>>Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Cube Live, AWS Reinvent 2022. This is our first day of three and a half days of wall to wall coverage on the cube. Lisa Martin here with Dave Valante. Dave, it's getting louder and louder behind us. People are back. They're excited. >>You know what somebody told me today? Hm? They said that less than 15% of the audience is developers. I'm like, no way. I don't believe it. But now maybe there's a redefinition of developers because it's all about the data and it's all about the developers in my mind. And that'll never change. >>It is. And one of the things we're gonna be talking about is app modernization. As customers really navigate the journey to do that so that they can be competitive and, and meet the demands of customers. We've got an alumni back with us to talk about that. AJ Patel joins us, the SVP and GM Modern Apps and Management business group at VMware. Aj, welcome back. Thank >>You. It's always great to be here, so thank you David. Good to see >>You. Isn't great. It's great to be back in person. So the VMware Tansu team here back at Reinvent on the Flow Shore Flow show floor. There we go. Talk about some of the things that you guys are doing together, innovating with aws. >>Yeah, so it's, it's great to be back after in person after multiple years and the energy level continues to amaze me. The partnership with AWS started on the infrastructure side with VMware cloud on aws. And when with tanza, we're extending it to the application space. And the work here is really about how do you make developers productive To your earlier point, it's all about developers. It's all about getting applications in production securely, safely, continuously. And tanza is all about making that bridge between great applications being built, getting them deployed and running, running and operating at scale. And EKS is a dominant Kubernetes platform. And so the better together story of tanu and EKS is a great one for us, and we're excited to announce some sort of innovations in that area. >>Well, Tanu was so front and center at VMware Explorer. I wasn't at in, in VMware Explorer, Europe. Right. But I'm sure it was a similar kind of focus. When are customers choosing Tanu? Why are they choosing Tanu? What's, what's, what's the update since last August when >>We, you know, the market settled into three main use cases. One is all about developer productivity. You know, consistently we're all dealing with skill set gap issues. How do we make every developer productive, modern developer? And so 10 is all about enabling that develop productivity. And we can talk quite a bit about it. Second one is security's front and center and security's being shifted left right into how you build great software. How do you secure that through the entire supply chain process? And how do you run and operationalize secure at runtime? So we're hearing consistently about making secure software supply chain heart of what our solution is. And third one is, how do I run and operate the modern application at scale across any Kubernetes, across any cloud? These are the three teams that are continuing to get resonance and empowering. All of this is exciting. David is this formation of platform teams. I just finished a study with Bain Consulting doing some research for me. 40% of our organization now have some form of a central team that's responsive for, for we call platform engineering and building platforms to make developers productive. That is a big change since about two years ago even. So this is becoming mainstream and customers are really focusing on delivering in value to making developers productive. >>Now. And, and, and the other nuance that I see, and you kinda see it here in the ecosystem, but when you talk about your customers with platform engineering, they're actually building their, they're pointing their business. They gonna page outta aws, pointing their businesses to their customers, right? Becoming software companies, becoming cloud companies and really generating new forms of revenue. >>You know, the interesting thing is, some of my customers I would never have thought as leading edge are retailers. Yeah. And not your typical Starbucks that you get a great example. I have an auto parts company that's completely modernizing how they deliver point of sale all the way to the supply chain. All built on ES at scale. You're typically think of that a financial services or a telco leading the pack. But I'm seeing innovation in India. I'm seeing the innovation in AMEA coming out of there, across the board. Every industry is becoming a product company. A digital twin as we would call it. Yeah. And means they become software houses. Yeah. They behave more like you and I in this event versus a, a traditional enterprise. >>And they're building their own ecosystems and that ecosystem's generating data that's generating more value. And it's just this cycle. It's, >>It's a amazing, it's a flywheel. So innovation continues to grow. Talk about really unlocking the developer experience and delivering to them what they need to modernize apps to move as fast and quickly as they want to. >>So, you know, I think AWS coin this word undifferentiated heavy lifting. If you think of a typical developer today, how much effort does he have to put in before he can get a single line of code out in production? If you can take away all the complexity, typically security compliance is a big headache for them, right? Developer doesn't wanna worry about that. Infrastructure provisioning, getting all the configurations right, is a headache for them. Being able to understand what size of infrastructure or resource to use cost effectively. How do you run it operationally? Cuz the application team is responsible for the operational cost of the product or service. So these are the un you know, heavy lifting that developers want to get away from. So they wanna write great code, build great experiences. And we've always talked about frameworks a way to abstract with the complexity. And so for us, there's a massive opportunity to say, how do I simplify and take away all the heavy lifting to get an idea into production seamlessly, continuously, securely. >>Is that part of your partnership? Because you think about a aws, they're really not about frameworks, they're about primitives. I mean, Warner Vos even talks about that in his, in his speech, you know, but, but that makes it more challenging for developers. >>No, actually, if you look at some of their initial investments around proton and et cetera work, they're starting to do, they're recognized, you know, PS is a bad, bad word, but the outcomes a platform as a service offers is what everybody wants. Just talking to the AWS leaders, responsible area, he actually has a separate build team. He didn't know what to call the third team. He has a Kubernetes team, he has a serverless team and has a build team. And that build team is everything above Kubernetes to make the developer productive. Right. And the ecosystem to bring together to make that happen. So I think AWS is recognizing that primitives are great for the elite developers, but if they want to get the mass scale and adoption in the business, it, if you will, they're gonna have to provide richer set of building blocks and reduce the complex and partnership like ours. Make that a reality. And what I'm excited about is there's a clear gap here, and t's the best platform to kind of fill that gap. Well, >>And I, I think that, you know, they're gonna double down triple, I just wrote about this double down, triple down on the primitives. Yes. They have to have the best, you know, servers and storage and database. And I think the way they, they, I call it taping the seams is with the ecosystem. Correct. You know, and they, nobody has a, a better ecosystem. I mean, you guys are, you know, the, the postage child for the ecosystem and now this even exceeds that. But partnering up, that's how they >>Continue to, and they're looking for someone who's open, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so one of the first question is, you know, are you proprie or open? Because one of the things they're fighting against is the lock in. So they can find a friendly partner who is open source, led, you know, upstream committing to the code, delivering that innovation, and bring the ecosystem into orchestrated choreography. It's like singing a music, right? They're running a, running an application delivery team is like running a, a musical orchestra. There's so many moving parts here, right? How do you make them sing together? And so if Tan Zoo and our platform can help them sing and drive more of their services, it's only more valuable for them. And >>I think the partners would generally say, you know, AWS always talking about customer obsession. It's like becomes this bromine, you go, yeah, yeah. But I actually think in the field, the the sellers would say, yeah, we're gonna do what the customer, if that means we're gonna partner up. Yeah. And I think AWS's comp structure makes it sort >>Of, I learned today how, how incentives with marketplaces work. Yeah. And it is powerful. It's very powerful. Yeah. Right. So you line up the sales incentive, you line up the customer and the benefits, you line up bringing the ecosystem to drive business results and everybody, and so everybody wins. And which is what you're seeing here, the excitement and the crowd is really the whole, all boats are rising. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. And it's driven by the fact that customers are getting true value out of it. >>Oh, absolutely. Tremendous value. Speaking of customers, give us an example of a customer story that you think really articulates the value of what Tanzi was delivering, especially making that developer experience far simpler. What are some of those big business outcomes that that delivers? >>You know, at Explorer we had the CIO of cvs and with their acquisition of Aetna and CVS Health, they're transforming the, the health industry. And they talked about the whole covid and then how they had to deliver the number of, you know, vaccines to u i and how quickly they had to deliver on that. It talked about Tanu and how they leverage, leverage a Tanza platform to get those new applications out and start to build that. And Ro was basically talking about his number one prior is how does he get his developers more productive? Number to priority? How does he make sure the apps are secure? Number three, priority, how does he do it cost effectively in the world? Particularly where we're heading towards where, you know, the budgets are gonna get tighter. So how do I move more dollars to innovation while I continue to drive more efficiency in my platform? And so cloud is the future. How does he make the best use of the cloud both for his developers and his operations team? Right? >>What's happening in serverless, I, in 2017, Andy Chassy was in the cube. He said if AWS or if Amazon had to build all over again, they would build in, in was using serverless. And that was a big quote. We've mined that for years. And as you were talking about developer productivity, I started writing down all the things developers have to do. Yep. With it, they gotta, they gotta build a container image. They said they gotta deploy an EC two instance. They gotta allocate memory, they gotta fence off the apps in a virtual machine. They gotta run the, you know, compute against the app goes, they gotta pay for all that. So, okay, what's your story on, what's the market asking for in terms of serverless? Because there's still some people who want control over the run time. Help us sift through that. >>And it really comes back to the application pattern or the type you're running. If it's a stateless application that you need to spin up and spin down. Serverless is awesome. Why would I wanna worry about scaling it up in, I wanna set up some SLAs, SLIs service level objectives or, or, or indicators and then let the systems bring the resources I need as I need them. That's a perfect example for serverless, right? On the other hand, if you have a, a more of a workflow type application, there's a sequence, there's state, try building an application using serverless where you had to maintain state between two, two steps in the process. Not so much fun, right? So I don't think serverless is the answer for everything, but many use cases, the scale to zero is a tremendous benefit. Events happen. You wanna process something, work is done, you quietly go away. I don't wanna shut down the server started up, I want that to happen magically. So I think there's a role of serverless. So I believe Kubernetes and servers are the new runtime platform. It's not one or the other. It's about marrying that around the application patterns. I DevOps shouldn't care about it. That's an infrastructure concern. Let me just run application, let the infrastructure manage the operations of it, whether it's serverless, whether it's Kubernetes clusters, whether it's orchestration, that's details right. I I I shouldn't worry about it. Right. >>So we shouldn't think of those as separate architectures. We should think of it as an architecture, >>The continuum in some ways Yeah. Of different application workload types. And, and that's a toolkit that the operator has at his disposal to configure and saying, where does, should that application run? Should I want control? You can run it on a, a conveyance cluster. Can I just run it on a serverless infrastructure and and leave it to the cloud provider? Do it all for me. Sure. What, what was PAs? PAs was exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. Write the code once you do the rest. Yeah. Okay. Those are just elements of that. >>And then K native is kinda in the middle, >>Right? K native is just a technology that's starting to build that capability out in a standards way to make serverless available consistently across all clouds. So I'm not building to a, a lambda or a particular, you know, technology type. I'm building it in a standard way, in a standard programming model. And infrastructure just >>Works for me on any cloud. >>The whole idea portability. Consistency. >>Right. Powerful. Yep. >>What are some of the things that, that folks can expect to learn from VMware Tan to AWS this week at the >>Show? Yeah, so there's some really great announcements. First of all, we're excited to extend our, our partnership with AWS in the area of eks. What I mean by that is we traditionally, we would manage an EKS cluster, you visibility of what's running in there, but we weren't able to manage the lifecycle With this announcement. We can give you a full management of lifecycle of S workloads. Our customers have 400 plus EKS clusters, multiple teams sharing those in a multi-tenanted way with common policy. And they wanna manage a full life cycle, including all the upstream open source component that make up Kubernetes people. That ES is the one thing, it's a collection of a lot of open, open source packages. We're making it simple to manage it consistently from a single place on the security front. We're now making tons of service mesh available in the marketplace. >>And if you look at what service MeSHs, it's an overlay. It's an abstraction. I can create an idea of a global name space that cuts across multiple VPCs. I'm, I'm hearing at Amazon's gonna make some announcements around VPC and how they stitch VPCs together. It's all moving towards this idea of abstractions. I can set policy at logical level. I don't have to worry about data security and the communication between services. These are the things we're now enabling, which are really an, and to make EKS even more productive, making enterprise grade enterprise ready. And so a lot of excitement from the EKS development teams as well to partner closely with us to make this an end to end solution for our >>Customers. Yeah. So I mean it's under chasy, it was really driving those primitives and helping developers under continuing that path, but also recognizing the need for solutions. And that's where the ecosystem comes in, >>Right? And the question is, what is that box? As you said last time, right? For the super cloud, there is a cloud infrastructure, which is becoming the new palette, but how do you make sense of the 300 plus primitives? How do you bring them together? What are the best practices, patterns? How do I manage that when something goes wrong? These are real problems that we're looking to solve. >>And if you're gonna have deeper business integration with the cloud and technology in general, you have to have that >>Abstraction. You know, one of the simple question I ask is, how do you know you're getting value from your cloud investment? That's a very hard question. What's your trade off between performance and cost? Do you know where your security, when a lock 4G happens, do you know all the open source packages you need to patch? These are very simple questions, but imagine today having to do that when everybody's doing in a bespoke manner using the set of primitives. You need a platform. The industry is shown at scale. You have to start standardizing and building a consistent way of delivering and abstracting stuff. And that's where the next stage of the cloud journey >>And, and with the economic environment, I think people are also saying, okay, how do we get more? Exactly. We're in the cloud now. How do we get more? How do we >>Value out of the cloud? >>Exactly. Totally. >>How do we transform the business? Last question, AJ for you, is, if you had a bumper sticker and you're gonna put it on your fancy car, what would it say about VMware tan zone aws? >>I would say tan accelerates apps. >>Love >>It. Thank you so much. >>Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. >>Appreciate it. Always great to be here. >>Pleasure. Likewise. For our guest, I'm Dave Ante. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube, the leader in emerging and enterprise tech coverage.

(soft music) >> Welcome back, everyone. theCube's live coverage. Day two here at VMware Explore. Our 12th year covering VMware's annual conference formally called Vmworld, now it's VMware Explore. Exploring new frontiers multi-cloud and also bearing some of the fruit from all the investments in cloud native Tanzu and others. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. We have the man who's in charge of a lot of that business and a lot of stuff coming out of the oven and hitting the market. Ajay Patel, senior vice president and general manager of the modern applications and management group at VMware, basically the modern apps. >> Absolutely. >> That's Tanzu. All the good stuff. >> And Aria now. >> And Aria, the management platform, which got social graph and all kinds of graph databases. Welcome back. >> Oh, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. >> Great to see you in person, been since 2019 when you were on. So, a lot's happened since 2019 in your area. Again, things get, the way VMware does it as we all know, they announce something and then you build it and then you ship it and then you announce it. >> I don't think that's true, but okay. (laughs) >> You guys had announced a lot of cool stuff. You bought Heptio, we saw that Kubernetes investment and all the cloud native goodness around it. Bearing fruit now, what's the status? Give us the update on the modern applications of the management, obviously the areas, the big announcement here on the management side, but in general holistically, what's the update? >> I think the first update is just the speed and momentum that containers and Kubernetes are getting in the marketplace. So if you take the market context, over 70% of organizations now have Kubernetes in production, not one or two clusters, but hundreds of clusters, sometimes tens of clusters. So, to me, that is a market opportunity that's coming to fruition. Sometimes people will come and say, Ajay, aren't you late to the market? I say, no, I'm just perfectly timing it. 'Cause where does our value come in? It's enterprise readiness. We're the company that people look to when you have complexity, you have scale, you need performance, you need security, you need the robustness. And so, Tanzu is really about making modern applications real, helping you design, develop, build and run these applications. And with Aria, we're fundamentally changing the game around multicloud management. So the one-two punch of Tanzu and Aria is I'm most excited about. >> Isn't it true that most of the Kubernetes, you know, today is people pulling down open source and banging away. And now, they're looking for, you know, like you say, more of a robust management capability. >> You know, last two years when I would go to many of the largest customers, like, you know, we're doing good. We've got a DIY platform, we're building this. And then you go to the customer a year later, he's got knocked 30, 40 teams and he has Log4j happen. And all of a sudden he is like, oh, I don't want to be in the business of patching this thing or updating it. And, you know, when's the next shoe going to fall? So, that maturity curve is what I was talking about. >> Yeah. Free like a puppy. >> Ajay, you know, mentioned readiness, enterprise readiness and the timing's perfect. You kind of included, not your exact words, but I'm paraphrasing. That's a lot to do with what's going on. I mean, I'll say Cloud Native, IWS, think of the hyper scale partner, big partner and Google and even Google said it today. You know, the market world's spinning in their direction. Especially with respect to VMware. You get the relationship with the hyperscalers. Cloud's been on everyone's agenda for a long time. So, it's always been ready. But enterprise, you are customer base at VMware, very cloud savvy in the sense they know it's there, there's some dabbling, there's some endeavors in the cloud, no problem. But from a business perspective and truly transforming the VMware value proposition, is already, they're ready and it's already time now for them, like, you can see the movement. And so, can you explain the timing of that? I mean, I get enterprise readiness, so we're ready to scale all that good stuff. But the timing of product market fit is important here. >> I think when Raghu talks about that cloud first to cloud chaos, to cloud smart, that's the transition we're seeing. And what I mean by that is, they're hitting that inflection point where it's not just about a single team. One of the guys, basically I talked to the CIO, he was like, look, let's assume hypothetically I have thousand developers. Hundred can talk about microservices, maybe 50 has built a microservice and three are really good at it. So how do I get my thousand developers productive? Right? And the other CIO says, this team comes to me and says, I should be able develop directly to the public cloud. And he goes, absolutely you can do that. You don't have to come through IT. But here's the book of security and compliance that you need to enforce to get that thing in production. >> Go for it. >> Go for it. >> Good luck with that. >> So that reality of how do I scale my dev developers is turning into a developer experience problem. We now have titles which says, head of developer experience. Imagine that two years ago. We didn't talk about it. People start, hey, containers Kubernetes. I'm good to go. I can go get all the open source technology you talked about. And now they're saying no. >> And also software supply chains, another board that you're think. This is a symptom of the growth. I mean, open source is the software industry. That is, I don't think debatable. >> Right. >> Okay. That's cool. But now integration becomes vetting, trust, trusting codes. It's very interesting software time right now. >> That's right. >> And how is that impacting the cloud native momentum in your mind? Accelerating it? What inning are we in? How would you peg the progress? >> You know, on that scale of 1 to 10, I think we're halfway marked now. And that moved pretty quickly. >> It really did. >> And if you sit back today, the kinds of applications we're involved in, I have a Chicago wealth management company. We're building the next generation wealth management application. It's a fundamental refactoring of the legacy application. If you go to a prescription company, they're building a brand new prescription platform. These are not just trivial. What they're learning is the lift and shift. Doesn't work for these major applications. They're having to refactor them which is the modernization. >> So how specifically, are they putting some kind of abstraction layer on that? Are they actually gutting it and rewriting it? >> There's always going to be brownfield. Remember the old days of SOA? >> Yeah, yeah. >> They are putting APIs in front of their main systems. They're not rewriting the core banking or the core platform, but the user experience, the business logic, the AIML capability to bring intelligence in the platform. It's surrounding the capability to make it much more intuitive, much more usable, much more declarative. That's where things are going. And so I'm seeing this mix of integration all over again. Showing my age now. But, you know, the new EAI so is now microservices and messaging and events with the same patterns. But again, being much more accelerated with cloud native services. >> And it is to the point, it's accelerated today. They're not having to freeze the code for six months or nine months and that which would kill the whole recipe for failure. So they're able to now to fast track their modernization. They have to prioritize 'cause they got limited resources. But how are you guys coming up to that? >> But the practice is changing as well, right? Well, the old days, it was 12, 18 months cycle or anything software. If you heard the CVS CIO, Rohan. >> Yeah. >> Three months where they started to engage with us in getting an app in production, right? If you look at the COVID, 10 days to get kind of a new application for getting small loans going with Pfizer, right? These are dramatically short term, but it's not rewriting the entire app. It's just putting these newer experiences, newer capability in front with newer modern developer practices. And they're saying, I need to do it not just once, but for 100, 200, 5,000 members. JPMC has 50,000 developers. Fifty thousand. They're not a bank anymore. >> We just have thousands of apps. >> Exactly. >> Ajay, I want to get your thoughts on something that we've been talking about on our super cloud event. I know we had an event a couple weeks ago, you guys were one of our sponsors, VMware was. It was called super cloud where we're defining that this next gen environment's a super cloud and every company will have a super cloud capability. And underneath that is cross cloud capabilities. So, super cloud is like a super set on top of a multi-cloud. And little word play or play on words is, ecosystem partners versus partners in the ecosystem. Because if you're coming down to the integration side of things, it's about knowing what goes what, it's almost like building an OS if you're a coder or an operating systems person. You got to put the pieces together right, not just go to the directory and say, okay, who's got the cheapest price in DR or air gaping or something or some solution. So ecosystem partners are truly partners. Partners in the ecosystem are a bunch of people out on a list. How do you see that? Because the trend we're seeing is, the development process includes partners at day one. >> That's right. Not bolt-on. >> Completely agree. >> Share your thoughts on that. >> So let's look at that. The first thing I'm hearing from my customers is, they're trying to use all the public clouds as a new IS. That's the first API or contract infrastructures code IS. From then on they're saying, I want more and more portable services. And if you see the success of some of the data vendors and the messaging vendors, you're starting to see best of breed becoming part of the platform. So you are to identify which of these are truly, you know, getting market momentum and are becoming kind of defacto leaders. So, Kafka goes hand in hand with streaming. RabbitMQ from my portfolio goes with messaging. Postgres for database. So these are the, in your definition, ecosystem partners, they're foundational. In the security space, you know, Snyk is a common player in terms of scanning or Aqua and Prisma even though we have Carbon Black. Those become partners from a container security perspective. So, what's happening is the industry stabilizing a handful of critical players that are becoming multi-cloud preference of choice in this. And our job is to bring it all together in a all coordinated, orchestrated manner to give them a platform. >> I mean, you guys always had ecosystem, but I think that priority more than ever. It wasn't really your job at VMware, even, Dave, 10 years ago to say, hey, this is the strategic role that you might play one partner. It was pretty much the partners all kind of fed off the momentum of VMware. Virtualization. And there's not a lot of nuance there. There's pretty much they plug in and you got. >> So what we're doing here is, since we're not the center of the universe, unfortunately, for the application world, things like Backstage is a developer portal from Spotify that became open source. That's becoming the place where everyone wants to provide a plugin. And so we took Backstage, we said, let's provide enterprise support for Backstage. If you take a technology like, you know, what we have with Spring. Every job where developer uses Spring, how do we make it modern with Spring cloud. We work with Microsoft to launch a service with Azure Spring Enterprise for Spring. So you're starting to see us taking communities where they have momentum and bringing the ecosystem around those technologies. Cluster API for Kubernetes, for have you managed stuff. >> Yeah. >> So it's about standard. >> Because the developers are voting with their clicks and their code repos. And so you're identifying the patterns that they like. >> That's right. >> And aligning with them and connecting with them rather than trying to sell against it. >> Exactly. It's the end story with everyone. I say stop competing. So people used to think Tanzu is Kubernetes. It's really Tanzu is the modern application platform that runs on any Kubernetes. So I've changed the narrative. When Heptio was here, we were trying to be a Kubernetes player. I'm like, Kubernetes is just another dial tone. You can use mine, you can use OpenShift. So this week we announced support for OpenShift by Tanzu application platform. The values moving up, it's around outcomes. So industry standards, taking lead and solving the problem. >> You know, we had a panel at super cloud. Dave, I know you got a question. I'll get to you in a second. But the panel was the innovator's dilemma. And then during the event, one of the panelists, Chris Hoff knows VMware very well, Beaker on Twitter, said it should be called the integrators dilemma. Because the innovations here, >> How do you put it all together? >> But the integration of the, putting the piece parts together, building the thing is the innovation. >> And we come back and say, it's a secure software supply chain. It starts with great content. Did you know, I published most of the open source content on every hyperscaler through my Bitnami acquisition. So I start with great content that's curated. Then I allow you to create your own golden images. Then I have a build service that secures and so on and so forth and we bring the part. So, that opinionated solution, but batteries included but you can change it is been one of our key differentiator. We recognize the roles is going to be modular, come back and solve for it. >> So I want to understand sort of relationship Tanzu and Aria, John was talking about, you know, super cloud before we had our event. We had an earlier session where we help people understand that Aria was not, you know, vRealize renamed. >> It's rebranded. >> And reason I bring that up is because we had said it around super cloud, that one of the defining characteristics was, sorry, super PaaS, which is a specific purpose built PaaS layer designed to support your objective for multi-cloud. And speaking to a lot of people this week, there's a federated architecture, there's graph relationships, there's real time ability to ingest and analyze. That's unique. And that's IP that is purpose built for what you're doing. >> Absolutely. When I think what came out of all that learning is after 20 years of Pivotal and BA and what we learned that you still need some abstraction layer. Kubernetes is too low level. So what are the developer problems? What are the delivery problems? What are the operations and management problems? Aria solves all the operations and management problem. Tanzu solves a super PaaS problems. >> Yes. Right. >> Of providing a consistent way to build great software and the secure software supply chain to run on any infrastructure. So the combination of Tanzu and Aria complete the value chain. >> And it's different. Again, we get a lot of heat for this, but we're saying, look, we're trying to describe, it's not just IAS, PaaS, and SaaS of last decade. There's something new that's happening. And we chose the name super cloud. >> And what's the difference? It's modular. It's pluggable. It fits into the way you operate. >> Whereas PaaS was very prescriptive. If you couldn't fit, you couldn't jump down to the next level. This is very much, you can stay at the abstraction level or go lower level. >> Oh, we got to add that to the attribute. >> We're recruiting him right now. (laughs) >> We'll give you credit. >> I mean, funny all the web service's background. Look at an app server. You well knew all about app servers. Basically the company is an app. So, if you believe that, say, Capital One is an application as a company and Amazon's providing all the CapEx, >> That's it. >> Okay. And they run all their quote, old IT spend millions, billions of dollars on operating expenses that's going to translate to the top line called the income statement. So, Dave always says, oh, it's on the balance sheet, but now they're going to go to the top line. So we're seeing dynamic. Ajay, I want to get your reaction to this where the business model shift if everything's tech enabled, the company is like an app server. >> Correct. >> So therefore, the revenue that's generated from the technology, making the app work has to get recognized in the income. Okay. But Amazon's doing all, or the cloud hyperscale is doing all the heavy lifting on the CapEx. So technically it's the cloud on top of a cloud. >> Yes and no. The way I look at it, >> I call that a super cloud. >> So I like the idea of super cloud, but I think we're mixing two different constructs. One is, the cloud is a new hardware, right? In terms of dynamic, elastic, always available, et cetera. And I believe when more and more customer I talk about, there's a service catalog of infrastructure services. That's emerging. This super cloud is the next set of PaaS super PaaS services. And the management service is to use the cloud. We spend so much time as VMware building clouds, the problem seems, how do you effectively use the cloud? What problems do we solve around digital where every company is a digital company and the product is this application, as you said. So everything starts with an application. And you look at from the lens of how you run the application, what it costs the application, what impact it's driving. And I think that's the change. So I agree with you in some way. That is a digital strategy. >> And that's the company. >> That's the company. The application is the company. >> That's the t-shirt. >> And API is the currency. >> So, Ajay, first of all, we love having you in theCube 'cause you're like a masterclass in multiple dimensions. So, I want to get your thoughts on the abstraction layer. 'Cause we were also talking earlier in theCube here as well as before. But abstraction layers happen when you have major movements in markets that are game changing or major inflection points because you've reached a complexity point where it's working so great, this new thing, that's too complex to reign it in. And we were quoting Andy Grove by saying, "let chaos reign then reign in the chaos". So, all major industry moments go back 30, 40 years happen with abstractions. So the question is is that, you can't be a vendor, we've observed you can't be a vendor and be the abstraction. Like, if Cisco's running routers, they can't be the abstraction layer. They have to be the benefit of the abstraction layer. And if you're on the other side of the abstraction layer, you can't be running that either. >> I like the way you're thinking about it. Yeah. Do you agree? >> I completely agree. And, you know, I'm an old middleware guy. And when I used to say this to my CEO, he's like, no, it's not middleware, it's just a new middleware. And what's middleware, right? It's a thing between app and infrastructure. You could define it whatever we want, right? And so this is the new distributed middleware. >> It's a metaphor and it's a good one because it does a purpose. >> It's a purpose. >> It creates a separation but then you have, it's like a DMZ zone or whatever you want to call it. It's an area that things happen. >> But the difference before last time was, you could always deploy it to a thing. The thing is now the cloud. The thing is a set of services. So now it's as much of a networking problem at the application layer is as much as security problem. It's how you build software, how we design. So APIs, become part of your development. You can't think of APIs after the fact, right? When you build an API, you got to publish API because the minute you publish it and if you change it, the API's out of. So you can't have it as a documentation process. So, the way you build software, you use software consume is all about it. So to me, digital product with an API as a currency is where we're headed towards. >> Yeah, that's a great observation. Want to make a mental note of that and make that a clip. I want to get your thoughts on software development. You mentioned that, obviously software development life cycles are changing. I'll say open sources now. I mean, it's unlimited codes, supply chain issue. What's in the code, I get that verified codes going to happen. Is software development coding as much or is coding changing the notion of writing code? Or is it more glue layer you're writing. >> I think you're onto something. I call software developments composition now. My son's at Facebook or Google. They have so many libraries. So you don't no longer start with the very similar primitive, you start with building blocks, components, services, libraries, open source technology. What are you really doing? You're composing these things from multiple artifacts. And how do you make sure those artifacts are good artifacts? So someone's not sticking in security in a vulnerability into it. So, the world is moving towards composition and there are few experts who build the core components. Most of the time we're just using those to build solutions. And so, the art here is, how do you provide that set of best practices? We call them patterns or building blocks or services that you can compose to build these next generation (indistinct) >> It's interesting. >> Cooking meals. >> I agree with you a hundred percent what you're thinking. I agree about that worldview. Here's a dilemma that I'm seeing. In the security world, you've got zero trust. You know, Which is, I don't know you, I don't trust you at all. And if you're going to go down this composed, we're going to have an orchestra of players with instruments, say to speak, Dave, metaphor. That's trust involved. >> Yes. >> So you have two spectrums of issues. >> Yes. >> If software's going trust and you're seeing Docker containers getting more verifications, software supply chain, and then you got hardware I call network guys, love zero trust. Where's the balance? How do you reconcile that? Is it just decoupled? Nuance? I mean, what's the point? >> No, no. I think it all comes together. And what I mean by that is, it starts with left shifting it all the way to hands of the developers, right? So, are you starting with good content? You have providence of the stuff you're using. Are you building it correctly? So you're not introducing bad things like solar winds along the process. Are you testing it along the way of the development process? And then once in production, do you know, half the time it's configurations of where you're running the stuff versus the software itself. So you can think of the two coming together. And the network security is protecting people from going laterally once they've got in there. So, a whole security solution requires all of the above, a secure software supply chain, the way to kind of monitor and look at configuration, we call posture management or workload management and the network security of SaaS-e for zero trust. That's a hard thing. And the boundary is the application. >> All right. >> So is it earned trust model sort of over time? >> No, it's designed in, it's been a thing. >> Okay. So it's not a, >> Because it developed. >> You can bolt in afterwards. >> Because the developers are driving it. They got to know what they're doing. >> And it's changing every week. If I'm putting a new code out every week. You can't, it can be changed to something else. >> Well, you guys got guardrails. The guardrails constant is a good example. >> It stops on the configuration side, but I also need the software. So, Tanzu is all about, the secure chain is about the development side of the house. Guardrails are on the operational side of the house. >> To make sure the developers don't stop. >> That's right. >> Things will always get out there. And I find out there's a CV that I use a library, I found after the fact. >> Okay. So again, while I got here again, this is great. I want to get test this thesis. So, we've been saying on theCube, talking about the new ops, the new kind of ops that emerging. DevOps, which we believe is cloud native. So DevOps moving infrastructure's code, that's happened, it's all good. Open source is growing. DevOps is done deal. It's done deal. Developers are doing that. That ops was IT. Then don't need the server, clouds my hardware. Check. That balances. The new ops is data and security which has to match up to the velocity of the developers. Do you believe that? >> Completely. That's why we call it DevSecOps. And the Sec is where all the action is. >> And data. And data too. >> And data is about making the data available where the app meets. So the problem was, you know, we had to move the logic to where the data is or you're going to move the data where the logic is. So data fabrics are going to become more and more interesting. I'll give you a simple example. I publish content today in a service catalog. My customer's saying, but my content catalog needs to be in 300 locations. How do I get the content to each of the repos that are running in 300 location? So I have a content distribution problem. So you call it a data problem. Yes, it's about getting the right data. Whether it's simple as even content, images available for use for deployment. >> So you think when I think about the application development stack and the analytics stack, the data stack, if I can call it that, they're separate, right? Are those worlds, I mean, people say, I want to inject data and AI intelligence into apps. Those worlds have deployment? I think about the insight from the historical being projected in the operational versus they all coming together. I have a Greenplum platform, it's a great analytics platform. I have a transactional platform. Do my customers buy the same? No, they're different buyers, they're different users. But the insight from that is being now plugged in so that at real time I can ask the question. So even this information is being made available on demand. So that's where I see it. And that's most coming together, but the insight is being incorporated in the operational use. So I can say, do I give the risk score? Do I give you credit? It's based on a whole bunch of historical analytics done. And at the real time, processing is happening, but the intelligence is behind it. >> It's a mind shift for sure because the old model was, I have a database, we're good. Now you have time series database, you got graphs. Each one has a role in the overall construct of the new thing. >> But it's about at the end. How do I make use of it? Someone built a smart AI model. I don't know how it was built, but I want to apply it for that particular purpose. >> Okay. So the final question for you, at least from my standpoint is, here at VMware Explore, you have a lot of the customers and so new people coming in that we've heard about, what's their core order of operations right now? Get on the bandwagon for modern apps. How do you see their world unfolding as they go back to the ranch, their places, and go back to their boss? Okay. We got the modern application. We're on the right track boss, full steam ahead. Or what change do they make? >> I think the biggest thing I saw was with some of the branding changes well and some of the new offerings. The same leader had two teams, the VMware team and the public cloud team. And they're saying, hey, maybe VMware's going to be the answer for both. And that's the world model. That's the biggest change I'm seeing. They were only thinking of us on the left column. Now they see us as a unifying player to play across cloud native and VMware, the uniquely set up to bring it all together. That's been really exciting this week. >> All right, Ajay, great to have you on. Great perspective. Worthy of great stuff. Congratulations on the success of all that investment coming to bear. >> Thank you. >> And on the new management platform. >> Yeah. Thank you. And thanks always for giving us all the support we need. It's always great. >> All right Cube coverage here. Getting all the data, getting inside the heads, getting all the specifics and all the new trends and actually connecting the dots here on theCube. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Stay tuned for more coverage from day two. Two sets, three days, Cube at VMware Explore. We'll be right back. (gentle music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of VMworld 2021. I'm Lisa Martin. I've got a CUBE alum with me next. Ajay Patel is here, the SVP and GM of Modern Apps and Management at VMware. Ajay, welcome back to the program, it's great to see you. >> Well thank you for having me. It's always great to be here. >> Glad that you're doing well. I want to dig into your role as SVP and GM with Modern Apps and Management. Talk to me about some of the dynamics of your role and then we'll get into the vision and the strategy that VMware has. >> Makes sense. VMware has created a business group called Modern Apps and Management, with the single mission of helping our customers accelerate their digital transformation through software. And we're finding them leveraging both the edge and the multiple clouds they deploy on. So our mission here is helping, them be the cloud diagnostic manager for application development and management through our portfolio of Tazu and VRealize solutions allowing customers to both build and operate applications at speed across these edge data center and cloud deployments And the big thing we hear is all the day two challenges, right of managing costs, risks, security, performance. That's really the essence of what the business group is about. How do we speed idea to production and allow you to operate at scale. >> When we think of speed, we can't help, but think of the acceleration that we've seen in the last 18 months, businesses transforming digitally to first survive the dynamics of the market. But talk to me about how the, the pandemic has influenced catalyzed VMware's vision here. >> You can see in every industry, this need for speed has really accelerated. What used to be weeks and months of planning and execution has materialized into getting something out in production in days. One of great example I can remember is one of my financial services customer that was responsible for getting all the COVID payments out to the small businesses and being able to get that application from idea to production matter of 10 days, it was just truly impressive to see the teams come together, to come up with the idea, put the software together and getting production so that we could start delivering the financial funds the companies needed, to keep them viable. So great social impact and great results in matter of days. >> And again, that acceleration that we've seen there, there's been a lot of silver linings, I think, but I want to get in next to some of the industry trends that are influencing app modernization. What are you seeing in the customer environment? What are some of those key trends that are driving adoption? >> I mean, this move to cloud is here to stay and most of customers have a cloud first strategy, and we rebranded this from VMware the cloud smart strategy, but it's not just about one particular flavor of cloud. We're putting the best workload on the best cloud. But the reality is when I speak to many of the customers is they're way behind on the bar of digital plats. And it's, that's because the simple idea of, you know, lift and shift or completely rewrite. So there's no one fits all and they're struggling with hardware capability, their the development teams, their IT assets, the applications are modernized across these three things. So we see modernization kind of fall in three categories, infrastructure modernization, the practice of development or devops modernization, and the application transform itself. And we are starting to find out that customers are struggling with all three. Well, they want to leverage the best of cloud. They just don't have the skills or the expertise to do that effectively. >> And how does VMware help address that skills gap. >> Yeah, so the way we've looked at it is we put a lot of effort around education. So on the everyone knows containers and Kubernetes is the future. They're looking to build these modern microservices, architectures and applications. A lot of investment in just kind of putting the effort to help customers learn these new tools, techniques, and create best practices. So theCUBE academy and the effort and the investment putting in just enabling the ecosystem now with the skills and capabilities is one big effort that VMware is putting. But more importantly, on the product side, we're delivering solutions that help customers both build design, deliver and operate these applications on Kubernetes across the cloud of choice. I'm most excited about our announcement around this product. We're just launching called Tanzu application platform. It is what we call an application aware platform. It's about making it easy for developers to take the ideas and get into production. It kind of bridging that gap that exists between development and operations. We hear a lot about dev ops, as you know, how do you bring that to life? How do you make that real? That's what Tanzu application platform is about. >> I'm curious of your customer conversations, how they've changed in the last year or so in terms of, app modernization, things like security being board level conversations, are you noticing that that is rising up the chain that app modernization is now a business critical initiative for our businesses? >> So it's what I'm finding is it's the means. It's not that if you think about the board level conversations about digital transformation you know, I'm a financial services company. I need to provide mobile FinTech. I'm competing with this new age application and you're delivering the same service that they offered digitally now, right. Like from a retail bank. I can't go to the store, the retail branch anymore, right. I need to provide the same capability for payments processing all online through my mobile phone. So it's really the digitalization of the traditional processes that we're finding most exciting. In order to do that, we're finding that no applications are in cloud right. They had to take the existing financial applications and put a mobile frontend to it, or put some new business logic or drive some transformation there. So it's really a transformation around existing application to deliver a business outcome. And we're focusing it through our Tanzu lab services, our capabilities of Tanzu application platform, all the way to the operations and management of getting these products in production or these applications in production. So it's the full life cycle from idea to production is what customers are looking for. They're looking to compress the cycle time as you and I spoke about, through this agility they're looking for. >> Right, definitely a compressed cycle time. Talk to me about some of the other announcements that are being made at VMworld with respect to Tanzu and helping customers on the app modernization front, and that aligned to the vision and mission that you talked about. >> Wonderful, I would say they're kind of, I put them in three buckets. One is what are we doing to help developers get access to the new technology. Back to the skills learning part of it, most excited about Tanzu of community edition and Tanzu mission control starter pack. This is really about getting Kubernetes stood up in your favorite deployment of choice and get started building your application very quickly. We're also announcing Tanzu application platform that I spoke about, we're going to beta 2 for that platform, which makes it really easy for developers to get access to Kubernetes capability. It makes development easy. We're also announcing marketplace enhancements, allowing us to take the best of breed IC solutions and making them available to help you build applications faster. So one set of announcements around building applications, delivering value, getting them down to market very quickly. On the management side, we're really excited about the broad portfolio management we've assembled. We're probably in the customer's a way to build a cloud operating model. And in the cloud operating model, it's about how do I do VMs and containers? How do I provide a consistent management control plane so I can deliver applications on the cloud of my choice? How do I provide intrinsic observability, intrinsic security so I can operate at scale. So this combination of development tooling, platform operations, and day two operations, along with enhancements in our cost management solution with CloudHealth or being able to take our universal capabilities for consumption, driving insight and observity that really makes it a powerful story for customers, either on the build or develop or deploy side of the equation. >> You mentioned a couple of things are interesting. Consistency being key from a management perspective, especially given this accelerated time in which we're living, but also you mentioned security. We've seen so much movement on the security front in the last year and a half with the massive rise in ransomware attacks, ransomware now becoming a household word. Talk to me about the security factor and how you're helping customers from a risk mitigation perspective, because now it's not, if we get attacked, it's when. >> And I think it's really starts with, we have this notion of a secure software supply chain. We think of software as a production factory from idea to production. And if you don't start with known good hard attacks to start with, trying to wire in security after attack is just too difficult. So we started with secure content, curated images content catalogs that customers are setting up as best practices. We started with application accelerators. These are best practice that codifies with the right guard rails in place. And then we automate that supply chain so that you have checks in every process, every step of the way, whether it's in the build process and the deploy process or in runtime production. And you had to do this at the application layer because there is no kind of firewall or edge you can protect the application is highly distributed. So things like application security and API security, another area we announced a new offering at VM world around API security, but everything starts with an API endpoint when you have a security. So security is kind of woven in into the design build, deploy and in the runtime operation. And we're kind of wire this in intrinsically to the platform with best of breed security partners now extending in evolving their solution on top of us. >> What's been some of the customer feedback from some of the new technologies that you announced. I'm curious, I imagine knowing how VMware is very customer centric, customers were essential in the development and iteration of the technologies, but just give me some of the idea on customer feedback of this direction that you're going. >> Yeah, there's a great, exciting example where we're working with the army to create a software factory. you would've never imagined right, The US army being a software digital enterprise, we're partnering with what we call the US army futures command in a joint effort to help them build the first ever software development factory where army personnel are actually becoming true cloud native developers, where you're putting the soldiers to do cloud native development, everything in the terms of practice of building software, but also using the Tanzu portfolio in delivering best-in-class capability. This is going to rival some of the top tech companies in Silicon valley. This is a five-year prototype project in which we're picking cohorts of soldiers, making them software developers and helping them build great capability through both combination of classroom based training, but also strong technical foundation and expertise provided by our lab. So this is an example where, you know, the industry is working with the customer to co-innovate, how we build software, but also driving the expertise of these personnel hierarchs. As a soldier, you know, what you need, what if you could start delivering solutions for rest of your members in a productive way. So very exciting, It's an example where we've leapfrogging and delivering the kind of the Silicon valley type innovation to our standard practice. It's traditionally been a procurement driven model. We're trying to speed that and drive it into a more agile delivery factory concept as well. So one of the most exciting projects that I've run into the last six months. >> The army software factory, I love that my dad was an army medic and combat medic in Vietnam. And I'm sure probably wouldn't have been apt to become a software developer. But tell me a little bit about, it's a very cool project and so essential. Talk to me a little bit about the impetus of the army software factory. How did that come about? >> You know, this came back with strong sponsorship from the top. I had an opportunity to be at the opening of the campus in partnership with the local Austin college. And as General Milley and team spoke about it, they just said the next battleground is going to be a digital backup power hub. It's something we're going to have to put our troops in place and have modernized, not just the army, but modernize the way we deliver it through software. It's it speaks so much to the digital transformation we're talking about right. At the very heart of it is about using software to enable whether it's medics, whether it's supplies, either in a real time intelligence on the battlefield to know what's happening. And we're starting to see user technology is going to drive dramatically hopefully the next war, we don't have to fight it more of a defensive mode, but that capability alone is going to be significant. So it's really exciting to see how technology has become pervasive in all aspects, in every format including the US army. And this partnership is a great example of thought leadership from the army command to deliver software as the innovation factory, for the army itself. >> Right, and for the army to rival Silicon valley tech companies, that's pretty impressive. >> Pretty ambitious right. In partnership with one of the local colleges. So that's also starting to show in terms of how to bring new talent out, that shortage of skills we talked about. It's a critical way to kind of invest in the future in our people, right? As we, as we build out this capability. >> That's excellent that investment in the future and helping fill those skills gaps across industries is so needed. Talk to me about some of the things that you're excited about this year's VMworld is again virtual, but what are some of the things that you think are really fantastic for customers and prospects to learn? >> I think as Raghu said, we're in the third act of VM-ware, but more interestingly, but the third act of where the cloud is, the cloud has matured cloud 2.0 was really about shifting and using a public cloud for the IS capabilities. Cloud 3.0 is about to use the cloud of choice for the best application. We are going to increasingly see this distributed nature of application. I asked most customers, where does your application run? It's hard to answer that, right? It's on your mobile device, it's in your storefront, it's in your data center, it's in a particular cloud. And so an application is a collection of services. So what I'm most excited about is all business capables being published as an API, had an opportunity to be part of a company called Sonos and then Apogee. And we talked about API management years ago. I see increasingly this need for being able to expose a business capability as an API, being able to compose these new applications rapidly, being able to secure them, being able to observe what's going on in production and then adjust and automate, you can scale up scale down or deploy the application where it's most needed in minutes. That's a dynamic future that we see, and we're excited that VM was right at the heart of it. Where that in our cloud agnostic software player, that can help you, whether it's your development challenges, your deployment challenges, or your management challenges, in the future of multi-cloud, that's what I'm most excited about, we're set up to help our customers on this cloud journey, regardless of where they're going and what solution they're looking to build. >> Ajay, what are some of the key business outcomes that the cloud is going to deliver across industries as things progress forward? >> I think we're finding the consistent message I hear from our customers is leverage the power of cloud to transform my business. So it's about business outcomes. It's less about technology. It's what outcomes we're driving. Second it's about speed and agility. How do I respond, adjust kind of dynamic contiuness. How do I innovate continuously? How do I adjust to what the business needs? And third thing we're seeing more and more is I need to be able to management costs and I get some predictability and able to optimize how I run my business. what they're finding with the cloud is the costs are running out of control, they need a way, a better way of knowing the value that they're getting and using the best cloud for the right technology. Whether may be a private cloud in some cases, a public cloud or an edge cloud. So they want to able to going to select and move and have that portability. Being able to make those choices optimization is something they're demanding from us. And so we're most excited about this need to have a flexible infrastructure and a cloud agnostic infrastructure that helps them deliver these kinds of business outcomes. >> You mentioned a couple of customer examples and financial services. You mentioned the army software factory. In terms of looking at where we are in 2021. Are there any industries in particular, maybe essential services that you think are really prime targets for the technologies, the new announcements that you're making at VM world. >> You know, what we are trying to see is this is a broad change that's happening. If you're in retail, you know, you're kind of running a hybrid world of digital and physical. So we're seeing this blending of physical and digital reality coming together. You know, FedEx is a great customer of ours and you see them as spoken as example of it, you know, they're continue to both drive operational change in terms of being delivering the packages to you on time at a lower cost, but on the other side, they're also competing with their primary partners and retailers and in some cases, right, from a distribution perspective for Amazon, with Amazon prime. So in every industry, you're starting to see the lines are blurring between traditional partners and competitors. And in doing so, they're looking for a way to innovate, innovate at speed and leverage technology. So I don't think there is a specific industry that's not being disrupted whether it's FinTech, whether it's retail, whether it's transportation logistics, or healthcare telemedicine, right? The way you do pharmaceutical, how you deliver medicine, it's all changing. It's all being driven by data. And so we see a broad application of our technology, but financial services, healthcare, telco, government tend to be a kind of traditional industries that are with us but I think the reaches are pretty broad. >> Yeah, it is all changing. Everything is becoming more and more data-driven and many businesses are becoming data companies or if they're not, they need to otherwise their competition, as you mentioned, is going to be right in the rear view mirror, ready to take their place. But that's something that we see that isn't being talked about. I don't think enough, as some of the great innovations coming as a result of the situation that we're in. We're seeing big transformations in industries where we're all benefiting. I think we need to get that, that word out there a little bit more so we can start showing more of those silver linings. >> Sure. And I think what's happening here is it's about connecting the people to the services at the end of the day, these applications are means for delivering value. And so how do we connect us as consumers or us employees or us as partners to the business to the operator with both digitally and in a physical way. And we bring that in a seamless experience. So we're seeing more and more experience matters, you know, service quality and delivery matter. It's less about the technologies back again to the outcomes. And so very much focused in building that the platform that our customers can use to leverage the best of the cloud, the best of their people, the best of the innovation they have within the organization. >> You're right. It's all about outcomes. Ajay, thank you for joining me today, talking about some of the new things that the mission of your organization, the vision, some of the new products and technologies that are being announced at VM world, we appreciate your time and hopefully next year we'll see you in person. >> Thank you again and look forward to the next VMWorld in person. >> Likewise for Ajay Patel. You're very welcome for Ajay Patel. I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching theCUBEs coverage of VMWorld of 2021. (soft music)

(bright music) >> Hey welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE We are high atop San Francisco in the Sales Force Tower in the new Accenture offices, it's really beautiful and as part of that, they have their San Francisco Innovation Hubs. So it's five floors of maker's labs, and 3D printing, and all kinds of test facilities and best practices, innovation theater, and this studio which is really fun to be at. So we're talking about hybrid cloud and the development of cloud and multi-cloud and continuing on this path. Not only are customers on this path, but everyone is kind of on this path as things kind of evolve and transform. We are excited to have a couple of experts in the field we've got Larry Socher, he's the Global Managing Director of Intelligent Cloud Infrastructure Services growth and strategy at Accenture. Larry, great to see you again. >> Great to be here, Jeff. And Ajay Patel, he's the Senior Vice President and General Manager at Cloud Provider Software Business Unit at VMWare and a theCUBE alumni as well. >> Excited to be here, thank you for inviting me. >> So, first off, how do you like the digs up here? >> Beautiful place, and the fact we're part of the innovation team, thank you for that. >> So let's just dive into it. So a lot of crazy stuff happening in the marketplace. Lot of conversations about hybrid cloud, multi-cloud, different cloud, public cloud, movement of back and forth from cloud. Just want to get your perspective today. You guys have been in the middle of this for a while. Where are we in this kind of evolution? Everybody's still kind of feeling themselves out, is it, we're kind of past the first inning so now things are settling down? How do you kind of view the evolution of this market? >> Great question and I think Pat does a really nice job of defining the two definitions. What's hybrid versus multi? And simply put, we look at hybrid as when you have consistent infrastructure. It's the same infrastructure regardless of location. Multi is when you have disparate infrastructure, but are using them in a collective. So just from a from a level setting perspective, the taxonomy is starting to get standardized. Industry is starting to recognize hybrid is the reality. It's not a step in the long journey. It is an operating model that going to exist for a long time. So it's not about location. It's about how do you operate in a multi-cloud and a hybrid cloud world. And together at Accenture VMware have a unique opportunity. Also, the technology provider, Accenture, as a top leader in helping customers figure out where best to land their workload in this hybrid, multi-cloud world. Because workloads are driving decisions. >> Jeff: Right. >> We are going to be in this hybrid, multi-cloud world for many years to come. >> Do I need another layer of abstraction? 'Cause I probably have some stuff that's in hybrid and I probably have some stuff in multi, right? 'Cause those are probably not mutually exclusive, either. >> We talked a lot about this, Larry and I were chatting as well about this. And the reality is the reason you choose a specific cloud, is for those native differentiator capability. So abstraction should be just enough so you can make workloads portable. To be able to use the capability as natively as possible. And by fact that we now at VMware have a native VMware running on every major hyperscaler and on pram, gives you that flexibility you want of not having to abstract away the goodness of the cloud while having a common and consistent infrastructure while tapping into the innovations that the public cloud brings. So, it is the evolution of what we've been doing together from a private cloud perspective to extend that beyond the data center, to really make it an operating model that's independent of location. >> Right, so Larry, I'm curious your perspective when you work with customers, how do you help them frame this? I mean I always feel so sorry for corporate CIAOs. I mean they got security going on like crazy, they go GDPR now I think, right? The California regs that'll probably go national. They have so many things to be worried about. They go to keep up on the latest technology, what's happening in containers. I thought it was doc, now you tell me it's Kubernetes. It's really tough. So how do you help them kind of, put a wrapper around it? >> It's got to start with the application. I mean you look at cloud, you look at infrastructure more broadly I mean. It's there to serve the applications and it's the applications that really drive business value. So I think the starting point has to be application led. So we start off, we have our intelligent engineering guys, our platform guys, who really come in and look and do an application modernization strategy. So they'll do an assessment, you know, most of our clients given their scale and complexity usually have from 500 to 20,000 applications. You know, very large estates. And you got to start to figure out okay what's my current applications? A lot of times they'll use the six Rs methodology and they say hey okay what is it? I'm going to retire this, I no longer need it. It no longer has business value. Or I'm going to replace this with SaaS. I move it to sales force for example, or service now, etcetera . Then they're going to start to look at their workloads and say okay, hey, do I need to re-fact of reformat this. Or re-host it. And one of the things obviously, VMware has done a fantastic job is allowing you to re-host it using their software to find data center, you know, in the hyperscaler's environment. >> We call it just, you know, migrate and then modernize. >> Yeah, exactly. But the modernized can't be missed. I think that's where a lot of times we see clients kind of get in the trap, hey, i'm just going to migrate and then figure it out. You need to start to have a modernization strategy and then, 'cause that's ultimately going to dictate your multi and your hybrid cloud approach, is how those apps evolve and you know the dispositions of those apps to figure out do they get replaced. What data sets need to be adjacent to each other? >> Right, so Ajay, you know we were there when Pat was with Andy and talking about VMware on AWS. And then, you know, Sanjay is showing up at everybody else's conference. He's at Google Cloud talking about VMware on Google Cloud. I'm sure there was a Microsoft show I probably missed you guys were probably there, too. You know, it's kind of interesting, right, from the outside looking in, you guys are not a public cloud, per se, and yet you've come up with this great strategy to give customers the options to adopt VMware in a public cloud and then now we're seeing where even the public cloud providers are saying, "Here, stick this box in your data center". It's like this little piece of our cloud floating around in your data center. So talk about the evolution of the strategy, and kind of what you guys are thinking about 'cause you know you are clearly in a leadership position making a lot of interesting acquisitions. How are you guys see this evolving and how are you placing your bets? >> You know Pat has been always consistent about this and any strategy. Whether it's any cloud or any device. Any workload, if you will, or application. And as we started to think about it, one of the big things we focused on was meeting the customer where he was at in his journey. Depending on the customer, they may simply be trying to figure out working out to get on a data center. All the way, to how to drive an individual transformation effort. And a partner like Accenture, who has the breadth and depth and sometimes the vertical expertise and the insight. That's what customers are looking for. Help me figure out in my journey, first tell me where I'm at, where am I going, and how I make that happen. And what we've done in a clever way in many ways is, we've created the market. We've demonstrated that VMware is the only, consistent infrastructure that you can bet on and leverage the benefits of the private or public cloud. And I often say hybrid's a two-way street now. Which is they are bringing more and more hybrid cloud services on pram. And where is the on pram? It's now the edge. I was talking to the Accenture folks and they were saying the metro edge, right? So you're starting to see the workloads And I think you said almost 40 plus percent of future workloads are now going to be in the central cloud. >> Yeah, and actually there's an interesting stat out there. By 2022, seventy percent of data will be produced and processed outside the cloud. So I mean the edge is about to, as we are on the tipping point of IOT finally taking off beyond smart meters. We're going to see a huge amount of data proliferate out there. So the lines between between public and private have becoming so blurry. You can outpost, you look at, Antheos, Azure Stack for ages. And that's where I think VMware's strategy is coming to fruition. You know they've-- >> Sometimes it's great when you have a point of view and you stick with it against the conventional wisdom. And then all of a sudden everyone is following the herd and you are like, "This is great". >> By the way, Anjay hit on a point about the verticalization. Every one of our clients, different industries have very different paths there. And to the meaning that the customer where they're on their journey. I mean if you talk to a pharmaceutical, you know, GXP compliance, big private cloud, starting to dip their toes into public. You go to Mians and they've been very aggressive public. >> Or in manufacturing with Edge Cloud. >> Exactly. >> So it really varies by industry. >> And that's a very interesting area. Like if you look at all the OT environments of the manufacturing. We start to see a lot of end of life of environments. So what's that next generation of control systems going to run on? >> So that's interesting on the edge because and you've brought up networking a couple times while we've been talking as a potential gate, right, when one of them still in the gates, but we're seeing more and more. We were at a cool event, Churchill Club when they had psy links, micron, and arm talking about shifting more of the compute and store on these edge devices to accommodate, which you said, how much of that stuff can you do at the edge versus putting in? But what I think is interesting is, how are you going to manage that? There is a whole different level of management complexity when now you've got this different level of distributing computing. >> And security. >> And security. Times many, many thousands of these devices all over the place. >> You might have heard recent announcements from VMware around the Carbon Black acquisition. >> Yeah. >> That combined with our workspace one and the pulse IOT, we are now giving you the management framework whether it's for people, for things, or devices. And that consistent security on the client, tied with our network security with NSX all the way to the data center security. We're starting to look at what we call intrinsic security. How do we bake security into the platform and start solving these end to end? And have our partner, Accenture, help design these next generation application architectures, all distributed by design. Where do you put a fence? You could put a fence around your data center but your app is using service now and other SaaS services. So how do you set up an application boundary? And the security model around that? So it's really interesting times. >> You hear a lot about our partnership around software defined data center, around networking. With Villo and NSX. But we've actually been spending a lot of time with the IOT team and really looking and a lot of our vision aligns. Actually looking at they've been working with similar age in technology with Liota where, ultimately the edge computing for IOT is going to have to be containerized. Because you're going to need multiple modalware stacks, supporting different vertical applications. We were actually working with one mind where we started off doing video analytics for predictive maintenance on tires for tractors which are really expensive the shovels, et cetera. We started off pushing the data stream, the video stream, up into Azure but the network became a bottleneck. We couldn't get the modality. So we got a process there. They're now looking into autonomous vehicles which need eight megabits load latency band width sitting at the edge. Those two applications will need to co-exist and while we may have Azure Edge running in a container down doing the video analytics, if Caterpillar chooses Green Grass or Jasper, that's going to have to co-exist. So you're going to see the whole containerization that we are starting to see in the data center, is going to push out there. And the other side, Pulse, the management of the Edge, is going to be very difficult. >> I think the whole new frontier. >> Yeah absolutely. >> That's moving forward and with 5G IntelliCorp. They're trying to provide value added services. So what does that mean from an infrastructure perspective? >> Right, right. >> When do you stay on the 5G radio network versus jumping on a back line? When do you move data versus process on the edge? Those are all business decisions that need to be there into some framework. >> So you guys are going, we can go and go and go. But I want to follow up on your segway on containers. 'Cause containers is such an important part of this story and an enabler to this story. And you guys made and aggressive move with Hep TO. We've had Craig McLuckie on when he was still at Google and Dan, great guys. But it's kind of funny right? 'Cause three years ago, everyone was going to DockerCon right? That was like, we're all about shows. That was the hot show. Now Docker's kind of faded and Kubernetes is really taking off. Why, for people that aren't familiar with Kubernetes, they probably hear it at cocktail parties if they live in the Bay area. Why is containers such an important enabler and what's so special about Kubernetes specifically? >> Do you want to go on the general or? >> Why don't your start off? >> I brought my products stuff for sure. >> If you look at the world its getting much more dynamic. Particularly as you start to get more digitally decoupled applications, you're starting, we've come from a world where a virtual machine might have been up for months or years to all the sudden you have containers that are much more dynamic, allowed to scale quickly, and then they need to be orchestrated. And that's essentially what Kubernetes does, is really start to orchestrate that. And as we get more distributed workloads, you need to coordinate them. You need to be able to scale up as you need for performance etcetera So Kubernetes is an incredible technology that allows you really to optimize the placement of that. So just like the virtual machine changed how we compute, containers now gives us a much more flexible, portable, you can run on any infrastructure at any location. Closer to the data etcetera to do that. >> I think the bold move we made is, we finally, after working with customers and partners like Accenture, we have a very comprehensive strategy. We announced Project Tanzu at our last VM World. And Project Tanzu really focused on three aspects of containers, How do you build applications, which is what Pivotal and the acquisition of Pivotal was driven around. How do we run these on a robust enterprise class run time? And what if you could take every vSphere ESX out there and make it a container platform. Now we have half a million customers. 70 million VM's. All the sudden, that run time we are container enabling with a Project Pacific. So vSphere 7 becomes a common place for running containers and VMs. So that debate of VMs or containers? Done, gone. One place or just spend up containers and resources. And then the more important part is how do I manage this? As you have said. Becoming more of a platform, not just an orchestration technology. But a platform for how do I manage applications. Where I deploy them where it makes more sense. I've decoupled my application needs from the resources and Kubernetes is becoming that platform that allows me to portably. I'm the Java Weblogic guy, right? So this is like distributed Weblogic Java on steroids, running across clouds. So pretty exciting for a middleware guy, this is the next generation middleware. >> And to what you just said, that's the enabling infrastructure that will allow it to roll into future things like edge devices. >> Absolutely. >> You can manage an Edge client. You can literally-- >> the edge, yeah. 'Cause now you've got that connection. >> It's in the fabric that you are going to be able to connect. And networking becomes a key part. >> And one of the key things, and this is going to be the hard part is optimization. So how do we optimize across particularly performance but even cost? >> And security, rewiring security and availability. >> So still I think my all time favorite business book is Clayton Christensen, "Innovator's Dilemma". One of the most important lessons in that book is what are you optimizing for? And by rule, you can't optimize for everything equally. You have to rank order. But what I find really interesting in this conversation and where we're going and the complexity of the size of the data, the complexity of what am I optimizing for now just begs for plight AI. This is not a people problem to solve. This is AI moving fast. >> Smart infrastructure going to adapt. >> Right, so as you look at that opportunity to now apply AI over the top of this thing, opens up tremendous opportunity. >> Absolutely, I mean standardized infrastructure allows you, sorry, allows you to get more metrics. It allows you to build models to optimize infrastructure over time. >> And humans just can't get their head around it. I mean because you do have to optimize across multiple dimensions as performance, as cost. But then that performance is compute, it's the network. In fact the network's always going to be the bottleneck. So you look at it, even with 5G which is an order magnitude more band width, the network will still lag. You go back to Moore's Law, right? It's a, even though it's extended to 24 months, price performance doubles, so the amount of data potentially can exponentially grow our networks don't keep pace. So that optimization is constantly going to have to be tuned as we get even with increases in network we're going to have to keep balancing that. >> Right, but it's also the business optimization beyond the infrastructure optimization. For instance, if you are running a big power generation field of a bunch of turbines, right, you may want to optimize for maintenance 'cause things are running in some steady state but maybe there's an oil crisis or this or that, suddenly the price rises and you are like, forget the maintenance right now, we've got a revenue opportunity that we want to tweak. >> You just talked about which is in a dynamic industry. How do I real time change the behavior? And more and more policy driven, where the infrastructure is smart enough to react, based on the policy change you made. That's the world we want to get to and we are far away from that right now. >> I mean ultimately I think the Kubernetes controller gets an AI overlay and then operators of the future are tuning the AI engines that optimize it. >> Right, right. And then we run into the whole thing which we talked about many times in this building with Dr. Rumman Chowdhury from Accenture. Then you got the whole ethics overlay on top of the business and the optimization and everything else. That's a whole different conversation for another day. So, before we wrap I just want to give you kind of last thoughts. As you know customers are in all different stages of their journey. Hopefully, most of them are at least off the first square I would imagine on the monopoly board. What does, you know, kind of just top level things that you would tell people that they really need just to keep always at the top as they're starting to make these considerations? Starting to make these investments? Starting to move workloads around that they should always have at the top of their mind? >> For me it's very simple. It's really about focus on the business outcome. Leverage the best resource for the right need. And design architectures that are flexible that give you choice, you're not locked in. And look for strategic partners, whether it's technology partners or services partners that allow you to guide. Because if complexity is too high, the number of choices are too high, you need someone who has the breadth and depth to give you that platform which you can operate on. So we want to be the ubiquitous platform from a software perspective. Accenture wants to be that single partner who can help them guide on the journey. So, I think that would be my ask is start thinking about who are your strategic partners? What is your architecture and the choices you're making that give you the flexibility to evolve. Because this is a dynamic market. Once you make decisions today, may not be the ones you need in six months even. >> And that dynanicism is accelerating. If you look at it, I mean, we've all seen change in the industry, of decades in the industry. But the rate of change now, the pace, things are moving so quickly. >> And we need to respond to competitive or business oriented industry. Or any regulations. You have to be prepared for that. >> Well gentleman, thanks for taking a few minutes and great conversation. Clearly you're in a very good space 'cause it's not getting any less complicated any time soon. >> Well, thank you again. And thank you. >> All right, thanks. >> Thanks. >> Larry and Ajay, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We are top of San Francisco in the Sales Force Tower at the Accenture Innovation Hub. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> Hey, welcome back already, Jeffrey. Here with the Cube, we are high top San Francisco in the Salesforce Tower in the newest center offices. It's really beautiful and is part of that. They have their San Francisco innovation hubs, so it's five floors of maker's labs and three D printing and all kinds of test facilities and best practices Innovation theater and in this studio, which is really fun to be at. So we're talking about hybrid cloud in the development of cloud and multi cloud. And, you know, we're, you know, continuing on this path. Not only your customers on this path, but everyone's kind of on this path is the same kind of evolved and transformed. We're excited. Have a couple experts in the field. We got Larry Soccer. He's the global managing director of Intelligent Cloud Infrastructure Service's growth and strategy at a center. Very good to see you again. Great to be here. And the Jay Patel. He's the senior vice president and general manager, cloud provider, software business unit, being where enemies of the people are nice. Well, so, uh so first off, how you like the digs appear >> beautiful place and the fact we're part of the innovation team. Thank you for that. It's so let's just >> dive into it. So a lot of crazy stuff happening in the market place a lot of conversations about hybrid cloud, multi cloud, different cloud, public cloud movement of Back and forth from Cloud. Just wanted. Get your perspective a day. You guys have been in the Middle East for a while. Where are we in this kind of evolution? It still kind of feeling themselves out. Is it? We're kind of past the first inning, so now things are settling down. How do you kind of you. Evolution is a great >> question, and I think that was a really nice job of defining the two definitions. What's hybrid worse is multi and simply put hybrid. We look at hybrid as when you have consistent infrastructure. It's the same infrastructure, regardless of location. Multi is when you have disparate infrastructure. We're using them in a collective. So just from a level setting perspective, the taxonomy starting to get standardized industry starting to recognize hybrid is a reality. It's not a step in the long journey. It is an operating model that's gonna be exists for a long time, so it's no longer about location. It's a lot harder. You operate in a multi cloud and a hybrid cloud world and together, right extension BM would have a unique opportunity. Also, the technology provider Accenture, as a top leader in helping customers figure out where best to land their workload in this hybrid multicolored world, because workloads are driving decisions right and one of the year in this hybrid medical world for many years to come. But >> do I need another layer of abstraction? Cause I probably have some stuff that's in hybrid. I probably have some stuff in multi, right, because those were probably not much in >> the way we talked a lot about this, and Larry and I were >> chatting as well about this. And the reality is, the reason you choose a specific cloud is for those native different share capability. Abstraction should be just enough so you can make were close portable, really use the caper berry natively as possible right, and by fact, that we now with being where have a native VM we're running on every major hyper scaler, right? And on. Prem gives you that flexibility. You want off not having to abstract away the goodness off the cloud while having a common and consistent infrastructure. What tapping into the innovations that the public cloud brings. So it is a evolution of what we've been doing together from a private cloud perspective to extend that beyond the data center to really make it operating model. That's independent location, right? >> Solarium cures your perspective. When you work with customers, how do you help them frame this? I mean, I always feel so sorry for corporate CEOs. I mean, they got >> complexities on the doors are already going on >> like crazy that GDP are now, I think, right, The California regs. That'll probably go national. They have so many things to be worried about. They got to keep up on the latest technology. What's happening in containers away. I thought it was Dr Knight. Tell me it's kubernetes. I mean, it's really tough. So how >> do you help them? Kind of. It's got a shot with the foundation. >> I mean, you look at cloud, you look at infrastructure more broadly. I mean, it's there to serve the applications, and it's the applications that really drive business value. So I think the starting point has to be application lead. So we start off. We have are intelligent. Engineering guys are platform guys. You really come in and look And do you know an application modernisation strategy? So they'll do an assessment. You know, most of our clients, given their scale and complexity, usually have from 520,000 applications, very large estates, and they got to start to freak out. Okay, what's my current application's? You know, you're a lot of times I use the six R's methodology, and they say, OK, what is it that I I'm gonna retire. This I'm no longer needed no longer is business value, or I'm gonna, you know, replace this with sass. Well, you know, Yeah, if I move it to sales force, for example, or service now mattress. Ah, and then they're gonna start to look at their their workloads and say OK, you know, I don't need to re factor reform at this, you know, re hosted. You know, when one and things obviously be Emily has done a fantastic job is allowing you to re hosted using their softer to find a data center in the hyper scale er's environments >> that we called it just, you know, my great and then modernized. But >> the modern eyes can't be missed. I think that's where a lot of times you see clients kind of getting the trap Hammer's gonna migrate and then figure it out. You need to start tohave a modernisation strategy and then because that's ultimately going to dictate your multi and your hybrid cloud approaches, is how they're zaps evolve and, you know, they know the dispositions of those abs to figure out How do they get replaced? What data sets need to be adjacent to each other? So >> right, so a j you know, we were there when when Pat was with Andy and talking about, you know, Veum, Where on AWS. And then, you know, Sanjay has shown up, but everybody else's conferences a Google cloud talking about you know, Veum. Where? On Google Cloud. I'm sure there was a Microsoft show I probably missed. You guys were probably there to know it. It's kind of interesting, right from the outside looking in You guys are not a public cloud per se. And yet you've come up with this great strategy to give customers the options to adopt being We're in a public hot. And then now we're seeing where even the public cloud providers are saying here, stick this box in your data center and Frank, this little it's like a little piece of our cloud of floating around in your data center. So talk about the evolution of the strategy is kind of what you guys are thinking about because you know, you're cleared in a leadership position, making a lot of interesting acquisitions. How are you guys see this evolving? And how are you placing your bets? >> You know, that has been always consistent about this. Annie. Any strategy, whether it's any cloud, was any device, you know, any workload if you will, or application. And as we started to think about it, right, one of the big things be focused on was meeting the customer where he's out on its journey. Depending on the customer, let me simply be trying to figure out looking at the data center all the way to how the drive in digital transformation effort in a partner like Accenture, who has the breadth and depth and something, the vertical expertise and the insight. That's what customers looking for. Help me figure out in my journey. First tell me where, Matt, Where am I going and how I make that happen? And what we've done in a clever way, in many ways is we've created the market. We've demonstrated that VM where's the omen? Consistent infrastructure that you can bet on and leverage the benefits of the private or public cloud. And I You know, I often say hybrids a two way street. Now, which is you're bringing Maur more hybrid Cloud service is on Prem. And where is he? On Premise now the edge. I was talking to the centering folks and they were saying the mitral edge. So you're starting to see the workloads, And I think you said almost 40 plus percent off future workers that are gonna be in the central cloud. >> Yeah, actually, is an interesting stat out there. 20 years 2020 to 70% of data will be produced and processed outside the cloud. So I mean, the the edges about, you know, as we were on the tipping point of, you know, I ot finally taking off beyond, you know, smart meters. You know, we're gonna see a huge amount of data proliferate out there. So, I mean, the lines between public and private income literary output you look at, you know, Anthony, you know, as your staff for ages. So you know, And that's where you know, I think I am where strategy is coming to fruition >> sometime. It's great, >> you know, when you have a point of view and you stick with it >> against a conventional wisdom, suddenly end up together and then all of a sudden everyone's falling to hurt and you're like, This is great, but I >> hit on the point about the vertical ization. Every one of our client wth e different industries have very different has there and to the meeting that you know the customer, you know, where they're on their journey. I mean, if you talk to a pharmaceutical, you know, geekspeak compliance. Big private cloud started to dip their toes into public. You know, you go to minds and they're being very aggressive public. So >> every manufacturing with EJ boat back in >> the back, coming to it really varies by industry. >> And that's, you know, that's a very interesting here. Like if you look at all the ot environment. So the manufacturing we started see a lot of end of life of environment. So what's that? Next generation, you know, of control system's gonna run on >> interesting on the edge >> because and you've brought of networking a couple times where we've been talking it, you know, and as as, ah, potential gate right when I was still in the gates. But we're seeing Maura where we're at a cool event Churchill Club, when they had Xilinx micron and arm talking about, you know, shifting Maur that compute and store on these edge devices ti to accommodate, which you said, you know, how much of that stuff can you do at the adverse is putting in. But what I think is interesting is how are you going to manage that? There is a whole different level of management complexity when now you've got this different level of you're looting and security times many, many thousands of these devices all over the place. >> You might have heard >> recent announcements from being where around the carbon black acquisition right that combined with our work space one and the pulse I ot well, >> I'm now >> giving you a management framework with It's what people for things or devices and that consistency. Security on the client tied with the network security with NSX all the way to the data center, security were signed. A look at what we call intrinsic security. How do we bake and securing the platform and start solving these end to end and have a park. My rec center helped design these next generation application architectures are distributed by design. Where >> do you put a fence? You're you could put a fence around your data center, >> but your APP is using service now. Another SAS service is so hard to talk to an application boundary in the sea security model around that. It's a very interesting time. >> You hear a lot of you hear a >> lot about a partnership around softer to find data center on networking with Bello and NSX. But we're actually been spending a lot of time with the i o. T. Team and really looking at and a lot of our vision, the lines. I mean, you actually looked that they've been work similarly, agent technology with Leo where you know, ultimately the edge computing for io ti is gonna have to be containerized because you can need multiple middleware stacks supporting different vertical applications, right? We're actually you know what we're working with with one mind where we started off doing video analytics for predictive, you know, maintenance on tires for tractors, which are really expensive. The shovels, It's after we started pushing the data stream up it with a video stream up into azure. But the network became a bottleneck looking into fidelity. So we gotta process there. They're not looking autonomous vehicles which need eight megabits low laden C band with, you know, sitting at the the edge. Those two applications will need to co exist. And you know why we may have as your edge running, you know, in a container down, you know, doing the video analytics. If Caterpillar chooses, you know, Green Grass or Jasper that's going to co exist. So you see how the whole container ization that were started seeing the data center push out there on the other side of the pulse of the management of the edge is gonna be very difficult. I >> need a whole new frontier, absolutely >> moving forward. And with five g and telco. And they're trying to provide evaluated service is So what does that mean from an infrastructure perspective. Right? Right, Right. When do you stay on the five g radio network? Worse is jumping on the back line. And when do you move data? Where's his process? On the edge. Those all business decisions that need to be doing to some framework. >> You guys were going, >> we could go on. Go on, go. But I want to Don't fall upon your Segway from containers because containers were such an important part of this story and an enabler to the story. And, you know, you guys been aggressive. Move with hefty Oh, we've had Craig McCloskey, honor. He was still at Google and Dan great guys, but it's kind of funny, right? Cause three years ago, everyone's going to Dr Khan, right? I was like that were about shows that was hot show. Now doctors kind of faded and and kubernetes has really taken off. Why, for people that aren't familiar with kubernetes, they probably here to cocktail parties. If they live in the Bay Area, why's containers such an important enabler? And what's so special about Coburn? 80 specifically. >> Do you wanna go >> on the way? Don't talk about my products. I mean, if you >> look at the world is getting much more dynamics on the, you know, particularly you start to get more digitally to couple applications you started. You know, we've gone from a world where a virtual machine might have been up for months or years. Toe, You know, obviously you have containers that are much more dynamic, allowed to scale quickly, and then they need to be orchestrated. That's essential. Kubernetes does is just really starts to orchestrate that. And as we get more distributed workloads, you need to coordinate them. You need to be able to scale up as you need it for performance, etcetera. So kubernetes an incredible technology that allows you really to optimize, you know, the placement of that. So just like the virtual machine changed, how we compute containers now gives us a much more flexible portable. You know that, you know you can run on anything infrastructure, any location, you know, closer to the data, et cetera. To do that. And I >> think the bold movie >> made is, you know, we finally, after working with customers and partners like century, we have a very comprehensive strategy. We announced Project Enzo, a philosophy in world and Project tansy really focused on three aspects of containers. How do you build applications, which is pivotal in that mansion? People's driven around. How do we run these arm? A robust enterprise class run time. And what if you could take every V sphere SX out there and make it a container platform? Now we have half a million customers. 70 million be EMS, all of sudden that run time. We're continue enabling with the Project Pacific Soviets. Year seven becomes a commonplace for running containers, and I am so that debate of'em czar containers done gone well, one place or just spin up containers and resource is. And then the more important part is How do I manage this? You said, becoming more of a platform not just an orchestration technology, but a platform for how do I manage applications where I deploy them where it makes most sense, right? Have decoupled. My application needs from the resource is, and Coburn is becoming the platform that allows me to port of Lee. I'm the old job Web logic guy, right? >> So this is like distributed Rabb logic job on steroids, running across clouds. Pretty exciting for a middle where guy This is the next generation and the way you just said, >> And two, that's the enabling infrastructure that will allow it to roll into future things like devices. Because now you've got that connection >> with the fabric, and that's working. Becomes a key part of one of the key >> things, and this is gonna be the hard part is optimization. So how do we optimize across particularly performance, but even costs? >> You're rewiring secure, exact unavailability, >> Right? So still, I think my all time favorite business book is Clayton Christians. An innovator's dilemma. And in one of the most important lessons in that book is What are you optimizing four. And by rule, you can't optimize for everything equally you have to you have to rank order. But what I find really interesting in this conversation in where we're going in the complexity of the throughput, the complexity of the size of the data sets the complexity of what am I optimizing for now? Just begs for applied a I or this is not This is not a people problem to solve. This is this >> is gonna be all right. So you look at >> that, you know, kind of opportunity to now apply A I over the top of this thing opens up tremendous opportunity. >> Standardize infrastructural auditory allows you to >> get more metrics that allows you to build models to optimize infrastructure over time. >> And humans >> just can't get their head around me because you do have to optimize across multiple mentions. His performances cost, but then that performances gets compute. It's the network, I mean. In fact, the network's always gonna be the bottlenecks. You look at it even with five G, which is an order of magnitude, more bandwidth from throughput, the network will still lag. I mean, you go back to Moore's Law, right? It's Ah, even though it's extended to 24 months, price performance doubles. The amount of data potentially can kick in and you know exponentially grow on. Networks don't keep pays, so that optimization is constantly going to be tuned. And as we get even with increases in network, we have to keep balancing that right. >> But it's also the business >> optimization beyond the infrastructure optimization. For instance, if you're running a big power generation field of a bunch of turbines, right, you may wanna optimize for maintenance because things were running at some steady state. But maybe there's oil crisis or this or that. Suddenly the price, right? You're like, forget the maintenance. Right now we've got you know, we >> got a radio controlled you start about other >> than a dynamic industry. How do I really time change the behavior, right? Right. And more and more policy driven. Where the infrastructure smart enough to react based on the policy change you made. >> That's the world we >> want to get to. And we're far away from that, right? >> Yeah. I mean, I think so. Ultimately, I think the Cuban honeys controller gets an A I overlay and the operators of the future of tuning the Aye aye engines that optimizing, >> right? Right. And then we run into the whole thing, which we've talked about many times in this building with Dr Room, A child re from a center. Then you got the whole ethics overlay on top of the thing. That's a whole different conversation from their day. So before we wrap kind of just want to give you kind of last thoughts. Um, as you know, customers Aaron, all different stages of their journey. Hopefully, most of them are at least at least off the first square, I would imagine on the monopoly board What does you know, kind of just top level things that you would tell people that they really need just to keep always at the top is they're starting to make these considerations, starting to make these investments starting to move workloads around that they should always have kind of top >> of mind. For me, it's very simple. It's really about focused on the business outcome. Leverage the best resource for the right need and design. Architectures are flexible that give you a choice. You're not locked in and look for strategic partners with this technology partners or service's partners that alive you to guide because the complexities too high the number of choices that too high. You need someone with the breath in depth to give you that platform in which you can operate on. So we want to be the digital kind of the ubiquitous platform. From a software perspective, Neck Centuries wants to be that single partner who can help them guide on the journey. So I think that would be my ask. It's not thinking about who are your strategic partners. What is your architecture and the choices you're making that gave you that flexibility to evolve. Because this is a dynamic market. What should make decisions today? I mean, I'll be the one you need >> six months even. Yeah. And And it's And that that dynamic that dynamics is, um is accelerating if you look at it. I mean, we've all seen change in the industry of decades in the industry, but the rate of change now the pace, you know, things are moving so quickly. >> I mean, little >> respond competitive or business or in our industry regulations, right. You have to be prepared for >> Yeah. Well, gentlemen, thanks for taking a few minutes and ah, great conversation. Clearly, you're in a very good space because it's not getting any less complicated in >> Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thanks, Larry. Ajay, I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. >> We are top of San Francisco in the Salesforce Tower at the center Innovation hub. Thanks for watching. We'll see next time. Quick

>> Announcer: Live, from San Francisco celebrating 10 years of high-tech coverage it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2019. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, this is theCUBE two stages, three days of coverage, our tenth year here at the VMworld show. I'm Stu Miniman and my co-host for this segment is Bobby Allan. And welcome back, two of our CUBE alumni. >> How are you? >> As I said back in 2010 we didn't even know what a CUBE alumni was. People were trying to figure out what we're doing but now we have thousands of them and both of these gentlemen have been on the program, a few times. >> Thanks for having us back. >> You're welcome. So, first, over we have Ajay Patel, who I believe was doing another filming evening with our crew-- >> Absolutely >> Earlier today. >> The Accenture Innovation Center. >> Ah, excellent. Beautiful building Accenture has here in San Francisco. >> Ajay: Beautiful (mumbles) >> One of the other benefits of being back in San Francisco is we brought in people and it's really easy to get in and out and do other things in the Valley. But Ajay is the senior vice president and general manager of the cloud provider software business unit inside VMware. And one of his partners is Rackspace. We have Peter FitzGibbon who is the vice president of Product Alliances, with for mentioned Rackspace. >> Yeah, super to be back in San Francisco. It's a great change from Vegas. >> Yeah, you know, there is some debate in the community of course it's a little more expensive here in San Francisco and there are other logistic challenges. We're excited to be back here and yeah, really excited to be talking with both of you. Peter, let's start, you know Rackspace has had a long, long partnership with VMware. When I remember back to like VMware Environments Hosted it's like, Rackspace was the one with the lion's share in that market. And, you know, Rackspace has gone through a lot of changes in the last 10 years that we've been doing this coverage. When I think about multi cloud, all of these environments you've got a nice perspective on this and lots of customers you've worked with. So, give us the update on what you're hearing from customers and your relationship with VMware. >> Yeah, so, 20-year history with VMware that we're very proud of. I would say it's almost being re-birthed in the last two years though. Two years ago, we were one of the first VMware Cloud Verified partners. We launched our VMware Cloud VMware Cloud Foundation Private Cloud. We added that about six months later in customer data centers. We're now one of the major partners of VMware Cloud AWS >> Ajay: VMware Cloud AWS yep. >> And that's one of the areas that we're continuing to expand upon. We announced some new services this week, specifically around VMware Cloud AWS or support of HDX, both for migrations for ongoing support as well as a number of, what we call Rackspace service blocks. Which are additional manage services that we are applying, specifically for VMware Cloud and AWS. So, exciting times at Rackspace and VMware continues to be a look, a major part of our portfolio. >> Ajay: And thank you for all the support, Peter. >> Yeah, so Ajay, bring us up to speed of what's happening in your space you know, a lot of attention gets paid, you know Every time, you know, I saw Sanjay Poon, up on stage at the Goolge clould event, and of course the AWS partnership has been one of the biggest stories in all of tech, for the last couple of years. And that's been extending to, you know first it was like, wait, you know Rackspace has data centers and many of your other partners have data centers, but how did these all, play together and how does the VMware software pull them all together. >> So Stu, I think, you and I have been talking about this world of hybrid multi and we've been arguing, whether it's just a transitionary stage, or here to stay. Hopefully that debate's over, right? Hybrid's a new reality, multi cloud's a new reality and we talk about these hyper scales but you know, Rackspace and many of my VCP partners they've been longstanding in this journey with us. I don't know if you caught Pat's keynote? We demonstrated, that we have over 10 000 data centers through our VCPP network and Rackspace being one of our top 10 partners. So you start, to start seeing this mix of VMware everywhere. Whether it's trough our service provider cloud the customer manage cloud or even a hyper scale VMware cloud. You now have the ubiquitous VMware infrastructure to play with. >> At some point it's just cloud. (chattering) >> That is a great point, when I talk to customers most of them, they have a cloud strategy it's usually not a hybrid or a multi or all these things. Here's the nuance I want to, you know, ask for a second then I definitely want Bobby to jump in with what he's been talking to customers about. You know, hybrid cloud is a reality because customers have their own data centers and they have public cloud. The ideal of multi cloud, customers have multiple clouds, but, you know, one of the definitions I put out there is, multi cloud exists when the multi cloud solution is more valuable than the sum of the pieces. And I'm not sure that we're quite there yet. I think we're starting to move down that path. But what are you both seeing? And does that resonate with what you see today? >> Yeah like, all of our customers have workloads in multiple locations and trying to provide the assessments of where to put the right workloads at the right time is one of the key values that we hold dear. And before we ever talk about where we're going to but a workload we assess whether, what our clients environments is and determine, maybe this is an AWS workload maybe this is a WMS workload maybe this workload really belongs in the data center for, due to laws of the lands laws of gravity and physics. >> And I think, what's happening, really is any application, typically choosing a platform or the cloud service that's driving the decision. Collectively what ends up happening because of that, you are in multiple clouds. So, I think what's it's a result of the reality that applications are driving location and platform choices and the way to drive consistency is trying to pick a few common things whether it's kubernetes as a platform or VMware, right? Those are a way to, kind of, unify these desperate choices that are made individually. That are collectively making each of our customers multi cloud, right? >> Ajay, I want to piggyback on that because you talked about the applications driving a lot of the choices, when applications teams in my experience are, kind of, making the choices they don't care about a centralized strategy and obviously, this very powerful partnership can support multiple places and ways around your workloads. How do you lead the witness, a little bit towards simplification and just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. >> Yes, so I think what's happening from our perspective is depending on which side of the IT house you're at if you're part of the core IT that's running and maintaining mission critical systems you're really looking for something that's reliable, performance scalable, secure. And you, maybe, looking at a hardware refresher looking at your data center strategy and you're looking to migrate that workload. You're not really looking to re-change the app just because it's cool. >> Bobby: Right. >> If you're part of digital transformation effort you're looking to say, okay how do I get something out there quickly? >> Bobby: Right. >> How do I integrate on the average my data and application assets while leveraging cloud services? >> Bobby: Right. So, we're seeing this tension in some ways where the, kind of, net new is really pushing the envelope of cloud with self service elasticity, new capability while as the old guard is like I got to keep my running business, running keep it secure. And how do you bridge these two worlds and bring them together? We call it DevOps and, you know, ITA and the traditional, kind of new developer. Reality is, you're trying to bring the two worlds on a common platform. Whether it's VM's or containers and so the exciting part for us is, how do we unify? How do we deliver this experience and give them the choice, where it makes more sense. And blur the lines between public and private. Those are just locations and makes more sense for your customer or your application that you can drive. >> Bobby: Right, excellent. >> We find ourselves in those conversations, all the time trying to bridge two sides of the equation at a customer and trying to get them together on a uniformed strategy and weighing the pros and cons of different locations or different workloads. So, it's not easy, it's not a challenge of course. >> Peter, I'd love you to bring us inside some of those VMware on AWS customers because, you know, some of the first customers I talked to, it was, you know, I'm a VMware shop and there's a part of your group that's like oh my gosh, I can't change and this was a driver saying hey, you don't need to, we can bring you along. But, the value, once again needs to be Oh hey, I need to do some innovative things I want to be able to access some of those cool amazing services that, you know everybody is providing on a daily basis. So, you know, are you seeing that progression are there any interesting use cases that are coming out? >> Progression is the word, we could call it progressive transformation inside Rackspace. Like, you're a VMware customer let's bring you ion the journey towards public cloud. And let's help you leverage those address services. So, we find ourselves in a great position where a very large number of engineers, that support our native AWS workloads, we've brought those two groups together from our VMware expertise and address expertise. So when a customer lands on a VMware address I consider it a failure, if they haven't transformed part of the application in three months. If they're not really consuming those native AWS services. And that's what we really try inject. It's like, get our AWS engineers looking at those workloads let's start consuming those native services and that's what we're finding really exciting about how customers are starting to adopt and starting to plug and play into some of those services. >> Oh I look at it, as you know, you'll see a team Sanjay called it M&MS, migrate and modernize but a part of the migrate is often modernize your infrastructure first by putting on a modern cloud platform. And then modernize your application using cloud services. How it says, it's M-M and M, right, to follow through because it's not just about lifting and shifting keeping the old crap as it is. You got to really start to look at how do you drive innovation drive your Cube to a better place. So that you can operate it more affectively and then modernize for application results. And your service blocks, are really catered to helping that customers. So you can talk a little bit about how they're building the services that compliment our offer. >> Yeah, so our service blocks is... In the past, we offered them one big block manage service to a customer. We realized, let's decompose that and offer the customer what they need at a specific point in time. So we, think about Lego blocks, where at some point you may need, just some support or at some point you might need some architectural services and design and other times you might say cost optimization. That sort of stuff. So over time, we're adding on these Lego blocks if you will, to add a customer, to give them what they need at the point they need it, and not more. So, it's an exciting concept that every month, we're adding more services. We launched a Rackspace manage security service block today specifically for VMware cloud. So, we continue to add these and provide incremental value. >> I want to ask you a little bit of a controversial question. There's a saying, pioneers take the arrows but settlers take the land. >> Right >> So, if I'm a technology leader how do I embrace all this newness without getting shot, partnering with your firms. >> So, you know, we always say lock-ins bad but reality is, we always choose to reject technology platforms. And if you're a VMware customer I hate to say it, you're running on VMware infrastructure you have VMware ecosystem, you have VMware run books you have VMware partners, managing your on-prem assets what if I could you a path forward on any cloud of your choice without having to change any of your day-tot-day operation while leveraging the innovation future. What is the safest path for you, Mr Customer? And so, in this world, you can think of us being laggard in some sense. Because we're not pushing them to a single destination. We're giving them that choice, leveraging the strength. I think the innovative part that we've done today has really brought containers and VM'S in a single solution. We talked about containers killing VM'S two years ago, right? You know, VMware was getting trouble with docker VMware was going to be trouble with Openstack. Where are those two companies today and where is VMware? It's about simplifying for the customer a common solution. And we're taking those choices away and making this easy. Giving partners who can help them on their journey. So, I would say we're the safer choice. >> Okay >> That will be my response. >> Peter, we're not going to ask you about Openstack. (Giggles) >> I'm really back to VMware, it's working progress. (Giggles) >> Interesting point, the settlers right? At this point VMSware and AWS is two years old I think that first year, what was definitely some pioneers our there. But now I think we're really in there where the settlers are coming on and we're seeing large-scale adoption in the platform and now that VMware is offering more and more services, natively we can add more those managed services and help those customers really transform and not worry about the underlying IS that's rock-solid at this point. >> Peter, I would like you to get into it a little bit, kind of, the containerization and the kubernetes, you know, Docker, obviously a lot of hype, but containerization that's hugely important, you know a lot of the keynote this morning was talking about cloud native. I talked to lots of customers, you know there's some that, yes, they will want the VMware journey but many of them say, well, If I'm going to cloud I can just use containers. Why would I have the overhead of VM's? when cloud founders was originally created it was not for that type of environment. So where does that fit into, you know your world containers? >> Yeah, we actually launched some more services on that today as well, some more professional services and manage services, so safely around advanced kubernetes support, across all our platforms so this isn't just a VMware announcement this is on AWS, Microsoft, Badger and Google. So, another exciting progression, or hybrid could story and making investments in those resources to deliver kubernetes. We also launched a cloud native service block today, as well, that is really giving customers access to deep engineering skills and giving them cloud reliability engineers that can help them transform their workloads and get them ready for the cloud. >> I think, for us, if you... Project (mumbles) sorry tan zoo as a solution, and project pacific. Our two marquee announcements we made this week and if you look at the way we're focusing on the bull run manage aspects of the full life cycle and our active participation in the kubernetes community we're starting the beginnings of what I felt, like Java in 2000 when I was at BA, right? Where Weblogic and Java was the runtime for rolling and building new apps. Kubernetes and containers are the new runtime for building distributed apps across Cal platforms. And we're in this early journey and we are uniquely in opposition with the combination of pivotal for build. With project Pacific we're bringing containers into V&V-sphere, so VM's and containers become first class. Trough your point, we demonstrated eight percent performance improvement over bare metal on a V-sphere container based solution. Starting to engineer, based on a key scheduling work that we do in the kernel and in the hypervisor we're driving that deep into the kubernetes platform into the core platform itself. And then manage is going to be the new interesting bit. What is that control panel that everyone is going to fight over? And the manage services partner can help them choose. So, I think the battleground is more and more going to manage I think we secured our base with the runtime. And the bill will be about choice. (Mumbles) >> And Tan zoo is music to our ears we can now, again, focus on what's the additional manage services and service-- >> How do you help customers build apps? And change the engineering culture is what you provide. We just give you the runtime across any of these clouds. >> We want to help everyone, transform applications also transform the culture and how they do their business all that rapport-- >> Engineering transformation is a big one. Sajay transformation we talked about, internally for us VMware, same with our customers. You got to change the mindset of how you build the applications. In this container service based architecture >> Agree, agree >> What else is keeping folks up at night? That you talk to? Love to know that, just hot tail. >> Nothing keeps me up at night it's an exciting world we live in so loaded question, what excites me? What excites me is the progression, that VMware is making and the announcement Lydon video and GPU access link I think, early next year. I think that can be another wave of VMC adoptions. So, not keep me up at night but keep me interesting and excited. >> I think to that point I can build on what Pat said about tech for good, I mean we have a joined customer feeding America, right? We're now taking technology and making it available so that, you know, the 60 000 plus distribution centers they have, are up all the time. They're not even worried about infrastructure. They can focus on feeding the cause which is, I think 47 million people being fed. It's scary, right? >> Well, we want to bring it back to the organization of the discussion, you said you're helping customers with because we are worried you know, about how racking, stacking, configuring how doing all of those things, you know how do you help them? I talked to a number of customers at this show and they said look, my roles in my organization is still hardware to find And it's tough to move into a software role but if I want to get into the6 tech for good I need to be able to uplift my skills uplift my organizations, yeah. >> It's difficult, right? Organizational changes differ for every company but as part of the digital transformation there is also organizational transformation so we're having customers think about what is the progression form a VMware administrator to a DevOps-- >> Or cloud, I bet. (Giggles) >> It's not easy, it's your short answer on that. >> I think for us, is really starting to drive the cultural chance providing the tools and bring the self service in where they can be a coach, right? Be the trailblazer, who can come in and help change your organization. Teach them how to do it right. Not everyone will get there, hopefully bulk of the organization can shift right. >> Peter, I want to give you the final word you know, your partners and customers to understand. Take aways from VMware 2019. >> Yeah, it's great to be here, as usual thanks for having us. I think, Tan Zoo is really exciting. The progression that we're making with adding service blocks on top of VMware and AWS and or other hybrid cloud announcements. So, great to be here, but the Tan Zoo is kind of the story of the show. >> For me, it's a VMware is here to stay. We want to be, be have been, your strategic partner for the last decade. We're here to stay for the next decade. We're going to help you solve these hard complex problems and give you the choice you need. Across a broader ecosystem of partners and solutions. so, very excited to be here and to deliver that value. >> And Peter, thank you so much for joining us again, Bobby Allen, thank you for co-hosting. I'm Stu Miniman and as always thank you for watching theCUBE.

>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Hello and welcome back to the Cubes. Live coverage here and savor still were alive for IBM. Think twenty nineteen. The Cubes Exclusive contract. Jon for a stimulant in our next two guests of the Cloud gurus and IBM and VM Where A. J. Patel senior vice president general manager Cloud Providers Software Business Unit. Good to see you again. Baron. Scram A general manager. IBM Cloud Guys. Thanks for Spend the time. Get to the cloud gurus. Get it? They're having What's going on? Having privilege. Osti Cloud's been around. We've seen the public Cloud Momentum hybrid Certainly been around for a while. Multi clouds of big conversation. People are having role of data that is super important. Aye, aye, anywhere you guys, an IBM have announced because I've been on this. I'm on >> a journey or a >> library for awhile. On premise. It was on VM, where all the good stuff's happening. This the customers customers want this talk about the relationship you guys have with IBM. >> You know, the broad of'em were IBM relationship over nine, ten years old. I had the privilege of being part of the cloud the last couple years. The momentum is amazing. Over seventeen hundred plus customers and the Enterprise customers, not your you know, one node trial customer. These are really mission critical enterprise customers using this at that scale, and the number one thing we hear from customers is make it easy for me to leverage Plowed right, operate in the world when I'm using my own prim and my public cloud assets make it seamless, and this is really what we've talked about a lot, right? How do we provide that ubiquitous digital platform for them to operate in this hybrid world? And we're privileged to have IBM Of the great partner in this journey >> are some of the IBM cloud, Ginny Rometty said on CNBC this morning. We saw the interview with my friend John Ford over there. Aye, aye. Anywhere means going run on any cloud. Watson with containers. That's cloud DNA. Sitting the cloud with good Burnett ease and containers is changing the game. Now you can run a lot of things everywhere. This's what customers want. End to end from on. Premise to wherever. How has that changed the IBM cloud posture? Its products? You share a little bit of that. >> You absolutely so look I mean, people have their data in different places, and as you know, it's a really expensive to move stuff around. You gotta make sure it's safe, etcetera, So we want to take our applications and run them against the data wherever they are right? And when you think about today's landscape in the cloud industry, I think it's a perfect storm, a good, perfect storm and that containers and Kubernetes, you know, everyone's rallying around at the ecosystem that consumers, the providers. And it just makes us easy for us to take that capability and really make it available on multicloud. And that's what we're doing. >> to talk about your joint customers. Because the BM where has a lot of operators running, running virtually change? For a long time, you guys have been big supporters of that and open source that really grew that whole generation that was seeing with cloud talk about your customers, your mo mentum, Howyou, guys air, just ballpark. How many customers you guys have together? And what if some of the things that they're doing >> all right? So I know this is a really interesting story. I was actually away from IBM for just over two years. But one of the last things I did when I was an IBM the first time around was actually start this Veum where partnership and seated the team that did it. So coming back, it's really interesting to see the uptake it's had, You know, we've got, like, seven hundred customers together over seventeen hundred customers. Together, we've moved tens of thousands of'em workloads, and as I just said, we've done it in a mission. Critical fashion across multiple zones across multiple regions. On now, you know, we want to take it to the next level. We want to make sure that these people that have moved their basic infrastructure and the mission critical infrastructure across the public cloud can extend those applications by leveraging the cloud near application that we have on our cloud. Plus, we want to make it possible for them to move their workloads to other parts of the IBM ecosystem in terms of our capabilities. >> Any one of the things we found was the notion of modernizer infrastructure, first lift and then transform. He's starting to materialize, and we used to talk about this has really the way the best way to use, cowed or use hybrid cloud was start by just uplifting your infrastructure and whether it's west back, you ask for some customers. I respect a great example. I think that we're talking about it in the Parisian. I joined presentation tomorrow or you look at, you know, Kaiser, who's going to be on stage tomorrow? We're seeing industries across the board are saying, You know, I have a lot of complexity sitting on aging hardware, older versions of infrastructure software. How do I modernize A platform first lifted, shifted to leverage a cloud. And then I could transform my application using more and more portable service that'S covering decides to provide a kind of infrastructure portability. But what about my data, Right. What about if I could run my application with the data? So I think we're starting to see the securing of the use of cloud based on workloads and averaging that's that's >> Yeah, a J. What wonder if we could dig a little love level deeper on that? Because, you know, I think backto, you know, fifteen years or so ago, it was bm where allowed me to not have to worry about my infrastructure. My, you know OS in my you know, server that I was running on might be going end of life. Well, let me shove it in a V M. And then I couldn't stand the life, and then I can manage how that happens. Course. The critique I would have is maybe it's time to update that that application anyway, so I like the message that you're saying about Okay, let me get a to a process where I'm a little bit freer of where, and then I can do the hard work of updating that data. Updating that application, you know, help us understand. >> It's no longer about just unlocking the compute right, which was worth trying the server. It's What about my network we talked about earlier? Do I need a suffered If our network well, the reality is, everything is going programmable. If you want a program of infrastructure, it's compute network storage all software defined. So the building block for us is a suffer to find data center running on the infrastructure that IBM pride sixty plus data centers bare metal at Scholastic and then leering that with IBM cloud private, whether it's hosted or on premise, fear gives you that full stack that nirvana, the people talk about supportable stack going, talk about >> right and adding to what he said, right? You said, You know, it's not about just moving your old stuff to the to the cloud. Absolutely. So as I said in one of the earlier conversations that we have, we had is we have a whole wealth of new services, whether it's Blockchain R. I o. T or the that used. You spoke about leveraging those capabilities to further extend your app and give it a new lease of life to provide new insights is what it's all about. >> What? Well, that that that's great, because it's one thing to just say, Okay, I get it there. Can I get better utilization? Is that change my pricing? But it's the services, and that's kind of the promise of the cloud is, you know, if I built something in my environment, that's great and I can update and I can get updates. But if I put it in your environment, you can help manage some of those things as well as I should have access to all of these services. IBM's got a broad ecosystem can you give us? You know what are some of the low hanging fruit is to people when they get there, that they're unlocking data that they're using things like a I What? What What are some of the most prevalent services that people are adding when they go to the IBM clouds? >> So when you look at people who first moved their work list of the cloud, typically they tend to dip their toe in the water. They take what's running on Prem. They used the IRS capabilities in the cloud and start to move it there. But the real innovation really starts to happen further up the stock, so to speak. The platform is a service, things like a II OT blocked and all the things that I mentioned, eso es very natural. Next movement is to start to modernize those applications and add to it. Capability is that it could never have before because, you know it was built in a monolith and it was on prim, and it was kind of stuck there. So now the composition that the cloud gives you with all of these rich services where innovation happens first, that is the real benefit to our customers. >> Every she said, you took a little hiatus from IBM and went out outside IBM. Where did you go and what did you learn? What was that? Goldman Jack. JP Morgan, Where were you? >> So it was a large bank. You know, I'm not not allowed to say the name of the bank. >> One of those two. It >> was a large bank on, and it wasn't the U S. So that narrows down the field. Some >> What is it like to go outside? They'll come inside. U C Davis for cutting edge bank. Now you got IBM Cloud. You feel good about where things are. >> Yeah. You know, if you look at what a lot of these banks are trying to do, they start to attack the cloud journey saying we're going to take everything that ran in the bank for years and years and years. And we're going to, you know, make them micro services and put them all on public cloud. And that's when you really hit the eighty twenty percent problem because you've got a large monolith that don't lend themselves to be re factored and moved out. Tio, eh, Public cloud. So you know again, Enter communities and containers, etcetera. These allow you a way to modernize your applications where you can either deploy those containerized You know, piers you go type models on prim or on public. And if you have a rich enough set of services both on Prem in on the public loud, you can pretty much decide how much of it runs on Trevor's is becoming much more clouds >> moment choice. So really, it's finding deployment. So basically, what you're saying is that we get this right. I want to get your reaction. This You don't have to kill the old to bring in the new containers and Cooper netease and now service measures around the corner. You can bring in new work clothes, take advantage of the cutting edge technology and manage your life cycle of the work loads on the old side or it just can play along. I >> think what we're finding is, you know, we moved from hybrid being a destination to an operating model, and it's no longer about doing this at scale like my multi clark. Any given applications tied to a cloud or destination? It's a late binding decision, but as an aggregate. I may be amusing multiple close, right. So that more model we're moving to is really about a loving developer. Super your workload centric and services centric to see Where do I want to run in Africa? >> Okay, what one of the challenges with multi cloud is their skill sets. I need to worry about it. It can be complex. I want to touch on three points and love to get both your viewpoints, networking, security and management. How do we help tackle that? Make that simple >> right off customers? >> Yeah, sure. So you know, I think when you think about clouds, public clouds especially it's beyond your data center and the mindset out there as if it's beyond my data center. It can be safe. But when you start to build those constructs in the modern era, you really do take care of a lot of things that perhaps you're on Prem pieces that not take into consideration when they were built like many decades ago. Right? So with the IBM public Cloud, for example, you know, security's at the heart of it. We have a leadership position. There was one of the things that we've announced is people keep protect for not only Veum, where workload visa and we sphere etcetera, but also for other applications making use off our public cloud services. Then, when you talk about our Z, you know we have a hardware as security model, which is fifty one forty, level two or dash to level four, which nobody else in the industry has. So when you put your key in there on ly, the customer can take it out, not him. Azaz clouds of his providers can touch it. It will basically disintegrate, you know, sort of speak >> H ey. Talk about VM wears customer base inside the IBM ecosystem. What's new? What should they pay attention to? As you guys continue the momentum. >> So I think if you look at the last two years, it's been around what we call these larger enterprise. Dedicated clouds. Exciting thing in the horizon is we're adding a multi tenant IRS on top of this BM, we're dedicated. So being able to provide that Brett off access thing with dedicated multi tenant public out I, as fully programmable, allows us to go downmarket. So expect the customer kind of go up being able to consume it on a pay as you go basis leveraging kind of multi tenant with dedicated, but it's highly secure or for depth test. So are the use cases kind of joke. We're going to see a much larger sort of use cases that I'm most excited about >> is the bottom line. Bottom line me. I'm the customer. Bottom line me. What's in it for me? What I got >> for the customers with a safest choice, right? It's the mission critical secure cloud. You can now run the same application on Prem in a dedicated environment in public, Claude on IBM or in a multi tenant >> world. And on the Klaxon match on the cloud sign. I could take advantage of all the things you have and take advantage of that. Watson A. I think that Rob Thomas has been talking about Oh yeah, >> absolutely. And again. You know the way that we built I c P forty, which is IBM plowed private for data. You know, it's all containerized. It's orchestrated by Coop, so you can not only build it. You can either run it on crime. You can run it on our public loud or you can run it on other people's public clouds as well >> nourished for customers and for people. They're looking at IBM Cloud and re evaluating you guys now again saying Or for the first time, what should they look at? Cloud private? What key thing would you point someone to look at, IBM? They were going to inspect your cloud offering >> so again, and it's back to my story in the bank. Right? It's, uh you can't do everything in the public cloud, right? There are just certain things that need to remain on creme On. We'll be so for the foreseeable future. So when you take a look at our hybrid story, the fact that it is has a consistent based on which it is built on. It is a industry standard open source base. You know, you build your application to suit the needs of an application, right? Is it low lately? See, Put it on. Crim. You need some cloud Native services. Put it on the public cloud. Do you need to be near your data that lives on somebody else's cloud? Go put it on their cloud. Right. So it really is not a one. Size fits all its whatever your business >> customer where he is, right? That's often >> the way flexibility, choice, flexibility. Enjoy the store for all things cloud. >> Yeah, last thing I want to ask is where to developers fit in tow this joint Solucion >> es O. So I think the biggest thing is that's trying to change for us is making these services available in a portable manner. When do I couldn't lock into the public cloud service with particular data and unlocking that from the infrastructures will be a key trend. So for us, it's about staying true to Coburn eddies and upstream with the distribution. So it's portable for wanting more and more services and making it easy for them to access a catalogue of services on a bagel manner but then making operation a viable. So then you're deployed. You can support the day two operations that are needed. So it's a full life cycle with developers not having to worry about the heavy burden of running an operating. What >> exactly? You know, it's all about the developers. As you well know in the cloud world, the developer is the operator. So as long as you can give him or her, the right set of tools to do C. I C. Dev ops on DH get things out there in a consistent fashion, whether it is on a tram or a public cloud. I think it's a win for all. >> That's exactly the trend We're seeing operations moving to more developers and more big time operational scale questions where your programming, the infrastructure. Absolutely. Developers. You don't want to deal with it >> and making it work. Listen tricks. So you know when to deploy. What workload? Having full control. That's part of the deployment >> exam. Alright, final question. I know we got a break. We're in tight on time. Final point share perspective of what's what's important here happening. And IBM. Think twenty nineteen people who didn't make it here in San Francisco are watching. You have to top cloud executives on VM wear and IBM here as biased towards cloud, of course. But you know, if you're watching, what's the most important story happening this week? What's what's going on with IBM? Think Why is this conference this week important? >> I think for us, it's basically saying We're here to meet you where you are, regardless, where you on your customer journey. It's all about choice. It's no longer only about public Cloud, and you now have a lot of capably of your finger trips to take your legacy workloads or your neck, new workplace or any app anywhere we can help you on that journey. That would be the case with >> you, and I wouldn't go that right, said it slightly differently. You know, a lot of the public service of public cloud service providers kind of bring you over to their public loud, and then you're kind of stuck over there and customers don't like that. I mean, you look at the statistics for everybody has at least two or more public clouds. They're worried about the connective ity, the interoperability, the security costs, the cost, the skills to manage all of it. And I think we have the perfect solution of solutions that really start Teo. Speak to that problem. >> So the world's getting more complex as more functionalities here, Software's gonna distract it away. Developers need clean environment to work in programmable infrastructure. >> And you know where an IBM Safe Choice, choice, choice. >> We have to go on top to cloud executives here. Inside the cue from IBM of'em were bringing all the coverage. Was the Cube here in the lobby of Mosconi North on Howard Street in San Francisco for IBM? Think twenty. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. Thank you. Thank you.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> And welcome back once again here, to Hall D in the Sands Expo. We're at AWS re:Invent for the third day of our three days of coverage here on theCUBE, of this fantastic show. Justin Warren, John Walls. We're now joined by Prashanth Chandrasekar, who is the SVP and GM of managed public cloud at Rackspace. Prashanth, good to see you this morning. >> Absolutely, thank you for having me. >> You bet, and Ajay Patel who is the SVP and GM of cloud provider services at VMware. Good morning, to you as well >> Glad to be here, good morning. >> Alright, first off, let's just talk about Rackspace, a little bit, if we can Prashanth. You're kind of going through this metamorphosis, right? This transformation of sorts. So kind of get us up to speed a little bit about your journey, about where you've been and where you're going. >> Yeah absolutely, I'd love to. I think Rackspace has been been on a phenomenal journey over the past 20 years. This is our 20th year anniversary as a company. So obviously we've been know historically for our managed hosting DNA and we came from that, a long time ago. But over the years, we very much are very, very focused on customers, just like Amazon is and VMware is and we really thought about, how do we make sure that we're at where our customers want to go. And so we evolved effectively to support the leading technologies in either the public cloud space, like an Amazon, Microsoft Azure, Google, Alibaba or in the private cloud space with VMware and even our own OpenStack Private Cloud deployments, along with our traditional managed hosting business. So over the years, and also with a very, very phenomenal new owner in Apollo, we've been transforming as a company that's truly a next generation IT services company, looking to take enterprises into the future, at their pace by the way, meeting them where they are and really making sure that we bring to bare, really, best of read services, cloud services, to really kind of manage their transition into the cloud and to make the most of that investment. >> Yeah, use that carrot approach, right? Not the-- >> That's right, that's right. >> Bring them along gently which many people need. Alright, so each of you has your expertise. I'm talking about the companies here. But now this partnership, this synergy that you have, it's kind of like peanut butter and chocolate in a way, right? Great combination! Everybody's going to love it! Talk about that partnership and how it's come together and how that's playing out right now. >> Yeah-- >> So from a philosophy perspective, we're both goal aligned, right? We're starting to see this world being a multi-cloud world and more importantly, it's all about the customer on their journey. They're going to have existing assets, existing data centers, for a long time. They're going to need support in terms of the legacy applications but also they replatform, rehost, and modernize the application. And they need a strategic partner, so Rackspace sees the same way. Starting to provide that set of choice and help the customer on their journey, at their own pace, enabled by a common technology platform. And so us as a company, we've also transformed ourself from we're going to be a vSphere-only company, to starting to embrace public clouds. Whether it's VMware cloud on AWS or our recent CloudHealth acquisition, which allows us to start managing native public cloud. So in this journey, we're seeing ourself as peanut butter and chocolate, as you said, working together, hand-in-hand for the benefit of our customers. >> Yeah, I really love that analogy and thank you for it, because in some ways, VMware and Rackspace, are very much, our philosophies are exactly the same in terms of where the customer journey is, but we approach the problem with two different angles. One, we come from it from a technology-services angle, 'cause we're a service company at heart, right? We're fanatical experience and we're known for that, and VMware is obviously a phenomenal, technology platform company. But we both believe in a multi-cloud and a hyper-cloud world where we see that, hey, the journey to the cloud is a very, very, long-standing one. We're in the early innings of this, where customer workloads are actually moving and this is, you can talk about the projections, you're literally probably over a trillion dollars spent over the next decade or so that's going to move >> in the cloud, exactly. >> with this very form factor, so it's a really exciting time and we're really, really aligned with our partners with VMware and of course AWS and the other public cloud partners. >> Yeah so, you mentioned that we are at the beginning. This is just the start of how things are working, So with customers who are looking at this transformation journey and trying to make this decision about, what do I keep onsite, what do I transform, what do I re-platform, what do I just completely replace with something new and let the old one die. How do you help customers make those decisions? >> Yes, absolutely, so this is the heart of what Rackspace is doing for our customers today, right? We are very much a company that's basically taking a very unbiased approach upfront. We're taking about literally, thinking about the planning stage and assessing their workloads, going through an application assessment and doing all the work that's required to understand, you know what, which workloads need to go on each of the public clouds? Which one runs well on Amazon? Which ones actually should be better leveraged on a VMware on AWS sort of scenario and so on, right? So there's a very deep assessment that's done upfront and then we go through the process of architecting and deploying, based on best practices that we've gained from, by the way, thousands of these customers that we've actually moved and then actually managing and operating in these environments, which we've been talking about at Rackspace, that's our DNA, and optimizing those environments, for cost and the greatest and latest of features that any of these providers provide. So that's the journey and the way we do that is, using a true next-generation cloud services set of capabilities which we announced a couple weeks ago in a press release and that includes something with a notion of service blocks, as we call at Rackspace, service blocks where you're literally able to mix and match all the things that I just mentioned along the journey, dependent on where the customer is on their journey. So we could say, let's focus just on architecting, deploying and migrating apps and that's it. That's what the enterprise wants, because they want to enable an internal, focused motion to manage these, and they want to skill up their internal people to do that. Or you might encounter a company that actually wants us to actually manage the whole thing, and that's fine too. And then maybe, by the way, nine months into their experience that they realize that or later down the line, they want us to help 'em with cost optimization or Kubernetes expertise to actually move into the container world. So that whole curve and the transitioning through that process, is our job to make sure, meet the customer where they are and make sure we deliver value very specifically at that point in time, for them, and not be, not put customers into some long-term, monolithic sort of contract. So really being agile around us. >> You know it's funny, it's very interesting, because as you see the complexity has only gone up. It hasn't gone down. That's when you talk about cloud benefits, the amount of services being launched, the complexity of all the different technologies. Rackspace is uniquely set up, they're going to have their VMware expertise and the AWS certified partners, that we can start to bring the value together. So we're excited about kind of mixing and matching and kind of this modular set of services and capability, that you can bring to bare for the customers. So I think, it actually puts us in a unique position in some ways, right? To be that trusted partner as we move on this journey. >> And to put some numbers around that, very specifically, that Ajay said, we have over a thousand, no, eleven hundred Amazon certified certifications at Rackspace. We have probably a very similar number of VMware, right? Over a thousand VMware people that actually service customers and that's all-- >> With Enterprise DNN Enterprise support, right? >> That's correct, that's right, and then ultimately we know that combination of expertise is very material in that scale for our customers to be able to leverage. >> So Ajay, you've got a long history with the Enterprise customers. The people have been using VMware for a long, long, time. What are you seeing from your existing customer base? What kind of technologies are they interested in? What are they moving to? Where is the momentum? >> So, clearly the excitement hype is around containers, Kubernetes, serverless, et cetera. But their bread and butter workloads, are existing applications. They're looking to optimize their data center costs, some trying to eliminate data centers, they're looking to lift and shift entire landscapes of application, move them to cloud. They're looking for expertise, building a center of excellence. Start up a prominent operation model or on a multi-cloud world So they're now starting to hit, what I call, real-world problems, where the experiments are working, they need to now create operational model around it and it's starting to go back to the trusted partners, VMware is a platform provider, Rackspace is a trusted managed services provider. Whether it's up front and design or to help operate. So we're starting to see this maturities coming in place and cost is not really the driver. They're starting to find that public out cost is actually an issue. So cost management too. If you just walk around the shop floor, it's all about cost management, security, visibility. These are all signs of a maturing market. >> And because of that, and you talk about a maturing market, if I'm just now making my entry, alright? I've decided, hey we're running our company, it's time to jump into the public cloud. Is there benefit to us being maybe a bit-- >> A bit more lore? >> more reticent yeah, than others, because there've been other growing pains, you've already kind of, you've found where the wrinkles were and so we will benefit by those past experiences? >> Absolutely, yeah. >> So I'm giving you a chance, I mean talk to somebody who hasn't made that commitment yet, and they're thinking I'm so far behind >> Yes. >> But they're not. >> Yeah, I mean I think this is a spot-on point, right? So when we work with enterprises, what we're really seeing is that, let's say a company has got 10 divisions within the company and you know, generally speaking, you've got maybe a couple divisions that have gone ahead of the pack. They've already done it, because they actually went with the cloud curve. They're leading the world internally. They're being the internal sponsors and the champions for the movement and you've got some laggards along the way as well. So Rackspace, our job is to really bring true up, if you will, the level of capability with the groups that are actually lagging. And also, not to do it in an artificial way, but actually do it on their terms, to say, you know what, you may not be ready for, a containerized world tomorrow. Maybe you actually start leveraging basic, easy to, and that's the way to get started. Which is fewer and fewer number of companies that are not there already, but the ability for you to move along and use advanced services, that's our job, to keep moving them and encouraging them to do it, bu enabling them through our tooling that we built and leveraging through partners like VMware or even on the top of each of the public clouds that we built, proprietary tooling, or through the expertise that we bring up to bat. So that's the combination. >> It's never to late to get started, so for customers who might've just decided that, actually I've decided, yes, it's time to go to cloud, I'm ready. How do they begin? How should they start on this journey? How would they start to engage with you? >> Yeah, I think for us, it's a what we've noticed, is that it's very important to just make sure that you take a success-based and phase-based approach. And so, starting with a place in the organization, where it actually makes a difference, there's a differentiated set of applications that are going to make a difference for the customer that they're trying to serve. Or it could be, listen, they have actually a problem where they have 27 DC's, as a customer that I was talking to yesterday that is about to join us, they're trying to consolidate down to six data centers over the next two years. So how do you go about that problem of doing DC consolidation and how do you figure out which workloads go on which platform, et cetera. So starting with some very specific problems, could be as big as a DC problem, or it could be as specific as, let's go work on this very specific differentiated critical application on the cloud et cetera, and that really creates a mushrooming effect, 'cause you notice the difference it makes in terms of developer productivity, your agility, your ability to deploy coded production multiple times and that just drives, you know, it gains the attention of, what we've seen is, that finally gets the attention of the CIO in the company and then the CIO is like, listen I better get control of this, because in some situations we have hundreds and thousands of Amazon accounts within these organizations, that they ultimately now want governance and visibility, and so that's when it starts creating a more holistic, enterprise-wide strategy around cloud and adoption and one of the various form factors they should use, to actually to keep moving on. So really it's mushrooming with a center of excellence and a sponsor or a line of business that's really starting and that's really where we've seen success. >> You know one other thing I'll add to that is, the guys who are fast followers now, are getting the benefit of hindsight of other partners, as you just said. And couple things I'm starting to see in the market. They're starting to make some strategic bets. They're picking a strategic technology partner from a technology platform perspective. They're looking for a strategic service provider partner, a managed service partner. And they're starting to look at them as trusted partners. The conversations are moving away from being transactional, to more success oriented. Now even Andy talk about that. It's really about outcomes and in this journey, I think you're starting to find the right partners, building the core competency within your organization and finding those sustaining technology platform choices that guide you through this hybrid world. That's what the world went with, the battlefield now is all about hybrid. It's no longer about private or public. Everyone's just, even Amazon finally recognized, the world is a hybrid with their outpost announcement, right? And starting to look at how do I work in this hybrid world and what's the right operating model. So it's a really interesting time to kind of make, say look, the world is going to be public and private, how do I operate in this? >> Cloud all the things >> Makes sense. I do want to say, before we say goodbye, that when Prashanth was talking about laggards, he was really looking at us (all laughing) an awful lot, but I don't know, I don't know what to make of that, but we won't take it too personally >> Might be the beard maybe. >> Thanks for being with us. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you for having us, >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you gentlemen. Back with more from AWS re:Invent. We're live in Las Vegas and you're watching the Cube. (relaxing music)

>> LIVE from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and it's Ecosystem Partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of VMworld 2018! I'm Lisa Martin, finally paired up with Stu Miniman. Hey, Stu! >> Lisa, three days, wall-to-wall coverage and how have you and I not been paired together yet? >> Did you do the scheduling, Stu? >> Um. >> That's okay. I'm glad to be paired up with you. The last interview, saving the best for last. Speaking of the last, we've got two guests, welcoming back some alumni to theCUBE, who also seem to be so busy at VMworld that you come to us as our last guests. I like this tradition. >> You had be the bookend, you know? Got to be the bookend. >> Best for last. >> Exactly. We've got Ajay Patel, SVP of VMware, and Russ Reeder, CEO of OVH US. Welcome, guys! >> Thank you, great to be here. - Thank you. >> Saving the best for last. >> Best for last, you bet. >> So, last year just, yeah, VMworld last year, vCloud Air acquisition by OVH had just happened. Give us an update on what's gone on in the last year and the momentum that that is giving the OVH business in the U.S. >> So, we're super excited to be here on second year as a Diamond Sponsor. We, as OVH Cloud, coming to the U.S. is a great opportunity. OVH is the largest hosting company in Europe. Everyone knows who we are in Europe, we come to the U.S. a year and a half ago, every one's like, who's OVH? We acquire vCloud Air, partnered with VMware, which is old news in Europe. For the past nine years, we've been virtualizing vSphere, seven of those nine we've been the award winning partner in Europe. So coming to America, the best way to really launch with the VMware partnership is to acquire vCloud Air. All of those customers, and brought over those employees, and the best news is that we just launched two months ago, starting to migrate those customers over to OVH Cloud. >> Fantastic. >> It's very exciting. >> Yes. >> Ajay, so, Multi-Cloud being the story of the show, we've seen really the maturation after, you know, we've been tracking this for a lot of years. It was like, okay, do we have the VMware Cloud story? Are we happy with it? Things like that. So first of all, congrats to you and your team. >> Thank you. >> We've had some good proof points, a lot of partners I hear. >> Absolutely. >> I'm joking to you, it's like, yeah, OVH- >> OVH clearly one of the important ones. (laughs loudly) >> So, you know, put this in perspective for us as to, from the vCloud Air world to, you know, we're talking AWS, IBM, OVH and many others. >> Stu, you and I talked about it a couple of times now, this is year number four, so thank you for inviting me, first of all. Our strategy's been consistent. How do we get VMware running on as many destinations as possible? And Hybrid, for us, has been a strategy that's been consistent. Glad the market caught up, even having Andy Jassy talk about moving RDS and making it available to vSphere on-prem is really a sign of maturity that the world is going to be hybrid for a long time. So from a strengths perspective, Hybrid is here to stay and we're really focused on what we've been calling this Cloud Verified Partner. So, OVH is a handful of partners that have reached that highest level achievement of delivering a full-stack VMware CDC and it can have a consistent infrastructure experience that cost customers 10 dollars. So we're at a point where the strategy's being realized. Strategic partners like OVH are delivering a full-stack VMware and customers are seeing the value of delivering Cloud, whether public Cloud or on-prem on vSphere. >> Russ, as I said, multi-cloud, it's matured a bit. You know, one of the big questions we had coming into was that AWS partnership, how much of it is a one-way? Well, things like RDS, really interesting. I've spent a bunch of time digging into it and understanding it. The other thing is, it's as Ajay said, the strategy was VMware everywhere. And partners like yourself, okay, where do we play? You know, public cloud's not the enemy, it's what do we do, what do we partner with? How they're help fitting the landscape as to, you know, how OVH and, you know, how do you play in that larger ecosystem and differentiate and, you know? >> Yeah, I think the third generation of the cloud here coming to multi-cloud is kind of going the first generation of hey, someone needs to do it for me. AWS, I'm going to do it myself. Now, hey, I want to do it myself, but I need multi-cloud. I'm not going to put all my eggs in one basket, I need a true infrastructure partner where I have predictability on billing. I don't have ingress or egress charges. I have a true infrastructure partner with the automation that can scale globally. And so, 20 years ago when we started OVH in Europe, the opportunity there was wide open. Coming here to the U.S. now it's a perfect opportunity in multi-cloud where all customers are saying I need to get out of my closet. I have seven-year-old machines in my Colo facility. I'm all-in-one whether it's AWS, or IBM, or another partner out there, they need to put different workloads where they would work best or DR. So coming in as a true infrastructure player with all of our automation, it's actually perfect timing for OVH to come to the U.S. and laugh OVH Cloud. >> So I'm curious, obviously with the European you have their legacy as we've transitioned and it's a spectrum but from kind of the traditional hosted environment to you're almost fully satisfied when you go this. >> Sure. >> The US, do you still have the spectrum or are you more built the modern with the vCloud Air being the foundation? You know, what spectrum of services are you offering customers? >> We offer the full spectrum. We had the opportunity to take OVH, all of our experience and systems, take the next generation of OVH in Europe, launch it in the U.S. and then bringing that back to Europe. So what we're launching in the U.S. is a full spectrum. The initial launch with VMware, fully hosted suite of the VMware products. So we have the VMware, the vSphere, vSAN, NSX offering that we've just announced. And having nine years of experience with vSphere as a service is a great opportunity to launch that. We also have a public cloud and that's the open source OpenStack public cloud, which is a different unique opportunity for a lot of companies that don't want to go the traditional public cloud. We also, being one of the largest dedicated server providers. It's all built on dedicated server, even server-less compute. And so you have to find a infrastructure partner that doesn't want to provide solutions first, and how do we rack and stack second. We understand the infrastructure and the network globally to help our partner's succeed. >> Ajay, I wonder if you could speak a little bit to the portfolio that your partners get to get access to from VMware. I was just interviewing Milin Desai, who you know oh so well. And the SAS piece is so, you know, it gets lost. You know, infrastructure as a service is one piece, but, you know, it's applications and services and, you know, yeah. >> Yeah, so far our cloud provider partners, what we've done is we introduced something we call Cloud Provider Platform. It gives them all the tools they need to sign up for Cloud, as Russ talked about, in a dedicated cloud. We give you a multi-tenant cloud. We're also, now with our cloud hub announcement, taking the VMware IP Cloud Services and making them available to our partners. And when you think about a partner on MSP, he's no longer just the asset heavy like OVH, but he's also the asset like a DXE. So we're now opening up the aperture for anyone who wants to either build clouds, or use clouds to offer managed services on top. I love the fact that OVH has economics, efficiency, and the customer support with the full VMware value proposition. They've always been the leader in kind of vSphere hosting, now they're offering a full private cloud built on VMware and the managed services go with it. So it's really about that choice, which really uniquely makes a provider program so compelling to our end customers. >> We've heard choice a lot. We hear it, Stu, at every show. Customers need choice, companies like VMware, OVH needs to build for what the customers want, not what you guys all think is great. Another thing that we've heard a lot at this show is that the seamlessness of the message, starting with Pat Gelsinger's keynote on Monday morning with people saying, you know, the structure is in place. I also thought it was one that was very cohesive in terms of the messaging and how the technologies are working together. I'm curious to get your feedback on what are some of the things that you've heard around this show from your customers who need a choice or in multi-cloud environments for many reasons, right? Applications that kind of dictate which direction that needs to go in, or through acquisition and, you know, have multiple cloud solutions. How are they taking this message? Especially with what you're doing with OVH in the U.S. And be able to digest this so they can really figure out, alright, here's what I can do with my infrastructure so that my business succeeds, whether I'm a bank or I'm a hospital. Tell us about that. >> I can go first and then Russ can add. So I think one of the things we've done a really good job this time is clarifying the message. I'm hoping, to the market, we're now becoming a very relevant and strategic platform that spans beyond the traditional VMware data center and hybrid cloud. So the first message is, you know, VMware is providing you the solutions while you're building on VMware or you're building on native clouds. And that CloudHealth acquisition is a good indication of VMware's commitment to kind of pure native public cloud. The second I would say is hybrid and this kind of consistent environment for runtime, if you will, and this hybrid control plane that give people a sense that I will lift and shift my workload first to an OVH and then transform leveraging the power of the public cloud. So it's become very pleasing to say, look, I don't need to change for changes sake, I can move and get economics off a public cloud, a dedicator, or even a pure multi-tenant. But then I can now refactor using public cloud services. So the power of VMware is giving them the flexibility to start a leverage cloud without having to make an upfront investment just for change sake, but more for the business transformation they're trying to drive, right? >> Yeah and so, what we've seen from the OVH side is really coming here and looking at all the partners. So we have Veam for backup, we can no offer Zerto for disaster recovery. Obviously, the VMware partnership we just launched earlier in the week which David Wigglesworth, our chief revenues officer was on talking about our partnership strategy and we have an amazing opportunity to bring partners in. FusionStorm is one of those partners, IT services. So OVH Cloud, we don't compete with our partners, true infrastructure partner with they can leverage our 28 data centers and our 15 terabytes of network and no charges for ingress. So what we're seeing here, our customers are coming and saying, hey, I just used you for DR but I'd like to actually take my on-prem full production system and bring it to the cloud now. So the customer's were migrating. There's more comfort going to the cloud, there's more understanding of the partnership ecosystem, and now instead of just saying, oh, we're going to just put DR or backup, we're going to come and we're going to migrate our entire production system because we've tried it out, our foot's been in the water, and now we're going all-in. So that's exciting and talking to all the customers this week, I love it. It's so exciting to talk to our customers that have migrated to OVH Cloud in the U.S. and now they want to bring over those production workloads. That's where it's really kind of that multi-cloud and I think VMware's been a huge asset to the cloud market in their strategy and a great partner. >> Getting that validation from your customers, the momentum that OVH is carrying is working. You've done a lot of education, especially in the last year. They're getting it and you're seeing your technologies and your partnership validating what it is that they're business needs. >> It's disheartening almost that the technology is in place now. We had to migrate from the vCloud Air into the OVH data center. Those tools, those best practices, those skills now are available to the end customer. So the compelling value here is, you want to take the entire data center and move it to OVH, we know how to do it. We have the tools, the people, the skills. And so just that kind of reference, the ability to say I'm not the first one to do it. It's been done before. That confidence is building in their business now. >> We had the opportunity, I mean, I don't want to say that there was a bleeding edge, but we were on a bleeding edge of HCX and it's working seamlessly now. >> Hybrid Cloud Exchange. >> The extension to bring, without any downtime, from on-prem to over to the cloud with OVH Cloud, or from the vCloud Air cloud over to ours. So it's working and the customer's are super excited, they get that trust. They go back to their management team and say, hey, now it's time to go more. I can go to the cloud and the cost efficiency, the savings, the redundancy of the network and the power, and not all this capex. That's why they're all moving to the cloud now. >> Final thing, you've talked about some good high level things. Any specific customer examples? I know you might not be able to mention names, but, you know, Vertical, or things like that as to how businesses are helping to transform themselves after they've done these sort of solutions. >> Yeah, sure, I mean first of all, it's all about the customer. So we, I can't mention any specific names, we will have some, we filmed some customer testimonials in the booth that we'll be announcing and maybe the next time we can bring customers up here to talk about it. Whether it's really education or high-tech, especially on a high-tech, the tech guys love OVH, right? They really love it. But from an infrastructure provider, people that are looking to lift and shift their existing applications without having to rewrite their applications for a public cloud, that's where OVH really comes into play. I've got all of these systems. I've got VMware on-prem, I need to move it but I don't want to rebuild it. So that's where we see the excitement of, of course I'm going to build some new stuff in the cloud, but how do I take all of my thousands of applications that we have, that we're never going to refactor and just move it over to the cloud to have that security. That's where I think customers are saying, wow, I can't actually do more in the cloud than I thought I could. >> For me, I think, I just walked out of a customer meeting, so I won't name them but just kind of give you a sense of what they're doing. They have four clouds, they believe they have monolithic applications, they don't want to be locked in to a particular cloud, so you're hearing the consistent view is, we're trying to figure out how do we change our development practices. You know, how do we leverage container, whether it's PKS, whether it's payloads. What's my development methodology? How do I make sure that deployment gives me a choice of running across clouds? How should I setup my IT operations to operate in the cloud? So consistency, portability, how do I manage the complexity of running on multiple clouds? What's my cost profile and how do I do it effective? So those are the kinds of questions we're getting. They're starting to look to VMware as a trusted advisor, that safe choice, as we talked about, to say, you know, one thing I can bet on is if I bet on VMware technology, it runs on more clouds than I can, you know, when I need them. It is portable, I can take a workload that traditionally I'd run on different hardware, now we run it on different clouds. So we're seeing a tremendous momentum around this notion of VMware's kind of the pathway or the hybrid control plane that we can bet on. And then partners like OVH, etc. But I have this destination that's safe, that's secure, that's consistent with what they're running today. So pretty exciting in terms of how customers kind of take in the message and start to put it into their strategy as they go forward. >> One more thing I'd like to understand, you talked about the tremendous capabilities that OVH and VMware have together with vCloud Air. You can enable customers to do a lot. To transform IT, to facilitate digital transformation. They're comfortable with this. But one of the things that that absolutely requires is cultural transformation. I'd love to get your final thoughts on how is OVH and VMware together helping your customers to understand and really impact the cultural changes that are need to take advantage, full advantage of the technology? >> That's a great question. Go ahead. >> On our side, what we try to do is, we as a company are going through the same transformation. We're a perpetual company becoming a services company. So the lessons learned, I spent some time where I-CIO actually talks about how we're operating our internal cloud. We're talking about the best practices of how we're moving to a service first mentality. How we're creating a CICD development mentality and practices. How are we leveraging public clouds and how are we managing cost? So those internal lessons learned, we're starting to make available to our customers and our partners. We're also packaging some of the products that we make available to VCP, our provider program. So the products that we're building up much more suited to run a services organization, which when we started five years ago at vCloud Air, we took enterprise products and tried to force fit them, now we're much more delivering our own service, eating our own dog food, if you will, have to incorporate that capability into our platform. So it's a combination of product improvement, best practices and lessons learned that we're making available to the market. >> I can talk from specific example. Acquiring vCloud Air, a great customer base, and all of the personnel from VMware in vCloud Air to come over. So not only was it cultural from a customers perspective, but also from an employee perspective. You build culture on trust. So what's interesting is that our employees and our customers that were over in Europe, in our U.K data centers and our German data centers, they're growing much quicker than the ones over in the U.S. The U.S. after a year of working with us and seeing that, hey, we say we're going to do this and now we're actually doing it, and I've migrated and that was really easy, and I can point and click and actually expand my compute and my storage and add more hosts in a matter of minutes. That builds trust, that has a great culture, and that spreads. So, from an education perspective, we have a lot of higher education customers, and now they're like, I'm going to go talk to this school and this school, and that word of mouth is golden. >> That validation of, we've been in your shoes, VMware has been in our shoes, they've done it successfully. Guys, I wish we had more time, but thanks so much for helping Stu and I wrap up the day on this set. It's great to talk to you both. I think it might be fair to say that we'll probably see you at the next VMworld on day three around the same time. >> Yeah, perfect! - Hopefully earlier. >> Maybe. Ajay, Russ, thank you so much for your time. >> Thank you. - Thank you so much, Lisa. >> For my co-host, Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's continuing coverage of VMworld 2018. Stick around, we'll be back to wrap up the show. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. Covering VM World 2017. Brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. >> I'm Stu Miniman, here with my cohost Keith Townsend, and you're watching wall to wall coverage of VM World 2017 on the Cube here in Las Vegas. You know, third day of programming. We've done so many interviews. A lot of people went to parties last night, you know up early for lots of executive meetings, but you know we go strong through the whole show because we've got great guests, so happy to welcome to the program first time guest, Peter FitzGibbon, Vice President and General Manager with Rackspace, and welcome back to the program Ajay Patel with VM Ware. >> Great to be here. >> Alright, so Peter, you know, Rackspace, interesting transformation over the last few years. You know we've had the Cube at OpenStack for a bunch of years. I've heard almost no discussion of OpenStack this week at the show. >> Man: I'm not complaining. >> I talked to Rackers though, at Reinvent. You have, you know, kind of reinvented the business there, but the VM partnership is one that's been going on for many years. Some people I talk to don't understand. I mean this is a sizable business that you've been doing. I said, you know, let's measure the Rackspace managed VM Ware business against the entire revenue stream of OpenStack outside of what RackSpace does, you know, and it's an interesting comparison. >> So RackSpace continues through the multi cloud company, offering our customers the choice and flexibility they want, so our OpenStack practice continues to grow strong and we continue to invest there, as we do in our VM Ware practice, which we have a great partnership with. Ajay and his team, over the last 10 plus years. >> Also for us, the partnership's only growing stronger. If you walk around WM World with all the banners, you've walked into the airports, the investment RackSpace is making around VM Ware technology, I couldn't be much more happier, so thank you for that. >> So Peter, to Stu's point, RackSpace has been part of the VM Ware community for a long time. I've run into a couple of Rackers on the show floor, talked through kind of what they're doing with their feet on the ground, great work. Can you talk through the relationship with the customer to this point? I mean RackSpace is known for fanatical support. How has that conversation changed over the past three years or so as we've gone through this changing VM Ware strategy to where we're at today? >> Yeah, we're continuing to try to support the customer on whichever technology they really want to land on, so it starts with the planning and analysis phase that we sit with customers and analyze their work loads and try to figure out what's the best fit for them outside of determining is it OpenStack, is it VM Ware? Is it our fanatical support on top of AWS? From a VM Ware perspective, we're really helping people to determine how to move out of the data center, or at least not extend the data centers as they have them right now. We recently launched our RackSpace private cloud powered by VM Ware Cloud foundations. It went to general availability last week, so that's a global effort that we're discussing with our clients and it's proving a very attractive options for those looking for an alternative to their own private cloud and moving to hosting private cloud model. >> Peter, that operating experience is one of the things that customers have been challenged with, and RackSpace, you know, known for, you know, they know how to do this. Talk to us about some of this journey as to how your customers are seeing things. You know RackSpace has had a few different private cloud options you talk about. You've given your customers choice, but what's different now in 2017 and what's the mindset of your customers? >> Yeah, we continue to offer 24 by seven, 365 fanatical support. It's what we really see as our true differentiator in the market, or we have 150 certified VM Ware Rackers on the team that really go beyond, above and beyond every single day for these customers, and looking at not just how to migrate into our private cloud, but how to optimize them when we're there, when they've landed on a VM Ware private hosted cloud solution, how do we really optimize it and really get the full value of the technology? And these are expensive and difficult technologies to use, so you want to make sure people are really getting the true value out of NSX and VSAN, and now with VCF, which we're really excited about. >> Yeah, for us, it's, you know, as you were speaking, I mean the biggest challenge and the constraints exclude resources. Having 150 specialists out there with fanatical support with the great VM Ware technology. And in some ways the VM Ware cloud announcement is kind of making the awareness that you have a cloud stack, that you can now get through, you know RackSpace private cloud, so for us it's really all boats are rising as a result, and not having the skilled capability to then accelerate deployment and delivery and operations is pretty exciting. >> So Ajay, can you talk a little bit about working with RackSpace specifically because RackSpace has a tradition of having a very pronounced way of supporting customers, whether you're a Fortune 500 or you're a small ma and pa shop, RackSpace is going to come with full engineering might and help build the most reliable solution, and that comes with kind of, I imagine, a predisposed position on something like VCF, VM Ware Cloud Foundation. What has it been like to engineer? >> I'll speak the best thing from one of the joint customers that we had the opportunity to be on a panel with, Show Tell, right, and it was interesting to say how Show Tell said RackSpace is part of their operating team, so they enrolled up front in terms of having a partner who can help them with the choice, they made the selection based on the excellent support, but more importantly, they're just an extension of the operating team, and being able to have a single team manage both the on prem and the cloud without having to build a separate kind of cloud team, that was a critical piece of this decision, so kind of this common operating model, which they seamlessly augment with skillset, you know, that was really what resonated for Show Tell and was the reason they chose. >> The operating model is something I was just going to go to in terms of really helping people how they're going to live in this multi cloud world across multiple different technology stacks, and that's what our fanatical support is intended to be, to really be an extension of their, of a homegrown IT team so we can really get the full benefit of these complicated technologies. >> Alright, Peter, you talk multi cloud, and one of the things we talk to customers is a lot of times they say they have a cloud strategy, but how they got there wasn't necessarily as plan full as they might have liked. I had somebody writing for Wikibon a couple years ago said we have composite cloud because you kind of look at it and you always said, you know, do I have Amazon? Yeah, everybody does, you know. Oh I've got some app that somebody needed on GCP. RackSpace is a manage service provider for a lot of different pieces. How do you help customers get their arms around it, you know, and you know, maybe talk, the VM Ware on Amazon, the VMC stuff, how do you look at that in the future, how does that tie into kind of the skillset that your team has? >> So we often see customers coming in with that composite cloud situation where they're like we think we're multi cloud, but we're not truly because they don't have a defined strategy about why they put certain workloads in certain places, it just grew up organically, often through lines of business. VMC is a really exciting offer for us and we're going to be launching it in early 2018. It really gives more choice for customers in terms of where they're going to run their workloads, be it running them in different availability zones that RackSpace doesn't cover or potentially used as a DR solution. >> So let's dive into that composite cloud space, and I really love that comment. What, cloud, multi cloud is one of those things, you don't know you don't have a multi cloud until you don't know you don't have a multi cloud. What are some of the surefire indicators that customers are in where a composite cloud experience or environment versus a true multi cloud? Like what is that conversation like? >> Man: What's a good best practice, yeah? >> Well I think there isn't a lot of good best practices from our customers' point of view. I think they often come in and we lay out their, look at their architectures, look at their different applications, and they're often just, central IT doesn't know where most of it is running half the time, so it's really like okay, let's look at each part of this and decide for you what's the best fit, where should it go? Should we be putting something on Azure or Azure Stack? Should it be better suited to OpenStack? Or is it, they're very familiar with VM Ware and they want to continue to leverage VM Ware either on a host model or internally in their own data center. >> What we're learning is you just don't have visibility, so the biggest interest and the demand when we launched our cross cloud or cloud services, the notion of having visibility of what's running where. And the second question is how much is it costing me, and what can I move and what are the data security leakages that I want to put in place because these things weren't controlled. So those are kind of just knowing, right, knowing where your data is, knowing where your workloads are and how much they're costing you. That's the first baseline they're looking for help on. Once they've got that, then they're like okay, how do I still provide some level of self service and control to the end user while putting some structure by which I can go to a multi cloud strategy? So that's the journey we're just about to see with IT coming into play. >> Peter, I have to mention human interest viewpoint on the ecosystem. RackSpace, I think I understand better now than a few years ago what services you did. VM Ware just launched a bunch of SAS offerings. There were some launched last year. I can't count how many companies are helping people with cloud cost management, licensing, you know, you name it, 12 different aspects to take bites out of this giant elephant of multi cloud and do that. What are the biggest pain points you're hearing from customers? How do you help advise some of them and bring some of the pieces together? >> And it's not even what we see from a customer standpoint. You think of RackSpace, we have to integrate all of these clouds into our own internal system, so we get to experience it firsthand as the customer how we create unified billing systems, how we have unified monitoring, how we integrate all their own legacy systems to deal with these clouds, so we effectively learn from integrating into our own systems, then can advise our customers on the pain points we've seen and bring them on that journey to help them through their true multi cloud approach. >> So if we blow it out and a customer comes to you and they want a multi cloud strategy, and you know, you kind of show them the ugly, you show them the truth for where they're at, what's the next step, like from a practical tactical perspective? What's like step one to helping with SAS applications and for viability for each one of the RackSpace offerings? >> Yeah, so we have a framework which we call PADMO. It's plan, analyze, design, migrate, optimize. It took me a second to get the last part out, and trying to, that planning stage is really where we sit with the customer aside, okay, what does your environment look like and why is it that way? Were things made in a conscious decision or did it just happen organically? So we try to figure out what did they do intentionally and what, what just grew up organically? And move from there into designing or analyzing what's best fit for the different cloud strategies, then start designing it, migrating it, and then effectively optimizing it when they land on RackSpace and show the value of our 24 seven, 365 fanatical support. >> For us, it's about, for us the technology part, and we want to enable the core VM Foundation, but we also believe that network connectivity's the next big thing, so things like NSXT is something we're already having conversation with, like how are we going to stitch these clouds together, how do we make it more software defined so as we move towards this kind of policy driven, you know management abstraction, how do we then open up the different clouds and service that capability? So that's really the next journey for both of us from VCM, or VM Ware Cloud Foundation to the broader multi cloud strategy. >> And Ajay, your, you know, cloud provider partners, what about services? Is there any joint engagement or things that VM Ware helps write that are? >> So one of the big service for all, we're kind of coming together is around DR. Consistently the easy step to get to a hybrid or a leverage cloud is disaster recovery. What if we made that a native feature of the VM Ware stack? We could have our customer right click on a VM and protected by all these service provider clouds. That's an example of something we're kind of trying to generalize. Now on each of them, the complexity of operating it, the scale, the visibility, the service levels, those are unique to each partner, but we're trying to make sure that the platform gives you this basic capability to capture workloads. >> I feel like DR is essential to everyone's road map right now. Most of our customers, maybe all of our customers are requiring DR when they land on RackSpace, and we're really looking at that on our 2018 roadmap to see how we make DR, as a service, consistently part of the offering. >> So what works well and what doesn't work well? When you go through that initial setup complication, so DR's a great example of oh, this is low hanging fruit. We either don't have a DR that's working or we don't have DR at all, and there's kind of this, you know, when you whiteboard it, it works extremely well. What are some of the practical business challenges that you see customers experience on that journey? >> There's definitely some easy options to move first for customers. DR is a common one that we see, DevTest as well in terms of okay, how can you test out our environments and do it in a low risk way? There's always going to be those more core applications, those mission critical applications that people will wait till the end until they migrate, so let's migrate them to RackSpace private cloud and see how it operates, maybe as a DR environment, or as a DEV environment test environment, and then as they build confidence and see what fanatical support we offer, then they start moving more mission critical workloads. >> I share the same. Tier one usually is high availability, high design, high touch, tier two often ignored, too expensive, too hard. We're trying to go after the tier two or tier three apps and just provide a convenient cloud economics for protecting those workloads. >> Peter, I'm curious, how often are customers trying one thing and then moving into another? You know I get calls all the time, you know, data gravity of course is a big issue, but you know if I'm building an application, sometimes it's like oh wait, you know maybe this isn't the best place to live. Lots of customers, you know, will build one place and run production in another place. You know we've seen that. How much is mobility in turn, is lock in still a challenge? You know, how much, what's real and what's not? >> I think lock in is still a challenge, but we're certainly looking into how we're helping our customers move from one cloud to another. We continue work in our different business units across RackSpace, be it VM Ware, AWS, Azure Open Stack, and see how we can offer flexibility for customers. When they realize they've gone too far on one or another, we're not seeing specific use cases of everybody moving from one to another, it's more of a pick and choose, and so we're helping customers migrate from one to another as needed. >> So I'd be interested to know what, not percentage, what type of customer kind of has this hybrid IT or hybrid cloud approach in RackSpace where they build cloud native applications and then connect them to a VCF or VM Ware private cloud, and I think more specifically, I think the question that I would like to get at is that a real thing that, not necessarily real thing, is that impacting friction between the public cloud with cloud native applications and your ability to manage that and add that fanatical support in the developer looking to consume that, to integrate it to VM Ware? >> I'm not seeing that friction between the different technologies. I think, at RackSpace we try work across all of them to offer the choice to our clients and our customers as much as possible, make sure we really offer them the best choice and put the workloads in where they really are best suited to run. >> And opposition is you know container and micro sourced architecture are going to provide an excellent frameworks and tools. The maturity's still in the works, and our goal is to say can we make, you know, either VM or physical, be it the best place for deploying, and what are the tools and capability you need to provide? So for us, networking, security, those are kind of fundamental problems regardless if you're building a cloud native app or a traditional app, and how do we insert our value into the equation versus trying to own the whole solution, right? >> Peter FitzGibbon, thank you so much for getting the update on RackSpace. Ajay, always a pleasure. I'm trying to remember what the five time award is. We'll talk to John Furrier, make sure we have it ready for the next time we have you on. For Keith Townsend, I'm Stu Miniman. This is VM World 2017 and you are watching the Cube. >> Man: Thank you guys. (upbeat instrumental music)

[Narrator] Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware, and it's ecosystem partner. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, here with my cohost Keith Townsend. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of VMworld 2017 here in Las Vegas. Happy to welcome to the program two guests who are going to dig into what's happening in the cloud space. A big, big hot topic of the show. Dave Shacochis, who is the vice president of product management at CenturyLink, Ajay Patel, SVP/GM of now Cloud Provider Software at VMware. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you Stu. >> Nice to see you again Stu. >> Alright, so Dave. Here's a question we've asked coming into this week. VMware was doing this vCloud Air for a bunch of years. They're a competitor, no they're a partner with the vCloud network ... vCloud air now went over to OVH, and I think they waited 48 hours before they made this big deal with AWS so, tell us how the relationship has been not just one of the 4,500 service providers, but you're sitting on panels with VMware, you're one of the larger partners. >> We were on a panel discussion and we were talking about this earlier today. I think when vCloud Air launched we had some of these same conversations, and there were probably cube discussions where almost the same question was asked. What I said back then, and what a lot of us in the service provider community said back then, and we say it again now, is that ... And this is true, not just of VMware, but this is true of any enterprise architect, you run a better system, you build better software when you're running it 24-7 as a live service. It's just better. The software is better. The user experience is better. You're thinking about integration angles, and availability issues. The software gets better when you run it operationally, and VMware's technology got better when they launched vCloud Air and figured out that their virtualization technology, what they had been working with the service provider community around for years, it improved when they went and launched it and lived the life of a service provider. So we're actually excited about that. We're aligning to the same architecture. What's nice is that what they're running in the cloud, in the VMware cloud foundation, is the same thing we're running in our cloud-neutral facilities inside of the CenturyLink data center footprint. So, it's very interoperable. >> Ajay please ... >> So my response would be there are a few things that I've changed. One is, there wasn't a Cloud provider software business unit. I am dedicated to making the likes of David successful. Taking that IP and commercializing that, that's fundamental to our strategy. Second one is, we rebranded this to VMware cloud providers. The idea is you can get VMware cloud in one of three ways. You can build it yourself, get it on VMware cloud or AWS, more importantly but get it through our partners. Your choice based on the best cloud that fits your needs. So it's that level playing field, both on go to market, in terms of Geoff Waters, now the cloud sales leader over all of the different programs, technology, IP being made available, compensation neutrality ... These are all the things we "learn" from our VCM experience, if you will to do this right. So that we continue driving multi-cloud strategy, and certainly about centered around customer choice. >> Can we talk about the basic difference between those three delivery methods? From a customer's perspective, what's the difference in the look and feel of those? >> I think at the end of the day it's about getting VMware value in an integrated fashion. But that's not just sufficient, so when you go to cloud it's no longer just say, "Give me a virtualized environment." That's the "hard bit" of packaging stuff infrastructure, but that's not enough value. On top of that is the application is really the value. Managing that application, and the life cycle of the value. This is where the likes of CenturyLink really come into play. So we believe we're kind of democratizing in terms of the consumption of a cloud stack in one of three ways. It's really customer preference, and really how much burden they want to take on. On the private cloud side they're building it instead of buying it as a service. They prefer to go on AWS for whatever reason for their cloud strategy. They now have a VMware choice. Or they can go to a partner like CenturyLink to help them manage the entire journey including managing multiple clouds. So it's really about the customer choice, what's right for them versus putting them in a silo. >> What's really been good for us especially around the VMware cloud foundation reference architecture is that it starts to make the private clouds react predictably. Our offer net has now been architected and based around VMware Cloud Foundation. It stands up with the software defined data center architecture at each layer of the stack. We don't have to orchestrate nearly as many technology sets in order to make a private cloud app. We've been running hosted private cloud for as long as there have been hosted private clouds. CenturyLink has been managing as part of the cloud service provider program and all its earlier naming variances. But what this latest architecture allows us to do is not only remove the number of things that we need to integrate against, the integration code we need to write and all the different vendor technologies we need to orchestrate against it, it pulls it all into one scale out software, a divine stack, which makes our customer experience better. It drives better self-service, more reliable self-service, into the hands of our customers so that they can move faster. It allows our private cloud to become more predictable so that we can start managing it with our multi-cloud cloud application manager product. So we launched that earlier this year. It was a combination of some of the managed hosting tools and capabilities that we've had back in the days. It combines in the abstraction software we got from a company called ElasticBox that we acquired last year. We weave that together into one multi-cloud layer, so it now looks at private clouds and other public clouds as just another deployment destination on that multi-cloud managing journey. >> Effectively competition moving above the SVC layer. We're kind of making SVC common. Let's compete on the value, and the solution that we both want. >> Ironically this was the promise of open source projects to make this common platform across private, public, and multi-clouds. You use the term that a lot of people may not be familiar with, cloud neutral facilities. What is that term? >> A cloud neutral facility is one that can basically get you connected to a number of different cloud deployment form factors. It's not a one note show, a one approach kind of model. It's really about a service provider that from... When you said the term facility, that can really just be a service provider environment that basically gets the particular workload to the best execution venue for that individual set of run time conditions. To us, being in more of a cloud neutral posture, certainly means we're bringing some parts of our hosted environment, whether it's private or We have a multi-tenant environment that we can provision to as well. We use that multi-tenant environment to actually speed up our own development of higher level services. And then we partner across the different cloud service providers like AWS and Microsoft Azure. We tie into that. It's really about looking at the data center as an extension of all the potential run time venues, both ones that you might build on your own, and then ones that are available to you. >> Dave, I want you to expand on that. One of the things I've been getting out of this week is that maturation of how we've been talking about clouds. A couple years ago I was critical of VMware. It was like, any device, any application, one cloud. I was like "Wrong". No. Amazon. Absolutely, 100 percent public cloud ... I think they understand, if not 100 percent, we'll see where Amazon goes in the future. You said you're tying into the likes of Amazon and Azure. I'm assuming that's direct connect, and those kinds of services. How do we think of CenturyLink? Where do you add value? How do you make money in these various pieces? I remember (old company name) was one of the vCloud era data centers, and boy margins were going to be real tight on something like that. >> Our multi-cloud posture and the direction we see things going is really one that starts and the largest anchor point for CenturyLink's strategy is the strength of our network. It's all the places that that network can take us. A lot of the investments that we've made in virtualization management, a lot of the investments we've made around managing workloads inside data centers we control has really been a precursor to how we need to evolve the core of our network, and how our networking is becoming more software defined. We built and we launched, as I said before, CenturyLink Cloud which is a multi-tenant hosting environment. That has been a huge IT accelerator for us. As we've started to advance and start to figure out how do we manage virtualization inside the core of our points of presence on the network, and as our network starts to expand, as most folks know, we're in the closing stages of the announced acquisition of level three, as that transaction completes and the whole network gets even stronger, and now we have more software assets to be able to drive even further into the core of that network. So it starts from the network and everything we do from either a cloud neutral or multi-cloud perspective is really around helping customers at the workload layer to really thicken that network value proposition. >> I'm also excited about the whole notion of competing on the edge. And once you have a network of this scale, and the ability to then distribute, compute, either on the edge, consult in the back, or even leverage third party probably clouds, seamlessly with a high bandwidth, low jitter network. I think that's a foundational infrastructure that's needed. These guys have really done a good job of kind of bringing that to bear. Pretty excited about that opportunity. >> Ajay, wondering if you can give us a little color on service providers. When I go to most service providers, most of them, networking key strength, obviously we know CenturyLink, Telco, all that kind of background. Management layer. Most service providers build their own. So there's a lot of pieces now, when I see the cloud foundation suite and they're embracing it. How did you work through some of those, "Hey, no, we've got our way of doing things. We know better." As opposed to embracing them. Where is that give and take? >> I think what's happening is, depending on the sophistication of the service provider, the larger ones have the ability to kind of create a bare metal service, kind of drive higher automation, have the infrastructure spend to drive that. As you go a little bit down the market, they're really looking for "a cloud in a box". You and I spoke about this last year, right? They want an easy to type experience for the end customers without the cost and the complexity of building one. So my opportunity as a service provider business is, how do I give them that platform? That multi-tenant platform that can cover resources? But in the future, elastically leverage a VMware cloud on AWS, right, as an endpoint that they can start to use for geo distribution, DR, or simply new capacity. So we're going to see a world where they're going to start mixing and matching what they build, what they buy and how they drive that. And the management solution around that, around a high performance network, is going to be the future that I see together. >> So one of the buzzwords over the past few year in the industry has been the invisible infrastructure. This concept that infrastructure should be something that people use and don't see. How does CenturyLink help support, not necessarily making an invisible infrastructure, but this concept that this is something we use and don't see. From the network, to the software layer that we're now talking about. Where's the differentiating value that CenturyLink brings versus me rolling my own? >> Yeah, I think where we've been making most of our investments, and where we've been driving and focusing on success for our customers has been up at that managed services and application layer. The way we view the infrastructure layer of the stack ... When we think of stacks, we think of the network at the base level of the foundation, data center infrastructure at the next tier up and then workloads and applications. It's not a groundbreaking tiered model, but it's helped me kind of think and organize a lot of what's in our business. When it comes to the infrastructure layer, as I said before, we're in a highly interoperable posture with a lot of the other partner clouds, because our network can link us there pretty seamlessly, and because we still know how to orchestrate enough at the infrastructure layer. But the investment has really been inside the core of the network, as we start driving that virtualization capabilities into the core, and then up at the workload layer, what we're really trying to work around is creating, as in all computer science problems, an abstraction layer. The trick about an abstraction layer in our part of the world, and in our part of the industry is not creating one that creates a new layer of lock in. That allows each of the individual underpinning infrastructure venues to do their thing, and do what they're good at. We build that abstraction layer with the idea of a best execution venue mindset that lets each of those individual underpinning infrastructure offerings, whether its the VCF architecture or hosted up on AWS, or whether it's one of the other particular software platforms because of geography or performance, or service capabilities that they're good at. The trick of creating an abstraction layer is not locking anybody in or reducing those platforms to lowest common denominator. So what our cloud application manager offering being able to manage our private cloud based on VCF, as well as manage other environments down the road ... That's really where we try to make that infrastructure invisible is to sort of create a lightweight abstraction layer that they can think more at the workload layer than at the individual nuts and bolts layer. >> The great thing about creating an abstraction layer, when you own the underlying infrastructure, it makes it a lot easier to support. So I want to make sure that I understand this concept from the ground up. You talked about the network as being the glue or the foundation that ties all this together, especially with the level three acquisition. From an ILT perspective, if I need those far flung services I have the physical network capability to get it there. If I need to put (data terminology) in at the edge, we just had a guest on talking about (data terminology), and at the edge. And get that data into a CenturyLink data center using VCF to get it there and consistently have that same level of abstraction, and then I can build cloud native applications on Azure, Google Compute... (cross talking) and it's a consistent experience across that whole abstraction layer. >> Right. Right. Going back to that idea that, what we call the hybrid IT stack of network infrastructure and workloads, what we're trying to build is a platform that spans those layers, that doesn't try to own or be one or indifferentiate at one of those layers, is build a connective tissue that spans them, so a workload running on the right infrastructure venue connected to the right networks. We're investing in orchestration that crosses all of that, and it's really some of the great conversations we've been having this week with VMware about what they're thinking, we think PTS is interesting because container based deployment models are going to be what makes the most sense as you get further into the core of the network and out towards the edge. We think Pulse is interesting. As we start to do more things in our smart cities, and smart venue type of initiatives, that we're doing at the Internet Of Things solutions base as well. >> Ajay, last thing I want to get to is when you look at your partners, how do you see them? Both that similarity that they're going to have, but how do they differentiate, and also how will they participate in the VMware on AWS piece that we've been talking about? >> Yes, so I think I'll break it into two parts. As I talk to customers, the consistent feedback I get is we made resource consumption ubiquitous. And we're hoping to standardize that with VMware Cloud Foundation and other approaches. What's hard is the experienced skillset and knowledge of how to use this technology. So increasingly we're constrained with the folks who know how to take this complexity, put an organized plan together, and drive the set of value in our own applications. So I believe the cloud provider program and the partnership is really about moving up from trying to build infrastructure, to build solutions, and offer value to our partners. And the differentiation is really moving up stack in terms that manage services value. The second part is- They themselves now have a choice. If I'm a regional player, or customer who, everyone's a multinational nowadays, you always have some customer who happens to reach beyond the boundaries ... How do I now go into a new market? How can I leverage VMware Cloud on AWS as another data center? So the management technology we're trying to provide is we will priority manage your endpoint, customer endpoint, or even VMware Cloud. You mix and match what makes business sense. Then abstract the complexity. As we talked about the cloud as a new hardware. How do we take that infrastructure and really make it easy? And the issues are on security, management, are going to be different ... So, application usage, value added services, being able to leverage resources, build or buy is really the basis of our strategy. >> Yep. So we're excited to ... As we know that that program starts to expand a little bit more in 2018 and we've had some early discussions with the VMware team around what that starts to look like, but at our most foundational level, because what we're already launching and what we launched here this week at VMware is just what we call our dedicated cloud compute product, which is now based on the VMware Cloud Foundation reference architecture. It's going to look the exact same as the VMware Cloud Foundation architecture that runs in AWS. Our approach towards managing both is to let their own individual control panels do what they do best, but then manage over the top of it with our cloud application manager service. >> Dave and Ajay. Thank you so much for sharing with us all the updates. Look forward to watching the continued maturation and development of what's happening in the cloud environment. >> Great chat, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Keith Townsend and I will be back with lots more coverage here of VMworld 2017. You're watching theCUBE. (electronic music)

live from the mandalay bay convention center in las vegas it's the cues covering vmworld 2016 rock you buy vmware and its ecosystem sponsors welcome back everyone we're live here in las vegas for vmworld 2016 where the mandalay bay convention center in the hang space winding down day three of three days of wall-to-wall coverage been a great vmworld i got to say it's been one of the best ever i've been to in the past seven years with the cube and a lot of great announcements i'm john ford's costume in this week and the two sets coming to an end our next guest final guest is a GF it tells the senior vice president of product development for vmware cloud services business unit welcome to the q great to see you thanks here great to be here I'm glad you spent the time to come on board here and talk to us so they had a lot of things going on it's been a cloudy picture these days and VMware certainly with the cloud strategy but also clearly in pat's keynote on Monday opening day and certainly Smoove announcements answer from Sanjay putin and others you see that coalescing around what the cloud strategy is for VMware it's not to have their own public cloud but to really be that cross cloud connector correct architectural II like Lego blocks are all snapping together nsx viste and all this that's working together so take a minute to just talk about which products that you guys have other in this new cloud business unit so first of all thank you for the opportunity i run a business unit we form last year called cloud providers software business unit the only reason for my existence now is to make software for service providers VMware last year made the shift from being our cloud service for let ourselves we cloud air to being enabling other cloud providers to build VMware base clouds and the result of the world the great work will be doing is vmware called foundation vmware car foundation is that packaging of compute network storage virtualized to build any cloud and IBM is an example of a week other network partner who is building out a vmware base cloud using the american foundation so think about the cloud and network as our distribution channel for standing up and delivering VMware IP for building clouds through their cloud services the two things the roots of VMware software-based absolutely and partnering absolutely you gotta say hey you know what do we go all in on cloud get distracted or do we go back to our roots data center right and let the cloud game play out that you have some time for a lot of your customers aren't fully going to public loud and they are in different forms absolutely absolutely a cloud needed startup life so I'll give an example right I have 4,200 service providers in might be caught our network 119 countries 99.5 percent temp covered with partners who have their capital deployed using VMware technology with their unique managed services show me one other cloud that's built on any other technology that has a scale this reach these kinds of services that's really what we call it a network is all about it's a big chest move I want you to just I'm going to ask it again so we can get it on camera here describe what the vCloud air network is yes so vCloud air network is 4,200 service providers in 119 countries delivering VMware compatible cloud the epitome of that is someone who's delivering a complete cloud built on vmware cloud foundation but many of my partners have vSphere base clouds vSphere plus NSX and when they take all the components of software-defined data center integrate them that's we can wear my cloud foundation and IBM is an example who said we're all in we're going to give you a full data center in minutes using VMware cloud foundation early in October announced a similar partnership with OVH Oviatt can stand up a STD see on demand in 60 minutes think about it your data center in 60 minutes on a public cloud fully compatible watch what you're running on from this is huge so AJ I'm wondering if you can for audience kind of give us a little compared and contrasted Oh VMware's really dominant in the enterprise data center you're talking about a you know a nice software stack that goes in the service providers would be it with the azure stack that Microsoft's talking about bringing out next year you know there's some similarities absolutely competitive yeah but the beauty for me 15 million Williams about fifteen percent of them are going to move to the cloud what's the simplest way for a customer take a VMware we em and move it to a public cloud our customers want to get other data center business they don't want to get out of vmware they want a private cloud experience in a public cloud setting and get it on demand VMware offers that with the stack we offered with vmware cloud foundation great well you know one of the you know interesting dynamics to watch in this vmware ecosystem is kind of the changing role in the channel now the channel has been critically important to you know really the beginning days of vmware um you know service providers is who you're working at you talk about kind of that dynamic there's some part of the channel that really understands cloud some are turning in service writers some work with service providers what do you see happening what's happening inside out so you know the marketplace of solution providers of ours we used to sell software and set it up and on Prem a service provider with a cloud holster and I called sis Oh who's trying to provide consulting or managed services on third-party cloud that's all blurring right my focus at the bu is on those guys building clouds but also reselling third-party services so the market is moving between build a cloud high-margin tap into third-party cloud services and deliver a complete cloud experience to our customers CPS be you might be you is really focused on those 4,200 service providers delivering that on the go-to-market side were shifting the company from a perpetual company to a subscription sales company so everything I do is subscription-based what we haven't told the market is weak area network is a couple hundred million dollar subscription business for us we grew twenty five percent year-on-year ten percent quarter-on-quarter this is huge you know there's a mid-year that everything is going to public cloud the reality is everything is going to a VMware managed cloud delivered through a week later Network well if those service providers can attract the onboarding of new customers absolutely the question we just thought with module earlier is that you know I look at like the iPhone the iPhone came out a whole new generation of that came on the iphone that was a growth spurt so if you look at all net new companies going starting right they'll probably start native on the cloud correct will they have a role for VMware absolutely as they're going to probably want to interface via their cloud all right so let's take your typical enterprise how much percentage of the development is net new development how much percent of the budget goes to net new app development don't know less than ten percent in a typical organization unless your netflix or uber and that is your business that is your budget so anywhere from five to fifty traditional enterprise about ten traditional enterprise correct right so ninety percent of the workload what customers saying is I want to be out of the data center business I want to free up that cost so i can put more money for net new development when they do that they first want to move to a public cloud hopefully a vmware managed service private cloud and then they're saying let me add new application with containers cloud service etc so i don't think it's VMware losses and the public clouds win it's an extension this is why we introduced cross cloud services yeah we're expecting customers to use public mega clouds and these VMware clouds in a mix-and-match manner tell me an example so let's just say that Amazon doesn't want to play ball with you guys or Azure and they kind of get let me stay tuned on that one by the way I know that so Pat Pat's answer was we just you know sling api's around we'll do it that way so you could have a lightweight in to interface with API like get that so if they kind of don't play ball if they do hope you sneering that they might that's going to be important to have that use my view is the cloud is a new hardware we will make our software available on as many clouds as we make possible and where we don't our valuable move beyond compute to add value in the air security management right governance visibility we don't need them to open up the api's you already have api's that's the design center we need to add value on top VMware always has been a management company a delivery company for optimizing workloads the new hardware is a cloud vm will continue i'd value on top so aj one of the concerns i'd heard from the really the vmware partners on vCloud air was how do they differentiate how do they make money so did tell us with vCloud air network and cloud foundation you know what is the answer so what we're doing is we're leveling the playing field of VMware IP that we had in vCloud air and our on prem and making available to everyone every partner differentiates itself in a different way so when i go to a soft layer they're differentiating on their bare metal service their compliance their GTS service when you go to OVH they're providing a soft service developer cloud as well as they were to go after the mid-market very cost-effectively when you go to a skyworks they're doing on security and compliance every one of them has their unique IP and their managed services there is no one-size-fits-all they are differentiating and they're all growing all growing north of thirty percent which is a great you know the market is really evolving and people are finding that niche as they go after this business what I love about vmworld this year is the competitive strategy 3d chess game going on with the VMware exec it is plus the clarity absolutely other the back to the roots back to the roots of the roots on software back to the data center and looking at that future but in the cloud I think you got some time my opinion you have time to catch up to what how that hardware game plays out as you say but the question on the software you mentioned your job is to is to do software right the role of the developers will be the canary in the coal mine yes how do you guys look at the developer community because if they all flock dude as Pat calls amazon the developer cloud right how are you guys going to engage the developer community has that fit of your plans oh uh Greg I just got my IBM friend sent me their forest a report for IBM was rated as the number one developer car for enterprise here's an example of bluemix cognitive services all being pulled in running on a vmware cloud our strength is they're taking the best of breed ecosystem making sure that the workload then lands on a vmware cloud I don't think what a developer company amex Oracle I know what it takes to build a java community and we're not going to get there on our own and working with Cabernet DS for the container imposter manager that's the strategy we support those working with Cloud Foundry I'm the treasurer of our foundry it's about enabling the ecosystem we hide Dirk as an open source leader it's about embracing the open source community bringing the communities to VMware was just trying to create our own so that's hardcore for you the national strategy absolutely the case of central of our strategy we've been Switzerland we won the game we continue wanted to be Switzerland and attract the marketplace that's awesome and one final question your big takeaway as you leave vm world this year all the conversations you talk to customers here's a very customer centric very impressed with the customers doing a lot of talking here and seeing like people going to relieve they can see the clarity and the strategy and kind of how the products are fitting together and certainly the integration I was very strong this year what's your takeaway for for you to go back to the ranch and talk to your your team and your colleagues I think the excitement is really the customer momentum we have the number of conversations were having with customers their plans to start adopting it I had an IBM rep called me and saying who's the VMware rep I can call because all the stuff i saw i want to bring vmware into my accounts so a channel is pulling for us yeah we're in a great position I'm really excited for the name it brings back to either VMware that was that independent absolutely no software work with everyone the hardware vendors brought us even in the weekend were optimizing their the infrastructure we believe the similarly the service providers the system integrators they need an a VMware landing pad and when Herod had a great line on the cube yesterday when I asked you know what is take on vmware is and we were riffing he was thinking out loud and he said something pretty profound he said vmware is always in their DNA has always been to solve complex problems make them simplify and create an abstraction layer this audience of this cloud networks interesting you're creating a cloud abstraction layer in the power of numbers I love numbers and that is a competitive move against the the Amazon Web Services and Azure tell me 119 countries who has data centers there I do all right without a single penny out of my pocket okay cloud is the new hardware according to AJ AJ thank you for spending time wrapping up vmworld for us this year thank you thanks for being here again and we'll talk more about cloud foundry as we'd love cloud foundry so that's the cube I'm John Force too many men wrapping up vmworld day three thanks for watching all the videos are up on youtube.com slash SiliconANGLE of course code SiliconANGLE com so going on TV and Wikibon calm for all the best research thanks for watching our coverage of vmworld 2016

it's the cube covering vmworld 2015 brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem sponsors and now your host dave vellante welcome back to vmworld 2015 we're here at moscone north this is the cube the cube goes out we extract the signal from the noise Brian Gracie and I are really thrilled we have a jay patel here is the senior vice president of product development for VMware cloud services the future I love it yeah great to see you thanks for coming on the cube appreciated thanks so big event here we saw Monday the announcement of you know the hybrid cloud the strategy you laying out a lot of vision it's a lot of products that you can get today a lot that you know have a little road map to them but huge crowd would think the number is Robin told us yesterday 23,000 absolutely great energy so congratulations how do you feel feel great he'll be tired to feel great the excitement the momentum it's really great conversation with customers partners it's been a good VMO how have you spent your time here you do in customer meetings presentations no it's a lot of press interviews for presentations a lot of service provider meetings I'm also responsible with bill for the vCloud air network business mm-hmm it's refreshing to see that we've kind of struck the right balance between having our own service but also enabling our service provider community so so what so talk about the scope of your responsibility so I work for Bill father's I'm part of the vcard survey because air our cloud services be you we have two roles we are a proud provide ourselves which is vCloud air with products or presence in the North America amia Japan and the latest edition big Australia so in this case we're standing up a VMware operated cloud and we're running that we also provide all our IP that we build for a cloud we make that available to our service provider partners we have 4,000 service provider partners who leverage VMware technology to run a VMware power cloud so for us success is delivering on both fronts VMV cloud air as a business but also VMware power cloud and owning the public cloud market with vmware technology that's really my juicy responsible for for strategy the auto service you want P&L absolutely so with Bill I'm responsible for running the service ov powder and then my partner Jeff waters works for bill is responsible to be cloudier network where we take my software and monetize that to the ricotta and not work to help them power their car as well okay so you made native announcements this week maybe you could take us through those and in fact you know what why don't we back up can you kind of give us the journey of we caught the offering yeah absolutely so we caught there a two-year-old service when we first started you know North America predominantly with three data centers we extended to five we added our FedRAMP certified data centers so on one scale we started to provide the geographic reach we opened our UK data center than Germany joint venture with Softbank and then a joint venture with Telstra for Australia in Japan so we've got the geographic reach we were able to kind of serve directly 1880 some odd percent of the core cloud market so let's hear one cloud markets in the regions there we're going native in those market as a service provider we also then took our technology which is vcd which is we cloud director and we're just rolling out an announcement of our 80 product this quarter which is our cloudstack our on-demand platform our cloud platform make that available to our service provider partners and with the rest of the partners there 99 percent coverage of the global cloud market today so VMware today are pretty proud to say you can get a VMware cloud service anywhere in the world ninety-nine percent come so what about the reactions to what was announced this week you know I think from the tech weenies in us we love the remotion across on frame and public cloud that that applause of having the vm move from on prem live into a week where a couple of customers say you know what I've been asking that for three years it's good to see you finally delivering on that a hard technology problem but that was probably the most sexy announcement if you will from a technology perspective on the second side it's all about containers in in that example I'll ask Pat because I asked him to square the circle for me I don't if you heard this question whereas you would always here for instance joe tucci and paul gill senior talk about the advantage that the hyper scalars had because of homogeneity right yet you've said your strategy is to manage heterogeneous cloud environment so how do we do that and Pat's point was well for certain things we have to have homogeneity and I'm presuming that demo is one where you've got to have homogeneity to me the world is going to be about what I call compatibility right how do I make sure that I have a compatible cloud and it's going to be infrastructure compatibility and then more importantly application compatible if I cannot make my application workload portables how I'm going to move the workload to where I needed to run so that big technical challenges are making the workload portable at the infrastructure level because of the hypervisor and some of the work we've done on NSX etc we're making the infrastructure programmable and abstracting away the workload from the infrastructure we're decoupling the binding of the application and the infrastructure from the physical infrastructure and then the next step is how do I make it easily available on any cloud which is the work we're sorry important when you announced the offering four years ago you made a big deal that look we are going to share the IP with our ecosystem you really laid down that commit we got a lot of questions about it absolutely probably got some heat too but but how has that worked out how is it at all you know give us a passing grade I think we could do better then I'll be honest where we've done a great job as we've invested in the people we come up with something called a V cloud technology kit we've taken our best practices and how to build it we release vcd 80 which is a capability but our customers one that we motion capably tomorrow so that lag between us having something we demo to getting the hands of service provider we need a string that time so the work we need to put in place is really delivering and agility and the speed by which they can absorb this technology and stand up in their own cloud environment the area we've done better is we've made made possible new program called an MSP program I managed services provider program where smaller cloud provider doesn't want to stand up their own card can resell a week loud air service so it's it's I would say a good passing rate more work to be done yeah you know one of the big themes this week is one cloud it's any application anybody in one cloud that one cloud for you is not only you know vCloud air it's the vCloud air work helped us understand how big is the vCloud air network not just the number of partners because everybody's got lots of partners but you know put it in proportion how we know roughly how big vCloud air is that the VMware runs what is what is that partner network look like is it is it the typical 8020 model where eighty percent of that business is what does it look like how big is that so so I don't have the exact numbers to share but if I were to do a back of the napkin I'm going to speculate right I would say the vCloud air network plus B cloud air together it's probably bigger or as big as a or someone like the in a public cloud market it's a significant public cloud presence if we're not number two or number three from overall public cloud market spin so let's assume it's a 50 billion dollar market span I would say let's say you know Amazon's thirty percent of it the next twenty percent of it is a week loud air network+ vCloud air it's of that size and scale representative it's a major provider so in the mix today vCloud air is growing fast and it's a big portion but the numbers will always be I believe we cut our network will be a bigger portion than vCloud air at any given time but the whole pillars need to grow in paralyzer market is exploding am I correct that the differentiation really is kind of what you talked about monday is the ability to take that huge install base right that you have and enable it to do what the vision of the promise of the hybrid cloud has always been I mean it nobody else really does that I mean amazon refuses to do that right microsoft kind of has trying to do that you know so maybe can do that at some point and that's really your wheelhouse can you talk about the difference yes so what when we first started our first customers would kick our tires right and they would use it for dev tests and they say you know this stuff looks pretty good they said what if I take some of my vm that are not protected and protect them in avocado and we started to see dr really take off for that was kind of a killer use case now I T is being asked to really look at not building out any more data center spaces they're saying guys we cannot afford to build infrastructure and a natural choice for IT as they're starting to come into the age of cloud is who's the best choice i'm already using vmware on prem the starting to think about a data center extension use case or data center replacement use case they're looking at vcloud as a strategic loud so the exciting news for this week has been the number of customers saying in the next two years I want to be out of the data center business you're on my destination cloud let's solve those hybrid use cases to move data between VMs between the clouds is really what we're seeing the most exciting part so it's that ease of moving workloads is really exciting with so it's SiliconANGLE Wikibon we have some experience we have a you know the crowd chat relationship crowd chat forum is an app that's like it we used to run it and you know Nicole oh that's it by our own servers and it was a nightmare so we decided to go to the club we went to Amazon and our developers you know took some time to get it up there was painful right but once it was up and running it worked well so we have some experience with the various clouds and one of the things we found cuz people always does for SiliconANGLE and the Cuban is hey we should run in our cloud and when we go to investigate we find that certain things aren't there you know things like elastic Beanstalk aren't mature or you know other little things are just in beta etc I wonder if you could give us an indication of how mature any cloud air is from that standpoint you know and how you can you know expect what gives you confidence that you can compete with that pace that Amazon you know we often get dinged in terms of the breadth of capably amazon offer it is pretty impressive the rate at which they're innovating very impressive when you go back to the enterprise workloads and look at the customer use cases they probably 10 or 15 services that are critical the two big gaps we had was we didn't have a database service RDS we didn't have an RDS competitor out there we just announced sequel air this week we didn't have a good object service if you're starting to build something natively in the cloud in an object service the video start to bridge these key gaps with doing that today and Gartner has a metric whether measure the ayahs capability of each of the vendors I'm happy to say that if we were to benchmark today were ahead of Google right behind a jour to be capable wise a complete I aspect in in the what some people would call the pass piece of that that database as a service is part of the interpreters a service is that right so we're starting to add these application services it's my background come from Oracle Iran Oracle's middleware business we're starting to build both organically our services but more importantly vmware is a partner friendly company our customers want their best to breed on vs to work in the cloud so the service is like Jenkins for continuous integration as a service they want to use perforce if that's the source code management system to be available as a repository of recovery so our strategy is to enable our isp ecosystem make them available so you won't see everything coming from the VMware factory but the ecosystem will deliver best of class solutions and services on Macleod air both those are the mounts work is an interesting you know workload I mean you have demand from customers that mean certainly have a working order we were one of the first to say virtualize Oracle with VMware oh damn the torpedoes and work there were a lot of interest there unfortunately Oracle has the licensing practices it forces them and more in a dedicated environment so we can support Oracle but unfortunately because of the right system restriction we have to set them in a dedicated cloud you need specialized hardware to run oracle now that now they may relax that over time I mean it's been their practice in the past to do that all right i mean so you would expect it as there are customers today use two things either leave the data on Prem and take the web tier in the front end and then connect back to to database like Oracle sometimes they're just moving out at Oracle using a my sequel cluster to run their web scale websites open that's the choice though that larry has to make it a point of which the customer says okay if you want to lock me into the hole or call approach at the risk of losing my database business and then if that happens then Oracle will loosen up on those recover that's how that work will behave the customers will drive them you're ready to catch him with what do you what do you think so so if i looked back at amazon web services two years in only a couple of services a handful of them you guys are two years in you know handful of services but if i look at who their customers say it's it's directly focused on developers i mean they're going after developers the number of services they come out i mean it's 10 15 20 30 a year how do you who is your customer what's your developer story because right now i mean if i'm talking about moving VMS there's not a developer on the planet who cares about moving in vm how do you talk to a developer and get them to come to your so let's address both sides so we definitely our IT focus and we have an inside-out strategy when its IT driven it's about moving workloads from on-prem to cloud when you have a developer conversations about building that new applications the application environment in the enterprise is not just about green field but off for an application extension I want to add a mobile front end to my enterprise application in front of my sa fie my ERP system etc we've announced mobile backend service for example as a service on top of each other so we're starting to provide those selective use cases where our customers our enterprise IT developers if you will that's our target it's the enterprise IT developer who's looking to put a mobile front end was looking to build a digital experience that's integrated back into the into the use case and you saw the hybrid extension use case and we talked about is really what's driving this so developer story driven by a customer demand around mobile as a spearhead and building the rich set of service so we've been talking about this a little bit this week and we had a good discussion with Pat about it he's like look is the the the are the operations guys you know or the developers really want to become operations guys it's really a lot of your guys are really ops dev right supporting the developer community that's what you're trying to do is enable suppose it's both providing them the frameworks and the tools so in the new develop and it's not about building an application ground up its composing applications taking services and putting them together and we're offering those services but also giving them the tool chain to build new application than an agile way so I guess it has to be both right because you're trying to expand your tan absolutely new areas how do you how do you take advantage of all the assets in the Federation I mean we had rodney rogers on from virtustream he was talking about you know going after SI p and maybe you you don't need just one cloud you can use multiple you announced an object service but it's not based on emc we have an object service with emc as well right both why we have the clout you know the cloud foundry service you know I can I can install it but I can't get it why isn't the Federation stuff tighter why isn't it going faster I mean it is in the Federation you will see this accelerate and I think we if you look at the last year in terms of where progress has been made EMC object service available today our data protection built on albemarle so very strong leverage around that in the pillow case most of our customers use paths for private cloud that's been the design center we have a pws enterprises you the multi-tenant cloud that tends to be more a trial code so we're really about the enterprise customer and the enterprise customers saying hey give me a dedicated pass on frame or ricotta we support that well they're not asking for our multi-tenant kind of engine yard or Uhuru coo that's not our base that tends to be the smaller developer where again focused on the enterprise mark so what's a typical customer scenario like you guys you get a hardcore VMware customer and you start talking to them about the opportunities for hybrid cloud I'll give you three or four different one is to give you the breadth of them right the simple use case if it's an IT operations driven one it's driven around data center migration it's around data sent extension we have the likes of large University that that's looking to complete shut down our data center and move into that so that's kind of a data center use case we have Columbia sports or we're looking at how harley-davidson harley-davidson has the entire dealer network the point of sale system running on vCloud air we have likes of betfair they built an application is more cloud native that dynamically when you were betting and you're right at the last minute you need a spike up capacity their application seamlessly spawns into week our air takes capacity and delivers that that's a cloud native application that's built around that so we see the spread breath off from everything from data center use cases extension capacity on demand use cases all the way to dev test use cases dr to really cloud native applications in that span the spectrum with mobile being the newest addition we have farmers who starting to build a mobile app you so the my vmware ab that you're using today for vmworld that's running on vCloud air using our mbaise service so we're starting to get covered an entire spectrum of enterprise use cases today yeah I've and I you know just just as a piece of i mean i would i would say the ability for you guys to tell that story right now it comes across as being vmware centrum you know very vm sin infrastructure centric you're allowing the rest of the cloud industry to sort of define for you what that is so if that's really your story if your customers are saying look I have a ton of applications you may want to extend them to mobile but I want to want to move them for data center and that's a huge space you know we are forecast even out until 2016 only say that public cloud becomes a third there's a huge amount of enterprise applications that need to go somewhere you know move forward somehow and they need to know what how to help with that so I leave you with that if you have s ap as a workload and you can move the workload on frame or cloud and then extend the workload with mobile any great SI p to Salesforce this is direction where we're going you saw the keynote it had mobile front and center it showed a demo of a mobile app that's been this is clearly move VMware moving from infrastructure to application services extending the reach beyond just infrastructure capacity building that new digital application at Sunday's experience at Sanjay's background so AJ what last question what keeps you up at night not not personal stuff but business you know what keeps me up at night is really how do we scale this business even faster how do i meet the demand my challenges that moved from getting customers to scaling the service fast enough to support the customer the conversation had with some of my customers today they would want to move thousands of vm in the next six months how do we ramp up so quickly how do we support them how do we advise them how do we get this scale going so the challenge is going to be how do we scale quickly I mean that is the floodgates are starting to open up more critical you got demand on the one hand I'm competition the other you've got the scale and you of course you know you don't have that lock in at the top end of the apps layer so you know that game well absolutely she's got skill so his delivery is awesome a great conversation really appreciate you coming so much appreciate you meeting you thank you so much I keep rising everybody will be back to wrap vmworld 2015 right after this you

(bright music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome back to live coverage day two or day one, day two for theCUBE, day one for the event. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. It's the keynote analysis segment. Adam just finished coming off stage. I'm here with Dave Vellante and Zeus Kerravala, with principal analyst at ZK Research, Zeus, it's great to see you. Dave. Guys, the analysis is clear. AWS is going NextGen. You guys had a multi-day analyst sessions in on the pre-briefs. We heard the keynote, it's out there. Adam's getting his sea legs, so to speak, a lot of metaphors around ocean. >> Yeah. >> Space. He's got these thematic exploration as he chunked his keynote out into sections. Zeus, a lot of networking in there in terms of some of the price performance, specialized instances around compute, this end-to-end data services. Dave, you were all over this data aspect going into the keynote and obviously, we had visibility into this business transformation theme. What's your analysis? Zeus, we'll start with you. What's your take on what Amazon web service is doing this year and the keynote? What's your analysis? >> Well, I think, there was a few key themes here. The first one is I do think we're seeing better integration across the AWS portfolio. Historically, AWS makes a lot of stuff and it's not always been easy to use say, Aurora and Redshift together, although most customers buy them together. So, they announce the integration of that. It's a lot tighter now. It's almost like it could be one product, but I know they like to keep the product development separately. Also, I think, we're seeing a real legitimization of AWS in a bunch of areas where people said it wasn't possible before. Last year, Nasdaq said they're running in the cloud. The Options Exchange today announced that they're going to be moving to the cloud. Contact centers running the cloud for a lot of real time voice. And so, things that we looked at before and said those will never move to the cloud have now moved to the cloud. And I think, my third takeaway is just AWS is changing and they're now getting into areas to allow customers to do things they couldn't do before. So, if you look at what they're doing in the area of AI, a lot of their AI and ML services before were prediction. And I'm not saying you need an AI, ML to do prediction, was certainly a lot more accurate, but now they're getting into generative data. So, being able to create data where data didn't exist before and that's a whole new use case for 'em. So, AWS, I think, is actually for all the might and power they've had, it's actually stepping up and becoming a much different company now. >> Yeah, I had wrote that post. I had a one-on-one day, got used of the transcript with Adam Selipsky. He went down that route of hey, we going to change NextGen. Oh, that's my word. AWS Classic my word. The AWS Classic, the old school cloud, which a bunch of Lego blocks, and you got this new NextGen cloud with the ecosystems emerging. So, clearly, it's Amazon shifting. >> Yeah. >> But Dave, your breaking analysis teed out the keynote. You went into the whole cost recovery. We heard Adam talk about macro at the beginning of his keynote. He talked about economic impact, sustainability, big macro issues. >> Yeah. >> And then, he went into data and spent most of the time on the keynote on data. Tools, integration, governance, insights. You're all over that. You had that, almost your breaking analysis almost matched the keynote, >> Yeah. >> thematically, macro, cost savings right-sizing with the cloud. And last night, I was talking to some of the marketplace people, we think that the marketplace might be the center where people start managing their cost better. This could have an impact on the ecosystem if they're not in in the marketplace. So, again, so much is going on. >> What's your analogy? >> Yeah, there's so much to unpack, a couple things. One is we get so much insight from theCUBE community plus your sit down 101 with Adam Selipsky allowed us to gather some nuggets, and really, I think, predict pretty accurately. But the number one question I get, if I could hit the escape key a bit, is what's going to be different in the Adam Selipsky era that was different from the Jassy era. Jassy was all about the primitives. The best cloud. And Selipsky's got to double down on that. So, he's got to keep that going. Plus, he's got to do that end-to-end integration and he's got to do the deeper business integration, up the stack, if you will. And so, when you're thinking about the keynote and the spirit of keynote analysis, we definitely heard, hey, more primitives, more database features, more Graviton, the network stuff, the HPC, Graviton for HPC. So, okay, check on that. We heard some better end-to-end integration between the elimination of ETL between Aurora and Redshift. Zeus and I were sitting next to each other. Okay, it's about time. >> Yeah. >> Okay, finally we got that. So, that's good. Check. And then, they called it this thing, the Amazon data zones, which was basically extending Redshift data sharing within your organization. So, you can now do that. Now, I don't know if it works across regions. >> Well, they mentioned APIs and they have the data zone. >> Yep. And so, I don't know if it works across regions, but the interesting thing there is he specifically mentioned integration with Snowflake and Tableau. And so, that gets me to your point, at the end of the day, in order for Amazon, and this is why they win, to succeed, they've got to have this ecosystem really cranking. And that's something that is just the secret sauce of the business model. >> Yeah. And it's their integration into that ecosystem. I think, it's an interesting trend that I've seen for customers where everybody wanted best of breed, everybody wanted disaggregated, and their customers are having trouble now putting those building blocks together. And then, nobody created more building blocks than AWS. And so, I think, under Adam, what we're seeing is much more concerted effort to make it easier for customers to consume those building blocks in an easy way. And the AWS execs >> Yeah. >> I talked to yesterday all committed to that. It's easy, easy, easy. And I think that's why. (Dave laughing) Yeah, there's no question they've had a lead in cloud for a long time. But if they're going to keep that, that needs to be upfront. >> Well, you're close to this, how easy is it? >> Yeah. >> But we're going to have Adrian Cockcroft (Dave laughing) on at the end of the day today, go into one analysis. Now, that- >> Well, less difficult. >> How's that? (indistinct) (group laughing) >> There you go. >> Adrian retired from Amazon. He's a CUBE analyst retiree, but he had a good point. You can buy the bag of Lego blocks if you want primitives >> Yeah. >> or you can buy the toy that's glued together. And it works, but it breaks. And you can't really manage it, and you buy a new one. So, his metaphor was, okay, if the primitives allow you to construct a durable solutions, a lot harder relative to rolling your own, not like that, but also the simplest out-of-the box capability is what people want. They want solutions. We call Adam the solutions CEO. So, I think, you're going to start to see this purpose built specialized services allow the ecosystem to build those toys, so that the customers can have an out-of-the box experience while having the option for the AWS Classic, which is if you want durability, you want to tune it, you want to manage it, that's the way to go for the hardcore. Now, can be foundational, but I just see the solutions things being very much like an out-of-the-box. Okay, throw away, >> Yeah. >> buy a new toy. >> More and more, I'm saying less customers want to be that hardcore assembler of building blocks. And obviously, the really big companies do, but that line is moving >> Yeah. >> and more companies, I think, just want to run their business and they want those prebuilt solutions. >> We had to cut out of the keynote early. But I didn't hear a lot about... The example that they often use is Amazon Connect, the call center solution. >> Yeah. >> I didn't hear a lot to that in the keynote. Maybe it's happening right now, but look, at the end of the day, suites always win. The best of breed does well, (John laughing) takes off, generate a couple billion, Snowflake will grow, they'll get to 10 billion. But you look at Oracle, suites work. (laughs) >> Yeah. >> What I found interesting about the keynote is that he had this thematic exploration themes. First one was space that was like connect the dot, the nebula, different (mumbles) lens, >> Ocean. >> ask the right questions. (Dave laughing) >> Ocean was security which bears more, >> Yeah. >> a lot more needed to manage that oxygen going deep. Are you snorkeling? Are you scuba diving? Barely interesting amount of work. >> In Antarctica. >> Antarctica was the performance around how you handle tough conditions and you've got to get that performance. >> Dave: We're laughing, but it was good. >> But the day, the Ocean Day- >> Those are very poetic. >> I tweeted you, Dave, (Dave laughing) because I sit on theCUBE in 2011. I hate hail. (Dave laughing) It's the worst term ever. It's the day the ocean's more dynamic. It's a lot more flowing. Maybe 10 years too soon, Dave. But he announces the ocean theme and then says we have a Security Lake. So, like lake, ocean, little fun on words- >> I actually think the Security Lake is pretty meaningful, because we were listening to talk, coming over here talking about it, where I think, if you look at a lot of the existing solutions, security solutions there, I describe 'em as a collection of data ponds that you can view through one map, but they're not really connected. And the amount of data that AWS holds now, arguably more than any other company, if they're not going to provide the Security Lake, who is? >> Well, but staying >> Yeah. >> on security for a second. To me, the big difference between Azure and Amazon is the ecosystem. So, CrowdStrike, Okta, Zscaler, name it, CyberArk, Rapid7, they're all part of this ecosystem. Whereas Microsoft competes with all of those guys. >> Yes. Yeah. >> So it's a lot more white space than the Amazon ecosystem. >> Well, I want to get you guys to take on, so in your reaction, because I think, my vision of what what's happening here is that I think that whole data portion's going to be data as code. And I think, the ecosystem harvests the data play. If you look at AWS' key announcements here, Security Lake, price performance, they're going to optimize for those kinds of services. Look at security, okay, Security Lake, GuardDuty, EKS, that's a Docker. Docker has security problems. They're going inside the container and looking at threat detection inside containers with Kubernetes as the runtime. That's a little nuance point, but that's pretty significant, Dave. And they're now getting into, we're talking in the weeds on the security piece, adding that to their large scale security footprint. Security is going to be one of those things where if you're not on the inside of their security play, you're probably going to be on the outside. And of course, the price performance is going to be the killer. The networking piece surprise me. Their continuing to innovate on the network. What does that mean for Cisco? So many questions. >> We had Ajay Patel on yesterday for VMware. He's an awesome middleware guy. And I was asking about serverless and architectures. And he said, "Look, basically, serverless' great for stateless, but if you want to run state, you got to have control over the run time." But the point he made was that people used to think of running containers with straight VMs versus Fargate or Knative, if you choose, or serverless. They used to think of those as different architectures. And his point was they're all coming together. And it's now you're architecting and calling, which service you need. And that's how people are thinking about future architectures, which I think, makes a lot of sense. >> If you are running managed Kubernetes, which everyone's doing, 'cause no one's really building it in-house themselves. >> No. >> They're running it as managed service, skills gaps and a variety of other reasons. This EKS protection is very interesting. They're managing inside and outside the container, which means that gives 'em visibility on both sides, under the hood and inside the application layer. So, very nuanced point, Zeus. What's your reaction to this? And obviously, the networking piece, I'd love to get your thought. >> Well, security, obviously, it's becoming a... It's less about signatures and more of an analytics. And so, things happen inside the container and outside the container. And so, their ability to look on both sides of that allows you to happen threats in time, but then also predict threats that could happen when you spin the container up. And the difficulty with the containers is they are ephemeral. It's not like a VM where it's a persistent workload that you can do analysis on. You need to know what's going on with the container almost before it spins up. >> Yeah. >> And that's a much different task. So, I do think the amount of work they're doing with the containers gives them that entry into that and I think, it's a good offering for them. On the network side, they provide a lot of basic connectivity. I do think there's a role still for the Ciscos and the Aristas and companies like that to provide a layer of enhanced network services that connects multicloud. 'Cause AWS is never going to do that. But they've certainly, they're as legitimate network vendor as there is today. >> We had NetApp on yesterday. They were talking about latency in their- >> I'll tell you this, the analyst session, Steven Armstrong said, "You are going to hear us talk about multicloud." Yes. We're not going to necessarily lead with it. >> Without a mention. >> Yeah. >> But you said it before, never say never with Amazon. >> Yeah. >> We talk about supercloud and you're like, Dave, ultimately, the cloud guys are going to get into supercloud. They have to. >> Look, they will do multicloud. I predict that they will do multicloud. I'll tell you why. Just like in networking- >> Well, customers are asking for it. >> Well, one, they have the, not by design, but by defaulter and multiple clouds are in their environment. They got to deal with that. I think, the supercloud and sky cloud visions, there will be common services. Remember networking back in the old days when Cisco broke in as a startup. There was no real shortest path, first thinking. Policy came in after you connected all the routers together. So, right now, it's going to be best of breed, low latency, high performance. But I think, there's going to be a need in the future saying, hey, I want to run my compute on the slower lower cost compute. They already got segmentation by their announcements today. So, I think, you're going to see policy-based AI coming in where developers can look at common services across clouds and saying, I want to lock in an SLA on latency and compute services. It won't be super fast compared to say, on AWS, with the next Graviton 10 or whatever comes out. >> Yeah. >> So, I think, you're going to start to see that come in. >> Actually, I'm glad you brought Graviton up too, because the work they're doing in Silicon, actually I think, is... 'Cause I think, the one thing AWS now understands is some things are best optimized in Silicon, some at software layers, some in cloud. And they're doing work on all those layers. And Graviton to me is- >> John: Is a home run. >> Yeah. >> Well- >> Dave, they've got more instances, it's going to be... They already have Gravitons that's slower than the other versions. So, what they going to do, sunset them? >> They don't deprecate anything ever. So, (John laughing) Amazon paid $350 million. People believe that it's a number for Annapurna, which is like one of the best acquisitions in history. (group laughing) And it's given them, it's put them on an arm curve for Silicon that is blowing away Intel. Intel's finally going to get Sapphire Rapids out in January. Meanwhile, Amazon just keeps spinning out new Gravitons and Trainiums. >> Yeah. >> And so, they are on a price performance curve. And like you say, no developer ever wants to run on slower hardware, ever. >> Today, if there's a common need for multicloud, they might say, hey, I got the trade off latency and performance on common services if that's what gets me there. >> Sure. >> If there's maybe a business case to do that. >> Well, that's what they're- >> Which by the way, I want to.... Selipsky had strong quote I thought was, "If you're looking to tighten your belt, the cloud is the place >> Yeah. >> to do it." I thought >> I tweeted that. >> that was very strong. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I think, he's right. And then, the other point I want to make on that is, I think, I don't have any data on this, but I believe believe just based on some of the discussions I've had that most of Amazon's revenue is on demand. Paid by the drink. Those on demand customers are at risk, 'cause they can go somewhere else. So, they're trying to get you into optimized pricing, whether it's reserved instances or one year or three-year subscriptions. And so, they're working really hard at doing that. >> My prediction on that is that's a great point you brought up. My prediction is that the cost belt tightening is going to come in the marketplace, is going to be a major factor as companies want to get their belts tighten. How they going to do that, Dave? They're going to go in the marketplace saying, hey, I already overpaid a three-year commitment. Can I get some cohesively in there? Can I get some of this or that and the other thing? >> Yep. >> You're going to start to see the vendors and the ecosystem. If they're not in the marketplace, that's where I think, the customers will go. There are other choices to either cut their supplier base or renegotiate. I think, it's going to happen in the marketplace. Let's watch. I think, we're going to watch that grow. >> I actually think the optimization services that AWS has to help customers lower spend is a secret sauce for them that they... Customers tell me all the time, AWS comes in, they'll bring their costs down and they wind up spending more with them. >> Dave: Yeah. >> And the other cloud providers don't do that. And that has been almost a silver bullet for them to get customers to stay with them. >> Okay. And this is always the way. You drop the price of storage, you drop the price of memory, you drop the price of compute, people buy more. And in the question, long term is okay. And does AWS get commoditized? Is that where they're going? Or do they continue to thrive up the stack? John, you're always asking people about the bumper sticker. >> Hold on. (John drowns out Dave) Before we get the bumper sticker, I want to get into what we missed, what they missed on the keynote. >> Yeah, there are some blind spots. >> I think- >> That's good call. >> Let's go around the horn and think what did they miss? I'll start, I think, they missed the developer productivity angle. Supply chain software was not talked about at all. We see that at all the other conferences. I thought that could have been weaved in. >> Dave: You mean security in the supply chain? >> Just overall developer productivity has been one of the most constant themes I've seen at events. Who are building the apps? Who are the builders? What are they actually doing? Maybe Werner will bring that up on his last day, but I didn't hear Adam talk about it all, developer productivity. What's your take in this? >> Yeah, I think, on the security side, they announced security data lake. I think, the other cloud providers do a better job of providing insights on how they do security. With AWS, it's almost a black hole. And I know there's a careful line they walk between what they do, what their partners do. But I do think they could be a little clearer on how they operate, much like Azure and GCP. They announce a lot of stuff on how their operations works and things like that. >> I think, platform across cloud is definitely a blind spot for these guys. >> Yeah. >> I think, look at- >> But none of the cloud providers have embraced that, right? >> It's true. >> Yeah. >> Maybe Google a little bit >> Yeah. >> and Microsoft a little bit. Certainly, AWS hasn't at this point in time, but I think, they perceive the likes of Mongo and Snowflake and Databricks, and others as ISVs and they're not. They're platform players that are building across clouds. They're leveraging, they're building superclouds. So, I think that's an opportunity for the ecosystem. And very curious to see how Amazon plays there down the stream. So, John, what do you think is the bumper sticker? We're only in day one and a half here. What do you think so far the bumper sticker is for re:Invent 2022? >> Well, to me, the day one is about infrastructure performance with the whole what's in the data center? What's at the chip level? Today was about data, specialized services, and security. I think that was the key theme here. And then, that's going to sequence into how they're going to reorganize their ecosystem. They have a new leader, Ruba Borno, who's going to be leading the charge. They've integrated all their bespoke fragmented partner network pieces into one leadership. That's going to be really important to hear that. And then, finally, Werner for developers and event-based services, micro services. What that world's going on, because that's where the developers are. And ultimately, they build the app. So, you got infrastructure, data, specialized services, and security. Machine learning with Swami is going to be huge. And again, how do developers code it all up is going to be key. And is it the bag of Legos or the glued toy? (Dave chuckles) So, what do you want? Out-of-the-box or you want to build your own? >> And that's the bottom line is connecting those dots. All they got to be is good enough. I think, Zeus, to your point, >> Yep. >> if they're just good enough, less complicated, the will keep people on the base. >> Yeah. I think, the bumper stickers, the more you buy, the more you're saving. (John laughing) Because from an operational perspective, they are trying to bring down the complexity level. And with their optimization services and the way their credit model works, I do think they're trending down that path. >> And my bumper sticker's ecosystem, ecosystem, ecosystem. This company has 100,000 partners and that is a business model secret weapon. >> All right, there it is. The keynote announced. More analysis coming up. We're going to have the leader of (indistinct) coming up next, here on to break down their perspective, you got theCUBE's analyst perspective here. Thanks for watching. Day two, more live coverage for the next two more days, so stay with us. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante and Zeus Kerravala here on theCUBE. Be right back. (bright music)