and making it too easy for customers together. I've been running with the respective training the deepened models. >>Well, here is the question that I want to get to. I think everyone's on everyone's mind is how is it Gowdy different or similar than other GPU? Specifically, you mentioned the software stack on the AWS What you get the software stack inside the chip. How is this different or similar? Two other GP use. And what's the difference between the software stack versus a traditional libraries? >>So from day one, we were focused on the software experience and we were mindful in the need to make it easy for developers to use the innovations we have in the hardware. Most developers, if not all of them, are using deep learning frameworks such as tensile flowing pytorch for building their deep learning models. So God is synapse AI software suite comes integrated and optimized for tensorflow and pilotage, so we expect most developers to be able to take their existing models and with minor changes to the training strips to be able to run them on Gowdy based instances. In addition, expert developers that are familiar with writing their own kernels will be provided with food too sweet for writing their own TPC kernels that can augment the Havana provided library. >>So that's the user experience for the developers, right? That's what you're saying >>exactly, exactly, and we will provide detailed guides for developers. In doing that, Havana will provide open access to documentation library software models and left toe Havana's kita and bi directional communication with the Havana developer community. All these resources will be available concurrently with the AWS Instances launch. >>Okay, so I'm a developer. How did I get involved? It's software on git hub I use the hardware is on Amazon, obviously, in their instances. It's a new instance. Take me through the workflow develop. I'm into this. I wanna I wanna get involved. What I what am I doing? Take me >>through? Yes, I think it s so If the developer is accustomed to using GPS for training the deep learning models three experience is gonna be practically the same, right? So they'll have multiple options to get started. One of them would be, for example, to take our deep learning, Um, it's or Amazon machine images that will come integrated with software from Havana labs. Right. So customers will take the deep Learning Army and launch it on an easy to instance, featuring the gaudy accelerators. Right? So when with that, they'll have, you know, the baseline construct off software and hardware available to get up and running with right, we'll support, you know, all different types of work flows. So if customers want to use containerized solutions, thes instances will be supported R E C s and E s services. Eso using containerized kubernetes you know, thes the solution will just work on. Lastly, we also intend to support these instances through sage maker eso. Just a quick recap on stage maker. That's a manage service that does end to end that provides end to end capabilities for training, debugging, building and deploying machine learning applications. Eso these instances will also be supporting sage maker. So if you're fiddling with sage maker, you can get up and running with this. This is fairly quickly. >>It sounds like it's gonna enable a lot of action and sage maker level. Then can that layer on the use cases? I gotta ask you guys quickly, What's the low hanging fruit use case applications for this product thing? This partnership, Because you know that's gonna be the first Traction said, What are some of these applications gonna be used for? What can we expect to see? >>So typical applications would be image classifications, object detection, natural language processing, the recommendation systems. You'll find reference models in our get up for that and will be growing at least a Z you can imagine. >>Okay, where can people find more info? Give us the data. Take him in to explain. Put a plug in for how What's all the coordinates? U r l sites support how people create, Um, how people get involved. The community. >>Yeah, so customers will be able to access information on AWS websites and also on Havana Labs website. So you will be kicking off a preview early next year. Eso I would highly recommend for customers to find our product pages and signed up for already access and previous information. Utah. >>Yes, and you'll find more information on Havana. A swell a Savannah's get up over time. >>Great announcement. Congratulations. Thanks for sharing the news and some commentary on it. This is really the big theme. You know what Cove in 19 and this pandemic has shown is massive acceleration of digital transformation and having the software and hardware out there that accelerates the heavy lifting and creates value around the data. Super valuable. Thanks for for doing that. Appreciate taking the time. Thank >>you so much. >>Yeah. Thanks for having >>us. Okay, this is the cubes coverage at 80. Best reinvent next three weeks. We're here on the ground. Will remote. We're live inside the studio. We wish we could be there in person, but it's remote this year. But stay tuned. Check out silicon angle dot com. Exclusive interviews with Andy Jassy and Amazon executives and the big news covering. They're all there in one spot. Check it out. We'll be back with more coverage after this break. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>>law from Las Vegas. It's the two covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners, >>everyone welcome to the Cubes Live coverage in Las Vegas For AWS Reinvent 2019 starts Seventh year of the Cube coverage. Watching the big wave of Amazon continue to pound the pound the beach with more announcements. I'm John Ferrier instructing the seal for the new ways with my partner, David Dante, our next guest. Brian Hall, vice president. Product market for all of AWS >>Brian. Thanks for coming on. The Cube is >>really a pleasure to be here. We've had ready, eh? We've >>had many conversations off camera around opportunities, innovation and watching Andy Jackson Kino, which is a marathon. Three hours, 30 announcements. He's hit his mark. Live music, well done. But he got a ton of stuff in there. Let's unpack the key points. Tell us what you think people should pay attention to. Of all the announcements, one of the three major or one of the major areas that are that stand out that are most notable that you wanna highlight. >>Okay, I'll give you I'll give you four areas that I think are most notable from the keynote. First is we continue to be very focused on how do we give the deepest and broadest platform for all the different things people want to be able to do with computing. And we had a big announcements around new instance instances of easy to that air based on custom design silicon that that we built one of them is called IMF one. These are instances that are focused on machine learning inference. Where it turns out, up to 90% of the cost for machine learning often is. And so we have. We have a brand new set of instances reduce costs by up to 90% for people doing inference in the cloud. We also last year announced a armed chip that we developed called Graviton, and we announced today grab it on two and that their new instances that are running on gravity on thio, including our general purpose computer instances, are compute intensive instances and high memory instances, and people will get up to 40% price performance improvement by using the instances that are based on the >>method of the messages faster more inexpensive. But also there's an architectural shift going on with Compute Way. Heard that with the I. O. T. And the Outpost stuff where computer is moving to the data because moving around is well recognized and now affirmed its expensive. Yeah, this is a big part of it. You got local zone. What's that local zone? Was it a local >>s? So they're kind of two ways that we're addressing that the first is but making it so that our infrastructure is closer to customers. We have outposts for customers that want to run a WS in their own environments. We announced today local zones which are essentially taking the computer storage database capabilities and putting it closer to metro areas where people want to have a single digit Leighton see for applications when going to the clouds over video rendering for gaming and like, that's gonna be very helpful. Is >>that gonna be like a regional point of presence was gonna be installed, Eleni, on any premise anyone wants, I could put my >>outpost can be put in any environment where you have the right power network infrastructure. Local zones are managed by Amazon, so I don't have to have it. I don't have to manage any data center. Anything. I could just choose to deploy to an environment that is geographically very >>smaller than a region. >>Small isn't an ability. Oh, yeah, >>Right. Okay. That's like a mini zone. Yeah, and and so what about the the availability component? It's sort of up to the customer to figure that out There >>it is connected to a region. So, for instance, we're releasing in Los Angeles with availability now, and that's connected to the US West region. So all of the data backup redundancy application duplication of people want to be able to do could do be done, do the region. >>All right, So graviton processor got onto those early press reports that leaked out prior to reinvent. I noticed that didn't match kind of what was announced. Just clarify what the grab it on ship is doing. What was the key? Grab it on a piece of the news here >>s O gravitas to is a arm based process lor designed and built by a W s. It is powering three different instance. Types are for those who know the types the see instances am instances and are instances on dhe available starting today with M six, which is one of our general purpose computing platforms. And so it gives up to 40% better price performance. And there's a whole ecosystem of platforms and APS Little run unarmed today. >>Are you pushing the envelope on computer? Which is great you continue to do That's the core of jewels of AWS, which we love and storage and everything else. Warm story. I get that a second, but I want your thoughts on the stage maker. A lot of time was spent on stage maker kind of levels of the stack infrastructure, machine, learning stage maker and tools. And a I service is. But the big announcement was this new I d frame environments, not a framework. You're taking an environment like an i d for all the different frameworks. Where did this come from? How I mean so obvious. Now, looking back that no one has this this was a big party announcement. You explain this. >>Yeah. So what you're referring to is sage Makers studio. One of the things that people have really liked about sage maker is it takes the whole process of building a model training a model ended up deploying a model and gives you the steps to do it, but there it hasn't been brought together into one environment before. And so sage maker Studio is a integrated development environment for machine learning that lets you spin up. No books. Run experiments test how your models performing. Deploy your model of detective. Your model is drifting all from one place, which gives me essentially a single dashboard for my whole machine learning work. Look, what do >>you think the impact's gonna be on this? Because if I'm just looking at that obvious awesomeness, it's like, OK, that means anyone can get start using machine learning, you know, be a guru or a total math. >>That's that's fundamentally a lot of what we're doing is trying to reduce the barrier for developers or anyone who has who has a desire to start using machine learning to be able to do that and say, you maker studios just another way that we're doing it. Another one we announced on Monday or on Sunday night, of course, a machine learning powered musical keyboard. Everyone knew that was coming right? That's that's just a example like Deep Racer, where we're taking machine learning. We're making it immediately practical and even fun. And then giving people a way to start experimenting does that they'll eventually become developers who are using machine learning for much >>things. Have a question. As you simplify machine learning, people are concerned about explain ability. You guys, I think, have some ways of helping people understand what's going on inside the algorithm. So that's not a pure black box. Is that correct interpretation? >>It is. It is way announced. Today s age maker experiments, which is one of the one of the things about machine learning, is your kind of constantly tuning the different variables that you're using in your model tow. Understand what works? What doesn't. That's all black box. It's really hard to tell with sage major studio and experiments in particular. Now I can see how models perform differently based on tweaking variables, which starts making it much easier to explain what's happening. >>I think you guys got it right, and he laid out the databases. Multiple databases pick your database. It's okay that multiple databases just create some abstracted layers on top. I totally agree with that philosophy and I think that's gonna be a nice haven for opportunity. We agree. >>Used to be that because so much of running a database was all of the operational expertise it took that you wouldn't wanna have too many databases because that's that many database administrators and people doing the undifferentiated heavy lifting now with the cloud. If you have a data set that's better suited for something like a uh uh, workload in Cassandra, we announced the Manage Cassandra service today. You can just been up that service, load your data and start going. And so it creates a lot more opportunity >>talk about quantum because I know you guys yesterday, which is always a signal from Amazon and didn't make the keynote cut, but a ray relevant quantum announcement, the joke was, is gonna be a quantum supremacy messaging. But no, is more of a humble approach from you guys is more. Hey, we're gonna put some quantum out there setting expectations on the horizon, not over playing your hand on that. But you also have an institute with Caltech humble academic thing going on. What's the quantum inside Inside conversation like an Amazon? What's the what's going on with you. What can we expect? >>We're really excited about what quantum computing's going to be able to do for customers, and we say a lot of Amazon on many things. It's date one, which means it's really early. When we look at Quantum somewhere between zero and one, we're not quite sure where. So just live saying it's really early days. And so what we're doing is providing a platform, a partnership with Caltech, to advance the state of the art and then also a Quantum Solutions lab to help customers start to experiment. To figure out how might. This enabled me to solve problems that I couldn't do before >>you? No one can ask. So Andy talked in a keynote about most of the spend is still on. So the early days of cloud were about, you know, infrastructures of service, storage, computer networking, and it seems like we're entering This era of this data is really sort of the driver where you're applying analytics and machine learning. Data's everywhere, and it seems to be driving sort of new forms of compute. It's not just in this sort of stovepipe anymore. You see that you see that sort of new emergence of new compute were close. >>Yeah. Yeah, we definitely do. And in particular, the way that people are starting to use data lakes, which is essentially a way of saying, Hey, I have my data and one place in a bunch of different formats. And I want different analytical tools, different machine learning tools, different applications toe all be able to build on that same data. And once you do that, you start unlocking opportunities for different application developers, different lines of business to take advantage of it. Brian, >>Thanks for coming on The Cube. Really appreciate your VP of all product. Mark. You get the keys to the kingdom, you kind of see what's going on. Take us home and finish the exit interview out by by talking about the best. Now that Jesse Safer last. The best for last was the outpost G A and the five G wavelength with CEO of Arise on. Yeah, I mean, that's gonna bring five G to stadiums for drones, immersive experiences. I mean, that's a big vision. Yeah, I think it's home >>people. People are rightfully excited about five G for having faster connections, but the thing that we're also very excited about is the fact that all these devices will have much lower laden see and the ability to run interactive applications that having a W s with AWS wavelength hosted with the five G providers is gonna give developers chances to melt. >>Brian Hall with With AWS I'm John David Lot. They were here on the Cube studios, sponsored by Intel's Our Signature sponsors of the Intel's Cube Studios. When it's to a shoutout for Intel to them for supporting our mission, bringing the best content from events and extracting the signal from the noise will be back with more after this short break.

>>live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Splunk dot com. 19. Brought to You by spunk >>Hey, welcome back. Everyone's two cubes coverage here in Las Vegas for spunk dot com. 19 dot com 19. This is slugs. 10th year doing dot Com Cube seventh year of coverage. We've watched the progression have security data market log files. Getting the data data exhaust turned into gold nuggets now is the centerpiece of data security, data protection and a variety of other great things and important things going on. And we're here to great guests from slug i n songs. Vice president and general manager of security markets and Friedrichs, a VP of security automation. Guys, great to see you again. We just saw you and there's reinforce. Thanks for coming back. >>Thank you for having us. >>So you guys announced security operation Sweet last year. Okay, now it's being discussed here. What's the update? What our customers doing? How are they embracing the security piece of it? >>Wow. Well, it's being a very busy year for us. Way really updated the entire suite. More innovation going in. Yes, six. Tato got announce and phantom and you be a every product is getting some major enhancement for concealing scale. For example, years now way have customers running in the cloud like 15 terabytes, and that's like three X and from It's like 50 terrifies 50 with Search has classes. So that's one example and fend him throughout the years is just lots of capabilities. We're adding a case. Management was a major theme, and that's actually the release before the current one. So we'll be, really, you know, 80 and focusing on that just to summarize sort of sweet right. You be a continue to be machine learning driven, and there's a lot of maturity that's that's going into the product, and there's a lot of more scale and backup. Restore was like one of the major features, because become more mission critical. But what's really, really, really exciting? It's how we're using a new product called Mission Control to bring everything all together. >>I want to get into the Mission control because I love that announcement. Just love The name was behind it, but staying on the sweet when they're talking about it's a portfolio. One of the things that's been consistent every year at dot com of our coverage and reporting has been wth e evolution of a platform on enabling platform. So has that evolves? What does the guiding principles remain? The same. How you guys sing because now you're shipping it. It's available. It's not just a point. Product is a portfolio and an ecosystem falling behind it. You know the APP, showcase, developer, Security and Compliance Foundation and platforms on Just I T ops and A I ops are having. So you have a variety of things coming out of for what's the guiding principle these days is continuing to push the security. You share the vision >>guiding principle and division. It's really way believe the world. As we digitize more as everything's happening, machines speed as people really need to go to analytics to bring insides into things and bring data into doing that's that's really turning that into doing so. It's the security nerve center vision that continue guide what we do, and we believe Security nerve center needs really data analytics and operations to come together and again, I'm gonna tell you, Mission Control is one of the first examples that we bring all of the entire stack together and you talk about ecosystem. It takes a village is a team sport. And I'm so excited to see everybody here. And we've done a lot of integrations as part of sweets to continue to mature more than 1900 AP I integrations more than 300 APS. Justice Phantom alone. That's a lot of automated actions. People can take >>the response from the people in the hallways and also the interviews have been very positive. I gotta get to Mission Control. Phantom was a huge success. You're a big part of building taking that into the world now. Part was flung. Mission Control. Love the name Mission Control. This is the headline, by the way, Splunk Mission Control takes off super sharp itching security operations. So I think Mission Control, I think NASA launching rockets Space X Really new innovation. Really big story behind his unification. You share where this came from, what it is what's in the announcement? >>Yeah. So this is all about optimizing how sock analysts actually work. So if you think about it, a sock typically is made up of literally a dozen different products and technologies that are all different consuls, different vendors, different tabs in your Web browser, so it for an analyst to do their job literally pivoting between all of these consoles. We call it swivel chair syndrome, like you're literally are frantically moving between different products. Mission Control ties those together, and we started by tying slugs products together. So we allow you to take our sin, which is enterprise security, or you be a product's monkey. Be a and phantom, which is our automation and orchestration platformer sore platform and manage them and integrate them into one single presentation layer to be able to provide that unified sock experience for the analyst So it it's an industry first, but it also boosts productivity. Leading analysts do their job more effectively to reduce the time it takes. So now you're able to both automate, investigate and detect in one unified presentation, layer or work surface. >>You know, the name evokes, you know, dashboards, NASA. But what that really was wasn't an accumulation, an extraction of data into service air, where people who were analysts do their job and managed launching rockets. But I want to ask you a question. Because of this, all is based on the underpinnings of massive amounts of volume of data and the old expression Rising tide floats all boats also is rising tide floats, Maur adversaries ransomware attacks is data attacks are everywhere. But also there's value in that data. So as the data volume grows, this is a big deal. How does mission Control help me manage to take advantage of that all you How do you guys see that playing out? >>Yes, Emission control really optimizes the time it takes to resolving incident. Ultimately, because you're able to now orient all of your investigation around a single notable event eso It provides a kn optimal work surface where an analyst can see the event interrogated, investigated triage, they can collaborate with others. So if I want to pull you into my investigation, we can use a chat ops that capability, whether it's directly in mission control or slack integration waken manage a case like you would with a normal case management toe be ableto drive your incident to closure, leveraging a case template. So if I want to pull in crisis communications team my legal team, my external forensics team, and help them work together as well. Case management lets me do that in triage that event. It also does something really powerful. High end mentioned. The operations layer the analytics in the data layer. Mission Control ties together the operational layer where you and I are doing work to the data layer underneath. So we're able to now run worries directly from our operational layer into the data layer like SPL quarries, which spunk is built on from the cloud where Mission Control is delivered from two on premise Face Plunk installations So you could have Michigan still running in the Cloud Splunk running on premise, and you could have multiple Splunk on premise installs. You could have won in one city, another one in another city or even another country. You could have a Splunk instance in the Cloud, and Mission Control will connect all of those tying them together for investigative purposes. So it's very powerful. >>That's a first huge, powerful when this comes back to the the new branding data to everywhere, and I see the themes everywhere, the new colors, new brake congratulations. But it's about things. What do ours doing stuff, thinking and making things happen. Connecting these layers not easy, okay? And diverse data is hard. Thio get access to, but diverse data creates great machine learning. Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay creates great business value. So way see a flywheel development and you guys got going on here. Can you elaborate on that? Dated everywhere And why this connective tissue that you're talking about is so important? Is it access to the war data? Is that flywheel happening? How do you see that playing out? >>I'll start with that because they were so excited where data to everything company or new tagline is turning data into doing. And this wouldn't be possible without technologies like Phantom coming in right way have traditionally been doing really great with enterprise was data platforms. And with an Alex now was phantom. We can turn that into doing now with some of the new solutions around data stream processing. Now we're able to do a lot of things in real time. On you mentioned about the scale, right scales changes everything. So for us, I think we're uniquely positioned in this new age of data, and it's exploding. But we have the technology to help your payment, and it's representing your business way. Have the analytics to help you understand the insights, and it's really the ones gonna impact day today enabling your business. And we have two engine to help you take actions. That's the exciting part. >>Is that what this flywheel, because diverse data is sounds great, makes sense more data way, see better? The machines can respond, and hopefully there's no blind spots that creates good eye. That kind of knows that if they're in data, but customers may not have the ability to do that. I think that's where the connecting these platforms together is important, because if you guys could bring on the data, it could be ugly data on his Chuck's data data, data, data. But it's not always in the form you need. Things has always been a challenge in the industry. How do you see that Flywheel? Yeah, developing. >>Yeah, I think one of the challenges is the normalization of the data. How do you normalize it across vendors or devices, you know. So if I have firewalls from Cisco, Palo Alto Checkpoint Jennifer alive, that day is not the same. But a lot of it is firewall blocked data, for example, that I want to feed into my SIM or my data platform and analyze similarly across endpoint vendors. You know you have semantic McAfee crowdstrike in all of these >>vendors, so normalization >>is really key and normalizing that data effectively so that you can look me in at the entire environment as a single from a single pane of glass. Essentially, that's response does really well is both our scheme on reed ability to be able to quarry that data without having a scheme in place. But then also, the normalization of that data eyes really key. And then it comes down to writing the correlation searches our analytics stories to find the attacks in that data. Next, right. And that's where we provide E s content updates, for example, that provide out of the box examples on how to look for threats in that data. >>So I'm gonna get you guys reaction to some observations that we've made on the Q. In the spirit of our cube observe ability we talked to people are CEOs is si sos about how they cloud security from collecting laws and workloads, tracking cloud APS and on premise infrastructure. And we ask them who's protecting this? Who is your go to security vendors? It was interesting because Cloud was in their cloud is number one if it's cloud are not number one, but they used to clear rely on tools in the cloud. But then, when asked on premise, Who's the number one? Splunk clearly comes up and pretty much every conversation. Xanatos. Not a scientific survey, it's more of it handpicks. But that means it's funk is essentially the number one provider with customers in terms of managing those workloads logs across ABS. But the cloud is now a new equation because now you've got Amazon, Azur and Google all upping their game on cloud security. You guys partner with it? So how do you guys see that? How do you talk cutters? Because with an enabling platform and you guys are offering you're enabling applications. Clouds have Apple case. So how do you guys tell that story with customers? Is your number one right now? How do you thread that needle into this explosive data in the cloud data on premise. What's the story? >>So I wish you were part of our security super session. We actually spent a lot of energy talking about how the cloud is shifting the paradigm paradigm of how software gets billed, deployed and consumed. How security needs to really sort of rethink where we start, right? We need to shift left. We need to make sure that I think you use the word observe ability, right? T you got to start from there. That's why as a company we bought, you know, signal effects and all the others. So the story for us is start from our ability to work with all the partners. You know, they're all like great partners of ours AWS and G, C, P and Microsoft. In many ways, because ecosystem for cloud it's important. We're taking cloud data. We're building cloud security models. Actually, a research team just released that today. Check that out and we'll be working with customers and building more and more use cases. Way also spend a lot of time with her. See, So customer advisory council just happened yesterday talking about how they would like us to help them, and part of that they were super super excited. The other part is what we didn't understand how complicated this is. So I think the story have to start in the cloudy world. You've gotto do security by design. You gotta think about automation because automation is everywhere. How deployment happens. I think we're really sit in a very interesting intersection off that we bring the cloud and on prime together >>the mission, See says, I want to get cameras in that room. I'm sure they don't want any cameras in the sea. So room Oliver taking that to the next level. It's a complexity is not necessarily a bad thing, because software contract away complexity is from the history of the computer industry that that's where innovation could happen, taking away complexity. How do you see that? Because Cloud is a benefit, it shouldn't be a hindrance. So you guys were right in the middle of this big wave. What? You're taking all this? >>Yeah. Look, I think Cloud is inevitable. I would say all of our customers in some form or another, are moving to the cloud, so our goal is to be not only deliver solutions from the cloud, but to protect them when they're in the cloud. So being able to work with cloud data source types, whether it's a jury, w s, G, C P and so on, is essential across our entire portfolio, whether it's enterprise security but also phantom. You know, one exciting announcement that we made today is we're open sourcing 300 phantom maps and making making him available with the Apache to get a license on get hubs so you'll be able to take integrations for Cloud Service is, like many eight of US service is, for example, extend them, share them in the community, and it allows our customers to leverage that ecosystem to be able to benefit from each other. So cloud is something that we work with not only from detection getting data in, but then also taking action on the cloud to be. Will it protect yourself? Whether it's you, I want to suspend an Amazon on your instance right to be able to stop it when it's when it's infected. For example, right those air it's finishing that whole Oodle Ooh and the investigate monitor, analyze act cycle for the cloud as we do with on from it. >>I think you guys in a really good position again citizen 2013. But I think my adjustment today would be talking to Andy Jackson, CEO of AWS. He and I always talk all the time around question he gets every year. Is Amazon going to kill the ecosystem? Runs afraid Amazon, he says. John. No, we rely on third party. Our ecosystem is super important. And I think as on premises and hybrid cloud becomes so critical. And certainly the Io ti equations with industrial really makes you guys really in a good position. So I think Amazon would agree. Having third party if you wanna call it that. I mean, a supplier is a critical linchpin today that needs to be scalable, >>and we need equal system for security way. You know, you one of the things I shared is really an asymmetric warfare. Where's the anniversary? You talk about a I and machine learning data at the end of the day is the oxygen for really powering that arm race. And for us, if we don't collaborate as ecosystem, we're not gonna have a apprehend because the other site has always say there's no regulations. There's no lawyers they can share. They can do whatever. So I think as a call to action for our industry way, gotta work together. Way got to really sort of share and events or industry together. >>Congratulations on all the new shipping General availability of E s six point. Oh, Phantoms continue to be a great success. You guys on the open source got an APB out there? You got Mission Control. Guys, keep on evolving Splunk platform. You got ABS showcase here. Good stuff. >>Beginning of the new date. Excited. >>We're riding the waves together with Splunk. Been there from day one, actually 30 year in but their 10th year dot com our seventh year covering Splunk. I'm John Ferrier. Thanks for watching. We'll be back with more live coverage. Three days of cube coverage here in Las Vegas. We'll be right back.

>> Live from Washington DC. It's the Cube. Covering AWS Public Sector Summit. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome to the Cube's live coverage of AWS Public Sector, here in our nation's capital. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, John Furrier. We are joined by Sanjay Sardar, he is the VP Modernization and Digital Transformation at SAIC. Thank you so much for coming on the Cube. >> Thank you for having me. >> So, you are a twenty-five year veteran of data management. Why don't I start by asking you to... Sort of break down the principles of good data management. This is what we're here to talk about. >> Yeah. So... When you say it that way it makes me feel very old. I've done data management for a long time. The key to data management... Some of the principles are understanding, kind of what data you have. Where it is. What's the value of the data. That's the key that everyone's trying to bring. You know in the last twenty years, we've seen an explosion in the amount of data that we were handling. So, really, how do you get through all that data? How do you understand how to manage it? Where do you put it? And then really understand how to use it. What is that value of all of it coming through? Some of if is just machine data and noise. That you're looking at. That's important for certain aspects, but doesn't really add much value to the overall working of the agency or organization that you're with. And others are very valuable data, that you cannot really do anything with, unless you manipulate it in some way, or some fashion. So, data management takes a lot of different practices. And different ways to look at it. So, we've been doing master data management, meta data management for a long time, which helps understand what that data is. But then, what's the provenance of the data? What's the governance of data? What policies surround it? Where's the security of the data? All those factors play into, when you're looking at data as an enterprise. >> Sanjay, talk about SAIC specifically. I mean in long history working with the government and many, many contracts with broad range of services. But now at the modernization focus. The conversation is about agility, speed, modernizing government private, public sponsorships... Partnerships. Responsibility and accountability. All these things are in a melting pot. What is SAIC like today? What's your specific role here in Washington DC for Public Sector? >> Fair enough. So the SAIC is almost a fifty year old company. We've been around the government sector for about that long. We've done everything. We do everything from, data management, to software development, to infrastructure and hardware. Pretty much the whole gamut of IT services. And we've worked with almost every federal agency in the area, in the country. From a modernization perspective, what we're looking at is, the federal government is at this tipping point. We have a lot of legacy systems. We have a lot old aging infrastructure that... That needs to be replaced. That needs to be upgraded and modernized. This is a national security issue. We're getting into a point where things... If they start failing, it would be catastrophic for the US as a whole. So, where we are right now, as we're trying to work with the government, to bring in new technologies. As you said it's a melting pot of things that are happening. Not only has data exploded, but the technologies that are being used, have also exploded. You're seeing a massive consumerization happening. Biggest example is the apple iPhone. When the iPhone came out, that consumer... That model of the Apple iStore... Or, being able to do everything from your phone, is something the government has to get to. That's where you're looking at the UIUX models. That's where you're looking at different workflows being moved to the cloud. How do you handle all that? >> They used to be a government. They used to be a consumer of technology. Now they are a regulator of technology. That's what the discussions are. They're looking at using data and technology for their workload. So, it's not so much a supplier consumption relationship. They're much more active participants in the technology scene. The question is, do they really understand, what's going on? Cause, if you don't understand it, you can't control it, you can't regulate it, you can't utilize it properly. This is the number one conversation around modernization. What are the key factors in your opinion? The discovered needs to do better. Is it the procurement? Is it just awareness? (Sanjay laughing) What's your thoughts? >> That's a lot of questions. A lot of things going on there. And you're right. The government has become a consumer of technology. I mean it used to be back in the days when we were launching... Missions into space and putting men on the moon. The government was a leader in technology. Now with the commercialization, government has actually become a consumer of all these types of technologies, and a creator of tons of data. So, managing that data. Managing and understanding that data is very critical. How do you use it to add value to what the government is doing? And then further down the road, to what the citizens are doing. How do you add value to the citizens' life? In doing that, there's a lot of different things that have to come into play. One. As I said, technology is a big part of it. Understanding what technology to apply. It's not just about replacing technology. That's not what modernization is. Modernization, is how do you change and digitally transform your workloads. Your workflow. How you do business. That's really where the value add comes in. To get there, yeah you have to look at the technology. You have to look at the procurement practices. You have to look at different pricing and consumption models that the government hasn't been used to in a long time. When you look at these, traditional contracting models, they may not apply to some of the new ways of consuming technology. >> The world has changed for the government. >> The world has absolutely changed. >> What will it take though, for the government to become a more savvy buyer? I mean what are some of the things that... >> I think the government is already starting to become a more savvy buyer. Again. Remember the far, as when they talk about it, the federal acquisitions regulations. It's a massive volume that's probably, you know, a thousand pages long. So, there's a lot of opportunity to interpret that correctly. Where we're changing now, is how do you interpret it, so that there's fair practices for all competitors in the government market. And you're starting to see that. You're starting to see procurement officers looking at things differently. You're starting to see CIO's demand different services. They almost cannot do it. The compete in storage powers necessary? It's way too hard to go the old traditional route. >> You know what's interesting Rebecca, we talk about data all the time. We just read Infomatica World, they're kind of a supplier. They do the catalog and stuff for here at Amazon. Multi clouds of big countries, so Amazon is one of the biggest cloud. Andy Jackson who was just on stage last night in Arizona at a conference. Talking about response on recognition. All these hot AI data issues. Everything is a data problem. Right? But, yet we talk about government, but it's not just government. It's public sector. It's federal. But it's also international nation states. Competitiveness. So, there's a lot going on in such a short period in time, where analytics and data are key part, around the future value. So, it's almost the whole world is twisted upside down, from just ten years ago. >> Oh. Easily! >> Your thoughts on what's going on, and what the public sector community... Because a lot of these environments, don't have huge IT budgets. But now we're seeing things like Ground Station. Satellite. New stuff happening. >> So you're right. The explosion of data has really caused government... And in fact, every industry to change. More industries are becoming digital industries than when they were manufacturing ones You know, things like Uber, and all those industries that popped up because of the data. That's where government is also turning into. They are starting to understand that all the decisions that government makes, has to be done through a data driven model. They have to have this evidence based decision making process. And you're seeing that, because of the federal data practices. The data management act. The creation of CDOs in every agency. This is really pushing. The government is really recognizing, data is an asset. It's a value added asset, that they have to use better, to add value to the citizens life. To what they're providing. >> And it wasn't necessarily front and center on the... Quote, "data balance sheet". If you will.. Or the evaluation of data wasn't always looked at that way. >> No. >> Cause that changed the perspective. Understanding and... >> It's a huge shift. Like I said. When you look at the rise of the CDO. The Chief Data Officer in the federal government. That's a really big indication that data is now become and looked at as an asset. The CIO was responsible for all the technology and... They're governing all the technology. And they're the... Owner of that. The Chief Data Officer's now doing the same thing from the data side. The governance. The policy. The usage. The cooperation across multiple agencies. Multiple countries, as you said. >> Are agencies deploying CDOs across all agencies now? >> I think you're seeing more and more of the CDO being put out there. In fact almost all the agencies that I work with, have a CDO already in place, or are hiring one in the next three months. >> Why is modernization such a contentious topic? Is it because everyone has a different definition of what modernization is? It seems to be contentious when I talk about it with folks. It's like, what does it mean? >> I don't know if modernization is a contentious topic in the sense of... I think everybody recognizes that they have to modernize. It's how do you do it? You know, we are in a world where we have so much legacy infrastructure, legacy applications, that are tied so closely to mission. There's a risk of how do you modernize. You don't modernize correctly, you might in fact mission. And when you're talking about thing like in the DOD, where that leads to potential, you know, in theater situations and problems. That's a big problem from the DOD side. In the civilian side of the house, same thing. If your taxes go up by forty five percent because someone messed up on the modernization side, that's a problem. So, we have to be careful. Every agency has a personal journey. SAIC, when we look at this working with our partner systems, we look at an agency's personal journey. Everybody's going to do it differently. So, I think the contention comes in is, how do you do it? When do you do it? What do you attack first? Where do you look at the challenges and value adds are? Because everybody has to do it. Budgets are shrinking, and security is important. >> And workload has kicked around a lot. Applications used to be the old worry. Now an application sits on a server. It runs kind of monolithic. But, the applications are what... And the workloads are what really is the goal. Agency's got their own unique solution. That taxes is for taxes. Make that go better. So. Data and cloud, is different per workload. Per environment. Per mission. >> It very well could be. I think it's ubiquitous that there is a compute and storage factor, that everybody has to use. But the workloads that really transform the digital mission, are very different from agency to agency. So, you have to look at, what are they valuing, and where they are going with it. So, agencies like PTO, they're looking at, how do I more effectively our examiner's time? Versus, agencies like NASA, which are looking at, how do I do higher level compute, and HPC type work? So. >> One of the things you talked about when we first began our conversation. Is not only the explosion in data, but the explosion around the technologies and tools that are used to store and manipulate, and execute decisions on the data. Can you talk a little about what you're seeing. For example AI. I mean this is all the buzz, and all the big technology shows that we go to around the country. And it's maturing... But there's not a lot of adoption in the government. >> So, you're right. Along with this data explosion, we've seen a technology explosion. And with the different types of tools, handling the different sectors of managing data. Storage is one we talk about all the time. Because you have so much data, you can't actually access all that data at once. So, there's segmentation in the data that you have to look at. Companies at Cohesity are doing a good job of handling and managing that segmentation, in their hyper converged storage architectures. But we're also looking at in the AI world. Yes. AI is artificial intelligence. Deep learning. Machine learning. These are all techniques that are working very well for certain types of data usage and data problems. But the adoption is not as wide spread. Because, they're new technologies. I mean AI is where data was, like I said, twenty years ago. So, they're starting to understand, how do I use it. What do I use it for? You know that natural... That learning process that AI goes through. To say, "Okay, I'm going to make something more efficient." How do I do posturing of that data? Where do I actually use that? When you have large volumes of data. Security for example, is a great example. When you look at security logs, lots of volume of data coming out of that. But to use AI to learn which vectors the next security threat's going to to come through? That's a pretty daunting challenge, and not an easy one. And you have to find used cases like that. So, artificial intelligence I think has a large promise in the world. There's image recognition that's working very very well. Image recognition and classification. Natural language processing to look at different core sets of data in the research community. Or, in the pattern community. Those are very good examples of how AI is being used today. But there's a long way to go. And there's a lot to be learnt still. >> There's a lot of technology behind storing, and one of our sponsors that sponsors the Cube, Rebecca's cohesity. They sponsor us and invest in events. I think, always thank the sponsors. They're in the business of scaling up storage. So, it's not that easy to store it. So, you have to not only figure out the business model behind how to use the data. There's also the technology around storing it cleanly without hiring away. Talk about the dynamics around tech, in terms of managing the data. >> Well, so as you said it. There's a storage aspect of it. There's a retrieval aspect of it. There's a time aspect of it. All of that leads to... Yes, data is so valuable and so large and so limitless now. Doing all of those things matter. I mean if you're waiting, even nowadays... If you're waiting even three seconds for any response to come back? You're going to look at it and be like, I got to change my computer out cause it's too slow. That's the kind of area where we're in. When you look at the segmentation of data, nearline storage versus online storage. Well, the nearline has to be almost as fast as the online, cause now we're looking at things where, as you put it. The AI models are looking across vast amounts of data. They're looking at everything. How do you do that well? So that... All of that technology factor plays into it. >> One final thing. And this is just about the mindset of the government right now. Because what you're talking about, is a lot of exploration, and a lot of experimentation that's needed. How would you describe, sort of the federal approach to this? I mean, in fail fast is the motto of Silicone Valley. (Sanjay laughing) But that's a lot harder to do in the government. When lives are at stake. >> Well yeah. And it's cautious to be fair. It's not only lives at stake, but it's tax per dollars. Everybody is putting in there. And we want to make sure that we're doing right. To be fair. The government is looking at a fail fast prototype type models. That do work with, like you know, hackathons, and competitions. That really bring together public sector and private companies, like SAIC and others. To do different things that help kind of with this technology explosion. So for example, We work with USDA. We did multiple hackathons for precision agriculture. That kind of work is... It helps understand, what do we need to do with precision agriculture? What tools make sense? So, we have something we called our innovation factory. Where we have contracted out with multiple Silicone Valley. So we bring that to us, and then we bring that to government. That way the government does not, you know, not precluded by some of the rules that they have. But those type of things really help, that public, private partnership... It has to happen. >> I just want to... On that point real quick. Then we got to break. >> One of the things that you mentioned there is that this new generation kind of mindset. Talk about that dynamic, because there seems to be a new generation, digital natives, emerging into the work force. >> Absolutely. >> Enforcing the change, within the government. Can you validate that? Can you see... Can you share your opinion on how that's impacting everyone? >> Absolutely. Since I joined government over, God, now it's over twelve or thirteen years ago. And I left four years ago. We've been talking about this cliff that's coming up in the human resources side of the house. Where thirty-five percent of the top tier leadership is retiring. That's all getting replaced by new folks entering the market. And all these folks grew up in the iPhone era. None of these guys do anything that is... They are all mobile. They'll work anytime, anywhere. >> Very impatient too. >> Very different mindset. >> Cut the red tape. >> Right. Very different mindset and how to make government work. And that's a good thing. That kind of shake up is actually necessary. As these folks grow into leadership positions. They're going to change how government works. So we got to be ready for it. >> Great. Well Sanjay, thank you so much for coming on the Cube. >> Absolutely. Thank you for having me. >> We'll have more from AWS public sector. I'm Rebecca Knight, for John Furrier. Stay tuned. (theme music)

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering del Technologies. World twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome to Del >> Technologies with Cubes Coverage Our tenth year covering DMC World del World Here >> Pat Kelsey who test Not your time yet, but you're going to be coming on later. >> Great key note. Thanks for coming by. >> I appreciate it. Explored back tomorrow. You later. All right. >> Not Kelson. You're kicking off the cube coverage. Three days. The wall, the wall colors. Got two sets. Shotgun of content. We got to cube cannons blowing out the content. I'm John Force to minimum David. Want a key note? Uh, really kind of the tectonic plates in the industry. Kind of coming together you had on stage is something. The Tele CEO of Microsoft, Michael Dell, CEO of Down, founder of Del Technology and Pat Gayle Sr. Legends in the industry Captains of the industry. Really a critical juncture for Del technology worlds and a slew of other announcements. But the Del Cloud unified workspace but showing Microsoft on stage. This is a game changing move for Del technology world sure del del Technologies. But also of'Em. Where. Bm where in bed with eight of us. We know that cover that relationship now, going multi cloud all the way with Azure and seeing the CEO on stage Pretty incredible days. >> I think you nailed it. It's a V m wear story, John, and the numbers tell it. VM wears market value's eighty three billion Del owns eighty percent of it. That's sixty >> six billion. What's left. Dell's market value is forty seven billion. That says, the Del Cores worth negative nineteen billion. If it weren't for VM, where Satya Nadella wouldn't be here and you're seeing Michael Dell really drive the integration? He said that several times on stage today. How much collaboration? I love the collaboration across the divisions. You saw Jeff Clarke with Pack yell Sigur talking about new desktop management, talking about VM wear Cloud on del. It's of'Em were story You're right on >> and pack. Kelsey is to really key message up their simplicity, simplifying I t. The Common operate. I felt like we were in a Cube interview four years ago because that's was the basis of hybrid cloud now kind of coming to fruition. Clear visibility, at least on the tech stack side on the operating side, this is an operator world in a developer world, and simplicity and ease of operations is going to be the critical differentiated for the winners. >> Yeah, so So, John. First of all, I think we're getting some clarity on this multi cloud world. Look, one of the things that Veum where did so? Well, not just that wave, A virtual ization, but V Centre was the centre of I t management. And the question is, can they extend that into multi cloud world? When Veum where made the partnership with a W s. It's like, Oh my gosh, what does that mean to Del We got the answer today. What? That means Adele Veum were cloud on Del AMC hardware for me personally. That relationship between VM Rendell I think it's closer from the top executive all the way on down to the field go to market than it ever was. I was one of the first people working with VM where a DMC I watched that relationship emcee always kept them is kind of the way own you, But you're gonna be independent work across the board across the board. You hear. You know V s right. V X, Ray Allen and XX and P. K s and all these wonderful products Dell and VM work developing together, going to market together. It has ripples, but Amazon likes it. Microsoft like that big deal to see Veum wear and Microsoft partnered together. There are some challenges with some other partners Visa vi, Cisco And you know, some of some of the others, like IBM and HB that, if historically partner a lot with the anywhere but a lot of exciting news and definitely on >> and cha gi ve m were knocked down Google last month. >> So, guys, this is the theme we're seeing. We see Zoom went public. That was a videoconferencing disrupting an existing industry people thought would never be disrupted. You heard something and tell a stay on stage. Say on stage here that the new generation of new APS need new infrastructure. So a re vamp, a reset revitalisation of infrastructure to power APS via cloud. It's kind. The same game computing resource is software APS but with a whole new distributor architecture. A boom is coming. We see the stock market is up huge. You see the tech earnings last week across the board. Solid results. This is now a game change. This is not a bad business to be in. You know what was once could be. A declining business sees more remote workers, people working from multiple locations, mobile unification with cloud computing, a complete renaissance across the board game. I mean, this is a big revenue opportunity. >> Well, Mike Michael Dell's Kino wasn't just about products. It was about innovation. He talked about solving world problems, a big picture stuff on. Then he let Pat and Jeff get down a little bit more into the product. Weeds and you'LL hear more of that. But Michael is laying out a huge vision. What a juxtaposition between that's what, four, five years ago, you had sort of Joe Tucci, the chairman, up on stage. Michael was there. You had. You had John Chambers there. Now Michael owns the whole kit and caboodle. He's calling the shots, and people want to do business with them. Veum, where again, As you pointed >> out to me and Lucia question, you've been following the emcee for a long time. When we interviewed Michael Dell years ago, when he was in private that he bought AMC one of things. He said a lot. People were pooh poohing the whole deal. Why they want to buy that boat anchor. He said, scale matters. So are we seeing a new generations do elected to weigh in on this too, of competitive strategy where scale matters because you look at what Del Technologies has done and is doing there essentially rolled up the global I t business and are competing at scale with synergies not even looked at before early on when we talked about it. But we started see from fruit off that scale Amazon prove scale cloud Uh, Microsoft moves of the clouds scale up now the earnings air up Thoughts >> Well, what strikes me, John, is that, you know, they always talk about end end cos talk about synergy. Synergy is a code word for cutting what you heard today. You had be ave up there, you know, talking about a video and talking about the end end capabilities that Del technology brings Del by acquiring the emcee. And of course, VM. Where is a much way more strategic partner for corporations way more than many of these startups? Khun B. so that is their linchpin. You could maybe criticize him on innovation and, oh, maybe they don't have the hottest product, but and end throw in financial services and other services. People want to do business with this company because they trust >> to scale clouds scale, delle scale, scale. >> So we heard Tom suite this morning. Talk about that, Del. Maybe I missed a couple of turns in the marketplace and they needed to go private to kind of rearrange things When they bought emcee. We knew that there are a couple of tail winds that they could arrive hyper converge infrastructure. Absolutely one. We've been watching that trend since day one that their outpacing the industry there. The leader. If you talk from a software standpoint, VM wears their. If you talk from a hardware standpoint, Dell's there who's number two in the space nutanix, which also is a complicated relationship. But Del sells that in Vienna, where still is the primary hyper visor on that environment, so they're still beating the market growth. But they're doing that by gaining market share on DH taking it. Michael always loves to talk about when he's taking market from the business So the question is the overall macro, you know, how long can they keep that double digit growth going? And Dave, I know you're looking to begin with Tom Sweet. A >> ninety billion dollar business grew fourteen percent last year. So this company, in order to grow it has to gain share because the market is not. You're not going that fast. You can't rely on repatriation. I'm sorry that people are going to just disappear from the cloud and come back. So you've got to gain share the other thing, I think, to their favours. Let's face it, they really did have their act together in storage. They were kind of missing the boat there and took their eye off the ball. PC stayed strong. They got their act together in storage, which helped with the product. Mitch mixed higher margins. So last year was a very, very strong year. Twenty twenties going to be a tougher compare, but it seems like they still have some knobs to turn >> just about competition. But, um, Nutanix, what do they do? VM where relationship with a W s. I'm sure. Andy Jackson looking distant, healing words like chaotic, complex, the bane of our existence. Kind of talking about cloud in general and you deal with multiple clouds were packed. Nelson, you say that, um kind of public cloud losing babe flavor here means to you got the public cloud dominating. Now, all this talk about on premise and you got nutanix out there. What? What happens in Nutanix here? >> Yes. Oh, look, Nutanix astute. Doing well on Dell is a very important O am. But way just on nutanix made a big partnership with Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Which, of course, I'm sure Michael doesn't like that happening. You know, Nutanix needs to keep growing their rice software company. It's interesting to talk about the other competitors I mentioned Cisco. Cisco is transforming themselves into a software company. Del Del Technology is the core business wants to be the leading infrastructure company they have VM wear. Bumi and Pivotal are their software branch with the core. Business is really around that scale that that that whole you know, infrastructure piece and it's a different chuck it the Mark >> Chuck Robbins that Cisco CEO Cisco's not yet made a big, bold move like a red at move. Well, could nutanix be that move game? >> Well, I don't know. I don't know. I think I play is an I o T. But But But to your point about your question about the cloud Cloud is not attenuating Amazons, with thirty billion dollar company growing forty one percent a year throwing off twenty five thirty percent operating margins. I mean, that's where the innovation is. That's where the scale is. Everybody wants to do multi cloud because they don't have a cloud. It's your only path if you don't have a cloud. So So I think Cloud's got a long walk >> look and they talk to you know, I tell you, you know, my community got all excited when Michael got up on stage and said, We're all in on Corin eh? Teas and what we're doing with multi cloud you're going to hear under the covers here. Everything is going from VM wear V M as that unit down to container ization, you know, talking about at that application modernization. That's where they're going to lean on VM wear modernizing some what they're doing. And you know, of course, pivotal in Bhumi are the ones that are the tip of the spear in that area. >> I don't think David, it's a suit point there. The Amazon growth will continue because if you look at what Del Technologies has rolled out today, certainly that Microsoft thing is well shot across the bow. Multi cloud, Nice checkbox. Great to see the committee of the CEO there. But everything benefits with sass in the clouds. SAS is a cloud game And if scale on the clouds gonna be there, I only see the public cloud getting stronger because the scales they're the economics cannot be ignored. Certainly the data equation will be interesting, but anon a premise infrastructure that's set up operating like a cloud. I think we'LL ultimately benefit because Amazons weak link, if there is one, is that they really don't have a sass business, right? So they have a series of customers that deuce ***. But that's going to be an opportunity for all those workloads to run on the clouds. And the question is >> going to be >> how how >> cloud like is what we here today. And I I'm a skeptic. I want to see it first, you know, Show me. >> Yeah. No, I mean, what do we hear? What are you know Veum works, you know, services on Azure. It's the STD sea stack. So we understand what that is. It is more than just virtualization. But we used to say Private Cloud just can't be virtual ization plus plus. So Veum wears, you know, expanding and changing that model. But, you know, is it cloud enough? I mean the David, you know? Oh, you want to finance it with an effects we could totally have That affects affects the two. It's great. But, you know, >> at the end of the day, innovation and economics winds and the cloud guys have the scale. I mean, look at the amount of money we heard from Google last month. They spent what, twelve billion dollars in Cap Ex through April. It would take Oracle six years to spend that much in Cap Exit would take IBM three and a half four years to spend that much in CAF X. They're cost structure is going to be so much lower. And ultimately, I believe that's going to win. >> Talk about the winners and losers because we heard at the Bank of America you mentioned also what you just said. They're the future has redefined not how you got here, how you move forward. What's the competitive positioning posture for a winning supplier in the modern era of Iranian Cloud? >> I think it's really smart that Adele is forcing these integrations and getting out ahead of this multi cloud thing, I guess said before. If you don't have a public cloud, you've gotto get into that multi cloud management business. VM wears their their their obvious linchpin. They're early in the game. This is Guest is going to play over the next five to seven years. But VM wear has knocked down eight of us. Google, now Azure. They've got a relationship with Alibaba. It's just a matter of time before you see that one happening. So they are in the pole position. The other one is IBM Red Hat. I mean, those are the two favorites in my >> and by the way, red hats here. And if you want to run, you know the latest greatest red hat solution on the Del Ready notes. You know, of course you can do that. So you know, we'd love to talk about competition, but at the end of the day, it's what's good for customers and can they pick and choose the option of their choice. How much do I get? A full stack. That's the same. And how much is their choice? And I didn't hear the word choice. Ah, lot because, you know, they were focusing on certain announcement day. But absolutely, Adele has done a good job in the space in the cloud space of laying out the top choices that customers want. >> The choice wasn't used because the choices del they'LL ship you VX rails. I'm not sure they'll be shipping other things in there. Maybe they will, too. Thanks for the analysis. Degraded. Al says, man, It's gonna be a great show. Three days of wall to wall comes to cube sets two cannons of content coming your way here A Dell Technology world. The Cube cannons stay with us for three days. I'm jumpers Do Minimum day Volonte Lisa Martin, Rebecca Knight All here in Las Vegas for Delta No stay with us We'LL be right back

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hey everyone, I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE here live in Las Vegas where Amazon Web Services, AWS re:Invent 2018. Our sixth year covering it, presented by Intel and AWS. Our next guest is Paul Savill, Senior Vice President of core network and technology for CenturyLink. Welcome to theCUBE, good to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks, really glad to be here. >> So one of the things we've been covering on SiliconANGLE and theCUBE is that the holy trinity of infrastructure is storage, network, and compute, never going away but it's evolving as the market evolves. You guys have been providing connectivity and core network. >> Right. >> Really high availability bandwidth and connectivity for many, many years. Now you guys are in the middle of a seat change, what's your story? What are you guys doing at re:Invent? You guys are partners, your logo is everywhere, What's your story? Why are you here? What are you talking about at re:Invent this year? >> Sure, yeah. You know I really do believe it is a seat change. We've actually been working with AWS for many years and when AWS first started, we were one of the major internet service providers for AWS and access into AWS cloud services, but a few years ago we really started seeing this seat change start to happen because Enterprise customers started asking for weird things from us. They actually wanted to order dedicated 10 gigabit optical waves from their Enterprise location into the AWS platform, and we were thinking everything should come through the public internet, why are people doing this? And really, what was driving it, was issues around performance, concerns around security, and so we're starting to see the network really start to play a major role in how cloud services and how performance of cloud-based applications are delivered. >> We're here in day two of re:Invent, we've got two more days to go. Andy Jackson's got his big keynote, he's the CEO he's got his big keynote tomorrow morning. We're expecting to hear latency to be a big part of his keynote. Specifically as Amazon evolves their strategy from being public cloud, where all the action is, to having a cloud version on premise. >> Right >> Because of latency and heritage or legacy workloads on premise aren't going away certainly. Maybe their footprint might be smaller, I'd buy that, but it's not going away. But connectivity and latency is now at the front of the conversation again because data and compute have that relationship. I don't want to be moving date around, if I do it better be low latency, but I want to run compute over the network, I want to send some compute to the edge. So latency is important. Talk about this, because you gave a talk here around milliseconds matter, I love that line, because they do matter now. >> They do, yeah. >> Talk about that concept. >> Sure, yeah. We're absolutely seeing it and the reason we kind of came up with that tag line is because more and more as we've been working with enterprises on networking solutions, we've found that this is really true in how well their applications perform in the cloud, and I really do applaud Jausi and AWS for working on that solution to deliver, to the prim, some of the AWS capabilities. But really we see the market evolving, where in the future it's a trade off between latency and the amount of bandwidth and how the performance needs to be applied across the field. Because we believe that some things will make a lot of sense to be hosted out of the cloud core, where there's major iron, major storage and compute, some things can be distributed on the prim, but then other things make more sense to be hosted out of somewhere on the far edge where it can serve multiple locations. It may be more efficient that way, because maybe you don't want to haul all the bandwidth, or huge amounts of data very long distances, that becomes expensive. >> Well bandwidths cost, it's a cost to you. >> It's still a cost, yeah. >> Latency, one, is a performance overhead cost on that that could hurt the application, but there's also a cost, there's actual financial cost. >> Yes, there is. >> Talk about this concept of latency in context to the new kinds of applications, because what's going on is that as compute, and as you mentioned, storage, start to get more functionality, specifically compute, >> Yes >> Things happen differently. I've been studying AI, I've been a computer science major since the 80's, and AI's been around since the 80's and earlier, but all those concepts just didn't have the compute capability and now they do, now machine learning is on fire, that's a renaissance. Compute can help connectivity, you just mentioned a huge case there, so this is powering new software applications that no one has ever seen before. >> That's right. >> How are these new networks workloads and applications changing connectivity? Give some examples, what are some of the things you guys are seeing as use cases running over the connectivity? >> Sure. So we're seeing a lot of different use cases, and you're right, it really is transforming. An example of this is retail robotics for instance. We're seeing very real applications where large retail customers want to drive robotics in their many retail store locations but it's just not affordable to put that whole hardware software stack in every single store to run those robotics, but then if you try to run those robotics from an application that hosted in a cloud somewhere a thousand miles away then it doesn't have the latency performance that it needs to accurately run those robotics in the store. So we believe that what we're starting to see is this transformation where applications are going to be broken up into these microservices where parts of it's going to run in the cloud core, part of it's going to run in the prim, and part of it's going to run on the near edge where things are more efficient to run for certain types of applications. >> It's kind of like a human. You got your brains and you got your arms and legs to move around. So the brains can be in the cloud, and then whatever is going on at the edge can have more compute. Give some other examples. You and I were talking before we came on camera about video retail analytics. >> Righ, uh huh. >> Pretty obvious when you think about it, but not obvious when you don't have cloud. So talk about video analytics. >> Yeah, that's another important driver is with all of the AI tools that are being developed and as AI advances and as other things, technology like machine learning, advances, then we want to apply AI to a whole new range of applications. So retail, like video analytics for instance, what we're starting to see is the art of the possible. You may have a retail store that has 30 different video cameras spread up around its store and it's constantly monitoring people's expressions, people's moods as they come in, there's an AI sitting somewhere that's analyzing how people feel when they walk in the store versus how they feel when they walk out. Are they happier when they walk out than when they walk in? Are they really mad when they're in the waiting line someplace, or is there a corner of the store where, real time, there's an AI that's detecting that, hey there's a problem in the corner of the store because people seem like they look upset. That type of analysis, you don't want to feed all of that video, all of those simultaneous video feeds to some AI that's sitting a thousand miles away. That's just too much of a lift in terms of bandwidth and in terms of cost. So the answer is there's this distributed model where portions of the application in the AI is acting at different locations in the network and the network is tying it all together. >> Microservice is going to create a whole new level of capabilities and change how they're implemented and deployed. >> Yes. >> And connectivity still feeds the beast called the application. Also the other thing we're seeing, as we're expected to hear Amazon announce, new kinds of connectivity, whether it be satellite and/or bandwidth to edges. IOT, or the network edge as it's called, where the edge network kind of ends with power and connectivity. Because without power and connectivity it's not on the network, it's not an edge. >> That's right. >> There's a trend to push the boundary of edge. Battery power is lasting longer, so now you need connectivity. How do you guys at Century look at this? So do you guys want to push the boundaries, how are you guys just pushing the boundaries? >> Sure. >> Yeah, IOT is another area that's really changing the business. It's opening up so many new opportunities. When you talk about the edge, it's really funny because people define the edge in so many different ways, and the truth is the edge can vary depending on what the application is. An IOT, if you have a bunch of remote devices that are battery powered that are signaling back to some central application, well then that IOT, those physical devices, are the new edge and they could be very deep into some kind of a market. But there's a lot of different communications technology that can access those. There's 5G wireless that's emerging, or regular wireless. There are applications like LauraNet, which is a very low bandwidth but very cost effective way for small IOT devices to communicate small amounts of data back to a central application. And then there's actual fiber that can be used to serve locations where IOT devices can be feeding very heavy amounts of bandwidth back to applications. >> So it's good for your business? >> It's great for our business. We really see it opening up so many other new avenues for us to serve our customers. >> So I'm going to put you on the spot here. If I asked you a question, what has cloudification done for CenturyLink? How has it changed your business? How would you respond to that question? >> I think that it's made what we do even more critical to the future of how enterprises operate. The reason for that is just the point that you made when we started, which is storage and compute and networking, it's all really coming back together in terms of how it boils down to those things. But networking is becoming a much more important factor in all of this because of the latency issues that are there and the bandwidth amount that is possible to generate. We believe that it's creating an opportunity for us to play a more pivotal role in the whole evolving cloud ecosystem. >> I still think this is such an awesome new area because, again, it's so early. And as storage, network, and compute continues to morph, all of us networking geeks and infrastructure geeks, software geeks are going to actually have an opportunity to reimagine how to use those parts. >> It is, yeah. >> And with microservices and custom silicon, you see what Amazon's done with amapertna. You can have data processing units, connectivity processing units, you can have all kinds of new capabilities. It's a whole new world. >> It is and, you know, interestingly enough organizations are going to have to change. One of the things we see with enterprises is that many enterprises are organized so that those three areas are still completely managed in separate departments. But in this new world of how cloud is crushing all of those things together, those departments are going to have to start working much more closely aligned. I had a customer visit me after our session yesterday and was saying I get the whole thing of how now when you deploy an application in the cloud, you can't just think about the application. You got to think about the network that ties it all togeher. But he says I don't know how to get my organization to do that. They're still so segmented and separated. It's a tough challenge. >> And silos are critical. I just saw a presentation with the FBI director, deputy director of counter terrorism, and they can't put the puzzle pieces together fast enough to evaluate threats because of the databases. She gave an example around the Las Vegas shooting here. Just to go through the video tape of the hotel took 12 people for 20 hours a day for a week to go through that video. They did it in twenty minutes with facial recognition. And they have all this data, so putting those puzzle pieces together is critical. I think connectivity truly is going to be a new kind of backbone. >> Yes, uh huh. >> You guys are doing some good work. Okay, lets get a plug in for you guys real quick. By the way, thanks for the insight. Great stuff here at re:Invent. One year anniversary CenturyLink with level three coming together. Synergies, what are you guys doing? Give the update on the coming one year anniversary of the Synergies. >> Sure. Uh huh. >> What are the Synergies? >> Yeah, we're getting tremendous synergies. In fact, I think if you listen to our analyst reports and our quarterly earnings calls, we're really ahead of plan in that area. We've actually raised our earnings guidance for the year as a result of what was originally expected of us. We're doing really well on that front. I'll tell you the thing that excites me more than synergies is the combined opportunity that we have because of these two companies coming together. Ways that, bringing the companies together, surprised me that we found new opportunities. For instance when you take level three, which is a globally distributed network covering Europe, and Latin America, and North America, and parts of the Pack Rim with fiber and sub sea systems, and combine it with CenturyLink's dense coverage of fiber in North America, then it really creates a stronger ability for this company to reach enterprises with very high performing network solutions. One of the main things that surprised me actually relates to this conference, and that is that CenturyLink was really focused around building out cloud services, working closely with companies like AWS on creating managed services around cloud, building performance tools around managing cloud based applications. Level three was really focused on building out network connectivity in a dynamic way to use the new software defined networking technologies to be the preferred provider of high performance networking to cloud service providers. >> The timing was pretty impeccable on the combination because you were kind of cloudifying before cloud native was called cloud native. You were thinking about it in kind of a dev ops mindset and they were kind of thinking of it from a software agility perspective out of infrastructure. Kind of bring those together. Did I get that right? >> That's exactly right. Level three was thinking about how to make the network consumable on a dynamic basis and on demand basis the same way cloud is. When you combine CenturyLink's capabilities with that then it's just opening up so many new things for us to do, so many new ways that we can deliver value to our enterprise customers. >> Well I'm always hungry for more bandwidth, so come on. You guys lighting up all that fiber? How's all the fiber? >> Yeah, we're expanding dramatically. We're investing heavily in that fiber network. We have around 160,000 enterprise buildings on our network today and we're growing that just as fast as we can. >> So Paul Sevill, you're the guy to call if I want to get some cord network action huh? >> That's right. >> Alright. Thanks for the insight, great to have you. Good luck at the show here at re:Invent. CenturyLink here inside theCUBE powering connectivity. Big part of the theme here at re:Invent this year is powering the edge, getting connectivity to places that need low latency for those workloads. That's the key theme. You guys are right on the trend line here. CenturyLink on theCUBE, I'm John Furrier. Stay with us for more wall to wall coverage after this short break. (upbeat techno music)

>> It's theCUBE, covering AWS Summit, New York, 2018, brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its ecosystem partners. >> Here in New York City, we're live at Amazon Web Services AWS Summit. This is their big show that they take on the road. It kind of originates at Amazon re:Invent in Las Vegas, their big kickoff show for the year, and then goes out to the different geographies and goes out and talks to the customers, and actually rolls out all the greatest of the cloud from Amazon's perspective. Of course theCUBE covering it, wall-to-wall cloud coverage, I'm John Furrier, co-host with Jeff Frick here today in New York City for special coverage. Jeff, Amazon obviously continue to dominate, but competition is heating up, Google Nexus next week, we'll be there live. Microsoft's got a big show, Azure's gaining market share, Amazon's still racing ahead. They got a book they're giving out here called Ahead in the Cloud, Best Practices for Enterprise IT. Amazon, clearly we talk about this all the time, they've cleared the runway from winning the startups, small, medium-sized growing business in the cloud native, to actually putting big dent in the market share for acquiring large enterprise customers. That has been their mission, that's Andy Jackson's mission, that's the team. Their head count is growing, Jeff Bezos is the richest man in history of the world. Pretty impressive story, we've been covering it since 2012, >> What's crazy is it's barely got started, John. I mean, just looking up some numbers before we came on, Gardener has a bunch of projected public cloud cans, anywhere from 180 billion to 260 billion. So even with Amazon at the head of the pace, I can't remember their last statement, I think it was 18 billion run rate, and everybody's saying Microsoft's brewing so fast. They barely still scratch the surface, and that I think is what's really scary. There'll be 50,000 people probably at re:Invent, there's 10,000 here in New York, they have these summits all over the country, all over the world, and so as impressive as the story is, what I think is even crazier is we've barely just begun. You were just at Public Sector, that's a whole 'nother giant tranche that's growing. >> Well you started to see the ecosystem develop nicely, and cloud native certainly is a tailwind for overall Amazon. Obviously the have the winning cloud formula, they've been ahead for many, many years. But again, competition's keeping up. But if you look behind us, you probably can't see in the cameras, it doesn't give justice, but this show, it's in New York City, it's a regional kind of like event. Its now looking the size of what re:Invent was just a few years ago. Public Sector Summit, which is the global public sector that Teresa Carlson runs, in really its third year roughly since it got big, started out a couple years ago. That's now morphing into the size of re:Invent, so pretty massive. >> And they said there's 10,000 people here. I don't know how many were at Public Sector. 138 sponsors, just some of the numbers that Werner shared in the keynote. 80 sessions, really an education session, it's a one-day event. We're excited to be here, but what's amazing is even though pretty much every enterprise has something going on in the public cloud, in terms of the vast majority of the workload, still most of 'em are not, and you know, really an interesting play. We were there when the AWS VMware announcement was made a couple of years back in San Francisco, as kind of this migration path, that's both been really good for VMware, and also really good for Amazon, 'cause now they have an answer to the, kind of the enterprise legacy question. >> I mean Jeff, did you look at the big picture? If you want to squint through the noise of cloud, what's really going on is, one, the analysts that are looking at market share, I think are looking at old data. It's hard to know who's really winning when you look about revenue, 'cause everyone can bundle in, Microsoft bundles Office revenue in. So it's actually, that's hard to understand, but if you look at the overall big picture, the landscape that's happening is that the enterprise and IT market has moved from being consumerization of IT to digital transformation. Those are the two buzzwords. But really what's happening is the operational model of cloud has created two real personas in the enterprise from a technical perspective. The developers who are building apps, and operators who are running the infrastructure, running the software, running the dashboards, running the operations. And so you start to see that interplay between operators and developers working together but yet decoupled, different personas. These are the ones that are changing how work gets done. So the future of how work and computing is going to be applied for end user benefits, user benefits, consumers, whether it's B2B or B2C companies, the cloud is the power engine of innovation, and new apps are coming on faster, and the roles are changing, and this is causing a shift of value. This is what the analysts at Wikibon, theCUBE, insights team has been looking at is that this is really the big thing. And machine learning, and AI, really take advantage of that, and you're going to start to see IoT, security, AI, start to be the critical apps to take advantage of this power of the cloud, and as enterprises transform their operations and their development frameworks, then I think you're going to see a whole new level of innovation. >> Right. They just had Epic Games on, the company that makes Fortnite which is a huge global phenomenon. If you don't know anything about it, ask somebody who's under the age of 15, they'll tell you all about it. >> 135 million gamers. >> The core value proposition of cloud is still the same, its flexibility, its global reach, its ability to scale up and scale down, and we've asked this question before and we're getting closer and closer with each passing day, is if we live in a world, John, with infinite compute, infinite bandwidth and infinite store, basically priced at zero, asymptotically approaching zero. What could you build? And if you could get that to the entire world instantly, what could you build, and we're really getting closer and closer to that and it's a very different way to think about the world than where you have to provision at 50% overhead, and you got to buy it and plug it in and turn it on. You know, that world is over. We're not going back, I don't think. >> If you look at the cloud players you've got Microsoft, Amazon, Google, and then we throw Alibaba, that's more of a China thing. Those are the main ones, you got Oracle for Oracle and IBM in there. You look at the companies, and look at the ones that have consumer experience, and look at the ones that don't. Microsoft has failed on the consumer business, although they have some consumer stuff, really not really been successful. Oracle and Microsoft, IBM have been business to business companies. Google and Amazon have been consumer companies that have bolted on a cloud just to run their operations. So to me what's interesting is, which one of those sides of the street, which one will emerge as the victorious cloud platform. I think I would bet on the consumer side. I like Google, I like Amazon better than Azure and Oracle and IBM, mainly because they have consumer experience, they understand the ultimate end user, and built clouds for that, and now are rolling that business. So the question is will that be the better model than having Azure or Oracle or IBM, who know the business model-- >> Right. >> But yet, will the devices matter? So this is going to be a big thing that we're going to watch on theCUBE is, which cloud play will win, or does it matter? Is it winner take all, winner take most? >> Yeah. >> This is the questions. >> Pretty interesting. You know you interviewed Mark Hurd many moons ago, for a long time, and he talked about cloudifying all the Oracle applications. The problem is, Clayton Christensen's book, Innovator's Dilemma, is still the best business book ever written. It's really hard to knock off your own core business, especially when it's profitable. That I think is Oracle's biggest problem. The other thing I think they have is, they're a sales culture, it's built around a sales culture. People are going out and it's a hard sell. That's not what the cloud is all about. It's really the commercialization of shadow IT. I need it, I turn it on, I activate it, I don't need it anymore, I turn it down, I turn it off, I turn it over. So I think Oracle's in a tough position to eat their own business. IBM is you know, continues to try different things and you know, with The Weather Company and Ustream, and they're doing a lot of things. But the core three have such momentum, Google we'll see, we're excited to be there next week and kind of get an update on what their story is, but still in the enterprise they barely scratch the surface of the available workload. >> I think that's the main story, the surface is just being scratched. If this is like the first or second inning of this game, or the second game of a double header, as Matt Dew has said on theCUBE many times, he'll come on today, it's interesting because if you think about the clouds that are best position to take advantage of new technologies, like AI, like blockchain, like token economics, those are the ones that have to be adaptable and flexible enough to take on new things, because if we're just scratching the surface, the new things that are going to come out have to scale, have to be data driven, have to be mobile, have to use AI, have to have the compute power. If you're kind of stuck in the old model and you have a ME2 cloud, it's going to be always hard to ratchet up and kind of always rearchitect and change, you need an architecture that will essentially be flexible and be adaptive. To me I think that's what we're going to look for here in the interviews today, and of course, security, Jeff, continues to be the number one conversation, at AWS re:Invent, and AWS Public Sector Summit. Security is getting better and better in the cloud and some say it's better than on-premises security. >> I think the resources that can be applied at a company like AWS, the security teams, the technology, the hardening, the private fiber connections, I mean so many things that they can apply because they have such scale, that you just can't do as a private enterprise. The other thing, right, is that people usually take better care of their customers than their own, and we know a lot of security breaches and data breaches are just from employees or somebody lost a laptop. They're these types of things where if you're an actual vendor for someone else and you're responsible for their security, you're going to be a little bit different, a little bit more diligent than kind of protecting once you're already inside the wall. >> And it changes the infrastructure, I mean just in the news this week, obviously Trump was in Helsinki, all I can see in my mind is, the servers, where are the servers, where are the servers? With the cloud you don't need servers. The whole paradigm is shifting. If you use cloud you can get encryption, you can get security. These are things that are going to start that I think be the table stakes for security, the idea of having a server, provisioning a server, managing servers per se, unless you're a cloud service provider, at some level, you're tier two or tier one, you don't need servers. This is the serverless trend. Again, Lambda functions, AI, application developers, all driving change. Again, two personas, operators and developers. This is what the swim lanes are starting to look at, we're starting to get the visibility. And of course we'll get all the data here in theCUBE, and share that with you this week. Today in New York City, live theCUBE, I'm John Furrier with Jeff Frick. Stay with us for coverage here for AWS Summit 2018. We'll be right back.

>> Live from Washington D.C. It's theCUBE, covering the AWS Public Sector Summit 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, and its eco-system partners. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to the nation's capitol. I'm Stu Miniman and you're watching theCUBE's coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit 2018. Joining me for the wrap-up of day one, John Furrier, Dave Vellante. So John, thanks for bringing us down. So you were here last year. We've interviewed Teresa Carlson a number of times at Reinvent, but we've got to start with you. Since you were here last year, watching this explode. I said, this reminds me of Reinvent three years ago, how big it is, 14,500 people, wow. >> Yeah, so you're right on. This is definitely a Reinvent kind of vibe, in a way to describe what happened with Amazon Reinvent, their annual conference which we were at the 2nd year, 2013, and have been every year. Reinvent got bigger every year, and just became more prominent, and the solutions scaled, the number of announcements, as we know Amazon today is packed, it's bigger than ever. The public sector market, which is defined as government, education, and global public sector countries like Bahrain and other countries, are really the target. They have unique requirements. So what's happening is that that market is being disrupted, and there's been similar moments in the public sector here in the United States, as well known. The fail of the website that Obama. You know, the health care sight was one. The government initiatives that have been going on. The government is not modern and people are frustrated. The IT workers are living in cages, they're strapped in. It's like, not good. The tooling's old, old client server, old vendors like Oracle and IBM and others that are trying to keep that business, and they're not modernizing. So, this modernization wave has hit the public sector across the board, and what's happening is they can actually build newer systems faster, and get lower cost, more efficiency, done faster. And this is disrupting not only their business model, but how they buy technology, the role of the supplier in that piece of the equation, and also just overall faster innovation. So, this is driving it. The shocker of all of it is the security conversation has been up leveled, meaning it's not a real issue. Certainly the security is a real issue, but in terms of a barrier that stops everything, that's not the case anymore. The CIA is really the most notable that came on and said the worst day in cloud security is better than anything we got working today. So that's a really interesting thing and the Department of Defense Jedi project is billions of dollars that would have gone to say, an Oracle, IBM, and all the incumbents, or, beltway bandits, as they've been called. Those days are over. So that to me is a really exciting thing for the country. But, Amazon is running the tables too. So again, this year, more of the same, bigger. Big agencies. Small partners and big, all riding the wave of growth. And, it's a new operating model, and again, we'll predict it here in theCUBE, as we always say, and then we'll be right again. This is going to be a special market for Amazon going forward. >> I think government market is definitely a microcosm of the overall marketplace as John said. It's very bureaucratic, they're slower to move, you got to regime change every four or eight years, so a lot of turnover. It's really hard to get. Okay, we're going to go with strategy, cause the strategy as they start stop, it's a near to mid term strategies are affected in the government. Obviously, there's a greater focus on security. Cloud addresses a lot of those. We certainly heard that from the CIA. I don't think you can talk about cloud and federal, without talking about that milestone CIA deal. That really was a watershed moment. It was a wake up call to the old guard. IBM, as you might recall, tried to fight the government, because the CIA awarded the contract to Amazon. IBM lost that case, they were eviscerated by the judge. It forced IBM to go out and pay two billion dollars for software. It was years later that Oracle really got in. So, Amazon, to an earlier guest's point, has a huge lead. The estimate was five to 10 years, I heard, over some of the legacy suppliers. Interesting, not sure exactly where Microsoft fits in there. Stu, I'd love to get your thoughts. The thing about cloud that we've, John, you talk about being right, for years, we've talked about the economics of cloud, the scale of cloud, the marginal economics, looking much more like software. That's clearly been to Amazon's advantage. And, they're mopping the floor with guys who can't keep pace. And so, that's played out in a big way, and this seems to be a winner take all market. Or, a few companies take all market. >> Yeah, the thing that I actually wanted to comment on that's really interesting to dig in here, is if you talk about application modernization. Yes, it is super challenging, and it's not happening overnight, but, have heard universities, non profits, they're moving. It's not just mobility, moving to the web, but talking about how they are decoupling and creating cloud native microservices environments. So, was talking to a large, government healthcare organization that was super excited to show me how he was going to take his really old application, and start pulling together services at a time. And, he's like, I've got 130 services. And here's how I'll stick a router in here and I'll start pulling them off to the cloud. Talked to a big university and said, how are they going from, my data center, which I'm out of power, I'm out of capacity. I'm going to use the VMWare thing, but over time, I'm moving to containers, I'm moving to serverless. That modernization, we know it's not moving all of it to the public cloud, but that migration is happening. It is challenging and as I've said many times in many of these Amazon shows, Dave and John, it's the companies that come here. They're the ones that are trying cool stuff. They're are able to play in some of these environments and they make progress. So, the thing that really excites me too, is when you hear government agencies that are doing innovative, cool things. It's like, how do I leverage my data and give back to the communities I serve. Help charities, help our communities, and do it in cost effective ways. >> Stu, I got to say, Dave, Theresa Carlson just came by theCUBE, we gave her a wave. She's the CEO of Public Sector, as I call her, she's the chief, she's in charge. Andy Jackson's the CEO of AWS, but again, public sector's almost its own little pocket of AWS. Her leadership, I think, is a real driving force of why it was successful so fast. Theresa Carleson is hard charging, she knows the government game. She's super nice, but she can fight. And she motivates her team. But she listens to the customers, and she takes advantage of that Amazon vibe, which is solve a problem, lower prices, make things go faster, that's the flywheel of the culture. And she brings it to a whole nother level. She's brought together a group of people that are succeeding with her. She leans on her partners, so partners are making money. She's bringing in cloud native kind of culture. I mean, CrowdStrike, you can't get any better than seeing guys like CrowdStrike raise 200 million dollars, Dave, today announced, worth over three billion dollars, because they built their system to work for cloud scale. CloudChecker, another company. Purpose built for the cloud and is extremely successful because they're not trying to retrofit an enterprise technology and make it cloudified. They actually built it for the cloud. This, to me, is a signal of what has to happen on successful deployments, from a customer standpoint. And I think that's what attracting the customers and they will change their operations 'cause the benefits are multifold and they're pretty big. Financially, operationally, culturally, it's disruptive. So I think that's a key point. >> Yeah, and I think again, this a microcosm of the larger AWS, which is a microcosm of the larger Amazon, but, some of the things we heard today, some of the benchmarks and milestones from Theresa on the keynote. 60 consultancies that she put up on the slide, 200 ISVs ans SAAS companies, 950 third-party software providers, this is all GovCloud. And then Aurora now in GovCloud, which is, you know, you see here, it lags. >> Database. >> Amazon and Specter, you've heard a lot about database. Amazon and Specter, which manages security configurations. We heard about the intent to go forward with the VMWare partnership, the VMWare cloud in GovCloud. So, a little bit behind where you see the Amazon web services in commercial. But, taking basically the same strategy as John said. The requirements are different. I also think, Stu and John, it's important to point out just the progress of AWS. We're talking about tracking to 22 billion dollars this year. They're growing still at 15 percent, that massive number. 26 percent operating income. Their operating income is growing at 54 percent a year. So, just to compare Amazon web services to other so called infrastructure providers, HPE's operating income is eight percent, IBM's is nine percent, VMWare, which is a software company, is at 19 percent, Amazon's at 26 percent. It's Cisco level of profitability. Only companies like Oracle and Microsoft are showing better operating income. This is that marginal economics, that we've talked about for years. And Amazon is crushing it, just in terms of the economic model. >> Yeah, and they bring in the public sector. Can you imagine that disruption for that incumbent mindset of these government kind of agencies that have been the frog in boiling water for so many years around IT. It's like Boom, what a wake up call. If you know IT, you know what it's like. Older tools, huge budget cycles, massive amounts of technology trends in terms of time to value. I mean, Stu, you've seen this buoy before. >> Yeah, absolutely, and it's interesting. Some of the things we heard is there's challenge in the government sometimes, moving from capex to opex. The way that government is used to buying is they buy out of the GSA catalog, they are making that move. We actually had on the federal CTO for Cohesity, came from the GSA, and he said we're making progress as an industry on this. Dave, you mentioned a whole lot of stats here. I mean, year after year, Q1 Amazon was up 49 percent revenue growth. So, you know, you always hear on the news, it's like, oh well, market share is shifting. Amazon is still growing at such a phenomenal pace, and in the GovCloud, one of the things I thought Kind of interesting that gets overlooked is the GovCloud is about five years, no it launched in August of 2011, so it's coming up on seven years. It's actually based out of the West Coast. They have GovCloud, US East is coming later this year. And we talked in the VMWare interview that we did today about why some of the lag and you need to go through the certification and you need to make sure there's extra security levels. Because, there's not only GovCloud, then they've got the secret region, the top secret region, so special things that we need to make sure that you're FedRAMP compliant and all these things. Amazon is hitting it hard, and definitely winning in this space. >> Yeah, and they have a competitive advantage, I mean, they're running the table, literally. Because no body else has secret cloud, right? So, Amazon, Google, others, they don't have what the spec requires on these big agencies, like the DOD. So, it's not a sole source deal. And we saw the press that President Trump had dinner with Safra Catz, the CEO of Oracle. And, that Amazon, that people are crying foul. Making a multicloud, multivendor kind of, be fair, you know fairness. Amazon's not asking for sole source, they're just saying we're responding to the bid. And, we're the only ones that actually can do it. You know, John Wood, the CEO of Telos, said it best on theCUBE today, Amazon is well down the road, five years advantage over any cloud, five years he said. >> There's no compression algorithm for experience, right? >> Right, right, but this is a real conundrum for the government buyers, the citizens, and the vendors. So, typically, let's face it, technology, IBM, HPE, Oracle, Dell, they can all pretty much do the same thing. Granted, they got software, Cisco, whatever. They got their different spaces, but head to head, they all pretty much can do what the RFP requires. But what you just pointed out John, is Amazon's the only one that can do a lot of this stuff, and so, when they say, okay let's make it fair, what they're really saying is, let's revert back to the mean. Is that the right thing for the citizens? That's the kind of question that's on the table now. As a citizen, do you want the government pushing the envelope... >> That's what he said from CrowdStrike, why go backwards? >> Right, right, but that's essentially what the old guard is saying. Come back to us, make it fair, is that unfair? >> You're too successful, let the competition catch up, so it can be fair. No, they've got to match up the value proposition. And that fundamentally is going to put the feet to fire of government and it's going to be a real critical tell sign on how much teeth to the mission that the government modernization plan is. If that mission to be modernizing government has teeth, they will stay in the course. Now, if they have the way to catch up, that's great. I can already hear it on Twitter, John, you don't really know what you're talking about. Microsoft's right there. Okay, you can say you're doing cloud, but as they teach you in business school, there's diseconomies of scale, to try to match a trajectory of an experienced cloud vendor. Stu, you just mentioned that, let's explore that. If I want to match Amazon's years of experience, I can say I'm up there with all these services, but you can't just match that overnight. There's diseconomies of scale, reverse proxies, technical debt, all kinds of stuff. So, Microsoft, although looking good on paper, is under serious pressure and those diseconomies of scales creates more risk. That more risk is more downtime. They just saw 11 hours of downtime on Microsoft Azure in Europe, 11 hours. That's massive, it's not like, oh, something just happened for a day. >> Here's the behind the scenes narrative that you hear from certain factions. Is, hey, we hire people, let's say I'm talkin' about Microsoft, we hire people out of Amazon too, we know where they're at. We think we've narrowed that lead down to six months. You and I have both heard that. When you talk to people on the other side of the table, it's like, no way, there's no way. We're movin' faster, in fact, our lead is extended. So, the proof is in the pudding. In the results that you see in the marketplace. >> Well, and just to build on that, the customers. Amazon has the customers, you talk to anybody that's in these agencies, you know, like any industry, they're all moving around. Not only the federal, but, I had a great interview with Nutanix this morning, he said this was the best collection of state and local government that I ever had. It's like I got to meet all my customers in person last year when they came here. So, the fed kind of sets the bar, and then state, local, education, they all learn there. So, as you said, John, Theresa and her team have really built a flywheel of customers, and those customers, they understand the product. They're going deeper on that. >> But look, Microsoft has success where it has a software state. Clearly there are a lot of Microsoft customers in the government, and they're going to do very well there. But it's really different. We're talkin' about the inventor, essentially, of infrastructure as a service in Public Cloud and Amazon with a clean sheet of paper. >> Microsoft, Google and the others, they have to catch up. So, really if you look at, let's compare and contrast. Amazon, first mover, they did the heavy lifting up front. They win the CIA deal three, four years ago. Now they're going to win the DOD deal and more. So, they've got the boiler plate, and they've got scale, economies of scale. Microsoft's got to catch up, so, they've got diseconomies of scale. Google is kind of backing out, we heard. Some Google employees revolting cause they don't want to work on these AI projects for drones or what not. But, Google's approach is not tryin' to match Amazon speed for speed, they're thing is they have leverage. Their Android, their security, the data. So, Google's staying much more pragmatic. And they're humble, they're saying, look, we're not tryin' to match Amazon. But we're going to have a badass cloud from a Google perspective. Microsoft hasn't yet said that, they just try to level up. I think if Microsoft takes that approach, they will do well. >> Well, you got to give Microsoft a lot of credit, obviously for the transformation that's occurred. Again it's still tied to the company's software estate, in my view anyway. >> All right Stu, what's your impression, what's your take? >> So, John, like every Amazon show I've been to, I'm impressed, it set a high bar. We go to a lot of shows and not only are there more people here, but the quality of people, the energy, the passion, the discussion of innovation and change, is just super impressive. >> You and I cover cloud data pretty deep. We go to all the shows, obviously the Lennox Foundation and Amazon Reinvent, and others. Does the Public Sector have that vibe in your opinion? What's your sense of it? >> Oh, yeah, no, I've already had a couple of conversations about Kubernetes and Lambda, you know, more serverless conversations at this show than almost any show I go to, other than probably KubeCon or the Serverless conf. So, no, advanced users, these are not the ones, a couple of years ago, oh I'm checking what this is. No, no, no, they're in, they're deep, they're using. >> Yeah, I notice also, near the press room, they had the certification stickers, now levels of certifications. So, they're just movin' the ball down the field at Amazon. Dave, I want to go to you and ask you what your impression is. Obviously, you know, we've done shows like HPE Reinvent, which we didn't do this year. That's goin' down its own path. We've got other shows. >> HPE Discover you mean. >> What did I say? >> You said Reinvent. >> Okay, every year they break. >> There's two ends of the spectrum. >> You know, there's is going to try to transform. What's your take of this show, Public Sector? What's your view? >> Well, first of all, it's packed. And, the ecosystem here is really robust. I mean, you see the consultancies, you see every technology vendor, I mean, it's quite amazing. They got to figure out the logistics, right? I've never seen a line so long. The line to get into registration was longer than Disney lines this morning. I mean, really, it was amazing. >> It's a Disneyland for Public Sector. >> It really is, and people are excited here. I think you were touching upon it before. They've sort of been hit with this bureaucratic, you know, cemented infrastructure. And now, it's like they're takin' the gloves off and they're really excited. >> Stu and Dave, I really got to say, I'm not a big federal person, over the years in my career but my general impression over the past couple years, diggin' in here, is that most of the people in the agency want to do a good job. I saw that last year, it's like, these are real innovators. And finally they can break away, right, and do some real, good. Not do shadow IT, do it legit with a cloud. So, good stuff. Guys, thanks for commentating, Stu? >> Yeah, so let me bring it on home. I just want to say, this goes up in a podcast, if you go to your favorite podcast player and look for theCUBE Insights, you'll find this as well as the key analysis from our team from all of the shows. Of course, as always, go to theCube dot net to get all the research. If you want the exclusive, more detail on Theresa Carlson, just search John Ferrier in Forbes and you'll find that article. This is the end of Day One of two days live coverage from AWS Public Sector. Of course, theCUBE dot net, come find us, we've got stickers if you're at the show. For Dave Vellante, John Furrier, I'm Stu Miniman. And as always, thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> We're back at Dell Technologies World. It's the inaugural Dell Technologies World. You're watchin' The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vallante, and I'm really excited to have Sanjay Poonen on, COO of VMWare, long-time Cube alum. Great to see you, my friend. >> Always great, Dave. >> Thanks again so much for makin' time. I know you're in and out, but things are good. We had Pat on, on Monday. You guys made the call early on. You said to the industry, you know, I think the industry handed us and maybe the forecasts are a little bit conservative. We're seeing great demand. We love our business right now, and it's comin' true. Data centers booming, VMWare's kickin' butt. It's goin' great. >> You know it's been obviously a very good couple of years, since the Dell EMC merger. It's really helped us, and you know, when we think about our partnerships, we put this in a very special place. In the last two years, partnerships like Dell and AWS have been very instrumental, built on top of the partnerships we've had for many years. And our core principles at VMWare have not changed. We're really focused on software defining the data center. Why? Because it makes you more agile, removes costs, reduces complexity, makes the planet more green. We think we've got a long way to go in just building that private cloud, making the data center feel like a cloud. That's priority number one. Priority number two, extending tno the hybrid cloud. Last time we talked was at AWS Reinvent. That's very important. We're doing a bit of work there at AWS and many other clouds. And user computing, making sure that every one of these type of devices are secure and managed, whether it's Apple devices, Google, or Microsoft. Those three priorities have still stayed the same, and now Dell's comin' to give us a lot more of that sort of draft, to help us do that inside the Dell EMC customer base, too. >> Yeah, I mean you guys are doin' it again, the whole, NSX obviously is booming. >> Sanjay: Big launch this week. >> You know, it's funny, the whole software-defined networking thing. Everybody flocked to it. VCs flocked to it. You guys changed the game with that Nycera acquisition. I mean, could you imagine, I guess you did imagine what it was going to become, I mean it's really taken off in a big way. >> Bold move. I got to give credit to the, I mean I wasn't at the company at the time, but I got to tell you, when I saw that I was stunned. Paying 1.2 billion for a company that didn't have much revenue. But here we are. We talked about it in our earnings call being a 1.4 billion one rate business. 4,500 hundred customers. We were zero customers five years ago when we did the acquisition, and what we really defined is that the future of networking is going to be software-defined, clearly, and it's much the same way a Tesla is transforming the automotive industry, right? What's the value of a Tesla? It's not just the hardware, but the software that's changing the way in which you drive, park, all of the mapping, all of that stuff. We believe the same way the networking industry's going to go through mighty revolution. We think the data center gets more efficeint and driven through software. The path into the into the public cloud, and the path to the branch, and that's what we as we launched our virtual cloud networking. It's extremely differentiated in the industry. We're the only ones really pioneering that, and we think it's extremely visionary. And we're excited to take our customers on this journey. It was a big launch for us this week, and we think NSX is just getting started. 4500 customers is about 1% of our roughly 500,000 customers Every single one of them should be looking at NSX. Big opportunity ahead of us. >> Huge. And the cloud play, we talked about this at VM World last summer. The clarity now that your customers have. They can now make bets for a couple of cycles anyway, really having confidence in your cloud strategy. You've seen that, I'm sure, in your customer base. >> We have, and you know, it started off by telling the world that the 4,000 service providers that have built their stack on VMWare, VMWare Cloud Providers, VCPP, are all going to be very special to us as they build out their clouds, often in many specialized country that have country-specific cloud requirements. But the we're going to take the public clouds and systematically start working them. IBM cloud was the first, When they acquired software we had a strong relationship with them, announced two or three years ago. And then I think the world was shocked. It was almost, as I've described on the media, a Berlin Wall moment, when AWS and VMWare came together because it sort of felt like the United States and Soviet German in 1987, okay? And you know, here we have these two companies, really workin'. That's worked out very well for us, and then we've done systematic other things with Azure, Google, and so on and so forth, and we'll see how the public cloud plays out, but we think that that hybrid cloud bridge. We're going to be probably the only company who can really play a very pivotal role in the world moving from private cloud to public cloud and there's going to be balance on both sides of that divide. >> So you really essentially are trying to become the infrastructure for the digital world now, aren't you? Talk about that a little bit. You're seeing new workloads, obviously AI's all the buzz. You guys are doing some work in blockchains. It's going to take a while for all that to pick up, but really it's the ability and containers is the other thing. Everybody thought, oh containers, that's the end of VMs, and Pat at the time said, no no no, you guys don't understand. Let me explain it. He sort of laid it out. You seem to be embracing that, again embracing change. >> I got to tell you, that one for me because I'll tell you when I first joined the company four and a half years ago, I was at SAP. I asked Pat two questions. I said the public cloud's going to, I mean, probably take out VMWare, aren't you concerned with Amazon. Here we are taking that headwind and making a tailwind. The second was like, everyone's talking about Docker. Aren't containers going to just destroy VMs? And that one wasn't as clear to us at the time, but we were patient. And what happened we started to notice in the last few years. We began to notice on GitHub tremendous amount of activity around Kubernetes, and here comes Google almost taking the top off of a lot of you know parts of Docker Two, Docker Swarm, Enterprise, Docker still remains a very good container format, but the orchestration layers become a Google-based project called Kubernetes. And I think our waiting allowed us and pivotal to embrace Google in the partnership that we announced last year. And we plan to become the de facto enterprise container platform. If VMs became the VM in VMWare and we have 500,000 customers, tens of millions of VMs, you'd think we could multiply those VMs by some number to get number of containers. VMWare has its rightful place, a birthright, to become the de facto enterprise container platform. We're just getting started, both between us and Pivotal, the Kubernetes investment, Big deal. And we're going to do it in partnership with companies like Google. >> I want to ask you about Pivotal. When Joe Tucci was the swansong in the MC world, he came out with an analyst meeting and we asked them, if you had a mulligan, you know, what would you do over again. He said, you know, we're going to answer it this way. He said, I wished I had done more to bring together the family, you know, the federation. We laid that vision out, and I probably, he said, personally I probably could've done more. I feel like Michael has taken this on. I almost feel like Joe, when he laughs at Michael. My one piece of advice is do a better job than I did with that integration. And it seems like Michael's takin' that on as an outsider. What can you tell us about the relationship between all the companies, particularly Pivotal. >> Yeah, you know Joe's a very special man, as our chairman, and Joe and Pat are the reasons I joined VMWare, and so I have tremendous respect for them. And he stayed on as an advisor to Mike O'Dell. And I think Mike O'Dell just took a lot of those things and improved on it. I wouldn't say that anything was dramatically bad, but you know he tightened up much of the places where we could work together. One material change was having the Dell EMC reps carry quota, for example VMWare. They're incetivized. That has been a huge difference to allow us to have our sales forces completely align together. Big big huge difference. I mean, sales people care about our product when they're compensated, carry quota on it, and drive it. The second aspect was in many of these places where Dell and VMWare or VMWare and Pivotal were needed to just take obstacles out of the way, and I don't think Pivotal would've been really successful if it had stayed in VMWare four or five years ago. So Paul Mertz leaving, the genius of that whole move, which Joe orchesthrated, and allowing them to flourish. Okay, here they have four or five years, they've gone public. They have a tremendous amount of traction. Then last year, we began to see that Kubernetes Coming back allowed us to get closer to them, okay? We didn't need to do that necessarily by saying that Pivotal needs to be part of VMWare. We just needed to build a joint engineering effort around Kubernetes And make that enormously successful. So you get the best of both worlds. We're an investor, obviously, in Pivotal. We're proud of their success in the public markets. We benefit some from that sort of idea process, but at the same time we want to make sure this Kubernetes Effort and the broader app platform, our cloud foundry, is enormously successful, and every one of our customers who have VMs starts looking containers. >> Well, I always said Pivotal was formed with a bunch of misfit toys that just didn't seem to fit into VMWare. >> Sanjay: It's come a long way. >> And you took that, but it was smart because you took it and said, here it is. Let's start figuring that out. Who better to do that than Paul? And it's really come together and obviously a very successful. >> Yeah, Rob, Scott, Bill, Yara, many of that team there. They're passionate about developers, okay? We understand the infratstructure role very well, but when you can get dev and ops together, in a way they collaborate, so we're excited about it. And we have a key part for us, we have a very simple mission: to make the container platform just very secure. What's the differenetiation between us and other companies trying to build container platforms? NSX? So our contribution into that is to take Kubernetes Watch for some of the management capabilities, and then add NSX to it, highly differentiate it. And now all of a sudden customers say, this is the reason why I mean, 'cause every container brings a place where the port could be insecure. NSX makes that secture, and we think that that's another key part to what's made NSX the launch this week extremely sepcial is that its story relates to cloud and containers. Those two Cs, I would say, cloud and containers. We've taken what were headwinds to us, VMWare over the last four or five years, and made them tailwinds. And for us that's been a tremendous learnnig lesson, not just I would say in our own technology road map, but in leadership and management. That's important for us as business leaders, too. >> Dave: And I got to give some love to my friends in the Vsin world, Yen Bing and those guys. Obviously Vsin doin' very well. Give us the update there. I mean, you're doin', he's doin' exactly what you said: we're going to do to networking and storage what we did to compute. >> I mean, again you know, when we start things off. If you'll remember, three or four years ago, we were confusing EMC and VMWare, Evo, Rails, some of those things. We just had to clean that up. And as Dell EMC came together and VMWare, we said, listen. We're going to do software-defined storage really well because it has a very close synergy point to the Kubernetes I mean, we know a lot about storage because it's very closely connected to Compute. And if we could do that better than anybody else, and in the meantime all these startups were doing reasonably well, Simplicity, Nutanics, Pivotry, so on and so forth. I mean there's no reason if we don't have our act together we could build the best software-defined storage and then engineer a system together with Dell that has the software, and that's what VX rails has become. So a few false stubs of the toe when we started off, you know three or four years ago, but we've come a long way. Pat talked about over 10,000 customers at the revenue run rate that we announced last year, and a 600 million run rate at the end of Q4. We believe we are, for just the software piece, we are the de facto leader, and we have to continue to make customers happy and to drive, you know, this as the future of hyper converge infrastructure because converged had its place. And now the coming together of Compute Storage, over time networking with a layer of management, that's the future of the data center. >> Yeah, I was watching. THere's some good, interesting maneuvering goin' on in the marketplace. A lot of fun for a company like ours to watch. I want to talk about leadership. There's a great, you got to go to Sanjay's LinkedIn profile. There's an awesome video on there. It's like a mini TED talk that some of your folks mashed up and put out there. It's only about eight minutes. But I want to touch on some of the things that I learned from that video. Your background, I mean I knew you came from India. You came over at 18 years old, right? >> Sanjay: I was very fortunate. I grew up in a poor home in India, and I came here only because I got a scholarship to go to Dartmouth College. And I think I might have been one of the few brown-skinned guys in Hanover, New Hampshire. I mean, you've been there, you know there's not much Indian goin' on here. (laughter) But I'm very forutnate. And this country is a very special country to immigrants, if you work hard and if you're willing to apply yourself. I'm a product of that hard work. And now as an Indian American living in California. So I feel very fortunate for all that both the country and people who invested in me over the last many decades have helped me become who I am. >> So you were on a scholarship to Dartmouth. >> Yes, that's right. >> As a student in India. So obviously an accomplished student in India, and you said, you know, I got bullied a little bit. I had the glasses, right? Somebody once told me, Dave, don't peak in high school. It's good advice, right? So it was funny to hear you tell that story because I see you as such a charismatic, dynamic leader. I can't picture you as, you know, a little kid getting bullied. >> We were always geeks at one point in time, but one of the things my mother and dad always taught me, especially my mom, who had a tremendous influence on my life and is my hero, is, listen, don't worry what people say about you, okay? Your home is always going to feel a safety and a fortress to us, and I appreciate the fact that irrespective of what happened on the playground, if I was bullied, at home I knew it was secure. And I seek to have that same attitude twoards my children and everybody I consider my extended family, people at work, and so on and so forth. But once you've done that, you don't build your identity just to what people say about you. You're going to build your identity over what's done over a long period of time, okay? With, of course, if everybody in the world hates you, that's a tough place. That's happened to a few people in the world. I wasn't in that state at all. And as I came to this country, just got tougher because I was a minority in a place. But many of those lessons I learned as a young boy helped me as an 18 year old, as I came here, and I'm very thankful for that. >> And you came here with no money, alright? >> A scholarship. >> Right. >> Maybe 50 bucks in the pocket. >> You had 50 bucks and an opportunity, and made the most of it. And then obviously you did very well at Dartmouth. You graduated from Harvard, right? >> I did my MBA at Harvard. >> MBA at Harvard, probably met some interesting people there. >> Andy Jackson being one of them. >> I know he's a friend of yours. >> Sam Berg, who's the head of the client business, was also a classmate of mine at HBS. The '97 class of HBS had some accomplished people: Chris Kapensky is running McDonald's. She's President of US. So I'm very fortunate to have some good classmates there. >> So what did you do? Did you go right to Harvard from? >> No, I spent four years working at Apple. And then went back to do my business school. >> And then what'd you do after that? >> I came back to Silicon Valley at a startup. I was one of the founding product managers at AlphaBlocks. Then went to Informatica. And bulk of my time was at SAP, and most of my life was in the analytics, big data business. What we called big data at the time. >> And that's when we first met it. >> Analytics at BI, and then when Joe and Pat called me for this, the end-user computing role at VMWare four and a half years ago. That's when I came to VMWare. >> And that was a huge coup for VMWare. We knew you from SAP, and that business was struggling. You always give credit to your team, of course. Awesome. Which is what a good leader does. The other thing I wanted to touch on before we break is, you talked about leadership and how importatn it is to embrace cahnge. You said you have three choices when change hits you. What are those three choices? >> You either embrace it, okay? You either stand on the sidelines or you leave. And that's typically what happens in any kind of change, whether it's change in work, change in fafmilies, change in other kinds of religious settings, I mean it's a time-old prinicple. And you want to let the people who are not on board with it leave if they want to leave. The people who are staying in the middle and not yet convinced, you'll hope they'll do. But they cannot yet throw the grenades, 'cause then they're just going to be. And you want to take that nucleus of people who are with you in the change to help you get the people who sit on the sidelines in. And to me when I joined VMWare, the end-user computing team had the highest attrition, okay, and the lowest satisfaction. And I found the same thing. There were popel who were leaving in droves. Some people sittin' on the sidelines, but a core group of people I loved that were willing to really work with me, 'cause I didn't really know a lot about it. The smarter people were in the team and some people that we hired in. We had to take that group and become the chagne agents, and when that happens it's a beautiful thing because from within starts to form this thing that's the phoenix rising out of the ashes. And the company, and then these people who are sidelineers start to get involved. New people want to join. Now everybody wants to be part of the end-user computing team at VMWare because we're a winner, but it wasn't that way four and a half years ago. Same thing in cloud. How are we going to transform this cloud business to be one where, VCloudAir. We're being made fun of, like how are you ever going to compete with Amazon. We had to go through our own catharsis. We divested that business, but out of that pain point came a fundamental change. Some people left. Some people stayed, but I'm just grateful through all of this that we learned a tremendous amount. I think change is the most definitive thing that happens to every company, and you have to embrace it. If you embrace chance, it's going to make you a much stronger leader. I'll tell you, the Mandarin word, okay, for crisis is two symbols: one that shows disaster and one that shows opportunity. I choose the opportunity side. >> Dave: You choose? Right? Yeah! >> And eveyrone makes that choice, right? And if you make the right path, it could be a beautiful learning experience. >> Sanjay, words to live by. Definitely check out that video on Sanjay's profile. >> It's on LinkedIn. >> Really fabulous always to sit down and talk to you. >> Always a pleasure, Dave. Congratulations to all your success. >> Dave: Thank you! I really appreaciate your support. >> Thank you. >> Alright, everybody that's it from Dell Technologies World 2018. You can hear the music behind us. Next week, big week. We've got Red Hat Summit. I'll be at Service Now Knowledge. We got a couple of other shows and tons of shows coming up. I don't know, you were at Vmon last year. I don't know if you're going to be there this year, maybe maybe not, we'll see. >> Well we got a big one coming up at VM World. We'll see you there. >> We got big one coming up, VM World, at the end of August through early September, which is back at Mosconi this year? >> It's back at Las Vegas still. One more thing and then it's going back to Mosconi after the construction's over. >> So go to theCUBE.net, check out all the shows. Thanks for watching, everybody. We'll see you next time. (digital music)

from Austin Texas it's the cube covering cube con and cloud native con 2017 brought to you by Red Hat the Lenox foundations and the cubes ecosystem partners hello everyone welcome to the cube live in Austin Texas for exclusive coverage of cloud native conference and cube con cube con with the linux foundation on john fourier co-founder silicon angle media tube Minutemen with ricky bond and also covering the developer community we just came off Amazon reinvent last week we're now in Austin Texas for a continuation of the Builder theme around this new generation of developers exclusive coverage of cloud native con and cube con or cube cons to cube con like kubernetes john byrne not to be confused with the cube of course when 2018 we're gonna do cube con right John yeah so cube con is coming to check for local listings around an area near you will be will be there stew what a great event I love this events one of my favorite events as you know personally for the cube audience out there and who know us I've been following us we've been growing up with this community we've been covering the Linux Foundation from the beginning if you go back to our roots around 2010 we've always been on the next wave whether it was big date of the converge infrastructure on the enterprise and then cloud the cube is always on the wave and then wave and we call that we were there when kubernetes was formed we were there with the principles JJ when and his team cuz Maddock with blue Tucker kind of brain so me hey we should do kubernetes and we said then kubernetes would be huge it would be the orchestration that would be the battleground in what we were at the time calling the middleware of the cloud turns out that was true that is happening huge change in the ecosystem as containerization with docker originally starting it and then the evolution of how software developers are voting with their workloads they're voting with their code and no better place than the Linux Foundation to your analysis obviously we're super excited but there's some dynamics going on there's a class of venture backed companies that I won't say are groping for a strategic position are certainly investing in open source but brings up the questions of the business model where's the value being created what is the right strategy do I do services do I have a different approach there's a lot of different opinions and if the customers choose wrong they could be on the wrong side of history as this massive wave of innovation with AI machine learning is impacting infrastructure and DevOps it's awesome we heard Netflix on stage let's do what's your take what's going on here cloud native cons yeah so so John I love you know Dan who were you know runs the CN CF gets out on stage and he says you know it's exciting time for boring infrastructure maybe maybe too exciting I even said you know we've been watching this wave of you know containerization and kubernetes and this whole CN CF ecosystem has really taken you know that container piece and exploded beyond this really talking about how I build for these cloud native environments you know there's 14 projects here kubernetes is the one that kicked it off but so many pieces of what's happening here john AWS last week phenomenal like 45,000 people a lot of the real builders the ones you know heavily involved in projects or like ah I actually might skip AWS come to come to coop con this coop con this is where you know so many people we've seen you know founders of companies working on so many projects you know large community you know great community focus I know you like Netflix up there talking about culture big diversity I think what was it 130 scholarships for people of diversity there so really phenomenal stuff you know this is where really that multi-cloud world is being built yeah and good points too because that's really the elephant in the room which is the prophets and the monetization of developer communities is not the primary but it's a big driver and how people are behaving and Amazon reinvent in this world are parallel universes you know it's interesting you don't see a lot of reinvent hoodies I wore mine last night got a couple dirty looks but this is you see a lot of Google you see a lot of Microsoft John John John we have Adrian Cockcroft was in the keynote this morning everybody's saying we're braising the databases here you don't think that's the case I think everyone does embrace it isn't number one isn't really no second place they're far back as I said at reinvent I still stand by that but you got big players okay dan cohen basically said on stage okay it's my projects products and profits and they're putting profits actually in the narrative because they're not shying away from soup but it's not a pay-to-play kind of ecosystem here it's like saying look at the visibility of the cloud has shine the light on the fact that there is an opportunity to create value of which value then can be translated to monetization and developers like to get paid no one likes that do things totally for free that is the scoreboard of value it's not just about chasing the dollar and I think I like how the CN CF is putting out the prophets saying look at this real value here in businesses is real value in products that come from these projects this is a new era and open source I think that's legit again pay-to-play is a completely different animal yeah vendors come in control the standards pay pay pay not anymore Brendan burns told me last year Microsoft no pay to play Microsoft's got a big platform they're gonna come in and make things happen ok so John the money thing is a big question I have coming into this week dan talked up on stage there's certified service providers for kubernetes and there's certified kubernetes partners 42 certified kubernetes partners for the most part kubernetes has been commoditized today that certification doesn't mean that hundred-percent everything works but it definitely over a you know short period of time it will be means that I if I choose any platform that uses kubernetes that certified I can move from one to the other it doesn't mean that I'm actually going to make money selling kubernetes it's that that's part of the platform or services that arm offering and it is an enabler and you know that's what's a little different you think about you know John we try for years OpenStack thought we were gonna make money on it how we're gonna make money even go back to Linux you know it's what can be built using this set of tools so people have said this is really rebuilding the analytics for the cloud environment but money is kind of its derivative off of it it's an enabler to are there great software it brilliants dude this is the bottom line here it's the tale of two stories in the industry okay this in the backdrop is this and if prices are an IT specifically in development teams platforms are shifting big time the old is an old guard as Andy Jackson said the invest in a new guard the dynamics are containerization drove megatrend number one that turbocharged the cloud infrastructure and gave developers some freedom micro-services then take it to another level what it's actually done has changed at two theaters in the industry theater one is the vendors that are getting funded that participants in open source work trying to create value and then what I would call the rest of the market there is an onboarding a tsunami of new developers coming in I'm seeing in the in theater one all the people that we know in the industry and then I'm seeing new faces these are people who are going to the light the light is the monetization and that's the value creation so you seeing people here for the first time you're seeing developers who have a clear line of sight that this community creates value so that's two dynamics so that the companies that got a hundred million dollars in funding from venture capitals they're trying to figure out can they take advantage of that wave of new developers there's been an in migration into cloud native of new developers and these are the ones they're going to be creating the value the creativity the solutions and certainly the cultural impact from those solutions will be great I see a great opportunity if people just don't get scared and just hold the line keep your hitting value it'll figure itself out so the evolution is natural and that is something I'm interesting to see okay and John the thing I'm looking for this week first of all when we talked about containers we talked about this whole cloud native environment that boring infrastructure stuff it still matters networking has matured a little bit there's the CNI initiative the cloud native I'm sorry container networking interface which is approaching one auto they're getting feedback here second one is storage most of the these solutions we really started talking about stateless environments state absolutely has to be a piece of this how do we fit you know you know data AI ml all these things data is critically critically important so that needs to be there and then the new technology that you know we spent a lot of time talking about at AWS that was serverless and there's actually like a half day track here at this show talking about how all of these solutions how serverless fits into them there was a question does serverless replace the because I don't need to think about it really a lot of the same tooling a lot of these usage will fit into those server lists frameworks so it's not in either/or but really more of an an environment but definitely something that we expect to hear more of this we've done we've got a phenomenal lineup I'm super excited did you know some of these builders that we've got you know big players we've got startups we've got authors we've got a good diverse audience coming on the cube so and you know I know near and dear to your heart you know lots of developer talk a lot of their over talks do this is a fun time the commoditization of kubernetes is actually a good thing in my mind I think there will be a lot of value to be created and this really is about multi cloud you mentioned all three of the major clouds and now Maurice are all a bob on stage just in China you got a lot more growth you're seeing that kubernetes really is an opportunity for Google and Microsoft and the rest of the community to run as fast as they can to create services so that customers can have a choice choice is the new black that's what's going on and multi-cloud not yet here but certainly on the horizon and if Google and Azure do not establish a mike-mike multi cloud environment Amazon could run away with it that's my that's my tag that's my visibility on it the bottom line is whoever can creates the value so what I'm gonna look for is the impact of the continued kubernetes kinda monetization and the new formations do the new relationships the existing players like red hat are going to continue to kick ass you're gonna start to see new players come in you can expect to see new partnerships because the stack is being developed very fast smooth announcements for me theists flew and deke container D Windows support coming with 1.9 kubernetes what's happening is they're running as fast as they can they're pedaling as fast as they can because if they do not they will be blown away that's the cube coverage here kicking off day one I'm John Purdue minimun exciting times here at cloud native and cube on back after this short break