(upbeat music playing) >> Narrator: theCUBE presents Ignite 22, brought to you by Palo Alto Networks. >> Hey guys, girls, welcome back. It's theCUBE Live in Las Vegas at the MGM Grand for Palo Alto Networks Ignite 22. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante. Dave, We've had some great conversations. This is day one of two days of cube coverage. We're talking with Palo Alto executives, their partner network, their customers, going to be learning a lot about what they've been doing to really be that golden nugget. >> Yeah. We've talked, Lisa, about how Palo Alto Networks is affecting a TAM expansion strategy through acquisitions and integration and company CDW, that I remember, you know, been around a long time. I remember back in the Comdex days talk about transformation of a company. Really excited to have them on. >> We're going to talk about that. Stephanie Hagopian is here, the VP of Security at CDW. >> Stephanie, >> Hey it's great to have you on the program. >> It's so nice to be here. Thank you. >> So lots going on. CDW has made several acquisitions in the past couple of quarters alone as it relates to security. Talk to us about what's going on. >> Yes. So we are way more than the computer warehouse that you used to know. The computer catalog days, we've moved beyond that. We've made a lot of strategic acquisitions in the past several quarters. The reason for that is we're trying to change our image and our brand and how, more importantly, we engage with our customers in security. We used to traditionally be, you know, kind of at the end of the procurement cycle with our customers, and we want to be an advisor. We want to really sell solutions and help influence the outcomes that our clients are trying to achieve when it comes to, not just security, but also risk, governance, threatened vulnerability management, how are they dealing with major issues around zero trust and building a zero trust framework for a company. >> Lisa: And I imagine these acquisitions, that really from a catalyst perspective was really driven >> Yeah. by the customers and what they were >> absolutely wanting to see and feel and hear and be able to do. >> Absolutely. So the acquisitions have given us over 400 delivery resources, consultants, advisors people who can actually engage with our clients who have real life experience, have worked with global organizations, some of the biggest companies in the world in order to solve their problems. And using that experience to be able to to really create higher value, you know as we interact and engage. >> Dave: You were telling us, Stephanie, that you actually came into CDW through an acquisition. >> I did. >> And I think if you go back 10 years ago when the cloud was just sort of hitting its steep steep ramp, and it looked, it was pretty obvious. And at the same time you had what we affectionately called you know, box sellers. And it was very clear that if they didn't transform their businesses and you know, the, they a lot of 'em were small, regional companies. They had the owners had big houses and big boats but the companies were going to go away if they didn't transform. So it's interesting to me that you've chosen security and governance in some of the really most difficult areas to as part of that transformation. Where did that come from, from your perspective and you know, why security and why such challenging areas? >> Well, I've been part of security in the security industry for over 20 years, and I've loved the fact it is challenging. It's what, it's what makes us so important and critical to our clients. Security's not an easy problem to solve. And it, it's because the landscape keeps changing. The advent of cloud and now hybrid infrastructure creates endless challenges for our customers. Threat actors change. We have insider threats, we have external threats. There's all sorts of risk when you talk about third parties and how third parties interact with organizations. We have supply chain management. And now that we've moved into this hybrid work environment of virtual, not virtual. You know, we have people kind of engaging within organizations in different ways. There's just a lot of risk associated with that. It's not easy and you have to engage with stakeholders across the entire organization. You have to understand how legal thinks of this and compliance and HR. It's not just an IT issue, it's a business issue. And we understand that and it's just, it's so interesting for us to engage with our customers on critical initiatives and security is at the top of the list. It's not just a, a CISO or even a CIO problem anymore. Boards care about this, >> Lisa: Right? >> We make or break companies with cybersecurity and risk strategies. That's why it's so critical. So we consider ourselves to be a high priority for every single organization, big or small. >> Lisa: From a security perspective, what's the common denominator among industries that you're seeing? >> Oh, I mean, we see, in terms of common denominator, I think every single organization's contending with ransomware. >> Ah >> That's probably number one. Breaches. You know, how do you prevent bad actors from doing something, you know, that's threatening to information sensitive data, especially consumer data. Third party risk is a big topic, and how to secure hybrid cloud infrastructures which is a key part of, you know, Palo's strategy as well. And we realize that. >> Why do they buy from CDW? Pitch me. I'm a customer, what can you do for me? >> Yeah. Because we want to partner. So we, we provide true advisory and consulting services to our customers. We aren't there just to make a sale and walk away. We want long-term commitments and long-term partnerships with our customer base. We're there to, to give them outcomes, right? And to align to their priorities and their challenges. It's, it's not a one and done for us. This is about a long-term partnership and that's what makes us so different. And we're now through the acquisition strategies. We're the largest security integrator in North America in terms of our revenue and our size just our sheer size and capability and the amount of full-time employees we have dedicated to this part of our business. So they know they can trust us and that we can scale. >> Dave: Do you? Is is it a, a teach me how to fish strategy? Or is it also if >> Yeah, >> if you want to have, if I, if I as a customer want to have you continue to manage or at least provide some kind of managed services, where's the the line? >> Stephanie: Yeah. So we are incredibly unique in the way we've built out our security practice in that we, we do both. And we want our clients to understand that there are going to be elements of what they do that they want to keep in house from a security perspective. That is why, and it also came from an acquisition, we have a workforce development team for security. We actually are a Palo authorized training partner. And we're incredibly proud of that fact because we don't just want to configure technology. We want to enable our customers to enhance and maintain their investments with Palo and with all technologies, with all of security. At the same time, we know they can't do everything in-house, and it just might make more sense to do manage through us. So we have end-to-end managed capabilities as well and we continue to enhance that part of our business. >> So a lot, a lot of opportunities for customers there. Talk a little bit about the Palo Alto Network's extension of the value prop that you just talked about. >> Oh yes. We love, you know, Palo is taking a platform approach and really focusing on helping customers rationalize their IT infrastructure around security. We're doing the same exact thing and focusing on zero trust is huge. We're, we're having those conversations with our customers as well. We want them to take their Palo investment and try to create a platform approach because there's simplicity and cost savings in that. The security conversations becoming a CFO conversation, right? We love rationalizing those technology investments in a way that makes sense. And we're right in line with Palo in that we want to provide those capabilities end to end and we want to ensure they integrate and use that all of the capabilities within your platform to the extent of that investment, right? We want them to use everything and not just parts of the technology or just do a partial deployment. We want them to use everything that it functionally is available to them through that investment. >> Dakesh, in his keynote this morning, said the answer is not just more people. I know there's this, this, this gap between the number of required number of cyber professionals that we need and >> Stephanie: Oh yeah. >> And how many employees we have, et cetera, et cetera. However, you just can't get there overnight. So that's where service providers, you know, come in. >> Stephanie: It's huge. >> I saw a stat recently, I think it said 50% of organizations in North America don't have a SOC. >> That's true. >> Okay. So they, they need managed services. So, >> Stephanie: They do. >> What are you seeing with some of the small and mid-size companies >> Stephanie: Managed >> and, and and how does, how is that, how is that going? We're entering a new era with, >> Stephanie: Yeah with, you know, cloud can can be a, a great help and and reduce the IT load internally. >> Yeah. >> Dave: What, what's the dynamic like in the customer base? >> Smaller customers especially they just can't attract the cyber talent. It's a high demand field because there just aren't many people who have that capability, right? For us, providing managed a managed SOC is huge. One of our key acquisitions, Sirius, was our largest acquisition recently, brought us a 24 7 managed SOC capability. And that's exactly what our mid-size customers want and demand and what they need, and it's more cost effective. And now they don't have to worry about being a security business. That's not what they are. They need to run their businesses and that's what we provide through managed capabilities especially for that customer base in particular. >> Lisa: And and >> Dave: How about the really small customers, right? Who, who, you know, they're in some ways the most vulnerable. >> Yeah >> Right? >> In many ways >> They don't have the budgets they're kind of working hand to mouth. How, how do you help them? >> Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. So we, we provide cost effective managed capabilities. So there's managed for enterprise, there's managed for mid-market, but then for small medium businesses they want something that is at the right price point. And that's what we're doing actually in co-development with Palos. That's why we're expanding, not just our professional services capabilities with the Palo platform, but also providing managed support for every aspect of the platform so that customers don't need to invest in full-time employees to do that. They can, they have a predictable cost model that's affordable, that they can leverage over time. So we're very intent on making sure we're fulfilling that not just for our big customers but also for SMB and our, and small businesses as well. >> So you really have that whole suite taken care of >> The whole suite, yeah. I want to talk about some of the the large enterprises for a second. I saw a survey recently that, you know, you talked about security is a board level conversation. It is. >> Stephanie: Very much so. >> We talk about that all the time, CFO conversation but the survey that I saw recently was that there's not there's lack of alignment on boards with the executive suite where security is concerned. Are you seeing that and how can CDW and the Palo Alto partnership help gain that important alignment? >> Stephanie: Yeah So we, we face this all the time. What's on the CISO whiteboard might not be on the CFO's whiteboard or the, the board's whiteboard right? We love, and this is the whole part of our strategy and our strategy partnering with Palo, is that we want to engage further up on the, on the cycle. The, you know, we don't want to to talk to them at the end of the purchasing cycle because we're not providing value. >> Lisa: Yeah. >> We want to help advise them and build the business case. And by them, I mean our CISOs are, you know the heads of network security. You know, their are various stakeholders that we want to engage with to help them build the business case and the justification so that they are speaking the same language as the board member, the CFO. And we do that in many ways. I think the biggest is that we've we've built a global security strategy office that encompasses practitioners. So these are former CISOs, CIOs CTOs who have sat in their shoes and done what they've done. And we bring that experience to bear, coincidentally but not so coincidentally, Palo has the same capability. So Palo's also has a team of field CISOs and former practitioners. So we're partnering together to make sure that we're enabling our customers in, in providing the right value statements and the the right ROI within the the board meetings so that they get that investment right. And they're able to do what they need to do to secure the infrastructure. >> Dave: I mean, historically the business case has been we're going to help you not get breached, and you're going to reduce your, your, your loss >> Stephanie: (indistinct) still relevant. >> And, and I'm, and it's still very relevant. Is there any sort of on the other side of the algebra algebraic equation where actually having this kind of security practice can actually drive productivity >> Absolutely. >> Or or even drive revenue and can you talk about that part of the equation? >> Stephanie: Yeah, security as an industry, we're we've gotten a lot smarter. We understand it's not just about the compliance aspect or the data privacy aspect. It's very important to your point, you know breach prevention is certainly, you know, a a great justification. It's also about automation. So you think of SOAR, right? Providing automation and visibility and dashboard views into who's doing what actually really reduces administrative overhead. We, you know, we want to re-allow our clients to repurpose individuals because there are a finite amount of people in the security industry to focus on higher value tasks. So we're enabling just a lot of cost savings through that. Self-service is a big piece of this. You know, when you think about security we bring along a lot of automation, self-service automation of business logic, and business process. There's a huge value in cost savings attached to that. So that's huge. That's a huge part of the security conversation. >> I was reading, you talked about the cybersecurity skills gap and I was reading some interesting numbers that there's 26 million developers in the world less than 3 million cybersecurity professionals. >> Stephanie: Yeah. >> Talk to us about one of your favorite customer stories where you think CDW and Palo really nailed it in terms of helping organization drive that value the top line value, the bottom line value while enabling them with your expertise. >> Oh my gosh, I don't even want to focus on one because since we became a Palo authorized training partner we have worked with over a hundred clients. We just started this this year and we've helped over a hundred clients and thousands of people get enabled on on Palo firewall configuration and training and development. So we've co, we've partnered together as and we've impacted over a hundred organizations this year in making sure their people are enabled and they're, they're going from that I'm a developer generic to I'm a security professional. So we're helping to close that cybersecurity workforce gap. And we're just so excited at the scale we've been able to do that in such a short amount of time that, I mean, if you think about next year and the year following I mean it's going to be thousands of different clients. But you think about each client, we're impact we're, we're holding classes with 30 plus people. So we've already impacted thousands of people which is amazing. >> Right? So the idea to scale the program in in calendar year 2023 >> Absolutely. We're going to, we, we tried it. This was a trial run and it was amazingly successful trial run. So we're incredibly excited to scale this even more and continue to provide, you know, that element, that workforce development element, that training element for the entire Palo's stack, not just elements of it. >> Lisa: Excellent. Stephanie, thank you so much for joining us on the program. >> Stephanie: Thank you. >> Sharing what CDW and Palo Alto Networks are doing together. The what's in it for me from a customer perspective, big impact there. We appreciate your insights. >> Thank you so much. >> Dave: Great to have you >> Lisa: Our pleasure. >> It's great to have, great to be here. >> Yeah. For our guest and for Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live and emerging tech coverage.

(bright music) >> Hello cloud computing friends and welcome back to theCUBE, where we are live from Las Vegas, Nevada, here at AWS re:Invent all week. My name is Savannah Peterson, very excited to be joined by Paul Gillan today. How are you doing? >> I'm doing great, Savannah. It's my first re:Invent. >> I was just going to ask you >> So it's quite an experience. >> If you've ever been to re:Invent. >> It's dazzling much like the sequins on your top. It's dazzling. >> Yes. >> It's a jam packed affair. I came to the COMDEX Conference for many years in Las Vegas, which was huge event and this really rivals it in terms of these crowd sizes. But I think there's more intensity here. There's more excitement. People are just jazzed about being here to the extent that I never saw at other computer conferences. >> I thought I would agree with you. It's my first re:Invent as well. I'm glad we could share this experience together. And the vibe, the pulse, I think being back in person is really contagious as well. Ooh, maybe the wrong word to use, but in a great way. The energy is definitely radiating between people here. I'll watch my words a little bit better. >> And in person we have with us Samuel Nicholls, the director of public cloud at Global Product Marketing at Veeam Software. Sam, is it Sam or Samuel? >> Depends if I'm in trouble, Paul. >> Savannah: But it depends on who's saying it out loud. >> Yeah, yeah. It's typically, Samuel is usually reserved for my mother, so- >> Yeah. >> (laughs) Well, Sam, thanks for joining us. >> We'll stick with Sam on the show. >> Yeah. >> So Veeam been a red hot company for several years. Really made its, uh, its reputation in the VMware world. Now you've got this whole-sail shift to the cloud, not that VMware is not important still, but how is that affecting, you're shifting with it, how is that affecting your role as a product manager and the business overall? >> Yeah, it's a fantastic question. Obviously Veeam was pioneered in terms of being the purpose-built backup and recovery company for VMware. And as these workloads are being transitioned from the data center into the cloud or just net new workloads being created in the cloud, there is that equal need for backup and recovery there. So it's incredibly important that we were able to provide a purpose-built backup and recovery solution for workloads that live in AWS as well. >> Paul: And how different is it backing up an AWS workload compared to a VMware workload? >> I think it depends on what kind of service a user is, is, is utilizing, right? There's infrastructure as a service, platform as a service, software as a service. And given the differences in what is exposed to that customer that can make backup and recovery quite challenging. So I would say that the primary thing that we want to look at is utilizing native snapshots is our first line of defense when it comes to backup and recovery, irrespective of what workload that right might be whether it's a virtual machine, Amazon EC2, some sort of database on Amazon RDS, a file share, so on. >> Savannah: I bet you're seeing a lot across verticals and across the industry given the support that you're giving customers. What are you seeing in the market and in customer environments? What are some of those trends? >> So I think the major trends that we highlight in our data protection trend support, which is a new update is coming very shortly in the new year, is- >> Savannah: We have to check that out. >> Yeah, absolutely. The physical server is on a decline within the data center. Virtualized workloads, namely VMware is relatively static, kind of flat. The real hockey stick is with the cloud workloads. And as I mentioned before, that is partially because workloads are being transitioned from physical to virtual machines to being cloud hosted but also we're creating more applications and the cloud has become lead de facto standard for new workloads. So you hear about cloud first initiatives, digital transformation, the cloud is central to that. >> You mentioned snapshotting, which is a relatively new phenomenon, although it's taken a hold rapidly, how does snapshotting work in the cloud versus in on your on-prem environment? >> Samuel: It's not wildly different at all. I think the snapshots is again, a great first line of defense for helping users achieve very low recovery point objectives. So the frequency that they can protect their data as well as very low recovery time objectives, how quickly that I can recover the data. Because that's why we're backing up, right? We need the ability to recover. However, snapshots certainly have their limitations as well. They are not independent of the workload that is being protected. So if there were to be some sort of cybersecurity event like ransomware that is prolific throughout pretty much every business, every vertical. When that snapshot is not independent, if the production system becomes compromised that snapshot's likely to be compromised as well. And then going back to the recovery piece, not going to have something to recover from. >> And it's not a one and done with ransomware. >> No. >> It's, yeah. So how, so what is the role that backup plays? I mean a lot of people, I feel like security is such a hot topic here in the show and just in general, attacks are coming in unique form factors for everyone. I mean, I feel like backup is, no pun intended, the backbone of a system here. How does that affect what you're creating, I mean? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think, like you say the backup is core to any comprehensive security strategy, right? I think when we talk about security, everyone tends to focus on the preventative, the proactive piece, stopping the bad guys from getting in. However, there is that remediative aspect as well because like you say, ransomware is relentless, right? You, you as a good guy have to pretty much fend off each and every single attack that comes your way. And that can be an infinite number of attacks. We're all human beings, we're fallible, right? And sometimes we can't defend against everything. So having a secure backup strategy is part of that remediative recovery component for a cybersecurity strategy is critical. And that includes things like encryption, immutability, logical separation of data and so forth. >> Paul: We know that ransomware is a scourge on-premises, typically begins with the end users, end user workstation. How does ransomware work in the cloud? And do the cloud providers have adequate protections against ransomware? Or can they? >> Samuel: Yeah, it's a, it's a fantastic question as well. I think when we look at the cloud, one of the common misconceptions is as we transition workloads to the cloud, we are transitioning responsibility to that cloud provider. And again, it's a misconception, right? It is a shared responsibility between the cloud provider in this case, AWS and the user. So as we transition these workloads across varying different services, infrastructure, platform, software as a service, we're always, always transitioning varying degrees of responsibility. But we always own our data and it is our responsibility to protect and secure that data, for the actual infrastructure components, the hardware that is on the onus of the cloud provider, so I'd say that's the major difference. >> Is ransomware as big a threat in the cloud as it is on-prem? >> Absolutely. There's no difference between a ransomware attack on-premises or in the cloud. Irrespective of where you are choosing to run your workloads, you need to have that comprehensive cybersecurity strategy in order to defend against that and ultimately recover as well if there's a successful attempt. >> Yeah, it's, ooh, okay. Let's get us out at the dark shadows real quick (laughs) and bring us back to a little bit of the business use case here. A lot of people using AWS. What do you think are some of the considerations, they should have when they're thinking about this, thinking about growing their (indistinct)? >> Well, if we're going to stick down the dark shadows, the cybersecurity piece. >> We can be the darkness. >> You and me kind of dark shadows business. >> Yeah, yeah. >> We can go rainbows and unicorns, nice and happy if you like. I think there's a number of considerations they need to keep up. Security is, is, is number one. The next piece is around the recovery as well. I think folks, when they, when we talk about backup and recovery, the focus is always on the backup piece of it. But again, we need to focus on why we're doing the backup. It's the recovery, it's the recovery component. So making sure that we have a clean verifiable backup that we're able to restore data from. Can we do that in a, in efficient and timely manner? And I think the other major consideration is looking at the entirety of our environments as well. Very few companies are a hundred percent sole sourced on a single cloud provider. It is typically hybrid cloud. It's around 80% of organizations are hybrid, right? So they have their on-premises data and they also have workloads running in one or multiple clouds. And when it comes to backup and recovery of all of these different infrastructures and environments, the way that we approach it is very different. And that often leads to multiple different point products from multiple different vendors. The average company utilizes three different backup products, sometimes as many as seven and that can introduce a management nightmare that's very complex, very resource intensive, expensive. So looking at the entirety of the environment and looking to utilize a backup provider that can cover the entirety of that environment while centralizing everything under a single management console helps folks be a lot more efficient, a lot more cost effective and ultimately better when it comes to data protection. >> Amazon and all cloud providers really are increasingly making regions transparent. Just at this conference, Amazon introduced failover controls from multiple multi-region access points. So you can, you can failover from one access from one region to another. What kind of challenges does that present to you as a backup provider? >> I don't think it represents any challenges. When we look at the native durability of the cloud, we look at availability zones, we look at multi-region failover. That is, that durability is ultimately founded on, on replication. And I wouldn't say that replication and backup, you would use one or the other. I would say that they are complimentary. So for replication, that is going to help with the failover scenario, that durability component. But then backup again is that independent copy. Because if we look at replication, if let's say the source data were to be compromised by ransomware or there was accidental deletion or corruption, that's simply going to be copied over to the target destination as well. Having that backup as an independent copy, again compliments that strategy as well. >> Paul: You need it in either, in any scenario. >> Samuel: In any scenario. >> I think the average person would probably say that backup is not the most exciting technology aspect of this industry. But, but you guys certainly made, build a great business on it. What excites you about what's coming in backup? What are the new technologies, new advancements that perhaps we haven't seen and productized yet that you think are going to change the game? >> I think actually what we offer right now is the most exciting piece which is just choice flexibility. So Veeam again is synonymous with VMware backup but we cover a multitude of environments including AWS, containerized workloads, Kubernetes physical systems and the mobility pieces is critical because as organizations look to act on their digital transformation, cloud first initiatives, they need to be able to mobilize their workloads across different infrastructures, maybe from on-premises into the cloud, one cloud to another, maybe it's cloud back to on-premises, 'cause we do also see that. That flexibility of choice is what excites me about Veeam because it's ultimately giving the users best in class data protection tool sets without any prescriptive approach from us in terms of where you should be running your workloads. That is the choice that you use. >> Yeah, Veeam is definitely more than VMware. We actually had a chance to chat with you all like KubeCon and CloudNativeCon in Detroit. So we, we've seen the multitude of things that you touch. I want to bring it back to something and something kind of fun because you talked a lot about the community and being able to serve them. It's very clear, actually I shouldn't say this, I shouldn't say it's very clear, but to me it appears clear that community is a big priority for Veeam. I just want to call this out 'cause this was one of the cooler pieces of swag. You all gave out a hundred massage guns. Okay, very hot topic. Hot Christmas gift for 2022. I feel like Vanna White right now. And, but I thought that I was actually really compelled by this because we do a swag segment on theCUBE but it's not just about the objects or getting stuff. It's really about who's looking out for their community and how are they saying thanks. I mean, swag is a brand activation but it's also a thank you and I loved that you were giving out massage guns to the AWS Heroes and Community Builders. >> Yep. >> What role does community play in the culture and the product development at Veeam? >> So community has always been at the heart of Veeam. If you have a look at pretty much every single development across all of our versions, across all of our products it's always did by the community, right? We have a wonderful Veeam forum where we got 400,000 plus users actively providing feedback on the product what they would like to see. And that is ultimately what steers the direction of the product. Of course market trends and technology chain. >> A couple other factors, I'm sure. >> A couple of other factors, but community is huge for us. And the same goes for AWS. So, you know, talking with the AWS Heroes, the Community Builders helps Veeam reach further into that, into that community and the AWS user base and empower those folks with data protection tools and massage guns, when your feet are tired from, you know, being standing on them all day in Vegas. >> (laughs) Yeah, well, I mean, everybody, everybody's working hard and it's nice to say, it's nice to say, thank you. So I love, I love to hear that and it's, it's clear from the breadth of products that you're creating, the ways that you're supporting your customers that you already, they care a lot about community. We have a new challenge on theCUBE this year at AWS re:Invent. Think of it as an Instagram reel of your thought leadership, your hot take on the show, key themes as we look into 2023. What do you think is the most important story or trend or thing going on here at the show? >> I think it's just the continuation of cybersecurity and the importance of backup as a comprehensive cybersecurity strategy. You know, some folks might say that secure backup is your last line of defense. Again, ransomware is relentless. These folks are going to keep coming and even if they're successful, it's not a one and done thing. It's going to happen again and again and again. So, you know, we have a look around the show floor, the presentations there is a huge cybersecurity focus and really just what folks should be doing as their best practice to secure their AWS environments. >> That's awesome. Well, Paul, any final, any final thoughts or questions? >> I just quickly, you've mentioned data security, you mentioned data protection and backup sort of interchangeably but they're not really the same thing, are they? I mean, what businesses do you see Veeam as being here? >> I would say that we are a data protection company because of, yes, there is backup, but there's also the replication component. There's the continuous data protection component where we've got, you know, near-zero RTOs and then we again look at the cybersecurity components of that. What can we do to really protect that data? So I would say that the two are different. Backup is a subset of data protection. >> Sam, thank you so much for being here with us on theCUBE. It's been a super insightful conversation. Hopefully we'll get you back soon and more of the teams, there seem to be celebrities here with us on theCUBE. Paul Gillan, thank you so much for being here with me. >> Pleasure Savannah. >> And I'm glad we get to celebrate our first re:Invent and most importantly, thank you to the audience for tuning in. Without you, we don't get to hang out here in fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada, where we're live from the show floor at AWS re:Invent. My name is Savannah Peterson with Paul Gillan. We're theCUBE and we are the leading source for high-tech coverage. (bright music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AI ops Virtual Forum Brought to you by Broadcom Welcome back to the Broadcom AI Ops Virtual Forum Lisa Martin here talking with Usman Naseer Global Product Management at Verizon we spend Welcome back. >>Uh huh. Hello, Good >>to see you. So 2020 The year of that needs no explanation. With the year of massive challenges, I wanted to get your take on the challenges that organizations are facing this year as the demand to deliver digital products and services has never been higher. >>Yeah, I e I think this is something is so close to all the part part right? It's something that's impacted the whole world equally. And I think regardless off which industry you win, you have been impacted by this in one form or the other and the i c t industry, the information and communication technology industry. You know, Verizon being really massive player in that whole arena, it has just been sort of struck with this massive confirmation that we have talked about for a long time. We have talked about these remote surgery capabilities whereby you got patients in Kenya were being treated by experts sitting in London or New York and also this whole consciousness about, you know, our carbon footprint and being environmentally conscious. This pandemic has taught a school of that and brought this to the forefront off organizational priority, right? The demand. I think that Zaveri natural consequence of everybody sitting at home. And the only thing that can keep things still going is the data communication, Right? But I would just say that that is what kind of at the heart of all of this. Just imagine if we are to realize any of these targets that the world is world leadership is setting for themselves. Hey, we have >>to be carbon >>neutral by Xia as a country as a geography, etcetera etcetera. You know, all of these things require you to have this remote working capability this remote interaction, not just between human but machine to machine interaction. And this is a unique value chain which is now getting created that you've got people we're communicating with other people or were communicating with other machines. But the communication is much more. I won't even use the term really time because we've used real time for voice and video, etcetera. We're talking low latency microsecond to see and making that can either cut somebody's, you know, um, our trees or that could actually go and remove the tumor, that kind of stuff. So that has become a reality. Everybody's asking for it. Remote learning, being an extremely massive requirement where, you know, we've had to enable these thes virtual classrooms ensuring the type of connectivity, ensuring the type of type of privacy which is just so, so critical. You can't just have everybody you know, Go on the internet and access the data source. You have to be. I'm sorry about the integrity and security of >>that. They've >>had the foremost. So I think all of these things, Yes. We have not been caught off guard. We were should be pretty forward looking in our, you know, plans in our evolution. But yes, it does this fast track a journey that we would probably the least we would have taken in three years. It has brought that down to two quarters where we had to execute them. >>Right? Massive acceleration. All right, so you articulated the challenges really well and a lot of the realities that many of our viewers air facing. Let's talk now about motivations ai ops as a tool as a catalyst for helping organizations overcome those challenges. >>So, yeah, now all that I said you can imagine, you know, it requires microsecond the sea and making which human being on this planet can do microsecond the sea and making on complex network infrastructure, which is impacting, and user applications which have multitudes off effect. You know, in real life, I used the example of a remote surgeon. Just imagine, if you know, even because you just lose your signal on the quality of that communication for that microsecond, it could be the difference between killing somebody in saving somebody's life. Is that particular? We talk about autonomous vehicles way talk about the transition to electric vehicles, smart motorways, etcetera, etcetera in federal environment. How is all of that going to work? You have so many different components coming in. You don't just have a natural can security anymore. You have software defined networking that's coming becoming a part of this. You have mobile edge computing that is rented for the technologies. Five g enables we're talking augmented reality. We're talking virtual reality all of these things require that resource is. And while we carbon conscious, we don't just wanna build a billionaire, a terrorist on the planet, right? We we have to make sure that resource is air given on demand and the best way of re sources can be given on demand and could be most efficient. Is that we're making is being made at million microsecond. And those resource is our accordingly being distribute. Right? If you're 10 flying on, people sipping their coffee is having teeth talking to somebody else. You know, just being away on holiday. I don't think we're gonna be able to handle that world that we have already stepped into. Risen's five g has already started businesses on the transformational journey where they're talking about end user experience, personalization. You're gonna have, you know, events where people are going to go. And it's going to be three dimensional experiences that are purely customized for you. How How does that all happen without this intelligence having their and a network with all of these multiple layers assaults spectrum, it doesn't just need to be intuitive. Hey, this is my private I p traffic. This is public traffic. You know it has to now be into or this is an application that to privatize over another has to be intuitive to the criticality in the context, off those transactions again that surgeons surgery is much more important than husband sitting and playing a video game. >>Yeah, I'm glad that you think that that's excellent. Let's go into some specific use cases. What are in some of the examples that you gave? Let's kind of dig deeper into some of that. What you think are the lowest hanging fruit for organizations, kind of pan industry to go after here. >>Excellent, right? And I think this just like different ways to look at the lowest timing food. Like for somebody like Verizon, who is the managed services provider, you know, very comprehensive medicines. But we obviously have food timing much lower than potentially for some of our customers who want to go on that journey, right? So for them to just >>go and try and >>harness the power of help, the food's might be a bit higher hanging. But for somebody like God, the immediate ones would be to reduce the number off alarms that are being generated by these overlays services. You've got your basic network. Then you've got your software defined networking. On top of that, you have your hybrid clouds. You have your edge computing coming on top of that, you know? So ALOF this means if there is an outrage on one device on the network, gonna make this very real for everybody, right? It's right out. I'm not divisive. Network does not stop all of those multiple applications for monitoring tools from raising havoc and raising thousands off alarms and everyone capacity. If people are attending to those thousands off alarms, it's like you having a police force. And there's a burglary in one bank and the alarm goes off in $50. How you gonna make the best use of your police force? You're gonna go investigate 50 banks? You wanna investigate one where the problem is. So it's as realize that and I think that's the first wind where people can save so much cost, which is currently being wasted. And resource is running around primary figure stuff up immediately. Anti this with network and security network and security is something which has eluded even the most. You know, amazing off brings in or engineering. Well, we took it. We have network expert, separate people. Security experts separate people to look for different things. But there are security events that can impact the performance of the network and then use your application, cetera, etcetera, which could be falsely attributed to the network. And then if you've got multiple parties, which are then which have to clear stakeholders, you can imagine the blame game that goes on pointing fingers, taking names, not taking responsibility. That is how all this happened. This is the only way to bring it all together to say Okay, this is what takes priority. If there's an event that has happened, what is its correlation to the other downstream systems, devices, components and user applications. And it subsequently, you know, like isolating into the right cause where you can most effectively resolve that problem. Certainly, I would say on demand virtualized resource virtualized resource is the heart and soul of the spirit of status that you can have them on them up so you can automate the allocation of these. Resource is based on, you know, customers consumption, their peaks, their crimes. All of that comes in. You see Hey, typically on a Wednesday, their traffic goes up significantly from this particular application. You know, going to this particular data center, you could have this automated this AI ops, which is just providing those resource, is, you know, on demand and tell us to have a much better commercial engagement with customers and just a much better service assurance model. And then one more thing on top of that, which is very critical, is that, as I was saying, giving that intelligence to the network to start having context of the criticality of a transaction that doesn't exist to it. You can't have that because for that you need to have this, you know, multi layer data. You need to have multiple system which are monitoring and controlling different aspects of your overall and user application value chain to be communicating with each other. And, you know, that's that's the only way to sort of achieve that goal. And that only happens with AI off. It's not possible with them. You can paradise Comdex. >>So Guzman, you clearly articulated some obvious low hanging for use cases that organizations can go after. Let's talk now about some of the considerations you talked about the importance of the network in AI ops. The approach, I assume, needs to be modular support needs to be heterogeneous. Talk to us about some of those key considerations that you would recommend >>absolutely. So again, basically starting with the network. Because if there is, if the network sitting at the middle of all of this is not working, then things from communicate with each other, right? And the cloud doesn't work. Nothing. None of this person has hit the hardest all of this. But then subsequently, when you talk about machine to machine communication or i o T. Which is the biggest transformation to spend, every company is going priority now to drive those class efficiencies enhancements. We've got some experience. The integrity off the tab becomes paramount, right? The security integrity of that. How do you maintain integrity off your detail beyond just the secured network components that Trevor right? That's where you get into the whole arena Blockchain technology where you have these digital signatures or barcodes that machine then and then an intelligent system is automatically able to validate and verify the integrity of the data and the commands that are being executed by those and you determine. But I think the terminal. So I o. T machines, right, that is paramount. And if anybody is not keeping that into their equation, that in its own self, is any eye off system that is therefore maintaining the integrity off your commands and your quote that sits on those those machines Right. Second, you have your network. You need to have any off platform, which is able to rationalize all the fat network information, etcetera. And couple that with that. The integrity peace. Because for the management, ultimately, they need to have a co haven't view off the analytics, etcetera, etcetera. They need to. They need to know where the problems are again, right? So let's see if there's a problem with the integrity off the commands that are being executed by a machine. That's a much bigger problems than not being able to communicate with that machine. And the first thing because you'd rather not talk to the machine or haven't do anything if it's going to start doing the wrong thing, So I think that's where it's just very intuitive. It's natural. You have to have subsequently if you have some kind of say and let me use that use case Off Autonomous comes again. I think we're going to see in the next five years it's much water rates, etcetera. It will set for autonomous because it's much more efficient. It's much more space, etcetera, etcetera. So whether that equation you're gonna have systems which will be specialist in looking at aspects and Trump's actions related to those systems, for example, an autonomous moving vehicle's brakes are much more important than the Vipers, Right? So this kind of intelligence, there will be multiple systems who have to sit and nobody has to. One person has to go and on these systems, I think these systems should be open source enough that you are able to integrate them, right? If something sitting in the cloud you were able to integrate for that with obviously the regard off the security and integrity off their data, that has two covers from one system to the extremely. >>So I'm gonna borrow that integrity theme for a second as we go into our last question. And that is this kind of take a macro. Look at the overall business impact that AI ops can help customers make. I'm thinking of, you know, the integrity of teams aligning business and I t. Which we probably can't talk about enough. We're helping organizations really effectively measure KP eyes that deliver that digital experience that all of us demanding consumers expect. What's the overall impact? What would you say in separation? >>So I think the overall impact is a lot. Of course, that customers and businesses give me term got prior to the term enterprises defense was inevitable. There's something that for the first time will come to light. And it's something that is going to, you know, start driving cost efficiencies and consciousness and awareness within their own business, which is obviously going to have, you know, abdominal kind of an effect. So what example being that, you know, you have a problem? Isolation? I talked about network security, this multilayered architectural which enables this new world of five g um, at the heart of all of it. It is to identify the problem to the source, right? Not be bogged down by 15 different things that are going wrong. What is causing those 15 things to go wrong, right that speed to isolation and its own self can make millions and millions off dollars to organizations every organization. Next one is obviously overall impacted customer experience. The five g waas. You can have your customers expecting experiences from you, even if you're not expecting to deliver them in 2021 2022. You'll have customers asking for those experiences or walking away if you do not provide those experiences. So for it's almost like a business can do nothing. Every year they don't have to reinvest if they just want to die on the wine. Businesses want to remain relevant. Businesses want to adopt the latest and greatest in technology, which enables them to, you know, have that superiority and continue it. So from that perspective that continue ity, we're ready that there are intelligence system sitting, rationalizing information and making this in supervised by people, of course, who were previously making some of those here. >>That was a great summary because you're right, you know, with how demanding consumers are. We don't get what we want. Quickly we turn right, we go somewhere else, and we could find somebody that can meet those expectations. So it was spent Thanks for doing a great job of clarifying the impact and the value that AI ops can bring to organizations. That sounds really now is we're in this even higher demand for digital products and services, which is not going away. It's probably going to only increase. It's table stakes for any organization. Thank you so much for joining me today and giving us your thoughts. >>Pleasure. Thank you. >>We'll be right back with our next segment.

>> Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's the Cube. Covering AWS re:Inforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web services and its ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. It's the Cube's live coverage in Boston, Massachusetts for Amazon Webster's AWS re:Inforce: their first inaugural conference around security, cloud security. I'm John Furrier with my host Dave Vellante. If you're talking about security, you can not talk about cybersecurity, how it impacts government, society and commercial. We've got two great guests here from Telos, leader in cyber out of D.C. AJ Turcot, business development, and Tom Ryder, VP of commercial sales at Telos. Great to see you guys. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you, John- (A.J. talks over) >> Thanks, John, great to be here. >> I've been intrigued by Telos over the years. One, great company you guys, so congratulations. John Wood is phenomenal CEO. He's been hanging around for a long, long time. He's seen many cyber waves in security. You guys have a lot of experience. Now, we're talking about modernization of government. A week and a half ago we were at AWS Public Sector Summit which is this show in DC with Theresa Carlson's team. That's all about modernizing government, public sector, procurement, modernization in technology cloud. Here, the security conference feels the same kind of vibe for security. Not so much modernization but kind of level up, get faster, get better, get stronger. You know, everything's great, now lets go do it. So, similar kind of experience. You guys are in the middle of both those worlds. >> Yes. >> What's your impression? Are these coming together? Are they two separate? What's your impression of the show? >> Uh. It's, security is job zero. People have been saying that for a long time. The rubber's meeting the road now. You can see, this is, this wouldn't have been this big years ago. So, we're happy to be here and be part of this. Our company has been focused on cybersecurity since the word 'go'. And we're definitely seeing you can't do modernization without baking security in. Everybody gets it. It's not a bow tie any more. Wouldn't you say? >> Absolutely and it goes from the software development of the life cycle all the way up the stack. Little anecdote, John has been around for a long time. He's actually in the, and he'll hate me for saying this, but he's the longest standing CEO of a company in Virginia right now at 25 years. (laughter) We've been around for a long time. We understand cyber security and we've seen it morph as the various platforms have evolved. But, definitely a great show. A lot of vendors: some new, some old. We meet some friends that were with one that are now with another. And asking them why they changed and they say, "Well, the old school and the new school, different methodologies, different ways to approach it." But the problem fundamentally stays the same. >> Everyone else uses the old guard, uses the term 'old guard, new guard.' That's Jazzy and Theresa's word. But it really is about the transformation of that all companies are becoming security companies. They say that about media. All companies are becoming media companies. You inherently have in this horizontal impact of security. It used to be that this firms does security. You hire them and they come in, they do the job. But now, to where you got to bake it in, you start to see the brands: Microsoft, all these brands that were once software companies in general purpose areas really getting deeper into security. And then companies themselves like Capital One, Liberty Mutual, they're building out. >> Right. >> And potentially now turning it from a cost center to a revenue center. So, the model's upside down right now in a good way. What's that doing to the industry? And do you believe that it's happening then too? What do you see happening? >> The challenge in front of us right now is security has to keep up the pace and the scale of the cloud and the modern world. I know that we've had to change our tunes in our product suite to be able to, you know, test and demonstrate compliance at pace and at scale. Otherwise, you're just slowing down development. I mean, the real beauty of the cloud is, uh, the speed at which you can fail, recover, get the feedback loop, move forward and security's now at that pace and I think you'll see around here the companies that are offering that, not just a new coat of paint on a traditional offering are going to excel in this space. >> Well, this is why I like what you guys do because you talk to practitioners. They say their number one challenge is how to keep up with that pace. I mean, you could talk to one person at Amazon and no one person knows all the services or they think 'Oh, Amazon doesn't have that or oh, yes they do have that." So, having a partner like you guys to help navigate that pace of change is critical. So, how have you made that, you know, a tailwind for you guys. And what are customers telling you that they need help with? >> Uh, what we, our end of it, the piece of the elephant we touch, >> Yeah. is, um, the customers are allowed to use the cloud. They're encouraged to use the cloud. They're going to school to get trained and certified. But you can't go at this pace unless you are authorized. Right? You need permission. Nobody's allowed to put in the plug without their permission. And that's where our end of it is. And we've had to really retool to go at this cloud pace. I've been at Telos for over nineteen years and it's exciting now. And when we had the opportunity to go into the commercial side of things, I really lept at that because we're now building, you know, as I said, tooling out to keep at this pace of 'how do I test? Don't be a detractor. Don't be a slower-downer.' and, you know, it's the way we got to be. >> Take a minute to explain your product offerings for the commercial sector. What are you guys offering? What's the value proposition? >> Sure, um, our product suite is called Exacta. It's a mature product in the fed space. It's been around for nineteen years. And it's in very wide use in the fed space to operationalize their assessment and authorization: the NIST risk management framework. We're now seeing NIST cybersecurity standards are getting a lot of traction in spaces outside the fed. If you're a software company like we see around here, you want to business in the fed, you got to get a fed ramp authorization. Exacta's tooled to do that now. We're seeing state and local government embracing NIST cybersecurity standards. The defense industrial base has NIST 800-171. It's built into the defense acquisition regulations. You need to corporately meet these security controls. So, you know, it's not just for an agency on its own anymore. Everyone's getting in the game. >> So those standards are moving to commercial? >> Yes. >> You guys were baked out, bulletproof hardened product you're bringing that into commercial? >> And I would say if you take spreadsheets off the table, Exacta is the number one NIST cybersecurity automation and management platform. >> Yes. >> Spreadsheets will always be number one. It's like- >> Spread sheets are dead sheets >> Other than the pie chart. (mumbling) >> Right, right. >> So, you know, it used to be, and I'm wondering if it still is, the public sector would look to the commercial for sort of best practice, they might be a little slower to adopt things, and there's certainly examples of that today. You see Theresa at public sector announces something that maybe Amazon announced a year ago and now it's available public sector. But the cloud feels a little bit different. You've had cloud first mandates, things like Jedi. Is that trend changing? You just sort of gave us an example where certification's bringing that up to commercial, Is there still a wide gap between commercial adoption and public sector adoption? >> Well, I think one thing that we see is a lot of commercial or government entities built data centers because they had to. Right? Now, you see entities that have, you know, big robust data center infrastructure, they like what they do in there but not necessarily keeping up that data center. So, they're looking, they're all going to the cloud in varying degrees of speed. But nobody wants to be in the data center business like they used to. >> Charles Phillips from Infor says, 'friends don't let friends build data centers." >> Data centers, right. (laughter) >> That's right. AJ, how about some customer use cases and examples where you guys are helping them? What's their challenge? Give us some real-world experiences. >> Sure, sure. So, one of the industries that's highly regulated is financial industry. And, you know, we talk about healthcare with HIPAA, and different regulations. But in financials, they're really hit from regulatory bodies throughout the country. And they can change from state to state and a lot of times it just piles on top. So, one of the main issues that these companies face is audit fatigue. Internal audit teams to make sure they're compliant, external audit requests that come in, and they're really looking for a way to reduce this audit fatigue. One of the ways of doing it is to operationalize as we do with out tool, the systems internally to make sure that you can be compliant and, I'll throw out a phrase here, we believe strongly that you apply good cybersecurity hygiene, a byproduct of that will be compliance. So if foundationally things are good and you're taken care of cybersecurity from the get go, you know, you might have to tweak a few things to demonstrate compliance but you will be able to comply to many different regulatory products. >> So being built in from the beginning. >> Being baked in, right. So, what this particular organization, they've been around for a hundred years, they're in the financial sector, they've got a lot of regulations and state to state, as I mentioned, are different, they were really looking, and they use all the tools, they've got them all. They have data centers. They have one of the largest networks outside of the defense in the country. So they're quite big. And they were really feeling this audit fatigue. Eight hundred auditors working day in and day out to get, to meet these requirements are thrown at them. We're able to help them take the process from months to weeks. So, just there, there's an economy of time as well. So, the resources can really go off and do what their mission is without having to, you know, daily deal with the grind of going through spreadsheets, for example. >> Yeah. >> And the different systems. >> Do you, do you discern any patterns in terms of can you get more specific on what they're doing with that freed up budget or the digital transformation. Are they developing apps? Are they retraining people? How, how are they dealing with that? >> Sure. In this particular case, a lot of training internally. And it's like moving a cruise ship, you know? >> Yeah. >> It doesn't turn on a dime so you have direction on the top. They take primary focus might change and they have study groups. Interesting about them is they don't make, they make group decisions. So, they do, they're very big on data analytics. They're all actuaries I guess and they're used to that. And they want to look at the value. And I think that's something that we see. That's a tendency we see throughout all the different industries we work with. The demonstration of value. So, it might be neat. It might be fun. It might be more secure, less secure. Do we accept the risk? What value does that bring to the organization? And what they've done through training, through trying to change the old guard, you know, it's also reorganizing their systems internally and how they do things. Not just tools. >> So you guys got to love the fact that Amazon decided to have a security focused show. I mean, every show Amazon does is security focused but dedicated. (mumbles) You were mentioning the other day that, you know, a lot of partners here, a lot of vendors, but actually it's very attendee heavy event. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> This is now like a huge COMDEX show floor. A lot of practitioners, sec ops guys, >> Yes. >> You know, developers. What are your thoughts on why Amazon did this? And your reaction to this. >> Well, Amazon has, you know, like we said, security is job zero for everyone at Amazon. They put their money where their mouth is. This was not an experiment. This was an eventuality. And, you know, there's zero doubt they're going continue to do this year on, year round. It's going to get bigger. >> Houston next year. >> Houston. >> Kind of an interesting choice: Houston. >> Yeah. >> It's going to be hot in June. >> Stay in the air conditioning. (lauging) >> I wish they'd stay in Boston. >> Yeah. >> I like Boston. >> I like Boston, too. >> Better than Houston. >> Yes. >> But the show is to your point, some dev ops and sec ops. So, again, there's bus dev folks here. >> Yep. >> You got geeks here. Not a lot of CEOs of big companies because it's not a glam converse. There's no big fanfare announcements. The announcements are pretty meaty: VPC traffic mirroring huge announcement, security you have general ability, not a surprise, but just smaller announcements. >> A lot of CSOs obviously. >> A lot of CSOs. >> Yeah, I'd say CSO in that vertical down. >> Yeah. >> The CSO, this is CSOs cloud security show. A lot of things getting invested in. Seems to be heavy activity. >> So, going into this when it was announced, you know, AJ and I had our hands up right away saing, "Let's do this." And then we get here and we're like 'okay, is this going to be a direct hit for us?' and I wouldn't say that everyone we talk to's a direct hit, but everyone that comes by the booth has some understanding of what we do. And there's been no wasted time. We're having a lot of good conversations. >> They're right where you guys are. They know what you do, the value to them. >> Right. >> All right, so here's a question for you on the show, given that you guys have this perspective so many years at Telos and cyber, shipping a great product, now commercial's changing cloud scale, cloud security, what do you think the most important stories are that should be told? That the media should be telling? Or maybe they are telling and need to be amplified. Or isn't being told that should be told. What are the top stories coming out of this event and this industry right now that should be told? >> I think that the two trends I'm seeing is that, like we said before, um, building and maintaining data centers is not, it's not cool anymore. And you see the trends of all these entities getting out from under that and they might be making a big commitment to the cloud or phasing out their data centers over time, but that is happening. And I want to read more about it because that helps us, you know, target who's going to be most receptive to our message. And then the other thing, like we said before, the security at scale and at pace. I know we've had to retool for it. The other companies here that are built for that are going to succeed. >> Yeah. >> There's an appetite for that. >> AJ, anything to add on that? >> Good point. No, very good point. At scale and to be able to pivot quickly and someone mentioned before to be able to fail, retool, start again. >> Yep. >> But to have, it's really essential to have security baked in. That confidentiality, integrity, availability of data, you know, the basics. >> You guys have partnered well with Amazon in the public sector now you're in commercial. Not a lot has changed. Amazon is still Amazon. Question for you is what are you guys think about what the opportunity is to differentiate is? You guys have your solution: speed and scale. Totally agree? (agreement) Size, speed, scale. You guys take the benefits of that by partnering with Amazon. But as it gets bigger and bigger, you guys still have to differentiate help customers. >> Yeah. >> How, how, what is the formula for success? You don't just do things, do a relationship saying "we're done" now collect the business. They're moving so fast that if you don't iterate on top of it you die seems to be the playbook. What do you guys think the value for ecosystem partners, the formula to be successful, what does that, what does that formula for, with an eighth of this cloud scale? >> Well, you know, everyone would just love to hitch your partner wagon to a, you know, something that's rising and not do a lot of work. But, that's not the way we roll. I think we get in a great partnership with Amazon because we have a lot of similarities, especially the customer obsession. You know, we want the customer to be successful and we ride along on that train. That's how we're successful. >> Great. Well, guys, congratulations, great to see you here. >> Likewise. >> It'll be a good journey. Cube's kicking off their security coverage at this event. Obviously cloud security changing the game. >> Yep. >> And it's got to level up with dev ops, agility. You guys have been doing. Thanks for sharing your insights. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. Thanks for having us. >> It was terrific. >> Cube coverage continues here in Boston for AWS: reInforce. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Stay tuned for more coverage after this short break. (digital music)

>> From Seattle, Washington, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat. The Cloud Native Computing Foundation and it's ecosystem partners. [techno Music] >> Okay, welcome back everyone. It's theCUBE's live coverage in Seattle for KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2018. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Stu Miniman. Breaking down all the action. Talking to all the thought leaders, all the experts, all the people making it happen. We're here with Aparna Sinha who's the group product manager, Kubernetes, Google Cloud. Also one of the power women of the Cloud at Google, according the Forbes. I wrote the story. Great to see you again. >> Thank you, great to be here with you. >> Thanks for coming on. >> CUBE alumni. Great to have you on. I want to get your prospective. One when you've seen a lot of action, certainly overseeing the group engineering team at Google and all the Kubernetes action. A lot of contribution, a lot of activity, that you guys are leading. >> Yes. >> And quite frankly enabling and contributing to the community. So, congratulations and thanks for that work. Kubernetes certainly looking good. People are pumped up. >> Very much. >> 8,000 people. A lot of activity. A lot of new things around that you guys are always kind of bringing into, the Geo, knative, a lot things. You gave a key note. What's your focus here this year? What's the message from Google? >> Yeah, well as you pointed out, this is the largest KubeCon ever. 8,000 people, 2,000 on the wait list. And people are telling me here that this is the... This is here to stay, right? It's in the early majority going to the mainstream very much like you kind of think about virtualization was 10 years ago. So that's the momentum that I'm seeing here, that I'm hearing here. My keynote was about the community. Thanking the community first of all. So I talked about how open-source really, success in contingent on contribution. And so, I started by showing the contribution over the last one year, the companies that are contributing. And 80% of contributions are by at least 10 entities. One of them is individual contributors. 40% percent I think was Google, which is still staggeringly high. And then the next highest was Red Hat. And so I think in many of the keynotes, we've been calling out the contributors because it's really important. 1.13, the 13th release of Kubernetes shipped last week. A lot of stability, a lot of GA features, and the uptake in the enterprise. The other thing I called out was just the amount of job opportunity in Kubernetes >> Yeah >> 230% growth in the last year. You see here so many customers that are here to talk about their experience. But also they're here to hire. >> Yeah. And there recruiters on the floor, so it's been I think a huge economic value add. And we feel very proud of that. >> Yeah, Aparna, great point. We've been talking about the end users. I always loved... There's a job board right outside the hall here and it's just covered. Big giant white board there. Bring us inside a little bit. I mean Google's always fascinating people. What's the hiring situation there? What's your team lookin' like? Is anybody smart enough to actually go work there? >> Google, I think we've been very, very fortunate in that we've had the original board team that started the Kubernetes project. And so we have a really, really deep bench because we've been running containers since the beginning. So now 15 years of experience with that, which many people tell me, I think that the reason that Kubernetes is so successful is because it's not new actually, right? >> Yeah >> It's been tried and true at scale. So, we have quite a bit of that, but we've been building this community and a lot of folks have been hired in through the community-- >> Yeah >> into Google. And really amazing, amazing people. So yeah. >> The thing about we had Brian Grant on yesterday and Tim Hockin -- Yes. >> Who was talking about some of those early board days. >> Yes. I want to ask you your point of about the hiring because I think this is a interesting dynamic. Open-source is key to your strategy. We've talked many times about how you guys are committed to open source, but what's interesting is not just net new jobs are available, we're seeing a revitalization around traditional roles like the network engineer under Kubernetes. Looking at the policy knobs that your folks pointed out that's... They think it's underutilized. And then on top of Kubernetes, new things are going on that's getting the app kind of server guy-- >> Yeah. >> Kind of energized. >> Yeah. >> It's kind of enabling a lot of thing, actions that's transforming existing jobs. >> That's right. >> And bringing new ones. >> Talk about that dynamic because you see it from both sides. >> Yes >> You've got SREs, site reliable engineers. >> Yes >> You've got developers. But, Now enterprises are now trying to adopt... >> That's right >> You guys are hitting that note. Talk about that dynamic. >> That's right, so I've been talking to a lot of customers here, it's been non-stop. I've not been able to attend any talks or keynotes. And I'm seeing two things. One there's the kind of operations now called platform teams. And they're under tremendous pressure. They're doing incredible work. Incredible. And they're energized. They're really... So one of the customers I was talking to was moving from VMs on EC2 to containers on GCE on Kubernetes. Google Cloud. And in the last one year, they looked... Honestly, they looked miserable because they have worked so hard in doing that transfomation. Turning their application from a VM-based application into containers. But you could also see that they were so happy and so successful because of the impact that it's had. And so and then I asked them so like, "What is driving that?" This is different customer. What is driving that? And it's really... As soon they get that environment up and running, and this is a large enterprise bank that I was talking to, this other one, their developers are just all over it. And they have, they have hundreds of services running within six months. And they're like, "Well we just got this platform up. "We still have to figure how we're going to upgrade it." But it's... So those are the two constituents. The developers are happy. >> The integration and delivery changes the makeup of how teams work. So that's one thing we're seeing here. And the other one is just scale. >> Yeah. >> So that seems to be the area. Now I got to ask you, as you guys look at... As you guys are doing the work on the enterprise side, you guys, I know you're working hard, I talk to Jennifer a lot, Jennifer Lynn, as well and we've talked before, are used to doing the work. But there's still a lot more work done. Where do you guys see the work that this community value opportunities for participants in the eco-system to fill white spaces? Where are the value lines starting to be drawn? Can you comment? >> Yeah, so I see two or three different areas. One of the areas is of course hardening. And that's why Janet Quill gave the keynote about "Kubernetes is boring and that's a good thing". And that's been something we've been working on for the last year at least. Adding a lot more security capabilities. Adding a lot more just moving everything to GA, right? Adding a lot more hooks in the enterprise storage and into enterprise networking. Building up the training and building up the partners that'll do the implementations. All of those things I think are very, very healthy. >> Yeah. >> Cause I see them. You probably talked to the CNCF. They're helping a lot with the certification and the training. So that's one piece of enterprise adoption. I think the other piece is the developer experience. And that's where a lot of the talks here, my key note as well, I demoed Istio and Knative on top of GKE. The developer experience is ultimately this whole thing. My perspective, this whole thing is about making your developers more productive. And developers have been driving this transition. Again going back to those customer examples. So that's getting a lot easier. >> Yeah, Aparna, I'd love you to talk a little about Knative. So, I know the excitement is there. Products only been around for five months. I remember at your show last summer it was announce and roll. Trying to understand exactly what it is. It's like, wait, wait is serverless going to kill Kubernetes? And how does this fit? How does this work with all the various services in the Cloud? Maybe just understand where we are. >> Right. >> What it is, what it isn't. >> Right. >> Again, so the heritage of serverless, I'm going to go back to Google, right? We have the first serverless offering in the world like 10 years ago. And so that's based on containers. Underneath it's based on containers. That's why we knew that with Kubernetes that's the right foundation for building serverless. And it actually, I think, we sort of held back for the longest time. And a couple of years ago there were one, two, and then 15, and then 17 serverless frameworks that just kind of all popped up around Kubernetes, on top of Kubernetes. I remember the first demo in the community. Here's this serverless piece. And at some point, a little bit over a year ago we decided that actually serverless is really important to our customers, to our users. The majority of Kubernetes tends to be on-prem, actually. And so it's important to them to have serverless capabilities on-prem. So then we need to make sure it's stable and it's something that's standard. >> I think it's a really important point... I talked to some people that are in the serverless ecosystem that is living on a AWS and they say, "You can't build serverless on-prem "because then you're racking "and stacking and dealing with it." And it's not... We know there's servers underneath of it and it's just system calls and how we consume that. But maybe explain the nuances to how this is important and we understand it. >> Yeah. >> There's not like a solution out there. >> Yeah. >> Server meshes, there's a lot of options out there right now. >> Yeah. >> So. >> A lot of things, because this is an open-source community, a lot of things come from the users. So when the user says, "You know what, actually need "the serverless capability on-prem. "Why? "Because I've got this developer group and I don't want "them to have to muck with the infrastructure. "I don't want them to have access to the infrastructure. "I want to just give them a simple interface "where they're going to write their applications "and the rest is taken care of for them." Right? And then I want to be able to bill them on a per-use basis. So, it's... Yeah there's someone managing the server. Someone building actually the severless capability and that's the platform team. That's the guys that I talked about that are working very hard these days happily. But, working very hard. >> And these are the new personas, by the way-- >> Yeah. >> In the enterprise. This is new kind of new re-architecting of how enterprises are creating value. These new platform teams. >> Right. >> This is the opportunity. Well I got to ask you, you know everyone that watches theCUBE knows I'm a big fan of scale. Love Amazon scale. I love Google scale. I love the enterprise market. And I want to get your thoughts... I want you to take a minute to explain the culture at Google Cloud. Because it's a separate building. Give you an opportunity to share. But you guys are working hard to go after the enterprise. It's not like a new thing. But the enterprise is interesting. It's not so much the best technology that wins. It's grit. It's almost like a street fight. You got to go out. You got to win those battles. Get all the work done. Hit those features. You can't just roll into town and say we've got great technology. We're Google. You guys recognize this. And I want you to share the culture you guys are building and how you guys are attacking the enterprise. What's the guiding principles? What are some of the core tenants? >> Yeah, yeah. So you know my entire life has been spent in enterprise software. >> Yeah. >> I do think that enterprises respect Google Cloud. I work very closely with them. And they respect certainly the engineering prowess. Like, "Wow. I need that." >> Yeah. Right? Especially you see all these enterprises that are being transformed by technology. Their industry is being transformed by technology. Whether that's in transportation, or it's in retail, or it's in media. And they want the best. They want the latest. Right? And they also don't necessarily have the skills, like you said, right? So they're looking for a partner that'll both help them scale up but also provide them all of that guidance. And the one thing you asked about culture at Google. I think we are a revolutionary company. We are willing to do lots of things. Lots of things that you wouldn't expect. And that's why you saw GK on-prem from my team, right? The first, kind of, Kubernetes on-prem offering from a cloud provider. Managed by a cloud provider. And that's really... I mean we've seen tremendous, tremendous interest in that. Tremendous feedback from our users and new customers. People that hadn't thought about it. Hadn't thought about Google, necessarily before that have said, "Wow. If you are going to come and help me on-prem "with this, I'm ready. "Give it to me now. "Because I trust you and I know I want to go to the Cloud. "So it's the right step for me. "You have the right incentives." Right? "And you're the open cloud, which is important to me "because I may want to be multi cloud." So that's the piece that is... >> You got the enterprise chops. You've spent your whole career there. I know Jennifer as well. >> Yes. >> A lot of people you guys have hired. >> Right. >> The good news is you've got a market that's changing. So you don't have to come in and replicate the old IT. So that's an opportunity at Google. How are you guys attacking that, that beachhead? Because you have the check. What's the vibe? What's the grit? What's it like... How you guys attacking the enterprise? What do you see as opportunities knowing the enterprise of old-- >> Yeah >> As it shifts to new kind of method? >> Yeah. >> What's the core? >> I think about the problems the users are having. I think about what is the problem the customer is facing. And so... And then breaking that down and solving that for them. I mean that's what's important, right? And so some of the problems I see is one they need a developer platform. And the developer platform sometimes cannot be in the Cloud. When I talk to large financial institutions, there's so much compliance and regulation and things that have to be on-prem. That it has to be on-prem. And they try to move to the Cloud and some things will do it. But the majority, like 90% is on-prem. And so they need an agile development environment and there's no holding it back. Because, like I said, there's all this transformation. Their developers need that environment today. So you have to provide that. That's one use case. We provide an on-prem development and agile development environment. Best in class. Your developers are super happy. Your business is going to do well. The other thing I see, and I see this a lot in retail, but also in hospitality at some of these very kind of brick and mortar enterprises is the edge. They need a solution at their edge location. Thousands, these are thousands of branch locations. We've even got this use case with Chick-fil-A, right? And a lot of times this is... A lot of different use cases, but a lot of time the common thing is that they're collecting data. They're doing some processing at that site and then they're doing further processing in the Cloud. And so it's a connected, but an intimately, it's not always connected.... Intimately connected environment. So that's the second big use case. Edge retail or just edge. There's so many... For me, it's one of the most exciting. There's so many examples of that. >> Awesome. >> Aparna, first of all, just so many goodness I want to say thank you to Google because everything from I heard at the show Google wasn't giving out swag because it actually went to charitable givings instead of spending that money. One of the things we always look is open-source is, how much more value is being created for the eco-system not just the vendor that started it. And it is a really tough balance. We've seen it fail many times. Do you step too far back? And how much do you engage? How do you strike that bound? For the last five to 10 years, we've been saying, "Where is the independent place where we can have that "conversation about cloud?" We think found it at this show. I mean we've been here for three years now. Google Cloud, phenomenal event. Our teams loves to be there, but this feels like overnight has turned into oh wait, here's the show we were looking at to have that conversation. To have that commons where we can come together and there's so many diversity of people, diversity of projects in here. Many which have very disconnected from original Kubernetes and everything, so. It's been fascinating to watch and have to imagine your team is... When you watch that first piece go and everything that's built around it. It's got to be amazing. >> My team loves this event. We have literally I think 300 people here. And a lot of them are core maintainers. Everybody is a contributor, but they are core maintainers of the Kubernetes project. The Istio project. The Knative project. And I think the best thing here is just interacting with our users. Because this is a developer, this is a developer conference, primarily. There's a lot of businesses here. >> Yeah >> With their kind of director level executives. But primarily it's an action-oriented hands-on audience. And you just... These customer meetings that I have, we review their architecture and we're like... It's an engineer to engineer conversation. >> Yep. >> And so how can we make that better? And sometimes they're contributing back and it makes the whole project better. >> Yeah. The thing, too, is it's an engineering, it's a developer conference, true. But what's interesting about that evolution as it modernizes, those end users are developers. >> That's right. >> And so the end user aspect of this show. >> That's right. >> Is the developer piece. >> That's right. >> It never used to be like that. Used to be COMDEX or some big event. >> Yeah. >> And then people just selling their stuff. >> Yeah. >> Doing business. The end user participation... >> Yes. >> Is not a consumption conversation, it's a contribution. >> Right. And end users are all over the spectrum of sort of really, really hands-on. Very, very smart to just give me something that works and I respect all of that, right? And we were actually very far here in terms of GKE. Giving you something that you really don't need to get in, that's fully managed, right? But then on the other hand we had Uber on stage earlier today in their keynote talking about how they've built all of this advanced capability on GKE. And that's a power user. That's using all their capabilities. Like custom additions and an operator. And it's just really gratifying I think for us to work with them and for us to see the user base as well as the community. So the ecosystem. Google. I thinks it's very important for us to have and create economic opportunity for our partners. And you'll see that with GKE on-prem. We're partnering heavily on that one. And you'll see that also in our marketplace. Our Kubernetes marketplace. So many of the companies that have come out of this ecosystem are now part of selling through Google Cloud. >> Aparna, thank you for your time. I know you've had to move some things around to come here. Great to have you on. I love your leadership at Google, it's phenominal. You've got the enterprise chops building out heavily over there. Congratulations. And for more CUBE interviews check out theCUBE dot net. You can check out Aparna's other good news. Of course search her name on Forbes. I wrote a story about her featuring her. Talking about her background and her passion. Always great to have her on theCUBE and get some commentary from Google. Of course, theCUBE is breaking down live coverage. Been there from the beginning of KubeCon and now CloudNativeCon, the Linux Foundation. Bringing you all the analysis and insight. Be back with more coverage after this short break. [Techno Music]

>> Live from Seattle, Washington, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon, North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the cloud native computing foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage day three here, theCUBE covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2018 in Seattle. I'm John Furrier, with Stu Miniman, and Justin Warren here to break down the action. Justin Warren, as you know, is Guest Analyst for us at many events, Chief Analyst at PivotNine, coming all back over here again, to break it down. So we're going to dissect what's going on here at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon. This is, some say, me, the last stand to stop Amazon. Justin, good to see you. >> Good to see you as well, man. Stu, my first question is, as the show winds down, day three, a lot of people have left, all the big execs are gone, it's kind of last day, people coming together, party was last night, so we kind of see all the action, we kind of fished this pond dry, in theCUBE here, the last couple of days. The themes are starting to emerge. What are you seeing, what's your thoughts? >> Yeah, I mean, first of all, John, 8,000 people, this is, you know, geeks that are really excited, and I mean that in the best of ways, of course. There's actually, there were people here before the show started, doing lightning talks and full day sessions. Tomorrow, there's an operative session that another 250 or 300 people will be doing Friday, so, you know, and people want to just suck the marrow out of the bone that is everything going on here, just get every ounce of knowledge here, and they are deep into this session, so, this is a great community. The question I want to ask you guys is you were at Amazon re:Invent two weeks ago. We've watched that show. I want the compare and contrast of this ecosystem and show, not just compare it to like, say, open stack, which we've been teasing apart all week, and I think there are some things we need to worry about, but a lot of good differences. But compare against the big one in the room, which is Amazon, and a big difference is Amazon is here, and they have a seat at the table, because they have to, and customers will force them there, but you know, should this worry Amazon, and how does this ecosystem compare with the Amazon ecosystem. The big thing for me is, I understand how people make money in the ecosystem of Amazon. I'm still trying to figure that out here. >> Yeah, eh, it is a different ecosystem. It does have a bit of a vibe of it could be the new re:Invent. We've had conversations over the last couple of days about-- >> Or is this the independent cloud, >> Exactly. >> You know, open ecosystem. >> It is the independent show that we've been waiting for, that we've wanted since COMDEX and Interop kind of went away, and it's all been vendor shows, and now we have an independent show where all the vendors can come and have kind of a neutral meeting place, and we can all gather together and have some common ground, which is like, that's what Kubernetes is. I've been saying over the last couple of days, Kubernetes is like the ethernet of cloud, so it's something which is an agreed standard and we can all collaborate on, and then, you never bet against ethernet. So know you can build all these other things on top of that platform, yeah. >> Just a quick note on that, right, that's Interop, and networking was at the core of that. It was basically everybody, oh, it's the chance of if we give true interoperability, maybe we can do multi-vendor and it won't all be Cisco, who dominated that market. Amazon's the same. >> Stu, this is to me, ethernet's a great example. I say TCPIP as well. Both are enabling technologies that are standardized, or actually started as de facto standards. They weren't necessarily bona fide standards. They emerged when people rallied around them. Those de facto standards, emerge and become a catalyst point for people to build on top of and around. Remember, there's still a lower level below the stack on ethernet. So you had, you know, physical data link layer in the OSI model, the grandfather of all stacks. That really changed, I think, 20 years of growth and innovation. I think Kubernetes is, exactly right, Justin, it's exactly your point. I see that as well, that it's not so much Kubernetes is going to be the be all end all. It's what it enables, and I think the innovations on top of Kubernetes, and underneath Kubernetes, take the holy trinity, I've been saying this on theCUBE now for the past year, the holy trinity of infrastructure and IT is storage compute networking, and those things are now being repurposed in a way that is highly scalable, dynamic, and resourceful for a lot of things. AI is a great example, everyone talks about AI, but storage policy, the knobs in Kubernetes can manage, and Google saying the guys of Kubernetes. That's one of the most underutilized aspects of Kubernetes, is the networking guys managing the knobs from below, and then app guys with servers messing maybe on the top. This is just an absolute growth engine, and the comparison to Amazon is similar, because Andy Jassy talks about builders, the right tool for the job. This is essentially the same mantra. I mean, this is tools, platforms. >> It's very similar, but with one very important difference, and around the money side of things. You don't have this massive behemoth which is going to come in, and one year you're on the keynote, and the next year we just announced a product, which completely killed your business. It's open source. That's not really going to happen. So you've got that common core of things, where there's no real competitive advantage on this stuff. So that's, you know, Linux, where's the competitive advantage on a kernel? There isn't one. So open source makes great sense for that kind of core of things that you then build upon, and then all the money is in all the innovation, all the value add that goes on top of that, and that makes a huge amount of sense to have an open source show for that. >> And I think, Stu, one of the things that we always talk about, networking in cloud, I think the concept of cloud is going to be old hat. You heard it here first on theCUBE. Because cloud is Amazon, cloud is a set of resources. When we start thinking about IoT at the edge, when you talk about moving compute to the edge, you're going to start to see mesh networks, peer to peer, and add a new kind of platform configurations that isn't necessarily cloud. It's a new thing. It's a platform, open platform, and there's going to be some incentives that are going to be designed for startups, that's economically beneficial to the new kinds of things, versus the economic incentives that Amazon might not have, to do things. So I think we're going to see emergence of new stuff. I would still say that cloud is a state of mind, it's not a location. And we here, it's CloudNativeCon. It's not just KubeCon. It's about doing things in a cloud native way, and that, like you say, it doesn't matter where it is or how it communicates together, but it's the way you operate it, it's the way it actually works in practice. It's not so much of, oh, we're going to build it here and we're going to put it in that cloud, or that cloud, or that cloud. >> And I think we've had some real clarity as to what that future of multi cloud looks like, 'cause it's not one massive cloud everywhere, it's not, oh, my applications spanning all over the place. It's we're working to solve that really tough problem of distributed architectures, and giving us ways that I shouldn't have to think about where I am spinning that up, or if I need to change vendor, not necessarily portability, you still do have some lock in, because Kubernetes is not the full stack, it's a piece of the overall platform, and while there's 75 different versions here that are all compliant, I should be able to move between them, but the devil's in the details, and there's lots of stuff that goes on top. >> Let's talk about multi cloud for a second. 'Cause you mentioned COMDEX, you talked about ethernet. At that time, during those big revolutions, the word multi-vendor was a big buzz word. Multi-vendor was like the basis of COMDEX. We all got to play together. Multi-vendor meant choice. Today, multi cloud is just a modern version of multi-vendor. >> Exactly, it's multi-vendor, and that's what enterprises want. Enterprises are a bit wary now. We hear lots of conversation about lock in, and that comes up a lot, and it's a real thing. Enterprises are concerned, they don't want to bet on one company, and then find out that actually, it's technology, it changes, things need to be moved around. We don't want to wake up in five, six years, and then suddenly find, oh my god, I can't change anything because I'm locked into this one vendor. >> So, Justin, they say they want multi-vendor. When it came to networking, I spent years working on interoperability, and plug tests, and all these things, and at the end of the day, it was way better to get my standards plus with a single vendor than it was to try to loop them together, and then, oh, when I changed something, so hopefully the difference here is actually, we have loosely coupled services, we have APIs, so can we actually do multi-vendor, multi-cloud that doesn't stress out my team, and have, every time I want to make a change, or they make a change, it moves. The new cloud world should be, things change, you know, it changes upstream, and downstream, I get to use them. So, once again, we talk about the shiny nirvana of, oh, you know, it's serverless, and the old trinity of computer storage. I don't even need to worry about that, 'cause it'll just work, but wait, if something goes wrong, I've been talking to a bunch of vendors here, that actually, how do I get observability, and manageability, to be able to drill down, because things could still go wrong. >> Well, you heard Bloomberg, we had an end user come on, it's a very interesting point, and Dan Khan, from the executive director, well, Bloomberg's kind of a different case, but look at what Bloomberg does. The guy said to us, "I actually don't want to buy "these products and services. "I just want to pay them money "to be available to support me "when I need support." 'Cause Bloomberg has fully integrated all their support internally. I think that's a trend that we're going to see in the enterprise, where CIOs start building teams, real software chops. It might not be as big as Bloomberg, but the notion of, we're going to run our own stuff. We'll use management services where appropriate, but we're going to have a core software build strategy, and I can't wait. An SLA of four hour response time. I need like, minutes. >> And that's how, I think, where we don't have the answers yet. There are still a lot of questions that enterprises are trying to work out about how do I actually do that. So you mentioned Bloomberg, and I interviewed them a few months ago, wrote something in Forbes about them. They are a special case in that they have chosen that we're going to invest in this technology so that we have people on staff, in our company, who understand Kubernetes. Now, that's not a choice that every enterprise is going to make, but they decided that actually, this technology, this software is so important to our business, to where we get all the value for our business that we need to invest in that technology. And I think a lot of enterprises are realizing that, actually, outsourcing everything to one vendor, and then giving all of your innovation engine to someone else, and they're realizing that was a mistake. Now, they're trying to figure out, okay, what do we bring in house, what do we do ourselves, what do we get vendors to do, which technologies do we use for what particular value creation, and that complexity, that decision making process, that's what we haven't quite worked out yet, and that's where I think there's a lot of value in the ecosystem, with service providers who can provide advice on here is how you should do it, based on what you need to do. >> That's a great point. Stu, I want you to comment on that. Let's refine this for a second, 'cause the people who actually spend the money, or the people re-imagining IT infrastructure, IT applications. The CIO, I've interviewed the VP of Advanced Technology at Proctor and Gamble, and he told me, when he came in, he came from Coca Cola, he's been an old IT guy, he says, look, we outsourced everything to the point where we're anemic. We got a couple of storage guys, they're pushing buttons, they're jumping on, calling the vendors, they outsource everything. He says they had no ability to create a competitive advantage for the business, and what they moved quickly to was to bring talent in to be builders, to be in house. So now you have that trend happening in the modern CIO, CXO kind of roles. Now you have to say, okay, I got teams here. How do I get the investments deployed, how do I go to this ecosystem here with all these tools, all these capabilities, how do I invest, how do I build out. >> Look, I think Kelsey Hightower had a great point when we interviewed him this week. It is a huge opportunity for managed services, because like we talked about, the Amazon, or even the ecosystem, how do I keep up with all of this, and the answer is, you don't. You need to be able to have people, whether it's system integrators, or partners that are going to help that. You know, look, Amazon gets criticized for not being deeper in open source. Well, they use a lot of open source and they deliver those services, and they make it easy. Frictionless is something we talked about for many years as being the thing. The enterprise wants to be able to spend money and just go do it, because they don't have a team to pitch these. Even somebody like Bloomberg, or some of these really big companies I love, talking, you've got Apple, and Nordstrom, and some really interesting, oh, by the way, and they're all hiring. Whether or not they're actually using Kubernetes, they cannot confirm or deny, but you know, we know how that goes. >> Hold on, first, let's unpack the end user piece here, okay? Amazon is pushing 5,000 reference-able customers. Okay, it's not about the Amazon question. End users here, how many reference-able customers are here? What are they actually, Uber's here, they're hiring. They might have some Kubernetes stuff in the background. Sure, they probably do. But actually, what does the end user adoption really look like? I mean... >> It's still early, but again, a difference between this show and Amazon re:Invent. How many end customers have a booth at re:Invent? Compared to here, where we have people, end customers who are here mostly to try to hire talent. They have booths. >> Kudos to the CNCF. They've got 80 end users participating. There are a lot of users here. This is not the vendor fest that we see at some shows when they get big. I hear they're not seeking the vendors. The vendors that I talked to were happy because they are the users here, and they're excited. Before we go, John, there's a couple kinks in the armors and things we need to worry about. The two, if I look at service meshes, and I look at serverless as a huge threat. One of the things I wanted to look at coming in was I'd heard a lot of talk about Knative, and I think Knative is great, but it is not, you know, Lambda is the defacto standard, just like S3 was before. Lambda is this, and Knative has absolutely nothing to do with Lambda and does not connect with it. It is the difference between serverless and functions, and so, all the AWS functions and all the Azure functions have nothing to do with Knative. For the people that looked at OpenWhisk and all these other options, Knative seems a good way to pull, they've done a re-spin of what's happening there, and it's moving things down the line. Once again, as Kelsey said, if we look at serverless as a spectrum, which many of the hardcore serverless people will debate and argue, and be like, that's not real, serverless, well, just like we said, there is only one real cloud, and it was Amazon. We know that's not the case. It will be a spectrum, we want to meet customers where they are. So, Knative, good news, but the elephant in the room is that AWS and Azure are where all of the serverless really happens, and therefore, there is a big air gap between them. Justin, service mesh is something I know you've been looking at. Give it to us the good, bad, and the ugly. >> Service mesh is really, really early. So, we're at that part where there's a diversity of innovation going on. There's about 12, or at least 12 different companies here at the show, who are all doing something with service mesh. They're all trying to sell you a different solution. This is what happens with technology. A new technology gets created, and we have this flurry of all these startups, who are all trying different things. And this is the destructive force of capitalism. Not all of them are going to succeed, but we have to have them all out there in the market, because at the moment, it's too early to figure out, okay, well, it's definitely going to be that one. If we knew that one, then I'd be putting all of my money behind that one company today. >> Last year, Justin, all the talk was about SDO. I've heard a lot of talk about SDO, but it hasn't all been good. >> No, that's the thing. So we've had a year now, and last year was definitely, hey, SDO is like, the service mesh. Like, not so much. Envoy seems to be the common ground that people are actively using. That's what most people are building on top of. So it looks like Envoy's going to be that underlayer of everything else. But in terms of how you actually use service mesh, it's still very early, and people are trying to figure out how to do I use this quite complex technology in practice? And as people use it more, as we get more adoption, then we'll start to see that one or two of the methods and the approaches will win out over all of the others, and that's where we can expect to see, well, I have an anointed winner. That will then win out, because it's useful, because it's functional, because end users want to do it that way. >> And Envoy, by the way, had traction. They had a sold out EnvoyCon. On the first day, 350 people, Lyft is driving that, and they're just heads down, solving problems. I think that seems to be the formula for some of the successful products, where you take away all the window dressing and the hype. It comes down to who's solving what problems. >> And that's the thing with open source. You can't just throw a whole bunch of marketing dollars at it to make it succeed. If end users don't like the code, and they don't use it, then it won't work. >> John, I want you to give us the word on the open source business model. We watched in the last year, Red Hat bought CoreOS for 250 million, then they were acquired by IBM for 34 billion, pending final, and all that stuff and everything, and then, reading through the VMware, SCC filing $550 million for Heptio. You know, big, big dollars, so, is open source just getting a lot of customers, and they get acquired by the big guys? What's the take? >> I think it's interesting. First of all, Red Hat might not like what I'm about to say, but I'll just say it. I think there was a steal with CoreOS. If you look at what Heptio got for valuation, CoreOS was an absolute steal. The team was phenomenal, they were doing some amazing work. At that time of the acquisition, the debate of how to make money dominated versus just getting behind the technology, and I think CoreOS was a fantastic team, and they had the right tracking. You can see what's happening now with now part of the Red Hat. So, Red Hat got a massive lift on that, so I think, kudos to Red Hat for taking that up the table at that time. Great acquisition, I think that helped them propel, and now show that to IBM that there's real value there. Now, I think open source as a business model is interesting because it's changing, right? You now have a new generation of builders and developers coming in. Open source has to evolve, and I think the CNCF I think is a cutting edge experiment or Petri dish of how to stay true to open source principles, and still nurture and enable a downstream impact for the commercialization. I think it's an opportunity, but it's also one of their biggest challenges, because if this is COMDEX, COMDEX is an open source. It's hawking wares, right? So it's a different business model. So, this is going to be a very interesting test in the industry to see how the current open source momentum, which is looking really strong right now, how that can interplay with commercialization, because certainly, the money's there, the value's there, and if we can get these value spots identified, the white spaces for startups, and let the big guys also play as well, it's going to be a very interesting landscape, it's certainly dynamic. I don't have the answers, but my gut's telling me that a whole new level of sets of services and platforms are going to be composed around these services, and I think it's all going to be driven by open source, that's clear. How it shapes out, valuations and the talent buys, the momentum, market buy, we'll be watching, I don't know. >> Yeah, it's exciting times. We're here at the beginnings of what I hope is going to be this massive new ecosystem, and we get to watch it grow, we get to watch it change. It's a great place to be. >> All I can say, Stu, is I wish I was 25 years old again, right now, because for young entrepreneurs, and young tech folks, this is probably one of the most exciting times, because you have real computer science, and dormant computer science, now re-energized with cloud computing scale. It's just like-- >> John, they don't appreciate what they had, you know. They don't know what it was like to have a computer that wasn't actually connected to things, let alone what we had. >> I used to build my own graphics libraries, I used to walk to school in bare feet in the snow. It's so hard. It's so easy now. >> Creating ones and zeroes-- >> Where's my token ring? >> Creating ones and zeroes by banging rocks together. >> It's so easy now. You guys got it made. You have no idea. Great stuff, Stu, this is great analysis, and I think, again, KubeCon is the beginning, with Cloud Native, this is just a small signal, I think. I think there's going to be a COMDEX moment soon, unless this thing just blows up, which I don't think is going to happen. >> I mean, look, last thing, John, I want to big thank to the Linux Foundation, CNCF, for working with us. We've been neighbors in the early days, great partnership, this community. They've got a great media section. All of friends over here, that are creating a lot of con, working really hard. The amount of work that goes through, and as we had the people from CNCF talking. They've got a core team, but it's people that volunteer, and we were a community too, and all our sponsors, John. >> Yeah, thanks to the community, and again, one more final point is that, this market, Justin, as you know, we all cover it, is in a learning mode. There's a lot of education oriented stuff that people are interested in. You've got Alex Williams over at New Stack, DevOps.com, TFiR over there, everyone's up in media out there. There is a thirst for content, there's a thirst for community learning. The sessions are packed. I mean, the hallways are interesting. You see people huddling, and I overhear the conversations. They're not talking about what party to go to, they're talking about how to implement a Kubernetes cluster, so this, really people working on and off the court here, so to speak. So, it's been great coverage. So, day three, breaking it down. I'm John Furrier, Justin Warren, Stu Miniman, back with more coverage, day three, after the short break. (techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering VMworld 2018 brought to you by VMware and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to the live CUBE coverage. This is day three of VMworld 2018. We're live in Las Vegas this is theCUBE's special coverage. Our ninth year covering VMworld. Kicking off day three, we've got two sets. Our next guest, Brian Reagan, who's the CMO of Actifio, theCUBE alumni. Great to see you. Great company doing some great things on the marketing side. You guys taking a different approach than others. Let the product do the talking. Let the solution speak for itself. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, John. It's great to be back and, Dave, it's always a pleasure. It's great to be at VMworld. >> You guys, I don't want to say, a different approach, but you're here at VMworld. There's a lot of pomp and circumstance. There's a lot of big booths, a lot of glam, a lot of attention getting. You got to do that but you don't want to overspend on that. You really want to just be in the community. What's your strategy? How are you as a CMO going into a world that wants more content? They want more data. They want to get solutions built. They love the glam, but the meat and potatoes is what they want. >> Monday night we had an event at TopGolf and I was talking to a couple customers and they basically were all saying the same thing to me which was, I come to VMworld to basically collect squeezy balls for my kids. They're going back to school. I'm going to collect a lot of toys. I'm going to do the solution expo. Great, great opportunity to really breakthrough from a swag standpoint, but no one's coming here to necessarily research the company that they want to disrupt or transform their business around. What we believe for VMware and, quite frankly, just in general is this is a great place to engage with customers. They're all here. This is the IT, this is COMDEX 2018. We need to be here, but we don't necessarily need to be in a solutions exchange where it's just an arms race about swag. >> What's your relationship with VMware? How do you guys fit in the ecosystem? What's the value proposition? What is the Actifio relationship to the community? How do you guys walk that line and how do you deliver those solutions? >> Pretty much throw a rock and you'll hit a vendor out here who has a great VMware solution, right? We are no exception. Everyone does VMware. Quite frankly, it's actually really easy nowadays. There's zero differentiation. I hate to say it, but everyone does VMware the same way. There is really no disruption in this marketplace because everyone does VADP. Everyone does Snapshot. Quite frankly, what we major on and what we focus on is actually the workloads that are franchise critical to businesses, which really are databases. Yeah, they might run out of VM, but often times they run on physical machines. Let's focus on databases. If they happen to be VMware, great. You know what, we like everybody else has a great VMware solution, but it's easy. Let's focus on the hard stuff which is databases which run the business and dX is all around databases and applications that run the business. That's where we major on. That's where our value comes in. That's where our customers see the most value from Actifio. >> My take away is, five/ten years ago it was all about integration and that was a differentiation, who could get the SDK faster, >> Exactly right, yeah. >> And you say, we were, we own them and that app would be right there. Okay, fine. That's done, okay. Fast forward to 2018, what's your perspective on VMware, what they're doing, the market momentum. You mentioned databases. You see them with Amazon bringing database now on prem. A lot has changed. What's your perspective? >> I think VMware is really... You talk to any CIO, any IT leadership, VMware is a critical part of the conversation so I don't mean to, in any way, diminish the value that VMware brings to the enterprise. And actually they are enabling cloud in every enterprise today whether it's private, whether it's hybrid, whether it's I'm going to do public, but I'm going to do public in VMware in the Amazon Cloud. VMware is table stakes in terms of running mission critical applications. What we believe is the next level of integration is what's the app running in VMware, right? What is it Oracle? I'm running Oracle rack inside of VMware. I'm running SAP inside of VMware. That's the next level of integration that becomes the differentiation and, quite frankly, the value creation in a lot of these enterprises. >> How do you guys differentiate, John was talking about all the glam and all the noise, a lot of noise, tons of noise around data protection. You guys pioneered the whole copy data management space. Where are you seeing growth? Where's the momentum, maybe you can give some examples. >> 2/3 of our business is now actually leading with DevOps and cloud. The real lever there is time. People want more time back in their day and they want more time back because whether it's-- there was a great article that SearchITOperations published about Aetna where they have tens of multi-terabyte databases and, quite frankly, it breaks every piece of infrastructure that they had, but they want to be able to serve those multi-terabyte databases out to their developers within minutes, as opposed to weeks or months or however long it takes traditional operations. Let's serve that need. Let's solve the time problem and all of a sudden digital transformation becomes a reality. dX and continuous integration, continuous development is really easy when you're talking about megabyte-sized JSON files. When you talk about 100 terabyte databases, it becomes really hard. With Actifio, we solve that problem. Now, we're enabling dX at scale in these large enterprises. It's really a time problem. >> Aetna's a customer obviously. We heard a similar story from Live Nation, which is another customer, but go ahead, John, sorry. >> What's the drivers in this because this is a unique thing? Because databases, as we said on theCUBE here on our analysis, the battleground in cloud, on premise in cloud database is the crucial thing. Look at Amazon, they're going after Oracle. RDS, their relational database service, on VMware on premise. Amazon's never done that before so clearly the database is a hard nut to crack, one. Two, it's super important. It's the pacing item on all migrations, all activity. What's driving your business because you're targeting that, trying to improve ease of use, but what's the market force? Migration, developer scale? What are some of the things that are driving your business? >> Yes and yes, right? It's help me collapse my cycle time. Typically, the time to actually get a copy of data for a developer is measured in weeks or months. >> In the old way. >> In the old way. CICD is talking about a daily check-in. And daily check-in, weeks and months, it just doesn't jive. If I can actually collapse that down into, yes, no matter how big that database is, I can give it to you in a 15 minute, 30 minute SLA. >> The mismatch between data pipelining to developer need is a gap, huge problem that you solve. What about some of the consequences if that's not solved? >> What do people do to compromise the time problem? They subset. They give their developers, it's a 100 terabyte production database, they give them a terabyte or 1/2 a terabyte of actual subsetted data so they run their queries in development and they work great. Then they roll them into production, all of a sudden they break because 100 terabytes is a different animal. >> And that could be a terrible experience for the application where data has to drive all the value. So speed of data insertion into the application is the critical cloud negative and/or developer need. >> It drives quality. It drives customer satisfaction. It drives, quite frankly, in regulated industries, it drives compliance. >> I feel like the Geico commercial. Everybody knows that this is a problem. Why aren't people doing this? Is it just too hard? I mean, this is a card. What specifically do you guys have for IP? What makes it happen? What do you guys do? >> 57 patents later, we have cracked the code on how to do really application native virtualization of data and the ability to serve it up through workflows, through automation in some of the largest enterprises in the world. We are enterprise tested, battle tested. Quite frankly, the applications and data that serves the largest enterprises, that's where we shine. >> What are some of the value points you can point to anecdotally or publicly around the value your customers have gotten from having thae ability to have data addressable and almost in real-time for developers because there's got to be some new experiences or new capabilities that they're realizing. Can you share just some of things that come out of this? >> An IT leader in a major bank that you've heard of said to us after we went through the initial phase of deployment, you've just given me an extra quarter of development in every year. >> Extra quarter of time. >> Extra quarter of time. We've collapsed down and we now have five quarters of development cycles as opposed to four. That, quite frankly, if you put a dollar value on it is measured in the hundreds of millions of dollars. >> Developer productivity, any new cool things that have happened, top line revenue growth, any impact to applications? >> Absolutely, yeah. I mean, you think about what is the battle front now, whether it's online banking, whether it's retail, whether it's healthcare even. What is the battle front? It is your app, your phone, your mobile device. It is the ability to self-serve content, information and transactions. All of that is happening because people are transforming the way they're doing business around applications today. >> Customers are going to eat this up. You solve the holy grail problem. It's so obvious to us, but getting data in real-time, having speed and scale and relevance is super critical. How do you guys compare with the competition? Are you guys ahead? How do you guys compare versus other solutions? Are there anything like you guys? What's out in the marketplace? Share your perspective on the landscape on how you guys compare. >> You're asking a marketing guy how we compare to the competition. >> Of course you're going to say you blow them away? >> Of course, I have this very convenient chart that shows us being the leader compared to everybody. The reality is 3,000 customers, 37 countries, nine years in the marketplace. We have been there and done that at scale in the enterprise. Five of the top global 20 financial institutions. Four of the 10 energy companies in the world. Four of the 10 top retail organizations in the world. We have done it for the largest companies in the world and we continue to deliver value at scale in the enterprise. >> You said before hundreds of millions of value. That sounds like a lot and people might go, oh, but how do you do that? Your cloud and your devops which is all about agility and speed, if you take a net present value, a discounted cash flow, a break even or whatever curve you draw, and I think I heard three months, right? You compress that by a quarter and then look at the numbers, that's the value. >> Huge. >> So if it's $200 million in revenue, do the math. If it's $10 in revenue, okay, it's not going to be as much, but the companies that you're talking about, the industries, talking about big, big projects and a lot of revenue associated with them. You talked about cloud and devops, how is your business model cloud and devops? Can you talk about that in terms of the way we do business, customer to Actifio? >> Increasingly, cloud has been for us a place where all of these use cases are executed. As a result, the business model has been BYO. I'm going to buy a license from Actifio. I'm going to bring it to Amazon, Azure, Google, what have you. More and more we're seeing a mixture of marketplace transactions plus the traditional cloud marketplace. You mentioned Live Nation. They are in many ways way ahead of the curve in terms of just going wholesale. I'm out of the data center business. I'm all in on cloud and I'm just going to buy everything through the marketplace. Increasingly, we're seeing marketplace transactions becoming a relevant part of our business. The fact that we've integrated with the top six public cloud providers and increasingly we're going to expand out to Huawei and Alicloud and more, it's not just a destination to connect a use case. It is becoming a platform to conduct transactions as well. >> And a really important channel. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Brian, great to hear from you. Congratulations on your success. Love the business model. We've been saying on theCUBE, so many years, data's at the center and the time to get the data from any database or a database into the application speed is critical. That makes great value so thanks for doing that. Appreciate it. >> Thank you guys. Always a pleasure to be here. >> Check out Actifio. Of course, we're bringing the data to you in real-time here on theCUBE at VMworld. We're live in Las Vegas. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Stay with us for more after this short break. (electronic music)

this is the cute live from the Moscone Center in San Francisco this is silicon angles continuous coverage a vm world 2010 now inside the queue we're back I'm excited too I'm John furry with SiliconANGLE calm I'm really excited to have John Troyer here who is the senior community social media manager also executive producer who put the whole bloggers lounge social media lounge together John thanks so much for doing this and we'll get into a conversation but I just want to say it's been a pleasure working with you you know VMware at the show set new agenda and I think this blogger lounge we have some areas improve I think but from my standpoint really people were excited by it in setting the agenda so congratulations thanks it was really a pleasure working with you guys as well I think you've done a great job all this week this is really innovative what we've done here we always bring community to it we always bring multis multimedia and social media distribution to it but what an often conference the old school right the old style would be let's spend a couple million bucks let's bring in some TV crews and and do it that way we've done it kind of mean a much more agile for happen anywhere hackers you know it's awesome man it's great we were very pleased with the amount of content we produced the show coverage we're right here in the middle of the bloggers lounge so we got some interaction there we're going to have some bloggers on later and be experts on later today so I think it's really been a successful project today is dedicated to the to get the community out there but I mean I had an observation I didn't think it's gonna be this big that the broadcast sided with all the executives people were energized I had a personal element to it it wasn't the big heavy lights it wasn't the CNN trucks but we know we got the content out with good sound and HD you were going to fix the little audio thing but but you know from a Content standpoint it's going to look good and sound good and okay it's not the standard big equipment I don't I mean I don't care great to be here I don't thinks everybody's watching us now doesn't care only eight yeah only produce an H pump at HD onto the internet but the thing is BM world is really exciting I this is my fifth vmworld so I have not been to all of them this I think is the biggest what's certainly the biggest I think it's the most exciting the most there's a palpable buzz going on both in the industry and here on the show floor vendor after vendor attendee after attendee even the show staff has this kind of silly grin on their face because there's so much going on it all went so well everyone's so excited the connections that are being made and that's what I mean I'm a social media guy right and this is that this is an extension of that into the real world social media we're connecting online but that that activates when people actually get together in person and I've seen it happen over and over again what we've tried to do here on the cube is it is then convey a little bit of that excitement back out you know Alan to the internet for folks who couldn't come so I think anyway I've it's been great time here and I hope everybody else has enjoyed our coverage both Twitter or Facebook you know video etc it's been it's been great I mean it's just just we got sound bites we got content a mountain of content so that's phenomena it's all going out to the social grass and activity streams but you've been on the floor minutes exciting I what are your report I mean what's your report I mean you seeing a lot of tweets you seeing the connections are being made I'll see that the party was great great feedback from last night the vendors had their partners had their party what's to give us inside the ropes of the social media activity that went on because we didn't get much I see it much of it with the final year you know I work with the guys that work in the data center right and they're they're the hands-on practitioners that are out there and they need they have often been working with VMware for years and it's interesting you know some years you could come to VMware and I get the feedback well I knew everything so I talked to people but I didn't really go to the sessions and it was ok and it was good it was good to reconnect this year I'm hearing my god there's so much new going on I talked to some extra vendors that I'm interested in you know vCloud director is really interesting vshield is really interesting you know all that from the news from VMware was fascinating the labs were great and so what I'm hearing is a what I've seen from the guys I'm working with and talk to is a real sense of excitement I have to bring this back to my I have to bring this back to my company you have to bring this back to my data center and even though we are we I used to think of myself as a virtualization expert you know we've gotta broaden that conversation out to our whole the data center the operations of our IT department you know how our CIO runs things is going to also be brought along in this kind of technological shift social media has got a lot of social science to it it's all about you know connections and handshakes and all and going stuff online and is very social I mean do you think like the momentum i agree with device so i saw the same thing usually it's lobby con hey sessions i blew that off middle the party but i saw i saw the same thing you did but do you think that that's contagious i mean that momentum that excitement you think that was an element of it absolutely and I mean it was interesting I mean it in vm world's past I was the one doing a lot of the blogging I was open to it a lot of the tweeting you know you talk to people all day you you upload videos all night it's a very active it's a lot of work yeah you know if we have a blogger lounge here today in the lobby it was very visible it was very nice but I think if you really had to map out the bloggers social media activity lounge this year you'd have to draw a circle all around Moscone I mean everybody's belonging everybody's tweeting the tweet stream on the keynote was insane I had about 50 I had tables for about 50 bloggers and tweeters but the entire audience of 17,000 was tweeting blanket average we we trended in San Francisco number two on Twitter you know that day and with VMware and we were number five a little later on the day is insane it's exciting so everyone here is really engaged I seriously flow going on it really changes we were talking a couple of weeks ago it's like the old days CES or or or or not see yes Comdex you know you you get ready for the show you'd go to the show you come home for the show this year this build up the social media connectivity that happens before during and after it it's it turns the event into something completely different I think this is an event within the event i mean the social media flow was phenomenal I mean I still guys doing podcasts in the lobby video streaming the event as this phenomena it's exciting it's a whole new world out there we got a couple of podcasts coming up here next yeah we got some podcast any final comments about you know what you're what you take away is from a social media standpoint any goals for next year any things that you on your mind well you know I mean vmworld is a tribal event it's the gathering of a site of innovators who are really taking things to the next level so I think as we as we'll see what happens in them in the social media world in a year a lot can change all of our cameras will be smaller you know we'll probably do it more remotes it'll be it'll be interesting it bought by yahoo yeah I mean we have a lot of fourscore activities so I think you know we'll try to do more community stuff we might probably have multiple video streams I mean it our capabilities increase but it'll all be about people right at the end in the end social media is people right it's all about connecting people and will continue to do that I mean I'm excited about the fact that you know the industry is evolving and growing up together and this business that's being done I mean it's it's an uptick in the economy you know vmware is actually be a big part of that enablement and so you know when people are doing business it's just a different vibe in the social excitement that comes from meetings countless meetings where it's like yeah deals are going on like partnerships are being made I mean that's the 1 2 15 that Todd was talking about that yeah there's a there's definitely something in the air the industry the the technology and then something's going right at VMware too so I feel it internally congratulations John Shorey executive producer the blogger lounge social media the cube thanks for for supporting us and being a part of it and helping us a collaborate on the content thanks so much thanks for working with us had a great time