>> Announcer: Live from Midtown Manhattan. It's the CUBE. Covering Big Data New York City 2017. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media and its ecosystem sponsor. (electronic music) >> Hey, welcome back everyone, live here in New York. This is the CUBE here in Manhattan for Big Data NYC's three days of coverage. We're one day three, things are starting to settle in, starting to see the patterns out there. I'll say it's Big Data week here, in conjunction with Hadoop World, formerly known as Strata Conference, Strata-Hadoop, Strata-Data, soon to be Strata-AI, soon to be Strata-IOT. Big Data, Mike Maccaux who's the Global Big Data Practice Lead at Dell EMC. We've been in this world now for multiple years and, well, what a riot it's been. >> Yeah, it has. It's been really interesting as the organizations have gone from their legacy systems, they have been modernizing. And we've sort of seen Big Data 1.0 a couple years ago. Big Data 2.0 and now we're moving on sort of the what's next? >> Yeah. >> And it's interesting because the Big Data space has really lagged the application space. You talk about microservices-based applications, and deploying in the cloud and stateless things. The data technologies and the data space has not quite caught up. The technology's there, but the thinking around it, and the deployment of those, it seems to be a slower, more methodical process. And so what we're seeing in a lot of enterprises is that the ones that got in early, have built out capabilities, are now looking for that, how do we get to the next level? How do we provide self-service? How do we enable our data scientists to be more productive within the enterprise, right? If you're a startup, it's easy, right? You're somewhere in the public cloud, you're using cloud based API, it's all fine. But if you're an enterprise, with the inertia of those legacy systems and governance and controls, it's a different problem to solve for. >> Let's just face it. We'll just call a spade a spade. Total cost of ownership was out of control. Hadoop was great, but it was built for something that tried to be something else as it evolved. And that's good also, because we need to decentralize and democratize the incumbent big data warehouse stuff. But let's face it, Hadoop is not the game anymore, it's everything else. >> Right, yep. >> Around it so, we've seen that, that's a couple years old. It's about business value right now. That seems to be the big thing. The separation between the players that can deliver value for the customers. >> Matt: Yep. >> And show a little bit of headroom for future AI things, they've seen that. And have the cloud on premise play. >> Yep. >> Right now, to me, that's the call here. What do you, do you agree? >> I absolutely see it. It's funny, you talk to organizations and they say, "We're going cloud, we're doing cloud." Well what does that mean? Can you even put your data in the cloud? Are you allowed to? How are you going to manage that? How are you going to govern that? How are you going to secure that? So many organizations, once they've asked those questions, they've realized, maybe we should start with the model of cloud on premise. And figure out what works and what doesn't. How do users actually want to self serve? What do we templatize for them? And what do we give them the freedom to do themselves? >> Yeah. >> And they sort of get their sea legs with that, and then we look at sort of a hybrid cloud model. How do we be able to span on premise, off premise, whatever your public cloud is, in a seamless way? Because we don't want to end up with the same thing that we had with mainframes decades ago, where it was, IBM had the best, it was the fastest, it was the most efficient, it was the new paradigm. And then 10 years later, organizations realized they were locked in, there was different technology. The same thing's true if you go cloud native. You're sort of locked in. So how do you be cloud agnostic? >> How do you get locked in a cloud native? You mean with Amazon? >> Or any of them, right? >> Okay. >> So they all have their own APIs that are really good for doing certain things. So Google's TensorFlow happens to be very good. >> Yeah. Amazon EMR. >> But you build applications that are using those native APIS, you're sort of locked. And maybe you want to switch to something else. How do you do that? So the idea is to-- >> That's why Kubernetes is so important, right now. That's a very key workload and orchestration container-based system. >> That's right, so we believe that containerization of workloads that you can define in one place, and deploy anywhere is the path forward, right? Deploy 'em on prem, deploy 'em in a private cloud, public cloud, it doesn't matter the infrastructure. Infrastructure's irrelevant. Just like Hadoop is sort of not that important anymore. >> So let me get your reaction on this. >> Yeah. So Dell EMC, so you guys have actually been a supplier. They've been the leading supplier, and now with Dell EMC across the portfolio of everything. From Dell computers, servers and what not, to storage, EMC's run the table on that for many generations. Yeah, there's people nippin' at your heels like Pure, okay that's fine. >> Sure. It's still storage is storage. You got to store the data somewhere, so storage will always be around. Here's what I heard from a CXO. This is the pattern I hear, but I'll just summarize it in one conversation. And then you can give a reaction to it. John, my life is hell. I have application development investment plan, it's just boot up all these new developers. New dev ops guys. We're going to do open source, I got to build that out. I got that, trying to get dev ops going on. >> Yep. >> That's a huge initiative. I got the security team. I'm unbundling from my IT department, into a new, difference in a reporting to the board. And then I got all this data governance crap underneath here, and then I got IOT over the top, and I still don't know where my security holes are. >> Yep. And you want to sell me what? (Matt laughs) So that's the fear. >> That's right. >> Their plates are full. How do you guys help that scenario? You walk in, actually security's pretty much, important obviously you can see that. But how do you walk into that conversation? >> Yeah, it's sort of stop the madness, right? >> (laughs) That's right. >> And all of that matters-- >> No, but this is all critical. Every room in the house is on fire. >> It is. >> And I got to get my house in order, so your comment to me better not be hype. TensorFlow, don't give me this TensorFlow stuff. >> That's right. >> I want real deal. >> Right, I need, my guys are-- >> I love TensorFlow but, doesn't put the fire out. >> They just want spark, right? I need to speed up my-- >> John: All right, so how do you help me? >> So, what we'd do is, we want to complement and augment their existing capabilities with better ways of scaling their architecture. So let's help them containerize their big data workload so that they can deploy them anywhere. Let's help them define centralized security policies that can be defined once and enforced everywhere, so that now we have a way to automate the deployment of environments. And users can bring their own tools. They can bring their data from outside, but because we have intelligent centralized policies, we can enforce that. And so with our elastic data platform, we are doing that with partners in the industry, Blue Talent and Blue Data, they provide that capability on top of whatever the customer's infrastructure is. >> How important is it to you guys that Dell EMC are partnering. I know Michael Dell talks about it all the time, so I know it's important. But I want to hear your reaction. Down in the trenches, you're in the front lines, providing the value, pulling things together. Partnerships seem to be really important. Explain how you look at that, how you guys do your partners. You mentioned Blue Talent and Blue Data. >> That's right, well I'm in the consulting organization. So we are on the front lines. We are dealing with customers day in and day out. And they want us to help them solve their problems, not put more of our kit in their data centers, on their desktops. And so partnering is really key, and our job is to find where the problems are with our customers, and find the best tool for the best job. The right thing for the right workload. And you know what? If the customer says, "We're moving to Amazon," then Dell EMC might not sell any more compute infrastructure to that customer. They might, we might not, right? But it's our job to help them get there, and by partnering with organizations, we can help that seamless. And that strengthens the relationship, and they're going to purchase-- >> So you're saying that you will put the customer over Dell EMC? >> Well, the customer is number one to Dell EMC. Net promoter score is one of the most important metrics that we have-- >> Just want to make sure get on the record, and that's important, 'cause Amazon, and you know, we saw it in Net App. I've got to say, give Net App credit. They heard from customers early on that Amazon was important. They started building into Amazon support. So people saying, "Are you crazy?" VMware, everyone's saying, "Hey you capitulated "by going to Amazon." Turns out that that was a damn good move. >> That's right. >> For Kelsinger. >> Yep. >> Look at VM World. They're going to own the cloud service provider market as an arms dealer. >> Yep. >> I mean, you would have thought that a year ago, no way. And then when they did the deal, they said, >> We have really smart leadership in the organization. Obviously Michael is a brilliant man. And it sort of trickles on down. It's customer first, solve the customer's problems, build the relationship with them, and there will be other things that come, right? There will be other needs, other workloads. We do happen to have a private cloud solution with Virtustream. Some of these customers need that intermediary step, before they go full public, with a hosted private solution using a Virtustream. >> All right, so what's the, final question, so what's the number one thing you're working on right now with customers? What's the pattern? You got the stack rank, you're requests, your deliverables, where you spend your time. What's the top things you're working on? >> The top thing right now is scaling architectures. So getting organizations past, they've already got their first 20 use cases. They've already got lakes, they got pedabytes in there. How do we enable self service so that we can actually bring that business value back, as you mentioned. Bring that business value back by making those data scientists productive. That's number one. Number two is aligning that to overall strategy. So organizations want to monetize their data, but they don't really know what that means. And so, within a consulting practice, we help our customers define, and put a road map in place, to align that strategy to their goals, the policies, the security, the GDP, or the regulations. You have to marry the business and the technology together. You can't do either one in isolation. Or ultimately, you're not going to be efficient. >> All right, and just your take on Big Data NYC this year. What's going on in Manhattan this year? What's the big trend from your standpoint? That you could take away from this show besides it becoming a sprawl of you know, everyone just promoting their wares. I mean it's a big, hyped show that O'Reilly does, >> It is. >> But in general, what's the takeaway from the signal? >> It was good hearing from customers this year. Customer segments, I hope to see more of that in the future. Not all just vendors showing their wares. Hearing customers actually talk about the pain and the success that they've had. So the Barclay session where they went up and they talked about their entire journey. It was a packed room, standing room only. They described their journey. And I saw other banks walk up to them and say, "We're feeling the same thing." And this is a highly competitive financial services space. >> Yeah, we had Packsotta's customer on Standard Bank. They came off about their journey, and how they're wrangling automating. Automating's the big thing. Machine learning, automation, no doubt. If people aren't looking at that, they're dead in my mind. I mean, that's what I'm seeing. >> That's right. And you have to get your house in order before you can start doing the fancy gardening. >> John: Yeah. >> And organizations aspire to do the gardening, right? >> I couldn't agree more. You got to be able to drive the car, you got to know how to drive the car if you want to actually play in this game. But it's a good example, the house. Got to get the house in order. Rooms are on fire (laughs) right? Put the fires out, retrench. That's why private cloud's kicking ass right now. I'm telling you right now. Wikibon nailed it in their true private cloud survey. No other firm nailed this. They nailed it, and it went viral. And that is, private cloud is working and growing faster than some areas because the fact of the matter is, there's some bursting through the clouds, and great use cases in the cloud. But, >> Yep. >> People have to get the ops right on premise. >> Matt: That's right, yep. >> I'm not saying on premise is going to be the future. >> Not forever. >> I'm just saying that the stack and rack operational model is going cloud model. >> Yes. >> John: That's absolutely happening, that's growing. You agree? >> Absolutely, we completely, we see that pattern over and over and over again. And it's the Goldilocks problem. There's the organizations that say, "We're never going to go cloud." There's the organizations that say, "We're going to go full cloud." For big data workloads, I think there's an intermediary for the next couple years, while we figure out operating pulse. >> This evolution, what's fun about the market right now, and it's clear to me that, people who try to get a spot too early, there's too many diseconomies of scale. >> Yep. >> Let the evolution, Kubernetes looking good off the tee right now. Docker containers and containerization in general's happened. >> Yep. >> Happening, dev ops is going mainstream. >> Yep. >> So that's going to develop. While that's developing, you get your house in order, and certainly go to the cloud for bursting, and other green field opportunities. >> Sure. >> No doubt. >> But wait until everything's teed up. >> That's right, the right workload in the right place. >> I mean Amazon's got thousands of enterprises using the cloud. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> It's not like people aren't using the cloud. >> No, they're, yeah. >> It's not 100% yet. (laughs) >> And what's the workload, right? What data can you put there? Do you know what data you're putting there? How do you secure that? And how do you do that in a repeatable way. Yeah, and you think cloud's driving the big data market right now. That's what I was saying earlier. I was saying, I think that the cloud is the unsubtext of this show. >> It's enabling. I don't know if it's driving, but it's the enabling factor. It allows for that scale and speed. >> It accelerates. >> Yeah. >> It accelerates... >> That's a better word, accelerates. >> Accelerates that horizontally scalable. Mike, thanks for coming on the CUBE. Really appreciate it. More live action we're going to have some partners on with you guys. Next, stay with us. Live in Manhattan, this is the CUBE. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from the Javits Center in New York City, it's The Cube, covering Inforum 2017. Brought to you by, Infor. >> Welcome back to Inforum 2017. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host Dave Vellante. We're joined by Marc Scibelli, he is the chief creative officer here at Infor. Thanks so much for returning to The Cube. >> Thanks for having me again, it's good to see you guys. >> So last year, the big announcement was H and L Digital, Hook and loop digital. Bring us up to speed, give us a status update of where you are now. >> Well we're a year later, I think what's really important is that we've established our application development framework, which allows us to rapidly deploy our prototypes, rapidly deploy the projects we're working on for a lot of customers. We've had a lot of wins over the last year. We're working closely with Brooklyn Sports, both the basketball team and the stadium and entertainment center. We're working with Travis Perkins, we're working with American Express. So we've got a lot of great client wins in our belt. We've learned a lot over the last year, but most importantly we've been able to actually fine tune our application development framework to bring that stuff to market very quickly for our customers, which has been a very big deal for us. >> So you mentioned a couple of client wins, Brooklyn Sports, let's unpack that a little bit, tell me a little about, tell our viewers specifically what's gone on. >> Yeah so, Brooklyn Nets basketball team here in the U.S., player performance a little bit down, so we're working with the performance coaches, we're working with the telemetric data that's coming out from the players. Things as it pertains to the arc of the ball throw, or the scale to models of how they perform or how much sleep they're getting. We're tying into a lot of IOT devices that the players use. We're bringing all that data into one place for the performance coaches and then allowing them to make better decisions on the field, on the court, in real time. So you'll see actually, behind you guys is our half court. We've actually set up a half court to show some of that data that we're bringing in about player performance. We actually run an NBA player assessment and show your player readiness, I hit like an eight percent readiness (Dave and Rebecca laugh) >> Rebecca: There's still time. >> Yeah five, eight I didn't think I was going to get very far in the NBA. >> High single digits. >> High, yeah, high, real high. So we're working a lot around player performance, certainly. And also with Brooklyn Sports Entertainment around the Barclay Center here in Brooklyn, how they can start to brand that experience. Nobody really has an affinity for an arena, you go and see Beyoncé or you go to watch the Nets. You don't really think about going to the Barclays Center, so how do you start as soon as they walk in the door, engaging with the customer using technology to drive all this value all the way through. How do you find the shortest beverage and bar line. How do you find the cleanest bathroom. How do you find, to get beverage and drinks and food delivered to your seat. That's all going to be technology that's going to drive that. A lot of our clients we've installed the digital backbone underpinning of that with our cloud suite. And now it's our job to commit a certain, creating these apps that differentiate them in the market place, help Barclays compete against other next-gen stadiums. >> So the Nets example it's similar to Moneyball but different, so he's talking the arc of the ball and so the remediation of some of those, the optimization of some of those, is just different training patterns or different exercises or drills that they could do. Whereas Moneyball it's like this unseen value, unbased percentage for example, are there analogs to Moneyball? Like I was listening to an interview with an owner the other day and the interviewer was beating him up about one player and he said well if you look at the deeper analytics, I'm like oh, deeper analytics what does that mean? So are there deeper analytics? >> Absolutely, you know we've left a lot of the basketball to the basketball professionals. When we started this thing the GM said to us, "Should we really get this started with" "you guys? What do you know about basketball?" We looked around and it was like an Englishman next to me and myself and we're like we don't know a lot about basketball but we hope that, that's what you're bringing to the table. We know a lot about how to bring the data science together, we can bring the AI in, we can bring all that together for your performance coaches and work with them Just like we didn't know a lot about farming and agriculture but we can work with feed companies to help them optimize for their customers. So it's not about what we knew about basketball but up to your point, those performance coaches are definitely finding those little nuggets of data to help those teams perform better. I couldn't tell you more off the top of my head cause that's how little I know about basketball. My eight percent performance rating will show you that, but they are looking inside that data and able to find that. And the trick is bringing it to them in real-time, bringing it so that they don't have to go into deep excel documents. That's what they were doing before. It was all stored in excel and they had to go through it and maybe somebody make a pivot table or something. >> Rebecca: Or watching play tapes. >> Or watching play, absolutely, of course. And by being able to assess all of that data too as well and bring that into the feed and be able to actually assess that and report it back into the larger system we're providing. It gives them a lot more visibility so they can find those little nuggets that they know as basketball professionals. >> And Burst is part of this solution? >> Not currently, no, but certainly we will be needing the Burst into that play, yeah. >> So Thomas Perkins is another example -- >> Marc: Travis Perkins. >> Travis Perkins, I'm sorry, that you mentioned. What kind of things are you doing there to make make that company able to really use data more wisely? >> So Travis Perkins, one of the largest building manufacturing supply company in the U.K. over 2000 distribution locations across England, very strong in its footprint. It's a really strong brand in terms of, sort of the Home Depot of the U.K. They put in M3 last year, it was a big announcement and it was a very large initiative for them and that's the digital backbone we talk about. So now it's our job we're coming in now we're automating a lot of their systems for their distribution centers so they get a better customer experience. So when I go into a Travis Perkins distribution center, I can get what I need much quicker so that's kind of the baseline thing that we come in and do. We look at ways to optimize for example if I could fah-bin with my truck and actually just pull my truck fah-bin, you know it's me, my order is ready. I don't need to get out of the truck, they pack my truck and I just drive out the other side. How do we create engagements for visibility models for the distribution managers to be able to see what's selling, what's not selling. Who's performing, who's not performing. Those are the things that we do as the baseline of the experience and then additionally to that, we look at new business models with them. So we're actually helping them think about new ways that they can create subscription models or ecosystem models. So, for example working on, they're working on the tool locker rental, setting up a,basically locker or rental facility, then using software to be able to access that locker and then you sort of create a subscription model to that. I'm able to just pull up, punch in a code, that's my tool locker, I get my tools right out of it and I can drive right off. And then doing it in places geographically that make a lot of sense for them. So that's kind of the best time, I think we get these signature experiences and optimize on top of the backbone, but then we create these whole new business transformation models of these companies, that's really exciting, really helpful. >> So retail's an interesting example everybody's got an amazon war-room trying figure out how to compete, where they can add value. What have you seen specifically in the retail business? >> I just moderated a panel with the CIO of DSW and the COO of Crate and Barrel on either side of me and it was exciting to see their, they feel a disruption but they're certainly eager to take it over. So, on the Crate and Barrel side we're seeing them be, really beat up by the Wayfairs of the world, three billion dollar valuation. They can get the market much quicker, they're running products in a much different way. Where Crate and Barrel has a much longer lead timer, the CPQ model. They've got to configure pricing, quoting, get it out. Takes 12 weeks to get a couch. How do you get, on the supply chain side, how do you get that shorter. So they're working with Infor to get that supply chain shorter. So they can compete on a shorter lead times but we're coming in to help them do is also look at how can you start to create experiences while you're waiting for that couch to be produced. Or while your shopping online what are things that you can do to know how long it'll take to get that item. And now that we just take all that digital backbone of that supply chain and create new experiences for it. On the DSW side we've been working really closely with them on point of sale as well as deep customer experience, apps for them with their employees. They really see their employees as the key tool to driving loyalty to their stores. So, we've been working on brand new apps in the mobile space that'll help their employees be able to serve their customers a lot better, have a much more tied loyalty program to their job performance with the customer's loyalty. So, a lot of great things there that we're working hard on. But certainly it's a massive behemoth of competing against amazon as a retailer. >> So what's your advice then for a company that is, and you're talking about companies that are already being very thoughtful and planful about this transformation, and understanding first of all that they need to transform, that they need to change or else they'll be left behind. So what's your advice for companies that are just starting on it? >> I think we kind of look at this as a holistic approach, we cannot take a little nibble bite-size out of the problem. So when it comes to digital looking at the entire ecosystem, looking at the operations, looking at the customers, looking at the employee. Saying what are we doing on our core backbone of the operations to make that run efficiently, to automate that. Let's do that, let's get that out of the way of all those people, let's make that run as quickly, as streamline as possible. Our cloud suite certainly help companies do that. And then, let's look at how we can start to transform the way they do their, they function inside their business by creating these functionally integrated models between all three. Between the operations, the customer and the employee. And let's create new experiences that live on top of that of that backbone that drive new value and until you do that, until you leverage your brand, like Crate and Barrel can leverage their brand if they just shorten that supply chain and start to optimize how they deliver. DSW can leverage their brand as a shoe warehouse if they provide a larger assortment and a better experience in-store, they can compete against amazon. So, to do that, we need them to, I would recommend companies, think of the approach holistically and not as a small little bites of just let's create this app and this one app is going to solve our problems. It's not, you got this much larger holistic approach you need to take. >> What percent of the Infor portfolio has Hook and Loop touched, affected? >> So, Hook and Loop core, certainly the GA products have touched everything. You'll see tomorrow on-stage Nunzio Esposito, our new head of Hook and Loop core. Who's running the business that when I first met you, I was running. They're doing very well and they've touched, I would say percentage-wise, 80% of the product if not more. Certainly their products are driving our business, like EAM, ACM financials, they have re-invented. And you'll see it tomorrow, they have done some incredible work. They just, they'll be releasing tomorrow, it's pretty exciting, a new UX for an entire cloud suite, so that pretty incredible. How Colman will be integrated into our cloud, it's a big deal so how do you create UX for that. And then certainly of course, how much UX and UY do you take away because you introduced Colman. You could take a lot of UX and UY away, a lot of functionality gets stripped away. So it's changed the methodologies we've used in the Hook and Loop core team but Ninzio has done a great job challenging himself to do that. >> Rebecca you were saying when you read the press releases around Infor they use terms like beautiful and so it's very apple-esque. Where do you get your inspiration? >> I think it's the consumer great products we talked about years ago when I first met you. The idea that how I function, like daily life at home, should echo how I function at work. Certainly now we're getting inspiration for how companies that are born digitally are creating these models that drive them. How we can help other companies do that as well. so, we're inspired by everything that touches us. To be honest , I still use my TEVO, I might be the only person left, (Dave and Rebecca laughing) That's not true they're doing very well >> I like the little sound effects of TEVO, I know what you mean. >> I can't say I'm the only person, but I'm probably the only person that'll admit it. That I love my TEVO. But these are things that I've watched them, not just change their UX like we did with Infor five years ago, but now they've changed their business model, they've changed what they've become as a hub and as a digital solution. How they used media channels to drive their business, I think that's incredible and it's a similar journey we're going on. So, there's a lot to be inspired by. >> Why should the consumer guys have all the fun? >> Marc: Yeah exactly. >> So how do you keep your team, you're the chief creative officer, so how do you, you talked about what inspires you and what inspires the company as a whole but how do you, keep a culture of creativity and innovation going? How do you keep the momentum? >> We've been really fortunate to have a really great support system by the executive team, Charles Phillips, Duncan Angove, certainly have been incredible about needing a team like Hook and Loop. When I met David it was 15 people maybe a little more, and now it's a 120 that run that core team. We launched H and L Digital last year, we were like nine people and now we're over 40. That investment, those dollars they put back into these kind of endeavors are really indicative of that . And I think that it comes through to the creatives and the people that we bring in that this is the kind of investments that Infor is interested in. We have a beautiful working environment inside New York City inside our headquarters. We have a beautiful new garage we just opened up, an innovation lab, we get to play with the greatest toys. I think we're actually very, very fortunate, to be inside a company like Infor and get to work with the people, we get to work with as designers, and as creatives. And that was an up hill slope to keep people motivated to do that as creatives and we call them left brain creators. I think we're there now, we turn away a lot of people to come work for us now. So it's pretty exciting. >> New York, London, Dubai, right? >> That's exactly right thank you, yeah. We are, we opened London just recently, we're opening Dubai next and we have two teams in New York. It's pretty exciting. >> Rebecca: Great. >> Love to see the Dubai. >> Yeah, Dubai is being built up right now, we have an office there already. >> could be the next destination, >> Cube Dubai. >> We should do a cube Dubai, that'd be great, they would love it there. >> Alright. >> I love it. Well Marc-- >> Put that on the list. >> Marc, thanks so much for joining us it's always a pleasure having you on the show. >> Thank you >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante we will have more from Inforum after this.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas It's theCUBE covering Edge 2016. Brought to you by IBM. Now, here are your hosts Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas, everybody. This is theCUBE the world-wide leader in live tech coverage. Leanne Kemp is here. She's the founder and CEO of Everledger. Leanne, good to see you. >> Hello, hello. What a great place to be. >> Good joke, Las Vegas again. Stu and I spend a lot of time here. Why did you start Everledger? >> Well, you know, some might say it's my mid-life crisis but the reality is I've been in emerging technology for 25 years. In the mid 90s, now I'm giving away my age I was in radio frequency identification so at the chip and inlay level supply chain tracking. A bit boring, really. >> Stu: No, RFID is cool. >> But in the last 10 years I've worked in jewelry and insurance. And that's given me an appreciation of the size of the problems that exist in the market. And couple that with a whole lot of nerd we have the ability to solve the problems that we're solving today. >> And describe that problem. It's a problem of provenance and transparency is that right? >> Provenance, fraud, document tampering. And when you mix all of those together you have a pretty potent formula for black market trade. And sadly, some of that trade is really running into terrorist-funded activities. So, it's a pretty big problem but I think now is a very real issue that's washing the front pages of every paper on a daily event. Diamonds, of course, is one of the vehicles for anti-money laundering. And if we can go and serve to reduce some of those problems then it's worthwhile getting out of bed for. >> Okay, so you're attacking the diamond value chain. Why that? 'Cuz you have a background in jewelry? Okay, how are you solving that problem though? Describe that in a little bit more detail. >> So, attacking's pretty aggressive. I think we're enhancing. So, we're bringing transparency in a once-opaque market. You know, we're enabling, with the use of technology to bring transparency into the market so that we can start to reduce some of the problems around fraud. When you really think about I mean most people look at us as a blockchain company. I liken us to an emerging technology company. We're using the very best of blockchain and smart contracts and machine vision as an enabler to be able to identify fraudulent-related activities and reduce them in marketplaces. And we're just starting with diamonds but it's really anything that is appreciable of value that criminals like to maybe get their grubby mitts on. >> When did you get this idea, like what timeframe? 2010, 2011, 2015? >> To be honest with you I think this has been a cocktail of experience that really has brought it together at the right time. So, you know, as I said my background has been really unfolding like a patchwork quilt. But when you really see the heightened anxiety that's going on in market now particularly around synthetic diamonds that are of gem-quality standards there's no greater time to be able to bring confidence back into the diamond industry and the consumer networks. >> I guess my question is that at what point did you say okay blockchain can be addressed to enhance this problem? Did you look at Bitcoin and say hmm, that's interesting? Not a currency, it's a technology that I can apply to all the problems. >> Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm a technologist so I really am quite bored with Sudoku so I would rather sort of look at what's going on in the tech space. And so when I really saw the emergency of Bitcoin I understood where that application could lie. But because I wasn't from a banking background it was patently obvious to me that I could decouple the currency from the ledger and really use the currency as a vehicle or a tokenization of assets. And the assets is diamonds, a girl's best friend. So why wouldn't you want to protect your assets? (chuckles) >> Fascinating 'cuz I think the first time I heard of, you know, blockchain and Bitcoin it was about being anonymous and therefore there were concerns that some of those unscrupulous people that are trying to benefit off of like diamonds would use, you know, this crypto currency. They don't have to talk to banks. They don't have to talk to governments. So you've almost flipped the usage of the technology to something to help the world a little bit more. >> That's right. I guess when you really think about it, you know the Bitcoin has often been assimilated with the anarchic world. And we're really bringing it to clean and transparency. So, I guess there is a juxtaposition there. But everything's upside down for me. I'm from Australia so it's perfectly normal. >> Go ahead, Stu. >> Yeah, just when you look at Blockchain and kind of the core technology you think we're really in the early days? What kind of usage do you see out beyond the ledgers? Are there other applications be it beyond the diamonds that you guys are looking at? >> Yeah, you know, so it's interesting. In the early 2000s I worked in WAP, you know? And I was so excited. I thought wow, this tech is really going to do something. So, you know, I'm part of Team Asserti in Australia and wrote out an application. And I felt like nearly six months came into the tech. And all of a sudden, I woke up and I went where the bloody hell did WAP go? It just disappeared. There was a very real danger that this technology was likely to face the same ill fate. And we often see in any emerging technology where there are heightened promises. They often end in disappointment. So, actually most of the decisions I've made in a start-up, and we're only 18 months old have really been counterintuitive. You know, when it's the time to put the pedal straight down I've often held back to really wait to see where the maturity of the technology was going to lie. And in any emerging technology and if you're a CEO of a start-up you have to be completely articulate about where the problem is that you're solving. But not only that you need to take the time to really distill the technology to its purest essence and then enable that to be the potent shot that goes out first and foremost. And so this is a nascent technology. And maybe, you know, it has the parentage of a multilingual PhD scientist but the reality is it's only just been born. We're not even nappy feddy. We're not even out of out of our nappies right now. So we need to give it the time to really grow. And we've chosen a niche market. It just so happens that it's a bloody big niche. >> So what took longer to figure out the problem or the solution? >> You know, I think you know, I don't know. That's a really good question, actually. I think the problem for me I understood quite early but I just didn't appreciate the size of the problem globally and the extension of that problem into other areas. And really I think it's taken some time for the technology to be understood. We've taken a view that we'd like to see ourselves as the custodian of the technology. We don't want to go to market too early. We want to be sure that whenever the message is delivered to market that it's something we've already delivered that we have built that the engineering effort has already been afforded. You know, small acorns grow into mighty oaks. And so for us, it's about ensuring that we take the time to really give the right fertilizer to the growth. >> And that's a 50 billion dollar problem you said this morning is that right? Is that there- >> Just in insurance. But we have banks as our clients too so, you know, we're shooting hoops. >> So you're saying it's a multiplier of that 50 billion? >> Leanne: Of course. >> Yeah, big multiplier. >> I mean counterfeit good if you extend it into luxury goods it's 1.7 trillion dollars. >> And you talked about the sort of value chain of rough cut, 15 billion and you maybe triple that when it gets polished almost 50 billion and then another one and a half X at retail. Where are the holes in that value chain, everywhere? I mean are you seeing fraud occur throughout that value chain or- >> Effectively. You know, we don't have you know, visibility of complete provenance through the supply chain. And in fact, it's not just limited to the diamond industry. I mean I guess the diamond industry there's the allure of luxury. You know, there's the backdrop of affluence. And then, of course, there's the atrocity of what goes on in terms of or what used to go on so prolifically in blood diamonds. You know, effectively the industry isn't as burdened with technology as say financial services. It doesn't have the legacy of 50 years of technology that it needs to unwind. So, when you really consider what's going on in the market today to bring emerging technology into this space not limited to blockchain even enabling new technologies like high-definition photographs and machine vision our marketplace has the ability to consume that technology quite rapidly. And when you think about the problems in our market or the restrictions in our market it's really a lightning rod moment for us where we've just been fortunate enough to be able to build out a solid engineering rod to be able to capture that lightning bolt of problem. >> Dave: Mm-hmm. >> We've had a lot of discussions with IBM executives this week and they feel security is one of the things that IBM does really well. Talk a little bit about your relationship with IBM what IBM does well what they're good at partnering with. How is it to work with IBM? >> Dave: What they could do better. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely (chuckles). We, in the very first 12 months of Everledger we managed to onboard, you know, a million diamonds. And most people were applauding the efforts of our engineering team. And we certainly applauded ourselves. But Christmas was a very lonely path for me because I started to become shivered by the thought of what would this mean if I went from a million to 10 million to 15 million and then into rough being able to track 320 million carats of rough diamonds across 80 countries around the world. So, when you're a start-up and you're faced with some of the largest organizations and governments around the world let's face it, the industry's 130 years old. You want to be able to look towards a technology innovator like IBM that has been around and reinvented itself over a trusted 100 years. And that transactional trust is at the very core of this fabric. So, some of the things that you look at in terms of a start-up may be actually too isolated. A lot of technology companies that are in the blockchain space are just looking at the blockchain fabric. But for me, it was patently obvious we needed to stretch further. We needed to realize that we have to deliver this into a cloud solution. We have to deliver this technology in such a form that has to be secured. And the security needs to really be from the ground up at the root source right the way through to the front end. And there's no other partner that's actually doing that. There are other service providers in this space that shall not be mentioned. But they're, of course, taking whatever nascent technology is being built and putting it into the cloud. IBM has really taken the time to sew together the right security fabric. >> And that's about scale for you, right? I mean you wouldn't be able to scale without it. >> I sleep at night knowing that we have IBM. Like as a CEO, I sleep at night. >> My understanding, there's container technology that you're using in here. Most people think of containers as security's one of the holes there so, you know, how do you feel with the security of containers today? And maybe you can share a little bit about you know, what IBM's doing specifically for that. >> Yeah, I mean the container services team that we've been working with and today I had the absolute privilege it was a diary note moment for me to present on stage with Donna. You know, her background in security has afforded us the ability to really deliver this quite quickly. The work that they have been doing is recognized not only and I touched on the surface of the three markets that of real concern or focus for us is fraud and theft and cyber. And when you consider the container services and the security team that's wrapped this around I really think that actually one of the silent winners in this is the reduction in cyber crime. And maybe that hasn't been focused on too largely. And the 50 billion dollars that I was talking about was really around document tampering and, you know, the over-inflation of insurance claims. When you really think about it it's actually cyber crime that I think we could actually truly solve as part of the solution itself. >> So explain again, Leanne, how does it work? So each diamond has a unique identifies it's got a fingerprint on there. How does it get on there? >> So there are existing processes in industry. There are two parts to the market first is rough diamonds and the second is polished diamonds. And as diamonds are crossing borders as a part of international trade they're often inspected by gemologists. Those that, of course, have received licenses in the skill of identifying diamonds. But that's all- >> Dave: But that's a spot inspection, is that right or- >> Correct. >> Dave: Yeah. >> But there's also actual machinery. So there are certain types of science that have been applied and have been applied for a number of years. And one of the challenges that we faced with ourselves is to IoT-enable the diamond pipeline. So, some of these machines have been in existence. They're highly calibrated and they have precision but that data is often blackboxed. It's not, indeed, ledgered or stored for public view or even inter-office view. And so one of the tricks that we've enabled is the ability to take all of those data points 40 meta data points as well as the reputation or the expert opinion and lay that data into the blockchain. So we're layering really a reputation score not only of the person, the machine but also the diamond and the validity of that diamond. And that can only come over time with large aggregated data sets. >> Okay, and that is your providence. You said the world's provenance is locked in paper. So now you're locking it into- >> Leanne: You're listening >> The blockchain. Of course (chuckles). I knew we had to talk to you. We better listen. Okay, so all right. And then can you explain the banking crisis the liquidity crisis in the diamond business? >> Leanne: Yeah, absolutely. >> What's that stem from? I didn't quite understand. >> It's really affecting the middle part of the pipeline. We have very large mining companies and of course quite substantial retailers but it's the middle part of the pipeline that's really being caused in terms of a squeeze. And so they are the diamond cutters and polishers really generational businesses that have perfected the art and the skill of cutting diamonds. It's the middle part of the pipeline that's really being affected at the moment. And as I mentioned there are two brave Western banks that remain supporting industry. The largest, which has been really in industry for quite some time is ABN AMRO. And proudly, they still remain. And Barclay's Bank. But we've seen an announcement more recently with Standard pulling back out of the industry for a lack of transparency and a burden on their balance sheet. This, of course, has come from Basel III and some of the regulations that's been pushed down from them. And if we're able to take certification and extend transparency but also bring certification to the next level to enable a collateral management system to be built so banks can take the security on the underlying asset rather than just take a balance sheet position it will lift the burden on their balance sheet. It will give them security of the diamond. And let's face it, diamonds are worth something. And as I said when you start to understand the true effect of rough to polished to track the diamond through its lifecycle and give security is something that banks are open-minded about. >> Yes, okay. So it's not a chicken and egg problem it's a transparency begets liquidity is that right? That's the premise anyway >> Yeah >> Dave: That you're testing basically making that bet with your company. We don't have much time but I just wanted to ask you about your company. You're an entrepreneur. You started the company, you said 18 months ago. Funding, VC, you know, give us the lowdown. >> Sure, sure, sure. I mean I came into London in October of 2014. And I was desperate to talk to insurers. And so one of the largest insurers in the London market is Aviva. And they had a hackathon at Google so I thought hey, this would be all right. I'm just going to Trojan Horse the event and see if I can have a talk to the CFO and COO. So I went there. They opened up some APIs. And because I, of course, had a technical background I thought those APIs are hopeless there's not much I can do with that. But if you want to solve some of the problems here this is what you can do. You can take diamonds, take certification and put it on the blockchain as a way to reduce fraud. And at that hackathon I was awarded the innovation prize. But the managing director of Barclay's Techstars was one of the judges and came to me and invited me to join them as part of their accelerator in London which began in March 2015. And, of course, I thought this is crazy. Why would I want to do that? Why would I want to be in London with a bank? It doesn't really make too much sense. And let's face it, I mean Australia is a much nicer country to spend your holidays in rather than London. But in any event, I returned and participated as part of the Barclay's accelerator and I've been supported through the process of the acceleration. But Barclay's is both a bank and an insurance company in Africa so the penny dropped and we put our head down. We wore some letters off the keyboard and Everledger was born. And away we go. >> And so Barclay's funded, in part the company or- >> Barclay's and the Techstars accelerator program have a seed funding event which is a part of the acceleration program for start-ups if you're chosen. And we were fortunate enough to be chosen. And since that time we've been we haven't disclosed who one of our backers are. >> Dave: Okay. >> But we will, in time. And so we've been funded by a selected name in industry. And we're actually just about to go into our Series A so we're looking towards that in the next number of months. >> Dave: You're not even in Series A yet? So you've gotten this far without even getting to your Series A? >> Leanne: Yeah. >> 980 thousand? >> Well, we have revenue, so- >> Dave: Yeah. >> This is my last start-up. I had to go through an intervention with my family to enable me to be here. >> Dave: This is my last So this is it. >> Dave: We've heard that before. >> I promise. I know, it's true, it's true. >> Opportunities beyond diamonds or is that getting too ahead of our speech here? >> Diamonds, watches, art, fine wine you know, and I'm completely empowered by how do we bring what the diamond industry did so well in the reduction of blood diamonds and bring ethical trade really to the forefront of the mind of the consumer and also the mind of the financial services market. So, you know, for me it's really around that part of the world. If that nexus point comes together then I'll keep getting out of bed for it. >> Awesome. Great story. Impressive entrepreneur. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Leanne: Yes, thank you. >> London's not so bad (chuckles). Comment? >> London's probably watching. (Dave and Leanne laugh) >> All right, thanks again. Keep it right there, buddy. Stu and I will be back with our next guest. We're live from IBM Edge in Las Vegas. We'll be right back. (low tempo music)