>> Good afternoon, fellow cloud nerds and welcome back to AWS Reinvent 2022. We are live here from fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. My name is Savannah Peterson, joined by Lisa Martin. So excited to be here Lisa, it's my first reinvent. >> Is it really? >> Yeah. >> I think it's only like my fourth or fifth. >> Only your fourth or fifth. >> Only. >> You're such a pro here. >> There's some serious veterans here in attendance that have been to all 11. >> I love that. >> Yeah. Wow, go them. I know, maybe we'll be at that level sooner. >> One day we will. >> Are you enjoying the show so far? >> Absolutely, it is. I cannot believe how many people are here. We've had 70,000 and we're only seeing what's at the foundation Expo Hall, not at the other hotel. So, I can only imagine. >> I mean, there's a world outside of this. >> Yes, and there's sunlight. There's actual sunlight outside of this room. >> Nobel idea. Well, Lisa, I'm very excited to be sitting here next to you and to welcome our fabulous guests, from TEKsystems, we have Brandon and Srini. Thank you so much for being here. How is the show going for you gentlemen so far? >> It's great. Lot of new insights and the customers are going to love what AWS is releasing in this reinvent. >> There is such a community here, and I love that vibe. It's similar to what we had at Cloud Native con in Detroit. So much collaboration going on. I assume most folks know a lot about TEKsystems who are watching, but just in case they don't, Brandon, give us the pitch. >> You bet. So full stack IT solutions firm, been in business for over 40 years, 80,000 global employees, really specializing in digital transformation, enterprise modernization services. We have partners in One Strategy, which is an an acquisition we made, but a well known premier partner in the Amazon partner ecosystem, as well as One North Interactive, who is our boutique brand, creative and digital strategy firm. So together, we really feel like we can bring full end-to-end solutions for digital and modernization initiatives. >> So, I saw some notes where TEKsystems are saying organizations need experienced AWS partners that are not afraid doing the dirty work of digital transformation, who really can advise and execute. Brandon, talk to us about how TEKsystems and AWS are working together to help customers on that journey which is nebulous of digital transformation. >> So, our real hallmark is the ability to scale. We partner with AWS in a lot of different ways. In fact, we just signed our strategic collaboration agreement. So, we're in the one percenter group in the whole partner network. >> Savanna: That's a pretty casual flex there. >> Not bad. >> I love that, top 1%, that no wonder you're wearing that partner pin so proud today. (speaking indistinctly) >> But we're working all the way on the advisory and working with their pro serve organization and then transforming that into large scale mass migration services, a lot of data modernization that Srini is an absolute expert in. I'm sure he can add some context too, but it's been a great partnership for many years now. >> In the keynote, Adam spent almost 52 minutes on data, right? So, it emphasizes how organizations are ready to take data to cloud and actually make meaningful insights and help their own customers come out of it by making meaningful decisions. So, we are glad to be part of this entire ecosystem. >> I love that you quantified how many minutes. >> I know. >> Talked about it, that was impressive. There's a little bit of data driven thinking going on here. >> I think so. >> Yeah. >> Well, we can't be at an event like this without talking about data for copious amounts of time, 52 minutes, has just used this morning. >> Right, absolutely. >> But every company these days has to be a data company. There's no choice to be successful, to thrive, to survive. I mean, even to thrive and grow, if it's a grocery store or your local gas station or what? You name it, that company has to be a data company. But the challenge of the data volume, the explosion in data is huge for organizations to really try to figure out and sift through what they have, where is all of it? How do we make sense of it? How do we act on it and get insights? That's a big challenge. How is TEKsystems helping customers tackle that challenge? >> Yeah, that's a great question because that's the whole fun of handling data. You need to ensure its meaning is first understood. So, we are not just dumping data into a storage place, but rather assign a meaningful context. In today's announcement, again, the data zone was unveiled to give meaning to data. And I think those are key concrete steps that we take to our customers as well with some good blueprints, methodical ways of approaching data and ultimately gaining business insights. >> And maybe I'll add just something real quick to that. The theme we're seeing and hearing a lot about is data monetization. So, technology companies have figured it out and used techniques to personalize things and get you ads, probably that you don't want half the time. But now all industries are really looking to do that. Looking at ways to open new revenue channels, looking at ways to drive a better customer experience, a better employee experience. We've got a ton of examples of that, Big Oil and Gas leveraging like well and machine data, coming in to be more efficient when they're pumping and moving commodities around. We work a lot in the medium entertainment space and so obviously, getting targeted ads to consumers during the right periods of TV or movies or et cetera. Especially with the advert on Netflix and all your streaming videos. So, it's been really interesting but we really see the future in leveraging data as one of your biggest corporate assets. >> Brilliant. >> So, I'm just curious on the ad thing, just real quick and I'll let you go, Lisa. So, do you still fall victim to falling for the advertising even though you know it's been strategically put there for you to consume in that moment? >> Most of the time. >> I mean, I think we all do. We're all, (indistinct), you're behind the curtain so to speak. >> The Amazon Truck shows up every day at my house, which is great, right? >> Hello again >> Same. >> But I think the power of it is you are giving the customer what they're looking for. >> That's it. >> And you know... >> Exactly. We have that expectation, we want it. >> 100%. >> We know that. >> Agree. >> We don't need to buy it. But technology has made it so easy to transact. That's like when developers started going to the cloud years ago, it was just, it was a swipe. It was so simple. Brandon, talk about the changes in cloud and cloud migration that TEKsystems has seen, particularly in the last couple of years as every company was rushing to go digital because they had to. >> So several years ago, we kind of pushed away that cloud first mentality to the side and we use more of a cloud smart kind of fashion, right? Does everything need to go to the cloud? No. Do applications, data, need to go to the cloud in a way that's modern and takes advantages of what the cloud can provide and all the new services that are being released this week and ongoing. So, the other thing we're seeing is initiatives that have traditionally been in the CTO, CIO organization aren't necessarily all that successful because we're seeing a complete misalignment between business goals and IT achievements, outcomes, et cetera. You can automate things, you can move it to the cloud, but if you didn't solve a core business problem or challenge, what'd you really do? >> Yeah, just to add on that, it's all about putting data and people together. And then how we can actually ensure the workforce is equally brought up to speed on these new technologies. That has been something that we have seen tremendous improvement in the last 24 months where customers are ready to take up new challenges and the end users are ready to learn something new and not just stick onto that status quo mindset. >> Where do you guys factor in to bringing in AWS in the customer's cloud journeys? What is that partnership like? >> We always first look for where the customer is in their cloud journey path and make sure we advise them with the right next steps. And AWS having its services across the spectrum makes it even easier for us to look at what business problem they're solving and then align it according to the process and technology so that at the end of the day, we want end user adoption. We don't want to build a fancy new gadget that no one uses. >> Just because you built it doesn't mean they'll come. And I think that's the classic engineering marketing dilemma as well as balance to healthy tension. I would say between both. You mentioned Srini, you mentioned workforce just a second ago. What sort of trends are you seeing in workforce development? >> Generally speaking, there are a lot of services now that can quantify your code for errors and then make sure that the code that you're pushing into production is well tested. So what we are trying to make sure is a healthy mix of trying to solve a business problem and asking the right questions. Like today, even in the keynote, it was all about how QuickSight, for example, has additional features now that tells why something happened. And that's the kind of mindset we want our end users to adopt. Not just restricting themselves to a reactive analytics, but rather ask the question why, why did it happen? Why did my sales go down? And I think those technologies and mindset shift is happening across the workforce. >> From a workforce development standpoint, we're seeing there's not enough workforce and the core skills of data, DevOps, standard cloud type work. So, we're actually an ATP advanced training partner, one of the few within the AWS network. So, we've developed programs like our Rising Talent Program that are allowing us to bring the workforce up to the skills that are necessary in this new world. So, it's a more build versus buy strategy because we're on talents real, though it may start to wane a little bit as we change the macroeconomic outlook in 2023, but it's still there. And we still believe that building those workforce and investing in your people is the right thing to do. >> It is, and I think there's a strong alignment there with AWS and their focus on that as well. I wanted to ask you, Brandon. >> Brandon: Absolutely. >> One of the things, so our boss, John Furrier, the co CEO of theCUBE, talked with Adam Selipsky just a week or maybe 10 days ago. He always gets an exclusive interview with the CEO of AWS before reinvent, and one of the things that Adam shared with him is that customers, CEOs and CIOs are not coming to Adam, to this head of AWS to talk about technology, they want to talk about transformation. He's talking about... >> The topic this year. >> Moving away from amorphous topic of digital transformation to business transformation. Are you seeing the same thing in your customer? >> 100%, and if you're not starting at the business level, these initiatives are going to fail. We see it all the time. Again, it's about that misalignment and there's no good answer to that. But digital, I think is amorphous to some degree. We play a lot with the One North partnership that I mentioned earlier, really focusing on that strategy element because consumer dollars are shrinking via inflation, via what we're heading into, and we have to create the best experience possible. We have to create an omnichannel experience to get our products or services to market. And if we're not looking at those as our core goals and we're looking at them as IT or technology challenges, we're not looking in the right place. >> Well, and businesses aren't going to be successful if they're looking at it in those siloed organizations. Data has to be democratizing and we've spent same data democratization for so long, but really, we're seeing that it has to be moving out into the lines of business because another thing Adam shared with John Furrier is that he sees and I'm curious what your thoughts are on this, the title of data analysts going away because everybody in different functions and different lines of business within an organization are going to have to be data analysts to some degree, to use data whether it's marketing, ops, sales, finance, are you seeing the same? >> That is true. I mean, at this point, we are all in the connected world, right? Every data point is connected in some form or shape to another data point. >> Savanna: There are many data points, just sitting here, yeah. >> Absolutely, so I think if you are strategizing, data needs to be right in the center of it. And then your business problems need to be addressed with reliable data. >> No, I mean, advertising, supply chain, marketing, they're all interconnected now, and we're looking at ways to bring a lot of that siloed data into one place so we can make use to it. It goes back to that monetization element of our data. >> That's a lot about context and situational awareness. We want what we want, when we want it, even before we knew we needed it then. I think I said that right. But you know, it's always more faster, quicker and then scaling things up. You see a lot of different customers across verticals, you have an absolutely massive team. Give us a sneak peek into 2023. What does the future hold? >> 2023 is again, to today's keynote, I'm bringing it back because it was a keynote filled with vision and limitless possibilities. And that's what we see. Right now, our customers, they are no longer scared to go and take the plunge into the cloud. And as Brandon said, it's all about being smart about those decisions. So, we are very excited that together with the partnership that we recently acquired and the services and the depth, along with the horizontal domain expertise, we can actually help customers make meaningful message out of their data points. And that keeps us really excited for next year. >> Love that, Brandon, what about you? >> I think the obvious one is DevOps and a focus on optimization, financially, security, et cetera, just for the changing times. The other one is, I still think that digital is going to continue to be a big push in 2023, namely making sure that experience is at its best, whether that's employee and combating the war on talent, keeping your people or opening new revenue streams, enhancing existing revenue streams. You got to keep working on that. >> We got to keep the people happy with the machines and the systems that we are building as we all know. But it's very nice, it's been a lot of human-centric focus and a lot of customer obsession here at the show. We know it's a big thing for you all, for Amazon, for pretty much everyone who sat here. Hopefully it is in general. Hopefully there's nobody who doesn't care about their community, we're not talking to them, if that's the case, we have a new challenge on theCUBE for the show, this year as we kind of prepped you for and can call it a bumper sticker, you can call it a 30 second sizzle reel. But this is sort of your Instagram moment, your TikTok, your thought of leadership highlight. What's the most important story coming out of the show? Srini, you've been quoting the keynotes very well, so, I'm going to you first on this one. >> I think overall, it's all about owning the change. In our TEKsystems culture, it's all about striving for excellence through serving others and owning the change. And so it makes me very excited that when we get that kind of keynote resonating the same message that we invite culturally, that's a big win-win for all the companies. >> It's all about the shared vision. A lot of people with similar vision in this room right now, in this room, like it's a room, it's a massive expo center, just to be clear, I'm sure everyone can see in the background. Brandon >> I would say partnership, continuing to enhance our strategic partnership with AWS, continuing to be our customers' partners in transformation. And bringing those two things together here has been a predominance of my time this week. And we'll continue throughout the week, but we're in it together with our customers and with AWS and looking forward to the future. >> Yeah, that's a beautiful note to end on there. Brandon, Srini, thank you both so much for being here with us. Fantastic to learn from your insights and to continue to emphasize on this theme of collaboration. We look forward to the next conversation with you. Thank all of you for tuning in wherever you happen to be hanging out and watching this fabulous live stream or the replay. We are here at AWS Reinvent 2022 in wonderful sunny Las Vegas, Nevada with Lisa Martin. My name is Savannah Peterson, we are theCUBE, the leading source for high tech coverage.

>> 10, nine, eight, (clears throat) four, three. >> Good afternoon, fellow cloud nerds and welcome back to AWS Reinvent 2022. We are live here from fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. My name is Savannah Peterson, joined by Lisa Martin. So excited to be here Lisa, it's my first reinvent. >> Is it really? >> Yeah. >> I think it's only like my fourth or fifth. >> Only your fourth or fifth. >> Only. >> You're such a pro here. >> There's some serious veterans here in attendance that have been to all 11. >> I love that. >> Yeah. Wow, go them. I know, maybe we'll be at that level sooner. >> One day we will. >> Are you enjoying the show so far? >> Absolutely, it is. I cannot believe how many people are here. We've had 70,000 and we're only seeing what's at the foundation Expo Hall, not at the other hotel. So, I can only imagine. >> I mean, there's a world outside of this. >> Yes, and there's sunlight. There's actual sunlight outside of this room. >> Nobel idea. Well, Lisa, I'm very excited to be sitting here next to you and to welcome our fabulous guests, from TEKsystems, we have Brandon and Srini. Thank you so much for being here. How is the show going for you gentlemen so far? >> It's great. Lot of new insights and the customers are going to love what AWS is releasing in this reinvent. >> There is such a community here, and I love that vibe. It's similar to what we had at Cloud Native con in Detroit. So much collaboration going on. I assume most folks know a lot about TEKsystems who are watching, but just in case they don't, Brandon, give us the pitch. >> You bet. So full stack IT solutions firm, been in business for over 40 years, 80,000 global employees, really specializing in digital transformation, enterprise modernization services. We have partners in One Strategy, which is an an acquisition we made, but a well known premier partner in the Amazon partner ecosystem, as well as One North Interactive, who is our boutique brand, creative and digital strategy firm. So together, we really feel like we can bring full end-to-end solutions for digital and modernization initiatives. >> So, I saw some notes where TEKsystems are saying organizations need experienced AWS partners that are not afraid doing the dirty work of digital transformation, who really can advise and execute. Brandon, talk to us about how TEKsystems and AWS are working together to help customers on that journey which is nebulous of digital transformation. >> So, our real hallmark is the ability to scale. We partner with AWS in a lot of different ways. In fact, we just signed our strategic collaboration agreement. So, we're in the one percenter group in the whole partner network. >> Savanna: That's a pretty casual flex there. >> Not bad. >> I love that, top 1%, that no wonder you're wearing that partner pin so proud today. (speaking indistinctly) >> But we're working all the way on the advisory and working with their pro serve organization and then transforming that into large scale mass migration services, a lot of data modernization that Srini is an absolute expert in. I'm sure he can add some context too, but it's been a great partnership for many years now. >> In the keynote, Adam spent almost 52 minutes on data, right? So, it emphasizes how organizations are ready to take data to cloud and actually make meaningful insights and help their own customers come out of it by making meaningful decisions. So, we are glad to be part of this entire ecosystem. >> I love that you quantified how many minutes. >> I know. >> Talked about it, that was impressive. There's a little bit of data driven thinking going on here. >> I think so. >> Yeah. >> Well, we can't be at an event like this without talking about data for copious amounts of time, 52 minutes, has just used this morning. >> Right, absolutely. >> But every company these days has to be a data company. There's no choice to be successful, to thrive, to survive. I mean, even to thrive and grow, if it's a grocery store or your local gas station or what? You name it, that company has to be a data company. But the challenge of the data volume, the explosion in data is huge for organizations to really try to figure out and sift through what they have, where is all of it? How do we make sense of it? How do we act on it and get insights? That's a big challenge. How is TEKsystems helping customers tackle that challenge? >> Yeah, that's a great question because that's the whole fun of handling data. You need to ensure its meaning is first understood. So, we are not just dumping data into a storage place, but rather assign a meaningful context. In today's announcement, again, the data zone was unveiled to give meaning to data. And I think those are key concrete steps that we take to our customers as well with some good blueprints, methodical ways of approaching data and ultimately gaining business insights. >> And maybe I'll add just something real quick to that. The theme we're seeing and hearing a lot about is data monetization. So, technology companies have figured it out and used techniques to personalize things and get you ads, probably that you don't want half the time. But now all industries are really looking to do that. Looking at ways to open new revenue channels, looking at ways to drive a better customer experience, a better employee experience. We've got a ton of examples of that, Big Oil and Gas leveraging like well and machine data, coming in to be more efficient when they're pumping and moving commodities around. We work a lot in the medium entertainment space and so obviously, getting targeted ads to consumers during the right periods of TV or movies or et cetera. Especially with the advert on Netflix and all your streaming videos. So, it's been really interesting but we really see the future in leveraging data as one of your biggest corporate assets. >> Brilliant. >> So, I'm just curious on the ad thing, just real quick and I'll let you go, Lisa. So, do you still fall victim to falling for the advertising even though you know it's been strategically put there for you to consume in that moment? >> Most of the time. >> I mean, I think we all do. We're all, (indistinct), you're behind the curtain so to speak. >> The Amazon Truck shows up every day at my house, which is great, right? >> Hello again >> Same. >> But I think the power of it is you are giving the customer what they're looking for. >> That's it. >> And you know... >> Exactly. We have that expectation, we want it. >> 100%. >> We know that. >> Agree. >> We don't need to buy it. But technology has made it so easy to transact. That's like when developers started going to the cloud years ago, it was just, it was a swipe. It was so simple. Brandon, talk about the changes in cloud and cloud migration that TEKsystems has seen, particularly in the last couple of years as every company was rushing to go digital because they had to. >> So several years ago, we kind of pushed away that cloud first mentality to the side and we use more of a cloud smart kind of fashion, right? Does everything need to go to the cloud? No. Do applications, data, need to go to the cloud in a way that's modern and takes advantages of what the cloud can provide and all the new services that are being released this week and ongoing. So, the other thing we're seeing is initiatives that have traditionally been in the CTO, CIO organization aren't necessarily all that successful because we're seeing a complete misalignment between business goals and IT achievements, outcomes, et cetera. You can automate things, you can move it to the cloud, but if you didn't solve a core business problem or challenge, what'd you really do? >> Yeah, just to add on that, it's all about putting data and people together. And then how we can actually ensure the workforce is equally brought up to speed on these new technologies. That has been something that we have seen tremendous improvement in the last 24 months where customers are ready to take up new challenges and the end users are ready to learn something new and not just stick onto that status quo mindset. >> Where do you guys factor in to bringing in AWS in the customer's cloud journeys? What is that partnership like? >> We always first look for where the customer is in their cloud journey path and make sure we advise them with the right next steps. And AWS having its services across the spectrum makes it even easier for us to look at what business problem they're solving and then align it according to the process and technology so that at the end of the day, we want end user adoption. We don't want to build a fancy new gadget that no one uses. >> Just because you built it doesn't mean they'll come. And I think that's the classic engineering marketing dilemma as well as balance to healthy tension. I would say between both. You mentioned Srini, you mentioned workforce just a second ago. What sort of trends are you seeing in workforce development? >> Generally speaking, there are a lot of services now that can quantify your code for errors and then make sure that the code that you're pushing into production is well tested. So what we are trying to make sure is a healthy mix of trying to solve a business problem and asking the right questions. Like today, even in the keynote, it was all about how QuickSight, for example, has additional features now that tells why something happened. And that's the kind of mindset we want our end users to adopt. Not just restricting themselves to a reactive analytics, but rather ask the question why, why did it happen? Why did my sales go down? And I think those technologies and mindset shift is happening across the workforce. >> From a workforce development standpoint, we're seeing there's not enough workforce and the core skills of data, DevOps, standard cloud type work. So, we're actually an ATP advanced training partner, one of the few within the AWS network. So, we've developed programs like our Rising Talent Program that are allowing us to bring the workforce up to the skills that are necessary in this new world. So, it's a more build versus buy strategy because we're on talents real, though it may start to wane a little bit as we change the macroeconomic outlook in 2023, but it's still there. And we still believe that building those workforce and investing in your people is the right thing to do. >> It is, and I think there's a strong alignment there with AWS and their focus on that as well. I wanted to ask you, Brandon. >> Brandon: Absolutely. >> One of the things, so our boss, John Furrier, the co CEO of theCUBE, talked with Adam Selipsky just a week or maybe 10 days ago. He always gets an exclusive interview with the CEO of AWS before reinvent, and one of the things that Adam shared with him is that customers, CEOs and CIOs are not coming to Adam, to this head of AWS to talk about technology, they want to talk about transformation. He's talking about... >> The topic this year. >> Moving away from amorphous topic of digital transformation to business transformation. Are you seeing the same thing in your customer? >> 100%, and if you're not starting at the business level, these initiatives are going to fail. We see it all the time. Again, it's about that misalignment and there's no good answer to that. But digital, I think is amorphous to some degree. We play a lot with the One North partnership that I mentioned earlier, really focusing on that strategy element because consumer dollars are shrinking via inflation, via what we're heading into, and we have to create the best experience possible. We have to create an omnichannel experience to get our products or services to market. And if we're not looking at those as our core goals and we're looking at them as IT or technology challenges, we're not looking in the right place. >> Well, and businesses aren't going to be successful if they're looking at it in those siloed organizations. Data has to be democratizing and we've spent same data democratization for so long, but really, we're seeing that it has to be moving out into the lines of business because another thing Adam shared with John Furrier is that he sees and I'm curious what your thoughts are on this, the title of data analysts going away because everybody in different functions and different lines of business within an organization are going to have to be data analysts to some degree, to use data whether it's marketing, ops, sales, finance, are you seeing the same? >> That is true. I mean, at this point, we are all in the connected world, right? Every data point is connected in some form or shape to another data point. >> Savanna: There are many data points, just sitting here, yeah. >> Absolutely, so I think if you are strategizing, data needs to be right in the center of it. And then your business problems need to be addressed with reliable data. >> No, I mean, advertising, supply chain, marketing, they're all interconnected now, and we're looking at ways to bring a lot of that siloed data into one place so we can make use to it. It goes back to that monetization element of our data. >> That's a lot about context and situational awareness. We want what we want, when we want it, even before we knew we needed it then. I think I said that right. But you know, it's always more faster, quicker and then scaling things up. You see a lot of different customers across verticals, you have an absolutely massive team. Give us a sneak peek into 2023. What does the future hold? >> 2023 is again, to today's keynote, I'm bringing it back because it was a keynote filled with vision and limitless possibilities. And that's what we see. Right now, our customers, they are no longer scared to go and take the plunge into the cloud. And as Brandon said, it's all about being smart about those decisions. So, we are very excited that together with the partnership that we recently acquired and the services and the depth, along with the horizontal domain expertise, we can actually help customers make meaningful message out of their data points. And that keeps us really excited for next year. >> Love that, Brandon, what about you? >> I think the obvious one is DevOps and a focus on optimization, financially, security, et cetera, just for the changing times. The other one is, I still think that digital is going to continue to be a big push in 2023, namely making sure that experience is at its best, whether that's employee and combating the war on talent, keeping your people or opening new revenue streams, enhancing existing revenue streams. You got to keep working on that. >> We got to keep the people happy with the machines and the systems that we are building as we all know. But it's very nice, it's been a lot of human-centric focus and a lot of customer obsession here at the show. We know it's a big thing for you all, for Amazon, for pretty much everyone who sat here. Hopefully it is in general. Hopefully there's nobody who doesn't care about their community, we're not talking to them, if that's the case, we have a new challenge on theCUBE for the show, this year as we kind of prepped you for and can call it a bumper sticker, you can call it a 30 second sizzle reel. But this is sort of your Instagram moment, your TikTok, your thought of leadership highlight. What's the most important story coming out of the show? Srini, you've been quoting the keynotes very well, so, I'm going to you first on this one. >> I think overall, it's all about owning the change. In our TEKsystems culture, it's all about striving for excellence through serving others and owning the change. And so it makes me very excited that when we get that kind of keynote resonating the same message that we invite culturally, that's a big win-win for all the companies. >> It's all about the shared vision. A lot of people with similar vision in this room right now, in this room, like it's a room, it's a massive expo center, just to be clear, I'm sure everyone can see in the background. Brandon >> I would say partnership, continuing to enhance our strategic partnership with AWS, continuing to be our customers' partners in transformation. And bringing those two things together here has been a predominance of my time this week. And we'll continue throughout the week, but we're in it together with our customers and with AWS and looking forward to the future. >> Yeah, that's a beautiful note to end on there. Brandon, Srini, thank you both so much for being here with us. Fantastic to learn from your insights and to continue to emphasize on this theme of collaboration. We look forward to the next conversation with you. Thank all of you for tuning in wherever you happen to be hanging out and watching this fabulous live stream or the replay. We are here at AWS Reinvent 2022 in wonderful sunny Las Vegas, Nevada with Lisa Martin. My name is Savannah Peterson, we are theCUBE, the leading source for high tech coverage.

>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with all leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE conversation. >> Hi, everybody, this is Dave Vellante, and welcome to this episode of Startup Insights. Andrew Lau is here with me, he's the co founder and CEO of a relatively new company called Jellyfish. They focus on engineering management, which is kind of a new space that we want to present to you, Andrew, great to see you, thanks for coming on. >> Hey, Dave, thanks for having me on. >> So when I see co founder and a title I always ask why did you start a company? What's your Why? >> So the three co founders myself, Dave Gourley, and Phil Braden,we actually met geez more than 20 years ago, at a company called Endeca. We had the chance to kind of bring the proverbial band back together, just 'cause rare is the chance to work with great people. And for us, Jellyfish really was coming out of our own experiences. All three of us grew our careers running big engineering teams big product teams. We realized how hard it was to really lead those teams and connect them to the business at scale. And that's the problem we just got together to solve. >> Yeah, so interesting right, and Endeca, another East Coast company, great exit, brought by Oracle. And of course, when you say in Endeca, I always think okay, Jellyfish, you guys in the search business, but you're not in engineering management. What is engineering management? And, you know, how does it relate to some of your past experiences? >> Great question, well, so engineering management engineering management sector or management platform, as we talked about, really comes down to how we can facilitate the tools to make leading big teams easier, right, we've realized that as you get to larger teams, teams bigger than 50, bigger than 100 engineers, it's really hard to understand what the team is doing really hard to make sure that they're working their best in making sure they're pointed in the right direction. And even Furthermore, how to connect that to the business and how to make sure the business successful after the team dies. And as for us, is really around making tools and processes available that they really help accelerate the act of leading big teams. >> So when you think about it, I mean, it's really the problem you're solving is visibility, kind of what's going on in engineering and providing metrics is that a sort of a fair, high level? >> I think it's a perfect high level statement. When we actually got together and talked about the problem space we all saw as we lead these big teams. We quickly drew an analogy to you know, when I started my career in the late 90s, there was a time before Salesforce and CRM were pervasive, right And so really quickly, we drew a quick and easy analogy that said, like, hey, why isn't there a Salesforce for engineering? That is, why isn't it that same leadership and executive visibility into how a team is progressing and to make sure it's aligned with the business? >> Well, when you think about it, right, Salesforce, what 1999 we had the first Salesforce clouding before the real cloud hit, you know, we certainly have marketing clouds now capital Management clouds, customer service management clouds, why not an engineering cloud right? >> I think it's probably you follow that map there, I think we've seen the last 20 years, that clouds actually kind of progressed from sales to marketing to success to HR, as you pointed out, I think the last bastion in organizations is the engineering team right? It just so happens right now that engineering teams probably are the most strategic, if not the most expensive team in most companies roster. And so really, providing visibility is really necessary at this time. >> So I don't run engineering it's Silicon Angle by my co-CEO and partner John furrier does. But I'm always like asking him like, hey, what are you guys working on? What are the deliverables? What am I going to get it and when? how we do it on quality, and so forth and so I think just scanning your website, reading some of your blogs, these are some of the things that you really focus on. You wrote a five part series, I think, I don't know if I'm dying to see part five but four parts are out. I want to dig into some of those, I think they're in, I think you called it, you know, five things that you should present to the board. >> Yeah, yeah Like, you know, a great question around like, there's a series were four or five in two, I'm talking about what are five slides that heads of engineering should be showing to their boards or even their executive management teams? You know, early on in the process, I'm aware, before we actually started the company, we did a ton of research, talking with leaders at scale, trying to ask them, like, how do you manage your team? How do you connect into the business? And out of those conversations fell, you know, asking folks like, well, what slides do you show your board meeting? And and the answer was, there wasn't ubiquitous answer. People were looking for answers and so we really synthesized a number of different leaders that we thought were really successful in this world, and really put together this series to talk about like, what are the metrics that people should be measuring? >> Well, let's talk more about some of those metrics so you know, I mentioned so what am I going to get? When what are some of the other key things that people are focused on? I mean, obviously, quality, where I'm spending my money. But what are some of the ones that you're seeing, aligning with business and really driving business outcomes? >> So okay, so part one I think you talked about right which is, you know, what are you getting? What got shipped out the door? what's coming down the pipe? I think job one for a leader of engineering and Product is to talk about what's coming out, right in the same way that sales job is actually hit a revenue number and talk about the pipeline coming down the way it's an engineers job to actually ship new product that you can sell your users can engage with so that's definitely slide one. Slide two, you already alluded to here two is about quality, right? I think if you're shipping product that actually can't hold quality in the eyes of your customers, it won't last very long. So I think it's really important to show command of quality and actually show metrics that actually measure quality over time in the lens of your customer. Slide three, I think we're really talking about alignment. Making sure that your team is spending your dollars, time and effort in the right way that actually aligns with what the business wants to right? So examples might be, if you're a company that splits time between enterprise and SMB efforts, well, making sure that the features the team is working on actually aligned to the strategy of the company, right? And you can't do that if you don't measure that. And then slide four is really around capturing broad level productivity. But is the team healthy moving forward? And then the last of which is really the preview coming up for the next segment here is going to be about really around the team in hiring right. How is the team holding up? How's the morale? And how's the actual hiring pipeline looking and ramp? All right in terms of new employees right, it's really the people side of the engineering leadership. >> Cool, thanks for teasing that a little bit. I'm glad to hear it's not just about productivity, 'cause there are tools out there that can measure developer productivity, but seems like you're taking a broader approach and building a platform to really take a more end to end sort of lifecycle view. >> Yeah, I think we really look about, think about it as look productive is really important. I think it's necessary but not sufficient. You can talk about a boat, you can roll faster. But if you're rolling the boat in the wrong direction, who cares? So it's as important to make sure that alignments in place and actually making sure that the rest of communication and context is really in place to make sure that team succeeds and the lens of the business. >> Andrew I'm interested in the market, I mean, my sense is engineering management is sort of new, very new, actually, although we talked about productivity being sort of one of the metrics and there are tools out there, but how do you look at this market? Is there a big whale that you're targeting? Or is this more of a Greenfield up? >> I think really, it's a Greenfield opportunity. I think if you were to you know, people don't wake up right now with a quadrant they look at or a wave that they're actually measuring on at the moment. It doesn't say isn't coming. I mean, if you look at this as a baseball game, we're probably getting one and defining market right now. And you can tell because if you look across the vendor space, I think there's a lot of variety of different solutions in these places. And so, from my view, you know, there's room right now just to innovate and describe what this platform really is going to be right and that's what the next few years are going to look like and defining this market. >> Did the unknown nature of the market? Was that was that a challenge in terms of your race? >> I actually think that's actually the opportunity. I think both as founders and and our investors, I think really, whenever you have these Greenfield opportunities, it helps you create big opportunities, I either grow you know, this better than anyone, I think, define the markets are very clear in the box you're trying to fill in, it's a race to do that. You know, this space here is a space ripe for innovation. It needs innovation, both in product and process and how you going to market and the story will be told five years from now. >> So I want to talk about your go to market but before we do, so one of the things you got to do when you're doing your investor pitches, you got to figure out the total available market your served market. I mean, how did you do that? What can you share with us about the TAM? >> I mean, okay, there's the quantitative answer, right, you could pick apart all the companies in the world count all the software engineers and I can tell you, it's going to be a big number, right You can also map it to other large software engineering companies like Atlassian, or even Microsoft and talk about the markets there. But I think, you know, look, the world has moved far for long with that like, what's the word every company is a software company now? I think it's not a necessary part of the pitch anymore. I think everyone intuits the TAM is large, because even air conditioning companies now have hundreds of software engineers, It's no longer this niche thing like it was 20 years ago. I think literally, you know, every company in the planet could be a potential customer of Jellyfish in the future. >> You know I feel like some sometimes if you can actually size the TAM, it's maybe a negative in your race because if the TAM is just so obviously large then investors say hey, okay, check the markets huge, and that's what they want to see. >> And I think part of it too, is like we've seen the last five years, not just has you know, every company become a software company. This also means the engineering departments and how they recruit have been really scrutinized. Everybody needs more wants more engineers, they're hard to get and expensive. I think everyone's realizing like, because of both of those things, everyone cares a lot more, It's no longer this, you know, small number of people have low cost. It's actually just an expensive investment, a strategic one. And I want to make sure everyone wants to make sure it's pointing in the right direction now. >> So there's a lot of people in our community, young people get, you know, either just graduated from college or been out for, you know, 567 years working at a company and feel like they want to do their own thing. And they're always interested in how you did it, how you got started, how you ascended the company where you know how you seated it, I think, I think you guys started in 2017, I think you've raised $12 million. But take us back to the beginning, how did you and your co founders get launched, you know, how did you see the company and bootstrap it? So I mean, I, I think for us, like we're lucky to have actually been through all three of us through a number of different startups. So I think this is for us coming with a lot of awareness of actually how to build the company, we had the chance, you know, in at the talent 2016 to actually get the proverbial band back together. We hadn't worked together in probably shy of 15 years. But I think we really respected the chance to do so. And so we got together and said, like, hey, let's see if there's an opportunity for us to do something together. And so that was a real journey, you know, we pushed through a number of different concepts, we largely fell into this one simply because of our backgrounds, right, it is an area that we actually bring some personal expertise to and our networks bring it that way, but also some passion around wanting to actually solve it. So I think it's probably at the end of 16 that we actually said, like, hey, this is a space we might be interested in. We actually spent I think the the first couple months of 17 just interviewing every VPE CTO CEO, exactly we could find I think we probably talked to north of 65 technology leaders in that time period. Largely just actually asked him like, hey, what do you think about this space, this idea? What do you do instead? In fact, tell me not to start the startup, I don't want to invest x years of my life to find out that there's a better solution out there. The part that was I think amazing was that everyone was interviews, everybody kind of stopped at the end of it and leaned in and said, "hey, can you do me a favor? Can you write up the, whatever your notes on this and just send me the actual answer? So at that moment, we knew that, you know, we didn't have the solution yet. But we knew there's pain out there an opportunity to actually solve something, we weren't the only ones that actually identified that. And so that became the mission, which is how do we make people in this seat? How do we make their lives better, right? And, you know, sliding forward that you know, concurrent with actually, the early checks coming in, we actually call those same folks back and said, hey, can we work with you to build the product? So from a philosophical standpoint, we really believe in actually building with our customers, right, and so, from the first moment, you know, pre product, you know, pre code, we sat down with those same people and said, hey, let's work with you. let's do things by hand, let's do with your data, just to make sure that we understand what we're building a use case that you care about. >> Okay, so you co-created really with the customers as you actually started generating revenue, kind of a sell design build model, is that right, or? >> Yeah, I want to think of a much more of a, as an alpha product development, right, I think, you know, our philosophy on that early on, let's say June of 17. It was, look, we'll do your manual, we'll do your board decks for you, we'll do your management team slides, we'll do your metrics will do your capitalization, right. We'll do whatever you need on a manual basis, as long as we can work with you and your data. And you know, because we always had an eye on building the platform there. And so behind the scenes, of course, we're automating all of this. But that helps make sure that the use cases that we're building for were things they actually needed, we're going to use. >> Did you find you had to leave a lot on the cutting room floor? In other words, a lot of times when you take that approach, and you kind of try to generate maybe early revenue from customers, you sometimes get sick, especially in the enterprise, you get sucked into specials and some of your custom work that might not scale across the the other organizations. You guys obviously experienced, was that something you guys put a lot of thought into and how did you manage that? >> Look, I don't think it's magic, I think we were aware. To your point we've done this a few times, so at least we knew the pitfalls, like yeah, so some stuff has been left on the cutting for in the sense that we probably, you know, pushed harder on areas that we push less on today. I don't think anything was abandoned. I think part of it is that, you know, there's two sides of it, right, which is, if you're able to think about where you want to go, which is building a platform, you can always take any engagement and trade it off and say like, hey, is this something we want to build? Does this make sense for actually leading us towards the long platform story? you don't have to do every opportunity that comes along. So I think you need to thread the needle and I should take advantage of working with customers, but also making sure you have an eye for where you're going the North star so you can pick and choose which project you want to work on or which customers you know you want to work with because end of the day products are really the byproduct of who you work for who you serve as who you actually build for. And so we're very conscious along the way to choose the right individuals, the right partners that helps shape the product over time. >> And you guys had some some engineering chops and your own Andy Jassy says there's no compression algorithm, the algorithm for experience and then maybe that's an Amazon thing, but I hear him all the time. So you know, they had that to your advantage. And so, okay, so i got your website I see you've got customers so you know, you're well into your journey here. You've got product market fit, I presume you've got you know, your SaaS model your pricing down, but where are you in your sort of journey and you're phasing? >> I mean, geez, those words all change quite a bit these days, I would actually say product market fit is never a binary thing, that the constant journey, right so I would say that we're always working on that because the markets are always moving. And we have a market that is changing month on month and a quarter on quarter, right, so I never want to declare victory on that. Because that's going to get left behind. I think in terms of our journey, like we have on the team right now is 27 people normally based in downtown Boston, We're all working from home at the moment. You know, we have, you know, a sales team in place now of I think six, seven folks now. So we're in market actually pushing this forward. But, you know, I think for us, we're out there really kind of scaling the story right now. I think we've had some tremendous customers we had the chance to work with, we have a product that we're really proud of. I think we just need to put more units out there and more customers to actually make them more successful. So I think anything we're really in the act of repeating every function of the organization right now. It's really kind of build it up. So okay, so I mean, normally when you do a startup, you go to your friends, first the people in your core circles, you get them to that's I'm sure you did something similar. You're obviously beyond that phase of six to seven salespeople, you're starting to scale up, you've probably got a good sense as to that types of salespeople that you're looking for. And then now you're trying to figure out okay, it sounds like how much do I spend on marketing? How does that affect sales productivity? And then how do we scale that whole thing up and then go hyper scale and build a moat and all that other good stuff. >> Yeah, I think you're exactly right, I mean, I think we're at the point now where we can actually start making trade offs, right, like, you know, like, you know, do we actually add a additional salesperson? Do we actually invest in marketing programs? Do we actually build out more strategic product? I think you know, we are still the point we have to make trade offs, right, but the business is mature enough that we can make trade offs right, that makes sense. >> So let's talk about customers, I mean, maybe you could give us some examples, some of your, your favorite examples how you've impacted their business. >> Well, I think if you look at actually our website, I think there's a few case studies up there, I think there's building them up there, there's like salsify books at toast. I think all three of those actually really talk about different kinds of use cases around how we actually affect them. So One of which will we're really helping them actually on alignment, right and making sure that their team is working on the most important things, And, and in those situations, when you're working on the most important thing, you're really kind of essentially getting opportunity cost of engineers and making sure that they're driving towards things that you really will help the business, right so if you're, if you're looking at it that way, you're finding engineers that can help you progress faster, but you're building more product faster, because you can focus the energy where the team is going. And so that's case one, I think another case is really is around, making sure around quantitative management visibility, right, making sure that the team is visible in the metrics and in their output to make sure that they're performing their best, right, and that might mean everything from automated performance management to just making sure that people aren't left behind and making sure that they're the team is actually healthy in their function. And then the last of which is really around capitalization, which is a financial process and really automating that, that's out of the house which is, you know, capitalization requires a traditionally, engineering leaders have to manually fill out spreadsheets for finance, and for the accounting team to make sure that they're actually able to account for where the team effort is going, and then it can actually capitalize it correctly when we treat it from a financial perspective. And so we automate that process that just makes everyone's lives easier. So you're no longer manually data on a week by week basis. >> So I may have obviously seen some of your product and some of the outputs but your your SaaS based model, you know, cloud pricing, all that sort of modern, you know, approaches and business practices. And but what else can you tell us about sort of your, pricing model and how you're going to market? >> Yeah, so I think, you know, we are a SaaS hosted application. We also have, you know, open source agents that have been deployed on premise to actually, you know, whether to work with complex network architectures or deal specific redaction concerns, so we got to operate an on premise environments in that way. You mentioned our pricing is SaaS base we broadly price annually, you know, from broad strokes perspective, it's relative to the the size of the engineering team. Very simply like a, an engineering team of 300 people is a lot more complicated than engineering team of 30 people, right, put it that way. And the pricing reflects that. And then to your question around, like, what else I can talk about? Well, you know, I made the analogy earlier around like they were trying differentiating what Salesforce did for sales. What I mean by that really is providing that executive and leadership visibility to that department, right, if you're looking at the innovation that Salesforce brought in the early aughts, it was really getting stuff out of notebooks into the cloud through manual data entry, and in contemporary sales, I think there's less of that these days, it's all through plugins and voice recognition and stuff. And in the same way, in the engineering side, we're not in the business of actually asking for new data entry. In fact, we connect with systems engineers already using You know, the JIRA is the GitHub to get labs, all they know that their testing tools and their CI tools and then all of those things really we emit what we call engineering signals. So the engineers don't do anything differently. We collect that data, we connect to those systems, we clean that data, normalize and contextualize it with respect to business data. And that's actually where the insight actually comes from. Because if you just look at the raw engineering data by itself, there's not a lot you can do with it, right you know, I joked with you in our kind of earlier conversation, which is, you might look at, you know, your 300 get or request your engineers are produced thing. Like, it doesn't really help you figure out if you're going to do great this quarter, right? And so for us, we really bring that in contextualize it and make sure that you understand it in a business context, to talk about like, hey, is the team accelerating and being successful in the ways that we need the business needs them to do. >> Yeah, you're so right I get a stream of those every day every week and I open them up and I go, okay, I don't know. There's people that work in sort of last sort of topic areas is I want to understand where you want to take this thing. I think I'm writing that you've raised about $12 million, you obviously got a big market seems like you've got a great product. I mean, if I'm you, I'm throwing gasoline on the fire, I want to run the table, you got to create the market . So that's sometimes kind of expensive. Where do you want to take this thing? >> I mean, look, this may sound hubris bowl, but our ambitions are to build a large multi billion dollar standalone software company. And and I think, you know, part of the reason why I say it that way is that I think it's important to have a North star, right. It's important to have a North star to make sure that we're all headed in the right direction. We get the right team members, actually, as we grow the team, and then we actually capitalize it accordingly. I think if you look at the analogy, we started out earlier around sales and marketing. Every time someone's actually cracked that leadership visibility, for each function, there has been a multi billion dollar opportunity there, if not, a multi, you know multi multi billion dollar opportunity out there. So I don't think it's a overly anim facies that where we're going. But I think there's a lot of work to get from here to there. >> Yeah, I mean, I didn't ask you directly about the competition, I did ask you if there's a big whale, is there a big entity, you know, like a database, guys, is they want to target oracle, for example. And I looked around and I, I really didn't see it. It really does look like a Greenfield opportunity, which is absolutely enormous. I mean, I think I'm getting that right. >> Yeah, I think you're right on, and look at I think there are going to be more small players actually entering the market. Like I think whenever we look at new markets, and as they actually kind of build momentum, that always happens. And so of course, I you know, in that sense, I want competition to be here. But right now, I really don't focus on that. I think as for us, It's really about our product in the hands of our customers, how we make them successful. And then let's rinse and rinse and repeat that over and over again to more and more companies. >> Yeah, you don't have to compete you guys have to create. Andrew, great to have you on thanks so much for sharing your insights on your company, good luck with Jellyfish and come back anytime you know, in the future would love to track your progress and see how you're doing. >> Right Dave, thank you so much for having me here and I hope you, your family or team are staying healthy and all this and I look forward to next time. okay, and thank you for watching everybody this is Dave Vellante for theCUBE and startup insights. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCUBE covering Citrix Synergy Atlanta 2019. Brought to you by Citrix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend. Day two of theCUBE's coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019 from Atlanta, Georgia. One of the cool things that Citrix does is recognize some of their most outstanding customers and we're very pleased to welcome one of their Innovation Award nominees, from Schroders, Paul Baird, Global Head of Communications IT. Paul, welcome to theCUBE. >> Oh, thank you very much. Thank you for having me today. >> So, you and I were talking off-camera and I was mentioning this to Tim Minahan yesterday, their CMO, that the way that Citrix is doing their Innovation Awards program is a bit like Britain's Got Talent, American Idol, where they narrow down finalists and then the public gets to vote and they've created a very cool video that describes a little bit about just the tip of the iceberg about what you guys are doing. But tell our audience a little bit about Schroders and what it is that you're doing with Citrix to re-transform the employee experience. >> Okay, so Schroders are a financial services company. We're based in London although we've got offices in 27 countries globally. We deal with asset and wealth management, and we've been around for over 200 years. Over the past couple of years, we've started collapsing our London office footprint from multiple, multiple little small disparate offices into two large buildings within London. What we tried to do was really put technology on the forefront of everything that we did for that, whether or not it was IOT right the way through to our end user desktop experience and just creating the best digital experience for our users that we possibly could. >> Excellent. >> Hey, can you talk to us about how Citrix has helped empower that move to the future of work there? >> So, Citrix's VDI solution was key to everything. It was the fundamental building block where our desktop came into play and then we layered the top of our applications and our access to data and one of the fantastic things as well was our solution is called S3, which is sort of just any type, any place and from any device. And it really empowered us to be able to fulfill that. It wasn't an empty messenger statement. It really was what we believed, so people can access their desktop from iPads, from their computers they have in the house. Whether or not they're in one of our offices globally, you can access Windows desktop from your iPhone, although my eyesight tends not to be good enough for that, but it really did form that real linchpin of what we were doing. >> So, you mentioned that Schroders has been around for a couple of hundred years, so when I hear that, I think, wow, there's a lot of history. There's a lot of culture. Cultural transformation is hard to do, but it's also a catalyst. It's really essential for a business like Schroders to digitally transform. As consumers, we have these devices, multiple devices, I think yesterday, they mentioned in some stats that were really kind of staggering, that in the next few years, there will be 65 billion connected devices and each person's going to have around eight connected devices, so we have this experience with devices, we have our expectations, but you also have a culture that's pretty steeped in history at Schroders. How has Citrix been an enabler of evolving that culture as the workforce now is so distributed, but also so sort of demanding of these, let's have the same experience that I have in my personal life that I can have at work. >> I think one of the, the big pushes that we tried to do was to enable collaboration for absolutely everyone in the company. Citrix again helped us with that because we have an actual desk environment. We have flexible working and fundamentally, what we needed to do is not impinge on anyone's ability to work and to collaborate. Everyone needed to be able to access their data, their applications, their services, from wherever they were in order to properly digitally collaborate with each and every one of their colleagues. Otherwise, we'd just have done our users a disservice. It was a big change. We took the decision as well to roll out our actual desktop environment to our existing users in our old offices prior to moving in, which proved to be an absolute godsend because moving from an office for some people who'd been there for years and years, moving into new offices is a sea change. It's a difference to people's working environment, and what we endeavored to do was to give them the new technology solutions that we came up with prior to the move so that all that actually changed was the desk and the furniture and the view-- >> Smart. >> Was a lot better, but ultimately, they'd been used to the technology. We had ironed out an awful lot of problems, here and there just with the scale of deployment and things, and these people were in and working and ready to roll within minutes of actually walking in the new building. >> So, talk to us about the competitive landscape. 200 years of wealth management, you have established clients, but you're always looking to expand and get into, let's call it new money. Talk to us about the customer experience, how Citrix has enabled you to become hopefully a little bit more agile in meeting the demands of wealth management clients. They have high expectations. They have traditions they like to follow. I'm a little old school. I still like to go physically into the bank, see a person whereas my wife, you know what, if she can just do all her banking and wealth management mobile, she doesn't have to see a person at all. So, talk about kind of that range of clients that you serve. >> So, we have a variety of clients. We have a variety of clients globally. Really, with this solution that we put forward, being able to meet those client demands almost instantly in terms of accessing their data, accessing CRM tools, accessing whatever systems we needed to do, was essential with that. The issue, not the issue, the real advantage that Citrix gave us in terms of the solution as well, was that we were able to fulfill those client's needs from wherever our dealers were, wherever our fund managers were, wherever our sales force were, if that answers the question. >> Yeah, and you know, in any industry, as consumers of anything, we have choice, right? Whether it's your ISP or a retailer. If you don't, if you're not having a good experience as a consumer of that product or service, you can easily turn. I'm going to find somewhere else that's going to meet that need and I imagine that was part of the concern for Schroders was that yes, we may have, as he said, some very longstanding clients, but if we're not able to meet a range of their expectations, then they have choice to go to one of your competitors. Talk to us about how enabling the employee experience that you have done, employees can access their desktops seamlessly from switching devices if they're going from their desk into a conference room, their desktop essentially virtually follows them. How has that been an enabler of retaining clients and maybe even attracting new clients? >> I think having the ability to collaborate with our clients is key to everything that we do. Having to have that almost seamless workflow of I can sit at a desk, I can come and sit beside you at your desk, I can log in to my machine, I can show you what I'm working on, I can have an ad hoc meeting. We can pool together because fundamentally, our biggest strength as a company is our people, and actually pushing that forward and making those people work better and in a more collaborative way together, whether it's in a meeting room with clients on a video conference call and people still having access to their desktop without all the messy meetings that everyone's been in where people are trying to find cables and leads and presentations, right down to extending the solution across so that people on their mobile devices could still access that data and service, the needs of the customer and ultimately, our staff working better together gave us a better user experience and a better customer experience. >> So essentially, were you able to create an experience for the employees that was transparent to your customers? >> Yes, I believe so. I don't think our customers noticed anything, but benefit coming through. I think the new head office building has over 112 meeting rooms and they're booked morning, noon, and night and people are on client calls. People are interacting with our customers, interacting with other companies that we've acquired. They're accessing other customers' data, and they're able to fulfill all the needs of the job. >> So Paul, talk to us about the legacy of combining legacy IT, traditional services with, and systems with this new frontward-facing capabilities. You have mobile apps, but then as a 200-year-old company, I'm sure you guys have some legacy technology sitting around. Citrix has, and other companies such as SAP, have talked about what comes after digital transformation, so we've given employees mobile devices. We're giving them new applications, ways to access accounts on the go. The next level is the employee experience, the customer experience. From yesterday's keynote, when they talked about automation, the ability to use Citrix to automate workflows and make the marketer's job easier, what do you see potential advantages in your industry to being able to automate things that eat up that 1/5 of your work week? What do you think some of the innovations that will come out of your business as a result? >> That's a very good question. I think yesterday's keynote was fascinating, definitely resonated, the idea of everyone having almost archeological IT, and just layers and layers and everyone has slightly older systems. Everyone has systems that are essential to their business. I think moving forward, having some essential tier that people access so that all their day-to-day repetitive tasks just become simpler and it just becomes a whole list of text boxes to run through is an absolute godsend. As a manager myself, I spend a significant amount of time going through HR approvals and going through purchase requests and doing this and that. That constant jump from system to system to system, anything that can actually be done to improve that flow is beneficial to all of us. >> They talked about their aim yesterday, Citrix did, about being able to streamline this employee experience with intelligence. That they're aiming to give back users one whole day a week which Keith and I were saying, that's two months a year, absolutely I would sign up for that. They also talked yesterday about historically, enterprise software being designed for power users, which only makes up 1% of the user base. How have, you mentioned, I like how you talked about that, in terms of the cultural shift, not just to a brand new facility in London, but we started them on this new software powered by Citrix first, so that by the time they got to this new location, from a change perspective, it was a lot more manageable, but as it relates to software being designed now by Citrix for the general users, what was adoption like across Schroders once you rolled out this new solution? Was it something that just went, oh, okay, I get it. >> So the adoption was very carefully managed. We're big believers in having user change champions. They were consulted all the way through it. We did a whole piece of work to determine which departments went first and move forward with them. We tried to move at pace because as we talked about before, one of the big benefits that we had with the solution was actually being able to deploy the solution to our users before we move into the new office, so that we could actually make this a more seamless transition for something that's a big thing for a lot of people, you know, but moving geography is you know, people don't like change, you know. And being able to do that and roll that across with a constant feedback loop that we were getting from our users and those change champions was really essential to the success. >> So talking about change champions, you're in the business of IT communications. Getting out kind of the message for change, making sure that users understand the changes that are taking place whether systems, environment, et cetera and that they adopt it, so getting early champions on board. One of the challenges I found when I managed IT communications is that getting people to read past the first line of a email, saying that there's change coming, people don't like change and you send a email about change, they're not going to read it. So, what have been some of the effective ways that you've been able to communicate and prepare people for change? >> It's really important because I agree entirely. That whole email delivery of information really doesn't work. >> Right. >> And people put it just down a spam and you know, they-- >> Like, they could put corporate email in the spam folder. They put IT communications there. >> And what we did is we did everything from poster campaigns, there was leaflet campaigns, and it wasn't just global technology. We worked with all areas of the program who were pushing forward to get our staff in our new head office, so there was road shows in our old canteen. They could come in for a whole week at one point and log in to the new technology and we had exact mock ups of what the new desks were going to look like and that had really, really positive benefits. We had videos behind our Genius bars that we had set up so that people, almost wherever they went, were actually seeing what that new technology generally was going to look like for them as well, and that really gave us a lot of benefits as well because people became more engaged, they understood where we were going, it wasn't just, we're going to send an email and you're going to come into work on a Monday morning and everything's changed in front of me and what just happened, you know, so. >> Very methodical, very strategic rollout, what you did, which is really impressive, but it also sounds like from your perspective as the head of Global IT Communications, that you were liaising with the other heads of other functions. This was a business imperative. This wasn't just being driven by IT. That's what it sounds like, is that correct? >> Yeah, and we have become very, very collaborative. My role in terms of communications, I actually run networks and communications. It's not traditional communications and marketing, but everyone pooled together. Everyone worked together, both from right the way across global technology. We tried to remove as many silos as we found you know, and we really did succeed in that. And we really engaged with our user communities as well, which I think was pivotal to the success as well. And even I'm sure you've seen in the video that Citrix did with us, it's not just technology people that are involved in our video. We've got our global head of human resources, who is a huge, big champion of the solution that we've actually deployed and I think that really sets us apart as well. >> I think so too. I think what you guys are doing for the employee experience is very differentiating, the strategic approach within the organization, not just to get the right decision makers together, but also how you've really thoughtfully rolled this out for users, for adoption, is pretty unique. So we congratulate Schroders on being an Innovation Award nominee. You can vote, I think it's just go to citrix.com or the Synergy website. You can vote and we wish you the best of luck as the winner is revealed tomorrow. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks for your time, Paul. We appreciate it. >> No worries at all, thank you. >> For Keith Townsend, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, live from Citrix Synergy 2019. Thanks for watching. (techno beat)

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering Informatica World 2019. Brought to you by Informatica. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Informatica World 2019. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We are joined by Sanjeev Vhora. He is the group technology officer and global data business lead at Accenture. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks. Thanks for having me here. >> We're hearing so much about AI lead data intelligence, and the other buzz word of course, that we hear so much of, is digital transformation. I'd love to hear your thoughts about data first approach to digital transformation. First of all, what does that mean? >> I think what we are seeing is that, if you... I think we do see that we are getting into a post digital era. Which means that in the last seven years, most bigger companies and businesses have invested in building a better customer engagement. What they did was they created properties, like portals, mobile applications, you name it, to just get better sense and touch their customers better than they were touching earlier. That was a whole investment that went in the last six, seven years. What they feel is that what's next. You do that, but does it really translate into revenue growth? Is it really translating into the experience in a sustained basis? Not one time, but on sustained basis. Every time when you touch a customer, they feel the same passion towards you. They feel that they are still engaged with you, and they want to come again to you for whatever your offering, your services or your goods. They felt that that's not actually happening. The reason why it's not happening is because the underlying data is not complete or comprehensive enough, or not accurate enough, for giving that experience. That realization is seeping up right now. They are asking for ensuring instead of looking at a use-case base approach of solving one problem for one business or one geography, is there a way to do it enterprise-wide? That a (mumbles). Point which is coming out is that they looked at that technology process that's old tradition model of looking at new businesses. Technology people processes and those three. But now they're looking to fourth element, which is foundation-call data. That's what we are calling data-first approach. You have to look at data as well, while looking at reforming your business services, and offers to the client. >> I want to touch on something you said earlier, and that is to make the customer feel passionate about interacting with you. I mean that's such a loaded, and almost romantic word to describe a customer interacting with a company. Why is it that companies are trying invoke passion, and insight passion, inspire passion? >> I think it's a way to differentiate yourself from the competition, so I think that's what in my view the businesses are doing right. Let me give an example to you to make it real, it may address your first question as well to some extent. We are working with a cruise company, one of the largest cruise companies North America based. They obviously are trying to make sure the experience of the customer is much better than had earlier. Which can resinate to a much higher revenue for them obviously, and inquisition of more customers. The friends of friends, friends of customers if you may. They had done a great job creating that digital property, and the transformation of the program. But they also realize that they are now, they realize that they don't really have a sense of who's the customer? Now that's a good question, after all this investment you still don't know who's the customer. That's where they came and talked about can I get a single view of my customer? The reason why they don't have a single view of customer is because they actually don't own all their individual customers. They only own their own individual customers, but they also work with their partners. As you can see Experian and others actually own that same customer. So they are not able to have a sense of that customer, their habits, and their behavior in one single place. They can really provide their accommodations, saying... well guest, if you're going to Italy we can probably help you this summer. >> So yes, exactly that's what I want to know; Is what, if you do have a sense of who your customer is, and that is everything from their basic demographic information, to what they do on Sunday afternoon with their families. What kinds of things then can the cruise company do to make that customer more passionate toward the cruise. >> They can do a lot, but I can tell you another example of another cruise company. Was looking at customer files and they did a fantastic job, and I'm assuming that you may have also experienced yourself. This customer they had covered the single view of customer obviously, but what they did was use a lot of IoT or sensors in their ships. They actually transformed the entire ship. Like the entire ship has been transformed to understand the customer movement, and give that flawless and seamless (mumbles) to customers. Which can help them have a pretty great on their vessels if you may. That's what they, from the day that you order the tickets for this service... From that time onward they actually send you a (mumbles). That tracks you as a person moving into the ship, and they can offer much more seamless services, and also reduces a friction of the operations staff. The staff is not in a hurry and hassle. They're actually able to understand who's actually the customer, what they want, and they are able to provide that service. So that's how they're using that feature of knowing the customer, to better serve them; being a better engagement with them. Plus also eases the operational friction in their own staff. >> So the customer wins because they feel the company gets them, and knows them, and understands them; and then the company wins because they're able to make more money off that customer, because they already have predicted what that customer wants and needs at every moment. >> And they can do more with less. They can do more with less staff, less resources. >> So one of that we are also talking a lot about here on theCUBE it's the tenth anniversary of theCUBE. So we've had a lot of these conversations, is how data is becoming a C-suite discussion, and there's this growing need to appoint a chief data officer to drive data strategy. What do you see as the evolving role of the CDO, at your company; and then also at the companies that you work with? >> We see this is a very significant step in the future. There are a lot of predictions from (mumbles) An analyst saying that there will be more and more roles, like three-fourth of the companies would have a CDO (mumbles). But I think our point is likely, you know, to augment that point I think what we believe is that, we do believe in respective of who actually owns (mumbles) That a chief data officer or a CI, or a CO. They definitely need a person at the C-suite, not below C-suite. To have that discussion at the table, and show that their data strategy is attached to their business strategy, and that's not true in many cases right now. So the data is (mumbles) which is two levels down in (mumbles), and that's why it's not getting that attention as a corporate asset as a (mumbles) asset from where you can actually extract value that you're looking at right. That's what we see; so we see a very broadened role, we see who so is in that role, we think there are a few qualities that person needs to have. The first one the person has to have a seat at the table. The second, is that person should be able to understand business quite well. (mumbles) He or she should have an insider business innovation, and if the person is tech savy it's good to have, but it's not must to have. We do believe that person should be able to prepare a strategy, and the governance of data across his or her peers. So they know that what value they are able to get from that data, and how they can share it across their functions. That's where the value comes in. Plus, beyond that the last point would be making sure whatever they do, they do responsibly. Do they actually make things work; whether it's using A.I., whether it's using any machine learning or anything else they have. They make sure that it's responsible data, and make it secure for themselves, for their enterprise, and for their customer. >> Well that is certainly a theme that we're hearing a lot about at Infomatica world. Tell me about the relationship between Accenture and Informatica. >> It's quite good, it's been good for years. We have been working together for years. The last two years, or two in a half years I think it has really taken a different shape within the new companies, and that's largely because we have really gone into a strategic discussion with the companies, and seeing what is the future. I think one thing that they are doing very well with their leadership. Anil himself is CEO; and Amit, and Tracy, and everybody else. And with our leadership is that we do believe that we are on the surface of un-tapping the value, one. Second thing is I don't think that used cases will draw the benefit which large organizations are looking at. It has to be something done at enterprise level. So think about like I think there another talk in the morning about enterprise data catalog. Amit was talking about, You need that. You need that to not do one used case for one particular business, for one particular country, or one particular customer segment. We need to do that for entire businesses across the enterprise. That can only happen if you have a sense of data, and you know how to do it effectively at scale. That's what I think that people are looking. Companies are going to be looking at the solution base, and I think it's the right timing for having the discussion. >> And there are going to be learnings that you can derive from financial services, and apply to retail, and healthcare, and all sorts of (mumble). Is that what you're finding here at Informatica World? Are you having those in conversations to learn the best practices? >> Oh yeah, I think we have our customers here; Accenture, as we have our customers here. we're presenting in different session. We had (mumbles) present today morning at eleven a.m. about how master data management can actually help you drive a better strategy on transforming your operations system like ESPE. That was never talked earlier, two years back nobody talked about saying how can MDM help you have a better transformation of your ESPE systems. Well that's where we are going. We are saying that, okay you have a trandiction systems, but you also need a system of right governance. Because all of your data, customer data or other data maybe sitting in ESPE or maybe sitting in sales force. How would you connect the dots? You need something to connect that dot so you have a single source of truth, and make sure that you know your customer, or vendor, or location, or everything else in the right fashion. >> Know your customer. So another thing I want to ask you about is the skills gap. I know that workforce of the future is something that you've worked passionately on. Passion keeps coming up in our conversation. (laughs amusingly) At Accenture. Tell us your story first in terms how you came to terms with this skill gap, and what you did at Accenture to remedy it. >> So this is four years back, and we were looking at our tech strategy, and our strategy to (mumbles) our business going forward, or where do we invest? And we are a people centric company so we are 470,000 people, that's a lot of people. In my role, one of the thing in my role is to make sure that I look at all the investment we do on our people. As CDO of our technology business, I need to make sure that we are investing in the right places. So this came to me saying that okay, will we be relevant as 470,000 people ten years from now? That's the question right? Because of A.I., because machine in our name, because people plus machine. What happens to our work force? So that's what I was trying to solve. Instead he's saying, what do we do next, and that was the whole point about workforce of the future. We will work more closely with the machines, and how will that happen. So what skills we will need as humans to work with machines, and everything else. What's going to happen in terms of automation going forward. And plus new talent which is required for the future. So we worked hard on this we built a strategy on what we need, then we did a very simple thing, we actually went to a high speed excursion, and agile sprints. We get it the few of principles actually. I can say a couple of them to use to resinate. One is the principle saying there's only (mumbles) available in the market. So don't spend creating stuff, but spend learning stuff. The second thing the chains of (mumbles) are a vision of our people vision, employee vision. It used to be saying, That you need to preform and grow. Something like that, if you preform high in our company, you'll grow faster. We changed the saying to learn and grow. So we said learning is more fundamental because performance will become automatic when you learn more. What we did was we changed. We worked really hard on the cultural aspect. And one of the things (mumbles) used to always say in the past ten years back, you used to learn a day in a month. Well that may not be enough today. Just because (mumbles) and the change of technology is much faster. It's 10x speed. So you can learn at 10x level, that doesn't mean you need to be learning at deep level for ten things, that's going to be hard for humans to do that. But you can use some help. That's what we do a 2 pronged approach. One is what we call a (mumble) training. Which means we make you more aware of everything that's happening in the world, and we give you a chance to support people-- >> I mean how do you do that, I mean that's a tall order. >> So what I did was we went to the market, and we looked at a lot of platforms. Okay you need technology to do everything. You get it right. You will be sitting here talking (mumbles). Using right technologies, right? Maybe show that our what we're talking is for (mumbles) people to watch us right. But the same thing there when we were looking at all the platforms. I looked at all things and I felt everything was great. (mumbles) It was not something which is exponential So I had to build a platform off it all, so I spent 6 months writing a whole platform. It was a really smart team, and all the logic I used was build a platform which treats or ploy a human in the center of your (mumbles) design. So we made a very personalized platform, where it helps a person to get there, and attracts you to come back. So it's very user friendly, or a very exponential platform. We call it Accenture Future Talent Platform. We deployed it across our entire businesses, we have 70+ number of people who are already being certified to their platform. They feel goof that they've gone to the next stage of their career. And now we are actually using the same platform for our clients. So we are giving them platforms so clients can use that effectively. >> From what I am hearing from you, it's about having technology skills, know how, and expertise. But also having this mindset of learning, and a hungry for learning, and wanting to know more. How do you make sure that, that culture is cultivated in the right way? >> We did some of the campaigns, so a very simple principle that we use is that like you do a marketing campaign to attract a customer. Whether he is selling a (mumbles), or selling a cruise experience, or vacation, or whatever. Use a similar principles for our own employers, and use it as learning campaigns. So marketing campaigns are learning campaigns. So one of the campaigns that we ran was, How important was it for you to be learning fit? So just like we always measure ourselves on health everyday, instead you measure yourself in learning. So our app was actually given to everybody, so you can see whether you are learning enough or not. We're in the culture of seeing how I'm doing against my own goals, but how am I doing against Rebecca's goal. >> Gameafying it, making it a little more fun. Making it a little competition. >> We also did (mumbles) as well, Because we felt that people look at their own models and say, well this person is very sexist, why would I want to be that person. That's a normal human. That's what people see so we made sure that our leaders do what they are saying. And they can buckle it down, they should start learning faster itself, from top management perspective. So people see them learning, they would say, I want to be like him. So that means I need to have the same behavior as this person. >> No, those are critical people in companies. Well, Sanjeev thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It's been a pleasure having you. >> Same here, it was nice talking to you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight. You are watching theCUBE Informatica World 2019. (funky techno music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE, covering Inforum D.C. 2018, brought to you by Infor. >> Well, back here on theCUBE, we are at Inforum '18. We're in Washington, D.C. here in the Walter Washington Convention Center. Not far from the White House. It's about a mile that way, and Capitol Hill's about a mile that way, I think. I know we're right in here, but I know we are smack dab in the middle of it. Dave Vellante and John Walls and Kevin Curry, who's the SVP of the global public sector at Infor. Good to have you with us. Good to see you, sir. >> Great to be here. Thanks for your time. >> So public sector, you're in the heart of it here, and you were telling us before we went on the air that you've got more than 700 clients here at the show this week? >> We do, we do. It's the best attendance we've had yet for Inforum, and I joined about six and a half years ago. And we built this business pretty much from the ground up. So it's been a great experience, and now we're starting to get a lot of adoption within the government, across the government, from federal to state to locals. >> What's the process been like, especially across those three, because I assume they're all different? You know, local, state, federal, everybody has different pain points and there's different tolerances. >> They do, they do. I mean, there's different micro-verticals within each of those statements. As an example, if you look at local governments, it could be anything from transit agencies to K-12 schools, to public works, to police, to fire. They all have all different requirements. State's the same thing, whether it's Department of Transportation or Department of Health and Human Services. And then when you get the federal side of it, then it's from the intelligence community to Department of Defense, healthcare within Defense, like the VA and DoD and Defense agencies as well. So it's a pretty wide swatch of use cases and business cases that you need to be able to sell to. >> Charles said something interesting in the keynote today. I want to ask you about it. He said, "We made a strategic decision to go to the cloud. "We didn't want to compete with Google "and Amazon and Microsoft for CloudScale. "That didn't make any sense for us." And he said, "When we were an on-prem software vendor, "we weren't managing servers for our customers." Now what struck me there is if you look back at the software company back in the day, they really didn't care about the server, right? It was just sort of infrastructure. It was kind of irrelevant to them. The cloud feels different. It seems like a more strategic relationship with Amazon. You know, we talk about Teresa Carlson and what a force she is in the government. AWS in the GovCloud has been a huge force. They had a giant lead. So have you been able to draft off that or is it just another sort of infrastructure platform? >> No, they're a major strategic partnership there with AWS and NN4. At the company level, and especially for me, with the government, they've made the right investments at the right time, I mean, and they actually have cloud environments that are very specific to different segments of the government and to different geographies. So as an example, in the federal government they have an intelligence cloud called C2S, which we work with them on. There's a very large procurement out right now for the Department of Defense called Jedi, which Amazon's going after, as well as the other larger cloud providers, so we're obviously riding that horse with AWS. And also for local governments, and they've done all of the compliancy for the government, whether it be FedRAMP, whether it be CJIS for those departments that are worried about the justice type of requirements. And as you get outside of the U.S., they're putting clouds and we're a global company as well, putting clouds in all the right places. They have a G-Cloud offering in the U.K. and as we talked about earlier when we sat down, they're opening a cloud in the Middle East right now too, in Bahrain that I think traces on oil over there as we speak. >> Right, right. The first Middle East country to claim cloud first. But it just seems like there's a strategic advantage there. And even with the other cloud suppliers. I mean, you know, Google's got its niche, big niche, you know, Microsoft, with its software state, but it seems like Amazon, they talk about that flywheel effect, brings certain technologies that, you know, when you talk to Soma, you guys have been able to take advantage of. It just feels a lot different than the old traditional server manufacturer. Oh, it's a Unix box and there's no difference between vendor A, B and C. >> Absolutely correct. And for us, we've taken advantage of the tools that Amazon has and obviously, we're doing all the compliancy on our applications and they've got whole the infrastructure piece of it, so the two work very well together. >> And that has allowed you to focus on your knitting, if you will. >> Yes. >> The things that you do best, which is a micro-verticals, suite across the application portfolio, bringing AI to the equation, automation, we heard a lot about robotic process automation, which is probably a hot topic in the government. >> Yes. I mean, Charles famously, he may have had a quote. I'm sure you heard it. It's friends don't let friends build data centers. >> Great quote. >> You know, that's not a business we're in. We're a software company. >> Right. >> So the public sector, obviously a different animal than the private sector. Very different needs, different constituents, you got tax payers, you got all that. When you bring the technology into the public sector, what does that do for it or how does that have to be, I don't know, re-conformed or adapted? And ultimately, what's the payoff, right? What's the return on that investment? >> So it was actually pretty shocking how quickly the government has adopted and moved towards the cloud. Typically, they're laggards. Everything happens in the commercial market and then government's a little bit of a late adopter, right? But we're seeing them very quickly go to the cloud and there's a lot of reasons for that. One being, you have an aging workforce. Okay, so the baby boomers are all retiring so a lot of that intellectual knowledge is going out the door. Two, is there's some economies of scale to be realized by doing that because once you're in the cloud, I mean, it's up to the vendor who's maintaining it to maintain that for you. So, you know, the people behind the scenes, they have to do it. You know, when you upgrade your software to go from one release to the other, it's automatically done for you. I mean, so there's real cost savings to be had, you know, from a care and feeding perspective there as well. Also a lot of the, on the ERP side of the things, a lot of the systems that are out in the marketplace today that governments have bought, like the Oracles or the SAPs, a lot of these systems are at end-of-life and the companies are no longer supporting them. So it's a re-implementation for them. You know, and so now they're looking, okay, if we have to re-implement and we have to look at our new options, we're going to do it in a cloud. >> So when you've been around as long as I have, Kevin, >> Right. >> you've seen the pendulum swing. You don't have to agree so vehemently. (laughing) But from mainframe to client server and so you're back to the cloud, and now with IoT, it seems like the pendulum is swinging back to a distributed environment. So help us understand where IoT fits to the cloud and even your on-prem business. >> Okay, so like I say, cloud is a pretty broad topic, okay? We have multiple applications that would run in that environment. So when I look at IoT, I think of things like our asset management platform. We have a very strong enterprise asset management platform that runs in the cloud or runs on-prem. And if you think about infrastructure as an example, which government has a lot of, okay. Think about the ability to have sensors on different pieces of equipment and being able to read that information. Think about using drone technology, okay, to be able to do physical inspections under bridges, so you're not having people having to climb around underneath there. I mean, so being able to do live feeds of data and be able to streamline the way you do business and have that automatically captured within an application. So yes, that is one area where we see it. I mean, I think you're going to see more and more of robotics and artificial intelligence and all the things come into play. I think you heard a lot about that here and it's here. I mean, they were things we saw in movies before but now the technology's here today. >> Well, the other thing we heard this morning that Charles has always talked a lot about the data. You guys always talked about your data lake. I like to think of it as a data ocean. You think about all the data out of GT Nexus and, you know, your customers that are providing data to inform. The data model starts to really expand and you guys have seemed to really take advantage of that. Talk about the data, the importance of data, the importance of securing data to the government. >> Well, think about that. I mean, there's islands of information that governments have that if they were able to consolidate that data and put some intelligence into it, be able to make business decisions versus, you know, one system sitting over here, one system sitting over here and none of them ever communicating or talking to each other. You know, the ability to, You could do from anything from, just think about crime statistics, okay? The ability to deploy resources where the crime is and then as it moves, be able to further deploy resources. You know, New York, years ago, did things like that with CompStat when they were cleaning up Times Square and so forth. But just think of that as a concept, realtime being able to manage data. >> So you've got, here at the show, we were talking about earlier, 700 and some odd clients, 725. You've got the federal forum for the first time. Why now? And what are you getting out of that or what do you hope to get out of that at the end of the week? >> So the whole executive team and our board of directors have made significant investments in this marketplace because they understand that government is a very large beast, if you will, and there's a lot of opportunity for deployment of our solutions and there's a real need to solve problems for constituents here as well. So they've made very significant investments in things for security like FedRAMP, compliancy. You know, some companies are doing it on some of their solutions. We're doing it across the board on all the products that we take to the government marketplace. So we're invested in it. You've probably heard today, Charles talked about the fact that we're going to have a federal cloud suite, which we are. So that means federal financials, okay? Actually being able to solve all the problems for the federal government and comply to all their needs and all the things that are part of mandated accounting for the federal government. They made all the right investments and human capital management would be another area. If you think about, we've got an application called Talent Science. The ability to hire the right people for the right job and retain those people. Just think about, ICE is a good example. You heard that they have to hire thousands of people to deploy on the borders, right? How do you quickly ramp and hire these right people if you don't have the right tools to do it? >> You were quoted in TIME magazine, Marc Benioff's new publication, about America's crumbling infrastructure. What role do you see technology playing generally and specifically in for software and helping with that problem? >> So we do a lot today around infrastructure. As an example, we have a very strong presence in transit agencies here in the U.S. New York City runs us, amounts to about a trillion dollars worth of assets there. So anything moving in, out or around the city, so subways, buses, trains, tunnels, bridges, Metro-North, Long Island Rail Road. L.A. runs us, San Francisco runs us, Chicago runs us, Dallas runs us and many others. So we're managing all of that infrastructure. So you hear a lot about infrastructure bills coming out of the federal government. And they're right. I mean, a lot of these tunnel, a lot of these bridges and tunnels and even roadways were built back during World War II, right? And they're aged, you know, they are starting to crumble and there's going to be a lot of money spent to do that and when it comes to rebuilding those types of things, there's a lot of assets that are going to need to be managed, you know, to do that. So we think there's a real opportunity for software such as what we bring to the marketplace to help with that process. >> How about talent retention? I mean, obviously, as administrations come and go, you know, people move, but there's been a lot of brain drain. I mean, take the Patent Office, people in commercial industry stealing some of the best and brightest out of government. Can software play a role in helping better retain, train, you know, evolve growth paths and careers? >> Yes. I guess, in a couple different ways. I mean, number one, I think the applications of today versus the applications of yesterday have changed so much. I mean, you look at, you know, the applications you have on your mobile phone. The ability to have that look and feel, I mean, our kids today are going to go into the workforce and they won't settle for anything less. They're going to want to have that look and feel. They're going to want to have those intuitive type of applications that help them do their job. And that's the kind of offering we're bringing to the marketplace. Then from just actually bringing the right people and we have an application called Talent Science, as an example, where actually there's multiple different areas of your personality that it can determine and map it back to your top performers in your company. And determine the right people for the right job where they'll fit into that environment and then they would thrive hopefully. And it should increase retention on the staff. In government, we've actually sold it to Department of Health and Human Services for hiring case workers. Okay? Or to police departments for hiring of law enforcement. So there's a real opportunity to take those types of applications and do some pretty creative things. >> What's, I hate to say, the pain side of it. But dealing with the government obviously contracts is an issue, right? And a challenge sometimes maybe for you. I'm curious, in a quickly evolving space such as yours, how do you help them keep up with you and their regulatory oversight and whatever mandated restrictions they have? All those things, you know, that come with government. It just doesn't square up with what you do. >> It is, it's a very, again, to your point, it's a different, it's a different industry with different requirements. And everything here is very open and above board. It's open procurements. Everything is competitively bid. There are contractual vehicles that you competitively bid for that'll allow you to be able to do business a lot easier in the future. I mean, in the feds you have things like the GSA 70 Schedule. U.K., you have something called the G-Cloud contract. A lot of states have vehicles where you can bid for it, so all states and local can buy off of those contracts without having to go to a competitive offering. So there's ways that the business can get done without having to go through a lot. >> Every hoop and every, yeah, right. >> The major pain process. But then there's also competitive RFPs, which, you know, well, they'll put a bid out, it'll be very detailed. You have to answer 3,000 requirements. And then after that you'll end up going into an orals and a demo process and, you know, nine months later, they're going to pick a winner. (laughs lightly) Then you go through, but then you have to go through a very painful contract negotiation process. >> That's the process I was talking about. (laughing) Exactly what I was talking about, right. >> Right. >> Yeah, yeah. Well, Kevin, thanks for being with us. We appreciate the time. >> It's my pleasure. >> And it sounds impressive, right, with the turnout you had, so I'm sure you're very, very pleased with the response you've had here on the show for so far. >> I am and I thank you for your time and >> You bet. >> have a good show. >> Look forward to seeing you down the road. Alright, sir, thank you. Back with more here live on theCUBE. We're at Inforum '18 and we are in Washington, D.C. >> I'm quite sure they got me pinned up back here, but I can't-- (upbeat music)

>> Live from Washington D.C, it's the Cube, covering inforum DC 2018 Brought to you by inforum. >> And welcome back to Washington D.C. I think you kind of guess where we are. [Mumbles] Over my shoulder there inforum 2018, along with Dave Vellante. I'm John Walls, we are live here at the Walter Washington convention center for this years show. We are joined by Martine Cadet, who is vice president of the educational arts program at Inform. Martine, good to see you. >> Thank you. >> And Jennifer Bucanan who is manger and head of the Inforum practice and CFO Solutions. Jennifer, good to see you. >> Thank You >> Let's talk about the program. Martine, ou can give us, first off, the inside scope of this. And then Jennifer you're on the other side of the fence. >> Right >> Because the very people, the individuals that Martine and her program are training, you're hiring. >> Absolutley. >> So I want to hear, first off lets talk about the program in general and then to you, Jennifer for about why. And what do you find really attractive about these people? >> Absolutley >> So the Education Alliance Program is 4 years old this year actually, so we're very excited about that. And what we really set out to do was build a talent pipeline that our company and our ecosystem of partners and customers can tap into. So there's been a lot of conversation about the fact that there's not enough talent to fill the positions that are in the industry. So we wanted to do something different where by we could actually grow that talent organically. So instead of going to the oricals and the SAP And having that revolving desk of okay we can leave this here and go to this competetor and work for them and be experienced. We need to find another way to be able to grow our talent so that as an organization, we can continue to be innovative and grow as we move forward. So EAP really kind of serves within that gap, but we do it a little differently than some of the other programs. We really focus on not just identifying talent, but really training them on the industry skill set. So what people `learn in school is amazing, but it is usually more theory. How do you take that theory and really apply it to what is really needed in the industry today, In a real job today? And that where the Education Alliance Program really kind of serves that niche. >> And generally speaking, the age group would be what? Of the trainees. >> The majority of the people that we train are more college age. So 18 all the way up to, I would say early 30's. So early in career talent is what we think about. >> Okay, are they in school? >> Some of, yeah. >> The majority of them right now are in school, but we also welcome people who are outside of school. We've kind of evolved our program where its not just partnerships with colleges and universities, but we train people who come from training organizations; like Yes We Code, and New York Urban League and things of that nature. And You're Up is another great partnership that we started having relationships with. So we do everything from the traditional integrate within a classroom setting, to more of a bootcamp model where talent gets trained over the course of a couple of months to meet this business needs that we have and are here now. >> Okay, and so Jennifer, then on the hiring side of this the advantage to you is what? >> Well for us, we are always looking for folks that coming out of school, whether it's a masters degree or a bachelors degree, that they have a little bit of a focus going into consulting and implementation services. There's a mix of skills that you look for. Some of it is that commitment to being a forthcoming service orientated person. Somebody with a little bit of perspective. And when we met the EAP students, that ambition just comes right out of those folks. And they have purpose in mind because they started to get a little bit of a taste of the real world of what they want to do. So they've got context and they've got direction and a lot of the folks that we've met with had some good accounting and finance knowledge, which we value. Plus they had the IT component, where traditionally if I just go to try to do some campus recruiting I might get one or the other, but it's hard to get both. >> So training that revolving door, that martine described which, there's still some of that going on, but you get a lot of viable knowledge. You know where the skeletons are buried. They can fast pass some of it. Trading that for excitement, diversity, maybe a different type of creativity. Certainly not as much well that's the way it's done in the enterprise. Right? Maybe discuss that a little bit. >> Yeah absolutley, the folks that, what we need coming in have that creative element and they're not just, ya know, crunching out and doing maybe the theory that you have mentioned. They've had a little bit of experience at a practical site of understanding how to apply technology and solve buisiness problems. Cause that experience that they go through in the EAP program is almost like a simulation and gives them a little taste of that. And when we talk about what we do and we introduce them to our business and try to look for a fit. They have a better understanding of what we are talking about and do. >> So Martine, in the 4 years since we've first met, what has changed? Has the scope, the goals expanded? What did you not forget that actually happened? >> Yeah Maybe you could share some of your experiences. >> Yeah, so in the four years we've gone deeper around world based training. So when we started, it was more around exposing students to different career opportunities, to what is EAP. I've been in the industry forever, but I was always more on the consumer side. So I didn't know what ERP was. [Laughing] Is this even professional? So helping students see the opportunities there, was kind of the initial focus and getting them to have kind of a toe in the water. We've gone much deeper this year, in particular going to role based training. So, what do you need? What skills encompanies you to be an amazing sales professional versus somebody who's going into the development space, or somebody who's going to manage kind of the cloud space, which is where our company is focused. So that's been one of the biggest evolutions in which we have done within EAP over the last couple years and were much more global than we were when we first started. So we are excited about that as well. And then in terms of things that surprised us. I think of of the areas that surprised us, it was a little bit harder to place students frankly, than we had initially had thought it would be. And so one of the ways that we've worked through that is we've worked with our talent science team, and they've been phenomenal at really helping identify fit. And so now we can have much richer conversations with the hiring managers around. Yes, I know that you would like an expereinced hire perhaps, but this is a reason why one of these more inexperienced hires is actually a great fit and will be your next superstar on you team. And on the flip side, we can have conversations with the talent around career opportunities that they might not have even thought about before. Cause now we've got kind of there fit for different roles. >> So were certainly seeing in many buisiness settings, that gut feel is being replaced by, you know, data and fact. When it comes to hiring people though, there's still that, well there's several things. There's gut feel, there's repor, there's biases, so are technologies like machines intelligence, and programs like this cutting through that? >> Yeah that's what we're trying to have happen. I mean it's hard, it's hard. Everyones trying to tackle these issues, but with technologies like talent signs, with having programs which address the feedback of well I don't know where to find a first talent. Well if you go to the same three schools that you always go to, that are by nature not diverse, then you're not going to find the diverse talent you are looking for. So if you can tap into a program where we go out of our way to make sure we're actually fishing in new ponds, and that we're bringing in amazing talent to the forefront that people can tap into. And we are really proud about that. >> Well, what's really key about that, and we were having this conversation earlier. Is that if you really want to bring diversity into your organization, you have to look beyond your inner circle. But it's a pain to do that, its time consuming. So what you've done, is you've fast passed that. Right? And give an opportunity for somebody to dive in. >> Yeah >> Yeah >> Sure, and some of those folks became part of our circle. Cause a year ago we met a wide group of the folks in the EAP program, and we were impressed by the broadness. Like I mentioned earlier, you've got some folks that are still sophomore, junior year that are just getting started. We've got relationships foudning with those folks. We have folks that are just getting ready to graduate, and we have folks that have been in the workplace, came back. So we've got a breath of experience, but folks from all over. And we were one of those folks who would go to the same school over and over. And you know, we would get good talent but, it's that breath, and that new perspective that comes in. And now that's our pipeline. We've got folks at different levels in their educational career that we stay in touch with. And a lot of the students reaching back to us is what helped us make connections for folks to bring on. >> So how do you find me? If I'm an interested student? >> Yeah >> Or how do I find you? >> Yeah >> If I am at a school. That's one question, and secondly once I'm in, is it like ROTC? Like I have a three year commitment after that? [Laughing] [Mumbling] >> You're invested in me. >> That's a great idea. [Laughing] >> A lot of resource time is being put into me, developing me, so what am I going to give you back? >> Yeah absolutely. >> Take on both of those if you would. >> Its more about finding the member institutions and then finding me the right talent within those organizations. Right? And so we do a lot of research and analysis on where we want to go. So we do want to make sure we are building pipelines that fit the busininesses needs first and foremost. So where do we have a majority of our offices? Where do our partners and customers have a majority of their offices? Where are the hiring needs and the types of roles? Then based on that we look for organizations that actually have core programs that align to that. And those are the ones that we want to have relationships with first and foremost. And then we seek out the talent. We actually have marketing communications people who are out there and promoting the courses and the partnerships that we have in the classroom to hopefully get the talent to actually apply to the class itself.. >> Alright so once I'm in. >> Once your in. >> You've got me. >> Yeah. >> I'm a junior, I'm studying, I'm doing my thing. >> Yeah. >> You're training me. Well I'm going to graduate in a year. So am I on the hook, or will you place me? >> We investin their training, and we also try to provide wrap around support services. So we've got people on the team who are beyond passionate and focused on making sure they've got the soft skills, who are also focused on making sure they are introduced to hiring managers within our ecosystem and within our organization who might be interested in talking to them. We set up kind of meet and greets as well, where we have events around that so placements important to us. We can't commit and guarantee a role per say, but we can open up opportunities perhaps the students didn't have before. And give them the training so that when they are compared against their peer, they can come out ahead. >> So having that Charles several times and interviewing him a number of times, this is, it certainly feels more than optics. What are the success metrics that you look at, and can you share some with us? >> Yeah, so we do look at how many people we actually trained and made it through the program. We look at how many people have been placed within Inforum as well as our ecosystem. We are looking to see how many students will actually pursue a path to certification, and go through the deeper training and learning. And then we look and see how many people are actually liking the program. Like what they're getting out of it. We'd love to see, I'd personally love to see in a couple years that people will have gone through EAP are now future customers, your future partners. You know, placement is one piece, but its also how are we influencing the industry as a whole? And for competitors, hiring EAP students, that actually goodness. Like we are trying to really change what is going on in the injustry perspective on how we grow and change talents. Because the way its working today doesn't work for everybody. So we've got to do something different. And the fact that Inforum has stepped up to actually grow it organically, I think is you know, a testimony to Charles. >> Great mindset, I mean you're not trying to just hang on and you're certainly embracing this. But if when an individual leaves, to whether even a competitor, there's some pride in that. Like hey we trained this individual and we're changing the industry. And you know, sometimes those things just have a way of coming back around. >> Yes, yeah, yes >> Absolutely >> So Jennifer, from the clients side if you will, how big could this program be for you? Like how helpful has it been, and how much more do you need it in order to meet these employee gaps? Cause as we've heard, the numbers aren't adding up right now. >> Right, right. So for us we've been having some conversations about how do we grow together on this? They've offered to say hey, CFO Solutions, would you like to be involved in some of the teaching opportunities? So we've been having dialouge about how that might be. And we've been talking about particular skill sets. You know, they start out with kind of a broad skill set and we work with a very specialized component of that. So we've been talking about the product mix that they involve in their program and bringing something more direct to what we're working with. So that's a big. >> Personalized learning. >> Yes. So its helping us kind of refine our pipeline because we know what's going to be coming out of it and we know that is is getting that slice of this US and the world if necessary right? It gives us a little assurity that we can get folks at different levels of their career. We can start talking to them now and we can start working with these guys on honing the skillset that they'll be coming in with. The soft skills piece that you had mentioned earlier was on of the real standout skills that we saw come out of this. All these folks, I can't overemphasize the driviness, the commitment they had, the communicating with me over a year period. And they're boldness, cause that's one of the main things that we need out of the folks that we bring and put in front of our clients. >> So this is all awesome, touchy feely stuff too, but at the end of the day, I've read that it has a buisiness impact. >> Absolutely, absolutley. >> So what's your experience been in terms of the bottom line? >> Well, so buiness impact wise, when we take a risk and bring somebody fresh out of school, and we bring him to a porject where you require very specialized skills, we need people that we can take a risk on, who will hit the ground running. So if I go and grab somebody from anywhere, I don't know what I'm going to get. I don't know if they're going to like their career. I don't know if they're going to understand what we are doing. And there's a lot of ramp up time, time before I can bill for that source, just to be practical. And when we bring in Eap students, I know they've had a taste of it, and they're ambitious and driven for it. And I can get them billable more quickly. And then I can be proud to have them out in front, because they can tell a story. A lot of this is a relationship business. I can have them come to a project kickoff and they can talk about what they've come from. And that they've had an involvement with Inforum, not just hey I'm fresh out of school. I don't know what I'm doing here. It's hey, I've been working with a product for a couple years. Even now and they hit the ground running just so much more quickly. >> So faster time to value. >> Yes, faster time to value. We've seen internally for the folks we've hired, that we've got one hundred percent voluntary retention rate. >> That's amazing. >> For early retention rate. For early career talent, four years into the program, where that's about 20% better than the rest of the talent that we have, right? So we're looking at retention, cause we know if you lose somebody, that's nine months of salary probably to replace them and to retrain somebody else. >> That's right, yes >> Absolutely >> Much easier to hang onto somebody than go find somebody new. >> Okay so you're getting the billing faster, higher quality, I heard. Which means better customer retention and less employee turnover. >> Less employee turnover. >> Which means lower cost. >> Absolutely. >> And on the recruiting side of things too, the development of trying to find talent, there's a lot of time invested and we're a firm that has a very lean operations team. A lot of us wear many hats. So one of my hats is my recruiting and development, and this just streamlines things for me and makes it so much easier. I don't have to spread myself thin trying to find folks. I know I've got kind of a pipeline and I've been sharing it with my other leadership in the other practices to kind of share that along the firm >> And to put it in context, I mean so for the trainings that are around rules and careers, were looking at getting the students to have 200 plus hours of training over bootcamp experience. Now, put that against somebody else who has zero right? You're getting to faster productivity, you're shaving off anywhere from 3 to 4 to 6 months of on boarding time by hiring somebody through this program. >> Yeah. >> And minimizing on boarding frustration which would help. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Sympathize with. >> Makes perfect sense. Great sounding program, we appreciate the insight today. Thanks for being with us. >> Martini- Yeah, thank you. >> And you're wearing many hats, you'll need a rain hat out there today. >> I will, I will. [Laughing] >> Congratulations. >> One more, yeah. Great program, thank you ladies. We're back with more on Live. The Cube is in Washington D.C at Inforum 2018.

[Music] hi I'm Peter burns and welcome to another cube conversation we are here in our Palo Alto studios with Chen C Wang Chen C is the founder and General Partner of rain capital and an old colleague Chen see you've been around for a long time we're very happy to have you here in a cube at least in my opinion one of the leading thinkers and security what's happening in ite data security digital business security we were colleagues at four store many years ago what are you doing now well I'm doing this new fund I just started rain capital it's an early-stage venture fund focusing on cyber security innovation so very excited about that and very specific yes I was security and AI as well but the core focus is cyber security so let's talk about what that actually means because there's a lot of new practices new processes new groups with NIT that are being spawned as a consequence of this memoriae agile devops one of the groups or one of the practices or expertise centers it's especially underrepresented in the security world somewhat surprisingly is DevOps what do we need to do to bring more security into DevOps right that's a really good question and that's one of the areas that I've been focusing on in the last two three years is looking at the impact of DevOps practices to IT or including security and it's a huge impact because initially or originally what we have is security is a practice that that is gatekeeper right so you got applications being developed and then you you test them and then you go through security tests at the end and before you could deploy DevOps practices disrupt all of that what DevOps set says is I'm a developer I can deploy my application directly onto a production productionserver without going through all those gates because business agility demands it right once you have developers or testers touching your production servers directly some of the old security practices go away right you cannot do that anymore because too heavy-handed there's also the notion of portability so today it's very common for companies to want move their workloads from the internal data center to AWS or maybe next month I want to move to Google Cloud or Azure and I don't want to go through all the testing and pre-implementation practices I want to do it right away and the portability also disrupts existing security practices right so if your security policy depends on you instrumenting the server to put some kind of module on there tomorrow the server is not not there anymore right so what do you do so it engenders hosts loads of issues and also is a catalyst for innovation so that's why I'm very very excited about that so when you talk to customers users because I know you still have work with a lot of relationships I'm sure that's going to be one of the distinctions that you bring to bear when you think about what rain capital does what are say the three things that you tell them you've already mentioned you got a you got to ensure that the practices are in place that portability is at least made more obvious and that you don't bind security down to a particular device because it device may not be there that's three what are some of the kind of organizational institutional things that DevOps folks have to do to make sure that everybody gets the security profile with the need right so what we're seeing in terms organizationally or culturally the change is that in a in a DevOps led organization the the boundaries are going away right so some of the companies that I'm seeing cloud native to start with they may not have an ops team right what they do is that IT there their infrastructure team is embedded with the applications team it really the application demand and knowing what the application wants to do and then works with the developers to establish policies and deployment practices as opposed to being arms and lands from the the developers which you know creates all kinds of tension so it's an organizational shift as well and mindset shift right so the mindset shift is that you're no longer somebody who enforces policies you actually enable business versus the policy enforcer and it's easy to say but they actually requires a very deep shift in thinking so I got another question on security and I won't move to something else but really quickly as IT organizations or as businesses source their IT capabilities more from public cloud or service providers that means that they also have to have a new approach to how they to institutionalizing the work the practice the process the certainty associated with good security in in your experience what are just a couple of things that businesses have to worry about as they negotiate and monitor and manage relationships with third parties as it pertains to security right that's a good question there possibly a long list of things right but I don't use the the top things is don't get locked in right all the platform providers want to give you all these enriched capabilities as long as you buy into our services right so what you want to do is I want to stay at the level that I can easily move right so then this may mean I have to do a little bit more things or have to compensate with third party technologies as opposed to buying into this vertically integrated notion of the platform providers and that's where you need to stay at because if otherwise you get locked it so that's one second is the the ability to do monitoring has to be real-time has and the the thing about DevOps is real-time visible of the real-time closed loop response right so you cannot like secure the analytics in the past has to usually is you get tons of logs put there and somebody chewing through logs and look for anomalies it's not fast enough it's not good enough anymore so what we want is monitoring capabilities that are able to do it platform in the platform independent way but able to give you real-time visibility and response capability right there and that's where the innovation comes from you know one thing I've noticed we've been talking I've been talking a couple customers and they're starting to discover that some of the cloud service providers are using security as a way to lock in right so so and security I think should be built in right it should be by default secure by default is the way we want to be you always know how to do yeah yeah and and you should be able to get out if if security is the differentiation then maybe it's not the right market rights group yeah all right so ring capital has in addition to looking at the whole DevOps world you bring in your security expertise to bear on potential investments it's got another distinction what's the other distinction about rain capital um it's a woman led venture fund which is a rarity in Silicon Valley right so oh is it I don't know you tell me yeah no it is a rarity there are not a lot of funds that one would associate as being a broadly representative of or very inclusive so as you are moving forward with recap we'll talk a bit about the evolving role of women in technology so so I would say that even though it's a woman led venture fund I don't think of ourselves as different just because woman led I think we are different because we have a deep deep understanding of the market and deep understanding of the technology and also very extensive relationship with end-users but in terms of women in technology and women in security I'm a big advocate um so for the past two years I was the program co-chair for the Grace Hopper conference I put together the security and privacy content for the conference and the the need for a an ecosystem that is inclusive that is enabling for underrepresented either gender or race it is huge right so people go to Grace Hopper conference and they come back and they so inspired because they see all these women representing them and I think in Silicon Valley we need that insecurity we need that even more because if you look at some statistics I think women in general IT is about 24% representative army representation in security is about 11% so we have a long way to go now I'm going to avoid making comments about that because it's smart not to but those are those are numbers that are distressing that's obvious clearly there's a lot of talent you're not the only one there's a lot of talent out there there's clearly got be brought to bear and so you might not be differentiated by the fact that as women you do things differently but it might nonetheless be a more comfortable home for a woman like yourself and have a great idea and want to turn it into a business failure that's one thing all right so Chauncey and by the way I got to say just a quick advertisement for the cube the cube has been a major supporter for for women in tech for a couple years now we've been at a number of these different conferences Jeff Frick who's the general manager john john fourier co co dave one co co put a lot of time and energy so we look forward and give us a point oh absolutely we look forward to more fruitful relationships like that in the future so once again I'm Peter Burris with Wicky bonds looking angle and we've been talking to Chen Zi Wang of rain Capital founder General Partner about a number of different topics Chauncey once again thank you for every much for being on the cube thank you for having me

>> Announcer: Live from Nassau in the Bahamas. It's the Cube! Covering Polycon 18. Brought to you by Polymath. >> Hello everyone. Welcome to a special exclusive cube conversation here in the Bahamas for Polycon 18. It's a cryptography, cryptocurrency I should say, show with blockchain. It's a great event. It's brought securities tokens and token economics, the value economy that's changing the world is certainly in play. It's the beginning of a massive wave that's coming. We've reported on the Cube and SiliconANGLE before. We're here with the co-founder of Ethereum and the CEO of Decentral and also maker of Jaxx. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having me. >> So we've been covering a lot of emerging waves and I got to say that I've seen some waves in my days but this one's a tsunami. You can see the water pulling out and you see the exposed clams and crabs out there. A complete shift of value, data, users, decentralized impacts of business models to industries. I mean it's just mind-blowing and it's intoxicating. But a new community is evolving. I mean it reminds me of the early days of the personal computer combined with all the inter-networking and the internet kind of rolled up into one massive shift. How do you see it from your perspective being on the inner core of this community? What's your take? >> Definitely the biggest thing of those things that you mentioned is yeah the tsunami. We started with information, when the internet was started, ways to be able to move information globally. Disrupting everything to do with publishing companies, with postal service, anything to do with information transfer. And I've been around since the BBS days, way back there before the internet even came about. So when the internet came about it was my first instinct and I'm like, "Wow. This is going to just change the way information moves." And then when I got into this in 2012 into the crypto-space, into bitcoin at the time, I'm like, "Wow this is beyond the internet. This is value transfer now without needing intermediaries and the disruption that's going to happen is going to just completely change finance, the way that currencies are handled." It's going to touch every single sector. So this is much bigger and it's bigger because the everyday person can get involved with it. >> You know one of the things that we were just commenting this show, Polycon 18 put on by Polymath which makes a securities token model for companies to use, sets up kind of a growth and funding model. We're going to talk more about that in our live feed. But I noticed a lot of Canadians are here. Besides having ice hockey, one of my favorite sports being from the east coast in the U.S., I remember in the 80s a lot of PKI stuff being done in Canada. A lot of really important cryptography work was done in Canada. There's a lot of amazing computer science programs in Canada. There's a lot of progressive things going on in Canada. Can you share your thoughts on that? >> Sure. >> Because I think you're starting to see that wave coming down. I won't call it a cold spell, I'll call it like innovation spell coming from the north and into the U.S. and then all around the world. >> Yeah it's a real disproportionate amount of Canadians in this whole scene which is really interesting. I was at an event called the Satoshi Roundtable about a month ago in Cancun. And it was about 20% were actually from Canada and this was a global event. And what I think it is is a community basis. In 2012 I showed the Toronto Bitcoin Meetup Group. And that was like what are we like six years ago. And the amount of people that have come through Decentral and come through the meetup group that we started, started just sparking so many different things. That's where Ethereum came from. Polymath from Toronto here. Trevor and I go back, way back to 2012. So I think it's a matter of the community being built that really early on in Toronto and Canada that have led to the spark of what's going on. And now with things like the public markets and the way Canada is is kind of being a good fertile ground for companies actually going live on different-- the TSX in Canada. And that's helping to facilitate things. So ton of talent, ton of amazing things that I think hopefully Canada can prove itself to be the global headquarters. However, there's also regulatory things. Since you have a lot of Canadian companies that are saying we're going to set up offshore because we don't know how Canada is treating things. That's also a counterbalance. But in general there's tons of good things coming out from Canada and from Toronto. >> You know we were early on the cloud wave going back to 2000, you know late 2000s. And now you're starting to see with cloud computing some visibility. I'll see Amazon web services kicking ass and they're just blowing away their numbers. But you're seeing kind of a clear visibility between infrastructure as a service and sass. And just to kind of use a metaphor for kind of what's going on here is the whole platform as a service never happened. So you got infrastructure and you got application. So this community is emerging. It's still small, it's growing, it's dynamic, it's robust. Very intimate. But there's some things going on at the infrastructure level that are super important. And there's certainly a tsunami of new kinds of software developers coming in. So comment on those two things because you know it's kind of moving train is happening in parallel at the same time. >> Definitely. >> Can you share some color on the dynamics between the infrastructure progress and innovation and speed scale, tech, and then the tsunami of these decentralized application developers which are coming in from 13-year-olds to 65 and older. I mean across the gamut. >> We're building infrastructure. That's what it's about. I've always had a very long-term thing with everything whether I invest in things or-- I'm super long-term in the whole space. So 2012 everything was bitcoin for me. 2013, started developing wallets. I realized that the wallets is the browser for value transfer. You got the internet browser, that's what moves information. Now we're in the age of value and then the wallets is what enables people to manage and move digital assets. So I started building wallets for bitcoin. When we started Ethereum I'm like, "Okay there's beyond bitcoin now." Started Ethereum. Did that for about a year and then went back to building the interface, the actual platform for all these technologies to be able to utilize to manage and move digital assets. So that's what I focus on is the infrastructure play of connecting to all these blockchains and providing the user experience to be able that the masses like my dad to be able to actually have the browser moment. Like, "Oh, now I know what I can do with this." And that's what's been missing and that's what I've been focusing on. And then in there is where you have the apps start getting built on to stuff. So that's always been my play is to build the single interface for every blockchain, support the entire ecosystem, not focus on one technology because who know what's going to actually live now for a long time. And that's what I'm doing is building that single interface that my dad can use to understand how to move and manage his digital assets, and then partner with companies projects. The Polymaths, the Eons, all these companies from the space that are offering value in different areas and we want to be that single interface that brings it all together. So definitely infrastructure play, but also applications that can be built on top of that infrastructure. >> Yeah I mean infrastructure needs to be enable and you think about the browser, right? I mean the browser created the internet to be usable. And the web was born because of it. And of course HTP protocol. But interesting on the infrastructure side. I fought the wars back in the days you know SNA, Decknet, TCPIP was emerging into the OSI models. I remember you know TCPIP was one those moments-- and people use that as an example. I hear it all the time and you know I even use it here and there. But that created a galvanizing moment where hey we can inter-operate together with the standard stack and not fill all seven layers. But you know it made things happen. The question that people are asking is it's kind of a TCPIP moment in this industry but is there 40 versions of it? Is that an issue? Is that reality? >> I think it's actually-- I always equate it to there being websites. And what I'm doing is I'm building the browser so that actually the websites can actually interact with the technology. So they're focusing on different sectors and they're making different plays in all these different areas that are going to touch with value transfers. And value transfer is amazing. That's what's going to disrupt things beyond information. And then with smart contracts and this thing we did with Ethereum it's like okay this all coming together to touch law, insurance, gaming, all the different sectors are going to be actually changed. I don't want to say disrupted, I don't like that word. But changed and evolved into great amazing things. But these protocols that are being developed are choice and the ones that actually are the ones that are going to create the most amount of value and great user experience were the ones that actually we're going to carry on. So it's amazing to see the amount of competition, the amount of new projects. And the ones that are creating the value is what's going to actually survive. >> And that dog will hunt, basically. >> Yeah. >> Okay the wallet question. Love this simplicity model. What's your vision on the wallet because you could say okay there's multiple wallets, there's a diversity of wallets. I could have a brown wallet, black wallet, leather wallet, all kinds of different wallets. Are you looking at it as a technology enabler that you're doing or is it an actual wallet? Because again what we learned in open source is why build something when someone else already has it? So that's the ethos of most developers. So are you looking at the wallet as saying I'm going to provide a wallet capability end to end or is it base code? >> It's interface. The wallet's the engine. The wallet is what's needed in order to connect with all the different block chains. That's what we've been building over the last two years is actually the infrastructure to connect to all the different blockchains. It's the interface that we built on eight platforms. So you can have a single interface on all the platforms that ties yourself in a with a 12 word key that enables you to derive keys for all the blockchains. So the key system that we offer, the interface to all the connections which is the browser, and then the back end AWS almost like structures to all the different blockchains is our value add to all of our partners. And we're all about driving partner interaction. >> So simplicity's a big part of it. >> Super-- yeah definitely. >> And ease of use. Ease of integration. >> Yeah we need the interface. You can't be using 10 different wallets for all the different things you're trying to manage. So we're trying to create that single interface across all the things it supports and drives the whole community forward. >> Dave Alanta who you just met and I always talk about this all the time. You know it's like you built-- if people want to sell a certain technology a certain way but it reminds me of the gaming industry. There became a market for game engines but that only because someone built a successful game and someone said, "Hey I want a game engine!" You have an engine and I don't want to have to build an engine I'll just use a game engine because someone did it and that became an industry. You can't sell a game engine if there's no gaming. So you have to have an application that might have some core technology. Is that what's happening in the wallet world right now? Are you kind of doing that? >> So for us that's exactly the same way. We build the infrastructure and now we have partners that create apps and tap into our back end. So they don't have to worry about all that stuff. An example is Coinbase. So Coinbase and us came to an agreement last year where we'll start helping them to-- they have a service where you can use your credit card to buy litecoin, bitcoin, and Ethereum. Well inside of Jaxx you'll be able to add that integration, connect them to all the chains. So their users can actually still buy that, but we can flip it using another partner and give them Polymath. That's the thing. It's about creating value with the different apps and we want to be the store that connects all these different apps to the blockchain so they don't have to worry about that. Bitpay is another example. They enable you to pay invoices in bitcoin. But they only want to deal with bitcoin. Well in Jaxx you can pay with any currency. We flip the bitcoin with one of our partners, send them bitcoin, they don't have to worry about all the back end. >> So you're creating inter-operability of money and value. >> And value. Yeah definitely. >> Or-- buy yeah money. Well bit-- you know. Crypto money. >> And the experience that my dad's going to use to understand this whole space. >> They don't have to write code to integrate. The user can just use it. Alright talk about the developer community. What's your advise to developers that are onboard and looking for guidance in navigating through. And people are learning really fast. You're seeing people come into the industry literally with some background that might not be related to tech but have natural math skills, natural coding skills. They're coming in and actually making a difference joining communities. What's your advice to these developers who want to build decentralized applications? >> So there's two separate kind of devs. There's ones that can be really good devs that can be onboarded into the space. They're not working on protocol level stuff. And then there's the devs that actually are working on the protocol stuff. And they're hard to find. They're hard to secure because you need the experience of number of years in order to do that. For us we actually look for good devs that we can bring in and onboard into what we do which not necessarily solving major problems. It's working with protocols that are solving it and integrating those protocols in. So the protocol level is very difficult to find developers right now. So I would suggest as much experience on that is going to be what you can do to get ahead. But in general if you're a good dev don't be scared of the space. And if you're going to align yourself with a company that can help teach you how to get in, that's what we want. We don't actually target blockchain devs. We target good devs, and we let them know-- we don't even advertise blockchain. Because sometimes they go, "Blockchain? I don't have that." But if you get good devs, we can actually teach them on our end. So it's actually-- we did a job fair about a week ago. We had 100 devs come out, pre-qualified devs, that we spent about a month trying to pre-qualify them. They came in, already had the experience. And we had 100 of them come in because they're interested in the space and we marketed as you don't need to know blockchain. Good devs, we'll get you into it. >> You know we was talking last night, we were having some cocktails with some crypto guys and gals and it was funny we talked about two things. And I want to get your thoughts and reaction to both of them. One was latency kills and the other one was women in the ecosystem. This event here has a lot of women on the agenda and so you're seeing a lot of great diversity going on. So what's your reaction? Latency kills and the roll of latency is something to watch and design against. And then the diversity angle. >> Can you first clarify what you mean about latency kills? I'm not sure what you mean by that. >> Yeah in terms of networking. So like for round-trip times, where you have a decentralized network. You're writing to the blockchain. >> Oh you just mean the slowness with decentralized network and how that's been impacting? >> Yeah decentralized networks and people throwing-- >> That's definitely a major issue with just scalability. There's a major issue which will be solved. And that will be solved. I don't really think too much about it except the problem solvers are dealing with that and they will get past to the point where we can use it and scale these technologies globally. And because of the competition with the systems-- >> You're not worried about it. You see it as just a problem space. >> No I try not to worry about anything. This will happen. It's coming. The second thing, I like to look at individuals. So I don't really look at the gender thing with it. It's more about individuals. I don't want to say I'm going to start now focus on encouraging women in the space. It's hopefully they will start taking initiative just like everybody else does. So I tend not to look at the two types of the things. >> Well I bring it up because The New York Times wrote a really negative story about women not being in the space. And I was just pilot lighting that this event, Polycon, that Polymath-- >> But it's just the way it is. And why even think about it. It's just it is what it is. >> I hope we won't have to have these conversations anymore. >> We want the best of the best people and I've got a number of girls that work for me and they're fantastic. But I don't necessarily head a job and say, "Well we got to bring in more women to do this." That doesn't make any sense. >> And that conversation should be just assumed. Alright so I want to get your thoughts on what you're working on. What are you working on right now? You got your company, you've done some great things. We know the Ethereum story and that's continued to evolve in a great way. Attractive to developers. And I saw Charlie up on a panel in with Bill Tye in Dubai and really commenting on he's long on Ethereum. He thinks he said it's going to be more valuable than bitcoin. Little haymaker for the young gun there on stage. Really important for developers. And you're pioneering with the wallet. What's the key things that you're working on both on the technical product side and on the business front for Decentral. >> So the technical side has been for the last year and a half building the back end infrastructure to be able to support 10 million, 50 million users. We haven't been advertising. We haven't been marketing what we've been doing because we think it's the wrong approach to actually go and try to just look for user growth when your infrastructure's not ready to grow. So our focus has been fully on being able to support 15, 20 million users. We're at about one million right now. All organic without advertising. So if you can't support that why do you want to be advertising? So we've been focusing the last year and a half to ensure that we are scalable and that we can grow when we hit the go button. So this year is all about hitting that go button. It's infrastructure's now in place. We are set to support 10 million users. And now it's the announcement which we did just recently about Jaxx Liberty, which is our new platform Jaxx 2.0. Which is everything you need for the blockchain space. It's your explorer, it's your charts, your graphs, your portfolio, your news directed on what your portfolio is. It's the one browser. You won't be using 10 different browsers to go to different websites. We've always had the goal to create the engine which is the wallet, and then the interface which is the single thing that the masses can use to understand the technology. So our focus is on partnerships into the app store of our products that connects to all the back ends. And basically supporting every company, creating wins for everybody, helping to push every product that actually has value, incentivizing people to create better valuable projects because then you'll get more support from us, and creating wins for everybody. I'm not about Ethereum, I'm not about bitcoin, I'm about the whole ecosystem. >> Yeah. You're about the growth. Rising tide floats all boats. But what's the value proposition that you're offering to partners on the integration? Is it speed to deployment, speed to value, all those things? >> So getting your token inside of Jaxx now gets you on eight platforms. And you don't want to worry about having a wallet for your separate platform. It doesn't make any sense. So what we do is we charge for integrations to come inside of our product, and then we have separate things. That's integration partners, or token partners. Then we have service partners. That's the Bitpays, the Coinbase, the-- all those guys that have apps or have integrations inside where we can expose our users to their services and they pay us. So our proposition to them is more users and more service on a single interface so that we can direct their users. And we don't charge users any more. We get paid through our integration. So think about us being paid for every website visit. >> Yeah. That's good value Okay so now you're going to give a keynote on stage here at the Polymath event called "Polycon 18." What are you going to be talking about? What's the vibe? What's the script? Are you going to wing it? Do you have an agenda? You're laid back, you're cool. Is there a talk format? What are you going to do? >> I never plan anything before I walk up on stage. Literally I like to look at the audience. Any preparation stuff for me doesn't make any sense. So I literally go up on stage and I always wing it from there. So it could be a little bit about just people working together. There's a lot of this versus that mentality. There's the whole thing of if you're not this then you're that. >> It's the if you're not Trump then you're-- I don't like that. I think there's a lot of in between. There's a lot of things that-- it's about working together. It's creating great synergies. Creating things that help the whole thing grow. And we've seen that. Especially a lot of companies in Toronto. There's so many synergistic relationships of gaps being filled in from companies just in Toronto that add value. So Polymath, securities tokens. It was needed. It was something I talked with Trevor about a year ago and he's taken it and flown with it. We support Polymath. But I also invest in other securities platforms as well. tZERO is something that I'm looking to get in. I've got about 45 different projects right now. It's spreading the love. It's saying let's all work together. As long as there's no scamming going on, I'm good. Let's work together, let's all come together. >> You know Anthony I did some checking around on you before the interview and I got to say, you know community. You know open source. You've been around and you've seen the formulas that work. I mean you talk about an open source ethos that's now going totally mainstream. It's not a second (mumbles) by a long shot. That's an old story. This cryptocurrency and blockchain and this new decentralized community has a mission. I've noticed a pattern, right. And you're seeing folks like yourself doing amazing work and pioneering and also the hard work. You're putting the work in. There's a mission. Take a minute to explain what the mission is. Because there are a lot of people that are aligning with this mission globally. Not just on the technical front. You mentioned this diversity and that's a good thing. What is the mission that really brings everyone together? Because that seems to be the magic that's going on here. >> Well I can't speak for other people but for me the mission is to improve life, reduce suffering, create value, create wealth in both knowledge and other things that can enable you to carry out those things. So my end game is improving life. Haven't fully baked out what that's going to be but my step now is to create wealth of value, wealth of knowledge, wealth of resources to be able to then tackle that afterwards. So it's all about-- I don't accept money. I don't take people's money. It's all self-funded. We're about creating value. The fact that I don't have any partners, I can move really quickly and I don't like to take people's money or hold people's money. I want to empower people with a tool. Or at least give them the tools so they can decide whether they want to be empowered or not. And I want to be able to just create stuff that's just going to create amazing value, user experiences, mind-blowing experiences, and just help improve things and drive technology forward. >> You know we align with that. We love that culture. We believe it's a pay it forward world. We've made our business at the Cube on paying it forward. Really appreciate you taking the time to pay it forward with us and share your content here. And I want to say congratulations for all the amazing work you've done. You've worked hard. You've made a great dent in the universe. And it's just getting started so congratulations. >> One of the best interviews I've ever done. Thank you so much. >> Thanks. Appreciate it. Take care. >> Appreciate it.

>> Announcer: Live from Midtown Manhattan. It's the CUBE. Covering Big Data New York City 2017. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media and its ecosystem sponsor. (electronic music) >> Hey, welcome back everyone, live here in New York. This is the CUBE here in Manhattan for Big Data NYC's three days of coverage. We're one day three, things are starting to settle in, starting to see the patterns out there. I'll say it's Big Data week here, in conjunction with Hadoop World, formerly known as Strata Conference, Strata-Hadoop, Strata-Data, soon to be Strata-AI, soon to be Strata-IOT. Big Data, Mike Maccaux who's the Global Big Data Practice Lead at Dell EMC. We've been in this world now for multiple years and, well, what a riot it's been. >> Yeah, it has. It's been really interesting as the organizations have gone from their legacy systems, they have been modernizing. And we've sort of seen Big Data 1.0 a couple years ago. Big Data 2.0 and now we're moving on sort of the what's next? >> Yeah. >> And it's interesting because the Big Data space has really lagged the application space. You talk about microservices-based applications, and deploying in the cloud and stateless things. The data technologies and the data space has not quite caught up. The technology's there, but the thinking around it, and the deployment of those, it seems to be a slower, more methodical process. And so what we're seeing in a lot of enterprises is that the ones that got in early, have built out capabilities, are now looking for that, how do we get to the next level? How do we provide self-service? How do we enable our data scientists to be more productive within the enterprise, right? If you're a startup, it's easy, right? You're somewhere in the public cloud, you're using cloud based API, it's all fine. But if you're an enterprise, with the inertia of those legacy systems and governance and controls, it's a different problem to solve for. >> Let's just face it. We'll just call a spade a spade. Total cost of ownership was out of control. Hadoop was great, but it was built for something that tried to be something else as it evolved. And that's good also, because we need to decentralize and democratize the incumbent big data warehouse stuff. But let's face it, Hadoop is not the game anymore, it's everything else. >> Right, yep. >> Around it so, we've seen that, that's a couple years old. It's about business value right now. That seems to be the big thing. The separation between the players that can deliver value for the customers. >> Matt: Yep. >> And show a little bit of headroom for future AI things, they've seen that. And have the cloud on premise play. >> Yep. >> Right now, to me, that's the call here. What do you, do you agree? >> I absolutely see it. It's funny, you talk to organizations and they say, "We're going cloud, we're doing cloud." Well what does that mean? Can you even put your data in the cloud? Are you allowed to? How are you going to manage that? How are you going to govern that? How are you going to secure that? So many organizations, once they've asked those questions, they've realized, maybe we should start with the model of cloud on premise. And figure out what works and what doesn't. How do users actually want to self serve? What do we templatize for them? And what do we give them the freedom to do themselves? >> Yeah. >> And they sort of get their sea legs with that, and then we look at sort of a hybrid cloud model. How do we be able to span on premise, off premise, whatever your public cloud is, in a seamless way? Because we don't want to end up with the same thing that we had with mainframes decades ago, where it was, IBM had the best, it was the fastest, it was the most efficient, it was the new paradigm. And then 10 years later, organizations realized they were locked in, there was different technology. The same thing's true if you go cloud native. You're sort of locked in. So how do you be cloud agnostic? >> How do you get locked in a cloud native? You mean with Amazon? >> Or any of them, right? >> Okay. >> So they all have their own APIs that are really good for doing certain things. So Google's TensorFlow happens to be very good. >> Yeah. Amazon EMR. >> But you build applications that are using those native APIS, you're sort of locked. And maybe you want to switch to something else. How do you do that? So the idea is to-- >> That's why Kubernetes is so important, right now. That's a very key workload and orchestration container-based system. >> That's right, so we believe that containerization of workloads that you can define in one place, and deploy anywhere is the path forward, right? Deploy 'em on prem, deploy 'em in a private cloud, public cloud, it doesn't matter the infrastructure. Infrastructure's irrelevant. Just like Hadoop is sort of not that important anymore. >> So let me get your reaction on this. >> Yeah. So Dell EMC, so you guys have actually been a supplier. They've been the leading supplier, and now with Dell EMC across the portfolio of everything. From Dell computers, servers and what not, to storage, EMC's run the table on that for many generations. Yeah, there's people nippin' at your heels like Pure, okay that's fine. >> Sure. It's still storage is storage. You got to store the data somewhere, so storage will always be around. Here's what I heard from a CXO. This is the pattern I hear, but I'll just summarize it in one conversation. And then you can give a reaction to it. John, my life is hell. I have application development investment plan, it's just boot up all these new developers. New dev ops guys. We're going to do open source, I got to build that out. I got that, trying to get dev ops going on. >> Yep. >> That's a huge initiative. I got the security team. I'm unbundling from my IT department, into a new, difference in a reporting to the board. And then I got all this data governance crap underneath here, and then I got IOT over the top, and I still don't know where my security holes are. >> Yep. And you want to sell me what? (Matt laughs) So that's the fear. >> That's right. >> Their plates are full. How do you guys help that scenario? You walk in, actually security's pretty much, important obviously you can see that. But how do you walk into that conversation? >> Yeah, it's sort of stop the madness, right? >> (laughs) That's right. >> And all of that matters-- >> No, but this is all critical. Every room in the house is on fire. >> It is. >> And I got to get my house in order, so your comment to me better not be hype. TensorFlow, don't give me this TensorFlow stuff. >> That's right. >> I want real deal. >> Right, I need, my guys are-- >> I love TensorFlow but, doesn't put the fire out. >> They just want spark, right? I need to speed up my-- >> John: All right, so how do you help me? >> So, what we'd do is, we want to complement and augment their existing capabilities with better ways of scaling their architecture. So let's help them containerize their big data workload so that they can deploy them anywhere. Let's help them define centralized security policies that can be defined once and enforced everywhere, so that now we have a way to automate the deployment of environments. And users can bring their own tools. They can bring their data from outside, but because we have intelligent centralized policies, we can enforce that. And so with our elastic data platform, we are doing that with partners in the industry, Blue Talent and Blue Data, they provide that capability on top of whatever the customer's infrastructure is. >> How important is it to you guys that Dell EMC are partnering. I know Michael Dell talks about it all the time, so I know it's important. But I want to hear your reaction. Down in the trenches, you're in the front lines, providing the value, pulling things together. Partnerships seem to be really important. Explain how you look at that, how you guys do your partners. You mentioned Blue Talent and Blue Data. >> That's right, well I'm in the consulting organization. So we are on the front lines. We are dealing with customers day in and day out. And they want us to help them solve their problems, not put more of our kit in their data centers, on their desktops. And so partnering is really key, and our job is to find where the problems are with our customers, and find the best tool for the best job. The right thing for the right workload. And you know what? If the customer says, "We're moving to Amazon," then Dell EMC might not sell any more compute infrastructure to that customer. They might, we might not, right? But it's our job to help them get there, and by partnering with organizations, we can help that seamless. And that strengthens the relationship, and they're going to purchase-- >> So you're saying that you will put the customer over Dell EMC? >> Well, the customer is number one to Dell EMC. Net promoter score is one of the most important metrics that we have-- >> Just want to make sure get on the record, and that's important, 'cause Amazon, and you know, we saw it in Net App. I've got to say, give Net App credit. They heard from customers early on that Amazon was important. They started building into Amazon support. So people saying, "Are you crazy?" VMware, everyone's saying, "Hey you capitulated "by going to Amazon." Turns out that that was a damn good move. >> That's right. >> For Kelsinger. >> Yep. >> Look at VM World. They're going to own the cloud service provider market as an arms dealer. >> Yep. >> I mean, you would have thought that a year ago, no way. And then when they did the deal, they said, >> We have really smart leadership in the organization. Obviously Michael is a brilliant man. And it sort of trickles on down. It's customer first, solve the customer's problems, build the relationship with them, and there will be other things that come, right? There will be other needs, other workloads. We do happen to have a private cloud solution with Virtustream. Some of these customers need that intermediary step, before they go full public, with a hosted private solution using a Virtustream. >> All right, so what's the, final question, so what's the number one thing you're working on right now with customers? What's the pattern? You got the stack rank, you're requests, your deliverables, where you spend your time. What's the top things you're working on? >> The top thing right now is scaling architectures. So getting organizations past, they've already got their first 20 use cases. They've already got lakes, they got pedabytes in there. How do we enable self service so that we can actually bring that business value back, as you mentioned. Bring that business value back by making those data scientists productive. That's number one. Number two is aligning that to overall strategy. So organizations want to monetize their data, but they don't really know what that means. And so, within a consulting practice, we help our customers define, and put a road map in place, to align that strategy to their goals, the policies, the security, the GDP, or the regulations. You have to marry the business and the technology together. You can't do either one in isolation. Or ultimately, you're not going to be efficient. >> All right, and just your take on Big Data NYC this year. What's going on in Manhattan this year? What's the big trend from your standpoint? That you could take away from this show besides it becoming a sprawl of you know, everyone just promoting their wares. I mean it's a big, hyped show that O'Reilly does, >> It is. >> But in general, what's the takeaway from the signal? >> It was good hearing from customers this year. Customer segments, I hope to see more of that in the future. Not all just vendors showing their wares. Hearing customers actually talk about the pain and the success that they've had. So the Barclay session where they went up and they talked about their entire journey. It was a packed room, standing room only. They described their journey. And I saw other banks walk up to them and say, "We're feeling the same thing." And this is a highly competitive financial services space. >> Yeah, we had Packsotta's customer on Standard Bank. They came off about their journey, and how they're wrangling automating. Automating's the big thing. Machine learning, automation, no doubt. If people aren't looking at that, they're dead in my mind. I mean, that's what I'm seeing. >> That's right. And you have to get your house in order before you can start doing the fancy gardening. >> John: Yeah. >> And organizations aspire to do the gardening, right? >> I couldn't agree more. You got to be able to drive the car, you got to know how to drive the car if you want to actually play in this game. But it's a good example, the house. Got to get the house in order. Rooms are on fire (laughs) right? Put the fires out, retrench. That's why private cloud's kicking ass right now. I'm telling you right now. Wikibon nailed it in their true private cloud survey. No other firm nailed this. They nailed it, and it went viral. And that is, private cloud is working and growing faster than some areas because the fact of the matter is, there's some bursting through the clouds, and great use cases in the cloud. But, >> Yep. >> People have to get the ops right on premise. >> Matt: That's right, yep. >> I'm not saying on premise is going to be the future. >> Not forever. >> I'm just saying that the stack and rack operational model is going cloud model. >> Yes. >> John: That's absolutely happening, that's growing. You agree? >> Absolutely, we completely, we see that pattern over and over and over again. And it's the Goldilocks problem. There's the organizations that say, "We're never going to go cloud." There's the organizations that say, "We're going to go full cloud." For big data workloads, I think there's an intermediary for the next couple years, while we figure out operating pulse. >> This evolution, what's fun about the market right now, and it's clear to me that, people who try to get a spot too early, there's too many diseconomies of scale. >> Yep. >> Let the evolution, Kubernetes looking good off the tee right now. Docker containers and containerization in general's happened. >> Yep. >> Happening, dev ops is going mainstream. >> Yep. >> So that's going to develop. While that's developing, you get your house in order, and certainly go to the cloud for bursting, and other green field opportunities. >> Sure. >> No doubt. >> But wait until everything's teed up. >> That's right, the right workload in the right place. >> I mean Amazon's got thousands of enterprises using the cloud. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> It's not like people aren't using the cloud. >> No, they're, yeah. >> It's not 100% yet. (laughs) >> And what's the workload, right? What data can you put there? Do you know what data you're putting there? How do you secure that? And how do you do that in a repeatable way. Yeah, and you think cloud's driving the big data market right now. That's what I was saying earlier. I was saying, I think that the cloud is the unsubtext of this show. >> It's enabling. I don't know if it's driving, but it's the enabling factor. It allows for that scale and speed. >> It accelerates. >> Yeah. >> It accelerates... >> That's a better word, accelerates. >> Accelerates that horizontally scalable. Mike, thanks for coming on the CUBE. Really appreciate it. More live action we're going to have some partners on with you guys. Next, stay with us. Live in Manhattan, this is the CUBE. (electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Voiceover: Live from the Javits Center in New York City It's theCube covering Inforum 2017 Brought to you by Infor. >> Welcome back to theCube's coverage of Inforum. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my cohost Dave Vellante. We're joined by Martine Cadet. She is the Infor Vice President and head of the Education Alliance Program. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Martine: Thank you for having me. >> So let's start out by talking about what the Education Alliance Program is and how it came about, it's not very old. >> No, it's not old. Actually, we'll be three years in September. The Education Alliance Program came about, oh gosh, it was an idea that Charles Phillips, our CEO had a while back, he was looking about, how do we actually get more talents within Infor. How do we get people to even know, quite frankly, who Infor is, and drive some more market awareness. How do we make sure people are excited about our products and solutions long term, right. So, the future customers, the future partners, hopefully the future employees as well. So, through that what we started to do was, he created this position and luckily I was hired into the role. And we've built this program where we partner with colleges, universities, as well as nonprofit organizations. We invest in them to invest in their students. So, essentially the same products and solutions and technologies that our customers here are basically learning about and paying for, we train students on. So, through their professors they learn hands on immersive technologies that businesses run on each and every single day and then hopefully they'll get excited and they'll want to come to work for Infor, one of our customers or one of our partners. And actually, they can actually, probably work for any IT company or any company in general because ERP is so pervasive. >> So, have you seen, you said this started a few years ago. >> Martine: Yes. >> Are you seeing results yes? >> Yes, we are starting to see results. We are actually really, really excited. So, we've hired I believe 24 students at Infor. Our partners are starting to hire students as well. In fact, we had somebody hire one of the graduates just last week and we had our first talent fair on Sunday, which was exceedingly well attended, so there's been a ton of excitement. We have, I believe there are about 12 partners who are in our formal Partner In Education Program where we actually bring the partners in, they engage in the classroom and the training and have hands on experiences with the students themselves. And the students get to shadow them in real life situations. So, things like consulting, which are pretty hard. I mean in IT part of what we are challenged with is SAP and Oracle and Infor, we all seem to hire from the same talent pool and the folks basically go from company to company to company. >> Hundred people, 99 seats. >> Yes, thank you. And what you see is customers want somebody who's got 20 years of deep industry expertise and so we get it. But you need an opportunity to actually start building that industry expertise so what we've been doing is actually creating that pathway for the students to be able to do that and our partners and our customers are actually much more open to that then they were before. So, we're starting to see that pipeline truly grow. By the September of this year, I believe we'll have close to a hundred students who've taken our first series of implementation consulting courses at QNE, which we launched this winter. So, that's one of the biggest things that we've done. As well as we've got our Center of Excellence that we've also opened up at City University of New York. So, we've got a practical experience course, we've got students who are also going very deep around analytics and just kind of building from there. And I think the last time we had spoken last year, I think we had about 16 or less institutions. We've grown to 33 institutions worldwide. We have eight, I believe in Amia, seven in the APAC area and they represent over 400 colleges and universities. So, it's been, it's been really exciting. >> So Martine, can you frame the parameters of the type of candidates that you are recruiting? How do you find them, what are the requirements? >> It's a combination. So, it can be anywhere from a business student who's actually possibly thinking of being in finance who hasn't even thought about a career in IT or technology. But those are the ones with a business mindset that we actually want to get interested because they will make amazing consultants over time. To somebody who's transitioning from roles, right, so maybe they've worked for a couple years in an industry and they've decided, you know, "I really don't want to do the marketing piece," or, "I'm burnt out on the finance piece "and I want to do something different." We have them in our continuing education courses as well. And they bring a very different view to that course. Because they're now learning those practical skills for being either a consultant or a sales person or or whatever they've actually decided to go about and do. And our employers actually get way excited about them as well because they are able to think not just as a technologist or not just as a business person, but within that kind of gray area which is where the industry is going, you have to know a little of all of it in order to be supremely effective. Especially on this consulting side. >> So, big theme, AI at the show, the hard question, median income in 1999 United States was $55,000 dollars, it's now around $50,000 dollars. Man versus machine, right. Now humans have always been replaced by machines, but it's the first time, really in history, that it's cognitive functions that are being replaced. Thoughts, I mean many people believe, I think they're correct, that education is the answer to that gap. Education, creativity, the combinations of those things are what will help solve that problem. Your thoughts on just that topic in general and what role education plays. >> I think what we're doing around AI is so exciting and it's just amazing to work at a company, one, that has named AI Coleman after the women who were in Hidden Figures, but from an education perspective I think you're spot on. I think the only way that we can actually continue to compete as a nation is if we make sure that we fix the education problem and I'm really excited to work for an organization where we're taking a very active role in doing that. So, by changing the model of having people just sit in a classroom learning something where there's really no context for how it's being used in business and it's more about what's being taught today for the roles that are today. What we're trying to do is imbed this kind of thought, leadership into the classroom, open the students' perspectives on what's possible and get them ready to be thoughtful about, okay, how do we embrace technology? How do you think it differently? How do you become agile? Because a lot of the jobs that are here today weren't here when I graduated, right so, how do we change the idea of what we go to school for and what we get educated on that we are actually producing people who are able to be thoughtful and to merge and to find different ways to use technology to come up with different pathways that have not been thought about before. We've never thought that way, right? >> And to evolve as the jobs change. So, we're preparing people for jobs that don't exist yet and they need to versatile in their own approach to how-- >> And excited about it, right? Not be fearful. >> And not fearful. >> Exactly, not be fearful, yeah. >> Well I wanted to congratulate you too because you were recently honored by Network Journal as one of the 25 most influential black women in business. Congratulations! >> Thank you. >> What does that mean to you especially when you think about young black women coming up in business, in technology, and in other industries, at a time where, there's questions about really how much opportunity... >> It's surreal, it was exceedingly humbling. It's on the backs of an amazing team. Who has done a lot of work, I've got some really great people behind me that I push really hard and I am very grateful for. I also have an exceedingly strong family. Who, when I was getting the award I made the comment that I don't feel like I've achieved anything that my parents have achieved, my parents are physicians. They came from Haiti, they came to the U.S. to give us better opportunities and they've done that. And that's what drives me, and in terms of people of color, we've got such a long way to go, but we've come so far. And I just wish that when you look at the history of the U.S. and the world, slavery was not that long ago in the grand scheme of things, and every time the U.S. takes two steps forward, sometimes you take a step back and it might feel like we're taking a step back right now, but if you stay focused on moving forward we will get there. And we will get further because doors are opening and people are doing amazing things and we need to do, I think, a better job when we are in positions where we are more visible in making sure we open doors for other people and not being apologetic about doing so. Because I think there's coded language sometimes that you hear about on, "Well, I can't have a diverse pipeline," "Oh, that means I'm lowering standards," that's bull, quite frankly. There are plenty of people looking for opportunities perhaps they don't fit the profiles that have always put in place, but when we talk about technology and careers the one thing we've talked about and we know is things are ever evolving and changing, and there is no one set profile or standard. So you might find that this kid who's actually been out there doing very different things in the community and just showing themselves as a leadership person in that community is the person that you need in your org. But because we're not having sometimes those conversations across our very safe ponds and we kind of stay with the same people a lot of times, it makes it hard to make those connections. But if we just start talking to each other a little bit more and the ones of us who are actually in these roles be unapologetic about making sure we're having those conversations and opening up doors, I think things will continue to move forward. >> So, what is your advice to companies in technology and in other industries about getting those people, who as you say, do not quite fit the profile, the standard profile of what they think they're looking for but that do add new perspectives and new ideas and new insights into companies. I mean, what would your advice be to employers? Do they need to start an Education Alliance Program? Is that the beginning? >> That can be part of it, but they just, they need to stop being corporate and stop being political. I mean, I don't know how else to say it. Change is hard, and you can do all of the right things, but if a hiring manager is still going to hire everybody who looks just like them then it's not going to change. And I don't think people do it all the time thoughtfully. It just kind of happens. You have to make the change, it has to come from the top. It also has to come from within the ranks. You have to have the tough conversations. It has to be an embedded part of what companies say they actually value and then they actually have to back it up. 'Cause lot of times people talk about it, but it doesn't come with the, "Okay, well I'm going to give you the approvals." Or, "I'm going to mandate that, yes, "when you have 20 open positions "that you actually have a diverse pipeline." Not a, "I'm going to set aside X number of seats "for one type of person," but you should at least interview a diverse pipeline. Perhaps you'll be surprised in what you see come out. We don't thoughtfully, in general, do that, and I think that's one of the key areas companies can be thoughtful about, and then the other thing is actually looking for talent outside of the same five schools or the same five places that people go to. It's getting out of your comfort zone. >> Can we tell the story, just to get it on record, of Coleman and how it was named, how it was announced this morning? Because not everybody in our audience was watching. >> Okay, so I hope I do it justice. (laughs) I was one of the people in the audience, but essentially for the folks who hopefully have seen Hidden Figures the movie, and it was about the women who were monumental, fundamental, the reason why we were able to make it to the moon. So, when we were having issues and we weren't sure if we had all our calculations in place and they were really thinking, okay, can we do this? Are we going to not be the first ones to get there? Our astronaut said, "Okay, I need this woman. "I need Miss Coleman to actually check these calculations. "If she says these are right, then we're good. "If not, I'm not going." >> Goosebumps, Martine. >> Right? That was amazing, that was amazing. And our CEO had the foresight, the idea, and the chutzpah I should say, (laughs) to decide, okay, when we're thinking about AI and we're thinking about visionaries, we're thinking about what we need to quantum leap what's happening in technology, we're thinking about having that level of insight and intelligence, that is who he wanted to name the product after, and I was telling my team, you know, I was tearing up, like, I'm so proud to work in an organization where our CEO would stand up unapologetically and say, this is how I'm going to name my product and this will be, you know, go down for quite some time. And the family was there which was so cool. And we had a standing applause, the first standing applause in the room. So it was amazing. >> Well it's not often you get a standing ovation at a tech conference. >> At a product announcement. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So I want to also just quickly talk about, piggy back off of this, and that is the culture of Infor. And you know, the things that we keep hearing about. It's a culture of learning, a culture of education, a culture that really starts at the top of bringing in different perspectives and also understanding the importance of, yes, of naming a new product after this black woman who toiled in obscurity and really was a hero of getting us to the moon, how do you create that culture? I mean and how to do you kind of keep it going? >> I think it comes down to leadership. I think it comes down to people you hire. It has to be every level of the organization. I think Charles does set the tone by doing things like this as well as other things like having an Education Alliance Program, quite frankly. And the way our program is scheduled we don't look just to the Harvards or the Princetons. We're looking to partner with community colleges that have amazing talent that possibly did not have the same access, but they still have the same possibility. So I think doing all of that is how you create the culture. Then making sure it is embedded in the people that you continue to bring into the organization and giving them the time and the freedom to have these sorts of conversations and embed it into the work that they do. So we've got creative people, like Hook and Loop, that in itself, so cool. How many IT companies said, oh, you know what, I'm going to bring over some artists, I'm going to bring over some film producers, that's the kind of thinking that gets you to diversity. >> Great, Martine thanks so much. It's been a pleasure having you on the show. >> Thank you so much. Thank you guys so much for the time, I appreciate it. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante, we will have more from Inforum after this. (upbeat music)

>>Ed, welcome to the Cube. All right, Thanks guys. Good >>To see you. Thanks. Good to see you as well, >>John. Okay. Ed runs Biz dev for Cloudera, Industry veteran, worked at VMware. Ed, gotten to know you the past year. You guys have been doing great. What a difference one year makes, right? I mean, absolutely. Tell us, just let's start it off with what's happened in a year. I mean, you know, here at Hadoop World Cloudera, the ecosystem. Just give us your view of your perspective of what a difference one year makes. >>I think more than double is probably the, the fastest answer I could give you, which is, I mean, even looking around at the conference, it's, it itself is literally double from what it was last year. But in terms of the number of partners that have entered the market and really decided to work with, with Cloudera, but also in general, just the, the, the, the scope and size of the ecosystem itself, investors from every angle. You've got companies really well-branded marquee companies like Oracle coming into the mix and saying, Hey, Hadoop is the, is the real deal and we need to invest here. Marquee companies like IBM and EMC also doing the same. And of course, you know, as a result, you know, lots and lots of customer interest in the technology. And Cloudera's been fortunate to have been in the market early and really made the right investments with the right team. And so we're able to serve a lot of those customer needs. So it's been really, it's been a fantastic year for the company. >>So we had a great day yesterday with Cloudera. We had Kirk on, we had AER on twice, who by the way went viral with his modern warfare review, but we had Jeff Harmar Baer on, so we had pretty much the brain trust, Mike and Michaelson. Yep. The brain trust, the Cloudera. So we talked about the risk factors for Cloudera. Obviously you guys are number one, you've been kind of had untouchable lead and then all of a sudden boom competition. So Mike talked about that. So the strategy and the product side, they addressed, you're on the, the biz dev side, so you know, when you were number one, everyone wants to stand next to you and your phone rings off the hook from tier one partners all the way down to anyone's just getting in the business. Who wants a big data strategy on the execution. Now, what are you guys doing right now to, to continue your lead on the, on the sales marketing biz dev? I mean, I know you get the partner program, but what's your strategy for Phil, how to continue >>In that lead? The, the beautiful thing is honestly, our strategy hasn't changed at all. And I know that might sound counterintuitive, but we started off with a, a really crisp vision. And we want, what we wanna do is create a very attractive platform for partners. And, and, you know, one of the core, you know, sort of corporate strategy, Edix for Quadera is a recognition that the end of the day, the platform itself, Hado is an input into a solution. And Quadra is not likely to deliver the complete solution to market. Instead, it's going to be companies like Dell, for example, or it's going to be companies on the, on the ISV side like Informatica, which you're gonna deliver not only a base platform, but also the, the, the, the BI or analytics or data integration technologies on top. And as a result, what we've done is we've really focused in on creating a very attractive platform to vendors to build on. >>And one of the, I think one of the biggest misconceptions that I'm excited about that, you know, we are now having an opportunity to correct and that's a result, frankly, of the additional competitive dynamic. And I think the, the Wiki bond team pointed that out rather pointedly in their most recent articles. But is, is the sort of the lack of understanding around what CDH is and also the, some of the other investments that we're making to create a truly attractive platform for vendors to build on. And you know, I mean, I think you, you may have familiarity with exactly what CDH is, but for the sake of the audience here, what I'd like to do is say, say, first off, you know, first and foremost this is a hundred percent free in Apache license open source. But more importantly, it is everything that we build on the platform, meaning it's completely full featured. >>We put all of that out in the open. There's no turbo version of Hadoop that we've got hiding in the closet for our, our four pay customers. We're absolutely making investment. But I think, you know, when you think about it from the vendor perspective, and that's my bias. So I always think about, I treat all of the potential partners as really my customer. And when you think about it from that perspective, the things that matter most to vendors, number one, transparency. They need to understand exactly what our business model is, where we plan to make money and where we plan, don't make money. They need to know what we're really good at developing and what we're not so good at developing. And sort of where we draw the, the boundaries around that investment. I think, you know, a testament to that, for example, is tomorrow we're hosting a partner summit. >>So after this event, there are gonna be over 60 individuals, but they max two per per vendor. So we're gonna have over 35 vendors attending this event. And what they're gonna hear from is our entire management team is as deeply as we can and as open as we can. And you know, it, it's, it's, it's funny, you know, I think I saw this article in Forbes the other day about Cloudera. It was this, the title of the article was something like Spies Like Us. And it it, and it, what it highlighted was that some, some competitor of Cloudera had actually hired a, a, a competitive intelligence agency to go on and, and try to engage with, you know, and, and try to learn more about Cloudera. And so they went on to Cora, which we have a lot of active engineers on Cora. And they, you know, they went out and they asked a bunch of product related questions to our to, to someone on Cora. And our engineers immediately responded and they started being very transparent, completely open to what, what they're building and why they're building it. And the article basically summarized to say, Hey, you know what, you know, clearly some people aren't all that sophisticated in figuring out, you know, who they're talking to. And it's really important to do that. And they got the absolute wrong conclusion. Our engineers are actually encouraged and in fact rewarded for being extremely transparent in the market because we believe that it's transparency will ultimately allow us to be that platform vendor. >>And that's what attracts me. Jeff Hummer Bucker, who's active on core as well, he's recruiting there too. So you guys are out engaging the community. Yeah. So just let me just review, cuz this is cool that you're addressing this because Hortonworks and others, and I'll say the name Hortonworks has been pumping up the PR and creating a lot of noise around open and kind of Depositioning Cloudera. So you guys are completely open, a hundred percent Hadoop, open source, everything you build in, in every way, in every way. You have engineers building core, you've got tools and all the other stuff is being built in Cloudera then contributing into the community. >>Actually it's the other way around. We build it and the community@apache.org. So all of our technology is built@apache.org. It's, it's developed there. It's, it's, it's initially shared there. And then we have another team inside our company that pulls down bits from apache.org and then assembles them and integrates them. So it's really, it's a really key thing. And there's no, we do, we have no bits that we don't develop@apache.org that are part of cdh. So there, I mean there can be no mistake that everything that that is in CDH is everything we got. >>So CDH is free. >>It is free >>And every it's open source. It's open you >>Charge enterprise edition. That's the only thing that's different you guys charge >>Yeah. Which is your management console, right. >>Management >>Suite and all kinds of >>The tools. And that's not free and that's not open source. That's correct. Just to be clear. Yep. But so AER took us yesterday through, I don't know, half a dozen probably open source projects and then the one is the, the management console. And that's what you charge for, that's where you're gonna make money? >>Yeah. We, we manufacture, essentially we manufacture two products, but we sell one. So we manufacture the Quadera distribution, including Apache Duke, that's free. It's free. And then we all in open source and built it Apache and, and really heavily tested and well documented and, and, and well integrated. And then we also manufacture quadera Enterprise, which includes support and indemnities and warranties for that full featured CDH product and also includes the Quadra management suite. And >>That's a subscription. >>And that's a subscription. And so customers can, can run cdh, they can then buy and license Cloudera Enterprise and then someday if they decide they don't need Cloud Air Enterprise for whatever reason, if they're, if their team are scripting wizards and they've decided that they, you know, they don't need the extra opportunity for being able to track all of the things that Cloudier Enterprise allows 'em to, they can step off of cloud enterprise and continue to use full feature to do as they see >>Fit. So take an example of one of your partners that you announced this week. NetApp NetApp's gonna package your cdh CDH and the subscription Correct. To their, their customers. And then they're gonna let their channel either, you know, they'll pre bule it or do a reference architecture, you'll get paid for that subscription that's bundled. That's correct. Will make money off of its filers. Yes. And the customer gets a package solution. >>Exactly. Right. And in fact, that's another important thing that you know, is probably worth discussing, which is our go to market model. I don't know if you guys had a chance to talk with anyone yesterday on that, but I'm responsible for our channel strategy and one of the key things that we've agreed to as a, as a company is that we really are gonna go to market through channel partners. Yeah. >>We covered sgi, that was a great announcement. >>Yep, a >>Hundred percent >>As, as close as we can get. Okay. I mean that is our, he's >>Still doing the direct deals. You still have that belly to belly sales force because it's still early, right? So there's a mix of direct and indirects, not a pure >>Indirect, but as, and that's only, that's only as we're able to, until we're able to ramp up our partners fully, in which case we really want our, the current team that is working belly to belly to really support our partners. >>So all so VMware like, but I I wanted to ask >>You VMware, like NetApp, like very similar. >>Yes. Very, very NetApp. Like NetApp probably 75%, you know. Exactly. What are the similarities and differences with VMware in, in the ecosystem? You know it well, >>I do know it well. Yeah. I spent several years working at VMware and you know, I think, I mean the first and most obvious difference is that when you think, when I think about platform software in general, you know, there are a few different flavors of platform. One of the things that makes Hadoop very unique, very unique relative to other platforms is that it, not only is it Apache license, but it really is, it's dependent upon other external innovators to, to create the entire full value of the ecosystem. So, or, or you know, of the solution, right? So unlike for example, so like, let's take a platform like everyone's familiar with like Apple iTunes, right? What happens is Apple creates the platform and they put it kind of in the middle on top of and behind the scenes is the innovator, the app builder, he builds it, he publishes it on Apple, and then Apple controls all access to the >>Customer. Yep. >>That's not adu, right? Right. Let's take VMware or Red Hat for example. So in that case, they publish a platform they own and control the, the absolute structure and boundaries of what that platform is. And then on top of that application vendors build and then they deliver to the, the customer. But you know, at the end of the day, the, you know, the relationship really is, you know, from that external innovator straight down, and there's no, there's, you know, there's no way for them to really modify the platform. And you take kadu, which is a hundred percent Apache licensed to open source, and you really, you really open up the opportunity for vendors to take ADU as an input into their system and then deliver it straight to their customers or for customers themselves to say, I want straight up vanilla Hadoop, I'm gonna go this way and I'm gonna add on my own be app of applications. So you're, we're seeing all sorts of variants right now in the market. We're seeing software as a service being delivered that's based on Hadoop. There was a great announcement a few weeks ago from a company named Tidemark, previously known as Per Ferry, and they're taking all of cdh. They're, but they're, the customer doesn't know that they're, and what they're doing is they're delivering software as a, as a service based on adu. >>Yeah. So I mean, you know, we are psyched that you're clearing this up because obviously we're seeing, we saw all that stuff, but I really think that indirect strategy as a home run, I'm said it when we talked about the SGI thing, and it's accelerates you guys, you enable, but you know, channels is an interesting business. I mean the, you have to have pure transparency as you mentioned, but they need comp, people need confidence and, and they don't, they worry about competition. So channel conflict is always the big issue, right? Right. Is Cloudera gonna compete with us? So talk that, talk us through that, that strategy. So obviously the market's growing, new solutions are coming around the corner, These guys wanna make money. I mean channel, it's all about, you know, what have you done for me today? >>Right. That, that is exactly right. And you know what, that's, that's why we decided on the channel strategy specifically around our product is because we recognize that each and every single potential channel partner of ours can actually innovate themselves on top of and create differentiation. And we're not an obstacle to that process. So we provide our platform as an input and we're capable of managing that platform, but ultimately creating differentiation is all in the hands of our partners and we're there to help, but it gives them wide latitudes. So take for example, the differences between Dell and NetApp solution, they are very different reference architectures leveraging the exact same platform. >>Yeah. And they have to make money. I mean, the money making side of it is, you know, people have kind of, don't really talk about that, but, you know, channel partners loyalty is all about who can help them make cash. Right. Right. Exactly. What are you hearing there in terms of the ecosystem? Has the channels Bess and the partnerships or the more as size, what's the profile of your, of your partners? I mean, can you give us the breakdown of Sure. We have what you look like from Dell. We know Dell and NetApp, but they're gear guys. But, >>So a big part of our strategy is to work with IHVs and then Ihv resellers. So you're talking about companies like Dell, like sgi, like NetApp, for example, independent hardware manufacturers. Another part of our strategy though, and a key, a key requirement from our customers is to work with a whole variety of ISVs, particularly in the data management space. So you've got really marquee companies in the database space like IBM's Netezza or Terradata. You've got in companies like Informatica and Talent, you've got companies on the BI side, like Micro Strategy and Tableau. These kinds of technologies are currently in play at our customers that have made substantial investments. And ultimately they want to be able to continue to leverage them with the data platform, whichever data platform that they end up choosing. So we invest considerably there. A big part of that has been our Qera Connect partner program. >>It's an opportunity for us to help the customer to understand which technologies work and work well with, with our platform. It's also an opportunity for us to engage directly and assist the vendor. So one of the things that we created as part of that program is first off, immediate and absolute discounted access to any part of our training. Second, lots of free information, access to our world class knowledge base, access to our support team, direct access to our support team. The, the vendors also get access to a developer portal that would created specifically for them. So if, if you think about it this way, Hadoop gets built@apache.org, but solutions don't get built@apache.org. Right? So what we're really trying to help our vendors do is be able to develop their solutions by having real clear visibility to the API level points of Hadoop. They're not necessarily interested in, in trying to figure out how, how MR two works or, or contributing code to that. >>But they absolutely are interested in figuring out how to run and execute their software on top of a do. So when I think about the things that matter to create an attractive platform, and at the end of the day, that's what we're really trying to do, first and foremost is transparency, right? Second really ultimately is really clear visibility to the APIs and the documentation of that platform so that there's no ambiguity that the, the vendor, this is the user in this case, it's building a solution, can absolutely absorb all of that content really cleanly. And then ultimately, you know, I think it's customers, right? Users of the technology. And I think our download numbers are, they're, they're, there's something we're proud of. >>We, we are, we're hearing good feedback. I mean, the feedback we hear from folks is, yeah, I love how they take away the complexity of handling versions and whatnot. So, you know, I think totally is a great way, The CDH is a great bundle. You know, the questions that we have for you is what are you hearing about the other products, the ones you're actually selling? Does that create the lock in? So that's something that we asked Elmer directly, you know, is that the, is that the lock in and what happens when the deployments get so big? You know, >>I mean, the way, I >>Don't really see an issue there, but that's what people are afraid of. I mean, that's kind of the, it's more of fear. I mean, some people can use that fear and, and >>Play against. I think, I think what we've seen in other markets is that management tools are ultimately interchangeable. And the only way that we're gonna retain a customer is by out innovating the competition on the management side, the lock in, the lock in component, as you will, is not really part of our business model. It's very difficult to achieve with an Apache licensed platform and a management suite that sits on outside of that, that licensed artifact. So ultimately, if we don't owe innovate, we're gonna lose. So we're working on the innovation and that's, >>How's the hiring go? Oh, go ahead. >>I, I had a, I wanted to come back to that. You mentioned download numbers. Can you share the numbers >>With the others? I can't, I can't share them publicly, but what I can say is that they've been on an incredible trajectory. Okay. That, and what we've seen is month to month growth rates, every single month we continue to see really significant growth rates. >>And then I, I had a follow up question on, you talked about the, the partner program. How do you manage all those partners? How do you prioritize them? I mean, the, the hardware vendors, it's pretty easy. There's a few big whales, but the, the ISVs, they're, I mean, your phone, like John said, must be ringing off the hook. How do you juggle that and, and can you do it better than VMware, for example? >>Well, we do it, we handle the, the influx of partner interest in two ways. One, we've been relatively structured with the Quadra Connect partner program, and we make real investments there. So we have dedicated folks that are there to help. We have our engineering team that is actually feeding inputs, and we're, we're leveraging some of the same resources that we provide to our customers and feeding those directly to our partners as well. So that's one way that we handle it. But the other way, frankly, is, I mean, customers help here having access to and, and a real customer population, they help you set priorities pretty quickly. And so we're able to understand what we track in inside of our systems, which, which technologies our customers use. So we know, for example, what percentage of our customer base has has SaaS installed, and we'd like to use that with a, do we know which percentage of our customer base is currently running on Red Hat and which is not. So having core visibility, that helps us to prioritize. >>How about incentives? I mean, obviously channel businesses as, like I said, very fickle people, you know, you know the channel business, I spent, you know, almost a decade in, in HP's channel organization and you know, you have to provide soft dollars. There's a lot of kind of blocking and tackling. You guys are clearly building out that tier one with the SGIs of the world and other vendors, and then get the partner connect program for kinda everyone else who's gonna grow up into a tier one. Yeah. Training, soft dollars incentives. You guys have that going yet, or is the >>Roadmap? We do. And in fact, you know, in addition to the sort of more wide publicized relationships you see with companies like Dell and Cloudera, we're actually building a very successful network of independent ours. And the VAs in general. What we do is we prioritize and select ours based on the top level relationships that we have, because that really helps them to hone in. They've got validation from, for, for example, someone that sells resells. SGI is an organization that now is heard really loud and clear from sgi the, the specific platform configurations that they're gonna represent to their customers, and they ultimately wanna represent them directly. And how we make investments is we're, I mean, the investments we're making ultimately in our sales org, I'm gonna lose the word direct from that conversation because our sales org is being built to help our partners succeed. And I think that's where you're, >>The end game is to go completely indirect and have all your support go into managing that channel. What, what's the mix of revenue generation from your partners? Obviously as a, you know, with sgi they have pre-built channels that you're funneling in, you got NetApp and they're wrapping their products and services around it. How much is services and how much is a solution specifically? Do you have any visibility or a feel for that at this >>Point? I mean, services relative to, You mean for Cloudera particularly, or for our >>Partner? No, for the, for the part. I mean, if I'm a partner, I'm like, Hey, okay, I'm gonna use cdh. I'm on bundles. I don't mind paying you a wholesale if I'm gonna be able to throw off more cash on, you know, deployment and cloud and services, et cetera. And or if I'm a product manufacturer, a product, a solution I fund you in. I need to have that step >>Up a absolutely great question. So depending upon the partner we're dealing with, they like to either monetize or generate their revenue in different ways. So for example, NetApp, NetApp is a company that has very limited services, and their, their focus is a business is really on delivering hardware and software configured together. And they, they rely heavily on a services channel to fulfill, you take in, in contrast to a company like, for example, Dell, which has a very successful services business and really is excited about having service offerings around Hadoop. So it depends upon the company. But when we talk about our VAR channel in particular, one of the things that's a, in an internal acronym, but I'll share it publicly here. We, we call our, our supervisors and what makes them super and why, why we've selected the, the, the organizations that we are selecting right now to be our bar is that they not only can fulfill orders for hardware and software, particularly data management or infrastructure software, but they also have a services team on hand because we recognize that there is a services opportunity with every Hadoop deployment. And we want our partners to have that. So as an organization, we're structuring our, our services staff to facilitate and enable our partners not to be sold >>Directly. Okay. So that's the follow up that I had tomorrow when the partners ask, Okay, what do you want to be when you're really growing up? Is it services, is it software? >>Is it Carter is a software company, Crewing through, >>Oh, er we kind of got ett, well, he didn't say it, but we said it's a operating system. Yeah. >>So given that, so given that, I mean, you can make money on services, right? People need services. Okay, great. >>And partners will make that money for >>Us. And, and you know, early on you, you had to do some of that and you're, you've been very clear about where it's going. It's hard to make money in software when you're given all the software away for free. Well, >>We're not giving all >>The software. I know you've got that piece now, but, but here's my question. As ADU goes into the enterprise, which is clearly doing, is that that whole bundling, like what you're doing with NetApp is that really ultimately how you're gonna start to, to monetize and, and successfully monetize your software, >>Is by pushing it through >>Yeah. Packaging and that bundling that solution, in other words, our enterprise customer is gonna be more receptive to that solution package than say the, the fridge that has been using Hadoop for the last >>Two or three years. I think there's no question about it. If you, if you look at what Quadra Enterprise does, I don't know if, if you've had a chance to attend any of the sessions, maybe where Quadra Enterprise is, is currently being demonstrated. >>We just had Alex Williams as about on the air. Did a review, >>Okays >>Been going good and impressed with it? >>Yeah, there's no question about it. And I, I don't, and Alex probably hasn't seen the new version that, you know, our team is working on and it's, you know, quietly working on in the background. Incredible, incredible developments in, And that's really a function of when you have direct access to so many customers and you're getting so much input and feedback and they're the kinds of access to the kinds of customers we ultimately wanna serve. So real enterprises, what you get is really fast innovation from a really talented team that knows to do well. I mean, we are years ahead on the management side. Absolutely. Years ahead. And you know, I, so I was a guy who worked at VMware for several years, and I can tell you that while the hypervisor itself was, was a core component to VMware success, the monetization strategy was very squarely around vCenter. Yeah. Yes. Out. And we're not ignorant to that. Yeah. >>You can learn a lot from your VMware experience cause absolutely. The, the market changed significantly. And, you know, >>There were free hypervisors available all of a sudden. VMware itself had a free hypervisor. We had, we had VMware server and we had also our VMware player products, right? And those were all free. And they were very good technology. They were the best available in the market for free. And they were better, in my opinion, they were better than anything else. Open or not. No, our time >>Too, since still >>Are, they were, they, they were, they were superior products in every way. But yet how VMware was successful was recognizing that in the interest of running a production environment with an sola, you need management software. And they've also built the best management software. And there's no question that we understand that strategy and >>A phenomenal ecosystem. I mean, there's the >>Similarities, right? They did. And you, and the, and the ecosystem was in, in large part predicated on transparency act, very clear access to the APIs and a willingness to help partners be successful with those APIs. And ultimately drawing a very tight box about what the company wanted to do and didn't want to do. >>I mean, look, you're not, you're not gonna lose friends when you make people money. That's my philosophy, right? I agree. So when you're in that business where you can come in and enable a channel and have options on your growth strategy, which you do, I mean, you can say, Okay, bundling, I can go, you know, I can have this sold direct, or at least as long as you've got the options, you can grow with that market. So, you know, again, the, it's a money making opportunity for the partnerships, but there's >>More than that, right? Because you mentioned Apple, iTunes, Oracle's another example. And the way you make money with Apple and the way you make money with Oracle is different than the way you make money with VMware and presumably Cloudera. >>Yeah, I mean, our strategy is, if you make this base platform easier to install, more reliable, and you make it ultimately, you know, really rock solid from an integration standpoint, more people are gonna use it. So what happens when more people use it? First thing that happens is more solu, it's out there. So it's more solutions get built. When more solutions get built, then you see more clusters get developed. When more clusters are out there, they start to move into production. And then they, they need an sla when they need an sla, Cloudera and Enterprise gets purchased. But along that path, when those solutions got built, guess what else happened? More cloud units got sold, more servers got sold, more networking. Gear got sold, more services got created. You get, you get ultimately more operating systems got sold, more databases, got data into them, more BI clients got created. The ecosystem is deep and rich, and a lot of people stand to make money hop >>In people. The water's great. >>What about, what about support? Okay, so, you know, the other guys are saying, We're just gonna make money on support. I mean support, You guys still are doing support, right? I mean, you're selling >>Support. There's no question. Quad Enterprise contains two things, right? The management suite and support this is, this is not uncomplicated technology and having a world class support team is of value and customers do want to pay for that value. But we, we believe that support in and of itself is not enough. And that ultimately, when you wanna deliver an sla, being able to call when you have a problem is the wrong approach. You want to be proactive and understand the problem well in advance of it actually occurring. That's really important. When, for example, if you're a customer, a lot of our customers have a data pipeline that >>They, they're building out basically. I mean they're, it's, it's new and emerging. So they're building out, It's not just support. They need other tools. >>Yeah. And it building out I think is an understatement for some, where some of our customers are. I mean, when you have a thousand node cluster that you're operating Yeah, Yeah. To, that's mission critical to your business. I don't think that's building out anymore. I think that's an investment in a technology that's mission critical. And what you wanna see when you have a mission critical technology is you wanna know early and often when a problem may emerge. Not, Oh, oh my gosh, we have a problem now I need to go, you know, phone a friend, phone a friend is, is kind of a last resort. We offer that. But what we really do is, and that's the, that's the beau, That's why we don't decouple our support from our management suite. It's not about phone a friend. It's about understanding the operation of your cluster the entire way through 24. >>And the other op the other thing that people don't talk about in the support is that with open source, a lot of support gets handled in the community as well. So like That's right. So in a way, you're already pre cannibalized with the community >>By us and by others. Absolutely. But you, you'll never see to that Forbes article I referenced earlier. You will never, you will not see our, our engineers are not trained to withhold information and under any circumstances to anyone free or paying. Yeah. This is about getting, You >>Don't wanna hold back your business. I mean, you have nothing to hide. It's open rights. >>Open source. It's open. And we're here to help. We're here to help. Whether you're paying us or not, >>This is value to that anticipatory >>Remediation. Yeah. That's what you're packaging and clearing up the air. Great. Great cube guest, you're awesome on the cube. Gonna have you more on because great to get the info out there. Really impressed with the channel strategy. Love the love the growth strategy, the cloud air. You guys are really impressive. I'm really, really impressed to see that you guys got everything pumping on all cylinders, Kirk, and you are cranking out on the business execution. We're in the team playing this chest mask open. Perfect. So great. Congratulations. Great. Thanks. You guys just in the financing. >>Oh, thank you as >>Well. Hey, Ed from Cloudera, clearing it up here inside the cube. We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back with more video. >>Thanks guys. All right.