>>Welcome back everyone to Cube's live coverage, VMware Explorer, 2022 formerly world. I've been saying now I gotta get that out. Dave, I've been sayingm world. It just kind of comes off the tongue when I'm tired, but you know, wall to wall coverage, again, back to back interviews all day two sets. This is a wrap up here with the analyst discussion. Got one more interview after this really getting the analyst's perspective around what we've been hearing and seeing, observing, and reporting on the cube. Again, two sets blue and green. We call them here on the show floor on Moscone west with the sessions upstairs, two floors of, of amazing content sessions, keynote across ed Moscone, north and south SBI here, cloud strategists with the cube. And of course, what event wouldn't be complete without SBE weighing in on the analysis. And, and, and I'm, you know, all kidding aside. I mean that because we've had great interactions around, you know, digging in you, you're like a roving analyst out there. And what's great about what you do is you're social. You're communicating, you're touching everybody out there, but you're also picking up the puzzle pieces. And we, you know, of course we recognize that cuz that's what we do, but you're out, we're on the set you're out on the floor and you know your stuff and, and you know, clouds. So how you, this is your wheelhouse. Great to see you. Good to >>See you. I'm good guys. Thank you. Thank you for having >>Me. So I mean, Dave and I were riffing going back earlier in this event and even before, during our super cloud event, we're reminded of the old OpenStack days. If you remember, Dave OpenStack was supposed to be the open source version of cloud. And that was a great ambition. And the cloud AATI at that time was very into it because it made a lot of sense. And the vision, all the infrastructure was code. Everything was lined up. Everything was religiously was on the table. Beautiful cloud future. Okay. 20 2009, 2010, where was Amazon? Then they just went off like a rocket ship. So cloud ended up becoming AWS in my opinion. Yeah. OpenStax then settled in, did some great things, but also spawns Kubernetes. Okay. So, you know, we've lived through thiss we've seen this movie. We were actually in the trenches on the front lines present at creation for cloud computing. >>Yeah. I was at Rackspace when the open stack was open sourced. I was there in, in the rooms and discussions and all that. I think OpenStack was given to the open source like prematurely. I usually like we left a toddler on the freeway. No, the toddler >>Got behind the wheel. Can't see over the dashboard. >>So we have learned over the years in last two decades, like we have seen the open source rise of open source and we have learned quite a few lessons. And one lesson we learned from there was like, don't let a project go out in the open, tell it mature enough with one vendor. So we did that prematurely with NASA, NASA and Rackspace gave the, the code from two companies to the open source community and then likes of IBM and HPE. No. Now HPE, they kind of hijacked the whole thing and then put a lot of developers on that. And then lot of us sort of second tier startup. >>But, but, but I remember not to interject, but at that time there wasn't a lot of pushback for letting them it wasn't like they infiltrated like a, the vendors always tried to worry about vendors coming in open source, but at that time was pretty people accepted them. And then it got off the rails. Then you remember the great API debate. You >>Called it a hail Mary to against AWS, which is, is what it was, what it was. >>It's true. Yeah. Ended up being right. But the, the battle started happening when you started seeing the network perimeters being discussed, you starting to see some of the, in the trenches really important conversations around how to make essentially cross cloud or super cloud work. And, and again, totally premature it continue. And, and what does that mean today? So, okay. Is VMware too early on their cross cloud? Are they, is multi-cloud ready? >>No >>For, and is it just vaporware? >>No, they're not too early, actually on, on, on, on that side they were premature to put that out there, but this is like very mature company, like in the ops area, you know, we have been using, we VMware stuff since 2000 early 2000. I, I was at commerce one when we started using it and yeah, it was for lab manager, you know, like, you know, put the labs >>Out desktop competition. >>Yeah, yeah. Kind of thing. So it, it matured pretty fast, but now it it's like for all these years they focused on the op site more. Right. And then the challenge now in the DevOps sort of driven culture, which is very hyped, to be honest with you, they have try and find a place for developers to plug in on the left side of the sort of whole systems, life cycle management sort of line, if you will. So I think that's a, that's a struggle for, for VMware. They have to figure that out. And they are like a tap Tansu application platform services. They, they have released a new version of that now. So they're trying to do that, but still they are from the sort of get ups to the, to the right, from that point to the right on the left side. They're lot more tooling to helpers use as we know, but they are very scattered kind of spend and scattered technology on the left side. VMware doesn't know how to tackle that. But I think, I think VMware should focus on the right side from the get ups to the right and then focus there. And then how in the multi-cloud cross cloud. >>Cause my sense is, they're saying, Hey, look, we're not gonna own the developers. I think they know that. And they think they're saying do develop in whatever world you want to develop in will embrace it. And then the ops guys, we, we got you covered, we got the standards, we have the consistency and you're our peeps. You tend then take it, you know, to, to the market. Is that not? I mean, it seems like a viable strategy. I >>Mean, look at if you're VMware Dave and start, you know, this where they are right now, the way they missed the cloud. And they had to reboot that with jazzy and, and, and Raghu to do the databases deal. It's essentially VMware hosted on AWS and clients love it cuz it's clarity. Okay. It's not vCloud air. So, so if you're them right now, you seeing yourself, wow. We could be the connective tissue between all clouds. We said this from day one, when Kubernetes was hitting in the scene, whoever can make this, the interoperability concept of inter clouding and connect clouds so that there could be spanning of applications and data. We didn't say data, but we said, you know, creating that nice environment of multiple clouds. Okay. And again, in concept, that sounds simple, but if you're VMware, you could own that abstraction layer. So do you own it or do you seed the base and let it become a defacto organization? Like a super layer, super pass layer and then participate in it? Or are you the middleware yourself? We heard AJ Patel say that. So, so they could be the middleware for at all. >>Aren't they? The infrastructure super cloud. I mean, that's what they're trying to be. >>Yeah. I think they're trying, trying to do that. It's it's I, I, I have said that many times VMware is bridged to the cloud, right? >>The sorry. Say bridge to >>The cloud. Yeah. Right. For, for enterprises, they have virtualized environments, mostly on VMware stacks. And another thing is I wanna mention touch on that is the number of certified professionals on VMware stack. There it's a huge number it's in tens of thousands. Right? So people who have got these certifications, they want to continue that sort of journey. They wanna leverage that. It's like, it's a Sunco if they don't use that going forward. And that was my question to, to during the press release yesterday, like are there new certifications coming into the, into the limelight? I, I think the VMware, if they're listening to me here somewhere, they will listen. I guess they should introduce a, a cross cloud certification for their stack because they want to be cross cloud or multi-cloud sort of vendor with one sort of single pane. So does actually Cisco and so do many others. But I think VMware is in a good spot. It's their market to lose. I, I, I call it when it comes to the multi-cloud for enterprise, especially for the legacy applications. >>Well, they're not, they have the enterprise they're super cloud enabler, Dave for the, for the enterprise, cuz they're not hyperscaler. Okay. They have all the enterprise customers who come here, we see them, we speak to them. We know them will mingle, but >>They have really good relationships with all the >>Hyperscale. And so those, those guys need a way to the cloud in a way that's cloud operation though. So, so if you say enterprises need their own super cloud, I would say VMware might wanna raise their hands saying we're the vendor to provide that. Yes, totally. And then that's the middleware role. So middleware isn't your classic stack middleware it's middle tissue. So you got, it's not a stack model anymore. It's completely different. >>Maybe, maybe my, my it's >>Not a stack >>Industry. Maybe my industry super cloud is too aspirational, but so let's assume for a second. You're not gonna have everybody doing their own clouds, like Goldman Sachs and, and capital one, even though we're seeing some evidence of that, even in that case, connecting my on-prem to the cloud and modernizing my application stack and, and having some kind of consistency between your on-prem and it's just call it hybrid, like real hybrid, true hybrid. They should dominate that. I mean, who is who, if it's not it's VMware and it's what red hat who else? >>I think red hat wants it too. >>Yeah. Well, red hat and red, hat's doing it with IBM consulting and they gotta be, they have great advantage there for all the banks. Awesome. But what, what about the other 500,000 customers that are >>Out there? If VMware could do what they did with the hypervisor, with virtualization and create the new thing for super cloud, AKA connecting clouds together. That's a, that's a holy grail move right >>There. But what about this PA layer? This Tansu and area which somebody on Twitter, there was a little SNAR come that's V realized just renamed, which is not. I mean, it's, it's from talking to Raghu unless he's just totally BSing us, which I don't think he is. That's not who he is. It's this new federated architecture and it's this, their super PAs layer and, and, and it's purpose built for what they're trying to do across clouds. This is your wheelhouse. What, what do you make of that? >>I think Tansu is a great effort. They have put in lot of other older products under that one umbrella Tansu is not a product actually confuses the heck out of the market. That it's not a product. It's a set of other products put under one umbrella. Now they have created another umbrella term with the newer sort of, >>So really is some yeah. >>Two >>Umbrella on there. So it's what it's pivotal. It's vRealize it's >>Yeah. We realize pivotal and, and, and older stack, actually they have some open source components in there. So, >>So they claim that this ragus claim, it's this new architecture, this new federated architecture graph database, low latency, real time ingestion. Well, >>AJ, AJ that's AJ's department, >>It sounded good. I mean, this is that >>Actually I think the newer, newer stuff, what they announced, that's very promising because it seems like they're building something from scratch. So, >>And it won't be, it won't be hardened for, but, but >>It won't be hardened for, but, >>But those, but they have a track record delivering. I mean, they gotta say that about yeah. >>They're engineering focus company. They have engineering culture. They're their software engineers are top. Not top not, >>Yes. >>What? >>Yeah. It's all relatives. If they, if the VMware stays the way they are. Well, >>Yeah, >>We'll get to that a second. What >>Do you mean? What are you talking >>About? They don't get gutted >>The elephant in the room if they don't get gutted and then, then we'll see it happens there. But right now I love, we love VMware. We've been covering them for 12 years and we've seen the trials, not without their own issues to work on. I mean, everyone needs to work on stuff, but you know, world class, they're very proud of their innovation, but I wanna ask you, what was your observations walking around the floor, talking to people? What was the sense of the messaging? Is it real in their minds? Are they leaning in, are they like enthused? Are they nervous, apprehensive? How would you categorize the attitude of the folks here that you've talked to or observed? >>Yeah. It at the individual product level, like the people are very confident what they're building, what they're delivering, but when it comes to the telling a cohesive story, if you go to all the VMware booth there, like it's hard to find anybody who can tell what, what are all the services under tens and how they are interconnected and what facilities they provide or they can't. They, I mean, most of the people who are there, they can are walking through the economic side of things, like how it will help you save money or, or how the TCR ROI will improve. They are very focused on because of the nature of the company, right. They're very focused on the technology only. So I think that that's the, that's what I learned. And another sort of gripe or negative I have about VMware is that they have their product portfolio is so vast and they are even spreading more thinly. And they're forced to go to the left towards developers because of the sheer force of hyperscalers. On one side on the, on the right side, they are forced to work with hyperscalers to do more like ops related improvements. They didn't mention AI or, or data. >>Yeah. Data storage management. >>That that was weak. That's true. During the, the keynote as well. >>And they didn't mention security and their security story, strong >>Security. I think they mentioned it briefly very briefly, very briefly. But I think their SCO story is good actually, but no is they didn't mention it properly, I guess. >>Yeah. There wasn't prominent in the keynote. It was, you know, and again, I understand why data wasn't P I, they wanted to say about data, >>Didn't make room for the developer story. I think this was very much a theatrical maneuver for Hawk and the employee morale and the ecosystem morale, Dave, then it had to do with the nuts bolt of security. They can come back to get that security. In my opinion, you know, I, I don't think that was as bad of a call as bearing the vSphere, giving more demos, which they did do later. But the keynote I thought was, was well done as targeted for all the negative sentiment around Broadcom and Broadcom had this, the acquisition agreement that they're, they are doing, they agree >>Was well done. I mean, >>You know, if I VMware, I would've done the same thing, look at this is a bright future. We're given that we're look at what we got. If you got this, it's on you. >>And I agree with you, but the, the, again, I don't, I don't see how you can't make security front and center. When it is the number one issue for CIOs, CSOs, CSOs boards or directors, they just, it was a miss. They missed it. Yeah. Okay. And they said, oh, well, there's only so much time, but, and they had to put the application development focus on there. I get that. But >>Another thing is, I think just keynote is just one sort of thing. One moment in this whole sort of continuous period, right. They, I think they need to have that narrative, like messaging done periodically, just like Amazon does, you know, like frequent events tapping into the practitioners on regional basis. They have to do that. Maybe it's a funding issue. Maybe it is some weakness on the, no, >>I think they planning, I talked to, we talked to the CMO and she said, Explorer is gonna be a road show. They're gonna go international with, it's gonna take a global, they're gonna have a lot of wood behind the arrow. They're gonna spend a lot of money on Explorer is what, they're, what we're seeing. And that's a good thing. You got a new brand, you gotta build it. >>You know, I would've done, I would've had, I would've had a shorter keynote on day one and doing, and then I would've done like a security day, day two. I would've dedicated the whole morning, day two keynote to security cuz their stories I think is that strong? >>Yeah. >>Yeah. And I don't know the developers side of things. I think it's hard for VMware to go too much to the left. The spend on the left is very scattered. You know, if you notice the tools, developers change their tools on freaking monthly basis, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's hard to sustain that they on the very left side and the, the, the >>It's hard for companies like VMware to your point. And then this came up in super cloud and ins Rayme mentioned that developers drive everything, the patterns, what they like and you know, the old cliche meet them where they are. You know, honestly, this is kind of what AJ says is the right they're doing. And it's the right strategy meeting that develops where they are means give them something that they like. They like self-service they like to try stuff. They like to, they don't like it. They'll throw it away. Look at the success that comes like data, dog companies like that have that kind of offering with freemium and self-service to, to continue the wins versus jamming the tooling down their throat and selling >>Totally self-serve infrastructure for the, in a way, you know, you said they missed cloud, which they did V cloud air. And then they thought of got it. Right. It kind of did the same thing with pivotal. Right. It was almost like they forced to take pivotal, you know, by pivotal, right. For 2 billion or whatever it was. All right. Do something with it. Okay. We're gonna try to do something with it and they try to go out and compete. And now they're saying, Hey, let's just open it up. Whatever they want to use, let 'em use it. So unlike and I said this yesterday, unlike snowflake has to attract developers to build on their unique platform. Okay. I think VMware's taken a different approach saying use whatever you want to use. We're gonna help the ops guys. And that, to me, a new op >>Very sensitive, >>The new ops, the new ops guys. Yes. Yes. >>I think another challenge on the right right. Is on, on the op site is like, if, if you are cloud native, you are a new company. You just, when you're a startup, you are cloud native, right. Then it's hard for VMware to convince them to, Hey, you know, come to us and use this. Right. It's very hard. It is. They're a good play for a while. At least they, they can prolong their life by innovating along the way because of the, the skills gravity, I call it of the developers and operators actually that's their, they, they have a loyal community they have and all that stuff. And by the way, the name change for the show. I think they're trying to get out of that sort of culty kind of nature of the, their communities that they force. The communities actually can force the companies, not to do certain things certain way. And I've seen that happening. And >>Well, I think, I think they're gonna learn and they already walked back their messaging. Not that they said anything overtly, but you know, the Lori, the CMO clarified this significantly, which was, they never said that they wanted to replace VM world. Although the name change implies that. And what they re amplified after the fact is that this is gonna be a continuation of the community. And so, you know, it's nuanced, they're splitting hairs, but that's, to me walking back the, you know, the, the loyalty and, and look at let's face it. Anytime you have a loyal community, you do anything of change. People are gonna be bitching and moaning. Yeah. >>But I mean, knew, worked, explore, >>Work. It wasn't bad at all. It was not a bad look. It wasn't disastrous call. Okay. Not at all. I'm critical of the name change at first, but the graphics are amazing. They did an exceptional job on the branding. They did, did an exceptional job on how they handled the new logo, the new name, the position they, and a lot of people >>Showed >>Up. Yeah. It worked >>A busy busier than all time >>It worked. And I think they, they threaded the needle, given everything they had going on. I thought the event team did an exceptional job here. I mean, just really impressive. So hats up to the event team at, at VMware pulling off now, did they make profit? I don't know. It doesn't matter, you know, again, so much going on with Broadcom, but here being in Moscone west, we see people coming down the stairs here, Dave's sessions, you know, lot of people, a lot of buzz on the content sold out sessions. So again, that's the ecosystem. The people giving the talks, you know, the people in the V brown bag, you know, got the, the V tug. They had their meeting, you know, this week here, >>Actually the, the, the red hat, the, the integration with the red hat is another highlight of, of, they announced that, that you can run that style >>OpenShift >>And red hats, not here, >>Red hat now here, but yeah, but, but, but >>It was more developers, more, you know, >>About time. I would say, why, why did it take so long? That should >>Have happened. All right. Final question. So what's the bottom line. Give us the summary. What's your take, what's your analysis of VMware explore the event, what they did, what it means, what it's gonna mean when the event's over, what's gonna happen. >>I think VMware with the VMware Explorer have bought the time with the messaging. You know, they have promised certain things with newer announcements and now it, it, it is up to them to deliver that in a very sort of fast manner and build more hooks into other sort of platforms. Right? So that is very important. You cannot just be closed system people. Don't like those systems. You have to be part of the ecosystem. And especially when you are sitting on top of the actually four or four or more public clouds, Alibaba cloud was, they were saying that they're the only VMware is only VMware based offering in mainland China on top of the Alibaba. And they, they can go to other ones as well. So I think, especially when they're sitting on top of other cloud providers, they have to build hooks into other platforms. And if they can build a marketplace of their own, that'll be even better. I think they, >>And they've got the ecosystem for it. I mean, you saw it last night. I mean, all the, all the parties were hopping. I mean, there was, there's >>A lot of buzz. I mean, I pressed, I pressed them Dave hard. I had my little, my zingers. I wanted to push the buttons on one question that was targeted towards the answer of, are they gonna try to do much more highly competitive maneuvering, you know, get that position in the middleware. Are they gonna be more aggressive with frontal competitiveness or are they gonna take the, the strategy of open collaborative and every single data point points to collaborative totally hit Culbert. I wanna do out in the open. We're not just not, we're not one company. So I think that's the right play. If they came out and said, we're gonna be this, you know? >>Yeah. The one, the last thing, actually, the, the one last little idea I'm putting out out there since I went to the Dell world, was that there's a economics of creation of software. There's economics of operations of software. And they are very good on the operation economics of operations side of things that when I say economics, it doesn't mean money only. It also means a productivity practitioner, growth. Everything is in there. So I think these vendors who are not hyperscalers, they have to distinguish these two things and realize that they're very good on the right side economics of operations. And, and that will go a long way. Actually. I think they muddy the waters by when DevOps, DevOps, and then it's >>Just, well, I think Dave, we always we've had moments in time over the past 12 years covering VMware's annual conference, formally world now floor, where there were moments of that's pat Gelsinger, spinal speech. Yeah. And I remember he was under a siege of being fired. Yeah. There was a point in time where it was touch and go, and then everything kind of came together. That was a moment. I think we're at a moment in time here with VMware Dave, where we're gonna see what Broadcom does, because I think what hop 10 and Broadcom saw this week was an EBI, a number on the table that they know they can probably get or squeeze. And then they saw a future value and net present value of future state that you could, you gotta roll back and do the analysis saying, okay, how much is it worth all this new stuff worth? Is that gonna contribute to the EBITDA number that they want on the number? So this is gonna be a very interesting test because VMware did it, an exceptional job of laying out that they got some jewels in the oven. You >>Think about how resilient this company has been. I mean, em, you know, EMC picked them up for a song. It was 640 million or whatever it was, you know, about the public. And then you, another epic moment you'll recall. This was when Joe Tuchi was like the mafia Don up on stage. And Michael Dell was there, John Chambers with all the ecosystem CEOs and there was Tucci. And then of course, Michael Dell ends up owning this whole thing, right? I mean, when John Chambers should have owned the whole thing, I mean, it's just, it's been incredible. And then Dell uses VMware as a piggy bank to restructure its balance sheet, to pay off the EMC debt and then sells the thing for $60 billion. And now it's like, okay, we're finally free of all this stuff. Okay. Now Broadcom's gonna buy you. And, >>And if Michael Dell keeps all in stock, he'll be the largest shareholder of Broadcom and own it off. >>Well, and that's probably, you know, that's a good question is, is it's gonna, it probably a very tax efficient transaction. If he takes all stock and then he can, you know, own against it. I mean, that's, that's, >>That's what a history we're gonna leave it there. Start be great to have you Dave great analysis. Okay. We'll be back with more coverage here. Day two, winding down after the short break.

[Music] from San Francisco it's the covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat everyone welcome back is the cubes live coverage here in San Francisco Red Hat summit 2018 I'm Sean furry co-host of the cube with my coasts analyst this week John Troyer who's the co-founder of tech reckoning advisory and Community Development firm our next guess is red hash Balakrishnan is the general manager of OpenStack for Red Hat welcome to the cube good to see you ready to be here so OpenStack is very hot obviously with the with the with the trends we've been covering from day one been phenomenal to watch that grow and change but with kubernetes you seeing cloud native to robust communities you got application developers and you got under the hood infrastructure so congratulations and you know what's what's the impact of that what is how is OpenStack impacted by the cloud native trend and what is Red Hat doing they're the best epidermis ation of that is openshift on OpenStack if you had caught the keynotes earlier today there was a demo that we did whereby they were spawning open shifts on bare metal using OpenStack and then you run open shift on power that's what we kind of see as the normed implementation for customers looking to get - I want an open infrastructure on Prem which is OpenStack and then eventually want to get to a multi cloud application platform on top of it that makes up the hybrid cloud right so it's a essential ingredient to the hybrid cloud that customers that are trying to get to and open shifts role in this is what I'm assuming we are asked about openshift ownerships will be multi cloud from a application platform perspective right so OpenStack is all about the infrastructure so as long as you're worrying about info or deployment management lifecycle that's going to be openstax remet once you're thinking about applications themselves the packaging of it the delivery of it and the lifecycle of it then you're in openshift land so how do you bring both these things together in a way that is easier simpler and long-standing is the opportunity and the challenge in front of us so the good news is customers are already taking us there and there's a lot of production workflow is happening on OpenStack but I got to ask the question that someone might ask who hasn't been paying attention in a year or so it was thick hey OpenStack good remember that was what's new with OpenStack what would you say that person if they asked you that question about what's new with OpenStack the answer would be something along the lines of boring is the new normal right we have taken the excitement out of OpenStack you know the conversations are on containers so OpenStack has now become the open infrastructure that customers can bring in with confidence right so that's kind of the boring Linux story but you know what that's what we thrive on right our job as reddit is to make sure that we take away the complexities involved in open source innovation and make it easy for production deployment right so that's what we're doing with OpenStack too and I'm glad that in five years we've been able to get here I definitely I think along with boring gos clarity right last year the cube was that OpenStack summit will be there again in two weeks so with you and I enjoy seeing you again for it the last year there was a lot of you know containers versus there was some confusion like where people got sorted out in their head oh this is the infrastructure layer and then this is the a play I think now people have gotten it sorted out in their head open open shipped on OpenStack very clear message so a meaning of the community in two weeks in any comments on the growth of the open OpenStack community the end users that are there the the depth of experience it seemed like last year was great everywhere for OpenStack on the edge it ended you know set top devices and pull top devices all the way to OpenStack in in private data centers and and for various security or logistical reasons where is OpenStack today yeah I think that he phrased would be workload optimization so OpenStack has now evolved to become optimized for various workloads so NFV was a workload that people were talking about now people are in when customers are in production across the globe you know beat Verizon or the some of the largest telcos that we have in any and a pack as well the fact that you can actually transform the network using OpenStack has become real today now the conversation is going from core of the data center to the edge which is radio networks so the fact that you can have a unified fabric which can transcend from data center all the way to a radio and that can be OpenStack is a you know great testament to the fact that a community has rallied around OpenStack and you know delivering on features that customers are demanding pouring is the new normal of that is boring implies reliable no-drama clean you know working if you had to kind of put a priority in a list of the top things just that it are still being worked on I see the job is never done with infrastructure always evolving about DevOps certainly shows that with programmability what are the key areas still on the table for OpenStack that are that are key discussion points where there's still innovation to be done and built upon I think the first one is it's like going from a car to a self-driving car how can we get that infrastructure to autonomously manage itself we were talking about network earlier even in that context how do you get to a implementation of OpenStack that can self manage itself so there's a huge opportunity to make sure that the tooling gets richer to be able to not just deploy manage but fine-tune the infrastructure itself as we go along so clearly you know you can call it AI machine learning implementation you on OpenStack to make sure that the benefit is occurring to the administrator that's an opportunity area the second thing is the containers and OpenStack that we taught touched upon earlier OpenShift on OpenStack in many ways is going to be the cookie cutter that we're gonna see everywhere there's going to be private cloud if you've got a private cloud it's gotta be an open shift or on OpenStack and if it's not I would like to know why right it's a it becomes a de-facto standard you start to have and they enablement skills training for a few folks as you talk to the IT consumer right the the IT admins out there you know what's the message in terms of upskilling and managing say an OpenStack installation and and what does Red Hat doing to help them come along yeah so those who are comfortable with Braille Linux skills are able to graduate easily over to OpenStack as well so we've been nationally focused on making sure that we are training the loyal Linux installed based customers and with the addition of the fact that now the learnings offerings that we have are not product specific but more at the level of the individual can get a subscription for all the products that reddit has you could get learning access to learning so that does help make sure that people are able to graduate or evolve from being able to manage Linux to manage a cloud and the and face the brave new world of hybrid cloud that's happening in front of our eyes but let's talk about the customer conversations you're having as the general manager of the stack red hat what what are the what's the nature of the conversations are they talking about high availability performance or is it more under the hood about open shift and containers or they range across the board depending upon the use cases whose they do range but the higher or the bit is that applications is where the focuses well closes where the focus is so the infrastructure in many ways needs to get out of the way to make sure that the applications can be moving from the speed of thought to execution right so that's where the customer conversations are going so which is kind of ties back to the boring is the new normal as well so if we can make sure that OpenStack is boring enough that all the energy is focused on developing applications that are needed for the enterprise then I think the job is done self-driving OpenStack it means when applications are just running and that self-healing concepts you were talking about automation is happening exactly that's the opportunity in front of us so you know it's by N's code by code we will get there I think I love the demo this morning which showed that off right bare metal stacks sitting there on stage from different vendors right actually you're the you know OpenStack is the infrastructure layer so it's it's out there with servers from Dell and HP II and others right and then booting up and then the demo with the with Amadeus showing you know OpenStack and public clouds with openshift all on top also showed how it fit into this whole multi cloud stack is it is it challenging to to be the layer with with the hardware hardware heterogeneous enough at this point that OpenStack can handle it are there any issues they're working with different OEMs and if you look at the history of red add that's what we've done right so the rel became rel because of the fact that we were able to abstract multi various innovation that was happening at the so being able to bring that for OpenStack is like we've got you know that's the right to swipe the you know employee card if you will right so I think the game is going back to what you were only talking about the game is evolving to now that you have the infrastructure which abstracts the compute storage networking etc how do you make sure that the capacity that you've created it's applied to where the need is most right for example if you're a telco and if you're enabling Phi G IOT you want to make sure that the capacity is closest to where the customer fool is right so being able to react to customer needs or you know the customers customers needs around where the capacity has to be for infrastructure is the programmability part that we've you know we can enable right so that's a fascinating place to get into I know you are technology users yourself right so clearly you can relate to the fact that if you can make available just enough technology for the right use case then I think we have a winner at hand yeah and taking as you said taking the complexity out of it also means automating away some of those administrative roles and moving to the operational piece of it which developers want to just run their code on it kind of makes things go a little faster and and so ok so I get that and I but I got to ask the question that's more Redhead specific that you could weigh in on this because this is a real legacy question around red hats business model you guys have been very strong with rel the the the record speaks for itself in terms of warranty and and serviceability you guys give like I mean how many years is it now like a zillion years that support for rel OpenStack is boring is Red Hat bringing that level of support now how many years because if I use it I'm gonna need to have support what's the Red Hat current model on support in terms of versioning xand the things that you guys do with customers thank you for bringing that up what have you been consciously doing is to make sure that we have lifecycle that is meeting two different customers segments that we are talking about one is customers who want to be with the latest and the greatest closer to the trunk so every six months there is an openstack released they want to be close enough they want to be consuming it but it's gotta be production ready in their environment the second set of customers are the ones who are saying hey look the infrastructure part needs to stay there cemented well and then every maybe a couple of years I'll take a real look at you know bringing in the new code to light up additional functionality or on storage or network etc so when you look at both the camps then the need is to have a dual life cycle so what we have done is with OpenStack platform 10 which is two years ago we have a up to five year lifecycle release so obvious that platform 10 was extensible up to five years and then every two releases from there 11 and 12 are for just one year alone and then we come back to again a major release which is OSP 13 which will be another five years I know it can be and they get the full Red Hat support that they're used to that's right so there are years that you're able to either stay at 10 or you could be the one who's going from 10 to 11 to 12 to 13 there are some customers were saying staying at 10 and then I won't go over to 13 and how do you do that we'll be a industry first and that's what we have been addressing from an engineering perspective is differentiated - I think that's a good selling point guy that's always a great thing about Red Hat you guys have good support give the customers confidence or not you guys aren't new to the enterprise and these kinds of customers so right - what are you doing here at the show red hat summit 2018 what's on your agenda what some of the hallway conversations you're hearing customer briefings obviously some of the keynote highlights were pretty impressive what going on for you it's a Volvo OpenShift on OpenStack that's where the current and the future is and it's not something that you have to wait for the reality is that when you're thinking about containers you might be starting very small but the reality is that you're going to have a reasonably sized farm that needs to power all the innovation that's going to happen in your organization so given that you need to have an infrastructure management solution thought through and implemented on day one itself so that's what OpenStack does so when you can roll out OpenStack and then on top of it bring in openshift then you not only have to you're not only taking care of today's needs but also as you scale and back to the point we were talking about moving the capacity where is needed you have a elastic infrastructure that can go where the workload is demanding the most attention so here's another question that might come up from when I asked you and you probably got this but I'll just bring it up anyway I'm a customer of OpenStack or someone kicking the tires learning about deploying up a stack I say ritesh what is all this cloud native stuff I see kubernetes out there what does that mean for me visa V OpenStack and all the efforts going on around kubernetes and above and the application pieces of the stack right let's say if you looked at the rear view mirror five years ago when we looked at cloud native as a contract the tendency was that hey look I need to be developing net new applications that's the only scenario where cloud native would be thought thought off now fast forward five years now what has happened is that cloud native and DevOps culture has become the default if you are a developer if you're not sort of in that ploughed native and DevOps then you are working on yesterday's problem in many ways so if digital transformation is urging organizations to drive - as cloud native applications then cloud native applications require an infrastructure that's fungible inelastic and that's how openshift on OpenStack again coming back to the point of that's the future that customers can build on today and moving forward so summarize I would say what I heard you saying periphery if I'm wrong open ship is a nice bridge layer or an up bridge layer but a connection point if you bet on open ship you're gonna have best of both worlds that that's a good summary and you gotta be you know betting on open first of all is the first order a bet that you should be making once you've bet on open then the question is you gotta bet on an infrastructure choice that's OpenStack and you gotta bet on an application platform choice that's open shift once you've got both of these I think then the question is what are you going to do with your spare time okay count all the cash you're making from all the savings but also choice is key you get all this choice and flexibility is a big upside I would imagine British thanks for coming on sharing your insight on the queue appreciate it thanks for letting us know what's going on and best of luck see you in Vancouver thank you for having okay so the cube live coverage here in San Francisco for Red Hat summit 2018 John four with John Troy you're more coverage after this short break

live from las vegas it's the cube covering discover 2016 las vegas brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise now you're your host John furrier and Dave vellante okay welcome back here and we are here live in Las Vegas for HP discover 2016 exclusive coverage from SiliconANGLE media's two cubes our flagship program we go out to the events and extract the signal noise i'm john / with my co-host dave allante and our next guest is Bobby Patrick CMO of the cloud enterprise group at HPE and Michael Loomis head of sales of global enterprise that at nuage networks pardon now part of Nokia that's right welcome back to the cube welcome for the first time thank you very much may the cube alumni club that's right it's bro my cabin I leave I gotta get a platinum membership now no VIP Thompson after six times you got we people want have a cube alumni event at these events so it's be fun next year like that we'll look at that yeah Bobby I want to get touch base on the cloud you also you'd run in the cloud group I Nokia's customer of you guys obviously HP everyone knows the history had the public cloud they kind of pivoted over and now you guys found your swim lane alright you to just take a minute right to clarify Andrey amplify what we talked about last and right I'm in London around HP's cloud strategy it's not like it's not define you guys have a clear line of sight right take a minute to just share your vision and the specifically the company's cloud strategy yeah thanks John it's great to be here again you know cloud is the catalyst for our customers transformation and our partners and got 24 here at discover onstage showcasing he lien at healing at work it up I've been there two years now and our cloud strategy couldn't be any more on fire and working this three prongs to it the first one is we want to help customers in a multi cloud world source manager consume cloud services across traditional IT private managed in public rightly so the azure partnership before we have dropbox now as well and others so we're demonstrating that second one is we want to partner with the leading technology so you mentioned the public cloud we used to have in the past now we're focused on that part of the right mix of our customers cloud strategy on public cloud partnerships so you see that Microsoft Azure specialty clouds like enter links around document collaboration you know doc Dropbox so all examples of demonstrating around partner clouds and the third one is we want to integrate our solutions with those clouds as well so managing that multi-cloud world is complex working with becomes like Nokia we're taking healing and healing OpenStack is giving Cloud Foundry we're layering on it called cloud orchestration which we now bundle as our healing Cloud suite today and we pull in public cloud we pull in manage private and traditional IT into one single solution for our customers so you mentioned as your and there's nothing in the announcements this morning that mention as yours that's the previous relationship right we announced our partners with as your last discover this one there's a number of announcements just showing it at work right our managed cloud broker offering cloud brokerage is a really big deal now for CIOs trying to manage a multi-cloud world now extends to azure so there's a lot of those announcements are going to see throughout discover with Azure and there's gonna be some other cloud announcements as well well we'll get to the eucalyptus AWS relationship kind of late if I wanted to ask you specifically around the strategy and how you see the cloud enabling delivery and on the opening i mentioned dave was asking about my views on HP's growth and I kind of use the story of back in the old days of the many computers this little laserjet attachment to walang system was a major growth engine for HP and the rest is history so we're kind of looking at the cloud and saying okay is IOT that bolt onto the cloud that is going to lift up where cloud becomes also pervasive like many computers and then distributed computing did how are you guys enabling things like IOT right because now the hybrid cloud public private data center right is integrating together right do you see that as an integration into the cloud and you enabling those kinds of things there's actually two big kind of growth axes that I think a report right one is you mentioned IOT so the number of devices connected the amount of data just huge orders of magnitude growth you got to actually drive costs down and things as well be part of that and so that's a big deal i would say universal platform that we announced as well healing is a back-end for that so massive scale on OpenStack on our cloud line service or other so you get that Maxim economics with new wash another spreading across multiple data centers for availability we have that platform for IOT but I think from a growth in March we look at the new hpe now right the lighter nimbler stronger when i layer on our security product security's number one concern our customers have going to go into cloud you know arcsight being able to do threat detection across a hybrid cloud right right the ability to do encryption with our data secure product right bringing in our big data products like Vertica for the column data store in our in our work around Hadoop or distributed are right when you get to bring those pieces into the fold right you begin to have the ability to add on top high-value software and services more of the stack you know obviously infrastructure across the bottom so what I see is us growing share of wallet growing our strategic relevance by both by both handling the massive amounts of data that's being generated supporting the connected world but also security managing that data big data fast data and providing that full stack on top and we're bringing all those pieces together but the past HP kind of have these siloed be use in a way right not anymore all these pieces are coming together and that's a big part of my my organization responsibility so Michael talked about where nuage fits in what's the relationship where do you guys add value so nuage is a what we call a software-defined networking product it's born out of some routing technology that we've had for a number of years we started our router products back in 2001 and we're number one or number two depending on the category and service provider edge routers and when you look at the the problem of scale out and flexibility in the cloud you need some complex network constructs that may not be ready of readily available in some of those cloud tools and obviously you can't go throw an expensive service provider edge router at that problem so what we did is we took that software use that as a SDN controller to manage the forwarding tables of the virtual switches or the namespace in the case of linux container integrated that into the distribution or a cloud system like Keely on and there you go you've got a stack that can scale out at the network layer and at the composite VMware killer yeah as a solution Kyle singer always talking about network and he's so proud of his acquisition of the stn player and the sierra which is a part of the vmware but dave and i always saw always saw that the network was the bottom that you seeing a rube out there yes pacifically talk about where the network piece fits in and why that's so important right now with cloud you mentioned some technical things but is it is it really the DevOps enable or is it about the containers is it about the micro services all the above what's the key will issue network is important for scale anytime you want to go multi data center or hybrid or you want to secure your applications you got to have an advanced networking solution or an SDN solution what's driving that scale you know we approach private cloud a few years back we had the stack we were putting it together we got nice production pilots up in the customers and then we found that a lot of the applications weren't built to consume the flexibility and the scale out that we delivered with that private cloud so these enterprises are going back and they've got new applications that are coming on that are micro services oriented architectures cloud native applications and they can consume this architecture and they're starting to it's not just IOT it's lots of applications that are relooking at how to take advantage of this infrastructure it's being built and that spreads across multiple data centers and part of the hybrid cloud which is why solid networking solutions important it's absolutely critical have good networking let's get to the DevOps question I'll see the big process workloads one of the things you guys have talked about in your announcements morning was obviously workload management having the ability of flexibility by poseable infrastructure yadda yadda yeah I got it Michael you that you're developing this stuff and the thing that Dave and I here and Wikibon community from customers is make it easier for me the total cost of ownership is out of control it's super hard to do this how does this get easier how are people managing through the complexity to make it simpler and how are they managing the total cost of ownership keeley on so that's just why it's important for us because we come in and we have a lot of great networking technology but people are not going to consume that networking technology in and of themselves they need a integrated complete stack that's supported installs quickly and as an orchestration layer on top that's going to allow it to scale the staples an example this I just say annealing what specifically about helium makes it simpler lower costs so when you look at healing on one great tool set they built together is an installer tool set and so there's nice scripting that's going to take when you look at a cloud you've got OpenStack components you've got your Cloud Foundry components you got your networking components storage components and to have all of that stuff install and deploy seamlessly and scale out as demand is required that doesn't come off the shelf if you're going to self integrate some of these open source projects so that the support and service that's added with helium and then if you look at the sea a slate layer on top to manage all the components and integrate in with some of the public clouds that's what takes the technology stack from being a great set of standards and a great set of open-source products that can now be consumed well dude some installation was the biggest barrier openstax had for a long time now how complex it was to install it scale right so i think that the contract and it takes it from a stack of technology to something that actually solves a business so that business problem is IT labor right right that's right non differentiated provisioning or patching or talk about the shift that's going on within that sort of labor pool from stuff that gives you no competitive advantage out to where we are today or where we're headed we used to go into proof of concepts and the customer would one or two types they either have an OpenStack expert in there someone who had lived and breathe it and was part of the original community and they would work with us to get the initial stack up and running a guy a guy or we would have to bring that guy to the table and they get somebody that was trying to be that person we'd help them stand up OpenStack at the same time we'd go in with nuage we knew that wasn't going to work so that's when we started partnering strongly with partners like healing on who can come in and make that work for the enterprise and if you're in a CIOs position you don't want to be dependent on one or two OpenStack experts that you've got to make sure stay or you gotta hire an army of OpenStack engineers what you want is a private cloud that works in a trusted partner to deliver it for you but you want the openness and the standards-based attributes of a product like Helion so you can plug other pieces of the environment in so that's it's really important Dave just you know the average the average customer that we have today has one engineer for every 240 virtual machines with helium staccato 40 which were rolling out has we believe we can get that to 12 500 and that's because you've got a universal control plane where you've got a single pane of glass basically across all the clouds but as your AWS openstack-based clouds maybe even some vmware stack clouds as well and and you could through one see the workloads deploy them that's how you really get a continuous delivery pipeline going it's api's for developers but a single pane of glass for IT and scale what's key it's working now so it brought up VMware VMware killer when you mention it so I'll bring up the VMware question so back in the day VMware ecosystem was really robust yeah some are saying it's on the decline will see that what's the update our vmworld the cube will be there again this year but they made for every one of their partners they made ten dollars for every dollar VMware book so they threw up a lot of cash which is great but the ecosystem you know feeds the feeds that feeds the beast if you will how are you guys Bobby doing that with your partners and now do you see docker for instance enabling things like that and how does that all you have to do some sort of economic advantage for your partners can you share some insight into what you got yeah yeah yeah so in addition to you know that the terms around helping it be attractive to skill up and and transfer our partners transforming as well most of them in resellers you know they want to climb the stack now they would be more relevant to their customers the skilling up does have come with cost and one of the big things we're doing is working on go to market with them actually bringing them bringing them opportunities bringing them in the deals in the case of like with with with Nokia right the ability to to go in with them work on accounts together these are major really large significant IT transformations with our other partners as well skilling them up getting bringing them away wrapping services around their monetization services wrappers yeah they're actually building hostess back up as a service other kinds of service offerings that they build and run themselves that we will actually sell to our go-to-market channels or they'll deploy on site that you know most of our business you know seventy percent goes through the channel right was there a number can you share a number ten dollars I don't have the number by the number how do stuff how does the ecosystem build around and how they make money with helion's the services is that the apps we deploy we sell software licenses so as Helion scales out we get more workloads on the system then we're going to sell more software licenses but the ecosystem is critical for us because when you're talking about building a private cloud and you're talking about building an open private cloud which is getting away from the vendor lock that exists today which is why people are driving to some of these open source products it means that a lot of products have to come together and work well together and so it usually it's the it's the OpenStack distribution that's that's like healing on that's leading that ecosystem we're a part of that and then we get interaction with a lot of other components as a part of that ecosystem that helps build an end solution to the customer we have 360 now cloud builder partners we had 30 18 months ago will have 3018 more months right we're transforming them and they're building new businesses hire marketing services and grow in their bodies how do you see the CSC Spinco whatever we're going to call that affecting is you had basically a built-in consumer right of you know your stuff there one of the Cantonian area's biggest customers right how will that shake out you think and of course CS he has a strong relationship with AWS that's goodness but yeah yeah I think I think it's about focuses meg always says writes about it's about having companies i can really focus on their best thing right so you know we have a growth high growth a growth company focus on software and hardware and infrastucture and services I think outsourcing they're coming together with CSC they're building a be a big partner of ours but we're also part with Accenture and others as well so I think it's hella everybody to be the best of what they do we'll have relationships contractual and partnership relationships but it will allow maybe a bit more complete competition probably very very healthy you feel Alfie with the sis the big power s eyes you guys in good shape with those guys yeah in Price Waterhouse Coopers just received a partner of the year for cloud they're here in a big way accenture is here yeah I think they're they're big as well but you know our enterprise services and and they're here in a big way too and I think that will continue some of the influences out there last question wants to know about the update on equal lyptus AWS that relation down can give an update yeah so our strategy is to partner with public cloud providers many of them eucalyptus has a great story you know where obviously you go to reinvent or a big part of that you know I think there will be you'll see more to come on the public cloud partnership partnership face but will be at reinvent no to the cube watch a movie at dr. Khan as well coming up very quickly I think next week or the week after thank you okay let me avenge coming up guys thanks so much appreciate it thanks for spending the time yeah thank you i'll be Patrick Michael Loomis here on the cube this is a cube we'll be right back after this short break

live from the sands convention center las vegas nevada extracting a signal from the noise it's the cube covering HP discover 2015 brought to you by HP and now your host dave vellante welcome back to HP discover everybody this is dave vellante check out HP discovered on social for all the social streams the video the content the special access patrick osborne is here from HP cube alum and he's joined by Bill Walker of 20th Century Fox gents welcome to the cube good thank you yeah thanks for having us discovering another discover a little different this year Patrick we got Meg talking about business outcomes and absolutely uber and their yeah all the kinds of some shit models are very different I mean obviously you come out here every year for the past number of years and you know it's all about the technology i'm always wowed by the broad you know portfolio that we have but really at the end of the day I think some of the messaging to the customers is you know we're here to help you solve your problems and parts of that is technology part of its services so this hot sort of new high-level messaging around transformation and helping people achieve these business outcomes I think it's a good fresh start yes so bill your business going through some interesting transformations yes today to talk about the high level the drivers in your business the yet new competitors you got you got huge opportunities to go into this digital transformation you've sort of early on in that so maybe talk about some of the drivers in your business sure absolutely I think for us you know you really hit the nail on the head in the sense that it's really been about the physical to digital transformation that the industry is you know kind of going through and also Fox is and you know on the infrastructure side and the IT side we're trying to support that you know as best we can and you know the name of the game lately has been speed to market right so we partnered very tightly with HP on not only the hardware but the software side in you know building out kind of a brand new digital supply chain environment in Las Vegas actually right here and one of our major data centers where we deliver all of our digital content to all of our providers so EST VOD providers like amazon and itunes as well as you know major broadcasters so you've got a facility out here that is essentially your your cloud yes yes we do that that's our primary place where we deliver everything out of its it's great we're using all HP hardware and software there so we're customers across the board in the sense that we have blades we've got three par we're using store once as well as the HP software stack like cloud system on top of that that part is part of a super nap yes yes so yeah we we're facility we're in super net we love it it's a great facility we moved there like a little over two years ago and it's it's been awesome experience that made it into the any of the movies no it must hey I know well they it's impressive on the outside and the inside right yeah was it the old member the robocop oh yeah they have that storagetek tape library way magnet yeah they were great at four days these impressive data centers look amazing so so talk a little bit more about the you called it the digital supply chain that's a powerful concept what's behind that yeah so you know we we've obviously been in the physical supply chain business for a while on the home entertainment side so thank DVDs you know blu-rays that kind of thing but as we transition from people buying physical media to digital media a lot of the workflows and you know the supply chain aspect of it is still there but now we're talking digital and not physical so one of the things we've done at Fox is we've you know we've created what we call our digital supply chain so you've got you know they not only you know things like content delivery in there but you've got you know watermarking you know all the all the hallmarks of what you would need in a in a digital environment to deliver that customer you know quality product from end to end and protect your IP yeah exactly where T is a big one so we'll talk about more about security data maybe there's a general topic and then let's go to dig deeper every good for sure I mean security is obviously one of our big drivers I mean obviously with everything that's been in the news lately we're no different in the sense that we take it very very seriously you know on the data protection front like I said we're big store wants customers we love the product we're using it heavily in our in our data center to protect our content as well as our data so how much time let's unpack that a little bit what's it what's it look like laughs so you said a bunch of different you know HP products can you can you help us to understand how much you know storage kind of servers what kind of apps paint a picture of your your infrastructure for sure so we've got you know a lot actually several racks of gear 3par like I said we're big three part customers so we have several racks a three part that we're using kind of across the board a lot on the database side you know and heiio scenarios storeonce is kind of that underpinning piece that everything funnels back to that provides you know data deduplication backup archival that kind of thing okay so can we talk more about sort of your objectives of protecting data I mean obviously don't lose it but there's you know time to recover there's data loss how are you approaching that yep so we we've got you know our primary facility at switch as well as a dr facility off-site we're using store once we r you know we've got them in both places we're doing replication both ways to ensure you know if we were to have a vent at one facility or we didn't have data available we can quickly recover from the other you know rtly is it's been a great success for us because we've moved from tape-based you know back up and i really didn't mention that but you know where we came from you know two two and a half years ago you know from our LA and chandler data centers we have very very heavy investment in tape infrastructure and one of the things we into decided when we went to this new you know environment in Las Vegas is we wanted it to be completely tapeless you know to be flexible right in that environment and you know we pick store once we went all disk-based and you know RTO wise is fantastic because you know as opposed to tape if you have an event if you happen to not have the tape on site your RT 0 is dictated you know kind of by when you can get the tape back with the exit yes yes fast as you can get here right with the store once though it's just there we can we can you know bring it back in minutes and in fact we actually had a kind of not funny but but interesting incident happened early on where you know we kind of had an hoops incident where somebody deleted a vm and you know with store once we already had it had it there we were able to recover it in minutes and have it working again which is not something we were able to do in in previous iteration so it's really RTO is your primary supposed to RP oh yeah and Patrick I'm sure you see it all over the board with with customers right i mean yeah absolutely i mean it is the whole environment is based on this digital content that it's the lifeblood of you know what they're doing as a business and what they're delivering you know to your customers so that what we're seeing in the data protection standpoint is that more apps are mission critical right they're moving from business-critical the mission-critical the RTOS and our feos are definitely more aggressive you know month by month quarter-by-quarter people are moving from days two hours to minutes and we want to have more they won't have access to more data that's near line and online for so you can basically restore that right away so we're seeing people architecting solutions for store ones where they'd want a couple weeks maybe a couple months of data stored on that from a vaca perspective now we're talking having conversations about three to five years seven years 10 years right so definitely a paradigm shift in terms of data protection and the clouds change that a lot absolutely how so talk about that I think you know because the cloud there's not really a concept of tape per se I mean I know you know some providers have a delayed you know a kind of recovery type mechanism but I think in general people are assuming you've got the data on disk or you know available somewhere and you're able to recall it right and you know almost any cloud provider I think today is structured that way and has some kind of object storage where you can back up to but it's an online situation right and I think that's kind of become the new the new standard for the expectation of you know it's dumping it into an object store an able to recover from that yeah i like to say backup is one thing recoveries everything so there's a software component that that's the good that and what about tape you using I mean you must be used tape in your business right we do still have tape but I think where it makes sense we're trying to get rid of it you know we obviously there's a lot of physical nature with tape you know for us it's also manpower you have to have you know it's a lot of manpower involved in just managing tape and whatnot so where we can especially strategically in our data centers we're trying to get out out of using tape and using you know just a long-term archiving long-term retention with your digital assets obviously you would take for that we definitely have scenarios at the studio where it's still used for sure yeah but not obviously not for backup no yeah yeah I think you know with my team we're starting to think of the the notion of backup maybe in the traditional sense it's kind of going away because I think what people think of backup they think tape they think these scenarios and I think it's you know it's changing to more of a you know having having various generations on disk so you have the concept of you know okay being able to go back in time but near real-time recovery a time machine for the enterprise yeah yeah we talk when we talk to customers it's usually around the areas of application data protection or a service data protection and then long term preservation of assets as opposed to backup and archive right so there because they have a very different business processes around them and you can apply different technologies to the two of them so in some some technologies are appropriate for one some are appropriate for the others so we're you know we're seeing a lot of customers really focus on day one of how I'm going to protect that data how I'm going to make data protection an automatic part of the infrastructure so I don't have to have separate backup team and separate you know specific processes this whole area of things being sort of automatically protected as part of the infrastructure is it's definitely worth a lot but I think that's a really important point to make data protection has historically been a bolt on right uh we got to protect the data yep and so you're saying that you're finally seeing customers integrate data protection as part of the fundamental solution absolutely the two things so the two things that now I'm seeing it from a fundamental part of the initial solution bill that is data protections built in right so you're seeing the techniques of snapshot and replication being melded with you know backup techniques like policy management indexing and all that kind of stuff right and then the other sort of conversation we're having with people who put infrastructure in place is how am I going to get off this in five years five to seven years right so because the amount the size of the data sets are becoming so big that replicating data data migrations migrating your backup data are there they're difficult the difficult task so people are doing a lot more planning ahead to understand how am I going to protect this data now right from a different set of scenarios and how am I going to start do some hardware lifecycle management from an infrastructure standpoint underneath that data as I go into the future are you a data protector customer what do you use not not currently although we are you know we are looking at it for sure yeah today we're actually net back up yeah yeah okay I mean it's a lot of ways to skin that kappa yeah that's still not in your group is it nope nice meg just make it but they have a saying this for a decade the data protect there should be a part of the storage solution I mean it's anyway we work with them every day fantastic I got a tight relationship yeah yeah I'm still get paid for it do get paid for it that's good okay well that's a start yeah yeah awesome alright let's see what else uh what's going on the show this year with you Oh lots of stuff of the show so obviously you you heard about flash right yeah we've heard a lot of flashes fam yeah it's great mokin fast yeah so there's a in it's funny there's a lot of implications to flash even on data protection right so this is a big area for us obviously is huge in the market the media and the speed in what flash brings to the table allows you to do some different things from Dave protection standpoint as well right so this concept of copy data management you've heard this in terms of now i can take copies of databases copies of data sets serve them up to uat test development environment so you know your speed of development by having access to copies of that you know of that original production data set is being enabled by media like flash no flash you can do lots of random i/o you can with with modern architectures like three par for example it's multi-tenant right you have quality of service on there so now we're in the past you'd have to clone a number of data sets copy them off restore them from backups for the purposes of having a you know a test data set now you can run all that on the same infrastructure so flash is great from a performance standpoint for you know speeding up your transactions feeding of your database your workflow but there's a lot of other things that allows us to do to help the overall speed of development which is kind of cool so the copy data management things interesting I mean yeah so active feos obviously popularizing it Dell fixes another one yeah the problem is they want me to rip out or not use my might reap are snapshots and I love my three parts don't want to put in a whole new infrastructure around it so is there I mean the opportunity you got a catalog in in-store wants maybe I could use that somehow that technology so that's what we're doing right so we're taking these techniques that you've had in traditional backup for years and then things you have on primary storage right snapshots and replication but with the with the advantages of flash now you're able to do a lot more with it and bringing those two techniques together we're doing it with software we're doing it with sort of extensible protocols and SD SDKs on the infrastructure itself so we're not introducing any sort of sand virtualization techniques or you know in line fibre channel you know type of virtualization technology we're allowing you do that as a part of the infrastructure itself so you know we're combining things like three par with Recovery Manager central and store ones to provide those type of experience I think the killer app they're Jews potentially is test dev right i mean if you can take copies that are more current give it to the especially with flash give it to the developers but they're not working on you know n minus three copies absolutely yeah and they're way more productive I know what kind of discussions are you having internal how do you service the developer community are they what kind of pressures are they putting on you bill yeah it's that probably the same things you've heard I mean you know agility speed I know for us you know because we're we're big on the cloud journey right now in terms of delivering you know private cloud services for our customers inside Fox one of the areas where we're actively really striving for is to do you know some deeper integration with some of the dev teams where they've got you know kind of closed loop cycles you know DevOps type cycles that they're developing with you know familiar tooling which you know is in the market that out there the Jenkins etc you know my team we're definitely working on trying to integrate a lot of the automation we're doing around cloud with what they're doing on the test dev site to kind of create a nice you know cohesive whole so you know rather than delivering just a server to them we can deliver an entire in a build environment and tear it down you know build it up and tear down dynamic flames so you mentioned a store once customer talked about RTO being really on the primary metric that you're trying to optimize waiting sir patrick comes out to California you know hits the beach makes a quick sales call writes it off wait what do you want to know from him yeah okay Oh with you that the time so what kind of discussions do you have with with Patrick around where you want to where you want to go what you want out of the product when I roadmap to the club yeah I think one of the things you know we're as I said before you know we're three par and store wants customers and I think we're where we see you know things headed in the future we'd love to see even deeper integration with three par and store once and you know we're actually having a discussion my team before this and one of the things they threw out there like hey why can't we just combine them into one product you know and I know right now they're separate but sure maybe maybe in the near future you know the the notion of having this this external device it's separate from 3par that you're you know moving to you know maybe maybe some of that gets melded together and what does that do for you it minimizes the need to manage another appliance absolutely right so it simplifies your your infrastructure tighter integration yep so better reliability and yeah I mean you know we're like a lot of technology shops in the sense that well we're trying to squeeze you know as much as we can you know with the team that we have in terms of Technology and still deliver a lot of services so you know we're always looking to if we can take two and make it one or you know that kind of scenario for simplification that's what we want to do too and more with less but no so let me ask you a question when you do more with less and you've dropped money to the CFO's bottom line today they carve off the you get a lick off that cone or they say hey they'll nice job here's a little you know we'll take twenty percent of that savings and give it back yeah it's I for us it's just the you know the slap on the back the handshake that we did it what are you seeing without me from our mothers hear from our product portfolio standpoint we're simplifying right we want to have I think we're in a unique position in terms of we want to be the best storage division inside of HP Enterprise right we don't want to be the best storage division standalone right so that affords us a lot of experiences for that we can bring to the customer when you bring in you know the blades and compute and networking and storage I mean what you see up on stage with one view and all of our element managers you know it's it doesn't sound sexy at the end of the day but basically having a same look and feel the same taxonomy that you use for all of our products is like a huge simplification for customers not having to you know learn new you is and why not so we have other competitors who you know they're bringing 7 10 12 you know different architectures for a primary storage the table right we're consolidating that and providing customers that the ability to they can go in a cost optimized software to find you know deployment model you can have appliances that are tuned in high performance same look and feel same CLI same utilities same data services so we want choice but it has to be simple because too much so what do you think about that whole software-defined mean is that the future is it this Patrick sort of implying sort of the the lower-cost sort of software only model what do you guys say yeah well we're big believers in software to find you know like I said we're we're kind of in it on you know on the whole stack in the sense that we know not only a part where we have software with HP we're also doing a lot with the team around Helion OpenStack right now and you know one of the big bets we're making is we think openstax going to be big we you know I know internally when we've talked with you know a lot of the development teams the idea of API defined infrastructure that's more malleable is tremendously exciting so what are you in with OpenStack well so right now we're actually we're kind of in that you know early stage entire ya des you know trying to trying to get a feel for it cuz you know one of the things I always say you know right now with OpenStack is it's kind of a two-way street you know there's the infrastructure part of it that my team has to deliver but the the other side of it is really the developers you know getting their hands around it getting a feel for it you know maybe even doing some platform-as-a-service with Cloud Foundry you know that kind of thing and they're really developing for that platform and getting the most out of it because you know in a lot of cases you know you're coming from a traditional environment where you know you had physical servers you put virtualization on top of it everybody's kind of used to that maybe a single VM kind of scenario but when you move to something like OpenStack you kind of got to rethink how you approach application building just think all right gents we're out of time going to leave it there but Patrick last last word for you why HP why HP I think we've got some exciting times ahead of us this year right so unlocking some velocity and value for for everyone with HP Enterprise kind of like just to echo what I said before about you know we're a portfolio company that brings a lot of technology services to our customers and at the end of the day my bet is that standalone companies that focus on one thing like storage or one thing like network or specifically compute I don't see a path forward for that over time right customers are buying solutions and systems and converged art you know infrastructure how you see this you know hyper converge theme right HP is one of the few companies that can bring all those elements to our customers as part of the equation so that for me that's why I stay here and why we've got such a great technology path forward yeah the 80s and 90s are about disintegration of IT and creating those silos and now we're seeing the reintegration so Patrick a bill thanks very much for coming on the cube absolutely thank you so much to have you guys here all right all right keep it right to everybody will be back with our next guest right after this short break you

okay welcome back day two of the cube here and Las Vegas for live this is looking angles exclusive coverage of Amazon Web Services reinvent I'm John furrier with Dave vellante co-host of the cube Dave we got our first segment here we're pleased to have Jerry chin new venture capitalist cloud guru was at VMware it's been in the enterprise for a while guys welcome welcome to the cube Jay to kick off here at amazon reinvent Jerry welcome back decided Amy thanks for having guys cube alumni how was Hong Kong you just back from I'm stack I think Hong Kong was great my my body and time clocks someplace our Pacific though so I don't know them jet lag but thank God in Vegas I never need to leave the building so I don't need to know what time is on my mom actually in so it's good to be here so Amazon's pushing the cloud hard obviously they are the cloud huge market share on infrastructure as a service check the boxes there they got like thirty six percent by are not I think it's much higher than that actually her but jesse was saying today well I mean by vechs the next 14 it's got to be higher than thirty six percent I think it's closer to seven but ok that's infrastructure service but the actions platform as a service and SAS yeah if you can I got to get your take on guys we're following OpenStack you were just in Hong Kong you got amazon public cloud you get OpenStack coming up you know as that horse those a two-horse race right now clouds Dax out there but really it's OpenStack is like the enterprise hope it's the great hope for the enterprise with Amazon kind of rolling rolling out massive services what's your take on the two and and and is it a two-horse race and what's what's what's the what's the difference between the two you know I don't think it's a it's a two horse race yet but Amazon is quickly becoming the marker soph monopoly of the public cloud at the rate they're going and and it there have the size and scale that pretty soon to be really hard to compete and I think only google and maybe Marcus off and the public cloud space can really compete but if you take a step back and look at you know to your question OpenStack versus amazon I was in Hong Kong last week the OpenStack design summit and openstax philosophies one be all things to all people right it's open source multiple projects Amazon's philosophy is they want to be one cloud all people so you saw their announcements today around enterprise use cases desktop use cases startup use cases me to use cases there won't be one cloud to all people so it is not the race isn't over yet but very different philosophies right now between the two different cams was there much to talk about incorporating amazon api's into the whole OpenStack framework you know six months ago you heard a lot about that we had a crowd chatter on that run what was the the buzz there you know I I'll be honest into to the point that you guys brought up early around the Amazon ap is almost are becoming a lingua franca for infrastructure of a service but quite frankly debating whatnot they're the right api's or not isn't I think where the actions and the actions add to the point you made around pass and other developer services so the actual API so you do the api's right should be pretty easy for developers to adopt you just create really great developer service around it database services storage services security services those are what developers really care about so I feel like we have you know sometimes called cloud plus there are infrastructure service plus and you got sass minus you know it's like what you have with Salesforce do you feel like we really need that pass layer does that just sort of bifurcate into one of those two there's there's a there's a school of thought that says the world goes into two worlds a long telus a sax so there's an app for everything in which case you have SAS or SATA minus and then you know infrastructure private cloud for a budget likes the apps there's no middle ground for pass you know I'm more towards the middle ground because in a world where we have multiple SAS providers in multiple clouds I believe you're going to have multiple SAS multiple clouds you're going to need to integrate and stitch together a mash-up of applications right you have work day for HCM Salesforce for crm applications your own custom website running on amazon there are three different kinds now servers now how are you connect the data are going to move data around there's going to be at least some kind of past layer integration layer or cloud layer that needs to help stitch together this multi-cloud world so you like the pivotal play a pill I think the concept Indian concept right I think Paul is is a pulse of visionary and bus my friends to work there their announcement yes sir was was I think a step in the right direction that they're planning a flag saying that there has to be something beyond amazon there has to be a relevant private cloud initiative be it VMware or OpenStack of someplace else and let's create some services around it and the angle are taking around data and data services i think is proud of the right the right bed because all these new applications will need these data services to be relevant we were talking about pivotal yesterday one of the things that we were critical on and but also hopeful as you pointed out it's early right so true pivotal a mulligan or a pass if you will is this early and it's really a new company if you think about a 1,600 employees but new but it's window dressing announcement it really wasn't really i mean so the same logos i mean come on that they're trying to overhype and that's that was that's what people are talking about saying hey guys just be honest and say we're working as fast as i can because amazon is not going to break the enterprise right away I mean they also have a longer road going hard at the enterprise so they are going after IBM we must saw in the keynote that called out IBM specifically around some of the advertising there on the show yeah so Amazon is clearly trying to knock on the door or the enterprise so the question we are asking and talking about is how much time is it till they proliferate the enterprise I mean they're in there now toe in the water little beachhead still not enterprise-ready in the ends of the SLA s and the demands or does it matter so what's your take how much time is really on the radar for Amazon when will the clock be expiring for the IBM's HP pivotal's in terms of retooling so I think the evolution around enterprise public cloud like Amazon would take three potential paths so path one around amazon amazon invests enough engineering and product talent to make their cloud enterprise friendly privacy security reliability and they're they're hiring a bunch of folks a bunch of folks my old place vmware try to do that that's path one path to is you see a category of startups out there trying to meet amazon more cloud and enterprise friendly security privacy reliability right so that's path to and as a Greylock a venture capitalist we're investing a bunch of companies trying to you make that happen or past three is developers out there I'm engineer around the weaknesses amazon so the new Amazon is an enterprise friendly they know and about Amazon's got a bunch of weakness around security and privacy and he's just right there application around those weaknesses so I think those are the three evolutionary path paths I think it's a race to see who wins right one two or three yeah there's no doubt that Amazon is forcing the hand of the big guys he's seeing that clearly we have a question on our crowd check go to crowd chatting at / reinvent we've got a live live crowd-sourced thought leader chat there all those to Twitter and LinkedIn pendulum will you sign in but the question Jerry to you is how our cloud providers catering to provide low latency access to developing markets like India Indonesia Philippines etc you know given that the Hurricanes just destroyed all the infrastructure considering there's huge potential explosive internet growth so given that those new emerging markets are essentially refreshing their infrastructure what is the the cloud providers take on the end you do you work in that area what you're giving the opinion on what's going on in those areas sure I mean I think that the world is looking at two or three different clouds you say there's a u.s. dominated cloud maybe a China dominate cloud and rest of the world right generally a lot of analyst kind of segment the world in three major pockets when you think about developing markets or other geographies like Asia South Asia or South America huge markets lot of developers all applications it's the reason why I think there's only a handful of providers that can have the scoop in the reeds to reach globally I think Equinix Rackspace on Google Marcus off or all global footprint players everyone else I think you're going to look at a Federation of multiple players so every region has a local telco cloud provider it could be like an entity or rakuten in Japan it could be a sink tell in Singapore South East Asia so I think you're going to see a global brand around like Amazon or or VMware and VMware trying to franchise our own cloud or Microsoft and then I would see partnerships working between the different geographies and maybe OpenStack is that partnership maybe amazon API is the way different class communicate its remains to be seen what that interface between the different gos look like in the future what do you see as IBM's role I mean first of all do they have the global scale are you sort of purposefully leaving them out or just forget about them and just don't feel like they can compete on that global scale what do you see is their role in OpenStack so um bunch of questions there IBM didn't mean to leave them out there are definitely relevant especially for the large enterprises so I think you're seeing enterprise adoption come from large startups or small starts growing up in the cloud as well as large enterprises that are looking to modernize your applications and I think IBM has a great role to play from kind of that top-down approach I think IBM between a combination of a soft layers which is their their acquired cloud provider combined with their global services and their consulting business will be really relevant to large enterprises my mind so talk about the Amazon enterprise marchi obviously they're talking about cloud trails which is kind of like a monitoring service compliance oriented and I'll see vbi so you you've been close to the vdi movement so that's those are I started VDI hearted the beady eye movement so you know being there what is your take on that because that's very enterprising and that's rude good for business I'm what sir what's their chances there well I think so first on the vdi market we started that at VMware at 05 06 we coined the term VDI and I think it's a great service for large enterprises than need secure mass desktops I think I would love to see in a VDI service from VMware in Amazon five six seven years ago because now video i think is part of a larger solution it's it's it's significant but not enough right he's now enterprise to care about their madness desktops like VDI but my ipad devices iOS devices Android devices they really want kind of a holistically managed desktop or workspace environment so if i were amazon i would expand beyond windows and two other you know operating systems to manage like android and iOS but that's other serious about you know managing enterprise workspaces do they have do they have advantage and you're in your opinion despite the fact that they're so late to market do they have an advantage in that and I mean in essence they are starting around mobile developers aren't they whereas when you started that was especially a consideration Wright and Citrix sort of found its way there right but I think between um amazon I think Google's in a great position because they own so much of the Android stack right if they want to create an enterprise friendly manage um Android environment for Chromebooks Android devices they can start creating a bunch of great developer services like magic google drive but secured on on kind of a google cloud or something like that that could be pretty compelling I don't know if they're going there i think dropbox has a great opportunity kind of be that back and platform obviously Greylock investment but dropbox has a huge opportunity to be that kind of manage secure servers across mobile devices and desktop devices it's all a sudden the one overarching fact you have between Windows iOS and Android is your data and drop boxes on all three platforms chair we got to get rolling and we got in our next guest but I want to ask you actually talk about what you're investing in at greylock rate locked here 1dc you guys have done amazing deals I mean just recently in the past decade Greylock has emerged from just a tier 1 BC to a mega success good investments and if you're on the enterprise team they're actually the consumer side kick ass what's going on for you guys what are you investing in what are you looking at and if price is not an easy game to invest in obviously it's hard but what are you guys doing what are you investing what are you looking for I'm thinking about looking at across the categories most relevant for this audience is I'm really interested looking at startups that can either a make amazon a more enterprise funding cloud or be startups that will pose alternative or challenge to amazon in the enterprise cloud space and you do that either by you know focus on enterprise requirements or focus on enterprise services like data storage security that matter enterprises focus on doing that really really well better than vmware better than Microsoft there in the Amazon I think in the build a really big enterprise cloud business around those technology services you're essentially betting on that transformation from the way the world is the cloud is post of the world known as buying servers they're all trying to find a lab partner that's the direction and and are you bullish on this integrated stack offering obviously DevOps has been a big success you see Facebook you see Google you see Amazon building their own gear they were kind of saying we're not playing an open compute but sure that aside DevOps is a software model absolutely and so the integrated stack which are common on integrated stack and how that's going to involve for both the mainstream of DevOps absolutely so you see this DevOps culture permeating first development of applications now how you manage your infrastructure so you look at what's happened with open compute and open source switches which I think open compute project announced a couple days ago you're seeing that kind of DevOps culture and how they manage and update their applications / minate storage compute and now networking that's going to be kind of a common adoption curve throughout the cloud so the way DevOps technologies are getting adopted from languages to frameworks of databases is the same way we're seeing storage compute and networking technologies get adopted in this next cloud wave what's your take on the iphone for the enterprise amazon cloud kind of metaphor and OpenStack being more the Android we were talking earlier right just get your thoughts there an OpenStack also has a lot of legs right now but it's very open iPhone model or Amazon is kind of closed or some say lock in alright but it still apps are not closed right so the metaphor the metaphor was you know iphone is to Amazon as Android is to OpenStack and I think at a high level that kind of makes sense but not really because there's no Google behind OpenStack like there's a google behind Android so I think Rackspace is was an early leader and still as a leader in the OpenStack space but there's also red hat there's a bunch of the players there so as a result there's no single entity kind of driving OpenStack like Google's driving Android so that analogy can breaks down and then as far as Apple analogy to Amazon I I think Amazon is a lot more open than the iOS ecosystem is because just the fact that there's no governing board to prove her apps to launch on amazon right I can go stand up on an ec2 instance lost my application use it I don't need wait for this there's not a 20-page approval process so knowingly directionally that's more correct than not but it's analogy breaks down when you really get into it and OpenStack your prospects roman sec what's your what's your outlook on OpenStack real quick I think OpenStack so holistically i think is great a more bullets than sort of sub projects that i am overall I think they keep launching new projects some are better than others the core processing around compute and storage and this um API management I'm bullish on I'm supposed to be bullish on what they're doing around containers like docker and core OS and kind of adopting this next generation of cloud platforms well we got to go we got some fans out there want to hear what your take on VDI so go tweet to at jerry chen j ER are wide CH en we got a break here we'd love to have you on a little longer we got our next guest coming on it's the cube live in Las Vegas day two of Amazon's reinvent changing the cloud game and the enterprise and we get all the detailed coverage here on the key we'll be right back after this short break the cute

okay we're back here at Dell world 2012 this is an austin texas dell second year this is SiliconANGLE calms the cube our flagship program about the events extracted suit from the noise day to have been day one yesterday all day interviews getting all the action digging deep into del exciting transformation for Dell I would see not standing still Michael Dell's on the cube yesterday talking with us candidly about his long-term vision and investing in the future and that we're going to explore all that today about this transmissions new modern era you know we think we were the first to kind of report on that on SiliconANGLE Wikibon and it's here it's happening it's building out its transformation in a whole new way changing IT changing the world so it's exciting I'm John furry the founders SiliconANGLE come and join my co-host I'm Dave vellante Wikibon or go there check out all the free research and we just laid out some stuff on software lead infrastructure just in analysis today just hit the site on dell's shift from component and device manufacturer to really software lead and services so check that out we're here with Dante Orsini who was a senior vice president of Island rock and cloud maker and cloud provider Yankee fan they say that rivère is going to be ready for opening day which is bad news for us Red Sox fans but Dante welcome back to the cube thank you can you see you again yeah are you a Jets fan actually Giants fans right okay well that's good yeah but I live in Dallas picture right nice yeah okay so I lands a winner man you guys are doing great infrastructure as a service and been growing and really doing well you got a great partnership with dell so give us an update yeah so lots of exciting stuff going on I mean you know we've really the last couple years we focus more on self-service infrastructure we've done a lot of work with VMware you mentioned software-defined data center you know we've done a lot of work there as well it's interesting you know today we talked about on stage about dell's active system and for a company like island you know we've always been always been very customer focused but we've really led a lot of different innovation right so to stay on that forefront and to continue to listen to customers and take you there needs and orchestrate that into a solution and delivered as a service you know you start to do that at scale gets complex right so we noticed that we're growing really rapidly but we could be doing a lot better job in certain areas and Dells really helped us out there because if you could imagine growing across seven datacenters North America and Europe we've got a lot of engineering talent but to scale we'd really stretch that talent and we don't want these guys you know living in the data center planning these do data center deployments in scaling them out so you know moving to more of a converged infrastructure is a big I mean we had Kim Stephenson on just before your segment she's a CIO at Intel she's awesome she's in a dynamic she's wonderful but she's in jail they push the envelope and I asked her one question you know this new modern era what are the table stakes the cios have a lot of legacy they were messages don't protect the legacy but protect the future which is a great message and that really is legit in my mind but you got a deal to legacy and she said you put a freeze on it and then go invent the new but I asked her what are the table stakes she said God a cloud is definitely real you've got to be this to share with us let's expand on that what do you think that means what does table stakes mean being plowed ready and she was saying here last year my okay cloud but this year must have you got to have that ready yeah no great point I mean we've seen it I mean we've been doing this since 2007 right so in the beginning it was follow us right here's the direction and now there's this big sediment change last 18 months I mean let's face it CIOs in the past very focused on as you said you know the core infrastructure and not really is open to cloud but in last 18 months that's changed dramatically so we're seeing a lot of companies that are actually taking a hard look at their actual infrastructure internally and also looking for ways that they can augment that you know in a lot of this is being driven from the other side of the house right let's face it i t is really focused on making sure that you can you maintain availability and maintain security but that doesn't always fair well for people that are application you know driven right so people are driven by raja that have to really get new things to market our timeline driven and we've seen that there's been some disparity between those teams those ones are really adopting cloud right because if they have to wait on traditional procurement 19 provisioning and compliance everything else you know sometimes it gets burdensome so at some point someone says you know what I'm going to look outside the organization that creates a real challenge for internal I team so with VMware Adele we've been able to basically bring these two sides together to make sure that as organizations continually focused internally to deliver more of a self-service model for themselves that they're still going to need some way to augment that infrastructure and to get new things to market and oftentimes that's we're going to look outside so the beginning of larger mid-market enterprise companies they're really looking at us to be able to provide excess capacity for things like development testing also we see a huge opportunity with field labs frankly because a lot of companies that are taking software and applications to market they not only need to develop the software test the software but they need to be able to train their internal folks their external partners and to be able to take something that's para virtualized if you will right so imagine nesting VMware so mad you've got this beat cloud front end and rather than just deploying you know regular OS templates you start climbing the stack and say okay what if we wanted to demonstrate you a dynamic lab environment that was running ESX for instance so what if we brought up in esxi 5 cluster and we also had active directory and we integrated something like VMware views we could present a desktop and then if we had a virtual storage array we can encapsulate the whole thing now rather than just bringing up an OS template now I just execute this one V app that has all these components and that's wearing virtually on top of their talk about what that means I mean let's just break that down and you just know when deep there for a minute Wendy yeah yes all right Rancic no no don't be sorry first of all don't be sorry that's the key and we love that so yeah this is this is like tech stop for us so so but let's translate that into what that means our value sure in the old way what was the picture what did that picture look like you know what was a mess involved in that and because that is real agility yep different service levels behind that is better value but to do all that in the old way just pray down what would have come in Dale yep great great question so imagine if you had to support an event like this and you have hands-on labs right think of the amount of infrastructure that has to be brought to site right and you're actually in the old ways you really didn't have a mechanism to make that self-service it was a lot of guys working really hard not just on the infrastructure stack but actually how are they going to present this stuff right and you see people get creative you know try to basically create a whole bottle logins and kind of make it round robin the we're okay I know it got say five labs I want to know train people on but I'm going to be able to support maybe ten of those at a time so I have a standard naming convention and then you know people come in and what if they want to you know do something else it and see the problem is you plan for okay we think that these five labs are going to be fantastic and what happens is someone comes out with something Twitter goes crazy right and everyone focuses on that one lab they want to go after right and there's only so many labs to go around well in in this type of environment first of all you don't have the ship nique it right all this stuff can be done virtually and you can instantiate an entire lab you can create multiple labs with different subjects and just instantiate as you need them right Kalamazoo nita as you want to you know expire them so we're seeing that that's also happening more and not just a huge event like this but think of software companies that want to be able to touch a labor issue too and it's a hassle so ops labor build it up tear it down or build it up and deal with the power is shoots right well right it's like yeah I mean basically it's a night so on a scale of one to ten ten being a total hassle what is your way change what so how would you rate the scorecard it's it's by polar opposite right to imagine creating something one time and be able to instantiate it over and over not have to deal with shipping anything right and the whole thing being self service you know those types of use cases go beyond like I said just a big event I mean think about go-to-market strategy right so what if I had the ability to actually take my sales force and make sure they had an account so they can engage their customers in a different way so one core is that we've identified here at SiliconANGLE is deep is the moving workloads across clouds yep agnostic hypervisors and that kind of data layer as well how does that all fit into that your your equation you know that's a great question because we are Dave wants to get a question yeah sorry good interview so there's there's a couple things that we're seeing there we've seen companies that you know have actually started because someone in a division found it easier to go to a public cloud company and start to develop something if they develop that in a private environment or more of a proprietary environment by the time I T realizes what's going on they have a mess because it's hard to move right so we've seen that there's organizations that are starting to spawn whether they're delivering themselves as a software as a service type play or whether you know they're actually brute force labor on the backend that are trying to create this you know agnostic area so you can take something from you know am i and move it into ESX or be plowed right and everything in between and you know we think that there's a great opportunity there but at the end of the day you know it really depends on the use case right I mean we see people that are using public cloud infrastructures that if they're looking to sketch no test large-scale environments thousands of virtual machines the variance is way too great because fundamentally the hypervisor does not guarantee performance so you know we tend to work in the mid-market enterprise space with companies that have you know rich VMware based investments and they want to have guaranteed performance but they also want across that chasm to self-service and make things really easy consume okay so you're going after homogeneity that's a fundamental strategy I mean Amazon's got homogeneity that works in that regard a lot of things about Amazon work for the enterprise but right so tell me today I'm hearing homogeneity the other thing I want to ask you is hybrid cloud yeah a lot of people define that a lot of different ways i want to narrow the definition and see if you see any indication that this is happening specifically federating the application very good question I'm seeing very little that so far have not to say that it's not out there right and if you see people are trying to get there but you know we're seeing you really the opportunity here and just to clarify you're talkin bout someone has an application they want to dynamically burst that leverage excess capacity yeah and we're not really seeing a lot of it yet right as opposed to I got some private cloud stuff when I got some apps in the public cloud and that's cool and I've selected those may have looked in my application portfolio and the business value and the risks and I put some in the public and some of the privates a lot of people doing that yeah yeah everybody's doing that well true but i think that the other thing that there's a real opportunity with right now is again going back to the OBM words vision on this we're seeing adoption here because organizations have an investment they have it necessarily and they're starting to adopt nuvid cloud more and more internally right but initially we saw this as an opportunity to help to bridge that gap between the actual infrastructure operations teams and you know the development and application centric teams that needed access the infrastructure so if you think about their strategy how they're bundling all these schemes together now they're making it easier for these companies to consume their software so what we find is that the internal teams are saying okay great we're going to move to five dot one and their focus on that traditional upgrade process but meanwhile they realize that now they have things like vCloud director where they can deliver their own you know internal private cloud that's self-service but it takes time to get there so in the interim they have the ability to look at you know this beat cloud community i land and our peers in this space and they can start to introduce self service to the teams that need it most now the key is through some of these technologies like vcloud connector where we're seeing that the business side say okay great my admins that live and die in administration all day long they have this ability to manage yo through the same pane of glass virtualcenter their local infrastructure as well as the cloud-based infrastructure so that helps this implementation process because we don't have to retrain behavior right so I talked to IT directors and CIOs that's big for them now the other side is that they can have complete control over this this infrastructure and through role-based access control they can basically you know create these different you know applications if you will or catalogs of applications and assign them and track them by virtual data center so it's helping them get there while their work focus on it internally we provide that bridge that allows them to get there today so that's some very good examples in proof points actually that that island is providing upping upping the messaging to sort of cloud in general and the benefits the value proposition that you and John were talking about a lot of companies that you know claim their cloud cloud providers infrastructure as a service specifically use the same messaging now you guys founded in 2007 came out of the shoot so you're new you had this kind of clean sheet of paper advantage yep I want you to talk about specifically how you're different from that crowd you know managed hosting guys that are saying hey we're cloud now too or you know pretty much everybody's got to be cloud so how are you different specifically you have very good questions so we originally started 1995 actually was really focused on colocation and IP services so 2007 we saw the time was right and you know we did a lot of due diligence and we looked at our customer base and we listened to them and that's why we chose to partner with you know expand our relationship with Dell but also partnered with VMware on this so we came to market with a managed virtualization platform was it people weren't throwing cloud around in 2007 right right it wasn't until the last few years that we were moving to more of a self-service model that we were comfortable saying cloud but I think the difference here is that we've had such a long standing relationship in this space not only with our partners but with our customers to understand what the use cases aren't what the needs are to be able to wrap the technology around those needs you know we're calling this customer driven innovation basically so we're going beyond just hey I want to you know get access to a quick server and bring it up you know because our use cases in the beginning we're extremely calm we were managing 80 different data centers across North America and Europe we had people that said look I need access to enterprise infrastructure but I've got compliance requirements where I need to integrate certain types of network I want to do a direct connection to you for compliance and security purposes so we started off the bat not trying to make a simple you know easy self-service front end we focused on what's the requirement and let's wrap a solution around it so that led us down this path of being able to provide a managed infrastructure for those that needed managed but also to provide more of an enterprise-class self-service environment now where I see our areas that we actually differentiate as we've done a tremendous amount of business in disaster recovery a lot of that is because in 2008 you know the financial markets took a nosedive write capital budgets dried up and we went to market not only with VMware and down but other partners and while they were helping their customers virtualize more and more of their infrastructure a lot of those companies realize there were better ways of protecting it is if you go back that far you see a lot of people using your traditional you know either multi-site or the relying on a traditional dr provider where they're consigning physical space right so to be able to work with these customers and define very fluid and dynamic RTO and RPO objectives we've wrapped a lot of unique IP around that to be able to deliver these solutions so that's kind of our launching point into these other areas so I mentioned a little bit about what we're doing from a lab perspective you know that originally started off and collaborating with VMware in del matter of fact you know over a year ago Dell was looking to actually train you know they're one of their divisions internally at an internal solution summit and our CTO got together with some folks at Dell and we were actually architecting this lab for our own purpose and to drive better collaboration with VMware out in the field and ultimately they ended up leveraging that lab environment and we're product heisting that today so pretty interesting stuff no I want to ask you about Amazon janta yes they're getting very aggressive we see them at all these shows now there in order to open world and they had a big presence of course they have the big conference reinvent a couple weeks ago I often criticized Amazon about their SLA s but they said at the at the reinvent conference one of their executives that we've never lost a deal because of SLA s which because I laugh at got kidding me right but nonetheless amazon is a force even though the glacier announcement got a lot of attention they are really you know going after the enterprise so how do you compete with Amazon how do you differentiate obviously SLA s is one loves you talk about that and other factors for their security compliance audits you know location of data talk about Amazon its presence and how you and your ecosystem and partners are competing yeah very very question so you know any time we spoke about amazon i love amazon by the way they're doing a lot of stuff to drive more and more adoption in our space but fundamentally different platforms right so anytime we've worked with you know customers that have had experience with an amazon or some other you know type of hypervisors it's not vmware based yet we often see that there's a lot of things we start peeling back the onion you know it's being able to provide guaranteed performance and high availability that's a fundamental difference right out of the gate and that's one of the reasons why we have such stringent SLA that's why we work with Cubs murray's that have to deal with compliance you know in the vial farm of space the healthcare space financial services you know so the other thing that we see here is that you know amazon does a great job of you know entertaining that side of the business but what we found is that we have customers that have thousands of instances in amazon and one of the challenges they see is that when they go through large scale scale testing environments the variance and performance is too great so the other the other side of this you know imagine you'll try to shoot for a two percent variance on the same workload but you have thousands of them right but imagine that variance being somewhere between eight and fifteen percent depending on what's going on with capacity we're on the opposite of that spectrum you know our customers that work with us in the dev testing arena they need to know that when we provide resources that they are actually going to perform you know the same every single time so totally different options of the spectrum and a lot of people think that you know working in an enterprise-class cloud of a structure is going to be more costly than an Amazon I got to tell you our price seems really aggressive so we've never lost a deal on price to Amazon so the other side is SLA so you touched on that and it's in our business it's critical you know we've got to be able to provide transparency but also we also have to be able to provide people a different type of escalated focuses not just non availability but performance and that's where we're differentiating can you talk about what you look for in partners in jail you know Dell obviously a part never tell you Dell's got its own cloud offerings you know so how do you feel about that what do you look for in partners and you know why Dell yeah great question so Dells always been there for us right so we we were you know leveraging down a prior to moving into this whole you know cloud arena prior to 2007 they've really taken an active interest in our organization to help us grow I mean today we announced a joint offering where Dells storage customers have the ability to actually replicate as a service to I'll and this is going to be sold by dell and this is just a result of working with him out in the field over the last couple years and they wanted a simple way to really provide a secure form of backup and recovery for their customers so we're starting with this extensible platform we've done this for years and right now we're starting with equal logic but there's all sorts of other technologies that snap right in there right so it's been a very unique relationship for us and when they did announce that they were going to cloud it wasn't surprised I mean we knew this was coming right so there's a huge market here and we've actually had a lot of cooperation if you will write together with Dell so I think together we continue to collaborate we're going to always find other way areas that we can innovate and drive unique solutions to market what do you make it the OpenStack movement you know I think openstax unique our CTO is got a lot of good friends that you know have worked on that these good friends with you know Richard from from rackspace and you know I look what Rackspace is doing as I think it's it's great you know again great for the industry i really don't run into them a lot out out in the marketplace but um you know I think I've got a lot of admiration for what they're doing yeah well we've written it's the OpenStack not-ready-for-prime-time but now everybody's hopping on the bandwagon so I'm Steve just joined AMC just joined right right so OpenStack is becoming that developer framework I think it's gonna be you know move from being a marketing gimmick gave too much more hey let's consolidate DevOps and let's get this developer community wrapped around some real meat on the bone relative to you know sdn hace drives that drives that agenda aggressively as does you know some of the cloud trend so awesome stuff yeah good all right on say we listen to how it's a great guest really appreciate you coming on awesome seeing you again and welcome back anytime okay thanks Dave this is the cube our flagship programming right I tracked the signal from the noise we right back with our next guest after this short break