>>Welcome back everyone to Supercloud 22. This is the Cube's live presentation streaming out virtually our inaugural event, kind of a pilot I'm John Furo of the cube with Dave ante. Got a great panel here to discuss the enablers and blockers question mark for superclouds. We got, we got kit Culbert, CTO of VMware basketball, Gor CEO platform nine, and has Pani who is the CEO of RA systems. We got a mix of the big leader, VMware and the upstart companies growing into the same space, all cloud native friends of the cube. Great to see you guys. Thanks for coming on. Thank >>You. >>Start. All right. So there's no debate cloud native is booming. We see that clearly Kubernetes became a unifying force. It's an ops layer kind of almost like a kind of a midline between dev and ops DevSecOps is happening at scale. What are the blockers and what are the enablers for super cloud? What do we need? Let's see what do get your take? >>Sure. So UN I spoke about this a little bit in, at New York summit, the big trend I'm seeing, and it's, it's a blocker that's being sort of taken care of by enterprises, which is, you know, until very recently, Kubernetes was effectively a project that NA would take on. They'd try things out, they'd go to the cloud, they'd spin things up. And then the next team would come and they'd do the same things. And there was no consistency. There was no ization, it's a mess, right? It's all over the place. Some things are moving fast. Some things are not going fast and this is not how enterprises do business, right? That's not how things work. Traditionally enterprises have had it organizations that create standards, right? So those it organizations now kind of are starting to think like a platform organization. So centrally come up with the right framework for all application teams to consume infrastructure, modern infrastructure. So I'm not using the word Kubernetes here because Kubernetes is an enabler. We are a Kubernetes company, obviously, but it's about modern applications, modern infrastructure. So stepping back and thinking about it as to how an enterprise will do this across the board is the right answer. And I'm seeing this happen in a pretty significant way across all the large enterprises I talked to. >>That's why you've had a great career. And we talked before you came on Opia you did a turnaround there, we, you even go back to the old days of the web web 1.0 and early software. You've seen the movie before. >>Yes. >>You know, complexity is not solved way more complexity. This is kind of the old enterprise way. And they don't want that. They've seen the benefits of self-service. They see architecture and standards as being an enabler. Where are we in here in the market? Is, are we positioned in your opinion for customers to get the value of a super cloud? >>Absolutely. So if you think about, first of all, I think the topic of cloud native developers and app developers picking containers and Kubernetes, that's a done deal, right? That has already happened. So every cloud native developer is already using these tools. Now, I think as has been discussed today in you, in the earlier sessions, is, are the operations and infrastructure catching up or they're lagging behind, right? As more and more developers are using multi-cloud technologies, enterprises are creating a choice, I think operations and what we also strongly believe that's actually part of the name of our company is, is a platform. The platform of which a company uses to transform itself to be cloud native is the big opportunity. I don't think it's a blocker, but it's a huge opportunity. And I think this is where, you know, as you can't stop developers from developing on different clouds, private, public, multi edge, that's gonna happen. Innovation is gonna continue. But then how does the infrastructure in the platform make it seamless? Right? And almost treat all these different clouds as a single pan super cloud platform. That's I think is the >>Opportunity. So we in a platform more than with other companies, or is there one unified platform called cloud native? We know customers been buying tools from security they're they got so many tools in, in their tools shed, so to speak. What is that platform? I mean, is it more unique, fragmentation? Is it unified? >>I mean, if you think about it, a couple of it's a combination of tools that are stitched together to reach a purpose, right? So if you think about, you know, APIs continued APIs that's been discussed earlier today, I think that's, that should be standardized. The other thing is always on monitoring because I think that's a very key aspect. Once you build it, then as the enterprises are using it, the always on monitoring becomes. So I think it's a combination of capabilities that are stitched together to enable the acceleration for companies to become cloud native. >>I, I have a thought on a blocker. None of you guys are gonna like it. Oh, maybe you can come. Maybe some of you guys probably won't but comment, but maybe John will. I think AWS is a blocker to Supercloud cuz they, they don't want those cross cloud service. It's like they, they, for years they wouldn't even say multicloud. The first time I heard it was in Boston three weeks ago, I actually heard it. So Hey, you see, >>You know, I'm gonna disagree with that. Okay. >>But, but okay, go ahead. All >>So we'll get their reaction. So my, we just heard from the last panel that the security should be leading the consortium. Yeah. Because they're, they're not the enemy they're actually, >>Maybe they should be >>Well back in the old web days, when standards were driving things, you had a common enemy, proprietary NASAs, proprietary networking stack. So the evil empire was at and T that's owned Unix. If you remember, they copyright that. >>So you think they're greasing the skids for, >>I think Supercloud, I think the hyperscalers could cuz they're driving the CapEx, they're providing the value. So in my opinion, Amazon and Azure, whoever does the right thing first can win every, maybe >>This is how Google could catch up >>It. It could be a, it could be a Slingshot move. It could, you know, boomerang, someone to the front of the line or extend. Amazon's already huge lead. So if I'm AWS, if I'm Adam Slosky and I'm talking to Andy Jassy, he says, how am I gonna differentiate myself? I'd say, I'm gonna come in and own multicloud. I'm gonna own Supercloud we are the Supercloud and you work with AWS's primitives in a way that makes services work. I would go for that. I'd be like, okay, show me more. What do you >>Think? I, I, I don't think think any one company is going to be a super cloud because I think yes, there is going to be a lot of workloads on public clouds, but there's a huge amount of workloads at the enterprise at the edge at the store. I think those will continue for various reasons, whether it's data, sovereignty regulations. So I think it's going to be a combination. Everybody's not gonna go to one, you know, cloud, it's going to be an amalgamation. >>Okay. But I I've argued that snowflake is a form of a super data cloud and a very specific use case, you know, Aviatrix is trying to be a network, you know, layer and you know, sneak in a security, let me on and on, on a lot of small you get, you get super cloud stove pipes, but, but nonetheless you're, you're still abstracting. I mean, we've this industry attractions, right? >>Well this, this concept I completely agree with, right? This idea that, so, so one of the, my is that right now enterprises buy 500 different technologies and they have to become PhDs in 500 different things. It's just never gonna happen skills issue, which is no way. Right. So what's gonna happen is all of these providers are gonna essentially become managed service providers. Cloud is in manifestation of that. Snowflake is a ation data breaks is a manifestation of that. Right? So in our general industry, there's gonna be a handful of platforms. Right. And they're gonna work across these clouds. Amazon may have one too. Right? Look, they, they, they, for the longest time sort of ignored OnPrem, but now they have something called SSA, which runs on Preem. Right. Why, why would they bother? Because, well, obviously there's a lot of money to be made in a data center as well. >>So I, my sense is they get it completely understand and appreciate that there's other things outside of Amazon. But in terms of what Bosco was talking about, my sense is, you know, these multiple platforms will come about. And to the point we were making earlier about standardization and I, I mean, is it gonna be one company or is it gonna be standards that everybody will else will adopt? There's a topic that the three of us have talked about before, which is this vCenter for Kubernetes. Right. And all due respect to kit. Right. My sense is that there there's gonna be multiple companies that are gonna start working towards a vCenter for Kubernetes. And it is right. I mean, that's how I've, I mean, I've been thinking about this before and a half years, including >>VMware. >>Yeah. And you know, and we, we should compare notes. Right. But what's gonna happen is there was a, there was a distinct advantage VMware had back in the day because ESX was their product. Right. And that was a standard right now. What's the ESX in the new it's sort of Kubernetes, right. I mean, it's on bare metal for the most part or whatever VMs. So that's a standard, that's got standardized APIs, the things around it are standardized APIs. So what is the unfair advantage that one company has other than execution? >>Nothing. Well also composability if you over rotate on Kubernetes, for example, and not take advantage of say C two, for instance. Totally, >>Totally. >>It's a mix and match. >>Yeah. But I think, I think if you get too focused on Kubernetes, it's a means to an end. Yeah. But at the end of the day, it it's a mean to end end. And I think all these tools, there's a lot of standardization happening that's gonna happen. Right. And no one vendor is gonna control that. Right. It's it's going to be, it's gonna continue. I think how you bring these together and orchestrate right. And manage the service. Because I think that if you think about the lack of skills to keep up with the operations and platforms is one of the largest inhibitors right now for enterprises to move as fast as they want to become cloud native. >>And you have the shiny new toy problem kit where people just go and grab it. You know, Keith Townsend has a, as a quote, he says, look, we essentially move at the speed of the CIO or else we're going too fast or too slow. So, so the, to, to the point about the new toy now I've got new skills. >>Yep. Well, so this has been a really good discussion. And I think so there's a couple of things, right. Going back to the, the paper that we wrote, right. How we have these different sort of layers of multi-cloud services or, or categories of multi-cloud services. And it's exactly to capture some of the ex different examples you just mentioned. And yeah, the challenge is that each of them by themselves are a little bit of an island today. Like you don't have that extra level of integration. And so what the platform teams typically do is try to add that extra glue to make the experience more seamless for the, the, the, you know, developers at that company. And so like, you know, for instance, things like identity. So the nice thing about going to a single public cloud is that there's one, usually one identity system for everything. And that's great. All the different services roles are, you know, are back all that. Stuff's all centralized, but you don't have that when you're going across many different multicloud services. So what does that look like? So I think there's some of these different crosscutting concerns that we need to look at how we standardize on as an industry. And that's, again, one of the things >>You felt that part. And I think, I think also the other key thing is yes, you can always say I'll put everything in one world, world garden and I'm done. Yeah. Okay. But that's not the reality because at some point you need, the flexibility and cost comes into play and flexibility to move comes into play. And I think that is a key factor. Yep. Right. >>Yeah. And so like, so then the question is, what degrees of freedom do you give yourself there? And I think that's the architectural question is how you, how do you design it? What sort of abstractions do you leverage? And I think that goes back to some of our discussion before, which is, do you directly go on top of a native cloud service or do you use a multi-cloud service? >>But I think it's a combination of, I don't think it's either or no, it's not, it's not an either or you have to have the ability to choose a public cloud or do it private. Yeah. At the same time you don't change. It's like a common dictionary, right. You're not gonna change every time the accent changes, you know? So that's, >>So here's a question for you guys. So what has to happen for super clouds, be existing assume that AWS and Azure and Google, aren't gonna sit still assume that maybe they normalize into some sort of swim lane or position that they have to rationalize. What, assuming they're not gonna sit still, what has to happen for super clouds to, to actually work >>Well? Well, I think, you know, really quick going back to the platform team point, I would say that the platform teams at various companies, and we got one at VMware two, they're creating a rudimentary form of a super cloud. Right. Cause they, you know, absolutely like if, if they are supporting multiple clouds, like all the things they're stitching together and all that work, that is a super cloud. The problem is that there's not really a standard approach or architecture or reusable things to enable that. I think that's really what's missing. >>Yeah. But I think the key here is standard us reusable. Because for example, we have customers who are in doesn't matter where they are, some of their loads are in public cloud. Some are in private, some are at the edge, but they're still using the same platform. Yeah. Right. So it is a standard open source based technology. So it is standard. There's no lock in for them from an infrastructure point of view. Yep. And it gives them the flexibility because certain apps, you wanna put it on the public cloud, certain apps, you do not, you need the, I mean, for example, some of the AI, I think earlier discussion that was going on about chips and AI and ML workloads. I mean, think about moving all of that to a public cloud, to, and I think a lot of machine learning and AI applications are going to happen where the data is getting created at the edge. Yeah. At the edge >>Public cloud. It's not gonna happen cloud. It's gonna be real time in, >>It's gonna the end time. And so therefore you have to decide based on your workload, what are you gonna move all the way to a public cloud? And what are you need to do to make business decisions at this spot where the data is created? >>That's a huge disruptor potentially to Supercloud. This is a whole new architecture that emerges at the edge with a whole new set of economics. I >>Think the edge is gonna be like massively disruptive. >>I think it's gonna think about, if you think about the edge, go beyond just the classic definition of edge. Think about branches in stores, retail stores. Yeah. Right. I mean, you cannot shut down retail store because you lost connectivity to the network or something you still have to serve your company >>Edge is a disruptive enabler. I think it's gonna change potentially change the position of the players in the business. Whoever embraces the edge. >>Yeah. Maybe going back to the question that you had asked before, which is what is, what is a framework for a super cloud? So you said something that is important, which is your team's burning one. Yeah. I met that team. Actually. They seem to be very sharp guys. >>They're they're mine. They're my are great. They're awesome. >>We got a deal going on here. Yeah. >>I tried. We have >>It. >>So this is the interesting part, right? So I will pause it that the super cloud of the future will be a company that owns zero servers and no network. >>Okay. >>That's gonna happen. Okay. So I just kind of it's >>Full point you >>Made before I made that point just about the public cloud, just so Mr. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that really interesting. Not >>We that, so I've thought about this a long time that in my opinion, and I've, I'm, I'm sure I've said this to you, John, that, you know, the one company that I've always believed has the best shot at doing this well is actually VMware because that's the one company that's, you know, that there's, there's no, you know, infrastructure back haul. Right. You know, that you're carrying, but, but in terms of thinking and getting there, you know, being, being a company that can do it is not the same as being the company who has done it. That's a, there's a distance, but >>I have to defend that now because hyperscalers are not gonna be able to super cloud. They're not now it's hype. See, agreed, great point. Public clouds will be part of the super cloud. Yeah, totally. But they will not, the hyperscalers are not building super clouds. Totally. They're blocking it. Right. Yeah. >>They're enabling it. >>We agree on >>No, they're enabling >>Because it's, it's not in there to their advantage. Right. Look, the, the snowflake example you gave is the pivotal example in this conversation. Yep. Right. Why does snowflake exist at all when Redshift exists and all these other things exist because they provide value that is beyond a single clouds purview. Right. And at that point, just step back from our platforms and what we sell. Forget about that for a minute. Right. It's it's about, look, I think, I think this, we are, this market is early, we're out early, right. 10 years from now, what will a company look like? That actually solves a superly problem they're gonna solve for yeah. Kubernetes, whatever. Right. But they're gonna solve for truly modern applications. >>Yeah. They're gonna refactor application that has new economics new value, right. >>At that point, this idea of edge and cloud, forget about it. Right. This is all distribution issues, right. It doesn't really matter. Is it retail or not? Yeah, absolutely. These are places, but, but the way, the right way to think about this is not about edge versus cloud, right? This is about an app. Sometimes it needs to run in one location and it's good enough. Sometimes it needs to run in 10,000 locations and, and it's a distribution issue. I've always believed there's this idea of edge versus cloud. This is BS, right? Because it, it is a cloud over a different size. Sure. But, but I'm making a slightly different point. Sure. Which is, it's a distribution problem. Right. If you step back and think about distribution, my app could run in Azure or AWS or in a retail store, in a branch or whatever. Right. >>And once that is done, the question is, how am I in, in making all this happen? There was a point made in the prior conversation, in the, in the session about a database kind of popping up in the place where I needed to run. Okay. Nobody does that today, by the way. Right. At least truly well right about that, sir, that will come. Right? Yeah. But when that comes, my application is a conglomerate of compute data. I don't know a, a service bus and network and all these things and they will all kind of pop together. That company does not exist >>Today. Well, we'll, we will be documenting which we have more time. We're gonna document it. We have to unfortunately stop this panel because it's awesome. We can go for another hour. Sure. Let's bring you guys back, but that's it. The super cloud of the future will look like something and we're gonna debate it. And speaking of snowflake, we have the co-founder here next to sit down with us to talk about what he thinks about this super cloud. He, he probably heard the comment, come back more coverage. This break with the co-founder of snowflake after the short break. >>Do thank you.

>> Live, from Orlando Florida, it's The Cube! Covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and The Cube's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and this is The Cube's coverage of Cisco Live 2018 in Orlando. We're in the middle of the Devnet Zone. Happen to have a panel of distinguished guests on the program. To my right, I have Dave Cope who's with Cisco. To his right, Bob Krentler with Google Cloud. And, down on the end, Lars Dannecker who's with SAP. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for having us. >> Nice to be here. >> Alright, so Dave, we're going to start. Cloud has been a big discussion, you're the senior director of cloud market development. >> Right. >> I think I know why Google's here. We had Diane Green up on the main stage with Chuck Robbins yesterday. But, before we get into it, what are you hearing from customers? When they think of cloud, what does that mean and connect that with Cisco? >> Yeah, I mean, you think about it, everything we hear about has something to do with cloud today. And, what's amazing is cloud is really only nine to ten years old. And we've seen it go through this, sort of, evolution from skepticism to debating about public and private to today, everyone realizing that it's all about hybrid cloud. Being able to logically place different workloads in different environments. And so, in almost everything we hear about, it has something to do with that notion of hybrid cloud. How do I secure those environments? How do I develop new applications? So, it's really everywhere. >> Alright, so Bob, you know, we've been watching Google since it entered the cloud. Of course, we had a team at the Kubernetes Show in Copenhagen just a month ago. We're excited to bring The Cube to your cloud show, Google Cloud Next this July in San Francisco. >> We are too. >> So, we think we know a little bit about what Google's doing in cloud, but from your with the Alliance's side of things, tell us a little bit about your role, what you're hearing from your customers and partners when it comes to cloud. >> Yeah, thanks again for the opportunity. So, yeah, Google Cloud is everything from the undersea cables that Google uses to move data around the world all the way up through G-Suite, alright. And, we develop this really cool hybrid cloud partnership with Cisco, kind of in response to some of the same problems that Google itself had to face. Largely, we had to be able to securely and scaleably deploy applications all over the world. So, customers are asking us, hey, how do I move to that world while not disrupting the infrastructure I've already purchased? So, how do I get the disruptive cloud technologies without disrupting myself? Right, and so what we developed with Cisco is this approach to meet you where you are as a developer or the customer that allows you to get the advantages of cloud while maintaining the infrastructure you already purchased. And, it's a great partnership with Cisco because of the security aspects that they bring, the sales and support that Cisco brings, as well as Google's technology in the cloud. >> Alright, so Lars you're the only one who doesn't have cloud in their title. So you're a big data architect. Look, we had a part of our team was here last week, the same building, for SAP Sapphire last week. Remember when we first started The Cube was the wave of mobile. But, absolutely, we hear SAP at every single one of the cloud events that we go to. So, from your role, how does cloud fit in to the story? >> So, I don't have cloud in my title, but big data in the title. And this is a great connection to the cloud. Because, what we are seeing with our customers is that they more an more move, let's say especially data that is regarded as big data, into the cloud. So, we have this combination of having enterprise data in your data center secure, but you still want to utilize what you have and capabilities in the cloud. Like, for example, machine learning with Google or cheap storage that you can utilize with other cloud vendors so that you can basically store huge amounts of data inside of a secure storage. >> Alright, great, I almost feel like we're going up the stack when we went through it. You know, Cisco, the infrastructure, Google certain pieces of it, SAP really at the application. Can you bring us back to Lars's, how the SAP piece connects to Cisco. >> Yeah, so as I said, what we are serving especially a need for is hybrid environments. Right, that you have your central system still in your data centers, but you want to connect to cloud environments and you want to bring, in principle, the cloud to your on-premise systems. That you have the best of both worlds. And this is also what SAP is basically about, to enable customers to do so and to bring products out that actually go in the direction of hybrid could and allow customers to go into more increasingly complex landscapes but still manage them in a, let's say, sophisticated way. >> Alright, Dave, I think back when I think of Cisco and partnerships, very rigorous programs out there. Spent many years looking at all the CVDs which is the Cisco Validated Designs. When we get into the cloud world, fill us in as to how that partnership expands and what's similar and what's different. >> If you look at the heritage of Cisco around networking and also infrastructure, but you're also seeing a huge evolution towards software. And so, a lot of what we're doing in the cloud has really software solutions whether it be the Cisco Container Platform that actually works with he Cisco Google Solution and also works with SAP's data hub. And we ensure, we still though have the rigor of things like CVDs, so this software can be proven to run on infrastructure environments that Cisco provides or provide customers the choice to run it on their own environment. And, of course, when it runs on Cisco infrastructure, it does have that CVD that gives customers and partners that confidence that it's already tested and that it works. >> Great, Bob, Kubernetes container, something we heard about on-stage, that the main thing that Google and Cisco are partnering on, walk us through a little bit, some of the announcements, what people might have missed. >> Yeah, so I think in general, our hybrid cloud solution at Google is very, very strong. I think what we're doing with Cisco is the most important missing piece. Which is, to be able to deliver and on-prem experience that customers are comfortable with, developers are comfortable with first and foremost, but also everyone behind the firewall essentially is very happy with. The security folks, the IT operations folks, I mentioned developers, and, of course, the line of business. So, yes, we're investing heavily with Cisco to bring Kubernetes and containers on-prem and we're really excited with the work we're doing with SAP in that space as well. We're also working with Cisco on an open-source initiative called Istio, essentially helps you do networking between microservices and containers. It's in a declarative way, right, really nice. And then, I think, overall, just the overall partnership with Cisco is very, very strong. We've been very happy with Cisco for a very long time. And, I think, customers are really starting to understand that this journey to the cloud is not one size fits all and certainly there's a lot of workstreams you have in flight. It's modernizing the existing application. That's one workstream. But, at the same time, you want to move to more cloud-native applications. So, we're really bring that, best of both worlds to the customer base. >> And, I think too, I mean we announced the relationship formally last October and it was really based on the fact that we had a shared vision that, while everybody wants to use the cloud, they didn't always have to think they had to refactor their applications or lift and shift and there's definitely use cases to do that. But, also, we had this vision that they wanted to be able to adopt the cloud at their own pace. Maybe give traditional applications a facelift with powerful services from people like Google or maybe they wanted to use cool new development tools on the cloud like on Google Cloud and still have access to legacy systems. And so, it really was a marriage of the best of both companies. Sort of, Cisco's traditional enterprise discipline, sales and support, along with developer, cool technology, sort of the father of Kubernetes and also a very powerful cloud services from Google. >> Yeah, I would just say, like right out of the gate, to make it really tangible, this is the way to do CICD. For hybrid, period. And, if you're a developer today, learning, that's, kind of, what you know, you use Spinnaker and you deploy, that's what you're going to be able to do here. And I just really think that that's a really strong message from Google, like, we're very, very big into open source. And that resonates with developers and I think it really resonates the buyers of Cisco gear. I mean, developers are expensive, you want to free them up to do, abstract things away. And that's what we're doing, abstract, abstract, abstract, until you can get more velocity out of all of your investments, whether that's people, infrastructure, or your own time. >> Just one last thought on that is that while we're talking a lot about cloud native, working with traditional systems, etc., applications need to feed on data and so that why, it's really this perfect marriage with the data hub. Because now, whether you're aggregating data on-prem or want to reach out to, like, Google Cloud to get aggregated data, it really is the best of all worlds. >> Yeah, well, when we look at cloud, cloud really is much more of an operational model than it is a destination and it's the data and the applications that ultimately is the life blood of our business, that's what is important for our business. So, yeah, Lars, would love your commentary on what you're hearing from the developer side, from customers that they're moving here. >> So, just short, the data hub is basically a tool to manage those complex landscapes and get a holistic data landscape view on the entire data of your company. So, it's a bridge between enterprise data and big data if you want. And, I think a little bit more than one year back, we were searching for a platform that allows us to deploy the data hub on-premise and in the cloud and that's what we found with Kubernetes which is an awesome abstraction platform for us. Because we don't need to necessarily care now what is the native deployment, we just need to make sure that our application runs on Kubernetes. So, that's why the data hub is running natively on Google Cloud platform and especially Google Kubernetes engine. And it is running the same way on-premise. And that's enabling us to provide, let's say a tool that can manage those hybrid landscapes, the data landscape, in such a way. And that's why, for us, it's a perfect thing. On the one hand side, you have this stable platform with Google Kubernetes engine in the cloud, and, then, partner with Cisco to bring basically the Cisco container platform on-premise. So, for us, now it means just we have on all the different aspects, we have a way to deploy our software and then bring customers value in the cloud, on-premise and in hybrid environments. >> But Dave, I would love to hear your commentary on really how do customers get support for all of this. Cause, one of the challenges always was, well, you know, I build my temple from my application and then, you know, I need to test it out and it took a long time, you know. The old time, it used to be, "oh yeah, 12, 18 months, "no problem, throw a million bucks on it, it's great." Today, it's "I need to move faster." We're talking about developers. If it's not up and running and proven within a few months, probably you failed and you better move on or we're gonna look to some other group to do that. How has this dynamic changed? Walk us through the partnership, support, how do customers, from the application all the way down be able to turn and get from partners like yourselves. >> Yeah, I think that, so look, the customers today want it all, right. They need to maintain investments, extend investments that they have in traditional systems but they want to take advantage of these new, really cool technologies like microservices, like, sort of, data hub, data aggregation and they don't want somebody knocking on their door and saying, "hey, I'll sell you anything "as long as you want to buy this." So, I think Cisco, along with its partners has evolved to the point to be able to align customer initiatives with solutions and it can never be just be from one vendor. And so, Cisco is working very hard to partner with people like Google and SAP to truly meet the needs of extending those traditional systems but also accelerating their application development, using these new technologies and getting them all to work together. So it really is a new way to approach the market. >> Just to second this Dave, so for us it was like, when we're talking on-premise, we don't have to launch like in the cloud. In the cloud, we have Kubernetes as a managed service. So, so far, we had to say when we go on-premise with the data hub that the customer needs to provide us a Kubernetes cluster. And this is a major challenge because the adoption of Kubernetes on the customer's side is, it's a new technology, right? It's not that high. >> It's not trivial to do. >> Exactly, it's not trivial to do, to operate and things like that. And now, we're providing a solution, a hybrid cloud solution that is a turn-key solution so you can plug it in to your rack, you push the power button, everything is up an running, and you can use it. And that's a major step even in the direction of adoption of Kubernetes and a major step in the adoption of hybrid cloud solutions. >> And I would add, I mean our engineering teams are working like side-by-side. So, essentially, you're are mutual customer here and, from a provider point of view, like, our engineers are working directly with Cisco's engineers to make sure that GKE is in-sync with Cisco's deployment. And so, as a customer, you can have confidence that those things are going to work. And you mentioned support earlier, Cisco's tack will actually support the front end of this and we'll support them on the back end. They work directly with our engineering team already. >> And they really kind of go hand in hand with your point is that anytime you get truly a valuable solution today, I think it spans multiple companies and we really owe it to our customers to integrate those things together. But, at the same time, they don't want to have to go necessarily to all three of our companies independently to get support or maybe ten other startups that might have components in it. And so, as Cisco rolls this out, we're working with these companies to provide that single point of technical support. >> Yeah, I mean I went to a session with Chuck Robbins last night for dinner and he said basically what all Cisco customers know is like Cisco generally gets things right, but when they do mess up, they will get in there and make it right immediately. And, I think that's what customers really, really love about Cisco and that's what we love about the partnership. >> And it's super important in the enterprise market, right? Especially important for enterprises. I mean, just imagine an enterprise running their critical systems on this platform and you need really someone who is there when there's a problem, right. And that's why this is a great partnership with all three parties. >> Absolutely. >> Last question, Bob, maybe we've got your event coming up in a couple of months, what should we be looking for from these partnerships going forward? >> Yeah, so, speaking broadly about Google Cloud partnerships. Certainly we do a lot with SAP, we do a lot with Cisco. I think Cisco already has signed on to be the top sponsor, one of the top sponsors of Google Cloud Next. Thanks Dave. We'll be doing much more with Cisco. I think we're also gonna do some stuff with developers. You know, we're in the Devnet community here. Cisco Devnet has like 500,000 developers. We totally love that and we're working on a couple things. So, stay tuned for that. And I think from our partnership, we're looking forward to showing some really great customer wins and having customers who are really successful. And, like Diane and Chuck were talking about, really bringing, kind of this cloud disruption. Right, disrupts in the business world but keep your IT as an advantage, right. Make it so that your IT can help you win more as a business. And we're gonna try to deliver more of that with these guys. >> Well, Dave, Bob, and Lars, thank you so much for coming to talk about the partnership. Cube will be at Google Cloud Next in July and the future is so bright for cloud, we better wear shades. So, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks so much for watching The Cube.